# Should I be Concerned over possible nude massages?



## wolverine512

I’m wondering what other men think about this. Prior to me and my girlfriend meeting, she started having sex with her massage therapist during her sessions. He was actually a Chiropractor. They apparently had hooked up a few times. She had been recently divorced and explained to me that she was “looking for love in all the wrong place”. After some time, she asked the Chiro about the status of their “relationship”. His response was “You were naked”. So she stopped seeing him. 

Fast forward a few years and she still gets nude massages from a different male massage therapist at Massage Envy. I don’t know for sure what this means. Is she naked under a blanket and being draped or is she lying on the table naked with no draping? I had not thought to ask this question. I have just assumed that she gets draped. But then I noticed something prior to her last massage. My son happened to have a basketball game just down the street from where she gets massaged so I was going to drop her off after our first game. We were pressed for time to get to the game yet while getting ready she took the time to lady scape. Usually this is something she does when not pressed for time and I found it odd that she had to fit this in, given the little time we had to get to the game. After thinking about it, it dawned on me that she was probably lady scaping in preparation for this massage and now I’m concerned that she is fully nude (not draped) during her massage sessions.

When she had originally told me the Chiropractor story and divulged that she is nude during massages, I had only asked her why she goes nude but did not think to ask her if she is being draped or not. Her response was that she didn’t want the therapist to see her underwear. I thought this was a strange reason but I accepted it. But, I let her know that I am against her getting nude massages and insist that she wear underwear. She agreed but then we have not talked about it again so I don’t know if she is complying with my request or not. And frankly, if she’s being draped, I guess maybe it’s not that big of a deal. But if she is indeed naked on the table with no draping, then this is something I am not comfortable with and may even consider it a deal breaker, particularly given the Chiropractor incident. 

We have an amazing relationship. She is super affectionate and we have sex a lot – pretty much daily, on weekends, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day. She has given me no other reason whatsoever to question her fidelity. I really love this woman but the more I think about this the more it is driving me crazy that the woman I love MAY be allowing another man to see her naked. And, she gets 2 hour massages so when she goes, I am beside myself with jealousy wondering what’s going on at her session. It’s horrible. I hate feeling this way.

I do occasionally have some minor jealousy issues, I’ll be honest. It’s only when we go out dancing and I drink too much. We have always been able to communicate about times when my jealousy has reared its ugly head so it’s not been a huge problem. But, I’m concerned if I press her on this topic she may pull out the jealousy card and I’m trying hard to work on my jealousy because I know it’s not a good thing. 

So, I’m wondering how many men would be ok with their SO being totally nude in this scenario, given there is history of lines being crossed and what would you do if you found out for sure that she is still doing totally nude massages?


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## minimalME

I'm always nude during a massage - with a towel draped over me (when I'm on my stomach) that's moved around when my legs and back are worked on. 

When I'm on my back, I do have my breasts and trunk covered, and they simply move the towel around as needed.

Personally, I prefer a female masseuse, and the only time I've had a male was when I forgot to request a female when I made the appointment. Interestingly, he gave the worst massage I've ever had.

But to address your one concern, I've never, ever worn clothing during a massage. And I've had both 1 and 2 hour massages. 

And I've never once had anyone touch me in an inappropriate way.


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## hairyhead

Ask her?

We would only be guessing.


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## SadSamIAm

Whenever I have had a massage, pretty much my entire body is covered. I love when they have heated blankets. 

The masseuse will move the blankets to have access to the portion they are massaging. They leave the rest of your body covered as they don't want you to get chilled. 

I would find it very strange to have a massage and just be laying on the table with no draping.


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## wolverine512

If she was seeing a female therapist I wouldn't be concerned at all or if I knew she was covered up. Seems to me like a lot could be visible with a small towel though. Since you're female, what would your response be if your SO (husband or boyfriend) asked you to no longer get nude massages from a male OR at least be draped? I don't have a problem with her getting massaged by a male. It's just the total nudity thing that I have issues with. Thanks!


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## Tilted 1

wolverine512 said:


> I’m wondering what other men think about this. Prior to me and my girlfriend meeting, she started having sex with her massage therapist during her sessions. He was actually a Chiropractor. They apparently had hooked up a few times. She had been recently divorced and explained to me that she was “looking for love in all the wrong place”. After some time, she asked the Chiro about the status of their “relationship”. His response was “You were naked”. So she stopped seeing him.
> 
> Fast forward a few years and she still gets nude massages from a different male massage therapist at Massage Envy. I don’t know for sure what this means. Is she naked under a blanket and being draped or is she lying on the table naked with no draping? I had not thought to ask this question. I have just assumed that she gets draped. But then I noticed something prior to her last massage. My son happened to have a basketball game just down the street from where she gets massaged so I was going to drop her off after our first game. We were pressed for time to get to the game yet while getting ready she took the time to lady scape. Usually this is something she does when not pressed for time and I found it odd that she had to fit this in, given the little time we had to get to the game. After thinking about it, it dawned on me that she was probably lady scaping in preparation for this massage and now I’m concerned that she is fully nude (not draped) during her massage sessions.
> 
> When she had originally told me the Chiropractor story and divulged that she is nude during massages, I had only asked her why she goes nude but did not think to ask her if she is being draped or not. Her response was that she didn’t want the therapist to see her underwear. I thought this was a strange reason but I accepted it. But, I let her know that I am against her getting nude massages and insist that she wear underwear. She agreed but then we have not talked about it again so I don’t know if she is complying with my request or not. And frankly, if she’s being draped, I guess maybe it’s not that big of a deal. But if she is indeed naked on the table with no draping, then this is something I am not comfortable with and may even consider it a deal breaker, particularly given the Chiropractor incident.
> 
> We have an amazing relationship. She is super affectionate and we have sex a lot – pretty much daily, on weekends, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day. She has given me no other reason whatsoever to question her fidelity. I really love this woman but the more I think about this the more it is driving me crazy that the woman I love MAY be allowing another man to see her naked. And, she gets 2 hour massages so when she goes, I am beside myself with jealousy wondering what’s going on at her session. It’s horrible. I hate feeling this way.
> 
> I do occasionally have some minor jealousy issues, I’ll be honest. It’s only when we go out dancing and I drink too much. We have always been able to communicate about times when my jealousy has reared its ugly head so it’s not been a huge problem. But, I’m concerned if I press her on this topic she may pull out the jealousy card and I’m trying hard to work on my jealousy because I know it’s not a good thing.
> 
> So, I’m wondering how many men would be ok with their SO being totally nude in this scenario, given there is history of lines being crossed and what would you do if you found out for sure that she is still doing totally nude massages?


Not!!


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## minimalME

As a female, I would understand your concerns, and it wouldn't be a problem for me to commit to female only - for my husband.

A boyfriend is a boyfriend - not a husband. They aren't the same thing.



wolverine512 said:


> If she was seeing a female therapist I wouldn't be concerned at all or if I knew she was covered up. Seems to me like a lot could be visible with a small towel though. Since you're female, what would your response be if your SO (husband or boyfriend) asked you to no longer get nude massages from a male OR at least be draped? I don't have a problem with her getting massaged by a male. It's just the total nudity thing that I have issues with. Thanks!


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## wolverine512

hairyhead said:


> Ask her?
> 
> We would only be guessing.


I intend too - but I'm trying to first figure out if I'm overreacting, I guess.


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## wolverine512

minimalME said:


> As a female, I would understand your concerns, and it wouldn't be a problem for me to commit to female only - for my husband.
> 
> A boyfriend is a boyfriend - not a husband. They aren't the same thing.


We do live together and are in a committed relationship but both of us have agreed to do the marriage thing again but we treat our relationship the same as if we were married.


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## Tilted 1

wolverine512 said:


> We do live together and are in a committed relationship but both of us have agreed to do the marriage thing again but we treat our relationship the same as if we were married.


Err huh, not the same, and her actions show it.


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## Cynthia

I don't think it's unreasonable for you to ask her not to see male massage therapists. She seems to have some boundary issues.


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## Middle of Everything

Mine would be a big NO on Sven giving my wife 2 hour long nude massages.

Especially if she banged Kristof before in the same situation.


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## wolverine512

Cynthia said:


> I don't think it's unreasonable for you to ask her not to see male massage therapists. She seems to have some boundary issues.


To be fair to her, she was recently divorced and single at the time and she explained that she was "looking for love in all the wrong places". She was genuinely embarrassed by the whole thing but who knows, maybe she was embarrassed because of my reaction more than what had happened. To be clear, I don't have issues with what she did before we met. We all have done things we are embarrassed about. But, with this history, it does play a role in what goes on in my mind every time she gets a massage. And in general, my traditional values (right or wrong) tell me that it's a reasonable expectation that my girlfriend not be nude in front of other men, with some exceptions. But, 2 hour long massages, behind closed doors with a member of the opposite sex is not one of these exceptions.


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## wolverine512

Tilted 1 said:


> Err huh, not the same, and her actions show it.


Can you clarify what you mean. What is not the same, do you mean us not being married is not the same as if we were?


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## Tilted 1

Sure, you would be surprised just how much that little piece of paper means. I changes everything there is nothing at risk right now and if you possibly think it's the same it not. As of right now either of you can get up and leave not saying it doesn't or couldn't happen in marriage (it does all the time).

But it a commitment the paper no matter how much it looks like on the surface, it changes a person view and loyalty to the partner. (It should, or l say it should!) But once the step has been taken everything is differently it no longer just me but us and the willingness to do everything within reason to compromise to make the other partner feel and be safe with the choices he/she makes as a couple not as a single person who lives with someone for the moment, but also knows that that can change anytime.


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## wolverine512

Tilted 1 said:


> Sure, you would be surprised just how much that little piece of paper means. I changes everything there is nothing at risk right now and if you possibly think it's the same it not. As of right now either of you can get up and leave not saying it doesn't or couldn't happen in marriage (it does all the time).
> 
> But it a commitment the paper no matter how much it looks like on the surface, it changes a person view and loyalty to the partner. (It should, or l say it should!) But once the step has been taken everything is differently it no longer just me but us and the willingness to do everything within reason to compromise to make the other partner feel and be safe with the choices he/she makes as a couple not as a single person who lives with someone for the moment, but also knows that that can change anytime.


I understand what you're saying. I think there should still be reasonable expectations in a committed relationship. For me, it might be me being the one to leave if I confirm that she is getting totally nude massages. This is where I'm at for the moment. But of course, I would hope that we could find a compromise. I'm a reasonable person and the stakes are high on this, so I'm trying to really consider all sides to this before I have the conversation with her. We have such an amazing relationship, I feel like I might be cutting off my nose to spite myself if I take the hard line and break up with her, yet I'm not sure that I could live with it indefinitely having to pace the floor in complete angst, every time she gets a massage.


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## wilson

I'm not a massage expert, but it is very common to be nude while getting a legitimate massage. However, a 2-hour massage seems longer than typical massages.

I think one thing you need to worry about is even if she's not having sex during the session, there's a good chance she's enjoying it in a somewhat sexual aspect. It might be the way you would enjoy a massage differently if a hot woman was giving you a massage versus a man. It may be titillating even if nothing overtly sexual is going on and the therapist is totally clinical.

Since you're just dating, I don't feel you have the right to demand she change. You can express your displeasure, but if she doesn't want to change, then accept that at face value and decide how you want to move forward. I would guess if your GF does this, there are likely going to be a lot of other similar behaviors along this same line. If that's not the type of person you want to be with, you're better off finding someone more compatible than trying to get her to change.


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## wolverine512

wilson said:


> I'm not a massage expert, but it is very common to be nude while getting a legitimate massage. However, a 2-hour massage seems longer than typical massages.
> 
> I think one thing you need to worry about is even if she's not having sex during the session, there's a good chance she's enjoying it in a somewhat sexual aspect. It might be the way you would enjoy a massage differently if a hot woman was giving you a massage versus a man. It may be titillating even if nothing overtly sexual is going on and the therapist is totally clinical.
> 
> Since you're just dating, I don't feel you have the right to demand she change. You can express your displeasure, but if she doesn't want to change, then accept that at face value and decide how you want to move forward. I would guess if your GF does this, there are likely going to be a lot of other similar behaviors along this same line. If that's not the type of person you want to be with, you're better off finding someone more compatible than trying to get her to change.


Agreed. If I confirm this is what's going on, then she will either agree to compromise or not. If she is not agreeable, then it will be my decision to stay or go. In every other aspect of her life, she is squeaky clean. We are attached at the hip all the time outside of work and the occasional dinner out wither her girlfriends where she is gone for 2 hours tops. I literally have no other reason whatsoever to question her in regards to fidelity.


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## arbitrator

*If a married woman is left alone naked with a male masseur, who is not her husband or significant other, then I'd say "Hell to the yes!" 

And I'd say that the same holds true in the instance of a married man left alone naked with a female masseuse in the exact same circumstances!

Why would one try to tempt fate?*


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## BluesPower

I am not a prude in any way. 

But me, in this case, esp since she was banging her chiropractor, yeah I would not go for this at all. 

And, if my GF asked for me to not have a female MT, then I would agree no questions asked. 

That is just me though...


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## Tilted 1

wolverine512 said:


> I understand what you're saying. I think there should still be reasonable expectations in a committed relationship. For me, it might be me being the one to leave if I confirm that she is getting totally nude massages. This is where I'm at for the moment. But of course, I would hope that we could find a compromise. I'm a reasonable person and the stakes are high on this, so I'm trying to really consider all sides to this before I have the conversation with her. We have such an amazing relationship, I feel like I might be cutting off my nose to spite myself if I take the hard line and break up with her, yet I'm not sure that I could live with it indefinitely having to pace the floor in complete angst, every time she gets a massage.


No l don't think your unreasonable, and you do believe that your relationship is exactly as a married person, but l guess she doesn't see it this way. And you thinking of the nose thing nope, you just expect more from her but she isn't seeing it this way so if your we're married do you think she would respect you enough to stop nude massages? Or do you already know the answer, if you do know the answer there is nothing wrong for your partner to meet your expectations. Giving this up isn't much in the scheme of things.


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## sokillme

Nah, I would be out. Good luck with that.

Anyone who starts having sex with their Doctor during a normal appointment massage or not would be someone I would not waste my time with. That would be a huge red flag. This isn't porn.


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## wolverine512

BluesPower said:


> I am not a prude in any way.
> 
> But me, in this case, esp since she was banging her chiropractor, yeah I would not go for this at all.
> 
> And, if my GF asked for me to not have a female MT, then I would agree no questions asked.
> 
> That is just me though...


I would too. If she didn't want me to get massaged from a female, I would honor her request with no questions asked because the relationship means that much to me. In my case, I haven't gotten a massage from anyone other than my girlfriend, since I met her. We massage each other quite a bit, maybe 2-3 times per week but I typically give her more massages than she gives me just because I enjoy it. Probably part of me wants to massage her as often as needed so she'll feel less compelled to get the other massages. LOL


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## Tilted 1

wolverine512 said:


> I would too. If she didn't want me to get massaged from a female, I would honor her request with no questions asked because the relationship means that much to me. In my case, I haven't gotten a massage from anyone other than my girlfriend, since I met her. We massage each other quite a bit, maybe 2-3 times per week but I typically give her more massages than she gives me just because I enjoy it. Probably part of me wants to massage her as often as needed so she'll feel less compelled to get the other massages. LOL


This is the reason why you need to get to the bottom of this. What's the difference, a massage is just a massage guess not.


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## wilson

wolverine512 said:


> Agreed. If I confirm this is what's going on, then she will either agree to compromise or not. If she is not agreeable, then it will be my decision to stay or go. In every other aspect of her life, she is squeaky clean.


Think about if the massage behavior is an indication of what her personality is like at the core. Don't look at the massage as the problem and think if that stops, everything is good. Maybe she's the type to seek out these kinds of titillating activities under the guise of nothing is happening. Like, when she wants personal training, is she going to seek out the hunky guy to be her trainer because the environment is more fun and flirty that way?

And there's the issue of what started it all with the chiro. That, in and of itself, is problematic. A patient shouldn't be having a relationship with a doctor in the office. Regardless of what was going on in her life, that's a line that shouldn't have been crossed. It's nothing to do with marriage or affairs. So there is some moral flexibility to her that may create troublesome situations down the road.

I would think these kinds of situations she gets into are indicative of what kind of person she is. Likely this won't be the last situation like this you'll have to deal with.


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## wolverine512

Tilted 1 said:


> No l don't think your unreasonable, and you do believe that your relationship is exactly as a married person, but l guess she doesn't see it this way. And you thinking of the nose thing nope, you just expect more from her but she isn't seeing it this way so if your we're married do you think she would respect you enough to stop nude massages? Or do you already know the answer, if you do know the answer there is nothing wrong for your partner to meet your expectations. Giving this up isn't much in the scheme of things.


OK. But I haven't confirmed if she's totally nude. As I think I mentioned in a previous reply, if she is nude but being draped, then I'm much less concerned. I know massage therapists are skilled at massaging any level of dress but I also get that clothing can get in the way when for example, getting your glutes massaged. So nude but BEING draped = I can live with. Nude with NO draping = I cannot live with.


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## Tilted 1

Well maybe it's time for you to get massage lessons and get your degree.


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## Tilted 1

Then you can have the best of both worlds.


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## wolverine512

wilson said:


> Think about if the massage behavior is an indication of what her personality is like at the core. Don't look at the massage as the problem and think if that stops, everything is good. Maybe she's the type to seek out these kinds of titillating activities under the guise of nothing is happening. Like, when she wants personal training, is she going to seek out the hunky guy to be her trainer because the environment is more fun and flirty that way?
> 
> And there's the issue of what started it all with the chiro. That, in and of itself, is problematic. A patient shouldn't be having a relationship with a doctor in the office. Regardless of what was going on in her life, that's a line that shouldn't have been crossed. It's nothing to do with marriage or affairs. So there is some moral flexibility to her that may create troublesome situations down the road.
> 
> I would think these kinds of situations she gets into are indicative of what kind of person she is. Likely this won't be the last situation like this you'll have to deal with.


That's a good point. If she has been getting fully nude massages this whole time we've been dating, especially after telling me about the chiropractor incident, AND me letting her now that I am NOT comfortable with nude massages, then you might be right. Her and I may not have the same idea of what a committed relationship is supposed to be about. I shouldn't have to explain this to her and if I do, then were on opposite ends of the fidelity spectrum.


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## wolverine512

Tilted 1 said:


> Well maybe it's time for you to get massage lessons and get your degree.


Ha! I've thought about that. I do watch videos to learn how to give better massages. But honestly don't have time to go to school for this.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

wolverine512 said:


> I understand what you're saying. I think there should still be reasonable expectations in a committed relationship. For me, it *might be me being the one to leave if I confirm that she is getting totally nude massages*. This is where I'm at for the moment. But of course, I would hope that we could find a compromise. I'm a reasonable person and the stakes are high on this, so I'm trying to really consider all sides to this before I have the conversation with her. We have such an amazing relationship, I feel like I might be cutting off my nose to spite myself if I take the hard line and break up with her, yet I'm not sure that I could live with it indefinitely having to pace the floor in complete angst, every time she gets a massage.


This is something you may well be better deciding first.

If she's getting nude massages without fooling around is one circumstance. 

Or she's nude and fooling around, which is a different story.


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## Marduk

Had a ton of massages. So has my wife. Sometimes together in couples massages. Sometimes naked, sometimes not. Sometimes they are male, sometimes not. Always covered.

Never, ever had sex with any of them, or attempted to, or have had any of them be anything but professional.


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## wolverine512

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> This is something you may well be better deciding first.
> 
> If she's getting nude massages without fooling around is one circumstance.
> 
> Or she's nude and fooling around, which is a different story.


The problem is, if she is fooling around I doubt she would confess that to me. I mean if you were fooling around would you? And BTW, I really don't think she is fooling around. We have sex ALOT. I couldn't imagine her having a need for more - and we have had sex after her massage and I think I would be able to tell if she has already been satisfied this way for the day - if you know what I mean. But, in my opinion the appearance of impropriety is as bad as the impropriety itself. So my expectation in this situation is to avoid even the appearance of impropriety. Which means to me that if she is getting nude massage, the compromise would be to stop seeing males and find a good female therapist. If I find out she has been getting nude massage, I don't think her agreeing to be draped with the same therapist or even a different male therapist would be a sufficient compromise as the appearance of impropriety remains.


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## JustTheWife

At a low point in my life I had a massage with a male massage therapist and it went too far so it happens.

No legitimate massage is "undraped". Am I wrong?


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## wolverine512

Marduk said:


> Had a ton of massages. So has my wife. Sometimes together in couples massages. Sometimes naked, sometimes not. Sometimes they are male, sometimes not. Always covered.
> 
> Never, ever had sex with any of them, or attempted to, or have had any of them be anything but professional.


I'm glad to hear that.


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## wolverine512

JustTheWife said:


> No legitimate massage is "undraped". Am I wrong?


That's what I'm trying to figure out. I've never been updraped myself - It never even dawned on me that this was an option or something that goes on, besides perhaps in sleazy parlors..


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## BluesPower

wolverine512 said:


> OK. But I haven't confirmed if she's totally nude. As I think I mentioned in a previous reply, if she is nude but being draped, then I'm much less concerned. I know massage therapists are skilled at massaging any level of dress but I also get that clothing can get in the way when for example, getting your glutes massaged. So nude but BEING draped = I can live with. Nude with NO draping = I cannot live with.


I think you are off base. If she was actually nude, with no drape, GTFO and see you later. 

If she is draped, still not in favor of a Male MT. 

You have to ask yourself why she trimmed her bush, I mean if nothing is going on, then WTF???? My GF is concerned about what that looks like because she cares what I think. 

Who besides you would care what that looks like...


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## wolverine512

BluesPower said:


> I think you are off base. If she was actually nude, with no drape, GTFO and see you later.
> 
> If she is draped, still not in favor of a Male MT.
> 
> You have to ask yourself why she trimmed her bush, I mean if nothing is going on, then WTF???? My GF is concerned about what that looks like because she cares what I think.
> 
> Who besides you would care what that looks like...


Well, I'm trying to be reasonable and recognize the amazing relationship we have. Seriously, this is the most affectionate woman I have ever been with. I love her - ALOT. I'm trying to be reasonable and not throw out the baby with the bath water. I actually agree with you about not being in favor of nude/but being draped. If I had my way, she'd only get massages from females while wearing a snowmobile suit. LOL But I can't have everything. That's why I'd be looking for a compromise, something I may not be totally ok with but that I can live with.


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## wilson

wolverine512 said:


> And BTW, I really don't think she is fooling around. We have sex ALOT. I couldn't imagine her having a need for more - and we have had sex after her massage and I think I would be able to tell if she has already been satisfied this way for the day - if you know what I mean.


There's a lot of things on the sexual spectrum that could be going on. I doubt if you'd be able to tell if she got a "full body" massage (if you know what I mean). And although men are somewhat limited to how many O's they can have in a day, women aren't really like that. The women here can provide more details, but I would guess that she could have an O in the massage and then have no problem from a biological perspective having sex again and again with you later that day. We're just guessing at this point, but women have different sexual endurance than men. I'm not sure what conclusions you can draw from her having sex with you afterwards.


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## wolverine512

wilson said:


> There's a lot of things on the sexual spectrum that could be going on. I doubt if you'd be able to tell if she got a "full body" massage (if you know what I mean). And although men are somewhat limited to how many O's they can have in a day, women aren't really like that. The women here can provide more details, but I would guess that she could have an O in the massage and then have no problem from a biological perspective having sex again and again with you later that day. We're just guessing at this point, but women have different sexual endurance than men. I'm not sure what conclusions you can draw from her having sex with you afterwards.


I can tell. Trust me.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Hey, just go with her the next time she gets a massage, get a couples massage. 

This may be fraught with peril, it may bring things to a point you're trying to avoid. 

If she's really, adamantly against you "short notice" accompanying her, as you know that may be a sign. 

And if (a big if) nothing is happening she may resent such a flagrant display of you not trusting her.

But either you've got to bring the whole thing up or let it go.

It will drive you nuts riding the fence forever on what to do.


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## wolverine512

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Hey, just go with her the next time she gets a massage, get a couples massage.
> 
> This may be fraught with peril, it may bring things to a point you're trying to avoid.
> 
> If she's really, adamantly against you "short notice" accompanying her, as you know that may be a sign.
> 
> And if (a big if) nothing is happening she may resent such a flagrant display of you not trusting her.
> 
> But either you've got to bring the whole thing up or let it go.
> 
> It will drive you nuts riding the fence forever on what to do.


Not sure how couples massages work and if they have rooms available for two or even two therapists available the next time she goes. AND... the biggest thing for me is avoiding the public display of rage that would ensue if she were to be suddenly lying totally nude and exposed on the table. OMG! Besides, if this were something she is hiding from me, I'd have to believe she'd opt for draping this time.


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## wolverine512

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It will drive you nuts riding the fence forever on what to do.


It is driving me nuts. But I decided to talk this through with all you fine people so I can have the conversation calmly, having thought out what I will say and my response if I confirm what I hope is not going on. ☺


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## Tilted 1

wolverine512 said:


> Ha! I've thought about that. I do watch videos to learn how to give better massages. But honestly don't have time to go to school for this.


On line course, and or bluff it get a fake degree and she'll not know the difference or should l dare say she will have the best of what she wants. While it not strange fingers at work it just as well be your fingers doing what needs to be done.


----------



## ConanHub

Naaah! It'll be fine!!


----------



## Tilted 1

wolverine512 said:


> I'm glad to hear that.


But not everyone is that , as you described already. I just keep on hammering though.


----------



## 2ntnuf

I don't see any reason she cannot wear panties. She may get some massage oil on the leg and top openings. She can bring a baggie and change into a clean pair when her session is done. 

Any touching, particularly massage, if he is good, will turn on a woman. Well, unless she is 'dead'. I don't really give a damn if she is turned on or not. If she is in a committed relationship with me and we've discussed our commitment, I would not be okay with him rubbing her clit or entering her with a finger. That's a minimum. 

If we are dating and have not discussed boundaries we would share in a committed relationship, she can do as she pleases, as could I. 

Even in a committed relationship or marriage, there is nothing stopping a person from doing these things and no one finding out. I believe you should consider what type of relationship you have and what you want your boundaries to be. Discuss these things with her and see where she stands on them. 

Don't get angry. She can do as she pleases, but if she says one thing and does another, it's not okay. You and her do not need to be struggling with differing boundaries. No ***** or **** is worth that.


----------



## Tilted 1

wolverine512 said:


> Well, I'm trying to be reasonable and recognize the amazing relationship we have. Seriously, this is the most affectionate woman I have ever been with. I love her - ALOT. I'm trying to be reasonable and not throw out the baby with the bath water. I actually agree with you about not being in favor of nude/but being draped. If I had my way, she'd only get massages from females while wearing a snowmobile suit. LOL But I can't have everything. That's why I'd be looking for a compromise, something I may not be totally ok with but that I can live with.


Now your just moving the goal post it seems.


----------



## Tilted 1

wolverine512 said:


> Not sure how couples massages work and if they have rooms available for two or even two therapists available the next time she goes. AND... the biggest thing for me is avoiding the public display of rage that would ensue if she were to be suddenly lying totally nude and exposed on the table. OMG! Besides, if this were something she is hiding from me, I'd have to believe she'd opt for draping this time.


What's wrong with a little emotion?


----------



## wolverine512

Tilted 1 said:


> Now your just moving the goal post it seems.


Just trying to determine what I can live with and not.


----------



## Diana7

wolverine512 said:


> If she was seeing a female therapist I wouldn't be concerned at all or if I knew she was covered up. Seems to me like a lot could be visible with a small towel though. Since you're female, what would your response be if your SO (husband or boyfriend) asked you to no longer get nude massages from a male OR at least be draped? I don't have a problem with her getting massaged by a male. It's just the total nudity thing that I have issues with. Thanks!


There are far more female masseurs than male so she has no excuse at all to go to a man, especially as she has already had one sexual relationship with a male masseur. I would never let a man massage me in that way. If she objects to your very reasonable request to go to a female, then what does that say? 
There is also never any reason for her to lie there naked.


----------



## Tilted 1

wolverine512 said:


> Just trying to determine what I can live with and not.


I understand, just don't move them too much then you lose yourself.


----------



## wolverine512

Diana7 said:


> There are far more female masseurs than male so she has no excuse at all to go to a man, especially as she has already had one sexual relationship with a male masseur. I would never let a man massage me in that way. If she objects to your very reasonable request to go to a female, then what does that say?
> There is also never any reason for her to lie there naked.


I totally agree! The argument is that women aren't as strong but I know she could find one that would do just as good of a job.


----------



## Diana7

wolverine512 said:


> To be fair to her, she was recently divorced and single at the time and she explained that she was "looking for love in all the wrong places". She was genuinely embarrassed by the whole thing but who knows, maybe she was embarrassed because of my reaction more than what had happened. To be clear, I don't have issues with what she did before we met. We all have done things we are embarrassed about. But, with this history, it does play a role in what goes on in my mind every time she gets a massage. And in general, my traditional values (right or wrong) tell me that it's a reasonable expectation that my girlfriend not be nude in front of other men, with some exceptions. But, 2 hour long massages, behind closed doors with a member of the opposite sex is not one of these exceptions.


However he may have been married or in a relationship, and as a doctor it was totally wrong for both of them and he should be reported. Her excuses don't wash, she acted terribly and that alone would be a big red flag for me especially as she is still risking the same thing by going once again to a man for a massage. Where are her boundaries?


----------



## Diana7

wolverine512 said:


> I totally agree! The argument is that women aren't as strong but I know she could find one that would do just as good of a job.


Of course she would yes. There are countless female masseurs who are brilliant. If she claims they are not as good then one has to ask why she is so insistent about going to a man. I would feel so uncomfortable with a man apart from my husband being so intimate with my body.


----------



## Tilted 1

wolverine512 said:


> I totally agree! The argument is that women aren't as strong but I know she could find one that would do just as good of a job.


Then go but one of those vibration massage tables the chiropractor had in the offices for her to use at home, and together you can be creative and find other uses for the table. But there expensive but is your relationship worth it?


----------



## wolverine512

Diana7 said:


> However he may have been married or in a relationship, and as a doctor it was totally wrong for both of them and he should be reported. Her excuses don't wash, she acted terribly and that alone would be a big red flag for me especially as she is still risking the same thing by going once again to a man for a massage. Where are her boundaries?


I agree but the past is the past. I can't crucify her for something that happened in the past. I can only address what's happening now and the fact that the chiro thing happened will be one of my arguments for asking her to stop seeing male therapists. Remember, I love this woman. I want to be with her. I can accept that she has made mistakes in the past. I have too.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Hey, buy some quality edible massage oils. 

Give her a surprise, long, good massage at home. Maybe she has a thing about massage erotica.


----------



## wolverine512

I'm actually surprised by the opinions I'm getting. I tried another forum on a different site and everyone there seemed to be saying it's 2020 and in Europe nudity is not sexual and I don't have the right to have expectations of what she does with her body and I should just get over it. Glad there are others out there who believe what I believe that this is inappropriate. Glad for all of your responses.


----------



## wolverine512

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Hey, buy some quality edible massage oils.
> 
> Give her a surprise, long, good massage at home. Maybe she has a thing about massage erotica.


Except for the edible oil, this is happening already. :smile2:


----------



## Tilted 1

wolverine512 said:


> I agree but the past is the past. I can't crucify her for something that happened in the past. I can only address what's happening now and the fact that the chiro thing happened will be one of my arguments for asking her to stop seeing male therapists. Remember, I love this woman. I want to be with her. I can accept that she has made mistakes in the past. I have too.


Hum, I see that nice guy again.


----------



## wolverine512

Tilted 1 said:


> Hum, I see that nice guy again.


So you think I should break up with her even if I confirm she is no longer getting totally nude massages but is instead being draped, because of this indiscretion that happened before I met her?


----------



## BluesPower

wolverine512 said:


> I'm actually surprised by the opinions I'm getting. I tried another forum on a different site and everyone there seemed to be saying it's 2020 and in Europe nudity is not sexual and I don't have the right to have expectations of what she does with her body and I should just get over it. Glad there are others out there who believe what I believe that this is inappropriate. Glad for all of your responses.


Yeah, and if you feel it do it... 

Dude that type of horse**** is just that, horse ****.

Some people would be ok if masseuse gave her a happy ending, as long as he did not receive sexual satisfaction from her... People believe all kinds of F'ed up things. 

Here is the deal, if you want a monogamous relationship with me, sugar, you better be mono with me. That means no one else in any way.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

wolverine512 said:


> Except for the edible oil, this is happening already. :smile2:


Excellent! If you want, maybe set up everything like it would be at a massage parlor (sans expensive table), check out the oils (Amazon) and see if she responds to "the whole massage scenario" experience. 

Who knows? Good luck!


----------



## wolverine512

BluesPower said:


> Yeah, and if you feel it do it...
> 
> Dude that type of horse**** is just that, horse ****.
> 
> Some people would be ok if masseuse gave her a happy ending, as long as he did not receive sexual satisfaction from her... People believe all kinds of F'ed up things.
> 
> Here is the deal, if you want a monogamous relationship with me, sugar, you better be mono with me. That means no one else in any way.


That's exactly what I was getting. Many were saying, hey if it doesn't effect the relationship, what different does it make. In other words throw your principles, values and world view out the door. It's her body and she can do with it what she wants. You have no right to have any expectations of what someone else does. Everyone is doing it (In Europe anyway). There is also still a tribe in Africa that are cannibals. Does that mean we can eat people too? LOL


----------



## wolverine512

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Excellent! If you want, maybe set up everything like it would be at a massage parlor (sans expensive table), check out the oils (Amazon) and see if she responds to "the whole massage scenario" experience.
> 
> Who knows? Good luck!


You can get a table on Amazon for under $200.00


----------



## wolverine512

BluesPower said:


> Yeah, and if you feel it do it...
> 
> Dude that type of horse**** is just that, horse ****.
> 
> Some people would be ok if masseuse gave her a happy ending, as long as he did not receive sexual satisfaction from her... People believe all kinds of F'ed up things.
> 
> Here is the deal, if you want a monogamous relationship with me, sugar, you better be mono with me. That means no one else in any way.


I agree totally!


----------



## Diana7

wolverine512 said:


> That's exactly what I was getting. Many were saying, hey if it doesn't effect the relationship, what different does it make. In other words throw your principles, values and world view out the door. It's her body and she can do with it what she wants. You have no right to have any expectations of what someone else does. Everyone is doing it (In Europe anyway). There is also still a tribe in Africa that are cannibals. Does that mean we can eat people too? LOL


No not everyone in Europe is doing it. Very few in fact.


----------



## wolverine512

Diana7 said:


> No not everyone in Europe is doing it. Very few in fact.


According to people in other forums, it's a free for all in other parts of he world.


----------



## Diana7

wolverine512 said:


> I'm actually surprised by the opinions I'm getting. I tried another forum on a different site and everyone there seemed to be saying it's 2020 and in Europe nudity is not sexual and I don't have the right to have expectations of what she does with her body and I should just get over it. Glad there are others out there who believe what I believe that this is inappropriate. Glad for all of your responses.


They are wrong in what they say. The fact that similar treatment led to her having an affair with a so called professional before shows that nudity in that content can be very sexual. 
Yes if you are in a relationship with her or married you are perfectly within your right to say what you and will and wont accept. 
If a man I was with had already had one sexual relationship with a supposed professional in such similar circumstances there is no way that I would accept him going to another female for massages, not that I would be with a man who had acted that way anyway. She seems to have learnt nothing from it. 
Why dont you just say that you would like her to find a female masseur and see what she says. If she refuses your very reasonable request then you know where you stand.


----------



## Diana7

wolverine512 said:


> According to people in other forums, it's a free for all in other parts of he world.
> 
> Where do they actually live?


----------



## wolverine512

Diana7 said:


> wolverine512 said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to people in other forums, it's a free for all in other parts of he world.
> 
> Where do they actually live?
> 
> 
> 
> I think the people making these remarks live here in the US. The people they are referring too they say are in Europe.
Click to expand...


----------



## BluesPower

wolverine512 said:


> That's exactly what I was getting. Many were saying, hey if it doesn't effect the relationship, what different does it make. In other words throw your principles, values and world view out the door. It's her body and she can do with it what she wants. You have no right to have any expectations of what someone else does. Everyone is doing it (In Europe anyway). There is also still a tribe in Africa that are cannibals. Does that mean we can eat people too? LOL


You know what, your GF, my GF, whoever... yeah they can do whatever they want to. Sure, they just can't do it and keep me in their life. 

And, here is the deal, if she is serious about you, them you guys should be able to talk about this. If she gets pissed off about it then you kind of have your answer. 

For my money, you are being way, way to nice about this. 

I still want to know why she trimmed her bush. Frankly, if she did that I might break up with her on the spot. If no one is going to see it, then why trim it at that time. That is so fishy man.


----------



## wolverine512

Diana7 said:


> They are wrong in what they say. The fact that similar treatment led to her having an affair with a so called professional before shows that nudity in that content can be very sexual.
> Yes if you are in a relationship with her or married you are perfectly within your right to say what you and will and wont accept.
> If a man I was with had already had one sexual relationship with a supposed professional in such similar circumstances there is no way that I would accept him going to another female for massages, not that I would be with a man who had acted that way anyway. She seems to have learnt nothing from it.
> Why dont you just say that you would like her to find a female masseur and see what she says. If she refuses your very reasonable request then you know where you stand.


I plan to to do just that - ask her to find a female therapist.


----------



## wolverine512

BluesPower said:


> You know what, your GF, my GF, whoever... yeah they can do whatever they want to. Sure, they just can't do it and keep me in their life.
> 
> And, here is the deal, if she is serious about you, them you guys should be able to talk about this. If she gets pissed off about it then you kind of have your answer.
> 
> For my money, you are being way, way to nice about this.
> 
> I still want to know why she trimmed her bush. Frankly, if she did that I might break up with her on the spot. If no one is going to see it, then why trim it at that time. That is so fishy man.


Well, it didn't cross my mind right away that this may have been why she "trimmed her bush". And I wanted to see if it happened again, but she has not been back to the therapist since. This was about a month and a 1/2 ago.


----------



## Diana7

wolverine512 said:


> I plan to to do just that - ask her to find a female therapist.


I hope that she reacts well and doesn't accuse you of being paranoid or controlling. Oh and BTW I am European, British actually and I think what she is doing is very wrong and unwise.


----------



## notmyjamie

There are many women who feel dirty when they have not manicured themselves. If she is going to get a massage in which she'll have to be naked, draped or not, she's going to want to feel as clean as possible, whether her appointment is with a man or a woman. The explanation could be as simple as that. I was not having sex for many years and I still took care of business. Women do shave for more than just their man's pleasure, sorry to break it to you. LOL

Before you destroy your relationship I suggest you get off of the internet and talk to your girlfriend. She may have a very reasonable explanation. It's possible you'll ask her and she'll tell you she always sees a woman and that she's always draped. Or you'll tell her you'd feel better if she only saw female MT's and she'll agree with no problems. 

You are right that everyone makes mistakes. It sounds like she made a big one before she met you. She admits this. There is a reason though that doctors are not allowed to date patients...they are in a position of authority and that makes the patient vulnerable. Add in her freshly divorced state and this guy is a real scumbag. She made a poor choice, yes but that doesn't mean she will always make that same poor choice. It sounds like she's in a very good, loving relationship right now. She's not in that same vulnerable state that she was before. Also, the fact that she was ashamed to admit it tells me she knows it was wrong and has no plans to do it again.

Don't let people get you so worked up you attack her as soon as she comes home. That's a good way to end up single...even if she has been seeing female massage therapists. For all you know, her experience with the chiropractor has made her make the decision to only see females from now on.

Give the poor woman a chance.


----------



## *Deidre*

In reputable spas, they cover you completely, and when you turn over, the MT adjusts the blanket. I've never been completely naked, but nearly so. 

That said, I've known people who have said they are completely naked during a massage. I don't see an issue with it, because if you go to a reputable MT, they're going to be professional.

I think if my husband were to have had sex with his massage therapist in the past, I might feel the same way you do, OP. But, that would be a boundary issue for him, not necessarily that being nude is wrong or anything, during a massage. 

That said, I'd probably end the relationship if my husband lacked boundaries so much so, that he would be hitting on his massage therapist while getting a massage. lol


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

wolverine512 said:


> I intend too - but I'm trying to first figure out if I'm overreacting, I guess.


Yes, you might be, but it bothers you. So, you communicate the problem and why. If she flips out then she isn’t for you.


----------



## Diana7

notmyjamie said:


> There are many women who feel dirty when they have not manicured themselves. If she is going to get a massage in which she'll have to be naked, draped or not, she's going to want to feel as clean as possible, whether her appointment is with a man or a woman. The explanation could be as simple as that. I was not having sex for many years and I still took care of business. Women do shave for more than just their man's pleasure, sorry to break it to you. LOL
> 
> Before you destroy your relationship I suggest you get off of the internet and talk to your girlfriend. She may have a very reasonable explanation. It's possible you'll ask her and she'll tell you she always sees a woman and that she's always draped. Or you'll tell her you'd feel better if she only saw female MT's and she'll agree with no problems.
> 
> You are right that everyone makes mistakes. It sounds like she made a big one before she met you. She admits this. There is a reason though that doctors are not allowed to date patients...they are in a position of authority and that makes the patient vulnerable. Add in her freshly divorced state and this guy is a real scumbag. She made a poor choice, yes but that doesn't mean she will always make that same poor choice. It sounds like she's in a very good, loving relationship right now. She's not in that same vulnerable state that she was before. Also, the fact that she was ashamed to admit it tells me she knows it was wrong and has no plans to do it again.
> 
> Don't let people get you so worked up you attack her as soon as she comes home. That's a good way to end up single...even if she has been seeing female massage therapists. For all you know, her experience with the chiropractor has made her make the decision to only see females from now on.
> 
> Give the poor woman a chance.


He said in his first post that she sees a male masseur.


----------



## notmyjamie

Diana7 said:


> He said in his first post that she sees a male masseur.


My mistake. That still doesn't mean she's sleeping with him. The "evidence" against her, ie. shaving prior to the appointment, is circumstantial at best. It would be a real shame to throw away what he describes as a wonderful relationship over that. My point still stands...he needs to talk to her about it before he his anxiety grows to a point that he accuses her of something with no real proof. If he talks to her and gets answers he doesn't like, go forward from there. Right now all she's done is shave for God's sake. 

I see hundreds of women a year in various stages of manicuring. Most of them tell me they haven't had sex in well over a month but yet, they are still shaved. They certainly didn't shave to have sex with me. They shaved to feel clean at their appointment.


----------



## Diana7

notmyjamie said:


> My mistake. That still doesn't mean she's sleeping with him. The "evidence" against her, ie. shaving prior to the appointment, is circumstantial at best. It would be a real shame to throw away what he describes as a wonderful relationship over that. My point still stands...he needs to talk to her about it before he his anxiety grows to a point that he accuses her of something with no real proof. If he talks to her and gets answers he doesn't like, go forward from there. Right now all she's done is shave for God's sake.
> 
> I see hundreds of women a year in various stages of manicuring. Most of them tell me they haven't had sex in well over a month but yet, they are still shaved. They certainly didn't shave to have sex with me. They shaved to feel clean at their appointment.


I didn't get the impression that her shaving was the main issue.


----------



## notmyjamie

Diana7 said:


> I didn't get the impression that her shaving was the main issue.


He said he never thought anything of her massage appointments until he saw her shave prior to the appointment even though she was in a rush to get going. Stopping to take the time to do that was very suspicious and that's what got him started thinking about all of this. 

So in my opinion, shaving is a big part of the issue so I responded to it.


----------



## JustTheWife

*Deidre* said:


> In reputable spas, they cover you completely, and when you turn over, the MT adjusts the blanket. I've never been completely naked, but nearly so.
> 
> That said, I've known people who have said they are completely naked during a massage. I don't see an issue with it, because if you go to a reputable MT, they're going to be professional.
> 
> I think if my husband were to have had sex with his massage therapist in the past, I might feel the same way you do, OP. But, that would be a boundary issue for him, not necessarily that being nude is wrong or anything, during a massage.
> 
> That said, I'd probably end the relationship if my husband lacked boundaries so much so, that he would be hitting on his massage therapist while getting a massage. lol


In my case where a massage "went too far", it WAS at a reputable spa (it was a hotel spa). I was nude but I was draped with a folded towel over my bottom when on my stomach and on my chest when i was on my back. totally professional from the start. But he slowly got more and more intimate and I was like "ok, this is weird" to myself. It was like he was testing if I would stop him while not going too far at first so that he could apologize and act like he didn't mean anything if I complained. And it just progressed slowly, one step at a time. But TBH, i had been drinking and didn't stop him. It was like a suspended state of reality as I was lying there nude and alone with a guy. I didn't complain. I didn't stop anything. Shame on me. So he just kept going further and further. I can't really explain it but it was moving slowly, step by step but at the same time it was happening very fast. Like you're thinking, is he really doing that? Is this really happening to me? A groan that shouldn't have come out did come out (that was the mistake, the turning point). And before you know it, yeah, it's really really happening.

I just wanted to respond to the "reputable" point. I think with male MTs, the line between a "reputable" place and MT and not is more blurred. I mean, you can easily get just a horny guy who crosses the line to see if his customer is willing. With female MT's crossing the line, that's more likely to be prostitution and less likely to be happening in "reputable places". I have no idea.


----------



## Anastasia6

Ok waded through the whole thing.

First. I have had a few massages from both female and male. All the client me was naked. All I was under a drape. Unless my undies were really small I would have ended up with oil on my clothes. When on my back I have low back trouble so the massage came to the top of my buttocks. My underwear normally are much higher than that. I don't find the naked massage thing all that concerning. 

Second, she trusted you and told you about the chiropractor. She wasn't in a relationship then so you really don't have any reason to suspect she is a cheater do you? You have been with her 14 years is she the lying cheating type?

Third, my husband is mostly conservative but after he came and got a massage with me he realized that a professional massage isn't anything sexual. He hasn't ever asked me to use only women and I'd prefer strong hands as I get knots and I like the swedish hard massage to get them out. But if he did I'd oblige him only because he is my husband. If he was someone who didn't love me enough or respect me enough after 14 years to marry me, well then I'd let him know that I was sorry he didn't trust me but It is my decision. I'm not being unfaithful nor has any massuer seen anything a normal person wouldn't in a bathing suit. But that is me, I'm biased. I wouldn't hang around 14 years. After a few you either love me and want to build a life with me or you are just the guy I'm hanging around until I find someone better. I though would tell you that it wouldn't be hidden or covert. 

Fourth. You do sound insanely jealous. You claim you love her and she isn't cheating but you are sooooo worried someone might see something. Or she might forget she doesn't have sex during a massage. If you don't trust her that is an entirely different problem and one that even no massages will fix. Cause next month it will be dinner with a friend, going bowling, talking on the phone and you don't know who with? Ask yourself deep down do you trust her or not? If not then break up with her. After 14 years if she isn't trust worthy then she never will be. If she is then what EXACTLY are you worried about?


----------



## cp3o

wolverine512 said:


> Well, it didn't cross my mind right away that this may have been why she "trimmed her bush". And I wanted to see if it happened again, but she has not been back to the therapist since. This was about a month and a 1/2 ago.


I know nothing about massages. Never had one, never wanted one. That said, back in my late thirties I was in the habit of getting my hair cut in a local salon. My loyalty was, of course, totally unaffected by the fact that I used to drift off into a rather sensuous imaginary place when the very attractive young assistant washed my hair - presumably it made the job of sweeping up my curls more pleasant? I recall being surprised, and pleased, that she took so long over such a simple task.

That said - Do you have anything more than her word for it that she is seeing a "therapist" for a "massage". Not suggesting she isn't - but, in matters I consider important, being a BS has left me reluctant to accept unsupported statements - whilst knowing that they may well be true. Trust - but verify.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Stay off here for a while and get you head straight.


----------



## sokillme

hmm what I learned today i many people are cool with their spouses getting fully naked massages by the opposite sex.


----------



## sokillme

wolverine512 said:


> So you think I should break up with her even if I confirm she is no longer getting totally nude massages but is instead being draped, because of this indiscretion that happened before I met her?


I think you should brake up with her because from how you tell it she ****ed her doctor during one her appointments. That is a huge red flag in my book. I would bet big money you will be back on here within 5 years.


----------



## sokillme

*Deidre* said:


> In reputable spas, they cover you completely, and when you turn over, the MT adjusts the blanket. I've never been completely naked, but nearly so.
> 
> That said, I've known people who have said they are completely naked during a massage. I don't see an issue with it, because if you go to a reputable MT, they're going to be professional.
> 
> I think if my husband were to have had sex with his massage therapist in the past, I might feel the same way you do, OP. But, that would be a boundary issue for him, not necessarily that being nude is wrong or anything, during a massage.
> 
> That said, I'd probably end the relationship if my husband lacked boundaries so much so, that he would be hitting on his massage therapist while getting a massage. lol


You should let your husband know you are cool with him getting fully naked massages by strange women as long as they are reputable MTs.


----------



## cp3o

sokillme said:


> I think you should brake up with her because from how you tell it she ****ed her doctor during one her appointments. That is a huge red flag in my book. I would bet big money you will be back on here within 5 years.


It's my understanding that the admission related to a time when the lady was unattached. 


_Prior to me and my girlfriend meeting, she started having sex with her massage therapist during her sessions. He was actually a Chiropractor. They apparently had hooked up a few times. She had been recently divorced ..........._


You have a very thick book?


----------



## *Deidre*

sokillme said:


> You should let your husband know you are cool with him getting fully naked massages by strange women as long as they are reputable MTs.


Why? He doesn't go to spas and such, never really been into massages.


----------



## *Deidre*

JustTheWife said:


> In my case where a massage "went too far", it WAS at a reputable spa (it was a hotel spa). I was nude but I was draped with a folded towel over my bottom when on my stomach and on my chest when i was on my back. totally professional from the start. But he slowly got more and more intimate and I was like "ok, this is weird" to myself. It was like he was testing if I would stop him while not going too far at first so that he could apologize and act like he didn't mean anything if I complained. And it just progressed slowly, one step at a time. But TBH, i had been drinking and didn't stop him. It was like a suspended state of reality as I was lying there nude and alone with a guy. I didn't complain. I didn't stop anything. Shame on me. So he just kept going further and further. I can't really explain it but it was moving slowly, step by step but at the same time it was happening very fast. Like you're thinking, is he really doing that? Is this really happening to me? A groan that shouldn't have come out did come out (that was the mistake, the turning point). And before you know it, yeah, it's really really happening.
> 
> I just wanted to respond to the "reputable" point. I think with male MTs, the line between a "reputable" place and MT and not is more blurred. I mean, you can easily get just a horny guy who crosses the line to see if his customer is willing. With female MT's crossing the line, that's more likely to be prostitution and less likely to be happening in "reputable places". I have no idea.


In a reputable spa, if you were to report his behavior, they'd take it seriously, and likely fire him, is what I meant by ''reputable.''

As far as your experience goes, I've heard of that happening. I think it's because when we're getting a massage, we're trusting and in somehwat of a vulnerable position. Still wrong that the MT pushed the boundaries like that!


----------



## Middle of Everything

sokillme said:


> I think you should brake up with her because from how you tell it she ****ed her doctor during one her appointments. That is a huge red flag in my book. I would bet big money you will be back on here within 5 years.


If it makes anyone feel better, he said it was a chiropractor she had sex with. Not a doctor. :wink2::grin2:


----------



## wolverine512

notmyjamie said:


> There are many women who feel dirty when they have not manicured themselves. If she is going to get a massage in which she'll have to be naked, draped or not, she's going to want to feel as clean as possible, whether her appointment is with a man or a woman. The explanation could be as simple as that. I was not having sex for many years and I still took care of business. Women do shave for more than just their man's pleasure, sorry to break it to you. LOL
> 
> Before you destroy your relationship I suggest you get off of the internet and talk to your girlfriend. She may have a very reasonable explanation. It's possible you'll ask her and she'll tell you she always sees a woman and that she's always draped. Or you'll tell her you'd feel better if she only saw female MT's and she'll agree with no problems.
> 
> You are right that everyone makes mistakes. It sounds like she made a big one before she met you. She admits this. There is a reason though that doctors are not allowed to date patients...they are in a position of authority and that makes the patient vulnerable. Add in her freshly divorced state and this guy is a real scumbag. She made a poor choice, yes but that doesn't mean she will always make that same poor choice. It sounds like she's in a very good, loving relationship right now. She's not in that same vulnerable state that she was before. Also, the fact that she was ashamed to admit it tells me she knows it was wrong and has no plans to do it again.
> 
> Don't let people get you so worked up you attack her as soon as she comes home. That's a good way to end up single...even if she has been seeing female massage therapists. For all you know, her experience with the chiropractor has made her make the decision to only see females from now on.
> 
> Give the poor woman a chance.


Thanks for your response. I totally agree with you that her manicuring herself may be nothing more than what you have explained. She is the type of woman who takes very good care of herself. She shaves her legs and arm pits every time she takes a shower, whether she is in a relationship or not. I do know for certain she still sees a male therapist. She told me that she does and I've seen him. I dropped her off and picked her from her most recent appointment and I saw him. The only question in my mind is whether she's being draped or not. That's it. If she's nude and draped, no problem. Her massages are 2 hours long so if she's not draped, then I feel like this is an issue. Is it an issue worth breaking up with her over?? That's want I'm trying to figure out. I have been thinking about this for several weeks so I'm not rushing to judgment with her and instead I'm and trying to get my head right about it before I address this with her. Not sure if posting here is the best way to do that but I'm truly trying to be reasonable.


----------



## wolverine512

cp3o said:


> It's my understanding that the admission related to a time when the lady was unattached.
> 
> 
> Yah, I'm not breaking up with her because of something she did in her past. This isn't about what happened in the past, it's about what may be going on now.


----------



## wolverine512

notmyjamie said:


> My mistake. That still doesn't mean she's sleeping with him. The "evidence" against her, ie. shaving prior to the appointment, is circumstantial at best. It would be a real shame to throw away what he describes as a wonderful relationship over that. My point still stands...he needs to talk to her about it before he his anxiety grows to a point that he accuses her of something with no real proof. If he talks to her and gets answers he doesn't like, go forward from there. Right now all she's done is shave for God's sake.
> 
> I see hundreds of women a year in various stages of manicuring. Most of them tell me they haven't had sex in well over a month but yet, they are still shaved. They certainly didn't shave to have sex with me. They shaved to feel clean at their appointment.


I don't think she's sleeping with him. I just prefer if she is going to get a nude massage form a male therapist, that she be draped. That's really all this is about. If there is some benefit to her being nude and not draped, then I would prefer she see a female therapist. I know there are female therapists who will do just as good of a job. If she is totally nude, the guy she is seeing now may be completely professional and most likely nothing has happened to cross the line. What about the next guy? I know her MT's name and have looked him up on Linkedin. His status says he's looking for another career. So the likelihood of her having to find a new MT at some point is probably pretty good. Maybe the next guy isn't so professional.


----------



## Marc878

*Deidre* said:


> In a reputable spa, if you were to report his behavior, they'd take it seriously, and likely fire him, is what I meant by ''reputable.''
> 
> As far as your experience goes, I've heard of that happening. I think it's because when we're getting a massage, we're trusting and in somehwat of a vulnerable position. Still wrong that the MT pushed the boundaries like that!


IMO the real issue is why put yourself in a position like that in the first place? You do have a choice.


----------



## Marc878

wolverine512 said:


> I don't think she's sleeping with him. I just prefer if she is going to get a nude massage form a male therapist, that she be draped. That's really all this is about. If there is some benefit to her being nude and not draped, then I would prefer she see a female therapist. I know there are female therapists who will do just as good of a job. If she is totally nude, the guy she is seeing now may be completely professional and most likely nothing has happened to cross the line. What about the next guy? I know her MT's name and have looked him up on Linkedin. His status says he's looking for another career. So the likelihood of her having to find a new MT at some point is probably pretty good. Maybe the next guy isn't so professional.


He’s not your problem here she is.


----------



## wolverine512

*Deidre* said:


> Why? He doesn't go to spas and such, never really been into massages.


I think sokillme is suggesting you put your money where your mouth is. It's easy to advise someone else they should be ok with their SO being naked in front of members of the opposite sex, but it's another matter if YOUR SO is the one doing it.


----------



## wolverine512

Marc878 said:


> IMO the real issue is why put yourself in a position like that in the first place? You do have a choice.


Exactly. It's not necessary.


----------



## Tilted 1

wolverine512 said:


> . Not sure if posting here is the best way to do that but I'm truly trying to be reasonable.


Then, this along with your gut is why you keep pushing the rope. This is not the way to be. But you probably know the answer already, and because you know, are looking for reasons to ??. Be straight with her ask her out right and then bend your own rules to keep her because of her other qualities. Because it not a issue if you can accept it. But you heard that it is erotic and additive of sorts. Meaning if you asked her to stop would she? 

Maybe just let dead dogs lie, because she fulfills you in so many ways.


----------



## wolverine512

Diana7 said:


> I hope that she reacts well and doesn't accuse you of being paranoid or controlling. Oh and BTW I am European, British actually and I think what she is doing is very wrong and unwise.


I think she will be ok this conversation. I'm trying to formulate a game plan so I don't come at her with judgement and accusations. I truly want to talk this through, hear her out and go from there. If her response is that she's being draped, then the conversation will be done and we'll move on with life. If her response is that she is not being draped, then I will attempt to reach a compromise with her that we can both live with.


----------



## wolverine512

Anastasia6 said:


> Ok waded through the whole thing.
> 
> First. I have had a few massages from both female and male. All the client me was naked. All I was under a drape. Unless my undies were really small I would have ended up with oil on my clothes. When on my back I have low back trouble so the massage came to the top of my buttocks. My underwear normally are much higher than that. I don't find the naked massage thing all that concerning.
> 
> 
> Third, my husband is mostly conservative but after he came and got a massage with me he realized that a professional massage isn't anything sexual. He hasn't ever asked me to use only women and I'd prefer strong hands as I get knots and I like the swedish hard massage to get them out. But if he did I'd oblige him only because he is my husband. If he was someone who didn't love me enough or respect me enough after 14 years to marry me, well then I'd let him know that I was sorry he didn't trust me but It is my decision. I'm not being unfaithful nor has any massuer seen anything a normal person wouldn't in a bathing suit. But that is me, I'm biased. I wouldn't hang around 14 years. After a few you either love me and want to build a life with me or you are just the guy I'm hanging around until I find someone better. I though would tell you that it wouldn't be hidden or covert.


I'm curious if your conservative husband had come to the same massage as you mentioned but instead of being draped, he found you lying totally nude on the table with a male therapist, would he still think it was a professional, non sexual experience? Can you ask him this question and let me know what he says?


----------



## notmyjamie

What I find interesting is how many people here are assuming she is laying there naked and undraped and acting like she's doing some horrible thing, crossing boundaries and such when she could just be getting your average massage with nothing untoward happening at all. OP, you've dropped her off and met the guy...did it seem like a seedy place to you?

If she's had to see a chiropractor in the past she probably has back issues and massages can be very helpful to relieve that pain. That is probably her only motivating factor in getting them. I normally hate massages but I saw one physical therapist after my back surgery and if he were strictly a massage therapist, I'd probably see him weekly and it would have nothing to do with anything erotic. He was just a miracle worker in fixing my back. And I just want my back pain to go away. And people who have physical ailments usually do need a 2 hour massage to get that relief. 

It sounds like she enjoys a fulfilling and rich sex life with OP and quite honestly, some of that might be down to the fact that she CAN participate because by getting these massages it helps her back. How's that for irony? When my back is all seized up I'm good for some starfish and nothing else and sometimes not even that. Back pain is very debilitating. If you haven't experienced it you have no idea.

Instead of worrying about it for weeks on end, just ask her. If you get an answer you don't like proceed from there. My guess is she'll tell you she is draped and then you can relax. You're only hurting yourself by putting this conversation off.


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## wilson

Keep in mind that is is a marriage site, and most of us will be coming from that background. We are thinking of relationships more from the perspective of the long-term feasibility rather than just some fun in the moment. If you're looking for a relationship that leads to marriage, then it is important to find compatibility with this kind of stuff since you'll be spending your whole lives together. But if it's just some fun and you're not thinking marriage, then it doesn't need to be such a big deal.


----------



## wolverine512

notmyjamie said:


> What I find interesting is how many people here are assuming she is laying there naked and undraped and acting like she's doing some horrible thing, crossing boundaries and such when she could just be getting your average massage with nothing untoward happening at all. OP, you've dropped her off and met the guy...did it seem like a seedy place to you?
> 
> If she's had to see a chiropractor in the past she probably has back issues and massages can be very helpful to relieve that pain. That is probably her only motivating factor in getting them. I normally hate massages but I saw one physical therapist after my back surgery and if he were strictly a massage therapist, I'd probably see him weekly and it would have nothing to do with anything erotic. He was just a miracle worker in fixing my back. And I just want my back pain to go away. And people who have physical ailments usually do need a 2 hour massage to get that relief.
> 
> It sounds like she enjoys a fulfilling and rich sex life with OP and quite honestly, some of that might be down to the fact that she CAN participate because by getting these massages it helps her back. How's that for irony? When my back is all seized up I'm good for some starfish and nothing else and sometimes not even that. Back pain is very debilitating. If you haven't experienced it you have no idea.
> 
> Instead of worrying about it for weeks on end, just ask her. If you get an answer you don't like proceed from there. My guess is she'll tell you she is draped and then you can relax. You're only hurting yourself by putting this conversation off.


Yep. Good advice. My suspicion that she goes undraped stems from two things. First, the situation that happened with the Chiro. When she asked him about the status of their relationship, his response was "You were nude". This sounds to me like this was not a draped session. But I could be wrong. Of course he would know if she was nude whether she was draped or not but it sounds like her nudity was taken by him as an invitation. So, it sounds like it was unique (undraped). I doubt if she was draped, he would have saw it as an invitation in the same way. Secondly, the lady scaping prior to her last massage. I know this is not evidence but it caused me to consider whether she is STILL going undraped or not. If she is, it still doesn't mean she is having sex with him and I'm not even thinking that she is. As stated many times, I am just having a hard time with the idea that she MAY be going undraped - totally nude - for 2 hours each session - with a male. I'm wondering why she would put herself in the same situation considering her previous MT viewed this behavior as an invitation.


----------



## wolverine512

wilson said:


> Keep in mind that is is a marriage site, and most of us will be coming from that background. We are thinking of relationships more from the perspective of the long-term feasibility rather than just some fun in the moment. If you're looking for a relationship that leads to marriage, then it is important to find compatibility with this kind of stuff since you'll be spending your whole lives together. But if it's just some fun and you're not thinking marriage, then it doesn't need to be such a big deal.


We live together so this is a long term relationship. This is not just a short term fling. I'm head over heals in love with this woman and I know she loves me just as much. When we first met, she said she would never be married again. She has since changed her tune and has let me know that she would marry me. She has also stated that if for some reason we break up, she'd probably never be in another relationship again. When she said that I asked her "So, I have ruined you for all other men?" She said, yep. Some will say I'm being insanely jealous. I say I'm taking my time, collecting my thoughts, developing a plan of action, deciding what I can and cannot live with etc... before I talk to her about it, because she means so much to me. I don't want to screw this up.


----------



## notmyjamie

wolverine512 said:


> Yep. Good advice. My suspicion that she goes undraped stems from two things. First, the situation that happened with the Chiro. When she asked him about the status of their relationship, his response was "You were nude". This sounds to me like this was not a draped session. But I could be wrong. Of course he would know if she was nude whether she was draped or not but it sounds like her nudity was taken by him as an invitation. So, it sounds like it was unique (undraped). I doubt if she was draped, he would have saw it as an invitation in the same way. Secondly, the lady scaping prior to her last massage. I know this is not evidence but it caused me to consider whether she is STILL going undraped or not. If she is, it still doesn't mean she is having sex with him and I'm not even thinking that she is. As stated many times, I am just having a hard time with the idea that she MAY be going undraped - totally nude - for 2 hours each session - with a male. I'm wondering why she would put herself in the same situation considering her previous MT viewed this behavior as an invitation.


To that I would say, you're a man. When she's standing there after a shower in just a towel do you still get turned on? Of course you do. Because you know that under that towel, she is nude. This chiro was a piece of **** scoundrel and even if she were draped with him, he'd still call her nude. Also remember that she was single at that time. She did not owe anyone her fidelity and quite honestly, she did nothing wrong even if she did lay there naked. HE did something very wrong. So to use this as evidence against her is just not fair. 

And your assumption that she is having nude massages is just that, an assumption. Reputable massage therapists do not do massages with the patient un-draped. Again, you've seen the place...does it look seedy? Use your own judgement. 

But again, to ruminate this over and over in your brain is just torturing yourself. Just ask her for God's sake!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you can't figure out how, just bring it up lightly..."hey...a bunch of us at work were talking about massages and we got to wondering...do you lay there naked or are you covered up?" in a nice, even, light tone. You'll get the truth and then take it from there.


----------



## BluesPower

notmyjamie said:


> What I find interesting is how many people here are assuming she is laying there naked and undraped and acting like she's doing some horrible thing, crossing boundaries and such when she could just be getting your average massage with nothing untoward happening at all. OP, you've dropped her off and met the guy...did it seem like a seedy place to you?
> 
> If she's had to see a chiropractor in the past she probably has back issues and massages can be very helpful to relieve that pain. That is probably her only motivating factor in getting them. I normally hate massages but I saw one physical therapist after my back surgery and if he were strictly a massage therapist, I'd probably see him weekly and it would have nothing to do with anything erotic. He was just a miracle worker in fixing my back. And I just want my back pain to go away. And people who have physical ailments usually do need a 2 hour massage to get that relief.
> 
> It sounds like she enjoys a fulfilling and rich sex life with OP and quite honestly, some of that might be down to the fact that she CAN participate because by getting these massages it helps her back. How's that for irony? When my back is all seized up I'm good for some starfish and nothing else and sometimes not even that. Back pain is very debilitating. If you haven't experienced it you have no idea.
> 
> Instead of worrying about it for weeks on end, just ask her. If you get an answer you don't like proceed from there. My guess is she'll tell you she is draped and then you can relax. You're only hurting yourself by putting this conversation off.


Yes they need to talk. But to a few points here: 

1) She was banging her chiro. Yes it was before, yes she was divorced, I get it. But no matter what, getting adjusted and banged in the same room is just... Maybe too much???

2) Because of the above, her being in a private room with male nude, is just some how not cool.

3) Fully nude with hunky male MT is just not something I would deal with, innocent or not. 

4) Draped with a male MT in my world is not cool. A female would be fine, even fully nude. 

This is just where I come out. 

And while her trimming her bush could be innocent, it does not mean that it was innocent. Trimming or shaving there is not the same as shaving your underarms or legs, that is just silly....


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## ReformedHubby

I don't consider myself a particularly insecure dude, but I have always requested that my lady select a female masseuse when they do spa days. Noone i have dated ever protested or thought I was out of line for making that request. Its not that I think they are going to bang him. Even though its only therapuetic, I don't want another mans hands on my woman. I just don't like it. I would just tell her that you prefer she only chooses a female masseuse.


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## wolverine512

notmyjamie said:


> To that I would say, you're a man. When she's standing there after a shower in just a towel do you still get turned on? Of course you do. Because you know that under that towel, she is nude. This chiro was a piece of **** scoundrel and even if she were draped with him, he'd still call her nude. Also remember that she was single at that time. She did not owe anyone her fidelity and quite honestly, she did nothing wrong even if she did lay there naked. HE did something very wrong. So to use this as evidence against her is just not fair.
> 
> And your assumption that she is having nude massages is just that, an assumption. Reputable massage therapists do not do massages with the patient un-draped. Again, you've seen the place...does it look seedy? Use your own judgement.
> 
> But again, to ruminate this over and over in your brain is just torturing yourself. Just ask her for God's sake!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you can't figure out how, just bring it up lightly..."hey...a bunch of us at work were talking about massages and we got to wondering...do you lay there naked or are you covered up?" in a nice, even, light tone. You'll get the truth and then take it from there.


It's not a shady place. It's a well known chain that I have confirmed has a strict draping policy. Even so, it's closed doors and no one can be certain whether this draping policy is observed at all times by all MT's. The Chrio risked his entire career, years in school, his family and what I'm sure was probably a very lucrative income for a few rolls in the sack with her and I'm sure he was viewed as reputable. So suggesting that this wouldn't happen with a reputable MT, doesn't really hold water.

The fact that it happened is not evidence at all and I agree with you that this is more on him, than her. I'm not judging her for her past. I plain and simply do not want her to put herself in this position again, and want her to be draped. I'm greedy. I don't want to share! LOL


----------



## notmyjamie

BluesPower said:


> Yes they need to talk. But to a few points here:
> 
> 1) She was banging her chiro. Yes it was before, yes she was divorced, I get it. But no matter what, getting adjusted and banged in the same room is just... Maybe too much???
> 
> Maybe it's because I work in medicine that I see it differently, but we are taught OVER and OVER that we have to be very careful with patients because patients feel a vulnerability towards their care providers. That relationship can very easily be taken advantage of...HE was the one in authority, not her. HE did something wrong. Her mistake was allowing her vulnerability to be taken advantage of and that's it. And as she was ashamed to admit it happened, I think she knows it was a big mistake. We all make them. Would you like to be judged for mistakes you've made and learned from forever? Neither would I.
> 
> 2) Because of the above, her being in a private room with male nude, is just some how not cool.
> 
> And that's fine for you to feel about your partner. The OP has stated he's fine with it all as long as she is draped which is his prerogative.
> 
> 3) Fully nude with hunky male MT is just not something I would deal with, innocent or not.
> 
> Again, fine for you and your partner. He has said over and over he only cares that she is draped.
> 
> 4) Draped with a male MT in my world is not cool. A female would be fine, even fully nude.
> 
> And again, that's fine for you. OP has a different opinion and that's what I'm commenting on.
> 
> This is just where I come out.
> 
> And while her trimming her bush could be innocent, it does not mean that it was innocent. Trimming or shaving there is not the same as shaving your underarms or legs, that is just silly....
> 
> Of course it could be innocent or could not be innocent. But as I work with women and see their trimming habits and talk about them a lot (more than I care to be honest) I know how many women feel about it. I was just giving an alternate possible reason for why she trimmed. The fact that she trimmed herself prior to going to the appointment does not automatically mean she's getting ready to lay there buck naked while the hunky MT goes to town on her.


----------



## wolverine512

ReformedHubby said:


> I don't consider myself a particularly insecure dude, but I have always requested that my lady select a female masseuse when they do spa days. Noone i have dated ever protested or thought I was out of line for making that request. Its not that I think they are going to bang him. Even though its only therapuetic, I don't want another mans hands on my woman. I just don't like it. I would just tell her that you prefer she only chooses a female masseuse.


If the Chiro thing didn't happen I don't think I would be overly concerned about her getting massaged by a male - unless I had some other reason to think she was going undraped. I mean, my preference would be a female, sure! But I can live with the idea that she is getting massaged by a man as long as I had no reason to think that she was getting an undraped, nude massage. I have gotten massaged by a female and it's never been sexual - although I've never been nude. I have always worn my underwear and have been draped.


----------



## notmyjamie

wolverine512 said:


> It's not a shady place. It's a well known chain that I have confirmed has a strict draping policy. Even so, it's closed doors and no one can be certain whether this draping policy is observed at all times by all MT's. The Chrio risked his entire career, years in school, his family and what I'm sure was probably a very lucrative income for a few rolls in the sack with her and I'm sure he was viewed as reputable. So suggesting that this wouldn't happen with a reputable MT, doesn't really hold water.
> 
> This is true, there are, unfortunately, many people in these positions who take advantage of that. My guess is that he risked all of that many times over the years. And I'd also guess it was his policy that she be nude during the treatments, not hers. Like I said, he's a scumbag. I would think the fact that she is now in a good relationship, wants to marry you, feels you've ruined her for other men would mean SHE is no longer vulnerable to those types of people. She also knows what to watch for now. You've said you don't believe she's having sex with him so you obviously trust her.
> 
> The fact that it happened is not evidence at all and I agree with you that this is more on him, than her. I'm not judging her for her past. I plain and simply do not want her to put herself in this position again, and want her to be draped. I'm greedy. I don't want to share! LOL
> 
> And honestly, there is NOTHING wrong with you not wanting to share. So tell her that. If her regular MT is leaving soon it's a great time to segue over to a female MT. Tell her that you do trust her but you don't want other men seeing her body, even under a drape. I'd hope that she'd feel flattered that you want her all to yourself. But do it soon before you make yourself crazy LOL


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Maybe she's just an exhibitionist. 😎😎


----------



## re16

History is the best guide to future behavior... this creates a couple of red flags. Its the history / specifics of this situation that make this different from your standard naked and draped massage scenario that would be considered pretty normal.

Red flags:

1. She has a history of allowing massages to turn into sexual experiences.
2. She goes to the same guy repeatedly. This seems like it could lend itself to a situation that progresses (or already progressed) over time.
3. Even in a rush, she spent the time to lady scape prior to seeing this guy.

Its time to have a calm talk about this and express your desire for some reasonable boundaries (no male MTs). If she is defensive about not using male therapist or at least alternating which one she uses, there may be more to this.

Gut feelings are often correct, and I think you are likely on to something.


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## Diana7

If as you claim she loves you very much, then she will have NO issues with you asking that she goes to a female masseur. 

She is very foolish to go to a male after her affair last time under practically the same circumstances. Ok she was divorced, but was he? Was he married? In a relationship? Did she report him?

You need to set some boundaries here. Even if she is partially covered by towels or whatever, he is still a man and she is still a woman and she is still naked and he is still running his hands over most of her body in a very intimate way. 

I have no idea why women can't go to women and men to men, it seems so simple. It just wouldn't occur to me to go to a male masseur when there are so many women.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Dude, let it go. Just let it go. Her being draped makes zero difference male or female. Still have the discussion, but either let it go or move on to the next woman.


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## Ursula

minimalME said:


> I'm always nude during a massage - with a towel draped over me (when I'm on my stomach) that's moved around when my legs and back are worked on.
> 
> When I'm on my back, I do have my breasts and trunk covered, and they simply move the towel around as needed.
> 
> Personally, I prefer a female masseuse, and the only time I've had a male was when I forgot to request a female when I made the appointment. Interestingly, he gave the worst massage I've ever had.
> 
> But to address your one concern, I've never, ever worn clothing during a massage. And I've had both 1 and 2 hour massages.
> 
> And I've never once had anyone touch me in an inappropriate way.


Ditto to all of this for myself too!


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## sokillme

*Deidre* said:


> Why? He doesn't go to spas and such, never really been into massages.


I'm just saying here is your husband stark naked and you are cool with some young masseuses woman oiling him all over as long as she doesn't touch said parts? I mean as long as she has a cert.


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## sokillme

cp3o said:


> It's my understanding that the admission related to a time when the lady was unattached.


I'm aware. What is the difference between this and going to prostitutes, besides the fact that at least with prostitutes it's kind of understood what you are getting and it's not under the grounds of a medical procedure in an office where there is the potential/danger of someone walking in on you?


----------



## notmyjamie

sokillme said:


> I'm aware. What is the difference between this and going to prostitutes, besides the fact that at least with prostitutes it's kind of understood what you are getting and it's not under the grounds of a medical procedure in an office where there is the potential/danger of someone walking in on you?


For me, the difference is that's not why she went to the chiropractor. If she had purposefully gone to a massage parlor that specialized in happy endings and slept with a MT I'd feel very differently about it. I think she went to the chiropractor for legitimate purposes and he made a move and she responded. That's not the same thing as going to a place that you know is just sex for hire. I think she was very vulnerable and her ******* chiropractor took advantage of that. That does not mean she can't be trusted in future relationships. I wish I'd never slept with the first guy I ever slept with...he totally took advantage of the fact that I was younger and inexperienced. Does that mean my now boyfriend has to worry that I'll cheat on him? Nope not by a long shot. 

Also, I've only been to a few chiropractic offices, but they were all much more private than a regular doctor's office. Being walked in on might not have even been a consideration.


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## samyeagar

The chiropractor was treating her for Hysteria


----------



## sokillme

notmyjamie said:


> For me, the difference is that's not why she went to the chiropractor. If she had purposefully gone to a massage parlor that specialized in happy endings and slept with a MT I'd feel very differently about it. I think she went to the chiropractor for legitimate purposes and he made a move and she responded. That's not the same thing as going to a place that you know is just sex for hire. I think she was very vulnerable and her ******* chiropractor took advantage of that. That does not mean she can't be trusted in future relationships. I wish I'd never slept with the first guy I ever slept with...he totally took advantage of the fact that I was younger and inexperienced. Does that mean my now boyfriend has to worry that I'll cheat on him? Nope not by a long shot.
> 
> Also, I've only been to a few chiropractic offices, but they were all much more private than a regular doctor's office. Being walked in on might not have even been a consideration.


No offense dude but I think you are doing what lots of guys do making this women way more passive then most of them are. Most women are not children where they can't stop a situation like this if they don't want it. It's not like she describes this as rape. Private office, vulnerable, chiropractor too advantage, and yet here she is putting herself into a similar position. 

On a different note as long as guys continue to think of women as perpetual powerless victims who have no agency in their choices they are going to be taken advantage by said women.


----------



## sokillme

samyeagar said:


> The chiropractor was treating her for Hysteria


Haha! Great reference. And really fits the kind of Victorian notions that some people cling to.


----------



## Anastasia6

wolverine512 said:


> I'm curious if your conservative husband had come to the same massage as you mentioned but instead of being draped, he found you lying totally nude on the table with a male therapist, would he still think it was a professional, non sexual experience? Can you ask him this question and let me know what he says?


You are conflating issues and all over the map here.

First, I wouldn't have to ask him. I would assume that he wouldn't be happy. This wouldn't be a professional arrangement. I will ask him and get back to you. My cardiologist is a man and sees my entire chest. My husband has never batted an eye. The reason he would rather me have the best cardiologist in our town for my condition so I can be healthy. He also knows that this is a professional relationship and he's welcome in the room (either of the rooms) at any time. For a massage it is not professional to not drape. Hence the professional spa's have a strictly drape policy. It isn't porn. There isn't a naked woman being oiled up by a hunky man who just needs to stretch your cervix with his special tool.

You have said you'd be ok if she was draped and in other posts you wouldn't be ok if it was a man. And others where you are trying to figure out if you want to break up over this.

She has by your words indicated she'd like to marry you and that you are the last man she ever wants to be with. For most women you don't get more direct than that about getting married, loving you and for most that would include faithfulness.

You are saying after 14 years you don't even know if you trust her and are willing to break up over something that isn't a thing. But you love her bunches. Puhleeease.

You two are in completely different places. 

I hope two things. 
You have a rational conversation where you can ask if she is draped in the session. I am currently quite sure she is. But if I"m wrong then you can worry about that.

Second you to need to have a conversation about trust and your relationship. I've seen this quite a bit around where I am. This being in two places often times leads to resentment on her part. You are with your actions saying I don't care enough to commit to you. This undermines a relationship and long term she needs to know that where she is. Otherwise the resentment builds and often times can not be undone. You two need to decide what your level of commitment and your boundaries. Living together isn't the same of marriage but of course people in monogomous relationship can and should expect their partner to be monogomous and be able to have conversations about what makes you uncomfortable. However, living in an arrangement that you can literally end in 30 seconds like you have indicated doesn't give you the same stake in the others life and their decisions. Marraige of course also doesn't mean she'd have to do everything you want either but people have to be more flexible when they have committed for life.

I have never indicated it would be ok if she was completely naked. But you thinking that is the case shows how you just are insecure about the relationship but you really aren't doing anything to cement it either. Ask yourself what do you want? How do you want her to feel about your relationship? and you?

Good luck. I hope you have the conversation and alleviate your fears. Maybe find out what hers are too.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

What's with chiropractors, I dunno. 

I went to one during college after a motorcycle accident and ended up kind of a play toy for two female nurses. They were young, I was young. All was ok. 

I was 18 at the time and never thought, and still don't think it was that big a deal.


----------



## Anastasia6

sokillme said:


> I'm just saying here is your husband stark naked and you are cool with some young masseuses woman oiling him all over as long as she doesn't touch said parts? I mean as long as she has a cert.


He would be draped. My husband has had a massage by a woman and I wasn't worried at all. Not everything is about sex.


----------



## sokillme

Anastasia6 said:


> He would be draped. My husband has had a massage by a woman and I wasn't worried at all. Not everything is about sex.


My comment was based off of this comment below. 



> That said, I've known people who have said they are completely naked during a massage. I don't see an issue with it, because if you go to a reputable MT, they're going to be professional.


What do you think is going through your husbands mind? I know I'm an ass but I am just saying. 

Look I used to work around a lot of Doctors you would be surprised about what they talked about. I have no reason to suspect Massage Therapists are any different. If they are joking about it with their buddies you know they are thinking it. 

Whatever, you can't make your spouse do anything anyway. But in this case it's clear this women already has poor boundaries.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Anastasia6 said:


> He would be draped. My husband has had a massage by a woman and I wasn't worried at all. Not everything is about sex.


:surprise:if some women was rubbing my inner thigh and I was draped in my back, there would be an Indian style tee-pee under construction, so to speak. Tent pole would kind if be obvious. 

:smile2:


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## Anastasia6

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> :surprise:if some women was rubbing my inner thigh and I was draped in my back, there would be an Indian style tee-pee under construction, so to speak. Tent pole would kind if be obvious.
> 
> :smile2:


Well that didn't happen. He doesn't respond to random women who aren't making moves on him. I was there too. It was a couples massage. 

He also get sex regular so he isn't exactly desparate.


----------



## Lila

wolverine512 said:


> We have an amazing relationship. She is super affectionate and we have sex a lot – pretty much daily, on weekends, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day. *She has given me no other reason whatsoever to question her fidelity.* I really love this woman but the more I think about this the more it is driving me crazy that the woman I love MAY be allowing another man to see her naked. And, she gets 2 hour massages so when she goes, *I am beside myself with jealousy wondering what’s going on at her session. It’s horrible. I hate feeling this way.*
> 
> *I do occasionally have some minor jealousy issues*, I’ll be honest. *It’s only when we go out dancing and I drink too much. We have always been able to communicate about times when my jealousy has reared its ugly head so it’s not been a huge problem.* But, I’m concerned if I press her on this topic she may pull out the jealousy card and I’m trying hard to work on my jealousy because I know it’s not a good thing.
> 
> So, I’m wondering how many men would be ok with their SO being totally nude in this scenario, given there is history of lines being crossed and what would you do if you found out for sure that she is still doing totally nude massages?


Sounds like the root cause of your concern is your unfounded jealousy issues. Have you had these issues in previous relationships? Is this a recurring theme?


----------



## notmyjamie

sokillme said:


> No offense dude but I think you are doing what lots of guys do making this women way more passive then most of them are. Most women or not children where they can't stop a situation like this if they don't want it. It's not like she describes this as rape. Private office, vulnerable, chiropractor too advantage, and yet here she is putting herself into a similar position.
> 
> On a different note as long as guys continue to think of women as perpetual powerless victims who have no agency in their choices they are going to be taken advantage by said women.


LOL...I'm not a dude and I take no offense...it's a good discussion.

I'm not trying to say she's a victim. I do think he used her vulnerability against her...she was his patient and she thought the sex meant something. Her mistake definitely. And yes, she could have said no. But just because she made a poor choice years ago that doesn't mean she's a cheater. She slept with someone she shouldn't have...many, many people have done that. They don't all go on to cheat on people later on. That's all I'm trying to say. 

I would have no problem if my guy asked me to stick with female massage therapists because he didn't want other guys seeing me naked. I would not be ok if he assumed I was going to cheat based on one past incident in my life that I sincerely regretted and already told him I regretted. OP has already said he is not worried she's going to cheat but I get the feeling you think she is going to cheat. I'm choosing to give her the benefit of the doubt. You don't seem to be the kind of guy to give anyone the benefit of the doubt which is entirely your prerogative of course.


----------



## wolverine512

Anastasia6 said:


> You are conflating issues and all over the map here.
> 
> First, I wouldn't have to ask him. I would assume that he wouldn't be happy. This wouldn't be a professional arrangement. I will ask him and get back to you. My cardiologist is a man and sees my entire chest. My husband has never batted an eye.  The reason he would rather me have the best cardiologist in our town for my condition so I can be healthy. He also knows that this is a professional relationship and he's welcome in the room (either of the rooms) at any time. For a massage it is not professional to not drape. Hence the professional spa's have a strictly drape policy. It isn't porn. There isn't a naked woman being oiled up by a hunky man who just needs to stretch your cervix with his special tool.
> 
> You have said you'd be ok if she was draped and in other posts you wouldn't be ok if it was a man. And others where you are trying to figure out if you want to break up over this.
> 
> She has by your words indicated she'd like to marry you and that you are the last man she ever wants to be with. For most women you don't get more direct than that about getting married, loving you and for most that would include faithfulness.
> 
> You are saying after 14 years you don't even know if you trust her and are willing to break up over something that isn't a thing. But you love her bunches. Puhleeease.
> 
> You two are in completely different places.
> 
> I hope two things.
> You have a rational conversation where you can ask if she is draped in the session. I am currently quite sure she is. But if I"m wrong then you can worry about that.
> 
> Second you to need to have a conversation about trust and your relationship. I've seen this quite a bit around where I am. This being in two places often times leads to resentment on her part. You are with your actions saying I don't care enough to commit to you. This undermines a relationship and long term she needs to know that where she is. Otherwise the resentment builds and often times can not be undone. You two need to decide what your level of commitment and your boundaries. Living together isn't the same of marriage but of course people in monogomous relationship can and should expect their partner to be monogomous and be able to have conversations about what makes you uncomfortable. However, living in an arrangement that you can literally end in 30 seconds like you have indicated doesn't give you the same stake in the others life and their decisions. Marraige of course also doesn't mean she'd have to do everything you want either but people have to be more flexible when they have committed for life.
> 
> I have never indicated it would be ok if she was completely naked. But you thinking that is the case shows how you just are insecure about the relationship but you really aren't doing anything to cement it either. Ask yourself what do you want? How do you want her to feel about your relationship? and you?
> 
> Good luck. I hope you have the conversation and alleviate your fears. Maybe find out what hers are too.


I guess I may have misunderstood your first post. I thought you were calling me "insanely jealous" because I'm worried about someone seeing something. And you stated your husband was fine with your massage. I figured you were clear that I'm not referring to a draped massage (professional). I'm concerned about an undraped massage (non-professional). 

We have not been together 14 years, only 1 year. I do care enough to commit to her. I'm head over heals in love with her. Like your husband probably will not approve of, I don't want her doing "un-draped massages" and I would not be concerned if her breasts were seen by a cardiologist. But, I'm sure you agree a 2 hour, un-draped, fully nude, massage session is different than a 20 minute doctor visit. And finally, I'd prefer she see a female on-goign if she insists on doing undraped massages. If she does draped than I can accept this as a compromise but I'd probably want her to see a different MT - not sure though. 

One thing I hope you'll consider is that I'm trying to sort out my thoughts on this whole thing - so if I have flipped, flipped on a few things, that's why. That's why I decided to post here, to sort this out and figure out what I can live with it. Not sure why I'm explaining my self to you. :smile2:


----------



## notmyjamie

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> What's with chiropractors, I dunno.
> 
> I went to one during college after a motorcycle accident and ended up kind of a play toy for two female nurses. They were young, I was young. All was ok.
> 
> I was 18 at the time and never thought, and still don't think it was that big a deal.


And speaking of Victorian attitudes, you probably get high fives from guys when you tell this story but this poor women is an automatic cheater who has poor boundaries and can't be trusted. 

Does anyone ever assume you're gonna cheat or get on your case if you go to another chiropractor? You are, after all, putting yourself back into the same position again. I think your wife should be worried!!! (not really....just making a point)


----------



## Anastasia6

wolverine512 said:


> I guess I may have misunderstood your first post. I thought you were calling me "insanely jealous" because I'm worried about someone seeing something. And you stated your husband was fine with your massage. I figured you were clear that I'm not referring to a draped massage (professional). I'm concerned about an undraped massage (non-professional).
> 
> We have not been together 14 years, only 1 year. I do care enough to commit to her. I'm head over heals in love with her. Like your husband probably will not approve of, I don't want her doing "un-draped massages" and I would not be concerned if her breasts were seen by a cardiologist. But, I'm sure you agree a 2 hour, un-draped, fully nude, massage session is different than a 20 minute doctor visit. And finally, I'd prefer she see a female on-goign if she insists on doing undraped massages. If she does draped than I can accept this as a compromise but I'd probably want her to see a different MT - not sure though.
> 
> One thing I hope you'll consider is that I'm trying to sort out my thoughts on this whole thing - so if I have flipped, flipped on a few things, that's why. That's why I decided to post here, to sort this out and figure out what I can live with it. Not sure why I'm explaining my self to you. :smile2:



Well I do apologize. I don't know where I got the 14 years from. The advice still applies. At one point you were concerned draped or not. I would think undraped is not professional and then I could understand your concern. However, I have an answer as to why you are explaining yourself. Its the best answers and what you are actually looking for. You don't really need our opinions so much as you need to bounce ideas around in your brain so you can tell what you feel is true. Whether you agree or disagree with someone doesn't matter in deciding that you agree or disagree helps you create your own boundaries. There are those like Diana that would only feel comfortable with the same sex. And others like the other forum you referenced that would care about opposite sex undraped massages. You have to decide but that is only a decision for you. You have the right to discuss with a partner but you really can't make the decision for her.

My advice still stands you both should have boundary conversations. Not just about this but about the whole thing. Me and my husband agree we won't work alone on a regular basis with the opposite sex. No exceptions. It is one of our boundaries to completely avoid any unintentional emotional affairs which often leads to physical affairs. Do either of us actually worry about the others infidelity. Not in the slightest, not even a little bit. But we agreed to that early on and it is a good idea.

You guys should have some serious conversations about expectations. Boundaries, relationship future, sexual past, kids and religion. If you haven't had those by a year in it is past time. Add in any other topic of great importance to you or her.


----------



## Diana7

sokillme said:


> No offense dude but I think you are doing what lots of guys do making this women way more passive then most of them are. Most women are not children where they can't stop a situation like this if they don't want it. It's not like she describes this as rape. Private office, vulnerable, chiropractor too advantage, and yet here she is putting herself into a similar position.
> 
> On a different note as long as guys continue to think of women as perpetual powerless victims who have no agency in their choices they are going to be taken advantage by said women.


I agree totally. She wasn't a 'vulnerable' woman, she was just as responsible and who knows it may even have been her who made the first move. Either way she was someone well into adult hood who chose to have an affair with a so called professional man who may well have been married as well. Also she has clearly learnt nothing from it as we can see by who she now goes to for massages.


----------



## Lila

Diana7 said:


> I agree totally. She wasn't a 'vulnerable' woman, she was just as responsible and who knows it may even have been her who made the first move. Either way she was someone well into adult hood who* chose to have an affair with a so called professional man who may well have been married as well*. Also she has clearly learnt nothing from it as we can see by who she now goes to for massages.


Why do you keep calling what she did in her previous relationship an affair? There was NO affair. The OP never said the chiropractor dude was married, nor did he imply that what she was doing was an affair. Please do not continue to make up things that are not true. If you need to clarify, ask the OP to clarify.


----------



## notmyjamie

Diana7 said:


> I agree totally. She wasn't a 'vulnerable' woman, she was just as responsible and who knows it may even have been her who made the first move. Either way she was someone well into adult hood who chose to have an affair with a so called professional man who may well have been married as well. Also she has clearly learnt nothing from it as we can see by who she now goes to for massages.


As a person who works in the medical field, we are taught that patients are vulnerable to us because of the care we provide and the position of "authority" we have as their caregiver. That's part of what I mean by vulnerable. The other is that she states she had just divorced and was looking for love in all the wrong places so she was emotionally vulnerable at that time. She still responsible for her own choices of course. But people can and do make stupid choices at vulnerable times in their lives. And she has stated herself she made a mistake and accepts the blame for them. You are adding in the married man component all by yourself. You have no idea if that's true or not. As she was surprised it didn't turn into a relationship I'd guess she thought he was single. It's pretty unfair to judge her on stuff you don't even know is true or not. 

And I disagree that she hasn't learned anything. Most people who make a bad choice in their life do learn something from it. Some could say you didn't learn your lesson because you got married again even though your first marriage didn't work out. But you did learn something and you applied that knowledge I'm sure when searching for a new partner. It's entirely possible she now knows the signs to watch for when a MT is being unprofessional and that's what I mean by she's learned something. You chose to get married again because you felt wiser and better prepared to make the right choice and she may have chosen to get a massage from a man because she feels she's better equipped to deal with anything untoward that might happen. 

In the end, the only one who knows for certain is HER which is why OP needs to ask her and not us.


----------



## Anastasia6

Ok so I asked. And I was surprised. He said he'd be ok if I was ok cause he trusts me. Did not see that coming. He wouldn't like it but he trusts me.


----------



## Diana7

notmyjamie said:


> As a person who works in the medical field, we are taught that patients are vulnerable to us because of the care we provide and the position of "authority" we have as their caregiver. That's part of what I mean by vulnerable. The other is that she states she had just divorced and was looking for love in all the wrong places so she was emotionally vulnerable at that time. She still responsible for her own choices of course. But people can and do make stupid choices at vulnerable times in their lives. And she has stated herself she made a mistake and accepts the blame for them. You are adding in the married man component all by yourself. You have no idea if that's true or not. As she was surprised it didn't turn into a relationship I'd guess she thought he was single. It's pretty unfair to judge her on stuff you don't even know is true or not.
> 
> And I disagree that she hasn't learned anything. Most people who make a bad choice in their life do learn something from it. Some could say you didn't learn your lesson because you got married again even though your first marriage didn't work out. But you did learn something and you applied that knowledge I'm sure when searching for a new partner. It's entirely possible she now knows the signs to watch for when a MT is being unprofessional and that's what I mean by she's learned something. You chose to get married again because you felt wiser and better prepared to make the right choice and she may have chosen to get a massage from a man because she feels she's better equipped to deal with anything untoward that might happen.
> 
> In the end, the only one who knows for certain is HER which is why OP needs to ask her and not us.


He was probably more likely to be married or in a relationships than not, and people who are recently divorced can still make sensible decisions, they are not vulnerable in that way. 
I don't see any lessons learnt, if there had been the least she would do would be to get a female masseur. Especially as now she has a partner and must be aware of the fact that her partner may feel happier if she does, unless she is very naïve. I am betting that if things were reversed she may not be so relaxed about it.


----------



## Diana7

I find it very odd that if a man she met in a bar ran his hands over his partners body, he would go crazy. Yet just because someone has some massage training its ok? Its still a man running his hands over his partners naked body no matter what. Or a women over the husbands body if its the other way round. I just don't see how that's appropriate or acceptable. Especially as we all know that things do happen sometimes.
Protecting your marriage or relationship means making wise and sensible decisions. This is playing with fire.


----------



## Lila

Diana7 said:


> *He was probably more likely to be married or in a relationships than no*t, and people who are recently divorced can still make sensible decisions, they are not vulnerable in that way.
> I don't see any lessons learnt, if there had been the least she would do would be to get a female masseur. Especially as now she has a partner and must be aware of the fact that her partner may feel happier if she does, unless she is very naïve. I am betting that if things were reversed she may not be so relaxed about it.


How do you know this? Are you clairvoyant? Seriously, stop with this madness. You are making stuff up to fit your narrative. It is misleading and things like this have a way of side tracking conversations.


----------



## attheend02

Anastasia6 said:


> Ok so I asked. And I was surprised. He said he'd be ok if I was ok cause he trusts me. Did not see that coming. He wouldn't like it but he trusts me.


I would not test that if I were you. He sounds like an adult, but even adults don't always know how they will react in an uncomfortable situation.


----------



## notmyjamie

Diana7 said:


> He was probably more likely to be married or in a relationships than not, and people who are recently divorced can still make sensible decisions, they are not vulnerable in that way.
> I don't see any lessons learnt, if there had been the least she would do would be to get a female masseur. Especially as now she has a partner and must be aware of the fact that her partner may feel happier if she does, unless she is very naïve. I am betting that if things were reversed she may not be so relaxed about it.


You are very black and white in your thinking and you make lots of assumptions and then judge people on those. You assume the man was married, yet, really, you have no idea. There are millions of single men in the world, why is it hard to believe he was single? I personally would have no problem if my husband went to a female massage therapist. I either trust him or I don't. Yet you assume she'd have a problem with it because you would, when again, you really have no idea. You also assume she knows her boyfriend would be happier if she saw a female, but he has not told her how he feels so how would she know that?? She thinks he trusts her, she never hides the fact that she's getting these massages and her boyfriend has even met the guy. He's had ample time to tell her it bothers him. The fact that he has never said anything would lead her to believe her boyfriend is perfectly okay with it. 

You are a very strong woman and you assume all women are like you. They aren't...many women are very vulnerable after a break up and make really stupid decisions. I belong to a divorced women's group on Facebook and I see evidence of this every damn day. I've seen in in some friends. It's very sad to see to be honest.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

@wolverine512

Have you asked her about it yet?


----------



## Anastasia6

attheend02 said:


> I would not test that if I were you. He sounds like an adult, but even adults don't always know how they will react in an uncomfortable situation.


I would never test it. It crosses the line I would set for myself. 

I would never test or try my husband. I cherish my marriage. We mesh well and trust each other. We have similar views and yet are complete opposites.


----------



## cp3o

sokillme said:


> I'm aware. What is the difference between this and going to prostitutes, besides the fact that at least with prostitutes it's kind of understood what you are getting and it's not under the grounds of a medical procedure in an office where there is the potential/danger of someone walking in on you?


A false dichotomy surely.

Whether or not there is a difference - so what?

Neither situation compares with the lady's current circumstances.

The lady was unattached and decided, freely if perhaps when justifiably vulnerable, to have sex. It's her body and her decision. Though personally I think the chiropractor's behaviour, but not the lady's, reprehensible.

Now, apparently, she does not regard herself as unattached. Most people would regard twelve months in a committed relationship as different to single and recently divorced; and what that has to do with prostitution is beyond understanding by my convoluted brain.

If I had survived jumping off a bridge when a girlfriend dumped me, would you think that I should never go near a bridge again - even though I am in a stable, happy relationship? Granted if I were now on a bridge I could jump, might jump - but if I don't have any motivation I think it very, very unlikely - don't you?


----------



## Tilted 1

Anastasia6 said:


> I would never test it. It crosses the line I would set for myself.
> 
> I would never test or try my husband. I cherish my marriage. We mesh well and trust each other. We have similar views and yet are complete opposites.


I agree with this, but as some have stated, neither side knows if the Ciro was or wasn't married, both are assuming they got it right, but what I see as a issue is this she chose to be naked for the chiropractor, l never ever heard of a thing such as this. But what I do get is that she repeatedly went back time and time again. Why? 

It is because she was possibly bonding with a male and because she felt comfortable with him at that time or currently is why she may chooses the same one all the time. If this was such a caviler issue it wouldn't matter what male she would have. I suspect it could be her way into meeting in such a close upfront and personal way, because as l see things the relationship is that much further ahead. The masseur has seen everything in the light of day. 

Pffft, on anyone who thinks that All people who are in a so medical or so called private moments ( non death moments) Drs nurses, aids who do the prep work the shaving, cleaning, or whatever they may do. Have only a professional mindset all the time, if that is the thought Bull****, maybe you don't think that, but if you do see alot doesn't give a person special perspective but maybe just a eye full. And just a moment of pause of thinking after all your just a human not an angel nor a said canonized saint.

As it was said above if you cherish something you want to protect it, and maybe the OP is a little unnerved he uncomfortable and is here to see if it's unfounded, most males ( l know l am) do not want my woman to be seen by a different men naked draped or not. And if she really wanted only the best for their relationship, would have some clue to continue this course of action or not.

I've also worked in and around the medical field and confirm you give too much credit to Drs who don't think for a second what that would be like? They are more creepy than average guy, it because of their position of vuerabilty is makes them more repulsive. 

I would not be cool with my woman going out for naked massages, because l offered the same but if she chooses because of it's a different set of hands on her, it says alot to me that she's getting more out of it than she leads on. And is offering me only lip service to deescalate her private desires for something more.


----------



## Anastasia6

Tilted 1 said:


> I would not be cool with my woman going out for naked massages, because l offered the same but if she chooses because of it's a different set of hands on her, it says alot to me that she's getting more out of it than she leads on. And is offering me only lip service to deescalate her private desires for something more.


While I love when my husband gives me a massage because it is sexual. There is a reason though they call them massage therapist. My husband does not have the skill of even the worst massage therapist I've had and can't touch the pain like a true therapist. They have training and with time expertise.


----------



## 2ntnuf

To be honest, I've never gotten any nude messages.

:scratchhead:

Maybe I misunderstood the question?


----------



## sokillme

cp3o said:


> A false dichotomy surely.
> 
> Whether or not there is a difference - so what?
> 
> Neither situation compares with the lady's current circumstances.
> 
> The lady was unattached and decided, freely if perhaps when justifiably vulnerable, to have sex. It's her body and her decision. Though personally I think the chiropractor's behaviour, but not the lady's, reprehensible.


Of course it is, never said anything different. But I wouldn't marry said lady. All I am saying.


----------



## sokillme

notmyjamie said:


> LOL...I'm not a dude and I take no offense...it's a good discussion.
> 
> I'm not trying to say she's a victim. I do think he used her vulnerability against her...she was his patient and she thought the sex meant something. Her mistake definitely. And yes, she could have said no. But just because she made a poor choice years ago that doesn't mean she's a cheater. She slept with someone she shouldn't have...many, many people have done that. They don't all go on to cheat on people later on. That's all I'm trying to say.
> 
> I would have no problem if my guy asked me to stick with female massage therapists because he didn't want other guys seeing me naked. I would not be ok if he assumed I was going to cheat based on one past incident in my life that I sincerely regretted and already told him I regretted. OP has already said he is not worried she's going to cheat but I get the feeling you think she is going to cheat. I'm choosing to give her the benefit of the doubt. You don't seem to be the kind of guy to give anyone the benefit of the doubt which is entirely your prerogative of course.


I guess I see having sex with your chiropractor in his office as a very big red flag being really outside of the boundaries of normal behavior. It's like penthouse letters level behavior.


----------



## sokillme

notmyjamie said:


> You are very black and white in your thinking and you make lots of assumptions and then judge people on those. You assume the man was married, yet, really, you have no idea. There are millions of single men in the world, why is it hard to believe he was single? I personally would have no problem if my husband went to a female massage therapist. I either trust him or I don't. Yet you assume she'd have a problem with it because you would, when again, you really have no idea. You also assume she knows her boyfriend would be happier if she saw a female, but he has not told her how he feels so how would she know that?? She thinks he trusts her, she never hides the fact that she's getting these massages and her boyfriend has even met the guy. He's had ample time to tell her it bothers him. The fact that he has never said anything would lead her to believe her boyfriend is perfectly okay with it.
> 
> You are a very strong woman and you assume all women are like you. They aren't...many women are very vulnerable after a break up and make really stupid decisions. I belong to a divorced women's group on Facebook and I see evidence of this every damn day. I've seen in in some friends. It's very sad to see to be honest.


No offense but black and white thinking about this stuff is good, it keeps you safe. Generally if you have a very high bar you filter out all of those Gray people who end up cheating on you.


----------



## cp3o

sokillme said:


> ..... But I wouldn't marry said lady. ........


She might not give you the chance.



sokillme said:


> No offense but black and white thinking about this stuff is good, it keeps you safe. Generally if you have a very high bar you filter out all of those Gray people who end up cheating on you.


The acceptability of this sort of thinking varies depending upon your level of risk aversion - you also filter out all those grey people who would not cheat on you. 

If one is sufficiently scared of choking on solid food one can survive on a liquid diet; me - I chew my steak well knowing I ain't going to live for ever.


----------



## Tilted 1

Anastasia6 said:


> While I love when my husband gives me a massage because it is sexual. There is a reason though they call them massage therapist. My husband does not have the skill of even the worst massage therapist I've had and can't touch the pain like a true therapist. They have training and with time expertise.


I give my wife massages and though l don't make them sexual but therapeutic for her, l have never been told I don't have or don't meet her expectations. And as far as experience been doing this throughout our marriage, and she is always better after it. 

But again you state that you experience a sexual realm because of the massage, and then try to play it off its not because a massage therapist is rubbing you. So its cool that you rationalize the difference or attempt to validate why you go. 

But again, l stand behind my reasoning as to why l have issues with this.


----------



## Tilted 1

2ntnuf said:


> To be honest, I've never gotten any nude messages.
> 
> :scratchhead:
> 
> Maybe I misunderstood the question?


Nope you're understanding correctly nude massages.


----------



## Numb26

Good thing I hate massages!


----------



## sokillme

cp3o said:


> She might not give you the chance.
> 
> 
> 
> The acceptability of this sort of thinking varies depending upon your level of risk aversion - you also filter out all those grey people who would not cheat on you.
> 
> If one is sufficiently scared of choking on solid food one can survive on a liquid diet; me - I chew my steak well knowing I ain't going to live for ever.


She ****ed her doctor in his office. It's not a liquid diet.


----------



## Numb26

sokillme said:


> cp3o said:
> 
> 
> 
> She might not give you the chance.
> 
> 
> 
> The acceptability of this sort of thinking varies depending upon your level of risk aversion - you also filter out all those grey people who would not cheat on you.
> 
> If one is sufficiently scared of choking on solid food one can survive on a liquid diet; me - I chew my steak well knowing I ain't going to live for ever.
> 
> 
> 
> She ****ed her doctor in his office. It's not a liquid diet.
Click to expand...

Well, could be haha


----------



## Diana7

notmyjamie said:


> You are very black and white in your thinking and you make lots of assumptions and then judge people on those. You assume the man was married, yet, really, you have no idea. There are millions of single men in the world, why is it hard to believe he was single? I personally would have no problem if my husband went to a female massage therapist. I either trust him or I don't. Yet you assume she'd have a problem with it because you would, when again, you really have no idea. You also assume she knows her boyfriend would be happier if she saw a female, but he has not told her how he feels so how would she know that?? She thinks he trusts her, she never hides the fact that she's getting these massages and her boyfriend has even met the guy. He's had ample time to tell her it bothers him. The fact that he has never said anything would lead her to believe her boyfriend is perfectly okay with it.
> 
> You are a very strong woman and you assume all women are like you. They aren't...many women are very vulnerable after a break up and make really stupid decisions. I belong to a divorced women's group on Facebook and I see evidence of this every damn day. I've seen in in some friends. It's very sad to see to be honest.


I said that he may well have been married not that he was. There are more adults attached than not attached, and I doubt he would have told her if he was. Even if she knew I doubt she would tell her partner as it looks bad if he was.


----------



## Diana7

sokillme said:


> No offense but black and white thinking about this stuff is good, it keeps you safe. Generally if you have a very high bar you filter out all of those Gray people who end up cheating on you.


I agree, and having strong black and white boundaries for ourselves is a very wise thing. Having boundaries because we want to protect our marriage is also very wise. Apart from that, I would see it is very disrespectful to my husband to go and let another man run his hands all over my body and see me naked, that's for him not another man.
For us it wouldn't be about trust, but about what is and isn't appropriate for us to do with someone of the opposite sex. I wouldn't go out for a meal alone with another man, so why would I even think of letting another man massage most of my body? 

There are far more female masseurs about, there is no reason not to go to one if we are women. Its about making wise and sensible choices, and not putting ourselves into a position where we may compromise our values. For the ops partner she has already seen that things can happen in these situations but she still hasn't learnt from it.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Diana7 said:


> I said that he may well have been married not that he was. There are more adults attached than not attached,


Nope, not anymore in the US.

Yes, I am ignoring the goal post moving semantics.


----------



## Spicy

I’m curious if your GF would be fine with you having a 2 hour massage with a hot female MT, naked and on a regular basis?

To the original question - Yes, I would be very concerned if I were you.

The _only_ times in our relationship where my H has had a woman PT has been when it is a couples massage where we are together in the same room. (I still shoot him the evil eye a few times during that, which makes us both giggle. >)

To us, this is a clear boundary not to be crossed. *Simply: We are married so we are not alone naked with people of the opposite sex massaging us*. This is not a life saving procedure we require. It’s optional! Heck, for most people it’s a splurge! This isn’t someone of the opposite sex needing to examine our nude spouse to check for cancer! It’s a freaking nude massage. 

Protect your relationship and don’t allow things this absurd to be viewed as acceptable to you if they are not!


----------



## syhoybenden

Perhaps I'm just totally naive, but the only massage places in my neck of the woods offering a totally nude massage are no more than thinly disguised brothels.

In our social circle we were once acquainted with an R.M.T. (Registered Massage Therapist), who specialized in Reiki massage. Sadly her marriage came to an end a few years ago when her husband found out that she had incorporated "happy endings" into her repertoire.


----------



## minimalME

Somewhat of a highjack, but for me, these are more of a luxury. They're in really nice spots - many of them in great hotels. 

And it's an experience for your senses, which is why having clothes on tends to interrupt the flow - but it's *not* a sexual thing.

The atmosphere is meant to be appealing - the temperature, the lighting, the smells, etc. It's very soothing and relaxing.

And like I said in the beginning, I prefer females, so that's not an issue for me and not something I have to worry about.

Maybe it's just a matter of associations and mindset? I can see how it all could be misconstrued.



syhoybenden said:


> Perhaps I'm just totally naive, but the only massage places in my neck of the woods offering a totally nude massage are no more than thinly disguised brothels.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Anastasia6 said:


> Well that didn't happen. He doesn't respond to random women who aren't making moves on him. I was there too. It was a couples massage.
> 
> He also get sex regular so he isn't exactly desparate.


That's good.

I do too, but that just gets my attention if you will.😉😉


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Now that we have the projection and venting out let’s continue.

Talk to you gf, tell her how you feel and be done with it. If she says she will continue nude massages, understand if this is a boundary that doesn’t bother you. If it is enough to make you leave, move on.



Ultimately, your happiness is up to you and the same goes for her.


----------



## wolverine512

So I had the conversation with her last night. She swears to me that she is and has always been draped even with the Chiro guy. I'm not certain I got all of my questions answered but I'm satisfied for the moment. She asked me whether or not, this will be an ongoing issue or concern for me and I said no. But TBH, im not certain of this. I guess I'm trying to be strong and demonstrate that I trust her. Time will tell. 

We talked about a lot of things and the one thing that I should have asked her is whether she would consider going only to females if I find that this still bothers me later on. I plan to ask her this question tonight. 

If the rolls were reversed and it was me who had sex with a past therapist and i continued to see females, and it bothered her, I would switch to a male without batting an eye lash, to make her happy. 

I asked her about why she manicured herself prior to the last massage and she said she cannot remember doing that. Not sure I like this answer, because I feel like she should remember since it was the first and only time I dropped her off at her massage. So I may press her on this too, not sure.

Regarding the Chiro, she said he was flirty with other women too and I wish she had reported him, but I understand why she didn't. The chiro didn't rape her and im sure she doesn't want this to go public that she slept with her Dr. 

Anyway, that's my update. Im not fully satisfied but i will continue to ask questions.

Thanks for all the input, everyone.


----------



## wolverine512

One thing we did talk about is that I continue to watch massage instruction videos to improve the massages i give her and suggested we invest in a massage table. She said good, then she can give up paying for massages.


----------



## Faithful Wife

wolverine512 said:


> One thing we did talk about is that I continue to watch massage instruction videos to improve the massages i give her and suggested we invest in a massage table. She said good, then she can give up paying for massages.


I can’t remember if anyone asked you this already but have you had a professional massage ever? You should have one. Then you would understand the draping situation.

When I have one I always wear a pair of ratty underwear and I leave them on the whole time. I see no reason not to wear them. If oil gets on them no big deal that’s why I wear some ratty old ones. There’s nothing about wearing underwear that interferes with the massage. They can get to my legs and glutes just fine. They still keep me draped the whole time.

For me, the draping sometimes gets too hot and I have to trade the blanket thing for a sheet thing.


----------



## Anastasia6

Tilted 1 said:


> I give my wife massages and though l don't make them sexual but therapeutic for her, l have never been told I don't have or don't meet her expectations. And as far as experience been doing this throughout our marriage, and she is always better after it.
> 
> But again you state that you experience a sexual realm because of the massage, and then try to play it off its not because a massage therapist is rubbing you. So its cool that you rationalize the difference or attempt to validate why you go.
> 
> But again, l stand behind my reasoning as to why l have issues with this.


It isn't some random rationalization. My MT gives hard almost painful massages to loosen knots. My MT never rubs my butt, breast or vagina. My husband gives sensual light massages and has an edible massage oil and rubs my breast my butt and my vagina. Totally different things. My doctor feels my breast at least once per year for lumps. Not sexual. My husband feels my breast for fun. 

I didn't state I experience a sexual realm because of the massage I experience a sexual realm because IT's MY HUSBAND. I could eat dinner or lunch with him and it can get me excited. Eating lunch with others does not. The sexual realm has more to do with the person than the massage though once my husband starts in on the naughty bits that is because of the massage. 

Sheesh. Have issues all you want but don't try to make it like the two are the same.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

wolverine512 said:


> So I had the conversation with her last night. She swears to me that she is and has always been draped even with the Chiro guy. I'm not certain I got all of my questions answered but I'm satisfied for the moment. She asked me whether or not, this will be an ongoing issue or concern for me and I said no. But TBH, im not certain of this. I guess I'm trying to be strong and demonstrate that I trust her. Time will tell.
> 
> We talked about a lot of things and the one thing that I should have asked her is whether she would consider going only to females if I find that this still bothers me later on. I plan to ask her this question tonight.
> 
> If the rolls were reversed and it was me who had sex with a past therapist and i continued to see females, and it bothered her, I would switch to a male without batting an eye lash, to make her happy.
> 
> I asked her about why she manicured herself prior to the last massage and she said she cannot remember doing that. Not sure I like this answer, because I feel like she should remember since it was the first and only time I dropped her off at her massage. So I may press her on this too, not sure.
> 
> Regarding the Chiro, she said he was flirty with other women too and I wish she had reported him, but I understand why she didn't. The chiro didn't rape her and im sure she doesn't want this to go public that she slept with her Dr.
> 
> Anyway, that's my update. Im not fully satisfied but i will continue to ask questions.
> 
> Thanks for all the input, everyone.


See, this is how relationships go down the tube. 

You lied to her then came here and told the truth. We are nobodies on the internet. This is a minor issue that can loom large. You should have told her, “Yes, it still bothers me, but I trust you.”

Get on those videos at least she gave you an out. Sounds like she handled it better than you.


----------



## Tilted 1

wolverine512 said:


> One thing we did talk about is that I continue to watch massage instruction videos to improve the massages i give her and suggested we invest in a massage table. She said good, then she can give up paying for massages.


Yup I got me one also, and nope no edible oils but l do use aromatherapy, when she done with the massage she does bath bombs and l just move the aroma device to the bathroom, l use old sheets and wash right after use.


----------



## Tilted 1

Anastasia6 said:


> It isn't some random rationalization. My MT gives hard almost painful massages to loosen knots. My MT never rubs my butt, breast or vagina. My husband gives sensual light massages and has an edible massage oil and rubs my breast my butt and my vagina. Totally different things. My doctor feels my breast at least once per year for lumps. Not sexual. My husband feels my breast for fun.
> 
> I didn't state I experience a sexual realm because of the massage I experience a sexual realm because IT's MY HUSBAND. I could eat dinner or lunch with him and it can get me excited. Eating lunch with others does not. The sexual realm has more to do with the person than the massage though once my husband starts in on the naughty bits that is because of the massage.
> 
> Sheesh. Have issues all you want but don't try to make it like the two are the same.


Ho-hum.


----------



## JustTheWife

*Deidre* said:


> In a reputable spa, if you were to report his behavior, they'd take it seriously, and likely fire him, is what I meant by ''reputable.''
> 
> As far as your experience goes, I've heard of that happening. I think it's because when we're getting a massage, we're trusting and in somehwat of a vulnerable position. Still wrong that the MT pushed the boundaries like that!


I probably should have reported him. I'm sure he would have been instantly fired. As I said, it was a pretty nice spa attached to a hotel, not some sleazy place. But I just wanted to move on and not make a big deal about it. And I know that i didn't try to stop it so have my part in it too.

Trusting and vulnerable is exactly right. The normal barriers are not there when you're laying there naked on a table (even if draped like I was to begin with) and a man is touching you all over. It can be like reality is suspended. It's VERY easy for it to just progress to something that was not planned. I have really mixed feelings about it. I should have stopped it before it progressed but I didn't. It happened really really fast or at least it seemed that way.

He was really good looking and arrogant so it was like he thought he could do anything and get away with it.

I couldn't believe it was happening and then when i left i was like in a daze for a while. Like, I can't believe that happened.

If people don't think this doesn't happen then I just wanted to let people know that it does. It has nothing to do with being "draped" or not.


----------



## notmyjamie

wolverine512 said:


> So I had the conversation with her last night. She swears to me that she is and has always been draped even with the Chiro guy. I'm not certain I got all of my questions answered but I'm satisfied for the moment. She asked me whether or not, this will be an ongoing issue or concern for me and I said no. But TBH, im not certain of this. I guess I'm trying to be strong and demonstrate that I trust her. Time will tell.
> 
> We talked about a lot of things and the one thing that I should have asked her is whether she would consider going only to females if I find that this still bothers me later on. I plan to ask her this question tonight.
> 
> If the rolls were reversed and it was me who had sex with a past therapist and i continued to see females, and it bothered her, I would switch to a male without batting an eye lash, to make her happy.
> 
> I asked her about why she manicured herself prior to the last massage and she said she cannot remember doing that. Not sure I like this answer, because I feel like she should remember since it was the first and only time I dropped her off at her massage. So I may press her on this too, not sure.
> 
> Regarding the Chiro, she said he was flirty with other women too and I wish she had reported him, but I understand why she didn't. The chiro didn't rape her and im sure she doesn't want this to go public that she slept with her Dr.
> 
> Anyway, that's my update. Im not fully satisfied but i will continue to ask questions.
> 
> Thanks for all the input, everyone.



I hope you don’t mind me saying so but you just made a big mistake. You’re worrying that you can’t really trust her when you’re lying to her yourself. 

Go back to her and tell her you’ve thought about it some more and you want her to switch to a female massage therapist. Be honest, the idea of another man seeing her in that state of undress and rubbing his hands all over her body bothers you. It would bother a lot of men to be honest. My boyfriend would not be happy with it either.

I’d be shocked if she refused. She already asked if this was going to be a problem going forward. She wants to know so tell her the truth. By lying you’ve made her think everything is ok and meanwhile you’re just building up resentment towards her. That’s completely unfair to her. 

I wish you well.


----------



## sokillme

wolverine512 said:


> So I had the conversation with her last night. She swears to me that she is and has always been draped even with the Chiro guy. I'm not certain I got all of my questions answered but I'm satisfied for the moment. She asked me whether or not, this will be an ongoing issue or concern for me and I said no. But TBH, im not certain of this. I guess I'm trying to be strong and demonstrate that I trust her. Time will tell.
> 
> We talked about a lot of things and the one thing that I should have asked her is whether she would consider going only to females if I find that this still bothers me later on. I plan to ask her this question tonight.
> 
> If the rolls were reversed and it was me who had sex with a past therapist and i continued to see females, and it bothered her, I would switch to a male without batting an eye lash, to make her happy.
> 
> I asked her about why she manicured herself prior to the last massage and she said she cannot remember doing that. Not sure I like this answer, because I feel like she should remember since it was the first and only time I dropped her off at her massage. So I may press her on this too, not sure.
> 
> Regarding the Chiro, she said he was flirty with other women too and I wish she had reported him, but I understand why she didn't. The chiro didn't rape her and im sure she doesn't want this to go public that she slept with her Dr.
> 
> Anyway, that's my update. Im not fully satisfied but i will continue to ask questions.
> 
> Thanks for all the input, everyone.


Jesus, just ask her to switch to a female massage therapist. That will give you her answer. It shouldn't be this hard. 

Reading the stories here everyone saying having someone of the opposite sex rubbing oil all over your body in a intimate setting even if they don't touch the naughty parts is no big deal are delusional. When you are on a diet you don't go stare at the donuts. The point is you need to avoid any temptations or anything that would give even the light hit of impropriety.


----------



## sokillme

JustTheWife said:


> I probably should have reported him. I'm sure he would have been instantly fired. As I said, it was a pretty nice spa attached to a hotel, not some sleazy place. But I just wanted to move on and not make a big deal about it. And I know that i didn't try to stop it so have my part in it too.
> 
> Trusting and vulnerable is exactly right. The normal barriers are not there when you're laying there naked on a table (even if draped like I was to begin with) and a man is touching you all over. It can be like reality is suspended. It's VERY easy for it to just progress to something that was not planned. I have really mixed feelings about it. I should have stopped it before it progressed but I didn't. It happened really really fast or at least it seemed that way.
> 
> He was really good looking and arrogant so it was like he thought he could do anything and get away with it.
> 
> I couldn't believe it was happening and then when i left i was like in a daze for a while. Like, I can't believe that happened.
> 
> If people don't think this doesn't happen then I just wanted to let people know that it does. It has nothing to do with being "draped" or not.


Were you married at the time?


----------



## Lila

sokillme said:


> Jesus, just ask her to switch to a female massage therapist. That will give you her answer. It shouldn't be this hard.
> 
> *Reading the stories here everyone saying having someone of the opposite sex rubbing oil all over your body in a intimate setting even if they don't touch the naughty parts is no big deal are delusional*. When you are on a diet you don't go stair at the donuts. The point is you need to avoid any temptations or anything that would give even the lights hit of impropriety.


And I'm sure those people think you're a insecure, jealous freak. If you don't wish people to cast aspersions on you, don't go casting aspersions.


----------



## ConanHub

sokillme said:


> Reading the stories here everyone saying having someone of the opposite sex rubbing oil all over your body in a intimate setting even if they don't touch the naughty parts is no big deal are delusional. When you are on a diet you don't go stair at the donuts. The point is you need to avoid any temptations or anything that would give even the lights hit of impropriety.


I can't even have my hair cut by a man much less get a massage from one.

Traumatic childhood. I feel safe to be touched by women and thems the breaks.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

JustTheWife said:


> I probably should have reported him. I'm sure he would have been instantly fired. As I said, it was a pretty nice spa attached to a hotel, not some sleazy place. But I just wanted to move on and not make a big deal about it. And I know that i didn't try to stop it so have my part in it too.
> 
> Trusting and vulnerable is exactly right. The normal barriers are not there when you're laying there naked on a table (even if draped like I was to begin with) and a man is touching you all over. It can be like reality is suspended. It's VERY easy for it to just progress to something that was not planned. I have really mixed feelings about it. I should have stopped it before it progressed but I didn't. It happened really really fast or at least it seemed that way.
> 
> He was really good looking and arrogant so it was like he thought he could do anything and get away with it.
> 
> I couldn't believe it was happening and then when i left i was like in a daze for a while. Like, I can't believe that happened.
> 
> If people don't think this doesn't happen then I just wanted to let people know that it does. It has nothing to do with being "draped" or not.


 Did you tell your husband? What did he say?


----------



## wolverine512

So I have been thinking about this over the weekend and have more questions for her. I know some of you think I'm making this more difficult than it needs to be but again, I want to do this right and not come off as a jealous freak AND sometimes, it's difficult to remember all the questions you had to begin with. The questions I will be asking her tonight (hopefully) are as follows:

1) When did the Chiropractor thing happen exactly. I realized this weekend I really don't know when this happened. She was separated (lived in the basement) from her husband for 1 year while working out their divorce. Soon after the divorce was finalized she started dating a guy. She dated someone for 3 years prior to me so, did the Chiro thing happen before, during or after her last relationship?
2) How long has she been seeing her current MT and is he married/single?
3) What would happen if her seeing a male MT continues to be a problem for me? (I had told her it would not be, but as someone here so graciously pointed out, that is not true.) At best, I don't know for sure if it will be and if I'm to be entirely truthful, it more than likely will continue to be an issue, which is clear based on the fact that I still have all these questions. I'm thinking one response she may have to this is that she might say I don't trust her. I'm hoping she'll say, she'd be ok switching to a female but if she goes the "I don't trust her route" then I will reply with: 
a) She has demonstrated some issues with trust/jealousy herself - one time I told her a funny story about when I got a vasectomy. My ex was in the room and she didn't like hearing about my "ex and my penis". She was visibly upset but the story was not to highlight my ex and my penis. It was a funny story about the Dr's response to me being shaven down there.
b) She has gotten mad at me a couple of times for texting while sitting on the couch together. The time that comes to mind, I was texting with my kids but she felt I was trying to hide the texts, which wasn't the case at all. I let her know that I will communicate with her who I'm texting with and will never have any issue showing her who I'm texting with, if necessary.
c) She made this same "texting my other girlfriend" joke one night after we got home from dancing. She was super tired so went right up to bed. I got the dog out and took care of dishes etc... and took awhile to get to bed. In the morning she "jokingly" said that I had taken a long time to come to bed so I must've been texting with my other girlfriend. 

I know these other girlfriend jokes may be just that - an attempt at humor but I also think there is an element of truth to them that shows that this may be a concern or an area of jealousy for her, which by the way, I think everyone deals with from time to time - some more than others. And I know there will be people here who accuse me of being insanely jealous. I don't care! She slept with her Chiropractor. Take that out of the equation and this post would have never happened.

This is all to point out that part of trust being built is to avoid putting yourself in compromising positions that can be misinterpreted. I used to go a marriage seminars with my ex-wife and one of the things they taught is that the appearance of impropriety can be as bad as the impropriety itself. Example: If all of a sudden you start working late hours with an attractive co-worker, even if nothing is going on, that could create the appearance of impropriety and should be avoided in honor of your SO. There are many other examples too, one of which is....well....don't continue seeing a MT of the opposite sex when you have already had sex with one in the past. Another example is, if your SO has issues with you texting, don't hide them and be ok with letting her know who you're texting with and even allow her to see the texts if necessary.

I will also ask her what would happen if the roles were reversed. How would she feel it were me who had sex with a female MT and insisted on continuing to see a female MT's only - even though the sex of a MT you choose is entirely optional. There are plenty of brilliant female massage therapists out there who will massage her just as well, maybe even better than her current MT. I know some of you ladies will say you prefer the size and strength of a Male MT. There are women who are just as strong. I got a massage from a woman who could challenge any man to hand strength. She was built like a brick **** house. And, given the circumstances, I don't think I would be unfair to ask her to switch, even if the massage was not quite as good. I believe it's a matter of priorities - ease your SO's concerns or stay with a male. 

I will also let her know that if roles were reversed, I would have already recognized that's it's an issue for her and would have already volunteered to switch to a male. I would not be holding out to see if it's an issue, I would've have already switched. 

I'm curious if anyone thinks there are other questions I should be asking or if I should avoid bringing up any of the examples of jealousy that I've seen her demonstrate.

Thanks!


----------



## Faithful Wife

wolverine512 said:


> So I have been thinking about this over the weekend and have more questions for her. I know some of you think I'm making this more difficult than it needs to be but again, I want to do this right and not come off as a jealous freak AND sometimes, it's difficult to remember all the questions you had to begin with. The questions I will be asking her tonight (hopefully) are as follows:
> 
> 1) When did the Chiropractor thing happen exactly. I realized this weekend I really don't know when this happened. She was separated (lived in the basement) from her husband for 1 year while working out their divorce. Soon after the divorce was finalized she started dating a guy. She dated someone for 3 years prior to me so, did the Chiro thing happen before, during or after her last relationship?
> 2) How long has she been seeing her current MT and is he married/single?
> 3) What would happen if her seeing a male MT continues to be a problem for me? (I had told her it would not be, but as someone here so graciously pointed out, that is not true.) At best, I don't know for sure if it will be and if I'm to be entirely truthful, it more than likely will continue to be an issue, which is clear based on the fact that I still have all these questions. I'm thinking one response she may have to this is that she might say I don't trust her. I'm hoping she'll say, she'd be ok switching to a female but if she goes the "I don't trust her route" then I will reply with:
> a) She has demonstrated some issues with trust/jealousy herself - one time I told her a funny story about when I got a vasectomy. My ex was in the room and she didn't like hearing about my "ex and my ****". She was visibly upset but the story was not to highlight my ex and my ****. It was a funny story about the Dr's response to me being shaven down there.
> b) She has gotten mad at me a couple of times for texting while sitting on the couch together. The time that comes to mind, I was texting with my kids but she felt I was trying to hide the texts, which wasn't the case at all. I let her know that I will communicate with her who I'm texting with and will never have any issue showing her who I'm texting with, if necessary.
> c) She made this same "texting my other girlfriend" joke one night after we got home from dancing. She was super tired so went right up to bed. I got the dog out and took care of dishes etc... and took awhile to get to bed. In the morning she "jokingly" said that I had taken a long time to come to bed so I must've been texting with my other girlfriend.
> 
> I know these other girlfriend jokes may just be that - an attempt at humor but I also think there is an element of truth to them that shows that this may be a concern or an area of jealousy for he, which by the way, I think everyone deals with from time to time - some more than others. And I know there will be people here who accuse me of being insanely jealous. I don't care! She slept with her Chiropractor. Take that out of the equation and this post would have never happened.
> 
> This is all to point out that part of trust being built is to avoid putting yourself in compromising positions that can be misinterpreted. I used to go a marriage seminars with my ex-wife and one of the things they taught is that the appearance of impropriety can be as bad as the impropriety itself. Example: If all of a sudden you start working late hours with an attractive co-worker, even if nothing is going on, that could create the appearance of impropriety and should be avoided in honor of your SO. There are many other examples too, one of which is....well....don't continue seeing a MT of the opposite sex when you have already had sex with one in the past. Another example is, if your SO has issues with you texting, don't hide them and be ok with letting her know who you're texting with and even allow her to see the texts if necessary.
> 
> I will also ask her what would happen if the roles were reversed. How would she feel it were me who had sex with a female MT and insisted on continuing to see a female MT's only - even though the sex of a MT you choose is entirely optional. There are plenty of brilliant female massage therapists out there who will massage her just as well, maybe even better than her current MT. I know some of you ladies will say you prefer the size and strength of a Male MT. There are women who are just as strong. I got a massage from a woman who could challenge any man to hand strength. She was built like a brick **** house. And, given the circumstances, I don't think I would be unfair to ask her to switch, even if the massage was not quite as good. I believe it's a matter of priorities - ease your SO's concerns or stay with a male.
> 
> I will also let her know that if roles were reversed, I would have already recognized that's it's an issue for her and would have already volunteered to switch to a male. I would not be holding out to see if it's an issue, I would've have already switched.
> 
> I'm curious if anyone thinks there are other questions I should be asking.
> 
> Thanks!


I think you should openly admit to her that this whole situation is making you extremely jealous. Which will be obvious by all the questions anyway, but if you try to play this off as if this is all her fault for sleeping with the chiro then you will be gas lighting her. Just tell her it is making you crazy jealous and you really want to get past it and be reassured by her. You need to be honest about how much this is bothering you. Then she will see for herself how big the problem is. If you keep questioning her over and over but also saying you aren’t jealous it’s just making you look nutty.


----------



## wolverine512

Faithful Wife said:


> I think you should openly admit to her that this whole situation is making you extremely jealous. Which will be obvious by all the questions anyway, but if you try to play this off as if this is all her fault for sleeping with the chiro then you will be gas lighting her. Just tell her it is making you crazy jealous and you really want to get past it and be reassured by her. You need to be honest about how much this is bothering you. Then she will see for herself how big the problem is. If you keep questioning her over and over but also saying you aren’t jealous it’s just making you look nutty.


Excellent advice! I am jealous over this. It's true! Thank you!! I will do that.


----------



## wilson

I may have missed this, but how often does she get a massage? Does she have a health condition that needs to be treated or is more for relaxation and enjoyment? Since she was going to the chiro, I'm wondering if she has a chronic issue.

I'm not sure it's fair to tell her to go to a female MT. Even if the technique is exactly the same, she may feel uncomfortable being touched by a woman in that way. I'm sure some men would feel strange having a man's hands on them for a massage. And the reality is, you want to be with someone who is faithful no matter the situation. If getting a massage from a man causes her to go over the line, she'll go over the line in many other situations. Her boundaries would be pretty poor if her line is that easy to cross. A truly faithful person will be faithful in all cirumstances. So I don't see asking her to switch to a female MT would make a huge difference in the long-term for these kinds of issues.

I feel if you go down the path of asking these questions, it's probably the start of the end. It's likely a sign that you guys are not compatible. You don't want to act like her parent looking over her shoulder to keep her on the right path. You mentioned the examples of avoiding situations where there is appearance of impropriety. That is something which is more of a core attribute of a person rather than something you can force someone to do. If that is important to you, you should be with a person who demonstrates that rather than trying to get someone to conform to that.


----------



## wolverine512

wilson said:


> I may have missed this, but how often does she get a massage? Does she have a health condition that needs to be treated or is more for relaxation and enjoyment? Since she was going to the chiro, I'm wondering if she has a chronic issue.
> 
> I'm not sure it's fair to tell her to go to a female MT. Even if the technique is exactly the same, she may feel uncomfortable being touched by a woman in that way. I'm sure some men would feel strange having a man's hands on them for a massage. And the reality is, you want to be with someone who is faithful no matter the situation. If getting a massage from a man causes her to go over the line, she'll go over the line in many other situations. Her boundaries would be pretty poor if her line is that easy to cross. A truly faithful person will be faithful in all cirumstances. So I don't see asking her to switch to a female MT would make a huge difference in the long-term for these kinds of issues.
> 
> I feel if you go down the path of asking these questions, it's probably the start of the end. It's likely a sign that you guys are not compatible. You don't want to act like her parent looking over her shoulder to keep her on the right path. You mentioned the examples of avoiding situations where there is appearance of impropriety. That is something which is more of a core attribute of a person rather than something you can force someone to do. If that is important to you, you should be with a person who demonstrates that rather than trying to get someone to conform to that.


She does have regular issues with sore muscles and headaches - so I do see her need for massages. She gets massage about once per month - for two hours at a time. I also give them to her several times a week. She does not have any issue being touched be a female. She has not gone to the chiro since we met - only massage. I'm not acting like her parent. I'm acting like someone who is trying to forge a long term relationship. Like she was put at ease about the texting thing and I know she appreciated my willingness to be an open book around texting, I would be asking her to do the same regarding massages. If her response is a "hell to the no, I'm not switching and I don't care whether it puts you at east or not", then you might be right. I would need to make a decision at that point whether this is the right relationship for me or not.

And I guess I'm not sure why you think it needs to be so black and white. I truly love this woman and I think she truly loves me. I have no problem and in fact love it when she calls me out on something that offends her about something that I've said or done. It's communication. To me her displaying jealousy is a sign that she really cares about me. I mean, if she was one of these people who could care less what I did, that would be a little concerning too. I think jealousy is a normal human emotion. Certainly, there is a line where jealousy can be extreme and cause problems. But I feel like this is an extreme situation and I am jealous about it. But I love her VERY MUCH, so I'd rather explore opportunities for compromise than make it so black and white that I just leave the relationship.

I don't text other women but I understand her need to be certain of that when the appearance of me possibly texting other women exists. Easy compromise is, I'll tell you who I'm texting and will show you and even allow you access to my phone whenever you want to look at it.


----------



## BluesPower

Help me understand why, if you don't remember things well, you did not write it down.

I mean, dude, you come here for advice, and you don't admit the it bothers you for WHATEVER FREAKING REASON, it bothers you. 

Are you always this passive with stuff like this, are you scared of your GF, or what? 

Look, My GF (Fiancé now) had an dude that was an orbiter. She never slept with him, and I don't really care if she did, but he hung around and was a problem, Simply because he was hanging around in a way. 

That lasted about 5 minutes after we decided to be together. And I told her that this dude has to go away and it has to happen now. 

If she had said no I would have been fine with it, but I would not be with her. 

If you have a problem for whatever reason, don't be a puss, just say it and stand by it. 

BTW, some of that behavior is a little shady that you just described in your last post...

Have you thought about all of her behaviors? 

And not knowing the she groomed before she left, yeah, right. 

I don't know about some of this, it just seems kind of on the edge at the very least...


----------



## wolverine512

BluesPower said:


> Help me understand why, if you don't remember things well, you did not write it down.
> 
> I mean, dude, you come here for advice, and you don't admit the it bothers you for WHATEVER FREAKING REASON, it bothers you.
> 
> Are you always this passive with stuff like this, are you scared of your GF, or what?
> 
> Look, My GF (Fiancé now) had an dude that was an orbiter. She never slept with him, and I don't really care if she did, but he hung around and was a problem, Simply because he was hanging around in a way.
> 
> That lasted about 5 minutes after we decided to be together. And I told her that this dude has to go away and it has to happen now.
> 
> If she had said no I would have been fine with it, but I would not be with her.
> 
> If you have a problem for whatever reason, don't be a puss, just say it and stand by it.
> 
> BTW, some of that behavior is a little shady that you just described in your last post...
> 
> Have you thought about all of her behaviors?
> 
> And not knowing the she groomed before she left, yeah, right.
> 
> I don't know about some of this, it just seems kind of on the edge at the very least...


I had worked it out in my head a ton of times before having the convo so thought I didn't need notes. Also, I felt it would be weird to pull out notes. This time I have notes. You say passive, I say thoughtful and careful.


----------



## BluesPower

wolverine512 said:


> I had worked it out in my head a ton of times before having the convo so thought I didn't need notes. Also, I felt it would be weird to pull out notes. This time I have notes. You say passive, I say thoughtful and careful.


Yeah, you say thoughtful, most other people would say passive... 

You see, when in relationships is it a problems to speak our mind? If it is a problem, why is it a problem.

Ask yourself this, why am I sacred to just talk openly with my GF? Why is that? You can't have a real concern about things? 

Your feelings don't matter? What is that about? 

You are not being some jealous nut job, lots of guys might have an issue with some of this. 

My GF did not screw her Chiro and I would not be ok with nude massage from a Male MT. Draped or not, I would not be ok with it...


----------



## Middle of Everything

Anastasia6 said:


> It isn't some random rationalization. My MT gives hard almost painful massages to loosen knots. *My MT never rubs my butt, breast or vagina*. My husband gives sensual light massages and has an edible massage oil and rubs my breast my butt and my vagina. Totally different things. My doctor feels my breast at least once per year for lumps. Not sexual. My husband feels my breast for fun.
> 
> I didn't state I experience a sexual realm because of the massage I experience a sexual realm because IT's MY HUSBAND. I could eat dinner or lunch with him and it can get me excited. Eating lunch with others does not. The sexual realm has more to do with the person than the massage though once my husband starts in on the naughty bits that is because of the massage.
> 
> Sheesh. Have issues all you want but don't try to make it like the two are the same.


I had to LOL.

Butt? Ok I can see clarifying that. Some might. People might wonder if it is massaged. It is a muscle after all.

Breasts and Vagina? WTF? No.1 I REALLY hope you mean vulva. Which should still be a duh. A masseuse shouldn't touch that. But vagina? Ummmmmm. I'm really having a talk with my naive wife who just fell off the turnip truck after being born yesterday if she thinks _that_ needs to be massaged (by someone else at least )


----------



## wolverine512

BluesPower said:


> Yeah, you say thoughtful, most other people would say passive...
> 
> You see, when in relationships is it a problems to speak our mind? If it is a problem, why is it a problem.
> 
> Ask yourself this, why am I sacred to just talk openly with my GF? Why is that? You can't have a real concern about things?
> 
> Your feelings don't matter? What is that about?
> 
> You are not being some jealous nut job, lots of guys might have an issue with some of this.
> 
> My GF did not screw her Chiro and I would not be ok with nude massage from a Male MT. Draped or not, I would not be ok with it...


It's more me as far as why I'm taking my time to speak my mind. My willingness to play the hard line in this situation is in direct proportion to what I have to lose. I play the hard line and potentially lose the most amazing woman I have ever met. Also, I really wasn't sure how I would feel about this after spending time thinking about it. I didn't want to rush into this thing like a bull in a china shop and then regret losing her. I really wanted to figure out if I could be ok with her seeing a male MT. Part of this has to do with so many people online being ok with it. People I have interacted with have caused me to question my own beliefs on this issue. Am I just being a jealous freak or do I have a legitimate concern? I found my answer.


----------



## manfromlamancha

OK I thought I would weigh in with my tuppence worth of thinking:

Wolverine, I do not see why everyone is making a fuss out of this - you are well within your rights and it is indeed normal to be concerned about this.

This is what I understand (feel free to correct me if I am wrong about any of this):



Most normal men do not like other men touching their women - period. This is especially worse if their woman is naked. The only time this might be necessary is if the man is a surgeon or a special doctor (masseurs and chiros do not count). Do not let anyone give you a hard time over this.


I know that chiropractors are used a lot in the USA but in many other parts of the world they are seen as questionable - osteopaths are far more qualified and useful and treat problems longer-term. When you get a chiro that is behaving badly many would not be surprised. So again you need to be careful of them.


Your girlfriend has demonstrated questionable boundaries in the not too distant past - again no arguing about that. All this [email protected] about consenting adults etc is baloney. People do not go and see a medical practitioner and be open to having sex with them - that is simply not normal and would be considered bad behaviour on both their parts. Again you have every right to be concerned about this.


If this happened while she was in any kind of relationship with anyone, then that is a ginormous red flag. Again you are right to question her about this.


And do not let anyone tell you that a male masseur is more powerful or forceful than a female one. I can introduce to some that are 5 foot nothing that can make a marine cry! And very effective too.


I agree with those that say do not beat around the bush - get straight to the point and make her understand how you feel and where you stand.


Good luck.


----------



## BluesPower

wolverine512 said:


> It's more me as far as why I'm taking my time to speak my mind. My willingness to play the hard line in this situation is in direct proportion to what I have to lose. I play the hard line and potentially lose the most amazing woman I have ever met. Also, I really wasn't sure how I would feel about this after spending time thinking about it. I didn't want to rush into this thing like a bull in a china shop and then regret losing her. I really wanted to figure out if I could be ok with her seeing a male MT. Part of this has to do with so many people online being ok with it. People I have interacted with have caused me to question my own beliefs on this issue. Am I just being a jealous freak or do I have a legitimate concern? I found my answer.


Oh, OK. 

I guess you live you life differently than me. Which is not really that surprising I guess. 

See, some would say that 1) you find your boundary and 2) you set that boundary. I kind of think that way. 

Seems to save a lot of Bull **** in my life. 

I am not cool with a draped "nude" massage. "Do you have a problem only going to female MT's?" 

Oh, you do. OK, I hope your life is great, see ya...

But that probably does not work for you, and I guess lots of others.

I really hope all of this works out for you...


----------



## wolverine512

BluesPower said:


> Oh, OK.
> 
> I guess you live you life differently than me. Which is not really that surprising I guess.
> 
> See, some would say that 1) you find your boundary and 2) you set that boundary. I kind of think that way.
> 
> Seems to save a lot of Bull **** in my life.
> 
> I am not cool with a draped "nude" massage. "Do you have a problem only going to female MT's?"
> 
> Oh, you do. OK, I hope your life is great, see ya...
> 
> But that probably does not work for you, and I guess lots of others.
> 
> I really hope all of this works out for you...


I have never been faced with this sort of issue so I had not developed my boundary. That's what this whole post is about - to figure out my boundary. I have chosen to post here, anonymously, rather than talk with friends and family because I don't like the idea of sharing something that could effect her reputation with people we both know. The attitudes around this topic are so polar opposite and I see all sides of it to a degree. 

On one hand, people think I should grow up and stop being such a controlling Ahole for having an issue with her getting massaged from a male - even though they know what it had led to in the past. They're attitude is, if you can't trust her, asking her to switch to a female is not going to change that. Others think I'm passive for not hard lining this and dumping her if she didn't switch to a female upon command. Some see jealousy as a weakness and not be respected. Some see passivity the same way. When actually faced with this type of situation, I suspect most people regardless of what side of the fence they sit, would not be so hard line. It's easy to advise someone you don't know online what you would do when you're not actually faced with the same dilemma. 

You're not cool with your SO getting massaged by a male. I'm not either but this opinion only developed when I learned about the Chiropractor situation. Before then, I had not given it a 2nd thought. So I guess I'm somewhere in the middle.


----------



## wolverine512

manfromlamancha said:


> OK I thought I would weigh in with my tuppence worth of thinking:
> 
> Wolverine, I do not see why everyone is making a fuss out of this - you are well within your rights and it is indeed normal to be concerned about this.
> 
> This is what I understand (feel free to correct me if I am wrong about any of this):
> 
> 
> 
> Most normal men do not like other men touching their women - period. This is especially worse if their woman is naked. The only time this might be necessary is if the man is a surgeon or a special doctor (masseurs and chiros do not count). Do not let anyone give you a hard time over this.
> 
> 
> I know that chiropractors are used a lot in the USA but in many other parts of the world they are seen as questionable - osteopaths are far more qualified and useful and treat problems longer-term. When you get a chiro that is behaving badly many would not be surprised. So again you need to be careful of them.
> 
> 
> Your girlfriend has demonstrated questionable boundaries in the not too distant past - again no arguing about that. All this [email protected] about consenting adults etc is baloney. People do not go and see a medical practitioner and be open to having sex with them - that is simply not normal and would be considered bad behaviour on both their parts. Again you have every right to be concerned about this.
> 
> 
> If this happened while she was in any kind of relationship with anyone, then that is a ginormous red flag. Again you are right to question her about this.
> 
> 
> And do not let anyone tell you that a male masseur is more powerful or forceful than a female one. I can introduce to some that are 5 foot nothing that can make a marine cry! And very effective too.
> 
> 
> I agree with those that say do not beat around the bush - get straight to the point and make her understand how you feel and where you stand.
> 
> 
> Good luck.


Thanks for your input.


----------



## jlg07

Wolverine, here is my take: This clearly bothers YOU, so forget folks here saying you are too controlling or not aggressive enough and toss her out.

YOU need to live with this. TALK WITH HER. You are guessing about a lot of things until you do. She may tell you to go **** yourself if you ask her to change to a female therapist. She may go WOW, I had no idea, but yeah i can see why you are concerned -- no problem.
It's all speculation from people here who have NO IDEA about her or how she will react.

Talk with her, explain your concerns (do NOT attack her, just lay it out rationally) and see where you go from there. If this works out, it will help you both that you can have clear communications on important things and not just trivia. If NOT, at least you tried to make yourself clear and realized that this is a boundary that you don't want to have to live without in your life.


----------



## wolverine512

jlg07 said:


> Wolverine, here is my take: This clearly bothers YOU, so forget folks here saying you are too controlling or not aggressive enough and toss her out.
> 
> YOU need to live with this. TALK WITH HER. You are guessing about a lot of things until you do. She may tell you to go f*ck yourself if you ask her to change to a female therapist. She may go WOW, I had no idea, but yeah i can see why you are concerned -- no problem.
> It's all speculation from people here who have NO IDEA about her or how she will react.
> 
> Talk with her, explain your concerns (do NOT attack her, just lay it out rationally) and see where you go from there. If this works out, it will help you both that you can have clear communications on important things and not just trivia. If NOT, at least you tried to make yourself clear and realized that this is a boundary that you don't want to have to live without in your life.


I know are a lot of posts, but I have talked to her already but forgot to get some answers on questions I still have. I have confirmed that she's draped. So at the time, I felt like that was enough. She asked me when we talked if I will continue to have issues knowing now that she's draped. I said no, I don't think so. I should have asked her what it means to her if I do still have issues? So that's my next question which I plan to pose to her tonight. There are a few other detail questions that I want to ask but I may forego those (after some input here today) and really just focus on the most important question - if this continues to be an issue for me would she consider switching to a female MT? Thanks!


----------



## BluesPower

jlg07 said:


> Wolverine, here is my take: This clearly bothers YOU, so forget folks here saying you are too controlling or not aggressive enough and toss her out.
> 
> YOU need to live with this. TALK WITH HER. You are guessing about a lot of things until you do. She may tell you to go **** yourself if you ask her to change to a female therapist. She may go WOW, I had no idea, but yeah i can see why you are concerned -- no problem.
> It's all speculation from people here who have NO IDEA about her or how she will react.
> 
> Talk with her, explain your concerns (do NOT attack her, just lay it out rationally) and see where you go from there. If this works out, it will help you both that you can have clear communications on important things and not just trivia. If NOT, at least you tried to make yourself clear and realized that this is a boundary that you don't want to have to live without in your life.


He had the talk. He forgot the stuff he wanted to say for the most part. I appears that he was scared to just lay it out. 

You know what, do you live your life and set your boundaries according to what other people decide? Because if that is so, then that is just blowing in the wind. 

If it bothers him, he should have the balls to say so. People that don't speak up and stick by their boundaries get trampled. 

Your feelings should not be dependent on other people. I am not saying that you cannot have a calm discussion about it. 

But if it bothers him, he should say so. I assume he is a grown ass man? 

If you are with a woman that you could lose when you have legitimate feelings about something pretty important, the you should not be with her. 

I don't care how wonderful of a woman she is. Example, of course just my example, if my GF had an issue with getting a female MT, on top of these other things that we have seen, we would be done. 

And I assure you, she is a WONDERFUL woman in every way. But she would not be wonderful enough if this was the hill that she decided to end the relationship over...


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## wolverine512

BluesPower said:


> He had the talk. He forgot the stuff he wanted to say for the most part. I appears that he was scared to just lay it out.


OK.


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## Marduk

wolverine512 said:


> I know are a lot of posts, but I have talked to her already but forgot to get some answers on questions I still have. I have confirmed that she's draped. So at the time, I felt like that was enough. She asked me when we talked if I will continue to have issues knowing now that she's draped. I said no, I don't think so. I should have asked her what it means to her if I do still have issues? So that's my next question which I plan to pose to her tonight. There are a few other detail questions that I want to ask but I may forego those (after some input here today) and really just focus on the most important question - if this continues to be an issue for me would she consider switching to a female MT? Thanks!


If you don't trust her when she goes for a massage, why are you with her?


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## wolverine512

Marduk said:


> If you don't trust her when she goes for a massage, why are you with her?


I've explained this.


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## jlg07

BP, I get that he spoke with her, but he didn't get everything out that he needs to. HE NEEDS to do this to make sure they have good clear communications going forward. It's something they both need to learn together. To me, ongoing communications is the biggest priority in a relationship. Sorry if my point wasn't clear enough.


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## Marduk

wolverine512 said:


> I've explained this.


My point is that you have to decide here if you trust her or not. 

She's your girlfriend. You're wigged out because she had sex with a massage therapist during sessions - a big no-no. Now she's getting massages and you're wigged out and wondering if you can ask her to only get massages from women.

And I'm sitting back here as an old married guy saying "**** or get off the pot here, man."

Either you can get over her past and trust her... or you can't. No bad on you either way. But stop doing the "maybe" shuffle here and dancing around with the problem.

In, or out. She's a girlfriend. How is this going to play out over a marriage? Are you going to insist on a female physiotherapist if she needs one? A female doctor? Is that the life you want for yourself? For her?


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## wolverine512

Marduk said:


> My point is that you have to decide here if you trust her or not.
> 
> She's your girlfriend. You're wigged out because she had sex with a massage therapist during sessions - a big no-no. Now she's getting massages and you're wigged out and wondering if you can ask her to only get massages from women.
> 
> And I'm sitting back here as an old married guy saying "**** or get off the pot here, man."
> 
> Either you can get over her past and trust her... or you can't. No bad on you either way. But stop doing the "maybe" shuffle here and dancing around with the problem.
> 
> In, or out. She's a girlfriend. How is this going to play out over a marriage? Are you going to insist on a female physiotherapist if she needs one? A female doctor? Is that the life you want for yourself? For her?


I don't care about male Dr's or psychotherapists. And yes, agreed - **** of get off the pot. :smile2:


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## wolverine512

I talked to her last night. I feel a ton better. She is willing to see a female MT if I need her to. We had a very good conversation. I won't get into all the details but suffice it to say that I am done talking about this and will not be posting anything more on this topic. Thanks everyone for your input.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

wolverine512 said:


> I talked to her last night. I feel a ton better. She is willing to see a female MT if I need her to. We had a very good conversation. I won't get into all the details but suffice it to say that I am done talking about this and will not be posting anything more on this topic. Thanks everyone for your input.


Good job, good for you!

Hope things work out the way you want.


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## wolverine512

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Good job, good for you!
> 
> Hope things work out the way you want.


Thanks Ragnar!


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## re16

wolverine512 said:


> I asked her about why she manicured herself prior to the last massage and she said she cannot remember doing that.


Claiming lack of memory is a major red flag and what deceptive people do. They claim no memory, which instantly implies that your memory of this is possibly incorrect, and they divert having to answer the real question. Never accept this type of answer. If you hear it, dig in deep next time.

Also, her stating she was draped with chiro dude informs you that her being draped has nothing to do with whether or not she has a sexual experience with her masseuse.

You need to put your foot down and just tell her you are uncomfortable with her going to a male masseuse and it is not going to happen anymore.

Keep in mind, selfish people never acknowledge role reversal scenarios because it doesn't benefit them to do so. Selfish people only do things that benefit them. Don't both with talking to her about examples that start with "if roles were reversed".... its a black hole.


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## notmyjamie

wolverine512 said:


> I talked to her last night. I feel a ton better. She is willing to see a female MT if I need her to. We had a very good conversation. I won't get into all the details but suffice it to say that I am done talking about this and will not be posting anything more on this topic. Thanks everyone for your input.


So glad to hear it :smile2:


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## OnTheRocks

Who bangs their chiro, much less admits it to a current boyfriend? WTF.


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## MattMatt

OnTheRocks said:


> Who bangs their chiro, much less admits it to a current boyfriend? WTF.


That Chiropractor needs to have his licence pulled.


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## Imjustaslostasyou

wolverine512 said:


> I’m wondering what other men think about this. Prior to me and my girlfriend meeting, she started having sex with her massage therapist during her sessions. He was actually a Chiropractor. They apparently had hooked up a few times. She had been recently divorced and explained to me that she was “looking for love in all the wrong place”. After some time, she asked the Chiro about the status of their “relationship”. His response was “You were naked”. So she stopped seeing him.
> 
> Fast forward a few years and she still gets nude massages from a different male massage therapist at Massage Envy. I don’t know for sure what this means. Is she naked under a blanket and being draped or is she lying on the table naked with no draping? I had not thought to ask this question. I have just assumed that she gets draped. But then I noticed something prior to her last massage. My son happened to have a basketball game just down the street from where she gets massaged so I was going to drop her off after our first game. We were pressed for time to get to the game yet while getting ready she took the time to lady scape. Usually this is something she does when not pressed for time and I found it odd that she had to fit this in, given the little time we had to get to the game. After thinking about it, it dawned on me that she was probably lady scaping in preparation for this massage and now I’m concerned that she is fully nude (not draped) during her massage sessions.
> 
> When she had originally told me the Chiropractor story and divulged that she is nude during massages, I had only asked her why she goes nude but did not think to ask her if she is being draped or not. Her response was that she didn’t want the therapist to see her underwear. I thought this was a strange reason but I accepted it. But, I let her know that I am against her getting nude massages and insist that she wear underwear. She agreed but then we have not talked about it again so I don’t know if she is complying with my request or not. And frankly, if she’s being draped, I guess maybe it’s not that big of a deal. But if she is indeed naked on the table with no draping, then this is something I am not comfortable with and may even consider it a deal breaker, particularly given the Chiropractor incident.
> 
> We have an amazing relationship. She is super affectionate and we have sex a lot – pretty much daily, on weekends, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day. She has given me no other reason whatsoever to question her fidelity. I really love this woman but the more I think about this the more it is driving me crazy that the woman I love MAY be allowing another man to see her naked. And, she gets 2 hour massages so when she goes, I am beside myself with jealousy wondering what’s going on at her session. It’s horrible. I hate feeling this way.
> 
> I do occasionally have some minor jealousy issues, I’ll be honest. It’s only when we go out dancing and I drink too much. We have always been able to communicate about times when my jealousy has reared its ugly head so it’s not been a huge problem. But, I’m concerned if I press her on this topic she may pull out the jealousy card and I’m trying hard to work on my jealousy because I know it’s not a good thing.
> 
> So, I’m wondering how many men would be ok with their SO being totally nude in this scenario, given there is history of lines being crossed and what would you do if you found out for sure that she is still doing totally nude massages?


Put a voice recorder in her purse when she gets home check it because if she is getting massages on the inside you will hear it.


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## Lila

@Imjustaslostasyou please stop posting on inactive threads. The OP has not been online in months to update this thread. 

If you'd like to discuss you issue please start another thread.


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