# Rebuilding after strip club outings



## smiley (Jul 15, 2009)

6 months my husband came to me to w/a confession. For several months he had been going to strip clubs behind my back. This is a definite "no-no" that we had openly communicated about before getting married. 

Because my husband was forthcoming and truly sorry, I've been willing to work things out. Other than this area, he has been a great husband and father. He initiated counseling sessions with our Pastor right away and has made a lot of changes. 

Our recent problems revolve around two relationships that have come into question through our communicating. He's got a female friend of nearly 20 years that he used to have a casual dating relationship with. Before I came into the picture, they cut the "messing around" out of it because they wanted to maintain the friendship without complications. (they never went "all the way." My husband was a virgin until 30 years old w/the goal of waiting for marriage, which I realize seems really inconsistent w/his behavior! Believe it or not, he's also a really attractive guy!) After he admitted that he'd gone to the strip clubs, I asked a lot of questions about his fantasy life, masturbation etc. He admitted to having thought about her in that context since we've been married. He claims that he was looking at a swimsuit model in a magazine and was merely reminded of the way that this girl used to look. (But not as fantasizing about having hardcore sex w/her). She has rarely been in contact w/him since we've been married. He wants my blessing to get in touch w/her so that their friendship doesn't fizzle. He wants her to be welcome as a friend of the family. I have a hard time accepting this and we've hit a road block in our communicating about it. 

The second relationship is the one w/his best friend of over 20 years. He's a married man w/a family. He has a very non-conventional marriage and spends EVERY night of the week in bars. His wife takes a lot more responsibility on than he does in every aspect of their home. I feel he has been a HORRIBLE influence and enabler of my husband's behavior. He was along for the strip club outings as well. My husband contacted him months back to tell him he wouldn't be seeing him for a season as we work things out. Rather than concern for our marriage, this friend was concerned my husband might "give up too much freedom."  

To sum it up, we went for a counseling session last night and were advised that my husband should not initiate contact w/the female friend since it's only aggravating our relationship. Maybe a friendship will evolve down the road if she gets married or has a life event and gets in touch w/him- at that point we can reevaluate it. Regarding his best friend, we were advised that, for now, they should only spend time in a family group setting w/the wives present. (As much as I can tolerate and as much as my husband can limit). Does this seem like sound advice?


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

I think your trying to control him totally and sound more like his mother and he is 12 years old than a married couple.
You are even trying to choose his friends and when he can be around them !
and who he can be friends with and in what capacity and even want to know what he's thinking when he looks at pictures of women.
That to me is super controlling and you will turn your marriage into one with a wimpy guy.... and you won't like it either.


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## Blonddeee (Dec 17, 2008)

I think I agree with the counsler- I don't see the benefit of bringing in an ex/friend into your marriage unless like the counsler said she gets married or something. Your husband still needs to build back the trust he lost with hiding the strip club from you, it wouldn't be as big of deal if it was for a bachlor party, but it sounds it was much more then that. 
You can't control who he is friends with, but your counsler is saying that you should be there too- that sounds like a good idea. Your husbands friend isn't the best husband so I can understand why you wouldn't want him being best buds with him since he isn't setting a good example of what a husband should be.


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## smiley (Jul 15, 2009)

To clarify- I specifically asked him if he had fantasies and sexual thoughts about this woman. Frankly, I feel that in a truly intimate marriage where there is honesty and sharing, discussing private thoughts and issues like masturbation are completely appropriate. When I asked, he offered up the explanation of the context and the way in which it happened. I am not trying to control him. I am simply expressing my discomfort and hoping that with regards to his friendships, we can find terms that are respectful of our marriage. His friend (the guy) is one who encouraged my husband to go out constantly, drink heavily and behave very irresponsibly during my entire pregnancy. Of course my husband is a grown man responsible for his actions. But it would be naive for me to think that our closest friendships don't influence and effect our lives.


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## Blonddeee (Dec 17, 2008)

I don't think you are being controlling


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## smiley (Jul 15, 2009)

preso said:


> That to me is super controlling and you will turn your marriage into one with a wimpy guy.... and you won't like it either.


On the contrary, over the last few months, I have found my husband to be stronger and more respectable than before. He has been honest and made himself vulnerable and open as we've worked through these tough issues. I don't think there's anything wimpy about a man who is willing to be sensitive to his wife's concerns. Maybe that's wimpy to you Preso but to me as a woman, that takes a lot of strength and selflessness which, in a marriage, is not at all wimpy. I have also made sacrifices and changes to improve things and I count it a joy because we are both benefiting from it.


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## GPR (Jan 3, 2009)

My thoughts:

First, the strip clubs are out of line. Like was said, if it was a one time thing like a Bachelor Party, that's one thing. But repeated trips for no reason is something else.

Second, the masturbation thing. First thing, you should be happy that he even divulged that with you. Most men wouldn't have admitted to that. But just because he "once" thought of someone else doesn't mean he doesn't love you or anything like that. You might want to explore more of what his fantasies are, because there might be things there that will help your sex life.

Third, the friend. Honestly, a lot of guys have "that friend" who acts like he's the manly man, going out drinking, strip clubs, etc. etc. etc. while his wife "knows her place is at home with the kids" or something to that effect. But honestly, the friend is not to blame, your husband is, so don't act like it was his fault. 

If I did all the things that my friends tried to persuade me to do through the years, I would have been divorced 3 times, in jail about a dozen times, have about 6 different STD's, been taken to the ER about a dozen times, and probably would be mentally incompetent by now. BUT, I'm a big boy and I take responsibilities for my own actions. 

The "my friend made me do it" doesn't work with my 6 year old, it shouldn't work with your husband either. You shouldn't restrict your husband from being with some friend, he should be smart enough and responsible enough to know when and where and how it is OK to be with this friend, or anyone else for that matter. If your husband can't do that, that's his problem. If his friend bales, then he's not a true friend.


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## Blonddeee (Dec 17, 2008)

"The "my friend made me do it" doesn't work with my 6 year old, it shouldn't work with your husband either. You shouldn't restrict your husband from being with some friend, he should be smart enough and responsible enough to know when and where and how it is OK to be with this friend, or anyone else for that matter. If your husband can't do that, that's his problem. If his friend bales, then he's not a true friend."

:iagree:


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

I never tell my husband what he can or can't do or who he can be friends with...
he is a grown man.

I would not like it either if he did that to me.


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## smiley (Jul 15, 2009)

preso said:


> I never tell my husband what he can or can't do or who he can be friends with...
> he is a grown man.
> 
> I would not like it either if he did that to me.


Have you actually read my post? I haven't told my husband what to do... He decided it was in the best interest of the marriage to take some time away from the friends who he'd been going out with. He has also refrained from calling the female friend for a few months because it was his choice. A lot of deception went into the strip club outings- which were weekly. After he came clean about that, WE both made a choice to remove distractions and outside influences as we focused on our marriage. I didn't force these decisions, they were of his initiative.


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## Blonddeee (Dec 17, 2008)

Smiley- I sent you a private message- did you get it?


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

smiley said:


> I asked a lot of questions about his fantasy life, masturbation etc.
> He wants my blessing to get in touch w/her so that their friendship doesn't fizzle.
> 
> He wants her to be welcome as a friend of the family.
> ...



yes I read it. Your husband wants his friends and for you to accept them and you won't.


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## smiley (Jul 15, 2009)

GPR said:


> My thoughts:
> 
> The "my friend made me do it" doesn't work with my 6 year old, it shouldn't work with your husband either. You shouldn't restrict your husband from being with some friend, he should be smart enough and responsible enough to know when and where and how it is OK to be with this friend, or anyone else for that matter. If your husband can't do that, that's his problem. If his friend bales, then he's not a true friend.


I agree. I honestly do trust that my husband won't lie to me about this again. If he said he were going to meet up w/_________ for a beer, I'd trust him to go a regular bar (not a strip club) have some beers, talk and come home at closing time. In the past, these outings got way out of hand and I spent a LOT of nights worrying about my husband. 

Thankfully, my husband has taken full accountability for his choices. The issues I've got w/his friend are admittedly personal and extend beyond the strip club outings. I think he's generally sexist and treats his own wife and family like crap. That said, I do realize my husband has a long standing friendship w/him and he does have some redeeming qualities, at least where my husband is concerned. It's not my place to choose his friends, nor do I want to. I honestly don't know how I feel about having to hang out w/him in a group setting. Right now, I think it would be akward for everyone involved.


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## Mrs B (Sep 29, 2008)

preso said:


> I think your trying to control him totally and sound more like his mother and he is 12 years old than a married couple.
> You are even trying to choose his friends and when he can be around them !
> and who he can be friends with and in what capacity and even want to know what he's thinking when he looks at pictures of women.
> That to me is super controlling and you will turn your marriage into one with a wimpy guy.... and you won't like it either.


That is crap!

It's about respect. There is no reason why he should contact someone when he has lost contact with her, especially when they are having marital problems. Until their marriage is back on track he shouldn't even entertain the idea, and even then I don't see the point in contacting an old flame. 

Being uncomfortable with this situation after he has already lied to her isn't controlling, in fact she is very wise to see the potential problems and tell him just how unhappy she is with the idea. 

Good luck with getting through this Smiley


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

"He wants my blessing to get in touch w/her so that their friendship doesn't fizzle. He wants her to be welcome as a friend of the family."

I've got some ocean front property in Arizona I'll sell you if you want!:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I'd tell him "Hell no". 

My dh does not go to strip clubs, if he did, he would not be my dh!:rofl::rofl:

My ds 23 tells me what goes on at a strip club.  I had no CLUE! Any woman who puts up with her dh going to a strip club is nuts.


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## smiley (Jul 15, 2009)

Mrs B said:


> That is crap!
> 
> It's about respect. There is no reason why he should contact someone when he has lost contact with her, especially when they are having marital problems. Until their marriage is back on track he shouldn't even entertain the idea, and even then I don't see the point in contacting an old flame.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the support! I think, just to play devil's advocate and to try to understand his point- my husband feels somewhat uncomfortable with the idea that I'm posing an ultimatum to him. As our counselor said, "right or wrong, married life can be harder on a man than a woman. Men tend to overvalue freedom which isn't always compatible w/married life." I think my husband sees that I am completely entitled to my concerns. And he is in agreement with the plan of completely taking the subject off the shelf as we work on "us"- no contacting her or even bringing the subject up for now. Now if she calls him out of the blue, he'll tell me the truth. Also, it bears mentioning, he maintained a platonic friendship w/her for almost 10 years before we even got married. It's NOT that I think he wants to rekindle a flame. I just think now's not the time to address sensitive issues like this one.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Mrs B said:


> That is crap!
> 
> It's about respect. There is no reason why he should contact someone when he has lost contact with her, especially when they are having marital problems. Until their marriage is back on track he shouldn't even entertain the idea, and even then I don't see the point in contacting an old flame.
> 
> Being uncomfortable with this situation after he has already lied to her isn't controlling, in fact she is very wise to see the potential problems and tell him just how unhappy she is with the idea.


Would be uncomfortable because its plain wrong !
How would you like your husband to tell you he wants to be with you when you go out with your girlfriends because he feels they enable you?
He needs to decide whom he needs to hang out with ON HIS OWN. He is an adult, isn't he?
Man alive, if my husband said that to me... I would resent him forever because I am a grown woman and he is not my parent.


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## Sensitive (Mar 29, 2009)

I believe it is very difficult to control another person's thoughts. Although it may appear demeaning or sleazy to watch naked women at a strip club, what's to stop a man from thinking dirty thoughts about any woman he sees in public? It is similar to viewing porn, it's mostly a man's fantasy, not really cheating. A wife has a right to limit that fantasy so as to reserve it for herself in their private bedroom. She also has the right to limit her husband's contact with old flames. That is definitely crossing the line, in my opinion, but it may be completely acceptable in another married couple's rulebook. The male best friend, on the other hand, should remain as a friend. They must have somewhere else they can hang out, besides a strip club.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

well if he was a virgin until he was 30
I dont think an old flame is any real threat.

Could be he just wants to be friends, as they most likely were
( just friends)... he even asked his wife to be her friend too, or at least try !
I think thats fair of him as he did ask wife to try and know her.
I don't see this as anything sneaky he was doing.


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## Julie (Jun 1, 2009)

OK so I don't like my husband going to strip clubs either but it's not for the same reasons... I think they cost so much and the drinks are WAY overpriced. But I don't mind that he goes. He doesn't go to the strip clubs a lot but when he does go.... I normally go with him. I will tell you that after a night out at the strip club the sex is AMAZING!

He isn't the type of guy to spend his whole paycheck on some raunchy chicks. He'll go have drinks and tip a few bucks...

So it doesn't really bother me.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Sandy55 said:


> I got some ocean front property in Arizona I'll sell you if you want!


ROTFLOL!!!

And I got a good deal on an investment in a bridge! 

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack...going to strip clubs when married is a no no unless it's a one time bachelor party. Regularly? NO! 

I've never liked them, myself..the cover charge and the minimum drink requirements (at inflated prices) just didn't do it for me. 

Plus the drink prices for the girls who really didn't drink alcohol (something else! Maybe a drop or two of alcohol to give the smell/flavor to the patrons...)! What a rip off...and I never wanted a lap dance from them! 

I know the business...the girls are NOT in it for the "sex"...they're in it for the money. Shut it down? No, there will always be a market. Don't go? Personal choice.


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## Conflicted (Jun 24, 2009)

What's wrong with strip clubs? 

I only get that with bachelor parties. Shouldn't be a regular thing.

Although i don't mind my wife being friends with her ex, it depends on the person and the type of relationship after their breakup. You two will know best of what you are comfortable with


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

If you ever drive by strips clubs, you will notice the parking lots are always full, at least in my area they are. I think most men go to them or have been to them.
Even my father went to one, as conservative and old fashioned as he was......... and OLD !
He was in his late 60's when he went. He told me he had never been to one before and he was freaked out. He said it's a good thing he had never been to any when young or he's been broke as it cost him several hundfed dollars, which of course you know means he got the royal treatment.
I really see no problem with strip clubs, many men go.......
the problem is if he tries to hook up with one of them strippers. Most men go and don't try to pick up strippers.
Why is going to one a big no no ?
I don't seem to go with that thinking........... if my husband wanted to go, I bet he would ask me to go too.
I have talked to husband about it and he said he has no interest in them anymore but at one time he did ( in his 20's)
My husband has been to them, he said for a time, the guys he worked with would go after work. They eventually got tired of it I guess.
I don't think going to a strip club is such a major issue.
Not like he is paying a hooker to have sex with him or anything.


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## Veronica Jackson (Jul 2, 2008)

preso said:


> I never tell my husband what he can or can't do or who he can be friends with...
> he is a grown man.
> 
> I would not like it either if he did that to me.


I agree with this statement. 

*"Men tend to overvalue freedom which isn't always compatible w/married life."*

Smiley, this is the wrong attitude. Never say "men do this, men do that" because you are creating your own negative perception that will affect your connection with your husband.

As far as strip clubs are concerned, I'm on the fence about this one. If it bothers you so much then get the "Carmen Electra's Aerobic Striptease" dvd and make sure the money goes in your thong and not the thong of a stranger. IMO.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

I figure the parking lots at those strip clubs are mostly really young men .........

and men who are married to wives who FORBID them to go.


lol


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## GPR (Jan 3, 2009)

Strip clubs, porno and the like always get generalized by people, as with a lot of things in our society. Too many say "It's wrong because I think....." "Or, it's OK as long as..." on here when other people post about it. 

Well, some people don't think it's wrong. It's up to the person, and his/her significant other to decide or not. In this case it was wrong... why? Because she didn't like it and he lied to her about it. That's their problem. I know several other wives who don't care if their husband goes to a strip club, most only on special occasions. They're all right. 

This conversation shouldn't be about "Strip clubs... Good or Bad?" It should be about:

"Did you want him to go?" 
"Did he know that you didn't want him to go?"
"Have you talked about it before?"
"Did he lie about it?"

In this case it was wrong, because he lied his ass off and knew she wouldn't like it. To each there own...


Now the friend thing. This again is up to you..... this is just my opinion.

You don't have to like his friends. But honestly, the "spending time in a family setting" sounds like the stupidest thing I've ever heard. What good will come of that? Let's get together with this friend that you hate in a setting that neither of them want to be in because your paster thinks that the two of them need a chaperone like a junior high dance? Let's just try to make everyone involved uncomfortable as we possible can.


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## smiley (Jul 15, 2009)

preso said:


> I really see no problem with strip clubs, many men go.......
> the problem is if he tries to hook up with one of them strippers. Most men go and don't try to pick up strippers.
> Why is going to one a big no no ?
> I don't seem to go with that thinking...........


Okay Preso, the above statements seem to be the premise for all the negative opinions and advice that you've given on this subject. You don't see a problem with strip clubs? Great!!! That's your prerogative. I, on the other hand, do. My husband knew this prior to marrying me. I have worked in strip clubs in the past. I have no delusions about what goes on in them. If you remove the "business establishment" element from the scenario, what you have is a woman rubbing her bare breasts in a man's face and grinding her parts on his lap, covered by a tiny strip of thin fabric. And that's best case scenario. If this took place in a married man's office w/a co-worker in the absence of a financial exchange, most people, conservative or not, would call this the beginning of an affair. And in my thinking, it doesn't have to go any farther than this for it to be hurtful and wrong in my marriage. It's not the likelihood (or lack of) that my husband would "pick up" one of the strippers. Going there, lusting after another naked woman who is NOT ME is enough. Maybe you're okay with your husband lusting after other women. I'm not. Maybe I have a lofty ideal, so what. People don't have to agree w/my thinking. However, in MY marriage, this is an issue that I don't take lightly. I'm sure you have certain "hot issues" where respect is expected from your husband, be they different from my own. 

My husband's logic was- "my wife would feel hurt and disrespected by this act. I am going to do disregard that because I want to do it anyway. Since being honest about it would be met with disapproval, I will lie about it." Whether you agree with the boundaries in my marriage or not, the fact is my husband lied and deceived me. 

I am not singling out his friends and picking a bone with them based on eye color or hair style, this isn't a matter of me trying to control my husband. I am concerned about protecting our marriage from negative influences, not giving him rules. 

If I had a friend who was acting like a *****, drinking every night of the week, seeking male attention and encouraging me to do same, I would have to evaluate that relationship closely and decide whether it was worth maintaining and, if so, in what fashion. My marriage is my priority, everything else takes a back seat. My husband wouldn't TELL me what to do or who to spend my time with. But if he voiced valid concerns, I would give them a lot of weight. 

It seems to me that you find my concerns to be unimportant or unrealistic so we're not really sharing any common ground to start from. I appreciate your advice but think you and I share really different ideas about marriage in general based on the posts I've read of yours.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

That you used to work at a strip club is all the more reason it shouldn't be such a big deal for him to go. You can't ask him not to go when you used to work at one !!!
Thats kinda crazy !

BTW this is my second marriage. I do not give my husband rules as he is a grown man, not a boy who needs direction.


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## smiley (Jul 15, 2009)

preso said:


> That you used to work at a strip club is all the more reason it shouldn't be such a big deal for him to go. You can't ask him not to go when you used to work at one !!!
> Thats kinda crazy !
> 
> BTW this is my second marriage. I do not give my husband rules as he is a grown man, not a boy who needs direction.


I absolutely CAN ask him not to go. I worked at a strip club when I was 19. I was not married then. Life is totally different now, I'm a completely different person and I'm not bound by my past. People do not HAVE to accept things that are intolerable to them based on their past mistakes. That's ridiculous.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

You have asked him not to go...........
and thats all you can do as you sure can't force him.

THATS MY POINT. 
He is a grown man, not a child. You may in fact have to accept you do not control him. No one likes to be told what to do and given ultimatuims and if you do... it will ruin your marriage totally as he will start sneaking around.


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## smiley (Jul 15, 2009)

GPR said:


> You don't have to like his friends. But honestly, the "spending time in a family setting" sounds like the stupidest thing I've ever heard. What good will come of that? Let's get together with this friend that you hate in a setting that neither of them want to be in because your paster thinks that the two of them need a chaperone like a junior high dance? Let's just try to make everyone involved uncomfortable as we possible can.


I agree- it would be uncomfortable for all involved. I'd honestly prefer to let my husband go hang out and establish my trust by behaving responsibly on his own. I seriously doubt that a "family gathering" is on the horizon any time soon. His friend isn't exactly the BIG hang out with the family type of guy.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

smiley said:


> I'd honestly prefer to let my husband go hang out and establish my trust by behaving responsibly on his own..



This is the real problem !!!

The fact is you cannot control how he behaves.

You do not get to choose what he does and trust me... you cannot nag and complain or threaten him into submission. Your telling him he can't do soemthing will only make him do it more.

I think you are disappointed in him and his choices, but giving him ultimatums of his behavior is not the way to go... more so since you were a stripper? ( I guess thats what your post was about). 
If you want to rebuild trust in him he is going to have to make the choices of how to behave on his own and the fact is he may not choose what you prefer.


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## smiley (Jul 15, 2009)

preso said:


> You have asked him not to go...........
> and thats all you can do as you sure can't force him.
> 
> THATS MY POINT.
> He is a grown man, not a child. You may in fact have to accept you do not control him. No one likes to be told what to do and given ultimatuims and if you do... it will ruin your marriage totally as he will start sneaking around.


I do not need to force him or control him. All of the changes, the communication, the coming clean about his deceit- it has ALL been initiated by him. HE wanted to be make changes as he felt a loss of intimacy in the act of deceiving his wife. These changes have not been forced. He voluntarily cut off ties w/his friends months ago, the female friend hadn't even been on the scene for several months prior to him coming clean about the strip club incidences. Yes, he does want to reconnect w/his friends but HE suggested we get counsel on how to go about that in a healthy way for our marriage as the trust has been damaged. 

I don't tell my husband what to do. As a general rule (minus the strip club incidents) we mutually respect each other's input and use it as a guide in our decisions. I don't need to control him, he wants to please me because I want to do the same.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

so you, husband and the therapist want to rebuild trust after strip club outings by having you hang out with your husband and his friend...........

that sounds pretty dumb to me.


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## Mrs B (Sep 29, 2008)

preso said:


> Would be uncomfortable because its plain wrong !
> How would you like your husband to tell you he wants to be with you when you go out with your girlfriends because he feels they enable you?
> He needs to decide whom he needs to hang out with ON HIS OWN. He is an adult, isn't he?
> Man alive, if my husband said that to me... I would resent him forever because I am a grown woman and he is not my parent.


IF my husband ever had concerns over any of my friendships it would be for a very good reason so I would listen to him. He is not controlling so if was ever concerned about my friendships there would be a good reason for it and I would hear him out. 

He does need to decide on his own, and unless she is holding a gun to his head that is exactly what he gets to do. She is not giving him ultimatums, she sounds like a fair, loving wife who wants to improve her marriage, not break it up by being a control freak- not the vibe I get at all.


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## NothingMan (Jul 16, 2009)

I cant get over the fact he told you about his thoughts. I've always thought if you wanted someone to know something, you tell them out loud. If your only thinking it, it's not something you want to share. I mean, seriously, what was he thinking.

secondly, as far as strip clubs go, depending on the state you live in, some places dont allow touching of any kind. No grinding, no fondling etc. The club nearest me is that way..I went there a week ago, since my wife was out of town, spent an hour and a half there with a friend of mine (who sounds like your husbands friend alarmingly) had 2 coke's and felt like a degenerate and left. Should I tell my wife I went? I know she wouldnt like it, which is why I went when she was away. The thing is, it's really not that big of a deal. I didnt touch anyone, hell, I didnt want to touch anyone..it was more a reminder like "Oh yah, I remember now, this place sucks."

However, If your husband is going to strip clubs in say, montreal, then you have a problem. You see, in that city, most clubs allow the patron, thats your husband or preso or me, to touch. Touch anything. Thats right. All of it. That sort of establishment is one that no married man, happily or otherwise should go to.

The clubs in the USA are tame. Like my old man used to say, It doesnt matter where you get your appetite...as long as you go home to eat.

On to the counseling. As a man, I have to say it sounds to me like he's paying you lipservice. By that I mean, he's telling you what he thinks you want to hear. Atleast, if it were me, Id be telling a whole different story in my head. Though that doesnt seem like a real option for him since he's got a habit of spilling thoughts.

Look at this way, at this point you have him over a barrel. He knows your pissed, he knows he has to rebuild trust with you. This is a prime opportunity for you to really take control of the relationship. You've done a fine job already by alienating him from his best friend and from an old friend he used to have a non-sexual relationship with. Maybe you could get him to move to your old hometown and get a job working for your dad that way you could really put the screws to him.

Just remember, you may want to change him..but you'll find that in the end after all the changing is done, your left with a shell of a man with no way to stand up for himself. And you'll hate him for it. Even though you made him that way. 



John


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## smiley (Jul 15, 2009)

preso said:


> so you, husband and the therapist want to rebuild trust after strip club outings by having you hang out with your husband and his friend...........
> 
> that sounds pretty dumb to me.


So you are wasting your time responding to my post.......why?


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

NothingMan said:


> Just remember, you may want to change him..but you'll find that in the end after all the changing is done, your left with a shell of a man with no way to stand up for himself. And you'll hate him for it. Even though you made him that way.
> 
> 
> 
> John



:iagree:

ps, smiley I was responsing to your question, if it sounds like a good idea.
and I don't think it sounds like a good idea.


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## srena200 (Jul 13, 2009)

What are you worried about? The friend from 20 years ago dam sure does not look like she did 20 years ago so who cares? Just because he is panting about some past chance does not mean she gives a rat's butthole about him. If you are remotely concerned then man up and reach out to her and get the 4-1-1 that he certainly will not give you on his own.
As for the married man who is dragging your husband to clubs - if it is everynight - your husband and his friend are trying to be single again. If it is now and there once or twice a month - leave that alone and let him have some fun. Face it MARRIAGE GETS BORING after a while - if you say it does not then you are lieing to yourself. You and him should have some friends that you get hang out with outside of the family activities as long as they are platonic buddy relationships and nothing romantic.
Let him know your wishes. If he ignores them - he does not care about your feelings or the marriage and you may have to face it that he does not care about your feelings, or the marriage.


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## smiley (Jul 15, 2009)

NothingMan said:


> I cant get over the fact he told you about his thoughts. I've always thought if you wanted someone to know something, you tell them out loud. If your only thinking it, it's not something you want to share. I mean, seriously, what was he thinking.
> 
> secondly, as far as strip clubs go, depending on the state you live in, some places dont allow touching of any kind. No grinding, no fondling etc. The club nearest me is that way..I went there a week ago, since my wife was out of town, spent an hour and a half there with a friend of mine (who sounds like your husbands friend alarmingly) had 2 coke's and felt like a degenerate and left. Should I tell my wife I went? I know she wouldnt like it, which is why I went when she was away. The thing is, it's really not that big of a deal. I didnt touch anyone, hell, I didnt want to touch anyone..it was more a reminder like "Oh yah, I remember now, this place sucks."
> 
> ...


I do NOT want to change HIM. I want him to not go to the strip club again because I want his attention on ME and my body, I am his WIFE. When it comes to his needs, sexual or otherwise, I want to meet them. I don't want him looking outside me to other women for gratification. I don't think that this act defines who he is. I am not asking him to change, only to change his behavior. 

I want him to not get drunk and drive, because it would be devastating for me and our children if something happened to him. I want the consideration of a phone call if he is going to be out late into the night, not because I'm controlling or acting like a Mother, but because I am his WIFE, his life long partner. We don't live as two independent roommates. I am concerned about him when it gets that late and I don't know if he's safe. He feels the same concern for me. Again, this is about behavior, not altering his personality. And no, I don't care to have him work with my Dad. He has a great job that he's happy doing and I'm proud of him for it. 

And, YES, I want there to be honesty about the thoughts and feelings he has about a woman that he DID, at one time, have a physical/romantic relationship. Regardless of "intercourse," there was a definite sexual nature to their encounters. I do not randomly grill him on his inner thoughts. But because he has brought up the idea of maintaining that friendship during a rocky time in our relationship after she has all but fallen off the face of the Earth, I feel it's perfectly appropriate to talk openly about this stuff. (Would you want your wife going to lunch and spending time w/a Man if she had been fantasizing about his body while she touched her own? And specifically after you found out she'd been hiding things from you that were hurtful?) I am not of the "ignorance is bliss" school of thought. Marriage is an intimate relationship. 

After we got married, this woman has rarely called him. Not because I have alienated her, but because she probably respects that he has a wife and family that she doesn't know. She is single and perhaps she'd feel like a third wheel. At this point, their friendship would be continued by his efforts alone. 

To comment on your recent outing to the club- you justify your behavior by saying it's not that big a deal. If your wife felt the same way, you wouldn't have to go while she's out of town to avoid being truthful. It's not quite the same as waiting till your wife goes out of town to watch that "guyish" war movie, watch sports all day long, or do something that she simply doesn't share your preference on. And it seems ironic that you would sneak to do something that would (I'm guessing) hurt and offend your wife just so you could remind yourself of why it "sucks." Seems to me if it sucks, it wouldn't be worth the risk of causing a rift with someone you love and care about. Oh, but wait, she'll never know, so problem solved. :scratchhead:


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Sounds to me like you are trying to fill ALL your husbands needs... that is not reasonable as no human being can do that. Only God can do that.
Your most likely not going to be able to change him in the way you choose.. and I agree with what John said, lip service and everything else.
I also can't believe you grilled him on his private sexual thoughts about an ex GF.
I wish you the best and hope thingfs work out for you but as I see it, your going to destroy your marriage with this strip club and his friends thing. 
Going with him and his buddy is not a good idea on any level. He needs to be able to pick and choose his own friends, even if they are people you don't like or approve of. 
Best of luck.


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## smiley (Jul 15, 2009)

preso said:


> Sounds to me like you are trying to fill ALL your husbands needs... that is not reasonable as no human being can do that. Only God can do that.
> Your most likely not going to be able to change him in the way you choose.. and I agree with what John said, lip service and everything else.
> I also can't believe you grilled him on his private sexual thoughts about an ex GF.
> I wish you the best and hope thingfs work out for you but as I see it, your going to destroy your marriage with this strip club and his friends thing.
> ...


As said before, I am not really interested in going along on his outings w/him and his friend. I'd rather him hang out with his buddy solo than be present. I'm confident that he's had a change of heart and his actions will reflect that in the future. 

You believe I "grilled" him on his private sexual thoughts, I don't feel that's true at all. I asked some questions that were relevant to our discussion at the time and he was truthful. The fact that he has been so open w/me is a reflection of how much he trusts me. I don't really think that's indicative of a controlling relationship. Everyone who knows me would laugh at your assessment of me. I am incredibly graceful and easygoing w/my husband in general. 

"I" am going to destroy the marriage with this strip club thing? :scratchhead:

I guess you think that women who aren't okay w/strip clubs should just accept it anyway as a Man's entitlement. I disagree and think that's really pretty one sided- basically the Man's side of it. Going to a strip club is an option (for some), not a right in marriage. I'm not judging every marriage in this category. But in my own, I believe I should be a part of that decision. I am simply not okay with my feelings being disregarded. 

Preso, I have to respectfully disagree with most of the things you've said. Best wishes to you too.


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## NothingMan (Jul 16, 2009)

smiley said:


> I am not asking him to change, only to change his behavior.


I cant see a difference between who we are and what our behaviors are.



smiley said:


> To comment on your recent outing to the club- you justify your behavior by saying it's not that big a deal. If your wife felt the same way, you wouldn't have to go while she's out of town to avoid being truthful. It's not quite the same as waiting till your wife goes out of town to watch that "guyish" war movie, watch sports all day long, or do something that she simply doesn't share your preference on. And it seems ironic that you would sneak to do something that would (I'm guessing) hurt and offend your wife just so you could remind yourself of why it "sucks." Seems to me if it sucks, it wouldn't be worth the risk of causing a rift with someone you love and care about. Oh, but wait, she'll never know, so problem solved. :scratchhead:


Ok this is how men operate. In case your DH hasnt completely broken the code, Ill do it. When your DH knows you dont want him to do something (strip club) the level of not wanting him to go is directly proportional to how much he wants to go.

Lets say your DH smoked pot. Alot of us, myself included, enjoy the odd joint once in a while. After you get married you decide that that sort of action is no longer acceptable behaviour of your husband and you ask him to stop. He might indeed stop. For a while. But when your not around...he's gonna do it again. Does this mean he doesnt love you anymore? No. Does it make him a bad guy? Not in my opinion.

In my situation, with my wife, who is anti-strip club like yourself. She's also anti-masturbation as sex relief. Even though she wont give it up for months (sometimes 3 to 6 months) at a time, she considers me masturbating to be "cheating". CHEATING! Can you believe it? This is my point, her opinion is so completely unreasonable (deny me sex and say I cant masturbate) that I just cant consider my breaking that rule to be as devastating as you might make it sound.

Let your man have his man nights out with his ne'er do well buddy. Let him be a man. Stop making him tell you his thoughts. Your gonna ruin him and then resent him for it.



John


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

NothingMan said:


> I cant see a difference between who we are and what our behaviors are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Just like I have resigned to just let my husband eat his cheeseburgers, poterhouse steaks, fried chicken and 4 qts of soda pop everyday.


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## raising5boyz (Nov 8, 2008)

Wow...wow...wow. You two are being really hard on her. I think she does sound like a reasonable woman. I think he felt guilty about what he was doing, and he wanted change...and included her in it means he wants her help with the changes. If he didn't feel guilty about it, chances are he would of kept it to himself and kept going. 

This "buddy" of his has encouraged him to do things that left him feeling guilty. Him choosing to modify his relationship with his buddy to preserve his marriage is WONDERFULL!!! It shows his love for his wife. 

NothingMan: Sounds like you have felt trapped in your marriage. Like your wife is your enemy. If you didn't want to have a partner is life....why did you get married? Marriage is about change....it is about putting another persons feelings above your own....it is about building an amazing relationship, partnership, and life TOGETHER. 

Every person should want change in their life. I do. If you are honest with yourself, we all need change and improvement. I want to be a better person 5 years from now than I am now. I hope I am a better person than I was 5 years ago. Life to me is about improvement. And that goes for my marriage as well.

Smiley: I may consider letting him reconnect with his friend from years ago. It depends on his intentions and exactly why he feels the need to reconnect. For me, I would want to be included in every aspect of that reconnection. From finding her, to the initial conversations, and certainly if they meet up. Good friends can be hard to find...maybe she would become a good friend to both of you. 

I will say fantasies are normal....they have their place in a relationship as well....they just need to be kept as fantasies.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Sandy55 said:


> "He wants my blessing to get in touch w/her so that their friendship doesn't fizzle. He wants her to be welcome as a friend of the family."
> 
> I've got some ocean front property in Arizona I'll sell you if you want!:rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> ...


what did your son tekll you about what goes on in a strip club? did he tell you about the embarrassing behavior the old men hanging along the rail do? i've never seen a more embarrassing setting for a *man* to be involved in.

i'm telling you from experience. i did a male-targetted radio show. we did many live appearances at strip clubs. you know why? because these old dufuses can be easily manipulated on the radio. we'd make "friends" with them and the girls at the club, then the guys would call in to the show and open right up on the air. pure voyeurism on the radio. big ratings. but i wouldn't want to be those guys in their real life. such tools!

okay guys, see ya at the strip club. and remember, the more money you spend on the girls, the more they'll love you! *not!*


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## smiley (Jul 15, 2009)

NothingMan said:


> Ok this is how men operate. In case your DH hasnt completely broken the code, Ill do it. When your DH knows you dont want him to do something (strip club) the level of not wanting him to go is directly proportional to how much he wants to go.
> 
> 
> John


Perhaps. Obviously no one likes the feeling of being told what to do or having limits on their behavior, even if it's only perceived. I think there are two schools of thought here. One (the school that you and Preso belong to) would say that married people are "adults" and any party attempting to establish boundaries or express concern about behavioral patterns is "controlling" the other. The other school would say that in marriage, it's necessary at times to change certain behaviors or to make sacrifices for the best outcome in your relationship, for the greater good. I would bet that when both marriage partners fall into the later category, they have a much lower divorce rate and are generally happier in their relationships. My independent "rights" don't take precedence over the stability and happiness in my marriage. 

Let's put it another way since you are so concerned with control: let's say my husband and I talked about strip club outings prior to marriage and came to a conclusion that they weren't going to be a part of the deal (which we did). Then he begins going anyway (which he did). Let's say he never had that change of heart a few months back which prompted him to confess, but instead continued going. Then years from now I find evidence that he's been going weekly, all along. I confront him and he says "I knew you didn't want me to so I didn't tell you. You telling me not to made me want to go even more so this is as much your fault as it is mine. I'm not going to stop now." Who's being controlled at that point? ME. I would have to reevaluate whether my marriage was one that I could even tolerate. 

It seems that you have an adversarial stance with your spouse (as someone else said too) and don't view your relationship as a true partnership where both parties submit to each other and regard each other's thoughts and opinions. 

As for your wife holding out for 3-6 months. That sucks!! I think this is a definite indicator that you and her are having some major issues between the two of you (if there isn't some medical reason for her not putting out).


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## Blonddeee (Dec 17, 2008)

I think your husband knew that he was doing something that wouldn't be ok with you- and he decided to come clean about it. I think that is a very good sign of the communication and love that you have in your relationship- a lot of men and women wait till they get caught doing something wrong and then come clean... I don't think you are being controlling to want honesty in your marriage... not at all. He could have just stopped doing it and kept his mouth shut, but he didn't.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

smiley said:


> Perhaps. Obviously no one likes the feeling of being told what to do or having limits on their behavior, even if it's only perceived. I think there are two schools of thought here. One (the school that you and Preso belong to) would say that married people are "adults" and any party attempting to establish boundaries or express concern about behavioral patterns is "controlling" the other.
> 
> The other school would say that in marriage, it's necessary at times to change certain behaviors or to make sacrifices for the best outcome in your relationship, for the greater good. I would bet that when both marriage partners fall into the later category, they have a much lower divorce rate and are generally happier in their relationships. My independent "rights" don't take precedence over the stability and happiness in my marriage.
> 
> .


so much for opinions and psycho babble. Doesn't even make sense, like double talk.
All marriages have to allow for partners to change behaviors and in the OP's case, its her that needs to change and lay off him or telling him what to do, who to be friends with 
for the good of the marriage.


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