# Fight club



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ok, some folks got me talking in another thread but instead I decided not to threadjack anymore. So for all folks engaged in martial arts, let's have it out.

Which martial arts have you found to be effective? Which do you recommend to your children? Which offer your children sufficient guidance in learning discipline and restraint in self-defence? Are non-contact martial arts useless in your opinion? (It is in my opinion - discuss!)

That kind of thing... Or if fighters yourselves, let's share stories! This is fight-club, mead hall, warrior's gathering, whatever you wanna call it  Besides, talking about more manly endeavours saves me whining about my STBX and my miserable life lol


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

you broke rules 1 and 2


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Bah!

-.-


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Should be interesting. In my experience, people always think what they are doing or have been exposed to is the best.

I took Judo and Kenpo Karate for about a year. 

I loved Judo. High contact – little risk of injury. And it is an Olympic sport. Primary purpose is to get someone on the ground – which in self-defense can be a good first step. Even if I had progressed further, I’m not sure an armbar is really the best way to defend yourself in a street fight.

Kenpo was very different. Very practical and geared towards self-defense. Thought it was great for my girls to learn that if a guy grabs you – the first thing you often want to do is kick him in his groin. We spent most of our time learning and practicing techniques that required us to “pull” our punches and kicks. Compared to Judo there was very little contact – unless someone didn’t pull a punch – and then you’d end up with someone and sitting out the rest of class with an ice pack.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Seems to come down to four things

Attitude

Size

Fitness Level

Technique

In that order.

You can probably learn Monkey Scrotum Tai Chi and if you are aggressive, big and fit enough, you can do some serious damage.

Of course, better technique that that is...um...better.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Krav Maga or Jeet Kune Do

Too many places are nothing but belt mills.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

For kids...again, I like anything without belts per se. It's too much of a focus for a kid. "I want to be Green Belt next week" or "I didn't 'pass' my belt test".

How about studying the "Do" of the system? How about understanding the history of the system? That's what I teach my son. My daughter has zero interest at the moment. I have studied martial arts for 30 years. 

"No-contact" martial arts like Yin or Yang Tai Chi and Qi'gong are excellent IMO because they're about movement first.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Krav Maga or Jeet Kune Do
> 
> Too many places are nothing but belt mills.


:iagree:
Krav Maga is awesome.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

TiggyBlue said:


> :iagree:
> Krav Maga is awesome.


Use anything and everything for self defense. You can knock someone out with a magazine. No sh-t.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Krav Maga comes highly recommended, but I wonder whether it's something I would want my child to learn - it seems rather lethal compared to other martial arts, not surprising considering its origins in the IDF. 

What are the philosophical aspects of it; does it teach respect? discipline? integrity? restraint? These factors I'm also considering when it comes to my daughter's training in the future. I agree that a belt system isn't very effective (but doesn't krav maga have one?), and non-contact sparring? I can't agree to that either.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Everyone at my house, kids and adults, practice *Aikido*.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

It really depends on why they take it. I took Karate when I was a kid and it gave me confidence and conditioning.

But f you are looking for self-defense, I'd have them take anything that DOESN'T involve wrestling. If they are in a situation where it's them vs. 1+, the ground isn't where they want to be.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Well, RD...I guess I wasn't taking children fully into the consideration of Krav Maga.

Aikido, as Red Sonja practices, is a martial art that my Uncle used to teach. Very ancient and disciplined. If I were to choose a school for my children it would something like Aikido. The art teaches calmness. Aikido is works with the practitioner being relaxed and "quiet". It is a defensive art that is predicated upon BEING attacked rather than attacking.

You'll be hard pressed to find schools today that do NOT have a belt system. That said, as long as the school, teacher and you - the parent, are not focused on the belt so much as the art, then your child will do well.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Agreed on ground fighting, hence I'm wary about my daughter joining her mum in the future with JJJ, ground-fighting is useless on the street. However, she is female, meaning ground fighting techniques can be used if she's pinned down by an attacker. So I'm not ruling it out completely even if I never found a use for it.

I'm a grappler myself btw, and not all wrestling involves the ground. I'm wary about my daughter learning striking martial arts while I spent years perfecting my grappling techniques so I would stop going back to court! That's the other factor that makes me wonder which is best for my daughter to learn.

@SomedayDig

Hmmm, defensive techniques eh? Guess that would be a start. Calmness is important as well, not just outside of combat but also during it. People taunt and make people come at them stupid for that very same reason. But at the moment my daughter is encountering no problems, she has good friends in and out of school and is living a very peaceful life, but she's young, once she hits primary I expect she will encounter trouble, and I want to be able to guide her through it.

Sure, she's not a son, but she's my only child and heir, and my people still uphold our cultural traditions - I will not allow her to be bullied, in fact I would encourage her to fight back. I just don't want her to get in too much trouble, or to grow up with a violent mentality.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

I brought my son into "the big three" in my opinion.

Kyokushin taught by Shihan Fujiwara. This was great for striking in tight spaces and maximizing damage with minimal motions. More importantly nothing taught him better discipline.

Full contact Judo. 

Free style Wrestling.

My son has grown up to be a very mild mannered, well behaved soft spoken kid. BUT his freshman year in school (my son was 5'6" and 135lbs at the time) was targeted by a bully (senior who was over 6' and 260). First we got called to the principal because the attempts at bullying (I say it that way for a reason as you'll see) were reported by a girl who didnt like seeing my son "being picked on". So we're sitting in the principal's office and he goes into "we have to call everyone in blah blah" My son says "He can do what he wants, if he crosses the line, I'll kick his ass". To the principal.

Well about a week later, the kid "crossed the line" at my sons locker. He arm barred the kid, took him to the ground, put him in a rear naked choke hold and made the kid apologize to him, and also to every other kid he had been bullying...Individually by name. Then made the kid promise to be a better person. After he released. He let the kid start to get up and gave him a kidney shot. He bent over looked at the kid in the eye and says to him "I mean it, you better hold up your end or we'll be here again".

Was one of my proudest days. I also was proud because he didn't come home and make a big issue about it. He had zero intention of even saying anything. My neice (who is in the same grade) told me the story.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

^ Heh I would be hell proud too!

Grappling is effective for that one reason - you can disable and humiliate your opponent, proving yourself superior without causing damage that can land your ass in jail. Your son looks like he's got it covered for life if he keeps it up.


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## bbdad (Feb 11, 2013)

I have studied combat arts for many years. I did the traditional styles of TKD and a few Okinawan styles. I thought I was decent enough and could handle myself in most situations. Thankfully, it was never needed. However, about 8 years ago, I got the bug for Brazilian JiuJitsu and then 6 months after that, I also started Muay Thai.

I will say that I was surprised at how little combat effective the previous arts I had studied were. BJJ is great if you end up on the ground. MT is great if you can keep it standing.

I would like to get my daughters into BJJ, Judo or even just freestyle wrestling until about age 16. At that point, I would like to get them to also do MT or western boxing. My wife does not agree with that...yet...so we have them in traditional arts, but they are still young.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

My sister is an Aikido black belt 
Daughter does Tae Kwon Do
Both teach excellent discipline I think


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

bbdad said:


> I have studied combat arts for many years. I did the traditional styles of TKD and a few Okinawan styles. I thought I was decent enough and could handle myself in most situations. Thankfully, it was never needed. However, about 8 years ago, I got the bug for Brazilian JiuJitsu and then 6 months after that, I also started Muay Thai.
> 
> I will say that I was surprised at how little combat effective the previous arts I had studied were. BJJ is great if you end up on the ground. MT is great if you can keep it standing.
> 
> I would like to get my daughters into BJJ, Judo or even just freestyle wrestling until about age 16. At that point, I would like to get them to also do MT or western boxing. My wife does not agree with that...yet...so we have them in traditional arts, but they are still young.


What your describing as a plan was pretty much what my son did.

Basic youth karate at 5. Saw it was a belt factory, pulled him out 2 months later. Put him in Judo at a place with discipline, honor and technique at its core. He got into free style wrestling at 7. Stopped wrestling at 12, got into Kyokushin at 12. He's a blackbelt in Judo and a 3rd kyu in Kyokushin (2nd level Green, just before brown). I wouldn't change the path he took at all. It kept him grounded and he's a great kid today.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I'm a master of the ancient art of Pisowda. Basically, you take an axe handle and beat the piss outta someone.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Muay Thai is definitely effective, as it uses elbow and knee strikes which to be honest; are the only strikes effective on the street - but that's just my experience. I've rarely had punches and kicks cause enough damage. If properly trained sure, but meh.

In the past I always just dived straight in, didn't even bother with countering a punch or a kick unless it was coming at my weak points such as my solar plex, face, groin, etc. But that was only due to the majority of amateur fighters. Trained strikers when I underestimated them always got the upper hand with me - at least the first time.

Me, I just needed to get in range for a grapple or an elbow or a knee or a combination. But that's how I got into trouble with the law when I turned legit because elbow/knee strikes cause enough damage to be sued over. Hence now I'm restricted to grappling. I have to admit though, the brawls at nightclubs were the most chaotic. You could hardly see what was coming with the lighting and little room to manuever yet plenty of weapons. I just got into "kill everything in sight" mode until I heard a familiar voice to stop me. I'd like to think my aggressive nature kept me alive all those years but maybe it was just chance.



> I'm a master of the ancient art of Pisowda. Basically, you take an axe handle and beat the piss outta someone.


Heh I still remember when I was in my teens at 12, kicking out trolley bars at shopping centers to use as lead pipes. Funny thing was that by the time I turned 16, they started learning how to screw them in! Ha! I'd like to think it had something to do with us little rebels.

Anyways you guys started your children at 5? My daughter is nearing her birthday, looks like my decision can't be procastinated too long then it seems... *sigh* decisions decisions.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

Both my daughters and now my 8 year old son did / do 2 - 3 years of Judo and enjoyed / benefited from the discipline / self confidence that their instructors gave them. I dare say the youngest will follow when he gets bigger.

As my eldest son (now 13) is disabled and spends most of his time in a wheel chair he has been unable to take part in martial arts (we have not found an instructor you can adapt anything for him.

For myself I boxed and did karate as a child and was later taught Defendo in the military but I would not recommend that for children as it is too aggressive (lethal) for street use except in the most desperate of situation.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

My youngest son did Karate for several years... he only stopped because he so wanted to get into team sports, Football and Baseball. The most positive thing I can say is that it taught him mental toughness. 

As for me, I grew up doing judo, as I got older I did Kendo for a while. I only stopped doing Kendo due to all injuries. Basically judo is great for teaching self defense. Kendo really has no applicable self defense skills, but requires mental toughness. My recommendation for Kendo is primarily if you are interested in Samurai culture. 

http://youtu.be/AJz2-c12GSw


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

coffee4me said:


> My daughter started Tae Kwon Do when she was 6, she continues to study at 11. She earned her blackbelt last year after 5 years of continuous study and a 12 hour test. For my daughter reaching this long term goal it is one of her greatest mental and physical achievements. *Choosing the right school is key.*
> 
> She has learned confidence, self discipline, perserverance and the physical conditioning lends itself to some of her other activiities.


Had to bold that. It is TRULY the most important thing to this. 

If the head of the school is eager to give belts...walk out. If they seem hesitant about the issue of rewarding belts....that's the one to go to.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Had to bold that. It is TRULY the most important thing to this.
> 
> If the head of the school is eager to give belts...walk out. If they seem hesitant about the issue of rewarding belts....that's the one to go to.


That is the thing about Kendo... no belts. In fact most dojos I know you are not even allow to purchase your bogu (protective gear) for at least a year. You have to pay your dues in understanding rei (respect and honor). When you go up against someone you quickly find out if they are at the level of dan (equivalent of black belt). Your ability to increase in rank is not just about skill but about understanding of the Samurai spirit.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

http://youtu.be/pNOHtBOMeUY

http://youtu.be/de6umoFjDMo


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

FIRST RULE about fight club is never admit you wasted an hr and a half watching that crappy movie...........so nope never seen it


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> For kids...again, I like anything without belts per se. It's too much of a focus for a kid. "I want to be Green Belt next week" or "I didn't 'pass' my belt test".
> 
> How about studying the "Do" of the system? How about understanding the history of the system? That's what I teach my son. My daughter has zero interest at the moment. I have studied martial arts for 30 years.
> 
> "No-contact" martial arts like Yin or Yang Tai Chi and Qi'gong are excellent IMO because they're about movement first.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

my kids took jiu jitso and while it is great for self defense there was way too much worrying about when they would get there next belt.


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## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

For me, it's always been Judo. (As a consequence, my striking techniques are very under-developed - it's not that they're not actually _in_ Judo, but just that they're never practiced, and hence remain under-developed - the same way that Karate does have throws, but they're not the focus.)

I would have to say, never rule out learning grappling - it gives you so many options - however it's not the only thing you should learn either. Grappling on the ground against multiple opponents is a Bad Plan (tm) - but many one on one fights do end up on the ground, and so it's as well to know what you're doing - even if only so as to be able to get back to your feet quickly before their friend joins in ....

IMO (ok, HO) Judo does have many upsides - fitness, timing, self-discipline, huge range of techniques against opponents of varying sizes/builds - and it it is very effective, and you know it - once you've managed to throw to the ground, and strangle or lock-out someone who is bigger than you, who is resisting fully, and has a good level of fitness and training, you know what works and what doesn't.

The downside with Judo is that it can take an awfully long time to get to the point where it becomes useful. Years. I think with a striking art you get something useful much more quickly, even if it doesn't leave you that well rounded.

I suspect a combination of arts would tend to work best - or possibly one of them, practised with a fully rounded syllabus (good luck finding one of those ...)

I think, as has been noted above, that grappling skills should be mandatory for girls' self-defense. It's a sad fact that they're the ones most likely to find themselves pinned down while someone tries to do things to them. Decent grappling skills could help the situation, sometimes.

If you doubt that girls can be very effective at this, check out Ronda Rousey - former Olympic competitor, now UFC champion. 

And yes, men generally have a weight/strength advantage, but, as a Judo instructor, there are still some girls I know that I'm not going to beat - even though I outweigh them and probably have more raw strength. If the technique is good enough, it _can_ overcome some deficiency in power. Takes a lot of effort to get that technique though.

Belts? Meh. They hold your jacket together. But some kids like having a measure to check their progress.
But belts should be given out reluctantly, once a student has proved ability - avoid anywhere that gives black belts to kids, or guarantees advancement after payment.

There's no money in Judo. People do it because they love it.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Ok, some folks got me talking in another thread but instead I decided not to threadjack anymore. So for all folks engaged in martial arts, let's have it out.
> 
> Which martial arts have you found to be effective? Which do you recommend to your children? Which offer your children sufficient guidance in learning discipline and restraint in self-defence? Are non-contact martial arts useless in your opinion? (It is in my opinion - discuss!)
> 
> That kind of thing... Or if fighters yourselves, let's share stories! This is fight-club, mead hall, warrior's gathering, whatever you wanna call it  Besides, talking about more manly endeavours saves me whining about my STBX and my miserable life lol


Judo for children, it's character building and learns break falls, both life long assets.

For self defence: The mentality of a pitbull-do.

All MA's are good and bad, it depends entirely on the person training and performing.

I once felt a little treatened by a group of men, I was with my wife and had an umbrella. I took another grip of it, and nothing happened (nothing would have happened anyway I expect). These guys would have been very surprised what a good umbrella can do.

I think the posture and intention are a kind of self defence in it's own.

(I have done and do several kind's of MA)


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## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

See_Listen_Love said:


> These guys would have been very surprised what a good umbrella can do.


I love to see that 

And yes - big plus of Judo is the breakfalls - saved me, when somersaulting over a car bonnet on a bicycle onto concrete (how many people can get up, with nothing broken after that?!) and both of my boys have benefitted from it, having fallen off things and just being able to roll back to their feet.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Ok, some folks got me talking in another thread but instead I decided not to threadjack anymore. So for all folks engaged in martial arts, let's have it out.
> 
> Which martial arts have you found to be effective? Which do you recommend to your children? Which offer your children sufficient guidance in learning discipline and restraint in self-defence? Are non-contact martial arts useless in your opinion? (It is in my opinion - discuss!)
> 
> That kind of thing... Or if fighters yourselves, let's share stories! This is fight-club, mead hall, warrior's gathering, whatever you wanna call it  Besides, talking about more manly endeavours saves me whining about my STBX and my miserable life lol


Judo or Jujutsu.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Muay Thai is definitely effective, as it uses elbow and knee strikes which to be honest; are the only strikes effective on the street - but that's just my experience. I've rarely had punches and kicks cause enough damage. If properly trained sure, but meh.
> 
> In the past I always just dived straight in, didn't even bother with countering a punch or a kick unless it was coming at my weak points such as my solar plex, face, groin, etc. But that was only due to the majority of amateur fighters. Trained strikers when I underestimated them always got the upper hand with me - at least the first time.
> 
> ...



Funny thing is that I turn everything into an elbow or knee strike when there is flexibility in the form. I'm for ending the fight quickly if possible. Haven't gotten into a fight in 15 years I'm not really trying to play Jason Statham with you all night, got things to do. Still think boxing gets overlooked way too much. The cardio training in boxing is worth it plus you can turn your hooks and uppercuts into elbows like Tyson did.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

I think you need to learn a defence against kicks, it's not in boxing.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

See_Listen_Love said:


> I think you need to learn a defence against kicks, it's not in boxing.


Most thugs/robbers aren't trained and aren't kicking. Defense against kicks is of limited value in a street fight. Most people who know martial arts aren't even using anything past a front or side kick to back someone up. You generally won't have enough space to get a lot of the elaborate kicks off. Now being able to block and throw counters while they get winded from the dime bag they just smoked is a valuable skill to have.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Kobo said:


> Most thugs/robbers aren't trained and aren't kicking. Defense against kicks is of limited value in a street fight. Most people who know martial arts aren't even using anything past a front or side kick to back someone up. You generally won't have enough space to get a lot of the elaborate kicks off. Now being able to block and throw counters while they get winded from the dime bag they just smoked is a valuable skill to have.


The people that get molested in the streets at night get attacked by persons that use kick boxing. Multi - one most of the time. Then when on the ground they keep getting kicked untill they don't move anymore. It's on video a lot of the time.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

See_Listen_Love said:


> The people that get molested in the streets at night get attacked by persons that use kick boxing. Multi - one most of the time. Then when on the ground they keep getting kicked untill they don't move anymore. It's on video a lot of the time.


Where is this?


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> The people that get molested in the streets at night get attacked by persons that use kick boxing. Multi - one most of the time. Then when on the ground they keep getting kicked untill they don't move anymore. It's on video a lot of the time.


When I was younger I once saw a kickboxing champion getting owned by a nightclub's bouncer. The champ was attacking someone at the front of the club and the bouncer went to stop it. The boxer dude started kicking air in front of the bouncer (he tried to scare/impress) but during one of his kicks the bouncer grabbed his ankle and chest and threw him on the ground like a rag. The champ then proceed to flee. The bouncer was big guy though not martial arts guy, just a normal gym dude. Yeah and the guy who started it was the country's kickboxing champ and everyone in the city knew him cause he always started fights for nothing just to show off.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

At one time I was making my living running a set of clubs and a University martial arts/self-defense program. I taught and coached Tae Kwon Do, Judo, Boxing, and Wrestling. 

Not worth going through the titles I held three decades ago. I'm an old man now. The kids are two and three years old, doing basic strikes, grappling, and heavy bag work. 

They wear my old medals around and award themselves trophies, some of which are too big for them to pick up. I don't know if they will ever have the competitive sports background I did because they are homeschooling in a log cabin of interior Alaska.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

I find the discipline related things are utterly useless. In my experience, regardless of whether one is an adult or a child, you have the discipline you brought in and that's it.

Non-contact martial arts ARE useless. What's worse is that they give many the impression they are actually capable of handling themselves when they ARENT.

I was on the wrestling team in hs, and have since trained in krav maga, aikido and MCMAP; I was in your typical karate/tae kwon do style McDojo classes for years as a kid and it was a sheer waste of time memorizing katas and stupid little pressure points - real sparring was rare. I have a big mouth (hey, at least I admit it) and I'm not a big guy, so I've been in more than my fair share of fights. In my opinion, plain old wrestling experience is the most beneficial in a real fight for what you gain in terms of holds/breaking holds, leverage and ability to move on the ground in close quarters (where serious fights always end up). If you're still standing up, plain old boxing is where its at. Other than a few solid and simple techniques shared by a lot of different styles, the fancy stuff goes right out the window in a real fight - kicks? lol. Boxing has the added benefit of being a pretty intense aerobic workout and you spar far more regularly. So many martial arts schools barely make you break a sweat. Go box and you'll look like you just got out of the pool.

I have a great old-school boxing gym here that I go to 2-3 days a week. No air conditioning. Concrete workout floor, nasty beat up free weights, and a solid ring. Its a great group workout in a military style environment. I love it. The Krav Maga I've only been doing the past couple years... tues & thurs when my boxing club hosts beginners.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Kobo said:


> Where is this?


Belgium and The Netherlands:

http://www.vkmag.com/magazine/eindhoven_de_gekste_8_tegen_1/

(skip ad is in the right side up)

Most of the guys were Belgian. Nowadays there are a lot of camera's on the streets, still these types don't care.

Sad, very sad.


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## stevehowefan (Apr 3, 2013)

My son's in Judo, which he really loves. I am glad, as he is six. My wife's about to be in a karate class, from which she was in about 15 years ago. She's excited. Looks like I am about to have an ass kicking family. I'd prefer Krav Maga if anyone around my way taught it.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Heh, it's going to be interesting, a while back my daughter got into trouble for kissing boys at school. After her birthday if things are agreed upon with my STBX, she might start beating up boys in school instead 

Kidding of course, but damn, less embarrassing that way! The kissing definitely wasn't from my side of the family


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Heh, it's going to be interesting, a while back my daughter got into trouble for kissing boys at school. After her birthday if things are agreed upon with my STBX, she might start beating up boys in school instead
> 
> Kidding of course, but damn, less embarrassing that way! The kissing definitely wasn't from my side of the family


HAHA, then you'll love this story.

So my daughter wanted to follow her big brother around and do what he did. So she starts taking Judo at 5. I pick them up after training one day (my daughter is 6 at the time). My son says to me "DAUGHTER isn't allowed to spar for a little while...wanna know why?" So I look back and my daughter is beet red. "Sure, what happened?" My son just says "She kissed a boy"....Hmmmm so I call the instructor and get the full story.

Apparently during sparring, she was paired up with an 8 year old boy she likes. She took him down, pinned him and while having him pinned, decided the time was right to go in for the kiss....LMAO 

So from that day I realized, I don't have to worry about a boy doing something to my daughter that she doesnt want to do...I just have to worry about what SHE wants to do.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Apparently during sparring, she was paired up with an 8 year old boy she likes. She took him down, pinned him and while having him pinned, decided the time was right to go in for the kiss....LMAO
> *
> So from that day I realized, I don't have to worry about a boy doing something to my daughter that she doesnt want to do...I just have to worry about what SHE wants to do.*


:lol: My parents always said the same thing about me. I was in trouble a couple of times at school for kissing boys when I was little, glad to know I wasn't the only one.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Dad&Hubby said:


> HAHA, then you'll love this story.
> 
> So my daughter wanted to follow her big brother around and do what he did. So she starts taking Judo at 5. I pick them up after training one day (my daughter is 6 at the time). My son says to me "DAUGHTER isn't allowed to spar for a little while...wanna know why?" So I look back and my daughter is beet red. "Sure, what happened?" My son just says "She kissed a boy"....Hmmmm so I call the instructor and get the full story.
> 
> ...


That's just awesome!!!

:rofl:


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Ok, some folks got me talking in another thread but instead I decided not to threadjack anymore. So for all folks engaged in martial arts, let's have it out.
> 
> Which martial arts have you found to be effective? Which do you recommend to your children? Which offer your children sufficient guidance in learning discipline and restraint in self-defence? Are non-contact martial arts useless in your opinion? (It is in my opinion - discuss!)
> 
> That kind of thing... Or if fighters yourselves, let's share stories! This is fight-club, mead hall, warrior's gathering, whatever you wanna call it  Besides, talking about more manly endeavours saves me whining about my STBX and my miserable life lol


You just whined.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Dad&Hubby said:


> HAHA, then you'll love this story.
> 
> So my daughter wanted to follow her big brother around and do what he did. So she starts taking Judo at 5. I pick them up after training one day (my daughter is 6 at the time). My son says to me "DAUGHTER isn't allowed to spar for a little while...wanna know why?" So I look back and my daughter is beet red. "Sure, what happened?" My son just says "She kissed a boy"....Hmmmm so I call the instructor and get the full story.
> 
> ...


LOL! Crap... so this blows my "stop kissing" plan all to hell, looks like martial arts will only enable her more!


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

One other important thing that hasn't been mentioned...

What is your daughter interested in doing???


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

The question is - what ISN'T she interested in doing? Heh


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

No karate - judo - tai chi - or any of that type of stuff. I am just a 6'3 240lb man with quick hands, a hard punch, and a very very hot temper, who grew up in a tough neighborhood; so I don't ever get messed with or "challenged" too often.


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## HuggyBear (Aug 4, 2012)

I never "studied" martial arts. I had plenty of friends and relatives who did, including karate, kung fu, judo, muy thai. A few of them were/are quite good, black belts, trophies, and such.

After so many years of "sparring", meaning getting my ass kicked up and down, I did eventually learn (internalizing and instinct) to give the ones who weren't bigger and stronger than me a serious beat-down. That's when I started to accumulate "respect".

I haven't been in a fight with more than three blows in 15 years, and those were over ten years ago. I do always carry a knife, however. And I don't "talk so loudly".


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> 6'3 240lb man with quick hands, a hard punch, and a very very hot temper, who grew up in a tough neighborhood





> ( Huggybear ) I do always carry a knife, however.


....ehhh...
Then you two are the guys the rest is trying to defend themselves from......


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

Cee Paul said:


> I am just a 6'3 240lb man with quick hands, a hard punch,,, who grew up in a tough neighborhood; so I don't ever get messed with or "challenged" too often.


That sounds like one of my best mate's. 
He is one of the sweetest, kindest, gentle men until someone foolishly "pushes his buttons" at which point they are faced with the angery ex marine.


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## 1971 (Mar 7, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Ok, some folks got me talking in another thread but instead I decided not to threadjack anymore. So for all folks engaged in martial arts, let's have it out.
> 
> Which martial arts have you found to be effective? Which do you recommend to your children? Which offer your children sufficient guidance in learning discipline and restraint in self-defence? Are non-contact martial arts useless in your opinion? (It is in my opinion - discuss!)
> 
> That kind of thing... Or if fighters yourselves, let's share stories! This is fight-club, mead hall, warrior's gathering, whatever you wanna call it  Besides, talking about more manly endeavours saves me whining about my STBX and my miserable life lol




Both my kids are doing JuJitsu ( 10M & 8F ) not sure where you are but this one is excellent 

World Ju-Jitsu Training & Development Services - Home


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Or if fighters yourselves, let's share stories! This is fight-club, mead hall, warrior's gathering, whatever you wanna call it


Following some good advice to me on a previous thread I have dug out my old Heavy bag and hung it in the garage. Now I can go and batter it when I feel the need.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> ....ehhh...
> Then you two are the guys the rest is trying to defend themselves from......


Haven't been in a fight in probably 25 years, and my dad always taught us never ever start a fight with anyone but to fight like hell if anyone starts one with us.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> No karate - judo - tai chi - or any of that type of stuff. I am just a 6'3 240lb man with quick hands, a hard punch, and a very very hot temper, who grew up in a tough neighborhood; so I don't ever get messed with or "challenged" too often.


Never was afraid or intimidated by the 6' plus guy. It's the 5'6" who is WAY TOO QUIET.....he's the one to worry about.

One of the biggest myths...Bigger = tougher. Some of my easiest fights were against guys taller than me. Especially when grappling comes into play. They're usually very easy to shoot and take down.

There's also a tendency for bigger guys to have relied on the intimidation factor more so than actual skill.

Not saying this against you Cee Paul, just my experience. 

The biggest beat down I received was from a dude who was MAYBE 5' 5" and 140lbs wet. He was VERY fast and very slippery LOL. And he could punch like a friggin mule kick. But that's a whole other conversation (the hurt me knuckles versus hurt you knuckles)


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Never was afraid or intimidated by the 6' plus guy. It's the 5'6" who is WAY TOO QUIET.....he's the one to worry about.
> 
> One of the biggest myths...Bigger = tougher. Some of my easiest fights were against guys taller than me. Especially when grappling comes into play. They're usually very easy to shoot and take down.
> 
> ...


My defense has always been my size of course; but also that I fight unfairly by maybe picking up objects and either clobbering them with it or throwing it at them, as well as punching whatever part of the body I can get my hands on! Because I never ever pick a fight with anyone but if someone decides to do so with me then........ANYTHING goes and all bets are off, and if you get blasted in the package with a brick or slammed in the forehead with a garbage can lid then don't go crying "foul".


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> It's the 5'6" who is WAY TOO QUIET.....he's the one to worry about.


:iagree:



> But that's a whole other conversation (the hurt me knuckles versus hurt you knuckles)


That reminds me of something, in a SAS personal defence guide it was advised for a non professional NOT to punch as a means of fighting for self defence. That would only get the bones in your hand broken because the skull is much harder. You should uses the karate chop instead.

Now I think that may be right. But no MA concentrates on that chopping. Why would that be, any experiences?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> One of the biggest myths...Bigger = tougher. Some of my easiest fights were against guys taller than me. Especially when grappling comes into play. They're usually very easy to shoot and take down.


Reminds me of how I got my ass handed to me during Naadam, I picked a small opponent to wrestle, but he was like a mountain with an iron grip. Impossible to move him! Of course it wasn't a real fight (or I may have pulled out a few dirty moves hehe), but even then he probably has his cards as well + being an solid grappler. Learnt my lesson there - pick on the bigger guys lol


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

Ask yourself if your martial art ever places you in a situation where you have to test your techniques against a non-compliant partner trying the same techniques as you (sparring - randori) and if it has a competitive structure that lets you test those techniques' efficiency against somebody hardened to knock you out or take you down (competition - shiai). Otherwise, you are just LARPing for fitness or fun, but none of it will work on someone trying to really hurt you.

I have coached wrestling and Judo for over ten years now and have been a lifelong wrestler and Judoka.

"Someone with only a year of training in boxing and wrestling could easily defeat a Kung Fu master of twenty years experience." -Bruce Lee, Jeet Kune Do founder
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> No karate - judo - tai chi - or any of that type of stuff. I am just a 6'3 240lb man with quick hands, a hard punch, and a very very hot temper, who grew up in a tough neighborhood; so I don't ever get messed with or "challenged" too often.


There are HW wrestlers, HW Judokas, and HW boxers and kickboxers K1 strikers your size a dime a dozen.

It doesn't hurt to train and compete against others that will improve you no matter how big you are.

Personally, I'm 5'11" and I love the guys over 6'... They are so much easier to take down to the floor.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Interlocutor said:


> There are HW wrestlers, HW Judokas, and HW boxers and kickboxers K1 strikers your size a dime a dozen.
> 
> It doesn't hurt to train and compete against others that will improve you no matter how big you are.
> 
> ...


I just tell people if you pick a fight with me no matter what it is you know, that I might win - you might win - but one thing for sure is that the other person will leave that fight with some sort of serious injury(deep laceration or broken bone)even if you take me out. And then if we somehow tangle again the same thing will happen and to get ready for another deep scar or broken bone, because all the wrestling and judo training in the world is not gonna stop chunks of rock or lead pipes being thrown at you like a baseball.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

^ That's for us, but not all children will grow up in tough neighborhoods and I didn't work my ass off last few years to have my own daughter live through the violence of my youth lol

Nope, instead she will learn how to fight without living life on a dagger's edge daily! And she has the benefit of a dad who can train her in survival BUT only when he is sure she will use her training responsibly. But until that point, she should benefit from the physical and mental conditioning combat sports provide.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

I'm highly interested in Krav Maga as mentioned earlier in this thread. It is pretty aggressive...attack quick and brutal. From the books I've read, it is a system designed on natural movement with large emphasis of close quarter combat and explosive and harsh reactivity...stuff like blunt hammerfists to the face (if placed in bear hug if you have free arms). Not a sport martial art...it is of a kill or be killed mentality.
Speaking of fight club, i remember when after work, we would throw down in the hotel ballroom where we worked. I stopped wrestling one guy cos his body odor was so bad it got on my clothes. Unbeknownst to us, some restaurant server was skilled in Tae Kwon Do and straight dropped this kid on the hard dancefloor. We decided to take it off property and go with gloved boxing, but someone broke rule #1 and a manager got wind...saying "I can't tell you what you can or can't do on your own time, but if anyone shows up with a black eye, then that person is going to be terminated." So the crew went to body shots, which killed it and we moved on to some other novelty.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

With all the guns being used nowadays sometimes it's kind of "refreshing" when I see two kids duking it out with only their _fists_ on some news clip, just like we used to do back in the old days at the bus stops or the ball fields.


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## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Now I think that may be right. But no MA concentrates on that chopping. Why would that be, any experiences?


Because a properly executed punch is better? The point being that if you're going to practice to get get good, then you're not untrained, and there's no need to 'make do' with a safer but less effective technique.

That said, the atemi-waza (striking techniques) in judo do include finger-tips, edge of hand, elbow, knee and fist. If only they were ever practiced ... 

(I'm a technician, y'see, and I study the theory and the history as well as the practical.)


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Heh I still remember my times in smaller towns, some of my brawls ended up with us buying each other drinks and becoming mates after a punchup. It's all too serious in cities, life and death. Not much on guns here in Australia, but with bottles, knives, machetes, pipes, icepicks, it's just as dangerous. 

During my teens when I was growing up my mates and I also had our little "club" though it wasn't really official, we just hanged out and started fights to keep ourselves sharp but many times we instead went out starting fights on the street. Went solo on it a few times, was a nutcase back then, didn't care if I lived or died. Still, guess the experience made me tougher and more able to defend myself and my family nowadays, even though I had to learn how to grapple, lose the elbows and knee strikes as to not to land my ass back to court. Can't be a family man in jail!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

I've strength trained a number of advanced martial artists in various styles. Right now I've got a guy who is into some kind of Indonesian kick boxing called "silat."

One thing about fighting, you never really know what you're opening up when you start something. Some guys will really beat the crap out of your expectations. Brian Urlacher vs. Bas Rutten for example.

So, I avoid trouble and I'm built enough and I'm big enough that it's generally easy to do. In Texas, we traditionally don't mess around much with fists, if you know what I mean, but it might be nice to have some sort of intermediate response. My guru is the late Jeff Cooper, originator of the "Modern Technique."


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

I try to avoid any fights simply because I don't wanna be responsible for my actions and end up in jail after I blow my stack and lose my mind, because with my terrible temper that is exactly what would happen. Most of the time just giving someone "that look" does it for me and lets them know not to take things in that direction.


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

Rags said:


> Because a properly executed punch is better? The point being that if you're going to practice to get get good, then you're not untrained, and there's no need to 'make do' with a safer but less effective technique.
> 
> That said, the atemi-waza (striking techniques) in judo do include finger-tips, edge of hand, elbow, knee and fist. If only they were ever practiced ...
> 
> (I'm a technician, y'see, and I study the theory and the history as well as the practical.)


If your club has a good kata focus, at least that will keep atemi waza around somewhat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Cee Paul said:


> I try to avoid any fights simply because I don't wanna be responsible for my actions and end up in jail after I blow my stack and lose my mind, because with my terrible temper that is exactly what would happen. Most of the time just giving someone "that look" does it for me and lets them know not to take things in that direction.


And that's why you learn grappling 

Not saying I go out and start fights, but I no longer have much fear of what I may do to people when I can restrain from causing damages but not necessarily mean restraining from humiliating them 
Unless of course I get backed into a corner or something by a bunch of guys with weapons and I'm unarmed... then well, that sucks.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Yeah, I just want to study Krav Maga not to pick fights or walk around with a chip on my shoulder...just like the idea of knowing I could be formidable if something went down. I think it is important for the male identity to connect with his powerful, destructive side yet have it all honed and disciplined to save it for the right cause.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

FormerSelf said:


> Yeah, I just want to study Krav Maga not to pick fights or walk around with a chip on my shoulder...just like the idea of knowing I could be formidable if something went down. I think it is important for the male identity to connect with his powerful, destructive side yet have it all honed and disciplined to save it for the right cause.


That's why I started krav maga (had the fight and flight technique down packed before though), except for the male (im female) but it did help connect with my identity.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> I think it is important for the male identity to connect with his powerful, destructive side yet have it all honed and disciplined to save it for the right cause.


Agreed



> That's why I started krav maga (had the fight and flight technique down packed before though), except for the male *(im female)* but it did help connect with my identity.


Please forgive me if this may seem sexist - but its not my intention:

This is something that's also in my head, like sure, if I had a son instead of a daughter, martial training compulsory - no exceptions. Our people may be tame nowadays but we are still a warrior culture. Sure, historically, our women were also given martial training out of necessity, and we have our history of powerful female leaders and warriors. But...

The traditional role of warrior still falls to the men regardless of the ability of our women. In war, it was preferable for our men to die so our women can live on and carry on the survival of our people. This survivalism has made our women traditionally more capable and powerful then comparisons with ancient sedentary civilisations, but warrior was still not a traditional feminine identity.

So I ask this; how does martial training for help you connect with your identity as a woman? I'm asking this as I'm still considering enrolling my daughter for training after her bday.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

It helped me with my identity because it helped me realize my potential and how much capable I was (it's never a nice feeling like total prey), my confidence rocketed. 
That pretty much spread to all aspects of my life (empower the body, empower the brain). 
The funny thing is other female's who are/were in martial art's I've heard never heard them b*tch about people, I think there is a aggressive streak in females but often not harnessed/disposed of so b*tching occurs more often (has to get released somehow).


p.s no offense taken


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

So its not about being a warrior princess, but simply being the best that one can be, and realising what one is capable of?

Well, I guess I can live with that. Still sometimes I wonder if reading her stories of Khutulun and other strong women in my people's proud history may be influencing her negatively in the expectations of modern society. Sometimes I wonder if I should just mirror what my STBX does and stick to girly crap for my daughter.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Maybe not a princess warrior but after taking down a 6'3 bloke (i'm 5'4) when he grabbed me by the throat sure made me feel like a warrior after (especially after he's mate who was with him legged it lol).


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

TiggyBlue said:


> It helped me with my identity because it helped me realize my potential and how much capable I was (it's never a nice feeling like total prey), my confidence rocketed.
> That pretty much spread to all aspects of my life (empower the body, empower the brain).
> The funny thing is other female's who are/were in martial art's I've heard never heard them b*tch about people, I think there is a aggressive streak in females but often not harnessed/disposed of so b*tching occurs more often (has to get released somehow).
> 
> ...


Good reason to get into a martial art especially if you have been victimized by a situation. Helps you to re-establish your mental center...

Great idea.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, I do wish my daughter to grow up confident, and what you said does make sense (including the b-tching part lol), so I guess I can continue grooming her up to be my little warrior! She's tough for her age considering what she's been through due to my STBX and I's seperation.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

See_Listen_Love said:


> :iagree:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Kenpo used "chops" - focusing on soft spots like the neck and groin.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> And that's why you learn grappling
> 
> Not saying I go out and start fights, but I no longer have much fear of what I may do to people when I can restrain from causing damages but not necessarily mean restraining from humiliating them
> Unless of course I get backed into a corner or something by a bunch of guys with weapons and I'm unarmed... then well, that sucks.


I usually don't have anyone who chooses to approach me like that and haven't _had_ to fight anyone in at least 25 years, so don't need to worry about any of that stuff. You would have to know me in person to actually understand what I mean.


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## Reality_check (Apr 1, 2013)

Wiltshireman said:


> Following some good advice to me on a previous thread I have dug out my *old heavy bag* and hung it in the garage. Now I can go and batter it when I feel the need.


That's no way to talk about her indoors. :rofl:


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## Kronk (Dec 8, 2012)

I boxed through the amateurs, thirteen years in the pros and trained professional boxers. My son who is 23, has boxed his whole life, competed at an elite level and trained with elite pros. He's never had a problem with bullies his whole life. My 15 year old daughter has been coming to the gym since she was little and can throw them as good as many of the boys. She had one problem with bullies so shaped up and says lets have it out. No more problems with bullies for her haha.
As far as fitness goes, at the elite level, no other sport compares. It is a hard game to be in!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Cee Paul said:


> I usually don't have anyone who chooses to approach me like that and haven't _had_ to fight anyone in at least 25 years, so don't need to worry about any of that stuff. You would have to know me in person to actually understand what I mean.


Heh, I wish this was my case. When I turned 18 I wanted to start a new life, free from violence, looking over my shoulder all the time. I learnt very quickly that there was always someone left to fight. Sure, I learnt restraint - the virtue of being able to keep walking. But some people... nah, they need a wake up call. Violence can be an answer at times... still, I haven't had a fight for 4-5 years now. That's good at least lol


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Heh, I wish this was my case. When I turned 18 I wanted to start a new life, free from violence, looking over my shoulder all the time. I learnt very quickly that there was always someone left to fight. Sure, I learnt restraint - the virtue of being able to keep walking. But some people... nah, they need a wake up call. Violence can be an answer at times... still, I haven't had a fight for 4-5 years now. That's good at least lol


Same here; came from a place that was fun growing up but later on when I was in my late teens to early 20's things started to get violent and dangerous, so that is when I decided that even if I have to work THREE jobs to get out of there and live uptown middle class - I'm going to do it. And by the time I was in my late 20's I was out of there for good and have never moved back in almost twenty years, and a lot of the people that stayed are either in jail or dead now.

My wife introduced me to a middle to upper class life that I'm adjusting to but is waaaay different than what I'm used to.


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