# The REAL world



## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

My H and I are getting a divorce. His choice after 24 years. He thinks the "grass is greener." Anyway, I've tried it all and came up empty handed. We've been separated for over 2 months.

A few weeks ago, we met to go over our business regarding our divorce. It will be uncontested. He was happy...unlike our other meetings and encounters (phone and in person). I always thought this separation may give him a reality check. He was still in pain and unhappy but he still blamed it on the marriage. Afterall, he wasn't divorced. 

So...divorce here we come. I have no regrets and have quit fighting.

Today, my H dropped off my D's stuff after a weekend trip together. He has been sick with a cold/sore throat (usually a big baby). He come into the kitchen. *The house is alive.* My son is watching a movie and eating. My D is playing with her animals. The dogs greet him and love on him. I am happy. My D is happy. My son is happy. The dogs are happy. 

He chit chats while standing in the kitchen. How his computer doesn't work and he may have to go to the coffee shop to log on. I don't offer my computer. He stands watching the movie that my son's watching. He doesn't want to leave. More chit chat and watching the movie. I look good and I am so friendly. I offer him food to take home.

He ends up leaving....sick and alone to his empty condo. My family man....no longer has his family. Not like it used to be. 
Bit by bit reality is showing up. 

I suspect he will return after the divorce...maybe after he has his "fun." I can read him like the back of my hand!


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Maybe he'll figure it out before he goes through with it. My divorce lawyer told me that more than just a few of his clients have either backed out or had the other party back out. 

Let's hope he doesn't find anyone to "comfort" him during this time. Though I have to say it is a lot harder to "comfort" the person who left, especially when they don't have any real complaints about their ex-wife. Intelligent women will keep some distance because they'll be trying to figure out what's wrong with him and what risk he poses to *them*!

OTOH, desperate, psycho women will cling and will make him long for a normal, strong, independent woman... you know, like you, Corpus!


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Corpus, I agree that your husband will eventually know that he left a good thing. It may take a while but from what I read, it will be very hard for him to fully cut all ties with you. It seems like he still has some sort of connection (besides your children). 

I don't understand why our H's want to divorce when they have no real, legitimate, hard proof evidence or reason to divorce us. That's what puzzles me. How can you up and decide that you know what's best for your partner and what's best is for you to leave the relationship???


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

mls: All I can say there is no LOGIC behind this divorce. He is running from his own pain and unhappiness. 

We do have a connection. We always will. I've known him since I was 14 years old. No one will ever know him like me. Really.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> He doesn't want to leave. More chit chat and watching the movie. *I look good and I am so friendly.* I offer him food to take home.


LOVE IT! 

Keep looking good and being friendly CW!!!!!!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Well, I sent off my notarized petition to divorce to the attorney's office. I meet with an attorney today in which I will interview. 

Sometimes I wonder if I should "sock it to him." But other times...I want to be fair and just. Maybe the part of me doesn't want to burn bridges. I've read that attorneys warn against this trait. All in all I really do want what is fair....but whose idea of fair?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

This is our REAL world now isn't it?

Learning stuff and devloping skills we never thought we'd need. 

Having moral conversations with ourselves about divorce settlements - It is mind blowing

Fair? 

I was talking to a friend the other day she reminded me of the difference between 'fair' and 'even'. 

Are you worried about upsetting him still? 

Or is it just _sensible_ to not to do anything you'll regret later and that will inflame the situation? 

Sorry not to give any REAL advice!


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Fair concerns "stuff". Other than that, there is nothing fair about this situation. :-(


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> mls: All I can say there is no LOGIC behind this divorce. He is running from his own pain and unhappiness.
> 
> We do have a connection. We always will. I've known him since I was 14 years old. No one will ever know him like me. Really.


Ugh, this has me and my ex written all over it. It's so sad. I know him up and down inside and out. He can't stay away yet isn't man enough to admit yet that he made a mistake. It's driving me crazy! I'm like just come home you fool! We had no reason to get divorced to start with.  

I feel you Corpus. I do.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks for the support all.

I came from interviewing an attorney. He has a hot shot attorney recommended and pricey. She is to draw up the paperwork for us. However, she can only represent one of us (him). That is why I am interviewing attorneys on my behalf. 

The attorney today was pricey as well. I know I can get one for 1/2 the price. However, I am not sure if I should. 1/2 the price is a bargain if it STAYS uncontested. If it doesn't that....perhaps you get what you pay for.

I am interviewing another. Not sure how good he is..a friend recommended as she is friends with his sister. Sooooo. We'll see. I don't want to shoot myself in the foot.

RHEA: So your hubby is still showing up at your doorstep? What do you think is keeping him away?


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

My friend told me about a guy he works with who is a total push-over. It was his idea to divorce and his wife told him that since it was his idea he should pay for half her lawyer fees. He agreed! 

You could always try that route!


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

*RHEA: So your hubby is still showing up at your doorstep? What do you think is keeping him away?*

Sigh...I wish I knew. It's rediculous really. I should start my own thread again or maybe write in my old one. I just don't want my a$$ ripped from people that can't see past certain aspects you know???

I try talking to him and all I get is you ask too many questions. I'm like well you too many questionable things. I'm like if you can't stay away (gets angry at me for questioning him, says we won't talk or what not then 24 hrs later it's hey, I'm sorry) and I can't stay away, then why not be together? 

I think part of it is not wanting to admit that he made a mistake. There's too many people he'd have to admit it too...his parents, mine, mutual friends, ME, and most of all HIMSELF. When he made such a big stink about the ILYB scenario. However he's never said a bad thing about me during this entire situation...treated me not so favorable but not a "you suck at this, this is why I left" quite the opposite actually...

I wish he'd just get it together. I'm like there's nothing wrong w/being wrong. And if you know you're happier where you belong then why fight it? You know?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

mls: Our finances aren't separated. We have things as status quo. I pay the bills and live in the household as usual. We agreed to no major purchases without an agreement on both sides. We are and have always been transparent. The internet helps this a bit as we can log on and see accounts and activity. 

Isn't that the greatest? We trust each other as well!!! Time to get THAT divorce! Irony.

RHEA: Start that thread if you feel that you are confused. You H may be too prideful to admit that all that whoopla that he was moaning about was REALLY about HIM! Shocking!! Of course, another scenario is that he gets to be the "single" buy and have his honey (you) on the side. The fact that he won't talk...frustrating. I've been there...you might as well pull teeth.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Corpuswife said:


> The attorney today was pricey as well. I know I can get one for 1/2 the price. However, I am not sure if I should. 1/2 the price is a bargain if it STAYS uncontested. If it doesn't that....perhaps you get what you pay for.


now think of this: in a no-fault state, you want to contest the divorce, or some terms of it. remember, the complainant (person filing) is going to "win."

so you hire an attorney to make your case and lose. what was the point of presenting your case. divorce laws suck the big one in most states. in any other civil action, there has to be "proof" and "grounds" for the legal action.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

My H and I are aware of attorneys that want to churn the pot. My H and I met last week to discuss the terms. For all of the attorneys I told them that this case was uncontested.

My H and I do have some assets and no debt. Get this...

I visited/interviewed an attorney today. One that a friend with no assets and debts used. He charged her 1,500. I didn't tell him about her. He seems knowledgeable. Anyway. His quote for an uncontested divorce... 5K for me. He said 10K if complications arise. WHAT? He saw me coming and going! 

Now he pissed me off. I remained calm. I know how it is....I remember putting up shades in my house and got a quote. I went to the shop to talk to them about the quote. The owner said "with a house like that...this shouldn't be a problem for you." I told him..."you are telling me that I have sucker written all over my face." He was twice as expensive. No thanks! 

This is what is happening with the attorney once they hear assets. We are no Donald Trump and this is frustrating.

I keep thinking there are better things to do with my/our money than pay some attorney fees. Hawaii anyone?


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## jaybird (Sep 16, 2009)

Corpus, sounds like you are handling it all well under the circumstances. My own shopping around for lawyers does certainly put them into two categories; those that greet you with $$ symbols in their eyes and those that are trying to look out for your interest. I've spent time with both. 

Your H like my W seem to be under the same spell of believing it is all roses after a divorce and things are greener on the other side. Only time will tell, if your H is anything like my W, he likely hasn't thought it through or even knows what is in store or understands what he is giving up. Perhaps, we are both just hopefully that things will be back to normal eventually, but if you have lived with someone for that many years ... you have a very good idea who they are and how they think.

Anyways, good luck with finding a good lawyer even if uncontested.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Corpus I didnt see all your posts but did you ask for a seperation at first?? It would be like a trial to see if you both want this to end. If he really thinks the grass is greener it can be found without all the legal crap.. My wife 5 years ago did the lawyer thing. It cost us a butt load of money. I think part of the reason she never pushed this time. If you get back together at some point thats a lot of money to lose..


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## Lizzie60 (Sep 13, 2009)

Corpus.. I haven't read the whole thread ..but I was in the same situation about 15 years ago...

I was the one who left.. I rented a small (ugly) apartment... but was back at the house often.. I missed the house, the 'family' life.. etc... except HIM... 

I didn't love him anymore.. but everything else was fine.. 

It took me awhile to get used to my new 'single' life.. but I did.. and trust me I would never go back.

Good for you to get your life back.. but please do not think that he will never get a better life.. I did.. I have no regrets... 
but it takes a little while.. it's a huge life adjustment..


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

My attorney was cautious about things and complications *can* arise. So, I don't know if what he said was unreasonable. You want the best legal mind, not just the most economical lawyer.

I would tell my lawyer what I wanted to do and he'd caution me about this or that kind of response, but I knew my ex-husband very well and was able to predict what would happen very well. So, the fees didn't escalate. I never felt that because he knew we had assets that he deliberately found ways to spend our money. 

I've got another experience with a lawyer from Philadelphia who treated the money as though it were his own (different sort of case completely.) It was a wonderful experience working with him.

As for better lives... I left and mine was better the moment I left. But your situation is a lot different than mine was. And I have to believe that your husband is going to find exactly what you predict. You know him better than anyone else here. 

You are in my thoughts.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

The reason why I thought yesterday quote was outrageous was for a standard uncontested divorce for me was 5K or up to 10K contested. For my friend, the same attorney was charging 1,500 uncontested. The attorney the day before that was going to charge 2,500 uncontested and 5k contested. 

I'm not looking for the most economical but that can do their job (cross T's and dot I's) and if the worse case scenario comes about they will be able to be agressive/smart. 

LH: You are right a bunch of money to lose if we get back together. My H decided two months into the separation to get the Divorce. No changing his mind. Gotta cover my rear. 

Lizzie: He won't have a better life. He may have a good life even but better...nope. It will be an adjustment for all. I hope he has a better life...really I do. I love him and want the best for him. He said the same for me. He's just lost right now. I'm moving on.

jaybird: Are you still shopping or is your divorce final?

I have another interview next week with an attorney. Supposed to be well respected and honest. We'll see.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Corpuswife,

If it's uncontested, and he's being civil - what about using a mediator?
Our total cost, mediation, documenting the agreement, court time is going to be about $3000.00. It may not even be that much.

When I spoke to an attorney, my cost would have been 10K.

Consequently, as a result of finances and for tax reasons - we may do nothing, unless one of us wants to remarry. We have the paperwork ready to go if and when we choose. To date, we have paid about $1100.00

We got beyond the notion of "I just want to get this over with."


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

I am just curious if Lizzie has ever posted a positive comment. This is a place to help each other out, give support and sometimes just listen. No one wants to hear anything negative or feel that if they post something they will be called out on it. 
Corpus reading your positive posts have helped me a great deal and you always have great comments to my thread. Thank you


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks Believe for your support! 

Deejo...that's a good idea. Although my H already put down a retainer fee for his attorney and the paperwork has been filed. So not sure about that?????

Forget MTV's REAL WORLD:

My H called awhile ago. He asked if our D could stay the remainder of the week at my house. I said sure and why? He said his druggie landlord/acquantaince had been entering his house and eating his food and drinking. WOW! The guy said he wouldn't do it again. He did today. My H changed the locks. My H feels that when the landlord wakes up (passed out in another condo now)..that he will be angry regarding being locked out of his own condo. My H doesn't want my D to be present in any drama. My H isn't a hothead but who knows about the landlord.

I ask him if he's ok and give him some tips on diffusing the landlords anger. My H says "everthing is going wrong." I told him I was sorry that he was having it rough. We then went to say goodby...He says "ok...I love you." WHAT???

I know we love each other. But he hasn't willing said this phrase at the end of a conversation in 3-6 months. I can't remember.

This is probably a fruedian slip or he felt like the good ole days of me comforting him brought flashbacks. I found it humorous. Poor guy.

What about the REAL WORLD for 40 year olds?


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Believe said:


> I am just curious if Lizzie has ever posted a positive comment.


bitter woman is my guess. hater at best.got a man-chip on her shoulder, which makes her an expert. seen the holiday inn express tv ads? multiply by ten. she actually feigned petitioning the board to have another thread closed/poster banned. but she does post a he77uva avatar :rofl:


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## believer (Apr 22, 2008)

CW - you sound like you are holding together amazingly well through all of this. Glad to see you are moving forward with this process so you can move on with your life. You are definitely taking the "high road" in all your dealings with your husband which is not easy to do in these situations. 
Keep positive & you'll make it through this just fine. And you know where to do when you need to vent


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I don't know. From the little bit you have posted I am not so sure he's 100% convinced he wants a divorce now. His actions of moving forward are their but I don't know something tells me he's having second thoughts. Reviewing his situation and is it better.. You might see a few more ups and downs and if your at all curious to reconcille there might be an opportunity in the near future..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH: Oh I hope! I would love to reconcile under the right conditions (not for loneliness etc). 

He's been giving me mixed messages all along. He couldn't give me any messages during my LMBT stage. Communication was limited to kids/mutual business. That was best for me. Showed him how painful this really was. He was in big time pain. Worried me a bit. 

He seems a little better. I am no longer doing the LMBT since the divorce is moving foward. Paperwork was filed at the courthouse yesterday. Now we have to work out the details. 

We'll see. 

You guys are great!!! Thanks.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I'm still holding good thoughts for your marriage.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thank you dobo!


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

I too would love to see this situation turn around for you. It can happen when the person realizes that maybe it wasn't the best decision. I really think that is the case here, a bad move on your H's part and hopefully he will see it soon.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks Believe;

I can't tell you how many friends and family feel the same way.

His best friend feels the same way. He's even told me H that the single life isn't easy and really no fun. 

No matter what my H WANTS this divorce. You can't tell him anything. He's unhappy and full of anxiety. He'll figure out that once he's rid of me...that those issues haven't gone away.


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

Yes he will. Everyone says the same thing about my H. When my mom was just here visiting she kept saying I don't understand him, I don't see why he would have left. He is here all the time and she said he is so loving to you when he gives you a hug goodbye. 
Who knows what is really going on in their minds.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Husband since last week has been overall more relaxed around me.

He had some landlord problems that I gave him advice on. Who else would he turn to? 

Saw him at our D's tennis match with his parents there as well. He sat by me, spoke with me and family, kept glancing in my direction, etc. He is no longer avoiding me. 

Part of the avoidance was when I was doing LMBT for 3 months. I avoided him-no chit chat. I needed to make him feel the real pain of a true separation and I needed to gather myself. 

LMBT is over, since the divorce is full on. 

Funny thing, tonight upon leaving the tennis match..I hugged his parents goodbye. He hugged me but kept his arm at my waist a bit longer than usual. I would sometimes get a stiff hug (not warm). This was different. 

I am good at reading body language, I detect a change. It could be that he's glad that things are moving forward and relieved as well. No hopes here...just observations on this crazy ride of mine.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

You know from what I discussed from a guy who is married there are steps along the process that get very hard to do. Lets see how far he is willing to push those steps. My wife 5 years ago went as far as contacting a lawyer and drawing up papers. She NEVER served me them. She still has them to this day and she is holding them close. Yet this time she hasn't even contacted the lawyer. She brought up on our anniversary that she did her promise not to move forward until end of counseling. I said yes you did and your free to do whatever you want. Now we are almost 2 weeks later and guess what. No lawyer. Hmmm I think when spouses see the next big step in front the hesitate. If you do not provoke it might not go any further. Remember to continue to keep cool.. Your doing great.


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## 1nurse (Jan 21, 2009)

I once told that dumba$$ I was with that sane people don't get divorced to change their WHOLE LIFE. People get divorced to get out of a BAD MARRIAGE. I guess he didn't make the distinction between the two. Your husband sounds like the same way, in fact I find when people lose the security of family and a spouse to back them up usually they are worse off. My realization has already come. Even if he ever decided he made the biggest mistake of his life in the end he did me a favor. I would NEVER take him back. I'd never trust he wouldn't do this to me again or have another EA. Frankly life is too short to spend this much time and effort on someone who isn't worth it. Hopefully he enjoys the town bicycle or bar skanks he's been with. Enjoy loser. :rofl:


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH: I agree it been very tough making the "steps" toward the divorce for him. The papers have already been filed at the courthouse. We will have a meeting, when he arranges one (another step) to write down out divorce agreements. So officially, if we draw up the divorce...it can be final in 60 days. 

I've been really cool the whole time. I had told him all along that he'd have to do the work on the divorce. Tell people, tell kids, get attorney, file papers, etc. I didn't agree or didn't want it. 

I have no doubts that he will follow through. Every step of the way before these steps I thought he'd turn around. He didn't. 

1nurse: Divorcing to get out of a bad marriage yes. I totally agree with you when spouses are messed up (depression/unhappiness/work issues) I almost think, for them, the divorce is the easy way out. 

The reason stated in the divorce papers for our marriage breakdown: discord or difference in personalities! haha


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

CW, in truth he should have put " wondering if the grass is greener" as his reason stated in the papers. Ha!
He's going to be slapped in the face in reality, sooner or later. Who knows, you may well have moved on completely by then. If not, the power will be in your hands.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

wren: That would make as much sense....different personalities or "grass is greener." 

I can't wait to have the power!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Corpus divorce is the easy way out. My wife seems to think thats the tougher road. cause of all the extra work but emotionally its the easy way. Cover up how you feel instead of facing the issues. Though my wife seems to have seen the light isn't better away and isn't running as fast. Your husband might be following through cause he feels he has to save face. I don't know if you can in the future talk to him and reassure him nobody would ever think bad of you if you didn't go through with the divorce. my wife's family has said that to her and I have said that. She told me one day that cause I involved family she feels she needs to follow through with the divorce to save face. The embarrasment was too great. How can you destroy your family cause of that?? As for your husband doing all the work her needs to tell everybody involved he is ending it. I mentioned to my wife that if you did this you will look like the bad guy to EVERYBODY. I hope you can live with that. Especially your kids when they ask why mommy and daddy are not together. You will have a tough road that day..


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Corpus, what if he goes through with the divorce but changes his mind afterward? What would you do then? It happens, lord knows. I think in your case, "Fine. Get back together." There are a lot of relationships where I'd say this would be a crazy way to go. Not here.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH: You are dead on easy way out emotionally but not any other way....

dobo: I believe he will come back after the divorce....maybe 6 months-2 years. It wouldn't surprise me. Not sure how I'll react. Depends if I am dating Brad Pitt! I hear Angelina and he are on the outs! haha... or I may not be emotionally available for him. I can't say definitely. 

He'd have to come back for the right reasons.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Corpus I tend to agree with everyone else here -

it is as though he has to really 'believe' it is over before any change that will be useful to you and your relationship can occur

where will you be?

who will you be?

what will you want?

nobody knows that...you are moving as well...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Funny thing...my sister in law (H's sister) called. We get along very well. We chatted awhile. She said her dad (my H's dad) said somthing surprising the other day in a phone call she made. Their dad and mom hasn't said anything or asked questions regarding our relationship. They have said "they love us both and want us happy." Very neutral.

His Mom has told me that she doesn't understand what her son is doing or why this is happening. The Dad has said nothing and avoids any speaking regarding this matter.

My sister in law said on the phone that what my H is doing is "bullsh_t...just bullsh_t. He hopes he comes to his senses." My sister in law was blown away regarding her DAD. He is usually so neutral that anything said like this is totally out of character. In fact, she has never heard him say something this judgemental in along time (a decade).

OK. It's good to know that even his family thinks he's irrational. Does this change anything. NO. 

My H is totally distracted this weekend as he is putting on a bike race. Once this is over, he'll have more free time. I'd imagine the back to divorce meetings with tax guy and attorney will start up.

Afterall, if he wants this done in 60 days we better chop chop!!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Funny about in-laws. her sister and I talk a lot via text. She is giving me strength to continue. She will say things like remember your motivation. Heather and Dylan.. My 2 kids. Her family refuses to talk to her much cause she is so angry towards them also. Unfortunately my wife has very few people supporting her. It doesn't make my road easier. I can see something along the same lines with your husband. He is not finding many people to help him with it. That's good and bad. Good is he will think more the bad is human nature when somebody pulls you pull back harder. I hope he can see the light..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH: Good thinking on this...with human nature when somebody pulls back you pulls back harder. I had never thought of it but it's true.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Tonight after taking my D and friends to a movie, we dropped by my H's house. Well, she actually texted him that we were on our way. She needed to pickup her cell phone charger.

My H organized a big race (biking) over the weekend and had a bunch of bikers sleeping on his floor. They were from out of town. 

For some strange reason this hit me. I kept thinking that under any normal circumstance I would have helped him put on this race. I would have watched him race like I did last years and all the years prior. I would have supported him.

I had a tear in my eye. I actually want to cry now. The words that come to mind was betrayal. No he hasn't had an affair. He betrayed me by not being loyal to our vows. He promised in front of God "until death." 

He thinks he can just walk away....it was getting too difficult to stay. His friends have bailed on their marriages. Every frickin person divorces nowadays. It's a socially acceptable thing. 

I could see divorcing under MANY OTHER circumstances-addiction, abuse, adultery, constant arguing, lack of sex (over months/years), incompatible lives. I could see those reasons having merit. 

I can't figure it out...none of those have occurred. I am left empty and betrayed. 

I am the most loyal person you'd meet. However, I am no pushover. If you stab me in the back or give me great reason to drop you from my life...I will. My H is/was this way. Really, I THOUGHT he was. 

You all have caught me in a moment of weakness.


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

It's alright. We all have those moments. I however have them quite often. Tonight my D was acting up and wouldn't listen to me and all I could think of is why am I doing this alone. He wanted to start a family. SO where is he now? On Friday we met with my Son's preschool teacher because he is having a hard time letting go of me in the mornings when I drop him off. The teacher suggested to Daddy that he should try to drop him off a couple of days a week. I should have thrown him under the bus and said oh he doesn't live with us, he lives too far to do that in the morning. But did I? No. Instead I sat there and listened about how I as the mom am doing everything wrong. She actually said oh little boys adore their daddy's and everything he does is the coolest to them. I should have said oh great, so this ass is teaching his son how cool it is to run away from your responsiblities when they get too hard to deal with. Ok sorry I started to ramble.  I am sorry to hear how you are feeling tonight. Sometimes it just hits us so hard about what we are really going through. Sending you big hugs.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

believe: I know what you mean...you get to be the parent for the hard stuff now. Dropping off at preschool, disclipline, homework, chores, etc. Many of the times the non primary parent gets to have the fun weekends and don't worry about the details (important) of parenting.

It's strange how things hit you. I wake up mid morning..wide awake. All I can do is pray for my family...pray for restoration, etc. I'm like a clock each day. I wish I could sleep a full night. 

I have many fears like many of you. I ask the question if I should hurry up on the divorce that I don't want? Should I just let him guide the way, like he has prior? 

Why hurry you ask. I feel like this divorce is like a bandaid...rip it off and get it over with! Get over the pain of it all. I know that the pain won't go away. After the divorce, it will be there for months to come. If I hurry it...then I am moving forward on my personal tragedy. What if I hurry and he has a change of mind???(doubtful and my thought process throughout this whole ordeal). Could a change of mind be around the corner? It's all a part of this surreal experience...not wanting to believe.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I don't think rushing through is the best way.. It might be a temporary emotion to help ease your pain. I understand what you are trying to do though. I would just continue to go about your life best you can. Let him guide it but don't fight it. It's easier to go back BEFORE a divorce then after. Mainly cause of all the stuff involved with getting married again.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW.

Weak - never 

Vulnerable - yes -

we are all vulnerable 

I remember hearing this lovely elder from an indigenous community here speak one day and she was saying how in her culture vulnerability was not a weakness.

She said that it meant being kind of 'open' to the world - and you are definitely that - your openess and kindness shows through to everyone here who reads your posts or benefits from your feedback 

you are just very very hurt

Walking into your H's 'new' life' seeing all those people sleeping on the floor - that would have broken me as well

life is made up of this stuff 

I think you are hurting in this case because you would have liked nothing more than to help him - be part of it - and his decision has denied this 

it's not about, money. lifestyle, or even being married - the losses suffered through separation and divorce are these things and honestly they are not things that can be replaced in anyway - not at all. 

all these losses -

sometimes I feel like starting a list of losses -


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

knortoh: It's all about loss...the big losses and the little details. Things that would have never mattered a year ago...you notice them gone.

I love the story regarding the indigenous woman and vunerability. As Americans it's considered a weakness. I am sure it's the same in Australia? I love the idea that it can mean being "open" to the world.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Corpus, have you figured out why your H is thinking the "grass is greener on the other side?" Does he relish the idea of being single? Can he not handle the stress or responsibilities of being married? Is there someone else? 

I understand your thinking. Do you ever want to say to him, "what about what I want? Why must it be what you want?" I'm having trouble with this now.


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

When they come up out of no where its hard to even figure out what the hell they even want...I don't even think they know why they're doing this...I think that all they think is they must do this in order to get/do/be what they want...what I don't understand is how they just wake up one day and say hmm...think I'll get divorced...my life is not horrible, my marriage is not horrible...but I think today I'll just F it all up and see what happens.

It really KILLS me the ones that come out of no where and do this and it seems to be becoming more and more frequent it's so sad...and to have to go through this without a reason or plausable explanation just sucks...and hurts, omg it hurts...even when the divorce is final the questions don't go away nor does the pain...maybe someday they will cause you eventually just have to move on unless they come back but it is a horrible experience...I'm so sorry you're having to go through this...with no answers...I've been there. My D is final and I'm still there.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Good question mls: This is how I have it in "my mind."

I was depressed for several years-maybe 4 years ago (I can't remember beginning or end). I was a great MOM and great Wife but fuctioning with my fake smile and dead inside. During that time, I questioned out loud and internally. "Why am I unhappy?" Great family, no financial issues, we don't fight, some stress due to oldest son, fun activities. I questioned myself and my marriage. Why would he want to stay with me? What do we have in common? 

What do I do? I lost a bunch of weight 4 years ago. It didn't make me feel that much better. I started back to school...ok I felt a little better. Starting getting out more. A little better still. Went to individual counseling. Good. You get the picture...working on myself!! Gradually I was feeling restored. 

Things come to a head around May of 08. Son got into some trouble. Stressed the whole family out. As parents we were to the hilt. Invited his girlfriend to live with us for 5 months (spare room) until she went into the military. She had no where else to go. Big mistake. Let's just add some more stress.

Husband started going to bed after me. He continued his drinking at that point. This gradually started coming around...drinking for no reason (not socially). Still summer of 08. We went to Hawaii July 08 on a prepaid trip. Tried to make it fun for our D but my H and I were disconnected. I felt like the third wheel on the trip. 

Fast forward Oct. 08-market crashed. Husband is in the financial business. Hurt our portfolio..hurt everyone's portfolio. He became extremely stressed. The look on his face was depressing in itself.

I was as comforting as I could be. I tried to keep things upbeat. He was totally disconnected. He didn't intiate sex (very rare). Drinking at night continued. Oct. 08 was the straw that broke the camel's back. He already had unhappy thoughts regarding the marriage. This gave him the momentum to point the finger that his real issue was his marriage. 

After "pulling teeth" in Oct to get him to tell me "what's wrong." He admitted he was no longer attracted to me...or no longer in love. My heart sank. OK. We can fix this. In my heart I knew then that it wasn't ONLY the marriage. Other issues were present. I suggest marital or invidual counseling. He said ok. 

Nov. 08, we went on trip over Thanksgiving week. My trip from hell. No holding hand, sex all initiated by me. He couldn't even hold an erection. We had a talk. I told him how I hoped that we could work it out. How I hoped that he'd see a counselor. He said "I've been seeing one for a month." I felt a wave of relief.

He said the counselor and him were exploring things...his adoption, his work stress, our son issues, and marriage. He wasn't sure what was wrong with him but new he didn't FEEL the same about me.

In Jan.-mid March we did marriage counseling. He was detached. He show up and have homework completed (usually done in the parking lot prior). 

I beg, pleaded, and tried to convince. By mid-March he said he thought he wanted a divorce. He stay another month or so in counseling discussing the divorce and what it would look like. He NEVER made a move on it.

Not until May...until I said "I am out." I got tired of being the whipping post. The one that was trying. He all along said he had been trying. He said he'd been unhappy for a few years. He didn't have the guts to tell me. How in the hell was a I to know? Coward.

I made an August 09 date to move out. I told him..'you know how I feel, you know what I want, and if you want to come back..it's your responsibility to make the first move." I was done.

I went to Chicago to visit his sister and brother in law. They didn't want to see me move out (as I planned). They wanted me to stick in there. I told my H, when I got home..."I decided to stay and work on this marriage or course you have a choice to leave. I would like you to stay and work on it as well. How can you give up on us? Do you think Christian (friend in wheelchair) and Keith gave up on their marriage? She is going to be bedridden eventually. Do you think they are going to give up?" He thought about it...and eventually stayed for 2 whole weeks. He still "wanted out."

OK. Go. "What about separation." He agreed. He was gone in over a week. 

2 months into separation with me doing LMBT. I had to do LMBT he was chit chatting, wanting lunch, etc. He wanted to have the best of both words. It was driving me crazy. At the 2 month point, he wanted out "still." He was in pain during this separation...he didn't do anything different or explore the world..he was alone. 

Pretty much...this is where we are at...divorce has been filed. We need to work on the details. Sometimes, like yesterday, I want to call him and say "let hurry this up." Other times, like today, I will let him make his moves on his time. Afterall, this is what I've been doing for a year. 

There is no one else. The whole time I check cell records. I don't suspect it at all. He was running because he couldn't take ANY MORE stress. At one point, when he was still here my son and him had an arguement. My H ran up to our room...in the dark and was angry. He said "I just want to go and be alone." He was incapable of dealing with anything. 

I'm an easy going person and patient. Drama free. Once he had in his mind that he wanted out...there was no stopping him. He was hyperfocused on that resolution. He only cares about what he wants. No one else at this point. 

It all about the pursuit of happiness. However, he just doesn't know that it really about HIM.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Rhea, these 'senseless' ones are killers - so much hurt - so much loss for what?


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Rhea said:


> ...my life is not horrible, my marriage is not horrible...but I think today I'll just F it all up and see what happens.


I have had this thought over and over but I laughed when you stated it like that. 

Corpus, you are right there is no clear "grass is greener" situation with your H. 

My only observations are that maybe he blames himself for your depression, the issues with your son and the current financial crisis. Maybe he thinks if he removes himself from the marriage he'll not have to deal with those stresses anymore. That's not a healthy way to view things especially when those are fixable/understandable issues. 

It sounds like he is just as confused as you.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> I'm an easy going person and patient. Drama free. Once he had in his mind that he wanted out...there was no stopping him. He was hyperfocused on that resolution. He only cares about what he wants. No one else at this point.
> 
> It all about the pursuit of happiness. However, he just doesn't know that it really about HIM.



CW. It is painful to put it all down isn't it?
I feel like there are so many similarities with my story - I am also beginning to think that with my H the whole point is running away (even in his case more than running _to _someone else - it's the stress in their brain they can't stand - I see it now with my H - always looking to the quick fix to solve things - it' s like they don't have the tools to work through difficult situations - 

one thing my H has said to me is that he doesn't think he would have lasted 'as long' with anyone else but me 

and I think he correct -

we are both people who are good at making things work - working through problems 

so you were depressed - you didn't let it stop you being 'there' for your family and you took responsibility and started to work it out - not even so much perhaps because you were chasing 'happiness' but because you _wanted _ to work it out - 
with the work came peace and happiness...

I think  with these guys they are either LAZY or if I am feeling kinder - they don't have the 'tools' to cope when things are difficult....when life is sweet it is sweet 

but when it is tricky they run - it's probably a fairly human thing to do

and we cop it - at the end of the day they KNOW we are kind, good people who won't be vindictive or stop them seeing their kids....they sock it to us cause they know that we can handle the blows -

I bet your H is a bit like mine - underneath it all they are kind of in awe of us because we do have a whole range of life skills they don't have - 

I agree with mls31 

My only observations are that maybe he blames himself for your depression, the issues with your son and the current financial crisis. Maybe he thinks if he removes himself from the marriage he'll not have to deal with those stresses anymore. That's not a healthy way to view things especially when those are fixable/understandable issues.


I think with these guys there is a harsh critic inside - who really does think we will be better off without them....

doesn't stop them from being selfish bast***s though.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

knortoh said:


> I think with these guys they are either LAZY or if I am feeling kinder - they don't have the 'tools' to cope when things are difficult....when life is sweet it is sweet
> 
> I bet your H is a bit like mine - underneath it all they are kind of in awe of us because we do have a whole range of life skills they don't have -


So very true!

My H keeps saying that he's surprised that I don't hate his guts or throw his stuff on the front lawn. 

I am surprised myself I haven't taken revenge. However, what good will that do? I'm taking the high road. I know if it comes down to it, I will succeed without my H in my life. Heck, I've been alone for the majority of our relationship. I know loneliness! 

I do get a bit of satisfaction out of knowing my H will eventually realize that a good job and fun employees don't provide true happiness in life.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You both are so insightful to me. Thank you. I had never thought of him blaming himself. He was guilt ridden. Mostly, I thought, about breaking up the family. 

I just got off the phone with him. He mentioned about meetin the tax guy and the attorney this coming week. He will call them on Monday. It's weird how we can be so civil. The whole time I wanted to say..."you are selfish man that is afraid of putting the work into a relationship." I was nice.

I told him I had interviewed attorneys and was meeting with one on Wed. I told him they charged too much and it was a total waste of money. 

He's going to call back later. Oh yes, I mentioned him getting into counseling again. He used his counselor as a crisis counselor. When things get overwhelming he calls her for a spur of the moment appt. Nothing changes and no process occurs. It's just a band aid.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> You both are so insightful to me. Thank you. I had never thought of him blaming himself. He was guilt ridden. Mostly, I thought, about breaking up the family.



Hmmm it's a tricky one isn't it?

I remember distinctly thinking the last time my H left that he couldn't do the 'real' aspects of the separation because he was guilt ridden - and they are - but why do we offer this to them as an excuse? 

now I also see that my H just avoids anything difficult in the relationship - years of having me sort everything out 

so I think what I am trying to say is that they do feel guilty, they do beat themselves up - but what happens then?

I know that my H has said that his counsellor tells him not to beat himself up ...it is pointless - and it is 

but it's also a bit of a red herring - 

sorry I am confused - better think about this a bit more


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I think his counselor has said the same about him....not to beat himself up!

There is a very legit reason why they beat themselves up. They should be guilt ridden. When you do something wrong you should have guilt. 

I did tell him in today's conversation that "had I know several years ago, that this was going to happen... I would have chosen a more lucrative field of work." hint: I am getting scr_wed!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

My wife is so stressed doing this and I believe its because she knows she is doing wrong but doesn't know how to save face. She has already told me she is afraid how it looks if she doesn't follow through. Your husband I think might feel same way. If there was a way of slipping something about not to worry what it looks like I would.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Oh yes, I will say it outright. No problem. However, I just don't think he's at that point. He's moving forward. I don't think he really cares what it looks like at this point. In his words, "he doesn't give a f...."


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yes same with my H.

He actually has tied this to the idea that he has 'cared too much about what people think' 

he said to me yesterday that he wasn't very popular at his new school - 

but that he didn't care (if you don't care why tell me?) 

it must be dizzying to have this 'freedom' 

they're nuts !


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Hey I don't want freedom.  See the one running thinks the grass is greener and no matter how brown it is they will think its greener cause the prospect of facing the issues is too great. They could be poor. lonely and hungry but they are on their own.  Less emotional pain. I still don't know how to speed up the pain process. I can't wait..


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

It is nice to feel that I am not alone going through all this crap, however it saddens me to think that so many good people are going through this crap. I wish I could be a fly on the wall and see what my H is really going through, cause he always keeps it together when he is here and around the kids. I could have never walked out of this house like he has several times while the kids are crying and screaming for him. I hope that did hurt! Yes they should beat themselves up or at least let us do it for them  I hope tomorrow brings us all renewed hope and at least a smile. Good Night and sweet dreams.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

For me its the same old routine. My wife is very affected by the kids and the reason she is in the house still. She is starting to know the effects of me not around with the kids.. See the problems are when you have 2 people it is rare to get both who are determined to stay together forever. There seems to be one that is weaker then the other. Thinking something outside is better. You fell in love and wanted to be with that person when you got married. The facts are they are still that person but time and wounds have changed it. This is why it's so hard to stay married. You lose what you had.. Thats the work needed to keep that in front.. I wish all to have more determination..


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I feel really bad for all of you guys... Not much constructive to add...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I know dobo...me either. 

Kind of nice to vent though!!!!


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Know what is sad?

No time to be sad - no time to grieve 

too much crap to sort through.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

More about the REAL WORLD:

I had a divorces support group meeting tonight. I had arranged for my H to pick up my D after tennis practice. 

She is usually starving and I wouldn't be able to have dinner ready. I asked my son to cook dinner before she got home. He loves to cook and jumped at the chance. I told both kids to invite their dad to eat with them at my house. He did.

I got a call tonight thanking me for having the kids invite him over. He got to spend some time with them and he appreciated my thoughtfulness. He then went to tell me in an angry voice how our son got a ticket (one of those camera lights) and it's under his name. OK. He then was angry the cell company sent him another connection for his laptop to get wireless. He's had nothing but problems and the new one isn't working. He's spent countless hours.....yadayadayada. 

I told him "I am sorry you are having a tough time with it." He said "it's all my f____in fault. I deserve this. I deserve everything wrong that happens to me!" I just listened. He thanked me again. And I hung up.

He is so messed up. Blaming the marriage for his unhappiness. Maybe his unhappiness cause the marriage to go sour? I could just hug him.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> More about the REAL WORLD:
> 
> I told him "I am sorry you are having a tough time with it." He said "it's all my f____in fault. I deserve this. I deserve everything wrong that happens to me!" I just listened. He thanked me again. And I hung up.
> 
> He is so messed up. Blaming the marriage for his unhappiness. Maybe his unhappiness cause the marriage to go sour? I could just hug him.


When my H left the first time and he was miserabel I think he took some comfort in the fact that he was suffering -
I remember him saying EXACTLY the same thing -
"I deserve to this" "I deserve to have a horrible XMAS day" etc .

not quite sure what this dynamic is -

but in the end it's all about them isn't it?


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Do they want you to comfort them and tell them, "No, hun, you don't deserve this...."?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

knortoh: It's amazing how we have similiar stories. Many of us do. I suppose it's human nature?

dobo: I think they would like comfort. I don't comfort him and tell him "it's going to be ok. You don't deserve this. " I just tell him "I am sorry things are tough." I just listen. 

I have more than once told him to get help. I should say suggested. He knows I see someone regularly and I tell him it's important to become consistent in counseling. He knows. 

Why can't he dig deep? Why can't he attend counseling on a regular basis. I think, it's because deep down, he thinks the root of his problems are his marriage.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Some people are weak and rather run then face their issues. Human nature to blame before to look at yourself. I am battling this also why I want my wife to read love dare. She keeps telling me she will this weekend. I need her to see love the way it should be. Your husband sounds amer and we all want them to wake up and get it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

okay *anyone have any thoughts on this:* 
CW I think in a recent post you said something like "nothing has changed throughout this except me" 

and I too am struck by the fact that despite what my H and I are going through - everything is the same -

remember thinking - (as regards my husband and the crap way he handles everything: 

"can't do the marriage, can't do the separation" 

same same 

now in our dealings - I am struck by the way he 'expects' me to sort things out and I try nearly 24/7 to 'work things out'. 

same same

he wants us to be kind and considerate to eachother because we always have been....

same same 


but it's not the same same is it?

how do I learn to arrest the 'same same' dynamic when it is no longer serving me?

is it just that I still long for the comfort of a dialogue a relationship that is no longer -

help!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

I feel the same way. My H and I talk all the time and I am still expected to handle things and be there all the time. But your right it is no longer serving me. I guess that is part of letting go and I obviously have not done so.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Another call: H called to talk about appointment with a tax guy.

I gave him a "talk." Told him many things that I hadn't said (believe or not). I asked him if he was any happier than when he moved out. "Not really...some" he said. "So if you're not much happier after you left, then how do you think things will change after the divorce?" I asked.

I asked him if he was ready for this to happen. He said "yeah." He asked me the same.....I said "yesterday." He paused (surprised).

"Yesterday...because this divorce will help give you resolution Craig. Once you are divorced and the paperwork is done, you will then be able to come to a conclusion that all along it wasn't only ME that you were unhappy with. It was you" I added.

"You have blamed me from the beginning for your unhappiness. What you have failed to do is dig deep. You kept yourself busy with business and biking. You kept yourself from dealing with yourself and life. We make our happiness Craig. We can't look for others or blame others for our lack of...it's all us. I love you and care about what happens to you. I don't wish to hurt your feelings and lecture you, but I do really care. I love you unconditionally. If you need to divorce me to find yourself, then divorce my ass. Even if you divorce me and f____ some other woman, I don't give a sh_t. You will still be unhappy if you don't dig deep." 

He listened and didn't have much to say. He said he didn't want to talk anymore. I said...don't "run." Tell me what you feel...do you disagree? He didn't say much. He isn't happy. He said I told you I loved you 2 days ago (it wasn't a Fruedian slip) and I meant it.

If you aren't any happier now, after the separation....how will you be happier later. What will be the difference? Just to note: He has been calling me complaining about this or that. He said yesterday and today..."I know I deserve anything bad that happens to me." He is so depressed and down on himself.

Oh yes, when I said the "after the divorce and you can f____ some woman. " He said something about "my dating." I KNEW it had gotten to him. He HATES that idea. Of course, I am not. 

Whatever.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Wow! You go girl!

Those were some powerful words spoken. I think you shook him. Or at least you would have shook me up. 

I read Dr. Phil's (don't laugh) Relationship Rescue book and it made a very good point that if you're unhappy you can't sit around waiting for your spouse or someone else to make you happy. Only you can make you happy. That hit home with me. 

What did your H say when you said "if you're not happy now, what makes you think you'll be happy when we divorce?"


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

mls31: I felt powerful when I said them. I meant all of them. He's a shaken man already. I do love him powerfully. Enough to let him go. God will take care of the rest.

I've also read the Relationship Rescue book. haha. I've read 10-12 relationship books and 4 books on divorce. Needless to say....I'm a well rounded self-help woman!

Happiness is within. I learned that recently. I was always looking for happiness but you have to make your own (I found). Given the country that I live in, the opportunities that I have, the family that I've been blessed with, the health that I have kept, there is no room for pity. I have a good life. Just a screwed up H.

For the most part my H...didn't say much. He never has much to say. I mostly feel like he's a deer in the headlights. I mostly give him these things as "food for thought." He thanked me, jokingly, for "feeding" him. I've always been a deep thinker and analyzed things. My nature. He knows me well. 

He has always told me..."you know I really do listen to you....you always have good advice." 

I never realized, over the years, how much I GUIDED my family. That may be one of the reasons why he's LOST at the moment. He's lost without a guide. Maybe I was too much of a guide for my H. He relied too much on me, when life issues got rough. He never learned to deal.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW you are so clear with this stuff, and you know that you are on the money.

i think when they go quiet and don't say anything you can be pretty sure they are listening

they don't respond cause they can't (well in my H's case that's so) 

too much -

he's listening to you and he is in awe of you remember - you are so much more together than him -

what can he say? 

I am hoping that you feel empowered - it is important that you say this - 

I am guessing that the LMBT didn't allow you this sort of dialogue -

you're also right - move it on - get it to wherever it is going.....


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW our posts crossed - but amazing - 
I am sure that we are similar women with similar husbands...

and WE WILL BE HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

Wow...I seem to be reliving everything I just went through in you two ladies posts.... =(


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

You are a strong women CW.. I commend you on being able to control your frustration and temper and get to the point in an intelligent way...:smthumbup:

Let him ponder what you said now.. It will allow him to think... It's not going to be like a lightbulb going off but if he has peace he will be able to start to miss you more.. Your doing a great job. It will pay off in the long run..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You guys are great and supportive! What would I have done without the internet (dark ages)!!

I know it's on his mind. He's a sensitive person and when people say things, that make sense, it gets carried with him.

I do feel empowered and at the same time with a core of sadness. I give off an aura of strength but that is the way I NEED to come off. If I come off as a weak person, then it helps no person. My H will consider me weak and unattractive. My kids will feel sorry for me. And...I will wallow in self pity and I'm too scared that I won't dig myself out of it.

knortoh: LMBT didn't allow much if any dialogue. So this was all brewing in my mind. I had to tell him this...even if he felt I was trying to stop the divorce. Although, I don't think it came across as me begging/pleading??? It was more of a statement of how I see things. I didn't ask for him to reconsider.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I admire you so much, Corpus. 

Do you think that your husband is pursuing divorce because it is the only thing he can think to do to prove that he has any control over his life? He may be confusing control with happiness. He's seeing that control doesn't equal happiness, however, and maybe that confuses him, too.

Is there something he feels the marriage has prevented him from doing? 

Maybe you are right. Maybe you did mother him too much, guide him too much. Maybe he hasn't had the opportunity to grow up. And maybe that's what he's trying to do in a somewhat destructive way.

He really does need to find a counselor that he can trust and that he wants to explore things with. He's so ripe for a breakthrough. But he has to reach a lower point, I guess.


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

"I never realized, over the years, how much I GUIDED my family."

CW, can you expound on that statement? Were you the dominant voice in the family? Were you the one who made the big decisions?


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> .
> 
> I do feel empowered and at the same time with a core of sadness. I give off an aura of strength but that is the way I NEED to come off. If I come off as a weak person, then it helps no person. My H will consider me weak and unattractive. My kids will feel sorry for me. And...I will wallow in self pity and I'm too scared that I won't dig myself out of it..


That is called self-esteem.. You are feeling the power of taking control of your emotions and guiding them instead of letting it guide you.. It is very hard to do but if you are able to continue to do it your husband might look at you differently..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

dobo: I think that part of my H pursuing the divorce is the control. He knows he's unhappy and in pain. What else can he do? It's too painful to look inside and dig deep. 

He does have a counselor. He used to see her on a regular basis...he came to a conclusion that divorce was the answer. He now sees her only during bouts of crisis. Which is usually a useless thing as far as moving forward. Crisis counseling is merely a bandaid.

D8zed: A dominant voice. Yes I was. Let me clarify that I always asked and wanted his input. He always naturally deferred to me. I would sometimes feel like I was begging for an opinion. Even on where to eat...OMG he often had no opinion. Highly frustrating. I am not a bossy person and very patient. However, we always worked at a team in our marriage. I took care of certain things/decisions and he took care of others. We always sought each others input.

FYI: I retained an attorney today. Finally..the third one I interviewed. He was excellent and very caring. I felt sad and cried on the way home as it was my first move toward the divorce. A surrender if you wish. My H doesn't know yet. That attorney said the paperwork already drawn was as unagressive that you can get. He was also surprised at how well we get along. He says it's highly unusual, during divorce process, where the wife invited the husband over for dinner with the kids at her house (while she's out). His eyes popped open when I told him. 

After a few more tidbits of info. He said you are right.....I think he may end up regretting this divorce. What can I say...join the club!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW,

Glad you got the attorney. So how many are in the club now? 10? Just wish I could tell you when.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> D8zed: A dominant voice. Yes I was. Let me clarify that I always asked and wanted his input. He always naturally deferred to me. I would sometimes feel like I was begging for an opinion. Even on where to eat...OMG he often had no opinion. Highly frustrating. I am not a bossy person and very patient. However, we always worked at a team in our marriage. I took care of certain things/decisions and he took care of others. We always sought each others input.


CW I am just about jumping out of my seat here
SAME SAME SAME with us -
especially with where to eat etc.....
"I don't care you decide"
he would sometimes get changed 3 times before he went to work - asking me each time which shirthe should wear....
and same with me I am not Bossy and also patient - hey would we last 2 weeks in a relationship with these guys without parience????


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

HAHA knortoh! Your are my twin relationship sister! My H also would ask me..."which one?" OMG.

A strange phone call from my H this afternoon. As you can see, he is feeling like his old self (call/chit chat self). 

Here's the strangeness part of the call:

Part I.

Me: I want to let you know I hired an attorney (good one).
Him: Oh, he's good.
Me: Well, I was a little defensive when you hired Ann. She has a reputation for being a bulldog. I didn't want to hire poodle to fight a bulldog.
Him: (laughing)

Part II

Him: I hope we can have more phone calls like this (long conversation/easy to talk)
Me: You ARE very good at talking about the BUSINESS of divorce.
When it comes to talking about the relationship you are like a can of coke. 
Him: How so?
Me: You are all bottled up. But once the can get's shaken and you pop the top... it fizzes all over the place.
Him: (laughing)

How about I start my own divorcee comedian act? haha


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I am still confused as to what he wants from here on out. Its almost like he is looking to fight to justify leaving but also at times he sounds lonely. Tell him to get some meds. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

He wants to divorce. He feels unhappy and depressed and unattracted to me and no longer "in love."

The problem is he doesn't really have justification for leaving. The above reasons listed aren't really justification by my standards. I know the family doesn't agree with him and he has (1) friend that he confides in that LOVES me. I've asked his friend to keep an "eye" on him.

He is very lonely. He is very sad and guilt ridden (breaking up the family). He can't help his feelings...they are there. He doesn't know how to deal with things. He is running on feelings. 

He needs something alright.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

"in love" feeling comes and goes. That's why when you meet a new person you have that lust.. It's not something that is the core of a relationship.. If we all could have that in love feeling then there would be less divorces. Facts are thats very hard to keep up unless you continue to nurture it. So if he's looking for that he will search forever. Kind of like a junkie looking for his next high. Ten again he's not being rational.. So that goes right out the window.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

I can just 'see' and 'hear' that conversation between you and your H.

we know them so well

how can that want to lose that familiarity ?

don't get it.....................


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Today was the pits...

My 20 year old son and I discovered that new friend of his is a thief. He stole from me a few times (cash) and last night stole my son's wallet and got $20 out of another guy's wallet. 

Long story short. I had previously asked my son not to invite this kid over..bad vibe. He did last night and guess what happened? I was so angry with my son....very. He was upset at how irate I was...he was upset how his wallet was stolen. I was upset as well. WE clashed. He missed work today (newer job) and his first paycheck was stolen (he's cashed it already that night).

Spent the day giving police reports...at the dmv getting a license and getting depressed. 

At first I didn't know who was stealing from me. I thought they had my garage code. So I had planned on sleeping on the couch with a handgun. I thought it was a kid but ended up figuring it out.

My H tried to offer help. I wouldn't accept. He came over to pick up daughter. I was very stand offish. I would tell he was offset as well (caught him rolling his eyes). 

Whatever jerk! I'd wish he'd go away and didn't have to look at him sometimes. It's just a reminder of my heartache.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

What do you think?

I called the H and apologized for my standoffish behavior. It really isn't like me to be that way...I was still stressed and decompressing.

He called me back and thanked me. He understood. He asked me if I wanted to come over and eat with our D and him. I told him I already ate (not really). Then he said you can come over and hang and have a drink. I said "no thanks...I am fine." 

Remember my H is an extremely nice guy. I am not taking this as anything but him being a good human being.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

It's these actions by your H that totally confuse me. 

He wants you to come over, have a drink and hang out. It's like he wants you to keep him company and be big buddies. 

What is with this friendship crap!?!

I think you did a good job by apologizing and telling him that you are essentially fine by yourself. This shows him that you can manage without him. However, it seems clear he's having a lot of trouble managing without you.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

mls: It's very clear he has a difficult time managing. 

In the old days, my H would have been reeling over today's events. 

He doesn't like to deal with conflict remember?

Anyway, the friendship crap sucks? All it does is to lend me hope on borrowed time. The divorce is chugging along.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

I could kill these guys for messing with the boundaries - they have no feelings and so don't understand the heartache


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

So what happens to these fools when they realize they are unhappy with themselves and not their relationships?
I'm sorry CW.


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## al_in_al (Feb 4, 2009)

> What is with this friendship crap!?!


Add me to the club of people in a similar position. I've been following your story, and have so many times wanted to comment about my husband doing the same thing. We don't have kids though, which makes some things easier. 

My husband also wants to be my friend. I tried it, and it was just too heartbreaking for me. When I told him I couldn't be friends with him, he accused me of seeing things in black and white, basically told me I was wrong for not wanting to be friends. Why can't these guys understand how much it hurts us to have these 'friendly' interactions with them? He also keeps overstepping the boundaries I set - like going into the house without my permission (its not that I always say no, but he always just does what he wants). Then he blames me for being too structured when I call him on not respecting me. Ugh. And yet, he still is a nice guy, too. 

I finally told him that he needed to decide if we were going to work on it or if it was over. He said over, if I was going to force it. As hard as that was, it is nice to have very very limited contact right now. It is really helping me move on and be happier in the rest of my life (still unhappy about the marriage being over, of course). He still claims to be undecided, but he told me it was over and that is really what I have to believe. 

He has said that he knows that I am not his problem, but I'm not sure he REALLY knows.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

al in al: Welcome to our club that is growing! Grrr.

A good friend of mines wife has been having an affair. She just couldn't "get it" why they could not live together, raise the kids, and have their seperate lives! She said he was being "selfish." 

Pure and simple justification! She wants both worlds doesn't she? 
Guess what...7 months later she is begging to stay and jump through hoops to restore their marriage. He's moving out without her. He still loves her and has TRIED. However, she needs to prove herself in a long term fashion. IN the past, she's continued contact with the BF. My friend is setting FIRM boundaries (finally) and she is reeling!!

The fact is they will point fingers-blame-justify their behavior as to why they CAN'T stay. They just won't/can't do the work that's needed to build a better relationship. It's too painful for them to stay...they wan't more but there isn't MORE! What they get is MORE of the SAME when they go out into the world!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

100% agree thats why my wife is still in the house. Wants her kids.. Her comfort.. Her less stress. My wife is afraid to see life on her own cause her family scared her to death. Now on the fence she will have to make a move eventually. Hopefully positive or this will be dragged out further..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I saw my H at my D's tennis match. We stood together talking about various things (mostly kids/work/attorneys). 

I have a strained neck (after putting my pants on this morning-ha). Anyway, he noticed that I was rubbing it. He offered to give me a massage! I said "no I am oK. He said "really, I don't mind." Anyway, I turned down the offer and told him jokingly how I hurt it getting dressed. 

Tomorrow is by b-day and I'm going out with friends tonight. He offered to drive me home if I drank too much. I told him "Im not much of a drinker." He said he didn't know if I'd changed. 

On and off, I could tell he woud check me out. You know, ladies, how you can sense the "look." 

When I went to leave I said goodbye to my D and my H carried my chair to the car. I told him thank you and he said something else (another look/check out) and then we hugged. He told me happy pre birthday and I left).

Again, he's always been a nice and kind guy. He has no reason not to be nice and kind to me. 

Am I reading too much into these actions/words? Am I overanalyzing again? It's those damn mixed messages. Man.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Damn these mixed messages -

my H still checks me out... after all we have been through 

but I find that amazing offering to rub your neck????????

oh CW I just want to tell you to look out for yourself - and protect yourself - I think you will you are smart with this stuff...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

knortoh: When you say lookout for myself...exactly what do you mean? Being taken advantage of.... or manipulated?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Oh CW

I just meant I hope you can keep those boundaries up....I don't think these guys do this on purpose - they can't help themselves checking us out...it is so clumsy!

we all manipulate things to a certain extent - and I don't get the feeling your H is manipulative or malicious in any way 


I think what I meant was it is just more evidence that he hasn't 'separated' .....
and while he is in this ambiguous place (i.e filing for divorce but not fully separated) and while you are seeing eachother on a 'friendly' basis I feel as though you are at risk of having your feelings hurt again....and again 
(if he still so emotionally detached/ bereft/ thwarted etc) 

so it's just about you and looking after yourself -


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I can keep the boundaries..you are right. I don't think he does this on purpose. He just goes with his feelings! As you know they run on "feelings." 

No..he isn't manipulative at all. In fact, I don't think he's capable. It's not his nature. Mr. nice guy.

Knortoh...I have to say you are insightful. I DO run the risk of having my feelings hurt. He isn't aware of the "messages" that he sends to me. That was why LMBT was so helpful to me. It allowed me to detach. I couldn't detect which way was up.

I spent so much time during our pre-separation phase feeding on the mixed messages. Afterall, an offer of a back rub must mean he was "interested" right? It WAS like that for many years. This year...it could me JUST what it is...a back rub (no more and no less). 

I have clear verbal message. I AM divorcing you.

I have a mixed messages with VERBAL and BODY LANGUAGE. 

Legally I have to protect myself.

Emotionally I have to protect myself. I have to assume that any action that he has towards me, that might be inferred as loving or caring or attraction, is just his way or releasing guilt and still loving me as a person.

Unless he tell me something else and ceases for follow through on the divorce. I HAVE to assume that the divorce is occuring. 

It's the absolute craziest thing that I've ever seen. I've known many divorced couples (as we all have) and I have never known a couple during the divorce process to behave as we do!!


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yes I am afraid you are correct - at best you have mixed messages - nothing unequivicol - now we are used to this with these guys - but being ambiguous is the number one indicator of passive agressive behaviour. 

I have the recent experience with my H coming back -

calling me after a night of intense passion saying it was the 'best night of his life' ...and then 2 months later going again...

he did this to me 

I could have protected myself against this (maybe) by having my boundaries set - but I don't know it happened as it happened....

I tend to think now that it _precisley_ because they are so emtionally bereft they can do this stuff 

but as you also know I am only capable of reading this stuff through my stuff - but I do feel as though we are 'sisters' of sorts and I don't think I have any trouble empathising with your current place. 

there is another way of looking at it and I think you mention it -

is he just getting to 'break-up' the easy way with you?

it's a double edged sword isn't?

I feel exactly the same way with my H - I kind of want to see him and be nice and share stories about the kids etc...and partly my motivation is to make him remember what he is missing - but then I think but I am giving it to him...he is getting to leave and **** me over AND get the pats of the relationship he had no problem with - 

so I can only do it if I am doing it for me....

and what does that mean?

I've never been good at knowing that...

CW we are not out of the woods yet -

also I have been thinking that my gut instinct tells me that my H does love me and that he is making a whopping mistake -
but that isn't going to change what is going to happen -
I can't make something happen here - 
push, pull, love, ignore....he has left me 
it is Saturday morning and I am alone - TRUTH
I went to a party last night and two sleezy guys thought it was fine to hit on me 'cause my H wasn't there - TRUTH 
where's my H this morning ?
what's he doing" 
who knows?


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

I hate the mixed messages and constantly questioning yourself.
He's confused so he's sending confusing signals. What does he expect of you?
I don't get it. It's like the kid from _Dan in Real Life_ says, "love is not a feeling, it's an ability."


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Your STBX drives me crazy, Corpus. It is so clear he loves you and he is in love with you. Why on Earth can't he see it??


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

knortoh: You always get me to thinking. Your statement "is he just getting to 'break-up' the easy way with you?" Rung a bell.

Is he just exiting the easy/no drama/no conflict way? Food for thought.


dobo: I am crazy right now.  You aren't the only one! haha

Today is my birthday. My H dropped my D at the house around noon bearing gifts. I expected that he'd take my D shopping for me. She gave me her gift (flip flops and candle). 

He then gave me HIS gift. I nice jounal with Christian saying/quotes on each page. The card read..."Have a great birthday weekend." C This was actually a surprise.

He didn't give me an anniversary present/card at the end of last year or an Valentines card/present or a mother's day gift (the kids did). This is my first gift/card since Christmas.

I keep thinking that he thinks we are on the "friends" track. He'd agree that he loves me. Perhaps like a friend. But he does check my breasts out alot?? Plus, he has smirking that he beginning to do. Maybe he's in such a good mood that he can't contain himself-he's finally getting his divorce? Sheeesh.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Happy Birthday CW!!!!!!!!!

A gift - that is nice -

gee I really don't get it either -

no wonder you are going crazy 

I can't help thinking that your situation always sounds quite optimistic - even though it is nuts -

I think I tend to project my stuff too much onto you -

my H is a pretty messed up guy 

I think your fella has just gone off the rails...

big difference


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thank you knortoh: I am trying my best to make it a good one. It's the first one without my H. I'd imagine alot of firsts will be coming...first Thanksgiving, first Christmas, etc.

Anyway, you see why I am crazy. I think my H, for some odd reason is starting to break free of his craziness. The market is recovering. He no longer has to deal with kids on a daily basis. He can nap or bike or drink when he feels. 

But all of this "recovering" from his craziness is timed to the fact when I began to converse with him like pre-separation days and not LMBT. I also began my friendly banter when I came to the conclusion that the divorce was moving forward and I not longer needed LMBT. She basically he felt comfortable moving forward and then getting the luxury to communicate with me as before. 

He looks and sounds better than he has in months or even a year. I can't figure it out. 

I still think he's messed up but MAYBE thinking about getting on the rails again. 

My mom was here when he dropped off my d and my present. He stayed for awhile. He gave me a warm hug goodbye. I'm sure my mom is thinking WHAT?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Hmmm you are right

you've taken the pressure off him 

and I know what you mean -

it just 'feels' like what should be done doesn't it?

no point fighting..........

you are so strong and so clear and clear about your love -

I am going to try and take some inspiration from you....................

you always get me thinking as well!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I've taken the pressure off of him. He knows I am friendly now and loves that.

He's taken the pressure off of himself....as most can see.

I love him regardless if he leaves me and divorces. Which...is happening. I know he loves me. Welcome to crazytown. 

He'll end up wanting me back at some point. I know I'm a broken record regarding my clarity. If I am wrong, then I will doubt my intuition for the rest of my life.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Wonderful post!

I am not nearly as clear as you - but I do know my H loves me as well!

Corpus can I ask you about your future?
How are planning things now?
What do you look forward to ?
I know you do some volunteer work etc...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

This is the first time you mention with your own clarity that you realize that your H loves you! Just pointing that out....

My future: 
Get a job. Struggling with that one-economy isn't fun here.

Get a house. Probably sooner than later. Already have one in mind.

I look forward to peace and showing my H, along the way, what a "catch" I am. I look forward to finding someone to love me along the way. I won't be looking seriously for along while. I still have my H in my heart. However, there will be a period of time where I will need to mend it. 

Serve others. Volunteering for church and another organization.

Get a career (not job). My career path isn't very open as of now. It will be later but in the meantime I need a job.

I also looking forward to building relationships with people who care about one another and aren't superficial. 

Getting closer to God. 

What about your plans on the future knortoh???


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Thanks CW and I do know he loves me. 
But no-one I know thinks this means that he will come back. The main reason I _don't_ think he'll come back is because he would be scared of hurting me again. Truly.

It was good to hear your plans.

I haven't been devloping mine very actively.

I guess number 1 is sort out the financial side of separation. 
Once I have some idea (medium and long term) I'll knw whether it is really feasible to keep this house.....

2) if I can keep I am going to start some renovations that I can do myself - work in the garden, paint, give it the love and attention that a family home deserves.

3) If I can't I'll find the best rental that I can - hopefully long-term (very tricky here) and make it a happy place - 

4) wherever I am I want to start having friends over for dinner.
I really deferred to my H when it came to cooking and lost all confidence - s

5) job wise - tricky also I have a great job - but it is only .5 . I have just picked up some casual work to give me some options for the upcoming birthdays of my kids....I would like to stay where I am - I work right next door to my kids school and I find my job rewarding - I am not terribly career driven but perhaps I will find some more energy for that as the kids get older?

6)I want to plan and take my kids for some holidays. My H always played up on holidays - and I never understood why.
I have recently 'won' some money at work and although I could put it toward the house I think I will spend half of it on taking the kids to the beach for a week before Christmas. 

7) love? who knows - like you I'd like to find someone to hang out with - nothing serious...but won't be 'looking' for a while...

8) keep on being a great mother - make sure my house is full of fun and inspiration and creativity and moments of peace..music, art, movies - all the good stuff in life 

that's about for now -

and yes following the good people in life - being around those who are 'true'....


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

You guys have some excellent goals in mind. 

I agree that you need to move on and also prove to your H's what a catch you are and what he is missing. 

If you follow those goals I think you'll have no problems finding someone new who loves you and cares for you the way our H's should be now. 

I hope I can follow through with my goals. Eventually I want to find someone to share my life with too. I'm only 27. I'm afraid I'll end up being the single, crazy cat lady! But I've got a long road ahead before I can even consider dating again.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

I am a crazy cat lady already. Your posts have given me a light bulb moment! I have always taken care of the bills, this household, holidays, community responsibilities,crises and our relationship. I still do all those things. He has an apt. He has no responsibilties other than going to work daily. No wonder he's happy as a clam and won't talk about how long he's going to rent this place. Am I contributing to this separation even though I don't want it?
I don't think we're crazy. I think we are hurting and feeling disposable!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Ladies: It's so great to hear some positive things going on or at leat for our future!! 

Man...I know we all have fears! Crazy cat lady is funny though-you aren't the only one MLS31 that has THAT fear!! Being that you are 27 the odds are highly likely that you will/if you want will find another. 

Wren: Isn't this so true...they run and we pick up the pieces. Yours is happy? Mine hasn't been happy since he left...he is only showing improvement during the last few weeks. THAT was only when I really started communicating with him again and being OPEN! Kind of ironic.

Knortoh: It's funny you ast first said you didn't have any active plans. However, you DO have plans. Some great plans of actions. It's terrific that you love your job and so close. The ideal situation with young children. Are there no options for full time with the same job (even in the future)? It would be great to keep what you have and love...


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yes talking about plans has put me in a good state of mind -reminds me of how I have lived my life - reminds me of my life philosophy which I thought he had 'stolen' from me.....


crazy cat ladies are the best people that I know !

my eldest son wants a rat for his birthday - a rat! I would much rather have a CAT!

We'll all find someone else if we want to -

when you are really together you just attract people to you -
when you are happy with yourself - happy to be alone - 
that's when you attract people...

I was 27 when I met my H and I was together and happy - I think anyone would have fallen for me...

now we all have a lot of sadness in our hearts right now -
but no one goes through life without suffering - if it wasn't this (messed up guys) it would be something else....
and it's so true what they say - suffering is a gift 
I don't know about you guys but I have noticed that I am so much more open -
CW I think I was talking to you about this 
"vulnerable" 
and this allows you to let others in - 

ahh think I am running out of philosophy for today....
but it great to start laughing when i read these posts instead of crying!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I'd stick to the CAT anyday knortoh. I don't like the tails of rats. Although, I hear they are very smart. 

Making plans does start to get exciting. In fact, when I don't have a kid or two....it's even strange to NOT have to cook. I can eat cereal or junk food and be perfectly happy. I really don't like to cook as I had to for 24 years. This is a nice break.

I can watch on tv whatever I want. Although I haven't watched much tv since he left..?? I can go to sleep and spread out. Although, I STILL stay on my side. I can sleep in without feeling guilty. It's great to not have to worry if he's upset or negative or moody. It's his problem now. 

Life is too short to remain in a marriage where the other person is doing you a "favor." I don't want someone being guilted to staying with me. I want to be loved by someone who thinks I am the best wife ever! I was lucky that I felt this way for 23 years. Just having this sour relationship for 1 year makes me appreciate the life that I had lost.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Completely agree about cooking - I live on bananas and almonds when my kids aren't here! healthy and no cooking at all....all the more time for sewing! 

and I so agree - how insulting to feel like you are with someone who is 'settling' 

and I was also thinking same thing last night - I always thought I had a great life and was lucky - it was _his _lie not mine..no need to take that on board either...

let's get on with our lives...


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> Wren: Isn't this so true...they run and we pick up the pieces. Yours is happy? Mine hasn't been happy since he left...he is only showing improvement during the last few weeks. THAT was only when I really started communicating with him again and being OPEN! Kind of ironic.


Happy? Nah. Just hiding...
Yes, ironic indeed!


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## al_in_al (Feb 4, 2009)

wren said:


> I am a crazy cat lady already. Your posts have given me a light bulb moment! I have always taken care of the bills, this household, holidays, community responsibilities,crises and our relationship. I still do all those things. He has an apt. He has no responsibilties other than going to work daily. No wonder he's happy as a clam and won't talk about how long he's going to rent this place. Am I contributing to this separation even though I don't want it?
> I don't think we're crazy. I think we are hurting and feeling disposable!


I so agree - this used to make me so upset - how come he gets to leave me with the marriage and house and the cats and bills (ALL THINGS HE WANTED, ALL THINGS HE PUSHED FOR!) - and go be carefree because he doesn't want any of it any more. Makes me want to scream, I mean, was it all just a lie? Why did he do all of that, if he didn't really want it? I guess I'm still upset about it, but I figure that he must have some problems, too.

Disposable is right, I never thought to use that word before, but he just wanted to dispose of his life, including me.

I saw my husband for the first time in 7 weeks today. We were both in the grocery store at the same time. I turned down an aisle, and there he was. So I flipped him off as I walked by! I'm kind of sorry I did it because it's so childish, but it was an honest reaction to the shock I felt at seeing him. And I have mentally flipped him off many times since he left  I think he was there with the woman he was having an emotional affair with - but I didn't stick around to find out.

So, that was a setback today. I had been doing pretty well - looking forward to the future. I'll probably be back there tomorrow, but tonight I'm just lonely.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

al_in_al said:


> I saw my husband for the first time in 7 weeks today. We were both in the grocery store at the same time. I turned down an aisle, and there he was. So I flipped him off as I walked by! I'm kind of sorry I did it because it's so childish, but it was an honest reaction to the shock I felt at seeing him. And I have mentally flipped him off many times since he left  I think he was there with the woman he was having an emotional affair with - but I didn't stick around to find out.
> 
> So, that was a setback today. I had been doing pretty well - looking forward to the future. I'll probably be back there tomorrow, but tonight I'm just lonely.


Those moments are so yuk...
I had one when my H drove past me and turned to look at me - 
it shook me to the core and all I wanted to do was to call him when I got home and yell at him....
glad you are beginning to look forward to the future.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It shocks you when you see them out! I get the flipping off al in al....it's almost defensive! Sometimes you want to inflict painful words on then in front of the world!! 

No matter how strong and moving foward we are doing...it is still lonely. I haven't been along for this long since childhood. It's so sad that this has happened.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

It's hard not to succumb to those moments of anger. Emotions aren't wrong. We just have to be careful that we don't let them dictate how we behave. There are days we won't behave as we find appropriate. But that's ok. We are human!


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## al_in_al (Feb 4, 2009)

I'm not really sure if it is appropriate to show my anger - I'm trying to be as truthful as possible with my emotions, but I'm not sure if I gain anything by expressing my anger to him. Or, I guess I shouldn't express my anger in an angry way - just do it like I did before, "Yes, I'm angry about blah blah blah."

He has now emailed 4 times since I saw him in the store. I responded to the first one (asking why I flipped him off). But I was ignoring the others (they were short questions, I can't imagine getting an answer makes any difference, but I suppose he is trying to figure out what happened today). I'm having trouble figuring out what I want to do. I'm trying to be civil and nice without encouraging any kind of contact. I feel bad not answering his questions, but I personally will feel better if he just leaves me alone. He certainly ignored my questions too many times in the past, but I don't want to act like him!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You are right al in al..you probably don't gain anything from him. But it may make you feel a little better temporarily???

I would certainly ignore him and his questions unless it's mutual business (financial/kids/etc). Ignore the chatty relationship emails/texts/calls. Be friendly but give short answers. This is what I did when I was doing LMBT (Love Must be Tough). It helped me gain control and distance in the situation. I have a thread with the same name.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> I can watch on tv whatever I want. Although I haven't watched much tv since he left..?? I can go to sleep and spread out. Although, I STILL stay on my side. I can sleep in without feeling guilty. It's great to not have to worry if he's upset or negative or moody. It's his problem now.
> 
> Life is too short to remain in a marriage where the other person is doing you a "favor." I don't want someone being guilted to staying with me. * I want to be loved by someone who thinks I am the best wife ever!* I was lucky that I felt this way for 23 years. Just having this sour relationship for 1 year makes me appreciate the life that I had lost.



Corpus you deserve this. Every human being deserves that.. As I told somebody already. Life is ever changing.. Nothing stays the same. Your current state won't either. He will have to jump to one side of the fence or the other eventually. For your sake I hope he will pick the right side when the dust clears. You have done everything you can to save this. Worst case you can rest easy and when he realizes the mistakes he made you can remind him of what you did..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH: Thank you...you are always so supportive.

I've been thinking today. What if I am wrong? He may not be into me any more. Sure we have a history and love but what if he doesn't find me attractive as his mate. I chose not to believe this no longer "in love" or "attracted" to you.... talk prior to separation. I just felt financial and inner turmoil created his crisis, not me. But maybe it gave him enough reason to move out of the marriage.

I was thinking of our sex life today and how it changed the last 1.5 years. Prior he was usually the aggressor. Nothing crazy...some high and some low periods. The longest we went without was 6 weeks after our children. For the most part weekly.

However, things DID change after his no longer "in love" statement. He quit initiaing sex. He quit initiating affection (mostly). He would/could not ejaculate during sex. He would please me and leave himself alone. I would try to "help" but it became frustrating. He said he didn't have trouble on his own. He was checked out physically and emotionally. I suspect that he wanted to satisfy me (nice guy) but wasn't into me. 

I don't know...he was one messed up individual. He said his head wouldn't shut off. He kept thinking and thinking during sex. From Oct-July it was mostly this way. In July he loosened up a tiny bit. 

Was your sex life normal during your pre-separation phase? I am wondering if I've been fooling myself.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Our sex-life pre-separation stage was non-existent. Just before he left, a urologist finally tested his hormones and it was as I suspected-low testosterone. He's finally balanced but does not want to be physically intimate with me. He doesn't think it's fair and doesn't feel the connection. Not to mention, he doesn't like himself.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW - 

Don't start doubting yourself on this one - it's all part of the mad stuff they go through 

nothing to do with how 'sexy' you are ..it's in _their _head remember

our MC said that the sexiest part of the body was the 'ears' meaning that open communication was the key to great sex...

if they aren't being open with us (and not with themselves) we don't have a hope of true intimacy...

intimacy/connection happens in the mind - as the MC said to us 
an orgasm is an orgasm is an orgasm...

my H always liked having sex with me 

but the bastard had to devalue this by saying he 'felt nothing' when he had it with me - 

I was talking to a male colleague about this one day ( I know weird but he was opening up to me) and he said that was impossible....(feeling nothing that is) 

You are maybe thinking about it now because he is giving out some 'interested' signs -

If he is anything like my H (and we know he is) you are probably his number one fantasy woman right now -

my H actually told me he couldn't stop thinking abou having sex with me when he left...

and we had wild sex and happy sex and calm sex and you name it when he came back - but it still didn't keep him here...

he still thinks he loves me as a friend!

THEY ARE NUTS


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks knortoh: I keep thinking this is my H...a person who couldn't keep his hands off me for decades. Then in the last year he didn't/couldn't want to do anything with me (intimacy wise). I was always under the belief that he was a guy and well.... would do under any circumstances. 

I believe my H said he felt "nothing" as well. 

The difference was even when we did do it...he didn't seem to be enjoying himself as all. I don't blame myself. I just think maybe I might be wrong. Maybe he switched off and it won't come on again???

I know I am getting "interested" looks. Hey, after 3 months he might be looking "interested" at a blow up doll! haha

You guys know how it is...you question your own sanity at times.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> Life is too short to remain in a marriage where the other person is doing you a "favor." I don't want someone being guilted to staying with me. I want to be loved by someone who thinks I am the best wife ever! I was lucky that I felt this way for 23 years. Just having this sour relationship for 1 year makes me appreciate the life that I had lost.


Amen! Amen! Amen!!!! This is so true! 

Today I have been having weird feelings. Feelings of anger/sadness (to be expected) and excitement. I'm excited for my future. I'm excited about where my new job may take me, living someplace where I get to be clean and organized and not constantly picking up after someone, and for the possibility of meeting someone who likes me and wants to spend time with me. 

I'm echoing all of your responses to intimacy. My H couldn't keep his hands off me for as long as we've been together. The weekend before he broke this news to me, he flat out turned me down for sex. He said he had to go to work (you know, his dream job). That was when I knew something was up. Sex was one thing we did well. 

It's still hard to know the dreams and goals I had with him are now gone. I really want to have kids and I'm scared I won't get that opportunity.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

This is where I am confused. So far, except for Wren (medical reasons) your husbands initiated sex and seems willing to do it up until they left. I had 9 months of "lack" of drive from him. 

Maybe I am missing something. Maybe he's just not into me. All of this time I've been psychologically evaluating him as depressed and/or midlife crisis when all along he just didin't/doesn't care for me in THAT way. I've thought...he's going to want back in this relationship divorced or not. Am I fooling myself? If so, I want out. I really don't want to pin any hope of him.


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## al_in_al (Feb 4, 2009)

Corpus, I'm not sure what to think of your situation. One one hand, I know how much having that hope HURTS. On the other hand, I'm not sure you should read so much into his sex drive - it seems like there are SO many things that affect that that have nothing to do with his actual attraction to you.

Leading up to my separation, my husband certainly initiated less. He turned me down. But since my drive was way up, we did have sex more often than at some other points in our relationship. After he moved out, he didn't want to hurt/confuse me by having sex, but I wanted to try keeping that part of our relationship going (with the agreement that we weren't having sex with other people), so we did for the next six months until he told me he was done with our relationship.

Sex won't bring him back. And if it was good in the past, I believe that it could be in the future, if that is what he decides he wants.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Corpus stop trying to beat yourself up.. It's something in him. he has issues and you know that. If his head is going a mile a minute then how can that be you?? When you take away all the layers of problems how do you know what is left?? Facts are so much is clouding his judgement. He don't know who or what he wants.. I think your over analyzing the situation. Please don't... I'm sure your the same women he married.. This coming from a guy who can't get enough of my wife and I explained that last night to her. If you are connected to somebody it doesn't matter what they look like. The love is driven from inside. Men who let physical out weigh emotional are not connected.. Like your husband is doing.. 

BTW all you women.. I WOULD NEVER TURN SEX DOWN! I don't understand your husbands... Maybe I am a different breed.. Then again I talk more then most men..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks LH...I know you are right. My H was like YOU-NEVER turn down sex. Flu-he's tried to get frisky! OMG! 

That's why I'm confused. He's not connected alright. I just hope he gets it....I have little hope that he will pre-divorce though.

I know many keep the sex going during separation. Because I did the tough love thing...I certainly wasn't going there. Plus, he hasn't tried in any case. I know he doesn't want to confuse the facts. 

He said up until pre-separation he didn't feel it was right staying in the same bed. He left the bed a few weeks before separation after a discussion that i had regarding mixed messages. He was absolutely clueless that he had been giving mixed messages. Blew me away!

I named about 5 instances and his mouth dropped. He said "I didn't know I was doing that." Was he in a coma or sleep walking? ha


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

LH you are so right - it's about the connection - it's a form of communication, sharing, closeness....you can't separate that from sex when it is with the perosn you love and have shared the most profound life experiences....

you are so RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT

it is because they are DISCONNECTED they can't 'do it'....

it because the LOVE is still there (somewhere in some inaccessible place) and they feel the disconnection.....

YOu sure do talk more than most guys!!!!!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW,

It has nothing to do with whether he is attracted to you or not. Whatever his issues are underneath and I only assume to know, he is like me deep down. Becomes an introvert to the ones closest to him due to stress, etc. If he got in the same cycle I did -- I didn't feel worthy. Don't know if that makes sense to you or not. Just is what it is.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I think you are right. I also have been told that he may have felt inferior. 

Deep down I know it's not only me. I believe he knows enough now to know it not only me. I have this little bit of hope that he'll return. Not sure if that will fade, over time, or not. 

FA: When did the light bulb come on for you?


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

I think sometimes, women tend to think of men as pure sexual beings. Meaning, they have sex if offered. Period. But if a man doesn't feel good about himself, he questions his masculinity ie. no sex drive.


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

I also over analyzed the whole sex thing. My H and I had amazing sex 3 days before he walked out. I was like what? It was very confusing. So there really is just no telling with these guys by their actions. My H is still coming back for sex and its been over 9 months. I mean what the hell is that suppose to mean? I keep thinking if he is still attracted to me then why isn't he here!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Believe: exactly....your H fits the stereotype of a "man." Willing to have easy access even if it's not a connection emotionally. 

In general, women in stereotypical form make more of a emotional connection during sex. 

So..it's confusing to me. Your H still comes over for sex. My H hasn't approached me at all. However, I have to say I haven't been approachable at all during our separation. 

Believe: Are you approachable to your ex or make yourself available? Do you ask him why he still comes over for sex if he doesn't want to have a relationship?


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

I have learned the hard way not to ask too many questions. I had once told him that we need to learn to live in the moment. So now he uses that against me. Whenever I mention anything about the marriage, he just pulls away even more. Honestly right now the only thing that is different is he doesn't sleep at home or have any belongings there. I am just feeling very bitter today. He was suppose to bring the kids to school today and he was late. Which he wouldn't have been if he was home!
To answer your question- we still flirt alot and I always make comments about sex. So yeah I guess that is my way of letting him know. I am not the kind of person that can go too long without it.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

By the way: 

Got a phone call this afternoon from my H. He always speaks of the kids at first. It's sort of a way "in" to the conversation before he talks about what he REALLY wants to say.

He ended up asking about doctors and how to choose one if he needs one. I suggested going to our regular doctor. He was pretending like he didn't want to burden me with his "issues." I took the bait and asked "what's the problem." He has some spots on his nose and wants to get it checked for skin cancer. I gave him an idea regarding our insurance coverage and all. He said " I don't know how to do the insurance stuff."

I shared my info. and went on with the conversation. I spoke about our son. He didn't have much to add. However, he has started to use the word "OK" when I am talking. That is the most annoying thing to me...it's what my son and daughter says when they want to shut me up!! I am not a jabber jaw at all, especially with him. I always feel like he's not interested. 

When he said "ok" during mid sentence. I asked "what did you say?" He said "oh...I said you're right." I am not walking on eggshells for him....he was being rude and I am tired. "OK" doesn't fit in the sentence as far as I am concerned. It's like "well C went to the store today and bought...."OK" his response!!!!

I am getting to where I've detached a notch. I can feel it. I am tired of his pity party where I am invited to host but I can't do a darn thing!!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Believe: I get it. I haven't given the vibe. I think it would feel ackward to have sex then go on like we have been.

Doesn't it hurt you afterward?

I'm not really interested in sex with him....it wasn't that great in last year (think cardboard box). It would keep me attached (heartwise) even more.


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

Honestly it makes me feel better. It gives me a little bit of what I need to feel a connection with him. Don't get me wrong even when I try to initiate anything he is ultimately the one who makes the call. He must be in control all the time. Annoying! What can I say I am very weak when it comes to him.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> By the way:
> 
> I always feel like he's not interested.
> 
> When he said "ok" during mid sentence. I asked "what did you say?" He said "oh...I said you're right." I am not walking on eggshells for him....he was being rude and I am tired.


CW I think they are only interested in themselves at the moment...
he called because you had something you could give him - info -

but I am at the same stage I am now telling my H when his rudeness cheeses me off..if we were in a relationship I would ignore (just think oh he's having a bad day) but not any more -


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You're right knortoh...he needed info and sympathy. He doesn't tell anyone the details of his life. He has always told me everything. Who cares if he has a hamburger for lunch or went to the pharmacy or has a growth on his nose!?? 

The fact is...he has the info in his wallet (insurance card). Now that I am thinking about it he choose to not remember as he was going to the sympathy call.

I was going to ask him if he contacted the tax guy or his attorney. I decided why bother. It's his divorce initiation. 

He is taking our daughter for a week beginning Friday afternoon. She has a school dance on Saturday. I'll have her drop by before the dance do I can see her.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

ohhh sympathy - CW it's too sad 
he is where my H was when he left the first time -
still connected 
he is still connected to you


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, Wren is right. For some of us guys it isn't all about the physical act. It is about how we feel about our selves.

I knew I didn't feel worthy, I just didn't know why totally. I just felt I was a disappointment. May not make sense to you gals. Obviously not to my w, but that is how I felt. I wanted to be the conqueror, but didn't feel like I could be to her. Didn't feel I lived up to her expectations for other things. May not make sense to you, sometimes doesn't make sense to me. I'm not sure about a light bulb moment, just know that is how I felt. And she couldn't accept the fact that I couldn't face me, let alone her. She didn't wait and you know what she did instead...............


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: Was there anything she COULD have done or said that would have made a difference?

Another call tonight to see how the kids were doing? My son is having some relationship drama and D is moody. Other than that normal?? He told me he didn't want to "bag me" with the kids and the problems. How considerate. I was quiet after that...he came across short. 

I asked him "if he was mad at me" and he said "No why?" He was sincere and it surprised him that I asked. I told him the way he was coming across. 

He said he'd call again this week to check on things regarding dropping off of D. I've already discussed this with him. "Pick her up Friday after school." He said "I dont want you to have to pick her up from school." I said "no big deal. I do it all time and I'm not working." Anyway, he is missing the day to day stuff....it's obvious. He doesn't want to be left out.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

She just could of said she loved me no matter what. That I was king of the world in her eyes. That would have touched my soul I think.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I told him all of those things before he left. I guess it's different circumstances as you stayed and she left. 

I'm not sure I could say or do anything to touch his soul. I think only GOD will be able to do that at this point.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

I hope we all eventually find someone who truly loves us and won't turn their backs on us when times get hard. 

And when we do meet that special someone, we'll say: 

This? This is true love? This is what it's supposed to feel like? Why didn't someone tell me sooner?

Lord knows we all deserve it!!


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

Yes we do ! This bleepin sucks big time. I can't live my life like this anymore. I am so drained and exhausted. When does the goddamn pain ever stop????????????????


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

mls
I think I know what you mean but I have to say 
I have thought about this a bit because I think my H thinks he doesn't have 'true' or 'deep' love for me - 
I don't believe in 'true' love as distinct from other sorts of love -
I just believe in real love - and real lives and real emotions - 
and these are flawed 
and messy 
and whenever your heart is on the line you run the risk of being hurt........

believe 
the pain is terrible 
sometimes it lifts - and everyone says you get through it....
you survive

and we'll be proud of ourselves that we did...

I just keep on thinking that after I pushed my first child out I thought 
"I am fantastic - I will never feel bad about myself again" 

triumph after pain....


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

He is still attached CW. I guess it's really up to you, whether you want to continue investing in him, even though the connection isn't "enough" for you. Tough call. But keep in mind, detachment doesn't have to be forever. Of course, what do I know? I'm like a friggin see-saw, up and down. *lol*


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm not sure how to become unattached. It's not like a spigot-off/on you know. Judging from my H, he wants it off but someone it's still on (maybe slightly).

My investment is what it is....I accept phone calls that is really it. I don't make them unless they are for real kid issues. 

My 20 year is sick (stomach virus)...I'm not sure if I'll tell my H. I am handling it and don't need him calling to "check" on my son. Although, he is the dad and I could sympathize with that he also has made his choices. However, MAYBE I should call him the next time my son vomits and "misses" that way he can come over and wipe it up! haha (This was a mean paragraph....I felt bad when I wrote it and was tempted to delete. A little anger seeping.)


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW it's like what we have said - when they opt out of "the relationship" it's the details they miss out on....it's life they miss out on - it can't be our responsibility to provide a commentary on what they are missing....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

But what about when it is the other way around. When the one opting out will most likely get the child and the other one misses out. Like me. That is what is breaking my heart. The thought of missing out on being there for my son when he is sick, when he is in pain, when he's happy, etc.

Kills me.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA - completely UNFAIR - 
why will she get more custody than you ?
here the default is 50/50....


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I just can't see you getting less than 50/50 with liberal visitation. You have done nothing wrong. 

It goes both ways. I will also miss out on the days he has our D. I pointed that out to him before he left. You can't help but missing out. You get your kid 50% of the time.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

As my super smart 8 year old says :
I get to see you less and dad less....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Sure it will be 50/50 custody and I'm sure I get liberal visitation rights. But for my son's sake I don't feel switching off during school in the middle of the week is good for him. He needs a place to call home most of the time. Yes I'll see him during the week, but only have him with me overnight probably one or two nights on a weekend.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I see...I feel the same way regarding switching during the week. We are flexible with our D regarding that..However, sometimes he can pick her up and have dinner and hangout then take her home (instead of overnight). That way...you guys get to see each other. 

Plus, I assume that you will coach his teams. So that will give you opportunities to connect with him as well. 

I had a counseling appt. I told her about the messages/calls that he's been giving. She said he obviously wants a connection..maybe a friend connection. As long as it doesn't bother me (anxiety, etc) then I am ok with it. I know my boundaries well and will defer if I need to.

I really do have it together. Not without sadness and disappointment. I'm just so tired of thinking, rehashing, overanalyzing, dealing with this relationship. I'm just waiting on him to call to meet again regarding the attorney and tax guy. He's been slower on that front. Once we settle on the details, it's typed up. I think the earliest it can go through is Nov. 15th. Once we get a bit closer and I know the paperwork is settled, I'll look for a house to close after the divorce. 

He has so much work to do on himelf, it's incredible. I've guided him all along and now he's a lost soul out to sea. I figured out I was a enabler regarding my husband. He always deferred to me during times of crisis. I feel sorry for him. If he said today that he wanted back...I am not so sure it would be in our best interest at this point. He would need to prove willingness to work on our marriage. I would NOT have him back as he is...no way.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Cw what do you mean about the enabling part?
I never quite get it ....you see the thing that I get confused with is what we interpret as 'supporting, or complementing - is actually enabling - is that right...sorry you don't have to answer if you are over analysing....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K,

I think you have it. It isn't so much what you do as how he interprets it. If it continues his behavior than it is enabling him.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Thanks FA -
must have been why one day I was telling my counsellor about the fact that my H just didn't answer me at all sometimes ...she said 
K, this relationship has to stop....
I was shocked that she would say something so blunt - normally she 'waits' for me to get it (as all good counsellors do!)


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

K,

I enabled him because I took care or dealt with issues that crept up in our married life (kids/crisis/etc). It was natural for me to "take care" of things that became difficult with kids and families etc. When I so easily took care of discipline, structure, decisions with the kids...it didn't allow for opportunities for him to gain skills or knowledge. 

He deferred to me in many ways. During my oldest sons teen years...I started stepping back and giving him some control. He didn't want it usually. In fact, I remember in the car. My H, has more than once told me, "Can you tell him ......." Ok. He wants me to tell my son, who is sitting behind him to do something. " WHAT? I never did.."It would be..... you tell him."

Even simple things...he would say 'you know more or you know best." I see that now. 

I think FA is right. It's how they interpret it. 

When I read this again..it makes him sound stupid. He is far from it..maybe just not secure with these issues. He really is lacking in confidence. If you looked at my H and how he carries himself and his business...you would NEVER know that he lacks confidence.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW that makes perfect sense, You had already been through a lot in life and you had dealt with that - you could face things and also you are just practical..but that meant it was so easy for him to feel as though you could deal with everything....
he perceived himself as less capable...and even you telling him to tell your son stuff is him taking direction from you -
what a vicious cycle...they step back we step forward -
now you have stepped back - no more enabling....
blimey


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I hadn't thought of it but he did step back as he is now. 

No more enabling. He has to put on his big boy pants and deal.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes that is it. And it has been boiling up in side of them. They can't even put a finger on why they are feeling this way. I suggest that book Dazed recommended. I'm on the web site (a support group for Nice Guys) and you should see it. 

So without realizing it, you were enabling. With my w she was doing this but then would say something like it seems like we don't fit into your life. But I felt like there wasn't room between the two of them (w and kid). I just didn't speak up and say why. Didn't want to rock the boat. Geez what a wimp I was with her.

And it doesn't necessarily a part of business. There you H's are who they are supposed to be, but when you care and love someone so much, us NGs lose ourselves. CW, I think that is what your H is feeling. He's lost and needs to find himself. But remember, he must change and you along with it if it is to work out.


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## al_in_al (Feb 4, 2009)

Feelingalone said:


> .And it doesn't necessarily a part of business. There you H's are who they are supposed to be, but when you care and love someone so much, us NGs lose ourselves. CW, I think that is what your H is feeling. He's lost and needs to find himself. But remember, he must change and you along with it if it is to work out.


Yeah, that was my husband, a "nice guy" who wasn't really nice to me. He didn't get that getting your way all the time was no fun! I tried to tell him that when I asked for his opinion I really wanted the truth from him. He thought if I ever expressed an oppossing opinion that I was mad at him. He thought I would rather have him silent than argue. 

He now says that he is working on himself. He wants to open up communication as a part of that. I am conflicted. I feel good having no contact with him, but if he really is changing, I want to support that. I decided to tell him he could email me, but I didn't agree that I would respond to it. So, it's another wait and see thing. I'm curious if he is really interested in sharing with no expectation of anything in return.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I also went on the online support group for NG's. It could be a reason why many men go through what we term mid-life crisis. A turning point of sorts. 

Now that I am more aware...I am wondering how do I make him more aware or do I? Is there a proper way, at this point, to do this?


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

What if you have a nice guy that you encourage to express himself and to express his desires... Do you guys think they end up going through the same thing even though they are encouraged? (Thinking ahead)


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

dobo said:


> What if you have a nice guy that you encourage to express himself and to express his desires... Do you guys think they end up going through the same thing even though they are encouraged? (Thinking ahead)


Encouraging him to express himself is good but that may not necessarily help because we nice guys will not express ourselves if we think our thoughts/feelings will hurt the other person or cause a confrontation. And as I've said before, this is NOT noble, kind or nice behavior. It's emotional dishonesty both to you and to himself.

As an example, I have very strong feelings about certain things related to my W but I CANNOT sit in front of her and say those feelings although she may encourage me to do so.

It's very frustrating.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I knew this before but it's even more clear. It took a lot of courage/pain/whatever for my H to finally say the words that he "wanted out." It took the same amount of effort to leave.

He probably felt this way for awhile as he did say he was unhappy much longer than what I was thinking. It wasn't until the pain became too great that he felt he HAD to do something. This event was when the financial markets feel in Oct. 08. It was enough momentum to put him over the edge.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks D8zed.

Yes CW he probably has felt this way for a while. Who knows what brought it on. I finally understand what my brother was telling me that I changed with my w - he saw it from the start - and I treated her like no other woman I ever dated. So it seems it started from the beginning with me and her and just escalated. So I realize now that if it probably wasn't for having a child together, this would have happened sooner. Having my son deflected both of us toward him. NOw that he is more independent, this brought it self out. 

Goodness gracious.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: How did you treat your W different than the other women?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well, I guess I loved her. That I cared about her well being and therefore when she would get angry about something I would start to take mental notes and try to avoid that in the future. I gave up golf when she was pregnant because I didn't feel it would be fair to her if I played on Saturday and/or Sunday or go to the range on a weeknight because she was home tending the child. It all sounds so noble as D8zed said, but I guess I started to resent that underneath but didn't say anything. This led I'm sure to appeasement on most anything over time. 

Prior to I never thought like that with anyone. Always still did my thing. Your thoughts?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I should add that I was just needy. I'm sure I looked like a wimp. And I wasn't when we dated. Looking back on it this just kept building up to the point of no confrontation.

As an example of the difference even with her. One night while dating we were out with friends bowling and watching a fight. She had a few drinks as had I. I girl that was with another group started talking to me. And my w got pissed off about that and I made a comment about something that really pissed her off. I was like whatever and said so to her. She had driven, so I called a cab and said to hell with it. She called and called and I wouldn't answer. I decided that was bs and I wasn't having it. Eventually she came to my place and banged on the door for almost a half hour before I let her in. She apologized, I accepted and we had animal sex. (Turns out this is the night we conceived our son).

So there is a prime example of how I was different in the beginning. But I guess for whatever reason I changed. Maybe it was already there and just her personality brought it out. I don't know. But I'm on my way from that behavior. The big thing is, if I hadn't changed into who I became would we have even been together this long at all?


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

FA, did you have a critical parent or parents? 

My husband recently let me know something that he thought would be more hurtful to me than the lie he told me initially, but I had to push so darned hard to get it out of him. He finds the truth to be incredibly scary. I mean, it is scary of course, but it is scarier to him than most other people. He loves me to a ridiculous level, I think. So maybe this is part of our dynamic, like what you found, FA. How can a nice guy break out of that cage prior to having a giant melt-down?

And no, I dont' want to lose my nice guy. But I would like to know who he really is and what he really wants and to see if I can provide it. I want to love the real him.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes I had critical parents. And I was the youngest. Always felt like I had to live up to his standard (got that from my parents too). It came mostly from my mother. "Got to be the best" Notice not try, but be. My father rarely talked about anything when around. I've had deeper conversations with him during my marital problems than I ever had in my entire life. Who knew he could be deep - I never did.

So this created the appeasement to everyone. My self worth tied to what others think about me. Because that is only when praise comes. We didn't talk about feelings, just results. 


This is an issue that is part of the NG syndrome I suppose. I discovered these issues in counseling.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I think it was genuine and kind to think of your W during the pregnancy/infant stage. Maybe not quitting golfing but certainly modifying was a good move. My H would have done the same thing. 

However, the point that you began to cater to your wife...then it became the "danger zone." As D8zd said..."emotional dishonesty." You catered at your OWN expense and resented it...over and over and over again.

My H did the same thing with me...but my personality didn't take advantage of that fact. I don't think he's a whimp at all. Even though he bowed out of the marriage and isn't able to dig deep (at the moment)...that's his problem. I am going on like I have in the past. 

Now that I think about it he is probably resentful of the fact that he TRIED so hard. He'd never let me know that (of course) but I'd be willing to bet.

It's seems FA that your wife likes a challenge and frankly you either were NOT enough of a challenge at times...and maybe NOT available enough toward the end. 

Marriage is two personalities coming together. You try to predict a compatible mate for your future. You bet on it (marriage). When times rolls on things are discovered or changed and either you roll with it or die! I guess we're dead (my H and I)??


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

CW,

Sounds like these 2 characteristics may apply to your H:

- He is the dependable guy at work who will never say "no," but would never tell anyone if they were imposing on him.

- He is the man whose life seems so under control, until BOOM, one day he does something to destroy it all.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

My parents have been married for 40 years this Dec. My dad is a peace-at-all-costs, nice guy. Growing up, once a year, for about two weeks my dad would sleep on the sofa. My dad refused to speak to anyone and then, suddenly everything was fine again. I think that was his release valve. Mom understood and let him be. I wonder if that's how they have stayed married without killing each other for all these years? Ha!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes CW it was kind initially, but I kept on giving and giving and she kept on taking and taking as I look back on it. And yes that is what happened my resentment - which I now believe caused my withdrawal. Because as you think what your H thought. I thought exactly that, I tried soo hard and it was never good enough.

But that is dishonest, because I allowed it to happen. So I should resent myself for that and not her. If I only knew then, oh well.....

Thanks again D8zed for opening my eyes and mind. It was the final straw that I couldn't figure out on my own. It brings all my issues together. I can't wait to get that book and break free. I'm already seeing what I need to do. I can be myself for the first time in a long time. And I should be happy about that.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

FA - my husband's mother, too. I see the connection here very well. You guys integrate your parent's (mother's) criticism into your very being. So you have your own personal critic 24/7. To counter the internal critic, you seek external validation. The result : Nice guys. Sigh...

I guess what we're learning though is that even if you have a wife that isn't a taker, the NG still goes through a point where he says ENOUGH! It is like it is inevitable and unstoppable. It doesn't matter what kind of wife you are. This is totally about the man. And this does explain a lot of what CW is seeing.

What's this book D8zed pointed out? Should my husband read it? (I don't want to dig through 13 pages of posts.)

Good thread, guys. But scary and sad, too.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Dobo, I believe you are right. It is inevitable. Just with my w's personality it didn't take as long. 7 - 8 years versus 20. For that I count my blessings in a way. But I woulld have been the one to say enough like the others at that point. It just came quicker because of my w's issues.

The book D8zed shared is No More Mr. Nice Guy by Dr. Glover. THere is a website support group as well. Just type in the book title.

It is scary, but true...............


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I wonder if I'm brave enough to peek into this and stir up a hornet's nest. I could play my cards right and eek 20 years out of my husband before it all blows up. ;-)


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Be brave if you love him dobo. It can't hurt. Why wait. You owe to yourself and to him not to wait. Suggest the book, read it first. I've got on order. Really scarce at book stores around here. I'm just mad I didnot know this about myself sooner. And I want to make sure my son doesn't do this either.


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## al_in_al (Feb 4, 2009)

Wow, this is all great information. I think my husband is starting to figure some of this "Nice Guy" stuff out for himself - I'll definitely take a look at those forums and see if it can help me understand him. If I can figure out a way to share it with him, I will. Right now I still don't want to interact so much.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

"CW,

Sounds like these 2 characteristics may apply to your H:

- He is the dependable guy at work who will never say "no," but would never tell anyone if they were imposing on him.

- He is the man whose life seems so under control, until BOOM, one day he does something to destroy it all. "
__________________

My H can tell others "no" in business and such. However, with close family he's a do gooder. He's proud of being a good person and helping others. Which is a wonderful statement. 

I think alot of his frustration was when I went through my depression. No matter how much "good" or how "nice" he was...it didn't work. I wasn't really giving back much...I was incapable at the time. Hence, his frustration. He never got mad or upset or frustrated. He was always concerned though. It was a tough time for me and a tough time for him as well.

He was/is controlled. I know he thought about this tough step for alot longer than I knew about it! I know it was a difficult decision for him. He still can't say much to me about "why" or "how" it came about.

Guys...as much as I am posting on this board... I feel as if I've gotten some leeaway. First, I posted to vent (for months). Now, I am coming to some understanding like FA has said..."it's coming together." 

As the spouse on the other end...I'm not sure what to do about my nice guy. He's divorcing me. He's friendly and wants a connection with me in some way?? He's nice even in the divorce. I still want this marriage to continue. There's no doubt in my mind that this divorce is occuring. I get it. However, reconciliation is always possible even after the divorce. I have a bit of hope...even after. I won't be waiting though.


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## no1.daddy2kids (Jul 29, 2009)

Feelingalone said:


> But what about when it is the other way around. When the one opting out will most likely get the child and the other one misses out. Like me. That is what is breaking my heart. The thought of missing out on being there for my son when he is sick, when he is in pain, when he's happy, etc.
> 
> Kills me.



Oh, man... Kills me too. I will be traveling, now starting in december (I hope) through the next year. At least it will be in one city, but it is not where home is. I feel the same way as you, that I am the involved dad and I will be the one missing out on life. I don't mine life... Its hard, its hectic, it has emotions and ups and downs. Thats the way things are. There is no script for how it happens. No one gets it perfect. You hold on to the high points and live for those, so you can ride through the tough spots.


Sorry for the way-back-machine posts. I'm catching up on current threads...


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## no1.daddy2kids (Jul 29, 2009)

CW said...



> I enabled him because I took care or dealt with issues that crept up in our married life (kids/crisis/etc). It was natural for me to "take care" of things that became difficult with kids and families etc. When I so easily took care of discipline, structure, decisions with the kids...it didn't allow for opportunities for him to gain skills or knowledge.


the same thing happened to me too. We are both living the effects of it right now. W, because she does not know how to juggle a (hopefully soon) job, kids, colds, school, cooking, etc. at all. She basically was her own person for so long and I took care of things. I did this thinking it would be better for her, as she could spend time to learn about herself, hoping that she would want to reconnect to the family. Instead it pushed her further away, as she became entrenched in herself, her life, her fantasy of no responsibility. Well, here it is, the bulk of the responsibility will be with her now, as I won't be around with my (hopefully) traveling.

She is saying that she wants me to show her how to do things, but when I try, she gets angry and wants to do it herself, without knowing how. its sorta funny, but frustrating, as it is hard to watch someone work so hard for simple things.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

NO1: She will figure it out one way or another. She will also appreciate all that you have done...somewhere down the line.

I know my H appreciates things. He always has told me so. I was lucky that way. We always "thanked" each other and was appreciative of the little things. It's just that he deferred to me WAY too much when things got difficult (kids/crisis).


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

As a person living with somebody who is very depressed I can tell you how it wears me down. I have to pick up the slack and if I didn't have the 2nd kid I could do it without a problem.. Though the 2nd kid makes it tough.. It wore on me and I resented her for it.. I don't know how your husband took it. Sounds like it didn't get to him but maybe it put something in his heart you couldn't see.. Like a wedge is stuck there now.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH: I believe it was very wearing on my H...emotionally.

I was the depressed person that functioned but felt dark inside. I did everything around the house (mow/pool/cleaning/kids/bills/cooking). You name it...if it had to be done then I did it. I just was good at putting a "mask" on for MOST people. My H saw me at times without the mask and I'm sure it scared him.

I am sure he didn't know what to do. Really. I tested him and his spririt. I've apologized and asked for forgiveness. At that point, my H saw my apology as a way to chase him back into the marriage. 

LH: You are lucky you express yourself really well. You stick around and put your full effort in to. You have emotional skills. My H's is lacking in those. I know you been married for like 15 years. Could you imagine another 2 years of this? You can see where my H is...Yes. He probably has a wedge.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Hey CW, I am feeling a bit exhausted now by all the NG stuff. It is so educational, but it also feels kind of pointless finding stuff out now...(do you know I mean?) 

It is emotional dishonesty with my H - I know that 
but I somehow get the feeling with your H is more like emotional confusion....?

I was really taken aback when D8zed said that one of the recovery processes for NG's was leaving things openended -

when my H was first making steps to come back he kept on saying to me can't we just see if we can develop "a" relationship...
not saying whether he wanted it to be a married one ...it just confused the hell out of me - I wanted him to say whether he 'wanted to hang out with me because he wanted to work towards reconciliation' or whether he wanted to hang out with so that we coudl develop a 'friendship' ....he couldn't say either and got so stressed when I asked him....

I guess he was following the advice of his counsellor but he couldn't explain it me - or I was so hurt...I don't know -

I guess why that was why things were so rosy when we were 'dating' before he moved back in - suited the openended agenda - no real committment....

problems began for him when MC said he had to commit...

ahhhhh 

but I have to digest all of this -

how are you going with it all????
can't we just see if


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Don't get exhausted K. It is just new to you, to CW, and to me. I would get him the book and give it to him for sure or suggest the web site.

See here I've been really honest about my feelings. But then I don't love anyone on here in the sense that I love my w. So that seems to be the difference between the personal and business.

I'm sure there are degrees of being the NG by the way.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

K: I was thinking the same thing...exhausted about the NG or the midlife crisis or whatever. I keep asking "what's next?" 

We are informed but how does it help us? Can we help them?

Again emotional dishonesty or confusion....I'm not sure if it really matters at this point? (see above sentence)

K: The first time that your H came back and reluctantly remade that commitment again...it goes back to not wanting to hurt you. Remember when you said that you didn't think your H would come back again...for fear of hurting you? Really he remade the commitment to come back but he wasn't FULLY committed. He wanted to be and everything told him that he should be but he wasn't???? 

I just got to thinking. Maybe all of this processing will help us come to an understanding of WHY they left. It will help put the reason behind our breakdowns. Funny thing...I'm not so sure that my H knows why he left. At least he hasn't expressed it to me.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA I have a feeling he'd completley freak if I gave him the book - 
CW - what do you think?


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

What can it hurt, K? He may resist. He may read it one day, out of curiosity or boredome. I say go for it.

I am lucky in that my J has chosen to read all the books I've read. I told him about the "Nice Guy Syndrome" and that I bought the book. I can't wait to read it and pass it along.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Wren,

That is a good thing. You two are progressing well.


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## no1.daddy2kids (Jul 29, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> NO1: She will figure it out one way or another. She will also appreciate all that you have done...somewhere down the line.
> 
> I know my H appreciates things. He always has told me so. I was lucky that way. We always "thanked" each other and was appreciative of the little things. It's just that he deferred to me WAY too much when things got difficult (kids/crisis).


Yeah, thanks. She probably will. But I really don't care. I am not looking for anything from her. The way things have gone, I really just want this over. I have heard too many things and I am looking forward now, to going back to who I really am, who I was before this marriage. I liked myself better then too. I am not out to get her, as on some level I do care for her still, but I am not going out of my way to be nice either. Yeah, it hurts and it is not easy to deal with, but I feel I am on the right path to better myself.


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## no1.daddy2kids (Jul 29, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> NO1: She will figure it out one way or another. She will also appreciate all that you have done...somewhere down the line.
> 
> I know my H appreciates things. He always has told me so. I was lucky that way. We always "thanked" each other and was appreciative of the little things. It's just that he deferred to me WAY too much when things got difficult (kids/crisis).





knortoh said:


> FA I have a feeling he'd completley freak if I gave him the book -
> CW - what do you think?



As wren said, who knows, what the heck... at least you tried to help the situation...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

no1: You sounds done and detached. That's when you know you've done it all and you are moving on. You will do just fine!

K: I am seriously thinking about reading the book and giving it to him. Not sure if he'll read it. He's a slow reader-it takes him awhile to read a fun book. Slow meaning time wise- not rate. I think it's a good idea. You can put a note in it and say something like "i read this and thought you might get something out of it...no pressure just maybe a way of understanding ourselves." Make it unpressured.

If I decide to get the book..that is how I'd approach it. 

FA: I think you are right on the degrees of NG. It's like that with medical and mental issues as well. Degree of severity.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes I believe it is degrees. And based on what I'm learning like everything else you are an NG in some instances and not in others.

As I said I don't believe I ever was with another woman. My brother even said that to me. That I changed for my w. Became something I wasn't. That was based on love and more importantly fear of rejection. I hate to say it, but it might be based mostly on fear of rejection by her. Now that has happened. I'm free.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: The key for the recovered NG is to learn how to be emotionally honest when your heart is involved. As you said, with us you can be honest. With someone you love, like your W, it's difficult.

At some pont, you may THINK you are a recovered NG....you only know when you are tested (love).


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes, you are absolutely correct. That is where I become a NG it seems. 

No there will be other tests to becoming an Integrated Male - the term used. Believe me, I've been reading on that web site throught the break free exercises by other posters. A lot of work to do.

I might not be a NG for some things, but I am on enough of them. I've got work to do.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

By the way: I think ALL people can be a NG at times. Our goal should be to become as emotionally honest as possible. I think it's most important for those we love.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes, there is a time and place for being a nice guy. You just can't get lost in it.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Feelingalone said:


> But then I don't love anyone on here in the sense that I love my w.



I'm crushed!!! I want you to start lying to us immediately or else we won't feel loved!

;


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

dobo: HAHA!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

That's a good one. I wouldn't lie. I just wouldn't say anything. Wouldn't want to hurt your feelings.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

OK FA...we are having fun today huh?

Husband texted me today regarding D pickup. I asked him about his nose (skin cancer fear) and it was benign. He'd said he'd send me the name via e-mail and I could look it up. I've been the resident researcher for our household. I wonder how many people asked/knew about his dr. appt??? Just ME! 

He'll come over tonight to pickup our D. I think I'll mention that I have a book for him to read later (NG book). Kind of a "heads up." I'll play it up some.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

No Dobo's was good. In response I should have said nothing at all.................


And silently grumble about it to myself.


But no longer, I'mmmmmmmmmm FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: You are FREEEE! Congrat on your breakthrough...it is really significant. Awareness is everything.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

It is just step 1. Recognition of an issue. Now comes the hard part - the work to change. But yes awareness was started. I feel more empowered today.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Dang. I was hoping we rated a good lie, but you're too far along on this antidisestablishmentariaNiceGuy thing. 

But seriously, does this outfit make me look fat?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Not at all honey.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Guys you are having fun...I have just woken up (remember I am other side of world) ...and was thinking about why I 'wouldn't' give my H the book. 

I think it goes something like this....

when my H came back he did love talking to me - but, looking back it was always about 'him'. I mean this in a really profound way.

I think he was able to have those conversations with me because they were versions of the ones that he was having with his therapist...

sometimes i think there was more 'real' emotion - but they too were 'false' ...or at least inapproporiate and damaging for me...

not a "what are we going to do about this?" but this is about me - don't you get it...why don't you get what I am feeling etc etc..

so to come back to the book - if I give it to him isn't it about therapy - doesn't it once again put me in this (falsely) powerful position of a therapist who can sit non-judgementally and give advice?

do you guys get what I am saying...

I guess underneath this for me is that it sends him the message that I see myself like this -


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

K: Good point. It' like you are the one taking care of him again-like a therapist. I don't know at this point. Who cares what it looks like? 

Guess what guys? My H calls again. He wants me to meet with a tax guy alone. I want for both of us to be in front of him. That way we get the info. at the same time by the same guy. My H doesn't get it. 

Here's our dialogue:
He says "Ok. Whatever. I'll do it for you. When do you want to 
meet him? " 

alarms go off in my head) I tell him "You know you are a nice guy? However for years, I had never realized that the nice guy was really being emotionally dishonest for much of the time."

"What's the matter being a nice guy?" He asked.

"Nothing..as long as if it's your true feelings. I don't think you've been true to your feelings for most of our marriage." I said.

I go on.."Just like this tax guy thing. I say I want you there and tell you why. You don't understand but will go if that's what I want. To tell you the truth I would appreciate if you would be honest and tell me you don't want to go or why. Instead.. I get if that's you want. Over the years..it's been like this. Then you hold things in and build resentment."

"What do you mean by resentment." He asked.

"You know like a grudge." I added.

OK. This is how my NG talk went down. The first time he's ever heard those words in that context. 

What do you think? Too much information?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

NO. Actually I think it was perfect. You told him the term. Of course he is confusing what being a good person is and what a Nice Guy is like LH. Good person = good. Nice Guy = bad. But you walked him through it without demeaning him or anything. I'm sure he is thinking about this. The only thing to say would have been, Well looking back nothing else. You told nicely to speak his mind. Maybe follow up with you know I can take it, I'm not that fragile.

That is what I thought of my w fragile and fear of rejection.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

This is how we speak. I am usually direct and don't demean but I am mostly emotional honest (all the way) with him. Maybe this intimidates him? 

Anyway...I hope that he got the a NG is good only if it's honest. I didn't think I was going to really talk about this today with him. It just rang my bell when he said "whatever you want or I'll do it for you." DINGDING...

Gosh. If anything he knows I am NOT fragile. I don't think he was worried about me all of the time while being a NG. It is also being worried about him...being uncomfortable, having to defend himself, etc.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Could be fear of rejection by you. Searching for approval.

CW, let me ask? Does your H preen in front of the mirror. Worry about how he dresses - even on weekends. Was he the life of the party of did he stoically stand his distance being aloof? I could go on.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Knor, I know exactly what you mean. But the difference between handing a person a book and acting as there therapist is profound. The book is information. What they choose to do with it is up to them. They can read it and think about it. They can read it and incorporate it. They can read it and disregard it. Or they can toss it on a pile and let it get covered with other junk and never think about it again.

I think that information is good. Awareness is good. But it is up to them to decide if the information has meaning for them and if so, what they're going to do with it.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: It could really be anything...approval, fear of rejection, to name a few.

Yes. Especially over the last 10 years..he's become more of a preener. He cares about his looks and clothing and style. He makes sure things are pressed/starched. He doesn't wear T-shirts to casual eating places/home depot/etc as his "clients may see him." He has a persona that he needs to keep up. He said more than once.."I think I'm hot." (kind of jokingly). To me that means I need confidence.

He likes people and generally gets along. He's not much of a listener but would LOVE to be the life of a party. In fact, that was one difference of ours. I can socialize anywhere and anyhow...like him. I don't enjoy having parties, at my house, with friends and aquaintances over (large groups). I'd rather have a few close friends. Even though we are both good at socializing. I enjoy smaller intimate settings and he's like both. But "gets off" with the larger groups.

Why do you ask?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Preening can be a sense of approval seeking. Especially the I've got to look good going to Home Depot. If you can't just be you at Home Depot, who are you?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I agree. He's not totally dressed up going to Home Depot...just not a t-shirt. 

I spoke with him today regarding money and division. He gave me a pity party regarding work and boss and company and assets. I listened and asked him 'what would you like to do?" "Be fair." his response.
"What's fair?" He can't tell me.

I asked him "do you want me to walk away with nothing?" "You know I'm not like that?" His NG response. Anymore...I don't know what he's like. 

I don't know what to say to him. He wants me to sympathize and normally as his W I would. But, to tell you the truth...I don't feel that it's my place anymore. He's a wounded person right now and I don't know how it benefits him for me to be his "therapist' right now (knortoh's sentiment prior). In my heart, I want to help because I love him. But in my head, he's messed me over by divorcing me and I'm angry.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Join the party. Knortoh asked me a little while ago if I was angry. Yes I am, but more than that I have hatred for her right now. I'm thinking now of going for full custody.

My business partner is helping establish her faults by staking out her place during lunch. That SOB was there helping her load up her stuff for their trip in to WV to see her mom and have a Halloween party. Right not I don't give a rats [email protected]# about her feelings. I don't think I ever will from now on. I know that sounds awful, but she deserves it at this point. She lied. I cannot forgive that until she changes and apologizes.

I am free. Free of guilt..........


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You should feel free of guilt FA. You've done nothing wrong.

I can't believe that she's so open with this relationship. She sounds like a smart woman. Maybe not? Maybe she doesn't care. What about HIS family? I wonder if his wife knows what's up?

Remember she doesn't know that you know. At what point do you think you'll tell her? How much evidence do you need?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW - can you explain the financial conversation that you had?
what's he saying - he wants YOU to be fair? 
but isn't coming clean with details ?
'cause that's what J does - same never any details -


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

K: He just wants it to be fair. We have some assets that because of tax reasons are hard to divide. He says he owes taxes on these funds but is paying them monthly out of his check (over 9 years). 

He would like me to pay my share of the taxes out of the settlement. However, I countered by telling him that means that pay my 1/2 up front. That means that 1/2 that I pay never gets a chance to work or build interest in those 9 years. He agreed. The tax guy will help us figure. That is just (1) of the parts.

I know the details. I have always been well versed in the financial comings and going of our household. He has always deferred to me with everything including our investments. Financially we get along well. 

He's stressed regarding work and income. Getting a divorce is expensive. Attorneys, you get 1/2 assets, pay child support, pay spousal support....gosh you would think by now he would have returned home. His resentment/pain must really be great.

He's losing his best friend/wife/money/1/2time with D. It must be worth it?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

okey dokey - I get it....
I am much better versed in the financail side of life than J. but neither of us care for it...
my counsellor thinks my H is a child with money - and so what he thinks is fair is pretty silly - he's not mean however - but same with your H. so much resentment and selfishness and anxiety....


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

K: When your H left the first time did you have much contact in those months? Also, how did you know when he wanted to come back..what indicators were there?


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

Corpus-
Is your H just avoiding having to deal with the tax guy with you? If everything it said out loud to someone else do you think he doesn't want to deal with it? Forget Mr. Nice Guy it sounded like he wanted you to feel bad and relieve him of his duties.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW, it's all a bit of a blur 
and nothing was straightforward...
I was in full on shock - adrenelin pumping though my body - fight or flight...he left around mid October - wanted to see kids everyday at first and I didn't know what the heck was going so I said yes...
he didn't find anywhere to live - left everything here etc.
Christmas - he took kids up north to see his dad as we had been planning to do - 
I was a zombie - 
while he was there I looked into selling house, spoke to govt. agencies about child support etc. all the pratical stuff.
I would email him this info - he'd do nothing with it - what a surprise...
while he was still up north he emailed me askling if I wanted to call it a 'trial' separation and get some counselling -
I was furious and didn't know what he was talking about - 
my counsellor had said that she didn't think that he was going to be happy until he was completely 'rid' of me - 

I HAD NO SENSE HE WAS COMING BACK - and I wanted it over - really I was so piss**

I emailed back and said we may need to get some (legal) mediation to work things out...(I had begged for him to do MC when he first told me he hadn't loved me for 10 years and we had one session and it was hideous)...

I called him one day when he was there and said that I really didn't care anymore about his version of our relationship - I said all I know is that for 14 years you 'did it" and now you don't want to anymore - and I said I am sorry that you have been hurting but I DIDN't KNOW.....

anyway when he got back from up North we had a chat and I opened it with "I don't want to fight"....which was true enough - still feel like that 
at some stage he said "how have you been? " and he was interested - I told him the truth that I hadn't really eaten or slept for 2 months and that I was in physical pain all the time...

he kept on emailing me about seeing MC my neice who is a psychologist told me that it was in his "interest" to keep me emotionally hooked in for as long as possible - I was wary....

signs he wanted to come back ?
he used to look after the kids at our house - and I'd go out - when I came home he would have built new shelves in the kitchen! really after he'd done nothing for years...

I'd get home and he wouldn't leave immediately ..

we started talking - 

he told me he felt better whenever he spoke to me...

I don't know - I asked him whether he wanted to try and reconcile - he said "I don't know"....

He said he wanted to hang out with me and see if "a" relationship started . he woudln't say what sort of relationshiop he wanted - 
he made some noises about timelines - all sorted by Easter - that sort of thing - but he wouldn't say which way...

one day he came to pick up the kids and take them fishing - he asked me to come along...my heart just about jumped out of my body - 
I went 
we had a great day - they fished I swam -
on the way home I could tell all he wanted to do was 'jump my bones'....
we kept on talking - 

sexual tension was very high...

sometime later a coudple of weeks perhaps we went on a 'date' it was all ambiguous but we ended up at a hotel .....

thinsg went on like this for sometime -

dating - 

one night after he'd left I texted him to say I dodn't want to be his girlfriend - I didn't say anything else and I had no intention of forcing his hand I was just emotionally exhausted and confused...

he came home that night - told me he had always loved me and that he had come home for 'himself' - not for me and not for the kids - I said that I admired that - and it was true .....

we decided to get some MC ....big mistake 

anyway you know how it ended ...

why do you ask?
are you having some signs ?
I have been completely taken aback by some of d8zed comments - especially about having to have thinsg open-ended for recovery...
this was J - he kept on saying can't we just 'see what happens?' 
the 'problems' arose when the MC said he had to committ ....

can I ask you what you think of that (the open-ended thing) it makes so much sense to me now - but at the time I just thought it was him getting his cake and eating it too - (and he was - getting the bits of the relationship he wanted) -

my need was the opposite - I said - no we don't know if it is going to work out but first you have to committ to trying to work it out and he didn't want to do that ...

of course can I just say - none of his point of view was discussed in MC - too inarticulate - no language - he must have felt overwhelmed by MC and me - demanding he committ ......

but I just couldn't (and probably still don't) see the sense in a relationship where one person can't say I am committed to this...
ahhh hindsight it's a fair thing!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> LH: I believe it was very wearing on my H...emotionally.
> 
> I was the depressed person that functioned but felt dark inside. I did everything around the house (mow/pool/cleaning/kids/bills/cooking). You name it...if it had to be done then I did it. I just was good at putting a "mask" on for MOST people. My H saw me at times without the mask and I'm sure it scared him.
> 
> ...


I am more emotional then most men.. As you can see I talk a lot which is very odd. I reach out of adivse everywhere. 300 post to my thread in a little more then 2 months. If I have emotional skills I would like to see it. For me I am horrible at it.. I can't keep anything in and express what and how I am feeling a lot. It gets me in a lot of trouble. Foot in mouth is common.. Yet that's what my wife seems to enjoy. I express how I feel about her and she is soaking it up.. You got one part right. I stick around. I refuse to give up. She is my wife and no matter what happens she will always be my wife.. I just didn't put her first and I am now.. With the wedge that has to go away. You can not partially reconnect or it will fail.. I hope he sees that..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH,

I used to think foot in mouth was bad, maybe that is the way to be. Or maybe there some middle ground between what I do being the Mr. Nice Guy and what you do. Express ourselves, but think just little before saying anything that could be taken the wrong way.

Could be interesting.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Believe: I don't think he's trying to avoid the tax guy. IN fact, he dropped in on him and gave him some papers and discussed a few things. I don't know but I suspect that the tax guy said some things in my H's favor (my H mentioned this in our last conversation). If he does then perhaps my NG doesn't want to be present for a conflict. Heck. That is the only reason that I come up with....He said he would "do it for me." All along he didn't get why to meet witht the tax guy. I am gonna ask him again why...don't expect a real answer though..

K: Quite a story. He never seemed quite disconnected. Visiting often, stuff left at the house. The fact that you got on with your life and had NO sense that he was returning. From your post it's obvious that he missed "family." Still unclear "why" he ran to sudden? Did an event cause him to leave suddenly or give him the momentum to leave? It takes much for a NG to leave.

LH: I see what you mean you feel that you don't have emotional skills because your they aren't controlled. Interesting..hadn't thought of it that way. But again, it all in in recognizing that and "catching" yourself. You seem to be on that track. 

At this point, I haven't had any clear signs that he was turning my direction. On some weeks, during our brief encounters I feel him "checking me out" or lingering or noticing things. Usually that occurs when he is in a good mood (I can tell). 

This week, his mood hasn't been great (work wise) and he hasn't given me any indicators of interest. Of course, he has no CLUE that he is giving off a vibe. 

He is still moving forward with the divorce (tax guy call) and wants it done. Prior to separation he dragged everything out relationship wise. Once we were separated and I did the LMBT, after 2 months he was "done." He wanted out and had the lets-get-the-show-on-the-road attitude. I am guessing that he was highly pained with this separation. He didnt' see the process behind it but only felt the pain (feelings).


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW,

Maybe it will take the finality of divorce to shake him to doing something about himself. That seems so sad.

But you are a strong person. I know you'll be fine.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I believe that the divorce will be the catalyst to his NEW discovery. Indeed it's sad that ALL of this is so unneccesary and all. He seems to be a person that get propelled by crisis.

I'm strong and doing well. Not my idea life at the moment. I'm a believer that you create the life you want.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

At least there isn't a OW for you. I'm thankful that you don't face that. I hope your friend is holding up with his w and her actions.

I'm getting stronger now. As I said her feelings don't mean anything to me any more. I make myself happy and I will. Just have the sad moments now.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I've been thankful for no OW. Most people are highly suspicious that my H doesn't have someone on the side. It doesn't make sense that he would leave without running to someone. He is loyal like I am so it doesn't surprise me. However, now that I know about the NG thing it makes sense how he left.

K: I got to thinking about how the MC put the "you need to commit" or else in his mind. My H would have done the same thing...In MC he was like a deer in headlights. Like he didn't want to be there and wasn't comfortable expressing himself. Everything seemed forced. 

I would make my point without hestitation (in MC). He was never someone that could banter. So if I brought up a point...he would either act clueless or didn't know how to respond or what to say. 

My counselor told me that he will never have as deep of relationship with anyone else than he had with me. We have a shared history (childhood and adulthood), kids, a friendship, and good relationship. For some odd reason..it makes me feel better. It's like I won't be replaced.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> K: Quite a story. He never seemed quite disconnected. Visiting often, stuff left at the house. The fact that you got on with your life and had NO sense that he was returning. From your post it's obvious that he missed "family." Still unclear "why" he ran to sudden? Did an event cause him to leave suddenly or give him the momentum to leave? It takes much for a NG to leave.
> 
> .


CW - the OW was the catalyst - and turning 40. 
he told me (when he came back) that when he left he wanted to have an affair with her - but he 'couldn't' - too loyal....I guess -also his counsellor told him NO - and he's obedient ....
he was in terrible pain - sick of feeling guilty about being 'in love' with someone else, sick of thinking he had married 'wrong' woman, sick of 'pretending' he loved me...it was ALL too much -
but because he jumped ship quickly he wasn't sure if what he was doing was 'right'.....so about a week after he left he rang me and said
" I have feelings both ways" - meaning literally I wanna stay and I wanna go....
so hence months of confusion -
he came back also becaue he was scared I would learn to live without him and not want him back -
I guess now he doesn't care about that!


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> K: I got to thinking about how the MC put the "you need to commit" or else in his mind. My H would have done the same thing...In MC he was like a deer in headlights. Like he didn't want to be there and wasn't comfortable expressing himself. Everything seemed forced.
> 
> I will make my point without hestitation. He was never someone that could banter. So if I brought up a point...he would either act clueless or didn't know how to respond or what to say.
> 
> My counselor told me that he will never have as deep of relationship with anyone else than he had with you. We have a shared history (childhood and adulthood), kids, a friendship, and good relationship. For some odd reason..it makes me feel better. It's like I won't be replaced.


CW - so our guys are not only Nice Guys they are also poor communicators - you & I have better cmmunication skills and so one of our H's frustrations is that they never feel that they can 'express' things even when they do 'feel' them...
my H was a non-verbal communicator (in more ways than one) I read his actions, facial expressions (or lack of) etc...that was all he gave me.

So you think your H would have done same thing - 
why? 
I think in my H's case it was 
"I am in pain - don't they get it?" - "How can they ask me to committ to a relationship that casued me so much pain?" 
he didn't _say _this - I am just guessing. 

I am interested in what your C said - it makes sense especially in a common sense way....

these guys have lived most of their adult life with us - they ahve shared teh most profound experinces, theya hve been there etc...

CW you and I know that this is what life is - it doesn't get any deeper or better....

but I guess what I am trying to ask you is

does your C suspect that even if your H goes on to 'other' realtionships that he won't have a 'deeper' connection and in fact maybe that is what he 'wants'? 

I am just interested because I knwo with my H, he believes that he can have a much more 'in love' I would do anything for this woman feeling for someone else...he thinks that he can have that with OW....or at least he thought that at some stage -


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

K: Is there any indication that the OW is still involved? I know you've asked but would he really tell you? What does your gut tell you?

I see, the first time that he left, he was afraid of totally losing you. Does your H distinguish the "in love" feeling and "love?" My does.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW I think my gut tells me he is having a friendship with her and is not committing at this stage - she may have backed off I think...(scared of being hurt I'd guess).

This is not to say that he isn't hoping somewhere down the track (when he is no longer NG and is over the guilt) that they may hook up....

He says he loves me - and that he thinks he always will

but that the realtionship just isn't 'doing it for him' - 
"he's just not that into me" 

how he reconciles that with the passion he when he came back I'll never understand - 

NEVER


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

"He's just not that into you" because he doesn't know HOW to be into you anymore. He's torn being the NG and all. How to be himself around the person he loves. He isn't aware of this.

He hasn't discovered himself..only beginning. My H is the same way. I think he's fearful of what's there but it's come out anyway in anger.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Think the anger comes out cause that is what they have been sacred of showing us all along - 
and also in my case anger is related to resentment - 

"what a f.. up I am - I have wasted years of my life married to someone who I was never that "into" and I have hurt her and my kids and now I am 40 and I am losing my hair and I have met someone I really like but I am too much of a f..up to even do anything about that ..." 

woe is me !


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K,

He does still care. He just doesn't know who he is by himself. I know that is hard to understand. But if he is an NG, then he doesn't. It is hard because you seek approval from others and the more important the person the more you want to please them instead of yourself. You worry about what they will think. Will they reject you because of your positions, if so, better not to rock the boat. Become opinionless, directionless, look like someone who can't decide. It will take a lot to overcome that. Will you love him when he does?

That is why I said to CW a while back when she aske what could my w say to help me. That no matter what or who you are, I will love you. That is the comfort we NG's need to express ourselves. The problem is that when together so long, will he trust that to be true? 

Just my thoughts.

CW, yes I"m thankful you don't have that. That is the end of us for me. It is so scary how similar what is happening to me is what happened when her and I got together. Although I thought she was already divorced when I was attracted to my w and wasn't there to hear her complain about her 1st husband, everything else it playing out like it did. Of course she was also dating someone else I didn't know about when we started seeing each other. But when it came out I was like bye, bye. And she came running and begging to me. See I wasn't always NG with here, but somehow it happened. Wish it hadn't. But again I think that has to do with her personality as well and her traits. She needs to change or she won't be happy ever in a relationship. And that isn't just me talking, that is others that know her.

Peace out.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

K: FA makes alot of sense. I'm willing to be that your H was "into" you big time. You don't have the passion without. I know it was make up sex and all. I have a feeling that because he is a NG and didn't express himself because he loved you and couldn't as an NG as FA said. He became a NG because he loved his wife and didn't want to rock the boat. I am willing to bet the your H did also. 

FA: So your W had a history of beginning new relationships before the last ones ended. Hmmm. Lots of analysis on your part I bet. 
Same for me. It would be a deal breaker for me as well. Although, you never know how things turn out and what you will do. 

My friend, H that is reconnecting with his W after 2 years is still on an ok path. She is still trying to prove herself a little over a week now. That's a miracle in itself! She had an OM and was "in love." He's interesting as he totally had given up and now she's coming back. It gives me some hope...even though my rear is going to be divorced in a month or so.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Hey Guys...
do you know I think that I am trying to 'show' my H that I love him no matter what - because I do....
and it's not because I don't think I could meet someone else and have a lovely relationship - but it's because he is still the one I want - 

I don't think 'telling ' him this would help at this stage - 

he would just feel gulity that he coudln't reciprocate -
(is that right FA?) 

it's his birthday tomorrow and I have bought a presnt for the kids to give him - but I thought I'd text him and tell him not to forget that he is a great dad - 
what do you guys think of this????


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Remember CW, it is just paper. Nothing more, nothing less.

I dont' bet a lot, but I believe your H will come back. You aren't my w, you are strong yet compassionet. That is the key. You don't make decisions when emotional and stick to them just because you did. That is my w, not you. So if he wakes up, I believe you will get back together. The question is, will you be ther when it comes.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

You know K. One of the things I learned through this whole mess of mine is that just say what you mean. Guys in general just don't get subtle hints. No one can read another's mind. Just tell him.

It won't sink in for a while, but it can't hurt at this point. I'm not talking about beging or anything. Just say, you know J I love you no matter who you really are underneath. I loved when we met, I will love you even if you dress bad. I don't care about that. I just want to know what is in your heart.

I don't know, just me talking.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

K: I know what you are going through. Wanting to say something but holding back for fear you may drive him away (further). I agree with FA...I tend to do say things that I mean. If you want to tell him that you love him...no matter what. Then do. It's not hurting a thing. I told my H that I loved him unconditionally...I didn't require him to do the same. It was something heartfelt and he didn't say a word. The next day he said..."I know what you mean."

FA: I do believe he'll turn the corner...not soon though. I may have to endure him with a girlfriend etc. I believe it's just a paper and all. Truthfully, I will think of him as my H even after the divorce. I'm so thankful that I am strong and SANE (you pointed that out . I'm tough with a heart. He'll be lucky to have me when he comes around. Not sure If I'll wait. I have already pictured myself single and how it looks. Nothing horrible to picture...just a state.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Dam CW you are strong. One day you, me, Wren, and Knortoh will have to have a weekend in the Caribbean or something and talk the night away about all this crap. Of course it would be a "girls weekend" but I'd be there to screw that one up. Maybe the three of you should do it.

But you are a strong person with a heart. And that is rare as I've come to find out. My w is strong in a way, but not with a true, trusting heart at this time. I wish she was like you so much.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Hey guys - 

I am feeling so much better about things just talking through things with you
feel like I am getting back to me, easy going, philosophical, joyous, the best bits of me....
this is a great feeling, 
thought I'd have to change, be bitter, be messed up 
but I can see now for the first time that I don't have to be-

that might be how other people deal with things but I never have 

life is good ....

looking forward to a catch up on planet carribean or wherever!
FA it wouldn't be the same without you!


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Feelingalone said:


> Dam CW you are strong. One day you, me, Wren, and Knortoh will have to have a weekend in the Caribbean or something and talk the night away about all this crap. Of course it would be a "girls weekend" but I'd be there to screw that one up. Maybe the three of you should do it.


Survivor: NG!

:smthumbup:


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yeeeees and our tests would be 'psychological' instead of physical ones....
versions of LMBT and trying to make a NG say something mean! 
this is one of our better ideas I think!!!!!!!!!!!


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

:lol:


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: Good idea for a get together. K...is from another planet (Aussie girl) so she would have the greatest difficulty meeting. You would definitely HAVE to go as girls really know how to have fun! We'd indoctrinate you as one of the girls!!! 

K: I am with you on feeling better. I smile and laugh more than I cry. In fact, I don't cry at all any more. Very rare. This board and thread has been cathartic to me. Thank you to all of you who have allowed me to moan about my situation. K: You are my sister from across the sea. 

During this time of crisis I've learned so much about myself. I've been challenged and have risen up. It's drawn me closer to God. It's allowed me to gain confidence at a time when I should have felt horrible that I was "tossed" aside. I've made new friends and had fun times in my city. I've made new friends in cyberspace as well. I've reached out to others and asked for help (for the first time in my life-really)-this was significant as I'm very independent. I've learned lessons that one of God's gifts are relationships...building ones with new people and nurturing the ones that are present. Life is too short.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

OMG: You guys are great! FA could coach us!!!


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

You just have to laugh or you'd cry your eyes out!

Not to sound cheesy but I do believe in a breakdown is actually a breakthrough. During crises, when you're not completely exhausted, you can really learn a lot about yourself. I know I have.

I bet we could capitalize on Survivor:NG! A voyeur's Paradise. Ha!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I like the survivor NG. As a coach I'd be mean. Mean. Mean. Mean.

I don't know about bein indoctrinated as one of the girls, but at least I'd talk.


Ya know K, when my son was born - my parents first grand child - they were in of all places - Australia. Understand that for my mother this was big because her 2 sisters already had like 6 - 8 grandchildren with some of them finishing high school already prior to my son being born. So she was mad she wasn't here. Heck they weren't around for there second grand child either - there were in the Amazon. Funny how life works.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Well guys my H has a very good friend (G) who lives in the states - I have met him only once but we got on terrifically and we have spoken often on the phone -

I was talking to my H's sister the other day and she said that when G found out that J had left me he said that he'd be interested in taking up his place - if there was a vacancy as he has always thought our kids look more like him than J!!!!!!!!!!!

I am seriously considering suggesting that we hook up and that we spend 6 months here a year and 6 months there -

I just wonder how my H would take it!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Does it matter how he would take it? Heck that sounds a little NG.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

You guys having a blast with each other. I can't keep up with the posts


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Its fast and furious. And at least a little up lifting and fun.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH,

How are things going with you?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA you are so right ! 
Honestly I would so _love_ to do this to him - right down to taking the kids away for 6 months of the year - let's see how he likes shared parenting then! 

LH we have to get our kicks where we can - these are sad old times!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Feelingalone said:


> LH,
> 
> How are things going with you?


Take a look at my thread. I am still updating it.. I am ALMOST there. I got the lightbulb lit in her head. It's only getting her to follow through..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I took a look. Sounds great. I'm happy for you. I pray you'll make it back together. See the key seems always for each person to realize their issues and work on them. If neither one does, or only one does it doesn't work out. That is my problem. I realize my issues and I am working on them, but my w isn't acknowledging hers and working on them. She is off in her fantasy world with the OM. And she might never work on them and that is a pity because if she doesn't she won't be happy with anyone.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Feelingalone said:


> I took a look. Sounds great. I'm happy for you. I pray you'll make it back together. See the key seems always for each person to realize their issues and work on them. If neither one does, or only one does it doesn't work out. That is my problem. I realize my issues and I am working on them, but my w isn't acknowledging hers and working on them. She is off in her fantasy world with the OM. And she might never work on them and that is a pity because if she doesn't she won't be happy with anyone.


Don't think everything stays the same. My wife was blaming me and running for a LONG time. Only now after we are back is she facing her issues. Why?? Cause now she has NOTHING to look at me for. Now she is seeing that no matter how much I give she isn't happy. That I was once the target of her blame and now she sees it isn't me. Thats what your wife will need to see. I am sorry about the OM. It's what would drive me away for good.. If you love her and can forgive her eventually continue to wait this out. It will fade trust me..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

LH - that's interesting - my H has no reason to be angry with me anymore but still he is - I wonder if he's beginning to wonder why?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

So am I LH, so am I. And to boot the OM is married with kids. So not one family, two destroyed.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

knortoh said:


> LH - that's interesting - my H has no reason to be angry with me anymore but still he is - I wonder if he's beginning to wonder why?


Yes he will have to face it eventually.. If ou don't do anything to confirm any of his anger what else can he do?? Fights only happen when both contribute to the fight. If one takes the stand to accept the resonsibility the other will lose steam eventually cause your not fueling it.. How long?? I don't know everybody is different.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Feelingalone said:


> So am I LH, so am I. And to boot the OM is married with kids. So not one family, two destroyed.


Well you know that this is only an EA.. It's an escape from reality. Facts are it will be faced eventually and you WILL have the opportunity to either turn it around or end it for good.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

NO LH it is a PA as well.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Yes it is but the emotional side is the part thats keeping her from facing it.. I know it must be hard on you.. Your strong for continuing to go at this.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

This is a thread of a "different" color. It's turning into a mix of reality and entertainment-The Real World (like reality tv).

LH: I've been keeping up with your thread. You are powerful and strong. Many guys would have given up. Kuddos to your tenacity...it's paying off. I loved what you said regarding the one sided fight and losing steam. I mean...it does get them to face inward. THAT is what we all (on this thread) are trying to get our spouses to do.

FA: I think what LH has said regardless of an EA or PA..."it's an escape from reality." In a way the way my H, K's H and Wrens H...left was an escape as well. It's not reality to have a family...run away on to stay alone. Life is messy and stressful..they will eventually have to work through or deal. Wren's H has made much progress. My H and K's H ,if they choose not to look inward, will have many unfulfulling relationships in the long run.
You wife will eventually get over this OM and come back to you. You'll be the challenge for her at this point. I know it's nothing that you can plan for or worry about. Same predicament here.

Because our spouses haven't escaped horrible relationships...I don't see that they will want to stay away forever. Like LH's spouse...she could have walked easily. He could have easily let her go as so many would. However, given enough time and patience things eventually turn around. 

My H is figuring out that this split time with our D isn't so "split." She's 15 and well has a life! She went to stay with him yesterday for the week. Her first day with him...he saw her 2 hours maybe. She went to a out of town tennis match...came home...showered and out to dinner with friends and spend the night at a girlfriend's house. I then meet her at church (today) were we spend the AM at services and teach preschool. She comes home with me to feed her animals and lunch. THEN...he gets to pick her up. The weekend will almost be over. 

That's the thing about split arragements. Where both of us would have the opportunities throughout the week to spend time with her...now it's split it two. I don't get it. He's losing alot. His pain MUST be so great.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH and CW, I see what you mean. It is the EA part that is blinding her. Right now CW she believes it was a horrible relationship and it was all my fault. So who knows on that one. Yes it wasn't perfect, but there was no physical, or verbal abuse etc. 

CW, yes it will be different with the split time. As you know I already feel it.

Thanks guys.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: Right. She's blind right now. You know nothing positive will happen with her insight or relationship with you at this point. It's a waiting game.


I dropped my D off at my H's this afternoon. My H met us at the garage to load her stuff in the house. I brought him a single serving of chili that my D and I had for lunch. He thanked me. He had a few funny comments then we said our goodbyes. I always make sure to look my best on the few times we get together. It makes me feel more powerful (what little I have)! None of this is "fake" at all.

On the way home, I heard a message on the Christian radio regarding forgiveness. The guy said that ALL relationships that break down end up being "boiled" down to the lack of forgiveness. Think about that?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> FA: Right. She's blind right now. You know nothing positive will happen with her insight or relationship with you at this point. It's a waiting game.
> 
> 
> I dropped my D off at my H's this afternoon. My H met us at the garage to load her stuff in the house. I brought him a single serving of chili that my D and I had for lunch. He thanked me. He had a few funny comments then we said our goodbyes. I always make sure to look my best on the few times we get together. It makes me feel more powerful (what little I have)! None of this is "fake" at all.
> ...


FA - I agree that she'll want to come back - 
CW I am alwys looking my best as well - once again it's not about them - it's about feeling good - and if you look good you do feel good - 
I don't understand the quote about being boiled down - does it mean after the relationship is over?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Yes...when the relationship is broken.

I suppose, with my H, the resentment that he has for me is the lack of forgiveness. If he had forgiven me, he could have moved on and worked on things.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Ok - I think I get it - in my case it was the doubts that my H had and the way he blames me (unconciusly) for not picking up on them earlier ..not being the woman of his dreams - not fulfilling his desire for happiness....he can't forgive me for being so lovable and such a good person but still not being 'it'....means that he hung around for years when he shoudln't have - really it is like my goodness and good nature blinded him.....and made it 'hard' for him to leave - hence he keeps on saying 
"this would be easy if I hated you...." 
when I think about it like this I see how messed he is


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

K: Oh my that last post of yours....He is messed up if he feels that way. Maybe he can't forgive himself?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Forgive himself for what? not feeling how he thinks he should?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

K: Forgive himself for not feeling the way he should. Forgive himself for leaving his family. You name it.


My H just called to say "thanks" for the chili. Also, to arrange p/up for D tomorrow AM. 

He mentioned about taking a day trip (2 hours away) to amusement park for Halloween festivities toward the end of the month. He wanted to make sure that I didn't have anything else planned for our D and S (if he wanted to go). A shockwave ran through me....when he mentioned this day trip. I'm not sure why...at first I thought this is something that we used to do together. Then, I wondered if he wants me to go. It was like an electrical shock through my body. VERY weird!

Hmmm. I am thinking that he may want me to go. I really have turned down all of his advances (lack of a better word); neck massage; dinner or drink at his house w/D; lunch when we were first separated. I'm wondering if he won't ask because of fear of rejection? Not sure if this is a good idea anymore. It's under the heading of "am I fooling myself?"


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Oh CW - yeeeks that is what happened to me with fishing trip....(electric shock) 

ambiguous invitation - classic stuff

remember they need open ended ness....

(so wish that I would have understood that at time - he did tell me I just didn't get it - too hurt and defensive) 

oh CW don't know what to say to you 
except yeeeeks...

hold onto your hat...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

K: That was my first electric shock ever!

Good point on the open endedness...

I'll give it time to see what plans come about as we are found to talk about them and all regarding D. I probably could invite myself or drop hints but it's not my style at this point. 

I just need to let it go for now.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yes this is a point of conversation that is on-going for you guys - take it easy....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K,

Forgiveness of himself for hurting you. I haven't forgiven myself for hurting my w. I imagine J feels the same. Remember, us NGs never want to hurt anyone, especially the one we love the most.

Its sick, but true. He won't say it, can't I imagine. But that is it.


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

"On the way home, I heard a message on the Christian radio regarding forgiveness. The guy said that ALL relationships that break down end up being "boiled" down to the lack of forgiveness. Think about that?"

Corpus this is so true
This is what I have been saying.....if only my H would forgive all the little dumb things or things I said when angry, then he could look past it. Unless those things are just excuses to stay mad at me. It's always easier to walk away when mad. I notice he gets angry now over small stuff so he won't have to deal with me especailly when things seem to be going good between us.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

I have had a terrible day - very stressed at work -
sad converstaion with amazing 8 year old

"but isn't dad sad he doesn't get see us as much - he isn't acting sad"

and then when I come home and read these posts I instantly feel better - grounded ....

you guys feel like family to me


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Believe in the love dare they say all problems stem from 2 areas. "Selfishness" and "Stuborness" Think aout every fight you have had. I can guarantee one of those two were in play. Knortoh.. You guys were my strength through all of this. What the damage done to families gave me the extra effort to work harder at it. That along with her family also pushing me.. We are here for you and to help you through it. I hate to see the pain of a child in which adults are acting like kids..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

K: It's difficult with the kids ask theses legitimate questions. It's amazing how truthful your son as well as most children can be. They call it as they see it. 

What did you say to your son?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

I said that I was sure that dad really missed them when they weren't there and that he was just always happy to see them...something tells me that he is not going to let his dad get away with very much....
honestly though my 8 years old's ability to verbalise what is going and to ask these logical and yet painful questions just continues to amaze me....


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It blows me away too K. Your son seems to be a non-NG! He may provide some real challenges to your H. When will your H have them again?

I wish my D or S would challenge my H!!! They don't...I think they may be fellow NG'ers. Or they are in a predicament to not say much because they love us both and don't want to choose sides. Either way, I can't tell. I don't mean challenge in a bad way...just ask questions. My H is thinking "hey...they kids are ok with this." I know they aren't. They don't want to talk about it.

I picked my D up for school at my H's today. He has jury duty.
He texted me, on break, a thank you and asked how my morning was with D. Said they were recruiting more jurors than usual. Anyway...more chit chat. He is loving the fact that our friendship is building again. He doesn't have many or any that he does this with....


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

my eldest son is a pleaser and it is painful to see....
I will be doing my best to work on that with him ...
your H is so funny...
I'll bet he is feeling content -
he's nuts!


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

CW, it seems that your H wants a friendship with you but not a marriage. 

Just curious to see how you really feel about that. Are you okay with being friends and knowing that nothing may come out of it regarding the marriage? Are you okay with just a friend and not a husband? 

Just wanted to know. Not trying to be a downer.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

mls: At this point I think you are right. I am aware that nothing may happen in relation to this "friendship" advancing in a postive direction (reconcilation).

I'm at the point where if it benefits ME..then I will do it. If it hurts, than I won't.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

That's the right attitude, Corpus. Then you can't look back and feel like a chump if things don't work out.

But I still think they will.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

OK. We had a long phone conversation. He never wants to end the calls...hangs on. He was very sincere in wanting to let me know how he wants to be fair and all (divorce wise). He wants me to be taken care of...

He said he knows that I want the divorce ASAP. I said...I did say that but told him also the reason was until it was over would he be able to resolve his issues. I reinterated that he was so focused on the divorce and he hasn't laid any groundwork on working on himself. The sooner the divorce the sooner he can resolve his issues was my point.

I also stated that he blames me for everything and hasn't taken a look at himself. No response. No surprise.

I told him of our friends reconciliation after 2 years of hell. The aren't divorced but the wife that wanted out...NOW wants "in." I told him that the H is waiting to see if he can trust her but that's gonna take time. My H just listened. 

Also, had a few funny stories mixed in.

One of the moments he mentioned about not rushing the divorce because I don't have a job yet and no benefits. I mentioned COBRA but we agreed that can be expensive. He said...."I don't care if we wait 6 months" as I don't want you to not have benefits.

I don't know about this whole conversation anymore. He wants to sit down and hammer out things between the two of us. That's what I've been trying to do. I told him..."listen I don't say things that I don't mean." We both agree that we can do this on our own and not let the attorneys try to stir the pot. I think he been getting that advice from a few folks. 

I left the call with you name the place and time. We'll settle it. 

Also...during the conversation he said "OK" in one of my midsentences (pet peeve of mine now). I told him "when you say ok it like are ignoring me." 

I am nice but firm during these conversations. I'm tired of the games. I quit playing. Knowing him I left food for thought (reconciliation of friends that we thought were done/restatement of why I wanted divorce ASAP).

NG conversation all the way around!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes it definitely sounds like an NG conersation by him. But he is thinking about things and you did leave him some food for thought there with H.

Keep it going. I liked the we need to get this over so you can work on your issues. Priceless.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I think he was shocked regarding H and wife reconnecting again. 

I am so over this right now. Detached at this point.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I know what you mean. I am mostly, but I still have moments that crush me. But I am on a mission to find my happiness.

The other website is great. There is one section for family and friends where they allow women to post. Just wanted to let you know.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I've been there and it's terrific. I haven't posted just soaking it up for now.

I know..I will also still have those crushing moments. Overall I feel strong and that's important. You will get there. I have been longer on the divorce track than you.

All along you thought you were on "break." When she was really "out to lunch." It will take time for you to catch up.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

You may want to check with your state to see if they have any health insurance programs. I believe COBRA has come down in price and many states are offering plans for those unemployed (although they may not be great). 

I think you were right on when you said that your H is focusing all of his energy on the divorce and not on what happens after the divorce. I think things will really hit him when he can't call you up to talk about divorce topics. 

He is really sending some mixed signals. 

I know you will turn out okay no matter what happens. It sounds like you have done a lot of self reflection and you're looking at what will make you happy in the future. I do wish the world that you and your H can work things out for the best and stayed married. You have more years into your relationship than I did.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks mls..that's what I've heard regarding COBRA as well. Not sure how much it is...I'm not too worried about the benefits. He is though?? Your kind words mean the world to me. I know you have had it rough as well...especially the last 24 hours or so. 

Reaching out to others have been cathartic for me. It takes the focus off myself and my problems for awhile. MLS you will do just fine in your life. Just move toward the light...whatever light you can find. Even if it's your own flashlight!!

I'm not sure if it's just mixed signals or him wanting the friendship for us. Who know? If it becomes too painful to do anything with him...then I will stop.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Just wanted to say hi everyone and I am thinking thinking thinking about all this stuff - 

moving towards light is really important for all of us - I feel as though I am getting there and it's a nice place 

FA what is the website you guys are talking about?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It the Nice Guys website...regarding the book by Glover.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

It is nomoremyniceguy.com


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Sorry nomoremrniceguy.com


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Is there a no more nice girl one too?? :lol:


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I wish>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:smthumbup:


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

OK Guys!

I emailed my H the link to the NG website with an explanation as to why I thought he fit the description. I pointed out that I wasn't a know-it-all or perfect. I also hoped that he'd forgive me if I offended him. 

Who knows what the response will be...I had to add this to my list of "no regrets." It was important enough for me to bring up. I just want him to be happy and the person that he needs to be. He's a good guy.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

What do you have to lose?? I know when I tried it my wife flipped but I think it helped also.. Hopefully he looks..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Well done CW I hope it helps - I can't imagine doing this with my H - too scared of offending him....


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I know I almost didn't do it for fear of offending him. As LH said "what do I have to lose?" 

K: Regarding the post of "am I fooling myself" it is still in the back of my mind even more. As we are communicating more and he's saying things like.."it don't care if we if takes 6 months until we get divorced but i want you to be covered with medical benefits." It's cues my mind....well maybe he's diverting this divorce for a "reason." The fact that is a good guy and wants to take care of me is normal for our relationship. I can't quit "reading" into everything. I am driving myself NUTS. After all of this time and still feeling like something could make him turn the corner.

It's all of this additional communication that we are having now that is spurring these feelings.


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## ConfusedinColumbus (Feb 20, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> ...I can't quit "reading" into everything. I am driving myself NUTS. After all of this time and still feeling like something could make him turn the corner.
> 
> It's all of this additional communication that we are having now that is spurring these feelings.


You have to just take things at face value and stop, as difficult as it is, analyzing everything he says/does. Not doing so will eat away at any normalcy you have going forward. Been there done that and still doing it...(e.g., she is wearing her wedding band today - maybe she wants to reconcile?...she kissed me goodbye this AM, she must want to reconcile, etc....etc... - or maybe she does these things so as to prevent or delay the inevitable so as to simply get finances in order, line up another guy...who knows?) Playing these scenarios out wastes a lot of valuable and currently scarce energy. Your H's actions and my wife's actions are what they are, nothing more, nothing less.

Good luck today!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> I know I almost didn't do it for fear of offending him. As LH said "what do I have to lose?"
> 
> K: Regarding the post of "am I fooling myself" it is still in the back of my mind even more. As we are communicating more and he's saying things like.."it don't care if we if takes 6 months until we get divorced but i want you to be covered with medical benefits." It's cues my mind....well maybe he's diverting this divorce for a "reason." The fact that is a good guy and wants to take care of me is normal for our relationship. I can't quit "reading" into everything. I am driving myself NUTS. After all of this time and still feeling like something could make him turn the corner.
> 
> It's all of this additional communication that we are having now that is spurring these feelings.


Maybe this is his way of slowing down to think if hes doing the right thing. I know that if he wanted it over he would be doing it a lot faster..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW - I have cause for a lot less hope than you and yet somewhere I do have hope as you do. I think that we are taking good care of ourselves though and protecting ourselves. 
When we know the relationship has been 'good' it is so very hard to accept that they can possibly walk away - 
I used to beat myself up about being in denial 
I don't so much any more - 
I have never had to let go of a life-long partner before -
it is huge for us....
we will detach however we detach when we detach
until then we will have hope -
we are honest about this and so we are not fooling ourselves -


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Good post K I couldn't say it any better. Have you gone to the NG website? There is a lot of valuable info on there. 

I've never had to let go of someone after this long either, but you two have been married a lot longer than I. You are both being honest with yourselves as you said.

Hope is always seen as such a positive. In this situation it gives you pain. Funny how that works.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA.. Anything in which you give your heart to will feel joy and pain.. As I keep saying "love is a double edge sword".. Youwant the best feeling in the world you have to accept the worst at times.. It's a shame that almost every marriage goes through that..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Thanks FA 

haven't had time to go to website yet -

I read a lovely article a while back about the difference between hope and optimism...

the author was saying that he thought optimism was being hopeful with a specific end in mind, whereas hope was not so 'goal orientated' it was just being kind of 'in love' with the world - warts and all....

as a personality type I am optimistic - everyone who knows me would likely say that -

but I'd like to think that in this scenario I am hopeful - of what? that I will accept and live a happy life regardless of what the messy world that we live in has in store for me...

like you this doesn't take away sadness and honestly part of me will always be sad for what I have lost, the trust that has been broken and the pain I have been through - I am NEVER going to look back and think - well that was cr** but it was worth it....

this sadness that we have now is part of us


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH,

You are so right. It is a double edged sword. The thing is being a NG, I haven't given anyone my true self with warts and all. I was acting the good husband not being one. It is painful to realize that about yourself.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Feelingalone said:


> LH,
> 
> You are so right. It is a double edged sword. The thing is being a NG, I haven't given anyone my true self with warts and all. I was acting the good husband not being one. It is painful to realize that about yourself.


Yes LH you have hit the nail on the head - I firmly believe love and hate are both sides of the same coin - 
but for some reason when you wrote this post it made me understand it more deeply than ever - you have a way of cutting to the chase and for anyone who has read your post you speak with authority...

FA - next time round you will (give yourself - you are capable) and it will be amazing for you


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K,

I've got a lot of work to do to get there first. Thanks for the support.


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

Hey CW...

Don't read too much into the desire by your H to make sure you have medical coverage. NGs are caretakers. But if it's done with the proper mindset ("I want to help and I don't want or expect anything in return"), then it can be a good thing.

I think he's making this offer because (1) it's the right thing to do in his mind, and (2) he feels guilty about the breakup. 

I think your H is probably a true nice guy with some NG tendencies.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

D8zed said:


> Hey CW...
> 
> 
> I think your H is probably a true nice guy with some NG tendencies.


that would be us CW married to the 'nice' NG's !


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

That's better than the alternative, the sinister NG. That is what is hard so far because I am a nice person and a NG. Have to figure out the boundaries.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Oh my this is deeep...a nice guy with NG tendencies. 

I sent him the link and he looked at the email at least (I checked the status). Wonder if he is going to view it? I am thinking there is a 50/50!

I agree D8zed that he offered for the right reasons. You are right about the health care!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Crappy afternoon and evening:

My S (20 years) is having a difficult time which as his mom gets me down. I think I wish my H was around, but really I don't. He always made things worse by getting upset or turning it on himself how he's an awful dad.

He wasn't emotionally available for our kids either. That's sad for them to not see his "deeper" side. 

I sent my H an email regarding our S and how I'm worried that he's down. Not knowing what to do and all. Not that my H can do anything. 

Tonight, I have some lingering anger....I'm dealing with the ugly part of life with my S...my H is in his condo with our D...having fun!!


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Hey, CW 
I am also having crappy time - can't say why 
what's going on with your S?
is it anything that you can talk about?
better go my 8 year old is calling out that the toliet roof is falling down!


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

CW,

I too am curious about S20 because I have an S20 as well. My S20 is an emotional guy too.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Well my S20 is my difficult kid (since birth)..full of energy and impulsive (ADHD). He's a good kid and emotional (not extremely). He had a crappy year overall. He got into some trouble over a year ago and is paying the price. He decides to get married on Dec. 31, last year, and his wife and him are no longer together (too young/too immature). So he's back with living at home (3 months now). He has a new job and the first paycheck (cashed) and his wallet was stolen by an acquaintance. His truck is falling apart. NOt too mention that his parents are divorcing. His birthday is coming Sunday and he doesn't want to recognize it. Doesn't care. As his mom...I will do something to celebrate but he may not be around (camping). 

So for a young guy...he's going through alot. Many of his choices were bad and he's paying the price. He's the kind of kid that learns from his mistakes. But he learns the "hard way." 

I need to back off from my "mom" mode. It's hard to do when they are back in your house. I need to practice biting my tongue as well. Grrrrr.

When I leave the house, after the D, if my son is still around..I will suggest that he stays with my H (where he's at now). He needs to spend time with my H. My H has been reaching out to him. In fact, my H called to help him work on the truck this afternoon. I hope my S takes him up on it. 

It's sad to see your kids flounder. 

K: I hope the toilet roof was NOT falling down on your 8 year old! I'm not sure what a toilet roof is but it didn't sound good! haha


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I imagine it is hard for this birthday and all with what is going on around him. I imagine the same for my son's birthday on Sunday. He will be 7.

I hope your S does take your H up on his offer. Read the book CW, read the book. It is enlightening.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: Do you have plans for your S's bday?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes, after his games Saturday morning my parents and I will be taking him to a Japaneese Steak House without the w to celebrate. I will have him Saturday night and then she will or I will drop him off around 12:30 pm Sunday.

For right now I don't want to even be around her and I can't fake that I want to be. My disgust at her is that high. She crossed the line and that is it for me. 

This could be a miserable weekend for me for my S will now know.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

He will have a blast.... my older kids still love Japaneese Steak house thing! 

I don't blame you not wanting to be around her. It's like she can look at you with "judging" eyes while the whole time she is totally in the wrong.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Exactly, and I becoming a not so nice Mr. Nice Guy.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: That's actually good news! HA!

My H just called. He asked if I had time to talk. If not, he call back later. "OK" I said.

"I just wanted to BS with you for a bit." I said "oh."

He went on about a friend building a house on a garbage dump and is now suing etc. We have mutual friends in that same neighborhood. 

Then he started talking about our son and his birthday.

Basically, once again "friendly" conversation. Oh yes...he also told me to not walk on the beach as the red tide is really bad (for respiratory). "I know".... he saw me there yesterday and the red tide was there then???

Pretty soon he is going to want to come over and hang out as "friends." 

It doesn't bother me but it's soooo silly and ridiculous. I am going to be one expensive friend!!


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

CW, your H still has me scratching my head. 

My H would be ALL OVER the friendship thing if I let him. I know he still wants to be my friend. I find it impossible to do so since he's the crazy one rushing to divorce. 

Good for you for being friendly but knowing your limits. You are a stronger woman than I. 

I bet the LMBT thing just about did him in!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LMBT put him over the edge! WOW. You should have seen him. I knew it would but it preserved my sanity and allowed me to gain composure.

2 months into our separation and LMBT...he called a meeting. He came over, with a pained look, and said "What are we doing...we need to divorce." "OK" I said. Then, I asked for permission to date!! His body language shifted as this threw him off. I have no intention in dating and frankly it isn't my style (morally). I wanted him to get a taste of how life will be and shake him up. He still thinks I go out! Whatever.

After the divorce conversation...I quit the LMBT. No reason to keep it up. He has been WAY more relaxed and chatty. In my mind...I think "crazy guy wants me to be everything but his W." 

I always keep in mind what is beneficial for me. I'm getting to be numb around him. NO more crying after I see him or after I hang up. Detachment it seems.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Well for your sanity you need to detach. Plus the distance helps. If you saw him daily it would be a lot harder.. I am still trying to figure out his true plans. I thinkwith the divorce you should say nothing is stopping you. He can file and move on. Either that or maybe its time for you to and shake him up..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> I always keep in mind what is beneficial for me. .


This is the key isn't it? Do we always know?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH: He's already filed...we are hammering out the division of assets (together). I'm detaching and frankly it doesn't bother me when he calls. I used to cry after I heard him on the phone or saw him in person. Now it doesn't muster up any feelings....that's detaching.

I'm very clear on my boundaries. AFter 2 months of LMBT...he got a clear picture. I quit the LMBT after he confirmed he was filing. Now..he's in the friendly zone. I'm the closest person to him. The one that cares about the little and the big stuff. Anymore...I gotta say. I am pretending to care!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ouch!!! I can see it now. You'll be gone when he figures this out. So sad. So sad.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: It is sad. It's nothing that I am doing on purpose...just a progression. He doesn't really care about my world or what I am doing or how the little things affect me. For years, I accepted that he wasn't the best listener. I couldn't talk too long to him because he would get the glazed over look. I'm not a girl that does NOT know how to shut up. Really. I am a fantastic listener and very supportive. I just didn't get it from him. I was willing to accept that. Now...considering the circumstances. Why bother? Whats in it for me?

OH yes...FA: Spoke with H. Wife is still behaving herself (this is a record). She will be moving into the new place at the end of the month...with him. He won't put her on the lease..in case he needs to boot her out. He doesn't trust her at all.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

The reason why you are a superstar CW and Brilliant - (BTW can't believe I am the first to have noticed and called you that) - is that you know yourself so well
lots of sadness but no REGRETS - a huge difference.......
your H will be overwhelmed with REGRET when he wakes up out his current trip
all strength to you 
you really are completely inspiarational and I think you should have your own T.V show or at least write a book!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

K: It takes one to know one! haha

I think I want my own tv show! The next Oprah...Oh well. I'm just doing what is natural to me. 

Funny thing I went to my Gyno. appt. this afternoon. She said her husband did the same things two years ago. It came out of nowhere. July he moved out (bought a house a mile away)-Oct filed for divorce-and Dec. moved BACK in. She said she was in the OR and the staff was asking her when she was ready to date...they already knew a few guys that were waiting on her!! She laughed. She said hospitals are full of gossip. It got to her H, who works in the same hospital. He didn't like it one bit (although she said he wasn't the jealous type). That is when he started making the move back into the marriage. She said "what was he expecting me to do. He left me with no warning. Was he expecting me to break down? Was he expecting me to never date again?" Man we had a long session for gyno appt! She said I was doing the right thing. Keep on. Then she gave me the realities of sex and dating!!! haha


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Keep going CW, you still have a chance. He will come to his sneses.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I am paddling upstream by myself. Getting tired or maybe numb at this point.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

You know I tried this trick with my wife 5 years ago. I started dropping hints I was meeting somebody and starting to date. At the time we were seperated for a month. I didn't have anybody but when I dropped off daughter after he work I would be dressed up. Looking like I was going out and said I would be out if you need me.. Less then a month later she was back.. Maybe your husband needs that wake up call. He already made motions of it being a problem for him to handle it. Maybe a way of making up emails or going out in odd times. It can be fun to fake a dating scene.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> FA: I am paddling upstream by myself. Getting tired or maybe numb at this point.


I empathize with you, CW. As long as you have the paddle, you have the power. Remember that.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH: I believe he thinks I am dating. I asked permission to date when he asked for the divorce. I have no intention. I don't see him much but when I do...I look like I am going somewhere. 

There are time when he needs to pickup our daughter because I have a meeting (even though it's my divorce support group). He doens't know what meeting. So...I have been playing the game for about a month. Who knows what he thinks.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

His phone calls are daily and "purposeful." He called me this AM regarding D again and plans. He wanted my advice. I am totally FULL of advice but I didn't give him any. I just said "do what you think is best." He said "you always know what to do. You always know what is right." I said "no I'm not perfect..I just go with my gut and what I THINK is right." I'm no longer enabling him with his NG tendencies. He will learn to rely on himself and what is best. Don't lean on me buddy....you are on your own.

Earlier it annoyed me that he texted me "good morning" and asked when a good time to call was...I didn't feel like texting back but I did. Kinda tired of him or tired in general. He's a pesky friend now. 

Last night I went to the gym with a friend. I didn't know I had abs....they are speaking to me this morning! haha. Gotta say, I was goofy at the gym trying to learn the equipment and all. One guy decided to become my personal trainer on a few of the machines! He felt sorry for me...doing the exercises backwards! I'm not a gym person-swimming and walking are my exercises. I just joined the gym to supplement as weight training is recommend for those over 40. I'm that!


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

CW, 

Can you offer your H some fertilizer and tell him to grow some balls!?!? Good grief...make a decision, Man!


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I used to reward myself with weights after doing 30-minutes on the elliptical. I *loved* weights. Maybe you will learn to love them, too, CW. 

You know, you could tell your husband that he's becoming a bit of a pest... maybe he needs to hear it.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

D8zd: He's good with decision making except when it comes to his family. Good grief! He'll figure it out...I am no longer feeding him

dobo: I'm sore around my armpits. Now..that's the target zone I was aiming for!!!!haha

I don't mind if for now...once the divorce is final then I can be more forward. It will calm down this week as my D is coming home after school today for the week.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Like the sound of attracting some male attention at the gym CW -
won't be too long before you'll be 'dating'....lucky guys!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yeah sure he felt sorry for you. Was he checking you out when you weren't looking? Uh uh. Keep going.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I wasn't thinking along those lines...haha.

I'm not sure if ANYONE was checking me out...I was like Bozo the Clown at the Gym. My girlfriend was cracking up! I'm one of these unaware people that doesn't notice these things. 

That what I need..a date. Makes my stomach ill to think about it. I can get along with anyone...dating errrr what's that???


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Somehow I think you'll be pretty good at it....nothing you've posted leads me to believe otherwise


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I thought your stomach illness was from the ab workout. Come on now. I agree with K, somehow I don't think you will have any issues. Now the poor SOBs who try will, but that aint your issue.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: It's both my ab workout and the thought of dating combined=stomach illness! 

I'll be a great dater! I am a born skeptic until the person involved proves himself. I'll look for characteristics that are difficult to find: morals, honesty, kindness, patience, etc. I also read body language quite well. So if you tell me one thing and behave a different way my skeptic antenna will go up. 

You are right FA...I pity the poor fools!

I just got back from dinner with my sister in law and brother in law (H's sister). The just go into town today and invited me to dinner. My H doesn't know they are here. Had a fun time...they are quite dissapointed in my H but have told him that they love him and would be there for him. However, they did say they were not "in love" with him! (Just joking).


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well at least they can make a decision. YOu are something I must say. You have a deep soul and a good head on your shoulders. Too bad you aren't in NC, I think I'd kick your ass in the gym................


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> FA:
> 
> I just got back from dinner with my sister in law and brother in law (H's sister). The just go into town today and invited me to dinner. My H doesn't know they are here. Had a fun time...they are quite dissapointed in my H but have told him that they love him and would be there for him. However, they did say they were not "in love" with him! (Just joking).


They sound hilarious ...can I use this line?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW and K, I'm in love with you guys, but not "in love" can you feel it? That is the biggest load of crap anyone can say to you. S#$t or get off the pot. 

Seriously, CW an K, your H's do love you, they are just lost. Believe me, it might tke a while and i don't know how long, but they will be back. Both of our relationships have very stable until now, and that means a lot. You've been through thick and thin a lot already and have stayed together. I have hope for both of you. 

Sorry your H"s are putting you throught this, but they are growing. In the end you should be better off. Just know that. 

I asked my father today if he ever thought about cheating on my mother and instantaneously he said no. He also said he had ample chances, a lot, especially when he was working in Venezuela, but never, ever, thought about it. That makes me proud. Like I said, at least at of my situation I actually have connected with my dad. I would say reconnected, but never had it before. Wish I did when I was 3 or 4 or 5. Maybe I wouldn't be what i am today, but what the heck, its life. You live, you learn, and you move forward. Have a good night to you both.

K, through another shrimp on the barbee. By the way, my father loved Australia. In all his travels in the world, that is his favorite place, with New Zealond right behind. And he and my mom have been everywhere now except Antartica.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: It's funny about the "in love" thing also....I about gagged when he said it to me. In fact, over the few times he said it to me...I think once I actually stuck my finger toward my mouth (like gag me). Do you think he got the point? I got sick of hearing that as his excuse. It's like being a little pregnant...you either are or aren't.

By the FA ANY one could kick my ass in the gym. I was using one piece of equipment backwards. So you wouldn't get bragging rights by kicking my ass. People would say "anyone could kick her ass!" I'm going tomorrow with my D. She is 15 years old and can kick my ass-easily. I do like the massage chairs though.....

It's funny how a crisis creates danger and opportunity (Chinese symbols for word). Your opportunity was created by having a better relationship with your father. IN fact, do you think you would have had this opportunity had your relationship with your W not broken down? 

I'm finding that things have deeper meanings to me now. I have a richer life (no $$).

K: His sister and brother in law are awesome and fun. We get along fabulously. I wonder how H's relationship will be wth them now. He's always loved them but somehow he doesn't KNOW how to behave with his family anymore.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Guys I am a pretty pathetic gym person - but I just have this thing - whenever I do exercise - running, swimming whatever I think that I am the world's best - not really - but I am pretending I am in the oplymics ....please don't get the impression that I am sporty from this - I am not - it's all in my mind!!!!!!!!!!

FA happy to throw another shrimp on the barbie 
too right mate!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Funny thing is you can be pathetic now but the gym work will make sure your not. Plus it makes you feel better that your improving your image. I am sure a day or 2 after you feel pretty good. Funny thing is just starting it is the hardest part. I am right now looking for a gym for my wife. I am trying to help her feel better about herself. I am not in bad shape currently but will go with her if I can help.. Everybody could improve one way or another..


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

I am also thinking of hitting the gym. Might as well get toned since I'm "back on the market." Ugh. I am not looking forward to dating. It kinda freaks me out. Besides, who will want to date a 27 year old with an ex-husband???


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

mls31 said:


> I am also thinking of hitting the gym. Might as well get toned since I'm "back on the market." Ugh. I am not looking forward to dating. It kinda freaks me out. Besides, who will want to date a 27 year old with an ex-husband???


What does ex-husband have to do with it?? Does that mean you are scared or something??


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

mls31 said:


> I am also thinking of hitting the gym. Might as well get toned since I'm "back on the market." Ugh. I am not looking forward to dating. It kinda freaks me out. Besides, who will want to date a 27 year old with an ex-husband???


27 is such a wonderful fantastic age - get out there!


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

I must interject and give a little advice here.  
I can't stand the gym. Many years ago I was a gym rat. Yes twice a day!!! GAG. 
Given the positions that we are all in right now I would highly suggest yoga, and not just any yoga. It must be Kundalini. It is so amazing for your mind, spirit, soul and health. It is hard but worth it . You learn about opening your chakras. You will chant and learn to meditate and then somewhere in the midst of all of that your entire body will change. It is so wonderful. I remember one night in the beginning of the summer I was wearing a tank top and my H said "it looks like you have Madonna's arms" I felt so good. It really changes so much and I love it. That is my therapy. So please look into it and see if there any classes around where you live. And a plus is the wonderful community that surrounds it. The people are wonderful and peaceful. Ok that's my advice. 
Knortoh- I just wanted to let you know that Australia is on my Dream Board for travel. I am hoping I can make it come true. I will have to look you up.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

B: I've always thought that yoga you would need flexibility. I've never been flexible at all...that has deterred me from yoga. Is this true?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Believe I suspect that you are correct - U have two friends who are total yoga converts and I have been thinking about it myself - what is different/unique about the sort of yoga you suggest?
And please do come and visit me -anytime


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## wantosaveit (Oct 17, 2009)

Have you tried the cold shoulder - i didnt speak to my husband who left me for 3 days and guess what he texted this morning to see how we are (We have 4 children) i didnt reply - but how do you get through this - i have this big gut lump inside me and just cant stop crying ??? how did you get through it - my h left me 10 times this year but for max 4 days - then I use to beg him and he would be back


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I tried it all including marriage counseling....read the thread (you'll get the full story-long). 

Not knowing anything about your marriage but the sheer faact of your H leaving you 10 times tell me that SKILLS are missing in your marriage. It could be communication or anger management or lack of impulse control but leaving someone that many times is a sure sign of it. 

As you read this thread you will notice a strength that gathers over TIME. Read Knortoh's thread as well. At first you are devasted and lonely and sad and angry. 

You will read this over and over on this message board. Try to work on yourself and back off from your husband. The more needy you are the more unattractive you appear. If you become a better you, it not only benefits you but it is attractive to him.

You can't make him love you or want to stay...he has to want it fully 100%. I know..I've tried it all!! 

In my opinion, after that many time being left...I would make sure that you have boundaries in place and abide by them. If he wants to come back it should be under conditions that you have in place. For example: He needs to come back for the right reasons (not because of kids or financial or he's lonely). He may also need to quit a bad habit (drinking for ex.). Or marriage counseling could be a condition. 

These are some ideas. Read some of the longer threads on this board. You will see the process that many of gone through. 

Hang in there...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I am currently torn between two worlds. I have a choice but I'm not sure what is the best choice for me. I've been against this divorce all along. Of course, hoping that he'd turn around and see the light. Hoping the God would put things in front of him to help soften his heart. I believe he has but my H has free will and is probably chosing to ignore those signs.

On one hand I feel like setting up a meeting date to iron out the last details and instructing him to set up an attorney appt to write it all down. Putting the pedal down to moving forward this divorce. He's been stale on the divorce for a few weeks. Wanting to hammer things out but not really moving on it as before. 

He's mentioned about not wanting to get divorce yet as I don't have a job and he wants me to have benefits. I'm not worried about it as COBRA will kick in and I'll have a job soon. 

On the other hand...I feel the I should not rush/push the divorce process. I should just let it happen as it comes. In on likelihood he will move forward. However, every week that goes by I think he may have opportunities to reevalute our relationship or himself. I hope he may start to waffle on whether this is the right thing to do. Of course, I've hoped all along for this to happen. 

Also, what keeps me from pushig foward is religious reasons. I don't want to be a part of the divorce action or the push to divorce. I want him to carry that burden. 

So what do you think? Do you think I should wait it out (as I have been ) or start pushing to get out of LIMBO?


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

If it's an emotional limbo, I would push the issue a little more. A nudge, if you will...


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Loving Husband said:


> What does ex-husband have to do with it?? Does that mean you are scared or something??


What I meant about being 27 and having an ex-husband is that I'm afraid I'll scare potential dates away. I think guys will look at me and think, "she must have issues if she's already divorced at 27."


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

mls: I don't think they will think that...unfortunately divorce is so common. Once you explain, later on, that it wasn't your idea and the conditions existed it will be clear. Also, most people know in any relationship it takes (2) to make it work. 

Now, if you were married 3 times by 27 that would raise a flag! It's really great (as great as it can be) to be on the younger side. You have time and more options. As you age, I don't know how it will be in the dating world. I think options are less as you age. I am 44 and I am NOT looking foward to that part!


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

Corpus- you do not need to be flexible, with time your body will change and before you know it you will be touching those toes you had been reaching for in the past. That is what happened to me. I use to say my hamstrings have always been tight so I could never do that. Then one night I realized how far I was stretching. 

Kundalini yoga is so amazing. I have tried other yogas but they seem to move too fast through the postures and I don't enjoy trying to stand on my head.  
Here is the place that I go to and this Yogi Gurmukh travels all over the world to teach. She is an amazing spirit. When she is here teaching her classes can be like 60 to 70 people. It is amazing. 
Welcome to Golden Bridge Yoga
you can also purchase some of her DVD's on the site.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> I am currently torn between two worlds. I have a choice but I'm not sure what is the best choice for me. I've been against this divorce all along. Of course, hoping that he'd turn around and see the light. Hoping the God would put things in front of him to help soften his heart. I believe he has but my H has free will and is probably chosing to ignore those signs.
> 
> On one hand I feel like setting up a meeting date to iron out the last details and instructing him to set up an attorney appt to write it all down. Putting the pedal down to moving forward this divorce. He's been stale on the divorce for a few weeks. Wanting to hammer things out but not really moving on it as before.
> 
> ...



Corpus, I had a feeling that this was how you were feeling....having read through your post a couple of times I am erring on the side of believing that you are in no real state to 'hurry things up'. 

If divorce is an action - then it is his alone - 
why should you be involved?

same in my case.

Ironically what you are hoping is that the finality of the divorce may be the trigger that helps him move forward and eventually back to you...

also I think there is the sense that perhaps a divorce will bring some sort of closure...emotioanl closure as Wren mentioned..

Against this there is the issue of religious signifcance and beliefs - that's a biggy for you -

I guess the question is will it get you out of limbo? I wonder? 

I honestly don't know how to help you think about this...it's the go with your gut thing really isn't it?

Is your gut speaking straight at the moment?


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

mls31 said:


> What I meant about being 27 and having an ex-husband is that I'm afraid I'll scare potential dates away. I think guys will look at me and think, "she must have issues if she's already divorced at 27."


:iagree:

Yes one divorce doesn't make you a serial divorcie.. If anything you will look more attractive cause you been down that road. You know the consiquences and more willing to work harder. Keep that chin up.. I heard women talk to me who were single they would not date a guy over 40 who was single and never married.. The reason being there must be something wrong with him if nobody married him yet. Now a divorced husband is different.. Somebody felt they were good enough to marry just didnt work out..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH: I have heard the same thing regarding guys and girls over 40 that haven't been married. They are looked at as flawed. I have a friend my age that has never been married. She had a serious relationship for 6 years but has commitment issues in the past. Not so much now, but she's isn't dating anyone at this point.

K: I think you are right. I don't think I will be out of LIMBO even after the divorce. I know it will be final and all but I still will have an attachment to him. 

He called this AM to talk about landlord (the one that ate his food/drink while my H was gone). He died Thurs. He was 46 and pulled over for a DUI. Died in jail with a seizure. He had a sad life. 

I believe God put my H in front of this man to try to help him. He told my H of suicidal thoughts etc. My H has never had to deal with a crisis from an acquantance. This was a way for my H to learn how to express himself to another without being a NG. 

My H during the call told me how I am good at EVERYTHING. He was clear that I was so perfect and good at everything I did. I listened then I said "OK." He said "S you are really do good at everything you do." I wanted to puke and say "oh yea...since when do people walk away from perfect people who can do everything."

He wants to meet this week to to divide things on paper. I said you name time and place. So much for him stalling. I just need to get rid of my hope or at least stow it away. I hate this.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I understand CW. Detachment makes it better that is for sure. I don't know if I'm getting rid of any hope I have left or if it is just being stowed away. I just know it is happening.

I still hope for the best for you.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Forgot to ask how your S's birthday went yesterday?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: It went well...he had nice dinner, cake and presents. First time-EVER..his dad wasn't present. I did invite him but he was out at the ranch. He had previously invited S to dinner tonight. My D pointed out that it was kind of depressing (the tone).

Just looked at my D's grades on assignments (viewed online). She already warned me about her pre-cal grades. She isn't getting it. Teacher not that great. My S had her and he got out of the class and grades immediately went up. My D asked to transfer out but she's the only teacher for pre-cal. My D wants advanced pre-cal with a teacher that she's been successful with...counselor said too late. I try to give her control over academic choices unless she really starts sliding. She's sliding-big time. Now I have to step in....My H says "he'll back me up." OK-Whatever.

I have a rock in my gut today. Feeling pained. Not sure how to explain other than I know we are meeting this week to hammer out things. Probably our final meeting about our divorce stuff. I guess it explains my gut. I want to cry but I cannot muster the strength or effort. Perhaps, I've cried myself out! 

I know one thing. I don't want to have to go to court to for the final divorce proceeding. Not sure if I have to or not. I would either bawl or announce my H a coward that didn't have any fight left. What's the point? 

I could be divorced in less than a month. My life could be so much worse. I know that but still feel that I didn't deserve any of this. The man that still tells me he loves me. Today he told me how good I am at everything. The wife that is friendly to the man that is leaving her. I know it's him. I really do. How can a person not see what is in front of them?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Glad to hear the B-day went well. 

I know life could be a lot worse, but I know how you feel CW. At times I am a strong and powerful person and then it fades for a while.

When will the fading stop?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I've read several things on divorce. You really can't imagine how much I've read. Supposedly, in order to get over a divorce..it takes 1 year for every 5 years that you've been married. 

Sh_T! I only have 5 years to go!! I am going to count this last year a wash...4 then.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

And...the recommendation is to not get into another relationship for at least 2 years!

I do agree with waiting to get serious. I think you need time to heal and make sure that you aren't fillng up a hole left in your heart.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I guess then I will be done in about a year then. Oh boy!


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW I am with you - the rock in the gut - the hope slowly painfully fading. the frustration. only time will see us through. this is another milestone you have to go through - same with me - my H finally wanting to work our financial stuff. As long as they aren't doing the practical stuff we think their hearts may be swayed. 

they will get what they deserve - sometimes I look on this from that perspective - 

we are paying now - but they will pay later and it will cost them 

we'd just be happy if no one had to pay and that is why it hurts so damn much.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

My good friend H, who knows us both well and has been around for our crisis said something today..."S..I have hope for you more than anyone going through a crisis. I believe he's gonna end up waking up." That was the first time he had said this. I had told him about my rock in the gut feeling. 

Well..for the first time since our breakup my S gave me a little more regarding his feelings. His D and him were to go out to dinner tonight for his B-day. It was planned several days ago. My H calls to confirm and my S said he doesn't feel like going. My H reschedules for tomorrow. I asked my S "why did you stand you dad up." He said "I didn't. I told him before. Why are you worrying about standing him up?" 

I said "I just want you to now the reason why?" He said "Dad stood you up!" "No he didn't" I said. "You mean the birthday cake yesterday" I added. He said "no...just the whole thing here. He stood you up for you future. It's strange coming home and he isn't here." I just told him that I know it's difficult but he still loves you and wants to be a part of your life. I told him that he didn't have to stick up for me. I was probably doing better than his dad. I appreciate the fact that he wanted to stick up for me though.

Wow! That was a big for my 21 year old son. Both of my kids have been tight lipped. I am not sure as to whether to share this with my H. Or let things lie.


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

I would totally share that! I always tell my H what the kids are going through and what they say. I want him to know. I know that he is not experiencing this painful side of it and he should.


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

I would share it with your H *IF* it's okay with your S to do so. You do not want to lose your son's trust.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Good point D8zd. My kids are private. I think I am going to leave it for now. My H is taking the kids to an amusement park about 2.5 hours away this weekend and spending the night. I hope my S doens't bail. He has been doing that with his dad. 

My H is a very good dad. I'm proud that he is putting forward effort. My kids are lucky. 

My H called me this AM regarding our D's grades. Of course he was supportive of what I was doing. We spoke of other things. He hasn't see his sister and brother in law since they came back in town (they are part time Texans). Anyway, I saw them the first day back.

He said "I don't want to see them." He feels that they are going to quiz him or give advice or take my side. They are not that kind and he knows it. I told him "they love you very much...you need to see them." He said "it's not just them. I don't want to see anybody." 

Wow.


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

H has a bit of shame and guilt going on. I would probably feel the same way.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Oh yes he does. He'll admit it. Do you only have shame or guilt when you feeling that you are doing something that is wrong?


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

Yes, absolutely especially when it comes to matters of the heart. And shame and guilt can come from many different sources. If I look at what some would consider 'porn', I feel guilty and shameful. When I take a nap in the middle of the day, I feel guilty. If my W wants to go to a neighborhood party and I don't, I feel guilty. Weird stuff.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW he is where my H was at the first time he left - didn't want to see anyone, tell anyone, I can tell my H has moved on because he has told people ( at the sporting clubs etc.) and he is seeing his family again...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

D8zd: OMG. My H would feel guilty for the exact type things that you said. He'd apologize for taking a nap. It's not like I said anything. I'd take a nap too but didn't feel guilty! 

K: I see what you are saying. He doesn't feel ashame for what is going on now. I'm not sure with my H that it's going to make a difference. He just doesn't want to be confronted with difficult questions.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, yes I would too. Like feeling guilty about playing soccer when she didn't want to go. Eventually I just started going anyway. Still felt guilty but I enjoyed it.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

CW, your H should feel guilty, dangit! In my opinion, the reason he's feeling guilty is because he is still attached to you. If he didn't care, there'd be no guilt. 

I know my H doesn't feel guilty. I told a friend last night that I think he went the grieving process without even telling me our marriage was having problems. He set sail before I even knew the boat was supposed to leave!

Or maybe he didn't grieve at all? Maybe he's so disconnected he could move on without any grief. Time will tell.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

How can you tell that your H isn't grieving mls? Is he acting normal?

I'm curious...what were the problems (hindsight) in your marriage?


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Is he acting normal? Ha! I don't think the person I've been around since early August has been normal. 

I don't really know if he's grieving since I'm not around him much. However, ever since he told me his true feelings I had this overwhelming thought that he just didn't care anymore. He doesn't care about me, our marriage, our house, heck even our pets (he let me keep them). I said since day one of our separation that he had "checked out." 

My H was always very affectionate and caring. He thought the world of me, or so he said. Since August, it's like he flipped a switch and stopped caring. 

Looking back we both had issues we should have addressed. 
My H was totally happy working 7-8 or more hour days a week and not really spending time with me. Since he took on this job 3 years ago, I felt as though I was a low priority in his life. Actually I think he thought having a wife was more of a chore/duty than a blessing. 

So I guess our biggest issue was lack of communication and connection. We both worked hard and didn't really give each other the quality time we deserved.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Have you checked on the possibility of OW? I know you probably asked but have you done some snooping. I say this because of the "switch" comment.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

An OW sure would make sense out of this situation. 

I've asked him several times if there is someone else. He has claims no. In fact that last time I asked him he got angry over the fact that I kept asking and said, "that's the last thing I would do." 

I can't do a lot of snooping. He has a cell plan through his work and I'm pretty sure he's set up another checking account now. Our joint account has the usual transactions. I check our caller ID when I am home and I haven't noticed anything unusual but he rarely every uses the landline. Hell, he's rarely ever home because of the "dream job."


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

mls: That would make it difficult. Did you see any patterns that were different? Taking more care with his looks. Staying out at different times. Having more "work" to do than usual. Not wanting sex suddenly. I know this was prior to separation-but looking back.


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

This smells fishy to me, especially with the cell plan and bank account you can't access.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I don't know what its like to not want sex from my wife. Then again I never had an affair.. So I bet if he's not interested in you then his mind has to be somewhere else. If his job is very demanding I can understand but for me and most men sex is top on the list..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Well guys had my counseling session today. Discussed the usual and told her about the NG. It was no surprise to her...made sense regarding his lack of emotional honesty. 

I just can't help but look back on our marriage as "Wow...how could I not have known." I guess we don't self evaluate along the way unless we feel somethings amiss.

My H, last Friday, mentioned getting together this week. He has everything written on paper and we can start dividing. I told him just call and let me know when and where. I always leave things up to him. He hasn't called so I don't expect getting together this week as he'll be gone w/kids out of town during the weekend. 

My counselor said "what if he drags this out am I willing to nudge him along?" I told her that I don't think it will be necessary. I feel that he will arrange a time within the next few weeks. 

Why would a guy let go his main support system? He doesn't share anything with his parents. They didn't know that he was proceeding with the divorce until I told them. He STILL hasn't shared it with them. The only OTHER person that he shares with is his best friend. However, his best friend has his own stuff that goes on and is extremely busy. 

This is why my H calls me about the little stuff now. Likes to vent when he's on the line with me. 

This is what I don't get:

Not only is he giving up his marriage with someone he admittedly still loves.
He is losing part of the time with his D.
He is losing 1/2 his assets.
He is losing a support system and friend...probably a best friend by my standards (not sure if he feels this way anymore).
He is alone (no affair).
He doesn't want to be around family (guilt/shame reasons).
He doesn't want to be around any one (per last conversation).
He isn't doing anything different than he did while he was with me (still biking and working).

So....what makes a person run away to feel more miserable?

Help me "wear his shoes" for a moment. You are him. What are you thinking?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I wish I knew CW, I truly do. Did you aske your counselor if there was anything about you that enabled him? I'm not saying that out of anything you've written and shared here, but maybe there is something although I highly doubt it.

Your situation totally perplexes me. Except that he has paralysis by analysis or something. He is going through a low self-esteem phase or something where he doesn't feel worthy of being with you although loves you deeply. That is how I was feeling with my W for a while and why she got frustrated. Maybe that is where his mind is at. The only thing I hope is that he is going to counseling and truly digs deep to find out he is an NG so that he does do something about himself.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I have read through these briefly and I really don't know what to say to any of it as I feel like I can't really offer any good advice only bc this is all so new to me...all I can say is that Corpus I admire you very much and maybe that's a horrible thing to say in a horrible situation like this, but I really do. And I hope that I can go thru my situation with as much class as you are yours.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I think I have enabled him...my counselor feels that he wasn't emotionally capable. So what was I to do?
He's not attending counseling on a regular basis...so no hope there. 

Do you think he just doesn't want to deal with any stressors (kids/wife/dog)? Although, divorce is a big stressor. Just wants to go it alone.

Ash: Thank you for your comments. This place has helped me tons. It takes time to overcome and get to a better place. A process.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

You might have that is why I asked, but I can't see it based on what you have said clearly. Tell me again about his upbringing? The reason I ask is because when I started to feel so low about me with my w I too started to withdrawal not only from her, but from them as well. I was ashamed that I wasn't living up to be the perfect son, cause that is how I tried to differentiate myself from my older brother (dam did I just say that?). New revelation.

Maybe that is it - because I did it too. And then some small things you did might have "enabled him" but you aren't a narcissist like my w, so I scratch my head on that.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> mls: That would make it difficult. Did you see any patterns that were different? Taking more care with his looks. Staying out at different times. Having more "work" to do than usual. Not wanting sex suddenly. I know this was prior to separation-but looking back.


I honestly didn't see anything totally different prior to our separation. Although he volunteered to take on more responsibilities at work on the weekends, which I recently learned was to avoid being with me. He started hanging out more with the college kids that worked for him during the summer. I never did feel comfortable when he spent time with them since he is their supervisor but I knew the kids and was often invited to join them (which I rarely did). 

The weekend before he told me about his feelings, he turned me down for sex so he could go to work. Mind you, at this point I was only home on the weekends due to my new job. I knew something was up then; however, that was the only time he flat turned me down.

All of this sure does point to something else that is going on at his work. Not sure if it's an OW or just an attention issue. 

As for your situation CW, I still think your H blames himself for all the issues he's been through. I think he blames himself for your depression, the financial crisis, the issues with your S. I think he thinks that if he removes himself from the situation the problems will be solved. However, it's clear he wants to be friends with you and is having a very hard time detaching. 

But that's just my 2 cents.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: His upbringing: His mom and dad were married when my H was 4. He was adopted by his "dad" and is the only one he remembers. The bio. dad was never involved and he has never known met him.

His parents have been married for like 40 years..happily. His Dad from a prior marriage had 3 girls that lived with their mother. He had little contact until they were adults. My H was raised as on only child.

The setting in the house was structured and light (feeling). For the most part it was light and superficial. Every thing was, in my mind, a Hallmark card. I knew his family since I was 14 years old. It was the perfect family. Nice and sweet. Had dinner together every night. My H was taught respect and morals and work ethic. However, there was never a crisis. You didn't really talk about feelings. He felt his Dad's punishment was harsh. That could have been the day and age and also his dad was retired military. 

There were little things that have a surprised me along the way. He couldn't take baths growing up? He was intimidated by his father (probably due to discipline). Not so much now. They didn't go to my H's sporting events much in HS. That surprised me as my H was a state champion and the only child? They were busy with their lives. He would have to ride his bike (3) miles to make a 6 am practice every morning before he had a car. Little things like that.

He really, by my accounts, had a pretty good childhood. It wasn't open and honest though. Still isn't in that household. But overall, they are good people.

The one thing, that I know my H is curious about is his bio. dad. Years ago I asked him and he said he "didn't care" and "never thought about him." Now, since he had a few sessions (months ago) and all of these problems have arisen he is curious. He WILL not ask his mom as to not offend. She just may be offended as she doesn't want to offend his dad (see what I mean). I asked her one night about the bio. dad and was he involved prior to the divorce. She didn't have much to say...other than "he was just immature. I have never spoken bad about him." Hmm. 

mls: If he blames himself and I told him "it's ok" or I told him "I understand" then I would hope to help him remedy his guilt/shame. Here I go trying to make things better. How do you keep someone from blaming themselves?

I think mls that the college kids may hold the key. Not that he has OW but perhaps they got him to thinking or feeling different about his life. Almost the "wishing" he could be free like them. Somewhere down that road. Maybe he has a crush or do have a crush on one of the girls. These feelings must have been stirred somehow. Add that he was already having feelings of unhappiness (that you didn't know about) plus your absence during the week=recipe for "I'm leaving."


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

As I was reading about your H, CW, I just can't wrap my brain around why he's choosing divorce.

Other than the love word, it sounds just like J who claims it's what he needs to work on himself. I wonder if these guys think that less responsbility will enable them to feel better about themselves?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

wren: I think they are overwhelmed by life. I'm not sure why so sudden. Or was it not sudden but slowly brewing over time? 

Being overwhelmed is how I see my H. Unable to express his feelings and not knowing what to do about it. Feeling of not being good enough or inferior to me and others play a role as well.

All of this has nothing to do with me. Life is stressful. When you are married you have a wife that may annoy you or push your buttons. When you have kids they may get into trouble or get rude. Work sometimes sucks. The markets crash. You get flat tires. Sometimes they happen over time and sometimes these happen all at once (short period of time).

For my H, he had these happen in a short period of time. He went with escaping. Now...he's on the path and doesn't want to get off. 

My counselor said he filed really fast...after he announced that he still wanted a divorce. That was back in mid Sept. He has slowed the process down a bit. Mostly because he got some relief from filing. He's working toward his goal. The funny thing (or not) is that once it's final. He was be more pained than he has ever been in his life. He's looking for relief but it's going to backfire.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Cw I am thinking about you heaps - none of it makes any sense - makes me so sad reading your story...........I wonder will time give you answers or only detachment? I'd like to be able to offer some advice and see things from his persepctive - but I can't - especially when I read that list - who was it who said that it is only natural to move away from pain? I think it was WP - and that makes sense for both of our H's this idea that they are moving from pain - 
where does that pain come from ? 
will they find relief? 
They are missing out on the real chance to develop themselves and to grow up - they are missing out on being truly loved and accepted - 
I do see them as running away - I really do...


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, in a lot of ways you described my family except I had a brother. So they didn't pay attention to him much, yes on the surface but emotionally -- his fear of abandonment. Mom probably made comments to him about "not being like other men" I would bet based on first husband. Not direct open things about his bio dad, but comments like that. Fear of punishment from his dad.

See a lot of the elements that could form a NG. Trying to be the nice guy for mom, be perfect to shine, hide flaws, etc. Tht is where is shame of family comes in -- he isn't perfect in his mind. Of course they don't really expect him to be, but never said it to him. This has been building up over a life time CW.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

"The grass is greener" fits here. Also mid-life crisis.. Add that to change of the unknown. Sometimes in their life people feel trapped and they run to something they think they want but when they get there it isn't. Now they are somewhere they don't know how to get out of.. He could be stuck..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW - why did he say he was leaving again? The same as my H isn't it - 'not in love'....
my counsellor is a professed cynic about 'in love' but she says she is surprised at how prevalent it is and when someone feels that this is missing it can be fatal...
I am beginning to hate the word love (just joking)
CW - what does your counsellor think? about why he's gone?
does she think he'll come back? I know they don't always say stuff like this....


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Once again, I think LH hit the nail on the head!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks guys for the responses! I'm wondering at this point, if there is anything left for me to say or do? He has always listened to me.

K: It was hard for him to describe. He didn't want to hurt my feelings. I told him "you already are!" He said "I know you don't like this expression...but I love you but I am no longer in love with you. I don't feel an attraction." That is all I ever got. 

My counselor hasn't said if she thinks he will return. She said he's definitely running and isn't emotionally capable. She sees me at detaching now. I do too.

FA: Interesting similarities. Do you think your brother is a NG? Just wondering.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

No CW he wasn't and isn't an NG. He was always getting into trouble with parents, and I saw that and didn't want to get in trouble, ya know don't rock the boat.


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

CW, Did you mention in previous posts that H had started drinking quite a bit during your marriage? If so, is he still drinking more than what a person would consider "normal"? Does he have any alcoholism in his family?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

D8zd: My H has always been a few beers a week type of guy. Then he moved to wine about 8 years ago (a few glasses a week or holidays). 

The past few years he started buying wine on a regular basis (collecting). He had favorites and enjoyed the wine. I noticed for about 2 years..he would drink more at home than usual. Instead of an occasional glass, it became a few glasses. In the beginning, I would give him a "look." We all know the "look" right?

Well, I quit doing that for along while. He's obnoxious when he's drunk or buzzed. He's high energy anyway and add alcohol to it-yuk! I would just ignore, bite my tongue, or walk away.

Staring the Summer of 08...I noticed he was drinking more. Hiding it in dixie cups. I'm not sure if it was from me or from the kids. It was obvious to me. I would go to bed and he would stay up a few hours later. This was unusual as we kinda always went to bed around the same time. Not always but for the most part. 

Then, during that time...I found those purple Crown Royale Bags. They were stuffed in our lockers that we have coming from the garage. I found like 20! I tossed them. Didn't know he had the taste for Crown. Not like that! I couldnt' tell you if they were there for years or months.

He mentioned that he thought he was drinking too much. I didn't say anything. His best friend, told him he was "OK" with the drinking as his friend is a sober alcoholic for 20 years. My H listened to him. My suggestion, for my H, was "if you are questioning your drinking than it's too much!"

His mom was a closet drinker. Still is. She has years where my H and I didn't want to talk to her past dinner time or you'd get the slobbering, pity party! Now she's on track to more of a sober type life. Or at least not drunk. 

Is he a drunk? No. Does he drink more since he's had his issues? Yes. He know it doesn't help. He knows he is doing more than he needs. He know its a cover up to his feelings/anxiety. 

The funny thing it's a double edged sword for him. He is a healthy eater and very athletic man. But this is his downfall. It's hard to wake up at 6 am and ride 60 miles after you drank too much.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> So....what makes a person run away to feel more miserable?


Because he thinks he deserves it.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

dobo: You are right. It goes along with his words "I know you think I am being selfish." Translation: "I am entitled to be selfish for once."


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

CW...

If you're interested/curious, go to books.google.com and search for "codependent no more". If it lets you, click the contents link and choose chapter 10 - Live your own life. Maybe this explains some of your H's actions. Dunno.

An interesting line from the book: "Taking care of ourselves is not as selfish as some people assume it is, but neither is it as selfless as many codependents believe."


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

My ex-husband calls it "enlightened self-interest".


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

D8zd: It wouldn't let me see Chapt. 10. I supposed he may be been codependent. Not sure anymore. I guess the drinking part was what triggered you to say so?


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

Yes, the drinking part got me thinking about it. But the book I mentioned isn't just related to or for alcoholics. Just thinking out loud. That's all.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Corpus, How do you keep yourself together going through all of this


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Corpus is one of the most impressive people I've ever come across.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yes there is something special about her that's for sure!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes, she is a rock. That is what is so confusing about this.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

OK guys! Enough!!! It's because of you that I am sane! Really where else am I going to be able to vent 24/7 without someone running away reaaallllly fast!

I've always had a steady head and heart. The circumstances are what they are...but I'm still steady. 

Maybe I am too steady for my H. Maybe I should have shown weakness and fallen apart? Maybe he put me on a pedastal and I didn't get down? 

I appreciate you positive comments. I sure could use them

I went on a job interview today. Don't think that I got the job. Not sure if I even wanted the job (different field). I got my interview experience and the HR guy started thinking of place he could put me within the organization. 

However, it's funny how things work out. I was going to cancel. I didn't. Ended up being a different kind of job (in a good way) than I thought it was going to be. Like I said it was good PR on my part for the HR guy. 

Ended up with ANOTHER call today for an interview on Monday. It's more in my field. I interviewed for the same job a month ago and didn't get (when I thought I would) it. 

I've decided to try my best. Let God do the rest.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Way to go CW. I hope the jobs pan out for you. 

It must be nice to start thinking about your future and options for your career. 

I agree about being level headed. I have friends that always comment on how I am very mellow. Maybe my H hated that about me. Maybe I should have thrown his clothes out on the lawn to get a rise out of him!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I hope you get one of these jobs. And you aren't sane because of us -- that comes from within. You are a rock 

Gotta ruuuuuuunnnnnnnnnn aaaaaaaaawwwwwwaaaaaaaaa now.

By the way everyone, party at CW's house this weekend........


I bet your D would love that.......


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Actually this weekend a party would be great! My kids will be gone and I have a party house. Really I do! So...if you can come visit PM me and I'll give you directions!! 

And FA...you can run but I'd prefer you to stay. (Isn't that a nice way to guilt you into staying?)

Otherwise...I'll have to hang with my single friends. One wants to go to the playhouse and see Rocky Horror Picture Show (live). Maybe that's an option. I don't know what else to do..it's seems I always figure out something. 

Beside the party at my house...what are your plans everybody?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Baseball, shopping for son's birthday, getting ready for son's party, friends 50th party....wish I could come to your house though - reckon we'd have a blast -


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Alas I've got to coach baseball and soccer games this weekend. Some time I'll hit the Texas Coast. I have a couple of good friends in Big D.

No guilt for me. Trying to be guilt free which is what I always felt with the W. Sometimes it was imagined guilt about a possible outcome. Now who cares.

By the way, do the Time Warp for me. Used to go to the Kings Court Theatre in Pittsburgh when I was in high school to see the midnight show of RHPS. It was a blast. It was one of those places that did it up.

What's your favorite color????

Magenta.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

C.. You offer parenting/wife classes?? My wife could use the ability to do all that and still have a drive for the marriage. Hell I could do all the rest just teach her to have a drive for the marriage...  You are an amzingly strong women I envy.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH: Thanks! I'd imagine it's part of the personality...the drive. I have it with most things that I care about!

Sometimes I think I care too much.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

C- Thats never a problem.. Caring brings good feelings.. Expectations is what brings in bad.. It's the evil to caring


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH,

Got to ask you a questions. When you were being "the man" did you also have expectations when caring?


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

of course.. That's why we ended up the way we did.. I with held love from her cause I wasn't getting the same effort in return. I gave and gave and gave the way men should but she wasn't happy.. I looked at her as a child and no longer did we have an adult relationship but a father/child. Now the way I went about getting her to help was in fact beating her down. I kept pushing for her to do it "MY" way and that didn't work.. Now I learned to let her be her. Help her along by explaining what I wanted and needed instead of beating it into her. This gives her the opportunity to do it her way along with giving me what I want. We are not there yet. She keeps telling me she is working on it and to have patience... Though its hard cause the stress is through the roof for me if you followed my tale..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes I know the stress is through the roof. I did a lot of the same things, but my w disconnected totally unlike yours. Now with the OM(s), I doubt - unless she acknowledged her wrong, asked for forgiveness, and showed she was willing to work on her issues, that we could ever be together.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA mine did disconnect. She told EVERYBODY we are done. She didn't care if I slept with somebody else in fact she hoped I would to justify her anger more and say see he's a jerk. She was so mad she couldn't stand to look at me without her blood boiling. Now 2 months later she seems to love me more then ever before. I would love to think I did that on my own but sad part is I didn't. She just realized I think a lot was herself issues.. That and a number of people telling her she couldn't do better.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well my w doesn't have anyone telling her that. In fact I would imagine it would be the other way around. Of course none of these people know me at all. And I don't mean casual acquaintances not knowing me, I mean people that I've never met and of course OM#1. 

She doesn't and won't talk with her mom about it.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

LH So you realised that you had to accept how she was/is ...and love WITHOUT expectation? WOW that is so awesome...but as you acknowledge it has 'worked' this time because she also (somewhere deep down) wants it to....?still takes two doesn't it? 
FA - that's out problem our ex's don't want it to work (for whatever reasons) - my theory is that they are being held ransom by their personalities....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

That's right K. It is unfortunate. I think for my w to many negative outside influences haven't help my situation.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yeah - but that's also her personality - easier to be led than to make up her own mind...
my H is big now on making up his own mind despite what everyone says...
so many people have said to him - get a grip - go home...
he is adamant that he now does what _he_ wants...
so the reasons why they don't want to make it work are different but end result the same...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH: You done extremely well considering your W was "done." You keep loving her, in a different way, regardless. I think that was the key for you and her-understanding. You changed the dynamics of the relationship. Plus, having your SIL push for your marriage was right on!

I wish I had folks pushing him into the marrriage. Everybody is sooooo supportive. Although my H NEVER talks to anyone about the relationship anyway.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

LH and Corpus...how do you change the dynamics of a relationship? How do you know if that's what you need to do and how do you go about doing it?


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

and to add to Ash's question, how do you know if you're really succeeding and not jsut being "played"?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Ash: You can only change you. That changes the dynamics but doesn't always change their minds regarding out/in/affair/etc.

The fact is, over time, and my heart breaking along the way...you can't change anyone. They have to willing and a participant.

hoping: Time will tell.....if it's being "played" that can't last for long.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Yes if you want to change it you have to say I want better and make the first move. My wife always told me she had 2. So I stepped up and wanted it bad enough. I endured a lot of pain and had to look like a fool for her but it was so worth it. 

Fa. My wife didn't talk to any family either that's why she was so mad cause I talked to them and she couldn't tell lies cause they knew I qa upfront with them
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Bad day today...having some trouble with my son (nothing unexpected) but don't feel like sharing. It's sad though.

The double whammy is I feel like blaming my H. I think he blames himself (as usual)...I feel like is as well but don't dwell on it.

Never think you are finished raising your kids after high school. Sometimes, when they are adults they need more care/help than ever. 

I don't have energy to do much. I am forcing myself out of the house tonight to go to dinner with a friend. I need to quit thinking. I pray that I get to sleep tonight.

The thing is my H and I need each other more than ever. We work so much better as a team than an individual. Why can't he figure this out. Sometimes...I feel that I must have been a pretty bad wife for him to leave. He would disagree...of course. I think he put all of the blame on himself.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Go to the playhouse and see Rocky Horror. It will be a blast I promise. I assume you've seen the movie at least. I wish I could see it. JUst plain old fun. Throw hot dogs every time they say Dr. Frankenfurter, do the Time Warp, etc. Just be a kid for a night.

Sometimes that all us adults need -- to just be a kid again with no worried, no cares. I'm talking the real and serious cares, not high school cares.

Have a great evening CW. I will get those directions some day and visit. Always wanted to head down there to see what it was all about. I just hope I can meet H.


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

So sorry to hear your having a yucky day Corpus. But they do come don't they? It does seem to hurt more when there's something going on and you need their support. That is the way I have feeling since I found out about my friend's illness. I need my H more. Hopefully tomorrow will be a brighter day for us all.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW parenting alone after doing it as a team has to be one of the most painful and frustrating thinsg I have tried to do - and it has sh** to do with being in 'love'....


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

I'm sorry CW. I hope tomorrow is a better day for you and your son.

Get some good sleep!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks to all...it will be a difficult time for my son.

It will be a difficult time for our family.

Your support has meant the world to me.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Thinking of you


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, hope things are better today for you.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Hello Corpus hope you and your family are doing well. I don't know any of you but in these past few days I find myself when I think of my H..what would corpus do? How would she respond. I will pray for you.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks again guys! I am doing better than yesterday. The circumstances haven't changed but my outlook is different. 

I went out with a friend last night to Mexican and margaritas! We sat on a back deck of a local bar(quiet/relaxing) and chatted nonstop. My friend is a such a kind person..called me to see how I was doing this AM. We have plans for a comedy show this PM. It's good to laugh!!

I prayed that I could get some rest and I did. It wasn't a full 8 hourss but it was better than the week before.

My H called this AM to check on things. He is on his way to amusement park with my D. We had a chat. Our talking relationship is about the same as it was before. 

I didn't mention this to you guys. My H had problem with his landlord and they guy ended up dieing (unexepectedly). Anyway, the wife (was soon to be ex) came back to settle things (probate). She told my H that her H didn't pay the electric/water as he needed. My H has a condo with all bills paid. Well that didn't happen. Now they are threatening to shut off everthing. 

My H said he was looking at extended stay places, when we met in person yesterday. I didn't say anything. 

I ended up e-mailing him a short note..last night. I told him that I didn't want to stir trouble or offend but I offered for him to move back in the house. We have some spare rooms and all. In my mind, it would be short term as we are divorcing soon and he's moving back into the house anyway. 

The thing is we aren't fighting and we could go about our business. He probably won't need to move back anyway..I just told him that I loved him and cared about his life. I felt a very strong movement to tell him this...I suppose I was emotional yesterday and is spurred me to do this. I don't regret it today.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW that was a sensible and kind offer - and one that you wouldn't have made if you weren't on top of things - the proof is that you are okay today with it... wonder whether he'll take you up? I have often thought my H would still be here if we had a (much) bigger house...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I wouldn't mind but it would be "different" as I have my new routines and all. I figure if we ever get together to meet and divide things then the divorce may happen soon (November). 

It was quiet last week and no meeting set.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Wow CW! I'm in awe of you and your courage.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm not sure courage vs. stupidity??? What am I asking-am I stirring the hornets nest?

In all likelihood, he won't accept for one reason or another. If the W wants to have is rented...my H is a great tenant. So she either takes care of the electric or he moves. Either way...she'll need to take care of the electric.

In boils down to loving a person. He is in a crisis and even though he is being stupid and selfish...he's reacting. 

I think of how I would want to be treated.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

CW, I admire the fact that you still want and can be friends with your H. 

My H and I are friendly but I can't be friends with him. I don't want to be friends with someone who up and decides in a matter of months that their life is better off without me in it. 

I just hope everything works out the best for you and your H. My thoughts go out to you.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm not sure I want to be friends with him either. I guess I am just friendly. Would I share my secrets or tell him my feelings about things-probably not. 

He's hurt me..no doubt. I have a wall of protection-I'm no dummy. 

I could be friends again, if he were acting like my H. I love him. I respect him in many ways. Right now...I am just going with what feels right.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Hmmm yep that is where you get to isn't it? it's a bit of intuition, a bit of experience and a bit of judgement - all those make up what you are feeling....so it's not rash impulsive feeling - very different sense of the word I think ....


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

No way I could be friends with my wife if she left. i told her that. It would be very bitter. I think when you hurt somebody that bad thats how t feels.. If your truely in it there is no way it can be easy. If your disconnected it is. Though I should be the one that should have run from our marriage.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

CW, do you think your empathy for your H helps you keep anger at bay, allowing you to be friendly with him?


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Maybe I should take your approach, CW. Maybe I should feel sorry for my H. I should feel sorry for the fact that he is missing out on sharing his life with one awesome individual... ME!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

mls: I think that stands to be a good approach and confident. Nothing wrong with a little confidence in these trying times.

It think the main reasons that I stay friendly towards him is he really hasn't done anything to "offend" me. I know he's left but I see it as HIS weakness and not mine. 

As I sit here...another hidden reason why I stay friendly is the hope that he will see our connection (again) someday. It's called hope! My sickness now is hope. It's what keeps me from saying "f..it" and moving on. It's what keeps me from telling him off. I don't always feel this way. Just today.

It's been a hard past few days. It looks like I am going to have to do some tough love with my son. It will be even harder with my son than it was with my husband. Try detaching from your children!


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Same with me and my H CW - 
hope it's a killer isn't it?

But it is just also who we are isn't it?
I have always thought it's easier in life to be friendly than not -
even in these circumstances - personally I found keeping up a show of antagonsim toward my H was more exhausting than a show of relatively warm friendliness - he get's no better or no worse than anyone else I meet with during the day ....

As for your son - I can only imagine what you are facing - children are worrying for all sorts of reasons - and far and away life's biggest challenge - I know with my youngest it is a constant battle - he was a very difficult toddler and I would hold onto to him so tight each morning when he came into bed for a cuddle because i knew that the rest of the day was going to be a fight...my theory with him (still is) if he likes me I am not doing my job...

Good luck with the tough love CW - good luck...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

K: We are alike in so many ways. I believe in the less energy the better regarding putting up a front. 

My son has been difficult since birth...not bad but difficult. He's now 21 and has to accept consequences and frankly those frighten me to death.

I remember being in Walmart, with one of my kids, and they were running around in the clothes. I was getting onto him/her (I can't remember which) and he said "I am NOT your friend anymore." 
I said "Good...my job is NOT to be your friend. I am your mother and will not be your friend anyway!" The lady next to me gave me the "look." I never liked the idea of the friend/parent relationship. My mother did it with my and it was totally unhealthy.
Today, I still have to set my boundaries. Of course, I am an adult but she wants too much of me. 

My H and D are returning from their trip (2 hours away). I suggested yesterday that we sit down and talk about our son. He called this afternoon and wanted to know if he could come over and cook dinner and then we could visit. I said yes.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Me too I am not 'freinds' with my kids - one day maybe - not now...
a big night for you CW -
good luck


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Good luck Corpus with your son...I'm 22 years old and I know for a fact that we (21 and 22 year olds) aren't exactly easy to deal with! Hope your night goes well


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

It sounds like your S is in need of some tough love. That must be hard.

Good for you for recognizing the parent/friend trap. My H has always been very tight with his parents. He even went as far to say that he thought of his parents as more of his big brother and sister (sound the weirdo alarms!). Totally unhealthy. 

I am close with my parents but there is a fine line there.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Well guys had the dinner. My H and I talked and he wanted to invite his sister and brother in law for dinner as well (spur of the moment). He called and they initially said "no thanks." Then about 5 minutes later called and said "we are on our way." 

I'm sure they were wondering "what's up with him?" I'm sure to get a call from my sister in law tomorrow. "What was that about?"

Before they showed up..my H was friendly and made himself at home in the kitchen. I was setting the table and he came up to me-close. He asked "can I give you a hug?" I said "sure." We hugged for awhile. 

We hugged when my D and him went home. I gave him a kiss on the cheek and said goodbye.

Very interesting????


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Oh Corpus - my heart is racing just reading it - how is yours?????


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I didn't get too excited. He seemed excited to be doing this. He feels for me regarding our son...so maybe that is the take. Maybe he wants the connection with me in regards to our son. I just don't know.

During a conversation..he said "I love you." It isn't the first time..he's said it. We have always agreed on that fact.

I can't afford to get my hopes up. My psyche can't take it! 

I thanked him for cooking the delicious meal. He said he'd cook again tomorrow, if I wanted him to. I said..."why don't you become my personal chef?" (joking). He said "you know I would."


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

OOOOOOhhhhhh can't stand it....these flirty jokes - what is going on with him????????????????????????????????


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

Yes I must agree!!!! I am so excited reading this. He is way more forward then my H. Who by the way cooked dinner this evening as well and took us all to the movies. But then left anyway. BOOOO! I know that even though we are all excited that you Corpus will keep your cool. It seems to be paying off. "I love you" is not something to be taken lightly.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I know this makes you cautious yet hopeful. I hope this is the beginning of the turn around for him.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

WOW, you are much more relaxed than I would be! Then again, you are more composed and emotionally sound than I am! I pray this is a breakthrough for you H, CW!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You know...as I wrote this last night I hadn't thought of it being a big deal.  He has all along pre-separation given me the mix messages. 

Somehow, this may have been a breakthrough. I noticed he was being nostalgic (sp?) during dinner. He had a few stories about our son and us. I just can't bear to put any fuel to this behavior. I have to protect myself. It may be that he's fearful regarding our son and is looking towards me for security. It could also be a coming together of missing family. He was a different man than he has been for many months.

You bet I am playing it cool. He knows I am moving on...feels it. Perhaps that is what is playing with his mind. I love him still but don't feel any overwhelming urge to ravage him. Not like that....I expect him to come to me. I won't ask relationship questions anymore (Why are you doing this? Are you sure you want this?). 

Over time...my prayers have changed. It used to be "change his mind." Now it's "soften his heart and put things in front of him that will reevaluate his decision to divorce. Put dreams and events that will have him question his decision." How's that for being specific? 

Well, God put the landlord...my son's crisis...and who know what else? May it's working. My H is choosing to look at things closer???


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Maybe I should pray that way for my w. That events will be placed in front of her which will lead her to understand herself and her traits better, so she can have a softer heart. And understand that life with someone is hard at times, but that is why the good times are so good.

CW, I'm am hopeful for you, but I know you will be cautious as well you should be. No need to go thruoght the emotional ringer again.

It will be interesting though over the next few weeks.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: Pray for your wife in that way. I believe the power of prayer. It may not turn out like we want. The person has free will and some never will understand or get the lesson. After a point, when so many things are laid on their laps, how can they deny that they may have been wrong or at least question their decisions? 

Especially, when I have been more than open and honest and loving. It goes against logic. However, for some logic means nothing.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I'm going to CW, I'm going to. I just did as well. Be I also need to be open, honest and loving toward her. Not in a relationship way, but in a friend way.

Thanks for that insight.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: It like the door is open...they can choose to walk through or not. You might as well be friendly towards her as you have a long road ahead of child rearing. However, you may not be ready given you circumstances. I am not so sure that I could if my H was screwing around.

My H called me when I was town and new I was driving in torrential rain. Wanted to know if i was "ok." These positive feelings are breeding more positive feelings...I can see it.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Same same guys - the positive stuff in me is breeding positive stuff in my H - I can see it 
when we spoke the other day he said that he had been a horrible father to the boys and only in the last week had he started parenting well again - this coincides with me easing up on him and giving out the unconditional love vibe - 
now perhaps it is wrong to begin to think that I am influencing his behaviour - but my gut and logic tells me otherwise...

but as CW says caution and self love and self protection is the most important part of this deal - logic doesn't mean a whole lot to our spouses at the moment - and in the case of my guy probably never will - wouldn't put it high on his list of strong points


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I would find it so so hard to pray for my H. I find it hard to have any postive thoughts for him whatsoever. Was it hard for you to do FA?


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

CW, I am hopeful for your situation. I would LOVE to hear a reconciliation story. 

I hope your H isn't just happy because he gets to be your friend. I hope he understands his actions and is willing to work on your marriage. 

Just keep doing what you are doing. However it works out, you'll be okay!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

mls: Of course I have my ideal makeup story in my head...what I wish would happen. I just don't think it will. Everything is set in place...love, caring, history, teamwork, friendliness. These are the things we had before he left.

What's the difference now? The attitude and demeanor. It's hard to explain. He is no longer pained looking. Before he left..he used to sigh quit a bit. He isn't as full of anger as well.

What am I still doing? I am still friendly and accepting. I don't give him ALL of my information in regards to what I am doing. If I need him to pick up our D then I tell him that "I need to go somewhere." I don't do details. Why? Because I feel that he needs to think/know that I am separate from him and our couplehood. Even though we both know this we still are used to our WAYS of marriage. On the other hand...he's an open book.

I still do not call him for anything other than children or mutual business (which is rare). No calling to chit chat or telling a story about a friend (like he does on occasion). 

When he needs advice or an opinion, I try to defer to his idea or opinions before I state my own. This is my hope the his NG tendencies will be deferred. I ask "what do you think? Is this something that you think is right/wrong? How else could we/you solve this issue?" Before, I would give my opinion first then he would.....follow (NG).

I am more open (now) in accepting his invites. Before, because of my tough love stance I would tell him "no thanks." Now...if he asks for the most part..I do. If I am confortable that is...

Ash: You are still very raw. It's ok to pray for him...even if you don't mean it. Try it. If you can't....that's ok too.

mls: I would love the reconciliation story but I just don't have it. The most I can hope for is my H doesn't proceed with the divorce. Every week that goes by is for a reason. My son's issues has put a hold on things this week. My H will be back soon (I bet) with "when can we meet to divide our assets!" I always say..."you pick the time and place." I said it two weeks ago. 

My in-laws (H's parents) recently started my Thanksgiving plans and invited everyone for dinner. I told them that I wasn't sure how I was going to feel. They understood. I probably could do it now. But if the divorce is moving forward, I don't want to be emotional.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

I don't know about you CW but as time goes by (although I still hope for my H and I to reconcile) I feel like the reality of it happening slips away...the thing that is missing in our cases is their desire /their will to do this - everything else - every other reason is there...so the logic is there - but the desire to stay away is stronger than that to return -

my H said that he had suicidal thoughts before he left and that he has always had 'significant' doubts about 'us' (he emphasises the word significant when he mentions it!!! heee heee - just so I can't counter with we all have doubts! ) 

he also said he didn't plan on leaving me - I believe this - he left his 15 year relationship impulsively and returned impulsively - the question for him is whether he'll continue to act impusively - or he'll think about things and start acting 'like an adult' even if he doesn't feel like one - heck who feels like an adult????

Your H seems more controlled but I don't think he is - the more I read of your story it sounds more like a 'classic' mid-life crisis - (a bit early perhaps) but really your H had EVERYTHING by the sound of it...

it's like they need to risk it all - there's something primal that drives it...(that's what I have read anyway)....

but CW as brilliant, kind and smart as we are we have our limits - we will run out of compassion and care = we will fall out of love - that's what I think anyway - 

it will be extinguished and we will be in another place ....that's what I 'see' happening....


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

K: I hope that we do fall out of love...like they have. It would be much easier huh?

I never quit get your H's "can't do us." Why couldn't he do "us?" What was wrong in the relationship? I have those same questions for my H. I never get a real reason. I would love to hear..."you never....." Something give me something please. 

We may never get the answers. If your H had suicidal thoughts before he left..he was depressed. I am willing to be that he still is...Men for the most part don't leave to be ALONE. That is what my counselor said. Unless, they had a horrible marriage (abuse/addiction/affairs) would they usually leave to go alone. Going alone and isolating like my H is an indication of self esteem and depression etc. 

My H said today.."I'm not a great parent like you." I said "C..what are you talking about you are a great parent. There are no rules here." He said "well..I am a good parent but I'm not good at making decisions like you in regards to parenting." I told him that I don't know the answers and if my decisions were do brilliant than my son wouldn't be in this situation! He thinks I am the magic person. The person that can make everything happen (on a pedestal). He's getting that I'm not failure proof.

Also, he said he was not only bad with decisions in parenting but also the divorce. I didn't ask what that meant? What decisions? Maybe he means the division of assets. Who really knows?

He's down on himself. I can't solve his problems or any one elses. I give up. I have to save myself!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash,

No it wasn't hard to do. I thought it might be, but it wasn't. I still care about her and her to be happy. So I did pray for her.

CW,

He needs to get to the realization that only he makes him happy and to do that he needs to make decisions (right or wrong) and stand by them. He is still trying to be the pleaser with those statements.


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

CW, 

Has H ever been diagnosed with depression or anxiety? Sounds like he either has a bit of depression or some self-esteem issues.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

He is depressed and has anxiety. He took Zanax at night to sleep and during the day when things were crazy (pre-separation). Not all the time but during the tougher times. 

I've told him that I believe he's depressed...more than once. I've asked him to share these thoughts with his counselor. He said he would but never did. He doesn't go to counseling much anymore. Pre separation he said he was depressed because he was going through a divorce. OK??? 

He's got it all but maybe unwilling to do anything. He's waiting for something to magically appear.


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

"He's waiting for something to magically appear."

I can relate. I believe I am waiting for someone to magically appear and help me resolve my own situation. "Feel the fear and do it anyway" book is helping me a bit with my marital issues
.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

D8zd...I think this isn't uncommon the "magic pill" or "magic appearance." Eventually, you get sick of it and start digging yourself out.

That is how I felt with my depression.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Too true - and the phrase digging yourself out is so apt...it is like digging into yourself - you turn around and around and then you realise there is only one person - you and the only place to dig is deep...ahh so nice to be able to have unstressful relationship chat with you guys...it is like a drug for me


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

The turning and around and around part...it took me awhile to figure out the my happiness was within me. I was looking in all the wrong places.

I'm glad I am no longer in the hole.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Like all these cliches that are simple but not easy to understand - and sometimes hard to live by - but I do believe when you learn something properly, thoroughly, with the heart you lern it for life...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I got to thinking this AM. What a bad time to be divorced....during the holidays and just before my 25th anniversary! Of course, is there reallly a good time to be divorced? ha

I am wondering K...does your H bring any significance to your relationship? I don't know such as..."I will always care or love you. Or, you are the mother of my kids..." type thing. Does your H tend to put you above others (or at least pre-problems)..."you always do the right thing. Or, you seem to know the right things to say."


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

my wife does some times..... (emphasis on *SOME TIMES* )

i try to make an effort to do these things (even when she doesn't deserve to hear it, i think that's when she needs it the most...?) i do know i fall a little short at times though.. hey i'm human after all 

i hope you can find a way to enjoy your day, regardless of your situation. best of luck to you and many many smiles.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Corpus Holidays are great times to reconnect. It usually brings out past feelings of good times. I know when I went through this with my wife 5 years ago she returned just before x-mas. I hope he starts to feel it soon.. Sorry about not folowing as much its hard when I am barely on computer. D uses it all the time and its one area in my life I am trying to remove to focus more on marriage..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> I got to thinking this AM. What a bad time to be divorced....during the holidays and just before my 25th anniversary! Of course, is there reallly a good time to be divorced? ha
> 
> I am wondering K...does your H bring any significance to your relationship? I don't know such as..."I will always care or love you. Or, you are the mother of my kids..." type thing. Does your H tend to put you above others (or at least pre-problems)..."you always do the right thing. Or, you seem to know the right things to say."


CW that's a good question. He has said "K, I think I'll always love you" (as though no other way to 'be' in life) ....but I am not sure he understood this - he says things and they have no 'meaning' sometimes - and when he was back he said "you wil always have it over every other woman because you are the mother of my kids" but he didn't mean it - he was copying something I had said - what are you getting at?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

hoping: That's a great attitude. You wife probably does need to hear it when she deserves it less...

LH: I totally get it in regards to the computer. It can be all consuming. You have your wife at home...you are lucky that way. So much positive progress has been made. You holidays will be special this year. I'm hoping for the same reconnection with my spouse. I just can't get too hopeful. I have to be careful

K: So it seems that he does put significance to the relationship. You will always be the mother to his kids and be "one up" the other women he comes across. K...he really doesn't have a reason to NOT love you. I know he blames you for his issues/problems but really what have you done?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

cw - sometimes I think our brains are connected!

Yes and No with J...I am not sure he 'gets' that - well maybe he does...your h gets that doesn't he?

CW, I think the thing is with J is that he so much takes our realtionship for granted still that he thinks he can have this 
"amazing ex wife, mother of his kids" and "the true love of his life"...
at the same time - two different people....

and I guess he can...(I think this fuels his imagination now) 

I never get the impression that your H is looking for the "love of his life" like mine is though CW - I think he is just running away..... 
your H knows he had the best life can offer doesn't he?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

K: I don't know what my H is looking for...I guess not me???
He's never told me the things that your H has told you. My H has never told me that he was looking for someone better (that would be too mean for him). 

Of course, when I asked if he was looking for or having an affair..he said "no way, I am not looking for anyone right now. I don't have anyone waiting in the wings. I just want to be alone." I'm not sure what he expects out of life. I think you are right. He is running. Running for the pain.

My H loves me clearly. He clearly wants to be connected...site multiple calls today alone (of course kid related). He wants me to know how important I am to him (yesterday...."S I will always take your calls first."). He wants to take care of me (we can wait on the divorce until you get health insurance).

NG tendencies..you but. However, it may be the underlying guilt. Or, it may be the he really does want to be a good guy and finish up business on a good note. Isn't the nice. As I said before, the Friendliest Divorce In Texas!

My H seeks to not talk about relationships and difficult things. At least your H is looking for the truth and attending counseling and reading self help books. He may be saying some things that he really feels (at this point). That is VERY good as he may come around eventually. 

My H seems to be softening but I gotta tell you...it me trying to interprete signals, patterns, and conversations (again). That is why it so clear, to me, to move on and move forward.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yes CW - if this is his version of love I am afraid it is not doing you any favours -
we mustn't let oursleves get sucked in to responding to their signs again - we have been doing that for years -
we really do just have to move on....as though there is an invisible protective bubble around us that projects us forward and deflects their bullets -
he may need a close relationship with you - but I do think honestly that you may need to think about whether that is in your best interests...
it may be - and I am not trying to give you advice here -
I am grappling with exact same issues - although my H is keener for me to think he doesn't care for me and not fuel any 
"false hope" - 
is there such a thing?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well CW, I think he is starting to get it. As you said things have been laid in his path recently that have him thinking and not just what is going on between you and him. Hopefully he is realizing that life is precious (i.e. the landlord) and you need to be with the ones you truly love. I think this might be the beginning. But it will probably take time and although I know you hope, it might not be in your time frame.

K, your H is definitely moving forward with working on himself. All you can be is supportive, caring, but protective of yourself. Keep up the good work.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: Should I smack him upside the head to speed things along? haha

K: I will "let go" if it becomes painful. Right now...it's not for some strange reason. It's getting easy to talk to him. I have NO reaction to whether it's his number I see or not. Now for the "false hope" thing...I am not sure how well I do on that front? 

I can't trust my intuition regarding him. I didn't know he was unhappy for a few years before he said so. Every time, he moved toward my direction I would hope that this would be "it." The time that he turned toward me again. NOPE. Even pre-separation, a few weeks before, I saw how hard it was for him....in my mind that meant "second thoughts." NOPE. THE LMBT was the "magic pill" and would have him coming running back. NOPE. Now..indicators of less pain; cooking dinner at my house; constant communication. I don't DARE pin too much HOPE now!


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I feel out of my league giving you some advice but maybe I'll remind you of some things that you constantly are needing to remind me! (Thank you!!) Keep doing what your doing Corpus. Just keep doing what your doing. Dont' read into anything, it will only set you up for disappointment if it doesn't turn out how you want. Keep focusing on you and your children and if he comes around to be in the "big picture" of your life, he will be there! Just focus on you and it will fall into place.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yeah CW give a good old smack with one of the books he should be reading.

Like Ash said keep on doing what you are doing. Only time will tell.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

CW--- If you can tell him that he hurt the marriage a lot more by holding his feelings in.. That if he thought he was trying to not hurt you by saying something tell him your hurting now. What was the difference.. This is a battle with my wife and I am still reinforcing her open communication.. That if she feels something good or bad say it. I am not a mind reader and can not change past so address now and move on. I am getting so tired of people holding things in saying I'm trying not to hurt..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH: I don't know..I've quit talking about the relationship. He's out of the house and filed...I've talked myself to death! haha

Oh my have told him....when he says "I don't want to be mean. I don't want to hurt you." I would tell him "it's too late. I am already hurt." I would go on to say many things...

Now, talking about the relationship just sends him running and defensive. 

You have a good point, LH..reinforcing open communication. That is one that that I have been doing. Also, I have been asking him "what do you think is best?" In the past, I've spoken my mind then asked. Now, he goes first...so I don't influence him.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Yeah thats good. Forcing him to say something.. The other good phrase is "How can I help you".. It only leads to good..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I just spent a few hours with my sister in law today (my H's sister). We had a lovely time. She had my H over last Saturday and said he was saying how he loved me and cared for me still. He was doing the no longer "in love" thing.

It makes me sad to keep hearing this over and over again. Why can't he get that our connection is more than butterflies and lust? I feel like I've lost a part of me that I keep chasing. I can't catch it. If I do...it will just leave again.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW - it is cathartic to spend time with 'their' family but also painful - they share things with you - I have had similiar feedback from my Sister In Law - she is however convinced that he 'doesn't love himself' and that is the problem. But still last time I spoke to her she said that he seemed calmer - and that hurt me - (I know that is such a mean way of thinking on my part - but I stewed on that for days). 

He knows that your connection is more than butterflies and lust 

Even he can communicate and acknowledge that 

He doesn't think he is losing this - he trusts you so much - you are so constant in his life (his soul) that this can't be lost.

Let's face it no-one moves on from 24 years without a deep deep connection - 

I think that (like my H) they completley take us and what we have given them spiritually, emotionally, physically for granted. 

They are this simple - they have no subtle emotional skills - no delicacy - 

My H sees the risk in treating me like this but knows me well enough to know I'll alwasy be 'there' for him over the kids -

HE is willing to sacrifice everything else - because he believes this can be replaced and improved with new woman....

really he is that simple - 

I am not sure if yout h is thinking like this?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

K you are so good with words. You immediately make me feel better! Thank you.

You seem so sure that your H is looking for somone else. I suppose it has to do with his OW he had a crush on.

Mine doesn't have a crush or even is looking for something (according to what I see/read/heard). 

It's like I tell myself..."it's all him." Sometimes, I think I must have been bad enough for my H to leave and go it alone.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

But maybe it is time for you to venture out and have a date, CW. We'll see how long the "not in love" thing lasts then.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Oh CW you are welcome.

My H has said all the way through "I have always thought that I could be happier, things would be easier with someone else" 

that is why I think he is looking for love

as for the OW he is still unsure about that - he knows now what infatuation is - his psych must have helped him understand that word - because he said the other day that's what it was - but I don't think that means for a minute that he doesn't have a fairly active imagination still where she is concerned and that he isn't hoping to make good on his infatuation.

If he wasn't seeing a psych he would have been with her for a year already - (or not depending on how it went)

Of course my H is driven by wanting a different 'better' experience of love and realtionships...his version of ours is full of pain and feeling false and untrue - of hurting and being hurt..of dishonesty and despair - he can't see the good because he is filled with these thoughts now...

He doesn't know what the future holds - but he doesn't ever want to go back to where he was with me - hurting and being hurt.

He can't see the good - the happiness and the love - - he may one day look back more evenly - who knows?

It seems like you H's situation is way more 'out of character'? would you say that?

oh yes and I have just read dobo's post - I tend to agree.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I agree with Dobo. You asked permission remember. Just a coffee or something simple, not a big dinner date or anything. Or you could just say you had coffee with a real interest person you met at the gym to see if that lights a fire under is [email protected]#.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Or at least fake a date. I did that to my wife the first time. It did change her thinking a bit
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Guys...I have kinda done the "fake date" as LH said. 

I will say.."I need to meet someone, can you pick up our D." I've dropped others hints as well.

Even if a did a real date...who would know? He wouldn't have a clue unless a friend saw and what are the odds? 

At this point our stress level is high with our son. He hasn't mentioned a peep regarding the divorce. It's like we can only deal with one crisis at a time.

I would be half way tempted to "date" if my son wasn't in crisis mode. The timing is off now.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Meeting someone is too ambiguous. You have to say, "I have a date."

Have you considered taking your son to see someone?


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

CW, have you ever thought of telling your H that you can't take being his friend anymore? I know you said you didn't mind being in contact with your H while he was trying to maintain a friendship. 

However, what if you said you can't take it anymore? What if you said, "I need you to be there for me and our kids; however, I can't take it when you invite me over for drinks or have dinner with us and act like nothing is wrong and I get nothing in return. You need to either be my H or get the heck out." Or something like this.

I know this is tough. But it seems as though he does need a fire under his @ss to make him realize that he may lose the woman he spent 24 years with!!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

dobo: He has seen a counselor for a year. However, his problem is a little more involved. He has to figure out things for himself. 

When things calm down...I will be more direct and say "I have a date." He will probably say..."I don't want to know. We don't have to make each other jealous." Just a prediction. I guess I got that answer when I had previous plans to fly to Mississippi for a weekend trip. I think he thought it was with a guy??? 

mls: The problem is he does want to lose the woman he's been with for 24 years. He's already filed that means he willing to walk away.
It's so difficult.


My problem is I keep thinking this friendship will turn into something more.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Maybe the friendship will Corpus...but again you can't let yourself think that for to long. You have to live your live right now as if its not going to happen. And I understand that you say that its not the right time in regards to what your son is going though...but maybe look at it this way. If you go on a date or two or three, nothing serious, just meeting someone, conversating, it might actually relax you, recharge you, and be able to get a better hold on the situation with both your son and your H. Everyone needs a break, and not only physically but mentally as well. And that includes you. Just give it a shot CW


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

OK. Where do you find dates??? haha

I haven't dated since high school.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Ash this is excellent advice - dating as recreational downtime - never thought of it like that - CW we should go for it?
But HOw?
gang - any suggestions?


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Try making a profile on Plenty Of Fish.. It's free.. Nobody says you have to contact anybody.. Also FB I hear is a big time hook up spot. My wife is nervous I might use it cause she says women are crazy on there..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

hmmm I guess that means crazy men as well?


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

We men are ALL crazy, aren't we?


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

I don't know about you guys but the thought of dating and trying to find Mr. Right sounds exhausting!!

Yes, I would like to eventually date and find someone who loves me. However, I worked my tail off in my relationship and then marriage with my H. I thought I had found the person I would spend the rest of my life with. 

I do miss the attention and companionship though. It would be nice to have someone to talk to, share, tell me I'm beautiful and generally enjoys my company. 

I'll confess that a few nights ago I went onto match.com to see what all the fuss is about. Holy cow that was scary! Guess I'm not ready to make that leap.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

mls its not about finding mister right any more its about finding mister hes ok..  I know a guy at work who posted his profile and listed what he did in a relationship like 50% of the work with cooking and cleaning and so on. That he has a list of qualities that he is looking for and if tey had 50% of them he would want to meet them. I tihnk thats pretty good way at looking at it. Nobody will be mister right but if you had a mister ok you could be happy too..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Dating (thoughts) makes me wanna get sick! I know I can't do it now. 

With my H and I going through a rough patch with our son we are both kinda depressed. My D is coming into town from a tennis match late on Halloween. I have a party to attend. I asked him to pick her up. He said he has no plans and will stay at condo. He was glad I was going out.

I don't feel like going out right now. I feel like inviting him over for Halloween and we can take care of the trick or treaters and watch scary movies and eat. What do you think of me inviting? Stupid-desperate?


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

i think i would want to do the same thing.... but as to it being a good idea or not... i have no idea, but it sounds like it could be fun 

i hope things get better with your son.


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

IMO, invite him over if you want to. He can decide if he wants to accept or not.

Having said that, are you inviting him for desperate reasons?


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

You two could stay in limbo land forever you know... never having a real relationship, never establishing anything, just staying in the comfort zone. It may be OK for now, but it will wear on you eventually, CW.

When I found Mr. Pretty Freaking Good I wasn't sure I wanted him, to be honest. It took a lot of convincing. Now I think he's Mr. Right. I just wanted sex. ;-)


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I agree with dobo. Could land you in limbo land. I don't think it is desperate on your part, but makes it easy on him. He should be the one asking.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You are right guys...it won't hurt but why? He should be the one asking. The fact is he is overwhelmed with our son and can't even fathom relationship stuff in the mix. The facts are he's never said he wanted me and he's filed for the divorce. We are just close still...

I'm not desperate but I seek the connection. Maybe it's hope that he'll see me as comforting. Or...maybe we are going through our son's crisis together. Whatever the reason..it's not desperate. If he says "no" than I will go to my party as planned. 

I expect him to say "no."


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

My first "serious" relationship... I was (and amazingly, still am) 21 years younger than him. His kids were just a few years younger than me in age. Time came for him to move back home (he'd been in NJ and was given the opportunity to transfer back to... TX!). He elected for me not to follow. Lots of reasons, all his. I'm heart-broken. Blah, blah, blah. I won't let go. I visit. Stays the same. Only when someone else pops up in my life does he ask me to marry him. Threat did it.

Of course, that wasn't enough for me. So I ditched him and married the other guy. I never stopped loving him.

A divorce later he was back on my trail. Yeah, if only.

Your husband had better realize there is an expiration date on things. Neither of you know what it is. But it exists.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks for the DOBO. I truly believe that you are right. 

What he tells me is he's no longer "in love." OK got it.

He files for divorce. OK got it.

He probably will divorce me. Wouldn't that be his expiration date? I mean...I propose that we may be divorced in a month.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Ugh. I've never dated. I've either been single or in a relationship. I just have no desire to do it.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Wren: I dated my H in high school. We broke up a few times and I was invited on dates...I was always connected to my H. The other guys were nice but my heart wasn't in it. 

I am 44 years old. How do I walk away?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

The expiration date is what we are looking for now CW - we are both exhausted - for both of us it has been around a year + whatever crap we went through before that when they weren't saying anything (in my case I reckon add another 18 months) - 

let's look at the research - my counsellor tells me the average time to get over a situation like ours (where we didn't want it) is around 2 years - 

so as I see it I stil have time to go

honestly some days I think doing stuff like divorcing him, selling house will help me draw line between a past which involved him as the 'love' of my life and a future which is free of him in this role...

not sure that is how I want to do it....but it could be in my best interests - I haven't decided on that yet

a friend of mine said to me one day you just realise that they can't hurt you anymore 

we will move on CW - it will happen


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

This is the longest breakup ever! I hear 2 years after the divorce as well. 

I'm where you are K...wanting to push the divorce and draw the line. He will probably beat me to it but is overwhelmed with our son. I can't do it now anyway. Gotta wait.

Many..many people say...once you get another boyfriend or date or forget about them..they often want back in. Dobo mentioned this. FA has said this in regards to girls in his past. I believe there is something to it.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yep and in our case they are simple emotional souls and it may well work like that! But my counsellor has said that he will always be jealous and uncomfortable if I move on - won't necessairily change anything -


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> Wren: I dated my H in high school. We broke up a few times and I was invited on dates...I was always connected to my H. The other guys were nice but my heart wasn't in it.
> 
> I am 44 years old. How do I walk away?


I've known my H since middle school. We dated some in high school. He was my first everything once we officially started dating in college. Heck, he had a crush on me since 7th grade.

How do you walk away from feelings stemming back from middle school???!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I had a eureka moment in Walmart! Alright, it was spurred by anger after a call from my H. We are going to the same place tomorrow and he is wanting to go separate. This is me thinking we might go together. We ended up disconnected (drop call). I didn't call him back. 

I was angry...at that moment and now. I am done. I want to tell him that I am finished. I am wanting to move on with my life. I even wanted to tell him I was seeing someone (fake date). 

The dropped call save me or him (however you look at it). I am scared. Why? Of losing a potential turnaround....I've waited a year. I've done everything...I am waiting and losing my patience. 

Tonight I was angry and thinking? He's done nothing to help himself. He hasn't made a move into the marriage again. He's filed for divorce mid Sept. He's written the assets down and we need to me and will probably do so soon. He isn't the man that I knew. He's wallowing. He's running. He's full of anxiety. He's depressed. He's wants to be my friend. He selfish. I am so frustrated. I am about to make the leap here and push for this....

I am fooling myself that this man cares about whether I am calling it quits. He is the one that separated and filed. I am stupid looking like a sitting duck at this point.

Get on with it.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

When tensions are high people do stupid things. Your seeing the worst in him right now but if he was lovng and attentive you would see a different side. I say this cause my wife a little more then 2 months ago called the cops and hated me. She couldn't stand me now she can't live without me.. Love is deep. Can be covered by current emotions but the guy you loved is there hiding behind it all..


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

I feel you CW. A friend said to me tonight, " Why would you need to convince someone to be with you or share a life with you? If he needs convincing, whether it's because of his issues or whatever, he doesn't want you. Why continue to diminish yourself?"


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

^^^ Totally agree!!!!


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

I understand confusion. I understand depression. I understand fear. But those are really just excuses for not choosing to risk. You can be scared, confused, and depressed while sharing a life with another person. Life is full of personal crises and if a person waits for an epiphany or a day where everything is perfect, you will wait forever.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

am getting to a point where I agree Wren - they are excuses - not reasons...the reason is that they want something else, something other, someone other - that's the reason -
the other stuff is just dramatic stuff - 
heck I have had some pretty rough feelinsg since thsi started last year, have had suicidal thoughts and am being treated for depression doesb't change my attitude on relationship -


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Same here K. Through all the suffering, I was willing to risk getting hurt and losing the relationship all over again.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH: Your words are powerful as I know you've lived through this experience to have seen "daylight" again. It means alot to me to hear from someone who has sacrificed for their loved one and it's turning out for the better. It's possible.

That is the thing with emotionally charged decisions...they can change in a moment. We are humans and one minute love and the next minute have hate or anger, etc. The same goes with our relationships including your wife LH. 2 months ago she was out...now she is IN! You could have left...many would have.

So he loves me (I do know that) and is covered by emotions? It makes sense. Now, I am back where I started? 

Wren and K: I guess the only difference between them and us is we aren't abandoning our relationship because of our feelings.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

You are exactly right, CW. Because we want them and the relationship, we are willing to risk. I think it's a hard to pill to swallow; they are willing to only risk losing us in hopes of being happy. What does that really say?


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Wren they love via circumstances. In other words they love when you give them love or something like gifts or do work for them. So when you don't give it what happens? They change their feelings and say you don't love them. It's not easy for a man to love unconditionally. It means they have to look foolish cause they put her needs above his own. That menas doing things that might not be manly all the time.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH and other men: Does it make a man feel weaker/inferior when he loves unconditionally?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I don't feel inferior for loving my son unconditionally. I don't know regarding my w or other woman, for as a NG have I loved them unconditionally? I don't know.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I guess I should have clarified....in your h/w relationships. When you love unconditionally..no matter what. When you put them on a pedastal. When are you willing to bend over backwards to help. 

Does this put you in an inferior position?


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Yes as men we don't want to look WHIPPED!! That's what guys talk about. So when you love unconditionally you don't always look manly. This will appear as being whipped cause what ever she wants you try to give. If you keep the mindset you want to make them happy above your needs it doesn't matter what it looks like. I now take the stance I only have to answer to one person. That's my wife. If I look foolish oh well at least she appreciates me and I enjoy seeing her responses.. I see my 15 years of marriage as a badge of honor. People don't make it that far. I also promissed her 15 years better.. I would love to see 50 years..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

But LH if you overlook your needs you become an NG. That is the definition, that you just give and give and lose yourself. So there is a balance in there. That is what I was doing with my w. And that didn't work out well.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Giving yourself to your partner doesn't mean losing identity. It means putting their needs above your own. That doesn't mean you can't on a Friday night go out with the guys or in my case go out to Monday night football.. I guess sometimes its taken to extremes..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I guess the NG put the spouses needs firsts but ignores their own needs. This causes the anger and resentment to build.

LH is saying that he puts his wife needs first but still recognizes his needs. Is this correct?


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Yes.. I still look at what makes me happy just focus on givng myself to her and what she needs first. She isn't an infant and needs 24 hour attention. I still try to do something I enjoy but time makes that hard with 2 little kids as they have needs too.. This is why marriages fall apart more when kids involved. it's a bigger battle with time..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I tell you what...my eureka moment at Walmart hasn't gone away. 

I am still thinking about pushing my H. The urge is strong and I am resisting for the moment. I am not a very impulsive person but something is spurring me on. 

I don't want a divorce...but I'm not sure I can live with my life upside down for 3-6-9-12 months.

LH your comments keep me grounded. How your wife 2 months ago wanted out and now can't get enough of you. In my heart, my H is the same way...doesn't or isn't recognizing any of his part. Doesn't verbalize much. 

There are no guarantees with my H is going to change his mind. I just have to hold out until he crosses me off his list. It should be soon but I may end up pushing it one day..when I'm fed up in his presence. I wish I would just let it be...and go on (emotionally).


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Can I just chime in on the putting the needs first discussion?
I believe in unconditional love - certainly for your kids but also in my case for my partner (when he was my partner that is)....
I ma having to think whether there is any logic to having unconditional love for someone who isn't in a relationship with me - 
aint making a whole lot of sense any more...I can choose to stop having this kind of love for him and I think I will...

I don't think it has much to do with situations when we put our partners on pedastals - I did with my h and he did with me - this was out of balance but we could have balanced it with open communication - that's what we didn't have -


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

You're right K. Because he was emotionally dishonest with you and made covert contracts I suppose.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I checked the status of the email I sent my H. He checked it about 4 hours ago and didn't respond. Remember the email that invited him over for Halloween. Why doesn't he respond? Yes, No, No thanks...something? He's done this on more than one occasion? I find it rude. He isn't a rude person...not sure how to take it?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Hey CW I am waiting on a response from an email I sent to my h 5 days ago that he told me has printed up and read -
but still no repsonse NOTHING - it is rude , it is avoidance it is being cowardly..they are weak - 
my H has does this continually through the separation - when things are too hard - don't do them -


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

No response= fear of emotional responsiblity, imho.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

CW-- You can't change anybody but you can try and help them see the eureka moment. This is how I go about my W.. I can't make her change but I am hoping I say things the right way for her to understand she will have that lightbulb go off so she wants to see what I am talking about..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

He ended up calling regarding D. Asked if I was still going to party. He said he just checked his e-mail not too long ago (I knew it was over 4 hours) and wasn't sure as I asked him over. 

I told him when he didn't respond..I made other plans to go to the party afterall. I just told him that I thought he wouldn't respond.

He said he'd pickup our D from tennis tourney and deliver to the house (as I had asked). He told me to not worry about her and to have fun and drive safe. He also said...stay out as late as you want and have fun!

I felt as if my parent was telling me these things! He texted me, at the party, that he dropped off my D and she was safe. 

I guess his take is that we are friends.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Goodness knows how they see us - it is such clumsy stuff isn't it?
Acting how they think they should act...no heart there...still not present...


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

No, not just a friend but your D's mother. And the person he spent a great many good years with. I still believe that CW.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I just noticed your tagline changed. Kinda funny but not...(know what I mean).

Halloween party was fun...bunch of youngsters there late 20's. There were some cute costumes. Octomom seems to be a popular one this year.

Going to the symphony this afternoon with sister in law. My D doesn't want to go and I feel guilty leaving her as she's been gone all weekend. She just wants to chill. I told my H that he could come over and visit since I will be gone.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Today, he left a message on my cell regarding our D and visiting while I was out. Said.."I love you" again.

I keep trying to apply logic to something illogical...it's not working.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Not sure why he keeps saying I love you. For him to go out of his way to say it he wants you to know that. Lie see Im trying. I don't know much about NG's but is this his suttle way of trying to starting working it out?? Could he be that afraid to come out and say it??


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I have no earthly idea at this point. I have been receiving these kind of messages over and over again. Not daily but maybe weekly. Like the cooking dinner at our H with our D and then inviting sister and brother in law over. Before they came...asked for a hug and I love you. 

We both know that we love each other. Maybe it's the I love you but no longer attracted to or in love with you thing??? 

The good news about today was that he was at the surf shop getting new fins for the board. He hasn't surfed in over a year (a huge deal). This was an indication to me that he was in pain and couldn't deal with being "one with God" like he feels when he surfs. 

He's been consumed with road biking and work....busy, competitive, stressful things. He recognized that he was doing this...even avoiding surfing. 

Today, he was preparing to surf. That is a big deal. I know his heart is softening and not as hard. I can tell by his words and attitude and the fact that he's considering getting back in the water.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Well if he is going out of his way to say I love you then he is feeling something. If he just responds after you say it then I would say he's just responding but what he's doing means feelings..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Well...it almost as if it comes out. I am never sure if he meant to say it or not. I don't tell him that I love him. I keep the conversation neutral. I shouldn't say that I don't tell him...it's more like "I love you C and want the best for you" type thing. 

We don't say our "love yous" in response to each other.

I totally know he loves me. I don't doubt.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Love you like a brother/sister or love you like a wife/husband??


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, yes I changed the tag line a little while ago. Since that is how I feel right now.

I agree with LH that if it was in response to a I love you from you then just saying it. But to say it without prompt means something.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's saying without prompting at all times. 

This whole time of separation...I have not come off as needy or dependent. It's like I am active and busy and happy. Even though I may not be that happy. 

He let's it all hang out...if he's angry, happy, frustrated, stressed...I know it. This is how he is regarding his feelings-they are overwhelming him.

I'm not giving into them-in front of my H. 

Last night I had dreams (rare). I had one about my H having had an affair. That was why our marriage was broken...he felt guilty and couldn't deal. Hmmmm. As I've said.... I don't see it in real life.

My attitude is changing. I keep stopping myself from calling him and saying "lets get it done."


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> LH and other men: Does it make a man feel weaker/inferior when he loves unconditionally?


NO! what makes most men feel foolish is when we are standing at the check out with a box of pads or tampons, becausse she asked..(i do this often) or when we are caught by our "buds" doing the "house wife" duties (again, i am no stanger to that iether)... or most importantly, when all our friends and family are telling us how poorly we are treated and why don't you take charge and "be a man", and we can't, not yet, not now.... (been there too) 

at least that's my thoughts....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Hoping,

Strange as it was for me it never bothered me to buy those things for my wife. Didn't care what anyone thought because they all buy them too. I've never looked at things like woman's work -- I was a bachelor for a long time before my w and I had to do it for myself so what is the difference. Just can't care about what others think. That is what the "man" is - just don't care about what others think about you. I'm learning that is the way to be with regards to all people, to just be yourself no matter what.


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

first, lol, i was writiing that from the way i see other men i know acting about those thing (purely observations) i actually enjoy cooking and baking, an all my friends and family are begging for my recipes (my pumpkin bread is "OMG!!! What did you do?!?!)  any ways sorry if i cam eoff as shovenistic, i realy am not that way and as far as buying those things... they are just groceries, nothing more, a part of life. 



Corpuswife said:


> Today, he left a message on my cell regarding our D and visiting while I was out. Said.."I love you" again.
> 
> I keep trying to apply logic to something illogical...it's not working.


i would nurture the "i love you"s and at the same time be wary. it sounds to me, the more i read of your post, that your H is just confused and scared. it sounds like he wnats to fix it but is just to dmaned proud to admit to his weaknesses (a fatal error) but it sounds like the surfing could be a positive step for him. maybe, he is starting to turn a corner.

i don't know if you will like what he decides (i am not a psychic) but i can tell you this, i hope for his sake that you are not at the end of your rope, it sounds like he is having a VERY slow recovery and may loose any chance he has if he doesn't fix it soon.


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

Feelingalone said:


> Hoping,
> 
> That is what the "man" is - just don't care about what others think about you. I'm learning that is the way to be with regards to all people, to just be yourself no matter what.


strange, but i am learning the same thing too... surprising, but it feels like it's one of those things you knew deep down but never listened to.... thank you


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

hoping: Thanks for the responses. 

I think he's making a slow recovery and of course there are no guarantees with our relationship. I am at the end of my rope after a year. I want to restore my marriage. I have this darn divorce that was filed for in mid Sept. 

It's slowed down as we are to divide assets on our own. MY son's crisis has slowed our divorce speak down. 

I keep thinking I am fooling myself that he's turning around toward seeing our relationship in a positive light. He may get better but that doesn't mean he'll want his marriage to return. 

I can be patient but this is killing me. 

Guys...my H is the kind of guy that cooks, cleans, and buy my feminine purchases. He doesn't care either. He also like to take baths with bath salts. (He would kill me if he heard me tell anyone) haha


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> He also like to take baths with bath salts. (He would kill me if he heard me tell anyone) haha


As long as he's watching football on the TV while he's soaking, I *guess* that's okay.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Of course he is D8zd!!


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

ok, i am y be giving my self up for a hole world of jokes, but, i love a good long soak in the bath (salts, suds, candle) it is a good way to relax after a hard day....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Hoping,

I agree. Instead of trying to be the man. Just be yourself and let the chips fall where they may with others and their perceptions or feelings. I'm not saying I'm going to be a jerk to others, but worry about me first (exception my son) otherwise you lose your self.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

hoping said:


> NO! what makes most men feel foolish is when we are standing at the check out with a box of pads or tampons, becausse she asked..(i do this often) or when we are caught by our "buds" doing the "house wife" duties (again, i am no stanger to that iether)... or most importantly, when all our friends and family are telling us how poorly we are treated and why don't you take charge and "be a man", and we can't, not yet, not now.... (been there too)
> 
> at least that's my thoughts....


Ok I must be really wierd then. I do the food shopping fo rhte family and have for 15 years.. I buy her the femine products. She just tells me what she needs. I buy the brands. I know her little needs from each product. That is true love. :rofl: I guess since I also scrub toilets/mop floors/cut lawn/fix/cook/dishes/mister mom I must be really special.


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

is it wrong to be wierd LH? i never had a problem with it lol and yes, from what i've read, your wife is a very lucky woman, and it sounds like she is starting to see it clearly


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I don't know. I am so confident as a "man" I don't worry about what things look like. I only have to answer to 3 people currently. After that I don't worry... My W has always know she was lucky but she was/is afraid to let me see it. Fear of getting hurt. Now I am helping her to let go so she can be hurt. Not that I would but it frees her from the responibility of keeping that wall up..


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

yeah, i have been working on that wall as well.... i think that it would shatter a sledge hammer sooner then fall, but it is amaising how the lightest touch (if placed properly) can shatter a chunk


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

hoping: I think there is a secret society of men bathers (complete with candles, bath salts, etc)! Glad to hear you are one of them.


Having confidence is always attractive! Doesn't matter what you do but how you do it!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

My H called this afternoon. He has texted a message to me that didn't require a response. So I didn't (kind of like his no response e-mails). 

His comment on the phone call..."I thought you'd like to know and I don't want to bug you. I try to give you space."

I'm not sure what that means?


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

hmmm Maybe just maybe he is reading up?? Have you talked to him about being stressed?? Maybe he just realizes it? Either way it does go with his other actions. Sounds like he's not runnning any more..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Why is he trying to give me space when it's his idea to leave? 

I am the one giving HIM space? haha

This is one confusing relationship.

LH: I talked to him about EVERYTHING; stress; midlife; depression; relaxation; yoga; surfing; Nice Guy; counseling; postive thinking; etc. I can't talk anymore or I'll be a broken record and it's highly frustrating for me. Either he wants to help himself or not.

I guess he isn't running anymore. When I ask him if he can do something like pick up our D-he says "sure just let me know..I'll be by myself at the condo all day." I guess that's a signal (pitiful me or see I'm not having an affair).


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

try dropping hints to get him to ask you on a date.... if it is a sign for the better, and he has a brain, maybe, he will catch them and start to rebuild the bridge he's close to burning?


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Hoping is right. SWee if you can try and drop hints.. This will prove if he's trying or not..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

How can you hint to be asked for a date?

I just think either your in or your out. I told him before I left "you know what I want and how I feel...it's up to you to make a move back into the marriage." That was pretty clear. He needs to move toward me.

I'm not even sure if these are moves...probably just left over feelings from the marriage and not knowing how to act.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Before when?? A month ago?? maybe he is afraid to ask.. You might find the right situation and ask him to meet you for drinks after work or something.. I don't know but he seems to be moving towards you slowly..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I agree with LH that it appears he is moving toward you slowly. I know you want a clear sign from him, but you know you won't get it right away. Who knows you could say you are having a movie night with D and see if he wants to come (don't mean you ask him just let him know). Or maybe you and a friend are meeting for drinks or something and let him know where and when and see what happens.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I just got off phone with him. I had to call as I just received job offer that will interfere with dropping my D off at school. He needed to know of course. 

He was more excited than me...ask if I had benefits. I'm sure it will make him feel better that I'll be taken care of...

I am so utterly sad. I blurted out "when is this divorce going to happen?" He said "well...soon I guess with C and his stuff going on we've been busy." I said "well...I never have wanted this divorce but living like this is killing me." He said " I have it all written down we just need to get together."

Then....I (stupidly) asked "what did I do that was so hurtful to the marriage." He said he didn't want to talk about it now. He said he was the one to walk away and I didn't do anything. I said "bull****...people don't walk away from their wife for no reason." He told me we'll talk about it later (avoidance) and said I need to be happy now for my new job! F...the new job! I could give one damn care about it. 

It hurts like hell to have ZERO reasons and ZERO discussion about your 24 year marriage dissolving. Oh...I have MY ideas. I've been freaking analyzing him and my marriage for one year. The fact is he doesn't even know as far as I am concerned....it's a sorry excuse to walk away if you don't know why you are doing so in the first place. DUH!

I felt like a loser...asking one more time.."WHY?"


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

first, you are NOT a loser!!!!

i wish there was some thing i could say that would amke you feel better. that's awful.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thank you hoping. I"ve been on the phone with my good friend H and good friend K. They are both telling me to perserve myself. My focus has been on my H. I've done everything possible to restore my marriage.

He is not thinking clearly because of his issues...depression, mid life, NG, whatever. 

My friend said to try to NOT analyze and make sense of my H and his body language and behaviors toward me. My friend K said it's "like asking the blind to see color." He's in incapable of understanding (for now) himself. If he wanted in the marriage he would say it clearly. 

Part of my struggle has been my Chistian belief to try everything possible to save my marriage. It's not normally a problem except it's been entirely one sided. My friend K is a strong Christian woman. I told her of my struggles. She says..."if he's already divorce you in his heart than there is nothing that you can do. The paperwork is all that's left." It rung true.

I will see my H tonight at tennis match. I will schedule a time to meet and divide up assets (this week). I'm no longer waiting. I am taking action now. He will then take to attorney and have it written up to be approved by my attorney. Done.

I'm done.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, Hoping is right you are not some loser. You are a strong person who has done everything you can to this point except let go and let him be miserable with what he has done.

I know you are frustrated. Just keep on your path and try to enjoy the fact that you do have a new job.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

So sad that I am so focused on my marriage that I don't have the heart to celebrate or be happy.

This is where I draw the line... no more H.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

I'm sorry CW. I feel your pain. It doesn't make sense to us why/how our H's can just walk away without real explanations. They are in a selfish place and it doesn't matter how good we are at giving space, being non-confrontational, showing love. They simply do not want to invest in the marriage right now. Like I said before, "why should we convince anyone to be with us?"

We must detach and accept our marriages are dead. Now, I'm not ruling out a new relationship for you and your H, in the future. But for now, we must move on because it's become too painful to hold on.


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

CW, 

Have you considered telling H not to continue saying "I love you"? Seems kind of selfish on his part, especially with him unable or unwilling to discuss the reasons for the split. Plus, I think it further complicates feelings, emotions, etc.


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

I'm with D8zed. does he know that you need him to **** or get of the pot, so to say? he shouldn't be putting you through this emotional roller coaster. obviously he should realize he is doing it but i'm wondering if he is "together" enough to realize it?

i do hope you find your peace. you have had it realy rough and your commitment and strength has been an inspiration to me (and i'm sure others as well)


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

My peace is in my hands...today has been rough as I've come to my conclusions with the help of this board and my dear friends.

I am taking a hard stance. No more hoping for him to come around. I am pushing this divorce ASAP. 

I don't care if he knows what he's doing. Not my problem. I'd help the guy with his life if he wanted to keep me as his wife. He doesn't and now he can have his problems and his life. I am the most loyal, honest, caring person that you could meet and I would help a person in need but they have to do their part. They can't blame me either. He says he blames himself...then why in the hell is he running from me?


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

CW,

Bravo! I think this is the best approach for you. By taking this stance, you're not risking anything. You two can still reunite if that's the intended path. 

Best of luck.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Man cw I'm sorry he was just stringing you along. You are a very strong women who would do anythinn to save your marriage. I commend you for that. Stay strong and celebrate job. Go out and have some fun you deserve it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Corpus!! It has been awhile since I have been on so I have been reading over some of your posts. You are not even close to being a loser! Please don't say that. You have handled the situation with so much class. Don't even say that! I think you are doing the right thing (to repeat everyone else) just move forward with it. Look at it this way. This is a new beginning and the new beginning might be with your H, you never know, but regardless it is a new beginning. Congrats on the job


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> Then....I (stupidly) asked "what did I do that was so hurtful to the marriage." He said he didn't want to talk about it now. He said he was the one to walk away and I didn't do anything. I said "bull****...people don't walk away from their wife for no reason." He told me we'll talk about it later (avoidance) and said I need to be happy now for my new job! F...the new job! I could give one damn care about it.
> 
> I felt like a loser...asking one more time.."WHY?"


You are not a loser, CW! Don't let your H make you think otherwise. I know you have a lot of people who think highly of you and would not do the same thing given your situation (being so patient and caring to your H). 

You don't understand how many times I've wanted to ask my H the same question: "what did I do that made our marriage so horrible?" But at this point, his mind is made up and asking about what went wrong will do nothing. 

I am sorry your situation has turned. However, you can't keep living your life hoping your H will change and see the light. That's not fair to you.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thank you all for your kindness and support.

I am in self preservation mode as many said "it's time." I now recognize that I am hurting myself at this point.

I can't look at my H for answers...he has none.

I also quit with reading into body language, words, and "I love you's." 

My H is an assertive man and smart. If he wants back in this marriage he would let me know. He would not hint around or wish for things to change. He would tell me. 

I texted to meet. He said at the coffee shop ok? I said fine. No day or time.

I emailed a choice of Wed night, Thurs or Friday. "Let finish this" as my last sentence. 

I can be intense and take charge person. He's divorced me in his heart...it's all paperwork at this point.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I had my counselor visit today. 

She could tell I was done....it's not that I want this but I have to do this for me.

She also was surprised about his behavior.... hugs and "I love you" and dinner made...she said it was cruel on his part. To play this game with me (even unintentionaly) as I kept thinking he would turn around.

I keep telling myself (over and over)...if he wanted me than I would know. I would not need body language or hugs...it would be clear.

He doesn't know what he wants...that's clear. 

I know I wasn't a "loser" yesterday. I felt like one that had lost her dignity...begging (again). I had promised myself I would do it......4 months later I did and hated myself for it. It had done me in and I knew this was my line. 

Thanks for showing me support. Yesterday was a low day.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Keep you chin up CW. You've got a new job to think about and to keep you busy soon. Kind of sucks though to start before the holidays. 

Everyone has low days. I had one yesterday as well for some reason. Still have that little bit of hope I guess. That is what does us in I think. But as you said, my w has emotionally checked out a while ago, so move on and forward for me.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's amazing, after all we've been through, that hope resides. I still have faith that my marriage will be restored. 

However, I need to distance myself from unhealthy behavior. After 1 years, I've done it all and given it time. I'm not better off than I was a year ago...stronger perhaps. 

No person in our family (his or mine) understands his reason or behavior. Our friends and family aren't sure as well what to think. Even the majority of posters on this board are confused. Why should I be any different? He's confused himself. I pray for him many times a day. That is all that's left for me to do.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Well your at the end of your emotional line. Keep moving forward CW.. It will get better..


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

I have not signed on for awhile now and had alot of catching up to do. CW you are amazing. I thought you were some unrealistic wonderwoman. Now I see that you are human, female, honest, caring, feeling and simply just wonderful with your emotions. I am also feeling that I am at a point where I need to just move on. Except I don't know where to move onto. I am just numb at this point. I have been strung along as well and at the end of day he still leaves and I am still alone. My H left for his trip and I didn't have the guts to tell him to make a decision. Instead I told him I had to sort things out and make some decision while he is gone. Yes that was advice from someone on the outside looking in. Can't say it will work. I am scared to death that maybe he will feel like whew thank god she is making the decisions so I don't look like the bad guy. I agree this is all very confusing and I just don't understand why these spouses seem to think that it is easier to walk away then work on it. My dearest friend is dying and showing me how important every moment is. And you know what??? All this crap is taking away some of the most important things from us!! No matter how much we hurt or how much we don't want to deal anymore, life is still moving forward and we are not living it to our fullest potential because of these people. It is them that walked away and didn't care about what they would miss out on with the family. But instead it seems that we are the ones missing out because we are so miserable. Well screw them, let them miss out and let us move forward and enjoy every drop of rain, every ray of sunshine, every full moon, every morning we wake up to our children, every night that we get to tuck them into bed, everyday that we have the ability to get out of bed and take care of ourselves and go to work and have freedom to laugh, love and speak. 
(now if I could just reread that to myself everyday, maybe I could follow this too.  
God bless you all. We are all struggling, but we are all wonderful human beings that have alot to share with others.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Sending virtual hugs to you, CW!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Believe: You will know that you are at your endpoint. It may seem rash at first but it's been brewing for some time. 

I keep thinking if our spouses wanted in the relationship...it would be clear. Some are on the fence waiting. They may be waiting because they are indecisive or they are scared or cowardly...

It's no longer my problem after a year.

Life doesn't stand still. Like you said Believe we are entangled in their web. You friend is living on borrowed time and you are trying to read and guage his every move. 

You will know when it's time and your sick of it. When it's no longer healthy. 

I adore my sweet husband. He's a good, kind, intelligent man. He's screwed up. He wants out. Game over. 

I know I am a worthwhile person and I've never doubted that for a second. I have all of the fears that a divorced woman has...dating, being alone, raising kids, financial, etc. 

I'm so glad that I tried as hard as I did...that I didn't walk away when things were tough. That I lived during this time with as much dignity and class that I could muster. My kids, family, and friends, have seen this. It's my constellation prize.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I can sense your strength in your words. You are an amazing person. I am finally coming out of my funk of the last year or so myself. Too bad the w couldn't stand by like you would. For that you should pat yourself on the back.

I have the same fears as you about being divorced. But it is life and no one can do anything about it but me and you. We will survive. We can handle anything that comes our way.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: You are right...we are strong because we can face our fears. That builds strength and character. My children know who to come to when they need help or advice. 

I would love to stand by my husband but he's not allowing me. He still hasn't recognized that his feeling are normal for a depressed person. 

Last night, at dinner, when I was leaving the parking lot..I thought "there were times when my H annoyed me. Times when I disliked him badly. Times that I would have liked to walk away." This must be like it was for my H...his feelings toward me. He just couldn't get pass it.

Oh well. We can handle it FA.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

We can and will handle it.


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

Corpus you are a strong lady, a very well rounded role model for your children as well as those on this board. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I know what you're going through as do others here, sad =( I too just had to let go, as my ex didn't see the light either, won't admit depression (amongst other things) as well. So I had no choice but to go along w/what he thought would solve his problems. You also know as I've said before that he can't stay away, yet won't seem to come back either. So now yes I still love him dearly, yet I'm at a point of still having to try and let go =( I'll always love him, I'm pretty sure he loves me to although he'll never admit it. I still get the love but not "in" love speech. I'm at the point now that I have placed it in God's hands, if we're meant to be it will come back together someday (although I'd love for that to be now but hey I'm not God). If we're not then God will take care of that too. I miss the hell out of him and my days are still very hard. But I wanted to come here and let you know that I admire you and as you already know of course you're so not alone...I wish we had the answers. I wish we could get inside their heads. But they choose to do as they wish thinking it will solve their issues. We'll see how that works out for them. So far the grass on the other side in my eyes is rather dead from what I see, but hey that's just me =) 

I'm thinking of you, stay strong, we all have our bad days too.

Rhea


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thank you Rhea! We all have so much in common.

My H texted me "Hi S.." Then another text.."when can I call you?" Strange for him...

He called and we set up our last meeting (I think) for tomorrow at 10:30 am. We will divide our assets and see how we can negotiate with real numbers. 

He seems so upbeat and light with the conversation. Wanted to chat about office politics and all. I just listened but kept thinking in my head..."he's too happy. Or...he isn't dealing with the same deck of cards as I am." Finally, I cut him off and said "I'll see you at 10:30."

Even with the text and phone call I still thought he'd changed his mind. I haven't changed much (hoping) other than I still want it over to preserve myself.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> I know I am a worthwhile person and I've never doubted that for a second. I have all of the fears that a divorced woman has...dating, being alone, raising kids, financial, etc.
> 
> I'm so glad that I tried as hard as I did...that I didn't walk away when things were tough. That I lived during this time with as much dignity and class that I could muster. My kids, family, and friends, have seen this. It's my constellation prize.


God bless you, CW! You have some amazing strength. 

I am pretty sure that if you dealt with this craziness for an entire year, that you'll be just fine as a divorced woman. The world is your oyster and you can conquer it!!!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's one scary, crazy oyster! 

Everyone here on my thread is so strong as well. We are overcoming a dying marriage. 

It funny...I knew divorce was difficult but until you go through your own. I don't know how folks can go through 2,3, or 4 even??? I think it might be easier to walk away from subsequent divorces as you may have a bit of a wall or maybe you are numb and have a been-there attitude. Just an observation.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

I agree. I don't think I can go through this more than once.

Earlier this summer I met a guy through my work who was going through divorce. He was telling me how horrible it was and how he was fighting to get custody of his two young sons. 

After talking to him, I thought about my own marriage and how we'd never get divorced. My H and I had been through a lot in our nearly 4 years of marriage. We'd survived moving, new jobs, financial issues, establishing careers, losing a loved one, and my H diagnosis of epilepsy. 

This guy just sent me an email today to ask how things were going. I filled him in on my divorce and asked him if we could get together for drinks and swap stories. I also told him I totally understand what he just went through.

Bonus: he's kinda good looking


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Mls: You have fun girl!! You never know what it feels like until you go through it...


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Amen..........


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I was thinking...I've been emotional today. I am trying to get it out...before my meeting with my H in an hour. 

I was trying to figure out the "whys" to my emotions.

I am scared: Why? I won't have a backup if I fail (mostly financial).

I am sad: Why? I love my husband as a husband and not a friend. It's the death of my marriage.

I am angry: Why? I wasn't given a chance to make it better. He never gave me a chance...He was already done a year ago. Plus, he wouldn't trust me enough to share whatever feelings that he was having.

I am surprised: Why? The man that was "after" me for 23 years decided to cut and run....seemingly overnight. Although, hindsight it wasn't. How did this happen? It's not real....still.

I am annoyed: Why? I still get these "messages" from my H that tells me he still "loves me" and wants to be a part of my life. How does he think this is going to work? Oh yes. He doesn't think.

You all should try this...it's kind of fun to divide up the why? Sometimes, the feelings get mixed in with each other during the day....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Good luck on your meeting. Be strong. It is a good exercise to go through things one at a time. I've actually constructed a list like that and it helps my thinking.


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

Amen! my wife never left the house but for a long time i had the same things in my head ( as i think a lot of us have) for about 6 months she gave all the indications that she was already gone, now she seems to be here? (still waiting for the bottom to fall out on that, again) i am sorry that you and your H couldn't get things back together and at least try like we have (not by your choosing i know)

you are an inspiration to me, in how you have tried so hard and done so well for your self. than kyou for that.

oh, and i devided them up with a counselor once.... OMG CONFUSING!!! and i (as i'm sure you too) could have used an entire page on each why! but it felt great to get it out.

good luck with your meeting, stay strong (i'm sure you will) and try not to let it get you too upset.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I had my meeting. He definitely wants "fair." We had a few tidbits of info. that we disagreed. Our situation is complicated regarding a bonus that was paid. If he quits/fired then he owes the prorated amount. I get that it's treated like a debt.

He wants me to say that I'll repay my half of the debt if he gets fired/quits. He's not the type....however who knows really.

I said "NO WAY." What if he gets flaky in 2 years and quits his job and got to Tahiti with his 20 year old girlfriend. I should not be responsible. I can't have that hanging over me legally. He said well "it's debt." I get it. 

Then I had (2) points:
1) If we were married I would be assuming the risk with no problem.
2) If he wants he can give me 100% of the "debt" or bonus money and I will assume 100% of the risk. He laughed at that one! So did I.

Then, he was surprised that I mentioned spousal support. His income is down this year. It will slowly come up to speed with the economy. His earning potential WAY exceeds mine. I was a SAHM for 15 years. We were truly blessed. However, I AM NOT the one leaving this relationship. He had originally agreed that he would pay. He was like...."I could lose my job." I said "so could I." 

His hands were shaking poor guy. I may be in the helping profession but I am also have keen business senses. I can separate my emotions from business. 

I was very proud of myself. I told him to come back to me with an offer of spousal support as I know he was shocked. I never mentioned a numer but he ask if he could pay me lump sum. 

I know this must bore you guys but I figure it may help others negotiating their divorce. You have to get the DEAL/arrangement on the way out. If you think you are being nice and open by giving in...hoping that he will return than you will be the loser. I thought about being "nice" but to tell you the truth I am....to a different person. ME! Don't get my wrong...I will compromise for the right reasons but will not give in because I hope he returns.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I'm proud of you Corpus and admire you very much, I'm sure your insides were all over the place but good for you for keeping your head...good for you for keeping emotions in check. Guarentee you he noticed that. And I like the last sentence you wrote 

" Don't get my wrong...I will compromise for the right reasons but will not give in because I hope he returns."

You can't compromise anymore hoping for a certain outcome...no outcome is set in stone yet but keep your mind sharp and think of all loose strings that you need to tie up.


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

Not boring at all. Very interesting and helpful in fact. Sounds like you did well. Good job.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Good job, CW! Stand firm, my friend!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks guys! I almost broke down once when I mentioned being a SAHM and being blessed. I thanked him then and I've always thanked him.

He always said.. "S...I was able to build my business because of you. We did this together. We did."


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Well..off to watch the tennis tournament for our D. My H, of course, will be there. He's called me twice this morning (camera, clothes, etc) for our D. 

Oh well..nothing like sitting next to your chit-chatty husband while you are going through a divorce.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yeah CW. That is why I'm glad I coach. Don't have to sit near or seem to avoid. Just on the field doing my thing. Makes it easier.

Swim season will suck because it is all watching. Oh well.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

I couldn't do it CW, without breaking down. But I know you'll do what it takes for your children. You are an inspiration!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I've really detached.....a good bit and that's why I cope well around him. I'm pretty comfortable at this point. I figure I am the "catch" now and he will have to walk away (as he is technically) or figure how to reconcile. 

None of this is my problem as of now. I feel like I have alot to offer and this is his problem. Today, we laughed a bit and has some humorous scenarios at the tennis tourney and beyond. I know he's attracted to me....but doesn't know how to behave. 

Catch me if you can! Or......NOT.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I can't tell you how ironic. I've detached...not totally but a great deal. Enough to feel ok with a divorce even though it's not what I want.

Now that I've emotionally detached with the big detachment this last week (straw that broke the camel's back)...there is a change in my H. It's strange. Nothing has changed on the outside of me but on the inside. I am still behaving (I think) the same.

He is starting to become more comfortable and contact me more often. Maybe it's this weekend thing and we are having more physical contact due to a tennis tournament. I don't know. 

Maybe I am giving off subtle clues that I am leaving emotionally and it's started to make him think (no feel) different.

Strange. I'll keep you posted.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well that isn't necessarily strange CW. But he she's you strong and going on with your life. He is standing still. He is starting to think about it.

My w isn't and won't. Your H never emotionally detached that is the difference. You know he still loves you. I don't think she loves me at all. That is a huge difference.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I don't get it FA...how she can no longer love you. How long do you think it's been since she's shown that she loved you or you felt that she loved you?

I ask this as I am surprised how quickly people fall in/out of love. Maybe I am different but I feel that it goes deeper than to toss it out so quickly. Either it's hidden or it was never there in the first place (the capacity).


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well if you remember after my talk with OM1 she smiled real big at me and I thought then that she still did. But she seems that is fake. Now I just don't know CW. 

She is cold and distant towards me, but then I probably come off that way as well. So with the OMs she doesn't. I am just lost on the answer. I don't want to think that she "never really loved" me at all, because I remember when I could see it in her eyes.

But when a narcissist decides to move on, I think they just move on.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA never let yourself believe she never really loved you. Your son is one 'proof' that she did - but you don't need proof - it is etched in your heart's memory and all love is precious - one day she'll realise this as well. I recall a lovely line from a book - 
"all children are love children but only the lucky ones are called that"....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yeah K, she loved me once, but not again. I've come to realize that is what it is. She can do what she wants, I'm done with her. I have no hope. Why should I, she hasn't shown anything. She can go to h#$%% as far as I'm concerned.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I know we say this and that...as often we've been told the same "they'll come around. They will regret. They still love us."

As far as I am concerned...I can't hope either no matter what messages I get from my H. I can't afford to hope. Hope for me entails much heartbreak. 

I'll hope when I get TOLD. Not ecause of clues like I am inspector Kluso (sp?)


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## nikon (Nov 9, 2009)

Corpuswife, the only logic in your situation is some sort of poly-crisis ... He obviously wants other women or freedom... or simply just a bit of change. He's obviously known you for such a long period of time he desires some change. Even our favourite shampoos can get boring. Is there anyone here that practises open marriage? People care about people, but we are polygamous beings in need of variety and change (i think).


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yep - hope brings us heartbreak - I am looking forward to seeing how I start my new life without wishing he was in it anymore -


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

nikon: I've already analyzed the man. Trying to apply logic to an illogical situation is leading to more heartbreak for me. I quit looking for answers in my H. He wants something else alright. 

He's going through a MLC complete with depression. I don't nor will I practice open marriage. It's difficult enough to make it work with one person...why add drama to the mix. That's my philosophy. Variety wasn't our problem. It works for some.

Gotta go...start my first day at work today!


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Good luck today CW! So proud of you!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Hope you enjoy your new job.... Sorry not around much. Wife needs more of my time right now to help her with her issues... She broke down over the weekend. The wall came a crumbling..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, glad to hear the wall is crumbling for you. Way to go. Keep up the good work.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Yeah she is surprising me on how she thinking about what she is doing. She is finally taking personal responsibility for her actions.. Calling herself a lazy piece of crap. Being sympathetic to my needs.. It's almost like a different women. We are not there yet cause she is still realizing what she s doing but this is steps I have never seen her take..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Wow, if only my w would see LH. If only. Congrats are the beginning though.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA this is why I have hope for your wife. My wife is 35 and I can honestly say she is starting to grow up now. She still has her moments with what she says like also brining up her father passing away 27 years ago today saying that it didn't help the past weekend. (excuse) Still the text messages were very promising. She even told me she was sorry for everything shes doing..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well LH, and apologies to CW for overtaking thread a little, I'm not sure. As you said if your w did what my w did, it would be over for you. With my w in lala land right now my eyes to her true nature keep opening wider. She is self centered. So unless some event or crisis comes into her path to make her look deep within herself, I just don't see it. Not for a few years. And then of course, I will be moved on permanently. When I decide that, which I"m already close to doing, there will be no going back for me. Ever.

I had a girlfriend who dropped me like a rock once - the longest relationship prior to my w - and once I was over it. It was never to be again. Years later she tried - I was done. I know this is different with a child involved and there won't be total physical separation but there will be emotional on part. That is how you must survive through this. But we'll see. I tell you I love your optimism though.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Hey CW hope your day at work went well!!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Hi guys...spent my first day in training. Will probably get to the "real" job on Wednesday. It's the place where I interned for 8 months...so it's familiar but I get paid!!

Oh yes. I get a phone call before work today from my H. He says "good luck on your job today. I am so proud of you." He also jokingly was going to wake me up at 5:30 am to make sure I got up.

I thanked him and got about my business. The only time I thought about him during work was when had to fill out emergency contact info., beneficiary info., etc. I wasn't sure if he should be in the blanks. It saddened me a bit. I just put him as I didn't want to think too hard to get upset for NOT putting him. I can always change later.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Hey CW - I am so glad that you are starting a new job - you'll be brilliant...and even better that you didn't think of him - 
I had the same thing with the emergency contact recently - it made me very sad and I left it blank....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, yes congrats on the first day. Prior to my w and a son, I used to put down my brother. He never knew I did that so it would have been a good bonus for him from life insurance etc. when I worked for companies. Now I'd put my son. As for emergency contacts - I'd still put down my w but only so my son would know if I was in an emergency.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Yeah I know what you mean about the contact info. It continues to remind you that you are still attached but need to start seperating.


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> Oh yes. I get a phone call before work today from my H. He says "good luck on your job today. I am so proud of you." He also jokingly was going to wake me up at 5:30 am to make sure I got up.


Wow....I don't guess I understand your and H's relationship but talk about something that seems weird! I think he uses you to satisfy some of his emotional needs/shortcomings. You might want to consider implementing a 'no contact' rule (unless it's related to the kids).


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> Oh yes. I get a phone call before work today from my H. He says "good luck on your job today. I am so proud of you." He also jokingly was going to wake me up at 5:30 am to make sure I got up.


Honestly, I'd get irritated with the intrusiveness. He's divorcing you, afterall.

I also put my ex- when I started my job post-divorce. Afterall, if something happened to me, there are the kids to deal with so he made the most sense. To me, it wasn't an emotional but practical issue.

Congrats on the job!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Today my H called and we had to discuss our son. I told him today, got a call from my attorney about a court date Dec. 2nd to make our divorce final. My attorney wants to meet.

I told my H about this and how he needed to get something to his attorney regarding our agreed upon stuff. He also need to make a decision about spousal support and the division of a bonus (it's complicated). He ended up getting defensive and wanting to talk later. F...latelr. I told him to quit running and talk now. Later doesn't work for me. 

I told him that he didn't like conflict but these things need to be hashed out as the attorneys would be happy to hash these things out for us. 

We had a disagreement and he was anger (as angry as he gets with me)....which isn't that bad. We hung up. I cried.

My D, with my H, calls and asks about my new job and was very cute. I was crying still. We hung up.

Later, my H invited me for a hamburger with them! WTF. 

I have nothing to say. I am flabbergasted. I know that I could stir up things and say "no contact." He mostly contacts for the kids plus....more. However, I don't want to stir hard feelings on his sides. I can remain friendly while we are negotiating terms. It is in my best interest.


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

I am sure when you told him about the court date it threw him off. Then he was probably thinking about it and wanted to see you. Did you go for a hamburger?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

The court date discussion was earlier...then I talked about terms of the divorce. It ended badly. He called later, maybe guilt because I was crying and my D knew it. Who really knows. I really don't care anymore what he thinks.

He cares and loves me deeply. I know this much. He thinks he can make "nice" with me and be my friend. How convenient. It's more my convenience, at this point, until the divorce. Then, it's my choice to give him the time of day.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, your forcefulness might be the straw that breaks his back and make him take that long look at himself. He definitely was taken aback by the date. You are in control of this now and he doesn't like it.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

If he's taken aback...he's playing it cool.

I am a firm negotiator. He's guilty and to tell you the truth that's his weakness. If he wanted to he could fight me in court and win. I know this...His buddies are telling him "he's crazy" according to my H. My H says "she's deserves this...we spend F...25 years together!" This was in our phone call.

He's is also embarrassed...another weakness. I know he doesn't want to expose his business to the public. He'd rather settle it nicely. Me too. 

Funny thing about the date-he didn't know and he's the one that filed. His attorney didn't let him know. On the phone call, I told him "I need to know if you are postponing soon. I also need to know what your decision is regarding our points of disagreement. Don't go to your attorney without settling on our disagreement. You shouldn't use your attorney for this as a buffer because you don't want conflict. Quit running." He agree he doesn't like conflict and said he would figure things out soon. 

I am so nice but direct. I can't afford to be much else for fear he won't "get it." I don't want mixed messages in this. 

NOPE. I didn't have a hamburger. 

I hate this...what a date to divorce Dec. 2.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CWfpr both of us I am looking forward to the day whenwe don't need to talk about these guys any more - it's always more of the same...my H is such a coward he won't even pick up the phone to tell me that he needs something for the boys - he will get the boys to text or call...I am so glad that you didn't go for hamburger - hope his tasted horrible without you ....


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

CW- Keep being strong.. Show him you want what you want and will not take less.. The only way to change his NG attitude is to throw him off his course. Make him uncomfortable. This will take the control off him and onto you. Then he will be forced to play at your game not his..  I think you will benfit in more then one way..


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

CW, I hate the your conversation ended badly and then he called to ask you to have a hamburger! WTF! I don't blame you for keeping up the friendly terms until the divorce. Afterwards, I would seriously question whether it's good for you. The fact is he's attempting to have one or more of HIS needs met by trying to be "friends", without actually commitment to you. Screw that! You deserve to have it all!


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I'm curious now. Are you really only playing nice until the divorce? Are you then going to tell him to ****** off except when it comes to the kids?

His biggest problem is that he still requires your approval, and so like a little boy who has just been scolded by his mother, he maks another attempt at contact, hoping for a better ending. But you're not his mother and you are soon not to be his wife. Doesn't he get that? 

Perhaps you haven't been clear enough with him on that particular fact. Does he believe that divorcing you is just about a piece of paper and that it doesn't change anything? I mean, what planet is he on right now? 

You are so much more patient than me. I would have made it so clear that once this thing is done, he's not going to wind up on my Friends list on Facebook, etc. 

You so totally need to date.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Well...no burger and I got over it-again!

dobo: I am not sure what I am doing but I do know I need to remain friendly as the divorce process is being settled. It only makes me wise. 

He called after work and ask how my day was...then got into the settlement on his own. I listened patiently. I make a comment here and there and say "you figure out what you want to give to me" and I'll let you know. This is regarding our point of conflict (main). He's starting to get that I understand his side but I don't care if it's fair to him. I don't say this but it's how I feel. 

He really doesn't HAVE to give into my wishes. I let him "set the price" and I negotiate from there. Sometimes, people hang themselves doing this. I know I must sound manipulative. I just feel that 50/50 is ok for most. Not for me. He left me without a clear reason and is unwilling to discuss it. I've been nothing but supportive for 25 years. He has been the same to me. I'm thankful to him. But...his earning capacity is nothing that I will be able to ever match. He will recover his losses. I won't.

Maybe he will be my friend. After the divorce, I am under no obligation. I may start to date and let him be my friend!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well CW, you are right most times in negotiation it is better to hear things first and let the other party hang themselves. My wife did that monday in our mediation session. Based on additional info from today (which if you want to know I will PM you -- to me it is funny, sad and so deja veau) she hung herself with regards to the relocation portion of our discussion. She suggested something based on info I put in a letter to her a while back that I might be leaving the area (think about the job I mentioned) and she ran with it. 

But sometimes if you have the hammer and by that I mean the leverage, real leverage, you can say what you want. But you have to be 100 percent sure you have the leverage. I've been there many a time as a lawyer. At least I always looked to see who had the leverage before I said a word. Even if you didn't, you could bluff depending on the other party and their understanding of the situation. Anyway enough about that bs.

Go for what you want. what you deserve. You were there for him, yes most times he was there for you, but this is his path not yours. In this you must detach totally and be completely selfish. Nothing wrong with that. It is what it is.

If I was in Texas I would be heading down December 3. And that is a fact. Ok maybe not, but you won't have problems in the dating department, believe me. 

One day, me, you, K, W, and LH will get together for a weekend and commiserate about things. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

Stay strong.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm not sure how much leverage I have...I'm just going with what I know of the man. Maybe I won't get my way and it's not really a loss either way. It just may be MORE of a win!

I'd love to hear the details...FA of your mediation. You may PM me...when you get a chance. I remember your letter the idea of relocation early on.

By the way...you could be my first date on Dec. 3rd! haha

I hope I don't have to be in court on Dec. 2. I am not planning on it. I have an appt. with my attorney on Monday.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I'd be privileged on Dec 3 to have the honor. Don't tease now. Can I get a rain check? Not sure if that is a day with my son or not at this time. I'm going to have to get some sort of abacus to determine these things.

Seriously, I would be there and be proud. I imagine all of us would be. I will pm you the details tomorrow and the revelations of today -- got to love my son. It really is history repeating itself.

I don't believe you actually have to be in court if it is uncontested. Heck I think the judge just does a cursory look over and signs. Takes too much time to actually read. Do too much of that in law school.

If you're alone on Turkey day, come to NC. We'll have all the fixins with the big bird.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's a date... without a date! ha

Good about not needing to be present for uncontested. That's what I heard.

I shouldn't be alone on T Day but I have a 4 day weekend. My first paid holiday. Thanks for the invite....I love other people's cooking!


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

These posts are so full of useful info - i have never thought about how to negotiate before - I am a little awestruck by you guys...I am going to study up before I work out final settlement with loser husband (sorry I am just feeling like calling him that now) 
A good friend of mine always says that the person who leaves has to buy their way out of the marriage....and by the way FA I am definitely keen on meeting up with all of you guys sometime in the not too distant future _ I am feeling in a very "making things happen" mood - so I reckon we should start planning - and guess what I bet we'll waste no time having a great time together - our spouses won't even rate a mention!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K, no reason to be in awe. That was my job to negotiate things. Figure out a way to make all sides seem happy with what they got, but protect my clients interests.

We'll all have to get our passports ready. I know I've let mine lapse.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yep make sure everyone seems happy - that's beautiful!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Yeah I would love to go to Texas. I do lke the Dalls-Fort worth area.. It is beautiful. Man I would not know how to explain to the wife who you are..  Hi dear these are just people that know our intimate details of life.. My wife is upset if I talk to the neighbors.. More of not being able to cope with who she has become and what she has done. The embarrasment. Still If I do transfer to Florida before my house sells I will be driving down to Florida. I will know in a few weeks whats going to happen there since I am going to talk to HR down their soon..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

I kind of think it is great that we are all anonymous but so 'intimate' - and the best thing - it is for us - not for them - even for you LH it has been a place for you to be honest and take stock without having to keep your hard work with W going....I have learnt and am learning so much and I am not leaving this place till we are all back on track -


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I understand about negotiating based on what you know of your husband, CW. I did that with my ex- and my lawyer kept telling me to expect the worst, but I knew how he would respond because of his guilt. 

I read about spousal in TX and it is rough. But you have a good case and his guilt on your side. So get as much as you can. It isn't like you're going to blow it on the wrong things...

I've been secretly hoping that you and FA get together.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K, you are right about it being anonymous and intimate at the same time. Maybe that is why you think I'm honest. Here it is easy to be honest. I have no expectations that anyone here would like me so I can be just me. It is helpful in that way. No shields, no protection, just lay it out there.

LH, yes I can imagine that conversation. Honey I'm going away for the weekend to meet with some people that know all about us and whom I've never met in person. 

I'd think we'd all have to wear name tags with Feelingalone, Loving Husband, Corpuswife, Knortoh, Wren, etc on them. Imagine the looks from those names. 

LH, yes Dallas is pretty cool. Always liked going through the Highland Park area. A buddy of mine grew up there. I saw A-Rods house there when he was with the Rangers. What a colosus that was. Also **** Cheney's house.

Dobo, hey now just keep that a secret but keep hoping for all of us.  Seriously thanks for the thoughts.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA- You guys know me already.. I have pictures all over.. I don't think I need to wear a name tag..  Hell you guys could go up to my wife and say hi..  I will post a pic from our wedding. I looked SOOOOO young.. So did she.. Well she was 20..


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I would ask him to treat me the way he would want to be treated if the situation were reversed. 

And I would stick with that theme. 





Corpuswife said:


> It's a date... without a date! ha
> 
> Good about not needing to be present for uncontested. That's what I heard.
> 
> I shouldn't be alone on T Day but I have a 4 day weekend. My first paid holiday. Thanks for the invite....I love other people's cooking!


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Hey!! If everyone is doing traveling, I know PA is a nice state to visit! I can introduce all of you to my children! lol. Hope everything is going well for you Corpus. And keep all the cards that you currently have in your hand. Your not doing it out of spite...you deserve this and then some to say the least out of this divorce.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

PA is a great state, especially the western portion. Go Steelers.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Been to Pittsburgh I like the city. I live on the other side of PA. As far as the steelers...don't mind them....but I'm a Redskins fan (although I am embarrassed to admit that as they are doing horrible) but I love watching any football game really.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Redskins? My ex-husband is a fan. I'm a tepid Iggles fan. 

Don't shoot me.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Hey dem Iggles did a number on the Giants and they are from PA so I've always liked them after the Stillers of course.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Hey ash your on my side. I'm just below Trenton. I'm literally a mile or 2 from pa.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I'm about 20 miles from the jersey/pa border. A fellow east coaster...good to know!!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You guys would be alot of fun. We already know each others lives in many ways. The US has many cool places that I'd love to visit. I love to travel and would like to visit everyone!!

Now that I have a "real" job it makes it difficult to travel at this point. Maybe next year.

I'm in Texas but Dallas is 8 hours or so away. We are HUGE!! I've never been to Dallas. 

Today was an emotional day for my H and I...more son stuff. Will know later (tomorrow) of the outcome. My D is sick. Then, my H spoke openly about the settlement. He's getting more comfortable talking about things that may require confrontation. 

He stopped by the house as our D wanted to stay "home" with me instead of tonight with him. 

He was very clingy (no other word).

He hugged me, a long time, before leaving and was talking in my ear before he left. He said I was a stronger person than him. He said he was a good parent but I was great. He kept giving me compliments (still hugging). I started to cry quietly. The emotions came....because of our son. 

On the way home tonight I thought...I didn't appreciate the family that I had until it was too late.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

He is still confusing the hell out of me.. I really don't understand what his motive is really. It's like he's sorry for doing this but still thinks it's better then the alternative which is staying in the family.. I'm a guy and I can't understand it..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Thinking of you CW


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I don't know about that CW....I'm sure you did appreciate your family but just in a different way. Things are changing now, and so now you are looking at what it HAD been, and prob wishing it could be like that again? But i wouldn't for a second say that you didn't appreciate everything, just now it's more prevelant how important family is.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Ash: I did take for granted what I had...at times. We all do as it's human nature. I don't beat myself up but I miss my life.

Hard day...my sons news isn't as bad as can be expected but not as good either. I just can't bear to talk about it here. Thank you for your kindness.

My H and I are postponing our divorce. He asked about this as his best friend suggested that we are going through enough. At first I told him that I didn't care....I wanted him to make a decision. I called him later and said..."maybe postpone until Jan. or whenever." We need to get over this hump and the holidays without the divorce. He agreed. 

So, I will be married long enough for my 25th anniverary!! haha 
I wonder if he wants to go to Vegas! just joking guys...


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Oh CW - talk about bitter sweet - when is it?


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

I feel for you CW. I really do.

I don't know what you are going through with your S but I imagine that it is just as difficult as your divorce. 

It might be best to focus your energy on your S and D at the moment. They probably need you and your H's full attention. 

You know what I don't get? It seems that all of us on this board are honest, hard working, caring parents and spouses. Yet, we've been dealt this really crappy and difficult hand at life. And I don't know why. It's not like we're drug dealers or criminals (at least not that I know). Maybe someday we'll understand but at the moment it seems so unfair.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Lets all head to the Bellagio. We (as in you CW, K, LH, Ash if you want to join in and Wren) can all get ripped and get married for the night in one of those cheap wedding chapels. That'd make Elvis stand up and take notice.

I've actually never been to Vegas. I'd actually prefer a nice warm beach with blue water. Bitter sweet for sure. Maybe this issue with your son is what you prayed for to get in your H's path. I hope so, I truly do. CW, if you need to talk, I"m here.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA-- i don't think my wife would like me to get married again..  At least not unless I was divorced... Though we were going to renew our vows..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Just bring her along. What the heck. She might feel out of place, but we'll welcome her with open arms.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Bellagio is where I spent my 20th anniversary. I had a lot of fun in Vegas. 

However, the last time we went I guess he didn't have the fun that he expected. Hindsight, he said..."remember when we went to Vegas last, I really didn't have much fun?" I was shocked? He is talking about something 2 years ago. It's weird and frankly his fault as well. What did he do to make it fun. I planned the trip and book a show. We went to eat at a fancy restaurant has steak etc. Was I supposed to provide the fun? What a jerk. 

I would love to go to Vegas. I have fun anywhere really. However, FA....I will not get married! Even with Elvis present.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

listen I think it has to be sun and surf when we get together guys - must go loser H is dropping off kids - my heart still starts poundingwhen I hear his voice - when will this be over??????????????????


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

Hey guys, Corpus, everyone. I stay up on thread to keep updated on all of your stories, I just don't post much as I really don't know what to say. Corpus I'm really confused on your situation, your H does alot of the same things as my exH did and still does. You know some of my story and I really wish I had some advice to give, but I'm still confused as hell, never got any answers, don't know if I ever will. But I just wanted to stop in and say hi, tell ya I'm thinking about you and the rest of the regulars in this thread, and should I ever have any insightful words I'll share them lol.

Take care, hugs to you all =)

Rhea


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Rhea: 

Thanks for stopping by...I know what you mean about insightful. What can you say about being confused? You don't have to be insightful to come here. How's your sitch?

K: I think the heart pounding will stop eventually. Probably sooner than later. I know for me it did. It was before I started pushing the divorce. When I started to get "sick" of thinking about how he felt and what he did or how he said something. It's naseating at time.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Oh CW, my heart hurts for you.
Sending you virtual hugs.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

When they no longer effect you then its over. Until then its your glimer of hope still sitting in your heart. I know pain is a lot. Especially when you see the spouse just moving on like nothing phasing them.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K, they are all right. I used to get tense and "worried" about what was going to happen when I saw her. Not any more. I can't pin point why but it just happened. LH is right that it is that glimmer and seeing them just go on like nothing has happened while you stand there and scratch your head thinking "so those last bunch of years never really happened?". It will pass.

CW, we'll skip Elvis and the chapels. I don't think I will ever do this again myself. But who knows. I just know I will be more guarded than ever and that might not be good either. I waited longer than most to give it a go and thought I had found the one, but life works in mysterious ways. I always fall back on the one thing my marriage did give me - my H. And that is pretty gosh darn great.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

thanks guys - but I am telling you again - must be a beach holiday complete with ****tails at sunset - I have a couple of places on east coast here in mind ....I am serious - I think we should start planning


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

The location doesn't matter to me. I live on across the street from the beach! You can stay at my house!!! We are all so darn spread out.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

OK CW - sounds like an invitation to me - when will we aim for - obviously it is going have to be warm and seeing as it is warm here now it must be cold there - that's how it works isn't it? So next summer????


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Yes its the opposite of you k. We are going into winter and your going into summer. Your toilet water also spins opposite direction. That would freak me out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Hey LH think you'd cope!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, they probably drive on the left side of the road too. 



Just kidding K.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Absolutely K...April-Sept. is warm here. I would say warm April and May and HOT in June, July, Aug. and Sept. Take your pick!!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, can you hear the waves at night? That sound makes me sleep sooo sound. That is why I love going to the beach. If I lived across the road, I might never get out of bed......


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

I can't say much about being confused Corpus as I think that's where I've found myself permenantly stationed. Today has been an incredibly aweful day for me. Very upsetting and tearful. Yes I still cry about it and the fact that it can still bring me to tears frankly p*sses me off. But I've never been one to be able to control my emotions very well so oh well I just let 'em flow knowing eventually they will stop. 

At this point I just wish my exH would have just left and never looked back. Because the connection is still there he knows it as well as I do and he refuses to do a d*mn thing about it. So to be quite honest for me to ever overcome this I'll probably just have to start ignoring him completely as I really have no control over myself when I'm speaking to him or when it comes to him. I don't initiate contact w/him unless its for a financial matter, the rest of the communication is ALWAYS initiated on his end. 

The confusion for me for the ways your husband and my ex are acting is just endless. They want to leave yet want to remain friends. You can tell they love you but they refuse to be with you completely, they only want it on a convenience factor HOWEVER they can't go w/out speaking or seeing you/us completely. I say the last part because like I mentioned above I don't communicate with mine unless he starts it. 

My ex is ok as long as I don't have questions. He refuses to talk about it. Refuses to take responsibility or make known why he did what he did. He just expects everyone to deal w/it and move on as he has (well half a$$ed moved on is what he's done). They just really throw me off. It's obvious that separating (or divorcing in my situation) has not rectified the issues that either one of them is dealing with. So to me its obvious that the marriage wasn't the problem to start with. It's also obvious that all though they want out neither one of them can seem to get all the way out. 

It all just makes my heart hurt, my soul feel kind of empty, and exhausts the hell out of my brain from thinking about it too much. Even though I've been told by friends, family, my ex even that this wasn't my fault nor decision I've just had to deal w/the cards that were dealt...It still consumes me in the "what did I do, what could I have done differently" kind of way. 

Most of all it just hurts me. I know I'll be ok without him. I know I'll survive etc etc yadda yadda it's just the whole d*mn situation seems as though it ought not have happened to start with and now my little family is no longer which is very lonely for me. Sometimes I just want to beat the tar out of him, or at least crack the side of his skull open (I mean that in a nice way lol) so I can gain some insight as to what in the hell is going on in that head of his. 

But anyway, enough of my pity party. We all have our bad days and this one is definately one of mine. 

Hope you're well.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

RHEA: We have VERY similiar circumstances as you've read. The divorce will probably not stop our "friendship" either. I would have to be mean to stop it.

If he thought you moved on with OM, I wonder how he would react?

Does he see OW? 

I knew this lady whose H left her. For 7 years (maybe more) she continued sleeping with him. He was living with the lady that he left her. She could not keep having this connection with him. It kept her from dating as her energy was on him. When they divorced she had opportunities to see other guys. She choose not to...now she's let herself go and doesn't care about the dating world. She is probably mid 50's.

I remind myself of this scenario. I don't want to be stuck!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I can't hear the waves. I live on the water on a canal that leads to the intracoastal waterway. It's relaxing but no more. I wish I could sleep but I can't seem to relax. Trying to deal at this point.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

CW- You don't want to be stuck.. Since love is a joy. It should be spent on somebody willing to give it in return. Yet facts are I believe most do not kow how to love. They go through the motions but don't know how to truely love. Some do it for a short time and then stop. Well most do. Then we become living partners not married. We all do it. I failed to explain why I pulled back and just ignored. We all do it and then it ends. Now CW can you learn for next time?? If you can you will have a better NEW relationship. I really believe for most people the 2nd marriage is better then the first because of the experiences. Saying I want and deserve better. I see you being like that.. You learned so much and now know the things to do to make sure its great..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

LH - you still need someone to 'meet' you - I wonder if 2nd marriages are any better in general? I am whinging about my H a lot tonight but he had the arrogance to say to me that he knew what he would like to change in our relationship but the reason he was leaving was more illogical - sorry sorry - 
it just feels so awful to learn all this stuff and not share it with our 'love' -


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

K- Yes you do but you have to realize the power is in you to do that. It's up to you how bad you want to meet somebody. Yoiu could do online dating. Singles ad. One of those single dances. It's up to you.. 

Unfortunately we don't communicate as adults. We are taught to hold things in and be politically correct. Unfortunately that is the same in relationships and most fail to achieve that openess that is required to be a success. As the 2nd one comes around we learn and see the signals. We catch when coming off the tracks quicker.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yep I think I'd be better at not ignoring signals - but can I just say right now nothing interest me less than having a relationship (well I wouldn't mind some casual sex! just joking..kind of!) I could handle an online relationship if it just stayed as that !


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, hoping you get some sleep. Just know we are all thinking of you.

LH, you hit the nail on the head again. I now have better skills, the skills to communicate the way I should have but will in the here and now and future. This is key. If you have just that it can work. Even when arguments arise you talk them through. It doesn't mean each will always be happy with the outcome of each argument but you talked it through.

CW, you won't be stuck. No way. I'm sure there are guys that know you that always secretly think, wow I wish she was single. 

K, I know what you mean about not ready or interested. Don't tease me and LH with that joking kind of comment. You already have an online relationship -- wink, wink, ha ha.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Yes we all flirt.. It's human nature. My wife tells me I am funny in person when it comes to that. She said I am a naturl flirt. She says I do it in front of her and I don't even realize it. I think its part of my charm. If you can call it that.  I though don't feel I have much I guess cause I am so up front with everybody.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

aah at least I got a reaction - always good to have a laugh about this stuff - I love that you guys are on the other side of the world and I can say this - without fear of any consequences at all - it is quite liberating 

you know when my H and I went to MC the counsellor kept on telling us to lighten up - and - I was so hoping that was how things would transpire - we'd just lighten up and he'd forget how friggin miserable he was -

I still run this technique by him occasionally when I am feeling pesky...
if he had more imagination he's run with it! 

LH, you the guru - do you think it's possible to joke your way into a happy marriage???


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Was that a reaction or something else ---- ha ha.

K, our MC counselor said the same thing about just having fun etc. Like your H, she didn't or wouldn't do it for some reason. Interesting both MCs said to try it.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

LOL.. You can though try and fool yourself your in a hapy marriage..  I know a few medications that might do the trick.. it will make everything seem great..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, Ohh tell us more, tell us more did he havve a car. I can usually use something like that after playing my Sunday afternoon soccer game. 2 - 3 hours of pure running and stopping and having a great time. But us "getting" older guys could use something with those knocks, bruises, strains and just plain I ran myself to death stuff.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I agree that you get it better the second time around...but that doesn't hold true for all. I was my H's second marriage...and well you all know the story of us! As far as humor goes. Humor plays a huge role in recovery of both mental and physical aspects. Patients of mine who have been able to "joke" or take light of their serious conditions (maybe being holed up in the hospital with broken bones, just getting out of a surgery, etc) usually heal quicker. Seen it happen! Maybe the same holds true for marriage. However in some cases you have to look hard for it. Me? Right now next to a miracle, I don't think anything could save my marriage.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Ash- You can only control yourself and YOU will have a better 2nd marriage cause YOU know the signs. Your H obviously still would rather blame then step up and see what he has done. If you don't learn you will repeat the same patterns.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

1st marriage=50% divorce rate
2nd marriages=66% divorce rate

Often we make the same mistakes or pick the same kind of person as our other spouse. It's more complicated with step children and mixing finances and family. 

I have this in my head right now..."if THIS marriage ended after 24 years, why wouldn't this marriage end?" How can I be completely comfortable that THIS person is the one? I know the answer but it still pops in my mind.

We all have been hurt. I am a skeptical person. I trust if you earn it. I expect loyalty and honesty. What are my freakin odds???? haha

Oh. It's too much energy to ask these question and worry. 

I've learned alot during this past year. Mostly, what NOT to do.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, you can't think of the odds or percentages, I know you know that. We all will be guarded -- I know I will be. But I was before as well and that didn't do me any good either. 

I don't believe you are skeptical at all, never felt that in your writing, but I do believe in earn it. Maybe that should be our motto, earn it.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Wow. Those percentages scare the crap out of me. 

Before I start dating or even consider getting back out there, I need to be comfortable being single. This will take some time as I was with my H for 7 years. 

I am hoping that if I do get in another relationship, my friends and family will pull me aside or slap me if I end up with someone like my H.


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

Ash22 said:


> I agree that you get it better the second time around...but that doesn't hold true for all. I was my H's second marriage...and well you all know the story of us! As far as humor goes. Humor plays a huge role in recovery of both mental and physical aspects. Patients of mine who have been able to "joke" or take light of their serious conditions (maybe being holed up in the hospital with broken bones, just getting out of a surgery, etc) usually heal quicker. Seen it happen! Maybe the same holds true for marriage. However in some cases you have to look hard for it. Me? Right now next to a miracle, I don't think anything could save my marriage.


I was my ex's 2nd marriage as well, the first time he married some girl right after she graduated high school, he was 6 yrs older than her, she cheated on him within a few months. I think that marriage lasted 6 months total. He's now since we've separated/divorced ended up w/a girl that's fresh 21, we'll see how long that one lasts...bets anyone? LOL. I can't help but jest at the situation. She's a piece of work and I say that in all seriousness, not just because she's the chick w/my ex. 

I'm pretty sure it will take him a couple more before he figures it out. He just keeps looking for something to make him whole. I know our spouse is kinda like the half that makes us whole in a romantic fantasy type of way. But J has deeper issues and will never find himself completely happy until he figures out how to make himself happy by himself first. Make sense? So here's to hoping he doesn't rush into marriage #3, especially since he can't stay away from me yet and I doubt whoever she is would care for that too much. 

This all still strikes me as off since there is ONE divorce in my ex's entire family....his Mom and Dad's side both. That divorce was many many years ago (his Dad's Dad and Mom)...so it's weird to me that it seems as though he takes it lightly and is like no big deal, I don't need to do any work, I'll just get D'd anytime life gets a little thick for me.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

msl: Ask them to, when you start dating, give you a smack if you need one. That way they won't feel like they are butting in without your approval!

I would be lucky to date someone like my H. Really. He's a good guy. I would just like the other guy to be more emotionally available. No other complaints. Oh yea...except the running away crap. Don't care for THAT either!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Rhea: He likes them young! Wow. I guess for entertainment purposes but I couldn't see anyone older having anything in common with a youngster. I have a 21 year old myself-no thanks!

He'll figure it out Rhea...you are right. He needs to make himself happy by looking inward. My H and your H...that is ONE scary thought!


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

I think he likes em young cause they're dumb. He can pull more sh*t past them, he's playing this one like a fiddle and she's honestly clueless about it. She thinks he's a prince but then again she doesn't really know what he's up to. I feel bad for her really, but I can't save them all. Maybe it is for entertainment who knows. I've asked just out of curiousity...he can't answer...bingo I say but whatever. He knows I know him very well, he can't pull much past me and hates it when I call his shots and know what he's doing. I'm like hello, I was married to you I've known you for years. It was my job to know you lol...don't be surprised I can figure out your games whether they include me or not...he's like yep, you do know me well I always knew that. Part of what attracted to me to you was that you knew me well the good and the bad....hmmm what a gomez! Yeesh!

I just hope for her sake that she doesn't end up in the same situation as I did. Head over heels and then dropped on my a$$. But I don't think it'll get that far to be honest. I give it 6 months tops.


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

I'd like to put your H and my ex in a room together lol and just listen to them....would be an interesting experiment haha!

I honestly feel bad for them. It must be sad inside them.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Hey now....not all 21 year olds are dumb....but I will say that a good percentage are...


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

Oops, didn't mean to offend. You're correct not all are, but a vast majority still have a lot of maturing to do as far as life and love etc is concerned. Big difference between 21 and 30.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

See why we think you are so special Ash?
you are the exception not the rule! 
I think back to when I was 21 - I was sweet but a real goose in so many ways - 


CW I think the same about any future partner I may have - I won't be looking for 'better' than my H - I don't really think that is how it is going to work - we didn't have bad marriages - 
my H doesn't want to think that 

what pisses me off about him at the moment is that he is content to tell the kids that their future is just going to be 'different' not better (how could he say it will be better - they aren't stupid!) but he is thinking to himself - but my future will be better - I really really despise his logic at the moment - so he gets a better future and we all get 'different' one ...he's a f***wit. 

okay okay - so maybe I'll be going for someone 'better' after all!


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

While it is difficult not to compare to your ex-, it is better to think about what it is that you want and don't want when choosing a mate. I remarried someone totally different than the kind of guy I am normally attracted to. I had to keep getting my head around the idea that different wasn't a bad thing. Also, not trusting my own judgement was probably in order. ;-)

You just have to take what you've learned and use it. That has nothing to do with better than the ex-.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Rhea, you didn't offend me at all! Don't apologize. When I found out that my H was talking to a 21 year old I felt old! And I'm only 22, lol! Guess age really is just a number its how you feel or how you carry yourself.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

This is way left field but has anyone ever seen the Will Ferrel film Kicking and Screaming ? FA if you haven't seen it you must - anyway there is a very funny scene where he is using these terms better not different - different not better - I just thought of it and it made me laugh and I figured we all needed to laugh


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Yes...comedy should be mandatory at this point! I'd love to laugh...really.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Hey CW how is your job going?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

That is one Will Ferrell movie I haven't seen K. I'll have to rent it.

CW, yes we all need laughter in our lives right now. I got funny stupid with Harrison tonight just for that reason. And yes how is the job? Are you adjusting to working?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's going well. I got to do the REAL job today as I've been in the mandatory company training (benefits, accounting stuff, etc). 

I feel overwhelmed with my life, at times. I've started a new job and I'm trying to learn the details. My son is having great difficulty. My marriage is almost over but I'm still trying to negotiate the terms and meet with my lawyer. The holidays are coming and I want to treat it "right" due to my daughter. 

All of these major stressors at once. In my old days, I would have someone to share the details of my life. Now...


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes, now you have many people to share with. Remember that.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Yes. You are right!

My H has been might quiet this weekend (past 3 days). Somethings up? I'm not sure but he hasn't been as active (texting/phone/etc). Hmmmm.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Don't read into it. Not worth thinking about.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Maybe he is in deep thought..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

LH you always make me laugh - have you ever heard of that play no exit ? it's about 3 people in hell - well if I had my way I'd have you, my H and CW's H all together in hell - I would be sorry indeed to do this to you - but just desserts for our bum husbands!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

No never heard of it but I watched a play on Broadway called run for your wife. It was about a man who had 2 wives and was running inbetween them. I can tell you he had it very difficult..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Don't do that to LH, through my w in there.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Now that could be an interesting combo! but you are right LH will be in Heaven with us!!!! sorry guys I am slipping badly into delirium at the moment!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I mentioned last night at Monday night football with the wife about this site.. I also mentioned about the 400 posts I got on my thread.. She wanted to read it.. I don't know. I beat her up a lot. I know it's mostly stuff I already told her but still I feel like this is my personal site and I told her she has her FB.. I don't go in there. Still I tihnk she is curious..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

LH don't let her get on here !


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Well she is a smart cookie.. I think she will figure it out.. It won't be hard for her to search about marriage sites and see this pop up on a google search. I just hope she respects me.. I told her I have pictures of our family up and even our wedding pictures. SHe had a feeling I took a few cause she said they were moved onto her shred folder. I told her it's nothing but good things. I am not trying to hook up..  I did mention the 4 of you guys..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yeah but LH this is your space - throughout all of this something for you - I hope she does respect your wishes - I can't think of anything my H is less likely to do than check out a website like this - I have told my kids about it and my 'on-line friends' - they are bound to feeback to him - he will just think I am going mad!!!! hee hee


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

LOL.. I don't mind if she meets you guys in the future. Case for some reason we meet in a spot with everybody. Told her about Vegas..  Yes I hope she respects my wishes. I do need a place to vent without recourse..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, I do hope she respects your wishes. But as you said there isn't anything here that you've written that you haven't told her. I don't have to worry about my w coming onto a site like this. Why would she it is ALL my fault. Therefore no need for her to search for answers.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yeah FA our spouses have it all worked out - in fact my x said to me recently that he was working stuff out with his Psych - he seemed pretty smug about it ! he has someone to endorse him - that's pretty much all he needs - he likes his professional opinions - he had a psych there when we got together - who told him it was a good thing and now that he is leaving he's got one telling him it's a good thing to get out....he's so weak


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

K- He's weak cause he is refusing to address his issues in your marriage. He is weak cause he knows only how to be selfish. He's not a real man cause he wants to be selfish and run from his problems. This unfortunately is how things are today. No accountability for your actions. I see it at my job. Everybody goes about their business.. I have a guy at work that should have been fired a month after he started. He is worthless. Yet 9 months later still there. He can't sell. He doesn't help around the store. He takes long breaks and comes in late. WORTHLESS.. yet they keep him..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes LH, run away. I did that by withdrawing but I didn't physically leave. I wouldn't, ever. But that doesn't excuse my actions. IN that way I was selfish or emotionally dishonest or whatever you want to call it. I realize that was wrong. But the funny thing to me is that I've been open about everything and now she just doesn't "trust" me. Or is it that she just never totally trusted me in the first place because of her issues. I told you my brother's observations about that incident. As I said deep down I don't think she trusts anyone but her mother and brother. Not even her father - for the reasons I told you. That is a huge issue. That means she is always searching for something to "mistrust" after the euphoria ends. During that time everything is fun and roses. But when it is time to get real, she can't. Then falls back into narcissism. Run away. Wasn't that a Bon Jovi song?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

What about Free Fallin by Tom Petty - that's what i think of with my H...


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA- There is a song that reminds me of what your going through. It's by Keith Urban You'll Think of Me. If you haven't listened to it watch it on you tube.. I think it's perfect of what your going through..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks LH I'll check it out. Had to be a country song didn't it. 

You know she sent me lyrics from a song back in April that she said described how she felt. It was an Alanis Morissette song. I posted it on a thread. I sent her a song by the Boss a while later. Oh well she didn't understand that one I don't think. Or didn't care to most likely.

Stick a fork in me I'm done.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

The music thing HURTS - we played so much music in our house - everything meant something - lyrics - 
when J left I packed it all and gave it to him - every CD was one I'd given him or he'd given me - I had to start again - thank goodness for I-tunes - 
there is this Australian singer - not Keith Urban ! - someone with talent - called Paul Kelly and he has this song called Careless - and my H used to sing it every night - 
and I used to think he sang it about us - but I was wrong....


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

ohhh yes, music!. That plays a role in a lot of my emotions now. There is quite a bit of music out there describing a lot of what we are going through. I'm not really a country fan, I'm more of an R&B and Jazz type girl, but its funny, in a sad way, how certain lyrics can just tear you apart, thats why I find myself listening to Bob Marley quite a bit...its a pick me up, for me anyways.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash, I could use one of Bob's pick me ups. He was a great performer.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Keep on going with bob anyone else who touches you Ash - my boys and I keep on finding sonsg we love and downloading them and playing them very loud and singing along - so therapeutic - music can hurt - but boy can it -

do you know that song - 
it's out now - "help I'm alive" - I love that at the moment - it is like everything I am feeling - oh yes and the David Bowie/Queen version of "under pressure" - says it all - and it is a great way to let my kids know how I am feeling...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I think of AC/DC HIghway to Hell..when I think of my H!!!

Just joking guys...

My H is really good about assisting with pickups during "my weeks" now that I am working. He invited me to pizza with them tonight but I wasn't out of work yet. 

You know I don't think anything of the invites anymore. They just ARE.

LH: You may want to keep this place top secret. What about when you want to vent? You will then feel monitored.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes Highway to Hell, a great album. I still remember the time when I was a kid and came up into our living room and my dad had an AC/DC eight track tape cranked. The song was "I've got big balls, I've got big balls, I've got the biggest balls of them all". 

I"m like, great song dad. Didn't know you were into Angus.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

And yes I said eight track.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Wow what's an eight track? Haha... I'm just kidding I do know what an eight track is...I think lol


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

Lmao AC/DC on eight track =), speaking of AC/DC my 10 year old sweet little daughter is about to get her first taste of them in concert....can they still function enough to put on a concert? JK I jest I jest. My Dad loves AC/DC and so he bought tix for the concert and wanted to take my little one, he was so excited just him and her, but then it got xcld. Hopefully they'll reschedule cause I know my Daddy is disappointed, not so much of the concert being xcld because he's seen them many times, but the fact that he can't take my little one to her first "rock" concert awe =(

Ok just had to share my little story lol


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I would love to see AC/DC in concert and take my kids (15 and 21 years). My son is a fan. XM has a AC/DC station and my son and I would rock out. I am really a rock fan. I like the other music as well but enjoy rock the most.

Haha...I love the movie "School of Rock" as well with Jack Black. Fun!

My parents had a console stereo and I had the AC/DC album. Wore it out! Still love them.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

At this point I feel like I am going through the motions.

Too many things on my plates at this time. 

Thanksgiving weekend is creeping on my doorstep. 

It used to be a time of many traditions. I have to make new ones for my daughter. I can't neglect her because I feel like crap.

Work is going good. At first, I wasn't sure about my coworkers but ended up blending in well. I was in no mood to have drama at a new workplace. It ended up ok. 

I feel almost numb at this point. That's why I say that I am going through the motions.

Maybe I'm not making sense. Too tired.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

One of the hardest things about separation/divorce for me is the tradition part. We had worked very hard, me and my wife, to establish traditions and make each season/holiday special with things that we did with the kids. So many things. That's changing now and it makes me sad...and angry....that those special times have been compromised. They're only wide eyed kids for short time and I'm angry that my wife's selfishness has changed those things forever. I can still carry on some aspects, but there is certainly a pang in my heart when those things that we used to do together are for some inexplicable reason fractured due to her choices. She'll feel it, no doubt. But those good memories are of little consequence to her right now.


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

Oh Corpus I feel ya. Once I make it through Thanksgiving and Christmas I will have gone through a full year of stuff w/out the ex...some he was "there" but not "there" for. Make sense?

So far I've made it through my bday, anniversary, valentines day, mother's day, father's day, his bday, and now we're coming up on the last two of the year, two of the hardest. Thanksgiving we always spent w/his family...and Christmas all over the place.

My thoughts are with you for a peaceful holiday season that being said it goes for everyone here. May we all "make it" and may it be as peaceful as possible for everyone.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I don't feel excited about much. I put on a "face" in front of others. That way folks don't question how I am doing. 

It's not fun not having my family unit like it should.

I know you all understand. I do hope for peace for all of us.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Since this is the season for families it will be tough on you hun.. Hang in there..


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I know you pretty much are already but I would just keep focusing on you children. How old are you kids CW? Your son is 21 right? It will be hard for you most definitely since you both have so many years together under your belt. Look at it like this is different, not better, just different and start some new traditions.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash you are right. Different traditions.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Yes, that's my plan. It's (new traditions) already started for Thanksgiving. 

It's sad for my daughter.


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

How old is your Daughter Corpus?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

She is 15 years old. I also have a son 21 years old. 

The thing about my daughter is she doesn't express her emotions often. Especially ANY feeling regarding the divorce or other things happening in our family. I encourage her to open up and tell her that we are here for her anytime. I also told her of my concerns regarding holding things in. She told me she tell her good friend. I'm not so sure. 

She's very close to my H and I. In fact, my H and I were talking about her and how she doesn't like to hurt our feelings (for the most part). Although lately she's had an attitude regarding picking up after herself and doing chores. 

I offered counseling but she said "no way." I was thinking about having mandatory counseling for her. I would tell her that since we are getting divorced the court wants you to go to at least 4 or 5 sessions of counseling. Not sure how defiant in counseling she would be....Anytime you are forced to go to counseling it usually doesn't do much good. Sooooo.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

my boys resisted but I think it was cause they didn't know what it was - once they did they liked it


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I think you are right..K. Maybe give it a few sessions and try it.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I remember when I was fifteen my parents took me to counseling. I hated it I resisted it and to this day if they ask I prob will continue to say that I hated it. But looking back I wish that I had given it a chance bc I think in the long run if I had I wouldn't have made the same decisions.

I hope you and your D can give it a shot.


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

I had to do counseling when my parents split as well. Give it a shot.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

the way i did it with my boys was that I told them that I'd like them to meet my counsellor because I talked to her alot about them and she asked about them - 
they have lots of adults they like and they saw her like one of their aunties - they were pleased that it was just talking - and they were also surprised that her rooms looked like a lounge room...Ray told me that he thought she'd be wearing a white coat...


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Yeah binging them with you is a good way to ease it. They can relax knowingparents are there..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

My d is alot like her dad. Figures if she ignores her feelings that they will go away. Doesn't want to talk as it upsets her.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

That's pretty unusual for a 15 year old...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

She's not a chatterbox or gossip or overly emotional person. 

I guess it may be unusual. I know I wasn't like that at 15. 

I told my H, the other night, how I worried about her and felt bad. The family that she knew is no longer her. 

She now stuck going between us and never complaining. I thank GOD that we aren't ugly or fighting.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

my eldest is like her - never complains and he is the one I worry about


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Give the counseling a shot, CW. I desperately wanted my mom to go with me when I was a teen. She went once and walked out on me. She did more damage in that 5 minutes than many other experiences. Just being there, ready to support, even if she doesn't respond to the counseling will at least show her how much you care and recognize the difficulty.
I feel for you. Sending you virtual hugs.


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

Ahhh yes the Holidays. yippee. I so wish we all were not in the same boat. My fingers are crossed for a better year next year. My turkey day plans changed from making dinner at my friends house to making dinner at mine. I didn't think he would be able to make the trip to my house due to the fact that he is terminally ill and very weak. So seeing as how I am now going to be home cooking I asked my H if he would like to come over. He said yeah probably. Now I am regretting it. This is most likely my last Thanksgiving with my dear friend and I thought it would be my first without my H. It will be very weird with H there. It has been almost 11 months since he walked out on us. My poor friend has no choice in his leaving and he choose to spend this day with me and the kids while H made his choice. grrrrrr


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

How sad for your friend. I hope his Thanksgiving is peaceful and full of warmth.

Just curious as to why you invited your H? Was it a moment of weakness? 

My H came by to pick up my D. I was eating dinner and offered him some. He had something cooking already. I really don't have the kind of feelings that I once had for him. I love him but he does nothing for me. I still want my marriage but I feel sad for him. He doesn't appear happy or fulfilled. 

I find it funny when I catch him checking me out. He complimented me on my boots and called me "hip." I told him..."thanks..I know!" I have a don't-care attitude around him. It's how I feel. Not sure how attractive it is to him but guess what? I don't care!!!

I have so many things to do and worry about now. I can't handle worrying about my relationship anymore. It's one thing if something could be done. Why paddle upstream. It's taken me a good amount of time to get to this point.

When my divorce comes around Jan. 6th..I won't feel good. I'm sure my emotions will come up again. My life has changed.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Yep, I think all of our lives have changed. And changed in a way we never expected. 

I am happy for you CW. You are moving on and doing what feels right to you. I know how exhausting it can be trying to figure out your spouse.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks MLS...you are doing a terrific job yourself. 

It's good to start dusting ourselves off and standing up again.


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

I guess I invited my H because I didn't want him to feel left out. HA! How stupid is that? At first I was suppose to go to my friends house and it made me feel good to tell H that the kids and I had plans. I asked him the other night as he walked out the door if he ever thinks of coming back home. He shook his head and said No. I said so you want it this way forever? He said I don't know. I asked if he was happy, he said not happy but feeling better without fighting and arguing. I give up!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Believe: I understand the feeling sorry thing. I still feel sorry for my H. He isn't happy either. We never fought hardly. He is doing the same thing he has always done. However, he's alone. Doesn't that sound like fun?

Everytime I want to do something for him and feel sorry...I ask "who does this benefit." If it's the kids or myself then I do it. If it's soley for him....skip it!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

That is a good way to look at things CW. I'm going to incorporate that into my thinking.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Well CW your doing a great job of disconnecting. You are not allowing his actions to effect you. It will make you stronger and able to think clearer. Not to say you can't connect in the future just not allowing to be hurt. Keep it up.. I work horrible hours this past 2 weeks soI have had less time to chat in here.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Yes. LH the disconnect is there but I still love him. I leave it in God's hands at this point.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

You are very strong Corpus! And I continue to admire you. Even though what you are going through is very hard, you are handling it!


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

Believe said:


> I asked him the other night as he walked out the door if he ever thinks of coming back home. He shook his head and said No. I said so you want it this way forever? He said I don't know. I asked if he was happy, he said not happy but feeling better without fighting and arguing. I give up!


Believe,

I can tell you from a guy's perspective that this type of exchange pushes "nice guys" further away. Why? Because it forces them to lie (when he said "I don't know") which in turns makes them feel bad which in turns increases the anger and rage they feel toward the person making them feel guilty.

So why did he lie? Because he doesn't want to hurt you and he wants to avoid a confrontation. (Welcome to the emotional yo-yo that "nice guys" put you on.)

I'm guessing that H's mindset is now: I don't really want to go to Believe's place because she confronts me and makes me feel bad.

The preceeding was one uninformed guy's opinion and is worth exactly what you paid for it - zero. Read and believe at your own risk.

(Sorry for the temporary hijack)


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

always so insightful d*zed - it is with a fascinated horror that I always read your posts ....


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

Dazed
So you think he lied by saying he doesn't know because he really wanted to say yes? 
To me it gives me a glimmer of hope, even a small one. Is that wrong? What do you think about the invite to dinner?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

d8zd: I absolutely adore your insight! I totally get this way of thinking....now! 

I will never ask my H again about the relationship. It broke my heart to get the same canned response and I felt like I was begging to gain some information from him. Anything! That was when I disconnected. I felt like I was pitiful.

Believe: Given that you H still wants to be connected but isn't ALL in...I would go on with my life. Pretend he doesn't exist. It will be the most difficult thing that you can do. My H is VERY much like yours. If I asked him today...why? can we? He would give me the same canned response. The fact is their capacity for telling the truth is low compared to wanting to not hurt feelings/relieve guilt/etc. 

He/They need to be set "free" to find their way. Who wants to be with someone that you have to beg/convince/plead/manipulate/question over and over and over again. If they want it...they will come!


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

I know. I hear it and understand but I still don't listen. (just like a kid) 
The only reason why I brought it up with H is because since he has returned from his trip he has gotten it from every angle about how much the kids need him and how distraught they were while he was gone. The daycare said it. My son's pre-k teacher had a meeting with H and I to tell him that my son started peeing his pants in class while H was away. I guess I thought that maybe hearing all of this from other people for a change would have resonated. That teacher was awesome! She told H that these children are gifts and need to treated that way and how important Dad's are to them. It felt good. (for a moment)


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Incredible teacher!

I know it's may be the most difficult part of a separation. It's easier to chase them or divorce them. It's the hardest thing to let them go!!

He justifies why he's gone-to himself. He feels guilt. However, his feelings are overpowering his logical self.

Do what you need to do to protect you and the kids. Letting him go will allow him to look inward and resolve his issues sooner.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanksgiving turned out nice. I cooked dinner. My friend came over to join us along with my mom and her husband. My daughter was also home. We ate and visited. 

My friend and I had some wine and visited more after everyone left. She told me her brother had the hots for me. I was flattered that he thought I was hot and sweet! haha. He's semi dating another gal that I know. A big no no for me. Plus, I'm not at ALL interested. 

Woke up this AM and went to go get a tree with my D. My H offered help. I politely said "no thanks." He would love nothing more to "help." I'm not sure of his motives. Being an NG, I now suspect that it may not even be sincere. I think...he'd help but feel resentful because he REALLY didn't want to help. HAHA!

I'm going to dinner with H's sister and brother in law to a fancy restaurant. It's my brother in laws birthday. They asked me out! 

Then something later with a friend. Social me.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Good Corpus!! It sounds fun, and you deserve that! Staying busy, talking with friends, you are doing great!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I told you there were guys just waiting for the opportunity to have a date with you. Doesn't surprise me at ALL that your friends brother did.

Hope you found a good tree. Sounds like you at least enjoyed your day.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I'm not sure if they wanna date or something else! Not interested either way. This particular guy is a player. 

Yep. I found a tree and just put on the lights. I thought I had enough but need more! 

Dinner was nice with the in-laws. They told me something interesting that I wasn't to share with my H.

My H's dad is very laid back. NEVER gives advice to anyone. Figures people are going to do what they want anyway. True. I've been dissappointed that his parents haven't questioned him on his decision. 

I've known that his mom has been upset. She sees me at a daughter. Calls weekly to tell me how much she loves me. 

Found out that my H's dad had a talk. Seems to have asked my H..."what are you doing? You have a family that loves you and a daughter to care for until she leaves high school. Why can't you stick around for her at least?" My H's shoots back.."dad why didn't you stick around in your first marriage for your 3 daughters?" Touche! I think my father-in-law should have taken a different approach!!

I was even surprised that he tried. My H is so defensive at this point. My brother in law tonight (retired chief of police) told me he's known dozen of guys that have left their wives. They always seem to have someone waiting in the wings. He can't believe and doesn't believe that my H has someone waiting. He is VERY surprised and perplexed by this. He says..."S...he'll be back within a year." I said "yea...I won't be waiting." He said "good."


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, like your BIL. At least your father in law tried. Got to give him credit for that. Might not have been the best way -- full frontal assault leaving his left flank open. But they are all right.

Glad you found a good tree. Maybe it is one of the great NC trees we have. I always hate it when you don't have enough lights. 

Didn't know he was a player. Not a good type that is for sure. But I was right. Believe me it is your inner self that is attractive to guys. At least on here your inner strength shines brightly to us all.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: So nice FA. Yep. His dad was blind-sided! haha poor guy. 

I bet my tree is a NC tree. By the time it gets chopped down, shipped here, sits in a parking lot and to my house...it's worn out! I've had a nice looking fake tree for the past few years (huge). But, I decided that I couldn't man handle it out of the attic by myself. My D loves the smell of the real deal. So...I made the call. 

I don't know FA. I'm so real that anyone fake is so unattractive. I am a skeptic with people. They have to prove themselves to be loyal and honest. I can smell a rat easy. I'm a lucky girl to be so sensible. I won't get taken advantage easily. 

So much for the weekend with my D. She is going with her girlfriends family to watch the HS playoffs a few hours away. She's 15 and I'm not about to make her hang with me becaause I miss her!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Fake is unattractive no matter what. I always call those people wannabes. Wannabe this. Wannabe that.

Sorry if your tree is worn out. We get great trees here from the mountains just an hour or so away. Wish you had that. Your D would love that smell.

I understand your skepticism. What makes a person unattractive to you in that regards? Never figured you could be taken advantage of easily.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: Unattractive in that they pretend that they are someone that they are not! I LOVE confidence and humor. I detest arrogance as well. I know many wealthy people that you wouldn't know they have money. Then there are others that APPEAR to be wealthy but are in debt up to their eyeballs. Of course, this economy has flushed out alot of wannabees.

Tonight, I find it extremely weird. I went out to a casual bar tonight with a friend. Two guys invited us to play pool. One asked for my number...I told him nicely "nope." Prior, they asked us what we did. I asked the same. They responded "law enforcement" and was "secretive." I thought BS. They were all of 30. Hunks and all. My skeptism is there. Why does he want my number? Why didn't he tell me what they did. Maybe they were some undercover secret agents! haha.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Could of been secret agents. Did they have on unusual rings - could of been secret decoder rings they got out of a Capn Crunch box or something. Maybe they were intimidated by you and your friend.

Never know. Did you beat them in pool?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Given their age they might have gotten their secret decoder ring out of the Capn Crunch box! I don't think they were intimidated but they were very nice. 

I actually became the "The Black Widow" (I think that the pro ladies name) in one shot. I ended up putting in 4 balls. Then, I missed 2 shots all together with only hitting the cue ball. Finally, I sunk the 8. It was fun. I hadn't played pool in 10 years!!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ah yes the Black Widow - or maybe Fast Eddie Felson aka Paul Newman. Pool can be fun with the right crowd.

Then if not intimidated, they found you attractive and fun. Wanted your number for who knows. But obviously blundered with the i'm 007 stuff. Oh well. At least you had a good time and that is what its all about.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

I'm so proud of you, CW. 

Look at you going on with your life! You seem like such the social butterfly now. I envy your social calendar.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thank you MLS. I am social or I try to be. I am still sad as well.

Don't let me fool you...I'm hurting still. But the key, for me, is to continue on and not wait around anymore.

I'm not sure how long, this life of mine, will take to feel "normal." I've been a wife and mother for almost 25 years. Now, I am a mother. Strange.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Last night we had a bonfire at the beach. Absolutely beautiful. The beach had a soft breeze (rare) and the sand wasn't too soft to drive (recent rains). It was cool enough to warrant a fire but not freezing. I got home at a perfect time to watch a little tv and go to bed.

I had texted my H something. He called me right away. He thought we were made at him this weekend. I didn't say anything just listened. He said "I though you and B were mad at me. Usually someone texts or calls but this weekend nothing. Then, I found out B was out of town." I didn't say I was mad or respond to his statements. WOW! I thought..he's either bored or sensitive at these point. Why would he worry about me being angry? Which I am not. 

He's coming over this afternoon to do some work in the garage on our son's vehicle. He sounded excited to come over. 

This is me NOT analyzing him. I don't really care if he's excited or happy or upset at this point.

We agree to finalize the divorce division today. None of this back and forth stuff (my suggestion). He doesn't want to argue. I DON'T. We haven't. I stand up for what I think is right on my behalf...he's not good at that but instead skirts the issues without being confrontational. He is totally NG at these moments. It's hard to negotiate with someone who really doesn't want to negotiate but pretend he does. I have been flexible on my side but he "pretends" to be.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

CW- I think not calling him is good. He has to start feeling alone. He can't keep thinking you'll be there. In a way of getting reality to sit before it's final. He seems to be thinking everything will be status quo even after the divorce. You might want to start distancing yourself. When he asks you about it just say your moving on with your life.. Wonder how he will take it..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I agree with LH. I don't call my w at all. In fact I don't talk with her at all outside of where it concerns H. When I drop off or pick up H or she does I don't say much. I don't really look at her at all. At mediation we were taking a break. Walking down the hall she was like this might seem weird but I need a hug from you. I said why? Because it seems you hate me. I just kept walking after that. Not analyzing here either but seems similar to your H worrying about being "hated".

INteresting. I'll let LH analyze that when he has time.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I don't call or contact my H at all. Unless it has something to do with our kids or mutual business. This has been going on for 4 months with me.

I have distanced as much as I can with kids. We had more contact with our son's stuff this month. That's it.

He's on his way now. I have to get this final thing hammered out with our divorce. It's annoying. He was trying to joke with me on the phone. I told "just come over..ok." 

Yes FA...it's weird that they are worried about being hated. They want to make themselves feel better. Not us.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

He just left. These divorce talks are killing me. I feel like I am dying inside right now. 

He agreed to my one point on support. He is thinking about the other point. He'll get back to me tomorrow.

Guys...I think I get more and more detached. Then, I am crying like baby over this discussion (after he left). He's a pure selfish ass.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Not sure but a lot of times they want to act like its all normal.. Now FA she could be looking for strength from you.. I think it was great you walked away. She can't use your love and affection when she wants too. This is a positive step for you and your relationship. It's going to get her to think differently..


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

You are detached to a point, CW. But the finality and evidence of his selfishness only reminds you more of the wound. It's okay to cry. It hurts!!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I know how you feel about the divorce talks. Breaks my heart too. Like you sometimes I feel so strong about it, but then turn around and break down. 

LH, thanks for the pat on the back. It didn't feel right for me to hug her just because she wanted one. Like CW said, trying to make themselves feel better not us. That is what she wanted for me to make her feel better. 

I just don't know what to do at times is all. You know I did really want to hug her but if she wants to proceed with this, then I can't.

I wish this would all go away.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Oh Corpus, I wish you weren't feeling that pain, but I guess its just testament to you being a good human! Prepare yourself, I am sure you will experience these feelings again, as I'm sure you know but you keep pressing forward CW, and that gives testament to your strength. Just come up with a mantra, a positive one that you can repeat over and over in your head. I use the best is yet to come...you can use it too if you want!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks for the support guys!

I just may borrow your mantra ASh!

I didn't sleep last night at all. I can't believe I don't feel worse. I guess I am getting used to my overactive mind. This divorce talk is maybe my last. It will be settled soon. 

I need to find a place. Pack. Untie our money from each other. One last bit being chipped away from our lives together.

I wish it would go away too FA....

Sometimes I wish I would go away and move or run or escape. I love my kids too much.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I've had those thoughts too CW. My buddy works all over the world in various countries for international organizations. I keep thinking give him a call and see if he can hook me up. But I couldn't with H.

Keep going strong. You can get through this. The best is yet to come. Good mantra Ash.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> I need to find a place. Pack. Untie our money from each other. One last bit being chipped away from our lives together.
> 
> Sometimes I wish I would go away and move or run or escape. I love my kids too much.


I had this same conversation with my therapist yesterday. Well, substitute kids with my rescue cats. * It's going to be difficult to find homes, no-kill shelters for them if/when I decide to leave this home. Everything in this area is overflowing.*

But I want to run, start over, and separate everything from my life with J. My therapist reminded me that detachment and running are two different things. She encourages me to start making plans but to be easy with myself as the holidays are so painful, hence causing rash decision-making.

So, I feel you CW!


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

You both can start over but not necessarily run away. CW, you got a new job! That's a start. Maybe once things "calm down" a little see where you have extra time and take classes in something you always wanted...or start doing stuff that you could never do while you were married, other than the obvious ie:dating!

Wren, your right the holidays will be hard and they will put pressure on you to make a big decision, so the best you can do is write stuff that you want to accomplish or do down, and then after the holidays take a look at it. (And see which ones still make sense!)


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

CW,

Are you and D not going to remain in your current house? If not, is D taking that news okay?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

D8zd: No. We are moving. The house is too big and I don't want the upkeep. I told him, from the beginning, that I didn't want it. I only want the cash for my half. He's never argued the point.

My D has known also. She will stay with her dad in this house (the big house) with her stuff and bed. The only difference is her dad will be living here solo. He will eventually sale the house when the market is better (I guess).

She's excited for a new room and new stuff. I am not. I don't care if I move but I don't feel like moving. This saturday I am going house hunting. Most people would be excited-not me.

I'll get my new start without running away. Although, if I was single without kids I'd be "starting" somewhere exotic!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

fyi: My H called tonight. I got what I wanted regarding the divorce. My discussion worked and last Sunday I did hit him hard (in a nice way). He caved and I feel this is what was needed for "fair." 

I am not at all excited. He will call his attorney tomorrow to rewrite the paperwork.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

CW, I'm glad you got what you deserve and wanted re: the settlement. But I know it's bittersweet.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Cw. That if great. I know its not what you wanted but enjoy the house shopping. It is fun to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

I'm glad you are standing up for what you think is fair and right concerning your divorce. Are you working on your marriage settlement paperwork?

I think that getting your own new place may be beneficial. You'll have your own house to create all new memories. Plus you can decorate it however you want!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I don't know. It may end up being exciting but now it's drudgery. Something that I haven't chosen for myself. Or should I say another thing that I haven't chosen for myself? 

mls: You're right...I won't have the old memories. I will make it my own and even that is bittersweet. 

My h filed so his attorney does the paperwork and my attorney and I approve. We should approve since my H and I agreed to this outside of an office. However, the legal jargon and details are what matters to my attorney. On one of our discussion my attorney has a little issue regarding a bonus/taxes etc. It is difficult to understand as it's pretty unusual overall. I get it but getting my attorney to understand is difficult. I am going to ask if he wants my H to come to his office and explain. I'll make an appointment next week to meet him and go over the final paperwork.

Last night, when I spoke to my H I was tired. He was all excited business talk and I wasn't in the mood. I finally said "ok. Thanks. I'll talk to you later. Click." I'm usually not rude but I am so disappointed and tired.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW,

I feel you on the disappointment and being tired. Maybe that is how my w feels about me, although I've done what she asked of me. It was a gigantic move on her part, but I did it. That is her resentment and the trust issue.

Your H just seems blinded by some fantasy of being noble still. You weren't rude -- just letting him know you are tired of it all. 

Try to enjoy the house hunting. A new house will give you something else new in your life, like your job. You are moving forward and that is great.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

I like the term you used, CW. Disappointed. 

Yep, I'd say I'm disappointed too. 

I'm disappointed with my H and the decisions he has made.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Today, I got off work and called our daughter. She is supposedly getting a new drivers permit (she lost hers) with her dad. The line was too long so they were going to eat and invited me along.

I was going to say my typical "no thanks" but ended up going. First time we ate out together in 4 months. Uneventful. We had normal conversation and all. He did look me in the eyes for awhile at the table without talking. It was sort of a stare down. 

In the parking lot, he pulled me toward him for a hug. I kissed his cheek and said "thanks." My d and I ran to the car (it's cold). 

I feel for the guy. He's gonna miss a great girl.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Yup he is.. But, thats his problem. you can find a great guy now..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Ohhh CW ...I agree with LH today - out you go - maybe in the end that is how we will heal -


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

CW You sound like a great catch!! Just keep that in your mind, and yes go ahead and feel bad for him...but who did this to him? You? No...he did it to himself, and he could fix it but I guess he doesn't want to...who really knows with your H, he needs to find his way I guess. So continue to go out, find a wonderful little home that pretty soon will be bursting with all the new wonderful memories that you will put into it.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

CW, I feel for you. I am not a big fan of sympathy, but I am a real believer in empathy, and I'm pretty sure I know how you feel. You've said you have learned to "let go" and if true, that's fantastic. I envy you. I'm still scratching marital lottery tickets, and hoping against all hope, "I'll hit it big". However, the logical part of my mind knows this isn't going to happen.

I disagree with some of the above posters in that everything will be ok as soon as you find a great guy. In my opinion, it would be like telling a patient they'll feel great as soon as the "stump" hardens, and we can fit them for a prosthetic leg. Sure the prosthetic is functional, and a whole bunch better than nothing, but a part of the person always yearns for the original "leg". I wish you the best in whatever may come, and I thank you for your encouragement and wisdom. LIL


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

lil: OK. That was the funniest analogy that I've hear in along time! Stump vs. great guy...

Empathy is appreciated more than sympathy. Thank you! I don't feel sorry for myself. I feel for my H. 

I agree that finding another won't make me feel better or solve a thing. We had a pretty good run, my H and I, and I don't regret a thing. 

Letting go is a process LIL. I used to pray for my H to change his mind. I quit praying that prayer. I started directing my prayers for peace in my heart; for peace and direction for my H; softening his heart and putting obstacles in his path that would encourage him to question his decision. My prayers have been answered for myself. My H has had plenty of obstacles in his path. I noticed a softening as well. 

Damn that free will!


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

CW, I am somewhere between your first and second prayers. My marriage doesn't have to "end", I could continue in the garbage relationship I have now until the second coming. However, you are right it is "eating me up inside", and that alone mandates change if for no other reason than just health. 

Tonight is her 40th birthday, and she's going out with her friends to listen to a band. I'm wrapping things up at the clinic now and I'm taking 15 minutes to decompress before I go home to kid sit. 

I want that "peace" you speak of CW. Personally, I don't think I really want the marriage anymore, but it still hurts to let go because I still love who she "was". I hope that makes sense.

I really don't care to pray for obtacles in her path CW. I think I will try to take more of Moses' approach and pray for her "figurative" leprosy to be healed.

As for the goofy analogy, I was trying to illustrate that for me this has felt like I've lost a piece of my body; thus the amputation reference. So personally, when people tell me to just "hook up" or "trade up", it's sort of fallen on deaf ears. I feel like they are trying to tell me it's a "good thing" to replace my original leg with a prosthetic one. Typically, not ones best move, unless of course the original is damaged beyond repair or diseased. Hmm, I guess it kind of is, but I'm still not looking forward to the procedure. LIL


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LIL: You make me laugh...I did "get it" on the analogy!

Yep...I yearn for what I had in the past. I love him for how he treated me and I regret that I hadn't appreciated him more. Although, I did a pretty good job of it. Somewhere, I need to take responsibility for my part in the marriage demise. 

The "trade up" isn't my style morally or personality wise. I'm skeptical in many ways. I foresee that might be a deterrent to me dating. I'm not an open book..."free and wild." I don't let my emotions get the best of me. 

I look at folks that break up and move on sooooo quickly. Sometimes within weeks. I need to cross the "dating" bridge when it comes. I guess, what I am saying, is that I have fears.

I went out last night with a girlfriend. We had sushi and a few drinks, then back to my place. Throughout my marriage, I had friends, but never sought out a close relationship with one. I neglected that side for a few decades. I wasn't one to have girls night out etc. I really focused on my schooling, family, etc. Maybe it would have been a good idea? 

Growing up, I was always well liked-popular. However, I only wanted a few friends close to me. I guess I am kind of like that today. I can be comfortable in a crowd and have fun but I prefer a handful of true, close, friends. 

Today, I go house hunting. I have 7 houses to tour. It's a beautiful day outside.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Ahh the texas weather in winter...I miss that. Did I tell you I used to go to Corpus with some friends in the miltary a lot and then I used to go with my H quite a few times. I went to South Padre too.

Glad its nice there...East Coast winters are completely different...been quite a while since I've been in one!

Have fun Corpus. Give the house hunting a chance. I know this is a completely different path from one that you ever thought you would be on, but maybe this path will turn out just fine.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

No Ash...I didn't know you made it THAT far down the coast! Too bad, I didn't "know" you then. 

I know about the East Coast as well. I lived in GA, SC, CT, and NY. My favorite was CT. It was a perfect time in my life.

I did look at several places. The market is a bit better than a few months ago, when I looked last. I found one that may be on my short list. Location is important to me. 

Next weekend I can't look as I'll be going on a girls weekend out of town. My realtor said she'd call me cell with any new houses that were in my range.

My D is with me tonight even though it's my H's weekend. She is over for a few hours downloading some songs to her ipod. I'll bring her back to my H's in a few hours. He is at a birthday party for his best friend. It's nice that we are so flexible with each other.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, where in SC were you? You got to love the Pamletto state. Hilton Head, Charleston, Kiawah. Some beautiful places there. 

But then you live in a cool place. What is this bridge? We have a date already planned, just can't say when, where or anything else. 

Hey don't worry about that dating crap. I'm like you -- a few close friends not just with anyone. I've always been that way. 

CW -- you are a friend to me. And others here. So anytime, anywhere you need, I'm there. Keep moving, keep strong.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FW: I lived in Aiken, SC and Graniteville, SC. Both are inland. We lived there for about 3 years or so and had a great time. 

I live on an island with a causeway and bridge to the mainland. I'd like to live closer to the bridge (in a subdivision) as it cuts down my commute and there is a few more things to ride my bike or walk to as well. Just a preference with the location.

It's wonderful how supportive you are FA and everyone else on this board! It's been a great way to vent and/or journal my life. I'm thankful!


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

This "place" definitely came to me when I needed it the most...


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW -The friendship one is difficult - my H criticised me before he left saying that he was always disapointed that I didn't keep up with all my friends when we got together. Now that we are alone we look back and think "could I have been another person - one who was catching up with friends all the time?"

I believe however that friends true friends are as hard to find and sometimes to keep as partners - and at different times of your life you have more opportunity to connect with people...

Through this process I have lost a couple of people who I had thought were friends and I have connected with others. 

I have never wanted a group of friends - have never expected that -
I feel honoured that I have connected with you guys however - life is full of surprises of lovely things that we can't see coming...


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Ash22 said:


> This "place" definitely came to me when I needed it the most...


Same here Ash. I was suicidal and through a series of searches I stumbled upon this site. What a blessing! You guys are my support system. My other "friends" and J's family have abandoned me. I'm so I can rely on you guys to understand and support.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

knortoh said:


> CW -The friendship one is difficult - my H criticised me before he left saying that he was always disapointed that I didn't keep up with all my friends when we got together. Now that we are alone we look back and think "could I have been another person - one who was catching up with friends all the time?"


K, my H said the same thing to me before he left. He told me I would never be happy or have a lot of friends wherever I end up. Isn't that nice?

Funny thing is that I've been able to reach out to several close and old friends during this process. I've found I have more friends that I actually realized.

However, I've lost a few friends that we were friends with as a couple.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

they weren't really friends were they? that's how I see it - anyway you need space for all the new friends in your life - like us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I think besides my marriage breaking up there has been more positive things that has knocked on my door BECAUSE of my broken marriage. 

I've done things, made new friends, rekindled old high school friends, began a new career, and learned that I can be myself and deserve love. 

Focus on those positive guys! The more we focus on our H's or W's, the more power we give them.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Totally agree CW!

I'm actually happier now with out my x. Sure I'm sad. But I'm no longer alone on the weekends like I used to be. 

I'm seeing my parents, brother, sister-in-law, grandpa and friends way more often. My social calendar is actually quite full. 

I have a job that I absolutely love! 

Things could be way worse.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Aiken is pretty cool. My brother's first wife worked at the Savannah Nuc facility there. Ever go the big steeplechase they have? I"ve never been, but it gets bigger and bigger every year. Not too far from Augusta either.

Well we need to help each other. It is great to have this resource. I've also been on another board recently the Divorce Busting board and it is good as well, but a little less sugar coated at times. Also really helps with specifics for people in the various situations that arise during the course of these crisis.

And you know you have the inner strength CW to do it.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I loved Aiken...was there when my son turned 2. My H was a subcontractor with the Savannah Riversite Facility as well. They were a big employer. Horses were big there. We went to a race but was quite busy and poor at the time. 

I've been to the divorce busting website as well. Lots of good information. It's a bit more specific.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

CW,
It is great you are looking to be closer to a place you can bike/walk to more places from. I find that being outside walking/biking is a major spirit lifter for me. Being in a place where you can do that instead of driving makes a big difference. 

I have these totally geeky metal baskets on back my bike, sometimes I go grocery shopping with my bike though and the baskets each hold 2 gallons of milk/juice with room to spare.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I love it MEM! A metal basket isn't geeky, it's chic!

Where I live there are only convenience stores within biking range. I haven't rode mine as it's dark by the time I get home.

It's good to get outside alright or at least exercise.

My friend, H, is a personal trainer. He got me to the gym on Sunday and we focused (this session) only on the upper body. We laughed alot as he thinks I am a comedy act sometimes. Today (2nd day) I am a little sore. We are going to meet and he'll run me through a different routine. 

As I was getting ready, this morning, in an empty house it was running through my head how I have to get used to this. After almost 5 months, I am still trying to wrap my head around my life.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

It will take awhile CW, but every so often look back and you will be shocked by how far you have come. Every day you accomplish a little bit more.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Tonight, per a phone call with my H, I called him a "selfish little man." He was shocked and said "what?" I said "you heard me. You are a selfish little man. I don't expect you to stand up for yourself. I don't expect for you to say anything back to me. You will avoid conflict" He basically ended with a "ok." 

Isn't that pitiful? I felt guilty as if I kicked a puppy. 

I also told him that I was tired of this nice-nice divorce talk. That was before the "selfish little man" thing!


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW I know our situations aren't funny but I love how you call him a selfish little man - in my mind I see a 'little' man - and I also love that he said what?????
I so feel like telling my H to F*** off at the moment - but hey he already has!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You know what K...it wasn't like I was brewing with anger. I kind f vomited out of my mouth. It was like I was possessed!

I told my friends that I felt guilty, like I kicked a puppy. 

I am not the kind of person that puts a person "down" to make myself feel better. It's how I felt and I feel. I pray that I don't do this anymore as it's not constructive. Afterall, he is divorcing me and I don't want to stir the pot. My D doesn't need any drama from her parents.

I have to do my venting on this board and with friends. 

I pray him, myself, and all of you in our cyberworld that we do the best by our families.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You know what K...it wasn't like I was brewing with anger. I kind f vomited out of my mouth. It was like I was possessed!

I told my friends that I felt guilty, like I kicked a puppy. 

I am not the kind of person that puts a person "down" to make myself feel better. It's how I felt and I feel. I pray that I don't do this anymore as it's not constructive. Afterall, he is divorcing me and I don't want to stir the pot. My D doesn't need any drama from her parents.

I have to do my venting on this board and with friends. 

I pray for him, myself, and all of you in our cyberworld that we do the best by our families.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> Tonight, per a phone call with my H, I called him a "selfish little man." He was shocked and said "what?" I said "you heard me. You are a selfish little man. I don't expect you to stand up for yourself. I don't expect for you to say anything back to me. You will avoid conflict" He basically ended with a "ok."
> 
> Isn't that pitiful? I felt guilty as if I kicked a puppy.
> 
> I also told him that I was tired of this nice-nice divorce talk. That was before the "selfish little man" thing!


HA! CW, are we twins? I said the exactly same words to J, not long ago!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Wren: Maybe that's were I got it! haha

I realized via counseling that I was asking for a fight. I wanted him to stand up for himself to let it out. Instead, my puppy rolled over and exposed his belly.

I lost a little respect for him last night.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I believe that is what my w wanted as well. She lost respect for me now. What is seems to come down to is for everyone to set their boundaries about things, but let those boundaries be none to each other. If you do x, that bothers me and I will do y. No unknowns, etc. That keeps each respectful of the other.

Where the heck was that manual?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

In my marriage, I really never had to really think about my life. I did what was right. I was open, honest, and loyal. I assumed my husband was the same. He WAS honest but not in the way that I assumed. 

It's about expressing yourself in a healthy appropriate manner. Not about arguments or being ugly or right or wrong. It's about accepting differences and coming to a mutual agreement. My H never learned to negotiate I guess. 

Don't get me wrong FA. I totally respect my H in other ways. He's a good man. I'm able to see that this is his flaw. It's ok that he can't express himself well. I feel for a man that only thinks there is sunshine on the other side. That his solution is to run. How far can you run to escape yourself?


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

You can't. You can only run so far to discover that running doesn't help, and then you have to turn around and look at the path of destruction that you caused or ignored. I think a lot of our spouses (and us as well) have done that at some time in our relationships.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

cw- unfortunately most men are like that cause as I said before it's looks like a sign of weakness if you do show more emotions.. I hear it in the talks here. A women wants a man that is strong and stands up for himeself. The alpha male. Yet the part your talking about isn't that. Very hard to have both. From what I have seen in my own marriage it is hard to make the switch without the bad side effects... If I am being loving to my wife I am a sort of sap. If I am being dominate I tend not to be loving. Really odd...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I don't need alot of emotional outbursts. What I want is someone that can express himself in an authentic way. 

From my H, I have NEVER heard...."I am upset with..." or "I wish this could be different..." or "I want...." or "What about..." or "I am dissappointed.."


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## lost1234 (Aug 24, 2009)

c,

I sort of feel that with mine. in the beginning we shared our thought, feelings, wants and disappointments.

now it seems all he is giving me are emotional outbursts. no constructive conversation about anything.

that is a BIG problem for us...

just thought id share

it makes all the difference in the world to be able to communicate in a healthy way


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

This still falls in line with men not expressing their feelings in the relationship. We take things "as is" and not work on the issues. Again to seem weak.. I know i did that with my wife for many years. Ignored my feelings and what wasn't working and just accepted what is.. Then made it work around that. Now that I know what can be better I work harder at that. It takes 2 though. 1 person can not carry on a relationship forever.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

authentic - that's the word

our guys can't do that CW can they?
identify what they need/want and say it and then talk about - especially if they think it may lead to conflict.
finally whatever they need to say becomes so big that when they say it it means "out"....
and now my H (and your H) want a nice 'no conflict' friends relationship - because we just get on so well....

I had to see my H at my son's graduation the other day and I was crying and so didn't want to talk and he kept on trying to make a point by saying " Hi K " and doing it again when I didn't reply (because I was emotional)...my friend S was with me - and it was all for her benefit - he looks so reasonable and grown up - I am the blubbering mess because I can no longer share these intense parenting moments with him....
it is all so inauthentic - still


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I told my counselor, last night, that I couldn't understand what he was accomplishing by leaving. He left because he thinks his life will be better. So far, I don't see it. He's alone 1/2 of the time. Doesn't care for his firm where he works anymore (but is stuck there by contract); still biking as before; no more new friends or new hobbies. 

He seems stagnate. I am, by far, moving ahead of him and feel that I will at a faster pace. The gap is getting larger by the week. He left for a happier life. I feel like I've gain more than he.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW I can relate to what you are saying, 
I think my H will also move on more slowly than me in some respects....many probably - like you I have had to re-design my life - re-nogotiate my work, reach out to new friends, I swim more than ever, go to the gym....I am having to think about who I am as a parent and as an individual more than ever. Nothing feels easy and I don't enjoy the pain I have - but maybe I am also gaining ...it is worth thinking about.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

There is growth through pain. Our H's aren't willing to fully feel the emotional ramifications of their choices, so how can they grow at our pace? Sorry if that sounds arrogant. But when the the heart breaks...it opens. Breaks open...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Yes, Wren that is true. For my H, he had kept himself busy. Making sure he was training (bike) or working (home and office). Anything to keep his mind off of things. Before he left, he was constantly thinking. Even during intimate moments, he was thinking and could not perform. When I asked what he was thinking about, it was bike training and work! He didn't want to feel.

The TRUE feelings were disguised as pain and anger. Sure he had a bit of pain and anger, but that wasn't all. He couldn't express anything else. 

My "selfish little man" couldn't tell me anything about his wants/needs/unhappiness. He stuffed until he couldn't stuff anymore.

I still love him.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Our H's had it, in their mind, that they wanted to leave. It wasn't a shock to them. They thought about, weighed their choices, discussed it among themselves/counselors/friends and acted. 

We were blindsided. We had to scramble to catch up. We had no plans of escape. We were left holding onto a hope that may never appear. At times, we may have appeared pitiful to our H's...

I don't feel pitiful anymore. I don't feel like a person lost. I don't feel like a wife left holding the bag. 

I feel like he's pitiful, lost, and holding onto to a fantasy.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

I'd dig a little deeper CW. You sound like an extraordinarily intuitive woman, so you realize your husband basically committed the equivalent of financial and social sepuka to leave your union. Why?

The grass is greener is a bumper sticker and not a reason my dear. Why? He is obviously unhappy? Why? By no means am I suggesting you're to blame, and by no means am I even saying that you have the means to "fix" this for him. I have observed enough of life to realize that people sometimes do the oddest of things for no apparent reason to them or others. However, it always leaves the survivors standing in the rubble and asking the same question...why? 

Awhile back you suggested that I strive to find "my peace". Great advice CW, but I'm still hung up on the speed bump of "why". How did you get over it CW without ripping out the oil pan of your soul? Get back to me on this one, I'd love to know. LIL


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

I still love J, too. And I do think I'm growing through the pain while J is stuck. Then again, I have no idea what his life is these days. I'm trying to stick with the NC as much as possible for my sanity. I've given up on him changing his mind.

I do wish I could to your point of not feeling lost and left holding the bag.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

*My "selfish little man" couldn't tell me anything about his wants/needs/unhappiness. He stuffed until he couldn't stuff anymore.*

Can we just call him a Umpa-Lumpa??
:rofl:


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH: The Umpa-Lumpa's couldn't even help!! 

LIL: Why? That's the million dollar question. I've searched for answers. Practically begged for him to discuss our relationship. He JUST CAN'T. Why can't he? He's scared; guilty; and wants to avoid conflict. He's unhappy but his primary focus is on our relationship. He's looking for a cure to his unhappiness but is either unskilled or afraid of looking inward. 

When I quit trying to figure out why? When I quit trying to find logic in what he was doing is when I finally gave up the fight. 

It's not my problem anymore. If he's unwilling or unable to do anything about his unhappiness but dump his wife and split his family, then it will be his problem. I don't have guilt.

That is where I found my peace. I gave up and gave it to GOD.

LIL: Your peace will come but right now you are still living with the enemy. Although, she's not the enemy but she's a constant reminder of your relationship difficulties. Peace comes in steps.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

LIL - peace is a long time coming....CW and I have talked about this a fair bit - but we have both independently and through discussion come to the conclusion that asking _why_ gets us nowhere...and delivers no peace. 

In fact if I listen to my H's 'reasons' I am set on the path of no peace at all ....had to stop asking him...

I did /have spent a long time asking myself stuff tho...and that was useful - I worked out that I felt ok about whO iwas in the relationship - i wasn't driving when my relationshio ran into the ditch - 

But just lately I have also realised our relationship isn't over - won't be till I am gone...

This doesn't mean that I am hoping for a resumption of what we had or that I even think anything like that is possible - but what I do mean is that I have realised I am part of his life whether he likes it or not.....and he is part of mine....

haven't got anything to add to that yet...and not sure whether this is helpful to the quest for peace....

keep on going


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

knortoh said:


> *In fact if I listen to my H's 'reasons' I am set on the path of no peace at all ....had to stop asking him...*
> 
> Very well said K. I agree with that. I know for the longest time I wanted answers, closure, but I wasn't getting it, and never will. So While I was hung up on waiting for answers I could have started the process of just moving on, like I am now.
> 
> ...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Yes. I have a list of my answers as to why. The problem is...that they are MY answers not his. 

I had a girls weekend. Just rolled into town and checking mail. Had a good time yesterday. Woke up this morning with sadness. I was kind of melancholy. On my way home, about 4 hours away, I was in a fast food restaurant bathroom stall. I started to cry (no loud). I felt alone in the world..sad to be on the road by myself. What a weird place to break down. It was a short break down but nontheless out of the blue. Funny how it hits. 

Will I ever be the same? Will I be better? Those are my questions for now. I don't expect an answer now. Just more of a thought. 

My friend and I spend time analyzing the "why" of my H's departure. She knows him well. She is dumbfounded. We both agree that maybe we'll know much later.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

CW, I appreciate the honesty of your posts. I thought I was the only one that did that. I haven't cried in a bathroom stall yet, but I'll be driving and a song will come on that has a memory of my wife attached to it, and I'll tear up. 

Why CW can't both parties come back to a relationship with the same energy they had in the beginning; if it is so obvious that feelings still exist for one another? God, pride is such a road block to happiness; please remove it from our hearts.

*Will I ever be the same? Will I be better? Those are my questions for now. I don't expect an answer now. Just more of a thought. *

The more I read of your posts, the more convinced I am that we are about at the same place on this road to? You still sound as if you are very much in love with your husband. I can see the hurt, and feel the pain, but there is still something substantial there in your heart for him. It's just a thought, but maybe the reason we're having such a tough time with this is it's difficult to "bury" the living.

I'll be quiet for now. I've intruded enough. I really do wish you the best CW, but I can't help getting over the feeling that that's reconciling with your spouse. LIL


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

I've been having a lot of those moments lately, CW. I went over to my parents' house to see my brothers, nieces and ended up crying in the bathroom. Everyone was buzzing about Christmas and I was alone.

We are going to get through this. We are feeling, which really is a gift.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Those emotions are needed CW, I'm sure you know that just wanted to remind you! Sometimes a good cry is needed to let some emotions out and get your mindset back on track.

But don't let that deter you. I know sometimes the days that I feel upset or the days that I'm tempted to go on and check his myspace that I feel that I have taken a step backwards. But I haven't, in reality it shows that I am moving forward. Bc those times that I get upset I dwell on it for a few moments then let it go. Those times that I'm tempted to check his myspace I ask myself what it would accomplish (nothing) and I simply get up and walk away from the computer. 

You are still moving forward CW!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

CW- The more you worry about "why" the more confused you will get. Just accept he has no clue what he is ding and is not of sane mind.. That you are moving on and in a month or so you will be free to meet a younger guy who WANTS to show you love..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I've quit wondering why LH. It's trying to apply logic to the illogical. 

I feel good today. He called today frustrated with daughter and his attorney. Oh well. You can't run from all of your problems right?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

no CW you can't and it is very tiring trying. Every single time I drop my kids off to my H - he is asleep!!!!!!!!!! why so tired???????????
I know it doesn't mean anything - I just think how much can one person sleep?


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Calling you with constant frustration and sleeping a lot = running like the wind, avoidance, and hoping someone else will do the caretaking.
Puh!


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Hmmm, somedays I think I could sleep all day! But maybe its because my daughter is not quite sleeping through the night (almost thou).

But no you can't run from your problems.

Well, actually let me take that back. You can. But it just makes it worse in the long run. Avoidance never solves anything.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

It is just procrastination - love that saying the only way to solve a problem is to solve it


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

The sleeping is one of the signs of depression. I'm not sure of my H's pattern as of now. However, a month ago my H said he couldn't get out of bed until 1:30 PM. This has never occurred in our marriage. I can't remember the last time that he sleep til 9 am. I was shocked. 

They aren't doing well. I know my H is frustrated now. I ask him a question or he has a comment and I don't react much other than what is necessary. Today, we are changing our cell plans and figuring out how to drop him without charges. I'm not worried, it's a side effect of not dealing with life. 

He stopped by before his Christmas party to drop off some yarn for our D (knitting) and the garage door broke. I told him not to worry about it. He tried to fix it but couldn't. I am sure he'll be back this weekend to fix. 

It's a strange world where I ignore my husband and don't have many feelings toward him. I would have never thought. 

You can run but you can't hide.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Keep going strong CW. You are doing great. How was shopping? Do you knit or only B? 

So it is hide and seek time -- well at least its a game. Ha, ha. You can do this, we all can.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

My D and I went to the library (book) this summer to learn how to knit. We bought the yarn and needles and TRIED! We tried all day long...picking it up and putting it down. I gave up. She was diligent and tried off an on for a week. We couldn't follow the diagram!

Some girls on her tennis team began knitting and taught her the "easy" technique. Given the holidays and more free time she is knitting away. So far she has knitted a sweater for her guinea pig. Now she is working on a grey scarf. I am waiting to gain patience before I attempt again!

Shopping in the early AM. Just shopping for my daughter left. My list is very short this year. I didn't send out any cards this year for the first time. I'm VERY basic this year. 

I can't believe that I have 2.5 weeks until I am divorced.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW - wish I was there to show you guys how to knit - it is very therapeutic. Lots of fantastic knitting blogs as well - let me know if you get into it and I'll send you the addresses - 
I love knitting but no reason living in subtropics - 

My H has just gone quiet - no texts - no messages - no communication at all unless I instigate it - he's lying low - 

I am also having quiet XMAS I went to ikea today with a friend and bought all my kids presents there - 
they are having a homemaker XMAS - we are all enjoying redecorating the house on a budget....making it feel special 

I walked around ikea and it felt ok again - I loved choosing things and looking at everything - my girlfriend and I spent 5 hours there and didn't have one argument! 
what partner could offer me that experience??????


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

You have an ikea over there!!! That's amazing! I have more stupid questions for you K (and this questions will show my true age!!)

1) So its Christmas over there...but its warm...so what month is it over there? Ive never really figured this out...

2) Is it warm there year round

3) You live in Australia right? Do you have the australian accent? (well to me, to you I'm the one with the accent)

4) Are there really kangaroos everywhere? thats just what I've heard...

If these questions are stupid then somebody asked me to ask them...haha...I've just never really thought about it. 

Just like I assume everyone is close to my age I assume everyone lives right around me (I know its just one of my things)

And you knit K...Its wonderful that you have something theraputic like that to do...but I think I'm with CW, I might need more patience (a lot more patience) before I undertake knitting! My scarves I don't think would come out looking like scarves...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

5 hours in IKEA! Holy smokes K that was a shopping day for sure. haha.

My H picked up our daughter and stayed for an hour. He wanted to hang. At one point, he was saying how he needed to mail a Christmas card to a family member. I said "oh..I already mailed him one." He said "you don't have to try to one-up me?" He had this pissed off look.

I looked at him and said "what did you say?" He repeated "you don't have to one-up me?" He smiled. I asked him "exactly how it that one-upping you? Am I in a Christmas card competition without knowing it?" 

He looks like a wreck. I have a nice attitude but really don't care anymore about the "relationship." Good luck to him.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

I hope I can get to the point where I no longer care. I would love to be able to say, "I'm doing what I want to do and you can do whatever you want to do." 

Instead I continue to waste my brainpower on the situation.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Was he really mad that you sent a Christmas Card to a friend first? Or was he trying to joke with you?

This may be a case where this kinda startled him. Is sending cards out something you two have always done? Well, you sending one out by yourself shows him that you are moving forward...and its without him. 

Sometimes men, and women too, do things and make decisions but they don't even think of the consequences. And then when they start to see all that is going on around them as a result of their decision...it is shocking! I wish you the best CW, and again, I admire your strength.

What are you going to do for this Christmas CW?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Ash: He was upset, at first, that I told him that I sent the card to our son first. He felt that I was trying to outdo him.

I always sent out the cards. He never did. 

The only cards, this year, are for my son. I don't feel like spreading Merry Christmas Cheer.

I am working Christmas Eve til 5. Then, my D and I are going to church at 7. Then eat chili and tamales and open our gifts. Usually for years past, we hosted the family and had lots of food and fun. 

We will wake up and Santa will have came for my 15 year old! haha 
Her dad will pick her up around noon. They will go to his sisters for a late lunch with all of the family minus me. My mom and her husband will be going there. I won't until a few hours later to avoid my H. I don't want to be around him during this special time of year. It's the celebration of the birth of Jesus...not about making my H feel better that his whole family is OK. 

Maybe I am spiteful. OH well.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

cw- The one upping will be an issue for a while. It's especially foing to show when it comes to yuor kids. This is the part of divorce that will be ugly for years..

I love to hear how others spend x-mas eve. Everybody has their own traditions and it's neat. I love the Chili/Tamales.. It's a true sign of Texas..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Announcement: Last night I went out to dinner. Before I left, I took off my wedding ring. The only time my ring has been off in almost 25 years, is when I had it cleaned and/or resized. 

I have an indention in my finger. I don't know how long I will keep it off, but it's still off. Sad for me as it's the only thing that i am sentimental about besides kid stuff. 

I believe this will be a strong statement towards my husband. He will react when he notices. I will be flashing my hand so that he does.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Wow CW, you have just crossed the Rubicon. I know for me, the removal of my wedding ring was a tremendous statement to my wife, myself, and the world that I was removing myself from the marriage.

As an aside, I still have a "shiny" spot on my 4th where it was for 17+ years. I find that I still touch the place where my ring was with my thumb if I'm stressed. It's sort of a self comforting thing, like that Harlow monkey experiment I guess.

I was "called out" recently in our counseling/mediation by my wife for removing my wedding ring, until I pointed out the "timeline of actual events", and the fact that she had removed hers first. Trust me, whatever his feelings for you he'll notice and he'll hurt. Mine did. LIL


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW what I love about you is that you can recognise that you are sentimental about this and yet still do it. It is huge - I took mine off last year when my H left. It is nothing but a symbol - but aside from what it is symbolic of anything we wear on our body for so long becomes part of us....that is also why it is huge and you will find yourself adjusting for a long time. Adjustment disorder - that's the technical name for what we are all suffering from hey?
Thinking of you


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It is a grand statement to those that have worn the ring for the years of their marriage. For my H was diligent in wearing his unless surfing/biking/shooting. He always had it on before leaving work and would turn around, if he had forgotten it. He still has his on his finger.

Now our rings are symbolic of the beginning and the ending. The beginning was a great joy to me. I was so proud of my ring, when he gave it to me. It was the most expensive gift that I had ever received. It was a part of my dream. 

I have 2.5 weeks to go until our final divorce. How can I put it on now and return to the symbolism? I can't when my marriage is all but done and legally over. 

Today, I picked up our daughter. He was getting upset with the cell phone company over the phone. He tried to kiss our daughter and she was being goofy. He reached to hug me and kiss my cheek. He didn't have a chance to notice my finger. 

I went to church today and our pastor spoke of having faith and leaving our lives to God. How difficult that can be? Yes. I am not TRYING to control the situations that I cannot. Let it all be and let HIM take control.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I guess the rings mean more to some then others. I hardly wore my ring. Maybe I didn't take it serious enough or maybe I am not a jewelry guy.. I don't wear any but evidently wife for a long time didn't like I was not wearing it. I always had a problem when she wasn't. Maybe that’s hypocritical of me but she always wore hers unless we went through our separations..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I know LH...there are many like you. They never got used to wearing jewelry or had a job that it wasn't compatible with wearing.

For me and my H...it was powerful.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

My ring was never a symbol of my allegence.. I think a lot of women it is?? It means a lot more to you girls then us guys.. At least this is from me.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, it meant a lot to me. The only time in 7 years I took it off was if I was swinging a golf club and that was rare. I would rub it when I thought of my w and she wasn't there. It was tough to take it off.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

It was a strong move CW, and I'm sure it was very hard for you to do, just another testament to your strength. Let us know of his reaction when he sees its off. I'm sure their will be one.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm exhausted regarding how my life is turning out.

I came back from my meeting with the attorney. He is "suspicious" regarding the bonus money my H has....I believe my H. My attorney doesn't get it. So.....

I called my CPA/friend and will be meeting her tomorrow to get a final "vote" as to what is fair. I started crying with her. She understands as she divorced 6 years ago. She is so kind and compassionate. 

I let my H know what my attorney said and the note he is writing his attorney to explain things. I told my H how confusing it was to explain to my attorney. He agree that his attorney was confused as well. He wasn't upset (not that I would care).

When I first called he thought something was wrong (how I hesitated and my tone). He was concerned when I said I was ok. He seemed like my old H-so caring and kind to me. That made me sad as well.

I hate all of this.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Stay strong CW. I know you can do this.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Their compassion is sometimes worse than the other crap - we remember who they once were to us - I am hanging in there with you


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Yep, it really stinks when they do something that reminds us of the "old" person we used to know. It gives us false hope that that person is still somewhere within them and will return. 

Just think, 2 more weeks and then you are DONE!

As for the ring. I know how tough that one is. I still miss having mine on. However, I didn't like to look at it for the symbol that it once was. My ex wore his all the time too. But he was quick to remove it when things started to go downhill. I guess it didn't mean as much to him as I thought.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm not sure what anything, regarding our marriage, has meant to him.

The memories that we once shared have been tarnished by his "version" of the truth. 

The steadfast loyalty that we have both given to each other is no longer important as the promises of "forever" is broken. 

He is caring in his words but I question his motivation.

The old husband is what I miss. The new one has sorely disappointed his family.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

CW- If he fails to see his responsibility in the demise of your marriage how do you ever expect him to see the truth? 

My wife used to twist everything around to justify her actions. She tried hard to make me look horrible. All it ever did was bite her in the ass..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I no longer expect my husband to see anything. At least not while we are married.

I quit trying to apply logic to the illogical.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Keep going CW. You are right logic to emotion isn't worth trying.


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

I wore my ring all the time as well. It has meant alot to me and it was very hard to take it off. I constantly found myself turning an imaginary ring with my thumb. So I did get myself some stackable rings and I wear those on that finger. It felt so bare. I wear my original wedding band on my right hand now. No one ever asks so. I love seeing old pictures of my H with his wedding band on. He took his off 10 months before he even left.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Hey Believe - great to hear from you - how's it going?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Hi believe! Glad you are back...

That's a good idea about the right hand and the wedding ring...


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

Awww shucks guys  you missed me.
Things over here are same ol same ol. I am coming up to the big one year mark on New Years Eve. Ugh!
I do have a ? for you guys though. 
I am planning a get together for xmas eve like I do every year. I even invited my brother and sister in law. I did not officially invite my H. However it appears he is planning on coming over. He asked if he could bring a turkey or something. I said oh I didn't know what your plans were, I figured you would work late and then be too tired. Then he tells me that our D asked him to sleep over. 
What should I do? He will never know what he is missing if he is not missing out? He has been all flirty this week too. (playin me)


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Well by a year's time if he hasn't missed out not sure he will.. Yet it seems like he is trying to make a connection with you. What that is I don't know. You'll see eventually. \


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

That's half the problem, for the last year he is there all the time. we see more of him now than when he lived with us. Maybe because he doesn't want to go home. Which by the way is sleeping on someone's living room couch. He picks up the kids most weeknights and feeds them, bathes them and helps put them to sleep. Then he leaves to go to sleep. Grrrrrr! He was there for Thanksgiving too. but then when he left early my D was very sad.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Believe whatever happens enjoy your Christmas...........
we all deserve to


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Believe: Whatever you decide, at this point, isn't going to make THAT much of a difference (Christmas wise). Obviously, your D wants him to be a part.

After the holidays, I would have a serious heart to heart. Tell you H, how much you love him and how this hurts. I would then describe your boundaries. If he wants in, then he needs to fully work on the marriage and commit to staying together.

He's had enough time to "think about it" either he works on somethiing (himself/the marriage) or he stays away from you as much as possible. Putting your foot down, my give him a feeling that you aren't taking this in 2010. Either he is going to have a marriage or he's going to be a single dad sleeping on someone's couch. Let him figure it out. 

This conversation should be as kind and thoughful as possilbe. Firm is something you should get across to him. You mean business.

I say these things to force the issue. After reading these boards and my own life, I think at a point you have to force the issue for your sanity.

Good luck believe.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Interesting day. I went to work to a very small amount of coworkers. One of my coworkers, were talking about traditions. I had my first breakdown at work an hour before leaving. She cried with me! Bless her heart.

Then, my husband is driving down my street. We stop and he says "you look beautiful. You really do!" I said "thanks." Then he goes on to say how he had a candle that he left unattended today (accidently) and a door blew open upstairs while he was gone (cold front/windy). He came home to a smoke filled house and couldn't find the fire. He ended up with 8 firemen and a burnt piece of carpet. Lucky but his condo is smokey. He said, after the firemen left he cried and called his best bud. He woke him up and wasn't sympathetic (he laughed when he told this part).

He said he didnt want to go to his parents for Christmas eve (tonight). He said his mom was upset and he agreed to it 2 days ago. 

Then, we said "goodbye" as we were in the street parked during this conversation. A UPS truck was behind me. 

Then, I pull in my garage and he's pulled in the driveway (he turned around)

He said "anyway...that's what happened." I said "its ok...it could happen to anyone C." I've left candles on myself.

He hugged me (both arms) and kept hugging. He looks like poop.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, he is realizing what he is missing --- you. Maybe you will get a great Christmas gift, a new beginning. 

Merry Christmas.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

He's in pain and seeks my comfort. 

I am HIS best friend, no matter what he thinks. I am his pillar of strength. He doesn't have me anymore to turn to....whose fault is it? His.

Mixed signals all around this has been my relationship for 2009.

He misses me and doesn't know how to handle these things.

Divorce in less than 2 weeks and he misses me.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Thinking of you CW!! Merry Christmas and eat a tamale for me...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Hi guys! I just got a call from my brother in law that my h's dad is going to the hospital via ambulance (chest pains). My H was driving to the hill country (4 hours away) and is turning around.

I can't believe the how my H is being knocked around. He's has a condo fire Christmas Eve and now this. 

It's a nasty way to realize that you stick with the one's that care and love you. That you need people who love you. And life is too short to make your own problems. 

I see this all as a wake up call. This isn't his first one but it certainly is getting to be a crisis point for him.


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## lost1234 (Aug 24, 2009)

oh my C! i know those feeling all to well... good luck, i hope all is ok with him.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

He is fine. The tests said that he didn't have a heart attack....

My H looks sooooo tired with his eyes all red. He keeps looking at me when I am not looking at him. He so wants a connection-probably the friendship connection.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

glad he's ok CW 
sounds like he does want a connection - it's the connection of love and compassion that you have always given him - he calls it friendship now - whatever - it's all the same - connection is connection


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

By the way, WE are no longer wearing our wedding bands/rings.

It almost makes me choke up when I think of him not wearing his...it used to be important to him.

He's noticed but not said a word about my missing ring.

Today....I believe in miracles though. Maybe our divorce is around the corner but something will happen to wake him up, even after the divorce. I won't stand still. 

Boy are these few weeks going to suck.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

CW, I am so glad your FIL is ok! But I am sure your H is looking for connection. Through all those crises, he's always leaned on you. I keep thinking one day I'm going to read your thread and your H will have woken up and realized what a gem he has!

We're here for you in these next sucky weeks.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thank you Wren.

I am back to my constant thinking, even during my sleep. My thoughts of how my life has changed and will change. My thoughts of how I should react on our 25th anniversary. My thoughts on dating. My thoughts on him dating and preparing myself. My thoughts on our daughter and how she's having a rough time of it-finally (I never saw much of a reaction)....on and on and on. 

Ok...you get my drift. It's all thinking. I was hoping this overanalzying things was over but the holidays have turned it on once again. Now anniversary date, newyears, and divorce. 

Please excuse me as I ramble the next few weeks. 

This morning I had romantic ideas about meeting my H at the beach with a bottle of wine on our anniversary (no relationship talk). I feel sick. I'm brave enough to ask. He'd be NG enough to accept. However, it would most certainly be a crying scene by me and turn into a stupid mess. 

These are my thoughts. Still hanging on when there is plenty left but he just doesn't "get it."


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

CW- Your doing well.. Your future ahs to be brighter then now right?? What are you going to end up doing on New Years?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH: For New Years I'll probably get drunk!

OK. I was kidding. New Years hasn't been a favorite of mine anyway. I am not sentimental about it and it's another day. 

The good new is I have the day off...

Maybe I'll have some friends over and have a hot tub party. Something new and different.


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## lost1234 (Aug 24, 2009)

im pleased to hear your fil is ok

like the idea of the bottle of wine and the beach too...

i would think something like that too...wouldnt be brave enough to ask. lol

we know our h's are so much alike! scary! 

was a long holiday for me ...hanging in there now.

CW 

you were one of the first people to respond to me way back when...lets hope for a better 2010!!! 

for EVERYBODY, no one deserves this stuff we are told is part of life! it stinks!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Lost you are saying it would be a good idea? 

What do the others think about the wine and the beach?


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I think its time for........an honest conversation! I always say that! Ask yourself C why you would be doing this. Would it be simply because its your 25 anniversery and thats a hell of an accomplishment? Or would it be one last effort to rekindle something? I think it is a good idea CW only bc I hold a hope for the both of you, but I also don't want you to be hurt. Just worried about you thats all.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Keep the opinions coming.....


Ash: It would be both-the accomplishment and the hope. However, it wouldn't be HIS idea and that is a problem I think. Because I sincerly feel that ANY spouse that leaves, it must be there idea to come back for the right reasons.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I like the idea of a hot tub party. Hey wait that was one of my fantasies of mine. Something about a whole bunch of women.. Oh wait I'm married..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

LH I think CW was baiting you ! 
All men like the idea of a hot tub party - whatever that is!


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> What do the others think about the wine and the beach?


Proceed cautiously. If you and H are not on the same page with the same mindframe, this could be very uncomfortable and result in confused feelings. It's all about emotional honesty. Is he ready and capable at this time? [no answer needed]


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

I agree with D8zed. 

If you want to have a get together with your ex, you need to realize that he may not give you the reaction you are looking for. Meaning that he may come to your beach party, act weird, get drunk, and then start talking about how great it will be to date again once your divorce is finalized.

Not trying to shock you or be mean here. At this point, I think it's safe to say you don't know how he'll react. 

You may be looking for an evening where you'll reflect on your 25 years of marriage and pledge to continue your friendship. 

If you're okay with this, proceed. If not, reconsider.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thank you guys! I think I was getting melancholy over the weekend-holiday-blues. I am starting to think clearly today.

My reasons not to do it:

1. I know it's not in my best interest. 
2. First, he may not accept my offer (painful). 
3. If he does because of his NG tendencies-he'll play it awkward. 
4. My expectations are hopeful and not just "looking back."
5. It's my idea and I don't want to be the chasee anymore.
6. Am I stupid? Our divorce is a week away.
7. The beach is cold and another front is here tomorrow.
8. I'll make a fool out of myself.

Reasons to do it:
1. I love him and want to express my appreciation.
2. I am hopeful that he expresses some hope for us.
3. ..............................


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## lost1234 (Aug 24, 2009)

CW,

I absolutely LOVE the idea!

I would hesitate in fear of being let down...

has he mentioned anything at all??

i am learning to tread ever so lightly...maybe something simple and see what happens from there?

a phone call to see what he is up to? kind of last minute...see if it leads anywhere??

also a GREAT BIG NO AND DOUBLE NO!!! you are not stupid! you are human and have real feelings!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

He will not mention a thing. If he does it will surprise me.

It's a moment that we should be proud but at the moment I am not. I feel like it's a farce. I don't look forward to tomorrow.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Because of J's reaction to our anniversary, missing me during the holidays, and wanting to see me again today, I made a fool of myself and asked him to be my NYE date. I said, I want to kiss you at the stroke of midnight and love you through 2010.

He cried and said, "I need to be alone. I need to prove that I can make it alone."

Be glad you didn't make a fool of yourself like I did, CW. I took his need for comfort as coming around and feeling something for me.

He left crying. I didn't cry. I'm fool. If anyone deserves to cry, it sure as hell isn't him. "I'm afraid I made the wrong decision," he says. 

I am such a damned fool. CW, you are smarter and stronger than I am. And you will be just fine.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Wren: I don't know about being smarter. You see deep inside us we have this hope. We see them around us seeking comfort and really loving us but not fully reaching out. It feeds our hope.

You did what was natural. I don't want to be emotionally beaten anymore. 

I can't tell you what I will do today as sometimes I can't hold things in any longer.


At least I didn't wake up crying.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Thinking of you CW


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## lost1234 (Aug 24, 2009)

CW,

You will do whatever you feel you need to...

no matter what happens, you know how you feel and what you truly want...its them that just dont get it!

im like wren...dont want to spend NYE alone but im gonna act as if its another day...

good luck today! im thinking of you!


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

How do we stop being emotional masochists in the name of hope and love?


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Good Luck CW. Whatever you decide don't beat yourself up about it, we're here for you.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I've decided to do nothing. I won't chase a man that no longer wants to be my husband. Hell! I already tried that...why beat my head against the wall.

He's is a coward, selfish, superficial, guilt-ridden, man who doesn't know what he wants. He behaves as if he want me to be his best friend yet denies that we were ever best friends! What an act! What a farce!

He can't convince me of anything. Mark my words. He will want me back, as soon as he catches wind that I am dating. 

25 years today! He hasn't contacted me and I fully expect him to ignore the fact that I was ever important to him. What a fool.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Yes he's is a fool to have somebody care for him as much as you have. Toast in the new year with a new life. You'll make somebody really happy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lost1234 (Aug 24, 2009)

thinking of you Cw!!


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

He is a fool.
Thinking of you and sending you lots of virtual hugs, CW.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Thinking of you CW. 

You are so right about trying to be friends with someone who denies every being friends with you. 

You deserve so much more. Your are such a caring and thoughtful person. He doesn't know what he's missing.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

it is the CW we know and love at her best....roll on 2010


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I went unplugged for a few days. Didn't want to miss any time with my son. Glad your FIL is okay. Also glad you didn't do anything on your Anniversary -- I believe you are right that if you offerred he would have accepted and then you wouldn't have known whether it was genuine on his part. If he had proposed something you would have known.

You aren't stupid -- we all have these feelings. I know they came up in me this weekend. I just tried to keep a happy face and not let it bother me. 

By the way -- which way to the hot tub?


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

Wow 25 years. That must be so difficult CW. My thoughts and well wishes go out to you. I hope you found a way to get through the day. We all deserve so much more. I am so pissed at myself right now for holding on to hope for an entire year! Well on New Year's Eve it will make a whole year since he walked out of the house. I don't know what to do that night. I have been a basket case all week just thinking about it. We are only human and hope is only natural when it involves the heart. I will be thinking about each and everyone of you guys at midnight! We will get through it and 2010 is going to be great. Let's all toast to saying good bye to this awful year and good riddance.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thank you for all of your kind words to get my over the hump of my anniversary. 

Next hump-one week until the divorce. 

I noticed on the cell phone that he took yesterday off. (he calls into work during the day). It must have effected him. 

I don't know. In some ways, I think he doesn't get effected. Although I know he's sensitive. Then, in other ways I think he's greatly effected..more than I. 

I guess this back of forth stems from the fact that he doesn't acknowledge his pain to me....or anything else.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW 
oh - how sad 
and noticing that is so sad as well..........
I think you know him and I think you are correct - in ways he does not yet understand he is being effected -
you are left knowing stuff about him that only you know - 
that only you could share with him 
and that he doesn't want to share with you -
insight/knowledge can be painful CW
just don't get sad on his behalf....


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## lost1234 (Aug 24, 2009)

CW,

I cant express it ant better than K!

hugs!


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Any plans or rituals for NYE or New Years Day, CW?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

No...I never was a big NEW Year's eve person. 

I am going to eat sushi with a friend, my daughter and her friend.

Then, my girlfriend and I are going "somewhere." We haven't made up our mind and are floating ideas.

New Years Day=another day. 

How about you Wren?


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

My wife went to bed around 10:30. Didn't even make it to midnight. I made it and rang it in by myself..Yeah me.. I might be back with my wife but that doesn't mean things are great.. Lots of times I feel like I was minus the fear of her leaving. At least I have my sanity at this point.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH: That the marriage couple "dance." This is how we treating New Years for the most part. It wasn't as exciting with kids and all. 

I ended up having a great time. Didn't get home until 2 am. I real record for me. My D was spending the night at her friends and I took advantage. Let's just say..my friend and I had a good time. Lot's lots of laughs!


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yipee for you CW! Perhaps 2010 will be the year of laughter for you


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Interesting week overall. I haven't heard a peep or seen from my H since Saturday night, when his dad went to the emergency room. 

No calls about "arrangements" for kids...nothing. This is the first time that he hasn't texted/emailed/called/shown up for this period of time. It has been 6 days. Hmmmm. Out of curiosity I am wondering why? It was our anniversary week, then New Years now. 

He is supposed to be picking up our D at some point, but no contact as of now. 

Part of me wants him to be in emotional pain. Another wants him to be OK. 

Another tidbit: My coworker whose whose husband walked away after 6 years had an interesting happening. He was a younger version of my H. A NG...didn't want to rock the boat. Did express his unhappiness. They separated last Nov. 08. Divorced May 09. She has been dating others. Now, he's rearing his head. Told a ex-boyfriend of hers (they work together) that he "made a mistake. Wants her back. Would like to ask her to dinner." 

She said to the ex-boyfriend and his message..."ah..no thanks. Is this junior high and he couldn't say it to ME. Plus, he's not my type of guy!"

I found this funny and sad at the same time. He tossed his marriage and walked away because he was unhappy. Figured out, too late, it wasn't her.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes that happens a lot I imagine CW. I expect that in your case. I don't in mine at all.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I think it's better to expect nothing and be surprised!


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

I fully expect my H to realise but not for 20 years ! 
I am not kidding - he is very slow -
never mind I am moving through...............on/out/ wherever.........life is full of possibility and change for us all and none of us can see into the future


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Something is up with my H. After months of texts about kids/mutual business and me trying to do NC. Then, him filing for divorce and I didn't worry about NC. 

He's changed this week! Like I said before, no contact by him since Sat night. Today, I had to tell D to call him to figure out when he was picking her up. He said 5 minutes. It ended up being 45 minutes. 

I was backing out of the garage and he was parked waiting for her with his door open. I waved. He waved. He usually comes up to the front door. He didn't get out of car to talk. Hmmm.

I'm thinking this has been a bad week for him. For him to not contact our D much is VERY STRANGE.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

a shift CW - he can't face you?
what are you thinking?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, he is realizing his loss at this time in my opinion. The crises with is dad, the holidays etc is like LH has said -- he realizes who the rock is in the relationship and that is you.

The question really is, is that what you want. To be the rock. Shouldn't he be the rock for you?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

well said FA


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I never quite thought of myself as the "rock." But when I read it, it rang true. I am the rock! It's a simple word but means much.

I was the rock of this relationship. He's a good man and smart financially. He still deferred to me. It wasn't like I wanted that responsibility or asked for it. It was something that happened over time. As life became more complicated, I made important decisions. He always asked for my opinions. I gave them not because I thought I had the answers. As I told him, it was because he asked!

I don't want to always be the rock in a relationship. I want someone to ask for my opinion, if needed/wanted, and make their own. If they disagree, it's ok, by me. I don't have to be right. I just have to be respected.

I wonder if he realized his loss. He's been preaching this divorce stuff for months now! Maybe you are right guys, he's feeling it all. 

Why can't he face me? He's like a puppy that's messed on the floor. He can't bare to look at me because he's done something wrong. That's how I feel.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW - my H is the same - the guilty little boy is one of his faces that I see, the other is petulant angry teenager - that's all I get from him -


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You too K! This look is strangely different-sad guilty puppy.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I've been reading a lot about "dominant men". It isn't the caricature you first read -- no not sado masichism or anyting like that. Just that being a man. Making your position clear to your wife and asking her opinion. Making decisions. Showing her you will protect her and keep her secure. While in my depression and withdrawal I was obviously not doing that at all. I was the anti-man. But it started before that -- which contributed to my depression and resentment of her. I was appeasing her because I thought that was what a good H would do -- that is the hypocrisy of the feminist movement (sorry girls). That is good in business, politics and friend relationships, but not in H and W relationships.

That is why he can't face you, he is the NG and doesn't know how to assert himself anymore. Somehow he lost being the man, the man you fell in love with. You grew -- he stayed and became less. Just my opinion. Hey jump on messenger.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yes CW - jump on! 
I agree FA - completely - 
but it is not the fault of the feminist movement - but let's save that discussion for CW's hottub party~!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> Interesting week overall. I haven't heard a peep or seen from my H since Saturday night, when his dad went to the emergency room.
> 
> No calls about "arrangements" for kids...nothing. This is the first time that he hasn't texted/emailed/called/shown up for this period of time. It has been 6 days. Hmmmm. Out of curiosity I am wondering why? It was our anniversary week, then New Years now.
> 
> ...


CW- This is why I tell everybody who's spouse has walked away they will have their shot one day. It might be to late for you but your turn will come.


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## lost1234 (Aug 24, 2009)

oh my,

cw, i agree with everyone for many different reasons...

my advice...take it slow and really think about it all.

if the chance is there, even with you remaining the rock, you had a good thing up until the point of all of this childish selfish uncalled for behavior...

maybe i am too much of an optimist...lol

i wouldnt close all doors...there is alot of room here to grow!


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

CW...

Consider a different perspective - your H is working on himself. Part of that might include some personal introspection. You may be right - a bad emotional week for him - but it *could be* related to some personal growth.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Good point D8zed. Introspection -- a little self awareness possibly.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Looks more like avoidance to me. 

Sitting in my driveway and waving "hey." 

If it's self awareness, just a little, it must scare the crap out of him!

FA: Late night? Haha


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## SoxMunkey (Jan 1, 2010)

CW, this has been a very interesting read. Thank you for the continuing updates. Once again, it amazes me the things that go through people's minds as to how they justify their hurting someone else.

Keep doing what you're doing and I wish you all the very best in the new year.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

DS: This thread is like my public diary. It shows the daily angst of living through a divorce. I wish it were different.

My H just called. He was going to visit our son. Not much to say. He said he was doing "uh...ok." 

I had a dream and I NEVER remember my dreams. Maybe I remember one this year. I dreamt that my H asked me to "try again." I started crying. Not sure why but I bowed my head and cried. I didn't wake up crying, it wasn't one of those dreams. I saw myself cry and didn't feel the emotion. Like I was an outsider.


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## SoxMunkey (Jan 1, 2010)

It almost sounds that in your subconscious mind, you have come to peace with yourself and the situation concerning your divorce. That's a good thing! You're at a point in where you can move on and really focus on what it is that you have to do for those who he left behind.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

So much CW - so much we can say and so much we can't - 
that's why even though we are good at analysing stuff and working things out it is never enough....
when you are in a relationship you communicate non - verbally all the time and it works 
when you are out of a relationship non-verbal communication is fraught with danger........
someone told me something recently and I really liked it but I don't really understand it - 
"your subconcsious is always on your side".........


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yup had a late night. Ha, ha

I'm not sure avoidance - in some ways maybe - but probably guilt. He might want to try again with you, but can't figure out how to approach it. That is one option. Or he is so angry with himself that he can't fact you. Another option. Or, and so on and so on. 

We won't know and can't determine without him telling you.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Exactly FA we can't determine without opening our mouths!

I feel happy today...like my life is fixing to begin. 

I'm 44 years old and will experience things that I never got to as a a single adult. I've been married for my entire adulthood.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Being single in adult hood is fun at times and lonely. I've been there CW -- I worked a lot and did my thing. Fun but not as fulfilling a life as it should have been. I need to volunteer to do something to help others. And get my son doing that with me too.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Good for you CW! Every day you seem more and more positive about your future. 

What type of things do you want to accomplish as a single person? Just curious. 

Today I am not feeling as hopeful as you. I hope I get to that point sometime soon.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I am working on my career this go around. Building friendships with new and old friends. Traveling. Helping others....

Still loving my kids but allowing myself some freedom. I'm fortunate that my kids are older. I am a blessed woman.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

You sound so great and vivid, CW! yay!


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## SoxMunkey (Jan 1, 2010)

Corpuswife said:


> I am working on my career this go around. Building friendships with new and old friends. Traveling. Helping others....
> 
> Still loving my kids but allowing myself some freedom. I'm fortunate that my kids are older. I am a blessed woman.


You are a blessed woman in so many ways CW. This is a new year and your time to shine. Make the most of it!


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## Notaclue (Jan 1, 2010)

Dreaded_Soulja said:


> You are a blessed woman in so many ways CW. This is a new year and your time to shine. Make the most of it!


CW and DS, I appreciate all your comments and advice. It's great reading that things are starting to work out for you CW.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Notaclue: Things are starting alright but it's a process. I still feel the pain and realize the blessing.

I hope that we all realize, when our spouses leave, that we can make it through the fire. Not perfect or without harm but there is another life. It's not as we had imagined or even hoped for....it wasn't always our choice.

It was only our choice in how we treated ourselves along the way.

Treat yourself good guys! Don't allow our mistakes beat us for the remainder of our lives. Forgive. We ALL have regrets. I know I do.

I pray for my husband that he has a good happy life. He deserves it as well.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Did you/have you/or will you forgive him?


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## Notaclue (Jan 1, 2010)

Thanks CW -wise words. I hope I can live them at the end of all this. Right now I'm scared, heart broken, and confused.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Ash: I have forgiven him months ago. 

Tonight, after the week of avoidance, he came to pick up our D. She was getting her stuff together for the "week." 

He came to the door..."you look great" he said.

Went on to tell me a story or two. 

He was dressed for dinner..a date with our D (I presume).

He said "I know you don't want to talk about this." 

"What?" I asked.

"Dividing up stuff" he said.

"Look. I am not the one that doesn't like to talk about stuff. Don't you remember?" I retorted

He went on to say that tomorrow, he will start putting some of the money in only my name.

Then, he left some avacados and tangerines he purchased at a fruit stand.

Before leaving, he said "can we still hug?"

I really felt like saying something sarcastic.

So I cried. I called my friend-H. I told him about it and how 3 days we are divorcing.

My H says I am beautiful, smart, people love me, and I have a "way." He just can't be married to me-right? He just doesn't want me.

My friend-H...says...remember it's not about you! 

Hmmm.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Your situation still has me scratching my head, CW. 

The fact that your H continues to praise you and give you compliments throughout your divorce is baffling. 

I will tell you one thing, he is going to have a VERY hard time getting over you. 

If I were in TX, I would shake and slap him for you to try to find out what the heck he is doing.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

PLEEEEEASEE MLS come to TEXAS! Maybe you could wake him up!


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

NG to the end CW
to the bitter end 
and too right it aint about you!!!!!!!!!!!!! you're perfect and if I was a man I'd marry you myself!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Interesting picture in my mind after that K.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yep I'll bet there is!!!!!!!!!!! 
Enjoy it in your mind cause that's the only place it'll be happening...


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Don't pull the plug on that K.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Was I just proposed to?


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

I hate all the mixed signals. My H does the same. (well use to until last night that is) He always hugs me real tight when he leaves every single day, plays around with me and the kids like everything is just fine. He bought me a wonderful Christmas present from him, not from the kids. I got him something small from each kid. Calls all the time or texts. It sucks! especially when the reality of it all hits you and you lose it. (like me)


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW it was a proposal of sorts - a virtual one - where anything is possible 

Believe - your H is doing you some serious emotional damage - I know that all relationships are different and peole can endure all sorts of living arrangements - but I read nothing but hurt in your posts - he hurts you by being kind and then withdrawing - he holds all the power while you let him -


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

K....I think you are right regarding Believe's situation. 

The pain involved from someone that wants to leave but is still hanging on. I know.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

I would definitely marry CW or K!

CW, your H is going to wake up one day. And I really think you'll be happy in your life and his heart will break.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Wren how great to hear from you! 
CW is going to be happy -
CW how have you managed to forgive him?
I am kind of hoping once I sort my financial stuff I can forgive my H 
but I get so stuck on the fact I only get to see my kids half the time 
this is the bit I find unforgivable -


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

There is this series on HBO. Big Love Wren.. We all could.. LOL


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

I firmly believe your roles are soon going to be reversed CW. There will be a time when your H faces the fact that he's made a huge mistake. Heck, he might even try the "love must be tough" approach. He's going to be the one who wants back in the relationship. 

However, I see you moving on with your life and finding real happiness.


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## lost1234 (Aug 24, 2009)

CW,

I dont know what to say...i agree with everyone else...I always thought he would come around...
you have grown and become suchan independent woman since I very first talked to you! I admire you!

if he keeps coming around?????IDK

you have done ok without him. You have forgiven him. 

I think he may have lost the best thing he ever had!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I really appreciate everyone here...really.

I made it through today ok. I'm at home, after stopped by the attorney's office to sign the divorce papers. I almost did but found a mistake.

My friends, my heart feels like it's breaking all over again. I've called my friend H and he's going to come over. I called another as well. 

There are no questions now. I've asked them all. I am just heartbroken.  The kind of sadness that only death can bring.

I thank you for supporting me here and lifting my spirits when I'm down. I don't know if my H will every want me again. I've said all along that I believed he would. But why?


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

So you haven't officially signed the papers? Does your H know this? Has he tried to contact you to see if you signed them or if your ok? 
I am so sorry for this horrible day to have finally come for you CW. My heart goes out to you. My prayers also.


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## lost1234 (Aug 24, 2009)

CW,

Not sure if i am right but my guess on why?

cause through all of this...every single shi33y phase of it, you still hold him in your heart.

its not about who is right or wrong or even why...you are human...

Im sending GREAT BIG BEAR HUGS!!!!!!


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW - lots of love to you from far away - let those friends who are nearby wrap you in the gentlest of hugs tonight......
things are going to get easier .........
K


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Today is our day for the divorce. I guess I'll sign this morning and then at 1:30 pm it's done.

I feel melancholy and I'd like to sleep all day t o escape. I am going to play it by ear to see how I feel. I have to be at work until 12 but maybe I'll think about escaping early. 

Say a prayer for me and my family. Thanks.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

We love you, CW. And we will be praying for you and holding you close today!


[A] final comfort that is small, but not cold: The heart is the only broken instrument that works. ~T.E. Kalem


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Go out tonight and celebrate your new life.. CW it can only get better. I am still shocked he hasn't second guessed enough to slow it down..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, my thoughts and prayers are with you today. Be yourself - which is a strong person.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Hey CW,

Thinking of you today, said a prayer for you. I hope the pain will ease as the day goes on.

Psalm 71:20-21
Though you have made me see troubles, many and bitter, you will restore my life again; from the depths of the earth you will again bring me up. You will increase my honor and comfort me once again.


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## SoxMunkey (Jan 1, 2010)

Corpuswife said:


> Today is our day for the divorce. I guess I'll sign this morning and then at 1:30 pm it's done.
> 
> I feel melancholy and I'd like to sleep all day t o escape. I am going to play it by ear to see how I feel. I have to be at work until 12 but maybe I'll think about escaping early.
> 
> Say a prayer for me and my family. Thanks.


I wish you all the very best. Although tough, you will finally be able to close this chapter and start fresh on an entirely new book.


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## Notaclue (Jan 1, 2010)

Prayers have been sent CW, I've learned a lot from you in the short time I have been here and know you will survive this and overcome this terible trial in your life.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Thank you for the prayers. I am officially a single woman as of today. It almost didn't go through but it ended up as planned.

I didn't have to attend and I am thankful about that.

I felt sick during the day as I do now. Sick with emotions.

After school, our D called to see if she could pick up her tennis stuff. He was waiting in the driveway. 

He ended up coming in via the garage, as I was standing in the kitchen. He had to used the restroom. Then, our D came downstairs and that was it. All I could do was stare in disgust. Like I can't believe him.

My counselor said she had never heard of such a thing. Someone, not giving you space on the day of your divorce. 

I understand restroom breaks but i suppose i need to let this one go. 

I'll probably start a new thread....as this one is at the end of the road.


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## noideato20 (Oct 27, 2009)

Im very sorry for you corpus. I hope your future is full of happiness to ease the pain of all this suffering. Thankyou for being there for others in your time of sorrow. My thoughts and prayers are with you, you are a strong woman and you have better times ahead.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

Awww CW I am sending you some very positive energy. I know today must be one of the hardest days. It is the one I dread the most. I hope you can at least find a moment of peace and that your mind can become thoughtless for a just a little while to give you a break. They say human touch is very healing and if I were there I would give you a big hug. 
Your journey has just begun. Take us along to give us hope as well. It will be amazing because you are an amazing soul.


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## Figs (Dec 2, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> FA: I think it's better to expect nothing and be surprised!


i love that quote! :iagree:


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