# In Limbo



## armstrng (Dec 26, 2019)

Been married 11 years, 2 kids. Raising kids for 10 years now with pretty much no help from family or anyone has been brutal on us and our marriage. Neither of us has been perfect, but no infidelity or anything serious like that. The past year and a half has just been miserable. Before that we had unresolved issues (who doesn't?) but we got by and still managed to find some happiness and love. Then Sept 2018 out of the blue she handed me a poem she'd written about what a bad husband I am. Turns out she was dealing with some drama with her mom and sister, and it all got turned on me. Continued to fight me over the next weeks, and I reacted badly out of hurt, called her names and whatnot. We went to counseling Fall 2018, but after about 5-6 sessions focusing on everything that I do that's wrong, as soon as we started looking at the other side of the story, she stormed out of the counseling session, not to return.

Somehow things got patched up in November last year, and things were pretty good for a few months. Then for no apparent reason she just started picking fights out of thin air, often during the rare times we finally got an hour or so away from the kids. Her dog died in this past spring, and her father died just in October. Things were already bad, but now we're barely even speaking. We had just started up counseling again (new counselor) before her dad died, and had really only been to one session (actually a 2-3 "power session" that she had to leave early... massage appointment). Since then the counselor texted me a few times to see how things were going and offer advice, but I can't seem to get a straight answer from the counselor or my wife on whether we're ever going back. Now the counselor doesn't seem to be returning my messages, even when all I'm asking is whether we should schedule another session.

I do know she saw an attorney for an initial consult about 6 weeks ago (she left her credit card statement just laying on top the junk pile), she got furious when I asked what the charge was (because I was "snooping"). As far as I know she is not moving forward with that, but also doesn't seem to want us to move forward in any positive way. Over the past few months I have made many attempts at peace offerings - buy her flowers (that wind up in the trash), wrote her a long letter about how great our future could be, and just generally being as nice as I can. But nothing makes any difference, she only ever talks to me if it's about logistics with the kids. A few weeks ago when our kids were singing with the choir at church I tried to touch her hand and she just pulled away and shot me an ugly look.

Yesterday was Christmas, and she got me a few things but nothing that took any effort at all. I figured I would at least see how the holidays go, but I am sadder and lonelier than ever. I have suffered too much rejection to really attempt any more peace offerings, and find myself spending lots of time running the numbers to see how much a divorce would hit me financially. I have already been experiencing what life is like without her, the real her disappeared a while ago, I don't know who this is in my house any more. I wonder why I am hesitating to leave - is it because of the kids? They are already witnessing loud fights and ugliness. Is it because I will be ashamed and embarrassed, when people find out? Is it because I think somehow she still needs me but has no idea how to show it? Or does she just need me to pay the bills and help with the kids? Is it because I will feel so guilty? I already feel guilty fantasizing about how much happier I would be if we do divorce.

I am just so skeptical that the real her of years ago is ever coming back. This in-between nothingness is hell, or at least purgatory. "Love is patient" but we all have limits. I wish we could get back to at least one more counseling session. Maybe I just want the counselor to confirm that she is done, and there is no point in me trying any more.

JA


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

It takes 2. You can bust your ass all you want but if she's not on board you are wasting your time.

Just to be sure I'd check my phone bill. Go online it only takes 15 minutes or so and rule that out.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear you find yourself in this situation. I know it's hard on you and probably hard on the children as well.

Whatever you do, do not move out of your home until there is some kind of settlement about child custody and time sharing.

There is a book that I think might help you. Don't let the title of it throw you off... "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. I'm not suggesting it because I think your wife is having an affair. The point of suggesting the book is that it talks about how a person gets to the point that your wife is at and suggests some things to do to turn things around. After that book, the same author has two more that are about rebuilding a marriage: "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs".

Does your wife have a job (not a stay at home mom)?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Your wife is behaving like a woman with a boyfriend. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

@armstrng What is her network of friends like? Does she have any close friends? You mentioned your kids in the church choir. What is your spiritual life like? Did it used to be important to both of you, just one of you, or was it just a think you were supposed to do? 

Have you considered sitting down with her and discussing what a future would be like, for each of you, were you to split up? Financial considerations? Fears of growing old without a lifelong companion? 

You didn't mention anything about intimacy. You can't get very far in a thread before someone brings it up. What was your sex life like before, and when/if did it change?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

armstrng said:


> I do know she saw an attorney for an initial consult about 6 weeks ago (she left her credit card statement just laying on top the junk pile), she got furious when I asked what the charge was (because I was "snooping"). As far as I know she is not moving forward with that, but also doesn't seem to want us to move forward in any positive way.
> 
> Or does she just need me to pay the bills and help with the kids?
> 
> I wish we could get back to at least one more counseling session. Maybe I just want the counselor to confirm that she is done, and there is no point in me trying any more.


I picked ^^this^^ out from your post, because it stood out to me as most relevant. I'm giving my opinion as a woman here, so I'll make it short and sweet: she is done. I don't know if she has the hots for another guy, is in an emotional affair, or if she's having a physical affair. But she is displaying nothing more than contempt for you. No need to stick a fork in her; she's done.

You pay the bills, you help with the kids, and that's all you are to her now. I fail to see what one more counseling session will accomplish. If you want to know if your wife is through with the marriage, just ask her. See what she has to say. It will save you the time and money of having a counselor referee.

It stinks to be in this situation during the holiday season, but you need to recognize the reality of what is going on here. And PLEASE see an attorney ASAP. And like others have advised, check out her phone and other social media. There may already be another guy waiting in the wings.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Listen man, this sucks.

But any woman that writes you a poem to tell you how much she doesn't want to be with you, starts fights for months when she's around you, and is seeing a divorce attorney behind your back... is likely done.

Your best bet now is to get ready for you to be done, too. Which means a lawyer and backing away from her and all that. Because you'll be in a better position if she pulls the pin, but she might also realize that you could be gone, and rethink this.

Either way you're better off, so that's what I recommend.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

This is pretty much my story, until she changed her mind and gave me duty sex, pretending we were still together so she could stay in the house with the kids (this is what she told me after). I agree that she's done. I was the bad man and still am. There's nothing you can do to change that.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She’s sending a very clear message. Could she change her mind? Possibly but not likely. Are you willing to continue waiting around (while letting your children see all that conflict and strife)? It’s time for a serious discussion about the future.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

It appears your W is done. Once detached it is very hard to get back the attachment. Consulting a lawyer is a very bad sign. The question then remains, what did YOU do to get your W to this point? Did you simply make the money, pay the bills and call it being a good H and father? 

In short, what is your part in this failing marriage? 

I do not detect an affair situation here. Specifically since your W consulted a lawyer. Many affair stories I read the lawyer consultation of the WW/WH does not occur until the discovery is made and the betrayed H/W consults a lawyer. Could be wrong. Check anyway.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sad but true, for reasons that have nothing to do with you your W is showing all signs she's leaving you sooner rather than later.

Best for you to take the reigns from her hands regarding your own future. Or she'll ride you over a cliff after stealing everything thing from you she can, emotionally, physically and financially. 

Make no mistake your welfare is the last thing in her mind. Protect yourself and your personal future.

And quick. Quickly low key get your affairs in order. Then or simultaneously stop paying her credit cards. Get her off yours. 

Get nimble financially. Spend money on health, clothes, and personal items you may need to promote your own prosperity without her. She will take all the money she can as quickly as she can when, on her timetable, she dumps you and maybe even tries to get you out of the house any way she can. So she keeps living in the house, not even inconvenienced.

Put things on your timetable, not hers. 

She's already shown her intentions now its only a matter of when.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

For sure stop completely with your "peace offerings" and favors and niceties. All you are doing is looking weak in her eyes by doing those things 

What exactly are the issues here? What do you fight about? Why does she have such contempt? Is there something you did in the past that she still holds anger about? She might be cheating, but I cant really get a read on that for sure. Has she come to you over the years expressing unhappiness? If so, did you just disregard and rugsweep her concerns? What about a history of mental issues for her?


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

I also would like something different for you, but she doesn't love you anymore. Protect yourself, and live your life as she has moved on.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

She sounds like she's done. Either that or she is cheating on you.

You need to be done too. 

Detach, move to the guest room and file for divorce.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

She saw an attorney six weeks ago, your trashy MC is giving you the cold shoulder, she picks fights, had a couple of major deaths, accused you of snooping when SHE left something out for all to see, zero communication about how she feels and you are waiting for the other shoe to drop by giving out peace offerings?

You should have consulted an attorney six weeks ago. You are way behind.


You should find yourself a good attorney right now, if it isn’t too late in your area, to protect yourself and the rights to see your children.


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## armstrng (Dec 26, 2019)

Thanks, I really appreciate all the responses. I'll address a few of the questions you guys brought up:

* While she's definitely disengaged, there's very little chance there's anyone else in the picture at this point. Our lives really are that busy, between our jobs and constantly bringing the kids to karate, gymnastics, etc. Which has been part of the problem over the years - she has fully embraced being a mom at all costs, even if that means not being much of a wife.

* Most of our marriage (since our daughter was born), she has only worked part time (weekends during the day), but she is now very likely moving to a typical 40-hr Mon-Fri (should be formalized soon). Another part of the problem - whenever I wasn't working, she was usually working (until very recently).

* Intimacy - we always had a pretty healthy sexual relationship until Fall 2018... then about a 3 month dry spell while things were bad. Things resumed for a while, but these days I cannot so much as try to give her a hug or touch her shoulder without her pulling away. This is about 3 months now. A year or so ago, during a fight she commented that "I can take care of those needs just fine by myself, you really don't add anything to the experience." 

* InAbsentia, it's interesting you referred to "duty sex" about your situation. In my individual counseling session, our counselor asked that very question (about the past year, before it stopped). Maybe.

* What did I do to contribute to our problems? Early in our marriage (10 years ago) she found out I had looked at porn on occasion, and so I stopped. I understand why she was hurt, but her reaction was WAY out of proportion, and as with everything I have ever done that wasn't perfect over the years, it never goes away. There is no forgiveness, no moving past anything. It can always be brought up years later, for any reason. There have been fights over the years where we have BOTH called each other not so nice names. But while hers are justified (and soon forgotten), mine (very rarely the B word, C word) are simply unforgivable, and the only thing we ever seem to talk about in counseling. Her other main gripe over the years is that I don't appreciate her - the endless battle over who's got it easier or who does more work. I can say I work very hard at a full time salaried job (nearly all of our money), have to do my own laundry, cook my own meals, and do a LOT of the cleaning and shuttling the kids around. But somehow I still hear about how I didn't change enough diapers way back when (when she was at home all day with the kids and I was at the office!)

* Someone asked about mental health issues - I have considered this possibility. Her two sisters have both been treated for bi polar, her one sister eventually died of an oxy overdose. She occasionally shows signs of delusion/paranoia but it's been rare.

I just think the bottom line is that she doesn't believe marriage should require work and effort, and if it does, then you're with the wrong person.

I wonder if when she consulted the lawyer, she realized what hew new financial situation would be like, and so she is waiting to see if things get any better with us. But only passively. Or maybe just buying time. I wonder if she thinks this can just be the new normal - where we all live in the house together and pretend to be a family, but certainly not a couple. I have tried to let her know that this simply cannot go on much longer.

Thank you again to each of you who responded,

JA


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Busy means nothing. The reason someone said cheating is due to her picking fights and snooping comment. Now you added lack of intimacy. Obviously, if she is detached and all of the fights the no sex is understandable. Still, you have posted many of the red flags for cheaters. If you do not know, she may be emotionally and not sexually cheating.


Also, if it has been a year, you are officially in a no sex marriage. 

Sounds like you did what many couples do, you catered to your kids instead of yourselves and that is never good for a marriage.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

When children are brought into the world, a W becomes a mom as well. A H also becomes a dad. 

Yes it takes away from your other obligations. I recommend a book "The 5 Love Languages"

It mentions the M should come before the children. If it is not, the M most likely will end in failure.

The D will impact the children severely. 

She berates you consistently, says nothing positive about you, sex life is null and void.

Why would you want to stay. Give this person what she truly wants...... D papers.

When you serve her, you will find out a lot more about why she has been the way she has recently.

It could be a good reaction or a bad one. But at least you will know where you stand


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

armstrng said:


> * Intimacy - we always had a pretty healthy sexual relationship until Fall 2018... then about a 3 month dry spell while things were bad. Things resumed for a while, but these days I cannot so much as try to give her a hug or touch her shoulder without her pulling away. This is about 3 months now. A year or so ago, during a fight she commented that "I can take care of those needs just fine by myself, you really don't add anything to the experience."
> 
> * What did I do to contribute to our problems? Early in our marriage (10 years ago) she found out I had looked at porn on occasion, and so I stopped. I understand why she was hurt, but her reaction was WAY out of proportion, and as with everything I have ever done that wasn't perfect over the years, it never goes away.
> 
> I just think the bottom line is that she doesn't believe marriage should require work and effort, and if it does, then you're with the wrong person.


Just a few things that stood out for me. First, that was an especially selfish, callous and uncaring remark when she said "you really don't add anything to the experience." There is no thought given to who a husband would feel about hearing that. I've had a variant of that said to me as well. Actually several, but "If sex is so important to you, go out and find a hooker" was one of them. Another was "I felt like I was being raped." What you heard from your wife was a full-stop message. Nothing good comes from that remaining unchallenged. 

The porn thing? You are so convinced she's not seeing anyone else, and quite likely so, as you believe she doesn't have the time. But she DOES have the time to have an EA on-line. Her sensitivity to your on-line activity could be an indication of her own on-line playbook.

And the bit about marriage should require work? You've got to hammer that one home. That's where I am right now. For many of us, marriage, keeping it intact, is a 7 day a week job. There is no real rest from it. I mean, it doesn't have to be all-consuming (which sometimes can feel like that's the case, I get that) but it isn't something that you can say OK, I've done what you ask, time to move on.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

armstrng said:


> Thanks, I really appreciate all the responses. I'll address a few of the questions you guys brought up:
> 
> * While she's definitely disengaged, there's very little chance there's anyone else in the picture at this point. Our lives really are that busy, between our jobs and constantly bringing the kids to karate, gymnastics, etc. Which has been part of the problem over the years - she has fully embraced being a mom at all costs, even if that means not being much of a wife.


 Your wife works part time. She has a lot of time on her hands where you are completely unaware of what she is doing. For all you know, her boyfriend comes over 10 minutes after the house empties out or she drops the kids off at school and heads straight to her boyfriend's. I'm not saying that I am certain that your wife is having an affair, but her behavior certainly points in that direction. You saying that she doesn't have time is you putting your head in the sand.

Sorry. I know this isn't a fun idea, but it is something that you may want to seriously consider in order to get a handle on this situation. 

Also, you should take your wife's looking for an attorney seriously. It would be wise to find your own attorney and see what your rights and responsibilities are. Your wife has told you she is unwilling to work it out with you. She has deserted the marriage.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Another thing to consider is that your wife is moving forward with whatever plan she has. She has been seeking and possibly found an attorney. When she makes her move, it would help you to be ready to respond appropriately. 

I know this is all difficult to process and that you want to work things out with your wife, but you can't make her do something she doesn't want to do. The best option is to prepare yourself for divorce, since that is obviously where you wife is headed. In the mean time, if you want to safe your marriage with this woman who is showing nothing but contempt for you, the best you can do is to start focusing on taking care of yourself and your children. You and only you are responsible for properly taking care of yourself.

Please don't beg your wife or get into a position that makes you look weak and unappealing. That will likely make matters worse. The things that will be most likely to get your wife back are the same things that will make your life better if it doesn't work out with her. That is to prepare yourself and stop relying on her for anything. Don't be inconsiderate of her or vengeful, but also don't put her ahead of what you want or need. Distance yourself from her emotionally. If you are out of shape or unhealthy, focus on restoring your health and strength. Get emotionally healthy as well. All of these things make you more attractive and at the same time will help you to move on, because in the off chance that she takes a renewed interest in being a good wife, you will have learned to set some boundaries so you don't allow yourself to be mistreated like this anymore.

I'm not big on divorce, but I'm also not big on allowing oneself to be abused or mistreated either.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> .
> 
> And the bit about marriage should require work? You've got to hammer that one home. That's where I am right now. For many of us, marriage, keeping it intact, is a 7 day a week job. There is no real rest from it. I mean, it doesn't have to be all-consuming (which sometimes can feel like that's the case, I get that) but it isn't something that you can say OK, I've done what you ask, time to move on.


CO, "really" as you said you in the same boat, marriage is not a 7 day a week job, it's compromise but if it's a job you should leave as well. Settling is not compromise, it's giving up. Wasted years doesn't change the reality of unhappiness.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

armstrng said:


> Thanks, I really appreciate all the responses. I'll address a few of the questions you guys brought up:
> 
> * While she's definitely disengaged, there's very little chance there's anyone else in the picture at this point. Our lives really are that busy, between our jobs and constantly bringing the kids to karate, gymnastics, etc. Which has been part of the problem over the years - she has fully embraced being a mom at all costs, even if that means not being much of a wife.
> ,


All betrayed spouse's say this " those who deny" it only takes an excuse of going to get a coffee. Cheaters don't unbecome being a mom or dad. 




armstrng said:


> Most of our marriage (since our daughter was born), she has only worked part time (weekends during the day), but she is now very likely moving to a typical 40-hr Mon-Fri (should be formalized soon). Another part of the problem - whenever I wasn't working, she was usually working (until very recently).


So then she has plenty of free time in the past. And to avoid you she worked? Now is somewhat different.

*


armstrng said:


> Intimacy - we always had a pretty healthy sexual relationship until Fall 2018... then about a 3 month dry spell while things were bad. Things resumed for a while, but these days I cannot so much as try to give her a hug or touch her shoulder without her pulling away. This is about 3 months now. A year or so ago, during a fight she commented that "I can take care of those needs just fine by myself, you really don't add anything to the experience."


Typical, cheater traits she is not giving you loving, because it would be cheating on her new man. Now she pulls away, and says she can take care of those needs herself, doesn't mean by herself. Get the drift.

*


armstrng said:


> InAbsentia, it's interesting you referred to "duty sex" about your situation. In my individual counseling session, our counselor asked that very question (about the past year, before it stopped). Maybe.


It stopped says volumes, even the counselor knows this. 

*


armstrng said:


> What did I do to contribute to our problems? Early in our marriage (10 years ago) she found out I had looked at porn on occasion, and so I stopped. I understand why she was hurt, but her reaction was WAY out of proportion, and as with everything I have ever done that wasn't perfect over the years, it never goes away. There is no forgiveness, no moving past anything. It can always be brought up years later, for any reason. There have been fights over the years where we have BOTH called each other not so nice names. But while hers are justified (and soon forgotten), mine (very rarely the B word, C word) are simply unforgivable, and the only thing we ever seem to talk about in counseling. Her other main gripe over the years is that I don't appreciate her - the endless battle over who's got it easier or who does more work. I can say I work very hard at a full time salaried job (nearly all of our money), have to do my own laundry, cook my own meals, and do a LOT of the cleaning and shuttling the kids around. But somehow I still hear about how I didn't change enough diapers way back when (when she was at home all day with the kids and I was at the office!)


Porn is the 500 lb gorilla, no just a starting point for her, for her lack of forgiveness. And names is calling the kettle black when she used them also. And you have become the homemaker as well? Cook your own meals laundry and didn't do enough. And yet you wonder why you think you didn't do enough? Your roommates without benefits.

*


armstrng said:


> Someone asked about mental health issues - I have considered this possibility. Her two sisters have both been treated for bi polar, her one sister eventually died of an oxy overdose. She occasionally shows signs of delusion/paranoia but it's been rare.


Bi-polar doesn't go away, and is not rarely is seen. It's full time in your face. And needs meds, 

I


armstrng said:


> l just think the bottom line is that she doesn't believe marriage should require work and effort, and if it does, then you're with the wrong person.


The bottom line is you keep making excuses for her , and she is in control of you.




armstrng said:


> l wonder if when she consulted the lawyer, she realized what hew new financial situation would be like, and so she is waiting to see if things get any better with us. But only passively. Or maybe just buying time. I wonder if she thinks this can just be the new normal - where we all live in the house together and pretend to be a family, but certainly not a couple. I have tried to let her know that this simply cannot go on much longer.



She is just abiding her time, wanting you to leave, so she can make you look like the ahole. Passivity is not pretending.

Idle threat's are meaningless, lines in the sand are hard boundaries that cannot be crossed.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

She is not the only women in the world. You are only stuck cause you want to be. Every day you choose to stay with someone who treats you poorly is just that a choice. The truth is you can't make her love you or treat you better, you only control you. It's a harsh thing to say but complaining about it isn't going to fix it. I will never understand the people who hold on so tightly for so little. Life is short. 

It's a big world out there with many people.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Tilted 1 said:


> CO, "really" as you said you in the same boat, marriage is not a 7 day a week job, it's compromise but if it's a job you should leave as well. Settling is not compromise, it's giving up. Wasted years doesn't change the reality of unhappiness.


Either I didn't explain very well or you misinterpreted what I said. Probably likely I didn't explain too well. If there are some deep-rooted issues in a marriage, and it makes sense to keep that marriage alive because there's real hope for improvement, it's going to require continuing effort to move forward. There's not a simple patch you can throw on it and, once done, everything's better. People resist change, sometimes on an entirely subconscious level.

Is it worth the effort? That answer depends upon a lot of variables. If one party has checked out, there's really nothing that can be done. The so-called "pick me" dance doesn't work. But if it's a case of not understanding the "love language" the other is speaking, it can take a lot of time. Some people respond quickly and appropriately to a crisis and have an epiphany; others do not. That doesn't mean they can't.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

armstrng said:


> * InAbsentia, it's interesting you referred to "duty sex" about your situation. In my individual counseling session, our counselor asked that very question (about the past year, before it stopped). Maybe.


To be completely honest, I was happy with the "duty sex"... I knew she was doing it for me, but she seemed to enjoy it a lot when we got going and she always had an orgasm... and then she told me she loved me. What's not to like? :smile2: Shame that then she withdrew everything... I still don't believe her. It's got more to do with her mental issues than the actual act of sex and I believe she was sincere when she told me she loved me. She just finds it difficult to admit it, because that would be too vulnerable for her. She has to be in control.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

armstrng said:


> I wonder if when she consulted the lawyer, she realized what hew new financial situation would be like, and so she is waiting to see if things get any better with us. But only passively. *Or maybe just buying time.* I wonder if she thinks this can just be the new normal - where we all live in the house together and pretend to be a family, but certainly not a couple. I have tried to let her know that this simply cannot go on much longer.





armstrng said:


> Most of our marriage (since our daughter was born), she has only worked part time (weekends during the day), but *she is now very likely moving to a typical 40-hr Mon-Fri (should be formalized soon).* Another part of the problem - whenever I wasn't working, she was usually working (until very recently).


This is your time line. You better lawyer up quick.



armstrng said:


> While she's definitely disengaged, there's very little chance there's anyone else in the picture at this point. Our lives really are that busy, between our jobs and *constantly bringing the kids to karate, gymnastics, etc.* Which has been part of the problem over the years - she has fully embraced being a mom at all costs, even if that means not being much of a wife.


Because no mom ever has cheated with her kids coach. :slap:


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> Either I didn't explain very well or you misinterpreted what I said. Probably likely I didn't explain too well. If there are some deep-rooted issues in a marriage, and it makes sense to keep that marriage alive because there's real hope for improvement, it's going to require continuing effort to move forward. There's not a simple patch you can throw on it and, once done, everything's better. People resist change, sometimes on an entirely subconscious level.
> 
> Is it worth the effort? That answer depends upon a lot of variables. If one party has checked out, there's really nothing that can be done. The so-called "pick me" dance doesn't work. But if it's a case of not understanding the "l ove language" the other is speaking, it can take a lot of time. Some people respond quickly and appropriately to a crisis and have an epiphany; others do not. That doesn't mean they can't.


I still say if it's like a 7 day a week job, leave! And your top paragraph is not really wanting to do if there is really deep rooted issue it doesn't always make sense to keep the marriage alive. Because improvement isn't the norm. And continued effort by one person doesn't mean it's worth it ( the marriage).

But understanding the love languages of another is meaningless if the nonparticipting spouse only concern is themselves, and because the affected spouse is so close to it doesn't see it. But thinks it Noble to remain engaged, but only does this to reduce his own fears, and defends his actions thinking it's honor. 

"People resist change on an entirely subconscious level" but " doesn't mean they can't" is not mostly true, but is talking out both sides of your mouth. I get it! Spouse's think there's hope for change but you yourself explain it's not likely to happen. Why suffer needlessly for years thinking you have power to resurrect the lifeless? You can not change spots on the leopard, you never could, 

And for this comes to reason, insanity is doing the same thing over and over, trying to get a different result!


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I think it's safe to say the probability of you ever having even a mediocre marriage with this woman is incredibly low to maybe even none.

She's already consulted with an attorney. She's miles ahead of you, gathering information and making her plans.

Make an appointment with an attorney as soon as possible. You be the one to file and control the timeline.

Why do you continue to stsy married to someone who shrugs off your touch?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

When she reaches for a glass in the cupboard, see what color her armpit is.

I would bet it has no red left of it. It is near charred.

Yep, done.

..........................................

Boyfriend? 

Lord, help him.

Lord, help you rid yourself of this miserable person.

Seriously, be glad she is on the same page, wanting to separate, she does.
She did a pre-emptive strike at the Barristers office.

When he bared the truth to her, she realized she was a cooked goose.

The half she would get would make her cook her own goose. She was hoping for the whole shebang.

When the Barrister unloaded the truth on her, the shebang, she farted.

This has made her even more angry and unpleasant.

If that is possible.

That thought is a lot to swallow, so much to wallow in.




The Typist I-


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> To be completely honest, I was happy with the "duty sex"... I knew she was doing it for me, but she seemed to enjoy it a lot when we got going and she always had an orgasm... and then she told me she loved me. What's not to like? :smile2: Shame that then she withdrew everything... I still don't believe her. It's got more to do with her mental issues than the actual act of sex and I believe she was sincere when she told me she loved me. She just finds it difficult to admit it, because that would be too vulnerable for her. She has to be in control.


It sounds like your wife was a bit more "all-in" w/regards "duty sex" than most. I totally get the vulnerability and control thing. Totally my wife. I'm not 100% certain that inability to be vulnerable and having to be in control are a sign or a result or a cause of mental illness. 

The real problem is that those who have issues with our spouses as you (and I) have described tend not to see hopeful things progress to a better place over time, because they will re-write their own history to fit whatever narrative they have to have. I think the key is getting them to shake that narrative. Get them to understand why it's at odds with reality. And yeah, good luck with that. Because you're calling their core beliefs as bs.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Casual Observer said:


> It sounds like your wife was a bit more "all-in" w/regards "duty sex" than most. I totally get the vulnerability and control thing. Totally my wife. I'm not 100% certain that inability to be vulnerable and having to be in control are a sign or a result or a cause of mental illness.


My wife has also unresolved childhood issues, which mean she can't be vulnerable and has to be in control, because that's the only way she knows and needs to protect her status quo. I guess it's a mechanism she has developed over the years... 



Casual Observer said:


> And yeah, good luck with that. Because you're calling their core beliefs as bs.


True. I did that, but my wife, unlike yours, didn't budge... she planned her escape carefully. I do understand her, though. It's disappointing, but I get that she can't be what she used to be, to the point that she agreed to divorce me. That was the ultimate test. It's partially my fault, because I am a very romantic person and I tend to idealise circumstances and situations. To me, she was the most beautiful girl in the world and I counted myself very lucky to have her. It wasn't to be, and it broke my heart, but I've now found peace. All I want is her to be well and safe, even if (when) we split up again.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Dude, she is having an affair, it is that simple. 

Get out of denial and start the detective work. 

So for you it is detective time, and file for divorce, Monday morning. 

And why in the **** does she have her own private credit card??? What kind of marriage is that? And, looking at the statement is snooping? Yeah, that is a great marriage.

You need to figure out who she is screwing. 

Everything she is and had been doing is classic cheater behavior...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> She saw an attorney six weeks ago, your trashy MC is giving you the cold shoulder, she picks fights, had a couple of major deaths, accused you of snooping when SHE left something out for all to see, zero communication about how she feels and you are waiting for the other shoe to drop by giving out peace offerings?
> 
> You should have consulted an attorney six weeks ago. You are way behind.
> 
> ...


:iagree:
@armstrng, you need to consult with one or more divorce lawyers.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

armstrng said:


> ... Now the counselor doesn't seem to be returning my messages, even when all I'm asking is whether we should schedule another session.
> 
> ..


boy that's really bizarre. I've never heard of a counselor doing that; either they're in high demand (because they're good, and will let you know they're overbooked), or if they're not, they're so desperate for business they'll get you in ASAP. This is a red flag...



EleGirl said:


> ...
> 
> Whatever you do, do not move out of your home until there is some kind of settlement about child custody and time sharing.
> 
> ..


I don't know if that's necessarily true for him; depends on the jurisdiction. Where I live, none of that matters, and the property will all be divided 50/50. The court will decide everything, and moving out isn't viewed as a negative; it's not like he's disappearing or abandoning his family. They won't presume that, simply because he left what sounds like a very conflict-ridden situation. 

It could certainly affect who gets the house, and what not, but if the situation is toxic, or if there is a threat of violence or her feigning violence, it makes sense to get out, pronto. 

Regardless... he should consult with his own attorney ASAP in order to formulate a plan. 



armstrng said:


> ...
> 
> * Someone asked about mental health issues - I have considered this possibility. Her two sisters have both been treated for bi polar, her one sister eventually died of an oxy overdose. She occasionally shows signs of delusion/paranoia but it's been rare.
> 
> ...


she sounds more along the borderline personality disorder / high conflict personality spectrum... look those up and see if they fit the bill better. You'll know what to expect from her better if you know. I'm amazed your marriage lasted as long as it did. 

You need to see an attorney, YESTERDAY. 

- Start looking into finding a place to live, get an idea of the cost involved, whether you need security deposit money, etc. Don't leave this til the last minute.

- document everything; keep this at work, where she can never find it. 

- if you can afford it, you may want to talk to a good PI; I agree with the others here that there is a likelihood she may be cheating on you. if you can find objective evidence of this that would be presentable in court, it dramatically changes the dynamic of the divorce proceedings in your favor. 

- set up a secret bank accountt; the bank account should not have more money in it than necessary to get yourself an emergency hotel or couple days lodging if things go south. You are not hiding assets, you are trying to protect yourself, and I don't think any judge would see this as a bad move on your part; you know she's already talked to an attorney and gotten legal advice here.

- maybe get yourself a small storage unit; this can make moving out under duress a lot easier. You have a place you can store personal possessions, clothes, etc. things you might not want to end up with her. Possession is 9/10s of the law...

- GO SEE AN ATTORNEY


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Check your phone bill. Takes 10-15 minutes


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