# Will my wife and I ever be on the same page?



## njpca (Jan 22, 2010)

Hello All,

Well it's been quite a long road for my marriage in just over two years now. My wife and I have gone through multiple instances of separation, depression, anxiety, counseling, and all thrown into the fire were instant children. Within the last couple of months we moved back closer to where she was staying and have been trying to build back the relationship.

She currently still sleeps at her Dad's but spends most days and evenings at our apartment. We have been trying to spend quality time together but there is still some lingering issues. 

The bottom line is my wife and I are fairly different people. She is prides herself on being an academic and intellectual. She is into reading and writing, etc. I enjoy more entertainment based things (television, film, games, music). She is not very active, mainly because she has bad back and asthma problems, while I love going outside and doing physical things. She also suffers terrible allergies which keeps her cooped inside by default. 

We don't have a lot of money anymore because she doesn't work and became a full time caretaker to her two cousins, and we get no financial support in their care. That leaves us limited on the activities front.

So when the weekends come around, it is hard to find something we can both enjoy to do together and it's making her think that I'm not trying hard enough to make the situation better. She gets frustrated because I also don't make passionate advances on her enough and ends up feeling very insecure with herself.

Most of the time all we do is run errands. We have little care and support to allow us to do much alone. There has been poor communication within my family and haven't spoken to them in several months. Her father is old, crotchety and stubborn and does not want to help often with taking care of the children.

I am getting the feeling that nothing is going to get better, no matter how happy she becomes. She feels I am not trying hard enough in this marriage, that I am too focused at work, and feels that I don't love and care about her.

I am not sure what can be done. I want to start by trying to do things enjoyable together again, but I feel there are too many barriers and hurdles for that to happen. I want her to be happy but not sure anymore what is going to make her happy with so many things against her.

Does anybody have advice to try to improve our situation? I have many threads that I have written if there is confusion about my situation.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

One big difference from my situation that I see as a great opportunity is how you say "She feels I am not trying hard enough in this marriage, that I am too focused at work, and feels that I don't love and care about her."

From my POV you have all the power here. Find out what she needs, her love language, read Marriage Fitness and practice the little things and make them habits. If I was on your end of that comment, I would be all over it to make it right.

From what I see, If you want it, it is yours for the taking.

All the best to you!


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

njpca said:


> it's making her think that I'm not trying hard enough to make the situation better. She gets frustrated because I also don't make passionate advances on her enough and ends up feeling very insecure with herself.
> 
> She feels I am not trying hard enough in this marriage, that I am too focused at work, and feels that I don't love and care about her.


This is a trap. She expects YOU to fix it, wants YOU to make the situation better, wants YOU to make HER more secure, wants YOU to try harder, wants YOU to be more passionate, etc.

Life doesn't work this way. What is SHE doing to make her life better? Waiting for someone to do it for you never works.


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## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

Are these your kids? And why is she taking care of cousins?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

You’re bringing home the bacon and putting bread on the table for her and her two cousins and she’s the one that’s miffed!

She sounds pretty insane to me. But then you must question your own sanity for being in such a situation and not only getting grief but getting little reward for it as well.


She should be curtsying with a warm pair of slippers in her hand and a hot meal on the table when you walk through the door after work.


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

_*"She currently still sleeps at her Dad's but spends most days and evenings at our apartment."*_Tell her to move back or move on. All your doing is accommodating her indecisiveness. She gets all the benefits with none of the work.

Is she married to you or her Dad? You'll never fix any issue by trying to have half a marriage and sharing your wife with another man (even her Dad)


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## njpca (Jan 22, 2010)

TIM - I would agree with you on those aspects. I have been trying to make things better. I have eliminated communication with my family for her sake. I have made numerous attempts to make sure to arrive home earlier. I do not hang or attempt to hang with friends so I can make an effort to focus my time on her. Things that I am trying to do more is thank her more often, acknowledge her feelings, and show that I care. There are still things that are not up to par. Part of the problem is that she uses Facebook as a means of comparison. When she's people say or do things, it reminds her that I don't live up to what others do and have to find ways to make up for them.

Mavash - She does not have the capacity or ability to go out and do things on her own. She feels she is trapped with the caring of these children so she has set aside all her hopes and dreams for the care of them. She has tried multiple times to write and go back to school, but she feels there is no support system from anybody (including me). I don't have a job that is easy to leave early often and I now work over an hour away from our home so it so difficult to try to pitch in and help with the care that she is needing.

Unhappy - No, they are not our children. They are her second cousins. The mother (her first cousin) abandoned them both and so she wanted to swoop in and help them because they were being passed around by family members. The older one has a father, but he only wants visitation and doesn't pay any child support. As for the younger one, nobody knows who the father is.

AFEH - She does make meals and often leaves them for me when I get home. She controls all of the money and budgets everything so I don't really have any choice but for her to make the food. The way she sees it though, is that I am not putting enough in for a lot of her expenses and the childrens care, so she seems to be resentful of that. The budget does not afford us a lot anyway so it's always been difficult to fit them in when she is not working.

What do people do to make a fullfilling relationship when there is no support in taking care of children and little to no money to easily make an effort in a relationship?


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## Chuckp47 (Nov 11, 2011)

Let me see if I got this right. She doesn't live with you. She controls the money you worked for, she takes care of her deadbeat family's kids while you severed contact with your family for her. She is unwilling and as you make it sound, unable to work or do the thing you enjoy.

what exactly do you get out of this relationship?

Make a list, on one side what is good. On the other what you wish you could change. Then show it to her. Demand change but be prepared for her to fight. Because you already know she won't change. And btw, I know many people with allergies and asthma, they still go outside...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## njpca (Jan 22, 2010)

I think it's to the point that neither of us is going to change any further than we already. She feels that she has done all the changing to make things work. She stopped going to school for the sake of us not being able to move for my job and I believe she will never live that down because of how important she feels towards it.

Also, how can I tell her to just move back in. I am the reason she left in the first place, so if she doensn't have the trust and support she craves, how do I have the power to make such a demand?


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## dontpanic (Feb 23, 2012)

Dear NJPCA,
I'm not sure why I think that you will listen to me, but I have to give it a try.

I have had clinical depression since puberty and have a very emotionally needy and dependent personality (dysfunctional upbringing, screwed up family, bad genes, etc. ) I relate to your wife's personality. I am also a giver and get why she took in the cousins kids.

I have been in IC and on meds for 14 yrs and in MC for 2.5 yrs. This is what I have learned:

You need to stop trying to solve your wife's problems. This will not make your marriage work. She is not facing the reality of her life and she is not making responsible decisions. She is blaming you because she needs to blame someone.

If you truly believe that neither of you can change "any further than we have already", then your marriage is over - do not pass go - just divorce and get it over with. The biggest area where you both MUST CHANGE is to improve your communication.

You need MC desperately. NOT with her IC who is biased towards her. You need a trusted 3rd party who can help you discuss your issues. Your wife has not actually "married" you. She is still trying to live in her birth home in her past role (caretaker of her father, caretaker of her cousins kids) and has not actually tried to be married to you.

Marriage is not about having "the power to make such a demand?" It is give and take for the sake of a committed relationship. How the h*** can she demand that the cousins kids be homeschooled, that she control the finances, that she live with her dad, that "of course" she will need to be a caretaker for her dad as he gets older, etc. She is constantly making demands and decisions and she will continue to railroad over your needs so long as you let her. TAKE IT FROM SOMEONE WHO KNOWS - You can try and try and try, but you will never be able to meet her needs. 

No one can make someone else happy. Your wife is too immature to realize this and she has not taken control of her own life and her own happiness. You make the money - therefore you control her. Her dad runs the trust fund - therefore he controls her. The kids need so much attention/care - therefore they control her time. She has no control over anything, so her misery must also be someone else's fault.


Tell her that if she wants to have a future WITH YOU, then she will join you in marriage counseling. If not, you really need to think about why you are staying in such a self-destructive and unfulfilling relationship with someone with whom you share little in common. Seek an IC for yourself at the very least. Sliding scale and/or close to your work.

PLEASE DON'T MAKE THE MISTAKE OF THINKING THAT YOU CAN MAKE HER HAPPY. 

You sound like a good guy. My husband is also a good guy. For years and years he tried to make me happy. The only progress that we ever made was when he finally realized that he needed to stop trying to make me happy and work on making himself happy. He lost weight, moved up at work, and we are in MC and separated. We may not end up together, but at least now we are communicating honestly with each other.

But working on a relationship requires TWO committed adults. It is a painful and difficult journey: prepare yourself that she may not be ready to grow up and cut the umbilical cord to her dysfunctional family.

Good luck. Feel free to PM me if you want further feedback. 

Please take care of yourself. Be strong!


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

njpca said:


> I think it's to the point that neither of us is going to change any further than we already. She feels that she has done all the changing to make things work. She stopped going to school for the sake of us not being able to move for my job and I believe she will never live that down because of how important she feels towards it.
> 
> Also, how can I tell her to just move back in. I am the reason she left in the first place, so if she doensn't have the trust and support she craves, how do I have the power to make such a demand?


You should be all the reason she needs to move back in. How can she build trust and get support when she is not living there to recive it.

There are plenty of things you can do together. Give her some allergie medication, take the kids to a play ground, and she can bring some books and lunch. You can get up and play with the kids then rest with her and a book. Just combind your interest. It is a relationship so that is what you do. Heck cooking together can be your together thing, just do something. smthumbup:


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

njpca said:


> The bottom line is my wife and I are fairly different people.


No, NJPCA, the bottom line is that you are describing a wife with such serious emotional issues that she behaves like a spoiled 3-year old. Although that has been obvious to a dozen posters in your ten threads, you have steadfastly refused to believe them. Two years ago, Tunera told you "Your wife needs professional help. She will suck you dry with her emotional issues and unwillingness to accept responsibility.... you shouldn't spoil a 3 year old by giving in to their tantrums." 

Ten months ago, Staircase got so exasperated with your doomed efforts to please your W that she wrote "I would smack you upside the head if you were here." Last week, AFEH described your W's behavior as "pretty insane" and Mavesh warned "This is a trap." Earlier today, DontPanic advised you against making the mistake of "thinking you can make her happy."

The behaviors you describe -- frequent blame-shifting, temper tantrums, threats of suicide, emotional instability, verbal abuse, flipping between adoring and devaluing you, inability to trust you, and fear of abandonment -- are classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has. 

Whether those traits are so severe as to satisfy 100% of the diagnostic criteria for having full-blown BPD is a determination that only a professional can make. This does not imply, however, that you cannot spot the red flags, i.e., strong occurrences of such traits. There is nothing subtle about traits such as emotional instability, inability to trust, and pretending to be a perpetual victim. Given your 2 year history with her, it should be easy for you to spot the red flags for such traits. I therefore suggest you read more about them so you know what to look for.


> I have eliminated communication with my family for her sake.... haven't spoken to them in several months.... I do not hang or attempt to hang with friends.


Because BPDers (i.e., those having strong BPD traits) have a great fear of abandonment, one of the _very first things_ they will do after the honeymoon period ends is to isolate you from all family members and close friends. BPDers typically are very jealous of the time a spouse spends with those people. Moreover, to prevent abandonment, they will try to control all aspects of your daily life. Such control is easier to achieve, of course, if you have no friends or family around who may say things like "That's the most ridiculous excuse I've ever heard."

Hence, if your W has moderate to strong BPD traits, it is not surprising that she cut your family off by refusing to invite them to your wedding. Specifically, "She had her opinions about my family previously and how they can be "enmeshed" too much in our lives. After discussing it further we decided to elope without them knowing." (1/22/10 post.)

And she cut your friends off immediately following the wedding, claiming they had offended her (an outcome easy to achieve by her first doing something to offend them). She has successfully eliminated all your support base. Indeed, she even insisted that you get rid of your dog.


> She does a great job of controlling conversations but poor job handling her emotions. (8/4/11 post.)


BPDers are very controlling of their loved ones and, as you say, they do a "poor job handling their emotions." This inability to regulate their own emotions is such a hallmark of BPDers that a sizeable portion of the psychiatric community has been lobbying for two decades to change the name of the disorder from "BPD" to "Emotional Dysregulation Disorder."


> For my wife, it seems that therapy is supposed to do that, but all it's done is for her to get validation in all her emotions. (8/4/11 post)


One of the primary tasks in therapy provided to BPDers is to validate their emotions. Validation is extremely important to them because typically they had childhoods in which a parent declined to validate their feelings. Indeed, 70% of BPDers report that they were abused or abandoned in childhood.


> Her family is really messed up. Her parents got divorced years ago. But her mother does not work and hops from boyfriend to boyfriend.


Like I said, 70% of BPDers have a bad childhood. Significantly, most abused children do not develop BPD. Such treatment, however, GREATLY raises the risk for doing so.


> I am getting the feeling that nothing is going to get better, no matter how happy she becomes. She feels I am not trying hard enough in this marriage, that I ...don't love and care about her.


BPDers are convinced they are victims and thus refuse to accept responsibility for their own actions. To validate that false self image, you must play one of two roles -- or a BPDer will walk out on you. One role is being "the savior," a role you played for a few months when she was initially infatuated with you. You will occasionally reprise that role for a day or two when she is splitting you white -- an event that will get farther and farther apart. 

While you are "the savior," you are of value not because you are saving her from anything but, rather, because you are validating her false self image. Obviously, if she has to be "saved" from something, she must be "the victim" in need of saving. 

BPDers do not really want to be "saved" from anything, however. If that happened, a BPDer would cease being "the victim." If you doubt that, simply look at what happens every time you rush in to pull her from the raging seas: as soon as you turn your head, she jumps right back into the water -- coming up immediately with yet another danger you must save her from.

The only other role you are allowed to play is that of "the perpetrator," i.e., the cause of every misfortune to befall her. Again, the obvious implication is that she is a poor, helpless "victim" because you are the source of all her problems. Amazingly, guys like you and me will put up with this for years because the BPDer spouse will allow us to be "the savior" for a day or two every four or five weeks -- just often enough to keep us trapped in the toxic relationship.


> What I'm really trying to figure out that despite everything, is there something I can do to regain her trust? (5/22/11 post.)


If she has strong BPD traits, you never had her trust to begin with. Absent years of treatment, BPDers are incapable of trusting you for any extended period (but they can do so sporadically -- it just cannot last). The problem is not trusting you. Rather, it is that she is unable to love or trust HERSELF. Until she learns to do that, she cannot trust other adults.


> I want her to be happy but not sure anymore what is going to make her happy with so many things against her.


If she is a BPDer, it is IMPOSSIBLE to make her feel happy for more than a day or two. Her reality is the intense feelings flooding through her mind. They wash aside all previous feelings she had for you. 

This is why it is a fool's errand to try to build up a store of appreciation or good will on which you could draw during the bad times. Trying to build a store of appreciation in a BPDer is as foolish as trying to build a lasting sandcastle beside the sea. It will be washed aside by the next emotional tide.


> The main reason we have to live separately is a health issue. Before she left, she had serious anxiety attacks that led her to not function properly. She says that because of how I act and my attitude, this creates her anxiety.(5/22/11 post.)


Like depression, anxiety is a side effect that most BPDers suffer. Moreover, if she has strong BPD traits, she had an anxiety problem long before she met you.


> She can't stick with anything. ... She also did this several times before I even met her, changing her goals and school plans from previous bad job experiences.(5/22/11 post.)


BPDers lack an internal compass to guide them in their choice of goals because they have such weak egos that they are unsure of who they really are. They therefore seek out a partner who will ground them and give them a sense of direction. When you try to do that, however, they will bitterly complain that you're trying to "control" them. 

Actually, they are the ones who are so controlling and they project that desperate need to control onto you. Like your W, my exW was frequently changing her mind. She talked me into buying her an expensive piano, for example, and then she played it only 5 times. I could give you a list of her expensive hobbies, all of which were abandoned within two months.


> Does anybody have advice to try to improve our situation?


NJPCA, I cannot tell you whether your W has most of the nine BPD traits at a strong level. I've never met the woman. I nonetheless am confident you can spot the red flags that occur. Before you graduated high school, you already could identify the selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. 

Likewise, you already could identify the class drama queen -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD. You could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And you could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD. Similarly, you will be able to spot strong BPD traits when they occur.

If this discussion rings a bell, NJPCA, I suggest you read my description of BPD traits in Maybe's thread at My list of hell!. The behavior of his controlling, unhappy W is very similar to that of your own W. If those behavioral traits sound familiar, I would be glad to discuss them with you and point you to excellent online resources. Take care, NJPCA.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

NJ,

What was her childhood like?

Please tell us all you know about her first 10 years.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Unhappy2011 said:


> Are these your kids? And why is she taking care of cousins?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly! She is so full of hypocrisy I don't see how she can do it with a straight face.

She is the one not having a job to care for her cousins, yet you are the one who is ignoring the family? BTW, in case she needs a reminder, the family is you and your wife and not the kids.

So now you have gone from a two income, two person family to a one income, four person family? If you were not work focused, how does she imagine the bills would be paid? And (if you want to go there) what would she do if you got fed up and checked out of the marriage?

Two things need to happen. One, you need to relieve the stress on yourself. If you are taking care of the kids because no one else can do it, you should be the legal guardians and get whatever child support and / or state aid is coming to you. Or, send the kids back to their parents.

Then, once you are not under the stress of solely providing for a family of four (including your extremely selfish wife), you can devote your energy to straightening out your home life.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

njpca said:


> Also, how can I tell her to just move back in. I am the reason she left in the first place, so if she doensn't have the trust and support she craves, how do I have the power to make such a demand?


You do not tell her to move back in. You simply state that you refuse to be a part of this dysfunction any longer.

You take back your paycheck (change the direct deposit or get a paper check), get a new bank account, cancel all joint credit cards, etc. You go see a lawyer and determine your rights and responsibilities (i.e. you might be legally separated if she moved out). This is not prepping for divorce - it is protecting yourself from a very self-centered and unrealistic person.

From that point, she has a decision to make. She can either be a single mom to her cousins, or she can decide to be a good wife to you and learn how to balance the demands of adulthood just as any mature adult must. Further, you will assume that she chooses to remain apart from you unless you see clear evidence that she is actually working on being able to treat you well (at this point, her saying "I'm trying" is not adequate).


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## njpca (Jan 22, 2010)

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and advice. It has been a long and difficult road and most of the time I don't feel that anyone out there understands what I'm going through.

Don't Panic - Thank you for sharing your story and thoughts as it seems you understand the things my wife is going through. I am just not sure how and if we will go back to some counseling. We have gone to a total of 4 different counselors (two for the family issues, one for our marriage and currently she is seeing her own that I went to on several occassions.

The MC that we did together I thought would be helpful. However, as soon as he mentioned that she might have hastily taken custody of the kids, she wouldn't have it and we didn't return after only one session. She gets her validation from her counselor so pretty much all the time, I am the one in the wrong. I considered going to my own IC but the cost is very tough and she believes that if I start going I will probably leave her for good.

Kurosity - Thanks for the advice, I agree that she does and we are working toward that.

Uptown - Yes, I have struggled back and forth on the concept that she suffers from some form of BPD. The main arguement I recant though is how can any psychiatrist not make an effort to point out these things to her and help her. All she does in her sessions is talk about my problems, how I am emotionally abusive to her and suffer Narcissitic disorders. If she truly holds so much of these traits, why has she never been diagnosed through all her problems? Thank you for taking the time to point out multiple instances from my threads.

Conrad - Going off Uptown's post. Up until 7 years old her life was very normal. Her dad worked hard and long days and her mom was stay at home fulltime taking care. There marriage fell apart, I think because her mother had some mid life crisis and she moved far away from them. She would only see her mother in the summertime and her father raised from then on. Her mom traveled over, jumping from one man to the next and fully denying any care in rasing her daughter. She has also been in a physically abusive relationship for several years.

DTO - Just to clarify, we have never been a two income family. When we first lived together and married she was still going to school but we had an argument about our plans and then she decided to quit school and try to figure something out. Very shortly after that she thought it would be a good idea to help out these children.

I don't know what she would do if I left. She has threatened to obviously to seek spousal support. She also says things that she would have to go on welfare if we divorced.

My wife is the legal guardian for both of them. The father of the older child does not pay child support but has visitation rights. My wife even went to a lawyer to see what could be done but since she is not the parent, she doesn't have the full right to press for full custody and there is very little money to make an effort to force for child support. It wouldn't help anyway since he is broke and living with his parents. My wife said that we are not eligble for state aid because I make just enough for us to not qualify. 

We can't just drop the kids back. The mom is gone, and we don't even know who the father is of the younger child.

We don't have any joint accounts at all. I just give her my paycheck and then she distributes it as needed to all of our bills and such.

I am going to have take all of this stuff into consideration. I honestly would love to get my own IC to straighen my head. I feel so lost and rudderless. All I am doing is living day in and out in hopes that she believes things are getting better and just being as careful as possible not to screw things up


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

^ Wakeup!!!


Take total and absolute control of your money, your finances. Do not abdicate your financial responsibilities to your wife!


Know exactly where every single cent is going. Know your cost base and take absolute control of dispensing your money and paying the bills.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

njpca said:


> She gets her validation from her counselor so pretty much all the time, I am the one in the wrong.


NJPCA, the vast majority of BPDers are high functioning. If your W is a HF BPDer, it would be difficult for a psychologist to diagnose her. (If she were low functioning, you would not have been dating her, much less marrying her.) Because BPDers are convinced they are victims, they typically go to therapy and complain bitterly about their spouses. It could take years for a psych to see the type of behaviors you see all week long. 

Moreover, BPDers tend to be excellent actors because -- having only a fragile sense of who they are -- they've been acting (in order to fit in) ever since childhood. It therefore is a cakewalk for a BPDer to behave very normally during the 50 minute sessions held once a week.


> How can any psychiatrist not make an effort to point out [her BPD traits] to her and help her.... If she truly holds so much of these traits, why has she never been diagnosed through all her problems?


As I said, it can be difficult to spot the BPD traits in a clinical setting when the client is a HF BPDer. Further, even when the traits are identified, there is very little chance that the therapist will tell the client (much less tell her husband). For HF BPDers, therapists are loath to list "BPD" as the diagnosis even when it is clearly warranted.

One reason is that they know the BPDer almost certainly will immediately quit therapy on hearing such a dreaded diagnosis. You've already seen that behavior in your W when she immediately quit the counselor who disagreed with her on one occasion.

A second reason is, in the unlikely event the client returns to therapy, giving her the name of her disorder can actually make her behavior much worse. Because a BPDer has a fragile self image, she is frequently relying on other people to ground her and give her a sense of self identity. This means that, if the therapist tells her she is "a BPDer," she may start exhibiting all 9 BPD traits instead of just 5 or 6.

A third reason is that therapists know that insurance companies usually refuse to cover BPD treatments. The standard practice, then, is to list the "diagnosis" instead as one of the side effects of BPD -- i.e., as anxiety, depression, PTSD, or adult ADHD.

I mention this because, if your W is a HF BPDer, there is very little chance you will ever hear about it from HER therapist. I say this after having spent a small fortune to take my exW to six different psychologists -- none of whom ever mentioned "BPD." The closest they ever came to telling me the true diagnosis was one psych who, on my insistence, conceded she has "a thought disorder." The psych my exW saw for the last 5 years of our marriage always refused to tell me the diagnosis, claiming that she believed "labels are not useful." 

Remember, NJPCA, your W's therapist is _not your friend._ Like an attorney, he is ethically bound to protect his sick client -- even if you occasionally attend the sessions with your W. Hence, relying on her _therapist's_ advice during the marriage is as foolish as relying on her _attorney's_ advice during a divorce.

This is why I've been encouraging you to read about BPD traits so you are able to spot all the red flags. And this is why I suggest you see _your own_ psychologist -- for a visit or two -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. If you would like to read more about BPD traits on this forum, NJPCA, please follow the link I provided above.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I see some things never change. While you can't change your wife, it is within your power to STOP enabling her behavior. I have read all of your posts. It's just so sad to see what this woman has done to your head. Please don't push friends and family away. You really need them in your life. 




njpca said:


> I don't know what she would do if I left. She has threatened to obviously to seek spousal support. She also says things that she would have to go on welfare if we divorced.


She probably won't get much alimony or child support out of you at this point. Even then, it would probably be of short duration. However, keep hanging around for another 15 or so years and it will be a big factor--possibly higher percentage of your salary and PERMANENT.


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