# Arguing About Intimacy



## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

wife and I are going through a difficult time. Been togeather 16 years and married 11 years. We have 3 kids the youngest is 9. She is a sahm for most of it. Now I'm not going to go back and list every thing that has transpired in that time but just the latest and what seems to be most stressing. We are seeing a counselor today for these differences. Tomorrow she is seeing a different one for one on one. First let me start of by saying last week during sex (which wasn't good) and she had an alcohol buzz so usually people are honest then she told me that she loves me but is not in love with me. She later said what she meant to say was that she is not in love with some of things I do. I've made some mistakes lately due to my frustrations. A month ago or so during an argument I took some of her clothes and threw them outside. I did bring them back in and later apologized. I also have been saying not so nice things which I regret also. Why I'm upset is we argue a lot about intimacy. We've always had a good sex life but lately we are not on the same page. I try talking about it with her and it doesn't make a difference now she just won't talk about it. I'm 39 she is 42. I've asked her for more foreplay , to not ask me to have sex but just show me by her actions. I mean kinda makes it less attractive when she says it. Its like a chore for her. When we do it she takes her hands and like stops me from kissing her all over and at times I feel is blocking me which is weird. She doesn't look at me says she can't focus that close. Kissing is not so much. She sometimes talks about other things than the love making we are suppose to be having. She only wants to do missionary or doggie style. Tells me to finish quicker than I'd like. Won't wear lingerie or rarely will. Says I want sex too much and I've tried to spice things up by may be doing it somewhere other than the bedroom in bed and she doesn't want to. Won't do my favorite position although I've asked several times. What is going on with her ????? I like to cuddle, hold hands , touch and I have to ask her to or I have to do it. She infrequently tells me that she loves me. Never compliments me yet I compliment her all the time. Do you think she has fallen out of love with me ? I know she isn't cheating. I do take her out on date nights . I do give her back massages some times. I'm not lazy I'm in good shape Good job Do the bills, the yard, keep up the cars , some domestic chores when time allows. Don't cook but never have except for grill. I spend time with our kids. I don't feel appreciated. I do want to sexually please her but she doesn't seek out her pleasure. Can this marriage be saved? Cause I'm not happy and she knows it. She puts the blame on me. I've tried may be too hard to fix things. She told her mom and girlfriends that our problems are because all I want is sex that I'm never satisfied so they are made at me. Our best weeks prob. 4 times a week but I think she wants 1 to 2 now. I'm at a loss. Confused. Am I really the problem or is she the one with issues? I can't wait for counseling today so I'm posting this. I know 4 times sounds like a lot but if she is like what I posted above its not good. 

I feel she isn't putting the effort into the marriage anymore. We don't argue about anything else really. 

I'm honestly thinking of divorce over this even though I love her to death. But I need to be happy. I also was thinking about finding someone on the side with the same problem but a wife that is desperate for romance and desire. I know that's terrible but a divorce isn't a good situation for my kids. Plus we have a home togeather.

I'm a drinker or druggie. I don't hit her. I do get verbal when we are arguing. But until yesterday I wasn't wicked mean.

I mean what women wouldn't want a guy that wants to cuddle, have amazing love making, orally please her , provide her with all her needs financially, be with a in shape guy, do my own laundry, talks, good father etc.... I don't get it! What am I missing ? Or is it her issues?


Anyone else experience this ? Thank you in advance for any suggestions or thoughts..


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

Big correction how do I edit? I am not a drinker or druggie. Typing on cell phone so makes it tough.


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

Hey J Deere I'm almost in the exact same scenario, and I really can't offer much advice. We started counseling last Friday and the first session I was told to back off by the counselor, and stop bringing up the issue for now. The reason being my wife can't even talk about sex which I just figured out in this session, so pretty much all the complaining, questioning, talks were going in one ear and out the other. Most likely to the point where resentment towards you kicks in just like the resentment that you're feeling towards her

So I guess be patient and see if a mediator can help you two. At least she made an effort to go talk to someone. It took us almost a year to finally stop coming up with excuses not to go. 

I know your pain and you're not alone. I have contemplated getting a divorce over sex too, but is that selfish on my part. Who knows. 

Good luck

FYI - No sex for a week now!lol we have very different schedules so I'm not blaming anyone. I did complain about the quickie session in our first appointment so now no action seems to be a result of that. We usually do a quickie before I leave for work at 130am. I can sense some awkwardness now when it would be the time we typically do it.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

How did counseling go?

What did you say that was "wicked mean?"

Besides her physical body, do you think your wife feels like you value her for her non-physical/non-sexual attributes?


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

Well I don't call her names or swear at her but I called her a *****. That she couldnt get a job cause she didn't graduate h.s. I was mean. Counseling in about 9 hrs. Haven't gone yet. She may feel all I want her for is sex I guess but after 16 years really? We spend other time togeather obviously so that's a weird thing for her to think after all these years. Its not just sex. Its overall intimacy.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

J.deere said:


> Well I don't call her names or swear at her but I called her a *****. That she couldnt get a job cause she didn't graduate h.s. I was mean. Counseling in about 9 hrs. Haven't gone yet. *She may feel all I want her for is sex I guess but after 16 years really? We spend other time togeather obviously so that's a weird thing for her to think after all these years. * Its not just sex. Its overall intimacy.


OK, I misunderstood when you posted. 

And it's not weird for her to think that after 16 years. It's actually quite normal for a woman, after 16 years, to want to feel desired for what she brings to the relationship and why you love her other than her aging body. You obviously don't value her intelligence since you insult it. What else do you value about her?


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

Thanks for writing Juice. Keep me posted. It really is frustrating. I just want to know why instead of guessing. May be she doesn't know? I think its her problem . she is going thru a mid life crisis or something. Her Dr just put her on an anti depressant and I'm like oh great the side effect kills libido . just what probably will finish us off. The. Meds are suppose to be for anxiety treatment not depression. 

At first I was hurt now I'm getting more bitter. Im still hurt but essentially she is pushing me away by being like this. I've never done the break thing. Like a week or two. I can never hold out. I know I should try. I think I'm going to reject her if she asks cause if its going to be more of the same. Am I crazy????? I know I'm confused.


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

I enjoy her company I value hanging out with her. We some times will check out an antique store. I enjoy our conversations. But she doesn't go deep into her feelings. I've asked her about your dreams, goals, fantasies and she doesn't answer. Also i have told her she is smarter than me in other ways. Better social skills. Shes just not book smart big deal. But in order to get a good job she will need to further advance her education. She was taking GED classes but didn't study! I think she is bored now kids are older. She doesn't have to work but if she's bored. If she is bored why doesn't she be a better wife and concentrate on that ?


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## DoneWithHurting (Feb 4, 2015)

How do you KNOW that she isn't involved with another man?


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

Well no one knows for sure. But I don't think she would lie. I've checked her phone. I pretty much know when she's out. But has it ever happened I don't know. ( guilt?). But she denies ever cheating over the years so I have to believe that.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

J.deere said:


> I enjoy her company I value hanging out with her. We some times will check out an antique store. I enjoy our conversations. But she doesn't go deep into her feelings. I've asked her about your dreams, goals, fantasies and she doesn't answer. Also i have told her she is smarter than me in other ways. Better social skills. Shes just not book smart big deal. But in order to get a good job she will need to further advance her education. She was taking GED classes but didn't study! I think she is bored now kids are older. She doesn't have to work but if she's bored. If she is bored why doesn't she be a better wife and concentrate on that ?


Do you think she feels like you respect and admire her?


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

I don't think its that. May be its just she feels that's all I want from her like someone mentioned ? As a guy I can't understand that concept cause I want my wife. I'm not looking at porn. So in a healthy relationship who wouldn't want sex ?


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

Tough question. Respect her well I've told her she's a great mother to our kids. Admire her well I tell her she is beautiful. Used to say she has a kind heart but the other day I told her she has a cold heart toward me. She says I'm verbal abusive. I don't think so. I think she's too sensitive


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

J.deere said:


> Tough question. Respect her well I've told her she's a great mother to our kids. Admire her well I tell her she is beautiful. Used to say she has a kind heart but the other day I told her she has a cold heart toward me. She says I'm verbal abusive. I don't think so. I think she's too sensitive


If your conversations were recorded, would you want a judge to hear how you speak to your wife? Would a judge deem your comments as verbally abusive or as her being too sensitive?

I've been your wife. And you are my ex husband. He said I "never wanted sex" even though our frequency was about how yours is. Told me how abnormal we were compared to everyone else. He was completely fixated on sex. He was emotionally and verbally abusive. From my perspective, I started to really NOT want sex with him because I didn't feel valued for anything except my body. He knew where I worked, but could not have told anyone what I did for a living, and didn't care to hear about it. Thought every female who works in an office is a secretary. He still has no real clue what I did in that job (or what I do now) and has ridiculed every job I've had because it's not hard labor like his job. He took jabs about things I enjoyed doing, such as wasting time and money on reading People magazine. I did not feel like he was proud of me or interested in me and what I was about. He didn't value my qualities of compassion, intelligence, kindness, generosity. All he cared about was whether or not his sexual needs were met. And the fact that the physical part of me was all he saw and all he seemed to care about MADE me adverse to him sexually. He's a very attractive man, but I became repulsed because of how he made me feel about myself. 

I share this only to remind you to check yourself in how you are making your wife feel by your actions, by the way you talk to her, and about her to others. What, beyond beauty, you admire about he and make her feel good about.


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

@secondtime. Sorry that you can't stand your husband, but take it easy on the guy. I'm sure at some point she was as well as you said some not so nice things to your husband. I know my wife has and you need to take it with a grain of salt. So stop bashing j Deere for wanting quality sex and not boring lay there sex.


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

Thanks Juice. But I'm interested in what she has to say. There is some truth in there. How about this last November on a girls night out I found out from one of her friends she was flirting with a guy who was buying her drinks. At one point she went outside got into the passenger seat of his van. She said she just wanted a beer. Said he pulled out a drug but she didn't do anything. Also nothing sexual. Is that right ? She said it was just for the free alcohol. I think it was she liked the attention. She said it wasn't cause she wanted sex.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

J.deere said:


> Thanks Juice. But I'm interested in what she has to say. There is some truth in there. How about this last November on a girls night out I found out from one of her friends she was flirting with a guy who was buying her drinks. At one point she went outside got into the passenger seat of his van. She said she just wanted a beer. Said he pulled out a drug but she didn't do anything. Also nothing sexual. Is that right ? She said it was just for the free alcohol. I think it was she liked the attention. She said it wasn't cause she wanted sex.


She went out to his van for a beer when they were already at a bar?


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

So that's my fault she did that? If she wants me to stop being "verbal abusive". Why not she try in the marriage , be more intimate and sexual and treat me like I deserve to be treated as her husband. I've supported her gladly for 16 yrs. I ask very little from her other than love me, and treat me good. If she cared about me and desired me it would come natural, no?


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

Yes


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

J.deere said:


> So that's my fault she did that? If she wants me to stop being "verbal abusive". Why not she try in the marriage , be more intimate and sexual and treat me like I deserve to be treated as her husband. I've supported her gladly for 16 yrs. I ask very little from her other than love me, and treat me good. If she cared about me and desired me it would come natural, no?


Your fault she did what? I'm not following.

Yes, she should try in the marriage, but you could get caught in a viscous cycle. For example, in my marriage, before we divorced, we got caught in a viscous cycle of him treating me poorly and making me feel bad about myself, so I sought out relationships with other people (women/friendships) and spent time with people who I DID feel good about myself around, he got mad that I wasn't giving HIM the attention, treated me poorly, so I spent more time with people who did treat me well. Eventually he got so angry he solicited sex on Craigslist and found it. I'm not saying you're doing that, or would resort to soliciting online sex, but it's what I mean by a viscous cycle.....which came first, the chicken or the egg? Him treating me poorly or me not spending enough time with him, my partner? We both played a part in that dynamic.


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

A month or two prior they also said at another bar on a girls night out similar thing but she just walked outside out front. Said she was just talking. Again just for drinks. So what does that mean? She admits it was wrong


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

Is that why she is seeking so much girlfriend time ? Always on her phone texting them .. Wanting to hang out to sing karaoke or cookouts. Sometimes she invites me. Again I know its not to sneak off to be with a guy cause she post pics on fb and so do her friends. 

So if you are right. I'm not saying you are totally right. But if so from your experience, can it be fixed? Or is it too late ? If so what needs to happen on my part.

Thank you for your time by the way. If it makes you feel better it may save a marriage I hope. From your point of view and your perspective what would you have needed. 

P.s. I've been faithful. So far but when the rejection hits hard , the feeling of being love dwindles its tough not to want that back .

I have been trying in this marriage. But I feel somehow I'm still missing what I need to be doing differently.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

J.deere said:


> Well I don't call her names or swear at her but I called her a *****. That she couldnt get a job cause she didn't graduate h.s. I was mean. Counseling in about 9 hrs. Haven't gone yet. She may feel all I want her for is sex I guess but after 16 years really? We spend other time togeather obviously so that's a weird thing for her to think after all these years. Its not just sex. Its overall intimacy.


It's the words, the things that seem little to you that wounds deeply and you are left with a wife who has probably hardened her heart against you. Once she turns off emotionally you touching her, kissing her, hugging her will be like a stranger trying to do that to her. You have wounded her and now this is what happens. I would suggest you find out about Love Busters and read. It looks like you have had angry outbursts and selfish demands. The way you write about yourself is very self affirming, I wonder


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

J.deere said:


> Thanks Juice. But I'm interested in what she has to say. There is some truth in there. How about this last November on a girls night out I found out from one of her friends she was flirting with a guy who was buying her drinks. At one point she went outside got into the passenger seat of his van. She said she just wanted a beer. Said he pulled out a drug but she didn't do anything. Also nothing sexual. Is that right ? She said it was just for the free alcohol. I think it was she liked the attention. She said it wasn't cause she wanted sex.


do you honestly believe that? They did at least something sexual.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

J.deere said:


> Is that why she is seeking so much girlfriend time ? Always on her phone texting them .. Wanting to hang out to sing karaoke or cookouts. Sometimes she invites me. Again I know its not to sneak off to be with a guy cause she post pics on fb and so do her friends.
> 
> So if you are right. I'm not saying you are totally right. But if so from your experience, can it be fixed? Or is it too late ? If so what needs to happen on my part.
> 
> ...


Well, I can't answer for your wife, but yes, it is possible her girlfriends make her feel better about herself than you do. (I also just think it's natural for women to be texting each other, etc. Remember how much our moms used to talk on the phone to their girlfriends while drinking Tab? :wink2. Women generally enjoy connecting with other women. 

I'm not really sure if our marriage could have been saved or not. We did reconcile last year after 4 years of divorce, and that crashed and burned. I feel for him "having changed" when he really hadn't, and it's 100% for certain now that he has zero respect for me. He doesn't have a lot of respect for most people. 

I think when there is a mismatch in a relationship, sexually speaking, it's almost always a symptom of a bigger problem and not just that the person doesn't like sex and intimacy. There's a reason she's not desiring that with YOU, and it's probably not about your physical attractiveness. It's probably about your attractiveness to her just as a human being and how you treat her and make her feel about herself. All my opinion of course! 

As far as men buying her drinks, how do you feel about that? And why are her girlfriends being tattle tales and telling you about this? She definitely should not be "going outside" with them - both from a marriage standpoint and a safety perspective! 

What's an example of something you've said to her that she finds verbally abusive and you think she's just being too sensitive?


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

Honestly I don't think she did anything sexual. He had a friend of his standing outside the van I think that when her friend went looking for her he said they were doing drugs. She denies that also. She said she went out there cause he had beer in his van. I mean what am I to think she us lying? Cause if I question it or bring it up she says I don't trust her.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

aine said:


> It's the words, the things that seem little to you that wounds deeply and you are left with a wife who has probably hardened her heart against you. Once she turns off emotionally you touching her, kissing her, hugging her will be like a stranger trying to do that to her. You have wounded her and now this is what happens. I would suggest you find out about Love Busters and read. It looks like you have had angry outbursts and selfish demands. The way you write about yourself is very self affirming, I wonder


I agree. I have very deep wounds from the things my ex said to me. Many times he'd say things "in jest" and then say Oh I was just kidding, c'mon, don't be so sensitive! He does this with everyone. It's his way, and we had many, many talks about it, even in counseling.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

J.deere said:


> Honestly I don't think she did anything sexual. He had a friend of his standing outside the van I think that when her friend went looking for her he said they were doing drugs. She denies that also. She said she went out there cause he had beer in his van. I mean what am I to think she us lying? Cause if I question it or bring it up she says I don't trust her.


They were doing drugs. Women don't go out to some random guy's van for a beer in the middle of a girl's night out....at a bar....


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

I know its hard for me to believe she just sat in passenger seat talking. I mean what are the chances of that ? But I will never find out right? Should I bring it up during counselor time today? Think it will come out?


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

I know in her early 20" s she tried coke. I asked her one day about it and she did admit the way it made her feel. But I know she doesn't do drugs cause I do the bills and make the money. But could of that night she done it again after 20 years? Idk.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

J.deere said:


> I know in her early 20" s she tried coke. I asked her one day about it and she did admit the way it made her feel. But I know she doesn't do drugs cause I do the bills and make the money. But could of that night she done it again after 20 years? Idk.


I'm assuming tonight is not going to be your only counseling session....I think at some point, yes, you bring it up. Not sure about on the first night. I think you just need to see how the conversation is going.

On another note, this is something I read several years ago and sent to my children's school principal. It applies to adults as well. 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/awesome-bullying-lesson-from-a-new-york-teacher#.fpZM92Qbo


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

How important is it to know at this point? Just will probably lead to more arguing. Pretty much the stuff I say like the other day I was laying next to her looking up times when strip clubs opened . she took my phone I didn't try hiding it and got mad. I was like well if your not going to be intimate with me. I think I wanted to get caught to make her jealous or something. I can't think of examples of me being verbal abusive that is the thing. More like things that may I guess offend her. But for a few weeks its just constant riding her for answers and to be more intimate.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> They were doing drugs. Women don't go out to some random guy's van for a beer in the middle of a girl's night out....at a bar....


This. It sounds like she is going out to do more than just hang out with the girls... if she is doing drugs what is to say she isn't engaging in sexual activity as well in her altered state?

And to follow up with what STR (crap, abbreviation sounds like I am writing STD, sorry SecondTime'Round lol) posted, women, especially those who are in a relationship, do not just go into some random guy's van ... that is not normal.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

J.deere said:


> I know in her early 20" s she tried coke. I asked her one day about it and she did admit the way it made her feel. But I know she doesn't do drugs cause I do the bills and make the money. But could of that night she done it again after 20 years? Idk.


What about drugs in exchange for favors (instead of money)?


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

But I can't stop. I text her everyday about it. Fb messages. Try talking to her. She don't want to hear it. Says that's all I talk about with her. She is going to tell counselor all I want is sex. She doesn't understand my point of view or want to do anything about it. So that to me means she has given up


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

You guys are killing me. Thinking worst case scenerio. She is a drinker not a druggie. I know this guys give me some credit. I just don't know those 2 times. May be innocent. Maybe just the attention.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

J.deere said:


> How important is it to know at this point? Just will probably lead to more arguing. Pretty much the stuff I say like the other day I was laying next to her looking up times when strip clubs opened . she took my phone I didn't try hiding it and got mad. I was like well if your not going to be intimate with me. I think I wanted to get caught to make her jealous or something. I can't think of examples of me being verbal abusive that is the thing. More like things that may I guess offend her. But for a few weeks its just constant riding her for answers and to be more intimate.


How is this a man showing respect to his wife? Why would a woman want to be intimate with a man who does this?


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

Not fair. That was 3 days ago and at this point I really don't care because she doesn't. But she can repeat what I said months ago if not years and hold that against me. Well you said this or that. Time to forgive me already. I didn't get in some guys van at a bar. She has some mean stuff too. Don't be hating on me cause I'm listening to your opinion and advice. I'm not saying I haven't made mistakes . at least just stuff like that. I don't flirt with girls at a bar.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

J.deere said:


> Not fair. That was 3 days ago and at this point I really don't care because she doesn't. But she can repeat what I said months ago if not years and hold that against me. Well you said this or that. Time to forgive me already. I didn't get in some guys van at a bar. She has some mean stuff too. Don't be hating on me cause I'm listening to your opinion and advice. I'm not saying I haven't made mistakes . at least just stuff like that. I don't flirt with girls at a bar.


I'm not hating on you, but you're the one here and not your wife. She's not innocent, and neither are you. This is not all her fault and it's not all your fault. You guys definitely need counseling. I hope you get a good one who doesn't take sides with either of you.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

J.deere

First, she said she loves you but is not in love with you. Believe her! 

She was honest with you and isn't attracted to you at the moment, so stop trying to be with her sexually, for the time being. You have a lot of healing to do. Both of you. Look after yourself sexually, if need be and go to counseling and get the healing process started.

There's a lot more to come. If you are open to receiving the rest of the reasons she is not in love with you anymore there may be a chance of fixing things between you two. Whatever you do don't get angry if she opens up to you. She will clam up quick!

Listen, digest and try and fix things together. There's a lot more to come if you can actively listen to her concerns. It with take BOTH of you working hard, listening to each others and coming up with a plan moving forward.

Don't expect things to turn around overnight. It took my wife and I a year+ to get back on track.

Best of luck today. Listen, answer direct questions and be quiet and let your wife try and open up.


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

Thank you so much I needed to hear that


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

J.deere said:


> How important is it to know at this point? Just will probably lead to more arguing. Pretty much the stuff I say like the other day I was laying next to her looking up times when strip clubs opened . she took my phone I didn't try hiding it and got mad. I was like well if your not going to be intimate with me. I think I wanted to get caught to make her jealous or something.


J.deere

This kind of thing is only going to make you more unattractive to her. Just don't...Stop with the verbal put downs too. 

That could be a HUGE issue for her.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

J.deere said:


> Thank you so much I needed to hear that


No problem, J.deere.

Man to man. The short answer right now is to STFU and listen with an open mind. You may here some sh!t that will really hurt, but whatever you do don't get angry. Just listen!

EDIT: J.deere, when we were reconciling, the hardest thing I had to learn was not to go into "fix it" mode immediately. I HAD to learn that it was going to be a very long process.


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

This may sound like a stupid question. How do I stop? I mean I want to but then I start thinking about things , want answers and I keep bringing this stuff up. I'm thinking go back off line completely until things get better . it more of a text/messaging thing. I think I can refrain verbally


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

But I think at 1600 hrs only 7 hrs from now I have high hopes that if I listen let her do the talking I will have a lot of my questions finally answered . this counselor was recommended by my friend and he said it helped them . but he did say some thing that made me think . he said we are around 40. Married. He says that is the way it is. You just don't have a great sex life anymore. It told me took look at porn lol. I don't want to. I want my wife. Totally different of course the real thing. I don't know how guys get addicted to porn and their wives are willing.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

J.deere said:


> This may sound like a stupid question. How do I stop? I mean I want to but then I start thinking about things , want answers and I keep bringing this stuff up. I'm thinking go back off line completely until things get better . it more of a text/messaging thing. I think I can refrain verbally


TAM is a tool and you can vent, chat and have conversations here. Or just toss ideas out like you're doing now. 

The answers may or may not come. I think a lot of that depends on you. She needs to learn to trust you again. That takes a LONG time so prepare yourself.

You'd better refrain verbally or you're screwed. Just being honest here...

What is a text messaging thing?


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

J.deere said:


> This may sound like a stupid question. How do I stop? I mean I want to but then I start thinking about things , want answers and I keep bringing this stuff up. I'm thinking go back off line completely until things get better . it more of a text/messaging thing. I think I can refrain verbally


Maybe have a friend hold you accountable. I have the same problem with my ex. I'm very reactive when it comes to him and often regret things I text and say. It got pretty bad before I moved out. He still tries to get me going to get a reaction out of me. He just did it yesterday, and the timing of it seems to be before his counseling sessions so he has some fodder to discuss with his counselor (i.e. look at what a ***** she's being!). I did not take the bait yesterday. But anyway, during our break up when tension was sky high, I'd sometimes promise my sister that I'd give HER $200 if I engaged with him, especially via text. It's obviously an honor system kind of thing . It really helped me, though. I never had to pay her the money.

You constantly pestering her is going to get you absolutely nowhere.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

J.deere said:


> But I think at 1600 hrs only 7 hrs from now I have high hopes that if I listen let her do the talking I will have a lot of my questions finally answered . this counselor was recommended by my friend and he said it helped them


Don't get your hopes up, it could take a very long time. Think of today as an introduction. 



> but he did say some thing that made me think . he said we are around 40. Married. He says that is the way it is. You just don't have a great sex life anymore. It told me took look at porn lol. I don't want to. I want my wife. Totally different of course the real thing. I don't know how guys get addicted to porn and their wives are willing.


BS, we're older than 40 and our sex life has never been better! Don't go the porn route. That will just drive another wedge between you two. 

Good luck, gotta run now.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

T&T said:


> BS, we're older than 40 and our sex life has never been better! Don't go the porn route. That will just drive another wedge between you two.
> 
> Good luck, gotta run now.


Not 40 yet but completely agree with T&T, whoever is telling you that is full of poop. Honestly sex is much better now than it was even 10 years ago (with the same person I should add lol).


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

Via cell phone or fb chat messaging either or both 

I'm finishing up a 16 hr shift at work. Don't usually work these. Then 4 hrs off till counsel meeting. In a good way I will be tired and not fired up. I'm going in open minded and going to listen . not get mad . I'm really trying here. I agreed to today even knowing the long shift because I want help fixing us. That's why I'm on here. Open minded. All of you have been great. Except for the people saying she's cheating and tried drugs. She's not like that. She is a good girl.. I'm not sure if I'm to blame or just part of it. Not to sound sappy but after 16 years togeather I want the rest of my life with her. That's why this is making me go crazy constantly thinking about it. I don't want a divorce for many reasons . I know there are a lot of women out there. I just want my wife to desire me again.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

J.deere said:


> Via cell phone or fb chat messaging either or both
> 
> I'm finishing up a 16 hr shift at work. Don't usually work these. Then 4 hrs off till counsel meeting. In a good way I will be tired and not fired up. I'm going in open minded and going to listen . not get mad . I'm really trying here. I agreed to today even knowing the long shift because I want help fixing us. That's why I'm on here. Open minded. All of you have been great. Except for the people saying she's cheating and tried drugs. She's not like that. She is a good girl.. I'm not sure if I'm to blame or just part of it. Not to sound sappy but after 16 years togeather I want the rest of my life with her. That's why this is making me go crazy constantly thinking about it. I don't want a divorce for many reasons . I know there are a lot of women out there. I just want my wife to desire me again.


Please post and let us know how it goes. We're all pulling for you!


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

I will check back with updates and for your support.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> Not 40 yet but completely agree with T&T, whoever is telling you that is full of poop. Honestly sex is much better now than it was even 10 years ago (with the same person I should add lol).


Well, we've had lots of practice. You know what they say "practice makes perfect" >


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

How did your first counseling session go, @J.deere?


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

J.deere said:


> Via cell phone or fb chat messaging either or both
> 
> I'm finishing up a 16 hr shift at work. Don't usually work these. Then 4 hrs off till counsel meeting. In a good way I will be tired and not fired up. I'm going in open minded and going to listen . not get mad . I'm really trying here. I agreed to today even knowing the long shift because I want help fixing us. That's why I'm on here. Open minded. All of you have been great. *Except for the people saying she's cheating and tried drugs. She's not like that. She is a good girl..* I'm not sure if I'm to blame or just part of it. Not to sound sappy but after 16 years togeather I want the rest of my life with her. That's why this is making me go crazy constantly thinking about it. I don't want a divorce for many reasons . I know there are a lot of women out there. I just want my wife to desire me again.



Majority of the times a woman says I love you but not in love with you, there is someone else she is giving her affections to. Combined with GNO that she's been seen going into a guys car. Come on, dude. She's not sexing you up because she's being loyal to someone else. 

You need to do some digging to truly find out. She could be having or looking for an exit affair. I hope not but you really need to know what you're dealing with. You will be wasting money on counseling if she's already with someone else.


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

The 1st session went well. The counselor we seen has 35 yrs experience. He was just what we needed. 

So he told us she needs to relax herself before she is able to want sex again. 
She needs to have a reset if you will in her mind. 

My instructions to not bring up sex at all with her.

To wait for her to come to me for sex. At least until she feels comfortable again.

We can still cuddle, hug and kiss , hold hands all that stuff but when it comes to sex its her call. Also not to get into with her technique , positions , etc... Just plain love making with a concentration on emotions.

This is only phase 1.

Down the road we will get into the other stuff.

Also to spend quality time togeather that has nothing to do with sex. Fun stuff like play cards or whatever we choose to do togeather.

We both are encoruaged to masterbate privately if the biological need is there but the moment isn't right with each other. 

After the class I took her shopping and we had dinner and drinks.

At home I was exhausted so fell asleep but she said she cuddled with me.

This morning she gave me a bj.

We haven't argued since therapy. I've kept my tone low. No raising my voice. I'm doing what the therapist said and at least for now its working. I'm not saying hurtful things nor do I have the urge to.

She is in her 1 on 1 therapy session with a different counselor. I'm thinking she won't need to go to 2nd one anymore just the therapist we see togeather. But can't hurt.

So I think this may work. Your advice was really good regarding the verbal abuse.


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

The counseling is covered by my.insurance so I'm not wasting money. I can honestly tell you this wasn't about affairs. Besides that was 9 months ago on the gno.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Good start!!


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

T and T I agree that was bad advice from a friend . just cause a couple has been married awhile and in early 40s doesn't mean we still can't act like we are in our 20s.


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

I know on this web page there aren't always happy endings...... I'm hoping we are a success story. I truely believe its just a bump in the road in our story book.


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

Second time thank you again. You made me really think with your questions. Regarding respect for her and admiration and so forth. You allowed me to think of it from a women's perspective. I feel I was being non-sensative and selfish and trying to force the issue.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Aww, thank you and I'm glad you took it to heart. I think it was really good you came here and heard from all of us before your first session. I think you were probably a lot more open-minded than you would have been otherwise.


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

I agree. I mean I hate to air out my personal business on the internet but its annonomous.  I actually know it helped. It still is helping because it really is making me think , have hope, and put things in perspective. Sometimes a person needs that when emotions run high and judgement gets clouded and it seems only like despair.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

You received some good advice IMO and it sounds like you reacted positively. Your wife as well.

Keep us posted, J deere.


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

Doubts/fears

Just thinking out loud here (day 3) early am

What if this doesn't change things ?

I mean there will be positive gains regardless such as arguments reduced to zero or at least bare minimum. Better connection with my wife. A wife that no longer will be subjected to the banter and pressure of intimacy, staying out of divorce.

But what if things still don't heat up to the passion and novelty that I desire?

She told counselor when he asked how often would she like sex and her answer every other day. That's a great answer I think. 

But frequency wasn't so much the problem although it appeared to have been dropping off some it was more the lack of novelty, adventure, passion , romance.

For examples: the simple act of putting on lingerie ( nothing uncomfortable for her ) was an issue. Or, doing some different positions. Or, better sex which really would be actually love making. Or, just being submissive.

I know I need to give it a chance to get better. I know I was a big part of the problem. But there has to be some accountability on her part as well. Or, is it possible through my words and actions it makes it impossible for her to want to please my like years ago.

The honeymoon phase was the best years of my life. Probably lasted longer than most. The memories are so good and vivid it was like yesterday although it was 16 years ago when the amazing bond with my wife began. 

Back then she could do no wrong in my eyes. Back then I didn't judge her. Back then her past didn't bother me. 

Knowing her past and then comparing our relationship I know is wrong on a levels but it made me think if she was like that with someone else why not me? I'm suppose to be the "special man" in her life like no other cause she married me.

I've seen glimpses of what could be. On my birthday and fathers day she treated me like a king and the sex was out of this world.

Then it was back to the same old. So why just be like that on those two days only? 

Is she afraid I will expect it every time?

My favorite position which she used to do she won't now. I understand her back hurts from time to time but the position isn't crazy to effect that.

Its almost like she is with holding on purpose. Like a resentment type of thing.

I think as we get older sex isn't like when we were teens where we'd take anything we got. Now its more about better sex, emotional sex, and keeping it from getting boring. I wish she'd understand that point of view.

She said we've done adventurous things in the past and I got the sense that means she wasn't interested in being adventurous again. Such as sex on the beach with the ambience of the waves crashing and the excitement of being out in the open. 

I've painfully had to hear go find that with someone else, someone younger that can fulfill my needs. I don't think she really meant that but just the same. I explained I don't want that I want you.

How can a women be so fragile, insensitive, non-pleasing to their husbands?

It makes me wonder if some women are not capable of long term relationships once the honeymoon is over and the novelty ends.

The old sayings about once a women has what she wants with children , house, support, that they don't feel the need to be sexual. 

Then there is the hormone issue. Eventually her sex hormones (if they haven't already lowers) and then menopause which is another whole issue.

Its no wonder men cheat, divorce and go with much younger women. I blame that on middle age women that allow themselves to not be sexual.

I know life isn't fair and all but this is something that really sucks for men. Especially husband that want the love life to remain constant.


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

J.deere said:


> Doubts/fears
> 
> Just thinking out loud here (day 3) early am
> 
> ...


J.deer my friend, you are going through a mid-life crisis. This is something that affects every man on the planet at one time or the other. In the words of the great unknown philosopher "This too shall pass".

Quit worrying about yesterday and quit thinking about tomorrow. You can't change or re-live yesterday and there may be no tomorrow.

You need to live like an alcoholic. All you can control is today. Go and love your wife today. Treat her with dignity and respect even if you think she doesn't deserve it.

J.deere I'm in my 60s. My wife and I have still have loving, intimate, sensual sex. Is it the same athletic porn style sex in our 20s? I just sit here chuckling to myself. Of course not. Age, arthritis, cancer, hormone loss and the grinding pace of life itself make that an impossibility. But sex is still quite wonderful if you truly love and respect someone and you focus on who they are and what they bring to your life.

Pull yourself out of that victim chair and go and love, honor and respect your wife. Enough of these maudlin musings about the course of your life. The only thing that matters is today.


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## J.deere (Jul 8, 2015)

Update: we are doing great ! Therapy and learning how I wasn't helping the situation. I took a leave from work to concentrate all my efforts on working on things and it worked. Now to only improve and build back that bond and emotional intimacy.


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