# Discovery of an affair



## Craterus

Hi all - newbie here. I’ve seen read some really good advice and perspective on this forum – particularly stuff that relates directly to my situation so thanks to all in advance for those that have contributed their stories and experiences already. Frankly I wish I had found this place 2 or 3 months ago or I wouldnt have made some of the mistakes I have. 
Here is my particular tale of woe. Married/together 11 years,2 year old girl and 5 year old boy. I’ve worked from home since before the kids were born and run my family business. So I’ve been lucky enough to be just as involved in the care and upbringing of the kids as my wife has.
6 months or so ago I started to get a bad feeling that mywife and my best mate were just a little too close, lots of texting, I mean constant.. my mates partner is/was friends with my wife, it was two very close families so I didn’t really think much of it at first. I was friends with and spoke to his partner fairly regularly so it seemed churlish of me and was pointed out to me regularly that it was no different to that kind of relationship. Anyway, it got to a point a few months ago that I told my wife I was concerned about their friendship, she dismissed me as paranoid – this went on for a few weeks her always saying I was crazy and not being fair. Then she said in one argument that she was very confused about how she felt about me now, that my paranoia was driving her crazy etc etc. at that point something was really up – so I looked at her phone bill and noticed a LOT of texts to him that included picture messages. So, (and here’s my reveal atbeing a bit of a prick) I installed spyware on her phone (it is in my name) and in two days saw that they were having at least a “textual” affair. I could only sit on it for two days before I lost my bananas and told her what I had done to her phone and that I thought they were having an affair. Thing is – everything I could see could be explained away as not being anything more than a textual fling by a very good liar. She absolutely denied that anything physical ha shappened... and I believed her. Me and the mate went for a beer or ten and I believed him too.
Turns out they were both lying – to many things didn’t stackup with what they said so I fixed an old phone of hers that was busted and saw that they were arranging meet ups and discussed at least a kiss but it was no doubt more. Long and short – it was a proper affair.

Wife lost her mind so much at the phone monitoring (I have since read on this forum that reflecting the anger is a classic cheaters tactic) , she has trust issues that aren’t anything to do with me stemming from a messed up childhood so at the time I did understand that- Anyway, I haven’t had the balls to tell her I went into her old phone and found out it was a physical thing. It doesn’t matter really because she I think she's checked out of the marriage – in her head she did a longtime ago I think. She says that it is over at this point and she doesn’t see away past what’s happened. 

The thing is that I forgive the affair and would probably work on saving the marriage if that was on the table – still love her I guess. Never pictured my life ahead without her, What that says about me I am not sure , I can understand her having her head turned.... but I can’t forgive the fact she let me think for months I was going crazy and that she still can’t and wont admit the truth about them. She won’t either and she justifies her actions as “these things happen for a reason”.

I’ve been to a therapist, went to one for the first time in my life BEFORE I found out anything because I thought the paranoia about them was my issue – I’ve been back a few times to the same lady who tells me I have to be prepared to let go and deal with the reality that my wife was happy to lie to me and let me think I was crazy and that she can’t be trusted. I know I have to deal with that fact – but still at this point it feels like she is the one leaving me and me holding on to something that isn’t there. I tell myself I am holding on for the sake of the kids – but it is not just that. It’s also driving me crazy that she is still talking to him all the time so it is quite obvious that she isn’t going to fight for us.

Mixed in with this is two beautiful kids who I will fight tooth and nail to get 50-50 custody of, and can demonstrate my involvement in their upbringing and can make my work fit in around them so I think I have a good chance at that. Finances will be complicated by my ownership of a business and the like – but at this point I don’t care about the money and she says neither does she. I can tell from some of these posts that that might changeover time though so I am sensible enough to know we need to get ducks in a row now while it is still “amicable”. We are still in the same house though different rooms. We are still trying to bring up the kids together as friendsbut the co-habitation can only last so long I know.

Not quite sure what I am asking advice on here now that I have written it out – I’ve been doing a lot of writing on instruction from the therapist but it feels like talking to yourself a bit! Guess this is just about getting things out a bit to an audience. 

If anyone has any thoughts on what to do (and what NOT to do) right now that would be great.. I really wish I had been able to hold my fire before confronting her on the phone stuff so I could have exposed the affair on the first go round but that genie out of the bottle –if I had read this forum before I would have waited!..the other take home message I have got from my day or so reading through threads is that I have to do the 180 in my attitude to her, I am totally being the one that is trying to save this marriage. She is being very clear and cool that at this point she see's us as over - and I'm trying everything in my power to save it. I can tell from everyone elses experience that won't work. So the 180 starts today.

My big conundrum is if/how/when do I tell her that I know it was an affair. I told her the other day that "one day we'll have an honest conversation about what happened" so I think she knows I know. But it feels like just showing her proof I know doesn't make her honest, it just make her properly caught.. Do I keep that powder dry?

Thanks all in advance


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## Papillon

I don't have too much advice to give, I just wanted to say that our situations are so similar and I am so sorry for what has happened to you.

My H responded in the same way when I (very stupidly) let him hear the recording I made of him and his assistant together. In which he tells her to take her bra off, she jokes about his wedding ring "falling off", they say things like "what if SHE walked in NOW?" and "we should get a couch for the office to practice dictation", and I could hear them kissing. Rather than ever admit that what he did was horribly wrong, he lost his **** over the fact that I made a recording, and has never gotten over that. He says he doesn't trust me anymore, forgetting the fact that it is I who shouldn't trust HIM.

So I think your wife's response is probably a common one. As for whether you should tell her about the old phone - I wouldn't at this point. What good it would do? You've already said she is acting like she is done with the marriage, what more is there to add? 

I was told here long ago to record and snoop but NEVER to give up my sources, and I did, and it made it even harder to proceed. If you tell her HOW you know it was physical, you are only giving her more ammunition against you. You could, however, tell her that you know it was physical and not tell her how you know. You could just reiterate that you know the truth and leave her wondering. That's what I should have done. 

I also completely understand wanting to try to save the marriage, for the kids especially. It is so hard to understand how the person who is supposed to love you more than anyone in the world can so quickly turn into someone who would betray you and then act cold and distant. It is the worst feeling in the world. 

So many here will give you great advice. I wish I were better at following their advice and I'm working on that. I hope for you that you can keep yourself together for your kids and remember that they should be your focus now.


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## honcho

You probably should talk to a lawyer first about divorce/her affair. The information may or may not be beneficial in court. 

She is doing the all too familiar game of admitting to only what you know. She is showing no willingness to save the marriage. Has she discussed divorce or just threatened it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine

Sorry that you are in this place. Your wife has been leading you a merry dance and trickle truth-ing and making you think you are the one who is crazy and paranoid, now you know.

You are completely right to do the 180, you are doing this for you, as you need to get yourself sorted when all of this comes to a head and be in a good place personally.
You need to be ready to leave the marriage if necessary.
You should also organise a lawyer, as you will probably need one, sort out your business, etc money may become an issue in the future.

I would tell her you know it was a physical affair and that you have proof but don't tell her anything else. If she tries to call your bluff, give her a bit of info (to show that you do have proof) and let her wonder how you know, do not tell her anymore as she is not entitled to know. This information may come in useful later on.

The OM's partner (your friend) also needs to know about this also as she is entitled to make decisions about her future and the future of their marriage. In no way are you responsible for any fall out from this disclosure. that is the full responsibility of your WW and the OM for crossing a line. The partner may already suspect?

You have to let your own family, her family, friends etc. know about this so as to blow her cover, do not hide or make excuses for your WW and cover this up. If this is fully exposed you may see a completely different reaction, but you continue with the 180. It is likely as things stand that she will blame you for the divorce she wants and being unhappy in her marriage. She must be exposed.
If she shows any remorse as a result of these actions then it is entirely up to you whether you want her back or not.


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## Craterus

> So many here will give you great advice. I wish I were better at following their advice and I'm working on that. I hope for you that you can keep yourself together for your kids and remember that they should be your focus now.


Thanks - I wish I had read the advice on here before, especially about not revealing source of snooping and the 180 stuff. Anyway, guess I have to start somewhere and that will begin now as will focusing on myself and kids rather than her as best I can.



> I also completely understand wanting to try to save the marriage, for the kids especially. It is so hard to understand how the person who is supposed to love you more than anyone in the world can so quickly turn into someone who would betray you and then act cold and distant. It is the worst feeling in the world.


This is the thing isnt it Papillon - It is like there is a stranger in their body. Guess none of this happened to either of us in a vaccuum and for no reason, but it is hard to take the fact that they are turning their betrayal around on us.





> You probably should talk to a lawyer first about divorce/her affair. The information may or may not be beneficial in court.
> 
> She is doing the all too familiar game of admitting to only what you know. She is showing no willingness to save the marriage. Has she discussed divorce or just threatened it?


Definitely some very familiar games - all from the play book from what I can see on here. She is showing little willingness to save the marriage, though she does say she would have left on the day I told her I had spied on her phone if it wasnt for the kids and our life together... We havent discussed Divorce. Here in Australia there is a "no fault" law that means even if the other party has cheated it makes no difference in court settlements and the like (thats my understanding from my brief free call to a lawyer anyway)


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## honcho

Has the affair ended? Usually when you start hearing things like they don't care about money etc the affair is still going on. They just want freedom to pursue the new "soulmate".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4

Best advice you can get is to immediately contact an attorney, get the finances straight , then get divorced as soon as possible. I know that many posters will advise you to wait, etc, but that will only increase the amount of fallout for you and your kids. You should properly have no concern for your "wife " ....at all, except as it affects the divorce and parenting agreements. But TALK TO A LAWYER , FIRST.


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## Craterus

aine said:


> The OM's partner (your friend) also needs to know about this also as she is entitled to make decisions about her future and the future of their marriage. In no way are you responsible for any fall out from this disclosure. that is the full responsibility of your WW and the OM for crossing a line. The partner may already suspect?
> 
> You have to let your own family, her family, friends etc. know about this so as to blow her cover, do not hide or make excuses for your WW and cover this up. If this is fully exposed you may see a completely different reaction, but you continue with the 180. It is likely as things stand that she will blame you for the divorce she wants and being unhappy in her marriage. She must be exposed.
> If she shows any remorse as a result of these actions then it is entirely up to you whether you want her back or not.


This I would like to do - it is made complicated by the fact that my son (5 years) is in the same class at school as his Son and they are best friends - (though I know they are only young). If I blow this up and tell his partner, she is a bit of a crazy person and frankly it will/could get nasty and I don't want that for my lad. Maybe thats just me making excuses but I do not want the kids to get tangled up. The OM's wife (they have been seperated for a long time but still in the same house) is the sort of woman to get nasty



Rookie4 said:


> Best advice you can get is to immediately contact an attorney, get the finances straight , then get divorced as soon as possible. I know that many posters will advise you to wait, etc, but that will only increase the amount of fallout for you and your kids. You should properly have no concern for your "wife " ....at all, except as it affects the divorce and parenting agreements. But TALK TO A LAWYER , FIRST.


Noted - man that is some tough advice though. Are there any happy endings ever to these kind of things? I can't find many trawling through these boards.. 



> Has the affair ended? Usually when you start hearing things like they don't care about money etc the affair is still going on. They just want freedom to pursue the new "soulmate".


 - I think the physical side has ended, before I new the truth OM and I went for a beer and I get the feeling it ended the next day... But they are still talking all the time.. texts and phone calls.. so, PA ended, EA no - I don't think so


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## Rookie4

Craterus said:


> This I would like to do - it is made complicated by the fact that my son (5 years) is in the same class at school as his Son and they are best friends - (though I know they are only young). If I blow this up and tell his partner, she is a bit of a crazy person and frankly it will/could get nasty and I don't want that for my lad. Maybe thats just me making excuses but I do not want the kids to get tangled up. The OM's wife (they have been seperated for a long time but still in the same house) is the sort of woman to get nasty
> 
> 
> 
> Noted - man that is some tough advice though. Are there any happy endings ever to these kind of things? I can't find many trawling through these boards..
> 
> - I think the physical side has ended, before I new the truth OM and I went for a beer and I get the feeling it ended the next day... But they are still talking all the time.. texts and phone calls.. so, PA ended, EA no - I don't think so


Sorry, but there are rarely ever any "happy" endings to an affair....mostly survivor stories. The longer you wait, the harder on your kids.


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## Craterus

Thanks rookie4, that's the impression I've got from these boards. Tough to hear but think I've got a lot of toughening up to do with this situation. 

The comment - need to be prepared to lose a marriage to save it sometimes rings very true. 

Tell me... I know all the stuff that it is my wife that's done the betraying not my mate..but he was a very good friend and I've helped him out financially and all sorts over the years. The way he talked about me in the texts made my blood boil. I know precisely how to ruin the guy emotionally and financially, and it wouldn't be illegal.. How tempting would it be for you all to do it. He has to know there are consequences for his actions at least surely.


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## Rookie4

Revenge...later. First take care of your kids and yourself. You need to develop a tougher mindset. The comment, "be prepared to lose a marriage save it" is a losers mentality. You need to learn that your wife is now the enemy, and everything you thought about her is false......she has proven it by her actions and words. Don't be one of the BS's who mistake weakness for love.


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## honcho

Craterus said:


> Thanks rookie4, that's the impression I've got from these boards. Tough to hear but think I've got a lot of toughening up to do with this situation.
> 
> The comment - need to be prepared to lose a marriage to save it sometimes rings very true.
> 
> Tell me... I know all the stuff that it is my wife that's done the betraying not my mate..but he was a very good friend and I've helped him out financially and all sorts over the years. The way he talked about me in the texts made my blood boil. I know precisely how to ruin the guy emotionally and financially, and it wouldn't be illegal.. How tempting would it be for you all to do it. He has to know there are consequences for his actions at least surely.


Ultimately the OM isn't your problem, your wife is. You don't want to do it but you should inform the om wife. 

The affair is still going on, you have no shot at any reconciliation with Mr. Perfect in the picture. The quickest way to end fantasyland is to expose it. Her "affair fog" needs to be broken. Your concerned about your child but your wife caused this, not you. It will just get "more complicated" the longer this goes on.

This sucks and no one wants to be in your position. I am sorry you find yourself in it. Much of the advice will go against what your heart is saying. 

Dont kid yourself the first opportunity they get this will be physical again. They have no intentions to stop, they are just getting sneakier.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine

Craterus said:


> Thanks rookie4, that's the impression I've got from these boards. Tough to hear but think I've got a lot of toughening up to do with this situation.
> 
> The comment - need to be prepared to lose a marriage to save it sometimes rings very true.
> 
> Tell me... I know all the stuff that it is my wife that's done the betraying not my mate..but he was a very good friend and I've helped him out financially and all sorts over the years. The way he talked about me in the texts made my blood boil. I know precisely how to ruin the guy emotionally and financially, and it wouldn't be illegal.. How tempting would it be for you all to do it. He has to know there are consequences for his actions at least surely.


You mate has also betrayed you, a dog doesn't **** in it's own back yard and he has! You owe him absolutely nothing.


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## Chaparral

The only chance you have of saving your family and the best way out of this mess divorce or reconciliation is the same. Expose to everyone. Her family, his family, his wife, workplace , everyone. You say you can ruin him, do it. Let your wife see him crawl. Talk about a fog breaker.

The only way to win is to be strong, honest and forthright.

" faint heart fair maiden never won!"

Show your wife you won't be messed with or f*cked with. You he already found what being weak and needy and in denial gets you. Man up.


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## alte Dame

You really need to tell the OM's partner (wife?). She may be crazy, but crazy people still have a right to know what is going on in their own lives. People make endless excuses for not exposing to the OM/OW, but the excuses never wash for me. It is, first and foremost, the moral thing to do. It is also the only card you have right now. I would tell the OM's partner and not let your WW know that you are doing it.


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## Chaparral

You can't completely protect your kids from your wife's actions.

Tell the OM's wife. You don't know how far back this goes. She may not know why everything has gone to hell. Your friend stabbed you, your children, and his children in the back. If you don't have the courage to blow his sh!t up why do you suppose you deserve to be your kids dad.

Of course if you have given up on the marriage, just file and let the love birds nest together. Your best friend can be their other part time dad. Spit.


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## Chaparral

Google bff's thread. There is life after divorce.


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## Papillon

Most people here will disagree with me on this, because the general consensus is to expose to everyone. I just want to say that I did that, and I do regret it in some cases. I really wish I had not told my parents the whole story because now they won't ever be able to be in the same room with my H without a huge deal of awkwardness and anger, whether we stay married or get divorced. It was very, very painful for them to learn the whole truth as well. However, I did expose to my H's parents and I'm glad I did because they held him to account. Not that it mattered or affected his behavior n the end. 

So I'm not saying not to expose, because I think mostly that is good advice, but just think about the ramifications of who you are exposing to before you do that. I just wish I had not told my parents the whole story.


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## Chaparral

Papillon said:


> Most people here will disagree with me on this, because the general consensus is to expose to everyone. I just want to say that I did that, and I do regret it in some cases. I really wish I had not told my parents the whole story because now they won't ever be able to be in the same room with my H without a huge deal of awkwardness and anger, whether we stay married or get divorced. It was very, very painful for them to learn the whole truth as well. However, I did expose to my H's parents and I'm glad I did because they held him to account. Not that it mattered or affected his behavior n the end.
> 
> So I'm not saying not to expose, because I think mostly that is good advice, but just think about the ramifications of who you are exposing to before you do that. I just wish I had not told my parents the whole story.


It doesn't sound like he came around in the end so why do you regret your parents knowing the true him.

I would not expose to my parents if I thought they would not be able to get over it if we reconciled. Exposure is the tool to stop affairs. It doesn't always work. It doesn't always save marriages.


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## happyman64

craterus

Have you ever thought through why the OMW is crazy?

maybe her cheating lying husband has been running her through the trickle truth (TT) gauntlet like your wife has done to you for months.....

I believe in tough love.

I believe in consequences.

I believe your wayward wife deserves tough love. That includes exposure of the affair and the 180.

Start with exposure with her parents and siblings. Maybe close friends. Expose to them who your wife has become. Who she truly is today. The truth has a way of bringing the affair to the light.

It does not mean she will stop the affair or give up and come back to you.

But it is a way of injecting reality into her life.

The 180 is for you to detach, heal and become strong again.

You also need to show the OM consequences. If you have the ability to inject pain or stress into his life then so be it.

I believe from what you have read that they lost all respect for you as a man, husband and a friend.

Now go show them just who they are screwing with.

They deserve it. But most importantly they require it.

HM


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## Lostinthought61

I would tell your wife that she has two options and only two, she confesses to the entire affair and absolutely no contact (including you) or you will reach out to his wife and let the cards fall where they fall....you have to stay strong and don't let her think about it...you want to pull the trigger right away.


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## bfree

Craterus said:


> Thanks rookie4, that's the impression I've got from these boards. Tough to hear but think I've got a lot of toughening up to do with this situation.
> 
> The comment - need to be prepared to lose a marriage to save it sometimes rings very true.
> 
> Tell me... I know all the stuff that it is my wife that's done the betraying not my mate..but he was a very good friend and I've helped him out financially and all sorts over the years. The way he talked about me in the texts made my blood boil. I know precisely how to ruin the guy emotionally and financially, and it wouldn't be illegal.. How tempting would it be for you all to do it. He has to know there are consequences for his actions at least surely.


If more people had to face the consequences of their behavior guys like us wouldn't have quite as many shyte sandwiches to eat.


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## bfree

alte Dame said:


> You really need to tell the OM's partner (wife?). She may be crazy, but crazy people still have a right to know what is going on in their own lives. People make endless excuses for not exposing to the OM/OW, but the excuses never wash for me. It is, first and foremost, the moral thing to do. It is also the only card you have right now. I would tell the OM's partner and not let your WW know that you are doing it.


Maybe his wife is crazy because he has gaslighted her into "crazy."


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## ConanHub

Get your divorce drawn up first. Then expose your wife and destroy your "mate", what a joke, that one.

Also might want to read No More Mr. Nice Guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

Sorry you are here, but I am glad you found us.

What country are you in?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Satya

Your "friend" should be your ex friend. 

It's nice that you love your wife, even after what she's done. Sadly, she doesn't love only you or she wouldn't have cheated. I'd go so far as to say she doesn't love you at all but that would be unfair of me as I don't know how her brain has rationalized all of this. 

We make a choice by being and staying monogamous, and now you know that she isn't a one-man woman. You want to stay with someone like that? Thats your decision to make, but just know that you weren't her only choice and you weren't even important enough to stop her selfishness from taking hold.


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## Morcoll

Xenote said:


> I would tell your wife that she has two options and only two, she confesses to the entire affair and absolutely no contact (including you) or you will reach out to his wife and let the cards fall where they fall....you have to stay strong and don't let her think about it...you want to pull the trigger right away.


First of all, this is giving the POSOM a chance to have his story ready for when she confronts him (he probably already does but no point in giving him advance notice), and secondly, he should tell his wife regardless of what OP wife does going forward.


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## OldWolf57

Dude, I really don't know how to respond without jumping all over you for not nuking this pos, the way he has played you.

Are you afraid he will beat you up??


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## OldWolf57

YOU are really considering staying with a woman who would make you believe you are crazy, just so she can still screw this guy. 

Here you are sitting on evidence that shows why his marriage exploded. HE is sleeping with your wife.

Go back and read your first post. What would you tell a friend in your position??

You have 1 job now, that's to make sure everyone knows what kind of slime he really is.

That old phone is a gold mine, so treat it like that.

As for the ww, tell her nothing, just go show his wife the evidence, since you won't do anything with it.


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## Bananapeel

A little advice about the kids. My WW had an affair and the kids from both sides are friends. What we did was sat the kids down and asked them if they had classmates in school that they had a fight/disagreement with and were no longer friends with. After they said "yes", we asked for those kids names. Then we told them that adults have fights to and sometimes stop being friends and we are no longer friends with the other couple. We explained that the kids could still be friends and play at school but that we are no longer going to each other's homes or doing any group activities together. When they asked why, we just told them that it was an adult problem and had nothing to do with them. That explanation worked really well for my kids and there hasn't been any problems. As long as you remember the kid's ages you can explain things at their level of understanding. 

As far as doing the 180. I take a slightly different approach. If you know who you are, what you stand for, and what you are willing to tolerate, you don't need to completely detach. You just need to do what is right for you and make your own decisions, regardless of how your spouse has behaved. With kids involved it is always a delicate situation and you both need to be able to set aside your differences and be mature/respectful/supportive for the good of the kids. I get along with my STBXW most of the time and accept her for who she has become, and also know it is not the type of person I am willing to have as my spouse. However, with that information I am still able to be her friend and support her, because I need an emotionally stable woman to be watching my kids, when I don't have them. 

I agree with everyone else that you absolutely need to talk to the OM's wife. It is 100% the right thing to do. Remember that if you can't make good choices in a time of crisis, it says a lot about your character. Don't let your WW or her affair define you. You get to do that for yourself, so man up and do the right thing.


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## Marduk

#1 shut up and back up all data off-site. Draw up a timeline of what you know and keep that there, too. A locked drawer at the office or something.

#2 Get your divorce papers drawn up. Fair, but use the threat of exposing her affair far and wide as leverage to make sure it's fair. Do it now, while she's still in la-la land.

#3 when she signs, you cut all ties and go 100% dark. Except for the kids. Bunker down, separate living arrangements, all that. The fog will start to lift, and she will start blamestorming to all that will listen.

#4 expose far and wide anyway. Not for revenge. Because it will protect you and the kids long-term against whatever BS she starts spinning against you, and the OMW deserves to know.


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## Rookie4

marduk said:


> #1 shut up and back up all data off-site. Draw up a timeline of what you know and keep that there, too. A locked drawer at the office or something.
> 
> #2 Get your divorce papers drawn up. Fair, but use the threat of exposing her affair far and wide as leverage to make sure it's fair. Do it now, while she's still in la-la land.
> 
> #3 when she signs, you cut all ties and go 100% dark. Except for the kids. Bunker down, separate living arrangements, all that. The fog will start to lift, and she will start blamestorming to all that will listen.
> 
> #4 expose far and wide anyway. Not for revenge. Because it will protect you and the kids long-term against whatever BS she starts spinning against you, and the OMW deserves to know.


OP, pay attention to this post very carefully. This is exactly what you should do, and in the proper order. Doing anything about the OM, at this time will only cause even more hard feelings and will complicate your parenting relationship with your wife, enormously. GET your own ducks in a row , FIRST.


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## Rookie4

BTW, do NOT, NOT, NOT have ANY physical confrontation with the OM, OF ANY KIND. This is the 21st Century and not Dodge City, you will do your kids no good at all, if you are in jail.


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## badmemory

I think that I can say with certainty that your wife believes she is in control. She thinks that she can string this affair along, while she gaslights you into submission. How dare you snoop on her and ruin her trust. Never mind that the monitoring was proven justified; that's beside the point. At best, you are now her plan B.

She needs a wake up call and so do you.

Your mindset should be that you are heading straight for divorce. If the sudden realization that she's losing her husband for cheating on him doesn't turn her completely around; nothing else likely will.

Implement the 180 to detach from her.

Talk to an attorney and start the D process.

Separate your finances.

Expose her and the POSOM. Don't bargain with her over the exposure. Just do it and don't tell her about it.

If she doesn't turn around, you'll be much better off finishing the D. If she "appears" to turn around; you can always postpone the D; but check back with us first. She's got a lot of consequences to accept and a ton of remorse to demonstrate. We can help you sort out if her remorse is genuine.

We say this a lot here - You've got to be willing to end your marriage to have the best chance of saving it.

Keep posting.


----------



## Openminded

Tell the OM's wife. You would want her to tell you if she knew and you didn't. It needs to be a level playing field. Right now, it isn't.


----------



## Doyle

Get your divorce drawn up first. Then expose your wife and destroy your "mate".

Damn right


----------



## Dyokemm

Get the paperwork ready for filing D.

Then call OMW and blow up the A...in addition, you alluded that you have legal things you could do to destroy POSOM emotionally and financially/professionally....unleash these at the same time.....wreck this POS's life completely and give him something else to worry about than pursuing your WW or trying to assist her while you go through D.

Expose the A to both your families and all other friends right after.

When your WW comes screeching at you about exposing the A and destroying POSOM, just calmly hand her the papers serving her for D and tell her you are done with her worthless, cheating a**.

Blowing up the A and filing for D are the only chance you have of 'slapping' your WW back into reality....maybe at that time she might wake up and start taking the actions you need to see in order to consider saving the M, if that's what you want.

Personally though, I would follow through on the D and go find a much better woman.

A woman who can lie and gaslight like this for months, putting you through torture, all so she can continue banging her best friend's POS WH is beyond worthless in my book.


----------



## weightlifter

OP are you Aussie? If so. Find stuff out. Divorce is Australia is a mine field.

BTW I agree with above. Look up poster BFF and read his thread. Crushing defeat with wife affair leads him to an EPIC win with new love and a new family. The BFF thread should be stickied.


----------



## badmemory

One thing I might add as you communicate with or confront her; and it's one of the toughest things for BS's to do. Stay calm and confident. Don't resort to name calling. Don't lash out at her. Don't sink to her level if she does it herself. Read the 180 and live it.

Instead, use your anger to motivate your actions; and let those actions speak, for what she can expect from you going forward. Divorce papers and exposure speak volumes without you having to say a word. If there is even a remote possibility that you could consider R, that is the best approach with wayward spouses. In fact it's the best approach regardless.


----------



## ConanHub

Rookie4 said:


> BTW, do NOT, NOT, NOT have ANY physical confrontation with the OM, OF ANY KIND. This is the 21st Century and not Dodge City, you will do your kids no good at all, if you are in jail.


Unless he agrees to a "friendly" sparring session! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tobin

Craterus said:


> The thing is that I forgive the affair and would probably work on saving the marriage if that was on the table


How could you possible even consider forgiving an affair to which she neither admits nor shows remorse?


----------



## jsmart

Dyokemm said:


> Get the paperwork ready for filing D.
> 
> Then call OMW and blow up the A...in addition, you alluded that you have legal things you could do to destroy POSOM emotionally and financially/professionally....unleash these at the same time.....wreck this POS's life completely and give him something else to worry about than pursuing your WW or trying to assist her while you go through D.
> 
> Expose the A to both your families and all other friends right after.
> 
> When your WW comes screeching at you about exposing the A and destroying POSOM, just calmly hand her the papers serving her for D and tell her you are done with her worthless, cheating a**.
> 
> Blowing up the A and filing for D are the only chance you have of 'slapping' your WW back into reality....maybe at that time she might wake up and start taking the actions you need to see in order to consider saving the M, if that's what you want.
> 
> Personally though, I would follow through on the D and go find a much better woman.
> 
> A woman who can lie and gaslight like this for months, putting you through torture, all so she can continue banging her best friend's POS WH is beyond worthless in my book.


This is an excellent post. I believe that you will get results following this advice but I agree that WW doesn't sound like she's worth the effort. 

Reading hundreds of threads on here and similar sites has taught me that once a woman goes rogue, she is not worth the effort. It will be much easier to win a new woman's heart than to turn your WW heart back to you.


----------



## jsmart

We know you're reeling but there is a new world waiting for you. Don't let your thoughts of WW consume you. She started the destruction of the marriage and family by shooting an adultery missile into the jet that was your marriage and family but you and your kids can safely eject and parachute to safety. They just need a decisive commander that doesn't tolerate treason. In the long run they will be better for it.

Concentrate on being the best father possible and work on improving yourself. Implement the 180 to detach and hit the gym hard, it ups your testosterone. Working at home, you've probably let your style slip so you need to improve your look; ie: clothes, hair, hygiene, ETC. These actions are for your self esteem not to win her or to go dating. That will come later.

Also stop referring to POS as your "mate." He's a POS and you should do anything you can to blow up his world. But get your D papers filed first so you can blow WW world at same time. Expose to EVERYONE. Once it's out in the opened she will try to turn everyone against you. Got to get the jump on her.


----------



## Craterus

righto - bit to catch up on here. Thanks for all the advice everyone. I'm in Australia so the time difference meant was in bed while most of this thread was being responded to.

So couple of points. Here in Australia you can't file for divorce until you have been separated (financially/living/ etc etc) for 12 months. So the file for divorce option and lay that on the table doesnt really work here. Also, it makes no difference to financial and custody matters if someone cheats on the other. Apart from maybe making the other person feel uncomfortable it doesnt help you in court or anything like that.

Back to the options facing me - to through another issue in the mix, my wife doesnt have family here to expose her too. She moved here from UK and has little to no connection with her family. She has always been a woman that struggled to make connections and thus all the friends she has here are "our" friends. She has always got her confidence and friendships through me, clearly we have lost our connection over the last few years because she's now got that connection with another man. I am not excusing her actions, but I am trying to understand them.

The other point is - I don't believe they've actually taken it to the sex level, everything I have seen indicates that I actually found all this out a day or so after a kiss (seemed to be the first - but maybe not - the text message said "i will never forget that kiss") - anyway, he and she have both been lying for months and still lying about what actually happened (they both claim and swear that there were never any meet ups - but there was and it was semi-regular on her dog walk and his way to work). I am not sure it makes a whole lot of difference if they actually had sex or not, but it does appear that I caught them out before it went that far. Maybe the EA is still going - and I can tell if and when they talk to each other but there have definitely been no meet ups since it all blew up.

What I am struggling with though, if I expose her and him - I am effectively cutting off any of her support network here. It is not a regular situation where she has her own family and friends to help her through anything, she would only have herself and (maybe OM).. but he'd be dealing with so much stuff of his own he wouldnt be able to help her much if at all. Exposing the whole mess (I think) ruins any chance at an amicable split and certainly any reconciliation (if that's what I want).

Perhaps it is weakness and fear of the future that stops me doing anything - but it feels like it is taking more strength to hold it in and try and sort out what I actually want than it would to just blow it up. To complicate matters further - the OM partner (they arent married) and him are in a completely dysfunctional relationship and havent been together really for years. She probably has had affairs on him in the past - he isnt sure if one of his kids is even his - but she is not someone who's been driven crazy by him. She would be happy to know about this just so she could use it to batter him and kick him out of the house. But it wouldnt be destroying a relationship because that happened years ago - but it would definitely make his family (mum and dad etc) sick that he's done it and I am pretty sure that's what he fears most. 

Where do I find BFF's thread? Seems like a good story.. 

Also - to may posts to re-quote them all but people are talking about reading the 180? is this actually a book or something? I'm doing that - even in just the 24 hours since I read this forum she has asked what has changed. guess I was still very much in the frame of mind that if I could do enough and help her enough we'd get through this together. I suspect that that is a dreamland but I am still going to give it a few weeks to see how she acts before deciding it is all a done deal.

In the meantime - I'll go see a lawyer, and I'll start the process of getting business and financial affairs in order for a split.


----------



## Craterus

jsmart said:


> Concentrate on being the best father possible and work on improving yourself. Implement the 180 to detach and hit the gym hard, it ups your testosterone. Working at home, you've probably let your style slip so you need to improve your look; ie: clothes, hair, hygiene, ETC. These actions are for your self esteem not to win her or to go dating. That will come later.
> 
> .


Agree with all this 100% - Weight not an issue for me but getting back to gym for boxing has been a good release. Definitely let my style slip when I work from home though - have already found a little serviced office out of the house and just getting out of the place helps.. 



jsmart said:


> Also stop referring to POS as your "mate." He's a POS and you should do anything you can to blow up his world. But get your D papers filed first so you can blow WW world at same time. Expose to EVERYONE. Once it's out in the opened she will try to turn everyone against you. Got to get the jump on her. .


this whole concept of blowing the whole thing up doesnt feel right at the minute - it just feels like i would be doing it out of spite and acrimony. Like I said maybe that is fear rather than anything else - I wish I had known about the physical side of things from the start so it could have all been on the table from the beginning but now that I know NOW it feels like if I bring it up now I'm just doing it to screw her over. Don't want to do that - not at the moment anyway.



> Reading hundreds of threads on here and similar sites has taught me that once a woman goes rogue, she is not worth the effort. It will be much easier to win a new woman's heart than to turn your WW heart back to you..


 This I am beginning to agree with - that is a hard thing for me to accept but starting to realise that it is going to be almost impossible to turn this around now her heart has gone elsewhere.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Sorry to have you here, but here's my tuppence worth of advice:




First, follow the get your ducks in a row advice to the tee! Protect yourself financially and in terms of custody. This may become a war, and if it does, she is clearly the enemy and you should not worry about her support network - she took the disrespectful, lying, cheating way out with no care for you or the kids at all!


Get yourself tested for STDs and to add effect to your actions, have the kids DNA tested just to show her how little you think of her now.


Next, inform the OMW as soon as possible! Besides it being the right thing to do, she may have a lot of info on the POSOM that may shed light on what has really been going on and for how long.


Destroy the POSOM [email protected]@rd completely emotionally & financially if you can. This is a double betrayal since he was supposed to be your friend and someone that you helped financially and in general. This makes it even more disrespectful and vile.


Get your in-house separation officially started on route to the D ASAP.


Do not even think of talking with your WW on any matter other than D or custody until she tells you the whole truth (no trickle truthing and is prepared to provide proof and attend a poly), is completely transparent, accepts all the blame for cheating without blame shifting, and is truly remorseful in actions unprompted.


Do the 180 to help you heal yourself (and get counselling) and take care of yourself physically - exercise, healthy eating, personal grooming, change of clothes etc.


Take care, mate.


----------



## MattMatt

Craterus said:


> righto - bit to catch up on here. Thanks for all the advice everyone. I'm in Australia so the time difference meant was in bed while most of this thread was being responded to.
> 
> So couple of points. Here in Australia you can't file for divorce until you have been separated (financially/living/ etc etc) for 12 months. So the file for divorce option and lay that on the table doesnt really work here. Also, it makes no difference to financial and custody matters if someone cheats on the other. Apart from maybe making the other person feel uncomfortable it doesnt help you in court or anything like that.
> 
> Back to the options facing me - to through another issue in the mix, my wife doesnt have family here to expose her too. She moved here from UK and has little to no connection with her family. She has always been a woman that struggled to make connections and thus all the friends she has here are "our" friends. She has always got her confidence and friendships through me, clearly we have lost our connection over the last few years because she's now got that connection with another man. I am not excusing her actions, but I am trying to understand them.
> 
> The other point is - I don't believe they've actually taken it to the sex level, everything I have seen indicates that I actually found all this out a day or so after a kiss (seemed to be the first - but maybe not - the text message said "i will never forget that kiss") - anyway, he and she have both been lying for months and still lying about what actually happened (they both claim and swear that there were never any meet ups - but there was and it was semi-regular on her dog walk and his way to work). I am not sure it makes a whole lot of difference if they actually had sex or not, but it does appear that I caught them out before it went that far. Maybe the EA is still going - and I can tell if and when they talk to each other but there have definitely been no meet ups since it all blew up.
> 
> What I am struggling with though, if I expose her and him - I am effectively cutting off any of her support network here. It is not a regular situation where she has her own family and friends to help her through anything, she would only have herself and (maybe OM).. but he'd be dealing with so much stuff of his own he wouldnt be able to help her much if at all. Exposing the whole mess (I think) ruins any chance at an amicable split and certainly any reconciliation (if that's what I want).
> 
> Perhaps it is weakness and fear of the future that stops me doing anything - but it feels like it is taking more strength to hold it in and try and sort out what I actually want than it would to just blow it up. To complicate matters further - the OM partner (they arent married) and him are in a completely dysfunctional relationship and havent been together really for years. She probably has had affairs on him in the past - he isnt sure if one of his kids is even his - but she is not someone who's been driven crazy by him. She would be happy to know about this just so she could use it to batter him and kick him out of the house. But it wouldnt be destroying a relationship because that happened years ago - but it would definitely make his family (mum and dad etc) sick that he's done it and I am pretty sure that's what he fears most.
> 
> Where do I find BFF's thread? Seems like a good story..
> 
> Also - to may posts to re-quote them all but people are talking about reading the 180? is this actually a book or something? I'm doing that - even in just the 24 hours since I read this forum she has asked what has changed. guess I was still very much in the frame of mind that if I could do enough and help her enough we'd get through this together. I suspect that that is a dreamland but I am still going to give it a few weeks to see how she acts before deciding it is all a done deal.
> 
> In the meantime - I'll go see a lawyer, and I'll start the process of getting business and financial affairs in order for a split.


You feel sorry for her. That's why you do not want to be "cruel" to her.

Maybe you should pay her airfare back to the UK?


----------



## workindad

OP sorry for the spot you are in.

You will not nice her back to you. Sorry.

Your perspective is off- your mate, is anything but. He is your enemy and an enemy to your marriage and family and must be treated as such. Show your wife some strength and out his ass far and wide. Expose her among her friends group. Do so without giving her a heads up. This may seem rough, but is probably your only way of actually having a possibility of seeing remorse from her. She doesn't seem remorseful now. Best case, she wants you to rug sweep this. If you do, it will come back to bite you.

Good luck
WD


----------



## Craterus

Bananapeel said:


> A little advice about the kids. My WW had an affair and the kids from both sides are friends. What we did was sat the kids down and asked them if they had classmates in school that they had a fight/disagreement with and were no longer friends with. After they said "yes", we asked for those kids names. Then we told them that adults have fights to and sometimes stop being friends and we are no longer friends with the other couple. We explained that the kids could still be friends and play at school but that we are no longer going to each other's homes or doing any group activities together. When they asked why, we just told them that it was an adult problem and had nothing to do with them. That explanation worked really well for my kids and there hasn't been any problems. As long as you remember the kid's ages you can explain things at their level of understanding.
> 
> As far as doing the 180. I take a slightly different approach. If you know who you are, what you stand for, and what you are willing to tolerate, you don't need to completely detach. You just need to do what is right for you and make your own decisions, regardless of how your spouse has behaved. With kids involved it is always a delicate situation and you both need to be able to set aside your differences and be mature/respectful/supportive for the good of the kids. I get along with my STBXW most of the time and accept her for who she has become, and also know it is not the type of person I am willing to have as my spouse. However, with that information I am still able to be her friend and support her, because I need an emotionally stable woman to be watching my kids, when I don't have them.
> 
> I agree with everyone else that you absolutely need to talk to the OM's wife. It is 100% the right thing to do. Remember that if you can't make good choices in a time of crisis, it says a lot about your character. Don't let your WW or her affair define you. You get to do that for yourself, so man up and do the right thing.


Great advice about the kids - thanks. 

I'm not 100% convinced that blowing it up right now is the way to go. I just am not sure what I gain from it, other than what would feel like some satisfaction at messing up his life. I want to do that - but I want to do it when the dish is served cold - or maybe I just want to wait to see if there is any chance of reconciliation. Starting to think that is what I want myself though so going to think on that for a few days.


----------



## Craterus

workindad said:


> OP sorry for the spot you are in.
> 
> You will not nice her back to you. Sorry.
> 
> Your perspective is off- your mate, is anything but. He is your enemy and an enemy to your marriage and family and must be treated as such. Show your wife some strength and out his ass far and wide. Expose her among her friends group. Do so without giving her a heads up. This may seem rough, but is probably your only way of actually having a possibility of seeing remorse from her. She doesn't seem remorseful now. Best case, she wants you to rug sweep this. If you do, it will come back to bite you.
> 
> Good luck
> WD


Cheers - for the luck!

I am hearing a lot of "show some strength and expose them" - That doesn't seem like the strong thing to do. It feels like it would be the easy thing to do, holding it back is what I have had to hold in for a month or so now and it sure hasnt been easy. 

Maybe my perspective is messed up but what does deliberately setting out to destroy her get me? A mother to my kids who's messed up and alone? forgetting him for the moment - I agree, he's no mate and I'll see him sorted out one way or another one day. But if I come at him about this now - I catch her in the cross fire. I don't see her as the enemy - not yet anyway. I hope I never do - but maybe I'll be talking about this in a different way in a few weeks.


----------



## MattMatt

Whatever you decide to do, we will be here for you, divorce or reconciliation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## workindad

From my perspective, outing her is not about destroying her. It is about destroying an affair, the special secret and fond memories of an affair and destroying lingering fog, along with holding a cheater accountable for his/her actions. 

If you are simply planning to divorce her, then outing her may serve no real purpose. 

Best of luck in whatever you decide. 

WD


----------



## Craterus

workindad said:


> From my perspective, outing her is not about destroying her. It is about destroying an affair, the special secret and fond memories of an affair and destroying lingering fog, along with holding a cheater accountable for his/her actions.
> 
> If you are simply planning to divorce her, then outing her may serve no real purpose.
> 
> Best of luck in whatever you decide.
> 
> WD


hmmm - I guess I havent really decided what I want. A lot will depend on her actions over the next few weeks. One thing for certain is I am finished with being the one trying to reconcile - if she decides she wants too then I'll have decisions to make.

There is a big temptation to destroy the affair for sure - but my instinct tells me it has been destroyed already, but that may be wishful thinking. 

Whichever way I look at it though - if I out the whole thing, she does get caught in the crossfire and that isn't in me to do to her - yet..


----------



## Craterus

MattMatt said:


> Whatever you decide to do, we will be here for you, divorce or reconciliation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


thanks - I would have done things differently had I found this place earlier. No point looking back though..


----------



## ConanHub

Holding someone accountable for their bad behavior is not setting out to destroy them.

To the contrary, their bad behavior is destroying them and those around them.

Stopping them cold is love on a high order.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3putt

ConanHub said:


> Holding someone accountable for their bad behavior is not setting out to destroy them.
> 
> To the contrary, their bad behavior is destroying them and those around them.
> 
> Stopping them cold is love on a high order.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Couldn't agree more.


----------



## jsmart

Craterus said:


> Cheers - for the luck!
> 
> I am hearing a lot of "show some strength and expose them" - That doesn't seem like the strong thing to do. It feels like it would be the easy thing to do, holding it back is what I have had to hold in for a month or so now and it sure hasnt been easy.
> 
> Maybe my perspective is messed up but what does deliberately setting out to destroy her get me? A mother to my kids who's messed up and alone? forgetting him for the moment - I agree, he's no mate and I'll see him sorted out one way or another one day. But if I come at him about this now - I catch her in the cross fire. I don't see her as the enemy - not yet anyway. I hope I never do - but maybe I'll be talking about this in a different way in a few weeks.


If you want a chance at saving this with a remorseful wife, you have to get her out of the fog and expose POS as weaker than you. Woman only respond to a man they respect and they only respect strength. They don't want nice. They see nice as weak and manipulative. 

Right now POS looks brave because he's willing to risk a friendship and possible violence from an angry husband for her. You look weak because you don't want to confront POS and you tip toe around her. Sometimes we're to sophisticated for our own good. You want to take high road but her inner hind mind sees weakness. You have to be willing to lose the marriage but also show that you're willing to fight for your family. 

Exposing to her friends brings shame, which can help dissipate some of the fog. Blowing up POS shows that he's weak and not the catch she thinks he is and it also shows that her man can fight back and is not afraid to fight for the family. The 180 is for you to protect your heart and not come across as needy.


----------



## Dyokemm

"There is a big temptation to destroy the affair for sure - but my instinct tells me it has been destroyed already, but that may be wishful thinking."

Craterus,

There are countless threads here on TAM and other infidelity sites where BS's hesitate to expose and destroy the A once and for all, thinking it is already over, or its cruel, or they can use the threat of exposure for leverage.....only to find that the cheaters decided to continue the A.

Not exposing the A gives the cheaters an opportunity to connive to take the A underground and harder to catch....and also gives the WS time to start a blameshifting campaign against the BS to friends and family.....BS is controlling, jealous, manipulative, abusive, etc, etc.

Do not make this mistake.....put a stake through the heart of this A once and for all.


----------



## bfree

How does allowing her to continue to stay in the fog help her be a good mother? When she had an affair she sacrificed the children on the alter of lust. She blew up the family. Does that sound like the behavior of a good mother? By not exposing you are keeping her in the fog. How does perpetuating the affair mindset help? Whether you reconcile or divorce and become coparents she needs to be of clear mind. In my opinion you are just making up excuses to justify your inaction. That's not strong and that certainly is not attractive.


----------



## the guy

ConanHub said:


> Holding someone accountable for their bad behavior is not setting out to destroy them.
> 
> To the contrary, their bad behavior is destroying them and those around them.
> 
> Stopping them cold is love on a high order.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is worth repeating.

The way i see it bad behavior has consequences.

Or

Sweep it under the rug and get hurt again and a again.


Some of you know my stories and yes you can go on for years (13 in my case) until one day you have had enough.

You are going about this all wrong...it will catch up to you in the future.

My advise.....make this affair as inconvenient and as uncomfortable as possible.

Or 

Share your wife....your call!


----------



## the guy

ConanHub said:


> Stopping them cold is love on a high order.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Commanding respect is love for your self.

Your Old lady won"t like it but she will respect the fact that you are standing up to this bull shyt! (might need MAttMatt to transilate:grin2


----------



## bandit.45

Damn you Brits are polite. Even when you are having your balls pulled out.


----------



## the guy

Old Lady= wife
bull shyt= infidelity



One more thing...you can't "nice" your way out of this.

I have been here way to long.

If you ever recorded the conversations your wife has with her lover you will hear how phucked up she really is..

phucked up = disrespectful


----------



## Craterus

I am definitely getting the impression that the unanimous opinion from anyone with experience in these matters is that I should stop trying to be "nice". Doesnt feel like that is what I am trying to be - I am trying to do the best thing by kids and myself and blowing the whole thing up wouldn't appear to be the best thing by anyone EXCEPT me. 

When/How do I do it then - after I've been to a lawyer certainly, when I have 180'd enough to keep emotions out of it perhaps as well? Do i confront her face to face, we'd have kids in the house though asleep if I did that... 
Do I confront him first? Go to OMW first? 
or do I take the kids for a couple of days and leave her with a letter and instructions on what is going to happen from my POV and give her time and space to sort out what she wants to do. (that seems like dodging the confrontation - i am not afraid of the confrontation)


----------



## Craterus

the guy said:


> One more thing...you can't "nice" your way out of this.
> 
> I have been here way to long.
> 
> Il


you're talking in the current tense, are you still "there"?


----------



## the guy

Craterus said:


> you're talking in the current tense, are you still "there"?


Depends who you talk to.....:smile2:

But yes.

i went through this and you have to raise your attaction level ....women like confident men...that's attractive!

Stop begging and crying in front of your wife.

You need to make her think twice....second guess her choices by smiling and letting her go!

get it in your head....that you too can find someone else. only then will you bring up your own attraction level.

See....your old lady thinks she can do better...but me and you both know this new POS is only using her to get sex cuz she is an easy target.

Just let her go!

It just might save the rtelationship!


----------



## Craterus

Yeah I get this totally - has been no crying in front of her. But certainly some " I want us to work out, we shouldn't split up" maybe not begging but definitely close to it and that stopped as of yesterday. Also going to stop the gestures and attempts at wooing her back that I have been doing. that isnt going to work I see that now.

Always been a confident guy - but this has knocked me around, has since the start of my suspicions.. got to get that back.

Let her go - thats exactly it.

Has it saved your relationship?


----------



## honcho

If your spouse gets wind your gonna tell the OMW she will warn him. He will start damage control, saying your jealous/nuts whatever to minimize any potential damage.

If it were me it would be OMW first, then your spouse. One right after the other. This gives your spouse and Mr wonderful little time to get cover stories straight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## farsidejunky

So what you are saying is that despite the fact that you earlier acknowledged you wish you would have been here sooner to follow the advice, now that you are here you are not going to follow the advice?

Exposure kills affairs. Are you willing to bet it is over? If anything I would bet the contrary...


----------



## Craterus

farsidejunky said:


> So what you are saying is that despite the fact that you earlier acknowledged you wish you would have been here sooner to follow the advice, now that you are here you are not going to follow the advice?
> 
> Exposure kills affairs. Are you willing to bet it is over? If anything I would bet the contrary...


Haha - yeah it does kind of look like that now I read back. No, I'm listening to the advice... Just working out steps forward. 

I am not willing to bet it is over - not the EA anyway...


----------



## aine

Step 1 - Expose the A to the OMW and your family, her family, friends, etc. Do not let it hide in the dark, that is how it continues and progresses. You might be amazed to see what happens when some light is shined in on it

Step 2 - keep doing the 180, it is clear you act as if your wife has made the decision to leave u and you are going to go on with your life. Be nice, cordial, routine stuff, no emotional discussions, pleas, etc. read up on the 180, link on the site. This way you will be ready to leave (if you have to) or a better man (if it works out).

Step 3 - throw yourself into your kids, work, extracurricular activities, sports, etc, show her you can live life (and well) without her

Step 4 - Try to keep positive, you will have bumpy days but you can do this


----------



## Craterus

aine said:


> Step 1 - Expose the A to the OMW and your family, her family, friends, etc. Do not let it hide in the dark, that is how it continues and progresses. You might be amazed to see what happens when some light is shined in on it
> 
> Step 2 - keep doing the 180, it is clear you act as if your wife has made the decision to leave u and you are going to go on with your life. Be nice, cordial, routine stuff, no emotional discussions, pleas, etc. read up on the 180, link on the site. This way you will be ready to leave (if you have to) or a better man (if it works out).
> 
> Step 3 - throw yourself into your kids, work, extracurricular activities, sports, etc, show her you can live life (and well) without her
> 
> Step 4 - Try to keep positive, you will have bumpy days but you can do this


thanks - where do I find the 180 link? Can't find it..


----------



## Sports Fan

Until you man up and do a 180 on your wife and so called friend nothing will ever be saved.

You need to visit a lawyer find out your rights and file. Seperate any joint accounts to your personal account.

Fight for everything you can and show her no mercy. Best to communicate threw your lawyers. 

At present your wife is in the fog so to speak. The only way out of it is to shock her into reality.

Until she realises you are not to be messed with again ever, nothing will change.

By manning up there is a chance she will come to you and then you can talk about reconciliation on your terms and your rules.

Expose the affair to the friends wife, cut them both off, and expose to the wifes family.

Sorry you find yourself here


----------



## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT?

Craterus -

First off, very sorry you find yourself here. It sucks. Beyond belief.

Here comes the two by four:

Do you really think all of this drama between your wife and this "mate" is around some friendly texts and conversations and a kiss? If she was in 8th grade, yes. Adults don't maintain secret lives and hide in the shadows for a kiss. Prepare yourself for much worse. It has almost certainly happened. I know you refuse to believe it, because it doesn't align with the person you married and built a life with. But does any of this? So your theory is your wife is risking her marriage and her family around a kiss? Be honest with yourself here. I know how hard and painful it is. But come on man!

The wife you married and built a life with is gone, at least for right now. She is not in her right mind. She is high on the affair drug, and doubly so now that she has two men competing for her. You are making the situation worse by being nice. You are feeding the problem.

You state you want to try and salvage the relationship and your family. I get the family thing especially. My wife and I had been married for 8 years and had two small children when she lost her mind and had an affair (1 and 4 years old). I. Get. It.

But the way you are going at it is all wrong. Right now, she thinks she can manage you and the situation. And so far, she has. The only way to move forward is to "wake her up." To show her that there is now a fork in the road. You are headed down one path with or without her. She needs to decide which path she wants. She thinks she can keep a two-lane highway with you and the family in one (the safe, slow lane) and her exciting affair in the other (the fast/passing lane), and she has been successful so far. It is exclusively up to you to demonstrate with ACTIONS that her marriage and current world order is OVER.

You do this by sacking up. Exposing the affair to the other man's partner, your family and friends and hers. You have ZERO chance of salvaging your marriage and family until you do this. To save it, you must demonstrate your total willingness to burn it to the ground. I know it seems counter intuitive, but trust those of us who have walked this same path ahead of you. The current affair must come to an IMMEDIATE end, exposure is the ONLY way to ensure this. 

She must know that you are done. No need for you to prove to her you know. You know, and that's enough. Expose the affair, then tell her you are done. That you will not tolerate this behavior in your marriage for a minute longer. She will try to explain, to justify and eventually misdirect anger etc. Ignore it. This, AND ONLY THIS, will freak her out and force her out of the fog. If there is anything to save, she will come running and begging. You don't engage, you are not debating any of it, you are telling her the decisions you have made and the actions you are taking. She will spit anger, then try to blame you, then collapse Then, and only then, you will have a decision to make. 

As I mentioned before, I walked this path. We are almost four years into a successful reconciliation, our family and our marriage still being rebuilt on a daily basis. And make no mistake, reconciling is no cake walk. I assure you my story would be different if I tried to nice my way out, avoid the confrontations and waited for her to come to her senses. I would be divorced (manageable) and seeing my kids on the weekends (not acceptable). 

I know it seems counter to your current thinking, but he who is willing to walk away from the relationship holds all the power. Your wife thinks that is her (because of her willingness to have an affair), but only because she has been driving that two lane highway I mentioned before. Time for you to take the next exit my friend. See if she follows.

Good luck!


----------



## Craterus

Thanks, I appreciate the advice... So after considering it all here is my plan. 

1. Lawyer on Monday 
2. Go back into the old phone and retrieve all deleted messages and whatsapp back ups. (Ive only went far back enough so far as to confirm there was physical meet ups - I'll delve right in to see how bad it really is) 
3. 180 continues in meantime 
4. Next weekend - brothers engagement party. Whole "family" thing that involves flights and travel.. So won't ruin that for him, will use the time between now and after that to get financial ducks in a row. 
5. After party.. Expose the whole thing. Take kids away for a few days. Will work on how I do this in the meantime... Face to face? Letter?


----------



## cgiles

Hey the 180 lists : The 180 | AFFAIRCARE

If you missed this, read it : http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

This can be usefull too : http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html

If you don't feel enough strong, here is a tool for that : https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

People here forget sometimes than not everyone has all the tools and strengh for face the storm.

An interesting reading about children and divorce : Is Divorce Bad for Children? - Scientific American

The key word is don't blame/bad mouth the other one in front of the kids.

Why you don't plan something with your kids this weekend ? Like some platypus' hunt, or kangooroo's ride ?  

Become MadCrat and everything will be fine.


----------



## Craterus

Thanks for the list of links cgiles... That 180 one particularly useful right now. Will check out the rest.


----------



## Craterus

Oh... And you can only do platypus rides in summer down here. 

And who or what is a madcrat?


----------



## BookOfJob

the guy said:


> ....
> Just let her go!
> 
> It just might save the rtelationship!


Letting go, doing 180, will be 1000% easier if you have all the nude photos and the sexting messages between them. I guarantee you!

It is a common theme that when you turn away from her, and she is forced to get close to the POSOM, she will find the unicorns and rainbows are just exactly that. She will try to get back to you. But then, with the evidence in your hand, you will have to decide what kind of future do you want to choose to live in.



Craterus said:


> ...And who or what is a madcrat?


Madmax (from the movie) in your shoes


----------



## Chaparral

I knew from your first post you were going to ignore the advise you were going to get here. I didn't see the turn around coming though. So I'm still not convinced you can do this. The fact is, you are still in denial how bad this is and how deeply this goes. Their affair has been going on a long time. Your basic strategy has been to do nothing and let it blow in itself out. What's getting blown is the ex best friend.

Not only is everything you have been doing wrong, it is making everything worse by showing your wife what a weak man she married. She sees her new boyfriend as her knight in shining armour. She sees and wants to see everything you say, do, and don't do, as further proof you are not acceptable as a spouse/lover.

Every time she lied to you and you accepted it made you her fool. The contempt for you now is at astronomical levels. Every time he plants his seed in her, the chemical/hormonal bonds grow.

I will bet you, not one experienced poster here believes they are not going at each other as often as possible.

Hopefully, you will start following the advice you wish you had earlier. Otherwise just start looking for a new place for one of you to live.


----------



## Harken Banks

Good luck, bud. Your story starts the same as many others here. You seem to accept that you cannot "nice" her back into the marriage. That is absolutely the truth. She'll eat you up with a spoon. The 180? I don't know. The 180 should not be play acting. Leave the play acting to your wife. Hard as it is, accept that your wife is in a place where you cannot reach her and your attempts to do so will turn her away further and faster. Let her go. Take care of yourself and your kids. Look forward to each day. See what happens.

Edit: On the practical side, see the lawyer. Understanding how things will play out if you go through separation and divorce will bring you peace of mind.


----------



## happyman64

craterus

Your steps are fine and you should definitely wait until after the family event.

But when you show your wife the old texts and whatsapp messages be calm, cool and confident.

Let her know you are not stupid nor will you continue to be disrespected.

That you are making plans to better your future and the kids future.

Then walk away.

Call the OM and let him know what you know. Tell him he is dead to you.

Then prepare to move ahead without either of them in your life.

Your wife is not your friend at this time.

She has no family there? Tough sh!t.

She lied to you and deceived you.

Show her and the OM some consequences. You will regret not doing so.


Who knows, your wife might wakeup and actually start to see the man she used to be married to.

HM


----------



## convert

Craterus, If you want to try and save the marriage and R, the affair has to stop before R can begin.

One of the ways to help stop the affair is to expose, How much exposure depends on your situation.

now if you are going to D then exposure is not really needed, but in some cases it could still be used to gain support and keep you from looking like a bad guy.

It should not be seen as being vindictive and revengeful, especially since it is the truth.

It is the only thing I did right before I came here. I actually did it out of fear. It work. it killed the affair and gave me much needed support.

One of the things I did wrong was trying to nice her back probably for a couple of weeks after Dday. My WW even said she was tied of my whining and begging and when she said that, it instantly stopped and it made the difference.


----------



## MattMatt

In ignorance I sort of niced my wife out of her affair.

Would I recommend this to everyone? No.

Why? It left me with wounds that I did not acknowledge that led me into a drunken and stupid revenge affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Craterus

Ahhh... Madcrat.. I get it now. All of us Aussies have a bit of him inside us, it was compulsory viewing in kindergarten. 

Thanks all... Will check out in more detail tomorrow, poker night was tonight and I'll be doing a lot more of that stuff in the future for sure 

I'm going to take my time and make sure I do it when I'm in the right frame of mind and have all the information to hand.. But I will take the advice given and expose both of them. I'll do it in the calmest way possible to my ww... But the most uncomfortable way possible to OM. I can see that I have done it all wrong so far, so another tactic required. And I don't mean a tactic to focus on an R.. I am less and less inclined for that ever hour. We'll see if those feelings last.. But I'm going to focus on them now.


----------



## badmemory

Craterus said:


> And I don't mean a tactic to focus on an R.. I am less and less inclined for that ever hour. We'll see if those feelings last.. But I'm going to focus on them now.


A couple of thoughts Craterus. 

I would suggest that you put R in the category of a future consideration, rather than a current decision point. Your trajectory should be towards D. If your wife does the right things, then you might want to bring that "consideration" into play. But not right now. She's not even close to warranting it.

In regards to you believing it's not a PA; that is naive. They are not in grammar school, and cheating men don't fool around with EA's for very long. If they've been communicating for weeks or months and had the opportunity to meet up, you'd be well advised to assume they had sex. Don't let that text about the kiss and your hope that it is an EA, blind you to the probabilities.


----------



## toonaive

badmemory said:


> A couple of thoughts Craterus.
> 
> I would suggest that you put R in the category of a future consideration, rather than a current decision point. Your trajectory should be towards D. If your wife does the right things, then you might want to bring that "consideration" into play. But not right now. She's not even close to warranting it.
> 
> In regards to you believing it's not a PA; that is naive. They are not in grammar school, and cheating men don't fool around with EA's for very long. If they've been communicating for weeks or months and had the opportunity to meet up, you'd be well advised to assume they had sex. Don't let that text about the kiss and your hope that it is an EA, blind you to the probabilities.


I would definitely advise this! I know it sounds very counter intuitive, but you really do have to risk loosing the marriage to have even a small chance at saving it. 

Also when it comes to in-laws, be extremely careful on what information you give them. They may not agree with her affair, but they will never want to see her hurt. In the end, blood is always thicker than water.


----------



## Marduk

How you expose to people depends on your relationship with them.

If it were my in-laws I'd do it face to face, with a sealed envelope that was a copy of some of the evidence that they could open if they want.

That way they would know that I wasn't lying.

My bet is that they would destroy it without opening it, but that's not the point.


----------



## turnera

Craterus said:


> Are there any happy endings ever to these kind of things?


Almost never when it's the woman cheating. Most women cheat for EMOTIONAL reasons, while most men cheat for sex. So she has already given her heart to him. So if you try to break them up, the main thing she'll feel is distraught over losing the man she's in love with.

I could be wrong. She could just be the kind of woman who wants excitement and he means nothing to her.

The only way you will know is by informing her that you now know she's cheating, you won't share your wife, and you WILL be divorcing. UNLESS. Unless she makes it her mission in life to make all this up to you - starting with cutting off all contact with him (and his wife) for the rest of your lives.


----------



## cgiles

Craterus said:


> Oh... And you can only do platypus rides in summer down here.
> 
> And who or what is a madcrat?


Mad Max was from australia


----------



## turnera

Craterus said:


> Cheers - for the luck!
> 
> I am hearing a lot of "show some strength and expose them" - That doesn't seem like the strong thing to do. It feels like it would be the easy thing to do, holding it back is what I have had to hold in for a month or so now and it sure hasnt been easy.
> 
> Maybe my perspective is messed up but what does deliberately setting out to destroy her get me?


You're misunderstanding. We are not telling you to shout to the town that she's a wh*re. We are telling you to tell her VIPs - the people whose respect she craves - what she is doing. Nothing more. And of course the OM's W.

When we say exposure, we don't mean expose to HER. You should have already done that. And when she refuses to give him up, THEN you expose to her VIPs.

What that does is force her to make a decision - give up the OM to go back to the marriage, or continue the affair and face her VIPs' disrespect.


----------



## Harken Banks

turnera said:


> You're misunderstanding. We are not telling you to shout to the town that she's a wh*re. We are telling you to tell her VIPs - the people whose respect she craves - what she is doing. Nothing more. And of course the OM's W.
> 
> What that does is force her to make a decision - give up the OM to go back to the marriage, or continue the affair and face her VIPs' disrespect.


Consider your objectives. Exposing for the sake of shaming is unhelpful unless you simply despise and want the worst or even some measure of accountability for her. The 180 is about detaching. Accepting this and leaving it behind. That, I think, is what you need to do. Things can change. Exposure usually is recommended to blast an affair and affair partners out of the fog and come back to reality. Consider your objectives. What do you want? You expressed concern and she turned on you pretty hard. 

Edit: Explaining honestly what is going on to concerned family and friends is another thing and often entirely appropriate.


----------



## 3putt

Here are the hows and the whys of exposure. You don't need to read the entire thread. All you need is on page 1.

Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums


----------



## Craterus

turnera said:


> Almost never when it's the woman cheating. Most women cheat for EMOTIONAL reasons, while most men cheat for sex. So she has already given her heart to him. So if you try to break them up, the main thing she'll feel is distraught over losing the man she's in love with.
> 
> I could be wrong. She could just be the kind of woman who wants excitement and he means nothing to her.
> 
> The only way you will know is by informing her that you now know she's cheating, you won't share your wife, and you WILL be divorcing. UNLESS. Unless she makes it her mission in life to make all this up to you - starting with cutting off all contact with him (and his wife) for the rest of your lives.


No she isnt that kind of woman - this is definitely an emotion thing so I am coming to terms with the fact we are doomed. I am beginning to find some comfort in that.

I have told her that I know it was more than what she has told me it was. I haven't told her how I know. I will keep at the 180, its remarkable how quickly that changes attitudes.

The whole "cut off contact thing" .. I don't see how saying to her you must never speak to OM again (that is impossible anyway, kids in same class at school so they will see each other again) helps anyway. If I have to force her to do or not do something it doesnt feel like a relationship I want to be in.. It isnt one I have been in up to this point in our marriage thats for sure. 




> Consider your objectives. Exposing for the sake of shaming is unhelpful unless you simply despise and want the worst or even some measure of accountability for her. The 180 is about detaching. Accepting this and leaving it behind. That, I think, is what you need to do. Things can change. Exposure usually is recommended to blast an affair and affair partners out of the fog and come back to reality. Consider your objectives. What do you want? You expressed concern and she turned on you pretty hard.


This feels right... If I expose anything right now it will just be to satisfy myself and I'm too emotionally connected to do it correctly. So, two weeks of 180 - brothers engagement party thrown into it - I'll use the two weeks to disconnect from her as best I can, get all the information I can together and then 
expose to OMW and, assuming she hasnt come clean in the meantime, tell her exactly what I know and that we're done.

Seems like it is a statement that almost every guy on here makes - but I sometimes just can't ***ing believe we are in this place!


----------



## Harken Banks

Craterus said:


> Seems like it is a statement that almost every guy on here makes - but I sometimes just can't ***ing believe we are in this place!


Welcome to the club, bro


----------



## cgiles

Craterus said:


> No she isnt that kind of woman - this is definitely an emotion thing so I am coming to terms with the fact we are doomed. I am beginning to find some comfort in that.
> 
> *You can't really know, few weeks ago you believed she was not the cheating kind*
> 
> I have told her that I know it was more than what she has told me it was. I haven't told her how I know. I will keep at the 180, its remarkable how quickly that changes attitudes.
> 
> *Do a physical copy of your proofs and place them outside of your home, somewhere she can't reach them.
> Once a cheating spouse deleted the copy of mails on its betrayed spouse's mail account.
> *
> 
> The whole "cut off contact thing" .. I don't see how saying to her you must never speak to OM again (that is impossible anyway, kids in same class at school so they will see each other again) helps anyway. If I have to force her to do or not do something it doesnt feel like a relationship I want to be in.. It isnt one I have been in up to this point in our marriage thats for sure.
> 
> *If remorse hits her, and she wants seriously to commit to the marriage, and you want to try the reconciliation journey because why not, don't expect her to know what to do, you will maybe need to guide her to find ressource, or give her somethings to do.
> Sincerely the "I don't want to say her what to do" sounds nice guy a lot.
> You can't be both in a driver seat, either she is or you are in this seat*
> 
> 
> This feels right... If I expose anything right now it will just be to satisfy myself and I'm too emotionally connected to do it correctly. So, two weeks of 180 - brothers engagement party thrown into it - I'll use the two weeks to disconnect from her as best I can, get all the information I can together and then
> expose to OMW and, assuming she hasnt come clean in the meantime, tell her exactly what I know and that we're done.
> *Read "no more mr nice guy" during this two weeks it's a great addon to the 180. It's more like applying the 180 to your whole life, and being in control of your happyness in all the area of your life*
> 
> 
> Seems like it is a statement that almost every guy on here makes - but I sometimes just can't ***ing believe we are in this place!


----------



## Craterus

Righto... So did the expose to WW tonight. There were all the trademarks I've read here, lot of tears (none mine).. Lot of blame shifting about cause of affair but none about the snooping on her phone at least. 

. Thing is that I get most of her points....this didn't happen in a vacuum and she's never done something like this before. She had real feeling for the guy so it wasn't a meaningless fling.

So.. I forgive her the lies and the affair. Truly I do...BUT I don't trust her, I don't trust it was just the kiss and few hook ups she admitted too so I have the old phone ready to Dr fone and have all the other evidence off site. 

She might warn OM.. She said she won't and OM has a daughter he doesn't see much with him for a week so I do believe her. I'm still totally 180, but did try and give her some comfort when she was upset which seems a bit too nice guy of me but anyway. So I'm going to go back and check the old phone and IF she wasn't lying tonight... Then I'm going to consider not exposing the whole thing. (except to OMW-OM )

R is definitely off the table for now... Can't file D down here for 12 months post separation but we'll get that ball rolling in 2 weeks.. 

Thanks for advice on both exposing and the no more Mr nice guy book.. That's been a interesting revelation into my own head.


----------



## GusPolinski

Craterus said:


> The whole "cut off contact thing" .. I don't see how saying to her you must never speak to OM again (that is impossible anyway, kids in same class at school so they will see each other again) helps anyway. If I have to force her to do or not do something it doesnt feel like a relationship I want to be in.. It isnt one I have been in up to this point in our marriage thats for sure.


This is a valid perspective ONLY if you're looking to divorce. If you're looking to reconcile, you can't -- realistically speaking -- be so naive as to think that allowing your WW to spend _any_ amount of time w/ OM or communicate w/ OM in any fashion won't reinforce the attachment that's been building between them throughout their affair.

You'll have to set boundaries and deal-breakers, and no contact needs to be one of them. Additionally, you'll have to be ready to walk if she breaks it. Fortunately, it sounds like you're already there.



Craterus said:


> *She might warn OM.. She said she won't* and OM has a daughter he doesn't see much with him for a week so I do believe her.


She's lying and has likely already warned him.


----------



## Chaparral

You forgive her already? Why? Quit being a pushover. What has she done to warrant forgiveness?

You're still acting unmanly. In comparison to the other man, who takes what he wants, you scream weak and needy. If you cant use your backbone to protect yourself and your family, try pretending to be strong and vigilant.


----------



## Divinely Favored

So she admitted to doing him a few times. That IS the kiss he will never forget. She rocked his world!


----------



## turnera

My prediction is you'll be back together reconciling within 2 weeks. You aren't being mad enough. Yes, mad.


----------



## Dyokemm

"BUT I don't trust her, I don't trust it was just the kiss and few hook ups she admitted too so I have the old phone ready to Dr fone and have all the other evidence off site."

So, is she insisting it was just a kiss, or does she admit the hookups were a PA?


----------



## Harken Banks

Craterus said:


> . Thing is that I get most of her points....this didn't happen in a vacuum and she's never done something like this before. She had real feeling for the guy so it wasn't a meaningless fling.
> 
> So.. I forgive her the lies and the affair. Truly I do...BUT I don't trust her, I don't trust it was just the kiss and few hook ups she admitted too so I have the old phone ready to Dr fone and have all the other evidence off site.


Exposure aside, you can forgive her, but why do you have such low expectations? Such low self-esteem? It's forgivable, understandable because it didn't happen in a vacuum and she had real feelings for this guy? That is nuts. Unless you like the role of cuckold. If you have a pair, stop thinking this way.


----------



## jsmart

Craterus said:


> Righto... So did the expose to WW tonight. There were all the trademarks I've read here, lot of tears (none mine).. Lot of blame shifting about cause of affair but none about the snooping on her phone at least.
> 
> . Thing is that I get most of her points....this didn't happen in a vacuum and she's never done something like this before. *She had real feeling for the guy so it wasn't a meaningless fling.*
> 
> So.. *I forgive her the lies and the affair.* Truly I do...BUT I don't trust her, I don't trust *it was just the kiss and few hook ups *she admitted too so I have the old phone ready to Dr fone and have all the other evidence off site.
> 
> *She might warn OM.. She said she won't a*nd OM has a daughter he doesn't see much with him for a week so I do believe her. I'm still totally 180, but did try and give her some comfort when she was upset which seems a bit too nice guy of me but anyway. So I'm going to go back and check the old phone and IF she wasn't lying tonight... Then I'm going to consider not exposing the whole thing. (except to OMW-OM )
> 
> R is definitely off the table for now... Can't file D down here for 12 months post separation but we'll get that ball rolling in 2 weeks..
> 
> Thanks for advice on both exposing and the no more Mr nice guy book.. That's been a interesting revelation into my own head.


If she admitted she has "real" feelings for POS, that means this is much worse than you think. A few hook ups means they've been banging like rabbits for much longer than you think. 

For you to talk about already forgiving her is ridiculous. Also, you should know she has already called her "man" to warn him. Her loyalty is not to you. She is your wife on paper but her heart and body is his.

The best plan of attack was to confront POS in person. He's not your "mate." He's wrecking your kids' family life. Blow his $hit up. Then hit WW with ultimatum with separation papers ready for delivery if needed.


----------



## italianjob

turnera said:


> *My prediction is you'll be back together reconciling within 2 weeks.* You aren't being mad enough. Yes, mad.


Not exactly, they'll be back together and HE will be reconciling. She'll just let him delude himself.


----------



## MattMatt

It seems that some people do not fully grasp what forgiveness is, or what it can be.

OP may well forgive his wife.

But this does not mean that he will stay married to her.

It runs like this: "Yes, I forgive you. But please GTFO of my life. NOW!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Craterus

MattMatt said:


> It seems that some people do not fully grasp what forgiveness is, or what it can be.
> 
> OP may well forgive his wife.
> 
> But this does not mean that he will stay married to her.
> 
> It runs like this: "Yes, I forgive you. But please GTFO of my life. NOW!"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Precisely - I forgive her, but that does not mean I am going to R.. For one, I'm no puritan, I have never cheated on my wife but have crossed lines of "text" intimacy with other women before, not in a sexual way but probably wouldnt like my wife to have read them so they were no doubt inappropriate. That is NOT excusing her behavior - that is me not being so morally high handed to say that I don't understand why she's done what she is done. Life is not black and white - she's a cheater so she's deserves all my hell fire and brimstone?? That is for those who are just angry with life, and I am not angry with my life - I am furious with this situation - furious with WW and OM... Butit is not a sign of weakness to be able to see both sides of this fence. Not in my mind anyway




> Not exactly, they'll be back together and HE will be reconciling. She'll just let him delude himself.


.. I guess both the beauty and beast of forums is that people providing advice and comment don't really know the other people. I won't be letting myself be deluded about anything. Once you realise that someone can lie to you so well it is basically impossible to trust them again - I am not someone that will bury my head in the sand and believe all is well if it isnt. And I won't stay married to someone who I don't trust - I am not sure that you can ever get that trust back frankly.. So the path to D is pretty well set.




> so, is she insisting it was just a kiss, or does she admit the hookups were a PA?


 ... Yep she is insisting that is the case, I've gone back and checked everything as far back as i can now without doing the doctor fone thing - so about 4 weeks prior to DD. And it does appear that I found it all out a couple of days after a first kiss - its probably hard to explain without posting the whole text conversation but i can see the discussion about where too meet, reads like the first meeting (on wifes early dog walk and his way to work) -- then where they met a few times - and then after maybe the 3rd meeting a "I will never forget that kiss" from him. Now - what another poster has said here is actually as much the issue.. it may not have been a full on PA - but it was a EA for sure and what i did was probably blow up the PA before it happened rather than that it wouldnt have happened. It was clear he was going to be happy to continue to meet up.. So, I suspect that the fact she has feelings for him hasnt gone away. 




> She's lying and has likely already warned him.


 /.. This I suspect might be true -- another topic thats come up a bit is that I should be going straight to OM and OMW... frankly I am enjoying the fact that either a) she's told him and he's s**ting himself about me revealing to OMW -- all while he has his daughter with him that he rarely see's OR b) she hasn't told him but is sh**ting herself about having that conversation with him. 

it isn't like her warning him or him having time to sort out a story or the like helps him. I have the evidence - will take one email to unveil it all if I need too. If OMW has the evidence, no matter when she gets it he knows she will use it as an excuse to both kick him out of a house he loves and, with my help be able to do a number other things that will screw him over financially and emotionally big time (not gonna put them even anonymously online). he knows what those outcomes are as well as i do - so him sweating on the fact that I might do it does feel good. I know a lot of people think I should just do it and mess him up - but there are 3 little kids (theirs) involved and no matter what has been done to me I will only do something that ultimately hurts them too if I get a whiff that he is still trying anything with my WW. 

So - in the meantime - the 180 continues, though I suspect when i did the expose to her and she was so upset i didnt stick with it very well that night. nevertheless - it is working, not for her, but for me, its been the best piece of advice I have had on here. so will continue with that for another week and then, even if WW has warned OM then I will be confronting him. None of this via email and text message nonesense either. In person - face to face.. My WW doesnt know I have all the evidence, she thinks I have just seen it and its in my memory. I look forward to the look in his eye and on his face when he realises what I have over him.


----------



## aine

Craterus said:


> Precisely - I forgive her, but that does not mean I am going to R.. For one, I'm no puritan, I have never cheated on my wife but have crossed lines of "text" intimacy with other women before, not in a sexual way but probably wouldnt like my wife to have read them so they were no doubt inappropriate. That is NOT excusing her behavior - that is me not being so morally high handed to say that I don't understand why she's done what she is done. Life is not black and white - she's a cheater so she's deserves all my hell fire and brimstone?? That is for those who are just angry with life, and I am not angry with my life - I am furious with this situation - furious with WW and OM... Butit is not a sign of weakness to be able to see both sides of this fence. Not in my mind anyway
> 
> 
> .. I guess both the beauty and beast of forums is that people providing advice and comment don't really know the other people. I won't be letting myself be deluded about anything. Once you realise that someone can lie to you so well it is basically impossible to trust them again - I am not someone that will bury my head in the sand and believe all is well if it isnt. And I won't stay married to someone who I don't trust - I am not sure that you can ever get that trust back frankly.. So the path to D is pretty well set.
> 
> 
> ... Yep she is insisting that is the case, I've gone back and checked everything as far back as i can now without doing the doctor fone thing - so about 4 weeks prior to DD. And it does appear that I found it all out a couple of days after a first kiss - its probably hard to explain without posting the whole text conversation but i can see the discussion about where too meet, reads like the first meeting (on wifes early dog walk and his way to work) -- then where they met a few times - and then after maybe the 3rd meeting a "I will never forget that kiss" from him. Now - what another poster has said here is actually as much the issue.. it may not have been a full on PA - but it was a EA for sure and what i did was probably blow up the PA before it happened rather than that it wouldnt have happened. It was clear he was going to be happy to continue to meet up.. So, I suspect that the fact she has feelings for him hasnt gone away.
> 
> 
> /.. This I suspect might be true -- another topic thats come up a bit is that I should be going straight to OM and OMW... frankly I am enjoying the fact that either a) she's told him and he's s**ting himself about me revealing to OMW -- all while he has his daughter with him that he rarely see's OR b) she hasn't told him but is sh**ting herself about having that conversation with him.
> 
> it isn't like her warning him or him having time to sort out a story or the like helps him. I have the evidence - will take one email to unveil it all if I need too. If OMW has the evidence, no matter when she gets it he knows she will use it as an excuse to both kick him out of a house he loves and, with my help be able to do a number other things that will screw him over financially and emotionally big time (not gonna put them even anonymously online). he knows what those outcomes are as well as i do - so him sweating on the fact that I might do it does feel good. I know a lot of people think I should just do it and mess him up - but there are 3 little kids (theirs) involved and no matter what has been done to me I will only do something that ultimately hurts them too if I get a whiff that he is still trying anything with my WW.
> 
> So - in the meantime - the 180 continues, though I suspect when i did the expose to her and she was so upset i didnt stick with it very well that night. nevertheless - it is working, not for her, but for me, its been the best piece of advice I have had on here. so will continue with that for another week and then, even if WW has warned OM then I will be confronting him. None of this via email and text message nonesense either. In person - face to face.. My WW doesnt know I have all the evidence, she thinks I have just seen it and its in my memory. I look forward to the look in his eye and on his face when he realises what I have over him.


You have done nothing really to stop the affair though, why are you waiting to not expose to OMW, doesn't she have the right to know what that POSOM is doing to her?


----------



## Craterus

aine said:


> You have done nothing really to stop the affair though, why are you waiting to not expose to OMW, doesn't she have the right to know what that POSOM is doing to her?


I have stopped it - well, to the best of my knowledge it has stopped, it stopped the day after the first half arsed DD where I only found out about the text affair and blew that up. I mean - I recognise that I could be being played - I am not a fool and do not trust WW or OM one bit.. I will never know 100% that they havent met up since then. But like I've said before - OM and OMW are a dysfunctional and separated couple. They have not been a couple for years though they share the same house. OMW is a lady who has cheated on OM before and used to make regular passes (all rebuffed) at me so I have no feeling of loyalty to her. 

OMW WOULD however be very happy to know, OM has never had proof of her infidelity but if I give her proof of his she will go to town with it.. I am sure that's what worries him most.


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## eric1

It's really not your place to decide what she knows, though. You are letting your history with them color what is right and wrong.

Her husband is cheating on her. She deserves to know. Period. Any other problems that have existed in the marriage before or after are frankly none of your concern at this point.


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## Craterus

Sure, she deserves to know. But what is right for her doesnt concern me in the slightest frankly. What is right for my kids and me is the only thing I care about.


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## eric1

As well it should be. 

But I'll (gently) disagree with you on how to go about this.

The world is your village. What is right for you and your kids isn't this immediate situation but everyone in it and how it all presents itself to you and you to them. Is doing right by your kids doing what is expedient and hiding everything, or by teaching them that sometimes people need to do what is right, even in the face of difficulty.

One day your kids will no longer have you around. The only thing that you will leave them are memories and the moral character that you have helped shape. 

What is right for her should concern you because that's how we should all approach life. Compassion and love don't even exist inside of the confines of marriage vows as you're now finding out. It's what you make of love and compassion if what defines its existence in your life.


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## GusPolinski

Craterus said:


> ... Yep she is insisting that is the case, *I've gone back and checked everything as far back as i can now without doing the doctor fone thing* - so about 4 weeks prior to DD.


You need to get that done, because for every day that you don't, memory is being overwritten, data is being lost, and any cached backups stored in iCloud (this is, of course, assuming that we're talking about an iPhone) are being retired. Plus she could always delete the backups.


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## GusPolinski

Craterus said:


> Sure, she deserves to know. But what is right for her doesnt concern me in the slightest frankly. What is right for my kids and me is the only thing I care about.


And if OMW had been the one to find the affair...? You'd want her to tell you, right?

It's the right thing to do.

ETA: Having read this...



Craterus said:


> I have stopped it - well, to the best of my knowledge it has stopped, it stopped the day after the first half arsed DD where I only found out about the text affair and blew that up. I mean - I recognise that I could be being played - I am not a fool and do not trust WW or OM one bit.. I will never know 100% that they havent met up since then. But like I've said before - OM and OMW are a dysfunctional and separated couple. They have not been a couple for years though they share the same house. OMW is a lady who has cheated on OM before and used to make regular passes (all rebuffed) at me so I have no feeling of loyalty to her.
> 
> OMW WOULD however be very happy to know, OM has never had proof of her infidelity but if I give her proof of his she will go to town with it.. I am sure that's what worries him most.


...I'm a bit more inclined to say, "LOL. To Hell w/ OMW."

Still, if you feel that exposing the affair to OMW would further squash the affair, definitely do it.


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## Craterus

GusPolinski said:


> You need to get that done, because for every day that you don't, memory is being overwritten, data is being lost, and any cached backups stored in iCloud (this is, of course, assuming that we're talking about an iPhone) are being retired. Plus she could always delete the backups.


all good - its an android that isnt being used anymore. It has a busted screen so she has no idea how to even get into it to to delete backups. You can use a mouse on an android with the right connection so I'm all ok there. 



> And if OMW had been the one to find the affair...? You'd want her to tell you, right?
> 
> It's the right thing to do.





> As well it should be.
> 
> But I'll (gently) disagree with you on how to go about this.
> 
> The world is your village. What is right for you and your kids isn't this immediate situation but everyone in it and how it all presents itself to you and you to them. Is doing right by your kids doing what is expedient and hiding everything, or by teaching them that sometimes people need to do what is right, even in the face of difficulty.
> 
> One day your kids will no longer have you around. The only thing that you will leave them are memories and the moral character that you have helped shape.
> 
> What is right for her should concern you because that's how we should all approach life. Compassion and love don't even exist inside of the confines of marriage vows as you're now finding out. It's what you make of love and compassion if what defines its existence in your life


Two persuasive arguments I grant you both. I'll think on it over the next couple of days... It is not that I will find it hard to expose to OMW, part of me relishes it.. But they have 3 kids, 1 of which is my 5 year olds best friend and its exactly the thought of what my and our kids will learn from or be exposed to in this situation that drives my thinking. It has felt selfish to go all out on the situation - like that do many would be caught in the crossfire of me satisfying my own desire for revenge. But I am beginning to see it another way - it hasnt felt like fear that has stopped me exposing, but maybe I am justifying my fear about what exposure may cause by couching it in terms of "i'm doing it for the kids". Last thing I want is to use them as a shield for my own fears. 

but also - the next last thing I want to do is to mess up kids in such formative ages with uncontrolled anger and spitefulness.


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## GusPolinski

Craterus said:


> all good - its an android that isnt being used anymore. It has a busted screen so she has no idea how to even get into it to to delete backups.


This is an even better reason to get it done ASAP, as a busted screen may be indicative of further (i.e. internal) damage to the device.


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## Craterus

GusPolinski said:


> This is an even better reason to get it done ASAP, as a busted screen may be indicative of further (i.e. internal) damage to the device.


Yeah good point - will retrieve all the old messages tomorrow. Worked fine when I went into it today to get photo's of the non deleted stuff. Will get the whattsapp back ups too.


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## Chaparral

Craterus said:


> Yeah good point - will retrieve all the old messages tomorrow. Worked fine when I went into it today to get photo's of the non deleted stuff. Will get the whattsapp back ups too.


It seems like you would have gone into the phone as soon as possible. Are you avoiding bad news?

Normally, I would advise exposing to the OMW also. In this case though, given her cheating ways, I might use it over his head to keep him in line. However, that may backfire either way and actually give him no reason to not pursue your wife. He has already shown no respect for you or marriage.


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## turnera

Wait. So you are NOT reconciling. You are divorcing. Your kid is best friends with their kid. And you think that if you don't tell the OMW she will let your kids still play together, and if you DO tell her, she won't?

Or are you really saying if you tell the OMW she'll divorce him and then your stbx and her stbx will get together?


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## eric1

Craterus said:


> all good - its an android that isnt being used anymore. It has a busted screen so she has no idea how to even get into it to to delete backups. You can use a mouse on an android with the right connection so I'm all ok there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two persuasive arguments I grant you both. I'll think on it over the next couple of days... It is not that I will find it hard to expose to OMW, part of me relishes it.. But they have 3 kids, 1 of which is my 5 year olds best friend and its exactly the thought of what my and our kids will learn from or be exposed to in this situation that drives my thinking. It has felt selfish to go all out on the situation - like that do many would be caught in the crossfire of me satisfying my own desire for revenge. But I am beginning to see it another way - it hasnt felt like fear that has stopped me exposing, but maybe I am justifying my fear about what exposure may cause by couching it in terms of "i'm doing it for the kids". Last thing I want is to use them as a shield for my own fears.
> 
> 
> 
> but also - the next last thing I want to do is to mess up kids in such formative ages with uncontrolled anger and spitefulness.



What you're doing is not anger and spite. 

Exposing the affair to sunlight is something that the victim of infidelity needs to do to 1. Help stop the affair and 2. It's what is right. It's a consequence of the affair. You didn't ask to be cuckolded. You are doing nothing but playing the cards unfortunately dealt to you. The moral obligation for the kids on this one is on your wife and her boyfriend.

But more importantly, your kids are a lot more resilient than you are giving them credit for. Trust that you have raised them right and they will be fine. My kids have changed schools four times in five years due to the nature of my employment and they are super happy and well-adjusted.


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## Lostinthought61

I have this fear you are in complete denial, and if that is what you want then good luck, but i promise you this will be back and shocked when you discover the truth.


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## Decorum

Hi Craterus, I am sorry for what you are going through.

You have the best of the best helping you on your thread so I have little to add.

Some of us will remember the thread by Devastated Dad, he caught his wife's affair with a mutual friend early, he went out with him, had a beer, soft confront no exposure.

The affair partner cried, asked forgiveness, promised to stop. DD thought it was over. In fact the POS amped it up and they committed some of the most soul crushing acts I have ever read about here on TAM.


The unfulfilled desire of unconsummated "love" is irresistible to a wayward wife, it will always burn in her heart, and likely be the reason the affair will continue. Your situation may be different (that would be a first for my knowledge here) but there may be enough constraints in time, proximity, and relationships that it was hard to take it to the next level logistically or even continue it now IDK. Just keep your eyes open.

Also, people worry to much about if they are motivated by revenge. You look at the principles involved and act based on them while censoring your less noble thoughts and staying focused on doing the right thing.. For example, people learn from their consequences. You are speaking the truth and letting them face the consequences of their actions. Do you know why the consequences for an affair are often so significant? ...Of course because having an an affair is so damaging to every one involved.

We only weaken others when we protect them from the consequences of their actions. This affair likely damaged your family beyond repair (to anything like it was), do not sell that short because of false guilt.

The fact that you may enjoy their suffering may not be noble, but it is human, and you don't sound like someone who will stay there long. But that is no reason to shy away from doing the right thing. Just deal with your gloating when and if it happens, recognize that you are not perfect and move on.

I really do wish you and your family well, take care.


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## Craterus

Thank you decorum - I appreciate the input of everyone. It isn't easy stuff to accept most of the time but this place has been a comfort so far. 

So here's the latest - She had a haircut yesterday, was an hour or so late. She had been messaging me the whole time to let me know she was running late but still I smelt a rat. When she got home I said straight out, no dissembling or passive aggression "nice guy" stuff - that I think you met up with him. She denied it - I said I will only say it once more, I don't believe you and I have no reason to believe you. Left it at that and 180'd the night.

Today - at lunchtime from work she asked me what was still wrong. I said I still don't believe you. Argument ensued " I can't live with you checking up on me etc etc".. Long and the short, she did prove she hadnt met him and I was wrong about it - but frankly I don't want to live with the stress and anxiety of a wife who has made me mistrust even a late haircut.

I told her that it was done - she needs to go see a lawyer. I also told her that after this weekend (my bro's engagment party) she has to tell OM that I know (she may have done this already I know - but my intuition says no) and that I am going to tell OMW. She flew off the handle at that, telling me it was spiteful and nasty and that I know what OMW is like and that I don't like her anyway so all I would be doing is satisfying my own sense of revenge if I did that. Thing is - she is right, OMW is a cheater and I have no respect for her.. i WOULD be exposing to OMW out of spite, well it feels like I would be anyway. I could hear it in my voice when i was saying it.. it wasn't altruistic, it was spiteful. So I'm still not 100% sure what I will do re: exposure. I will potentially give OM a chance to reveal it himself... if he doesnt then I will. I know this isnt the normal way people here say to do the exposure, but it isnt a black and white situation. 

Regardless - a lot of nasty things said by WW in the argument. Some have some truth to them, after reading no more mr nice guy I can see so many Nice guy traits in me that I know I have been no moral bastion. She did not like the suggestion of separation - I don't think she expected it from me but she said she'll go get legal advice herself. I do not want this to get ugly -but path to D is set, we can't file here in Australia until legally seperated for a year but I can't see any R between us. I don't want it (I don't think I do anyway - being around her at times makes me feel like I DO) - but I don't think she really wants it either.


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## Craterus

Xenote said:


> I have this fear you are in complete denial, and if that is what you want then good luck, but i promise you this will be back and shocked when you discover the truth.


No denial - fear perhaps, but that is lessening every day. Still spikes now and then though like yesterday and today... But no denial. Eye's wide open - but I don't want to live a life where I am checking up on my spouse all the time. It feels dirty and demeaning.. We won't get trust back. It's just now to handle the separation the most adult and responsible way possible


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## BobSimmons

Craterus said:


> No denial - fear perhaps, but that is lessening every day. Still spikes now and then though like yesterday and today... But no denial. Eye's wide open - but I don't want to live a life where I am checking up on my spouse all the time. It feels dirty and demeaning.. We won't get trust back. It's just now to handle the separation the most adult and responsible way possible


So a simple hair cut turns into this. That's what the betrayed have t live with, the loss of trust means always second guessing but in your case what you have is an unremorseful wife..that alone is grounds for filing.

Yes you were wrong but that's understandable. What she should be trying to do is make you feel safe, ally those fears, instead you get deflection and blame shifting.

I read somewhere where you questioned performing some actions wouldn't be for the benefit of the family but you. This is between you and her. You can't change or take care of her but you can certainly do so for yourself.

Seeing you've read NMNG and stopped pandering to her and getting caught by her baiting, expose her to her family, yours and OMW. Doesn't matter if she's cheated perhaps this is her comeuppence but all parties deserve to know and thus you nuke the secrecy and burn this to the ground.

You rein in your family if they try anything. This is still the mother of your children but the truth must come out and your wife must hit rock bottom if you're to have any chance of R.


----------



## bfree

BobSimmons said:


> So a simple hair cut turns into this. That's what the betrayed have t live with, the loss of trust means always second guessing but in your case what you have is an unremorseful wife..that alone is grounds for filing.
> 
> Yes you were wrong but that's understandable. What she should be trying to do is make you feel safe, ally those fears, instead you get deflection and blame shifting.
> 
> I read somewhere where you questioned performing some actions wouldn't be for the benefit of the family but you. This is between you and her. You can't change or take care of her but you can certainly do so for yourself.
> 
> Seeing you've read NMNG and stopped pandering to her and getting caught by her baiting, expose her to her family, yours and OMW. Doesn't matter if she's cheated perhaps this is her comeuppence but all parties deserve to know and thus you nuke the secrecy and burn this to the ground.
> 
> You rein in your family if they try anything. This is still the mother of your children but the truth must come out and your wife must hit rock bottom if you're to have any chance of R.


Even if R isn't the goal the truth must come out. You want your children to have a good mother. Right now that isn't your wife. Only by exposing this dark act to the light of day will your wife see how truly damaging this is and take steps to strengthen her moral character. You expose for the benefit of the children, not to damage them. Do some research and you'll see the truth of it.


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## eric1

The reason she doesn't want the affair exposed to her boyfriend's wife isn't because of how his wife is or any type of fairness. This is called gas lighting. She's projecting anger at you because she wants to continue her relationship with him


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## convert

Never tell your wayward spouse that you are exposing to their affair partner or anyone. Never


----------



## Marduk

Don't feel bad about not trusting her about the haircut.

Trust is earned, not expected. This is her new reality -- that she doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt. It's well and good that she face that head on.

My advice? Shut up about making her tell the OM. You're actually condoning her having more contact with him, and forcing a you vs them situation. Don't.

What I would do? Get the legal stuff squared away. It's about protecting the kids and limiting damage.

Then randomly expose to the OMW face to face -- give her copies of all the data and confessions you have. Walk out of there, call the OM and tell him he has 10 minutes to meet you somewhere public but with some privacy.

Look him in the eye and tell him the damage that he has helped bring to your family, and that he now has to face the same.

This isn't revenge. Exposure protects you and your kids. ****roaches like to hide in the dark for a reason.


----------



## Graywolf2

Craterus said:


> Yeah good point - will retrieve all the old messages tomorrow. Worked fine when I went into it today to get photo's of the non deleted stuff. Will get the whattsapp back ups too.


OP, did you do this?


----------



## Decorum

convert said:


> Never tell your wayward spouse that you are exposing to their affair partner or anyone. Never


Craterus,

Most people make a lot of mistakes early on. You are in good company, but you confronted her regarding her haircut without evidence. Honestly that is never recommended, and you did it based on her telling the truth. Not trying to have a go at you but really what did you expect?

In this case apparently she did not meet with him. What was your goal in doing this? To convince yourself that she is still in the affair and that you should proceed with the divorce?

You know that is not the 180 right?



Gather your evidence and sit tight, don't use up all your capitol in a fight that doesn't matter, there will be ones that matter soon enough.

She is unremorseful. She is focusing on the reason she cheated, you are focusing (heavily) on the "fact" that she cheated.

She is excusing her behavior and not trying to help you recover from what her actions have done to you and the relationship.



The two of you are not on the same page.



The time to focus on the problems and unhappiness in a marriage is before the cheating, and if there is remorselessness and a decision to reconcile then of course as you are trying to rebuild.

I do believe there is a place to acknowledge some responsibility for the failure in a marriage if it serves to disarm a wayward spouses' sense of hopelessness or failure in a marriage but always making a clear distinction that there is no excuse for cheating.

Trying to argue with her and convince her is a waste of time. She is balancing her guilt with blame and if she gives up her blame then all she is left with is guilt. She is stuck in a feedback loop of her own making because she is morally weak. (please don't take offense at my use of the word "morally" here, it just means a character flaw as I am using it, no one is perfect.)



Remorsefulness, and getting knocked out of the fog can be encouraged through consequences, but the WS still will make a choice either way.

No consequences tends to keep things in the horrible limbo of a unwavering status quo.

Keep in mind that your engaging and accusing her simply bolster her view that there is something wrong with you and gains you nothing.

Just some things to think over and see if there is any value in them for you.

Take care.


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## BetrayedDad

Craterus said:


> When she got home I said straight out, no dissembling or passive aggression "nice guy" stuff - that I think you met up with him. She denied it - I said I will only say it once more, I don't believe you and I have no reason to believe you. Left it at that and 180'd the night.


All wrong buddy. That was the definition of passive aggressive. First you questioned her whereabouts, then you later ignored "180'd" her. Why bother? She's just going to lie to you anyway.

The 180 is not selective in implementation. It's constant, a lifestyle. You shouldn't of said a damn thing when she came home. Anymore than if a roommate came home late. Her affairs are no longer your concern and you can't control them.

What you need to do is get busy living and work on YOURSELF. Start going out. Hang out with some friends. I don't care if you go grocery shopping, dress to impress and come back whenever the hell you feel like. 

She asks you where your going? "OUT" When are you coming back "When I feel like it." You don't answer to her anymore than she does to you. DETACH. That's what the 180 is for.


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## Tobin

Craterus said:


> I told her that it was done - she needs to go see a lawyer. I also told her that after this weekend (my bro's engagment party) she has to tell OM that I know


This makes no sense. If you're telling her that its done and you're getting divorced, then why would she tell the OM that you know? Why would she listen to anything you tell her to do?

Also telling her it's done go get a lawyer is a very adversarial position to take right off the bat. Why not say "we're done, let's work on a settlement agreement that is fair to both of us and part ways amicably". You'd save a ton of dough.

Also if you're done why say anything to her about getting a lawyer? Just go get your own lawyer and serve her. It sounds like you're saying "get a lawyer" just to be dramatic.


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## turnera

Agreed. That was a passive aggressive Nice Guy move meant to get a reaction out of her.

A stronger way to handle it would have been just to say 'this isn't working out. I'm going to look for a lawyer. I suggest you do the same.' And then just leave.


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## G.J.

Don't forget the phone
Left it gets over written

You need to know if you change your mind and R


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## Craterus

Decorum said:


> Craterus,
> 
> Most people make a lot of mistakes early on. You are in good company, but you confronted her regarding her haircut without evidence. Honestly that is never recommended, and you did it based on her telling the truth. Not trying to have a go at you but really what did you expect?
> 
> In this case apparently she did not meet with him. What was your goal in doing this? To convince yourself that she is still in the affair and that you should proceed with the divorce?
> 
> You know that is not the 180 right?
> 
> 
> 
> Gather your evidence and sit tight, don't use up all your capitol in a fight that doesn't matter, there will be ones that matter soon enough.
> 
> She is unremorseful. She is focusing on the reason she cheated, you are focusing (heavily) on the "fact" that she cheated.
> 
> She is excusing her behavior and not trying to help you recover from what her actions have done to you and the relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> The two of you are not on the same page.
> 
> 
> 
> The time to focus on the problems and unhappiness in a marriage is before the cheating, and if there is remorselessness and a decision to reconcile then of course as you are trying to rebuild.
> 
> I do believe there is a place to acknowledge some responsibility for the failure in a marriage if it serves to disarm a wayward spouses' sense of hopelessness or failure in a marriage but always making a clear distinction that there is no excuse for cheating.
> 
> Trying to argue with her and convince her is a waste of time. She is balancing her guilt with blame and if she gives up her blame then all she is left with is guilt. She is stuck in a feedback loop of her own making because she is morally weak. (please don't take offense at my use of the word "morally" here, it just means a character flaw as I am using it, no one is perfect.)
> 
> 
> 
> Remorsefulness, and getting knocked out of the fog can be encouraged through consequences, but the WS still will make a choice either way.
> 
> No consequences tends to keep things in the horrible limbo of a unwavering status quo.
> 
> Keep in mind that your engaging and accusing her simply bolster her view that there is something wrong with you and gains you nothing.
> 
> Just some things to think over and see if there is any value in them for you.
> 
> Take care.


Thanks Decorum - I like the way you put things and you're right.. Making a lot of mistakes I can see. Not going to beat myself up though - or try not too anyway. It isnt something I ever expected to have to learn how to do.

More soon.


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## Craterus

turnera said:


> Agreed. That was a passive aggressive Nice Guy move meant to get a reaction out of her.
> 
> A stronger way to handle it would have been just to say 'this isn't working out. I'm going to look for a lawyer. I suggest you do the same.' And then just leave.


Hmmm... yep - I see that. Going over the conversation and the post argument discussion it was all nice guy stuff from me...

Oh well.. another day today.


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## cgiles

So you read "NMMNG", good.

But don't forget to do the break free exercices.

You can look there : No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group if there is some support group around you in australia. Or simply a men support group.


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## Craterus

cgiles said:


> So you read "NMMNG", good.
> 
> But don't forget to do the break free exercices.
> 
> You can look there : No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group if there is some support group around you in australia. Or simply a men support group.


yeah its been great - very little in the way of those kind of support groups down here especially where I am but think I've found one that might be helpful. I've done my first read through and will go back through again and start on the break free exercises. 



> Don't forget the phone
> Left it gets over written
> 
> You need to know if you change your mind and R


i haven't forgotten the old phone -- for those asking I tried to do Dr Fone to retrieve the deleted messages yesterday. Some how the Samsung security settings were stopping me both being able to get the old stuff and wasnt even able to root the device.

I have a work around I think and will work on that next week when I have some clear time with it... it isnt being overwritten as it isnt in use. However, I did get the old whattssapp backup.. all things do point to the fact that it was a few meetings prior to DD and that it was nothing more than a kiss.. BUT I am not just accepting that or writing it off anyway, fact is that even if serendipity stepped in and I did find it all out just after the first physical stuff, there was an EA and the PA would have just gone further.

It would not have stopped at that if i hadnt found out - and I am not assuming that it has stopped or more accurately that she doesnt WANT it to stop.


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## eric1

Exactly - she doesn't get extra credit points for being discovered. It was (and could still be) heading in one direction - deeper.

You really need to expose her affair to sunlight - On my way!, parents, etc. It's the number one affair killer and you really do need to start eliminating variables to your recovery (and to do the right thing of course).

Don't tell your wife you're about to out her boyfriend this time though


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## cgiles

Craterus said:


> i haven't forgotten the old phone -- for those asking I tried to do Dr Fone to retrieve the deleted messages yesterday. Some how the Samsung security settings were stopping me both being able to get the old stuff and wasnt even able to root the device.


Check if the phone is in the list.
Tech Specifications of Wondershare Dr.Fone for Android


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## Decorum

Craterus,

Any updates?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Derryn Hunch

check the recent post I just made on the "standard evidence thread" - I'm still sitting here grinning ear to ear with this program - I've been getting my forensic data recovery nerd on for a few hours this morning, which it turned out was something I learnt I have little bit of skill and passion for, outside of being a paranoid husband


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