# I don't want to get married and trying to collect my thoughts



## old school (Feb 9, 2016)

Hello, I have been pondering about marriage and why I think the way I do towards it. I am a 31 year old male that has had two long term relationships in the last 10 years, one for 8 years and one for 1.5 years that I am still in. I have always been faithful, and I am not interested in having a bunch of g/fs. I have a stable job that pays well, own my own house by myself, and can take care of everything I need to. With all of that I can't see myself ever getting married and I feel that's unfair to my current gf. Let me explain.

From my perspective I don't understand what I gain from being married, however marriage is important to my gf. I have come to the conclusion she feels that marriage gives power to the statement that she is a valid person, or worthy of something if a person is willing to make as serious of a commitment as getting married. Most of her friends are married, or getting married, and I can tell it wears on her. I understand the pressure to get married but at the same time I have no desire to ever get married, which could be a problem. I am very independent but I do enjoy the company, friendship, and different outlooks on life that my g/f has. It seems natural for me to be in a relationship. But I never see a relationship ending in marriage.

Marriage to me is not about having someone to split the bills with, someone to help get my life together, or as a "insurance policy" to bring assurance to my life. I can fully support myself and don't want my gf to pay any of my bills since they are mine. If I were to get married I would not have a joint account, I already told my gf her money is hers to do what she wishes. If she moves in and wants to contribute a couple hundred a month towards the bills that's fine, but i would never in any way expect her to pay half of anything I own. She seems to not be ok with that since she feels she would be not be a co-owner of my house, and it would be wrong not to contribute more. 

I don't have anything to benefit from tax breaks or financially by getting married but there are lots of other things. I don't want to have a family since I feel it's morally wrong to have a child unless I can devote significant time towards raising them. I am very busy and work a lot. Unfortunately I am a (self diagnosed) workaholic and find that I put myself in situations that require a lot of time and effort. My idea of a life is not to go to work, and come home to a stay at home wife and child. Don't get me wrong if I were to have a child by accident, I would absolutely step up and take care of the kid. However if I have the choice I don't want kids to come home to, mainly because I don't have the time to put into a child that I feel is needed.

So I don't gain anything financially, and I don't want a family, so what do I gain getting married ? Having a close friend to do things with and travel with is what I have had for the last 10 years without marriage, and I am ok with that. I just can't help but feel I am wasting the time of most of the women I would potentially date since they are likely more motivated towards family and marriage. What should I do?


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

This isn't a hard one for deciding what to do. Just be honest with your girlfriends. If a woman really wants to get married and have a family and you don't, then she'll find someone else. Who knows, you might change your opinion down the road.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> marriage is important to my gf.
> 
> But I never see a relationship ending in marriage.


You HAVE to tell your gf that you never, ever, ever want to get married, and be very, very clear about it. 

Absolutely do NOT have her change her entire life around to move in with you unless you have told her very clearly that you will not be marrying her or anyone else, ever. 

Anything less than complete honesty and clear statements that you never want to marry, and you'd be stringing her along and deceiving her. She wants a marriage relationship and marriage in her life, and she will not be happy to be duped or strung along for years only to be told years from now that you have no desire for marriage and never did.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Let her know that you will not be getting married. So, she can leave and find someone who does. Since, this is important to her, you are giving her the opportunity to move on. 

Be honest. Tell her just like you wrote. I see no benefits from getting married. I don't want kids. Just don't expect this from me.

Be prepared for her to try to change your mind. And her trying to sell you on the idea of marriage and having kids. If this is not what you want, don't let her force you into any commitment. 

Look around TAM, there are so many miserable people, who should have never be married. There is no happiness in a marriage that you feel like you are forced into. Resentment will build and all the little affection you share will erode. Safe bet is to end things and find a like minded lady.

Good luck. Let us know how you proceed.


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## Grogmiester (Nov 23, 2015)

old school said:


> I understand the pressure to get married but at the same time *I have no desire to ever get married*, which could be a problem.
> 
> So I don't gain anything financially, and *I don't want a family*, so what do I gain getting married ?


Have you told her that you don't want to be married and not have children at any time in the future? It would be unfair if you haven't. 

With your criteriour of no marriage and no children I would think it would be difficult for a lot of single childless woman to accept.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

no man or woman should ever be pressured into marriage, it is not for everyone, and i dear say there are those who get married once and realize it is not for them. As long as you are honest and upfront with that declaration, with any woman you intend to spend any significant time with. If they stay after that, in hopes to change your mind then the own-ness is on them. That i believe will be your biggest issue to content with, women who you date and are up front with, will take it in their own hands to change your mind.


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## OpenWindows (Dec 25, 2015)

Just curious - is the problem with the concept of marriage, or the legal institution of it? Would you feel any differently about a private marriage ceremony with no legal paperwork involved?

If you don't want marriage, that's fine. But I agree with Norajane... You must be very, painfully clear about this. People who want to get married often hear what they want to, so "I'm not interested in marriage" may sound more like "I'm not interested in marriage right now."


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## header (Nov 14, 2015)

I'm with you buddy except it took me one marriage to figure it out.

What you do is you explain your feelings to any potential long term girlfriend and let her decide if she wants to stay in the relationship.

Your girlfriend already expects to be a co-owner of your house.. what does that tell you about her and her motivations?


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

It's pretty simple: If you don't want to get married, then don't get married. It's purely optional. 

Are you afraid you'll lose your girlfriend if you tell her that you don't want to get married, or that you'll lose her eventually if you don't marry her at some point?


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

old school said:


> I just can't help but feel I am wasting the time of most of the women I would potentially date since they are likely more motivated towards family and marriage. What should I do?


You are only wasting women's time if you fail to tell them on the first date that you never want to get married.

You have to tell the woman you are currently with your honest feelings about marriage and children.

A side observation. If you don't want children, but want to be sexually active, get a vasectomy to make sure you never end up having to pay child support. 

Also, it will make it easier for women to take you seriously, and not think they might be able to change your mind if they know that they will never be able to have children with you.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> You are only wasting women's time if you fail to tell them on the first date that you never want to get married.
> 
> You have to tell the woman you are currently with your honest feelings about marriage and children.
> 
> ...


After you've had that vasectomy, tell women on the first date that you have had a vasectomy because you are serious about not getting married or having children.

There is a woman out there who also feels the way you do. You won't find her as long as you spend years in relationships with women who want to marry and have children.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Something like this calls for *brutal honesty*... you need to sit down & make it very very clear this will NEVER HAPPEN.. if this is what she wants.. she will not find it with you.. no kids.. no walking down the aisle, no celebration of a lifelong union...

When I was young.. I talked very openly about my hopes & dreams.. I WANTED the marrying type...nothing else would satisfy me..... I wanted A FAMILY.. had he bulked in any way.. I would have had to move on.. though this was many years ago.. and not all that hard to find..

I genuinely feel bad for those who seek it today, it's a different world...

I feel the women who want this, care about it deeply, that it's more than "just a piece of paper" to them....would serve themselves well to be mindful many of these more traditionally minded men get swooped up earlier in the game... 

Not to mention once a man has went through a divorce or a string of bad relationships.. often he never wants to go there again...it has a way of forever tainting one's worldview on it..


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

There's nothing wrong with you not getting married. My 57-year-old BIL has never married and he's (seemingly) perfectly happy. What would be wrong, however, is dating a woman and getting her to invest her valuable years on you if she doesn't know you have no intention of marrying. 

So are you breaking up with her now?


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## Ol'Pal (Aug 24, 2015)

You are a very smart man Old School!


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## tickled_pink (Feb 9, 2016)

@old school I agree with you on the marriage front. I don't want to get married either, and I think people can be in beautiful life-long partnerships without having to be legally married. I also can't justify why a person would spend thousands of dollars on a dress, but you know, people are strange. And good for them.

The problem with being in a relationship with someone who sees a necessity for the relationship to progress towards marriage when you don't is that eventually someone's got to give. It's an unfortunate reality. If you can't compromise, then it's going to be either her way or yours, and you marrying her just because she values marriage is just as bad as her not marrying you because you don't value it. And to be honest, either situation is not fair to the other party.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

It's absolutely your right to not get married, there's nothing wrong with not being married. It's also your girlfriend's right to want to get married and have a family. Neither of you are right or wrong.

What would be wrong is for you to not be upfront and 100% honest with her. If you do that and she chooses to stay, then that's on her, because you told her. 

Don't marry her if you're not 100% into it. 

I find your reasons for not wanting to be married a little sad, I'll be honest, and wonder what happened to make you so cynical and clinical about it  There's so much more to marriage that finances, tax breaks and legalities. I love being married and wouldn't change it for the world.


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## old school (Feb 9, 2016)

Wow I never thought I would get so many responses, thanks for everything that was said. I will add some more details.

Obviously there are lots of reasons to get married. I won't live forever and the support structure a marriage and potential family could provide can help through rough times no doubt. For me it comes down to numerous factors for not wanting to get married. I did have a rough childhood and came from a divorced home. Every woman I have ever dated came from typical mother/father household, and have had a hard time relating to what I went though. I also had to become almost completely self reliant at 16 years old due circumstances out of my control. I was home schooled for end of middle/high school as well, which amounted to me reading books and teaching myself everything. Overall I was left with doing everything to be self reliant and not requiring other people to help. 

When it comes down to it I don't need to be married or have a family to feel that I have something. Many women I have dated seem to use marital status as a judgement of worth. This makes me feel bad because I start to feel more like I should push them away towards someone else that could fulfill their dreams. This is what happened with my 8 year relationship, I had to end to so she would realize that I wasn't likely to change and the longer she stayed with me the less likely she would find someone that could be that person. It was a bitter pill to swallow.

I have been upfront with my current g/f and told her I never saw myself as a father, and I never planned on having children or getting married. She accepted that at first, however the other day she really put me in a bind. I offered for her to come live with me for 500$ a month all in (her current apartment costs her 1200 a month and she is pretty strapped for cash always since she is a teacher and has massive loans). The 500$ wouldn't even pay the property tax and water bill at my place, so I didn't feel that was unreasonable. Well she told me if she moves in with me she isn't moving out, aka implying that unless I am serious about marriage and going to the next level with things, she wouldn't move. I completely get what she is saying, and I have never moved in to someone else's place so I can't only imagine the hassle. However I felt as though this put a massive burden on me to make things work in the relationship. What I viewed as a offer to help get her on her feet and get her finances in better shape turned into a commitment toward long term relationship with marriage in the picture.
She has talked about the "next level" of a relationship a lot recently, and I just can't relate to why a piece of paper means so much.

When it comes down to it I don't expect anyone to put up with my bs and I don't expect anyone to sign a contract that says they have to or else there are serious reprocusions. I don't feel anyone that's with me should be stuck with me for any other reason than they want to be with me. I am not against marriage but I am against someone signing up to support me when they don't know what they are getting themselves into. I work too much, have some health issues (neurological) that could significantly change my abilities in the next 10 years. I am overly ambitious and always dream about stuff I can do. It's very hard to keep up with me and even harder not to be overwhelmed.

When I met my gf I was working rotating 12 hour shifts for 50 to 70 hours a week, and working 30 to 50 hours a week on my house (I own a old school that I am restoring and its a massive undertaking). She liked that I was busy, doing something with my life, and had talent. During the honeymoon phase of the relationship I was her dream man and she would have said yes at any point if I had asked her to marry me. Yet I stood in the shadows and realized that my crazy work schedule and 10 year house project would wear anyone out and would be a issue. I think that has become reality as of late. My schedule has gotten worse and I can't do anything about it short of quitting. I am 3 years into a 10 to 12 year (potentially 20 year) restoration of my place. I don't have the time to spend with the gf I would like, but my responsibilities can't be swept under a carpet unfortunately. 

I guess when it comes down to it I just need to be honest as suggested and have a talk with her and cover everything. I have already seen/still see a therapist and that does help with my issues so I will run that by the therapist. I guess sometimes I wish I didn't have so much else going on around me that it would make sense to have kids and a family. I just can't sacrifice the well being of a child of mine and significant other by never being around.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

If you don't want to get married, don't. Especially if you don't want children. NEVER get married because someone else wants to. Certain recipe for failure.

Be honest with your GF about this. It's up to her whether she wants to break up with you over it.

Breakups happen between good people all the time b/c of incompatible life goals. There would be fewer divorces if people didn't try to push square pegs in round holes. Beat the odds, please.

You already know all this, and what to do. You are just struggling with not being a tool, or feeling like one. Up to you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So basically you let her into your life because she made your life easy.

Time to be honest. And show integrity.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Have you gotten a vasectomy? If not, do you plan to get one?
Do you wear a condom every time you have sex?

I'm asking to see if your conduct aligns with your life plan. 

Because perhaps the worst outcome for your current GF is you accidentally get her pregnant. 

There are women who don't want kids. Generally they are less intent on getting married. 

Have you been 100% clear with your current GF? 

Perfectly fine to avoid marriage and kids provided you are transparent about your views up front. 

And up front doesn't mean saying: it's not a priority for me
Up front is saying: I've decided I'm NOT going to get married and I also make every effort to ensure I don't get anyone pregnant. 




old school said:


> Hello, I have been pondering about marriage and why I think the way I do towards it. I am a 31 year old male that has had two long term relationships in the last 10 years, one for 8 years and one for 1.5 years that I am still in. I have always been faithful, and I am not interested in having a bunch of g/fs. I have a stable job that pays well, own my own house by myself, and can take care of everything I need to. With all of that I can't see myself ever getting married and I feel that's unfair to my current gf. Let me explain.
> 
> From my perspective I don't understand what I gain from being married, however marriage is important to my gf. I have come to the conclusion she feels that marriage gives power to the statement that she is a valid person, or worthy of something if a person is willing to make as serious of a commitment as getting married. Most of her friends are married, or getting married, and I can tell it wears on her. I understand the pressure to get married but at the same time I have no desire to ever get married, which could be a problem. I am very independent but I do enjoy the company, friendship, and different outlooks on life that my g/f has. It seems natural for me to be in a relationship. But I never see a relationship ending in marriage.
> 
> ...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

old school said:


> Wow I never thought I would get so many responses, thanks for everything that was said. I will add some more details.
> 
> Obviously there are lots of reasons to get married. I won't live forever and the support structure a marriage and potential family could provide can help through rough times no doubt. For me it comes down to numerous factors for not wanting to get married. I did have a rough childhood and came from a divorced home. Every woman I have ever dated came from typical mother/father household, and have had a hard time relating to what I went though. I also had to become almost completely self reliant at 16 years old due circumstances out of my control. I was home schooled for end of middle/high school as well, which amounted to me reading books and teaching myself everything. Overall I was left with doing everything to be self reliant and not requiring other people to help.


 I had a lousy upbringing too.. came from very incompatible parents who had near nothing in common, I remember the fights.. 

I have found through reading about differing marriage styles ...sometimes those with the more dire situations seem to want the whole "soulmate" thing even more so....I was one of those...

But true...we're all different....and want / aim for different goals in life...these things are just not important to you, you see those only slowing you down... you are more inclined towards success...you are proud of your achievements.... this being your brand of fulfillment.. you would be well matched with another women with similar goals & ideals who bordered being a workaholic herself ... loves her Job, family not something important...or the piece of paper. 

We all need to know thyself.. then get out there & find someone compatible for who we are. 



> When it comes down to it I don't expect anyone to put up with my bs and I don't expect anyone to sign a contract that says they have to or else there are serious reprocusions. I don't feel anyone that's with me should be stuck with me for any other reason than they want to be with me. I am not against marriage but I am against someone signing up to support me when they don't know what they are getting themselves into.* I work too much, have some health issues (neurological) that could significantly change my abilities in the next 10 years. I am overly ambitious and always dream about stuff I can do. It's very hard to keep up with me and even harder not to be overwhelmed.*
> 
> *When I met my gf I was working rotating 12 hour shifts for 50 to 70 hours a week, and working 30 to 50 hours a week on my house (I own a old school that I am restoring and its a massive undertaking).* *She liked that I was busy, doing something with my life, and had talent. * During the honeymoon phase of the relationship I was her dream man and she would have said yes at any point if I had asked her to marry me. Yet I stood in the shadows and realized that my crazy work schedule and 10 year house project would wear anyone out and would be a issue. I think that has become reality as of late. My schedule has gotten worse and I can't do anything about it short of quitting. I am 3 years into a 10 to 12 year (potentially 20 year) restoration of my place.* I don't have the time to spend with the gf I would like, but my responsibilities can't be swept under a carpet unfortunately. *


 This is something I personally wouldn't understand about your girlfriend.. how in the world doesn't this WORK load bother her ... seriously? how much time do you even spend with her.. 2 hours a week???

This has to be some sort of issue ?? I would suspect she is looking to forge the finances together for a better lifestyle ... that spending time with her man is really not all that important.. 

I would think those who genuinely care about the whole marriage thing value so much TIME together... or what is the purpose.. My husband likes to say.. "If you don't care to spend time together.. why get married at all"..... 




> I guess sometimes I wish I didn't have so much else going on around me that it would make sense to have kids and a family. I just can't sacrifice the well being of a child of mine and significant other by never being around.


This is wise..


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

The issue isn't really whether you want to get married or not - the issue is what may or may not be driving your decision. That's what you need to be clear on, to ensure that you're making the right choice for you, and not robbing yourself of something truly wonderful due to fear 

Marriage, when it's to the right person, is wonderful. I love being married, and have a happy, peaceful, loving relationship with my husband. Do we get on each other's nerves at times? Sure we do, but the love we share and the fun times we have in the life that we're building together FAR outweigh those times. All of our stressors are external (ex wives, in laws etc.) so we are careful to protect our marriage from those things.

On the other hand, marriage isn't for everyone and that's ok! Some people just don't want to be married - they're happy single and that's their choice and their right. No one should be pressured into marriage, that's not cool.

As long you're sure and confident in your decision not to marry, that's all that matters. You are not responsible for your gf's happiness. What you must do is be 100% honest and clear with her. Don't say "I don't see myself..." or "I'm not sure if..." or "Maybe in the future...", you MUST be black and white "I am not ever getting married and I do not want children, that will not change". Once you've told her bluntly and honestly, you have done all you can to "protect" her. What she does with that info, whether she stays or goes (and she might and that's her right) is on her.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

To not want to be married is absolutely your prerogative. However, you must be open and honest with your gf on this, also the fact you do not want kids. Tbh, you are still quite young and might change your mind. My H and I were younger than you when we met and felt the same way, no desire to get married and never talked about kids. Things changed for us because of family pressure and we married and things changed absolutely a few years later when I got pregnant accidentally, we had never discussed kids!

So all I am saying is that circumstances change, your feelings will change, be prepared!


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## Grogmiester (Nov 23, 2015)

OP, as I said previously, it's ok not to want to be married and not have children as long as you are totally up front with her.

Having said that, you tell us why you don't want to be married ,,,

Self sufficient

Don't want children

Work many hours and also at home renovations.

Don't need tax breaks or someone to split the bills.

So why do you want a gf? Nothing in your post mentions the need for love, affection, touch, companion, lover. 

Your description of marriage sounds so clinically devoid of a connection to someone. Im just trying to understand your position. Maybe I'm missing something.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

It's okay not to want to get married nor have children. However, many posters here mentioned that you need to let your girlfriend know that you don't want to get married nor have children. 

Having a wife and children will change your single life. The responsibility of having children can take a heavy toll on the time that you dedicate to your career and other activities. Many individuals don't consider these issues when they get involved in serious relationships.

My 36 year old single nephew got into this scenario. He got his girlfriend pregnant, got engaged to her, lived together, and decided that a married life is not for him. However, he is paying child support and is holding two jobs! Really, got himself into a pickle as the mother of his child is now jobless.


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## OpenWindows (Dec 25, 2015)

As long as you date girls who have a long-term goal of marriage, you will cause this problem for yourself. You need to seek out a woman who doesn't want marriage or children. You may have more luck with women who are slightly older or previously divorced... they're more likely to be confident in their decisions about these things.

Your current GF sees moving in with you as the natural course of a relationship - date, live together, get engaged, get married. She thinks you're progressing in the relationship, not just trying to make her life easier.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Hi old school, you have your life and your priorities set up as you want it, and there's nothing wrong with it.

It sounds like you made the offer for your girlfriend to move in because you wanted to help her financially. I'm guessing that you really care about her as well, of course. The offer is a kind and caring thing to do for her. 

I agree with you and the other posters that your girlfriend likely believes your offer is a sign that the relationship is progressing. I mean, of course it is, you've just asked her to move in with you. 

So yeah, I think it's in your and her best interest that you are very clear with her: you are making this offer because you enjoy her company, you care about her, and it will help her out financially. Not much else changes on your end after that- you work long hours, and when you're not working, you dedicate many hours to fixing up the house. You will not be getting married or starting up a family. You would like to deepen your relationship with her, and that us your goal. Marriage and kids are not options for you. You are firmly not interested in either if those two outcomes. Is that about right? If you're crystal clear with her, you've given her a chance to make a truly informed decision. 

I agree with MEM and others: if you haven't yet, get a vasectomy. It's the closest thing you can get to absolutely remaining child-free. And it makes it very clear to girlfriends/dates that you are serious. But mostly, it keeps you safe from a simple birth control failure error changing your world.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

You should definitely not get married if you don't want to.

Actually, I would say that no man should get married in the US or other misandrist country, as there is tremendous risk for negligible benefit.

However, you should definitely tell your girlfriend your position on this.

And you should also get that vasectomy immediately. If you don't, you are letting yourself in for a world of hurt if you get her, or any woman pregnant and she wants to take you to the cleaners via child support. You have no rights and enormous obligations in that situation.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

MEM11363 said:


> Have you gotten a vasectomy? If not, do you plan to get one?
> Do you wear a condom every time you have sex?
> 
> I'm asking to see if your conduct aligns with your life plan.
> ...


No, that is the worst outcome for *him*, not for her. He is royally screwed if she gets pregnant, and not in a good way.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Your gf went along at the start because she probably thought you'd change your mind once you saw how great she is, or how strong the relationship is. Its a common thing women tell themselves. There's nothing wrong with not wanting marriage, as others have stated. There's nothing wrong with your gf wanting marriage, either. There IS something wrong if you try to maintain a relationship with your gf, knowing she feels the way she does. If you haven't told her point blank that you will NEVER marry, NEVER have children, and if she has any desire for either before she dies she must move on immediately, then you have a job to do. 

Sorry to be blunt, but if you care about her, you need to let her go. If you stay, and she "acquiesces" to your desire for no marriage/children, once her good years are gone, they're gone, and you can bet she'll blame you for wasting her chances, even if it's totally her responsibility to find her happiness. We have a bad habit of self sacrificing for the men we love, often for men that won't give us what we really desire anyway, and we are often looking out for others instead of pursuing our own happiness. It takes an unselfish man to shake a woman into reality, even if it ends sadly. The problem is we have a shelf life in certain respects and this is something a man doesn't have to understand until he's older, comparatively. 

You may go through your 30s enjoying not being married, then realize you want children once you turn 40. Men reassess the future around 40, and if you do want kids, youll be having them with a younger woman, a woman that's not your current gf.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

I didn't have bad childhood, quite the opposite actually, but I did have a horrible marriage and can relate to you asking the question "how would getting married enhance my life". I have asked that of myself often in the last 5 years since divorce and never found a suitable answer.

I think you just need to be honest with her. I think you assume she means marriage but what she could mean is that you are serious about her and this isn't some frivolous thing. You won't know unless you ask her. I have lived with my current GF 1.5 and we have zero talks about marriage. That's not our end goal. We have no end goal on our relationship just constant dedication of working on it together


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Old School, on a different note you should not have your girlfriend move in with you. Moving in together in a house that is owned solely by you transfers a certain amount of relationship power from her to you. Essentially, she is dependent on you for her living arrangements and that requires certain securities in the relationship. Since you don't want to progress the relationship and give her those securities, you need to realize that if you break up and she's in your house it will be a lot harder on her than if she is in her own place. It could also be a lot harder on her financially in the long run if you break up because she would get accustomed to living on $500/month rent and if she adapts her lifestyle to that (e.g. buys a nicer car, etc.) then she could be in financial ruin if she left. I realize your offer for her to move in is because you are being a nice guy, but it is not your job to support her and it will change the relationship dynamic in ways you probably aren't ready for.


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## OpenWindows (Dec 25, 2015)

Bananapeel said:


> Old School, on a different note you should not have your girlfriend move in with you. Moving in together in a house that is owned solely by you transfers a certain amount of relationship power from her to you. Essentially, she is dependent on you for her living arrangements and that requires certain securities in the relationship. Since you don't want to progress the relationship and give her those securities, you need to realize that if you break up and she's in your house it will be a lot harder on her than if she is in her own place. It could also be a lot harder on her financially in the long run if you break up because she would get accustomed to living on $500/month rent and if she adapts her lifestyle to that (e.g. buys a nicer car, etc.) then she could be in financial ruin if she left. I realize your offer for her to move in is because you are being a nice guy, but it is not your job to support her and it will change the relationship dynamic in ways you probably aren't ready for.


:iagree: 

You feel you are helping her with your offer. But if she moves into a home that she will never have any legal rights to, she'll be making herself dependent on you with no guarantee of future security. I suppose you could draw up a nice, romantic lease agreement... :wink2:


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## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

old school said:


> Hello, I have been pondering about marriage and why I think the way I do towards it. I am a 31 year old male that has had two long term relationships in the last 10 years, one for 8 years and one for 1.5 years that I am still in. I have always been faithful, and I am not interested in having a bunch of g/fs. I have a stable job that pays well, own my own house by myself, and can take care of everything I need to. With all of that I can't see myself ever getting married and I feel that's unfair to my current gf. Let me explain.
> 
> From my perspective I don't understand what I gain from being married, however marriage is important to my gf. I have come to the conclusion she feels that marriage gives power to the statement that she is a valid person, or worthy of something if a person is willing to make as serious of a commitment as getting married. Most of her friends are married, or getting married, and I can tell it wears on her. I understand the pressure to get married but at the same time I have no desire to ever get married, which could be a problem. I am very independent but I do enjoy the company, friendship, and different outlooks on life that my g/f has. It seems natural for me to be in a relationship. But I never see a relationship ending in marriage.
> 
> ...


Basically you are letting money control whether you want to get married or not. It's not about money. I think you are looking at it wrong... ok wrong in my eyes. 

You're girlfriend is look at marriage as a bond and you two uniting as one. She isn't looking at it from a money perspective like you are. It sounds like you need to find a woman who cares about money more than love, like you.


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## old school (Feb 9, 2016)

(You're girlfriend is look at marriage as a bond and you two uniting as one. She isn't looking at it from a money perspective like you are. It sounds like you need to find a woman who cares about money more than love, like you.)

I don't need to be married to feel a bond, or completed. A price of paper of vowed won't make me love someone anymore. I look at the financial end because I will end up being the supporter financially of a family (her and a child) If that would happen. I honestly don't want to be the sole financial supporter of a family along with having a hard time being there physically for her/ the child. As much as she would be gaining a child and a husband, I would loose much of my freedom, I would have to change jobs/careers, financially I would loose significant amounts of pay, and I run the risk of still not being around enough to maintain a healthy relationship with the "wife" and potential child. This could very well lead to divorce and problems.

Love is great however I don't have a gaping hole in my heart that needs to be filled by a significant other. I get that by helping people as much as I can. I do care about my g/f a lot. I want to help her and be there for her. However my motivations and ambitions that existed the day I met her haven't seemed to slow down, and what she found attractive at first has worn thin. I know I have to find a balance in my life but it's a lot easier to say than do when your in the situation I am in with my personality.

Maybe a vasectomy is the answer, although I do have reservations about getting one. It certainly would take care of the "well you could have kids if you wanted" issue that pops up. I have known some guys that became fathers at mid 40s so there is always the possibility I might change my mind. It's unlikely that I will though. 


Thanks for the posts about her moving in. I guess I never saw it that way. If she did move in and didnt bank the 700$+ a month she saved, she would be no better off if she had to move out due to a breakup. She talked a lot about owning her own house but she hasn't hit the point where she is willing to live in a cheaper apartment In order to save enough money for a down payment. Realistically I don't see her being able to afford to buy a house in the next 5 years unless she drastically saved money. I felt giving her the opportunity to live with me would save her so much money she would be able to achieve one of her dreams. I guess it's not that simple.


I have questioned why I am in a relationship at all, as has been asked of me here. I think it comes down to I was doing what I normally do (working a lot). My now gf I randomly met, hit it off unexpectedly, and started dating. I tend not to pass up things that could be potentially great. Most of the males my age I know don't have much education, live at home with their parents, or flat out don't have their lives together. That makes it hard to have friends to do stuff with since nobody has money, time, or just want to drink all of the time. My gf and I have done lots of stuff together (although not so much as of late), and she is a partner I can trust. I view our relationship as a friendship above all else, and I want to be there for her just like any of my other friends. 

It's just hard because I do care about her but things are falling in the same path as my last relationship. Where I find myself one day in a situation that I have to end things so the other person can have what they want in life. My ex of 8 years wanted kids, and I really didn't as the years went by. She would have been a great mother and been really happy to have a child. She told me near the end that she would give up having a child if that's what it took to be with me. I couldn't let her make that decision since that is too important of life goal to give up for anyone. Just like if I wanted to have a child I would absolutely find someone to have one with.

At this point I think I will just clarify things with her. She won't be moving in anytime soon, I know that. I will have to work on spending more time with her as well. I am only working 44 hours a week at work for the next 3 weeks, and maybe 25 hours a week on my house. She has spent a lot of time helping out around my place (that's how we met in the first place, she came to me wanting to learn how to fix houses up) which is most of the time we have spent together. I will see what I can do to.

Thanks again for all the replies. A lot of the posts really made me open my eyes and look at how my thought process works and where my faults might be. How I need to be more upfront with things. I am glad I came here.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

I think it is a very bad idea for her to move in under the circumstances. She will be a paying tenant and a lover, losing her own apartment, and yet it is only your house. Can she decorate it? Paint a room? Can she have a say in how she wants something remodeled? What about food? Will you each buy your own, and cook for yourselves? Or do you take turns cooking? Is she going to take the traditional role of cooking and cleaning, and convenient FB for a measly $600 a month?

You know that when she moves in she will naturally want to "play house" and settle in. It will be kind of like pretending the two of you ae married.

If the two of you were actually married, and had equal ownership and footing (planned to be together for life, and everything that one has is automatically now joint) all the little issues would be worked out to be mutually beneficial.

What happens if you die? Someone else claims the house and she has to move out.

Before the two of you move forward, you definitely need a lease, and a written understanding about all the other things each of you currently takes care of on your own, as well as whether she has any say on anything having to do with the house. 

It was very wise for you to check with lots of other people about this. You and she were about to make a terrible decision for both of you.

Just keep dating each other, and each of you keep your own place. Make sure she knows that you will never marry her.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, to be perfectly frank, it doesn't sound like you love your girlfriend. Or like you really want a deeply committed long-term relationship. The way you speak of your relationship, and her, makes the whole deal sound more like she's an accessory in your life - fun to have but not a priority. 

I also agree with others that having her move in is a bad plan. She very likely sees her moving in as you two living together either as a step toward marriage, or as a step toward being at least being a committed, married-but-not-married, long-term couple. You seem to view it as you giving her somewhere cheaper to stay so she can save up and move out into her own place later. Those are very different perceptions and goals. 

You two need to seriously talk about the future, so that you are 100% sure she knows where you stand and what you want. It's then up to her to figure out if her own needs are compatible with what you're offering.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Old,
So the real truth is - you aren't ready to have kids - yet. 

You would frame this more generously as: no I have decided, I don't want kids. Almost for certain. 

But after reading pages of what I'd refer to as your 'Independence Manifesto', when we get to the bone on bone stuff. The really core stuff. You punt. Suddenly all this verbiage that is wrapped in a tone of certainty - turns into: well I do have reservations about getting a vasectomy. 

I'm not making fun of you. In fact - quite the opposite. 

The norm in human history is for a big chunk of the populace to have kids and then figure out a plan for providing for them. That approach produces very mixed results. 

So your approach, which is at the far end of the financially conservative pool, ensures that if a child DOES appear, you will be able to take very good care of him or her. 

As far as marriage goes, a few observations. 

1. Marrying the wrong person, has a terrible risk / reward profile. Truly terrible. 
2. The person you are dating now, is always immersed in a pool of financial stress, due to a lack of discipline. 
3. She might or might not love you. She definitely NEEDS someone like you to bail her out of this mess. Mess is defined as: constantly broke. And she knows that. 

All that aside. If you marry someone - not out of need - on either side. Whole different deal. Being ALL IN, with another person is quite the amplifier. 





old school said:


> (You're girlfriend is look at marriage as a bond and you two uniting as one. She isn't looking at it from a money perspective like you are. It sounds like you need to find a woman who cares about money more than love, like you.)
> 
> I don't need to be married to feel a bond, or completed. A price of paper of vowed won't make me love someone anymore. I look at the financial end because I will end up being the supporter financially of a family (her and a child) If that would happen. I honestly don't want to be the sole financial supporter of a family along with having a hard time being there physically for her/ the child. As much as she would be gaining a child and a husband, I would loose much of my freedom, I would have to change jobs/careers, financially I would loose significant amounts of pay, and I run the risk of still not being around enough to maintain a healthy relationship with the "wife" and potential child. This could very well lead to divorce and problems.
> 
> ...


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## OpenWindows (Dec 25, 2015)

If my boyfriend invited me to move in with him, it would never cross my mind that he intended for me to save up and later move out, but continue dating him. 

Just saying.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I wonder what the outcome of this, if anything, was.


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## old school (Feb 9, 2016)

I sat down and talked with her and things have been pretty rocky since the talk. I care about her a lot but at the same time I can't just keep things going for the sake of doing it. I am unsure where things are going to go from here.

I don't want to waste her time (or any woman's time) but Maybe I should just have a vasectomy and that way it doesn't matter if I say I do want kids, it can't happen. This past weekend I went to a overnight party at a cabin with the gf. She got completely drunk (which she never really does) and passed out at 8pm leaving me to hang out with a bunch of people I barely new. When she came to later in the night she was emotional and pulled me aside and said " I don't understand where my life is going". I told her we could talk about it the next day when she wasn't drunk. 

Well the next day in the car on the way back she had a break down that left me upset and questioning what I should really do. She talked about how she doesn't want to go to Colorado in a few weeks to see her sister. I said "why is that" and after talking I found out it was due to her being jealous her younger sister bought a house and she hasn't yet. I told my gf rather than being jealous she should be happy her sister got a house and at that point she went on a 40 minute tirade that amounted to "what is she going to do with her life, all of her friends are married/have kids/own a house/are doing stuff with their life/etc. That she didn't "know what she is supposed to do in her life at this point". 

Now I understand women are raised/ and society pressures push getting married and having a family. My issue is not once in my life have I thought "man I am nobody unless I have a house, am married, or have kids". I have a lot of hobbies and constantly learn new things all the time. If I died tomorrow I would feel in my time on earth I got something done (although not nearly enough). But my gf really seems to feel not having kids/married/ and or a house means she is a failure. I told her that she is not a failure of she doesn't have those things, and that she needs to decide if that's really want she wants in life and be honest about it. She then said "well I am not saying I absolutely have to have those things".. We started bickering at that point.

Honestly my gf will never be able to afford a house on her own unless she moves closer to work (she lives a hour away each way) or drastically cuts her living expenses. I know she realizes that but she doesn't want to admit it. I also know she wants very badly to be married and possibly have kids, once again she dances around an answer because at this point she knows I don't really want kids. She did say recently that she won't move in unless there are future plans for "us" (implying marriage). I respect that however offering her a place to live on the agreement I am going to marry her is not something I am willing to accept. So for the time she definitely won't be moving in.

So I really don't know what's going to happen. I am very disappointed in myself that people find my ambition/work ethic/drive/etc attractive only to find out the dark side of all that, which is being too busy to want to deal with children, limited availability to be there when they need me, etc. If things end in my current relationship I think I will just avoid getting in any relationship beyond friends so that I don't wind up a disappointment again. I don't want to waste anyone's time, and the longer someone wants to be with me the longer I am preventing them from having what they want in their life (atleast that's how I see it).


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If you were planning to go back to the 1960s there would be some advantages for a man to be married. As the institution works in the United States in 2016, there are significant advantages for women and for kids. I'd be hard pressed to sell marriage to an American male. 

You get to sign away half your property and take on another human and all their current and future debt. What do you expect to get in return that you don't presently have?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

If she doesn't know where she's going, or where she WANTS to go, or that she can very easily detach from you to GET what she wants, this is a giant red flag (GRF). She has very little sense of identity but for where YOU are heading. That means, if she stays with you, some day she will likely blame you for all of her unhappiness and her "choices" when in fact, she never had any to begin with - because she never learned to seek what she WANTS. She just jumped on your ship hoping you wouldn't steer into an iceberg, thinking that would bring what she wants eventually. She becomes a shadow or mirror of your identity rather than develop her own. 

Let her go. She has to find herself, by herself. I think it's clear your life goals aren't compatible. The jealousy is a big indication of where she is in her self-identity journey. Hint: think early stages.


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## Wontonga (Aug 22, 2016)

uhhhhh.... 

you've only been together for 1.5 years.... In my eyes, that's still pretty short of a time. Maybe you just aren't in that place yet?

Marriage isn't for everybody! She needs to have patience and understand that a marriage is not in your cards. With that, she can choose to stay or go. If she stays she can't put pressure on you, though. She needs to come off the subject. 

Hope you two figure it out.


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## Begin again (Jul 4, 2016)

Wontonga said:


> uhhhhh....
> 
> you've only been together for 1.5 years.... In my eyes, that's still pretty short of a time. Maybe you just aren't in that place yet?
> 
> ...


Please don't resurrect zombie threads.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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