# Sick And Tired Of Being Married - But Stuck



## ElCanario

I have been married to my wife for 24 years, and deep down I want to stay that way. But it seems as if that is impossible. We live in a state of low- to medium-level tension and have done so pretty much the entire time we have been married. We are not compatible in the least and have had some really nasty fights. I do also believe, deep down, that at least from a selfish perspective we would both be better off not being married to each other. But we have kids, and I told my boys that I would never leave them, and I am not interested in part-time parenting. I grew up without a father and refuse to do that to my children. I also know that the financial and spiritual toll of a hard-fought breakup will be a horrible experience and I don't want to put anyone through that. I have also said before that I am afraid of being alone and that I would have serious problems finding someone to love and love me, or to even date.

There is so, so much more I could write, but I don't think I have it in me. Just like I don't have it in me to file for divorce.


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## thunderstruck

I can relate. How old are your kids?


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## ElCanario

thunderstruck said:


> I can relate. How old are your kids?


12 and 16. Not babies anymore, but they still need parents..........and I need them.


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## thunderstruck

Check with a lawyer. At those ages, the court would listen to their input on where they want to live. You may be able to get primary custody. 

Is your plan now to stay with her forever, or until the youngest hits college?


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## ElCanario

thunderstruck said:


> Check with a lawyer. At those ages, the court would listen to their input on where they want to live. You may be able to get primary custody.
> 
> Is your plan now to stay with her forever, or until the youngest hits college?


Right now it's until the youngest hits college, but the thought of staying with her that long still gives me agony........as does the thought of divorce. 

I have checked with lawyers, who say that custody is a crapshoot. The laws say 50-50, but in actuality for fathers 50-50 means a hefty child support bill and two weekends a month plus Wednesday nights. I'm not accepting that screwed-up deal.


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## cdbaker

You're right about the "fathers deal" when it comes to divorcing with kids.

I've gotta ask, how has she responded when you have shared these concerns with her? Does she think everything is perfectly fine the way it is and is unwilling to change anything? Is she open to making some changes or going to MC? Does she have any concerns?


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## ElCanario

cdbaker said:


> You're right about the "fathers deal" when it comes to divorcing with kids.
> 
> I've gotta ask, how has she responded when you have shared these concerns with her? Does she think everything is perfectly fine the way it is and is unwilling to change anything? Is she open to making some changes or going to MC? Does she have any concerns?


Basically, she hates me and wants to divorce. She does not want counseling. She is as miserable as I am and treats me with a mixture of sullen indifference and outright contempt. But she's as reluctant to really go through with things as I am because it will be financially complicated and ugly and contentious.


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## firefairy

I feel your pain as financial fear has kept me in place for many years. But I FINALLY came to a realization that I WILL figure it out. I WILL survive for my kids. If i have to sell stuff.. get a second job.. cut back on expenses.. Whatever it may be.. I will figure it out and survive for my kids. When theres a will there is a way!!


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## Keepin-my-head-up

If you both hate each other, is there any chance you can talk with her and come up with a plan that both of you agree with?

A plan concerning custody and the like.
If you both want to divorce, maybe you 2 can work it out to make it as cheap and quick as possible.


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## 3Xnocharm

I hate to say this, but the two of you have done your kids no favors by staying together feeling the way you do about each other. Just because your household is together, doesnt make it a healthy environment.


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## turnera

Have you read HNHN yet? Done the questionnaires?


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## LongWalk

ElCan,

Obviously there is a lot to your story that you have not told, but the fact that you hate each other is a lot better than feeling indifference. With hate you have some strong emotion to work with. 

Since you are at bottom in many respects, you can try and channel the negative energy into something positive. Sounds impossible but you have nothing to lose by trying.

You cannot beg your way back into love, but by respecting yourself you may change things.

Do you have any sort of sex life?


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## 49crash

I have been married the same amount of time as you but only have a 16 yr old left. I am getting a divorce currently.

You think the kids don't see the hate and indifference? Is that not teaching them the wrong way a marriage is supposed to be? As painful as it is I don't think staying together for the kids is the thing to do. Is it a sexless marriage? If so then it's you deserve better.


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## LongWalk

Since things are so terrible, why not make a really nice dinner and buy a nice bottle of wine. Tell your wife that you want to celebrate the way that the two of you have been hanging on, in spite of all the animosity. You deserve a nice dinner. Think up some good jokes. Remember if you can laugh at yourself and get her to laugh at you laughing at yourself, you may have had a nice moment together. That in itself can be a sort victory.

Also, can you list all your wife's positive features. Is there anything at all about her that deserves some credit?


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## ElCanario

turnera said:


> Have you read HNHN yet? Done the questionnaires?


What is HNHN? If you told me I'm afraid that I forgot.


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## ElCanario

LongWalk said:


> ElCan,
> 
> Obviously there is a lot to your story that you have not told, but the fact that you hate each other is a lot better than feeling indifference. With hate you have some strong emotion to work with.
> 
> Since you are at bottom in many respects, you can try and channel the negative energy into something positive. Sounds impossible but you have nothing to lose by trying.
> 
> You cannot beg your way back into love, but by respecting yourself you may change things.
> 
> Do you have any sort of sex life?


I would love to channel this energy but don't know how. 

No, I have no sex life, and that makes me sad, miserable and angry.


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## ElCanario

49crash said:


> I have been married the same amount of time as you but only have a 16 yr old left. I am getting a divorce currently.
> 
> You think the kids don't see the hate and indifference? Is that not teaching them the wrong way a marriage is supposed to be? As painful as it is I don't think staying together for the kids is the thing to do. Is it a sexless marriage? If so then it's you deserve better.


I know the kids see this but I don't know how I'd be able to live without them. Yes it is a sexless marriage and I know I deserve better, but what I don't know is how I'll be able to find anyone to love and to love me. I don't have any social skills and am unattractive.


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## ElCanario

LongWalk said:


> Since things are so terrible, why not make a really nice dinner and buy a nice bottle of wine. Tell your wife that you want to celebrate the way that the two of you have been hanging on, in spite of all the animosity. You deserve a nice dinner. Think up some good jokes. Remember if you can laugh at yourself and get her to laugh at you laughing at yourself, you may have had a nice moment together. That in itself can be a sort victory.
> 
> Also, can you list all your wife's positive features. Is there anything at all about her that deserves some credit?


I don't know if the dinner would work, as she doesn't want to be in the same room as me most of the time. 

Positive features? Yes, she has them, but her acerbic, caustic mouth and petty, childish personality has overshadowed them. I try to think go our fun times in the past but instead that gets pushed out by the evil things she's said and done.


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## turnera

Give us more history. It's hard to give advice when we know nothing about your relationship.


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## 49crash

You can still have time with your kids just not as much. Heck as far as finding someone to love you well in my case I have a recent chronic illness(crohn's disease) that has put me in the hospital twice and forces me to take a ton of meds that don't exactly boost my libido. I also have no social skills since I have been married 24 years. I have no idea how to date. Who wants to get involved with a sick broken hearted old guy? I don't know but I know I can't stay in my marriage with no sex and sleeping in separate rooms. Heck my wife is still my best friend and I'm still getting divorced. So see you are not alone



ElCanario said:


> I know the kids see this but I don't know how I'd be able to live without them. Yes it is a sexless marriage and I know I deserve better, but what I don't know is how I'll be able to find anyone to love and to love me. I don't have any social skills and am unattractive.


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## ElCanario

turnera said:


> Give us more history. It's hard to give advice when we know nothing about your relationship.


Well, we married 25 years ago this month. She was a year younger than me and had an 8-year-old son. She was a teen mom. I had never had a girlfriend up to that point but had a degree from an Ivy League school and a great job. I was quite surprised that any woman would be interested. My family was very much against the relationship and the marriage. Reasons were many, some maybe legit, some quite illogical. Bottom line was I was neither ready to be married nor prepared for it. Why did I get married then? Desperation. 

There is more, a lot more, but I'll only get into it if anyone wants to hear more. Suffice it to say that as of right now, I am destroyed, defeated and devastated. My wife refuses to give any affection or intimacy and says she wants out. But I think we are afraid of the maelstrom of hell this type of action would unleash. How do you live with someone and take care of kids while engaged in an acrimonious divorce?


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## turnera

What you need right now is a lot of therapy. You never seemed to have established your own identity. Many many men divorce their wives and go on to have AMAZING relationships with their kids. But you seem incapable of recognizing this. My guess is you're codependent and need to learn to be ok with yourself, BY yourself.


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## 3Xnocharm

ElCanario said:


> Well, we married 25 years ago this month. She was a year younger than me and had an 8-year-old son. She was a teen mom. I had never had a girlfriend up to that point but had a degree from an Ivy League school and a great job. I was quite surprised that any woman would be interested. My family was very much against the relationship and the marriage. Reasons were many, some maybe legit, some quite illogical. Bottom line was I was neither ready to be married nor prepared for it. Why did I get married then? Desperation.
> 
> There is more, a lot more, but I'll only get into it if anyone wants to hear more. Suffice it to say that as of right now, I am destroyed, defeated and devastated. My wife refuses to give any affection or intimacy and says she wants out. But I think we are afraid of the maelstrom of hell this type of action would unleash. How do you live with someone and take care of kids while engaged in an acrimonious divorce?


What makes you think there will be a "maelstrom of hell" because of this?? You BOTH want out. There is no need to have an acrimonious divorce when divorce is what you both want. Your kids are old enough to stay where they want to, and at their ages, you wont be seeing much of them even if you are in the house with them full time. Teenagers dont hang around home with their parents very much, as I am sure you have realized with one being 16!  It is very unfair for them to have to live in a home where their parents cannot stand each other. Would you want to see either of THEM in this situation? What advice would you give? Your "marriage" sounds miserable, how awful to stay with someone who claims to hate you.  You really can live a fulfilling life, you just have to choose it.


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## happy as a clam

ElCanario said:


> What is HNHN? If you told me I'm afraid that I forgot.


"His Needs, Her Needs." Definitely worth reading.


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## happy as a clam

ElCanario said:


> How do you live with someone and take care of kids while engaged in an acrimonious divorce?


You don't let it become acrimonious.

Look, you both basically want out. What's there to fight about? You both want the same thing. It's not like one of you cheated on the other one resulting in bitterness, hatred, betrayal, etc.

Your kids are old enough that there shouldn't be any of this "two weekends and Wednesday nights" BS. The two of you should try to work out a SHARED PARENTING plan long before it ever gets to court. I'm not sure what state you live in, but the judge will take into consideration the kids' wishes if it comes down to that.

Come up with a fair settlement and avoid expensive lawyers and a trial. Basically 50/50 split of the assets; you will likely have to pay spousal support and child support, but you will be able see your children far more than you think. My kids are back and forth between my house and my ex's house constantly.  And they are well adjusted and far happier now that our miserable marriage is over.

I stayed in my VERY unhappy marriage for 20 long years. Getting out was the BEST thing I ever did for me, my kids, and my ex. Everyone is much happier now.

Best part of all, I am in the happiest relationship of my life, going on 4 years now. And my kids adore my new SO (come over to hang out with him all the time) and they seem to like my ex's SO a lot too.


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## EleGirl

Does your wife have a job?


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## EleGirl

Have you tried counseling for yourself? You sounds seriously depressed and like you have no self esteem what so ever.

Use this time now to start bettering yourself. Got out and make friends. Look at Find your people - Meetup Find things to do that you enjoy. You can even take our children to them. Meet people. Build up a new life for yourself so that when the time comes you have a new life to walk out into.


Work on getting rid of your depression, working your physical appearance.

What is so awful about the way you look that you think you will never get anyone else in your life?


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## Mr Blunt

> Suffice it to say that as of right now, I am destroyed, defeated and devastated.


If you two do not make significant progress in the very immediate future you will be faced with the lesser of two evils.

If you do not get a LOT better then you had better *grow some cajones and make a plan to get out of the relationship*. You are being totally destroyed in your current state and you probably do not have much time before you are totally ruined with possible permanent damage. 


*If you recover from your fears and devastation your children will be better o fin the long run than if you stay in a relationship where there is hate*. Get yourself some help with your fears and self-worth as they are exaggerated in your mind.


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## ElCanario

turnera said:


> What you need right now is a lot of therapy. You never seemed to have established your own identity. Many many men divorce their wives and go on to have AMAZING relationships with their kids. But you seem incapable of recognizing this. My guess is you're codependent and need to learn to be ok with yourself, BY yourself.


I would definitely agree with you re: therapy. I have had some therapy in the past - the results have been terrible to middling to OK. I need to find something really soon.

Not sure what you mean about the identity comment though. I have spent LOTS of time by myself, and am and have been OK with that. But being alone is highly overrated when you've been in that state most of your life. I have an amazing relationship with my kids, and I don't want that to end.


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## ElCanario

3Xnocharm said:


> What makes you think there will be a "maelstrom of hell" because of this??


Because I know this woman. She doesn't want a fair or equitable settlement. She wants to "win."



> You BOTH want out. There is no need to have an acrimonious divorce when divorce is what you both want.


I know that. You know that. Does she know that?



> Your kids are old enough to stay where they want to, and at their ages, you wont be seeing much of them even if you are in the house with them full time. Teenagers dont hang around home with their parents very much, as I am sure you have realized with one being 16!  It is very unfair for them to have to live in a home where their parents cannot stand each other. Would you want to see either of THEM in this situation? What advice would you give?


I've told them not to get married. Even if my "marriage" were a good one, the way the institution of marriage is set up, it doesn't benefit men one iota.




> Your "marriage" sounds miserable, how awful to stay with someone who claims to hate you.  You really can live a fulfilling life, you just have to choose it.


I know how my life is now. I know how it possibly could be after a divorce. It could be great (though I greatly fear having to get into dating, as I totally failed at it before) or it could be miserable, for lots of reasons. I guess the bottom line is that I'm afraid of going through the hellish process of getting there.


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## ElCanario

happy as a clam said:


> You don't let it become acrimonious.


Not up to me. I'm married to someone who, despite my being the primary parent in terms of who has done most of the "taking care" things with the kids, believes fathers are not necessary. She doesn't want to be fair in terms of custody/support/assets.



> Look, you both basically want out. What's there to fight about? You both want the same thing. It's not like one of you cheated on the other one resulting in bitterness, hatred, betrayal, etc.


What's there to fight about? See above.



> Your kids are old enough that there shouldn't be any of this "two weekends and Wednesday nights" BS. The two of you should try to work out a SHARED PARENTING plan long before it ever gets to court. I'm not sure what state you live in, but the judge will take into consideration the kids' wishes if it comes down to that.
> 
> Come up with a fair settlement and avoid expensive lawyers and a trial.





> Basically 50/50 split of the assets;* you will likely have to pay spousal support and child support,*


Why? Why not her? She makes more money than me (in the business I helped her set up and maintain).



> but you will be able see your children far more than you think. My kids are back and forth between my house and my ex's house constantly. And they are well adjusted and far happier now that our miserable marriage is over.
> 
> I stayed in my VERY unhappy marriage for 20 long years. Getting out was the BEST thing I ever did for me, my kids, and my ex. Everyone is much happier now.
> 
> Best part of all, I am in the happiest relationship of my life, going on 4 years now. And my kids adore my new SO (come over to hang out with him all the time) and they seem to like my ex's SO a lot too.


I am glad it worked out that way for you, but I fear that I'm not going to be so lucky, at least relationshipwise.


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## ElCanario

EleGirl said:


> Does your wife have a job?


Yes, she has worked in a specialized business for quite some time and has done well. Despite her contentions, I am a major reason for this.


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## ElCanario

EleGirl said:


> Have you tried counseling for yourself? You sounds seriously depressed and like you have no self esteem what so ever.


Pretty much the case. 



> Use this time now to start bettering yourself. Got out and make friends. Look at Find your people - Meetup Find things to do that you enjoy. You can even take our children to them. Meet people. Build up a new life for yourself so that when the time comes you have a new life to walk out into.
> 
> 
> Work on getting rid of your depression, working your physical appearance.


I would like to do the Meetup thing or something. Other than taking care of my kids and working, I really have nothing else going on. I used to be a musician who played and was the lead singer with a band. I used to have lots of other interests. Since kids (and working a lot) I haven't done much of anything.



> What is so awful about the way you look that you think you will never get anyone else in your life?


I've been overweight all my life. I was also quite an athlete, but none of that translated into any relationships with women. Being facially unattractive, shy and socially inept sort of kept that from happening. Now I'm much older and don't exercise much anymore. That combined with diabetes has made my once-fit (think weightlifter or lineman) body look horrible, and now that I'm balding and my teeth are bad, I'm not much of a prize for anyone. Even when I try to get in shape or control my weight, I find it impossible to get back into things for very long. I get frustrated with dieting and slack off. A high level of stress doesn't help things.


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## happy as a clam

ElCanario said:


> Why? Why not her? She makes more money than me (in the business I helped her set up and maintain).


Well, it all depends on who is the primary custodial parent. I agree it's not fair.


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## Jellybeans

Get to the gym. Seriously. Once you start exercising (maybe even outdoors-doesn't have to be a gym), you are going to start feeling better.

About your marriage: if she is unwilling to do counseling and wants out, then you guys need to decide whether to stay in the status quo or actually do something to end the marriage. Limbo is not a good place for anyone to be. 

It'd be one thing if she actually wanted the marriage to work (and you did) but it's quite different if you both want out and are just staying to "go through motions." Have you spoken to a lawyer about your rights/the law where you live?

There is life after divorce. But you won't ever know if you keep in this dynamic.


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## turnera

Go to meetup.com and find some things to do in your city. Start leaving the kids with her and going out. You'll be surprised how much fun you can have. None of this type of thing requires you being 'good looking.' Just people out wanting to have fun.


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## 3Xnocharm

Dude...stop feeling sorry for yourself and start making the changes! No woman will want a man like this, would you want a woman who acts this pathetic? And you know what? Even if you DONT end up finding another woman, (which you WILL...) its not the end of the world, and being on your own and living life on your own terms beats the hell any day out of the ridiculous pile of misery you are living right now with someone else!


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## ElCanario

3Xnocharm said:


> Dude...stop feeling sorry for yourself and start making the changes! No woman will want a man like this, would you want a woman who acts this pathetic? And you know what? Even if you DONT end up finding another woman, (which you WILL...) its not the end of the world, and being on your own and living life on your own terms beats the hell any day out of the ridiculous pile of misery you are living right now with someone else!


LOL. I do sound like a mealymouthed punk, don't I?

I'm really not this bad in real life........but I'm feeling damn depressed right about now.


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## 3Xnocharm

ElCanario said:


> LOL. I do sound like a mealymouthed punk, don't I?
> 
> *I'm really not this bad in real life*........but I'm feeling damn depressed right about now.


Ok, I will take your word for it!  I am sure that it is difficult to have self confidence when your "partner" takes such joy in insulting you...


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## turnera

Exercise - even just going for a walk - is the #1 way to alleviate depression.


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## john117

turnera said:


> Exercise - even just going for a walk - is the #1 way to alleviate depression.



Except when it doesn't work.

After a 15 mile bike ride yesterday my wife walked 6 miles, did 30 min more on the threadmill, and was as sh!tty personality wise as I've seen her in months. 

Zombie is zombie. An exercising zombie is still a zombie. It may work for mild depression but like diabetes you can't treat it with exercise alone.


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## ElCanario

Well..........I am getting closer and closer to just giving up altogether. I already know this relationship is doomed, but don't know how to live with someone in the same house during a divorce. Lawyers have told me not to move out because that could be construed as me abandoning my family. So I'm stuck with this insane, bipolar bword. And you guys wonder why I have so much despair?


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## Jellybeans

The longer you have no plan of action, the more despair you will feel.

If you truly want out, then file and start separating your lives.

But I agree-don't leave the house-it may be seen as abandonment.

Have you told her you want a divorce?

Oh and is there someone else?


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## 3Xnocharm

ElCanario said:


> Well..........I am getting closer and closer to just giving up altogether. I already know this relationship is doomed, but don't know how to live with someone in the same house during a divorce. Lawyers have told me not to move out because that could be construed as me abandoning my family. So I'm stuck with this insane, bipolar bword. And you guys wonder why I have so much despair?


Well, in your case, it probably wont be much different than living with her NOW. Start making your plans, and dont say a word to her about it until you have everything lined up and ready to go. That will help give you the strength to go through with it, and give you less time with having to deal with limbo.


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## ElCanario

Jellybeans said:


> The longer you have no plan of action, the more despair you will feel.
> 
> If you truly want out, then file and start separating your lives.
> 
> But I agree-don't leave the house-it may be seen as abandonment.


Yes......that is why I have stayed, but again, I don't know how we will be able to live together once that process has started. 




> Have you told her you want a divorce?


Not exactly. I want to break up, sure, but she wants to do it on HER terms.

When she has told me she wants a divorce (not directly, more like "You should get out," or "You should work on getting your own place" or "I'm going to start making moves," I tell her that I refuse to leave and that I'm not leaving the kids for any reason whatsoever. I have told her I was miserable and can't stand being in a relationship with her, that I can't take her wishy-washy, vindictive personality and verbal abuse anymore.



> Oh and is there someone else?


On my side, I wish there was. Oh my God, don't I wish. I don't know if she has someone else. I have flat out said to her that her behavior leads me to believe she's got someone, but she semi-denies it. I think I'm gonna have to get some spygear and discreetly look around.


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## ElCanario

3Xnocharm said:


> Well, in your case, it probably wont be much different than living with her NOW. Start making your plans, and dont say a word to her about it until you have everything lined up and ready to go. That will help give you the strength to go through with it, and give you less time with having to deal with limbo.


I have been trying to do that, slowly, but money is a problem. My job barely covers the bills, and I lost the two side gigs I had that I was using to get extra money to save toward this. I really am ready to just file and get out.


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## turnera

Can you make money online? What do you do?


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## ElCanario

turnera said:


> Can you make money online? What do you do?


Principally I am a writer and editor. The ancillary gigs I lost this year were freelance writing gigs.


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## turnera

Are you using guru.com? I'm a writer/editor, too, and I've earned thousands from guru. 

Where do you live? And do you have any medical writing background?


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## ElCanario

turnera said:


> Are you using guru.com? I'm a writer/editor, too, and I've earned thousands from guru.
> 
> Where do you live? And do you have any medical writing background?


I'm answering offline.


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