# Wife wants divorce after finding out I watch porn



## SteelyPhil (Jun 9, 2016)

The other night my wife openly asked me after we were intimate if I watch porn. She was joking around with me and smiling saying things like "come on, I know you do it", "how do you like to get off", "tell me so I know", etc. I was hesitant to answer as in the past she's gotten upset talking about porn. Well I told her the truth, I said yes I do when we are arguing, when she doesn't want to have sex, when we are away from each other and that I've done it many times over the years. She then lost it and started yelling and screaming at me. It didn't matter that I told her it its just to get off and that men are visual by nature or that its not affecting us in the bedroom as I always want her (my sex drive is a lot higher then her own).

The arguing got so bad she threw a plate at a wall in our house which broke the plate and damaged the wall. She called me nearly every name in the book and at one point I was just sitting there taking it and asking her not to yell anymore. She went so far to say things like "well I'm going to start watching porn and see men that look better then you, have bigger ****s then you and are more fit then you". That hurt. Later she threw her wedding and engagement ring on the floor. I've seen this extremely angry side of her before and it scares me.

Towards the end of the argument she said she wants a divorce, that she hopes I rot in hell, that I repulse her, and other hurtful things. My wife and I don't have kids, yet so maybe a divorce would be best.

Is my wife taking her anger to far? I don't know what to do and feel trapped.

Thank you


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

It depends, has she told you concerns before about not liking porn and whether it is a deal breaker for her.

Some women just don't like for their men to watch any type of porn at all, and some like me could care less a man could be doing worse things.

Then there are those addicted to it and it ruins sex, because they are getting off on porn so much that can't get it up for sex.

If you knew porn bothered her, and watched it anyway, then in her eyes you broke trust and so no she did not go to far. There are women that will divorce over their men watching porn, because they are that bothered by it.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

SteelyPhil said:


> She went so far to say things like "well I'm going to start watching porn and see men that look better then you, have bigger ****s then you and are more fit then you".* That hurt. *




Why did it hurt? Women are visual too, you know.

First of all, yes, throwing plates against the wall and telling you to rot in hell is an overreaction. Your wife has poor anger management skills.

And it wasn't right of her to elicit a confidence; then use it against you in a knock-down, drag-out fight.


But yes having her husband using porn can hurt a woman to the core. Ask me how I know (j/k).

If she doesn't have moral or religious objections to pornography; then she should start watching it herself when you aren't available to her. That's probably a good idea. Why don't you sanction that suggestion.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Why did it hurt? Women are visual too, you know.
> 
> First of all, yes, throwing plates against the wall and telling you to rot in hell is an overreaction. Your wife has poor anger management skills.
> 
> ...


I agree. Why would it bother you if she watches fitter men or bigger c0cks if it's just to get off?


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## SteelyPhil (Jun 9, 2016)

It wouldn't bother me if she did watch porn, heck I've told her to as long as we are still intimate. What bothered me is that she got so upset and had to go into detail just for the purpose of being hurtful of why she would watch it. I would never yell at her and say "I love watching women with bigger boobs then you" or something along those lines, that is something I would never think to say to my spouse. She went there though.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

SteelyPhil said:


> It wouldn't bother me if she did watch porn, heck I've told her to as long as we are still intimate. What bothered me is that she got so upset and had to go into detail just for the purpose of being hurtful of why she would watch it.* I would never yell at her and say "I love watching women with bigger boobs then you" or something along those lines,* that is something I would never think to say to my spouse. She went there though.




But don't you like watching women with bigger boobs than her?

That's part of the appeal of watching porn. She knows that. That's what hurts.

I'd reassure her again, that you are okay with her watching whatever type of porn she wants; as long as it doesn't reduce the amount of sex she has with you.

And it's not okay for her to be physically destructive or verbally abusive. You need to establish boundaries there.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Her seemingly tricking you into telling the truth reminds me of a male poster here who did the same to get his wife to confess to her affair. He then got mad, too. And now she is apparently expected to make it up to him for the rest of her life. 

I am not saying it is right you use porn. It obviously hurts your wife. And you seemed to be hurt by the thought of her using it, too. So you should understand where she is coming from.

But since you two do not have kids, I think parting ways merits serious consideration. Sorry to be blunt, but . . . Do you really want to stay with someone you feel scared of and trapped by? Do you want to deal with her explosive anger?

If it is worth it to you, good enough. But if there is going to be a divorce, then before kids, imo, is the easiest time.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SteelyPhil said:


> It wouldn't bother me if she did watch porn, heck I've told her to as long as we are still intimate. What bothered me is that she got so upset and had to go into detail just for the purpose of being hurtful of why she would watch it. I would never yell at her and say "I love watching women with bigger boobs then you" or something along those lines, that is something I would never think to say to my spouse. She went there though.


I think she wanted you to feel her pain. She tried to think of something that would hurt you the way she felt hurt.


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## SteelyPhil (Jun 9, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> But don't you like watching women with bigger boobs than her?
> 
> That's part of the appeal of watching porn. She knows that. That's what hurts.
> 
> ...


I've tried to do that and she has told me she doesn't want to watch porn as I'm enough for her, that is when I hear "I guess I'm just not enough for you".

The verbal and the few times of physical destructive abuse has been going on for years. It's corroded our marriage and at times is hard to overlook when trying to improve.

It seems like almost anytime my wife and I see an attractive women on say TV, a billboard, or an ad at a store she has to say "there ya go". Sometimes she's playing around with me, other times she starts to kick off this jealous side of her. My wife does have low self esteem about herself and no matter how much I tell her she looks beautiful it doesn't matter. She's admitted she's overweight and that she wants to get healthy again but then never takes any action. I end up getting blamed for her weight with the usual "well, if I was happier in our marriage I would want to lose weight", it never fails.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SteelyPhil said:


> I've tried to do that and she has told me she doesn't want to watch porn as I'm enough for her, that is when I hear "I guess I'm just not enough for you".
> 
> The verbal and the few times of physical destructive abuse has been going on for years. It's corroded our marriage and at times is hard to overlook when trying to improve.
> 
> It seems like almost anytime my wife and I see an attractive women on say TV, a billboard, or an ad at a store she has to say "there ya go". Sometimes she's playing around with me, other times she starts to kick off this jealous side of her. My wife does have low self esteem about herself and no matter how much I tell her she looks beautiful it doesn't matter. She's admitted she's overweight and that she wants to get healthy again but then never takes any action. I end up getting blamed for her weight with the usual "well, if I was happier in our marriage I would want to lose weight", it never fails.


It sounds like she wants you to take responsibility for her feelings. That usually does not work.

You do understand that your looking at porn is not likely helping her self esteem, though, right?


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## SteelyPhil (Jun 9, 2016)

jld said:


> Her seemingly tricking you into telling the truth reminds me of a male poster here who did the same to get his wife to confess to her affair. He then got mad, too. And now she is apparently expected to make it up to him for the rest of her life.
> 
> I am not saying it is right you use porn. It obviously hurts your wife. And you seemed to be hurt by the thought of her using it, too. So you should understand where she is coming from.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the reply, those are good points. I've thought too about how divorce would be easier without us currently having any kids. At times we seem compatible and at others times I would say no way. 

Whenever my wife and I have ever talked about divorce I think we both just can't face the idea of us failing each other and our families. However, I know its not healthy to keep going on this way with these types of arguments.

We've talked about having kids but it seems more of a "this is the next step" thought then something I really want to do. I know that having kids right now wouldn't be a good idea as we would need to be happier with each other before starting a family.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

The OP stated that he watches porn when his wife is not in the mood or other factors. So if she was watching bigger ****s it would seem strange since she apparently has this lower sex drive. Watching porn but not having sex with OP? Hmph! Dunno how that makes sense. I could tell why he would be hurt.

Personally, I am not for the porn thing but that’s just my belief not yours. Can’t you jack off to nude pics of your wife or something, OP. I know she would be flattered.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SteelyPhil said:


> Thank you for the reply, those are good points. I've thought too about how divorce would be easier without us currently having any kids. At times we seem compatible and at others times I would say no way.
> 
> Whenever my wife and I have ever talked about divorce I think we both just can't face the idea of us failing each other and our families. However, I know its not healthy to keep going on this way with these types of arguments.
> 
> We've talked about having kids but it seems more of a "this is the next step" thought then something I really want to do. *I know that having kids right now wouldn't be a good idea as we would need to be happier with each other before starting a family*.


Totally, totally, totally agree with the bolded.

If you feel trapped right now, can you imagine how much *more* trapped you would feel if you had children with her?


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## SteelyPhil (Jun 9, 2016)

jld said:


> It sounds like she wants you to take responsibility for her feelings. That usually does not work.
> 
> You do understand that your looking at porn is not likely helping her self esteem, though, right?


Absolutely. I can see how it can make her feel bad. The other night I just tried to be more honest with her. I told her I've been looking porn since I was a teenager, that it had been going on for years including when we met, not a lot but from time to time. That seemed to make things worse but part of me felt that I needed to be more honest with her (versus hiding it) to see if things can work out between us.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

Moral of the story: Never ask questions, you don't want answered. I think you need to have a serious discussion. If you can't have an honest discussion, then it is not much of a relationship. She baited you into the discussion, which is much more disturbing to we than what you did. I understand why she may be bothered and has every right to make it an issue, besides the human mind can create any scene you want without video footage. Still I would not beg or plead, but instead consult with an attorney on an uncontested divorce. Then I would set aside a time to talk and you two need to decide if you are going to more forward together or throw in the towel.


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

SteelyPhil said:


> The other night my wife openly asked me after we were intimate if I watch porn. She was joking around with me and smiling saying things like "come on, I know you do it", "how do you like to get off", "tell me so I know", etc. I was hesitant to answer as in the past she's gotten upset talking about porn. Well I told her the truth, I said yes I do when we are arguing, when she doesn't want to have sex, when we are away from each other and that I've done it many times over the years. She then lost it and started yelling and screaming at me. It didn't matter that I told her it its just to get off and that men are visual by nature or that its not affecting us in the bedroom as I always want her (my sex drive is a lot higher then her own).
> 
> The arguing got so bad she threw a plate at a wall in our house which broke the plate and damaged the wall. She called me nearly every name in the book and at one point I was just sitting there taking it and asking her not to yell anymore. She went so far to say things like "well I'm going to start watching porn and see men that look better then you, have bigger ****s then you and are more fit then you". That hurt. Later she threw her wedding and engagement ring on the floor. I've seen this extremely angry side of her before and it scares me.
> 
> ...


When some folks have that kind of anger, it is usually due to a huge residue of inner, bottled up, repressed, old angry feelings/memories from long ago, perhaps some painful, enraging childhood events usually connected to bad parenting so, when triggered, the angry person has to DUMP their bottled up anger all over whoever or whatever is handy like a spouse, offspring, sibling, friend, co-worker, stranger, etc. This all happens automatically since the angry person does not know or does not WANT TO KNOW who or what their bottled up anger truly belongs to (perhaps one or both parents?) so the angry one just blasts away at whoever or whatever is the nearest or SAFEST to hit with their repressed feelings of RAGE. 
I have no idea who or what your wife is really angry at or with, most likely a parent, but she is unwittingly dumping her RAGE onto you because that kind of powerful energy HAS TO GO somewhere and the angry person doesn't care where so long as it pours out of her - like draining a boil or abscess. 
If she did a little therapy or counseling, it might come out that her bottled up, explosive RAGE belongs to someone from her past - a parent, in-law or neighbor - who deeply hurt her and she (like me) somehow repressed and bottled up all that angry energy which is now BURSTING OUT all over you, whenever it's triggered.
In therapy, I learned who I was bitterly angry with - my parents - and why - they were both abusive and negligent! As soon as I faced this truth and began to send my anger to the correct targets - mom & dad - I stopped punishing the wrong targets - my wife, siblings, pets, friends, co-workers, strangers, etc. Once the energy of all that deeply repressed RAGE started moving in the *correct direction* - at my parents - I felt instant relief and began telling my parents off in journals, into a tape recorder and finally directly to my one still living parent, my mom. The more I drained off that bottled up RAGEFUL energy onto the CORRECT TARGET, the better I felt and the less triggered I became over time.
It might take you GF going into therapy, counseling or some kind of support group (I went into ACoA) to get to the bottom of her deep and explosive RAGE and very few folks will ever bother so long as they believe they can CONTROL life and others with their ANGER. 
I suppose you could suggest some kind of counseling or therapy but, if she is going to solve everything by leaving you, it may be hopeless. 
It's too bad when you consider how good and happy she COULD BE by discovering how to deal with her bottled up RAGE and vent it out of her system onto the CORRECT TARGETS and then begin living a happier life WITHOUT IT.
Have her read this response.
good luck


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## Voltaire2013 (Sep 22, 2013)

So yeah, it's not really about the pr0n, though that may be a part of the much bigger picture. There is a lot more at play here and her 'trick' to get you to tell the truth smells like Denmark. 

https://youtu.be/-4EDhdAHrOg

Tell us more about your relationship. Is there a lot of 'you always/you never' statements from her?

Cheers,
V(13)


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## SteelyPhil (Jun 9, 2016)

jld said:


> Totally, totally, totally agree with the bolded.
> 
> If you feel trapped right now, can you imagine how much *more* trapped you would feel if you had children with her?


Yeah, that wouldn't be good at all, agree. 

Right now I still feel like I can get out if I need to. For me I honestly feel afraid of asking for a divorce. I fear the shame from my family, her family and losing our dog that I know she would take with her. So instead we keep going on day after but I know at some point things either need to actually improve or we need to go our separate ways.


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## 23cm (Dec 3, 2016)

Run Forrest run.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SteelyPhil said:


> Yeah, that wouldn't be good at all, agree.
> 
> Right now I still feel like I can get out if I need to. For me I honestly feel afraid of asking for a divorce. I fear the shame from my family, her family and losing our dog that I know she would take with her. So instead we keep going on day after but I know at some point things either need to actually improve or we need to go our separate ways.


Please do not stay out of fear. Phil, that is *so* unhealthy. For both of you.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SteelyPhil said:


> Absolutely. I can see how it can make her feel bad. The other night I just tried to be more honest with her. I told her I've been looking porn since I was a teenager, that it had been going on for years including when we met, not a lot but from time to time. That seemed to make things worse but part of me felt that I needed to be more honest with her (versus hiding it) to see if things can work out between us.


You absolutely have to be honest with her. Gut level honest. Even if it hurts her.

And she has to be able to hear it, without getting violent.

And you obviously have to be able to do the same for her.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Have you suggested to her that the two of you go for marriage counseling?


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## SteelyPhil (Jun 9, 2016)

Voltaire2013 said:


> So yeah, it's not really about the pr0n, though that may be a part of the much bigger picture. There is a lot more at play here and her 'trick' to get you to tell the truth smells like Denmark.
> 
> https://youtu.be/-4EDhdAHrOg
> 
> ...


Lol @ that video, I can relate to it.

I'll be honest, my wife and I don't have a good marriage. We have been married for 5 years and have been arguing for the past 4. If someone asked me if my wife is my soulmate I would say "no". Recently I've been thinking more and more about being single again and one day meeting someone else because of the arguments similar to the one I described at the start of the thread. We've had so many arguments and have said so many hurtful things to each other that it has corroded my image of her (she has said the same thing more or less).

There are many "you never care about me", "you only care about yourself", "you are a typical man", etc type comments. I end up feeling like I never do anything right when I hear her say those things. Then I go off listing all of the things I do for us, for her, her family, our house, how just the other night I said she looked beautiful, etc. I feel exhausted having to make and recite these lists.


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

SteelyPhil said:


> It wouldn't bother me if she did watch porn, heck I've told her to as long as we are still intimate. What bothered me is that she got so upset and had to go into detail just for the purpose of being hurtful of why she would watch it. I would never yell at her and say "I love watching women with bigger boobs then you" or something along those lines, that is something I would never think to say to my spouse. She went there though.


Because bottled up, unresolved old anger and HUMILIATION will force an angry person to try to hurt others exactly the same as how the angry one was hurt so long ago so she is FORCED to be as cruel and viscous as possible by the hateful RAGE that is bottle up inside of her. If she only recognized who really deserves her anger, hate and RAGE, she'd most likely be less mean to you and begin directing her RAGE back to those who truly deserve it - perhaps her own parents or some in-law, etc. 
Right now, she is unwittingly PUNISHING the wrong target (you) with her explosive, bitter and unhealed, old painful feelings.
She needs THERAPY!!!! :surprise:


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

VFW said:


> Moral of the story: Never ask questions, you don't want answered. I think you need to have a serious discussion. If you can't have an honest discussion, then it is not much of a relationship. *She baited you into the discussion, which is much more disturbing to we than what you did.* I understand why she may be bothered and has every right to make it an issue, besides the human mind can create any scene you want without video footage. Still I would not beg or plead, but instead consult with an attorney on an uncontested divorce. Then I would set aside a time to talk and you two need to decide if you are going to more forward together or throw in the towel.


I think the bolded is very underhanded, too. It certainly does not build trust in the relationship.

Transparency is what builds trust.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SteelyPhil said:


> Lol @ that video, I can relate to it.
> 
> I'll be honest, my wife and I don't have a good marriage. We have been married for 5 years and have been arguing for the past 4. If someone asked me if my wife is my soulmate I would say "no". Recently I've been thinking more and more about being single again and one day meeting someone else because of the arguments similar to the one I described at the start of the thread. We've had so many arguments and have said so many hurtful things to each other that is corroded my image of her (she has said the same thing more or less).
> 
> There are many "you never care about me", "you only care about yourself", "you are a typical man", etc type comments. Then I go off listing all of the things I do for us, for her, her family, our house, etc. I feel exhausted having to make and recite these lists.


What is all of this telling you, Phil?

If you were telling your best friend all this, what would he tell you?


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

SteelyPhil said:


> I've tried to do that and she has told me she doesn't want to watch porn as I'm enough for her, that is when I hear "I guess I'm just not enough for you".
> 
> The verbal and the few times of physical destructive abuse has been going on for years. It's corroded our marriage and at times is hard to overlook when trying to improve.
> 
> It seems like almost anytime my wife and I see an attractive women on say TV, a billboard, or an ad at a store she has to say "there ya go". Sometimes she's playing around with me, other times she starts to kick off this jealous side of her. My wife does have low self esteem about herself and no matter how much I tell her she looks beautiful it doesn't matter. She's admitted she's overweight and that she wants to get healthy again but then never takes any action. I end up getting blamed for her weight with the usual "well, if I was happier in our marriage I would want to lose weight", it never fails.


Your wife has two problems:
1. She is very insecure and jealous most likely due to some kind of emotional damages from early childhood and...
2. Your bad behavior with Porn.

Of the two, the easiest and quickest one for her to fix is her own insecurity and jealousy doing some self esteem and self respect work and/or getting into some kind of therapy to deal with her early childhood emotional damages. These things can often get better or even resolves rather quickly.
Then, after she has regained a much higher, healthier sense of her own worth and value, she will be in a better position to confront you about Porn - if it even matters any longer.
Another benefit of her (and maybe you as well) getting into therapy or building up her self esteem is that you might now find her so attractive and exciting that you will no longer turn to Porn for some thrills and adventure. But even if you do watch A LITTLE BIT OF PORN, it will not damage her sense of self worth although it is still a kind of betrayal and cheating, IMO so both of you can and will find a Solution to that problem if it's still a problem.
You might even find that, after your wife FIXES her emotional issues, you will no longer be interested in porn nor will you want to hurt her feelings by drooling over it and being a cheater! 
OR... you might both discover that some porn style can spice up and make your sex life a little more interesting and exciting - as we did - when I used some "new" Porn techniques on my late wife and she LOVED IT!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

jimrich said:


> Your wife has two problems:
> 1. She is very insecure and jealous most likely due to some kind of emotional damages from early childhood and...
> 2. Your bad behavior with Porn.
> 
> ...


If she can get healthier, she may decide that *she* wants a divorce.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

Phil,


Do you think if your wife was thin and in shape [by her standards], she wouldn't have this reaction to you watching porn?


Her inappropriate acting out is different,perhaps, than her emotional pain because you use pornography.

She's not alone, or crazy by being hurt by pornography. But the way she is expressing it to you, is not okay---violence, verbal attacks.

Why Does Porn Feel Like Betrayal? 3 Reasons Why



> The feelings that porn can trigger, and those that arise out of the conflict between women and men over it, are varied, but common. Women feeling hurt, angry, devastated, sick, disgusted, and outraged is normal; feeling unattractive, inadequate, not good enough, less than, even ugly is not uncommon; feeling insecure and uncertain, having doubts, suspicions, and having lot's of unanswered questions, and that you can't trust anymore is also pretty typical. But feeling that porn is a betrayal is one of the most confusing feelings of them all.




Just Can?t Get Over It (Anonymous)




> I still hate my body though and I don’t think I’ll ever learn to love it. I’m trying my hardest though! I just want the porn to go away and have a normal relationship without all the worry and hurt and feel wanted and loved!




These are a couple of examples of how women can feel. If you're really interested, Google "husband watching porn makes me feel ugly", or something like that.


DON'T have kids yet.


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## SteelyPhil (Jun 9, 2016)

jld said:


> What is all of this telling you, Phil?
> 
> If you were telling your best friend all this, what would he tell you?


I bet my friends would tell me to get out while I still can. I've talked to one close friend before about my marital problems. He suggested filing for a divorce and also said that staying in a marriage with my wife is also not fair to her as she may want children down the road and should have them with someone she's more compatible with.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SteelyPhil said:


> I bet my friends would tell me to get out while I still can. I've talked to one close friend before about my marital problems. He suggested filing for a divorce and also said that staying in a marriage with my wife is also not fair to her as she may want children down the road and should have them with someone she's more compatible with.


You have a true friend there, Phil. Please listen to him.


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

SteelyPhil said:


> Absolutely. I can see how it can make her feel bad. The other night I just tried to be more honest with her. I told her I've been looking porn since I was a teenager, that it had been going on for years including when we met, not a lot but from time to time. That seemed to make things worse but part of me felt that I needed to be more honest with her (versus hiding it) to see if things can work out between us.


IMO, being HONEST is extremely important in a healthy relationship BUT... so long as your wife is DRIVEN by repressed, unhealed old painful feelings, being truly honest is NOT POSSIBLE for her so long as her need to be defensive and LASH OUT is in control of her behavior. 
The bottled up RAGE doesn't give a damn about honesty, truth, love, respect, kindness, happiness or anything other than finding RELEASE. 
She will need to learn how to vent or release this lake of bottled up RAGE in the safest way possible or she will simply go on and on occasionally blowing up at anyone or anything that triggers her!


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

SteelyPhil said:


> Lol @ that video, I can relate to it.
> 
> I'll be honest, my wife and I don't have a good marriage. We have been married for 5 years and have been arguing for the past 4. If someone asked me if my wife is my soulmate I would say "no". *Recently I've been thinking more and more about being single again and one day meeting someone else* because of the arguments similar to the one I described at the start of the thread. We've had so many arguments and have said so many hurtful things to each other that it has corroded my image of her (she has said the same thing more or less).
> 
> There are many "you never care about me", "you only care about yourself", "you are a typical man", etc type comments. I end up feeling like I never do anything right when I hear her say those things. Then I go off listing all of the things I do for us, for her, her family, our house, how just the other night I said she looked beautiful, etc. I feel exhausted having to make and recite these lists.


What would make you think you would be successful with another woman? 

Your wife has issues, but you also have challenges. Why do you need porn?

Please do not think that a divorce will fix your issues. If you do not address your problems, you are likely to continue this pattern.

Instead, try to accept your shortcomings and let your wife be the witness of your improvements. Showing her you are trying to get better may prompt her to do the same. And if she decides to not change, you would be in a better place for the next relationship.


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

SteelyPhil said:


> Yeah, that wouldn't be good at all, agree.
> 
> Right now I still feel like I can get out if I need to. For me I honestly feel afraid of asking for a divorce. I fear the shame from my family, her family and losing our dog that I know she would take with her. So instead we keep going on day after but I know at some point things either need to actually improve or we need to go our separate ways.


Have either of you considered COUNSELING?


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## SteelyPhil (Jun 9, 2016)

jimrich said:


> Have either of you considered COUNSELING?


We haven't gone to marriage counseling yet but I would consider it. She's suggested it in the past before as well. I'm just not sure how to even suggest that, or if I want to, after she said she wants a divorce and hopes that I rot in hell.


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

Get out now while you can. Her violence and anger is over the top and it will only get worse.


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## SteelyPhil (Jun 9, 2016)

jimrich said:


> IMO, being HONEST is extremely important in a healthy relationship BUT... so long as your wife is DRIVEN by repressed, unhealed old painful feelings, being truly honest is NOT POSSIBLE for her so long as her need to be defensive and LASH OUT is in control of her behavior.
> The bottled up RAGE doesn't give a damn about honesty, truth, love, respect, kindness, happiness or anything other than finding RELEASE.
> She will need to learn how to vent or release this lake of bottled up RAGE in the safest way possible or she will simply go on and on occasionally blowing up at anyone or anything that triggers her!


I don't feel I can be completely honest with her as I'm fearful of how she will act in response, like this one. Another example is religion. My wife and her family are more religious then myself and my side of the family. She's gotten very upset before when I've talked about science topics such as evolution and even said that a lot of science based shows and people of science are there just to disprove God. I just sat there puzzled and upset that I can't have a deep conversation about religion, God, science, etc without her getting upset. I'm wasn't trying to disprove or prove one thing or another, I just wanted to talk about the topics and have a good conversation (like I can with some friends). Now I just avoid the topic completely.


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

SteelyPhil said:


> Lol @ that video, I can relate to it.
> 
> I'll be honest, my wife and I don't have a good marriage. We have been married for 5 years and have been arguing for the past 4. If someone asked me if my wife is my soulmate I would say "no". Recently I've been thinking more and more about being single again and one day meeting someone else because of the arguments similar to the one I described at the start of the thread. We've had so many arguments and have said so many hurtful things to each other that it has corroded my image of her (she has said the same thing more or less).
> 
> There are many "you never care about me", "you only care about yourself", "you are a typical man", etc type comments. I end up feeling like I never do anything right when I hear her say those things. Then I go off listing all of the things I do for us, for her, her family, our house, how just the other night I said she looked beautiful, etc. I feel exhausted having to make and recite these lists.


When you realize that much of the mean and abusive things she says to you are actually meant for someone from her past, it might help you to either respond kinder or NOT AT ALL. Just knowing that you are not the one she is actually angry with might take some of the pressure off of you to feel guilty or resentful about what she is saying - which actually belongs to some other person - her parents or whoever?
When my late wife began say mean things to me just before she crossed over and was so sick, I knew those mean things were meant for her parents and not me so I did not take it personally although I would have begun telling her to send that sh*t back where it belongs - TO HER MOM AND DAD! It's helpful to understand why some folks are mean to others all because they have bottled up bad feelings for someone else entirely and are now sending those bottled up, painful feeling to the WRONG person or target.
If both of you say mean things to each other, there's a chance that BOTH of you are carrying deep, unhealed emotional wounds from early childhood or somewhere and BOTH of you might need to get into therapy to heal those hidden, repressed and damaged feelings/memories.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SteelyPhil said:


> We haven't gone to marriage counseling yet but I would consider it. She's suggested it in the past before as well. I'm just not sure how to even suggest that, or if I want to, after she said she wants a divorce and hopes that I rot in hell.


That is understandable. You have to decide if you even want to try to repair things, or if it might be best for both of you to just move on.


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

SteelyPhil said:


> We haven't gone to marriage counseling yet but I would consider it. She's suggested it in the past before as well. I'm just not sure how to even suggest that, or if I want to, after she said she wants a divorce and hopes that I rot in hell.


One time I went whining to a friend about my bad marriage, which was just like yours, and he said we need counseling to which I responded, "She'd never do that!" so my fried said, "Go alone for your self!", which stunned me as I believed couples HAVE TO be in counseling together. 
Not long after that, things got so bad that I finally went for help and ended up in 12 step support groups which pretty much fixed my emotional issues but also allowed me to LEAVE my then wife as she "HAD NO PROBLEM!" (She had LOTS OF PROBLEMS - starting with drinking!!!)


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Such an over the top violent response tells me there's more wrong with the marriage. To trick you and then flip out is not acceptable. With your marriage being so-so for the past 4 years and no kids to worry about, I would bounce. 

Having to resort to porn when you're a young childless couple is not worth it. Can you imagine how little sex you'll get when there are kids involved. 

Just a theory but she may be involved with someone and is just trying to use this as the reason she's breaking up so she can be the good gal. Either way. I would file.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

SteelyPhil said:


> Another example is religion*. My wife and her family are more religious then myself and my side of the family.* She's gotten very upset before when I've talked about science topics such as evolution and even said that a lot of science based shows and people of science are there just to disprove God. I just sat there puzzled and upset that I can't have a deep conversation about religion, God, science, etc without her getting upset. I'm wasn't trying to disprove or prove one thing or another, I just wanted to talk about the topics and have a good conversation (like I can with some friends). Now I just avoid the topic completely.




Religious {Christian, for sure} people, can't watch pornography, according to the tenets of their faith. They wouldn't want to be married to a person that watches it either.

The most famous Christian scripture that speaks about this is:



> You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.


Matthew 5:27-29


I know a lot [most??] Christians watch pornography anyway----isn't that interesting?----- but they're definitely not supposed to.

So, yeah, the religion thing might be causing your wife a lot of stress over this subject.....maybe?


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

SteelyPhil said:


> I don't feel I can be completely honest with her as I'm fearful of how she will act in response, like this one. Folks carrying hidden RAGE are like land mines that explode when someone accidentally steps on them. They live in permanent DEFENSE mode! Another example is religion. My wife and her family are more religious then myself and my side of the family. She's gotten very upset before when I've talked about science topics such as evolution and even said that a lot of science based shows and people of science are there just to disprove God. I just sat there puzzled and upset that I can't have a deep conversation about religion, God, science, etc without her getting upset. I'm wasn't trying to disprove or prove one thing or another, I just wanted to talk about the topics and have a good conversation (like I can with some friends). Now I just avoid the topic completely.


I had the very same kind of confrontive, hostile and abusive relationship with my 1st wife all because she, just like me, had a huge array of bottled up, painful feelings from her rocky past, so she was almost always in DEFENSIVE/OFFENSIVE emotional mode and we could not talk about ANYTHING without her getting "upset" and becoming personally abusive with me - both verbally and physically - which always worked for her!!! 
I did not realize what bottled up anger can do until I got into therapy and began to confront my own bottled up, dangerous RAGE so the repressed stuff in others is rather obvious to me now - especially in a mate or close family member, like my late wifes two grown girls.


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## SteelyPhil (Jun 9, 2016)

jld said:


> You absolutely have to be honest with her. Gut level honest. Even if it hurts her.
> 
> And she has to be able to hear it, without getting violent.
> 
> And you obviously have to be able to do the same for her.


We talked a bit more after the initial argument. She asked me how many times I've watched porn and I said "I don't know, probably dozens, if not hundreds of times". I was met with a very loud "F**k you!"...After that I shutdown again as she just kept beating me down with her words, at that point I don't even want to argue.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Whether you decide to stay or divorce; remember that your family, her family and the dog aren't married to her. You took the vows so you take the responsibility for your own life. Don't shift the blame to families or the dog.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

SteelyPhil said:


> We talked a bit more after the initial argument. She asked me how many times I've watched porn and I said "I don't know, probably dozens, if not hundreds of times". I was met with a very loud "F**k you!"...After that I shutdown again as she just kept beating me down with her words, at that point I don't even want to argue.




Does the idea of being with a woman who was totally cool with porn; both you and her watching it together and separately, sound good?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

She sounds nuts, you would do well to divorce her.


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

SteelyPhil said:


> ..After that I shutdown again as she just kept beating me down with her words, at that point I don't even want to argue.


bottle up, unhealed old RAGE can easily become a tool to CONTROL others such as what is happening to you here.
I'd study boundary setting as a temporary defense until she either gets some help or LEAVES.


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## SteelyPhil (Jun 9, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Does the idea of being with a woman who was totally cool with porn; both you and her watching it together and separately, sound good?


That sounds amazing but does such a woman exist? lol. My wife has told me repeatedly in arguments over the years "Good luck finding someone that will put up with your BS" and now its "Women are not fine with their husbands watching porn, I don't care what you say". She even went as far as to say "If we get a divorce I'm telling your family it's because you watch porn and can't stop", just wow.


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

SteelyPhil said:


> That sounds amazing but does such a woman exist? lol.
> There might be such a woman BUT are you the right man for her? There is a possibility that your own unresolved, inner "stuff" would make such a woman just as mean to you as your current woman is being so, in the end, you MIGHT have to find a way to deal with whatever it is in you that DRIVES your mates to abuse you! I'd seriously consider some kind of counseling or therapy for BOTH of you rather than just pack up and leave only to find your self in yet another ABUSIVE union.
> 
> My wife has told me repeatedly in arguments over the years "Good luck finding someone that will put up with your BS" and now its "Women are not fine with their husbands watching porn, I don't care what you say". She even went as far as to say "If we get a divorce I'm telling your family it's because you watch porn and can't stop", just wow. Would her telling your family be a problem for you? Would your family come down on you for watching porn?


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

I keep talking therapy while most other say "get out" so it might be a matter of just tossing a coin and then go from there. good luck either way......


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

SteelyPhil said:


> That seemed to make things worse but part of me *felt that I needed to be more honest with her (versus hiding it)* to see if things can work out between us.


I have said this before.

The truth hurts. Honesty is not always the best policy.

Some people cannot handle the truth.

OK, how did speaking the truth work out.

I absolutely hate to tell lies. But I am no fool. Sometimes just keeping silent when asked a loaded question seems the best way to handle TNT. Tri-Nitro-"Tell-no-Lady".

She set you up for the fall. And you put the noose around your neck and stepped into the open trap-door.

She used this incident to spring the divorce threat on you. Had you not admitted to anything, she would find something else to cut you off at the knees. You have a potential walk away wife on your hands.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SteelyPhil said:


> I don't feel I can be completely honest with her as I'm fearful of how she will act in response, like this one. Another example is religion. My wife and her family are more religious then myself and my side of the family. She's gotten very upset before when I've talked about science topics such as evolution and even said that a lot of science based shows and people of science are there just to disprove God. I just sat there puzzled and upset that I can't have a deep conversation about religion, God, science, etc without her getting upset. I'm wasn't trying to disprove or prove one thing or another, I just wanted to talk about the topics and have a good conversation (like I can with some friends). Now I just avoid the topic completely.


 Do you want to stay with someone you cannot have an open, honest, deep conversation with? Will you be able to grow with someone like that?


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

SteelyPhil said:


> That sounds amazing but does such a woman exist? lol. My wife has told me repeatedly in arguments over the years "Good luck finding someone that will put up with your BS" and now its "Women are not fine with their husbands watching porn, I don't care what you say". *She even went as far as to say "If we get a divorce I'm telling your family it's because you watch porn and can't stop"*, just wow.


Could there be something going on that could be revealed and she blowing up over this as a cover? A quick check should be done to ensure that she's not rushing the break up so she can run off to someone else and be blameless.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

SteelyPhil said:


> That sounds amazing but does such a woman exist? lol. My wife has told me repeatedly in arguments over the years "Good luck finding someone that will put up with your BS" and now its "Women are not fine with their husbands watching porn, I don't care what you say". She even went as far as to say "If we get a divorce I'm telling your family it's because you watch porn and can't stop", just wow.


You should respond with good luck finding a man who would put up with your *****iness and entrapment...god forbid your honest.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

In my opinion you have two problems to try and contend with:

*A)* She was completely unaware you have watched porn and she feels like you violated her trust by HIDING this behavior from her. Breaking someone's trust and hiding things is likely why this information elicited such a strong reaction out of her. From all my research on the topic, women get way more freaking upset about their spouse hiding porn than they do about the actual porn.

*B)* Her high self confidence in the relationship was just destroyed. She likely prided herself into thinking that she was able to satisfy you sexually, and has now learned that this is NOT true. She now feels extremely vulnerable with the thoughts that she is inadequate for you and that you are not happy with her the way she is.
*
You are going to have to rebuild trust and rebuild her confidence in the relationship if you want to go forwards and reconcile. *

It would have been a completely different story if you had always been very open with your sexuality and use of porn with her and made her aware of these things since the beginning. But NO, you chose to hide it instead. So now you ave to deal with those consequences.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

SteelyPhil said:


> That sounds amazing but does such a woman exist? lol. My wife has told me repeatedly in arguments over the years "Good luck finding someone that will put up with your BS" and now its "Women are not fine with their husbands watching porn, I don't care what you say". She even went as far as to say "If we get a divorce I'm telling your family it's because you watch porn and can't stop", just wow.


Women like porn too, but many are not as reliant on visual stimulation as men are and therefore they tend to gravitate to other things (such as romance novels) that seem to be focused more on context. If a woman has a stereotypical complaint about porn, it would be that there is no plot. 

I'll warn you do NOT compare your wife to other women being tolerant of porn as a way to defuse this argument. It is way more important to find out WHY she does not like porn and WHY she feels hurt when you watch it. You need to acknowledge her feelings in that regard and still be able to accept her and love her to include the ways she feels. 

She may likely never change the way she feels, but if she loves you, you can also explain your sexuality a little better for her and what you needs are in a way that allow you two to find a compromise. 

Personally my wife is against porn because she feels that it is on par with prostitution and degrading towards women. To that argument you can ask her if it would be OK for you to watch Game of Thrones or better yet just animated porn since no performers were used.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SteelyPhil said:


> The other night my wife openly asked me after we were intimate if I watch porn. She was joking around with me and smiling saying things like "come on, I know you do it", "how do you like to get off", "tell me so I know", etc. I was hesitant to answer as in the past she's gotten upset talking about porn. Well I told her the truth, I said yes I do when we are arguing, when she doesn't want to have sex, when we are away from each other and that I've done it many times over the years. She then lost it and started yelling and screaming at me. It didn't matter that I told her it its just to get off and that men are visual by nature or that its not affecting us in the bedroom as I always want her (my sex drive is a lot higher then her own).
> 
> The arguing got so bad she threw a plate at a wall in our house which broke the plate and damaged the wall. She called me nearly every name in the book and at one point I was just sitting there taking it and asking her not to yell anymore. She went so far to say things like "well I'm going to start watching porn and see men that look better then you, have bigger ****s then you and are more fit then you". That hurt. Later she threw her wedding and engagement ring on the floor. I've seen this extremely angry side of her before and it scares me.
> 
> ...


Divorce may be the way to go, besides the porn, if this is how she handles being upset with you then she got some serious anger issues. Your kids will see this and in the end they will also behave like this.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

You and your wife are incompatible on many levels.

Your family doesn't have to live with her.

There are many dogs in shelters euthanized every day for lack of a good home. If she takes your shared dog with her, go save a life and adopt a dog of your own.

Get a divorce. Just file.

I have a high sex drive and have been known to crack open a bottle of wine with DH and take turns picking porn to watch. So, yes, there are women out there who actually like sex and have no problems with reasonable porn use.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Religious {Christian, for sure} people, can't watch pornography, according to the tenets of their faith. They wouldn't want to be married to a person that watches it either.
> 
> The most famous Christian scripture that speaks about this is:
> 
> ...


I believe the point of that scripture is that it is impossible to do that, so that is why you need a savior. In other words you are committing adultery if you even look at a woman so don't think you can just not sleep around and not be a sinner. Nope you ARE a sinner and you need to be saved. It's not Jesus saying if you look at a woman and feel lust you have to cut your eyes out. His point is since you can't cut your eyes out, I have provided a better way through grace. 

Most Christians go to church and believe in Christ because they know they are sinners not because they think they are more righteous then everyone else. The self-righteous ones get all the press though.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> I have said this before.
> 
> The truth hurts. Honesty is not always the best policy.
> 
> ...


In cases like this though if he had lied eventually she would have found out and it would have been worse. If she can't live with him and he can't be honest the better answer it to move on, not lie.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

jld said:


> It sounds like she wants you to take responsibility for her feelings. That usually does not work.
> 
> 
> 
> You do understand that your looking at porn is not likely helping her self esteem, though, right?




A balanced woman is responsible for her own self esteem.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Steel,

Your mistake was to discuss this right after sex. But you were forced. 

You should have said you have watched it but it is nothing compared to her.

You need to stop these hollow divorce threats. Print out the divorce papers and hand them to her. If she files them, you are better off. If not, she will stop the threats.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

SteelyPhil said:


> Towards the end of the argument she said she wants a divorce, that she hopes I rot in hell, that I repulse her, and other hurtful things. My wife and I don't have kids, yet so maybe a divorce would be best.
> 
> Is my wife taking her anger to far? I don't know what to do and feel trapped.


No kids and she's an insecure, verbally abusive, borderline physically violent lunatic?!? 

RUN BUDDY. Divorce her before the next kitchen plate she throws, smashes you in the face.

If the roles were reversed, the women here would be telling to you call the po-po and to file domestic assault charges.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

SteelyPhil said:


> That sounds amazing but does such a woman exist? lol. My wife has told me repeatedly in arguments over the years "Good luck finding someone that will put up with your BS" and now its "Women are not fine with their husbands watching porn, I don't care what you say". She even went as far as to say "If we get a divorce I'm telling your family it's because you watch porn and can't stop", just wow.


She's wrong, there are many women who watch porn with their SO's and not just to appease them, but because they like watching it together as a couple. Your wife sounds manipulative and insecure, to be honest. I would NOT bring kids into this situation, and you probably could find a nicer woman to be with than her. Not to say there aren't women who wouldn't be upset that you're viewing porn, but your wife sounds insecure in general, and unless she gets help for that, your life will be miserable in this marriage, just saying.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> But don't you like watching women with bigger boobs than her?
> 
> That's part of the appeal of watching porn. She knows that. That's what hurts.
> 
> ...


I just saw this thread for the first time and I am shocked by the initial responses here. 

There is a difference between watching porn with people with attributes better than your spouse and TELLING them that you are going to watch it because they are better than your spouse. That's really ****ed up. This woman sounds nuts. What if she was like, "Hey baby, what are you doing in the other room?" "Jerking off to some chick who is prettier, has bigger tits and doesn't ****ing piss me off like you do!" Now, it's certainly true, but you don't tell someone that. How is that even justifiable...

She sounds nuts and maybe divorce is in order. Or enjoy the BSC a little more if you know what I mean.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Crazy vs hot line graph - 9GAG

DUDE! You are living in the "danger zone"


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## Mika1006 (Nov 5, 2016)

Herschel said:


> I just saw this thread for the first time and I am shocked by the initial responses here


Me too.. 
She sounds psycho!

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


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## Hellomynameis (Dec 16, 2016)

I'm going to skip over the porn issue here and go straight to the violent tendencies, because I've been there. My husband very rarely lost his temper in our early years together, but when he did, it was scary. He threw furniture. He broke windows. He punched holes in walls. He threw a couch and a Christmas tree out the window. He started bar fights by throwing stools. I was a foolish college kid when I met him and convinced myself that since he never hurt ME it was OK. Still, I made a sincere effort not to be the reason behind his rages.

The entire time we lived together he never once physically hurt me. The day he walked out on me, never to return, he left me on the kitchen floor barely breathing, because he was angry that the baby had cried all night and kept him awake and that I hadn't done enough to stop the crying. Up until that day, I had never truly believed he would hurt me. I found out from my BIL, long after the separation, that my husband had told him he'd attacked me to keep himself from hurting our two month old son instead.

All this to say - your wife has a serious anger management issue. If you want kids, get out and don't have them with her. In fact in the process of divorcing her I would make a point of telling her that she should never have kids unless she learns to control her violent tendencies. Any children she has are likely to end up emotionally, verbally, and quite likely physically abused.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

jld said:


> Totally, totally, totally agree with the bolded.
> 
> If you feel trapped right now, can you imagine how much *more* trapped you would feel if you had children with her?


I can't imagine how I could agree more with this.
OP, DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN WITH THIS WOMAN!!!!!!!

And if I were in your situation, I'd get a divorce and find a woman who is easier to live with than she is. That shouldn't be hard.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

SteelyPhil said:


> Thank you for the reply, those are good points. I've thought too about how divorce would be easier without us currently having any kids. At times we seem compatible and at others times I would say no way.
> 
> Whenever my wife and I have ever talked about divorce I think we both just can't face the idea of us failing each other and our families. However, I know its not healthy to keep going on this way with these types of arguments.
> 
> *We've talked about having kids but it seems more of a "this is the next step" thought then something I really want to do.* I know that having kids right now wouldn't be a good idea as we would need to be happier with each other before starting a family.


DO NOT have kids! Your [email protected] will be in a vise for the next 18 years. You will love those kids & she will threaten to take them away and will tell you "You will be LUCKY to see them every other weekend." 

Let me ask you something, even if you lost weight, got in great shape, took your wife on romantic dates and did everything over the top, would she be happy? 

I think the answer is No, she is not happy with herself.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

SteelyPhil said:


> That sounds amazing but does such a woman exist? lol. My wife has told me repeatedly in arguments over the years "Good luck finding someone that will put up with your BS" and now its "Women are not fine with their husbands watching porn, I don't care what you say". She even went as far as to say "If we get a divorce I'm telling your family it's because you watch porn and can't stop", just wow.




Yes women like that exist. I (WAS) one of them. My husband was an avid porn user, Occasionally I watched with him, and even more rarely I watched alone for my own visual stimulation. 

Since I discovered my husbands cheating and the nature of his actions I have not been so accepting of Porn. I saw how in my husbands case it encouraged his cheating actions. (not this case for all people.) I feel like I want to die if I find pictures of asian women on his computer. I hate myself and him to the very core when I see all the women that i could never measure up to.... And that he could see how I don't even come near to equal the fantasy. It breaks my heart. 

So, now Im not very nice about seeing porn or hearing about porn. I have been hurt so bad that I know hate the entire sex industry. But pain makes us hard, and cynical. 




You two have too much that divides you. If you can't even discuss science and news with her then its obvious that her views and held beliefs are more important than shared discussion. It would be best she finds a person who actually believes what she does to the same point. Its obvious you both have two very different mental lives, morals, ethics, goals.... 

Ask her for a divorce. I know you love the dog... But its just a dog. You may have a chance to see him again.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

Herschel said:


> I just saw this thread for the first time and I am shocked by the initial responses here.
> 
> There is a difference between watching porn with people with attributes better than your spouse and TELLING them that you are going to watch it because they are better than your spouse.


I don't see anywhere on this thread where he posted the watches porn because she doesn't measure up.

He said exactly the opposite. 



SteelyPhil said:


> I would never yell at her and say "I love watching women with bigger boobs then you" or something along those lines, that is something I would never think to say to my spouse. She went there though.


There is a repetitive cycle of abuse on her part that points to a serious mental/personality disorder. 



SteelyPhil said:


> The verbal and the few times of physical destructive abuse has been going on for years. It's corroded our marriage and at times is hard to overlook when trying to improve.


She needs treatment or he needs to extricate himself from the relationship. Or both.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

Oh and I know a girl, my age that divorced her first husband over Porn. This is how she tells it. And you know what? EVERYONE rolls their eyes behind their backs. We all now the reason she and him divorced, its because she is a difficult person to live and grow with. 

No one thought badly of him, despite her best efforts.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

threelittlestars said:


> Yes women like that exist. I (WAS) one of them. My husband was an avid porn user, Occasionally I watched with him, and even more rarely I watched alone for my own visual stimulation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




There is no "it's just a dog". :-(


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> There is no "it's just a dog". :-(


Yes, there is. I have had my dog for 9 years. She was my companion through what was arguably my worst years of my life, during my divorce, my estrangement from my children, and then rebuilding my life. 

But she's just a dog. Limited intelligence, limited lifespan, and very low on the evolutionary scale. 

I'd never dump thousands into medical care for her, I don't know what the limit would be but it certainly wouldn't be the tens of thousands I've heard people spending on their pets, and if it came down to a matter of custody, well let's just say there are more important issues to fight over and spend on legal fees and wasted time in family court.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

This is why men also have to own their sexuality and stop hiding something as normal and common as watching porn. Provided the sexual energy remains primarily focused on the spouse, porn viewing is normal. NORMAL!

To say a husband should respect his wife's wishes and not watch porn, because it makes her feel insecure about herself, is just as wrong as husband insisting his wife give up her social life with her friends because he gets jealous that she might be seen by some other man. Both behaviors are controlling someone so that you won't feel neurotically insecure. 

@SteelyPhil

Your wife has a religiously based rigidity, and consequent misunderstanding, about sex and sexuality in general. She also is insecure and uses control and emotional abuse to minimize HER bad feelings about herself. You have enabled this by avoiding a hot button topic that should have been discussed and addressed in the beginning because porn viewing is normal and NOT something to hide or feel ashamed about. Your conflict avoidance has contributed to your marital difficulties, but it hasn't caused them.

I don't believe there is a single person on this thread who thinks your marriage is worth saving. I don't believe your marriage CAN be saved because your wife's issues are the kind that don't go away without HER commitment to ridding herself of both her insecurity and her rigidity.

Sit her down and tell her how often you watch porn, why you watch porn and that porn viewing is normal and you won't be hiding it anymore. Tell her you were wrong to allow her to think you stopped watching porn. Tell her if she can't discuss this like adults without name calling and breaking things the marriage is over. Then watch her nuke the marriage because she isn't capable of NOT having a complete emotional melt down and explosion. If by some miracle she doesn't explode, you have to explain that porn watching is not about wishing for that woman, or comparing reality with fantasy. It's about simply having a venue to focus sexual energy and release. If she doesn't want you to watch other women have sex via porn, and doesn't have anywhere near the sex drive you do, she can make little videos that you can watch and you won't be seeing another woman have sex but your own wife. 

I have no issue if my husband watches porn so long as I get the sexual energy I need from him. We've made a few videos that he watches when he is on the road. 

Women think their man is comparing her unfavorably to what he sees in Porn. If this isn't true, it's up to you men to educate your wives so they understand better.


Be a man and stand up for yourself!


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

sokillme said:


> *I believe the point of that scripture is that it is impossible to do that*, so that is why you need a savior. In other words you are committing adultery if you even look at a woman so don't think you can just not sleep around and not be a sinner. Nope you ARE a sinner and you need to be saved. It's not Jesus saying if you look at a woman and feel lust you have to cut your eyes out. His point is since you can't cut your eyes out, I have provided a better way through grace.
> 
> Most Christians go to church and believe in Christ because they know they are sinners not because they think they are more righteous then everyone else. The self-righteous ones get all the press though.




But you're supposed to gouge your eye out, rather than have your soul burn in hell.

"Faith without works is dead" James 2:14. You can't just talk the talk, you've gotta walk the walk.

You've got enough to deal with, just lusting after women/men you see in real life, or in regular movies. That's almost unavoidable.

But to go to the trouble of finding and watching porn; means you don't care about what the Bible tells you to do. And that's a very common thing. 

And this obviously only applies to religions like Christianity;which are just as concerned with motives; as they are with actions.

But yeah, I think Christians are massive porn users. I remember hearing that the Bible Belt states had the heaviest use.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

browser said:


> Yes, there is. I have had my dog for 9 years. She was my companion through what was arguably my worst years of my life, during my divorce, my estrangement from my children, and then rebuilding my life.
> 
> But she's just a dog. Limited intelligence, limited lifespan, and very low on the evolutionary scale.
> 
> I'd never dump thousands into medical care for her, I don't know what the limit would be but it certainly wouldn't be the tens of thousands I've heard people spending on their pets, and if it came down to a matter of custody, well let's just say there are more important issues to fight over and spend on legal fees and wasted time in family court.




Compared to a marriage with limited lifespan or spouse that is low on the evolutionary scale, a dog is better option in many cases.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

notmyrealname4 said:


> But you're supposed to gouge your eye out, rather than have your soul burn in hell.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




A guy looks at porn to jerk off, which floods him with hormones and relieves stress. That's about it.

At least, that is what I am told. 

I've lived in the North. And in the Bible belt. Same porn use in both places. Perhaps those in the Bible belt are just more likely to know lie and admit porn use.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Compared to a marriage with limited lifespan or spouse that is low on the evolutionary scale, a dog is better option in many cases.


I'm not disagreeing with you there. Dogs make great companions and they can be a better option than many ex's I've had the displeasure to have known. I just wouldn't fight a spouse in court over visitation with a dog, nor would I spend thousand of dollars on medical care for a dog.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

I went back and read your earlier thread 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...rce-need-some-advice-please.html#post15874241

and several parts of that post stood out to me.



SteelyPhil said:


> My wife and I have been married for 5 years and currently have no kids. We got married after dating for about a year and when I look back now we got married while still in the infatuation phase. *Even on the day of our wedding I was kinda wondering what I was doing as I didn't have this "she is the love my life and I'm crazy about her" feeling*. I'm an only child, the last to carry on my family name, and have always felt some pressure from my family to get married and start a family.





SteelyPhil said:


> Even though I've been considering divorce I still wonder if there's something I can do to improve myself that will make us happy. On the other side of the coin *I just want to be done with this marriage*, travel the world, meet new people, enjoy being single for a while *and then find the real love of my life*. Right now I just have this feeling about myself of "your done, this is it, you missed your opportunity"...it's a very depressing feeling to have.


 @SteelyPhil,

This isn't about the porn. Unfortunately, your wife used the question about your porn use to confirm her long time suspicions - you have never thought of her as your 'real love'. That's probably why her reaction was so over the top. It's easier to blame the porn than to accept the deeper truth.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

Great insights @Lila


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

OP, may I ask how YOU feel about your porn usage?

Does it make you feel guilty, or tug on your conscience?

Or do you use it and feel it is the right thing to be doing as a married (somewhat) Christian man?

If she does announce this to your family, how would you feel? How would they feel?

We've read a lot about how she feels about it, I'm curious how you feel about it?

Also, her anger is unacceptable. There are plenty of bible verses to prove that point too...


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Sounds like a boring/miserable marriage. Divorce her and move on. Me and many others have done just that.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

A side thought, porn viewing isn't always about seeing someone with better boobs, etc. Porn is also about selling the fantasy of being with someone that wants nothing more than to [email protected] your brains out. No jumping thru hoops & trying to appease your spouse so they might get in the mood for sex.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> "Faith without works is dead" James 2:14. You can't just talk the talk, you've gotta walk the walk..


 It may be dead but it doesn't mean you don't go to heaven. Look at the criminal on the cross, "You will be with me in paradise". what works did he do?

Not saying looking at porn isn't a sin.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

sokillme said:


> It may be dead but it doesn't mean you don't go to heaven. Look at the criminal on the cross, "You will be with me in paradise". what works did he do?
> 
> Not saying looking at porn isn't a sin.




Well, I'm not trying to be a spiritual teacher, that's for sure.



> "Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, *for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.* For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body."
> 
> [James 3:1-2]



I dunno. Ask your priest or pastor if using porn is okay??? Their advice would be the best you could get [outside of the Bible itself, I guess]


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

I don't recall OP bringing up any Christian or biblical issues.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Well, I'm not trying to be a spiritual teacher, that's for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not trying either believe me. Just saying it' no different then any other sin. That's the thing if you are gonna be a Christian then you have to believe YOU are a sinner, and you really shouldn't worry about anyone elses sin.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> I don't recall OP bringing up any Christian or biblical issues.


His wife did. It was part of her objection to his behavior in between flying plates.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

SteelyPhil said:


> Another example is religion. My wife and her family are more religious then myself and my side of the family. She's gotten very upset before when I've talked about science topics such as evolution and even said that a lot of science based shows and people of science are there just to disprove God. I just sat there puzzled and upset that I can't have a deep conversation about religion, God, science, etc without her getting upset.






blueinbr said:


> I don't recall OP bringing up any Christian or biblical issues.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Holy [email protected] Run.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

SteelyPhil said:


> That sounds amazing but does such a woman exist? lol. My wife has told me repeatedly in arguments over the years "Good luck finding someone that will put up with your BS" and now its "Women are not fine with their husbands watching porn, I don't care what you say". She even went as far as to say "If we get a divorce I'm telling your family it's because you watch porn and can't stop", just wow.


I watch porn alone, my BF watches porn alone, we watch porn together.

That she tricked you about watching porn is highly disturbing to me. That's not a healthy relationship. Her response was violent and NOT acceptable.

The fact that you two have different views on religion and science is also troubling. I just don't think you two are compatible.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

SteelyPhil said:


> The arguing got so bad she threw a plate at a wall in our house.... The verbal and the few times of physical destructive abuse has been going on for years.... Is my wife taking her anger too far?


Phil, please tell us how bad those other instances of "physical destructive abuse" were. Specifically, what did she throw or destroy on those occasions? Has she hit you?

I ask for more detail about your W's rages and temper tantrums because such a lack of control over her own emotions is a warning sign for having strong traits of a personality disorder, particularly BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). _"Intense, inappropriate anger"_ is one of the nine defining traits for BPD. As *Hellomynameis* observed above (post 69), the behaviors you describe seem to suggest _"your wife has a serious anger management issue."_

Further, as *Jimrich* notes above (post 16), the angry outbursts you say occurred for the past four years may be _"due to a huge residue of inner, bottled up, repressed, old angry feelings/memories from long ago...."_ Moreover, if your W is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), she carries much anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that triggers a release of the anger that is already there. 

This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. Indeed, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions.

Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it. I mention BPD because many behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational jealousy, low self esteem, controlling attitude, easily triggered temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, black-white thinking, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between loving you and hating you -- are classic warning signs for BPD.



> I've seen this extremely angry side of her before and it scares me.


I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot -- especially after you've been married for five years -- because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and rapid event-triggered mood flips.



> I don't feel I can be completely honest with her as I'm fearful of how she will act in response, like this one.


Being fearful of expressing your honest opinions and constraining your actions in this way is called "walking on eggshells." Doing so is harmful to you because you've spent the past four years not expressing your true self. And it is harmful to your W because your enabling behavior allows her to avoid suffering the logical consequences of her own bad behavior. In that way, you are destroying her opportunities to have to confront her own issues and learn how to manage them. It therefore is not surprising that the best-selling BPD book (targeted to the abused spouses) is titled, _Stop Walking on Eggshells._ 



> There are many "you *never* care about me", "you *only* care about yourself"... type comments.


These all-or-nothing expressions, when used frequently and with conviction, are a warning sign for "black-white thinking." Like young children, BPDers rely heavily on B-W thinking because they are too emotionally immature to handle strong conflicting feelings (e.g., love and hate) simultaneously. They therefore categorize everyone close to them as "all good" or "all bad" -- and will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other, in just a few seconds, based solely on a minor comment or action. I suspect that this strong association between B-W thinking and PDs is the reason that *Voltaire2013* asked (in post 17) _"Is there a lot of 'you always/you never' statements from her?"_



> I told her I've been looking porn since I was a teenager, that it had been going on for years including when we met, not a lot but from time to time.


Yawn. *Robert Weiss* reports that recent studies show 70% of men aged 18 to 24 visit a porn site at least once per month; the largest consumer group of Internet porn is men aged 35 to 49; one-fourth of all online search engine requests are related to sex; 35% of all Internet downloads are pornographic; and one-third of all Internet porn users are female.



> I don't know what to do and feel trapped.


Phil, if you are still reluctant to divorce her, I recommend that you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is that you are dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about BPD warning signs to see if they seem to apply.

An easy place to start reading is my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back or avoid running into the arms of another woman who is just like her. Take care, Phil.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

SteelyPhil said:


> That sounds amazing but does such a woman exist? lol. My wife has told me repeatedly in arguments over the years "Good luck finding someone that will put up with your BS" and now its "Women are not fine with their husbands watching porn, I don't care what you say". She even went as far as to say "If we get a divorce I'm telling your family it's because you watch porn and can't stop", just wow.





blueinbr said:


> There is no "it's just a dog". :-(


I only refer that A dog is not what i WOULD consider good reason to stay together. If kids are not a good enough excuse to stay in a bad marriage, is a DOG a good reason to stay in an unhealthy partnership? Besides, he does not kNOW that she would get the dog. He could easily just leave with the dog. Possession is 9/10ths of the law.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

VFW said:


> *Moral of the story: Never ask questions, you don't want answered. I think you need to have a serious discussion. If you can't have an honest discussion, then it is not much of a relationship. She baited you into the discussion, which is much more disturbing to we than what you did. I understand why she may be bothered* and has every right to make it an issue, besides the human mind can create any scene you want without video footage. Still I would not beg or plead, but instead consult with an attorney on an uncontested divorce. Then I would set aside a time to talk and you two need to decide if you are going to more forward together or throw in the towel.


Exactly...you were baited into answering a question that on the surface was sold to you as "let me know so I can do those things for you." So you did and the table was turned. Very poor behavior on your W part. She was not honest with her intentions if the information provided after sugar coating the reason to know was used then against you.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

SteelyPhil said:


> Lol @ that video, I can relate to it.
> 
> I'll be honest, my wife and I don't have a good marriage. We have been married for 5 years and have been arguing for the past 4. If someone asked me if my wife is my soulmate I would say "no". Recently I've been thinking more and more about being single again and one day meeting someone else because of the arguments similar to the one I described at the start of the thread. We've had so many arguments and have said so many hurtful things to each other that it has corroded my image of her (she has said the same thing more or less).
> 
> There are many "you never care about me", "you only care about yourself", "you are a typical man", etc type comments. I end up feeling like I never do anything right when I hear her say those things. Then I go off listing all of the things I do for us, for her, her family, our house, how just the other night I said she looked beautiful, etc. I feel exhausted having to make and recite these lists.


Time to cut ties, sir.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

SteelyPhil said:


> We talked a bit more after the initial argument. She asked me how many times I've watched porn and I said "I don't know, probably dozens, if not hundreds of times". I was met with a very loud "F**k you!"...After that I shutdown again as she just kept beating me down with her words, at that point I don't even want to argue.


Sir, your W asked for a divorce. How many times you have watched is not a concern of hers any longer.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Your in a difficult situation. Never answer her truthfuly in regards to Porn again.

That being said i suspect the threatning of Divorce is her standing over you in an attempt to have you riddled in fear. If she is that unstable in which she has to resort to assualting you by throwing a plate at you tell her to go ahead and divorce.

You dont need that kind of drama in your life.

That said i say the above presuming there are no other issues going on in which you are to blame for.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

It sounds like OP and his wife both have issues that are affecting their marriage. I would not say this is all one sided and his wife is crazy, maybe she has angry issues, but he has porn issues and obviously is not trust worthy as he hide it from his wife. The porn issues in my marriage nearly destroyed it and if it wasn't for the fact that we had a good relationship I would have walked. I still struggling to get over it and still have days I feel like leaving.

Porn use in a marriage is not normal, it's a sign of a problem. If you are having engaged sex with your partner, a healthy number of times a week then there is no need for porn. Using it would be like telling your spouse, even though we have great sex frequently you are still not enough and I need to supplement you with other woman/men.

If the OP want to save his marriage he needs to dip deeper and find the real reason for his wife outburst and it's going to take a lot of time and energy on both sides to fix it, but some people are beyond damaged or are unwilling or unable to change. He needs to decide if his wife is one of those people. Filing for divorce might be the wake up call his wife needs.He should know though that if he asks her to change he better be prepared to make changes himself and if stopping looking at porn is one thing she needs him to do, he should be prepared to do it and not just lie and hide it. 

All the best.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Daisy12 said:


> Porn use in a marriage is not normal, it's a sign of a problem. If you are having engaged sex with your partner, a healthy number of times a week then there is no need for porn. Using it would be like telling your spouse, even though we have great sex frequently you are still not enough and I need to supplement you with other woman/men.


Flat out disagree with this.

Porn use in a marriage in which the other partner is against it - that's not okay, but 9x out of 10, it has nothing to do with rejecting one's partner.

It seems that OP has a higher drive than his wife, therefore he needs an outlet from time to time. I don't get the impression he'd rather watch porn than be with his wife. If that was the case (and it most definitely can be, as we've seen here) THEN it's an issue. But it's not all that common. I would MUCH rather have sex with my wife then masturbate or watch porn, but alas, I don't have the luxury of having a partner with the same drive as me. Many people don't. 

I do agree that it's an issue in this marriage, however, as his wife (rightly or wrongly) does not want him watching porn.

My ex wife was very much against it, too, though there was absolutely no religious reason behind it - it was a control thing, and primarily that she didn't want me looking at other women. She wasn't even a fan of me masturbating. But the kicker was that she had no qualms about rejecting me sexually on a regular basis. So I was expected to 'hold it' until she wanted something. Again, control. I respected her opinion on the matter and did try to see it from her POV - she's allowed to dislike porn, or me looking at other women, so I did it pretty rarely. But when I did, there was no guilt or shame. I wasn't looking at women wishing my wife looked like that, or did those things. Most people who watch porn (and are not addicted) can separate the two things entirely.

Just like the vast majority of women who masturbate using vibrators, dildos or the shower head don't compare any of those things to their partner. They'd also much rather have sex with them, I imagine. I can't do anything my wife's vibrator does, so should I ban them?

*ETA - it's completely subjective, and one is allowed to have rules about such things if they so choose. However, the other person in the relationship is also allowed to have a say. Marriage is a 2-way street.

OP's wife is absolutely allowed to hate porn and request that he not use it. However, he is also allowed to have his own opinions on it and voice them. It seems in this case he is not, and that's a shame. The manner in which she went about all of this is awful, IMO, and that's indicative of her own shortcomings.

I told my ex wife (not in these exact words) that if she didn't want me watching porn, or even masturbating, then she has the power to make it so I never have the need. If she (like OP's wife) is THAT against it, then she, herself, can ensure it doesn't happen again.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

alexm said:


> Flat out disagree with this.
> 
> Porn use in a marriage in which the other partner is against it - that's not okay, but 9x out of 10, it has nothing to do with rejecting one's partner.
> 
> ...



If a couple Is using porn together to spice up their marriage than I don't see a problem. If one spouse is using it without the other one than I have to question why. I believe a marriage is successful with how well you can meet your spouses needs and how well they can meet yours. If you are HD and your Spouse LD and you tell them that they are not meeting your sexual needs and you are realistic with your expectations of what you want from them and they still tell you, no go masturbate to porn, than there is a problem in that marriage IMO. 

I wish that my husband had of threatened to leave me or sit me down years ago when our sex life started to fail. Instead he stayed silent and resentful and turned away from me and to porn, lying and hiding it from me for years. I'm sure in his mind he was trying to be a good husband and keep the peace. I wish he had of gave me the choice or the chance to be what he needed me to be, because I would much rather my husband have sex with me than masturbate and use porn. He robbed me of that and has now left me with feeling of angry, which I own as it is my choice to be angry, but he has left me with distrust of him and a change of how I see him as a man, husband and father and that he has to own and live with as he chose to lie to me, even after he knew his use upset me.

So if your partner doesn't care enough about you to meet your needs, and you have to use porn even with them knowing and not caring IMO that is a sign there are problems in the marriage. I'm sure there are times men may have to masturbate due to uncontrollable circumstances but if these times are very few and far between is it necessary to use porn at those times. Can you not get the job done with out it? I'm not a man, so maybe I'm wrong in thinking that having to masturbate without porn once every six month is doable for a man.

Edited to add: I am in no way saying that using porn is wrong and that men and woman shouldn't use it and I know a lot of people chose to use it to stay in a marriage where they are not being fulfilled and that is their choice to do that. Some people would rather meet their own needs than to leave their spouse. I would not, but that is just me. I need to have that connection with my husband that I know he only shares with me.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Sounds like another excuse for continuing to deny your man.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

alexm said:


> *ETA - it's completely subjective, and one is allowed to have rules about such things if they so choose. However, the other person in the relationship is also allowed to have a say. Marriage is a 2-way street.
> 
> OP's wife is absolutely allowed to hate porn and request that he not use it. However, he is also allowed to have his own opinions on it and voice them. It seems in this case he is not, and that's a shame. The manner in which she went about all of this is awful, IMO, and that's indicative of her own shortcomings.
> 
> I told my ex wife (not in these exact words) that if she didn't want me watching porn, or even masturbating, then she has the power to make it so I never have the need. If she (like OP's wife) is THAT against it, then she, herself, can ensure it doesn't happen again.


This I completely agree with. The OP Wife reacted badly as the OP did as well with the lying but there is more problems in that marriage than porn.

I do not want my husband watching porn, so I make sure he has no reason to think about it and by me fulfilling his sexual needs it is a win/win situation for us both. If I couldn't fulfill his needs and he still needed porn, than I would rather leave than continue in a marriage that way.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Daisy12 said:


> This I completely agree with. The OP Wife reacted badly as the OP did as well with the lying but there is more problems in that marriage than porn.
> 
> 
> 
> I do not want my husband watching porn, so I make sure he has no reason to think about it and by me fulfilling his sexual needs it is a win/win situation for us both. If I couldn't fulfill his needs and he still needed porn, than I would rather leave than continue in a marriage that way.




Many women won't have energetic, fun, creative sec at lest daily over the course of several decades. A few will and a few are on TAM and I love you guys. But most simply won't.

Even my w who IS willing to have some type of sex daily now (since being on TAM and addressing things over a long period) doesn't have the time or energy to arouse me daily and meet those needs. I use porn for arousal. As men age function and arousal can naturally separate so I function fine with limited enjoyment unless fully aroused. My point is this is much more complicated in a LTR if we are honest about our needs and limits


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Many women won't have energetic, fun, creative sec at lest daily over the course of several decades. A few will and a few are on TAM and I love you guys. But most simply won't.
> 
> Even my w who IS willing to have some type of sex daily now (since being on TAM and addressing things over a long period) doesn't have the time or energy to arouse me daily and meet those needs. I use porn for arousal. As men age function and arousal can naturally separate so I function fine with limited enjoyment unless fully aroused. My point is this is much more complicated in a LTR if we are honest about our needs and limits


You know it's true we don't have the energy to create a mind blowing experience for our husband every day, we are busy working, raising children and keeping a house on top of taking care of ourselves, keeping in shape..etc What I am saying that there has to be a compromise... maybe you would like crazy exciting sex everyday, but it's unfair and unrealistic to expect that from your wife everyday just like it unrealistic for your wife to expect you to go 3 weeks without sex. To say that if my wife won't give me that everyday I will just use porn seems childish. I don't understand why your wife does not arouse you? Do you not find her attractive anymore? Is there a point in a man's life that you need way more visual/mental stimulation to get aroused? I don't have to do much to get my husbands attention and he enjoys our vanilla sex just as much as our crazy sex. I can arouse him with just a few suggestive texts during the day or a naughty note taped the to bathroom mirror before I leave for work. He is relatively still young though so maybe as he ages it will require more time and attention to get him there, which I am will happily do.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Daisy12 said:


> You know it's true we don't have the energy to create a mind blowing experience for our husband every day, we are busy working, raising children and keeping a house on top of taking care of ourselves, keeping in shape..etc What I am saying that there has to be a compromise... maybe you would like crazy exciting sex everyday, but it's unfair and unrealistic to expect that from your wife everyday just like it unrealistic for your wife to expect you to go 3 weeks without sex. To say that if my wife won't give me that everyday I will just use porn seems childish. I don't understand why your wife does not arouse you? Do you not find her attractive anymore? Is there a point in a man's life that you need way more visual/mental stimulation to get aroused? I don't have to do much to get my husbands attention and he enjoys our vanilla sex just as much as our crazy sex. I can arouse him with just a few suggestive texts during the day or a naughty note taped the to bathroom mirror before I leave for work. He is relatively still young though so maybe as he ages it will require more time and attention to get him there, which I am will happily do.


I don't really agree with your stance on porn, but that's ok. I don't have to. Even so, I have to say that I admire your approach to the issue. There are many people in this world who are complainers, angry and disappointed that other people aren't fixing their problems. From what I can see, that's just not how you roll. You have this issue, a want, a need in your marriage and you approach it with actions and a can-do attitude. I respect that, and I suspect your husband is a happy man because of it.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

I'll answer these questions @Spicy so the OP has some model answers...



Spicy said:


> OP, may I ask how YOU feel about your porn usage?


I'm not ashamed of it and my wife is aware. She does however prefer that I am discrete and she does not want to know about it unless she wants to ask for whatever reason. Because my wife somewhat frowns upon porn, I've conditioned myself to read more and watch less. I personally find research books written on sexuality to be rather enlightening and enjoyable in a way that enhances some of my fantasies with my wife.



> Does it make you feel guilty, or tug on your conscience?


No. When I discover something interesting, I often enjoy discussing that with my wife.



> Or do you use it and feel it is the right thing to be doing as a married (somewhat) Christian man?


It is my personal belief that god made us all imperfect to teach us what love is actually about. We can not expect ourselves or our spouses to be perfect, and we have to learn to love and accept ourselves and each other for who we are before any healing can begin. 




> If she does announce this to your family, how would you feel? How would they feel?


OMG my older sister has tried to publicly humiliate me for my porn habits when I was a teenager in front of the whole family during events like Thanksgiving. Everyone knew my brother and I would often start wars with each other by stealing each other's porn stash. Everyone would just roll their eyes and fuss at my sister for trying to talk about something inappropriate at the dinner table. 

To date my sister still tries to do this, but my brother and I will laugh at all our childhood memories of all our clandestine VHS dubbing machines hidden under the living room couches and helping friends descramble the spice channel with their grandpa's satellite equipment. Those have now become some rather fun stories when family gets together. 

Now what was funny and my brother and I almost fell on the floor laughing was that when we asked my sister's husband about his porn stories growing up, he got all awkward, froze, and said, "I never watch that stuff, I do not know what you are talking about!" ...and we could tell our sister actually believed him. Now when our sister tries to publicly humiliate us we have started making fun of her husband and we try to freeze up the same way and just exclaim, "I never watch that stuff, I do not know what you are talking about!"

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

Thanks @WorkingOnMe After reading so many post of here of men that stay with their wife when they are unhappy with the sex and many other things and because of this they put little into the marriage really gave me a wake up call. I want my husband to wake up every morning happy that I'm his wife. I want him to be satisfied and have his need met at home so he wouldn't even dream of looking else where. I get great pleasure out of doing this for my husband as I enjoy it, he in returns would do anything I ask for him... He would turn around and drive back to town for anything I asked for even if he was 5 minutes from home and town is 20 minutes away. He makes our children a top priority which is important to me. He makes me a top priority in his life...

I realized that if I want a great husband I have to be a great wife, and that included being more sexually available and adventurous which I am enjoying as much as him and but I need to still have my self respect, my self esteem and my dignity and when my husband was using porn and lying about it he damaged those things. I am still struggling to regain the respect and trust I have lost for my husband. I know he's worth the second chance to make this right as he has given me a second chance to make it right on my end.... but the damage has been done.. it can't be undone and these feeling can't be erased. 

This is what I would love all men freshly going into a marriage to realize that is if you can't work out the sexually issues by talking and compromising, don't turn to porn in silence and hide it from your wife cause your doing more damage than good.. I would rather have set my husband free to find someone that could meets his needs if I couldn't have met them back then, than have to deal with the mess of his 13 year long off and on porn use he hid from me. He never gave me that choice to decide for myself..


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

I think marriages do fail because of porn, but I think the real reason is because people don't talk about it until the damage is done.

Its a really good idea to be honest with our partners about porn use
Make it clear that real sex with our spouses does not compare to a bit of visual arousal on a screen. Let her know how often you like sex and new things you would like to try. 
Bad idea to promise not to do it again (even if you really mean it at the time)
If there are any issues within the marriage at least give your partner the opportunity to correct it or understand it. Let her know the appeal of porn rather than she just makes her own conclusions (i.e not good enough).

Women should be realistic that porn is going to happen at some point and that if they really, really cannot abide the thought of it then they should do the kinder thing to themselves consider leaving. Don't expect things to change just because you got angry and do not like it. It really doesn't work like that and you are opening yourself up to being hurt over and over. Accept it (and address any issues) or leave imo. Don't kid yourselves that it will stop just because he loves you. 

I think being honest and realistic is better than BS*ing each other and playing hide and seek games gone wrong.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

not all people against porn are religious. Reasons a woman could be antiporn:
a) fear of the devil
b) personal body image issues, and wondering why their body is not hot enough for their husbands needs
c) a feminist viewpoint that the women in porn movies are probably being exploited
d) some personal, maybe hidden, sexual abuse in their past that porn triggers in then
e) the need to just be a ball busting boss of their man


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Daisy12 said:


> You know it's true we don't have the energy to create a mind blowing experience for our husband every day, we are busy working, raising children and keeping a house on top of taking care of ourselves, keeping in shape..etc What I am saying that there has to be a compromise... maybe you would like crazy exciting sex everyday, but it's unfair and unrealistic to expect that from your wife everyday just like it unrealistic for your wife to expect you to go 3 weeks without sex. To say that if my wife won't give me that everyday I will just use porn seems childish. I don't understand why your wife does not arouse you? Do you not find her attractive anymore? Is there a point in a man's life that you need way more visual/mental stimulation to get aroused? I don't have to do much to get my husbands attention and he enjoys our vanilla sex just as much as our crazy sex. I can arouse him with just a few suggestive texts during the day or a naughty note taped the to bathroom mirror before I leave for work. He is relatively still young though so maybe as he ages it will require more time and attention to get him there, which I am will happily do.




I completely agree that many women are too busy to meet their husbands needs. The compromise is to meet some of your own needs. Pretty simple.

Why would you try to shame me for meeting my own needs? Why would you imply that my needs are not worthy of being met?

The REAL problem is YOUR needs are being met with good and ok sex. Therefore you assume any excess needs aren't worthy of being met.

You also assume it's a bad thing if a W is simply not ENOUGH for her H. It's not a bad thing - it's simply true much of the time.

My boys are always hungry. They're back from college and we try to buy enough food in the types they want. BUT SOMETIMES ITS JUST NOT ENOUGH. I'm ok with that and my W is ok with that. And sometimes they get in the car and go buy junk food or more food. We don't like it but we acknowledge we aren't providing enough of what they need and want.

Pretty simple actually. I don't see the problem.


[edit] my w does not text me during the day and does not do anything sexy outside the bedroom. I am incredibly attracted to her so that is not an issue. I REQUIRE a longer buildup and stimulation to become aroused since I am over 50. It's the way many men age. So no, she is ABSOLUTELY not meeting those needs and that's ok. She has other things to do and those are her boundaries. Compromise.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

peacem said:


> I think marriages do fail because of porn, but I think the real reason is because people don't talk about it until the damage is done.
> 
> 
> Women should be realistic that porn is going to happen at some point and that if they really, really cannot abide the thought of it then they should do the kinder thing to themselves consider leaving. Don't expect things to change just because you got angry and do not like it. It really doesn't work like that and you are opening yourself up to being hurt over and over. Accept it (and address any issues) or leave imo. Don't kid yourselves that it will stop just because he loves you.
> ...


This is exactly how I feel. If you need to watch porn or want to watch porn, it's really your choice but don't lie to your spouse about it. I know this is the very reason why my husband lied to me is because he knew it would break up our marriage. It was not as strong as it is now back then, but IMO he had no right to lie to me all those years and say he wasn't watching porn when I would ask. He took my choice away and that's not right. The only reason I didn't instantly walk away is because of our children and for a while I hated him for making me chose my self respect and happiness for that of my children's.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> I completely agree that many women are too busy to meet their husbands needs. The compromise is to meet some of your own needs. Pretty simple.
> 
> Why would you try to shame me for meeting my own needs? Why would you imply that my needs are not worthy of being met?
> 
> ...


 I am not trying to shame you or even remotely say I understand your situation. If you using porn works in your marriage that's great, but you are obviously using it cause your needs are not being met which is greatly unfair to you if you are in return meeting all of your wife's needs. This seems to be a problem that a lot of men face in their marriage and it's not right to give 100% and only get back 50%, I just don't think porn will fix that issue but then maybe for someone who is really LD and selfish, nothing might fix that issue. All I was saying that for me I want to be the one to fulfill my husbands needs and right now I can, but maybe as we get older we might be in the same situation. Who knows!


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Daisy12 said:


> This is exactly how I feel. If you need to watch porn or want to watch porn, it's really your choice but don't lie to your spouse about it. I know this is the very reason why my husband lied to me is because he knew it would break up our marriage. It was not as strong as it is now back then, but IMO he had no right to lie to me all those years and say he wasn't watching porn when I would ask. He took my choice away and that's not right. The only reason I didn't instantly walk away is because of our children and for a while I hated him for making me chose my self respect and happiness for that of my children's.


The lying bothered me a lot more than the porn because when he would say 'Of course you are good enough!' (which he probably meant) I didn't believe him because I married someone that could look me straight in the eye and sincerely tell me whatever he thought I should hear.

What was much, much worse than the lying was having issues around sex and things he wasn't happy with and NEVER talking to me about it. He just withdrew. That felt like a huge betrayal - like I was married to a stranger. I felt like I wasn't worth it, if I couldn't read his mind it wasn't worth the trouble - whereas he went to a lot of time, trouble and money to access and conceal porn. 

I now know it was WAY more complicated than this ^^^, but at the time this is how it felt and it nearly finished our marriage. Which looking back is just ridiculous and completely avoidable. We were both at fault and both needed to grow up. 

Daisy12 - if you don't mind me asking - is porn still an issue in your marriage or have you accepted it and worked on your own self esteem? (Sorry if you have already said but I haven't read the whole thread). :smile2:


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

@peacem 

No porn is not an issue anymore in my marriage. I had found out about his reusing of porn 7 months ago after believing that he stopped completely when I found it out 5 years ago. At first he was defensive and didn't really see why it bothered me and how his using porn over the years was driving me away from the marital bed, not to it like he wanted. He has done a lot of work to assure me that this time he is done, parental controls were put on the computer, access to his phone and email accounts. He threw all the porn away and deleted everything he had. We have been talking weekly and being completely honest with each other, he has answered all my question which I know some were not easy for him to admit as he was ashamed of using porn. He is putting more time into the marriage and we are meeting each others needs. He even changed his sleeping schedule so that he comes to bed with me instead of being up late watching tv. 

I have never been in more pain than what this has put me through these last months and I would have left if not for the kids and I think that really scared my husband and made him realized that this stupid mistake of his was going to cost him everything he loves, and I know my husband loves me, he was just not comfortable enough to tell me what he wanted or needed.

I am still struggling with this as he has disclosed everything to me and frankly I have lost some of my respect for him. He has changed the way I see him and I don't know if these feeling I have will ever go away, if I can every trust him to be truthful to me after years of lying. I'm working on my end because my husband has shown me true remorse and a commitment to our marriage and if he puts the work into changing it's only fair I put the work into our marriage too...


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Daisy12 said:


> @peacem
> 
> 
> 
> I am still struggling with this as he has disclosed everything to me and frankly I have lost some of my respect for him. He has changed the way I see him and I don't know if these feeling I have will ever go away, if I can every trust him to be truthful to me after years of lying. I'm working on my end because my husband has shown me true remorse and a commitment to our marriage and if he puts the work into changing it's only fair I put the work into our marriage too...


I am here to testify that feeling does go away as long as you keep working at it. 

One thing that some men do not always understand it that it can make us suddenly feel unattractive and unsexy (which doesn't help when you are a mother to small children). This puts us off sex which creates a viscous circle. 

What took me a long time to get my head around is that men more often than not still prefer actual sex with the person they love. Porn is a very different way of exploring sexuality to that with a spouse. Something I did (that isn't going to be right for everyone) is I explored the porn sites that he used and I worked out for myself (because I didn't trust he words) that it was sometimes silly or lame, sometimes highly erotic (not sleazy), but most importantly the women were not what I thought (i.e ordinary, all shapes and sizes, some attractive, some not at all). I finally got that it was about watching a erotic sex act and becoming aroused to make masturbation quick. No real competition to me as long as he has regular sex with me. I could see it from his point of view.

We also briefly watched porn together and he said that he began to view porn with fresh eyes - watching the porn scene through the eyes of his wife whilst I sat next to him. He could then finally understand it from my point of view. 

Since then we took off all the filters etc. I haven't checked his stuff for years because I don't care anymore as long as things are good between us - when they stop being good I know that I need to be proactive and not wait for him to approach me or talk to me because he finds that so difficult.

Good luck to you both.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I'm always surprised to see how much variation in how people view porn.

To me it seems simple. Each person should make their partner the primary object of their sexual attraction, but if that partner is unavailable, then I think everyone has the right to satisfy themselves. That satisfaction can involve fantasy, sex toys written and visual porn.

I see no reason to tell a woman that she can't give herself an orgasm with a vibrator if her partner is not willing / able to do so at that time. Similarly I see no reason to tell a man not to masturbate to porn if his partner is not willing / able to have sex with him at that time. 

The only constraints I put on it is that first, people should not satisfy themselves and then turn their partners down for sex - assuming the partner is a considerate lover. Second, people need to be aware of the difference between fantasy and reality - that actions shown in porn may not be mutually enjoyable, that men are not sex toys always ready for use. 


I see a lot of mention of "lying" about porn. Part of that is that people are embarrassed by masturbation. I know my wife once told me she never masturbates - but of course she does, I see the sex toys sometimes moved. I just assume she is too shy to admit to it, I don't see it as an important lie.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Daisy12 said:


> Thanks @WorkingOnMe After reading so many post of here of men that stay with their wife when they are unhappy with the sex and many other things and because of this they put little into the marriage really gave me a wake up call. I want my husband to wake up every morning happy that I'm his wife. I want him to be satisfied and have his need met at home so he wouldn't even dream of looking else where. I get great pleasure out of doing this for my husband as I enjoy it, he in returns would do anything I ask for him... He would turn around and drive back to town for anything I asked for even if he was 5 minutes from home and town is 20 minutes away. He makes our children a top priority which is important to me. He makes me a top priority in his life...
> 
> I realized that if I want a great husband I have to be a great wife, and that included being more sexually available and adventurous which I am enjoying as much as him and but I need to still have my self respect, my self esteem and my dignity and when my husband was using porn and lying about it he damaged those things. I am still struggling to regain the respect and trust I have lost for my husband. I know he's worth the second chance to make this right as he has given me a second chance to make it right on my end.... but the damage has been done.. it can't be undone and these feeling can't be erased.
> 
> This is what I would love all men freshly going into a marriage to realize that is if you can't work out the sexually issues by talking and compromising, don't turn to porn in silence and hide it from your wife cause your doing more damage than good.. I would rather have set my husband free to find someone that could meets his needs if I couldn't have met them back then, than have to deal with the mess of his 13 year long off and on porn use he hid from me. He never gave me that choice to decide for myself..


This is lovely that you are making such a great effort, and your husband is lucky to have you. I just want to point one thing out to you. I know most men would not equate sex and porn as the same thing. For most men, porn is really nothing at all like sex. That doesn't mean there can't be issues with it. Yes of course but you shouldn't think you are competing with his porn usage because they really aren't the same thing. @Anon Pink 's post on this is spot on in this regard. 

However hiding it is not a good thing, and I can understand why you are upset about it.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

peacem said:


> I am here to testify that feeling does go away as long as you keep working at it.
> 
> One thing that some men do not always understand it that it can make us suddenly feel unattractive and unsexy (which doesn't help when you are a mother to small children). This puts us off sex which creates a viscous circle.
> 
> ...


That's nice to hear from someone who has been through this. For the longest time I felt so alone with no one to talk to. I hope someday I can get to where you are, but I don't know if I'm ever going to be okay with the porn and this scares me going on. If my husband starts to need more than me I don't know what I would do if he starting using again. I hope these feeling will fade in the future 

Sent from my D2206 using Tapatalk


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Daisy12 said:


> Thanks @WorkingOnMe After reading so many post of here of men that stay with their wife when they are unhappy with the sex and many other things and because of this they put little into the marriage really gave me a wake up call. I want my husband to wake up every morning happy that I'm his wife. I want him to be satisfied and have his need met at home so he wouldn't even dream of looking else where. I get great pleasure out of doing this for my husband as I enjoy it, he in returns would do anything I ask for him... He would turn around and drive back to town for anything I asked for even if he was 5 minutes from home and town is 20 minutes away. He makes our children a top priority which is important to me. He makes me a top priority in his life...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Maybe it was more important that HE had the choice to decide for himself.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Maybe it was more important that HE had the choice to decide for himself.


He did have a choice.. I don't know why you think he didn't. He made his choice to lie to me instead of being honest about his needs 

Sent from my D2206 using Tapatalk


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@Daisy12 and @peacem

I think you two have a unique perspective, one that I don't fully understand because I haven't lived your lives so I'm asking.....having gone through what you did with your husbands, and knowing what you know now, would you be more or less likely to recommend to another woman to enter into or stay in a marriage with a man who watches porn often?

Also would you describe yourself as a patient person? 



Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Lila said:


> @Daisy12 and @peacem
> 
> I think you two have a unique perspective, one that I don't fully understand because I haven't lived your lives so I'm asking.....having gone through what you did with your husbands, and knowing what you know now, would you be more or less likely to recommend to another woman to enter into or stay in a marriage with a man who watches porn often?
> 
> ...


I am patient but I don't put up with things. I am fairly pragmatic.

To your other question it would all depend on the level of porn use and sexual compatibility and other things that are going on - its complicated, which is why some women are fine with porn and other aren't. Me and H are actually fairly well matched once we get our act together. When we were going through our difficult patch with porn sex was practically non existent and there were ED issues that complicated emotions on both sides. IMO as long as sex is good and he is honest about it - it shouldn't be a threat. When it takes over and other things are wrong within the marriage and you cannot talk to each other - it becomes a nightmare. When I first came to TAM I felt a bit victimized but now I see that I handled things really badly, made things worse, was ignorant, insecure and low self esteem. He was lazy and selfish and unable to communicate and withdrew when things get a bit tough. We both needed to grow up. So we have been working on our faults and now the porn seems irrelevant. There were much bigger issues for us to work on.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

peacem said:


> I am patient but I don't put up with things. I am fairly pragmatic.
> 
> 
> 
> To your other question it would all depend on the level of porn use and sexual compatibility and other things that are going on - its complicated, which is why some women are fine with porn and other aren't. Me and H are actually fairly well matched once we get our act together. When we were going through our difficult patch with porn sex was practically non existent and there were ED issues that complicated emotions on both sides. IMO as long as sex is good and he is honest about it - it shouldn't be a threat. When it takes over and other things are wrong within the marriage and you cannot talk to each other - it becomes a nightmare. When I first came to TAM I felt a bit victimized but now I see that I handled things really badly, made things worse, was ignorant, insecure and low self esteem. He was lazy and selfish and unable to communicate and withdrew when things get a bit tough. We both needed to grow up. So we have been working on our faults and now the porn seems irrelevant. There were much bigger issues for us to work on.




Was his ED due to loss of physical attraction or due to the porn?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Daisy12 said:


> That's nice to hear from someone who has been through this. For the longest time I felt so alone with no one to talk to. I hope someday I can get to where you are, but I don't know if I'm ever going to be okay with the porn and this scares me going on. If my husband starts to need more than me I don't know what I would do if he starting using again. I hope these feeling will fade in the future
> 
> Sent from my D2206 using Tapatalk


 @Daisy12 I once did a fantasy poll asking if people preferred to fantasize about their spouse. It got deleted because it violates the rules of polling fantasies. But after more than 100 people responded it became obvious that most men enjoy fantasizing about their wives. 

Porn is unrealistic and most men know that. Our wives are real. 

Regardless if things are problematic in the bedroom, a man may use porn to enhance his self gratification. Odds are he fantasizing about his wife, but just needs a visual aid to help guide that fantasy to imagine something new or novel. The PROBLEM occurs when a man can no longer masturbate without porn, and this is an indication of two things:



Porn has numbed and dumbed down his ability to fantasize.
He has overstimulated himself and can only enjoy things if he continues to overstimulate himself via extreme novelties.

Those are the two things that can cause serious harm to a man's sexuality in my opinion as well as cause serious problems in the bedroom. You want to encourage him to fantasize and become curious, but you want to discourage him from overstimulating himself. If you can talk openly with him about being mindful about those two things, then you should see the quality of things hopefully improve in the bedroom.

Hope that helps, 
Badsanta


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> Was his ED due to loss of physical attraction or due to the porn?


I don't think it was loss of attraction because viagra worked a treat. I think it was over masturbation and age. He had everything tested and was healthy in every other way. He has had NO issues since he stopped with porn (over 2 years ago), in fact in the holidays it is frequently twice a day. 

Its a mystery.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

Lila said:


> @Daisy12 and @peacem
> 
> I think you two have a unique perspective, one that I don't fully understand because I haven't lived your lives so I'm asking.....having gone through what you did with your husbands, and knowing what you know now, would you be more or less likely to recommend to another woman to enter into or stay in a marriage with a man who watches porn often?
> 
> ...



If I had found out about my husbands porn use early on in our marriage I would not have stayed. Being now that we are almost 20 years together and 4 children later things are much more complicated. I was completely happy in my marriage before I found all this out and for a brief moment I was ready to throw it all away but I love my husband and he loves me and he was willing to work on this so I felt like I owed him and my children at least my honest effort to make our marriage work.

If the woman has an issues with porn at all and I mean if she is honest with herself about what she can handle I would not recommend it. The pain I have felt in the last 7 months is something I never want to feel again.

I have moderate patience but I wouldn't say I am the most patient woman.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

Daisy12 said:


> He did have a choice.. I don't know why you think he didn't. He made his choice to lie to me instead of being honest about his needs
> 
> Sent from my D2206 using Tapatalk


Some of us are afraid to be honest about our needs because that will make things worse.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

@badsanta - what a shame that thread was deleted as these are the things we need to know when we are hurting. Some men are not good talking about such things and some women not good at hearing it.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

For myself, porn is a means to an end, nothing more. I would venture to guess quite a few men see it this way as well. 

We employ the right of first refusal method around our house. If her refusal is in play, she gets no say. Anything else is controlling behavior. Discretion is the better part of Valor. 

Sexual frequency will always default to the lower sex drive, even in compromise situations. Otherwise, it's duty sex (hell no!), or rape (double hell no!). 




Daisy12 said:


> If I had found out about my husbands porn use early on in our marriage I would not have stayed. Being now that we are almost 20 years together and 4 children later things are much more complicated. I was completely happy in my marriage before I found all this out and for a brief moment I was ready to throw it all away but I love my husband and he loves me and he was willing to work on this so I felt like I owed him and my children at least my honest effort to make our marriage work.
> 
> If the woman has an issues with porn at all and I mean if she is honest with herself about what she can handle I would not recommend it. The pain I have felt in the last 7 months is something I never want to feel again.
> 
> I have moderate patience but I wouldn't say I am the most patient woman.


I don't know about your circumstances, but your posts from an outside perspective are the definition of controlling behavior. I did get a particularly good chuckle out of the 6 month comment a couple pages back. It's easy to throw around the divorce ultimatum when the law is automatically on your side. 

We will have to agree to disagree.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

Windwalker said:


> For myself, porn is a means to an end, nothing more. I would venture to guess quite a few men see it this way as well.
> 
> We employ the right of first refusal method around our house. If her refusal is in play, she gets no say. Anything else is controlling behavior. Discretion is the better part of Valor.
> 
> ...



You see though I am not trying to be controlling, I am being honest with my husband that his porn use bother me so much that I can not live like that. I put the choice total in his hands and I know it's not fair as us divorcing is not something he wants and will hurt the kids but I know what I can live with and I can't change that. I offered to give him the house and walk away with pretty much nothing but joint custody as I am struggling with asking him to make this change, but I am who am and if I am not honest with myself with what I can handle this marriage will not work as eventually I will be resentful and end up leaving anyway. I fear everyday that he will end up resentful and I wonder everyday if I am doing him a disservice by staying.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Daisy12 said:


> You see though I am not trying to be controlling, I am being honest with my husband that his porn use bother me so much that I can not live like that. I put the choice total in his hands and I know it's not fair as us divorcing is not something he wants and will hurt the kids but I know what I can live with and I can't change that. I offered to give him the house and walk away with pretty much nothing but joint custody as I am struggling with asking him to make this change, but I am who am and if I am not honest with myself with what I can handle this marriage will not work as eventually I will be resentful and end up leaving anyway. I fear everyday that he will end up resentful and I wonder everyday if I am doing him a disservice by staying.


Bravo Daisy!!!! What you describe is called 'a boundary'. It's the opposite of controlling. You communicated your limits with your husband and then gave him the power to decide whether or not he wanted to respect those limits. You were willing to live with the consequences, good or bad, of HIS decision. That takes balls lady. Good for you. 

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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Lila said:


> Bravo Daisy!!!! What you describe is called 'a boundary'. It's the opposite of controlling. You communicated your limits with your husband and then gave him the power to decide whether or not he wanted to respect those limits. You were willing to live with the consequences, good or bad, of HIS decision. That takes balls lady. Good for you.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk




Even a boundary can be controlling.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> Even a boundary can be controlling.


Let's agree to disagree. 

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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Daisy12 said:


> You see though I am not trying to be controlling, I am being honest with my husband that his porn use bother me so much that I can not live like that. I put the choice total in his hands and I know it's not fair as us divorcing is not something he wants and will hurt the kids but I know what I can live with and I can't change that. I offered to give him the house and walk away with pretty much nothing but joint custody as I am struggling with asking him to make this change, but I am who am and if I am not honest with myself with what I can handle this marriage will not work as eventually I will be resentful and end up leaving anyway. I fear everyday that he will end up resentful and I wonder everyday if I am doing him a disservice by staying.




Have you tried individual counseling as to why this bothers you so much that you would destroy your family over it?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Controlling is a boundary imposed on a partner with no ability to object. If he was a house husband who couldn't afford to leave, it would be controlling. But you can't really "control" someone who has the ability to walk away. Just because they don't want to make the choice between competing boundaries doesn't mean they can't.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Have you tried individual counseling as to why this bothers you so much that you would destroy your family over it?


Ok. On one hand that does sound pretty messed up but on the other hand, Daisy told us she also realizes she needs to put out if she doesn't want her husband using porn all the time.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Controlling is a boundary imposed on a partner with no ability to object. If he was a house husband who couldn't afford to leave, it would be controlling. But you can't really "control" someone who has the ability to walk away. Just because they don't want to make the choice between competing boundaries doesn't mean they can't.




So I can tell my wife she needs to have sex with me every night or I leave. We have sufficient financial assets. That's a boundary, not controlling. 

I tell me wife she needs to quit smoking, which she had done before I met her. (Just like OP and porn). Otherwise I walk. Boundary. Not controlling. 

I like this new boundary thing. Makes it all her fault. 

Even better, wife has sex with me every night or I cheat. Sets a boundary. If she is unwilling to respect the boundary the consequences are her fault.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

blueinbr said:


> So I can tell me wife she needs to have sex with me every night or I leave. We have sufficient financial assets. That's a boundary, not controlling.
> 
> I tell me wife she needs to quit smoking, which she had done before I met her. (Just like OP and porn). Otherwise I walk. Boundary. Not controlling.
> 
> ...




Yep those are all boundaries equivalent to Daisy requiring her H to permanently avoid porn. 


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Yep those are all boundaries equivalent to Daisy requiring her H to permanently avoid porn.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




And Daisy has the stones to actually enforce her boundaries by leaving.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

There is not clear line between "boundaries" and "controlling". It all depends on how "reasonable" the boundaries are, and people will disagree. Most people think that a "boundary" of not allowing your spouse to have sex with other people is completely reasonable. Most think that a boundary of your spouse never talking to a member of the opposite sex is unreasonable and controlling. In-between is a lot of room.

To me boundaries are OK if:

1) They are clearly discussed very early in the relationship at a time when there is no problem with the other person leaving.

OR

2) They are so commonly held that a reasonable person would expect them: No cheating, no stealing, no hard drugs, etc.

Ideally anything else would be discussed early and agreed upon. Sadly though it often is not and people end up in a marriage with very different expectations of what is acceptable behavior. I think this is most frequently sex-related because many people are shy about discussing sex. 


I expect my wife thinks porn is unacceptable in a marriage, but does not think regular sex is required. Is that reasonable? I could have deduced both before we were married, but it didn't occur to me to view here behavior that way. 


I would suggest that anyone who is about to end a marriage over a boundary at least consider if that boundary really is important. Ending a marriage because of something intolerable is OK, but its not a good idea do end one because a boundary has been crossed if that boundary is no longer important. OTOH, if the marriage is bad already, then go ahead and end it.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Richard what you think of as your no sex boundary is more like a chalk line. Without enforcement it's not a boundary.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Talker67 said:


> not all people against porn are religious. Reasons a woman could be antiporn:
> a) fear of the devil


I would consider that one religious. >


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

tech-novelist said:


> I would consider that one religious. >




Reminds me of a sad fact. When The Exorcist came out a loooooooooong time ago, they surveyed people and found out a huge disparity in religious beliefs.

Unfortunately, the disparity was nonsensical - a very large percent of people believed in the devil but a minority believed in God.


Hmmmmm something does not compute. 

Yin to yang ratio is inexplicably off 


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

@Daisy12

The question of controlling behaviour comes up fairly regularly here on TAM and the bottom line is what one person would consider controlling in their relationship another person would see as reasonable.

For instance;
I take control of our family finances which some men would recoil in horror. But if I didn't do that, he would spend all our income half way through the month and then wonder why he is suddenly overdrawn. I can't live like that.

I am also a little controlling with his food intake and the types of food we eat and have in the kitchen. The context behind this is that his whole family are morbidly obese and have terrible eating habits and health problems. My husband would literally eat himself to death if he lived on his own - he has no stop button or common sense when it comes to junk food. He is overweight (but not obese) and it worries me as we have a disabled child that needs 2 parents to stay alive and healthy for as long as possible. I also do not want to be married to an obese man. 

The issue is those things eventually will effect me and my attraction to him. I have no time for people who are bad with money or do not make an effort to look after themselves. 

So, as some people here would call you controlling, I would say that it is responsible controlling behaviour. You are trying to fix your marriage for the well being of your family. You cannot do that if you are aware that he is still using porn to supplement his sexual needs. Some women who are not happy about porn may say, 'I am not happy about it but if you must do it discretely'. But this doesn't work for everyone because every time he is too tired for sex, or does not want to join in the family outing, or stays up late and is tired at work the next day - it makes you feel like a failure and you lose respect for him. 

You are working on your sex life alongside these boundaries. This all sounds healthy to me. One thing I would say that it is really important for you to forgive him and move on. He will feel a lot of shame around what has happened between you and its important to make him feel good about himself again. Maybe you could woo him back to you. Shower him with affection and affirmation that you still love him regardless of past hurt. If he feels he is still being judged for porn then he is more likely to go back to it in the near future; someone on TAM once said to me that if he gets accused of something he hasn't done he is more likely to act it out. Wise words.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Have you tried individual counseling as to why this bothers you so much that you would destroy your family over it?


Yes I have been to IC. I am not trying to destroy my marriage I am trying to find a way were we all can live happily. 

When I found out about my husbands porn use 5 years ago I was unaware he was unhappy because he never said anything to me. He told me then that he would stop and I increase our sex life. The next 5 years were great I was truly happy and our marriage was strong. When I found out again about the porn 7 months ago I was crushed. I felt like I was never going to be enough. My husband told me he stopped for a long time but then it started again after the birth of our 4th child. He said he only used porn to aid masturbating to make it quicker and he always preferred to have sex with me but felt guilty about asking me for sex when he knew I was tired or for fear of rejection. He felt it was easier to turn to porn as he knew it was a sure thing. Complete lack of communication on his part. He felt like if he asked for what he really wanted I would think he was a freak.

We have really talked this time. I told him how the porn has made me feel, that it pushes me away from him not closer to him. I ensured him that I am not going think he is a freak for asking for what he wants. We got totally honest and raw with each other and have talked and fixed problems that should have been fixed years ago. It has been the hardest 7 months of my life, I have never cried so much but I gave him my complete commitment to making it right as long as he committed to working on his end. I have told him he needs to tell me when things are not working, as I will him. if he's not happy and being silent about it and turns to porn, I will leave. If he's not happy and telling me and we can't seem to fix it without porn, well that's a bridge I will cross when I get there. I don't want to destroy my family over porn, but I'm not going to destroy myself over his addiction. 

I am asking him to turn all his sexually energy to me. I want to fulfill him sexually, I want and enjoy doing all the things he has now asked and told me he needs. I have made myself available 100% of the time and I am not just giving him duty sex. I thought our marriage was great the last 5 years, but the connection I have created with my husband these last 7 months have made our relationship stronger than ever.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

toblerone said:


> Ok. On one hand that does sound pretty messed up but on the other hand, Daisy told us she also realizes she needs to put out if she doesn't want her husband using porn all the time.


I have struggled personally with my decision on telling my husband I don't want him looking at porn. I don't want to control my husband, but my husband is not a push over and I know I could not control him if I tried. If he didn't want to do this he wouldn't. I have not threatened him with taking him for all he's worth or he is never going to see the kids again, it's the complete opposite. I know that I am the one that wont accept the porn so I told him that I would leave, he could have the house and we would amicably share custody of our children. I would never tell my girls why as I would not want them to lose respect for their father. He is a good man.

When I have brought these concerns to my husband about feeling like controlling him and that I didn't want him to resent me later on in life he responded to me with this, "Are you kidding? Why would I resent you for helping me become a better husband, father and person? I wish I made these changes many years ago and am grateful you put up with my ass for so long! You are such an amazing person, woman, wife and mother! We are blessed to have you in our lives!"


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Daisy12 said:


> Yes I have been to IC. I am not trying to destroy my marriage I am trying to find a way were we all can live happily.
> 
> 
> I am asking him to turn all his sexually energy to me. I want to fulfill him sexually, I want and enjoy doing all the things he has now asked and told me he needs. I have made myself available 100% of the time and I am not just giving him duty sex. I thought our marriage was great the last 5 years, but the connection I have created with my husband these last 7 months have made our relationship stronger than ever.


You don't have to justify yourself anymore than that last paragraph. You are a good wife.

Just something to think about (not telling you what to do). At some point you may want to consider getting rid of the filters. Internet filters are a really good idea whilst you deal with your issues without 'distractions'- but in the long run you are not creating situations to rebuild trust. And of course if he wanted to go back to porn there are plenty of ways to get around it for a half intelligent person. If things are really good between you chances are porn will seem lame to him and he will become fascinated with his *new* wife who wants to explore with him and get creative. If you are both really into each other you won't even care because you are getting the lions share of attention. There is nothing more healing than porn just being a click away and he chooses to spend time with you instead :smile2:. Hope that makes sense.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

uhtred said:


> .
> 
> 
> I expect my wife thinks porn is unacceptable in a marriage, but does not think regular sex is required. Is that reasonable?


IMO, no it's not reasonable. If a wife wants her husband to not look at porn than she better be prepared to meet those needs that porn fulfills, within reason.. I don't think it's fair for a husband to ask his wife to do things she truly finds distasteful, like example a threesome.. but I would imagine if your husband truly loved you he would not want you to do something you were not comfortable with, am I right guys? My husband has told me over again that he doesn't want me to say yes if my answer is really no just to please him.

I think if your wife is pretty well uncomfortable with everything you want than you may just have a mismatched relationship, but then you need to decide if you can live with it and if not leave. Don't do something you both agreed you wouldn't do and lie about it.. That's not a healthy marriage IMO


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Daisy12 said:


> I am asking him to turn all his sexually energy to me. I want to fulfill him sexually, I want and enjoy doing all the things he has now asked and told me he needs. I have made myself available 100% of the time and I am not just giving him duty sex. I thought our marriage was great the last 5 years, but the connection I have created with my husband these last 7 months have made our relationship stronger than ever.


you must have said someting in the past, or made some seemingly innocuous comments recently that suggest to him that you are NOT the kinky sex kitten he hoped you would be, and is afraid to ask you for what he really wants. Sorry, i think he is STILL not communicating. 

How about look at what sorts of PORN he was watching, and do those *exact* sex acts for him? You can find his internet cache history to show you the pages he was watching. Or ask to sit and watch the porn that he likes to see with him sitting next to you.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

peacem said:


> @badsanta - what a shame that thread was deleted as these are the things we need to know when we are hurting. Some men are not good talking about such things and some women not good at hearing it.


Unfortunately my thread on polling if you fantasize about your spouse or not revealed (at least on TAM) that women do not prefer to fantasize about their husbands. The results were polar opposite depending on gender. 

*It is my personal opinion that this is the result of porn, in that men watch too much and do not care to fantasize about other women because they have seen all of them (porn can leave one feeling that way), and then the idea of having something 'real' becomes the fantasy, such as your wife. *

Meanwhile it is generally understood that women do not watch as much porn as men as they are more interested in 'context' and therefor gravitate towards books such as 50 Shades. Then the fantasy is more about a 'mystery' man. Women on the poll claimed that because it generally takes more to get aroused than compared to a male, that she just needs to think of something a little more exotic to get herself going. And all the women claimed the men were lying about really fantasizing about their own wife. 

The poll was problematic at best and probably did need to be deleted.

Badsanta


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

blueinbr said:


> Have you tried individual counseling as to why this bothers you so much that you would destroy your family over it?


Maybe he should get counseling to find out why he's willing to destroy his family over porn.

I mean, if it's not such a big deal and it bothers his wife what's the problem? Why not just stop?

All choices have consequences and things that bother you spouse should bother you. I make choices that consider what bothers my hb all the time. 

I see men advised to destroy their families all the time here when he's not getting the sex he wants. How's that different?

He can watch what he wants but his wife isnt obligated to put up with it. We all have our boundaries.....marriage isn't a free for all.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

peacem said:


> You don't have to justify yourself anymore than that last paragraph. You are a good wife.
> 
> Just something to think about (not telling you what to do). At some point you may want to consider getting rid of the filters. Internet filters are a really good idea whilst you deal with your issues without 'distractions'- but in the long run you are not creating situations to rebuild trust. And of course if he wanted to go back to porn there are plenty of ways to get around it for a half intelligent person. If things are really good between you chances are porn will seem lame to him and he will become fascinated with his *new* wife who wants to explore with him and get creative. If you are both really into each other you won't even care because you are getting the lions share of attention. There is nothing more healing than porn just being a click away and he chooses to spend time with you instead :smile2:. Hope that makes sense.


This is where I want to be eventually and I am working hard to get there, but I'm not there yet. It's still too fresh and we are still working on our marriage and learning about each other. I really hope I get there someday.. We have a great life and a wonderful marriage but I have to be able to look myself in the eyes and more importantly I have to be able to look my husband in the eyes and trust and respect him. I don't stay with my husband because I need him financially or to be my live in babysitter, I could take care of myself and my children alone if I had to. I stay with him and do this hard work on myself and require he works on himself because I love him and I know he is worth the effort on my part and I believe I am worth the effort on his part.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Daisy12 said:


> If a couple Is using porn together to spice up their marriage than I don't see a problem. If one spouse is using it without the other one than I have to question why. I believe a marriage is successful with how well you can meet your spouses needs and how well they can meet yours. If you are HD and your Spouse LD and you tell them that they are not meeting your sexual needs and you are realistic with your expectations of what you want from them and they still tell you, no go masturbate to porn, than there is a problem in that marriage IMO.
> 
> I wish that my husband had of threatened to leave me or sit me down years ago when our sex life started to fail. Instead he stayed silent and resentful and turned away from me and to porn, lying and hiding it from me for years. I'm sure in his mind he was trying to be a good husband and keep the peace. I wish he had of gave me the choice or the chance to be what he needed me to be, because I would much rather my husband have sex with me than masturbate and use porn. He robbed me of that and has now left me with feeling of angry, which I own as it is my choice to be angry, but he has left me with distrust of him and a change of how I see him as a man, husband and father and that he has to own and live with as he chose to lie to me, even after he knew his use upset me.
> 
> ...


Here's the thing - for most people (not just guys), masturbation, with or without porn, is not sex. MOST people can separate the two entirely.

For me, I want sex with my partner not just because I want sex, period. It's connecting with her in a shared encounter. Being sexually aroused may be what brings me to her in the first place, but it's also about so much more.

Masturbation is simply, for lack of a better term, an itch that needs to be scratched, so you scratch it. It's like being hungry and grabbing an apple - it does the trick, took no effort, and the apple is gone in 3 minutes and you forget about it. It's something you do when you don't have the time or energy or even interest in spending the time and effort to make a nice meal for yourself (also not something most people do when it's just them). Most people don't want an apple for dinner.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

Talker67 said:


> you must have said someting in the past, or made some seemingly innocuous comments recently that suggest to him that you are NOT the kinky sex kitten he hoped you would be, and is afraid to ask you for what he really wants. Sorry, i think he is STILL not communicating.
> 
> How about look at what sorts of PORN he was watching, and do those *exact* sex acts for him? You can find his internet cache history to show you the pages he was watching. Or ask to sit and watch the porn that he likes to see with him sitting next to you.


I have watched the porn he was watching and its pretty tame and I have and will do all the things in those porn. I think it was an embarrassment issue for my husband why he would not talk to me about sex, maybe a hang up from the way he was raised. I probably didn't make myself open to those discussion as I was embarrassed to talk about sex as well.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

alexm said:


> Here's the thing - for most people (not just guys), masturbation, with or without porn, is not sex. MOST people can separate the two entirely.
> 
> For me, I want sex with my partner not just because I want sex, period. It's connecting with her in a shared encounter. Being sexually aroused may be what brings me to her in the first place, but it's also about so much more.
> 
> Masturbation is simply, for lack of a better term, an itch that needs to be scratched, so you scratch it. It's like being hungry and grabbing an apple - it does the trick, took no effort, and the apple is gone in 3 minutes and you forget about it. It's something you do when you don't have the time or energy or even interest in spending the time and effort to make a nice meal for yourself (also not something most people do when it's just them). Most people don't want an apple for dinner.


I can understand that people want to have the release without all the work at times and I don't tell my husband to not masturbate that would be hypocritical as I do myself. When I asked does he masturbate because he wants to do that or because he wants a "no work" release he told me it was the latter. I asked if he would prefer to give himself the "no work" release or could I do that for him he said he would definitely rather have me but feels selfish to ask for that when giving nothing I return. I told him stop feeling that way cause I am getting something in return, a happy husband. To my delight he has been asking me for this "No work" releases and I have been happy to give them to him.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

> badsanta said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunately my thread on polling if you fantasize about your spouse or not revealed (at least on TAM) that women do not prefer to fantasize about their husbands. The results were polar opposite depending on gender.
> ...


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Daisy12 said:


> You know it's true we don't have the energy to create a mind blowing experience for our husband every day, we are busy working, raising children and keeping a house on top of taking care of ourselves, keeping in shape..etc What I am saying that there has to be a compromise... maybe you would like crazy exciting sex everyday, but it's unfair and unrealistic to expect that from your wife everyday just like it unrealistic for your wife to expect you to go 3 weeks without sex. To say that if my wife won't give me that everyday I will just use porn seems childish. I don't understand why your wife does not arouse you? Do you not find her attractive anymore? Is there a point in a man's life that you need way more visual/mental stimulation to get aroused? I don't have to do much to get my husbands attention and he enjoys our vanilla sex just as much as our crazy sex. *I can arouse him with just a few suggestive texts during the day or a naughty note taped the to bathroom mirror before I leave for work.* He is relatively still young though so maybe as he ages it will require more time and attention to get him there, which I am will happily do.


The bolded above is likely a huge reason why you get his attention and he doesn't require porn/masturbation. Because he's getting that element of feeling desired from you, which is something that is often missing in many marriages, unfortunately. Men are simple creatures at the end of the day. He has a partner who makes an effort for him.

This is a far cry from OP's wife, or my ex wife, who hated porn (and to a lesser degree, masturbation period) and who did none of that to offset those 'rules'. I, like almost all men (or women, for that matter) would have absolutely no problem respecting those rules if this were the case.

I liken my ex wife's 'no porn' rule to her stating 'you can't eat without me, ever' and then she'd skip dinner 5 nights out of 7, therefore I can't eat, either.

You do it right, and that's respectable. If my partner flat-out said 'no porn', yet offset that by making it so I didn't 'need' to watch porn - fine by me. But that's simply not the case more often than not. My ex wife said "no porn" but sex was completely on her schedule, when she wanted, with gaps of 5, 6, 7+ days in between anything. She would also shame me if she knew I masturbated, or god forbid, caught me. She wouldn't make a big deal of it, but she wasn't exactly positive about it, either. Nor did she ever join in, or finish the job, or anything like that.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

alexm said:


> The bolded above is likely a huge reason why you get his attention and he doesn't require porn/masturbation. Because he's getting that element of feeling desired from you, which is something that is often missing in many marriages, unfortunately. Men are simple creatures at the end of the day. He has a partner who makes an effort for him.
> 
> This is a far cry from OP's wife, or my ex wife, who hated porn (and to a lesser degree, masturbation period) and who did none of that to offset those 'rules'. I, like almost all men (or women, for that matter) would have absolutely no problem respecting those rules if this were the case.
> 
> ...



I absolutely do not agree with expecting my husband or any man to have no sex or very little and not masturbate or watch porn. That's cruel. I would never judge or shame any man because he uses porn for this reason, but my husband is not without as we have sex at least 5 days a week and I make a great effort to make it sexy and exciting, so if he starting using porn again while I'm putting all this effort into our sex life he has a bigger problem than I imagined.

I view this as it would be no different than if he had a problem with alcohol. I would require him to not drink as I would not be married to or raise my children with an alcoholic, but I wouldn't say, you can't drink but I can. I would stop drinking myself to support my husband.. if he made the commitment to stop drinking I would make the commitment to help him anyway I could. That to me is what marriage is about.

I post on here cause if one wife reads this and realizes she has the power to stop the porn but she needs to change and understand how men need and view sex and instead of rejecting it, embrace it and change I feel like maybe I have helped improve a marriage. Maybe she wont feel alone as I have dealing with this issue..


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

So... I would love it if my W were as adventurous and interested in sex as me. But she isn't and never will be.

That's ok because we are 2 independent people with strengths and weaknesses.

So porn is just a "thing" in my life like leggings are in some people's lives... or coffee, netflix, beer, wine. It has no objective goodness or badness.

Our relationship is enhanced through it as well.

Ain't no big thing


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

@peacem

If you don't mind me asking, how long was It before you felt comfortable enough to take the filters off the computers?


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

@Daisy12 I think it was about six months.

But important to note that - we were having sex almost daily and we had both worked on our issues and fully understood what had gone wrong (therefore not making the same mistakes over). 

I am not 100% sure that he is not watching porn, but chances are he isn't. He becomes very withdrawn from me when he does. These days I am finding it much better to 'read' him rather than be checking his stuff all the time. If he starts to wander away from me I bring him back in a loving way. 

Something I needed to do was learn not to care so much. I don't want to go out in the evening and be preoccupied with what my H is doing without me. As I am now - as long as he sleeps with me in the same bed, we have good sex several times a week and he treats me as though he is genuinely attracted to me (i.e he woos me) - I don't get those feelings of 'care' anymore. I think the reason it hurt me so much is because deep down I didn't believe he thought I was attractive as I got older. Now I know he does find me very attractive and he prefers having sex with me over porn, it stops being a threat. I remember some unhelpful member of TAM (I think it was a troll) told me that I cannot 'compete with porn. Don't even try.' to which I was disheartened. How I see it now, in all honesty, is that porn cannot compete with me. It seems fairly lame compared to what we have now, it just took us a while to get it right. For months there was some trial and error in finding out what we both wanted - and then we clicked!

So I recommend when you are both happy (blissfully happy and in love, like when you first met) and you trust that YOU are his number 1 woman - then turn the filters off and see what happens. Hopefully he will have learned that the good stuff is right in front of him and the trust between you will grow (he will trust you to be there for him when he is horny and you will trust he will turn to you not the computer). Otherwise the hurt never goes away.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

peacem said:


> @Daisy12 How I see it now, in all honesty, is that porn cannot compete with me. It seems fairly lame compared to what we have now, it just took us a while to get it right. For months there was some trial and error in finding out what we both wanted - and then we clicked!


I have always found this to be true. A rocking sex life makes porn seem totally lame, to both partners. I mean it can still be a fun, sexy side filler for the couple...but when you can be watching porn together knowing that the sex you are about to have is going to be 100 times hotter than whatever you are watching on the screen, it is a very empowering and delicious feeling.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

alexm said:


> You do it right, and that's respectable. If my partner flat-out said 'no porn', yet offset that by making it so I didn't 'need' to watch porn - fine by me. But that's simply not the case more often than not. My ex wife said "no porn" but sex was completely on her schedule, when she wanted, with gaps of 5, 6, 7+ days in between anything. She would also shame me if she knew I masturbated, or god forbid, caught me. She wouldn't make a big deal of it, but she wasn't exactly positive about it, either. Nor did she ever join in, or finish the job, or anything like that.


My ex and I had a great arrangement that worked well for us both. We did not masturbate or watch porn, unless together. We saved all of our sexual releases for each other. We also did not have to spend any extended time away from each other so this would not have worked as well if one of us had to travel for work a lot or something. We were able to be sexual with each other on a daily basis if we wanted to. We never felt "deprived" of porn or masturbation because we could still do those things any time we wanted to, together. So if one of us felt like just getting off and not putting in the effort to have sex, we could go to the other and get a hand job or other types of assist from them (both of us always happy and willing to do this). And sometimes this would be so hot that it would turn into sex anyway. If one of us felt like watching some porn, we would work it in together in the evening as a prelude to sex or sometimes mutual MBing.

Part of why we came to this arrangement was that my ex didn't really want me off watching porn by myself any more than I wanted him to be doing that. We both knew that porn is a slippery slope, for us as individuals anyway, that would actually make us less sexually healthy. I know it is not a problem for many people...but for us, we were both self aware enough to recognize the tendency to develop a reliance on the visual stimulation, and if that goes too far then real life sex begins to lose its luster. This does not feel healthy to either of us, whereas rocking hot sex ALWAYS feels healthy to us. And it isn't the porn that is "doing this" to us, it is purely a choice we can make. Either watch it in moderation and stay healthy, or watch too much of it and become less healthy. We chose healthy.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> We did not masturbate or watch porn, unless together.


 @Faithful Wife sometimes desire needs a little distance and privacy. This is why most men design hidden masterbatoriums in almost all homes built since the 1700s!



















Odds are you home has one, but you'll have to ask your builder how to access it as it is an unspoken rule that only husbands know about these spots.

Badsanta


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

badsanta said:


> @Faithful Wife sometimes desire needs a little distance and privacy. This is why most men design hidden masterbatoriums in almost all homes built since the 1700s!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But @badsanta you are disregarding one of your own sexual ideas. Tease and denial. We denied ourselves MBing, and porn, and therefore when we did so together, it was so hot it made our blood boil. 

This is something that many guys have challenged me on (here at TAM) before. "All men masturbate" blah blah blah.

The thing is, we were both so dedicated to this sexual tension game we had going on constantly, it was literally our kink to deny ourselves any other outlet. It made us horny to even talk about how we would have to save all our focus for each other. Sometimes he would "punish" me with some spankings because he would just randomly accuse me of MBing without him and he would say things like "yeah you're so f*cking hot you just couldn't keep your hands off yourself for 5 damn minutes and wait for me to get home could you, you dirty girl", all the while tickling me, holding me down, spankings, etc. In reality, he knew I had not MB'd but he was also showing me the punishment I'd get if I did.

Actually masturbating was a complete bore for both of us compared to the ways we would take care of each other.

We'd play a game where I had a Sugar Shack that he came to for happy endings. I'd set the room all up like a massage table with towels, oils, aromatherapy, whatever. Sometimes I'd throw on a wig, too! Then I'd call him in for his appointment. All this just because he wanted to get off in a nice, relaxing way.

Now of course if either of us actually did MB on the side, there was no harm done by it....but I know we rarely, rarely did. It was just too damn much fun to take our needs to each other.


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## SteelyPhil (Jun 9, 2016)

Hi everyone,

I apologize for not replying over the past few days, its been busy running around doing a bunch of stuff due to the holiday's. Thank you for all of the advice, tips, and suggestions, I really appreciate you taking the time out and posting them. The past week has been tough, my wife and I are just trying to be amicable right now due to the holiday's. It's not a good time, I'm sure it never is, to not feel in love with your spouse, be arguing together and thinking about a divorce right around Christmas, it sucks. For the next few days I'm just going to focus on spending time with family and enjoying those moments with them.

My wife and I have tried talking a few times about what we need to do to move forward over the past few weeks and I just feel exhausted about the whole topic. When I talk to her I struggle to come up with suggestions to move forward other then we need to be kinder to one another. When I look at my wife I have a very hard time not thinking about all of the recent and old terrible things she's said to me over the years. She's apologized for how she fooled me into answering her question about watching porn but that's happened in the past and I now think to myself "she will do it again".


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> But @badsanta you are disregarding one of your own sexual ideas. Tease and denial. We denied ourselves MBing, and porn, and therefore when we did so together, it was so hot it made our blood boil.
> 
> This is something that many guys have challenged me on (here at TAM) before. "All men masturbate" blah blah blah.


This comment hits home. My wife would definitely want me to MB less, but I have never really tried doing it "with" her. The few times I have asked she has seemed annoyed by the topic, BUT I have never tried it to see if she will respond well. The few times I have hinted at it in the bedroom while she is aware, she will grab my hand and yank it away telling me to stop (not in an angry way). Then she may give me a few caresses but then say, "that is enough for you, go to bed!"

Anyway, perhaps I will revisit this one... Perhaps the OP may wish to try this one as well. BUT I will admit it is very challenging and awkward with a wife that does not have as strong of an appetite as her husband. 

Badsanta


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> My ex and I had a great arrangement that worked well for us both. We did not masturbate or watch porn, unless together. We saved all of our sexual releases for each other. We also did not have to spend any extended time away from each other so this would not have worked as well if one of us had to travel for work a lot or something. We were able to be sexual with each other on a daily basis if we wanted to. We never felt "deprived" of porn or masturbation because we could still do those things any time we wanted to, together. So if one of us felt like just getting off and not putting in the effort to have sex, we could go to the other and get a hand job or other types of assist from them (both of us always happy and willing to do this). And sometimes this would be so hot that it would turn into sex anyway. If one of us felt like watching some porn, we would work it in together in the evening as a prelude to sex or sometimes mutual MBing.


I don't think it is a solution to the problem as such but just another way to have 'sex' together. 
I don't think this would work for most couples where the husband has a higher drive than wife. The last thing the LD wife will want is someone jerking off next to her. It will just irritate the hell out of her. It's not like the wife is actually horny but is holding back doing it with her husband. She is NOT horny and anything sexual will cause her a massive irritation.

The most effective solution to the LD and HD problem is, guess what: porn. Provided it is used in a 'responsible' way. I have learned new things on this site: that some can actually become addicted to it. This seems to be the case with a few and if the marriage starts to suffer because husband prefers silicone boobs over real life, then obviously it is not a good solution. But in those cases, I am also not sure that porn is THE source of the problem. (Addiction to porn is a symptom of a deeper problem, but this is not for this thread).

In any case, judging from the OP's first post, I think it is totally ridiculous for her to react that way. Masturbation to porn (in a responsible manner) is a perfectly healthy and one of the less harmful ways to overcome HD vs LD situation between couples.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Actually there is a better solution: once in a while when you do stuff together, film yourselves. Next time you are not getting any, watch that.
I found it works better for me than porn. Because you can remember what things felt like much more vividly and there's nothing much to relate to in porn anyway (it also becomes the same after a while). 
Ultimately, you should be desiring sex with your wife over porn in the first place.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

inmyprime said:


> Actually there is a better solution: once in a while when you do stuff together, film yourselves. Next time you are not getting any, watch that.
> 
> I found it works better for me than porn. Because you can remember what things felt like much more vividly and there's nothing much to relate to in porn anyway (it also becomes the same after a while).
> 
> Ultimately, you should be desiring sex with your wife over porn in the first place.




Just don't upload it to the internet after you get divorced. That is now illegal.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Just don't upload it to the internet after you get divorced. That is now illegal.


Is it ok to upload it before divorce then? :wink2:

But seriously: care needs to be taken to keep it safe. Keeping it on the computer (or phone) is NOT safe.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Just catching up with other messages in this thread:

the religious vs non-religious incompatibility might actually cause more trouble in the long-term, especially when it comes to bringing up (and not brainwashing) kids. Although it is not unheard of bringing up children in mixed families (I mean with mixed views).

Her screaming & shouting a lot could be PMS stuff (especially throwing plates). Does it happen with some kind of regularity rather than every day? Have you tried having sex (or watching porn*  in the midst of it? Sometimes it can be amazing.
But sometimes totally inappropriate...I guess half the fun is to judge when it's right. Otherwise you might get another plate thrown at you (been there).

*this is a joke

I think only you will be able to tell whether you can stay with this woman. If the good bits outweigh the bad bits for example or how much the bad bits bother you...It's always a compromise anyway and people learn to behave, respect and nurture each other over the years as well. Other couples don't and problems get worse and unbearable so generic advice not possible.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

peacem said:


> What took me a long time to get my head around is that men more often than not still prefer actual sex with the person they love. Porn is a very different way of exploring sexuality to that with a spouse. Something I did (that isn't going to be right for everyone) is I explored the porn sites that he used and I worked out for myself (because I didn't trust he words) that it was sometimes silly or lame, sometimes highly erotic (not sleazy), but most importantly the women were not what I thought (i.e ordinary, all shapes and sizes, some attractive, some not at all). I finally got that it was about watching a erotic sex act and becoming aroused *to make masturbation quick.* No real competition to me as long as he has regular sex with me. I could see it from his point of view.


EXACTLY! There is absolutely no competition, no comparison and it's not even a decent substitute to sex with your spouse. It should NOT be a threat. I cannot speak for all men but it NEVER EVER crosses my mind that I want or imagine having sex with the woman/women on the screen! I think it is more about imagining how the act might feel like *to the person who is getting it* (but NOT imagining being that person) in order to quickly finish the pathetic act of masturbation as quickly as possible. The proof is very simple: I would ALWAYS chose sex with my wife over porn, many times over. Always.
I have a feeling many misunderstandings happen precisely because it is not really possible for many women to relate to this (perhaps too primitive?) mindset.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Daisy12 said:


> My husband told me he stopped for a long time but then it started again after the birth of our 4th child. He said he only used porn to aid masturbating to make it quicker and he always preferred to have sex with me but felt guilty about asking me for sex when he knew I was tired or for fear of rejection. He felt it was easier to turn to porn as he knew it was a sure thing. Complete lack of communication on his part. He felt like if he asked for what he really wanted I would think he was a freak.
> 
> We have really talked this time. I told him how the porn has made me feel, that it pushes me away from him not closer to him. I ensured him that I am not going think he is a freak for asking for what he wants. We got totally honest and raw with each other and have talked and fixed problems that should have been fixed years ago. It has been the hardest 7 months of my life, I have never cried so much but I gave him my complete commitment to making it right as long as he committed to working on his end. I have told him he needs to tell me when things are not working, as I will him. if he's not happy and being silent about it and turns to porn, I will leave. If he's not happy and telling me and we can't seem to fix it without porn, well that's a bridge I will cross when I get there. I don't want to destroy my family over porn, but I'm not going to destroy myself over his addiction.
> 
> I am asking him to turn all his sexually energy to me. I want to fulfill him sexually, I want and enjoy doing all the things he has now asked and told me he needs. I have made myself available 100% of the time and I am not just giving him duty sex. I thought our marriage was great the last 5 years, but the connection I have created with my husband these last 7 months have made our relationship stronger than ever.


His explanation makes 100% sense. If only some women knew how much physical rejection from spouse can hurt a man and how little porn actually means (and what it's for), this would be a non-issue 99% of the time for most couples.

My wife has to look after 3 young children she also works part time, turning to porn now and again instead of humping her leg whenever she is absolutely exhausted might be considered *considerate*!
However if you can keep up with his drive and have the time and energy, then there is no issue anymore.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Daisy12 said:


> I absolutely do not agree with expecting my husband or any man to have no sex or very little and not masturbate or watch porn. That's cruel. I would never judge or shame any man because he uses porn for this reason, but my husband is not without as we have sex at least 5 days a week and I make a great effort to make it sexy and exciting, so if he starting using porn again while I'm putting all this effort into our sex life he has a bigger problem than I imagined.
> 
> I view this as it would be no different than if he had a problem with alcohol. I would require him to not drink as I would not be married to or raise my children with an alcoholic, but I wouldn't say, you can't drink but I can. I would stop drinking myself to support my husband.. if he made the commitment to stop drinking I would make the commitment to help him anyway I could. That to me is what marriage is about.
> 
> I post on here cause if one wife reads this and realizes she has the power to stop the porn but she needs to change and understand how men need and view sex and instead of rejecting it, embrace it and change I feel like maybe I have helped improve a marriage. Maybe she wont feel alone as I have dealing with this issue..


It's nothing like a "problem with alcohol".
It's more like him having an itch and you are not allowing him to scratch it without asking your permission first or requiring him to always making sure that you are there to scratch it for him.

Your effort to help your husband is commendable. It would be interesting to know whether it stems from (what i think is) a general misunderstanding of what porn means to a man and the resulting fear and threat from potentially loosing your husband to porn or whether it is genuinely rooted in trying to meet his need because you care about *him*. If he is anything like me, he will be definitely better off with you always being there for him sexually. The only 'disadvantage' is that it might make you more tired after a while and perhaps even slightly resentful, once that fear wears off and things get back to reality.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Agreed if you have a partner who would not be horrified by the idea.



inmyprime said:


> Actually there is a better solution: once in a while when you do stuff together, film yourselves. Next time you are not getting any, watch that.
> I found it works better for me than porn. Because you can remember what things felt like much more vividly and there's nothing much to relate to in porn anyway (it also becomes the same after a while).
> Ultimately, you should be desiring sex with your wife over porn in the first place.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

uhtred said:


> Agreed if you have a partner who would not be horrified by the idea.


Horrified? Why on earth? Ideally, she would be flattered and perhaps it might even open up her exhibitionist side...
However in real life (in my life that is), parts of this act made her more horny and parts of it made her annoyed whenever I had to interrupt either to change the shot or look for that perfect angle (I like to maintain our high production values  in order to maximise orgasmic efficiency later on, when I am inadvertently back to solo).

One could start slowly. For example by just doing it in front of a mirror then doing it using a laptop cam and watching yourselves on screen while in the act and perhaps later record it.

I agree it can be abused if the couple breaks up later (I haven't thought about it actually). Good thing they now made it illegal! I am more concerned about getting the data stolen. This happened to a relative, who actually dated a public person for a short period but his laptop was stolen. The pics are still on some sites and it was all a bit of a scandal for her whole family...
Which goes to show the law can then only do so much.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

SteelyPhil said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I apologize for not replying over the past few days, its been busy running around doing a bunch of stuff due to the holiday's. Thank you for all of the advice, tips, and suggestions, I really appreciate you taking the time out and posting them. The past week has been tough, my wife and I are just trying to be amicable right now due to the holiday's. It's not a good time, I'm sure it never is, to not feel in love with your spouse, be arguing together and thinking about a divorce right around Christmas, it sucks. For the next few days I'm just going to focus on spending time with family and enjoying those moments with them.
> 
> My wife and I have tried talking a few times about what we need to do to move forward over the past few weeks and I just feel exhausted about the whole topic. When I talk to her I struggle to come up with suggestions to move forward other then we need to be kinder to one another. When I look at my wife I have a very hard time not thinking about all of the recent and old terrible things she's said to me over the years. She's apologized for how she fooled me into answering her question about watching porn but that's happened in the past and I now think to myself "she will do it again".


To be honest, from some of the bits & pieces from your posts (where you talk about travelling more etc), it seems to me that you are not sure whether you are ready to settle down or whether she is the right person to settle down with, for you. I may be completely off the mark but relationship dynamics are extremely complex and one always gets a tiny glimpse of the whole picture from a post (only representing one side of the story anyway).
She maybe feels she is loosing you and the control over you. The increased arguments may be a way for her trying to regain control (but she may not realize that it is in fact achieving the exact opposite).


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

"It is my personal opinion that this is the result of porn, in that men watch too much and do not care to fantasize about other women because they have seen all of them (porn can leave one feeling that way), and then the idea of having something 'real' becomes the fantasy, such as your wife."



peacem said:


> > I believe that - this is what my H has described. He thinks of a porn scene and puts me in there as that was way more arousing because its a bit deviant.
> 
> 
> Yeah, i am not too sure about this...Sounds a bit more like a lame excuse for getting 'busted'.
> ...


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> "It is my personal opinion that this is the result of porn, in that men watch too much and do not care to fantasize about other women because they have seen all of them (porn can leave one feeling that way), and then the idea of having something 'real' becomes the fantasy, such as your wife."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

peacem said:


> inmyprime said:
> 
> 
> > "It is my personal opinion that this is the result of porn, in that men watch too much and do not care to fantasize about other women because they have seen all of them (porn can leave one feeling that way), and then the idea of having something 'real' becomes the fantasy, such as your wife."
> ...


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> peacem said:
> 
> 
> > Of course the same doesn't apply to everyone and that porn usage can become a problem (I said this a few posts ago). I can only speak for myself, for all my male friends and most of my colleagues (who talk about it) and from what I read online so i deduce that there is majority of men where porn clearly fulfils a specific role (and it's usually related to LD and HD couple combo). But there will always be exceptions.
> ...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

"We are both HD...."

Well, that's the difference then (and not as common). My (generalised) comments were aimed at (over)reactions and worries of OP's wife and Daisy. So far, there is no reason to suspect that their husband's usage of porn deviates from the "usual" trajectory of how many men use porn.
If my wife had the same drive as me, I would have a hard time coming up with an excuse why I would need to watch any porn (perhaps curiosity factor? Like watching Youtube bloopers or kittens playing piano? much safer bet...). I think she would be pretty offended if I suggested that I drag her into the filth of a cheap pornographic flick with my imagination instead of living it out with her properly in real life.

"I understand the reason why he used porn - understanding was healing but I learned not to try and understand him by using strangers on the internet to explain it to me. Hope that makes sense." 

Completely. Only he will know the true reasons.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> "We are both HD...."
> 
> Well, that's the difference then (and not as common). My (generalised) comments were aimed at (over)reactions and worries of OP's wife and Daisy. So far, there is no reason to suspect that their husband's usage of porn deviates from the "usual" trajectory of how many men use porn.
> If my wife had the same drive as me, I would have a hard time coming up with an excuse why I would need to watch any porn (perhaps curiosity factor? Like watching Youtube bloopers or kittens playing piano? much safer bet...). I think she would be pretty offended if I suggested that I drag her into the filth of a cheap pornographic flick with my imagination instead of living it out with her properly in real life.
> ...


Just to understand the other side of the coin. 

As men watch porn for a variety of reasons, women also become offended or upset by it for various reasons.

#An LD woman may feel inadequate and guilty

#She may have body issues that are made worse by her H (the person who usually makes her feel safe and unconditionally lovable) and ogling 'perfect' bodied women. She feels betrayed.

#Some women have a hard time with aging and menopause - to think her H wants to look at young women can make that transition period more difficult to accept

#It may make her H turn from her (we see it all the time on TAM)

#He may change sexual habits that are unappealing to her

#She may have religious, moral or ethical values that makes her lose respect for her H

(These are not over reactions but just being human with faults, flaws and differing opinions)

Or she may be absolutely OK with porn. Many are.

The point is both partners need to get together and communicate each others needs and be compassionate to one another even if it makes no sense. Daisy's husband should acknowledge how it hurts her and makes her lose respect and she needs to be aware that his sexual needs are probably higher than she ever realised. Working on sex and communication is better than just putting up with something that hurts you.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Yes you are right of course. It's never black and white and there are many shades of grey (more than 50 for sure!). Since it's not possible to know the ins and outs (and ins again, pardon me) of each relationship, it's difficult to give advice. In any case, I thought I would just write down what goes on in my brain, in case it helps others not being too hard on themselves or their partners. And also because I got a little fed up reading so many posts poo-pooing porn. Sometimes it can be a marriage-saver actually, contrary to what many say. Anyway, communication and trust between partners are the most important things, as always.
All best and Happy Holidays.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

This is probably part of the split in this discussion. Many men are in relationships where they are very frequently turned down and so the resort to porn. 

It is wonderful that you haven't turned your husband down in 21 years. I haven't turned my wife down more than 3 times in 30 years. But I honestly can't remember the last time she didn't turn me down - its been years. So I use porn. 




peacem said:


> inmyprime said:
> 
> 
> > snip
> ...


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

> uhtred said:
> 
> 
> > This is probably part of the split in this discussion. Many men are in relationships where they are very frequently turned down and so the resort to porn.
> ...


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

peacem said:


> I don't want this to come across as a pity party, but there is something humiliating about being a woman in your 40's and your husband avoids you because he doesn't want to have sex.


If the woman has let herself go and she's packed on the weight then she just might need a reality check.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> But in those cases, I am also not sure that porn is THE source of the problem.


It could be that the porn keeps the problem going instead of resolving it. Why bother trying to coax the spouse when you can just MB instead?



inmyprime said:


> I cannot speak for all men but it NEVER EVER crosses my mind that I want or imagine having sex with the woman/women on the screen!


I do, sometimes.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

browser said:


> If the woman has let herself go and she's packed on the weight then she just might need a reality check.


But my husband turned from me when I was at my best - perfect weight. Now I am a little overweight he can't keep his hands and eyes off me. 

He has always been overweight.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

peacem said:


> But my husband turned from me when I was at my best - perfect weight. Now I am a little overweight he can't keep his hands and eyes off me.
> 
> 
> 
> He has always been overweight.




Maybe your definition of perfect weight and his definition of perfect weight are not the same. 

Maybe, since he is overweight, he no longer feels out of your league and with a confidence boast his desire for you has increased.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

toblerone said:


> It could be that the porn keeps the problem going instead of resolving it. Why bother trying to coax the spouse when you can just MB instead?
> 
> 
> 
> I do, sometimes.




It also depends on what kind of porn a person watches. I seldom watch porn but when I do i prefer the amateur girl next door type rather than the siliconed professional.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I completely agree that any sign of being turned down for porn would be very negative (humiliating? disrespectful? not sure what word to use). 

In some sense being turned down for sex in favor of something else is very painful. I don't know if it matters if the "something else" is porn, or a TV show. Its the idea that the person who loves you just doesn't care. 

There probably are women who object to porn and who turn their partners down and feel insecure - despite being regularly asked for sex. That really is a communication problem, but maybe a difficult one to fix. One problem with insecurity is that once it sets in, it can color everything one's partner does. 







peacem said:


> > I don't want this to come across as a pity party, but there is something humiliating about being a woman in your 40's and your husband avoids you because he doesn't want to have sex. There is something doubly humiliating when you find out he was MB to another woman earlier in the evening. It was very painful and like @Daisy12 and OPs wife I was getting to the point of leaving. The single thing that held me back was my son who needs us both. For my H knowing that I was seriously at the end of feeling this way (to the point of finding a home and having my own money) made him change and in turn I have changed too. (Christmas present to my H was a porn film and BJ as I am out of action so to speak :wink2. It doesn't threaten me anymore because 99% of the time he makes me feel like a million dollars, sexy and desired.
> >
> > *So I wonder...if the reason why some women are so against porn and at the same time turning their partners down for sex is because their insecurities are not being addressed in the context of a loving relationship. (Not you Uhtred as I know you are a good woo-er). Is the OP making his wife feel like No.1 sex goddess? * And it takes time to correct those feelings of inadequacy - it doesn't happen overnight.
> >
> > ...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> It also depends on what kind of porn a person watches. I seldom watch porn but when I do i prefer the amateur girl next door type rather than the siliconed professional.


Same here. Even the 'girl next door' is getting more boring by the day...There may be some statistics on what is the most watched category? (I think it was amateur porn, but I can't remember where I read it).


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

inmyprime said:


> I don't think it is a solution to the problem as such but just another way to have 'sex' together.
> I don't think this would work for most couples where the husband has a higher drive than wife. The last thing the LD wife will want is someone jerking off next to her. It will just irritate the hell out of her. It's not like the wife is actually horny but is holding back doing it with her husband. She is NOT horny and anything sexual will cause her a massive irritation.


Yes, I did not mean to imply that this was any sort of advice to other couples, especially not those in mismatched situations. I was just sharing my experience. My marriage was HD/HD and a definite great match, that's why our little game worked so well.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

inmyprime said:


> Same here. Even the 'girl next door' is getting more boring by the day...There may be some statistics on what is the most watched category? (I think it was amateur porn, but I can't remember where I read it).


There will be a new updated list for 2016 soon but....

https://www.bustle.com/articles/133897-these-were-the-most-popular-porn-searches-in-the-us-in-2015


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> There will be a new updated list for 2016 soon but....
> 
> https://www.bustle.com/articles/133897-these-were-the-most-popular-porn-searches-in-the-us-in-2015


"Mom", "Step Sister", "Step Mother", "MILF"...

There seems to be a recurring theme....if I only I knew what it was.

I guess end of December is a special time, it's time for family...


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

SteelyPhil said:


> *Whenever my wife and I have ever talked about divorce *I think we both just can't face the idea of us failing each other and our families. However, I know its not healthy to keep going on this way with these types of arguments.


So you and your wife have discussed divorce more than once? At all even? That's not healthy on it's own, even without this issue thrown in.

I personally would not like my husband watching porn, I would be hurt and disgusted. But I wouldn't playfully goad the truth out of him (about anything) and then go batsh!t crazy on him either. That was wrong of your wife.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> Maybe your definition of perfect weight and his definition of perfect weight are not the same.
> 
> Maybe, since he is overweight, he no longer feels out of your league and with a confidence boast his desire for you has increased.


...that's the only rational explanation.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> My ex and I had a great arrangement that worked well for us both. We did not masturbate or watch porn, unless together. We saved all of our sexual releases for each other.





badsanta said:


> This comment hits home. My wife would definitely want me to MB less, but I have never really tried doing it "with" her. The few times I have asked she has seemed annoyed by the topic, BUT I have never tried it to see if she will respond well. The few times I have hinted at it in the bedroom while she is aware, she will grab my hand and yank it away telling me to stop (not in an angry way). Then she may give me a few caresses but then say, "that is enough for you, go to bed!"
> 
> Anyway, perhaps I will revisit this one... Perhaps the OP may wish to try this one as well. BUT I will admit it is very challenging and awkward with a wife that does not have as strong of an appetite as her husband.
> 
> Badsanta


 @Faithful Wife to follow up on the conversation about me MB'ing _with_ my wife as opposed to that being done alone and/or with porn, here is how that conversation went...

She did not like the idea and said it would just be _too weird_ for her. We talked about it for a while and while these things and these were a few things that were discussed:



My wife claims to have virtually no need to masturbate because I am always available. 
She still feels that there are times where she needs space and she is not in the mood to be confronted with my desires for sex.
She is aware that I masturbate historically during times that she has rejected me. She wishes I would just be patient and not do it so that when we do have sex that it would be better. She claims to really be able to tell if I have recently masturbated when we have sex and that I come across as though, "I don't really need it as bad!"
She feels that if we did try that, that I would not be capable of just masturbating, that I would have to have more and that would make her feel pressured. 

My conclusion is that I have now let go of all my _shame_ over this topic, but I think she still can't overcome her _guilt_ that is associated this discussion. Meaning that if I did masturbate openly to share that experience with her in a positive way, that she would likely just end up feeling inadequate or unwanted. Otherwise she would argue in her mind that I should just be patient and just wait for her to be ready for sex again. 

Anyway, perhaps those dynamics will be helpful for the OP to read. 

Badsanta


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

BS, have you ever turned your wife down?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> BS, have you ever turned your wife down?


Historically when she would claim to not be in the mood but she would offer to just let me do "whatever I needed and get it over with," I would turn down that opportunity thinking it would be better to wait until she is ready. 

I later found out that when I turned down those opportunities that it was really making her feel rejected. 

Today we understand the dynamics of a one-sided experience much better, but she still enjoys being in full control of that versus me taking matters into my own hands!

Badsanta


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

badsanta said:


> Today we understand the dynamics of a one-sided experience much better, but *she still enjoys being in full control* of that versus me taking matters into my own hands!


The bolded is the only thing I see in your intimacy dynamic. It would frustrate the hell out of me.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> The bolded is the only thing I see in your intimacy dynamic. It would frustrate the hell out of me.


The frustration of "giving up control" can be rather exquisite. It has taken me years to build up my wife's confidence for her to be playful and assertive regarding this. Of course the end game is for me to loose control of her being in full control, and that is where frustration turns into sparks for both of us. 

I'm happy!


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

badsanta said:


> @Faithful Wife to follow up on the conversation about me MB'ing _with_ my wife as opposed to that being done alone and/or with porn, here is how that conversation went...
> 
> She did not like the idea and said it would just be _too weird_ for her. We talked about it for a while and while these things and these were a few things that were discussed:


Some time ago, we had an almost identical conversation. And wife's logic was almost identical too!.

_My wife claims to have virtually no need to masturbate because I am always available._ => check (same as my wife)
_She still feels that there are times where she needs space and she is not in the mood to be confronted with my desires for sex._ => check
_She is aware that I masturbate historically during times that she has rejected me. She wishes I would just be patient and not do it so that when we do have sex that it would be better. She claims to really be able to tell if I have recently masturbated when we have sex and that I come across as though, "I don't really need it as bad!"_ => yes, possible. While being in danger of overgeneralisation, what women sometimes don't take into account is that every time a man is horny and the wife flat out rejects him without an obvious reason, it leaves a tiny scar. A few times, maybe even many times, it won't matter but if it's regular, it will eventually become a constant pain & frustration. So either men have to change the way they feel about sexual rejection or women can provide a helping hand, once in a while...(I suspect the solution is a bit of both.)
_She feels that if we did try that, that I would not be capable of just masturbating, that I would have to have more and that would make her feel pressured._ => yep, because that's what usually happens...Men have terrible self control!

_"My conclusion is that I have now let go of all my shame over this topic, but I think she still can't overcome her guilt that is associated this discussion. Meaning that if I did masturbate openly to share that experience with her in a positive way, that she would likely just end up feeling inadequate or unwanted. Otherwise she would argue in her mind that I should just be patient and just wait for her to be ready for sex again. "_

There shouldn't be any shame in any case. However, and to be honest: I don't think there is anything much to be gained for either when "sharing" the experience which the woman doesn't particularly want to have at that time.

_"Historically when she would claim to not be in the mood but she would offer to just let me do "whatever I needed and get it over with," I would turn down that opportunity thinking it would be better to wait until she is ready."_

Same here. Pity sex is pathetic for everyone involved. Having said that, my wife managed to convince me that she actually likes to just "do me" once in a while (which I bought). Even if it's not sexual, there may be a chance that there is some value for her in doing something nice for her husband. There are times where I really would never expect her to strain herself unnecessary (if she's sick or too tired etc). I can usually tell as well.
I think dressing these things any other way encourages one partner pretend it to be something it is not.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

@badsanta and @inmyprime

I am curious. How would your wives respond to NO erection but bringing them to orgasm manually? i.e one sided sex.

The reason I ask is that I find this hugely satisfying and loving (in the same way many women are happy to do stand alone BJ). Perhaps getting your partners into the habit of it being happy with you doing this for them, in turn they may become comfortable with pleasing you when they are not in the mood. This is not duty, charity or pity sex - but developing a personal pleasure in simply seeing our partners climax where we do not require anything in return.

I think there may be some hidden trust issues with people who cannot accept or give in a one sided way - what do you think? (being used/duty sex)


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

I am not sure how she would respond actually as it never happened (giving her oral without erection), it will probably invite a lot of questions, unless I just came before. I imagine it would be very different if there was a problem and I had trouble with ED or anything else. Anything out of the ordinary will make her worry and think something was wrong or something is her fault. Maybe she is spoilt, but she expects it to be "bulging" as soon as she mentions the magic words "come upstairs" and "go get a towel" etc. And I can see she has got a happy smile whenever she pulls my trousers down, it springs up and almost "slaps" her in the face. I sometimes half-joke with her that she ought to take really good advantage of it as much as she can because soon, when I get older, she will have to "chew on a soft chewing gum" for hours before any signs of life. She then sometimes looks a bit worried.
When we were teenagers, I remember once coming from just _thinking_ about giving her oral. This was very weird and never happened again. Nowadays I can control it much better as well.

Having said that, what I sometimes find hot (and she does too it seems) is when I offer her oral and say that I only want to do her. She will need to see proof (erection) that it is an actual sacrifice for me... But 95% of the time she will reciprocate in the end (although a lot of the time I really don't expect her to; it makes me happy to know that she wants to use me purely for her own gratification sometimes). It's funny how this is so different from coming up to her for sex and being rejected where 99% of the time I would feel hurt. It must be something to do with fear of your wife not directing her sexuality towards your partner, rather than actual rejection.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

peacem said:


> @badsanta and @inmyprime
> *
> I am curious. How would your wives respond to NO erection* but bringing them to orgasm manually? i.e one sided sex.
> 
> ...



If there is an awkward problem I have, it would be "overactive erections" in response to just about anything my wife does. So in her mind this aspect of my personality frustrates her but has been gradually becoming more validating for her as I demonstrate patience.

Badsanta


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## wantshelp (Mar 10, 2016)

I think divorce is a good idea here. You two obviously have not been communicating effectively for a long time. You are not open with each other and don't trust each other, exemplified by her tricking you into being honest. She tricked you instead of wanting to know you more deeply and not judging you for what (we all understand on TAM) are normal sexual behaviors. 

And getting violent over that stuff. I'm tempted to suggest getting a restraining order before you file. She is out of line, out of control, and out of touch with reality.


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