# Why is pornography such a devisive issue on TAM?



## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

I've noticed that whenever the topic of pornography comes up, it seems to bring out the gender wars hard core. To be fair, there are people of both genders on either side of the debate, both pro and against. I'm not trying to open another debate on whether it's right or wrong; I'm trying to understand why discussions about it devolve so quickly around here. It's been my experience that people (both men and women) who say they are against it for moral reasons tend to get attacked, usually by men.

Women who are against it (outside of moral or religious reasons) tend to feel that it disrespects and degrades women and creates unrealistic expectations. I think it can be triggering for those who have been in a relationship with an addicted man or neglected by their partners in favor of pornography. Perhaps they're concerned about how readily available it is to children. In some ways, I can see parallels to Prohibition. Perhaps they feel belittled or minimized regarding their concerns.

Why do some men seem to react defensively? Do they feel that women are trying to control them by criticizing pornography or taking a stance against it? Do they feel misunderstood or personally attacked? Do they feel it's emasculating to expect them not to use it, that they are assumed to be sex obsessed if they do? (I get the sense that they feel it is suspected to be the main problem in a relationship, perhaps to the exclusion of other issues on the woman's part--that it is used as a scapegoat. I could be wrong.)

I am sincerely asking in an attempt to understand. I welcome both genders to weigh in, if they can keep things civil.

(Edited for clarity.)


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## umbluu (Jan 24, 2020)

If you are referring to the most recent porn-related thread-jack, then my take is that some people reacted not to the statement that porn is problematic, but to thread-jack starter taking it couple steps further, implying that all women must naturally have the same likes and dislikes as she(?) does, and if they appear to have different likes and dislikes, they must have been brainwashed by porn, or coerced by partners who are brainwashed by porn, or something equally negative and porn-related. In effect the thread-jack starter negated actual life experiences of other participants, by making broad generalizations. 
I guess the above still does not explain why some people chose to react to someone being wrong on the internet while others just ignored it..


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I feel like the men who like p*** just don't intend to give it up under any circumstances whether it's deemed destructive or unethical or what because that's where their priority is. They are not as directly adversely affected by it although it does destroy a lot of marriages. More women are directly affected by it and it's a negative trend that involves a lot of disrespect and marriage destruction and sexual abuse. Wittingly or unwittingly it's perpetuating a cycle that isn't good for women.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Wittingly or unwittingly it's perpetuating a cycle that isn't good for women.


It's not good for women or children or society.

Men (in general) will defend pornography just like they've defended prostitution and adultery in the past.

In my opinion, the _only_ reason that adultery is such a hot topic now, is because women are now just as promiscuous as men.

Since the beginning of time, men (in general) have done exactly what they've wanted to do sexually, and women just put up with it and stayed married and stayed silent. And this is recent - up until my parent's generation.

Now that the majority of women are doing it too (whatever they want sexually), _now_ it's seen as a problem.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Women don’t like men looking at porn because the women in porn aren’t 50 years old and 40 pounds overweight.


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## ShatteredKat (Mar 23, 2016)

My "problem" is what IS pornography? Is Playboy (old version) pornographic? (Naked centerfold/articles?)
Are pictures of naked bodies (either gender!!!) "Pornographic?"
Are pictures of women baring their boobs Pornographic? (Been to some beaches in Europe? and watched any Japanese TV commercials?)
OR? - is "pornographic" having to show PIV or PIA or PIM?
Are you a "pornographer' if you do such things in your bedroom (without a WEBCam of course?)
To me the word "pornographic is tossed out a bit to much . . .

Aside: I'm fundamentally "Catholic" - but the church is a bit behind the changes in society


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

@LATERILUS79, I’ve reported you.

If you have something you want to add to the conversation, please do. Otherwise, leave me alone.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

minimalME said:


> It's not good for women or children or society.
> 
> Men (in general) will defend pornography just like they've defended prostitution and adultery in the past.
> 
> ...


Thank you. You’re right about adultery. We see it when they defend lap dances and prostitutes, it’s starts out as harmless “fun” and then becomes the woman’s fault for aging or gaining weight or not giving him enough of the right kind of sex. It’s always the case on this forum that a woman cheating is immediate divorce but women are supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt. And when a man came on whose wife was watching porn it was considered to be MUCH worse than a man doing it, and they complained she was comparing her husband to male porn stars but insist that women who say men do that are wrong. And then of course when it’s time to hurl insults we learn that’s not the case.

And when you point that out, it’s man-hating. Cruel and incorrect generalizations about women, however, are just fine. As are direct insults to specific posters, which happens over and over.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

RebuildingMe said:


> Women don’t like men looking at porn because the women in porn aren’t 50 years old and 40 pounds overweight.


It works both ways... The men of porn have come a long way since that ugtard, Ron Jeremy. The men in porn are fit, well-hung, groomed and don't need a double bagger.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> It works both ways... The men of porn have come a long way since that ugtard, Ron Jeremy. The men in porn are fit, well-hung, groomed and don't need a double bagger.


 I have to make a stop at the urban dictionary real quick. Double. Bagger. 🤔🤔🤔


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> I have to make a stop at the urban dictionary real quick. Double. Bagger. 🤔🤔🤔


Let me know, I’m scared to google it. 😂


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Thank you.


You’re welcome! 🤗 



> As are direct insults to specific posters, which happens over and over.


I don’t mind disagreements, especially when people have something intelligent to share, but there seem to be a lot of angry folks who just want a punching bag.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> It works both ways... The men of porn have come a long way since that ugtard, Ron Jeremy. The men in porn are fit, well-hung, groomed and don't need a double bagger.


HAHAHAHA!

“a person so ugly that in order to have sex with them you have to put two bags over their head incase the first one rips.”


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

minimalME said:


> I don’t mind disagreements, especially when people have something intelligent to share, but there seem to be a lot of angry folks who just want a punching bag.


I realize it says more about them than it does about their target, but it contributes to a very unpleasant environment and adds nothing to the conversation. I get that people are hurting and angry but no grace is given to women for that same issue. The bullying is getting out of hand.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I realize it says more about them than it does about their target, but it contributes to a very unpleasant environment and adds nothing to the conversation. I get that people are hurting and angry but no grace is given to women for that same issue. The bullying is getting out of hand.


I agree. 😔


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Twodecades said:


> I've noticed that whenever the topic of pornography comes up, it seems to bring out the gender wars hard core. To be fair, there are people of both genders on either side of the debate, both pro and against. I'm not trying to open another debate on whether it's right or wrong; I'm trying to understand why discussions about it devolve so quickly around here. It's been my experience that people (both men and women) who say they are against it for moral reasons tend to get attacked, usually by men.
> 
> Women who are against it (outside of moral or religious reasons) tend to feel that it disrespects and degrades women and creates unrealistic expectations. I think it can be triggering for those who have been in a relationship with an addicted man or neglected by their partners in favor of pornography. Perhaps they're concerned about how readily available it is to children. In some ways, I can see parallels to Prohibition. Perhaps they feel belittled or minimized regarding their concerns.
> 
> ...


It was rude of me to address another poster first, please accept my apologies.

As a female porn user who started using very early on, I'm not against porn now for moral or religious reasons. However, it certainly helped me not to settle for men I didn't find particularly attractive just because I wanted a little sausage. 

Anyway, I'm quite indifferent to it now and can't remember the last time I looked because it's not needed anymore. Some men seem to use it for similar reasons. Honestly, I did find it desensitized me to more hardcore situations and I chose not to use it anymore. So overall, I don't think it's good for people who value and want an intimate relationship with others.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> just because I wanted a little sausage.


This is hilarious. 😂 🥰


TXTrini said:


> I did find it desensitized me to more hardcore situations


It does do that, especially with regard to the treatment of women. The men aren't exactly kind in porn. 

However, like most things, moderation is key, and while it really doesn't serve any good purpose, it's not automatically, always harmful. It's easy to spot men who have been damaged by it, because they have such specific ideas about how women are supposed to look, act and perform sex acts for them and have very little interest in making a woman feel loved or special. They expect to touch her the rough way they do in porn and have her react the way porn stars do. I believe the term "hate ****" was presented as something that alphas do to subdue their woman (I won't say "wife" because no decent man would want to do that to his wife). These are ideas from porn, not real life, and it's part of the reason so many angry, frustrated men are on here attacking women. And it’s the farthest thing from real alpha behavior.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Twodecades said:


> .......Women who are against it (outside of moral or religious reasons) *tend to feel that it disrespects and degrades women and creates unrealistic expectations.* I think it can be triggering for those who have been in a relationship with an addicted man or neglected by their partners in favor of pornography. Perhaps they're concerned about how r*eadily available it is to children*. In some ways, I can see parallels to Prohibition. Perhaps they feel belittled or minimized regarding their concerns.
> 
> Why do some men seem to react defensively? Do they feel that women are trying to control them by criticizing pornography or taking a stance against it? Do they feel misunderstood or personally attacked? Do they feel it's emasculating to expect them not to use it, that they are assumed to be sex obsessed if they do? (I get the sense that they feel it is suspected to be the main problem in a relationship, perhaps to the exclusion of other issues on the woman's part--that it is used as a scapegoat. I could be wrong.)
> 
> ...


Some of the oldest "art" in the world is sexual in nature (Upper Palaeolithic statuette portraying a woman, usually carved in the round. Most have been unearthed in Europe, but others have been found as far away as Siberia, and distributed across much of Eurasia) Go to Pompei. The temples in Khajuraho, India are adorned with carvings depicting people having sex. 

In the USA there have been several Supreme Court Cases trying to separate art from pornography.

Pornography can mean just about anything, from art to vulgar depravity.

My take on why porn gets such a response is because some of it encourages violence and degradation against women. Some adolescents assume that it represents "loving sex." Some of it can be addictive to some at the expense of a healthy male/female relationship. Some people are sex-trafficked into performing in porn.

So there are both good reasons to object to some "pornography." There are also some who would want to hang a fig leaf over famous sculptures, because they view the naked body as obscene. 

Where I see the extremes come out is where people view view all "porn" as horrible. When my wife and I were rebuilding our sex starved marriage, our sex therapist loaned us Sinclair Institute, Better Sex Videos to watch and talk about. I would say that many would view those videos as pornographic, but there were part of couples therapy.

Violence against women, degradation of women, sex-trafficking, porn where the actors are or look like they are under-age, are all things that most would agree are not appropriate. However, the others stuff may have socially redeeming values and/or be art.

As the say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, ans so is pornography.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> This is hilarious. 😂 🥰
> 
> It does do that, especially with regard to the treatment of women. The men aren't exactly kind in porn.
> 
> However, like most things, moderation is key, and while it really doesn't serve any good purpose, it's not automatically, always harmful. It's easy to spot men who have been damaged by it, because they have such specific ideas about how women are supposed to look, act and perform sex acts for them and have very little interest in making a woman feel loved or special. They expect to touch her the rough way they do in porn and have her react the way porn stars do. I believe the term "hate ****" was presented as something that alphas do to subdue their woman (I won't say "wife" because no decent man would want to do that to his wife). These are ideas from porn, not real life, and it's part of the reason so many angry, frustrated men are on here attacking women. And it’s the farthest thing from real alpha behavior.


The way I see it is that the proliferation of platforms like OnlyFans is becoming so incredibly popular due to the majority of porn users not actually liking that terrible stuff you mentioned above. Amateur porn is probably so popular for the same reason. Unfortunately there will always be those that like the dark side.

As for the original thread question I believe it boils down to a fairly simple common denominator. People’s lives have been both destroyed by porn or not really affected at all. Thus it is difficult for each side to see the others very strong view.

As for myself I don’t really care one way or the other. I hope the girls are making loads of money because they are making certain sacrifices.

Anything industry wide that could be classified as harm to women should be capital punishment.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

I think it is divisive because different people relate to it differently. Honestly, there are a lot of other as divisive things: politics, money, etc. It is also a rather invisible fine line when porn can be accepted by some in some condition and when it clearly becomes a problem.

My personal opinion that porn in moderate consumption can be part of an adult entertainment that both partners can enjoy. some women has insecurity comparing themselves to porn stars and foolishly thing that their husbands watching porn create some sort of "competition" for them. Honestly, you good liking neighbor or a husband's coworker who is in real life is more of a competition then a porn star who is fake and not real. Some men expect or want their wives to do what they see in porn. Obviously porn is different but I think though from a position of a men if I were a wife why not to try what your husband saw in porn and finds hot if it is within a acceptable boundary? 

Regarding porn is violent, all women are coerced to perform, etc. this is BS. Porn is different. There is homemade porn when two consenting adults actually want and enjoy film themselves. I watched few porn stars interviews when they honestly say they do enjoy their occupation. I would tell this women. Do you like fashion? Do you know how abused fashion models are? Porn abuse is nothing compared to them


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

This is such a complex subject. In porn there is exploitation, yes, but - these days - it's also a way for many women - and men - to make a living. Yes, they are selling their bodies. Is this moral? I'm not sure it's my place to make a moral judgement. Do I use it? Yes, but only the amateur stuff and no nasties. Of course I will never know if people are being exploited or not, but where do we draw the line? Also, we all know that a ban would just send the whole thing underground. I understand why some people are against it and I don't have a problem with it. I respect their opinion.

That said, in the context of "permission to use", if it doesn't affect the marriage and you are not so stupid to get addicted to it, then I don't see the problem.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Porn is ever changing. It used to be somewhat exploitative against women, back in the Linda Lovelace days. That seemed to end as I got older and porn became a decent way for attractive women to make a little cash, and for men to have some kind of sexual outlet that did not rely on actually getting laid. Things are changing now though. The free, streaming porn is starting to dry up and every girl and her sister is now on OnlyFans where they can cut out the middle-man and sell their product directly to the consumer. This has caused the dynamic to shift. Porn is no longer about some guys having another sexual outlet, it's more about exploiting sad, desperate men and relieving them of their paychecks. Some ladies are making really serious money on OnlyFans, and the ones not making crazy money are at least getting a nice supplemental income. I wouldn't have a problem with that if it weren't so widespread that it's starting to cause serious harm to our society. And things are just getting started.


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## DamianDamian (Aug 14, 2019)

It's not cheating - it doesn't involve anyone else. It's never affected my sexual desire or performance with my wife. If a sex scene comes on tv do you make your husband leave the room? Pick your battles ladies, this one isn't worth fighting over and he's just going to lose a lot of respect for you and realize he cannot be honest with you. 
I would never date a woman that had a problem with porn, I find it to be an incredibly ridiculous stand.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> I've noticed that whenever the topic of pornography comes up, it seems to bring out the gender wars hard core.


Lit another one off with this thread.


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## StillGettingWiser (6 mo ago)

As a guy who's marriage was on the rocks from it at one point I understand why it can be a touchy subject.

My issue was the opposite of what many would guess. My wife became distant and in the bedroom seemed mentally checked out, and I could not put my finger on the root cause. Was she sexting someone? Was there someone else? None of the signs seemed to line up to that being the case.

It was by complete accident I found out she was using porn regularly whenever the opportunity arose. When situations prevented this from happening she became moody and agitated. In the bedroom she went from wanting 2-3 O's to "if I get one it is ok, if it doesn't happen it doesnt happen". Her O's were flat, as if there was no sexual energy to release. It felt as if I was the only person in the room, and if I tried to change positions or changed my rhythm it was "what the hell are you doing" as it would break whatever fantasy/video she was locked in on mentally.

We're far removed from that now, but I can say porn can be a marriage destroyer when either party gets consumed by it.

The porn thing is seen as a problem with men, but when I see dead bedroom issues or "my wife is LD", I often wonder if porn could be the issue. Men aren't usually going to admit to porn if there could be any issue with it...so you can bet everything you've got a woman is definitely not going to mention a peep about using porn if there are bedroom issues.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I loathe it.


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## elliblue (7 mo ago)

RebuildingMe said:


> Women don’t like men looking at porn because the women in porn aren’t 50 years old and 40 pounds overweight.


I had a boyfriend who prefered porn over me, because I was not 50 years and overweight!
Seriously, that was his sexual preference.

Your comment is so plain stupid. Are all women 50 years and overweight?
Do you have mother issues that you see your mother in all real women???

Are all women over 50 overweight?
Aren't their over 50s overweighted women in pornography???
Do all men watch the same videos???

What you are saying is so damn off and you believe you're clever and funny.

Men who put pornography over women don't do it, because their partner is unattractive. Attractive women face the same problem as unattractive women.
And attractivness is in the eye of the beholder. It doesn't matter how attractive you look or not. There are milions of other women out there who look the same or in the eye of your partner better.

The problem with pornography isn't about how a women look. It is the psychological effect it has on men. 
Sexual preference isn't genetically predestinated. It is something we acquire while we grow up. This means, humans mainly men can be manipulated to like certain things or not.

Pornindustry knows that and is using this psychological phenomenom. Everyone who is a little bit bright knows and understands it.

You can look it up and read about it. Anyone who understands the world we are living, understands that we are constantly manipulated by people who knows how to make money.

Pornindustry wants men to prefer movies over real sex. They make money from it and if they decide what men want, they are king.

This leads to the second problem: human trafficking. I don't watch porn, because it is racist, you never know if the actresses are still alife or have been killed after a shoot. If they are on drugs (which they are always!) and if the makers of those movies are also involved in making illigel movies.

Murder of actresses: there are thousands of women who get kidnapped, druged and made to perform in movies and afterwards get killed.
Now imagine people watching a movie and watch the body of a women, that is already dead, because she got tortured and killed by human trafficker. This happens everyday out there and people are contributing to it by watching porn!

Anyone feeling comfortable thinking about this is sick as the world is.

No, pornography isn't harmless. We don't live in a fairy tail world. 
Pornography just discloses how stupid humanity is and that it needs to be protected from its own stupidity.


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## elliblue (7 mo ago)

I also want to mention, now there are all those celebreties and people in western world who cut off their hair and peotrst for the rights of iranien women.
Then they go back start and dress up like porn stars and contribute to the oversexualisation of our society.
Why are they not fighting against human trafficing and exploitation of voulnerable women in the sex industry.
There are two worlds colliding. But both are doing the same, they are overing a platfoem thatvenables men to abuse women and both worlds cobtrol and abuse women for the sake of mens sexuality.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

RebuildingMe said:


> Women don’t like men looking at porn because the women in porn aren’t 50 years old and 40 pounds overweight.


I'll do a little reality check on this one.

I have a friend who was very into porn while married to a real hotty.

She was tall, blonde, blue eyed, fit, hot-blooded and adventurous. She was also objectively beautiful of face.

She had no shortage of male attention but my friend watched a lot of porn with women that didn't look as good as his wife.

Porn is just easy gratification. He didn't have to work to please a real woman.


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## elliblue (7 mo ago)

There is a documentry called 'Generation Porn'. In this documentry young couples who tend to warch porn together are interviewed.

In the ibterview of one couple they asked both what they are thinking while qatching porn and having sex. The boy then explained and he said that he was thinking about having sex with the actress of the film. You can see in that very second how the heart of his girlfriend broke.
She didn't know that he was imagining f*** someone else after watching porn. 

She was a decent looking woman like most men would watch in a porn. Nevertheless her boyfriend was so demaged he could just get off thinking about other women while penetrating her. 

And this is a good example, why women are the losers of the pornindustry.
There are also other exapmles that show how pornography shapes what men think sex actually is. Including guys who grew up with internet porn admitting that when they were younger and unexperienced they thought anal sex is real sex and npt knowing that the anus isn't a women vagina. But even after realising being left pefereing the anus over the vagina of women as this is howbthey learned about sex. 

I think this is the series:








Generation Porn (TV Series 2019) - IMDb


Generation Porn: With Sam Spruell, Gia Derza, Gianna Dior, Kendra Spade. A series exploring the explosion and effects of internet pornography across the world through those who watch, produce and star in adult movies.




m.imdb.com


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

minimalME said:


> It's not good for women or children or society.
> 
> Men (in general) will defend pornography just like they've defended prostitution and adultery in the past.
> 
> ...


While I agree with your first sentence, women have been cheating throughout history a plenty.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> The way I see it is that the proliferation of platforms like OnlyFans is becoming so incredibly popular due to the majority of porn users not actually liking that terrible stuff you mentioned above. Amateur porn is probably so popular for the same reason. Unfortunately there will always be those that like the dark side.
> 
> As for the original thread question I believe it boils down to a fairly simple common denominator. People’s lives have been both destroyed by porn or not really affected at all. Thus it is difficult for each side to see the others very strong view.
> 
> ...


Your point about amateur porn is very valid. When I watch, I usually choose amateur for that reason.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

umbluu said:


> If you are referring to the most recent porn-related thread-jack, then my take is that some people reacted not to the statement that porn is problematic, but to thread-jack starter taking it couple steps further, implying that all women must naturally have the same likes and dislikes as she(?) does, and if they appear to have different likes and dislikes, they must have been brainwashed by porn, or coerced by partners who are brainwashed by porn, or something equally negative and porn-related. In effect the thread-jack starter negated actual life experiences of other participants, by making broad generalizations.
> I guess the above still does not explain why some people chose to react to someone being wrong on the internet while others just ignored it..


Well, that thread did have me thinking about it, but I have noticed the theme over the past year and a half I have been here. Your last comment is a good one, and that is what I was trying to understand. It appears that they feel pornography is unfairly blamed for relationship problems or that they themselves are judged for using it.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> While I agree with your first sentence, women have been cheating throughout history a plenty.


Absolutely! But it's rarely been socially acceptable for women. 

Quietly, behind the scenes, under the table, it's _always_ been acceptable for men.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> I'm trying to understand why discussions about it devolve so quickly around here. It's been my experience that people (both men and women) who say they are against it for moral reasons tend to get attacked, usually by men.


It is a "hot button" issue. Like nearly every subject of discussion these days. Wife and I are opposed to porn, strip clubs, prostitution, soft drugs, hard drugs, booze, BNO, GNO, and a host of other things. We have our reasons, mostly our own moral standards, religious beliefs. We usually don't bother to dialogue with others (unless we know they are in our camp on the subject ) about any of these because it is pointless. And because we will be attacked for being narrow-minded or worse. Like religion and politics, adults have their own opinions which will never be changed. All discussion achieves is ill will, recriminations and namecalling. 

Porn, drugs, etc have been a thing forever and will continue to be as long as there are willing consumers. We are fine with leaving others alone so long as they leave us alone. Just don't try to indoctrinate our kids or grandkids.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I feel like the men who like p*** just don't intend to give it up under any circumstances whether it's deemed destructive or unethical or what because that's where their priority is. They are not as directly adversely affected by it


So is the core issue there control or addiction? There are men in the anti-porn movement, though. 



minimalME said:


> Men (in general) will defend pornography just like they've defended prostitution and adultery in the past.
> 
> In my opinion, the _only_ reason that adultery is such a hot top now, is because women are now just as promiscuous as men.


This is a fascinating point. The relationships between gender norms don't happen in a vacuum.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

RebuildingMe said:


> Women don’t like men looking at porn because the women in porn aren’t 50 years old and 40 pounds overweight.


Well, I'm not 50 or a pound overweight, and neither my husband nor I look at porn by choice. 

What I'd like to know is what is at the core of your reaction. Do you feel like women let themselves go when in a relationship but expect their partner to simply put up with it and not complain?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

i think sometimes words like “controlling” or “insecure” are tossed out so the particular behavior being criticized doesn’t have to be defended. Just like “pick your battles,” all of those phrases are often used to mean “shut up.” 

Porn is like everything else. Some people can handle themselves and some people can’t. If you want to know which is which, notice who gets angry when you criticize it. 🤷‍♀️


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> It is a "hot button" issue. Like nearly every subject of discussion these days. Wife and I are opposed to porn, strip clubs, prostitution, soft drugs, hard drugs, booze, BNO, GNO, and a host of other things. We have our reasons, mostly our own moral standards, religious beliefs. We usually don't bother to dialogue with others (unless we know they are in our camp on the subject ) about any of these because it is pointless. And because we will be attacked for being narrow-minded or worse. Like religion and politics, adults have their own opinions which will never be changed. All discussion achieves is ill will, recriminations and namecalling.
> 
> Porn, drugs, etc have been a thing forever and will continue to be as long as there are willing consumers. We are fine with leaving others alone so long as they leave us alone. Just don't try to indoctrinate our kids or grandkids.


We are of like mind about a lot of this. I am trying to figure out, though, where there is common ground from which people can have a civil dialog about something they disagree. It seems like facts get lost in meta conversation.

Having a civil dialog seems to be harder and harder to do these days.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I think it is divisive because different people relate to it differently. Honestly, there are a lot of other as divisive things: politics, money, etc.


I suppose I never equated pornography as on the same level of divisiveness as politics, money, or religion. Those boil down to power.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> Having a civil dialog seems to be harder and harder to do these days.


Just roll over to the political forum and read the carnage. I have to put some posters on ignore so don't have to start taking BP meds again. It is the world we live in. Goodwill has nearly disappeared.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

RebuildingMe said:


> Women don’t like men looking at porn because the women in porn aren’t 50 years old and 40 pounds overweight.


If a man is with a woman 50 years old and 40 pounds overweight, _maybe that's the best he can get_ and that's why he's stuck jerking off to porn instead of having sex with hot young things IN REAL LIFE.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

TXTrini said:


> It works both ways... The men of porn have come a long way since that ugtard, Ron Jeremy. The men in porn are fit, well-hung, groomed and don't need a double bagger.


Agreed. 100%. That’s why it’s all a fantasy. I don’t compare myself to those guys. Porn isn’t real. It’s just meant to turn people on. Do these same women compare themselves Hollywood actresses? They shouldn’t.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

elliblue said:


> Your comment is so plain stupid.


You make some good points, but please keep it civil.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Twodecades said:


> We are of like mind about a lot of this. I am trying to figure out, though, where there is common ground from which people can have a civil dialog about something they disagree. It seems like facts get lost in meta conversation.
> 
> Having a civil dialog seems to be harder and harder to do these days.


I've noticed calling something abhorrent, because it is, sparks a lot of outrage from those committed to enjoying whatever abhorrent subject is being discussed.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


RebuildingMe said:



Women don’t like men looking at porn because the women in porn aren’t 50 years old and 40 pounds overweight.

Click to expand...

*I take it you've never seen "mature" or "granny" porn?


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Thank you for your civil reply. We might be in different camps on this issue, but I greatly appreciate that you can state your position articulately without attacking anyone. 



In Absentia said:


> Also, we all know that a ban would just send the whole thing underground.


This is a very interesting point.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

elliblue said:


> Your comment is so plain stupid. Are all women 50 years and overweight?


No. Just one. He is only talking about one person in his post.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Livvie said:


> If a man is with a woman 50 years old and 40 pounds overweight, _maybe that's the best he can get_ and that's why he's stuck jerking off to porn instead of having sex with hot young things IN REAL LIFE.


Maybe if a man is married to a woman who is 50 years old and 40 pounds overweight he should divorce her.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Livvie said:


> If a man is with a woman 50 years old and 40 pounds overweight, _maybe that's the best he can get_ and that's why he's stuck jerking off to porn instead of having sex with hot young things IN REAL LIFE.


I agree that no man should be turning his wife or gf down for porn. Porn should be used by couples and individually when the other person is unavailable or unwilling. It has to be used responsibility, just like social media. My point was, the average wife or husband does not look like or do half of the things depicted in porn. So don’t compare yourselves to it. It’s not real.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> It was rude of me to address another poster first, please accept my apologies.
> 
> As a female porn user who started using very early on, I'm not against porn now for moral or religious reasons. However, it certainly helped me not to settle for men I didn't find particularly attractive just because I wanted a little sausage.
> 
> Anyway, I'm quite indifferent to it now and can't remember the last time I looked because it's not needed anymore. Some men seem to use it for similar reasons. Honestly, I did find it desensitized me to more hardcore situations and I chose not to use it anymore. So overall, I don't think it's good for people who value and want an intimate relationship with others.


No need for an apology! ☺

You bring up a good point. We tend to assume that a consumer of porn is male. There are plenty of female consumers. I suspect they are less vocal about it.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Why do you think there are some many threads started about guys having fantasies about their wives being with another man while they watch? It’s all porn driven. These men are trying to take what’s fake back into their real life marriages. That’s abuse. Porn has its uses, but use responsibly.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> Some of the oldest "art" in the world is sexual in nature (Upper Palaeolithic statuette portraying a woman, usually carved in the round. Most have been unearthed in Europe, but others have been found as far away as Siberia, and distributed across much of Eurasia) Go to Pompei. The temples in Khajuraho, India are adorned with carvings depicting people having sex.
> 
> In the USA there have been several Supreme Court Cases trying to separate art from pornography.
> 
> ...


Interesting. The line between art and pornography (or obscenity)...that could be a completely new thread in and of itself. I think most people are past the putting a fig leaf on all of the statues. At this point, we're talking things like excrement art and Gaspar Noe films.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Maybe if a man is married to a woman who is 50 years old and 40 pounds overweight he should divorce her.


Really? So no woman 50 years old and overweight is relationship material and their husbands should allllll divorce them?

What if said husband is also 50 years old (or older) and 40 pounds overweight himself, and bald!! Does he deserve someone hot and young just because he's a man? 🤣

I see a lot of old, overweight men out there and they are usually with women of the same attractiveness level. 

But let's boot the woman because she's not young and slim? Crazy.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Really? So no woman 50 years old and overweight is relationship material and their husbands should allllll divorce them?
> 
> What if said husband is also 50 years old (or older) and 40 pounds overweight himself, and bald!! Does he deserve someone hot and young just because he's a man? 🤣
> 
> ...


I should have added an eyeroll emoji so you would know I was being sarcastic. And FWIW, the sarcasm wasn't directed at you. I apologize, my intent wasn't clear because I need to be better about realizing that I can't convey tone over the internet.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

minimalME said:


> @LATERILUS79, I’ve reported you.
> 
> If you have something you want to add to the conversation, please do. Otherwise, leave me alone.


For what? Using an emoji on your comment?

The emojis that are provided to us by TAM to use?

I laughed at your statement that adultery is now a hot topic because women now are just as promiscuous as men.

interesting. Women committing adultery just now.

really? So men used to have sex with other men when they committed adultery? Is that it? I dont buy it.

either men were only committing adultery with single women all this time or maybe, just maybe, women commit adultery at the same rate that men do.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Lit another one off with this thread.


Yep. But who knows, maybe we'll make some progress. (I'm an idealist. 🤣)


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> While I agree with your first sentence, women have been cheating throughout history a plenty.


I agree...it's mentioned in the Bible, which whether or not you see as truth has been around for a long time. Even Chaucer's _Miller's Tale_ mentions cuckoldry. I suspect there was also a good bit of cheating in British royal families and aristocracy.

I would argue that women cheating was not as widespread throughout history as the reverse, simply because the stakes were too high for women--pregnancy as well as a loss of financial support if they were discovered. Women have generally been more protective of the nest/home for the sake of their children. Not all, but the tendency for a woman to walk away was much lower throughout history. I think that has changed somewhat.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

Porn has destroyed a lot of marriages. Just like adultery. Hence the disdain from most on here.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

StillGettingWiser said:


> As a guy who's marriage was on the rocks from it at one point I understand why it can be a touchy subject.
> 
> My issue was the opposite of what many would guess. My wife became distant and in the bedroom seemed mentally checked out, and I could not put my finger on the root cause. Was she sexting someone? Was there someone else? None of the signs seemed to line up to that being the case.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to hear you had to deal with this. Women can absolutely be addicted to pornography. People just don't talk about that. Most people assume women who are against it simply don't like it or struggle not to use it, which is not true.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Twodecades said:


> I agree...it's mentioned in the Bible, which whether or not you see as truth has been around for a long time. Even Chaucer's _Miller's Tale_ mentions cuckoldry. I susepct there was also a good bit of cheating in British royal families and aristocracy.
> 
> I would argue that it was not as widespread as male cheating and probably never has been, simply because the stakes were too high for women--pregnancy as well as a loss of financial support if they were discovered. Women have generally been more protective of the best/home for the sake of their children. Not all, but the tendency to walk away for a woman was much lower throughout history.


Women have historically probably cheated at around the same level depending on environment.

You are correct about the social double standards making it less punishing for men who were caught but women have always had to be a little more cunning and thoughtful than men historically as well.

Women cheaters have been far less likely to leave the family than men however and that is something that has changed.

Sorry for the TJ.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I take it you've never seen "mature" or "granny" porn?


Hey hey hey !!!!!! My “old lady ” is still pretty hot 😜


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> For what? Using an emoji on your comment?
> 
> The emojis that are provided to us by TAM to use?
> 
> ...


I got the sense that throughout history, most married men cheated with prostitutes or had mistresses that were single women. They usually had to have money to do this; they'd set her up financially and she was "on call," basically. Or, as in the case of my great-great grandfather, he was a wealthy man who had a child by his housekeeper (Arnold Schwarzenegger- style, except he didn't care for his offspring but put her and her mother out on the street). I doubt there were as many married women cheating as married men. Certainly not zero, but I suspect it was not equivalent.

I remember my father telling me when I was younger that there was a "kind of woman you marry and a kind you don't." He was an atheist, so his advice was not coming from a religious place. His point was that men liked to have sex with multiple women, but they didn't want to marry one who had been one of those "multiple women." I think that was typical of his generation and those before it.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> Women have historically probably cheated at around the same level depending on environment.


I'm not sure about this. Meaning, I'm not arguing; I'm truly not sure. Perhaps this varied by culture. From what I can tell, in Rome it could be fairly common to have open relationships and even orgies. I can concede with certainty that female infidelity is not a new concept. Single women having the same attitudes and amount of sex as men does seem to be a modern American cultural shift. 

And I don't mind a relevant thread jack! 😉


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> Why do some men seem to react defensively? Do they feel that women are trying to control them by criticizing pornography or taking a stance against it? Do they feel misunderstood or personally attacked? Do they feel it's emasculating to expect them not to use it, that they are assumed to be sex obsessed if they do? (I get the sense that they feel it is suspected to be the main problem in a relationship, perhaps to the exclusion of other issues on the woman's part--that it is used as a scapegoat. I could be wrong.)
> 
> I am sincerely asking in an attempt to understand. I welcome both genders to weigh in, if they can keep things civil.
> 
> (Edited for clarity.)


We've had this discussion before about a year ago. Porn is a tool. Nothing more. It can be abused just like alcohol and drugs. It can be addictive. When someone becomes addicted, then I see it as a problem. For me personally, it isn't addictive. 

Yes, many men are going to react defensively. I don't believe they think women are trying to control them by criticizing it. I don't get that impression. I do think they feel misunderstood or attacked. For the men that are NOT addicted and are stuck in dead bedroom marriages, porn is an outlet. It is a tool. My heart breaks for the women here on TAM that are stuck in dead bedrooms themselves while having husbands using porn. That is terrible. Having a real woman in my arms will always be preferred over looking at something online. 

I think most of the defensive nature comes from feeling like one is being labeled as a "bad person". No one wants to be a bad person - but the people here that are fervently against porn will usually make their comments that imply that anyone that looks at porn is "bad". Well, that is the quickest way to make someone become defensive. I personally do not care if someone wants to use porn or if someone is strongly against it. I don't care if someone thinks I'm bad because I will use it. I know anyone that would label me as such is incorrect. I think some people here that get overly defensive have not taken the time to figure out why they become so defensive and the argument gets out of hand. I personally believe it is because they think they are being labeled as a bad person.

As for your last point - My answer would be yes. Porn is the go-to scapegoat here for the vast majority of marriage problems, in my opinion. I don't agree that it is to the exclusion of other issues on the woman's part. I think at that point it is 50/50. I see a lot of marriage issues here on TAM that could be the husband's fault or the wife's fault. For example, if I see that a husband is a raging alcoholic and he is also using porn, I'm going to focus more on the alcoholic part. That should be top priority. Somehow though, someone will chime in and say that porn is the biggest problem.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

RebuildingMe said:


> Agreed. 100%. That’s why it’s all a fantasy. I don’t compare myself to those guys. Porn isn’t real. It’s just meant to turn people on. Do these same women compare themselves Hollywood actresses? They shouldn’t.


There are whole industries that exploit women's insecurities though, so it's easier for men to avoid feeling that way. Some women actually do, look at how accessible Hollywood diets, exercise routines, various cosmetic procedures and treatments are.

Plus some men have been going through midlife crises for as long as I can remember, which means they're not above comparing themselves to others. That usually means sports car, cheating, and/or dating you younger women. Now some women are keeping up.

I think porn/Hollywood lifestyles have become more mainstream and many people can't separate it from reality, like @elliblue mentioned and negatively influencing our society. Things are more vulgar and in your face than they ever use to be.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> While I agree with your first sentence, women have been cheating throughout history a plenty.


Great point, I say this all the time, it takes two for an affair. My wife grew up in the Catholic Hispanic culture where the men are all proud of their machismo and keep notches on their belts and the women are all saintly and don't sleep around. I tell her all the time that either there are a small number of women getting a lot of action or there is a lot of lying going on by both sides.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> I got the sense that throughout history, most married men cheated with prostitutes or had mistresses that were single women. They usually had to have money to do this; they'd set her up financially and she was "on call," basically. Or, as in the case of my great-great grandfather, he was a wealthy man who had a child by his housekeeper (Arnold Schwarzenegger- style, except he didn't care for his offspring but put her and her mother out on the street). I doubt there were as many married women cheating as married men. Certainly not zero, but I suspect it was not equivalent.
> 
> I remember my father telling me when I was younger that there was a "kind of woman you marry and a kind you don't." He was an atheist, so his advice was not coming from a religious place. His point was that men liked to have sex with multiple women, but they didn't want to marry one who had been one of those "multiple women." I think that was typical of his generation and those before it.


I'm not saying this didn't happen. I firmly believe that it did and still does. 

You are giving a small sample size. Same as my experience would be a small sample size. 

I personally believe that a lot of things simply were not talked about back then. I think you made strong arguments that the risks for women were greater - hence, I believe it would be kept much more secretive. I think it would be ridiculous for us to think that many men over the centuries did NOT raise kids that weren't their own. Back before DNA tests it would be simple for a woman to say, "This baby is yours!" and no one would be the wiser. 

The internet allows for much more shared information these days. Just because things are more well known now doesn't mean that adultery didn't happen 50/50 back then.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

@ConanHub and @LATERILUS79, as far as women cheating, I do know that ancestry DNA tests are bringing out lots of secrets, and it does make me wonder how many people who claim to be a descendent of *__* historical figure might eventually be proven wrong, at least biologically speaking.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

As it relates to this site, many threads are started by women and on occasion men, deeply upset by their spouses' addiction to porn. So, it makes sense why it comes up a lot on here. This isn't an issue in my marriage, but for some, it isn't porn viewing in and of itself alone, that seems to be the issue. It's that porn (from the threads I'm talking about) has diminished the couple's sex life, has become an addition for one of the spouse’s, and/or has created this divide in the marriage. 

It's more than occasionally viewing it, that is the problem. It tends to cause a lot of other problems in marriages.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

RebuildingMe said:


> Why do you think there are some many threads started about guys having fantasies about their wives being with another man while they watch? It’s all porn driven. These men are trying to take what’s fake back into their real life marriages. That’s abuse. Porn has its uses, but use responsibly.


I don't know about that but weren't the Romans and Greeks know to participate in orgies where this happened, long before the porn industry/


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Just because things are more well known now doesn't mean that adultery didn't happen 50/50 back then.


I just can't see it being 50/50 through all of history, and it isn't because I think women are superior. I think many people were just trying to survive through many periods of human history--very little leisure time--and honestly a lot of women stayed at home and didn't have the same opportunities or time to cheat with children around. Men would also have been just as busy (likely providing), but their sex drives are generally higher (till women hit middle age). They were more likely to be looking for sex to decompress. Many women were probably looking for a good night's sleep. 🤣

This is all just my hypothesis.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> . Things are more vulgar and in your face than they ever use to be.


That is a most unfortunate truth!!


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> @ConanHub and @LATERILUS79, as far as women cheating, I do know that ancestry DNA tests are bringing out lots of secrets, and it does make me wonder how many people who claim to be a descendent of *__* historical figure might eventually be proven wrong, at least biologically speaking.


Of course, even adoption was something that until the last 20 years was usually a taboo topic, with people not finding out their were adopted until after their parents were deceased, if they ever found out.

It's difficult to fathom in our modern age of expressing every last thought in our consciousness that through most of history there were topics and thoughts people did not discuss.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> I just can't see it being 50/50 through all of history, and it isn't because I think women are superior. I think many people were just trying to survive through many periods of human history--very little leisure time--and honestly a lot of women stayed at home and didn't have the same opportunities or time to cheat with children around. Men would also have been just as busy (likely providing), but their sex drives are generally higher (till women hit middle age). They were more likely to be looking for sex to decompress. Many women were probably looking for a good night's sleep. 🤣
> 
> This is all just my hypothesis.


I won't disagree with you here. I can see this happening. 

What are the stats today? Something like men leading women by like 5-7% when it comes to who commits more adultery? Fine. I can see that happening. I believe this is what it ALWAYS has been like. 

And what happens when women reach middle age and their sex drives increase? I've noticed the majority of the women cheating stories are when the women are in their 30's and 40's. There is probably some "catch up" happening there. 

Lastly, adultery is a title only given to the person that is married. For me personally, I do not like this distinction. Even if the AP is single, I still consider that person to be terrible. That is someone that doesn't care that they have a part in destroying someone else's marriage. At that point, if that person gets married in the future, I couldn't imagine trusting that person if they think it is completely fine to have sex with a married person while they were single. So, in my opinion, it stays 50/50 (unless of course men are committing adultery with other men, then they still would pull ahead. 🤣 )


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> It's more than occasionally viewing it, that is the problem. It tends to cause a lot of other problems in marriages.


So what would be occasionally? When does it become a problem? A lot of times vice doesnt stand still. If a shot bourbon before bedtime is good, how about 2 or 3? How about one before work as well, just to take the edge off.

I will just say, if wife had ever viewed porn, I would have been convinced it was because I didnt “measure up”. Our marriage would have been destroyed from that moment because wouldnt have been able to get the thoughts out of my head. No different than adultery for me. Maybe just my personality though, evidently doesnt bother lot of men or women at all.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I won't disagree with you here. I can see this happening.
> 
> What are the stats today? Something like men leading women by like 5-7% when it comes to who commits more adultery? Fine. I can see that happening. I believe this is what it ALWAYS has been like.
> 
> ...


As a BS, I never viewed the AP like that. Initial reaction was I felt sorry for her that she thought so little of herself to settle for my ex. Then I realized wow, she did me a favor, bc I must have felt contemptuous of him before to have had that reaction at all.

Anyway... where did she get the idea it was OK? Her parents? Society at large? What is being broadcast? I'm not trying to attack porn users (been there!) , but I'll maintain degenerate behavior degenerates society and quite a lot of degenerate behavior and mindsets come from porn.

ETA... don't believe me? Then you've obviously never taken a look at some of the categories floating around and stick to your favorite. I've seen some really sick ****.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> I just can't see it being 50/50 through all of history, and it isn't because I think women are superior. I think many people were just trying to survive through many periods of human history--very little leisure time--and honestly a lot of women stayed at home and didn't have the same opportunities or time to cheat with children around. Men would also have been just as busy (likely providing), but their sex drives are generally higher (till women hit middle age). They were more likely to be looking for sex to decompress. Many women were probably looking for a good night's sleep. 🤣
> 
> This is all just my hypothesis.


I agree, it was absolutely not because women are more moral or some such nonsense. It was opportunity and consequence. Affairs were normal and accepted for men but for women the consequences were being homeless and even never seeing your children again, in extreme cases. But we do know there have always been “jokes” about the children resembling the milk man, so it did happen.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Rus47 said:


> So what would be occasionally? When does it become a problem? A lot of times vice doesnt stand still. If a shot bourbon before bedtime is good, how about 2 or 3? How about one before work as well, just to take the edge off.
> 
> I will just say, if wife had ever viewed porn, I would have been convinced it was because I didnt “measure up”. Our marriage would have been destroyed from that moment because wouldnt have been able to get the thoughts out of my head. No different than adultery for me. Maybe just my personality though, evidently doesnt bother lot of men or women at all.


I agree but often times, from what I’ve noticed with these threads on here - the spouse doesn’t have any idea that their husband/wife is looking at porn until it starts seeping into other areas. There are couples who watch it together, and there are couples that don’t care much about it if their spouse is looking at it. But, it seems like when it starts affecting their sex lives, that’s when the spouses realize what has been going on. I worked with a guy who was fired for porn viewing at work - and his wife left him, etc…it was sad. Sad that he ruined his whole life over something that isn’t even real.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> ETA... don't believe me? Then you've obviously never taken a look at some of the categories floating around and stick to your favorite. I've seen some really sick ****.


You are correct. I do stick to my favorite categories on porn. 

To this day, I am quite proud that I have never seen "2 girls 1 cup". 🤣


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I do think they feel misunderstood or attacked.


I appreciate that you took the time to answer. I do wonder if some men who read "I think porn is wrong" hear "men who use porn are horrible men and their sexual frustrations don't matter," whether that message is being given (and perhaps at times it is) or not. Or if perhaps they assume the person who says that has not ever seen porn, is ignorant of it, or has no sex drive. 

On my part, none of the above is what I'm communicating.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> worked with a guy who was fired for porn viewing at work - and his wife left him, etc…it was sad. Sad that he ruined his whole life over something that isn’t even real.


When started using, proly thot “what harm ?” But vice doesnt stand still. He had to have more and more to feed the beast. No different than if he had been cheating. Once jump the fence they can never find their way home. Backseat of the car becomes in the marital bed. One AP becomes a series.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

It’s also true that while men did have to cheat with a woman, there are a LOT more female hookers than male hookers. So just because married men were sleeping around doesn’t mean that it was married women they were cheating with.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Rus47 said:


> When started using, proly thot “what harm ?” But vice doesnt stand still. He had to have more and more to feed the beast. No different than if he had been cheating. Once jump the fence they can never find their way home. Backseat of the car becomes in the marital bed. One AP becomes a series.


Totally agree, and that's why porn is not a healthy habit to take up. This isn't to say it will be a runaway, out of control habit for every man, but it will be for many. I wonder too if there's a link between porn use and affairs.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

LATERILUS79 said:


> You are correct. I do stick to my favorite categories on porn.
> 
> To this day, I am quite proud that I have never seen "2 girls 1 cup". 🤣


Thought so! Weenie!!!

That said, I'm more curious than the average bear.

Seriously though, before you go defending porn, you really should investigate everything under rhe umbrella. You might be surprised by what you find, your reaction, how it affects you. 

It's human nature to push limits, it's how we innovate and progress after all. I found some ideas were hard to get from my head until I quit, now it's a blandly curious thought and nothing more. Yes, I'm being deliberately vague! Ain't flying my freak flag for all and sundry 😆


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> Totally agree, and that's why porn is not a healthy habit to take up. This isn't to say it will be a runaway, out of control habit for every man, but it will be for many. I wonder too if there's a link between porn use and affairs.


Affairs take work, something avid porn users want to mostly avoid.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I'll do a little reality check on this one.
> 
> I have a friend who was very into porn while married to a real hotty.
> 
> ...


This sums it up nicely.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> Thought so! Weenie!!!
> 
> That said, I'm more curious than the average bear.
> 
> ...


I won't defend porn. 

I will just keep looking at it as I see fit.

I'm not interested in seeing everything under the umbrella. There is no curiosity here to see a woman have sex with a horse. No thanks. 🤣 As a man that was stuck in a dead bedroom for over a decade, my perspective was always, "it sure would be nice if my wife would have sex with me so I wouldn't have to look at porn". Clearly, I am not going to be the only type of case that looks at porn. In fact, I used to love my exwife so much that I would look for porn where the woman's body closely matched that of my exwife so I could imagine actually being with her! In addition, my exwife LOVES porn. Why? She said as long as I used it, I wouldn't bother her for sex nearly as often. Great gal, huh? 🤣 Nothing you don't already know about her. 

I can say this: The moment that the woman I'm with shows me attention, I stop watching porn. It is immediate. I don't need it nor do I want it. I am not like every user of porn, but I do think a lot of people are like me. It is just a tool.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Always Learning said:


> Great point, I say this all the time, it takes two for an affair. My wife grew up in the Catholic Hispanic culture where the men are all proud of their machismo and keep notches on their belts and the women are all saintly and don't sleep around. I tell her all the time that either there are a small number of women getting a lot of action or there is a lot of lying going on by both sides.


Or, hookers.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I don't see porn as a gender war issue at all and have seen varying viewpoints within the genders.

At least with the guys I've observed 2 types:
1. Men that can address different issues thoughtfully, which I appreciate even if I disagree with them.

2. Men who are so terrified that either they're being judged poorly or someone is coming to take away their God given right to porn that they can't have a thoughtful discussion.

I'm sure I could make female groups too: women who can discuss and women who have such poor body image or sexual issues that they can't discuss it.

I remember many years ago I posted something to the effect of a guy being a bit phony if he watched porn but would be upset if his daughter was in porn. I had those 2 distinct responses: someone made a thoughtful argument for why those 2 views could exist together and another guy just threw a tantrum.

Guy #1 made me think.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Twodecades said:


> I'm not sure about this. Meaning, I'm not arguing; I'm truly not sure. Perhaps this varied by culture. From what I can tell, in Rome it could be fairly common to have open relationships and even orgies. I can concede with certainty that female infidelity is not a new concept. Single women having the same attitudes and amount of sex as men does seem to be a modern American cultural shift.
> 
> And I don't mind a relevant thread jack! 😉


I've read that geneticists think that up to 30% of kids born in wedlock historically were not the husbands child. 

But before testing you wouldn't know thar unless different races were involved.

Women had to take it underground and stood to lose a lot more then men so we'll never know how common it was, but I'd bet it was more common then you'd think.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> I've read that geneticists think that up to 30% of kids born in wedlock historically were not the husbands child.
> 
> But before testing you wouldn't know thar unless different races were involved.
> 
> Women had to take it underground and stood to lose a lot more then men so we'll never know how common it was, but I'd bet it was more common then you'd think.


30% is INSANE. If that's true, I wonder how many people have unknowingly reproduced with a half-sibling, being that people tended to live their entire lives in their hometowns before industrialization.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I've read that geneticists think that up to 30% of kids born in wedlock historically were not the husbands child.
> 
> But before testing you wouldn't know thar unless different races were involved.
> 
> Women had to take it underground and stood to lose a lot more then men so we'll never know how common it was, but I'd bet it was more common then you'd think.


The ability woman have had of reproducing more than men (proven) gives a bit of credence to this.

Of course Attila, Genghis and their ilk took a lot of those choices away from everyone.😉


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> The ability woman have had of reproducing more than men (proven) gives a bit of credence to this.
> 
> Of course Attila, Genghis and their ilk took a lot of those choices away from everyone.😉


16 million men in the world today are descendants of Genghis. 

And that's just men....he had daughters too.

Rich men were able to buy a lot of women so the options for poorer men were fewer.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't see porn as a gender war issue at all and have seen varying viewpoints within the genders.
> 
> At least with the guys I've observed 2 types:
> 1. Men that can address different issues thoughtfully, which I appreciate even if I disagree with them.
> ...


I've always appreciated your logical mind. 

I will need to think for awhile on the daughter issue. Not an easy question to answer. Might not be able to even find an answer.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> 16 million men in the world today are descendants of Genghis.
> 
> And that's just men....he had daughters too.
> 
> Rich men were able to buy a lot of women so the options for poorer men were fewer.


And that definitely accounts for some of the fact that more women have reproduced than men.

It doesn't touch the percentage of men raising other men's offspring (unknowingly) however.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Yep...its a hot button topic...

Several observations...

Women somehow wrongly believe that if they can somehow "control" the conditions that their man is exposed to, then that man would all of a sudden see them as irresistible and never look another way...This is virtually impossible and a fools errand...We live in a society and culture now where sexy women are virtually everywhere...On TV, the internet, on the street, etc...Heck, if I showed you the women that walk around the gym I go to and what they are wearing you may not believe it...NOTHING to the imagination...As I am typing this, I look over at the local newscast, that features two ridiculously sexy middle aged women with enormous tits, and make sure you know it by way of the clothes they wear...Even when I was doing some mattress shopping recently , every ad shows a hot female sprawled out on the mattress,...You can't control this...period..

I won't say this is true in every case, as I obviously don't know, but I think some people have it wrong...They think that the porn use is_ replacing them._..I just don't see this(not in all cases, anyway)...If a guy knows he has a woman readily willing and available, he will likely always choose that option...for obvious reasons...The issue then is why doesn't he want them ? Its not because of the porn, from what I have seen, it's because something broke down in the marriage to kill desire and instead of going crazy, he goes to porn as a coping mechanism. NOT to replace what he has...You can just as easily reverse the genders here, the same still applies..

And just because a person is attractive means nothing...If the intimacy/desire is gone it doesn't matter what they look like...Its gone...Tom Brady for all we know maybe sick of his supermodel wife...who knows?

And why I am fully aware of the exploitation problem and can sympathize, all one has to do is look at the explosion of sites like onlyfans and such...Women have figured out how to monetize their sexuality...So they do it. While I do think there is exploitation, in many cases its women using what they have to make a dollar... 

I've never been a big consumer of porn, but I won't lie, I have used it...And there was a time in my life where no woman would probably want to be ravaged numerous times a day by a powerful 240 lb guy..I used it as a "fill in" during those times and that was the only time in my life where I kind of depended on it....That was a long time ago..Thaty beast is tamed now...lol...

So...It is my belief that many people can manage it fine(both genders), some are sick abusers, and others are using it just to get by until circumstances in their lives change...


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> 16 million men in the world today are descendants of Genghis.
> 
> And that's just men....he had daughters too.
> 
> Rich men were able to buy a lot of women so the options for poorer men were fewer.


I ended up with a 1% Asian result in my ancestry DNA test; my friend and I joked it was due to Genghis. Maybe it really was. 🤣



ConanHub said:


> The ability woman have had of reproducing more than men (proven) gives a bit of credence to this.


Sorry to be dense, but I don't understand what you mean. Men would have been able to have more offspring than women, since they put the bun in the oven and then can turn around and put another bun in another oven (sorry to be crude). The woman has to finish baking it before she can bake another, with a set amount of years she can be a baker. And baking is kind of exhausting. 😂


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> I ended up with a 1% Asian result in my ancestry DNA test; my friend and I joked it was due to Genghis. Maybe it really was. 🤣
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to be dense, but I don't understand what you mean. Men would have been able to have more offspring than women, since they put the bun in the oven and then can turn around a put another bun in another oven (sorry to be crude). The woman has to finish baking it before she can bake another, with a set amount of years she can be a baker. And baking is kind of exhausting. 😂


I believe what Conan is saying is that less men have the opportunity to reproduce - whereas most women have that opportunity. 

So what you are saying is true, TD... but this is like the Genghis situation. He is going from woman to woman to impregnate them all leaving less opportunity for other men. Hence, more women are reproducing than men.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Twodecades said:


> I ended up with a 1% Asian result in my ancestry DNA test; my friend and I joked it was due to Genghis. Maybe it really was. 🤣
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to be dense, but I don't understand what you mean. Men would have been able to have more offspring than women, since they put the bun in the oven and then can turn around a put another bun in another oven (sorry to be crude). The woman has to finish baking it before she can bake another, with a set amount of years she can be a baker. And baking is kind of exhausting. 😂


Some men, like Ghengis, certainly reproduced a lot.

Historically however, more women have reproduced than men. It's just data and has a lot of factors.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> Yep...its a hot button topic...
> 
> Several observations...
> 
> ...


You made a lot of interesting points, here, and I appreciate your honesty. I will circle back to this when I am able. (Gotta get some work and other things done.)


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I've always appreciated your logical mind.
> 
> I will need to think for awhile on the daughter issue. Not an easy question to answer. Might not be able to even find an answer.


Thanks! Just the fact that you're willing to think about it puts you in bucket #1.

I'm interested in your conclusion if you come to one.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

I personally wish I had never been exposed to porn, or at least that it wasn't so damn easy to find anything and everything. For me, over the years what I've watched continually drifted into more and more hard core and "fringe" sexual activities. I found it a bit like a car accident that you just can't seem to stop looking at. Then you find yourself looking for a worse accident. I know for me it was desensitizing in that way. One thing I've never done is make it a replacement for sex with my wife, but I found I was more into it when I had no porn exposure between sexual activities with my wife. I also link porn use to my trouble orgasming. That does effect sex life with my wife since she really enjoys when she brings me to orgasm, and I don't want to disappoint 

I know many disagree with it be addicting since there is no physical aspect like alcohol, opioids, etc., but let me tell you, it sure feels like an addiction. If my mind is occupied elsewhere I can go without it no problem, like I said, it doesn't have a physical withdraw aspect. However, if I'm even slightly bored the urge to go check something out is powerful. I'll start by just looking at some pics that aren't quite pornographic, next thing you know I'm watching midget MILF clown porn or some crazy **** like that. Believe it or not, I don't even masturbate to it most of the time. I just need to go "check it out". I don't even completely understand it myself. 

One thing I do know for sure, is that I've never seen my wife as less desirable because of my porn habit. In fact I think my wife is sexier than pretty much anyone I've seen in a porn scene. I've never witnessed anyone sexier or hotter than her when she is in the throws of ecstasy while having sex with me. No porn star will ever achieve that level of sexiness in my mind. There is no question that it has influenced me to want to try things with her, but I have always been able to see the fact that a lot of porn doesn't translate into quality real life sex. I will also say that I have actually learned some useful things from porn too. It hasn't been all bad, but in totality I feel I would be better off had I never been exposed to it.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> I think porn/Hollywood lifestyles have become more mainstream and many people can't separate it from reality, like @elliblue mentioned and negatively influencing our society. *Things are more vulgar and in your face than they ever use to be.*


It used to be TV got "adult" after 9pm. Now it's all day. Even commercials.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Thanks! Just the fact that you're willing to think about it puts you in bucket #1.
> 
> I'm interested in your conclusion if you come to one.


lol. Like I said, this is going to be TOUGH. For now, I'll wear the hypocrite hat. 

I will watch porn when I don't have a willing partner.

I do NOT want my daughter to do it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I do NOT want my daughter to do it.


At least and thank you!


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

For the people here that say, "Porn is an easy outlet to get an orgasm without having to work for it from your partner"....... does this also apply to sexy photos and videos of your partner? 

What if you have nude pictures, sex videos, etc. of your partner? Is that also considered porn? 

Is it considered bad if one is to masturbate to those pictures or videos of your partner? 

Is it ok for awhile but then eventually becomes "bad" because those videos and photos get older and older - which means your partner stays the same age and sexiness in those moments locked in time? 

I ask these questions seriously. I VERY much enjoyed the pictures and videos I've had of my partner. Is that "ok" or does that also fall into the realm of porn?


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> lol. Like I said, this is going to be TOUGH. For now, I'll wear the hypocrite hat.
> 
> I will watch porn when I don't have a willing partner.
> 
> I do NOT want my daughter to do it.



When people ask you that question, just respond simply "Do you want your daughter to work in sweatshop making clothes, shoes, handbags, etc all day long for peanuts" No? " Then why do you buy and wear all those things??"

Lets face it, most people wouldn't want their daughters to waitress in a diner either, but they go all the time...

I get the argument, just that it can be just as easily applied to a lot of things in life...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LATERILUS79 said:


> For the people here that say, "Porn is an easy outlet to get an orgasm without having to work for it from your partner"....... does this also apply to sexy photos and videos of your partner?
> 
> What if you have nude pictures, sex videos, etc. of your partner? Is that also considered porn?
> 
> ...


I do believe that is having sex with your partner. It would be different if your wife was getting her birth canal worked out by captain dong while you and others watched?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

hamadryad said:


> When people ask you that question, just respond simply "Do you want your daughter to work in sweatshop making clothes, shoes, handbags, etc all day long for peanuts" No? " Then why do you buy and wear all those things??"
> 
> Lets face it, most people wouldn't want their daughters to waitress in a diner either, but they go all the time...
> 
> I get the argument, just that it can be just as easily applied to a lot of things in life...


Shyt argument. I would absolutely rather my daughter work hard without selling her birth canal and other orifices so dudes can wank.

Are you someone that can't tell the difference between taking an order for a burger and getting stuffed by big wangs for money?

If you can't, I get it but you don't have close to the same comprehension as most.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> When people ask you that question, just respond simply "Do you want your daughter to work in sweatshop making clothes, shoes, handbags, etc all day long for peanuts" No? " Then why do you buy and wear all those things??"
> 
> Lets face it, most people wouldn't want their daughters to waitress in a diner either, but they go all the time...
> 
> I get the argument, just that it can be just as easily applied to a lot of things in life...


This is how I thought my argument would end up being. Something along these lines - but porn does appear to be in its own special category when it comes to a profession.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

LATERILUS79 said:


> lol. Like I said, this is going to be TOUGH. For now, I'll wear the hypocrite hat.
> 
> I will watch porn when I don't have a willing partner.
> 
> I do NOT want my daughter to do it.


If you can come up with a response I'll share what the poster said to me, but I don't want to bias your response.

I suspect most people feel like you. I'm just interested in the discussion.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LATERILUS79 said:


> This is how I thought my argument would end up being. Something along these lines - but porn does appear to be in its own special category when it comes to a profession.


People also need to eat and buy clothes. No one needs to watch women get plowed.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I recently broke my porn fast experiment. It didn’t make me feel any different. I lasted about 6 months without looking at any. 

Point of the experiment was to see if I felt different or acted differently or anything was different and I can say for me at least the only thing that was different was how easy it was to masturbate with vs without.

Like some here I look for actresses that kind of look like my wife. I picked her body type for a reason, that’s what I like.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

SCDad01 said:


> It used to be TV got "adult" after 9pm. Now it's all day. Even commercials.


If people didnt watch it wouldnt be on the tube. Wife n I have intentionally protested by not watching any channels or services that push the crap. And we record what we do watch to skip the commercials.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Or, hookers.


I guess that would qualify them as the small number of women getting a lot of action! Oddly enough in this highly Catholic country prostitution is legal in some parts.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> Shyt argument. I would absolutely rather my daughter work hard without selling her birth canal and other orifices so dudes can wank.
> 
> Are you someone that can't tell the difference between taking an order for a burger and getting stuffed by big wangs for money?
> 
> If you can't, I get it but you don't have close to the same comprehension as most.



No, man....its you that can't comprehend, Skip...lol, but reading some of your posts its completely understandable why you wouldn't.

NO ONE says its acceptable...NOT ME, and not anyone on the thread...And all it takes is some capability to critically think, to understand the reasoning of it...
\
The point being made is that the argument used (mostly by women) that for reasons of *exploitation*) doesn't really hold any merit, because people in many underprivileged areas, are being horrendously exploited so that others can enjoy themselves, buy goods cheaply, etc...

In that case, rather than make a dumb and pointless argument abou*t exploitation,* just say its unacceptable, for whatever reasoning(its gross, degrading, whatever). Period...This is not that difficult a concept...


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Always Learning said:


> I guess that would qualify them as the small number of women getting a lot of action! Oddly enough in this highly Catholic country prostitution is legal in some parts.


It’s called the oldest profession for a reason. It’s also not regarded by many as the same level of “cheating” as an affair, especially in the past. There are prolific amounts of brothels worldwide, it’s not like they’re hard to find.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

hamadryad said:


> No, man....its you that can't comprehend, Skip...lol, but reading some of your posts its completely understandable why you wouldn't.
> 
> NO ONE says its acceptable...NOT ME, and not anyone on the thread...And all it takes is some capability to critically think, to understand the reasoning of it...
> \
> ...


Then you weren't clear. Making an argument about doing something terrible because other things are terrible is a poor argument indeed and this post makes it seem that wasn't the argument you were making.

And, people do need clothes and food. They don't need porn.

I try to avoid buying products I know are made in sweat shops but I understand a lot of people just buy what they can afford.

Regardless, they aren't crying out about a porn shortage in the desperately poor areas of the world.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> When people ask you that question, just respond simply "Do you want your daughter to work in sweatshop making clothes, shoes, handbags, etc all day long for peanuts" No? " Then why do you buy and wear all those things??"
> 
> Lets face it, most people wouldn't want their daughters to waitress in a diner either, but they go all the time...
> 
> I get the argument, just that it can be just as easily applied to a lot of things in life...


Oh, please! Almost everyone has had menial jobs and they're stronger for it -- as opposed to having to anesthetize themselves with drugs to get through blowing a gross stranger. My god.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Thank you. You’re right about adultery. We see it when they defend lap dances and prostitutes, it’s starts out as harmless “fun” and then becomes the woman’s fault for aging or gaining weight or not giving him enough of the right kind of sex. It’s always the case on this forum that a woman cheating is immediate divorce but women are supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt. And when a man came on whose wife was watching porn it was considered to be MUCH worse than a man doing it, and they complained she was comparing her husband to male porn stars but insist that women who say men do that are wrong. And then of course when it’s time to hurl insults we learn that’s not the case.
> 
> And when you point that out, it’s man-hating. Cruel and incorrect generalizations about women, however, are just fine. As are direct insults to specific posters, which happens over and over.


"It's ALWAYS the case on this forum that a woman cheating is immediate divorce but women are supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt"???

There you go again, "ALWAYS" the case? This is just flat out untrue.

"Cruel and incorrect generalizations about women, however, are just fine". No they're not nor are the same "incorrect generalizations" about men fine. Are there men that do this on here? Absolutely. Just as there are women who do the same.....LIKE YOU!!!!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh, please! Almost everyone has had menial jobs and they're stronger for it -- as opposed to having to anesthetize themselves with drugs to get through blowing a gross stranger. My god.


I can't comprehend the gymnastics it takes to compare waitressing to porn.

That apparently wasn't the argument he was making (see his next post) but it sure as hell looked like it in the first place.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh, please! Almost everyone has had menial jobs and they're stronger for it -- as opposed to having to anesthetize themselves with drugs to get through blowing a gross stranger. My god.


Yeah, it's not an apples to oranges comparison. I get the analogy, but it's a bit of a stretch, honestly. Someone may not want their daughter to have to do a menial job forever, but the level of concern over her waiting tables would be exponentially less than her starting an OnlyFans channel.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yeah, it's not an apples to oranges comparison. I get the analogy, but it's a bit of a stretch, honestly. Someone may not want their daughter to have to do a menial job forever, but the level of concern over her waiting tables would be exponentially less than her starting an OnlyFans channel.


Well, and also, whose parents are telling them what jobs to take once they're adults anyway. The best thing a young adult can do is start learning varied skills and working and learn to scrap for a living because most are not lucky enough to have parents to finance their lives going forward. It's a parent's job to raise their kids to make their own decisions finally.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

sideways said:


> "It's ALWAYS the case on this forum that a woman cheating is immediate divorce but women are supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt"???
> 
> There you go again, "ALWAYS" the case? This is just flat out untrue.
> 
> "Cruel and incorrect generalizations about women, however, are just fine". No they're not nor are the same "incorrect generalizations" about men fine. Are there men that do this on here? Absolutely. Just as there are women who do the same.....LIKE YOU!!!!


Perhaps a comma would have helped make my meaning more clear. It is always the case that when a woman cheats the advice is that the man should leave. Comma. But women more often are told to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But then again, we all know it wouldn't have mattered. I can ALWAYS count on you and your buddies to accuse me of man-hating to deflect from any actual argument I make. As a matter of fact, you're one of the ones who has said that it really didn't matter what I posted or what I actually meant, anything I post automatically is "man hating" simply because it's me.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, and also, whose parents are telling them what jobs to take once they're adults anyway. The best thing a young adult can do is start learning varied skills and working and learn to scrap for a living because most are not lucky enough to have parents to finance their lives going forward. It's a parent's job to raise their kids to make their own decisions finally.


No, but as a parent we will always care what they're doing and worry about them.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yeah, it's not an apples to oranges comparison. I get the analogy, but it's a bit of a stretch, honestly. Someone may not want their daughter to have to do a menial job forever, but the level of concern over her waiting tables would be exponentially less than her starting an OnlyFans channel.


The repercussions are a world apart as well.

A young woman doing porn for a year or two will have lasting damage, both personal and professional.

Not even close to a woman who waitresses for a couple years.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

sideways said:


> "It's ALWAYS the case on this forum that a woman cheating is immediate divorce but women are supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt"???
> 
> There you go again, "ALWAYS" the case? This is just flat out untrue.
> 
> "Cruel and incorrect generalizations about women, however, are just fine". No they're not nor are the same "incorrect generalizations" about men fine. Are there men that do this on here? Absolutely. Just as there are women who do the same.....LIKE YOU!!!!


Nitpicker much?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

When I see news stories about a prostitution problem in town, or some strip club. I am always thinking every one of these women was someone’s innocent little girl. Someone carried them home from hospital with high hopes of what they could become.

These days especially a lot of women in these situations are trafficked.

There was a thread on here by a woman who wrote about “porn farms” south of US border. She wrote she managed to escape from one.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Nitpicker much?


It will never, ever stop. Ever. They will go through my posts and find some tiny something that in another poster's post wouldn't even register. They're doing it deliberately, it's stupid and really hateful and I'm so sick of it. I am not the only one who sees it, either. If I went through their posts and did the same to them, they'd report me.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It will never, ever stop. Ever. They will go through my posts and find some tiny something that in another poster's post wouldn't even register. They're doing it deliberately, it's stupid and really hateful and I'm so sick of it. I am not the only one who sees it, either. If I went through their posts and did the same to them, they'd report me.


They were the Junior Police on the school bus.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Perhaps a comma would have helped make my meaning more clear. It is always the case that when a woman cheats the advice is that the man should leave. Comma. But women more often are told to give him the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> But then again, we all know it wouldn't have mattered. I can ALWAYS count on you and your buddies to accuse me of man-hating to deflect from any actual argument I make. As a matter of fact, you're one of the ones who has said that it really didn't matter what I posted or what I actually meant, anything I post automatically is "man hating" simply because it's me.


A comma?

The point is you saying "ALWAYS".
Not a lot of the time, or most of the time, or some of the time, nope. In your eyes it's "ALWAYS" which again is flat out untrue.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Nitpicker much?


"Nitpicker"???

When someone flat out lies on here they're going to be called out.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

sideways said:


> A comma?
> 
> The point is you saying "ALWAYS".
> Not a lot of the time, or most of the time, or some of the time, nope. In your eyes it's "ALWAYS" which again is flat out untrue.


You're creating a thread jack. Don't you think correcting someone's verbiage is actually worse than the verbiage itself


sideways said:


> "Nitpicker"???
> 
> When someone flat out lies on here they're going to be called out.


You're just doing a personal attack and thread jack.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh, please! Almost everyone has had menial jobs and they're stronger for it -- as opposed to having to anesthetize themselves with drugs to get through blowing a gross stranger. My god.


In the age of the internet there are more and more people performing it on their own with out using drugs. With places like Only Fans or Chaturbate people are voluntarily performing in situations they control and making lots of money at it. The old porn industry is slowly dyeing. The internet is full of sites and people willingly performing on their own. The old creepy porn producers are going away.

If a couple is voluntarily posting their sex life on the internet in order to earn income, and I choose to watch them, where is the harm?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

sideways said:


> A comma?
> 
> The point is you saying "ALWAYS".
> Not a lot of the time, or most of the time, or some of the time, nope. In your eyes it's "ALWAYS" which again is flat out untrue.


No, the point is that no matter what I post, you're going to attack it. That is the only point. Any other poster and you'd accept the explanation as poor wording. But with me, it's "ALWAYS" that I'm attacking men, even though I wasn't attacking men in that post at all. This is a personal attack against me, a poster you hate, not a sentient argument or invitation to discussion. I could have said anything and you'd characterize it the same way. This is a threadjack to levy a personal attack against a poster you hate. If I did this to you, you'd immediately report me.

I challenge you to find a post where a man found out his wife was cheating and men on this forum told him to stay with her.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Always Learning said:


> In the age of the internet there are more and more people performing it on their own with out using drugs. With places like Only Fans or Chaturbate people are voluntarily performing in situations they control and making lots of money at it. The old porn industry is slowly dyeing. The internet is full of sites and people willingly performing on their own. The old creepy porn producers are going away.
> 
> If a couple is voluntarily posting their sex life on the internet in order to earn income, and I choose to watch them, where is the harm?


How the hell would you know that they're performing it without drugs? Seriously? They're probably performing it to get money FOR drugs. And just so you don't keep being so naive, a lot of those webcam women do have someone making them do it, just like on the streets. You just don't see them on camera.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Always Learning said:


> In the age of the internet there are more and more people performing it on their own with out using drugs. With places like Only Fans or Chaturbate people are voluntarily performing in situations they control and making lots of money at it. The old porn industry is slowly dyeing. The internet is full of sites and people willingly performing on their own. The old creepy porn producers are going away.
> 
> If a couple is voluntarily posting their sex life on the internet in order to earn income, and I choose to watch them, where is the harm?


I think this is actually really good progress. It seems like people who are exhibitionists now have a much safer way to share with others via the internet and no one is being exploited. 

I'm also kind of libertarian where porn is concerned, if a woman (or man) wants to do porn, as long as they are consenting adults, that is their choice. Taking the power away from the skeevy porn producers is a net positive all around. Because as others have said, there has been porn in some form or fashion since there were people, and it is not, IMO, necessarily a bad thing. It can be abused, but that is the fault of the person abusing it, not the porn itself.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Always Learning said:


> In the age of the internet there are more and more people performing it on their own with out using drugs. With places like Only Fans or Chaturbate people are voluntarily performing in situations they control and making lots of money at it. The old porn industry is slowly dyeing. The internet is full of sites and people willingly performing on their own. The old creepy porn producers are going away.
> 
> If a couple is voluntarily posting their sex life on the internet in order to earn income, and I choose to watch them, where is the harm?


Well, what you are talking about is still a pretty small percentage of it. You are talking about an entirely different subgroup.

OF girls might avoid much of the substance abuse and have more control but they have still damaged their personal and professional lives for a very long time.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> How the hell would you know that they're performing it without drugs? Seriously? They're probably performing it to get money FOR drugs. And just so you don't keep being so naive, a lot of those webcam women do have someone making them do it, just like on the streets. You just don't see them on camera.


Well you completely avoided my question. which gets to the point of this thread about why such a devisive topic But how the hell do you know that they are all on drugs. Are you saying it's not possible that people enjoy being exhibitionists with out taking drugs and making some money at it.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> How the hell would you know that they're performing it without drugs? Seriously? They're probably performing it to get money FOR drugs. And just so you don't keep being so naive, a lot of those webcam women do have someone making them do it, just like on the streets. You just don't see them on camera.


Oh by the way I am not naïve about any of it, I am fully aware, just participating in the discussion and offering a different perspective. I am not even necessarily condoning it.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I think this is actually really good progress. It seems like people who are exhibitionists now have a much safer way to share with others via the internet and no one is being exploited.
> 
> I'm also kind of libertarian where porn is concerned, if a woman (or man) wants to do porn, as long as they are consenting adults, that is their choice. Taking the power away from the skeevy porn producers is a net positive all around. Because as others have said, there has been porn in some form or fashion since there were people, and it is not, IMO, necessarily a bad thing. It can be abused, but that is the fault of the person abusing it, not the porn itself.


Thank you for the response, well thought out with out jumping to conclusions.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Well, what you are talking about is still a pretty small percentage of it. You are talking about an entirely different subgroup.
> 
> OF girls might avoid much of the substance abuse and have more control but they have still damaged their personal and professional lives for a very long time.


I agree with you here, once on the internet always on the internet. It could make a future difficult if your OF shows follow you around for life. I can't imagine the torment a kid would take when classmates find their mothers postings someday.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Always Learning said:


> Well you completely avoided my question. which gets to the point of this thread about why such a devisive topic But how the hell do you know that they are all on drugs. Are you saying it's not possible that people enjoy being exhibitionists with out taking drugs and making some money at it.


I'm saying there may be some people like that but there are also a lot of women forced into doing that just like they are kept in prostitution. And one is too many. 24 million is certainly way too many.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm saying there may be some people like that but there are also a lot of women forced into doing that just like they are kept in prostitution. And one is too many. 24 million is certainly way too many.


So are you going to answer my question? is there any harm being done?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Always Learning said:


> So are you going to answer my question? is there any harm being done?


I'll play but only with the exhibitionist couple scenarios.

I think the only damage would possibly be their reputations and possible personal relationships and possible professional problems.

Someone watching might develop psychological and/or sexual problems but certainly isn't contributing to anything the couple showing off don't want.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Always Learning said:


> I agree with you here, once on the internet always on the internet. It could make a future difficult if your OF shows follow you around for life. I can't imagine the torment a kid would take when classmates find their mothers postings someday.


That's a good point, although they are making a choice, as is their right. But if you're texting pictures to your SO, you're also all over the internet so... I think it's losing a bit of it's social sting but I can't be sure. I certainly wouldn't do it, it would ruin my career. Plus, as we've learned, I'm 50 and overweight and no one ever wants to see that. Although it's not 40 pounds any more. 🤣


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Perhaps my reasoning was twisted or misinterpreted....understandable...

You may see a guy out there with his son and they are driving down the road and see a garbage truck...He says "see, son. this is why I tell you to stay in school and focus on your studies, you don't want to be like these dopes hanging off the back of that nasty truck in the blazing heat"...Then go home and dump the cat litter and spoiled fish in the can and put it out at the curb...

Its pure hypocrisy to be critical of others if you are going to use them and take advantage of their misfortune or lack of ability to get a better way to make a living... 

I just read an article in Forbes that featured the "cash me outside" girl...She apparently is now worth according to the article 50 million dollars...I am not governed that much by monetary gain, but knowing many people who are, there is no telling to what level of degradation they would be willing to do for a clean million, let alone 50....


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> No, the point is that no matter what I post, you're going to attack it. That is the only point. Any other poster and you'd accept the explanation as poor wording. But with me, it's "ALWAYS" that I'm attacking men, even though I wasn't attacking men in that post at all. This is a personal attack against me, a poster you hate, not a sentient argument or invitation to discussion. I could have said anything and you'd characterize it the same way. This is a threadjack to levy a personal attack against a poster you hate. If I did this to you, you'd immediately report me.
> 
> I challenge you to find a post where a man found out his wife was cheating and men on this forum told him to stay with her.


So now me pointing this out about you using the word "ALWAYS" when describing men (and doing this numerous times since you've joined TAM) means I "hate you"???🤣🤣🤣

Listen clearly, I do NOT "hate" anyone on here and me pointing out you making numerous comments painting ALL men thinking and acting exactly the same is AGAIN wrong and untrue.

Just as it would be wrong for anyone (especially men) to label ALL women the same. That they ALL think and act the same way and that they ALL give the EXACT same advice which anyone knows IS NOT TRUE but you keep on doing so in regards to men here on TAM. 

And so by me shining a light on your narrow thinking means I'm "personally attacking you"???

Lady give me a break and lighten the F up.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> Perhaps my reasoning was twisted or misinterpreted....understandable...
> 
> You may see a guy out there with his son and they are driving down the road and see a garbage truck...He says "see, son. this is why I tell you to stay in school and focus on your studies, you don't want to be like these dopes hanging off the back of that nasty truck in the blazing heat"...Then go home and dump the cat litter and spoiled fish in the can and put it out at the curb...
> 
> ...


I don't see it as hypocritical to not want your kids to engage in a service occupation while still using those services. I told my daughter it was a bad idea to get into architecture, for various reasons, but I'll damn sure keep using architects and it isn't hypocritical. 

There is a difference between acting in porn and being a trash man or working in a sweat shop. In porn you are lured there by fame and fortune. I doubt anyone has expected to get rich being a trashman. I think there are a lot of people in porn because they see it as the easiest and fastest way to cash in. Most people really enjoy sex and to think you can do something as pleasurable as sex and possibly get rich from it can be a strong draw to young people.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> , I'm 50 and overweight and no one ever wants to see that.


Not true. Many men find women in their age range very physically attractive whether they are overweight or not


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Always Learning said:


> So are you going to answer my question? is there any harm being done?


Yes. Of course there is. What's all this are you going to ask my question BS? Don't you have any common sense? You do realize a lot of these cam girls are not even in their mid-20s yet and don't even have a fully developed brain that can predict the consequences of their actions?

They are also being sex trafficked left and right. They are also ruining their young lives doing this because it will follow them forever and they won't be able to make money off of it for very long. And all forms of p*** in general is destructive to marriages. As we've seen over and over again on this forum.

Anyone in sex work is also being recruited by people that want to exploit them and those are not nice people but then neither are the Johns and the voyeurs.

Sex trafficking is all wrapped up with the drug trade because that's how they keep women in it willing to be exploited.

If these women see clients in person were they attract an internet stalker their lives can be in danger rather quickly.

We've known for 50 years that women who voluntarily get into this stuff have already been sexualized as a child 85% of the time. So they're already damaged and exploited and this is doing nothing to break the cycle. These women will attract trashy men into their lives and get pregnant by one and then continue the cycle with their own children.

If this is what they've been doing for a living when they're young, what are they doing when they're 40 and haven't developed any other skills? In an article I just posted and also investigations I've seen and also one personal case I've seen up close back in my college years, some of them become pimps themselves because they can't do it anymore and they may do that under the umbrella of a big sex trafficking operation or they may do it for themselves but at any rate they're still exploiting someone and grooming them and brainwashing them to get into something that's not good for them.

If you had a 21-year-old daughter how would you feel if you went on to a webcam and saw her masturbating in front of the camera? Would you say well good for you you learned how to make money the easy way?

Do you pat your son on the back when he's watching this stuff?

Now, don't ask me any more questions because unlike these young prostitutes and their traffickers, I have a day job and I'm getting ready to work and make money the slow way.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I'll play but only with the exhibitionist couple scenarios.
> 
> I think the only damage would possibly be their reputations and possible personal relationships and possible professional problems.
> 
> Someone watching might develop psychological and/or sexual problems but certainly isn't contributing to anything the couple showing off don't want.


That is a fair point, might be weird watching the neighbors OF page and running into them at the grocery store! I'd probably be more uncomfortable than they would be.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That's a good point, although they are making a choice, as is their right. But if you're texting pictures to your SO, you're also all over the internet so... I think it's losing a bit of it's social sting but I can't be sure. I certainly wouldn't do it, it would ruin my career. Plus, as we've learned, I'm 50 and overweight and no one ever wants to see that. Although it's not 40 pounds any more. 🤣


I think you would be surprised by who would be watching, not everyone is looking for the fit 20 year old's, I wouldn't be, Id like to see someone closer to my own age shape.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Always Learning said:


> That is a fair point, might be weird watching the neighbors OF page and running into them at the grocery store! I'd probably be more uncomfortable than they would be.


Yeah. They might be perfectly comfortable with it because exhibitionists are what they are.

I have to think it wouldn't always turn out so good though.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Lots of interesting rabbit trails coming from this, which is great. I cannot keep up, here, but some of there topics would make for interesting threads (such as banning vs. legalizing pornography or the motives and lifestyles of sex workers).

I will say that if people want to make a useful argument, applying universal adjectives often aren't helpful or logical. "All men do Y" or "all women do X" or "you always" or "you never" is usually a tip off that someone is biased. 

Most of the responses have furthered the conversation, which I appreciate. It seems like things are devolving, though.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Always Learning said:


> I think you would be surprised by who would be watching, not everyone is looking for the fit 20 year old's, I wouldn't be, Id like to see someone closer to my own age shape.


I think most people probably feel more intrigued by someone their own league/age....Makes it less of a fantasy and more reality?? I dunno..
.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Twodecades said:


> Lots of interesting rabbit trails coming from this, which is great. I cannot keep up, here, but some of there topics would make for interesting threads (such as banning vs. legalizing pornography or the motives and lifestyles of sex workers).
> 
> I will say that if people want to make a useful argument, applying universal adjectives often aren't helpful or logical. "All men do Y" or "all women do X" or "you always" or "you never" is usually a tip off that someone is biased.
> 
> Most of the responses have furthered the conversation, which I appreciate. It seems like things are devolving, though.


Since this is an opinion forum, not a graded debate class, I would wager that everybody on here has generalized at one time or another.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That's a good point, although they are making a choice, as is their right. But if you're texting pictures to your SO, you're also all over the internet so... I think it's losing a bit of it's social sting but I can't be sure. I certainly wouldn't do it, it would ruin my career. * Plus, as we've learned, I'm 50 and overweight and no one ever wants to see that. * Although it's not 40 pounds any more. 🤣


Start an Only Fans site and watch how quickly you are proved wrong, lol.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Twodecades said:


> Lots of interesting rabbit trails coming from this, which is great. I cannot keep up, here, but some of there topics would make for interesting threads (such as banning vs. legalizing pornography or the motives and lifestyles of sex workers).
> 
> I will say that if people want to make a useful argument, applying universal adjectives often aren't helpful or logical. "All men do Y" or "all women do X" or "you always" or "you never" is usually a tip off that someone is biased.
> 
> *Most of the responses have furthered the conversation, which I appreciate. It seems like things are devolving, though.*


I have found this is the usual M/O of just about any topic discussed on forums like these...


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yes. Of course there is. What's all this are you going to ask my question BS? Don't you have any common sense? You do realize a lot of these cam girls are not even in their mid-20s yet and don't even have a fully developed brain that can predict the consequences of their actions?
> 
> They are also being sex trafficked left and right. They are also ruining their young lives doing this because it will follow them forever and they won't be able to make money off of it for very long. And all forms of p*** in general is destructive to marriages. As we've seen over and over again on this forum.
> 
> ...


I asked you one question you finally partly answered it, you believe there to be harm done by a couple of exhibitionists voluntarily exposing their sex life. so to make you happy I will not ask again since you went on and on about everything but. The original poster now has their answer, you could not have done it any better.


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## DaringGreatly (7 mo ago)

RebuildingMe said:


> Women don’t like men looking at porn because the women in porn aren’t 50 years old and 40 pounds overweight.


The women aren't looking at the girls in porn and developing self esteem issues their looking at the guy in porn with the giant d*** that can apparently give multiple screaming orgasms, do 10 different positions and wondering if they settled when they married their Jo average husband😂😂😂

Sorry. I couldn't help myself. It's late and I just came off night-shift 😜


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DaringGreatly said:


> The women aren't looking at the girls in porn and developing self esteem issues their looking at the guy in porn with the giant d*** that can apparently give multiple screaming orgasms, do 10 different positions and wondering if they settled when they married their Jo average husband😂😂😂
> 
> Sorry. I couldn't help myself. It's late and I just came off night-shift 😜


I know your having fun but a lot of women don't want the big one and don't fantasize about getting treated like a piece of pavement under a jackhammer.😋


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## DaringGreatly (7 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> I know your having fun but a lot of women don't want the big one and don't fantasize about getting treated like a piece of pavement under a jackhammer.😋


You are absolutely correct as usual Conan. I was having a little fun pointing out that the unrealistic expectations work both ways. 

I absolutely prefer lovemaking to porn sex any day of the week😉


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

I’m 50 and almost 40 pounds overweight lol!

I believe the divisiveness seen with this topic is merely a reflection of how different we all are. I really do think it’s just that simple. There will always be things that either we disagree with or even truly bother us at a soul deep level. And who reacts to what in which way is going to depend on the individual wiring so it’s difficult to get angry at people who disagree and even get mean about it when you know they can’t help the way they are because it’s just who they are.

So shaming someone for their beliefs or opinions on a topic such as this one is pointless and you should be asking yourself why it affects you so deeply if you are the one getting angry. Why does someone else’s opinion affect you so deeply? We all get to pick and choose the causes we stand for but ultimately we each stand alone in those choices and no one owes us support or backing in those chosen opinions. Sort of the same concept as life doesn’t owe any of us a damn thing just because we were born.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Not said:


> I’m 50 and almost 40 pounds overweight lol!
> 
> I believe the divisiveness seen with this topic is merely a reflection of how different we all are. I really do think it’s just that simple. There will always be things that either we disagree with or even truly bother us at a soul deep level. And who reacts to what in which way is going to depend on the individual wiring so it’s difficult to get angry at people who disagree and even get mean about it when you know they can’t help the way they are because it’s just who they are.
> 
> So shaming someone for their beliefs or opinions on a topic such as this one is pointless and you should be asking yourself why it affects you so deeply if you are the one getting angry. Why does someone else’s opinion affect you so deeply? We all get to pick and choose the causes we stand for but ultimately we each stand alone in those choices and no one owes us support or backing in those chosen opinions. Sort of the same concept as life doesn’t owe any of us a damn thing just because we were born.


You should be asking why it doesn't affect you deeply, too.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You should be asking why it doesn't affect you deeply, too.


It just plain and simply doesn’t


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Twodecades said:


> No need for an apology! ☺
> 
> You bring up a good point. We tend to assume that a consumer of porn is male. There are plenty of female consumers. I suspect they are less vocal about it.


I think most of them are into the mommy porn books. SOG and the like. The pictures are in their imagination which can be much more vivid.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Divinely Favored said:


> I think most of them are into the mommy porn books. SOG and the like. The pictures are in their imagination which can be much more vivid.


There are an increasing number of female porn consumers though it isn't at male levels yet.

There are also far fewer female incels so there is that.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

A very long threadjack has been deleted. Please stick to the topic of the thread.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I know your having fun but a lot of women don't want the big one and don't fantasize about getting treated like a piece of pavement under a jackhammer.😋


Right?! 

I dont personally know any women who gossiped about wantingto be treated like they treat women at porn. On the contrary, i hear about wanting attention, be treated lovingly and feeling that they matter, that the significant other should focus more on them.

Almost the complete oposite of porn.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> A very long threadjack has been deleted. Please stick to the topic of the thread.


Sorry, @ElleGirl 

:I


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> There are an increasing number of female porn consumers though it isn't at male levels yet.
> 
> There are also far fewer female incels so there is that.


It is funny to me that there are a lot of women who have fits about porn, that have no issue with books like Shades of Grey. I consider them the same thing. 

I knew guys that really liked how sexual their wives were getting when reading them. They did not get that their wives had already had someone pictured in their mind the guy looked like. And I'm sure most of them fantasized they were the girl in the book while reading it. 

So when they are getting wild in bed, the hubby is just a human dildo stand in for Grey who in their mind, they are really screwing. So in that, it is no different than some guy fantasizing about the girl in the photo. Both just as bad.

The co-worker that was happy about his wife's increased libido fantasizing about Grey....well she finally got to a point she started screwing her best friends State Trooper hubby, I guess he was more the BDSM type guy than her hubby.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

moon7 said:


> Right?!
> 
> I dont personally know any women who gossiped about wantingto be treated like they treat women at porn. On the contrary, i hear about wanting attention, be treated lovingly and feeling that they matter, that the significant other should focus more on them.
> 
> Almost the complete oposite of porn.


How many women got all off into and all hot and bothered reading Shades of Grey...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

moon7 said:


> Sorry, @ElleGirl
> 
> :I


Raises hand. Me as well.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Divinely Favored said:


> It is funny to me that there are a lot of women who have fits about porn, that have no issue with books like Shades of Grey. I consider them the same thing.
> 
> I knew guys that really liked how sexual their wives were getting when reading them. They did not get that their wives had already had someone pictured in their mind the guy looked like. And I'm sure most of them fantasized they were the girl in the book while reading it.
> 
> ...


You know, I don't put bodice rippers in a similar category as porn but there is a danger, of course, when a spouse isn't spending their efforts and sexual energy on their partner.

Some imagination and fantasy is healthy and actually a bit needed but you are correct about women (generally) running into problems with fantasies and how reality is left wanting in comparison.

I don't believe this post is a TJ but I'm not going to continue along this line on this thread at least.😉


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Actually porn is perceived much differently by men than women. 
Other than gay porn In the majority of porn movies it is the women who are the main focus point, the men are simply there as part of the product as supposed pleasure makers for the woman that the emphasise is on. It`s not simply the sexual acts that turn the male viewers on, but rather a sadistic pleasure of seeing a woman degraded, abused and into stuff they know must be painful with the women seemingly getting pleasure out of being bodily abused and taking themselves down to animal levels, giving a semblance that it`s every woman`s fantasy to be raped and sexually abused. So in-fact porn is not all about sex but rather about abuse and sadism. 
Strangely, according to some surveys I have read, the number one favourite for women is lesbian porn. Perhaps the reason for this is that lesbian porn is gentler and more dignified then being sexually degraded by groups of men, which could be described as consensual rape.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

moon7 said:


> Right?!
> 
> I dont personally know any women who gossiped about wantingto be treated like they treat women at porn. On the contrary, i hear about wanting attention, be treated lovingly and feeling that they matter, that the significant other should focus more on them.
> 
> Almost the complete oposite of porn.


I would imagine most women that wanted something rough, kinky, out of the ordinary, etc, probably wouldn't share that with another woman, for fear of being judged, whether it was fair or not..,.... but I dunno...


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> You know, I don't put bodice rippers in a similar category as porn but there is a danger, of course, when a spouse isn't spending their efforts and sexual energy on their partner.


IMO this is exactly on target. Anything that diverts romantic energy away from a spouse toward a computer screen, book, movie, magazine, whatever isn't friendly to a marriage.

We should guard our eye gate” and “ear gate” to avoid putting thoughts about others into our heads. Our mind is the battleground.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Rus47 said:


> IMO this is exactly on target. Anything that diverts romantic energy away from a spouse toward a computer screen, book, movie, magazine, whatever isn't friendly to a marriage.
> 
> We should guard our eye gate” and “ear gate” to avoid putting thoughts about others into our heads. Our mind is the battleground.


My mind is actually a bunch of dusty shelves and old doors but I get your meaning.😋😉


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## Nico_Jacobs (4 mo ago)

Twodecades said:


> I've noticed that whenever the topic of pornography comes up, it seems to bring out the gender wars hard core. To be fair, there are people of both genders on either side of the debate, both pro and against. I'm not trying to open another debate on whether it's right or wrong; I'm trying to understand why discussions about it devolve so quickly around here. It's been my experience that people (both men and women) who say they are against it for moral reasons tend to get attacked, usually by men.
> 
> Women who are against it (outside of moral or religious reasons) tend to feel that it disrespects and degrades women and creates unrealistic expectations. I think it can be triggering for those who have been in a relationship with an addicted man or neglected by their partners in favor of pornography. Perhaps they're concerned about how readily available it is to children. In some ways, I can see parallels to Prohibition. Perhaps they feel belittled or minimized regarding their concerns.
> 
> ...


This post was a great idea. A post that asks a question as to why people lose objectivity when it comes to a top, becomes a post that loses objectivity. Every person gives an opinion based on personal bias vice objective thinking. Without bias, I would say that the majority of people that have the opinion about how harmful or I harmful pornography can be, have probably been affected by it in some way. My opinion is that like most things in the world, we can weapon anything. To say that pornography only harms one group is not true. It can harm just about any group that exists, if used inappropriately. I’ve seen instances where it’s even been prescribed as a marital aid. If we are to say that it destroys marriages then we should also say that everything else does the same thing. Turn on any news channel and I promise you that someone is being objectified. 
may be based on sex, gender, race, etc. it’s just with the news, clothes are on. So would it be safe to say that maybe supporting porn or not, it is ultimately the user that has to be responsible for their actions. Blaming porn or guns or tobacco farmers for the negative things that come from them. We should be focused on the people and not the medium. Oh and by the way, I am not in favor of watching porn. I just don’t condemn people that choose to use it. Thoughts?


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## umbluu (Jan 24, 2020)

Well, I actually though about one more answer to the original question, that has not been covered before.

I do watch occasionally, although I recognize that there are many problems with porn - even using free stuff is supporting the industry that benefits from exploitation, there is potential for addiction, creating unrealistic expectations, diverting energy from real relationship, etc. Maybe I am too old and have not been exposed at young enough age, or enough in general, but while I did get a couple of ideas from porn that I would probably never get on my own otherwise, I do not see myself being desensitized to violence, degradation and such. These things turn me off. But I do like an admittedly small segment where people who love each other (or successfully pretend) are having hot sex in ways they normally do not show on mainstream TV. But in ways that are clearly consensual and do not include some stereotypical unequal / using power dynamics. As I said elsewhere, I am a kind of guy who cringes at the term "wife sharing" - not because I oppose threesomes on principle, but because this particular wording implies dynamics that is too imbalanced for my taste.
And I would like to share some video I like with my wife, occasionally. Unfortunately she is not fond of this particular kind of sharing. Which makes me sensitive to people making generalizations about porn in my presence. It is not that I feel bad or judged - I know what I watch and what I do not watch - it just makes me sad about not being able to share this aspect of sexuality with my wife.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Nico_Jacobs said:


> This post was a great idea. A post that asks a question as to why people lose objectivity when it comes to a top, becomes a post that loses objectivity. Every person gives an opinion based on personal bias vice objective thinking. Without bias, I would say that the majority of people that have the opinion about how harmful or I harmful pornography can be, have probably been affected by it in some way. My opinion is that like most things in the world, we can weapon anything. To say that pornography only harms one group is not true. It can harm just about any group that exists, if used inappropriately. I’ve seen instances where it’s even been prescribed as a marital aid. If we are to say that it destroys marriages then we should also say that everything else does the same thing. Turn on any news channel and I promise you that someone is being objectified.
> may be based on sex, gender, race, etc. it’s just with the news, clothes are on. So would it be safe to say that maybe supporting porn or not, it is ultimately the user that has to be responsible for their actions. Blaming porn or guns or tobacco farmers for the negative things that come from them. We should be focused on the people and not the medium. Oh and by the way, I am not in favor of watching porn. I just don’t condemn people that choose to use it. Thoughts?



This was pretty much the point I was attempting to make earlier in the thread, and proceeded to get lit up... 😂 

Anyway, I do agree that these things often become "pet" gripes for some people...so there is no grey area...Its triggering to such a degree that it arises strong opinions with no room for discussion...That's their right, I suppose, 

Its like lets say someone in a couple decides to start getting in shape...Positive move, right? Well, you see often on this forum, especially when its women getting in shape, posters immediately assume that the woman doing this is not doing to for any other reason than she wants a new d!ck...I have seen this play out numerous times..


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Nico_Jacobs said:


> This post was a great idea. A post that asks a question as to why people lose objectivity when it comes to a top, becomes a post that loses objectivity. Every person gives an opinion based on personal bias vice objective thinking. Without bias, I would say that the majority of people that have the opinion about how harmful or I harmful pornography can be, have probably been affected by it in some way. My opinion is that like most things in the world, we can weapon anything. To say that pornography only harms one group is not true. It can harm just about any group that exists, if used inappropriately. I’ve seen instances where it’s even been prescribed as a marital aid. If we are to say that it destroys marriages then we should also say that everything else does the same thing. Turn on any news channel and I promise you that someone is being objectified.
> may be based on sex, gender, race, etc. it’s just with the news, clothes are on. So would it be safe to say that maybe supporting porn or not, it is ultimately the user that has to be responsible for their actions. Blaming porn or guns or tobacco farmers for the negative things that come from them. We should be focused on the people and not the medium. Oh and by the way, I am not in favor of watching porn. I just don’t condemn people that choose to use it. Thoughts?


Yes I see it now. CNN and FOX are the same as porn....

Waitressing is just like porn....


Everything is just like porn......

Naw. I actually think it's a load of bull chips.😆


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

Divinely Favored said:


> How many women got all off into and all hot and bothered reading Shades of Grey...


Never read/watched (even though ive read other related stuff), but i doubt it looks like everyday porn, otherwise those women would all simply watch porn instead of turning this book/movie into a legend.

The build up, the attention, the focus on her (im assuming its like other soft core romance books), her pleasure is important to him and on and on...


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

hamadryad said:


> I would imagine most women that wanted something rough, kinky, out of the ordinary, etc, probably wouldn't share that with another woman, for fear of being judged, whether it was fair or not..,.... but I dunno...


No, they do share!! But its not like what you see in everyday porn, definitely.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

The talk of women and objective-izing, to shed some light on how it's monetized everywhere, not that I condone this/that.. .just made me think of why do restaurants generally use attractive women, attractively dressed, for hostesses that do the seating? 

That's not by accident! And that's not the only example but just one that popped into mind because we've had a lot of restaurant gatherings as of late.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Comparing video of a woman being gang banged to a dirty book is like comparing shooting a bullet to throwing it. 😂😂. They are, technically, the same type of thing. The same as a lion and a housecat are both feline. But technically, yes, both porn.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> The talk of women and objective-izing, to shed some light on how it's monetized everywhere, not that I condone this/that.. .just made me think of why do restaurants generally use attractive women, attractively dressed, for hostesses that do the seating?
> 
> That's not by accident! And that's not the only example but just one that popped into mind because we've had a lot of restaurant gatherings as of late.


So are saying, you think they're trying to exploit men with visual candy? Does that mean men who succumb to such tactics by spending or tipping more do all their thinking with their ****s ? Like giant children with a different kind of candy?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> So are saying, you think they're trying to exploit men with visual candy?


Of course. Otherwise Hooters, Twin Peaks, etc wouldn’t survive. Never been in either, so maybe their food is best ever, what do I know?


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> So are saying, you think they're trying to exploit men with visual candy? Does that mean men who succumb to such tactics by spending or tipping more do all their thinking with their ****s ? Like giant children with a different kind of candy?


I don't even think its all about men....I mean, its so ubiquitous that there is no possible way that it can only be targeting men...Also, I can't remember a time in my life where the main focus seems to be large breasted sexier figured women...not just "pretty" as was seemingly the norm in the past..


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Rus47 said:


> Of course. Otherwise Hooters, Twin Peaks, etc wouldn’t survive. Never been in either, so maybe their food is best ever, what do I know?


😆 🤣 😂 
I was being facetious to point put how absurd these kinds of men are. 

I totally get that single/undersexed men would turn to pirn as an outlet , been there! However , it occurs to me that maybe it's like the "stigma" of bring single past a certain ahe, or divorced multiple times. Where "regular " folk think somethings wrong with you, you don't pass their sniff test. So it engenders a defensive attitude, to protect self esteem without having given any thought as to the reasons behind it?

I know my attitude to porn use is completely hypocritical, as a past porn user, but I do lose a lot of respect for men who use porn and frequent titty bars, they simply fall of my mate-dar.

However, that's mostly because of my personal experience in a mostly sexlesss marriage.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

hamadryad said:


> I don't even think its all about men....I mean, its so ubiquitous that there is no possible way that it can only be targeting men...Also, I can't remember a time in my life where the main focus seems to be large breasted sexier figured women...not just "pretty" as was seemingly the norm in the past..


As a heterosexual woman with zero interest in rugmunching, my focus will naturally be on men 😆


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> I do lose a lot of respect for men who use porn and frequent titty bars


IME those behaviors don't happen in a vacuum. They are generally accompanied by a number of other undesirable behaviors that make someone less than ideal as a life partner.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> IME those behaviors don't happen in a vacuum. They are generally accompanied by a number of other undesirable behaviors that make someone less than ideal as a life partner.


I have to agree with this. 

I remember asking my ex about his porn use, he was extremely defensive and told me "All men did that", my expectations were unrealistic. When I look back at the things I chose to accept to "save my marriage ", I wish I hadn't. 

Anyway, I communicated my thoughts on porn to my bf, he's already the LD one of us, and he knows I won't tolerate that crap again and can't say I haven't stated my boundaries.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> Also, I can't remember a time in my life where the main focus seems to be large breasted sexier figured women


Well bet am way older than you. And I recall Carol Doda long ago as a kid. And the Playboy and Penthouse magazines us middle schoolers swiped from our fathers. The emphasis was most definitely on racks.!


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

To each their own.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> To each their own.


Exactly. There was a thread here awhile ago polling male preferences. Forgot what won out but was about evenly divided among the possibilities. My wife-to-be’s rack was what got my attention when first saw her in HS.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> Of course. Otherwise Hooters, Twin Peaks, etc wouldn’t survive. Never been in either, so maybe their food is best ever, what do I know?


I read a case where a former manager of one of those places told all about it. Strip clubs recruit your teen daughters from those places. And for $10, the girls will sit bent over at your table so you can look down their lowcut shirts at their boobs. Just what everyone wants their teen daughter doing. Of course the uniforms are all confined to really small teenage sizes. Nice.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> Exactly. There was a thread here awhile ago polling male preferences. Forgot what won out but was about evenly divided among the possibilities. My wife-to-be’s rack was what got my attention when first saw her in HS.


Cool


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Exactly. There was a thread here awhile ago polling male preferences. Forgot what won out but was about evenly divided among the possibilities. My wife-to-be’s rack was what got my attention when first saw her in HS.


You too?! 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> Of course. Otherwise Hooters, Twin Peaks, etc wouldn’t survive. Never been in either, so maybe their food is best ever, what do I know?


Hooters‘ wings are very tasty. So is the view.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> The talk of women and objective-izing, to shed some light on how it's monetized everywhere, not that I condone this/that.. .just made me think of why do restaurants generally use attractive women, attractively dressed, for hostesses that do the seating?
> 
> That's not by accident! And that's not the only example but just one that popped into mind because we've had a lot of restaurant gatherings as of late.


Oh, sure, women are exploited across many industries and jobs. My boss used to go out and find women to hire by talking to the gorgeous ones on the street and offering them a job, but he ended up getting burned about a dozen times and no longer does that. 

I will say it has changed a lot from how it was when I was young. And I will say even when I worked at a restaurant in the early 70s, our hostess wasn't any knockout. And the hostesses at my favorite place aren't either. They're not kids. But it's still done.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> I remember asking my ex about his porn use, he was extremely defensive and told me "All men did that", my expectations were unrealistic.


I cannot believe some of things I've been told I just had to accept because "all men do that." Strip clubs, lap dances, porn, ONS, leering at other women, buying drinks for other women... it's a catch-all excuse that essentially means "you don't deserve respect and if you demand it you won't get love."


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I cannot believe some of things I've been told I just had to accept because "all men do that." Strip clubs, lap dances, porn, ONS, leering at other women, buying drinks for other women... it's a catch-all excuse that essentially means "you don't deserve respect and if you demand it you won't get love."


Nah, all guys don't go to strip clubs. I don't disagree or automatically condemn those that do but it's not my cup of tea.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I cannot believe some of things I've been told I just had to accept because "all men do that." Strip clubs, lap dances, porn, ONS, leering at other women, buying drinks for other women... it's a catch-all excuse that essentially means "you don't deserve respect and if you demand it you won't get love."


I agree completely. saying "all men do that" is a copout answer in order for one man to do what he wants as opposed to respecting the thoughts and feelings of his partner.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Ethics aside, pornography like Prostitution is never going away. It has too big of a demand by men and the pay is pretty good for women. As long as any transaction is consensual, I have no problem with it being legal. You can call it exploitation or degrading, but if an adult freely chooses to partake in an activity, who really is being degraded or exploited?

Is it really any more exploitative than various other vices in society? Social Media is a far greater evil than some dude fapping to MILFs cuz he can't get any. If you want to outlaw porn then outlaw social media. Let's then see the gender divide.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Nah, all guys don't go to strip clubs. I don't disagree or automatically condemn those that do but it's not my cup of tea.


I don't condemn them, I simply don't want to associate with them. Similarly to how I avoid cheaters like the plague.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> I don't condemn them, I simply don't want to associate with them. Similarly to how I avoid cheaters like the plague.


I definitely condemn their behavior and I also don't hang out with them.😉


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

minimalME said:


> It's not good for women or children or society.
> 
> Men (in general) will defend pornography just like they've defended prostitution and adultery in the past.
> 
> ...


I think adultery is more accepted than ever actually. The only thing that has changed is society is more accepting of adultress women now. Adultery isn't accepted on TAM or SI because alot of that is for people coping with the hurt. Adultery is fiction until its at your front door. 

But for the majority, society is a skin factory and anything goes. Shoving sexual organs into the intestinal tract is now normalized. Ride the carousal in your 20s then settle down with a nice Beta at 30 and start pumping out the next gen. Then get bored and find that long lost alpha. There is always another man waiting to fill a hole and a woman needing attention.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> How many women got all off into and all hot and bothered reading Shades of Grey...


Hm, interesting. 

This storyline… Fifty Shades. It’s a kajillionaire man who is obsessive, stalking, controlling, and chooses his (victims) **** buddies as subordinates for “S&M” because they look like his mom and he wishes to screw and punish his mommy. He is so devastatingly handsome, and oh so damaged and just looking for the right woman to fix him. I considered it more of a comedic venture, albeit inadvertently. 

As far as women getting turned on by this? Hm. I guess they could use their imagination and pretend they are the female “heroine” in many of these kinds of books. I’m not sure if that’s the same as watching porn. Placing one’s self in the thoughts and story with some sexual occurrences happening is more about the romance for most women, not the sex scenes. I think like watching princess movies as children, with the happily ever after, women tend to crave the romance. The sexual interludes in the story are an expression of that, kind of like watching chick flicks. Which is why I see it differently than porn. Porn IS the sex, books are the romance (though there is some funky stuff out there in self publishing land I will say). Each might have some elements of the other but I don’t really see them as the same thing.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Ethics aside, pornography like Prostitution is never going away. It has too big of a demand by men and the pay is pretty good for women. As long as any transaction is consensual, I have no problem with it being legal. You can call it exploitation or degrading, but if an adult freely chooses to partake in an activity, who really is being degraded or exploited?
> 
> Is it really any more exploitative than various other vices in society? Social Media is a far greater evil than some dude fapping to MILFs cuz he can't get any. If you want to outlaw porn then outlaw social media. Let's then see the gender divide.


Same can be said for slavery which is at a very high level right now.

But, some of these things are not like the others.

Derp zen might try to convince himself that everything is about the same and good and evil don't really exist but I guarantee his foggy brain would clear up pretty quickly for him to tell the difference between his butt being plundered for gay porn, which is very lucrative BTW, and selling cigarettes in a smoke shop.

🎶One of these things is not like the other 🎶


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Same can be said for slavery which is at a very high level right now.
> 
> But, some of these things are not like the others.
> 
> ...


Slavery isn't consensual, that's the difference. The only chance of exploitation in a consensual transaction is stupid people that don't understand the worth of their goods.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

QuietRiot said:


> Hm, interesting.
> 
> This storyline… Fifty Shades. It’s a kajillionaire man who is obsessive, stalking, controlling, and chooses his (victims) **** buddies as subordinates for “S&M” because they look like his mom and he wishes to screw and punish his mommy. He is so devastatingly handsome, and oh so damaged and just looking for the right woman to fix him. I considered it more of a comedic venture, albeit inadvertently.
> 
> As far as women getting turned on by this? Hm. I guess they could use their imagination and pretend they are the female “heroine” in many of these kinds of books. I’m not sure if that’s the same as watching porn. Placing one’s self in the thoughts and story with some sexual occurrences happening is more about the romance for most women, not the sex scenes. I think like watching princess movies as children, with the happily ever after, women tend to crave the romance. The sexual interludes in the story are an expression of that, kind of like watching chick flicks. Which is why I see it differently than porn. Porn IS the sex, books are the romance (though there is some funky stuff out there in self publishing land I will say). Each might have some elements of the other but I don’t really see them as the same thing.


I never read the books or watched the movies either, I think the premise is stupid and the writing is insipid (sampled a few pages on Amazon). The books are alsp based on fan fiction for a stupid teeny bopper movie series (Twilight) which was interesting, considering how different both movies are.

Never understood the appeal of fantasizing about some rich abusive sicko.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Slavery isn't consensual, that's the difference. The only chance of exploitation in a consensual transaction is stupid people that don't understand the worth of their goods.


Just pointing out that throwing a bunch of different things in the same basket does not make them comparable.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> I never read the books or watched the movies either, I think the premise is stupid and the writing is insipid (sampled a few pages on Amazon). The books are alsp based on fan fiction for a stupid teeny bopper movie series (Twilight) which was interesting, considering how different both movies are.
> 
> Never understood the appeal of fantasizing about some rich abusive sicko.


I think 50 shades of grey is just a popular example. I think it's more in reference to romance (sex) novels in general. Why it turns women on I have no idea, all I know is if my wife starts reading one of those things, I have a 100% scoring possibility.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> I never read the books or watched the movies either, I think the premise is stupid and the writing is insipid (sampled a few pages on Amazon). The books are alsp based on fan fiction for a stupid teeny bopper movie series (Twilight) which was interesting, considering how different both movies are.
> 
> Never understood the appeal of fantasizing about some rich abusive sicko.


I think that’s the point, fantasy or considering something as romantic which in reality would never be feasible. The statistics on the self publishing side say that heterosexual, middle aged women are the biggest purveyors of gay male erotica books. I guess if I try hard enough I could make an argument that the women reading it are curious about male romance and eroticism aspect and wish to place themselves into that storyline for a time? Yet most of it is also written by heterosexual females. So… I think maybe they are just looking for the escape, the daydream, the fantasy of someone else’s life. It’s a bit voyeuristic maybe? 

Is that the same as pornography? Maybe. I just don’t think so.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> I never read the books or watched the movies either, I think the premise is stupid and the writing is insipid (sampled a few pages on Amazon). The books are alsp based on fan fiction for a stupid teeny bopper movie series (Twilight) which was interesting, considering how different both movies are.
> 
> Never understood the appeal of fantasizing about some rich abusive sicko.


I tried to read it too. The writing is abysmal. I mean to be fair, I’m not brave enough to submit anything for publishing so good for her. But it’s so bad.

It’s a lot like the Twilight franchise in the way it’s beyond creepy with the stalking. Blech.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> I think that’s the point, fantasy or considering something as romantic which in reality would never be feasible. The statistics on the self publishing side say that heterosexual, middle aged women are the biggest purveyors of gay male erotica books. I guess if I try hard enough I could make an argument that the women reading it are curious about male romance and eroticism aspect and wish to place themselves into that storyline for a time? Yet most of it is also written by heterosexual females. So… I think maybe they are just looking for the escape, the daydream, the fantasy of someone else’s life. It’s a bit voyeuristic maybe?
> 
> Is that the same as pornography? Maybe. I just don’t think so.


Maybe it's like reading playboy for the articles ? (jk nobody does this)


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Hm, interesting.
> 
> This storyline… Fifty Shades. It’s a kajillionaire man who is obsessive, stalking, controlling, and chooses his (victims) **** buddies as subordinates for “S&M” because they look like his mom and he wishes to screw and punish his mommy. He is so devastatingly handsome, and oh so damaged and just looking for the right woman to fix him. I considered it more of a comedic venture, albeit inadvertently.
> 
> As far as women getting turned on by this? Hm. I guess they could use their imagination and pretend they are the female “heroine” in many of these kinds of books. I’m not sure if that’s the same as watching porn. Placing one’s self in the thoughts and story with some sexual occurrences happening is more about the romance for most women, not the sex scenes. I think like watching princess movies as children, with the happily ever after, women tend to crave the romance. The sexual interludes in the story are an expression of that, kind of like watching chick flicks. Which is why I see it differently than porn. Porn IS the sex, books are the romance (though there is some funky stuff out there in self publishing land I will say). Each might have some elements of the other but I don’t really see them as the same thing.


So lines like this from 50 shades are about the romance and not the sex?

_“I pull him deeper into my mouth so I can feel him at the back of my throat and then to the front again. My tongue swirls around the end. He’s my very own Christian Grey-flavored popsicle. I suck harder and harder … Hmm … My inner goddess is doing the merengue with some salsa moves.”_

Sounds like straight up porn to me. I've even read articles about women complaining that the romance in the series detracts from the sexual fantasy. Sounds to me like it is being used a bit like porn.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> So lines like this from 50 shades are about the romance and not the sex?
> 
> _“I pull him deeper into my mouth so I can feel him at the back of my throat and then to the front again. My tongue swirls around the end. He’s my very own Christian Grey-flavored popsicle. I suck harder and harder … Hmm … My inner goddess is doing the merengue with some salsa moves.”_
> 
> Sounds like straight up porn to me. I've even read articles about women complaining that the romance in the series detracts from the sexual fantasy. Sounds to me like it is being used a bit like porn.


Whatever floats someone‘s boat.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

QuietRiot said:


> I think that’s the point, fantasy or considering something as romantic which in reality would never be feasible. The statistics on the self publishing side say that heterosexual, middle aged women are the biggest purveyors of gay male erotica books. I guess if I try hard enough I could make an argument that the women reading it are curious about male romance and eroticism aspect and wish to place themselves into that storyline for a time? Yet most of it is also written by heterosexual females. So… I think maybe they are just looking for the escape, the daydream, the fantasy of someone else’s life. It’s a bit voyeuristic maybe?
> 
> Is that the same as pornography? Maybe. I just don’t think so.


I guess I simply can't understand that because I'd find it incredibly frustrating, unproductive and pointless. I felt the same about porn and dumped it entirely. 

What's the point in warning up the cannon if you can't fire in the hole?? Do some people really enjoy suffering?


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> So lines like this from 50 shades are about the romance and not the sex?
> 
> _“I pull him deeper into my mouth so I can feel him at the back of my throat and then to the front again. My tongue swirls around the end. He’s my very own Christian Grey-flavored popsicle. I suck harder and harder … Hmm … My inner goddess is doing the merengue with some salsa moves.”_
> 
> Sounds like straight up porn to me. I've even read articles about women complaining that the romance in the series detracts from the sexual fantasy. Sounds to me like it is being used a bit like porn.


BigDaddy, while you do make a very good point here, I am more interested in knowing how you know about these quotes from the book. 🤣


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> What's the point in warning up the cannon if you can't fire in the hole??


🤣🤣🤣🤣

I don't know where you get your material, but damn..... I will be sitting at my desk and be laughing my ass off.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> So lines like this from 50 shades are about the romance and not the sex?
> 
> _“I pull him deeper into my mouth so I can feel him at the back of my throat and then to the front again. My tongue swirls around the end. He’s my very own Christian Grey-flavored popsicle. I suck harder and harder … Hmm … My inner goddess is doing the merengue with some salsa moves.”_
> 
> Sounds like straight up porn to me. I've even read articles about women complaining that the romance in the series detracts from the sexual fantasy. Sounds to me like it is being used a bit like porn.


Women like to read their porn. Men like to watch their porn. I doubt the wives reading this stuff are thinking of their husbands doing this S&M stuff to them! hahaha


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

LATERILUS79 said:


> 🤣🤣🤣🤣
> 
> I don't know where you get your material, but damn..... I will be sitting at my desk and be laughing my ass off.


It's been a rough few weeks, I don't have the patience to beat around the bush (Giggity!). You got the point though...


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Women like to read their porn. Men like to watch their porn. I doubt the wives reading this stuff are thinking of their husbands doing this S&M stuff to them! hahaha


Now this right here might be the deal. Why the heck can't people just talk about this stuff? Then we'd all be much more happlily screwin' instead of viewin' and mewin'

I remember asking my ex about some specific stuff I was interested in, the man didn't touch me again. It wasn't even particularly freaky, dude was too much of a prude. He wouldn't even walk around naked.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> Now this right here might be the deal. Why the heck can't people just talk about this stuff? Then we'd all be much more happlily screwin' instead of viewin' and mewin'
> 
> I remember asking my ex about some specific stuff I was interested in, the man didn't touch me again. It wasn't even particularly freaky, dude was too much of a prude. He wouldn't even walk around naked.


I'm not sure it's that. I think these wives don't won't their husbands doing this stuff to them. They apparently want some shady alpha prick with mommy issues doing it to them.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> Now this right here might be the deal. Why the heck can't people just talk about this stuff? Then we'd all be much more happlily screwin' instead of viewin' and mewin'
> 
> I remember asking my ex about some specific stuff I was interested in, the man didn't touch me again. It wasn't even particularly freaky, dude was too much of a prude. He wouldn't even walk around naked.


Maybe he was too embarrassed to admit his arthritis hurt too much to make a fist.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I'm not sure it's that. I think these wives don't won't their husbands doing this stuff to them. They apparently want some shady alpha prick with mommy issues doing it to them.


But why though? I'm a woman and I can't understand the mindset behind pining for something and not asking for it.

Have their husbands simply never done these things? I know mine didn't, he has very specific ideas about sex and his reaction to my requests was interesting. Quite frankly it got boring, maybe that's why I accepted sexlesssness for so long.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Mr.Married said:


> Maybe he was too embarrassed to admit his arthritis hurt too much to make a fist.


You have quite the imagination.


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> So lines like this from 50 shades are about the romance and not the sex?
> 
> _“I pull him deeper into my mouth so I can feel him at the back of my throat and then to the front again. My tongue swirls around the end. He’s my very own Christian Grey-flavored popsicle. I suck harder and harder … Hmm … My inner goddess is doing the merengue with some salsa moves.”_
> 
> Sounds like straight up porn to me. I've even read articles about women complaining that the romance in the series detracts from the sexual fantasy. Sounds to me like it is being used a bit like porn.


You’re taking one paragraph from an entire story. You don’t include the part where she is doing an interview, “falls“ into his office, is stunned by his good looks, there is a world building going on. Is there crappy sex scenes, absolutely, but they are part of the “greater story” of this virginal girl starting a life. And listen, I didn’t say it was GOOD literature, I just said it’s not the same to me as watching a porn video. Lol


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> You have quite the imagination.


Everything is bigger in Texas …. just saying.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> You have quite the imagination.


I'm afraid to comment...🤣🤣


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> But why though? I'm a woman and I can't understand the mindset behind pining for something and not asking for it.
> 
> Have their husbands simply never done these things? I know mine didn't, he has very specific ideas about sex and his reaction to my requests was interesting. Quite frankly it got boring, maybe that's why I accepted sexlesssness for so long.


Can't make a Kitten into a Lion.


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> I guess I simply can't understand that because I'd find it incredibly frustrating, unproductive and pointless. I felt the same about porn and dumped it entirely.
> 
> What's the point in warning up the cannon if you can't fire in the hole?? Do some people really enjoy suffering?


Yes, lots of people enjoy pointless suffering and are uncomfortable without it I’d say! 

Im with you on this. I prefer good literature that makes me contemplate and consider, not these types of things. But I will see what all the talk is about because I’m a curious person. So I did read Twilight, and Fifty shades, and a lot of even worse things. Didn’t do anything for me but was very enlightening.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Can't make a Kitten into a Lion.


You spelled both wh0re and housewife incorrectly


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I'm not sure it's that. I think these wives don't won't their husbands doing this stuff to them. They apparently want some shady alpha prick with mommy issues doing it to them.


I don’t think they “want it” they just want to momentarily imagine it. I don’t think any healthy person would want that kind of man, but perhaps they want to contemplate… what it might feel like for a time? That’s my guess. 

Do you think it’s the same as watching pornography?


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Mr.Married said:


> Maybe he was too embarrassed to admit his arthritis hurt too much to make a fist.


Maybe you should write the next erotica novel of our age. 🤣


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> I don’t think they “want it” they just want to momentarily imagine it.


Like most fantasies, the reality is going to be a disappointment. In reality, it will involve people, who are fallible and motivated by their own desires, as well as consequences. What makes fantasy so great is that it is easily controlled. The real world is messier.


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> Now this right here might be the deal. Why the heck can't people just talk about this stuff? Then we'd all be much more happlily screwin' instead of viewin' and mewin'
> 
> I remember asking my ex about some specific stuff I was interested in, the man didn't touch me again. It wasn't even particularly freaky, dude was too much of a prude. He wouldn't even walk around naked.


You’re a modern day poet. So much literature to be had from this thread. True artistry.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Mr.Married said:


> You spelled both wh0re and housewife incorrectly


Oh, I thought he meant manbaby to man.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> Maybe you should write the next erotica novel of our age. 🤣


I’m much better at throwing out random and worthless insensitivities with little to no added value to the thread topic. That’s my niche.


----------



## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> What's the point in warning up the cannon if you can't fire in the hole??


@QuietRiot, I want to hire both you and TXTrini to write my Christmas letters. (Kidding...I don't do Christmas letters, but if you two wrote them for me I would. 🤣.)


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> Oh, I thought he meant manbaby to man.


I did. Not really a man baby, but that could be an interpretation. Maybe she's doesn't want him to view her that way... Maybe her husband is classic beta, she didn't marry him for his sexual prowess. And trying to engage with him that way, wouldn't be natural... Plus, nothing kills passion like a good ol fashion wedding!


----------



## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> I’m much better at throwing out random and worthless insensitivities with little to no added value to the thread topic. That’s my niche.


You are gifted, sir. ☺


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I did. Not really a man baby, but that could be an interpretation. Maybe she's doesn't want him to view her that way... Maybe her husband is classic beta, she didn't marry him for his sexual prowess. And trying to engage with him that way, wouldn't be natural... Plus, nothing kills passion like a good ol fashion wedding!


I was one of those idiots who looked forward to sex in marriage and being able to explore. It's really sad not to explored your full potential, especially if you choose each other to share a life.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> You spelled both wh0re and housewife incorrectly


Spellcheck. Just another service he offers. 😉🤣🤣🤣😊


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Spellcheck. Just another service he offers. 😉🤣🤣🤣😊


A true philanthropist!


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Twodecades said:


> You are gifted, sir. ☺


I have a reputation to maintain.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Spellcheck. Just another service he offers. 😉🤣🤣🤣😊


Being born and raised in south Louisiana my ignorance, bad grammar, poor choice of words, and otherwise butchered use of the English language all comes with a very good excuse.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> BigDaddy, while you do make a very good point here, I am more interested in knowing how you know about these quotes from the book. 🤣


That is a secret that can only be revealed in the Red Room, lol. 

Seriously though, I have a habit of digging into things when I get curious. Going down this particular rabbit hole started when my wife and 3 friends went together to see the first movie while me and the other husbands hung out and had some beers. All the women were quite giddy when they got back and ready to go home, if you know what I mean. A couple month later just prior to the sequel coming out we watched the original movie at home together. She wanted to catchup and remember what happened in the first movie. She said that with a very naughty grin on her face. We spent more time having sex than watching the movie. That was enough for me to see what it was all about and also how many sequels there were going to be, lol. 

Bottom line is those books and any movie based on those books are in reality porn. Their primary purpose, maybe sole purpose, is to sexually excite the consumer. Frankly I don't care. I wasn't worried that my wife was subconsciously putting Christian's face on mine. She appeared to by fully in the present with me at the time. And my wife isn't a hypocrite that says this is okay but what you watch isn't okay. Therefore, no problem in my eyes.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> I was one of those idiots who looked forward to sex in marriage and being able to explore. It's really sad not to explored your full potential, especially if you choose each other to share a life.


I'm with you there, I looked forward to stretching and exploring sex boundaries with W from the beginning. 
I had and still have bunches of ideas, we'll continue on through the list. My list and hers.

Good thing we both have a good sense of humor. Great fun still.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I'm with you there, I looked forward to stretching and exploring sex boundaries with W from the beginning.
> I had and still have bunches of ideas, we'll continue on through the list. My list and hers.
> 
> Good thing we both have a good sense of humor. Great fun still.


It's wonderful to see that's still possible and some people have that, thank you for sharing.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> It's wonderful to see that's still possible and some people have that, thank you for sharing.


Ragnar is a sexual deviant. I would wear a hazmat suit if I was ever invited over to his house!


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> You’re taking one paragraph from an entire story. You don’t include the part where she is doing an interview, “falls“ into his office, is stunned by his good looks, there is a world building going on. Is there crappy sex scenes, absolutely, but they are part of the “greater story” of this virginal girl starting a life. And listen, I didn’t say it was GOOD literature, I just said it’s not the same to me as watching a porn video. Lol


Think of that paragraph like one of the sex scene clips on PornHub. They never show the whole movie, they just cut to the chase and pull out what they think you want to masturbate with. If you watch a full porno movie, I mean an actually movie there is are lots of crappy story to them too. Some are actually quite proud of the story line. 50 shades is just a porno that you read cover to cover or have seen from beginning to end. I just fast forwarded you to one of the self pleasure opportunities, lol.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Divinely Favored said:


> It is funny to me that there are a lot of women who have fits about porn, that have no issue with books like Shades of Grey. I consider them the same thing.


When porn discussions like this come up, the topic of women reading these types of books almost always comes up. There is a difference, however. Apparently about 99.999% of men use porn. But only about 25% of women have ever even read those types of books.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Ragnar is a sexual deviant. I would wear a hazmat suit if I was ever invited over to his house!


Better follow the science and wear two!

You'll never know it all......😉🤣🤣🤣


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Think of that paragraph like one of the sex scene clips on PornHub. They never show the whole movie, they just cut to the chase and pull out what they think you want to masturbate with. If you watch a full porno movie, I mean an actually movie there is are lots of crappy story to them too. Some are actually quite proud of the story line. 50 shades is just a porno that you read cover to cover or have seen from beginning to end. I just fast forwarded you to one of the self pleasure opportunities, lol.


There are some very clever porn movies. Some are just straight up sex scenes with no plot that end up as clips on pornhub. Others are comedic masterpieces that I would watch for the entertainment value alone.


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Think of that paragraph like one of the sex scene clips on PornHub. They never show the whole movie, they just cut to the chase and pull out what they think you want to masturbate with. If you watch a full porno movie, I mean an actually movie there is are lots of crappy story to them too. Some are actually quite proud of the story line. 50 shades is just a porno that you read cover to cover or have seen from beginning to end. I just fast forwarded you to one of the self pleasure opportunities, lol.


Maybe some women do use it as a kind of pornography, if so it’s **** pornography. The 3 minutes of “story” before genitalia rubbing in a true porn is not going to cut it as a romance story… I can’t put them in the same category. Besides the point, this is fake. Fiction. People penetrating eachother in a video is very very real. There is a difference between reality and imagination… do we call Avatar alien porn because the the intertwining of tail feathers? Where is the line?

Personally I made it through about 30 minutes of bad acting and faux smoldering eyes in Fifty Shades before turning the channel. I guess if I wanted to watch a porno, I’d go watch one. Not some badly written and acted script and fake bumping and grinding. The books did nothing for me either, it was an excursion of curiosity… and the writing sucked. But I guess if someone really wanted to, they could get off on it, but there are also people that get off on watching women put on heels and step on people. Where is the line? I see porn as videos of real people having sex, real sex. Not a cinematic representation of it for artistic (or attempt at artistic) interpretation of a story.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> There are some very clever porn movies. Some are just straight up sex scenes with no plot that end up as clips on pornhub. Others are comedic masterpieces that I would watch for the entertainment value alone.


I did do a search once on Downton Abbey. Yep, that's been done as a movie. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Maybe some women do use it as a kind of pornography, if so it’s **** pornography. The 3 minutes of “story” before genitalia rubbing in a true porn is not going to cut it as a romance story… I can’t put them in the same category. Besides the point, this is fake. Fiction. People penetrating eachother in a video is very very real. There is a difference between reality and imagination… do we call Avatar alien porn because the the intertwining of tail feathers? Where is the line?
> 
> Personally I made it through about 30 minutes of bad acting and faux smoldering eyes in Fifty Shades before turning the channel. I guess if I wanted to watch a porno, I’d go watch one. Not some badly written and acted script and fake bumping and grinding. The books did nothing for me either, it was an excursion of curiosity… and the writing sucked. But I guess if someone really wanted to, they could get off on it, but there are also people that get off on watching women put on heels and step on people. Where is the line? I see porn as videos of real people having sex, real sex. Not a cinematic representation of it for artistic (or attempt at artistic) interpretation of a story.


You went there.

Avatar.

I have to admit, that is the first thing I thought of when I saw that movie.

am I just witnessing alien porn? When they plug their hair into another animal’s orif….. I mean, the other animal’s receptacle plug, are they now doing it?

glad to know I’m not the only one that thought that.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

LATERILUS79 said:


> You went there.
> 
> Avatar.
> 
> ...


I thought Avatar too. And x-men....the blue woman.

GOT at times.


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> You went there.
> 
> Avatar.
> 
> ...


Let’s not talk about the animals they are then “riding” with the intertwined “feather” thingies… and then we are doing it with trees? Yeah, too many layers to that onion to peel. 😬


----------



## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

And to think, I wasn't sure if this thread would get many responses...🤔


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Twodecades said:


> And to think, I wasn't sure if this thread would get many responses...🤔


What’s the equivalent of thirst trap for a thread? 🤔


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Maybe some women do use it as a kind of pornography, if so it’s **** pornography. The 3 minutes of “story” before genitalia rubbing in a true porn is not going to cut it as a romance story… I can’t put them in the same category. Besides the point, this is fake. Fiction. People penetrating eachother in a video is very very real. There is a difference between reality and imagination… do we call Avatar alien porn because the the intertwining of tail feathers? Where is the line?
> 
> Personally I made it through about 30 minutes of bad acting and faux smoldering eyes in Fifty Shades before turning the channel. I guess if I wanted to watch a porno, I’d go watch one. Not some badly written and acted script and fake bumping and grinding. The books did nothing for me either, it was an excursion of curiosity… and the writing sucked. But I guess if someone really wanted to, they could get off on it, but there are also people that get off on watching women put on heels and step on people. Where is the line? I see porn as videos of real people having sex, real sex. Not a cinematic representation of it for artistic (or attempt at artistic) interpretation of a story.


Comparisons of romance novels to PornHub have a "whataboutism" feel to them, IMO. It's men saying "it's ok that we do _this_ because look, here's a thing you guys do and I'm hereby declaring it the same."

Shooting a bullet vs throwing it. Also, I can tell you with total certainty that there are zero people harmed while I write. Some brain cells may die from wine, but that's it. Not the same. At all.

ETA: Everyone calm down, not ALL men say this. I don't mean to imply that ALL men say anything. There are men in the world (and on this thread) who say it's the same thing, and I am offering my opinion, which I am allowed to have, on this thread as part of a discussion with specific people. So everyone simmer down. If you just can't keep the ants out of your pants, report it.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> What’s the equivalent of thirst trap for a thread? 🤔


Mention porn, peens, or boobs. 

What else? Other things?


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Comparisons of romance novels to PornHub have a "whataboutism" feel to them, IMO. It's men saying "it's ok that we do _this_ because look, here's a thing you guys do and I'm hereby declaring it the same."
> 
> Shooting a bullet vs throwing it. Also, I can tell you with total certainty that there are zero people harmed while I write. Some brain cells may die from wine, but that's it. Not the same. At all.
> 
> ETA: Everyone calm down, not ALL men say this. I don't mean to imply that ALL men say anything. There are men in the world (and on this thread) who say it's the same thing, and I am offering my opinion, which I am allowed to have, on this thread as part of a discussion with specific people. So everyone simmer down. If you just can't keep the ants out of your pants, report it.


I like how you have a disclaimer like in the movies.

***No males have been harmed in the making of this post, all words were complied with a male safety expert and medical professional specializing in male genitalia on site at the time of writing.


----------



## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Mention porn, peens, or boobs.
> 
> What else? Other things?


BJs, squirting, cheating, prostitution...


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Twodecades said:


> BJs, squirting, cheating, prostitution...


Something about the word “squirt” makes my stomach turn.


----------



## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Something about the word “squirt” makes my stomach turn.


Is it like the word, "moist"?


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Twodecades said:


> Is it like the word, "moist"?


Yes but worse, squirt is… projectile.


----------



## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> What’s the equivalent of thirst trap for a thread? 🤔


Seriously, though, what is that Barenaked Ladies' refrain? "It's all been done...it's all been done...before."


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> I like how you have a disclaimer like in the movies.
> 
> ****No males have been harmed in the making of this post, all words were complied with a male safety expert and medical professional specializing in male genitalia on site at the time of writing.*


I need to just make this my signature.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Yes but worse, squirt is… projectile.


It's airborne moistness.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Comparisons of romance novels to PornHub have a "whataboutism" feel to them, IMO. It's men saying "it's ok that we do _this_ because look, here's a thing you guys do and I'm hereby declaring it the same."
> 
> Shooting a bullet vs throwing it. Also, I can tell you with total certainty that there are zero people harmed while I write. Some brain cells may die from wine, but that's it. Not the same. At all.
> 
> ETA: Everyone calm down, not ALL men say this. I don't mean to imply that ALL men say anything. There are men in the world (and on this thread) who say it's the same thing, and I am offering my opinion, which I am allowed to have, on this thread as part of a discussion with specific people. So everyone simmer down. If you just can't keep the ants out of your pants, report it.


I think comparing the throwing vs shooting of a bullet to the spectrum of porn is apt comparison. I think there are many movies that are porn, just softcore. I remember a series of Emmanuelle movies. They were softcore French porn movies they would show on Cinemax or something like that. No question in my mind they are porn, but definitely softcore by comparison.


I realize that there is less likelihood of trafficking and exploitation in those softcore and more mainstream movies, so there is that aspect of it. However, if that isn't your main issue with porn and you still don't think your spouse should be looking at porn, where do you draw the line? If he is masturbating to a fully clothed woman in a Macy's catalog, is that okay? What about in a bikini or cute panties? What about CG or non-real nudity and porn? Or is any form masturbatorial visual aid off limits?


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Comparisons of romance novels to PornHub have a "whataboutism" feel to them, IMO. It's men saying "it's ok that we do _this_ because look, here's a thing you guys do and I'm hereby declaring it the same."
> 
> Shooting a bullet vs throwing it. Also, I can tell you with total certainty that there are zero people harmed while I write. Some brain cells may die from wine, but that's it. Not the same. At all.
> 
> ETA: Everyone calm down, not ALL men say this. I don't mean to imply that ALL men say anything. There are men in the world (and on this thread) who say it's the same thing, and I am offering my opinion, which I am allowed to have, on this thread as part of a discussion with specific people. So everyone simmer down. If you just can't keep the ants out of your pants, report it.


Maybe not the same. But why are men drawn to porn overwhelmingly while women not much so. Obviously there is a component women are missing from their DNA that doesn't allow enjoyment of this type of frivolity. Same with football and fart jokes...


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Twodecades said:


> BJs, squirting, cheating, prostitution...


I forgot butts. My favorite on women. And legs.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Maybe not the same. But why are men drawn to porn overwhelmingly while women not much so. Obviously there is a component women are missing from their DNA that doesn't allow enjoyment of this type of frivolity. Same with football and fart jokes...


I would say it's Testosterone. It biologically drives men differently and in a way that women simply cannot comprehend...however they are very willing to judge them for it.

And for the record, I LOVE football!!


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> I would say it's Testosterone. It biologically drives men differently and in a way that women simply cannot comprehend...however they are very willing to judge them for it.
> 
> And for the record, I LOVE football!!


Yeah... I think the true test is...but would you watch football alone? All the women I know are social football watchers... like they will only watch with friends, but if they are alone they will watch Lifetime or whatever women like to watch..


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> I remember asking my ex about some specific stuff I was interested in, the man didn't touch me again. It wasn't even particularly freaky, dude was too much of a prude. He wouldn't even walk around naked.


There are lot of men married to female version of your ex. One guys wife told him if he wanted a bj it wasnt going to be from her, told him just divorce if that was what he wanted. For these guys, all that asking produces is more rejection.

So, they turn to porn as the only “game” in town.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> But why are men drawn to porn overwhelmingly while women not much so.


If this is a serious question, I think because for men (IN GENERAL, everyone CALM DOWN) the act itself is the main event, whereas for women (IN GENERAL, I certainly would never presume to speak for all women, again, everyone CALM DOWN), it's less about the destination than the journey. There is no romance in porn (IN GENERAL, ffs), it's usually just the guy is fixing the copier and BAM! **** and balls flapping. But in a romance novel, there is a LOT that leads up to the sex, including references to things like feelings, love, respect, all that stuff that isn't really in porn (IN GENERAL FOR THE LOVE SIMMER DOWN). 

(Extra commentary is not directed at you, Upsidedown. I have to police what I say so the He-Man Woman Haters Club doesn't freak out. 😂)


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> I would say it's Testosterone. It biologically drives men differently and in a way that women simply cannot comprehend...however they are very willing to judge them for it.
> 
> And for the record, I LOVE football!!


Women have T. And it makes a big difference in their drive too


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Yeah... I think the true test is...but would you watch football alone? All the women I know are social football watchers... like they will only watch with friends, but if they are alone they will watch Lifetime or whatever women like to watch..


I watch alone ALL the time. I even watch the highlights on NFL Primetime at 11:30pm Sunday nights. 

I have my favorite teams, and then my second favorites that I root for. I used to post on a football forum just because I loved reading all the thoughts and opinions that people on there had about the games too.

I will admit that I don't understand all the nuances of how plays are called (especially on Defense), but I love watching to see if I can figure it all out, and I love the explosiveness of the plays at times!


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If this is a serious question, I think because for men (IN GENERAL, everyone CALM DOWN) the act itself is the main event, whereas for women (IN GENERAL, I certainly would never presume to speak for all women, again, everyone CALM DOWN), it's less about the destination than the journey. There is no romance in porn (IN GENERAL, ffs), it's usually just the guy is fixing the copier and BAM! **** and balls flapping. But in a romance novel, there is a LOT that leads up to the sex, including references to things like feelings, love, respect, all that stuff that isn't really in porn (IN GENERAL FOR THE LOVE SIMMER DOWN).
> 
> (Extra commentary is not directed at you, Upsidedown. I have to police what I say so the He-Man Woman Haters Club doesn't freak out. 😂)


I'd fastforward through all that love, respect stuff and go straight to the ball flapping. Point made.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> Women have T. And it makes a big difference in their drive too


Right. And not nearly as much as men...just like men have some Estrogen as well. But the balance for each gender is different, and has a powerful effect on mood, attitude, sex drive, mental drive, etc, depending on the levels.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> I would say it's Testosterone. It biologically drives men differently and in a way that women simply cannot comprehend...however they are very willing to judge them for it.


I think this basically what I was fishing for. Since women can't understand the sex drive of a typical male, it seems a lockdown on porn is rather harsh in marriage. I mean there are always some dry spells...might last weeks. "I promise I won't watch porn even if my balls feel like they are about to explode"...wink wink. It's like a don't ask, don't tell situation. Now we are in sketchy half truths territory.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> It's like a don't ask, don't tell situation.


Been doing this for 15 years. I own a mirror, so I just don't ask.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If this is a serious question, I think because for men (IN GENERAL, everyone CALM DOWN) the act itself is the main event, whereas for women (IN GENERAL, I certainly would never presume to speak for all women, again, everyone CALM DOWN), it's less about the destination than the journey. There is no romance in porn (IN GENERAL, ffs), it's usually just the guy is fixing the copier and BAM! **** and balls flapping. But in a romance novel, there is a LOT that leads up to the sex, including references to things like feelings, love, respect, all that stuff that isn't really in porn (IN GENERAL FOR THE LOVE SIMMER DOWN).
> 
> (Extra commentary is not directed at you, Upsidedown. I have to police what I say so the He-Man Woman Haters Club doesn't freak out. 😂)


You have full rights to my disclaimer. Feel free to use it! 

Let those balls flap away.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> You have full rights to my disclaimer. Feel free to use it!
> 
> Let those balls flap away.


Sometimes a little ball flapping is just what you need. Not always, but sometimes.

I'd use it, but you KNOW they'd report it. I'd have to take it down.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I think this basically what I was fishing for. Since women can't understand the sex drive of a typical male, it seems a lockdown on porn is rather harsh in marriage. I mean there are always some dry spells...might last weeks. "I promise I won't watch porn even if my balls feel like they are about to explode"...wink wink. It's like a don't ask, don't tell situation. Now we are in sketchy half truths territory.


I can understand that.

But what if there are never any dry spells and you are with a woman who never says No to sex with you? Do you still feel an interest in watching porn?

I think some men won't, but MANY will. Because sometimes getting exactly what you want isn't satisfying, and you realize that the excitement was in the wanting, not the getting. I think that's human nature when it happens...and I will say it happens to men AND women, and about all kinds of things not just sex.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I think this basically what I was fishing for. Since women can't understand the sex drive of a typical male, it seems a lockdown on porn is rather harsh in marriage. I mean there are always some dry spells...might last weeks. "I promise I won't watch porn even if my balls feel like they are about to explode"...wink wink. It's like a don't ask, don't tell situation. Now we are in sketchy half truths territory.


Meh. I don’t buy it. I don’t starve the man I’m with for sex, but I don’t care for having him watch porn. Choose me and my real person, not watching other people doing the deed. That’s not cool to me.

I don’t know about other people’s sex habits or bedrooms, but I think a lot of men are getting laid regularly and just want to watch porn too, because they like to. Which, fine. But like someone said before, he won’t be with a woman that has an issue with it… well, I won’t be with a man who does it. That’s naturally kinda sorted itself out right? I won’t generalize as to why men or people do or do not like to watch it, but I don’t want it in my life. That’s just a personal choice. So… maybe the solution is having that conversation before things get serious. The boundaries and parameters.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> I can understand that.
> 
> But what if there are never any dry spells and you are with a woman who never says No to sex with you? Do you still feel an interest in watching porn?
> 
> I think some men won't, but MANY will. Because sometimes getting exactly what you want isn't satisfying, and you realize that the excitement was in the wanting, not the getting. I think that's human nature when it happens...and I will say it happens to men AND women, and about all kinds of things not just sex.


If there were never any dry spells then I'd be fine with no porn. But I think that is rare.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> If there were never any dry spells then I'd be fine with no porn. But I think that is rare.


Well, the dry spells can come from the man too (it did in my marriage). And there was never a time I refused my EX, never not once....and he still preferred porn over me. 

So again, I think sometimes even when we get what we want, there is something in us that craves more or different or new. And porn (and I agree, romance novels) provides that excitement.

And FYI....I have nothing against porn at all. I wouldn't mind my partner watching it, as long as he was willing and able to meet MY sexual needs first. I'm just not sure that I trust that would happen.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

I tried reading a trilogy back in the early 90s, it was erotica by Anne Rice. The sleeping beauty series. There was lots and lots of sex and a lot of S&M type subject matter in those books and it started off fast and hard and never slowed down. I made it about a third of the way through the first book and put it down. I got bored. Put some porn on in front of me though and I’m watching very closely but it’s more out of curiosity than anything else, it doesn’t turn me on but it’s definitely more entertaining.
I fully believe that men are just wired in such a way that women aren’t able to relate.
Reminds me of something my ex-boyfriend said during a conversation one night. If I were to ever fully let go in the bedroom I’m afraid of what I might do, he said. I can’t imagine a woman ever saying anything like that.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Rus47 said:


> Of course. Otherwise Hooters, Twin Peaks, etc wouldn’t survive. Never been in either, so maybe their food is best ever, what do I know?


Not to forget Bone Daddy's Bar-B-Q in Austin or Bombshell's.(AF/Army AC themed) from what I'm told. Never went in any of them.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

gameopoly5 said:


> Actually porn is perceived much differently by men than women.
> Other than gay porn In the majority of porn movies it is the women who are the main focus point, the men are simply there as part of the product as supposed pleasure makers for the woman that the emphasise is on. It`s not simply the sexual acts that turn the male viewers on, but rather a sadistic pleasure of seeing a woman degraded, abused and into stuff they know must be painful with the women seemingly getting pleasure out of being bodily abused and taking themselves down to animal levels, giving a semblance that it`s every woman`s fantasy to be raped and sexually abused. So in-fact porn is not all about sex but rather about abuse and sadism.
> Strangely, according to some surveys I have read, the number one favourite for women is lesbian porn. Perhaps the reason for this is that lesbian porn is gentler and more dignified then being sexually degraded by groups of men, which could be described as consensual rape.


Lol. WHAT????? 
b. S.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> Of course. Otherwise Hooters, Twin Peaks, etc wouldn’t survive. Never been in either, so maybe their food is best ever, what do I know?


I've never been to a Hooters restaurant, and I can't imagine agreeing to go eat there with a man (or as a family???). 

To me, it would feel just as uncomfortable as a strip club (which I've also never been to).

If there was a bar, where only men were waiters, and they wore something like a speedo to deliver cocktails, would heterosexual men go to a place like that? Would it not faze them at all? Would they genuinely have no problem if their wives wanted a drink at that specific place? 😳


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I think it’s odd that to tons of women/— porn bad......

but these same women feel it’s no big deal at all to use a vibrator and sexually starve their husbands. I don’t think the women that use those vibrators are thinking of their husbands when using them. I personally think if the porn is interfering with any aspect of the desire or romance or sex drive for their wives, men are super in the wrong for doing it. And it’s wrong period, but I digress. I’ve watched it before.

I think the same about vibrators and romance novels or porn for women..... if those are detracting from the same as above, they’re wrong too.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

minimalME said:


> I've never been to a Hooters restaurant, and I can't imagine agreeing to go eat there with a man (or as a family???).
> 
> To me, it would feel just as uncomfortable as a strip club (which I've also never been to).
> 
> If there was a bar, where only men were waiters, and they wore something like a speedo to deliver cocktails, would heterosexual men go to a place like that? Would it not faze them at all? Would they genuinely have no problem if their wives wanted a drink at that specific place? 😳


There’s women that go to strip clubs sometimes with other women or even bf’s. Same for the hooters and such. Just sayin.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> There’s women that go to strip clubs sometimes with other women or even bf’s. Same for the hooters and such. Just sayin.


Yes - I understand. But that doesn't answer my questions. 

If your wife got all excited at the thought of going (together would be acceptable, but it would have nothing to do with you, and she would be eyeing men's packages blatanly in front of you) to the bar I described, would you be fine with it? Would it not make you uncomfortable at all?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

minimalME said:


> they wore something like a speedo to deliver cocktails


If I went somewhere where all the men were decked out in banana hammocks, I would not be able to have a cocktail because I would not stop giggling. I'd barely be able to make jokes about The Tod, I'd be laughing so hard. Your point stands, but honestly, can you imagine? I wish this place DID exist so we could go, all that laughter would be a GREAT ab workout. Of course I'd feel awful if I hurt one of the guy's feelings. Then again, they're probably not any of them interested in women anyway so they likely wouldn't care... 🤣


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> I watch alone ALL the time. I even watch the highlights on NFL Primetime at 11:30pm Sunday nights.
> 
> I have my favorite teams, and then my second favorites that I root for. I used to post on a football forum just because I loved reading all the thoughts and opinions that people on there had about the games too.
> 
> I will admit that I don't understand all the nuances of how plays are called (especially on Defense), but I love watching to see if I can figure it all out, and I love the explosiveness of the plays at times!


When do you want to get married?


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Women hate porn and men love it. Can we close the thread now? 🤣


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> But what if there are never any dry spells and you are with a woman who never says No to sex with you?* Do you still feel an interest in watching porn?*


Wife and I have had many dry spells over the years. Health problems, childbirth, family crises ( death of parents ). Neither of us ever had any interest in reading, watching, looking at the stuff.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Rus47 said:


> Wife and I have had many dry spells over the years. Health problems, childbirth, family crises ( death of parents ). Neither of us ever had any interest in reading, watching, looking at the stuff.


I assume you either masturbated or had a cast iron will. I've never had success without some visual stimuli...my imagination just sucks I guess.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I cannot believe some of things I've been told I just had to accept because "all men do that." Strip clubs, lap dances, porn, ONS, leering at other women, buying drinks for other women... it's a catch-all excuse that essentially means "you don't deserve respect and if you demand it you won't get love."


All men do not do that. Alot of women these days think that though, and many use that excuse to justify their own bad behavior. 

I am glad I am not 23 again and on the market with all the crap that is going on out there. If I had a GF that used that excuse for poor behavior, I would have to tell her, "Well I am not "All Men" and it is too bad you did not figure that out sooner!" 

Hear so much of "goose/gander" and "all men do it" "men do it too" that there are so many girls that have that 304 phase be ause every body else is, and later wonder why the decent guys want nothing to do with them.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I assume you either masturbated or had a cast iron will. I've never had success without some visual stimuli...my imagination just sucks I guess.


Well, when there are health problems or family crises we were usually focused on getting through those. I promise you when we were down with Covid sex was the last thing on either of our minds. We were worried what we were going to do if one of us had to go into hospital with no spouse allowed. 

My wife has *never* turned me down nearing 60 years together. As far as success, all I have to do is recall the last time we were together. And after childbirth we weren't allowed PIV, but that didn't prevent us being close with one another.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> I think it’s odd that to tons of women/— porn bad......
> 
> but these same women feel it’s no big deal at all to use a vibrator and sexually starve their husbands.


I know you're talking generalizations, but I don't starve my husband for sex (quite the opposite), though I am against pornography. I can see why a husband would feel really angered by a wife that didn't care about his sexual needs yet expected him to have blue balls.

That's why I asked the questions I did at the start of this thread.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Twodecades said:


> I know you're talking generalizations, but I don't starve my husband for sex (quite the opposite), though I am against pornography. I can see why a husband would feel really angry by a wife that didn't care about his sexual needs yet expected him to have blue balls.
> 
> That's why I asked the questions I did at the start of this thread.


Are you against masturbation or just porn? I've never quite understood what the difference of men watching porn vs men using their imagination as porn? Unless you are just against porn because you feel someway that the women are mistreated.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Not said:


> Put some porn on in front of me though and I’m watching very closely but it’s more out of curiosity than anything else, it doesn’t turn me on but it’s definitely more entertaining.


I am turned on by porn and find it arousing. That's not why I don't use it. I think more women are aroused by it than most people think, though the ratio is probably male-heavy.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Are you against masturbation or just porn? I've never quite understood what the difference of men watching porn vs men using their imagination as porn? Unless you are just against porn because you feel someway that the women are mistreated.


Pornography. Erotic literature. Not masturbation, unless it takes away from the marital relationship. I feel like that's up to the couple. 

The pornography is mostly for faith-based reasons but also ethical ones. It's at odds with my libertarian side. I hate seeing people destroy themselves, yet I'm also loathe to take away anyone's choices/liberty without just cause. People should have the right to choose how they want to live. I'm conflicted.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

RebuildingMe said:


> Women hate porn and men love it. Can we close the thread now? 🤣


You can request it. Won't hurt my feelings. I'm honestly surprised it has made it to 16 pages. I don't care for people fighting or being rude, but I also don't care if it goes off on tangents or if it gets locked. It's been an interesting (to me) discussion.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> All men do not do that. Alot of women these days think that though, and many use that excuse to justify their own bad behavior.
> 
> I am glad I am not 23 again and on the market with all the crap that is going on out there. If I had a GF that used that excuse for poor behavior, I would have to tell her, "Well I am not "All Men" and it is too bad you did not figure that out sooner!"
> 
> Hear so much of "goose/gander" and "all men do it" "men do it too" that there are so many girls that have that 304 phase be ause every body else is, and later wonder why the decent guys want nothing to do with them.


See what I mean, @QuietRiot? Here's my original post:


> I cannot believe some of things I've been told I just had to accept because "all men do that." Strip clubs, lap dances, porn, ONS, leering at other women, buying drinks for other women... it's a catch-all excuse that essentially means "you don't deserve respect and if you demand it you won't get love."


Absolutely not one SINGLE thing in the post that claims that all men actually do anything at all. But still, accusing me of saying all men do it, because, reasons.

Sadly, your disclaimer wouldn't have stopped this. At this point, it's so beyond ridiculous I don't even know what to do any more. I guess just ignore it.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> See what I mean, @QuietRiot? Here's my original post:
> 
> 
> Absolutely not one SINGLE thing in the post that claims that all men actually do anything at all. But still, accusing me of saying all men do it, because, reasons.
> ...


Your post was definitely misread. It was the men saying that not the women. I got it.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Not said:


> Your post was definitely misread. It was the men saying that not the women. I got it.


Thank you. It was deliberately misread.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Twodecades said:


> Pornography. Erotic literature. Not masturbation, unless it takes away from the marital relationship. I feel like that's up to the couple.
> 
> The pornography is for most faith-based reasons but also ethical ones. It's at odds with my libertarian side. I hate seeing people destroy themselves, yet I'm also loathe to take away anyone's choices/liberty without just cause. People should have the right to choose how they want to live. I'm conflicted.


I respect that. I just wonder what boundaries are there. Say a man sees a picture of an attractive woman fully clothed and then goes off and masturbates (fantasizing about her). Is that appropriate since she isn't his wife? Technically, its just masturbation, but is it something more? What does a person think of when they masturbate to make it ok or wrong?

Off topic: I'm kind of in the same boat. My perspective is that what is legal and what is ethical/moral is separable. I think everything consensual should be legal (drugs, prostitution etc...) just heavily regulated and taxed. Does that mean I agree with it. Nope. My thoughts are if it's illegal to sin, what kind of free will is that? Besides its already rampant, give people the freedom and regulate it to make people safer. I don't agree with locking up people for something that hurts only themselves. It just leads to more criminality.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> My thoughts are if it's illegal to sin, what kind of free will is that?


You should start a thread about this. It's a fascinating thought experiment.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I respect that. I just wonder what boundaries are there. Say a man sees a picture of an attractive woman fully clothed and then goes off and masturbates (fantasizing about her). Is that appropriate since she isn't his wife? Technically, its just masturbation, but is it something more? What does a person think of when they masturbate to make it ok or wrong?
> 
> Off topic: I'm kind of in the same boat. My perspective is that what is legal and what is ethical/moral is separable. I think everything consensual should be legal (drugs, prostitution etc...) just heavily regulated and taxed. Does that mean I agree with it. Nope. My thoughts are if it's illegal to sin, what kind of free will is that? Besides its already rampant, give people the freedom and regulate it to make people safer. I don't agree with locking up people for something that hurts only themselves. It just leads to more criminality.


My guiding principles would be that 1) Sex is not a commodity and I will not treat it as such and 2) My sexuality is between my husband and me only. So we both (and this is something we both believe, not something we have convinced one another of) approach our actions with that in mind. So ideally we'd be thinking of one another. That doesn't mean we're one another's thought police. And we aren't perfect. We actually talk about stuff without freaking out.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Off topic: I'm kind of in the same boat. My perspective is that what is legal and what is ethical/moral is separable. I think everything consensual should be legal (drugs, prostitution etc...) just heavily regulated and taxed. Does that mean I agree with it. Nope. My thoughts are if it's illegal to sin, what kind of free will is that? Besides its already rampant, give people the freedom and regulate it to make people safer. I don't agree with locking up people for something that hurts only themselves. It just leads to more criminality.


I'm really split about this. On the one hand, I value liberty and people being able to choose right or wrong for themselves. On the other hand, you get what you tolerate, so will legalizing these things hurt innocent people (which I think is @ConanHub's concern, if I have read his posts correctly)? Will it hurt the country? I don't have any easy answers. That's a whole other thread (which you should start 😉).


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> You should start a thread about this. It's a fascinating thought experiment.


Second this notion.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

That could be a good closing thought for this thread.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> There’s women that go to strip clubs sometimes with other women or even bf’s. Same for the hooters and such. Just sayin.


Been to Hooters and strip clubs. I do have to say, you’ll find more scantily dressed girls at the mall than Hooters.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> See what I mean, @QuietRiot? Here's my original post:
> 
> 
> Absolutely not one SINGLE thing in the post that claims that all men actually do anything at all. But still, accusing me of saying all men do it, because, reasons.
> ...


You can do what I do, have a chuckle and not give a damn. 🙂


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I respect that. *I just wonder* what boundaries are there. Say a man sees a picture of an attractive woman fully clothed and then goes off and masturbates (fantasizing about her). *Is that appropriate *since she isn't his wife? Technically, its just masturbation, but *is it something more?* What does a person think of when they masturbate to make it ok or wrong?


Are you asking this rhetorically? Cause, you’re a Christian, yes?

Jesus was crystal clear.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Been to Hooters and strip clubs. I do have to say, you’ll find more scantily dressed girls at the mall than Hooters.


TRUE. THAT.


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

QuietRiot said:


> Been to Hooters and strip clubs. I do have to say, you’ll find more scantily dressed girls at the mall than Hooters.


But this is kind of a mental game, where people associate certain thought/behaviors with specific places.

At the beach, I'm mentally prepared to see others sunbathing in practically nothing. But at school or at the office, I'm not gonna see that. It's not allowed.

And men who enjoy the music and dancing and interaction at a strip club, probably aren't sitting in front of Victoria's Secret posters in the mall.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

minimalME said:


> But this is kind of a mental game, where people associate certain thought/behaviors with specific places.
> 
> At the beach, I'm mentally prepared to see others sunbathing in practically nothing. But at school or at the office, I'm not gonna see that. It's not allowed.
> 
> And men who enjoy the music and dancing and interaction at a strip club, probably aren't sitting in front of Victoria's Secret posters in the mall.


I think QR was being ironic with her example. The lack of clothing that a lot of teen girls out there are wearing in public places is pretty extreme. You don't have to go to Hooters, etc. to get an eye full.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Twodecades said:


> I think QR was being ironic with her example. The lack of clothing that a lot of teen girls out there are wearing in public places is pretty extreme. You don't have to go to Hooters, etc. to get an eye full.


I understand.

My point was more that with different motivations/emotions/desires (from inside each of us), we seek different context. And just because you can get skin in one set of circumstances, doesn't mean that a specific desire of the heart is met.

I can picture a group of guys enjoying a day out on the beach, surrounded by women in wee, tee tiny suits, but then they'll still go to the strip club (or go home and look at pornography).

Or, in terms of this forum, a person can be married to someone who's totally willing to have sex, and yet he/she prefers a different outlet (flirting, affairs, pornography, etc.)

To me, what's going on inside our heads and hearts matters more than external stuff. That's what comes first - and that's what Jesus addresses in Matthew.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

LisaDiane said:


> I would say it's Testosterone. It biologically drives men differently and in a way that women simply cannot comprehend...however they are very willing to judge them for it.
> 
> And for the record, I LOVE football!!


Some women do, some don't and some women and men are selfish assholes seeking self gratification above all.




LisaDiane said:


> Well, the dry spells can come from the man too (it did in my marriage). And there was never a time I refused my EX, never not once....and he still preferred porn over me.
> 
> So again, I think sometimes even when we get what we want, there is something in us that craves more or different or new. And porn (and I agree, romance novels) provides that excitement.
> 
> And FYI....I have nothing against porn at all. I wouldn't mind my partner watching it, as long as he was willing and able to meet MY sexual needs first. I'm just not sure that I trust that would happen.


Been right there with you, for a very long time, so know I understand exactly how it feels and have compassion for anyone in similar circumstances. I found I felt more lonely and dissatisfied using porn than I did otherwise, regardless. It doesn't solve anything, just exacerbates existing problems, so what's the point of using porn as a bandaid to tide one over?

I'm interested in a deeply emotional connection with my partner, there's no room for anything else including porn. When I was dating, I came across men who were big into porn, so I simply left them to play with themselves. It's a huge turnoff for me, but it's a good thing you're all good with it, apparently it's extremely difficult to find a man who doesn't use it as a crutch.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I always hated romance novels and couldn't get through 50 shades.

I never liked porn because I feel like it can interfere with intimacy. I can kind of understood people who use it when they don't have a good partner.

I wouldn't care to be with a regular porn user....don't think I could respect him enough to be close. But if your partner is good with it then carry on.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

What is the other percentage that use visual porn.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I always hated romance novels and couldn't get through 50 shades.
> 
> I never liked porn because I feel like it can interfere with intimacy. I can kind of understood people who use it when they don't have a good partner.
> 
> I wouldn't care to be with a regular porn user....don't think I could respect him enough to be close. But if your partner is good with it then carry on.


You said what I wanted to say perfectly! Thank you. No respect = no love. I don't expect a perfect man, but I can't respect a man lacking in self control , especially when it comes to vices, I view that as mentally weak.

Its good to know there are men who still qualify, I used to be afraid that was a thing of the past.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TXTrini said:


> Some women do, some don't and some women and men are selfish assholes seeking self gratification above all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There are a few of us around. I don't even fantasize about a woman other than my wife.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> You said what I wanted to say perfectly! Thank you. No respect = no love. I don't expect a perfect man, but I can't respect a man lacking in self control , especially when it comes to vices, I view that as mentally weak.
> 
> Its good to know there are men who still qualify, I used to be afraid that was a thing of the past.


I see no evidence that my bf is a regular user. I would assume he sees it sometimes but if so he's hiding it well and I feel enough intimacy with him that I don't care.

Such men definitely exist!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Divinely Favored said:


> All men do not do that. Alot of women these days think that though, and many use that excuse to justify their own bad behavior.
> 
> I am glad I am not 23 again and on the market with all the crap that is going on out there. If I had a GF that used that excuse for poor behavior, I would have to tell her, "Well I am not "All Men" and it is too bad you did not figure that out sooner!"
> 
> Hear so much of "goose/gander" and "all men do it" "men do it too" that there are so many girls that have that 304 phase be ause every body else is, and later wonder why the decent guys want nothing to do with them.


I'm sure this has already been clarified but she wasn't claiming all men do anything.

She can't believe it has been used by those too pathetic to just own their own, individual, behaviors.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Twodecades said:


> I am turned on by porn and find it arousing. That's not why I don't use it. I think more women are aroused by it than most people think, though the ratio is probably male-heavy.


There was a very accurate and objective scientific study that showed women were actually more often visually stimulated than men though far less likely to admit it.

I don't take that as women being inherently less honest than men BTW, just about some things just like men are about others which have social repercussions usually.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> There was a very accurate and objective scientific study that showed women were actually more often visually stimulated than men though far less likely to admit it.
> 
> I don't take that as women being inherently less honest than men BTW, just about some things just like men are about others which have social repercussions usually.


Of course and many men know it. Otherwise the red pill tenets wouldn't exist. 

I think many women are being more honest, especially since we no longer have to depend on men for our livelihoods anymore in Western countries.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> Of course and many men know it. Otherwise the red pill tenets wouldn't exist.
> 
> I think many women are being more honest, especially since we no longer have to depend on men for our livelihoods anymore in Western countries.


Hmm. Maybe. This was a fairly recent study. Things like the Overton window and social pendulum only swing so far in opposite directions while human nature stays pretty much the same throughout history.

I'm mostly convinced women always have, and probably always will, have a couple of areas in their lives that they are very cautious about and socially tight lipped about it as well.

I'm certain men have similar behaviors in different areas of their lives.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Facts not the defamation of women:

Female porn and sex workers are involved in the lowest grade of jobs that any woman can do.

Fact: Many female porn workers are duped into the porn industry if caught young and vulnerable and many go into it knowingly what’s involved and of their own choice. They can be attracted by the money, enjoy the attention or both.

Fact: Women in porn are letting men; sometimes other women and even animals in extreme porn films use their bodies as biological bodily fluid receptacles.

Fact: Female porn workers are demoting themselves from being human individuals to no more than pieces of meat for the sadistic pleasures of sadists who get sexual gratification out of seeing other human beings abused, degraded, humiliated and dehumanised.

Fact: That women who would allow their bodies to be used and abused in such a fashion to being portrayed as no more than sex objects to the masses have extremely low self esteem and no pride in themselves whatsoever.

Fact: That many female porn workers are completely unawares of how their viewers actually perceive them, as an underclass in most cases and living with a false sense they are seemingly respected by their viewers and society as being in some kind of glamorous occupation, equating themselves with actresses, entertainers, film stars and celebrities.

Fact: Drug addiction, alcohol addiction, dissociation, depression, emotional, mental and mood disorders, STDs and suicides are rampant in the sex industry.

This is how it is, the reality and the true facts regarding the majority of women that take part in porn films and within the sex industry as a whole or in other words it stinks.

Porn creates unrealistic sexual expectations that real sex between partners cannot deliver on. It is a platform in which relationships between both men and women are degraded and devalued. For men it can be a one sided release that sets them up for being discontented with real sexual partners, living the fantasy and blinded to the reality that can evolve into a serious addiction.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

minimalME said:


> To me, what's going on inside our heads and hearts matters more than external stuff. That's what comes first - and that's what Jesus addresses in Matthew.


This^^^^.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

LisaDiane said:


> I would say it's Testosterone. It biologically drives men differently and in a way that women simply cannot comprehend...however they are very willing to judge them for it.
> 
> And for the record, I LOVE football!!


It is the higher levels of it. My wife when trying to get HRT correct was dosed with a full dose before it was time, of T. Her libido became voracious! She had to take off work a week because she could not concentrate on work. She kept thinking about me and said she was having to change panties twice during day and started wearing panty liners. I think she could have had sex for hours at a time. Would have been better had she told me how bad it was, I would have taken a week vacation stayed with her all those days and played.😜


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Maybe not the same. But why are men drawn to porn overwhelmingly while women not much so. Obviously there is a component women are missing from their DNA that doesn't allow enjoyment of this type of frivolity. Same with football and fart jokes...


Men are visual creatures, women mental. Why women are drawn to the steamy sex novels as opposed to flix.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think comparing the throwing vs shooting of a bullet to the spectrum of porn is apt comparison. I think there are many movies that are porn, just softcore. I remember a series of Emmanuelle movies. They were softcore French porn movies they would show on Cinemax or something like that. No question in my mind they are porn, but definitely softcore by comparison.
> 
> 
> I realize that there is less likelihood of trafficking and exploitation in those softcore and more mainstream movies, so there is that aspect of it. However, if that isn't your main issue with porn and you still don't think your spouse should be looking at porn, where do you draw the line? If he is masturbating to a fully clothed woman in a Macy's catalog, is that okay? What about in a bikini or cute panties? What about CG or non-real nudity and porn? Or is any form masturbatorial visual aid off limits?


To me yes, unless it is pictures of your SO. My Christian beliefs say fantasizing about another is same as adultry. It is lusting after another.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Divinely Favored said:


> It is the higher levels of it. My wife when trying to get HRT correct was dosed with a full dose before it was time, of T. He's libido became voracious! She had to take off work a week because she could not concentrate on work. She kept thinking about me and said she was having to change panties twice during day and started wearing panty liners. I think she could have had sex for hours at a time. Would have been better had she told me how bad it was, I would have taken a week vacation stayed with her all those days and played.😜


Yea, that is what I also heard from a woman that was put on a full dose, commensurate to a typical male. All she could think about was sex all the time. It was actually quite satisfying seeing someone of the opposite sex get it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Divinely Favored said:


> Men are visual creatures, women mental. Why women are drawn to the steamy sex novels as opposed to flix.


That is a misgeneralization....everyone is visual to some degree. The idea that women aren't visual has been used as a justification for why men can let themselves go and we all know that's false.

Lots of women don't do romance novels. It's true that sex is probably a bit more mental for us, but at least for me that doesn't translate to novels because they're fake and ridiculous.

Fake holds no appeal for me.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Yea, that is what I also heard from a woman that was put on a full dose, commensurate to a typical male. All she could think about was sex all the time. It was actually quite satisfying seeing someone of the opposite sex get it.


Too bad more women hadn't had the same experiences...Might give them a better perspective on why guys get so stupid and irrational at times when it comes to women/sex.....🙃


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

TXTrini said:


> Some women do, some don't and some women and men are selfish assholes seeking self gratification above all.


VERY true. That's actually exactly what my EX was and his reasons for using porn were only always about gratifying himself, to the exclusion of me, which is supreme selfishness and unsustainable in a relationship for ME.



TXTrini said:


> Been right there with you, for a very long time, so know I understand exactly how it feels and have compassion for anyone in similar circumstances. I found I felt more lonely and dissatisfied using porn than I did otherwise, regardless. It doesn't solve anything, just exacerbates existing problems, so what's the point of using porn as a bandaid to tide one over?


I know you do!!  It's an unfortunate club to belong to...

I never watch porn, but I can imagine it would have made me feel much worse when I was being ignored by my EX, because I think I would have felt so resentful that I was watching other people have sex instead of having it myself.
But that's ME. Other people in sexless situations need to handle it THEIR way, not mine, and after knowing how painful it is to be sexually invisible to my partner, I would never tell someone going through that to do things MY way, because that's not fair or helpful to them.



TXTrini said:


> I'm interested in a deeply emotional connection with my partner, there's no room for anything else including porn. When I was dating, I came across men who were big into porn, so I simply left them to play with themselves. It's a huge turnoff for me, but it's a good thing you're all good with it, apparently it's extremely difficult to find a man who doesn't use it as a crutch.


I wouldn't say I'm "all good" with porn...what I meant was I don't mind it if it doesn't interfere with my sexual and emotional needs in a relationship, but that I am not sure that can happen. That's not me being "all good" with it, that's me being accepting but suspicious about why it's needed by my partner and not fully trusting that it won't interfere (because I don't).

I would rather my partner never look at porn and put his entire sexual focus on ME...and I know what I am asking for, and I am VERY able to handle it. But ultimately I do not want to police any man's sexuality...I want to be CHOSEN by him over porn. So some porn isn't going to be a problem for me, even if it's not exactly what I want.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> I wouldn't say I'm "all good" with porn...what I meant was I don't mind it if it doesn't interfere with my sexual and emotional needs in a relationship, but that I am not sure that can happen. That's not me being "all good" with it, that's me being accepting but suspicious about why it's needed by my partner and not fully trusting that it won't interfere (because I don't).
> 
> I would rather my partner never look at porn and put his entire sexual focus on ME...and I know what I am asking for, and I am VERY able to handle it. But ultimately I do not want to police any man's sexuality...I want to be CHOSEN by him over porn. So some porn isn't going to be a problem for me, even if it's not exactly what I want.


Maybe I'm in the minority? I really don't know. I maintain that porn is simply a tool. I am a very high drive man and would prefer having sex all the time. If I was with a partner that wanted me in the same way, then it would be no problem at all to put all of my focus into my partner. I understand exactly what you are saying here, LD. 

I know this is true about myself since it happened last year when my ex's sex drive came back after a 16 year hiatus. There was no reason for me to watch porn. She wanted sex and I was happy to oblige. In my opinion, keeping my eyes off porn is extremely easy to do. 

Does this make me a bad person like the rest of the porn users? Maybe. I don't know. My preference is not to look at it. I'd much rather be looking at a willing partner that desires me. I am very curious how many men are in the same boat as me. Clearly, there are men out there that have serious problems with porn as you very well know, LD. It is sad and hurtful when a partner prefers looking at porn instead of their partner. But it would be interesting to know how many are like myself that would prefer looking at their partner instead of porn...... assuming the partner would allow that. My exwife actually likes that porn exists. She told me. She said she wanted to me to watch it so that I wouldn't bother her. That definitely hurt.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Women don't understand the pain with blue balls. It is not just in the sack, it goes up into your gut. Probably like menstrual cramps to a woman. Sometimes feels like being disemboweled through the scrotum.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

hamadryad said:


> Too bad more women hadn't had the same experiences...Might give them a better perspective on why guys get so stupid and irrational at times when it comes to women/sex.....🙃


If only otc testosterone pills were as readily available as morning after pills.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Yea, that is what I also heard from a woman that was put on a full dose, commensurate to a typical male. All she could think about was sex all the time. It was actually quite satisfying seeing someone of the opposite sex get it.


 I told my wife, welcome to what it is like to be a young man. She said, "I don't see how y'all are able to do anything productive, like that" she said it was hell, having such a voracious appetite that can not be quenched. During that time we could go a 45 min round and 5 min later she is ready to attack me again, go another 30-45 min and repeat.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> I told my wife, welcome to what it is like to be a young man. She said, "I don't see how y'all are able to do anything productive, like that" she said it was hell, having such a voracious appetite that can not be quenched. During that time we could go a 45 min round and 5 min later she is ready to attack me again, go another 30-45 min and repeat.


The same has been said about female body builders that use steroids to get bigger. They say they have no idea how men deal with wanting sex all the time. 🤣


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Perhaps it's not widely a topic of discussion that in a man's normal day he's required to be what I term as peacefully-agressive (way not passive aggressive mind you) but maintain a level of controlled aggression all day to maintain that competitive or driven need to overcome obstacles and get things done despite the acts of others with differing agendas. 

Perhaps that contributes to the concept of man my adrenaline is up all day, and if a willing woman, W, is around afterwards, I'm going to conquer that too.

PS always in a consensual way. So no, no being an asshole to women.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Perhaps it's not widely a topic of discussion that in a man's normal day he's required to be what I term as peacefully-agressive (way not passive aggressive mind you) but maintain a level of controlled aggression all day to maintain that competitive or driven need to overcome obstacles and get things done despite the acts of others with differing agendas.
> 
> Perhaps that contributes to the concept of man my adrenaline is up all day, and if a willing woman, W, is around afterwards, I'm going to conquer that too.
> 
> PS always in a consensual way. So no, no being an asshole to women.


We've also had time to learn to control it. We grew into it.

Dumping that fire on an adult woman, all at once, who has never experienced anything like it would be very hard to control.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> We've also had time to learn to control it. We grew into it.
> 
> Dumping that fire on an adult woman, all at once, who has never experienced anything like it would be very hard to control.


That is the same way I saw it as well. If a person goes their entire life without knowing what that feels like, I bet it is very eye opening.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> We've also had time to learn to control it. We grew into it.
> 
> Dumping that fire on an adult woman, all at once, who has never experienced anything like it would be very hard to control.


Kind of like a woman that had small chest and never got attention from random men, get a set of DD and then go off the rails because they are not used to the attention and are not prepared to deal with it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Divinely Favored said:


> Kind of like a woman that had small chest and never got attention from random men, get a set of DD and then go off the rails because they are not used to the attention and are not prepared to deal with it.


Well, not so much.😋

Suddenly having about a hundred times as much aggression and sex drive would make a woman not care too much about attention and start attacking street signs.😉


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Perhaps it's not widely a topic of discussion that in a man's normal day he's required to be what I term as peacefully-agressive (way not passive aggressive mind you) but maintain a level of controlled aggression all day to maintain that competitive or driven need to overcome obstacles and get things done despite the acts of others with differing agendas.


I'm not questioning that this is the case, but it sure sounds exhausting to have to be like that all the time. I realize it's not the same, but I do have to push myself at work because I'm not naturally an aggressive person and when I have to, as my H so eloquently said, put my d&%$ on the table to make people get their work done, it makes me really tired. (lots of other emotions, too, but also tired) Being like that all the time would wear me out, I guess the testosterone helps you stay on consistently? Sexual release, for me anyway, has a calming effect, is it like that for you guys?


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> We've also had time to learn to control it. We grew into it.
> 
> Dumping that fire on an adult woman, all at once, who has never experienced anything like it would be very hard to control.


It's like the Force... it takes years to develop and learn to control your powers and then to hone it for the good of the universe.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I'm not questioning that this is the case, but it sure sounds exhausting to have to be like that all the time. I realize it's not the same, but I do have to push myself at work because I'm not naturally an aggressive person and when I have to, as my H so eloquently said, put my d&%$ on the table to make people get their work done, it makes me really tired. (lots of other emotions, too, but also tired) Being like that all the time would wear me out, I guess the testosterone helps you stay on consistently? Sexual release, for me anyway, has a calming effect, is it like that for you guys?


Sexual release is like “relieving the pressure”.

it is absolutely a calming effect. That is why there is the phrase “post nut clarity”


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> It's like the Force... it takes years to develop amd learn to control your powers and then to hone it for the good of the universe.





> Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi : The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and *penetrates us*. It binds the galaxy together.


😂🤣😂🤣😂 
Sorry. Couldn't help it. 😉


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I'm not questioning that this is the case, but it sure sounds exhausting to have to be like that all the time. I realize it's not the same, but I do have to push myself at work because I'm not naturally an aggressive person and when I have to, as my H so eloquently said, put my d&%$ on the table to make people get their work done, it makes me really tired. (lots of other emotions, too, but also tired) Being like that all the time would wear me out, I guess the testosterone helps you stay on consistently? Sexual release, for me anyway, has a calming effect, is it like that for you guys?


Yep, that's why fighters don't stay with their gfs or wives (or both) before the big fight. Got to keep all that energy inside. Can't just start spraying off then you will walk in there like a kitten instead of a lion.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Divinely Favored said:


> It is the higher levels of it. My wife when trying to get HRT correct was dosed with a full dose before it was time, of T. Her libido became voracious! She had to take off work a week because she could not concentrate on work. She kept thinking about me and said she was having to change panties twice during day and started wearing panty liners. I think she could have had sex for hours at a time. Would have been better had she told me how bad it was, I would have taken a week vacation stayed with her all those days and played.😜


This is the very reason I couldn't hang around 6 years to heal before I started dating again like some posters suggested 😂 . So instead of running through a bunch of hos, I decided to date with intent and find a bf, I was simply lucky we're compatible but he's told me he felt like a walking penis for a long time.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> 😂🤣😂🤣😂
> Sorry. Couldn't help it. 😉


And thats a lot of spooge to bind the galaxys together!


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

LisaDiane said:


> VERY true. That's actually exactly what my EX was and his reasons for using porn were only always about gratifying himself, to the exclusion of me, which is supreme selfishness and unsustainable in a relationship for ME.
> 
> 
> I know you do!!  It's an unfortunate club to belong to...
> ...


I agree. I'm not interested in what other people do or care to police anyone, that's not a respectful way to live. However, I'm not going to play the pick me game for anything or anyone. It doesn't matter that most men use porn, I'm not compatible with most men anyway and only need one for my purposes. My bf and I have discussed sexual expectations and needs, neither of us gets exactly everything we want, but we try to accommodate each other and meet in the middle (_snickers_)

Funnily enough, I quite understand how some men feel when they talk about caring more to fulfill their SO's needs when they're regularly "fed" because I noticed I have a similar attitude.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> When do you want to get married?


I don't know if I could EVER marry a New York fan...!!!!!! Lol!!


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If this is a serious question, I think because for men (IN GENERAL, everyone CALM DOWN) the act itself is the main event, whereas for women (IN GENERAL, I certainly would never presume to speak for all women, again, everyone CALM DOWN), it's less about the destination than the journey. There is no romance in porn (IN GENERAL, ffs), it's usually just the guy is fixing the copier and BAM! **** and balls flapping. But in a romance novel, there is a LOT that leads up to the sex, including references to things like feelings, love, respect, all that stuff that isn't really in porn (IN GENERAL FOR THE LOVE SIMMER DOWN).
> 
> (Extra commentary is not directed at you, Upsidedown. I have to police what I say so the *He-Man Woman Haters Club* doesn't freak out. 😂)


You are correct Darla


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)




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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

LisaDiane said:


> Right. And not nearly as much as men...just like men have some Estrogen as well. But the balance for each gender is different, and has a powerful effect on mood, attitude, sex drive, mental drive, etc, depending on the levels.


Ever watch the New adventures of Christine testosterone episode


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> View attachment 92092


I do love the little Rascals. Loved watching this show when I was a kid.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Always Learning said:


> Ever watch the New adventures of Christine testosterone episode


😆😆😆😆😆


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> I don't know if I could EVER marry a New York fan...!!!!!! Lol!!


I’m a Vikings fan!


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Testosterone isn’t the end all be all of sexual desire my friends. It is a well known idea around fertility treatment facilities that high levels of estrogen cause huge increases in sexual desire. Women’s bodies also turn testosterone into estrogen (so do males). It’s about levels and balance in the body. Estrogen can do very interesting things to a woman in large doses. It’s not so simple as testosterone = super sex drive and energy. Estrogen = crying.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Testosterone isn’t the end all be all of sexual desire my friends. It is a well known idea around fertility treatment facilities that high levels of estrogen cause huge increases in sexual desire. Women’s bodies also turn testosterone into estrogen (so do males). It’s about levels and balance in the body. Estrogen can do very interesting things to a woman in large doses. It’s not so simple as testosterone = super sex drive and energy. Estrogen = crying.


This is interesting information that I did not know - which is surprising due to the fact that I went through all of this for 2 years (as you know) with the fertility treatments. 

I didn't know that some considered estrogen = crying. I didn't know that was a thing. 

I don't recall my exwife getting a massive boost in her sex drive during the fertility treatments. Maybe she was on a different regiment of drugs? Don't know. I remember having to give her shots every morning. Her sex drive didn't change at all during that period of time. If anything, it went down, but then again, the whole process was very stressful on us and that could have also had an effect.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> I’m a Vikings fan!


WHAT??? That makes NO sense...did you grow up in Minnesota??


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> This is interesting information that I did not know - which is surprising due to the fact that I went through all of this for 2 years (as you know) with the fertility treatments.
> 
> I didn't know that some considered estrogen = crying. I didn't know that was a thing.
> 
> I don't recall my exwife getting a massive boost in her sex drive during the fertility treatments. Maybe she was on a different regiment of drugs? Don't know. I remember having to give her shots every morning. Her sex drive didn't change at all during that period of time. If anything, it went down, but then again, the whole process was very stressful on us and that could have also had an effect.


I don’t think it would have been the same process as me, also different doctors use different processes and different levels of hormones on different women depending on their needs. I was dosed with HUGE amounts of estrogen and some viagra (yep viagra which works completely differently in females btw) 4 cycles until it finally worked. It was pretty awesome, I felt alive. And very sexually charged. The nurses would actually tell my ex “Enjoy!” When we picked up the meds. (As an aside, the estrogen isn’t usually the one injected from my experience.) But it wasn’t just me. They already knew what would happen. 

Anyways, I have to think back and believe many home pornography movies are made under the influence of fertility treatment cycles. 😉


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

QuietRiot said:


> Testosterone isn’t the end all be all of sexual desire my friends. It is a well known idea around fertility treatment facilities that high levels of estrogen cause huge increases in sexual desire. Women’s bodies also turn testosterone into estrogen (so do males). It’s about levels and balance in the body. Estrogen can do very interesting things to a woman in large doses. It’s not so simple as testosterone = super sex drive and energy. Estrogen = crying.


Agreed though there really is no great comparison to the aggressive driving nature of testosterone.

I've met plenty of sexually aggressive women though and they only had a fraction of the T I was running around with.😉


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> The nurses would actually tell my ex “Enjoy!”


That. is. Awesome. 

I'm sure you know as well as I do, a little humor during that period of time went a long way to cut the tension. 

These same words were NOT said to me. Maybe the nurses knew the regiment my exwife would be on wouldn't be producing these results. 

I remember the shots I had to give my ex were into her hip area, the needle was massive and the liquid was viscous.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> I don’t think it would have been the same process as me, also different doctors use different processes and different levels of hormones on different women depending on their needs. I was dosed with HUGE amounts of estrogen and some viagra (yep viagra which works completely differently in females btw) 4 cycles until it finally worked. It was pretty awesome, I felt alive. And very sexually charged. The nurses would actually tell my ex “Enjoy!” When we picked up the meds. (As an aside, the estrogen isn’t usually the one injected from my experience.) But it wasn’t just me. They already knew what would happen.
> 
> Anyways, I have to think back and believe many home pornography movies are made under the influence of fertility treatment cycles. 😉


Is it ok to ask what the viagra did on this thread? Because I’m so curious about how it affects women.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TXTrini said:


> This is the very reason I couldn't hang around 6 years to heal before I started dating again like some posters suggested 😂 . So instead of running through a bunch of hos, I decided to date with intent and find a bf, I was simply lucky we're compatible but he's told me he felt like a walking penis for a long time.


It was 10 mo. from when my wife left her ex till we got married.


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Is it ok to ask what the viagra did on this thread? Because I’m so curious about how it affects women.


Increases blood flow, which some doctors like to use to increase chances of embroyo implantation, a more hospitable environment to “take” to. Fertility treatment is somewhat an “art” and a science, I found different doctors try different experiments and use drugs for things they weren’t created for.


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> Agreed though there really is no great comparison to the aggressive driving nature of testosterone.
> 
> I've met plenty of sexually aggressive women though and they only had a fraction of the T I was running around with.😉


Ive been through 4 cycles of intensive IVF hormones of all kinds and hysterical bonding which I can’t describe to anyone without using the term… animalistic. So, I don’t really think testosterone is the only thing that can make a woman extremely aggressive. Nor does it even work with many women. I think that was the point. I’m sure dopamine and oxytocin can cause some pretty addictive type sexual drives that are likely pretty aggressive at times too. 

I suppose I should stop thread jacking here. Oopsie. Sorry @Twodecades

Back to pornography and big throbbing peens…


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Increases blood flow, which some doctors like to use to increase chances of embroyo implantation, a more hospitable environment to “take” to. Fertility treatment is somewhat an “art” and a science, I found different doctors try different experiments and use drugs for things they weren’t created for.


In the interest of staying on the topic of throbbing peens , did it make you feel, um, animalistic? 😋


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

minimalME said:


> Are you asking this rhetorically? Cause, you’re a Christian, yes?
> 
> Jesus was crystal clear.


I'm just making the point, if we can consider porn immoral or sinful, where do we draw the line on masturbation. Innocent frivolity or implicit sin??


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> In the interest of staying on the topic of throbbing peens , did it make you feel, um, animalistic? 😋


No. The viagra didn’t do anything positive for me, and I can say that with certainty because it was added to the regimen at different times than the huge doses of estrogen which in fact did make me quite animalistic. If I described things that happened I’d be writing a bodice ripper. 😉 (I’ll leave that to Mr. Married)


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

QuietRiot said:


> No. The viagra didn’t do anything positive for me, and I can say that with certainty because it was added to the regimen at different times than the huge doses of estrogen which in fact did make me quite animalistic. If I described things that happened I’d be writing a bodice ripper. 😉 (I’ll leave that to Mr. Married)


You have me rolling with some of your descriptions!😂


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> No. The viagra didn’t do anything positive for me, and I can say that with certainty because it was added to the regimen at different times than the huge doses of estrogen which in fact did make me quite animalistic. If I described things that happened I’d be writing a bodice ripper. 😉 (I’ll leave that to Mr. Married)


Thank you. I've been afraid to experiment.


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I'm just making the point, if we can consider porn immoral or sinful, where do we draw the line on masturbation. Innocent frivolity or implicit sin??


Yes, stop masturbating or you will go blind. Didn’t your mom teach you anything??? 

Sorry couldn’t resist. I need to get off the interwebs today.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I'm just making the point, if we can consider porn immoral or sinful, where do we draw the line on masturbation. Innocent frivolity or implicit sin??


Ahhh, the age old question has arisen.


----------



## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

QuietRiot said:


> Yes, stop masturbating or you will go blind. Didn’t your mom teach you anything???
> 
> Sorry couldn’t resist. I need to get off the interwebs today.


either that or it will give you hairy palms and everyone will know what you are doing.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

QuietRiot said:


> No. The viagra didn’t do anything positive for me, and I can say that with certainty because it was added to the regimen at different times than the huge doses of estrogen which in fact did make me quite animalistic. If I described things that happened I’d be writing a bodice ripper. 😉 (I’ll leave that to Mr. Married)


So no point in swiping one of my bf's for funsies?


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> So no point in swiping one of my bf's for funsies?


You might get uncomfortably swollen and hot and sweaty. If that’s hot, then go for it! 🤣

I don’t think Viagra actually makes men desire sex, it think it just makes their peen hard… y’all can correct me if I’m wrong but it did absolutely nada for my sex drive. A bit uncomfortable actually, though I’m pretty sure I got lower dosing than a man takes… I can’t remember. 🤔


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

QuietRiot said:


> I don’t think Viagra actually makes men desire sex, it think it just makes their peen hard… y’all can correct me if I’m wrong but it did absolutely nada for my sex drive. A bit uncomfortable actually, though I’m pretty sure I got lower dosing than a man takes… I can’t remember. 🤔


I've never had ED, but tried a Viagra just out of curiosity....Gave me a seriously vicious headache...IM thinking it probably spiked my BP...I doubt it would do anything for drive, but I could easily see how a guy would get pretty excited if he got wood when he couldn't...It would be like getting a new hammer and smashing it on the table, just for kicks...lol


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

hamadryad said:


> I've never had ED, but tried a Viagra just out of curiosity....Gave me a seriously vicious headache...IM thinking it probably spiked my BP...I doubt it would do anything for drive, but I could easily see how a guy would get pretty excited if he got wood when he couldn't...It would be like getting a new hammer and smashing it on the table, just for kicks...lol


Did you get the gas station viagra. That stuff will just make you sick.


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> Testosterone isn’t the end all be all of sexual desire my friends. It is a well known idea around fertility treatment facilities that high levels of estrogen cause huge increases in sexual desire. Women’s bodies also turn testosterone into estrogen (so do males). It’s about levels and balance in the body. Estrogen can do very interesting things to a woman in large doses. It’s not so simple as testosterone = super sex drive and energy. Estrogen = crying.


Yah but give a woman 30mgs of depot testosterone for a few weeks and watch what happens.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Yah but give a woman 30mgs of depot testosterone for a few weeks and watch what happens.


I heard it will make you burn fat. But also has unpleasant side effects like being all stabby and ragey.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Did you get the gas station viagra. That stuff will just make you sick.


Nah, Id never do that...it was legit...Maybe if you don't have an ED issue, it doesn't work the way it normally would? I dunno...I know I have a history of getting weird side effects from prescription meds, that's why I almost never take any..I figured it was somethiing along those lines...but whew...it was terrible...Even if I did need it, and it did work, if I had that type of headache, the last thing I would want to do is have some sex..


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I remember the shots I had to give my ex were into her hip area, the needle was massive and the liquid was viscous.


Sure sounds like Testosterone Cypionate dissolved in an oil. Viscous. Have to draw into the syringe with a large bore needle and then swap to a finer needle for the injection


----------



## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I'm just making the point, if we can consider porn immoral or sinful, where do we draw the line on masturbation. Innocent frivolity or implicit sin??


It was your focus on a guy masturbating to images of the woman he saw on the street that was a violation of what Jesus and other scriptures say about our thought life/sin, among other things. I _think_ that's what @minimalME was talking about, though I could be wrong.


----------



## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Ive been through 4 cycles of intensive IVF hormones of all kinds and hysterical bonding which I can’t describe to anyone without using the term… animalistic. So, I don’t really think testosterone is the only thing that can make a woman extremely aggressive. Nor does it even work with many women. I think that was the point. I’m sure dopamine and oxytocin can cause some pretty addictive type sexual drives that are likely pretty aggressive at times too.
> 
> I suppose I should stop thread jacking here. Oopsie. Sorry @Twodecades
> 
> Back to pornography and big throbbing peens…


You're forgiven...if you answer this one very important question: Did testosterone dosing make you mansplain everything? 🤔


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Yah but give a woman 30mgs of depot testosterone for a few weeks and watch what happens.


Doesn’t work the same in all women. Some women will get so pissed off and do a Lorena Bobbit on you rather than sexually attack you. Just saying, people shouldn’t go assuming testosterone= hot dirty sex.


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I heard it will make you burn fat. But also has unpleasant side effects like being all stabby and ragey.


The rage is only if you have reason to get very angry in my experience, does help burn fat. Probably a little different for everyone. Just make sure to have IV fluids and good complex carbs for the man.


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I'm just making the point, if we can consider porn immoral or sinful, where do we draw the line on masturbation. Innocent frivolity or implicit sin??





Twodecades said:


> It was your focus on a guy masturbating to images of the woman he saw on the street that was a violation of what Jesus and other scriptures say about our thought life/sin, among other things. I _think_ that's what @minimalME was talking about, though I could be wrong.











Each One Should Be Fully Convinced in His Own Mind


There are a hundred things we can disagree on in which both convictions can be done to the glory of God.




www.desiringgod.org


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I heard it will make you burn fat. But also has unpleasant side effects like being all stabby and ragey.


I don't mind being stabby and ragey for that 😂 Other people might though.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> I don't mind being stabby and ragey for that 😂 Other people might though.


Right? No one minds being stabbed by a skinny girl anyway… 😉😂


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Right? No one minds being stabbed by a skinny girl anyway… 😉😂


You don’t say…. 🤔


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Right? No one minds being stabbed by a skinny girl anyway… 😉😂


You don't want to know the nasty thought that crossed my mind! Though I suppose it's appropriate considering this thread's topic.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> You don't want to know the nasty thought that crossed my mind! Though I suppose it's appropriate considering this thread's topic.


I kinda do...


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I kinda do...


I PMed you. I think the resident dudes will appreciate that😂


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> Doesn’t work the same in all women. Some women will get so pissed off and do a Lorena Bobbit on you rather than sexually attack you. Just saying, people shouldn’t go assuming testosterone= hot dirty sex.


Yah I only have my wife's experience, but she did work with one of only two (at the time) doctors in the US that were actually using testosterone in clinical settings specifically for libido enhancement. You have to get pissed first and then you find out how you will react rage wise with testosterone, that goes with men and women. Generally testosterone is a mood enhancer, it's all getting your dosage dialed in correctly for sexual enhancement, took my wife about 6 months to get it right. The doc also advised her to do things, read, watch movies porn etc. that turn her one. Once she got going look out. You're right it is more than take this shot and go.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Yah I only have my wife's experience, but she did work with one of only two (at the time) doctors in the US that were actually using testosterone in clinical settings specifically for libido enhancement. You have to get pissed first and then you find out how you will react rage wise with testosterone, that goes with men and women. Generally testosterone is a mood enhancer, it's all getting your dosage dialed in correctly for sexual enhancement, took my wife about 6 months to get it right. The doc also advised her to do things, read, watch movies porn etc. that turn her one. Once she got going look out. You're right it is more than take this shot and go.


I have a feeling that if there were a single shot that women could take that would turn them into sex-crazed beasts, whoever invented it would be a gabillionzillionaire and dudes all over would be investing in dart guns to get those meds into all the women all the time... 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

CALM DOWN, He-Man Woman Hater's club. It's a JOKE.


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I have a feeling that if there were a single shot that women could take that would turn them into sex-crazed beasts, whoever invented it would be a gabillionzillionaire and dudes all over would be investing in dart guns to get those meds into all the women all the time... 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
> 
> CALM DOWN, He-Man Woman Hater's club. It's a JOKE.


I’m sorry your disclaimers… 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I have a feeling that if there were a single shot that women could take that would turn them into sex-crazed beasts, whoever invented it would be a gabillionzillionaire and dudes all over would be investing in dart guns to get those meds into all the women all the time... 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
> 
> CALM DOWN, He-Man Woman Hater's club. It's a JOKE.


Isn't it odd that there is 50 million specific male enhancement products and only 1 or 2 fro women. You think the guys running these companies would see the benefit. Maybe they figure if their wives get horny they won't be the beneficiaries.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Isn't it odd that there is 50 million specific male enhancement products and only 1 or 2 fro women. You think the guys running these companies would see the benefit. Maybe they figure if their wives get horny they won't be the beneficiaries.


Or it's not a priority for the men that the woman be really into it as long as they can find someone to cooperate...


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> I’m sorry your disclaimers… 🤣🤣🤣


They're gonna flip out anyway, but still.


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Isn't it odd that there is 50 million specific male enhancement products and only 1 or 2 fro women. You think the guys running these companies would see the benefit. Maybe they figure if their wives get horny they won't be the beneficiaries.


I don’t think most women care if their sex drive isn’t in overdrive. But men are pretty sensitive about having a broken peen. 😬


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I do love the little Rascals. Loved watching this show when I was a kid.


Was your favorite Spanky? Sorry…


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> I don’t think most women care if their sex drive isn’t in overdrive. But men are pretty sensitive about having a broken peen. 😬


Well, part of it could be that society doesn't really encourage women to seek help for their sex drive. I know I was told from childhood that only slutty girls liked sex. And some of the men on here have said they want a virgin, because a sexually aware woman is somehow less desirable. It's not something we as a society really talk about or address.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

QuietRiot said:


> I don’t think most women care if their sex drive isn’t in overdrive. But men are pretty sensitive about having a broken peen. 😬


Hey, broken kitties are no joke either.😉


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Hey, broken kitties are no joke either.😉


Kitty cats have 9 lives though, just sayin'


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> Kitty cats have 9 lives though, just sayin'


Boo! 😵‍💫😋


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> Hey, broken kitties are no joke either.😉


I know it! But… it’s harder (no pun intended) for men in that respect because they can’t make a broke peen perform when it’s not willing. A woman can still go through with the action, so therefore nobody wants to to “fix” what ain’t “broke”. But you’re right there are some broke lady part things that are disconcerting.

Im trying to figure how to tie this whole thread jack back to pornography so we don’t get yelled at. 🤔

Men in pornography use viagra to perform, women don’t need to, because they can fake it. Ah. I give up. Delete away. Sorry in advance mods.


----------



## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

TXTrini said:


> You don't want to know the nasty thought that crossed my mind! Though I suppose it's appropriate considering this thread's topic.


I think I know too but I’m not gonna say because if I’m wrong then I’m gonna look sooooo bad! 😂😂


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I think my wife’s attitude towards porn has been “thank God” because I am not coming after her 2-3 times a day.

TBH I think it’s maybe worse if you’re in a dead bedroom because of the Eugene example.

Eugene is a spanker who can’t have sex with women so instead he sits in mom’s basement and spanks off to other people having sex.

That is depressing and bad, and probably should be stopped.

What happens when you have a “reasonable” compromised amount of sex though and instead you want like twice that or more?

I tried both ways, with and without porn. I preferred the porn.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

QuietRiot said:


> I know it! But… it’s harder (no pun intended) for men in that respect because they can’t make a broke peen perform when it’s not willing. A woman can still go through with the action, so therefore nobody wants to to “fix” what ain’t “broke”. But you’re right there are some broke lady part things that are disconcerting.
> 
> Im trying to figure how to tie this whole thread jack back to pornography so we don’t get yelled at. 🤔
> 
> Men in pornography use viagra to perform, women don’t need to, because they can fake it. Ah. I give up. Delete away. Sorry in advance mods.


Broken peens and kitties are porn star problems so there is that.😉

Wear and tear is a real hazard for kitties probably more than peens in the industry.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> No. The viagra didn’t do anything positive for me, and I can say that with certainty because it was added to the regimen at different times than the huge doses of estrogen which in fact did make me quite animalistic. If I described things that happened I’d be writing a bodice ripper. 😉 (I’ll leave that to Mr. Married)


Viagra was originally created to treat pulmonary artery hypertension by opening blood vessels. It and all PDE-5 inhibitors improve blood flow in smooth muscle.

One web reference states:" It has been used for the management of sexual dysfunction in women†; however, *additional study needed to establish role, if any, of such therapy. * 

Although sildenafil may improve physiologic response (e.g., increased blood flow to sexual organs), *such changes have not been associated with overall improvement in sexual dysfunction in women."*


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> our thought life


This is the battlefield


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> I don’t think Viagra actually makes men desire sex, it think it just makes their peen hard


It does nothing at all for a man's sex drive. It *allows* response by inhibiting an enzyme that reduces blood flow. More blood flow, better erection. No arousal, blood flow doesn't happen. Testosterone is the hormone that determines male sex drive. Viagra isn't a hormone and has no effect on drive. If the Testosterone is too low, a maximum viagra dose will just give the man a raging headache, still no erection because there is no arousal.

We are all ( male and female ) run by complex chemical interactions.


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> I don’t think most women care if their sex drive isn’t in overdrive. But men are pretty sensitive about having a broken peen. 😬


That is a good point.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Rus47 said:


> This is the battlefield


But what if you have such a vivid imagination that just runs off without really thinking about it?


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Men in pornography use viagra to perform


Men in porn don't need viagra because the women are all physically perfect. No peen problems there... just miles of smiley peens... how's that for a fun word picture? It's almost like... a romance novel! Brought it around, back on topic. Whew.


----------



## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

🤦‍♀️😂


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> But what if you have such a vivid imagination that just runs off without really thinking about it?


Oh you were thinking about midgets wearing stilettos in pornography too? Sicko.


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Was your favorite Spanky? Sorry…


Damn... did you pull out a Tommy Boy reference?


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

QuietRiot said:


> Oh you were thinking about midgets wearing stilettos in pornography too? Sicko.


Maybe worse.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Oh you were thinking about midgets wearing stilettos in pornography too? Sicko.


Here's how old I am: Remember Total Recall? The real one, with AHnold. Yeah. There was a midget in stilettos. And three boobs! They were a sex-having super team. WONDERPORN!


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Here's how old I am: Remember Total Recall? The real one, with AHnold. Yeah. There was a midget in stilettos. And three boobs! They were a sex-having super team. WONDERPORN!


😍😍😍


----------



## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Here's how old I am: Remember Total Recall? The real one, with AHnold. Yeah. There was a midget in stilettos. *And three boobs! *They were a sex-having super team. WONDERPORN!


@Mr.Married, are you reading this? Three breasts are iconic. So glad your wife is heeding my advice.


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Here's how old I am: Remember Total Recall? The real one, with AHnold. Yeah. There was a midget in stilettos. And three boobs! They were a sex-having super team. WONDERPORN!


It was the only one worth remembering! Remember Arnie’s voice as he’s rolling down that Martian hill? Argharargarrrg. Sharon Stone… wow. Those were the good ol days.

Wait, no I don’t remember any of that, I was far too young for such movies.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> @Mr.Married, are you reading this? Three breasts are iconic. So glad your wife is heeding my advice.


I believe they were blue? I can't post a picture because I'm 1. on my work computer and 2. Pretty sure that's against the rules.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Damn... did you pull out a Tommy Boy reference?


Hey Richard? Who’s your favorite Little Rascal? Alfalfa? oooorrrr SPANKY


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Hey Richard? Who’s your favorite Little Rascal? Alfalfa? oooorrrr SPANKY


BUT RICHARD!!!


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> BUT RICHARD!!!


Housekeeping?


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Iand 2. Pretty sure that's against the rules.


We don’t need no stinkin’ rules ….


----------



## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

One person's art is another person's porn
Because there are so many various sorts of porn, it is impossible to discuss it without being contentious when it lumps all men and women together.

Only my wife and I may communicate here? AND only partially because we haven't discussed it much. I don't watch much of it and get tired of some of it. My wife and I prefer romantic porn, which we used to watch on French television late at night after the kids were asleep.

We don't actively search for porn
We are into photography and consider photography to be an art form, so when we see an image of a person in the nude that is tastefully done to us, we consider it to be art. I am the type to hang a nude photo on my wall, but it would need to be properly staged and the concept must be accurate, like some of the famous nudes in the church.

I'll provide two examples to demonstrate why I don't think it's art to just be naked.so I
follow all regulations, so I'll use two well-known works of art that were recognized by Facebook in France. The second was a lifelike close-up of a woman's vulva that resulted in a court hearing. _{Inappropriate photo removed - Elegirl}_
I do not consider it to be art, but others may


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

The black masks on the classic painting is a hoot! Classic sculpture and painting porn!?! I guess our ancestors didn't find depicting the human form realistically to be anything prurient. Or your photography example, or art students paying a nude model to learn how to paint the human form.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

There is a famous Dutch painting by one of the masters of a scene in a tavern. A woman at a table is handling a sausage while a leering man is using his hands to deliver a visual proposition. No nudity, but obviously prurient.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> Men are visual creatures, women mental. Why women are drawn to the steamy sex novels as opposed to flix.


Yes. Which is why so many people will hate on porn but romance novels get a pass. There isn't much difference between the two, and the same problems people have with porn can be said about romance novels.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Enigma32 said:


> Yes. Which is why so many people will hate on porn but romance novels get a pass. There isn't much difference between the two, and the same problems people have with porn can be said about romance novels.


Different ox being gored.

I recall as a kid about 11 years old finding a book in our house “Forever Amber” and later “Canterbury Tales”. The word pictures were pretty hot. I believe the first was “Banned in Boston” in the 1940s.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Enigma32 said:


> Yes. Which is why so many people will hate on porn but romance novels get a pass. There isn't much difference between the two, and the same problems people have with porn can be said about romance novels.


One involves visuals of actual people having sex. One requires you to read and they are fictional characters. Not even the same.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

snowbum said:


> One involves visuals of actual people having sex. One requires you to read and they are fictional characters. Not even the same.


The mind is the battleground.

How about a sexually explicit animated cartoon? How about computer generated virtual reality?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

snowbum said:


> One involves visuals of actual people having sex. One requires you to read and they are fictional characters. Not even the same.


You have to read to watch porn too!


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> You have to read to watch porn too!


That little sign that says Porn Hub right before the lesbian farm midget video starts does not count.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

snowbum said:


> One involves visuals of actual people having sex. One requires you to read and they are fictional characters. Not even the same.


It's almost like as other posters have been saying, that many ladies are more into the mental aspect of "sex" and men are aroused by the visuals. Porn and romance novels serve the same purpose. 

I've seen some people here say that porn leads to unrealistic expectations. Ok, maybe so. How about romance novels then? 50 Shades was about an average girl getting banged out every way under the sun by an ultra rich guy with a huge penis that somehow had plenty of time to dedicate to her. A good portion of the book was just sexually explicit details. Not porn? Doesn't lead to unrealistic expectations? Twilight was even worse, IMO. Again, average girl, but this time she is mixed up with a supernatural creature that not only looks better than actual humans but can offer her perks like eternal life. You think THAT doesn't lead to unrealistic expectations? Humans not even good enough for an average girl now. I still remember seeing ladies with Team Edward T shirts. At least I've never seen a guy with a Mia Khalifa T shirt or bumper sticker.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Mr.Married said:


> That little sign that says Porn Hub right before the lesbian farm midget video starts does not count.


You don't read the titles of the videos?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

It is human nature to paint what I do as ok and what others do as wrong. Nothing new or different about that. Draw circle around myself and say everything inside the line is fine. I don’t need fix anything with me.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> It is human nature to paint what I do as ok and what others do as wrong. Nothing new or different about that. Draw circle around myself and say everything inside the line is fine. I don’t need fix anything with me.


You are getting very philosophical with age...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Divinely Favored said:


> Men are visual creatures, women mental. Why women are drawn to the steamy sex novels as opposed to flix.


Women are mental?

😉😉😉


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Enigma32 said:


> It's almost like as other posters have been saying, that many ladies are more into the mental aspect of "sex" and men are aroused by the visuals. Porn and romance novels serve the same purpose.
> 
> I've seen some people here say that porn leads to unrealistic expectations. Ok, maybe so. How about romance novels then? 50 Shades was about an average girl getting banged out every way under the sun by an ultra rich guy with a huge penis that somehow had plenty of time to dedicate to her. A good portion of the book was just sexually explicit details. Not porn? Doesn't lead to unrealistic expectations? Twilight was even worse, IMO. Again, average girl, but this time she is mixed up with a supernatural creature that not only looks better than actual humans but can offer her perks like eternal life. You think THAT doesn't lead to unrealistic expectations? Humans not even good enough for an average girl now. I still remember seeing ladies with Team Edward T shirts. At least I've never seen a guy with a Mia Khalifa T shirt or bumper sticker.


I don't know, I think if they could do it without being judged, some guys might wear their fav porn star gear.

As far as SOG and Twiliight, I agree that they are both very bad examples of relationships. I'm not sure how much women use them to escape vs. transfer unrealistic expectations from them. It was bizarre to see how many 30-50 year old moms were getting together with their friends to see the Twilight movies. I mean, they were somewhat entertaining, but the superfandom was a bit surprising (though plenty of grown men line up to watch live action comic series and sci-fi, so...) As far as letting my teen girls watch Twilight, they were clean movies; the concern I have is the depiction of a codependent romance as the ideal. If they want to watch it, that is something we're going to talk about afterwards.

There is a line in one of the movie that I saw when the female protagonist says to her love interest, "If this is about my soul, take it! I don't want it without you!" Really? That's some great theology right there. Both "teens" (one is really like 100 years old) in the relationship become depressed without the other and try and commit suicide (yes, I know Romeo and Juliet has the same troupe, but teens girls aren't eating that up. I know, because I taught high school). No, I don't think it caused teens to commit suicide over their relationships, but I do think it modeled very poor relationship boundaries for brains that are not fully formed.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

snowbum said:


> One involves visuals of actual people having sex. One requires you to read and they are fictional characters. Not even the same.



What about porn involving computer generated characters? This seems to be more and more common. You can even customize the characters. Since there are no real people involved does that change anyone's perspective on the use of porn?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> I don't know, I think if they could do it without being judged, some guys might wear their fav porn star gear.
> 
> As far as SOG and Twiliight, I agree that they are both very bad examples of relationships. I'm not sure how much women use them to escape vs. transfer unrealistic expectations from them. It was bizarre to see how many 30-50 year old moms were getting together with their friends to see the Twilight movies. I mean, they were somewhat entertaining, but the superfandom was a bit surprising (though plenty of grown men line up to watch live action comic series and sci-fi, so...) As far as letting my teen girls watch Twilight, they were clean movies; the concern I have is the depiction of a codependent romance as the ideal. If they want to watch it, that is something we're going to talk about afterwards.
> 
> There is a line in one of the movie that I saw when the female protagonist says to her love interest, "If this is about my soul, take it! I don't want it without you!" Really? That's some great theology right there. Both "teens" (one is really like 100 years old) in the relationship become depressed without the other and try and commit suicide (yes, I know Romeo and Juliet has the same troupe, but teens girls aren't eating that up. I know, because I taught high school). No, I don't think it caused teens to commit suicide over their relationships, but I do think it modeled very poor relationship boundaries for brains that are not fully formed.


I agree with modeling poor relationship boundaries. Sadly I've seen all of the SOG and Twilight movies. Throughout I kept thinking, this is a ****ed up relationship and ****ed up people, lol. I wonder how often someone needs to see something like that before it does have a lasting impact on how they conduct themselves in real life.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> What about porn involving computer generated characters? This seems to be more and more common. You can even customize the characters. Since there are no real people involved does that change anyone's perspective on the use of porn?


Great question. That boils down to your reasons for being against its use. Organizations like Fight the New Drug are against it from a human rights standpoint as well as an addiction one. They are not religious. People who are against it for religious/faith-based reasons would likely still see it as a battleground of the mind issue. Some others may still think it is not healthy for intimate relationships or could be constructed in a way to encourage rape or violence.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

And to be fair, I'm sure there are some people who would see it as an acceptable substitute for pornography made with real-life, human actors.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> And to be fair, I'm sure there are some people who would see it as an acceptable substitute for pornography made with real-life, human actors.


That sort of segues into the “love doll” conversation.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That sort of segues into the “love doll” conversation.


Oh, you done opened a whole new can of worms, there! 🤣😂🤣 Though I don't know how many men will admit to using that...


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> I don't know, I think if they could do it without being judged, some guys might wear their fav porn star gear.


wait… my favorite porn stars have gear?


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> wait… my favorite porn stars have gear?


Of course you'd ask this question. 😂 I am actually curious about that, now. Report back if you find out. 😉


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Thanks everyone who contributed to this thread. I have enjoyed following. The questions that has come up several times that nobody has tried to answer, is what is porn? For example is this porn?

Edit: this image come from a internet search for yoga.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Twodecades said:


> Oh, you done opened a whole new can of worms, there! 🤣😂🤣 Though I don't know how many men will admit to using that...


It's a common topic in MGTOW circles...haha


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> Oh, you done opened a whole new can of worms, there! 🤣😂🤣 Though I don't know how many men will admit to using that...


I think there are a number of men who would honestly be happier with a love doll.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

leftfield said:


> Thanks everyone who contributed to this thread. I have enjoyed following. The questions that has come up several times that nobody has tried to answer, is what is porn? For example is this porn?
> View attachment 92123


Maybe it's like I know porn if I see it and that my friend is not porn!


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

leftfield said:


> Thanks everyone who contributed to this thread. I have enjoyed following. The questions that has come up several times that nobody has tried to answer, is what is porn? For example is this porn?
> View attachment 92123


Well, that's another great question, but it isn't the point of this thread. We have debated quite a bit in terms of erotic lit vs. video porn and now animated pornography, though. I think the above is probably an instructive for yoga. Would that really turn most men on? If so, then ballet is porn. 

Your question would make another great thread in and of itself. Part of having a debate is defining your terms. If people are defining the terms differently, they're talking past one another.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Maybe it's like I know porn if I see it and that my friend is not porn!


I can see that, but 100 years ago that image would have been labeled porn and more.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Twodecades said:


> Well, that's another great question, but it isn't the point of this thread. We have debated quite a bit in terms of erotic lit vs. video porn and now animated pornography, though. I think the above is probably an instructive for yoga. Would that really turn most men on? If so, then ballet is porn.
> 
> Your question would make another great thread in and of itself. Part of having a debate is defining your terms. If people are defining the terms differently, they're talking past one another.


Well then porn is everywhere. I can't go to the grocery store without seeing a woman with her but cheeks hanging out or boobs on display. Then the only answer is burkhas...


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Well then porn is everywhere. I can't go to the grocery store without seeing a woman with her but cheeks hanging out or boobs on display. Then the only answer is burkhas...


Just because something is everywhere doesn't make it good or even okay. Does plurality = morality?


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Twodecades said:


> Just because something is everywhere doesn't make it good or even okay. Does plurality = morality?


so all in favor of burkhas? yea or nay


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> so all in favor of burkhas? yea or nay


I don't see how this changes anything. I'm sure you can find porn that includes burkhas.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> so all in favor of burkhas? yea or nay


How did burkhas enter the conversation, again? I'm not understanding that leap in logic. And I'm not blaming men for how women dress. People can choose to govern themselves. Both genders have the option to do that.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> Of course you asked this question. 😂 I am actually curious about that, now. Report back if you find out. 😉


I have to admit, I am now curious. Then again, my favorites are all amateur couples that just share their home life and I don't know their names. Maybe I'll just make my own t-shirts?

Regardless, your point of who gets "offended" or feels shame for porn is a good one.

You know I won't defend it nor will I care if others do not like it. I will continue to view it on an "as needed" basis. For a very high sex drive male, I'm not going to deprive myself of relief. It wouldn't be a life style I would choose, but I'm glad others do so that when I am either with a partner that wants to shove me into a dead bedroom for 16 years (never again), or if I don't have a partner... I will view it as needed. I see nothing wrong with it and I feel no shame (clearly.... and especially if I buy the gear).

So if I am not going to defend porn and I won't feel shame or feel offended by those that are against porn, then why are other men feeling shame or getting offended? Are they upset that people are calling them names for viewing porn? Is it something else? Are they feeling insecure? I'm not a psychologist so I don't know what is going on here. I'm curious if it is the same mechanism as what some women feel? What I mean by that are the few women here that I notice constantly saying, "I cannot compete with the 20 year old hard body in porn because I'm too old and fat.". Is that the REAL reason they don't like porn even if they say they don't like porn for moral reasons? It's always funny when I see SOME women say these things. Not all men look at the 20 year old hard bodies. I certainly don't. I always look for the women that have plenty of extra meat on their bones and have a similar shape to my exwife....... because DUH!!! that is what I am attracted to physically! I suspect there are many men out there that are similar to me. 

As for the women here that would never date a man that views porn, that is understandably fair. I completely get why a woman would never accept a man who views porn. I am curious though, is there a gray area for this boundary? What if the man is similar to me? The moment I am given attention by my woman partner, all porn viewing stops. Cold turkey. It is EASY for me to stop. I've said many times before, porn is a tool. That's it. Nothing more. If my partner wants to be with me, I have no reason whatsoever to look at porn. All of my sexual energy goes into my partner. I don't have any to give to other outlets. In that regard, any new woman I start to date would never even know I've viewed porn up until the moment we start having sex. No reason to at that point. I know this about myself to be true for sure as the hysterical bonding I went through last year caused me to stop viewing porn for 6 months straight. Didn't need it. didn't want it. On a side note, I would agree with @QuietRiot. HB is a weird, different feeling. It is very animalistic. I swear I could "smell" my exwife if she was within 200 yards of me. It was messed up. 

Anywho, I'm curious about if the women here that are against their men viewing porn, would it matter if they viewed it in the past, then stopped viewing it once dating begins? I can see why and why not. Certainly no wrong answers here.

@Twodecades, I just remembered something to answer your previous "porn gear" question. The aformentioned hysterical bonding caused my ex and I to look up a wide variety of toys to bring to the bedroom. I noticed on some of the toy websites that one can purchase.... ummmmmm........ "fake female downstairs parts" made out of silicone - but that doesn't constitute as "favorite porn star gear"..... yet. I noticed that there were a wide variety of these implements that could be purchased and then I realized why. Many of the industry's top female porn stars have had molds made out of their female parts so that their fans can feel what its like to have sex with them.

So there you go..... hey. You wanted to know.

Favorite porn star gear does indeed exist.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Twodecades said:


> How did burkhas enter the conversation, again? I'm not understanding that leap in logic. And I'm not blaming men for how women dress. People can choose to govern themselves. Both genders have the option to do that.


Really just hyperbole.

Dave Chapelle said it best... If I were to dress up like a cop and people were to confuse me for a cop, should I really be surprised or outraged?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> Oh, you done opened a whole new can of worms, there! 🤣😂🤣 Though I don't know how many men will admit to using that...


In college, some guys got together and ordered one for the dorm floor leader n put it in his bed while he was at class. Then he put in room of one of his buddies, rinse and repeat. Lotta laughs for the rest of the term


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Maybe I'll just make my own t-shirts?


While I do not support this endeavor, I cannot say that didn't occur to me as an option. 🤣



LATERILUS79 said:


> So if I am not going to defend porn and I won't feel shame or feel offended by those that are against porn, then why are other men feeling shame or getting offended? Are they upset that people are calling them names for viewing porn? Is it something else? Are they feeling insecure? I'm not a psychologist so I don't know what is going on here. I'm curious if it is the same mechanism as what some women feel? What I mean by that are the few women here that I notice constantly saying, "I cannot compete with the 20 year old hard body in porn because I'm too old and fat.". Is that the REAL reason they don't like porn even if they say they don't like porn for moral reasons?


Possibly some people on both sides of the argument feel threatened by the other viewpoint. The why is what I was trying to understand. I think it IS difficult not to let personal life experiences color the argument. 



LATERILUS79 said:


> I just remembered something to answer your previous "porn gear" question. The aformentioned hysterical bonding caused my ex and I to look up a wide variety of toys to bring to the bedroom. I noticed on some of the toy websites that one can purchase.... ummmmmm........ "fake female downstairs parts" made out of silicone - but that doesn't constitute as "favorite porn star gear"..... yet. I noticed that there were a wide variety of these implements that could be purchased and then I realized why. Many of the industry's top female porn stars have had molds made out of their female parts so that their fans can feel what its like to have sex with them.
> 
> So there you go..... hey. You wanted to know.


🤮🤣 I can't say that surprises me, though. For people in the pornography industry, sex is simply a commodity. So why wouldn't they try and profit from it and expand their product line?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I'm just making the point, if we can consider porn immoral or sinful, where do we draw the line on masturbation. Innocent frivolity or implicit sin??


Depends on if you are fantasizing about someone other than your spouse or not.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Divinely Favored said:


> Depends on if you are fantasizing about someone other than your spouse or not.


haha.
Do people actually do that? Masturbate to their spouse? 

serious question.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Rus47 said:


> Sure sounds like Testosterone Cypionate dissolved in an oil. Viscous. Have to draw into the syringe with a large bore needle and then swap to a finer needle for the injection


23ga. draw and 25/27 ga. Inject.


----------



## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> So no point in swiping one of my bf's for funsies?


well it reportedly has an 84% chance of reducing Alzheimer's so go ahead and give it a shot!


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> Possibly some people on both sides of the argument feel threatened by the other viewpoint. The why is what I was trying to understand. I think it IS difficult not to let personal life experiences color the argument.


then what It sounds like is that we need a little honesty from both sides. Obviously, I don't mind saying my viewpoint. What I do will not be affected by what anyone says on this issue. 

I would like to know the view points of the women that are fervently against men viewing it. Why do some feel that they cannot compete? Why do they feel like they have to? If it is because their husband or partner is addicted, that makes sense. What if it is a man like myself? What if the woman has "first dibs" does it even make sense at that point for the woman to get upset if she turns down her husband/partner night after night and he goes to porn for a release? For me personally, this sounds like control. Can't have sex with wife. Can't have sex with other women. Can't view porn. 

For the men that are ultra offended, what exactly are you offended about? Why defend porn so hardcore? Who cares? So what if some people say it's bad. I say do what you want. Uf you feel like getting your release that way, then do it. If you are in a good relationship, you should probably put your focus into your partner. If you aren't in a good relationship, time to leave. Enjoy all the porn you want. No reason to get offended. Porn isn't going anywhere and there are plenty of women to date that won't be offended by porn.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> haha.
> Do people actually do that? Masturbate to their spouse?
> 
> serious question.


On long business trip. Phone sex. Happened often


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> then what It sounds like is that we need a little honesty from both sides. Obviously, I don't mind saying my viewpoint. What I do will not be affected by what anyone says on this issue.
> 
> I would like to know the view points of the women that are fervently against men viewing it. Why do some feel that they cannot compete? Why do they feel like they have to? If it is because their husband or partner is addicted, that makes sense. What if it is a man like myself? What if the woman has "first dibs" does it even make sense at that point for the woman to get upset if she turns down her husband/partner night after night and he goes to porn for a release? For me personally, this sounds like control. Can't have sex with wife. Can't have sex with other women. Can't view porn.
> 
> For the men that are ultra offended, what exactly are you offended about? Why defend porn so hardcore? Who cares? So what if some people say it's bad. I say do what you want. Uf you feel like getting your release that way, then do it. If you are in a good relationship, you should probably put your focus into your partner. If you aren't in a good relationship, time to leave. Enjoy all the porn you want. No reason to get offended. Porn isn't going anywhere and there are plenty of women to date that won't be offended by porn.


These are some great points. I cannot answer your questions re: women, as my theological reasons intertwine intricately with all of the others. Perhaps the other women will weigh in.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> On long business trip. Phone sex. Happened often


Exactly. Video chat makes it easier nowadays. 😊


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Well my business trip days were over before there were smart phones or video chat. Yes, I am THAT old. So ours was just over a voice line hotel / home. The tie that binds. Those were the days, and glad no more business trips.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> Exactly. Video chat makes it easier nowadays. 😊


You're so spicy!


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Divinely Favored said:


> 23ga. draw and 25/27 ga. Inject.


20ga draw 23ga inject was always my way. 25/27 with an oil based wouldn't move much would it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rus47 said:


> The mind is the battleground.
> 
> How about a sexually explicit animated cartoon? How about computer generated virtual reality?


The written word and cartoons do not require that actual humans debase themselves for the world to see. They don't require that young women be enslaved as happens in some cases. They don't require that children be raped in child porn.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Twodecades said:


> Great question. That boils down to your reasons for being against its use. Organizations like Fight the New Drug are against it from a human rights standpoint as well as an addiction one. They are not religious. People who are against it for religious/faith-based reasons would likely still see it as a battleground of the mind issue. Some others may still think it is not healthy for intimate relationships or could be constructed in a way to encourage rape or violence.


The religious argument against porn includes the New Drug and human rights standpoints. The very religious/faith-based reasons have a lot to do with these parts of the issue.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> These are some great points. I cannot answer your questions re: women, as my theological reasons intertwine intricately with all of the others. Perhaps the other women will weigh in.


Sitting in an airport during a layover and I’m bored. Might As well keep talking on TAM. 😂


let’s add in the theological aspect then (for the folks that have theological reasons for not accepting porn which I find much more reasonable as an argument over what I usually see).

what happens in a situation like mine or other men like me? What if my exwife said, “no sex for you, you can’t have sex with other women, and you also cannot look at porn because I have religious reasons against it.”

let’s be honest, that is definitely something that happens out in the world. Probably more often than we would think. The answer for you TD is an easier one - you have a strong And healthy relationship so this wouldn’t be an issue - but let’s consider that not all religious people have strong relationships


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

leftfield said:


> Thanks everyone who contributed to this thread. I have enjoyed following. The questions that has come up several times that nobody has tried to answer, is what is porn? For example is this porn?
> 
> Edit: this image come from a internet search for yoga.
> View attachment 92123


define pornography - printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Sitting in an airport during a layover and I’m bored. Might As well keep talking on TAM. 😂
> 
> 
> let’s add in the theological aspect then (for the folks that have theological reasons for not accepting porn which I find much more reasonable as an argument over what I usually see).
> ...


Your solution is the same as it is for women whose husband withhold sex... either live with it or leave. I divorced.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> Your solution is the same as it is for women whose husband withhold sex... either live with it or leave. I divorced.


I do appreciate this answer. It is straight forward for sure. It’s not the easiest, but life isn’t easy and we all have to do difficult things that we don’t want to do. Divorce is also the end that I came to as well as it was obvious my exwife was gearing up for the next super long dead bedroom stretch. 

What if the couple is very religious and against divorce? Which “sin” is chosen? Divorce or porn?


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> The written word and cartoons do not require that actual humans debase themselves for the world to see. They don't require that young women be enslaved as happens in some cases. They don't require that children be raped in child porn.


No they don't. But they get into a person's head in the same way. The mind is the battleground. I was asking a question. I am opposed to all of it. Cartoons, computer animation, movies, in print. All of it. I don't believe any of it is good for a person. My personal belief ( which I have a right to ).


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> No they don't. But they get into a person's head in the same way. The mind is the battleground. I was asking a question. I am opposed to all of it. Cartoons, computer animation, movies, in print. All of it. I don't believe any of it is good for a person. My personal belief ( which I have a right to ).


I liked the fact that you used the phrase “it’s not good for a person”. I respect that personal belief.

I see it in the same situation as smoking in a way. It’s not a perfect analogy, but it works for the purposes of “smoking is bad for you, but people will do it anyway”.

I dont consider porn good or bad. It just “is”. I’ll view it until my next relationship. I will say it is quite useful when wanting to try new things with a partner, but that is the only situation where I would use the word “good” with it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I do appreciate this answer. It is straight forward for sure. It’s not the easiest, but life isn’t easy and we all have to do difficult things that we don’t want to do. Divorce is also the end that I came to as well as it was obvious my exwife was gearing up for the next super long dead bedroom stretch.
> 
> What if the couple is very religious and against divorce? Which “sin” is chosen? Divorce or porn?


The religion issue is a tough one. Some sects allow it, some don't. 

The Catholic Church allows civil divorce under this circumstance. The Issue then becomes about remarriage and if an annulment can be given or not.
When A Spouse Refuses Sex | the reproach of Christ (ronconte.com)

For me. I think God would forgive.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rus47 said:


> No they don't. But they get into a person's head in the same way. The mind is the battleground. I was asking a question. I am opposed to all of it. Cartoons, computer animation, movies, in print. All of it. I don't believe any of it is good for a person. My personal belief ( which I have a right to ).


Of course, you have the right to your personal belief. I was not challenging that but was expressing my point of view.

A person having lust on their mind is one thing. Using other people to conjure up that lust... basically in my belief engaging in abuse of others is even worse. That's my personal belief.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> The religious argument against porn includes the New Drug and human rights standpoints. The very religious/faith-based reasons have a lot to do with these parts of the issue.


Yes. What I was trying to say is that there anti-porn organizations that are not faith-based in their motivations. If you take away the social and ethical concerns, many faith-based objectors will still have a problem with animated porn or erotic literature, as it's a lust issue.


LATERILUS79 said:


> Sitting in an airport during a layover and I’m bored. Might As well keep talking on TAM. 😂
> 
> 
> let’s add in the theological aspect then (for the folks that have theological reasons for not accepting porn which I find much more reasonable as an argument over what I usually see).
> ...


I think the right thing is probably to separate and then divorce if they can't work out the sexual issues. In reality, most Christians probably use pornography as a bandaid or stop gap measure. (Because let's face it, who wants to break up a home, especially when children are involved? And fixing the problem takes two people who are both willing to work at it...and that just doesn't always happen.)

I unfortunately do _not_ have a layover 🤣 and have used up a lot of time posting on this topic (my fault), so I have a lot of work to catch up on. 

Thank you to everyone who contributed to the discussion.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Sitting in an airport during a layover and I’m bored. Might As well keep talking on TAM. 😂


Just minding your business👀😁 ...
Where you goin'?


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

LATERILUS79 said:


> What if the couple is very religious and against divorce? Which “sin” is chosen? Divorce or porn?


I chose an unbiblical divorce (in a sexless marriage, where my husband used pornography), and now I’ll stay unmarried.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> No they don't. But they get into a person's head in the same way. The mind is the battleground. I was asking a question. I am opposed to all of it. Cartoons, computer animation, movies, in print. All of it. I don't believe any of it is good for a person. My personal belief ( which I have a right to ).


From what I've heard, the animation gets so extreme that it is still destructive in different ways, but at least the human element is not there getting abused. It certainly is so exaggerated that immature minds can still get unrealistic expectations of both acts and looks. I remember when the movie came out decades ago with Jessica Rabbit in it, it was like porn to guys. She had a waist that fit in a napkin ring, among other imaginary assets. One rock mag asked Steven Tyler what he wanted for Christmas, and he replied, "Jessica Rabbit." No doubt it gets into their minds and has some bad effects on many. 

But I'd rather they destroyed and jaded themselves than exploit, enslave and abuse real women and children. 

For the same reasons, I say with the robotic sex dolls, bring them on, the sooner the better. Get some fearful, inadequate perverts off the street and off online dating.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> From what I've heard, the animation gets so extreme that it is still destructive in different ways, but at least the human element is not there getting abused. It certainly is so exaggerated that immature minds can still get unrealistic expectations of both acts and looks. I remember when the movie came out decades ago with Jessica Rabbit in it, it was like porn to guys. She had a waist that fit in a napkin ring, among other imaginary assets. One rock mag asked Steven Tyler what he wanted for Christmas, and he replied, "Jessica Rabbit." No doubt it gets into their minds and has some bad effects on many.
> 
> But I'd rather they destroyed and jaded themselves than exploit, enslave and abuse real women and children.
> 
> For the same reasons, I say with the robotic sex dolls, bring them on, the sooner the better. Get some fearful, inadequate perverts off the street and off online dating.


Oh trust me, it's perverse and disgusting, especially that Japanese anime porn. I've seen **** I wish I could unsee.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> Oh trust me, it's perverse and disgusting, especially that Japanese anime porn. I've seen **** I wish I could unsee.


I'm sure it's violent and every other thing. The first porn I saw as a child (postwar magazine porn) was violent, full of raping.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

happyhusband0005 said:


> 20ga draw 23ga inject was always my way. 25/27 with an oil based wouldn't move much would it.


Ouch! I used 25 ga to inject. Took about 6 sec. To inject 1/2 cc 2x a week.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

minimalME said:


> I chose an unbiblical divorce (in a sexless marriage, where my husband used pornography), and now I’ll stay unmarried.


Sorry to hear that happened to you. It’s not easy. I was married in a Catholic Church and promised my ex I would stay with her for good. She decided to make our marriage into a dead bedroom and then leave when I could no longer accept it.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Twodecades said:


> Well, that's another great question, but it isn't the point of this thread. We have debated quite a bit in terms of erotic lit vs. video porn and now animated pornography, though. I think the above is probably an instructive for yoga. Would that really turn most men on? If so, then ballet is porn.
> 
> Your question would make another great thread in and of itself. Part of having a debate is defining your terms. If people are defining the terms differently, they're talking past one another.


A good question. Does that make college female gymnast competitions, swim meets, or college womens volleyball, beach and indoor, porn? All regularly televised.

Every few years some folks scream outfits and tv viewpoints are sexist. It would be perilous being a camera person for any!


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> haha.
> Do people actually do that? Masturbate to their spouse?
> 
> serious question.


Why would you not? Especially if you love and find your spouse sexy. It would even be more realistic fantasy as I know my wife's body and had very detailed memories of different positions after 26 yrs. Many people who have been separated from spouse due to job, etc. even have phone sex with them, if they are in to that.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> A person having lust on their mind is one thing.


It is in fact the main thing. Our brain is our main sexual organ. Anything we *do* is first conceived in our mind. The person who cheats on their spouse has the idea enter their head and then works it around maybe for months before they begin flirting with someone else. It isn't just an accident, they have to intentionally dream about it, think about it until it becomes an obsession.

We have to guard what we let in there. As we used to say in my old profession, garbage in, garbage out.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> most Christians probably use pornography


As a Christian, I am unfortunately prone to failure, don't walk the line, live my beliefs. Stumble and fall into the mud, have to go get forgiven for the failure. That is why, it is essential to avoid intentionally adding anything to pollute the thought life, because that is where the war takes place 24x7.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> Ouch! I used 25 ga to inject. Took about 6 sec. To inject 1/2 cc 2x a week.


I don't know the gauge on mine. The draw needle about twice as wide as the fine inject needle.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> The religion issue is a tough one. Some sects allow it, some don't.
> 
> The Catholic Church allows civil divorce under this circumstance. The Issue then becomes about remarriage and if an annulment can be given or not.
> When A Spouse Refuses Sex | the reproach of Christ (ronconte.com)
> ...


Thank you for the link, elegirl.

I find it funny that my ex converted to Catholicism for our marriage (I am Catholic). She put herself under these rules. 😂. As such, she broke them constantly.

the first half of that article was really good… the second half got into the weeds a bit for me. It’s why I don’t go to church anymore. I don’t care to damn people to hell for sinning. Regardless, leave it to the Catholics to say what they REALLY mean when teaching these rules. They never leave anything to ambiguity. They say what I think all the other Christian religions WANT to say but don’t care if they scare people away or not. 😂


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Thank you for the link, elegirl.
> 
> I find it funny that my ex converted to Catholicism for our marriage (I am Catholic). She put herself under these rules. 😂. As such, she broke them constantly.
> 
> the first half of that article was really good… the second half got into the weeds a bit for me. It’s why I don’t go to church anymore. I don’t care to damn people to hell for sinning. Regardless, leave it to the Catholics to say what they REALLY mean when teaching these rules. They never leave anything to ambiguity. They say what I think all the other Christian religions WANT to say but don’t care if they scare people away or not. 😂


I will just say that condemnation is NOT the message of the gospel. Christians who follow the Way don’t condemn. I have more than enough working on myself.

I think am off in the weeds (again) so will stop. Apologies to the mods.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Thank you for the link, elegirl.
> 
> I find it funny that my ex converted to Catholicism for our marriage (I am Catholic). She put herself under these rules. 😂. As such, she broke them constantly.
> 
> the first half of that article was really good… the second half got into the weeds a bit for me. It’s why I don’t go to church anymore. I don’t care to damn people to hell for sinning. Regardless, leave it to the Catholics to say what they REALLY mean when teaching these rules. They never leave anything to ambiguity. They say what I think all the other Christian religions WANT to say but don’t care if they scare people away or not. 😂


I agree, good article. I even learned a new word, concupiscence. I have a lot of that for my wife, lol.

I thought it was very interesting to read the Recourse section. It doesn't use the same terminology, but there are a lot of similarities to advice often given here.


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## Walter3 (Jul 31, 2011)

RebuildingMe said:


> Women don’t like men looking at porn because the women in porn aren’t 50 years old and 40 pounds overweight.


you've never watched porn then, there's all types of women in porn, because somewhere, there's a guy that likes how they look.


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## Tony Conrad (Oct 7, 2013)

I think pornpgraphy is mental adultery and has the same affect as if you were doing adultry. It will affect your marriage. No question about it.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Walter3 said:


> you've never watched porn then, there's all types of women in porn, because somewhere, there's a guy that likes how they look.


No doubt. All shapes and sizes, ages, races, you name it.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Tony Conrad said:


> I think pornpgraphy is mental adultery and has the same affect as if you were doing adultry. It will affect your marriage. No question about it.


Actually, it's given us ideas on what to try in bed. And sometimes it appeals to our sexual fantasies and can be a real turn-on.


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## Real talk (Apr 13, 2017)

Because sex is man's greatest motivating factor and traditionally women held the steering wheels for it. Now that it's readily accessible it's harder to manipulate men with it.

Porn is wholly detrimental to society and a key to social degeneracy but I admit but it's also currently a cultural equalizer.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Real talk said:


> Because sex is man's greatest motivating factor and traditionally women held the steering wheels for it. Now that it's readily accessible it's harder to manipulate men with it.
> 
> Porn is wholly detrimental to society and a key to social degeneracy but I admit but it's also currently a cultural equalizer.


We have two adult movie nights each year. One set for tonight. We both look forward to inspired fun.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

The millennials in sexless marriages


Millennials should be at their sexual prime. Why are so many couples reporting major dry spells?




www.bbc.com




_ “The first [several] years of our marriage we had an amazing sex life … and as he got older (he’s 30 now), he just doesn't seem interested in sex anymore.”

This is one of many comments floating around the r/DeadBedrooms subreddit on the social-media platform Reddit – a self-described “discussion group for Redditors who are coping with a relationship that is seriously lacking in sexual intimacy”. Frustrated anecdotes like these abound from people who are in low- or zero-sex relationships. “Why does he prefer his own hand over having sex with me?” one poster asks. The subreddit’s outlook is relatively bleak: “Advice is always appreciated,” reads its description, “just don't be surprised if we've heard it all.”

While it may seem natural enough for these stories to come from older couples struggling to retain the spark they had decades earlier, many are posted by people who self-identify as being in their late 20s or 30s. Some say children or marriages put a halt to their sex lives; * others say their “low-libido” husbands can watch endless pornography, yet won’t get aroused with them. * The list of grievances continues from throngs of millennials posting about their ‘dead bedrooms’. _

I would love a study of these couples that once had a good sex life and now are dead. In particular, did the confused partner gain 50+ pounds right before the change in libido? 

“She says she still thinks I’m handsome and sexy, but now she seldom says ‘yes’ and she wants the lights off. Why could this possibly be happening?”

Umm, maybe she says she’s still attracted to you because she has to say that? Actions speak louder than words? If you really cared about your sex life you wouldn’t have made yourself look physically unattractive? Constructive sexual abandonment?


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I do appreciate this answer. It is straight forward for sure. It’s not the easiest, but life isn’t easy and we all have to do difficult things that we don’t want to do. Divorce is also the end that I came to as well as it was obvious my exwife was gearing up for the next super long dead bedroom stretch.
> 
> What if the couple is very religious and against divorce? Which “sin” is chosen? Divorce or porn?


Divorce isn’t a sin. A sin can easily be forgiven. The question is whether a divorced person is still married to the original spouse in God’s eyes, such that the person is committing adultery every time he or she has sex with their new so-called “spouse.”

In one verse, Jesus says that divorce is invalid. The other verse has Jesus say that divorce is invalid except for “pornea” (sexual immorality). The Catholic Church in effect teaches that you cannot divorce (going with the original teaching), but gets around it by almost always finding that the marriage that was civilly divorced was never valid in God’s eyes in the first place (annulment), thereby allowing the divorced person to remarry.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

CraigBesuden said:


> Divorce isn’t a sin. A sin can easily be forgiven. The question is whether a divorced person is still married to the original spouse in God’s eyes, such that the person is committing adultery every time he or she has sex with their new so-called “spouse.”
> 
> In one verse, Jesus says that divorce is invalid. The other verse has Jesus say that divorce is invalid except for “pornea” (sexual immorality). The Catholic Church in effect teaches that you cannot divorce (going with the original teaching), but gets around it by almost always finding that the marriage that was civilly divorced was never valid in God’s eyes in the first place (annulment), thereby allowing the divorced person to remarry.


Unless divorced due to sexual immorality or abandonment. Remarriage is adultry with another partner. 

Biblically a WS that is divorced because of their sexual immorality, can not remarry or they live in sin by continually committing adultry with their new spouse. The BS is free to remarry. The WS is supposed to remain and pray for reconciliation with the BS.


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