# How do I get past it



## markster (Nov 20, 2012)

My partner and I have been together over 4 years minus 2 months.

We met, moved in together. and began a common-law marriage for 2 and a half years, at which point she requested a separation to deal with her sexual assault as a child through counselling. I didn't see why we needed to separate, but I reluctantly agreed and we both moved to 2 separate residences. (Something she orchestrated behind my back months before she told me she wanted to)

We continued to see each other almost daily at her request. She said that she loved me and requested that I support her through her counselling and issues to which I agreed.

Approx. 3 months into this arrangement she became distant, quick-tempered, defensive and most of all deceptive.

Whenever we would argue (most of which I felt were silly things that she would start) and take a few days apart to cool down, she began telling me of a girl-friend at work who thought that she should see other people and "expand her horizons". Many times I asked her if she wanted to do that, she said definately not. We also continued to have sex regularly at my place and go out as a couple.

So, time went by and she would talk of reuniting under one roof. Although I indicated that I was hoping for that, which she would agree to, there would never be a date set. 

Well, after many further disagreements, her emotional distance began to grow. She would speak of situations at work that were obviously her discovering her sexuality and having interactions with men that were both boundary violations of our relationship and safety concerns. (Offering to jump into a new suppliers truck alone and ride to a job site with a man she had never met before, in spite of the fact that her car was steps away.) Nothing overt sexually, however. (This was when we were still living together) Total refusal to concede to any wrong-doing and I was just being "jealous & controlling" if I had an issue with it ... maybe I "needed counselling for MY issues".

Then came the biggie. After a particularly lengthy arguement that she started and then perpetuated despite my efforts to work it out, I sensed that her eyes were wandering to another specific man. Sure enough this "friend" that her girlfriend wanted her to meet, at some point before, she did meet and they went on a date .. while we were still in a serious relationship that she claimed to want (regular sex, her talk of moving back in together, frequent "I love you's" and future plans including frequent talk of marriage)

We had a long conversation, where I asked her many questions, as my suspicions were running high. She lied repeatedly as to the nature of meeting this person, how many times they had met, when they had first met, and whether we were broken up at the time etc.(We weren't .. she was just mad at me and figured "why not" .... her words) She confirmed my suspicions, but still angrily insisted that she did nothing wrong.. he was just a friend, and "nothing happened". Well, after all of her lies were revealed (I had a discussion with her girlfriend to confirm) I ended the relationship quite definatively leaving no doubt in her mind that we were through and why. Regardless of what she did or did not do with this "friend" , one thing she did was orchestrate a number of meetings with him behind my back, during which they got to know each other quite well, all of which she lied to me about until I presented her with proof that I was aware of it all. 

We split for 2 months during which time she continued to see him and get to know him better throughout. She swears to me that absolutely nothing of a romantic or sexual nature developed between them at any time in spite of them speaking almost daily on the phone and getting together to "play guitars and talk" regularly. 

Many things happened, I re-enetered the picture, with full approval from my counsellor and she expressed some remorse for many things that happened and said that she told him that she could not see him any more because she was getting back together with me. She said that "mistakes were made" and she was sorry she hurt me.

Sorry for the long lead-up, but here's my question now.

I am still looking for more definative closure on the issue from her and more of a commitment that this sort of thing will never happen again. We are married now. The subject is still VERY touchy with us 6 months later, and we had an arguement recently where she now said that I blew the whole thing out of proportion and that she expressed unfairness that she could no longer see him again as he was a "very nice and wise man" and besides "nothing ever happened between them". 

Is it me, or is denying any wrongdoing in what is at the very least betrayal, lies and an emotional affair not exactly reassuring me that this sort of thing could easily happen again? Before I proposed, I made sure that she had genuine remorse and an understanding of how her behaviour had destroyed my faith and trust in her and our relationship and that she needed to rebuild it, all conditions that she eagerly agreed to. 

I am trying to move past this all and I am having some success but I am also hesitant to discuss it with her further as as she says that I forgave her (which I did ... but before more evidence of further lies was uncovered) .. so she says that I should "get over it". 

I am not trying to continue to torture or blame her, I am just looking for reassurance that this same situation will not reoccur in our marriage, and I think step one of that is to have her be totally transparent and stop with the displays of anger and exasperation whenever I don't appreciate her speaking of the time as a "positive growth period" for her, etc.

Thoughts are appreciated.


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## shecheatedVA (Nov 11, 2012)

She saying Get Over It doesn't indicate any remorse. She doesn't seem to acknowledge out right what did was wrong and she crossed the line. I would almost be 100% certain that either during the time she said she was just talking but definitely during your breakup, she had physical relations with this man. The fact she still continues to say he is nice and she'd like a relationship with him is another indicator of her lack of remorse and the fact they are continuing their affair behind your back. You said she had some remorse but not [email protected] out crying, reiterating how sorry she is, how wrong she was, etc. She cheated so it's well within your right until your completely over it, to continue to ask her for any information or detail about the affair. She has to be completely transparent and open with you. 

You guys just began your marriage. I'd take a serious look and ask all the hard questions not only to yourself but to her, before you realize you've wasted a big chunk of your life being with a woman who doesn't share the same values as you do. Good luck.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Get an annulment before your first year is up. 

She is a cheater...and unrepentant cheater who cares nothing about your feelings. Step back, separate yourself from your emotions, and objectively look at her behaviour towards you. 

She is not wife material.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

You seriously need out. There are red flags all over your post, and not for just one A. 

You are her security while she plays the field.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I see alot of boundry issues here.

Talks is cheap, she needs to take action and address the lack of boundries she has. You haven't mention one thing about her learning the tools to affair proof her new marriage.

From were I'm sitting, in about 5-7 years she will innocently start up a friendship with a male "friend" and it will take weeks (maybe months, depends how vunarable she is) for the OM to go from the friend zone to getting to 1st base, then before you know it you will hear "I didn't mean it to happen"....

In short she has done nothing to learn the tools that will teach her how slipery of a slope is when in a commited relationship and having oppisite sex friends. I mean you know she has the capacity to lie, yet you still married her by taking her word (you took the word from a lier).

Keep your eye out brother, she isn't done yet! She hasn't faced her issues and until she does, your marriage is in danger.


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## giashasa2012 (Aug 16, 2012)

NO CHILDREN + CHEATER = DIVORCE

Run and don't look back .


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I'm trying to understand the story.

You were together for 2 years.

She demands a "break" so she can work on her sexual abuse issues.

during that break, she doesn't seem to work on any issues, but instead she dates other men, one in particular.

you get told the old lie of "just friends"

when you finally clue in a dump her for her lies, she ends her "friendship" eventually and you get back together?


OR to write all this another way.

You dated for 2 years. She wants a break so she can date others. She finds and dates one guy in particular. You dump her for cheating. Eventually the guy she's cheating with doesn't work out, so she dumps him an comes back to you.

Now your finding it hard to feel the same trust, love, and passion for her because your seeing what she deliberately chose to do as cold and showing that she saw you as plan B, and wanted to see if there could be some better plan A around.


AND now she want to start back up the relationship with the OM that she cheated with.


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## markster (Nov 20, 2012)

Actually, during the break, she began counselling for her sexual abuse, some of which explored boundary issues of many types. 

You are all right, she has(d) boundary issues. She insists that she is aware of them and has dealt with them. Not entirely sure how, but she has made several statements since where she clearly identifies boundary situations of other types, where she sees problems in others behaviour ... but not in hers.

I left some things out just to keep from writing a novel instead of a post, but I essentially came to the same conclusion as Shaggy awhile ago. She threw up a big smoke screen as to why the initial break up had to occur (issues with sexual abuse), and although I doubt seeing other people was her primary reason .. I have no doubt that it eventually occurred to her that it was a fringe benefit and our separate residences and periods of days without communication made it all the more easy.

As for your "writing it another way", I say that it is a pretty bang on
assessment of the situation.

She has not said she wants to start up the relationship, just that while we were discussing (arguing) it, she expressed resentment at no longer being able to see him "as a friend", even though she ended the "friendship" of her own accord a few months earlier and made sure to tell me that she had ... obviously realizing that I wouldn't have touched her with a ten foot pole had she not.

We have started actively working together with material from a very good website called marriagebuilders.com. She has not resisted this work and even has suggested that we continue to explore some of the concepts on the site, which I find encouraging. We are just about to explore the section on honesty, openness and infidelity (how to protect against) so that could prove to be a tricky topic but I am determined to work through it with her and see if that opens some doors to honest discussion.

As for the definition of "Trickle-Truth" (found elsewhere on this site) .. this describes her with stunning accuracy ... only revealing as much as she thinks I already know to come across as honest & truthful, but I have a strong suspicion that there is more to it than she would like me to know. I know a big reason that she does not like to discuss the events of the past is that she tends to eventually catch herself up in the lies that she told previously.

Thanks for all of your replies.


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## markster (Nov 20, 2012)

Ovid said:


> You seriously need out. There are red flags all over your post, and not for just one A.
> 
> You are her security while she plays the field.


I want to save my marriage and this relationship with her, although, I will say, to rewrite your response ...

More accurately. I am her security until I say something that she doesn't like which she then believes will justify her to play the field again.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I don't see any indication in your post that she's truly back with you. Nothing has changed, except you returned and apparently are condoning the status quo. I would expect more cheating as a direct consequence of your apathy. If you don't enforce boundaries, who will?


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## markster (Nov 20, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I don't see any indication in your post that she's truly back with you. Nothing has changed, except you returned and apparently are condoning the status quo. I would expect more cheating as a direct consequence of your apathy. If you don't enforce boundaries, who will?


I hear what you are saying. you are correct. I am in the process of enforcing boundaries, which I had many times in the past, but she neglected to tell me (lied) that only one of us was working on the relationship (me) while she began to look around and eventually find her plan B, at which point getting along with me began to look less appealing.


Thanks for your feedback.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

No offense Mark but you ARE the plan B.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

walkonmars said:


> No offense Mark but you ARE the plan B.


Yes. This.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

markster said:


> I want to save my marriage and this relationship with her, although, I will say, to rewrite your response ...
> 
> More accurately. I am her security until I say something that she doesn't like which she then believes will justify her to play the field again.


You know this and you went back for seconds??? BTW, that is not a marriage, so IMO there isn't anything to save right now.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

*(Something she orchestrated behind my back months before she told me she wanted to)*

This and "dating" another man.And claiming nothing happened

Oh well


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

Sorry but this has *DISASTER* written all over it. 

It reminds me of that story of a man in a dingy/boat in the middle of the ocean trying to keep his boat(GF)stay afloat. But the boat keeps springing holes flooding the boat....when he plugs one hole, two other ones pop up. :scratchhead:


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

All she is learning thru marriage builders is how to hide better. You actually took the word of a lier that nothing happened, after months of hiding the meetings, then dating him during the breakup.

Ok, pay attention, "YOU are in the BS fog".

That's the only reason I can see for you to ACTUALLY marry this woman.

If I was you, I would FIRE the IC. This person let's you talk, until they find what you want, then help you accept how to get it.

You are the plan b man. Do you really think you got the real lowdown on the meets with other guys, before the break ??
Why even bring them up?? TO TEST YOUR RESPONSE.
She was setting the stage for the separation. Of course you STILL don't believe it, but she was getting ready to bang other guys.
During those arguements blackouts is when she spent the night with him.
She didn't want you calling or coming around.

I TRULY hope you are starting to see how well you have been played.

OH, she came back, bc he dumped her, or wouldn't commit.
Even so, she is STILL stuck on him. She wants to still see him. Thats so she can show him she can be happy without him. But I bet, he would be hitting it in no time.

You want to settle this some ??

ASK FOR A POLYGRAPH

How can you as a grown man believe she went thru all this just for a friendship??
How can you marry a woman who won't admit she was wrong an come COMPLETELY clean ???
How can you marry a woman who see NOTHING wrong with what she did ??

Annulment man.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Would you leave her if she had a physical affair ? Why don't you contact this guy ?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

"MMM-MMM! Delicious cake!" she said. 

She is a cake eater. Just get over it. Oh! But wait! She said nothing happened! So what, exactly, does she think you need to 'just get over'?:scratchhead:

Did her therapist really tell her you separate from you? If so, did she lie to the therapist about you?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

markster said:


> I hear what you are saying. you are correct. I am in the process of enforcing boundaries, which I had many times in the past, but she neglected to tell me (lied) that only one of us was working on the relationship (me) while she began to look around and *eventually find her plan *B, at which point getting along with me began to look less appealing.
> 
> 
> Thanks for your feedback.


Hate to tell you this....

YOU are her plan B. 

Man you need to wake up.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The excuse that he needed to not be around you to get help for her abuse is ridiculous . Abuse is what she has done to you.

You really need to investigate her phone call logs/ texts/ emails computer use etc. I doubt she has been faithful since welll before hse came up with the her moving out scheme.

Get VAR for her car, check who she is texting , and keylog the computer.

Does she go out at all with out you?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You can't nice her back into being a faithful loving spouse. She has to want to be that.

the problem you face is your wife is not interested in being loving, faithful, or in loving you. She is interested in negotiating the terms of her freedom to have extramarital relationships whenever the mood or opporunity strikes her.

She reminds me of a story I read a long while ago about a wife who demand a "break" to work on bettering the marriage etc. The break in fact was nothing but cover so she could go on a cruise with her OM.

That's your wife.

You can't live happily if your spending all your emotional effort constantly try to run interference to catch your wife's plans to step out. You can't be on the defensive each and every day of your marriage.

In short your wife must choose to be in the marriage unconditionally, and that's the core of the problem you are facing, because she won't do it unconditionally.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

If Bandit.45 says it, it must be so. I am not being flippant. This is not a joke. Get away from this poison that you married. NOW!


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Hate to tell you this....
> 
> *YOU are her plan B. *
> 
> Man you need to wake up.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Look, we are not trying to run you down.We are trying to give you advice from the history of women that we have been married to. You do not have to settle for this woman. You do not need this drama EVER! Life is way to short for any of the BS that you are putting up with. I know its hard, but walk away from the problem. End it and meet some new people and if you think we were wrong after THREE YEARS and ten women, you can go back to her. Good Luck and God Bless David


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

You could look up www.doccool.com and scan around there to see what your wife is thinking and saying to her best male friend. Maybe it will open your eyes.


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## Simon Phoenix (Aug 9, 2010)

What the rest of them said. You are the backup guy, her plan B, her security blanket in case she can't get the other man to commit to her. One can try to rationalize the situation all he wants but it is what it is. She acted this way because she knew that if all else fails, she can always come home to ye ole standby; YOU. And so far, she's been right, bullseye on the mark.

Dude, it's time to pull the rug from under her like Lucy pulls the football away from Charlie Brown. You have no kids with her so you don't have to worry about child support. You haven't been with her long enough to think of alimony. Why are you still there?

Dropkick this cheater and move on. There are plenty of women out there who are just as attractive who won't think of you as some consolation prize. I'm learning that every single day...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## markster (Nov 20, 2012)

chapparal said:


> The excuse that he needed to not be around you to get help for her abuse is ridiculous . Abuse is what she has done to you.
> 
> You really need to investigate her phone call logs/ texts/ emails computer use etc. I doubt she has been faithful since welll before hse came up with the her moving out scheme.
> 
> ...


When she is done work, we are always together. If she goes out for coffee with her (other) girlfriend every now & then, I will drive her there & pick her up. We are together or I know exactly where she is outside of work at all times. Now, work is another matter, she is gone for 42 + hours a week in a job where she travels around the neighboring community. She works with her girl-friend (the one that helped her cheat before) and they will occasionally go back to her place to discuss work. This is the most troubling aspect of all to me for future transgressions.

Text messages that come in to her phone in my presence, she always reads out to me as they are either from her girl-friends or son. She got pissy with me one time because I asked if she was sharing personal info of our life with her g/f again. She told me to check the phone myself. I did not, but she knows that I would in a heartbeat if I thought something remotely fishy was up. She also leaves her phone lying around unattended regularly where she knows I could easily pick it up & give it a quick look if I felt like it and I will admit I have succumbed to curiosity a few times with no red flags seen. I also have her email password.

Not going to start keylogging the computer and GPSing her car anytime soon, if ever. Maybe if I start to see suspicious behaviour recurring, but at the moment there is none.

My original post focused primarily on her behaviour of the past and her present refusal to admit that she had done anything wrong. Her present actions from the standpoint of suspicious behaviour have been not in the least worrisome to me. Besides, I do not believe for a moment that she has the balls to carry on anything inappropriate where she has the remotest chance of me catching her. She had opportunity when we were not living under the same roof. We are now.

She also knows that she is out of chances and I would divorce her in an instant and expose her to friends, family & coworkers without a second thought.

I realize fully that I WAS the Plan B before. I just was doing some venting and looking for input into how NOT to become the Plan B again. I also fully realize that her refusal to admit wrongdoing from the past is a virtual guarantee that it will happen again in the future. This is the work that we are currently doing.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

markster said:


> When she is done work, we are always together. If she goes out for coffee with her (other) girlfriend every now & then, I will drive her there & pick her up. We are together or I know exactly where she is outside of work at all times. Now, work is another matter, she is gone for 42 + hours a week in a job where she travels around the neighboring community. She works with her girl-friend (the one that helped her cheat before) and they will occasionally go back to her place to discuss work. This is the most troubling aspect of all to me for future transgressions.
> 
> Text messages that come in to her phone in my presence, she always reads out to me as they are either from her girl-friends or son. She got pissy with me one time because I asked if she was sharing personal info of our life with her g/f again. She told me to check the phone myself. I did not, but she knows that I would in a heartbeat if I thought something remotely fishy was up. She also leaves her phone lying around unattended regularly where she knows I could easily pick it up & give it a quick look if I felt like it and I will admit I have succumbed to curiosity a few times with no red flags seen. I also have her email password.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you have it all figured out. Good luck!


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## markster (Nov 20, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> "MMM-MMM! Delicious cake!" she said.
> 
> She is a cake eater. Just get over it. Oh! But wait! She said nothing happened! So what, exactly, does she think you need to 'just get over'?:scratchhead:
> 
> Did her therapist really tell her you separate from you? If so, did she lie to the therapist about you?


Yes, I believe she lied to her therapist and group, and friends, (and certainly the two that she was seeing) about me. Cake eater most definately she was.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

She is deceptive and she doesn't respect you.

She lies about you. More disrespect. 

YOU should be the one to make the moves, not her. She has too much power in this relationship. If my wife had ever been open about "expanding her horizons", I would have nipped that in the bud right there and then. Unfortunately for me she was a very good liar and kept her affair in secret. 

Do not ever have a child with her. EVER!!!! She will hurt that child by cheating on you and leaving. Looks like she's already done that before.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

markster said:


> Many things happened, I re-enetered the picture, and she expressed some remorse for many things that happened and She said that "mistakes were made" and she was sorry she hurt me.


Do you know that mistakes were made is code for the OM and I banged our brains out?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Get an annulment while the getting's good. 

You can always re-marry her later if she cleans up her act.


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## MisterRitter (Sep 1, 2012)

It sounds like she does not acknowledge that what she did was wrong. If it wasn't wrong, why won't she do it again?


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Hey Markster, are you going to update us. You might not believe it but we care. Thats' why we come here and stay.

But as a reminder. Go back over your thread. Yes, you was plan a, but also she wanted to play with this friend that kept throwing this guy at her. THAT,, was the WHOLE reason for moving. And if you think otherwise, good luck with that.
???? what is excuse will she use the next time,
AND, there will be a next time as long as she has that friend.
That friend showed she has no respect for your relationship. So I hope you put her out of bounds.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

markster said:


> I am not trying to continue to torture or blame her, I am just looking for reassurance that this same situation will not reoccur in our marriage, and I think step one of that is to have her be totally transparent and stop with the displays of anger and exasperation whenever I don't appreciate her speaking of the time as a "positive growth period" for her, etc.


While you have gotten some good advice, this passage jumped out at me. In a nutshell, she is allowed to discuss and reveal her feelings and you are required to acknowledge and support them, while you are not given the same courtesy.

This tells me that you have an very unbalanced relationship. It also indicates a lack of respect for you, which in view of her past behavior is a big problem. That lack of balance respect can lead her to continue to push boundaries.


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## markster (Nov 20, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> Hey Markster, are you going to update us. You might not believe it but we care. Thats' why we come here and stay.
> 
> But as a reminder. Go back over your thread. Yes, you was plan a, but also she wanted to play with this friend that kept throwing this guy at her. THAT,, was the WHOLE reason for moving. And if you think otherwise, good luck with that.
> ???? what is excuse will she use the next time,
> ...


Hey all (and Old Wolf):

OK, update. 
I have read all of the replies and I appreciate everyones honest opinions. 

The relationship has been poor as of late and very roller-coaster-sh. Although I do not believe that she has had communication with other man (men) I cannot be at all 100% certain of this as although when she is home from work (no working late, no time away from me when she is home, etc.) I cannot be at all certain that when she is at work, because she is in a job with very loose boundaries and little accountability for her presence in the office. She could say "I am going to visit client A, B and C this afternoon and head home from there" and poterntially do nothing of the sort with no correlation between either the client or her superiors or myself, unless it got out of hand or was caught directly in a lie. Of course this creates huge opportunities for her to come and go and do as she pleases and if I have learned anything from all I have read and know in my gut all along ... she is a woman of opportunity.

Now she is back on the "I am my own woman" rant and if you question anything I say or do, or ask simple questions as to where I went today at work, I will cry abuse in the form of it being an "inqusition". Although, she is very careful to never say that I do not trust her, as even though it has not directly come up in months, she knows that would be an opening for me to respond with "and tell me just why I should be trusting you".

Someone rather accuratey pointed out that she needs to distance herself from her girl-friend who helped her betray me in the first place, and that her friend was definately not a friend of the relationship. Dead-on accurate evaluation of the situation. She started to do this (distance herself from her g/f) shortly after we were married, but since we have been having the troubles of late, this woman has wiggled her way back into her life. They are coworkers and text and chat several times a day, both at work & at home (which always interrupts any undivided attention time we have). Wife is like Pavlovs' dog with her cell phone. It beeps and she is on it in seconds, and stays on it for 20 to 30 minutes at a time with g/f regardless of whether it is at dinner or if we are watching TV together or are having a conversation or whatever. Wife sees girl-friend 40 hours give or take a week and spends probably another hour or so a week texting with her. If I complain or even so much as frown at this, I will hear about how I am never happy and that she needs to be her own woman and that I am standing in the way of that with my "negativity".

Last night g/f needed to borrow her car (this happens probably twice a month for some reason or other) because hers is in teh shop, so we have wife handing over the keys to her and driving over an hour out of her way to drive girl-friend home at the end of it all today. Wife cannot say no to g/f. Wife has NO problem saying no to me. Oh, and OM lives 5 minutes from girl-friends house.

Yes, people I hear what you are all saying and please keep it coming. At the moment I am not in a financial position to leave but when I do, I will need to speak to a lawyer, to make sure I don't end up getting screwed in some way.

Last night she said "You know, you need to forgive me for what happened in the summer or we will never move forward". Well, as many here have likely found, forgiving her is kinda like hitting a moving target in the wind in a rowboat. I'm happy to forgive if I can be guaranteed, or at least reasonably certain of:

A) What I am forgiving.
I forgave her in the summer time after what I believed to be heartfelt and honest discussion with her as to what went on. Turns out a few months later, there was more to the strory and then a few weeks after that there was still more. Trickle truth.

B) Admission of responsibility for her actions.
Thought I had that, but if we get into it after the fact and she returns to "I never did anythng wrong, we were just friends"

C) A verbal heartfelt guarantee that it will never happen again. (Yes, I know, it's probably not worth much but its a start)

Nope. Asked for that months ago and I got "I'm sorry I hurt you" Which is kinda like asking someone to pass the salt and they hand you a jar of jam, and stare blankly at you when you don't happily thank them and spread it all over your dinner.

That's all for now. Thanks again.
M


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

So you're back to square 1.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

VAR in her car and one in the house.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

She's got the same mindset of her toxic gf. All this talk of "being her own woman" came directly from the bff. 

Next time she says you're standing in her way, tell her it's funny she said that because that's the way she's made you feel - and that you will soon be out of her way in a permanent way. 

I'm serious. Just say that and walk away. It's a factual statement and doesn't need to be expanded on. She has made you feel that way - it's non-arguable. And you will rectify that little reality. Case closed.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

tom67 said:


> VAR in her car and one in the house.


You need to do this , You need to find out what is going on behind your back if anything. 

She doesn't seem to respect you at all.

Have you read Married Man Sex Life?


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Perhaps a minor point, but there is no legal concept of "common law" marriage in English and Welsh law. This may be different where you live but is worth bearing in mind.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

markster said:


> Hey all (and Old Wolf):
> 
> OK, update.
> I have read all of the replies and I appreciate everyones honest opinions.
> ...


Hide a GPS in WW car. VAR in WW car and house. Key logger on PC. Access to WW cell, phone bills. Must get rid of toxic GF. That means WW has to get a new job or Toxic GF has to leave the job.

You are where you are because you are letting your WW control recovery.


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## markster (Nov 20, 2012)

staystrong said:


> She is deceptive and she doesn't respect you.
> 
> She lies about you. More disrespect.
> 
> ...



Yes, I agree totally with what you are saying. 

The "expanding her horizons" comment was made in the midst of all of the other lies about with whom, where, how and especially when she chose to do the expanding. Unfortunately some of the most serious lies did not come to light until after we were married and she had already spent months spinning a very elaborate and plausible accounting of the events. She was very good at playing the gullible, naive victim of an elaborate scheme hatched by her girl-friend. Unfortunately I was very bad at realizing the extent to which I had been played or more to the point, very bad at getting away from and staying away from someone that I knew was bad news.

Sadly, I was in counselling at the time, and believeing all counsellors were good ... sat there and described for hours to him all she had done to me in the past ... and many sessions later (after my anger had subsided) ... after me wondering if she and I should reunite, he said it sounded like a good idea (??)

She & I have already had our children and more is not an option.

As for me making the moves and not alowing her to continue to snow me, I have already started this process and have learned a lot from TAM and a few other sites. 

Thanks,
M


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

M, the only process you need to be starting NOW is the 180 while saving for the D.

You have read how they react when the R is false.
Now you are seeing it now that things have settled a lil.

She is now on the " training you program "
You took her back without getting the full truth, and she KNOW she would not have believed you, if the shoe was on the other foot.
But you believe her enough to take her back, so in her eyes now, you are whooped. 
She now see's you like a dog that barks a lot on a chain, but run when turned loose.
Now the program calls for her to train you to STOP questioning her so she can get on with MORE than twice monthly hookups with om when she takes her home.

Dude, it's time to bury this stinking mess.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

I just got to say this, cause you NEED to hear it.

I told you so !!!!
Marriage builders to her is to learn how to cheat better.

Dude, in all your reading here, how in the hell could you let her remain friends with that gf??
That's another - on your card in her eyes.

Bury this mess.


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