# Deleted Text Messages - Paranoia?



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

Hello all,

I've been reading this forum now for weeks trying to garner some knowledge and perspective about my particular situation. 

Quick background - married 12 years, both early 40's, two kids. The marriage itself has been up and down, mostly because of my depression and anxiety. I'm in counseling and taking meds (finally) in the attempt to rectify both of these situations. However, I do recognize that I have not held up my end of the marriage for some time - something that I have been open and honest about with my wife in the last two months. She has commented many times in the past that I have not been emotionally supportive of her. Again, no argument from me, I own that and am working towards repairing that void. Still, she is incredibly supportive of me and props me up even on my worst days. It's almost surreal that I am asking these questions.

I have open access to her phone (as she does mine) and have noticed that there are a few texts and phone call records that have been deleted. In her defense, her phone is completely full and she 1) refuses to backup and delete pics and 2) must resort to deleting *something* to make room, which could mean pics, texts, apps, etc.

The texts and calls are all to a single # but only amount 14 texts and 2 phone calls since February 2015. She stores the contact as the actual coworkers name in her phone - not trying to hide the guy’s name, but is deleting the messages and call records (which I've found on our phone bill and a spotlight search on the iPhone). The messages/calls occurred in February 2015 (9 texts, all in one day, after business hours 5pm-8pm), not again until May (1 call and 1 text, during business hours), and then again in August (4 texts and 1 call, all on same day during business hours). I have access to her email and other accounts and there is no suspect behavior for any other phone #'s or anything questionable on Facebook (realizing of course that things can be deleted).
She does have a work issued phone which I have zero access to.

I've found the guy on Facebook and he's probably ten years younger than we are, quite good looking, and married.

I also ran the free version of Wondershare on her phone and it didn’t recover any of the texts – it did find the phone call records though I already knew of them from the phone bill.

I want to ask her about this because it’s concerning that text messages to a male coworker would be deleted, but the volume is so low and spread out that it makes me wonder if I’m being overly paranoid.

Any thoughts or comments are appreciated.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Has your sex life changed in the last few years?

Has her dress, hair style, make up etc changed?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

First off, deleting texts and/or call records isn't going to net her ANYTHING in terms of available space for saving photos or whatever else, so don't fall for that line.

As for the rest, I'd say there's not enough info at this point to make a determination. That said, that she's deleting call records and texts -- presumably in order to conceal their communications -- isn't good.

Does she work closely w/ the guy? Like in the same department, on the same team, etc? I ask because 2 phone calls and 14 texts between co-workers in the past 7 months is practically nothing. The work phone, however, is possibly a problem. Are you talking about a phone at her desk or a cell phone?

How long has she worked at her current place of employment? How about this other guy?

Has she been working late, going on extended shopping trips, making late night trips to the grocery store, etc?


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I know this would worry me. Don't say anything to her and keep on trying to get more information. Hide a VAR in her car and keep monitoring her phone. There is no reason why she should be calling this guy.


----------



## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

I'm not saying anythings going on, But keep your eyes open. That's how it started with my husband & I thought it wasn't enough to be concerned about. I was so wrong..


----------



## Ol'Pal (Aug 24, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> First off, deleting texts and/or call records isn't going to net her ANYTHING in terms of available space for saving photos or whatever else, so don't fall for that line.
> 
> As for the rest, I'd say there's not enough info at this point to make a determination. That said, that she's deleting call records and texts -- presumably in order to conceal their communications -- isn't good.
> 
> ...


Gus, 

Since you seem to be the authority around here on stuff such as this, Is there any way for him to get the actual text messages back and find out what they actually said? For my own knowledge as well..


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

@Chaparral - Sex life has picked up a bit in the last few months. She cut her hair quite short along with our daughters about 6 months ago. 
@GusPolinski - I concur that deleting texts will have no impact on storage - she didn't say this to me, I was just making an observation.

They work in the same overall organization so there would naturally be interactions. She's worked there for 10 years. I don't honestly know about the guy.

She does work late sometimes though she was recently promoted so there's a higher expectation on her. No abnormal late night trips, etc

On her work phone, it's an iPhone 5 and it's got a 8 digit code on it which I don't have the faintest clue on.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Ol'Pal said:


> Gus,
> 
> Since you seem to be the authority around here on stuff such as this, Is there any way for him to get the actual text messages back and find out what they actually said? For my own knowledge as well..


Yes, but there are a few details that will come into play, most notably the make and model of the phone in question (current OS is important as well), along w/ whether or not it's being backed up at all and, if so, the backup methodology being used (i.e. local vs online).

For the iPhone, Wondershare Dr. Fone and iPhone Backup Extractor generally do pretty well. There are a handful of other apps out there as well, but I don't have much experience w/ most of them.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

orvispac said:


> @Chaparral - Sex life has picked up a bit in the last few months. She cut her hair quite short along with our daughters about 6 months ago.
> 
> @GusPolinski - I concur that deleting texts will have no impact on storage - she didn't say this to me, I was just making an observation.
> 
> ...


Sooo... you ran WDF against her personal phone? I'm guessing it is an iPhone as well?


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

Yes, I ran the free version and it recognized the call logs but not the text - it's a iPhone 5 as well. Not sure on the OS version.

The phone is not being backed up at all - icloud is off and she doesn't really get into that sort of thing.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

orvispac said:


> Yes, I ran the free version and it recognized the call logs but not the text - it's a iPhone 5 as well. Not sure on the OS version.
> 
> The phone is not being backed up at all - icloud is off and she doesn't really get into that sort of thing.


Are her work and personal phones linked to the same Apple iTunes/iCloud account?

What kind of phone do YOU use?


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Are her work and personal phones linked to the same Apple iTunes/iCloud account?
> 
> What kind of phone do YOU use?



I'm not honestly sure about the iTunes accounts. If i had to guess, I'd say no since she works for a very large Fortune 20 company and they are pretty locked down on technology. That said, not sure.

I have an iPhone 6.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

orvispac said:


> I'm not honestly sure about the iTunes accounts. If i had to guess, I'd say no since she works for a very large Fortune 20 company and they are pretty locked down on technology. That said, not sure.
> 
> I have an iPhone 6.


When you text her personal phone, are your texts blue or green?

When you text her work phone, are your texts blue or green?


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> When you text her personal phone, are your texts blue or green?
> 
> When you text her work phone, are your texts blue or green?



Personal phone is iMessage (blue).

I've never texted her work phone as I presume she wants to keep personal stuff off of it (as I do my work phone).


----------



## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

IMO....depression and anxiety symptoms occur to those that try to suppress and deny that "gut feeling" that not all is well!!! 

What do you think orvispac?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

orvispac said:


> Personal phone is iMessage (blue).
> 
> I've never texted her work phone as I presume she wants to keep personal stuff off of it (as I do my work phone).


Geez this is messy.


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Geez this is messy.


Just to clarify as well, I initiated a theoretical text with the guy on her phone and it's not an iPhone as it shows up in green. Obviously didn't actually send a text.

@ Tobyboy - I'd tend to concur but my circumstance has been 15+ years of depression and only really figuring that out in the past year or two.


----------



## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

When did you start going through the actual phone records?

I tend to save all my texts, not purposefully, but I just don't really think to delete them all the time, but I know for sure I don't have anything from February... 

Unless you started digging into this as early as March, I'm not really following how just a handful of texts from over 6 months ago would indicate something going on.


----------



## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

orvispac said:


> Just to clarify as well, I initiated a theoretical text with the guy on her phone and it's not an iPhone as it shows up in green. Obviously didn't actually send a text.
> 
> @ Tobyboy - I'd tend to concur but my circumstance has been 15+ years of depression and only really figuring that out in the past year or two.


Good!! That is the answer I was hoping you make!! 

Now, what made look through her phone?
Had she ever mention this coworker before?
Is she on her work phone a lot at home?
Does she freezes when you walk into the room she's at while texting?

Does she have any close female friends?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

Tobyboy said:


> Good!! That is the answer I was hoping you make!!
> 
> Now, what made look through her phone?
> Had she ever mention this coworker before?
> ...



The reason I started looking through the phone is she has had the habit of late night phone use after I am sleeping. It just seemed somewhat out of place. I've asked her about it and she says it helps her unwind. I suppose it's no different that me reading news on my phone for a while before I go to bed. The only difference is that she is on social networks and doing it after I am sleeping.

I believe she has mentioned him once or twice, though I honestly can't recall specifics.

She's on her work computer a lot at home (presumably working) and not as much on the phone. It's principally her personal phone.

She has lots of good girl friends - I presume there's a reason why that is asked?

@ intuitionoramiwrong - I started going through the records last week as a result of the late night phone usage. From the records, there are very few SMS messages at that time and no messages to the guy in particular other than the ones previously mentioned.

I think the main driver for me was the fact that when looking through the phone bills, there were very few numbers I couldn't reconcile back to a known contact. When I researched this one further, that's when I discovered that the contact was on the personal phone but the activity was removed.

To your comment about old messages, she has plenty of old messages including ones older than the messages in question.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Are you able to _readily_ tell the difference between her work and personal phones? How similar are they in terms of outward appearance? Are they the same color, are they both in the same color/type/style of case or cover?


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

Tobyboy said:


> Good!! That is the answer I was hoping you make!!
> 
> Now, what made look through her phone?
> Had she ever mention this coworker before?
> ...





GusPolinski said:


> Are you able to _readily_ tell the difference between her work and personal phones? How similar are they in terms of outward appearance? Are they the same color, are they both in the same color/type/style of case or cover?



Yes, they are completely different.


----------



## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

orvispac said:


> The reason I started looking through the phone is she has had the habit of late night phone use after I am sleeping. It just seemed somewhat out of place. I've asked her about it and she says it helps her unwind. I suppose it's no different that me reading news on my phone for a while before I go to bed. The only difference is that she is on social networks and doing it after I am sleeping.
> 
> I believe she has mentioned him once or twice, though I honestly can't recall specifics.
> 
> ...


Everyone needs to blow off steam every once in a while. Having close female friends is better than confiding with the opposite sex. 

Do have access to her Facebook account?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

Tobyboy said:


> Everyone needs to blow off steam every once in a while. Having close female friends is better than confiding with the opposite sex.
> 
> Do have access to her Facebook account?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, I have full access to her Facebook account.

I did just notice that she is friends with the guy in question and that was established in August 2015. It would appear that he sent the request as I don't see a friend request leaving from her account.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

So how long has she had the work-issued cell phone?

Assuming that she's had it for longer than the past few months, it's a little odd that he'd be contacting her via her personal cell... and, honestly, that he'd even have the number to her personal cell.

When you say that you have access to her FB account, do you mean that you have the email address and password associated w/ the account?


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> So how long has she had the work-issued cell phone?
> 
> Assuming that she's had it for longer than the past few months, it's a little odd that he'd be contacting her via her personal cell... and, honestly, that he'd even have the number to her personal cell.
> 
> When you say that you have access to her FB account, do you mean that you have the email address and password associated w/ the account?


She's had the work issued cell for a few years at least though she's switched out a few different handsets (they have access lots of tech) in that time. The iPhone has been around only for a few months I'd say.

Yes, I can log into her facebook account as if I were her.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

orvispac said:


> She's had the work issued cell for a few years at least though she's switched out a few different handsets (they have access lots of tech) in that time. The iPhone has been around only for a few months I'd say.
> 
> *Yes, I can log into her facebook account as if I were her.*


The next time you're feeling inclined to do so, check the following...

Messages > Other

Messages > More > Archived (this is your best bet for locating any hidden FB messaging)

Messages > Other > Spam


----------



## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> The next time you're feeling inclined to do so, check the following...
> 
> Messages > Other
> 
> ...


Agree with Gus!!! Also check her activity history...likes, searches, posts hidden...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Is she required to list her personal cell on some sort of list of contacts at work?

And let me just say this real quick...

I'm not really convinced that there's anything going on here. It's possible that I'm wrong, but so far nothing's really screaming at me.

Still, a bit of vigilance -- and due diligence -- isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Having said that, let me also so this... if there IS anything going on here, your wife having two phones (one of which you can't readily access) will make discovering it all the more difficult.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

And by the way, @orvispac, you should be aware that, depending on how your wife has her FB security configured, she may be receiving notifications and/or e-mails at the address linked to her account each time that you log into it.

Same thing goes for Apple alerts when you attempt data recovery via Wondershare Dr. Fone, iPhone Backup Extractor, etc.


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Is she required to list her personal cell on some sort of list of contacts at work?
> 
> And let me just say this real quick...
> 
> ...



I don't really know whether she's required to list her personal cell on the company intranet. I'd guess no but it would be just that, a guess.

Nothing in any of the Facebook folders mentioned above. It seems that if you click through different friends on chat, you can sometimes find old chats. Tells me she doesn't delete them - or doesn't delete *some* of them.

I truly want to believe this is an odd coincidence but i just can't get that nagging feeling out of my head about the deleted phone data. Even if it's a very small amount - why delete it?


----------



## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Is she required to list her personal cell on some sort of list of contacts at work?
> 
> And let me just say this real quick...
> 
> ...


Yeah, other than the deleted texts and calls. But, answer these questions honestly. 
Is your wife hot/sexy? Does she draw a lot of attention from men?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> *First off, deleting texts and/or call records isn't going to net her ANYTHING in terms of available space* for saving photos or whatever else, so don't fall for that line.
> 
> As for the rest, I'd say there's not enough info at this point to make a determination. That said, that she's deleting call records and texts -- presumably in order to conceal their communications -- isn't good.
> 
> ...


Oh. I wasn't aware of that. But then I am technically inept. 

But OP, I think this might be an emotional affair.

Nip it in the bud before it goes physical.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

orvispac said:


> I don't really know whether she's required to list her personal cell on the company intranet. I'd guess no but it would be just that, a guess.
> 
> Nothing in any of the Facebook folders mentioned above. It seems that if you click through different friends on chat, you can sometimes find old chats. Tells me she doesn't delete them - or doesn't delete *some* of them.
> 
> I truly want to believe this is an odd coincidence but i just can't get that nagging feeling out of my head about the deleted phone data. *Even if it's a very small amount - why delete it?*


Assuming that there's nothing going on, it could be nothing more than her wanting to keep work and personal stuff separate. Maybe she went to lunch one day, forgot her work phone on her desk, and he called or sent a text to her personal cell in order to get in touch w/ her. Again, how closely do they work together?

If, however, there is something going on, your evidence is probably going to be on the other phone.

Tell you what... have you configured the "Family Sharing" feature in order to share iTunes purchases? If not you should...

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201088

...and here's one reason why...

How to use Family Sharing with Find my iPhone | iMore

Using the "Find My iPhone" app like this will do two things for you...

1) You'll be able to determine whether or not her work phone has been linked to her personal iTunes/iCloud account; if it has, it will show up in her list of devices.

2) You'll be able to determine the physical location of her personal phone at pretty much any time. Additionally, if her work phone has been linked to the same account, you'll likewise be able to determine the physical location of that phone at any time. This, of course, assumes that location services are enabled on both phones.

Additionally, logging into YOUR account in order to find her phone(s) will send her exactly zero alerts. (ETA: Actually... though I _believe_ that's the case, I need to double-check that first.)

Obviously, though, you can't tell her that any of this is WHY you want to configure the "Family Sharing" feature. Instead, buy a bunch of music and movies on iTunes and tell her that you want to share it w/ her.

(Not sure if this has been mentioned, but if her iPhones are configured for iCloud backups, you can use apps like WDF or iPhone Backup Extractor -- you'll want to Premium/Pro version -- to pull device backups directly from iCloud and run exports from them. Prior to doing this, though, you'll want to be ready to intercept the account login notification e-mail that Apple sends to her. For extra credit, configure an e-mail filter or rule that will automagically do this for you going forward.)

*Additional disclaimer -- you should know that doing anything to get into her work-issued phone could very well land you in hot water (legally speaking) w/ her employer should your attempts to do so come to light.*


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Usually cheaters will phone each other after leaving for work, coming home from work etc. A VAR in her car is usually a big help if she's using her work phone to contact someone. 

The telling thing is deleting his messages and not others. Plenty of people have been caught with less.

Does she ever hide or quickly close screens when you walk by?

Does she have proactive underwear in her drawer she doesn't wear around you?

Does she dress better for work better than she used to?

Does she go out with the girls?


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> Usually cheaters will phone each other after leaving for work, coming home from work etc. A VAR in her car is usually a big help if she's using her work phone to contact someone.
> 
> The telling thing is deleting his messages and not others. Plenty of people have been caught with less.
> 
> ...



She goes out with the girls occasionally but they are generally next door neighbors so they'd all have to be covering for her.

Does dress nicely for work but always has.

No underwear that seems hidden. Doesn't tend to hide screens - as I said, I can access her personal phone pretty much at will.

@ MattMatt - nip it in the bud how? I have not much to go on.

@ Tobyboy - yes, she's very fit and good looking. Doesn't help!


@ GusPolinski - it's virtually certain that I will have zero access to the work phone. As far as family sharing, I'll think she'll sniff something's up as I am generally very weary of location services and she's knows it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Thanks for answering the questions. So far it appears that nothing is happening, however, like you said "that nagging feeling" is probably more accurate than you realise. I do have a few more questions. 

Who initiated the calls and texts?

How was your marraige during the time of the calls and texts if you can recall?(just so you know, if you say it was during a good period....then I'd be more incline to mark it as a red flag)

Any life altering events in the past year?

Has she ever said the following?
"I need space"
" I love you, but not in love with you"
"I don't know who I am anymore"


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

It seems like from your original post that there were three days since February that they had contact via her personal phone. And then goes dark for months at a time. And all history deleted. Why? Isn't intermittent - a text here and there some calls. Three days - and only three days - over the past 8 months. And each time scrubbed clean - including the CALL history, right. I delete texts all the time - swipe away misc convos from friends. But I've never deleted the my call history. (While I'm think of it - check her deleted voicemail folder from her iPhone, to be sure a deleted message from him isn't sitting in that folder)

If it's work related why delete the call history? And if it's work related then it should be on the work phone, but it isn't. I can see forgetting the work phone once and he calls on the personal phone to reach her- but not three times.

These were calls and convos that she did not want her employer to have records of and access to. Hate to say it- planning rendezvous? Three times over eight months? 

Big red flags to me, IMO. And I usually try not to jump to worst case scenario right away. I hope I'm wrong here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Also -

Do we know if he is someone that has a company issued phone. If he did, it would be an iPhone, as that is who the company uses. But you said when you went to test-text him it came up green. So we know the number listed in the phone is a personal cell, not a company issued cell, assuming he has one. So the 2 calls and 14 texts were all personal phone to personal phone communications.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

orvispac said:


> GusPolinski - it's virtually certain that I will have zero access to the work phone. As far as family sharing, I'll think she'll sniff something's up as I am generally very weary of location services and she's knows it.


OK, then try this...

1. Log into her personal e-mail (as in the account that is linked to her Apple iCloud/iTunes account).

2. In a separate browser tab, browse to iCloud.com and log in w/ her credentials.

3. Switch back over to her e-mail, wait for the account login notification e-mail from Apple to roll in and then delete it.

4. Switch back over to the iCloud.com tab, click "Find My iPhone" icon, and take note of which devices are attached to her iCloud account; if her work phone is listed there, you'll be able to use WDF or iPBE (again, Pro version) to run data recovery against device backups from iCloud (again, that's assuming that it's being backed up to iCloud).

5. Log out of everything, delete browser history (or, better yet, use Incognito/InPrivate/Private browsing mode to begin with), and close browser windows.

/sigh

I feel all dirty now.

Having said all this, if you're looking to completely avoid going after the work phone in any way (not a bad idea, TBH), go w/ a VAR.

Search for @weightlifter's "Standard Evidence Post" thread here in the CWI forum for advice, tips, etc re: VAR selection, placement, et.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Based on this information alone, it is hard to tell. You need to shut up and observe her actions and what she says.
If you have a gut feeling something is not right, then you may be onto something, but too early to say.


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

orvispac said:


> Nothing in any of the Facebook folders mentioned above. It seems that if you click through different friends on chat, you can sometimes find old chats. Tells me she doesn't delete them - or doesn't delete *some* of them.


re: the Facebook messages, etc. Given that you haven't found anything to/from him in any of the message folders that Gus suggested you check, do this:

In FB messages, search for his name (or derivatives of, ie. short-form, Thomas/Tom, etc.)

It's definitely a long shot, but if she's ever mentioned his name to any of her other FB friends via messaging, it will show up.

And, as somebody else suggested, check her activity log in FB. (once logged into her account, at the home page, click the down arrow in the upper right, click on "activity log". This will show you everything she's liked, commented on, searched for, etc. It could give you a good indication of how often, or even if, she's interacting with him on FB. You can go back as far as she's been on Facebook, I believe.

FWIW, and this is a different discussion altogether, I've never thought one should be FB friends with co-workers, unless there's a friendship that exists outside of work (which does happen, of course, but generally amongst same-sex friends).

To be FB friends with an opposite-sex co-worker who is 10 years her junior, and who isn't part of her outside-of-work social circle is concerning to me. I wouldn't say "red flag", because we all use FB differently, and some people just make and/or accept friend requests from anybody and everybody, but all the same. Why is Joe Blow, 30-something and married, friend requesting your (according to you, fit and gorgeous) 40-something wife?


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> It seems like from your original post that there were three days since February that they had contact via her personal phone. And then goes dark for months at a time. And all history deleted. Why? Isn't intermittent - a text here and there some calls. Three days - and only three days - over the past 8 months. And each time scrubbed clean - including the CALL history, right. I delete texts all the time - swipe away misc convos from friends. But I've never deleted the my call history. (While I'm think of it - check her deleted voicemail folder from her iPhone, to be sure a deleted message from him isn't sitting in that folder)
> 
> If it's work related why delete the call history? And if it's work related then it should be on the work phone, but it isn't. I can see forgetting the work phone once and he calls on the personal phone to reach her- but not three times.
> 
> ...


I was going to say all of this, exactly, but you beat me to it.

To me, the inconsistency with deleting messages/calls is a big red flag. And worse, because it appears the only deleted items are to/from this one guy.

As an example, my wife deletes anything and everything from her email, and always has. She only keeps things in her inbox that are relevant and/or important, and as soon as they no longer are, she'll delete them. She likes a clean inbox.

When I discovered she did this several years ago, I started getting a little paranoid. As I mentioned in my post above, our laptops are right next to each other, and we also know each others passwords. She has no phone, and also doesn't have a phone at work. She's just really really anal about her email not getting cluttered.

On the flip side, I don't delete squat. I have emails in my inbox that go back as far as 2010 in one account and 2006 (!!!) in my other.

But OP's wife seems like me, except for this one guy, and that's concerning.

If I had to take a total stab at this, I would guess that HE made a move on her back in February, and she (hopefully) resisted. Deleted the messages because she didn't want HR or OP to see them, and carried on. Some time passes, maybe he apologized for being inappropriate, she forgets about it, all is good. She accepts his FB friend request, she thinks nothing of it, but he's still got eyes on her. That kind of thing.

OR... worst case scenario, they had a one-time thing (perhaps physical), they discussed it via text and phone, and moved on. Except they're now FB friends. He sent the request, so maybe he wants more from her, or to do it again...

And trust me, I'm not one of the paranoid ones around TAM, I'm usually amongst the more naive, benefit of the doubt types. But this seems really off to me.


----------



## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

orvispac said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I've been reading this forum now for weeks trying to garner some knowledge and perspective about my particular situation.
> 
> ...


The volume my be so low on her personal phone because maybe she is using the work phone which she knows you have zero access to.

and only deleting those few texts from him and nobody else is a red flag.

and that nagging feeling also known as (AKA) your gut feeling is the biggest red flag.
pleas do not ignore that gut feeling. I did, stupid me


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

Tobyboy said:


> Thanks for answering the questions. So far it appears that nothing is happening, however, like you said "that nagging feeling" is probably more accurate than you realise. I do have a few more questions.
> 
> Who initiated the calls and texts?
> 
> ...


Texts in February were initiated by her. In May, there was one text and one phone call (7 minutes), both initiated by him. In August, there were 4 texts with 5 minutes of each other, initiated by him, then a one minute phone call several minutes later, initiated by her. There's also an AMEX charge that same day for lunch at a place near the office (though I am almost positive there were numerous people at this lunch as we discussed it before).

I am working with a friend at the company now to see if I can get his internal phone #'s (both cell and landline) to check the records against those numbers. I also learned from this friend that the guy moved out of her group 2-3 weeks ago, apparently unhappy with his management, and is now in a building about 15 miles away in a totally separate organization. I guess this is a good thing. 

No life altering events and none of those comments from her - quite the contrary actually as we had what I thought was real breakthrough as it relates to my depression late in the summer. Felt absolutely real to me.

@ GusPolinski - checked the icloud and the work phone is not on it so it must be an account with her work credentials. Do you know if the Pro version of Wondershare is significantly more effective than the free version. I can try and get my hands on the phone for a while again if you think the time and money would be well used.

@ alexm - have looked in every nook and cranny of Facebook and can find absolutely squat.


In all candor, this is eating me alive. It's occupied 100% of my mind and time. I've checked for deleted apps (none), checked apps that have messaging (only Words with Friends I believe) and there are no games or history with anyone that isn't a family member and have combed through years of email and found nothing.

I'm at a loss. If I VAR her car and she's not up to anything (and possibly finds out about the VAR), it's over for sure. I can guarantee that would be a deal breaker for her. If I don't, I'll continue indefinitely with this overwhelming fear of what might be happening, not eating, not sleeping. I can't act normal around her, it's physically impossible.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

orvispac said:


> GusPolinski - checked the icloud and the work phone is not on it so it must be an account with her work credentials. Do you know if the Pro version of Wondershare is significantly more effective than the free version. I can try and get my hands on the phone for a while again if you think the time and money would be well used.


I'd imagine so, yes.

Also keep in mind that you're going to need to be ready to intercept any notifications and/or e-mails that Apple sends out once you start exporting data from device backups, and that's whether you actually log into her iCloud account or not.


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I understand the feeling of it eating you alive believe me.

I also can understand the apprehension with the VAR. I don't quite understand why it would be over if she found it, unless it's a sum of other issues in the marriage, perhaps related to your depression. You are actively trying to protect your marriage, as you do have some points of concern, that cannot be addressed by simply asking her about unfortunately. While I can understand her anger, I would hope (assuming she is innocent) she would understand WHY you did it.

You have access to her cell phone statement. With Verizon and I assume others, you can view real-time activity online, you don't have to wait for the monthly statement. It requires vigilance, and does nothing to relieve the anxiety, but short of a VAR not sure how else you can monitor her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I understand the feeling of it eating you alive believe me.
> 
> I also can understand the apprehension with the VAR. I don't quite understand why it would be over if she found it, unless it's a sum of other issues in the marriage, perhaps related to your depression. You are actively trying to protect your marriage, as you do have some points of concern, that cannot be addressed by simply asking her about unfortunately. While I can understand her anger, I would hope (assuming she is innocent) she would understand WHY you did it.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
HEAVY velcro will be your friend in the car.
And hide one in the house.


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I understand the feeling of it eating you alive believe me.
> 
> I also can understand the apprehension with the VAR. I don't quite understand why it would be over if she found it, unless it's a sum of other issues in the marriage, perhaps related to your depression. You are actively trying to protect your marriage, as you do have some points of concern, that cannot be addressed by simply asking her about unfortunately. While I can understand her anger, I would hope (assuming she is innocent) she would understand WHY you did it.
> 
> ...



I suppose trust should be implicit between a husband and a wife. Tracking her every step and recording her every word shatters that trust, even if I think I have valid reasons. I don't know....I'm just trying to play out the hypothetical scenarios here.

I have access to the online cell account and, frankly, am checking it about 20 times a day. Did I say anxiety much? No activity to report since the late August texts and call.

Is a GPS recommended if the VAR isn't something I feel like I can do? Presume they can be mounted in the engine compartment or some other completely "unfindable" spot?


----------



## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

orvispac said:


> I don't really know whether she's required to list her personal cell on the company intranet. I'd guess no but it would be just that, a guess.


My entire workgroup has each others cell and home numbers.

Our work issued Blackberries are crap and we telework, so we need to communicate.

I delete texts as soon as I have finished reading them unless they require further action.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LonelyinLove said:


> My entire workgroup has each others cell and home numbers.
> 
> Our work issued Blackberries are crap and we telework, so we need to communicate.


iPhones aren't Crapberries.



LonelyinLove said:


> I delete texts as soon as I have finished reading them unless they require further action.


But you delete ALL of them, right?


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> iPhones aren't Crapberries.
> 
> 
> 
> But you delete ALL of them, right?



Small update for what it's worth - the friend came through with the landline office number and work cell for the guy. No calls or texts to/from my wife's personal phone to either number in the 18 months of history I can get from my cell provider.


----------



## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

I am typically a trust your gut person...but I just don't see enough red flags here. 

Have you considered downloading a phone call app, making the number your wife's work cell number and calling the OM? If he answers in a business manner, you're good, if he answers "hey baby"...no good.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Honestly, I think you're overreacting a bit.

Deleting only his texts are weird, sure. And suspicious. But the rest is kinda 'meh' level of suspicious activity.

What I would do is stop trying to recover those texts and just be more aware of their communications in the future. And whatever you do, don't confront her about him, if there's something going on, you'll just get her to cover her tracks more.


----------



## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> iPhones aren't Crapberries.
> 
> 
> 
> But you delete ALL of them, right?


I am definitely more prone to delete texts from people I rarely talk to. For what it's worth.


----------



## Dycedarg (Apr 17, 2014)

I hate to be a pessimist, but this is never a good sign. I'm sorry


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

orvispac said:


> Small update for what it's worth - the friend came through with the landline office number and work cell for the guy. No calls or texts to/from my wife's personal phone to either number in the 18 months of history I can get from my cell provider.


So then that confirms that it was personal phone to personal phone calls and texts. Not good, IMO, and again speaks to my point from last night.

Don't have any experience with the GPS trackers bit sound like they could be an option.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> iPhones aren't Crapberries.
> 
> 
> 
> But you delete ALL of them, right?


My personal phone is an iPhone 6 plus...sadly it has issues too.

I delete texts I no longer need or that do not require an action. What I keep or delete is at my discretion and not a supervisory function of my husband. 

The majority of my team is male BTW. I send and receive texts, email and phone calls from them too.

This is normal work communication folks.


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I receive calls and texts from coworkers as well- work related- meeting times, locations, that I delete. I have one company cell that I also use for personal use. 

I too tend to delete their texts, whereas my friends convos go back for months and months.

So texts themselves from a coworker aren't troubling. It's that in this case, it's texts and calls from a coworker over personal phones where they both also have company phones. And the time frames are concerning. Three quick hits over eight months. Always promptly deleted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I receive calls and texts from coworkers as well- work related- meeting times, locations, that I delete. I have one company cell that I also use for personal use.
> 
> I too tend to delete their texts, whereas my friends convos go back for months and months.
> 
> ...



To be accurate, I have no idea when the records were deleted. I only started the snooping in the past couple of weeks and discovered the deletions at that time. Small point but I figured I'd make it.

@ intuitionoramiwrong - never heard of phone apps like this. Tell me more. Of course, if I call it, say nothing, he'll be prompted to return the call....

In looking at the phone last night, she also texted one of her direct reports in the morning from her personal phone - simply a notification that she was running late and had forgotten her work cell at home.


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Throwing this out to the masses --

Should OP perhaps try to voice his concerns to the guy's wife, see if she can spot anything on her end. Or is it too soon for that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Throwing this out to the masses --
> 
> Should OP perhaps try to voice his concerns to the guy's wife, see if she can spot anything on her end. Or is it too soon for that?


Too soon, IMO. Waaaaay too soon.


----------



## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Throwing this out to the masses --
> 
> Should OP perhaps try to voice his concerns to the guy's wife, see if she can spot anything on her end. Or is it too soon for that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think maybe to soon


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

orvispac said:


> To be accurate, I have no idea when the records were deleted. I only started the snooping in the past couple of weeks and discovered the deletions at that time. Small point but I figured I'd make it.
> 
> @ intuitionoramiwrong - never heard of phone apps like this. Tell me more. Of course, if I call it, say nothing, he'll be prompted to return the call....
> 
> In looking at the phone last night, she also texted one of her direct reports in the morning from her personal phone - simply a notification that she was running late and had forgotten her work cell at home.


So it could be nothing then. That's awesome.

For reals. All we get here are horror stories.


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Too soon, IMO. Waaaaay too soon.


I agree. Just not sure how he can get answers. It could be months before they plan another rendezvous (assuming they were rendezvous). Lots of daily checking on the personal phone records.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I would see if/when she then deletes the text to the coworker that she was running late and forgot the work phone. Could help to establish her habits in this situation and give you some peace of mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

So did you go through all her text threads and go way back to February? 

If I had my wife's phone and tried to even go back to a week ago in some of her threads it would take me hours.... 

This just doesn't sound alarming to me...or accurate.


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

intuitionoramiwrong said:


> So did you go through all her text threads and go way back to February?
> 
> If I had my wife's phone and tried to even go back to a week ago in some of her threads it would take me hours....
> 
> This just doesn't sound alarming to me...or accurate.


I searched her text threads for his name (first, last, both), as well as cell # and got nothing. I also went to threads from the various dates and saw nothing I can only see the texts on the phone bill and in the spotlight search (though it only shows there was a text in the spotlight, normally you can see the first couple of words or first line).

How do you mean not accurate?


----------



## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

orvispac said:


> I searched her text threads for his name (first, last, both), as well as cell # and got nothing. I also went to threads from the various dates and saw nothing I can only see the texts on the phone bill and in the spotlight search (though it only shows there was a text in the spotlight, normally you can see the first couple of words or first line).
> 
> How do you mean not accurate?


I guess I just don't think a deleted text from 7 months ago is a red flag. If she had deleted texts from a day ago, a week ago..even a month ago, okay. But the fact that you are trying to line up deleted texts with a phone bill that's 7 months old seems like you're setting yourself up to fail. 
If you truly believe she is up to something, I think you need to take some of the other suggestions that have been brought up in this thread. 
I'm certainly not trying to take your curiosity and questions lightly. I too have been in your shoes and was unable to find anything, I know it's an all consuming feeling.


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

To be clear, there are also deleted texts from late August, so there is both old and relatively new activity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Next time you get her phone, turn off iMessage on her phone. Then check online.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Tobyboy said:


> Next time you get her phone, turn off iMessage on her phone. Then check online.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wouldn't. It's completely obvious when this feature is off, would cause her to wonder why the feature is off.

and if I'm not mistaken the texts he found weren't iMessages to begin with. The dude's personal phone isn't an iPhone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I wouldn't. It's completely obvious when this feature is off, would cause her to wonder why the feature is off.
> 
> and if I'm not mistaken the texts he found weren't iMessages to begin with. The dude's personal phone isn't an iPhone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is correct. It's not an iPhone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

orvispac said:


> To be clear, there are also deleted texts from late August, so there is both old and relatively new activity.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Three quick out of the blue bursts of communication, over the past eight months. All deleted, texts AND the call history. That's the bigger red flag. Not the texts. We can debate ad nausium pros and cons of deleting texts, but she's deleting the record of the calls off her phone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I wouldn't. It's completely obvious when this feature is off, would cause her to wonder why the feature is off.
> 
> and if I'm not mistaken the texts he found weren't iMessages to begin with. The dude's personal phone isn't an iPhone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, it's obvious when you have a running text thread, not so much when previous texts have been deleted. And, I don't recall confirmation that the dude doesn't use an iPhone.


----------



## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

orvispac said:


> That is correct. It's not an iPhone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I missed this. How you know for sure?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Tobyboy said:


> I missed this. How you know for sure?


Fair point. He could've simply disabled iMessage.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Tobyboy said:


> Next time you get her phone, turn off iMessage on her phone. Then check online.


Bad idea. She'll notice immediately, plus (if Apple doesn't "release" the number in a timely manner) it might actually interfere w/ her ability to get texts.


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Three times over eight months his phone number showed as texts on the account statement.

He had gone and initiated texting him - and he comes up green (texts).

Sure he could keep iMessage off- I suppose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

It could just be she deleted his messages/calls because she only saves personal stuff. The "OM" has been unhappy in his current job and is now in a different location - could be he was merely seeking professional advice and didn't want it on a work phone. 

Yes, some flags, but the fact she is SO transparent is actually really reassuring. IMO


----------



## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

It seems pretty rare here, but this really does seem like it could just be nothing. I'd expect two people in teenage hormone mode for each other to communicate a lot more often, and there seems to be believable explanations for why the texts would be deleted.


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Three times over eight months his phone number showed as texts on the account statement.
> 
> He had gone and initiated texting him - and he comes up green (texts).
> 
> ...



Fair point. It *could* be an iPhone with iMessage off. I don't suppose I'd have any way to really know with certainty.

@ EnjoliWoman - also a fair point. I learned this afternoon from my friend at the office (the friend and the guy are acquaintances) is that the guy was very unhappy in his role and thus the recent change. Since my wife was not in his direct management chain, but is in the management structure, it's possible he was looking for counsel he could trust. Possible.....

It's really hard, though, to understand the deletions. To what end if not secrecy?


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

If someone has a valid explanation as to the deletion of the CALL RECORD off the phone I'm all ears. I want this to be nothing.

Are there others out there who delete single call records off the phone's log?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> While I can understand her anger, I would hope (assuming she is innocent) she would understand WHY you did it.


That's a very slippery slope, and entirely dependent on her personality.

I know that if *I* did absolutely nothing wrong, nor even had the mindset to do something, and my spouse was sneaking around and doing some next-level snooping (ie. VAR), I'd be pretty damn upset. Particularly if I'd never given my spouse anything to be concerned about.


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> If someone has a valid explanation as to the deletion of the CALL RECORD off the phone I'm all ears. I want this to be nothing.
> 
> Are there others out there who delete single call records off the phone's log?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To piggy back on this - any iPhone experts here?

Is it possible that the call log simply has a limit as to how many can be shown? Mine go back 6 months but i honestly use my phone for voice communications very little. If so, that would mean that the record of the calls "fell off" the list as opposed to being purposefully deleted.

Doesn't account for the texts, but....


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

I don't think for now there is anything going on.

To be sure though IMO get the var to confirm then after a week or so take her car and get it washed pull the var.
Hopefully you get nothing and move on.


----------



## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> If someone has a valid explanation as to the deletion of the CALL RECORD off the phone I'm all ears. I want this to be nothing.
> 
> Are there others out there who delete single call records off the phone's log?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is the big red flag isn't it!!!
Why delete the call record?

The only explanation is........so not to raise suspicion!!


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

orvispac said:


> To piggy back on this - any iPhone experts here?
> 
> Is it possible that the call log simply has a limit as to how many can be shown? Mine go back 6 months but i honestly use my phone for voice communications very little. If so, that would mean that the record of the calls "fell off" the list as opposed to being purposefully deleted.
> 
> Doesn't account for the texts, but....


Well, as has come to light, the guy wasn't happy in his job and perhaps contacted her for advice and/or *****ing. And perhaps she had some non-complimentary things to say about fellow co-workers or superiors, or the corporation itself. As she didn't want a record of this communication (HR) in case she got dragged into it somehow, she covered her tracks by deleting the records.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> If someone has a valid explanation as to the deletion of the CALL RECORD off the phone I'm all ears. I want this to be nothing.
> 
> Are there others out there who delete single call records off the phone's log?


I'll cop to doing this. If I dial a wrong number I'll get annoyed and delete the record.

But deleting records of _actual_ phone calls? No, I don't believe I've ever done that.

Still, if OP's wife is OCD enough, I could see her doing this. Work is work, personal is personal, etc.


----------



## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

orvispac said:


> To piggy back on this - any iPhone experts here?
> 
> Is it possible that the call log simply has a limit as to how many can be shown? Mine go back 6 months but i honestly use my phone for voice communications very little. If so, that would mean that the record of the calls "fell off" the list as opposed to being purposefully deleted.
> 
> Doesn't account for the texts, but....


I just checked my iPhone and I make and receive a lot of calls. My log goes back all the way to 2-5-2015.


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

My recent call history has 100 entries under "All" going back to August 2. Nothing beyond that. I must have it set to save 100 records, though never thought about it before now.

To be clear, were there other phone calls around or on the same day that were still listed? Even older calls?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Tobyboy said:


> I just checked my iPhone and I make and receive a lot of calls. My log goes back all the way to 2-5-2015.


This is wrong!!! I double checked and those calls that went back to 2-5-15 were actually FaceTime calls!!! They were at the bottom of my "all" list. The actual calls go back to 9-11-2015. Same with missed calls.


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I checked settings and didn't quickly notice how to change it so it keeps more (or less) than 100 most recent calls.

If all calls from around the time the dude called had dropped off, then that's a horse of a different color. If there are still other calls from around that time, that tells me it was deleted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

orvispac said:


> To piggy back on this - any iPhone experts here?
> 
> *Is it possible that the call log simply has a limit as to how many can be shown?* Mine go back 6 months but i honestly use my phone for voice communications very little. If so, that would mean that the record of the calls "fell off" the list as opposed to being purposefully deleted.
> 
> Doesn't account for the texts, but....


Eh... there may be a limit w/ respect to the _number_ of calls that will show up in the call log, but any such limit wouldn't be based on the _dates_ of the calls.

And besides, if there are calls in the log that pre-date even the last set of calls that she deleted, that would poke a huge hole in that line of thought.


----------



## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Orvis,

Has your wife shown any interest in things she wouldn't before? Example: music, tv, sports, fitness, online games, cooking....

If not....that's good!!! If yes, I would checkout the "dudes" facebook page and see what's he in to.


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

Tobyboy said:


> Orvis,
> 
> Has your wife shown any interest in things she wouldn't before? Example: music, tv, sports, fitness, online games, cooking....
> 
> If not....that's good!!! If yes, I would checkout the "dudes" facebook page and see what's he in to.



There is nothing out of the ordinary that I can think of.

@ GusPolinski - completely agree with your point regarding other calls around that time. I didn't honestly pay any attention to that as I was simply looking for the name/number in question. I'll dig deeper as soon as I can.


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

orvispac said:


> There is nothing out of the ordinary that I can think of.
> 
> @ GusPolinski - completely agree with your point regarding other calls around that time. I didn't honestly pay any attention to that as I was simply looking for the name/number in question. I'll dig deeper as soon as I can.


Look for the the deleted August call timeframe. assuming all calls at that time haven't dropped off the history. 

In her favor- she didn't disguise the dude's name in her phone. Christine instead of Chris
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

orvispac said:


> There is nothing out of the ordinary that I can think of.
> 
> @ GusPolinski - completely agree with your point regarding other calls around that time. I didn't honestly pay any attention to that as I was simply looking for the name/number in question. I'll dig deeper as soon as I can.


More and more I'm starting to believe that nothing going on or was. Maybe not a great idea to delete the texts and calls, she probably did it to not cause you any added anxiety if you were to see them on her phone. Still ....verify just in case.


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

Tobyboy said:


> Orvis,
> 
> Has your wife shown any interest in things she wouldn't before? Example: music, tv, sports, fitness, online games, cooking....
> 
> If not....that's good!!! If yes, I would checkout the "dudes" facebook page and see what's he in to.





PhillyGuy13 said:


> Look for the the deleted August call timeframe. assuming all calls at that time haven't dropped off the history.
> 
> In her favor- she didn't disguise the dude's name in her phone. Christine instead of Chris
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'll be looking as soon as I can.

Yea, the "dude" (I'd rather not think of him as a dude) is listed in the phone as himself. That would be monumental huevos on her part to be so brash.


----------



## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

What prompted this search through her phone to begin with? Is there anything that you are leaving out? 

Typically I am in the group that automatically assumes the worst, but I'm just not feeling it here, which is a really good thing for you, in my opinion.


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

intuitionoramiwrong said:


> What prompted this search through her phone to begin with? Is there anything that you are leaving out?
> 
> Typically I am in the group that automatically assumes the worst, but I'm just not feeling it here, which is a really good thing for you, in my opinion.


From my previous message - easier then retyping. 
_
The reason I started looking through the phone is she has had the habit of late night phone use after I am sleeping. It just seemed somewhat out of place. I've asked her about it and she says it helps her unwind. I suppose it's no different that me reading news on my phone for a while before I go to bed. The only difference is that she is on social networks and doing it after I am sleeping._


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

If it turns out the calls just fell off the list as time went on it would put me at ease.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

I liked the post of Alexm.
Guy's, unhappy with current management, somehow they know each other, and he knows she can be trusted.
So he ask her advice. She, not wanting to be caught up if things go south, delete contact. 
Especially as she works for a top 20 Co. 
I bet she knows better than to have personal msg's of almost any kind stored on the co. servers, especially those that atest to an affair. 

Also, since you have not seen anything else all the way around, I think you can relax.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you checked heer browser to see what websites she's going to late at night.?

Also there are many apps for texting that do not keep a record of the texts. Have you checked out her apps she has on her phone AND apps purchased and deleted?

If your super concerned about her finding a var, buy a pen var from brickhouse security or amazon.


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

OldWolf57 said:


> I liked the post of Alexm.
> Guy's, unhappy with current management, somehow they know each other, and he knows she can be trusted.
> So he ask her advice. She, not wanting to be caught up if things go south, delete contact.
> Especially as she works for a top 20 Co.
> ...


I beginning to come around to this conclusion as well. Someone in the thread mentioned that if there was something going on, there would logically be more contact. Unless they are so on top of it to do almost everything without any electronic communication. Him moving offices early this month removes that as well (though does nothing for the past).

She certainly is smart enough not to have any personal stuff on her work issued pc/phones. 

@ Chaparral - It appears she's never cleared her browser history and there is nothing suspect in it. I also garnered a little additional knowledge on this forum and checked the Settings -> Safari -> Advanced -> Website Data and found nothing out of the ordinary. That's one thing I didn't know about the iPhone.

I've also checked for apps (both installed and not) via the app store. No WhatsApp, Kik, Snapchat, etc. There is Skype - I'm pretty sure I put it on there so we could talk with our kids years ago when on vacation. 

Anyone know if there is a way to tell if apps were installed and deleted recently?


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Were you able to check her call logs? How far back does the list of 100 calls go?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Were you able to check her call logs? How far back does the list of 100 calls go?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ah yes, forgot the update on that.

They only go back to early September so none of the aforementioned calls would be on the phone.


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

If you can log into the iTunes account via desktop, you can click on apps and it displays a list of apps that are in use or have been used in the past on iPhone, iPad...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

orvispac said:


> Ah yes, forgot the update on that.
> 
> They only go back to early September so none of the aforementioned calls would be on the phone.


What was the process you went through originally that determined the calls weren't there? And when you did it? I'm now wondering if they just expired off the list as opposed to being deleted by her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> What was the process you went through originally that determined the calls weren't there? And when you did it? I'm now wondering if they just expired off the list as opposed to being deleted by her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



In all honesty, I'm not 100% sure as I was pretty nervous/upset the first couple of times I was going through the phone. I'm guessing I just went to the recent calls and couldn't find the name/number I was looking for. I presume I overlooked the dates as that's not what I was searching for.

On the apps, I've gone to the App Store via the phone and looked at "Not on this iPhone" and "All" to see what is or has been on the phone. I was just curious if there is a way to see *when* something was added or removed.


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I'm on my iTunes right now, but don't see when an app may have been uninstalled. If you right click on an app you can see when an app was purchased but that's not all that helpful, as I've had some of these apps much longer than the date listed. 

It does list apps that I downloaded but deleted years ago.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I'm on my iTunes right now, but don't see when an app may have been uninstalled. If you right click on an app you can see when an app was purchased but that's not all that helpful, as I've had some of these apps much longer than the date listed.
> 
> It does list apps that I downloaded but deleted years ago.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yea, I checked too and it doesn't seem like you can determine deletions, etc.


----------



## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

Okay, I have some questions that I can't seem to locate the answers to. 
1. Has your wife cheated before?

2. Your history in your first post suggests that you have been a crappy husband with mental health issues that you are getting treated for now. That being said, and without any bit of malice, could this all be in your head? I mean side effect of medication of something.

3. All of this searching on a phone that you stated you have free access to seems so wrong. Cheaters usually hide the phone or lock it. Even if she deletes texts, she would guard that thing. If you don't have something more to suggest that she is cheating, then you are going to set off a bomb in your marriage with all of this CIA type investigation. Are you ready for that?

4. If there is no history of cheating, no unexplained absences, etc., what is wrong with just talking to her about the guy? Healthy couples do that. "Hey, what's the story with this guy? How often do you talk? I don't know him and I don't trust him and I adore you...maybe I'm feeling jealous, I don't know?" Believe it or not, lots of women like it when their man feels some jealousy. Not crazy, clone your phone, running backup checks on your phone type stuff.

Just asking, and I may have missed it if you answered it.


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

bigfoot said:


> Okay, I have some questions that I can't seem to locate the answers to.
> 1. Has your wife cheated before?
> 
> 2. Your history in your first post suggests that you have been a crappy husband with mental health issues that you are getting treated for now. That being said, and without any bit of malice, could this all be in your head? I mean side effect of medication of something.
> ...



To the best of my knowledge, she has not cheated before. I never would have even considered it a possibility until the late night phone usage.

Could it all be in my head? I'm sure it could be. 

All the searching, honestly, has yielded very little in terms of concrete findings and done nothing more than to raise my anxiety levels. Certainly don't want to blow this thing up and am trying to keep the searching unknown to her.

I may speak to her about it/him. The issue here is that I really shouldn't know about him. Certainly not enough to know that I might be uncomfortable that she is interacting with him.


----------



## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Dear orvispac,

I've read through your thread twice to try to figure out why you are so concerned about your wife having deleted some messages from her iPhone.

Like others here, I find little reason for you to be concerned. As you've noted, there are only a relative handful of messages and they were sent/received over a span of several months. In addition, you have uncovered no other evidence that suggests she is doing anything wrong.

What strikes me most, however, is something you said in your original post:



> . . . she is incredibly supportive of me and props me up even on my worst days . . .


If that remains true, then I would stop worrying about your wife's messages. In almost all cases, when a wife starts to cheat, her attitude toward her husband goes down hill, she becomes hypercritical and starts picking fights with him. Being _"incredibly supportive"_ is definitely not what one would typically observe.

As for an explanation of the deleted messages, when I was working I occasionally had to send/receive a business message from/on my a personal computer/cell phone. When this was the case, I deleted them ASAP because it was against company policy (and a bad practice generally) to keep electronic copies of things other than on company servers. Might this be the reason for your wife's behavior?


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

One last thing: In your original post you wrote



> Quick background - married 12 years, both early 40's, two kids. The marriage itself has been up and down, mostly because of my depression and anxiety. I'm in counseling and taking meds (finally) in the attempt to rectify both of these situations. However, I do recognize that I have not held up my end of the marriage for some time - something that I have been open and honest about with my wife in the last two months. She has commented many times in the past that I have not been emotionally supportive of her. Again, no argument from me, I own that and am working towards repairing that void. Still, she is incredibly supportive of me and props me up even on my worst days. It's almost surreal that I am asking these questions.


I'd continue to work on those issues. It would be useful anyway since solving some or all of them would go far to bullet-proofing your marriage.


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

i still recommend a VAR...this way you can hear her side of the conversation


----------



## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

Quote - "The marriage itself has been up and down, mostly because of my depression and anxiety. I'm in counseling and taking meds (finally) in the attempt to rectify both of these situations."

Congratulations on finally seeking medical attention for your conditions. Please keep in mind that taking those meds can have unexpected effects on the way you think. My husband, like you, suffers from depression. Taking medications has had disasterous results on a couple of occasions.

I'm NOT saying that this is what's going on. Just keep an eye on yourself & your thinking. :smile2:


----------



## sixbravebulls (Aug 18, 2015)

In my experience, women cut their hair short when they are upset, not when they are feeling sexy.


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

BrokenLady said:


> Quote - "The marriage itself has been up and down, mostly because of my depression and anxiety. I'm in counseling and taking meds (finally) in the attempt to rectify both of these situations."
> 
> Congratulations on finally seeking medical attention for your conditions. Please keep in mind that taking those meds can have unexpected effects on the way you think. My husband, like you, suffers from depression. Taking medications has had disasterous results on a couple of occasions.
> 
> I'm NOT saying that this is what's going on. Just keep an eye on yourself & your thinking. :smile2:



As I said somewhere previously, I am open to this possibility. 

@ carmen ohio, BrokenLady, and sidney2718 - Thanks for the advice and kind words. I completely agree that fixing me will go a long way to fixing us.

@ sixbravebulls - Have to be honest, this is not something I've heard before.


Small update again - I've found several additional occurrences where there are phone records on the bill but no contacts or texts in the phone. Not more than a few here and there and don't particularly seem to line up with anything in particular (work travel for either one of us, etc). But, still a little unsettling that there are records of texts to #'s that aren't contacts on her phone.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Here's the thing Orvispac, and you can take this to the bank. When a man and a woman are f--king, they contact each other often and regularly. You don't seem to be finding the preponderance of the evidence of her cheating in her phone history my man.


----------



## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

orvispac said:


> As I said somewhere previously, I am open to this possibility.
> 
> @ carmen ohio, BrokenLady, and sidney2718 - Thanks for the advice and kind words. I completely agree that fixing me will go a long way to fixing us.
> 
> ...


Orvispac,

It's obvious your gut is telling you something, so I'll advise you from here on as to what to look for. 
Are these #'s recent?
Have you google them?
Enter the phone numbers on your Facebook search box. Try to find the owners of the numbers?
Namefromphone.com is a free site that let's you do reverse searches on numbers. You might have to register, but still free. I'd say it works about 70% of the time. 
Have you searched your wife's car? Searched her closet, shoe boxes, pockets on hanging clothes?

If your going to snoop....do it right and don't get caught!!!
If you do find something suspicious, check with us before you confront! 

I still think that nothing is going on, but I can't tell you to disregard your gut. Mine has never been wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Could be something very benign. Retailers now can send texts to customers, who 99.999% of the time, promptly delete.

Or to reset your Banking/credit card password you get a text with a verification number. You would then delete those texts.

As said above, research carefully who the numbers are from. Spam texts and retailers will come up quickly if you Google the numbers.

If it's many different numbers, then I doubt she is cheating. If it's one or two numbers that trace back to the Dude at work, then that's concerning.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## orvispac (Sep 23, 2015)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Could be something very benign. Retailers now can send texts to customers, who 99.999% of the time, promptly delete.
> 
> Or to reset your Banking/credit card password you get a text with a verification number. You would then delete those texts.
> 
> ...



There are really no significant patterns of numbers outside of the ones I can identify as family/friends. There are a few that stand out as odd, and I've done about as much research as I can on them and come up with more or less nothing. I've even called many of the ones I suspected to see if I can get a voicemail name, etc. I've eliminated some in that manner and have run into dead ends on others.

@ Tobyboy - thanks for the additional advise. I actually used namefromphone.com for fairly decent success. Might I also recommend SpyDialer. It's very good with mobile phones - frankly, it's a little too good. Scary technology.

@ ThePheonix - I concur that there logically would be more activity than I'm seeing.


To all - thank you for all of your assistance. It's very much appreciated. 

I can't say that I'm 100% comfortable because as mentioned many times, there's just something in my gut that doesn't feel quite right. But, all the snooping so far has produced zero real evidence of anything.....it has, however, produced significant anxiety and worry. Probably for nothing.....I almost wish I hadn't started this to begin with. 

Oh, I did crack the work cell passcode and found very little on it as well. Some texts about dinner with coworkers on work trips and a few fantasy football things (she's in a league with coworkers, both male and female, she should be smarter than to use her work phone for this, but....) but nothing that would otherwise raise my suspicions. No contacts between the "dude" and her on that phone via text or voice (again, unless they are deleted, can't do anything about that). 

However, as she's only used this handset for several months, the old handset is really where something might be. And, that's in her office with little chance of coming home, I presume.


----------



## CLIFFW (Jul 25, 2012)

I'm not sure that's a sign of anything. I delete stuff off my phone all the time - the memory gets full. And it's pretty locked down. Not against my wife, but in case I should lose it. it's chock full of personal information. 

Yes, a bit of paranoia. 

I think when you reach the point of snooping on your spouse, you're already saying you don't trust them. And if you don't trust them, then you shouldn't be with them. Because untrusting people can never be satisfied. There are never enough hoops to jump through to alleviate their insecurities.

But honestly if you feel the need to "go through" someone's phone, and find ways to track their apps, and question deleted things, your marriage is frankly already over. 

I'd be more than a little offended if my wife was doing that to me. I would probably take steps to get away from her. It's creepy to be snooped on this way. It's unethical. It's insulting. 

but to each his own....


----------



## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

CLIFFW said:


> I'm not sure that's a sign of anything. I delete stuff off my phone all the time - the memory gets full. And it's pretty locked down. Not against my wife, but in case I should lose it. it's chock full of personal information.
> 
> Yes, a bit of paranoia.
> 
> ...


What a silly piece of advice.

First, trust isn't binary. One trusts to a greater or lesser extent based upon one's personality, experiences and circumstances. By the time they reach adulthood, most people learn not to trust blindly and rightly consider those who do to be rubes.

Second, under this poster's standard (marriage requires trust; mistrust requires divorce), if a trusted spouse does anything that calls into question her trustworthiness, the other spouse must choose between stifling his concern or divorcing. Even the act of attempting to learn if the concerning behavior is innocent or not is forbidden because it signifies mistrust and mistrusting people can never be satisfied and therefore ought simply to divorce.

Third, in modern marriages there are many more temptations and opportunities to cheat, which means spouses need to be vigilant in order to protect their marriages. Moreover, the toll of a divorce on the marriage partners and the harm it causes their children is enormous. Telling people to simply ignore their concerns only serves to increase the likelihood divorce and thus the suffering.

If one is going to comment on a website devoted to helping people who suspect their spouses of infidelity, one probably ought to have something more to say than _"if you don't trust them, then you shouldn't be with them"_ and _"if you feel the need to 'go throug' someone's phone, and find ways to track their apps, and question deleted things, your marriage is frankly already over. "
_
Fortunately, most people who come here for help are smart enough to ignore silly advice.


----------



## CLIFFW (Jul 25, 2012)

silly because you don't agree with it?

How arrogant.

I wouldn't be with someone who had such a view of marriage. It's self-destructive. I would dump my wife if she was snooping on me and I'm sure she would do the same to me. 

as I said, to each his own. Good luck with your views of "modern marriage."


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Could be something very benign. Retailers now can send texts to customers, who 99.999% of the time, promptly delete.
> 
> Or to reset your Banking/credit card password you get a text with a verification number. You would then delete those texts.
> 
> ...


And Google keeps sending me 2 step verification text messages! Grrr!


----------

