# Me [36 M] with my wife [38 F] married for 8 years. Dealing w/ ongoing trust issues.



## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

I posted this elsewhere, but also wanted to throw it out to the TAM crew. I've been reading for years and have posted some of this previously. This post is a bit different because it's now been a year since anything has happened. Things are comfortable and I would classify the marriage as semi-happy, but I'm still having trouble dealing with trust issues and need perspective...

Thanks in advance.

Married for 8 years with two children (4-8.) I've always had a small degree of insecurity, but I completely trusted my wife for the first 5+ years of our marriage. For the last two years that complete trust has been replaced with a distant nagging insecurity that I don't know if I can deal with any longer. Hoping to get perspective by sharing.

My own insecurity comes from having absolutely no good relationship role models in my life. My parents divorced before I can remember. My sisters have been in and out of marriages. Recently we find out their husbands did horrible things to them that only came out after the fact. Many of my best friends have done horrible things to their husbands/wives. Especially recently. I'm not blind to how horrible people can be and often are. These things make it hard for me to deal with my own story below. Sorry for how long it became. 

One thing to note up front. My wife was married once previously. She let me know early in our relationship that she had cheated on him with a co-worker in the final stage of their marriage before they were divorced. I was happy that she was honest with me before we got married. It never once affected my trust or insecurity in the 1st five years of our marriage.

*The Emotional Affair*

My wife reconnected with her 1st boyfriend a couple of years ago on Facebook. He lived a couple of states away and was recently married, so I was totally find with them reconnecting on Facebook. I wasn't worried in the least. She chatted with him most evening for a while as I did my thing on the compute next to her. Couple weeks later, this guy gets a divorce from his wife and my wife chats with him a bit more often...

Completely acceptable Facebook friendship turned into an unacceptable daily/nightly chat-fest. I mentioned to my wife that I am no longer OK with her chatting quite so much with this guy, especially since he had just gotten a divorce and was in a vulnerable place. Told her that it was affecting my ability to sleep knowing that she was on the couch chatting with him for hours after bed-time, etc... Wife acknowledged that it was hurting me and said she'd stop. Later found out wife started to hide their conversations and didn't just didn't talk to him on Facebook while I was around. Sleeping on the couch became a lot more normal, etc.

After a while I got suspicious and begrudgingly snooped. Found out the frequency of talking actually increased and moved to the in-game chat of a mobile app. 100's of messages most days. I let her know that I snooped and we talked again about how I wasn't OK with her chatting with this guy so much, especially with their history and his current situation (available and broken.) Told her I couldn't stop thinking about it and interfering with work. Reiterated that I trusted her but didn't trust him at all. Especially knowing guys and that he was in a vulnerable and unstable place.

Few months of this continue. I feel like I need to check-up on their secret chatting every few days. I decide to check one night that she is at work. Read through messages and learn that he is planning to visit family in our state. They talk about meeting and she even mentions that she isn't going to tell me because she knows it bothers me... I'm in disbelief by what I've read. I check again a few hours later and they've been chatting constantly. She mentions to him that I had previously read their messages and she asks him how she can hide their conversations. He gives her his Phone number and a brief tutorial on how to delete messages and turn off notifications, etc.

This is too much for me... Starting to hide things deliberately from me and making plans to increase the secrecy... I confront both of them in the same chat and tell her that she better call me if she has any hopes of our marriage working out. She comes home and after a few days we are able to set some guidelines and reconcile.

Simple guidelines are that we wont have contact like that with exes from our past without letting the other person know. We also agree that she breaks off communication with him and that we have full disclosure for a while. I can snoop if I'm feeling insecure for a while and that we don't have anything to hide from each other. Things are horrible for me for a few months and then I begin to trust more again. It takes a full year for me to stop being paranoid and I make a New Years Resolution that I wont snoop again. The new year seems to be going great!

*Disturbing Second Instance*

A few months into the year, my spider sense starts to tingle... I feel like a douche and break my new year's resolution and begrudgingly snoop again. I find out that my wife stopped in to see an ex boyfriend at his work-place. She is deleting the messages immediately after they come in or are sent. I'm lucky to have seen what I did. Also, this ex just so happens to be the ex boyfriend that she cheated on her previous husband with. In my opinion, there couldn't be a worse person to find out that she met and was reconnecting with. Our guideline is obviously being ignored. I read a few E-mails and they talked about trying to get together for lunch and my wife mentions that she has Thought about him every day for the last 9 years, etc. My Trust has been rattled again. It's horrible because I had finally almost recovered from the breach of trust from the previous year.

I confront her the next day and I'm on the verge of wanting a divorce. We talk about both incidents and after a few days decide we have too much going for us and decide to work on things. She explained that she had just happened to be at the hospital he works and decided to stop in. Admitted that she had hidden things because she was worried about me finding out, etc.

*Why I'm posting over a year after the last event*

I love my wife, but I'm not sure I'll ever be able to trust her fully again. Every now and again I get the urge to check up on her. It kills me to feel that way about my wife. I know it's totally wrong on my part to feel the need to do it and it's a breach of her privacy. It's not fair to me and it's not fair to her. However, I haven't been able to fix myself enough to stop. I would classify our marriage as content. We work fairly well together with our children and really do have a lot going for us. House, finances, retirement, etc... On a personal level, I feel that we are in a semi-happy marriage and somewhat going through the motions. Sex life is adequate. We both work. We don't fight really, but we both get butt-hurt on occasion and wont talk for a couple of days before we make-up. Fairly normal stuff. There have been no further incidents that I know of.

My issues. I feel like I would be happier divorced more often than not. I love my kids. I love my wife, but we are not in-love. I feel like I will never fully trust her. I don't think it's fair that I can't fully trust her. I still occasionally check up on her when I'm feeling especially insecure. She works quite a bit and stays late at work often. In the back of my head, I'm always wondering if something else is going on. She consistently got better at hiding things from me over the past couple of years and I'm always wondering if she is finally just good enough to not be caught. I fully realize that I can't control another individual and that she could do whatever she wants without me finding out. I'm more worried about finding out in 10 years that she had an affair. All my insecurities, I know.

You might think that both the previous instances were minor and she ultimately did nothing wrong. Besides the deliberately hiding stuff from me, I actually agree. But in the back of my head I always wonder how far the EA with her 1st boyfriend would have gone. Especially after they met. Would she have cheated on me with the cheater from her previous marriage. Hard to turn those kinds of thoughts off... Yes, I admit at this point I'm insecure to a degree that id hard to deal with. How does one turn those thoughts off. Just accept things as they are and open yourself up to being hurt. Lack of trust is a killer.

I don't think it's fair to her that I don't trust her. Especially if/when I feel the urge to snoop. I have suggested counseling twice before. Both time around one of the trust-breaking incidents. She was never really willing. At this point, I don't think it's something I would really be interested in doing either.

*The question*

Without enough trust, is a marriage worth having. Sure, there are a lot of things going for us. I can't help but think we would both be happier separate. She could re-connect with whomever she wished and wouldn't have an insecure husband looking over her shoulder. We could both move on with our lives before we're too old to do so. I could live alone and not bother another with my insecurities. Divorce would suck, but I think we'd get through it easier than many couples. I can't imagine it would be a cut-throat battle that would ruin both of us and the kids. The kids would obviously be better off with both of us in their lives each and every day, but I think we'd co-parent decently afterwards and try to minimize the impact on them... In many ways, I feel like that's what I want. However, if I could only fully trust my wife again, like I did for the first 5 years of our marriage... I just don't think that's ever going to be possible at this point.

Again, I'm just hoping someone out there will have some advice or perspective on the situation. Should I stay. Should I go. Stick it out for the kids. Spare my wife from dealing with an insecure husband. Spare myself from being insecure all the time. Let her free to reconnect with anyone.

*tl;dr* I no longer fully trust my wife due to past Emotional Affair, and other incidents etc... I see people getting hurt or doing horrible things to people they love all around me. I have become insecure in relationships. Especially my own marriage. Things are comfortable now, but I feel like I can no longer cope with my own lack of trust and the need to snoop on my wife on occasion. Wondering if divorce is the answer to free her from me and free myself from myself! Looking for perspective.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

FIRST!
DNA yo kids. 
Because I ain't family!!!

Second. DIVORCE

You typed you would feel hapier divoreced than marriied. More oftne than not. 

I dion't see this getting better. 
She isn';t getting hotter. You aren't getting younger. 

Enjoy life!!!


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Todi said:


> I've been reading for years and have posted some of this previously.


IF you've been reading for years, then you already know what I'm going to say.

What has she been doing to rebuild the trust that she destroyed? Is she transparent? Is she helping you heal? Why do you think that she did nothing wrong? 

This is why your resentment is building because you've been rug sweeping. You feel guilty for snooping? After her past history of cheating and then having 2 EA's on you? 

Seriously? It blows my mind that you feel even the slightest bit guilty for that.

But obviously, if you're rug sweeping and she's not being transparent and helping you heal, then it's no wonder you feel this way.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> IF you've been reading for years, then you already know what I'm going to say.
> 
> What has she been doing to rebuild the trust that she destroyed? Is she transparent? Is she helping you heal? Why do you think that she did nothing wrong?
> 
> ...


Then you know what MMSLP and NMMNG mean.
READ THEM!


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

She continued(S) to break her promises of no contact with her *previous OM.*

They have a sexual history.

She met him in person at least once(that you know of...).

The writing's been on the wall for years my friend. If she hasn't had sex with him yet(and the juries still out on this), she going to(the way things have been going that is).

Your first mistake was your worst mistake. You should have printed up D papers the first time that she re-contacted him(after saying that she wouldn't). Filled out your part of the forms. Handed the D packet to her and left for a few hours.

A VAR would have went a long way in those two hours, btw.

She has no real fear that you'll leave her over this, because you so far, you've shown that you won't.

You need to have all your ducks in a row before you catch her the next time(And there will be a next time). The best way to compete with her previous/same OM is not compete with him at all.

Show her that you'll walk/send her packing if you catch her again. And she will most likely do it again. It seems to just be her nature to.

I'm curious. How long was she married to her ex-husband before she started cheating on him? How long was she married to you before you caught her the first time?... See where I'm going with this?


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## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

lordmayhem said:


> What has she been doing to rebuild the trust that she destroyed? Is she transparent? Is she helping you heal? Why do you think that she did nothing wrong?


She has been transparent and I have all of my old techniques for checking up on her. I don't believe anything has happened in the past year. Unless she has created hidden accounts to hide her communication with others, I haven't found anything... She has plenty of time while at work to do such things if she wanted to.

As most of you know, some weeks/months are better than others for those of us dealing with trust issues. We all have our triggers and things that make our spider senses tingle... Most of the year has been decent without me feeling like something is going on. The hardest times is when she works and ends up staying late. I'm sure it happens for legit reasons, but it's definitely a trigger.

There are other things that have happened outside of our marriage over the last few months that have also rocked my sense of trust and reminded me just how horrible people can me. Those things are actually probably the catalyst for me re-evaluating all of these feelings and whether it's worth it.

All of these thing weigh heavily on me. People are horrible and I'm losing what few examples of decent relationships I've ever had. And they are few to begin with. With my own history, it makes me feel like I can't cope any longer. Spending my time divorced and focuses on myself and my children seems like a much better alternative.

I do love my wife even if we aren't "in love." She is a great mother. She works a lot and takes great care of our household. But without trust and my ongoing insecurity, is it worth it!? That's the crux of the perspective I seek. I think I already know the answer, but it's good to hear other people confirm what I might already be thinking....

Thanks for taking the time to respond!

Edited: Removed list of horrible things. Too personal.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I have to admit, that I just merely skimmed your story and didn't analyze it. Now that I have, the only thing I can say is that you have to divorce this serial cheater.

I still don't believe that second EA hadn't gone PA. From what I've seen, if OM is local, then PIV is a very, very, strong possibility. In your case, she previously banged OM when she was cheating on her first husband, so they already have a sexual history.

She fully admits to deliberately hiding things from you. She's quite obviously looking to have another affair if she isn't already in one. 

IF you stay with her, you can look forward to her cheating over and over again.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

your first sign was when she told you she cheated.
your second sign...
your third sign..

sign up for a D. get her out of your life. she will cheat with someone then on him. -- until she is old, dried up and unattractive or dead from disease.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Your W is the consumate queen of deception~ by dissing you as her H, getting fastly caught in her web of lies and apparently using you as her "Plan B" until such time that she can effectively make the switch in relationships!

You need to do "the 180" and lawyer up! She is not repentant in the very least! *


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm sorry to say this, but I don't believe she loves you. I believe you're the safe plan B and she's not at all marriage material.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

*I know it's totally wrong on my part to feel the need to do it and it's a breach of her privacy. It's not fair to me and it's not fair to her. However, I haven't been able to fix myself enough to stop.*

She lost the right to privacy when she started hiding stuff.
She lost the right to privacy when she started to discuss how better to hide stuff.
You are right, it's not fair to you at all.
She is probably better at hiding stuff now, she's had practice. She now knows not to bring it home where you can snoop. Apps like whatsup you can delete the conversations and you would never know.

A life without trust is not a life at all. Living with that nagging doubt, waiting for her to cheat again. 

Has she ever gone to MC or IC? 

How has she affair proofed the marriage apart from making promises?

Do you want a wife to share your life with, be intimate with or do you want a glorified house keeper and babysitter because that is what you've got.

Two ex boyfriends and god knows whom else.

Run.


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## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

Ugh. The idea of being someone's safe *Plan B* is a horrible thought... But I can't say it's not a very possible reality. =( All the more reason to move on.


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## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

BobSimmons said:


> Do you want a wife to share your life with, be intimate with or do you want a glorified house keeper and babysitter because that is what you've got.


Not sure a future marriage would ever be something I would want. How do you learn to trust again...

But yes, staying for the other really good qualities isn't enough. Glorified house keeper and babysitter might not be completely accurate, but when I look at the good things in our marriage. Her motherhood, housekeeping and financial stability stand out at the top. All great qualities but mean **** without trust. I think your statement is enlightening and puts the good things in our marriage in a different light.



BobSimmons said:


> Run.


Might be the best advice so far. =)


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## dental (Apr 16, 2014)

Todi said:


> ... but when I look at the good things in our marriage. Her motherhood, housekeeping and financial stability stand out at the top ...


These are qualifications for a nanny. I urge you to do what a men should do in these situations: make a decision.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Todi said:


> She explained that she had just happened to be at the hospital he works and decided to stop in.


 That answer does not explain why she thought that it was OK for her to drop in on her former affair partner, why it was OK for her to secretly email him, why it was OK for her to make plans "to get together for lunch" with him, or why she thinks that it is OK for her to tell him that "she has Thought about him every day for the last 9 years". All it tells you is her current lie as to how her affair with her former affair partner got started again. I say current lie, because she is a confirmed liar, so why believe anything she says?



Todi said:


> Admitted that she had hidden things because she was worried about me finding out


 So her being worried that you would find out that she was cheating again, is her reason why it is OK to lie and hide things from you? She said that to you to your face as if that is a good reason? On what planet does that make sense?


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

I am sorry that you find yourself having to make this decision. To me the EA can be harder on you emotionally as the line between reasonable and paranoid can be thin. I know that you have asked yourself this a million times, am I being paranoid or am I being played for a sucker. I do agree that trust is a cornerstone of a marriage. 

You stated that you do love your wife, is this still true after the EA? I know that you respect her as good mother and homemaker, but do you love her as a man should love his wife? How is the intimacy in your relationship? I am not just referring to sex, though obviously that is part of the equation? 

Trust is essential to a marriage, but that is a two part thing between you and another person. She can do things that help you to regain trust, but the other part of the equation is on you. She can't make you trust her. Equally the decision to stay or go is your alone. Before you throw in the towel, I would recommend that you seek profession assistance from a marriage counselor to help repair the relationship.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You are not irrationally insecure. You must know that. She has destroyed your trust with her sneaking around. (You know what they say, 'Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you.')

I know many people in loving relationships. It isn't hopeless. You're still young and could meet someone whose values better match your own. If you're not in love, don't want to have to police a wayward wife, and are not frightened by divorce, then why not make the jump?

She's not going to magically change. She would have to put in the work to do it, and you would have to see the percentage in sticking around to force her to do that work.


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## Nawlins (Feb 25, 2015)

Todi,

Maybe it’s time to enlist the help of others. Perhaps a PI, someone who knows what to do with technology to help you track her activities, friends, etc. These may be the things you need to have peace of mind. I would also suggest writing down all the thoughts you have about your marriage and talking with your wife about them. If her previous cheating and her hiding the recent relationships is an issue for you bring them up. If you feel that you two are just a good marriage but not in-love bring it up. 

Perhaps suggest MC as a way for the two of you to talk it out and see if your marriage is reparable, or if an amicable split is better for the two of you. Just let her know where you are and see where she is at. Most importantly, think about what you need to do to take care of yourself. Working out, eating well, IC, whatever that might be to put you in a good place.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

TRy said:


> "she has Thought about him every day for the last 9 years"


Yep, when a woman says that to a man it means, "I've thought about f-ing you for the last X number of days/ months/years and I'm ready anytime you are." This guy has most likely taken her up on it. And if not, its not her fault.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

Todl, 

So much to say. pardon the incomplete sentences, but its shorter.
1. You are broken. You marry a former cheater? How long after her last marriage? Why? What did she do to fix herself? 

2. Why are you taking on everyone else's problems that are unrelated to your marriage and superimposing them on your marriage? Those are poor coping skills. You need help.

3. Her AP is the same from her first M? She never finished in her heart with this guy, is not finished with him, and will never be. He is her kryptonite. She let him ruin her first and invited him to the second. You can dither about what you should do, but be clear on what she will do. she said she's thought about him daily for years. Truer words have never been spoken.

4. Checking up on her: I don't think its how to live. Some guys do it and insist on it. That, to me, is hostage keeping. Trust is key. I like peace and security. If its not there because of someone, then they have to go.

5. You love her: So what and why? Abused women love their abusers. Still, they need to end it. You can love someone else AFTER you get your mind right.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

ThePheonix said:


> Yep, when a woman says that to a man it means, "I've thought about f-ing you for the last X number of days/ months/years and I'm ready anytime you are." This guy has most likely taken her up on it. And if not, its not her fault.


I can't speak for women obviously but I think about a woman regularly that I haven't seen or spoken to in over thirty years. I have no desire to see or speak with her. We went together during college and a little after.

On top of that I'm guessing she could have said something like that to flatter him.

Op, get a pen var for her purse, a var for her car and one for the house. Find out how she talks about you to her friends relatives etc. You can't believe her since she has deceived people before. However, she may have matured into a good wife and mother. If you found she is faithful you might get your feelings back for her. Also, use her phone or GPS, both is better, to see if she is really at work when working late.

Breaking up your family is not going to solve all your problems either.

Can you put find my phone on her phone. Does she leave her phone lying around? Do you have the password?

Has your sex life changed in the last few years?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Todi said:


> I do love my wife even if we aren't "in love." She is a great mother. She works a lot and takes great care of our household. *But without trust and my ongoing insecurity, is it worth it!?* That's the crux of the perspective I seek.


No, it's not worth it. *Trust* and *security* are the foundation of a marriage. Without them, you are just living with a person who could be anyone; you do not have a WIFE in the true sense of the word.



Todi said:


> I think I already know the answer, but it's good to hear other people confirm what I might already be thinking....


You already DO know the answer. Now act on it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'll speak for women. Your wife can't be trusted, and you can either live with that or not. You'll have to learn to detach if you want to live with it.....i personally could not live this way but it's your life. 


She likes male attention, and whether or not she's already had an affair makes no difference where this is concerned. She'll continue to hunt for male attention and you'll spend your life either checking up on her or thinking about it until you detach and don't care anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RespectWalk (Mar 16, 2015)

I think she's hoping you'll be the doormat of her dreams. Will you be? _<because at this point that is what you are>_


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Todi, I mean this with the best of intentions and hope you don't feel offended in any way.

IMHO, you have spent the vast majority of your life living around low quality people. Because of this you have not had the pleasure of having a real friend or strong family role models to mold and guide you - which you have already acknowledged. You have a good awareness of the sludge that permeates your life. The bottom line is that you have toxic people all around you. Here is what I think you need to do.


Divorce. Your wife is trash, she will not change and you need to jettison this anchor in your life.
Go see a professional. You have had crap role models plus have been exposed to a lot of crap in your life. Get a professional to help you sort through the mess and to help you figure out a healthy way to process situations and react as a healthy, well adjusted adult.
Lose to codependency, which I think is pretty clearly coming out since your wife continues to cross the line that you keep having to redraw. Your fear of becoming "another statistic" in the tragedy that is your family is paralysing you from doing what you need to do.
Find a woman that doesn't have baggage. I'm not talking about divorceed moms or people that have had misfortune in their lives, because who doesn't have some life scars at the 30+ year marks. But say no to women who were prior cheaters, former drug users, alcoholics and I hate to say it (please no one get upset at me) but people who came from traumatic childhood experiences like molestation.

Just my take. Good luck.


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## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

VFW said:


> You stated that you do love your wife, is this still true after the EA? I know that you respect her as good mother and homemaker, but do you love her as a man should love his wife? How is the intimacy in your relationship? I am not just referring to sex, though obviously that is part of the equation?


I do love her, but it's definitely not the same kind of love I should have for her. We've had intimacy issues from the start. Her family is devoid of intimacy and I think she grew up learning that from them. I found early on that my casual intimacy was met with negative feedback so I learned over the years not to do the things that come natural to me... Negative feedback and no reciprocation has made for a less-than-intimate marriage. The sex is good, but that is the only time I feel that we connect on a really intimate level and I think that is a big problem over-all too.

Being a guy, I don't think I need tons of intimacy, so I don't think it's been a huge problem. But definitely something that comes up any time we're fighting.



VFW said:


> Before you throw in the towel, I would recommend that you seek profession assistance from a marriage counselor to help repair the relationship.


I think that's the decision I'm trying to make right now. After a year of not being able to get over my trust issues, counselling might be an option to help with that. Honestly though, I'm not sure that's what I want. All the counseling in the world and I can't imagine ever fully trust her.


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## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

Nawlins said:


> Todi,
> Maybe it’s time to enlist the help of others. Perhaps a PI, someone who knows what to do with technology to help you track her activities, friends, etc.


I'm definitely not interested in snooping more at this point. If that is the answer to moving forward in my marriage, then the answer is divorce at this point.

Counselling might be the answer to fixing my insecurity. I've thought about IC. Maybe I'll try that for a bit 1st. Talking it through might make a choice more obvious or at least open up other options. I have a good friend who was divorced a while back and always gives good advice. I'll talk it through with him. =)


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## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

bigfoot said:


> 1. You are broken. You marry a former cheater? How long after her last marriage? Why? What did she do to fix herself?


We're all broken to some degree. She was up-front and honest about her past prior to us getting married. That actually seemed to make me trust her more. I want to be with someone that is willing to take responsibility for bad decision and own up to them. It was also a negative because at the 1st sign of her EA, that's the only thing I could think about. So you're 100% correct. I'm broken but learn from my own mistakes too...

The history of our marriage shows that she is untrustworthy and that the whole reason I'm posting. I don't think I can deal with it any longer. If I can't learn to trust over the past year, I don't think there is hope for her R moving forward.



bigfoot said:


> 2. Why are you taking on everyone else's problems that are unrelated to your marriage and superimposing them on your marriage? Those are poor coping skills. You need help.


I'm not really taking everyone's problems on. I was thrust into the middle of my Best Friends issues where I think I was really able to help both to some degree. I think that's what friends are for. However, it has even shattered my trust in my friend. If both of them are capable of doing this to each other, when I never thought either of them had it in them... Maybe my infidelity-radar is broken and I'm a horrible judge of character. Which makes me question my own situation that much more.

Poor coping skill... Sure. I need help. That's what I'm seeking here. =)



bigfoot said:


> 4. Checking up on her: I don't think its how to live. Some guys do it and insist on it. That, to me, is hostage keeping. Trust is key. I like peace and security. If its not there because of someone, then they have to go.


I agree. I feel like it's not fair to either of us, even if it's justified. And I refuse to continue doing it...



bigfoot said:


> 5. You love her: So what and why? Abused women love their abusers. Still, they need to end it. You can love someone else AFTER you get your mind right.


In posts like this, you outline all the negative **** that's happening. You don't have time and people don't care to learn about all the good things that have happened in 8 years of marriage. I will always love her to some degree, but never again like either of us deserve. The idea of finding someone that is trustworthy that I can depend on 100% sounds great. Being *broken *myself, I'm not sure that will ever be possible. But I'll never find out unless I try ...

Thanks for taking the time to post. I found it helpful and you raised great questions.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

You have every right to have trust issues and what you need to do is weed out the root problem and she's the one causing it.
Look, if you can't trust her and she's doing nothing but adding more distrust to the marriage then you need to let her know that time has come today and her days of deceit are over and your done. This isn't a marriage and she's not helping. it takes two to make a marriage and on the break it.


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## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

rmontgomery said:


> First, before you ever went out with your wife or certainly before you ever got married to her, wasn't it a concern of yours that she had cheated on her first husband ?? Or was this even known before you got married ?


I answered this above, but she was up-front about how her last marriage ended prior to our marriage. I thought of it a positive thing at the time and it actually built trust with me. Having found out from someone else would have obviously been a no-go. In hind-sight, it probably should have been a no-go. Live and learn.



rmontgomery said:


> Secondly, great mothers don't cheat nor think about another man for 9 years and cause problems which threatens to tear apart the family fabric.


IMO she's till a great mother. Bad wife... If she was unhappy and wanted a divorce, I could deal with that. However, I refuse to be anyone's *Plan B*. And it sounds like, as previously mentioned, that might be the case. You don't get to stick around while you test the waters! I think I failed to see that in black and white after the 1st EA and especially the 2nd incident.


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## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Breaking up your family is not going to solve all your problems either.
> 
> Can you put find my phone on her phone. Does she leave her phone lying around? Do you have the password?
> 
> Has your sex life changed in the last few years?


Breaking up the family doesn't solve all my problems. But it does remove my biggest problem which is the lack of trust. Will things be easier... No. I've said things are pretty comfortable and we have a LOT going for us. Am I willing to continue living without trust, adequate affection and potentially being seen as her Plan B if something better pops up. No.

I have GPS and access to most her accounts. It's been over a year since I found anything alarming and almost divorced her. Unless she's continuing to communicate at work, she's probably been on the straight and narrow. It's the fact that I still don't trust that's the problem. I might be broken.

No real change in sex life... I don't really have complaints here other than it's our main form of real affection. I mentioned something about this in the posts above. Lack of casual affection is a problem we've tried to work on.


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## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> She likes male attention, and whether or not she's already had an affair makes no difference where this is concerned. She'll continue to hunt for male attention and you'll spend your life either checking up on her or thinking about it until you detach and don't care anymore.


I appreciate the female perspective and I've thought about this too. Some people just have different opinions on what's acceptable when it comes to relationships with people of the opposite sex.

My wife does seem to seek something we're missing in our marriage from these other guys rather than bringing it up and working on it with me. I think that's the biggest problem. I could probably have fixed anything that wasn't working, but we're way past all of that. I was never even given the opportunity.

I don't think i have it in me to detach from the marriage to make it work. Comfortable and Semi-Happy isn't going to work for me and shouldn't be OK with her either.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Todi said:


> After a year of not being able to get over my trust issues, counselling might be an option to help with that. Honestly though, I'm not sure that's what I want. All the counseling in the world and I can't imagine ever fully trust her.


 Please understand that you do not have "trust issues" that you need "to get over". You have an untrustworthy wife that you need to get over.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Chaparral said:


> I can't speak for women obviously but I think about a woman regularly that I haven't seen or spoken to in over thirty years. I have no desire to see or speak with her.


 The key here is not what the OP's wife was thinking over the years, but why she said it to her former affair partner. If you dropped by the office of this woman that you think about regularly, and told her that you have never stopped thinking about her over the years, your intentions could rightfully be questioned.


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## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Todi, I mean this with the best of intentions and hope you don't feel offended in any way.
> 
> IMHO, you have spent the vast majority of your life living around low quality people. Because of this you have not had the pleasure of having a real friend or strong family role models to mold and guide you - which you have already acknowledged. You have a good awareness of the sludge that permeates your life. The bottom line is that you have toxic people all around you.


No offense taken! You speak the truth and have touched on a recent sore spot for me. In the last 2-3 months I've had the few good examples of decent people in my life tarnished in horrible ways. People I thought were good role models turned out to be capable of extremely horrible things. I know we all are capable of horrible things, but that's what makes the good people stand out. They don't give in! I had enough of that when I was growing up and thought I had surrounded myself with better people. When you keep your circle small, even losing a few people is devastating.

One of the saddest parts of this is that the only truly GOOD relationship/success story I have in my life right now is my wife's parents. They are truly amazing and supportive and have been great role models in my life.

I wouldn't even know where to begin trying to find good people to surround myself with at this point. Especially when you thought you were a good judge of character to begin with. =)

Thanks for the reply and your suggestions. I found it helpful.


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## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

TRy said:


> Please understand that you do not have "trust issues" that you need "to get over". You have an untrustworthy wife that you need to get over.


Thanks. I think what I mean is that if my wife is truly trying to R and would be 100% dedicated to the marriage from here on out... And I have no reason to believe that she hasn't done all I've asked over the past year+. Then the problem does become that I can't get over the trust issues that she's created for me. I can't adapt to the new reality of our relationship.

I do feel a bit guilty about that, but don't think I feel responsible. If we divorce, I wont blame myself. I'm sure I wasn't perfect, but was definitely never given the chance to change or even told what the problems might be. And its way too late for that.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You have no inner peace because deep down you know you married a woman who cannot stay true to any man. She's broken, and I think you try to minimize the truth to yourself. You seem to have a hard time accepting the truth when it is squarely in front of you.


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## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> You have no inner peace because deep down you know you married a woman who cannot stay true to any man. She's broken, and I think you try to minimize the truth to yourself. You seem to have a hard time accepting the truth when it is squarely in front of you.


I think you're correct. That's why I felt the need to run this by others. I was expecting more of a mixed reaction, but in both of the places I've posted this... 90% of people seem to be on the same page.

I think anyone in a marriage with two children might have a harder time accepting the truth. Or at least making the decision to divorce without trying to make things work to some degree. I'll never be able to say I didn't try at least!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Todi said:


> I think you're correct. That's why I felt the need to run this by others. I was expecting more of a mixed reaction, but in both of the places I've posted this... 90% of people seem to be on the same page.
> 
> I think anyone in a marriage with two children might have a harder time accepting the truth. Or at least making the decision to divorce without trying to make things work to some degree. I'll never be able to say I didn't try at least!


Your wife is an attention/validation junky. When she gets attention from men, she feels validated as a human being. She will do anything to keep that validation IV flowing, including having sex with these men. You as a single person cannot offer her the amount of validation she craves. You cannot fill that void in her. 

A woman like this will suck you dry of every ounce of self estem and integrity you have. She's like the salt vampire on Star Trek.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

She betrayed your trust twice, after promising you she wouldn't do it again. It also doesn't seem that she has done her part to assure you she is no longer seeing her ex flames. There was no consequences for seeing someone, other than getting caught which you showed her also had no consequences. I don't think she's capable of a commited relationship.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

The logic of TAM is clear, she cannot be trusted and you possible will regret later you did not divorce now.

Since there are kids involved, I would suggest you give the marriage one last chance. By filing for divorce, explaining the situation to her and tell her the only thing between marriage and divorce is what she can do to convince you in the coming months that she changed her life.

I know of one sure way, that is her starting every day with reading in the bible and praying. 10 minutes.

It does not matter if you are already believers, or not. It does not matter if she would want to believe or whether faith is the last thing on earth she would resort to.

I am sure the mere fact of practicing this habit will change her. 

Maybe it would be enough for you.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

My friend life is to short belive me.
You did try everything to help your marriage and what did she do ?
She continued to text him and meet him after you tell her that you are not ok with that.
She has history with that man and she continue to talk and meet him.
She has NO RESPECT FOR YOU my friend.
One more thing,she did sleep with him and it is not just once or twice,this is ongoing afair.

My best advice is,divorce her you will find another woman and you will have once again happy life,trust me.



Sorry for my English,it is not my native language,I am from EU.

Take care my friend


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Todi said:


> I have GPS and access *to most her accounts*. .


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Your wife is an attention/validation junky. When she gets attention from men, she feels validated as a human being. She will do anything to keep that validation IV flowing, including having sex with these men. You as a single person cannot offer her the amount of validation she craves. You cannot fill that void in her.
> 
> A woman like this will suck you dry of every ounce of self estem and integrity you have. She's like the salt vampire on Star Trek.


I agree with this, and it won't get any better the older she gets. She will seek out validation that she's still desirable and will require more as she gets older. It's an underlying self esteem issue on her part and a consequence of her valuing herself by the men she can attract. It's a sad state and one society in general feeds with its message that older women have no value.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies and the advice. I created a new thread in the Considering Divorce forum looking for assistance as I move down that path.

If anyone has been through a divorce, I would definitely appreciate any insight you have in my other thread. Thanks in advance for taking a look.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Todi said:


> I'm definitely not interested in snooping more at this point. If that is the answer to moving forward in my marriage, then the answer is divorce at this point.
> 
> Counselling might be the answer to *fixing my insecurity*. I've thought about IC. Maybe I'll try that for a bit 1st. Talking it through might make a choice more obvious or at least open up other options. I have a good friend who was divorced a while back and always gives good advice. I'll talk it through with him. =)


Ok...This is p*ssing me off. This is your wife's infidelity problem. Not your insecurity problem. If you are not "insecure"(not the right word, but in your own words), then you have being a dumbass problem. It is your brain telling you and warning you that something is wrong and be aware. 


The way to fix the insecurity is fix the trust issues with your wife. The way to fix the trust issues is to have a wife you can trust. What did she do after she got caught ?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Todi said:


> IMO she's till a great mother. Bad wife... If she was unhappy and wanted a divorce, I could deal with that. However, I refuse to be anyone's *Plan B*. And it sounds like, as previously mentioned, that might be the case. You don't get to stick around while you test the waters! I think I failed to see that in black and white after the 1st EA and especially the 2nd incident.


The great mother thing , think about it again...What kind of mother tries to break and destroy the father of their kids ?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Todi said:


> Breaking up the family doesn't solve all my problems. But it does remove my biggest problem which is the lack of trust. Will things be easier... No. I've said things are pretty comfortable and we have a LOT going for us. Am I willing to continue living without trust, adequate affection and potentially being seen as her Plan B if something better pops up. No.
> 
> I have GPS and access to most her accounts. It's been over a year since I found anything alarming and almost divorced her. Unless she's continuing to communicate at work, she's probably been on the straight and narrow. It's the fact that I still don't trust that's the problem.* I might be broken.*
> 
> No real change in sex life... I don't really have complaints here other than it's our main form of real affection. I mentioned something about this in the posts above. Lack of casual affection is a problem we've tried to work on.


2-5 years is usually the average time a relationship recovers from infidelities(according to some studies).. Why are you twisting every problem onto yourself ? I've noticed this repeatedly in your posts.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Todi said:


> Thanks. I think what I mean is that if my wife is truly trying to R and would be 100% dedicated to the marriage from here on out... And I have no reason to believe that she hasn't done all I've asked over the past year+. Then the problem does become that I can't get over the trust issues that she's created for me. I can't adapt to the new reality of our relationship.
> 
> I do feel a bit guilty about that, but don't think I feel responsible. If we divorce, I wont blame myself. I'm sure I wasn't perfect, but was definitely never given the chance to change or even told what the problems might be. And its way too late for that.


So 4th time is different ? She really really changed this time ?

Imagine you doing to her what she did to you. What should feel towards her to do that. Actively planning to delete the texts ?

And how lucky you think you were to catch her the only time she went to visit her ex ? Wasn't she also deleting the texts immediately ? So how do you know that it was only once ? When you snooped, you were feeling unrest for a period of time. Only then did you snoop. You subconscious was warning you something was wrong. It wasn't a one time event. That in itself shows that you are still living with uncovered lies in your marriage.


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## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> Ok...This is p*ssing me off. This is your wife's infidelity problem. Not your insecurity problem.


I can see how my attitude might piss off readers. I'm definitely not trying to excuse what she did or to put all the blame on myself. However, I do believe my wife has tried to R for over a year now. With that being the case, my inability to trust her again is the problem preventing us from being able to move along with full R. I recognize my part in that. Sure, it's ultimately her fault, but I have no evidence that she's hasn't stuck to her word for over 12 months now.

I'm not even mad at her anymore. I'm way past that. Sure, I don't trust and that pisses me off. But that's what the problem is at this point and what I'm most frustrated with. I guess I feel like I should trust at this point with how the last year went, but I don't. Again, not my fault, but my problem.



warlock07 said:


> What did she do after she got caught ?


She was remorseful. She immediately NC'd. I have no evidence she broke her word. We worked on use for a while. Read lots of books, etc. We tried. For that I'm grateful. I just can't deal with being married to someone I don't fully trust.



warlock07 said:


> The great mother thing , think about it again...What kind of mother tries to break and destroy the father of their kids?


Agreed. In that she's a horrible wife and mother. And ultimately, the divorce will be on her shoulders and the effects on the kids will be inevitable. So I agree with you. Hopefully we can continue to co-parent better afterwards.



warlock07 said:


> Why are you twisting every problem onto yourself ? I've noticed this repeatedly in your posts.


I think its mostly because of what I said above. I think she's really tried to R and has done what I asked of her. I know most people are convinced that she's continuing to cheat and has moved onto PA, etc. I'm not convinced. I like to give her the benefit of the doubt without evidence. Gullible... Possibly. But with me not being caught up with a current EA/PA that I know about, and in a relatively comfortable place over-all. I've really tried to focus on why I haven't been able to R and rebuild trust. And that's probably why my tone reflects a lot on myself. I've realized I can't control her or make choices for her, so with my current situation I'm trying to make the best decision for me and my kids. Take control of what I can control.


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## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> Todi said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks. I think what I mean is that if my wife is truly trying to R and would be 100% dedicated to the marriage from here on out... And I have no reason to believe that she hasn't done all I've asked over the past year+. Then the problem does become that I can't get over the trust issues that she's created for me. I can't adapt to the new reality of our relationship.
> ...


Yes. Which is why I've moved over to the considering divorce forum. I realize my problem isn't with coping or continuing to feel like I should be able to cope. The problem is that our marriage is broken. That is a problem I think I do know the answer to.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> 2-5 years is usually the average time a relationship recovers from infidelities(according to some studies).. Why are you twisting every problem onto yourself ? I've noticed this repeatedly in your posts.


I am quoting myself. 2-5 years. 1 year is not long enough.


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## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> I am quoting myself. 2-5 years. 1 year is not long enough.


2-5 years is a LONG time. And it's has been over 2 years since the initial EA. 1 year since the reconnecting with the ex she cheated with in her 1st marriage. I remember telling myself that I would give it another year almost exactly a year ago today... =/


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

My friend,like I said before you will be much more happy with other woman.You tried everything but ask youself where will you stand in another 5-10 years? Do you want to always check on her,what is she doing,with whom is she texting,eating,going out?

Most people took marriage for granted,people lose respect for each other and that is the bigest problem.
She has no respect for you,literally you begged her and she goes behind you back with her boyfriend to have some fun.

Sure sex is good,but there is so much better things in marriage then sex.You want someone who you can TRUST,tell her/him your bigest problems,fears.
You want them to help you when you need them,and that is what you need,but she is not there,she was in her other world with perfect boyfriend.

I hope we could help you my friend,but it is all up to you.
You are still young and life is to,to short


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