# An imbalance of giving



## Effort (Nov 11, 2016)

My wife and I have a good marriage. Married 16 years, four kids, prosperous, social, connected. But I can't stop getting down about it. It has been a lifelong value of mine to be a great husband. It's one of my core motivators, to try to be an excellent father and husband, and I invest large amounts of time and thought in this. I have been FAR from perfect and am as capable of boneheaded mistakes as anyone, but I put significant effort and thought and focus into our relationship. 

This includes frequently finding ways to give love, large and small. Small things include jumping in on work she is trying to get done, assisting on housework (we share housework to some extent, but I work full-time and she stays at home), going to work late or leaving work early to let her take a class or go out with friends, frequent affectionate expressions, touches, gifts, etc. I loves yous, hugs, kisses, cuddles, and most important to her, connecting time-- sitting and chatting for extended periods often. 

In short, I understand the importance of connection for her. I try to seek it for her and for me. And all of it boils down to me trying to give love in as many ways as I can. I don't give her anything. She wishes I'd spend more on her, but that's not an item of major conflict. 

On the flipside, I struggle so badly to feel like she makes anywhere near the effort I'm making. She is often kind to me, though sometimes cross and critical. Occasionally she will offer a kind touch, and less frequently open up sexually. But more often these things only happen when I explain to her that I'm feeling neglected. There are no encouraging statements, compliments, shows of attraction, acknowledgements of kind acts or sacrifices. Zero indication that she sees what I try to do to be a good husband for her. 

I'm not a very emotional person, nor extremely sensitive. But I find myself on this constant cycle now. I go a few weeks trying really hard to be the best, most loving and giving husband I can be. I give as much as I can in the ways I think she wants. She goes along, business as usual, not noticing, not seeming really to care, and still pointing out shortcomings and flaws and areas of little failure. Kind words are few and far between, and never, not ever, does she appear to put any thought into ways to show me I'm valued or appreciated. So I get sad and withdraw. She sees me withdraw and gets mad because she thinks I'm just being selfish. I tell her it's not selfishness but hurt. She views this as "needing credit" and writes me off as just over-the-top neediness. We talk and talk and she says she'll try harder to show a little love. Then I buy in, we re-set, and I head off to begin the cycle again, giving as much as I can. 

I am sick of this cycle. I hate it. It has major effects on my emotional state every single day. And now, I probably am giving with some hope of being repaid in some way. But it feels to me that all my giving is meant to raise the connection and intimacy in our marriage, and it never has that effect. So the only way for me to give is find some totally higher level of altruism, seeking to give and sacrifice with literally no expectation that it will result in a warmer, more loving connection. This is heartbreaking to me.

I don't want to keep talking about it. I don't want to come back to her again and again and tell her things seem out of balance. She listens and tries to work at it, but it's like these talks fade every single time after two days. I need to be done. The answers must be internal. BUt I can't find them. I'm stuck. Need help.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

Maybe you're being too nice.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

Perhaps you are creating an imbalance because you except something in return, such words of affirmation and affectionate behaviour? 
Have you communicated this properly to your wife or do you just except her to know? 

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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@Effort, it sounds like you have a covert contract with your wife. This is when you do nice things for her expecting her to return the favor. Then you get upset when she doesn't meet that expectation.

You can read more about that in No More Mr. Nice Guy.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

This happen all the time to men who allow their wives to stay home with the kids. They make all the money do all the chores, constantly try to find ways to give love to both the wife and kids, but it never is reciprocated, rather quite the opposite, he ends up being scorned. I think that you need to have your wife go back to work and make her do her share. It might be too late for that though. After she's able to lase around all day and give you nothing but crap for giving her a life free from the work world, she never go back to work willingly. Your stuck with a free loader.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

jb02157 said:


> This happen all the time to men who allow their wives to stay home with the kids. They make all the money do all the chores, constantly try to find ways to give love to both the wife and kids, but it never is reciprocated, rather quite the opposite, he ends up being scorned. I think that you need to have your wife go back to work and make her do her share. It might be too late for that though. After she's able to lase around all day and give you nothing but crap for giving her a life free from the work world, she never go back to work willingly. Your stuck with a free loader.


You sound miserable.


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## KillerClown (Jul 20, 2016)

If you're tired of the cycle, end it. 

You feel neglected, become sad and withdraw. That sounds VERY VERY EMOTIONAL to me. It's not manly and it's not attractive. I don't have sympathy for you and neither should your wife.

Relationship doesn't keep score cards.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

For all the effort you are putting forth, you still may not be showing her love in the way that she needs. And, SHE is not meeting YOUR emotional needs either...does she know what your needs are? We don't all give or receive love in the same way, so its important to find out what makes each of you feel loved. 

Reading assignments!

His Needs, Her Needs by Dr Willard Harley
https://www.amazon.com/His-Needs-Her-Building-Affair-Proof/dp/0800744233


The 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman
https://www.amazon.com/Love-Languag...494&sr=8-1&keywords=the+5+love+languages+book


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## Icebearsmom (Oct 20, 2016)

Sounds like your love languages may be acts of service and possibly words of affirmation. And hers sounds like possibly gifts since she says you don't spend enough on her. Is she the kind of person who goes out of her way to get everyone the perfect birthday or Christmas present, and gets hurt easily if a gift isn't liked or appreciated? How often do you give her little gifts with no "reason" behind them? If it's not something you do, try it. On your way home from work, stop and get her some flowers or her favorite candy or snack or something she's mentioned wanting or needing recently like a particular book or supplies for her favorite hobby. And make it clear you aren't expecting anything in return.

And definitely read The 5 Love Languages and try to go through it together. Get the workbook if you can find a copy. I also highly recommend The Love Dare but read that one alone and don't tell her about it. Your spouse isn't supposed to know you're doing it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

This would be a good article to read.. it speaks of the dynamic you are going rounds with -with your wife... 1st you need to recognize what you are doing, it's primary motivation...to see why this is not working...

When A Partner Isn't Pulling Their Weight



> Even though they suppress their needs, Nice Guys still want those needs met somehow, which naturally creates a real dilemma. Glover articulates the problem this way: “How can they keep the fact that they have needs hidden, but still create situations in which they have hope of getting their needs met?” Nice Guys accomplish “this seemingly impossible goal” by resorting to methods that are “controlling, manipulative, and unclear” and involve the use of what Glover calls* “covert contracts.”* These “unconscious, unspoken agreements,” Glover explains,
> 
> “are the primary way Nice Guys interact with the world around them. Almost everything a Nice Guy does represents some manifestation of a covert contract.
> 
> ...


Another article ... So what is a Nice Guy?...


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

I agree that this deals with expectations on both sides though. If you expect in return what you are giving out you either will not get it, as you are different people and her way of expressing affection is different and she is not a mind reader, or you will get it but it will be insincere, and then you can see through it, as you have, and you were better off not getting it anyways. 

I would say pull back some. Do less. Still be nice and polite but do less. Be less available and don't mention that you feel neglected or anything. If you have a hobby delve more into it and not be around quite as much. See what happens...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So basically you kiss her ass because somewhere in your childhood you determined that by doing so, SHE would be obligated to do the same thing for you. I'll go so far as to suggest you don't even WANT to do all this ass-kissing - not out of real love anyway; you just do it because you keep waiting for her to reciprocate. 

And every day you kiss her ass and she doesn't reciprocate, guess what? You become just a.little.bit 'better than her; you become the 'victim' in the marriage and she the protagonist. And that's a great place to be, right? Because then, no matter what happens, YOU are not at fault.

Read No More Mr Nice Guy and come back. Here's what I suggest is going to happen; you're going to start reading and after about two chapters, you're going to come here and say 'Wow! I can't believe it! They were writing all about me!' Just like all the other nice guys do.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Double post.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

turnera said:


> So basically you kiss her ass because somewhere in your childhood you determined that by doing so, SHE would be obligated to do the same thing for you. I'll go so far as to suggest you don't even WANT to do all this ass-kissing - not out of real love anyway; you just do it because you keep waiting for her to reciprocate.
> 
> And every day you kiss her ass and she doesn't reciprocate, guess what? You become just a.little.bit 'better than her; you become the 'victim' in the marriage and she the protagonist. And that's a great place to be, right? Because then, no matter what happens, YOU are not at fault.
> 
> Read No More Mr Nice Guy and come back. Here's what I suggest is going to happen; you're going to start reading and after about two chapters, you're going to come here and say 'Wow! I can't believe it! They were writing all about me!' Just like all the other nice guys do.


Been there, read book, made changes. 

Expect your relationship to get a bit rockier before it gets BETTER! Your wife is used to you working on everything for her & family before doing something for yourself. When you get more balance in your life, initially, she is going to not like it. Down the road, both of you will be happier.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Lila said:


> @Effort, it sounds like you have a covert contract with your wife. This is when you do nice things for her expecting her to return the favor. Then you get upset when she doesn't meet that expectation.
> 
> You can read more about that in No More Mr. Nice Guy.


How dare he expect to be treated as a partner in a relationship, to desire attention or affection, or to be appreciated !

Or are you implying he should stop trying to be the good husband he wants to be, and that she'll be nice to him anyway, even though she's not nice or caring or appreciative at the moement.

or perhaps you think that he should think himself lucky that she lets him stay in her house he helped pay for....


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

spotthedeaddog said:


> How dare he expect to be treated as a partner in a relationship, to desire attention or affection, or to be appreciated !
> 
> Or are you implying he should stop trying to be the good husband he wants to be, and that she'll be nice to him anyway, even though she's not nice or caring or appreciative at the moement.


Not sure where I could have been any clearer in my post. I meant exactly what I posted. He should stop doing things for her with the sole intent of having her reciprocate things for him. That's called a covert contract and not healthy for a relationship. 



spotthedeaddog said:


> or perhaps you think that he should think himself lucky that she lets him stay in her house he helped pay for....


Looks like you're trying to make a point but it has nothing to do with either the OP or my response to him so I'm going to ignore your assumptions. 

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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

OP, it was a while before I read about "covert contracts" here on TAM but when I did, it clicked. It sounds like that's what you created. You did nice things for her. But you did nice things for her expecting a result. Not for the simple act of giving. You didn't communicate your needs or expectations to her so how would she know what you need to feel loved/needed if you never tell her?

Talk to her. Read "No More Mr. Nice Guy." If you insist on doing the things you do for her to be kind, do them because you want to see her happy. Not because you expect her to do things for you in return. It sounds like there is an imbalance. Are you guys in counseling? NOW is the time for that rather than when your marriage is in dire straights. Please, please talk to her.

Have you guys taken the Love Languages quiz? Sounds like you both haven't really discussed each other's needs. You should talk to her about it and take it together. It's something I wish I had done before getting married. It's never too late.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

Effort - I always am hung up on making lists, so here is one for you.

1. Read No More Mr. Nice Guy. Short book, will help you get your head straight. Don't let your wife see you read it.

2. Start reading The 5 Love Languages, casually, in front of her. If she asks what your reading, tell her you want to be sure you are speaking her languages, and ask her to read it and take the quiz at the end. If she does take the quiz, memorize the order of her languages and start working on the top 3.

3. Continue to do the nice things for her, but don't expect ANYTHING in return. Go get yourself a gym membership. One of the national chains offers $20/month for you and guest. Go and start lifting weights, build up to it, but start circuit training. This is for YOU. A mixture of weights and aerobic training will naturally improve your mood. Not overnight, but it will improve. Look at it like a challenge, haven't you ever looked in the mirror and wondered "How buff could I get if I really pushed it for a while?" When your feeling down, go burn it out of you at the gym.

4. Don't know if you go to church or not, but listen to this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOlnH0Y7DK0

Anything your wife has done/said in past, you need to just let it go. It affects your attitude towards her and life in general. I'm not saying you should put up with any abusive treatment, that you forgive & walk away from. The speaker addresses that in a different video.

Do all four things, and see how you feel in 6 months. Expect questions from your wife. If you don't go to the gym, and you start, she will wonder why. Simply say you read online that exercise improves overall well being & you want to give it a try.

Almost forgot a very important link - The author of this link discusses issues that affected her sex drive & overall marriage. Your wife may be dealing with issues of her own. If she has any abuse in her past - Unbearable Lessons - The Forgiven Wife

I find reading her articles helped me understand where my wife's mind was at.


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