# Setting new boundaries need help



## DoneIn (Aug 1, 2017)

My past is posted in my first post, but here's my present. I am working (toe in the pool) on reconciliation. My partner dove into his two sisters and 91 yr old mother for support when he was discovered for using prostitues for THREE YEARS. The Korean massage parlor type. Yes, I know - low life/low class/low character mess. He has been working diligently with a counselor etc etc. 

Says he would do anything to right has wrong as well as he can.

But he still visits his family once a week. The same family that never reached out to see if I was OK (we were together for 20 years). The same family that called me vindictive after D Day when I reached out to them for emotional support. THAT family is the same one he still goes to visit once a week (or, is he still visiting massage parlors - who knows).

So, what's your thought about divided loyalties post D Day... ? Its a complicated mess for sure.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Well, they are still his family, and that isn't going to change. Since the two of you are talking about reconciliation, are they treating you differently/better?

I'm sorry to hear that they treated you poorly during the separation, but I would keep in mind that he was venting to them and may have only told them half-truths and exaggerated other details to make himself look like the injured party in all this, and they felt they were defending or protecting him. This doesn't excuse their previous behavior, but understanding why they behaved the way that they did may help you going forward.

You can't forbid your H to see his family. But you can talk to your husband about the way that you feel about his seeing them on a weekly visit, and your concerns that this may impede your reconciliation, as they have shown that they think poorly of you, and that they may try to influence him.

I have to ask you, though... why would you reach out to HIS family for support during the split? Surely you understand that they were his family before they were yours, no matter how long you were married. While they might have some sympathy for you, given that he was cheating, their loyalty will always lie with their blood kin first.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

DoneIn said:


> So, what's your thought about divided loyalties post D Day... ?


Blood is always thicker than water.

Your husband's choice is clear. His family's choice is clear.


----------



## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

To help you with ideas to set new boundaries my suggestion is a boundary that keeps him a minimum of five miles from you.


----------



## smi11ie (Apr 21, 2016)

I thnk you should make yourself too busy to spend time with him or his family. You are better than this.


----------



## DoneIn (Aug 1, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> Well, they are still his family, and that isn't going to change. Since the two of you are talking about reconciliation, are they treating you differently/better?
> 
> I'm sorry to hear that they treated you poorly during the separation, but I would keep in mind that he was venting to them and may have only told them half-truths and exaggerated other details to make himself look like the injured party in all this, and they felt they were defending or protecting him. This doesn't excuse their previous behavior, but understanding why they behaved the way that they did may help you going forward.
> 
> ...


You post a very good question. Why did I reach out to his family? The therapist tells me that I was working from a part of my brain that kicked in due to the trauma. A part that doesn't make a lot of sense. At the beginning, I was on my belly in pain and shock. I was telling anyone who would listen what happened. It was compulsive. I also had four minor car accidents. My brain wasn't working. I lost two weeks of memory and I was not in touch with reality. That's not my MO at all but the trauma shock and stress did me in. I wanted to speak with anyone who knew us and tell them. I can tell you it wasn't the best way of handling things! I can also tell you it may have had a positive effect. By announcing his secrets "to the world" my partner had no choice but to face his own actions beliefs behaviours. No more secrets. Nothing left to do but look squarely in the mirror. From that awful position it appears he has become completely immersed in fixing his inner workings and our relationship. So, I guess my unfortunate actions had some fortunate consequences.

For those of you listening, so far the counselor has revealed that he harbored problems in our relationship that resolved ten years ago. He harbored and projected on me problems with his parents and assigned their negative inner workings and dysfunctions to me. Bad enough we have our own dysfunctions to deal with - imagine carrying your own and both of his parents all at once! It has been fascinating as he peels away what he thinks versus what is reality. His mask was so complete I didn't see how distressed and malfunctioning he was. When I would do huge acts of service for him, he would assign manipulative intentions to what were sincere acts of love. If any therapists or "smart people" are reading this, I would like the technical word for that tendency. Apparently it pervaded our relationship and I never knew. What a shock. How lonely to never be able to receive sincere support and love from your partner.


----------



## DoneIn (Aug 1, 2017)

You are so funny! Thanks for that vote of support. You see, I do not live with him. I can leave the relationship at any time as we all know and I did for several months. I went out into the world and was surprised and happy to find out, at 60, men find me quite attractive and I won't be partner-less should I leave this relationship entirely. To the contrary, I never knew this, but I would pretty much have my pick! Being the loyal type myself, I didn't look left or right for 20 years so assumed no one noticed me. Now, I know better. Its empowering.

Here's the thing. I want to learn ALL I can from this mess. I want to be so aware that I would never miss the red flags or squelch my own feelings and needs in the future. I want to know what a relationship can really be in my life, so I can go after that vision. Seems to me the best way to get from here to there is through relationship counseling with my cheating spouse. I am not afraid to learn, and painful as this has all been the best learning I can do is with him. It also helps me to see, as his layers are peeled, that he now understands who is me really, and all he projected vs. reality. Its healing to be seen for who I really am and what I was really bringing to the relationship. His pain now is knowing how badly he managed what was the best thing he ever had. My pain is knowing how little I accepted and how starved I was, but kept moving forward.

But, in my back pocket are several men waiting to date me and patiently staying in touch. Its best right now I don't drag anyone through my mess and my healing, but in the future....? Life is looking pretty good...


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

DoneIn said:


> I can leave the relationship at any time as we all know and I did for several months. I went out into the world and was surprised and happy to find out, at 60, men find me quite attractive and I won't be partner-less should I leave this relationship entirely.
> 
> But, in my back pocket are several men waiting to date me and patiently staying in touch. Its best right now I don't drag anyone through my mess and my healing, but in the future....? Life is looking pretty good...


Good post, good retort, THIS.>

All women have this to some degree.

Some at 212 Fahrenheit. Your' oven temperature.

Not enough to burn a man, enough to heat, to boil his blood.

Enough to get a man.....to keep, comes with passionate warmth.
From both ducks mutually being, basking in the oven.
Basting each other with warm gravy.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LOL! Ok. I am somewhat wicked.

Can you get some risqué pictures taken in one of those parlors?

Some fake documentation that you are employed there?

Would be priceless to see his reaction to seeing you (perceptions only) servicing men for money like the women he was serviced by.

I am a huge proponent of putting the shoe on the other foot. Or in this case, up the idiots ass!😁


----------



## NickyT (Aug 14, 2017)

DoneIn said:


> My past is posted in my first post, but here's my present. I am working (toe in the pool) on reconciliation. My partner dove into his two sisters and 91 yr old mother for support when he was discovered for using prostitues for THREE YEARS. The Korean massage parlor type. Yes, I know - low life/low class/low character mess. He has been working diligently with a counselor etc etc.
> 
> Says he would do anything to right has wrong as well as he can.
> 
> ...


Am I following your story correctly? Your husband used prostitutes for 3 years, he is seeing a counselor so you are considering reconciliation, but you are upset because he still sees his family. You are not happy with how his family has treated you and you suspect that he is actually still seeing prostitutes and lying to you about it rather than seeing his family.

Was one of the terms of the reconciliation that he never see his family again?
Was one of the terms of the reconciliation that you do not need to trust him?

It is a complicated mess because you have allowed it to be. Time to take responsibility for that. Why do you want to reconcile with a man who betrayed you in such a harsh way and who you still do not trust?

There are no divided loyalties here. You are asking you husband to forsake his family for you. You are asking him to choose between you and his family. Unless his family was complicit in his cheating or unless they did something other than not contact you when you separated, you need to re-think.

Finally, I am saying this because I too was married 20 years when we separated. My husband's family called a couple of times, but behind my back encouraged my husband to get a divorce and move on. They told him they never liked me. We reconciled after 2 years and have been married 8 since then. My husband's family are liars and sneaks and manipulators. My husband knows that, but still, he can not walk away from them. Blood is thick. 

Your problem is NOT with your husband's family. It is with your relationship with your husband.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

DoneIn said:


> ....For those of you listening, so far the counselor has revealed that *he harbored problems in our relationship that resolved ten years ago.* He harbored and *projected on me problems with his parents* and assigned their negative inner workings and dysfunctions to me. Bad enough we have our own dysfunctions to deal with - imagine carrying your own and both of his parents all at once! ......





DoneIn said:


> ....I am working (toe in the pool) on reconciliation.
> 
> *My partner dove into his two sisters and 91 yr old mother for support* when he was discovered for using prostitues for THREE YEARS. The Korean massage parlor type.
> 
> ...


I reversed the order of your posts.

As I see the problem is two fold.

First his parents (and likely sisters) are dysfunctional and supported him over you and that hurt you greatly.

Second, as dysfunctional as they are they are still his family and will always be his biological family, but as you point out if he want you to be his wife you will be his nuclear family.

You say that the two of your are working on reconciliation and he will do anything.

I think that you need to recognize that his mother and sisters will always be his family. You need to tell him that they will always be his family, but you need to talk to your "guy" and ask him what he wants in the future.

Does he want you to be his wife and his immediate family? If so then HE needs to rebuild the bridges between you and his mother and sisters. He needs to go to them and confess that he was a jerk, that he blamed you for his failings and that he needs them to love you as much as he loves you. 

It is really his problem and not yours. What makes you feel it is your problem is that he has not done that important piece of the reconciliation, which was working with his biological family who he poisoned the relationship between you and them. He created the problem, now he has to fix it. If he refuses to fix that problem then he will have to choose between them or you. Again, it is not your problem unless you want to make it your problem.

My suggestion, is if you are serious about reconciliation, lay this part of the reconciliation on him to solve. Forgive them as they probably were only told a fraction of the story and wanted to believe what he told them as opposed to what really happened. In fact, after he has worked on mending fences, tell them you would love to have them over for a holiday dinner and show them love. They will likely be afraid of you for how they have hurt you and how you might treat them. Again, if your "guy" has done what he needs to, then showing them love and forgiveness may make things much better.

Good luck.


----------



## DoneIn (Aug 1, 2017)

Amazing great advice! I love it and thank you for the input.


----------



## DoneIn (Aug 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> LOL! Ok. I am somewhat wicked.
> 
> Can you get some risqué pictures taken in one of those parlors?
> 
> ...


AAHHH sweet, sweet, sweet. But, its better to just find real men who enjoy a real woman (that would be me) and go on to live a REAL wonderful life! I wouldn't want to lower myself to that
level. Though I can imagine being swept away by a new romance (or two or three). After all, the best revenge is LIVING WELL.


----------



## DoneIn (Aug 1, 2017)

OK folks may I have your attention one more time? I have two sisters I am close to. Now that both know I am working on my relationship with "Sir John" they want nothing to do with me. They think I am making an incredible mistake and being a weak person. Maybe they are right? So many people have said "once a cheater always a cheater" and so many other probably true things. I am getting confused as to whether I am being once again a pollyana and what I really should do is completely remove myself from anything to do with him, to the extent I can. My counselor says time will tell on this -- but how much time? What do I look for?


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

DoneIn said:


> .....I have two sisters I am close to. Now that both know I am working on my relationship with "Sir John" they want nothing to do with me. They think I am making an incredible mistake and being a weak person.
> 
> .....My counselor says time will tell on this -- but how much time? What do I look for?


As to your sisters, tell them that working on the relationship with Sir John is you choice. Tell the that it may be a mistake, but that he has changed so much since he has been exposed and gone to therapy that you want to give it a chance and while they don't have to approve, you want your sisters' love.

Talk to both your counselor and your guy about time frames. 

What are you looking for? 
The rebuilding of a tiny bit of trust? Are you looking for a sign that he views you and your relationship differently? 

When you figure that out, talk to you counselor and guy to set some boundaries.

Good luck


----------



## DoneIn (Aug 1, 2017)

Thank you Young at Heart


----------



## DoneIn (Aug 1, 2017)

So tell me, its six months out and I still can have unbelievable fits of pain and outbursts. Is this normal? They are triggered by different things. Today, they were triggered by my partner for some unknown reason sharing with me that the Korean prostitues he was using were sometimes quite attractive. Why would ANYONE tell that to the partner they say they desparately wanted to keep unless they wanted to hurt them?


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

DoneIn said:


> So tell me, its six months out and I still can have unbelievable fits of pain and outbursts. Is this normal?
> 
> ...Today, they were triggered by my partner for some unknown reason sharing with me that the Korean prostitues he was using were sometimes quite attractive. Why would ANYONE tell that to the partner they say they desparately wanted to keep unless they wanted to hurt them?


You need to ask your IC or marriage/couples counselor the question on time.

You also need to become the adult in your relationship. When your guy told you that some of his "happy ending" playthings he exploited were attractive, you should have sucked it up and asked him "why he said that?" *And really demanded an honest answer. * 

If he couldn't handle providing an answer right then, tell him the two of you will discuss it at length after he has thought about it at dinner on a certain night.

Then ask him if in his mind it was an excuse for what he did? Then ask him if he is serious about reconciling your long term relationship? Then ask how such a statement could ever help in your reconciliation. Then go back to the key question. Why did he say it? (don't give him any answers, he can mindlessly say yes to.....make him answer the question and the explain his answer) 

If you don't have the courage for it have it be the topic at one or two marriage counseling sessions.

Good luck.


----------



## DoneIn (Aug 1, 2017)

Thanks for your response Young at Heart. What I actually did was have a violent reaction. I screamed at him to get out. I screamed a few obscenities, and then I broke down and sobbed for about five minutes. I felt like my heart was breaking and my entire body hurt.

This has been a repetitive theme and he seems to consistently find ways to violate me again and again. I am beginning to think somehow he likes it.

So, I am now calling it quits. Its hard after all these years. The pain of these repeat traumas of the last six months is exquisite. I have a lot to learn and hopefully it will be that I learn to stay away, far away, from cheating lying ***** mongers. They are very good at deceit so I have to learn about that as well. I also have to learn why I accepted so little in the relationship and what I benefited from that. How I contributed. It was so uncomfortable and odd in the beginning, and then after a few years I just got used to it. 

Maybe now I can create something good and kind and loving with an honest and trustworthy man.

First I have to learn all I need to know about myself to prevent this from happening ever again.

Thanks for all the input.


----------



## Bonkers (Nov 26, 2017)

DoneIn said:


> This has been a repetitive theme and he seems to consistently find ways to violate me again and again. I am beginning to think somehow he likes it.


He's either getting sadistic pleasure out of verbally torturing you and/or he's a clueless moron.

Either way he's given you every reason to leave.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

DoneIn said:


> ....
> 
> What I actually did was have a violent reaction. I screamed at him to get out. I screamed a few obscenities, and then I broke down and sobbed for about five minutes. I felt like my heart was breaking and my entire body hurt.
> 
> ...


I think you have made huge progress and come to a reasonable conclusion. Some things can't be fixed. Work on forgiving him, t is hard, but if you can, you will heal more quickly.

Yes, work on yourself. In MW Davis she talks about GAL or getting a life. It is about reinventing yourself so you bring pride and joy into your life as you become a better person. "Better" people are often more attractive and if your are different you will be attractive to a different type of person.

Also learn to be the adult in your relationships when things go wrong. Don't get positioned into an emotional reaction. Demand adult explanations.

You will find someone that is good for you. Live and embrace life. You will grieve the loss of your long term relationship, but you will come out of this a better person.

P.S. after you have improved yourself, you might want to read some Dr. David Schnarch. He talks in one of his books about marital sadism, where one partner refuses divorce as they enjoy the power of emotionally torturing their partner. 

Good Luck. Enjoy Life.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Dysfunctional families come in all flavours and all varieties.

His family offer him their support no matter what.

Your family offer you their support so long as you do exactly what they tell you to.

Neither are helping either if you, IMO.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

DoneIn said:


> You are so funny! Thanks for that vote of support. You see, I do not live with him. I can leave the relationship at any time as we all know and I did for several months. I went out into the world and was surprised and happy to find out, at 60, men find me quite attractive and I won't be partner-less should I leave this relationship entirely. To the contrary, I never knew this, but I would pretty much have my pick! Being the loyal type myself, I didn't look left or right for 20 years so assumed no one noticed me. Now, I know better. Its empowering.
> 
> Here's the thing. I want to learn ALL I can from this mess. I want to be so aware that I would never miss the red flags or squelch my own feelings and needs in the future. I want to know what a relationship can really be in my life, so I can go after that vision. Seems to me the best way to get from here to there is through relationship counseling with my cheating spouse. I am not afraid to learn, and painful as this has all been the best learning I can do is with him. It also helps me to see, as his layers are peeled, that he now understands who is me really, and all he projected vs. reality. Its healing to be seen for who I really am and what I was really bringing to the relationship. His pain now is knowing how badly he managed what was the best thing he ever had. My pain is knowing how little I accepted and how starved I was, but kept moving forward.
> 
> But, in my back pocket are several men waiting to date me and patiently staying in touch. Its best right now I don't drag anyone through my mess and my healing, but in the future....? Life is looking pretty good...


Glad to hear that you have made that decision to not be with a man with such low moral values. Make sure that any future men have integrity and good moral character. Many of the men who you say are interested in you may not have. There are a few about, but they are usually snapped up very quickly once they become available. My husband had only been on the dating site for 3 or 4 days when I snapped him up. :surprise: 

Leave it a year or two is my advise, that will give you time to heal and recover, and then see if there are any good men out there who want to date you. Remember that having men interested doesn't mean that they are right for you or that you will be compatible. Find out why they are single at that age first of all. If they are divorced then what caused it. How many divorces have they had. Have they ever cheated(maybe ask people who know them as they may lie about this).


----------

