# Eye opening and surprising...



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

I have been reading mostly in the surviving infidelity forum but took a look in the sex in marriage forum. I was genuinely shocked by how many marriages are sexless. People saying they go months without sex. Some even years. I will preface this by saying as someone whose husband cheated, I wonder why some of these clearly tortured souls don’t cheat. My husband had a regular stream of sex. Normal ups and downs over the years...But never did he go longer than 2 weeks without physical intimacy. I knew very early on how much it meant to him. I always tried to satisfy him even when I was angry or hurt. To see the complete disregard that some people endure under the guise of a “good marriage” was eye opening. I’m not sure if I have a question or this is simply musings but the expression that so many people live lives of quiet desperation comes to mind...
The pain that resonates off the pages is palpable and on more than a few threads I thought if only these poor souls spouses could really see the pain they are causing the person they love and realize how insanely lucky they are that they are not being cheated on.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> I have been reading mostly in the surviving infidelity forum but took a look in the sex in marriage forum. I was genuinely shocked by how many marriages are sexless.


Keep in mind, most people come here when they are having problems in their marriage. The "sex in marriage" posts are all going to be full of sex issues, obviously. So just because a lot of people here are in sexless marriages (or have any other variety of problems) doesn't mean most marriages are like that. 

A lot of people in sexless marriages are doing it to themselves, whether they want to see that or not. Some refuse to have serious conversations with their spouse about it, so their spouses may not be aware of just how big of an issue it is and how much pain it causes. Some refuse to make changes that they need to in the marriage, whether that's things they need to do differently or putting their foot down, etc. Some refuse to end the marriage and just complain about it for years and years. 

The spouse shouldn't be glad they are not being cheated on... They should be glad they are not divorced. A sexless marriage isn't a reason to cheat. At least not in my book.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

bobert said:


> Keep in mind, most people come here when they are having problems in their marriage. The "sex in marriage" posts are all going to be full of sex issues, obviously. So just because a lot of people here are in sexless marriages (or have any other variety of problems) doesn't mean most marriages are like that.
> 
> A lot of people in sexless marriages are doing it to themselves, whether they want to see that or not. Some refuse to have serious conversations with their spouse about it, so their spouses may not be aware of just how big of an issue it is and how much pain it causes. Some refuse to make changes that they need to in the marriage, whether that's things they need to do differently or putting their foot down, etc. Some refuse to end the marriage and just complain about it for years and years.
> 
> The spouse shouldn't be glad they are not being cheated on... They should be glad they are not divorced. A sexless marriage isn't a reason to cheat. At least not in my book.


There really never is a good reason to cheat. That I agree. It just seems heartbreaking.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Those people have a choice, we all do. They can walk away or endure a lifetime of pain and resentment. No different than taking a cheater back. It’s the fear that holds people to crappy marriages. Fear of financial ruin, being alone or thinking their kids won’t be able to handle it.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Yeah I think married sex is over rated.

And I agree with RebuidingMe to a point but in reality, I think very few folks even if the get divorced find someone they are 100% compatible with and remain unhappy in their married sex life to some extent. 

Its not just here either as I read on other sites and the number of unhappy sex lives is rampant there too. Out of all my guy friends (maybe 20 total) only two claim to have a good sex life.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> There really never is a good reason to cheat. That I agree. It just seems heartbreaking.


I agree but I will say if the opportunity presented itself, it would be hard for me to resist.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Yeah I think married sex is over rated.
> 
> And I agree with RebuidingMe to a point but in reality, I think very few folks even if the get divorced find someone they are 100% compatible with and remain unhappy in their married sex life to some extent.
> 
> Its not just here either as I read on other sites and the number of unhappy sex lives is rampant there too. Out of all my guy friends (maybe 20 total) only two claim to have a good sex life.


Sex life with a gf is far more frequent and exciting than sex with a wife, hands down. Anyone who tells you different needs to find a new gf.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> Sex life with a gf is far more frequent and exciting than sex with a wife, hands down. Anyone who tells you different needs to find a new gf.


I think thats the key though as you and I have mentioned before....its a GF and NOT a wife. A GF wants to have sex and a wife doesn't! Whenever I do get divorced, I will never have a wife again but WILL have a GF!!!


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I think thats the key though as you and I have mentioned before....its a GF and NOT a wife. A GF wants to have sex and a wife doesn't! Whenever I do get divorced, I will never have a wife again but WILL have a GF!!!


Absolutely. A wife has her spouse locked up. She no longer need to impress, and often won’t. It may take years, but complacency will always set in to a marriage. She will focus on the kids and the man gets shoved aside. Now a gf has to keep working at it or she gets a next. There’s dates and alone times with no kids around. Keeps things fresh. I give credit to the ones that can do that in a marriage. Unfortunately, I read somewhere that it’s about only 13% of marriages that still have a romantic love for one another after 8 years and only 2% feel an obsession for each other. Pathetic statistics.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> Absolutely. A wife has her spouse locked up. She no longer need to impress, and often won’t. It may take years, but complacency will always set in to a marriage. She will focus on the kids and the man gets shoved aside. Now a gf has to keep working at it or she gets a next. There’s dates and alone times with no kids around. Keeps things fresh. I give credit to the ones that can do that in a marriage. Unfortunately, I read somewhere that it’s about only 13% of marriages that still have a romantic love for one another after 8 years and only 2% feel an obsession for each other. Pathetic statistics.


I agree with those stats. I have said before I bet most marriages have pretty crappy sex lives.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

There may not be a _good _reason to cheat, but there are many reasons that are sufficient, apparently. Fixing a relationship or leaving can be difficult and take too much time when you are hurting or in need of affection and attention. Those may not be _good_ reasons, but are sufficient for many.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> I have been reading mostly in the surviving infidelity forum but took a look in the sex in marriage forum. I was genuinely shocked by how many marriages are sexless. People saying they go months without sex. Some even years. I will preface this by saying as someone whose husband cheated, I wonder why some of these clearly tortured souls don’t cheat. My husband had a regular stream of sex. Normal ups and downs over the years...But never did he go longer than 2 weeks without physical intimacy. I knew very early on how much it meant to him. I always tried to satisfy him even when I was angry or hurt. To see the complete disregard that some people endure under the guise of a “good marriage” was eye opening. I’m not sure if I have a question or this is simply musings but the expression that so many people live lives of quiet desperation comes to mind...
> The pain that resonates off the pages is palpable and on more than a few threads I thought if only these poor souls spouses could really see the pain they are causing the person they love and realize how insanely lucky they are that they are not being cheated on.


For most, I think that the loss of physical intimacy comes as a dysfunctional act of emotional withdrawal. I experienced this in my marriage. My wife had received criticism from me which was an unhealthy way for me to interact with her. Rather than get at what it was that was wrong with our emotional connection, she withdrew. At first she withdrew from things that might draw criticism. Then she withdrew tasks she normally did for me. Eventually, she withdrew from physical intimacy...and yes, at the end it was about two years since she had ventured to reach across to my side of the bed. Her withdrawal was a means of protection from emotional harm in the beginning, but in the end it was a very destructive force. She did not resolve her feelings of being mistreated by confronting me with those feelings. Instead she withdrew and in her withdrawal developed contempt for me. I lived in a sad and lonely world of her contempt until she decided that divorce was her best option. I think by the time a woman stops being intimate, she has probably decided that the marriage is over.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

OnwardNUpward said:


> For most, I think that the loss of physical intimacy comes as a dysfunctional act of emotional withdrawal. I experienced this in my marriage. My wife had received criticism from me which was an unhealthy way for me to interact with her. Rather than get at what it was that was wrong with our emotional connection, she withdrew. At first she withdrew from things that might draw criticism. Then she withdrew tasks she normally did for me. Eventually, she withdrew from physical intimacy...and yes, at the end it was about two years since she had ventured to reach across to my side of the bed. Her withdrawal was a means of protection from emotional harm in the beginning, but in the end it was a very destructive force. She did not resolve her feelings of being mistreated by confronting me with those feelings. Instead she withdrew and in her withdrawal developed contempt for me. I lived in a sad and lonely world of her contempt until she decided that divorce was her best option. I think by the time a woman stops being intimate, she has probably decided that the marriage is over.


Interesting story.

Sorry to hijack, but can I ask... she never ONCE made it clear you were hurting her and in her withdrawal you think she is at fault for you pain? Women tend to speak up a lot (or nag!) and get very vocal about what their needs are and when they want abuse to stop. 

Foe example, we also have lots of stories here about spouses that are treated in the way that you treated your wife. And what people advise them to do once they’ve suffered so much.

Were you aware of your terrible treatment of her before her withdrawal? It sounds like it was so gradual and that she was mistreated so poorly that it must have taken a lot to get to where she did. In which case I genuinely would like to know whether she never ever told you, asked you, set boundaries? Did you ask You have remarkable insight into the timeline and all of her coping methods.

Can we agree that you were the destructive force rather than her withdrawal being a destructive force?

I’m genuinely curious, and it sounds like you are in a lot of pain having lost her?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I agree with those stats. I have said before I bet most marriages have pretty crappy sex lives.



I hate to rain on the self defeating pity party but there’s no reason most men can’t have a sexually satisfying marriage. The thing is you need to be (or become) a man that your wife respects and is attracted to.

I realize that a lot of married people have crappy sex lives, but a lot have good, passionate, sexual marriages too. I know there are some wives that are just horrible and irreparably non-sexual with their husbands - but most are not. Most wives can be very sexual and affectionate, but you need to inspire and lead that behavior. You do that by being attractive (and I don’t just mean physically) and not being unattractive. 

That takes work. You have to lead. You have to be the leader in your marriage. You need to set strong boundaries and expectations. Women (and probably men as well) will act as badly as you let them, so don’t allow bad behavior. You get what you tolerate. 

You actually have to do the work to be continually improve yourself - for yourself. Focus on getting better as a man and a human. The rest tends to follow. Have your own purpose, outside of your wife and family. 

Be as attractive as possible. Get to the gym and lift heavy things, take care of yourself, learn to flirt and be charming. Be strong - emotionally, mentally and physically. Be playful and fun. Be confident - and if you’re not, act like it and keep improving yourself until you are. Have boundaries and standards.

Stop being unattractive. Don’t be weak, needy, whiny, emotionally reactive, easily offended or rattled. Women are turned off by men they see as weak.

The above is generally effective in inspiring respect and attraction and sexuality from women - including your wife. And at this point, if your wife still thinks you’re useless and doesn’t want to have sex with you, she’ll be easy to replace with someone who does want you.

Or you could just keep complaining about how your sexless marriage sucks and look for validation and commiserating, but choosing not to actually take action to take control of your situation and fix it.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I was genuinely shocked by how many marriages are sexless. People saying they go months without sex. Some even years. I wonder why some of these clearly tortured souls don’t cheat.
> I thought if only these poor souls spouses could really see the pain they are causing the person they love and realize how insanely lucky they are that they are not being cheated on.


I often think the same thing. 

A simple answer might be that not all people put a high value on intimacy.
Yet, healthy people certainly do. 

Health itself, includes both physical and one's mental health, as _well_.
Well?

Hah! It might be better said, that the need for intimacy changes over time, and any thought of normal would take into account a persons age and general health. 

One's body chemistry plays a part in sexual desire. 

Reference those demanding hormones. 
If they are low-life absent, or coolly displaying, then that hot desire never shows its blushing, red face.

Umm.

One (sad) answer might be that some sex-deprived spouses are very loyal, to the point of being martyrs.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

I also never understood why people chose to stay in a sexless marriage. Is there an appeal to being a martyr? If one has done all they can do to try to respark the intimate portion of a marriage and has gotten no response it seems that they would have only two options left.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m not sure if I have a question or this is simply musings but the expression that so many people live lives of quiet desperation comes to mind...


The greater tragedy is those who find themselves in such misery, are actually choosing that misery. I don't get why they volunteer for it. Who knows maybe they are masochists at heart, or perhaps they know deep down that they are a massive contributor to why their sex lives suck?



FloridaGuy1 said:


> Yeah I think married sex is over rated.


Sex is just sex. Of which I've shared lots of it and in my experience, sex is no different married or otherwise and nor should it be.



FloridaGuy1 said:


> And I agree with RebuidingMe to a point but in reality, I think very few folks even if the get divorced find someone they are 100% compatible with and remain unhappy in their married sex life to some extent.


Why does one feel they need 100% compatibility or that such a thing is possible let alone probable, I certainly don't. Yet both of my marriages respectively, were and are tremendously rich and fun sexually.



FloridaGuy1 said:


> I agree but I will say if the opportunity presented itself, it would be hard for me to resist.


That's so passive!

If you want more, then apply yourself by seeking and creating such opportunities to then have at it.



RebuildingMe said:


> Sex life with a gf is far more frequent and exciting than sex with a wife, hands down. Anyone who tells you different needs to find a new gf.


The level of excitement is only as good as those involved, of which a girlfriend can be as lame as a dud wife, in the same way a husband can be as lame as a dud boyfriend.

I certainly never had any hesitation in dumping any woman I dated/ had sex on meeting/ or who was my ongoing girlfriend. If I found the sex to be subpar, or grew bored with them. In fact with extremely rare exception I was always the dumper rather than the dumpee.

Oh and more generally if a man or woman desires a tremendous, rich and sustained sex life with all the bells and whistles. They should understand that reciprocal desire for such things, is better served by being a tremendous sexual partner, who is great (skilled/talented) at delivering all the sexual bells and whistles. If someone is less than that sexually, then they shouldn't be surprised to find they get less than that regardless of their gender.

In other words if someone sux as a sexual partner and they are sexually boring, they are on a fools errand if they think they ought to have a tremendous sex life.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

SunCMars said:


> to the point of being martyrs.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I think thats the key though as you and I have mentioned before....its a GF and NOT a wife. A GF wants to have sex and a wife doesn't! Whenever I do get divorced, I will never have a wife again but WILL have a GF!!!


Since this has happened to you with more than one woman, it may be the case this will keep happening to you even with girlfriends.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

RebuildingMe said:


> Absolutely. A wife has her spouse locked up. She no longer need to impress, and often won’t. It may take years, but complacency will always set in to a marriage.


The above can happen just as readily with a girlfriend.



> She will focus on the kids and the man gets shoved aside. Now a gf has to keep working at it or she gets a next. There’s dates and alone times with no kids around. Keeps things fresh.


While this can also happen just as readily with a wife.

Plus just as girlfriends and boyfriends can get dumped, spouses are also often left, cheated on and divorced. So this idea that a girlfriend has to keep working at it is just as applicable to any spouse.

Of which this idea that one has to work at it and perform, is inherently one of the problems that sees what you don't like.

If you want a better ongoing sex life, be a better sexual partner snd don't marry people who fall short of being that themselves. Yet make no mistake, if you aren't all that yourself, you cannot maintain all of that either.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> I also never understood why people chose to stay in a sexless marriage. Is there an appeal to being a martyr? If one has done all they can do to try to respark the intimate portion of a marriage and has gotten no response it seems that they would have only two options left.


For the same reason people stay with addicts, gamblers, abusers, or at the lighter end, they have a partner who is always too busy for them, a partner who never opens up, a partner who doesn’t listen, doesn’t come through when they really need them?

I know of two sexless marriages where they seem to have an intimacy in other ways that other people are envious of. I was shocked when one friend told me her husband has been rejecting her since they were dating! They seem so close otherwise. Who knows?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Luckylucky said:


> For the same reason people stay with addicts, gamblers, abusers, or at the lighter end, they have a partner who is always too busy for them, a partner who never opens up, a partner who doesn’t listen, doesn’t come through when they really need them?
> 
> I know of two sexless marriages where they seem to have an intimacy in other ways that other people are envious of. I was shocked when one friend told me her husband has been rejecting her since they were dating! They seem so close otherwise. Who knows?


I get what your saying. Sex was never an issue in my marriage....it was other things that doomed it.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Sometimes I see people who just have so little faith in relationships in general that they think they won't get better elsewhere and don't want to be alone.

Sometimes they love their spouse in every other way and don't think breaking up with a quality person is worth it just for sex.

Sometimes there are ED or other sexual issues and the two people still don't want to be apart - they just aren't able to have sex and/or the situation cannot be resolved.

Porn is often blamed too I see for sexual issues in marriage, and it certainly has been an eye opener how much of an issue it is in so many marriages. A few years ago I thought it was harmless and people were being prudes and it could be used by happy couples together. But the reality is, it so often causes sexual issues when abused as I've seen in life and on TAM.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> Interesting story.
> 
> Sorry to hijack, but can I ask... she never ONCE made it clear you were hurting her and in her withdrawal you think she is at fault for you pain? Women tend to speak up a lot (or nag!) and get very vocal about what their needs are and when they want abuse to stop.
> 
> ...


Allow me to be clear that I take full responsibility for criticizing my spouse and I acknowledge that the criticism was a hurtful expression of needs not being met by her and fear of not having needs met by my spouse. Yes, criticism is a destructive force. Her response to criticism was initially to counter with defensiveness. The defensiveness did not lead to resolution of the conflict. It never got at addressing the need behind the criticism. Over time, she would become emotionally flooded and shut down. Shutting down allows a person to escape the fight of flight experience they are having, but unfortunately it leaves one's partner with an unresolved conflict that resurfaces with a greater sense of frustration next time. 

I think that there is not much value in having the find the bad guy discussion. We both broke our marriage. 

As a Christian, my acceptance of marriage is a solemn one that is for life except in the case of physical harm or adultery. My spouse chose to seek divorce as a pathway to a happier life. I acknowledged my part in damaging our relationship. I asked her to go to counselling with me. I went to counselling alone without her when she refused and said that the failure of our relationship was all because of my criticism and that she had no part in it.

My point in all of this is that the discussion of the withdrawal of intimacy for long periods of time, reaching years in length is understandable when the deep emotional connection between two people breaks down.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

OnwardNUpward said:


> For most, I think that the loss of physical intimacy comes as a dysfunctional act of emotional withdrawal. I experienced this in my marriage. My wife had received criticism from me which was an unhealthy way for me to interact with her. Rather than get at what it was that was wrong with our emotional connection, she withdrew. At first she withdrew from things that might draw criticism. Then she withdrew tasks she normally did for me. Eventually, she withdrew from physical intimacy...and yes, at the end it was about two years since she had ventured to reach across to my side of the bed. Her withdrawal was a means of protection from emotional harm in the beginning, but in the end it was a very destructive force. She did not resolve her feelings of being mistreated by confronting me with those feelings. Instead she withdrew and in her withdrawal developed contempt for me. I lived in a sad and lonely world of her contempt until she decided that divorce was her best option. I think by the time a woman stops being intimate, she has probably decided that the marriage is over.


I can relate to this... it's happened to me. My wife detached when I didn't handle our problems correctly (although I would say it was a 50/50 situation), but only withdrew from a partially active sex life 3 years ago (we are in our late 50s) after leading me down the garden path for 10! It was a bit of a shock. I thought we were over that particular phase of our marriage. I was wrong.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> Those people have a choice, we all do. They can walk away or endure a lifetime of pain and resentment. No different than taking a cheater back. It’s the fear that holds people to crappy marriages. Fear of financial ruin, being alone or thinking their kids won’t be able to handle it.


Fear certainly is a major factor.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Yeah I think married sex is over rated.
> 
> And I agree with RebuidingMe to a point but in reality, I think very few folks even if the get divorced find someone they are 100% compatible with and remain unhappy in their married sex life to some extent.
> 
> Its not just here either as I read on other sites and the number of unhappy sex lives is rampant there too. Out of all my guy friends (maybe 20 total) only two claim to have a good sex life.


2 out of 20? That’s horrible! What do you thing attributes to that?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I think thats the key though as you and I have mentioned before....its a GF and NOT a wife. A GF wants to have sex and a wife doesn't! Whenever I do get divorced, I will never have a wife again but WILL have a GF!!!


One has to wonder why wives stop wanting to have sex...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

OnwardNUpward said:


> Allow me to be clear that I take full responsibility for criticizing my spouse and I acknowledge that the criticism was a hurtful expression of needs not being met by her and fear of not having needs met by my spouse. Yes, criticism is a destructive force. Her response to criticism was initially to counter with defensiveness. The defensiveness did not lead to resolution of the conflict. It never got at addressing the need behind the criticism. Over time, she would become emotionally flooded and shut down. Shutting down allows a person to escape the fight of flight experience they are having, but unfortunately it leaves one's partner with an unresolved conflict that resurfaces with a greater sense of frustration next time.
> 
> I think that there is not much value in having the find the bad guy discussion. We both broke our marriage.
> 
> ...


Exactly this. I was wrong, but my wife's response (for her own issues) didn't allow the conflict to be resolved. She then gave in to keep the family together. At least your wife had the guts to choose divorce. My wife tricked me...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

SunCMars said:


> I often think the same thing.
> 
> A simple answer might be that not all people put a high value on intimacy.
> Yet, healthy people certainly do.
> ...


I agree that intimacy changes over time but completely sexless blows my mind.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

OnwardNUpward said:


> For most, I think that the loss of physical intimacy comes as a dysfunctional act of emotional withdrawal. I experienced this in my marriage. My wife had received criticism from me which was an unhealthy way for me to interact with her. Rather than get at what it was that was wrong with our emotional connection, she withdrew. At first she withdrew from things that might draw criticism. Then she withdrew tasks she normally did for me. Eventually, she withdrew from physical intimacy...and yes, at the end it was about two years since she had ventured to reach across to my side of the bed. Her withdrawal was a means of protection from emotional harm in the beginning, but in the end it was a very destructive force. She did not resolve her feelings of being mistreated by confronting me with those feelings. Instead she withdrew and in her withdrawal developed contempt for me. I lived in a sad and lonely world of her contempt until she decided that divorce was her best option. I think by the time a woman stops being intimate, she has probably decided that the marriage is over.


Did you try to discuss it with her? What was the criticism that made her withdraw?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> One has to wonder why wives stop wanting to have sex...


If they enjoy the sex they share and aren't bored by it, plus like the person they're sharing that sex with. Then they tend to keep wanting to share sex with that person.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> One has to wonder why wives stop wanting to have sex...


Lots of reasons... in my case, I stopped fulfilling her emotional needs, because she didn't fulfil my physical ones.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Personal said:


> The greater tragedy is those who find themselves in such misery, are actually choosing that misery. I don't get why they volunteer for it. Who knows maybe they are masochists at heart, or perhaps they know deep down that they are a massive contributor to why their sex lives suck?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I understand what you are saying to a point. I hate to think that sex is just sex when you are with someone for decades...


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Lots of reasons... in my case, I stopped fulfilling her emotional needs, because she didn't fulfil my physical ones.


Mine too.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Personal said:


> If they enjoy the sex they share and aren't bored by it, plus like the person they're sharing that sex with. Then they tend to keep wanting to share sex with that person.


I see many posts that say the marriage is good otherwise, the wives like their husbands, they have fun etc. So it can’t be that all these wives or husbands hate their spouses.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> I understand what you are saying to a point. I hate to think that sex is just sex when you are with someone for decades...


I've been sharing great sex with my wife, frequently through a few months shy of 25 years. Yet sex is what it is.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> Lots of reasons... in my case, I stopped fulfilling her emotional needs, because she didn't fulfil my physical ones.


So her withdrawal from sex came first? Did you discuss it with her?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> So it can’t be that all these wives or husbands hate their spouses.


I didn't mention hate at all, what goes a long way is sex being a great pleasure and not ho hum for all involved.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Personal said:


> I've been sharing great sex with my wife, frequently through a few months shy of 25 years. Yet sex is what it is.


I’ve been married 33 years and I think that the sex was always better when the emotional component of our marriage was intact.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

For those that asked, I have been slow in pulling the trigger to leave solely based on money. Yeah it sounds greedy but its true. I have had a great job the past 6 years of our marriage while my wife has not and hasn't worked for most if not all of them, I hate the thought of giving away half of what I have and her being able to just walk away rich as it would be a high six figure number for doing nothing but being known as "my wife" for six years.

I have been through this once already with my ex wife and Florida is not kind to the man in a divorce.

So for me its the difference between lack of sex and giving away half of my nest egg. Hence why I haven't just bailed out already.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Personal said:


> I didn't mention hate at all, what goes a long way is sex being a great pleasure and not ho hum for all involved.


You didn’t mention hate...my apologies.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> For those that asked, I have been slow in pulling the trigger to leave solely based on money. Yeah it sounds greedy but its true. I have had a great job the past 6 years of our marriage while my wife has not and hasn't worked for most if not all of them, I hate the thought of giving away half of what I have and her being able to just walk away rich as it would be a high six figure number for doing nothing but being known as "my wife" for six years.
> 
> I have been through this once already with my ex wife and Florida is not kind to the man in a divorce.
> 
> So for me its the difference between lack of sex and giving away half of my nest egg. Hence why I haven't just bailed out already.


How long have you been married in total?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> So her withdrawal from sex came first? Did you discuss it with her?


It's a bit complicated...  yes, she started withdrawing from sex for her personal (mental) issues, but she didn't communicate with me and I failed to understand her and after a while I reacted in an unpleasant manner (getting angry). Of course, she hated it and we started detaching. It was a vicious circle. In hindsight, I should have been more patient, supporting her regardless. But I was selfish. She likes me as a person and she likes my company, but according to her, I've ruined the intimacy side and it's too late now.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> Exactly this. I was wrong, but my wife's response (for her own issues) didn't allow the conflict to be resolved. She then gave in to keep the family together. At least your wife had the guts to choose divorce. My wife tricked me...


Gave in? Could you clarify?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> Lots of reasons... in my case, I stopped fulfilling her emotional needs, because she didn't fulfill my physical ones.


Tit for tat, for lack of tit !


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> It's a bit complicated...  yes, she started withdrawing from sex for her personal (mental) issues, but she didn't communicate with me and I failed to understand her and after a while I reacted in an unpleasant manner (getting angry). Of course, she hated it and we started detaching. It was a vicious circle. In hindsight, I should have been more patient, supporting her regardless. But I was selfish. She likes me as a person and she likes my company, but according to her, I've ruined the intimacy side and it's too late now.


She has stated it is too late? No chance at even working on it?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I see many posts that say the marriage is good otherwise, the wives like their husbands, they have fun etc. So it can’t be that all these wives or husbands hate their spouses.


One thing to consider is that the people posting here are usually one side (the aggrieved side). Occasionally you will find a LL (low libido) person chime in on the net but it is mostly HL (like me) complaining.

If there isn’t a physical issue then often the reasons for the dead bedroom are complicated and generally I think, “Everything is fine except the lack of sex.” is probably incorrect for most couples they just haven’t figured out and communicated what the problems are especially when that statement is coming from the HL partner. Lots of books and podcasts on these topics exist.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Bitter is said to be a tongue sensation.
Not quite.

It signals the brain, and later the brain signals the genitals to withdraw from soured relations.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Gave in? Could you clarify?


yes... we were heading for divorce. She had promised to go to therapy for her issues, but then she changed her mind. She accepted divorce. Then, she decided she didn't want a divorce ans she gave me sex to keep the family together. Of course she didn't say that was the reason and I interpreted it as an act of love towards me. I was wrong. When she had the chance, she withdrew from our sex life and spilt the beans... I must highlight the fact that she was driven by her mental issues. I didn't really know the full extent of them. She never told me. I know now because I found a diary of her.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> One thing to consider is that the people posting here are usually one side (the aggrieved side). Occasionally you will find a LL (low libido) person chime in on the net but it is mostly HL (like me) complaining.
> 
> If there isn’t a physical issue then often the reasons for the dead bedroom are complicated and generally I think, “Everything is fine except the lack of sex.” is probably incorrect for most couples they just haven’t figured out and communicated what the problems are especially when that statement is coming from the HL partner. Lots of books and podcasts on these topics exist.


I agree. There has to be more that leads to a dead bedroom.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> I’ve been married 33 years and *I think that the sex was always better when the emotional component of our marriage was intact*.


I hope so.

The emotional component was intact when I started having sex with my wife, as nothing more than a winter fling at the beginning of our relationship. Of which it turned out we liked the sex we shared and liked each others company, so we have stayed together because we still enjoy the sex we share and each others company.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> yes... we were heading for divorce. She had promised to go to therapy for her issues, but then she changed her mind. She accepted divorce. Then, she decided she didn't want a divorce ans she gave me sex to keep the family together. Of course she didn't say that was the reason and I interpreted it as an act of love towards me. I was wrong. When she had the chance, she withdrew from our sex life and spilt the beans... I must highlight the fact that she was driven by her mental issues. I didn't really know the full extent of them. She never told me. I know now because I found a diary of her.


I suppose mental issues can complicate things greatly.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> How long have you been married in total?


6 years this marriage 20 the first one


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> She has stated it is too late? No chance at even working on it?


Nope... she is happy (or unhappy) the way she is. She said that sex with me is a bad place. She enjoyed it when we had it (had orgasm every single time - and no, she wasn't faking it) and she even told me she loved me afterwards. But, for some reason, she doesn't want it any more. I know she is very unhappy and depressed. We nearly separated 3 years ago, but then I stayed because I was worried for her mental state. I don't plan to stay forever. I can't live like this. Just waiting for this stupid virus thing to do one...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> 6 years this marriage 20 the first one


So after 6 years she gets half? That doesn’t seem right.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> Nope... she is happy (or unhappy) the way she is. She said that sex with me is a bad place. She enjoyed it when we had it (had orgasm every single time - and no, she wasn't faking it) and she even told me she loved me afterwards. But, for some reason, she doesn't want it any more. I know she is very unhappy and depressed. We nearly separated 3 years ago, but then I stayed because I was worried for her mental state. I don't plan to stay forever. I can't live like this. Just waiting for this stupid virus thing to do one...


That has to hurt. There has to be something behind her reasoning if sex was once good.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> I suppose mental issues can complicate things greatly.


yes, of course. If I had known the real extent, I would have behaved in a completely different manner 15 years ago. But I didn't and she never told me.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Personal said:


> I hope so.
> 
> The emotional component was intact when I started having sex with my wife, as nothing more than a winter fling at the beginning of our relationship. Of which it turned out we liked the sex we shared and liked each others company, so we have stayed together because we still enjoy the sex we share and each others company.


Is the emotional component still intact?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> yes, of course. If I had known the real extent, I would have behaved in a completely different manner 15 years ago. But I didn't and she never told me.


Is she aware that you plan on divorcing her?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> That has to hurt. There has to be something behind her reasoning if sex was once good.


She doesn't want to find herself in the same position, with me getting angry. I haven't got angry in 15 years, but I must have really hurt her if she is refusing to have sex with me now that the kids have gone. We are completely different like that. I'm expansive and impulsive, she is very close and withdrawn. I'm sure her issues play a part, but I can't change that.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> Is the emotional component still intact?


I have a great marriage and share a tremendous sex life.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> So after 6 years she gets half? That doesn’t seem right.


I agree but thats what happened in my first divorce and multiple attorneys have told me it would likely repeat. One told me the best case is she only gets 1/3 as Florida is kind to the person who is left "without resources to live" in most divorces situations. She will claim that since she HASN'T worked in many years its too hard to find a job now especially at her age and I would pay for it.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> She doesn't want to find herself in the same position, with me getting angry. I haven't got angry in 15 years, but I must have really hurt her if she is refusing to have sex with me now that the kids have gone. We are completely different like that. I'm expansive and impulsive, she is very close and withdrawn. I'm sure her issues play a part, but I can't change that.


What happens if you try to initiate sex?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Is she aware that you plan on divorcing her?


She must have some kind of idea. Or maybe she thinks I will stick around but leading my own life (I live in England, but I' from Southern Europe - so planning to spend more time in my native country).


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> What happens if you try to initiate sex?


I don't dare! We sleep in separate rooms, anyway.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I agree but thats what happened in my first divorce and multiple attorneys have told me it would likely repeat. One told me the best case is she only gets 1/3 as Florida is kind to the person who is left "without resources to live" in most divorces situations. She will claim that since she HASN'T worked in many years its too hard to find a job now especially at her age and I would pay for it.


I understand after 20 years but 6? Something just doesn’t seem right.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> I don't dare! We sleep in separate rooms, anyway.


It’s been like this for how long?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> It’s been like this for how long?


Just over 3 years now...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> Just over 3 years now...


Wow. Boggles my mind.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> 6 years this marriage 20 the first one


So for your entire marriage she hasn't worked?

How did she support herself before she had you supporting her?

If you weren't okay with her not working for the past 6 years, why did you let it happen?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Livvie said:


> So for your entire marriage she hasn't worked?
> 
> How did she support herself before she had you supporting her?
> 
> If you weren't okay with her not working for the past 6 years, why did you let it happen?


She had a great job when we met and got married. Then just 1 year in lost it as they closed that office. Hasn't worked since. Oh I have shared many times I am not OK with it but how do you force a person to find a job? She would go to interviews and nothing. She may have been sabotaging herself not to get it...I don't know? Hence where I am today.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Wow. Boggles my mind.


It is what it is. It was my decision to stay to look after her until she is better. She is getting there. Won't be forever.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Personal said:


> The above can happen just as readily with a girlfriend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It’s a lot easier to untangle from a LD girlfriend than a LD spouse. Also, with the girlfriend, you don’t get the dynamics of having kids, things that kill the marriage. Husbands don’t know when they get married their wives will eventually be acceptable of their children sleeping in bed with her (completely unacceptable in my book) yet as a BF, I can see the dynamics of mother and child and make my decisions accordingly. There are other red flags easily spotted with a GF than with an eventual wife. Mental disorders, PPD, lack of motivation to find a career...this list goes on and on.

I am happy you have had many years of fulfilling sex with your wife. You are the 13%. How many kids do you have together?


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Numb26 said:


> I get what your saying. Sex was never an issue in my marriage....it was other things that doomed it.


Numb, glad to see you back.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> yes... we were heading for divorce. She had promised to go to therapy for her issues, but then she changed her mind. She accepted divorce. Then, she decided she didn't want a divorce ans she gave me sex to keep the family together. Of course she didn't say that was the reason and I interpreted it as an act of love towards me. I was wrong. When she had the chance, she withdrew from our sex life and spilt the beans... I must highlight the fact that she was driven by her mental issues. I didn't really know the full extent of them. She never told me. I know now because I found a diary of her.


Yours and hers were (to me) legitimate reasons for anguish, then withdrawal.

Her subsequent actions could be faked as 'correctable', your needs could not for the sake of the charade.

At the next to the last instance she relented, she then spread her wings for your re-entry into intimacy.

At the end, her front-end closed off, forever. 
She discovered that opening her legs was far easier than opening her mind.
The latter being, not worth it, impossible (for her).

Her reason for that brief relenting was to make her life more comfortable, outside of intercourse. 
Inside intercourse, became a landmine, 
Ah, such that her furry nether-land was soon reclaimed, solely ('holey') by her.

To her, the spoils of marriage woo was not worth the spoils of your sticky-goo.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I agree. There has to be more that leads to a dead bedroom.


The randiest of humans can find reason to reject the pleasure at hand, when more of that suffer is before them.

At what price, doth come my pleasure?


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> She had a great job when we met and got married. Then just 1 year in lost it as they closed that office. Hasn't worked since. Oh I have shared many times I am not OK with it but how do you force a person to find a job? She would go to interviews and nothing. She may have been sabotaging herself not to get it...I don't know? Hence where I am today.


Dude, you got baited and switched more ways than one. I feel bad for you. I am in the same boat, going through divorce number two. Hang in there. It’s gets better. I’m going to Miami tomorrow for a long weekend with my GF. Hopefully getting out of the snow. I’m having experiences and memories I would never have had with either of the wives. There’s light at the end of the tunnel.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

SunCMars said:


> She discovered that opening her legs was far easier than opening her mind.


Unfortunately, this is very true.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

RebuildingMe said:


> It’s a lot easier to untangle from a LD girlfriend than a LD spouse.


I will never get married again. If I'll ever have a GF again, we will have separate apartments. Not going through all that crap again...


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> I will never get married again. If I'll ever have a GF again, we will have separate apartments. Not going through all that crap again...


That is your choice, one that is understandable.

I admonish you, though, choices are often mutual.

You set your rules, not the relationships, in toto.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

While women are often gatekeepers for sex, men are often the gatekeepers for relationships. As a man, use this to your advantage. No sex, no relationship.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

RebuildingMe said:


> Husbands don’t know when they get married their wives *will eventually be acceptable of their children sleeping in bed with her* (completely unacceptable in my book) yet as a BF, I can see the dynamics of mother and child and make my decisions accordingly.


That's not been my experience including with my first wife who I had a child (who is turning 30 this year) with.



RebuildingMe said:


> How many kids do you have together?


Two together, with the oldest turning 21 later this year and the youngest who will be turning 18.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Hence where I am today.


Well you'll "lose" even more, if you choose more years of this going forward.

That said, it's your bed so you're more than welcome to keep lying in it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Talking about beds... we never had children sleeping in our bed (well, very rarely)... if they woke up, I would go to their bedroom and sleep on the floor next to them... I liked to preserve the "sanctity" of our marital bedroom... not that it worked...


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Talking about beds... we never had children sleeping in our bed (well, very rarely)... if they woke up, I would go to their bedroom and sleep on the floor next to them... I liked to preserve the "sanctity" of our marital bedroom... not that it worked...


It’s more common than you think. It’s like a call from the governor and gives the spouse an out, yet again.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> Numb, glad to see you back.


Thank you, good to be back


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

RebuildingMe said:


> It’s more common than you think. It’s like a call from the governor and gives the spouse an out, yet again.


well, I put my foot down from day one... maybe this is one of the reasons she disliked me for a while...


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

RebuildingMe said:


> While women are often gatekeepers for sex, men are often the gatekeepers for relationships. As a man, use this to your advantage. No sex, no relationship.


 
Argh!

Gates are to keep out savages and are used often by disallowers.

When a gate is used as relationship leverage, the mettle of it, soon smells of mistrust, soon tastes of rust.


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## OnwardNUpward (Feb 17, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Did you try to discuss it with her? What was the criticism that made her withdraw?


My spouse did not process her feelings. She was a feelings stuffer. When times were good, there was enough positive love for her to get past the difficult times, mostly by expressing her own needs. When her needs were met, she would be less defensive. It did not resolve conflict though.

I grew up in a home with a father who was rather critical. He was the product of a home with much alcoholism. I suspect that at the core of his issues was a fear of abandonment. That may be my core issue as well.

The bottom line with criticism is that it is destructive. I was critical of her in many ways, but the hardest to reconcile related to how we were dealing with our health as we aged. I wished to reduce the processed foods in the house and to keep a commitment to exercise. Food is her comfort mechanism and exercise is something she just hates. That was not a problem in our youth, but at this point she is morbidly obese and diabetic. To further complicate matters, junk food is a weakness for me that I wish to keep out of the house. My father was a food addict and I watched what it did to the last 20 years of his life. I watched him become diabetic. I watched hiis knees and hips fail as he eventually spent all of his time in a chair. Obviously, this situation was no picnic for my mother.

I failed to love my wife unconditionally. I was partially because of my own childhood baggage. I suspect that her withdrawal was partially do to her difficulty embracing positive changes. She did not speak her negotiation of the relationship. She withdrew from the strong emotions that her feelings caused in her.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

OnwardNUpward said:


> My spouse did not process her feelings. She was a feelings stuffer. When times were good, there was enough positive love for her to get past the difficult times, mostly by expressing her own needs. When her needs were met, she would be less defensive. It did not resolve conflict though.
> 
> I grew up in a home with a father who was rather critical. He was the product of a home with much alcoholism. I suspect that at the core of his issues was a fear of abandonment. That may be my core issue as well.
> 
> ...


I’m not sure if the love in a marriage is ever unconditional. Not like with children.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

SunCMars said:


> Argh!
> 
> Gates are to keep out savages and are used often by disallowers.
> 
> When a gate is used as relationship leverage, the mettle of it, soon smells of mistrust, soon tastes of rust.


Okay, put another way, when she closes the gate on sex, I close the gate on the relationship.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

OnwardNUpward said:


> My spouse did not process her feelings. She was a feelings stuffer. When times were good, there was enough positive love for her to get past the difficult times, mostly by expressing her own needs. When her needs were met, she would be less defensive. It did not resolve conflict though.
> 
> I grew up in a home with a father who was rather critical. He was the product of a home with much alcoholism. I suspect that at the core of his issues was a fear of abandonment. That may be my core issue as well.
> 
> ...


I think you are a copy of me. You are describing my marriage, including the weight gain and comfort eating. I too grew up in a hypercritical household, so maybe I was too, maybe excessively so. I doubt it though. I've had abandonment issues too. When I felt rejected - after feeling rejected all my life until I met my wife - my world collapsed. Badly. But I didn't know that. I failed to love her unconditionally at that time, I was selfish, and it destroyed us. But as you say, it was childhood baggage which sat dormant inside my head.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I agree but thats what happened in my first divorce and multiple attorneys have told me it would likely repeat. One told me the best case is she only gets 1/3 as Florida is kind to the person who is left "without resources to live" in most divorces situations. She will claim that since she HASN'T worked in many years its too hard to find a job now especially at her age and I would pay for it.


If you been married 6 years in Florida, you better SERIOUSLY think about divorce BEFORE you hit that 7 year mark. Once you hit the 7 year mark in Florida, you're pretty much screwed.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> Husbands don’t know when they get married their wives will eventually be acceptable of their children sleeping in bed with her (completely unacceptable in my book)


I've had at least one kid, usually two or more, in my bed for the last 12 years. Letting that get in the way of sex is just an excuse. 

For the record, husband's can be okay with children in the bed too or be the ones to push for it.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Humanity is complex. Yes, the low drive spouse should be thankful that they are not being cheated on. My wife and I have had some epic dry spells.. 2.5 years one time. However, there is more to a marriage than sex and so sticking it out with your spouse has benefits that go beyond the bedroom.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> Absolutely. A wife has her spouse locked up. She no longer need to impress, and often won’t. It may take years, but complacency will always set in to a marriage. She will focus on the kids and the man gets shoved aside. Now a gf has to keep working at it or she gets a next. There’s dates and alone times with no kids around. Keeps things fresh. I give credit to the ones that can do that in a marriage. Unfortunately, I read somewhere that it’s about only 13% of marriages that still have a romantic love for one another after 8 years and only 2% feel an obsession for each other. Pathetic statistics.


Those stats seem unbelievable, but I have no reason to doubt them. Sad state of affairs for too many people. I guess it's not surprising that for a lot of people the passion fades. When you think about if you've been married for 8 years and have had a fairly normal sex life you've had sex with your partner thousands of times. It does get hard to keep it fresh and exciting for both. For us we both actively work on keeping it spicy, somethings work out some don't, but even with the things that don't we both feel good that we are still trying.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Those stats seem unbelievable, but I have no reason to doubt them. Sad state of affairs for too many people. I guess it's not surprising that for a lot of people the passion fades. When you think about if you've been married for 8 years and have had a fairly normal sex life you've had sex with your partner thousands of times. It does get hard to keep it fresh and exciting for both. For us we both actively work on keeping it spicy, somethings work out some don't, but even with the things that don't we both feel good that we are still trying.


*Key result: 42 (13%) of the 312 participants gave all 6s to every romantic love (Factor 1) item, even after controlling for social desirability. Their mean relationship length (8.39 years) was virtually identical to the over- all mean. For obsession (Factor 2), for which it was easier to have all 6s by chance (there were fewer items), only six individuals (2%) gave the highest possible answer to each question after controlling for social desirability;*



https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/gpr13159.pdf


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> *Key result: 42 (13%) of the 312 participants gave all 6s to every romantic love (Factor 1) item, even after controlling for social desirability. Their mean relationship length (8.39 years) was virtually identical to the over- all mean. For obsession (Factor 2), for which it was easier to have all 6s by chance (there were fewer items), only six individuals (2%) gave the highest possible answer to each question after controlling for social desirability;*
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/gpr13159.pdf


I think the basic take away for me is that many couples get lazy, complacent and take things for granted. So many end up in a comfortable semi platonic state, roommates who are occasionally romantic and occasionally have sex. Keeping the fire burning takes continuous effort but it can be fun.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I think the basic take away for me is that many couples get lazy, complacent and take things for granted. So many end up in a comfortable semi platonic state, roommates who are occasionally romantic and occasionally have sex. Keeping the fire burning takes continuous effort but it can be fun.


Funny, I just posted basically these same thoughts on another thread. I agree completely.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

bobert said:


> I've had at least one kid, usually two or more, in my bed for the last 12 years. *Letting that get in the way of sex is just an excuse.*
> 
> For the record, husband's can be okay with children in the bed too or be the ones to push for it.


I agree with this - I had my kids in our bed all the time in the night, because I needed my sleep!!! We had either already had sex by the time one of them came in, or we would have (GREAT!!) sex on the couch downstairs...or on a chair...or on the floor...it was exciting and NO problem at all!!! 

I had sex because I WANTED to have sex (and so did he). When someone really wants sex, it's easy to find a way!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Mybabysgotit said:


> If you been married 6 years in Florida, you better SERIOUSLY think about divorce BEFORE you hit that 7 year mark. Once you hit the 7 year mark in Florida, you're pretty much screwed.


Where do you get that? I assume you're talking about alimony, so....

I live in FL and have been divorced here twice. I never asked for any alimony but even 15 years ago with my kids father (I'd been a sahm, which is what HE wanted) my lawyer told me judges were frowning on alimony.

They had long term alimony because a lot of people come here to retire and they don't want a scenario where the bread winner (many of the elderly wives didn't work in their generation) ditches the spouse and she becomes destitute and dependent on the state. Its not that common for one to actually get lifetime alimony.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> Funny, I just posted basically these same thoughts on another thread. I agree completely.


I think there is a large percentage of people who are not cut out for marriage at all really. The sucky thing is it's almost impossible to know that without being married. 

One thing that being on TAM has taught me is my wife and I got very lucky. We are both pretty committed to the others happiness. I would probably say my wife has more tendency to get lazy at times but it works because I really enjoy looking for different ways to spice things up and she will try anything. If all else fails I book a trip to Vegas.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I think there is a large percentage of people who are not cut out for marriage at all really. The sucky thing is it's almost impossible to know that without being married.
> 
> One thing that being on TAM has taught me is my wife and I got very lucky. We are both pretty committed to the others happiness. I would probably say my wife has more tendency to get lazy at times but it works because I really enjoy looking for different ways to spice things up and she will try anything. If all else fails I book a trip to Vegas.


I am one of those people not cut out for marriage and I readily admit it. It took me too many years to realize that.

On a side note, I miss Vegas. I won’t go again until they fully reopen. My host has been sending offers nonstop. They must be hurting for business.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

For me it was kind of a boiling frog issue. Before kids there was sex a couple times a week and sometimes a couple times a day. After the first came along there were a couple months of no sex (internal tearing and stitches) and then it went back to nearly pre-child levels. I was deployed during the second pregnancy only getting back once they were 2 months old. She was premature and didn't feed properly and was colicky for about a month and on some level she resented that I didn't have to deal with any of that even though it wasn't really my fault. The Marines barely cared that I was having a kid and no one in my chain of command was terribly helpful when it came to checking out of my unit at the end of my active service until it became a paperwork headache for headquarters.

Sex was again roughly a couple times a week BUT the job I found getting out of the military was in Northern Virginia and she refused to move any closer than 2.5 hours (IE she didn't want to be more than a couple miles from our families). It was going to be work-from-home regularly but it took time for approval and I would have to go up occasionally even then. For a couple months I slept in the office regularly. When I was home, especially when I was coming from work, she was too tired. Before someone jumps on that to say I wasn't pulling my weight or something, if I was home she didn't cook a meal, change a diaper, do a bath, and rarely cleaned up messes. When the kids were toddlers sex was probably once and sometimes twice a week except for when she was ovulating when it was every day. 

It was at about this point when I started the daydreams of better times ahead. Which I'll go into on a step by step basis.

When the kids were toddlers, the excuse of "I'm too tired" or "too frustrated with the kids" or whatever seemed to imply that once the kids were more independent things would improve. (they didn't)

After they were self sufficient enough to go to the bathroom by themselves and didn't destroy the kitchen every time they ate a meal and could pick up after themselves somewhat prompting them to do those things and dealing with their half done jobs was too much. Maybe once they go to school things will be more relaxed and there will be more affection. (there wasn't)

Once the kids were in school there was an existential crisis about life's purpose and a new job to start (and change and side jobs to start). These jobs (CNA nursing) were too demanding to allow for any physical activity other than a foot or back rub most of the time. This would mark the last time she did a load of laundry (not that she did all of the laundry before but she didn't do any after this point at all). Sex was Saturday night as much as 3 nights a month (IE every weekend that she wasn't menstruating and trust me I knew her cycle 10X better than she did at this point). I thought that once she got used to working and I helped _just a little bit more_ the affection would return. (it didn't)

After the kids had been in school for a while (2nd and 4th grade) she decided that she needed to back to nursing school to get an LPN degree to get a more fulfilling job (_actually_ its just easier supporting yourself as an LPN than a CNA but I digress). This was a stressful time in her life since she was going to school and working part time so sex _obviously_ had to be cut back to Ovulation Weekend (should be a national holiday). But its going to get better when she is out of school and has the job she wants, right? (_NO_)

I don't know if I should count the last 3 years of our marriage as real. She was paying off debts and saving _her_ money separately so that splitting would be easier. She was working out budgets and going furniture shopping with her friends so she'd be ready to move into an apartment. Of course there was no motivation on her part to change the once a month pattern. It actually got _worse_. Sex on Ovulation Weekend required _at least_ a babysitter, going out to eat, and watching a 'romantic' movie. It was a full day of effort and _everything_ had to go perfectly or she'd never be in the mood at the end. She was often sleeping (or possibly pretending to sleep) before the movie was over. A stay at a B&B was _almost_ a guarantee but not always. At the time, I was mostly just sad. I had done my best to be a supportive husband, good father, and capable lover and it was obviously not enough.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> I am one of those people not cut out for marriage and I readily admit it. It took me too many years to realize that.
> 
> On a side note, I miss Vegas. I won’t go again until they fully reopen. My host has been sending offers nonstop. They must be hurting for business.


Lifes most important lessons are often the ones that require pain to learn. The good thing for you is if you hadn't gone through it you wouldn't have the same level of certainty you have now. So you will be happy in your non-married life without wondering if you missed something. 

I'm supposed to be going to Vegas for an annual real estate convention in May. It's the same week every year and coincides with our anniversary, so my wife comes and we have a blast. The Billboard music awards are the weekend before most years so we go to that, we see a couple of shows, do a spa day, hang at the pool, depending on the wife's mood we might hit a strip club or get private strippers to the room (that is very hit and miss). I get invited to a lot of corporate parties related to the convention so we will party hop or just pick the best one. It's always insanity.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I miss Vegas. I normally only go for events like a fight or concert but it’s a short flight for me and I normally stay at Four Seasons which is right by the airport, super easy!


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> I have been reading mostly in the surviving infidelity forum but took a look in the sex in marriage forum. I was genuinely shocked by how many marriages are sexless. People saying they go months without sex. Some even years. I will preface this by saying as someone whose husband cheated, I wonder why some of these clearly tortured souls don’t cheat. My husband had a regular stream of sex. Normal ups and downs over the years...But never did he go longer than 2 weeks without physical intimacy. I knew very early on how much it meant to him. I always tried to satisfy him even when I was angry or hurt. To see the complete disregard that some people endure under the guise of a “good marriage” was eye opening. I’m not sure if I have a question or this is simply musings but the expression that so many people live lives of quiet desperation comes to mind...
> The pain that resonates off the pages is palpable and on more than a few threads I thought if only these poor souls spouses could really see the pain they are causing the person they love and realize how insanely lucky they are that they are not being cheated on.


IMHO, the majority people who stay in sexless marriages year after year do so because they have other needs that *are* being met in the relationship. They are not willing to gamble the known positives of the relationship (maybe financial security, or companionship, or an intact family, or [fill the need here]) for the potential to maybe, possibly find someone who wants to have sex AND can meet a good number of their most important other needs. It's basically an episode of "Let's Make A Deal" where Monty Hall offers the contestant $500 and tells them they can choose to keep the money or trade it in for what's behind the large/huge curtain on stage. About half the time, the contents behind the curtain was not worth $20 and the contestants went home disappointed that they hadn't taken the money. 

I was told after my divorce that some people may find their special someone and other's may not but being alone is the absolute worse I could do as a single person. It scared the crap out of me and took a while to really accept. "Alone" IS scary but then again it provides vast opportunities to grow as a person. It also provides opportunities to meet someone else but it's icing on a cake, not the cake.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

RebuildingMe said:


> Sex life with a gf is far more frequent and exciting than sex with a wife, hands down. Anyone who tells you different needs to find a new gf.


My wife is almost daily. Together 24 yrs. If we skip a day or two due to sick or injury we usually go 2-3x the next day.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Divinely Favored said:


> My wife is almost daily. Together 24 yrs. If we skip a day or two due to sick or injury we usually go 2-3x the next day.


You found a unicorn! Where can I find a male one of those?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Divinely Favored said:


> My wife is almost daily. Together 24 yrs. If we skip a day or two due to sick or injury we usually go 2-3x the next day.


How old are y’all? 😳😂


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

Torninhalf said:


> I have been reading mostly in the surviving infidelity forum but took a look in the sex in marriage forum. I was genuinely shocked by how many marriages are sexless. People saying they go months without sex. Some even years. I will preface this by saying as someone whose husband cheated, I wonder why some of these clearly tortured souls don’t cheat. My husband had a regular stream of sex. Normal ups and downs over the years...But never did he go longer than 2 weeks without physical intimacy. I knew very early on how much it meant to him. I always tried to satisfy him even when I was angry or hurt. To see the complete disregard that some people endure under the guise of a “good marriage” was eye opening. I’m not sure if I have a question or this is simply musings but the expression that so many people live lives of quiet desperation comes to mind...
> The pain that resonates off the pages is palpable and on more than a few threads I thought if only these poor souls spouses could really see the pain they are causing the person they love and realize how insanely lucky they are that they are not being cheated on.


I was married 25 years, the last eight or so being sexless. The years before being sexless were pretty bad as far as quality of sex goes. No passion or adventure and no fun or excitement. The reason why is total incompatibility in most areas and I didn’t leave sooner because I was worried about my kids and what it would do to them. They did fine after the initial shock.

Now that I’m out of the marriage I will admit to having some issues surrounding sex which may cause problems for me. I’ve already experienced an issue with it with my BF. I’m super high drive, always have been and now that I’m free to have sex I find that I may make men nervous, like they won’t be able to keep up.

It sounds funny on the one hand because what guy would complain about a horny GF right? But on the other hand it’s not funny at all. BF sometimes feels like sex means more to me than he does but for me sex is how I feel closest to him and I can’t get enough of him. 

I’m 48, sex starved and have a pathetic sexual history and he’s 49 and has had so much sex over his lifetime that he can’t relate to how important sex is to me or why.

My point in sharing all of this is that these sexless marriages can have long lasting affects that cause unexpected issues later on in life.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> How old are y’all? 😳😂


After 24 years together, old enough that daily is well into the tails of the distribution and should not be confused with the typical population.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Not said:


> I was married 25 years, the last eight or so being sexless. The years before being sexless were pretty bad as far as quality of sex goes. No passion or adventure and no fun or excitement. The reason why is total incompatibility in most areas and I didn’t leave sooner because I was worried about my kids and what it would do to them. They did fine after the initial shock.
> 
> Now that I’m out of the marriage I will admit to having some issues surrounding sex which may cause problems for me. I’ve already experienced an issue with it with my BF. I’m super high drive, always have been and now that I’m free to have sex I find that I may make men nervous, like they won’t be able to keep up.
> 
> ...


I can imagine the issues could be numerous. Can I ask why you are still with your boyfriend?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Cletus said:


> After 24 years together, old enough that daily is well into the tails of the distribution and should not be confused with the typical population.


😂


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> How old are y’all? 😳😂


Im 49 she 52


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Divinely Favored said:


> Im 49 she 52


Impressive. 😁


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Cletus said:


> After 24 years together, old enough that daily is well into the tails of the distribution and should not be confused with the typical population.


Use to be 3× week. She was hesitant for more because she thought i would get bored and loose interrest in her. Once i reassured her i would not she was like a wild little vixen and i thought she was thinking Oh yeah we will see. But my desire and hers have continued to increase for each other. 

Told her i wanted to make love daily unless one of us is hurt or ill. (When we skip days we usually double up to make up for missed day.) She smiled and said Ok! I talked to her before we fell asleep one night and said i wanted to try something new. The next day she said what ever i want because she trusts me.

She is as into it as i am. I keep her very sassified though. Our time is usually 1.5hrs and she is very, very well taken care of so she usually comes to bed ready.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> Impressive. 😁


I have been on HRT for Low T since 37. Pretty well shot quickies to hell. A quickie for us is 45 min. I am more like the Energizer Bunny. Thankfully she can orgasm via PIV intercorse. She will climax multiple times and i may not at all.

She felt bad about it until i made her understand the sex is awesome but sometimes i.can not climax, its hormone related. But i greatly enjoy the physical and pleasing her immensely.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

Torninhalf said:


> I can imagine the issues could be numerous. Can I ask why you are still with your boyfriend?


He’s a great partner but can go weeks without sex and I end up frustrated. Once in bed he rocks my world but his job drains him and he’s got a lot on his plate outside of work. I can’t knock him for things that are out of his control. I just have a lot of trouble dealing with the long stretches in between.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Divinely Favored said:


> I have been on HRT for Low T since 37.


I'm not knocking this at all and am glad you have found it has done a lot for your relationship with your wife. So all power to you both.

That said, I don't think I would want to go down such a path for myself. If age and health took its toll on my sexual capability.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Personal said:


> I'm not knocking this at all and am glad you have found it has done a lot for your relationship with your wife. So all power to you both.
> 
> That said, I don't think I would want to go down such a path for myself. If age and health took its toll on my sexual capability.


Guy being low t causes him to be imbalanced with higher estrogen levels. Causes cardiac issues in men. Gotta get the Test back up where it goes. 

Low T is horrible. Tired all the time....come home from work and crash in recliner until wife woke me up to eat dinner. Eat shower and go to bed while she cleans up kitchen. Start dealing with symptoms of ED. Libido was gone. Not low...gone! Emotionally a zombie. Just numb toward everyone. I refuse to go back to that hell.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Divinely Favored said:


> I refuse to go back to that hell.


I thought it was just a failing libido issue and nothing more, given all of that I can see why you have done that.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Torninhalf said:


> There really never is a good reason to cheat. That I agree. It just seems heartbreaking.


Agreed. But the problem is that is a values statement and opinions vary. I had a few offers to get some strange during my marriage, which surprised the hell out of me because I did zero to solicit or encourage these offers.

I didn't pursue any of them because I expected better out of myself, not because my wife deserved better. But someone else might have thought "my spouse has no problem denying me for long stretches of time, I'm going to get it if I can". And honestly I wouldn't blame them.

That's also the time I learned some women have a sixth sense when it comes to guys who aren't cared for at home. But that's a different subject.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> Where do you get that? I assume you're talking about alimony, so....
> 
> I live in FL and have been divorced here twice. I never asked for any alimony but even 15 years ago with my kids father (I'd been a sahm, which is what HE wanted) my lawyer told me judges were frowning on alimony.
> 
> They had long term alimony because a lot of people come here to retire and they don't want a scenario where the bread winner (many of the elderly wives didn't work in their generation) ditches the spouse and she becomes destitute and dependent on the state. Its not that common for one to actually get lifetime alimony.


The owner of the company I work for just went through it. We are close and he tells me everything...maybe too much lol. They hit him with lifetime alimony, he was married for 11 years. Judges frowning on alimony? Noooooooo, they give out lifetime alimony ALL DAY LONG...


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Mybabysgotit said:


> The owner of the company I work for just went through it. We are close and he tells me everything...maybe too much lol. They hit him with lifetime alimony, he was married for 11 years. Judges frowning on alimony? Noooooooo, they give out lifetime alimony ALL DAY LONG...


Lifetime alimony after an 11 year marriage? That's really rare. How old are the parties? Does it end when they are both of retirement age? What state? 

I'm struggling to envision an 85 year old paying support.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Livvie said:


> Lifetime alimony after an 11 year marriage? That's really rare. How old are the parties? Does it end when they are both of retirement age? What state?
> 
> I'm struggling to envision an 85 year old paying support.


Hopefully she remarries.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I think if proves a point that cheaters don’t really love the ones they betray.

It also shows that the marital circumstances are not the cause of the cheater’s cheating.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Livvie said:


> Lifetime alimony after an 11 year marriage? That's really rare. How old are the parties? Does it end when they are both of retirement age? What state?
> 
> I'm struggling to envision an 85 year old paying support.


California is one of the states that have the life time support after 10 years. I think it is basically one year for every two until the tenth year.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Lifetime alimony after an 11 year marriage? That's really rare. How old are the parties? Does it end when they are both of retirement age? What state?
> 
> I'm struggling to envision an 85 year old paying support.


Rare? in Florida? Happens all the time, in fact, its the norm here rather than the exception. It only ends if the wife gets remarried or death.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> I have been reading mostly in the surviving infidelity forum but took a look in the sex in marriage forum. I was genuinely shocked by how many marriages are sexless. People saying they go months without sex. Some even years. I will preface this by saying as someone whose husband cheated, I wonder why some of these clearly tortured souls don’t cheat. My husband had a regular stream of sex. Normal ups and downs over the years...But never did he go longer than 2 weeks without physical intimacy. I knew very early on how much it meant to him. I always tried to satisfy him even when I was angry or hurt. To see the complete disregard that some people endure under the guise of a “good marriage” was eye opening. I’m not sure if I have a question or this is simply musings but the expression that so many people live lives of quiet desperation comes to mind...
> The pain that resonates off the pages is palpable and on more than a few threads I thought if only these poor souls spouses could really see the pain they are causing the person they love and realize how insanely lucky they are that they are not being cheated on.


I have always thought sex must be part of a marriage, Just as well I happen to like a lot of it. 
Unlike you I do not mix my body's needs with my mind's moods. If I am unhappy about something, I take it out on sex, and then I have a good night's sleep. Sex is a good workout. We also never ever discuss angry or hurt in the bedroom. That is for the living room. the bedroom is a refuge room for calm and comfort.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

MaiChi said:


> I have always thought sex must be part of a marriage, Just as well I happen to like a lot of it.
> Unlike you I do not mix my body's needs with my mind's moods. If I am unhappy about something, I take it out on sex, and then I have a good night's sleep. Sex is a good workout. We also never ever discuss angry or hurt in the bedroom. That is for the living room. the bedroom is a refuge room for calm and comfort.


Not sure what you mean with unlike you...


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> Not sure what you mean with unlike you...


Sounds like they're one that sex is not attached to emotional feelings. Some it just feels good to get off and there is not an emotional component that goes with it. 

Like cheaters who say it was just sex! I did not love them. I believe people wired that way are the ones that can be poly, swing, etc. and less likely to destroy their marriage.

Unlike with my wife and me, we are both the type where emotion is involved with sex. We are violently monogamous. Either one of us is a one and done if the other cheats. Not gonna happen because of our self boundaries we place on opposite sex interactions.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Divinely Favored said:


> Sounds like they're one that sex is not attached to emotional feelings. Some it just feels good to get off and there is not an emotional component that goes with it.
> 
> Like cheaters who say it was just sex! I did not love them. I believe people wired that way are the ones that can be poly, swing, etc. and less likely to destroy their marriage.
> 
> Unlike with my wife and me, we are both the type where emotion is involved with sex. We are violently monogamous. Either one of us is a one and done if the other cheats. Not gonna happen because of our self boundaries we place on opposite sex interactions.


Just be cautious of the "never gonna happen" attitude as my ex and I were like that until she start talking to a financial planner\co-worker about my not making as much money as her. Eight months later she bailed out after almost 20 years together.. I'll let you fill in the details as they are just like anyone might imagine.


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