# Husband wants to be friends



## NewLife2013

I am new on this forum. I never thought I would be in this situation, asking complete strangers to hear me out and help.

Have been together for over 10 years, 5 year old child. I thought we had a decent marriage and relationship, there were things that were bogging me but I thought we were strong. I am difficult to please, he says, and am never happy. Was not supporting him in his demanding carrier. He was working a lot and was distant and is generally closed. We had good times, had sex less often than 10 years ago but still decent amount. Were going out and spending time together without our child. I thought we were happy, or happier than a lot of other couples. 

10 days ago we had an argument, nothing major. He was angry but eventually calmed down and was actually even nice. I couldn’t let go and the whole thing built into me nagging and mentioning other things.. He said this is no good and he should leave. I say ok, leave, many times until he actually packed his staff and left. I was calling him for a couple of days after that and tried to get him back. Said we should try counselling, he said no point. I’ve stopped contacting him and tried to do 180. I know I need to be strong for me and my child. He stopped by on Saturday to pick our child up and take him out for lunch etc. He did the same thing on Sunday. I made sure I looked good when he stopped by (did not want to get into the house) and did not ask much, was polite and civil. 

Yesterday he texted. He said it was about time we discussed matters. He would stop by after our child’s bedtime and sleep over on the sofa. So he did... I was sort of happy to see him. I made a mistake and asked him whether he was hungry. He said he was not here to make peace. Sat in the far corner of the living room and said that it’s all over. He was not happy for a while (although we had fun and were intimate even two days before he left, he did not seem too unhappy to me) and that we have a toxic relationship. We argue a lot and he feels there’s no way back. He wants what’s best for our child. He will move back in at the end of the week and want us to be friends for the sake of our child until we work things out (not getting back together but how we end this). He also got tired of living like a gypsy (I guess he stayed at a motel or work related travel some days) and feels he should be able to stay in his home. It is his home too and he wants to spend time with his child in his home and would like me to go out, have fun. He wants me to be happy. That what he wants the most. He always told me in the past that it is difficult to make me happy because I always want more, now he says it would be unfair to me to continue this as he is not for me and can’t make me happy. He has a great level of respect for me and thinks I am a great person. It is difficult because of that and he never even thought about another women. Said he wish he could as that would be easier. He wants to agree what financial split would be fair. I asked him about how long we do that, what do we do for Christmas, should we do some things together with our child. He did not think of the detail at all but does not want to eat at the house or wash anything, he does not want to go anywhere together (our child’s Christmas play, we would go there separately). 

I felt I could go on and do 180 but after he said this was it, I am a mess. I even told him last night that I care for him and am not angry. I told him I was worried about him and thought whether he was safe or whether his driving might be impaired as a result of lack of sleep. Other things I should have not such as mentioning good moments of our marriage. I said I felt there were more good than bad in it... He stopped me and said that was wrong and that I am under the illusion that our marriage was working. 

Any thoughts or advice please! 
How do I behave when he is around, living in the same household but want out? Do I start any conversations? Should I stick to practicalities or should I start any conversations about us?
I am currently feeling desperate to get back together....


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## Couleur

How sad that you find yourself in this situation.

It sounds to me that you know what you *should* be doing (the 180), but like so most left behind spouses you are finding it hard to consistently follow through with your plan. 

It sounds like there is no point in initiating any talk about your past relationship, or trying to figure out why your H has reached his decision to leave the marriage. As frustrating as it is, he isn't prepared to give you answers right now, AND even if he did try to explain why he is unhappy you must realize that he is currently in the process of rewriting your life together to focus on the bad parts -- by seeing the bad and not the good, it is easier for him to leave the relationship. 

So for the practical matters -- 
(1) Decide if you are willing to have him move back into the house. Is there a spare room he can stay in? If not, then consider telling him that since he has decided to move out he needs to find his own place. Obviously, if you two own your home together than you will need to decide if you can afford to stay in it or whether you will need to sell it. Also, if you take this path you will need to separate your finances so that this is possible. Educating yourself on divorce and custody law will be important.
(2) Come up with a basic co-parenting plan. Write it out. If you like, you can write a document in google docs and then share it with your H, so he can make comments on it. What kind of custody arrangement do you want? does your H want? Will it be a 50-50 split, or will you be the primary parent and have your H look after your child every other weekend and on Wednesday evenings? Once you've decided on the split, then suggest to your H that you start implementing it immediately. Tell your H, "since junior will be living with me on M, T, Th and F I will be in charge of picking him up from school, getting his dinner and putting him to bed." You can decide if you are willing to have your H in the shared parts of the house during those days or whether you need him to stick to his room (or stay out altogether). Then you can say, "you will have junior on W, and the weekend. I will either leave the house on those days or stay in my room." After you've gotten the details for the next few weeks sorted out, mark the days on the calendar and share the plan with your child.
(3) Consider if you and your H can work out the details of your separation by email rather than in one-on-one conversations. Or, alternatively, set a time for you to talk and stick to having conversations only during that time.
(4) Line up individual counseling for you and consider family therapy for your child.


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## devotion

Tough situation, went through similar (without the complication of the kid) of a wife who had made up her mind to leave, but also wanted access to the house (which is fair, since we both paid for it, etc). So did the in-house separation thing. She also wanted to remain friends. In my situation, without kids, I didn't want to do that, and basically cut off all communication and once the paperwork/formalities are done I hope to never talk to her again. 

Obviously with the kids you will have to maintain contact -- but there's a difference between 'friends' and 'civil'. I think you can be civil, especially in front of the kid, but don't need to be friends if you don't want to be. As the party being left, the party who thought the marriage was OK (despite having some bumps) I found everytime I see my SO that I feel a mix of anger, disappointment, and other emotions I don't like. So I minimize that. My house is big enough that we can stay in our separate corners, and I try to basically use shared space (kitchen, etc) not at the same time. 

I would recommend you continue the divorce 180 path. It may help bring you two together, but unfortunately most likely it will just help you prepare for the future as a single person. It helped me disassociate my identity from the relationship, because if I didn't, and the marriage ended (like mine did, and yours likely will) .. then what will be left of you? 

Good luck and I'm sorry to hear of your situation.


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## Bee2012

I am going through the same situation. It's awkward to say the least. My spouse and I want to keep things civil for the kids before Christmas as we don't want to spoil it for them.
Remember the 180 is for you. If it's not going to work out between both of you, the 180 will help you to move on. If it is going to work, it will give him time to think about what it would be like to lose you. 
Hang in there. I keep telling myself there is life after divorce.


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## NewLife2013

Thank you all for your advice and support, it means a lot to me. 
I have not posted since my husband moved back in. I am confused and not sure what is happening.
First few days were awkward to say the least. He seemed angry, sad, easily frustrated. Now he seems more at peace. It seems almost he is at peace with his decision that for us to part is the best thing. On the other hand, our interaction seems a bit easier now. 
I made many mistakes during this 10 day period since he is back in the house. I initiated ‘us’ conversation a couple of times. It felt he was ‘giving in’ on some points but his conclusion is firm that he does not think it is a good idea and that I will soon realise that’s the best and that I don’t love him (he thought that for a while I have not behaved as if I loved him). He feels we don’t love eachohter and should not be in a loveless marriage, we don’t deserve this. He feels in a tunnel and feels the only way is out without eachother. I said that that is not the only way out and we could get out together in a redefined and better relationship. I suggested he works on his happiness and I work on mine (i.e. we do things we enjoy separately because we neglected that due to our demanding carriers and a child). He said if we need a crisis to do it that way, it is not worth it. All in all, he has not given me much room to work on.
The worst thing is that I have no piece and continue torturing myself. I am not getting any better... I look for clues (e.g. he did the weekly shopping, he doesn’t do little things that used to annoy me such as leaving the dishes in the sink, he throws the rubbish out, he does not close the door of the bathroom when he is peeing and he got naked in the room with an open door while I was in the corridor and he say I saw him, he asked me to do him a couple of favours, we went out for lunch once all together and as we used to share food, he put some of his lunch on my plate even though I said no). I keep hoping and cannot let go. That is the only thing that keeps me a little bit happy, that hope. At the same time, he seldom initiates conversation.
He went out on Saturday. He did not want to tell me anything (said not relevant for our situation). He stayed overnight. I know he was with a friend and don’t think it is anything to worry about (he would have done it even in ‘good times’) but it bothers me that he is so secretive. He does not ask me where I am going and when I would be back ... only if it impacts on our son’s schedule. 
As for Christmas, I suggested we do something together for our son’s sake. He suggested he books lunch and we go iceskating. Now I see this as an opportunity... 
I am going insane here.
I start counselling on Friday. I am also considering antidepressants if I don’t feel better by mid January. I had post-natal depression that got away on its own (it was very bad) by spending time with family and changing jobs. I am worried it may come back in a worse form...


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## C3156

Sorry that this has happened to you. I know how you feel being on the receiving end of things where you don't feel like you know what is going on.

Based on what you said, it sounds as though your husband has made up his mind about ending your marriage. He is done but is being very amiable about the situation. It is not happy but could be a lot worse. I admire your ability to hope for better things, but practically you need to start working on you. 

- Go to therapy and work on those things you know about yourself. This can help a lot and give you the opportunity to think out loud.
- Start to do things you like to do: exercise, paint, join a meetup group, ect. This will help you take your mind off things and also prepare you for life on your own again.
- Start the process of separating your finances. Get your own bank account. If your husband is willing, separate the joint monetary assests. Include: checking, savings, investments, retirement accounts, and pensions.
- Do you have a job and can support yourself? Most cannot live on pure support alone and you will need to be able to provide for yourself and your child. 
- Inventory your assets. You will need to start dividing these as well.
- You need to determine custody and come up with a schedule of when your child will spend time with each parent.

Ideally you all will be able to work through this without fighting and the need to resort to lawyers. 

Remember this, it hurts right now, BUT, there is life after divorce if you allow yourself the ability to learn and grow from the situation.


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## turnera

He met someone. He's covering it up and gaslighting you so you feel responsible for driving him away. 

Have you checked his phone for numbers you don't recognize?


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## NewLife2013

Thank you for your responses C3156 and turnera.
*C3156* - I think that is a very good practical advice you provide. I have started spending more time with close friends (going over for sleepovers to get out of the house when he's around),going out and reconnecting with old friends and reading loads, self improvement books etc and signed up at a local gym. I have also been dressing up when going out but I don't think he notices that. Did not notice when we were together not sure he'd notice now!
I have seen a psychiotherapist and am starting couceling this friday. I have also done a lot of crying on sholders as well. That seems to help. I am much stronger around him now than I used to be. I swore to myself I will not start a conversation with him any more (it was mostly me starging any conversations in this 3 weeks) and no way he is going to see my unhappy. 
*turnera* - I probably should have not but I have checked both of his phones, all of his e-mails and FB messages and chats. I checked all credit cards and accounts. There's nothing out of ordinary. That's how i found out he stayed at friends's couch this Sat after a football game. To be honest, I think it would be easier if there was someone else. It would hurt but it would also kill any hope which is what I struggle to let go off...
I guess like many around here, I would like us back together and seem to remember only the positives. THe fact that he is amiable is making it hard for me, that's why I love him and his behavour keeps reminding me of that


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## turnera

Well, in the meantime, get this book. It will help you understand what your marriage was supposed to look like. Maybe you can recognize some things you can change: His Needs Her Needs by Harley.


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## NewLife2013

Somehow, I have to hold on to that hope - I know it is wrong but I can't let go. I analyise everything he does or says..Wishing for something over which I have no control only brings me more suffering...
I am trying to look at this from the best possible perspective. Am trying to see what went wrong on my part and see whether I can change that for my own sake (and say for the sake of raising my child properly).
Basically, I am one of those people who throw themselves into a relationship with no boundaries. Good in the eaerly stages but it gets heavy with time. I lost my identity to our relationship and it seams to have made me insecure, defensive, unable to compromise. I did not assume responsiblity for my own happiness and life choices (I blamed him for all sorts of things that went wrong with my carrier, friends, part of the country we live in...) Equaly, I did not seem to have given him the freedom to be a separate individual. He is away for a couple of days now to do something he always wanted to do. I said that was great and glad to see him doing that. He got very angry saying that I prevented him from doing it when we were together (always found a reason why he shold not do it then or there) and it seems very unnatural that I am glad he is doing it now. 
I have no say no as to what he does nor should I but I hope once he starts doing all these things he cares for, he realises I could fit somewhere there too. I need to be patient and see where we end up... He said he is in no hurry for us to discuss separaton although I have no signal from him that reconciliation is possible. Sad...


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## turnera

You need therapy to find a BETTER way to live your llife. Just because you 'throw yourself into' something doesn't mean it's the healthiest way to live. Look at what you're stuck with.

Time to change something?


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## NewLife2013

I know you are very right *turnera*, but at the moment, I am still stuck in that pain that I ruined everything, and he was nearly perfect. Checking his notes, e-mails etc only makes me hope more because there is lot there that indicated his commitment (prior to this) and plans for our future together (he was secretly taking a course to learn something I really value and few other things he had on his self improvement list that I would value such as learning my native language and my dialect).
I am struggling to detach, if anyone has any suggestions, please shoot. I am already doing loads practically but not sure *how to close it off emotionally*. It just seems that I am going to explode in my desire to show him my love...I know, he’s not very loving at the moment and that would be wrong. I keep reminding myself that he does not want to reconciliate but just cannot make myself believe it yet..


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## turnera

Well, my take is that there is more to it than what you're explaining. Maybe you could give us more of your background. What your childhoods were like. What your dating was like. How he used to treat you. What caused things to go wrong.


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## NewLife2013

Ok, a bit of history. This is going to be long!
Our childhoods: we both come from fairly traditional families. Our parents did not have perfect marriages but they did stick to eachoter. My parents had a lot of irrelevant fights when me and my siblings were young but after we’ve grown up to early teens, they seem to have calmed down and are good partners now and are supportive of eachoter’s differences and interests. His parents got along well when young. However, since the kids left they are arguing all the time, small and big things and his mom has been threatening to leave. They seldom have meaningful conversations. 
As for our situation, we did not date very long. We moved in together within few months and got married after two years. We go along perfectly and provided undivided support to eachother. I am his first serious relationship where he’s shown commitment. He had girlfriends before but they were more dating and games rather than commitment. There has always been the two of us. We had friends but socialised together. We seldom got out without the other one. Everything was calm and perfect until we had our child. I had a very difficult birth - both myself and the baby nearly died and I was suffering from PSTD and postnatal depression which I never addressed. Was prescribed antidepressants but he was against it. Now I think he was not supportive but just though I could deal with it... Shortly he started travelling for work a lot. Some sort of parenting burden that he started thinking constantly that he makes little and that he needs to step up. He got one promotion after another, done very well. But he was absent a lot and always tired and unavailable. No interest in socialising or doing any activities. Well, seldom. Things were brilliant on holidays. Sex was good although sparse. My mom was staying with us as I needed logistical help (I was working long hours too). Things were not going well. I told him that I was not happy and that he needs to get a job that does not require that much travel and time away from the family. I wanted my husband. He was stressed and we had fights over silly little things. Then we had a major fight over him being away and I pushed him physically and told him to leave. So he did. Stayed in a hotel for few days, we talked over the phone and he came back full of love and commitment. He said I was right that he needs to communicate more and better and that he needs to spend more time with the family. Changed jobs and stopped travelling almost altogether. Helped a lot with child drop off/pick ups. I got promoted and was very happy. From then on, I thought things were going well. Two years since that happened.
Now, we started quarrelling again, stupid things again but it was almost non-stop for 3 days. He was very stressed at work and had important things going on. Said I did not get that and was not supportive. He said he was going to leave for good this time. I said go, just go. So he did and was away for 2 weeks. He only came back to live separately in the same house in order to talk separation terms but is in no hurry to start talking. Now he is telling me that that two years ago things broke for him and he does not think it was the same afterwards. He does not know whether he could ever trust me. He said that he was the only one that has been working on things since. I have not changed a bit. His complaint about me is that I nag over stupid things and that I am never happy. I have to admit that I am a perfectionist and that I always look for problems in order to solve them. I have been overworked and stressed too and let my anger show few times. He thinks he cannot make me happy. He is an introvert and I am an extravert. I need to talk things through, he withdraws when things get tough. He generally does not speak much, in social situations he does but I think that is the social pressure. All three times we talked recently he told me that he does not believe in us, he is tired of trying and does not want to go back where we were. He does not think he loves me anymore and it might have been some time that he felt that way, he does not know when he stopped loving me. Loves me as a person and respects me but is tired of being ‘beaten up’ by me. I always have to win. I don’t respect his views. . Thinks better for both of us to go separate ways. I should be with someone more compatible with me, that is to say someone who says ‘I love you’, holds hands and shows affection more. My husband is a bit reserved, does not pay compliments or say touch my hair. He can be quite distant at times and I learned how to deal with that but he says that maybe that is not his personality trait but rather his response to my, more extraverted character. He says that whatever he suggested in the past (I work less, I stop doing house work and cook less as it is exhausting me) I just ignored. Said unfair if I am to suggest we try that now. 
When I confronted him on the issue of future planning (we had a couple of holidays booked and paid for over the next 6 months and have been looking to upgrade our house to mention few examples) and that we had frequent sex, he said that after every fight, he was hoping but that the hope kept fading. He also said that this last fight was not the last drop and he was not planning the separation but that he just cannot do it anymore...


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## NewLife2013

A bit of an update...
We spent Christmas and the 26th together. We went out for a nice walk in the countryside on Christmas day and he booked us for lunch. He arranged everything. I started feeling more relaxed around him and even hugged him and kissed him on his cheek in the restaurant. On our way back to the car i looped my arm around his. He pulled away but I did it again. He started joking at first and then said he was doing all this for our son so we all spend time together during holidays. We had a nice chat in the evening, about irrelevant things and he asked me about Christmas present. He said he did not get anyone anything. I said I got him something he always wanted but left it in the office as I was afraid he would reject it.
26th we had lunch all together (he prepared something and he does not like doing anything in the kitchen). I complimented him but he said that I would have not said that during ‘good times’ but criticize him... He made several such remarks when I was trying to be nice. In the evening we all went out and he even fed me and we shared some sweets, alternating between bites. He cleaned my face. I felt good and we talked about all sorts of things (nor our relationships). Then he mentioned a movie he wanted to see and I said we could go together. He went quite... 
That evening I got annoyed him being on FB and tagging a male friend of his in the p[hotos of scenery he took and even the one I suggested he takes...did not tag me but we were there together. I could not handle that and all I found out earlier that day went out. I checked his fb messages when he left it open and he was discussing this girl with his best friend. He said something along the lines that he fancies her... I confronted him and he said all the nasty things one could imagine, what a horrible person i am etc etc... He said he was 100% clean and I was just looking for something in him in order not to feel bad that I screwed up our marriage. He kept saying how inocnec that comment was, something between 2 males...
I felt we were getting better and then all small improvement made have gone since... 
I have been going insane since, total mess...I don’t know how people cope with the fact that something so important in my life is over.


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## turnera

Well, I guess you can't make him want you, but it's a marathon, not a sprint. It's not over til he never sees you again. In the meantime the best thing you can do is try to see it all through HIS eyes. Becasue in the end, what matters is what HE sees when he looks at you. He left quite a few hints in that last post, so I'd start there.


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## NewLife2013

I seem to know what to do and what not to do but it is difficult. LEt's say that patience is not my virtue.

I have my own version of 180 which does include some loving actions (he did say that he did not feel loved in the past months) but rather non verbal acitons of love. Whem I told him few weeks ago how much I loved him he said it was all words and he's done letting me prove it...

I know my biggest problem is that I was, w/o realising, a bit too controling of his time (had to spend most/all his free time w me and our son). NOthing he did was enough for me, I never felt secure. \i guess he had enough of that. I know i need to give him complete sense of freedom now and see how he feels. 

Now, we spend time together for New Years. We had a friend come over visit for dinner and we all went to see fireworks together. He did not kiss me at midnight, I did give him a small kiss and tried to kiss him again. He said I was harassing him... He then said I should not insist...he does not feel like it. So, I should not insist on anything...

He was very ill recently and I was not sure what to do. Anything I offered he would say no... I made a nice soup and he ate it, it was only for him and he never said than you. He did not accept my Christmas gift. Actually got upset about it... 

It is difficult to stay sane when he is in complete control. I am not even sure whether it is a good thing that he's at home or he should move out... I feel I have more chance to show him that I can change if he is here, on the other hand does that really happen or is he only going to look at negatives to prove that his initial desire to separe was the right thing. ANy thoughts on this?


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## turnera

It sounds like you have a really bad self esteem issue. If you spent more time focused on yourself and not on him, and take steps to learn to like yourself more, it would matter less what HE wants or does, and THAT would make you more attractive to him.

Are you attending counseling for yourself?


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## NewLife2013

You are absolutely right, I always had a bit of a self esteem problem and also a significant fear of abandonement. Both are getting to me now but I am in an extreme situation with his 'I mean it' threat to leave. He did tell me that our problems started when his career started progressing and he had to be away from home (I don't think I exaggerated when I had 'enough is enough' moment after his 14 months working away from home M-F while I was holding a full time job and taking care of our baby son). He stopped traveling after that (2 years ago). 

I am seeing a councillor, although I saw her only once (going again tomorrow so will update). I saw a psychologist and we got down to this abandonement issue which stems from my childhood. The psychologist told me to drop the ball and as you said turnera to let him have it his way for some time and see whether that's acceptable to me (other women in his life would not be but him having a more independent life w interest outside our family wouuld be absolutely fine). I an trying exactly this although I am afraid we will fall into total friendship as we are not intimate nor we share the same bed  This is getting to me the most, I really missed being with him physically...and of course I am affraid he will look for it elsewhere...


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## turnera

What are YOU doing outside the marriage?


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## NewLife2013

Hm, do you mean how I spend my time?
I have a decent, if not great job (which I have neglected recently due to this situation but planning to emerse myself into a bit more.) My boss and colleagues who I spoke about this are supportive. 
I have been talking to several friends (some other don't know yet) on a regular basis and I feel I have their support.
As my son is only 5 and we have no family around, I do spend a lot of time with him and organise some socials for him. That is by no means easy as I think he is the only kid in his class with parents that are/will likely not be together. 
I need to hit the gym again (easy as at work premises) and should be swimming more. 
I went out with friends about 3-4 times in the last 8 weeks (I would more but childcare is a problem). Spent a weekend at friend's place. 
I read, general stuff that interests me and then a LOT on all this marriage stuff...I have to admit that I fall into sometimes desperate states...wish I never got married etc...
That's really about it.
Oh, my son and I went to visit my family for a week and got back 2 days ago. I went out every night and really enjoyed spending time with old friends (I grew up in another country). Interestingly, my husband was upset that I did not find the time to call him so he was mainly calling and msging the first two days then he stopped...


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## turnera

Sounds like you two have an unhealthy dynamic around each other. Try to step back and realize you'll survive, no matter HOW this marriage turns out. Once you can wrap your head around that, you'll be able to deal with things better.


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## NewLife2013

Oh, my counselling appointment got cancelled today and i found out when I arrived to the clinic... Even worse, the counsellor is in a hospital and they think it is bets if I start with another one... I soooo needed to speak to her today.

At this point, I don’t see myself surviving w/o my marriage. I just don’t know how to get myself to think of anything else but my husband and our deeply troubled marriage. I feel this is one of the days that I cannot take it any more. Everything he does or does not do, what he wears or his conversations w our son (I am excluded even though I am there in the same room) is affecting me... I have not slept all this time, that’s nearly 2 months... My birthday is coming up and although I don’t expect a present or us going out, I expect something kind rather than no eye contact and cold ‘happy birthday’ with his chin down...

*Can you guys please give me some advice as to how to detach emotionally?* What does that really mean?


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## turnera

The best thing you can do is get away from him. Are you living together? When can you move out? And if you're feeling that desperate, call the emergency services, so you can get mental help right now.

Why do you say he is in complete control?


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## NewLife2013

Yes, that is the problem – we are currently living together in a relatively small home. I would prefer for him to live out (given that I mostly take care of our son’s needs and would not want to move him) but my husband thinks that he has the right to live in the home he 50% owns (he does legally). I was advised by my councillor not to move out (particularly not w/o my son) and that I have a good chance of keeping the ‘family’ home (which I would prefer). He was supposedly also advised not to move out until we formalise things (not sure whether because of our son’s custody or financial matters i.e. who gets the family home). 

I am very anxious around him. It is mainly because I still have R hope (not a good thing I know!) and don’t know what’s coming up – he may or may not go out this weekend, may stay out/sleep elsewhere all night or he may be back, he does not want to start the asset division conversation yet, he may as well be planning his move out date but the uncertainty around that is killing me, his parent think of coming over to visit (they told me but he did not even mention it to me)....*I think I have a problem with all this due to my emotional attachment to him and I would love to know how to just not care for him*. I know 180 is meant to do this and I am following it – not too difficult for most things apart to enjoy life w/o him, be cheerful and not think what he is up to, and I definitely cannot get a good nights sleep...

What do you mean by ‘mental health’ help? I sometimes call the help line for telephone counselling (not much help but I get to speak to someone). Sometimes I think I should get on antidepressants but my GP and councillor think it would be too early. I know it is the tension in our home that is killing me! I would like to somehow be able to move on with my life but I am stuck...


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## turnera

Do you have friends who can come over? Family? You need to start changing your life to not be about him. And he needs to SEE you moving on. Remember, the best way for him to want you is to see he can't have you. As long as you make it clear you want him, he's got it all - you and any other women fighting over him. Why would he want to change that? Start packing up his stuff. Get some boxes and box up one box a day - find a place to start stacking the boxes. Don't say a word. And yes, DO call that help line - every single day.


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## Bee2012

I can only speak for what worked for me newlife. I had mentally give up all hope of R and really with everything I had to move
On with my life. I am in the same situation. We still live in the same house and are working on a divorce. He wants to be "friends" too and invites me to sleep in the bedroom etc. 
I have been sleeping away from him in the living room cornices a month and a half. When he comes home from work the kids are bathed and fed, and I retire into another room while he spends time with them. 
In other words physical distance is what is needed. The less I hang around him, the less I seem to feel for him. And I tell myself many times a day that my life will not be over if we divorce. I am worthy of love and why be with someone who makes me feel otherwise. That being said, the holidays were a very hard time for me. I never wanted this. I wanted a family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bee2012

Darn auto spell. I have been sleeping in the living room for over a month
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NewLife2013

Thank you guys for your responses – I think him being out of our home is the best thing for me. Until that happens (need to think of a strategy, packing boxes is a good start), i will try to minimise any contact with him. Actually, I dread going home tonight but have no other plans after work. After all, i do want to spend time with my son but having him there makes me nervous and as a result I am not my best self with my child.

Bee – you are so brave, going through what you are going through and having made that decision. 

I sleep in our bedroom and he sleeps on the couch – i was even kind to suggest we alternate as he has bad back...My son recently insisted we all sleep in the ‘big’ bed together as durign weekends before to my husband’s terror (he actually does not get close to me nor makes eye contact, I find that painful). 

i would like to do more or spend more time with friends but I don’t have very many friends that are easily available (most are mums or have extremely busy carriers). I need to start meeting new people but it is tough, the circle I am in are all family people and I really don’t need to be reminded that I failed in that most important aspect of my life. I agree with you Bee on this, it hurts me to my core to lose this, particularly as I was not ready yet to give up yet when he decided it was over 

My family live in another country and I would like my mom to come over help me with some practicalities, school drop off/pick ups while I step up at work but not if he is still around. Would not want to put her through this tension...

Oh, dear I hate weekends now, we used to spend all the time together and do things together and that’s all gone. He, on the other hand, will probably be going out and enjoying the ‘bachelor’ lifestyle...


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## behappy123

Newlife2013, 

I am going through pretty much the exact same thing you currently are so I know how difficult it is. I too have been doing the 180 and have been following it as closely as I possibly can and it has actually been working really well for me. 

I too have abandonment issues and the fear of not knowing whether he is staying or going. 

I would say the only different between my story and yours is my husband is still acting like he loves me and says he loves me but tells me how unhappy he is. He still sleeps in the bed with me and tells me he loves me several times a day along with kisses (very weird for someone who is very unhappy)

Things got really bad for us about 3 weeks ago and he said that he wanted to leave. I did the ultimate no-no and pleaded for him to stay and told him about all the good times which only made it worse. After that conversation, he stayed but I felt worthless. 

I ran across this site and found out about the 180. I also read the book "Divorce Busting" that goes into greater detail about the 180 as well as other techniques. 

A couple days later, he threatened to leave again and instead of begging and pleading, I said "I love you and I want to be with you but I can't make you be here. If you don't want to be with me, than you should find somewhere else to go". He hasn’t left yet. Not saying that its permanent, but I was able to keep my dignity. 

I implemented all of the ones I could and it has not only helped my marriage but it has really helped my self esteem and self worth. I am terrified of losing my husband and I will do anything to save my marriage, but I know that I can't make him feel the same way. The only thing I can do it make myself happy and do what I can to save my marriage. If he throws in the towel, its because he chose to walk away and as hard as it is, I will survive. 

I know that you don't want to me divorced and I know that you want to be with your husband but YOU will survive too. 

The things that worked best for me on the 180 were as follows:

1. When he is around, I act as if I am perfectly happy and nothing is bugging me. When he leaves, its another story but he doesn't see that. 
2. My life revolved around my husband and since this experience, I have been focusing on myself. him and I don't talk about it but I know its throwing him for a loop. 
3. I don't call or text him during the day like I used too and I certainly don't call or ask where he is going at night if he does go somewhere. Because of this, he actually initiates conversations with me and goes out of his way to make sure I’m ok. 
4. I don't ask him what’s wrong anymore and I basically do my same routine everyday minus going out of my way to please him or converse with him. 

Its difficult because you have to constantly think about what you need to do or say but it does get easier, I promise.


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## turnera

NewLife2013 said:


> i would like to do more or spend more time with friends but I don’t have very many friends that are easily available (most are mums or have extremely busy carriers).


If you're all moms, why not just meet together with your kids?



NewLife2013 said:


> the circle I am in are all family people and I really don’t need to be reminded that I failed in that most important aspect of my life.


You failed? That's a hogwash answer. That's a pity party. And that's a bad attitude. Why are YOU the one who failed? Did you cheat? No? Then stop taking on someone ELSE's responsibility.


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## NewLife2013

turnera said:


> If you're all moms, why not just meet together with your kids? .


We do but not on many occasions - I can do weekends mostly and that's when most of them do family things, with their husbandsm, as we used to 



turnera said:


> You failed? That's a hogwash answer. That's a pity party. And that's a bad attitude. Why are YOU the one who failed? Did you cheat? No? Then stop taking on someone ELSE's responsibility.


I know, thank you for reminding me. As far as I know he did not cheat but it was his decision it was over. I do have to take some blame as it takes two... but you are right, zero tolerance for self pity!


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## NewLife2013

Oh, this is going to be tougher than I thought...

Tonight he asked me when he and our son could go on holiday... I guess not a bad thing as a father but we used to do everything together and I don't think I can spend time w/o my son...I know it has to happen but I don't know how I am going to handle that separation...

Now all the 180 seem so irrelevant, this separate holidays thing is just too much


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## turnera

Hon, you were ok before you met him, and you don't need him to breathe (unless you don't start going to therapy and don't get a handle on the pity party). And you never could control what he did or whether he stayed - even when you got married.


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## NewLife2013

Turnera - that's another intersting thing, life before him. 

I was in a long term relationship before my H, the relationship ended 3-4 years before I met my husband (the relationships in between were rebound) but I did not let go of that relationship (by means of staying in touch and seeking attention from him) pretty much until I met my husband and decided he was the one. So my first love was a sort of a crutch for me until I met my husband. ... 

I am going to try to go to a CODA meeting next week - I see I have some co-dependency issues...

I have been thinking a lot about these things lately. Or maybe because I was thinking too much everything about me seems wrong now... 

Btw, *behpapy123* I order the Divorce Busters book - I think it will take a while for me to receive it as I am not based in the US. Thank you for suggesting!


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## turnera

You should also get the book Codependents No More.


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## Bee2012

Newlife, I know what you mean about weekends being awkward. We only recently started doing separate activities and taking turns with the kids. And yes, it does hurt to know I will have to share them with him when we divorce. I get you too about it being hard to let go when you weren't ready or expecting it. It's not easy. But you are worthy of love and of happiness. Remember that. Don't let him rob you of that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NewLife2013

Thank you for your kind words Bee2012.. I have to keep reminding myself that I am 'loveable' and that there are people that care for me.

I have just finished reading a book called 'How to be sick' (not related to this but helpful advice on difficult situations) which says 'the bitterest cold may be setting the stage for something joyful, the future could hold a lot more sunshine'. I am also meant to be compassionate with the source of my stress i.e. my H... Have to think about that one...

I am slowly starting to let friends know and everyone is shocked, to them we were picture perfect couple...

Saturday night and I am finding refuge on TAM in the bedroom... instead of (as in 'good times') joining my husband wathcing TV on the couch... It is painful to be on complete opposite ends of our home, not communicating and we are both here 

The day was maybe even worse...we did our weekly groceris all three of us, had lunch at a restaurant with my H not even making an eye contact with me even once or asking me whether I am ready to order or similar... I prepared dinner and he waites until my son and I are done to go to the table and eat food I prepared w/o saying anything...

He has booked plane tickets for him and our son to go spend a week with his family end Feb, I don't know how I'm going to survive that... I was appart from my son before but we were a family at the time so I could handle anything... I gues this is what life is going to look like and as many other mothers do, I'll have to cope


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## turnera

Have you been to a doctor yet?


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## NewLife2013

I was meant to see my councilor yesterday but she was rushed to a hospital so my appointment was cancelled last minute...
I did call a councelling help line (not the same as your own councillor).
I did see a GP twice and I got some sleeping pills. I don't use them much now as I sleep much better than in the early days (in the first 2-3 weeks did not sleep at all!)
GP said should consider antidepressants, councillor says should not yet... It's been only 8 weeks of this so said normal to feel the way I am feeling. 
I find spending time with friends helps the most but I cannot do that every day (ft job, child etc).

Turnera - is the above what you meant?


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## turnera

IDK. I feel like maybe your GP would have a better handle on whether you can handle the stress or need medicine to be able to cope. You make a lot of 'I don't think I can make it' type statements. Your GP needs to know that.


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## Bee2012

NL,
At the risk of sounding cliche, time really does start healing everything. How is your appetite? Are you eating well? Glad to hear you are resting better. You can make it, you are strong. 
In October and november I felt pretty low. Like a walking zombie just getting up, taking care of the kids and keeping it together for them. I didn't eat much and couldn't sleep. Please stop focusing all your energy and thoughts on him. Think about you. He wants to be friends but doesn't seem very friendly from what you post. 
I am glad you have a place to vent. I vent here too bc my family is sick of hearing it , but they really can offer support when I need help with the kids or just need to be around people who love me. 
Keep letting us know how you are!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NewLife2013

Thank you Bee2012, I am noticing some things are getting better.

For the first few weeks I could not sleep and wanted to vomit just seeing food. I lost tons of weight! (I am 5.7 and size 4/6 so skinny already!), my hear started falling out! I still don't sleep much needed 6-8 hours a night and I don't eat as much as I should but I do feel that I am getting better with dealing with this stress. 

I should change the title of my post! He is really not very friendly, just a very angry guy (towards me only, he's absolutely lovely with our son).* I keep thinking why is he living here? What do you guys think:*a) It is cheaper 
b) to see our son everyday and night (they are close)
c) he's not sure what he's doing (does not have a plan A)
d) he's not sure whether he wants D or not (has not mentioned it yet)?

I think I am getting on everyone's nerves (friends are probably tired of dealing with the same topic for the last 8 weeks...) so you guys will hear from me more often here. Party!

*Another, very important question: has anyone's perfomance at work been impacted by separation/divorce and how do you make it through?* I think my bosses are loosing their patience with me and I just can't concentrate as I used to (my job's fairly demanding intelectually and in senior management). Things that did not use to stress me at work not do cause stress... Makes me think, i used to be able to deal with all sorts of difficult and stressful situations and this thing has completely erased my resiliance!!!


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## turnera

Are you on antidepressants?


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## NewLife2013

HELP!

Ok, so I snooped over his stuff and found out there’s someone else. He wrote to his best friend about an interest in his secretary (she’s 14 years younger than my H), he asked him stuff about her etc... She may not be interested in him anyway but...Now, I know he already told me he wanted to end our relationship/marriage but this really pisses me off! What should I do? As you will see from my previous posts, he has come back home so that we can work things practically around our separation but even w/o finding out about this girl I felt very uncomfortable about us living under the same roof. I said you come back only if you wanted to work on us being a family again. He felt uncomfortable but gave in somewhat. Things have gone worse since.* Should I tell him to leave asap? *I know some of you were suggesting this in the first place. If he does not love me anyway either option is not going to change anything but I am suffering living with the man who I still love and he treats me like a doormat. If he moves out, he may never look back but if that’s what it is...

turnera - i am not on antidepressants, due to see my GP towards the end of the month, he said I should wait as it is normal to be in a shock for some time (it's been only about 4 weeks when I saw the GP and it will be 8 when I see him next)


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## turnera

You calmly walk up to him and say I KNOW you are now pursuing other women and I will NOT have it in my home. If you don't stop, you must move out. Today. 

Respect yourself, ok? He never will, until YOU do. 

If you're not better by the 8-week mark, definitely ask for some temporary ADs. I took some when I couldn't compose myself 5 months after my mom died, for a few months, and it really helped.


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## behappy123

NewLife2013 said:


> Turnera - that's another intersting thing, life before him.
> 
> I was in a long term relationship before my H, the relationship ended 3-4 years before I met my husband (the relationships in between were rebound) but I did not let go of that relationship (by means of staying in touch and seeking attention from him) pretty much until I met my husband and decided he was the one. So my first love was a sort of a crutch for me until I met my husband. ...
> 
> I am going to try to go to a CODA meeting next week - I see I have some co-dependency issues...
> 
> I have been thinking a lot about these things lately. Or maybe because I was thinking too much everything about me seems wrong now...
> 
> Btw, *behpapy123* I order the Divorce Busters book - I think it will take a while for me to receive it as I am not based in the US. Thank you for suggesting!


I am so happy you got the book . I think it will be life changing for you. It was for me anyway. You will have to let me know what you think.


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## behappy123

He is probably staying at the house because he doesn't have anywhere else to go or is confused. Most men will not leave their spouse until they have a game plan or another person to go to. 

If he is interested is someone else, than show him the door. He clearly has no respect for you and it sounds like he has already checked out of this marriage. 

I know how much it hurts to love someone and not want to let them go but it will be better in the long run if he doesn't want to work on it and is cheating on you. You CANNOT make him love you and stay with you if he doesn’t want to. 
He needs to figure out whether he wants to stay in this marriage or not and quick because it is prolonging your recovery. You also need to figure out if you can trust him again and if cheating is a deal-breaker for you.


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## Bee2012

Oh no. So very sorry to hear that. Do you know how long since he has been interested in this person?
The reason I ask if because my h asked me for a divorce in September and I only found out in October that he had been having an EA with someone else. He blames the breakup of the marriage on me and my actions, when he had been carrying on with this woman, sending over 100'texts a day, and phone calls daily. 
For a couple weeks after I discovered it, we tried to reconcile and make it work. However, in the end he decided that I was not worth it. 
What made me mad is that he had me feeling guilty for about a month thinking it was all my fault, when really his heart was elsewhere. 
I am sorry you are going through this. I wouldn't be surprised if he was seeing this person before he asked for the divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NewLife2013

Thanks girls, your posts prove to me that I am not losing my mind...

This young women he seems interested in lives in another country but he is going there in 5 weeks time to visit his family and clearly will go to the small office where she works (his best friend is the business owner). To be honest, not much of an issue for me anymore just want to know whether he is a person of integrity or not. ...I brought it up a couple of nights again and he keeps swearing nothing ever happened with her nor he is planning anything with her and that his integrity is intact. As far as I can see, he has just made a comment on one of her posts on FB since they became FB friends last month but he has expressed interest in her in a message to his BF (in a sexual way)

The fact that I was going for a STD test (just to be sure) hurt him a lot or at least he pretended...sort of how can I not trust him there’s none else or there wasn’t anyone else. I kept repeating that we are not a team anymore and I cannot trust him. He said that was the last drop and we are over – I told him that I understood that it’s been over even before this so what has changed. *Not sure why he is doing that – he told me already it was over and why this ‘ok, now it is really over’ WTF?!?*


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## NewLife2013

So the update... Two evenings ago I worked myself up before going home... I really need to get angry here. Our son was already in bed (I went out and he does not seem to like when I go out, keeps telling me that he would be better off taking care of our son w/o me which is not very fair...he told me I should go out w friends and be happy) 
*I said we could not live under the same roof*, the situation is too tense and it is not good for our son. *He agreed but said he is not moving out until we have some sort of formal agreement.* He does not trust me and I make up lies. I said that may take a long time and he said let’s speed up and he’ll see a lawyer the day after. I said I will do the same. Then he said I could move out ...WTF!
*I wanted him to manage his anger towards me when our son is around.* He behaves very resentful towards me, he blames me, It seems I made him made this decision for us to part .and he's taking it out on me. Does not say hello or goodbye...our son has already been picking up on this and told him he should say hello to me too! 
*Then he had an outpour how poorly I treated him during our marriage*, that he got no support from me, just stress and more pressure as he had not had enough at work. He said that there is nothing in his life that means anything to him now, he has no support network, that he should have not left his family and friends back home (14 years ago, he has no real friends where we live despite many years here) and should have lived a simpler life. He built a decent carrier but now it does not seem to mean anything to anyone and he is just waiting to be let go of his job.... He seemed utterly miserable. *What’s this all about?!? It was his choice! Any thoughts why this self pity even though it is his wish that we part?*
I tried to console him (*is this a no-no?) *that he should have been building his carrier for himself not anyone else. It had to be right for him. I reminded him of the things he likes doing and that he should go back to that. Again, he said does not mean anything to him...that he was wrong in the first place to care for those things. I said do IC, open up to colleagues, it is helping me etc. He just keeps going back how miserable he is... However, he does seem very happy and caring around our son, sometimes even joyful. *His behavious confuses me and it just makes me jump into the hope mode!*


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## Bee2012

NewLife,
It sounds like he is really going to try to shift the blame towards you until the very end. He blames you for giving him stress and pressure, yet what did he do to try to improve the marriage aside from holding resentment against you. 
He sounds immature. Not speaking to you or telling you hello or goodbye. If he cared about his son, he would not want to make the atmosphere tense for the little guy. 
From what you say, it sounds like he is now throwing himself a pity party. Don't buy into it. When my h used to tell me how life gave him the shaft, how bad off he had it, etc. I would tell him "I don't feel that way at all. We have a roof over our heads, beautiful and healthy children, and good health for ourselves." There is always something to be thankful for and tons of peeps who have it worse. He is suffering and now wants you to suffer? Is that it? You don't deserve that. 
Just go about your day happily. I am sorry about this new romantic interest and I know it's hard, but if he keeps insisting that now it's really really over, you should act as such!


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## behappy123

First off, no it integrity is not intact. Just because he hasn't done anything physical with this other woman does not mean that he wouldn't jump on the opportunity if he could. Also, he has feelings for her and has expressed an interest in her sexually. 

Second, He is trying to shift the blame on you and does not want to admit he has been wrong and has contributed to the problem. He is being a bully and trying to make you feel guilty for everything. Do not buy into this. Stay strong and continue doing things that are making you happy and continue on your daily life like whatever he does is not going to bug you.


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## turnera

Oh, just ignore the big baby. He's obviously never been taught to own his own shyte. All he knows is to make it everyone else's fault, that way he can like himself. My H used to be that way - until I stopped enabling him. Now I call him out on it. "It's all my fault? Oh, ok, good to know." See, you just cut him off at the knees, because he SAID that to get you to back off and apologize. "You think I should move out when I'm the mother who cares for our son? That's funny; we'll see what the judge says."

Just ignore him.


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## NewLife2013

He said we should speed things up yet has not done anything - I know he has time to speak to a lawyer. Has he really thought through his decision to break us?! Girls, you are right, he is not owning up to his decisions. I am tired of his pity party. I am going into the attach mode. After all, that's all his given me in the past two months, throwing me some bread crumbs and then kicking me when I lean to pick them up... 
I am thinking to file for a divorce...I had enought...
Interestingly, someone on this forum mentioned this MLC site :
MIDLIFE CRISIS for DUMMIES 
He's playing the exact same script i.e. Monstrification of your Spouse, Emotional Detachment, Mass confusion and Indecision, History Revision, It's all about you...
Even he mentioned at some point he could be in MLC but he's only 38!


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## Bee2012

Thanks for posting that link! Yes, you should consult a lawyer for a consultation. They can be expensive but he can tell you the process and what you are entitled to! We are all in your corner! I am glad that you are finally getting a little angry like he has been towards you and not pandering to his sorry behind.
My h too tried to play the game of "it was all your fault". However, it always takes two. And these issues could have been worked on had he brought them up sooner. Looks like he was holding a lot of resentment. 
But anyway, it's time to move on! New year, new you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

NewLife2013 said:


> He's playing the exact same script i.e. Monstrification of your Spouse, Emotional Detachment, Mass confusion and Indecision, History Revision, It's all about you...


Just so you know, those are also the same script for a CHEATER.


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## NewLife2013

I felt I was getting stronger with all this but tonight is really finishing me off. I can’t stop crying.
My husband does not want to move out until we have some sort of formal separation. So tonight we spoke about finances, property etc. I expected that sooner or later we would be speaking about this but it is really hitting me hard that is real. 
I could not but go back to our relationship. He means it, it is real, he does not love me, not in love with me. How do you know, I asked, just days before we broke apart we were on a date, two months earlier we had a short holiday, just the two of us and it was like in the early days...Says maybe he will regret it, maybe he’ll be much better off, his head knows now that this is the best thing. 
He said that our son will be my son as he will be living with me and that will impact on their relationship and closeness. He kept repeating ‘your son’. I now understand why he spends so much time with him now and why he is extremely affectionate and caring. He’s saying goodbye to him. They were always so close, My heart is breaking for my son. This is so painful, he understand that he is abandoning him, that his son will not have what most kids do...


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## turnera

NewLife, you can breathe without him. You can live without him. You may think you can't, but the truth is, you never had control over whether he was in your life. Every relationship is conditional. Even those with your kids isn't a guarantee. Get your crying done and go get some boxes and start packing up his stuff.


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## stilllookingup

Don't give up until it's absolutely final. Don't ask questions why he feels this way because you'll never understand it. Go take a long walk or go to a coffee shop alone. I know it's the last thing you could do but try to get yourself together and continue doing 180. He will not want to see you crying. Cry somewhere else and try to be content in front of your H.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NewLife2013

No sleep last night...Tears and sobbing... It was obvvious this morning, I did not look good but I tried to sneak out of the house quickly and he saw me just from the distance. Ackwardly, he was more friendly this morning and I had to cut him short. 

Divorce Busting, the book, arrived to my office today and I just looked at it thinking it is too late now... I will try to read and implement but I feel incredibly weak now that I am meant to pull all my strenght together. 

From what he was telling me, this is a 'walk away husband' thing. He was unhappy for a while but kept hoping (he has a strong feminine side which he said why he did not do anything earlier). He said that he felt like being beaten up by me every day and it is wrong for him to stay. He meant verbally by me being in a bad mood or nagging... How have I not realised this!? Well, he has not complained for anything for a while and just agreed with me on anytying since pretty much last year...
He said that he thinks I am passive agressive and that I have taken all sort of stupid things out on him. He has thought about all this well and I don't think there is any doubt in him that he is doing the right thing. Having heard it all now, it would be wrong to try to hold him back. 

I appreciate everyone's thoughts ... I find it so difficult to hold it all in. I am now feeling incredibly sorry for myself and don't see any happiness in my future...


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## turnera

He treats you that way because you LET HIM. You act weak, you respond weak, and you basically just lay down and let him walk all over you. 

Where is your anger? Your indignation? How dare he treat you this way? Kick his sorry ass out of your house and see a lawyer. TODAY.


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## Bee2012

It's okay to hurt and feel bad. It is what makes you human. No one can fault you for that. With that said, don't let him fence sit, don't let him hang around to keep hurting you. Try to go out for a walk, read books (I know you ordered some). I know how it feels. Your heart hurts and the one person who could comfort you is the one who hurt you. Wish I could take you for coffee or a drink!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NewLife2013

It’s been a while since I posted...lots happened or rather has not happened!

I gave up on 180. I want my H back. 180 was making him more distant and he never ever asked me anything or communicated, or even made an eye contact while I was trying to 180 him.

Given that his reason for not wanting to be with me is the lack of emotional and practical support, feeling unloved and feeling disapproved and ‘beaten’ by me...I turned all loving to him. He still does not want us back together but he is at home lot more and we do a lot more together. We eat together, something he insisted he would not do with me anymore. He now even tells me if he is going somewhere after work and who with (this has happened only once in the past month). He does initiate conversations (he hardly made eye contact before and when I was on 180). He is much more pleasant to be around now and we have some laughs together. We may not be together ever again but at least we can communicate ...

Now, he still sleeps on the couch and refuses to enter our bedroom when I am there. He complains that the couch is not comfortable but would not sleep in our marital bed even if I go sleep on the couch. Why?!? It’s just a comfortable bed, does not mean anything. How can he then see me every morning and every evening?

I have started giving him a daily kiss on the lips. At first he would pull away now he responds. But we are still not together he insists.


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## NewLife2013

Now the embarrassing part..I initiated s*x. He was noticeably excited but after few minutes decided we should not as we would both regret it the day after as we should not be in a relationship. He said that was always a great part of our relationship but sometimes he thought I was with him for that reason only. He felt I was trying to manipulate him by initiating... Being rejected felt like an ice cold shower.... He says he mast***ates. He advises me to do the same. He then said he could not do that forever and eventually he’ll do it with a woman... but he refuses to do it with me...  

I keep checking his phone, e-mails, fb, diary (he does not know I have access)...and I don’t see anything suspicious... and he is at home a lot more than he used to be. OW seems to be the usual reason for this sudden desire to break up a marriage. He says I am the problem in our marriage, for few months now he found my behaviour difficult and he stopped trying to argue with me, just agreed on everything to avoid fights. He stopped loving me to prevent being hurt... But he is not in a hurry to formally separate or leave our home...Part of the reason is our son and the other part is that he cares for our ‘ongoing relationship’ as parents. 

*All in all, I don’t feel I can give up but at the same time I don’t know what else I can do?!? *I think I need to be patient but him mentioning other women makes me panic. I don’t want him in the arms of another woman, the thought makes me sick...


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## Greg1515

Just read 5 pages of your post. 

First of all I am sorry you are going through this. As most of us in this forum, I've gone through a similar situation. In fact I made a post about it a couple of months ago and update it yesterday.

A few helpful things to consider to help YOU out personally is:

a) Watch your vocabulary. The words you use to describe your situation on this forum, in your mind, with your friends.

"I don’t see myself surviving w/o my marriage"
"I know it is the tension in our home that is killing me!"
"this thing has completely erased my resiliance!!!"

You are an independent individual who can live, breathe, act, and survive on your own.

You CAN survive without your marriage. You weren't born with it. Instead tell yourself :
"I care to save my marriage, I would be unfortunate if I lost it".
"The Tension in my home between us is annoying me"
"my marital issues have me somewhat distracted".

I realize it seems like a small insignificant step, but by YOU describing this situation in a less "dramatic" light, you will help yourself cope wit this better.

I don't fault you for it. Truth be told I haven't analyzed my post. I probably did the same, but I've been trying to cope with my situation and I realize nobody is going to do anything about it BUT me.

You have to rediscover what makes you happy on your own. What made you happy as a single person. A hobby, activity, lifestyle... You cannot base your happiness on being with another person. It's unfair to you and places a huge amount of stress on your partner. Simply ask yourself, don't you think anyone would be more desirable to their partner if they were independently happy, instead of the spouse having to try and be the catalyst for good times?

In regards to your relationship with him, everyone's experience is different. We all have similarities but only you know the truth behind the details that encompass what lead to this situation. Details you can't describe in a few pages. 

That being said I will share with you something that might prove helpful. My wife (haven't finalized paperwork yet, so I'll still refer to her as such), did not love me. She was 10 years younger than me and immature. Yet I was bent on believing that her desire to be with an ex-bf of hers was merely an obsession. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. The only certainty was (and I found this out later on), that the only obsessed one here was me. 

It is possible for people to fall out of love, but in my case, she was never in love with me to begin with. After 3.5 years, she had believed that just by staying with me she was doing her part to save our marriage. She was always depressed, never cooked, cleaned, worked, etc. 

Fact is, in her mind she was living a nightmare because she realized too late that she didn't want to be with me, but I turned out to be such a "nice guy" to her (her words) that she couldn't bring herself to mercifully end it, so she tried to hurt me so that I would lash out at her and end it myself.

I obviously didn't do that, so what happened was I not only ended up losing her, but got humiliated in the process.

So ask yourself, Do you want to keep this man at all costs at the expense of HIS happiness? Can you be the person he wants you to be in order to be happy? Can you be someone else just to be with him and still be happy with yourself?

I'm not suggesting the relationship needs to end, but it's not allowing you to grow as a person anymore.

You have to take control of your life. Don't make it about him. You need to be the star of the story of your life again, and everything around you will be better. 

Cheers.


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## turnera

Have you read His Needs Her Needs?


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## NewLife2013

Thanks Greg for your wise words. I thing you are spot on:
•	I was too reliant on him for my happiness, and
•	I struggle with the idea to put myself in the centre of my world.
Those are the issue I know I have to deal with but I think I first need to see whether I can save my marriage and if not, get to grips with it. 
I do understand that I overdramatize everything – one of my H’s main complaints about me...I make every little think too big of a deal...and my language does not help here! Thank you Greg for your suggestions as to how to, through my language, reduce my stress. 

I seem to have so many issues to address that it is scary! I think this is part of the problem. I guess I will now never be confident to go out and find another mate, I feel worthless...

Turnera – I looked into His needs, her needs. I think my H’s top needs are Domestic support - where his main complaints are, I made his life more stressful that it needed be and did not support him in that regard. Something I admit to and constantly say I am happy to work on. I think I am doing it now, taking all the household pressure of him and creating a warm atmosehere when he comes back home. He says it is too late, he cannot bear to be put himself back into our relationship and he does not want to waste my time. The other two would be Admiration (something I failed at too and whenever I attempt at it now he says it is not genuine now) and Se* (which supposedly was always great). 

I wish I knew all these things before


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## turnera

Are you seeing a therapist regularly? Sounds like you need one.


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## NewLife2013

Turnera - I was seeing a terapist but she is off work now for a while. I started with a new one but she is just not very good. I felt it was a waste of time. Not sure whether to go to the next one. WHere I live, you dont' get much choice, you are assigned based on provider's choice.


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## NewLife2013

Thinking about Her Needs, His Needs...I don't think my H has met my needs even when things were good... He was never very affectionate and talk about communication! We've been spending a lot of time together recently at home, on the couch, watching TV, talking life, eating... I realised that, apart from not being intimate, things are not much different when we were together. He is just not very loving and sharing... How did I not see that during more than a decade with him?!? How do I still feel strong bond and what seems like passionate love towards him despite all he is putting me through now?!


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## turnera

Uh, that's what we've been trying to tell you. 

Why do you NEED someone who frankly couldn't give a damn if YOUR needs are met? Are you that worthless? I'll bet your parents wouldn't think so.

The only reason you feel a 'bond' with him is that he treats you like sh*t so you feel you deserve sh*t. That's why therapy is so very vital. That's why you can't understand that you CAN survive without him. 

The thing is, WE TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO TREAT US.

If you LET him disrespect you, if you ACCEPT being treated like a maid, a hooker, and a mother, then that's what you will get.


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## Bee2012

Hi, NL! I missed you. Glad you are back on. Ultimately, this is your marriage and you decide what feels right for you to do. It seems like you want to do everything in your power to show your h that you are willing and ready to make the changes needed to make the marriage work. Do what you need to do to get closure or revive the marriage, but just remember it takes two. I wish you all the best! Keep posting!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stilllookingup

NewLife2013 said:


> Thinking about Her Needs, His Needs...I don't think my H has met my needs even when things were good...


I don't understand. You said in your early post he was nearly perfect. 

Also I agree with Greg 100%. You won't be able to focus on yourself until you snap out of that weak phase. I was just like how you are right now in my early stage until I was told by somebody "watch your language" basically when I said this was killing me. No, it was not killing me because I was still able to breathe. I realized then the way I was describing my feelings out loud was bringing me down even more.


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## NewLife2013

Stilllookingup – he’s not perfect by any means... but in many ways he was more stable and mature than me in the past. He did try hard in the past 2 years to be the man he thought I wanted him to be. I complained a lot about chores around our home and taking care of our son which I was overwhelmed with. He was helping more and more and I still found things to complain about...Dishes that he would leave overnight in the sink would became a reason for me to snap at him...Now, he is really not very affectionate and I knew that from the start. He’s very practical and self sufficient. I guess most men are.


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## NewLife2013

He kept talking about wanting an expensive boat (something he or we jointly definitely cannot afford). I see he spends a lot of time on researching about it. He can’t even swim and is not comfortable in water so it seems odd! He even mentioned that when our property is sold (that implies us separating) he could use his share to fund this boat...but this is completely unrealistic, he would still need a massive loan! Then he goes on how he should stop fantasising about this...
*Is this a sign of MLC?!? *


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## NewLife2013

We’ve been spending a lot of time together over the weekend. He seems comfortable at home. I made a nice Sunday lunch yesterday, he we had some wine and talked about all sorts of things. Then we went out to town and had a nice afternoon tea and cake in a beautiful place. I do my best to look good and dress up...

I have been very affectionate towards him in the past 2-3 weeks, he does not respond but (most of the time) does not reject me either. Then he did aproach me once last night and started being s**ual. He stopped and than put his hands over his face and said he should’ve not. That he would get equaly excited about any women going around semi naked. He is a man and he can separate love and s**. WTF! At the same time, he said we cannot jump that far w/o other aspects of our relationship working. He said he does not know whether to have a new start with someone else or whether to have a new start with me. He does not know whether he loves me. He does not know how to figure that out. He said maybe he should try w someone else to see what he feels... This sound horrible but I have to admit that I mentioned that once in the early bargaining stage... My mind kept spinning as he was talking. How can you not know whether you love someone?!? I am still in shock as to how we got here from a very commited relationship. 

I wake up way too early every morning and am all confused. I feel like I am in a movie, something like Truman Show! He is clearly confused himself and if there was someone else he would have spend time with her rather than with me?! Is he just using me as a comfort cusion before he finds someone else?!? At the same time, I love spending time together and for me it all sometimes feels like before (apart from no physical relationship and no long term plans for us, we just don’t speak that). I have plans and I do things for myself as well but I somehow just can’t wait to get home and be with him ..

Everything he was telling me was not working for him in our marriage is workeable. He knows I am willing to work on that and I am sure he notices some practical changes I have been making. Some will need more time and his involvement too, but it is doable! I feel that it is only an excuse sometimes...


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## turnera

You have to understand that he has to work through his feelings. At his own pace. YOUR job right now is to become the person you know he wants. If he likes long hair, grow your hair out. If he likes it short, cut it. If he likes dresses, wear dresses. I'm not telling you to be who you aren't, but rather to KNOW what makes your man happy, and make choices that have him in mind. Unless you really really hate those choices. Like I'm over 50, so I doubt I'd grow my hair out to my butt any more, kwim?

Be consistent, be a GOOD place to come home to. If you have an issue with him, be mature about it and see his side, and appeal to that side of him to help him understand your point of view. Avoid arguments. Learn his ENs and your LBs and work on them. If you do this long enough, and consistently enough, you can show him that you have learned, and grown, and changed, and that you're doing it because you want him back. THAT is what he needs to see. And remember to judge in months, not weeks, and certainly not days.


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## stilllookingup

I agree with turnera. I know it feels like to you that it's been a long time since you started changing but to him it probably feels like you have charged for few days. He does not believe the changes you are making is just temporary. Any D busting veteran would say it’d take 3 months or even longer for WAS to start believing LBS has permanently changed.

Right now you have to focus not to backslide from being loving and affectionate. Do not nag him, do not get upset about anything he does. As far as looks goes, act and look like his girlfriend. I haven’t changed from the time I met him or from the time we were married. While it could be a good thing that I haven’t gained weight or I don’t dress in baggy clothes etc, but just like how our romance went down the way I took care of myself went stale I guess I can say. I always wore jeans and just changed tops, I only wore dressed in warm weather and on special occasions because it was either cold to wear dresses or I didn’t want to shave. No wonder our romance faded and there I was blaming him for not being romantic. How could he be romantic when his wife didn’t show much skin to him and when she did she was untrimmed and grown-out toe nails without any pedicure.

Now the way I take care of myself is completely 180:

My legs are smooth all the time

My legs are moisturized

My nails are painted pretty 

Growing my hair even longer than before and letting it down when I’m at home. (I used to put it up like a tired wife) 

I wear cute colored shorts instead of pajama pants at home even if I’m cold. 

I sit on the couch/chair like a lady 

I never fart in front of him (I was too comfortable before.. don’t judge me!)

I never trim any hair in front of him (again I was too comfortable.. don’t judge me!)

My immediate goal is to wear shorter skirts without tights! I’ve started squatting every day to tone my legs. I’ve always had a complex with my legs that I stopped wearing skirts unless I wore tights.


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## NewLife2013

Thank you for your advice girls! I wish some men would contribute from their perspective! 

I've been doing most of the things you mention. I am showing bare skin most of the time even if it is cold! I wear tight and se*y clothes and put make up on every day.. Talk about high heels! Now I know he is excited se**ally about me (it is visible but he resists), and I am fairly toned and good looking but he says he would get excited for just about any other woman and that's what's worrying me... 
I know I need to be persistent and patient - I can - I only see this threat of him going away for a week to his hometown. He is extremely good looking (look up David Gandhy if youwant to know how good looking!) and he is from a small town where girls and women alike would be all over him! So, I am very anxious...

I will keep the course and not get into any fights or arguments...I am not nagging...I lught at his jokes even though they may be quite off key...

I see some improvements - he tells me what he is up to and here and there I call him at work and he answers even if he is in a meeting. I do tell him that I just wanted to say hello but he is patient and chats with me.

As I said I see a lot of good stuff. I so want him to love me again like he used to. We were so mad about eachother, sure this is common to all of our stories...


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## turnera

NewLife2013 said:


> he says he would get excited for just about any other woman and that's what's worrying me...


meh, that's just him trying to convince himself, because his desire for you is strong.

Now, I will add that you should NOT just become his slave now. DO stand up for yourself when you need to. Don't stop doing things you need or want to do, unless they are selfish and harm him. Don't agree to things just because he wants something. He wants a real woman, not a doll. He would see that as an act, and rightfully so.


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## stilllookingup

Wow I call that HOT. But then it's even easier then to figure out what attracted him in the first place no? He's that good looking and he can get any hot girl he wants - and yet he choose you. I'm sure you are hot too but there are other hot girls out there like he says. So what do you think separated you from the other hot girls? What did he love about you that he wanted to marry you in the first place?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stilllookingup

By the way looks isn't everything as you know. He may be hot and can get any hot girl he wants but it doesn't mean he can get a happy marriage with any hot girl like you guys have had for a long time. You are willing to fight and save this marriage even though this limbo land is really hard. Would any hot girl he can sleep with tomorrow be willing to do that?

That's why you have to work on yourself, be the hot caring wife only a fool would leave!  But turnera is right ... you have to think what makes you happy too.


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## turnera

Being on the 'other' side of the time wheel, here to tell you that looks are NOT even close to the most important aspect for a good marriage. In fact, it often makes one choose the completely wrong person. Just watch Millionaire Matchmaker.


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## NewLife2013

I know looks are not everything... but he does get hit on a lot. I am sure he never acted on it before. In the past, he would never even notice a good looking woman passing by. I think now he does which tells me there is a serious issue with our bond...

He chose to marry me 10 years ago because who I was, I could deal with just about anything. I am definitely not that carefree person any more. What happened? Life kicked in... Carrier ups and downs, a child, postpartum issues, household on my shoulders, family problems and illnesses... I am not a super woman but I am not that bad at managing it all either. I need to work harder at my resilience and positive attitude. 

I can see where his idea of ‘trying with someone else’ comes from. It will not be real life, but a fantasy, a trap. No bills, kids... I sometimes think he is tired of life rather than tired of me and our little family. I can’t help him there. Or can I?

I have to make our home pleasant and stress free for him, for us. I have to be my best self and show him that I can manage it all with a smile. Tricky given that we are officially not together but separated in our home...yeah limbo land sucks...but I guess this is the real love test!

He arrived home late last night (he told me he would, he has a deadline this Fri) and I just could not wait for him to get through the door. We did have nice chats and for the first time in a while he enquired about my day, work, what I was up to while waiting for him (could not say was on TAM!). I could not stop hugging him and telling him how much I miss us and said I loved him. He made a funny noise and said ‘yeah, whatever’. This is so easy for him and soooo hard for me! Have to remember, small steps, day at a time...


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## turnera

I'd back off just a little. You seem a bit frantic, and that's not attractive. Think Catwoman or something.


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## Greg1515

I think you are letting your emotions get the best of you. You saw a small sign of change and you are back in "the hole".

Remember you have to do ALL of this for yourself.

The shaving, the being sultry, the showing skin. Look at yourself in the mirror and DO this, but for YOURSELF. Not for HIM.

You HAVE to lose him in your mind. You got to prepare for the fact that he is GONE. Once you lose the FEAR of losing him, then , ONLY then will you be able to be desirable to him again.

It's a 50/50 thing. I know you want to keep him, but honestly it's not up to you. You lost that power, and that has you at a disadvantage. What you need to do is realize you have LOST him, that you can be happy without him, that you can once again be that carefree person, and maybe then he will appreciate you. 

This is really hard to do because he is IN your life right now, so it's impossible to cut him loose in your mind. I had that same problem with my wife when I allowed her to stay with me until she finished her semester. I was so upset and angry at what she was doing, but as long as she was there, I couldn't begin the breakup/healing process.

If it's any consolation, it had been 3 weeks since I had talked to my wife after everything was over. She called me 2 days ago asking for forgiveness because she couldn't bear the guilt she was feeling anymore, it was overwhelming her. I told her she deserved to feel the way she was feeling, but I owed it to myself to forgive her. I told her I still loved her, and that I probably always will, but that I could not let her hurt me again nor bring myself to trust her anymore. Her word means nothing to me, and my health and sanity have taken priority over my feelings for her.

She's called me a dozen times since then until I simply decided to stop answering. I found my passion for life. I am happy by myself and now she wants me back in her life because she started appreciating what she had with me, and realized I can be happy without her, which was a severe blow to her ego.

So I hope you can see what I'm trying to tell you. Love yourself first, treat yourself to nice things. And I'm not saying be mean to him, or rude, or cold. Simply live your life for yourself first. If he leaves you, but sees you are a happy woman afterwards, trust me, he will come back.


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## NewLife2013

Greg1515 – i am very glad to hear that you are in such a good place now. It is not ideal, things could have been different with your W, and everything could have been just right from the beginning to now. Nevertheless, I am glad to see that you are happy no matter the circumstances. It is also very consoling that you have kept your dignity and decency through the whole thing. Wish more men were that mature like you!

I see where you are coming from Greg1515. I should put myself first and carry on as if it is all over. I need to be more 180. However, when I was 180ing him, he seemed to drift further away, stay away from home or do his own thing. Since I’ve started paying more attention to him, he’s paying more attention to me. Still not in an intimate way but overall considers me more.


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## NewLife2013

We speak more about everyday stuff, he asks me about my day etc (he did not even bother to make eye contact until few weeks ago). We started calling each other during the day. He helps around the house or offers to help when he sees me working in the kitchen (never done that in ‘good times’). However, he still does not hug me back when I do or just puts his lips out when I kiss him. He avoids physical contact. There is no affectionate initiative on his part...

So... I am holding back a bit. That hurts as if I don’t initiate there is no couple like interaction between us. I get it, he does not want to be a couple with me and I cannot fix us w/o him. He needs to put some effort too. I am worried that if I don’t keep reaching out to him we’ll just drift further apart.

He has been my best friend and centre of my life in the past 14 years (we live in a foreign country) and I cannot help but want to reach out to him when I feel sad and lonely. I need to hold back when I am down and reach out to him when I am up only... 

I am glad you guys are here for me!


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## turnera

He doesn't WANT couple-like interaction right now. He has to start seeing you in a better light first. The MLC you were talking about, I think it's more of 'I only get one life, and this is the path I put myself on and spent 14 years on; is this all I get? What if there's more out there? Our baggage makes me hurt when I'm with her - am I stuck with that forever?' So your job is to show him that he CAN be happy with you, that you HAVE learned a ton lately on how to fix your side, and that time spent with you is rewarding. Once he starts feeling like it's not a mistake, that there ISN'T something better out there, he'll warm up again.


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## NewLife2013

We had a nice weekend. Of course, I would have not called this a ‘nice’ weekend few months ago ... H had to work pretty much all weekend (on comp at home) but I was happy and cheerful. H picked that up and questioned it!

Few months ago, I would have been pretty pissed about the fact that he was working over the weekend and we could not do something fun. This time around, I tried my best to be understanding. I ran errands, prepared nice meals for the three of us (really nice, he would have like 3 plates), kept our son happy and entertained him on my own. We still managed to go for lunch all together on Saturday and buy weekly groceries. I told H how much I appreciated him coming along to help with the shopping even though I said could do it on my own. 
I kept hugging and kissing him on the lips (now he mostly kisses back) whenever he took breaks or after him helping clean up after lunch/dinner. I said I liked him offering to help, made me feel appreciated. At one point, as he hugged me back, he put his hands on my a*s. I could not stop giggling... That felt good. The downside is no s** and he still sleeps on the sofa... I am not going to initiate either one of those but it sucks!

Then at some point, H said he was not persuaded that I am ok with him working all weekend. He said it would have been different few months ago. Then I said that I would not be happy if that was the case for every weekend but that I was happy about him being around, lovely meals together and him helping when he could, about kisses etc. 

At one point, he said something about us moving away from the city we live in to a smaller city (we live in a very stressful environment, long commute). Then you remember that boat he was mentioning...he started showing me pictures of a more affordable boat, asking what interiors I preferred and now talks about ‘when we have a boat’. The boat is still unrealistic but it is nice to be included in his fantasies. He also said he had a dream about this boat and I was there too (something trivial). Said then how I have not been in his dreams for a long time but then said that was good because recently he only had nightmares... 

So, a lot of good stuff here. I will keep my course and be nice, considerate and loving to him. I can live on very little attention from him right now. At the same time, I am scared there might be a nasty surprise somewhere...Also, I don’t think I could hear that ‘I don’t love you’ once more! In a way, I feel loved by him atm and I just have to do my best not to scare him away!


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## Bee2012

That kind of news makes me feel very happy! Keep up the good work. I like that you aren't bringing up the marriage to him, but you are definitely showing him you love him and that you are so worth it. 
It's encouraging that he uses the word "we", albeit he still wants to get that boat. 
Again, I am so happy for you. It's nice to hear stories about when things go well.


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## turnera

Good job. When men come here with unhappy wives, we often tell them to put sex on a back burner and just assume you won't have it for 3 to 6 months. That way, the tension is gone, and the spouse will pick up on that.


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## stilllookingup

You call that a nice weekend..? I’d call that a great weekend! 

It’s so funny how trivial progress like that makes us go over the moon! Mine too now comes help me in the kitchen since I stopped asking for help. All these years all I wanted from him was to “offer” help. I would get annoyed when I had to ask for help because I felt I didn’t have to ask. We both work full-time and I had such resentment when I saw him resting on the couch when I already started cooking. Now I don’t even have to ask for help. If he notices the dinner I’m preparing involves a lot of prep he asks me which prep he should do. It just creates such a stress-free environment it’s so easy for me to be kind. 

You know what I particularly liked was that you told him you were ok with him working on the weekends but not all weekends. 
You let him know that you understand he has to work sometimes but you also subtly let him know what your needs were..

Keep it up and I’ll say this millions of times if I have to but do not backslide! 

P.S. I don’t remember if I commented here about 180 but I’m glad you stopped keeping a distance from him because you noticed he was pulling away more. It said somewhere in the book to stop what’s not working, and I think it’s really important that not everybody follows 180 to the T. I too felt my H was pulling away even more when I tried to be mysterious about where I went etc.


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## turnera

stilllookingup said:


> It’s so funny how trivial progress like that makes us go over the moon! Mine too now comes help me in the kitchen since I stopped asking for help. All these years all I wanted from him was to “offer” help.


"I don't want you to wash the dishes. I want you to WANT to wash the dishes."


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## stilllookingup

Exactly! hahahaha

Oh I remember he used to tell me "if you need help just ask!" Then I'd get even more mad!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NewLife2013

Proves us and them speak different languages!! 
Thank you girls for making my evening


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## NewLife2013

stilllookingup said:


> Mine too now comes help me in the kitchen since I stopped asking for help. All these years all I wanted from him was to “offer” help. I would get annoyed when I had to ask for help because I felt I didn’t have to ask. We both work full-time and I had such resentment when I saw him resting on the couch when I already started cooking. Now I don’t even have to ask for help. If he notices the dinner I’m preparing involves a lot of prep he asks me which prep he should do. It just creates such a stress-free environment it’s so easy for me to be kind. .


If only men could understand this we would all have a whole lotta love (and se*)!!



stilllookingup said:


> I don’t remember if I commented here about 180 but I’m glad you stopped keeping a distance from him because you noticed he was pulling away more. It said somewhere in the book to stop what’s not working, and I think it’s really important that not everybody follows 180 to the T. I too felt my H was pulling away even more when I tried to be mysterious about where I went etc.


Yep, 180 and mysterious was definitely not working on my H! LIke you, I felt that was pushing him further away. I also feel that GAL/get a life/ is not working on him either. It seems that only spending time together and being caring towards him works. Everytime we spend time apart, be it work or if one of us is doing other stuff, it seems to take some time to reconnect. 

I am not taking any chances to lose momentum here!

However, the most important bit of 180 which I sware by is not to argue and to listen, listen, listen. FOcus on him rather than me. I don't lose my cool but am also not overly enthusiastic. I am taking care of myself as far as food, excersise and small pleasures go. And of course, patience, patience, PATIENCE!


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## turnera

Have you guys done the Emotional Needs questionnaire?


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## stilllookingup

oh what's that?


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## turnera

At marriagebuilders.com (avoid their toxic forums - they are literally corrupt!), you can print out the Emotional Needs and the Love Buster questionnaires. Essential for every marriage, really. The LB one tells you (when your spouse fills it out) what YOU do that upsets them. So you can stop doing it. Consider your spouse's 'love bucket' - every time you LB them, the LB pokes a hole in that bucket (makes them unhappy with you). Now, every time you try to meet one of their top ENs, you fill up that bucket just a little (they're happy with you, in love). But once that love hits where the hole from the LB is, it just flows right out of the bucket and they're left NOT happy again. If you LB your spouse a lot, you'll have so many holes in that ol' bucket that no matter HOW many ways you try to love them, meet their ENs, it won't matter - they'll be too resentful and unhappy that they'll eventually just fall out of love with you. Empty bucket.

Could be a huge LB, like my H running up $80,000 in debt and not taking care of it. Could be tiny, like him leaving his dirty disgusting Q-tips all over the house that he expects ME to clean up.

ENs could be anything from conversation to financial security to sex. By filling out the questionnaires, you learn a lot about each other and learn how to NOT LB them and how to meet their key ENs (so no one else gets to do it and start an affair). If you never learn these things, you can be flailing around in the wind, trying to make each other happy, and ending up divorced.


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## NewLife2013

Thanks turnera for more details on LB and EN. I have looked at these some time ago and I am now fulfilling his ENs very well and avoiding LBs. I also don’t think I am compromising on anything that I would not tolerate in the long run.

I also went through a lot of the messages on the DB board and have to say that TAM is waaaaay better


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## NewLife2013

Had a bit of a setback last night – he was away for work and did not call. I waited until my son was asleep and called him. Did not ask why he did not call (that would be nagging right) but just started chatting. He was grumpy ... I know he is having a difficult week, that’s why he was away overnight, I know it’s stress galore etc but whilst he was talkative he was not in a very good mood. I know he spends 12 hours a day talking and arguing with people so needs time alone but it somehow affected me... 

Then this morning, on my way to work, I had a stupid accident. Can’t even tell what happened. Something like I was on the pedestrian crossing with a bunch of people, there was a cyclist and the next thing I know i hit my head, my glasses break, there’s blood everywhere and I feel dizzy... Not really a big thing, my eyelid was cut, I’m swollen and bruised but suppose that area is very sensitive. Went to the hospital and they closed the cut and the bleeding stopped. Need to relax. I know I am not going to be any pretty any time soon!

So, I did not get in touch with my H right away even though I really wanted his attention then and there. Then when I got home I broke down sobbing and after I was done with all that I sent him a text. Had an accident, nothing major, glad you’ll be back home tonight. He called right away and was caring. Let’s see how he is tonight... Just though to share.


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## turnera

You're your own worst enemy at this point. Stop and check yourself before any interactions with him...will this show I'm confident, loving, yet not needy?


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## stilllookingup

Oh fun! I'll do the questionnaires. Not sure if I can have my H do LB one now though as he's moving out soon 

NewLife, glad you didn't ask him why he didn't call. THAT would have been a HUGE backslide for sure. We, girls tend to want to connect even when we are working but most guys really get into work when they are at work. I know I complained to my H at one point I didn't like when he would not reply back my txts.

Is that normal for him to stay late in the office when his work is busy? If so, I’d just send a short text or give him a really short call. 
And I agree with turnera. We have to catch ourselves all the time. 
Hopefully the scar on your eyelid will heal soon!


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## turnera

Right. For now, you have to act like you are separated. Honor his wishes. Continue to flirt with him and show him an amazing Plan A, but DO NOT EXPECT him to meet any of your ENs. That will come in time.


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## NewLife2013

turnera said:


> You're your own worst enemy at this point. Stop and check yourself before any interactions with him...will this show I'm confident, loving, yet not needy?


This is so true! I've been so needy since the weekend ended. I so want his attention, I want my needs fulfilled!

He's been actually quite nice and carring but more as a human being rather than a lover. I want so much more and not sure how much longer I can hang in  

Want to scream... I want my H back, 100% not bits and pieces!!!!


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## NewLife2013

stilllookingup said:


> Oh fun! I'll do the questionnaires. Not sure if I can have my H do LB one now though as he's moving out soon


Oh  We have to figure these things out w/o theri cooperation. It does feel very lonely to be the only one fighting...



stilllookingup said:


> NewLife, glad you didn't ask him why he didn't call. THAT would have been a HUGE backslide for sure. We, girls tend to want to connect even when we are working but most guys really get into work when they are at work. I know I complained to my H at one point I didn't like when he would not reply back my txts.
> 
> Is that normal for him to stay late in the office when his work is busy? If so, I’d just send a short text or give him a really short call.
> !


He does stay away overnight here and there. Once a week or so. Always did. And I suppose he wants some time alone. He is an introvert. 

The thing is, he's staying overnight tmrw as well (Valentine's). He's project finishes the day after. I am not sure whether to write him a card and insert it into his work bag tonight for him to open tmrw?! I bought him a little chocholate. I will surely call him tomorrow night, not to start big topics but just to maintain the momentum. 

My biggest worry is his trip, him and my son leave this weekend for a week. I am terrified what happens when he's back. I know this will be his thinking and contemplating time, sort of should I stay or should I go...

Next 10 days will I think be decisive for us. I pray and hope he will chose us


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## turnera

Stick the card and chocolate in his bag. Nothing else. 

Keep doing your Plan A until he leaves, that leaves him with good feelings about you, so while he's away, he'll remember that you were loving, but not needy, you were respecting his wishes yet still showing you care about him, looked great, smelled great, honoring what he wants (big one), and not giving up. 

And even if he decides to leave, it's still not over. I've seen people live apart for years and then decide to get back together.


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## NewLife2013

I am my own worst enemy. Now it is really over...
Everything seemed to have been going well end then boom, all gone...

I mentioned our talk over the weekend of moving to a smaller town etc. He said he never meant it, that I was crazy to think we could go from position '0' (not together)to planning our future together. That really hurt. I said how things were going well recently. He said it was all fake...He said how wrong it would be to even acknowledge it is V day tomorrow. I was sobbing in front of him...and then continued throughout the day.

I insisted we revisit the talk in the evening. He said no. I insisted. I focused on the positives. He said he shold have not come home this week at all, should have stayed at work if he had known I would start all this drama and his wish not to talk could not be respected. He does not want drama but I don't see how not talking about things is a good thing. I asked him whether he wanted D and said I would take the steps so he does not feel like the bad guy. I asked him many times.

He then said he just wanted to sleep and I was ruining his night, the next day etc, he just wanted me gone. I just could not leave. I kept crying and talking about him not even once thinking how this all affected me, that it was all about him, all under his conditions, that he has been justifying inflicting pain on me by bringing up our past that he is responsible for too, I asked over and over whether he wanted D, wanted the answer there and then or tomorrow, said he wanted me to disappear...all sorts of things that I cannot take back and I know now it is really over. I know I looked like a mad, mentally ill , woman and I really feel in great distress now.

I am not even sure how to interact with him next if there is next time. This is the lowest I have ever felt in my life, there were moments when I felt the best thing would be for me to just disappear from this life...


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## NewLife2013

This is going to be one long night.. 
I am completely out of it ;(

I guess the chances of us not making it were always high but I don't think I can live with me making all this mess. Now he has every reason to think I am a crazy and unstable, which is how i behaved tonight. That is the worst feeling ever


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## stilllookingup

Oh no Newlife… How did this happen? Take a deep breath and rest today. You need to rest, calm down and get yourself together. 
Don’t even say or think you want to disappear from this life. 
Why did you ask him about D over and over again when he was clearly telling you to stop talking about it “for now” You were voluntarily giving him the reason to say harsh things. 
Why were you so emotional that you couldn’t just leave him alone?


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## turnera

NewLife2013 said:


> I know I looked like a mad, mentally ill , woman


Yeah, pretty much.


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## NewLife2013

stilllookingup said:


> Oh no Newlife… How did this happen? Take a deep breath and rest today. You need to rest, calm down and get yourself together.
> Don’t even say or think you want to disappear from this life.
> Why did you ask him about D over and over again when he was clearly telling you to stop talking about it “for now” You were voluntarily giving him the reason to say harsh things.
> Why were you so emotional that you couldn’t just leave him alone?


He told me it was all very fake what we have atm, and that it is a serious thing that we don't sleep in the same bed, do separate holidays. He said I chose not to see all that and believe in something that was not there. This hurt like hell. Do i really see thing that are not there, good and bad?!? I started questioning my sanity

I have a history of doing this. This is the biggest problem my H has with 
I am starting to think that there is something seriously wrong with me. Things start to look better (or so I chose to believe) and I start looking for a reason to sabotage. I don't have any explanation as to why it all happened apart from me being a complete mess. I have a history of doing this. This is the biggest problem my H has with me. Rollercoaster drama. That's who I am. At the same time, he did not even look at me as I was crying and being misserable. How is that possible?! This hurts so much that I feel he is pushing me to do worst and worst things to get his attention. I am tryly misserable and wish I could just press the button and be gone forever..


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## workingatit

> I have a history of doing this. This is the biggest problem my H has with
> I am starting to think that there is something seriously wrong with me.


I am sorry about the troubles the last day or two...have you been to counseling for what you are saying you have a history of doing? 

I have to say since I have started counseling and have found a better understanding to my "emotional" triggers it has been so much easier.

I am sepaarated- about 3.5weeks now....anytime we spoke I became an emotional mess....sunday he tried to initiate a brief talk and not ONE emotional break from me....I think he was in shock.....we have a long way to go...and I have a lot more counseling to get through...

But it sounds like counseling will really help you get a grip on your outbursts.....

A bonus for me.....is the strength I am gaining in knowing that we really may just D. I of course do not want that.....but if that is ultimately what he wants....I know I will be OK.....

Please use this time to better YOU. 

Your husband will NEVER come back if you continue down this path....men do not want to deal with this stuff....you know that....and even if you move on to a new relationship in the future...this is something you will want to "fix" so it is not something that happens again....

THINK OF YOU RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!


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## turnera

Just so you know...the number one thing men usually hate about women? 

Drama.

Find a therapist and start going, ok?


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## NewLife2013

Hi Workingatit, thank you for posting. I have been following your thread but as you would imagine, I have not wisdom to share, given all my mess 

I am in counselling and have been focusing on being more patient etc which involves avoiding any kind of drama. The thing is I was being loving, kind and caring towards him which made me love him even more and the idea of D seems more painful now then in Dec when it all started. I invested all of me in the last month...thinking I could ‘love’ him back into being a family. 

He acknowledged that I was great recently and as he would want me but he did not trust it. For how long would I be that way? I could not but be extremely hurt by him saying that all the happiness I was seeing recently was fake. He just cannot commit to us. And I broke down... 

Whenever things get uncomfortable my H gives me a silent treatment – this is my worst trigger. I knew it yet I still allowed myself to continue falling apart. I know it is the worst thing ...and I want the answers. 

The thing is my H and my S are going away this weekend for a week and this separate holidays thing is just something I cannot bear. My family are going away w/o me, it’s too much...

Btw, this is the first drama since it all started happening 2.5 months ago. During the first month, I even managed well with his 'animal behaviour' - he would not make eye contact or say hello


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## kiss

I am new to this thread but I feel your pain ... I was there about twenty years ago with my first husband. He wanted out of the marriage but not out of the house. he hung around and did his own thing for a while ... I havent been through the whole story but so much is similar. I lost over 30lb and was in constant pain until I threw him out. I didnt want to and he did try to get back in (he did have someone else it turns out so goodness knows where she was when he suggested moving back in "for the sake of the children")

You will not start your recovery till you get him to leave and take off the ring. Once I did that things began to look up. On the days I dreaded I found a job, a hobby or just anything to avoid those empty times and it began to improve. A friend told me that in six months I would feel that it was a good thing, hard to believe at the time ... but it was true. Once I got into the swing of my new life, it began to "fit" who I was I found I loved that life and I never looked back.

I still dont know why he left so suddenly when I thought all was good ... but reading your story ... I sense it is similar and its gone for you as it was for me. Hold your idea that one day you may get back together if you want, but dont let it rule you. Make it a small thought amongst many bigger plans. 

Focus on making your new life on your own and in six months you may not even feel like going back even if it was offered


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## NewLife2013

Kiss - thank you so much for your thoughts. I am glad to hear that things eventually worked out for you 20 years ago. Men are really selfish and I would not be surprised if anything comes up irt some OW. The fact that he hands around at home tells me I am a good woman and I take good care of him. Supposedly it is not enough...

One thing that got me all thinking today is that I saw two days ago he bought a book on 'restoring sanity in the most important thing i.e. family'. He did say (before drama) that he is working on things too but did not want to be specific. Makes me feel the blame even more.

I am so scared of when I see him next... I think he won't even be making eye contact with me and I am not sure whether I should do the same until they leave for the holiday...


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## turnera

Respect his wishes. Treat him like a favorite aunt - caring, but reserved.


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## NewLife2013

I wish I could peak into his head and heart. For some reason, I cannot make myself believe that he has no man to waman feelings for me and that he has was not thinking to some extent that things could possibly work out. Could it be that I interpret things the way I want to?!?

Turnera, i will back off of course now that I messed things up big time... I have to wait and see how angry he is with me when he's back home tomorrow.


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## turnera

All he's feeling is hurt, sore, and untrusting. YOU are the source of his pain, NL, so if you want him to stay, you have to make this ALL.ABOUT.HIM. Ok? If you can't control your actions...well, I don't know what to say to you. Call up a doctor and ask them for help.


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## NewLife2013

He texted last night (V day) to say he was going the pickup DS from school today (his pickup day anyway)! I did not respond, no need to. I knew he worked late last night and had dinner in his hotel room, that’s what he wrote to his friend (i’m checking his e-mails just to be on the safe side that there’s no one else in the picture).

Got another text from him this morning – said wish happy birthday to your mum on my behalf. Was going to respond 30 mins later but then he called. Could not respond, just did not expect him to call. Waited a bit then called him, no response, he calls after 5 mins. I let him talk. Asks me how things are. Then says he will pick DS up today. I asked him whether his project was finished and how it went. Asks me when I would be home tonight. Not sure. Says we could go to the city centre tomorrow, he needs to buy some stuff and we could have lunch (with our DS of course). Said ok. Then he asks me whether I could help him pack for the hol (pack our DS not him), said yes. I thanked him for remembering my mom’s bday. He seemed pleased and said he remembers important dates not V days. Then he sends me a txt that he was thinking to have a hair cut tonight, whether I could be back home by 7pm (to stay with DS). Said ok.

Not too bad overall, I let him speak and was pleasant. Let’s see how things go tonight and tomorrow. They leave early Sunday to spend a week with in-laws. I will miss them both but also have a fear of him getting together with a potential OW  but I promise I won't question him or poke there.. I will keep checking Fb/ e-mails etc...


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## turnera

You did well.


----------



## workingatit

NL - glad to see a little positive interaction that is great! Let us know how tonite goes.

My only suggestion....be careful with the snooping stuff. If you have not found anything yet - I would really step back from that. You will not only make your self crazy, but if he finds out (and do not think he won't - mine did when he was cheating....) --- it could be the end of everything you hope to gain.

I did spy when he was cheating - because I KNEW he was cheating and was trying to find out how deep it was.

I have not snooped at all since then...not even now that he is out of the house. Trust and honesty is an issue....by snooping you are not giving either....just something to think about. 

If you had a REAL reason to think he was cheating...I am all for it...but I do not think that is the case here....and snooping just makes you appear needy....just be careful!


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## NewLife2013

Thanks girls.

I get the point Workingatit. I should not be snooping. 

However, he did tell me at one point (a month ago) that he may reach out to someone else, nothing planned but he may given that we are not together... 

I know he’s been msging with his friend about this young girl back in his hometown. He expressed interest, friended her on FB. No contact btw the two of them (apart from him liking her photo and commenting on some of her posts – he’s never done that before with a woman I don’t know and uses FB very little). I asked him about her and he got furious, said just manly banter... But they still banter about her and two days ago he was joking about her with me, how he’s going out where she goes out once he is there. He will definitely see her as she works with his friend and he uses his friend’s office when he needs internet, printing etc. He hanged out in his friends office in the past a lot although she just recently started working there. He met her in September, our last visit there. 

*Am I entitled to demand that no third parties are involved while we cohabit? *
This is mainly targeted at him and potential OW but want to make it general i.e. I can easily commit to that.

I know there may not be a way of knowing if he does get involved with potential OW but I want him to know that I am not ok with that in general. I may not have the right to ask that if he considers we are separated but do I have the right to ask during our ‘living under the same roof’ phase?

INterested in thoughts!


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## turnera

You are not entitled to demand much of anything at this point. Keep your eyes open and if you CATCH him doing something, calmly say 'I would like you to respect me enough to not see other women while you are living in this house. If you need to see them, please move out first.' And then leave the room.


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## stilllookingup

I could not agree with all these girls more. You are probably the only one thinking you are entitled to demand things. 

At this point you are just speculating things about this girl and all the snooping and wanting to demand things from him may end your m really fast if your H find out about your intentions. I still believe there’s no OW for my H but you never know. When I posted my story here, I got asked many times if my H had OW. There may be, there might not be but finding out about it is simply not my focus right now. My focus is to improve myself. That’s ALL I can do. I can’t control H’s behaviors or feelings so why waste time trying? I have never ever snooped around. We both have access to phones, phone records, fb etc but one thing I will not do is to check them. 

I agree with turnera. The only time you can demand him to set boundaries is when you actually caught him otherwise you are not 
entitled to demand/snoop based on your speculations. 

You said it well yourself. You are your WORST enemy and now I know you really are after your recent breakdown. Unless you start controlling your emotions, I’m afraid you are going to have that breakdown that again and push him further and further. 

Why don’t you do some kind of volunteer work.. Doing something nice for others would take your focus off you or your H.


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## NewLife2013

turnera said:


> You are not entitled to demand much of anything at this point. .


I need to keep reminding myself, over and over again...


----------



## NewLife2013

stilllookingup said:


> Unless you start controlling your emotions, I’m afraid you are going to have that breakdown that again and push him further and further.
> 
> Why don’t you do some kind of volunteer work.. Doing something nice for others would take your focus off you or your H.


Emotions in check, test, check. Need to get myself together, consistently. 

I was a bit worried how tonight would go. We were both on the couch, he was reading I was watching a movie. We did not interact much.I kept some distance and observed more. Things looked a bit clumsy btw us. Let's see how tmrw goes..

I would love to do more these days The thing is, I work all day and than in the evening am homebound at home with DS. There are days where H gets home before I do (once a week) and I do something else rather than go straight home after work. Still, not enough to keep me going. Need to look into volunteering. When they go away on Sunday I will go spend 4 days with my cousin in another country where I've never been before. She's recently moved there. So that should be fun! When I told my H that I was going, I though he was v surprised...

I am having a serious think about snooping. .. stop, stop, stop...


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## Tron

NL.

Give the snooping a rest. there is absolutely nothing you can do about your husband cheating on you next week except make yourself more crazy about it. You, as everyone has tried to explain should focus on yourself. Your H needs to be treated as a roommate until you can gain better control of yourself. You have a long and rough road ahead.

I havent read the whole thread in a week or so, so i am not 100% up on everything here, but besides your trip what else are you doing right now to focus on your mental health? what is going on in therapy? are you still in it? have you had discussions with them about medication? 

This past week's setback should hopefully be the wakeup call that makes you realize that your issues run much deeper than you think, they are recurrent and can't be solved by 180 alone.


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## turnera

And they can't be solved by a man 'wanting' you, because that puts YOUR well being forever in the hands of another person, and we all know how fraught with danger THAT is.

Therapy is sorely needed here.


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## Tron

turnera said:


> And they can't be solved by a man 'wanting' you, because that puts YOUR well being forever in the hands of another person, and we all know how fraught with danger THAT is.
> 
> Therapy is sorely needed here.


Or by a man!! Totally agree with this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NewLife2013

Tron said:


> NL.
> 
> what else are you doing right now to focus on your mental health? what is going on in therapy? are you still in it? have you had discussions with them about medication?
> 
> This past week's setback should hopefully be the wakeup call that makes you realize that your issues run much deeper than you think, they are recurrent and can't be solved by 180 alone.


Thanks Thron - i am doing IC. I have abandonement issues and I think I am co-dependent, this is something we are working on now. Overall, I am doing much better compared to a couple of months ago, I sleep and eat ok. Generally find other reasons to be happy so I don't think I am depressed. Looking back, I am in a much better place compared to December. However, I am aware that I need to control my emotions better. That was the first time I acted that way in front of him since our 'breakup', I hope really the last.

I am stopping all snooping. Nothing I can do really.


----------



## NewLife2013

turnera said:


> And they can't be solved by a man 'wanting' you, because that puts YOUR well being forever in the hands of another person, and we all know how fraught with danger THAT is.
> 
> Therapy is sorely needed here.


Well said, I agree.


----------



## NewLife2013

I’ve been more distant since the breakdown. I feel he’s been reaching out more. Small things though. 

Saturday morning he came into the bathroom as I was showering. I wrapped myself into the towel, would have not done that before. Did not pay much attention to him. Not sure whether that puzzled him but he started lifting the towel. Then made a move, I was ignoring him but could not for too long. Then we had s**. E£verything was great. He said he could not have me go to a foreign country (where the men are tall and handsome!) all *orny. We then kissed and hugged. I am trying not to make too much out of it but it is difficult not to get too carried away...

Spent the entire Saturday together and overall the atmosphere was good. In the evening he said he would sleep on the couch as he has to get up very early (to go to the airport). I somehow took that to say that otherwise he would have come to our bed. Not sure whether he said that just to pre-empt me asking... was not going to anyway. 

Woke up early to say goodbye to my two boys going away for a week. So sad, but tried to be cheerful. He kissed me and touched my bottom. Called me when they arrived, we had a lovely chat. He said he’s turning his other mobile on which he’ll be available on. I took that to mean to call him on that number if I want to speak to him. This evening I called his parents house, just to say goodnight to my son. Did not ask for him but his mom told me he went out to meet his friend for a drink. She also said that he gave her the impression that things were good between us. Maybe he just wanted to avoid talking about it... 

So, that’s where we are, I am trying not to hope too much but I so want to think of our future together...landmine I know. Will do my best to focus on small things and see where we get to...


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## turnera

Not bad. Just stay in the middle, ok?


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## NewLife2013

turnera said:


> Not bad. Just stay in the middle, ok?


What do you mean by 'stand in the middle'?


----------



## turnera

Not too standoffish and not too needy.


----------



## NewLife2013

My H and DS have been gone for nearly two full days... I am keeping busy but it is akward to say the least to be all alone at home in the evening. This is the first time they went away w/o me 

We spoke once yesterday (he called) and a couple of times today (he called in the morning, i called tonight). We did not have any prior agreement as to how often to get in touch so I am glad he's keeping up with contact. I know this is partially about our son but I am glad he is providing me other updates too. He also sent some pics of DS with his cousins and some other intersting stuff. I sense he is a bit distant and guarded when we speak. His words are very measured.... He does not ask me what I am up to, i tried to speak about it but he did not seem interested. I guess he is processing and thinking... 

I am reading several books I saw being recommended here on TAM, I have to make the most of this downtime. I have also started meditating, it is a tought one for me but at least I am trying!


----------



## stilllookingup

Did you say this trip was planned long time ago? How long will he and the kids be gone for?


----------



## NewLife2013

Not that long ago, he got the plane tickets about 5 weeks ago. The thing is, H never gave me the option to go with them, which sucks! On the other hand, things were much worse then that they are now. They are away for one week. I know a week is not long


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## NewLife2013

We've been speaking everyday, mostly over Skype so I get to see my H and my son. I was not pushing to speak everyday, he calls if I don't by certain time. I leave for my 4 day trip tomorrow and he already though how we are going to be in touch 

I don't think H is up to much, he seems bored and did not shave since leaving, which sort of makes me happy! He is actually checking work stuff as well which tells me he is not having much fun. I am aware he has not gone out in the evening once (only first night to drop something off). So far so good. I miss them teribly but as long as things are moving in the right direction! He is still a bit distant and not terribly affectionate but hey I'll wait...


----------



## mattoman

NL,

Thanks for sharing your story, I am changed in a good way for reading it from front to back. To myself, I see in you someone who is mustering all of their ability to forge forward, not knowing where exactly forward will bring you, but still most importantly, forging forward. I see in you some of what is going on in my relationship, although the situations are very different. Estrangement, rejection uncertainty and most of all pain. These are the feelings that I can most easily relate to, these are the feelings that I am suffering with atm. In you story, and In the feedback from the others, I can see that I am not alone, that I am able to survive and someday, I may be able to thrive, again in my life. Thanks for being there for me.


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## NewLife2013

mattoman said:


> NL,
> 
> Thanks for sharing your story, I am changed in a good way for reading it from front to back. To myself, I see in you someone who is mustering all of their ability to forge forward, not knowing where exactly forward will bring you, but still most importantly, forging forward. I see in you some of what is going on in my relationship, although the situations are very different. Estrangement, rejection uncertainty and most of all pain. These are the feelings that I can most easily relate to, these are the feelings that I am suffering with atm. In you story, and In the feedback from the others, I can see that I am not alone, that I am able to survive and someday, I may be able to thrive, again in my life. Thanks for being there for me.


Thank you for posting *mattoman*. You are certainly not alone in your pain. I am glad that my thread was useful to you. 

It is a rough road, it shook me and turned my world upside down, but no matter what it is not going to break me. I wish you all the best on your journey. Whatever happens, I believe that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I've learnt that we are all very adaptable to all sort of circumstances. 

I have certainly learnt a lot from this forum. Reading recommendations were spot on. I felt everyone's pain. It enriched me and made me more compassionate. 

My H and I are in a good place now. HOpefully it is not temporary and it lasts fpr a long time. I am certainly going to continue doing my bit. Will post an update when we reach another milestone. I really hope we make it. I love that man to bits and am never going to take him for granted again.


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## stilllookingup

NewLife2013 said:


> My H and I are in a good place now. HOpefully it is not temporary and it lasts fpr a long time. I am certainly going to continue doing my bit. Will post an update when we reach another milestone. I really hope we make it. I love that man to bits and am never going to take him for granted again.


??? Are they back? What's going on? I've been really sick since last Saturday I could use some heart warming stories. Do share!


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## NewLife2013

Yes, they are back and I am back home. We spoke everyday whilst apart and my H seemed bored, has not gone out much etc (my son was having fun with his cousins which is more important). MIL also told me that he was around our son most of the time and told her that if things remain as they are now between us, we are good.
I arrived home late in the eveing (they arrived the same day at liunchtime). H waited for me, we spoke a bit and slept in the same bed. That felt awesome after 3 months!
He still alternates btw the couch and our bed. He always had nights when he slept on the couch (sore back issues), but I find it hard now if we don't sleep together as I feel punished/reminded of the past 3 months...
THe thing is, we don't talk about what happened and we don't yet wear our rings. I don't think the rings are that important but still I would like us to put them back but am affraid to mention. I guess I just have to be patient... I understand if he is affraid of me reverting back to someone uncaring and nagging...
I don't post much now as my neglecting work has now backfired so am a bit stressed atm!


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## stilllookingup

Just remember what turnera said. Stand in the middle. It seems progressing but you have to take it REALLY slow. (probably much slower than you would like to) 

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Patience is so much easier said than done. When we see some obvious progress, we rush. 

Mentioning rings? I wouldn't for a long time if I were you, until he does. It's only been a couple of weeks since your last breakdown isn't it? I'd give him a lot more time until he starts trusting you again. Hang in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## NewLife2013

stilllookingup said:


> Mentioning rings? I wouldn't for a long time if I were you, until he does. It's only been a couple of weeks since your last breakdown isn't it? I'd give him a lot more time until he starts trusting you again. Hang in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  [/QUOT
> 
> H put the ring on today, he did not say anything I just noticed it this pm!! So i am putting my ring on ..
> We both worked from home today and actually spent most of the day talking, laughing, he was very loving and giving me a lot of attention. He is usually very focused when he works so the whole attention thing felt awesome....
> 
> I just hope this whole thing lasts... I know its largerly up to me given our past problems were due to my nagging and insecurities. I have ordered few books and am continuing counseling.


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## stilllookingup

I gotta be honest. When you had the breakdown I thought "oh nooo that's it" and now this? What an incredible turnaround.

What do you think made him come around? A week away from you made him realize what he's missing, you think?


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## NewLife2013

Actually, it feels like that breakdown was not a bad thing. He does not mind me crying and showing my sensitive side. He does not like me being bi***y or bossy or cold...which I must admit was too often in the past. I think he wants his manly control back... It was day 2 after the breakdown where I started feeling him coming back, did not believe it at the time but looking back that's when he started talking control and showing me that he's in charge. I was being careful not too fall too deep myself until he's back from his trip. Was afraid what would happen there. He even told me he saw that young woman when he went to print something in his friend's office. i think the fact he told me is a good thing. And he did not even bring any nice clothes there or did not shave for weeks, this tells me there's no threat there...but I still have all sorts of fears. These last 3 months traumatized me deeply...


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## turnera

You're doing fine. Given that you're so reactive, the best thing to do is limit conversations to only fluff. NO serious talks for the next few months unless he brings it up, ok? Drama affects men differently, and he may have determined he'd rather be away from you than to spend the rest of his life with you like that. So now you're showing him that you've listened, and you're working on yourself, so he may be able to see a drama-free life with you. Did I mention counting to 10?


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## Tron

New Life,

So glad to hear this.

AMAZING NEWS!!!!!

Whatever you're doing, keep it up!

I guess it's true when they say "absence makes the heart grow fonder".


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