# How to maintain balance in a marriage with children and mortgage.



## Gonecrazy (Oct 12, 2014)

Hello All,
I'm struggling, I really am struggling. I'm married and have been in this relationship for over 10 years. We have 3 beautiful children and a mortgage. I work Monday to Friday during the day and my wife works Sunday to Thursday during the night. 

This is what it takes to own a house, send our children to private (Cheaper version but still private) school, and keep all the bills payed. We have both suffered psychologically in this relationship and I feel it is because it's success is unattainable.

In this country, to be able to call your home your own and raise a family you need to be bringing in $100,000 AUS dollars per annum minimum. So before tax that means one person has to be on $150,000+, or two people have to be on $60,000+.

Raising a family and caring for the house hold is a full time job in it self. My point that I'm trying to make here is that my wife and I have 1.5 full time jobs each and subsequently have both sacrificed our own pleasures and our relationship to put our children and our finical future first.

If we did not have children, we would both work during the day, and have plenty of time together at night and on the weekends to maintain our relationship. Alternatively, if one of us was earning $150k, the other would not need to work and be able to take full duty of the children and house, again leaving time to maintain a relationship.

So how does a couple maintain balance when they both have to work, have kids and a mortgage and keep their relationship humming along nicely? The demands of children through the week and we usually spend the weekend catching up on choirs that we could not get too during the week. Other then that, we both just want to do nothing due to fatigue.

One of my biggest issues is with our sex life. (surprise surprise) 7 years ago it started to get really ordinary. Her rejections, and then pity sex have messed my head up and now I find it hard to enjoy sex with her. One year ago I suffered ED (psychological). I seem to be ok now but if I ever don't last long I get worried. The psychological effects of the ED have continued. 

I have so little self esteem, I would be scared to even try having an affair (even know my wife has given me permission to sleep with other women if that's what I want!) out of fear of not performing or being rejected. 6 years ago I had an opportunity to have an affair with a hot woman. I did not take that opportunity and now I feel like an idiot. I should have f%$ked her when I had the chance before I started feeling like the way I do. I feel that a positive sexual experience with another woman would have helped me not be the way I am now.

I feel like my relationship, the love I once felt for my wife, and my sex life are pretty much over and that that's what is necessary to be successful. I could not pack my bags, lose the house, have no money to help our children, risk some other joker playing father to my children (that is MY job), just so I can "get some" and feel better about myself. I do care for my wife very much! I give her massages and help around the house as much as I can and I just spent $550 on her for Christmas. So I don't hate her, it's just my needs are not getting met and neither are hers and I can't find a solution.
We do get some baby sitting on Sundays but my life is just not enjoyable and I can't find peace. Do I have to wait till the kids have moved out before I can have some kind of life again?

Thanks in advance for any pointers.
Cheers


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think that you need to start by redefining what success means. 

What are the things in your budget that can be reduced or eliminated? For example, 4 years ago I cut my expenses in half by doing things like getting rid of cable TV. Since then we just use Netflix. I went through each thing that I pay and looked for a way to either eliminate it or at least cut it to a bare minimum. 

Do your children really need to go to private school? Or is this a status thing that has to do with defining success? 

If you could reduce the expenses, then perhaps you could afford to have your wife (or you) work outside the home less. Or you could hire someone to do some of the housework so that you and your wife can relax more.

Also, since you and your wife work different hours, the time that you two are home together should be scheduled as special time.. special family time and special couples time.

What sort of things do you do by yourself that you enjoy?

Some reading that might help you are the books "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters". You could read them, then get your wife to read them. The two of you could then work through the things that the books suggest and restructure your lives so that you two get back to enjoying life and each other.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I agree that you need to start looking at budgeting again. Your children probably don't need a private education as much as they need happy, healthy parents!

Take the pressure off yourself and your wife. You don't need to do all the things you do. Put your wife's, your children's and your wellbeing first. You don't really have to even own a house if that is what is draining you.

Sometimes "keeping up with the Joneses" can drive you to do some of these things. I am an educationalist and found that most schools (public and private) don't really know how to educate so I took an active interest and role in educating my kids. Saved me a lot of money on private education and the results were fabulous.

It sounds like you are working yourselves into the ground and this has got to stop while you can still enjoy your time with your kids and wife.

Now onto a very important subject: CHEATING IS NEVER RIGHT!!! Even if you think your wife gave you permission to do so! Your comment that you should have had sex with that "hot woman" to improve your ego or self-confidence made me cringe! It would be the most destructive thing you could do - to yourself as well as your wife and kids. Your self-esteem has to come from within you and your values. Develop these values - don't seek false gratification elsewhere.

Take the pressure off your wife (and yourself) and you will see how loving she will become - especially when she sees you as a loving husband and a man that she could admire.

Good luck!


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Hello Gonecrazy,

I agree with the others. I think you and your W know you have to work to have a good marriage and family life. I don't think either of you know what is the priority structure of that work. Hence, you're both getting a bit resentful because neither of you are getting what you want out of all the work that you putting in. 

EleGirl, gave you a couple of books that would explain the priories well. I'd recommend Fall in Love, Stay in Love, by the same author as it combines the ideas of both books. As far as your HD/LD conflict take a look at the ideas put forward here Intimacy & Desire, I haven't seen it explained better. 

Hope they give you a more useful insight.

Best


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I think your basing success, on how big your house is, the prestige of private school, and probably other materialistic things.

Fact is, one of you is bound for an affair, and then divorce would drain you financially.

Kids need healthy role models for what a couple should look like.

They may get the notion that materials, and work should come before a relationship.

Fact is, if you don't bond with your wife on a regular basis, and not just sex, but listening, and communicating, doing romantic things, your marriage will suffer.

People do need to spend quality time together, otherwise , you have become strangers.


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## mr.bunbury (Oct 20, 2014)

How come your wife has given you permission to have an affair? Has she had hers already?


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

I suggest you downsize your life, live on your income and she stays home with your children. You guys never see each other, no wonder your marriage is struggling. People don't need two incomes to live. They just don't want to give up their stuff. We live on my husbands income. Do we have a huge house, two new cars and vacations every year? No we don't we have an average size house, older cars and it's been many years since we could afford to go on a vacation but I'm there for my husband and my children and that's more important than material things to us.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Some places are just more expensive to live than others. I feel for you OP, you need that kind of income to get by around me too. 

You said 
"If we did not have children, we would both work during the day, and have plenty of time together at night and on the weekends to maintain our relationship"

Why can you not both work during the day now? You mentioned school but are there younger ones at home too? How long until you can both have day jobs?


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## TheHappyGuy (Aug 27, 2012)

Hi Gonecrazy,

the very first thing I would do is take my kids out of private school. Statistically, there is no benefit for the kids in terms of job security, income and education level. See this article to confirm this: http://www.smh.com.au/national/priv...an-public-in-jobs-market-20140816-104do1.html. I live in Australia as well (in NSW) and ever since migrating here I struggle with the common perception that private schools are better than public schools. They are not. 

Overall, I think you've got your priorities wrong. You want to live a certain lifestyle that you think society requires you to fulfil (keeping up with the Jones, as someone else already said).  You probably live in a house that's too big for your needs and I'd be surprised if you don't also have a loan on two decent cars. The fact that you spend $550 on Christmas presents suggests that you live above your means. (not that your wife doesn't deserve it but the expenditure adds to your problems). 

I started of in Sydney (which is more expensive than Brisbane) with $50,000/year, married with 2 small kids and we managed. Point is, you do not need $100-150k to survive.

Good luck.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

What do you envision as a happy life? What things would you need to change to make it happen? 

Perhaps look for ways to cut expenses - less outside expensive activities for your children and more family time, take back $400 worth of the Christmas gifts and use it to go away for a weekend with your wife, stop giving more than you are getting. 

The last point is not meant to be a passive aggressive move or mean. You'll fell better when you give as much as you get, a fair exchange of satisfactions. Take away time that you use to rub your wife down and use it to go out for a walk with your wife. Use it as alone time to spend with friends to do activities that you enjoy. 

We live in the US and moved from a house to a condo with no ensuite and large kitchen when we relocated. The children go to a good public school which we supplement with outings to enhance their education. A house and private school was within our reach if my husband, who is the main breadwinner, became a work slave. Our priorities were - time for us as a couple and as a family. 

How about doing a complete shift in what you consider success. Maybe it's not private schools, half a thousand AUS in gifts and massages for the wife. You are trying so hard in areas that bring you no satisfaction. Why is that?


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## Gonecrazy (Oct 12, 2014)

Hi Everybody,
I would firstly like to thank everyone for taking the time to read my post and give your advice. I wish to respond to you all but I may not get through everyone tonight. One thing I have realized is that I have not given enough information in my OP which has left certain facts open, leading people to fill in the blanks incorrectly, which means now I feel the need to correct some people so that you may better understand my situation. I did not want to over post because nobody wants to read a novel.

I'm now going to be giving some of my opinions I hope that I do not insult anybody. I have come here for advice and do not wish to p!ss off my advisors. So please bear with me.

EleGirl: 18,000+ posts!!! You must have fingers of steel! When It comes to our budget, I'm very penny savvy. There is no pay tv, aircon, or other luxuries as such. Every area in which I can save money, we save money. No lights are left on in the house when not needed. We save what ever leftovers there are after dinner for later. We plan our road trips so as to save fuel and time, so on and so forth.

With Private school, it is actually one of the cheapest private schools. Some of those schools charge the same as a university! This is just my opinion and I mean no insult to anyone who sends their child to private school. What I have found in life is that certain personality traits tend to cluster. For example, drug use, poverty, domestic violence. SOME people who send their children to public school do so because they fall into this cluster and I don't want my children falling into bad company. When I went to the school they now go to, there was very little drug use. Where as the school down the road was public, I knew some people who went there, and there was more drug use in the teenagers.

Ultimately, children are going to make friends with who ever they go to school with, and I just want to avoid the best I can from putting them in any environment that could lead them down a road they may regret. Again, this is just a generalization. I'm not trying to say that parents that send their kids to public school are all druggies or people who don't care! Today, drugs are more available than they were when I was a school goer and I worry. I cannot stress enough that I do not mean any insult to any parents that send their children to public school! This is just my opinion on the matter.

We do find it hard to spent time together because of our schedules, but also, that I feel less love for her now. I have started playing tennis again since I chose to give up motorcycling since it was a little too expensive. I want to thank you very much for recommending 'his needs, her needs'. I have ordered the 'for parents' copy which will arrive in 2 weeks, and I have bought the original through IBooks. I'm up to chapter 3 and already feel confident that I'm going to get something good out of this. So again, thank you. The first chapter, explaining how affairs manifest is a mirror of what happened with a past work mate. I did not let it become physical, but was very tempted from her very strong passes at me. I had offered her emotional support during her divorce just out of kindness. My first mistake. In chapter 2, the love bank. I love it because I like using analogies to explain difficult to understand concepts and could relate. I'll be reading more tonight, thank you.


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## Gonecrazy (Oct 12, 2014)

manfromlamancha: Thanks for your post. You are right, we are driving ourselves into the ground, but i'll respond more about that later. I want to further explain my comment about the cheating. When I was in my teens I had a fantastic sex life. 1 - 2 hours love making was normal. My girl was easily pleasured with 2 -4 O for her every time. I felt very confident in my coital abilities and satisfied with my lover. I then remained 3 years single and celibate to find my "true love". The first three years of my relationship were excellent. I could not quite make love for an hour but still my now wife seemed satisfied. The frequency was just enough to keep me interested. But I didn't care because I was in love. Then things changed. As life became more busy, love making became less frequent and in shorter duration. To the point where we would only make love for 10 -20 minutes and my wife would not O. She only O through oral or with handy work during penetration.

I started to feel like a failure because she did not want to make love any longer and was not interested in getting an O! When she would hit on me, it was so passive, that I didn't realize. She would constantly rejecting my advances because of fatigue, kids interrupting, headache, you know the drill I'm sure. So I stopped ever hitting on her, and left sexual advances to her. Hence, I barely got any action. She would only offer sex if she though that I was grumpy. Then one day we had a huge fight. 

She did not want sex but offered me oral which I accepted. When I looked down to her face, she looked like I had a gun to her head and was forcing her. I pulled out, told her to f%$k off and that I'm so sorry I have given her another "choir" to do that she despises. I was so hurt and felt so guilty that she felt pressured to do something of a sexual nature that she did not want to do. I didn't even let her touch me for one month after that. Eventually, after her pleading and apologizing, we became intimate again, reluctantly.

Then almost 2 years ago, I suffered ED. I went to the doctor and got tests, nothing physical, just psychological. Stress. But get this. Three months after complete and utter ED, I went out by my self for the night. 2 hours at the strip club, 4 hours dancing with a friend I met up with at the pub, a few drinks, and I went home frisky. 2 am, hard as a rock, had an O, stayed hard, had a second O, fell asleep. Woke up at 3am, hard again, third O. What do you make of that!!!???? I have not done anything like that since I was 20 years old! I just had ED 3 months prior.

Using the love bank analogy, I have had 7 years of negative deposits in my love making bank. 7 years of negative experiences. When ever I'm intimate with my wife I get anxious, nervous, and start to wonder why she even wants me. So why I said that, is because I feel that if I had just 1 positive sexual experience before I started falling apart, I would not feel as [email protected] towards myself and my sexuality. I'm at the point where I'm considering offering random women through Craigs List or some other pick up site, free oral with no obligation for reciprocation. Just so I can hopefully have a woman who wants me and is pleasured. That's how desperate that I have become.
I didn't name myself GoneCrazy for nothing, I know I have lost it.
Thanks for your post.


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## Gonecrazy (Oct 12, 2014)

anchorwatch: Hi, thanks for your input. I defiantly take a look at 'intimacy and desire' when I get a chance. 
Cheers 

Mr.Fisty: Thanks for your response. Mate, I agree with most of what you said except with what my basis of success is which I will explain soon. Kids defiantly needs positive role models and that is why I'm here, struggling to be that role model and fulfill our needs as well, and yes, we are becoming strangers.
Thanks for you response.

mr.bunbury: I had the same skepticism as you when she first suggested it. Is she trying to wipe some guilt clean with two wrongs making a right? Does she want an open marriage? Is she just building up some guild credit for later? I have come to the conclusion that she is a very selfless woman who would do ANYTHING to make me happy, with in her power that is. It is obviously not within her power to work with me and remember the solutions that I have suggested (that she agreed with) and putting them in place. She is a bit of a rug sweeper, and wants to forget problems until they arise again. As we all know, that does not work. Thank you for your post.

Happilymarried25: I'm glad things are working well for you. I'll be talking about my concept of success and fiances when I hit The happy guy's post. I chose the look to the future and plan it. Not just live in the here and now and then have a nasty reality check later in live that can't be reversed. Thanks for your post.

SlowleyGoingCrazy: Thanks mate. The issue is I start work at 6am. 2 kids at school and one in kindy 2.5 days per week. My wife takes them to school after work and I pick them up after my work. Her day shift would overlap with mine. Also her job is specialized, and is far from home. If she took a day shift due to traffic it would take 2 extra hours in traffic per day. Our peek traffic is that bad, where as she travels at the top speed limit the whole way at night. If I get the kids she gets 7 hours sleep in the day. If I don't she only get 4.5 to 5 hours sleep. Next year with all the kids in school we are going to get before and after school care which means 8+ hours sleep for her, and I don't have to work like a demon with out any breaks in my job so as to get home in time to pick up kids. It will be a little better, but cost us more. Also, her penalty rates are 75%.
Thanks for your post.


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## Gonecrazy (Oct 12, 2014)

TheHappyGuy: Mate, good to see another Auzzie on here. The only part of your post I'm going to agree with is the part regarding education. Education wise, I agree, but it's more of a social issue. Now lets talk $'s, my favorite subject. Not only am I going to disagree with you, I'm also going to give you some advice that I think you need to listen to. I hope you don't take it the wrong way and take no insult from what I'm about to say.

Firstly, I don't give a flying f^&k about what people in society require of me. My peers rarely dictate my financial choices, and there are no Jones's in my neighborhood if you know what I mean. You should know Brisbane prices. Our house cost just over $300,000 on a 550mtr square block. No pool, double carport, 4 bedder. That is on the bottom end of the scale for 30 min north of the city. Both our cars combined would not be worth $10,000. 2002 Commodore and 2006 Camry. The only loan I have ever had besides the home loan was when I was 17 and borrowed $1600 off my father to buy my first car. I paid it back in 16 weeks. I only got a credit card to pay bills and pay it off in 2 weeks so as to build up some "credit rating" with the bank to help get a home loan, which we ended up not needing and have never paid interest on the credit card.

Xmas gifts, I usually cap Xmas at $1000 for everybody. The last 2 valentine's days, I didn't even buy my wife flowers. The last three Xmas's, the gifts were lame. She has stood by me, worked her a$$ off, remained faithful, and been an excellent mother to our three children and rarely ever said boo. She lets me go to strip clubs and has offered me to seek sexual pleasures outside the relationship. I though it was about time I stepped up and got her something special. She had made 2 suggestions, one was a little pricey, the other not so much, so I got her both. I have never spent so much on someone before! I know that my OP may have been unclear and been a little misleading, but I just wanted to give you a better snap shot of my situation.

Now my concept of success is this. I'm not going to work hard all my life and retire with nothing. There are people in my wife's family who are retired and stone broke. The can barely afford toilet paper to wipe their own a$$. To me that is pathetic. My minimum standard is this. 

1. Modest home ownership
2. Modest motor vehicle ownership
3. Modest retirement fund
4. To look back at my life with out regrets
5. To help my children financially with their first cars, uni, etc.
6. To have a happy and content relationship
7. To have something to pass on to my family when I die, money, life experience etc.
8. most importantly, to know that I have lived a full life, am not suffering any physical or psychological disorder, and that I have made the best choices for my family and me.
9. To be able to die in peace with my choices.

This to me is success, now if I could have a fancy car, that's a bonus. A yearly holiday, bonus. A large breasted wife half my age, double bonus. (Just a little joke). 

I'm starting to get really tired now some I'm going to wrap this up and get back to Catherine tomorrow. Now, yes Sydney is expensive. But I say to you this. You need to look to your future. You might survive now on that kind of wage. But for how long will you linger on one wage before you become on dual incomes. If you continue like that, you will have to work until your 80. You will have no assets for your kids to make their life better. You will have a pi$$ poor retirement fund, meaning, you get to just sit and watch TV for the rest of your life. Any medical procedures that are not covered by government will not be available to you and you will suffer. Survival is not just about here and now, it is about here and always. Living in the present is good, planning your future is better.

Again, I know that you are trying to help me and I appreciate your response. I hope you don't take insult from my post. I will not compromise on my minimum standard. If we ever broke up I wold live of of my car before giving up the house. Every time I look at the poor people in my family who have chosen to 'live it up' in their youth by not working hard and spending too much time on relationships. I wonder, if they think it was worth it in the long run. I do not ask them our of respect, but I wonder. 

Thanks again for your post, I hope you still have some love for me.
Cheers Mate.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Gonecrazy said:


> So how does a couple maintain balance when they both have to work, have kids and a mortgage and keep their relationship humming along nicely? The demands of children through the week and we usually spend the weekend catching up on choirs that we could not get too during the week. Other then that, we both just want to do nothing due to fatigue.


How do you maintain balance? You don't, not always. Some years will be harder than others, but you hold on by the skin of your teeth until you make it through.

Feel like it's all slipping away? Do what you're doing and research how to do better. Even thinking about how to fix it is doing something positive. The more research you do, the more hopeful you feel. The more knowledge you impart to your spouse (because we can't help but talk about something that interests us to our spouses, hopefully), the more they learn, the more hopeful they feel.

Don't want to have to work like a demon and never see your spouse? Move out of the cities. You don't have to earn 150,000+ to have a family and a home in Aus.

I read your list of priorities and most of them have to do with money. I can't fault them, most people have those priorities, but yours haven't made you happy, at least not in that order. You put marriage somewhere low on that list, and I don't think that's a random thing, I think that's how you've treated it all these years. You've put it on the backburner, as has your wife. Sometimes the marriage should come before the retirement fund, unless you want to spend your retirement on your own.

"Getting the love you want" H. Hendrix. Once you've read it there are exercises in the back that would be a huge help to you and your wife.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

Gone Crazy it appears from your responses that you are fine with the choices you have made. But then surely you know that with choices there are consequences and if you are not willing to make different choices, there is no magic wand to make the consequences go away. 

I dont fault people who choose to work for more material things as long as its a joint decision and the children receive enough loving attention between the 2 of them. But then you have to accept that you cant have your cake and eat it too.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Is it statistically a worse bet to send your children to public school or raise them in a broken home?

That might well be the choice you're making.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Gonecrazy said:


> She lets me go to strip clubs and has offered me to seek sexual pleasures outside the relationship. I though it was about time I stepped up and got her something special. She had made 2 suggestions, one was a little pricey, the other not so much, so I got her both.


Of all the materialistic things you've said, I keep coming back these three small sentences.

Your wife tells you to go have sex with other people so you think the best way to handle this is to buy her a couple of trinkets....


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

OP I too am an Aussie, and you don't need $150k/yr to live here.

We live on my husbands wage, our daughter used to go to private school but was miserable, so we pulled her out and placed her in public school and she is SO happy! We live in a nice suburb and the schools are very good.

Our marriage and family is more important to us than any material possessions will ever be. We live a very nice, comfortable life - no, we don't go on holidays every year, or eat out much but we have all we need and then some. 

You need to redefine what you success means to you.


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## Gonecrazy (Oct 12, 2014)

Oh dear, this is starting to get difficult. (sigh)

Catherine602: Thank you for your response. Don't apologize for being passive aggressive, because that's what I do, and what is necessary sometimes to get your point across. I will try and do more things with my wife. I was a massage therapist and my wife gets killer headaches that are tension related, there for I always try to keep them at bay with a good ol rub. I have made a mistake. Our kids don't go to private school, that was the wrong terminology. They go to Catholic school. Private schools can cost up of $20,000 per year per child. We are currently paying $80 per week for 2 children. My wife earns over $1000 in the hand per week. It's not even 2 hours worth of work to send them to Catholic school. Not going to make much of a difference. Also, I went to that school, so there is a bit of tradition there also.

Success in my opinion is a holistic concept that incorporates all of life's areas and through out my life, not just with say love and not just in the here and now. The list that I made is in no order, and was rushed and not well though out, I was half asleep trying to get through everyone's posts. I finished trying at 10pm, and need to wake up at 4:45am. Not all the areas in life that I'm striving at are going to bring me satisfaction right now, but some will in the future. Thanks for your post.

Breeze: Thanks for you post. Like I just said those priorities are in no order, they have just been numbered for ease of reading. Also, there are others that I have left out, so don't take that as cement. We already live out of the city and my wife has to travel almost 2 hours per day for work, and that's with no traffic. Moving further away is of no advantage. Also, it would cut down my workable hours before I could pick up kids. Thanks for the book tip. Cheers

Thefam: Thanks for your post. The Delmar I face is because in all areas of life, we put our children first. If we ever argue, which in not common, we keep it away from them. We spend plenty of quality time, like I take them to the park after school, and read to them sometimes. I'm trying to do the best I can to be a good example of how a woman should be treated for my daughters. Thanks

Cletus: Couldn't agree with you more.

Revamped/frusdil: You two are getting crammed together because of your comment on Materialism. Revamped the gift was for EVERYTHING that she had done for me and to make up for 3 years of sh!t efforts to be romantic. Not just for having the opportunity to get laid elsewhere. You obviously don't think I'm handling it well so why don't you tell me how to handle it. This is an advice forum, I have asked for advice so spit it out. No point calling me stupid with out justifying yourself. I'm waiting.

I would like to talk about 'materialism'. Simply because I'm so bewildered by not only peoples concepts of materialism, but the fact that even after I have further giving info, that people still have this misconstrued idea than that is who I am. So lets try and make sense of it all. 

My iPhone just told me the definition of materialism is: a desire for wealth and material possessions with little interest in ethical or spiritual matters. Google said: a tendency to consider material possessions and physical comfort as more important than spiritual values. About.comefinition: Materialism is the importance placed on material possessions. Someone with a high level of materialism, described as "materialistic," considers material possessions to be central to their life and their identity, and focuses a good deal of their energy on acquiring possessions. Someone with a low level of materialism, described as "non-materialistic," or "not materialistic," does not consider acquiring possessions to be particularly important, although they vary in the extent to which they acquire material possessions in order to meet other objectives, such as social acceptance. Cambridge online dictionary: the belief that having money and possessions is the most important thing in life. My definition: The belief that pleasure, contentment, acceptance, fulfillment and happiness is achieved through the acquisition of material items which most often are unnecessary for human beings to exists at a modest level of life. What is your definition???

People have made the comment about society placing pressure on me to want to 'keep up with the Jones's", but what about the pressure society places on you to not appear to be materialistic or money hungry to your own detriment. 'Materialism' and 'not wanting to be poor' are NOT the same thing! So, if I was materialistic I would be saying things like: I need to get a pool(I don't have a pool), I spent $3000 on my wife's wedding ring(I spent $200), I need a nice looking car(commodore worth $3,500 with 200,000+ kilometers on the clock and lots of dings), I need a gold watch(I didn't even own a normal watch until my wife bough me one worth $50 LOL) To me, this is materialism, desiring unnecessary items for self gratification and pleasure.

As it stands now, when our home loan is paid off I will be 60. The retirement age is 65 and is going to be 70. My super will give me about 150,000 - 200,000 dollars at retirement. Lets say I live to 90 since I exercise, don't smoke or drink in excess and get checkups. That leaves me with $10,000 per year to live. Do you seriously think that is going to be enough once you have factored in inflation and the possible fazing out of the pension, to survive??? If you do you're a moron. Simple. I will have 10 years to make up that retirement fund so I don't have to live on rice. That way, I can afford an operation that I may need that is not Government funded so as to maintain some kind of quality of life. Because, in case people haven't' realized, your body is going to fall to sh!t when you get old, and you are going to suffer pain and discomfort. You are going to have to pay people or burden your children, to help you do things that you can no longer do. Which in turn is going to affect your happiness. It will also affect your children and their fiances if you haven't got it together. Wanting to not suffer and live in poverty is NOT materialism in my opinion, but I'm keen to hear the opinion of others on this matter.

Achieving my financial goals insures that my children will have a great head start in life. If they go to university, they will not have the same problems as I do. They may have different problems, but money solves problems most of the time. Earning better money means they can have a secure future, and still be able to maintain a healthy relationship unlike my self. Who would not want that for their children??? Yes a successful marriage helps me achieve this. Hence the reason I'm here and not divorced. I feel the answer to my original question has been indirectly answered unanimously. Thank you to all who posted. Sorry for the passive aggression, that's just who I am. Cheers


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

You're worried about a house, cars, and private education for your children.

But You're skipping over the most important ingredient of all of it - your relationship with your wife.

I'd rather have a crummy house and a great marriage than a magnificent house all to myself because of divorce.

So, with all your ramblings, is she ANYWHERE in your equation of a successful life? Doesn't look like it from this side of the screen.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Would you believe people actually live *and* work outside of the cities? lol


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I met a man who came from a very rough neighborhood - his Dad was a doctor and he took care of those people. This man went to school with those kids because his father told him he would succeed or fail based on his values, not because of where he went to school.

I see a lot of truth in this. We pass on our values to our children. My daughter has friends who have sex, smoke pot and cigarettes, who do some self mutilation and so on. But then she sees the way we live and my values as well as the rest of our family and we have excellent conversations about all of it - the choices others make, the ramifications, why some people might make those [bad] choices and so on. 

If they are young enough for a sitter I really don't think they are gaining much educationally from private schools and if you are afraid of drugs, etc. just be very involved - you'll have more time to set good examples of a loving marriage and happy home life by doing this. Know their friends and have everyone over to YOUR house. I don't forbid her from being friends with anyone although there are some that I watch more closely than others and I've yet to be disappointed in her - she eventually sees the ones who always take and never give or who make the same bad choices over and over yet complain about the same things.

Food for thought.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

How far along are you with HNHN, Gonecrazy? Are you going to share it with your DW?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Yeah Catholic schools are not Private schools and are very cheap. Private schools in Melbourne are closer to 30k than 20k and there are a lot of ordinary people sending their kids to fee paying schools so it can be done. You have a cheap house and both work, why are you struggling so much financially? 

How much are you spending on strip clubs? That is a far more exy thing than Catholic schooling.

Sounds like you two need both financial counselling and marriage counselling. Your posts seem jumbled up, you are mixing different issues together. 

Sounds like you are stuck in a rut and both of you hold resentments towards each other and your marriage. Take a few deep breaths, stand back and think hard about what it is you really want. Maybe with some help you can untangle the mess and move forward.


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## Gonecrazy (Oct 12, 2014)

EnjoliWoman: You know I think you're right. I may be a little over protective. Maybe it is good for children to see both sides of the coin as long as parents live the good side of the coin, and use the bad as an example to learn from. My wife and I have had many a discussion and agree that we will always be involved and talk to our children about issues just before they reach the age that the issue becomes applicable to them. Hopefully we can stay ahead of any trouble. Thanks for spending the time to post your advice.

anchorwatch: Mate I'm only up to chapter 4. I have been staying up till 10pm reading responses and posting replies. I think I might take a little break from this forum to finish the book quicker. To be honest the book had surprised me a little. I have had this concept that love is just chemical reaction association, a drug basically. From personal experience and my very basic understanding of quantum physics. Willard's concept of a love banking system is the same as my idea that we build credit from the happy experiences with a person, and when a certain level is reached, all of a sudden we are in love. Subsequently, when those experiences are reduced, after a time, we cross the same level in reverse, and then we are not in love any more. Maybe my concept of love is not so crazy after all.

The thing that got me though, from the examples that he has stated, is he is basically saying that human beings are incapable of making good decisions, and sticking to promises, when their fundamental needs are not being met. The idea that when core and basal needs are not being met, that someone else either intentionally or not meets those needs, the inevitable result is an affair. That all vows/promises taken in sight of family, friends, God, are made obsolete under desperate circumstances. Maybe this is why I feel so uptight. I'm fighting my basic programmed desire to fulfill my needs no matter the circumstances or consequences. I'll keep chewing through the pages and let you know when I'm done. There is more I would love to discuss about it when I'm done. Yes I will share it with my wife after I have read it. I just don't want her to think the reason that I have been showing her heaps of affection recently is so I can score. I'm doing it because she is a woman and that is what she craves. I want her happy 
Thanks

Holland:Yea mate they don't muck around do they?! We are doing fine financially right now, the point I was trying to make, was that this would not be the case if we were on one wage. Forget about the money part of my post, it has already receive too much attention. We allocate spending money to eachother and I never spend any more on strip clubs than that. To be honest with you, I'm getting a little bored with the strippers of late. Thanks for you post mate.


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## Gonecrazy (Oct 12, 2014)

anchorwatch: I have nearly finished reading HNHN. I'm up to chapter 13. Was there something that you wanted to draw my attention too? I probably will be finished reading it by tomorrow night.

Cheers


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