# The skill of what women want to hear



## southbound

I've been chatting with a friend here, and she thought our topic would be good for the forum. I agreed. My basic question is, "what do women want to hear?"

Even in a small town like I live in, there are guys that people would call players. They are the guys who always have an attractive woman on their arm. 

When my x divorced me, one of these players dated her for a while. He stayed with her a while, and then moved to another attractive woman and married her.
He had a reputation for playing the field, but apparently my x didn't care. My daughter thought he was a joke, but he had my x eating out of his hand.

A female friend told me, "I'm sure he knew how to tell her what she wanted to hear." that got me to wondering, what is it that women want to hear? How is it that some men can have most any woman they want melting and dying to go out with them even if they have a bad rep? Apparently it is a skill that I never learned.

I always thought that if i dated a woman and continually did the "you're so beautiful," "you're so wonderful," type thing, they would see it as overkill and a bunch of bull. However, these guys apparently have it down to an art. So, what is it that these men do to that women find so attractive? have any of you ladies ever found yourself attracted to this type? How did he make himself so appealing?


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## Mistys dad

It's not what you say.

It's how you listen.


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## heartsbeating

There's a lot to be said for the flip-side to this coin too... and in my opinion, that's related to the sense of self of the woman who falls for the types of men you're referring to. 

As for the last sentiment in your post, if it's coming from a genuine place, I see nothing wrong with paying compliments.


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## EleGirl

Players cannot have 'most any woman they want'. They attract women, usually needy women with low self-esteem.

What most women want to “hear” is a man acting/talking in a way that is honest. A sense of humor and some flirtying helps a lot. They want the man to actually be interested in what she does, who she is, etc. 

Players knows that women want to be paid attention to… for example do not go on date and only talk about yourself. I’ve had those dates. And entire dinner at a high end restaurant where a guy goes on and on about how great, successful he is. He talks about all of his hobbies and vacations. Never once all night did the show any interest in me. Except his obvious hoping to jump in the sack that night. He never asked we what I do for a living, about my hobbies, my view on things. 

You can talk about yourself, just don’t focus on yourself all night. (I’m not suggesting that you do this. I’m using a generic “you”.)
Be real and care about her. Yes you


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## EleGirl

southbound said:


> .
> I always thought that if i dated a woman and continually did the "you're so beautiful," "you're so wonderful," type thing, they would see it as overkill and a bunch of bull. However, these guys apparently have it down to an art. So, what is it that these men do to that women find so attractive? have any of you ladies ever found yourself attracted to this type? How did he make himself so appealing?


Compliments are good… just don’t overdo them and don’t say things you do not believe. One or two on a date works. After that it becomes annoying.


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## The Renegade

Attraction triggers are unconscious. It's not so much in what you say as to how you say things. How you move your body, how you look people in the eyes, tone of voice, playfulness,...

"You're so beautiful" can come off as a genuine, non-needy statement that women really appreciate (then it's about her). It can also come off as "I'm saying that to get into your pants" or because "I want you to stick around a little longer so that my friends can see what a stallion I am", than it's about you and not interesting.

I'm not a woman, still needed to throw that in. Cheers.


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## southbound

EleGirl said:


> Players cannot have 'most any woman they want'.


That's true; I overgeneralized. Nonetheless, they still are never without an attractive woman on their arm. Apparently, they have a skill of knowing how to attract women. Each woman is different, yet they are still able to know what to say and do in each situation to keep her interested. 

I even know a guy like this in his 60s who owns a car lot. I honestly believe he's with a different woman every weekend. Unbelievable!


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## RandomDude

Having played the field before, no, even if others think we can get any girl we want - we don't, we end up with what we get; it's like fishing, tossing a big net into the sea and whatever you catch - take your pick. And if she's not attractive, then meh, but if she has at least a nice body, then I just put her on her paws and do her from behind so I don't have to see her face (hehe, sorry ladies, it's bad but just how it was back then)

Attracting and getting a woman interested is only the first step of a relationship and it's the same techniques required as sales -> you need a pitch, 'compliant handling', and able to icebreak and build rapport - cause the spark. I still remember years ago trying to get this lady's credit card details to close the sale but instead I got a date >.<!!!! Heh

Keeping a woman interested though, you just have to make her feel like she's the only one, act like a man, don't go bragging etc, make her think you are just 'misunderstood'  not a player, don't be a bore, don't complain too much, show her that you can enrich her life, and that you understand her in a way that others dont -> hence empathy/listening skills.

But everyone has different experiences as players, some people are the types who seem quiet and shy yet end up with the hottest girls in the clubs, others like me have to break the first impression that "he's goodlooking and he knows he is, he must be a player" - hence we have different games/strategy/"sales pitch"


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## RClawson

This is always a topic that interests me and one I have been (unofficially) studying for the last 25 years. It all started after I married my wife. I had an impression then that I was plan B as opposed to the "bad boy" she went out with on and off for a couple of years. 

Initially when they met she would not have anything to do with him. He was an arrogant ex con (accessory to robbery) but he was persistent. He eventually got her to go out with her and then the next thing was to get in her pants. She was from the good side of the tracks and a girl with a strong religious upbringing. She did not cave easily and he would dump her then call her when his prospects were dim I guess and she would run back (this is her version not mine) every and guess what? He finally got her to bed. 

According to her it was not that great but she continued to go back anytime he gave her a booty call. Eventually he grew tired of her and tossed her aside. She is forever pissed off that he broke it off and not her.

Understand that I did not know any of this until after I married and then I started connecting dots. I saw them one time at a dance club. He had since married but he was dancing with my wife. I did not know they had gone out but when I saw them on the dance floor I was a bit uncomfortable for his wife because they seemed a bit intimate for "just friends". 

I will not bore you with the rest of the details but I have never understood their attraction. She has always acted like it was no big deal but there has been to much evidence over the years to think otherwise. 

I remember overhearing her talk to a bunch of teenage girls and counseling them to go out with a "bad boy" and getting it out of their system. I could not help but think that there were a bunch of bad boys who should be thanking her that they were able to "get into" those girls "systems" literally. 

It never goes away I remember being at a Christmas party and a group of people were talking about the losers they dated. I asked if anyone could top going out with an ex felon. Everyone said no but my wife's walking partners countenance changed and she said with a gleam in her eye "I know who you are talking about". Nice!

There are some guys that just have it. They do not have to be great looking but it does seem the one universal quality is a$$hole. I do get it, I have never gotten it and I have given up trying to figure it out.


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## RandomDude

Not a$$hole, just not really giving a damn


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## Mavash.

I think men like that only get the needy women with low self esteem too. I was one so I should know. Yes I dated a string of bad boy player type men. Thankfully I wised up and realized while they might be fun at first they lack true staying power. Many of them are abusive too.


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## Phenix70

"What do women want to hear?"

I want to hear the truth, no BS, no lies, just the truth.
If a man is attracted to me, I want to know what exactly it is that attracted him to me. 
Looks only go so far, there has to be more to keep the attraction going.
I fell hard for my husband because he was open & honest with me, he didn't use sugary prose to sweep me off my feet.
The first time we kissed, he was shaking, he was so nervous, to me that speaks volumes & is so more appealing than the typical player antics. 
Bad boys are boring, with not much to offer, give me a good guy over a bad boy any time.


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## kag123

What do women "want to hear"?

I want to hear you be yourself, show me you are intelligent and have a brain, thoughts and feelings of your own that are not fabricated in some elabrotate scheme you've been rehearsing for weeks to get into my pants. Be sincere and confident. I want to be approached in a genuine manner, ideally where you let your guard down and ddot invest too much in trying to impress me. That's where being confident comes in. I think part of the attractiveness of what people call a "bad boy" is their take it or leave it attitude. So many guys come across as needy, requiring too much validation.

Personally though, an intelligent and self assured woman does not fall for a "player". A lot of women out there are playing the game right alongside those players and are not the innocent victims or naive girls they are made out to be. The difference is that most women do not have an ego to stroke, so their game can appear much more subtle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CLucas976

I generally will just settle for hearing something intelligent without any arrogance behind it.

I'm not too picky, i don't need to hear how amazing and wonderful I am, just don't be a douche, and don't talk out of your as$

simple right?


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## Dollystanford

don't give me platitudes, dudes
listen to what I have to say and respond to me - I'll do the same for you and then it's all good!


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## lamaga

You know what I find amazing about my H? He listens, and he remembers.

I can say something in passing, don't even think he's paying attention, and six months later he'll get me a thoughtful gift based on something I said...HE LISTENS.

that counts more than any compliment, in my book!


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## SimplyAmorous

Phenix70 said:


> "What do women want to hear?"
> 
> I want to hear the truth, no BS, no lies, just the truth.
> If a man is attracted to me, I want to know what exactly it is that attracted him to me.
> Looks only go so far, there has to be more to keep the attraction going.
> *I fell hard for my husband because he was open & honest with me, he didn't use sugary prose to sweep me off my feet*. *The first time we kissed, he was shaking, he was so nervous, to me that speaks volumes & is so more appealing than the typical player antics*.
> Bad boys are boring, with not much to offer, give me a good guy over a bad boy any time.


 I LOVE what you said about his shaking the 1st time you kissed !!! I would be so touched by something like that. Oh my! Some may not find that romantic but I would... that high emotion. 

I think near identical to you, in fact I have always went for the introverted men....I find them more sensitive/caring, less need to hang out with the guys, so faithful/loyal when they fall in love, less BS, even more depthfully open -once you get past the shyness. 

I wouldn't say Bad boys are boring though...they are known for mystery & excitement..... but generally they R very shallow in comparison....a hot roll in the hay wouldn't be enough...they may be a lightning bolt of exhileration & passion even -but generally for a season ...for the long haul, for family ....not so much. ....It wasn't a risk I would ever take in life. 

Seen too many women burned, I wanted the awkward nice guy deeply in love with me.. so when he spoke, I could trust every word that came from his mouth, his "forever" was truly "forever".


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## Phenix70

SimplyAmorous said:


> I LOVE what you said about his shaking the 1st time you kissed !!! I would be so touched by something like that. Oh my! Some may not find that romantic but I would... that high emotion.
> 
> I think near identical to you, in fact I have always went for the introverted men....I find them more sensitive/caring, less need to hang out with the guys, so faithful/loyal when they fall in love, less BS, even more depthfully open -once you get past the shyness.
> 
> I wouldn't say Bad boys are boring though...they are known for mystery & excitement..... but generally they R very shallow in comparison....a hot roll in the hay wouldn't be enough...they may be a lightning bolt of exhileration & passion even -but generally for a season ...for the long haul, for family ....not so much. ....It wasn't a risk I would ever take in life.
> 
> Seen too many women burned, I wanted the awkward nice guy deeply in love with me.. so when he spoke, I could trust every word that came from his mouth, his "forever" was truly "forever".


It was the most romantic kiss I've ever had in my life, to feel that depth of emotion was the most powerful aphrodisiac, if I could have bottled it up & saved it, I would have. 

My husband is the most sensitive PERSON I've ever met, he's even more sensitive than I am & I'm off the charts.
He does a very good job of hiding his sensitivity, but over the course of our relationship he has become more comfortable showing me his vulnerability.
BUT, don't get that confused with being "Beta" like, he is very much an "Alpha" & would never allow me or anyone else to walk all over him.
Sensitivity does NOT equal weakness. 

I like to think he's an evolved man, one who doesn't play games, who though far from perfect, does not get caught up in the typical female/male BS.


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## LovesHerMan

Anyone who falls for what they WANT to hear deserves what they get when the speaker does what THEY want to do.


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## tacoma

Mistys dad said:


> It's not what you say.
> 
> It's how you listen.



This is the truth.

A player doesn`t simply tell women what they want to hear in fact they may feel free to speak the opposite.

A player pays attention to a woman's wants, needs, desires.
Especially her unfulfilled wants, needs, desires.

A player with an interest in a woman will find out her favorite, food, band, color, everything.

After some time analyzing the woman a player will present her with exactly what she thinks she wants.

This is really pretty easy to do.


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## RandomDude

Aye, the art of seduction; simply finding out what she's about, then being that person for her

Same goes for women who wish to seduce men, same goes for folks who want to enrich the passion in marriage. The game never ends


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## arbitrator

So what would you perceive as being the primary difference between a "player" and a "bad boy" then?


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## Phenix70

arbitrator said:


> So what would you perceive as being the primary difference between a "player" and a "bad boy" then?


They are one & the same to me, no difference at all & the terms are interchangeable.


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## LovesHerMan

Phenix70 said:


> They are one & the same to me, no difference at all & the terms are interchangeable.


I would agree with this. The key element is selfishness. Both players and bad boys care only about themselves. The only interest they have in others is what they can do for them.


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## Cosmos

When I was young I used to enjoy dating players. They were fun to be with, I knew where I stood with them and there was never a danger of getting emotionally or physically involved with them, so they were 'safe.'

As for what women want to hear - I think it depends on the woman. Some women thrive on constant flattery etc, but an intelligent woman with healthy self-esteem will see it for what it is. Genuine compliments, however, are another thing altogether. We all enjoy them!


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## arbitrator

lovesherman said:


> I would agree with this. The key element is selfishness. Both players and bad boys care only about themselves. The only interest they have in others is what they can do for them.


Or quite frankly, whatever it is that they can get from that person in order to help sustain their own selfish agenda, usually at the expense of the person that they are so richly pursuing!


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## LovesHerMan

arbitrator said:


> Or quite frankly, whatever it is that they can get from them in order to help sustain their own selfish agenda!


Thanks, arbitrator, that is what I meant. You phrased it much better.


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## tacoma

Trenton said:


> I think what distinguishes a player/bad boy is actually a deep rooted fear of intimacy. Those that are attracted to them are really just looking for validation.


Which is about 80-90% of the human population.



Not bad odds for an ambitious player.


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## Feisty53

Adifferent woman on his arm every week tells me he isn't interesting enough to keep a good woman around very long. He is not someone I would find even remotely attractive.

A sincere compliment is nice, whether it be about how I look or my intelligence. I get really tired of being treated like I am stupid.
I want to hear about you, in bits at a time, If I want to know more, trust me, I will ask. 
But like it has been said over and over, listening, really listening, then REMEMBERING is something every person, man or woman craves. We all just want to be heard.


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## SimplyAmorous

Cosmos said:


> When I was young I used to enjoy dating players. They were fun to be with, I knew where I stood with them and there was never a danger of getting emotionally or physically involved with them, so they were 'safe.'


I never looked at life like this at all... to me, this wouldn't even be enjoyable....I *craved * to be "emotionally entangled" .... with all the mush, romance & sappy gush that comes with it (even the pain if it fell apart)..... those were my deepest desires, so I was ready to jump right in. I wouldn't even waste my time with a guy if I couldn't see him as a "potential" husband & loving father. 



> *Trenton said*: When I met my husband he was a "bad boy" and he was open with me about it. That was his M.O. coupled with an aloofness that made it seem as if he could take or leave anyone around him. If he was paying attention to you though, then you felt as if you and him were the only ones in the world. When we started dating he had several girls that he was stringing along. He made no apologies for it.
> 
> I sort of began the relationship thinking I wanted to break his heart as that's what I had been doing to other guys out of anger based of my own insecurities and past hurts at the time. I even knew I was doing it. Sex to me was nothing more than a chore that I would be very good at in order to manipulate the man with.


Trenton, your story is a WILD RIDE of starting out "Oh so wrong, even manipulatingly"....with that slow build to emotional connection, catching you off guard, not intended.......then it all coming together in the ...."Oh SO right "!! I love to hear how couples met & their journey to get there. Yours is simply halarious! :rofl:

Makes me think of that song Fooled Around and Fell in Love ~ Elvin Bishop  Just goes to show...it doesn't matter how we begin in a relationship... but where we evolve..... none of this defines us or our future happiness. 


Me & my husband was the complete & utter opposite of you & yours though..... I was the good girl who was pretty upfront about it (sex to me was making love & only for commitment & the deepest of emotions imaginable tied with it).....he was the quiet guy who didn't have a GF for yrs...though he was admittably very choosey or he would just as soon be alone. 

He didn't try to play himself up at all... he just offered himself...and how he felt......nothing glamous......I remember this like yesterday, as soon as I met him, every hallway encounter in school, he was  from ear to ear- standing out like a light bulb, he made himself rediculously obvious how he felt .....this was him>>>









...But he was Real..... all those things I was looking for...honest, no games, genuinely cared about me, listened to my woes, wanted to be with me, he let me know these things by his actions from day 1.... 

For us.... it was all about being who we were....the good, even the vulnerable.....we didn't hide or veil anything, but just talked about it , I may have had to dig a little on his part but he was always honest...we both had some insecurities & helped each other overcome them just being together. 

When I met him, he was noticably different... in it's own way though, I sabotaged some excitement in our relationship, cause I used to go on about how I disliked those other types of guys.... so he purposely didn't flirt too much with me! banghead:

Could kick myself for that one ... so when I wanted to start flirting like a very naughty Girl 3 yrs ago....I asked why he hasn't been doing this our whole marriage....his answer.... he reminds me what a "nun" I used to be. 

So we've had more Flirting now in midlife than ever before...been alot of fun too!


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## okeydokie

i want to know what my wife wants me to say when she asks me which pair of shoes looks best on her


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## tacoma

okeydokie said:


> i want to know what my wife wants me to say when she asks me which pair of shoes looks best on her


The pair she`s holding in her hand first.


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## Mistys dad

okeydokie said:


> i want to know what my wife wants me to say when she asks me which pair of shoes looks best on her


"Can I see each pair on you without all those clothes?"


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## arbitrator

SimplyAmorous said:


> I never looked at life like this at all... to me, this wouldn't even be enjoyable....I *craved * to be "emotionally entangled" .... with all the mush, romance & sappy gush that comes with it (even the pain if it fell apart)..... those were my deepest desires, so I was ready to jump right in. I wouldn't even waste my time with a guy if I couldn't see him as a "potential" husband & loving father.
> 
> I was the good girl who was pretty upfront about it (sex to me was making love & only for commitment & the deepest of emotions imaginable tied with it).....he was the quiet guy who didn't have a GF for yrs...though he was admittably very choosey or he would just as soon be alone.
> 
> He didn't try to play himself up at all... he just offered himself...and how he felt......nothing glamous......I remember this like yesterday, as soon as I met him, every hallway encounter in school, he was  from ear to ear- standing out like a light bulb, he made himself rediculously obvious how he felt .....this was him>>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...But he was Real..... all those things I was looking for...honest, no games, genuinely cared about me, listened to my woes, wanted to be with me, he let me know these things by his actions from day 1....
> 
> For us.... it was all about being who we were....the good, even the vulnerable.....we didn't hide or veil anything, but just talked about it , I may have had to dig a little on his part but he was always honest...we both had some insecurities & helped each other overcome them just being together.
> 
> When I met him, he was noticably different... in it's own way though, I sabotaged some excitement in our relationship, cause I used to go on about how I disliked those other types of guys.... so he purposely didn't flirt too much with me! banghead:
> 
> Could kick myself for that one ... so when I wanted to start flirting like a very naughty Girl 3 yrs ago....I asked why he hasn't been doing this our whole marriage....his answer.... he reminds me what a "nun" I used to be.
> 
> So we've had more Flirting now in midlife than ever before...been alot of fun too!




Simply: For an old windbag like me, I greatly come from the same school of thought that you do. I greatly admire you and your husband for the lives that you have chosen to lead. 

I do not like being involved in sexual situations unless there's some very real feelings present, both me for her, and her for me. That may well take time to find out, but having sex solely for the sake of a biological release is about as an empty and emotionless feeling that one could ever hope to find. But that's not saying that it is wrong~ it just isn't exactly my cup of tea!

In regard to that particular aspect of romance, I truly admire joint passion, emotion, trust, and love within the confines of a committed relationship!


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## heartsbeating

Our first date, we chatted for hours. A lunch date turned into an entire day/evening. While it was very natural conversation between us, I was very nervous, which was unlike me. On that first date, I told him in a very upfront way what I was about. Looking back I think it's because I knew I was feeling differently with him than I had with others. 

He wasn't a player but he was hardened by life. He had an edge about him but he wasn't an a-hole. He has a photo of himself that was taken before we met and his eyes/facial expression looks both slightly saddened and 'don't mess with me'. He hates that photo. It reminds him of how he felt he had to be. I took a photo of him a few months after we were dating and comparing the two photos, he looks like a completely different person. The appeal for me wasn't in his edge (although I did respect his independence and liked the accent lol), it's that we could relate in some of our experiences and understood one another.

Despite how we were together, I remained slightly guarded. In part, I was aware there was a chance he might go back to America and I didn't want to allow myself to get too emotionally attached. That time of going back presented itself (3 months into us dating) and he chose to stay. I didn't ask him to, as I felt that would be unfair. He'd already told me he was in love with me before then but still there was a part of me that wouldn't free-fall into those emotions because I feared getting hurt. He chose to stay because he didn't want to risk losing what was developing between us. I remember talking to my mom around that time, fearing that he would go back to the US and that I was falling for him. She told me he was in love with me and while he'd decided to stay, there would always be the possibility of that happening. She said she could see in his eyes how much he loves me and told me to cherish it for however long we had with one another. I'm getting side-tracked and feeling mushy.


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## RandomDude

As the old saying goes: "Don't hate the player, hate the game" 
Players are human too! I know I was



> You can't group all players together.
> Same with bad boys.
> I know of three different player types, could be more.


Precisely! Everyone has their own story


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## RandomDude

Well I wouldn't tell my daughter to stay away from such men, doing so will probably encourage her to do it...

Instead I plan to educate her in every way about the game and in the end I want her to have control over men, not the other way 'round. That way she can have a much bigger pool of men to choose from, and admist all those betas and alphas she's sure to find at least one REAL man 

Some say I may be betraying other men by revealing all my knowledge in the future... but meh, she's my daughter! LOL
In fact, I already feel sorry for her future boyfriends!


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## Anubis

What women "want to hear" and what makes them come back and spread their legs are not always the same things. 

Some things are raw and beyond the control of the higher parts of our brains. Some things we don't like to admit to ourselves.


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## arbitrator

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> If her father ever lets a guy come within five hundred yards of her. :rofl:


I've got two of the absolutely finest young men in the world for my sons; but I'll always feel remiss for not having had a daughter which would have given me that old time-honored tradition of that brash "Daddy to boyfriend" bantering and teasing. It would have totally pleased me to no end to have the opportunity to see the fear in their eyes!


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## heartsbeating

arbitrator said:


> I've got two of the absolutely finest young men in the world for my sons; but I'll always feel remiss for not having had a daughter which would have given me that old time-honored tradition of that brash "Daddy to boyfriend" bantering and teasing. It would have totally pleased me to no end to have the opportunity to see the fear in their eyes!


One of the first times H met my dad, he accidentally spilt orange juice on him :rofl: He's a quiet man with a big presence and stature and not the type to joke it off and say "don't worry about it". I can still remember the horrified look on H's face as he ran off to get napkins. Meanwhile, I was losing it laughing. 

H still brings it up randomly to my dad and I still laugh about it. H teases him "Yeah, thanks for making that whole meeting easier on me.." My dad kind of just smirks to himself.


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## MEM2020

Hearts,
This is a beautiful story about trust. About him believing he could trust you - despite his past experiences. It sounds as if home, for him, is where his true love is, not a country or a postal code. 




heartsbeating said:


> Our first date, we chatted for hours. A lunch date turned into an entire day/evening. While it was very natural conversation between us, I was very nervous, which was unlike me. On that first date, I told him in a very upfront way what I was about. Looking back I think it's because I knew I was feeling differently with him than I had with others.
> 
> He wasn't a player but he was hardened by life. He had an edge about him but he wasn't an a-hole. He has a photo of himself that was taken before we met and his eyes/facial expression looks both slightly saddened and 'don't mess with me'. He hates that photo. It reminds him of how he felt he had to be. I took a photo of him a few months after we were dating and comparing the two photos, he looks like a completely different person. The appeal for me wasn't in his edge (although I did respect his independence and liked the accent lol), it's that we could relate in some of our experiences and understood one another.
> 
> Despite how we were together, I remained slightly guarded. In part, I was aware there was a chance he might go back to America and I didn't want to allow myself to get too emotionally attached. That time of going back presented itself (3 months into us dating) and he chose to stay. I didn't ask him to, as I felt that would be unfair. He'd already told me he was in love with me before then but still there was a part of me that wouldn't free-fall into those emotions because I feared getting hurt. He chose to stay because he didn't want to risk losing what was developing between us. I remember talking to my mom around that time, fearing that he would go back to the US and that I was falling for him. She told me he was in love with me and while he'd decided to stay, there would always be the possibility of that happening. She said she could see in his eyes how much he loves me and told me to cherish it for however long we had with one another. I'm getting side-tracked and feeling mushy.


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## heartsbeating

MEM11363 said:


> Hearts,
> This is a beautiful story about trust. About him believing he could trust you - despite his past experiences. It sounds as if home, for him, is where his true love is, not a country or a postal code.


Thanks MEM. 

Along the way, I lost sight of his need to feel that trust with me. I again recognize how important it is. Thank you for your lovely words.


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## *LittleDeer*

What do women want to hear?

I want my man to talk to me with honesty and confidence, if he has no confidence in what he's saying, why would I believe anything he says?

Luckily he confidently tells me the most amazing things. I want him to flirt with me, tell me his dreams, and make me feel as if no one compares to me. 


I have never been into players, ick.


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## southbound

Well, I've tried to read through and absorb all the answers. On one hand, I don't suppose any of it was a revelation that I had never thought of. It's like when the coach of a good team is interviewed about why they are so good, and he says things like, "Well, we just moved the ball well, etc...." Okaaaaaaaaay.

I suppose the question was an attempt to find out what some aren't doing as well. I guess we all get ideas from our upbringing that molds how we are in relationships, and then there are things that shatter those ideas. 

For example, I know a guy in his early 20s who wears overalls all the time. On his facebook, he has the phrase, "There's nothing fancy about me, I'm just a plain guy." He doesn't have a high class job, and he's not a bad boy, and he's not a player; however, he hasn't been without a girlfriend since high school. He has had 3 or 4 really attractive girlfriends. If I were trying to describe ways to get dates, it certainly wouldn't be his look and actions, yet, it works for him. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy and I'm not saying there is anything wrong with him, he just doesn't fit the mold of a guy who would have girls beating down his door.

On the other hand, there are guys who are good looking, have good jobs, and are nice guys, yet they just never seem to have any luck with relationships. So I'm just trying to figure out what the key ingredient is. How much has to do with looks, personality, job, etc. Is the key something simple? Is it like leaving one spark plug out of a vehicle? Simply add that one spark plug and it runs like a top, but if one doesn't know to do that, it won't run correctly.


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## LovesHerMan

I think the key is confidence and persistence. My husband said that the homeliest guy in his college fraternity got the most dates because he was not afraid of rejection. He just kept asking girls out until he found ones that would say yes. 

If you take rejection too personally, you will not be willing to keep trying to find the right partner for you.


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## SimplyAmorous

> *lovesherman said*: If you take rejection too personally, you will not be willing to keep trying to find the right partner for you.


When my husband asked me to go with him... he accually expected me to reject him .... He told me ...his reasoning was... if he doesn't do this, someone else is going to come along & snatch me up, so he needed to just get this over with. I never knew all of that was going on under the surface. I got a good :rofl: out of that when he told me this 2 yrs ago. 

Now many on here would say my husband was an A hole cause he didn't have that confidence needed, wasn't clued into my body language ...(though I was very friendly)....but he still put himself out there. He only knew me a few days, he really rushed it -when you think about it. 

He wouldn't have died from rejection, but he is the type...once he asks ...IF he is rejected, he is *DONE*...he moves on...Never a chaser of women....in his mind....the woman has spoken...case closed. 

Good thing I said yes, or I would have had to turn around & chase him! 

Some women will give you a chance. They will recognize that you are indeed....taking a leap of faith. 

If you meet a woman who you feel is "*worth*" the risk... take that risk. At least get in her presence, start talking, ask some questions !!! Discover what you have in common. Ask to go out for a bite to eat, some ice cream....if you can get her to go that far, she is interested "enough" to keep going.


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## Deejo

The skill isn't about telling a woman what she wants to hear.

To expand on what Tacoma said, it's about listening, paying attention to what she is telling you that she wants ... what she doesn't want, and then responding accordingly.

Some attract women by demonstrating they have value, and then acting like their value is higher than the woman's ... thus the bad boy who gets church choir girl all hot and bothered.

Here is what I can tell you ... unequivocally.

If you want to meet more women, date more women, then it is in you're best interest to learn how to be more interesting, attractive, and engaging to women.

Women like bad boys because they are interesting. They like men of power and creativity because they are interesting. They like humor and confidence because it makes you interesting. At it's simplest? Interesting is attractive.

And it's something you can learn. I know this because I did it. It isn't chicanery. It isn't about being disingenuous, or a scum-bag. I've dated a fair amount.

People tend to have very poor opinions of guys that come across as players. The secrets of the best of them? You would never, ever, guess that's what they are. They don't broadcast it, they don't brag about it, they don't take advantage.

But ... guys will hate them for the fact that they see something they want, pursue it ... and get it.

They indeed are selfish. I would advise anyone who is invested in finding the relationship THEY want ... to be selfish. Selfish needn't mean callous or hurtful.

They also listen, pay attention, and consistently deliver on the things that keep their partners interested, invested, and engaged all while maintaining their own boundaries and self-interest. Their life doesn't revolve around their partner ... and they make that clear when necessary.


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## tacoma

Deejo said:


> The skill isn't about telling a woman what she wants to hear.
> 
> To expand on what Tacoma said, it's about listening, paying attention to what she is telling you that she wants ... what she doesn't want, and then responding accordingly.
> 
> Some attract women by demonstrating they have value, and then acting like their value is higher than the woman's ... thus the bad boy who gets church choir girl all hot and bothered.
> 
> Here is what I can tell you ... unequivocally.
> 
> If you want to meet more women, date more women, then it is in you're best interest to learn how to be more interesting, attractive, and engaging to women.
> 
> Women like bad boys because they are interesting. They like men of power and creativity because they are interesting. They like humor and confidence because it makes you interesting. At it's simplest? Interesting is attractive.
> 
> And it's something you can learn. I know this because I did it. It isn't chicanery. It isn't about being disingenuous, or a scum-bag. I've dated a fair amount.
> 
> People tend to have very poor opinions of guys that come across as players. The secrets of the best of them? You would never, ever, guess that's what they are. They don't broadcast it, they don't brag about it, they don't take advantage.
> 
> But ... guys will hate them for the fact that they see something they want, pursue it ... and get it.
> 
> They indeed are selfish. I would advise anyone who is invested in finding the relationship THEY want ... to be selfish. Selfish needn't mean callous or hurtful.
> 
> They also listen, pay attention, and consistently deliver on the things that keep their partners interested, invested, and engaged all while maintaining their own boundaries and self-interest. Their life doesn't revolve around their partner ... and they make that clear when necessary.


Exactly!!

Thank you for stating that so well.

I get a hard time around here when I talk about "playing" like it`s some kind of immoral crime.

I still play my wife, I think it`s part of the reason we`ve done so well through so much.


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## heartsbeating

Deejo said:


> They also listen, pay attention, and consistently deliver on the things that keep their partners interested, invested, and engaged all while maintaining their own boundaries and self-interest. Their life doesn't revolve around their partner ... and they make that clear when necessary.


And isn't this often a theme for what's needed to carry through into marriage? (except maybe the last sentence, within reason, if you know what I mean..I'm not debating whether boundaries and sense of self aren't still necessary while married, because they are.)


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## southbound

From reading through this thread, maybe it's not about what "women want to hear." It may come in the form of listening or whatever, but I see it does require a skill of knowing what women need. If all that stuff doesn't come natural to a guy, then I guess he has some work to do. Personally, I don't put down the guys who can get women, I was just curious as to how they did it.


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## heartsbeating

southbound said:


> From reading through this thread, maybe it's not about what "women want to hear." It may come in the form of listening or whatever, but I see it does require a skill of knowing what women need. If all that stuff doesn't come natural to a guy, then I guess he has some work to do. Personally, I don't put down the guys who can get women, I was just curious as to how they did it.


You must get sick of me posting this... I get sick of myself at times too, so I'll allow it if you do  But again, your focus is outwardly. I think being comfortable within yourself, having interests for yourself, knowing what you are about ...is when that 'presence' just occurs. A man that has a swagger, who has presence, is not thinking about what he needs to do or say to get the woman. He just is. It doesn't mean he doesn't consider others, it doesn't mean he's not a gentleman and all those other traits that have been listed in the Ladies Lounge before, but all those things, those behaviors, stem from a center within himself.

That's probably the appeal your friend has who wears the overalls. He has nothing to prove, he knows himself. Sure, there are social skills on top of that but I'd imagine the appeal begins with that "base" and stems out from there. But whadda I know?!

Sure, one can fake it until they make it too. Nothing wrong with that if it gives practice talking to more people, understanding yourself more, understanding others more. I don't think social skills comes naturally to anyone. We have all had to learn at some point.


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## Deejo

Smile more. Seriously. Start small. I literally started by smiling at babies when they look at you ... then you can smile at mom and dad. 

I treated almost everything as an 'engagement opportunity'. Did I want to pick up every woman I encountered? No, but if an opportunity to smile, ask a question, or engage in brief conversation presented itself, I took it.

Basically ... I practiced. Because ... one of the things I knew I wanted to do and be, was learn more about, get comfortable around, meet and date women.

In a nutshell, you have to want it, and be willing to actually do something about it. 

You can passively wait for someone to fall into your lap, or get out there and get rejected!

That's right ... get shot down. Best thing that can happen. Being ignored or blown off allows you to clearly delineate your boundaries, and manage your emotions to recognize that the person that just gave you the cold shoulder has NO control or influence whatsoever on how you feel about yourself. It's liberating once you get past the perceived terror of the outcome.

Smile says a lot about where someone is at.


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## southbound

heartsbeating said:


> You must get sick of me posting this... I get sick of myself at times too, so I'll allow it if you do  But again, your focus is outwardly. I think being comfortable within yourself, having interests for yourself, knowing what you are about ...is when that 'presence' just occurs. A man that has a swagger, who has presence, is not thinking about what he needs to do or say to get the woman. He just is. It doesn't mean he doesn't consider others, it doesn't mean he's not a gentleman and all those other traits that have been listed in the Ladies Lounge before, but all those things, those behaviors, stem from a center within himself.
> 
> That's probably the appeal your friend has who wears the overalls. He has nothing to prove, he knows himself. Sure, there are social skills on top of that but I'd imagine the appeal begins with that "base" and stems out from there. But whadda I know?!
> 
> Sure, one can fake it until they make it too. Nothing wrong with that if it gives practice talking to more people, understanding yourself more, understanding others more. I don't think social skills comes naturally to anyone. We have all had to learn at some point.


No, I don't get sick of your posts; I like all the responses I can get. The thing is, I am comfortable within myself, very comfortable. Some people even think my personality is a little intimidating(I think it's just because I'm quieter than most). The reason I'm thinking of this is because I was divorced after 18 years. Obviously I wasn't too worried about it for 18 years. But recently, I started thinking back about how the dating scene was for me back then.

The part that puzzled me was that I was good in the looks department and didn't have any weird habits. All the mature women would tell me how i wouldn't have any trouble getting girls, and the older girls at school acted as though they thought I was cute; however, I never had a lot of success at dating. I would go out with a girl a few times and she was done. It was never anything huge, she would just loose interest i suppose. Then along came my future wife who acted like she was crazy about me. Then after several years, she wanted a divorce, so I drove that in the ground. 

I was reading through the Divorce thread and people were asking if it was ok to date before the divorce was final. I thought, are you kidding me. that was a problem i didn't have to worry about. Where do all these people just fall out of the sky for some people? 

I've posted before about how I am happy being single, and I am. I'm not looking, but if I met someone and we clicked, I would give it a try, but I've been divorced for 18 months and haven't had to beat anyone off yet. I guess I jus wonder how it seems so easy for some guys.

I've probably rambled and none of this makes any sense.


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## heartsbeating

southbound said:


> I've probably rambled and none of this makes any sense.


Welcome to my world! :smthumbup:


...but it did make sense.


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## heartsbeating

southbound said:


> Where do all these people just fall out of the sky for some people?
> 
> I've posted before about how I am happy being single, and I am. I'm not looking, but if I met someone and we clicked, I would give it a try, but I've been divorced for 18 months and haven't had to beat anyone off yet. I guess I jus wonder how it seems so easy for some guys.
> 
> I've probably rambled and none of this makes any sense.


You're not looking, but..! are you open to life and meeting new people? 

People don't just fall out of the sky. Heck even making new friends, there's effort and a flow. I was in a class with another girl and we seemed to hit it off. We were talking about something related to what we were learning and I extended the offer to pick up materials on her behalf at a place I know. She offered her number so I could be in touch with details about that. I didn't make it to the place because I had the flu. Next class I saw her and explained why I hadn't been in touch. She didn't seem to care about that and instead was keen to just catch up with me. When we said our goodbyes, there was mutual "keep in touch...let me know how you go..." etc. My point is, with any kind of social interaction, if you have the desire to extend yourself to another, you have to put yourself out there in some way.


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## SimplyAmorous

> *Southbound said*: I've posted before about how I am happy being single, and I am. I'm not looking, but if I met someone and we clicked, I would give it a try, but I've been divorced for 18 months and haven't had to beat anyone off yet. I guess I jus wonder how it seems so easy for some guys.


This is in total conflict with this......



> *Deejo said*: In a nutshell, you have to want it, and be willing to actually do something about it.
> 
> You can passively wait for someone to fall into your lap, or get out there and get rejected!



YOU don't want it Southbound, you are happy being single ! Those guys , even the overall dude, who are getting the women ARE putting themselves out there, they want a woman in their life and by their actions - they are getting results.


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## southbound

SimplyAmorous said:


> YOU don't want it Southbound, you are happy being single ! Those guys , even the overall dude, who are getting the women ARE putting themselves out there, they want a woman in their life and by their actions - they are getting results.


Well, I am happy being single and I'm not putting myself out there, but I might try something if I met somebody. I have a female friend who is always mentioning fixing me up(just in general, she doesn't have a particular person in mind). I tell her I'm not interested, and she says she can't understand why women aren't showing interest. She says, "it's a small town and everybody knows your single now, I can't understand why someone isn't showing interest." I guess things have changed since I've been out of the dating scene for 20 years. I remember the days when girls would send word by someone that they were interested. Of course, they lost interest after a couple of dates, but, oh well.:rofl:


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## heartsbeating

So you're not used to approaching... but rather expecting to sit back and be approached? 

As for losing interest after a couple of dates. So what? Re-read what deejo wrote about how being blown off doesn't affect your center (but he said it better, scroll back up).


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## Entropy3000

RClawson said:


> This is always a topic that interests me and one I have been (unofficially) studying for the last 25 years. It all started after I married my wife. I had an impression then that I was plan B as opposed to the "bad boy" she went out with on and off for a couple of years.
> 
> Initially when they met she would not have anything to do with him. He was an arrogant ex con (accessory to robbery) but he was persistent. He eventually got her to go out with her and then the next thing was to get in her pants. She was from the good side of the tracks and a girl with a strong religious upbringing. She did not cave easily and he would dump her then call her when his prospects were dim I guess and she would run back (this is her version not mine) every and guess what? He finally got her to bed.
> 
> According to her it was not that great but she continued to go back anytime he gave her a booty call. Eventually he grew tired of her and tossed her aside. She is forever pissed off that he broke it off and not her.
> 
> Understand that I did not know any of this until after I married and then I started connecting dots. I saw them one time at a dance club. He had since married but he was dancing with my wife. I did not know they had gone out but when I saw them on the dance floor I was a bit uncomfortable for his wife because they seemed a bit intimate for "just friends".
> 
> I will not bore you with the rest of the details but I have never understood their attraction. She has always acted like it was no big deal but there has been to much evidence over the years to think otherwise.
> 
> I remember overhearing her talk to a bunch of teenage girls and counseling them to go out with a "bad boy" and getting it out of their system. I could not help but think that there were a bunch of bad boys who should be thanking her that they were able to "get into" those girls "systems" literally.
> 
> It never goes away I remember being at a Christmas party and a group of people were talking about the losers they dated. I asked if anyone could top going out with an ex felon. Everyone said no but my wife's walking partners countenance changed and she said with a gleam in her eye "I know who you are talking about". Nice!
> 
> There are some guys that just have it. They do not have to be great looking but it does seem the one universal quality is a$$hole. I do get it, I have never gotten it and I have given up trying to figure it out.


And yet men get critisized for not settling for those type of women. If you say that it matters then you get beat up and told that the past is the past. That it does not matter that you were not the first choice but the safe plan B. LOL. Right.

That said, I probably was the bad boy. I was just ready for something else.


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## Entropy3000

kag123 said:


> What do women "want to hear"?
> 
> I want to hear you be yourself, show me you are intelligent and have a brain, thoughts and feelings of your own that are not fabricated in some elabrotate scheme you've been rehearsing for weeks to get into my pants. Be sincere and confident. I want to be approached in a genuine manner, ideally where you let your guard down and ddot invest too much in trying to impress me. That's where being confident comes in. I think part of the attractiveness of what people call a "bad boy" is their take it or leave it attitude. So many guys come across as needy, requiring too much validation.
> 
> Personally though, an intelligent and self assured woman does not fall for a "player". *A lot of women out there are playing the game right alongside those players and are not the innocent victims or naive girls they are made out to be.* The difference is that most women do not have an ego to stroke, so their game can appear much more subtle.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

To hook a woman, first show interest but not sexually. If you want her attention, say something edgy to challenge her and if she challenges back or responds in a way that shows you she knows she's been challenged, and is game for it stay the course. Next show attention something physical but let it end there. Next step is to wait. Then show platonic concern. After that start talking with the compliments and information gathering/questions. Back and forth chit chat. This all takes a few weeks. Once you have your foot in the door, you're in. You can call the shots. But look out. Some women will knowingly engage in this game, and expect you to accept the same constraints/limitations/rules as you want them to accept. The 'good girl' you catch might be cut from the same cloth as you, just better at camo, and having established the rules you can't very well change them, so if you proceed you might have to see her out playing the field as well, and right under your nose, deliberately. In her mind if it's fun and games for you, it's gonna be fun and games for her too. No guilt, no hard feelings, just plain fun. LOL.

If you're serious about a relationship, proceed as though you would a friendship. Then at some point you will be able to talk rationally about attraction, and if there's rejection as your friend she's not going to hurt you, she's just going to be honest. Making friends is never a bad thing. I have lots of guy friends. Any one of them might be relationship material but honestly, it will take a year or even more to figure out. I like to see people in a variety of situations and talk to them about many things before deciding if they are a keeper. Having learned my lessons. I really cherish male friendship I would not date to marry. I would choose a mate from among true friends. For me, dating is fun. Friendship includes dates, but it's different, more serious even though it can seem casual there is a lot going on. People can change in a relationship, and honestly it's how you grow together as friends that would set the stage for how things would go in a committed intimate relationship. Maybe this is a factor of age.


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## southbound

heartsbeating said:


> So you're not used to approaching... but rather expecting to sit back and be approached?
> 
> As for losing interest after a couple of dates. So what? Re-read what deejo wrote about how being blown off doesn't affect your center (but he said it better, scroll back up).


Actually, I'm not used to anything. I was married for 18 years, so I guess I would be rusty regardless of who approached.

My x wife, however, approached and pursued me, so being approached was my last experience with dating.


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## heartsbeating

southbound said:


> Actually, I'm not used to anything. I was married for 18 years, so I guess I would be rusty regardless of who approached.
> 
> My x wife, however, approached and pursued me, so being approached was my last experience with dating.


If you want anything to change... then you will need to put yourself out there. Maybe you don't want anything to change, that's fine too. I hope you didn't interpret my words as being flippant. Tone is often up to the reader but when I read it back I feared it could have been taken that way. I think the guys have given you some good perspectives here as well as SA, who demonstrated the differences in your posts to Deejo - with the different mind sets and the different outcomes.


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## southbound

*Dean* said:


> If you really loved your x, it may take a long long time before your ready again.
> Depending on your age, you may never completely get over it.
> 
> When your ready and if your style stays the same as up above,
> the pool of available women that would approach and pursue a man is a lot smaller.
> My gut also tells me that out of this smaller pool of women that a good percentage
> of them would get bored if the man their fell in love with was always a home body.
> Because they have the approach and pursue built into their DNA.
> I wouldn't think they could be happy long term no matter how much they may love that man.
> That need to get out and do something would win long term.


That's an issue concerning the home body thing. I feel like I can't be myself and be attractive to a lot of women. Goodness knows, everyone today wants to be on the go all the time.

I guess i just absorbed how i was raised. I was raised in a rural area and we were just common folks. My dad worked, my mom stayed home, and during the summer, I roamed the woods with my friend, rode bicycles, etc. We didn't have boats, campers, or spend weekends at the lake. Our little trips in the summer wouldn't exactly qualify as a vacation by today's standards. And the thing is, we were happy! As I look back, I had a very wonderful childhood.

I guess when people grow up they either go with how they were raised or break out and do differently. I guess I just stayed with how I was raised. I can go along with activities. If someone called and said, "Hey, would you like you join us at the lake?" I would probably go, but I just don't have the burning desire to plan those things myself, it's just not something that interests me very much.


----------



## Deejo

southbound said:


> ... it's just not something that interests me very much.


Therein lies the crux of the matter. What does interest you?

That is what you focus on ... even if what interests you are solo activities.

Passion is important. Passion for, or about something. Doesn't matter if it's the collected works of the French Impressionists, stamp collecting, wood-working, or volunteering for your church.

I fully recognize that one of the most common catch-phrases you can come across, is "Be who you are." "Don't try to change." "Someone will like you for who you are."

And frankly? I no longer subscribe to that train of thought at all.

Personally, I see it as an excuse to avoid changing one's circumstances. It's safe. It's comfortable. And if you are OK with that ... then there is indeed no need to adjust.

But ... if you aren't getting what you need or want from your life and your relationships ... and being who you are isn't cutting it ... then you need to be prepared and willing to try something new.

If you are comfortable with yourself Southbound, then I wouldn't push you to do or change a blessed thing. But if you know there are things you would like to test-drive, or experience in your life ... then I would encourage you to do what you need to do, to go out and get them.


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## SimplyAmorous

southbound said:


> That's an issue concerning the home body thing. I feel like I can't be myself and be attractive to a lot of women. Goodness knows, everyone today wants to be on the go all the time.


 I don't think EVERYONE is on the go, maybe it just seems that way -I bet alot is just hustling around chasing kids activities (this is probably why we get out the most).... There are women to be found who enjoy hanging out at home, watching movies, doing their home garden, taking great pride in their house & things like that, who may not thrive on the hustle & bustle.

Here is an article >>> "But I Don't WANT to Go Out Tonight..." | datingish

Me & mine are both admitted Home Bodys..... I went out with Mr Excitment in my youth, had people jumping to slap his hand when he entered the bar, carousing all over the place... he wasn't for me. 

I do think people are geared one way or the other though... Best to marry what you are, then you can joke about being boring together. 

I'd rather be with someone who gets re-charged by spending time just hanging out on a swing talking about LIFE, watching the kids play nearby, cuddling up watching a movie together, walk outside to view a moonlight, get some needed work done ourselves, go pick berries in the backyard or lay around under a tree sharing a book together. 

We don't have a boat, motorcyle, never joined a gym, don't go to bars, we'd probably be boring to many...we enjoy more Nature activities that only cost the gas to get us there ....like hiking, biking, swimming at the nearby State park and taking a picnic. Sometimes it's just the simple things....












> *Southbound said*: I've posted before about how I am happy being single, and I am. I'm not looking.


Beings you are in a small town where everyone knows each other's business, word has gotten around you feel this way...you know women gossip...some things are like Death & taxes! If she hears a man is available BUT he is not looking, but in fact HAPPY being single...well that is just a downer ... why would she approach him....... best to go where the fish want to bite! Noone wants to put themselves out there for a 95% chance rejection. Consider the next time your lady friend wants to hook you up...do a 180- surprise her, be daring and take her up on it..... If she asks again. 



> *Southbound said*: I guess i just absorbed how i was raised. I was raised in a rural area and we were just common folks. My dad worked, my mom stayed home, and during the summer, I roamed the woods with my friend, rode bicycles, etc. We didn't have boats, campers, or spend weekends at the lake. Our little trips in the summer wouldn't exactly qualify as a vacation by today's standards. And the thing is, we were happy! As I look back, I had a very wonderful childhood.


 My childhood was so very similar....add swimming in a nearby stripmine, filling the bed of a Chevy with a bunch of friends to a Big amusement park once a year, some Firehall Rock concerts and Fairs....that was our excitement. Great memories. 



> *Deejo said*: Passion is important. Passion for, or about something. Doesn't matter if it's the collected works of the French Impressionists, stamp collecting, wood-working, or volunteering for your church.


Yes -- this is so true!!







.... women will be entertained by a man showing Passion for his work, his dreams.....I think we all do....this perks our interest for sure. Anytime you run into someone who Loves what they do, what they set their hands, hearts, minds to.....they will talk & share with high enthusiam about it (they can't help it !).....with that sparkle in their eyes, you may even get inspired just listening to them...

I think of our Contractor.... nice older man, our last house project.... he wanted to share his new found Passion with us.....I swear he came off as though he found his destiny or something... he whipped out this notebook he carrys around in his truck...full of photos...he joined a group who travels around and does Civil War Reanactments, he plays General Lee...really gets into it, encouraged us to come sometime, we learned alot about General Lee as he was putting on some doors for us. He was filled with Passion. Funny we ran into him at a Fair a year later all decked out as General Lee. 

Being a home body doesn't minus passion in one's life either...

I feel I have many passions...one I will mention is...I may not care to go out & party hardy/dancing it up, but I love hosting Large parties at our house for teens /youth groups....filling our yard with people, food, activity....giving our kids & their friends memories for a lifetime, building those connections.... That is connected to loving being a Mom. My husband's Passion I swear is wrapped up in me & the kids.. but I am not complaining about that! He has some other hobbies that are not mine. And some of mine are not his. 

What is your passion Southbound? What excites you?? What are you good at and enjoy with your whole heart? Or want to be good at and R determined to master ?

One of my favorite quotes here:


----------



## AFEH

southbound said:


> Well, I am happy being single and I'm not putting myself out there, but I might try something if I met somebody. I have a female friend who is always mentioning fixing me up(just in general, she doesn't have a particular person in mind). I tell her I'm not interested, and she says she can't understand why women aren't showing interest. She says, "it's a small town and everybody knows your single now, I can't understand why someone isn't showing interest." I guess things have changed since I've been out of the dating scene for 20 years. I remember the days when girls would send word by someone that they were interested. Of course, they lost interest after a couple of dates, but, oh well.:rofl:


I wonder how aware you are of your body language? For example do you not know that pointing the souls of your feet at people is considered at the least rude up to damn right insulting in some societies. It typically communicates an f you type attitude.


If you are doing it subconsciously, which I guess you are maybe you have other subconscious body language that keeps the women away from you.


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## SimplyAmorous

AFEH said:


> I wonder how aware you are of your body language? For example do you not know that pointing the souls of your feet at people is considered at the least rude up to damn right insulting in some societies. *It typically communicates an f you type attitude.*
> 
> If you are doing it subconsciously, which I guess you are maybe you have other subconscious body language that keeps the women away from you.


WOW, that's a little rough!! Lay it on the line there AFEH ! 

But he DID say others feel *intimidated* by him...he has been told this....so one must wonder why this is. I am not sure quietness alone is enough. My husband is very quiet... but always smiling.... many people approach him and feel very comfortable talking to him. Sometimes I have to go rescue him even. 

I never care to engage with anyone who can't , show some pleasantness, I get a bad vibe... even women, if they can't crack a happy looking face when looking at others...and appear approachable....I would just as soon pass them by, ignore they are in the room even, let them hang with their click if they have one. 

There is a lady at our church like this, my husband started calling her "StoneFace" (just between us ...well our kids too-hope they never let that out of the bag) -cause our youngest son was near terrified of her for a time..


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## southbound

Speaking of being "passionate" about something, people have mentioned that a lot in the time I have been on this board, and it's been mentioned several times in this thread. Before coming to this forum, I honestly had "never" heard that mentioned as a point of attraction. That is totally a new one on me.

It seems to me that if two people don't share the same passion, it can be a point of annoyance. Although we didn't use the word "passionate" when i was a kid, I would have to say my dad was passionate about being outside in nature and doing things on the farm. If anything, I think it annoyed my mom more than anything.

As for me, I suppose my passion is classical country and rock music. I know that everyone likes music, but I like music history too. I usually know a lot of trivia behind songs, artists, etc, and I loved talking about them. When a niece got married once, they were trying to remember some country songs for the wedding, and guess who they called. I could probably pick any familiar artist and give you all their song releases in order and how high they got on the charts just off the top of my head. I used to talk with her family about it. My wife knew I loved that kind of thing, but i think it eventually annoyed her more than anything.

I also have a rep as being a good closet singer. I like gathering around with a group of guitar players and singing. I performed in front of our school once with a live band and the crowd loooved it. The band leader told me I got more applause than him and he had been doing it for 20 years; however, when people would talk to my wife about how good it was, she acted like it annoyed her.


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## AFEH

SimplyAmorous said:


> WOW, that's a little rough!! Lay it on the line there AFEH !
> 
> But he DID say others feel *intimidated* by him...he has been told this....so one must wonder why this is. I am not sure quietness alone is enough. My husband is very quiet... but always smiling.... many people approach him and feel very comfortable talking to him. Sometimes I have to go rescue him even.
> 
> I never care to engage with anyone who can't , show some pleasantness, I get a bad vibe... even women, if they can't crack a happy looking face when looking at others...and appear approachable....I would just as soon pass them by, ignore they are in the room even, let them hang with their click if they have one.
> 
> There is a lady at our church like this, my husband started calling her "StoneFace" (just between us ...well our kids too-hope they never let that out of the bag) -cause our youngest son was near terrified of her for a time..


Well I guess there may be some women who are attracted to a man who has a superior, p off and ultra critical attitude who is totally unprepared to take any risk whatsoever to ask them out and do some romancing and courtship.

If I remember correctly it was his XW who did all the chasing. Seems like he’s just laying back waiting for the exact same thing to happen all over again! But it will take more or less the exact same version of a woman as his ex wife to do that!

He’s even repeating the same patterns of behaviour (or non behaviour) that happened at school! We’re supposed to learn from our mistakes, not to continuously repeat them throughout our lifetime.


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## WillK

I think I'd like to offer my opinion.. I only read the first page and last page of comments, so I apologize if there's any repeat info.

There's a fundamental flaw in the premise of asking what women want to hear. The words that come out of a woman's mouth or get typed by their fingers are not to be relied upon - as much as they might be saying their honest feeling in response, there's more to it and a certain amount of mystery they leave just because they'd more enjoy getting what they want if men didn't have to be told out-right.

It's not what you say, that matters very little, it's how you say it. "What do you want" will get a default answer along the lines of, at best, "I don't know" and at worst "nothing." You may think you're saying "I'll do whatever you want." But they're hearing "You don't matter enough to me to already know what I want."

Women want someone desirable, and if you have something about you that women desire all you have to do is invite them to join in to the enjoyment of it. "I'm going to go get a coffee, would you like to join me?" is pretty likely to get a default answer of yes unless you're asking a woman who is repulsed by coffee.

And THEN don't only depend on whether she answers yes or no. Because often, women just don't answer yes/no questions with yes or no - and even if they do, no does not mean no in the simple literal sense that we men understand it. This is where you need to read body language and facial expression, because you aren't just offering a cup of coffee, you're offerring time with you and they might not have time for the cup of coffee, but a no said with a smile and posturing to up her attractiveness might be saying yes to you, and if you miss that cue then you'll come across as someone that won't listen to them - and you walk away worse off than when you initiated the conversation.


I figured a lot of this out recently, and I only use this knowledge on my wife - but it has worked very well, and it seems to give me a way out of misreading her responses as I used to.. If I ask her something and she declines, but she giggles - then I know that she still liked something about the request, and instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, I can appreciate her for the part she did like or try to pursue that with a smile on my face.


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## Halien

There are a lot of good comments in this thread. Makes me think about how different I would probably be if I were ever single again. I was pretty superficial when it came to relationships after breaking up with a high school sweetheart, and my friends picked on me for being with a different date every week. Now, I would find the whole idea of what you are facing to be really daunting.

When you talk in the OP about complimenting women, I think that there is an element that doesn't often come natural to many men. Others talk about being confident, and some talk about being passionate. I think that many men would find it hard to admit that they fear opening themself up to women that we don't know really well. They fear being laughed at, or to be thought immature, or that she won't like what she sees. I'd challenge you not to be afraid to let a woman see how being with her really makes you feel. THAT is the greatest compliment, I believe. For her to see that you are a strong person, yet vulnerable to her in so many ways is a real compliment, if it is genuine.


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## WillK

I'm proud of how much my wife and I are in love now.



> I always thought that if i dated a woman and continually did the "you're so beautiful," "you're so wonderful," type thing, they would see it as overkill and a bunch of bull.


I seem to have figured out how to do this now because my wife responds. It involves reacting to her. Here's some examples from my texting to my wife.

I mentioned in another thread she texted me first today and started with "love u" to which I responded "You give me a feeling like I can't help but think 'it's good to be the king.'"

See what I did? I acknowledged her and complimented her for what she does for me. She was thanking me. I take charge now because I've recognized her need for me to do so. And she expresses appreciation for it. And I thank her for that expression.

My next texts referenced how because she's a redhead I think that makes her the Ferrari among women.

"You know how we say ppl that get Ferraris are compensating for something."
"It's because something as desirable as a Ferrari is a bit intimidating."
"(You know I'm talking about you, right?)"

She liked that. It was my flirtacious way of working in a bit of continuing an ED discussion I was having with her before I left for work.


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## southbound

southbound said:


> Speaking of being "passionate" about something, people have mentioned that a lot in the time I have been on this board, and it's been mentioned several times in this thread. Before coming to this forum, I honestly had "never" heard that mentioned as a point of attraction. That is totally a new one on me.
> 
> It seems to me that if two people don't share the same passion, it can be a point of annoyance. Although we didn't use the word "passionate" when i was a kid, I would have to say my dad was passionate about being outside in nature and doing things on the farm. If anything, I think it annoyed my mom more than anything.
> 
> As for me, I suppose my passion is classical country and rock music. I know that everyone likes music, but I like music history too. I usually know a lot of trivia behind songs, artists, etc, and I loved talking about them. When a niece got married once, they were trying to remember some country songs for the wedding, and guess who they called. I could probably pick any familiar artist and give you all their song releases in order and how high they got on the charts just off the top of my head. I used to talk with her family about it. My wife knew I loved that kind of thing, but i think it eventually annoyed her more than anything.
> 
> I also have a rep as being a good closet singer. I like gathering around with a group of guitar players and singing. I performed in front of our school once with a live band and the crowd loooved it. The band leader told me I got more applause than him and he had been doing it for 20 years; however, when people would talk to my wife about how good it was, she acted like it annoyed her.


Could someone expand a little more on having a "passion" for something being attractive. Like I said, that is a brand new one on me; I had never heard that before, but apparently it has some merit because it's mentioned a lot in this forum. 

As I said, I've observed that if two don't share a passion, it can just be annoying to the other person. Don't get me wrong, I understand that extreme other end would be being a lazy slob who didn't work and watched tv all day; I understand that not being attractive. But if a person is otherwise normal, why would them being passionate about something other than their spouse be particularly attractive.


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## WillK

southbound said:


> Could someone expand a little more on having a "passion" for something being attractive. Like I said, that is a brand new one on me; I had never heard that before, but apparently it has some merit because it's mentioned a lot in this forum.
> 
> As I said, I've observed that if two don't share a passion, it can just be annoying to the other person. Don't get me wrong, I understand that extreme other end would be being a lazy slob who didn't work and watched tv all day; I understand that not being attractive. But if a person is otherwise normal, why would them being passionate about something other than their spouse be particularly attractive.


Actually, I can give an example. Yesterday evening, I was conducting one of the phone interviews I scheduled with candidates for a babysitter position. This particular candidate was a 19 year old girl who is going to college studying music therapy or something. 

At first I asked some stock questions about her experience as a babysitter, how she would handle some of the challenges of two children with very different interests and personallity trying to compete for the attention of one babysitter. She was dull as heck. I was about to let her go, then I decided to ask about her college course of study. She just perked up instantly, talked about being a camp counselor at a summer camp for kids with autism or something and conducting music therapy.

The change in liveliness of the discussion affected my impression of her as a candidate. The first dull part made me think no way. After talking about the music therapy and hearing her enthusiasm, on a practical level it doesn't make a big difference, but if that was something incorporated into babysitting then I'd give her serious consideration.

In reality, this particular candidate is already crowded out by other better candidates who fit what we're looking for, but it serves to illustrate what I think you're asking about how passion for something creates attraction.


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## nader

just be careful or you'll get "you're just telling me what I want to hear!"

I've found it doesn't really matter what I tell my wife; only how I act.


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## heartsbeating

What is attractive about having a passion?

Good question. I think it makes someone interesting. It gives them a joy of life. It's something meaningful to that person. Having a passion exudes from the individual and that pleasure is felt by others. 

I mentioned passion in this thread following a comment deejo made about a woman that went on a date with someone who talked about Dr Who (my dream date if I wasn't married lol). http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/34108-playing-games-vs-behavior-modification.html

Passions don't _need_ to align to work as a couple. But it might help in determining if there are some common interests or themes. Even if there's not though, it's more fun to be around someone who speaks or expresses passionately about something. Social skills do need to come into play, as with any interaction, but still... I think there's something to be said for the way a person's demeanor can change when sharing of their passion.


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## Deejo

heartsbeating said:


> I mentioned passion in this thread following a comment deejo made about a woman that went on a date with someone who talked about Dr Who (my dream date if I wasn't married lol). http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/34108-playing-games-vs-behavior-modification.html


Wow, good memory HB. That was a fun thread. And I still say anyone afraid of Dahleks is a loon ... and you will be pleased to know that I DID have a subsequent date where we talked about Dr. Who. She had a fantasy about being in the tardis ... well ... you know ...

I am well versed in obscure minutia. Makes me interesting ...

No doubt that SB could use his in depth knowledge of music to strike up an interesting conversation just about anytime, anywhere.


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## heartsbeating

Deejo said:


> Wow, good memory HB. That was a fun thread. And I still say anyone afraid of Dahleks is a loon ... and you will be pleased to know that I DID have a subsequent date where we talked about Dr. Who. She had a fantasy about being in the tardis ... well ... you know ...
> 
> I am well versed in obscure minutia. Makes me interesting ...
> 
> No doubt that SB could use his in depth knowledge of music to strike up an interesting conversation just about anytime, anywhere.


....yes...I DO know...:smthumbup:


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## seesah

southbound said:


> I've been chatting with a friend here, and she thought our topic would be good for the forum. I agreed. My basic question is, "what do women want to hear?"
> 
> Even in a small town like I live in, there are guys that people would call players. They are the guys who always have an attractive woman on their arm.
> 
> When my x divorced me, one of these players dated her for a while. He stayed with her a while, and then moved to another attractive woman and married her.
> He had a reputation for playing the field, but apparently my x didn't care. My daughter thought he was a joke, but he had my x eating out of his hand.
> 
> A female friend told me, "I'm sure he knew how to tell her what she wanted to hear." that got me to wondering, what is it that women want to hear? How is it that some men can have most any woman they want melting and dying to go out with them even if they have a bad rep? Apparently it is a skill that I never learned.
> 
> I always thought that if i dated a woman and continually did the "you're so beautiful," "you're so wonderful," type thing, they would see it as overkill and a bunch of bull. However, these guys apparently have it down to an art. So, what is it that these men do to that women find so attractive? have any of you ladies ever found yourself attracted to this type? How did he make himself so appealing?


Women are fixers. From my experience, I have dated a**holes because I thought I could somehow fix them. It wasn't a conscious decision. So, it's not all about saying the right thing even though guys like that tend to be experts at reading women and knowing what they want to hear.

My husband used to be a player "back in the day" and he has told me how easily he and his best friend could get any girl they wanted in the bar, even if they were married. I think it had more to do with her self-esteem than it had to do with him saying the right thing.

As for me, I would rather talk to a guy who can be himself and who is interested in who I am. However, because I'm in my mid-twenties, I pretty much assume that every guy that wants to talk to me only has one thing in mind....


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## seesah

heartsbeating said:


> You must get sick of me posting this... I get sick of myself at times too, so I'll allow it if you do  But again, your focus is outwardly. I think being comfortable within yourself, having interests for yourself, knowing what you are about ...is when that 'presence' just occurs. A man that has a swagger, who has presence, is not thinking about what he needs to do or say to get the woman. He just is. It doesn't mean he doesn't consider others, it doesn't mean he's not a gentleman and all those other traits that have been listed in the Ladies Lounge before, but all those things, those behaviors, stem from a center within himself.


This is EXACTLY what attracted me to my husband. He doesn't give a rat's behind what people think about him. He has learned to be so comfortable in his own skin and he exudes confidence because of it. In fact, he attracts everyone because of his confidence. We had 26 people in our wedding party, 16 of those were his close friends and he even had trouble cutting down the list. 

When I first met my husband I had been helping a friend of mine move into her boyfriend's apartment. My husband was my friend's boyfriend's boss and also his teammate on a semi-pro football team. My husband was picking up my friend's boyfriend to go to football practice and he was such a goofball. He was wearing running pants over basketball shorts (it was winter) and he pulled down the running pants and "mooned" his buddies. At first, it wasn't enough for me to be head over heels and he wasn't doing it to attract me, he was doing it because that's just who he is. My husband has never been anything different than who I first met. He doesn't feel the need to prove anything to anyone and that draws people to him.

So maybe that's what it's all about. Just be yourself and be comfortable with yourself. 

Now I'm feeling all sappy.


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## Enchantment

southbound said:


> I always thought that if i dated a woman and continually did the "you're so beautiful," "you're so wonderful," type thing, they would see it as overkill and a bunch of bull. However, these guys apparently have it down to an art. So, what is it that these men do to that women find so attractive? have any of you ladies ever found yourself attracted to this type? How did he make himself so appealing?


Haven't read through all of the replies, southbound...someone might have already said this.

But, to me ... it's not what he says, as much as it's how he makes her feel...and he can make her feel like a million bucks without very many words or even flashy compliments just by the simple fact that he pursues her exclusively and makes her feel like she is the only desirable woman in his viewpoint by focusing for a period of time exclusively on her...that attention doesn't need to be verbal.


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## WillK

Enchantment said:


> But, to me ... it's not what he says, as much as it's how he makes her feel...and he can make her feel like a million bucks without very many words or even flashy compliments just by the simple fact that he pursues her exclusively and makes her feel like she is the only desirable woman in his viewpoint by focusing for a period of time exclusively on her...that attention doesn't need to be verbal.


Somehow this made me think of the lyrics to a song by Paula Cole..

FEELIN LOVE LYRICS - PAULA COLE


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## DianaHSlater

lovesherman said:


> I think the key is confidence and persistence. My husband said that the homeliest guy in his college fraternity got the most dates because he was not afraid of rejection. He just kept asking girls out until he found ones that would say yes.
> 
> If you take rejection too personally, you will not be willing to keep trying to find the right partner for you.


i agree


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