# Don't know what to call this but...AHHHHHHHHHHHHH



## Big Mama

I am in a bit of a predicament. My H and I have not gotten along for quite some time. Things go well some days and terrible other days. Some days I think I have got to get away from this. Then we will have a few good days and I think "ya know this is not so bad." This seems to be an endless cycle. It is driving me crazy, literally.

My H and I have been in T for 2 years and things have improved greatly, but things are starting to backslide. There are several things that concern me. I haven't worked in 17 years, I/we have 3 kids, and it has always been our agreement that I would stay at home until our last child no longer was so dependent on me. 

The other thing that concern me are superficial. They are just hard to walk away from. We have been married for 20 years, my H is a deacon in the church, our house is paid for, and we finally have the land like we have always dreamed. We stick built our new house 4 years ago. Our house and land are paid for. We have the perfect set up for the future, but there may be no future. 

Things just have not been good for a real long time and I am nt so sure I can stay. When things are good I can stay, but when things are like this I just can't stay. I don't know how I am gonna tell my H, I don't know how I will tell the kids, the church, my family. Man this is gonna be difficult. I don't know for sure I am doing the right thing. But I am pretty sure I am doing thr right thing. I struggle every day. He tries to convince me I am the problem, I am difficult to live with, that he gives me the world. I am the bad one. But that is so not true. And of course you have no reason to believe my opinion and how I see things. We all see our own side of the story. He has been so abusive in the past, verbally and emotionally. He belittles me, he power trips me, the kids dread when he comes home, and are happy when he leaves. I do know I am doing the right thing. It is just so hard to believe. 

My T is helping me find some decent lawyers. I plan on visiting a few in the coming weeks to find out which ones seem to meet my needs the best. In the mean time, I am just going to be hanging in here silently hoping I do not feel the need to escape before I get to talk t lawyers. 

I don't feel like I have the stregnth to live in the same house with him if things take a turn for the worse. I don't think I can stand up for my self against him. All I can do at the moment is hang tight and go off by my self and like an injured dog lick my own wounds. 

I don't know what to call this thread. I am seeking no help from you guys I suppose. I guess I mostly need support. Support form folks I have come to know in the past few months. Thank you for listening and taking the time to read this. 

By the way I do accept prayers from others. All I can pray for for myself is that the Lords will be done and that God will grant me the ability to accept his will.


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## PBear

You say you've been in "T" for a couple of years, and then your "T" is helping you find a good lawyer. Can you use words, instead of letters? Is that therapy/therapists? If so, is that joint or individual therapy?

How old is your youngest?

C


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## Philat

Assuming T = therapist, it sounds somewhat unethical to me for a therapist to help a client find a lawyer. Am I wrong?


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## Big Mama

PBear said:


> You say you've been in "T" for a couple of years, and then your "T" is helping you find a good lawyer. Can you use words, instead of letters? Is that therapy/therapists? If so, is that joint or individual therapy?
> 
> How old is your youngest?
> 
> C


It started out as marriage counseling. Then we discovered some things. My/our T( T=Therapist) specializes in trauma's. For the bulk of the time it has been Individual T (t= Therapy) for me and helping my H to deal with the challenges I was facing. But we have worked on marriage counseling stuff to. 

My youngest is 7. The older two are 14 and 16. It is the older two who have the biggest issues with there dad.


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## Big Mama

Philat said:


> Assuming T = therapist, it sounds somewhat unethical to me for a therapist to help a client find a lawyer. Am I wrong?


There are good family law practices. There are lawyers who are crooked and there are lawyers who generally care about people. My t is involved with the court system and sees lawyers who screw up families lives more then helping them. She is helping advise me on what lawyers are crooks and which ones care. Which ones are more likely to have a family's interest rather then a one sided interest. 

I don't know if that is unethical or not.


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## ladymisato

Big Mama said:


> I don't think I can stand up for my self against him.


It would be very sad if you chose divorce because you cannot otherwise stand up for yourself.

Why don't you learn to stand up for yourself first and then decide what to do about the marriage?


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## Big Mama

ladymisato - I wish it were that easy. I have a hard time standing up for my self especially while he constantly beats me down. Some times I think he has me where he wants me.


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## turnera

Of course he doesn't have you where he wants you. You're free to leave whenever you want.

It's very telling that a counselor would help you leave your husband.

Have you read this book?

I'd start with that.


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## WandaJ

ladymisato said:


> It would be very sad if you chose divorce because you cannot otherwise stand up for yourself.
> 
> Why don't you learn to stand up for yourself first and then decide what to do about the marriage?


I have a feeling that Big Mama is passed that and she already made a decision. After being walked over and belittled for twenty years it may just be enough. And he won't change even if he tries at the beginning. And whatever he tries, it is probably too little, too late now. 

I am in a little similar situation, I just haven't made my decision yet. my kids are younger, and my house is not paid for. I do work, but that's our family business, which makes things even more complicated.


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## Big Mama

turnera said:


> Of course he doesn't have you where he wants you. You're free to leave whenever you want.
> 
> It's very telling that a counselor would help you leave your husband.
> 
> Have you read this book?
> 
> I'd start with that.


That sounds like a very good book. I will have to see if the library has that one. 

It is telling that the counselor would help me leave? Is that telling in good way or a bad way. In a she is over stepping her bounds or in a she sees an issues and is helping.


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## turnera

Most counselors won't tell you what to do, or even urge you to do something, as it is putting their ideas in your head, and that's not their job. So if a counselor DOES work on something as big as leaving, it's because they've determined that it's necessary, either for your mental well-being or because of your safety.

In other words, your counselor AGREES that he won't change and you will never find happiness (or perhaps be safe) with him. When you read that book, you'll see that these men almost never change. It's nearly impossible. And I'll add that, psychologically speaking, people like your H who are having all their needs met (i.e., you're taking care of him, making sure he's happy) literally have NO REASON to change. I've seen it dozens and dozens of times - the ONLY time people do the hard work to change is when their support system (the enabler, which is you) takes away that support. Basically, if he wants you back badly enough, he'll really listen this time and do the hard work to go into long-term counseling, remove those habits and become a better person.

And, in the event that you leave and he STILL doesn't change, well, then you'll know that you really were just a convenience for him, and you'll be better off knowing that - away from him, so you can pursue your new life. Better than staying there and hoping for the next 30 years for a sign of a change, right?


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## turnera

ladymisato said:


> It would be very sad if you chose divorce because you cannot otherwise stand up for yourself.
> 
> Why don't you learn to stand up for yourself first and then decide what to do about the marriage?


That's easy to say if you haven't been living in a controlling environment. It wears you down. My H wasn't even overtly controlling, just small things like "What did YOU get done today?" Sounds innocuous, right? But to an untrained young woman, it was obvious I was being judged and found wanting. So I spent the next 30 years trying to show him that I was contributing. Even today, after years of therapy and learning it was ridiculous, when I hear him drive up, I jump up off the couch and shut the computer so he doesn't ever see me just relaxing. It's been drilled into me. Standing up for myself isn't that easy. Now, if I had moved to another home and spent some time on my own so I could see what 'normal' looks like, it would have been much easier to call him out on all those little controlling things that, back then, I wasn't sure if it really WAS me being a bad wife.

Which is where Big Mama finds herself.


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## ladymisato

Big Mama said:


> ladymisato - I wish it were that easy. I have a hard time standing up for my self especially while he constantly beats me down. Some times I think he has me where he wants me.


This is something you need to learn regardless of the turn your life takes. Why not learn it with him?

If he has you where he wants you it is only because you have chosen to be where he wants you.

You have a choice, learn to use it for something other than running away.

Learn to stand up to him. Get help learning that if you need it. Lots of wives have learned how to turn the tables on controlling husbands, you would not be the first.


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## Big Mama

turnera said:


> That's easy to say if you haven't been living in a controlling environment. It wears you down. My H wasn't even overtly controlling, just small things like "What did YOU get done today?" Sounds innocuous, right?
> 
> Even today, after years of therapy and learning it was ridiculous, when I hear him drive up, I jump up off the couch and shut the computer so he doesn't ever see me just relaxing. It's been drilled into me. Standing up for myself isn't that easy.
> 
> Which is where Big Mama finds herself.


Oh my goodness that sounds so much like me. I hear his truck and I panic, I hang up the phone or hope no one calls right before he gets home. I wouldn't dare be found on the phone when he gets home from a hard day at work. I flip off the TV and the computer, oh gosh, knowledge is power, you better believe that computer will not be on when he is home. That is the biggest no no of all. 

I am sorry you understand and know what I am talking about, it sounds like you know from experience. But it is quite helpful to know that I am not alone. Some one gets it, I'm not crazy. There is someone out there who actually understands. THANK YOU.


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## Big Mama

ladymisato said:


> This is something you need to learn regardless of the turn your life takes. Why not learn it with him?
> 
> If he has you where he wants you it is only because you have chosen to be where he wants you.
> 
> You have a choice, learn to use it for something other than running away.
> 
> Learn to stand up to him. Get help learning that if you need it. Lots of wives have learned how to turn the tables on controlling husbands, you would not be the first.


Firstly I have not herd of to many wives turning the tables on abuse. I will and learning to stand up for myself. But I have not been able to do it it 20 years of being married to this man. I don't see me being able to do it with him in the next 20. 

I am glad you don't know what this feels like. It feels horrible to have every ounce of self worth drained from you every day, every ounce of power, being told you are wrong all the time. Eventually you start to believe it. Why wouldn't you. The person who loves you the very most says you are wrong, lazy, sorry, and stupid, they must be saying it because it is true because they love you right. Then you begin to believe there lies. Then you become afraid to try, afraid to give a damn, it's not gonna do any good because you are lazy and sorry, right. You kind give up and you loose your self and you don't care. You don't matter to any one. How can you look that person in the face, that person who makes you believe that each and every day. Even harder how can you look the person you have become in the face each and every day knowing you have surrendered to someone and sold your soul to the person you thought cared but they didn't. That is just an idea of how I feel. Words don't explain how I really feel. Those words don't exist. Take what I have said and make it X 10 that is how I feel most days. 

Like telling an alcoholic to stop drinking it is that easy tell the abused to walk away from the abuser is about the same level of difficulty.


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## ladymisato

Big Mama said:


> Firstly I have not herd of to many wives turning the tables on abuse. I will and learning to stand up for myself. But I have not been able to do it it 20 years of being married to this man. I don't see me being able to do it with him in the next 20.


So the obvious question is why? What have you tried? In most cases I've seen, there was no trying, only lamenting. At some point the wife started to try (usually with support and encouragement from friends) and things changed.



> I am glad you don't know what this feels like. It feels horrible to have every ounce of self worth drained from you every day, every ounce of power, being told you are wrong all the time. Eventually you start to believe it. Why wouldn't you. The person who loves you the very most says you are wrong, lazy, sorry, and stupid, they must be saying it because it is true because they love you right. Then you begin to believe there lies. Then you become afraid to try, afraid to give a damn, it's not gonna do any good because you are lazy and sorry, right. You kind give up and you loose your self and you don't care. You don't matter to any one. How can you look that person in the face, that person who makes you believe that each and every day. Even harder how can you look the person you have become in the face each and every day knowing you have surrendered to someone and sold your soul to the person you thought cared but they didn't. That is just an idea of how I feel. Words don't explain how I really feel. Those words don't exist. Take what I have said and make it X 10 that is how I feel most days.


This is why it is so important to find friends who will help you see things differently and encourage you to stand up for yourself.



> Like telling an alcoholic to stop drinking it is that easy tell the abused to walk away from the abuser is about the same level of difficulty.


Of course, though, I'm not suggesting that you walk away, quite the opposite. My concern is that if you don't learn to stand up to him you are very likely to find yourself in the same situation again.


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## SpinDaddy

turnera said:


> That's easy to say if you haven't been living in a controlling environment. It wears you down. My H wasn't even overtly controlling, just small things like "What did YOU get done today?" Sounds innocuous, right? But to an untrained young woman, it was obvious I was being judged and found wanting. So I spent the next 30 years trying to show him that I was contributing. . . .


Meh, I hear that every day at work and have to document it weekly in a form we call “Billable Hours”.

Don’t confuse the American/Protestant work ethic with abuse. If all you “did” was text girlfriends and watch “E!” that is one thing. If all you did was feed the kids, get them to school, make dinner, pay some bills and kiss some boo-boos that is completely another.

I think that is where LadyM is trying to go. Don’t devalue the value of what you contribute to the team.


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## Big Mama

ladymisato - the reason I have stayed and I have yet to leave is not one knows. Not my family, not my few friends, not the people in my church. The counselor knows now, and the counselor I did have knows now. My silence has been ensured. He told me a long time ago, I had not ever EVER breathe a word to anyone about what goes on in this house. Only after we had intensive in home therapy did the T see that things here were not so good. At time she joked about calling the law and having them at the bottom of my driveway if she needed to tell my H something important. Just to make sure she and we were safe. 

I agree it is important to find friends and others who will encourage you to do the right thing. I am trying. Now one person in my church knows, and one other person in my community knows. Some of my H's family knows, and my T knows. 

Ad far as finding myself in this situation again, I sure hope not. I can work on me so much better and find out who I really and and what I am really made of with out being kicked like a dog every which way I turn. (mentally speaking)


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## Big Mama

SpinDaddy said:


> Meh, I hear that every day at work and have to document it weekly in a form we call “Billable Hours”.
> 
> Don’t confuse the American/Protestant work ethic with abuse. If all you “did” was text girlfriends and watch “E!” that is one thing. If all you did was feed the kids, get them to school, make dinner, pay some bills and kiss some boo-boos that is completely another.
> 
> I think that is where LadyM is trying to go. Don’t devalue the value of what you contribute to the team.


I'd like to hear what you have to say. I don't understand. Can you explain that a different way.


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## ladymisato

Big Mama said:


> ladymisato - the reason I have stayed and I have yet to leave is not one knows. Not my family, not my few friends, not the people in my church. The counselor knows now, and the counselor I did have knows now. My silence has been ensured. He told me a long time ago, I had not ever EVER breathe a word to anyone about what goes on in this house. Only after we had intensive in home therapy did the T see that things here were not so good. At time she joked about calling the law and having them at the bottom of my driveway if she needed to tell my H something important. Just to make sure she and we were safe.


If, as you are implying, there is a threat of violence then it is an entirely different situation than what I had understood from your previous posts. I never recommend staying in a situation where you are at risk, physically. My comments were directed toward the far more common situation of women who 'feel' controlled by their husband although there is no physical threat.

If I now understand correctly, your situation depends on his recognizing his bad behavior and choosing to change. I'm sure that your therapist will have the best advice in this situation. It doesn't make sense for us to guess without knowing more.

I wish you the best.


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## Big Mama

He has not put his hands on me as of yet. He hasn't pushed me in several years. He has shoved me several times in the past. Like 3 in 20 years. But he has raised his voice and made me ask him to move so I could get by, he has made it so I couldn't exit a room because he was blocking the door. I was to afraid to ask him to move, so I just stood there and slowly melted down and withered and cried because I was so fearful. To fearful to speak. But he never hit me. He also has "bumped" into me by "accident". He would tower over me and use his size to intimidate me. 

Threw T though to be fair he has stopped blocking door ways, he has stopped towering over me. So things are improving but when he makes the comments he does sometimes it reminds me that he could so easily go back to the way he was. That intimidation that he once had that he has been able to stop at the moment still scares me. I guess that is where I am going with this.


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## ladymisato

Big Mama said:


> He has not put his hands on me as of yet. He hasn't pushed me in several years. He has shoved me several times in the past. Like 3 in 20 years. But he has raised his voice and made me ask him to move so I could get by, he has made it so I couldn't exit a room because he was blocking the door. I was to afraid to ask him to move, so I just stood there and slowly melted down and withered and cried because I was so fearful. To fearful to speak. But he never hit me. He also has "bumped" into me by "accident". He would tower over me and use his size to intimidate me.
> 
> Threw T though to be fair he has stopped blocking door ways, he has stopped towering over me. So things are improving but when he makes the comments he does sometimes it reminds me that he could so easily go back to the way he was. That intimidation that he once had that he has been able to stop at the moment still scares me. I guess that is where I am going with this.


I'm glad to hear that it is not as bad as I had imagined after your previous post. Still, you are right to be fearful.

Has he indicated any willingness to acknowledge his misbehavior and seek help? Or is he simply better than he was before?


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## turnera

SpinDaddy said:


> Meh, I hear that every day at work and have to document it weekly in a form we call “Billable Hours”.
> 
> Don’t confuse the American/Protestant work ethic with abuse. If all you “did” was text girlfriends and watch “E!” that is one thing. If all you did was feed the kids, get them to school, make dinner, pay some bills and kiss some boo-boos that is completely another.
> 
> I think that is where LadyM is trying to go. Don’t devalue the value of what you contribute to the team.


Am I understanding you to say that my H was right in questioning what I "did" all day? When both he and I worked full-time jobs? When I worked side jobs in editing to help pay the bills and quit my one dream job because he didn't earn more and mine didn't pay enough? When I also took 12-15 hours of college every semester at night, did 98% of all housework, in addition to cooking, laundry, buying his clothes, keeping his clothes clean and pressed in his closet, paid the bills, made the appointments, making sure all his family received 'his' birthday and Christmas presents...should I go on? Oh, and don't forget raised our daughter myself because he was too busy to stop working. I never deserved to be asked what I did. Had I been wise enough, experienced enough, educated enough, I would have told him to take a flying leap. But I didn't. Thirty-five years later, I am finally learning to say no, to say what did YOU provide?


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## turnera

ladymisato said:


> If, as you are implying, there is a threat of violence then it is an entirely different situation than what I had understood from your previous posts. I never recommend staying in a situation where you are at risk, physically.


Read the book before you espouse whether one of "us" is in a bad enough situation to leave. Your ignorance is glaring. And insulting.


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## ladymisato

turnera said:


> Read the book before you espouse whether one of "us" is in a bad enough situation to leave. Your ignorance is glaring. And insulting.


Whether or not her husband is physically attacking or threatening her is an important and distinguishing fact. I am sorry if you feel insulted by that. As for "us", my questions and comments are directed only at the OP, this is her thread.


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## turnera

You are blatantly making assumptions that, as long as a man isn't PHYSICALLY threatening you, you should just stick it out, 'learn' how to deal with a mentally abusive man, and make the best of it.

And you would be wrong. There IS an us, because people who are in her position deal with the same issues. As I said, educate yourself before you tell one of 'us' to just hang in there and pretend you aren't being psychologically beat down.

The fact that you would say this


> Whether or not her husband is physically attacking or threatening her is an important and distinguishing fact.


proves you know nothing about mental abuse and how is it even more severely debilitating than physical abuse.


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## ladymisato

turnera said:


> There IS an us


I'm sorry that you feel the need to insert yourself into this. It's not my intention to comment on your circumstances and I can't help it if you feel that I am.


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## turnera

> I'm sorry that you feel the need to insert yourself into this.


When someone gives illogical and unrealistic and just plain bad advice to someone who is being abused, of course I will 'insert myself' into 'this.' If not for the OP, who seems to be finally understanding she has control, then for all the other abused women out there who are reading and wondering what to do. Following your advice can be harmful. There is no harm in just getting space from your abuser. You can always get back together after you've shown him you deserve respect and not to be abused.

As I've said repeatedly, there IS an US because all of us who have experienced mental abuse have experienced the same thing and we all feel insulted when someone minimizes mental abuse and tries to tell one of us 'oh, just figure out how to deal with it, you don't need to leave him, just get smarter.' When one of "you" says something like this, it behooves one of 'us' to try to help explain to the rest of 'you' what mental abuse DOES to people. It cripples us. It paralyzes us. It makes us doubt our own feelings and our ability to make decisions. It makes us feel that he must be right, since he so steadfastly tells us, over and over, that we're stupid, or incompetent, or just wrong. That we're lucky they 'keep' us because no one else would want us. 

As I said, if you haven't lived it, stop telling one of us to just deal with it, to just get smarter. It's insulting.


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## SpinDaddy

SpinDaddy said:


> Meh, I hear that every day at work and have to document it weekly in a form we call “Billable Hours”.
> 
> Don’t confuse the American/Protestant work ethic with abuse. If all you “did” was text girlfriends and watch “E!” that is one thing. If all you did was feed the kids, get them to school, make dinner, pay some bills and kiss some boo-boos that is completely another.
> 
> I think that is where LadyM is trying to go. Don’t devalue the value of what you contribute to the team.





Big Mama said:


> I'd like to hear what you have to say. I don't understand. Can you explain that a different way.





turnera said:


> Am I understanding you to say that my H was right in questioning what I "did" all day? When both he and I worked full-time jobs? When I worked side jobs in editing to help pay the bills and quit my one dream job because he didn't earn more and mine didn't pay enough? When I also took 12-15 hours of college every semester at night, did 98% of all housework, in addition to cooking, laundry, buying his clothes, keeping his clothes clean and pressed in his closet, paid the bills, made the appointments, making sure all his family received 'his' birthday and Christmas presents...should I go on? Oh, and don't forget raised our daughter myself because he was too busy to stop working. I never deserved to be asked what I did. Had I been wise enough, experienced enough, educated enough, I would have told him to take a flying leap. But I didn't. Thirty-five years later, I am finally learning to say no, to say what did YOU provide?


So . . . . Big Mama “What did you do today” is not/should not be self-imposed means of control and judgment but rather a common base line in how normal people discuss their day. At the Spin house, its dinner time discussion not just between Ms. Spin and myself but also in and amongst the Spin children. 

No one in our household should feel belittled, embarrassed or otherwise demeaned. We all have roles and duties in the family and each role is equally important. Somebody has to bring money to the team, someone has to run and coach the team and some need to go to school and do their best. If you are doing your best you should never be embarrassed of what it is that you bring to the team and you should never let anyone make you feel otherwise.

With regard to Turnera’s reply, all I can say is Big Mama, stand up for yourself now or become Turnera in 35-years. Although, I think there are even bigger fundamental trust issues between you and yours – I don’t know that I’d contemplate trying to work things out with someone who was abusive to my children in the ways your posts have described.


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## turnera

SpinDaddy said:


> So . . . . Big Mama “What did you do today” is not/should not be self-imposed means of control and judgment but rather a common base line in how normal people discuss their day. At the Spin house, its dinner time discussion not just between Ms. Spin and myself but also in and amongst the Spin children.


Of course it should be. But in a house with an abuser, it isn't. It almost never is. It is what the abuser says to make the victim defensive, and self-loathing, and walking on eggshells to avoid the next look or words or sigh or silent treatment.


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## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> Of course it should be. But in a house with an abuser, it isn't. It almost never is. It is what the abuser says to make the victim defensive, and self-loathing, and walking on eggshells to avoid the next look or words or sigh or silent treatment.


It can create a FOG that is very hard to side step. I for one prefer to tell someone HOW to side step that fog instead of just saying "you need to side step that abuse."


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## turnera

All I know is that, of all the women I've dealt with who've been abused - and I know a LOT - the only ones who've been able to change the dynamics for the better - and even keep the marriage in some cases - are the ones who first left the toxic environment, let that fog clear, and then saw that they were being manipulated and that they were NOT the evil, stupid, rude, dumb, worthless, ugly or whatever person their abusive husband has been telling them, which they've come to believe.

Getting out of that daily stress is what allows women to stop believing that they are the problem, that the husband must be right and it must be the woman messing everything up. Hearing that or seeing the other ways women are pushed down constantly is what keeps women from believing they don't deserve it. 

So again I say, get out of the house, see what OTHER people live like, see what your relative's healthy marriage looks like, or your friend's, so you can compare how you've been treated to what it SHOULD be. And THEN tell your husband what you'd like to have in y'all's marriage and work together to remove the abuse and learn how to have a healthy marriage. Staying away from him helps show him that you must be respected first, and then you can work on getting a healthy equal marriage. 

But in all my years, I have NEVER seen a mentally abusive man just up and decide to stop being abusive while the wife is still there, accepting it. I've seen such women make microscopic changes, such as leaving a room if he won't stop, but I haven't seen the men go to counseling and get help, or stop the hurtful actions, if she's still there. It's basic psychology - he has no reason to, because she's still meeting his needs by being there.


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## Big Mama

Thank you all for your most helpful response. Ladymisato and Turnera I would like to add "likes" to some of your responses because I do like what you have had to say but in order to avoid backlash and further ill feelings between you guys and backlash wrongly pointed at me I will simply avoid doing that. 

I do want to answer SpinDaddy's Question. What do I do all day. Where do I contribute. Well my H goes to work and brings home money and my day begins and there will be no money for me. I get the kids off to school. This is the first yer I have not been home schooling my 11th grader. So that is a very nice break. But I clean the house. I keep in touch with my husbands family. I call his grandmother each week, and call his mom from time to time, and send letters to his aunts and such because family ties are to important to let fall by the wayside. Of'course I do the regular mommy stuff, laundry, dishes, vacuum, help pick up kids rooms, and the regular daily house hold stuff, make the bed, put away all the DVD's and dust the furniture, mop the floors. (Hummm I feel kinda like Cinderella already just typing that) At 2:30 my youngest comes home. I go threw her back pack, check her daily news and praise her for all the good work she has done at school when she brings home math papers and art work and such. Then I fix her a snack before her bothers get home at 4:00. At 4 I do the same with them. How was your day, is there anything you need for school this week, what as for lunch? Get them a snack. Then it is on to supper. I do home cooked type suppers. So it takes about an hour to an hour and a half to prepare that. Then my H comes home from work with supper ready and waiting for him. He is the bread winner and It is important that he have his food ready and waiting for his arrival. In 30 min or less that meal is gone and then I have all the mess to clean up. I spend the next hour cleaning up from where I cooked and meeting my H's OCD demands. Floors wept (even if I just swept an hour before he got home and we don't eat inside to get food on the floor) , cabinets wiped off, table wiped off, (even if we didn't use it because we eat outside most of the time), all dished in dish washer and things that don't fit get washed by hand. Throw in Mom having to run kids to girl scouts, basketball practice, away games, music lessons, church, groceries, doctors and dentist. Then there is my parents, my grand parents and sister. I need to maintain relationships with as well and visit from time to time, think goodness they all only live a few miles away.


Then on to home work for the little one. Check on the big one's home work, and then bath time. Story time and bed time to follow. One down two to go. Then it is study with the big ones, help them decide if this shirt goes with those pants, what shoes do I wear, I need money for SADD club next week, can you fill this out kinda stuff. By 9:30 they are off to bed. One more left, Hubby. Is he done exercising and can he talk to me. OR is he still on the phone making business calls. Most of the time he is waiting angrily in bed because I have given him minimal attention or wanting to know CAN WE DO IT? No, no,no. Don't help me clean. Don't help me with the kids, Don't give a damn about anything but your self. NO!!! So I at least I talk to him and try to be pleasant until he goes to sleep. Often He chooses to look at face book while I am trying to be relational. So I give up. He falls asleep and then the night is mine. I took care of the house and the kids and the H all day and half the evening. So I get the computer or watch some TV in order to wind down. At mid night I go to bed and start again the next day. I won't even get into Saturdays and Sundays. It is even more hectic then the regular day. 

When someone comes home and asks "Did you did anything today" I wanna scream. I don't get paid, I don't get so much as a thank you. Instead I get a nice "When are you gonna get the clothes folded" or "man the fridge could use cleaning" or "Did you vacuum today" or "Why don't you get them lazy kids to help you clean" or "Tell them sorry boys to get off there asses and help do the dishes" and he walks away. I wouldn't subject my kids to his anger by asking them to help in the kitchen. It is not gonna be done right and he will yell at them and I will be there protector. It makes them feel bad and it puts me in a tough spot to. So I do it all myself. That way when someone gets yell at it is me, not the poor kid that was trying to help.


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## turnera

Is he angry all the time? How would he handle you handing him a rag to help you when he tells you to wipe down the counters?


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## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> All I know is that, of all the women I've dealt with who've been abused - and I know a LOT - the only ones who've been able to change the dynamics for the better - and even keep the marriage in some cases - are the ones who first left the toxic environment, let that fog clear, and then saw that they were being manipulated and that they were NOT the evil, stupid, rude, dumb, worthless, ugly or whatever person their abusive husband has been telling them, which they've come to believe.
> 
> Getting out of that daily stress is what allows women to stop believing that they are the problem, that the husband must be right and it must be the woman messing everything up. Hearing that or seeing the other ways women are pushed down constantly is what keeps women from believing they don't deserve it.
> 
> So again I say, get out of the house, see what OTHER people live like, see what your relative's healthy marriage looks like, or your friend's, so you can compare how you've been treated to what it SHOULD be. And THEN tell your husband what you'd like to have in y'all's marriage and work together to remove the abuse and learn how to have a healthy marriage. Staying away from him helps show him that you must be respected first, and then you can work on getting a healthy equal marriage.
> 
> But in all my years, I have NEVER seen a mentally abusive man just up and decide to stop being abusive while the wife is still there, accepting it. I've seen such women make microscopic changes, such as leaving a room if he won't stop, but I haven't seen the men go to counseling and get help, or stop the hurtful actions, if she's still there. It's basic psychology - he has no reason to, because she's still meeting his needs by being there.


Totally agree


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## Big Mama

turnera said:


> Is he angry all the time? How would he handle you handing him a rag to help you when he tells you to wipe down the counters?


You made me laugh. I don;t think it was in a good way though. Sorry. 

Ask him to help, ummmm NO WAY!!! We don't do that here. He says jump and I say how high. I have told him on days I feel brave, to help me mop the floor if he wants it done so bad.Then he tells me "I work all day, I'm not coming home and doing your job to. On the rare occasions he does help he rubs my face in it. You should be grateful, my dad never helped my mom clean the house. (By the time my H's dad got home from work he was so drunk he couldn't stand up long enough to help clean the house) or You know if you did it right the first time it wouldn't take near as long for me to go behind you and do it the way it should have been done in the first place. Or he will make us late for church by his OCD cleaning and it is my fault we are late and made the family look bad because I didn't do it right the first time. 

I am far to afraid to ask him to actually help me. I know my place. You don't dare challenge his authority. I know he won't hit me, but his words will hurt far more and for far longer then any slap. He seems to think he has gotten his point across only after he belittles you and has completely broken you down and made you cry. That way you will remember who you are and what your job is and will not question your position. I must say it works. Gotta give him that much. It works and he never ever had to put a hand on me. But the emotional damage never fades as quickly as a bruise. Sometimes it is forever.


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## Blossom Leigh

Big Mama said:


> You made me laugh. I don;t think it was in a good way though. Sorry.
> 
> Ask him to help, ummmm NO WAY!!! We don't do that here. He says jump and I say how high. I have told him on days I feel brave, to help me mop the floor if he wants it done so bad.Then he tells me "I work all day, I'm not coming home and doing your job to. On the rare occasions he does help he rubs my face in it. You should be grateful, my dad never helped my mom clean the house. (By the time my H's dad got home from work he was so drunk he couldn't stand up long enough to help clean the house) or You know if you did it right the first time it wouldn't take near as long for me to go behind you and do it the way it should have been done in the first place. Or he will make us late for church by his OCD cleaning and it is my fault we are late and made the family look bad because I didn't do it right the first time.
> 
> I am far to afraid to ask him to actually help me. I know my place. You don't dare challenge his authority. I know he won't hit me, but his words will hurt far more and for far longer then any slap. He seems to think he has gotten his point across only after he belittles you and has completely broken you down and made you cry. That way you will remember who you are and what your job is and will not question your position. I must say it works. Gotta give him that much. It works and he never ever had to put a hand on me. But the emotional damage never fades as quickly as a bruise. Sometimes it is forever.


So sorry for your pain Big Mama. He sounds like a brick wall. I know how discouraging that is  If you are weary, I would separate.


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## ladymisato

Big Mama said:


> I wouldn't subject my kids to his anger by asking them to help in the kitchen. It is not gonna be done right and he will yell at them and I will be there protector. It makes them feel bad and it puts me in a tough spot to. So I do it all myself. That way when someone gets yell at it is me, not the poor kid that was trying to help.


You are a genuine saint. I think the hard question to consider is whether you are enabling his OCD by your compliance.

This is complicated by the implicit physical threat that you feel you face. For all my disagreement with turnera it might well be that she is right about one thing: you may need to separate in order to improve the marriage. I say that with great reservation because so often that becomes a prelude to divorce. If you take that step you need to be clear with him about what you expect before you return. Ideally, you would ask him to leave the home but that may not be practical.

However, if you do not feel safe standing up to him, or even disappointing his domestic expectations, and if he is unwilling to change otherwise, that may be necessary.

The ideal solution would be one where you stay and learn to stand up to him but given your concerns about your physical safety that might not be the best choice.

If there is any chance that you could persuade him to attend anger management that might create enough safety for you. And if you can keep those around you informed about your concerns, and let him know that you have, it will be harder for him to exercise violence in the home. That might also give you more confidence.


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## Big Mama

He is not angry all the time. That is what makes it so hard. When he is nice he is very nice. As a person he is a great guy. But as someone you have to share your life with and your days and nights with, he is not such a great guy. I go back and forth mentally do I stay or do I go. Thinking this is not so bad, I can live with this, I am over reacting.

In March of this year, 6 months ago, my H and I separated for a month. He lived in a hotel 30 miles away. While he was gone I began to feel like a PERSON. I realized I was not crazy, I could do it, Life was good. He returned home after month. His first words were "Well are you ready to get close to me now" I told him NO, I am not ready to hop in the bed with you and all is fine. He agreed he had been gone for a month, He'd give me a week to adjust, that should be enough time. Then I was to come to him and we were to resume all marriage practices. The first few weeks went OK, then little by little he has went back to his old ways. 

When I asked him what did he miss while he was gone. His answer was he missed his naps. He couldn't nap on weekends because he had the kids. He didn't like the drive to meet me with the kids and to pick up kids. He didn't have to cook for himself because he went out to eat every night. That got expensive, so it kinda sucked. It took him a while to figure out how to wash clothes at the laundromat. He did buy just enough to items to pack his lunch with. (That was not a very good depiction of how much food for 5 cost though) When I asked him what did he miss he complained. He didn't tell me what he missed. Every now and again he will throw in a rude comment about when he was not here and all the stuff that needs to be done that has put him behind. Mulching, Cloroxing the gutters, pressure washing the patio. 

That month helped me so much. I think 6 months away would be a very good learning experience. If a month made him angry what will the suggestion of 6 months do. I know what he will say. It is what he always says "This benefits you, how does it help me. What about me, everything is always about you.What am I supposed to do, just set around here and wait. 

What would the right answer be to that. Yes wait, or DON'T WAIT, what ever. I can't imagine me saying that to him.


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## Big Mama

Blossom Leigh said:


> So sorry for your pain Big Mama. He sounds like a brick wall. I know how discouraging that is  If you are weary, I would separate.


Some days I take my humor where I can find it. Guess what he does for a living, he is a BRICK LAYER. :lol: oh well at least I can still laugh. I couldn't do that 3 days ago.


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## ladymisato

Big Mama said:


> In March of this year, 6 months ago, my H and I separated for a month. He lived in a hotel 30 miles away. While he was gone I began to feel like a PERSON. ...
> 
> That month helped me so much. I think 6 months away would be a very good learning experience. If a month made him angry what will the suggestion of 6 months do. I know what he will say. It is what he always says "This benefits you, how does it help me. What about me, everything is always about you.What am I supposed to do, just set around here and wait.
> 
> What would the right answer be to that. Yes wait, or DON'T WAIT, what ever. I can't imagine me saying that to him.


Thank you for sharing this. It answered some important questions. 

Clearly you were strengthened by the experience. That's more than half the battle. Building up your own courage and confidence is very, very important.

I think also you demonstrated that you can tell him to leave. You have at least that authority in the home. He may not like it but he did what you asked.

Now he didn't seem to learn anything from it. Or maybe he did but didn't want to admit it. But if this is a card that you can play you can send him out of the house when he misbehaves. It might not sink in at first but perhaps eventually it will. In the mean time, it strengthens you.

Has he ever admitted to an anger problem? Is there any chance of persuading him to seek professional help?


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## Big Mama

ladymisato said:


> You are a genuine saint. I think the hard question to consider is whether you are enabling his OCD by your compliance.
> 
> This is complicated by the implicit physical threat that you feel you face. For all my disagreement with turnera it might well be that she is right about one thing: you may need to separate in order to improve the marriage. I say that with great reservation because so often that becomes a prelude to divorce. If you take that step you need to be clear with him about what you expect before you return. Ideally, you would ask him to leave the home but that may not be practical.
> 
> However, if you do not feel safe standing up to him, or even disappointing his domestic expectations, and if he is unwilling to change otherwise, that may be necessary.
> 
> The ideal solution would be one where you stay and learn to stand up to him but given your concerns about your physical safety that might not be the best choice.
> 
> If there is any chance that you could persuade him to attend anger management that might create enough safety for you. And if you can keep those around you informed about your concerns, and let him know that you have, it will be harder for him to exercise violence in the home. That might also give you more confidence.




I have been advised against anger management by a former T because he would be subject to folks who have done far worse then he has, and there is lot of story telling about how to cover that kind of stuff up. There is a general anger towards women folk and he doesn't need someone elses anger rubbing off on him. 

Even if I were to disagree and say that it is necessary, I don't think he would go. Because everyone knows he does no wrong and the things I say are one sided and can't possible be true. That would be admitting there is a problem.

My H also has aspurgers. I don;t want to stir up any one who has this form of autism. But it does exist and it is a disorder that makes one appear very self serving. Folks with this often miss social ques simply are not Capablanca of thinking of others. It is often appears as a very narcissistic type of issue. It is not. Please don't get me wrong, I am not knocking those who have aspurgers, My H and my son both have it. And like any mother, I love my son regardless of the fact that he has this to. 

That makes it extra hard to draw the line. At what point does my H understand what he is doing, and how much leeway does that give him to treat me as he see fit. Which of these traits are aspurgers and which are simply ass whole. That is what I need to figure out. 

My H has stayed with me regardless of my past issues. (Rape and CSA) What kind of low life would I be to leave him because I can't live with his issues.


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## Blossom Leigh

Big Mama said:


> Some days I take my humor where I can find it. Guess what he does for a living, he is a BRICK LAYER. :lol: oh well at least I can still laugh. I couldn't do that 3 days ago.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## turnera

Mama, he will never change until you give him no choice.

Read Why Does He Do That, read every website you can find about emotional abuse, and start making plans to leave. If he really loves you - and you aren't just his convenience - he will come to respect that you matter, too. My H isn't a bad man. When he's good, he's really good, too. Lots of great qualities, which is why I never just left. But the controlling, the mental crap has eroded my love for him. Nowadays I just wish he'd never come home. He, on the other hand, is fine because I never stopped meeting his needs. 

Anyway, until you can leave (do not tell him you're planning to leave, just start getting hold of money and making plans), you can do one of two things. If you think he can tolerate it, start picking some teeny tiny battles and taking a stand. For instance, if he comes home and tells you to sweep (again), say 'No, I already swept, I have too many other things to do' and leave the room to go help your kids with homework or do dishes or something. I know it's scary, but it's the only way things will change while you're there. Tiny things that shouldn't be big enough for him to blow up at you (Seriously, I already swept once today, you expect me to sweep AGAIN? Uh, no.). Or if a child is young enough, bring the child from the tub in a towel to him, hand him the kid's pajamas and underwear, and ask him to help get the child dressed for bed. And then you go off and do something else. What's he going to say, 'no, I don't do housework'? I hope not, not in front of the kid. Pick small things like that. They may seem miniscule, but I PROMISE you, the psychological strength you will get from just taking that tiny stand will help you more than you realize. The first time I dumped a pile of towels on the couch by my husband and said 'honey, I'm busy; will you fold these?', I was literally shaking in fear. He just said sure and folded them. These things are magnified in our minds many times over based on past experience.

If you think he'll get worse, though, and try to punish you for daring to have a brain, just stay mum and keep working on getting out. Only you know what you're dealing with.

And btw, let me reiterate. I'm not telling you to prepare to leave to divorce him. He seems a lot like my H and if I were to finally push for it by moving out, he'd move heaven and earth to THEN get help to stop being how he is. He just won't while I'm here. He has no reason to.


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## ladymisato

Big Mama said:


> I have been advised against anger management by a former T because he would be subject to folks who have done far worse then he has, and there is lot of story telling about how to cover that kind of stuff up. There is a general anger towards women folk and he doesn't need someone elses anger rubbing off on him.


What about 1:1 with a therapist?



> Even if I were to disagree and say that it is necessary, I don't think he would go. Because everyone knows he does no wrong and the things I say are one sided and can't possible be true. That would be admitting there is a problem.


Yes, that is a problem and probably answers my question.



> My H also has aspurgers. I don;t want to stir up any one who has this form of autism. But it does exist and it is a disorder that makes one appear very self serving. Folks with this often miss social ques simply are not Capablanca of thinking of others. It is often appears as a very narcissistic type of issue. It is not. Please don't get me wrong, I am not knocking those who have aspurgers, My H and my son both have it. And like any mother, I love my son regardless of the fact that he has this to.
> 
> That makes it extra hard to draw the line. At what point does my H understand what he is doing, and how much leeway does that give him to treat me as he see fit. Which of these traits are aspurgers and which are simply ass whole. That is what I need to figure out.


Alright, what if. What if you accepted that he's going to say inappropriate things that other husband would also think but keep to themselves? What if you took on the role of correcting him and ignoring his protests?

I am really hesitant about posing this question but could it be that he is not truly violent but merely acting out? If that were so then you could confidently stand up to him, bear his verbal abuse, without worrying about his actually harming you physically. 

How far have you pushed him in the past? Does he rise to a breaking point or just get very noisy?



> My H has stayed with me regardless of my past issues. (Rape and CSA) What kind of low life would I be to leave him because I can't live with his issues.


It's not my impression that he is a bad person. My heart is warmed by your sincerity and I wish others with much easier problems could learn from you.


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## WandaJ

I am with you BigMama. Leaving him is your best option. He won't change, your life will never be peaceful with him. you will always be on the lookout when his good mood changed, and things crumble back to normal. Run, give yourself a normal, respectful life.


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## Big Mama

Just a quick update. I went to T this week and we talked about things some more. I have the names of 2 lawyers who practice family law and are fair and unbiased. Which is all I was really looking for. I will start looking for places for me and the kids to move to or places for my H to move to. We both want to be close to home for the sake of the kids. 

I feel very guilty, and like I am lying to my H when he ask "So how are we" and I say "fine." But I know it is for the best at the moment. I just wish I didn't feel so guilty and like I m the one taking advantage of the situation. I don;t usually do anything to stand up for my self and certainly never anything on purpose that I know will make my H angry with me.


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## turnera

Just keep telling yourself that you didn't marry someone just to be abused. Just because you're a woman and not as aggressive as him doesn't mean you can become his verbal punching bag. Also remind yourself that he doesn't treat everyone like this, just so - so has HAD a choice all this time - and he chose to hurt you. So you're not doing this out of any other reason than what he did. This is all HIS consequence for his own choices.


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## Big Mama

Turnera - Thank you for your encouraging words. I need all the encouragement I can get, because I feel weak as hell. Thank you again.


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## Blossom Leigh

Big Mama said:


> Turnera - Thank you for your encouraging words. I need all the encouragement I can get, because I feel weak as hell. Thank you again.



HUGS!!

I hate that feeling...


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## WandaJ

ladymisato said:


> I'm glad to hear that it is not as bad as I had imagined after your previous post. Still, you are right to be fearful.
> 
> Has he indicated any willingness to acknowledge his misbehavior and seek help? Or is he simply better than he was before?


ladymisato, this guy is beyond repair. People do not change that much. he may try, a little more at the beginning, then slowly he will slip in teh old habits. She will always be scared, lonely, and worried when the next outburst will come. This is not a way to live your life.

big Mama, run.


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## Mr Blunt

Big Mama, here below is a quick partial recap of your posts:

You and your husband were in therapy for two years and things improved greatly but now he is starting to backslide. By backsliding you are referring to your husband hurting you with words; not complimenting you and sometimes putting you down with words and dominating you.

He is a deacon in the church and has provided very well for you materially.

You do not feel that you can learn to stand up to him

You know that he will not hit you but his words hurt you more.

You separated for a month and he asked if you were ready to get close to him and you said no. Husband then cuts you by saying that what he missed when he was away for a month is his naps.

You husband has stayed with you through your issues of Rape and CSA (What is CSA?)

Your husband is not angry all the time. When he is nice he is very nice. As a person he is a great guy.

If I left out important information then please inform.






*It seems that you have been somewhat of a door mat in your relationship with your husband from the first year of marriage.* You have already stated that you do not feel that you can change this door mat position so I am not going to change your mind. 

You both were in therapy for two years and things “improved greatly” but then your husband started going back to hurting you with his words but you stated that you know that he will never hit you. You separated for a month but when you two got back together neither of you showed any affection for each other but both cut each other with words


We only have your side of the story and I am convinced that you are telling us exactly the way you see it. We do not have the luxury of hearing from your husband but you were very honest and told us that your husband stayed with you through some very tough times (Rape and CSA) and that he is not angry all the time and is sometimes a very nice man.


I have no doubt that you are emotionally beaten down and that your husband has contributed to that. He is a deacon and apparently does not follow too closely to Christian doctrine on marital love as described by First Corinthians 13 and Ephesians 5. He does get credit for providing well for you materially and for standing by you in your dark days with your rape and CSA.


However, it seems that what you are starving for is a lot of appreciation, validation, and affection from your husband and according to pour posts he has failed miserably at that

One thing did stick out to me and that was that you did stand up to him when he asks if you were ready to get close to him after being apart for one month. You stood up to him and stated that 

*



“I told him NO, I am not ready to hop in the bed with you and all is fine.”

Click to expand...

*That tells me that you are not a complete door mat and can stand up to him sometimes. I think that you are a beaten down woman that is a good woman but you have some issues of your own that your husband may not be responsible for. I am no expert but I have read the experts and they say that a rape can really affect a woman’s attitudes, views, and ability to give proper sex in a marriage. I do not know if any of that fits you but my guess is that you do have some issues that have contributed to the misery that you have in your marriage. I think that it would be encouraging for you to find out where you can improve yourself so that you can get the right help for you to get better.


I am not telling you to stay in your marriage because you pretty much have let it be known that you have made up your mind to leave and know that it is right. However, if you get better with your issues then you will be happier even with a divorce than you would be in a divorce without improving. This misery on your marriage cannot be all your husband’s fault can it?


You seem like a very nice honest woman that is in a lot of pain. However, you posted your thread and that means that you have invited our thoughts and the above are mine at this time. I maybe wrong but I tell t like I see it and that is why my name is Mr. Blunt.

I know that you need empathy from the posters and I can see that some of the women are doing a great job of that. I wished that I was as good at empathy as some of those women but I am a man and man that is mostly interested in a solution to at least a few of the issues. All I can do is give you how I see it and you can determine if it fits you or not. I do not want to offend you but if I do just remember that you can ignore my post and know that it will be totally forgotten in a very short time


Blunt


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## turnera

Mr. Blunt, first, you will notice that I have repeatedly told her to leave SO THAT she can heal and then work at her marriage from a position of equality. I don't know how much you know about mental abuse, but the statistics are that the woman can almost NEVER achieve such a level of parity while living with the abuser.

And second, I take umbrage at your description of her situation. You say that she is merely dealing with:


> not complimenting you and *sometimes* putting you down with words and dominating you.


I have to say I have rarely seen a man so directly make light of what an abuse victim 'suffers.' "What's the big deal? I just criticize you a little. So what if I call you the C word? You're my wife, it's my right. Buck up, you're being weak! You shouldn't let it bother you that I call you lazy. You are, aren't you? You deserve to be called overdramatic, look at you, you're crying all the time. I should just kick you out and get a better wife."

sheesh


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## ladymisato

WandaJ said:


> ladymisato, this guy is beyond repair. People do not change that much. he may try, a little more at the beginning, then slowly he will slip in teh old habits. She will always be scared, lonely, and worried when the next outburst will come. This is not a way to live your life.


Here is how that conversation usually goes:

"Why don't you change him?"

"People do not change that much."

"Why did you marry him?"

"He wasn't like this when we got married."

"What happened?"

"He changed."

"Oh!"


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## Blossom Leigh

I feel human development is progressive but two things must be considered...

Do they have the capacity and willingness to grow

AND

Which direction is it headed in constructive or destructive

That is the only framework with which a person can choose to partner with someone... conciously

If a person has the capacity and willingness to grow and it is construction, I will partner with them. If it's not in that vein I don't.


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## Mr Blunt

Turnera

You stated



> I have to say I have rarely seen a man so directly make light of what an abuse victim 'suffers.'



*My post was not a post that was focused on “…what an abuse victim 'suffers.'”*

My post was mostly focused on Big Mama finding out where she can improve herself so that she can get the right help to get better. If she does that then she will get better if she stays in the marriage or gets a D.


As I have said in my previous post you women are much better than I am at empathy with what the abuse victim suffers so I did not focus on that.


Your (“umbrage”) indignation and resentment of me for not going into detail about what Big Mama suffers ignores my words. Did you not read my first sentence where I said?



> Big Mama, here below is a *quick partial recap* of your posts


Yes I said a “PARTIAL QUICK RECAP.” Those words and the fact that I admitted that I was not as good as you women with the empathy part should have made it clear to you that I was not going to go into detail about Big Mama’s suffering. I was focused on possible actions that could help Big Mama. I was not going into detail on how much she is suffering; she probably already knows that. 

Big Mama seems to have indicated that she can not do much to change her husband so I was trying to encourage her to find out where she can improve herself so that she can get better. Going into more detail about how much she is suffering will not get her better in the long run, will it?

Rather than you judge my posts with your “umbrage” indignation, why not continue to address Big Mama with what can help her. It is not going to help Big Mama much even if you do succeed in convincing her that I did not go into detail about her suffering. You concluded your post with your resentment judgment of my post with a “Sheesh”. 

* You judging my post is not going to help Big Mama that much.*


----------



## turnera

I'm not judging your post. I'm judging your male-centric, non-educated-on-abuse view that if she had a problem she should have just solved it.



> I have no doubt that you are emotionally beaten down and that your husband has contributed to that.


Who ELSE contributed to it? Talk about minimizing and blameshifting.



> I think that you are a beaten down woman that is a good woman but you have some issues of your own that your husband may not be responsible for. I am no expert but I have read the experts and they say that a rape can really affect a woman’s attitudes, views, and *ability to give proper sex in a marriage*. I do not know if any of that fits you but my guess is that you do have some issues that have contributed to the misery that you have in your marriage.


Ah, so we get to the real issue. The one that is brought up again and again for abuse victims - if you'd just be a better wife, give more sex - no, _PROPER _sex, he wouldn't be treating you this way.



> I am a man and man that is mostly interested in a solution to at least a few of the issues.


I also am interested in a solution. Which is why I used my 15 years of experience dealing with abuse victims to tell her that she will be unable to effect a change in her marriage while staying there. And that experience also informs me to call out people when they do what most people who are unfamiliar with abuse do - blame the victim. Which is what you have just done.

Is she a saint? Of course not, no one said she was. What she IS is a person who's spent decades being told she's worthless, defective, THE problem. You try living for decades with a person who continuously finds fault with you, finds your weaknesses, 
and systematically degrades your ability to believe in yourself and your thoughts and your worth. Then come back in 20 years and tell us how easy it is to just say 'this stops now.'

And while we're on the subject, just how is she supposed to get it to stop? By being a better person and giving PROPER sex? If she turns into his sex kitten, will he then stop criticizing her? It didn't happen before. 

If she wants him to change and fix her marriage, she first has to get mental help to learn her self worth again. And according to all the experts, it's about 98% impossible to do that under the same roof. Those who do stay, typically get strong enough to see their worth, and then leave anyway, because the man has chosen not to change. The only difference is that she then sees she doesn't have to accept being abused.

But if she wants to fix the marriage, she can do so from another home, without enduring the abuse, learning to believe in herself again, learning she can survive alone, while he in turn learns that she is to be valued and respected, if he wants to get to keep dating her. And by doing so, she may see him change and get back together with him. Win/win for both of them. But it will never happen if all she does is figure out what SHE is doing wrong. She's already getting plenty of advice on that.


----------



## Big Mama

Mr Blunt said:


> Big Mama, here below is a quick partial recap of your posts:
> 
> You and your husband were in therapy for two years and things improved greatly but now he is starting to backslide. By backsliding you are referring to your husband hurting you with words; not complimenting you and sometimes putting you down with words and dominating you.
> 
> He is a deacon in the church and has provided very well for you materially.
> 
> You do not feel that you can learn to stand up to him
> 
> You know that he will not hit you but his words hurt you more.
> 
> You separated for a month and he asked if you were ready to get close to him and you said no. Husband then cuts you by saying that what he missed when he was away for a month is his naps.
> 
> You husband has stayed with you through your issues of Rape and CSA (What is CSA?)
> 
> Your husband is not angry all the time. When he is nice he is very nice. As a person he is a great guy.
> 
> If I left out important information then please inform.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *It seems that you have been somewhat of a door mat in your relationship with your husband from the first year of marriage.* You have already stated that you do not feel that you can change this door mat position so I am not going to change your mind.
> 
> You both were in therapy for two years and things “improved greatly” but then your husband started going back to hurting you with his words but you stated that you know that he will never hit you. You separated for a month but when you two got back together neither of you showed any affection for each other but both cut each other with words
> 
> 
> We only have your side of the story and I am convinced that you are telling us exactly the way you see it. We do not have the luxury of hearing from your husband but you were very honest and told us that your husband stayed with you through some very tough times (Rape and CSA) and that he is not angry all the time and is sometimes a very nice man.
> 
> 
> I have no doubt that you are emotionally beaten down and that your husband
> 
> 
> however, it seems that what you are starving for is a lot of appreciation, validation, and affection from your husband and according to your posts he has failed miserably at that
> 
> 
> I am no expert but I have read the experts and they say that a rape can really affect a woman’s attitudes, views, and ability to give proper sex in a marriage. I do not know if any of that fits you but my guess is that you do have some issues that have contributed to the misery that you have in your marriage. I think that it would be encouraging for you to find out where you can improve yourself so that you can get the right help for you to get better.
> 
> You posted your thread and that means that you have invited our thoughts and the above are mine at this time. I maybe wrong but I tell t like I see it and that is why my name is Mr. Blunt.
> 
> All I can do is give you how I see it and you can determine if it fits you or not. I do not want to offend you but if I do just remember that you can ignore my post and know that it will be totally forgotten in a very short time
> 
> 
> Blunt[/COLOR]


first things first. I am answering folks in the order that responses were received. 

Correct, correct, and more correct. Your recap of the story is correct. Good listening. 

Your first question is what is CSA? Child sexual abuse. 

I want to admit guilt here. Any relationship that needs repair is affected by both people involved. I have yet to say what my contributions to the issues are. I am not very affectionate is the biggest issues we face because of me. I really jut don;t like to be touched. My skin is hypersensitive, most likely from CSA in the beginning and rape later on. I have flashbacks and night mares. I can also be known to dissociate and lose track of whole hours at a time. Sex is not readily given out as much as my H would like. (once every 2 weeks if it were up to me) 

Aside from that my main contribution to our issues i that I don't meet his OCD guidelines very well. HE is a neat freak and I have ADD o being organized and tidy is not exactly what I am good at. 

The biggest thing that I have done that hurt our relationship was to wait until we had been married for 18 years to tell him I was raped many times by a past boyfriend, and that the possibility for CSA was great. He considered that lying. But in my eyes he was not trustworthy and I didn't feel safe enough with him to tell him what happened. I didn't know that a series of rapes so long ago could affect so much of my life. 

I am not perfect, I know I am not. I cry easily, I am very sensitive, I startle easily, I can't deal with loud noise, I have PTSD from life circumstances, I can;t be touched and messed with physically very much. Hugging and kissing are quite difficult for me. Sex is WAY hard for me. But with T a lot of my issues have been worked on. 

My H has stopped the bulk of his abusive ways. But not completely.

I explain it to the T as a dog who is kicked every day and the master says I'm not gonna kick you any more and once the dog feels safe again he kicks it again. Now things are at the point that the dog doesn't trust the master and the master says but I promise I won't kick you any more. He just kicks AT the dog in passing every now and again. Just enough to remind the dog that the master CAN kick and that he HAS kicked before, and he might have even kicked the dog every now and again but not as hard. So it didn't really hurt. So it doesn't really count.

I do want your opinion. No one says I have to like your opinion, though I do find it interesting to see how a male may see this all. I did come here and post a question and I was looking for a variety of answers. I do welcome all answers and I will try to answer all the questions necessary to provide a more clear picture. So please do be blunt, (in a nice way, and you have thus far) I want the truth and i want to see what others who are not so closely involved to my situation may think and see.


----------



## Big Mama

turnera said:


> I also am interested in a solution. Which is why I used my 15 years of experience dealing with abuse victims to tell her that she will be unable to effect a change in her marriage while staying there. And that experience also informs me to call out people when they do what most people who are unfamiliar with abuse do - blame the victim. Which is what you have just done.
> 
> Is she a saint? Of course not, no one said she was. What she IS is a person who's spent decades being told she's worthless, defective, THE problem. You try living for decades with a person who continuously finds fault with you, finds your weaknesses,
> and systematically degrades your ability to believe in yourself and your thoughts and your worth. Then come back in 20 years and tell us how easy it is to just say 'this stops now.'
> 
> And while we're on the subject, just how is she supposed to get it to stop? By being a better person and giving PROPER sex? If she turns into his sex kitten, will he then stop criticizing her? It didn't happen before.
> 
> If she wants him to change and fix her marriage, she first has to get mental help to learn her self worth again. And according to all the experts, it's about 98% impossible to do that under the same roof. Those who do stay, typically get strong enough to see their worth, and then leave anyway, because the man has chosen not to change. The only difference is that she then sees she doesn't have to accept being abused.
> 
> But if she wants to fix the marriage, she can do so from another home, without enduring the abuse, learning to believe in herself again, learning she can survive alone, while he in turn learns that she is to be valued and respected, if he wants to get to keep dating her. And by doing so, she may see him change and get back together with him. Win/win for both of them. But it will never happen if all she does is figure out what SHE is doing wrong. She's already getting plenty of advice on that.


THANK YOU. Very well said. Thank you is all I can say. I don't know the answers to these questions and I don't know what to do about this stuff. I just know what I am doing right now is not working.


----------



## turnera

There is only one thing you need to do THIS MONTH - be by yourself. 

Can you do that?


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *By Turnera*
> I'm not judging your post. I'm judging your male-centric, non-educated-on-abuse view that if she had a problem she should have just solved it.


Oh you are not judging my post you are just judging my male-centric, non-educated-on-abuse-view? That is judging and you putting your words to my post have no credibility. I have never said that “if she had a problem she should have just solved it. *You did not post a quote of mine that backs up your accusation so that proves you put your own spin on my post*.





> I think that you are a beaten down woman that is a good woman but you have some issues of your own that your husband may not be responsible for. I am no expert but I have read the experts and they say that a rape can really affect a woman’s attitudes, views, and ability to give proper sex in a marriage. I do not know if any of that fits you but my guess is that you do have some issues that have contributed to the misery that you have in your marriage.
> 
> By turnera
> Ah, so we get to the real issue. The one that is brought up again and again for abuse victims - if you'd just be a better wife, give more sex - no, PROPER sex, he wouldn't be treating you this way.


You must be very clairvoyant because you determined that my real issue is that I think that proper sex will make him stop treating her badly. My real issue was stated to you in my last post to you (see quoted reprint below) and even underlined so that you would not miss represent my focus. However, for some reason you ignored my actual words and judged that my real issue is I think that her giving him proper sex will fix him from treating her the way that he does.




> BY BLUNT:
> My post was mostly focused on Big Mama finding out where she can improve herself so that she can get the right help to get better. If she does that then she will get better if she stays in the marriage or gets a D.


Your judgments and clairvoyance are not as important as what Big Mama said. Although I never said or insinuated that sex would fix everything, Big Mama was brave enough to articulate about the sex, see Big Mama quote below



> *By Big Mama*
> I want to admit guilt here. Any relationship that needs repair is affected by both people involved. I have yet to say what my contributions to the issues are. I am not very affectionate is the biggest issues we face because of me. I really jut don’t like to be touched. My skin is hypersensitive, most likely from CSA in the beginning and rape later on. I have flashbacks and night mares. I can also be known to dissociate and lose track of whole hours at a time. Sex is not readily given out as much as my H would like. (Once every 2 weeks if it were up to me)
> Sex is WAY hard for me. But with T a lot of my issues have been worked on.


Big Mama has already found out what one of the problems are and is working on that with her T. That is what I was getting at but now I see that Big Mama is ahead of me and knows one of the problems and is addressing it.




> Quote:
> I am a man and man that is mostly interested in a solution to at least a few of the issues.
> 
> *By Turnera*
> I also am interested in a solution. Which is why I used my 15 years of experience dealing with abuse victims to tell her that she will be unable to effect a change in her marriage while staying there? And that experience also informs me to call out people when they do what most people who are unfamiliar with abuse do - *blame the victim. Which is what you have just done?*



Your accusation above that I blame the victim is such an giant distortion that I am just going to stop with answering you on this post. You do not post any of my quotes to substantiate your accusations but I will post my quote that proves you wrong again; here it is




> BY BLUNT
> “I have no doubt that you (Big Mama) are emotionally beaten down and that your husband has contributed to that


Again, I am interested in Big Mama’s words more than yours so it seems to me that she did not take it that I am blaming her by her words below:



> *By Big Mama*
> I do want your opinion. No one says I have to like your opinion, though I do find it interesting to see how a male may see this all. I did come here and post a question and I was looking for a variety of answers. I do welcome all answers and I will try to answer all the questions necessary to provide a clearer picture. So please do be blunt, (in a nice way, and you have thus far) I want the truth and I want to see what others who are not so closely involved to my situation may think and see



*Big Mama, if you took it that I was blaming you then please let me know bluntly and I will try to explain. Thank you*


----------



## LongWalk

BigMama,

You have two choices. One is to divorce.

You can even have a relationship with your husband post D but on your terms. He is welcome in your home as he is treating your with respect.

The other option – to remain married requires that you become stronger. You need to be able to stand up to him so that you are not beaten down.

If you can say "hold on, honey" and break him of the habit of abusing you, you can become an equal partner in your marriage.

Do you enjoy sex with your husband ever? Do you feel affectionate towards him when he is has been good?

You ought to ask your husband in T whether he thinks your marriage will survive if you feel abused.

Your husband is a church deacon. That suggests that he likes rules and authority. Do feel that the church empowers and enables him? How does the pastor(s) see you husband?

What do you get out of your church. If the congregation all feel your husband the deacon is a great guy and you are lucky, then you are living a lie and enabling him to abuse you with the affirmation of a social network.

Is there another church you could attend?

Am I right in recalling that you are Catholic? What short of relationship do you have with the clergy?


----------



## Big Mama

I am Christian, Southern Baptist to be exact. I have talked to the pastor about some of this stuff. He knows the family history. He is very torn as to what to allow in a deacon. Abuse certainly is not right. But he has not hit me. I don't think the pastor thinks it would be wrong to leave my H in this case. I have tried and I have been very diligent in trying to fix things. But on the other hand, divorce simply isn't right. The pastor did say if my H was not making strides to to improve the situation then he would have to ask my H to step down as a deacon. But we all fail, we are all human, and recognizing the need for help and being willing to accept the help is huge. So for that reason he didn't ask him to step down. 

Your other question was..."Do I enjoy sex with my H, and when he has been good do I feel affection towards him?

Sex is very unrewarding. I never have "O"s with my H present. There are limits on parts of my body he can touch due to the past abuse and the trauma being to great. HE is aware or this and brings it up almost every time. "I will be glad when I can touch you * in that way* and that statement alone makes me feel guilty. or he asks "When are you gonna let me do *whatever* " When he has been pleasant I do think about sex a little more, but I still can't act on what I feel due to my past sexual history. My History with him alone keeps me very reserved and fearful to let my self go at the cost of being rejected as I am often rejected in most anything I do outside of he bedroom." The request of the T is to not have sex for 6 weeks or so and see how our relationship changes and how I might be forced by nature to show my affection towards him. But he gets angry and says that that is a woman's plan to withhold sex and that it doesn't take his needs into consideration. So it is a very touch subject to say the least.


----------



## turnera

Since your church is so closely linked to y'all's lives, I suggest telling your pastor the whole truth and asking him to talk to your husband. Let the pastor know you're close to leaving and if your husband doesn't take the abuse seriously, you will. Ask him to help you help your husband.


----------



## LongWalk

If you don't have a good sex life at all, that is very tough on you. Asperger's is a very tough condition to deal with. Depending on how severe, the sufferer has a very hard time empathizing. They have emotional blind spots.

Can you tell your husband when you are feeling more affectionate? That does not mean you have to have sex, but you can explain that he has been nice in this way and that and it has given you a warm feeling towards him.

Maybe you need to go to a sex therapist who knows how to overcome the negative associations that rape and sex abuse victims have.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Oh Big Mama.... I have officially shed tears for you today... I hear the work you have put in... The trauma you carry... Its not your fault he has his blind spots with empathy and its not your fault CSA and rape were inflicted on you. Just pure empathy and compassion from me... Tears... Pardon me while I grieve your story.


----------



## turnera

So you know...I have issues, too. But I always felt I had to do what my H wanted. Partly because of my past and the indoctrination, but also because the rare times I said no, I got 'punished.' It's hard to describe how, but it was real. So I basically was agreeing to something I hated and that filled me with guilt and shame and self-hatred. Which is why I've been pushing you so hard on this; I get it. 

One of the few things I've been able to accomplish through therapy, finally, is to say no to him, as scary as it was. I've even pushed beyond that, and told him I didn't want it more than once a week (we've been married 34 years), and surprisingly, he's pretty much complied. But it had to be ME saying it, starting the dialogue.

You can do this, too. It's your body. It's not his property. Protect it.


----------



## Big Mama

turnera said:


> Since your church is so closely linked to y'all's lives, I suggest telling your pastor the whole truth and asking him to talk to your husband. Let the pastor know you're close to leaving and if your husband doesn't take the abuse seriously, you will. Ask him to help you help your husband.


My H doesn't respect our pastor so he chooses not to have these kind of discussions with him.He doesn't want to be counseled by him. My H also doesn't want anyone knowing what is going on. No knows this stuff, or at least very few people. 

I have asked my pastor to please not mention this to my H. I just don't want another hurtle in between us. At the point in which I talked to the pastor, I also told him I was fearful of my H. What he would do if he found out that I told the pastor of all people what was going on. The pastor agreed that it might not be wise for him to speak with him for fear of my safety and the children safety. Not our physical safety but our emotional safety. The pastor says nothing about our relationship and I try to no go to our pastor because I know it is difficult for him to let my H remain a deacon. 

When I have asked how can the church let him continue to be a deacon knowing that mental and emotional abuse is taking place, the pastors answer is that he is making strides to improve, and that with time when he learns to change his behaviors it will be wonderful testimony of a family who was on the brink of divorce and a woman who stayed threw tough circumstances and a man who did't leave and learned to change his ways.


----------



## Big Mama

LongWalk said:


> If you don't have a good sex life at all, that is very tough on you. Asperger's is a very tough condition to deal with. Depending on how severe, the sufferer has a very hard time empathizing. They have emotional blind spots.
> 
> Can you tell your husband when you are feeling more affectionate? That does not mean you have to have sex, but you can explain that he has been nice in this way and that and it has given you a warm feeling towards him.
> 
> Maybe you need to go to a sex therapist who knows how to overcome the negative associations that rape and sex abuse victims have.


Aspergers is a very tough condition to deal with. That is why I am so torn here. What if he is not being difficult to live with on purpose. What if it is the Aspergers? But because he has Aspurgers does that mean he gets to treat me like crap so much of the time and I'm just supposed to say "Oh that's ok, he didn't mean to say it." IDK. Does that give him a free pass to say whatever he wants to me. The T did say at one point, if we find out he has aspurgers that may be a deal breaker for you. You will either have to live with these things forever, which may be to much or you will have to get used to a meaningless relationship. But you will have to settle for a lonely relationship adn develop a much thicker skin. 

What a creep that would make me. I find out my H has a form of autism and I say well that's it dude sorry .When he found out 18 years int our marriage that I had been raped and had CSA in my past, he didn't say well sorry dude, guess that is to much for me to handle. Been nice knowin ya.


----------



## ladymisato

Big Mama said:


> Aspergers is a very tough condition to deal with. ...But you will have to settle for a lonely relationship adn develop a much thicker skin.


I normally don't like to second guess therapists but I have to on this. If what you see is Aspergers and you develop a thicker skin and learn to stand up to him you will come to a deeper relationship with him. Right now it only _seems_ abusive and lonely because you are treating his thoughts and actions seriously. You are empowering him.


----------



## Big Mama

turnera said:


> So you know...I have issues, too. But I always felt I had to do what my H wanted. Partly because of my past and the indoctrination, but also because the rare times I said no, I got 'punished.' It's hard to describe how, but it was real. So I basically was agreeing to something I hated and that filled me with guilt and shame and self-hatred. Which is why I've been pushing you so hard on this; I get it.
> 
> One of the few things I've been able to accomplish through therapy, finally, is to say no to him, as scary as it was. I've even pushed beyond that, and told him I didn't want it more than once a week (we've been married 34 years), and surprisingly, he's pretty much complied. But it had to be ME saying it, starting the dialogue.
> 
> You can do this, too. It's your body. It's not his property. Protect it.



Our sex life is not great, but it has improved greatly since starting T. I was crying during sex or afterwards. I felt guilty for being bad at sex, or for crying and making my H feel bad. No man wants there wife to cry when they have sex with them. I would sometimes throw up after having sex. (Just so some of you know, it was not because I am grossed out by my H, that's not it at all.) I don't know why that sensation come over me. I would have horrible nightmares the nights that followed sex. I would have flashbacks as well. During sex I would disassociate sometimes. I would "go away" mentally and become present again later and check to see if my H was done with me. If not I would go back to my safe place in my mind. 

Things have improved in the last 6 months. I have been fully present mentally for the past 3 months. I have not had that barf feeling in 3 months either. I have cried after sex though. And for the first time ever just 2 weeks ago, I realized the stress of sex w/ my H was to much and that I was gonna cry if we had sex that I decided to please him in another way. 

I haven't had flashbacks in 6 months and no night mares for maybe 3 months. With the help of the T I have done lots of exercises to get past some of the stuff that has gone in my mind. I have had any nightmares either. But those are usually followed by sex that ends in "O"'s at some point during the night. The more I enjoy the experience the worse the night mare is and the longer series of days/nights I have nightmares. So no "O"'s really isn't the end of the world at this time. Though it would be nice if sex was rewarding.


----------



## LongWalk

People with Asperger's require a great of explicit communication. What seems obvious to most flies by them. They feel uneasy that they are out of the loop.

You have to stop his emotional abuse. When he starts look him in the eye raise your hand and say stop. 

Once you establish this boundary he may actually be happier.


----------



## turnera

Big Mama said:


> My H also doesn't want anyone knowing what is going on.


Of course he doesn't; he's abusive. But what does that have to do with YOU deciding if YOU want other people to know what's going on? 



Big Mama said:


> No knows this stuff, or at least very few people.


That's how abuse is perpetuated.



Big Mama said:


> I have asked my pastor to please not mention this to my H. I just don't want another hurtle in between us. At the point in which I talked to the pastor, I also told him I was fearful of my H. What he would do if he found out that I told the pastor of all people what was going on. The pastor agreed that it might not be wise for him to speak with him for fear of my safety and the children safety. Not our physical safety but our emotional safety.


I can see that.



Big Mama said:


> When I have asked how can the church let him continue to be a deacon knowing that mental and emotional abuse is taking place, the pastors answer is that he is making strides to improve, and that with time when he learns to change his behaviors it will be wonderful testimony of a family who was on the brink of divorce and a woman who stayed threw tough circumstances and a man who didn't leave and learned to change his ways.


So what is he doing to HELP this happen? Other than telling the abuse victim to just stick it out while I reward the abuser and hope that, just maybe, her husband will wake up one morning and think huh, I shouldn't do that any more? I have little, very little, faith in church representatives any more. Mine have been of no more help. They're just looking out for own job like anyone else.


----------



## turnera

Big Mama said:


> Aspergers is a very tough condition to deal with. That is why I am so torn here. What if he is not being difficult to live with on purpose. What if it is the Aspergers? But because he has Aspurgers does that mean he gets to treat me like crap so much of the time and I'm just supposed to say "Oh that's ok, he didn't mean to say it."


You could try to give him this book.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Journal-Best-Practices-Marriage/dp/1439189749


----------



## turnera

Big Mama said:


> What a creep that would make me. I find out my H has a form of autism and I say well that's it dude sorry .When he found out 18 years int our marriage that I had been raped and had CSA in my past, he didn't say well sorry dude, guess that is to much for me to handle. Been nice knowin ya.


Mama, one of my DD's best friends has Aspergers and he is completely capable of being a decent loving person. I love him to death. 

Your husband is abusive because he wants to be. Don't go romanticizing him. 

Have you read the Why Does He Do That? book yet? I don't remember. IIWY, I'd get it, read it, and leave it out so he knows you're educating yourself.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> Mama, one of my DD's best friends has Aspergers and he is completely capable of being a decent loving person. I love him to death.
> 
> Your husband is abusive because he wants to be. Don't go romanticizing him.
> 
> Have you read the Why Does He Do That? book yet? I don't remember. IIWY, I'd get it, read it, and leave it out so he knows you're educating yourself.


Great advice to only excuse poor behavior accurately. Otherwise its enabling.


----------



## Big Mama

turnera said:


> So what is he doing to HELP this happen? Other than telling the abuse victim to just stick it out while I reward the abuser and hope that, just maybe, her husband will wake up one morning and think huh, I shouldn't do that any more? I have little, very little, faith in church representatives any more. Mine have been of no more help. They're just looking out for own job like anyone else.


I think pastors mean well. They have experience dealing with people in different situations. But they simply are not qualified to be counselors in so many cases. They can listen, and often they can help some but they lack the professionalism and professional ability to deal with things that a paid professional counselor can.


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## Blossom Leigh

We are fortunate that in our case the church has been our best resource.


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## Big Mama

Blossom Leigh I am glad your church was/is able to be of some help. I don't think my pastor was qualified to deal with the mental affects of rape and CSA and the affect it had on my marriage along with my H's Aspergers. It was/is just a bad combination. Though it was a great help the scripture he was able to provide and the listening ear, and some of the relational advice and especially to know that I had someone praying for me and my H. It also helped a lot to simply tell someone what was going on.


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## turnera

I've seen so many lives ruined because people turned to their pastor for help - who had, at most, 3 classes in psychology and people problems - instead of a psychologist, who went to school for 10-12 YEARS to be able to help you.


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## Blossom Leigh

It is something to be super careful with for sure... We first went professional route, which triggered me in a group setting, then chose separate professional counselors AND individual counselors at our church, thats when things shifted. The male counselor at the church held my H's feet to the fire for his behavior. Then when it felt safe we met as a group with an advocate with me to prevent my triggering. I think one big difference between our husbands are that my H chose to no longer hide his behavior failures, but to expose them and get well authentically. Your H is stalling his remaining healing by staying in the dark about it, sadly. He needs to get serious about you being more important than him saving face.

Our church I feel has the healthiest view of relationships that I've ever seen in a church and its sad it is not more widespread.


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## Big Mama

It has been a week since I first posted this thread. things here on the home front are going smoothly. I can feel myself slipping back into the "Oh this isn't so bad" routen. I don;t feel like it would be fair to tell my H my plans when he is being nice. I'd rather tell him when he is angry and I am angry enough to say what I feel. 

I agree with the T though. She asked me in which way was he going t be able to hear me better. AND if someone were telling me a story similar to mine how would I advise tht person to say that. Of'course my answer was to tell someone that kind of stuff when they are calm and not angry. I am kind of torn here at this point. I know the right answer about the conversation but what I know and what I feel is two different things. I don't know why I would rather tell him when he is already angry. That makes no since. That is just how I feel more comfortable. I guess I don't want to upset him during a calm conversation.


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## turnera

I had the same problem. But I realized it was MY weakness, and nothing more. I didn't believe in myself and I figured if I waited until he was being an ass, I could then say 'well, guess what? Because of THIS, I'm leaving.' I didn't have to just say 'I deserve better than this life, so I'm leaving.' If you CAN tell him when he's calm, that's an added bonus of your self worth.


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## Big Mama

Self worth, whats that. I haven't seen that in years.


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## turnera

You will, once you're away from daily destruction.


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## Big Mama

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Mama View Post
Aspergers is a very tough condition to deal with. That is why I am so torn here. What if he is not being difficult to live with on purpose. What if it is the Aspergers? But because he has Aspurgers does that mean he gets to treat me like crap so much of the time and I'm just supposed to say "Oh that's ok, he didn't mean to say it."
You could try to give him this book.
The Journal of Best Practices: A Memoir of Marriage, Asperger Syndrome, and One Man's Quest to Be a Better Husband: David Finch: 9781439189740: Amazon.com: Books


Sounds like a really REALLY helpful book. I place an order just moments ago. I hope it arrives quickly.


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