# Slippery Slope?



## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

Hello.
This is my first post and I'm looking for a little advice/etc.

My wife and I have been married for 14 years (I am 36 now) and I think our relationship is great and I am sure she does as well. We have two kids and no real stress in our relationship. She is attractive and thin, we do some travelling, we do date nights, she pretty much gives me unrestricted time to work on my hobbies which you can probably infer from my username.

So.......about 2 years I was visiting a friend who is married as well. Myself, the friend, and the friends wife all went out for drinks/pizzas/etc - along with the wife's sister. This foursome then did the same thing about 8 or so more times over a two year period. I also exchanged a few facebook messages and emails with the sister. The sister asked for help with her resume once/etc. The sister has also just gotten married and I saw her again last week or so when I was down visiting again. I go down to visit a few times a year.

There has never been an inappropriate message/sexual reference/hook-up or anything like that. However......if I am being honest with myself, I did sort of look forward to going out as a foursome. 


Now for the past few years as well, I have had someone in my facebook list that was an ex-girlfriend from about 18 years ago. She and I would occasionaly chat on facebook over a period of 3 years or so. Most recently (march) she said that she and her husband were splitting up. I met up with her on my latest trip down, we went out for about 8 hours. Had some dinner together, I listened to her about her marriage, and generally tried to take her mind off her life stresses. We hit some of the old places we would go to a long time ago and had a fun time, also met up with my friend/wife/sister as well.

Nothing innappropriate happened either when I was out with her. We exchanged cell numbers and texted a few times. I told her that if she needed someone to listen to, she could email/text.

Again here, if I am being honest, I had a good time and am sort of looking forward to seeing her again at some point in the future.

My wife asked how my trip was, I pretty much told her everything, but left out a few details (like dinner/etc). I said we had drinks/chatted about her marriage/etc and that I met my friend/wife/sister as well. 

So.....I have zero desire to cheat on my wife. I am not looking for a girlfriend or sometime to have sex with on the side/etc. 

But I do have fun with the occasional hang-out with another woman. 


And now for some questions that have probably been beaten to death already.

Is this just a bad idea and despite what I think about myself I really am a horrible person just waiting for the 'right conditions'??

Maybe I making this out in my head to be more than it is? I have a small group of male friends here in town where I live and see them occasionally, but I don't really have any female friends (except for maybe the two I mentioned above?)

Nothing ever happened with the wife's sister - although I think she did sort of like me, and again, if I am being honest, I liked the idea that she might have liked me.

How does this factor in with this latest person, who was an ex-girlfriend a long time ago. She actually did like me at one point. And again, I sort of like the idea that she may want to see me again.

What are some thoughts/comments? I would love to hear from both men and women.

Thanks so much


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## growtogether (Feb 27, 2012)

Hello,
Well, I have to say that if I was your wife, I would be comfortable. I don't know how much you tell her like '' I like the idea that she might of liked me''.... If a read between the lines, you seem to want something else that is not with your wife...You are kind on the limit or like if you are walking on a line ready to fall. Will you fall on the left or the right?
When I read all that, it seems like you are on a trip, like a self-discovery trip. You said you love your wife. Do you say that to convince you that you are not going to do anything wrong or is it really true? 
I don't think so I see a respect here for your wife.


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

hello! 
I do love my wife  She is pretty great!

I thought alot about the questions I asked above, probably right after the first few times i was out with my friend/wife/sister as a foursome. I was going to try to find a forum to post on at that time.

Now that I saw this other old girlfriend, I am thinking about this stuff again....i figured i would locate a forum and post my thoughts.

I dont know about a self-discovery trip? I have been through alot of interesting times over the last 6 years and I think I have gotten alot more direction in my life and have gotten some very good practice at taking a hard look at myself and my decisions.

If I apply that now, that is why I say that I sort of like the idea that she may have liked me, and/or that I am kind of looking forward to maybe seeing the her again.

It is a little exciting to go out and do new things, talk to someone in a 'getting to know you again' way.....


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

You're playing with fire and you know it otherwise you wouldn't have sought out, found and posted on a marriage forum. 

You are testing your boundaries - why? Is it the thrill of seeing how close you can get to the line without going over it?

It is a very very slippery slope - and you've already started down it the moment you intentionally withheld details from your wife - that's deception. The thing is, once you have one secret, it's sooooo much easier to have a second and then a third and then you have a problem. I fell down this same slope - an old GF found me via facebook - my marriage was great, I had no desire or interest to cheat - yet I did. 

Straighten this out NOW!! You want no part of cheating on your wife - you have no idea the prices you'll pay if you cross the line. My wounds and scars from my affair I will carry the rest of my life.


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## happymrs (May 1, 2012)

The question that runs through my mind is why your wife wasn't included in the foursome group? 

If it's the excitement of something new, why not share it with your wife. Meet new people together and get to know them.

If you're with your wife during these times it's something you can both reflect back on, share your thoughts about the events. You're also bonding with your wife, not with another woman, or an old gf. Even if this is not you're intent it's happening--that shared private joke, remembering the crazy waiter where you had dinner, whatever it might be. 

It is a very slippery slope.

If you're wife is great, show her that by sharing it all with her. If that means a babysitter more often, then do that. You also don't want to feel resentment because you can't go out and meet people. 

The fact that you felt you needed to leave out certain parts of your trip is a huge red flag. If I did that to my husband I would feel that I breeched his trust by throwing out transparency and honestly by omission. For me, that's a scarey place to be.


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## rider (Jun 22, 2009)

I travel a lot, so I can sympatize with a lot of this.

If you are hiding things from your wife it's wrong. I think it's worse because these people are familiar or have history.

If you are coming home and saying that you went out with this sister girl and that it made you feel good that she was flirting with you, no big deal, you are in a group, and we all like to feel attractive.

The ex girlfriend thing is a big no-no. Some woman claim they are ok with this, but still waters run deep, and usually there is an undercurrent of worry and resentment.

I think you will feel better if you come clean about it in a way that is not wierd, just casually say "You know, when I went out with these girls i thought there might of been some flirting on their end, I like that it makes me feel attractive, but I just needed to share it with you so it's not a big secret".

If you can't level with your wife, somewhere inside you are probably testing boundaries.


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

I was out of town to see some family a few hours away and then I see one friend of mine, maybe do some joint car/hot-rod activities.

I don't know if I am at the "Red Light Danger" stage....but...I agree probably yellow-caution at least. I did gloss over some details and leave a few things out, which, as you say, is not too great. 

I did tell her more about my friend's-wife's-sister though. She was basically fine with it until one day when the sister facebook messaged me that she hear I was coming down and was basically looking forward to some wings/drinks/etc. That did raise my eyebrows actually....and I was like 'whoa'. It has now become a sort of running joke that I have gone on "double-dates"....

I cannot envision me making a move on the ex-gf, or another woman. Maybe this is just a case of how men get the wrong idea of when women are nice to them, that doesn't automatically mean they have feelings for you....


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

See this is why i don't have ex's on my FB. I'm 38, been married for almost as long as you, no way would i put myself in a situation where i was having drinks with an Ex. Do you know some of the crazy stuff my ex could do in the bed??? Trust me, you don't want to know, but i'd quickly remember once the drinks started taking affect.

I'd be LIVID ... if i found out my wife was "hanging out" with an ex from her past without my knowledge. Like mentioned above, you are playing with fire. You are one blow-up away from shagging this woman.


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## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

Your wife gives you plenty of hobby freedom. You go to your hometown and go on PLATONIC dates with ex girlfriend and friends wife sister...... :scratchhead: Have you spent eight hours on a date with wife? Don't take advantage of the freedom she gives you. 

If my husband did this, Id accuse him of being Captain SAVE (*always trying to be there for other women- tryin to save them from something or be the hero*). If my husband does not spend an eight hour date with me (*and he can easily do this simply because he is far away from me where i wont see it or hear about it through gossip) *I'd feel like he is putting someone outside of our marriage on a pedestal. The pedestal that the wife should always be on. 

If you don't think you're doing anything wrong, invite your wife to come along with the friends sister or the ex once and see how that goes. I know some men need to do this to stroke their ego or reassure themselves that they still got it but be open enough to tell her the truth. This will give her an option on going on Platonic Dates with her ex boyfriends and foursome dates with other groups and being paried up with a man she can get to know better. 

I'm sure you get my point. I will be the first to say that I know my husband does not want me on a date with my ex. He will be somewhere shivering the entire time looking at his watch and praising GOD I came back through the door. (let me stop)


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## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

Rob774 said:


> See this is why i don't have ex's on my FB. I'm 38, been married for almost as long as you, no way would i put myself in a situation where i was having drinks with an Ex. *Do you know some of the crazy stuff my ex could do in the bed???* Trust me, you don't want to know, but i'd quickly remember once the drinks started taking affect.
> 
> I'd be LIVID ... if i found out my wife was "hanging out" with an ex from her past without my knowledge. Like mentioned above, you are playing with fire. You are one blow-up away from shagging this woman.


Amen and thas all I'm saying lol


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

it was probably closer to 6 hours, now that i think about it more :O
definately not just a quick drink-and-see-ya.

we do have friends here that we go out with as couples.

i titled the post as slippery slope for a reason 
like i said, i don't want to cheat or have some kind of inappropriate relationship. 

but i found i like that sparky feeling you get from being out with someone 'new'. 

That being said, my wife and I go out for hours at a time, a couple times a month, and we have a great time as well, dinner, drinks, and that is a 'sparky' good time too.

Maybe this is all in my head...I dont have anyone that I feel comfortable talking to about this - so of course i am just putting this on forum :O


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

i guess the root of what i am wondering is

1) is this just a disaster waiting to happen. maybe not with these two but with someone in the distant future?

2) am i just making this up in my head and these people are just being 'nice'. like i said nice does not mean that they want you.

case in point, the friends-wife-sister is married now.

and i really don't want some other woman texting me their problems, relying on me/etc/etc. 

im trying to step through all of this in my mind again. i am planner by nature. i plan things out and try to consider every detail, pitfall, benefit, etc. its helped me be successfull in many areas and avoid disaster in others. 

if i went out for dinner/drinks for 8 hours with a couple guy friends. it would never occur to me gloss over details with my wife - unless i honestly couldnt remember them 

now...nothing inappropriate happened at all with the ex-gf. but i did gloss over details. that seems bad...but then I think, if I 10000% knew that the ex-gf had zero-zero-zero interest in anything at all, then i probably wouldnt think anything of it. but maybe i think its bad because i don't even know if there is a sliver of a thought that the ex-gf (or the freinds-wife-sister) liked me even a little more beyond just a causal drink.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

fordracing01 said:


> but i found i like that sparky feeling you get from being out with someone 'new'.


DANGER DANGER DANGER!!!!!

You are getting a need met by women other than your wife. Swear off the old GF, avoid the foursome dates and figure out how to get "that sparky feeling" with your wife. 

You are headed for disaster. Please please please learn from my fail and quit this. Cheating sucks man, you want no part of it.


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

by the way, writing this down is helping my thoughts tremendously.

like i said, i don't have anyone i feel comfortable with on this discussion....


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## Peachy Cat (Apr 15, 2012)

I would be totally cool with a "spur of the moment" dinner with friends and a sister of a friend. BUT, the minute it was "planned" and I was left out...I would feel betrayed and upset.

The meeting up with the EX---UNACCEPTABLE.

But that's just me


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

i think like sigma1299 says....while nothing has happened, it may be too dangerous and testing the limits. i would feel very bad even if there was a kiss.

maybe its like drag racing, you go down the track enough times and something is bound to go wrong....


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I just have to :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: to Sigma. He posted everything I would have said.

Have you heard of the book 'Not Just Friends'? I think you should read it. 

I also think you should confess what you have said to us, to your wife. Admit you did something wrong and own up to it. Ask her for her help to affair proof your marriage together. If my hubby had come to me with something like this before he took it farther, I would be in a far, far better place today.


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

I'm not planning to initiate contact again with this old ex-gf.
Maybe I'll chat with my wife some more details.... That is probably a good idea.
I looked back in my messages on FB, there were only about 6 or so conversations since 2008. This is probably really more of me inventing something that isn't reality. We were just out, nothing happened, I didn't want anything to happen. 

Maybe it was that sparky-ness combined with an active sense of a certain risqué-ness that I liked?
I dont want to be some other woman's go-to guy and I don't want some lady friend for sex on the side.

I feel like I have a very good life with my wife and I dont want to be a jerk who goes looking for a flirt for some extra/unneeded validation. 
Maybe there is no middle ground with anything like this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

fordracing01 said:


> Maybe there is no middle ground with anything like this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Take out the word 'maybe' and you've hit the nail on the head.

Do not tempt fate, or yourself.

Seriously, read that book. It's awesome. Read it with your wife.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

fordracing01 said:


> Maybe there is no middle ground with anything like this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not really.

Here's what I'd tell you based on my experience. Like I said - my wife and I both believed our marriage was great when my EA started. It took the crisis of my affair for us both to realize that we had both been taking our relationship for granted. We had both stopped dating each other or being each others boyfriend/girlfriend for lack of a better description. We both missed that "spark" that had been in our relationship - we just didn't realize we missed it. 

Regardless of how great a life you have, of how wonderful your marriage is - something is missing. Either in you or in the marriage. IMO the advice about discussing it with your wife is good. Talk to her and figure out what's missing then fix it. Odds are that what ever it is she's missing it to, even if she doesn't know it. What you are doing is filling what's missing with flirty interaction with these OW. Focus on your wife and build that with her - date her, build intimacy. My wife will tell you today that my affair was worth it because we have now reconnected and our marriage is better than it's ever been - but it came at a damned high price. 

Get the book, "His Needs, Her Needs" and both of you read it.


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

thanks for the comments/insights. 

i can't think of what would be missing...i am not a perfect husband meaning I am sure I get on her nerves from time to time and vice versa. we rarely have an argument. 

i wouldn't say its boredom either. i dont feel bored...sure...maybe it would be a little nicer to get to some more things together, but we have two kids. and we do have the ability to get kid-sitters alot, probably more than most of our other friends. 

what probably worries me most is...where are we in 15 more years? 

i look back at what i wrote...and I feel bad now 
i mean i have an attractive wife, we rarely argue, don't have much stress in our lifes, two kids......and I go on a pseduo-date with an ex-GF and kind of look forward to doing it again someday. yuck....

i dont want to slowly move the line, i guess that is how it happens right? or at least one way.

i am 1000% certain that if the ex-gf/sister/etc texted me and basically said they wanted to hook-up/sex or racy messages, i would immediately halt that. maybe that isn't how it happens?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Read the books that have been suggested.


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

i will check them out for sure.


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

Recreational compatibility!
When I have been out with the sister and most recently with the ex-gf, it has been doing things that I really like doing.
With the ex, it was dinner and drinks, and basically cruising some old spots in my car.
I have several classic clars and they are a big passion of mine.
My wife likes one of them - which is actually my most favorite one as well.
But she is not a big fan of really riding in them. She keeps thinking about 1960's safety technology - or lack thereof 
Of course the ex-gf "absolutely loved it".....she even reminded me that her father had a car in storage and offered to track it down so we check it out together...I really just chalked that up to just conversation.
she also has a few food restriction issues, but that is not such a big deal. 

My wife is a runner, she will go run 6 to 10 miles several days a week.
I can only run 2-3 
But we have been going on walks together for a while, that way she can still run and not be held back by me 

My wife and I do go out and do dinner and drinks too, and have a good time. But she isn't a big fan of hitting some bars and beers/etc - she likes the classy places. And so do I, we have gone to broadway shows together in NYC and I have fun too. But I also like the occasional bar/beer trips.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

If you have to ask on a forum board of anonymous people whether it's right or wrong - you have your answer.

When in doubt and all that jazz.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Allow me to quote from His Needs, Her Needs for Parents, by Dr. Harley, a well-known marriage counselor who specializes in healing from infidelity:



> We all need to know that someone cares for us, and people commonly express that care through affection. When you hug someone, you send them a message: "You're important to me, and I'll care for you." Hugs that are given to friends, relatives, children, pets, and even stuffed animals, can communicate a simple message of care.
> 
> But intimate affection goes much further. It communicates the care needed in a romantic relationship. Studies have shown that one of the quickest ways to make someone fall in love with you is to say you care for them and then prove it by the way you treat them. That's because intimate affection meets a very important emotional need, especially in women.
> 
> ...


He doesn't say it in this section, but I would add: do not discuss your marriage with someone of the opposite sex, either. It is also a recipe for disaster.

You might be interested to know that one common way affairs start is by rescuing a damsel in distress. It's enjoyable to play the role of her rescuer. It's also dangerous and inappropriate.

You derive some enjoyment from these encounters. So what if you don't think you're missing anything in your marriage. I say, take a different approach. Figure out what need IS being met in these " 6 or maybe 8 hour dinners" and then go learn how to achieve that with your spouse.


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

I purchased that book a few hours ago and have been reading it a bit. It's a little scary! I titled this slippery slope......but maybe it's really a slippery cliff?!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

Bad idea. Don't do it. You'll ruin your marriage for the sake of something that isn't worthwhile in the end. Quit talking to this woman and find some romance with your wife. Better be safe than sorry, right? Unless you want out of the marriage, that is; in this case, divorce your wife and chase the other chick to your heart's content. You might not have blurred lines now, but your little crush will get you into trouble if you don't cut it out.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

fordracing01 said:


> I purchased that book a few hours ago and have been reading it a bit. It's a little scary! I titled this slippery slope......but maybe it's really a slippery cliff?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Here's an idea--stop obsessing about a woman to whom you're not married by reading that book. Instead, take that book and see how you can apply it to your relationship with your wife. There is no marriage on earth that couldn't benefit from some improvement.


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## memyselfandi (Jan 10, 2012)

I guess I have to ask you how you would feel if you were in your wife's shoes and she was out doing what you are doing?

Yeah, your wife is pretty great, as she trusts you. The point is..how far does that trust go when you are leaving things out of the picture when you are telling your wife about your trips, etc.

First of all, you need to be honest with youself. If there are things you are doing that you feel that you can't tell your wife about...are they things you really shouldn't be doing in the first place??

My second question is, "Don't you feel guilty for hiding things from your wife while she has so much faith and trust in you??"

If you feel that you can't tell your wife certain things..then I think those are things you shouldn't be doing since in the long run...what if she found out about them through a mutual acquainance?

Innocent or not...it just plain looks bad...spur of the moment or not...you need to tell your wife pretty much everything unless you want her to go from a "pretty cool wife" to a "not so cool with the things you do wife"

Your choice.


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

You have already figured out that it's a slippery slope...but I will throw in my two cents. My husband and I have been married for 18 years. I thought our marriage was doing pretty well. Yes, ups and downs, but we had frequent sex, we did things together and such. 

He started talking to a work acquaintance...then those work conversations turned more friendly, then one day they met up for lunch, then one evening for dinner. All this happened while he was out of town. It was all under the pretense of a friendship, until one night when she was sad about something, she needed someone to talk to, and he 'felt compelled to kiss her'. 

We are still working through this. That was a bit over 6 months ago. If you want to stay married to your wife...don't put yourself in these positions. My husband is someone that you would never peg to have done this. But, he was missing that spark, he was missing a connection that we were letting slip...and he started finding it elsewhere instead of speaking up and rekindling it with me. It has come close to ruining our marriage...and the jury is still out on that


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Ford---nobody has said it to you, yet---but you are already cheating

How come you are keeping certain things from your wife---cuz you F'ing know you are doing wrong, and you DO NOT WANT HER TO KNOW

If you were my partner, and you spent 6 to 8 hours with an XGF, or any other woman---you would be in a war, you would have one he*l of a lot of explaining to do---I don't know what your wife, is like, but I do know most spouses, would not tolerate the screwing around you are doing, and the fact that you are hiding details

How about you tell your wife, everything, tomorrow---sit her down, and give her all the details about everything---I am a betting man---I am willing to bet you will not divulge that kind of info to her

It is just a matter of time---there is a very thin line tween friendship and love----it just takes one little push from either you or the person you are out with,----and your life WILL NEVER BE THE SAME!!!!!!


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

You are right, jnj. I am sure his wife's boundaries have already been crossed.


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

Part of the reason I wanted to chat on here was to see what others would think, I was 50/50 thinking maybe I am making this up in my head. 

Like I said before I dont think just because a female is being "nice" that automatically means that they want you to leave your wife and have an affair. You'd have to have a pretty oversized ego to think that every time a woman was nice to you, or gave you a little look, that they were into you. 

I have been looking around this forum and reading through the "his needs, her needs" book. I am almost finished with it.

No offense folks, it sounds like some people have been hurt very badly, but this board is scary and that book is scary!

The scariest thing are these stories that I have read on here such as even what miss-inside-looking-out has said 

I don't want a girlfriend, I dont want to divorce my wife, and I am happy with her. I am not just saying that to convice myself either.

But I never realized how some seemingly "just lunch/etc" can evolve into a "we had an affair". The book is one thing....but the stories on this board are REAL people.

My parents are divorced and they hated each other. That was easy to see even when I was 6. I never remember a time they liked each other and they divorced, nastily, probably when I was 12-ish.

My wife and I rarely fight, so i did not consider a path that would lead me to get so far down a road where I am hooking up with some other woman. 

That being said, we talked for about 2 hours last night and I told her much more, I think everything. She already knew that I saw the exGF, but I filled in the details. 

She wasn't clapping for joy of course, but she basically said that she wasn't thrilled and of course asked me how I would feel if she was out with some exBF. 

I told her, of course, I would not like it at all. My reason was that I would totally think they other man would be thinking about having sex/etc with her, I mean, why wouldn't he? 

Of course, that is the exact same situation I was in with the exGF. I was out with her but I knew I was not thinking about hooking up with her/etc.

So anyway, she basically said that I can friends with whoever I want. Obviously she doesn't want me going on full-on-dates with other people and I dont want her dating other men. 

Was the 6 hours with the exGF a date? I don't know entirely....I wasnt looking for a romantic evening, really, just to catch up with her and see how she has been/chat/etc. If I just had "fun" I probably would not have even thought about glossing over any details. The only reason why I did gloss over details was because of that "sparky" feeling....

She has gone out in the past with some of her GFs, gets dressed up, and goes to dinner/bars, and very occasionaly seen a guy from her past who comes into town. This doesn't happen alot though. And it really doesnt happen for me alot either, I only do some out-of-town trips maybe a few times a year, somewhat more in the summer though.

As I think about this in more detail, I more convinced that this is my issue, realted to my middle school/high school days and how my life is now vs. how it was back then. I was not very "in" back then.....and I think it is much different now. 

Maybe I have too much time on my hands now...or maybe I really suck and I need to be extremely careful.....


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

fordracing01 said:


> or maybe I really suck and I need to be extremely careful.....


These don't go together. Understanding that you need to be careful shows responsibility, self awareness, and compassion for your wife - it's the act of a responsible adult. 

NOT seeing it or seeing it and ignoring are what would suck.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Good for you for telling your wife. Just so you know, many times what happens at this point is you go back and talk to ExG again. After all, your wife said she didn't like going on dates--but she said, herself, "you can be friends with whoever you want." So there you have it--carte blanche to become friends with the ExG. Now you can lie to yourself a little more easily when she needs to call and sob on your shoulder some more.

Your wife just doesn't want you to think that she's trying to control you. She is afraid that if she clamps down too hard, you'll go running in the opposite direction. So all she said was you can't go on a "date." 

And _of course_ you talked yourself into believing that what you did with the Ex wasn't a "date." Step back a moment and take something in: many, many, many people who enter affairs NEVER intended to do anything but "go to dinner" "catch up with a friend" "lend a shoulder to cry on." All those people had an ABUNDANCE of good intentions. How do you think that mentally healthy, normal people (not narcissists) enter into emotional affairs anyhow? They wake up one day and say, today I'm going to fall in love with a person to whom I am not married?



fordracing01 said:


> She has gone out in the past with some of her GFs, gets dressed up, and goes to dinner/bars, and very occasionaly seen a guy from her past who comes into town. This doesn't happen alot though. And it really doesnt happen for me alot either, I only do some out-of-town trips maybe a few times a year, somewhat more in the summer though.


On the issue of GNOs (or BNOs), you will find if you read enough affair stories that letting your wife go to bars with her GFs is an extremely bad idea. Going out to dinner is one thing. Going to a bar / going clubbing / going dancing is entirely another. (I'm a woman, BTW.) In fact, many couples post affair decide that GNOs in general are a bad idea. Drinking and bars are where people looking for sex meet other people looking for sex. You can enjoy these places together as a couple.

In terms of "being careful," there is really only one way to do this: set firm, mutually agreed-upon boundaries. Not only do you not go on dates--duh!--_you don't spend time alone in a date-like setting with members of the opposite sex_. You DON'T have heart-felt "sharing" conversations alone with members of the opposite sex. You don't become the confidant, even for just 6 or maybe 8 hours, of a member of the opposite sex.

But as someone else around here is fond of saying, the rationalization hamster has a way of ignoring the obvious ways of being "careful" on the theory that they couldn't possibly apply to one's self.


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

I consider myself a pretty intelligent guy.....and seriously, before I signed onto this forum, I NEVER would have thought about an emotional affair as even a phrase or some kind of terminology. I figured an affair was about sex. And, to be honest, sex isn't my number one priority - its not number 100 either.... 

That is part of the reason why I finally signed on to ask some people about what I was thinking/feeling. Like I said, I dont think I have anyone I'd feel comfortable with talking to about this. I certainly wasn't going to open a can of worms with my wife for something I felt had zero chance of happening. 

I didnt see the exGF to feel her out for interest in me and if she made a sexual advance that night, I am certain I would have stopped that in its tracks. 

But this EA stuff....I mean - I told her if she needed someone to chat with that she could email/text. I thought I was genially being considerate. Now after reading thought those two boos and reading some posts....I see how that can be pandoras box.

And I almost feel like I went through a little case of withdrawl last year regarding the sister!
Maybe after the third or fourth time the foursome group went out?
I thought about her for a few days - I was like what the hell?! I didn't want to cheat and I wasn't thinkjng about sex with her, I was just thinkjng about the fun time we all had and how it would be fun again. I saw her again after that - and nothing happened and I didnt feel the same sort of withdraw/whatever feeling. But I still had fun.

Maybe I thought because nothing happened with the sister, nothing would or could happen with the exGF.

I did like the compliments the exGF gave me, she liked the playlists I had, loved riding in the car, hitting some old spots. She took an appreciation in something I was really passionate about. Whereas its not really my wife's cup of tea. So then I read about this EA stuff and I'm like oh my god, this is how is starts?! Maybe it would not happen with the exGF - but maybe with some other person in the future?

And then, all of the things the exGF was liking and/or making me feel good about - I would never have without my wife!
She was the one who encouraged me to take some risks, and sucked it up when I was working 60-80 hour weeks, hardly making any money at the time.....
Would the exGF be as supportive?? Doubtful

So pretty much everything I have can be directly attributed to an amazing wife and then I kind of dither around with other women so I can get an ego stroke or play a hero maybe who can help an exGF with her troubles? I'd say I have a little room for improvement still :0
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Yeah - but cudos to you for figuring it out before you went over the line. I wish I'd been so fortunate. You are right - this is exactly how EA's start - you can see why it is such a slippery slope. 

I still say there's something missing in your marriage. That sounds negative or bad - it's not. For my wife and I it was really nothing more than the saying, "familiarity breeds contempt." Time and life just settled in like they always do. Date your wife - work on getting that sparky feeling with her - and her with you.


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

i'd have to agree at some level, there may be something missing. maybe something small? maybe she is missing something too? 

i sort of asked her a little about that, and she said she doesnt think anything is missing and kind of looked at me odd. she isnt the overly emotional type and really doesnt spend too much time overanalyzing things. I am probably the one who does that more, she has said sometimes I am the "girl" in our marriage !

when we go out, which is quite alot compared to some of our other friends, we have fun. i said before she likes some fancy places sometimes (and so do i), but we have done some applebees+movies dates with drinks afterwards....we chat and have fun!

i got married when I was 22 and moved out of my home town, met my wife at college. 

i really didnt stay too much in contact with some of my friends from back then. a few years ago i started talking with one of my friends (the friend/wife/sister - foursome friend) and things lined up where I could go visit and he could come up a few times for our shared interest/project (cars). 

my friends back then (i.e. when i was 18-22) had parties, girls, nice cars. i was slugging away at college, then i got married, starting working, we had kids/house, i started a business 10 years ago, and it really has only been in the last 3-4 years that I everything has settled out. 

So that afforded me some time and ability to rekindle my long lost hobby (cars), which led to reconnecting with my friend who was also the best man at our wedding. 

Now I go down to visit and, I am not trying to be rude or concieted or something, but (with the exception of my friend) most of these other people are stuck in a rut bad....some have been married and divorced already, some (like exGF) their marriage is on the skids/breaking up, and they are very very chatty with me now. 

I think this is just basically temptation? I can go out have drinking with my friends here on an occasional guy nite, and we will see a nice looking girl, and sure I would look and they might say something like check her out. But I would NEVER approach her, buy drinks for her or anything like that, not in a million years.

But when I take a trip to my hometown, get a little distance, and see these people from my past, its like a temptation I guess? Like i could become an alcoholic on it or something. And the exGF? maybe she is the highest proof liquor you can get.... 

I wasnt looking for sex, we didnt kiss, or anything like that, so I figured 'how bad could this really be'. But man....now instead of "kind of looking forward to seeing her again maybe" ... i'm hoping she doesnt actually text me....


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

i should probably sign up for some more race track events this summer, i get a little sparky feeling pushing the needle past 110mph too  and that really wont get me in too much trouble, well - not with the wife anyway.

its been quite an eye opener here, i think talking about this has really led me to think that i have actually have a weak spot, and with the right mix of events, that weak spot can become excited. Even though I love my wife and I think my life is great, i have a weak spot somewhere in me.

i appreciate the comments here from the guy who was like "your're f'ing cheating already" to reading peoples stories and comments like Sigma.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

fordracing01 said:


> i sort of asked her a little about that, and she said she doesnt think anything is missing and kind of looked at me odd. she isnt the overly emotional type and really doesnt spend too much time overanalyzing things. I am probably the one who does that more, she has said sometimes I am the "girl" in our marriage !
> 
> *****
> 
> ...


Almost anyone can learn how to connect with their spouse in a deeper way. If you get her to take the Her Needs questionnaire and the 5 Love Languages questionnaire, you will gain more insight into how she perceives when love is expressed to her. People tend to express love to others the way THEY like to receive it. The problem is, there are many ways to express love and many couples' preferences don't overlap.

As far as women hanging on you, yes, for the 1,000th time, when you are away from your spouse, having intimate sharing conversations with people that you are sexually attracted to is a bad idea. Especially mixed with alcohol.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Yeah, the 5 Love Languages is a great resource.

Good for you for recognizing this in yourself. Many guys never do, or they don't until it's too late.


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## gav (Nov 13, 2011)

fordracing01 said:


> its been quite an eye opener here, i think talking about this has really led me to think that i have actually have a weak spot, and with the right mix of events, that weak spot can become excited. Even though I love my wife and I think my life is great, i have a weak spot somewhere in me.


Everyone has that weak spot. Boundaries are about protecting it, and not putting yourself into positions where that weak spot can get exploited.

It's also critical to have accountability, and that's what transparency gets you (i.e. telling your wife about the time spent with others, etc)


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

I have some news :0
So.....as a few people have mentioned, someone usually gets in touch with someone - right?
Well....she emailed and chatted me a few times.
I was very glad I talked a bit here and even confided in a male friend of mine from out of town on this topic.

What a crazy girl! :0 

She is seeing someone else, and is in a bad spot. I feel for her in a compassion way, but man! What drama!!! Talking to her has made me think even better of my wife!
I was specific a few times in the chats that I can listen maybe offer advice, but I want to keep anything we say or do 100% legit - no funny stuff. She agreed and said she did not want to get involved with a second married man. I of course told her there was no way I was leaving my family!
I also told the wife we talked too

So it seems better - less risky perhaps? But definitely a learning experience about my thought process a bit :0
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

fordracing01 said:


> i have some news :0
> so.....as a few people have mentioned, someone usually gets in touch with someone - right?
> Well....she emailed and chatted me a few times.
> I was very glad i talked a bit here and even confided in a male friend of mine from out of town on this topic.
> ...


*O. M. G.*

I'm really really sorry. You are NOT going to get validation for entering an emotional affair with this woman from me, that is for H*LL sure. 

You are really p*ssing me off. The first thing it makes me think is whether or not you're a troll, which is almost the worst thing you can call someone on an Internet forum. If you're not, you are one hard-headed little *****.


--------------------------

No, this is not okay.

Here is what you do:

You are going to tell your wife that she contacted you again and wants to complain about her current relationship.

BTW, complaining about her boyfriend is how she is going to get your sympathy. This is the damsel in distress. You pretend to us to hate the drama but oh, my, are you having fun helping her out with her relationship problems.

Discussing relationship problems with a woman who is not your wife is INAPPROPRIATE and completely WRONG.

So once you tell your wife that she's contacted you, you are going to sit down with her and find a convenient time to call this woman together. Then on speaker phone, you are going to tell this woman that you have reconsidered what you said to her. You now understand that it is not appropriate for a married man to help a woman with her boyfriend problems. And that while she may be a nice person, she really needs to find someone else in her life to rely on her for this type of advice.

Then you are going to say: have a nice life. I'm sorry we can't talk again. Hope things work out for you. My wife is right here listening to all of this.

The End.

I still suspect you're a troll, because trolls seem to enjoy attention seeking in provocative ways. Their posts seem to entirely ignore what others say to them, as if they enjoy pushing people's buttons. I was hoping, when I saw you posted, that you were writing to say how you'd read The 5 Love Languages and discovered something new about your wife, and you were using this experience to reinvigorate your marriage and figuring out how to be happier WITH YOUR WIFE. But no....sorry, I don't intend to post in your thread again, so you have a nice life, too.


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

I think what I meant was that whatever I thought originally about that girl was made blatenty clear that it was as crazy fantasy/detached reality idea. In taking with her a bit more, it's crystal clear she is kind a nut case. So any fantasy/etc ideas totally evaporated when put in perspective with what was discussed here and I told my wife about the chats and didn't even think for a second about glossing over details.

Guess I was trying to relay my last post as being a quick follow-up and a thank you to the people who discussed this with me and pointed me to those books. Between what I read and talking with my wife more, I feel much better! So thanks 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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