# So This Is Marriage?



## Dakrum (Feb 19, 2017)

I apologize for deleting the text in my thread. I am trying to delete this post but can not figure out how.


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## dawnabon (Mar 11, 2017)

Pregnancy can be difficult but it's no excuse for emotional abuse. 

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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

No it shouldn't be like this... Yes, at times I will blame it on my hormones but then usually apologize later for it.. But I expect him to do it too.... So both parties need to respect and communicate with each other.. When respect lacks then you take each other for granted. Go out to dinner and talk or even a walk at the park.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

OP, no that is not marriage. Your wife seems to have trust issues without realizing she is the one sowing the seeds of distrust. The whole reason you are here is because you no longer trust her enough to talk to her about it. But you do need to talk to her. If she doesn't "get it" then you need to decide if this is how you want to spend the rest of your life.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

@Uptown

Brother, you need to add some simple statements to your arsenal.

"When you refuse to apologize for treating me poorly, it hurts. This causes me to love you less."

If statements like this elicit an even stronger reaction, which I suspect it may, you problems are deeper than even you suspect.

Take it from a retired Soldier who is married to someone not entirely emotionally stable...very few things are as difficult as balancing a military career with a liability for a spouse.

If she escalates with the aforementioned statement, you will have to change tactics completely.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Part of the problem you are having is that you are allowing her behavior to continue.

My bet is that one of the major reasons for this is that you think that your wife's behavior is just what some are like. I base this on the below statements of yours.



Dakrum said:


> Let the wife be mad and she's happy that's how it is in almost every household it's just common sense.
> 
> Ladies before you go any further since I already feel like I have to walk on egg shells around you all when it comes to these topics,
> 
> But I'll wager the response I get will be to suck it all up right? I have a strong feeling that might happen and this is just what it's like. I know men aren't to be cared for as much as women and children


What you describe is what your wife it like. It’s not want women are like. This is important for you to realize because your belief that this is what women are like has apparently influenced you to put up with being treated poorly and then just griping about it.

You say that you spoke to your wife 3, or so, times about it. That did not work, did it? You have to deal with her bad behavior when it happens, every single time it happens. Farsidejunky gave you some good words to use with her. Use them.

If you have a dog that bites you daily, but you scold it only 3 times in a year for biting you, do you think that the dog will stop biting you? Nope. It will continue to bit you because most of the time it is rewarded for biting you… the reward the dog get from biting you is that it puts fear in you and allows the dog to control you.

While your wife is not physically biting you, she is emotionally biting you. And you have taught her that it’s ok, that you will allow her to emotionally bite you. It gives her a lot of control in your relationship. There is a power struggle going on in your relationship and apparently, your wife feels that she has to fight very hard to keep some power. Perhaps it’s her fear that you mentioned early in your post. Perhaps she really does not trust you and has just manifested her fear this way. Whatever her reason for her behavior, it’s unacceptable.

One thing about what you said is concerning. I wonder why she says that being pregnant hurts. Has she seen a doctor about whatever it is that is hurting her? Could you describe the complaints she has about her pregnancy… give some specifics?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GuyInColorado said:


> You've taught her its OK to treat you like this. You need to stand up for yourself. Next time she does that, kick her out of the house. Yes, it's going to get physical. You may have to record her and call the cops or her mother or whoever.
> 
> This will kill you inside if you let it continue. I've been there. I went the divorce route, I had too much resentment.


Advocating violence is a violation of forum rules.

The only reason I’m leaving this post up for right now is that some people have probably read it and I want to make sure that a strong statement against it is posted.

You have got to be kidding me. Are you really on here telling a man to get physical (physically violent) with his wife, a pregnant wife to boot? 

Dakrum, if you try to kick your wife out of your (her legal) residence you could end up arrested and even charged with domestic violence.

I agree that if she is violent, then record her and call then police. But absolutely do not escalate the situation to violence.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@Dakrum


Was your wife like this before you married her?

Was she like this before she got pregnant?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> @Dakrum
> 
> 
> Was your wife like this before you married her?
> ...


*Either way, her behavior, is in no way, deemed to be excusable! *


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

arbitrator said:


> *Either way, her behavior, is in no way, deemed to be excusable! *


Did I say that her behavior is excusable? No… so this post to me seems a bit odd.

Have more info can only help us help the OP, that’s why I asked.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

No that is not marriage, if it was I would never get married.

She is just being hateful for some reason, maybe marriage counseling would get to the bottom of why she feels it's okay to treat you this way.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Stop apologizing. Boundaries, consequences. Think about it. I agree that your actions are training her. 


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

@*farsidejunky*, thanks for the callout.



Dakrum said:


> So This Is Marriage?


No, Dakrum, this childish, abusive behavior is not called "marriage" but, rather, "BPD behavior." You are describing a parent/child relationship, not a husband/wife relationship. Hopefully, it is only a temporary problem caused by the hormone surge from pregnancy.



> I've seen my wife develop a knack for getting nasty attitudes with me, saying every cruel thing she can think of, yelling at the top of her lungs.


The behaviors you describe -- i.e., frequent verbal abuse, controlling behavior, easily triggered temper tantrums, inability to trust for extended periods, irrational jealousy, lack of impulse control, black-white thinking, and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may be a BPDer (exhibit strong symptoms of BPD that may be below or above the diagnostic threshold).



> I already feel like I have to walk on egg shells....


If you've been living with a BPDer for a year, that is exactly how you should be feeling. This is why the #1 best-selling BPD book is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells_.



> Let the wife be mad and she's happy.


If she is a BPDer, being mad doesn't make her happy but does make her less fearful because it reinforces her false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." This is why BPDers typically like to be a relationship with a partner they can blame for every mistake and misfortune. And this is why the #2 best-selling BPD book is titled _I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!_



> If you're pregnant you're *a victim* that deserves to complain about the pregnancy daily.


Like I said, always "The Victim." It gives BPDers a self identity.



> My wife and I also got pregnant recently.... Blame it on the hormones right?


Perhaps so. How serious the problem is depends not only on how strong her BPD traits are but also on whether they are _persistent_, i.e., constitute a full lifetime problem. 

*Temporary BPD flareups.* Most occurrences of strong BPD traits are only temporary flareups of the BPD traits we all have. These flareups nearly always are caused by drug abuse or, more often, by a hormone change -- e.g., puberty, pregnancy, postpartum, PMS, or perimenopause (or any other life event starting with the letter "P," LOL).

*Persistent BPD traits.* If serious hormone and drug problems can be ruled out, the remaining common cause of strong BPD traits is a stunted emotional development, i.e., something occurring before age five that caused her emotional development to freeze at the level of a young child. This is a far more serious problem because it is results in BPD traits that are permanent unless the BPDer undergoes years of intensive therapy to acquire the emotional skills that the rest of us learned in childhood. 

The BPDer needs to learn, for example, how to do self soothing, how to regulate all of her emotions, how to avoid black-white thinking by tolerating strong mixed feelings, how to trust, how to intellectually challenge intense feelings instead of accepting them as self-evident "facts," and how to stay aware of the present instead of escaping through daydreams into the past and future. Absent those skills, she must continue to rely on the primitive ego defenses used by young children: projection, denial, temper tantrums, magical thinking, and black-white thinking.



> I've been married for almost a year now.


In order to rule out a persistent (lifetime) problem with strong BPD traits, it is important for you to find out what her behavior was like prior to the pregnancy. If your W's strong BPD traits are really persistent, you likely will find evidence in her past history. Persistent traits typically start showing very strongly in the early teens and remain strong thereafter. 

Generally, persistent traits do not disappear for a year or two. There is an exception, however. The traits typically will disappear during courtship -- a period that usually lasts 4 to 6 months but which can last over a year in long distance relationships. During courtship, the BPDer's infatuation is so strong it convinces her that you are the nearly perfect man who has arrived to rescue her from unhappiness. In that way, the infatuation holds her two fears at bay, with the result that you cannot trigger them for several months. This is why you won't see a BPDer's dark side during the courtship period.



> She developed trust issues. Apparently she trusts me now and I don't know when that changed, I was never given a discussion about it.


If she is a BPDer, it is impossible to convince her that you truly love her and will remain loyal to her. A BPDer is filled with so much self loathing that, even when she is convinced that you love her AT THIS VERY MOMENT, she lives in fear that you will abandon her as soon as you realize how empty she is on the inside. Yet, because BPDers are unstable, there will be days when she trusts you and days when she does not. And, as I noted above, a BPDer will trust you during the infatuation period. A persistent BPDer nonetheless is incapable of trusting you for an extended period.



> My wife had depression when we first got together...


A recent study found that 80% of female lifetime BPDers also have a co-occurring mood disorder like depression or bipolar -- and 36% of them suffer from MDD (Major Depressive Disorder).



> The woman can be wonderful.


A BPDer's problem is not being BAD but, rather, UNSTABLE. This is why they make rapid flips between wonderful (adoring you) and horrid (devaluing or even hating you). The vast majority of BPDers are so high functioning that they usually do not show that dark side to business associates, casual friends, clients, or total strangers. They get along fine with those folks. 

None of those people will trigger the BPDer's two fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close relationship that can be abandoned and there is no intimacy to cause the suffocating feeling of engulfment. Once a friend makes the mistake of drawing close, however, he will start triggering both of her fears. This is why BPDers typically have no close long-term friends unless they live a long distance away.

Because persistent BPDers typically have the emotional development of a four year old, they exhibit a purity of expressions and vulnerability that makes them very easy to fall in love with. Indeed, two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both had full-blown persistent BPD if their biographers are correct.



> I just woke up and have had a running migraine for over 24 hours.


If you really have been living with a BPDer for a year, consider yourself lucky that you only have a migraine. Of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the _one most notorious _for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. And this is largely why therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning. 



> Because of that I remember myself apologizing almost every other night about something that I had no idea was even...bad.


Like I said, you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning.



> My parents raised me to be understanding of everyone around me.


If you want to improve your understanding of her behavior, I suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your young child will be dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about BPD warning signs to see if they seem to apply.

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at low levels if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as verbal abuse, irrational jealousy, and temper tantrums.

An easy place to start reading is my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_. If most of them sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join *Farside* and the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Dakrum.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Did I say that her behavior is excusable? No… so this post to me seems a bit odd.
> 
> Have more info can only help us help the OP, that’s why I asked.


*Never intoned that it was, Ele! Was just making a point!*


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## Dakrum (Feb 19, 2017)

Thank you all so very much for your contribution and taking the time to give your honest thoughts on the matter. I will take each and every one of your responses and form a new method of dealing with my situation. To the questions I left unanswered from certain users, I will get back to you in a pm if possible.

Uptown, my special thanks to you for bringing up something I had never heard of and will definitely research the topic with the resources you provided.


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## Dakrum (Feb 19, 2017)

Can I get this thread deleted please.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Please read the forum rules. We do not delete threads/posts at user request.


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