# who really has the power to swap



## plastow

i posted my problems earlier this month about my personal problem with our swap which went badly wqrong for me.this is an observation about the answers i got and most said my wife had no blame in it.i as the husband asked her if she would consider a swap ,she said no. but when i aksed her again a few days later she said i,m upset you would ask me but i will think about it.i left it for a dau then asked her again and she said i,m still thinking about it.then one morning in bed she just said yes ok i asked what she meant as we not talking about that at the time and she said the swap yes.but what i,m getting at is i aksed on several occasions,and she said she would think about it,ok my part is over then but she had the power to say yes or no i didnt so when she said yes she knew for sure it would happen but until then i had no power to put it into action until she said ok.so who is really to blame me for asking or her for instigating what she then knew would happen.seems the guy always gets the blame.but he has no power its the woman who decides to do it.just a thought .i,m not blaming anyone but i think its time this was said.women have the veto on it all the way


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## ConanHub

plastow said:


> i posted my problems earlier this month about my personal problem with our swap which went badly wqrong for me.this is an observation about the answers i got and most said my wife had no blame in it.i as the husband asked her if she would consider a swap ,she said no. but when i aksed her again a few days later she said i,m upset you would ask me but i will think about it.i left it for a dau then asked her again and she said i,m still thinking about it.then one morning in bed she just said yes ok i asked what she meant as we not talking about that at the time and she said the swap yes.but what i,m getting at is i aksed on several occasions,and she said she would think about it,ok my part is over then but she had the power to say yes or no i didnt so when she said yes she knew for sure it would happen but until then i had no power to put it into action until she said ok.so who is really to blame me for asking or her for instigating what she then knew would happen.seems the guy always gets the blame.but he has no power its the woman who decides to do it.just a thought .i,m not blaming anyone but i think its time this was said.women have the veto on it all the way


I think you have the blame tipped a bit more on the scale than your wife for starting it and pursuing her a few times about it and then going through with it.

She's a grown ass woman though and she knew damn well what she was doing and is responsible for her choices.

You both screwed up.


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## Blondilocks

Well, maybe she thought it was the only way to get you to shut up about it. The third time you brought it up is when she should have realized that you have no respect or love for her and she should have filed for divorce.

You're looking for a way to mitigate your fault in this ****show and it stinks. Man up - you did it so own it.


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## MJJEAN

I agree with @ConanHub.

You brought it up. You repeatedly asked her to do it. She, whether or not you were bugging and pressuring her in any way, agreed to do it. You're both to blame, but you are the one who brought this in to your marriage and that puts a bit more of the fault on your plate. Screwing up your marriage with group sex was, well, a group effort. 

If you want to save the marriage you're both going to have to own your parts. You have to own that this idiocy was your idea. She has to own that she agreed. You have to forgive yourselves and each other to move forward together or separately. You don't get to blame her for agreeing as if you didn't ask for it in the first place. She doesn't get to blame you for asking as if she didn't agree to do it.


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## Tested_by_stress

You're grasping at straws here op. You're trying to ease your guilt or escape blame. Bottom line is you orchestrated the whole thing. It was your idea. You wouldn't take no for an answer. Own it!!


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## Numb26

These stories just make me shake my head


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## happyhusband0005

plastow said:


> i posted my problems earlier this month about my personal problem with our swap which went badly wqrong for me.this is an observation about the answers i got and most said my wife had no blame in it.i as the husband asked her if she would consider a swap ,she said no. but when i aksed her again a few days later she said i,m upset you would ask me but i will think about it.i left it for a dau then asked her again and she said i,m still thinking about it.then one morning in bed she just said yes ok i asked what she meant as we not talking about that at the time and she said the swap yes.but what i,m getting at is i aksed on several occasions,and she said she would think about it,ok my part is over then but she had the power to say yes or no i didnt so when she said yes she knew for sure it would happen but until then i had no power to put it into action until she said ok.so who is really to blame me for asking or her for instigating what she then knew would happen.seems the guy always gets the blame.but he has no power its the woman who decides to do it.just a thought .i,m not blaming anyone but i think its time this was said.women have the veto on it all the way


Here is the issue. You asked she said no, you asked again she said no, you asked again she said I'm thinking about it, then she said yes. Now what happened in that time. She probably talked herself into it out of wanting to make you happy. The proper thing would have been to leave it alone for a while and if you decided to bring it up again bring it up in more general terms, not in specific terms of you initiating a swap situation. You should have created more space for both of you to think about and discuss the various potential outcomes and have more in depth discussions about fears, rules, etc. 

The way you handled it was like a kid begging for a cookie before dinner until the parents just gives in. It never should have gone past "I'm upset you would ask me". 

Women generally control the situations but deciding to get involved should be a 50/50 thing. When you don't take no for no you are begging for trouble.


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## Diana7

The fact is you didn't take no for an answer. You didn't respect her choices. 
She said no but you wanted to do it so you kept asking. 
She gave in. Yes she should have stayed strong and not agreed to do this foolish thing but YOU are the one who bought up this mad crazy idea after 50 years of marriage. 

So it's NOTHING to do with the man always getting the blame. If she had bought it up and badgered you then SHE would be more responsible. 

Op, until you accept full responsibility for not only suggesting that you have sex with others, but badgering her to agree, you will never be able to move on. Trying to put equal blame on your wife isn't going to help.


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## Diana7

Numb26 said:


> These stories just make me shake my head


Absolutely. In total despair.


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## Numb26

Diana7 said:


> Absolutely. In total despair.


How they expect anything good to come from doing it is beyond me


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## Diana7

Numb26 said:


> How they expect anything good to come from doing it is beyond me


Me too. Especially after 50 years!!!!!


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## plastow

Diana7 said:


> Me too. Especially after 50 years!!!!!


why especially after 50 years.i guess your a younger person who thinks older people should not try anything different in sex.because we had been married and very happy until this ill judged episode,we felt we were strong enough to be able to try it.it was wrong and we know that but the thrill before was incredible and yes us oldies still want and have sex its not just for you young uns


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## plastow

Numb26 said:


> How they expect anything good to come from doing it is beyond me


the good we expected was sexual excitement.maybe you dont ever have an experimental mind and the sex you have is good enough for you but we are all different whats enough for you may well not be enough even for your partner,have you ever asked


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## Openminded

If you hadn’t kept bringing it up it wouldn’t have happened so don’t blame her because it didn’t turn out how you scripted it. Let it go.


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## plastow

Diana7 said:


> The fact is you didn't take no for an answer. You didn't respect her choices.
> She said no but you wanted to do it so you kept asking.
> She gave in. Yes she should have stayed strong and not agreed to do this foolish thing but YOU are the one who bought up this mad crazy idea after 50 years of marriage.
> 
> So it's NOTHING to do with the man always getting the blame. If she had bought it up and badgered you then SHE would be more responsible.
> 
> Op, until you accept full responsibility for not only suggesting that you have sex with others, but badgering her to agree, you will never be able to move on. Trying to put equal blame on your wife isn't going to help.


we had used this scenario many times in fantasy and during sex my wife often said she would love to do it.but thats a fantasy and one we should have stayed with but we tried it for some it works for others it doesnt


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## Numb26

plastow said:


> the good we expected was sexual excitement.maybe you dont ever have an experimental mind and the sex you have is good enough for you but we are all different whats enough for you may well not be enough even for your partner,have you ever asked


If my partner ever decides that what I give her is not enough she always knows where the door is.


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## plastow

Blondilocks said:


> Well, maybe she thought it was the only way to get you to shut up about it. The third time you brought it up is when she should have realized that you have no respect or love for her and she should have filed for divorce.
> 
> You're looking for a way to mitigate your fault in this ****show and it stinks. Man up - you did it so own it.


she has stuck to her guns over many things which i had tried to get her to change her mind on but she would not budge,some trivial and some i wanted a lot but she disagreed i was ok with them but this she changed her mind in 3 days i asked her 3 times but this time knowing what it would lead to she agreed so perhaps she wanted it too.which she has agreed she did once she made up her mind.and she did enjoy it.


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## Diana7

plastow said:


> why especially after 50 years.i guess your a younger person who thinks older people should not try anything different in sex.because we had been married and very happy until this ill judged episode,we felt we were strong enough to be able to try it.it was wrong and we know that but the thrill before was incredible and yes us oldies still want and have sex its not just for you young uns


No I am in my 6O's. Sadly the 'thrill' before had been dwarfed by the suffering and torment since hasn't it. Plus the actual event didn't work out either did it? I think it's great that older people enjoy good sex, but with each other. 
When I said after a 50 year marriage I meant that you maybe should have realised how important faithfulness is. That as we age we hopefully should get wiser. That's all I meant.


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## Diana7

plastow said:


> she has stuck to her guns over many things which i had tried to get her to change her mind on but she would not budge,some trivial and some i wanted a lot but she disagreed i was ok with them but this she changed her mind in 3 days i asked her 3 times but this time knowing what it would lead to she agreed so perhaps she wanted it too.which she has agreed she did once she made up her mind.and she did enjoy it.


You opened the door, she walked through it.


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## plastow

Diana7 said:


> No I am in my 6O's. Sadly the 'thrill' before had been dwarfed by the suffering and torment since hasn't it. Plus the actual event didn't work out either did it? I think it's great that older people enjoy good sex, but with each other.
> When I said after a 50 year marriage I meant that you maybe should have realised how important faithfulness is. That as we age we hopefully should get wiser. That's all I meant.


thank you for replying


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## plastow

Diana7 said:


> You opened the door, she walked through it.


yes she did,very much so


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## Tested_by_stress

Plastow, surely you realize this wouldn't have happened if you'd just taken no for an answer?


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## DownByTheRiver

plastow said:


> i posted my problems earlier this month about my personal problem with our swap which went badly wqrong for me.this is an observation about the answers i got and most said my wife had no blame in it.i as the husband asked her if she would consider a swap ,she said no. but when i aksed her again a few days later she said i,m upset you would ask me but i will think about it.i left it for a dau then asked her again and she said i,m still thinking about it.then one morning in bed she just said yes ok i asked what she meant as we not talking about that at the time and she said the swap yes.but what i,m getting at is i aksed on several occasions,and she said she would think about it,ok my part is over then but she had the power to say yes or no i didnt so when she said yes she knew for sure it would happen but until then i had no power to put it into action until she said ok.so who is really to blame me for asking or her for instigating what she then knew would happen.seems the guy always gets the blame.but he has no power its the woman who decides to do it.just a thought .i,m not blaming anyone but i think its time this was said.women have the veto on it all the way


Then you should have listened the first time she said no.


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## Diana7

plastow said:


> the good we expected was sexual excitement.maybe you dont ever have an experimental mind and the sex you have is good enough for you but we are all different whats enough for you may well not be enough even for your partner,have you ever asked





plastow said:


> yes she did,very much so


However you have to recognise that you opened the door. If you hadn't I highly doubt she would ever have suggested it.


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## Cooper

Sure she had the power to veto, and she did just that, and then she did it a second time, and then she gave in. 

Frankly you pushed her into a no win situation. If she kept saying no you would be on here *****ing about how boring your sex life is and your wife has no interest in changing things up, for shame on her.


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## Anastasia6

plastow said:


> i posted my problems earlier this month about my personal problem with our swap which went badly wqrong for me.this is an observation about the answers i got and most said my wife had no blame in it.i as the husband asked her if she would consider a swap ,she said no. but when i aksed her again a few days later she said i,m upset you would ask me but i will think about it.i left it for a dau then asked her again and she said i,m still thinking about it.then one morning in bed she just said yes ok i asked what she meant as we not talking about that at the time and she said the swap yes.but what i,m getting at is i aksed on several occasions,and she said she would think about it,ok my part is over then but she had the power to say yes or no i didnt so when she said yes she knew for sure it would happen but until then i had no power to put it into action until she said ok.so who is really to blame me for asking or her for instigating what she then knew would happen.seems the guy always gets the blame.but he has no power its the woman who decides to do it.just a thought .i,m not blaming anyone but i think its time this was said.women have the veto on it all the way


Are you asking in general or in your specific case. You brought it up and she said she couldn't even believe you asked her. That is a pretty strong indication that she didn't want to. 

So you kept brining it up. You claim like oh it wasn't a big deal you bringing it up like everyday for 3 days. But here's the thing that is pressure. You say she's stuck to her guns before and said no. How do you know what she is thinking? She told you no. Then you keep asking. I'm in a 28 year marriage that is happy but I still worry. I am getting older. Does he want something younger. My parents divorced at like 20 years in so maybe that's out there too. Is he bored with me? Is he bored with our sex life?..... 

When you bring it up 3 days in a row that is not some 'simple' question like you present it. As an adult sure she has to take some responsibility. However, I look at that she was trying to appease you. She never would have asked. She said no. So you asking 3 times makes it seem important to you. Also you had already arrange it with your friend hadn't you. Or talked about it with your friend. It was some random thought you were down the rabbit hole. 
That's all on you.

So no you have to think about the fact that your friend plowed her. You have to wonder what all they did even though your friend already told you. You can't accept it unless your wife tells you. You wanted her to enjoy herself and she did. If you are lucky she didn't enjoy it so much that she now wants the friend on the side. Or starts to wonder about other males. Ones you didn't set her up with. Maybe she is now wondering what someone bigger or girthier would feel like. Or maybe now she wonders if it's too late to find a man who doesn't want to share her. One that won't badger her years after an event that he orchestrated. She's getting older but she's into sex so she could absolutely find someone who would cherish her without pimping her out and then constantly bugging her about what happened. OR even worse try to make the whole thing her fault. You are simply still pissed off that she went into the other room and closed to door. That apparently her fantasy was your friend and not putting on a show for you.


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## Anastasia6

Cooper said:


> Sure she had the power to veto, and she did just that, and then she did it a second time, and then she gave in.
> 
> Frankly you pushed her into a no win situation. If she kept saying no you would be on here *****ing about how boring your sex life is and your wife has no interest in changing things up, for shame on her.


Yep her biggest mistake was trying to make him happy.


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## Numb26

Anastasia6 said:


> Yep her biggest mistake was trying to make him happy.


She should have kicked him to the curb


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## rugswept

I have no idea how this will all end. 

So far I've never seen any of these swap, open marriage threads do anything but end up as a disaster for the M. The ffff with that. Just end the M and go out and get all the sex. With these swaps / opens, etc. it ends up like that except in the opposite order: first the sex then the end of the M. 

I'm not sure how your story will end when compared to the others, but you are well on your way to an M that is over, like the others, or you'll be hoping it's over because of how efffed up it all got. 

If I was on the other side of one these pushed proposals (as in the other party started the whole idea and asked me to do it), I would never be the same. There is no way I could view the relationship in the same way, ever. But, that's just me.


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## wmn1

Numb26 said:


> If my partner ever decides that what I give her is not enough she always knows where the door is.


yes. 

People who swap have mental issues. I have no sympathy. Just don't come around me with your moral failures. Screw them


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## wmn1

MJJEAN said:


> I agree with @ConanHub.
> 
> You brought it up. You repeatedly asked her to do it. She, whether or not you were bugging and pressuring her in any way, agreed to do it. You're both to blame, but you are the one who brought this in to your marriage and that puts a bit more of the fault on your plate. Screwing up your marriage with group sex was, well, a group effort.
> 
> If you want to save the marriage you're both going to have to own your parts. You have to own that this idiocy was your idea. She has to own that she agreed. You have to forgive yourselves and each other to move forward together or separately. You don't get to blame her for agreeing as if you didn't ask for it in the first place. She doesn't get to blame you for asking as if she didn't agree to do it.


why is it acceptable to bring other people into your marriage. I agree.

No swinging, no open marriage.

I actually laugh when these marriages fail because they are jokes of marriages. Don't get married if you want to fvck other people. You are a loser and a homebreaker at that point. Stop the BS.


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## wmn1

rugswept said:


> I have no idea how this will all end.
> 
> So far I've never seen any of these swap, open marriage threads do anything but end up as a disaster for the M. The ffff with that. Just end the M and go out and get all the sex. With these swaps / opens, etc. it ends up like that except in the opposite order: first the sex then the end of the M.
> 
> I'm not sure how your story will end when compared to the others, but you are well on your way to an M that is over, like the others, or you'll be hoping it's over because of how efffed up it all got.
> 
> If I was on the other side of one these pushed proposals (as in the other party started the whole idea and asked me to do it), I would never be the same. There is no way I could view the relationship in the same way, ever. But, that's just me.


agreed. It's mentally ill to do it


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## Cooper

Numb26 said:


> She should have kicked him to the curb


Give it some time, this could be the beginning of the end.


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## Diana7

rugswept said:


> I have no idea how this will all end.
> 
> So far I've never seen any of these swap, open marriage threads do anything but end up as a disaster for the M. The ffff with that. Just end the M and go out and get all the sex. With these swaps / opens, etc. it ends up like that except in the opposite order: first the sex then the end of the M.
> 
> I'm not sure how your story will end when compared to the others, but you are well on your way to an M that is over, like the others, or you'll be hoping it's over because of how efffed up it all got.
> 
> If I was on the other side of one these pushed proposals (as in the other party started the whole idea and asked me to do it), I would never be the same. There is no way I could view the relationship in the same way, ever. But, that's just me.


I agree. All respect for my spouse would be gone even if I said no.


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## Diana7

wmn1 said:


> yes.
> 
> People who swap have mental issues. I have no sympathy. Just don't come around me with your moral failures. Screw them


Not sure they have mental issues, they just treat faithfulness with total distain. They treat sex as meaningless. They don't realize the long term consequences of what they are doing.


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## Diana7

Anastasia6 said:


> Yep her biggest mistake was trying to make him happy.


I think that most if us know that happiness wouldn't be the outcome. Its a sad story really, after such a long faithful marriage.


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## oldshirt

plastow said:


> i posted my problems earlier this month about my personal problem with our swap which went badly wqrong for me.this is an observation about the answers i got and most said my wife had no blame in it.i as the husband asked her if she would consider a swap ,she said no. but when i aksed her again a few days later she said i,m upset you would ask me but i will think about it.i left it for a dau then asked her again and she said i,m still thinking about it.then one morning in bed she just said yes ok i asked what she meant as we not talking about that at the time and she said the swap yes.but what i,m getting at is i aksed on several occasions,and she said she would think about it,ok my part is over then but she had the power to say yes or no i didnt so when she said yes she knew for sure it would happen but until then i had no power to put it into action until she said ok.so who is really to blame me for asking or her for instigating what she then knew would happen.seems the guy always gets the blame.but he has no power its the woman who decides to do it.just a thought .i,m not blaming anyone but i think its time this was said.women have the veto on it all the way


I think I get what you are getting and even though some here will continue to stick pins in your voodoo doll until the end of time since you desicrated the sacred idol of strict monogamy, I will share a little of my outlook on your dilemma here. 

Here it is - chicks dig sex too and are just as pervy. 

Throughout the world right now as we speak there are millions of hetero and lesbian sex acts taking place all over the world whether it be husbands/wives, unmarried lovers, hook ups from the bar, hookers and their jons, porno movie shoots, 3-somes, swinger swaps and orgies and Lord only what all else. 

There are millions of them taking place right this second and the one thing every single one of those encounters has in them is a participating, consenting female. And the other thing that they all have in common is that female(s) at one point or another and to one degree for another, made at least one statement or one act of resistance. 

As an example, my wife and I have been married for 26 years and have probably had thousands of sexual encounters, and in every last stinking one of them from our first kiss to our most recent sexual contact, she has made at least one, sometimes two or more token attempts at resistance whether it's reminding me that the kids are home (we've had kids for 20 years and yes I know when they are home) or tells me she needs to go to the bathroom or that there are dishes in the sink etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc EVERY SINGLE TIME SINCE DAY ONE. 

We had made our own XXX videos. We've done it in every room and every piece of furniture in the house. We've been to swinger conventions and clubs and parties across the country. We've in club orgy rooms with dozens of naked bodies. But in every single instance there was at least one sentence or one statement of resistance or an eye roll or a head shake or some kind of snort of fiegned disgust or indignation.......... and then she drop her clothes and jump into the body pile. 

This is what chicks do. It's part of the dance. 

Let me put it this way - we all know rabbits are very prolific and they are always chasing each other around out in the yard. But has anyone ever actually seen them screwing in the wild? No. What happens is the boy rabbit approaches the girl rabbit and she takes a hop or two away and then stops and looks back to see if he is still interested. 

He approaches her again and she takes another couple hops then stops and looks back. Rinse and repeat any number of times until she determines he is serious and worthy, he then slips under bushes, gives her a wink, she follows and lifts up her bunny tail. 

This is the same thing. By Chick Code she HAD to initially say no. Otherwise she would have to tear up her Sisterhood Card. 

There are literally millions of active swinging couples in the country at any given time and there are swinging wives swinging from chandeliers every weekend. The one thing they all have in common is they all gave an eye roll and a huff the first time it was brought up to them. 

Don't let the moral majority here give you too bad of time. She accepted the offer and then went behind closed doors with your buddy BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO and she DTF. 

The way I see it, YOU were the one that got cold feet and wussed out. She was playing the game.


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## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> She accepted the offer and then went behind closed doors with your buddy BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO and she DTF.
> 
> The way I see it, YOU were the one that got cold feet and wussed out. She was playing the game.


I'm quoting this again for emphasis. 

The way I see it, YOU are the one that choked and backed out. She was down and was going for it. 

So don't let her or the other posters here or anyone give you crap about making her do something she didn't want. SHE WAS THE ONE DOING IT. You were the one that got butthurt and chickened out. 

Did you screw the pooch here - YES in several different ways. 

But the reality is she was the one that was walking the walk when the time came to put up or shut up. 

You were the one that got cold feet and pulled the plug.


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## Evinrude58

Here’s my take on it:
You asked, she said no. You asked again, She said no, but you planted a seed. The seed grew. You literally planted a seed of evil in your wife’s mind and it grew. She started to think about how it might be fun to screw old Hal the pal, and decided….. you know what, idiot wants me to do it, it sounds interesting, why not???? You reaped what you sowed. 

So she did, it probably wasn’t all that to her, because if it was she’d probably have started a secret affair with him, and divorced you.

BUT, you lucked out again and your wife still loves YOU, and instead of thanking your lucky stars you still have a wife after doing something so stupid, you want to let this eat at your mind and wind up causing your wife distress it.
I think this is a second idiotic mistake in your part. The next time this crap comes up in your mind, buy your wife some flowers or take her on a fun outing, and build some good memories with her, and kick out this bogus retroactive jealousy you have allowed your own mind to concoct. You’ve let your mind screw you over and cause you to screw up once already. Now you’ve let it screw you twice by dragging this stuff up again. Are you going for the dumbass Trifecta????

best let this sleeping dog lie.


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## BigDaddyNY

My stance on swinging is clear, no go and and I'll never recommended it. That said I realize people do it. 

I think the problem is that you went into it like a total amateur. Neither you nor the couple that you engaged with had any idea what they were doing. I think if you had a couple that knew what they were doing you would have been able to discuss the reality of it all, not the fantasy in your head. They would have also been able to help you actually set ground rules. I mean you said yourself that you and your wife talked, but you never covered the rules with the other couple. How dumb is that. You basically went over there and said let's ****. At the very least you should have done a little talking to people on forums like this or those dedicated to swinging. You went straight from fantasy to reality.

On top of your amateurish planning you also pushed your wife into it. Like @Evinrude58 said, you are sooooo lucky that you came out of this with a wife that still loves you and wants to stay married to you.


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## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> I think I get what you are getting and even though some here will continue to stick pins in your voodoo doll until the end of time since you desicrated the sacred idol of strict monogamy, I will share a little of my outlook on your dilemma here.
> 
> Here it is - chicks dig sex too and are just as pervy.
> 
> Throughout the world right now as we speak there are millions of hetero and lesbian sex acts taking place all over the world whether it be husbands/wives, unmarried lovers, hook ups from the bar, hookers and their jons, porno movie shoots, 3-somes, swinger swaps and orgies and Lord only what all else.
> 
> There are millions of them taking place right this second and the one thing every single one of those encounters has in them is a participating, consenting female. And the other thing that they all have in common is that female(s) at one point or another and to one degree for another, made at least one statement or one act of resistance.
> 
> As an example, my wife and I have been married for 26 years and have probably had thousands of sexual encounters, and in every last stinking one of them from our first kiss to our most recent sexual contact, she has made at least one, sometimes two or more token attempts at resistance whether it's reminding me that the kids are home (we've had kids for 20 years and yes I know when they are home) or tells me she needs to go to the bathroom or that there are dishes in the sink etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc EVERY SINGLE TIME SINCE DAY ONE.
> 
> We had made our own XXX videos. We've done it in every room and every piece of furniture in the house. We've been to swinger conventions and clubs and parties across the country. We've in club orgy rooms with dozens of naked bodies. But in every single instance there was at least one sentence or one statement of resistance or an eye roll or a head shake or some kind of snort of fiegned disgust or indignation.......... and then she drop her clothes and jump into the body pile.
> 
> This is what chicks do. It's part of the dance.
> 
> Let me put it this way - we all know rabbits are very prolific and they are always chasing each other around out in the yard. But has anyone ever actually seen them screwing in the wild? No. What happens is the boy rabbit approaches the girl rabbit and she takes a hop or two away and then stops and looks back to see if he is still interested.
> 
> He approaches her again and she takes another couple hops then stops and looks back. Rinse and repeat any number of times until she determines he is serious and worthy, he then slips under bushes, gives her a wink, she follows and lifts up her bunny tail.
> 
> This is the same thing. By Chick Code she HAD to initially say no. Otherwise she would have to tear up her Sisterhood Card.
> 
> There are literally millions of active swinging couples in the country at any given time and there are swinging wives swinging from chandeliers every weekend. The one thing they all have in common is they all gave an eye roll and a huff the first time it was brought up to them.
> 
> Don't let the moral majority here give you too bad of time. She accepted the offer and then went behind closed doors with your buddy BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO and she DTF.
> 
> The way I see it, YOU were the one that got cold feet and wussed out. She was playing the game.


Its really not 'what chicks do'. Most of us if we say no we mean no. Do you not think you sound a little like one of those people who say well she said no but I knew she meant yes so I carried on and had sex with her(raped her)?
I think what you are saying could be seen as excusing wrong behaviour because apparently women don't mean no when they say it. They do, they really do.


----------



## Diana7

BigDaddyNY said:


> My stance on swinging is clear, no go and and I'll never recommended it. That said I realize people do it.
> 
> I think the problem is that you went into it like a total amateur. Neither you nor the couple that you engaged with had any idea what they were doing. I think if you had a couple that knew what they were doing you would have been able to discuss the reality of it all, not the fantasy in your head. They would have also been able to help you actually set ground rules. I mean you said yourself that you and your wife talked, but you never covered the rules with the other couple. How dumb is that. You basically went over there and said let's ****. At the very least you should have done a little talking to people on forums like this or those dedicated to swinging. You went straight from fantasy to reality.
> 
> On top of your amateurish planning you also pushed your wife into it. Like @Evinrude58 said, you are sooooo lucky that you came out of this with a wife that still loves you and wants to stay married to you.


In her position a lot of wives would have lost all respect for their husband if he asked for this.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

oldshirt said:


> There are millions of them taking place right this second and the one thing every single one of those encounters has in them is a participating, consenting female. And the other thing that they all have in common is that female(s) at one point or another and to one degree for another, made at least one statement or one act of resistance.
> 
> As an example, my wife and I have been married for 26 years and have probably had thousands of sexual encounters, and in every last stinking one of them from our first kiss to our most recent sexual contact, she has made at least one, sometimes two or more token attempts at resistance whether it's reminding me that the kids are home (we've had kids for 20 years and yes I know when they are home) or tells me she needs to go to the bathroom or that there are dishes in the sink etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc EVERY SINGLE TIME SINCE DAY ONE.
> 
> We had made our own XXX videos. We've done it in every room and every piece of furniture in the house. We've been to swinger conventions and clubs and parties across the country. We've in club orgy rooms with dozens of naked bodies. But in every single instance there was at least one sentence or one statement of resistance or an eye roll or a head shake or some kind of snort of fiegned disgust or indignation.......... and then she drop her clothes and jump into the body pile.
> 
> This is what chicks do. It's part of the dance.


This is a ridiculous assertion. No woman ever initiates if what you say is true. My wife and I hadn't had sex for over a week because I had covid. I came out of isolation today and we had sex twice, no was never uttered once, nor was there any resistance. The second time around she couldn't get my clothes off me fast enough. There was less that zero resistance. She couldn't get me on top of her fast enough. I bet that is going on millions of times right now too.


----------



## manwithnoname

OP, try to carry on with your wife like things were from before this mistake, if it was a good marriage. Drop trying to find out more. You said that she admitted having an orgasm, and now she says she doesn't think he could get it up, and doesn't think he entered. 
She's trying to soften things to get you to forget about it, which you probably should do at this point. 
Plus you had two accounts from when you opened the door. One was they were sitting there talking, the other was them going at it. If it was the second, if her latest comment is true, was he just dry humping?


----------



## Anastasia6

[/QUOTE]

This is the same thing. By Chick Code she HAD to initially say no. Otherwise she would have to tear up her Sisterhood Card. 

[/QUOTE]
Says every rapist. Please stop with the mantra that no doesn't mean no. That women are just teasing.

She said no. He should have left it at that. Yes she did say yes after. So I'm not implying rape. But it does indicate she never really was into it in the first place.

OP if you want to know if she was into it it's easy.... Did she ask to do it again?


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> Its really not 'what chicks do'. Most of us if we say no we mean no. Do you not think you sound a little like one of those people who say well she said no but I knew she meant yes so I carried on and had sex with her(raped her)?
> I think what you are saying could be seen as excusing wrong behaviour because apparently women don't mean no when they say it. They do, they really do.





BigDaddyNY said:


> This is a ridiculous assertion. No woman ever initiates if what you say is true.


This is the same thing. By Chick Code she HAD to initially say no. Otherwise she would have to tear up her Sisterhood Card.

[/QUOTE]
Says every rapist. Please stop with the mantra that no doesn't mean no. That women are just teasing.

She said no. He should have left it at that. Yes she did say yes after. So I'm not implying rape. But it does indicate she never really was into it in the first place.

OP if you want to know if she was into it it's easy.... Did she ask to do it again?
[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying no doesn't mean no. 

I'm saying the reality of the dance of sexuality is there is often some form of resistance/hesitation/push back..... whatever you want to call it. 

There is the hard no. 

But there is often the, "Really? now?"

And there is the, "Not yet, try harder."

And there is often just the dance that is part of the flirtation and banter and just part of the mating ritual that involves various degrees of resistance that builds the tension and anticipation. 

Very rare is it ever, "Wanna *____*?" completely out of the blue follow by an immediate, " Let's shall!" and the pants hit the floor right then and there. 

I'm not talking about actual hard no's or someone truly not wanting to do something. I'm talking about the knee-jerk, token resistance and hesitation and perhaps some flirtations push back that is part of the mating dance. 

I agree that he royally screwed this all up and couldn't have blown it any more if he tried. 

But the actual facts of the events do not bear out that she did not want to do it or that she was not game. The actual events of the incident show that she was DTF and was walking the walk and going for it. 

He was actually the one that choked and chickened out when his porn fantasies weren't playing out like he had in his head.


----------



## Divinely Favored

plastow said:


> why especially after 50 years.i guess your a younger person who thinks older people should not try anything different in sex.because we had been married and very happy until this ill judged episode,we felt we were strong enough to be able to try it.it was wrong and we know that but the thrill before was incredible and yes us oldies still want and have sex its not just for you young uns


More like why would you take a chance to blow up something so rare now a days.


----------



## Talker67

Dude. if you ASK your wife to boff another guy, you have absolutely ZERO right to turn around after the fact and say you did not want her to do it!


----------



## Numb26

Talker67 said:


> Dude. if you ASK your wife to boff another guy, you have absolutely ZERO right to turn around after the fact and say you did not want her to do it!


Again I ask, why would you even ask that?


----------



## Married but Happy

Diana7 said:


> In her position a lot of wives would have lost all respect for their husband if he asked for this.


Yet, countless millions (just in the last year!) have not, and have willingly and happily gone along with it. Sure, many have or will lose respect for their husbands over this. So what?


----------



## Married but Happy

Numb26 said:


> Again I ask, why would you even ask that?


Yeah, I agree. I don't get it either, but that's _one_ area where we won't go; there are many others we've discussed and tried - successfully.


----------



## Young at Heart

plastow said:


> i posted my problems earlier this month about my personal problem with our swap which went badly wqrong for me.
> 
> *this is an observation about the answers* i got and
> 
> ......*most said my wife had no blame in it.*
> 
> .....ok my part is over then (at the point where you asked her to swap multiple times) but she had the power to say yes or no i didnt so when she said yes she knew for sure it would happen but until then i had no power to put it into action until she said ok.
> 
> ......so *who is really to blame me for asking or her for instigating* what she then knew would happen.
> 
> seems* the guy always gets the blame.but he has no power* its the woman who decides to do it.just a thought .i,m not blaming anyone but i think its time this was said.women have the veto on it all the way


Asked and answered (as they say).

I think you are trying to rewrite history or at least hope you get a different answer to feel better about your role in the mess. That is my observation.

You are both adults and have free will. You asked. Now choose your words carefully. Did she "consent" or did she "instigate?" In the big picture does it really matter? You do know she didn't say "let's do this immediately" the first time you asked her to swing. At what point does repeatedly asking finally beat a person down to do something they know they probably shouldn't do. Does that sound like "instigating" to you?



> we had used this scenario (sex with another man) many times in fantasy and during sex my wife often said she would love to do it.but thats a fantasy and one we should have stayed with but we tried it for some it works for others it doesnt


Exactly, you role played this with your wife. Yes, after you suggested it become a reality, it took more time (even if that was 3 days) before she said yes. You knew by the above quote that there could be problems (and there were for you) but to you it still seemed worth the risk until you experienced reality.

Yes, you both messed up, but at least she was doing something she thought her husband asked her to do. I think in the other post you said she said something like, let's get this done or over with. Yes, you wanted to watch and not be left out, but do you honestly know what she wanted and/or what the OM wanted? Do you know if the OM's wife suggested that they "get a room" so she could not have to watch them or so she could have had some imagined quality time with you? There are lots of variables and since she didn't suggest swapping or jump at the change when first discussed, I put most of the responsibility for what happened on your shoulders. There are consequences to our actions and we need to take responsibility for them. She is not blameless in the mess your marriage now is, but my perspective is you started it so you need to own it and commit to fixing the mess. It will take both your and your wife's commitment to fixing the problems now in your marriage.

Good luck.


----------



## oldshirt

plastow said:


> why especially after 50 years.i guess your a younger person who thinks older people should not try anything different in sex.because we had been married and very happy until this ill judged episode,we felt we were strong enough to be able to try it.it was wrong and we know that but the thrill before was incredible and yes us oldies still want and have sex its not just for you young uns


I don't think anyone has issue that you were willing to try something different. 

As far as I'm concerned, as long as 80 year olds are of sound mind approaching sound minded consenting adults, I'm all for giving it their best shot. 

But my issue is how much research and looking into this did you do? How many books and informational websites on swinging did you read? Did you seek out any swinging forums and pose questions in their "beginner" section and have experienced, knowledgable swingers discuss this stuff with you?

You say you asked your wife 3 times, but how many actual open heart to heart conversations did you have about it? Did you have heart to heart discussions on what kind of rules and boundaries and parameters did you have going into this?

I don't have an issue with 70 year olds swinging from the chandeliers as long as it is safe, responsible and consensual..... But I would hope 70 year olds would at least have some responsibility and smarts about it. 

The reason the people here are kind of indignant is not that tried to have some extra fun and excitement, but that it appears neither of you showed any semblance of responsibility or forethought.


----------



## Divinely Favored

She may be like my mom. You want to do something she is telling you you should not do. She would finally say, "Ok you want to do it! Go ahead! All the while knowing it is about to blow up in your face"


----------



## Young at Heart

Anastasia6 said:


> Yep her biggest mistake was trying to make him happy.


That might not have been her *biggest* mistake. 

Her biggest mistake might have been (choose one)

not setting relationship boundaries based on her marriage vows much earlier in their marriage
not viewing his desire for swapping as manifested in their role playing to be a triggering event for her to set a firm relationship boundary.
allowing the role playing to get out of hand to the point he started to want to turn the fantasy into a reality
letting him wear down her will to resist despite her better sense at his initial requests
not insisting on marriage counseling after the swap and subsequent emotional damage.

Just some thoughts.


----------



## Anastasia6

Young at Heart said:


> That might not have been her *biggest* mistake.
> 
> Her biggest mistake might have been (choose one)
> 
> not setting relationship boundaries based on her marriage vows much earlier in their marriage
> not viewing his desire for swapping as manifested in their role playing to be a triggering event for her to set a firm relationship boundary.
> allowing the role playing to get out of hand to the point he started to want to turn the fantasy into a reality
> letting him wear down her will to resist despite her better sense at his initial requests
> not insisting on marriage counseling after the swap and subsequent emotional damage.
> 
> Just some thoughts.


6. Divorcing him after realizing he didn't value her in the way she's like to be valued.

I mean the list could go on and on.

I've been on these forums a bunch and so often people talk about how if something is important to their partner they should try it. While I agree she should have said no the constant asking is a way of indicating something is important. So she tried it.

She should have said no. He shouldn't have ask more than once (maybe a second time like years later but not the next day).


----------



## Diana7

Married but Happy said:


> Yet, countless millions (just in the last year!) have not, and have willingly and happily gone along with it. Sure, many have or will lose respect for their husbands over this. So what?


The majority, those in faithful marriages, would probably loose some or all respect. I highly doubt that millions of women in very long faithful marriages would happily agree to anything like this. 
As Mr D says, adultery is never worth it.


----------



## CatholicDad

Regarding the title it ain’t “power” to swap- it’s more like a disorder… probably fueled by internet porn. Men’s real instinct is to love and protect their wives. Swapping isn’t about either of these. Swapping I think is more about hurting or humiliating them. In @plastow ’s case though she was empowered and he got hurt, ironically.


----------



## Married but Happy

Diana7 said:


> The majority, those in faithful marriages, would probably loose some or all respect. I highly doubt that millions of women in very long faithful marriages would happily agree to anything like this.
> As Mr D says, adultery is never worth it.


I'm sure _you_ don't believe it, but there _are_ literally millions of women in good marriages who are swingers. We met one such couple just yesterday.


----------



## jonty30

plastow said:


> i posted my problems earlier this month about my personal problem with our swap which went badly wqrong for me.this is an observation about the answers i got and most said my wife had no blame in it.i as the husband asked her if she would consider a swap ,she said no. but when i aksed her again a few days later she said i,m upset you would ask me but i will think about it.i left it for a dau then asked her again and she said i,m still thinking about it.then one morning in bed she just said yes ok i asked what she meant as we not talking about that at the time and she said the swap yes.but what i,m getting at is i aksed on several occasions,and she said she would think about it,ok my part is over then but she had the power to say yes or no i didnt so when she said yes she knew for sure it would happen but until then i had no power to put it into action until she said ok.so who is really to blame me for asking or her for instigating what she then knew would happen.seems the guy always gets the blame.but he has no power its the woman who decides to do it.just a thought .i,m not blaming anyone but i think its time this was said.women have the veto on it all the way


The answer to your question is whomever has the most power to end the marriage is the one who sets the tone of the marriage in all aspects.


----------



## Rus47

plastow said:


> *i posted my problems earlier this month about my personal problem with our swap which went badly wqrong for me.this is an observation about the answers i got and most said my wife had no blame in it.i*
> 
> its the woman who decides to do it.just a thought .i,m not blaming anyone but i think its time this was said.women have the veto on it all the way


Like a moth to the flame. Instead of putting this sad story fully behind you, you continue to cogitate on it. Very strange IMO. I am about your age. Granted, was never wild and crazy in my youth, wife n I lived (and live) a pretty staid and happy life. No drama, no swapping, no infidelity. Don't feel we missed anything but unhappiness and sadness. And we certainly have no desire to walk on some wild side as we approach the last roundup.

I think you need some therapy of some sort to get your head readjusted. To put all this teenage bs permanently in the rear view mirror, *start* treating YOUR wife with respect and kindness. * Stop* harassing her with hair-brained half-baked ideas you picked up from who knows where. Have you got loose from the "friend" or is he the one continuing to recycle this crap through your mind? For heaven's sake, you are in your seventh decade on this planet. If you wanted to live some wild existence you are about five decades too late. Settle down and cruise through what is left on this planet with some dignity. See I can tell you this because this isn't "ageism" from me, because am likely older than you are lol.


----------



## Numb26

Married but Happy said:


> I'm sure _you_ don't believe it, but there _are_ literally millions of women in good marriages who are swingers. We met one such couple just yesterday.


You have a list of these women? I need to avoid them


----------



## Anastasia6

plastow said:


> why especially after 50 years.i guess your a younger person who thinks older people should not try anything different in sex.because we had been married and very happy until this ill judged episode,we felt we were strong enough to be able to try it.it was wrong and we know that but the thrill before was incredible and yes us oldies still want and have sex its not just for you young uns


LOL almost all the people replying to you and telling you that what you did was idiotic are over 50. Most in long term marriages and many for whom they seek sexual pleasure and excitement.

So do what you do. Discredit anything that doesn't make YOU feel better. It's obvious you are looking to blame shift to your wife. It's also obvious you are still hung up on this. You've said you can't get it out of your head. But you aren't trying. You just want to circle the drain with this. You wife probably hasn't left cause well she's north of 70 and what's the point. She probably is wishing she married someone else.


----------



## jonty30

Numb26 said:


> You have a list of these women? I need to avoid them


You need church, son.


----------



## Numb26

jonty30 said:


> You need church, son.


I said to AVOID them 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Diana7

Married but Happy said:


> I'm sure _you_ don't believe it, but there _are_ literally millions of women in good marriages who are swingers. We met one such couple just yesterday.


One doesnt equal millions.


----------



## Evinrude58

What gets me is OP clearly wasn’t as fired up about banging his buddy’s old lady as he was watching his buddy boink his. It’s the weirdest thought process for me to imagine.

The worst possible image I could ever imagine is one of a guy boinking my wife. I’d rather see half of a worm in my apple after taking a bite.


----------



## jonty30

Evinrude58 said:


> What gets me is OP clearly wasn’t as fired up about banging his buddy’s old lady as he was watching his buddy boink his. It’s the weirdest thought process for me to imagine.
> 
> The worst possible image I could ever imagine is one of a guy boinking my wife. I’d rather see half of a worm in my apple after taking a bite.


Live porn.
I can't imagine doing this either. 
I think there is some imagining that you're watching some other guy's wife.


----------



## Numb26

jonty30 said:


> Live porn.


I think it's something else actually


----------



## Rus47

plastow said:


> why especially after 50 years.i guess your a younger person who thinks older people should not try anything different in sex.because we had been married and very happy until this ill judged episode,we felt we were strong enough to be able to try it.it was wrong and we know that but the thrill before was incredible and yes us *oldies still want and have sex its not just for you young uns*


Lol. For sure! Wife n I been married longer than you, bet we are as active and varied as you two. We are more than enough for one another!

Just keep running down this road and you will lose what you already have!


----------



## Talker67

as far as buyers remorse after you watch your wife getting laid with some random dude you encouraged her to find.....

there is an old time saying you need to remember:










in other words, no whining about the choice you made afterwards


----------



## Divinely Favored

Evinrude58 said:


> What gets me is OP clearly wasn’t as fired up about banging his buddy’s old lady as he was watching his buddy boink his. It’s the weirdest thought process for me to imagine.
> 
> The worst possible image I could ever imagine is one of a guy boinking my wife. I’d rather see half of a worm in my apple after taking a bite.


Yeah ..if I saw that, I'm afraid he will end up like Leroy Brown- jigsaw puzzle with couple of pieces gone. God gave me a VERY monogamous woman to protect other men.


----------



## manfromlamancha

OP you said your wife enjoyed it - how could she if the other guy couldn't get it up? In fact this cannot have been much fun for either of the women because neither of the men could "rise to the occasion" from what you have said. What did the other guy's wife have to say about all of this? Had they done this before?


----------



## Benbutton

I'll choose a different scenario in an attempt to show the logic here - 

Me : "hey hun want to go to the grocery store?"
Her : "NO"
Me : "you sure you don't want to go to the grocery store?"
Her : "I dont want to"
Me : "sure about that?"
Her : "Well ok"
Me : "awesome"

She then goes to the grocery store.

Me : "why did you go to the grocery store?"

Priceless.


----------



## Diana7

Divinely Favored said:


> Yeah ..if I saw that, I'm afraid he will end up like Leroy Brown- jigsaw puzzle with couple of pieces gone. God gave me a VERY monogamous woman to protect other men.


That's why this is sad because I see part of a husband's role as being one of protecting and cherishing his wife. 
Wanting to see another man having sex with her is neither of those things. 
It's a sad story where fantasies were put into practice and it ended in disaster.


----------



## aine

plastow said:


> we had used this scenario many times in fantasy and during sex my wife often said she would love to do it.but thats a fantasy and one we should have stayed with but we tried it for some it works for others it doesnt


Enough to blow up your marriage. I think this was more your fantasy than hers. It shows when she rejected the idea so many times but you kept pestering her and she gave in. For an older man, you are a fool! Any women who is not fully on board from the get go, goes along with it to make her man happy that is what she did.

However, she also realized that her man doesn't love and cherish her the way he ought to. You played with fire and got burnt, now own it and deal with it and stop whinging about it.


----------



## aine

plastow said:


> yes she did,very much so


See that comment there, you did this, now deal with it


----------



## Wolfman1968

Is it my imagination, or does it seem that there are a lot of swinger/wife swapping/fetish kind of threads on here lately?


----------



## Diana7

Wolfman1968 said:


> Is it my imagination, or does it seem that there are a lot of swinger/wife swapping/fetish kind of threads on here lately?


Yes.


----------



## Dillinger

These two threads have had tons of people pushing their version of morality at you. Every single one of them have asked their partner more than once for something after receiving the initial no.

I've never played with the fire you played with, and most likely never will. 

Having said that, the issue you came here with was that you and your partner had made a plan. You were going to have sex with these other two people while you were all in the same room. You were going to do a thing together. All the zealots on here think you deserved what you got because they believe in monogamy. But they're ignoring the idea that the two of you went in with a plan, and when your back was turned, she changed the plan. 

Running off to the other room for couples play is a different thing than the two of you had agreed to. There's no getting around that, and unless I'm reading you wrong, that's where the issue really came up for you. 

Leave all that stuff in the past where it belongs. You've got a partner that you love, and that loves you back. That's what life's about. Find a way to let it go or you'll end up miserable.


----------



## Married but Happy

Diana7 said:


> One doesnt equal millions.


A little research shows that there are millions who are members of just _one_ web site, and there are hundreds of web sites devoted to swingers (although most have just tens of thousands of members). But your comparative math skills aren't bad.


----------



## Married but Happy

Numb26 said:


> You have a list of these women? I need to avoid them


I don't have a list for your neighborhood.


----------



## jonty30

Married but Happy said:


> I don't have a list for your neighborhood.


You could.

https://www.duckduckgo.com/


----------



## Married but Happy

jonty30 said:


> You could.
> 
> https://www.duckduckgo.com/


Canada is a big place (I used to live there)! I only know a few swingers from Canada who've visited Florida when I lived there.


----------



## Young at Heart

Evinrude58 said:


> What gets me is OP clearly wasn’t as fired up about banging his buddy’s old lady as he was watching his buddy boink his. It’s the weirdest thought process for me to imagine.......


I can't imagine how humiliated the other woman was mentally prepare herself and then to offer herself to the OP and have him so obsessed/distracted that he leaves her to walk in on her husband and the OP's wife. That poor woman has feelings and I can't imagine it not seeming a little like being sexually rejected. I mean what the OP's wife, the best friend husband, and friend's wife must have all felt like when the OP "changed his mind." What must they have all thought of the OP?


----------



## Talker67

Diana7 said:


> That's why this is sad because I see part of a husband's role as being one of protecting and cherishing his wife.
> Wanting to see another man having sex with her is neither of those things.
> It's a sad story where fantasies were put into practice and it ended in disaster.


well....perhaps he wanted to see her have a wild orgasm. In other words, he was thinking of her sexual health and wanting her to get off. (i am ignoring that he already admitted he had voyeuristic goals).

I suppose someone could weave that sort of reasoning in their heads as to why they wanted to see their lady getting laid with someone else. And if that lady was especially horny, and possibly he was not equiped to fully fulfill her...i could see him thinking that too was a justification.

btw, is anyone else not buying the OP wife's story that "he could not get it up and did not insert it"? i bet he inserted it just fine.


----------



## Talker67

Wolfman1968 said:


> Is it my imagination, or does it seem that there are a lot of swinger/wife swapping/fetish kind of threads on here lately?


you are not imagining it. it all started two months ago here.


----------



## jonty30

Talker67 said:


> well....perhaps he wanted to see her have a wild orgasm. In other words, he was thinking of her sexual health and wanting her to get off. (i am ignoring that he already admitted he had voyeuristic goals).
> 
> I suppose someone could weave that sort of reasoning in their heads as to why they wanted to see their lady getting laid with someone else. And if that lady was especially horny, and possibly he was not equiped to fully fulfill her...i could see him thinking that too was a justification.
> 
> btw, is anyone else not buying the OP wife's story that "he could not get it up and did not insert it"? i bet he inserted it just fine.


My thinking is that it may have been the OP's buddy that got the ball rolling. If so, he would have been physically fine.


----------



## Talker67

jonty30 said:


> My thinking is that it may have been the OP's buddy that got the ball rolling. If so, he would have been physically fine.


and it is fairly likely that she pursued the buddy after the one time he knew about. i mean she already had full permission to do so, and he was acting pretty immature after it happened.


----------



## jonty30

Talker67 said:


> and it is fairly likely that she pursued the buddy after the one time he knew about. i mean she already had full permission to do so, and he was acting pretty immature after it happened.


It would certainly be a danger of that, now that the horse is out.


----------



## manwithnoname

OP's wife is trying to minimize what happened with her latest account of what happened. The whole time not having any recollection of what happened, now she says he didn't enter. Unless she had a vibrator or was using her hand, how did she have the orgasm she already admitted to?


----------



## jonty30

manwithnoname said:


> OP's wife is trying to minimize what happened with her latest account of what happened. The whole time not having any recollection of what happened, now she says he didn't enter. Unless she had a vibrator or was using her hand, how did she have the orgasm she already admitted to?


We can't blame her for that. It wouldn't resolve the issue at hand if she gave details. It could make it worse.

Would it help him to know his buddy took her to places she has never gone and she now has to push back thoughts of wanting to do it again?


----------



## manwithnoname

jonty30 said:


> We can't blame her for that. It wouldn't resolve the issue at hand if she gave details. It could make it worse.
> 
> Would it help him to know his buddy took her to places she has never gone and she now has to push back thoughts of wanting to do it again?


No, can't blame her, she's trying to make it all go away and he won't let it go. Changing her story doesn't help either, probably makes it worse. She should have stuck with the can't remember story.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Diana7 said:


> That's why this is sad because I see part of a husband's role as being one of protecting and cherishing his wife.
> Wanting to see another man having sex with her is neither of those things.
> It's a sad story where fantasies were put into practice and it ended in disaster.


I can't wrap my head around people having fantasies of others. All my fantasies are my wife and I. Then again I consider fantasizing about other women as adultery of the heart.
If my wife fantasized about others I would show her the door. Done!

To catch a guy with her...I'm afraid I would go all Hannibal Lecter on his ass.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

If OP doesn't just close the door on this tried and failed activity and just let it die, he's keeping it active because of selfish reasons.


----------



## Blondilocks

I don't know why the wife even engages in this conversation anymore. Just tell him to pound sand. He is the one who neglected to sort this out with his pal beforehand.


----------



## manwithnoname

Blondilocks said:


> I don't know why the wife even engages in this conversation anymore. Just tell him to pound sand. He is the one who neglected to sort this out with his pal beforehand.


But didn't he discuss staying in the same room, with his wife? She went to another room with the door closed regardless. 
I'm not blaming her, it's his fault for bringing it up in the first place, but not every detail is his fault.


----------



## Blondilocks

manwithnoname said:


> But didn't he discuss staying in the same room, with his wife? She went to another room with the door closed regardless.
> I'm not blaming her, it's his fault for bringing it up in the first place, but not every detail is his fault.


He discussed it with his wife but not the other couple. Story is both men went to the loo and when OP came out his wife and his pal were already getting busy. He has no idea what his wife said and what his pal said about the closed door. When you fail to plan, you plan to fail.


----------



## Rus47

Diana7 said:


> That's why this is sad because I see part of a husband's role as being one of protecting and cherishing his wife.
> *Wanting to see another man having sex with her is neither of those things.*
> It's a sad story where fantasies were put into practice and it ended in disaster.


Something about this fantasy just seems really "off" to me I mean it is against basic biological imperatives in all species, the male's goal being always to get *HIS* genes into the next generation. Usually the males fight (sometimes to the death) for breeding rights, they only get very p!st seeing another male doing their female. Lots of video on NatGeo wild of how primates behave. ONE male in the group breeds and he will prevent all other males in the group from breeding.

I *CAN* understand the one male with more than one female fantasy (for the male lol). That is the norm in most species and was the norm among humans in ancient times ( and still is the norm in some cultures even today ). I always recall the student from Africa from my college days recounting for all of us his family where his father had 17 wives.


----------



## ConanHub

This is the same thing. By Chick Code she HAD to initially say no. Otherwise she would have to tear up her Sisterhood Card.

[/QUOTE]
Says every rapist. Please stop with the mantra that no doesn't mean no. That women are just teasing.

She said no. He should have left it at that. Yes she did say yes after. So I'm not implying rape. But it does indicate she never really was into it in the first place.

OP if you want to know if she was into it it's easy.... Did she ask to do it again?
[/QUOTE]
He had dropped it and it was her that brought it up later.

There are a lot of situations like this involving all sorts of decisions between couples.

I can't count the times this has happened between me and Mrs. Conan both with her instigating or myself.

We of course never brought up swapping but in many other things, we did this dance with both of us leading at different times.

I probably am the instigator more than her with her saying no initially, then thinking about it, then coming to me being all for it after thinking on it for a while.

I'm in no way trying to absolve OP from his part in this as he definitely holds the greater portion of the responsibility.

His wife obviously wouldn't have brought this up in the first place and it appears she hasn't brought it up again, even gaslighting her husband about it and saying she doesn't remember anything because she does see the damage this has done and she just as obviously isn't going anywhere.

The process that they both got themselves into this mess is a fairly common process however that is played out daily between couples around the world, just not involving swapping with most.😉


----------



## ConanHub

Blondilocks said:


> When you fail to plan, you plan to fail.


I thought this sounded like the Sphinx from Mystery Men but was pleasantly surprised to find Benjamin Franklin behind it.🙂


----------



## ConanHub

Wolfman1968 said:


> Is it my imagination, or does it seem that there are a lot of swinger/wife swapping/fetish kind of threads on here lately?


There might be a lot of couples that have tried something like this and it bites them but maybe more are talking about it these days.


----------



## ConanHub

Dillinger said:


> These two threads have had tons of people pushing their version of morality at you. Every single one of them have asked their partner more than once for something after receiving the initial no.
> 
> I've never played with the fire you played with, and most likely never will.
> 
> Having said that, the issue you came here with was that you and your partner had made a plan. You were going to have sex with these other two people while you were all in the same room. You were going to do a thing together. All the zealots on here think you deserved what you got because they believe in monogamy. But they're ignoring the idea that the two of you went in with a plan, and when your back was turned, she changed the plan.
> 
> Running off to the other room for couples play is a different thing than the two of you had agreed to. There's no getting around that, and unless I'm reading you wrong, that's where the issue really came up for you.
> 
> Leave all that stuff in the past where it belongs. You've got a partner that you love, and that loves you back. That's what life's about. Find a way to let it go or you'll end up miserable.


Thank you @Dillinger ! Great post!


----------



## ConanHub

Married but Happy said:


> I don't have a list for your neighborhood.


This conversation got weird fast! 🙂

There are, of course, millions in a world of billions.

It's not like a monogamous person is going to be hunted down by a swinger anyway, like a creature with fangs hiding behind the bushes.😵‍💫


----------



## Numb26

ConanHub said:


> This conversation got weird fast! 🙂
> 
> There are, of course, millions in a world of billions.
> 
> It's not like a monogamous person is going to be hunted down by a swinger anyway, like a creature with fangs hiding behind the bushes.😵‍💫


I'm not so sure in your case. It could happen since you are such a sexy beast. 🤔


----------



## ConanHub

Numb26 said:


> I'm not so sure in your case. It could happen since you are such a sexy beast. 🤔


That's why I wear garlic...😉


----------



## ConanHub

Young at Heart said:


> I can't imagine how humiliated the other woman was mentally prepare herself and then to offer herself to the OP and have him so obsessed/distracted that he leaves her to walk in on her husband and the OP's wife. That poor woman has feelings and I can't imagine it not seeming a little like being sexually rejected. I mean what the OP's wife, the best friend husband, and friend's wife must have all felt like when the OP "changed his mind." What must they have all thought of the OP?


That whole relationship dynamic has my brain scrambled!

I'm caught wondering if they are still as close?

Do the wives get along?

@plastow , how is everyone getting along?

Also, has your sex life and intimacy been negatively impacted between your wife and you?

How has she seemed to you?


----------



## manwithnoname

Blondilocks said:


> He discussed it with his wife but not the other couple. Story is both men went to the loo and when OP came out his wife and his pal were already getting busy. He has no idea what his wife said and what his pal said about the closed door. When you fail to plan, you plan to fail.


”We need to wait for my husband”

Is that so difficult?


----------



## Numb26

manwithnoname said:


> ”We need to wait for my husband”
> 
> Is that so difficult?


She obviously didn't want to wait......which says everything


----------



## BigDaddyNY

manwithnoname said:


> ”We need to wait for my husband”
> 
> Is that so difficult?


The whole thing was a **** show the way they "planned" and executed it. This story could easily be posted on a swinger site as a prime example of how NOT to do it. At one point I thought this story was totally fictitious. I mean how could a couple that has been married so long be this stupid. Then I remembered, a lot people are really good at doing dumb stuff.


----------



## oldshirt

ConanHub said:


> Do the wives get along?


I'm willing to bet the two women have had a good laugh over what fools the men were over this. 

After all here were a couple 70 year old men acting like a couple 14 year olds watching porn and thinking they were going to play porn star but when H-Hour came they folded like a load of laundry. 

These chicks are not angry or upset with each other. They are laughing at and mocking the ineptitude of the guys.

The wives were DTF here, it was the guys that couldn't stand up to the pressure and caved....... and I assume that the women kind of knew this all along and so they let them have their little fantasy game to basically show them that they were over their heads. 

The women had a good yuck yuck over this and taught them their lesson.


----------



## Keepin-my-head-up

Sounds like you are most upset that you didn’t get to watch and that she got to enjoy herself while you couldn’t.
Mainly because your enjoyment would have been from watching her.

Well, unless you want to set it up again and she is willing, that Boat has sailed.

it happened 7 years ago.
I’m sure you must have played the blame game with her for awhile now and getting nowhere.

so now it is time to get help to get over it or get out.
Of course there is a 3rd option.
To continue dwelling on this for another 7+ years


----------



## Diana7

Divinely Favored said:


> I can't wrap my head around people having fantasies of others. All my fantasies are my wife and I. Then again I consider fantasizing about other women as adultery of the heart.
> If my wife fantasized about others I would show her the door. Done!
> 
> To catch a guy with her...I'm afraid I would go all Hannibal Lecter on his ass.


Agreed, I have no interest of ever having sex with another guy nor even imagining it. Holds no appeal whatsoever.


----------



## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> That whole relationship dynamic has my brain scrambled!
> 
> I'm caught wondering if they are still as close?
> 
> Do the wives get along?
> 
> @plastow , how is everyone getting along?
> 
> Also, has your sex life and intimacy been negatively impacted between your wife and you?
> 
> How has she seemed to you?


I can't help thinking that for many couples their friendship would have gone really weird and awkward after this happened.


----------



## oldshirt

BigDaddyNY said:


> The whole thing was a **** show the way they "planned" and executed it. This story could easily be posted on a swinger site as a prime example of how NOT to do it. At one point I thought this story was totally fictitious. I mean how could a couple that has been married so long be this stupid. Then I remembered, a lot people are really good at doing dumb stuff.


YES. 

This is all on Page #1 of Lesson #1 in The Swinger's Handbook. 

I too initially thought that this story was not for real. Maybe once one is in their 70s they think they know it all and don't need to look into it or discuss it much. Or maybe they have a long standing history of doing impulsive, dumb stuff and the wives just thought, "here they go again. let's let them fail in order to see their own folly." Or maybe they're getting a little early cognitive impairment. 

But even from a former swinger's perspective, this was ridiculous.


----------



## Evinrude58

As an older, more experienced person than my younger self, I do believe entertaining thoughts of enjoying another woman— weakens at least a little of one’s feelings for their spouse. I personally was lucky enough to very seldom have those thoughts because my life has always been busy fishing, making money, working on projects, spending time with my family. I never had time to feed the wolf. We humans really are capable of making a lot of our own dreams come true. Best not to dream too much of things that are not something that makes our lives better.

I would have thought at 70, most men would have figured that out. OP messed up. He still has his wife, he still has a life that apparently is good. Why not get busy with making daydreams of special Memories come true with his wife, rather than by feeding this wolf he’s letting grow too big to handle.
Feed good thoughts, and shrivel up the bad ones.

Whatever happened is in the past, and OP’s wife has never shown any propensity to build a relationship with anyone but OP. OP, count your blessings. Stop dwelling on things you can’t change. It happened. There isn’t anything you can do about it other than mdd add king the present a helluva lot better than the past. You don’t need a therapist. You need to get back to living in the present, 24 hrs a day.


----------



## Mr.Married

I am late to the party and admit I didn’t read past the first post.

What you are doing is creating big problem for the present about something in the long past. 

LET .... IT ...... GO !!!!!!!!!


----------



## plastow

Numb26 said:


> If my partner ever decides that what I give her is not enough she always knows where the door is.





BigDaddyNY said:


> My stance on swinging is clear, no go and and I'll never recommended it. That said I realize people do it.
> 
> I think the problem is that you went into it like a total amateur. Neither you nor the couple that you engaged with had any idea what they were doing. I think if you had a couple that knew what they were doing you would have been able to discuss the reality of it all, not the fantasy in your head. They would have also been able to help you actually set ground rules. I mean you said yourself that you and your wife talked, but you never covered the rules with the other couple. How dumb is that. You basically went over there and said let's ****. At the very least you should have done a little talking to people on forums like this or those dedicated to swinging. You went straight from fantasy to reality.
> 
> On top of your amateurish planning you also pushed your wife into it. Like @Evinrude58 said, you are sooooo lucky that you came out of this with a wife that still loves you and wants to stay married to you.


thank you for the reply i will not try to defend myself i am now realise what you have just told me makes perfect sense


----------



## plastow

Evinrude58 said:


> As an older, more experienced person than my younger self, I do believe entertaining thoughts of enjoying another woman— weakens at least a little of one’s feelings for their spouse. I personally was lucky enough to very seldom have those thoughts because my life has always been busy fishing, making money, working on projects, spending time with my family. I never had time to feed the wolf. We humans really are capable of making a lot of our own dreams come true. Best not to dream too much of things that are not something that makes our lives better.
> 
> I would have thought at 70, most men would have figured that out. OP messed up. He still has his wife, he still has a life that apparently is good. Why not get busy with making daydreams of special Memories come true with his wife, rather than by feeding this wolf he’s letting grow too big to handle.
> Feed good thoughts, and shrivel up the bad ones.
> 
> Whatever happened is in the past, and OP’s wife has never shown any propensity to build a relationship with anyone but OP. OP, count your blessings. Stop dwelling on things you can’t change. It happened. There isn’t anything you can do about it other than mdd add king the present a helluva lot better than the past. You don’t need a therapist. You need to get back to living in the present, 24 hrs a day.


good advice and some i will follow


----------



## plastow

manwithnoname said:


> OP, try to carry on with your wife like things were from before this mistake, if it was a good marriage. Drop trying to find out more. You said that she admitted having an orgasm, and now she says she doesn't think he could get it up, and doesn't think he entered.
> She's trying to soften things to get you to forget about it, which you probably should do at this point.
> Plus you had two accounts from when you opened the door. One was they were sitting there talking, the other was them going at it. If it was the second, if her latest comment is true, was he just dry humping?


he possibly was .i am trying to get this out of my system and coming in here has helped with some good advice although mostly its been hard to read but perfectly true so i,m either going to forget it from now.


----------



## oldshirt

Wolfman1968 said:


> Is it my imagination, or does it seem that there are a lot of swinger/wife swapping/fetish kind of threads on here lately?





ConanHub said:


> There might be a lot of couples that have tried something like this and it bites them but maybe more are talking about it these days.


The thread I started spun off of this OP's first thread, and then he came back and started this one. 

But I do think that this is going to be an increasing trend in the future going forward. It's becoming more prevalent in the media and in movies and TV and with the increasing prevalence of 3-somes and group sex in porn, it is not only going to become more prevalent in people trying it, but more people are going to asking about it and more willing to talk about it. 

Whether people here agree with it in or like it or not, it is going to be growing topic of discussion in the future.


----------



## ConanHub

oldshirt said:


> The thread I started spun off of this OP's first thread, and then he came back and started this one.
> 
> But I do think that this is going to be an increasing trend in the future going forward. It's becoming more prevalent in the media and in movies and TV and with the increasing prevalence of 3-somes and group sex in porn, it is not only going to become more prevalent in people trying it, but more people are going to asking about it and more willing to talk about it.
> 
> Whether people here agree with it in or like it or not, it is going to be growing topic of discussion in the future.


I hold the view that there is nothing new under the sun.

This isn't anything extraordinary, it's just being talked about more which isn't a bad thing in this barbarian's opinion.


----------



## Rus47

ConanHub said:


> I hold the view that there is nothing new under the sun.
> 
> This isn't anything extraordinary, it's just being talked about more which isn't a bad thing in this barbarian's opinion.


For sure. Just look at the artwork of the greek temples from thousands of years ago. The kuma sutara 2500 years ago is referenced on the recent Netflix Sex/Life series. Nothing new under the sun. It has all been tried thousands of times already. 

I was just thinking yesterday that have probably been intimate with same woman 10-20 THOUSAND times. So nothing new under the sun, or moon either.


----------



## Benbutton

oldshirt said:


> The thread I started spun off of this OP's first thread, and then he came back and started this one.
> 
> But I do think that this is going to be an increasing trend in the future going forward. It's becoming more prevalent in the media and in movies and TV and with the increasing prevalence of 3-somes and group sex in porn, it is not only going to become more prevalent in people trying it, but more people are going to asking about it and more willing to talk about it.
> 
> Whether people here agree with it in or like it or not, it is going to be growing topic of discussion in the future.


Dude...the Romans perfected this shyt, if not then the Greeks did before them. It's nothing new nor earth shattering.


----------



## oldshirt

[QUOTE="Benbutton said:


> Dude...the Romans perfected this shyt, if not then the Greeks did before them. It's nothing new nor earth shattering.


You're right, it's nothing new. I'm sure somewhere out there are cave drawings of big ol' orgies and such in the caveman days. In fact in those days it was probably the norm. 

It's always existed through the ages but at times more and at times less publicly accepted and talked about. 

We are in a time of public uptick currently. It is being presented more and more in pop culture and Netflix and movies and definitely in all internet domains ranging from traditional marriage forums like this to a wide variety of alternative lifestyle forums and website to porn. 

The generation coming into young adulthood now have basically grown up with serial monogamy, nonmonogamy and nontraditional relationships including LGBT communities as the norm. 

More and more people are considering it. More and more people are going to be asking about it. More and more people are going to be trying it. And more and more people are going to be running into issues with it and seeking advice as we go forward.


----------



## Quad73

Benbutton said:


> I'll choose a different scenario in an attempt to show the logic here -
> 
> Me : "hey hun want to go to the grocery store?"
> Her : "NO"
> Me : "you sure you don't want to go to the grocery store?"
> Her : "I dont want to"
> Me : "sure about that?"
> Her : "Well ok"
> Me : "awesome"
> 
> She then goes to the grocery store.
> 
> Me : "why did you go to the grocery store?"
> 
> Priceless.


You nailed it. The conversation did not have to go this way either... 

Conan mentioned how often these 'grocery store' conversations come up in their own relationship. They have in ours as well, and my wife has responded like this:

Me : "Hey hun want to go to the grocery store?"

Her : "HA! DEFINITELY NOT EVER, EVER. But what can we do that would satisfy your kink of wanting to go to the store with me? Maybe you or I could buy some exotic vegetable, that might be fun?? "

Me : "Sounds VERY nice, let me get on that! What kind of vegetables are we talkin'?"

No badgering, no hurt feelings, just immediate firm boundaries and respect, with a healthy dose of acceptance of your partner's desires / limits... and opportunities for some interesting sexploration. 

And who knows, maybe in a few years, the roles may get reversed.


----------



## LisaDiane

Benbutton said:


> I'll choose a different scenario in an attempt to show the logic here -
> 
> Me : "hey hun want to go to the grocery store?"
> Her : "NO"
> Me : "you sure you don't want to go to the grocery store?"
> Her : "I dont want to"
> Me : "sure about that?"
> Her : "Well ok"
> Me : "awesome"
> 
> She then goes to the grocery store.
> 
> Me : "why did you go to the grocery store?"
> 
> Priceless.


THIS is BRILLIANT!!!!!


----------



## LisaDiane

plastow said:


> i posted my problems earlier this month about my personal problem with our swap which went badly wqrong for me.this is an observation about the answers i got and most said my wife had no blame in it.i as the husband asked her if she would consider a swap ,she said no. but when i aksed her again a few days later she said i,m upset you would ask me but i will think about it.i left it for a dau then asked her again and she said i,m still thinking about it.then one morning in bed she just said yes ok i asked what she meant as we not talking about that at the time and she said the swap yes.but what i,m getting at is i aksed on several occasions,and she said she would think about it,ok my part is over then but she had the power to say yes or no i didnt so when she said yes she knew for sure it would happen but until then i had no power to put it into action until she said ok.so who is really to blame me for asking or her for instigating what she then knew would happen.seems the guy always gets the blame.but he has no power its the woman who decides to do it.just a thought .i,m not blaming anyone but i think its time this was said.women have the veto on it all the way


YOU GOT WHAT YOU WANTED and then regretted it. And now you are trying to blame shift because you can't handle that you did this to yourself.

Be careful what you wish for...you just might get it.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Young at Heart said:


> _*Her biggest mistake might have been (choose one)*_
> 
> _*not setting relationship boundaries based on her marriage vows much earlier in their marriage*_
> _*not viewing his desire for swapping as manifested in their role playing to be a triggering event for her to set a firm relationship boundary.*_
> _*allowing the role playing to get out of hand to the point he started to want to turn the fantasy into a reality*_
> _*letting him wear down her will to resist despite her better sense at his initial requests*_
> _*not insisting on marriage counseling after the swap and subsequent emotional damage.*_
> 
> _*Just some thoughts.*_


LOL....I get it.

It's all his WIFE'S fault and *he's* a victim. Got it.

For #1 in your list, you may have MISSED that they're in their *70's* and this just happened recently, so your suggestion that she should have "set up boundaries earlier in the marriage" as though she failed to do so makes no sense. For the last *50 years* there were boundaries, so they obviously HAD set boundaries up years ago.

For #3, apparently *SHE* should have nipped his role-playing in the bud because *she* should have had ESP and known that one day, *many *years in the future, he might want to make their sex fantasy a reality. Damn, she should have taken that mind-reading course years ago or bought herself a crazy 8 ball so she could have *foreseen* this coming to fruition in 2021. 😂

For #4, With the OP continually humping his wife's leg and REPEATEDLY asking her to bang his friend, guess what happened? She chose to break her own boundary. People foolishly _do_ that sometimes. I guess that's *her* fault for doing it, and he's totally innocent for hounding her to do it AND providing the friend to play with, as well.

For #5, it would seem *HE'S* the one with the issues, not her. Yet, it's *her* fault for not suggesting they see some therapist about HIS issues? LOL.

Honestly, why don't we just drag the OP's wife out into the town square and hang her in the stocks for her egregious sins? And the OP - that poor, poor VICTIM - how _WILL_ he survive this treacherous betrayal for which SHE is 100% to blame? 😜🤪😜🤪
.


----------



## manwithnoname

She'sStillGotIt said:


> LOL....I get it.
> 
> It's all his WIFE'S fault and *he's* a victim. Got it.
> 
> For #1 in your list, you may have MISSED that they're in their *70's* and this just happened recently, so your suggestion that she should have "set up boundaries earlier in the marriage" as though she failed to do so makes no sense. For the last *50 years* there were boundaries, so they obviously HAD set boundaries up years ago.
> 
> For #3, apparently *SHE* should have nipped his role-playing in the bud because *she* should have had ESP and known that one day, *many *years in the future, he might want to make their sex fantasy a reality. Damn, she should have taken that mind-reading course years ago or bought herself a crazy 8 ball so she could have *foreseen* this coming to fruition in 2021. 😂
> 
> For #4, With the OP continually humping his wife's leg and REPEATEDLY asking her to bang his friend, guess what happened? She chose to break her own boundary. People foolishly _do_ that sometimes. I guess that's *her* fault for doing it, and he's totally innocent for hounding her to do it AND providing the friend to play with, as well.
> 
> For #5, it would seem *HE'S* the one with the issues, not her. Yet, it's *her* fault for not suggesting they see some therapist about HIS issues? LOL.
> 
> Honestly, why don't we just drag the OP's wife out into the town square and hang her in the stocks for her egregious sins? And the OP - that poor, poor VICTIM - how _WILL_ he survive this treacherous betrayal for which SHE is 100% to blame? 😜🤪😜🤪
> .


You were always a little over the top and I was wondering if you lost your touch.

Nope, YouStillGotIt! 😀


----------



## Divinely Favored

[QUOTE="LisaDiane, post: 20453931, 

Be careful what you wish for...you just might get it.
[/QUOTE]

My wife said the exact same phrase this morning about this.


----------



## maquiscat

plastow said:


> i posted my problems earlier this month about my personal problem with our swap which went badly wqrong for me.this is an observation about the answers i got and most said my wife had no blame in it.i as the husband asked her if she would consider a swap ,she said no. but when i aksed her again a few days later she said i,m upset you would ask me but i will think about it.i left it for a dau then asked her again and she said i,m still thinking about it.then one morning in bed she just said yes ok i asked what she meant as we not talking about that at the time and she said the swap yes.but what i,m getting at is i aksed on several occasions,and she said she would think about it,ok my part is over then but she had the power to say yes or no i didnt so when she said yes she knew for sure it would happen but until then i had no power to put it into action until she said ok.so who is really to blame me for asking or her for instigating what she then knew would happen.seems the guy always gets the blame.but he has no power its the woman who decides to do it.just a thought .i,m not blaming anyone but i think its time this was said.women have the veto on it all the way


I went and looked at your other thread. You both bear responsibility and both had the power.

First off this is not an issue of the woman vs the man. At best it would be an issue of who asked first, by the logic you are presenting. If she had been the one to initially ask then, as you present things, you had the power. But in reality, it takes both your permissions to make such an event happen. You both had the power. You had the power to stop it at any time, and in fact you did. The very fact that she agreed puts as much blame on her as you for the overall situation.

In the end, I think that you are the one who messed up the most. It was your idea, and you dropped the ball on the communications aspect. You failed to ensure that all 4 of you were on the same page before anything started. You didn't account for variations, and I am willing to bet that you never even asked her what her preference were when it came to the details of the event. From the description, you seem to have thought that it would just all naturally work out and everyone would have a great time.


----------



## jonty30

Quad73 said:


> You nailed it. The conversation did not have to go this way either...
> 
> Conan mentioned how often these 'grocery store' conversations come up in their own relationship. They have in ours as well, and my wife has responded like this:
> 
> Me : "Hey hun want to go to the grocery store?"
> 
> Her : "HA! DEFINITELY NOT EVER, EVER. But what can we do that would satisfy your kink of wanting to go to the store with me? Maybe you or I could buy some exotic vegetable, that might be fun?? "
> 
> Me : "Sounds VERY nice, let me get on that! What kind of vegetables are we talkin'?"
> 
> No badgering, no hurt feelings, just immediate firm boundaries and respect, with a healthy dose of acceptance of your partner's desires / limits... and opportunities for some interesting sexploration.
> 
> And who knows, maybe in a few years, the roles may get reversed.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Someone close this thread, needs a mercy put down.


----------



## ConanHub

@jonty30 !!!???🤮


----------



## plastow

oldshirt said:


> The thread I started spun off of this OP's first thread, and then he came back and started this one.
> 
> But I do think that this is going to be an increasing trend in the future going forward. It's becoming more prevalent in the media and in movies and TV and with the increasing prevalence of 3-somes and group sex in porn, it is not only going to become more prevalent in people trying it, but more people are going to asking about it and more willing to talk about it.
> 
> Whether people here agree with it in or like it or not, it is going to be growing topic of discussion in the future.


i dont think i actually think this statement of mine is correct and i,m not blaming her it was just an observation looking at it from a different angle.we are talking a lot about it and i am much happier than i was.my wife is also much happier that ive now told her everything about how i feel.we both made mistakes mines much more so than hers but we will survive this and go on with whats been a very happy marriage.the mistake was made lots have been learned and now were putting it behind us and spend much more time talking and enjoying our love so despite lots of insults from a loot of people who have no idea what we are like.were going to be ok.oh to have a crystal ball eh?


----------



## ConanHub

plastow said:


> i dont think i actually think this statement of mine is correct and i,m not blaming her it was just an observation looking at it from a different angle.we are talking a lot about it and i am much happier than i was.my wife is also much happier that ive now told her everything about how i feel.we both made mistakes mines much more so than hers but we will survive this and go on with whats been a very happy marriage.the mistake was made lots have been learned and now were putting it behind us and spend much more time talking and enjoying our love so despite lots of insults from a loot of people who have no idea what we are like.were going to be ok.oh to have a crystal ball eh?


It's really cool that you two are talking more! Glad to hear it!


----------



## jonty30

plastow said:


> i dont think i actually think this statement of mine is correct and i,m not blaming her it was just an observation looking at it from a different angle.we are talking a lot about it and i am much happier than i was.my wife is also much happier that ive now told her everything about how i feel.we both made mistakes mines much more so than hers but we will survive this and go on with whats been a very happy marriage.the mistake was made lots have been learned and now were putting it behind us and spend much more time talking and enjoying our love so despite lots of insults from a loot of people who have no idea what we are like.were going to be ok.oh to have a crystal ball eh?


It's a lesson learned. Not all grass is greener on the other side.
How some live their lives is not meant for all of us to live that way.


----------



## happyhusband0005

oldshirt said:


> This is the same thing. By Chick Code she HAD to initially say no. Otherwise she would have to tear up her Sisterhood Card.


Says every rapist. Please stop with the mantra that no doesn't mean no. That women are just teasing.

She said no. He should have left it at that. Yes she did say yes after. So I'm not implying rape. But it does indicate she never really was into it in the first place.

OP if you want to know if she was into it it's easy.... Did she ask to do it again?
[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying no doesn't mean no. 

I'm saying the reality of the dance of sexuality is there is often some form of resistance/hesitation/push back..... whatever you want to call it. 

There is the hard no. 

But there is often the, "Really? now?"

And there is the, "Not yet, try harder."

And there is often just the dance that is part of the flirtation and banter and just part of the mating ritual that involves various degrees of resistance that builds the tension and anticipation. 

Very rare is it ever, "Wanna *____*?" completely out of the blue follow by an immediate, " Let's shall!" and the pants hit the floor right then and there. 

I'm not talking about actual hard no's or someone truly not wanting to do something. I'm talking about the knee-jerk, token resistance and hesitation and perhaps some flirtations push back that is part of the mating dance. 

I agree that he royally screwed this all up and couldn't have blown it any more if he tried. 

But the actual facts of the events do not bear out that she did not want to do it or that she was not game. The actual events of the incident show that she was DTF and was walking the walk and going for it. 

He was actually the one that choked and chickened out when his porn fantasies weren't playing out like he had in his head.
[/QUOTE]
I get where you're coming from with this and can't say this isn't a possibility, but I think the way he described the whole situation was more the wife being Down to shut her husband up than being enthusiastic and DTF. We've both run into these husbands who are totally over eager and clueless.


----------



## oldshirt

happyhusband0005 said:


> Says every rapist. Please stop with the mantra that no doesn't mean no. That women are just teasing.
> 
> She said no. He should have left it at that. Yes she did say yes after. So I'm not implying rape. But it does indicate she never really was into it in the first place.
> 
> OP if you want to know if she was into it it's easy.... Did she ask to do it again?


I'm not saying no doesn't mean no. 

I'm saying the reality of the dance of sexuality is there is often some form of resistance/hesitation/push back..... whatever you want to call it. 

There is the hard no. 

But there is often the, "Really? now?"

And there is the, "Not yet, try harder."

And there is often just the dance that is part of the flirtation and banter and just part of the mating ritual that involves various degrees of resistance that builds the tension and anticipation. 

Very rare is it ever, "Wanna *____*?" completely out of the blue follow by an immediate, " Let's shall!" and the pants hit the floor right then and there. 

I'm not talking about actual hard no's or someone truly not wanting to do something. I'm talking about the knee-jerk, token resistance and hesitation and perhaps some flirtations push back that is part of the mating dance. 

I agree that he royally screwed this all up and couldn't have blown it any more if he tried. 

But the actual facts of the events do not bear out that she did not want to do it or that she was not game. The actual events of the incident show that she was DTF and was walking the walk and going for it. 

He was actually the one that choked and chickened out when his porn fantasies weren't playing out like he had in his head.
[/QUOTE]
I get where you're coming from with this and can't say this isn't a possibility, but I think the way he described the whole situation was more the wife being Down to shut her husband up than being enthusiastic and DTF. We've both run into these husbands who are totally over eager and clueless.
[/QUOTE]


I agree with the clueless part and agree that the wives probably rolled their eyes, knew the guys wouldn’t really go through with and basically let the men would make fools of themselves to teach them a lesson. 

But I stand by the fact that when H-hour came, she was DTF and walking the walk.

What is my evidence??? - she got in the car, went to their house, went to the bedroom with the other guy, got nekkid and had sex with him. 

That’s my evidence.


----------



## happyhusband0005

oldshirt said:


> I'm not saying no doesn't mean no.
> 
> I'm saying the reality of the dance of sexuality is there is often some form of resistance/hesitation/push back..... whatever you want to call it.
> 
> There is the hard no.
> 
> But there is often the, "Really? now?"
> 
> And there is the, "Not yet, try harder."
> 
> And there is often just the dance that is part of the flirtation and banter and just part of the mating ritual that involves various degrees of resistance that builds the tension and anticipation.
> 
> Very rare is it ever, "Wanna *____*?" completely out of the blue follow by an immediate, " Let's shall!" and the pants hit the floor right then and there.
> 
> I'm not talking about actual hard no's or someone truly not wanting to do something. I'm talking about the knee-jerk, token resistance and hesitation and perhaps some flirtations push back that is part of the mating dance.
> 
> I agree that he royally screwed this all up and couldn't have blown it any more if he tried.
> 
> But the actual facts of the events do not bear out that she did not want to do it or that she was not game. The actual events of the incident show that she was DTF and was walking the walk and going for it.
> 
> He was actually the one that choked and chickened out when his porn fantasies weren't playing out like he had in his head.


I get where you're coming from with this and can't say this isn't a possibility, but I think the way he described the whole situation was more the wife being Down to shut her husband up than being enthusiastic and DTF. We've both run into these husbands who are totally over eager and clueless.
[/QUOTE]


I agree with the clueless part and agree that the wives probably rolled their eyes, knew the guys wouldn’t really go through with and basically let the men would make fools of themselves to teach them a lesson.

But I stand by the fact that when H-hour came, she was DTF and walking the walk.

What is my evidence??? - she got in the car, went to their house, went to the bedroom with the other guy, got nekkid and had sex with him. 

That’s my evidence.
[/QUOTE]
It is compelling evidence. We would have to ask her. Was the lets start comment enthusiastic and a result of her being excited about it? Or was it let's get this over with.


----------



## plastow

ConanHub said:


> It's really cool that you two are talking more! Glad to hear it!


thank you this site has helped us both and were very grateful for all the good advice,some of the nasty ones too i deserved them


----------



## oldshirt

happyhusband0005 said:


> I get where you're coming from with this and can't say this isn't a possibility, but I think the way he described the whole situation was more the wife being Down to shut her husband up than being enthusiastic and DTF. We've both run into these husbands who are totally over eager and clueless.



I agree with the clueless part and agree that the wives probably rolled their eyes, knew the guys wouldn’t really go through with and basically let the men would make fools of themselves to teach them a lesson.

But I stand by the fact that when H-hour came, she was DTF and walking the walk.

What is my evidence??? - she got in the car, went to their house, went to the bedroom with the other guy, got nekkid and had sex with him. 

That’s my evidence.
[/QUOTE]
It is compelling evidence. We would have to ask her. Was the lets start comment enthusiastic and a result of her being excited about it? Or was it let's get this over with.
[/QUOTE]

Women have “let’s get this over with” sex with their long term partners and spouses. 

Very rarely with other men however.


----------



## plastow

maquiscat said:


> I went and looked at your other thread. You both bear responsibility and both had the power.
> 
> First off this is not an issue of the woman vs the man. At best it would be an issue of who asked first, by the logic you are presenting. If she had been the one to initially ask then, as you present things, you had the power. But in reality, it takes both your permissions to make such an event happen. You both had the power. You had the power to stop it at any time, and in fact you did. The very fact that she agreed puts as much blame on her as you for the overall situation.
> 
> In the end, I think that you are the one who messed up the most. It was your idea, and you dropped the ball on the communications aspect. You failed to ensure that all 4 of you were on the same page before anything started. You didn't account for variations, and I am willing to bet that you never even asked her what her preference were when it came to the details of the event. From the description, you seem to have thought that it would just all naturally work out and everyone would have a great time.


more or less correct in all of it


----------



## happyhusband0005

oldshirt said:


> I agree with the clueless part and agree that the wives probably rolled their eyes, knew the guys wouldn’t really go through with and basically let the men would make fools of themselves to teach them a lesson.
> 
> But I stand by the fact that when H-hour came, she was DTF and walking the walk.
> 
> What is my evidence??? - she got in the car, went to their house, went to the bedroom with the other guy, got nekkid and had sex with him.
> 
> That’s my evidence.


It is compelling evidence. We would have to ask her. Was the lets start comment enthusiastic and a result of her being excited about it? Or was it let's get this over with.
[/QUOTE]

Women have “let’s get this over with” sex with their long term partners and spouses.

Very rarely with other men however.
[/QUOTE]
That is very true. In many relationships more often than not.


----------



## LisaDiane

plastow said:


> thank you this site has helped us both and were very grateful for all the good advice,some of the nasty ones too i deserved them


Do you think you would be at the place of acceptance and moving forward that you are now if you had received all gentle, happy advice that didn't challenge you and make you think of everything in a different way?


----------



## plastow

LisaDiane said:


> Do you think you would be at the place of acceptance and moving forward that you are now if you had received all gentle, happy advice that didn't challenge you and make you think of everything in a different way?


that i cant answer but possibly yes


----------



## plastow

Dillinger said:


> These two threads have had tons of people pushing their version of morality at you. Every single one of them have asked their partner more than once for something after receiving the initial no.
> 
> I've never played with the fire you played with, and most likely never will.
> 
> Having said that, the issue you came here with was that you and your partner had made a plan. You were going to have sex with these other two people while you were all in the same room. You were going to do a thing together. All the zealots on here think you deserved what you got because they believe in monogamy. But they're ignoring the idea that the two of you went in with a plan, and when your back was turned, she changed the plan.
> 
> Running off to the other room for couples play is a different thing than the two of you had agreed to. There's no getting around that, and unless I'm reading you wrong, that's where the issue really came up for you.
> 
> Leave all that stuff in the past where it belongs. You've got a partner that you love, and that loves you back. That's what life's about. Find a way to let it go or you'll end up miserable.


you have it right


----------



## plastow

manfromlamancha said:


> OP you said your wife enjoyed it - how could she if the other guy couldn't get it up? In fact this cannot have been much fun for either of the women because neither of the men could "rise to the occasion" from what you have said. What did the other guy's wife have to say about all of this? Had they done this before?


theres much more to sex than just intercourse or haven't you tried yet


----------



## plastow

Wolfman1968 said:


> Is it my imagination, or does it seem that there are a lot of swinger/wife swapping/fetish kind of threads on here lately?


i,m sorry what do yoy want me to comment on.


----------



## plastow

manfromlamancha said:


> OP you said your wife enjoyed it - how could she if the other guy couldn't get it up? In fact this cannot have been much fun for either of the women because neither of the men could "rise to the occasion" from what you have said. What did the other guy's wife have to say about all of this? Had they done this before?


yes they hasd done


----------



## plastow

Young at Heart said:


> I can't imagine how humiliated the other woman was mentally prepare herself and then to offer herself to the OP and have him so obsessed/distracted that he leaves her to walk in on her husband and the OP's wife. That poor woman has feelings and I can't imagine it not seeming a little like being sexually rejected. I mean what the OP's wife, the best friend husband, and friend's wife must have all felt like when the OP "changed his mind." What must they have all thought of the OP?


at the time i didnt care less about anyone other than my wife.and of course my own jealousy which is what swamped me


----------



## LisaDiane

plastow said:


> yes they hasd done


Your story has changed significantly then, from what you first posted about.

And THAT is why you aren't getting totally targeted, helpful responses. Half of the posts on here are of people trying to figure out WHAT happened and WHEN, and how it differed from what you wanted and/or expected.

You will get the best advice if you lead with the WHOLE story of your situation, and answer followup questions for clarity.


----------



## LisaDiane

plastow said:


> at the time i didnt care less about anyone other than my wife.and of course my own jealousy which is what swamped me


Do you think you would have felt the same sense of jealousy if they had had sex with you in the room watching?


----------



## plastow

manwithnoname said:


> OP's wife is trying to minimize what happened with her latest account of what happened. The whole time not having any recollection of what happened, now she says he didn't enter. Unless she had a vibrator or was using her hand, how did she have the orgasm she already admitted to?


his fingers


----------



## plastow

LisaDiane said:


> Do you think you would have felt the same sense of jealousy if they had had sex with you in the room watching?


i would possibly have gotten jealous,i can't say one way or another but i had given it much thought and so had my wife and i,m sure i could have handled it much better it was not being a part of it at the time it felt more like an affair doing it without each other.that probably doesn't make any sense but that's how it felt


----------



## plastow

ConanHub said:


> That whole relationship dynamic has my brain scrambled!
> 
> I'm caught wondering if they are still as close?
> 
> Do the wives get along?
> 
> @plastow , how is everyone getting along?
> 
> Also, has your sex life and intimacy been negatively impacted between your wife and you?
> 
> How has she seemed to you?


my wife and i are getting along just fine.ive had treatment for prostate cancer and am on hormone injections now so my libido has nose dived but i still have sex with my wife as it affects my ability to have an erection but there are plenty of other ways to pleasure her.we still see the other couple and my wife and the other wife are great pals .ive spoken with my pal and told him we will never go down this road again.


----------



## Diana7

plastow said:


> yes they hasd done


So was/is this a regular thing for the other couple?


----------



## plastow

oldshirt said:


> I'm willing to bet the two women have had a good laugh over what fools the men were over this.
> 
> After all here were a couple 70 year old men acting like a couple 14 year olds watching porn and thinking they were going to play porn star but when H-Hour came they folded like a load of laundry.
> 
> These chicks are not angry or upset with each other. They are laughing at and mocking the ineptitude of the guys.
> 
> The wives were DTF here, it was the guys that couldn't stand up to the pressure and caved....... and I assume that the women kind of knew this all along and so they let them have their little fantasy game to basically show them that they were over their heads.
> 
> The women had a good yuck yuck over this and taught them their lesson.





happyhusband0005 said:


> It is compelling evidence. We would have to ask her. Was the lets start comment enthusiastic and a result of her being excited about it? Or was it let's get this over with.


Women have “let’s get this over with” sex with their long term partners and spouses.

Very rarely with other men however.
[/QUOTE]
That is very true. In many relationships more often than not.
[/QUOTE]
excited


happyhusband0005 said:


> It is compelling evidence. We would have to ask her. Was the lets start comment enthusiastic and a result of her being excited about it? Or was it let's get this over with.


Women have “let’s get this over with” sex with their long term partners and spouses.

Very rarely with other men however.
[/QUOTE]
That is very true. In many relationships more often than not.
[/QUOTE]
it wasnt lets get this over with it was lets get started apparently she was leading what was happening.she told me that


----------



## Evinrude58

So you’re still dwelling on this, still getting triggered when you see the guy, etc?


----------



## Diana7

Evinrude58 said:


> So you’re still dwelling on this, still getting triggered when you see the guy, etc?


I think it would be bizarre to be good friends with a couple for decades, then have a wife swap and then go back to being friends as if nothing had happened. 
Surely seeing them isn't helping the OP?


----------



## thunderchad

I dunno what you'd expect by having another dude f**k your wife.


----------



## PlacerTom

Wait. Let me get this straight. 
You asked your wife to have sex with another man, and for her to consent to you having sex with another woman????


----------



## Evinrude58

PlacerTom said:


> Wait. Let me get this straight.
> You asked your wife to have sex with another man, and for her to consent to you having sex with another woman????


Well, he wanted her to have sex with his close friend IN FRONT OF HIM. She didn’t. She did him in the back room with the door closed and he’s disappointed.


----------



## thunderchad

I just don't know what to say anymore. You begged your wife to **** some other dude. She did. Now you are butthurt. What did you expect would happen? Maybe get your kinks met on reddit or pornhub instead of whoring out your wife and then regretting it.


----------



## plastow

Evinrude58 said:


> So you’re still dwelling on this, still getting triggered when you see the guy, etc?


no i see the guy about once a week and have done since we were boys,i feel ok with hime and in fact have come to terms with this stupid mistake.my only beef is i seem to be gettinr all the blame not just in here but from my wife too.she seems to think because she said it was for me it is ok to blame me for it.she doesnt have to please me all the time nor did i nag her for the swap,i asked her and once she had made up her miond she took a leading role.and admits she never gave me a second thought on the night.she grabbed his hand and said come on lets start.he then said i need the toilet first and so did i.i took longer than him being very nervous.but when i came back into the room all was in darkness my wife and him had already started his wife was in her bedroom waiting.i called out to them then you could have waited till i got back at least but was ignored.and so it went ahead but i froze.


----------



## plastow

plastow said:


> no i see the guy about once a week and have done since we were boys,i feel ok with hime and in fact have come to terms with this stupid mistake.my only beef is i seem to be gettinr all the blame not just in here but from my wife too.she seems to think because she said it was for me it is ok to blame me for it.she doesnt have to please me all the time nor did i nag her for the swap,i asked her and once she had made up her miond she took a leading role.and admits she never gave me a second thought on the night.she grabbed his hand and said come on lets start.he then said i need the toilet first and so did i.i took longer than him being very nervous.but when i came back into the room all was in darkness my wife and him had already started his wife was in her bedroom waiting.i called out to them then you could have waited till i got back at least but was ignored.and so it went ahead but i froze.


so i dont think i,m the one who should shoulder all the blame if she had been against it she would have continued to say no but i,m sure she wanted it too in fact more than me as she went full steam ahead.she told me herself she didnt give me a thought while having the sex.she also went ahead in another room knowing full well i woulds be unhappy.so she has a big portion of the blame to accept but she wont all she keeps saying it was what you wanyed.but thinking long and hard about it she wanted it more than me in the end.and if she were inhappy ,like me she could have called a halt to it at anytime even before she agreed


----------



## plastow

Diana7 said:


> I think it would be bizarre to be good friends with a couple for decades, then have a wife swap and then go back to being friends as if nothing had happened.
> Surely seeing them isn't helping the OP?


we agreed on the weekend it happened to not let it affect our relationship. that has worked i,m not upset with either of them nor my wife for doing the swap it was how she instigated it on the night which completely left me out of her life which was not the idea at all and she knew that.she keeps telling me she has told me everything that happened,but my pal said he had intercourse with her and she told me at first they didn't then later to i can't remember as she said he couldn't get hard but he may have done i cant remember.i just can't get past that if they did they did.but one of them is not telling the whole truth.my wife would lie to me if she thought it would protect me ive told her all i need is the truth.but i get i can,t remember.so now whatever she can't change that can she or else it exposes the lie.and he also cant change it for the same reason.so i,m left in the position of just trying to get it out of my system.we still see them as he and i have been there for one another all our lives.my wife and i will never split up but i,m finding it hard to be happy at the moment.


----------



## plastow

PlacerTom said:


> Wait. Let me get this straight.
> You asked your wife to have sex with another man, and for her to consent to you having sex with another woman????


yes its called swapping wives .new to you is it.


----------



## plastow

plastow said:


> yes its called swapping wives .new to you is it.


or husbands depends on what way you look at it really


----------



## plastow

thunderchad said:


> I dunno what you'd expect by having another dude f**k your wife.


what did you expect i would get.it was a sexual buzz and indeed up to the night it was fantastic ive never known my wife so excited.and indeed she would come home from work saying its all she could think of and we then had sex which was great.it was something naughty but we were supposed to enjoy seeing each other during it which would in our minds have been great too.do you never ever think of sex with anyone other than your partner,we took it a step further than was safe.and it blew up.and now the excitement is gone long ago but the pain remains.


----------



## plastow

thunderchad said:


> I just don't know what to say anymore. You begged your wife to **** some other dude. She did. Now you are butthurt. What did you expect would happen? Maybe get your kinks met on reddit or pornhub instead of whoring out your wife and then regretting it.


i asked not begged,read all my posts and you may well get why i,m as i am now.she could have stopped it at anytime she wanted to,but after much thought i realise she wanted it as much if not more than me.


----------



## plastow

plastow said:


> i asked not begged,read all my posts and you may well get why i,m as i am now.she could have stopped it at anytime she wanted to,but after much thought i realise she wanted it as much if not more than me.


she is not a victim no matter what you all think she had the power to stop it at any time as i did.but i let it stupidly go ahead its wonderful having hindsight.i,m not asking any of you to judge me i was hoping for some advice on how to get this **** out of my mind.but as in all walks of life there are no shortage of judges.until maybe the day they stray.you never know.


----------



## Rus47

plastow said:


> she is not a victim no matter what you all think she had the power to stop it at any time as i did.but i let it stupidly go ahead its wonderful having hindsight.i,m not asking any of you to judge me i was hoping for some advice on how to get this **** out of my mind.but as in all walks of life there are no shortage of judges.until maybe the day they stray.you never know.


As I wrote before, until you can leave the past in the past you are stuck in this constant reliving what happened. As long as your "pal" is around he will constantly remind your brain of what he said happened and what your wife claims she can't remember. She says she loved it. Maybe she is remembering it fondly, who knows? The more you pick at this scab the more the wound will continue to bleed. 

My only advice is to lose this "lifelong friend". if you continue to hang with that couple, the mind movies with continue in technicolor.


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## LisaDiane

plastow said:


> she is not a victim no matter what you all think she had the power to stop it at any time as i did.but i let it stupidly go ahead its wonderful having hindsight.i,m not asking any of you to judge me i was hoping for some advice on how to get this **** out of my mind.but as in all walks of life there are no shortage of judges.until maybe the day they stray.you never know.


She's not a victim...but neither are YOU.

You are being judged for whining about something YOU arranged. It's interesting to me that you are complaining the everyone is judging you, but you sound like you want us all to judge your wife...you don't think it's unfair for HER to be judged, just you.

There is NO way to get that crap out of your head. You can only ignore it and move on. I thought you said you were, but your posts this morning sound like you are right back to where you were when you first posted.

YOU are hanging on to this, that's why it's still bothering you.


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## plastow

LisaDiane said:


> She's not a victim...but neither are YOU.
> 
> You are being judged for whining about something YOU arranged. It's interesting to me that you are complaining the everyone is judging you, but you sound like you want us all to judge your wife...you don't think it's unfair for HER to be judged, just you.
> 
> There is NO way to get that crap out of your head. You can only ignore it and move on. I thought you said you were, but your posts this morning sound like you are right back to where you were when you first posted.
> 
> YOU are hanging on to this, that's why it's still bothering you.


your probably right about all of that.


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## SunCMars

The only_ 'good'_ that I can see, is that this exposee' thread has given others _'here'_ on TAM, a window into a lifestyle they would never venture into.

Via our imaginations, we can visualize what went on, maybe, insert ourselves into the swap itself.

No, no one here will admit of this voyeristic fantasizing.

I know different,_ most_ anyone taking the time to read this thread has those warm and naughty thoughts.

Um.



_Lilith-_


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## Rus47

plastow said:


> yes they hasd done


So the other couple were/are swingers?


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## plastow

Rus47 said:


> So the other couple were/are swingers?


no not really they did some stuff years ago when they were young but nothing till this


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## Rus47

plastow said:


> no not really they did some stuff years ago when they were young but nothing till this


Imagine it is like riding a bicycle, once learned it is easy to take up the hobby even years later. 

An off-the-wall thought experiment, since you seem unable to put what happened seven years ago fully behind you, since you continue to raise the subject with your wife, talking about it with her, and since you are still pals with the guy who did your wife back then, since she is pals with his wife, maybe you and wife just didn't give the swinging lifestyle enough of a chance to catch on for you. Maybe your friend and your wife's friend could tutor both of you on how to be successful with some live two-on-two practice?


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## maquiscat

plastow said:


> we agreed on the weekend it happened to not let it affect our relationship. that has worked i,m not upset with either of them nor my wife for doing the swap it was how she instigated it on the night which completely left me out of her life which was not the idea at all and she knew that.she keeps telling me she has told me everything that happened,but my pal said he had intercourse with her and she told me at first they didn't then later to i can't remember as she said he couldn't get hard but he may have done i cant remember.i just can't get past that if they did they did.but one of them is not telling the whole truth.my wife would lie to me if she thought it would protect me ive told her all i need is the truth.but i get i can,t remember.so now whatever she can't change that can she or else it exposes the lie.and he also cant change it for the same reason.so i,m left in the position of just trying to get it out of my system.we still see them as he and i have been there for one another all our lives.my wife and i will never split up but i,m finding it hard to be happy at the moment.


First off you need to get your space bar and shift key working again. It will make reading your posts so much easier and comprehensible.

Secondly, and this is as a swinger myself, you are holding onto something, I don't know what. You are rehashing this and for some reason want to have someone else agree with you that your wife is to blame. While I am willing to put some of this on both of you for not communicating your wants and needs clearly to each others, everything you put out here reads as if you did something wrong, know it at least subconsciously, and want to shift the blame. This isn't about the swap itself, but the way it went down. Everything you have said points to something other than your topic question. I think that you need to start digging deeper and figure out what it actually is that is bothering you.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

plastow said:


> so i dont think i,m the one who should shoulder all the blame if she had been against it she would have continued to say no but i,m sure she wanted it too in fact more than me as she went full steam ahead.she told me herself she didnt give me a thought while having the sex.she also went ahead in another room knowing full well i woulds be unhappy.so she has a big portion of the blame to accept but she wont all she keeps saying it was what you wanyed.but thinking long and hard about it she wanted it more than me in the end.and if she were inhappy ,like me she could have called a halt to it at anytime even before she agreed


You're projecting now. Very unattractive.


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## Evinrude58

So Plastow,
Let’s pretend your wife waited for you to return from the bathroom, then allowed old buddy to rail her in front of you like you wanted, and your wife clearly loved it and told you later she really enjoyed the swinging and couldn’t wait for more……….would you feel better then?


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## LisaDiane

Evinrude58 said:


> So Plastow,
> Let’s pretend your wife waited for you to return from the bathroom, then allowed old buddy to rail her in front of you like you wanted, and your wife clearly loved it and told you later she really enjoyed the swinging and couldn’t wait for more……….would you feel better then?


This is a great question for the OP to consider!


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## BigDaddyNY

Evinrude58 said:


> So Plastow,
> Let’s pretend your wife waited for you to return from the bathroom, then allowed old buddy to rail her in front of you like you wanted, and your wife clearly loved it and told you later she really enjoyed the swinging and couldn’t wait for more……….would you feel better then?


Great questions. He keeps using them going to the other room as the method for blaming his wife for all of his regret. I can't imagine how seeing the act would have made him feel better.


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## plastow

Rus47 said:


> Imagine it is like riding a bicycle, once learned it is easy to take up the hobby even years later.
> 
> An off-the-wall thought experiment, since you seem unable to put what happened seven years ago fully behind you, since you continue to raise the subject with your wife, talking about it with her, and since you are still pals with the guy who did your wife back then, since she is pals with his wife, maybe you and wife just didn't give the swinging lifestyle enough of a chance to catch on for you. Maybe your friend and your wife's friend could tutor both of you on how to be successful with some live two-on-two practice?


like hair of the dog eh.maybe you have something but i,m not sure my sanity could take it again.


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## plastow

LisaDiane said:


> This is a great question for the OP to consider!


thats an answer i cant give i thought it would be fun but who knows.at least we would have been together having the fun and not separated.which is doing it in an affair like scenario.its my imagination which has got the better of me and my wifes abulity to forget what happened,she has an incredible memory,so when i asked if he entered her she told me she does not remember which i have found very hard to swallow.its the first sex she has had with another guy in over 60 years a bit of an event i would think.if she did ok but i think she is lying either to protect me or herself.my imagination has taken over from there


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## plastow

BigDaddyNY said:


> Great questions. He keeps using them going to the other room as the method for blaming his wife for all of his regret. I can't imagine how seeing the act would have made him feel better.


it was the surprise and also we had agreed my wife and i same room what i would get out of itwould have been the pleasure of seeing her have a great time but at least we would have been in contact with one another so if anything did change we could signal it to the other .i felt as if i was no longer in her life at that moment and she has indeed told me i wasn't she never gave me a thought.my wife is not a very sexual person and to find her carried away enough to forget our agreement and indeed me was what threw me


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## Rus47

plastow said:


> i asked if he entered her she told me she does not remember which i* have found very hard to swallow*.its the first sex she has had with another guy in over 60 years a bit of an event i would think.if she did ok but i think *she is lying either to protect me *or herself.my imagination has taken over from there


I think this is spot on. Most people of either gender can easily remember every single sexual encounter in their lives, especially if there is anything unique about it. Sex is one of the most pleasant things that we engage in during out otherwise mundane lives. Wife and I still reminisce about the back seat of my car when we were teenagers, and that was six decades ago. 

I suspect your wife doesn't want to hurt your feelings, so minimizes what happened 7 years ago. Be grateful for that, it shows she very much loves you, a lot of wives would use the incident as a cudgel to beat their husbands at every opportunity. It doesn't seem she transferred emotionally to your pal. I suspect your pal would very much like to repeat the experience, your wife seems ambivalent as in the experience was ok, but not something she is hot to repeat.

I am a little surprised that facing prostate cancer you have the emotional energy to contemplate swinging. I have walked that path and my mind was occupied with how the treatment was ravaging my body. Wishing you best on the journey, success with the suppression treatment.


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## BigDaddyNY

plastow said:


> it was the surprise and also we had agreed my wife and i same room what i would get out of itwould have been the pleasure of seeing her have a great time but at least we would have been in contact with one another so if anything did change we could signal it to the other .i felt as if i was no longer in her life at that moment and she has indeed told me i wasn't she never gave me a thought.my wife is not a very sexual person and to find her carried away enough to forget our agreement and indeed me was what threw me


Even if she remained in the room, you gave your wife away, period. She wasn't yours anymore in that moment. That was YOUR choice, YOUR desire. Why would you expect her to be thinking of you while another man was screwing her? You were in fantasy land. You would not feel any better if you saw the ecstasy on her face while she stared into the eyes of the other man on top of her. Snap back to reality. 

Be thankful your wife is still with you and never, ever mention this to her again. She is "forgetting" to protect your idiot ass. You have a wife that loves you, that is all you should be thinking about at this point.


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## Diana7

If you open a door you can't blame someone for walking through it.


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## plastow

Rus47 said:


> I think this is spot on. Most people of either gender can easily remember every single sexual encounter in their lives, especially if there is anything unique about it. Sex is one of the most pleasant things that we engage in during out otherwise mundane lives. Wife and I still reminisce about the back seat of my car when we were teenagers, and that was six decades ago.
> 
> I suspect your wife doesn't want to hurt your feelings, so minimizes what happened 7 years ago. Be grateful for that, it shows she very much loves you, a lot of wives would use the incident as a cudgel to beat their husbands at every opportunity. It doesn't seem she transferred emotionally to your pal. I suspect your pal would very much like to repeat the experience, your wife seems ambivalent as in the experience was ok, but not something she is hot to repeat.
> 
> I am a little surprised that facing prostate cancer you have the emotional energy to contemplate swinging. I have walked that path and my mind was occupied with how the treatment was ravaging my body. Wishing you best on the journey, success with the suppression treatment.


the cancer was since then


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## Rus47

plastow said:


> the cancer was since then


But you are thinking and ruminating about failed swinging years ago, while dealing with cancer now. Badgering your wife to remember how much she did with your pal. 

I am very thankful never had testosterone suppression therapy, nerve damage from surgery was bad enough. Badgering my wife about anything was furthest from my mind. I was just thankful she hung through it with me. A lot of marriages dont survive cancer treatment, especially if treatment affects sexual performance.


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## Evinrude58

Plastow your wife loves you. What more do you want? Wake up and kick yourself in the butt every morning for the brain fart and love your life. You have what most men only dream of……. It irks me you let your “friend” have some of your treasure, but it happened. You’re giving away more of it every day you dwell on this. Stop blaming your wife for your mistake and enjoy the love she has for you.


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## plastow

Rus47 said:


> But you are thinking and ruminating about failed swinging years ago, while dealing with cancer now. Badgering your wife to remember how much she did with your pal.
> 
> I am very thankful never had testosterone suppression therapy, nerve damage from surgery was bad enough. Badgering my wife about anything was furthest from my mind. I was just thankful she hung through it with me. A lot of marriages dont survive cancer treatment, especially if treatment affects sexual performance.


thank you for your input i appreciate that and hope your well and over the cancer.


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## plastow

Evinrude58 said:


> Plastow your wife loves you. What more do you want? Wake up and kick yourself in the butt every morning for the brain fart and love your life. You have what most men only dream of……. It irks me you let your “friend” have some of your treasure, but it happened. You’re giving away more of it every day you dwell on this. Stop blaming your wife for your mistake and enjoy the love she has for you.


sound advice and which i am going to try to follow.ive come to think i,m angry at myself for all this and yes i,m taking it out on her stupid i know.but i will try harder as they say in school i got a few of those reports too


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## Lostinthought61

Sorry i can't recall if your friend asked your wife to go to another room or your wife suggested it...if it was the former, did you tell your friend that the conditions were that both couples stay in the same room?


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## plastow

Lostinthought61 said:


> Sorry i can't recall if your friend asked your wife to go to another room or your wife suggested it...if it was the former, did you tell your friend that the conditions were that both couples stay in the same room?


my wife was the leading party on the night.she was already in the bedroom when he came out of the bathroom while i was still in the other one.so obviously something she didnt want to do


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## plastow

Lostinthought61 said:


> Sorry i can't recall if your friend asked your wife to go to another room or your wife suggested it...if it was the former, did you tell your friend that the conditions were that both couples stay in the same room?


and no i didnt tell him but he didnt make the decision anyway .but i already knew he wanted it in the same room as he gets off watching his wife too.they have done things in the past it was our first time.and last


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## plastow

over the last week i think my mind set has changed i,m a lot more stable in my thoughts nagging doubts still enter now and then but by and large i just think of something else.i love my wife very much and we both know it was a bad mistake.ive learned a lot about myself and my love for my wife.all those who said i have no respect for her and dont love her are very wide of the mark,thats how they see the world but we are all different as coming in here has taught me.but ive respected all your opinions whether against me and most have been and a few who have seen it from my angle.but overall i think this siute has helped enormously.and i wish to thank all who posted .my marriage is intact and we are still in love in fact we are closer after all this than ever.i will keep working on it though.now for a cup of coffee.she has been away for a week with her family and coming home tomorrow and i cant wait to see her.thank you


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## plastow

Lostinthought61 said:


> Sorry i can't recall if your friend asked your wife to go to another room or your wife suggested it...if it was the former, did you tell your friend that the conditions were that both couples stay in the same room?


my wife asked him


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## gameopoly5

True story.
25 years ago a friend decided to invite a male coworker to have a threesome with him and his wife, both in their late 30s at the time. His wife was also keen on the idea and at first believed it would bring in some excitement and enhance their marriage. So on one evening the male coworker is invited and turns up at their home. After some chat and getting his wife to know his coworker better, they went to their bedroom for what they considered was going to be an amazing sex session. When they were really into it my friend noticed that his wife was lapping it up with his coworker, in-fact my friend simply became an observer his wife treating him as if he wasn`t there. He also noticed that his wife was much more uninhibited with his coworker more than she had ever been with him. Once they were done, they sat and had a coffee then the coworker went home. After he left the atmosphere between them could have been cut with a knife, my friend suddenly realising it was a bad idea. He could not erase the image of his wife going at it hammer and tongs with his coworker, and guess what? Four months later the couple divorced. So although this may appear a fantasy and thrilling in porn movies, it doesn`t work in real life and if in a relationship don`t bring any third parties into it because usually they don`t end well.


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## Evinrude58

plastow said:


> why especially after 50 years.i guess your a younger person who thinks older people should not try anything different in sex.because we had been married and very happy until this ill judged episode,we felt we were strong enough to be able to try it.it was wrong and we know that but the thrill before was incredible and yes us oldies still want and have sex its not just for you young uns


Because 50 years of a woman being loyal to only you is a treasure that few men would even consider giving up. Only the fatuity of an extraordinary person would result in such a thing.
It’s hard to even sympathize with you since you asked TWICE for your wife to do it.

Edited to add:
Something is wrong in your seemingly perfect marriage and with your “friend”because your wife should have slapped you abd your friend should have given you a brotherly right cross for even suggesting such a thing. My best friend is like a brother to me, I love him dearly. If he asked me this I would be deeply disturbed and upset with him, and wonder if I ever really knew him. Of course, he wouldn’t ask…… but still.


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## frenchpaddy

plastow said:


> i posted my problems earlier this month about my personal problem with our swap which went badly wqrong for me.this is an observation about the answers i got and most said my wife had no blame in it.i as the husband asked her if she would consider a swap ,she said no. but when i aksed her again a few days later she said i,m upset you would ask me but i will think about it.i left it for a dau then asked her again and she said i,m still thinking about it.then one morning in bed she just said yes ok i asked what she meant as we not talking about that at the time and she said the swap yes.but what i,m getting at is i aksed on several occasions,and she said she would think about it,ok my part is over then but she had the power to say yes or no i didnt so when she said yes she knew for sure it would happen but until then i had no power to put it into action until she said ok.so who is really to blame me for asking or her for instigating what she then knew would happen.seems the guy always gets the blame.but he has no power its the woman who decides to do it.just a thought .i,m not blaming anyone but i think its time this was said.women have the veto on it all the way


I am responding to your post not to any other information you have posted before or after 
you question is like which came first the chicken or the egg ,

YOU planted the seed , there are many couples that try this , up to 20% of all couples , and I will not get into the numbers as the numbers don't matter , all that matters is what is ok with you and your wife,
It is common in the couples that do this or try this that it is the men that bring up the idea first , 
most often it is said to be from the idea that they are so proud of their wife they want to show off to other men "Look at what I have 365 days of the year and they are showing off " or another point often made is that it has something to do with a battle of sperm/ *Sperm competition* BUT most couples that swing use protection 
you asked the question so it was you that planted the idea she thought about it for many days and your ides tripped something in her that she said she was up for it , 
you still had the right to change your mind and pull back at this stage 
in the same way if a woman is out for a night has drinks enjoys been seduced by a man they are kissing and undressed he calls her my little **** or ***** and she becomes turned off which comes from one of the topics we have here , she has the right to still say no and stop all , 

same as if you ask your wife to marry you but she said yes and some time later you see a different side in her you have the right to brake off the engagement 

open marriage is open as long as to people in it are willing if you had changed you mind it should stop there


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## Jimi007

gameopoly5 said:


> True story.
> 25 years ago a friend decided to invite a male coworker to have a threesome with him and his wife, both in their late 30s at the time. His wife was also keen on the idea and at first believed it would bring in some excitement and enhance their marriage. So on one evening the male coworker is invited and turns up at their home. After some chat and getting his wife to know his coworker better, they went to their bedroom for what they considered was going to be an amazing sex session. When they were really into it my friend noticed that his wife was lapping it up with his coworker, in-fact my friend simply became an observer his wife treating him as if he wasn`t there. He also noticed that his wife was much more uninhibited with his coworker more than she had ever been with him. Once they were done, they sat and had a coffee then the coworker went home. After he left the atmosphere between them could have been cut with a knife, my friend suddenly realising it was a bad idea. He could not erase the image of his wife going at it hammer and tongs with his coworker, and guess what? Four months later the couple divorced. So although this may appear a fantasy and thrilling in porn movies, it doesn`t work in real life and if in a relationship don`t bring any third parties into it because usually they don`t end well.





gameopoly5 said:


> True story.
> 25 years ago a friend decided to invite a male coworker to have a threesome with him and his wife, both in their late 30s at the time. His wife was also keen on the idea and at first believed it would bring in some excitement and enhance their marriage. So on one evening the male coworker is invited and turns up at their home. After some chat and getting his wife to know his coworker better, they went to their bedroom for what they considered was going to be an amazing sex session. When they were really into it my friend noticed that his wife was lapping it up with his coworker, in-fact my friend simply became an observer his wife treating him as if he wasn`t there. He also noticed that his wife was much more uninhibited with his coworker more than she had ever been with him. Once they were done, they sat and had a coffee then the coworker went home. After he left the atmosphere between them could have been cut with a knife, my friend suddenly realising it was a bad idea. He could not erase the image of his wife going at it hammer and tongs with his coworker, and guess what? Four months later the couple divorced. So although this may appear a fantasy and thrilling in porn movies, it doesn`t work in real life and if in a relationship don`t bring any third parties into it because usually they don`t end well.


Just curious , did the wife get with the co worker after the divorce ?


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## gameopoly5

Jimi007 said:


> Just curious , did the wife get with the co worker after the divorce ?


A far as I can remember from that time, no the wife did not see that coworker again.
They were only married for about 3 years, did not have children and rented the home where they lived.
It was my friend who wanted a divorce not his wife.
After the divorce they both went their separate ways and not long after that I moved away from the area and never heard from him or his wife again.
I`ve tried searching for my past friend online and facebook, but without success.


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## Jimi007

I've personally never understood the wife sharing dynamic. And I don't think I ever will...


----------



## Longtime Hubby

We talk about it in foreplay. After 28 years married, we sometimes need some “inspiration” to enhance the experience. Sometimes discuss people we know in RL, but it’s just talk. Nothing more. Will we ever? Who knows? I suppose in the perfect storm, anything is possible. If not, the hot pillow talk works wonders now and then. And to those who will blast me, I say ”to each their own.” You and your spouse may fuel the fantasies of another couple you know through mutual friends, next door, down the block, through work or even at your church.


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## plastow

Evinrude58 said:


> So Plastow,
> Let’s pretend your wife waited for you to return from the bathroom, then allowed old buddy to rail her in front of you like you wanted, and your wife clearly loved it and told you later she really enjoyed the swinging and couldn’t wait for more……….would you feel better then?


it didnt happen that way so i will never know.i felt at the moment of coming back into a room without lights i had been deserted by my wife,they had gone in before she gave me the chance to say no.they had already started .and as you have all said it was my idea so how could i stop it.in retrospect i would not have asked in the first place but i didyes i should have stopped it then but i didnt .i did try to have sex with his wife but could not stop thinking what they were doing in the other room.it felt like an affair rather than just sex.my wife enjoyed it at the time but as i,m still upset now wishes she had never said yes.she was in such a hurry to get him into the bedroom alone i cant get that out of my head.it felt like i ceased to exist at that moment.yes stupid it all was but its done and now i have to live with the mind movies all the time,as my wife has told me many times she cant remember what they did except the kissing and him giving her oral.so the rest is in my head and will stay there till i die.i dont want sympathy i just wanted others opinions and ive had plenty of those.if i had anything to say to others thinking of the same thing be very very sure its what you want.because what you dont want will come for you.


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## Jimi007

@plastow ...It's OK to look back , just don't look too long , You might not like what you see...

I'm sorry that you now have this remorse. And guilt. As humans we live and learn. 

Hopefully you can move on from this bad decision. 

And repair yourself and your marriage. 

Best wishes , Jimi


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## ABHale

Your wife is to blame for breaking the rules the two of you set forth. She decided on her own that she was going to **** the friend alone, went into the other room and shut the door while you were out of the room. Stop taking the blame all on you,


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## BigDaddyNY

ABHale said:


> Your wife is to blame for breaking the rules the two of you set forth. She decided on her own that she was going to **** the friend alone, went into the other room and shut the door while you were out of the room. Stop taking the blame all on you,


I would agree if it weren't for the haphazard "planning" by the OP. It leads me to believe no one was crystal clear on what the rules were. The other couple had no idea about these rules, so I'm sure OPs wife was used to her husband taking the lead in the bedroom and she just followed when the other guy took the lead.


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## BeyondRepair007

plastow said:


> she was in such a hurry to get him into the bedroom alone i cant get that out of my head





BigDaddyNY said:


> OPs wife was used to her husband taking the lead in the bedroom and she just followed when the other guy took the lead.


@BigDaddyNY maybe. But plastow‘s comment seems to contradict the idea of OM taking the lead. And it speaks to the wife’s intentional violation of the rules.

It doesn’t really matter now, this is settled and OP is living the rest of his life with this horrible memory. But I call BS on the innocent wife. She doesn’t remember? Yea right.


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## SunCMars

In chemistry, there are reactions that simply will not happen if you merely place two elements in close proximity to each other.

You need a catalyst; something to start and sustain the reaction.
The reaction, and in this case, the electing to proceed, and the sustaining erection.

The catalyst here was your prodding, that rubbing her mind and yours, together.
Yes, the power of penile suggestion.

A second catalyst was the swizzle stick that you brought to your bed, for your wife. His penis stirred the mixture, and poked her into action.


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## ABHale

BigDaddyNY said:


> I would agree if it weren't for the haphazard "planning" by the OP. It leads me to believe no one was crystal clear on what the rules were. The other couple had no idea about these rules, so I'm sure OPs wife was used to her husband taking the lead in the bedroom and she just followed when the other guy took the lead.


OP said she is the one that took the other guy into the bedroom. So it wasn’t the other husband leading his wife to break the rule.


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## BigDaddyNY

ABHale said:


> OP said she is the one that took the other guy into the bedroom. So it wasn’t the other husband leading his wife to break the rule.


I'm not going to go back and reread, since this is over an done with, but OP said he went to the bathroom and when he came out they had gone to another room. So maybe it isn't clear who lead who, but it doesn't matter. I see him as owning it all. He had to ask her multiple times before she was convinced and he didn't clarify the rules with everyone involved. He wanted to swap wives and that was what he got.


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## Longtime Hubby

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm not going to go back and reread, since this is over an done with, but OP said he went to the bathroom and when he came out they had gone to another room. So maybe it isn't clear who lead who, but it doesn't matter. I see him as owning it all. He had to ask her multiple times before she was convinced and he didn't clarify the rules with everyone involved. He wanted to swap wives and that was what he got.


be careful what you wish for - an old saying that seems to fit here.


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## ABHale

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm not going to go back and reread, since this is over an done with, but OP said he went to the bathroom and when he came out they had gone to another room. So maybe it isn't clear who lead who, but it doesn't matter. I see him as owning it all. He had to ask her multiple times before she was convinced and he didn't clarify the rules with everyone involved. He wanted to swap wives and that was what he got.


You honestly don’t know anything about what rules were or were not talked about.

OP also mentioned that he talked with his wife twice about it. That one morning she said yes and he didn’t know what she was saying yes about. Then she told him it was about the swap.

He said several times here that he wanted it to be in the same room so he could see his wife.

So why are you automatically assuming he didn’t talk about rules like staying in the same room?


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## ConanHub

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm not going to go back and reread, since this is over an done with, but OP said he went to the bathroom and when he came out they had gone to another room. So maybe it isn't clear who lead who, but it doesn't matter. I see him as owning it all. He had to ask her multiple times before she was convinced and he didn't clarify the rules with everyone involved. He wanted to swap wives and that was what he got.


I remember it pretty good and she did break the rules she agreed to.

I'm convinced he is responsible for getting it set up, the friends are somewhat responsible for going for it as is the wife.

The wife and friend were both shytheads for breaking the rules and they were all numbskulls for agreeing to it to begin with.

Not that I'm in the same universe as the OP but if I was in his shoes and came back from a bathroom break to catch my "friend" breaking the boundaries with my wife, he would have gotten the beat down of his life.


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## BigDaddyNY

ABHale said:


> You honestly don’t know anything about what rules were or were not talked about.
> 
> OP also mentioned that he talked with his wife twice about it. That one morning she said yes and he didn’t know what she was saying yes about. Then she told him it was about the swap.
> 
> He said several times here that he wanted it to be in the same room so he could see his wife.
> 
> So why are you automatically assuming he didn’t talk about rules like staying in the same room?


OP did say, as I recall, that he never discussed the rules with the friends, but you are right that the wife knew the rules. 



ConanHub said:


> I remember it pretty good and she did break the rules she agreed to.
> 
> I'm convinced he is responsible for getting it set up, the friends are somewhat responsible for going for it as is the wife.
> 
> The wife and friend were both shytheads for breaking the rules and they were all numbskulls for agreeing to it to begin with.
> 
> Not that I'm in the same universe as the OP but if I was in his shoes and came back from a bathroom break to catch my "friend" breaking the boundaries with my wife, he would have gotten the beat down of his life.


That sounds about right. IMO they were all shytheads, lol.


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## DudeInProgress

BigDaddyNY said:


> OP did say, as I recall, that he never discussed the rules with the friends, but you are right that the wife knew the rules.
> 
> 
> That sounds about right. IMO they were all shytheads, lol.


Who gives a **** at this point? Doesn’t matter.
0P made a spectacularly stupid decision to go down a incredibly stupid path, pulling his wife along with him, and the situation unsurprisingly went completely sideways. Sad but unsurprising.

It’s like pressuring and badgering your hothead buddy into robbing a bank. 
And when he finally agrees, he ends up shooting the security guard instead of just flex cuffing him like he was supposed to in your idiotic plan. 
And then being pissed off at him for screwing up your grand plan and getting you both in a lot more trouble and screwing up both your lives. 
You’re both idiots, you both chose to go down a very stupid path, but you are the biggest idiot because you were the one instigating it.


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## BelsBeast66

plastow said:


> i posted my problems earlier this month about my personal problem with our swap which went badly wqrong for me.this is an observation about the answers i got and most said my wife had no blame in it.i as the husband asked her if she would consider a swap ,she said no. but when i aksed her again a few days later she said i,m upset you would ask me but i will think about it.i left it for a dau then asked her again and she said i,m still thinking about it.then one morning in bed she just said yes ok i asked what she meant as we not talking about that at the time and she said the swap yes.but what i,m getting at is i aksed on several occasions,and she said she would think about it,ok my part is over then but she had the power to say yes or no i didnt so when she said yes she knew for sure it would happen but until then i had no power to put it into action until she said ok.so who is really to blame me for asking or her for instigating what she then knew would happen.seems the guy always gets the blame.but he has no power its the woman who decides to do it.just a thought .i,m not blaming anyone but i think its time this was said.women have the veto on it all the way


Why did you ask her for a swap in the first place?
Why are you NOW upset about her answer?
YOU should be more careful what you’re asking for because you got it this time. You’re to blame if you got a raw deal.. all she did was give the green light, you gave her the opportunity. Men who think with their ****s always screw them selves in the end.


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## Longtime Hubby

BelsBeast66 said:


> Why did you ask her for a swap in the first place?
> Why are you NOW upset about her answer?
> YOU should be more careful what you’re asking for because you got it this time. You’re to blame if you got a raw deal.. all she did was give the green light, you gave her the opportunity. Men who think with their ****s always screw them selves in the end.


Whomever has the ***** calls the shots. Been that way since time began.


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## BigDaddyNY

BelsBeast66 said:


> Why did you ask her for a swap in the first place?
> Why are you NOW upset about her answer?
> YOU should be more careful what you’re asking for because you got it this time. You’re to blame if you got a raw deal.. all she did was give the green light, you gave her the opportunity. Men who think with their ****s always screw them selves in the end.


He's already answered this in the past. Although I would never, ever do or suggest something like this, I can actually see why someone might. I love to see my wife in ecstasy, when she is under me, lol. It would be a big thrill to step away and watch that ecstasy unfold from an outside point of view. However, I don't want to see the source of that ecstasy coming from another man. That I find repulsive. If this outsider's perspective is what thrills you, then I would rather go with doing it in front of a mirror, or what would be really sexy is to sit and watch her masturbate to orgasm. Same thrill, but no other's involved.


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## BelsBeast66

BigDaddyNY said:


> He's already answered this in the past. Although I would never, ever do or suggest something like this, I can actually see why someone might. I love to see my wife in ecstasy, when she is under me, lol. It would be a big thrill to step away and watch that ecstasy unfold from an outside point of view. However, I don't want to see the source of that ecstasy coming from another man. That I find repulsive. If this outsider's perspective is what thrills you, then I would rather go with doing it in front of a mirror, or what would be really sexy is to sit and watch her masturbate to orgasm. Same thrill, but no other's involved.


Yeah I know he already answered.. but he’s still upset and seemingly at his wife.. he pushed and got what he wanted, huge fail..!


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