# Men: How important is the love component from your wife during sex?



## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

You & your wife have a good relationship & she is very loving toward you. Never turns you down. Initiates sometimes. Is enthusiastic & adventurous. But you found out she does it to be loving, as she does love you. However, sex and love have become separate for her. 

She enjoys having sex with you, but that's all it is. There is no emotional connect for her with you during sex. How would you feel & would you want to figure out why and how to change that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

honeysuckle rose said:


> You & your wife have a good relationship & she is very loving toward you. Never turns you down. Initiates sometimes. Is enthusiastic & adventurous. But you found out she does it to be loving, as she does love you. However, sex and love have become separate for her.
> 
> She enjoys having sex with you, but that's all it is. There is no emotional connect for her with you during sex. *How would you feel & would you want to figure out why and how to change that?*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would be thinking that my marriage is coming to an end. Sex is how I connect with my wife. Sorry, I want both. I deserve both.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

And you are getting that from the scenario presented. She is compartmentalizing. What is wrong with that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

HSC, with respect, it feels like you keep posting slightly different comments in an effort to get the answer you want, but I'm not sure what you are asking. 

You can, of course, post whatever you want, but I think you might get more useful comments if you sat down and really thought through what was bothering you. Sorry if I'm misreading this, but that's how it seems to me.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

honeysuckle rose said:


> You & your wife have a good relationship & she is very loving toward you. Never turns you down. Initiates sometimes. Is enthusiastic & adventurous. But you found out she does it to be loving, as she does love you. However, sex and love have become separate for her.
> 
> She enjoys having sex with you, but that's all it is. There is no emotional connect for her with you during sex. How would you feel & would you want to figure out why and how to change that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If it is always compartmentalized, then I agree there would be deep problems in my marriage. It does not always need to be (like a conversation with my wife does not always need to involve an emotional connection), but it needs to be there a lot of the time. Sex is part of connecting with my wife, and if she does not see it that way, that is a problem.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

honeysuckle rose said:


> And you are getting that from the scenario presented. She is compartmentalizing. What is wrong with that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is not what I need. I need this as part of sex. This is just me. 

Why do you feel there is no love component during sex?

TAG puts it well.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

lamaga said:


> HSC, with respect, it feels like you keep posting slightly different comments in an effort to get the answer you want, but I'm not sure what you are asking.
> 
> You can, of course, post whatever you want, but I think you might get more useful comments if you sat down and really thought through what was bothering you. Sorry if I'm misreading this, but that's how it seems to me.


Not at all. The comments are very helpful. Touch & sex are not important to me in that those aren't ways I connect with my spouse. I love him and enjoy sex, but it doesn't have the same meaning for me that it does to him. I think this is how men connect most strongly. Understanding that, I was curious as to what would be wrong or hurtful if everything was good, but if I felt no bond thru sex, why that would be problematic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

If sex and touch is not important to you, does that mean that you would not be devastated if your husband was having sex on the sly?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

honeysuckle rose said:


> Not at all. The comments are very helpful. Touch & sex are not important to me in that those aren't ways I connect with my spouse. I love him and enjoy sex, but it doesn't have the same meaning for me that it does to him. I think this is how men connect most strongly. Understanding that, I was curious as to what would be wrong or hurtful if everything was good, but if I felt no bond thru sex, why that would be problematic.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you have not already you may want to read His Needs Her Needs. It explains how peoples needs vary from person to person and in general between the sexes. 

They say women connect to have sex and men have sex to connect. Maybe this is at least in some measure what you are expressing.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Seems like the OP is trying to find a new way to express the very popular "I love you but I am not IN LOVE with YOU."


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

honeysuckle rose said:


> She enjoys having sex with you, but that's all it is. There is no emotional connect for her with you during sex. How would you feel & would you want to figure out why and how to change that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hmm...I do desire my wife's intimacy as a conduit for her love for me.

Doesn`t have to be all the time but I do want her to express it sexually often.

I`d talk to her and try to figure out how to fix it if I could.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> If you have not already you may want to read His Needs Her Needs. It explains how peoples needs vary from person to person and i general between the sexes.
> 
> They say women connect to have sex and men have sex to connect. Maybe this is at least in some measure what you are expressing.


Yes. I don't feel connected to him now. For me sex is just sex right now. When we do it, its enjoyable, but I don't feel closer to him because of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

hookares said:


> Seems like the OP is trying to find a new way to express the very popular "I love you but I am not IN LOVE with YOU."


That is how I feel now. You aren't always in love with your spouse, but you can be loving. Sex is important to him, so I do it and not begrudgingly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

honeysuckle rose said:


> Not at all. The comments are very helpful. Touch & sex are not important to me in that those aren't ways I connect with my spouse. I love him and enjoy sex, but it doesn't have the same meaning for me that it does to him. I think this is how men connect most strongly. Understanding that, I was curious as to what would be wrong or hurtful if everything was good, but if I felt no bond thru sex, why that would be problematic.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is there an activity that you do with your spouse that you think binds you? If so, and you found out your spouse felt no bond, but did it any way, how would you feel?

I suspect part of my concern would be the issue of doing it out of love (even with no bonding) and doing it out of obligation.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

morituri said:


> If sex and touch is not important to you, does that mean that you would not be devastated if your husband was having sex on the sly?


The way I see things now and the way I feel, I might be hurt but I would move on. I also always tend to expect the worst so I am always prepared.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Is there an activity that you do with your spouse that you think binds you? If so, and you found out your spouse felt no bond, but did it any way, how would you feel?
> 
> I suspect part of my concern would be the issue of doing it out of love (even with no bonding) and doing it out of obligation.


I understand. It wouldn't feel so good...I am not IN love right now is the problem & I hate it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

It is huge. I probably wouldn't want it if there was no 'love' to our sex life.

And for compartmentalizing, no thanks. This is meant as NO offense to women in general or the women posters here, but some women do have this mindset that when they are having sex with their husbands, that they are giving themselves to their husbands, but are doing so because their husbands love them. As true as that might be, the reverse is also true, and husbands are also giving themselves up to their wives, even if they are the initator. Just like women, men are offering themselves fully, physically, emotionally and spiritually to their wives during sex.

How would a wife feel if they learned their husband was 'compartmentalizing' and just getting his rocks off to his wife, not making love to her? Like just as ****ty as a husband would feel if he learned that his wife was having sex with him for him, but not because she wanted too.

The two go together, not in seperate parts.


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

I read a quote somewhere, perhaps from George Burns, "_The secret to a long and happy marriage is never being in love with each other at the same time._" 

In my experience love for my wife is not the same from day to day or even month to month. Sometimes love is _that_ feeling and sex really creates and reinforces a deep and intimate connection. Other times love is in my actions; the things that I do for her even if I'm not completely "feeling it". 

It seems to me that the times when I don't feel like I'm "in love" with my wife are the times when it's important to strive to rebuild that connection. I think that sex is an important part of that, along with communication and spending nonsexual time working on our marriage. Even when sex does feel like it's just for pleasure, it is an act of acceptance and communication. It's a way to keep the door open to falling in love again. Not only does it feel good and my lover's touch releases hormones that are associated with bonding, but most importantly it creates opportunities for emotional intimacy. What we do with those opportunities is compeltely up to us.

I have never asked directly, but I think that my wife feels the same way. I'm sure there are times when she's not "in love" with me, but we need to have faith that we will fall in love with each other again. Having sex is an expression of that faith, and keeps us connected while we work on enhancing our love relationship.

So I guess the short answer to your question is that I think enjoying sex with your husband is a good thing, even if you're not feeling the emotionally intimate connection right now. Each time you do you open the door to changing that for the better.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

I think this is simply a desire situation. 

A guy wants his woman to feel desire for him: Desire manifests in juicy, fun sex. Lack of desire manifests in what you are describing. Most of us feel sh*tty about sex that comes from lack of desire. And as loving as our women are for their willingness to accommodate our ego and libido, it feels lousy and makes one feel like less of a man than the guy who's woman truly desires him.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

My H told me the other week that to him sex was "just" sex. That it is just a physical act. So I said I could be just anyone then?

He said no. He has since backpedaled but I am still devastated. And I am the woman. I cannot understand it this way around.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

walkingwounded said:


> My H told me the other week that to him sex was "just" sex. That it is just a physical act. ... I am still devastated.


I have two thoughts on this. The first is that love is unconditional. Love for my wife is accepting who she is without judgement. If she were to tell me that she doesn't see something the same way that I do, I have to accept that and show her that she doesn't have to sugar coat herself to keep my love. Does he show his love for you in other ways? 

The second thought is that maybe after some thought he's realized that he really does get more from sex than just physical gratification. Is there a reason that you won't give him a chance to re-think what he gets from your lovemaking?


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## Joanie (Oct 24, 2010)

I rarely feel that the sex between us is an act of love. He's got a high drive (as do I most often) and we take care of that need. We rarely kiss during sex, never speak and hop off the bed when we are done. We have sex on average of 5 times per week. He seems happy. Let me ask this....for the men who say they need to feel that their mate is "connected to them" during sex, what exactly makes you feel that way? Kissing..hugging...lot's of I love you's? Just curious.


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## GhostRydr (Jun 2, 2012)

The first mistake a man makes is trying to decipher the thought process of a woman and why she thinks the way she does.

If she is adventerous, loves having sex, etc...let it be. We as men shouldnt care how she has emotionally arrived at her feeling. Um, ladies note I didnt say we shouldnt care about their feelings, just not care about how she arrives or formulates then.

This sounds more like what a woman would be asking a man and thus frustrating him to no end. ;P


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> I would be thinking that my marriage is coming to an end. Sex is how I connect with my wife. Sorry, I want both. I deserve both.


Perfect. Agree 100%.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Joanie said:


> I rarely feel that the sex between us is an act of love. He's got a high drive (as do I most often) and we take care of that need. We rarely kiss during sex, never speak and hop off the bed when we are done. We have sex on average of 5 times per week. He seems happy. Let me ask this....for the men who say they need to feel that their mate is "connected to them" during sex, what exactly makes you feel that way? Kissing..hugging...lot's of I love you's? Just curious.


I would never just jump out of bed after sex. 

I don't really need to feel 'connected' during sex. But I need to know I am desired. Most of the loving feeling I get occurs immediately after sex. When we are laying there satisfied and holding each other. This is also when we have our best conversations.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

> And you are getting that from the scenario presented. She is compartmentalizing. What is wrong with that?





honeysuckle rose said:


> I understand. It wouldn't feel so good...I am not IN love right now is the problem & I hate it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you answered your own question. Speaking for myself, I don't just want love. I want to be desired. Without that he might as well go to a prostitute.


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## Joanie (Oct 24, 2010)

Drover said:


> Perfect. Agree 100%.


What is exactly the love component that you have to have during sex? I love my guy...we have sex but I wouldn't call it loving sex. There is no kissing or hugging or any of that. More of taking care of an itch that is scratching. What is the love component during sex? I really want to know what men consider the love component?


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## Joanie (Oct 24, 2010)

Well, he jumps up out of bed faster than I do. So, IDK...I sometimes wish we laid in bed after basking in the "after glow" like we did when we first got together but it just doesn't happen anymore. Not just on my end, believe me.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

In her question she mentions that the woman is in love with her husband. But doesn't get any loving feelings out of having sex.

She later admitted that right now she isn't in love. No wonder there are no loving feelings.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> In her question she mentions that the woman is in love with her husband. But doesn't get any loving feelings out of having sex.
> 
> She later admitted that right now she isn't in love. No wonder there are no loving feelings.


Yeah, and no wonder he keeps porn on his phone. Lots more to this situation than we've heard.


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

How do you feel about your sex life? If you are both happy, and feel like there is plenty of romance and intimacy outside of the bedroom then who's to say that there's anything wrong with the way that you both feel about sex? 

Early in my marriage I would have probably said the same things. Then we had kids, we had period of time where we were disconnected emotionally, and finally we had a period of time where sex was physically difficult and then impossible. During those times I had to really think about what sex meant to me, and what I really got out of it. I had to look "under the hood" and discover what intimacy really meant to me and how sex filled a need in my soul. Eating fulfills a basic need, but sharing a bottle of wine over dinner and having a lovely chat is to really savor a meal.

In my experience getting naked is easy. Opening myself up to her so completely that my soul is naked before her was an act of faith in her. Learning how much I really got from sex took lovemaking to a completely new level for me. Sex with my wife can still be an act of animal passion. Sometimes it's an act of forgiveness, sometimes an act of asking for forgiveness and acceptance, but always a way to connect to each other. If that connection manifests itself in a sincere "I love you", it fills that need. If it manifests itself aggressive passion, it fills that need. I think the trick is being open to seeing it in all of it's forms.



Joanie said:


> I rarely feel that the sex between us is an act of love. He's got a high drive (as do I most often) and we take care of that need. We rarely kiss during sex, never speak and hop off the bed when we are done. We have sex on average of 5 times per week. He seems happy. Let me ask this....for the men who say they need to feel that their mate is "connected to them" during sex, what exactly makes you feel that way? Kissing..hugging...lot's of I love you's? Just curious.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

lamaga said:


> Yeah, and no wonder he keeps porn on his phone. Lots more to this situation than we've heard.


His continuous need to keep sexual images of exes or porn that looks like exes at the ready is why I don't feel in love. If he can compartmentalize, so can I. I love him, but am not in love with him-right now. It's hurtful & apparently I am just an insecure witch. 

This behavior makes me feel emotionally unsafe & willing to let him in. I can't help how I feel...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

honeysuckle rose said:


> His continuous need to keep sexual images of exes or porn that looks like exes at the ready is why I don't feel in love. If he can compartmentalize, so can I. I love him, but am not in love with him-right now. It's hurtful & apparently I am just an insecure witch.
> 
> This behavior makes me feel emotionally unsafe & willing to let him in. I can't help how I feel...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know your entire story.

But I know that if I had sexual images of any 'ex' on my phone, my wife wouldn't be feeling any love for me either.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

pplwatching said:


> I read a quote somewhere, perhaps from George Burns, "_The secret to a long and happy marriage is never being in love with each other at the same time._"
> 
> In my experience love for my wife is not the same from day to day or even month to month. Sometimes love is _that_ feeling and sex really creates and reinforces a deep and intimate connection. Other times love is in my actions; the things that I do for her even if I'm not completely "feeling it".
> 
> ...


What a beautiful post. It makes me so sad bcuz I am so far from this now, which is how we used to be. I am really hurt to the point that if we never had sex again it would be too soon. I want that connection & closeness, but am angry and afraid to open my heart yet again to end up in the same place another year down the road.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

honeysuckle rose said:


> His continuous need to keep sexual images of exes or porn that looks like exes at the ready is why I don't feel in love. If he can compartmentalize, so can I. I love him, but am not in love with him-right now. It's hurtful & apparently I am just an insecure witch.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I apologize for being new to this forum. I haven't had a chance to read other posts where you may have explained the situation more fully.

IMHO there is absolutely no justifyable reason to keep sexual pictures of exes (or porn that looks like is exes) around. You have every right to be upset about that, and he needs to consider how hurtful that is. He isn't with those women. They are in his past, but he's keeping them in the present. He's with you and needs to let the past be in the past. What does he say when you ask him to let those pictures go and focus on you?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

*what a terribly clever question*

Rose,
Main reason my W has sex with me because she loves me. The desire she feels, is the desire to please. Not so much lust. She is really good to me in bed. Like you described. Adventurous, enthusiastic. Maybe 1 time in 4 she has lust and desire. 

I am still the same guy she used to feel lust for prior to menopause. Glad she loves me - or we would be celibate. Well - hmmm - I wouldn't be celibate, but WE would be celibate. 





honeysuckle rose said:


> And you are getting that from the scenario presented. She is compartmentalizing. What is wrong with that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

pplwatching said:


> I apologize for being new to this forum. I haven't had a chance to read other posts where you may have explained the situation more fully.
> 
> IMHO there is absolutely no justifyable reason to keep sexual pictures of exes (or porn that looks like is exes) around. You have every right to be upset about that, and he needs to consider how hurtful that is. He isn't with those women. They are in his past, but he's keeping them in the present. He's with you and needs to let the past be in the past. What does he say when you ask him to let those pictures go and focus on you?


He says he understands & apologizes. But this is the second round. He asked me to please give him a chance to fix himself bcuz its a problem & not to give up on him. My detaching sex with him from love is my coping mechanism.

If his pics have nothing to do with me, then my having sex with him has nothing to do with him. Dumb, yes. But I am hurt & trying to cope...

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

The pictures are probably more of a symptom than the real problem. Throwing them away isn't going to fix the problem any more than letting yourself become detached about sex will. I suspect that you also feel less desirable and loved. That is an open door for an affair.

I think that a part of asking you not to give up on him should be an honest effort to share with you why he feels so compelled to keep these pictures around. Sexual excitement? Emotional attachment? Once you know that you can begin to address the real issue and begin to heal your marriage. 

I know that you are hurting, but if you want your marriage to survive you are going to have to look past the hurt and make the effort to save your marriage. 

I wish you the best.



honeysuckle rose said:


> He says he understands & apologizes. But this is the second round. He asked me to please give him a chance to fix himself bcuz its a problem & not to give up on him. My detaching sex with him from love is my coping mechanism.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

And then there is the picture taking of a random woman in the street...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

pplwatching said:


> The pictures are probably more of a symptom than the real problem. Throwing them away isn't going to fix the problem any more than letting yourself become detached about sex will. I suspect that you also feel less desirable and loved. That is an open door for an affair.
> 
> I think that a part of asking you not to give up on him should be an honest effort to share with you why he feels so compelled to keep these pictures around. Sexual excitement? Emotional attachment? Once you know that you can begin to address the real issue and begin to heal your marriage.
> 
> ...


Thank you very, very much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

You should have given the background in your initial post. Given this information I can certainly understand how you would feel this way. Can you just ask him why he wants to keep those pictures?


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## MrVanilla (Apr 24, 2012)

pplwatching said:


> IMHO there is absolutely no justifyable reason to keep sexual pictures of exes (or porn that looks like is exes) around. You have every right to be upset about that, and he needs to consider how hurtful that is. He isn't with those women. They are in his past, but he's keeping them in the present. He's with you and needs to let the past be in the past.


I couldn't agree more -and btw, I'm a guy- the past should stay in the past. In as much as he is keeping these pictures, my W is keeping her memories of sex acts she used to enjoy with men in her past... things we've never done together and things she wants to do now. might this be why I'm so reluctant? She's with me now, and needs to let the past be the past. I think this kind of hurt can go both ways, and I agree that we have to look past it to fix what we have.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> I don't know your entire story.
> 
> But I know that if I had sexual images of any 'ex' on my phone, my wife wouldn't be feeling any love for me either.


And yet, she doesn't think she should ask him NOT to have those things, because she finds it disrespectful. She thinks, essentially, that she should just sulk here and complain, rather than truly discuss it with him. To tell him how she feels about it... How she REALLY feels about it.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Here is the 'rest of the story' :

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/48658-saving-porn-your-fone-computer.html


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Maricha75 said:


> And yet, she doesn't think she should ask him NOT to have those things, because she finds it disrespectful. She thinks, essentially, that she should just sulk here and complain, rather than truly discuss it with him. To tell him how she feels about it... How she REALLY feels about it.


Thank you for you wasting your time sharing how pathetic you think I am. But, you just can't stay away...(amused by you). I read part of why you are here. Sorry you went thru 2 emotional affairs and had problems. But if you don't have anything constructive to say why even bother? does it make you feel better about yourself? are you missing the combat in world of warcraft? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

honeysuckle rose said:


> Thank you for you wasting your time sharing how pathetic you think I am. But, you just can't stay away...(amused by you). I read part of why you are here. Sorry you went thru 2 emotional affairs and had problems. But if you don't have anything constructive today why even bother?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


HR, I DID have constructive things to say. I WAS backing you up. And then, you started attacking people. Why is that? We were honestly trying to get to the root of why you were upset. And, once we did, you lashed out.

Yes, I had 2 EAs. Obviously I have no problem admitting that, since I came here asking people for advice. And, yes, my husband had one as well. But the thing is, we actually, really communicated about them. And we are moving past them. 

Why are you amused by me? Just curious....


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Maricha75 said:


> HR, I DID have constructive things to say. I WAS backing you up. And then, you started attacking people. Why is that? We were honestly trying to get to the root of why you were upset. And, once we did, you lashed out.
> 
> Yes, I had 2 EAs. Obviously I have no problem admitting that, since I came here asking people for advice. And, yes, my husband had one as well. But the thing is, we actually, really communicated about them. And we are moving past them.
> 
> Why are you amused by me? Just curious....


you just seem to be very hostile towards me and I don't understand. if I have already been through this with him once and I am in the same position a year, later I am sorry if I'm hurt and I don't have the right response in your estimation. 

We talked. He did it again, but with porn that LOOKED like an ex. what am I supposed to do with that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

honeysuckle rose said:


> you just seem to be very hostile towards me and I don't understand. if I have already been through this with him once and I am in the same position a year, later I am sorry if I'm hurt and I don't have the right response in your estimation.
> 
> We talked. He did it again, but with porn that LOOKED like an ex. what am I supposed to do with that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You do what I suggested in your other thread. If it bothers you, REALLY talk about it. 



Maricha75 said:


> Ok, so these are nearly all of your posts in this thread. So, WHY would you ASK him to remove porn pics? Not just any porn pics, but ones that resemble an ex? Ok, from what I gathered, by going back and re-reading your posts, porn, in general, you are ok with. It's the pics resembling his ex that bother you. Why would you NOT ask for those SPECIFIC ones deleted? If you are ok with porn in general, how do you not see this suggestion as a possible compromise? I'm going to guess that in THIS case, you are, indeed, worried that he will see it as insecurity. Whether you want to admit it or not, that is how you feel. The thought that he is looking at pics of women who look like his ex has you concerned that he is wishing he had stayed with her...even with him saying he wants the marriage to work. You will probably deny that suggestion, which is fine. But, honestly? That is what it looks like. You are afraid that if you ask him to get rid of THOSE pics, he will see how insecure you are, as far as the EX is concerned.


Also, regarding hostility toward you: I wasn't, until you started attacking people who were posting on your other thread.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Maricha75 said:


> You do what I suggested in your other thread. If it bothers you, REALLY talk about it.


I know that you are right and I appreciate your advice. but here I go again. It's not going to change..I am discouraged and I just feel like I should give up because there's no point. I am really low on faith right now. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dream_weaver (Jun 5, 2012)

Honeysuckle_rose-I feel for what you are going through....I lost trust in my husband due to his gambling & if they have hurt you more than once it's hard to trust them again.I went through the motions of sex with him & now that I am repartnered I see the difference with sex that has love (and trust).How can you give all of you to someone who doesn't reciprocate?He's got these other women in his head so how is he giving himself completely to you?
You have to make the hard decision whether he can give you what you need to be able to rebuild you relationship.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

honeysuckle rose said:


> If his pics have nothing to do with me, then my having sex with him has nothing to do with him. Dumb, yes. But I am hurt & trying to cope...
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You`re setting yourself and him up for some serious pain.

:scratchhead:


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

tacoma, could it be any worse than the pain i feel now? what he is doing isn't right FOR ME and my reaction isn't right FOR US. however, i feel stuck and like it's deja vu all over again...i'm sad and hurt and discouraged...how could this be normal or ok?


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

dream_weaver said:


> Honeysuckle_rose-I feel for what you are going through....I lost trust in my husband due to his gambling & if they have hurt you more than once it's hard to trust them again.I went through the motions of sex with him & now that I am repartnered I see the difference with sex that has love (and trust).How can you give all of you to someone who doesn't reciprocate?He's got these other women in his head so how is he giving himself completely to you?
> You have to make the hard decision whether he can give you what you need to be able to rebuild you relationship.


I agree. We used to have love and trust, but I can't see past my nose right now. Trying to give it time. He's not a bad guy. Why do these things have to be so fraught with complications?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

honeysuckle rose said:


> tacoma, could it be any worse than the pain i feel now? what he is doing isn't right FOR ME and my reaction isn't right FOR US. however, i feel stuck and like it's deja vu all over again...i'm sad and hurt and discouraged...how could this be normal or ok?


It`s not honey, it`s not ok.

It`s not right for him to be taking pics of strange women in the streets.

It`s not ok for him to be openly coveting an ex.

The pics/vids you said look like his Ex.
Has he told you he has them because they look like her or is this your assumption?

I`m only asking because many people have a "type" and they are attracted to that type almost always.
Could it be a situation like that?

Do many of his Ex`s have similar features?
That`s a clue to what "type" he has if they do and if they do maybe it`s not as bad as you think.

What has he said about all this stuff to you?


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

I've seen his significant exes and they all resemble each other. The ONE porn pic on his phone looked like these women, who look NOTHING like me. 

He does have a type, but says his tastes are broader, as well. Um, what? What is that to say to your wife who is hurting? I am understanding and as compromising as hell, but really?

He says he wants to be with me. While I believe this, it's really hurtful to find pics a year later that look like an ex. Last year they were the actual photos of the exes. He said he thought because it was porn it was ok. 

I'm in the Twilight Zone. You think you get off the hook because of a technicality? That's unreal to me. 

I go through bouts of being hopeful because I know he loves me. But this is not how love is supposed to feel IMO. I am trying to change my reaction, but it just feels like *I* am the one who is trying to change something that is a wholly natural response.

I am not typically an unreasonable or jealous woman. He is friends with exes and people he considered dating. I don't mind; I have met them and like these women. But, this stings. And twice? I feel like a damn fool.

He said maybe he needs counseling. I said no, but the more I think about it, maybe he does...


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

honeysuckle rose said:


> tacoma, could it be any worse than the pain i feel now? what he is doing isn't right FOR ME and my reaction isn't right FOR US. however, i feel stuck and like it's deja vu all over again...i'm sad and hurt and discouraged...how could this be normal or ok?


It isn't normal. And it isn't ok. This is the 2nd time he is doing this to you. And you do NOT have to be ok with it. He is being disrespectful. As hard as it is, you know what you have to do... You have to talk to him about how you're feeling. You already said that porn, and pics themselves, aren't the issue...it's the TYPE of pics... it's the TYPE of woman. He knows this is a sore spot for you.But, if there is any hope of you feeling that love for him again, at all, you need to talk to him, and, he does need to get rid of those particular pics.



honeysuckle rose said:


> I agree. We used to have love and trust, but I can't see past my nose right now. Trying to give it time. He's not a bad guy. Why do these things have to be so fraught with complications?


You brought my EAs (and, because I replied, I brought my husband's) into the discussion. My husband's OW looks a lot like me... I mean A LOT. When I showed her Facebook page to my sister and my mother shortly after coming clean to the entire family (I made us accountable to all the family: my parents, his mom, and my sisters... plus a few mutual friends), they were shocked. She seriously could pass as my sister. Similar build, same eye color, same hair color (except I had dyed mine red... I am natural blonde). She had sent him a half naked pic of herself. When the EA was discovered, and the NC text was sent, her pic was deleted. It was a two-fold reason. 1. The whole EA situation. 2. If he's gonna have any pics of women who look like me on his phone, they're damn well gonna be pics of me!

The reason I am telling you this: it really doesn't matter who the pics look like. What matters is how it makes you feel. In this case, you are uncomfortable with pics looking like exes. I am uncomfortable with pics that look like me. Either way, my husband respected my wish for the pic to be removed. Your husband should do the same.

Now, why are these things fraught with complications? Because we are human. We ALWAYS complicate things in some way or another.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Maricha75, you are right. And you are way more woman than I think I could ever be. I wouldn't know how to forgive and let that go. I really respect you and appreciate your input. 

We spoke briefly tonight and are going to get into a more meaningful conversation when we get home (we both travel for work). 

It doesn't matter who the pictures look like. It's how I feel and we have to get to the bottom of why he continues to do this, why it is disrespectful and if he can change. If he can't, we both need to move on. 

Thank you so much.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

dream_weaver said:


> Honeysuckle_rose-I feel for what you are going through....I lost trust in my husband due to his gambling & if they have hurt you more than once it's hard to trust them again.I went through the motions of sex with him & now that I am repartnered I see the difference with sex that has love (and trust).How can you give all of you to someone who doesn't reciprocate?He's got these other women in his head so how is he giving himself completely to you?
> You have to make the hard decision whether he can give you what you need to be able to rebuild you relationship.


DW, I am so glad you have found someone who shares with you completely and you know what trusting love and sex is. I used to know...I do have some hard decisions to make. I can't settle for the BS anymore.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

That scenario is fine with me.
Everyone has a different way that they feel love. commonly known as love languages. to be upset that she isn't emotionally connected with me after sex is projecting on her. 
That scenario is good because she loves me enough to make my needs a priority.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

honeysuckle rose said:


> I've seen his significant exes and they all resemble each other. The ONE porn pic on his phone looked like these women, who look NOTHING like me.


Ok, please understand I`m not sugar coating anything for you.
You and I already kinda got off on the wrong foot so I have no reason to sugar coat anything.
Just ask around here, I`m pretty damn blunt, too blunt.


It doesn`t matter that you aren`t his "type", doesn`t matter a bit.
Doesn`t matter to him and I know this because I have a very specific type.

I melt over little petite brunettes with blue eyes.
Always have, always will.

All this means is that a little petite brunette with blue eyes is going to get a lot of leeway from me in the physical appearance department.

She can be chubbier than I`d accept most women, she can be *****ier, less graceful just about anything because she has a head start by having core qualities I find inherently attractive.

Does this mean that if a hot looking statuesque blonde shows interest in me I`m going to blow her off?
Does it mean that being with a voluptuous redhead is less fulfilling than being with a petite brunette?
No.
Ain`t no way in hell I`d pass on any attractive woman who I clicked with regardless if she was my "type" or not

I can enjoy a low quality chocolate ice cream because I have a penchant for chocolate but I`m very likely to pass by that low quality chocolate ice cream for some of the high grade home made, pure sugar cane, fresh vanilla bean ice cream sitting next to it.



> He does have a type, but says his tastes are broader, as well. Um, what? What is that to say to your wife who is hurting? I am understanding and as compromising as hell, but really?


He means what I just so clumsily tried to relate above with my stupid ice cream analogy.



> He says he wants to be with me. While I believe this, it's really hurtful to find pics a year later that look like an ex.


Again, did he say he had these because they look like his Ex or does he have them because they are his "type"?
Has he verbalized this?
It makes a huge difference whether he`s pining for an actual Ex or just enjoying a view towards his natural inclination.



> Last year they were the actual photos of the exes. He said he thought because it was porn it was ok.


WTF?
Were these new pics of his Ex or old pics he`s had for a long time?
Either way this isn`t acceptable and you should put your foot down about it.



> I'm in the Twilight Zone. You think you get off the hook because of a technicality? That's unreal to me.


It`s bull**** and disrespectful and he knows it.
You shouldn`t tolerate it.



> I go through bouts of being hopeful because I know he loves me. But this is not how love is supposed to feel IMO. I am trying to change my reaction, but it just feels like *I* am the one who is trying to change something that is a wholly natural response.


We have all kinds of "Natural" responses.
As a male I`m "Naturally" inclined to inseminate every and any woman I can get my hands on.
I don`t indulge in this natural inclination because it would destroy my life and cause immense pain.
The concept of ethics exists to keep humans from following "natural" inclinations that will cause us harm.



> He said maybe he needs counseling. I said no, but the more I think about it, maybe he does...


I`m not one who usually advises counseling but maybe it might be helpful in teaching him a bit of empathy.

If you get counseling I`d go with marriage counseling as a couple.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Tacoma, thank you so much for your thorough and revealing (about men) response to my last post. 

I don't think he's hung up on those exes. I think he does have a type and that is his #1 type. I dunno. Makes me a lot less interested/motivated in sticking around for much of anything. 

From this woman's POV, it colors everything about our relationship and exchanges, hence my equating sex with him with brushing my teeth (well, no, I HAVE to brush my teeth...:rofl

The photos on his phone last year were old photos of the exes. This year we were treated to porn pics that resembled the exes. 

You and Marich75 are right. It doesn't matter if those women look like me or not and it doesn't matter if I'm his type or not. I feel not in love w/ him (now) & feel less than I did last year and certainly less than last week. Childish? Immature? Most definitely. Intellectually I understand what you are saying. And your ice cream analogy was far more eloquent than what he put so crassly.

We are both returning home from work trips tomorrow. Part of me gets happy/excited about seeing him. And the larger part of me is thinking, "What's the point?" It is what it is & I can't see it changing. I can only see the weird & hurtful-to-me behavior being more deftly executed.

He is a HIGHLY sexual person and porn and/or taking photos of other women must feed some kind of compulsion in him. I am in no way saying he's addicted to porn. I just don't know how to 'forgive and forget' or move on -- again!

I will listen and am willing to talk. I guess I have to see where it goes...

Thank you so much.


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

I need love, I need to release my daily stresses, I need to feel my wife underneath me so I can feel safe, I need to smell my wife's neck to feel at home, I need to hear my wife's moan to get that inner calmness, like listening to classical music.... but we move to her heartbeat, like jazz music. I need to feel her acceptance, her wants, her desires... I need sex. 

That's all part of it for me, I would never cheat but if you made sex only physical I'd rather be alone and with a hooker. Men, like women, are also needy and a lot women are too selfish to ever understand, everything your great husband provides that gives you your inner peace and complacency, he needs as well.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Aristotle said:


> I need love, I need to release my daily stresses, I need to feel my wife underneath me so I can feel safe, I need to smell my wife's neck to feel at home, I need to hear my wife's moan to get that inner calmness, like listening to classical music, but we move like jazz music. I need to feel her acceptance, he wants, her desires... I need sex.
> 
> That's all part of it for me, I would never cheat but if you made sex only physical I'd rather be alone and with a hooker. Men, like women, are also needy and a lot women are too selfish to ever understand, everything your great husband provides that gives you your inner peace and complacency, he needs as well.


I want everything you have and I used to have it. But he's no longer such a great guy which is why I'm in this predicament. I would rather be by myself then with someone who would spend a lot of energy looking for photographs online that look like his ex in pornographic situations. is that supposed to make me feel bonded to him and that we have something special? That we are sharing in this loving and intimate experience? call me crazy but somehow it just does not. I do not feel safe, I do not feel special, I feel like I'm brushing my teeth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

If he isn't a great guy, a poor husband... I understand. MC


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Aristotle said:


> If he isn't a great guy, a poor husband... I understand. MC


I am hurt. He is a great guy. Its his behavior that is not so great right now. I think mc is the thing we need to do. 

I have a lot of resentment and this is the second time with this situation. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Wisdom and clarity in the post below. 




pplwatching said:


> How do you feel about your sex life? If you are both happy, and feel like there is plenty of romance and intimacy outside of the bedroom then who's to say that there's anything wrong with the way that you both feel about sex?
> 
> Early in my marriage I would have probably said the same things. Then we had kids, we had period of time where we were disconnected emotionally, and finally we had a period of time where sex was physically difficult and then impossible. During those times I had to really think about what sex meant to me, and what I really got out of it. I had to look "under the hood" and discover what intimacy really meant to me and how sex filled a need in my soul. Eating fulfills a basic need, but sharing a bottle of wine over dinner and having a lovely chat is to really savor a meal.
> 
> In my experience getting naked is easy. Opening myself up to her so completely that my soul is naked before her was an act of faith in her. Learning how much I really got from sex took lovemaking to a completely new level for me. Sex with my wife can still be an act of animal passion. Sometimes it's an act of forgiveness, sometimes an act of asking for forgiveness and acceptance, but always a way to connect to each other. If that connection manifests itself in a sincere "I love you", it fills that need. If it manifests itself aggressive passion, it fills that need. I think the trick is being open to seeing it in all of it's forms.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

The flip side to not masturbating for the sake of a purely physical release.....

A spouse that hounds you for sex. A spouse that says they NEED to get off everyday, and it's your job to be that vessel. A spouse that gets angry when you won't wear hooker-wear and act out a porno, because you are, after all, a woman, and he NEEDS that purely animal sex once in awhile. A spouse that says he truely does want you to just fvck, all the time, without any emotional connection. "just do it".

There is sex, and there is making love.Some are just comfortable being sexual, and expressing fantasies.

How would you feel if your husband came to you every time he was horny... and you knew it was just because he was horny? He would feel like you do now. Don't you think he knows you are "just doing it"? 

There is a point here to this.
He does respect you. He does NOT respect his ex. Her image is the one he is using to masturbate? She's only worthy of the fantasy being played out in his head. The hooker one. She's the one being used for sex. Nothing more. She's the one he views as a (insert whatever nasty term fits). she's his ideal s1ut. Good for her.


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## Unit4 (Mar 15, 2009)

Bingo-



seeking sanity said:


> A guy wants his woman to feel desire for him: Desire manifests in juicy, fun sex. Lack of desire manifests in what you are describing. Most of us feel sh*tty about sex that comes from lack of desire. And as loving as our women are for their willingness to accommodate our ego and libido, it feels lousy and makes one feel like less of a man than the guy who's woman truly desires him.


I'd add that when lovemaking frequency becomes fixed, or feels negotiated, it may be better than zero, but is no longer fulfilling. Eroticism has its own checkbox, for men, and checking it is hopeless without desire.


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

honeysuckle rose said:


> You & your wife have a good relationship & she is very loving toward you. Never turns you down. Initiates sometimes. Is enthusiastic & adventurous. But you found out she does it to be loving, as she does love you. However, sex and love have become separate for her.
> 
> She enjoys having sex with you, but that's all it is. There is no emotional connect for her with you during sex. How would you feel & would you want to figure out why and how to change that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To me sex and love are two different things . Sex does not show love . Not does it make me love my wife more or less . the effect love has on sex for me is love makes sex with my wife mean something to me because my wife means something to me . It does not make the sex better or worse . how I communicate , the things I do , the man I am for her , the respect I give her , that is how I show my love for my wife . we all have different views and values on aspects of our relationships with our spouse . I try to always remember that when we don't view things the same way . Things mean different , but not more or less . Just different
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

morituri said:


> If sex and touch is not important to you, does that mean that you would not be devastated if your husband was having sex on the sly?


Surely you don't think infidelity is in any way remotely the same as not getting love via sex
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

walkingwounded said:


> My H told me the other week that to him sex was "just" sex. That it is just a physical act. So I said I could be just anyone then?
> 
> He said no. He has since backpedaled but I am still devastated. And I am the woman. I cannot understand it this way around.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sex is just a physical act . It is not the sex that means something to him . Yes he can have sex with woman and it would be god our bad depending on the sex .and you could have sex with anyone also .everyone can . What has meaning for your husband is you, his wife , his partner , the woman that he loves . sex with you has meaning because you have meaning . I hope that helps you understand . Oh and I hope that helps with your devastation . If sex with you were no different to him than any other woman , then you should be devastated
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

I


honeysuckle rose said:


> I am hurt. He is a great guy. Its his behavior that is not so great right now. I think mc is the thing we need to do.
> 
> I have a lot of resentment and this is the second time with this situation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



His behaviour is a direct reflection of what kind of guy he is . A great guy wouldnt treat his spouse like this . There is absolutely no reason for anyone who is in a relationship to have pictures if their ex on their phone . Women who resemble her are another matter . Everyone does have a preferred type . Just because you are his preferred type does not mean that you are not his type . My preferred is spanish, dark curly hair, dark eyes . Yet I have never been with this type and my wife is irish. it is obvious from your posts that this is not a good relationship for you to be in . That being said you only deserve what you are willing to settle for . But when all is said and done why punish yourself by having bad sex. since nothing else is good in this relationship at least let the sex be good .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Joanie said:


> I rarely feel that the sex between us is an act of love. He's got a high drive (as do I most often) and we take care of that need. We rarely kiss during sex, never speak and hop off the bed when we are done. We have sex on average of 5 times per week. He seems happy. Let me ask this....for the men who say they need to feel that their mate is "connected to them" during sex, what exactly makes you feel that way? Kissing..hugging...lot's of I love you's? Just curious.


For me, it's a lot of everything. Her touch, her smell, being with her, releasing in her, saying I love you, looking into her eyes, feeling her lips on mine, our hands interlocking, her body moving when she is on top, accepting my being into hers. Yes, sex itself is great, orgasming is great, but it would feel hollow and worthless if it wasn't shared with my fiancee. Feeling her body pressed against mine, holding her close, it's a special bond you get with just one person on this planet. I can't imagine being with anyone else and I can't imagine getting that feeling with anyone else. The thought of being with someone else makes me feel ill because I get such a strong, emotional feeling with her.

It's like an addiction, you need they feeling every so often, not just to release, but to be with that special love of your life and share yourself with her, and share her with yourself.



GhostRydr said:


> The first mistake a man makes is trying to decipher the thought process of a woman and why she thinks the way she does.
> 
> If she is adventerous, loves having sex, etc...let it be. We as men shouldnt care how she has emotionally arrived at her feeling.


I care, and I care because I want her to get to that feeling again. I care also because I want her to care about me that way.



MrVanilla said:


> I couldn't agree more -and btw, I'm a guy- the past should stay in the past. In as much as he is keeping these pictures, my W is keeping her memories of sex acts she used to enjoy with men in her past... things we've never done together and things she wants to do now. might this be why I'm so reluctant? She's with me now, and needs to let the past be the past. I think this kind of hurt can go both ways, and I agree that we have to look past it to fix what we have.


Have you asked her about why she wants to do these types of sex again? Is it really a chance to revisit the past?

I have a desire to redo some sexual things from my past as well with my fiancee, but it's because I want to associate her with those memories. Memories are something which can be triggered by almost anything sometimes it seems, and if I have a memory triggered sexually about a past girlfriend or my ex-wife, I'd be much more happy if I could associate that memory with my fiancee instead. She's my world, and I want all of the good times to be about her and thinking of her. Maybe that's what your wife is trying to do as well? If so, it seems more like an act of love than an act of sex or recapturing her past.



stoney1215 said:


> *To me sex and love are two different things .* Sex does not show love . Not does it make me love my wife more or less . *the effect love has on sex for me is love makes sex with my wife mean something to me because my wife means something to me .* It does not make the sex better or worse . how I communicate , the things I do , the man I am for her , the respect I give her , that is how I show my love for my wife . we all have different views and values on aspects of our relationships with our spouse . I try to always remember that when we don't view things the same way . Things mean different , but not more or less . Just different
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think if you read the bolded, they contradict each other. Because you love your wife, it makes sex mean something to you. Love has an affect on sex. Not on the physical part, like you stated, but on the mental and emotional part, which, to me personally, is the best part of sex. Love and sex go together in a marriage.


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

i couldnt disagree more deejov . making love ? what is that supposed to be ? like in the movies or romance novels . the love i make with my wife happens every day in my words , my support , my devotion , my respect , my loyalty , and my support . i have sex with my wife because i am aroused by her , sex with her is fulfilling , fun , and exciting , and it turns me on just to be near her . if my wife " just did it " that would signify to me a major problem in our relationship . my wife no longer is aroused , turned on , and excited by me . which is something i would try to remedy as soon as it came to my attention . and to have pictures of his ex is most certainly disrespectful to his wife . how could he have respect for her when he desires his ex more than her ? the ex is not being used for sex , he is not having sex with her . his wife is the one being used for sex while he plays out his fantasy in his head .


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> For me, it's a lot of everything. Her touch, her smell, being with her, releasing in her, saying I love you, looking into her eyes, feeling her lips on mine, our hands interlocking, her body moving when she is on top, accepting my being into hers. Yes, sex itself is great, orgasming is great, but it would feel hollow and worthless if it wasn't shared with my fiancee. Feeling her body pressed against mine, holding her close, it's a special bond you get with just one person on this planet. I can't imagine being with anyone else and I can't imagine getting that feeling with anyone else. The thought of being with someone else makes me feel ill because I get such a strong, emotional feeling with her.
> 
> It's like an addiction, you need they feeling every so often, not just to release, but to be with that special love of your life and share yourself with her, and share her with yourself.
> 
> ...


it does not contradict . it is not the sex that has meaning , it is my wife . because i love my wife , it makes SEX WITH HER mean something to me . it does not make SEX mean something to me . the mental and emotional part come from her and the feelings i have for her . 
my wife and i are " swingers " and have had sex with men , women , and couples . i have had amazing sex with ohther women and her with other men . some of the best sex we have had has been with other people . even though the sex is with someone else it is still something i share with my wife and i still get the same emotional feeling from the encounter .


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

men and women view everything differently as a general rule . just because we do not get the same meaning from something does not mean anything other than we do not get the same meaning from it . my wife thinks of sex as her giving herself to me . i do not . i think being vulnerable and sharing my potentially emasculating thought with my wife as giving myself to her . she puts a high value on her body , i put a low value on mine . i put a high value on my vulnerability and my thoughts , she puts a low value on hers . different obviously but just because we value different things differently does not mean we dont value each other as a whole the same .


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