# A complicated, deceit filled story. What now?



## Makingsenseofthis

I could use some help.

I am in my late twenties, working on a professional degree. My wife is too. We have been married for just over *one year*, but were together for five years prior.

Recently I found out she invited a man over to our house. 

I had planned to meet a buddy at a specified time on Sunday to help him out with something and then catch up over dinner. This worked out well, my wife said, because she had a female friend coming over to talk about marriage problems she was having. I was told there would be "waterworks" so be wary about coming home without calling. 

I left around 6:30pm to meet my friend. I arrived back around 9:20 after getting the okay to return. We started watching some TV. I asked about the friend, hoping she was okay. My wife proceeded to tell me the exact story that happened with this woman a year before. I said "that's odd, she is going through the same thing?" My wife clammed up. She was also furtively looking at her phone, which was right in front of me. She then got up and put it in the bedroom. By now I was very nervous and suspicious. I will say I have never once looked at her phone in our entire six years. I pride myself on being trusting. I couldn't help it though, so when my wife went to walk the dog I checked the phone. I found no weird calls. However, I found _many _texts to a man chatting and joking and inviting him over while I was gone, planning on it, talking about it, even saying "hurry up, I'm getting drunk" (my wife had opened a bottle of champagne given to us for our first anniversary right before I left, which I was perplexed by), some texts saying "we are having champagne tonight, is that okay?", then more texts after about 2 hours (the time I assume he was there) joking and flirting. 

When my wife returned I confronted her and asked about this guy. She said "Who?" Then I said, "I looked at your phone." She told me he was no one... we just flirt... As I proceeded to walk out the front door, seething with anger, she said "he pays attention to me." By then I was infuriated. Over the course of the next several hours she gave me stories about how "he was going to come over, but then I changed my mind and called him at the last minute." Remember, there were no calls...

Some days have gone by, most recently I stopped by to talk to her (as I have been staying away) and the story evolved yet again. Now she has admitted he came over but "we didn't do anything, we just watched a movie and at one point he tried to kiss me." For some _strange_ reason, I can't believe that this is the full story. I can't believe anything about this. I am nearly positive they had sex. The bottle of champagne was 4/5 empty and my wife is certainly a lightweight. She also told me he had nothing to drink, despite their exchange...

The constant advice I am hearing is to seek marriage counseling and work through this. Is that the way? She has lied, lied, and lied some more. Not only is my unbending trust now bent beyond recognition, but I have never felt so insulted or alienated in my life. Do I/we try to counsel this away? Or do I just walk away?

Please help me if you have thoughts.


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## Hicks

Who is telling you to seek counseling?
Counseling for an affiar is generally a poor idea.

She 100% definitely had sex with him. No doubt whatsoever.

No kids?? RUN RUN RUN like the wind and get divorced as fast as possible.

If you don't want to listen to this advice, run run run until things start coming out of her mouth that sound like she is sorry, tells you the truth that she had sex with him, is willing to do whatever it takes to reconcile and get you back etcc..... Don't fall for lies.


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## Makingsenseofthis

Yes, no kids at all. That is an important point.

My mother, my stepfather, a mentor, her family, all of them. Even people who generally do not have a good perception of her (as a result of this or other interactions) don't tell me to run. They say "counseling counseling counseling."

I feel that I should run. I feel that I've been betrayed and the fact that she won't admit to sex and so vehemently denies it (kind of like she denied him coming over in the first place...) makes me sick.

I appreciate your advice. It really ties with my own gut feeling. I also know I am hurt and mad, so I am trying not to be too focused on my gut.


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## tom67

Tell her you are going to take her for a polygraph test her reaction should be telling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Squeakr

I would say that you have no kids and she has started this early on in the marriage, it is best to cut your losses and move on. She is gas lighting, trickle truthing, rug sweeping, and blame shifting. She has the entire script going and you are not going to get the full truth. She even used your special bottle of champagne for him. I would guess that there is little left to save. You never said there were even tears. She exhibits little remorse or guilt for her actions and it is never just a kiss. Time to move on. Counseling is recommended for you (IC) to help move on, but I see MC as a waste. These are my $0.02!


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## Squeakr

I would also get copies of the older phone records and check them, as it doesn't seem like this is something that has just started but been going on for some time.


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## Makingsenseofthis

Thank you everyone.

To expand, she has showed some significant remorse. My phone is full of "I'm sorry" and "I hope we can work through this" text messages. When we spoke most recently she was crying the entire time. Sadly, I couldn't tell if this crying rooted from being caught in a lie or genuine remorse. When I stopped by to shower today she was very apologetic and asking if we could work on this.

I think any more investigation into the incident is out of the question. I don't share a phone plan with her and she told me she deleted all other texts with this man because they made her feel gross. That felt like another lie. 

Also, she did admit this was going on for about a month and started briefly after we returned from a vacation celebrating our first anniversary.


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## Hicks

Counseling works great for people who want to fix their marriage.

Once you understand more about cheaters, you will know that they use counseling as a way to pretend they are working on their marriage. The reason to pretend to work on it is so they can keep cake eating. Which means she gets the premise of a marriage, the money, home, holidays with family, no one's mad at her, with all the benefits of an affair (illicit sex).

If my wife had a man to our home for champne and flirting, I would divorce her for that alone.


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## Tobyboy

"He pays me attention"
And she repays him back with sex!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc

Well, I give you lots of credit for not buying her story. No, kids you are still young, too early in the marriage for this to be happening.


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## Hicks

Makingsenseofthis said:


> Thank you everyone.
> 
> To expand, she has showed some significant remorse. My phone is full of "I'm sorry" and "I hope we can work through this" text messages. When we spoke most recently she was crying the entire time. Sadly, I couldn't tell if this crying rooted from being caught in a lie or genuine remorse. When I stopped by to shower today she was very apologetic and asking if we could work on this.
> 
> I think any more investigation into the incident is out of the question. I don't share a phone plan with her and she told me she deleted all other texts with this man because they made her feel gross. That felt like another lie.
> 
> Also, she did admit this was going on for about a month and started briefly after we returned from a vacation celebrating our first anniversary.


The problem is, cheaters lie. So you can't know whether her remorse is genuine or false.


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## mablenc

Makingsenseofthis said:


> Thank you everyone.
> 
> To expand, she has showed some significant remorse. My phone is full of "I'm sorry" and "I hope we can work through this" text messages. When we spoke most recently she was crying the entire time. Sadly, I couldn't tell if this crying rooted from being caught in a lie or genuine remorse. When I stopped by to shower today she was very apologetic and asking if we could work on this.
> 
> *More than likely she got caught, one way to tell is that she will do anything you ask, such as get a copy of her phone bill and show you.*
> 
> I think any more investigation into the incident is out of the question. I don't share a phone plan with her and she told me she deleted all other texts with this man because they made her feel gross. That felt like another lie. *Again if she is remorseful she will show you everything and anything and give up her privacy, write a no contact letter, and do more than 50% of the work to restore the relationship*
> 
> Also, she did admit this was going on for about a month and started briefly after we returned from a vacation celebrating our first anniversary.


*you can be certain it is a lot worse that what she will admit*

read this;

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


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## Makingsenseofthis

Hicks, your most recent post once again reflects my exact feelings: if she needs to invite a man over for flirting and champagne, she would benefit from being single. I am paying for her fun with my heartache.

Part of me realizes we haven't been spending a lot of time and maybe I could pay her more attention. I don't think that suggests straying, though, maybe trying to seek counseling first.

One of the sicker things (beyond the anniversary champagne almost) is that we had a discussion earlier that day when we watched a documentary that involved a cheating couple. I said "you know, if I ever had any inkling that I was going to cheat I think it would be best to just say so and break up in advance." She said "yeah, me too - that is so disgusting that these people would do this to their partner." So ironic...


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## lenzi

If she owned up to it and showed remorse, you might have a slim chance.

But she hasn't and she doesn't so there's nothing left to save here.

Look on the bright side, you've only been married a year, no kids.

Cut your losses and find an honest woman who won't screw another guy 1 year into your marriage. Even if you try to fix this, she won't stay faithful to you for another 40 years, no way.



Makingsenseofthis said:


> To expand, she has showed some significant remorse. My phone is full of "I'm sorry" and "I hope we can work through this" text messages. When we spoke most recently she was crying the entire time..


That's not remorse.


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## Squeakr

Makingsenseofthis said:


> Thank you everyone.
> 
> To expand, she has showed some significant remorse. My phone is full of "I'm sorry" and "I hope we can work through this" text messages. When we spoke most recently she was crying the entire time. Sadly, I couldn't tell if this crying rooted from being caught in a lie or genuine remorse. When I stopped by to shower today she was very apologetic and asking if we could work on this.
> 
> I think any more investigation into the incident is out of the question. I don't share a phone plan with her and she told me she deleted all other texts with this man because they made her feel gross. That felt like another lie.
> 
> Also, she did admit this was going on for about a month and started briefly after we returned from a vacation celebrating our first anniversary.


You know her and you'll have to decide if it is guilt or true remorse. I'm sorry is just words, like I love you's when there is no meaning behind them. You need to decide if she is sorry for being caught or for doing it (I am betting the former). She can get you the records if she wants (you won't see the text bodies but can see how may a day were exchanged). I don't buy into the excuse that all of the sudden they make her fell gross. Funny how just a few days ago she kept them on her phone and now she feels gross??? I have never heard of someone coming out of the fog that quickly. 

She is more than likely minimizing. It was only a month. Seems that the number 1 is a great thing for the WS. It is usually only 1 kiss. Then they met 1 time. It had only been going on for 1 month. It was a 1 night stand. See the pattern. They will minimize as they "don't want to hurt you and are sparing you the truth!" Believe me, I have been there and I would bet money that she is giving you the run around a well. Why would she start something so close to your anniversary and back from a vacation. The truth is it has been going on longer. Ask her to get the phone records for the last 12 months for you and see her response. Or better yet, demand full transparency, email passwords, phone account user ids and passwords, etc and get this information for yourself. Demand that she open them right in front of you, so she doesn't have time to purge the information before she gives the passwords and account info over. Check FB and any other social media. I bet that she has really only put it on hold or taken it underground.


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## Squeakr

Makingsenseofthis said:


> She said "yeah, me too - that is so disgusting that these people would do this to their partner." So ironic...


Said without remorse or regret/ guilt. No way that she is remorseful at this stage (not saying she won't be later on, but not at this stage). I bet they even discussed that and laughed about it?? I know my WW would have!!


Okay, triggering today and projecting a little if no one has figured that out yet. Sorry for your situation OP.


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## Disenchanted

What is your living situation? Do you own or rent?

No kids, be grateful for that.

Kick her out. Inviting another man into your marital home is utterly disrespectful, she is capable of anything.


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## Makingsenseofthis

That primer is amazing. If not for the fact that it has some pure and good advice, the simple clarification of these nebulous ideas is so awesome to have. Being able to put names to these concepts (fog, minimizing, etc.) helps me organize my thoughts.

I agree that she isn't showing true remorse. That just adds to the hurt. She is absolutely minimizing this. I have dangled thoughts and worries of this not being the first time they've gotten together and she has no response.

I am going out of town for a few days to fume and work remotely and told her that we would talk when I return. My idea thus far, and my plan, is to ask her for full and honest disclosure, explanation, production of whatever evidence she can think of, and more. If I feel like she is lying I will probably walk. Is this a good approach?

Thank you again everyone. This is amazing to have. My mind and my heart have never felt so desperate and scattered.


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## Disenchanted

Pick up a VAR and hide it in the house while you're gone.


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## CH

Cut and run, trust me on this one.


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## badmemory

I would say the chances she hasn't had sex with him are at about 1%, and this likely is not the first time.

The conventional wisdom is with no kids, this early in the marriage, it's a losing gamble to R with a wife who would do this. 

But if you were to even consider it, you can't do that without knowing what you are forgiving. You should begin the divorce process now, implement the 180 to detach and see what she does. This may or may not make her confess.

But either way, I agree with the polygraph. That would be a must. And if she agrees to take it, go through with it even if she confesses ahead of it. No matter what she confesses or what the results are; you don't have to R with her. If she refuses to take it, go straight to D.

But when you consider R with her; you need to think long and hard about what she's done to you so early in the marriage. It sound like she's got the emotional maturity of a teenager and it's likely to happen again.


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## Squeakr

I would request all of that information immediately, as in tonight before she has a chance to purge the evidence. This will also give you time to ponder it while gone and see if there is anything worth salvaging. If she flat out refuses, then that means either she doesn't care or the proof you are seeking exists and she is afraid to divulge it. Don't give her the chance to dispose of proof, and also this gives you a chance away to ponder everything. I would also recommend a 180 while gone, so she can't constantly bother you. With the time you are gone, and giving her the demands up front, she has time for damage control. DOn't give her that at all. Also find out whom the OM is and expose him as well. If it is someone from work, then she needs to start job searching ASAP.


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## Hicks

You shoujld not leave. SHe will have her cheater boyfriend over while you are out of the house.


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## Disenchanted

Hicks said:


> You shoujld not leave. SHe will have her cheater boyfriend over while you are out of the house.


But with VAR in place he'll have his answer.


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## kenmoore14217

The only thing required here is an attorney, barrister, lawyer, solicitor, name w/ Esq. after it, what ever floats your boat. Get rid of this cancer now. Sorry


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## warlock07

Makingsenseofthis said:


> I could use some help.
> 
> I am in my late twenties, working on a professional degree. My wife is too. We have been married for just over *one year*, but were together for five years prior.
> 
> Recently I found out she invited a man over to our house.
> 
> I had planned to meet a buddy at a specified time on Sunday to help him out with something and then catch up over dinner. This worked out well, my wife said, because she had a female friend coming over to talk about marriage problems she was having. I was told there would be "waterworks" so be wary about coming home without calling.
> 
> I left around 6:30pm to meet my friend. I arrived back around 9:20 after getting the okay to return. We started watching some TV. I asked about the friend, hoping she was okay. My wife proceeded to tell me the exact story that happened with this woman a year before. I said "that's odd, she is going through the same thing?" My wife clammed up. She was also furtively looking at her phone, which was right in front of me. She then got up and put it in the bedroom. By now I was very nervous and suspicious. I will say I have never once looked at her phone in our entire six years. I pride myself on being trusting. I couldn't help it though, so when my wife went to walk the dog I checked the phone. I found no weird calls. However, I found _many _texts to a man chatting and joking and inviting him over while I was gone, planning on it, talking about it, even saying "hurry up, I'm getting drunk" (my wife had opened a bottle of champagne given to us for our first anniversary right before I left, which I was perplexed by), some texts saying "we are having champagne tonight, is that okay?", then more texts after about 2 hours (the time I assume he was there) joking and flirting.
> 
> When my wife returned I confronted her and asked about this guy. She said "Who?" Then I said, "I looked at your phone." She told me he was no one... we just flirt... As I proceeded to walk out the front door, seething with anger, she said "he pays attention to me." By then I was infuriated. Over the course of the next several hours she gave me stories about how "he was going to come over, but then I changed my mind and called him at the last minute." Remember, there were no calls...
> 
> Some days have gone by, most recently I stopped by to talk to her (as I have been staying away) and the story evolved yet again. Now she has admitted he came over but "we didn't do anything, we just watched a movie and at one point he tried to kiss me." For some _strange_ reason, I can't believe that this is the full story. I can't believe anything about this. I am nearly positive they had sex. The bottle of champagne was 4/5 empty and my wife is certainly a lightweight. She also told me he had nothing to drink, despite their exchange...
> 
> The constant advice I am hearing is to seek marriage counseling and work through this. Is that the way? She has lied, lied, and lied some more. Not only is my unbending trust now bent beyond recognition, but I have never felt so insulted or alienated in my life. Do I/we try to counsel this away? Or do I just walk away?
> 
> Please help me if you have thoughts.


They had sex. Probably not the first time either. 

You can start counseling once she stops lying. 

Do you know who this guy is ? is he in a relationship ?

Check her phone records(the bill)


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## Jasel

Married for just a year and _no _kids???

Run.


RUN.


*RUN.*


*RUN!!!*


*RUUUNN!!!!!*


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## warlock07

Makingsenseofthis said:


> Thank you everyone.
> 
> To expand, she has showed some significant remorse. My phone is full of "I'm sorry" and "I hope we can work through this" text messages. When we spoke most recently she was crying the entire time. Sadly, I couldn't tell if this crying rooted from being caught in a lie or genuine remorse. When I stopped by to shower today she was very apologetic and asking if we could work on this.
> 
> I think any more investigation into the incident is out of the question. I don't share a phone plan with her and she told me she deleted all other texts with this man because they made her feel gross. That felt like another lie.
> 
> Also, she did admit this was going on for about a month and started briefly after we returned from a vacation celebrating our first anniversary.


Tell her that you can recover texts and ask to give you her phone. her reactions will tell you everything.(or you probably should try doing it before you actually ask her. What phone does she have ?)

Ask her the phone records.


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## lenzi

You've only been married for 1 YEAR.

She invited a guy over to your house for the purpose of intimacy. She admits that she's been corresponding with this guy for at least a month.

Regardless of what happened and didn't happen, there is no basis here for a healthy long term relationship with this woman.

None.

Forget all the disclosure crap, and the VAR, and getting phone records, and the looking for remorse.

There are serious problems with this woman and they won't be fixed in your lifetime. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise.


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## warlock07

Makingsenseofthis said:


> That primer is amazing. If not for the fact that it has some pure and good advice, the simple clarification of these nebulous ideas is so awesome to have. Being able to put names to these concepts (fog, minimizing, etc.) helps me organize my thoughts.
> 
> I agree that she isn't showing true remorse. That just adds to the hurt. She is absolutely minimizing this. I have dangled thoughts and worries of this not being the first time they've gotten together and she has no response.
> 
> I am going out of town for a few days to fume and work remotely and told her that we would talk when I return. My idea thus far, and my plan, is to ask her for full and honest disclosure, explanation, production of whatever evidence she can think of, and more. If I feel like she is lying I will probably walk. Is this a good approach?
> 
> Thank you again everyone. This is amazing to have. My mind and my heart have never felt so desperate and scattered.


Why should she confess anything to you ? If she refuses to stop lying, tell her that you will file for divorce once you get back.

And tell her family what she did(if she is close to them). You must absolutely do this. You are not doing it out of spite.


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## LostAndContent

I really would just cut your losses. As hard as that is to hear, it's true. Not only is it incredibly likely that she will do it again once the heat dies down enough to feel safe, it's also likely that this has been going on a long time. Waywards who are just starting to cheat rarely make mistakes like this. It's only once the affair has gone on for a while (or after a succession of successful affairs) that a cheater grows complacent and stops working as hard to keep it secret (because in their mind if you haven't noticed by now you're too stupid to catch on no matter how obvious they are).

Moreover, now that you're aware that she is willing to lie to your face, and is more than willing to do the horizontal tango with other men if she thinks she'll be able to get away with it, you're destined to be paranoid about her for the rest of your life. Is she really talking to her dad on the phone or is it a new fling? She's started to exercise more, I wonder who she's trying to look good for? She's been at the grocery store for a while now, is she really there or did she make a "Pit Stop"? She's pregnant, is it mine?

If you do decide to pursue reconciliation, the best thing you can do is divorce her. Women want a man who will forgive them for whatever they do no matter what forever and ever. Women NEED a man who is confident enough to walk away if she's done something unacceptable because he knows he can do better. If you take her back immediately, she'll know you don't think you can do better than a wife who cheats on you. This will lower your value even more, destroying what attraction to you she still feels. "He won't leave me, he knows no one else will take him. But if no one else will take him, there must be something wrong with him. I deserve better. And anyway, he'll always be waiting for me if I have trouble finding someone else."

So if you decide that you want to make an honest try at fixing your marriage, carry through with the divorce. Remember, divorce takes time, so you won't be rushing into things. Tell her that she's destroyed your marriage, and you cannot remain tied by vows she's shown so little regard for. Tell her that if she wants to be with you, she'll have to build a new relationship from the ground up, starting with dating. But let her know that she'll be competing with women who haven't broken your heart, so it'll be an uphill, almost hopeless battle.

Then watch how she acts during the divorce process. I suspect that once she know's you're really stupid enough to let a girl as awesome as her get away, she'll show her true colors. If she acknowledges your wishes, and doesn't try to take your paycheck with her when she goes, you'll know it's you she wants, not the security you represent. 

Also, hit the gym. Your confidence is pretty low right now, i'm sure. also you have a lot of anger to channel. 

Like I said, really you should just walk away now, but that's hard to do. I understand if you still want to be with her, but your best chance of making that happen is to make sure she know's you're a high value male who doesn't put up with childish bull**** and has his choice of women. That means divorce as a consequence for her betrayal and forcing into a position where you're a prize she's chasing.

If she decides that that's too much trouble. Well then she's already decided she can do better, and it was hopeless from the beginning.


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## Makingsenseofthis

Running keeps sounding like the option. I want to make the right choice, obviously, but I know the right choice isn't always the one that sounds best to me.

I think this situation is different. This is a situation where what is best for me is in fact the right choice. 

Thank you for fueling my thoughts. I am considering a VAR but part of me knows that she is too scared of losing me to have him back over. I know she is maintaining contact, whether or not I have a recording won't change that. I asked her what she said to him after I caught her and she said "Nothing, I didn't send him anything and he didn't send me anything." That is enough for me. That is pure, unbridled crap. No one would react with complete silence. At the very best she would send him something cutting it off. So I know by her answer that she did the opposite of that.

This is such a dark situation.


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## Disenchanted

I only suggest the VAR if you can't just cut your losses, which is what you will eventually do. 

It just depends on how much pain you want to inflict on yourself before you do.


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## CASE_Sensitive

VAR or nanny cam while you are gone.
Don't even think for a second the remorse she's shown you isn't overcome for whatever high this other dude brings.

It's always easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.


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## hopefulgirl

She can get those phone records online - insist that she print them out for you.

As for counseling, a lot depends on how you feel about marriage vows, how much you love your wife, and if you think she was a person of integrity who could be redeemed and "come back" to being the essentially decent person you believed her to be before she strayed.

If you believe strongly in marriage, that you got in it "til death do us part," and you love her very much (despite the hurt and justifiable anger you feel now), and if you thought she was a decent person who was incapable of cheating on you, you may want to spend the time in counseling to explore what went wrong inside of her and see if your marriage might be saved.

Some good people do bad things. There are things that increase their vulnerability to affairs. There are no excuses, but some things help to explain what sets them down that bad path. You may want to put the time and effort into reconciliation, but you may not - it's NOT easy. I'm doing it, and I can tell you, it's no piece of cake. I don't believe it can be done without counseling. And a bad counselor can make it worse.

If you don't have a strong belief in the institution of marriage, or if she was always slippery with the truth, don't bother trying to reconcile. You have to see her, you, and your marriage as 3 separate entities, all of which are highly important to you. If her actions were enough to make the marriage not worth fighting for in your eyes (worse lies than usual on her part, and getting married wasn't highly valued to begin with), then the marriage is not that big a deal to her or to you - don't bother with counseling to save it. If you believed in your bones that you would grow old together, and meant your vows when you spoke them the day you married, then your marriage IS worth at least giving a good marriage therapist a shot at trying to save.

At the very least, in counseling she may start to come out of her "fog" in which case you will get more truth, which you will want to have moving forward, whatever you decide to do (stay or divorce).

Especially since you're a student, I strongly recommend Shirley Glass' book, NOT Just Friends - the author is considered the expert on the subject of infidelity. It's got the most research to back up what she says, and it's well written. Very compassionate, toward both the betrayed and the unfaithful as well.


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## rrrbbbttt

Tell her you want her to take a polygraph and gauge her reaction.

The threat of one may begin to bring out the TT.


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## Makingsenseofthis

As a quick update, she is sending the phone records and I will then check them against my schedule and my time over the past several weeks. I will determine from that whether there were more planned meetups (my assumption is that a concentration of texts or a single call will occur before and after each of these, with an hour or more of radio silence in between).

I have one more very important question, do I try to get in touch with this guy? I know his number, where he lives, and what he looks like. My father was a private detective and my mom a district attorney, so this stuff is programmed into me. I wouldn't approach him in person because I don't trust that I would be able to control myself and not hurt him. But do you all think that a call would be therapeutic?

Thank you again.


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## Makingsenseofthis

As a quick update, she is sending the phone records and I will then check them against my schedule and my time over the past several weeks. I will determine from that whether there were more planned meetups (my assumption is that a concentration of texts or a single call will occur before and after each of these, with an hour or more of radio silence in between).

I have one more very important question, do I try to get in touch with this guy? I know his number, where he lives, and what he looks like. My father was a private detective and my mom a district attorney, so this stuff is programmed into me. I wouldn't approach him in person because I don't trust that I would be able to control myself and not hurt him. But do you all think that a call would be therapeutic?

Thank you again.


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## warlock07

Makingsenseofthis said:


> As a quick update, she is sending the phone records and I will then check them against my schedule and my time over the past several weeks. I will determine from that whether there were more planned meetups (my assumption is that a concentration of texts or a single call will occur before and after each of these, with an hour or more of radio silence in between).
> 
> I have one more very important question, do I try to get in touch with this guy? I know his number, where he lives, and what he looks like. My father was a private detective and my mom a district attorney, so this stuff is programmed into me. I wouldn't approach him in person because I don't trust that I would be able to control myself and not hurt him. But do you all think that a call would be therapeutic?
> 
> Thank you again.



Ask her for the login to the website directly.

And ask your father about recovering deleted texts from a cellphone.


----------



## harrybrown

Ask her if she has been tested for stds? Ask her if she is pregnant from her lover. Ask her for a timeline of everything and did she do it with him in your bed? Ask her how she would feel if you cheated? You should run like you said. I thought you said that you do not have any children. Tell her family, expose her and tell the other man's family.


----------



## BK23

Makingsenseofthis said:


> As a quick update, she is sending the phone records and I will then check them against my schedule and my time over the past several weeks. I will determine from that whether there were more planned meetups (my assumption is that a concentration of texts or a single call will occur before and after each of these, with an hour or more of radio silence in between).
> 
> I have one more very important question, do I try to get in touch with this guy? I know his number, where he lives, and what he looks like. My father was a private detective and my mom a district attorney, so this stuff is programmed into me. I wouldn't approach him in person because I don't trust that I would be able to control myself and not hurt him. But do you all think that a call would be therapeutic?
> 
> Thank you again.


Generally probably not helpful to contact the OM. You could try a tact like: "Hey, no hard feelings, this is on my wife, I just need to verify her story to see what I should do. She says you two only had sex once. Is this true?"


----------



## KanDo

Please, just get out!


----------



## Disenchanted

Do not contact OM.

She still has the phone he contacts her on? :scratchhead:


----------



## Tobyboy

Dude! They already got their stories straight. Your gonna get the same BS you got from your W. Tell your W that your dad recommended a highly respected polygrapher and she is to take one immediately for you to even consider reconciliation. Her reaction will be telling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

Yes, she does. And she is supposedly tracking down records as we speak.

I am so inclined to get in touch with this guy and game him to figure out whether she is still lying. The very very sad truth is, I know she is lying. I just know it. So why am I considering VAR and tricking the OM? This situation produces some sad consequences. I just appreciate that a community exists like this one.


----------



## Chris Taylor

I'd do the VAR while you are away. Also get the login for her phone account, email account, computer, Iphone find-your-phone password, etc... I use AT&T and they have a tracking feature that shows you where the phone is (generally). Get that, too (not sure about other carriers).

The thing is that whatever you do in the future, right now is the time to get the evidence. If you decide to walk based on the evidence you have now, she will be able to tell everyone that you walked because she was being friendly to a guy. With evidence you can throw that right back at her.

Is the other man married? Girlfriend? Do some hunting of your own.


----------



## Disenchanted

Makingsenseofthis said:


> Yes, she does. And she is supposedly tracking down records as we speak.
> 
> I am so inclined to get in touch with this guy and game him to figure out whether she is still lying. The very very sad truth is, I know she is lying. I just know it. So why am I considering VAR and tricking the OM? This situation produces some sad consequences. I just appreciate that a community exists like this one.


If you decide to leave for a few days, I would play it cool with your wayward wife. I would place a VAR (or two) in the house and just tell her you need some space to clear your head, and you will talk when you get back.

Even if she doesn't have any "company" while you're gone, she'll likely be on the phone and you'll get what you need to know that moving on from your sham marriage is the correct decision.

Or just take her damned phone and start reading the texts that are no doubt still coming in.


----------



## Remains

Get her phone and download all files now. Deleted texts can be recovered...but only if they are not overwritten. 

I also agree with a lot of the above. You can ask for a lot of things that will gauge her reaction. And her reaction will tell you all you need to know. E.g. Polygraph - who cares if it is inaccurate, her reaction to doing one will tell a lot. All passwords to all accounts. Her computer history. Her temporary files. Best thing you can do is download all her phone info right now. Also, check on her phone app info...if it is playstore then you can find out all apps ever downloaded, even if they are now deleted. Often they will use a text/message app so it doesn't show up on the bill (though as you have seen, she was using regular texts so this may be a dead end)...but do it anyway so you can verify now while you can. 

There are many ways to find the real truth, and many of them, just asking for them, will show you if she is being truthful or not. Her reactions are your greatest friend right now in discovering the truth.


----------



## Jasel

Makingsenseofthis said:


> I have one more very important question, do I try to get in touch with this guy? I know his number, where he lives, and what he looks like. My father was a private detective and my mom a district attorney, so this stuff is programmed into me. I wouldn't approach him in person because I don't trust that I would be able to control myself and not hurt him. But do you all think that a call would be therapeutic?
> 
> Thank you again.


No. Do not contact him at all. Especially since you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt what happened. All you're going to do is come off looking weak and probably stroke your wife's ego by having 2 men fighting over her.

The ONLY type of contact you should have with this man is if he has a wife/girlfriend and exposing any concrete evidence of cheating on his part to her and any of his friend's family you can get a hold of.

If you contact him he has no reason or incentive to tell you anything let alone the truth, especially since you can't prove anything, and you'd just give him an opportunity to cover his tracks.


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

Okay, this all makes sense. I will refrain from getting in touch with him. I can call his family, but is that more spiteful than it is helpful to me? As of now, I'm only worried about me. I'm done being a martyr. It's clear where that got me.

I will try to make inroads on discovering as much of the truth as possible. I am fairly sure that I can see the big picture, even if blurry. All of the posters who took note of the brevity of our marriage and recommended leaving make a stellar point. If she can't remain faithful for 12 months, how can she do so for 12 years?

When I visited our home to talk to her, all I could think about was looking at and sifting through her phone, tearing apart the place for evidence, and how not a word she said was true. I don't think I can live that way.


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

Any idea if O/M is married, g/f, etc? Probably a forgone conclusion, but I"m assuming O/M knows you WS is married. The fact is the dude was in your house, on your couch and who knows where else. 

I'd be having a bon fire/garage sale fer sure.


----------



## Squeakr

Remember that you do have the texts and the you have proof of an EA at the minimum (but we all know it is a full blown PA). She admitted to kissing him and the inappropriate texts (which she immediately deleted), this is enough to prove an EA has occurred.


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

I don't know the OM's relationship status. I have information and names, but it looks like he lives with his parents... Wow. My WW decided to bat below her average. Or maybe I just have the wrong perception of her average.

As far as my place being tainted, I haven't been home yet except to take a brief shower this morning. I've been couch surfing and I won't go near our bed.


----------



## aug

The main problem I see here is that you're only married 1, that is *ONE*, year and she's cheating on you already.

Both of you should still be in the honeymoon phase of the marriage. But she's not. Her mind and heart have already left the marriage. And so easily too, it seems.

Since there's no magical bond to keep her faithful at this stage of your relationship, the long term prognosis is poor.

Get out now when you can, when you're not tied down by kids (who will keep you wondering if they are yours). Get out now when your financial and personal get more deeply intertwined.


----------



## tom67

Makingsenseofthis said:


> I don't know the OM's relationship status. I have information and names, but it looks like he lives with his parents... Wow. My WW decided to bat below her average. Or maybe I just have the wrong perception of her average.
> 
> As far as my place being tainted, I haven't been home yet except to take a brief shower this morning. I've been couch surfing and I won't go near our bed.


Well time to cut this one loose. Expose to her parents and friends. The dude lives at home with his parents:slap::slap:


----------



## lenzi

Makingsenseofthis said:


> The very very sad truth is, I know she is lying. I just know it. So why am I considering VAR and tricking the OM?


Because you're in denial. Logicially you know the truth and the consequences, but emotionally you can't let go. Yet. It's like two different minds are arguing inside your head.

It's the body's way of shielding you from too great an emotional impact. Over the next days and weeks you will soon realize that you must leave this woman. Take your time.


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

Yes, I believe I am in denial. 

The logical side of me plays this out over and over, discerns only three or four possible scenarios, and realizes that all of them disgust me. It also highlights the fact that before this, I would never in my life consider staying with a disloyal wife. I am not Christian and I have no spiritual tie to my vows, just an emotional one. She is Christian, and she has showed that she obviously has neither.

The emotional side, though, is tangled up in thinking that (1) this could be the last chance at happiness, (2) it is too easy to just run away and I should take the hard road, (3) I made a commitment for life.

Come to think of it, the emotional side of me doesn't have much to go on. Telling.


----------



## Pepper123

All very good and necessary points have already been made... Find someone who deserves your love and faithfulness.


----------



## lenzi

Makingsenseofthis said:


> (1) this could be the last chance at happiness, (2) it is too easy to just run away and I should take the hard road, (3) I made a commitment for life.


(1) You're young, lots of available women out there who can and will make you happy.

(2) It's not easy to run away, your existing life will crumble and you're going to have to build a new one. If it was easy, most if not all betrayed partners would take that path. 

(3) You may have made a commitment for life, but she sure didn't.


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

Thanks Lenzi, you and everyone else are very judicious but in an educated and well-composed way. It is so refreshing after this barrage of advice and irrelevant bull**** she and everyone else is throwing around.

Crumble is a good word. Watching all of these important pieces of my life fall away is heartbreaking but I know I'm strong enough to put it back together if in fact it is broken.

On a related topic, if I do tell her when I see her Friday that I am filing for divorce, should I inform those close to her so that she has a support network? My city has a fairly high suicide rate and I am afraid of something drastic happening given that she has a very thin support network here (not counting the OM of course...).


----------



## Disenchanted

You should read up on the 180.

She's not your responsibility, and obviously you aren't hers.

Take care of yourself now, she has _betrayed_ you.


----------



## Disenchanted

Just a small side note, straight talk (walmart burner phone company) does not keep text history. 

All good cheaters use this one.


----------



## Racer

Always trust your gut. It hasn't been wrong so far and led you to find that she was lying. Go ahead and trust to the extent of what you believe happened.

It's on her shoulders now to prove anything otherwise in a concrete fashion or confess to allow you to heal faster without having to play "but what if..." mind games with yourself. 

This is the honeymoon phase. Marriage just gets tougher down the line. If she can't stay faithful for a year, you do not stand a chance. Sorry... much easier to do it now than years from now.


Makingsenseofthis said:


> On a related topic, if I do tell her when I see her Friday that I am filing for divorce, should I inform those close to her so that she has a support network? My city has a fairly high suicide rate and I am afraid of something drastic happening given that she has a very thin support network here (not counting the OM of course...).


Tell her first then call her family to let them know (and why) and your concerns about her needing someone as you are stepping out of the picture and can no longer be that guy for her. You need your own support and must start thinking as an individual versus what is best for a couple.


----------



## Squeakr

Disenchanted said:


> Just a small side note, straight talk (walmart burner phone company) does not keep text history.
> 
> All good cheaters use this one.


I don't know of any providers that keep text content (some have VMs on the system but once deleted after listening to they are gone as well). The providers generally only provide the text information for the exchanges (sent and received numbers). To retrieve the deleted information you you would need to physically obtain the device and connect it to a computer and retrieve the information before the system overwrites it (which just normally happens when it starts saving information on prviously deleted/ marked for deletion storage cells).


----------



## Disenchanted

Squeakr said:


> I don't know of any providers that keep text content (some have VMs on the system but once deleted after listening to they are gone as well). The providers generally only provide the text information for the exchanges (sent and received numbers). To retrieve the deleted information you you would need to physically obtain the device and connect it to a computer and retrieve the information before the system overwrites it (which just normally happens when it starts saving information on prviously deleted/ marked for deletion storage cells).


What I meant was

My WW used straight talk. They don't keep any history of texts whatsoever.

As far as I know every other company keeps a record of texts made. None keep content of texts.


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

Yes, I may very well employ some recovery software on Friday when I see her. Either that or I will just say goodbye. The pieces simply do not fit well enough to encourage me to put this back together.


----------



## Squeakr

Disenchanted said:


> What I meant was
> 
> My WW used straight talk. They don't keep any history of texts whatsoever.
> 
> As far as I know every other company keeps a record of texts made. None keep content of texts.


Okay, I'll take your word for it (as I don't have ST). The link you posted though only talks about content and not about history. Content and history are different things and they specifically address content only. I thought pretty much all carriers would do detailed billing. Learn something new everyday (guess that means I am done for today  ).

Guess I'll be sure and stay away from ST.

I bet the NSA has them!!


----------



## Jasel

Makingsenseofthis said:


> Okay, this all makes sense. I will refrain from getting in touch with him. I can call his family, but is that more spiteful than it is helpful to me? .


Do not call his family because you cannot prove anything. It's simply your word against his and they'd more inclined to believe his word than yours. Do NOT expose to anyone without CONCRETE irrefutable evidence.


----------



## Squeakr

Could claim he has fingerprints off the bottle and glasses (and he has the wife's admission. That is enough in itself).


----------



## warlock07

Makingsenseofthis said:


> Yes, she does. And she is supposedly tracking down records as we speak.
> 
> I am so inclined to get in touch with this guy and game him to figure out whether she is still lying. The very very sad truth is, I know she is lying. I just know it. So why am I considering VAR and tricking the OM? This situation produces some sad consequences. I just appreciate that a community exists like this one.


How is she giving you the records..Couldn't she just give you the login to the carrier website ?Until now, the way your wife is playing this, she think you are an idiot.


----------



## Disenchanted

Squeakr said:


> The link you posted though only talks about content and not about history.


The last thing written by the ST person said:



> We do not keep records of all incoming and outgoing text messages as well as voicemail messages.


My ww promised to get me text history, but couldn't. I verified that she was telling the truth.

I use GoPhone prepaid and even that keeps history of texts. That's how I found out about her A, but alas, by that time she already had a secret phone (ST).


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

Jasel, I hate to say it but I've exposed to a handful of people close to me. 

The evidence, to me, is fairly concrete and irrefutable. At the very least (given her admission) she had a man over at our house watching TV while lying to me about her activities. At the very most (given the provocative texts, the roughly one hour timeframe of his presence, the fact that she admits this has been going on for a month (at least), the fact that she says text records will reveal "a lot" of texts over the past few weeks, and the 1/5 full bottle of champagne) she got drunk with a guy she had been seeing for a while and bedded him in our marital bed while lying to me about her activity.

Now maybe I exposed prematurely but I have very little occurring in me right now besides heartbreak and disappointment and a shattered world. I wish I had the resolve not to call the people I care about, but I don't and I didn't. Was that a mistake?


----------



## Jasel

I wouldn't even tell her you plan on filing. Just file and hand her the papers or have her served. It would be in your best interest to not tell her your plans or intentions period.


----------



## Squeakr

Text messages are generally the entire content of the messages and considering the rest of the conversation was on retrieving deleted text messages and not a listing of the the texting history, it fits with that context. You would not believe how many people think that they can have copies of all of the text messages sent to them upon request through their provider.


----------



## aug

Makingsenseofthis said:


> Now maybe I exposed prematurely but I have very little occurring in me right now besides heartbreak and disappointment and a shattered world. I wish I had the resolve not to call the people I care about, but I don't and I didn't. *Was that a mistake?*


No, it was not a mistake to expose.


----------



## aug

Jasel said:


> I wouldn't even tell her you plan on filing. Just file and hand her the papers or have her served. It would be in your best interest to not tell her your plans or intentions period.


After protecting yourself by removing yourself from any joint bank accounts, credit cards, loans (if possible). Secure your finance.


----------



## Squeakr

Don't forget that she admits to kissing him, it having been going on for a least a month, and that she asked you to call before coming hoe to make sure it was clear to come home (why else would she do this if what she was doing was so innocent)?


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

warlock07 said:


> How is she giving you the records..Couldn't she just give you the login to the carrier website ?Until now, the way your wife is playing this, she think you are an idiot.


She is apparently "working on it." 

I asked for login information for the records. She said "if I can't get them to you, is this over?" I said "My decision to stay with you will not hinge on some stupid records. They will just contribute to how clear I feel about my decision."

Yes, she thinks she is playing me. I have no idea why. I am intelligent and she knows it. I am not here to toot my horn, but I am so dumbfounded how petty and unsophisticated her lying is. A poster mentioned earlier that this complacence means many affairs or a long, ongoing one. It bothers me that those are proportional but it is certainly telling.


----------



## Tobyboy

Is the OM/boy under 21? Is he a student? Where did they meet? I bet once you get those text records, you will find that your WW was the instigator!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

> if I can't get them to you, is this over?


Is she actually bargaining?


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

Tobyboy said:


> Is the OM/boy under 21? Is he a student? Where did they meet? I bet once you get those text records, you will find that your WW was the instigator!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No no. We are in our mid twenties. He is our age. He graduated from her program prior to her and they exchanged numbers "at some point recently" (which seems like another lie, as it has been summer for months).

On Friday, I intend to ask for her phone, plug it into my recovery software, and read what I can find.


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

warlock07 said:


> Is she actually bargaining?


It seems that way doesn't it? I would think that approach is a no no.

It feels, right now, as if she is the most self-obsessed, unsympathetic person in the world. I am sure that is not the case but I keep repeating that I need truth and remorse rather than fear and self-preservation.


----------



## Tobyboy

Don't wait till Friday....do it now!! Ask to see her phone ,ask her to get you something to drink, then leave with it !! Oh and make sure it's not password protected.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

What phone does she have ?


----------



## Disenchanted

There is only one option if NC (no contact) is not made. _NC has to happen immediately or your hands are tied, you don't have any choices.
_
Her method of contact is that phone. 

My WW wouldn't relinquish her phone to me. I'm living in the house now, she isn't. Just sayin'.


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

warlock07 said:


> What phone does she have ?


iPhone 5. 

I am considering buying this program: Buy iPhone Data Recovery Software- Tenorshare

Is there any preferred alternative?


----------



## Disenchanted

Does she back her phone up? You don't even need her phone if she's backed it up recently.

iExplorer is free and can read all text history that has been backed up on a computer.

No phone needed.


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

Disenchanted said:


> There is only one option if NC (no contact) is not made. _NC has to happen immediately or your hands are tied, you don't have any choices.
> _
> Her method of contact is that phone.
> 
> My WW wouldn't relinquish her phone to me. I'm living in the house now, she isn't. Just sayin'.


I am going to go the same route. I will determine whether NC occurred as of Sunday night when I run the recovery software.


----------



## Tobyboy

Remember, if they were using iMessage to text on their phones, there will be no records of it online. Just saying.


----------



## workindad

Op obviously she was and still is lying to you. That means she is not remorseful and is more interested in protecting her affair partner and her secret than she is about you and her marriage. 

This far in and no kids. I would cut my losses. 

Do the 180 for yourself. 

Do not have sex with her without a condom You do not want to catch anything std

If you are interested in reconciling or pursuing r. Then get a var demand a polygraph. Also keylog her pc
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Disenchanted

That's not true actually. I use iMessage and when I do it's saved on every Mac computer I own (scary when I found this out). Maybe some folks don't know that but if you have an Apple ID associated with your iPhone the messages are seamless between phone and any computer using Apple's "Messages" with the same Apple ID associated.

So technically, you could log into an Apple computer and fire up messages and stick the apple id she has in there and see all the history.

Hell give me her apple id and pwd and I'll do it from my computer for you, lol.


----------



## workindad

Op also he is a full grown man in an emotional affair as evidenced by her texts. She invites him over and gets you out of the house. Then she adds alcohol to the mix. 

Think about that. What man in his 20s or any age for that matter isn't there to get laid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Squeakr

Tobyboy said:


> Remember, if they were using iMessage to text on their phones, there will be no records of it online. Just saying.


Not entirely true. Although you won't have record of the exchanges, such as a detailed text history, if they are using it not on wifi, then you will see lots of small data exchanges over the cellular network as data. This can be just as telling, especially when it is at times that you wouldn't normally be up "searching" the web. This is one way I caught my WW (that and my server logs all the iMessages and their content, so it was doubly damning and this can be set up on any device to work that way.  )

I have also used iScavenge and it works well also.

Edit: I see Disenchanted beat me to the punch about Message, and that is how I found out about my WW as well.


----------



## Decorum

Msot,

Your gut is right on the money.
We see the cheater talk here all the time.

"We are just friends"-its an emotional affair!

"We just kissed"-they had sex!

"It was only once"-she lost count!

Her level of disrespect is breathtaking.

Having sex in your house maybe in your martial bed, sharing your anniversary Champagne with her affair partner, lying, lying , lying with no remorse, do you really think this woman is marriage material? (Its an easy mistake for a man to make, many here can attest to that.)

Unless your marriage is really troubled, your wife should still be in the glow of honeymoon, not cheating with some random dude.

She is either not ready for marriage or she is a serial cheater.

Either way she loves being loved and chased but she does not love you.

She does not want the title cheater, and the shame of divorce, she sees you as a good provider but wants her "exciting" sex on the side, instead of building a satisfying relationship with you.

There is a woman who cheated on her husband (her story is on TAM, now divorced) and then started a thread on TAM asking WHEN should she tell someone that she was dating that she cheating on her husband.

You WW can see that sign post from here and she does not want to go there, and she sees your pain/needs and is not going there either. From here I see no sign of remorse.

I think you will see your respect for her slip away day by day and with it your love. I have seen it before, where the BS no longer values being loved by the WS anymore.

Cheating is a choice and getting you out of the house so she can cheat is cuckoldry.

The benefit of the doubt trust you had in her will never return.
Every text, every time she leaves the house you will wonder.

I don't want to cause you more pain.

You are in denial (5 stages of grief) it is the wrong time to decide to "work this out".

I am so sorry she has done this to you, I just want to see you get your bearing and make good decisions from a place of objectivity.

I wish you well,

Take care!

BTW, it is a very bad idea to do any counseling if she has contact with Om, there are good reasons to not agree to this.


----------



## Tobyboy

Disenchanted said:


> That's not true actually. I use iMessage and when I do it's saved on every Mac computer I own (scary when I found this out). Maybe some folks don't know that but if you have an Apple ID associated with your iPhone the messages are seamless between phone and any computer using Apple's "Messages" with the same Apple ID associated.
> 
> So technically, you could log into an Apple computer and fire up messages and stick the apple id she has in there and see all the history.
> 
> Hell give me her apple id and pwd and I'll do it from my computer for you, lol.


I didn't know that. My iCloud is turned "off" on phone settings. What I meant was the phone carrier account will show no usage....if iMessage was used.


----------



## tom67

Are you ever going to be able to trust her again? Go cold on her till friday file for divorce and then tell her to pack her stuff and you will take her either to her parents or the om house I'm sure his parents would be thrilled. I mean she planned this and screwed another man in your house. I don't know what else there is and only 1 year in?


----------



## Squeakr

Tobyboy said:


> I didn't know that. My iCloud is turned "off" on phone settings. What I meant was the phone carrier account will show no usage....if iMessage was used.


See my reply to your post. And this has nothing to do with iCloud. It is the nature of iMessage and Messages synchronization and seamless usage between devices.


----------



## Disenchanted

Tobyboy said:


> I didn't know that. My iCloud is turned "off" on phone settings. What I meant was the phone carrier account will show no usage....if iMessage was used.


Yeah it was frikin awesome when I get a instant message over the computer and up pops some sexy text history I had on my phone at a previous point in time.

With my kids sitting next to me.

Oops.

Lol

ETA I think that when you delete a message from your phone or computer it takes it off of the iMessage server too. So any messages from her phone sent over iMessage that have been deleted are probably irretrievable.


----------



## Tobyboy

Squeakr said:


> Not entirely true. Although you won't have record of the exchanges, such as a detailed text history, if they are using it not on wifi, then you will see lots of small data exchanges over the cellular network as data. This can be just as telling, especially when it is at times that you wouldn't normally be up "searching" the web. This is one way I caught my WW (that and my server logs all the iMessages and their content, so it was doubly damning and this can be set up on any device to work that way.  )
> 
> I have also used iScavenge and it works well also.
> 
> Edit: I see Disenchanted beat me to the punch about Message, and that is how I found out about my WW as well.


 I get the small data usage, but that's all circumstantial. Without a phone number attached......its useless!!! Those texts(?) could be to anybody with an iPhone, iPod, ianything!!!


----------



## badbane

Yea the Imessage works so does breaking into her iphone backups. I think with imessage you can erase history if you are paranoid enough.


----------



## badcompany

I think someone savvy could make a program that would scan these original posts and post a probability of cheating.
I'd say this one would be about 86%.
One year in, apartment? No kids..
The anniversary champaign consumption with some other guy is a big red flag and in itself very disrespectful.
Nuke her.


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

badcompany said:


> I think someone savvy could make a program that would scan these original posts and post a probability of cheating.
> I'd say this one would be about 86%.
> One year in, apartment? No kids..
> The anniversary champaign consumption with some other guy is a big red flag and in itself very disrespectful.
> Nuke her.


Hi Badcompany, thanks for contributing.

I do think that number seems accurate. I can't imagine a situation in which sex would not have occurred. WW says that her and OM watched a movie and he "tried to kiss" her and he left after the movie. To corroborate that, even though I could only see red when reading the text messages, one of them mentioned the movie she said they watched (as in, the OM making a joke about the movie). I sincerely think this is the loosest, weakest story imaginable.

Not to mention, when I saw her later that night her hair (which is normally curly but she straightens) had small curls in areas that she usually gets after we have sex. I know that is nitpicking, but I've been having sex with this woman for six years, and I know what it looks like afterwards.

I think my choice is becoming more and more clear as I flesh my thoughts out on here. This is an amazing medium.


----------



## Ovid

badcompany said:


> I think someone savvy could make a program that would scan these original posts and post a probability of cheating.
> I'd say this one would be about 86%.
> One year in, apartment? No kids..
> The anniversary champaign consumption with some other guy is a big red flag and in itself very disrespectful.
> Nuke her.


Using the chanpaign with OM says it all. It shows she valued getting OM drunk more than the M. In my opinion that's 99.999% odds it's a PA.


----------



## barbados

She had sex with him in your bed. What more do you need to know. Your only in your mid 20's and no kids. Move on. 

Any advice you are getting about counseling is so wrong its laughable. I'll bet $1M that not one person who suggested counseling was getting cheated on after only a stinkin' year of marriage.

I would not even bother with any more evidence gathering. You don't need it. Be done with her. Your next contact with her should be to serve her D papers.


----------



## Tobyboy

Champagne for celebrating! Not for movie night.


----------



## Squeakr

Tobyboy said:


> I get the small data usage, but that's all circumstantial. Without a phone number attached......its useless!!! Those texts(?) could be to anybody with an iPhone, iPod, ianything!!!


Yes, but they don't know that. If they tell you they are not doing anything wrong and NC is maintained, yet you see constant data usage at 2:30am (when they are supposedly asleep) that is reason enough. Then the hidden files within the IOS will reveal the truth as the time stamps will match (these are files that they can't delete without the knowledge, which let's face it if they had that we wouldn't be here with this issue in the first place would we???).

It is like the threat of a poly, they know you have something but do they want to try and beat it or just come clean??


----------



## Disenchanted

Makingsenseofthis said:


> some texts saying "we are having champagne *tonight*, is that okay?"


He's been in your house _before_.

Phucking disgusting man. How can a person be so phucking cruel?


----------



## bryanp

If the roles were reversed she would not put up with such humiliation and disrespect from you so you should not put up with it from her. She shows a complete lack of respect for you and your marriage.
If you do not respect yourself then who will?

On a side note you may wish to call the OM and tell him your wife confessed and that you will be naming him in the divorce proceeding. It will be interesting to see how he would react.


----------



## bryanp

Great point by disenchanted. That statement indicates that this was not the first time he was in your home.
1. Get tested for STD's.
2. See a lawyer now.


----------



## tom67

bryanp said:


> Great point by disenchanted. That statement indicates that this was not the first time he was in your home.
> 1. Get tested for STD's.
> 2. See a lawyer now.


No need to investigate anymore. File and get on with your life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

Luckily, we are poor enough and young enough that we have done very little to complicate a divorce. In my state, there exists a particular divorce statute that enables divorce without any hearing or special proceeding if the relationship has few enough attachments (no kids, little property, etc.).

So I am in a position to employ this divorce method and I am beginning to think I intend to.

Disenchanted, I don't know those were her exact words. Again, this is heat of the moment and I didn't think to spend a lot of time. Most of what I saw was "hurry up, I'm getting drunk" and the peripherals just pissed me off by existing. I did see the weird conversation about the exact drink they were going to have. Come on? A conversation about what type of liquor? Are we sixteen? It makes me think of Superbad-- "Get me Goldslick! It's all I drink! You know, the one with the glitter floating around." 

Instead, they drank first anniversary champagne. I remember being so shocked when she opened it as I left. I am not controlling nor do I attach to crap like that, but I said "Really? Wasn't that an anniversary present?" And she said, "It's cheap! We can always get another one." Come on...


----------



## MrK

Makingsenseofthis said:


> Instead, they drank first anniversary champagne. I remember being so shocked when she opened it as I left.


Champagne for a girl chat? Then tells you not to come home until you call first?

She wanted to get caught. She wants out of this marriage, but she won't leave. She needs you to kick her out.


----------



## lenzi

Makingsenseofthis said:


> I remember being so shocked when she opened it as I left. I am not controlling nor do I attach to crap like that, but I said "Really? Wasn't that an anniversary present?" And she said, "It's cheap! We can always get another one." Come on...


It's rather strange that she opened the bottle right in front of you as compared to waiting until after you left. 

It's almost like she's getting off on the deception and rubbing it in your face that she's drinking that special champagne without you, and of course she knows something you don't know- that someone else will be drinking it with her.

I've read posts where betrayed husbands have had oral sex with their wives (done intentionally by the wife) after they've been with the OM and that sort of hostility seems to be inline with what you are experiencing here.


----------



## Disenchanted

gross


----------



## treyvion

lenzi said:


> It's rather strange that she opened the bottle right in front of you as compared to waiting until after you left.
> 
> It's almost like she's getting off on the deception and rubbing it in your face that she's drinking that special champagne without her, and of course she knows something you don't know- that someone else will be drinking it with her.
> 
> I've read posts where betrayed husbands have had oral sex with their wives (done intentionally by the wife) after they've been with the OM and that sort of hostility seems to be inline with what you are experiencing here.


Thats some serious cucking.


----------



## azteca1986

Even in her in her deceitful scenario a girlfriend is coming over to discuss marriage problems - hardly a champagne moment.



Makingsenseofthis said:


> Instead, they drank first anniversary champagne. I remember being so shocked when she opened it as I left. I am not controlling nor do I attach to crap like that, but I said "Really? Wasn't that an anniversary present?" And she said, "It's cheap! We can always get another one." Come on...


*Our* First anniversary present. A tad early to be getting blasé about that sort of thing. There is no way on earth a spouse would fail to see the significance of that gift (cheap or otherwise). Clearly your first anniversary meant nothing to your wife. 

Sorry for you, Msot.


----------



## tom67

She has really made the decision easy for you. Sad but it could have been worse.


----------



## lenzi

treyvion said:


> Thats some serious cucking.


Especially if the husband tastes the other man's semen, knows what it is, and doesn't complain about it.


----------



## southernsurf

Makingsenseofthis said:


> Hi Badcompany, thanks for contributing.
> 
> I can't imagine a situation in which sex would not have occurred. WW says that her and OM watched a movie and he "tried to kiss" her and he left after the movie.


She’s not very (street) smart is she! There is absolutely no reason a married woman would have a man over to her house scratchhead to drink just to watch a movie. None want so ever! And a man the H doesn’t know. One goal of his was to get in her pants and sounds like she let him. 

You have just been given a free pass out of hell to start over – take it and learn from the mistakes - no kids, next time this happens its going to cost you a lot of money – better remember that. It makes your decision easier. If I was 25 again with what I know now, I would be gone in a split second – would not even want to hear he sorry excuse for a story. Because trust me she will beg to come back try again. There a lot of pretty smart girls out there waiting for an educated guy with a career. 
Enjoy the fresh start, I know it will hurt but getting started is the hardest step. good luck ,you will be fine (better off)


----------



## Squeakr

I must say this brings back thoughts of about a year and a half ago, my kids were having a sleepover. Don't know what happened, but somehow the shelf that had most of our M mementos and some of my special mementos from the military on it got knocked down and everything except for a few metal things shattered (as they were all glass). The WW was crying how her memories were destroyed, this was about 2 month before D-DAY). I look back now and think, who cares they are gone just like our M. I have even been tempted to bring this up when she fights with me, about how they are destroyed and it is good. I can be mean at times, but haven't stooped to that level........yet!!


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

I have to say, I exposed quite a bit because I didn't know who to turn to and the first night (Sunday night) was horrendous. Drove away, went to friends house who lives with 4 other slightly fratty guys, stayed in "the empty room" which has a broken window, four piles of laundry and approximately 25 half full beer bottles with a mattress somewhere under all of that. So after that, I needed to talk to anyone I cared about who would listen just to keep from going insane.

Even with all of that venting and exposure, posting on this forum and learning from all of you might be the single best experience in the past 48 hours (which have seemed like forever). I am not close to parents or siblings, but I imagine this is how it would feel if I was. 

Thanks.


----------



## BK23

Glad you're getting some solace and good advice from this forum. Don't let her snow you even a little. You KNOW they had sex that night, and it is a near certainty it wasn't the first time.

This is a pretty sh!tty silver lining, but at least this happened now. Trust me, as awful as this is, throw in a couple kids and a mortgage and it gets worse.


----------



## Squeakr

BK23 said:


> Glad you're getting some solace and good advice from this forum. Don't let her snow you even a little. You KNOW they had sex that night, and it is a near certainty it wasn't the first time.
> 
> This is a pretty sh!tty silver lining, but at least this happened now. Trust me, as awful as this is, throw in a couple kids and a mortgage and it gets worse.



:iagree::iagree::iagree: This (I know).


----------



## tom67

If you really need the details you could spend $500 plus on a poly. I personally would not even in this case and move on.


----------



## Disenchanted

BK23 said:


> This is a pretty sh!tty silver lining, but at least this happened now. Trust me, as awful as this is, throw in a couple kids and a mortgage and it gets worse.


Amen to that!

So far my WW's infidelity has cost me over $55k, not to mention CS and all that stuff going forward.

But having my kids ripped out of my daily life is the worst part, far worse then being bankrupted.


----------



## workindad

tom67 said:


> She has really made the decision easy for you. Sad but it could have been worse.




OP, it could also get much worse in the future should you reconcile with her now.

You could end up with kids in the mix, that may or may not be yours paternity wise. However, you slice it, she deliberately and intentionally lied to you to bring another man into your home... right under your nose. She knew it was wrong from the get go. That is why she lied.

When you saw the recent texts, did she give him your address or directions? If not, he already knew where you lived. Think about that.

If you really do want to know, a polygraph and VAR are cheap investments, but I'm not sure you want to stick around anyway.

If you want to move, do the 180, get checked for STDS and see a lawyer ASAP. Put your time effort, and money in to moving forward.

Stay active while going thru the D. Also, be wary of alcohol. It hurt me more than it helped.


----------



## whowouldhavethought

workindad said:


> *When you saw the recent texts, did she give him your address or directions? If not, he already knew where you lived. Think about that.*


Good catch.

Also out her immediately to both sets of parents.

WWHT


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

whowouldhavethought said:


> Good catch.
> 
> Also out her immediately to both sets of parents.
> 
> WWHT


I definitely ensured all important parties know. I am going to have a longh discussion with my mother in law when I leave this afternoon to get out of town.

On the note of addresses, I did in fact notice she shared our address close in time to this incident. That means it was his first time over.

. I gamed her, though, on figuring out if she had been over to his place (the obvious option). I said "so you stop by his place because he lives on the way to work?" And she said "his place is not on the way to work!" Boy was that satisfying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

Makingsenseofthis said:


> I definitely ensured all important parties know. I am going to have a longh discussion with my mother in law when I leave this afternoon to get out of town.
> 
> On the note of addresses, I did in fact notice she shared our address close in time to this incident. That means it was his first time over.
> 
> . I gamed her, though, on figuring out if she had been over to his place (the obvious option). I said "so you stop by his place because he lives on the way to work?" And she said "his place is not on the way to work!" Boy was that satisfying.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well you know she's been at his place. I hope you send her packing to mils place
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lenzi

Makingsenseofthis said:


> she said "his place is not on the way to work!" Boy was that satisfying.


Glad you're satisfied with the small win, but that's like feeling good about the fly you swatted when a giant is about to step on your head.


----------



## southernsurf

Makingsenseofthis;4183730
. I gamed her said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/size]


Like I said she's not very smart or experienced. OM is probaby not there for a LTR only an easy bang
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lenzi

southernsurf said:


> Like I said she's not very smart or experienced. OM is probaby not there for a LTR only an easy bang


She's an easy bang because she slipped about knowing where his house was? Which means she's not smart?

A bit of a reach, me thinks.


----------



## Rugs

In your house while you were out!! 

That is soooooo disrespectful and IMO, unforgivable.

You have no kids but I can tell you thank your lucky stars you can get out of this marriage with no kids and are still young enough to start over.

I do not advise a reconciliation. 

Don't fall for her tears either.

You will be so much happier in the long run, I assure you. 

As Tom67 said, 


RUN!!!!!!!


----------



## camillaj

Where did your wife meet this guy or how does she know him? Old boyfriend?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Makingsenseofthis said:


> I think any more investigation into the incident is out of the question. I don't share a phone plan with her and she told me she deleted all other texts with this man because they made her feel gross. That felt like another lie.


You do what I did before I found TAM. You sit down, since she wants to work it out, record her conversation and ask for a timeline and the amount of contact. 

Once she pins it down say "Okay, we are going to order your past call records." Then check the number and see the frequency of contact. Also, like I did, I took her phone and texted for a password change from the online website. I erased the inbound call and checked the online records myself. It was not pretty and it has damaged our marriage. No, you won't see the content, but if she says we barely talk and you see 1,000 texts, she is gas-lighting you 100%. 

If she balks and makes any excuses, "too much money," "they don't hold them that long" or "no" it is time to reassess your marriage.


----------



## Will_Kane

Makingsenseofthis, you titled this thread "a complicated deceit-filled story" but actually this is pretty uncomplicated and straight-forward.

Cheaters are so predictable. We often joke that they have a cheater's manual, or a cheater's script, that they all read off of. You, for a recently betrayed spouse, have been very perceptive of some of the most obvious things that all cheaters do.

For one, it is amazing how juvenile they are in what they say/message to each other. It's like they have reverted back to sophomore or junior year in high school. They are so good at lying to hide the affair before you find out, then they can't come up with a half-decent lie to explain it after you find out.

I'm not sure if anyone pointed this out yet, but from what you've described of her behavior, she still is carrying on the affair hot and heavy, even while trying to do damage control with you. I would bet that she has seen him since you caught her. I absolutely guarantee you that she has been communicating with him constantly since, and it hasn't slowed down. Either she is doing it from school, work, the library, or a burner phone.

Betrayed spouses follow a script as well. You are better than most, but it is clear to me that deep down you are hoping that some piece of evidence, some fact, something is going to come to your attention and all of a sudden all of your wife's actions will magically seem to make sense, and you will feel relieved and silly that you thought she was cheating and she was not. THAT is not going to happen. You can't believe she did what she did, how juvenile, how she threw away your marriage for nothing, how she would lie so obviously.

Unfortunately, she really does think that you are believing her lies. See, what happened was that she got so used to telling you lies about the affair, about what she was doing (e.g., I'm having a girlfriend over and we're drinking the anniversary champagne, and you just believe it and leave), that she thinks you are stupid. To her, if you loved her, if you had a true connection to her, you would have been able to tell something was off. But you didn't. So now she thinks that you will believe any lie she tells you, because you believed all the lies she told you before you discovered the affair. To her there is no difference. She is not thinking that "well, now he doesn't trust me, so he will be skeptical of everything I tell him."

Continue to investigate. Let her deliver the phone records. Tell her you still are deciding whether or not you want to reconcile, then tell her if she has nothing to hide, she will give you her password and her phone. As well as her password to her email and any other accounts she has that you know about.

Tell her that you are considering asking her to take a polygraph, tell her that you will ask whether or not she had sex with this guy or any other since you've been married.

A voice-activated recorder is a good idea, in her car, and in the house where she would talk on the phone. You WILL get the truth this way, she IS talking to this guy, either using a burner phone, a chat application that doesn't show as phone usage, using a friend's phone, borrowing a family member's phone, using skype or facetime, or she is confiding in a friend about what really happened. The VAR is the number one way most betrayed spouses get the truth.


----------



## Will_Kane

Makingsenseofthis said:


> she said "he pays attention to me."


This is the number one excuse of cheating wives. "You don't pay enough attention to me, and he did."

In reality, "paying attention" to a woman is extremely important to most women. Many if not most men, especially younger men, seriously underestimate how important it is to "pay attention" to their woman, making her feel pretty, sexy, and sexually desired. Like you did BEFORE you got married and settled into a routine.

Men think they are showing their love by working hard, coming home every night, being loyal, providing a good home, pitching in with the chores. All good. But for many women, what they also need at least equally is to be "paid attention to," and frequently.

It is no excuse for cheating.


----------



## Will_Kane

Makingsenseofthis said:


> I asked about the friend, hoping she was okay. My wife proceeded to tell me the exact story that happened with this woman a year before. I said "that's odd, she is going through the same thing?" My wife clammed up. She was also furtively looking at her phone
> 
> I found _many _texts to a man. I confronted her and asked about this guy. She said "Who?"
> 
> Then I said, "I looked at your phone." She told me he was no one... we just flirt...
> 
> As I proceeded to walk out the front door, seething with anger, she said "he pays attention to me."
> 
> Over the course of the next several hours she gave me stories about how "he was going to come over, but then I changed my mind and called him at the last minute." Remember, there were no calls...
> 
> Some days have gone by, most recently I stopped by to talk to her (as I have been staying away) and the story evolved yet again. Now she has admitted he came over but "we didn't do anything, we just watched a movie and at one point he tried to kiss me."
> 
> For some _strange_ reason, I can't believe that this is the full story.


This is called "trickle truth." It trickles out, a piece at a time. Many posters will tell you that it wasn't the affair that killed their marriage, it was the lies and the trickle truth afterward. It can go on for six months, or more.

When the story does not make sense, that is because it is not true. When you get the truth, it all will make sense.

Of course, it is easy to see the truth in your situation, even if she won't tell you. There are only a few inconsequential details that are unknown or can't be easily surmised.

You know she has been carrying on with this guy at least since the end of school in late spring, and you know that they had sex at least once, and that it was planned. You can safely assume they still are in contact, that they still are telling each other how sexy the other is. You don't know it yet, but out here in cyberspace we all know it - she thinks she loves him. She will tell you soon that she loves you, but is not in love with you. This might be a good thing to bring up to her. Ask her, are you "in love" with me, or do you love me but are not "in love" with me?

You don't know, did he pursue her, or she him? Did they have sex more than once (even though she only gave her address recently, they could have had sex in one of their cars, maybe multiple times, maybe going back to when they were both in school - remember, these cheaters think and act like they are in high school when it comes to their affair). Are they still actually meeting up, or are they just keeping in touch via phone/email/etc.?


----------



## Will_Kane

Makingsenseofthis said:


> she did admit this was going on for about a month and started briefly after we returned from a vacation celebrating our first anniversary.


Cheaters minimize. That's a way of telling the truth, but still being able to lie about it. Key word: ABOUT.

This has been going on for ABOUT a month. 

Translation: The inappropriate texts started in February, they had sex in the car beginning in March. ABOUT a month. Meaning: Less than a year.

Cheaters don't actually like to lie about it, and try to avoid lying. It wouldn't be right to lie to your husband. So they tell "minimizations," which they rationalize are not really lies, because they are able to convince themselves that because it wasn't a full year, it was only going on for months, which really is only a bit of an exaggeration (not a lie) to say, ABOUT a month.

Another rationalization cheaters use is that they are minimizing it "to save you from being hurt." In their mind, they cheated, which hurts enough, what does it matter if it was one month or seven months.


----------



## Pepper123

*Re: Re: A complicated, deceit filled story. What now?*



Will_Kane said:


> Cheaters minimize. That's a way of telling the truth, but still being able to lie about it. Key word: ABOUT.
> 
> This has been going on for ABOUT a month.
> 
> Translation: The inappropriate texts started in February, they had sex in the car beginning in March. ABOUT a month. Meaning: Less than a year.
> 
> Cheaters don't actually like to lie about it, and try to avoid lying. It wouldn't be right to lie to your husband. So they tell "minimizations," which they rationalize are not really lies, because they are able to convince themselves that because it wasn't a full year, it was only going on for months, which really is only a bit of an exaggeration (not a lie) to say, ABOUT a month.
> 
> Another rationalization cheaters use is that they are minimizing it "to save you from being hurt." In their mind, they cheated, which hurts enough, what does it matter if it was one month or seven months.


Sadly this is 110% spot on...


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

Hi all, it is late and I am so exhausted by these 48 hours. I just want to update with he fact that she admitted today that they had a sexual encounter when he came over. I knew this, you all knew this, and now I am less focuses on investigating than I am making a decision that works for me. Try as I might, none but divorce sound realistic or intelligent.

For what it is worth, my 180 is in full swing, I am out of town with people who care deeply about me, and I am going to serve her Friday for a simple summary divorce. I've notified her family of the likelihood of that decision so they can take the steps to ensure the well being of her. I will spend the foreseeable future focusing on my own.

You have all been amazing. I thank you for your realness and respect and I now just have to keep chugging along. If anyone has advice for doing so, I am all ears.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

One year marriage.
No kids?

Get out, call a lawyer and file the papers.

Not worth the effort.

Edit:

Late again.


----------



## WyshIknew

Sorry it has come to this, but as you say everybody knew this had happened.

Has she explained what the hell was going through her mind? Apart from the paying attention crap?

Does she even have an inkling of what she has done? She asked her husband to leave the house so she could screw her affair partner.
Can you get anymore disrespectful?

You notified your family of your decision, did you inform them of the reason for your decision?
Were they supportive of you?

As for chugging along you will get good advice here. Just make sure you have something to do so you don't mope. You are probably quite busy with your studying anyway but try and make time for some physical exercise.
Many guys turn to weightlifting/gym to vent their grief and anger. Another used a punchbag and hit it repeatedly to try and break it.

Go out with friends, socialise even if you don't feel like it. Fake it till you make it.

Are there clubs and societies where you are studying? Join something that interests you.

All the above will help you detach from the situation and have the added benefit that it will piss your wife off to see you moving on without her.

You say OM is single, does he have a GF though? She needs to know what a shet he is if so.


----------



## azteca1986

Msot, just keep doing what you're doing. Print out the 180 and follow it. Concentrate on your studies and keeping good people around you.

What made her confess (the obvious)?



WyshIknew said:


> Does she even have an inkling of what she has done? She asked her husband to leave the house so she could screw her affair partner.
> Can you get anymore disrespectful?


Cracking open the first anniversary gift to celebrate.


----------



## WyshIknew

azteca1986 said:


> Msot, just keep doing what you're doing. Print out the 180 and follow it. Concentrate on your studies and keeping good people around you.
> 
> What made her confess (the obvious)?
> 
> Cracking open the first anniversary gift to celebrate.


Hell yea I forgot about that.

Gawd, the woman is either calculatingly cruel or clueless.


----------



## barbados

Makingsenseofthis said:


> Hi all, it is late and I am so exhausted by these 48 hours. I just want to update with he fact that she admitted today that they had a sexual encounter when he came over. I knew this, you all knew this, and now I am less focuses on investigating than I am making a decision that works for me. Try as I might, none but divorce sound realistic or intelligent.
> 
> For what it is worth, my 180 is in full swing, I am out of town with people who care deeply about me, and I am going to serve her Friday for a simple summary divorce. I've notified her family of the likelihood of that decision so they can take the steps to ensure the well being of her. I will spend the foreseeable future focusing on my own.
> 
> You have all been amazing. I thank you for your realness and respect and I now just have to keep chugging along. If anyone has advice for doing so, I am all ears.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are absolutely doing the right thing here. Kudos ! And I agree 100% about not focusing on any more investigating. You don't need it in your situation, you already have what you need to D and move on. At this point it just takes time away from you to focus on you.


----------



## Will_Kane

Makingsenseofthis said:


> she admitted today that they had a sexual encounter when he came over. I knew this, you all knew this, and now I am less focuses on investigating than I am making a decision that works for me. Try as I might, none but divorce sound realistic or intelligent._Posted via Mobile Device_


Married just over a year, there would have to be some extraordinary circumstance to justify her cheating in order for you to consider reconciling, especially with no kids involved.

What I found especially egregious in your case was how your wife planned it out to do it in your house, in your bed, and actually got you out of the house, opened the bottle of anniversary champagne right in front of you, then told you to call first to make sure she was done and other man was out the door. It's bad enough when you find out they were doing it in a hotel or in the other man's car. Plus, you read the texts and could see how giddy she sounded at the thought of it.

As much as it hurts, it could be worse. You are young with a bright future and there is nothing tying you to her. Sooner than you think, she will just be someone who you used to know.


----------



## workindad

Op you are making the right decision. It is a tough choice but she left you with little choice to do otherwise. 

Stay strong. Keep active. You will come out of this a better person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## manfromlamancha

You are making the right decision - this is a doomed marriage by any measure. However while I understand not needing to investigate further, I agree with WyshIKnew in that it would be useful to know what the hell was going through her mind during this extremely disrespectful act. This mainly for your own sake so that in future you can avoid this happening again in your choice of future partners. Good luck and strength to you!


----------



## Chaparral

Will_Kane said:


> Married just over a year, there would have to be some extraordinary circumstance to justify her cheating in order for you to consider reconciling, especially with no kids involved.
> 
> What I found especially egregious in your case was how your wife planned it out to do it in your house, in your bed, and actually got you out of the house, opened the bottle of anniversary champagne right in front of you, then told you to call first to make sure she was done and other man was out the door. It's bad enough when you find out they were doing it in a hotel or in the other man's car. Plus, you read the texts and could see how giddy she sounded at the thought of it.
> 
> As much as it hurts, it could be worse. You are young with a bright future and there is nothing tying you to her. Sooner than you think, she will just be someone who you used to know.


Actually, this sounds so bad because it was so inept. She might as well have put up a billboard. Her husbands trust is the only reason she got as far as she did.

I can believe it was the first time though. Champagne was the celebration kicker. He lives with his mommy and daddy. Not much chance of getting laid at home and, probably no money for a notell. Then again it just might have been the first time in a real bed.

Does she go out on GNOs?


----------



## Hicks

Do not get wrapped up in her insanity... Do a 180 and become as emotional as a police officer with her. For many reasons, divorce is your only answer here. You cannot build a marital foundation on this and go on to have children etc with this person. 

While things are bad, think about how much worse they could have been. Focus on the fact that you are blessed and lucky that you found out this now. Look through the stories of men with children, finances and entanglements... The laws are such that a cheating wife can get primary custody, child support, alimony from her husband...Let the positives of your situation run through your mind whenever you have trouble coping.


----------



## Disenchanted

Makingsenseofthis said:


> I just want to update with he fact that she admitted today that they had a sexual encounter when he came over


This is a blessing in disguise. I hope it provides enough closure for you to move on. I do not recommend further investigation.

I'm really sorry this happened and that you are here, it sucks.




Makingsenseofthis said:


> For what it is worth, my 180 is in full swing, I am out of town with people who care deeply about me, and I am going to serve her Friday for a simple summary divorce. I've notified her family of the likelihood of that decision so they can take the steps to ensure the well being of her. I will spend the foreseeable future focusing on my own.


All of this is very good, keep it up. Surround yourself with people that _actually care about you_. I also recommend printing out the 180 and really sticking to it for your own sanity.

Also, I have found the gym to be very helpful in releasing some of the awful emotions that come with all of this, lift heavy things my man. Again, sorry


----------



## Pepper123

MSOT I have nothing to add other than my deep condolences. Seriously the egregious nature of her callousness just completely blows my mind.


----------



## tulsy

Glad you decided to cut this cancer out of your life. You will be so much happier in the long run, because you would NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER be able to trust her again.


----------



## tom67

tulsy said:


> Glad you decided to cut this cancer out of your life. You will be so much happier in the long run, because you would NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER be able to trust her again.


I wonder what compelled her to release this information.


----------



## WyshIknew

tom67 said:


> I wonder what compelled her to release this information.


Probably her position became untenable. Ask your hubby to leave, invite a guy over, open champagne, spend a few hours with OM, naughty texts.

Even the dumbest arse has to see that they are busted.


----------



## Squeakr

tom67 said:


> I wonder what compelled her to release this information.


I hate to say it, but I wouldn't be surprised if she did it just to belittle the OP and make him feel bad. She hasn't really shown remorse when being caught. He had her dead to rights and she tells him that "he didn't appreciate her", after she had asked him to leave the house and call before coming back so she she could split the anniversary gift with her AP. She was rubbing it in his face the entire time and this just seems to be the icing on the cake. In my best Nickelson voice: "You want the truth??? You can't handle the truth....The fact is....." It is almost like she was rubbing his face in it and this is the final rub.


----------



## tom67

Squeakr said:


> I hate to say it, but I wouldn't be surprised if she did it just to belittle the OP and make him feel bad. She hasn't really shown remorse when being caught. He had her dead to rights and she tells him that "he didn't appreciate her", after she had asked him to leave the house and call before coming back so she she could split the anniversary gift with her AP. She was rubbing it in his face the entire time and this just seems to be the icing on the cake. In my best Nickelson voice: "You want the truth??? You can't handle the truth....The fact is....." It is almost like she was rubbing his face in it and this is the final rub.


Well he can hand her the divorce papers on friday. He family knows what she has done he should call the guy and say "hey guy she is all yours I'm done with her."


----------



## treyvion

WyshIknew said:


> Probably her position became untenable. Ask your hubby to leave, invite a guy over, open champagne, spend a few hours with OM, naughty texts.
> 
> Even the dumbest arse has to see that they are busted.


She disrespected your home, disrespected your marriage to her ( sharing the champaign bottle ), really took a crap on your entire life.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

You know her for past six yrs. You thought you know her. She had another side which you never saw or realised before Dday. She is now full. You know her now. 

The person she presented to you and a person who can lie without an eye lash, who can have an Affair right under your nose while condoning cheating, who can plan and execute affairs, who can make stories for make you quite, who can invite her OM to your home and use your marital bed for sex fest with OM, who can lie, lie and lie for ever. 

This is her complete side but are you ready to live with this new person knowing who she really is?

Dont think this was a mistake or a bad choice or you can change her, you canot change her but can accept who she is or run to the mountains and find some one who is truly worthy of your love.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Makingsenseofthis said:


> Hi all, it is late and I am so exhausted by these 48 hours. I just want to update with he fact that *she admitted today that they had a sexual encounter when he came over.* I knew this, you all knew this, and now I am less focuses on investigating than I am making a decision that works for me. Try as I might, none but divorce sound realistic or intelligent.
> 
> For what it is worth, my 180 is in full swing, I am out of town with people who care deeply about me, and I am going to serve her Friday for a simple summary divorce. I've notified her family of the likelihood of that decision so they can take the steps to ensure the well being of her. I will spend the foreseeable future focusing on my own.
> 
> You have all been amazing. I thank you for your realness and respect and I now just have to keep chugging along. If anyone has advice for doing so, I am all ears.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Any way its clear that this was not her first sex fest with this OM, It may have been going on for longer than she told you may be even before your marriage.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

azteca1986 said:


> Cracking open the first anniversary gift to celebrate.


Yes, this was terrible even if the wine was cheap. It is the sentimental value, not the monetary, of the wine. Good lord, how disrespectful and classless can you be?


----------



## ody360

Id count your blessings file and move on. No kids, mortgage. You should turn very cold towards her, id not look her in the face when you talk to her. **** it honestly id probably not talk to her at all any more. Yes you may have messed up some things on your end like the worrying about your feature with school and job and accidentally neglected her along the way. In the end no excuse for those actions. Just be thank full you don't have 2 kids a mortgage lots of credit card debt. File for a D and move on so she can go move in with the other guy who stills lives with his parents. 

Dude so sorry you are having to go through this. The emotional pain sucks. The longer you stick to your guns get away go and try your best to move on. That will be the best way to cope is keeping busy. Exercise eat properly and concentrate on yourself for now on. The more idol you set the harder it will be for you to try to get over. You will start to see the bullet you actually dodged here in the end. 

Time heals and reveals all truth eventually. The truth being no matter what, you did not deserve to be cheated on and you deserve better then that.


----------



## azteca1986

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes, this was terrible even if the wine was cheap. It is the sentimental value, not the monetary, of the wine. Good lord, how disrespectful and classless can you be?


It's the symbolism of the whole thing that gets me. Our present to celebrate our anniversary. She decides to open it on her own and then share it with someone who isn't her husband.

The only way should she could signal more clearly that something is seriously awry is if she had handed him her wedding ring on his way out.

Shocking.


----------



## carmen ohio

Makingsenseofthis said:


> Hi all, it is late and I am so exhausted by these 48 hours. I just want to update with he fact that she admitted today that they had a sexual encounter when he came over. I knew this, you all knew this, and now I am less focuses on investigating than I am making a decision that works for me. Try as I might, none but divorce sound realistic or intelligent.
> 
> For what it is worth, my 180 is in full swing, I am out of town with people who care deeply about me, and I am going to serve her Friday for a simple summary divorce. I've notified her family of the likelihood of that decision so they can take the steps to ensure the well being of her. I will spend the foreseeable future focusing on my own.
> 
> You have all been amazing. I thank you for your realness and respect and I now just have to keep chugging along. If anyone has advice for doing so, I am all ears.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dear Msot,

Up to now, you've done extremely well in dealing with this most difficult situation. Unlike most guys that come to TAM/CWI for help, your eyes were open to the reality of your situation, you kept your emotions in check, you understood and accepted the advice you received, you followed through to the point that you discovered what you needed to know about your WW's infidelity and you have made a rational decision on what to do (_i.e._, divorce). Now comes the hard part.

Over the next few weeks and months, you will experience many new, powerful and conflicting emotions. You will at times feel sorry for your WW and question your decision to divorce. At other times, you will be extremely angry, perhaps even to the point of wanting to get "revenge" against her or her lover. You may become depressed or even despondent for a while and, almost certainly, your self-esteem will take a nose dive.

Please understand that these are all normal reactions to the shock that you have suffered. Please also understand that, over time, all of these feelings will fade and you will eventually recover from them.

The best remedy to all of this is to focus your energy, thoughts and efforts on things that will make you a better person. This means improving your health (working out more, eating right and avoiding drugs or excessive use of alcohol), concentrating on productive activities like work and outside interests, and strengthening/developing your social network with family, old and new friends and, when you are ready, with females worthy of your interest.

Just understand that the hard work -- ending your marriage and moving on with your life -- is yet to be done.

Good luck.


----------



## Thorburn

Stay focused.


----------



## Squeakr

carmen ohio said:


> Unlike most guys that come to TAM/CWI for help.


This applies to both sexes and isn't just a guy thing.:smthumbup:


----------



## carmen ohio

Squeakr said:


> This applies to both sexes and isn't just a guy thing.:smthumbup:


Indeed it does, Squeakr. However, based on what I've seen on TAM/CWI, women generally handle betrayal better then men. Among other things, they more readily grasp the harm that it does to them and their families, they are more willing to end a bad marriage and they have an easier time moving on with their lives. Of course, part of this may be due to the fact that marriage laws in the western world better protect, and in some cases even favor, woman (especially SAHWs with children).


----------



## Squeakr

carmen ohio said:


> Indeed it does, Squeakr. However, based on what I've seen on TAM/CWI, women generally handle betrayal better then men. Among other things, they more readily grasp the harm that it does to them and their families, they are more willing to end a bad marriage and they have an easier time moving on with their lives. Of course, part of this may be due to the fact that marriage laws in the western world better protect, and in some cases even favor, woman (especially SAHWs with children).


:iagree: I was going to mention that the women are favored in the court system so they don't seem to lose as much or have as much at stake to lose (let's face it nobody is a winner, but generally the women fare better unless they are just off the deep end.)


----------



## harrybrown

Did she admit to more than one time?


----------



## Chaparral

,do not hesitate to see your GP for temporary meds. Also,I C with a counselor qualified to treat Ptsd is very much recommended. It really helps shorten the duration of recovery.


----------



## workindad

Get tested for STDs.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

carmen ohio said:


> Indeed it does, Squeakr. However, based on what I've seen on TAM/CWI, *women generally handle betrayal better then men. Among other things, they more readily grasp the harm that it does to them and their families, they are more willing to end a bad marriage and they have an easier time moving on with their lives.* Of course, part of this may be due to the fact that marriage laws in the western world better protect, and in some cases even favor, woman (especially SAHWs with children).


:iagree:

I agree with this but this is quite opposite of what I thought initially before coming to TAM.


----------



## camillaj

Makingsenseofthis, do you know how they met and if she knew him from before? Did they meet on your vacation?


----------



## bandit.45

I don't understand why you forgave her so quickly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Racer

bandit.45 said:


> I don't understand why you forgave her so quickly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He last post was this several pages ago while the rest chatter on.


Makingsenseofthis said:


> Hi all, it is late and I am so exhausted by these 48 hours. I just want to update with he fact that she admitted today that they had a sexual encounter when he came over. I knew this, you all knew this, and now I am less focuses on investigating than I am making a decision that works for me. *Try as I might, none but divorce sound realistic or intelligent.*
> 
> For what it is worth, my 180 is in full swing, I am out of town with people who care deeply about me, and *I am going to serve her Friday for a simple summary divorce. I've notified her family of the likelihood of that decision so they can take the steps to ensure the well being of her. I will spend the foreseeable future focusing on my own.*
> You have all been amazing. I thank you for your realness and respect and I now just have to keep chugging along. If anyone has advice for doing so, I am all ears.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Racer said:


> He last post was this several pages ago while the rest chatter on.


Ah. Thanks man. I should go back and re-take my speed reading course.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

Hi guys,

My last update (which Racer so kindly posted) is the extent of the important and relevant news that would change or alter this situation.

I have not been great about not talking to her, even while I am out of town she is constantly trying to communicate. I can say that she is showing all of the signs of remorse, not doing any more rug sweeping, and is generally handling this gracefully (for whatever that is worth).

Regardless of this, I believe I am still choosing divorce. I will be back home tomorrow evening, when I will discuss these things and take one more step to further cement the already solid decision I've made. I intend to recover all of the deleted text messages, her only form of communication with this guy, and read them. I don't think this will make me feel comfortable, but I know it will give me the last ounce of strength to know that I have made the correct decision.

I haven't learned anything more about the affair from my WW. She maintains that Sunday was her one and only sexual encounter with OM. I take solace in the fact that this is no longer a foggy mess, but little else.

On a side note, I am currnelty staying in a college town and I already notice myself looking at other women (I was very faithful and my eyes rarely wandered). I think this may be unhealthy this early, but it gives me hope that I'm not desperately lost on this person so willing to betray me. I think I will have no trouble moving on, I just have to do it correctly.

For my benefit, I will post the results of tomorrow's discussion sometime this weekend. While many of you have just stopped in to help or look or put in a good piece of advice, I feel as if everyone here was there for me. So I thank you so much.


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

carmen ohio said:


> Please understand that these are all normal reactions to the shock that you have suffered. Please also understand that, over time, all of these feelings will fade and you will eventually recover from them.
> 
> The best remedy to all of this is to focus your energy, thoughts and efforts on things that will make you a better person. This means improving your health (working out more, eating right and avoiding drugs or excessive use of alcohol), concentrating on productive activities like work and outside interests, and strengthening/developing your social network with family, old and new friends and, when you are ready, with females worthy of your interest.
> 
> Just understand that the hard work -- ending your marriage and moving on with your life -- is yet to be done.
> 
> Good luck.


This is all very helpful. I've already been in the gym pretty often. I've been running and riding a bike. I am staying near a beautiful river, and that is helping me calm myself.

I am working at a new place and have informed the relevant supervisors of my situation so that they don't think I am a heroin addict (I look a mess, sadly, and my voice comes and goes).

I realize the marriage isn't yet over and my life has not picked back up, but I know those things will happen soon and it gives me something to look forward to. There are no silver linings here, but the clouds will clear eventually I hope.


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

Disenchanted said:


> All of this is very good, keep it up. Surround yourself with people that _actually care about you_. I also recommend printing out the 180 and really sticking to it for your own sanity.
> 
> Also, I have found the gym to be very helpful in releasing some of the awful emotions that come with all of this, lift heavy things my man. Again, sorry


Disenchanted, if you are still around, I have a question:

When you say print out the 180, what does that mean? I am supposed to create something and have it tangible? As it is, I just made a plan to do X, Y, Z. I thought that was a 180. Am I getting it wrong?


----------



## Jasel

I don't think we're allowed to put the 180 here because it's actually copyrighted but if you google "the 180 infidelity" it isn't too hard to find.


----------



## Makingsenseofthis

Found it. 

That would have been a good opportunity to use "http://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+180+infidelity" - but you probably know in my fragile state I wouldn't have taken the joke too well!

Kudos Jasel.


----------



## Disenchanted

Glad you found it.

The 180 saved my life.


----------



## Dyokemm

Makingsense,

Have you found out anything about this POS yet?

Your immediate serving of papers and rejection are appropriate consequences for your foolish WW.

She will probably have regrets over how she destroyed the best thing in her life for as long as she lives.

But this scumbag POS needs to feel some pain for the fact that he came into your life, a total stranger who had never wronged him, and helped participate in destroying your world.

Return the favor, expose this POS in any manner possible. Cheaterville, work HR if he is a co-worker.

Find out if s**tbag is in a M or committed relationship. Expose to his BW/GF if he is.

He filled your life with pain, and ruined it for at least a temporary period of time.

Return the favor with plenty of interest.


----------



## Racer

Dyokemm said:


> Have you found out anything about this POS yet?
> ..
> But this scumbag POS needs to feel some pain for the fact that he came into your life, a total stranger who had never wronged him, and helped participate in destroying your world..


I've never quite understood this take. There will always be multiple POS's around and lurking. Kill one and several hundred thousand will take his place. Statistically, 50% of marriages (or something like that) suffer from infidelity so at least a quarter of the population are POS's. The key is having a spouse that also see's them and isn't at all interested.

He's divorcing. Time to detach and move on rather than suck himself in deeper.


----------



## Disenchanted

The less space OM has in any BH's mind the better.

Easier said than done, but it's true.


----------



## Squeakr

Racer said:


> I've never quite understood this take. There will always be multiple POS's around and lurking. Kill one and several hundred thousand will take his place. Statistically, 50% of marriages (or something like that) suffer from infidelity so at least a quarter of the population are POS's. The key is having a spouse that also see's them and isn't at all interested.
> 
> He's divorcing. Time to detach and move on rather than suck himself in deeper.


I can see both sides, but I agree with the get even philosophy. It's the same supposedly with religion and politics as they aren't supposed to cause issues either and be a freedom of choice in the US. I went overseas several times to defend our country when these same issues were deemed a "threat" to the US because some country was having an internal strife. We are supposed to be an example of goodwill and ambassadorship, yet I have been sent over there to "nose" into issues that had nothing to do with the US and affected us not one bit. Getting involved is the American way and not turning the other cheek like we should.


----------



## Squeakr

Disenchanted said:


> The less space OM has in any BH's mind the better.
> 
> Easier said than done, but it's true.


This is so true it should be a gospel, but it is hard to place into practice.


----------



## WyshIknew

Racer said:


> I've never quite understood this take. There will always be multiple POS's around and lurking. Kill one and several hundred thousand will take his place. Statistically, 50% of marriages (or something like that) suffer from infidelity so at least a quarter of the population are POS's. The key is having a spouse that also see's them and isn't at all interested.
> 
> He's divorcing. Time to detach and move on rather than suck himself in deeper.


I understand, but where do you draw the line?

What is your hill to die on?


I'd rather that a potential OM knew that the last OM went through a world of pain for effing up my life.


----------



## Dyokemm

Racer and Disenchanted,

Different personalities and viewpoints I guess. I certainly would never judge you for having a different opinion.

And maybe OP shares your view and that is fine. He only has to do what is necessary for himself to move on.

Personally, I would never allow another man to screw with my life in any way (not just infidelity) without seeking revenge/payback.

Do not F with me. I do not injure or offend others when they have done nothing to me and I DEMAND the same in return.

I refuse to accept others' crappy actions towards me, and someone who wrongs me is stupid if they think I won't retaliate.

If I did just 'let it go', then I would feel weak and pathetic because I just sat there and accepted the abuse of others.

I just have too much pride and self-respect to do that.

But I certainly don't think those with other views are 'wrong' or 'weak' just because they would react differently.


----------



## Dyokemm

I guess the moral of the story for some POS AP's should be that they really better take care about who they F with.

It is definitely true that there are some people in this world that you definitely NEVER want to screw with because you will end up seriously regretting it and hurting in various ways yourself.

Its a caveat emptor life situation for them, and they better be prepared for the hatred and retribution that will rain down on their heads.


----------



## Disenchanted

I get you my friend.

My point is that my wife's OM didn't do anything to me, he had no contract or agreement with me. He did it to her.

She broke our agreement, she's the one who did something wrong to me. This is not to say that I don't think about "revenge" now and then. But acting out revenge would do nothing to benefit me whatsoever so it's an unhealthy position in my opinion.

ETA pride is one of the 7 deadly sins for a reason


----------



## Disenchanted

And believe me, if any man wanted to take revenge. 

My neighbor befriended my children (they looked up to him and told me about him all the time while he was recovering in traction in his house) and came to my house acting as if he were my friend, drinking my beer and enjoying my hospitality. Shook my hand and pretended to have honor. Acted like he was my friend.

And he was banging my wife at the time.

He still lives there. I still live across the street from him (luckily we can't see each other's houses). He got hit by a car in front of my family and my wife started taking care of him while I was at work, against my wishes.

His shin bones have both been replaced by titanium rods because of the accident. I visualize ripping those rods from his body and crushing his skull with them almost every day. 

But just being here is making this man's life a living hell. I don't need to nor will I ever do anything to him. He's a pathetic rat and his life is hell without any interference on my part.


----------



## aug

Another reason to do so is that your wife or ex-wife knows with certainty that you will. And she can wear that forever.


----------



## Disenchanted

I don't give a sh!t about anything that hoar thinks.

The best revenge is a life well lived.

The faster a BS can move on in life and leave all of the bullsh!t in the past the happier that person will be.


----------



## Racer

WyshIknew said:


> What is your hill to die on?


Maybe it’s a slightly different take. My WW is attractive. I want to get in her pants and am quite aware others men would want the same. It’s just always been that way (well at least until recently, but that’s a different story). 


Loyalty is my hill, where that line is drawn, and trenches are dug. They owed me nothing, she owed me everything. 

I don’t forgive them. No reason to. It just isn’t worth my time or energy to bother trying to figure them out. For the OP chasing down some dude living with his Mom doesn’t sound productive at all. Keep on working out, thinking about where his life is going, and checking out all those college girls who are giving him winks. Sounds much better than stalking around some loser and figuring out how to make him cry; he’s already a loser. Let his stbxw stew that she went for a momma’s boy than a man she had. What better vengeance is there? She lost him... he is the prize that got away. 

And he is most definitely better than her. Why flounder around in the bottom of the well with those people instead of climbing out?


----------



## Dyokemm

Disenchanted,

No problems with how you decided to handle it. I really mean it when I said everyone has to do what feels right to them.

I did laugh a little about the seven deadly sins remark though, and not in in any way to diminish or disrespect what is obviously a sincere belief on your part.

I laughed because it reminded me of how far I have come in my own personal journey.

I was raised very religious, but I no longer believe at all.

I would classify myself as an agnostic.

I think I have more of an old school pagan view on how to deal with this s**t.


----------



## Disenchanted

I'm not religious either, but there is a lot more behind these ideas than some outdated dogma. 

Same with the 10 commandments (7th comes to mind). 

I have no fear of spending an eternity burning in everlasting hell. I just don't want to make my own life hell and that is the significance of these rules to me.

There is never any way to "get even" with an OM. 

Moving on is the best thing a BS can do for himself.


----------



## WyshIknew

Disenchanted said:


> I'm not religious either, but there is a lot more behind these ideas than some outdated dogma.
> 
> Same with the 10 commandments (7th comes to mind).
> 
> I have no fear of spending an eternity burning in everlasting hell. I just don't want to make my own life hell and that is the significance of these rules to me.
> 
> There is never any way to "get even" with an OM.
> 
> Moving on is the best thing a BS can do for himself.


However you did put OM on Cheaterville Dis.

Isn't that revenge of a sort?

That is what I'm talking about.

Cheaterville, expose to his family and work, or anyone relevant.

Then walk away with a big eff off cheesy smile on my face.


----------



## Disenchanted

This is going to probably piss a lot of people off here at TAM, but I'm going to say it anyway.

Yes I put OM on cheaterville. But it has done absolutely nothing, not one thing, to benefit me personally, honestly.

And like I said when I did it, it wouldn't phase me for a second if someone put me on there. Who cares, certainly not some jack ass who doesn't understand how sleeping with married women hurts him more then it does anyone else.

Sorry.


----------



## Racer

Oh, and just so folks know... One of my wife's OM's pulled the trigger on his life. Doesn't mean I felt any better or worse about the situation. So I'm basically saying. Even if there lives go to total garbage and travesty, there just isn't much satisfaction gained that lasts. He still hooked your wife and you know she let him. Nothing undoes that hurt, even death.


----------



## Disenchanted

Sleeping with an absolutely gorgeous woman half my WW's age on the other hand, now that helped me *a lot*.



(I don't recommend this for any man's whose WW is younger then 36)


----------



## Chaparral

Disenchanted said:


> I get you my friend.
> 
> My point is that my wife's OM didn't do anything to me, he had no contract or agreement with me. He did it to her.
> 
> She broke our agreement, she's the one who did something wrong to me. This is not to say that I don't think about "revenge" now and then. But acting out revenge would do nothing to benefit me whatsoever so it's an unhealthy position in my opinion.
> 
> ETA pride is one of the 7 deadly sins for a reason


If a man walked up and slapped you across the face, what would you do?

What if he slapped your child?


----------



## Chaparral

Disenchanted said:


> This is going to probably piss a lot of people off here at TAM, but I'm going to say it anyway.
> 
> Yes I put OM on cheaterville. But it has done absolutely nothing, not one thing, to benefit me personally, honestly.
> 
> And like I said when I did it, it wouldn't phase me for a second if someone put me on there. Who cares, certainly not some jack ass who doesn't understand how sleeping with married women hurts him more then it does anyone else.
> 
> Sorry.


How exactly does it hurt he om? You mean when he's drinking with his buddies and telling them how he banged this neighbor woman , she got caught and ended up divorced and then they all laughed until they were spitting up their beer?


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## Dyokemm

Disenchanted and Racer,

Just want to reiterate, I have no problem with your view and would defend you if someone criticized your choices and opinions.

It is a very personal choice in my opinion, and I actually appreciate hearing the views of those who think differently.

It always prompts me to self-reflect and I think there are few things that are more important for us to do as individuals.

If OP comes back and says he agrees with your position and could give a F about this POS, then I wouldn't spend a single breath trying to convince him he's wrong.

lol....of course if he said he wanted to ruin the POS's life I would totally support that too.


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## Dyokemm

Chaparral,

I think if Disenchanted is at peace with how he handled it and the way it played out, then all of us should support that as his choice.

We might handle things completely differently, but at least we can give 100% support to a fellow TAMer who just wants to walk a different path.


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## treyvion

Racer said:


> Maybe it’s a slightly different take. My WW is attractive. I want to get in her pants and am quite aware others men would want the same. It’s just always been that way (well at least until recently, but that’s a different story).
> 
> 
> Loyalty is my hill, where that line is drawn, and trenches are dug. They owed me nothing, she owed me everything.
> 
> I don’t forgive them. No reason to. It just isn’t worth my time or energy to bother trying to figure them out. For the OP chasing down some dude living with his Mom doesn’t sound productive at all. Keep on working out, thinking about where his life is going, and checking out all those college girls who are giving him winks. Sounds much better than stalking around some loser and figuring out how to make him cry; he’s already a loser. Let his stbxw stew that she went for a momma’s boy than a man she had. What better vengeance is there? She lost him... he is the prize that got away.
> 
> And he is most definitely better than her. Why flounder around in the bottom of the well with those people instead of climbing out?


Your not "floundering" down there. You are being "crabbed" downward by people who know they don't want you to make any progress.  That's why they say crabs in a barrel. If you are in there, you are being actively "crabbed" downward or at best held in position.


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## lenzi

Dyokemm said:


> If I did just 'let it go', then I would feel weak and pathetic because I just sat there and accepted the abuse of others.
> 
> I just have too much pride and self-respect to do that.


True only if you took back the cheater without him or her suffering any consequences.

Not true if you simply got up and walked out of their life. 

Petty revenge tactics like "posting on Cheaterville" and running around doing other meaningless things to try to make the cheater and the affair partner miserable are nothing more than childish games. A person who goes around doing these things does appear pathetic, because in truth, they are. 

A person with pride and self respect will not waste an ounce of their own time or energy on the cheater. They will walk away from the cheater and the OM/OW forever, perhaps without saying another word to either one of them, and live their own life. And they'll be healthier, and happier and end up with someone worthy of their time and affection. 

That's the best "revenge".


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## Disenchanted

Chaparral said:


> How exactly does it hurt he om? You mean when he's drinking with his buddies and telling them how he banged this neighbor woman , she got caught and ended up divorced and then they all laughed until they were spitting up their beer?


Maybe you should become a playwright Chap, lol.


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## Dyokemm

lenzi,

I agree on kicking the WS to the curb hard and forever.

We will just have to agree to disagree about ruining the f'ing POS AP, my friend.

As I said, infidelity or whatever the unprovoked injury is, that POS will always get theirs back in some way if they screw with me.

And its fine if you disagree with that stance. You have every right to believe and act as you wish, and I would never question it. 

In fact I would approve it if it was the path you felt was right for you.

All I'm saying, is I would choose a different path and see things differently than you, I guess.


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## Shaggy

If no one ever holds accountable POSOM, then they just happily move on to the next family to ruin.

One of the big reasons to put the OM on cheaterville is to help the next bloke who's wife says the same OM is just a friend. Cheaterville turns up when you do a google search on the scumbags name!


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## WyshIknew

Dyokemm said:


> lenzi,
> 
> I agree on kicking the WS to the curb hard and forever.
> 
> We will just have to agree to disagree about ruining the f'ing POS AP, my friend.
> 
> As I said, infidelity or whatever the unprovoked injury is, that POS will always get theirs back in some way if they screw with me.
> 
> And its fine if you disagree with that stance. You have every right to believe and act as you wish, and I would never question it.
> 
> In fact I would approve it if it was the path you felt was right for you.
> 
> All I'm saying, is I would choose a different path and see things differently than you, I guess.


I totally agree with this and if indeed a betrayed spouse can 'walk away' from the marriage with hardly a word and to all intents and purposes the next contact is divorce papers then great.

What I can't wrap my head around is this sort of scenario.

Maybe it is something wrong with me? Although I suspect that you would be very much like me Dyokemm.

Let's say OM is a successful man, a pillar of society, has a nice house/s, a beautiful wife, kids, two cars, has expensive holidays, etc etc.

Yet he still feels the need to destroy your life by bedding your wife.
I wouldn't care that there are hundreds of possible OM's, they didn't do it, he did.

I wouldn't care that my wife was the one that made vows to me, he also at any time could have said "No, you're married."

So yes, walk away without a backward glance and find someone worthy of you.

But leave OM in his perfect marriage, holidays, cars etc while you go through various degrees of grief, and spend thousands of pounds on divorce?

No Fng way. I'm gonna take that Mfer down.

And I'm not talking about obsessing and stalking and being pathetic either.

Short, sharp and to the point. At the very least let his wife know and share your evidence.


Expose where necessary.


Then walk away.


Pathetic? I don't think so. YMMV.


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## Dyokemm

Wysh,

Knocking out a few front teeth if you can find him in a dark alley would be nice too.


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## WyshIknew

Dyokemm said:


> Wysh,
> 
> Knocking out a few front teeth if you can find him in a dark alley would be nice too.


I don't know that I would offer violence. If I was attacked first I would defend myself, and if I was taunted I would find it difficult to hold back but you can't go around assaulting people as good as that would feel.

Yes I told a man who was sniffing round my wife when we had our 'troubles' that I would give him a lump if he made any more moves on my wife but that was 20 + years ago. The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there.


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## Disenchanted

If I did anything to OM ever it would end with his death.

That's why I don't advocate it.


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## WyshIknew

Disenchanted said:


> If I did anything to OM ever it would end with his death.
> 
> That's why I don't advocate it.


Yep, just pay 'em back in kind.


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