# My story



## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

A couple people asked for me to post this. I wrote this in a PM, figured it would be about as short as I could muster. And yet I still feel I left out so much...

My wife had a rough childhood growing up, father was in jail most of her life. I was with her when they reconnected at the age of 18.

She has self-esteem problems, probably from that. She is absolutely beautiful, a real amazing woman, and yet she sees herself as ugly and worthless many times.

To many people, they would probably have looked at our marriage and seen the perfect couple. I think her friends were very envious of her. Outwardly I was a very good husband. I always worked to make her feel loved and cared for. I always told her how beautiful she was and how much I loved her, how I appreciated her. Did the random flower and card thing. Went out of my way to make her feel special.

A blessing and a curse, I think all that stuff made it more difficult to accept the part I was playing in her unhappiness. I loved and cared for her very much, but I didn’t listen to her the way she needed, I didn’t know how. I only shared my true feelings when I was lashing out in anger (which was not often). I wanted to protect her because she was already so hard on herself, I didn’t want to add to that. I had the best of intentions but all it did was drive a wedge between us. I helped around the house but only after she asked. I was bad at anticipating her needs. Again some people would be happy to get any help, but that is where I made the mistake. I told myself I was a great husband and she should be happy about me, always trying to justify myself instead of sucking it up and giving her what she needed. She told me for YEARS she felt like we were just roommates. And in my head I thought it was just her general disposition, or a woman thing. I thought it would just get better as time went on, or that she would just one day snap out of it. I never felt responsible for her her disposition.
Things went downhill when her father passed away. I know that kind of thing causes people to reflect and what not. A few months later is when she started going out with her friends more. We started MC because we were fighting more and both were getting tired of it. At first MC made it worse for me, because I was just chugging along before, after MC I realized how much crap I was putting up with.

Things came to a head one day when we were arguing about nothing. She was seriously pissed off at me and I hadn’t done anything. I knew that day was the last day of our marriage, but I told myself I would give it 100% for one last shot before calling it quits. I pulled out the Love Dare from my nightstand, it had been sitting there for a few years. And in that first page I realized my part. I had been trying to be right instead of happily married. I had justified that my wife was crazy instead of taking personal responsibility for what I could.

Overnight I completely changed. 100%. I started REALLY listening. I was able to start having empathy. I learned to share my feelings even though I knew they would cause some initial pain. Importantly for her, I was proactive about helping her around the house. Taking charge of the house and kids before she had to ask. I became the perfect Beta husband.
It’s that change that allowed me to detect something amiss in our next counseling session. She said something about being addicted to butterfly feelings, and how it was nice to get flirted with when she was out. I got that little annoying feeling in my stomach and could tell something wasn’t right. I had been completely trusting of her our entire relationship, but I started snooping that night.

I saw some messages to old friends, new friends, girls. No neon signs but little things that didn’t sit right. She was a little flirty with some of these guys. Nothing overt, just, flirty. Talking about hot guys to her girl friends. Telling other guys they looked good. Reminiscing about good times with old friends, about how she used to like them.

That was about the time she started the ILYBNILWY talk. Needing space. Feeling smothered. Needing to find herself. Wanting to be free, seeing if she could make it on her own. Like 100% standard cheaters script.

I let her go out with her friends and chat with old guy friends. It was making her feel good about herself. I wanted her to feel good. I wanted her to be happy. I wanted her to find herself. I had no idea what it all meant. I hadn’t been reading about affairs or hovering around the CWI forum. I had no idea this was standard cheater stuff.

Before I go on I should say that one thing I royally screwed up on in my marriage happened at the very start. I had a friend I met on the internet from college. We had met a few times, we were really good friends. We talked a lot and liked each other but never made anything of it. She got married before I met my wife, she let me into her marriage, and when I met my wife, I let her into mine. Nothing inappropriate ever went on, I always told my wife when we talked, kept my messages and offered to show them to my wife. But when we first got married she didn’t like it.

She didn’t think it was appropriate and wanted me to stop. I had told her everything I just said, about old friends, both married, not hiding anything. In my mind I was justified and she was being irrational. This girl was one of the only friends I had that I could share things with. I didn’t want to just give her up. It really bothered my wife, but I did nothing about it. In essence, I sh*t on her feelings.

So back to where we were, a few things happened in short time.

She started texting this old friend of hers. And she started deleting all of her texts and FB messages. Her logic was simple, the kids always had her phone and would dial people she texted. Made sense to me, I had seen it happen. I did not like them talking so much but I was still talking to my friend (didn’t want to give that up) and I definitely felt hypocritical about asking her to stop talking to her friend while I still talked to my mine. But I was still uneasy about everything, so I started leaving her FB on at work and that’s when my world started crashing down.

I was sitting at work, doing my thing, actually I was alternating between work and texting my wife. Counseling was off and on, I felt like we were making progress but she was very wishy-washy. The text messages were good, love you see you soon type stuff. I was flabbergasted when I switched over to FB and saw a stream of messages from the last 24 hours. This random guy, an old friend of her dad’s, was exchanging messages with her. She was talking about how she liked to look but not touch, how she thought he was hot, they were talking about her rack, then they started talking about sending naked pictured of eachother.

This may not seem that bad to some people now. It doesn’t to me. But that completely shattered my world. My wife is a strong, sweet, Christian woman. She was my first and we both waited to have sex till we were married. We had two kids. She worked at a church. The thought of her acting so whorish cut me deep. My arms literally started shaking and I could hardly see. I ran to my car and drove to our MC screaming and crying. I could not believe that in the middle of texting me she could be talking to this d-bag guy about sending and receiving naked pictures.

I confronted her, she told me she felt dumb, they would never talk again. She committed to me 100%. Said how sorry she felt and all that jazz. Things actually picked up from there, our relationship was really growing again, but she still seemed in angst about her life.

At that point I read all I could about cheating and affairs. Saw she had all the signs. But I rationalized that this was my wife, she may have the signs but she isn’t there yet. Nothing was going on. My wife was telling me nothing was going on, I had to believe her. I confronted her on the texts and deleting them, let her know I didn’t appreciate it. And she cut down quite a bit on them. Still kept them deleted though (it was a “habit”).

After some more counseling sessions we were really reconnecting. We starting enjoying eachother’s company. We were going out on fun dates. She told me she was looking forward to our relationship, but she still at times would tell me she wanted to find herself, wanted to see if she could make it on her own. I didn’t care, I knew we both loved each other and things were going to get better. Halloween night we went on a date and it was the best time of our life. We had so much fun. We both talked about how much fun we had and how much we loved eachother. We went home and had great sex. Things were on the up and up.

The next night we both wanted to go out but couldn’t get a baby sitter. Her ****ty single friend called her and said she was going downtown that night and wanted her to come. She had a hotel room, and they could stay there the night without having to drive home drunk. I expressed my concern but didn’t want to be “controlling” as she put it, and so she left.
Midnight I got a call, she wasn’t that drunk but her friend was so they were going to stay. Everything in my body wanted to tell her to take a cab and come right home, but again, didn’t want to sound desperate or like an ass. The next morning, determined not to “hover”, I took the kids out. I didn’t want to be home when she got there. I wanted her to feel like she missed out by going out. We stayed out till 1pm, when I got home, she was still not home.

Everything took a turn for the worse from there. She started getting agitated about everything. She stopped all physical contact. She would actively avoid me physically. She started texting all day to her ****ty single friend, something that was odd because she used to hold this person in contempt for being such a *****. She got super secretive of her phone and phone conversations. She started taking drives “just to get away”. I’ll never forget the time I kissed her forehead goodnight and she recoiled like it burned her. Through all the books I’d read I knew something was going on, I just refused to believe it. I figured she met someone while she was out and she was talking about maybe wanting to see them or date or something. Or maybe her ****ty friend was pregnant and she didn’t want me to know.

But I had been reading Love Must Be Tough and I was starting to get my balls back. I told her if she didn’t want to respect me, maybe we should separate. Instead of protesting, she said it would be a good idea. I got her the papers to review that night. The counseling session that night I told her if she deleted another text again I was leaving. She promised she was trustworthy, she was committed, nothing was going on. The ride home was unpleasant, we were two complete strangers in the car ride home. The next day I woke up and checked her phone, messages to the guy. Good, she got the hint, no funny business. The hacker in me though didn’t trust it 100%, so I ran it through her phone records and that’s when I saw it. She had selectively deleted half her texts. That was so much worse than before. Now she was actively being deceitful to me. I checked her phone and found she created a fake email and FB account. I could not believe the deceit. I didn’t tell her anything. I just said, “I was going to wait till the papers were signed, but I’m leaving right now. You have a week to find a place to live, I’m staying at my parents. We are not separating, we are divorcing.” And I took all her credit cards and gave her the grocery money for the week and left. It was amazing to me that during that time she was still playing innocent. “What do you think I did this time” “What did you find out” “Why won’t you stop playing games and just tell me what you think you know but really don’t” “Oh big deal, I deleted a couple texts, get over it”. Amazingly though I was leaving because of the deceit, I still believed nothing was going on. I thought he was helping her get ready to leave, advice about divorce and finances and planning to leave and what not.
At work I told my boss what was going on and that I was divorcing and needed some time off. I went back to my desk to get some stuff and even worse than the first time, I got my heart ripped out of my ass. I don’t know how or why or what or anything. But popping on my screen, was messages from the night before from her FB. I didn’t even know I left it on, and she knew I was checking so I don’t even know why they did it. The messages were from her friend, I couldn’t see her responses but I could see what he wrote to her. Talking about the fantasies she had been having, how they could act on them now, how she wanted to come out there for a trip and they could see eachother all week, what outfits she would wear, how he was going to pound her so hard she wouldn’t be able to walk straight.

A piece of me died right there. All that naivety I had and trust was completely destroyed. All the signs made complete sense. I was a fool for not trusting my gut and for being so naïve. Turns out she had been sex messaging this guy since a few days before I had read the Love Dare. They took a break because they both knew it wasn’t right and she wanted to work on the marriage, but it was back on in full force not 24 hours after we talked about separating. My wife, who I believed was trustworthy to that point, was a complete lying, deceiving, b*tch. Everything she said to me over the last few weeks had been a sham. All the gaslighting, making me feel guilty or controlling. Promising nothing was going on. Committing to me 100%. All the work I had been doing on our marriage…

I started putting two and two together, she was texting this ****ty friend of hers every day all day long. What else went on? I wondered what happened Halloween night, that was when sh*t seemed to hit the fan. Was she seeing some guy locally too? She had been talking about co-habitating instead of divorcing “for the kids.” I figured she was playing me for money and was going to try to steal from me at any time, probably to fund her “vacation” to go see the EA partner. I called her and told her I needed her to go with me to the Bank to sign some papers. She tried to delay it, I was more and more convinced she was trying to screw me. She told me she “wanted to talk and see if we could work things out” and I let her know I would talk to her after she signed the papers. My plan was to see what she would tell me. If she lead me on, I would know she was just after my money. I was 95% sure I was going to hear more stories, so I went expecting to continue divorcing.

On the way to the bank, I started thinking about how I would destroy her and this guy. This supposed “friend” who was a “good Christian guy”. He was a counselor and I had messaged him making sure he was responsible and didn’t have any malicious intent with my wife (naïve and dumb I know). His response was he would never do anything like that to ruin a marriage, they were just friends. He enjoyed helping people in their marriages. Funny that he said that after they had sex messaged for 3 days straight and sent him naked pictures (I checked the phone records and for literally 3 full days they back and forthed every minute). I had my plan all worked out. I was going to message them both on FB, I can’t even write what I was planning because it is so evil and twisted, but I was assured neither of them would enjoy sex for the remainder of their life ever again. I was in the process of planning how I would out her on her own FB, changing the passwords and posting all the back and forth messages and how she had been lying and cheating this whole time while I worked hard on the marriage.

Luckily God had been working on me those few weeks, and in the middle of my rage showed me that is not the man I am nor who I want to be. He reminded me that I have been unfaithful to him, and yet he still loves me and shows me mercy even though I don’t deserve it. I promised to myself that I was going to be a man of character and treat her with love and respect and dignity no matter what happened.

When she was there to sign the papers she was still in her mood. She made me seem like the bad guy. We got home and before she said I word I let her know, “I want you to know that I’m willing to listen to whatever you have to say, but I want you to know that if you aren’t ready to be 100% honest with me, then don’t say anything.” I told her if she was not 100% truthful about everything, we were 100% done and there was no way we would ever reconcile. I also told her before she started that no matter what happened, I was going to treat her with love and respect, because she was the mother of my kids and that I did care about her as a person. I mentioned that I hoped she finds happiness in her life, and that regardless of what happens with us, she won’t find happiness on her current path.

She still tried to play games somewhat. She was not immediately forthright. She would not tell me anything for a few minutes. She wanted to know what I knew first. I told her what I knew did not matter, because she was going to tell me everything and be 100% open. She asked what I wanted to know.

My plan was, start with the unknowns and work my way to what I did know. If she lied about what I did know, I would know she lied about the stuff before. So I mentioned a trip she took a few weeks before, “What happened on the trip?” I could tell she was honest. She was 100% quick on the response. She was with her friends and relatives the whole time, I knew that.

Then I asked her what happened on Halloween night………..crickets……….she turned her head to the side. She was trying to hide from me. And before she could say anything, I knew that my worst fears were confirmed. “What do you know? Who told you?” I wouldn’t have it…. She started crying.

Interesting that up until this point I had imagined many times what would happen if my wife ever cheated on me. You replay the possibility in your head, and you imagine that you will be a fountain of rage and anger. But when I heard her say the words, I was completely calm. I can not describe why I did not get angry or upset. I stopped caring about me for those few minutes, and I had empathy towards my wife. Not because I was planning on forgiving her, quite the contrary, I was all but sure we would be divorced at that point. I felt bad for her because I knew that she had ruined her life, and could see in her face that she knew it too.

She gave me the details of what happened, well, a watered down version anyway. And I just sat there with her and prayed for her. I let her know that she would be forgiven, that God had forgiven her. That I would still treat her with love and respect even though we wouldn’t be married. That she had to turn her life around not for us, but for herself and our kids.
My wife started bawling. I guess at that point she started saying all the things you want your wife to say when you get that bombshell. I didn’t really even offer anything, I was pretty convinced we were getting divorced so I wasn’t looking for her to prove anything to me. But she started talking about how sorry she felt. How horrible she felt. How it broke her heart to think about the pain she caused me and our family. She said she knew what she wanted, she can’t believe how she could ever screw up something so awesome. She told me that she couldn’t believe how humble and forgiving I was and that is why she married me. She talked about how much she loved me and how attracted to me she was. How she was desperate and in so much pain and completely lost and was just trying to fill that void. She told me how I was the perfect husband and she could not have asked for more in a man than what she had seen the last few weeks. She offered me her cellphone (actually she offered to throw it away). She told me she would delete her FB account. She would stop going out with her friends. She would never talk to any of these guys ever again, immediately. She offered to do whatever it took to show me that she could be trusted. She offered for me to take as much time as I needed to rebuild her trust.
In essence, she was truly remorseful, even before I knew that was a term.

So to make a long story short, I have chosen to forgive her because I have seen from her actions that she is truly remorseful. And that she was lost and in pain and didn’t have the emotional maturity to handle it properly. More importantly, she has recognized her depression and emotional shortcomings and begun working on fixing them. And as far as showing, though I commented that sometimes I feel like there is a spark missing when she looks at me, she has made extreme efforts and progress on showing me love, respect, and working on my needs. From the effort side, I couldn’t really ask more, and I see her making improvements every day.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Good Luck (you will need it)


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## sadinsalem (Jan 12, 2012)

I truly think you mad a poor decision regarding this. In my line of work, I meet a lot of people, and are friends with many. I have never once seen someone in a situation like yours EVER work out properly. The only thing that will change is that she will be more careful. Soon enough the forgiveness honeymoon will be over and the broken record will replay. I HOPE I am wrong, I truly do, and not one word of this was written in scorn for you. But, i will tell you, things for you are pretty bleak...


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Sorry, but that doesn't add up. 

Based upon her history she will continue the lies and the hookups.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Correct me if I am wrong but you seem quite at peace no matter if she cheats on you again or not. You also seem as if you'll be fine if you chose to remain married to her or choose to divorce her. Am I way of?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

sadinsalem said:


> I truly think you mad a poor decision regarding this. In my line of work, I meet a lot of people, and are friends with many. I have never once seen someone in a situation like yours EVER work out properly. The only thing that will change is that she will be more careful. Soon enough the forgiveness honeymoon will be over and the broken record will replay. I HOPE I am wrong, I truly do, and not one word of this was written in scorn for you. But, i will tell you, things for you are pretty bleak...


Well I know that's not true because statistically many marriages recover from affairs. I know there are several successful reconciliation stories on this forum. I personally know of one in real life but admittedly most people are reluctant to share this kind of information for fear of scorn.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

morituri said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but you seem quite at peace no matter if she cheats on you again or not. You also seem as if you'll be fine if you chose to remain married to her or choose to divorce her. Am I way of?


At times when I'm feeling insecure I worry about her cheating again. Other times, yesterday was one of them (and don't ask me why, I couldn't tell you), I'm feeling confident and I think if she wants to screw up and ruin it, that would be her loss.

I think during her EA period, before d-day, I was smothering and fearful of the loss and was struggling with losing her. Since that time I have realized a lot about myself, remembered who I was, and feel more secure if things were to not work out. I would be sad, because I love her and I know we can have a great life, especially after these last few months that we have grown so much. But I would not accept any sort of betrayal or dishonesty like that again, and would have no regrets about leaving if I saw her acting afool.

So to answer your question, yes and no 

But honestly from her actions since d-day, I have seen that she is trustworthy and every time I thought I "caught" her up to something, she was without blame and forthright about everything (EA guy texted her was a good example). At this point, after everything we've gone through, it would be pretty foolish for her to screw it up now. So I've built up a lot of trust since d-day. On a scale of 1 to 100 of trust, 100 being before all the mess and 0 being on d-day, I'd say I'm around a 75 right now.

The biggest thing is the honesty and openness and intimacy we have. She could go underground and cheat on me, any spouse could. But she would have to take some serious acting classes to fake that kind of intimacy. And since we are both much more in tune with eachother, I don't think either of us would let the other draw apart without bringing it up.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

How long ago did this happen


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

COGuy, you're a CWI veteran, so you absolutely know what to do, what requirements for R are, etc. I hope yours is a success story, of course, that all depends on your WW. You know all about transparency, NC, and fishing. Hope it works out for you! :smthumbup:

But if you ever need the 2x4, let me know. Sometimes we all need that outside perspective.


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## sadinsalem (Jan 12, 2012)

Like I said, I truly truly hope I am wrong. But sometimes it's not the infidelity , it's the how the infidelity was completed that is the issue.... it


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

COguy I sincerely wish you and your wife the best. I'm puzzled though because you referred to your wife's affair as an EA when all indication that her Halloween GNO (girl's night out) with the sl*t friend, staying in a hotel, coming home at 1:00 PM the following day, and doing everything to avoid any physical intimacy, was that she had sex with another man. Did she have a ONS?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You chose to forgive he because she cried? ray:

Hope you made the right decision.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

morituri said:


> COguy I sincerely wish you and your wife the best. I'm puzzled though because you referred to your wife's affair as an EA when all indication that her Halloween GNO (girl's night out) with the sl*t friend, staying in a hotel, coming home at 1:00 PM the following day, and doing everything to avoid any physical intimacy, was that she had sex with another man. Did she have a ONS?


Sorry, maybe it wasn't clear. The EA was with a guy a few thousand miles away. On the GNO she had a ONS. Not in any way excusing the behavior because the entire thing reeks of wanting to screw up, but from what I know of the night she went the whole night without incident, got really drunk right before leaving, and then passed out at the hotel. ONS guy initiated while she was sleeping. There was a little trickle truth at first because as she explained it to me the first time it sounded like rape. Then she got honest and admitted she wanted it to happen and that's why she didn't stop it. But I confirmed her story through detective work and it is true. Nothing major happened ( I'm sure she flirted that night but no kissing or numbers or back alley shenanigans), she got really wasted right before leaving (like horribly sick awful almost hispital wasted not fun drunk wasted), she went to bed alone to pass out, ONS guy came in unannounced and started mackin.

Its not excusable, but at least consciously I don't think she meant to cheat that night, or else she would have secured something at the bars, or not passed out alone. Before anyone asks, ONS guy was a friend of ****ty friends and was with them all night. It was not a bar bring back to hook up with. She admitted she flirted with him that night but is adamant she went to bed alone and there was no talk of hanky panky at any point in the night. This is the kind of guy that would screw a drunk married chick if he could get it in for a few minutes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zsu234 (Oct 25, 2010)

That story doesn't ring true. You need to strap her to a polygraph as a condition of R.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Like I said things don't add up.

If she was that drunk, she would still be Thst drunk when he cme by and she woud not have been in any shape to make a decision like that, nor would she be able to participate.

So either she wasn't that drunk, or she was raped. Since she isnt claiming rape, then she wasn't that drunk and she likely did a lot more then she s admitting too.

It also diesnt add up over her EA without contact.

You really need to hook her up to a polygraph.

This is as much about the future as the past. She has basically pulled a last minute rugsweep on you. By going down to the wire, you were so relieved that you just forgave and took her back. No consequences means no reason not to do it again.

It also doesn't add up that she just switched off the EA. really?? Just like that, on the spot ?

Honestly my gut says there s a lot to her cheating that she hasn't revealed AND I suspect a very high chance of false R or soon to repeat behavior.

Has she cut out her friends? Has she. Done anything except mea culpa, but I'm better now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> You chose to forgive he because she cried? ray:
> 
> Hope you made the right decision.


No, she said nothing happened and for me to stop being jealous and controlling. It made sense, so I stuck around.

Pshaw!

Hope you think better of me than that!

Actually the night before I had just read about how women's crying biologically affects men, so I was at least consciously aware of it's effect on me during that conversation.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

zsu234 said:


> That story doesn't ring true. You need to strap her to a polygraph as a condition of R.


What doesn't ring true?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> On the way to the bank, I started thinking about how I would destroy her and this guy. This supposed “friend” who was a “good Christian guy”. He was a counselor and I had messaged him making sure he was responsible and didn’t have any malicious intent with my wife (naïve and dumb I know). His response was he would never do anything like that to ruin a marriage, they were just friends. He enjoyed helping people in their marriages. Funny that he said that after they had sex messaged for 3 days straight and sent him naked pictures (I checked the phone records and for literally 3 full days they back and forthed every minute). I had my plan all worked out. I was going to message them both on FB, I can’t even write what I was planning because it is so evil and twisted, but I was assured neither of them would enjoy sex for the remainder of their life ever again. I was in the process of planning how I would out her on her own FB, changing the passwords and posting all the back and forth messages and how she had been lying and cheating this whole time while I worked hard on the marriage.
> 
> Luckily God had been working on me those few weeks, and in the middle of my rage showed me that is not the man I am nor who I want to be. He reminded me that I have been unfaithful to him, and yet he still loves me and shows me mercy even though I don’t deserve it. I promised to myself that I was going to be a man of character and treat her with love and respect and dignity no matter what happened.


Did you ever expose this guy to his workplace or church? What a scumbag!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Like I said things don't add up.
> 
> If she was that drunk, she would still be Thst drunk when he cme by and she woud not have been in any shape to make a decision like that, nor would she be able to participate.
> 
> So either she wasn't that drunk, or she was raped. Since she isnt claiming rape, then she wasn't that drunk and she likely did a lot more then she s admitting too.


She admitted to sex and flirting throughout the night. Why would she be open about having sex with him but not open about telling me more?

And I disagree, you can be really drunk and still have willing sex with someone. That's kind of the thing with being drunk, it impairs your decision making ability. Have you never heard of someone having willing sex with someone that they wouldn't have sober?

I told her she was raped, when she gave me the initial version. Later I found out that she was willing and wanted it to happen. She told me flat out she could have stopped it and she didn't. She didn't stop the advances on the bed or stop the sex when she had opportunities (and she did). After that I realized that she wasn't raped, she cheated willingly. And that goes along with how I feel about the night. Maybe she didn't consciously go out with the intent to have sex with someone, but what do you expect will happen when you go out drinking with ****ty friends late at night in a ****ty outfit and flirt with guys.



> It also diesnt add up over her EA without contact.


what doesn't add up?



> You really need to hook her up to a polygraph.
> 
> This is as much about the future as the past. She has basically pulled a last minute rugsweep on you. By going down to the wire, you were so relieved that you just forgave and took her back. No consequences means no reason not to do it again.


Relieved at what? I found out she was having an EA, sex messaged a guy, sent naked pictures, and had sex with someone else. At what point in my story did I express any relief over any of that situation?

The consequence was we were getting divorced. My decision to take her back was based on her response to the situation and the actions that she committed to and followed through with diligently.

What criteria would you establish for reconciling with a cheater? I've spent a lot of time on the boards and everything someone would expect or ask for, she has done. Much of it without me having to ask for.



> It also doesn't add up that she just switched off the EA. really?? Just like that, on the spot ?


What do you expect from someone who is remorseful? Isn't that the test? It was hard for her, she was sad at losing a friend. They never said I love you's. But she understood if she wanted the marriage to work she could never talk to him again. She offered to write him on the spot that they would never talk again.



> Honestly my gut says there s a lot to her cheating that she hasn't revealed AND I suspect a very high chance of false R or soon to repeat behavior.
> 
> Has she cut out her friends? Has she. Done anything except mea culpa, but I'm better now?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What would lead you to believe it's a false R?

She cut off her ****ty friend, the one that let her into that situation and encouraged her to continue seeing the ONS guy.

As for her actions, as mentioned, she cut off all contact with EA guy and has never attempted contacting ONS guy. She stopped going out with her friends to shady places (they go out to dinner at restaurants every once in a while, verified by me). She gave me full access to her phone and email and FB and even offered to get rid of all of them if I wanted. She committed to continue going to IC and MC.

In addition, she has dramatically changed her attitude. She is much more respectful and grateful. She is working very hard on meeting my needs and speaking my love languages. I have another thread about "the spark", but from an actions standpoint, I feel she's done an amazing job in putting in the effort for us to have a happy marriage.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Did you ever expose this guy to his workplace or church? What a scumbag!


I would have if the EA continued. And if he tries to contact her again I would.

I have to balance it now because they know a lot of the same people and I don't want to cause a lot of drama with my wife. It would be one thing if she was still in the EA, then I would have no qualms about outting it. But now that it's over, I don't really feel like stirring up a whole bunch of crap.

But yes, the guy is a douche. In many ways, much more than the ONS guy, who is also a douche.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Complexity said:


> How long ago did this happen


D day was a few days after Halloween. So it's been about 3 months. There was about a month of hysterical bonding. That was pretty awesome.

We're really close now, I'm amazed at how awesome our marriage is. I've said on here before, that if the cheating is what it took to get us where we are, I would do it over again. I don't say that lightly, because there was a few week period where I wanted to fall off the face of the earth, and I've never felt anything remotely close to that ever in my life. I've never had the urge to drown my pain with alcohol or drugs before, but the day I gave her the papers it took every ounce of my strength not to.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

COGuy, thanks for posting this. I think you are me from a parallel universe. I was triggering all the way through reading this so it was pretty difficult to get through, it is scary how they follow the same script. So many things in your story went down exactly as mine, with only a few differences here and there. Until, that is, you got to the last couple paragraphs and described her true remorse. I was there in the room with you as you were telling it, but the reactions I got from my W were not of remorse, she offered apology but only for the way I found out. I'd like to think at that point my senses and awareness was heightened to know if she had been truly remorseful... forget a polygraph, at that moment I WAS a polygraph machine, I could see right through her. Sadly for me there was nothing in her, however I believe you when you say you see true remorse in her. Good luck on this path, I hope she is able to keep the fog away and kick those obsessive feelings she has for the butterfly feelings to the curb until she finds how to get them with you.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

So she sexts one guy and f*cks another guy while lying and blindsiding you all this time. You catch her red handed then confesses and feels remorse.

Something tells me you are in extreme Repair mode with some hints of denial . I cannot quite explain it . You are in some kind of euphoria. My limited vocabulary fails me here. At 3 months point, you should be treading lightly on R, not dive miles into it. For what it is worth, she could just be concerned about her social image. Just because you had an epiphany about your life and God doesn't mean she had the same. Her motives might be entirely different. She has no future prospect with the OM1 or the ONS. Does her family know? What about the financials?
Even if she is genuinely remorseful, this euphoria you are feeling might not last. 3 months is too short a time. I was expecting that this happened some years back. Remember, she did it once. She can do it again. Trust her too soon at your own peril. You seem too happy about R to have a balanced view


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> So she sexts one guy and f*cks another guy while lying and blindsiding you all this time. You catch her red handed then confesses and feels remorse.
> 
> Something tells me you are in extreme Repair mode with some hints of denial . I cannot quite explain it . You are in some kind of euphoria. My limited vocabulary fails me here. At 3 months point, you should be treading lightly on R, not dive miles into it. For what it is worth, she could just be concerned about her social image. Just because you had an epiphany about your life and God doesn't mean she had the same. Her motives might be entirely different. She has no future prospect with the OM1 or the ONS. Does her family know? What about the financials?
> Even if she is genuinely remorseful, this euphoria you are feeling might not last. 3 months is too short a time. I was expecting that this happened some years back. Remember, she did it once. She can do it again. Trust her too soon at your own peril. You seem too happy about R to have a balanced view


That's a valid viewpoint. First off, when i "caught" her, she didn't know that I knew anything. I did not share anything that I knew. I let her come clean, even though it was obvious that I did know something.

I did later learn that she had told her friends and IC, and that she had made an appointment for me to meet with her and her IC to come clean at her office. That was on monday and d-day was on thursday afternoon. I don't put much stake in that, but the truth is she did have an appointment for it so I wonder what she would have said if she wasn't plan on coming clean that day...

As for the other stuff. You are correct in many ways. As much as I am enjoying our marriage and believe wholeheartedly that we have nothing to fear in that regard, I am still cautious.

After you have been betrayed like this there is absolutely no way you will ever go back to the way you were. I could never let her get away with a fraction of the stuff she did in her wayward period. Not even the actions, but the attitude and relationship would not be able to go that route. Long before she would have the chance to cheat, we would be talking about it in MC and if I did not get warm fuzzies about where we were headed, we would be having talks about D.

The prospect you bring up, that R would fail and we aren't married anymore, were initially difficult for me to deal with. As time goes though, I realized that is true for every marriage. The thought that you are "safe" is only an illusion, and reserved for those that have never had a cheating spouse. I think that's why you see so many people jumping the gun on TAM.

No one is safe from the dangers of cheating, that could be true for me, but is also true of the 30 year married couple who've never had an issue their entire marriage. If I lived the rest of my life with that fear, I'd never be close to anyone again and would end up a hermit or monk. At some point you have to trust the person, and trusting means you are vulnerable to getting hurt again.

Daily, I am putting more and more trust in my wife that she will not screw up. And as I've said, so far she has shown me no reasons that I can not continue to do so.

Again I ask the question to those that are skeptical. What would YOUR requirements for reconciliation be? If my wife is not truly remorseful, what more would you expect? I'm asking that in all sincerity.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> would have if the EA continued. And if he tries to contact her again I would.
> 
> I have to balance it now because they know a lot of the same people and I don't want to cause a lot of drama with my wife. It would be one thing if she was still in the EA, then I would have no qualms about outting it. But now that it's over, I don't really feel like stirring up a whole bunch of crap.
> 
> But yes, the guy is a douche. In many ways, much more than the ONS guy, who is also a douche.


I question the ethics of this. If this guy, a so-called Christian, is a standing member of a church and possibly provides counseling to church members (I would not know if this is the case) aren't you and your WW Biblically commanded to make his transgressions known to the pastor and elders of said church? I believe one of Paul's epistles deals with exposing sin among the bretheren.

This man is a wolf, and if he did this with your wife he is doing this to other men's wives also. This snake needs to be smoked out of the cornfield.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> I question the ethics of this. If this guy, a so-called Christian, is a standing member of a church and possibly provides counseling to church members (I would not know if this is the case) aren't you and your WW Biblically commanded to make his transgressions known to the pastor and elders of said church? I believe one of Paul's epistles deals with exposing sin among the bretheren.
> 
> This man is a wolf, and if he did this with your wife he is doing this to other men's wives also. This snake needs to be smoked out of the cornfield.


No, he's not counseling at a church. Actually I don't even think he has a counselling job, just what he went to school for and is "one of his passions". And if I felt he was a wolf I would think differently. I saw many of the initial messages, my wife was mostly to blame and really is the one that escalated it. He did what most single guys would do when a hot chick hits on you and opens the door to that kind of talk. Actually I think he is the one that told her they needed to stop with the sex talk and she should work on the marriage.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

COguy said:


> Again I ask the question to those that are skeptical. What would YOUR requirements for reconciliation be? If my wife is not truly remorseful, what more would you expect? I'm asking that in all sincerity.


Is R a requirement? There are different levels of cheating. Willful cheating long term is a deal breaker. Cheating with intent is a deal breaker. Loss of trust is a deal breaker. Actually the loss of trust is a very big deal for me. There are some mistakes I forgive however grave they are, but once I lose trust in a person, you are good as dead to me. It will take a very very long time for me to even look at you. But that is me.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Is R a requirement? There are different levels of cheating. Willful cheating long term is a deal breaker. Cheating with intent is a deal breaker. Loss of trust is a deal breaker. Actually the loss of trust is a very big deal for me. There are some mistakes I forgive however grave they are, but once I lose trust in a person, you are good as dead to me. It will take a very very long time for me to even look at you. But that is me.


I totally respect that. I mean I have never in any way been judgemental of any BS' response to the cheating. If someone couldn't handle it, and that's completely understandable, it would be foolish to try to R.

It just seems that people are ok with the concept, but somehow not ok with this specific instance of it. If that's the case, I'm curious as to what more they would want to see from a WS that my wife is not doing or has not done.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

COguy said:


> I totally respect that. I mean I have never in any way been judgemental of any BS' response to the cheating. If someone couldn't handle it, and that's completely understandable, it would be foolish to try to R.
> 
> It just seems that people are ok with the concept, but somehow not ok with this specific instance of it. If that's the case, I'm curious as to what more they would want to see from a WS that my wife is not doing or has not done.


I agree with you here... in my case if I believed R was possible I absolutely would have tried to fight for that. What matters is getting out of limbo and more importantly that it is real and for the right reasons. In my case I got out of limbo by accepting that R was no longer an option for either of us. Now my challenge in life is to repair my self esteem, cope with the rejection, and deal with my new life as a divorced father. Your challenge is dealing with the betrayal, rebuilding your trust in your W, being aware and maintaining the attraction while she tries to repair the broken things inside her. Neither of our challenges are easy.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Thank you for sharing your painful story.

Ultimately you know your wife better than any of us, so I hope it works out.

You are a better man than I, because I do not have the strength to muster that kind of forgiveness. My contempt for her and her deeds would rule my world. And I would live for nothing but revenge.

I also can't help but see 1 major deal breaker of a red flag.

She is remorseful, and by her actions willing to do everything possible to reconcile....yet you know deep down she has no romantic "spark" for you. 

If that type of romatic love for you does not exist it's a betrayal in itself.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

sinnister said:


> You are a better man than I, because I do not have the strength to muster that kind of forgiveness. My contempt for her and her deeds would rule my world. And I would live for nothing but revenge.


I take issue with that. Infidelity strikes all us differently. Think of it like the tsunami that hit Japan last year for a minute and remember that the degree of injury suffered by the victims varied from death, mutilation and maiming, scratches and unscathed. No one who came out unscathed was considered a 'better victim' and neither should a man who chose to reconcile with his unfaithful wife be considered a 'better man'.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

morituri said:


> I take issue with that. Infidelity strikes all us differently. Think of it like the tsunami that hit Japan last year for a minute and remember that the degree of injury suffered by the victims varied from death, mutilation and maiming, scratches and unscathed. No one who came out unscathed was considered a 'better victim' and neither should a man who chose to reconcile with his unfaithful wife be considered a 'better man'.


This is a great analogy... my ex W lost her mom to cancer, her family was somewhat religious, but when my ex W's mother passed away she got a very bad taste in her mouth from the people in her church for this same reason, the implicit suggestions that those who are more faithful or pray better or are more determined or fight harder will survive. These people (of course not all, but some whose opinoins obviously mattered) were essentially judging her deceased mom as unfaithful for not receiving a miracle. Some even made it not so implicit, I can't believe how insensitive some people can be without even realizing it, especially as supposed "Christians" who should realize that life is eternal anyway.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I agree, infidelity is very similar to losing a loved one. Some people can get really wrecked from losing someone not that close to them, others can lose someone very close to them and walk away relatively unscathed.

It's all about how we deal with emotions, our emotional stability before, our coping mechanisms, and our personality traits.

The only thing I will say that I feel is important in these situations, is the ability to forgive people. Forgiveness is something that needs to be done to move on, even if you have no plans to reconcile. It doesn't mean you forget, it doesn't mean you excuse, it doesn't mean you put them in a position to continue abusing your trust.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

COguy said:


> The only thing I will say that I feel is important in these situations, is the ability to forgive people. Forgiveness is something that needs to be done to move on, even if you have no plans to reconcile. It doesn't mean you forget, it doesn't mean you excuse, it doesn't mean you put them in a position to continue abusing your trust.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Couldn't agree with you more strongly. Forgiveness and reconciliation are two totally different animals. It is much better to forgive and never reconcile, like was the case with me and my ex-wife, than to reconcile and never forgive.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I commend you, well played sir in changing your lifes around. this could have gone south but just like my story, God had a hand in all of it.

I personal can't figure out why I was so calm on d-day, just like you after the shaking and the crazyness of seeing what you don't really want to see and then having this calmness come over us when we confront our W, has to be the hand of God.

Your story has hit close to home, your action were very simular, and my W "events" are some what simular and after 2years since d-day my fWW is awsome, she has a completly different life style a behavior that is more then I could ask for.

We still can't get into church as much as we should!

BTW, my wife behaved the same way yours did. I pray that its a good sign, and in 2 years time you will be were we are. It will be tough but with your W help you will heal.


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## FindingMe123 (May 20, 2012)

I'm happy for you that you've found a way to deal with the hurt and to move on with your life without the bitterness that seems to follow some of us. I'm someone that 6 months post D-Day still struggles daily and I spend most of my time angry so hearing your story makes me a little envious of your ability to move forward! Even if some people may see your reconciliation as false; it's not their marriage


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Reading this a year after we split....I was such an idiot.

How could you guys let me be so naive?

LOL this story looks like a joke. My ex was going absolutely buck wild and then snaps her fingers and cries and I took her back and assumed everything was going to be great. Yikes! Props to all the guys that called a spade a spade.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

COguy said:


> Reading this a year after we split....I was such an idiot.
> 
> How could you guys let me be so naive?
> 
> LOL this story looks like a joke. My ex was going absolutely buck wild and then snaps her fingers and cries and I took her back and assumed everything was going to be great. Yikes! Props to all the guys that called a spade a spade.


Don't fret, most of us make similar mistakes. You are now in the "expert" category for dealing with betrayal. Your experiences can help others.

Thanks for the update! It is good that newbies are reading this.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

COguy said:


> Reading this a year after we split....I was such an idiot.
> 
> How could you guys let me be so naive?
> 
> LOL this story looks like a joke. My ex was going absolutely buck wild and then snaps her fingers and cries and I took her back and assumed everything was going to be great. Yikes! Props to all the guys that called a spade a spade.


I read that first post of yours shaking my head the whole time. It was like watching an oncoming train wreck. You did almost everything completely wrong except for when you seemed dead set on divorce. But at least it sounds like you've moved on or are in the process of it I'm assuming.


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## whowouldhavethought (Jun 15, 2013)

COguy said:


> Reading this a year after we split....I was such an idiot.
> 
> How could you guys let me be so naive?
> 
> LOL this story looks like a joke. My ex was going absolutely buck wild and then snaps her fingers and cries and I took her back and assumed everything was going to be great. Yikes! Props to all the guys that called a spade a spade.


I am confused. It sounded like you reconciled with our wife, but now you are split. What am I missing?:scratchhead:

WWHT


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

whowouldhavethought said:


> I am confused. It sounded like you reconciled with our wife, but now you are split. What am I missing?:scratchhead:
> 
> WWHT


WWHT,

Just guessing from your join date that you are still taking all of this stuff in.

COguy was like many of us. He wanted to trust and forgive his WW. Now he has updated his thread from over a year ago.

One more case of a false R. The problem is we often try to assume the best of the worst type of people. I have done it many times myself.

I vote once again that a D is usually better than R after an affair. My hats are off to those that R successfully.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

COguy said:


> Reading this a year after we split....I was such an idiot.
> 
> How could you guys let me be so naive?
> 
> LOL this story looks like a joke. My ex was going absolutely buck wild and then snaps her fingers and cries and I took her back and assumed everything was going to be great. Yikes! Props to all the guys that called a spade a spade.


Please give the aftermath! What happened in the last year +
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

Lovemytruck said:


> WWHT,
> 
> Just guessing from your join date that you are still taking all of this stuff in.
> 
> ...


I agree 100% I've read many stats but I think its usually best to end it immediately and move on. Taking the power back that was stolen gives you a head start on your new life. That's what I did. My Ex has been D 3 more times since and now lives alone with her mother in an apt. I threw her out so fast she never knew what hit her and I'm convinced she acted on impulse because she felt she had 1 free get out of jail card to play - so to speak. I didn't allow her the chance even with the begging. She still regrets what she did to me and us yrs later!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

When was DD2? 
Where are you in your recovery?
Got laid?
Got a girlfriend?
Never marry again?


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

COguy said:


> Reading this a year after we split....I was such an idiot.
> 
> How could you guys let me be so naive?
> 
> LOL this story looks like a joke. My ex was going absolutely buck wild and then snaps her fingers and cries and I took her back and assumed everything was going to be great. Yikes! Props to all the guys that called a spade a spade.



I didn't noticed this thread was 1 year old. I was very moved by your willingness to forgive your wife and your continuous effort to save your marriage, even though I sensed there was something a bit off in this story.

Good luck in your new life!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

weightlifter said:


> When was DD2?
> Where are you in your recovery?
> Got laid?
> Got a girlfriend?
> Never marry again?


For those that are new to the forum, here were the followups:

A few months later, after she started getting really pissy and acting like she wanted out:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ion/46545-getting-divorced-what-happened.html

When we decided to split:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...n/48178-its-official-im-getting-divorced.html

When I found out that my wife had been lying the entire time and my life got rocked hard:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/48400-aaaaahhhhhhh.html

I started a private thread after that I won't link to, with some of my early trials and tribulations in dealing with the shock and the custody with the kids. It got pretty crazy there.

For those that just read this thread, my wife has at least one, if not many, personality disorders. Official diagnosis coming soon via a court appointed psychologist.

She got served in late June of 2012, I was pretty shaken up for about 2 months, but after that I started doing awesome. New friends, new activities, new lease on life. Besides the kids it's really been the best thing to ever happen to me. Gave me some real insight into myself and showed me what I was made of and the stuff I need to work on.

I went on a little bit of a lady spree for about 2 months. Definitely got laid. Wasn't looking for anything serious, just having fun. Been dating a girl for a few months exclusively, she's great and it's been really good for me.

I won't say I'll never marry again, but I definitely wouldn't rush it, not interested in rushing into anything at this point. Those brain chemicals can really make you do messed up stuff.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

southernsurf said:


> I agree 100% I've read many stats but I think its usually best to end it immediately and move on. Taking the power back that was stolen gives you a head start on your new life. That's what I did. My Ex has been D 3 more times since and now lives alone with her mother in an apt. I threw her out so fast she never knew what hit her and I'm convinced she acted on impulse because she felt she had 1 free get out of jail card to play - so to speak. I didn't allow her the chance even with the begging. She still regrets what she did to me and us yrs later!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


For everyone that asks what to do after cheating/EA/whatever, my answer will never change.

Serve the papers, prepare for the worst, and watch how they act.

You can always stop a divorce proceeding, but watching them attempt to reconcile after several MONTHS will show you where their heart is really at. Someone who is truly remorseful and wants their spouse back will not stop trying month after month. The cheaters at heart will go back to the single life they craved.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

One reason why people should not delete their threads. Just an invaluable source of information and self reflection when you can look back and read how you felt and how you acted during one of the most emotionally draining times in your life. It helps you really see how far you have come and what a toxic relationship you have left. Not only that, but stories left here on TAM really can help people out.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What's the latest on your wife?


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

COguy said:


> For those that are new to the forum, here were the followups:
> 
> A few months later, after she started getting really pissy and acting like she wanted out:
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ion/46545-getting-divorced-what-happened.html
> ...


Thanks for sharing these links to your threads. I was a full-blown lurker and going through my own recovery when you were posting. It was good to look back and remember. The BPD traits were similar to my exWW. Uptown had some strong posts that really helped me understand more for my situation.

Peace is realizing that it is finally over. Glad you are back with a new life!!!

Thanks for helping us as you struggled.

Hope you are planning an AWESOME FRIDAY NIGHT!!! I know I am.


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

I didn't read all the threads. I just glanced at them... I'm speechless with the amount of deceit you endured... How could your ex wife change so much!? Just shows that you never really know someone.
Thank you for sharing your story!


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

COguy,

I just read your posts. I am sorry for what you have been through brother but you did your best to be a good man going through all of it so I have to commend you.

Good luck and God bless!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Memento said:


> I didn't read all the threads. I just glanced at them... I'm speechless with the amount of deceit you endured... How could your ex wife change so much!? Just shows that you never really know someone.
> Thank you for sharing your story!


The more that time passes the more I realize that she didn't really change, I did.

I mean some of the behaviors that went overboard obviously she was not doing throughout our marriage. But the emotionally abusive situation was there the entire time. The only thing that really changed was my reaction to it and perception of it.

You can see that from my posts. I believed that I was at fault for so much stuff that wasn't mine. I accepted my boundaries shifting to appease her. I had completely given up my life. That stuff was present the entire time of our marriage.

What caused daily life to be unsustainable was when I stopped tolerating certain behaviors and started having clear boundaries. Then all of a sudden I became "too controlling." The dreaded C word.


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

COguy said:


> The more that time passes the more I realize that she didn't really change, I did.
> 
> I mean some of the behaviors that went overboard obviously she was not doing throughout our marriage. But the emotionally abusive situation was there the entire time. The only thing that really changed was my reaction to it and perception of it.
> 
> ...



The differences between the before and the after, are staggering! God doesn't give us more than we can bear. 

I am glad that you started to work on you and stopped that abusive relation. Your wife clearly has some major emotional problems going on. 

Gezz! We often think that cheating is a problem that affects almost exclusively women. It sure isn't the case, at all! There are many scummy women out there as well.

What shocks me the most in these stories is not the cheating per se but, the unwillingness to admit honestly it was wrong to cheat.


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