# First Argument in our marriage, about a dog? Wife hates her own dog.



## Travis01 (Mar 6, 2014)

I am 26 and my wife is 24. I am in the Army, I work with computers, and she works with horses and aspires to be a professional rider. My wife and I are newly weds. We’ve been married for about 3 months, and we rarely argue. We’ve had a few serious discussions, but nothing that we couldn’t handle. 
Recently, we had our first argument, about our dog. We have two of them. One of them is a 10 month old lab (male) named Rascal and the other a year and a half old Doberman (female) named Keely. I LOVE dogs. I grew up with them and have always been a dog person. 

I moved her from Wisconsin a few months ago after we got married. In Wisconsin, she worked with horses all day and had 100 acres of field for Keely to run. My wife would work long days at the farm, 10 – 14 hours on average, all of which Keely had the entire time to run around and be a dog. I moved her down to Kentucky, where I am stationed, in order for her to pursue her career in riding. She got a nice job at a great farm that pays for her horses and enables her to go to shows. The farm is dog friendly. She loves her job and I couldn’t be happier for her. She takes Rascal to work every day. Rascal is really laid back, friendly, such an angel. She refuses to take Keely to the barn because of how she is. What do I mean by this? Keely is extremely hyper active, sometimes violent towards other dogs and people, and does not listen (she lacks proper training). We live in an apartment, and thus, Keely is confined to an apartment and does not get the attention and love she deserves. She fears Keely may jeopardize her job at the farm, which I agree with, however, when we leave Keely in the apartment, she is a terror. She has separation anxiety and tends to tear things up. 

None of you would believe how much energy this dog has. She can easily spend an entire day running, playing, and still be hyper as ever at night time. We took her to the dog park one day for 5 hours. She ran around most of the time being chased by other dogs. When she got bored with that, my wife and I threw a ball for her. We were tired and Keely was just getting warmed up. I honestly feel like she could be a racer, or a professional agility course runner. It’s unreal. We often yell at her for misbehaving in the apartment. She growls at everything, barks, and is very attached to both of us, so she tends to beg to be on the bed, beg for attention, stare at us when we don’t show her enough attention, etc. She has a lot of trouble sitting still too. Never stops moving. 

We also recently found out she has the ability to open up cabinets (because she ate almost all of our food last night and cost me a $900 vet bill). Last night, she ate 3 loaves of bread, 3 bagels, a bag of cookies, a half bag of rice, a box of rice crispy treats, a box of tapioca pudding, a half bag of Hershey’s chocolate chips, and some other things. As a result, she pooped several times all over the carpet and peed once. We typically do not have bathroom accidents with her, but due to the amount of food she ate, it was no surprise. This is not the first time she’s eaten loaves of bread and gotten into the trash many times. She is punished each time she gets into something she’s not supposed to. She occasionally chews things here and there but I expect that with dogs (mine did it too). Anyway, whenever Keely misbehaves, my wife gets extremely angry. She beats her to “correct” her behavior, sometimes uses the shock collar and often shocks her on highest setting, repeatedly. I don’t interfere with her discipline methods because we’ve almost argued about that once. She has asked me to shock the dogs several times when they do something wrong, and I am uncomfortable doing this. She tells me how to discipline them and asked me to be consistent with it because that’s how she disciplines them. To respect her wishes, I do as she asks. She tells me how much she hates Keely and how annoyed she is that she won’t change her behavior. She cusses a lot about her. I hear constant complaints about Keely, but no proposed solutions. 
I have proposed the following:

A muzzle – My wife says this is cruel for her because she can’t chew bones, toys, and drink water. 

A cage – She feels cages are cruel because they’re confined to a small place. Additionally, as a puppy, Keely watched another dog die from inside a cage. My wife feels this would be traumatizing to cage her after this event.

Room confinement – She ate a door once. So that’s a no go.
Training – we talk about this a lot, but neither of us has the time or energy do this consistently. I work 12 hours, sometimes more, 4 to 5 times a week (odd shift schedule). I try to do things with Keely on my days off, but it gets difficult as responsibilities pile up, chores need to be done, errands ran, etc… bottom line, we are both very busy people. Sending her to a trainer was mentioned, but we don’t have the money to be throwing around at the moment. My monthly output is dangerously close to my input and we hardly have extra money do anything. A trainer in this area costs several hundred dollars per week. It’s not something we have the ability to do. 

We agreed on a halter for her to prevent her from pulling, but it really doesn’t help much.

So, after all of the above we’re proposed and discussed, I finally mentioned to her that I feel that it is unfair for Keely to confined to an apartment and that we should find her a better home with someone who can spend more time and energy into her and give her the love she deserves as a dog. 

This caused our first argument. She was genuinely upset. She accused me of not spending enough time with Keely. That I always leave things out, or cabinets open, I encourage bad habits by playing with them incorrectly (hiding under blankets, letting them chew up old pieces of cardboard, letting them jump on me). She mentions that Keely needs an activity every day that makes her feel loved. I agree, but neither my wife nor I have dedicated our time to make this happen. Just this past Monday and Tuesday (we had both of these days off), we took care of some responsibilities and spent some time with one another. We watched movies, cuddled, and cooked together. We had a wonderful, relaxing, two days off, but we neglected Keely and Rascal as a result. Yes, I am to partially to blame for not spending enough time with Keely, walking/running her, training her, etc. I know I do not give Keely the attention she needs, but neither does my wife and last night she placed a lot of blame on me and guilt tripped me by saying that:

“The problem just needs to be fixed and if you're not willing to do it then I will. If you're not going to take her on daily runs I guess I’ll do it before I go to work. You don’t have much time off from work, the days aren’t consistent, so I’ll just do it before work”

“I think you and I have different views on what it is to own a dog and what to commit to when you decide to bring them home. .” (She actually brought them down here, I essentially adopted them as my own)

The last time we had an incident with Keely, my wife said something similar about “doing it herself” but never acted on the statement. This lead me to believe it was a guilt statement to get me to act.

Normally, I brush off a lot of her hypocritical comments because I know she’s under a lot of stress with her job, but this time it really got under my skin. I actually have quite a bit of time off since I work shift work, so I offer to take her on daily walks and I have worked with her many times on basic commands she has trouble with (it doesn’t help, this dog seriously does not listen and has the attention span of an ant). I did not bring these dogs into her life, she brought them into mine. When we got married, she brought them with her and I accepted them as my own. 

From my observation, my wife refuses to spend time with Keely and favors Rascal. She loves Rascal (and he is very well behaved). She brags about Rascal and gives him substantially more attention than Keely. She constantly yells at Keely, and all I hear out of her mouth is negativity about her. When I agree with her negativity and tell her we need to reach a solution together, she tells me I need to spend more time with her because she has no time. She blames Keely’s behavior on me. I told her I would take her for walks and spend time with her on my days off, but my wife said this is not good enough since it’s not “consistent” enough for Keely. Honestly, I could quit my job and spend 8 hours a day with this dog and she would still have energy for another 24 hours straight. I have never in my life experienced a dog with this much energy and this many behavioral issues. My opinion, this dog needs a new home.

Am I in the wrong for these thoughts? I really have no idea what I could do better. I am considering finding Keely a new home and just taking her there on one of my days off, but I know that would trigger a huge fight. Not sure which would be the lesser of the two evils. I feel like this issue isn't about the dogs and instead something about me. Help?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Travis01 said:


> .
> Training – we talk about this a lot, but neither of us has the time or energy do this consistently. I work 12 hours, sometimes more, 4 to 5 times a week (odd shift schedule). I try to do things with Keely on my days off, but it gets difficult as responsibilities pile up, chores need to be done, errands ran, etc… bottom line, we are both very busy people. Sending her to a trainer was mentioned, but we don’t have the money to be throwing around at the moment. My monthly output is dangerously close to my input and we hardly have extra money do anything. A trainer in this area costs several hundred dollars per week. It’s not something we have the ability to do.


Your poor dog needs excercise and LOTS of it. You and your wife should have considered that BEFORE you moved into an apartment with 2 big active dogs.

You do have the ability to do something about it. You just choose not to - other responsibilities are put before this one. That dog needs at least an hour of solid running, twice a day, every day. I used to have a german shepherd and they are the same. It's just what you have to do.

Your wife needs to knock it off with the cruel punishments - shock collars and beating the poor dog will not fix the problem. If I knew someone who did those barbaric things I wouldn't hesitate to report them for animal cruelty. That poor sweet dog  Your wife would do well to remember that the dog is capable of ripping her hand off but chooses not to. Pity your wife doesn't extend the dog the same courtesy 

When you married your wife, you knew she had dogs so those dogs are equally yours now and just as much your responsibility as hers.

I think you should rehome both dogs, get some goldfish and then your wife can go play with ponies all day and you can both watch tv and cuddle on your time off.

Sorry, but dog owners like this make me angry.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

The dog obviously needs to be re-homed. Big/active dogs should not be kept indoors at all imo. Toys dogs, yeah I guess, but the rest? WTH! Maybe for night time to sleep, anything more than that is just cruel. If you wife won't take the dog with her to work, and obviously you can't, then re-homing is the only option.

I think what's best for the DOG should be the first consideration. Keeping her locked up all day will never be good for her, no matter if you walk her daily or not. Your wife has the ultimate responsibility to look after the dogs because they are ultimately hers. I know, people might object to this, but that's just how it is imo with animals owned prior to a relationship forming.

You could suggest moving into a house with a large backyard?


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## Travis01 (Mar 6, 2014)

frusdil said:


> Your poor dog needs excercise and LOTS of it. You and your wife should have considered that BEFORE you moved into an apartment with 2 big active dogs.
> 
> You do have the ability to do something about it. You just choose not to - other responsibilities are put before this one. That dog needs at least an hour of solid running, twice a day, every day. I used to have a german shepherd and they are the same. It's just what you have to do.
> 
> ...


These dogs lived with her in a smaller apartment well before her and I were married. She chose to move down here to pursue her career and to be with me. I warned her that some changes would need to be made to accommodate the dogs, or that OUR careers may result in finding both of them a new home. She said we would make it work, and I agreed we would reach a solution together. This, obviously, did not happen.

You are absolutely right, she needs to run several times a day. We could put the time into it, but we do not. I mentioned that above when I gave the example of our time off. I know I’ve neglected her and I feel very badly about it. I’ve identified that I am unfit to take care of Keely the way she deserves to be taken care of, which is why I wanted to rehome her. We do not have any issues with Rascal and he receives 8 hours or more exercise 5 to 6 days a week (he gets to run around 400 acres of land the whole day). He gets plenty of love and exercise. So, rehoming him makes less sense to me. I feel my wife is being selfish by not considering finding Keely a new home; especially when she clearly feels negatively towards her.

Bottom line: Keely is not a bad dog. We are bad owners. I know this already. I cannot get my wife to agree on a new home for her and she comments about doing everything herself since I’m “not doing anything”. I'm not sure how to approach this situation without starting a fight.

Your comment about the ponies was condescending and uncalled for. I am coming here for advice and constructive criticism, not childish remarks about my wife’s career.


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## Travis01 (Mar 6, 2014)

breeze said:


> The dog obviously needs to be re-homed. Big/active dogs should not be kept indoors at all imo. Toys dogs, yeah I guess, but the rest? WTH! Maybe for night time to sleep, anything more than that is just cruel. If you wife won't take the dog with her to work, and obviously you can't, then re-homing is the only option.
> 
> I think what's best for the DOG should be the first consideration. Keeping her locked up all day will never be good for her, no matter if you walk her daily or not. Your wife has the ultimate responsibility to look after the dogs because they are ultimately hers. I know, people might object to this, but that's just how it is imo with animals owned prior to a relationship forming.
> 
> You could suggest moving into a house with a large backyard?


I agree, she should not be locked up all day. I would like to do what's best for the dog's interest and find her a new home. I cannot get her to agree on this. I consider the dogs to be ultimately hers, even though I share responsibility in them. I feel like I'm crossing the line by telling her she needs to rehome Keely.

I would love to move into a home, but finances will not permit this.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Was just thinking that if you both decide to keep the dog, maybe you could take turns to be the one responsible for exercising her. Instead of it being a haphazard "I'll do it", and nothing happening, you could agree to a week on/week off, or alternate day, or whatever works for you. 

Write it down, set it in stone so to speak. Give it a month or an agreed length of time to see if things improve.


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## Travis01 (Mar 6, 2014)

breeze said:


> Was just thinking that if you both decide to keep the dog, maybe you could take turns to be the one responsible for exercising her. Instead of it being a haphazard "I'll do it", and nothing happening, you could agree to a week on/week off, or alternate day, or whatever works for you.
> 
> Write it down, set it in stone so to speak. Give it a month or an agreed length of time to see if things improve.


Good idea. We have tried to do the taking turns thing, but it seems neither of us follow through with the agreement. This is primarily because we place other responsibilities in front of Keely. We're genuinely too tired to do anything. Both of us are exhausted by the time we get home.

I notice we don't follow through with other things either. Eating healthier, creating a photo book, taking more pictures of one another, exploring the area, making friends. Very often neither of us follow through with anything because all either of us want to do is sleep. It's very odd, but we both love to sleep. On our days off, we will sleep for 12 hours or more at a time. Just this past Monday, we slept from 9pm to 1pm (16 hours).


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Yeah, well most of those are general sort of things that most people make vague promises to do but no one ever bothers doing.

Having a printed out schedule for exercising a dog over the next two months (just an example) and stuck to the front of the fridge, with a box for a lovely green tick if it was done, or a big nasty red cross for 'no, he/she DIDN'T do it' might give you more incentive.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> then re-homing is the only option.


No it's not.In fact there are many options and one is really cheap plus 100% effective.

A bullet and a shovel are oftentimes a good option for animals who have social issues. 

I grew up in the country and have spent a lifetime around animals of all types and in many cases this is a more than justified option at times.


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## Travis01 (Mar 6, 2014)

breeze said:


> Yeah, well most of those are general sort of things that most people make vague promises to do but no one ever bothers doing.
> 
> Having a printed out schedule for exercising a dog over the next two months (just an example) and stuck to the front of the fridge, with a box for a lovely green tick if it was done, or a big nasty red cross for 'no, he/she DIDN'T do it' might give you more incentive.


Not a bad idea. I feel like if I made one of those it would either end up in the trash or wouldn't be used, but hey, I'll try something different to see if I get a better result.


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## Travis01 (Mar 6, 2014)

married tech said:


> No it's not.In fact there are many options and one is really cheap plus 100% effective.
> 
> A bullet and a shovel are oftentimes a good option for animals who have social issues.
> 
> I grew up in the country and have spent a lifetime around animals of all types and in many cases this is a more than justified option at times.


No.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Travis01 said:


> Not a bad idea. I feel like if I made one of those it would either end up in the trash or wouldn't be used, but hey, I'll try something different to see if I get a better result.


All you can do is try. If your wife, who is the one who ultimately wants to try make this work, doesn't try, then you have the evidence right there in black and white that she doesn't have the commitment required to keep Keely. If you fulfil all your own obligations, you can prove it.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

get rid of the dog.

this dog is too hyper for your life style and is destroying you house and marriage time to man up and do whats best for everybody including the dog and find a home that would be able to give it the space and exercise it needs.


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

One of the biggest mistakes people make when purchasing a dog is not picking one that fits their lifestyle. People really need to do research on dogs, their personalities, energy level, and bread traits (are they a working dog, hunting dog, etc.) before they buy a dog. Not every dog can be assimilated into every lifestyle.

Although the Doberman's aggressiveness has been toned down a bit through breading, they can still be aggressive if not given the proper training. She is showing signs of this already and if left unchecked you could be facing a law suit and she could be facing having to be put down.

The Doberman is a working bread. They were bread to be a guard dog, they are supposed to have a job to do. They need proper physical and emotional stimulation to avoid the problems that you are dealing with. 

I fear you two are setting this dog up for failure. She will become so philologically damaged that keeping her OR finding another home for her will soon not be an option.

The first problem you are concerned with is her hyperactivity. One thing you can try is to get a tread mill and put the dog on that for an hour on the days you cannot take her out. She really does need to go out every day though.

The other red flag I saw in your post is your wife's statement about the dog "needing to feel loved". Dogs are not humans, they don't "need" to "feel loved". What they do need is the proper environment for which they were bread for. They need to understand where they fit in with the other people and animals in their life. They need to understand what their role is, and for this dog, what her job is.

Dobermans are very sensitive emotionally. The yelling, shocking, lack of obedience training and exercise is much more physiologically damaging to the dog than not "feeling loved".

*I suggest you two sit down and do some hard core research on this bread. Then, putting all your emotions aside, decide what is best for this dog - logically. I fear it may be too late for her, but if she can get into the right home with people who understand and have the time and knowledge to work with her, she might have a chance.*


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. Both from your perspective and from the dogs. Regardless of other opinions, I think you CAN keep large, active dogs inside (not inside ONLY, mind you). I have three large dogs (two of which are foster dogs) in a very small 900 sq ft house. They range in weights from 40 lbs to 75 lbs. And in activity levels. But they get PLENTY of exercise to meet their needs. They also get training, mental stimulation, and copious amounts of attention. 

If I am reading your post correctly, Keely is aggressive with other animals and humans? And that is why she cannot come to your wife's job? How many hours does your wife work? I work about 8-10 hours a day and make sure I get up early (i.e. 5 am) to take care of all the animals. And we go to bed at a reasonable hour, like 10 pm. So there isn't really a lack of sleep - 7 hours a night. 

I like the idea of getting a treadmill for Keely. Since dobbies are meant to have a job, I highly recommend teaching her a specific thing that only SHE can do. A job of some sort. It'll help fulfill her need for mental stimulation. Does she have great recall? How is she off leash if you need her to leave something alone? If she is good off leash, consider buying a basket muzzle for her to wear. It's large enough that she can pant and most likely even drink water through it, but it'll prevent her from attacking someone. If the fear of attack is all that was preventing her from going to work with your wife, than she should be able to take Keely with her and she can get some much needed exercise. 

It's ironic your wife wants you to show Keely love, but she herself does not do the same. While I agree that dogs do not feel "love" the way we do. I know that my dogs NEED loving attention, cuddles, praise, and encouragement. 

My own dog is an 18 month old Golden Retriever mix. VERY HIGH ENERGY. But he has been trained that in the house, he needs to be calm. When guests come over he has to sit and wait for them to approach him. He's been trained what he can and cannot chew on. He is trained as to what is good and acceptable behavior and what is not. Non of that required an electronic collar (aka shock collar). While I don't condemn the e-collar as a training tool, I don't believe your wife should be using one on Keely, especially in the way it comes across in your post. An e-collar is meant to either compulse a dog to do something to remove the stimulation, or to correct a dog when they blow off a command. It honestly doesn't even sound like Keely is trained at all. So it is inappropriate to use that to correct her when she doesn't understand what you DO EXPECT. 

I think both you and your wife, if you decide to keep Keely, need to take obedience classes with her. Both of you attend. I go to an obedience club because classes are far less expensive than at for-profit businesses. It's one class a week for a hour, and the rest of the time we practice at home for maybe 5 minutes at a time 2-3 times a day. That's not a big commitment, imo. 

But, it may very well be in Keely's best interest to be rehomed. If you do decide to go that route, find a doberman specific rescue that will take her. They will have a better understanding of the breed and experience rehabilitating dogs like Keely so they are ready for their forever home. I wouldn't do it BEHIND your wife's back. But I personally would give her an ultimatum. Either your wife commits to putting Keely's needs above her own and provides Keely the much needed exercise, mental stimulation, socialization, and training OR you will surrender her to a doberman rescue. Those are her options. She isn't going to like it. But imo, she is being selfish and needs to grow up. 

I wish you the best.


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## ILoveSparkles (Oct 28, 2013)

married tech said:


> No it's not.In fact there are many options and one is really cheap plus 100% effective.
> 
> A bullet and a shovel are oftentimes a good option for animals who have social issues.
> 
> I grew up in the country and have spent a lifetime around animals of all types and in many cases this is a more than justified option at times.


WTF?? I hope you don't have animals.


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

a year and a half is still quite young, many dogs are still growing and maturing at this age. Still a juvenile! She will mature as the years go on. Now I'm sort of confused, why was she able to be around other dogs and horses just fine where your wife lived before, but now she is not able to be? I'm not sure I understand that, unless the dog did a complete 180. Maybe she's not as terrible at her work as she thinks? The dog was able to handle it before.

As far as needing to leave the dog at the apartment alone, you could pay a neighbor kid to walk the dog everyday. That would be super cheap, I don't even know, like 10 bucks a week? Depends on the age of the kid you pick. I think that would help A LOT. To be alone for hours in an apartment day in and day out and not be able to go to the bathroom must be stressful for such a young dog. You could even do doggie daycare and only do it like twice a week, even that would be a big difference! Two work days a week the dog can run around and play and get tired out. Does the dog have adequate toys to keep it busy? A good, solid nylabone to chew on? A kong? There are also many different type of natural things you can buy that can calm a dogs nerves that you could give to them before you leave them alone in the apartment. There are pheromones (found at Petsmart and the like) different treats and supplements that have chamomile and lavender and tryptophan that can calm nerves and anxiety. This could help both for when they have to be left home alone, and for having the dog around the horses at her work, as it could calm the dog enough to be more well behaved so she could come there everyday and run sufficiently. Just whatever you do, do NOT rehome the dog behind your wife's back. I don't think she'd ever forgive you for that, honestly.


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## gumtree (Jun 1, 2013)

Wow Travis, I get this situation! My exH and I had two dogs, both high energy working breeds (cattle and pig hunting). But one is well trained and sweet natured in all ways, we got her as a pup and put a lot of effort into training, socialising and exercising her. The other we got as an older rescue dog (still under 1yr old though) and he was a holy terror as we didnt have time and energy to train him right. I loved him to pieces despite his naughty naughty ways, but it was always added stress to our lives, as the two dogs would also feed off eachothers naughty behaviours, escalating the situation.

After we split I had both dogs in my care. As a result of the poor behaviour I knew would occur any time I took them out, I started leaving them at home all the time too. The embarrassment and stress that would occur when we were out in public was too much to face. So they both lost their fitness, and their quality of life went down. Worse, in a vicious cycle the behaviours got worse - because if they did go anywhere with me now they were even MORE frenzied due to all the pent-up energy and sudden over-stimulation.

I made the difficult decision to re-home the boy dog. My ex stepped up to the plate in this case and took him. So I know he is in good hands, with someone who has the time and energy to put into exercising and training him - he reports some really good progress. Now this dog is not competing against the other all the time he is more settled, and the pack mentality is not fed. As much as I loved this dog, his absence has been a weight off my shoulders! 

The other dog now can come with me to work sometimes. She gets exercised daily because I know 'walkies' does not mean two dislocated shoulders for me. I can let her off-lead knowing she wont hurt a dog or another person. She travels and ties up without barking and whining constantly. My ex reports a lot of the same improvements with his dog.

Sometimes letting them go is the kindest thing to do. You have already identified that you cannot commit to the changes you need to make for the welfare of this dog and your marriage. The description you give of your wife losing it and beating her would show how much this dog is stressing her out, she is helpless to correct her and resorts to this, which is unacceptable. Visualise life without Keely - it's a LOT less stressful. HUGELY so. Visualise Keely living with someone who can run her every day and give her the consistent firm attention needed to correct her behaviours before she hurts someone. Please read this post to your wife, I've been in this situation and it's hard. Good luck!
You both know what the right thing to do is - now do it.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> WTF?? I hope you don't have animals.


You must be a city person.  

Putting animals down for a number of reasons is normal farm life. Some get sick, some get injured, some just get too old to live properly on their own, and some just make such a nuisance out of themselves it becomes necessary. 

Then from there there are the one that just taste good on a sandwich or in a stew! 

It's not an enjoyable part of life (well the ones you can eat are not so bad) but it is often times necessary.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

We exercise our dog on the treadmill. It helps burn off that destructive energy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Travis01 (Mar 6, 2014)

Update:
My wife and I talked this morning. I told her we are both at fault for Keely’s behavior because we are not good owners for her. I said we need a make a plan of action and follow it, or I will find a new home for her. 

More fingers were pointed, on both sides of the table. Who did what/who doesn’t do what. I explained to her that I love our dogs, but if Keely is not being treated fairly, I will find a new home for her in order to do what is best for her, not us. She told me if I found her a new home, she would never forgive me. What it came down to after our heated discussion is that we’ve both been incredibly stressed by the extenuating circumstances of moving, finances, horses, dogs, health problems, drama with previous roommates, moving, in laws, the list goes on. I agree with her. We have both been under a great deal of stress and from my perspective; we have both handled it better than most would. We both feel like we are taking our stress related anger out on the dogs, and each other, and feel that we both have some communications issues to work on as well as some assessments of responsibilities. She told me giving her up is the easy way out and that giving her up is not an option. She asked me to give things a chance and that Keely can change positively. She also agreed to spend more time with her and train her more. We both had to go to work, so many of the things we wanted to talk about were left unsaid. We will see how things go.



JustHer said:


> One of the biggest mistakes people make when purchasing a dog is not picking one that fits their lifestyle. People really need to do research on dogs, their personalities, energy level, and bread traits (are they a working dog, hunting dog, etc.) before they buy a dog. Not every dog can be assimilated into every lifestyle.
> 
> Although the Doberman's aggressiveness has been toned down a bit through breading, they can still be aggressive if not given the proper training. She is showing signs of this already and if left unchecked you could be facing a law suit and she could be facing having to be put down.
> 
> ...


I actually used quite a bit of your advice in our discussion. You are correct, she needs training and lots of exercise. My wife and I have different outlooks on what the role of a dog is and how to handle them. We both have a lot of work to do in our marriage before we are ready for the next step – Kids. 

I like the treadmill idea. That will take a lot of training. Our apartment complex does have a treadmill in the community weight room, but I’m unsure if dogs are allowed in there. We’ll see.

I also fear for the well-being of our dog and feel she does needs a new home. The “corrections” being made are not corrections in my eyes. I feel it is abuse. It makes me wonder if she will take this out on our kids should we choose to have some. My feelings on this are mixed. Logical thinking is not her strong suite. She is a very emotional person and things don’t always leave her mouth sounding the way she wanted it to. Re-homing her is an option she refuses to consider, but if things do not improve and our marriage suffers as a result of the arguments about the dog, I will find Keely a new home. 



MysticSoul said:


> I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. Both from your perspective and from the dogs. Regardless of other opinions, I think you CAN keep large, active dogs inside (not inside ONLY, mind you). I have three large dogs (two of which are foster dogs) in a very small 900 sq ft house. They range in weights from 40 lbs to 75 lbs. And in activity levels. But they get PLENTY of exercise to meet their needs. They also get training, mental stimulation, and copious amounts of attention.
> 
> If I am reading your post correctly, Keely is aggressive with other animals and humans? And that is why she cannot come to your wife's job? How many hours does your wife work? I work about 8-10 hours a day and make sure I get up early (i.e. 5 am) to take care of all the animals. And we go to bed at a reasonable hour, like 10 pm. So there isn't really a lack of sleep - 7 hours a night.
> 
> ...


I feel large breeds need more space to roam. Keely hardly has any room to be a dog and is confined to the living room for 6 – 8 hours daily. Starting Monday when I go on day shift, she will be left alone for an average of 8 to 10 hours a day. I feel taking one dog to the farm while the other is confined to a living room is unfair.

I don’t agree with her discipline methods either.

Yes, Keely is sometimes aggressive towards other dogs and humans. I know this is going to sound aweful, but she doesn’t like African Americans, and obese men. I’m assuming this was because she was beat by someone who fits that description as a pup. She barks at everyone. Even kids. She is actually quite friendly once she greets the person, but if she is unable to greet them/get to them, she will bark/growl uncontrollably. She often lunges at people during walks. My wife is new to the job and has a professional image to maintain. Having Keely around her students (some of them are kids), other riders, other dogs of riders, is a liability. I completely agree with her on this aspect. She works an average of 8 to 12 hours a day. In the spring and summer she will work longer days as she attends shows and progresses in her career. I feel this will turn into a problem for Keely once she has longer days. 

I would like to send her to a trainer. That would be wonderful. We do not have the money to do that. Not even once a week. 
As I stated above, I will give her a chance to correct the issue before I resort to my last resort – finding her a new home. 



Adeline said:


> a year and a half is still quite young, many dogs are still growing and maturing at this age. Still a juvenile! She will mature as the years go on. Now I'm sort of confused, why was she able to be around other dogs and horses just fine where your wife lived before, but now she is not able to be? I'm not sure I understand that, unless the dog did a complete 180. Maybe she's not as terrible at her work as she thinks? The dog was able to handle it before.
> 
> As far as needing to leave the dog at the apartment alone, you could pay a neighbor kid to walk the dog everyday. That would be super cheap, I don't even know, like 10 bucks a week? Depends on the age of the kid you pick. I think that would help A LOT. To be alone for hours in an apartment day in and day out and not be able to go to the bathroom must be stressful for such a young dog. You could even do doggie daycare and only do it like twice a week, even that would be a big difference! Two work days a week the dog can run around and play and get tired out. Does the dog have adequate toys to keep it busy? A good, solid nylabone to chew on? A kong? There are also many different type of natural things you can buy that can calm a dogs nerves that you could give to them before you leave them alone in the apartment. There are pheromones (found at Petsmart and the like) different treats and supplements that have chamomile and lavender and tryptophan that can calm nerves and anxiety. This could help both for when they have to be left home alone, and for having the dog around the horses at her work, as it could calm the dog enough to be more well behaved so she could come there everyday and run sufficiently. Just whatever you do, do NOT rehome the dog behind your wife's back. I don't think she'd ever forgive you for that, honestly.


The farm she worked on in Wisconsin is also the farm she grew up on. She wasn’t pursuing a professional career before she moved her. She wanted to, but never had the necessary means. She knew the owners quite well, they were like family. There was one instance with the owner’s dog that caused a lot of this. 

After she got Rascal and he was only a few months old, the smaller dog (belonging to the owner) attacked him. As a result, Keely defended Rascal and nearly killed the other dog. Since then, she has been extremely aggressive towards other dogs. We often muzzle her when we go into an area with other dogs.
She always barked and jumped around while my wife rode. I think she wanted to play, and was jealous my wife was giving attention to the horses and not her. We tied her up next to the ring one time while my wife exercised a horse. She barked, jumped around, and whined the entire time. If we don’t tie her up, she runs into the ring and tries to jump on the horses, or run around them, barking uncontrollably. She also took her to a show once and she was even worse at the show. She ended up spooking another owner’s horse, the horse reared, and knocked the rider off. My wife was asked to take Keely away from the show.

I have mentioned your idea of getting others to walk her. My wife doesn’t agree with this idea because she is afraid Keely will be a liability. The last thing we need is an injured child/person, a run-away dog, or a lawsuit. This idea is a no go in both of our books.

She has TONS of toys. Several Nylabones. Several Elk Antlers (those things are not cheap), and her favorite toy a squeaky, tennis-ball-textured kong toy. She has more toys than I do clothes.

We have tried the natural remedies and the pheromones. They do not help. 




gumtree said:


> Sometimes letting them go is the kindest thing to do. You have already identified that you cannot commit to the changes you need to make for the welfare of this dog and your marriage. The description you give of your wife losing it and beating her would show how much this dog is stressing her out, she is helpless to correct her and resorts to this, which is unacceptable. Visualise life without Keely - it's a LOT less stressful. HUGELY so. Visualise Keely living with someone who can run her every day and give her the consistent firm attention needed to correct her behaviours before she hurts someone. Please read this post to your wife, I've been in this situation and it's hard. Good luck!
> You both know what the right thing to do is - now do it.


Your story sounds very stressful. I hope both dogs are doing well now. I would love for Keely to have a new home. Unfortunately right now that is unrealistic.

I agree with you that she is taking her anger out on Keely and that is inappropriate. Her discipline methods are not something I agree with, but I have to approach that cautiously. I am unsure how to go about that discussion safely. It’s difficult to put so much time and energy into Keely when work more than half the day, and responsibilities take up the rest. The same goes for her. I just hope we don’t have any more marital issues over the dogs. I have identified our inability to take care of her properly, but my wife still feels it’s best for her to remain with us. I mentioned most of what you said to my wife this morning, but she feels the stress is not coming from the dog and rather other external factors. She has requested I give her a chance, so I will do just that.


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

I am sorry things didn't go as well as you had hoped. As for the worry you have about your wife treating your future children the way she treats your dog - Young people often "react" to situations. I know I did. It took many years for me to learn not to do that. There are some good books out there that can teach proper communication skills and even good parenting skills. It might be wise to start reading them now and practicing the techniques.

As for the dog. Is your wife looking at this as if she has to rehome the dog it means she has failed? Maybe she cannot accept her own failure, she knows she can't train her alone and is projecting that failure onto you so she doesn't have to face it? One thing is for certain, she is not thinking of what is best for the dog.

Another thing to ponder. I had some friends that had a Sheppard. They had this dog for a few years and the dog was protective of them. They loved the dog very much, she went everywhere with them. They then had a baby. The dog was not going to let that baby take her place in the "pack". She almost bit the newborn. They had to rehome for the dog.

If you are going to have children while you still have pets, you need to make sure that the animals will not be a problem with them - before - you have them.


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

Travis01 said:


> I like the treadmill idea. That will take a lot of training. Our apartment complex does have a treadmill in the community weight room, but I’m unsure if dogs are allowed in there. We’ll see.


It's highly unlikely that you will be able to let the dog use the treadmill in the apartment/condo's community center. However you can BUY a treadmill for the apartment that she can run on. I've also seen people bike with the dogs running beside them. Or rollar blade for that matter. There are ways to get intense cardio in little amounts of time. 

Does your wife ride her own horses? Can she take Keely out on those rides? Keely can run along side as she rides and everyone gets to stretch their legs. 



> I feel large breeds need more space to roam. Keely hardly has any room to be a dog and is confined to the living room for 6 – 8 hours daily. Starting Monday when I go on day shift, she will be left alone for an average of 8 to 10 hours a day. I feel taking one dog to the farm while the other is confined to a living room is unfair.


It IS unfair. Which is why if you both put the time and effort into training Keely, you can get her to a point where incorporating her in your lifestyle is productive, instead of stressful. 



> Yes, Keely is sometimes aggressive towards other dogs and humans. I know this is going to sound aweful, but she doesn’t like African Americans, and obese men. I’m assuming this was because she was beat by someone who fits that description as a pup. She barks at everyone. Even kids. She is actually quite friendly once she greets the person, but if she is unable to greet them/get to them, she will bark/growl uncontrollably. She often lunges at people during walks.


I have a black golden retriever mix who is so exhuberent about meeting everyone that he lunges on leash and bark and barks and barks at strangers. It's VERY off putting to the stranger. He is NOT AGGRESSIVE. It's a matter of socialization, teaching impulse control, and mastering basic obedience. Check out the book, "Control Unleashed" by Leslie McDevvitt. It'll provide a structure for you and your wife to help Keely become confident and less reactive in public situations. I have heard MANY success stories about this book from many trainers and personal friends. 



> My wife is new to the job and has a professional image to maintain. Having Keely around her students (some of them are kids), other riders, other dogs of riders, is a liability. I completely agree with her on this aspect. She works an average of 8 to 12 hours a day. In the spring and summer she will work longer days as she attends shows and progresses in her career. I feel this will turn into a problem for Keely once she has longer days.


I agree. Having an out of control dog, off leash, around strangers, horses and kids is a BAD idea. When your wife is giving riding lessons, is she riding herself? Could she tether Keely to herself via a long leash so Keely can be outside, active, without any risk to the children? You can desensitize Keely to being around horses, kids or other dogs, but it takes time, patience, consistency, and training. When your wife is working LONGER hours, are you ready to step up to the plate and take ALL of Keely's care on yourself? 



> I would like to send her to a trainer. That would be wonderful. We do not have the money to do that. Not even once a week.


I apologize. I think you misunderstood me. Or I wasn't communicating well. It's a class you take the dog to once a week. Typically for 6-8 weeks. 

Google "your city name" obedience club. If you need help PM me. I found some clubs in KY for $70 per class, and each class runs 6-8 weeks. It's not a situation where you send the dog off to live at some trainer's house and she comes homes magically trained. That situation, imo, is a waste of money. I've seen many people send their dogs to "doggy bootcamp" but because the owners don't know how to train, communicate, or motivate their dogs (things you LEARN in obedience classes) as soon as they came home, whatever they learned at bootcamp faded away until they were left with the same problems. 



> After she got Rascal and he was only a few months old, the smaller dog (belonging to the owner) attacked him. As a result, Keely defended Rascal and nearly killed the other dog. Since then, she has been extremely aggressive towards other dogs. We often muzzle her when we go into an area with other dogs.
> She always barked and jumped around while my wife rode. I think she wanted to play, and was jealous my wife was giving attention to the horses and not her. We tied her up next to the ring one time while my wife exercised a horse. She barked, jumped around, and whined the entire time. If we don’t tie her up, she runs into the ring and tries to jump on the horses, or run around them, barking uncontrollably. She also took her to a show once and she was even worse at the show. She ended up spooking another owner’s horse, the horse reared, and knocked the rider off. My wife was asked to take Keely away from the show.


I truly think if Keely is made a priority, and trained, and worked with, that she can over come these issues. If you doubt that, take her to a Veterinary Behaviorist and have her evaluated. 

In the end, it'll come down to what your wife feels is important. Is it her career? Her marriage? Her dogs? 

My marriage is top priority for me, followed closely by my dogs. If your wife isn't willing to make HER dog a priority in her life, Keely WILL be better off in a home that will. 

These problems are fixable. But your wife needs to be invested in making it happen. And she NEEDS to learn appropriate ways to train her dog b/c abusing the dog is just going to make it insecure, and more likely to snap when she's finally had enough. 

I'm no expert, but I've been in the animal industries most of my life. Between dealing with horses and now with small animals. I've experienced pretty much everything an animal can throw at me. And I have YET to find a situation where I think the dog cannot change. 

I would be more than happy to talk with you more about it. You might get better training tips if you took the dog questions to a doberman specific forum. I'm sure it exists. I know there are plenty of dog forums out there. 

Best of luck! Please check-in and let us know how it goes.


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

you say you're in the Army, I'm assuming that means you will deploy at some point. Has your wife thought of what she would do in that situation, where you are gone for an extended period of time and she is the only caretaker of 2 dogs? And you say she works 10-12 hours a day, there is no way that dog can hold going to the bathroom that long day in and day out. Maybe if you bring that up to her it might make her think. Are you planning on getting a house together at some point soon? If apartment living was a temporary thing I'd say maybe just stick it out until then, we once had to do something similar. Now they have doggie doors and a fenced in backyard and that tires them out sufficiently with very little effort on my part. However, if it looks to be a few years until that happens, perhaps rehoming would be in the dog's best interest. Do either of you have any friends that perhaps would be willing to take your dog that would fit her lifestyle? That way you can trust the people AND visit them whenever you would like. That would be best case scenario.


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

I wish you the best of luck. Unfortunately what dogs need when they are being trained is time, and time seems to be something you are not really willing/able to give Keely.

As a minimum she needs to go to obedience classes with you or your wife and both of you need to follow up with the training at home.

Once she is a bit more obedient something like agility would be a great activity.

What really tires dogs out is mental stimulation, and a tired dog is a good dog. Physical activity is of course necessary, but it makes them fit, not necessarily all that tired. Keely's trashing behaviour is a sign of utter boredom and stress and it will only get worse.

The methods of disciplining her are, frankly, appalling, but it looks like you realise that already and your wife is the problem. However you say that you discipline her when she trashes the place. Do you do it when you see her doing it, or after you come home and find the disaster zone? Because if it is the latter Keely will never learn anything other than that you might turn on her when you come home for no reason she can fathom. She won't have the faintest idea it is due to the cupboard door she ate 2 hours earlier.

Our trainer had to deal with a Border Collie that was kept in a small house, unwalked and with minimal attention. It had been purchased to cheer up a mentally ill wife who was incapable of caring for it. Eventually husband realised something had to be done and took it to classes, but the damage had been done. It tried to attack anything and everything and eventually had to be put down.

Do Keely a favour and rehome her before it is too late. Even with the best of intentions your description of your lifestyle does not convince me that you have the wherewithal to train her properly and give her what she needs. I hope you can convince your wife to accept this option.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

One big flaw I see with your ultimatum is that the dog isn't yours to rehome. She was your wife's before you got married, correct?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

This is long, bear with me.

Your wife is a criminal. KY animal cruelty laws classify her abuse and prolonged electrocution of Keely as a Class D FELONY!

Keely lacks training, through no fault of her own, and is being abused because of your wife's failure to care for and teach her dogs correctly. Let's put it in your terms:
The army recruits you. You didn't ask for this army, they picked you out because they thought you were a cute little boy and didn't consider that you would grow up to be an independent person with wants and needs of your own. Your CO doesn't speak the same language as you and nobody has taught you that specific words mean that specific actions are expected of you. So you are left to your own devices. Then one day, you do something that is totally natural to you and meets your needs but your CO comes in and starts screaming at you in this unknown language and then starts beating you. Do you have any clue what you did wrong? Do you see where I'm going with this?

But honestly, all the training in the world isn't going to give Keely the lifestyle she desires. Even if you and your wife put in the effort to advance train her, she still isn't going to be happy waiting for you guys to wake up from your 16 hour naps to meet her needs. Which, by the way, aren't extra cuddles. 
Dogs have specific (and simple) needs.
1. Physiological needs. These are the givens. Food, water, a place to relieve themselves, hygiene, exercise.
2. Shelter. Self explanatory.
3. Security. A happy dog trusts her owner to not put her in harm's way. She knows exactly what is expected of her and what happens when she doesn't follow the rules. *She does not fear her owner because she knows he will do her no harm.* She is also not overly dependent on her owner because she feels secure in being alone sometimes. A trained dog is a secure dog.
4. Social needs. Dogs are pack animals. They become lonely when, you guessed it, left alone! The need to be socialized.
5. Esteem needs. Achieved through training. Knowing they did a good job by sitting when told and getting a good ear scratch for it!
6. Cognitive needs. The opportunity to think and problem solve. How to get that delicious treat out of that ball for instance. 


They are simple needs that honestly do not take up that much time in any given day when done consistently. Something that you and your wife are either not capable or not willing to partake in. You wife can say all day that Keely can get better, but it's not going to happen overnight, and it's not going to happen on it's own. Just from what you've said, I really don't believe that your wife is going to put forth the effort it is going to take to make Keely a happy dog.

If you and your wife genuinely care for this dog, GIVE HER UP! Get her to an owner that will take the time to work with her and has a lifestyle that will suite this poor pup. I bet if you gave her to an avid hiker, you would get reports in under 6 months about what a fantastic companion she is!!


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Can't your wife at least take the dog and tie her up outside while she works? Anything has to be better than being stuck inside for 8-10hrs straight. Tie her up to a tree a long way from any other animals with a long lead or something. I can't understand why the dog has to be locked inside while the other dog can be taken to the farm when this option is available.


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

Tying her to a tree is little better than leaving her at home. The only real benefit there is that she won't tear up the house (and maybe avoid some more physical abuse!) It does not, however, benefit the dog in means of giving her the attention she so desperately needs and deserves. And now she has to contend with getting caught up in ropes and possibly injuring herself. I don't know about KY but in our state it is illegal to leave dogs tied up. 
If you insist on being completely selfish and keeping her, at least crate train her. She will not be "traumatized" by it, despite what she saw as a puppy. Believe it or not, most dogs enjoy having a secure spot of their own. I have a 120lb American Bulldog who won't sleep a wink at night if he doesn't have his bed in his crate to crawl into and if we have too much company and he's getting overwhelmed, he hightails it straight to HIS spot.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

At least the OPs wife might have some time, when on break or whatever, to go and sit with her dog. Maybe the other dog would stick close by too, so she has some company. I don't know, my own experience as a dog owner just wouldn't allow me to leave a dog alone for such long periods, in a small space. Boredom and lack of fresh air and sunshine, sights and smells; they have a right to quality of life too.


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

I totally agree breeze! They have a right to a quality of life, and as long as these two owners keep this dog, she will not receive it. What will they do when he gets deployed and she's away at a horse show? They've already said they can't afford a kennel and she won't take this poor pup with her, so what will she do then? Leave the dog home alone for the weekend, locked up with some food and water slopped down? Get furious when she comes home to find feces, urine, and couch stuffing thrown around the house? They do not have the time or ability to provide for the dog as she deserves but are too selfish to give her a better life.


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