# Medication - necessary?



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Since I was young I always questioned the use of drugs in mental health. The majority always disagreed with me but I always saw it as a short-term fix with long-term problems seeing many of my peers during teens go through it. I never took any prescription medication for my mental conditions and I reckon I came out mostly normal, stable, functional, and healthy. Mostly.

Curious what you guys make of this:

https://kellybroganmd.com/stop-madness-coming-psych-meds/











Are they really necessary?


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

My son is a doctor. He told me when he was going thru Pharm classes that they really do not have a clue how brain chemistry works. Most psychotropic drugs were stumbled upon in the course of trying to treat something else. So for instance a drug for something else was instead marketed as an anti-depressant because the researchers noticed that people who took it in tests reported being happier.
There was also a recent article in the local newspaper. Originally most anti-depressants were intended for short term use only. Then Big Pharma started pushing for long term "maintenance dosages". Now millions are addicted to them and cannot get off them.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I cant see the video you posted but I know that for those with severe depression for example, medication literally saves lives. Also for those who have had more than one or two periods of severe depression, a daily low maintenance dose of anti depressants is very beneficial.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

This is a very personal decision. No one should ever be ashamed for taking a medicine that a QUALUFIED professional has prescribed that makes their life better. We never question whether a type I diabetic should take insulin.

I've heard all the pseudo-spiritual, granola, and big pharma haters say their piece.

All I know is my oldest is alive, in college, working, and no longer cutting herself thanks to medication.

So when some armchair "expert" tells me how bad these meds are, I tell them with a sweet southern smile to kindly shut up.

P.S. knowing the chemistry of a pill and how to count them is not the same thing as knowing when and how to prescribe them.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Medication is often successful, at least for short-term conditions like situational depression or anxiety. Some, like bipolar, really DO need long-term medication to be functional. There are so many conditions that benefit from medication, but of course there are some that are over-medicated, or medicated long beyond the necessity. On the other hand, some stop taking their medications when they shouldn't!


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

In most cases, i think psychotropic drugs are best used on a temporary basis. The why is pretty simple; most people suffer psychiatric distress as a result of temporary issues. 

For others, its needed long term, even though i DO think behavioral solutions would probably be healthier. For instance, my wifes takes lithium for bipolar disorder. It would probably be much healthier for her to change her behaviors to mitigate the effects of bipolar disorder than use the lithium, but she simply is not able to do so. She can't maintain the healthy habits without the medications to keep her emotions from going crazy out of whack. 

That said, i do think people get diagnosed with mental disorders too much. Especially teenagers...


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

I guess it depends on the medication, since there are all types of ADs and the person. I have had a very successful career and life on AD medication. Been on Wellbutrin which is old school and not as bad as the newer stuff. This is my 30th year on it with an occasional break. I do no take the highest dosage and it has been a godsend to me. I have not even had a cold in the lat 15 years. I know people who stop taking meds for mental illness and it does not go well for them. 

I also learned that if you want good mental health treatment, see a Psychiatrist and not your family doctor who really are not equipped to handle long term treatment. Just because some people have short term problems does not mean that there are lots of people who need long term treatment. Too many people think of depression as just being sad about something. While that is true of some, such as those divorcing or have lost a loved one. However, there are many of us who have a chemical unbalance and just grin and bearing it is not going to provide the chemicals that our brains cannot produce or produce in too small an amount.

The idea of not needing medication for mental illness is what was thought a long time ago. Now more is known about mental illnesses and we no longer ask people to walk it off.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

FYI: The doctor mentioned in above U-Tube videos has made this issue his life's work. His book 'TP' is discussed in advanced psychology/psychiatry courses as being controversial--out-of-date. Meds and electroshock therapy have made significant strides since his early work. As others have said, huge improvements have been made thru psychopharmacological intervention. This must be done on an individual basis with highly trained specialists who monitor and possible suggest other things such as diets and counseling.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

For me it just seems like drugs is just like the go-to solution instead of other forms of help, and it just makes me question psychiatry as a whole.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

As'laDain said:


> In most cases, i think psychotropic drugs are best used on a temporary basis. The why is pretty simple; most people suffer psychiatric distress as a result of temporary issues.
> 
> For others, its needed long term, even though i DO think behavioral solutions would probably be healthier. For instance, my wifes takes lithium for bipolar disorder. It would probably be much healthier for her to change her behaviors to mitigate the effects of bipolar disorder than use the lithium, but she simply is not able to do so. She can't maintain the healthy habits without the medications to keep her emotions from going crazy out of whack.
> 
> That said, i do think people get diagnosed with mental disorders too much. Especially teenagers...


You really have ZERO understanding of Biploar Disorder do you? It has nothing to do with habits and self-control. It is a PHYSIOLOGICAL disorder. Bless your wife's heart.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Medication for for psychological disorders *sometimes* is valuable, but I think that it is often over prescribed as a quick way to keep a patient from causing trouble. (based on personal experience in my family which has a history of psychological disorders). 

Bipolar disorder does seem to be something that can be effectively treated. Other problems can be a lot trickier.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Medication is virtually useless for things like Borderline Personality Disorder, NPD, etc. For illnesses like Bipolar Disorder I, schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia, etc . medication is almost always necessary for functioning. Sometimes a person does not need medication for Bipolar II. For depression, it depends. Situational depression MIGHT need medication for a short time, but often therapy is enough. For chronic or major depression, medication CAN be beneficial.

It really is very much like diabetes. People can often treat type II diabetes with diet, eight loss, exercise, etc. With type I, sorry, your pancreas is kaput. Insulin injections are a must, no exceptions.

As long as people shame the use of medication and stigma remains regarding mental illness, people will shy away from being treated, and that really is unfortunate.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> This is a very personal decision. No one should ever be ashamed for taking a medicine that a QUALUFIED professional has prescribed that makes their life better. We never question whether a type I diabetic should take insulin.
> 
> I've heard all the pseudo-spiritual, granola, and big pharma haters say their piece.
> 
> ...


Ah, I espy a dig, a stab at Pharmacists.

A 'good' Pharmacist is better than a run-of-the-mill, label-reading, copy-cat M.D.


Being a Prescriber is a risky endeavor, they have a dangerous job.
Dangerous for you, lawsuit dangerous for them.

Take this pill, if you have a problem call me.
You call them, no one home.
You get a hold of them, they ask, "And who are you?", 

"Let me get your chart".

"Oh yes, Mrs Smith, the blonde women who visited the other day".
"How can i help you, what are your problems, what are your symptoms?"

I love that this women doctor is sounding the alarm about psychotropic drugs.

Yes, these drugs are misapplied, misused.
Yes, they have helped many people.

Drugs are made-for-profit. The sale of which makes many people and companies rich.
That is my concern, my worry.

My extended family is in medicine. I am informed and I am concerned.

Drug companies are not necessarily evil, but they would be without regulation.
Normally, I dislike regulation. But, not in this case.

Life and death...and all that.



Lilith-


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

For diabetes organ failure is one thing, drugs that mess with your mind, thought patterns, chemistry... even if it helps in the short term, how about long term?

How long are clinical trials? A woman I met in pharmaceuticals surprised me with the length of clinical trials but I forgot the length, what was it?

I dunno, for me medication like this should be after having exhausted all other options.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

My best friend since childhood is a pharmacist. It is a very important and complex job. But even SHE will tell you she is not a doctor. Because she isn't.

She also doesn't make sweeping judgments about the choices people make concerning their own health. Because she's not arrogant.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

SunCMars said:


> Yes, these drugs are misapplied, misused.
> Yes, they have helped many people.
> 
> *Drugs are made-for-profit. The sale of which makes many people and companies rich.
> ...


Damn right.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> For me it just seems like drugs is just like the go-to solution instead of other forms of help, and it just makes me question psychiatry as a whole.


Many mental health disorders are actually physical illness that manifests itself in one's thoughts and behaviors.

For example depression can be caused by the brain not making enough and/or not up taking enough, or too much, of certain brain chemicals like dopamine or serotonin, for example. 

It's easy to see that a broken arm, an infection, pneumonia, and so forth are physical illnesses. It's not easy to see that a lot of mental health problems are actually physical illnesses.

Look at that 3 year old boy who was killed by his father in Northern New Mexico recently. He had a 'mental health' illness caused by oxygen depravation. It probably happen in gestation or at birth. But his ignorant father thought is was fake and made up by the child's mother and doctors. The stupid father tried to remove the devil from his son and the boy died.

I have a nephew who is diagnosed schizophrenic. We think it was caused by the 6 concussions he got in high school playing football. For years everyone thought he was just an out of control misbehaved kid. Nope.. he has brain damage. When he's on his meds he can function. Sadly he has the attitude that you express and refuses to take the meds most of the time. He's about 26 now. Most of the time, when he's not on his meds, he lives on the street; gets more and more disoriented every day, cannot even plan to have food to eat so he steals from grocery stores. And yet some still think he just need to get ahold of himself.

In 1985 I lost twins, still birth. About 2 months later I could not function due to a very sever depression. I got to the point where I refused to leave the house. I was getting suicidal. I was put on an anti-depressant (do not recall which). I took them for a few weeks. Then one day I just could tell that I did not need them anymore and stopped taking them. The meds got me through the worst part of the depression. If those pills were not available, who knows how it would have ended.

There are also people whose brains just are not functioning right chemically (we are after all chemical engines). We have fancy names for how this manifests itself: depression, anxiety disorder, Bi-Polar disorder, schizophrenia, and on and on. These are people whose brains just do not function well long-term, sometimes life long. They are not going to just snap out of it one day on their own.

We recognize that for some people, other organs in their body do not function well can cause illnesses like diabetes, hypo/hyper thyroidism, pancreatitis, and on and on -- the list is very long. So why do we assume that the only organ in the enter human body that never functions badly is the brain???? Of course the brain, like every organ, can function poorly in some people.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I dunno Elegirl, It took me around 12 years before I started become fully functional and law abiding, 20 before I stepped into the shoes of 'normalness'.

Maybe it just depends but I dunno


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

personofinterest said:


> You really have ZERO understanding of Biploar Disorder do you? It has nothing to do with habits and self-control. It is a PHYSIOLOGICAL disorder. Bless your wife's heart.


I have lived with her for over a decade and have loved every second i have had with her. She has often blown tens of thousands of dollars on random crap... but she has never put us in dept. I have always stopped us well before then. 


If her disease is physiological, then so is mine. But I'm sure you would probably hate me if you knew what all i deal with..


You probably wouldn't even care what we have been through. Though, its behavior from which the diagnosis is drawn, in either case.


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## Max.HeadRoom (Jun 28, 2014)

Both the movie “Silver lining playbook” and the Book “Artie's langs: Too fat to fish” both help me better understand my lifelong friend Bob; Bob is bipolar and will not take his medication; in his words “I live for those highs and just try to survive the lows, Meds leaves me in the gray band in the middles. Life has no color”

It is painful to watch him destroy his life over and over and be unable to help but that pain is mine not his. All I can do is be his friend and share his time here. I try just to accept him and help when I can.

It makes me wonder if I live in that gray band or do most.


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## Max.HeadRoom (Jun 28, 2014)

Me; I went on antidepressant in the year after my wife died, I was not moving forward and depressed. It was a low dose of Bupropion 70mg. I was on it for 6 years; since being off of it I’ve go back to a low depression. The only thing that will help me is to exercise, I am not going nut on the exercise just 30 minutes most days and lots of sunshine. This summer the thing I have enjoyed most is sitting in my underwear on my patio in the HOT sun, it makes me feel like superman.


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## Hope Shimmers (Jul 10, 2015)

Depression and schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are physiological disorders. Just like any other disease.

Also, people don't get "addicted" to antidepressants. 

After my daughter died at birth I would not be here right now if I had not taken antidepressants. The difference was staggering.

People don't understand depression. They think it's just being "sad". Just "get over it". That's not how it works. These conditions have to do with chemical imbalances in the brain. Just like other diseases have to do with chemical imbalances in other organs of the body.

Cluster B personality disorders are the exception (NPD, borderline personality disorder, etc). They do not respond well to medications. 

Schizophrenia is not a cluster B personality disorder. It's a physiological disease, and it's often genetic. Any of you ever actually talk to someone with active schizophrenia? It's fascinating, actually. I've done many intake interviews with some of the worst cases (state hospital). Medications are effective and necessary; however, due to the disease itself compliance to medication therapy is difficult. Many schizophrenic patients live on the street because they can't cope, and getting them to be adherent to their medication therapy is almost impossible. That's why some medications to treat schizophrenia come in depot form (long-term injections) because they can't and/or won't take medications daily.

I'm not just talking out of my hat. Physician and pharmacist here. Mental illnesses are one of the most misunderstood diagnoses by the general public.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> I dunno Elegirl, It took me around 12 years before I started become fully functional and law abiding, 20 before I stepped into the shoes of 'normalness'.
> 
> Maybe it just depends but I dunno


Do you assume that all people are just like you? Surely you can understand that your experience is yours alone. And other people experience things that are very different from what you have experienced.

First off you would have to explain what you mean by "it took me around 12 years before I started become fully functional and law abiding". What did you do before the age of 12 that not functional and no law abiding? 

And what did you do from 12 to 20 that was not "normal". 

And what is normal?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Do you assume that all people are just like you? Surely you can understand that your experience is yours alone. And other people experience things that are very different from what you have experienced.
> 
> First off you would have to explain what you mean by "it took me around 12 years before I started become fully functional and law abiding". What did you do before the age of 12 that not functional and no law abiding?
> 
> ...


No, I'm not making the assumption, that's why I mentioned maybe it depends - hence this thread. I do have strong opinions but I do listen to reason. My PD began at the age of 12, was around 24 before I got a handle of things. I caused alot of harm to others in that time as I had no real guidance and I enjoyed it. I developed a moral code to overcome it and I'm still learning. But I still question the use of medication. Perhaps because I'm cluster B, and if what Hope Shimmers says is true, then no medication would have helped me anyway.

But it's not just my experience that I'm coming from, as I mentioned I questioned it since teens, as several of my friends had depression, anxiety, schizophrenia, etc. I've seen those on it and those without it, those who became dependent on it, those who became worse without it and those who became functional without it. I understand the use of medication for other cases such as epilepsy as my psychologist also uses it, she says the benefits and side effects outweigh life without them as without the medication she's prone to seizures. I question medication being used as the first 'go-to' solution however for other mental issues.

What sparked this thread was after reading about an ex-wife on this forum who went like completely bonkers after going off her meds, like she just can't function without them. It just makes me question if other solutions are possible.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I think everyone who is anti medication should spend 6 months inside the mind of someone with major depression or bipolar disorder or schizophrenia. Then maybe they would understand the arrogance of assuming no one needs medication. And as for bipolar disorder being behavior based, anyone who knows how to read knows that is not true. Bipolar disorder is physiological.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

My wife needs medication, but they take their toll on her. It would be lovely if she could learn to cope well with both the highs and lows without medication, but she cannot. Without medications getting in the way, she would have a lot more energy and less side effects, but she would also spiral out of control fairly quickly. 

She does need them, but they are not a perfect solution. Unfortunately, there isn't a perfect solution for her. A combination of medication and behavioral therapies is her best bet for living a mostly normal and happy life. 

Truth be told, she probably doesn't just suffer from bipolar disorder. Her late symptoms and issues, paired with various test results, indicates that she most likely has MS as well. Bipolar, randomly occurring palsies, vision and auditory disorders, high frequency tremors, scattered white matter foci on her brain, etc... neither of us are under any illusions that she can do just fine without medication. 

But the various side effects and continuous medication merry-go-round do suck big monkey balls. 

Oh well. I still love her to death.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Wow, that must be really difficult for both of you. Lithium is a tough drug. All the blood testing to make sure it's at the right level, the nausea that goes along with it because you're almost toxic all the time period honestly, when you look at all the side effects of these kinds of medications, it's understandable that some people don't want to be compliant in taking them. I know someone who was very slender and healthy and till she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and within 6 months of taking medication she gained almost 50 pounds. I wish they would put some time and effort into creating medications that didn't do this to people's bodies.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

personofinterest said:


> I think everyone who is anti medication should spend 6 months inside the mind of someone with major depression or bipolar disorder or schizophrenia. Then maybe they would understand the arrogance of assuming no one needs medication. And as for bipolar disorder being behavior based, anyone who knows how to read knows that is not true. Bipolar disorder is physiological.


What exactly does "anti medication" mean? I hate taking medications, but for three years i took over a thousand milligrams of lithium and over a thousand milligrams of verapamil every day in order to treat chronic cluster headaches. I took it because i was willing to kill myself if there was nothing i could do to escape the beast, but i hated the meds. 

Earlier, you asked if i understood(well, accused me of not understanding) bipolar because i said that i thought my wife would be healthier if she were able to do without the medication. Yet, im one of the few people who spent years married to an undiagnosed bipolar sufferer who never thought about leaving, and i never judged her for it. Despite a condition that typically destroys relationships, we are quite happily married. I would think that i understand the condition better than most, and i have come to fully believe that medication is not the full answer. 

Learning constructive habits rather than destructive habits is the only way for her to really cope. The medications can't teach them to her, they only make it possible for her to learn them. Or, easier, i should say. She was able to learn them before, she just had a much harder time with it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> I think everyone who is anti medication should spend 6 months inside the mind of someone with major depression or bipolar disorder or schizophrenia. Then maybe they would understand the arrogance of assuming no one needs medication. And as for bipolar disorder being behavior based, anyone who knows how to read knows that is not true. Bipolar disorder is physiological.


Absolutely, I have had 2 family members and a friend who have taken their own lives while suffering from severe and debilitating and long lasting depression and others who have had been on medication because of the same thing. Its a serious illness that sadly kills many. :crying:


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

The thing about all these mental disorders is that they get diagnosed via behavior. Its not the bad feelings that destroy their lives, its what those bad feelings drive them to do and think that destroys their lives. The causes for the moods and emotions that drive them are not cut amd dry, its likely different for each person. 

A medication may relieve imbalances of neurotransmitters in the brain, but they are not the only things that are capable of doing so. There are a lot of different ways to engage the brain to correct an imbalance. Different things work for different people. Treating bipolar disorder with behavioral therapies is always going to be difficult because each person responds to them differently. But, at the same time, they also respond to drugs differently. 

My wife and i know several people with bipolar disorder who do not take drugs and manage to cope quite well. They all do different things to manage their depressive states and capitalize on their manic states in ways that wont make their next depressive state worse. The one thing they all have in common is an excellent support group of people who do not judge them and continue to support them. 

If i were home every day, there would be a lot of medications my wife probably wouldn't even take. I would be able to motivate her to do enough of the right things to keep her brain chemistry healthy. Exercise, diet, daily routines, accomplishments, etc. During her manic cycles i would work with her to enjoy her energy and productivity in ways that she would be able to positively reflect on during her depressive states. During her depressive states, i would be dragging her out of bed and taking her out to go do stuff, amd continue those accomplishments in order to trigger the parts of her brain that make her feel better about herself. 

Unfortunately, i cannot be there for her all the time. So we rely on medications and i constantly check in on her whenever i am away. I pay people to help her. I keep her mind busy with projects. I pay people to take her out to go have fun with our daughter so that she has fond memories of the things she did when she was manic. Things like that dramatically help her when she slips into her next depressive state. 

The medications help, but it is a very small part of what we do. And she wasn't diagnosed until just last year. They used some of her history going back to well before we met as part of the diagnosis, so we have been doing this without the right kinds of medications for the better part of a decade. Think about that. Unmedicated bipolar disorder type 1, for the better part of a decade, complete with episodes of psychosis. And i love her dearly, we have a pretty awesome marriage. But most people don't, or won't, do the things that i do. They would take her mood personally. I dont. I know damn well that she has very different needs than i do. I also know damn well that we could cope without the medications just fine if i were able to be home to support her all the time. But i also know that right now, she needs them. 

But again, medications are the smallest part of how we deal with her bipolar disorder. How we deal with MS, if it turns out she does indeed have it, would be a bit different story. But we are already dealing with all the symptoms of it anyway, so **** it. Bring it on. 

My biggest fear is not what she would do. I have only ever wanted to see her happy. My biggest fear is that something will happen to me, and i won't be able to take care of her anymore. Would the next person in her life love her as much as i do, or put in as much effort to understand her as i have? Would they be as patient as possible and as firm as necessary? 

Would she have developed the needed skills to cope without me? 

We have all heard the jokes of the bipolar ex girlfriend...


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

You know, I admire you. How many "men" would just kick her to the curb because it's too much trouble, and after all, life is all about convenience and unfettered happiness, right?

You actually MEANT your vows. What a concept.


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