# Why do you dominate/ like to be dom'd?



## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

So, a spinoff of another thread that was older...

I am really curious of the following:

Men who like to dominate: Why? 

Women who like being dominated or "roughed up" in bed: Same question, why?

I have a really hard time with this. While generally, the porn I watch does involve the man "taking more control," I have this internal conflict over it being degrading or disrespectful. Sometimes I think I would like to be tossed around a bit, but again, I have this little voice that says that any man who would want to tell me to "get on your knees and suck my **" is a jerk or regarding me as only a sexual object.

I'm torn between thinking that a little hair pulling or choking, or demands during sex would be either really hot or just piss me off.

So, I want both sides to break it down for me. Tell me what it is that you get out of this type of sexual encounter.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Neither my wife nor I like to be dominated in the sense that you're talking about, but both of us most definitely prefer when the other takes charge (and this includes a low level of aggression, but again, not exactly what you're talking about).

In my day-to-day job, I'm in charge 100%, and I answer to no one. I am also given the task of being in charge of the kids, alone, for several hours a day while my wife is at work.

My wife is in charge at her job, as well, though she does have bosses, and the bulk of her day is spent being very autonomous, making her own decisions, and delegating. Then she comes home and is a parent.

So what you can see from this is that we BOTH are the ones giving the orders on a daily basis, whether it be at work, or at home.

So the bedroom is a place to escape that, I think. It is for me, any way. Constantly being in charge is tiresome and yes, boring.

The only issue is that my wife simply doesn't know how (or lacks the interest) in being more aggressive in the lead up TO the bedroom. While having sex, she lets go and will dictate and take charge - sort of. But getting there is 100% me.

I think you'll find that many people who like to BE dominated (including the ways that you are talking about) are often in positions of dominance in the workplace and/or at home, and it serves as a balance.

The other side to that coin is those that are passive by nature, and this continues into the bedroom.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

I wouldn't quite say dominating as much as I would say being in charge (similar to @alexm ).

In general, since my W is more responsive desire, this requires me to be in charge more. Otherwise, IDK, some times I like to be in charge, other times I rather sit back and let my wife run the show. Maybe it is hormonal, maybe it is the burrito I ate 2 hours before, who knows...


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## rileyawes (Jun 28, 2016)

I like it because I think it's fun. It's a departure from everyday life and routine. As long as you trust your partner and know that they truly respect you, I think you could just consider it roleplay, like you're playing two characters. I think it also opens up a wider range of positions than we usually attempt, and even the "same old" positions FEEL different when you approach them differently, mentally.

Because my husband has ADHD, he never initiates or takes charge in things he doesn't like to do, so I have to do them or tell him to so they'll get done: paying bills, cleaning house, making appointments, etc. The things that he is really interested in, and sex is #1 on his list of things he likes, it's nice for HIM to take charge doing so I don't have to.

So yeah, what they said.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I have been in relationships where the woman i was with wanted to have her hair pulled and spanked and basically to be dominated completely including restraints...and while i played along with it a couple times, it was not my natural self and that is where the relationship ended....i think that in some relationships, being dominate and/or submissive is perhaps be a change up in your sexual adventures together but to live in a dom/submissve role takes a special kind of person and i am not one of the.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm running late this morning but need to put in a quick post so I can find this later.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I'm what some people call a "switch". So is my husband. We both like to be Domme and we both like to be sub.

Why do I like to be Domme? It feels awesome. Powerful. I become this b!tch Goddess who is much desired but unattainable. I love the way he just trustingly submits and I love knowing I can do anything and he'll like it. He is mine, he has been claimed, he belongs to me and is mine to do with as I please. I love how he becomes this puddle of satisfied goo when the scene is over. 

Why do I like to be sub? Total trust and surrender of control. I don't have to think or do anything but feel and obey. I am free. I am his, I have been claimed, I belong to him and am his to do with as he pleases. And, yeah, I end up a puddle of goo, too.

From both sides of the whips and chains, it's very intense. It's a psychological and emotional need being fulfilled on a primal level. It's creative. Anyone who has gone to "Dom Depot" looking for ropes, hooks, pulleys and sundry items as well as a way to camouflage them so the kids/guests don't see knows what I am talking about.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Xenote said:


> I have been in relationships where the woman i was with wanted to have her hair pulled and spanked and basically to be dominated completely including restraints...and while i played along with it a couple times, it was not my natural self and that is where the relationship ended....i think that in some relationships, being dominate and/or submissive is perhaps be a change up in your sexual adventures together *but to live in a dom/submissve role takes a special kind of person *and i am not one of the.


Most Dom/sub couples confine their kink to the bedroom and live with as equal partners in every other aspect of married life. Some, more rare than you might think, live as Dom and sub in all aspects of their married life.

If your exGF had kinky needs, you did her and yourself a favor ending the relationship. It's miserable to have a need for BDSM and be in a relationship with someone who isn't capable of meeting that need or allowing it to be met elsewhere.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

MJJEAN said:


> Most Dom/sub couples confine their kink to the bedroom and live with as equal partners in every other aspect of married life. Some, more rare than you might think, live as Dom and sub in all aspects of their married life.
> 
> If your exGF had kinky needs, you did her and yourself a favor ending the relationship. It's miserable to have a need for BDSM and be in a relationship with someone who isn't capable of meeting that need or allowing it to be met elsewhere.


Your right Jean, i was never going to meet her needs in a manner she expected and i couldn't get pass my mind that i was first inflicting undeserved pain and subjecting her to cruel behavior...although it did make for one hell of a paper in graduate school.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

When thinking of dominant in these terms, I think we're talking about a form of dominance that is physical dominance and a "know's what he wants and takes it" attitude. 

I think that it's fairly mainstream for women to want to be dominated in the bedroom.It's pretty unusual for men to want to be dominated in the bedroom (I think this is often seen as a "kink" whereas for a woman, it's more "normal").

Many women here have a desire to be "taken".

Women having rape fantasies is a real thing.

I think that, for women, it's a "lizard" brain thing left over from the past. 

Women seem to have a need to be seen as so desirable (by a worthwhile man) that he just has to have her.

Strength and dominance are often seen as traits of the most desirable men (the guy best able to support and protect a woman).

So, it's pretty normal for your subconscious to desire this and be turned on by it.

However, the popular culture for the last 50 years say that women shouldn't want these things; that they shouldn't depend on men for support; that men who are sexually aggressive are predators to be avoided.

So women's conscious brains are telling them one thing and their subconscious brains are telling them another. No wonder that many women are confused about this.

The most self-aware women can rationalize this as being something that they want in the bedroom and not outside of it. That it's okay to be treated this way in the bedroom as long as it's consensual (which is true).

I suspect that many women want to be dominated in the bedroom but feel like it's something that they shouldn't like; therefore they don't do it and are therefore not enjoying sex as much as they could.

Men these days are told by popular culture that the last thing women want is sexual aggressiveness, they've been led to believe that this is the last thing that women want; so they are reluctant to do it.

I suspect that guys who are naturally dominant in the bedroom are naturally dominant outside of it as well. A "dominant" guy who knows what he wants and takes it isn't necessarily the best partner outside of the bedroom. 

The reverse is also the case, not naturally "dominant" in either. This guy will be more interested in your needs outside of the bedroom and, probably, make a better long term mate (other than the probability that you're not sexually attracted to him). Mr. "not naturally dominant" may be able to fake it in the bedroom, but not for long and not enthusiastically. If I was acting out a fantasy rape scene with my wife, I would't be able to get it up.

I think this is a lot of what's behind the "women like bad boys" meme. The bad boys turn them on but are not marriage material. The guys who make good husbands aren't sexually attractive.

@SimplyAmorous had a similar problem. She wanted her husband to be more aggressive in bed but it wasn't in his nature. I think she's determined that she's better off working with what she has than wishing he was someone else. 

To some degree, women have to realize what's going on in their heads and decide which way they want to go. As men become more thoughtful partners, they become less exiting in bed.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Often the Dom does what they do FOR the sub. There is often a misconception that one partner Doms at the expense of a sub. In what I would consider to be a healthy D/s relationship, any dominating is done out of love, to meet a need or desire of a sub. 

In a very real sense, it's actually the sub calling the shots.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I believe there is also a vanilla side to being dominant. I was always taught to be gentle with women, that women are physically weaker than men so we men must be careful. I have noticed that simply upping the force in which a man touches a woman during sex increases the dominance factor. For myself, I have been slowly upping the intensity in which I interact with my wife during sex. I keep waiting for her to say something like "that hurts" or "that's too rough", but it doesn't happen. She really likes to be man handled. 
So, the moral of the story, even if you're a nice guy, even if you have trouble being dominant, a simple change in the way you touch your wife can make you "look" dominant, even if you're not.

For example, if your wife is on top and you're just laying there, grab her butt and squeeze each cheek HARD. I have pushed and pulled and squeezed MUCH harder than I thought was acceptable and it's all welcomed with open arms. It's never too late to start. Even my wife of 25 years aged 50 years likes to be pushed around in bed. It only took me 20+ years to figure out. Better late than never.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> Often the Dom does what they do FOR the sub. There is often a misconception that one partner Doms at the expense of a sub. In what I would consider to be a healthy D/s relationship, any dominating is done out of love, to meet a need or desire of a sub.
> 
> In a very real sense, it's actually the sub calling the shots.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yep, this. After we were joking about it one time when I said something about she's acting like she needs her hair pulled and a spanking. Need being the operative word.. My wife mentioned that she thinks I like to spank her. I simply replied "not really, but I love that you like it," which she nodded in agreement.

Another example, she doesn't really give blowjobs, but if I pull her hair and move her head down there, she'll go with abandon and it makes her quite literally dripping wet to do so and she claims to have had orgasms just from giving them. Same reason - she loves that I like it.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

dubsey said:


> Another example, she doesn't really give blowjobs, but if I pull her hair and move her head down there, she'll go with abandon and it makes her quite literally dripping wet to do so and she claims to have had orgasms just from giving them.


I don't doubt that this is true.

But, here's what's confusing, start a new post and suggest that a guy who wants a blowjob should just grab the woman's hair and move her head down there and watch what happens!


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Buddy400 said:


> I don't doubt that this is true.
> 
> But, here's what's confusing, start a new post and suggest that a guy who wants a blowjob should just grab the woman's hair and move her head down there and watch what happens!


Waiting patiently for someone to start this thread >


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I want to start with the Idea that the male is dominant. I have no idea what the statistics are but so far we seem to have a pretty good mix. You have in both of your posts used words like "degrading", and "demeaning". This kind of thinking leads to men repressing their submissive desires, and it now leads to the confusion you are having. That part where you think it would be hot, but you wonder if you can accept it.

You see the submissive men are ridiculed because they are not manly enough to take charge. But that is often not the case. Alexm for example is in charge all day and is certainly manly enough to be in control in the bedroom, but for some reason he likes to relax and let his partner take the reins. Many women are attracted to strong men, and they want the men to prove that they are in control. But then their education is to be independent and they send mixed messages to the men in their lives. For safety men tend to err on the Nice guy side. Even independent women are turned off by this.

In fact both men and women are attracted to confidence. And to see someone asking to be submissive can be a turn off.

So when you are talking about a mutually desired sexual activity words like demeaning and degrading have no place in the conversation. We don't submit because we are repressed we submit because we desire to be owned and cherished. We don't dominate out of a desire to humiliate we Dominate because we want to show a strong emotion or because we want to supply a need of our partner. If you feel that doing these things is demeaning or hurtful then you should not be involved. 

I know we are flooding you with way too much information. please ask questions and clarifications as needed. Personally I'm a Male Smart (alec ). That means I like to be submissive but I need to fight back. I intend to lose but I need to be forced to it. My Partner is a female natural dominant who expresses it non physically. There was a time in our life when she had a very frustrating job and I could get regular physical punishment as a surrogate for her real frustrations. Happily for he she no longer needs that. I do miss it.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Buddy400 said:


> I don't doubt that this is true.
> 
> But, here's what's confusing, start a new post and suggest that a guy who wants a blowjob should just grab the woman's hair and move her head down there and watch whatft happens!










_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> I don't doubt that this is true.
> 
> But, here's what's confusing, start a new post and suggest that a guy who wants a blowjob should just grab the woman's hair and move her head down there and watch what happens!


And the really weird thing is...........

It would work a significant percentage of the time.


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## lostandhelpless (Jun 13, 2016)

Buddy400 said:


> And the really weird thing is...........
> 
> It would work a significant percentage of the time.


maybe on the weak minded. no man will ever have control of me in or out of the bedroom that i can guarantee. bjs are for younger couples and the dating scene, but once you get married, its time to settle down and start being realistic with your intimacy and life in general.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

lostandhelpless said:


> . bjs are for younger couples and the dating scene, but once you get married, its time to settle down and start being realistic with your intimacy and life in general.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

Buddy400 said:


> I don't doubt that this is true.
> 
> But, here's what's confusing, start a new post and suggest that a guy who wants a blowjob should just grab the woman's hair and move her head down there and watch what happens!


I'm not going to lie, first attempt was very much just an "in the moment" kind of thing, and even then, calling it a high level of anxiety over what I was doing wouldn't do it justice.

Now that it's known to be not only in the "acceptable" but also in the "enjoyable" area of our sex life, it's no big deal.

...but that first time, I was terrified of what would happen if it went sideways, and yeah, we did talk about it later, as we do with a lot of "tried for the first time" kind of things.

edit: just want to clarify, this isn't typically, and certainly wasn't the first time, a "stand alone bj" kind of thing. It's in the middle of fooling around, typically.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Buddy400 said:


> When thinking of dominant in these terms, I think we're talking about a form of dominance that is physical dominance and a "know's what he wants and takes it" attitude.
> 
> I think that it's fairly mainstream for women to want to be dominated in the bedroom.It's pretty unusual for men to want to be dominated in the bedroom (I think this is often seen as a "kink" whereas for a woman, it's more "normal").
> 
> ...


I think this mostly nails the dynamic, but I would add one other thing

I think a lot of women really like the IDEA of being dominated but only a subset actually like the reality of being dominated when it happens to them.

I think this disconnect is due to the fact that in their fantasies, the man dominating them is a truly dominant man, but in their reality, the men available to them are not apex males.

so 50 Shades of Gray can be a massive hit, because women can imagine a true apex male dominating them, which is hot . . . but in real life, they will never be turned on by this sort of thing because the actual men they meet cannot convincingly fill this role


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

lostandhelpless said:


> maybe on the weak minded. no man will ever have control of me in or out of the bedroom that i can guarantee. bjs are for younger couples and the dating scene, but once you get married, its time to settle down and start being realistic with your intimacy and life in general.


Things just got interesting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

lostandhelpless said:


> maybe on the weak minded. no man will ever have control of me in or out of the bedroom that i can guarantee. bjs are for younger couples and the dating scene, but once you get married, its time to settle down and start being realistic with your intimacy and life in general.


I suggest you put this at the top of your dating profile on *******!


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

lostandhelpless said:


> maybe on the weak minded. no man will ever have control of me in or out of the bedroom that i can guarantee. bjs are for younger couples and the dating scene, but once you get married, its time to settle down and start being realistic with your intimacy and life in general.


BJs are not just for young couples or dating! Lol
Once you get married, the intimacy should increase more. 
Just my opinion. 
If it's not for you then that's fine. 
But I don't believe in giving BJs dating & then not doing it once married, in my mind it's false advertising. 




Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Patricia, I think the best thing you can do if this is something you want to explore is to first ask yourself if you trust your husband. Do you trust him to do right by you in the bedroom? If the answer is yes then have a conversation about it. If you have a no-go zone, establish boundaries. 

It all comes down to being able to trust your partner. What you guys like is for you to decide, not for society.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Anon1111 said:


> I think a lot of women really like the IDEA of being dominated but only a subset actually like the reality of being dominated when it happens to them.
> 
> I think this disconnect is due to the fact that in their fantasies, the man dominating them is a truly dominant man, but in their reality, the men available to them are not apex males.


I agree with you on your first paragraph but disagree with you on the disconnect. My opinion is based strictly on personal experience but BDSM and rape games are definite no nos (not into pain for pleasure or psychological games), and I don't need or yearn domination (it's something that I do for my spouse - A fun night role playing). To be frank, I don't even like _watching_ BDSM or sexual domination sex. However, _reading_ H.E. romantica novels with dominant male leads and /or BDSM themes is completely different. 

It's a huge turn on and it has nothing to do with the sexual dominance of the male lead. It has to do with the back-story. The main characters are usually in love or on their way there, the male is protective of the female, and the female trusts the male completely. It's the emotional filler that makes all of the difference. 

So yes, the IDEA is a turn on but it's the fantasy of the perfect relationship that makes it so, not the Apex Male.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Lila said:


> *To be frank*, I don't even like _watching_ BDSM or sexual domination sex. However, _reading_ H.E. romantica novels with dominant male leads and /or BDSM themes is completely different.





> I found out about the appointment after *a very frank *discussion with H earlier this week.


Hmmm .... so @Lila ... is there something you want to tell us TAMMERs about this guy Frank, or should we be calling you Frank (troll alert ) ?????


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## lostandhelpless (Jun 13, 2016)

Anon1111 said:


> I suggest you put this at the top of your dating profile on *******!


like i said, when dating they are acceptable.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

lostandhelpless said:


> like i said, when dating they are acceptable.


gotta bait the hook, right?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Lila said:


> I agree with you on your first paragraph but disagree with you on the disconnect. My opinion is based strictly on personal experience but BDSM and rape games are definite no nos (not into pain for pleasure or psychological games), and I don't need or yearn domination (it's something that I do for my spouse - A fun night role playing). To be frank, I don't even like _watching_ BDSM or sexual domination sex. However, _reading_ H.E. romantica novels with dominant male leads and /or BDSM themes is completely different.
> 
> It's a huge turn on and it has nothing to do with the sexual dominance of the male lead. It has to do with the back-story. The main characters are usually in love or on their way there, the male is protective of the female, and the female trusts the male completely. It's the emotional filler that makes all of the difference.
> 
> So yes, the IDEA is a turn on but it's the fantasy of the perfect relationship that makes it so, not the Apex Male.


interesting.

what are these male lead characters like though? wasn't the dude in 50 Shades a ripped billionaire?

are any of these guys in these stories fat, balding accountants?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Lila said:


> I agree with you on your first paragraph but disagree with you on the disconnect. My opinion is based strictly on personal experience but BDSM and rape games are definite no nos (not into pain for pleasure or psychological games), and I don't need or yearn domination (it's something that I do for my spouse - A fun night role playing). To be frank, I don't even like _watching_ BDSM or sexual domination sex. However, _reading_ H.E. romantica novels with dominant male leads and /or BDSM themes is completely different.
> 
> It's a huge turn on and it has nothing to do with the sexual dominance of the male lead. It has to do with the back-story. The main characters are usually in love or on their way there, the male is protective of the female, and the female trusts the male completely. It's the emotional filler that makes all of the difference.
> 
> So yes, the IDEA is a turn on but it's the fantasy of the perfect relationship that makes it so, not the Apex Male.


I like this. What you're saying is that the level of trust required in a relationship like this is the actual turn on. The sex itself is just a manifestation of that. Am I close?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> Hmmm .... so @Lila ... is there something you want to tell us TAMMERs about this guy Frank, or should we be calling you Frank (troll alert ) ?????


LMAO, he's my alter ego - an a$$ kicker.










_you know you're a comic book nerd if you know who the pic refers to _


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

lostandhelpless said:


> maybe on the weak minded. no man will ever have control of me in or out of the bedroom that i can guarantee. bjs are for younger couples and the dating scene, but once you get married, its time to settle down and start being realistic with your intimacy and life in general.


Wait, WHAT?!
Please, explain to me how bjs are reserved for dating and young couples?!

DOES. NOT. COMPUTE.


Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Lila said:


> LMAO, he's my alter ego - an a$$ kicker.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Frank Castle aka The Punisher :wink2:


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Fozzy said:


> Patricia, I think the best thing you can do if this is something you want to explore is to first ask yourself if you trust your husband. Do you trust him to do right by you in the bedroom? If the answer is yes then have a conversation about it. If you have a no-go zone, establish boundaries.
> 
> It all comes down to being able to trust your partner. What you guys like is for you to decide, not for society.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Meh. I have no interest with this kind of thing with hubby. It would just be...odd and not a turn on at all


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## lostandhelpless (Jun 13, 2016)

PatriciaLee said:


> Meh. I have no interest with this kind of thing with hubby. It would just be...odd and not a turn on at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


appears i am not alone


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> Meh. I have no interest with this kind of thing with hubby. It would just be...odd and not a turn on at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


it only works if the guy just "gets it."

if you have to explain it to him, it ruins it.

a really dominant guy would just do it and would assume the girl would want it


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

It's not to say I wouldn't want to go that route with a different person. Hubby just doesn't do it for me in that scenario.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> I suspect that many women want to be dominated in the bedroom but feel like it's something that they shouldn't like; therefore they don't do it and are therefore not enjoying sex as much as they could.


Maybe lots of men want to be dominated as well.

Out of any given population there are always more followers than leaders and more submissive people versus dominant ones.



Buddy400 said:


> Men these days are told by popular culture that the last thing women want is sexual aggressiveness, they've been led to believe that this is the last thing that women want; so they are reluctant to do it.


Are they really told that or are they more often getting a variety of disparate contradictory messages? Are the men you mention incapable of thinking for themselves and following their own path? Anyway I don't presume most men are sexually aggressive at all, and suspect most men are probably less aggressive than more.



Buddy400 said:


> I suspect that guys who are naturally dominant in the bedroom are naturally dominant outside of it as well. A "dominant" guy who knows what he wants and takes it isn't necessarily the best partner outside of the bedroom.


What's wrong with being a dominant personality, somebody has to lead especially when there are lots of men and women who have no interest in being dominant or leading at all. Being dominant in and outside of the bedroom certainly isn't a bad thing.



Buddy400 said:


> The reverse is also the case, not naturally "dominant" in either. This guy will be more interested in your needs outside of the bedroom and, probably, make a better long term mate (other than the probability that you're not sexually attracted to him). Mr. "not naturally dominant" may be able to fake it in the bedroom, but not for long and not enthusiastically. If I was acting out a fantasy rape scene with my wife, I would't be able to get it up.


My wife would say, that for her a less than dominate man would make a terrible long term mate.



Buddy400 said:


> I think this is a lot of what's behind the "women like bad boys" meme. The bad boys turn them on but are not marriage material.


Hmmm,... I think marriage material is a moving feast, what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another.

Anyway what makes someone a "bad boy" or otherwise?



Buddy400 said:


> The guys who make good husbands aren't sexually attractive.


Is that what sexually unattractive husbands say in order to make themselves feel better? I have no doubt in many instances their are plenty of men who make good husbands all while being sexually attractive.

Why do you think being a good husband is coincident with not being sexually attractive?



Buddy400 said:


> As men become more thoughtful partners, they become less exiting in bed.


Being a more thoughtful partner probably has very little to do with a man being less exciting in bed. Being exciting in bed probably has a lot more to do with how one conducts themselves in bed, how much imagination they have, how skilled, attentive and thoughtful they are as a lover and how attractive they are to their partner.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

lostandhelpless said:


> maybe on the weak minded. no man will ever have control of me in or out of the bedroom that i can guarantee. bjs are for younger couples and the dating scene, but once you get married, its time to settle down and start being realistic with your intimacy and life in general.


With my wife giving me circa 3500-4000 blow jobs through 17 years of marriage she must really suck at being married.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Anon1111 said:


> interesting.
> 
> what are these male lead characters like though? wasn't the dude in 50 Shades a ripped billionaire?


I don't want to threadjack because OP is a fascinating topic but I hated 50 shades of grey. The best part was when the girl walks out on him at the end. Can't say I read beyond that first book.



Anon1111 said:


> are any of these guys in these stories fat, balding accountants?


LOL, some have a little more meat on their bones (think lumberjacks), some are bald, and yes, some are actually accountants. But no, I haven't read anything where the main lead is all three.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Fozzy said:


> I like this. What you're saying is that the level of trust required in a relationship like this is the actual turn on. The sex itself is just a manifestation of that. Am I close?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes absolutely.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> It's not to say I wouldn't want to go that route with a different person. Hubby just doesn't do it for me in that scenario.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


What is it about your husband that would preclude this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Fozzy said:


> I like this. What you're saying is that the level of trust required in a relationship like this is the actual turn on. The sex itself is just a manifestation of that. Am I close?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Light bulb moment!

I totally get this concept. So would it work both ways? Like it's a turn on for the dom that the sub trusts them so much / a turn on for the sub because they are able to put all trust in the dom?

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Fozzy said:


> What is it about your husband that would preclude this?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not sure if you have read my first thread here, but I am currently working on my sexual issues with my husband. I have limited sexual attraction to him right now due to past trust and resentment issues.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

@lostandhelpless is hurting and reacting to that hurt. What she is saying will not make sense until her world starts making sense. I'm positive that helping lostandhelpless here on PatriciaLees thread is not going to help Patricia come to an understanding. 
@PatriciaLee , the majority of men and women desire an equal partner. In fact my partner desires an equal partner. (it is a bit tough keeping up with her) All you are really interested in is a little more confidence in the bedroom. I don't see a need for setting a scene, or props or role playing. Just a little more using the muscles. Carrying you over the threshold, and so on. 

An equal marriage of partners will not have one person (male or female) making all of the sexual decisions. ie. we will have sex when I want to and only when I want to. Nor will one person (female or male) be responsible for all of the initiation. Both partners will decide together what activities will be included in their sexual play. Including oral sex, bondage, lingerie, or even stuffed plushy animals. I would never encourage you to try my kink just because I like it. You and your husband / partner need to agree together what you want to try. And do it in a shame free sharing attitude. 

Lost and helpless is throwing around some very loaded words right now, and it is in defense of her very vulnerable position. Please do not feel you are weak minded just because you don't agree with everything she says. Also do not feel you are not adventurous because you aren't interested in everything the others are talking about. There is plenty of room in the middle


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Mr. Nail said:


> Personally I'm a Male Smart (alec ). That means I like to be submissive but I need to fight back. I intend to lose but I need to be forced to it.


Is that the same thing as a Brat? Different regional terms,maybe?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Buddy400 said:


> I suspect that guys who are naturally dominant in the bedroom are naturally dominant outside of it as well. A "dominant" guy who knows what he wants and takes it isn't necessarily the best partner outside of the bedroom.
> 
> The reverse is also the case, not naturally "dominant" in either. This guy will be more interested in your needs outside of the bedroom and, probably, make a better long term mate (other than the probability that you're not sexually attracted to him). Mr. "not naturally dominant" may be able to fake it in the bedroom, but not for long and not enthusiastically. If I was acting out a fantasy rape scene with my wife, I would't be able to get it up.
> 
> ...


Since myself & husband is mentioned here.. I gotta respond.. that's Ok Buddy.. it's true.. I have wanted him to be more dominate in bed.. I never cared our 1st 19 yrs though.. maybe that doesn't even make sense..I was always sexually satisfied..

With a sex drive increase.. I wanted MORE...he's not naturally wired this way.. but this by no means = he's not a good lover, or that I lost attraction to him.. this never happened.. if anything he got more action than he could handle.. he still wanted to be there....

My attitude was.. "You are MY MAN, I want you.. and da** it... we're going to ride this out together".. he wasn't complaining..... He always gets me there.. that's the heights... 

I feel...my very Romantic side (hence my username) had it's role here...if I wasn't this type of woman... Maybe I would have grown bored with him, felt I missed out, my wanting to experience the dominate male...

Thankfully I greatly/ deeply appreciate the type of man HE IS...

So yeah.. for me to make a huge issue out of this... well there are more important things.. I can *easily* live with what he brings..he's a man who loves sex, very attentive, affectionate (in & out of the bedroom), and he's always desired me.. Do I need those things ....I believe I do.. his romantic side makes up for what I may be missing.. counteracting this somehow.. 

If he was low drive, pushed me away, I failed to turn him on..I would have been beyond frustrated & resentment would have eaten me alive... 

I read this in a book once.. describing men like my husband...so I know he's not alone..


> "Ted wants his wife to be the sexual aggressor. He loves it wen she pushes him over & jumps on top; it's the most thrilling thing he's ever known to watch his wife actively take part in the sexual act and actually work to find the postion where she receives the most stimulation. And when she's expressive about how good shes feeling , Ted can barely contain his excitement".


I've had fantasies BOTH ways.. yes I love a Hot rape fantasy, pretty much this is what Romance books are about.. it's hot & heavy.. a feirce desire is at play where the man can't control himself.. ... but I've also had the type where I am in control..the hot deva teasing the more passive male, those shy guys, not sure what to do...his lapping this up... I love the idea of being able to turn a man to mush, putty in my hands too.. I'm more aggressive naturally in temperament over my husband.. it is what it is.. 

Outside the bedroom.. I couldn't do better than him for who I am.. we compliment each other very well...

I've learned, by reading many posts here.... that the men who are NATURALLY aggressive ... they are more likely to enjoy *"some chase"*....they don't want their women EASY all the time.. a woman being hard to get , with his bringing her to her knees is a turn on to him, this ups his Alpha.... a little "subtle" is good too.. 

BUT these men AREN'T generally attracted to women coming on to HIM- he may even look at it as "Pressure".... (I'm against this in dating.. but not once we're a couple- that goes out the window for me)... 

Now if I was with a man like that.. Mr Dominant.... I'd feel I have to push down a part of who I am, my natural enthusiasm/ sex appeal - to turn him on ! I wouldn't be liking this AT ALL... trying to play "hard to get" or having to be subtle.

So there is another side of it.. it would be nothing for him to come home.. I meet him at the door dressed like a stripper...drag him upstairs.. tare his clothes off & go down on him... if he didn't like it.. I'd be Pi$$Ed off [email protected]#$ 

We took a Lover style test.. I came out the one who is more in control & wants that.. and he was more into pleasing.. that's his style.. the test put us down as a "perfect match" -which was pretty cool....even if it was a little backwards to the norm... 

This test here... The Lover Style Profile Test


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

PatriciaLee said:


> Men who like to dominate: Why?


It is who I am.


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## lostandhelpless (Jun 13, 2016)

Mr. Nail said:


> @lostandhelpless is hurting and reacting to that hurt. What she is saying will not make sense until her world starts making sense. I'm positive that helping lostandhelpless here on PatriciaLees thread is not going to help Patricia come to an understanding.
> 
> @PatriciaLee , the majority of men and women desire an equal partner. In fact my partner desires an equal partner. (it is a bit tough keeping up with her) All you are really interested in is a little more confidence in the bedroom. I don't see a need for setting a scene, or props or role playing. Just a little more using the muscles. Carrying you over the threshold, and so on.
> 
> ...


all i am saying is that she has a right to not be intimate if she does not feel connected to her husband. that is 100% completely normal. she needs to get re-attached, and for that to happen, her husband needs to step up and help her get past these issues from the past. until he does that, this marriage is in the state it is currently in.
@jld needs to come in here and share her thoughts as well. you will find her very insightful.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I recall reading an article in which several women were very open about being dominated in bed, and the majority of women felt that they could see themselves in that role with a stranger rather then their husband. they wanted to be treated as the "bad girl" by a stranger rather then their husband in that way they could maintain their good girl appearance before their husband. 
I recall with a woman who was just recently separated/divorced (it was the 80's), and we were more like FWB, asked me to try a lot of new things with her, and when i asked her later if she had done these things with her husband she said "Oh god no, that is not something you do with your husband." that just made me so sad to hear. When you can't be honest with the one person you should be most open with, than what does that say about the marriage, in the end i guess we all roles, it just depends who you are playing with at the time.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

MJJEAN said:


> Is that the same thing as a Brat? Different regional terms,maybe?


Brat with a better sense of humor. I'm not prone to tantrums (much)



lostandhelpless said:


> all i am saying is that she has a right to not be intimate if she does not feel connected to her husband. that is 100% completely normal. she needs to get re-attached, and for that to happen, her husband needs to step up and help her get past these issues from the past. until he does that, this marriage is in the state it is currently in.


Reattachment has to be a partner thing. Many betrayed persons feel that the wayward must do all of the work (not just the heavy lifting) And somehow attraction will magically reappear. There will have to be movement on both sides to reach a healthy state.



lostandhelpless said:


> @jld needs to come in here and share her thoughts as well. you will find her very insightful.


I'm also surprised she isn't here.


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## lostandhelpless (Jun 13, 2016)

Xenote said:


> these things with her husband she said "Oh god no, that is not something you do with your husband."


i agree that the wild days need to stay in the past once you get married, that's just a sacrifice you have to make when you settle down. again, glad to see that other women share my same mindset.

when you get married, its time to start thinking about a career, house, family. not the next new wild thing you want to do in the bedroom. not to mention the risk of being seen in a different light when you do these things. so many women have a reputation of being a **** for simple things like a bj... just wrong.


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## lostandhelpless (Jun 13, 2016)

Mr. Nail said:


> Brat with a better sense of humor. I'm not prone to tantrums (much)
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also surprised she isn't here.


hopefully she will be soon, i think the op could also benefit from her insight.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

lostandhelpless said:


> i agree that the wild days need to stay in the past once you get married, that's just a sacrifice you have to make when you settle down. again, glad to see that other women share my same mindset.
> 
> when you get married, its time to start thinking about a career, house, family. not the next new wild thing you want to do in the bedroom. not to mention the risk of being seen in a different light when you do these things. so many women have a reputation of being a **** for simple things like a bj... just wrong.


I'm sorry, but your POV is bonkers to me. To each thier own, but for me, even with how vanilla I can be, your opinion is borderline offensive.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

lostandhelpless said:


> i agree that the wild days need to stay in the past once you get married, that's just a sacrifice you have to make when you settle down. again, glad to see that other women share my same mindset.
> 
> when you get married, its time to start thinking about a career, house, family. not the next new wild thing you want to do in the bedroom. not to mention the risk of being seen in a different light when you do these things. so many women have a reputation of being a **** for simple things like a bj... just wrong.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Xenote said:


> I recall reading an article in which several women were very open about being dominated in bed, and the majority of women felt that they could see themselves in that role with a stranger rather then their husband. they wanted to be treated as the "bad girl" by a stranger rather then their husband in that way they could maintain their good girl appearance before their husband.
> I recall with a woman who was just recently separated/divorced (it was the 80's), and we were more like FWB, asked me to try a lot of new things with her, and when i asked her later if she had done these things with her husband she said "Oh god no, that is not something you do with your husband." that just made me so sad to hear. When you can't be honest with the one person you should be most open with, than what does that say about the marriage, in the end i guess we all roles, it just depends who you are playing with at the time.


the very fact that a man is committed to 1 woman is an indication that he is not "dominant."

leo dicaprio, Derek jeter, Clooney for most of his career, JFK, etc, etc, were not 1 woman men. 

would many women want a guy like this for a husband?-- probably not. 

but they would probably prefer him for this type of encounter over their "safe" husbands.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Paging @jld and @Anon Pink. Your wisdom is needed ladies. Get your butts in here already!


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## lostandhelpless (Jun 13, 2016)

PatriciaLee said:


> I'm sorry, but your POV is bonkers to me. To each thier own, but for me, even with how vanilla I can be, your opinion is borderline offensive.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


i respect thta patricia, all i am saying is don't let the people here sway you to think that you have to do everything to get your relationship back in line. your h needs to do alot of the lifting as well.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

lostandhelpless said:


> when you get married, its time to start thinking about a career, house, family. not the next new wild thing you want to do in the bedroom.


What the hell else am I supposed to be thinking about when I do the dishes and fold the laundry? Household chores would royally suck if I wasn't plotting various forms of kinky and vanilla seduction.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> Light bulb moment!
> 
> I totally get this concept. So would it work both ways? Like it's a turn on for the dom that the sub trusts them so much / a turn on for the sub because they are able to put all trust in the dom?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


ok, first, I wouldn't call my wife a sub, in any way shape or form. that said...

she's a "good girl." always has been. turns out, she really kinda isn't, and is quite naughty - she just has very responsive desire. So, if I'm in charge in the bedroom, somehow her being naughty preserves the "good girl" thing and she fully trusts me not to mess it up or go too far and pay attention to how she's responding to things.


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## lostandhelpless (Jun 13, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> What the hell else am I supposed to be thinking about when I do the dishes and fold the laundry? Household chores would royally suck if I wasn't plotting various forms of kinky and vanilla seduction.


its up to the man to seduce


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

lostandhelpless said:


> its up to the man to seduce


:rofl:


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

just for the record I hate vanilla....and another thing....any one who tells you when you marry that sex is not the most important thing should be crucified they are liars.

who wants the soap box now.


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## lostandhelpless (Jun 13, 2016)

Xenote said:


> just for the record I hate vanilla....and another thing....any one who tells you when you marry that sex is not the most important thing should be crucified they are liars.
> 
> who wants the soap box now.


sex is NOT the most important thing about marriage, there are sexless marriages out there, it's the companionship, friendship, and enjoying each other. sex is a perk/reward/whatever you call it. sure its nice but when you have a partner that is controlling then it becomes a nightmare.

my h tried to dominate with me and it was a HUGE turn on while dating, but when we got married i wanted him to tone it down and just be romantic, take it slow when we have sex. he kept going on with being dominate and it just seemed controlling to me.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

lostandhelpless said:


> sex is NOT the most important thing about marriage, there are sexless marriages out there, it's the companionship, friendship, and enjoying each other. sex is a perk/reward/whatever you call it. sure its nice but when you have a partner that is controlling then it becomes a nightmare.
> 
> my h tried to dominate with me and it was a HUGE turn on while dating, but when we got married i wanted him to tone it down and just be romantic, take it slow when we have sex. he kept going on with being dominate and it just seemed controlling to me.


you are entitle to your opinion as am i.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Sounds like you both failed to have a conversation about your sexual expectations before getting married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

lostandhelpless said:


> my h tried to dominate with me and it was a HUGE turn on while dating, but when we got married i wanted him to tone it down and just be romantic, take it slow when we have sex. he kept going on with being dominate and it just seemed controlling to me.


this is an extreme version, but probably not too far off from more typical variations that happen often in real life

romantic = just be my pal and financial resource


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

@lostandhelpless, sex should continue to be fun, crazy and even wild long into your golden years.

I'm 53 and my H is 57 and we park the car on a deserted hill and have sex. We have sex outside in our pool, even in our filthy shed (both of us totally sweaty and dirty and muddy...it was awesome!) when sex becomes sedate, routine and methodical someone is going to lose interest.
@PatriciaLee, I'm confused. Is this something you're interested in doing, or something you're interested in because it turns you on meanwhile the feminist in you needs to deny this?

I have always been turned on by bondage. Remember Dudley DooRight and his GF Nell who was always getting tied up by Snidely Whiplash? I was just a kid and thought, I want to do that! Get tied up I mean. Now when my H handcuffs me it's like crazy erotic for me! 

I love being Dominated in the bedroom! Love being rag dolled. Love it when he gets in my space. However in person I can be pretty intimidating and I don't even realize I'm doing it.

So if this is something you're drawn to, but you think it's degrading so you don't want to want it...well you're going to lose that battle. 

I am a feminist.
I am a strong woman.
I love to be dominated, even though I suck as a submissive. My h needs to really dominate me and he's learned that because if he is weak in the bedroom this girls panties stay dry.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Anon1111 said:


> the very fact that a man is committed to 1 woman is an indication that he is not "dominant."
> 
> leo dicaprio, Derek jeter, Clooney for most of his career, JFK, etc, etc, were not 1 woman men.
> 
> ...


WTF?

Dont confuse dominant with d!ckhead. 

People always do that? Why do they do that?

Anyone can be a dominant. Men and women. All it takes is faith, and trust, and a little pixie dust!

ETA: faith in yourself, trust in your partner, and erotic imagination.


Why do men like to dominate? My H says he loves how utterly turned on I get. He also says it's the only time he can get away with telling me to shut up.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> WTF?
> 
> Dont confuse dominant with d!ckhead.
> 
> ...



dominant and d!ckhead aren't synonymous, but there is overlap

not everyone can actually be dominant

there is a difference between play acting and actual dominance


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

lostandhelpless said:


> i agree that the wild days need to stay in the past once you get married, that's just a sacrifice you have to make when you settle down. again, glad to see that other women share my same mindset.
> 
> when you get married, its time to start thinking about a career, house, family. not the next new wild thing you want to do in the bedroom. not to mention the risk of being seen in a different light when you do these things. so many women have a reputation of being a **** for simple things like a bj... just wrong.


I don't know why anyone would call a woman a s#$t for giving her HUSBAND a BJ, but I do know one thing...

men like to fix things. I am a man. as such, I also like to fix things. 

so... if my wife told me that we could no longer have fun and wild sex because marriage, I would know exactly how to "fix" that whole pesky marriage thing that was getting in the way.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Anon1111 said:


> dominant and d!ckhead aren't synonymous, but there is overlap
> 
> not everyone can actually be dominant
> 
> there is a difference between play acting and actual dominance


there certainly is a difference, but you are mistaken about something. anyone CAN be dominant. 

many, probably most, just don't know how. or lack the desire.


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## rileyawes (Jun 28, 2016)

Anon1111 said:


> this is an extreme version, but probably not too far off from more typical variations that happen often in real life
> 
> romantic = just be my pal and financial resource


romantic = treat me like you did before we were married.

The married men on this site disgust me sometimes. They want their wives to have the same amount of sexual desire for them that they had before they were married, but at the same time stop treating their wives as objects of affection and attraction. I've seen studies that cohabiting couples share household chores, but once they marry, and especially once they have children, the balance shifts dramatically to the women, even if they work equal hours and contribute equally to the household. 

Certainly men pay attention to and are intimate with women before they marry, but where are the love poems, the long moments of eye contact, the fun and games, the flowers and candies, the calls and texts "just because" or "just to say hi" or "just to hear your voice," the hikes and picnics, the evenly split chores, the affection, the active listening and engagement in conversation, the cuddling and talking about the future (with the TV off) once you're married?? You don't expect wives to want to have sex with their husbands, so you don't try. You expect wives TO have sex with their husbands, because they're married, desire be damned. 

I'm sick of all you men on this site calling your wife a low-desire partner. You both have high desire, just for different things. If your marriage is crappy and you're not communicating well, one spouse isn't happy or healthy, you're not having fun together, and you still want to have sex? The problem is with you, not with the partner that's thinking "things aren't right here, sex is not my priority." 

Thinking like that makes your spouses dry up like the Sahara. It makes them feel used and disgusting.

The partner that makes sure his or her spouse is feeling loved, secure, and happy, and that shows affection and unconditional love, that helps around the house and tries to ease his/her spouse's burdens is a spouse that "deserves" sex. The spouse that will talk to the other without judging or guilt instead of complaining on the internet about how they were "tricked" or how they want a divorce because the situation is sooo unbearable is way more likely to get some. Badsanta had some pretty good advice in his thread.

Saying things like:


Anon1111 said:


> this is an extreme version, but probably not too far off from more typical variations that happen often in real life
> 
> romantic = just be my pal and financial resource


show that if you're dissatisfied with your sex life in your marriage, you are absolutely 100% the problem. I wouldn't have sex with you with someone else's vagina in a dream, even if you WERE my husband.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Anon1111 said:


> dominant and d!ckhead aren't synonymous, but there is overlap
> 
> not everyone can actually be dominant
> 
> there is a difference between play acting and actual dominance


When we first started, my H was ...not entirely comfortable in that role. So he blindfolded me which prevented me from interfering with his game/role. And yes it was a bit of okay acting. And yet it worked and worked well for me.

Now...2years into it with lots of other problems to also deal with and he can put on his Dom face in a heart beat. Now it's less of a role and more of a persona that the good catholic choir boy kept hidden waaaaaay deep down.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

as for the OPs original question, there are a few reasons i am the dominant partner in my marriage...

one, everyday life: i have am better at handling new situations and new challenges than my wife is. to me, new challenges are simply a fact of life. i have gotten pretty good at looking at the second and third order of effects and planning accordingly. in fact, i am so much better at it than my wife that she often laments that she feels stupid in comparison. the truth is, she is far from stupid. i started learning how to do predictive analysis about twenty years ago. she has been doing it for a few years, and she is learning far faster than i did. i expect that in the future, she will not need me to lead in as many every day challenges.

two, health and safety: my wife suffers from anxiety and major depressive disorder, with a bit of toxic shame mixed in from her childhood. until a few years ago, it has been her norm to consider herself a failure, unlovable, undesirable, etc. she used to have a tendency to lash out from her pain and was afraid that i would leave her because of it. the D/s dynamic provides her with a way to be able to feel as though she has a way to "atone" for whatever mistakes she might have made. otherwise, she cant bring herself to believe that i can forgive her. the longer we go with this dynamic, the less and less she is needing me to reassure her. so, i foresee the day when she wont need me to provide consequences for her mistakes. she will simply accept that i can forgive her. i am always working towards that goal, and she is progressing beautifully. enjoying life like she never has before. its amazing to watch.

three, SEX!!!: in the bedroom, i dominate my wife because it is such a pleasure to see her completely lose herself. i would be hard pressed to think of something more gratifying than to know that i brought my wife well beyond the point of screaming in ecstasy, but to the point where she cannot even utter a coherent sound. to the point where she nearly(or fully) passes out due to having extremely intense orgasms, one after another. to see her rubbing soft things against her skin half an hour later because her body is still tingling...
knowing that I am the one that brings her so much pleasure. to know that i took a wife that wanted sex no more than once a month and found out how to help her enjoy it enough to want it every day. i anticipate that part will stay.

yea, who WOULDN'T love that?


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

This thread is NOT about Sexless marriage or Bait and switch. It is about what dominant and submissive partners GET form their roles in that marriage.

I would suggest Lost and helpless get her own thread, or at least tell us what she gets out of denying her ex husband Sex and dominating the sexual relationship by unilaterally deciding the how, when, and (perversely) the Who initiates in her former relationship.

I can't defend you when you insist on insulting every member of the discussion and hijacking the thread.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

rileyawes said:


> romantic = treat me like you did before we were married.
> 
> The married men on this site disgust me sometimes. They want their wives to have the same amount of sexual desire for them that they had before they were married, but at the same time stop treating their wives as objects of affection and attraction. I've seen studies that cohabiting couples share household chores, but once they marry, and especially once they have children, the balance shifts dramatically to the women, even if they work equal hours and contribute equally to the household.
> 
> ...



why don't you tell me what you really think? 

I totally agree with you by the way-- the scales need to balance

so if you're not intimate physically on a regular basis, you shouldn't expect your husband to be prince charming

if you ignore your wife, you shouldn't expect her to be enthusiastic

unfortunately, just because you do all of the right things doesn't mean that the other person will reciprocate (male or female)

my experience has been that women will often recommend "romance" when the wife is already dry as the sahara

at that point the extra romance just reinforces what a doormat the husband is

one can easily imagine it the other way with an indifferent husband and a wife who is bending over backwards to please.

neither is OK


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## rileyawes (Jun 28, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> my wife suffers from anxiety and major depressive disorder, with a bit of toxic shame mixed in from her childhood. until a few years ago, it has been her norm to consider herself a failure, unlovable, undesirable, etc. she used to have a tendency to lash out from her pain and was afraid that i would leave her because of it.


Probably also it makes her feel desirable, like you can't keep your hands off her, even if you wanted to, and provides her moments where there's no room for self-doubt.

This sounds stupid, but honestly, your comment brought a little tear to my eye. That's pretty sweet, and I'm glad your wife is healing. It sounds like your relationship is improving as a result as well.

PatriciaLee, another thing: I think one thing that's nice about it is that a woman who is usually dominant or on top of things, gets to relax and turn off her brain a bit. Also a man who isn't usually dominant gets to flex that muscle. I get turned on when my husband is dominant in bed, but I think if he were a dominant type person all the time, and a bit bossy or controlling, I would probably hate being dominated by him sexually. It'd be like one more thing I didn't have control over and I'd probably resist. 

My husband has ADHD and executive function disorders, so I think he also likes feeling that he's competent (in his case, more than competent) at something. He's in charge and he does an excellent job, and pleases us both. No planning, time management skills or organization required. And it's something he WANTS to pay attention to, so he does, lol. Like As'laDain's wife, sometimes he makes mistakes and is really down on himself about them. Even if they're not a big deal, he sees it as one more f*ck up he's made, which is really bad for the self-esteem. The things he's good at, he's really great at, so it's healthy for him. I think regular, non-dom sex wouldn't provide the same sense of accomplishment because he wouldn't be in control of it.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Mr. Nail said:


> This thread is NOT about Sexless marriage or Bait and switch. It is about what dominant and submissive partners GET form their roles in that marriage.
> 
> I would suggest Lost and helpless get her own thread, or at least tell us what she gets out of denying her ex husband Sex and dominating the sexual relationship by unilaterally deciding the how, when, and (perversely) the Who initiates in her former relationship.
> 
> I can't defend you when you insist on insulting every member of the discussion and hijacking the thread.


Looks like she was banned anyhow. You can check out her thread below, although part of me believes this is the work of a troll ...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/338257-loss-husband-will-not-have-sex-me.html


----------



## rileyawes (Jun 28, 2016)

Anon1111 said:


> why don't you tell me what you really think?
> 
> I totally agree with you by the way-- the scales need to balance
> 
> ...


If one partner is doing everything right and is not satisfied, and if the sexual relationship has taken a major downturn, that's a cause for a serious conversation. I know that people can be uncomfortable and see their lack of desire as a "failing" which can make them defensive. Or they think they're being criticized when they're not and instead of investigating the reasons, will say what sounds good or what they think their spouse wants to hear. 

If that doesn't yield results, I think a physical and mental check-up would be in order. Many relationships are ruined or damaged because one or both partners won't do the hard introspective work it takes to improve their lives and by extension, their partnership. I think one thing that helps, though, is decreasing the importance of sex in the marriage until some kind of solution can be reached. The pushing, prodding, begging, recriminating, guilting, etc are major turn-offs AND cause resentment (on both sides!). I mean, who wants to have sex with a pouting child.

Sorry I made assumptions about you in particular and flew off the handle at your comment. It seemed like a huge generalization that painted women in a negative light. You didn't do this, but I'm kinda tired of the one-sided woe-is-me stories from (most likely) extremely selfish partners, and the comments denigrating women. I see several comments every day that are just so wrong-headed, like women have sex and give blow-jobs before marriage just to "get the ring" that it's just mind-boggling.


----------



## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> . . . . some times I like to be in charge, other times I rather sit back and let my wife run the show. Maybe it is hormonal,* maybe it is the burrito I ate 2 hours before, who knows...*


It's the burrito Ellis. It's always the burrito. I suspect burritos are responsible for most BDSM dynamics.

Come on, I dare you, find some kind of gif or graphic with a burrito decked out in leather and chains . . . pleeeeez


----------



## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

> @PatriciaLee, I'm confused. Is this something you're interested in doing, or something you're interested in because it turns you on meanwhile the feminist in you needs to deny this? [\quote]
> 
> It is actually something I have quite an interest in. I just have that annoying voice inside me that says it is wrong. I am hoping that understanding it a bit more will help me get over my hangups.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Lila said:


> Paging @jld and @Anon Pink. Your wisdom is needed ladies. Get your butts in here already!


Yes. Butts first.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

PatriciaLee said:


> > @PatriciaLee, I'm confused. Is this something you're interested in doing, or something you're interested in because it turns you on meanwhile the feminist in you needs to deny this? [\quote]
> >
> > It is actually something I have quite an interest in. I just have that annoying voice inside me that says it is wrong. I am hoping that understanding it a bit more will help me get over my hangups.
> 
> ...


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

@PatriciaLee,

By hang ups do you mean to say that you can't bring yourself to acknowledge what turns you on because "a good feminist isn't supposed to want this" and because you do want this you feel ashamed?

Also, I just skimmed your first thread. I recall your husband has d0ouchebag tendencies including bullying you into sex acts you don't want/like.

This really complicates things because first you have to get over our inner feminist and remind her that equality means we get to seek what makes us happy even if that includes being the submissive house wife. Second, your H isn't yet trustworthy, IMO to dominate you. 

Before you try on these roles you have to let that vagina you've been growing since your first thread out to play. You have to be ready and able to speak the hell up! You have to own what you want and own what you don't want. And by the way, what you don't want will change over time and what you do want will also change over time. Nothing is set in stone.

Someone up thread made a comment about how women don't want their husbands to dominate them but some guy off the street would be better. That is 100% untrue. Anyone who is actually interested in being dominated would NEVER EVER hand the reins over to some stranger.

Patricia, I have trust issues. I could never imagine allowing anyone other than my H to dominate me. No damn way!


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## rileyawes (Jun 28, 2016)

PatriciaLee said:


> > @PatriciaLee, I'm confused. Is this something you're interested in doing, or something you're interested in because it turns you on meanwhile the feminist in you needs to deny this? [\quote]
> >
> > It is actually something I have quite an interest in. I just have that annoying voice inside me that says it is wrong. I am hoping that understanding it a bit more will help me get over my hangups.
> 
> ...


----------



## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> [MENTION=248097]
> Someone up thread made a comment about how women don't want their husbands to dominate them but some guy off the street would be better. That is 100% untrue. Anyone who is actually interested in being dominated would NEVER EVER hand the reins over to some stranger.


not sure if you're referring to me, but my point was that this is a fantasy a lot of women have, but they really don't have access to an acceptable outlet for it in real life

hubby is too boring and random guy is too unknown/scary

I do believe that the IDEA of random guy is probably more appealing for the average woman compared to her husband because in her head, random guy can be anything, whereas her husband is a known quantity

idea is not the same as reality though


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Anon1111 said:


> not sure if you're referring to me, but my point was that this is a fantasy a lot of women have, but they really don't have access to an acceptable outlet for it in real life
> 
> hubby is too boring and random guy is too unknown/scary
> 
> ...


I don't know who said it, may have been you.

I can see how *the idea* of the random guy might seem more appealing but for a woman who is thinking about doing more than having an active inner fantasy life, she would find a way to bring it to her husband. 

Yes, random guy can be anything, and hubby has been pigeon holed. But there are a ton of women who are turning their husbands into their dominant partners. In fact I have a friend who's husband is a very needy guy, emotionally, and he gets on her nerves beyond belief. After hearing all about their sex life, or lack of, I started telling her that her husband is the perfect candidate to learn to be a dominant. She laughed her ass off but our other friend, who is almost kinky, could see how that might be an answer to their marriage woes. 

I have always felt that former nice guys make the best dominants because nice guys are used to taking the ambient temperature of the room and adjust accordingly. but they have to be FORMER nice guys. If they're not working on their covert contracts and passive aggressive tendencies, forget it.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

notmyrealname4 said:


> It's the burrito Ellis. It's always the burrito. I suspect burritos are responsible for most BDSM dynamics.
> 
> Come on, I dare you, find some kind of gif or graphic with a burrito decked out in leather and chains . . . pleeeeez


Burrito is true love ....


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Anon1111 said:


> the very fact that a man is committed to 1 woman is an indication that he is not "dominant."
> 
> leo dicaprio, Derek jeter, Clooney for most of his career, JFK, etc, etc, were not 1 woman men.
> 
> ...


 I say this with all honesty... I do NOT understand these women, what some of these posts are hitting on.... how they can suddenly be WILD & crazy with a total stranger but not their own husbands.. this is totally foreign to me..it doesn't make sense.. 

It also tells me they & their husbands do NOT really know each other.. they have things "hidden"... 

I am the complete opposite of this...I need to feel Loved/ safe, cared for, wanted & hotly desired by one of those "one woman" types... This IS what gives me the freedom to let my hair fully down - so I can show him everything I have to offer.. that Erotic side... use him as my guinea pig so to speak.. that's all the fun [email protected]# 

Funny how different people are.. Am I that strange ?? 

These guys you mention above.. I never found any of them attractive, which obviously hoards of women have .... their lifestyles surely didn't help any.


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## rileyawes (Jun 28, 2016)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I say this with all honesty... I do NOT understand these women, what some of these posts are hitting on.... how they can suddenly be WILD & crazy with a total stranger but not their own husbands.. this is totally foreign to me..it doesn't make sense..
> 
> It also tells me they & their husbands do NOT really know each other.. they have things "hidden"...
> 
> ...


Madonna/wh*re complex.
Same reason some men have trouble seeing their wives as sexual beings once they've become mothers. 
Obviously the dichotomy is troublesome as it doesn't allow room for a range of normal/ less extreme behaviors along the spectrum.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

rileyawes said:


> Madonna/wh*re complex.
> Same reason some men have trouble seeing their wives as sexual beings once they've become mothers.
> Obviously the dichotomy is troublesome as it doesn't allow room for a range of normal/ less extreme behaviors along the spectrum.


Ok... I've always assumed the majority of men want their wives to be a lady in the streets.. but a "freak" in the sheets - just for him.. maybe they don't talk about this or say these things... but ultimately.. isn't this what we yearn for?... Now if she is spreading it all around to other men.. No.. that doesn't work.. but just him.. Oh yeah!

I've heard of situations where men seem to loose desire when their wives are carrying a child.. isn't this the Madonna / Wh* thing... this never slowed my H down.. 

I don't see this any different than what I'd want in a man even..... Give me some Bad boy in Bed.. but I want a pure Gentleman out & about.. in how I am treated every day.. I sure as hell don't want him being a Bad boy out & about with other woman! 

I find both of those ideal.. am I so off -in what we fantasize about in a lover...in sexual fulfillment, Eroticism in monogamy? 

I mean, I get it ... with many before they settle down, they want to do the whole "sowing wild oats" thing.. . but once married /committed.. it's not like that part of us dies, does it?

We should be even more inclined to share our EVERYTHING with our lover...do all we can to enhance the Passion between each other... this way things won't get boring.. but stay Rocking.. playfully flirt.. introducing new novelty ...sharing our fantasies... this too, helps bond us & keeps the sparks flying...


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

PatriciaLee said:


> > @PatriciaLee, I'm confused. Is this something you're interested in doing, or something you're interested in because it turns you on meanwhile the feminist in you needs to deny this? [\quote]
> >
> > It is actually something I have quite an interest in. I just have that annoying voice inside me that says it is wrong. I am hoping that understanding it a bit more will help me get over my hangups.
> 
> ...


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Anon1111 said:


> I think this mostly nails the dynamic, but I would add one other thing
> 
> I think a lot of women really like the IDEA of being dominated but only a subset actually like the reality of being dominated when it happens to them.
> 
> ...


Does this lead to female sexual unhappiness because they have a hard time getting what they think they want?


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

PatriciaLee said:


> It's not to say I wouldn't want to go that route with a different person. Hubby just doesn't do it for me in that scenario.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


Is this something that you are unhappy about?


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

PatriciaLee said:


> Light bulb moment!
> 
> I totally get this concept. So would it work both ways? Like it's a turn on for the dom that the sub trusts them so much / a turn on for the sub because they are able to put all trust in the dom?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


I would think that* if* one had submissive tendencies, you would have to have total trust in the relationship to submit.

However,* if one doesn't* have the tendency to submit, total trust isn't going to change anything.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Since myself & husband is mentioned here.. I gotta respond.. that's Ok Buddy.. it's true.. I have wanted him to be more dominate in bed.. I never cared our 1st 19 yrs though.. maybe that doesn't even make sense..I was always sexually satisfied..


Thanks, I knew you'd have something very relevant to say.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Buddy400 said:


> I would think that* if* one had submissive tendencies, you would have to have total trust in the relationship to submit.
> 
> However,* if one doesn't* have the tendency to submit, total trust isn't going to change anything.


There's submission and then there's submission. It looks different for different people.

Submission for some might just be knowing that their partner has their back. Has everything under control. And being able to relax and let go because of that.

Doesn't have to be 9 1/2 weeks crawling across the floor stuff.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Buddy400 said:


> I would think that* if* one had submissive tendencies, you would have to have total trust in the relationship to submit.


Not necessarily. Many people scene at play parties with folks they have just met and may never see again.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

PatriciaLee said:


> It is actually something I have quite an interest in. I just have that annoying voice inside me that says it is wrong.


I think a lot more women than one might think are in the same boat as you.

But, if you're not interested in this with your husband, that's not a good sign for your marriage.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> PatriciaLee said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, a LOT of us who are into BDSM have that voice. That voice is a buzzkill and should be ruthlessly assassinated. Easier said than done.
> ...


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Buddy400 said:


> Is this something that you are unhappy about?


Hah. Yes. 

That's a whole different thread that goes on for dozens of pages though. I am working on it.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

PatriciaLee said:


> Hah. Yes.
> 
> That's a whole different thread that goes on for dozens of pages though. I am working on it.


I was asking if you were unhappy that you couldn't see your husband being dominant.

I just read your original thread.

I'm getting the feeling that this whole Dom/sub thing could just what your marriage needs (and I'm no fan of Dom/sub).


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Buddy400 said:


> I was asking if you were unhappy that you couldn't see your husband being dominant.
> 
> I just read your original thread.
> 
> I'm getting the feeling that this whole Dom/sub thing could just what your marriage needs (and I'm no fan of Dom/sub).


I'm really working hard at trying to get our sexual relationship on track and being more open and less up tight. I've got a lot of trust issues in our sex life, so hopefully we can work past those things and explore a bit.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## Giro flee (Mar 12, 2013)

Mr Giro and I have tried some d/s stuff. It only works for us when the d is giving pleasure and the s is receiving. We both are uncomfortable with the d demanding the s to give them pleasure. Not sure if that makes sense?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I say this with all honesty... I do NOT understand these women, what some of these posts are hitting on.... how they can suddenly be WILD & crazy with a total stranger but not their own husbands.. this is totally foreign to me..it doesn't make sense..
> 
> It also tells me they & their husbands do NOT really know each other.. they have things "hidden"...
> 
> ...


No need to rant, what was said, as is often the case around here, was TAM Talk myth.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Giro flee said:


> Mr Giro and I have tried some d/s stuff. It only works for us when the d is giving pleasure and the s is receiving. We both are uncomfortable with the d demanding the s to give them pleasure. Not sure if that makes sense?


makes sense. such flavors of D/s as that usually go well with orgasm denial/control as well. 

the point of which is not, of course, to completely deny the sub from having an orgasm, but rather to delay it to a point where the sub has a much more intense orgasm when they are finally "allowed" to. 

fun stuff.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> I'm really working hard at trying to get our sexual relationship on track and being more open and less up tight. I've got a lot of trust issues in our sex life, so hopefully we can work past those things and explore a bit.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


Patricia, I took a look through your original thread. How is the counseling going? I can understand why you are having some trust issues. Is he taking your point of view seriously?


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## Akinaura (Dec 6, 2011)

As'la's wife here. I'd like to add to Asladain's post that communication is absolute key to any dynamic you set up, and also key to turning that little voice off in the back of your head. Knowing exactly what Asla is going to do, each and every time (after several really BAD attempts of me trusting him, lol), helps make it easier to turn off that voice that says "good girls don't do this", and let's me relax and enjoy the moment. To stop worrying about everything else and just exist for a few moments during the day. To stop trying to be the perfect wife, perfect mother, perfect person and just be me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Anon Pink said:


> No need to rant, what was said, as is often the case around here, was TAM Talk myth.


 I'm ranting ? 

Whatever I said you don't like & see as a nothing more than a Rant.. chalk it up to a matter of opinion then... I offer a different perspective....this should add flavor to any forum...

Look at it this way... I am just another @jld here...one thing about you I've always noticed & appreciated....thread after heated thread....you have stood up for her , respected her right to speak how she feels...much against the grain here. (I feel the same) 



Buddy400 said:


> Thanks, I knew you'd have something very relevant to say.


 I don't know that anything I said was.. a lot of the talk on here is about *S & M*.. that's not us at all... even if I may take more of a "creative" lead ...

I bought a book yrs > "Sm 101: A Realistic Introduction" out of pure curiosity... 

The 1st thing I looked up was "Erotically Dominating a Submissive man", I started reading the steps to him one night ... 



> *1*. Order him to strip & kneel at your feet
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is just not us...it's more of a give & take.. wanting to get lost in each other... I am more of an Erotic over him, seeking more adventure / trying new things...over his sensual Love maker ways.. but I *NEED* this too....or I'd be here complaining/ whining he's lacking the Emotional in sex, that romance that means so much to me...that I wouldn't be able to live with. 

I don't really belong on this thread, thanks anyway Buddy!


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

@SimplyAmorous

You belong on this thread as much as anyone else here. OP asked why people liked to be dominated, or dominate. And you shared that you don't, although you investigated it. And found it to be "not you".

As usual, you were totally respectful; allowing others to share their viewpoint, while being generous about sharing your own experiences.

I'm the same as you, I don't get it *at all*. But, if other people are made happy and complete by it: more power to them.

@PatriciaLee You see, many folks here are supporting and encouraging you to explore these feelings, and that there's nothing wrong with doing so. These posters have the same types of desires and turn-ons that you do. I'm glad they are helping you. That's what TAM is about.

SimplyAmorous (if I may speak for her), and I don't share this interest with you. But people like us who don't have any interest in BDSM or it's variations, DO hope that you get the fulfillment and satisfaction that you desire. The more happy people in good marriages, the better 

@Anon Pink play nice, okay?


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

I used to be an a$$hole. Controlling, overbearing, ignorant of her perspective, and deaf to her needs. Domineering.

And secretly I hated myself for it. 

When she left, and I chose to take that time to sort my sh*t out, I saw what I had been, and worked on turning it around. Not for her, for me. 

And slowly, gradually she saw me become more than I had been, and chose to come back. Emotionally. 

And physically.

Part of that, was me realising I wanted to be dominant, not domineering. To be in 'control', but with a partner that was not longer invisible to me. She matters.

And she wanted to be able to trust this new guy, so she let herself be 'submissive', to me. She chooses to be put in a 'scary' situation (restrained, spanked, flogged) knowing that her D will not hurt her, abuse her. And it allows her to 'let go'. To stop thinking, and just feel. 

It's been a lot of fun. We come up with new things to try, new 'toys' to play with. And laugh, a lot. But more importantly it's allowed us to explore a new 'dynamic' in this rebooted relationship. D/s, even as 'play', in the bedroom, requires trust, communication and respect. All things we were sorely lacking before. The way we interact in 'play' has had a massive impact on how we interact outside of the bedroom too.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Buddy400 said:


> I think that it's fairly mainstream for women to want to be dominated in the bedroom.It's pretty unusual for men to want to be dominated in the bedroom (I think this is often seen as a "kink" whereas for a woman, it's more "normal").
> 
> Many women here have a desire to be "taken".
> 
> ...


The women who desire this need to trust the man first, however, then it's acceptable.

There's a huge difference between some guy you don't know/just met being sexually aggressive and your boyfriend or husband being sexually aggressive.

Once that trust is established, then it's all systems go.

On a side note, I think a lot of men don't mind being "used", regardless of whether they trust a woman or not. To many of us, sexually aggressive women are a turn-on. If I were single and within 5 minutes of meeting a woman I found attractive, she was grabbing my junk, I wouldn't mind one bit. Do this as a man to a woman, and it's not nearly as acceptable. Hell, I can't even do that to my wife 9 x out of 10!


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

DayOne said:


> She chooses to be put in a 'scary' situation (restrained, spanked,* flogged*) knowing that* her D will not hurt her, abuse her.*


This might be semantics; but how could "flogging" not hurt someone? Are you "flogging" her with strands of cloth (so the flogging is symbolic only), or with strips of leather (ouch!!)

Spanking might just smart a little bit, not be painful.

Unless you're raising welts, or bruising her???

If your happily consenting wife doesn't mind having a sore backside from being spanked, or is okay with her skin being broken from flogging---then that's fine (inconceivable to someone like myself, but that's irrelevant).

I'm only asking out of pure mental curiosity because flogging = pain, to my understanding.

I totally understand if this is too nosy and you don't want to reply.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

DayOne said:


> *It's been a lot of fun. We come up with new things to try, new 'toys' to play with. And laugh, a lot*. But more importantly it's allowed us to explore a new 'dynamic' in this rebooted relationship. D/s, even as 'play', in the bedroom, requires trust, communication and respect. All things we were sorely lacking before. The way we interact in 'play' has had a massive impact on how we interact outside of the bedroom too.


The bolded is a big one! You have to be able to laugh. As someone trying BDSM out, just in the first stages exploring and learning, there _will_ be bloopers and some of them _will_ be embarrassing. It's important to be able to laugh it off.


----------



## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

notmyrealname4 said:


> This might be semantics; but how could "flogging" not hurt someone? Are you "flogging" her with strands of cloth (so the flogging is symbolic only), or with strips of leather (ouch!!)
> 
> Spanking might just smart a little bit, not be painful.
> 
> ...


In our case, it's actually a cotton 'flogger'. Does no actual 'impact' as such. 'Symbolic' if you like. But also important to us to be able to move towards 'impact play'. We're both from backgrounds of physical abuse, and associate being "hit" as a negative thing. So this gives us a way of being able to play without triggers. 

Same goes for spanking. Very light, no hard 'impact'. And a safe way to move through negative connotations. 

Last munch we went to had a presentation on 'percussion impact play', "A hands on workshop experience to introduce a different element to impact play sessions through the awareness of Rhythm, intention, dynamics and accentuation."

AKA...playing bongo's on your partners butt! :grin2:

Which was, and has been, a source of great amusement for both us. And, again, a way of experimenting with impact play without freaking ourselves out. And building on trust with each other.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> The bolded is a big one! You have to be able to laugh. As someone trying BDSM out, just in the first stages exploring and learning, there _will_ be bloopers and some of them _will_ be embarrassing. It's important to be able to laugh it off.


Nipple clamps. Enough said... :grin2:


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

SimplyAmorus said:


> I'm ranting ?
> 
> Whatever I said you don't like & see as a nothing more than a Rant.. chalk it up to a matter of opinion then... I offer a different perspective....this should add flavor to any forum...
> 
> Look at it this way... I am just another @jld here...one thing about you I've always noticed & appreciated....thread after heated thread....you have stood up for her , respected her right to speak how she feels...much against the grain here. (I feel the same)


Yes, it felt to me like you were ranting on a common theme that seems to really bother you, premarital sex and casual sex. In this particular instance you latched onto the casual sex theme that had been brought up with this line: 


Anon1111 said:


> the very fact that a man is committed to 1 woman is an indication that he is not "dominant."
> 
> leo dicaprio, Derek jeter, Clooney for most of his career, JFK, etc, etc, were not 1 woman men.
> 
> ...


And you responded with this



SimplyAmorus said:


> I say this with all honesty... I do NOT understand these women, what some of these posts are hitting on.... how they can suddenly be *WILD & crazy with a total stranger but not their own husbands..* this is totally foreign to me..it doesn't make sense..
> 
> It also tells me they & their husbands do NOT really know each other.. they have things "hidden"...
> 
> ...


Because what Anon1111 said above is something a lot of men here at TAM have been fed by other men at TAM all based on the alpha/beta dynamic that what's his face wrote that book MMSLP.

And it's crap, that alpha/beta stuff. Yet men soak it up. How Anon1111arrived at his conclusions about women being more comfortable being dominated by some casual hook up is pure nonsense. But it touched on the casual sex theme that is a trigger for you. And I didn't want you to tuck this nonsense away as yet another reason why women don't treat men as they should.

You seem to think your husband is beta and because of the alpha/beta nonsense here at TAM you feel the need to defend your beta husband. But I suggest to you that according to the same principals of the alpha/beta crap, the fact that you have never lost attraction to your husband must mean that the man is much more alpha than perhap you give him credit. Because according to the alpha/beta crap, if your husband was as beta as you seem to think, you would have lost attraction and respect for him, because after all women have this lizard brain thing that subconsciously dictates their sexual response and arousal.

I have never attempted to put a stop to you posting your opinions and if anyone were to pester you in an attempt to intimidate or bully you into stop posting your thoughts and opinions, as they frequently do with JLD, I would be among the first to defend your right to post.

I simply didn't want you to use an opinion that was based on conjecture and bull sh!t as yet another example of women not treating men as they should.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

I love to be dominated. No choking though!!! Love spankings, dirty talk and hair pulling. Restraints are fun, too. Haven't thought much about why I like it other than it feels great and is a huge turn on.

Maybe it's because in my every day world I'm outgoing and gregarious and I make lots of decisions at work and in my life in general, that in the bedroom I just want to let go? That said, I've never been a boss or in charge of people at work. I have a boss and i prefer to be told what to do. I never want to be charles in charge.

Interesting question.



Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Fozzy said:


> There's submission and then there's submission. It looks different for different people.
> 
> Submission for some might just be knowing that their partner has their back. Has everything under control. And being able to relax and let go because of that.
> 
> Doesn't have to be 9 1/2 weeks crawling across the floor stuff.


QFT. 

The last several weeks I have been struggling with maintaining my commitments, which are admittedly much greater than most folks. It has been overwhelming to say the least. 

This has completely screwed up the balance in my marriage emotionally. My wife wants to help, but then struggles because she sees me struggling, rather than being cool, calm, and in command. This causes her anxiety to spike.

Why am I laying all this out? Because there ain't no free lunch. True dominance starts outside the bedroom, and long before the flirty games that begin to lead you there. It takes selflessness, instinct, and effort. It is hard work.





Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> No need to rant, what was said, as is often the case around here, was TAM Talk myth.


Except that we have seen many examples.

Both your point, and the point you are counterning, are anecdotal, but that does not mean they are somehow not somewhat common.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

notmyrealname4 said:


> This might be semantics; but how could "flogging" not hurt someone? Are you "flogging" her with strands of cloth (so the flogging is symbolic only), or with strips of leather (ouch!!)
> 
> Spanking might just smart a little bit, not be painful.
> 
> ...


Being aroused allows you to absorb the pain in a different way, or being aroused prevents you from feeling the pain.

Example, I have spinal stenosis in my lumbar. Arching my back in yoga is something that has triggered pain and muscle cramps that can last for days and even weeks because once those nerves have been woken up it takes them a long time to settle back down again. Yet during sex I can arch my back a lot and during sex I feel no pain at all. Only sometimes do I feel a twinge afterward, and I've never felt the nerve pain and muscle cramps for days or weeks following. Considering I normally have sex several times a week and I normally arch my back a lot during sex I can only chalk it up to the brain not interpreting nerve signals normally during arousal. This doesn't explain why I'm not in pain afterward though so I still don't know how that works.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Being aroused allows you to absorb the pain in a different way, or being aroused prevents you from feeling the pain.


This. 

#AllAboutTheEndorphins

There's pain, and there's 'pain'. We (M'Lady and I) aren't at the level of impact play that others are, but from what I've read (and I read a lot!) the 'pain' in D/s is not what some associate with pain. 


Until you've tried it, properly, it's difficult to explain, or know the difference though.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

I pretty much am in line with @SimplyAmorous posts. My W gets more out of feeling desired from me, and I think from her POV that is the "dominance" she enjoys. I have tied her hands to the headboard several times or just held her hands down, pulled her hair (not too hard), she has definitely enjoyed, but that is really the extent we have gone. I really have no interest to go further then that nor do I have any reason to believe she does either. If I ever had to use a gag ball on her, it would be just to get her to stop talking >

I honestly am more concerned about BSOD or the dreaded RROD then I am BDSM :grin2:


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> If I ever had to use a gag ball on her, it would be just to get her to stop talking >


You'd also be reducing your available points of ingress by 1/3rd. :wink2:


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

@Anon Pink

@DayOne


Thank-you for taking the time to explain.

I think this is something people must be "pre-wired" for; like being gay, or something similar.

It doesn't hurt (or, the hurt feels good), because you are aroused.

For me, just the idea that someone would be about to hurt me, prevents arousal; more like put me in "fight-or-flight" mode.

But the idea of an ANR seems wonderfully arousing and sexy. I've never been pregnant, never breastfed, amn't especially feminine by nature---but I totally get why people would want to do that. And I don't understand why others go "eww, that's so sick and perverted".

I guess the only important thing is that you end up with someone who is on the same wavelength with you.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

notmyrealname4 said:


> @Anon Pink
> 
> @DayOne
> 
> ...


Totally understood. :smile2:


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Except that we have seen many examples.
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk



I beg to differ but this can be discussed elsewhere.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

for some, the pain aspect is akin to a runners high. akinaura falls under that category. she doesnt necessarily get turned on by the pain, but experiencing temporarily elevated levels of pain can dull the constant pain she feels from fibromyalgia. the body releases endorphins to fight the pain, and when she goes back to "status quo", she feels less pain than she did before the session. it works similarly for emotions, in the same way that exercising makes people feel better. in cases like my wifes, exercising to the point of a "runners high" becomes problematic. spankings are much easier and quicker, with much less long lasting pain as a result. 

i am not that much different in that i will physically push myself until my body is in agony. for instance, running a marathon leaves me feeling a nice warm afterglow. 

its a similar thing.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> *I honestly am more concerned about BSOD*


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

notmyrealname4 said:


>


This is my reaction whenever the BSOD comes on ...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Anon Pink said:


> And it's crap, that alpha/beta stuff. Yet men soak it up. *How Anon 1111arrived at his conclusions about women being more comfortable being dominated by some casual hook up is pure nonsense.* But it touched on the casual sex theme that is a trigger for you. And I didn't want you to tuck this nonsense away as yet another reason why women don't treat men as they should.


 but some women DO feel that way.. there are cases like this.. either their husband is not enough "this or that".. or they do not feel comfortable sharing their fantasies/ asking for what they REALLY want... 

Maybe that is the real question.. why can't they open up about it.. 

I've never been afraid to go there.. or reach for what I wanted....even try to dictate it [email protected]# ...he doesn't get mad... but yet ...he's still just NOT that sorta guy... I even bought this book yrs back... Just F**k Me! - What Women Want Men to Know About Taking Control in the Bedroom 
We'd read it together.. It's been a little frustrating... but it's surely not a deal breaker for me.. we work with what we have.. I get the whip out. that's all..








At least we're able to laugh about it.. 



> You seem to think your husband is beta and because of the alpha/beta nonsense here at TAM you feel the need to defend your beta husband. But I suggest to you that according to the same principals of the alpha/beta crap, the fact that you have never lost attraction to your husband must mean that the man is much more alpha than perhap you give him credit. Because according to the alpha/beta crap, if your husband was as beta as you seem to think, you would have lost attraction and respect for him, because after all women have this lizard brain thing that subconsciously dictates their sexual response and arousal.


 Betas are natural pleasers...actually if you want an orgasm, Betas are better at foreplay, they linger where SHE wants...some would say they make better lovers... Yes.. I don't like to see Beta's put down... this is true.. they have their pluses..but are rarely given any credit for. 



> I have never attempted to put a stop to you posting your opinions and if anyone were to pester you in an attempt to intimidate or bully you into stop posting your thoughts and opinions, as they frequently do with JLD, I would be among the first to defend your right to post.


 Nice to hear that you'll have my back Anon P . 



> I simply didn't want you to use an opinion that was based on conjecture and bull sh!t as yet another example of women not treating men as they should.


 I do think most women crave some dominance from the man though.. my husband is the breadwinner.. he carries the family.. this is his dominance.. it's really not in the bedroom.... just speaking it as it is.. I could tell some pretty funny stories trying to hog tie him into being more dominate...I believe it would take his being jacked up on testosterone to change him ..


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> .
> 
> I don't really belong on this thread, thanks anyway Buddy!


I thought your viewpoint of someone who once wanted their husband to be more dominant in the bedroom but who eventually decided that she could live without it was important.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

lostandhelpless said:


> i agree that the wild days need to stay in the past once you get married, that's just a sacrifice you have to make when you settle down. again, glad to see that other women share my same mindset.
> 
> when you get married, its time to start thinking about a career, house, family. not the next new wild thing you want to do in the bedroom. not to mention the risk of being seen in a different light when you do these things. so many women have a reputation of being a **** for simple things like a bj... just wrong.


I am so sorry for you.
My condolences.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> I beg to differ but this can be discussed elsewhere.


This would be a fun topic.

Let me know when when you start the thread!


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

UMP said:


> I am so sorry for you.
> My condolences.


This person was a troll (banned)


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> but some women DO feel that way.. there are cases like this.. either their husband is not enough "this or that".. or they do not feel comfortable sharing their fantasies/ asking for what they REALLY want...
> 
> Maybe that is the real question.. why can't they open up about it..


Can you point me to where this is confirmed? 

I think we are almost in agreement. Some women DO feel their husband is too beta to dominate, you are one of them.

I think we differ in the belief that those women who have mistakenly pigeon holed their 'beta' husbands and consequently go in search of a casual hook up to get their BDSM fix is pure myth.

I believe that any man can dominate a woman sexually. Dominant men can be made out of passive men...with faith and trust and a little pixie dust. :grin2: even your husband could dominate you sexually because the verb 'dominate' can only be applied relatively. Therefore all that has to happen is for you to be less dominant than your husband. Simple. 





> .
> 
> Betas are natural pleasers...actually if you want an orgasm, Betas are better at foreplay, they linger where SHE wants...some would say they make better lovers... Yes.. I don't like to see Beta's put down... this is true.. they have their pluses..but are rarely given any credit for.


Now see you used that word beta again. I think you feel like you have to defend your H because you've classified him as a beta which is based on what I consider BUll snot.

As passive as he may be, I think in relation to you he appears even more passive. I was told once that if I wanted my husband to be more dominant, I had to be submissive (which of course is not natural to me believe it or not :; )

Replace 'beta' with passive. Replace 'alpha' with driven, or passionate. This sets up a whole new frame in which to understand your marriage dynamic, don't you think?



> Nice to hear that you'll have my back Anon P .


Of course!



> I do think most women crave some dominance from the man though.. my husband is the breadwinner.. he carries the family.. this is his dominance.. it's really not in the bedroom.... just speaking it as it is.. I could tell some pretty funny stories trying to hog tie him into being more dominate...I believe it would take his being jacked up on testosterone to change him ..


I think most women begin to see their husbands as another child to care for. I think their husbands fail to nurture them back. I think women crave a man and not a man/child.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

For me, being dominant in bed is about being in touch with my more primal side, and generally letting loose. It's by no means a requirement, as far as impact play (or more taboo methods) goes, but I really couldn't keep a woman who didn't like sex to be a little rough, primarily for physiological reasons.

IME all women like to be dominated to a certain degree as long as they are comfortable knowing that it's just play. Never slept with one who didn't writhe and go crazy at being called a wh0re and other names, dictated to, told to say "I'm your property" etc.

Some don't like it to get physically rough though...


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> I think most women begin to see their husbands as another child to care for. I think their husbands fail to nurture them back. I think women crave a man and not a man/child.


Curious about this point. So you believe that in most relationships the Woman sees her H as a child??? Not saying that it doesn't exist (although I believe it exists on both sides), but implying that most seems a bit of a stretch

Likewise, as much as a woman may crave a man (aka not a man/child) a man may crave a woman (aka not a woman/little girl). The difference though will be what each person defines what a man and woman is (i.e. in your example, what the woman defines as a man may be different then what the man defines as a man).


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> For me, being dominant in bed is about being in touch with my more primal side, and generally letting loose. It's by no means a requirement, as far as impact play (or more taboo methods) goes, but I really couldn't keep a woman who didn't like sex to be a little rough, primarily for physiological reasons.
> 
> IME all women like to be dominated to a certain degree as long as they are comfortable knowing that it's just play. Never slept with one who didn't writhe and go crazy at being called a wh0re and other names, dictated to, told to say "I'm your property" etc.
> 
> Some don't like it to get physically rough though...


Please don't assume that your experience is the sum total of what women like!

Call me a wh0re and I'll make sure you are properly spanked for being a bad, bad, boy. And I am no one's property.

Lots of men like to be tied up and told what to do too. 

Dominating doesn't turn me on, but it does come naturally.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

wild jade said:


> Please don't assume that your experience is the sum total of what women like!
> 
> Call me a wh0re and I'll make sure you are properly spanked for being a bad, bad, boy. And I am no one's property.
> 
> ...


this made me think...

dominating doesnt necessarily turn me on either. of course, turning my wife on DOES turn me on, the sex itself is more or less the same as a good hard long distance run to me. pleasurable, invigorating, but really just a thrill. seeing my wife adore me for it does SO much more than the sex alone ever could.

and, while it comes as naturally to me nowadays as breathing, there was a time several years ago when it didnt. i had to learn to manipulate with good intentions, and not judge myself for it. 

it was only when i stopped judging myself that i was able to not judge akinaura. it was only then that i really figured out how to dominate her in a way that not only satisfied her needs, but also mine.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Kivlor said:


> For me, being dominant in bed is about being in touch with my more primal side, and generally letting loose. It's by no means a requirement, as far as impact play (or more taboo methods) goes, but I really couldn't keep a woman who didn't like sex to be a little rough, primarily for physiological reasons.
> 
> *IME* all women like to be dominated to a certain degree as long as they are comfortable knowing that it's just play. *Never slept with one who didn't writhe and go crazy at being called a wh0re and other names, dictated to, told to say "I'm your property" etc.*
> 
> Some don't like it to get physically rough though...


Your post just goes to show that like attracts like, and one's perspective shapes opinions. But please don't let your experiences fool you into generalizing.

It's been a while but I can recall when my husband tried to pull of the 'dirty wh0re' talk. I busted out laughing....couldn't help it. :laugh:


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> this made me think...
> 
> dominating doesnt necessarily turn me on either. of course, turning my wife on DOES turn me on, the sex itself is more or less the same as a good hard long distance run to me. pleasurable, invigorating, but really just a thrill. seeing my wife adore me for it does SO much more than the sex alone ever could.
> 
> ...


I don't judge. But I also don't manipulate either. Domination doesn't mean you have to be unethical or underhanded. Or even controlling, for that matter.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

notmyrealname4 said:


> I think this is something people must be "pre-wired" for; like being gay, or something similar.


Based on personal experience, I am 100% in agreement with you here. 

My baby sister and I were raised in the same household, from the same parents. Neither of us has been sexually assaulted or suffered abuse, and for the most part, we share the same FOO issues. Yet she's into sexual domination (hardcore BDSM, pain for pleasure, rough sex) and I'm...not. She's wired for it and I'm not.

The one thing we have in common is a desire for a partner with lots of _self-control_.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

wild jade said:


> I don't judge. But I also don't manipulate either. Domination doesn't mean you have to be unethical or underhanded. Or even controlling, for that matter.


manipulation carries a negative context for most. it doesn't for me. 

i see it everywhere in practically every interaction between people. people are ALWAYS looking for something through their interactions with other people.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Buddy400 said:


> I thought your viewpoint of someone who once wanted their husband to be more dominant in the bedroom but who eventually decided that she could live without it was important.


 I generally fight pretty hard to get my way...I bet you can believe that one...

I just recognized this was more of a WANT over a NEED...not every fantasy we have gets lived out.. but we can dream...his not shutting me out , even if he's struggled to live up to my expectations meant a great deal to me. ...Now if I didn't get my orgasm.... well ...



> *Anon Pink said* : I believe that any man can dominate a woman sexually. Dominant men can be made out of passive men...with faith and trust and a little pixie dust. even your husband could dominate you sexually because the verb 'dominate' can only be applied relatively. Therefore all that has to happen is for you to be less dominant than your husband. Simple.


 If I believe what you are saying here.. I will find him defective and start harping on something being wrong with him > WHY he can't do it.. also.. what you said would mean we don't have enough trust.. or faith.. I simply do not agree that's the case..

Yes I like the exchange of *passive* for Him.. and *Passionate *& *Driven* for me.. that fits.. if I was less dominate.. I really don't feel much of anything would have changed between us.. he'd simply remain the love maker he has always been and we'd never have tried many of the adventurous things we have in the last 8 yrs..

And I realize just saying this makes him sound boring as hell... I don't care.. we're still an awesome match... we orgasm together 95% of the time.. I think this is primary why I just never cared to try other stuff.. I was happy / he was happy !


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

wild jade said:


> Please don't assume that your experience is the sum total of what women like!
> 
> Call me a wh0re and I'll make sure you are properly spanked for being a bad, bad, boy. And I am no one's property.
> 
> ...


I think it's important to remember that a lot of this is on a sliding scale. Different people like different levels of it, which is why I tossed in some qualifiers in my statement.

I've been with plenty of girls who get a little rough over being dominated, the resistance is part of the fun. Always ends in crazy fun times for both.

If your guy lets you spank him for it, he's not trying to lead properly, and of course that would lead to it being a turn off. I would only reply that with a properly dominant man, whom you are comfortable with, this will play out differently.



Lila said:


> Your post just goes to show that like attracts like, and one's perspective shapes opinions. But please don't let your experiences fool you into generalizing.
> 
> It's been a while but I can recall when my husband tried to pull of the 'dirty wh0re' talk. I busted out laughing....couldn't help it. :laugh:


I'll just reply that he's doing it wrong. If it's implemented at the wrong time, or in the wrong way, it's not going to work, and comes off laughable. A guy who just calls a girl a wh0re randomly, or just kind of inserts it into the situation isn't implementing this kind of stuff properly isn't going to turn you on.

I'll also say that I personally have no need to call a girl any of these things, or dictate etc. It's not that important to me. But experience has taught me that it is effective. Which is all that matters.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> If your guy lets you spank him for it, he's not trying to lead properly, and of course that would lead to it being a turn off. I would only reply that with a properly dominant man, whom you are comfortable with, this will play out differently.


Pfffffffft. Sorry, dude. This only proves you don't know me, and have a very limited view of women.

ETA: And men, for that matter. There are an awful lot of killer instinct businessmen that just want to be tied up and spanked for being naughty. They want a mistress to put a collar on them and order them around like servants and to be told they are just property.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> manipulation carries a negative context for most. it doesn't for me.
> 
> i see it everywhere in practically every interaction between people. people are ALWAYS looking for something through their interactions with other people.


I am sorry for you. That seems to me to be a very sad way to experience the world


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Yes, it felt to me like you were ranting on a common theme that seems to really bother you, premarital sex and casual sex. In this particular instance you latched onto the casual sex theme that had been brought up with this line:
> 
> 
> And you responded with this
> ...


I guess I don't really care, but this is a mischaracterization of my point.

my point, to repeat it again, was that many women like the fantasy of domination but not the reality.

the fantasy is easier to imagine with a man who is not familiar to them vs their husbands.

their husbands are reality.

hence the popularity of romance novels like 50 Shades. what percentage of 50 Shades readers do you think are actually doing that stuff in real life? 

again, fantasy vs reality

now, when it comes times to enact the fantasy with a stranger, the average woman is going to take a pass again. because the stranger is almost never mr ripped billionaire. and also, reality is more scary than fantasy.

I don't think any of this has anything to do with deviousness of women. it's just natural and not a big deal at all.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

wild jade said:


> Pfffffffft. Sorry, dude. This only proves you don't know me, and have a very limited view of women.


I have a very limited view of humans. Because we are quite limited creatures.

I don't know you. I don't pretend to know you. I can only _guess_ that you are not likely to be the statistical outlier. You could be. But I'd not bet on it. 

There's a lot of social stigma among people regarding this topic. Biology on the other hand doesn't view things that way...


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Kivlor said:


> I'll just reply that he's doing it wrong. If it's implemented at the wrong time, or in the wrong way, it's not going to work, and comes off laughable. A guy who just calls a girl a wh0re randomly, or just kind of inserts it into the situation isn't implementing this kind of stuff properly isn't going to turn you on.


I find it funny that you think all women are the same. I find it even funnier that when I tell you exactly how I feel, your response is to tell me "he's doing it wrong". I'm going to take a WAG and say that your next objection is going to be 'you're broken' 

Remember.....perspective is colored by experience. Yours is yours. Mine is mine.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Anon Pink said:


> Can you point me to where this is confirmed?


 I do not save every thread, post or story here.. but to suggest that such women don't exist or have never gotten bored / frustrated with their husbands cause they wanted MORE in the bedroom.. and go let loose with a stranger... Yes it can happen...

Actually I DO know of a woman (well through the net) - she was very similar to me, young 40's at the time.. found her on a different forum...she opened up to me about it.. spilling it all.. she used some young stud... once she got it out of her system she felt liberated somehow.. 

Why did she share this will me.. maybe to get it off her conscience to someone.. I don't know.. It was eye opening to me on the one hand...yet I felt bad for her husband too.. (I doubt he'll ever know what she did)...

I found her as she was one of those who had that crazy sex drive increase.. I am thankful I calmed my jets to NOT go do something like that..Though it sounds her husband was lacking in some other areas too.. like the emotional. ..so she was struggling in 2 areas.. Me.. it was just 1 area. 



> I think most women begin to see their husbands as another child to care for. I think their husbands fail to nurture them back. I think women crave a man and not a man/child.


 I guess without explaining what this Dominance IS.. what one may be envisioning might not be what I am.. 

I mean my husband can take a lead.. it's just that he is Love maker.. not a Guy who is going to grab my hair, for instance.... (Oh we tried that.. I would be saying.. "Harder !...harder! .. harder!... RIP IT OUT!!").... he'd always think he's hurting me.. I've gotten a little mad in the bedroom near demanding him to be more of a "Son of a B*****":.. I'd catch myself realizing.. How ridiculous IS THIS.. if we couldn't laugh about this sh**.. we'd be in bad shape..


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> I have a very limited view of humans. Because we are quite limited creatures.
> 
> I don't know you. I don't pretend to know you. I can only _guess_ that you are not likely to be the statistical outlier. You could be. But I'd not bet on it.
> 
> There's a lot of social stigma among people regarding this topic. Biology on the other hand doesn't view things that way...


I'm not talking about statistical outliers. Speaking of social stigma, you seem to be going out of your way to stigmatize the sexual preferences on an awful lot of people simply by denying that things can or should happen differently than what you personally like and experience.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I don't know where our OP has gone but reading the thread has sure been interesting. I've already declared my power position as being submissive. But that isn't the whole story. Mrs. Nail was the oldest to 4 rambunctious brothers. They still tend to defer to her. She knows how to keep a man in line. But that was not what she wanted in a partner. Fortunately for me she saw the resistance I give as enough of a dominant trait to interest her. She could never have been with a serious full time dominant as she has CSA. I think of her as a sexually reluctant dominant. In other words she will stop a scene and say are you alright? do you need more? and so on. And getting her started is tricky too. 

Like many people who are dominant in their day jobs she likes on occasion to be submissive in bed. And even when being submissive she has many hard limits. So I'm an even more cautious and reluctant Dominant. I really am going somewhere with all of this background. Sometimes there are mistakes. Sometimes they can be embarrassing or funny.

One time when I was being Dominant I pushed her onto the bed. I was thinking nice soft place to land. She lay there with a very startled disoriented look on her face. When I asked what was wrong she just explained that her vertigo got her when falling. Not upset just needed to reset before moving on.

Once during a spanking session (me sub) She decided to take it up a notch and got out my heavy belt. I loved it. She stopped quite quickly and much later explained that it triggered a childhood flashback. 

Usually she likes me to play with and tug her hair. One day while she was giving me a hand she had me take her hair more firmly and hold her in place. Well being the person I am, I did my best to please, which she really liked right up to the point when she got a load in the face. 

Open communication, and the willingness to laugh off mistakes are pretty important in holding a relationship. More so when playing edgy games.


----------



## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Lila said:


> I find it funny that you think all women are the same. I find it even funnier that when I tell you exactly how I feel, your response is to tell me "he's doing it wrong". I'm going to take a WAG and say that your next objection is going to be 'you're broken'
> 
> Remember.....perspective is colored by experience. Yours is yours. Mine is mine.


Actually, no I wouldn't accuse you of being broken. I was offering that it's quite possible your H did it wrong. But I don't think we need to go into the details. 

I would merely reply with my last post to WJ. You may be that way. Odds aren't in favor of it; and I'd not bet on it. Completely possible though.

ETA: Also, want to add that my posts shouldn't be misconstrued to state that all women want a dominant man in bed at all times, but that most (if not all) would certainly enjoy it from time to time. Some women want it all the time, but I'd argue that they're outliers as well.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> Actually, no I wouldn't accuse you of being broken. I was offering that it's quite possible your H did it wrong. But I don't think we need to go into the details.
> 
> I would merely reply with my last post to WJ. You may be that way. Odds aren't in favor of it; and I'd not bet on it. Completely possible though.
> 
> ETA: Also, want to add that my posts shouldn't be misconstrued to state that all women want a dominant man in bed at all times, but that most (if not all) would certainly enjoy it from time to time. Some women want it all the time, but I'd argue that they're outliers as well.


Uh huh. Did you know that some 50% of men fantasize about sexual submission -- and not many more than that fantasize about dominance?

Kinky Sex Survey Says: You're Not as Deviant as You Think - Hit & Run : Reason.com

That's just one article. Reality is that some 30 to 50 per cent of men are into sexual submission. Not exactly outliers.

So why create so much negative stigma around it? Just because it's not what you want or can handle?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

wild jade said:


> I am sorry for you. That seems to me to be a very sad way to experience the world


really? that is interesting that you would find this sad. personally, i get a lot of joy out of finding out what it is that people want. its a fascinating thing to watch: people looking for ways to get their needs met, protect themselves, etc. 

one past time that really brings me joy is figuring out what it is that people actually want, and seeing if what they are doing is getting them what they really want. often, people arent even sure of what they want, and are even less aware of effective ways of getting it.

i find it to be an extremely beautiful and liberating way to see the world. 

take this for instance: most people might see an angry woman who is screaming at her husband as being a b!tch. usually, i will see the same woman and i will see the fear behind it, and the need. and the fact that she doesnt really know exactly how to get what she wants. 
she doesnt know how to manipulate her environment, or influence it if you prefer the word, in order to get what she really wants. 

its a fine way to live! :smile2:


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

EllisRedding said:


> In general, since my W is more responsive desire, this requires me to be in charge more. Otherwise, IDK, some times I like to be in charge, other times I rather sit back and let my wife run the show. Maybe it is hormonal, maybe it is the burrito I ate 2 hours before, who knows...


Quick update, just ate a burrito for lunch. I will report back tomorrow to see if this had any impact on my dominance when I get home tonight >

Then again, it was our wedding anniversary yesterday, so after the fireworks I may be running on empty tonight!


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

wild jade said:


> I'm not talking about statistical outliers. Speaking of social stigma, you seem to be going out of your way to stigmatize the sexual preferences on an awful lot of people simply by denying that things can or should happen differently than what you personally like and experience.


This is my impression as well. 

Why try to put people in boxes? 

If dominance is your thing, then regardless of your sex by golly, go out there an dominate the [email protected] out of your man/woman. If submission is your thing, go out there and submit till the cows come home. If neither floats your boat, then go FIND the thing that does and enjoy the he!! out of it with your partner. As long as it's consensual and everyone is ENJOYING it, then who am I to tell you're 'not the norm'.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Lila said:


> This is my impression as well.
> 
> Why try to put people in boxes?
> 
> .


We do this frequently at work.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Quick update, just ate a burrito for lunch. I will report back tomorrow to see if this had any impact on my dominance when I get home tonight >
> 
> Then again, it was our wedding anniversary yesterday, so after the fireworks I may be running on empty tonight!


You can't just say "burrito" without details and context. What kind of burrito? How big? Did you nibble it delicately? Knife and fork? Ghengis Khan style?

How you eat your burrito is a sign of your overall masculinity and virility. And what's in it is just as important. Simple bean & cheese indicates a more vanilla role in the bedroom whereas machaca or a good spicy chorizo says "damn the torpedoes!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Most importantly (for those who will be stuck with you), black beans or...cough...refried?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

wild jade said:


> I am sorry for you. That seems to me to be a very sad way to experience the world


It's called reality.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

john117 said:


> It's called reality.


thats pretty much it. 

i really dont have any issues with it. i love reality. even when it seems to suck.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> Quick update, just ate a burrito for lunch. I will report back tomorrow to see if this had any impact on my dominance when I get home tonight >
> 
> Then again, it was our wedding anniversary yesterday, so after the fireworks I may be running on empty tonight!


Mmmm. Burritos. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Fozzy said:


> You can't just say "burrito" without details and context. What kind of burrito? How big? Did you nibble it delicately? Knife and fork? Ghengis Khan style?
> 
> How you eat your burrito is a sign of your overall masculinity and virility. And what's in it is just as important. Simple bean & cheese indicates a more vanilla role in the bedroom whereas machaca or a good spicy chorizo says "damn the torpedoes!"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I close the door to my office, strip down to my boxers, and with my bare hands I dominate the burrito (incredibly manly).



farsidejunky said:


> Most importantly (for those who will be stuck with you), black beans or...cough...refried?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


On the flip side, I only got a chicken/rice/cheese burrito, so very plain  Not sure my W would appreciate the extra "horsepower" if I went spicy, I'd look like a balloon when you let the air out lol.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

I'm just popping in to say that I am still here & reading, just haven't had a chance to respond. Chasing kids around and whatnot.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

wild jade said:


> I'm not talking about statistical outliers. Speaking of social stigma, you seem to be going out of your way to stigmatize the sexual preferences on an awful lot of people simply by denying that things can or should happen differently than what you personally like and experience.





> Uh huh. Did you know that some 50% of men fantasize about sexual submission -- and not many more than that fantasize about dominance?
> 
> Kinky Sex Survey Says: You're Not as Deviant as You Think - Hit & Run : Reason.com
> 
> ...


I haven't discussed men, have I? Note that I've not even remotely mentioned what men desire once. 

What exactly have I stigmatized? Nothing. I've offered no moralizing. In fact, I think moralizing is something to be avoided in a thread like this. This is a discussion of taste, not right and wrong.

As far as my preferences, I actually recognize that what I like and what most women like aren't even remotely related. There's no projection of my desires here, they aren't going to be fulfilled outside of an extreme deviancy; there is some generalizing about the things that women find erotic.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Curious about this point. So you believe that in most relationships the Woman sees her H as a child??? Not saying that it doesn't exist (although I believe it exists on both sides), but implying that most seems a bit of a stretch
> 
> Likewise, as much as a woman may crave a man (aka not a man/child) a man may crave a woman (aka not a woman/little girl). The difference though will be what each person defines what a man and woman is (i.e. in your example, what the woman defines as a man may be different then what the man defines as a man).



"Most women" was wording I duplicated in response to SA's post in which she said this:



SimplyAmorus said:


> I do think most women crave some dominance from the man though.


Getting back to the point you wanted to discuss about women 'wanting a dominant man' as SA said. My counter point was that once dominance is described and understood I believe what those women were looking for was a man who made her feel like a woman. Many women feel like they're more a mommy to their husbands (excluding sex) than wife to their husbands. And this is the theme that JLD puts forth. That men have to stop allowing their wives to be their mommy and they do that by taking more responsibility for themselves and their family.

Yes EllisRedding, each of us defines what a man is, what a dominant man is, what a woman is, what a submissive woman is. I agree. I refer to what I've seen in SIM and I think @MEM11363 will agree because I know he has seen it too, is that when a woman is the one setting the tone and the emotion in the marriage, when she is the one who has to regulate her emotions because her husband can't tolerate her being irrational or upset or anxious because he is the one who is anxious and in need of reassurance, she comes to see him as if she is the mommy soothing him and reassuring him. When a woman spends too much time doing this, and too much time is defined by her and her alone, she loses interest in her husband sexually. That's when she pines for the book boyfriend who isn't affected by the emotional storm brewing in her heart.





SimplyAmorous said:


> I generally fight pretty hard to get my way...I bet you can believe that one...
> 
> I just recognized this was more of a WANT over a NEED...not every fantasy we have gets lived out.. but we can dream...his not shutting me out , even if he's struggled to live up to my expectations meant a great deal to me. ...Now if I didn't get my orgasm.... well ...


Now see, your H didn't shut you out and pull away and pout for a month because he couldn't give you what you wanted, more rough sex, and that's a huge characteristic of a dominant man. "I know you're upset but I'm still here holding your hand and letting you vent and I still love you even though I feel badly that I can give you this." Swoon worthy!



SimplyAmorus said:


> If I believe what you are saying here.. I will find him defective and start harping on something being wrong with him > WHY he can't do it.. also.. what you said would mean we don't have enough trust.. or faith.. I simply do not agree that's the case..
> 
> Yes I like the exchange of *passive* for Him.. and *Passionate *& *Driven* for me.. that fits.. if I was less dominate.. I really don't feel much of anything would have changed between us.. he'd simply remain the love maker he has always been and we'd never have tried many of the adventurous things we have in the last 8 yrs..
> 
> And I realize just saying this makes him sound boring as hell... I don't care.. we're still an awesome match... we orgasm together 95% of the time.. I think this is primary why I just never cared to try other stuff.. I was happy / he was happy !


As I said, your H shows some traits of a dominant man. He just can't do rough sex with his wife...and that's okay. 







Anon1111 said:


> I guess I don't really care, but this is a mischaracterization of my point.
> 
> my point, to repeat it again, was that many women like the fantasy of domination but not the reality.
> 
> ...


1. I totally agree that many women, IMO, like the fantasy of domination. But let's be clear that BDSM stands for bondage, which many women won't do, domination which a lot of women dig, sadism which few women enjoy, and masochism which few women enjoy. So dominant men are in demand but men who wish to tie her up and spank her ass are not so in demand.

2. Can't see her husband in that role because she feels like his mommy too often. 

3. As a smut aficionado allow me to burst the bubble about 50 shades. The books were barely labeled as BDSM. The reality of the story is that he spanked her maybe 3 times. The dude wasn't a sadist, he was a control freak. A control freak needs control because they are anxious. An anxious man is not a dominant man. I read the books and was disappointed. Those fantasy "billionaire dominant" books are not my bag baby. Can't stand them! They very rarely have anything I find erotic. Oddly enough I thought the movie 50 shades was more erotic than the books. The music was outstanding and that girl was just adorable! The dude who played Christian Grey came off as gay to me, though I've recently found out he is married with kids. Anyway he was. Poor choice as an actor for that role.

4. Again we agree, women might have a very active inner fantasy life but reality is very scary so few women would go there.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> "Most women" was wording I duplicated in response to SA's post in which she said this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have to admit that even though I detest that movie, I came away as a fan of The Weeknd. That dude has an awesome voice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

@john117


Eeyore rules!


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

To many posts to multiquote!

I agree with @Lila that being submissive or dominant is no doubt something in your DNA that you're born with. 

I disagree with @Kivlor that all women will dig it if you do it right and @Anon Pink that any man can learn to be dominant in bed (or to be more specific that all men may not want to be dominant in bed).

As to @SimplyAmorous, betas and alphas, she has a great marriage and plenty of great sex. She seems to respect her husband plenty. If her desire for sexual dominance doesn't exactly match up with his desire or ability to satisfy some of her fantasies, she's happy to make that trade-off since there is so much else about her husband that she's thrilled with. They are called fantasies after all.

When it comes to women doing things with their affair partner or previous lovers (or even their husband earlier in their relationship) that they won't do with their husband, I think we've seen plenty of stories on TAM like that. There could be multiple reasons, but @Anon1111 probably said it best. 

The problem is when not having your fantasies fulfilled make you unhappy in your marriage (especially if you're not willing to try them out with your husband). 

I do think that a lot of women have are in the same boat as @PatricaLee in having this conflict between what their "lizard brain" wants and their rational brain approves of. I don't mean this as saying that only women have "lizard brains", but on this topic I think the conflict is greater for women and a bigger problem. A woman who desires this but whose "rational brain" won't allow her to try is going to be pretty sexually constipated. I agree with AP that women need to "own what they want". 

As far as "dominant" and "dominant in the bedroom" go, they aren't necessarily the same. A guy could be dominant in the bedroom just because he's someone who just wants what he wants and doesn't particularly care about his partner. I imagine that this could be initially hot for a woman but pretty tiresome after a while. I know that the idea usually is that the guy is only dominant in the bedroom, not outside of it. But it seems to be that a guy who easily dominates in the bedroom would have a hard time not dominating when it comes to finances, family decisions, etc. And, to quote Pulp Fiction, "isn't it more exiting if you don't have permission"?

Personally, I have no interest in being dominant in the bedroom (spanking, hair pulling, physical domination, degrading words). It would turn me off. If I were in the market, I have to consider this as a negative (like being bald) that's hopefully outweighed by my other attributes. I'm not in the market, and wouldn't be interested in being in the market if my wife suddenly croaked, so it's of no practical importance to me. I will, however, make sure my sons have a more accurate view of how the world works than I had growing up.

By the way, I was mentioning to my wife once about how TAM says that chicks dig dominant guys and she said "Like You". So I guess I'm cool on the dominant (non-bedroom) front.

Burrito @EllisRedding


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> If I believe what you are saying here.. I will find him defective and start harping on something being wrong with him > WHY he can't do it.. also.. what you said would mean we don't have enough trust.. or faith.. I simply do not agree that's the case..
> 
> !


Faith and Trust and Pixie Dust

Faith: he has to have faith in himself AND faith in you that you won't let him get too close to the line.

As an example, I had to patch a hole in the deep end of our pool. I needed to hold the patch firmly on the hole for 30 seconds but I couldn't keep my body swimming downward in order to keep pressure on the patch. I asked my H to use the vacuum telescope pole and firmly hold me down under water in the deep end. He could not do it. He kept releasing the pressure on the pole because he wasn't sure I was okay. Meanwhile I'm getting so irritated because how many damn times do I have to reassure him I'm fine! Safe Word! I got a little floaty toy and said when I release the floaty toy, let me up but not a second sooner! 

The floaty toy was the safe word and he had faith that the safe word would keep him from harming his wife.

Trust: you have to trust him. You have to trust him enough that you know he won't cross the line. He has to trust you that you know where your line is.

Pixie Dust: Erotic imagination; willing to try. Willing to learn. Willing to make mistakes and keep trying.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Faith and Trust and Pixie Dust
> 
> Faith: he has to have faith in himself AND faith in you that you won't let him get too close to the line.
> 
> ...


Cool story.

I'm sure trust is needed dominate / be dominated.

But I don't think it necessarily follows that everyone who has trust will necessarily feel a desire to dominate / be dominated.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

@Buddy400

Please retire the term Lizzard brain. It is insulting and inaccurate.

I do not think you grasp what a dominant lover is. Dominant lover damn well better have a care, or 10, about their lovers pleasure. If they do not, they are not dominant lovers,they are assh0les who need THEIR bottom spanked! Hair pulling and spanking (elements of sadism/masochism) are enjoyed by few women while name calling (elements of humiliation) are enjoyed by even fewer women and might be part of domination for some, but not for all. 

As far as women putting out for their AP but not their husbands....do not fall into the trap that TAM is a microcosm of society at large. Outliers rule here at TAM. Also, maybe their AP's asked in a sexy way while their husbands pouted about it. Men, here at TAM, are loathe to admit they aren't all that in the sack.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> I refer to what I've seen in SIM and I think @MEM11363 will agree because I know he has seen it too, is that when a woman is the one setting the tone and the emotion in the marriage, when she is the one who has to regulate her emotions because her husband can't tolerate her being irrational or upset or anxious because he is the one who is anxious and in need of reassurance, she comes to see him as if she is the mommy soothing him and reassuring him. When a woman spends too much time doing this, and too much time is defined by her and her alone, she loses interest in her husband sexually. That's when she pines for the book boyfriend who isn't affected by the emotional storm brewing in her heart.


Great post, much better that the previous ones.

Here's the thing. About the quoted above, I agree that his is often (do I dare say usually?) the case. I am most certainly my wife's emotional rock and that is probably what she needs most from me.

But I don't think this is well know by all that many men or women.

What about all the people telling guys that they need to be more emotional?

And do we really want it to get around that women have trouble regulating their emotion storms, or that they are sometimes irrational and anxious? 

I'd like to see women concede that they often need their men to be their emotional rocks and let guys in on the secret.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Duplicate post


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> really? that is interesting that you would find this sad. personally, i get a lot of joy out of finding out what it is that people want. its a fascinating thing to watch: people looking for ways to get their needs met, protect themselves, etc.
> 
> one past time that really brings me joy is figuring out what it is that people actually want, and seeing if what they are doing is getting them what they really want. often, people arent even sure of what they want, and are even less aware of effective ways of getting it.
> 
> ...


Maybe I misinterpreted what you were saying. I took it to mean that everyone has an agenda that they were trying to achieve in their social interactions.

Me? If I have an agenda, I will let you know. Meanwhile, I think it quite possible to interact without any goals or attempt to milk the situation for personal benefit. Sometimes we are just relating without trying to advance a personal cause. At least IMHO.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> @Buddy400
> 
> Please retire the term Lizzard brain. It is insulting and inaccurate.


I'm guessing that "lizzard brain" has some negative associations?

I actually paused and tried to think of some other word to describe emotions driven from below the conscious layer of the brain that are outside the control of rational thought. I would suspect that these are largely driven by the same systems that generate the fight or flight response.

What's a more socially acceptable name for this?


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I like to be dominated to a certain degree. 

If my husband says "suck my **** baby" I'm gonna go down on him with wild abandon. If he says "suck my **** b*tch" then no, ain't gonna happen. 

I love when we do it doggy style and he smacks my a$$. Hair pulling is good. A hand around my neck with only a little pressure is good.

Come in the bedroom and throw me on the bed and take it and tell me exactly how you want me to do it. YES PLEASE! 

He'll sometimes call me a dirty girl. Or say "get nasty". Sometimes he'll say "tell me you want my c*m". All sexy. 

I'll sometimes say "f*** that p****" but that's about as demanding as I get. Or I'll say "give me that big c*ck DEEP in that p****" But I'm kind of shy to say too much more than that.

I've been begging him to tie me up and tease the hell out of me for years but he won't do it. 

I like sex to feel like he's in charge and demanding what he wants, but respectfully if that makes sense. I don't like all out name calling like b*tch or sl*t or wh*re or anything like that. He did it one time (I think he was TRYING to be sexy, but I didn't like it and neither did he.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> I haven't discussed men, have I? Note that I've not even remotely mentioned what men desire once.
> 
> What exactly have I stigmatized? Nothing. I've offered no moralizing. In fact, I think moralizing is something to be avoided in a thread like this. This is a discussion of taste, not right and wrong.
> 
> As far as my preferences, I actually recognize that what I like and what most women like aren't even remotely related. There's no projection of my desires here, they aren't going to be fulfilled outside of an extreme deviancy; there is some generalizing about the things that women find erotic.


You've stigmatized by suggesting that only your view of men as dominant and women submissive is normal. Anything that deviates from your prescritption is labeled as outliers and against biology.

Which is simply not true. There are lots of women who are into being dominant and lots of men into being submissive. Close to 50% in fact. These people too are perfectly normal, and are not denying their biology or their nature. They are simply enjoying their sexuality like everyone else.

That you can only find women who want to be submissive to you tells me that this is what actually attracts you to certain women. If you disagree or find it unnatural, perhaps you're the one who needs to be more honest about your own sexuality? 

Remember, there is no shame, and we are all better off being honest about who we are and what turns us on.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Hair pulling and spanking (elements of sadism/masochism) are enjoyed by few women while name calling (elements of humiliation) are enjoyed by even fewer women and might be part of domination for some, but not for all.


Actually, I was only naming specifics to avoid including the BDSM things you had mentioned earlier as being unrepresentative of domination.

I've sure heard a lot of talk about spanking, hair pulling and manual restraint in reference to "dominant in the bedroom". I was pretty sure we were talking about dominant as in rough sex as (roughly) mentioned in the OP.

Are we just going to soften up the definition so much that it just means "good lover"?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

wild jade said:


> Maybe I misinterpreted what you were saying. I took it to mean that everyone has an agenda that they were trying to achieve in their social interactions.
> 
> Me? If I have an agenda, I will let you know. Meanwhile, I think it quite possible to interact without any goals or attempt to milk the situation for personal benefit. Sometimes we are just relating without trying to advance a personal cause. At least IMHO.


you think so? can you communicating without a goal or purpose? of any kind? 

i you find a way to do it, i would love to know.
i often watch myself interacting with people, and even that has a purpose. it always did, even before i acknowledged it.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Anon Pink said:


> 3. As a smut aficionado allow me to burst the bubble about 50 shades. The books were barely labeled as BDSM. The reality of the story is that he spanked her maybe 3 times. The dude wasn't a sadist, he was a control freak. A control freak needs control because they are anxious. An anxious man is not a dominant man. I read the books and was disappointed. Those fantasy "billionaire dominant" books are not my bag baby. Can't stand them! They very rarely have anything I find erotic. Oddly enough I thought the movie 50 shades was more erotic than the books. The music was outstanding and that girl was just adorable! The dude who played Christian Grey came off as gay to me, though I've recently found out he is married with kids. Anyway he was. Poor choice as an actor for that role.



50 Shades was just a poorly written description of domestic violence. And perpetrators of domestic violence are not dominant at all. They do it because they feel so powerless and out of control, and are trying desperately to assert themselves.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> you think so? can you communicating without a goal or purpose? of any kind?
> 
> i you find a way to do it, i would love to know.
> i often watch myself interacting with people, and even that has a purpose. it always did, even before i acknowledged it.


Maybe we need to clarify terms? Most often I probably have some purpose to communication, but I don't necessarily want anything from that person. I may be communicating just because I have observed something and they happen to be nearby, or because I am happy to see them and enjoy their company. Or because I feel like sharing a story. 

I certainly don't assume that people want something from me because they are talking to me. 

Not everything is about trying to influence or manipulate my environment is all I'm trying to say.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

wild jade said:


> 50 Shades was just a poorly written description of domestic violence. And perpetrators of domestic violence are not dominant at all. They do it because they feel so powerless and out of control, and are trying desperately to assert themselves.


Jade honey, it's clear you didn't actually read it because it, in no way what so ever, represented domestic violence.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> Anon Pink said:
> 
> 
> > @Buddy400
> ...


In neuroscience it's called the limbic system.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Anon Pink said:


> Jade honey, it's clear you didn't actually read it because it, in no way what so ever, represented domestic violence.


Actually, if you compare it against the signs of domestic violence, you will see that it contains every single one.

But for some reason we are able to overlook this. :scratchhead:


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Buddy400 said:


> Great post, much better that the previous ones.
> 
> Here's the thing. About the quoted above, I agree that his is often (do I dare say usually?) the case. I am most certainly my wife's emotional rock and that is probably what she needs most from me.
> 
> ...



I don't know enough statistically to agree or disagree. I know women are like cats. Figuring one out means you have figured ONE out. I can only speak for myself and my like minded friends. We don't want our husbands to need or require our emotional strength.

Did you ever see Steel Magnolia's with Sally Field, Shirly McLain, Dolly Parton, and Julia Roberts? If you want to understand the nuance of emotionally strong women and emotionally absent men, see that movie.

Sensitive v Emotional being sensitive means you sense the feelings and emotions in yourself as well as others. A person can be sensitive and still be strong emotionally.

Emotionally constipated is how a lot of women view men. My H included. He didn't know how to identify his own emotions and he relied on me to do that for him. Many men are like that. Women mistake them as being strong. Unflappable, rock steady, but the reality is that he has a disconnect between his feelings and emotions and his ability to express. After time passes, he no longer seems rock steady, just the emotional range of a rock. That's not a dominant man, that's a deadened man.




Buddy400 said:


> I'm guessing that "lizzard brain" has some negative associations?
> 
> I actually paused and tried to think of some other word to describe emotions driven from below the conscious layer of the brain that are outside the control of rational thought. I would suspect that these are largely driven by the same systems that generate the fight or flight response.
> 
> What's a more socially acceptable name for this?


What you're describing is the classic Id. The base instinct part of the brain. Unfiltered, uncensored, selfish and instinctual.

More to the point, no one wants to have their attractions classified in such a derogatory way as to be base. 

If we want women to own their desires we must stop naming those desires as lizard-like, or base instinct. 

You could say secretly desire, or hidden lust, or naughty thinking. Much more salacious don't you think?




Buddy400 said:


> Actually, I was only naming specifics to avoid including the BDSM things you had mentioned earlier as being unrepresentative of domination.
> 
> I've sure heard a lot of talk about spanking, hair pulling and manual restraint in reference to "dominant in the bedroom". I was pretty sure we were talking about dominant as in rough sex as (roughly) mentioned in the OP.
> 
> Are we just going to soften up the definition so much that it just means "good lover"?


As far as I'm concerned a good lover is dominant in bed. What does that really mean? I think it really means so passionate that you are completely driven by desire and not censoring or second guessing or hesitating. Both men and women should demonstrate this in bed, btw. But women seem to focus on this uncontrollable passion of the dominant lover without recognizing he's just a good lover.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

wild jade said:


> Actually, if you compare it against the signs of domestic violence, you will see that it contains every single one.
> 
> But for some reason we are able to overlook this. :scratchhead:


Nope it's missing several classic signs. Off the top of my head is isolating the victim from her emotional support network.

A control freak is not automatically an abuser. But abusers are almost always control freaks, to that person they need to control.

Okay I googled the signs


> Warning Signs and Red Flags
> 
> 
> Telling you that you can never do anything right
> ...


Lol, none of these were in those books. Not ONE!


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Anon Pink said:


> Nope it's missing several classic signs. Off the top of my head is isolating the victim from her emotional support network.
> 
> A control freak is not automatically an abuser. But abusers are almost always control freaks, to that person they need to control.
> 
> ...


Uh huh. So why is she afraid of angering Christian by going to see her friend's photography exhibit? Or why does she have to deal with his anger over visiting her own mother? In what kind of relationship is it a problem to visit one's own mother?

Why is she afraid to call someone? Because she will be punished.

Why does she agree to sex acts she is not interested in? To protect herself from his anger.

She is careful how much food she will put on her plate to manage his temper for pete's sake.

Would you like me to go on?


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Fozzy said:


> Patricia, I took a look through your original thread. How is the counseling going? I can understand why you are having some trust issues. Is he taking your point of view seriously?


Thank you for asking. Counselling is getting progressively better. I am only doing individual counselling at the moment.

It's a lot of ups and downs right now. I have also started an anti-depressant, so I am hoping that will sort out other issues I have been trying to deal with by myself.

Husband is dealing with things well. We're both trying our best to work through this!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Anon Pink said:


> Faith and Trust and Pixie Dust
> 
> Faith: he has to have faith in himself AND faith in you that you won't let him get too close to the line.
> 
> ...


I don't want to keep harping on WHY he can't do it.. all I know is this.. If I get my hopes up for this again & again... and he fails again & again...it's not a good thing..

It only makes him feel like *a failure*, that he can't satisfy me...we might as well add.. "no faith in himself" while we're at it.. Been there.. done that.. countless times he's said "I'll try" (and I KNOW he means it.. but it's just not there, he feels FAKE, it's not him)...only for me to be let down.. 

I've told him "FAKE IT then damn it!"... we've been over that a # of times too... I only end up getting frustrated with him.. then angry at myself for being so hard to please.. 

IF you think ALL MEN CAN.. if this is true... then my husband is a failure, something is wrong with him!... It's that black & white to me... Should I really go here ? 

OR it's my fault somehow.. that I have failed to create that atmosphere for him to release his inner animal..

Listen...I really don't believe there is any woman who could inspire more passion , more ooomph.. more whatever from him over myself.. I am his world ..yet still.. this is the 1 area he's let me down.. I will never experience those things..it has to be left to fantasy. 

But (as BUddy has tried to explain & he gets it)...I've experienced plenty other mountain tops that I wouldn't trade for anything in this world.. we're meant to be together.. 

It's just not who he is.. what kind of a wife am to try to change him after all these beautiful years he's given me, the best years of my life...

On another note... It's probably a blessing I never did sow some wild oats though.. because had a previous BF thrilled me in this way.. then I met him.. would I have felt I settled? Would that ghost of a lover been something I'd brow beat him with.... we all compare... His competing with a fantasy is far better than a former lover of mine. 

Sometimes you have to live and let live and appreciate what is...this is one of those things for me.. I've worked it out.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

wild jade said:


> Maybe we need to clarify terms? Most often I probably have some purpose to communication, but I don't necessarily want anything from that person. I may be communicating just because I have observed something and they happen to be nearby, or because I am happy to see them and enjoy their company. Or because I feel like sharing a story.
> 
> I certainly don't assume that people want something from me because they are talking to me.
> 
> Not everything is about trying to influence or manipulate my environment is all I'm trying to say.


it would probably help to clarify. from my perspective, i am an entity that can only control my thoughts and my actions. the rest, i can only influence. or, if i have enough foresight and introspection to actually know what i want and how to get it, manipulate.

every single interaction i have involves me trying to get some kind of result. i want to be left alone, i want to observe, im curious, i want to be heard, i want to be held, i want to witness something beautiful, i want to wake up, i want to sleep, i want to eat, i want to have sex, i to clear my mind, i want to reflect...
i always want something. 

i find that to just be life. even if your purpose is to find out what you want to do or what you are doing, your interactions will always have something worth seeing. 

thats the beauty of the world we live in. if we ourselves are so incredibly multifaceted, then how much more fascinating must the rest of the world be?


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> it would probably help to clarify. from my perspective, i am an entity that can only control my thoughts and my actions. the rest, i can only influence. or, if i have enough foresight and introspection to actually know what i want and how to get it, manipulate.
> 
> every single interaction i have involves me trying to get some kind of result. i want to be left alone, i want to observe, im curious, i want to be heard, i want to be held, i want to witness something beautiful, i want to wake up, i want to sleep, i want to eat, i want to have sex, i to clear my mind, i want to reflect...
> i always want something.
> ...


Okay. To me that all sounds rather narcissistic and not very beautiful, but I don't really want to argue about it. 

Personally, I don't always want something, and am not always aiming at some result. And yet I still find interactions and other people to be quite interesting.

To each his own.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

narcissistic? 

eh, maybe it is. 

regardless, i love people. even when they hate themselves. 

people are beautiful.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

wild jade said:


> Uh huh. So why is she afraid of angering Christian by going to see her friend's photography exhibit?
> 
> *Because Christian was jealous knowing the friend had the hots for Anna. Go into CWI and see how they think women should not go on GNO's, never go to a bar without her husband being there. These are relationship parameters that every coupe has to define for themselves and not a sign of abuse.*
> 
> ...


You can go in if you want but I'm pretty sure you're pulling this info from one of the many blogs that trashed 50 shades for objectifying and abusing women. So please go in, I'm happy to shoot down everything you bring up.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

@SimplyAmorous

I think you're taking my posted opinion too personally. Just like anyone can learn to do anything....if they want to and if they try hard enough. You may never be a concert pianist but you can certainly learn a bunch of show tunes.

Your husband thinks it's beyond him to do this. * and that's perfectly okay!*


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I don't want to keep harping on WHY he can't do it.. all I know is this.. If I get my hopes up for this again & again... and he fails again & again...it's not a good thing..
> 
> It only makes him feel like *a failure*, that he can't satisfy me...we might as well add.. "no faith in himself" while we're at it.. Been there.. done that.. countless times he's said "I'll try" (and I KNOW he means it.. but it's just not there, he feels FAKE, it's not him)...only for me to be let down..
> 
> ...


I simply couldn't do it. I couldn't get it up.

I can't watch porn unless the woman appears to be enjoying it. Anything where a woman appears to be forced is a boner killer for me. Knowing intellectually that she is actually enjoying it doesn't work since my d!ck reacts to my "hidden lust", not my rational mind. I could rationally "fake it", but my penis wouldn't be convinced. 

Once upon a time, I might have thought that this would be a benefit from a woman's perspective but I now see that it's actually likely a liability. Luckily, I'm 61 and very happily married so it's a moot point.

If my partner absolutely needed this, I wouldn't feel like a failure, I'd just see that we're incompatible on this and she'd have to decide how important it was to her, hopefully before the relationship had progressed very far. There was a time where I might have seen the woman as a "failure" for wanting it, but I've come to see that the id wants what the id wants and there's not much to be done about it, .


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Fozzy said:


> Often the Dom does what they do FOR the sub. There is often a misconception that one partner Doms at the expense of a sub. In what I would consider to be a healthy D/s relationship, any dominating is done out of love, to meet a need or desire of a sub.
> 
> In a very real sense, it's actually the sub calling the shots.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Indeed. Today, I tied a lady up and afterwards she asked me what I most enjoyed about tying women up. The truth was, I do it to very few women and I do so as it makes them very happy, essentially being sensitive to their emotional needs. However, it they truly do enjoy it, it becomes great fun for me too.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Anon Pink said:


> Getting back to the point you wanted to discuss about women 'wanting a dominant man' as SA said. My counter point was that once dominance is described and understood I believe what those women were looking for was a man who made her feel like a woman. Many women feel like they're more a mommy to their husbands (excluding sex) than wife to their husbands. And this is the theme that JLD puts forth. That men have to stop allowing their wives to be their mommy and they do that by taking more responsibility for themselves and their family.


 Just playing on this paragraph...even if I may have the more dominate "take charge" personality between us.. he's always made me feel like a woman, a desired woman (maybe not enough when I wanted 3 times a day) ... another way to put it.. like the "only woman in the room"...always. 

The whole Mommy thing....never felt this .. he lives for the responsibility of his family..and we're a large bunch! So much rides on his shoulders in this regard.. I so look up to him , his attitude, the man never complains.. he may work near back to back 16 hrs days... doesn't complain...I have to watch if he gets sick.. because if it's Bad.. he probably needs the emergency room, that is how little he plays down pain. 



> Yes EllisRedding, each of us defines what a man is, what a dominant man is, what a woman is, what a submissive woman is. I agree. I refer to what I've seen in SIM and I think @MEM11363 will agree because I know he has seen it too, is that when a woman is the one setting the tone and the emotion in the marriage, when she is the one who has to regulate her emotions because her husband can't tolerate her being irrational or upset or anxious because he is the one who is anxious and in need of reassurance, she comes to see him as if she is the mommy soothing him and reassuring him. When a woman spends too much time doing this, and too much time is defined by her and her alone, she loses interest in her husband sexually. That's when she pines for the book boyfriend who isn't affected by the emotional storm brewing in her heart.


 My husband, Passive, Beta as I go on about him... He is a mighty ROCK in this area...

He is like @jld 's husband even... can handle anything I throw at him, doesn't leave the room...(and he's sensitive too -but more sensitive to wanting to be there for ME -over worrying about himself)....he comes home with a smile on his face.. his presence is always steady / stable... it tempers me down if I've had a bad day...I can run to his arms.. always... He's good for everyone.... 



> Now see, your H didn't shut you out and pull away and pout for a month because he couldn't give you what you wanted, more rough sex, and that's a huge characteristic of a dominant man. "I know you're upset but I'm still here holding your hand and letting you vent and I still love you even though I feel badly that I can give you this." Swoon worthy!


 I could not handle being shut out.. maybe I am the baby here... but seriously...I'd raise holy hell.. and we'd not last.. I've never had to deal with this.. but I can only imagine the frustration women feel here... 

So yeah.... we have to consider other facets of a whole package in a man... He shows sensitivity to me, understands my need to be heard & understood, vulnerability /humility to where he misses it but doesn't cut me off out of frustration.. there is great strength of character in these areas. 

I bet there are plenty of Biker Dominate males who could rough any woman up & down...but I bet they'd fail miserably in some of these other areas where my husband has patience, resolve...and still loves in spite of my being so needy in some areas...

Whatever he is... Passive as I make him sound, Beta...he's still ALWAYS BEEN MY ROCK... I'd even compare him to Jld's husband here...he can handle anything I throw at him, doesn't leave the room...he comes home with a smile on his face.. his presence is always steady.. it tempers me down if I've had a rotten day.. just his coming through the door, he brightens it.....He's good for everyone....



> As I said, your H shows some traits of a dominant man. *He just can't do rough sex with his wife...and that's okay.*


 Are you sure it's Ok Anon ? 

Maybe we are talking about 2 different things here.. I see dominate as being Rough.. but you are pointing out other areas ....I just don't always associate those.. to me those are just responsibilities and being a Good Father/ loving Husband... which I still associate with "GOOD Beta"... not dominance so much... It's not all clear in my mind.. 



> The dude who played Christian Grey came off as gay to me, though I've recently found out he is married with kids. Anyway he was. Poor choice as an actor for that role.


 I never read the book.. we watched the movie together.. I found the actor HOT..

Sorry @PatriciaLee ...this is your thread.. but I keep jumping in here ...


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Mr The Other said:


> Indeed. Today, I tied a lady up and afterwards she asked me what I most enjoyed about tying women up. The truth was, I do it to very few women and I do so as it makes them very happy, essentially being sensitive to their emotional needs. However, it they truly do enjoy it, it becomes great fun for me too.


How do you distinguish between those who want to be tied up and those who don't?


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> How do you distinguish between those who want to be tied up and those who don't?


Listening to them. You can often ask a woman anything if it is non-judgemental and casual.

There are also plenty who think they want to be dominated, but are more scared of being in control of their sexuality. For these women, being tied up feels liberating, but they still try to be in control. Talking with a woman like this, I suggested that she was not really submissive, she said she was. I asked her what she would think if after tying her up, I pleased myself over her and then wandered off and made myself a coffee without making any effort to please her. I have met women who would go crazy for that, but it is rare. Most want you to take full responsibility for their pleasure and actions and it is a game in trust rather than control.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Buddy400 said:


> I simply couldn't do it. I couldn't get it up.
> 
> *I can't watch porn unless the woman appears to be enjoying it. Anything where a woman appears to be forced is a boner killer for me. Knowing intellectually that she is actually enjoying it doesn't work since my d!ck reacts to my "hidden lust", not my rational mind. I could rationally "fake it", but my penis wouldn't be convinced. *


 What you say here.... is ALL my husband.. our deep talks ... for the life of me trying to understand him.. he has said very similar things.. he can't even watch something close to a rape scene, it makes him want to kill the man... if he focused on acting this way.. Also he'd fail to rise.. it's pressure...Pressure is not good for the penis ! ...

Another reason why I tried to get him more so *initially* showing some dominance, push me up against a wall... trap me on the bed... talk dirty to me.. then I'd happily take over.. it's all good... 

I'm happy to hear another man's perspective on it ....he's not alone anyway... 

@Anon Pink ...truth is...these threads can be triggering to me -in a bad way..as I find it EASY as sin to be dominate.. and if I keep thinking about this.. it's like a rotating hamster wheel in my brain ... why the hell can't be push the F****king bar.... then I may start a fight about it.. Yep.. that sucks... if the whole world thinks a man should be able to do this.. than damn it.. he should be able to do it !! 

It's much better for me to read Buddy's posts and remain where I've been.. just saying...


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Mr The Other said:


> Listening to them. You can often ask a woman anything if it is non-judgemental and casual.
> 
> There are also plenty who think they want to be dominated, but are more scared of being in control of their sexuality. For these women, being tied up feels liberating, but they still try to be in control. Talking with a woman like this, I suggested that she was not really submissive, she said she was. I asked her what she would think if after tying her up, I pleased myself over her and then wandered off and made myself a coffee without making any effort to please her. I have met women who would go crazy for that, but it is rare. Most want you to take full responsibility for their pleasure and actions and it is a game in trust rather than control.


Ah! Asking! I was thinking we were just supposed to feel the vibe or something. Seemed a little risky!


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

SA, i was not able to fully let myself get into any sort of dominate mindset until i thought i was dead. 

i dont mean that metaphorically. i didnt expect to breath another breath. hell, my heart even stopped beating. i have the unusual experience of having heard my time of death announced. 


i realized something that changed my whole personality. i realized that emotions are just an experience and i can do anything i want and be anyone i want to be, regardless of the fear, shame, guilt, etc.

and, even if i experience all of those simultaneously, i can still smile and enjoy myself. i truly believe that anyone can be and do anything. 

when i say such things, most people imagine a scenario where someone wakes up one day and just decides "im going to be a badass today". and then they just go on and be a badass. most people seem to think that THAT is what im talking about. it really isnt..

it went more like this: "i want to elicit a response from my wife. from what i know of her, she would like to experience that kind of emotional response. so, how can i do it. i guess i must study her." and then, after a while, "i think i know what will elicit that response, and the thought of doing it just doesnt do it for me. but, if i want to elicit that response, i gotta try. but, what if i fail and just make everything awkward? god, that would be scary. what if i do something wrong, go to far, and cause her to actually fear me? crap, this is scary. yep, im scared of what might happen. i mean, even if i succeed, what do i do with my own emotions about it? wait, she cant feel my emotions. only i can. so, what am i worried about? i can still function exactly as i choose to even if i am terrified. so long as i choose. scary as fvck. yep, were doing this"

and over time, it progressed to...
"holy crap, that was amazing. she totally LOVED it. god, it felt good to be able to see that, to experience it! the part i was afraid of feeling was completely drowned out by her enthusiasm and my joy at having been able to elicited it. and whats more, i was able to do it despite all the fear and reasons i told myself i cannot, or should not."

before long, my own emotional responses to various stimuli and circumstances actually changed. my tastes in food started to change, my sexual desires started to change, everything changed. for the first time, i didnt give two hoots about what i was feeling, i just did what i chose to do. i was free. 


THAT is how people _really_ change. when they learn to accept their emotions and choose to live as they choose, rather than live as they feel. 

its a give and take. you cannot expect someone to feel good about change. and likewise, if you really want change, of any kind, you have to be ok with the fears, the awkwardness, etc. it has been my experience that most people are not willing to accept change in somebody else, let alone themselves!

ask akinaura. she has changed DRAMATICALLY in the last four years. she was scared ****less through a lot of it. and i knew that as i led her along. i knew _exactly_ what she was going through. i had just experienced it myself. the bedroom side of it was just a small piece of the changes i underwent. my poor wife... i confused the crap out of her for so long, until she started to get it.
(dont worry aki, you will always be awesome in my book)

i stand by the sentiment that anyone can be anything. that said, it is certainly not a simple process. once you really change, its impossible to go back. you can always learn new things, but you cannot unlearn anything. 

if you and your husband are happy and full of joy, then dont lament a damn thing. 

if you have joy and hope, you already have everything.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Anon Pink said:


> You can go in if you want but I'm pretty sure you're pulling this info from one of the many blogs that trashed 50 shades for objectifying and abusing women. So please go in, I'm happy to shoot down everything you bring up.


Actually, I'm not, and personally I think he is nothing more than a sociopath and really don't understand why he supposed to be so hot. She is, IMHO, portrayed as afraid of him, and he is jealous and controlling about just about everything. But, as I said to another poster, whatever. To each his own.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> Ah! Asking! I was thinking we were just supposed to feel the vibe or something. Seemed a little risky!


It does have to be done right. As in "I would love to have sex/make love with you, it would be great, I am so into you. Tell me what sort of thing really turns you on, there are so many ways"


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

As'laDain said:


> SA, i was not able to fully let myself get into any sort of dominate mindset *until i thought i was dead.*


 As soon as I read this.. I half laughed.. thinking.. well that's about what it would take for this one.. thinking I gotta read him this post- this outta be good !

You mentioned something about NOT HOW YOU "FEEL".. he is HIGH on the feeling bar.. I've always said this is something I love about him.. but hey.. maybe that is holding him back too!

I've read enough posts about "thinkers" here...Engineers for example...they are notorious temperamentally -being near oblivious to how a woman feels.. just not getting her emotions.. I've always thought that would be hell to live with in comparison.. but I betcha.. those ones wouldn't have any issues in this area !! A piece of cake !!

I'm not really upset.. just being my Expressive self in these posts.. I like your ending... that's where I need to focus ...



> it went more like this: "i want to elicit a response from my wife. from what i know of her, she would like to experience that kind of emotional response. so, how can i do it. i guess i must study her." and then, after a while, "i think i know what will elicit that response, and the thought of doing it just doesnt do it for me. but, if i want to elicit that response, i gotta try. but, what if i fail and just make everything awkward? god, that would be scary. what if i do something wrong, go to far, and cause her to actually fear me? crap, this is scary. yep, im scared of what might happen. i mean, even if i succeed, what do i do with my own emotions about it? wait, she cant feel my emotions. only i can. so, what am i worried about? i can still function exactly as i choose to even if i am terrified. so long as i choose. scary as fvck. yep, were doing this"


 Interesting.. I might read him this someday.. he's under a lot of work stress as of late... they laid off a load of co-workers & now have 3 men doing an over abundance of work, too much over time & trying to get a CDL on top of this for his job.. so I doubt it will be any time soon.. 

Though really it's not good for ME to expect anything.....it only heightens MY EMOTIONS... ..I set our spice jar on fire in front of him one day.. (looking back this is rather amusing -but at the time I was LIVID !)..... that was the last straw for me.. I let him know anything I anticipated , hoped for.. it was DEAD ... this has been a "Serenity Prayer" issue.. about accepting the things I CAN NOT change... 



> and over time, it progressed to...
> "holy crap, that was amazing. she totally LOVED it. god, it felt good to be able to see that, to experience it! the part i was afraid of feeling was completely drowned out by her enthusiasm and my joy at having been able to elicited it. and whats more, i was able to do it despite all the fear and reasons i told myself i cannot, or should not."


 I'm quite vocal and validating when he does something "surprising or introduces something new.. oh it's happened.. but it was never related to "getting rougher"...

I may not be giving him enough credit though... there were a few times I felt a heightened something...I always show much enthusiasm as I want to encourage... I don't know.. I am enthusiastic enough with his norm... so it just gets lost.. forgotten.. I only seem to make a deal out of THIS during pms even...go figure ! and it's greatly calmed with my sex drive calming... 



> before long, my own emotional responses to various stimuli and circumstances actually changed. my tastes in food started to change, my sexual desires started to change, everything changed. for the first time, i didnt give two hoots about what i was feeling, i just did what i chose to do. i was free.


 this is rather dramatic I must say.... something like this could be down right dangerous if directed in a BAD WAY.... 




> ask akinaura. she has changed DRAMATICALLY in the last four years. she was scared ****less through a lot of it. and i knew that as i led her along. i knew _exactly_ what she was going through. i had just experienced it myself. the bedroom side of it was just a small piece of the changes i underwent. my poor wife... i confused the crap out of her for so long, until she started to get it.
> (dont worry aki, you will always be awesome in my book)


 I don't know your story enough to understand WHY the 2 of you have had SO MANY CHANGES going on.. sounds like an awful lot... had to be many things at play.. more so than just a bedroom thing.. I am assuming....



> i stand by the sentiment that anyone can be anything. that said, it is certainly not a simple process. *once you really change, its impossible to go back.* you can always learn new things, but you cannot unlearn anything.


 could be opening an Pandora's box even.... 



> if you and your husband are happy and full of joy, then dont lament a damn thing.
> 
> if you have joy and hope, you already have everything.


 We are happy, thankful , appreciative of what we have, share.. our life , family.. it's very good.. enough to carry us into old age.. so I feel...

In this though...I've lost enthusiasm...something died in me with the burning of that Spice jar, sorry to say .. it's symbolic...

Thank you for sharing As'laDain!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

wild jade said:


> Actually, I'm not, and personally I think he is nothing more than a sociopath and really don't understand why he supposed to be so hot. She is, IMHO, portrayed as afraid of him, and he is jealous and controlling about just about everything. But, as I said to another poster, whatever. To each his own.


LOL, as I said up thread somewhere, I was uninspired by the books and did not find the character particularly appealing and did not understand the wild popularity of the book because there are sooooo many other BDSM romances and BDSM light romances that were better. Truly, it is a mystery to me why this book became so popular. It was only during the second book that the story became interesting to me, but I didn't find the books to be erotically appealing.

No where in any of the books is she afraid of him. No where. I would love it if you could remember a scene that you felt showed her fear?

He wasn't over the top controlling. Through the first book he is trying to get her to sign his submissive contract in which he outlines all of his expectations, his rules, his demands for his submissive. She never signs the contract. He said he couldn't have a relationship with her unless she signed, in an attempt to get her to sign, and she said she wasn't ready but they continued to see each other. So his control over her was illusionary at best.

The only reason why I'm continuing this back and forth over something as inconsequential as a book is because the POV you take, that 50shades is objectifying and abusive is what keeps women from owning their sexuality.

As good feminists we're not supposed to find domestic abuse and objectification of women erotically appealing. We've been told that 50shades represented DV and sociopathic control, and yet we gelled our panties reading it! How do we reconcile with ourselves when we do. How do we deal with the contradiction and conflict of being aroused by BDSM and being aroused by a dominant man when our feminist side demands we abhor that? How do we own our feminism and own our sexuality when the two are at odds with each other.

I say they're not at odds. Feminism allows us the freedom to HAVE sexuality, the freedom to BE sexual, the freedom to EXPLORE our sexual selves and the freedom to EMBRACE our sexual selves, no matter what it is.

Being submissive to a husband, if that's what turns us on, doesn't negate our free agency. It doesn't wipe away our rights and it doesn't exclude us from feminist advocacy. Because equality is the freedom to walk our own path regardless of our gender.

Lecture over, test on Monday, have a great weekend.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Maybe we are talking about 2 different things here.. I see dominate as being Rough.. but you are pointing out other areas ....I just don't always associate those.. to me those are just responsibilities and being a Good Father/ loving Husband... which I still associate with "GOOD Beta"... not dominance so much... It's not all clear in my mind..


We are talking about different things. Rough sex is what people associate as dominant sex. Dominant sex can include rough sex but it doesn't have to. What you want is rougher sex. You want to feel that your H is so passionate about your body he has lost a measure of his self control. There are other ways he can show that loss of self control without rough sex.

There are natural born dominant personality types. Some people just are dominant. They are naturally decisive, naturally influential, naturally conscientious...etc. but for the purposes of TAM in general and this thread in particular "Dominance" is fluid and relative. If, as a woman you want your man to be dominant, they you should define for yourself what you see as dominant behavior in husbands. And then go a step further and define the complimentary definition of submissive behavior in wives.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

wild jade said:


> You've stigmatized by suggesting that only your view of men as dominant and women submissive is normal. Anything that deviates from your prescritption is labeled as outliers and against biology.
> 
> Which is simply not true. There are lots of women who are into being dominant and lots of men into being submissive. Close to 50% in fact. These people too are perfectly normal, and are not denying their biology or their nature. They are simply enjoying their sexuality like everyone else.
> 
> ...


Look back. I said nothing about men. You're projecting. I did say that women find a certain amount of dominance erotic. Which is not implying anything about men's preferences. You are reading far too deeply into my comments, rather than taking them at face value. 

Regardless of what either gender is turned on by, it's mostly biological IMO, and as such neither group should be ashamed of it.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

As'laDain said:


> it went more like this: "i want to elicit a response from my wife. from what i know of her, she would like to experience that kind of emotional response. so, how can i do it. i guess i must study her." and then, after a while, "i think i know what will elicit that response, and the thought of doing it just doesnt do it for me. but, if i want to elicit that response, i gotta try. but, what if i fail and just make everything awkward? god, that would be scary. what if i do something wrong, go to far, and cause her to actually fear me? crap, this is scary. yep, im scared of what might happen. i mean, even if i succeed, what do i do with my own emotions about it? wait, she cant feel my emotions. only i can. so, what am i worried about? i can still function exactly as i choose to even if i am terrified. so long as i choose. scary as fvck. yep, were doing this"


This is what I find problematic; the assumption that a guy wouldn't do this because he's afraid, lacks confidence, isn't willing to do what it takes to make his woman satisfied.

The reason I wouldn't do it would be because *I don't want to*, I can't and because I'd have trouble respecting a woman who wanted me to do this. It's not that I'm too afraid to try.

This seems somewhat analogous to a situation where a woman has a deep aversion to something sexual (anal, swallowing, etc.) and saying that she doesn't care enough about her husband to give it a try.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Interesting.. I might read him this someday.. he's under a lot of work stress as of late... they laid off a load of co-workers & now have 3 men doing an over abundance of work, too much over time & trying to get a CDL on top of this for his job.. so I doubt it will be any time soon..


I wouldn't.



SimplyAmorous said:


> Though really it's not good for ME to expect anything.....it only heightens MY EMOTIONS... ..I set our spice jar on fire in front of him one day.. (looking back this is rather amusing -but at the time I was LIVID !)..... that was the last straw for me.. I let him know anything I anticipated , hoped for.. it was DEAD ... this has been a "Serenity Prayer" issue.. about accepting the things I CAN NOT change...


You're fortunate. If my wife had gotten angry with me and made it clear that there was an important sexual need of hers that I knew I could never satisfy, I don't know that I'd have any interest in continuing to have sex with her.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Buddy400 said:


> This is what I find problematic; the assumption that a guy wouldn't do this because he's afraid, lacks confidence, isn't willing to do what it takes to make his woman satisfied.
> 
> The reason I wouldn't do it would be because *I don't want to*, I can't and because I'd have trouble respecting a woman who wanted me to do this. It's not that I'm too afraid to try.
> 
> This seems somewhat analogous to a situation where a woman has a deep aversion to something sexual (anal, swallowing, etc.) and saying that she doesn't care enough about her husband to give it a try.


You don't want to do it, nor do you believe it is possible for you to enjoy something you have a natural aversion to, is that correct?

I used to believe that it would not be possible to enjoy something I have a natural negative reaction to. That belief changed when I started thinking about emotions differently. To cite your analogy, the woman would have to do far more than "give it a try". 

But, it's best not to open Pandora box unless you are ready to accept chaos.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

If someone were to ask me why I would be willing to go through sucheckout a terribly painful and scary process, the answer may surprise you.

I did it so that I could learn to love myself, so that I could in turn show my wife how to love herself. 

I did it for the gratification of knowing that made a lasting positive impact on her, so that she can experience and express joy with or without me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

The only thing that really struck me about the_ 50 Shades of Grey_ movie is:

"Get me back my vintage VW Bug, you a.s.s.hole!" issed:


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> As far as I'm concerned a good lover is dominant in bed. What does that really mean? I think it really means so passionate that you are completely driven by desire and not censoring or second guessing or hesitating. Both men and women should demonstrate this in bed, btw. But women seem to focus on this uncontrollable passion of the dominant lover without recognizing he's just a good lover.


I really like this.
I used to rehearse and think about how to be dominant in bed. I would always just tie myself up in knots. Now, I try to simply lose myself in the passion. The more I let myself go, the more dominant I become. It comes naturally, IF I let myself go in the moment. Same for my wife. The more she lets herself go in the moment the more ying she is to my yang.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Anon Pink said:


> The only reason why I'm continuing this back and forth over something as inconsequential as a book is because the POV you take, that 50shades is objectifying and abusive is what keeps women from owning their sexuality.
> 
> As good feminists we're not supposed to find domestic abuse and objectification of women erotically appealing. We've been told that 50shades represented DV and sociopathic control, and yet we gelled our panties reading it! How do we reconcile with ourselves when we do. How do we deal with the contradiction and conflict of being aroused by BDSM and being aroused by a dominant man when our feminist side demands we abhor that? How do we own our feminism and own our sexuality when the two are at odds with each other.
> 
> ...


I disagree completely, and think you are mis-representing what I'm trying to say. If women want to be submissive to their husbands and are turned on by these things, then they should absolutely feel free to explore their sexuality in this regard.

At the same time, women need to not accept abuse into their lives -- and there are an awful lot who do, all in the name of love.

What you have justified in 50 Shades are not things that I would justify. What right does he have to be angry over some guy who is attracted to her? She was a virgin, and never even slept with anyone else. Why does she have to continually manage his anger?

My post wasn't an attempt to say that women should not be submissive, it was in response to your point that a lot of people who claim to be dominant or think of themselves as dominant are really just weak and insecure and controlling. I think Christian Grey is an example of that. He is tempermental, jealous, and controlling, all for no reason whatsoever. 

People who are truly dominant do not use anger to control their submissive partners and do not need to be managed like that. 

If people find it sexy, and get off on the story, fine, up to them. It's just a story. 

But in real life you want to be a bit careful to distinguish between dominance and actual abuse. Individually, of course. But there is still a line.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> Look back. I said nothing about men. You're projecting. I did say that women find a certain amount of dominance erotic. Which is not implying anything about men's preferences. You are reading far too deeply into my comments, rather than taking them at face value.
> 
> Regardless of what either gender is turned on by, it's mostly biological IMO, and as such neither group should be ashamed of it.


I'm not reading into it: you just said it again. One way is the right way because it is biological. 

The other way is the wrong way because it is just outliers that don't count. And are probably lying anyway. 

My only point is that neither side should be ashamed. Neither side should be considered normal while the other is dismissed. Both approaches are just as biological and just as common and just as much fun for whoever is into them.


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

I've posted before that my H is naturally dominant. I'm naturally submissive. That's the case both in and out of the bedroom. I've always been attracted to dominant men and I've always had fantasies of being man handled in the bedroom for as long as I remember. 

It's a turn on for me. It makes me feel very sexy and desired, on a primal level. Like he just can't help himself, he has to have me. My husband can get very aggressive in the bedroom and call me his "little **** doll" and I love it! Or tell me to get on my knees or bend over or whatever. I've never felt degraded or disrespected. Why would I? It's just bedroom play. In our marriage we are partners and he doesn't mistreat me. 

In no way does dominant = a*hole. My husband is a great guy. Huge family man, very responsible and loving. He values my opinions and always puts my needs before his own, whether I want him to or not. So I really don't feel demeaned in any way. Many men are what I call "fake dominant". Those are the player type guys women often fall for, mistaking their arrogance for confidence. But when **** hits the fan, these are the first guys to bail or run like chickens with their heads cut off. Not my idea of dominant.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

wild jade said:


> I disagree completely, and think you are mis-representing what I'm trying to say. If women want to be submissive to their husbands and are turned on by these things, then they should absolutely feel free to explore their sexuality in this regard.
> 
> At the same time, women need to not accept abuse into their lives -- and there are an awful lot who do, all in the name of love.
> 
> ...


Now I know you didn't read the books. He does have a reason for why he is so controlling. And if you HAD read the books you would have noticed that every attempt he makes at control is sweetly shot to hell by Anna.

Every couple defines their own parameters of couple-dom. For Christian, he didn't want his GF hanging out with a guy who had the hots for her AND was caught taking advantage of her while she was drunk. BTW! Anna goes to the exhibit...so Christian's parameters were shot to hell by Anna. Which was the theme of the books. This guy demands stuff and meets and falls in love with a woman who seems to give in but in realty she never does. She was the one with all the power all along.

Temperamental? I didn't see that either. He wasnt described as having a very broad range of emotional affect which I think disqualifies one as being temperamental. 

You still haven't recalled a scene in which she was afraid of him or had to manage his anger. And that's because there weren't any.

I don't recall writing that people who think of themselves as dominant are really just weak, insecure and controlling. Are you sure that was me?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Buddy400 said:


> You're fortunate. If my wife had gotten angry with me and made it clear that there was an important sexual need of hers that I knew I could never satisfy, I don't know that I'd have any interest in continuing to have sex with her.


See right here Buddy... I know this.. he puts up with my sh** too.. and he does an amazingly job at it ...yet still he wouldn't trade me for anything..... He would never deny me sex.. and he's not resentful either... 

We have fought over this a # of times.. but always we make up, it's very tender, loving, all is forgiven & passionate...and we're back to "the good"...but yes, there have been bumps every now & then...

I want to share with you a post he left on this forum about me -in dealing with THIS...so you can hear his side... it hasn't changed ...this was off my "Am I being too whiny, husband can't do Rough" thread..



SA's husband said:


> Everything my wife does is intense. This includes when she gets irritated. With her words she has made me feel like I couldn't please her that I am not enough. But I still wouldn't change who she is because it doesn't happen very often, I can live with that.
> 
> What we have is so beautiful the majority of the time, it's like our driveway, we have a nice piece of land hard to get in and out in the winter, it is perfect all summer long, then I have a few bad days getting in and out, have to salt it, scrape it. That's my wife, she's worth it.
> 
> I'm not perfect, I've said things I needed to apologize for, she just does it more.


I am speaking what Is.. these last years have been the most exciting & sexually adventurous of all the years we've been together...but at the same time... I have allowed this one issue to become a contention of mine..(much less now than I did when I landed here).

Again...he's never been one to shut me out... He doesn't blame me or look down on me for feeling as I do either, even if he doesn't understand it, or struggles to do it.. 

Giving me your perspective (I thank you for your honesty)... just makes me want to hug him tight when he comes home tonight.. I have surely beat myself up too over causing some of these troubles between us...I'm reminded once again.. "get a Grip woman ! Count your blessings !" because the reality is.. no other man would .. basically put up with me ! He's been more than gracious.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

wild jade said:


> I'm not reading into it: you just said it again. One way is the right way because it is biological.
> 
> The other way is the wrong way because it is just outliers that don't count. And are probably lying anyway.
> 
> My only point is that neither side should be ashamed. Neither side should be considered normal while the other is dismissed. Both approaches are just as biological and just as common and just as much fun for whoever is into them.


Okay Don Quixote, keep tilting at your windmills. I'm sure you'll slay that dragon.

I have not used the word right (in the moral sense) throughout this entire thread. The only time that word has been used has been a denotation of successful vs unsuccessful. 

I've repeatedly stated that there is nothing to be ashamed of here, as this is a matter of taste, not a matter of ethics.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Once again, I am finding myself agreeing with @Anon Pink. This time, it is about the 50 Shades books (and movie). I was one who stated I would NEVER read them/watch the movies. I also spoke out against them, reading websites that took excerpts from the book and spoke on them. Then, like any good researcher does, I looked at the excerpts in context... and they did not say anything even remotely resembling the inferences described. 

I'm not into the whole dom-sub thing, nor am I into BDSM. And I don't read romance novels, smut, etc. normally. But with the controversy about those, I chose to "suck it up". I found myself skipping much of the sex scenes in the books because it was just repetitive, IMO. 

As for being into dom/sub... I really don't know much about it. I am sure, if I wanted to try, my husband would give it a chance. But, I think, like Mr.SA, it just "isn't him". But if he wanted to try it out, I would give it a fair chance, too. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> See right here Buddy... I know this.. he puts up with my sh** too.. and he does an amazingly job at it ...yet still he wouldn't trade me for anything..... He would never deny me sex.. and he's not resentful either...
> 
> We have fought over this a # of times.. but always we make up, it's very tender, loving, all is forgiven & passionate...and we're back to "the good"...but yes, there have been bumps every now & then...
> 
> ...


To be clear, I was pointing out your good fortune and how he's a better man about this than I could be, not to criticize you. He can't do "rough"; you sometimes have trouble holding your emotions in; we all have our imperfections. You two are made for each other.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Buddy400 said:


> To be clear, I was pointing out your good fortune and how he's a better man about this than I could be, not to criticize you. He can't do "rough"; you sometimes have trouble holding your emotions in; we all have our imperfections. You two are made for each other.


Yep.. those 2 are our individuals FLAWS right there....loud & clear...I won't deny mine.. I have a NEED to express myself ...but with this.. to hear his side too..trying to find that middle ground to please us both...I will climb a mountain for those things- if he shows a good attitude... However...if this is blown off... my frustration would reach boiling...not good.. 

And he's a hell of a good man..but still not the type the majority of women would be attracted to... he's too Laid back, too predicable, probably even too responsible if that makes sense.. naturally a pleaser, but I wouldn't call him a doormat.. he'd just busy himself else where & leave me alone IF I didn't treat him good or show respect ....

He may not "come on to me" like a hungry freight train (but I can)...and he eats that up... This saves us in this area, for the most part... it's still a lot of FUN. 

If there is a dominate / submissive dynamic between women & men.. (and we are attracted to our opposites)... we still fit together very well... 

I have to wonder if your wife has a dominate streak Buddy ??


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> As good feminists we're not supposed to find domestic abuse and objectification of women erotically appealing. We've been told that 50shades represented DV and sociopathic control, and yet we gelled our panties reading it! How do we reconcile with ourselves when we do. How do we deal with the contradiction and conflict of being aroused by BDSM and being aroused by a dominant man when our feminist side demands we abhor that? How do we own our feminism and own our sexuality when the two are at odds with each other.
> 
> I say they're not at odds. Feminism allows us the freedom to HAVE sexuality, the freedom to BE sexual, the freedom to EXPLORE our sexual selves and the freedom to EMBRACE our sexual selves, no matter what it is.
> 
> ...


"Confused by thoughts, we experience duality in life. Unencumbered by ideas, the enlightened ones see reality."

-Huineng


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

wild jade said:


> I disagree completely, and think you are mis-representing what I'm trying to say. If women want to be submissive to their husbands and are turned on by these things, then they should absolutely feel free to explore their sexuality in this regard.
> 
> At the same time, women need to not accept abuse into their lives -- and there are an awful lot who do, all in the name of love.
> 
> ...


I get what you are saying, but I don't think there's as neat of a line between "dominant" and "absusive" as you think

it's easy to think of examples of "dominant" men who would never cross this line

on the other hand, Genghis Khan might have been a totally abusive boyfriend but no one would say he wasn't "dominant"

people are individuals


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I have to wonder if your wife has a dominate streak Buddy ??


I don't think so. 

I used to be a "Nice Guy" but I had pretty much figured out what I was doing wrong before I met her (I was 32 and she was 30),

Although she was making more money than I was when we met, she was more than happy to turn over all the financial responsibilities to me. It took me a while to realize that she was happiest if I made the majority of the decisions and longer for me to realize that the best way to make her happy was to let her make me happy. Her IQ is probably higher than mine but she thinks I'm smarter and defers to me in most cases (I would prefer that she only to do this if she thinks I'm right). I am very steady emotionally but able to serve as her surrogate therapist. 

I mentioned one day that "TAM seems to think that chicks dig dominant guys" and she responded with "like you". So take that for what it's worth.

On the sexual side, I don't doubt that there may be a part of her that wants to be dominated. If spanking or hair pulling is mentioned she claims she wouldn't like that. But, there have been a couple of things that hint at her getting off on not being treated well sexually but I get the feeling that she's not entirely happy with her subconscious in this area. I have made some modest changes where I might have been holding back from what I truly wanted to do, but I no desire to go further than that.

She had an unhappy life before meeting me and did a lot of things that she regrets. So, prior to meeting me she was in counselling to figure out how to change her ways. Instead of just following her id where ever it goes (and it went into some pretty bad places), she learned to give her rational brain more control and that's worked out for her.

If she wanted what you want(ed), she had the good sense to avoid making a big deal out of it and evidently made the decision that the rest of what I have to offer more than compensates for any failings on my part in this area.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Buddy400 said:


> If she wanted what you want(ed), she had the good sense to avoid making a big deal out of it and evidently made the decision that the rest of what I have to offer more than compensates for any failings on my part in this area.


Just speaking for myself here ..If I couldn't talk about what I wanted & desired , feeling I had to stuff it down.. I would have grown resentment towards my husband.. 

This wouldn't have been any better over confronting & emotionally working through our squabbles, with plenty of make up sex over the years... 

It works for us.. I told him about these posts just a little bit ago.. also what you said... it doesn't bother him that I brought this subject up at all.. he smiled all through our conversation.. hugged me.. told me he loved me. That's my husband ... He can handle me !!


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Buddy400 said:


> I don't think so.
> 
> I used to be a "Nice Guy" but I had pretty much figured out what I was doing wrong before I met her (I was 32 and she was 30),
> 
> ...


We women are 'hardwired' so to speak to like men who are assertive and initiators. Out of bed and in bed.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

*Deidre* said:


> We women are 'hardwired' so to speak to like men who are assertive and initiators. Out of bed and in bed.


What I want to see is a thread where women with your point of view go up against the women who insist men and women (and their sex drives) are exactly the same.

I haven't seen Faithful Wife and Always_Alone around lately, but there must be some woman here you could get in an argument with. :smile2:


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> This is what I find problematic; the assumption that a guy wouldn't do this because he's afraid, lacks confidence, isn't willing to do what it takes to make his woman satisfied.
> 
> The reason I wouldn't do it would be because *I don't want to*, I can't and because I'd have trouble respecting a woman who wanted me to do this. It's not that I'm too afraid to try.
> 
> This seems somewhat analogous to a situation where a woman has a deep aversion to something sexual (anal, swallowing, etc.) and saying that she doesn't care enough about her husband to give it a try.


I understand and you have every right not to. 

No-one (I hope) would criticize a wife who did not want to put on a Darth Vader mask and wee on their husband. Particularly in a case wants you to fulfill her desire and for you to be extremely grateful to her for that.

I get irritated by women who want me to dominate and believe they have the right to tell me exactly how to do it. Frankly, it is a bad sign for a relationship generally if she wants you to take full responsibility, but without giving any trust, control or gratitude. 

However, you must also accept that it does make you less sexually compatible. It is also possible to learn and feel confident and comfortable with.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> What I want to see is a thread where women with your point of view go up against the women who insist men and women (and their sex drives) are exactly the same.


This type of debate is impossible on an anonymous forum like TAM. How do we even know whether the person presenting their opinion is even a woman? It could be a man posing as a woman trying to push the "evolutionary biology" angle. He!!, for all you know _I_ can be a man posing as a woman. :wink2:


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Lila said:


> This type of debate is impossible on an anonymous forum like TAM. How do we even know whether the person presenting their opinion is even a woman? It could be a man posing as a woman trying to push the "evolutionary biology" angle. He!!, for all you know _I_ can be a man posing as a woman. :wink2:


I confess, I am a fraud.

Despite claiming to be a middle aged divorced man, I am actually an attractive nymphomaniac teenage girl trying to lure innocent men in with my deceit.

Please, forgive me.


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## NotEasy (Apr 19, 2015)

UMP said:


> ...
> I used to rehearse and think about how to be dominant in bed. I would always just tie myself up in knots.
> ...


 If you're trying to be dominant in bed and tying yourself in knots then you're doing the bondage wrong.
Sorry cheap joke, back to the thread.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Buddy400 said:


> *What I want to see is a thread where women with your point of view go up against the women who insist men and women (and their sex drives) are exactly the same.*
> 
> I haven't seen Faithful Wife and Always_Alone around lately, but there must be some woman here you could get in an argument with. :smile2:


Does my thread quality??

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-compare-whats-your-take-your-experience.html

Faithful Wife & Always Alone were all over it..


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Mr The Other said:


> I confess, I am a fraud.
> 
> Despite claiming to be a middle aged divorced man, I am actually an attractive nymphomaniac teenage girl trying to lure innocent men in with my deceit.
> 
> Please, forgive me.


Well, that explains your exchanges with SMG in his threads... 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Please read the rules for posting on the Sex In Marriage Forum. 




Chris H. said:


> Sexual problems in marriage have been a common topic on Talk About Marriage, so we decided to make a special section for these types of discussion.
> 
> We have talked a lot about what kind of discussions to allow and not to allow regarding sex on Talk About Marriage. The goal is to encourage Q & A for personal problems, while at the same time offending the least amount of people possible. :scratchhead: How do you do that when it comes to the issue of sex?
> 
> ...


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=19540


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