# Another type of infidelity



## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

I am not sure where to post my conundrum. I do not think there has been infidelity of the sexual or romantic kind in our marriage but rather an infidelity of the heart and mind. I feel (and we have discussed) that my wife is becoming more distant in our relationship. "People just grow apart" as she had recently commented (referring to a tv show “The Little People” and their impending divorce), "Perhaps people weren’t meant to be together that long" (referring to the said couple’s 28 yrs of marriage).

My wife and I have been married 26 + yrs. It has been up & down like many I am sure. Never bliss and solid, but not outright mean either. My wife is a unique person, unlike many many women I know (family , friends, acquaintances). She is almost literally a rocket scientist, multiples degrees, high level employee in an authoritative position, yet she looks like a hot porn star, tastily done. She is not overly sexual, shy at times, but she enjoys looking good. She is over 50 but looks 30. Our sex life is good, once a week, not too freaky but not boring either. I love her to death, I am super turned on. She is a great mom to our two young kids. She is otherwise self centered. She has no patience for mediocrity and her achievement bar is very high. She tells it like it is and doesn't care who you are, she doesn't know what couth is and she has very little empathy for others. She commands the spot light, otherwise she is pissed.

Those described qualities are what I have been dealing with for many years. 50 % of time she is the loving wife, caring mom, fun family person. The other 50% she is the workaholic, out alone shopaholic, arrogant, self-absorbed, carefree, single hot gal.

She was sort of this way when we were younger. 6 years into our marriage, without kids, she had an affair with a married co-worker, we almost split up then, she pleaded for forgiveness. 20 yrs later, 6yrs ago, I started to worry about the future, I felt her drifting away, I got no sense of her concern over our future. I addressed my discontent and confrontation ensured, we both started counseling. Fast forward to today, it feels like I have been on a merry-go-round or roller coaster. For 6yrs we have been in a dance, dancing around what the real problem is , all the while kicking the can down the road. The events of the past 6yrs are plenty, there are highs & lows. 

Over the last few days, due to some strange feelings, it has been eating at me more, to where I am physically feeling the pain. I can’t work, I can’t sleep, I can’t get it out of my head. I am a wreck, I am jealous, I am scared, I want to cry like a 4 yr old. 
On one hand I can’t imagine not being with her , I can’t imagine her being with someone else.
Yet we can’t stay together , this can’t go on. She claims she feels for me, claims she loves me. But I have heard those words before.
I feel she is nonparticipant in our marriage, she is nonparticipant in my life, she promotes the idea of individuality. That’s nice but every single day , week over week, month over month? I do not feel her interest in seeing me. I feel she has categorized me as a household fixture. I feel taken for granted.

I don’t know what to do. I am struggling with the concept of divorce.

I have read a few posts here on this website and quite frankly they are overwhelming and sad. Kudos to those members who are able to offer valuable help. My hat is always off to volunteers of any kind.

Thanks for allowing me to express my feelings. Please comment if you can.

Al


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

Have you guys talked about what each of you expect and need out of the marriage? It sounds like you are focused on intimacy more than she is. If you can sit down and do this, and agree one or both of you are not going to change, or can change, then you have your answer. I don't think it needs to be more complicated than that.

Do you have to walk on egg shells to talk about your marriage? If so you are probably a doormat. And to a most women, and even more so to one whom clearly admires strength, that is the death of passion.

To be honest maybe doing a 180 is what you need. You are the weaker hand in the marriage because you apparently have unmet needs and are choosing (as many of us have) to deal with it from a position of weakness rather than strength. Consider that the ingredient you need to save your marriage is a willingness to leave your marriage to be happy. Despite what you say, you are not there emotionally yet from what I read.

All this said, if you are seeing counselors, I can't imagine my advice is more poignant, valuable, and appropriate than what they offer with their experience and knowing more about you.


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

Obvious advice/question: how do you know she's not cheating (or planning to)?

You can't fix a marriage with a secret affair going on, so step 1, determine that isn't the case.


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

ScrambledEggs said:


> Have you guys talked about what each of you expect and need out of the marriage? No we have not really discussed this. It's probably been glossed over all these years. I will make it the focus of our next sit down. It sounds like you are focused on intimacy more than she is. You are probably correct. There are probably other issues going on for me in this regard. I am working with a counselor to flesh them out. If you can sit down and do this, and agree one or both of you are not going to change, or can change, then you have your answer. I don't think it needs to be more complicated than that. I agree
> 
> Do you have to walk on egg shells to talk about your marriage? If so you are probably a doormat. And to a most women, and even more so to one whom clearly admires strength, that is the death of passion. I agree, I do not know if I really am a doormat
> 
> ...


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

ReidWright said:


> Obvious advice/question: how do you know she's not cheating (or planning to)?
> 
> You can't fix a marriage with a secret affair going on, so step 1, determine that isn't the case.


I don't know if she's cheating physically. I do think she is cheating emotionally. It has been said to me that if / when a women cheats physically there are tell tale signs. There really have not been any changes in our sex life / routine for 26 yrs (well there was a brief period early on where we went every 2 weeks instead of once a week). I do think she is the cat's meow for all the guys that work around her. I do think she is bantering with one if not more guys perhaps in a way that is just not right... She works in a man's field, she is a dynamo, strong and tough yet, like I said before, she loves to look good, she loves the attention.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Why do you think she's cheating emotionally?

And, sorry you're going through this.


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## allwillbewell (Dec 13, 2012)

Sharps, sorry for your anxiety and pain.

Best case scenario is that your marriage is going through the typical disconnect due to familiarity, boredom, loss of respect, indifference, routine, etc. They all do to a certain degree. Solving this may not be easy, but it can be done by partners who are fully invested in reinvigorating a marriage...hundred of books, websites, marriage counselors out there who could help. 

Worse case scenario is that she is having an affair. While you share that your wife had an affair many years ago, you dance around the return of this issue in your OP. Your gut/instinct is telling you something is very wrong and when trying to express this to your wife you get push back and confrontation. Always when in doubt trust your gut. I repeat: TRUST YOUR GUT. 

You need to determine whether she is having a PA or EA...both can be the source of her indifference towards you. Your description of her describes the type of personality that justifies affairs very easily. Her confrontational attitude is another red flag. I assume you have read the first post on this forum for newbies. Become educated on the warning signs of affairs. As much as you may hate to do it and be disgusted by it, you may have to start snooping: are cell phones, email accounts and social media sites she is a member of open to you or password protected? 

If you can reassure yourself without a doubt that she is NOT having some kind of affair, then you need to work on the remaining issue of her disconnecting from you. Scrambled Eggs is right: neediness, clinging, possessiveness by one partner is not attractive no matter what gender. The power dynamic in a marriage works best if it is balanced. Is she willing to sit down and verbalize just what her expectations/goals/future she sees in your marriage? Can you do the same? Are your expectations realistic? If not, can compromise be found? By both of you? 

" I feel she is nonparticipant in our marriage, she is nonparticipant in my life, she promotes the idea of individuality. That’s nice but every single day , week over week, month over month? I do not feel her interest in seeing me. I feel she has categorized me as a household fixture. I feel taken for granted." These are your own words and they must be expressed by you to her and she needs to understand you are at this very lonely place. I would recommend the help of a good marriage counselor to help both of you to understand each other. If she refuses to go, find yourself a counselor to help you deal with this on an individual basis and help you prepare for what the future may hold if she fails to see the precipice she is standing on in regards to her marriage.

And yes, this kind of disconnect is a form of betrayal in my opinion.


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

marduk said:


> Why do you think she's cheating emotionally?
> 
> And, sorry you're going through this.


She thrives on attention. She seems to not need it from me. Last year during a big blow where I took her phone (I eventually gave it back without being able to look) she admitted there were things on it that I wouldn't understand, they are just friends she exclaimed. I died that night. From that point on I figured with her personality, given the field of work she is in she was probably bantering to some degree. I have, but my phone is family public. 

I am thinking this weekend's sit down, I want the phone unlocked. I have heard some pp say that may be unreasonable of me. They talk about privacy. Well searching on here and other places I am not so sure. Perhaps privacy in the bathroom that's it. I think that will be my approach.


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## allwillbewell (Dec 13, 2012)

Please read and make available to her "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Has your counselor said anything about her possibly having a personality disorder?

How does your occupation compare to hers?
How does she handle her phone? Is she trAnsparent with her email,texts, phone etc?


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

How did you find out about her first affair? Did she confess or did she get caught?

If she didn't want you to look at her phone that is a major red flag.

Check out the Standard Evidence Post by @ weightlifter DO NOT confront before you read that and get more input. If you sit her down for a talk before you are ready you are making a huge mistake.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

sharps said:


> She thrives on attention. She seems to not need it from me. Last year during a big blow where I took her phone (I eventually gave it back without being able to look) she admitted there were things on it that I wouldn't understand, they are just friends she exclaimed. I died that night. From that point on I figured with her personality, given the field of work she is in she was probably bantering to some degree. I have, but my phone is family public.
> 
> I am thinking this weekend's sit down, I want the phone unlocked. I have heard some pp say that may be unreasonable of me. They talk about privacy. Well searching on here and other places I am not so sure. Perhaps privacy in the bathroom that's it. I think that will be my approach.


If she is so strong, successful, and gets a lot of attention from guys, and she is as self centered as you say, why do you think she stays with you? What does she get out of being married to you. 

A lot of guys come here with a similar story, but usually there is some obvious thing glueing the marriage together, such as economic dependency of the wife, children, ect... Why do you think she cares to stay married to you? This is not a loaded question but one that I think could be informative.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The phone behavior points directly to an affair. Forget talking to her. Its time to put a var in her car.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

What you are describing is called "emotional withholding" and it is a form of abuse. Take a look: 
When Your Partner Stops Giving: The Silent Pain of Emotional Withholding -


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Read Blink by Gladwell. You are upset because your subconscious thinks she is probably cheating while your conscious is trying to catch up. Don't know exactly what this means but it sounds bad, "she admitted there were things on it that I wouldn't understand,"


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

ugh... the more you post the more i think for certain of an EA.
This would explain you situation, in that she is detached a little and if the EA is stopped then your relationship can come back to what you want. 


Yes get the phone back and recover the deleted texts


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Go dark about it. Put a smile on your face. Act composed, casual, confident.

And dump the phone and see what you find. If yours is transparent, so should hers be.

I suspect you already know what you're going to find, and that it will mean that you have some tough decisions to make.

Especially knowing she cheated on you once.

Sorry, man.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

If it's an iPhone you may not need access to the phone at all. Just iCloud or the computer she syncs it with.


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> Has your counselor said anything about her possibly having a personality disorder?
> We see different counselors, there is a little bit of a story behind why. She could have a slight disorder. She is actually aware of an issue inside herself, perhaps upbringing. She is dealing with her counselor on that. Again more info there.
> 
> How does your occupation compare to hers?
> How does she handle her phone? Is she trAnsparent with her email,texts, phone etc?


 We are in similar fields, I do do better than her. No she is not transparent but she really was never coy. She has a "possessive" issue and it's not just over her phone. Her car, her household things, she is very possessive, she doesn't share well. 



kristin2349 said:


> How did you find out about her first affair? Did she confess or did she get caught? Gut feeling something wasn't right. I confronted her, then swiped phone and all hell broke out. OMG I had never seen her react the way she did (we're married 25 yrs when that happened)
> 
> If she didn't want you to look at her phone that is a major red flag.
> 
> Check out the Standard Evidence Post by @ weightlifter DO NOT confront before you read that and get more input. If you sit her down for a talk before you are ready you are making a huge mistake.


 I did read it and I can do most of those things. 



ScrambledEggs said:


> If she is so strong, successful, and gets a lot of attention from guys, and she is as self centered as you say, why do you think she stays with you? What does she get out of being married to you. lol agreed. She is also insecure & I have been very supportive, we have been together 30 yrs, she used to love me to death, I still look good for 52, lol, I earn a decent salary, we have worked together to build an awesome household and family
> 
> A lot of guys come here with a similar story, but usually there is some obvious thing glueing the marriage together, such as economic dependency of the wife, children, ect... Why do you think she cares to stay married to you? This is not a loaded question but one that I think could be informative.


 Like I said above. She can be very kind & loving 



Chaparral said:


> The phone behavior points directly to an affair. Forget talking to her. Its time to put a var in her car.


 I will consider this 



Jung_admirer said:


> What you are describing is called "emotional withholding" and it is a form of abuse. Take a look:
> When Your Partner Stops Giving: The Silent Pain of Emotional Withholding -


 I will, thanks


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm sorry you've found yourself here. Her reaction to her phone and having it locked is a bad sign. Sorry also to ask so many questions. Hopefully you'll find it therapeutic to get it out.


sharps said:


> Over the last few days, due to some strange feelings, it has been eating at me more, to where I am physically feeling the pain. I can’t work, I can’t sleep, I can’t get it out of my head. I am a wreck, I am jealous, I am scared, I want to cry like a 4 yr old.Al


This sounds terrible. Care to elaborate on why you feel jealous?


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

sharps said:


> Like I said above. She can be very kind & loving




It sounds like you might have something worth fighting for to keep. But you will have to be strong to fix this. From one STEM guy to another there are a lot of knobs on the care and maintenance of a relationship that we tend to not figure out until we are forced to by something like this. 

You need to delve into the black art of the study of women, their expectations, and emotions. It is not intuitive and is not what culture teaches us it is. It is a black are because you can follow it to place of personal darkness and even Misogyny, or you can use it learn how be a better man in the eyes of a women. In a nutshell the hard truth is that nice guys, and especially doormats, do not inspire passion in women. 

I almost hesitate to suggest Married Man Sex Life by Athol because he has some reductive ideas about women, but I trust you can see what he is getting at without following him there. His stuff is basically married "Red Pill" so comsume with caution. 

But first you need to deal with the affair stuff immediately and you have good advice on that already. Do not confront her until you are clear what is going on, or she will go further underground with it. Confronting her and asking for her phone is risky because, given what you have said, she probably has already taking steps to cover her tracks deleting some or all messages that show what is really going on.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

sharps said:


> Over the last few days, due to some strange feelings, it has been eating at me more, to where I am physically feeling the pain. I can’t work, I can’t sleep, I can’t get it out of my head. I am a wreck, I am jealous, I am scared, I want to cry like a 4 yr old.
> 
> Al


This is your GUT screaming at you, listen to it, start some investigation

the time you took the phone and she said you would not understand some things in it, you should have made her explain those "things".


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

azteca1986 said:


> I'm sorry you've found yourself here. Her reaction to her phone and having it locked is a bad sign. Sorry also to ask so many questions. Hopefully you'll find it therapeutic to get it out.
> This sounds terrible. Care to elaborate on why you feel jealous?


 I can't imagine her not mine. I can't imagine her with another man. I can't imagine even coming close to finding another perfect beauty as I see her. She is the hottest thing I could imagine. She is healthy, tight, has physical attributes I admire, she is over 50 and looks 30. Plus she is multi-degreed, and a professional. The child in me would be jealous, that is the honest truth for right or wrong. 



ScrambledEggs said:


> It sounds like you might have something worth fighting for to keep. But you will have to be strong to fix this. From one STEM guy to another there are a lot of knobs on the care and maintenance of a relationship that we tend to not figure out until we are forced to by something like this.
> 
> You need to delve into the black art of the study of women, their expectations, and emotions. It is not intuitive and is not what culture teaches us it is. It is a black are because you can follow it to place of personal darkness and even Misogyny, or you can use it learn how be a better man in the eyes of a women. In a nutshell the hard truth is that nice guys, and especially doormats, do not inspire passion in women.
> 
> ...


 I agree , move with caution. I will look into site 



convert said:


> This is GUT screaming at you, listen to it, start some investigation
> 
> the time you took the phone and she said you would not understand some things in it, you should have made her explain those "things".


 Yes gut, I am hearing it over and over and I am in pain right now. I actually have to stop and get off this website, I can't take it, I feel like I am going to throw up. I did not eat lunch. I am physically sick. I am so grateful for the comments. I need to get some work done, take my mind away from this.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Sharps, I've been married for 31 years, and have gone through the same doubts and gut-wrenching churn of emotions. But I'm not going to address any possible infidelity. Other folks have that base well-covered, and instead I want to talk about you.

One of the toughest things that you're dealing with is finding your emotional compass. Right now it's on "fear" to the exclusion of just about everything else. So focus on that fear. Fear that she's found somebody else, fear of divorce, fear that she doesn't love you any more, fear that your kids' lives are going to be upended, fear of being alone. The most important piece of advice I can give you is to lose the fear.

It's a process. You imagine the worst case scenario and understand that you can handle it. Whatever happens, you'll be okay. It will suck and you wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy, but you'll be okay. What I had to do was repeatedly imagine the bad scenarios and come to peace with them.

And that's the greatest gift of going through the process: peace.

You get there, and decisions become much easier, regardless of what those decisions are.

Losing the fear doesn't come overnight, that's for sure, but it may be the greatest thing you can do for yourself.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

sharps said:


> Ladies please help with thoughtful replies.
> 
> I fear this question is going to reveal more about my situation than I want but I am all about being open.
> 
> Here it goes. I am finding that my wife does not wear panties on occasion. In the midst of trying to uncover what is going on in our marriage I couldn't help but notice our hamper/dirty clothes scenario. I often do our laundry anyway. So in any one week I find an odd number of bras vs panties and often the dirty panties don't match the number of days since last laundry. I actually have more closely noticed and it happened again the other day she had not dirty panties from coming home from work. She wears thongs btw. wtf? I am thinking. Is it something women do. Does she go to work panty less for the feel (or lack thereof)? She is a professional, she wears suit pants, skirts, dressy stuff. I asked her about this , she laughed and said sometimes she wears stockings with built in panty. Not found in this past case. Could it be she is going through hot flashes and she doesn't want them on?. I am already posting in another thread about me questioning her fidelity. I did not add this fact to those comments bc quite frankly it would make my situation really seem dire.



You don't seem to want the truth so just put your head in the sand. She has your [email protected] in her purse and you know this marriage is on her terms only, that includes her being with other men, sorry.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

kristin2349 said:


> You don't seem to want the truth so just put your head in the sand. She has your [email protected] in her purse and you know this marriage is on her terms only, that includes her being with other men, sorry.


That's a little harsh. I think he's here because is struggling with finding the truth, and how to deal with those truths.

Same as what brought most of us here.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

GTdad said:


> That's a little harsh. I think he's here because is struggling with finding the truth, and how to deal with those truths.
> 
> Same as what brought most of us here.


I agree it was a bit harsh. I just don't understand the point of posting that in another area acknowledging that you are specifically leaving it out of another thread:scratchhead:

In order to find the truth you have to be willing to look and see it when it is staring you in the face.

ETA: To the OP, I apologize for the my comment being harsh. I am newly divorced after a 20+ year marriage. I didn't want to believe it was happening to me either. It is hard to see someone going through something similar and it causes me to trigger a bit.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

OP,

Based on how you have describes your wife's personality, specifically the self absorbtion, and always needing to be the center of attention, and needing to always "look good" and be validated by other men screams serial cheater.

She has already cheated twice that you know of. Yes twice because she is know having at least an EA, and that is cheating. I would not be surprised if she has cheated more in the past as well.

I would demand a poly, and see if you get a "parking lot confession". Also hire a PI if you can afford it.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

sharps said:


> I can't imagine her not mine. I can't imagine her with another man.


We're both men of the world. I think this is exactly what you're imagining. This is making you over wrought. Take a few deep breaths. Please. If you have to imagine anything, imagine that the worst has already happened. She's not yours. She's an adult who makes her own choices in life. 

You're debilitated by the fear of the unknown. So, try to be calm. Without tippping your hand you need to find out what your dealing with. 



> I agree , move with caution...


Perfect. Find your courage and face reality. Once you know what you're dealing with, you'll get through this one way or another.


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

I just found whatsup was on her old phone.

I am a mess


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

I can't wait till she comes home


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

I'm sorry guys , I am going to do everything you say not to do


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

sharps said:


> I'm sorry guys , I am going to do everything you say not to do


Why?

What are you going to do? What's your gameplay?

EDIT: *Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.*

Sun Tzu


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Well, weve seen that a lot here. She will deny everything and it will make it much harder on you to get the real story through detective work. Work place affIrs can be impossible to catch and this will make it harder.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

what exactly did you find in whatsapp, or just the app itself?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Confront her early at your own peril. If she's as smart as you say she'll lambaste you with words and then take everything underground.

The only results that will work involve actions, not words, regardless of how upset you feel. Those actions will be offered by other members here, who have seen first hand what early confrontation does.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

sharps said:


> I just found whatsup was on her old phone.
> 
> I am a mess


try and see if you can recover some old texted on that old phone.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

If you confront her today you are doing it from a position of weakness. It is a huge mistake, and none of us are going to be able to change your mind. We all know how it will go from here...


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

sharps said:


> I'm sorry guys , I am going to do everything you say not to do


don't go off half ****ed

try and do some other things with that old phone.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

if you confront to early you are going to make it ten times harder to find anything when she takes underground.

and just by chance there is nothing(doubtful) but if there is a slight chance you are going to come off a paranoid


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Dear sharp,

Here's the sad truth: women prefer strong men and strong women (like your wife) prefer really strong men. A strong man doesn't fetishize his wife the way you do. Because you do this, she considers you fair game for anything she chooses to dish out -- and you accept it. This, in a nutshell, is the reason for your dilemma.

You need to read _"No More Mr. Nice Guy"_ by Dr. Robert Glover (https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf) and _"Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011"_ by Athol Kay (The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 - Kindle edition by Athol Kay. Health, Fitness & Dieting Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.). I doubt that it will help your marriage -- given how far removed you are from being the kind of man she craves and the unlikelihood of your changing any time soon -- but you need to begin to transform yourself into the kind of man women respect for your next relationship.

Do what you think you have to do tonight (it will probably go badly, given that your instincts are just about 180 degrees off and you don't seem inclined to follow the good advice you are getting here), and then start planning for a future without her.

Or just stay where you are and take what she dishes out, like you've been doing the the past 30 years.

Your choice. Good luck.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

did you find something in whatsap or just the app?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Google serial cheater. Thats bad news. This is a bery deep character flaw. Prepare yourself for the worse.
Didnt see your post about whatsapp. Good luck


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

sharps said:


> I can't imagine even coming close to finding another perfect beauty as I see her. She is the hottest thing I could imagine. She is healthy, tight, has physical attributes I admire, she is over 50 and looks 30. Plus she is multi-degreed, and a professional. The child in me would be jealous, that is the honest truth for right or wrong.


I have known some extremely beautiful women, inside and out, but they are rare, and do not at all match the sort of personality you describe in your wife.

At some point in their lives, intelligent men look beyond the pull of genetics and see that no matter the depth of loveliness on the surface, what is potentially rotten at the core will be uncovered at some point. They learn to read the signs. 

I have known many good men fall for exceptionally beautiful women with dark hearts.


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

Thanks all.

I just confronted her.

It was horrible.

She admitted to sexting.

She admitted she needs to leave for some time to figure out what she wants.

I am a mess. However had I not read this website, I would have still been in a fog. 

I will be strong. I am actually a fairly healthy strong guy, who is still good looking, lol.

Thanks again


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

What we have here is a man who has deified his wife by putting her on a pedestal. To him, she's not a woman but a goddess, a deity he worships including the ground that she walks on. He needs to wake up and realize that a fake "goddess" never reciprocates love to her worshiper.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

sharps said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> I just confronted her.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but sexting was likely just the tip of the iceberg. I mean... why would she need to leave in order to "figure out what she wants" over sexting?

Additionally, for as long as you're willing to let your wife dictate the terms of your marriage (and, as a result, your life), _you're *still* in a fog._

Sorry man.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

And just who is she sexting? A coworker that she has plenty of access to cor more than just sexting?


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

sharps said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> I just confronted her.
> 
> ...


Breaking the cheater code:

Admits to sexting = Had full on physical affairs with all of the sex acts she has denied you time after time...

She needs time to figure out what she wants = She needs time to figure out who among the multiple men she is sleeping with currently she wants to focus her attention on. She will also keep her options open for any new prospects. 

At least this one resolved quickly because we could all see it coming a mile away. All in 12 posts by the OP, a new TAM record?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

kristin2349 said:


> Breaking the cheater code:
> 
> Admits to sexting = Had full on physical affairs with all of the sex acts she has denied you time after time...
> 
> ...


I know, right? Seems a little _unreal_...


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Now that you have your answer, what are you going to do? Continue on the path of worshiping a false idol or break the shackles of slavery you put on yourself and finally become a free man? Tell us. We can't help you with the former, but we certainly can help you with the latter.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

If she's admitted to sexting someone, and asking for space...

She's likely asking for space to explore more than sexting.

Lawyer up, man. And sorry.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

sharps said:


> She admitted to sexting.


 She has cheated in the past and she is doing it again. She is a serial cheater and it is more than just sexting.


sharps said:


> she needs to leave for some time to figure out what she wants.


 She left to discuss her next step with her lover. If you let her, she will let the other man decide your life. You need to be willing to end the marriage to have a chance at having anything worth saving. You need to file for divorce and mean it. You should only consider thinking about taking her back if she makes all of the effort. This would include:

(1) Full disclosure of the affair with a timeline, with none of the "I do not want to tell you because it would hurt your feelings" bull that cheaters try to sell you on.
(2) Full and total no contact (NC) with her affair partner with no last contact to say goodbye.
(3) Full transparency which includes all passwords and no deleting of texts or phone messages without showing them to you first. You should have had this after the last affair.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

sharps said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> I just confronted her.
> 
> ...


Sorry man. I hope you get it sorted. However, after the second go around is it really worth the effort?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

If she was remorseful for the "sexting" she would have done a repeat performance of the first D-day but instead her response is to want to separate to find out what she wants. Like the other members have said, she is having an affair but wants to live the life of a single woman with all the benefits of a married woman.

It's time to expose her affair to her family and friends and at the same time for you to lawyer up. This two prong approach will force her hand to either commit to marital recovery (if its what the two of you want) or to follow suit with the divorce. Either way, it is better than the alternative which is living in limbo, an excruciating state for you where she can string you for a long as she wants until she finally decides to either return to the marriage (on her terms of course) or to divorce you.

But as I said before, if you are steadfast in continuing to do what has not worked in the past, then there is absolutely nothing that we can say to you that will be of any help. So is it business as usual, or are you ready to take some bitter strong but effective relationship medicine? What's it going to be?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Let me put this in terms you will understand.
The statistical probability that she is in a full affair is in excess of 95%.
Taking time=you are plan B while she 'figures out" who she likes better.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> Let me put this in terms you will understand.
> The statistical probability that she is in a full affair is in excess of 95%.
> Taking time=you are plan B while she 'figures out" who she likes better.


Only 95%? I get 99.9% on my infidelity calculator. :frown2:


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

technovelist said:


> Only 95%? I get 99.9% on my infidelity calculator. :frown2:


He didn't say 95% he said "in excess of 95%".
:laugh:


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

morituri said:


> He didn't say 95% he said "in excess of 95%".
> :laugh:


Absolutely correct, of course.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
You must prepare yourself that what she has admitted to is the tip of the iceberg. Her indicating that she needs time alone usually represents her wanting to be free to see the OM or OMen while still having you as a safety net should her encounters prove to be less fruitful than she expects. This is not a good sign. I know you have repeatedly stated that you cannot see yourself without her but you need to at least entertain that possibility and realize that life goes on and so must you.

You cannot make someone care for you no matter the effort you put forth. Ultimately, you must accept their actions and let go. From the gist of your posts, I tend to think your intuition, or gut if you prefer, has been talking to you for a while but you have been suppressing that voice in favor of the fantasy of a more desirable outcome. Unfortunately, one's ability to process data on a subconscious level is quite often accurate. We ignore it at our own peril.

The advice you have been given regarding improving yourself and becoming a stronger man will serve you well if indeed you need to move on to another relationship. The type of women that are attracted to men who are overly eager to please them are, by their very nature, selfish and more egocentric. Attracting this type of woman for relationship purposes is undesirable so altering your "needing to please" personality will serve you better in future encounters. In your present circumstance however, I fear you and your W do not share the same vision for your M. That is regrettable but not uncommon as evidenced by the number of people on this and other marriage boards. I wish you good fortune and strength.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

This is no time to take your foot off of the pedal. Can you use find my phone to track her? Can you afford a private investigator to see what and who she is staying/going with?

You should talk to a lawyer tommorow to see where you stand re custody and financially in your state.

Immediately close all joint bank accounts and credit cards. Betrayed spouses get ripped off quickly and you said she is very self centered and entitled.

Good luck

Chap


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

BTW, contact your counselor for help. Be sure and ask him if he is qualified to deal with PTSD.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Tell her that while she takes the time away to decide what she wants, she can swing 'round tomorrow morning to pick up her stuff in garbage bags along the curb.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Little too nice and tidy for me. Not taking the bait.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> Has your counselor said anything about her possibly having a personality disorder?
> 
> How does your occupation compare to hers?
> How does she handle her phone? Is she trAnsparent with her email,texts, phone etc?


This actually sounds a lot like my wife, who has been diagnosed as having Having High Functioning Asperger's Syndrome. (IQ of 183 or thereabouts.)

OP, has your wife been diagnosed with an ASD?

If not, she needs to be checked out.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

RWB said:


> Little too nice and tidy for me. Not taking the bait.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Really?

Sounds a lot like my life, but there you have it.


----------



## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

Everyone is awesome for the varied advice. It truly is helping me cope today. Here is the latest, now about 7 hrs later..


morituri said:


> If she was remorseful for the "sexting" she would have done a repeat performance of the first D-day but instead her response is to want to separate to find out what she wants. Like the other members have said, she is having an affair but wants to live the life of a single woman with all the benefits of a married woman.
> 
> It's time to expose her affair to her family and friends and at the same time for you to lawyer up. This two prong approach will force her hand to either commit to marital recovery (if its what the two of you want) or to follow suit with the divorce. Either way, it is better than the alternative which is living in limbo, an excruciating state for you where she can string you for a long as she wants until she finally decides to either return to the marriage (on her terms of course) or to divorce you.
> 
> But as I said before, if you are steadfast in continuing to do what has not worked in the past, then there is absolutely nothing that we can say to you that will be of any help. So is it business as usual, or are you ready to take some bitter strong but effective relationship medicine? What's it going to be? Slightly different approach I will take. Don't be mistaken, she doesn't Want to leave, esp for a long period of time. She offered to leave out of a sense of culpability and possibly self healing. I would prefer her to leave , as I get to stay in my big house w the kids, dog & bird. We have talked. Game plan is she comes home tomorrow, sleeps in separate room and leaves Friday for where idk , permanently or until hell freezes over. I have expressed that I am done, the hurt & knowledge & lack of forthcoming scream loud and clear as you all have said. Yes I am a sucker for her but I am also a stubborn (part) German too.





weightlifter said:


> Let me put this in terms you will understand.
> The statistical probability that she is in a full affair is in excess of 95%.
> Taking time=you are plan B while she 'figures out" who she likes better. Yeah honestly I do not think full fledged , I of course do not want to believe PA at all, but I will concede it may have happened. There are also other reasons I believe not full fledged, on going, to long to write, trust me. That said it doesn't matter , she has checked out of our marriage years ago, therein is the infidelity. As I recall it all makes sense, the cold intimacy (yeah if it is meaningless to her than maybe PA is possible for her) I could go crazy just thinking about it.





NoChoice said:


> OP,
> You must prepare yourself that what she has admitted to is the tip of the iceberg. Her indicating that she needs time alone usually represents her wanting to be free to see the OM or OMen while still having you as a safety net should her encounters prove to be less fruitful than she expects. This is not a good sign. I know you have repeatedly stated that you cannot see yourself without her but you need to at least entertain that possibility and realize that life goes on and so must you.
> 
> You cannot make someone care for you no matter the effort you put forth. Ultimately, you must accept their actions and let go. From the gist of your posts, I tend to think your intuition, or gut if you prefer, has been talking to you for a while but you have been suppressing that voice in favor of the fantasy of a more desirable outcome. Unfortunately, one's ability to process data on a subconscious level is quite often accurate. We ignore it at our own peril.
> ...





RWB said:


> Little too nice and tidy for me. Not taking the bait. Not sure what you mean, we have talked twice since. She has been equally a wreck as I am, I know her 30 yrs, she wasn't faking today's sincerity. Just now she tried to convince me to say that we will work things out. Not buying it from her (I know easier said over the phone) I am staying true to our plan. I also just sat with a recent divorced friend who helped me, I spoke to 2 female friends who listened and I had counseling so I have got a lot off my chest.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tomorrow is another day I will be sure to log on . Thanks


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

Wow, sorry you are here.

Please be warned, she will probably continue to hound you to let her back. Don't cave! She may even say all of it is YOUR fault. Don't cave. Regardless of your marriage problems and how much each person contributed to them, she is responsible for her actions.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Do you know who/how many she is texting with? Does this all make sense now looking back on it? How far back do you think this started?

Does the texting partner live nearby or is this a long distance thing?


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

You can be assured a cheater will only confess and greatly minimise their involvement in an affair. If she has copped to sexting and now she needs to leave i can almost bet her actions have gone physical. It is time you did a 180 on her lawyered up and gave her a dose of reality.

So sorry you are here


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

S, you don't know squat. And you can forget knowing her 30 years. This is a full on affair, and has been going on for some time.
You rug sweeping the 1st one, taught her to be more careful, so now she is beating herself up for not being able to out smart you. It has nothing to do with you, it's her personality. You already know how she feels about failure. Guess what getting caught means. Guess what a D will mean. Failure, and that's why she is so destroyed.
She put you on the back burner years ago, and now all of a sudden she is so concern.

As others said in different ways, there is nothing special about her or your marriage, and as you being here has shown you, just one of many.

I will say this. forget knowing her for how long. When they go to the length they do to deceive, you learn you didn't really know this person at all.

ASKING,, are you at least monitoring her phone activity tonight?? Have you pulled up the account to see what number she's been calling and texting.
How do you know she is not being consoled by her AP right now??

You are doing the same script as last time. My man, take off the rose colored glasses so you can see the princess will wallow in the mud with the rest of us.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> S, you don't know squat. And you can forget knowing her 30 years. This is a full on affair, and has been going on for some time.
> You rug sweeping the 1st one, taught her to be more careful, so now she is beating herself up for not being able to out smart you. It has nothing to do with you, it's her personality. You already know how she feels about failure. Guess what getting caught means. Guess what a D will mean. Failure, and that's why she is so destroyed.
> She put you on the back burner years ago, and now all of a sudden she is so concern.


I agree completely. A serial cheater who posted here for a while while he was trying to 'reform' (aka snow his wife) was extremely convincing. Until....it was clear that his wife was really going to divorce him, at which point he said, 'Yeah, I had hoped I could talk her around the way I always did, but she's smarter than I gave her credit for.'


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

So she cheated 6 years into the M, but begged a second chance and you decided to stay in the M?

Then she pulls this crap 20 years later?

And if she has been emotionally detached from your M for several years, as you say, then I agree with others that the sexting is probably just the tip of the iceberg....there have probably been PA's with these POSOMs.

Expose her A's to both families and all friends, then file for D and only communicate with her about the kids or the D proceedings.

Keep telling her you are done.

The last time you listened to her begging to R, it cost you 20 years of your life only to end up back in the same spot.

I also would not be surprised if you discover that the A's never really stopped over those two decades....but you didn't catch on to the continued cheating til recent times.


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

OldWolf57 said:


> S, you don't know squat. And you can forget knowing her 30 years. This is a full on affair, and has been going on for some time.
> You rug sweeping the 1st one, taught her to be more careful, so now she is beating herself up for not being able to out smart you. It has nothing to do with you, it's her personality. You already know how she feels about failure. Guess what getting caught means. Guess what a D will mean. Failure, and that's why she is so destroyed.
> She put you on the back burner years ago, and now all of a sudden she is so concern.
> 
> ...





Dyokemm said:


> So she cheated 6 years into the M, but begged a second chance and you decided to stay in the M?
> 
> Then she pulls this crap 20 years later?
> 
> ...





intheory said:


> sharps,
> 
> She sounds just plain awful.
> 
> ...


These are all poignant replies. As I allow these words to sink in I am not doing well. Ok, Ok taking off the glasses, I may have been played & maybe being played now. The failure comment just may have hit the sharpest chord. 

I am going to start a new thread when I get to work. I would like to discuss the process of separation and what I have learned and what I believe I am going to do.

Thx


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What she's telling you doesn't make sense with how she's been treating you. When you get enough info that makes everything add up you will have the truth.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

This same scenario played out for my buddy nearly 100%.

Here's what may be happening right now.

She is in deep discussions with her EA/PA buddy(s) about you being wise to some of it. She is attempting to secure emotional and perhaps physical and financial support with the other guy(s).

This will likely not go as planned because you threw the timing off and created a sense of urgency about the whole thing. She will be off ****ing some guy's brains out and begging him to move in together and be a couple so she won't be alone. Likely he will get skittish, take the sex, and leave the woman. Maybe not, but I'd put the odds somewhere around 80% that he'll screw her and dump her and go running back to his wife.

What I'm trying to say is be ready somewhere 24hours - 2 weeks out to have a suddenly repentant wife on your hands begging to come home.

What you can't do is let her, because she will do it again. She needs to go through this to clear the fog out. Even if it's just for her.

Blow the whole thing wide open. Tell your friends, family, hers too. Wide open. Let clean, clear air in.


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

marduk said:


> This same scenario played out for my buddy nearly 100%.
> 
> Here's what may be happening right now.
> 
> ...


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Gas lighting is trying to make you believe something other than the truth. Blameshifting is blaming you for having to look elsewhere.
Try to get into working out, its the best medicine. Also see your MD for temporary help, they see this a lot.

Do some things for yourself. New hobbies, old ones you dropped, friends you havent been seeing. Take the kids out for some fun stuff. New haircut, new clothes etc. it may sound silly but it works.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Since she's coming back home you need to look up the 180. I cant link to it on my phone. Also, find Morituri's Just Let Her Go thread


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> Since she's coming back home you need to look up the 180. I cant link to it on my phone. Also, find Morituri's Just Let Her Go thread


I read the 180 list, I think I am good. I will check out the other one.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Good, was wondering if you was going to listen.

As said, this is not something new my man. That's why the years of disconnect.
You may not want to believe it, but we see it all here.

I'm still concern about your lack of investigations by now however. To R successfully, if that's your gameplan, you must know ALL, of what you are forgiving.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I hope you're right about the sex, man. I sincerely do.

What do you think has happened over the past 24 hours?

Where has she been? Who was she with?

And why do you think that's all it was?

I'm not trying to panic you or set you against your wife. What I am trying to do is get you to see things realistically, and if you are going to reconcile, it needs to be with everything on the table.

EDIT: None of what you just said jives with your "no panties" thread.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You are doing good. 

But don't accept a separation. Tell her when she walks out the door the next message she will be getting firm you will be the service of a divorce petition at her workplace. 

Be the leader. Step up.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

bandit.45 said:


> You are doing good.
> 
> But don't accept a separation. Tell her when she walks out the door the next message she will be getting firm you will be the service of a divorce petition at her workplace.
> 
> Be the leader. Step up.


I would flip it.

Go forward with D as the expectation. Let her explain why it should be otherwise, and one of the table stakes to even get in that discussion is a full and complete accounting of her activities with other men, a full release of all communications, and full transparency from this point forward.

In other words, make her fight her way back in and demonstrate accountability, don't roll out the red carpet for her and beg for accountability on the back end.

For your benefit, and hers.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

No panties at work is telling Bandit. That's a thread he has in the ladies lounge.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Just another pathetic middle aged woman trying to reclaim her youth through cheating. It's getting old.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

OldWolf57 said:


> Good, was wondering if you was going to listen.
> 
> As said, this is not something new my man. That's why the years of disconnect.
> You may not want to believe it, but we see it all here.
> ...


Agreed


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> You are doing good.
> 
> *But don't accept a separation.* Tell her when she walks out the door the next message she will be getting firm you will be the service of a divorce petition at her workplace.
> 
> Be the leader. Step up.


I agree, especially if the goal is R

the separation is just so she can play without you bothering her.

before I would separat I would file for D


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

bandit.45 said:


> Just another pathetic middle aged woman trying to reclaim her youth through cheating. It's getting old.


Men that are confused and buy the party line that their wives just don't like sex any more need to spend more time in CWI.

Not to make them paranoid about their wives cheating, but to prevent them from wanting to cheat in the first place.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

I say she has gotten away with it so long, her maybe being a high functioning asp is the only thing tripped her up.


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

OldWolf57 said:


> Good, was wondering if you was going to listen.
> 
> As said, this is not something new my man. That's why the years of disconnect.
> You may not want to believe it, but we see it all here.
> ...





marduk said:


> I hope you're right about the sex, man. I sincerely do.
> 
> What do you think has happened over the past 24 hours?
> 
> ...





marduk said:


> I would flip it.
> 
> Go forward with D as the expectation. Let her explain why it should be otherwise, and one of the table stakes to even get in that discussion is a full and complete accounting of her activities with other men, a full release of all communications, and full transparency from this point forward.
> 
> ...





bandit.45 said:


> Just another pathetic middle aged woman trying to reclaim her youth through cheating. It's getting old. Ain't that the truth...


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

sharps said:


> She is almost literally a rocket scientist, multiples degrees, high level employee in an authoritative position, yet *she looks like a hot porn star, tastily done.*


This is how you describe the woman you've been married to for 28 years, the mother of your children? Seriously?

I once made the observation that unlike the men that hit on her when I'm not around, I see past her wrapper and see the qualities; the things that make her proud, that make me proud of her and all the good qualities of her character that make her the woman she is today. I've only been married half as long as you, my wife is 44 but looks early 30s, so I do appreciate the wrapper but as her husband I see all of her. 

Pornstars on the other hand are actresses that are made of plastic.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Dude, I sincerely get the feeling we're wasting our collective breath with you here.

And I get it, you're panicked and acting all irrational. Been there.

Try to be objective. At least a little bit. Imagine that your best friend just laid this situation out to you. What would you tell him?

Here's what I would say to him:
#1 shut the hell up to her. Stop talking. Stop accusing, stop rationalizing, stop threatening, stop talking to her at all. One text: "Locks are changed, I'd appreciate it if you found somewhere else to stay until we sort out the legalities of this situation." AND NO MORE.

#2 go and talk to a lawyer. Do exactly what he says.

#3 get some buddies to lean on. Do not look for her to support. Look to them, look here. Not to her.

#4 accept what she has done. Try to get past the shock of it. Sit with it. Internalize it. Process. Go to therapy about it. Hell, get a moonstone and dance around a fire naked to balance your fifth chakra about it if you think that will help you.

If you reconcile - it must be on your terms. You must accept what you have done to bring this on, even if it's being willfully blind to it. Or maybe there's more. Affairs like this rarely just happen. And you must accept what she has done. You must see her for what she really is -- she's not your princess, she's not your special flower. She's a deeply flawed, deceptive, unethical woman who is seeking emotional, physical, and sexual expression with someone else. That's who she is right now. The woman you thought you knew is GONE. Maybe she never existed, or maybe she did. Maybe she'll come back, maybe she won't. But what you have to do is let that image of her -- and you -- go.

If you let her back into your life without a deep understanding of both sides -- yours and hers and the relationship you have created together -- you will be right back here.

And I guarantee you this rabbit hole goes a lot deeper than your anxiety will be letting you believe right now.

From a guy that's been there.

This gets better, man. Once you let it get very bad and the only way out is up.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

marduk said:


> Dude, I sincerely get the feeling we're wasting our collective breath with you here.
> 
> And I get it, you're panicked and acting all irrational . . .


Actually, the OP is doing pretty well at the moment. Read his recent posts.

His eyes are open, he's not buying her gaslighting, he's starting to realize just how wayward she truly is and he's beginning to realize that R is probably not going to happen (unless he agrees to sweep things under the rug, like he did last time she cheated).

Of course, it's too soon to say if he's rediscovered his manhood, but the signs are encouraging.


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

Do you know who she was sexting? And for how long this has occurred? 

Is he married? If so let the other mans wife know what's going on. 

When you do that I suspect your wife will flip her wig.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hes being awfully reticent about who she cheating with and wht the posoms relationship is with her! Old friend, neighbor, coworker?


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## ILoveSparkles (Oct 28, 2013)

intheory said:


> sharps,
> 
> She sounds just plain awful.
> 
> ...


She doesn't sound like a fun person to be around. You say all of this about her, and then keep talking about how she looks like tasteful looking porn star. And then one mention about how she is a good mother. 

You seem to enjoy the "youthful, tasteful porn star" look more than anything, IMO. You've mentioned these words more than once to describe your wife.


----------



## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

marduk said:


> Dude, I sincerely get the feeling we're wasting our collective breath with you here.
> 
> And I get it, you're panicked and acting all irrational. Been there.
> 
> ...


Marduk

I don't know who you are, but you have nailed it. I would've bet a lot of money she was going to be mine, that she was going to work it out. 
Well it is an ice berg, and tonight, after listening to the recoder I put in her car, I heard more of it.
Well she's out of the house tonight, kids are w my sis. 
It is over, she has issues, guess what hers are daddy issues, the guy she's courting sounds like he's 70, and a smoker, ohhh but how he is the one she has been waiting for.
Needless to say I have crying since, stomach in knots, I had buddy help me along and now I'm gonna try to sleep this nightmare over.
Good website, but I really can't bare to stay.
Thanks all


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Sharps, get ALL the help that you can get. You are very hurt and very dependent on her and that would not be bad except that she has some very major character flaws that will not be fixed for a long time if ever. *You get that help and make your very TOP PRIORITY that you get stronger in body, mind, emotion, and spirit.* There is nothing you can do to change your wife but there is a WHOLE lot you can do to change you! Changing you is about your only hope and that is a very good hope because it can turn you into a much stronger man that will not be so devastated if any woman treats you the way your wife has.

I will give the truth to you bluntly. You are either going to vigorously pursue you getting stronger in many areas or you will become a wet noodle wimp that will be pathetic. FORCE yourself to stop thinking of her and only think of how you are going to get stronger. You will fail from time to time but do not stop pushing her out of your mind and you will be surprised how much better you can get in time. You are part German so you can do the mind over matter thing!

You do have some things going for you as you have good financial resources and are transparent and wanting help. There are probably more good points but you have not posted a lot about yourself so I do not them all. Remember, there are literally millions of men that have lived through your situation, in that you have a wayward wife, and now have a good life. *SO CAN YOU!*


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

sharps said:


> Marduk
> 
> I don't know who you are, but you have nailed it. I would've bet a lot of money she was going to be mine, that she was going to work it out.
> Well it is an ice berg, and tonight, after listening to the recoder I put in her car, I heard more of it.
> ...


Brother, it sucks.

But it will not get easier for a while. There are plenty of people here that will help support you through the crap that is really just beginning.

I would encourage you to stick around. You will need support and the occasional proverbial 2x4.


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

Mr Blunt said:


> Sharps, get ALL the help that you can get. You are very hurt and very dependent on her and that would not be bad except that she has some very major character flaws that will not be fixed for a long time if ever. *You get that help and make your very TOP PRIORITY that you get stronger in body, mind, emotion, and spirit.* There is nothing you can do to change your wife but there is a WHOLE lot you can do to change you! Changing you is about your only hope and that is a very good hope because it can turn you into a much stronger man that will not be so devastated if any woman treats you the way your wife has.
> 
> I will give the truth to you bluntly. You are either going to vigorously pursue you getting stronger in many areas or you will become a wet noodle wimp that will be pathetic. FORCE yourself to stop thinking of her and only think of how you are going to get stronger. You will fail from time to time but do not stop pushing her out of your mind and you will be surprised how much better you can get in time. You are part German so you can do the mind over matter thing!
> 
> You do have some things going for you as you have good financial resources and are transparent and wanting help. There are probably more good points but you have not posted a lot about yourself so I do not them all. Remember, there are literally millions of men that have lived through your situation, in that you have a wayward wife, and now have a good life. *SO CAN YOU!*


Thanks, I am in pain now, I can't sleep. I will get help, I will lean on my friends, but I am fearful of 2 things. I am fearful I will let her back in my heart. And I am fearful I will never love anyone the way I loved her. She was literally perfect. I will need to replay her words over & over in my head so I can stay hurt.


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> Brother, it sucks.
> 
> But it will not get easier for a while. There are plenty of people here that will help support you through the crap that is really just beginning.
> 
> I would encourage you to stick around. You will need support and the occasional proverbial 2x4.


Thanks, my stomach hurts so bad that a 2x4 to the might help.
How you (collectively) can stay here on this site is crazy. I am in so much pain, I want to be so far away from this talk. I can't get her out of my head. Her face, her body, her looks, her mind, her humor, her childishness. It's that other devil in her that has done all this. The devil that fantasizes , that didn't live in reality.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

The fact that you find her perfect is problematic. It has the stench of codependency.

You need to limit contact as much as possible. Starting now.

No alcohol.

Look up "180: the healing heart" and implement it now.

Start exercising tomorrow.

Consult an attorney ASAP.

The veterans will be here shortly with more advice.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

sharps said:


> She was literally perfect.


Perfect? Hardly.

She was 'actually' a selfish, lying, cheating sl*t. Keep that in mind.

You're getting there sharps.


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

Tron said:


> Perfect? Hardly.
> 
> She was 'actually' a selfish, lying, cheating sl*t. Keep that in mind.
> 
> You're getting there sharps.


Guys I am not getting there, she just called me & I picked up. I know I know bad move, but I wanted another lb of flesh. I wanted to lace into her, I want her to feel my pain. Apologized, apolgized, crying, swearing, denying. As I'm talking to her I scrolled down and read this post that said no contact, & I told her I have to go.

I get it with no one understanding why I love her. Maybe I am as delusional as my fore brothers, but there is a good side to her. She has been good to me . It's that devil side. Literally 2 different pp that do not occupy her at the same time, ever.....


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

sharps said:


> Guys I am not getting there, she just called me & I picked up. I know I know bad move, but I wanted another lb of flesh. I wanted to lace into her, I want her to feel my pain. Apologized, apolgized, crying, swearing, denying. As I'm talking to her I scrolled down and read this post that said no contact, & I told her I have to go.
> 
> I get it with no one understanding why I love her. Maybe I am as delusional as my fore brothers, but there is a good side to her. She has been good to me . It's that devil side. Literally 2 different pp that do not occupy her at the same time, ever.....


Get it through your head, man... she's a serial cheat. 

I know it sucks, but that's the reality of it.

No contact. Go dark. 180, 180, 180 -- learn it, live it, love it.

Sorry, man.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

You know you hang around here a bit and you can smell a cheat from a country mile away.

I only read the first three lines of your first post and I knew immediately she was cheating or about to. I think we all did.

I also thought to myself, what a horrible person to be with!!! 

I have a friend like this and she was exactly the same. She was hot, successful, driven and thought the world of herself. She would b*tch and moan half the time and have a tantrum if she wan't the centre of attention. One day she said that she could have anyone she wanted when she was drunk. She would walk all over him and he would just take it. You could see how this was affecting his manhood.

One day he snapped and did the right thing. He walked in the bedroom, packed her a suitcase, put it outside the front door, took her house keys off her car keys, handed her the car keys and said goodbye. You are wrong.... you can be with anyone but me. Pushed her out the door and went to bed.

Never have I been so proud of him.

Of course she came crawling back and ever since then she knows not to f*ck with him. Yes, she's a b*tch, yes she's still the same self centred woman, but she knows her husband isn't going to put up with her sh*t and she knows he is willing to drop her at a moment's notice if she ever treats him that way. She respects that man now.

Unfortunately, it sounds like you lost that respect a long time ago (and maybe never had it).

Sorry you are here dude. It's a long painful path.

If it was me, I'd kick her out ASAP and move on.

A lot of people told me to 180, which you should do, but don't take this as a set of tasks for you to win her back. They are only for you.

Move on.

The sooner you make each and every day about YOU moving on, the quicker it will happen.

Get yourself a good MALE counsellor.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> I wanted another lb of flesh. I wanted to lace into her, I want her to feel my pain. Apologized, apolgized, crying, swearing, denying. As I'm talking to her I scrolled down and read this post that said no contact, & I told her I have to go.


Well that is a sign of improvement from you crying and begging for her. You will get some relief from acting like a man that demands respect. Do not be surprised that the stronger you get and need her less the more she will come after you. Now that u got a pound of flesh get back to the 180 because eventually that will get you tons of flesh but more importantly it will help you get to the point that you can live with her or without her. *That is when you get into the driver’s seat with your life.
*


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

sharps said:


> Guys I am not getting there, she just called me & I picked up. I know I know bad move, but I wanted another lb of flesh. I wanted to lace into her, I want her to feel my pain. Apologized, apolgized, crying, swearing, denying. As I'm talking to her I scrolled down and read this post that said no contact, & I told her I have to go.
> 
> I get it with no one understanding why I love her. Maybe I am as delusional as my fore brothers, but there is a good side to her. She has been good to me . It's that devil side. Literally 2 different pp that do not occupy her at the same time, ever.....


You know the right thing to do but she is imprinted on your consciousness/emotions/sexual desire and it seems so counter-intuitive, but you are working through an addiction to her to (hopefully) reach a state of indifference (balance) where you can make healthy choices that make long term sense. As you would want to at the start of a new relationship. Its her betrayal that makes this necessary, she chose this for you! (Btw; Expect to go through the stages of grief, this is a huge loss to you.)

She has an addiction of her own, she is under the control of her Limbic system, she will do anything to preserve her lust for happiness. At this moment, no matter how good of a person she is capable of being, she will do anything to manipulate the situation. You cannot trust ANYTHING that comes out of her mouth.

She wants to use your addiction, pain, and instability to manipulate you.

Do you lie to someone you love?
Do you inflict the worst possible pain on them?
On your family and friends?
Do you betray someone who is devoted to you?

She does all this without conscience at the moment, conscience is not a function of the Limbic system which is driving her behavior.

As said earlier the impetus for this may be little more that boredom and the fear of aging. She opened herself up (a sense of entitlement) to her need/right to be happy and with a little attention from men and some flirting/crossed boundaries, in rush the affair chemicals into the brain (affair crack) and it will be very difficult for her to ever settle for a normal life again.

Talk to people who have an addict for a spouse and see how they cannot live up to their word. This is the very definition of a serial cheater, and your wife is all of that, and has been for some time.

*Cheating changes you, and the damage spreads from there.*

Stick to the 180, follow a good plan, stick to it and don't second guess yourself, do what you know to be right.

I am sorry, I really wish you well as you walk through this.
Take care.


.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

BTW, you have confirmed now that she's a serial cheater. Add that to your description of her personality, the odds this is only her second rodeo are slim and none. If you think back on it, you will no doubt find a pattern.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

sharps said:


> Thanks, my stomach hurts so bad that a 2x4 to the might help.
> How you (collectively) can stay here on this site is crazy. I am in so much pain, I want to be so far away from this talk. I can't get her out of my head. Her face, her body, her looks, her mind, her humor, her childishness. It's that other devil in her that has done all this. The devil that fantasizes , that didn't live in reality.


The reason we are still here is we know what you're going through. Only people that have been through this can truly understand what hell you are living through. No one here will tell you to just get over it. This site is proactive. We can't stop the pain but we can shorten it and show you how to get to the other side.

It isn't easy but you will come out stronger or wither. That part is up to you. Your choice is between strength and truth or lies and weakness.


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> The reason we are still here is we know what you're going through. Only people that have been through this can truly understand what hell you are living through. No one here will tell you to just get over it. This site is proactive. We can't stop the pain but we can shorten it and show you how to get to the other side.
> 
> It isn't easy but you will come out stronger or wither. That part is up to you. Your choice is between strength and truth or lies and weakness.


I can't do it,,, I am falling apart, I am crying my ass off , in the office, my door is shut. Blindsided blindsided


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Take off and see your MD .Then find a counselor that has experien e with infidelity AND ptsd.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Wth, man. She is a serial cheater and you are still sad? Yes, it hurts. 

It is time to channel that into some righteous anger and grab your situation by the freaking reigns.


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

I'm at work, it's safe, I have a lot of support, one partner just popped in to check on me. I will try to keep active, I am supposed to meet her later to talk about short term living arrangements, I think we are still set for her to be out of he house though I do not know who she is talking to now & what they are telling her. I told all family & hers too, everyone knows. She claims she doesn't car eat this point. whatever.

The pain is real,,,,,, I am the only guy I know that has truly truly spoke of a hundred reasons why I loved her & thought she was the cat's meow. I feel like such a fool, I'm sorry I can't convince my self of her flaw(s).

Thanks all , the works / replies do help.

My son has an important test tomorrow so I do not think tonight/today is the time to lay it on him/them.

I took a valium, but I do not have many left. My scheduled Dr appt is next week, I called just before but I can't get anyone.


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> Wth, man. She is a serial cheater and you are still sad? Yes, it hurts.
> 
> It is time to channel that into some righteous anger and grab your situation by the freaking reigns.


My love for her was / is enormous, you have no idea, you have no idea how special she is, I have know her for 30 yrs


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

It sounds like you were putting her on a pedestal. That is a one way ticket to a spouse placing your value lower than theirs.

Please, explore this in IC.


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> It sounds like you were putting her on a pedestal. That is a one way ticket to a spouse placing your value lower than theirs.
> 
> Please, explore this in IC.


I looked for that post with all the acronyms didn't find it, what's IC?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Individual counseling. 

Brother, when you treat someone like they can do no wrong, no matter how much wrong they actually do, it does tragic things to a relationship.

Have you read about the 180 yet?

You need it right now. It is the key to detachment. It sometimes has the unitended consequence of drawing a wayward back to you, but your description of her sounds like someone with narcissistic tendencies.


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

Correction, you loved the "idea" of her - the image you had built in your mind of a caring committed partner. She has proven that she is not this.

So, you are mourning the death of this idealized image. Grieve for that. But recognize that she did not live up to this image. Her behavior and treatment of you disqualifies her.


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> Individual counseling.
> 
> Brother, when you treat someone like they can do no wrong, no matter how much wrong they actually do, it does tragic things to a relationship.
> 
> ...


Oh, dah.. Yes I have been seeing an IC for 8+ months, she has been helping me with my insecurities & my out look on my relation. W has been with her own IC for over a year since last event that caused the alarm. She supposedly needed time to figure it out , that was last year, our arguments of late have been wtf have you been doing. She admitted she was playing her Counselor for a many months but lately she said she was working harder & getting more out of it. Lies lies lies lies,,,, she is stalling , she is eating her cake and having it too. 
Man this is tough...


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

sharps said:


> Thanks, I am in pain now, I can't sleep. I will get help, I will lean on my friends, but I am fearful of 2 things. I am fearful I will let her back in my heart. And I am fearful I will never love anyone the way I loved her. She was literally perfect. I will need to replay her words over & over in my head so I can stay hurt.


What I did was listen to music full-blast while doing handstand pushups until I was going to puke or pass out.

And then I did a dram of scotch and did pass out. Only way I could sleep.

But you find reserves of strength you didn't know were there. I ran on 2-3 hours of sleep a night and maybe one meal a day for a couple weeks.

And then my body just hit the reset button, and I wolfed down a couple of steaks and passed out for 12 hours. And felt a lot better.

Friends, buddy. Come here. There are people that will help you and people that will hurt you. If nothing else, you'll learn the difference.

Get angry. Stay angry for as long as it serves you.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

sharps said:


> I can't do it,,, I am falling apart, I am crying my ass off , in the office, my door is shut. Blindsided blindsided


Let it happen.

I remember locking myself in the bathroom stall and just letting it all out.

Just don't do it in her presence.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Only because you are emotionally involved. She is fence sitting because you are allowing it. Take away yourself as one of her available choices and do it now. 

No more interactions with her unless it is business. If she tries to discuss your relationship, simply tell her "Our relationship is over" and walk away. DO NOT emotionally engage her.

If she baits you with insults, simply say "I am sorry you feel that way".

If she continues, say "I am not okay with badgering me for discussion about a relationship that is over".

Show her your strength through your actions and file for divorce.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Run my friend,life is to short.
This my best advice for you,try to live your life like there is no tomorrow.
Ask your self do you deserve better,someone who will respect you,listen to your fears,jokes,even bad jokes .Someone who will give herself completly to you !!!


Take care my friend


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

sharps said:


> I looked for that post with all the acronyms didn't find it, what's IC?


If you have not seen it yet. There is a newbie thread here with a list of abbreviations on it as well as links for the 180 and other helpful topics. (see link below)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

Take care.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

S, as you are finding out, this is not "Another Type of Infidelity".
Same old same old my man.

That beautiful, hot, porn star is just another cheater, who was so secure in you worshiping her that she thought she could do no wrong in your eyes.
And so far you are proving her right.

But you have these people to see you thru this, just pay attention.
Your pain has been felt by just about everyone here. You worshiping her, has also been done by others here, so they KNOW, and can help.

It starts with you. It start with you realizing she is not the person you married. OR maybe she is, but you was too enchanted to really see the real her.
She gave you a peek, you rug swept, and it reinforced her deity.

What we want you to see is that she is no deity. 
So deal with her as a woman.

She's doing the wailing, sackcloth, gnashing of teeth dance now, and it's all for show Sharp.
It's all to keep failure at bay.
Not to reconnect with you.
She even played the MC, IC game. but as you are finding out, it was all for show.

I really have no idea of how to go about shifting your view of her, cause I've never had much faith in people and expect the worst, BUT, these people CAN and WILL help you thru this.

Good Luck and God Bless. 
We all change as we go thru life, more so with women, for they are more mental, and emotional.


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

Do you know who this other man (OM) is? Married? If so notify the OM's wife. Do not be a nice guy here. 

Get an appt. for a lawyer ASAP. You need to know what is realistically going to happen to you if divorce...custody, living situation, property divisions.

Also can you see your MD sooner? Anxiety meds exist for a reason. 

Sorry you are going through something as terrible as this. All I can say is I've know wonderful, caring, kind people that had aspects to them that were truly awful. It was a long and difficult process for me to come to accept that this is what they really were. 

You'll get there.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Read the whole thread by the poster BFF.
Crash, burn, with a truly EPIC win for him at the end.
Read and believe.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
You feel now that no one has ever hurt like this, you are the only one. You are not. You feel that your situation is so much more dire and painful than anyone else has ever experienced. It is not. You feel as though she is perfect and the only woman in the world that you could ever love so deeply. She is not. You feel that this pain, heartache and feeling of total despair will last forever. It will not. You feel as though your life is over and continuing on is impossible. It is not.

How long you dwell on these things will determine how long this affects you. Strength is hard to find now but it is there. The sooner you come to grips with the reality of the above, the sooner you will emerge on the other side of this nightmare. When you think about loving someone again remember this. You loved this woman so deeply and she is a lying cheat, imagine the love you will feel for a woman that honors and respects you as much as you do her. It will get better, it's up to you how soon. I wish you good fortune and strength through this.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Your old lady has been playing games with you playing games with her counselor, and playing games with her self. It's time to distance your self from this bull shyt and stop the emotional torture you let her inflict on you.

It's bad enough she is in your head you don't need her around you physically.

Having gone thru this crap 5 years ago you better not be acting all weak in front of your old lady.....chicks dig confident guys....no matter how hard it is, smile wish her the best, and distance your self from her bull shyt!

If you want half a chance ion hell to fix this phucked up mess you gotta let her go.

If you want your old lady to feel the pain you are in you phucking smile and you fake it until you make it......you make her believe she did you a favor by letting you go and now the she is the other guys problem.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Never let them see you cry!

Once your old lady sees how easy you can let her go ...only then will she start to think what she is losing.

You want your old lady to think twice and second guess her choices?

Tell her you are looking for someone else...a friend you can trust!!!!!


Again, you are phucked if she sees you beg for this marriage....chicks dig confident guys...guys that doen't beg for shyt...especially chicks that screw around behind your back.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

BTW,,,sorry you are in a phucked up club no one never wants to belong to.

You will get through this bull shyt...we all did/are.

One last thing ....you can't nuce your way through this....so don't try...you don't need to be an @ss...but be indifferent!

Your indifference will be an action that shows your old lady you will not tolerate sharing her in any way !

In the end....she doesn't even deserve your hate, much less any other emotion. A consequences for her betrayal...."indifference"!!!!!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

FYI,,,your old lady is not going to like the new you if you listen to me....but then again why do shyt to make her happy and reward her for her betrayal?

Just so you know.....you can't compete with new love so being the best husband ever isn't going to do shyt for you.

Go out and buy a new car! It might help


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Have you got the "lets be friends" bull crap from her?


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Sharps, hope you doing better man.

You don't see it now, but it will get better. So hang in there.


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