# I desire to desire her....



## Istryingenough? (Jul 22, 2021)

I suck at intimacy and it's ruining my marriage. Physical relationships have never been my strong suit.....most of my pre-marriage sexual encounters were alcohol fueled and plagued with ED & PE issues. I never felt confident about myself sexually. When I met my wife that didn't matter. She was happy to put in 110% to make intimacy a fun thing in our relationship. I thought it was normal for her to always initiate and for the sexual encounter to be done when I was. Unfortunately, I never took the time to identify my own insecurities on the topic so in time they slowly eroded the intimacy in my marriage. I didn't hear my wife ask for me to stay involved. Didn't stay close when she tried to snuggle at night or on the couch and slowly stopped doing the other things that brought her any sexual confidence in us (putting my arm around her waist and pulling her close for example). We got pregnant quickly and despite her efforts to still initiate a physical relationship I continued to pull away. After our baby arrived it was a new set of excuses why I wasn't interested in sex with her. Our entire marriage has been nearly sexless. And now 7 years later I have no idea how to even try to start something. My wife is tired of begging for my affection. She's sad and clearly self-conscious that I've never been able to show her physical love. We've been to counseling and talked about our feelings on the topic a thousand times. She feels like she's a task to me as I only try to kiss her or hold her hand after she's begged for my attention and I've had to add a reminder to my phone. I truly do want to have a romantic relationship. It is my desire to desire her. I'm just not sure how. She tells me to try by saying I'm interested, talking about sex, playing dates, being flirty and playful with her, or trying anything to show I care but after every conversation I walk away paralyzed and do nothing. It's not a winning cycle for us but I don't know what to do.


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## TurnedTurtle (May 15, 2019)

I commented on your other thread, but reading this I really think you ought to consider the possibility that you might be asexual. You might not be broken (and thus not fixable), it might be just who you are.





__





The Asexual Visibility and Education Network | asexuality.org


The Asexual Visbility and Education Network hosts the world's largest online asexual community and archive of resources on asexuality



www.asexuality.org





FWIW, I am in a marriage like yours, except that I am the "allosexual" partner and my wife the one unable to express physical affection...


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

You would be surprised how many men are like this. They just don’t admit it, and never will. 

So you’re on the right path. 

Insight is golden.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Istryingenough? said:


> It's not a winning cycle for us but* I don't know what to do.*


Yes, you do and you've been told. You just don't want to. If you truly wanted a romantic relationship, you would do something - but, you don't.


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## hamphrey (Jul 14, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> You would be surprised how many men are like this. They just don’t admit it, and never will.
> 
> So you’re on the right path.
> 
> Insight is golden.


Well said


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Istryingenough? said:


> I suck at intimacy and it's ruining my marriage. Physical relationships have never been my strong suit.....most of my pre-marriage sexual encounters were alcohol fueled and plagued with ED & PE issues. I never felt confident about myself sexually. When I met my wife that didn't matter. She was happy to put in 110% to make intimacy a fun thing in our relationship. I thought it was normal for her to always initiate and for the sexual encounter to be done when I was. Unfortunately, I never took the time to identify my own insecurities on the topic so in time they slowly eroded the intimacy in my marriage. I didn't hear my wife ask for me to stay involved. Didn't stay close when she tried to snuggle at night or on the couch and slowly stopped doing the other things that brought her any sexual confidence in us (putting my arm around her waist and pulling her close for example). We got pregnant quickly and despite her efforts to still initiate a physical relationship I continued to pull away. After our baby arrived it was a new set of excuses why I wasn't interested in sex with her. Our entire marriage has been nearly sexless. And now 7 years later I have no idea how to even try to start something. My wife is tired of begging for my affection. She's sad and clearly self-conscious that I've never been able to show her physical love. We've been to counseling and talked about our feelings on the topic a thousand times. She feels like she's a task to me as I only try to kiss her or hold her hand after she's begged for my attention and I've had to add a reminder to my phone. I truly do want to have a romantic relationship. It is my desire to desire her. I'm just not sure how. She tells me to try by saying I'm interested, talking about sex, playing dates, being flirty and playful with her, or trying anything to show I care but after every conversation I walk away paralyzed and do nothing. It's not a winning cycle for us but I don't know what to do.


Ok, this puts a different spin on what you wrote in your other thread. Your wife has been doing all of the work for years and is still engaging with you. She has gone above and beyond what most spouses would. It sounds like you have deep seated problems, way beyond low T, stuff that neither viagra nor cialis can fix ( these things help the erection mechanism function but only if you are aroused mentally ), Desiring something doesn't make it just magically happen.

I know nothing about "sex counseling", but have read about it some in these forums. If you aren't aroused by a woman anxious for attention, having to add a reminder to your phone to respond, maybe you need intensive intervention from psychiatric professional who treats severe sexual dysfunctions. Is there something maybe as a child that disrupted your development? You mentioned using alcohol to function sexually before marriage. That implies you had to dull your senses to even be interested in a woman. Why?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

As I said in the other thread, find a new therapist and work through your issues. I understand now why your wife is pulling away from you. Please explain this to her and ask her to be patient, since you are working on your issues now. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if your wife thought it's too late now.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> Yes, you do and you've been told. You just don't want to. If you truly wanted a romantic relationship, you would do something - but, you don't.


Exactly this. Read this several times, put it on the fridge.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Do you have any urge for sexual satisfaction? Are you in the habit of satisfying yourself using porn and masturbation?


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Sorry for the TJ; @CatholicDad , why did you go directly to the porn card ??? Nothing OP mentioned was even tangentially related to porn that I saw.


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## Istryingenough? (Jul 22, 2021)

TurnedTurtle said:


> I commented on your other thread, but reading this I really think you ought to consider the possibility that you might be asexual. You might not be broken (and thus not fixable), it might be just who you are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I will certainly look into the asexual front more. My SO has said similar things also. How are you able to make it work with your SO if your situation is similar, albeit reversed?


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## Istryingenough? (Jul 22, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> You would be surprised how many men are like this. They just don’t admit it, and never will.
> 
> So you’re on the right path.
> 
> Insight is golden.


I appreciate the support and knowing/admitting is def the first step. But i worry that I'm not on the "right path" as I only see our relationship continuing to deteriorate and I am unable to execute a plan that gets us on the right path.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Istryingenough? said:


> I appreciate the support and knowing/admitting is def the first step. But i worry that I'm not on the "right path" as I only see our relationship continuing to deteriorate and I am unable to execute a plan that gets us on the right path.


But you are able to start little things, and you just aren't. 

Decide to and you will. That's a fact. Even the little steps in the right direction are in the right direction. 

It's a process. It's not an immediate change of circumstance for any person but in going.

Work with that. If you don't, that's on you.


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## Istryingenough? (Jul 22, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> Yes, you do and you've been told. You just don't want to. If you truly wanted a romantic relationship, you would do something - but, you don't.


My SO has said similar. And i certainly can't deny that is what is looks like. She says I try in other aspects and have been able to be a good partner in area others of our relationship but this is one where I have certainly falling off. I have tried for a bit, had an idea and done it (sometimes half a$$ed), and not done it again. I am very capable of executing something i am told but if i am asked to come up with an idea, plan something long term, etc i don't seem to have the follow through on that front. If my first or second attempt is a failure i am discouraged and stop. 

I know i need to just bear down and keeping trying - same things, new things, anything - and I can't seem to figure out how to keep on that unfortunately.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Is there a deep possibility that you don’t really want her, at all? 

That may be the root cause behind your inability to try and then follow through? ‘


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

CountryMike said:


> Sorry for the TJ; @CatholicDad , why did you go directly to the porn card ??? Nothing OP mentioned was even tangentially related to porn that I saw.


Just asking the question. Porn use is widespread and can cause performance issues in men when used habitually. I'm speculating that OP (like all men) has a relentless sexual urge- that is being expended elsewhere.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Istryingenough? said:


> this is one where I have certainly falling off. I have tried for a bit, had an idea and done it (sometimes half a$$ed), and not done it again. I am very capable of executing something i am told but if i am asked to come up with an idea, plan something long term, etc i don't seem to have the follow through on that front.


Those sentences would kill my she boner if I was a woman. To paraphrase:

_If you tell me what to do I can go through the steps and do them otherwise forget it. I can’t be bothered._

Wow... that makes me want to jump right into the sack!


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## Istryingenough? (Jul 22, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Ok, this puts a different spin on what you wrote in your other thread. Your wife has been doing all of the work for years and is still engaging with you. She has gone above and beyond what most spouses would. It sounds like you have deep seated problems, way beyond low T, stuff that neither viagra nor cialis can fix ( these things help the erection mechanism function but only if you are aroused mentally ), Desiring something doesn't make it just magically happen.
> 
> I know nothing about "sex counseling", but have read about it some in these forums. If you aren't aroused by a woman anxious for attention, having to add a reminder to your phone to respond, maybe you need intensive intervention from psychiatric professional who treats severe sexual dysfunctions. Is there something maybe as a child that disrupted your development? You mentioned using alcohol to function sexually before marriage. That implies you had to dull your senses to even be interested in a woman. Why?


My wife did put in 110% of the effort early on in our relationship, but currently she is not engaging with me on it. She still certainly desires it, brings it up in conversation, but she is "done" with being the initiator - she has been turned down, hurt, etc too often in the past and had put fairly put the onus on my to ensure we have a physical relationship. And i agree she is an amazing women with a light level of patience with me. 

I have slowly come to realized, last 12 months or so, how messed by my parents relationship is (100% zero physical relationship) and I don't want to emulate that but can't seem to avoid it. I part of my lack of desire is driven by fear to fail which is why i hoped Viagra and/or Cialis may help. Get me out of my head on the get hard front and allow me to be more in the moment with my wife. I am often very aroused by my wife - for instance a couple weeks ago the 3 of us (my wife, my daughter, and myself) we watching TV together in the evening and I was massaging my wife's back and was very hard. My wife was aware of it also. I would have loved to turned that situation in a sexual encounter but could not / did not. I reflect back on that and have excuses like "my daughter was awake" or "my wife isn't interested" etc when instead I should have just planned for something when our daughter went to sleep...but i didn't. And looking back i can't think of why - In that moment i had desire, i wanted to have sex, but i didn't do anything about it.....

On the development side I would write volumes but in short I was a virgin until 20. And then I was in college partying hard, 95+% of all my sexual encounters before my wife were either pretty drunk to near black out drunk. I clearly had a big (binge) drinking problem then and into most of my 20s. But for most of my marriage, especially since our daughter was born (6 yo) I socially drink, normally having 2-4 drinks a week (typically craft IPAs).


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## Istryingenough? (Jul 22, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> As I said in the other thread, find a new therapist and work through your issues. I understand now why your wife is pulling away from you. Please explain this to her and ask her to be patient, since you are working on your issues now. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if your wife thought it's too late now.


I agree - I am talking to a new therapist today. And on my wife thinking it's too late, i totally agree - i still think there is a sliver of hope left but that window of opportunity is very very narrow. Thank you.


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## Istryingenough? (Jul 22, 2021)

CountryMike said:


> Exactly this. Read this several times, put it on the fridge.


Will do. On my mirror. On the desk at work. In my phone. In my face to keep thinking, trying, showing love/interest


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## Istryingenough? (Jul 22, 2021)

CatholicDad said:


> Do you have any urge for sexual satisfaction? Are you in the habit of satisfying yourself using porn and masturbation?


Yes to some extent. I have been working on the PE side which requires masturbation techniques 2-3 times a week. I don't have a "desire" to watch porn though. 
Back in my single days, my need for sexual satisfaction that lead to masturbation was likely 2-3 times a month.


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## Istryingenough? (Jul 22, 2021)

CatholicDad said:


> Just asking the question. Porn use is widespread and can cause performance issues in men when used habitually. I'm speculating that OP (like all men) has a relentless sexual urge- that is being expended elsewhere.


A "relentless sexual urge" is certainly something I do not have. As i mentioned I would masturbate 2-3 times a month in my single days and it wasn't uncommon to go a month or longer without masturbation then.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I'm going to tell you something you need to ponder and eventually accept: NOT initiating sex with your wife is cruel. It is.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I don't know what sort of crackpot PE training method you're undertaking (no offense)- but every sexual release you have outside of your marriage is in some ways robbing your marriage and your wife and I certainly wouldn't do that.


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## Istryingenough? (Jul 22, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Those sentences would kill my she boner if I was a woman. To paraphrase:
> 
> _If you tell me what to do I can go through the steps and do them otherwise forget it. I can’t be bothered._
> 
> Wow... that makes me want to jump right into the sack!


Agreed. And my wife has said the same - if she has to tell me what she wants or what to do, then it's not longer special and doesn't help our situation. And i totally get and understand that. 
When i state that it wasn't referencing the sexual side - it was do the laundry, do this around the yard, etc.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

The other thing I need to say is it is also _cruel _to have sex with someone repeatedly and never satisfy them, sexually speaking. I'm sure a million posters on here can tell you all the details on how to satisfy your wife and you need to listen and do that. If you won't or can't- you should probably expect/allow your marriage to end or be annulled.

Maybe God was calling you to the priesthood or religious life? 

Sexuality is perhaps THE most fundamental aspect of marital love and even creates new life. It should be the _easy _part of marriage and NOT something you have to work and struggle at. Sex is something that sort of holds the marriage together... not rips it apart.


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## Istryingenough? (Jul 22, 2021)

CatholicDad said:


> I don't know what sort of crackpot PE training method you're undertaking (no offense)- but every sexual release you have outside of your marriage is in some ways robbing your marriage and your wife and I certainly wouldn't do that.


I appreciate all feedback and help but the PE Training is directly from multiple reliable sources, books, and direction from a therapist. The start/stop method is the starting point of all PE training and it 100% begins as a solo exercise. It does progress into SO assisted manual releases also but masturbation is the starting point. If you have any good references to alternative PE methods i am very much open to suggestions.


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## Istryingenough? (Jul 22, 2021)

CatholicDad said:


> I'm going to tell you something you need to ponder and eventually accept: NOT initiating sex with your wife is cruel. It is.


I agree.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Istryingenough? said:


> When i state that it wasn't referencing the sexual side - it was do the laundry, do this around the yard, etc.


OK. This puts a new spin on the situation. You are coasting as an adult. Relying on your wife to do all sexual initiation plus tell you what chores you need to do is putting her in the mother role and that is definitely a desire killer. She doesn't need another child to take care of. You don't seem to take any initiative on the home front - why? Why are you acting so entitled?


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## Istryingenough? (Jul 22, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> OK. This puts a new spin on the situation. You are coasting as an adult. Relying on your wife to do all sexual initiation plus tell you what chores you need to do is putting her in the mother role and that is definitely a desire killer. She doesn't need another child to take care of. You don't seem to take any initiative on the home front - why? Why are you acting so entitled?


That was the situation for sure - she has mentioend the mother role in the past for usre. I had turned that around and help around a lot around the house and am pretty equal partner on the home front now (last 2+ yrs) but previously yes i took a very long time for me to "learn to adult". I am an only child and was certainly pampered very much so (spoiled would be putting it very mildly).


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## Theborg (Apr 13, 2021)

Seems like your fear of failure is keeping you from doing anything. Maybe try building success with your wife? Try making a list of things that bring people closer, like holding hangs, hugging, etc. Then start on the first thing and make yourself do it until it no longer causes you apprehension and fear. Like every night for a week, sit with your wife in the evenings and hold her hand. Every night. Hopefully, she'll begin to reach out so that you can do so. Then...hugging. Every night before bed, give her a hug and hold it until she ends it. Every night. Again, hopefully, she'll begin to expect and look forward to this. Do not stop doing the things as you take on others. It may take a while to work up to everything, but I believe that if your wife sees you taking serious efforts, she may be patient enough to work through this with you.


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## Istryingenough? (Jul 22, 2021)

Theborg said:


> Seems like your fear of failure is keeping you from doing anything. Maybe try building success with your wife? Try making a list of things that bring people closer, like holding hangs, hugging, etc. Then start on the first thing and make yourself do it until it no longer causes you apprehension and fear. Like every night for a week, sit with your wife in the evenings and hold her hand. Every night. Hopefully, she'll begin to reach out so that you can do so. Then...hugging. Every night before bed, give her a hug and hold it until she ends it. Every night. Again, hopefully, she'll begin to expect and look forward to this. Do not stop doing the things as you take on others. It may take a while to work up to everything, but I believe that if your wife sees you taking serious efforts, she may be patient enough to work through this with you.


Seems like your fear of failure is keeping you from doing anything - this is 100% True and, IMO, my biggest issue that i can not overcome!

Maybe try building success with your wife? - this is what i need to work harder on. Consistency is something thathas come up in the past. So the "every night" comment is something I need to take to heart and just do.


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## Theborg (Apr 13, 2021)

Istryingenough? said:


> Seems like your fear of failure is keeping you from doing anything - this is 100% True and, IMO, my biggest issue that i can not overcome!
> 
> Maybe try building success with your wife? - this is what i need to work harder on. Consistency is something thathas come up in the past. So the "every night" comment is something I need to take to heart and just do.


Yes, look how proud you now are of keeping up your end of the housework/childcare. It feels good to do good. And I think if you stay consistent, every day, your wife will appreciate you which will feel great and lead you to want to do more. You eat every day for the good of your body. Love your wife the same way and what starts as habit can become skill!!


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## Istryingenough? (Jul 22, 2021)

Theborg said:


> Yes, look how proud you now are of keeping up your end of the housework/childcare. It feels good to do good. And I think if you stay consistent, every day, your wife will appreciate you which will feel great and lead you to want to do more. You eat every day for the good of your body. Love your wife the same way and what starts as habit can become skill!!


Thank you again for the reply and support.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

My final point is having PE should in NO way prevent you from initiating and even satisfying your wife. Heck, we all have “PE” from time to time. Frankly, my wife is often turned on by my “PE” sometimes because it is clear to her that I insanely desire her. Regardless, PE or not you should still take time to satisfy/caress/kiss/love/cuddle her. You can still “make love” to someone even if you have PE. Love making isn’t all about your penis- to be frank. I think if you stay “engaged” with her the penis will come back around too. The idea is to just not quit because YOUR body says you’re done... better to quit when HER body says you’re done. Hope that makes sense.

The PE problem is way secondary to your marriage problem.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Wow that is a brutally honest opening post. Have you revealed that to your partner? I’m talking about as honestly as you just did? If not, she needs to hear it. It will require that type of brutal honesty to prevent her from falling for an interloper. I’d guess that she is very ripe for the taking. If you don’t want to lose your family, you have to show through actions that she’s special and that she means the world to you.

I must say that I admire how your wife has stuck by you but sadly it appears that the self sacrifice can only last but so long without a real effort on your part. I imagine that she’s not looking for you to turn into some porn star but she needs more effort on your part and for more of an emotional connection. I’m not trying to be mean but are you on the spectrum?


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## Istryingenough? (Jul 22, 2021)

jsmart said:


> Wow that is a brutally honest opening post. Have you revealed that to your partner? I’m talking about as honestly as you just did? If not, she needs to hear it. It will require that type of brutal honesty to prevent her from falling for an interloper. I’d guess that she is very ripe for the taking. If you don’t want to lose your family, you have to show through actions that she’s special and that she means the world to you.
> 
> I must say that I admire how your wife has stuck by you but sadly it appears that the self sacrifice can only last but so long without a real effort on your part. I imagine that she’s not looking for you to turn into some porn star but she needs more effort on your part and for more of an emotional connection. I’m not trying to be mean but are you on the spectrum?


Yes she is fully aware and we've had many a heart to heart and she fully aware. This is not an internet post and not something i haven't' shared with my wife. 

I agree she isn't looking for me to be a porn star, just more intimacy and a physical connection. 

No, never diagnosed as such and don't believe anything in my past would lead to an "on the spectrum" diagnosis. I'm well educated (Engineering BS, ME, MBA), good well paying job (Aerospace), many friends and no inability to make friends or awkwardness social situation, etc so I don't believe i would be on the spectrum. That said my wife and I have discussed a potential diagnosis of Asperger syndrome as i can see some alignment with that but there but again a key one doesn't fit is "difficulty with social interactions".


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

Maybe you just haven't yet figured out what dynamics really turn you on. 

I would spend some time watching and reading all kinds of erotic stories / porn. Straight, gay, domination, feet, anal, anything and everything. Leave no stone unturned. See if something finally hits for you. And if it does, be honest with yourself about what you like and find a way to integrate it into the sex life with your wife.


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## umbluu (Jan 24, 2020)

Dear Istryingenough?

I would suggest two areas to look at, both psychological rather than technical/medical.

First, this “I desire to have desire” sounds as something straight from the writings of David Schnarch. I personally prefer “Passionate Marriage”, but I know of some people who prefer the same ideas recast as “four points of balance TM”  (“Intimacy and Desire”)

The second idea - do you have addictive tendencies? I am not talking about alcohol or fentanyl or porn addictions. I am talking about cycling through several more socially acceptable behaviors, for example work, reading/listening/watching videos on your favorite topic (including your favorite self-improvement topic), watching TV / Netflix, physical exercise, shopping, internet forums, etc. In this scenario, being able to switch from one behavior to another obscures addictive character of the behaviors, because one can convince oneself and others that one can relatively easily stop each particular behavior (by switching to another one). Traditional view of addiction focuses on symptoms, and on one’s inability to stop one particular behavior. Another view of addiction focuses on psychological problems that make someone prone to various addictive behaviors. How is that potentially relevant to you? Assuming that you have this floating-focus addiction (I admit to projecting my personal experience onto you here.), is it the “addiction of the day” that interferes with your desire for sex? Either by leaving less time and energy for sex, or by making your current addictive behavior more interesting and attractive than sex, at a given moment? So you sincerely feel that "in general" you like sex and would like to have more of it, but somehow cannot find enough motivation at any given moment? If any of this rings the bell, you may want to google Gabor Mate. (He does not focus on sex in particular.)

In my opinion, Schnarch’s and Mate’s views actually overlap, Schnarch just likes to conceptualize results of childhood trauma as “low differentiation”…

Regards


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Seems obvious to me that if you had non-PIV ways you could satisfy your wife that it would really take the pressure off of your ED and PE concerns. all these performance fears are really just in your head.. lots of women can’t be satisfied via PIV alone.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I'm asking this as a sincere and relevant question and not trying to be a jerk or anything - are you on the autism spectrum or have anything like Asperger's Syndrome or anything? Any personality disorders?

This sounds like it is more than just a PE issue or of not being a sexual dynamo but rather it sounds like you may have some challenges connecting on an interpersonal level in general.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

And in regards to the physical disconnect you are experiencing with your wife, I think one of the first steps you should take is to decentralise your penis from your sexuality.

What I mean by that is one of the biggest failures of men in the sexual arena is that their entire focus of sexuality becomes their penis and PIV. There for when their penis doesn't work, or when their penis is done with the encounter, they go back to watching TV or playing their video games. 

Take the focus off of your penis. Take the focus off of strictly PIV as being "sex."

You have already mentioned the sensuality and arousal of giving her a back rub. Expand on that. Take the emphasis off of your penis and off of PIV and explore other areas of touch and communication and expression. 

Holding hands and touching each others fingers can be very erotic and arousing and sensuous. spooning and laying together in bed can be very bonding and comforting. 

A baby oil footrub can be the highlight of her whole day. Just walking up and holding each other in the kitchen for 15 seconds can change someone's whole outlook on life. 

The reason I asked if you were on the spectrum above is because if you are, everything I have mentioned in this post will sound completely alien to you and you may need a higher level of assistance and guidance from an actual professional.


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