# dont wish for something too much, you might get your wish



## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

Hi all, here is my story

Disclaimer: English is (obviousely) not my mothertongue so language wise this is probably not going to be a very decent post. Sorry for that.

I will try to give the cornerstones of our marriage and be a bit more specific with the parts that matter for the problems we are having.

- we (me and stbxw) are a couple since 1995, we where both 17 y.o. at the time and we went to the same class in high school. We have ever since considered ourselves to love each other very profoundly (lasting first big love, soul mates etc.blah.blah)

- My W had a medical problem starting from 1998 lasting to about 2002. It costed a lot of energy but we stayed together..and grew as a couple. Since, no such problems occurred anymore.

- we married in 2004 and our first child (son) was born soon after.

- we had a beautiful but also hard time (I studied at the university during the day and I worked the night shift in a bakery, to be able to feed our little family)

- 2008: I started a new (demanding) job and our second child (girl) was born.

- early 2010: I went through what I would like to call an early midlife-crisis. I thought not to love my wife anymore, not the way I was supposed to. I had an EA/PA during that time (of which my wife doesnt know anything). I even wished (secretly) that my W left me so that I could get out of the relationship without being the culprit. Eventually I left home to live in my parents apartment for roughly two months. I had told my wife that I didn't love her anymore, not in a way that she deserves to be loved by her husband. In all that time I knew that I was about to turn my live upside down but somehow I just didnt care, it was very strange and I was wondering alot about myself and how I behaved. It was like the small child in my head had taken over complete control and there was nothing I could do about it. It was like a tsunami of emotions running through my brain back and forth. This kind of behavior was very uncharacteristic for me, as I am a very rational and emotionally rock solid kind of person otherwise.

- mid 2010: At some point, I think that somewhere deep down I realized that the last chances to turn around hard and fix my live had come, I suddenly realized that what I thought was love for the OW was something else, something weird that had to do with my state of mind. All of a sudden I did not want to see the OW anymore, I couldnt stand her being near me it was over, completely and definitvely over. 

- fall 2010: I went back home. Strangely enough I didnt feel very guilty, I never apologized to my wife until recently. The love for my wife slowly started to florish again. A better time started. My family repopulated my plans for the future again.

- early 2012: I was working alot (a project had to be finalized, my wife knew of that and she seemed ok with it). An effect of me working long hours was that my W was often alone with our kids. Also when I finally got home I was tired and didnt gave her the time and care that she needed. I took her for granted, I did so for the last couple of years. I also neglegted her sexually. She was convinced that I didnt love her anymore (she only told me that after she left me). I was, however, not aware of those issues, I still thought that everything was fine and that we where on track to a healthy marriage again. 

-5 weeks ago: My wife told me that her feelings where gone, that she didn't love me anymore. I was completely taken by surprise. All of a sudden I realized how much I still love my wife, what I was about to lose. The first two weeks I was constantly crying it was so incredibly devastating. I told and showed my wive that I still love her. I spent as much time with her as possible. I wanted to proof how important she is to me. We had our moments we had some good conversations. She still is physically attracted to me, she told me and we also had sex twice.
I moved out after a week as I couldnt stand the situation any longer. My wife was very cold to me and it felt like she was not giving me an opportunity to fight for her. I was and I still am more than ready to fight and throw in everything, but at least I need to feel that she is not unconfortable with my attempts. 
Things are getting worse as it looks like my wife is kind of implementing a close to NC on me...wtf? 



Questions: 
- normally, if a woman would tell me that she doesnt want to be with me anymore, then I would immediately leave and try to forget her - or at least go silent for a while. But is that the right "strategy" if the reason for her to leave is me neglecting her? It seems odd. Can the poison be the cure?

- Usually I know exactly what my wife thinks..not this time. While she tells me that there is still hope to reconsile and she was really shocked when I told her that I would file divorce the moment that I had no more hope, she also sais that it would be best for me if I tried to get over her, not to hold to much hope? I also think, that generally she is not avare of the impact a divorce will have on both (and of course on the kids) our lives... (a bit like myself in my midlife-crisis)

Edit: I know very well that I deserve what happened, be assured that I learned my lesson.. the hard way...


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## ScottH454 (Jun 3, 2012)

While our stories aren't that similar your first question about strategy is what I'm trying to understand. I don't want to ignore or push her away if that's why she left in the first place. However that is what everyone on this forum will tell you to do. You wouldn't think it'd work an they said that's why they left, but once you really aren't there is when they realize you where there giving them more than they thought. That's what I'm doing an think it might work. Being desperate didn't get me far, only a month towards reconiling an then back to divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

I think that strategy is your best bet. It will also give both of you time to sort out exactly how you feel about each other and your marriage. It definitely sounds like your wife for one is confused if she is telling you she has hope that you will reconcile in one breath and that you need to get over her in another. Have you thought of marriage counselling?


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

Thank you both for your answers... it helps alot to get some feedback 



> I think that strategy is your best bet


probably you are right... especially given the fact that I made it very clear that I love her and that I want to work on our relationship... 


> It definitely sounds like your wife for one is confused if she is telling you she has hope that you will reconcile in one breath and that you need to get over her in another.


This is indeed my biggest problem, I have no idea (probably she hasnt either) what she wants. Of course, one of the first things that popped in my mind was MC but there are to problems with that, 
1. At the moment we kind of lack a basis for MC (she is not willing to work for the marriage, she (thinks that she) has no feelings left)
2. She says that it is too late for MC (while also saying that she cannot imagine us not to be together in the future and also saying that it is much to early to think about divorce)...I cant make any damn sense of her

It really crushes me how she seems to bin all that we had (and still have) just like this? Ironically enough, my past "midlife-crisis" is what provides some understanding for her, what keeps my hope alive, there definitively seem to be similarities.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

I would be checking cell phone records and putting a voice activated recorder (VAR) in her car. You don't find it odd that when you where cheating you said the same thing to her (I love you but not inlove). Id bet lunch that there is at least an EA going on.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

I know, an EA/PA would explain ALOT... its only that I am 99% sure she has nothing going on (minimal doubts are there however).... Still, I couldnt resist and I modified some of her browser to silently save passwords... However, I have modified the file but I did not replace the original file with it yet, I kind of have scruples to spy on my wife (especially if she didnt have a PA/EA).

As to me cheating, *technically speaking*, I was not, the PA started *after* I told her not to be in love anymore and after I left, we declared that our relation was "on hold" (we where given free so to speak). BTW, now this is also the case.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

I'd be very careful with the spying. Stay on the high road. Don't do anything morally questionable. 

As for MC. maybe you could try approaching as a way to 'wrap up' the marriage. You know, figuring out with the help of a professional what went wrong and working through your feelings so that both of you can move on stronger and not make the same mistakes in future relationships. It might be a way to get her to agree to go.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

Frostflower said:


> I'd be very careful with the spying. Stay on the high road. Don't do anything morally questionable.


Now that there is the seed of doubts in my head it will be very difficult... Ill do my best to "stay on the high road"....



> As for MC. maybe you could try approaching as a way to 'wrap up' the marriage. You know, figuring out with the help of a professional what went wrong and working through your feelings so that both of you can move on stronger and not make the same mistakes in future relationships. It might be a way to get her to agree to go.


I am pretty sure that I could make her to seek MC for that reason. But I think she would just do me a favor in coming and I cannot imagine that it could work if not both have at least a minimal interest in saving the marriage...

BTW: How am I supposed to implement a NC/180 if kids are involved?


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> Now that there is the seed of doubts in my head it will be very difficult... Ill do my best to "stay on the high road"....
> 
> 
> I am pretty sure that I could make her to seek MC for that reason. But I think she would just do me a favor in coming and I cannot imagine that it could work if not both have at least a minimal interest in saving the marriage...
> ...


Greater minds than mine will have to answer that one. My kids are older, so it wouldn't apply to my situation.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

> Greater minds than mine will have to answer that one.


that must be some kind of a standard problem in applying 180s or NCs, isnt it?


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

update: As I found out by accident, my stbxw mentioned to a (female) friend of her that recently she is full of lust and looking forward for sexual adventures...this information was very devastating for me (at least it seems not to be connected to a specific person, not yet). When I heard this I felt like it was another dday (I had to puke..wtf is going on with me). 
Honestly, I am starting to be afraid that she is having a (light) manic episode (she has been bipolar in the past, see first post "medical issues") again after so many stable years. However, I more and more feel deeply disappointed for how she bins all the years that we had, I suffer dearly in seeing her lack of commitment for our marriage and the lack of willingness to save what once was our our lifework...this family. She basically ended the whole thing as if it was just some sort of insignificant fling. I am still convinced that she has no idea of the consequences of her actions... but it looks like that is going to be her problem as I just filled out the "request for divorce" form and I will probably let her sign it during the next week or so. I just cant stand it anymore and Id rather walk away and never look back instead of keep taking her cheap shots and try to smile while.

thank you all for your support..


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> update: As I found out by accident, my stbxw mentioned to a (female) friend of her that recently she is full of lust and looking forward for sexual adventures...this information was very devastating for me (at least it seems not to be connected to a specific person, not yet). When I heard this I felt like it was another dday (I had to puke..wtf is going on with me).
> Honestly, I am starting to be afraid that she is having a (light) manic episode (she has been bipolar in the past, see first post "medical issues") again after so many stable years. However, I more and more feel deeply disappointed for how she bins all the years that we had, I suffer dearly in seeing her lack of commitment for our marriage and the lack of willingness to save what once was our our lifework...this family. She basically ended the whole thing as if it was just some sort of insignificant fling. I am still convinced that she has no idea of the consequences of her actions... but it looks like that is going to be her problem as I just filled out the "request for divorce" form and I will probably let her sign it during the next week or so. I just cant stand it anymore and Id rather walk away and never look back instead of keep taking her cheap shots and try to smile while.
> 
> thank you all for your support..


Perhaps the fact that you signed will shock her out of whatever she is going through. It says that you are ready to move on. You will no longer be a safety net for her.

Is she on meds for the bipolar? If so, does she take them religiously or has she gone off them in the past?


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

> Is she on meds for the bipolar? If so, does she take them religiously or has she gone off them in the past?


nope, hasnt been for ten years. She has been very stable ever since. Maybe I need to mention that a close relative of hers (whom she is very close to) suffers from terminal cancer for a while now (it is getting worse lately), that might be a possible trigger. Being married with a bipolar I know the signs but this time it is really difficult to tell, there are some signs (not realizing consequences, trashing her live, living in the moment, promiscuous intentions...) but not all and everything could possibly be explained without the need of a manic episode. Probably I will only know later...if it is then there will be the crash - inevitably

In any case, I dont want to blame the situation on her "issue" this seems wrong and probably isnt justified.



> Perhaps the fact that you signed will shock her out of whatever she is going through. It says that you are ready to move on. You will no longer be a safety net for her.


this is connected with the previous question, *if* she is manic, then she probably doesnt care. I am afraid of her not to care much... On the other hand, it reflects my feelings (except that I still love her dearly) and it seems the only way out of limbo, as much as I would love to go out the other way. I cant stand it any much longer (I already lost ~7kg of weight and I was pretty athletic before i.e. not overweight at all, I cant perform at work).
What holds me back is that it is only 5 weeks from dday....


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> nope, hasnt been for ten years. She has been very stable ever since. Maybe I need to mention that a close relative of hers (whom she is very close to) suffers from terminal cancer for a while now (it is getting worse lately), that might be a possible trigger. Being married with a bipolar I know the signs but this time it is really difficult to tell, there are some signs (not realizing consequences, trashing her live, living in the moment, promiscuous intentions...) but not all and everything could possibly be explained without the need of a manic episode. Probably I will only know later...if it is then there will be the crash - inevitably
> 
> In any case, I dont want to blame the situation on her "issue" this seems wrong and probably isnt justified.
> 
> ...



Attributing it to her bipolar may be wrong, but it may be right. Just something to keep in mind.

Just curious, did she go off meds with hr doctor's approval or on her own?

I understand that you love her and all of this hurts like hell, but you need to start taking care of yourself. Exercise, get together with friends, go to a movie, take up a hobby. You need to have at least some moments in the day when you aren't consumed with thoughts of her or you will go crazy. And then you won't be good for anyone. Build yourself up. Don't let her see you as a sad, defeated man. We like to think that seeing us like that will bring our spouses running back. But it won't. Sad and defeated is not appealing at all. Be strong.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

> Just curious, did she go off meds with hr doctor's approval or on her own?


with the doctors approval (and given the long time of stability it seems this was a good decision)



> I understand that you love her and all of this hurts like hell, but you need to start taking care of yourself. Exercise, get together with friends, go to a movie, take up a hobby. You need to have at least some moments in the day when you aren't consumed with thoughts of her or you will go crazy. And then you won't be good for anyone. Build yourself up. Don't let her see you as a sad, defeated man. We like to think that seeing us like that will bring our spouses running back. But it won't. Sad and defeated is not appealing at all. Be strong.


It is so incredibly hard, I am astonished of the amount of pain and despair my brain-chemistry is able to unleash! 
I perfectly know about not to show her the defeated man that I am but I dont know where to take the strength to pretend that I am doing fine, I am just unable to present myself as a confident man.
Thanks for your supporting words its about all that I can hold on for the moment...


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

little update: my wife invited me for family dinner tonight, we had a fairly good evening and it was the first time that I felt that my wife didnt seem so sure about not loving me anymore.. when I left I got an "intense hug" (and she seemed to almost want to kiss me). It also was the first time that I was not that much terrified of letting her go anymore (of course I am still very much in love with her but I start to see that there is also an alternative live with many possibilities..)


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

so, yet another update:
I am making progress of letting my wife go. While I am still madly in love with her (and sexually craving for her) I notice an ongoing "battle" between my rational part (saying: let go, start with the rest of your live, enjoy the things to come. Anyway, your wife told you that she didnt want to be with you anymore accept the facts and stop daydreaming!) of me and my emotional side (saying: this is the only woman you can get happy with, try everything to win her back, be patient as your wife might still change her mind and come back to u). Usually, when I notice those kinds of fights, it doesnt take long anymore for the rational part to gain...

oddly enough, my wife (while still not saying anything in that direction) starts to act more and more like she is not so sure anymore about burrying this marriage. She keeps finding pretenses to make me come to her flat and also tries to keep me there (by sitting on the couch and start a casual conversation, offering me drinks etc.)... All in all I can say that I am regaining a little bit of control over my life and it feels good! However, I still have moments where I could just collapse and cry my heart out, for example in the course of the following conversation that I had with my daugther:

daugther: Hey dad, u want to play with me?
me: uh, you know I just came by to pick up my work-out shoes, I will go for a work-out right now..
d.: will we play after you come back from your work-out?
me: I am not coming back after work out but I promise I will play with you sometimes (starting to feel tearful)
d.: but when will you come back?
me: I dont know (feeling really desperate)
d.: will you never come back?
me: come here, give your dad a hug (crying silently but intensively)


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

in spite feeling pretty lonely in my thread, here is an update:

I had a very bad day...
as I wrote, in the last couple of days my wife was sending out subtle signs of her moving towards reconciliation, while I was getting better and stronger. At some point I was worrying that I only started to feel better _because_ my wife seemed to move a bit more towards reconciliation. Apparently this fear was justified, not that my wife did anything out of the ordinary, but I realized today that I am still way down in limbo, further down than ever. I was crying for the first time in more than a week (not in front of my wife at least). I am hurting like crazy, I love that woman sooo much I cannot describe it in words (let alone in English words ). I am desperate and I have no idea how to continue this. Since I apparently can not bear limbo I should file for D...but then I feel that there might be some hope which I can not let go just yet (yeah, I know typical limbo thinking). However, towards my wife I was able to keep up the guard, she mentioned that I make a "calm" impression...(whilst inside I feel blank dispair..lol)


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

should I write a txt saying "good night"?


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> should I write a txt saying "good night"?


I know its hard, but no. Let her continue to make excuses to contact you. Be friendly when she does, but don't prusue her. She is learning what it is like to be without you. Let that lesson continue.

Why would you press for divorce if you think she is showing signs of wanting to be with you?


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

> I know its hard, but no


I wrote it, but fortunately I didnt send after reading your post... Thanks for stopping me!



> Be friendly when she does, but don't prusue her


I am and we are actually having a good time when we meet.



> Why would you press for divorce if you think she is showing signs of wanting to be with you?


that is a difficult question...Reasons are:

1. limbo is killing me (I know, I sound like a weenie but this state of mind starts to really macerate me: losing to much weight, unable to sleep...)
2. while she seems to give some signs, they are so subtle that sometimes I think that I make them up just because I want to think that way. She is not making any statements about to reconcile or working on our marriage, she is rather just undetermined to go any direction.
3. while this is absolutely a side issue, it needs to be mentioned that at the moment I make 70k/year and this most likely is going to almost double next year. Waiting to long with divorcing will be very costly for me... Just to make things clear, I would give all my money, my phd and one of my legs to just have another chance to be with my family...Its just *if* this is not going to happen, then I would at least like not to be broke as well...


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

stupidguy said:


> i wrote it, but fortunately i didnt send after reading your post... Thanks for stopping me!
> 
> You'welcome.
> I' m not yelling at you, i just don't know how to separate quotes the way you did and i want to make sure you see my resonses.
> ...


i'm not sure settling it now will end her claims on your income. She may be entitled to part of any increase you receive.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Well, that didn't work. I tried answering each of your points in capital letters so you would see my words, but they have come out in small letters. Hopefully you noticed.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

here I am again,

thanks frostflower for your comments and your help, it is very much appreciated.



> i just don't know how to separate quotes the way you did


if you want a text to appear in a "quote-box", this is how you can do it (leave out the *):
[QUOTE*]...TEXT TO QUOTE...[/QUOTE*]



> She's confused. It will take time, and yes, that's hard.


You are so right... In both, that she needs time and that it is sooo hard



> i'm not sure settling it now will end her claims on your income. She may be entitled to part of any increase you receive.


Again, this is a side issue really and I dont want to focus on that (not yet at least). I havent done any research on how the situation is in my country but the general conception seems to be that both partners should be able to keep their standard of living but thats it (focused on the past not future)


Update: Yesterday evening I f**** up pretty badly.. I was visiting my wife in order to discuss finances and housing. It was very difficult for me to discuss such "technical" issues given the highly emotional context... It also seems that I silently was hoping that something would happen (since this discussion kind of materialized that we are splitting up) but "nothing" happend. After our discussion I was stupid enough to ask my wife if she wanted to spend a day or two with me (at our soon to come anniversary). She answered that she had to think about it. In spite her answer not being outright negative, it got me very upset somehow, I gave her the divorce paperwork with my signature on it (I was carrying this around for a while) and told her that she could do whatever she wanted with it (mean sign it or bin it or whatever). She seemed pretty shocked and got a little angry (oddly her anger felt real good as it is at least showing some emotions for our case). She blamed me to give the situation not the time it needed to settle and also asked me how I would have reacted if she gave me the divorce papers a year before when I just left for a month. She also pointed out how terrible it was during the last two years when I was almost completely ignoring her and her desires. I wasnt aware of how much she was fighting for that marriage before dday, before she lost hope. However, after talking for another 30mins or so we both calmed down considerably, we had a good time again and we where even laughing together. She gave me back the papers and I took them. Once again I left with a very weird mix of feelings, on one side feeling rejected from her and on the other side feeling that we are having a good time and still make a damn good match (I know that she also has this impression).


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> here I am again,
> 
> thanks frostflower for your comments and your help, it is very much appreciated.
> 
> ...



I am very slow when it comes to technology. I still don't 'get' how to do the quotes.

I'm sure you realize that you overreacted by handing her the divorce papers when she said she needed to think about spending time with you. She didn't outright reject the idea, which is hopeful. It is also hopeful that she reacted as she did when you gave her the papers. She could have just signed them. You say that you left feeling in part rejected. She didn't reject you. She simply asked to be allowed to think about it. Maybe she would have decided not to spend that time with you. Maybe she would have decided to do it. But there was no outright rejection.

She needs time and space. If you keep acting the way you did in this instance, you will push her away. She told you what she needed, which was to think about it, and you ignored her needs and over-reacted because you didn't get what you wanted. Back off.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

frostflower, thanks for your ongoing support it helps me getting through this more than you might think...



> I'm sure you realize that you overreacted by handing her the divorce papers when she said she needed to think about spending time with you. She didn't outright reject the idea, which is hopeful. It is also hopeful that she reacted as she did when you gave her the papers. She could have just signed them. You say that you left feeling in part rejected. She didn't reject you. She simply asked to be allowed to think about it. Maybe she would have decided not to spend that time with you. Maybe she would have decided to do it. But there was no outright rejection.


you are very right in both, that my reactions where bad and that I knew that this was the case. Its kind of like in theory it is "easy" but when I try to implement then my damn feelings get into my way and I start to act stupidly and irrational... I am just so much afraid to lose her (I am not afraid that I could not find another woman, it is just that I realized that I really really want to be with her)



> She needs time and space.


there it is again. Perfectly correct. It was one of the first thoughts I had after her "I dont think that I still love you" speech...... yet soo hard to implement. I wish I had a button to turn my feelings on and off.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

I wish I had a button to turn my feelings on and off.[/QUOTE]

You and me both.

It is hard. It might help to run through all the possible scenarios in your head before talking to her. In this case, you would have imagined her saying yes, that she wanted to spend the time with you. Then you would picture your reaction and what you would say. Then you would have imagined her saying no, and what your reaction would be. Finally, you would have imagined her saying she wanted to think about it. How would you react? I hope that makes sense. By thinking of each possibility and planning how you would react to each, it might help you stay calm whatever happens. Plan it right down to the exact words you would use. Run through it in your head several times before actually talking to her. Practice in front of a mirror so that you can monitor your facial expressions.

And next time, leave the divorce papers at home.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

> It might help to run through all the possible scenarios in your head before talking to her.


that is a good strategy that will try to implement..

Update: the situation is kind of stagnant at the moment, wife sending out very subtle and mostly positive signals but does not say anything that might suggest R any time soon. My state on the other hand is getting worse. I am developping a serious problem with insomnia (right now it is 3:30 in the moring, yesterday I slept 2 hours) which really sucks... So for the sake of my health I have to set a time limit for this drama to end! Of course I dont plan to give my wife an ultimatum as I think that this would push her away. For another month, I will give her time and space but I will also be there if she calls for me. If after this month there is no distinct signs of her wanting to R and make that marriage work, then I will file for divorce. I hope that this is a good/fair plan (and I really do hope that she will eventually send out those signs). Any thoughts are highly welcome...


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> that is a good strategy that will try to implement..
> 
> Update: the situation is kind of stagnant at the moment, wife sending out very subtle and mostly positive signals but does not say anything that might suggest R any time soon. My state on the other hand is getting worse. I am developping a serious problem with insomnia (right now it is 3:30 in the moring, yesterday I slept 2 hours) which really sucks... So for the sake of my health I have to set a time limit for this drama to end! Of course I dont plan to give my wife an ultimatum as I think that this would push her away. For another month, I will give her time and space but I will also be there if she calls for me. If after this month there is no distinct signs of her wanting to R and make that marriage work, then I will file for divorce. I hope that this is a good/fair plan (and I really do hope that she will eventually send out those signs). Any thoughts are highly welcome...


if you don't get some sleep, you are going to end up sick, depressed or both. You will not make good decisions when you are sleep-deprived, nor will you interact reasonably with your wife. Talk to your doctor about it. Even if you have to take something to help you for a time, it will be well worth it. Sleep deprivation takes a toll on your physical, mental and emotional health.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

Frostflower, you give me great advise...thanks. Seems like you have quite of a talent in helping people in such terrible situations as I find myself in at the moment.



> if you don't get some sleep, you are going to end up sick, depressed or both. You will not make good decisions when you are sleep-deprived, nor will you interact reasonably with your wife.


yeh, very true... unfortunately insomnia is the way my body tells me that "it cannot go on like this" it is the way I react to stress, I had this problem once before when I had a hard time on my job. I am however a bit afraid of using sleeping meds as those tend to have some severe side effects (including addiction). In addition they only treat symptoms and not the cause...

That is the reason for my self imposed deadline for the attempt to win my wife's heart back. Do you think that this is a completely unreasonable approach in my situation? Also I start to feel that my wife is making a plan B of me, something that I am definitely not going to let happen...ever.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> Frostflower, you give me great advise...thanks. Seems like you have quite of a talent in helping people in such terrible situations as I find myself in at the moment.
> 
> 
> yeh, very true... unfortunately insomnia is the way my body tells me that "it cannot go on like this" it is the way I react to stress, I had this problem once before when I had a hard time on my job. I am however a bit afraid of using sleeping meds as those tend to have some severe side effects (including addiction). In addition they only treat symptoms and not the cause...
> ...


Try Melatonin to help you sleep. It is a natural substance that our bodies make to aid sleep. You can buy supplements at health food stores. As far as I know it has no side effects and is non-addictive. 
Some of the children I work with take it.

I don't know if your wife is doing plan B. She did ask for time and if you don't give it to her, you will push her away. The fact that she did not want the divorce papers tells you something. Have you given her a deadline? I hope not. I also hope you let go of the deadline for now. Although it seems longer, it has not been that long that you have been apart. I know you miss her and want her back, but if you keep pushing you will likely destroy your chances. And if you hold to your deadline, you wil certainly wreck whatever chance you have. It might come across as a power tactic, an attempt to control her. Let it go. Focus on you right now, not her.

Thank you for your compliment. I'm glad you find my words helpful. I wish I could help myself!


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

> Try Melatonin to help you sleep. It is a natural substance that our bodies make to aid sleep. You can buy supplements at health food stores. As far as I know it has no side effects and is non-addictive.
> Some of the children I work with take it.


unfortunately, this is not available in my country. I will try to source it through other channels...



> Have you given her a deadline? I hope not. I also hope you let go of the deadline for now.


I didnt give her a deadline and I dont intend in doing so. I set up the deadline (of which she would only know when it is "too late") for myself in an attempt to define where my own boundaries are... Today my wife told me that she feels that I am pressing her into making a decision (probably bcause I told her that I dont want to stay at my friends any longer and that I will rent my own appartament, and of course the thing with the divorce papers). At the same time she told me to take her "denial" of keeping the papers as a sign. I really think that she wants to find out whether or not she is going to miss me. I think that she doesnt know whether or not she wants me back. What I dont know is whether I will still be there waiting for her once that she has made up her mind.. This must not be seen as a lack of love from my side as it is rather the opposite, I kind of love her to much to stand that state in which I never know whether I will ever be able to embrace her again.



> I wish I could help myself!


you *are* helping, more than you probably think. You bar me from doing stupid things and you give me lots of strength and encouragement to endure that most painful period of my whole live...Thank you!


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Didn't I tell you that her not wanting the divorce papers meant something?! Now give her that space that she needs.

Your deadline worries me. It may not be time enough for her to figure things out. Could you not ask her to meet you in, say three months, to talk and see where you both are in your thoughts and feelings? (If you do this, leave the divorce papers at home, or you might do something you will later regret.). During the three months or whatever time you agree to, have minimal contact, only when necessary to discuss finances, etc. Don't treat the three months as a deadline after which you will make an absolute decision. See where you both are at the end of the time, and then, if you feel it is needed, set a deadline. 

She sounds confused. Respect her enough to let her find her own answers otherwise you will never know if her decision came from love or from a feeling of having to decide.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

It sounds like you like the chase. Chasing another woman when you were complacent in your marriage. Call it mid life if you want to but obviously you don't know why you were doing it. And now chasing your wife. The question is; if you and your wife reconnect, will you become unhappy and bored? That's not very fair to her.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

> It sounds like you like the chase. Chasing another woman when you were complacent in your marriage. Call it mid life if you want to but obviously you don't know why you were doing it. And now chasing your wife. The question is; if you and your wife reconnect, will you become unhappy and bored? That's not very fair to her.


I am not into chasing.... I never behaved like I did one year ago in all the years before and I didnt miss it at all... however, it doesnt matter anymore, see next post.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

@Sbrown: I owe you lunch

so, looks like this is going to be my last post, at least in this thread. 

Today I was home to spend a day with the children, my wife left to enjoy "a day off". I have been always reluctant to spy on my wife, I decided not to install a keylogger on "my computer" for example. Anyway, this morning I wanted to check my mails, and saw my wifes email account all open..I could not resist. While I soon realized that much of the mailing history was deleted (it all looked waaay to tidy) I still found a conversation that rocked me...

end of story, I confronted my wife and she confessed in loving another man. Now this alone would be a problem that I think we could have worked out. I know it firsthand that butterflies can be digested...

Problem is the man under discussion:

1. When my wife told me that she didnt love me anymore, I asked her _specifically _ if she was involved with that man. That she needed to tell me, not because I was her husband, friend or whatever but out of respect for me as a human being...

2. In that same conversation I also told her that we could probably overcome almost any problem that we could encounter. But if she was having inadequate contact to that man I wouldnt want to see her again in my live...she wouldnt exist for me aymore

3. I know this f*** since 30years (I am aged 34) he is the god damn godfather of one of our children, he pretended to be a friend..

4. She had contact with him several years ago that was already slightly out of the standard for a married woman, I confronted her and she swore to almost everything imaginable that they where nothing but good friends..I believed her (now of course all those years mean nothing to me, I feel they where stolen from my live) 

Soo, lets come to the conclusion:

*Personal conclusion:* I am done with my stbxw, really done I will divorce her ass ASAP and I told her so. She made my ABSOLUTELY worst nightmares come true, into the last detail. I will have to find a way to see my kids but not my ex, this is going to be tough but there will be a way. The last time I will have interact with her is for the divorce, from then on she is out of my live. 

*General observation:* To anyone getting an ILYBNIL or "I dont love you anymore" kind of speech from his/her spouse...also if you are freaking sure, if you think the last thing that your spouse will give you is honesty, there is (most likely) an affair going on. I am yet another example...

Thanks to all people for giving me valuable advice and helping me to go through the darkest paths of my live as so far...thanks frostflower for giving me strength and good advice..


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

sounds like she's now where you were early 2010


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

as I said, its not the fact but the person that makes the difference here...completely different as she makes me think that she had been silently dreaming of him for the last seven years... nullifying all our marriage


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

I wasn't having a dig at you im sorry if it came across that way,
was your marriage on the rocks when she contacted him 7 years ago, just wondering if is her 'go to' guy


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> @Sbrown: I owe you lunch
> 
> so, looks like this is going to be my last post, at least in this thread.
> 
> ...


Oh Guy ( I refuse to call you 'Stupid Guy'), I am so sorry. You have been betrayed not just by your wife, but by your friend also. I can only imagine your pain.

I know it must hurt like hell and you are beyond angry, but please don't let that anger fester and turn to hatred and bitterness. That will only hurt you. It will eat you up from the inside. It will also affect your children as hate is impossible to conceal. She is, and will always be, their mother. Try to respect that, hard as it will be at first.

Is there someone you can talk to? You should not keep this all inside you.

Please don't leave us. We care about you.

Hugs.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

> I wasn't having a dig at you im sorry if it came across that way


no problem. I might be a little sensitive at the moment .



> was your marriage on the rocks when she contacted him 7 years ago, just wondering if is her 'go to' guy


he always showed up when there was at least some troubles with our relationship or when I was "weakened" by something else. Of course he always came by as "the good friend". For example, he would take my wife for hikes when she complained that she wanted to do something when I always was trying to get some rest (from working my ass of for our family ..lol). I was always a little bit uneasy with it but from an objective standpoint I couldnt say anything against it, I trusted my wife (way too much)


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

> Oh Guy ( I refuse to call you 'Stupid Guy'), I am so sorry. You have been betrayed not just by your wife, but by your friend also. I can only imagine your pain.
> 
> I know it must hurt like hell and you are beyond angry, but please don't let that anger fester and turn to hatred and bitterness. That will only hurt you. It will eat you up from the inside. It will also affect your children as hate is impossible to conceal. She is, and will always be, their mother. Try to respect that, hard as it will be at first.
> 
> ...


frostflower, I just saw your post now. Thanks for your kind words.
It hurts so much, it is beyond anything I could have imagined. It is really the only thing that my wife could have done to hurt me the way she did. You know, I always had an uneasy feeling towards that guy and my wife but I thought that something like that could never ever happen. In all the years, I was occasionally thinking that if my wife was getting involved with that guy it would be the worst thing imaginable for me to happen, I always have put those thoughts aside thinking that this would just be too insane to happen, that my wife couldnt possibly be so cruel to me..I was wrong. 
Now I am really afraid that I will eventually hate her for what she has done...


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> frostflower, I just saw your post now. Thanks for your kind words.
> It hurts so much, it is beyond anything I could have imagined. It is really the only thing that my wife could have done to hurt me the way she did. You know, I always had an uneasy feeling towards that guy and my wife but I thought that something like that could never ever happen. In all the years, I was occasionally thinking that if my wife was getting involved with that guy it would be the worst thing imaginable for me to happen, I always have put those thoughts aside thinking that this would just be too insane to happen, that my wife couldnt possibly be so cruel to me..I was wrong.
> Now I am really afraid that I will eventually hate her for what she has done...


I know. I've always believed that having an affair is the worse thing someone could do to their spouse. And I always believed that my husband would never, ever do that. It hurts so bad. To be rejected and betrayed like that.

I do feel angry, that is only natural, but I am trying hard not to let that anger take hold of me and make me bitter. My husband and your wife made a huge mistake and in the process destroyed something that should have been precious. I try to remember that my husband was stressed and made an extremely bad choice to deal with it. That helps, but, oh, it still hurts.

Someday, I hope I can forgive my husband for what he has done. I wish this more for my sake. My hatred would not really affect him. He has moved on. But that hatred would eat at me and turn me into someone I don't want to be.

It will take time, but I hope that you can find peace.

Take care of yourself.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

> Someday, I hope I can forgive my husband for what he has done. I wish this more for my sake.


I really hope that someday we both are able to forgive our spouses. Forgiving feels soooo much better than any kind of revenge ever could, yet it is so hard to do. It might help to mind that all the pain and horror that they have put us through is ultimately the result of them trying to tackle their challenge of finding happiness. Arent we all just struggling with that undertaking? They may or may not regret some of their choices someday but all that we can do is let them find their way on their own....I am not there yet, I hope that I will some time...


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> I really hope that someday we both are able to forgive our spouses. Forgiving feels soooo much better than any kind of revenge ever could, yet it is so hard to do. It might help to mind that all the pain and horror that they have put us through is ultimately the result of them trying to tackle their challenge of finding happiness. Arent we all just struggling with that undertaking? They may or may not regret some of their choices someday but all that we can do is let them find their way on their own....I am not there yet, I hope that I will some time...


That is a good, healthy way of looking at it. Sounds like you are on your way to getting there. Looks like a long road, but if we put one foot in front of the other, eventually we will get there.


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## Honeystly (Mar 1, 2012)

Guy, I'm sorry for what you are going through. Question, did your wife specifically say she wanted a divorce? I don't understand why she balked at the divorce papers the other night, if she isn't 'in love with you' anymore.... She might still have doubts. Have you considered fighting for her? I mean this happened to you, so you know how foggy things can get.
The only thing that concerns me is the 7 years... the fact that you think she's been fantasizing about him for that long. That suuucks. She obviously idealised this turd. Pity. Hope you will be ok. Just look out for your kids. They are the innocent ones here. Good luck.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

The problem with "fighting for her" is you will spend the rest of your life doing just that. IMO, quitters always find a reason to quit.


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## Honeystly (Mar 1, 2012)

Sbrown, I see that, but considering that Guy cheated on his wife himself and contributed to this mess (by leaving home for a couple of months), it seems like a fair thing to do. This situation is obviously a consequence of a series of events, rather than just a 'simple' affair. I know if I cheated, I would 'fight' to at least clear my conscience, to know that even though I messed up first and badly, I attempted to remedy the situation, which most likely my affair compounded.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

> Question, did your wife specifically say she wanted a divorce?


no, she didnt want a divorce (altough she clearly was not surprised when I wanted a divorcd after her "web of lies" collapsed). 



> I don't understand why she balked at the divorce papers the other night, if she isn't 'in love with you' anymore.... She might still have doubts.


me neither! also I dont understand why she still wrote me some txts as she did before my discoveries. One night for example she wrote that she enjoyed the evening and that lately she wasnt so sure about not to love me anymore, she even once wrote that she almost couldnt resist to ask me to stay over night. But then she could again be cold as ice the following day..
basically there is two possible approaches to explain her behavior:

1 she tried to keep me "usable" as a plan B, if things dont work out with OM

2 she really was not completely sure



> Have you considered fighting for her?


No! what she did (and the way she did it!) was just to much. I dont even know whether I would be able to take her back if she was fighting for me!
If she was having an affair with some random guy the situation would be completely different, I would try to win her back the best I could. The reasons why this is a totally 
different situation I tried to clarify in the earlier post,

(1)flat out lying after I was begging on my knees for the truth. (2)Her/our history with that guy. (4)She knew that she was materializing my worst nightmares and it didn't stop her. (4) She told me that the EA "kind of started" back in 2010, so it is a "longterm" EA...(5) She and OM apparently had plans to continue the E.A. and start a P.A. without telling me, that means I would have still thought that my wife just needed time and I would have fought for her. Her being able to make such cruel plans when she sees how much I was hurting under the circumstances broke my heart.



> The problem with "fighting for her" is you will spend the rest of your life doing just that. IMO, quitters always find a reason to quit.


something I never mentioned before (because it didnt seem to matter) is that when we where still teenagers, there was a time when she wanted to leave me for an affair that she had (she was honest from almost the beginning back then at least). After I was ready to let her go and before it got "really physical" she suddenly decided to come back to me and I welcomed her. Ever since I felt the need to fight for her at least a little bit... Maybe it is just her disposition to fall into that trap...

PS: OM left his wife (yep, he is also married) to start a live with my stbx..grotesque


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Guy, again I am sorry you are going through this. If it is anynsmall consolation, Conrad (have you met him? I don't think he has posted on your thread.) anyway, he told me in my thread that there is only a 5% chance that your wife and the Om will be together in five years. They are both cheaters. they have each cheated on one spouse. Do they both really think that the other one won't cheat on them? How can they trust each other?

It must be horrendous knowing that your children are living with another man. Hopefully you can work out custody in a reasonable way.

Take care.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

> If it is anynsmall consolation, Conrad (have you met him? I don't think he has posted on your thread.) anyway, he told me in my thread that there is only a 5% chance that your wife and the Om will be together in five years


Funny thing is, even *if* my wife is going to be completely unhappy in that relationship she would probably stay there just so that she doesnt have to admit to herself how big of a mistake that she has made... (sad, but that is the way she "ticks" in such things)



> It must be horrendous knowing that your children are living with another man. Hopefully you can work out custody in a reasonable way.


Yes it is! particularly so since the man who will most likely share most time with them is not what I would call a "shining example of a decent person.."


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> Funny thing is, even *if* my wife is going to be completely unhappy in that relationship she would probably stay there just so that she doesnt have to admit to herself how big of a mistake that she has made... (sad, but that is the way she "ticks" in such things)
> 
> 
> Yes it is! particularly so since the man who will most likely share most time with them is not what I would call a "shining example of a decent person.."


If she's like a lot of people then she's just too emotionally weak to be alone and then she blames whoever she's with when she's not happy.

My first marriage ended with my wife having an affair. He was her boss. She would not leave her job so I filed for divorce. She was begging me to work it out and he was begging his wife the same. Doubt they know that about each other now. We did not reconcile and he and his wife divorced as well and then he and my ex got married. Work it out. Please....

Sounds terrible? Not really. Betrayal is emotional devastating so yea I was in pain at first until one morning about 3-4 weeks after split and it was gone. I had come to he realization that I was holding on to fiction. She was not who I pretended she was and never had been.

I learned a lot, chased better girls , and am blessed with a wonderful wife now who thinks about other people too. Odd how that makes a difference  Oh yea and incredibly sexy too. Anyway I wonder how my Ex and her husband feel about how they started dating. It seems like they must know it's tainted somehow. Apparently she's a serial cheater because a mutual friend told me a few years back that she was in love with some other guy. I was not asking and it's not my problem . Okay I smile but it made me sad for them.

Bottom line though is we have kids. She and I were amicable and respectful and responsible after the split and raised our kids with plenty of cooperation. My youngest is 20 now so I rarely have to talk to her anymore which is nice. I don't think she knew or knows how little respect I have for her. It truly takes a self centered emotionally weak person to be a serial cheater. As for OM. He's a nice guy who did a ****ty thing but was a pretty good step parent to my kids. But he's married to the ex.... poor guy.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> Funny thing is, even *if* my wife is going to be completely unhappy in that relationship she would probably stay there just so that she doesnt have to admit to herself how big of a mistake that she has made... (sad, but that is the way she "ticks" in such things)
> 
> 
> Yes it is! particularly so since the man who will most likely share most time with them is not what I would call a "shining example of a decent person.."


But he may dump her.

No-one who cheats is an honorable person. But that is her choice and you will need to come to terms with your feelings about him for your children's sakes.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

> If she's like a lot of people then she's just too emotionally weak to be alone and then she blames whoever she's with when she's not happy.


thats a topic that me and my (stb)xw have discussed several times, Its always been my point that a person first of all has to be content with her/himself before she/he could live happily in a relationship whereas my wifes opinion was more within the lines that if somebody who is in a relationship is not happy, then there must be something wrong in the relationship.. 



> My first marriage ended with my wife having an affair. He was her boss. She would not leave her job so I filed for divorce. She was begging me to work it out and he was begging his wife the same. Doubt they know that about each other now. We did not reconcile and he and his wife divorced as well and then he and my ex got married. Work it out. Please....


I am not sure to understand correctly. How could she ask you to work it out and at the same time refuse to quit her job? How am I supposed to work my mess out? I mean yea deep down I probably still love that woman (in a hard to understand way) but I clearly can not work anything out, she is together with that guy now! If she ever wants to come back to me (and that is an enormous if), then she sure has to "approach" me and give some pretty god evidence that she is ready to fight for me.



> I learned a lot, chased better girls , and am blessed with a wonderful wife now who thinks about other people too.


hopefully I wil be able to say the same thing one day . What I can say already is that I learned a lot!



> But he may dump her.


this would be a prime reason not to take her back as it would make me feel like plan B for the rest of my live..



> No-one who cheats is an honorable person.


In our case, I think that the way everything unfolded was much worse than the bare fact of her cheating. If it was just a "sexual lapse" I would be mad at her but never as disappointed. It is not meant as an excuse but after all, we became a couple very early and neither of us had the opportunity to "break ones horns"...


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> thats a topic that me and my (stb)xw have discussed several times, Its always been my point that a person first of all has to be content with her/himself before she/he could live happily in a relationship whereas my wifes opinion was more within the lines that if somebody who is in a relationship is not happy, then there must be something wrong in the relationship..
> 
> 
> I am not sure to understand correctly. How could she ask you to work it out and at the same time refuse to quit her job? How am I supposed to work my mess out? I mean yea deep down I probably still love that woman (in a hard to understand way) but I clearly can not work anything out, she is together with that guy now! If she ever wants to come back to me (and that is an enormous if), then she sure has to "approach" me and give some pretty god evidence that she is ready to fight for me.
> ...


Feeeling like a plan B as in second best, is my fear too should my husband's OW dump him. It would be better if he dumped her. I would not take him back right away whichever way it went. He would have to 'date' me, live somewhere else and prove to me that I am his first and only choice now.

Whether its a one-night stand or a long term affair, it's a betrayal. I think what hurts even more than the physical aspect is the emotional involvement with the OW.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> thats a topic that me and my (stb)xw have discussed several times, Its always been my point that a person first of all has to be content with her/himself before she/he could live happily in a relationship whereas my wifes opinion was more within the lines that if somebody who is in a relationship is not happy, then there must be something wrong in the relationship..


I agree completely. It's each person's burden to be comfortable in their own skin and at least happy with themselves. if allows them to appreciate their spouse without blaming them when they are unhappy. My wife and I also have discussed it. I think it made her feel strong to realized that we were not dependent on each other to be happy. Of course she makes me happier.





stupidGuy said:


> I am not sure to understand correctly. How could she ask you to work it out and at the same time refuse to quit her job? How am I supposed to work my mess out? I mean yea deep down I probably still love that woman (in a hard to understand way) but I clearly can not work anything out, she is together with that guy now! If she ever wants to come back to me (and that is an enormous if), then she sure has to "approach" me and give some pretty god evidence that she is ready to fight for me.


Actually you do understand. I guess she was playing the victim saying I was leaving her and she needed me and that she would stop talking to the OM but that she couldn't quit her job because she would be depressed without one. And believe me I still loved her then but I could not run from logic . Quitting the job was not optional so everything proceeded until finally we're setting in the court room with her crying like I'm being mean. Geez. And she never quit seeing the OM to work anything out so I don't know what she was trying to do. Anyway that's the type of behavior that helped me wake up that morning I was talking about and realize I was in love with a figment of my imagination.




stupidGuy said:


> hopefully I wil be able to say the same thing one day . What I can say already is that I learned a lot!


I hope so too. I admire people who learn from past mistakes so looking back on it I am proud that I was able to learn from my first marriage. It gives me self respect. I am also pleased with myself for putting our kids first. I was determined that she and I would cooperate in raising our boys. If they were grounded at her house then it carried over to mine and the same way in reverse. I short I'm pleased that I did not let bitterness or betrayal become and obstruction.



stupidGuy said:


> In our case, I think that the way everything unfolded was much worse than the bare fact of her cheating. If it was just a "sexual lapse" I would be mad at her but never as disappointed. It is not meant as an excuse but after all, we became a couple very early and neither of us had the opportunity to "break ones horns"...


Yea anytime you add in something that seems "In your face" it becomes more difficult. 

Good luck.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

> It would be better if he dumped her. I would not take him back right away whichever way it went. He would have to 'date' me, live somewhere else and prove to me that I am his first and only choice now.


that is pretty much how I feel too. Anyway, if I am honest with myself, even if my wife starts to do things right, chances of us getting back together are maybe fifty-fifty if not less (she deeply hurt me and ALL trust is gone).

Update: I received an email from my wife to our anniversary which is today.. Again, it seems to reflect her state of not knowing what to want and where to go. I cannot make a whole lot of sense of it at the moment but I have to say that reading it throws me back in my progress of healing...


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

> I agree completely. It's each person's burden to be comfortable in their own skin and at least happy with themselves. if allows them to appreciate their spouse without blaming them when they are unhappy.





> Actually you do understand. I guess she was playing the victim saying I was leaving her and she needed me and that she would stop talking to the OM but that she couldn't quit her job because she would be depressed without one. And believe me I still loved her then but I could not run from logic . Quitting the job was not optional so everything proceeded until finally we're setting in the court room with her crying like I'm being mean. Geez. And she never quit seeing the OM to work anything out so I don't know what she was trying to do. Anyway that's the type of behavior that helped me wake up that morning I was talking about and realize I was in love with a figment of my imagination.


looks like we share a common line of thought... It gives me some hope to someday be in a state similar to yours (which seems to be a pretty good one  )



> Yea anytime you add in something that seems "In your face" it becomes more difficult.


yea, I have problems to deal with "IYF" kind of stuff and there was plenty of that (to say the least)...looking forward

thank you all for support and the oportunity to share my thoughts..


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> that is pretty much how I feel too. Anyway, if I am honest with myself, even if my wife starts to do things right, chances of us getting back together are maybe fifty-fifty if not less (she deeply hurt me and ALL trust is gone).
> 
> Update: I received an email from my wife to our anniversary which is today.. Again, it seems to reflect her state of not knowing what to want and where to go. I cannot make a whole lot of sense of it at the moment but I have to say that reading it throws me back in my progress of healing...


My trust is gone too, and I think that would be the hardest thing to restore. I may never get a chance to worry about that though as my H seems pretty set that our marriages over.

Don't you hate it when you are doing well, then they toss you a bone which sets you right back?!


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## Honeystly (Mar 1, 2012)

How are your kids coping with this?


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

> How are your kids coping with this?


up to now, surprisingly good. But until last sunday I was at home like every second day or so (at least for a short while) so it must seem to them that daddy is still kind of around...

my wife wrote me an email in which she basically tried to apologize and explain herself. What irritated me most was how insecure and doubting she seemed about quite everything...anyway, she also wrote to feel "close" to OM.
I got into mailing forth and back with my wife...I even asked her if she wanted to call me (no answer). It looks like I am still weak. While I am doing pretty well if I dont have any interactions with her I fall right back into fantasizing her coming back and fighting for me once we start to email just a little... I feel so bad again..


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Being with someone is similar any other habit or addiction. It takes about three weeks of no contact to break the addiction of being with someone.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

> Being with someone is similar any other habit or addiction. It takes about three weeks of no contact to break the addiction of being with someone.


thats exactly what I thought many times...problem is my wife showing up every once in a while is ruining all my progress in getting "clean" time after time..

Since having to deal with all that emotional stuff (and particularly since reading on this forum  ) I am really amazed how stereotype and scripted all the "underlying processes" of our emotional experiencing is. It seems to be the same patterns ever and ever again. Nevertheless we keep thinking that all what happens to us is soo special, unique, colossal or whathever..


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

'What has been will be again,
What has been done will be done again;
There is nothing new under the sun.'
(Ecclesiastes 1:9)

Patterns underlie life. From Fibonacci numbers in nature to the patterns in math I teach my students. Patterns are predictable. There is security in predictability. There is comfort in security. Human beings seek comfort.

There is no comfort in the patterns you refer to unless we acknowlege them and use that knowledge. We can take comfort in the realization that we are not the only ones going through what we are going through. There is comfort in that. We can also use the understanding of the patterns to make changes in how we act and react. If we know that a certain pattern results in an undesirable outcome, we can change it. To a different pattern.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

> We can take comfort in the realization that we are not the only ones going through what we are going through. There is comfort in that. We can also use the understanding of the patterns to make changes in how we act and react. If we know that a certain pattern results in an undesirable outcome, we can change it. To a different pattern.


very true... particularly that there is confort in the fact that many people have to go down the same path...

funny you are a math teacher, I too teach maths at a university (and I do some research)


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> very true... particularly that there is confort in the fact that many people have to go down the same path...
> 
> funny you are a math teacher, I too teach maths at a university (and I do some research)


LOL! I!'m not laughing at you, Guy. I'm laughing at the vision of me teaching math! I am SO bad with numbers, it's not funny. The only reason I got out of high school (a pass in math was required) was that they scaled all the marks. I am a special ed teacher. I teach remedial math to elementary students struggling with it. There are times when it's the blind leading the blind. I can teach reading and writing with my eyes closed, but math.....!

I wish I were better at math. Since I becaming teacher, I have learned some of how it works and it is fascinating. Particularly the patterns within it. I was actually surprised to learn that it all makes sense, because it never did to me!


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> ...problem is my wife showing up every once in a while is ruining all my progress in getting "clean" time after time..
> 
> ...Nevertheless we keep thinking that all what happens to us is soo special, unique, colossal or whathever..


One of the most frustrating things about going through something like this which is "colossal, devastating, unique, etc" is that you can know how you should feel and what you should do but it does not matter because your emotions drive you instead of your logic driving them. Try to keep emotional distance when you see her even if you have to act nice to do it. She'll throw out carrots if she feels you pulling back. Just do what you can to wait out your emotions and then make decisions and choices from a position of self respect, expectations, and logic. ( I'm not sure if I could do it while going through this but I would know I should ).

I'm a very stable, logic oriented guy most of the time but I was a mess going through my divorce and leading up to it. I'm just glad I had it stuck in my head that changing her job was a showstopper and that I'm more stubborn than most. If she was trying to reconcile I would have folded I'm sure even though the signs were there that it would continue. No doubt about it EMOTIONS SUCK. 

These dynamics are really hard to overcome when someone runs from you then it makes you insecure and unsure about yourself, and you want to chase which makes them run harder and feel more emotionally in charge. Then you get tired of chasing and that's when they feel like they're losing something and they come back long enough to re-establish emotional power. I think this is kind of human nature and not always intentional.

Disclaimer . I'm not trained but I really do believe this stuff. And don't beat yourself up if you are jerked around by your emotions some.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> One of the most frustrating things about going through something like this which is "colossal, devastating, unique, etc" is that you can know how you should feel and what you should do but it does not matter because your emotions drive you instead of your logic driving them. Try to keep emotional distance when you see her even if you have to act nice to do it. She'll throw out carrots if she feels you pulling back. Just do what you can to wait out your emotions and then make decisions and choices from a position of self respect, expectations, and logic. ( I'm not sure if I could do it while going through this but I would know I should ).
> 
> I'm a very stable, logic oriented guy most of the time but I was a mess going through my divorce and leading up to it. I'm just glad I had it stuck in my head that changing her job was a showstopper and that I'm more stubborn than most. If she was trying to reconcile I would have folded I'm sure even though the signs were there that it would continue. No doubt about it EMOTIONS SUCK. a
> 
> ...


Thundarr has put it very well, Guy.

The only thing I would say is that emotions only suck when they hurt. One day that hurt will be gone. The good emotions will be back. And it will be like the sun rising.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Frostflower said:


> Thundarr has put it very well, Guy.
> 
> The only thing I would say is that emotions only suck when they hurt. One day that hurt will be gone. The good emotions will be back. And it will be like the sun rising.


Humbly thanks you and agree 100% with the addition :smthumbup:


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> Humbly thanks you and agree 100% with the addition :smthumbup:


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

dear friends,

I havent been on the site for a while and I kind of dont feel like giving a full detail update. The most recent cornerstones however are summarized below:

The OMs wife contacted me to have a talk (we know each other well as the OM and his wife where close "friends of the family"). She told me lots of details (it seems OM is much more honest with his wife than my wife with me..). Many things where of the "in your face" sort again. OM told his wife that he wanted to stay but refused not to see my stbxw ever again which (for good reason) is a show stopper for her. My wife on the other side seems to be ready to sacrifice whatever it takes to get into a relationship with OM. I really cant see why btw OM is an average looking guy who is totally broken (his w payed almost everything for them, including taxes, rent, vacations and food..lol) and never has accomplished anything but being a "victim" in his live.

Thanks for your support again..


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> dear friends,
> 
> I havent been on the site for a while and I kind of dont feel like giving a full detail update. The most recent cornerstones however are summarized below:
> 
> ...


I don't understand the thinking of men who want to stay married but keep their OW's. Imagine the fireworks if it was his wife saying that to him! Hopefully his wife has kicked himout.

He sounds like a real loser.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

yep she kicked him out the second she knew about what was going on...he lives with his parents at the moment. I will stop paying the rent for my wifes appartement the second he will move in ..


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> yep she kicked him out the second she knew about what was going on...he lives with his parents at the moment. I will stop paying the rent for my wifes appartement the second he will move in ..


You're paying her rent? Why?


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

because my kids live with her.. (and legally it would be problematic to just stop I think..)


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> because my kids live with her.. (and legally it would be problematic to just stop I think..)


What does your lawyer say about it? I wouldn't give her a dime that isn't court ordered!


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

> What does your lawyer say about it? I wouldn't give her a dime that isn't court ordered!


I dont have a lawyer yet. The reason to be "nice guy" at the moment is to not make her switch into "fight mode" regarding our divorce case. If she wouldnt agree to divorce, then I had to wait 2 years in which my salary would increase significantly.. I am trying to set up a diy divorce, just need her to sign that paper and I am fine..


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

at the moment she gets $4500 each month from my total of roughly $6200...that sucks


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> I dont have a lawyer yet. The reason to be "nice guy" at the moment is to not make her switch into "fight mode" regarding our divorce case. If she wouldnt agree to divorce, then I had to wait 2 years in which my salary would increase significantly.. I am trying to set up a diy divorce, just need her to sign that paper and I am fine..





stupidGuy said:


> at the moment she gets $4500 each month from my total of roughly $6200...that sucks


:banghead:


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> because my kids live with her.. (and legally it would be problematic to just stop I think..)


Hmm. tough one to call.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

I know in my state all that money would be considered a gift and you would pay back child support anyway.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> because my kids live with her.. (and legally it would be problematic to just stop I think..)


Does she work?


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

she doesnt work. She agreed to work one day per week, she however lacks some enthusiasm in actually finding a job...Problem with lawyers is that they are insanely expensive over here and since she gets more or less all my money... Of course I could stop paying her the money but as I mentioned before this is problematic in many ways:

1. It would hurt my children
2. it could make her switch to "fight mode" in which case I needed to wait 2 years before even start the divorce... And it would be very costly as well
3. It would be most likely illegal to just cease the payments

I really dont know what to do...


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> she doesnt work. She agreed to work one day per week, she however lacks some enthusiasm in actually finding a job...Problem with lawyers is that they are insanely expensive over here and since she gets more or less all my money... Of course I could stop paying her the money but as I mentioned before this is problematic in many ways:
> 
> 1. It would hurt my children
> 2. it could make her switch to "fight mode" in which case I needed to wait 2 years before even start the divorce... And it would be very costly as well
> ...


I don't know, Guy. She is living with another man (I forget, does he work?), she's not working and she's getting more than half your salary. You need to talk to a lawyer as soon as you can. Yes, they are expensive, but it could cost you much more in the long run. I know you want to do what's right for your children, but you are being used. I don't know about where you live, but here lawyers give you a free half hour and you are not obligated to go any further with them. Even if you have to pay, it will be worth it to find out your rights. Here there is a formula to estimate child care and spousal support. If its the same where you live, the lawyer can work it out for you and give it to you in writing. I would give her a copy and don't pay a cent more than you legally have to. Or, you could continue paying to keep the peace if you feel you need to, but give her the paper and tell her that anything you pay above and beyond that number will come off her final settlement. Whatever you decide to do, make her give you receipts other wise it will be her word against yours.


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## stupidGuy (Jul 13, 2012)

yea, I will have to cantact a lawyer, rather today than tomorrow. It just feels soo wrong "setting up weapons" against somebody I spent half of my live to to care after and to protect from all sorts of things... kind of acting the opposite of how I would if my live was still how it used to be...


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

stupidGuy said:


> yea, I will have to cantact a lawyer, rather today than tomorrow. It just feels soo wrong "setting up weapons" against somebody I spent half of my live to to care after and to protect from all sorts of things... kind of acting the opposite of how I would if my live was still how it used to be...


Keep in mind the "weapons" you are setting up are not offensive, but defensive. There is no dishonor in defending yourself!


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