# Which is worse to the kids? Parents with a loveless marriage or divorce?



## DLC (Sep 19, 2021)

People always talk about kids got scarred for life from divorced parents, how about from parents with loveless marriage? 

No violence, no fighting, just roommate-style of marriage. Not an open marriage either so there won’t be “daddy’s or mommy’s friend” around the house. 

It‘a not ideal for sure, but would that be a “better” option?


----------



## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Many children of divorce aren't particularly scarred. It helps if both parents are calm, and/or if they explain to the kids why their living situation has changed.

The situation you describe doesn't sound traumatic either. 

Children aren't as rational as adults, but if a situation isn't toxic and adults take the time to address it w/ them they can understand/adapt to a lot.


----------



## married54yrs (Aug 27, 2021)

After my younger brother and I were both married, our parents divorced. I'm guessing that one of the reasons they stayed together was for my brother and me. Family life growing up had lots of 'tense' time, but there were also happy times; I'm guessing that it was a pretty hard marriage for both my mom and dad. I can say that even though I was married and in graduate school when they divorced, it was still pretty upsetting to me, seemed like a denial of who I was. As I look back on growing up, I'm glad that my parents stayed together until my brother and I got out on our own. My opinion is that it was better that way. After the divorce, my dad chose not to marry again; he said that 'once was enough.' My mom remarried within a year or so; I could hardly stand the new guy, but she thought the sun rose and set in him.

I'm sorry that your marriage has not worked out the way you hoped. At some point, both of you must have shared a lot of joy, excitement, and loving feelings. As married life takes its course, so to speak, the loving feelings sorta come and go (sometimes more going than coming), and it's easy to forget that love is really just a decision. Being married means that we both have to decide to love each other everyday, and sometimes that's pretty darn hard. I hope that things get better for you folks.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My childhood wasn’t particularly unpleasant but I was very aware that my parents weren’t happy together. I wanted them to get a divorce but in that time and place that was virtually unheard of so it never happened. I grew up to repeat that dynamic and my child also wished my husband and I would get a divorce. Finally, late in life, I did but the damage of growing up in a dysfunctional home was done. Children are aware of the dynamics in their home. Some may not care as much as others do (and some may deny the truth) but they do know.


----------



## married54yrs (Aug 27, 2021)

Openminded said:


> My childhood wasn’t particularly unpleasant but I was very aware that my parents weren’t happy together. I wanted them to get a divorce but in that time and place that was virtually unheard of so it never happened. I grew up to repeat that dynamic and my child also wished my husband and I would get a divorce. Finally, late in life, I did but the damage of growing up in a dysfunctional home was done. Children are aware of the dynamics in their home. Some may not care as much as others do (and some may deny the truth) but they do know.


I agree that growing up a dysfunctional home can be damaging. I also have 'scars' from growing up in a dysfunctional home, but perhaps my home was less dysfunctional than other homes. When I hear people tell their stories, I sometimes wonder why the world hasn't just collapsed on itself. Best of luck to you.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

married54yrs said:


> I agree that growing up a dysfunctional home can be damaging. I also have 'scars' from growing up in a dysfunctional home, but perhaps my home was less dysfunctional than other homes. When I hear people tell their stories, I sometimes wonder why the world hasn't just collapsed on itself. Best of luck to you.


Thank you.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

My parents went through very bad patches but I was far more upset that they may divorce than them staying together.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

divorce in and of itself probably does not hurt kids in the slightest. 

Spare me the statistics of school grades and such between children of divorce of and children of happy intact homes as I do not dispute that a faith-based organisation can come up with statistics to show whatever they want. 

But where I am going with this is abuse hurts kids. Neglect hurts kids. Abandonment hurts kids. Alcoholism/chemical addition hurts kids and living in an environment of chronic hostility and bitterness and resentment etc etc hurts kids. 

Most divorces will include various elements of those things preceding the divorce so there is a high likelyhood that kids will have been impacted by those elements. 

HOWEVER, If those things are occuring in the marriage, then sometimes divorce is the medicine. So if Little Jimmy and Suzy are living in that environment and their school grades slip and they are showing signs of distress and their parents divorce - Then yes, the Christian Center For Family Studies can report in their statistics that these children who's parents have divorced have shown a statistical decrease in their schoolastic performance. 

But what about 6 months from now, or a year, or two years AFTER the dust has settled and they are now in a stable environment free of the hostility and the alcoholic parent is out of the picture where they aren't causing them trouble or they have got their sht together and have sobered up etc. 

Now lets flip this around a bit. Let's say both parents are actually sane, sober, loving and supportive parents that just don't get along with each other. They have shared custody and each household is kind and loving and supportive. 

Are these children actually going to be HARMED by being raised by two loving and supportive parents that happen to live in two different houses???

Inconvenienced yes. Annoyed at times, yes. Ideal, probably not. 

But harmed and damaged???????? 

Kids need a safe, loving, supportive and involved environment. Does the parent's marital status really impact that all that much. Do two alcoholic, cheating, abusive parents who are constantly fighting and backstabbing on each and basically neglecting the needs of the kids that happen to stay together produce well-adjusted, successful and high performing children, while two sane, sober, loving and supportive people who decide to amicably divorce and each remain very active and supportive in their children's live actually have damaged and dysfunctional children because of the two houses???

Rather than focusing on divorce, let's look at what is actually causing the harm and address that.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DLC said:


> People always talk about kids got scarred for life from divorced parents, how about from parents with loveless marriage?
> 
> No violence, no fighting, just roommate-style of marriage. Not an open marriage either so there won’t be “daddy’s or mommy’s friend” around the house.
> 
> It‘a not ideal for sure, but would that be a “better” option?


I think there are a couple ways to look at that. If both parents are in agreement that they will live as roommates and coparents under the same roof to share in parental roles and responsibilities and come to working agreements on things such as seeing others and displaying respect and compassion for each other as well as the rest of the family, then I see no harm or damage to the kids at all. 

But I think one should also look at what you are role modeling. Do you want to be role modeling roommates having kids together? Maybe you do and maybe you don't. 

Do you want to role model parenting as a "duty" that we perform at the sacrifice of our own wants and desires and personal fulfilment (some will say yes and some will say no to this) 

Or do you want to role model that people have wants and needs that go beyond just the parental role and that people can pursue some of their own interests and personal fulfilments as well as being a loving and supportive parent (some will say yes and some will say no to this as well) 

These are the things you and your spouse will need to discuss and address.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> divorce in and of itself probably does not hurt kids in the slightest.
> 
> Spare me the statistics of school grades and such between children of divorce of and children of happy intact homes as I do not dispute that a faith-based organisation can come up with statistics to show whatever they want.
> 
> ...


I know children from several marriage break ups who were very deeply affected. Little ones wetting the bed for ages. Teens getting very depressed. In some if them the break ups were quite sudden and the marriages up to that time weren't abusive or neglectful or violent. 
Deny it if you like but a couple divorcing often is very traumatic for the children, even adult children can be quite shaken.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> I know children from several marriage break ups who were very deeply affected. Little ones wetting the bed for ages. Teens getting very depressed. In some if them the break ups were quite sudden and the marriages up to that time weren't abusive or neglectful or violent.
> Deny it if you like but a couple divorcing often is very traumatic for the children, even adult children can be quite shaken.


young children of married couples never wet the bed and teens of married couples are never depressed? 

Noone is arguing that the change in family dynamics won't be stressful and upsetting. But damaging? And long lasting damage and harm???? I think the devil is in the detail on that one. 

And adult children simply need to buck up and adjust. Yes, it may be upsetting that their Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner plans may need to altered and adjusted accordingly. 

But part of being an adult needs to be accepting that your parents are human beings and their job was to keep you warm and safe and fed until you are able to do so yourself and that they are individual human beings that have the same wants and needs and warts and fallibilities as everyone else.


----------



## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

Not a simple yes or no question. The circumstances are different every time, as are the kids and the parents.

I found out that I had married someone with clearly dangerous elements to her character when my younger was days short of their 4th birthday. And by dangerous I mean to our kids - including putting our (2) kids, out of sight and hearing, at risk of harm/abduction for the sake of ten minutes with her best friend's husband. FWIW I now know that her overall behaviour, not just that incident, is that of, and only that of, a psychopath.

I decided to stay to protect my kids and try for a replacement relationship - twenty-seven months later she gave me an STD. From then on we co-parented without any sexual relationship. I interrupted her beating our elder child when they were around eight. Because the child "said NO!" I have seen people angry but this was the only occasion I have experienced rage - purely animalistic and totally obsessive. I can understand why some people would think she was possessed by a demonic entity - she wasn't, it was a consequence of inheriting her father's genes.

I stayed until my kids needed me no longer- approximately 12 years. Then I booted my then wife out.

Both my kids are now in their forties. One has little to do with me, the younger, the "golden child" that was going to achieve that which mother and grandfather had failed at had to be isolated from me least I be given some of the credit for their achievement - the other is getting there - just about to get married to a lovely partner. 

My points - 
a) - both kids are alive and, apparently, belatedly settling down with the prospect of having good lives - and I question if either/both would have made it past 20 had I left them to be (80%?) brought up by their mother.

b) - the elder, who is no slouch mentally, told me that they had no idea that there was anything wrong with the marriage until the process of dumping my XW commenced - and the sibling (IQ 140+) clearly had no idea either since the doubts would undoubtedly have been shared.

One case, one set of circumstances, one process.

No reconciliation, a certain (as in sure) expectation (on my part) that we would not be together once the kids were safe - a deferred dump if you wish.

Without the mental situation would/should I have dumped her 12 years earlier - probably yes to both. 
Was I right to do what I did - I think the outcome suggests I might have been.

An answer, of sorts, to the OP's question. Not a recommendation to anyone.


----------



## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

DLC said:


> People always talk about kids got scarred for life from divorced parents, how about from parents with loveless marriage?
> 
> No violence, no fighting, just roommate-style of marriage. Not an open marriage either so there won’t be “daddy’s or mommy’s friend” around the house.
> 
> It‘a not ideal for sure, but would that be a “better” option?


Depends on the kids, the extended family, community etc. Your question is a valid one few people consider. My best friend grew up in an ideal household but it was dysfunctional as hell. He was always over my house because his house had too much tension from his mom and dad. Versus another friend of mine who had a happy and fruitful upbringing despite divorced parents. It's not the home, it's the love that's in it.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

In almost every example, divorce will be the bigger problem for kids. The research on this is pretty clear.


----------



## ElwoodPDowd (Aug 25, 2021)

Enigma32 said:


> In almost every example, divorce will be the bigger problem for kids. The research on this is pretty clear.


Agree,
Most kids don't notice what their parents are doing (as long as the parents aren't hitting and shouting all the time). If the parents quietly hate each other, the kids will be just fine.


----------



## ElwoodPDowd (Aug 25, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> young children of married couples never wet the bed and teens of married couples are never depressed?


Nearly all violent criminals are brought up by single moms.
I'm not really concerned by bed wetting and depression.


----------



## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Divorced parents vs loveless marriage? 

My wife and I have the most passionate loving marriage. When we brought our kids to this world we use the same love and passion we have for each other and we hoped they would inherit this love and kindness from us seeing how much their parents love and care for each other. Instead we have loveless, compassionless, heartless, manipulative pricks who do not care for their parents or each other, simply uncapable to love anybody. When we go to romantic getaway for two days to celebrate our 25 years together instead of being happy for us and celebrate with us they become angry and ask us why we are going on our "selfish" trip. 

You can have the most loving marriage in the world and raise kids with love, kindness and passion. This does not guarantee that they will inherit any of this.


----------



## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

We wet the bed til we were around 10 from sheer terror and hoped our mother would save us and just run!

Last I heard they were still happily married 😁 Quite a team they were, we did get thrown under the bus. But then again… I’m pretty sure he would have killed the lot of us if she left… and he would have been the type to kill us and keep her alive, you know, as payback for leaving. But there’s also the other outcome, what would have happened during access visits, if it even got that far. Hmm, makes me wonder?


----------



## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Divorced parents vs loveless marriage?
> 
> My wife and I have the most passionate loving marriage. When we brought our kids to this world we use the same love and passion we have for each other and we hoped they would inherit this love and kindness from us seeing how much their parents love and care for each other. Instead we have loveless, compassionless, heartless, manipulative pricks who do not care for their parents or each other, simply uncapable to love anybody. When we go to romantic getaway for two days to celebrate our 25 years together instead of being happy for us and celebrate with us they become angry and ask us why we are going on our "selfish" trip.
> 
> You can have the most loving marriage in the world and raise kids with love, kindness and passion. This does not guarantee that they will inherit any of this.


Yikes! You don’t love your kids much hey! Did you maybe forget to give some love to the kids while you were busy being so romantic together?


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Depends on the parents. If the marriage is not toxic and they get along ok, then I guess that's better than divorce. My parents got along fine and when and where I grew up divorce was unheard of. Despite providing a stable family environment, I hated my parents because they were very strict and loveless towards me...


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> young children of married couples never wet the bed and teens of married couples are never depressed?
> 
> Noone is arguing that the change in family dynamics won't be stressful and upsetting. But damaging? And long lasting damage and harm???? I think the devil is in the detail on that one.
> 
> ...


These things happened when the marriage broke
up. A four year old who hadnt wet the bed in 2 years suddenly starts when his dad leaves. He was devastated. 
I saw what it did to my neices and nephews when their parents marriages ended. 
It's very damaging to children when their whole security breaks down.


----------



## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

We’re your kids ok Diana?


----------



## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I don’t mean to laugh (but you have to sometimes). It seems most parents mess up their kids whether they divorce, stay married, love eachother or hate eachother 🤷🏻‍♀️


----------



## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> Yikes! You don’t love your kids much hey! Did you maybe forget to give some love to the kids while you were busy being so romantic together?


We do love our children. They may also love us but their action show differently. They have been a priority for us since they were born. My wife ands i left the house together first time when they were three years old. We tried to extend the same love to them we have for each other. We made ourselves available to them physically and emotionally, always praised them for everything positive they did, never compared them to each other. Never blamed them even for their own mistakes. And now we have our daughter who got in minor accident and called us in frantic voice. We tried to calm her, never said a bad word to her. she comes home an hour later (the car was still drivable), we both greet her at the door step wanting to hug and conform her. Instead she immediately yelled at us and rushes upstairs into her room. 

Sometimes I really want them to feel what it means to live with loveless parents or parents who constantly fight so they can feel what they have and do not value at all.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Luckylucky said:


> We’re your kids ok Diana?


Sadly I had little choice but to end my marriage and due to what he had done it wasnt the same as a normal marriage break up being the police were involved etc, but yes the youngest espacially(age 14 then) was desperately unhappy and depressed for a long time.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ElwoodPDowd said:


> Nearly all violent criminals are brought up by single moms.
> I'm not really concerned by bed wetting and depression.


The devil is in the details and specifics. 

They grew up with absentee baby daddys and without a positive male role model or positive male influence in their lives. 

That is different than two loving, supportive and involved parents that happen to live in two separate houses.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Luckylucky said:


> We’re your kids ok Diana?


Sadly I had little choice but to end my marriage and due to what he had done it wasnt the same as a normal marriage break up being the police were involved etc, but yes the youngest especially(age 14 then) was desperately unhappy and depressed for a long time.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> The devil is in the details and specifics.
> 
> They grew up with absentee baby daddys and without a positive male role model or positive male influence in their lives.
> 
> That is different than two loving, supportive and involved parents that happen to live in two separate houses.


Bedwetting is a sign that a child is disturbed and unhappy. Depression can be very serious and even deadly.


ElwoodPDowd said:


> Nearly all violent criminals are brought up by single moms.
> I'm not really concerned by bed wetting and depression.


Bedwetting is a sign that a child is disturbed and unhappy. Depression can be very serious and even deadly.


----------



## ElwoodPDowd (Aug 25, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> They grew up with absentee baby daddys and without a positive male role model or positive male influence in their lives.
> 
> That is different than two loving, supportive and involved parents that happen to live in two separate houses.


Absentee dad is the norm after divorce ............ two loving parents in different homes would be unusual. Usually the woman poisons the kids against the father fairly quickly.
I never bothered trying to see my 4 kids after the divorce, she made it too difficult.
It was easier to find a new wife and have more children, than waste the rest of my life chasing a dream.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ElwoodPDowd said:


> Absentee dad is the norm after divorce ............ two loving parents in different homes would be unusual. Usually the woman poisons the kids against the father fairly quickly.
> I never bothered trying to see my 4 kids after the divorce, she made it too difficult.
> It was easier to find a new wife and have more children, than waste the rest of my life chasing a dream.


Wow, your poor children. How sad. You threw 4 children away and started again.
Actually there are countless parents who both see and help raise their children seperately.
Plus most women don't poison children against their dads, they are not your ex.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Divorced parents vs loveless marriage?
> 
> My wife and I have the most passionate loving marriage. When we brought our kids to this world we use the same love and passion we have for each other and we hoped they would inherit this love and kindness from us seeing how much their parents love and care for each other. Instead we have loveless, compassionless, heartless, manipulative pricks who do not care for their parents or each other, simply uncapable to love anybody. When we go to romantic getaway for two days to celebrate our 25 years together instead of being happy for us and celebrate with us they become angry and ask us why we are going on our "selfish" trip.
> 
> You can have the most loving marriage in the world and raise kids with love, kindness and passion. This does not guarantee that they will inherit any of this.


How old are they??


----------



## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> How old are they??


19, 19 and 12


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

romantic_dreamer said:


> 19, 19 and 12


That is still very young and immature. I bet they will become much more appreciative when they are actually on their own.


----------



## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> That is still very young and immature. I bet they will become much more appreciative when they are actually on their own.


This has nothing to do with maturity. It is simply lack of basic respect and love for their parents who have done nothing but gone above and beyond their entire life for them and tried to give them love they themselves have for each other.

I can't imagine calling my parents' 25 celebration a "selfish" trip. When they did celebrate their 25th anniversary I was happy for them. This is normal reaction of a living child.

You can having loving passionate marriage. It does not mean your children automatically inherit them no matter how much you try.


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

DLC said:


> People always talk about kids got scarred for life from divorced parents, how about from parents with loveless marriage?
> 
> No violence, no fighting, just roommate-style of marriage. Not an open marriage either so there won’t be “daddy’s or mommy’s friend” around the house.
> 
> It‘a not ideal for sure, but would that be a “better” option?


There is no one answer to this. You have to consider how the two of you interact, whether or not you will be seeing someone else, even if you are not now, and how it is or will affect the children. And that last might vary with the children. Better is subjective, so each situation has to be looked at individually. Even with no fighting or violence it could be a bad situation for the kids. Because there will be no love there and at least some kind of hostility or indifference. They might come to take that as normal and healthy. There are many children who came from loveless marriages who did much better after the parents finally divorced.


----------



## NTA (Mar 28, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> divorce in and of itself probably does not hurt kids in the slightest.
> 
> Spare me the statistics of school grades and such between children of divorce of and children of happy intact homes as I do not dispute that a faith-based organisation can come up with statistics to show whatever they want.
> 
> ...


What makes things more difficult that a child with divorced parents will garner sympathy without further explanation.


----------



## NTA (Mar 28, 2021)

Churchill was a child of a loveless marriage. Yeah, that one.
Also, I read that his grandmother had so many affairs that no one was sure who the bio dad of his mother.

And look what he achieved. 

I often think that children of divorced parents are lucky that they have their meltdown earlier in life than other people. They learn early on that they can't depend on their parents. People like me who kept buying into the societal lie ie. your parents only want the best for you; don't figure it out til much later in life.


----------



## 351235 (Sep 9, 2021)

My situation is a little more confrontational than yours sounds, but i worry about what i am teaching them, yes... we have slept in different rooms for 13/14 years of our marriage, we fight all the time, my wife involves them in arguments... etc...

so why am i here? well, that's my choice, right? but my parents also fought a lot. swearing. arguing. and it's kind of "what i know"... granted i'm also working on leaving, so hopefully i can break the cycle. i don't think they are better off with us together.


----------



## DLC (Sep 19, 2021)

I really appreciate your guys charming in and the discussion.
For now, I think I will just sit in this “prison” until the kids are all grown up, probably after they graduate college and on their own. As much as it sucks for me, the last thing I want to do is to make life more difficult for my kids just because “I can’t tough it out”.
That probably means the idea of a “loving” marriage is done for me in this life time. But I guess I will have to focus in other aspect of life in order to make life more fulfilling.


----------



## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> Yikes! You don’t love your kids much hey! Did you maybe forget to give some love to the kids while you were busy being so romantic together?



Are you kidding me? This is your response?


----------



## Erudite (Jan 28, 2015)

So my perspective is rather unique. My kids are 10 years in age difference. My eldest had married/together parents until he turned 20 and is adjusting well to his parents split. My youngest is adjusting very well also even though he had to switch schools and his Dad was living out of a car for a while. All that being said here are 2 things to consider when you are trying to make this decision

1) Your kids' natural temperment and 2) Is it right for you?

Both my kids are very laid back and a bit self absorbed so that helped my decision. But mostly I am a better person now. It was the right decision FOR ME. Sometimes I had to talk to myself like a small child, with a lot of compassion and simple explanations.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

The best outcome for the children would be the loveless marriage. There is plenty of info out there on this subject and the conclusion is pretty clear.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

We saw the crap our dad tolerated and we wished he would find someone who truly showed him love and he would leave our mom and be happy. 

He passed 2 years ago and now she is in big house with her dog. She has a lot of regret now. I try to remember to call her every 2-3 weeks to see how things are going.


----------



## PaulaLamepxm (10 mo ago)

An interesting question, I think there is no difference... If the parents are married, but at the same time there will be constant quarrels and problems in the family - the children will see it, and it won't be good for them. And if the parents are divorced, but at the same time both the mother and father communicate perfectly with the child, then he will feel great. Of course, he will miss his father in the family, but sooner or later, he will get used to it. Another thing is when the children from the organization Foster Plus: Home there is no one except their guardians... And the child will be glad to any parents, even if there are quarrels in the family. Therefore, when someone is sad about his parents' divorce, he should be told that other people do not have parents at all...


----------



## treevid (10 mo ago)

DLC said:


> People always talk about kids got scarred for life from divorced parents, how about from parents with loveless marriage?
> 
> No violence, no fighting, just roommate-style of marriage. Not an open marriage either so there won’t be “daddy’s or mommy’s friend” around the house.
> 
> It‘a not ideal for sure, but would that be a “better” option?


My parents didn't get along and fought often. I remember being relieved when they finally divorced when I was in high school. They remarried and are both in happy marriages now. The one thing I wish they had done was sat me down, explained it wasn't my fault, and explained the reasons they were getting divorced. My parents still don't get along with each other and I wish they could be decent with one another. Please keep these things in mind to help your kids process, if you do divorce.

(edit: spelling error)


----------

