# If your dealing with a Walk Away Spouse



## Thumper

I'm gonna give you some info that I've found from reading thru at least 15 different marriage help websites about a WAS.

For the first 3-4 months, NOTHING you do or say it gonna make a bit of difference. The spouse will spew, rewrite, try to justify, and generally not care much about the sitch. Anything you do those first few months towards the marriage, even if you think its helping, is NOT. In fact, your just making your work harder and you'll be helping the spouse form excuses about not listening to their desire for time and space. Detaching is almost impossible, but probably the most important thing you can do for yourself, cause "fixing it" just isn't gonna happen.

I really think the first few months is a time that you need to really focus on yourself/family. There will come a time shortly after that a window will open of self doubt in the spouse. If you've been working on yourself, the spouse will be challenging themselves during this window. I think this is the stage the WAS starts to consider more the idea of breaking up the family, wondering if they can make it without you, or the slight twinkle that maybe its worth saving.

This is a key stage, and obviously a stage that can really make or break the future. There are no guarntees either way of course. But its the point that I really think you can help yourself or hurt yourself in their eyes. If you've been doing the work, more doubt might creep in, and if not, they will detach further. Its still not over either way, but at this point you've created more work, or made it more difficult for them to end the M. The patience that you've showed before is nothing like the ride your gonna be taking now. This is the also the stage that I think "Make yourself the person your spouse would be crazy to leave" really starts hitting home.

Your work is still just getting started thou, cause at this point the doubt might be there, but trust comes into play. Trust that the changes your making are permanent. This stage can take a LONG time depending on your own unique sitchs and how much trouble the marriage was in before BD. Its over the next few months that the changes we make must be real, and not an attempt to just placate, and are really scrutinized. Now only time, effort, patience and positivity are your friends, you still have absolutely NO control over whats gonna happen. From what I've read about the differences is a MLC and a WAS. MLC can take years to get thru before you might even see positive steps, if you see them at all. And really has nothing to do with you.

The WAS is almost the opposite, its all about you, and the damage of your marriage. You ARE the reason they're willing to walk away. It also seems to have a much shorter cycle than dealing with a MLC spouse. A WAS was considering BD months or years BEFORE you got word, so for their part, maybe half the work is already done in their eyes. Can you change it around, sure. You know the mistakes/issues. This is where the labeling doesn't matter. You have to go about your DB'n the same. Cause those changes are for you, and if they help the marriage GREAT, but don't expect them to fix it. That's not up to you.

Out of all the websites i'd read thru that I could find WAS listed. There was only about 125 specific stories, and I know by no means that means much as some don't label, some don't know, and some don't care about putting it into a category. But I kept track of what progress was listed. There was roughly a 25% success rate, a 45% failure rate, and a 30% rate of limbo. Even those numbers are scewed. To be a success, you had to be long term piecing, for failure the spouse was with another person long term or divorced already. Those situations don't really mean crap as we all know piecing can fail still, and we know that some divorced or in other relationships can still come back.

But what amazed me is more about the first 3 months and the second 3 months. Like I said above, those first 3 months theres just nothing you can do to make much of a diffence (although you can do an incredible amount of damage) your aren't getting them back in that window no matter what you do. The second 3 months is the ground work for the rest of the process, hopefully you've been doing the work, learned some patience, and are in detachment mode. Its still unlikely the spouse comes home (or theres a failure at piecing), but during this 2nd 3 months the work better be well under way on your own part. After this 3 months the work is still just getting started, I think this is the stage the LBS doubt starts to creep in. (5-7 months)

If some positives are gathered from that 2nd 3 months, the LBS is more willing to give it more time. But if not, the LBS starts to wonder if they can do it, or why there doing it. 

By no means is any of this scientific, proof, denial, or something to use as a standard. Some of the assumptions are VERY general to say the least. And each situation is unique. The damage varies from marriage to marriage, mitigating circumstances are also varibles.

What it all comes down to..........is you have to DB, and you have to do it for yourself. Cause whether your marriage makes it or not, changes have to be made. Those changes are going to effect the rest of your life, your interactions with friends and family, and your future relationship (albeit with your spouse or someone new). You can worry all you want about your current situation, but until those changes are made, and made permanent NOTHING is gonna make a difference.

Myself, im currently sitting at about 5.5 months, the doubt and the positivity (in my mind) both have their ways at times in my head. I have to beat both back. I have to constantly remember that the only control I have, is myself. That im going to focus on being a better me/parent/friend, even if I wasn't lacking in some of those departments before. I can always be a better me. I have to remember that i'm only half at fault as to why i'm here, but theres not much I can do or change regarding the other half.

That if im making my changes, im also becoming comfortable with myself that I can make it either way. That even if it doesn't make it, im gonna be one HECK of a spouse for someone else. I need to get to the point that the loss would not be mine, but my spouses. That only I can take care of myself, and I cant count on anyone else to do it for me.

When it comes down to it, it is ALL about me.


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## Thound

Good info. I dont know if my wife is a WAW or not. 10 years ago I gof the ilybnilwy speech. She has been emotionly detached since then. Things are getting somw what better. When all this hit we seriously discussed divorce and I begged her to stay. Now I wished I had not begged. Not because I want her to be gone, but for her to know that I would be ok either way. I came off as needy instead of strong and confident. I dont think she would have left and maybe we would have been further along.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK

As for success rates, I'd lump limbo in with failure. My marriage would probably fall into the limbo category on your scale. No love for years but still together. But it is about as much of a failure as you can get. My wife hasn't loved me for a long, long time and never will again.

And I question 25% success rate. I don't think they ever come back.

The most important part of your post is stressing to make changes for you, not her. You don't want to continue being that person that would drive away their soul-mate. 

A conversation on walk-aways. How refreshing. We beat every other topic to death but this one just lingers.


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## MrK

I don't understand why this is not topic #1 on this forum. Most of the other threads relate to problems caused when a wife walks away (OK, let's be honest here - wives walk). Why won't we talk about it? I tried starting a thread, but I was crucified before the thread died. At least this one is suffering a slow, painless death.


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## A Bit Much

As a wife it would take a lot for me to get to this point. That said...
I can't say for certain that any changes my husband made would get me to reconsider loving him again. It would take me physically separating for some time before I would even look his way and trust what I saw. That's how I'm built. When I get fed up and done, that's it.


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## MrK

A Bit Much said:


> As a wife it would take a lot for me to get to this point. That said...
> I can't say for certain that any changes my husband made would get me to reconsider loving him again. It would take me physically separating for some time before I would even look his way and trust what I saw. That's how I'm built. When I get fed up and done, that's it.


My wife is done. Never coming back. She just won't leave me.

Think about it. When couples break up, they rarely get back together. But if the walk-away stays? While their spouse is reinforcing those negatives day after day?

Ain't happening. And SO MANY wives emotionally check out of marriages. So many...


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## A Bit Much

MrK said:


> My wife is done. Never coming back. She just won't leave me.
> 
> Think about it. When couples break up, they rarely get back together. But if the walk-away stays? While their spouse is reinforcing those negatives day after day?
> 
> Ain't happening. And SO MANY wives emotionally check out of marriages. So many...


Yeah, I couldn't do that. Walk away and stay in the same house. That's not really walking away in my view, it's torturing yourself and and him. What's the point in that? I think I'd develop cancer from the repressed anger or something.

If I emotionally checked out, my body wouldn't be far behind. I would have to to move on.


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## A Bit Much

MrK, since you know what you're dealing with, why do you stay in the marriage? Why not free yourself?


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## c101

At some point, some relationships are susceptible to outside interference. . . and the next phase of destruction is staying for one's own benefit, not because you actually want to be there. This phase is what they call "emotionally checking out." I think we are all better served to accept the truth instead of just believing "they checked out" The truth is they're only here at that point because they are now serving themselves at you and your relationship's expense.


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## A Bit Much

c101 said:


> At some point, some relationships are susceptible to outside interference. . . and the next phase of destruction is staying for one's own benefit, not because you actually want to be there. This phase is what they call "emotionally checking out." I think we are all better served to accept the truth instead of just believing "they checked out" *The truth is they're only here at that point because they are now serving themselves at you and your relationship's expense.*


:iagree:

It's financial if you ask me. Someone is getting free rent and utilities.

Oh they're also getting insurance and a pension when their spouse finally keels over. Maybe for some that's worth hanging around for.


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## c101

A Bit Much said:


> :iagree:
> 
> It's financial if you ask me. Someone is getting free rent and utilities.


 :iagree: Or someone is getting free housecleaning, childcare and professional services with this suspicious half in/half out orientation some misidentify as "emotionally checking out."


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## Thumper

The ideas in this post come directly from the writings of two books.


Divorce Busters and Divorce Remedy by by Michele Weiner-Davis.

As this a great website, I also use it in conjunction with divorcebusting.com Another valuable tool when all seems lost.


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## Battleworn

I seriously will never understand how the WAS and even infidelity seem to be scripted. It's strange. 

I have been messing up apparently. I'm just not sure if I need to be doing NC or light conversation? It's confusing as mess.


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## Hopefull363

Dealing with WAS myself. He checked out emotionally years ago. I've been working hard at trying to get the marriage back on track for 2 years. Sadly it can't be done by one person. He has to want to check back in. Been married for 15 years, I finally told him to leave a week ago Sat. Trying to just survive now. I don't think they realize the destruction and devastation they leave in their wake. Battleworn I've been messing up too. Couldn't help letting the emotions out. I'm going to start working the 180 now. To heal myself. Look into it.


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## Blonde

> "Make yourself the person your spouse would be crazy to leave"
> ...
> Even if it doesn't make it, im gonna be one HECK of a spouse for someone else.


Thumper,

Kudos for looking in the mirror and attempting to grow and mature instead of having a self-pity-party over what a poor poor victim you are of mean WAS rejection. 

:smthumbup:


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## Blonde

A Bit Much said:


> :iagree:
> 
> It's financial if you ask me. Someone is getting free rent and utilities.
> 
> Oh they're also getting insurance and a pension when their spouse finally keels over. Maybe for some that's worth hanging around for.


That's quite a mercenary/utilitarian assumption :scratchhead:

I stayed because I thought it would be better for the children to have us both under one roof. 
Quite concerned about what they will be exposed to when I WA


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## A Bit Much

Blonde said:


> That's quite a mercenary/utilitarian assumption :scratchhead:
> 
> I stayed because I thought it would be better for the children to have us both under one roof.
> Quite concerned about what they will be exposed to when I WA


The children grow up and move away at some point. There are people that are living this way after the fact. What is the reason for staying at that point if its not financial?


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## A Bit Much

Blonde it's interesting you say you worry about what the children would be exposed to if you weren't there full time. Have they not been exposed to you and your husbands distance from one another? If not, how do you keep your emotional detachment hidden/secret when they're interacting with the two of you? My mother and father were really bad at keeping the fact that my father had affairs and the fighting and ill feelings between them. They didn't talk about it (at first), but it showed in how they behaved toward one another. By the time I was a sophmore in high school, the fighting was almost daily.


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## Hopefull363

A Bit Much, 

I know you were talking to Blondie, but you hit the nail on the head in my situation. I didn't want our children to see the distance between us and think that this is a healthy marriage..Even though I am still very much in love with him, he left years ago emotionally. The trigger had to be pulled eventually and it was pulled by me. That is one of my reasons.


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## northernlights

A bit much, there are things far worse for a child to be exposed to than bad marriages.


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## devotion

Thumper said:


> That if im making my changes, im also becoming comfortable with myself that I can make it either way. That even if it doesn't make it, im gonna be one HECK of a spouse for someone else. I need to get to the point that the loss would not be mine, but my spouses. That only I can take care of myself, and I cant count on anyone else to do it for me.
> 
> When it comes down to it, it is ALL about me.


I really, really like this attitude since I dealt with a WAS (I even sent her an article about it right before we formally divorced and she agreed she was, and how it was all my fault, blah, blah, blah). Without kids and basically different social circles (which made it a lot easier) I don't hear much about people who know us 'before' and 'after' but the few that do say I've become much better and she's become much worse. 

This was all part of the 180 I started right before the end; it was too late to save the marriage at that point, but it made me a better person for sure. The WAS checks out, blames the other person, and when the scapegoat is gone, its blaringly obvious that the problems were not just the other person. The 180 person knows that they have things to fix, and FIXES them. Because it's THEIR loss!


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## A Bit Much

northernlights said:


> A bit much, there are things far worse for a child to be exposed to than bad marriages.


Well sure there are. That's a given... we live in a horrible world don't we? 

Stay in your bad marriage, do what you feel you have to do, it's your life, your decision. Just don't think that what you're doing doesn't affect your kids in a negative way. I grew up in it myself.

I happen to be a person who didn't think it was healthy for my kids (or myself) to live that way, so I did something about it.


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## Blonde

A Bit Much,

We each have our own journeys and have to make our decisions based on the complexities of our own situation. 

Perhaps I hung onto hope that things could change for way too long?

My husband has been abusive to the children at times and I would have been scared for him to have custody of them without me there to protect them.

Now that they are older (the minor children are 11,13, and 16) and have learned by watching me how to stand up to him on their own behalf and on behalf of one another, I'm not as worried.

I have three married children and a 4th with a SO and they have all picked carefully and well IMO and a huge part of that was wanting to avoid the problems they observed between me and H (which we did not even attempt to hide, when there was discord it was no secret)

Now, after 30 years married/first and only marriage, I have decided to WA. He could come on here and call himself the victim of a WAS and I expect he will be milking that for all its worth picking up women who will feel sorry for his poor poor persecutedness....

He never once took a long hard look in the mirror. Never. Once.

I like Thumper's post because it is all about looking in the mirror and improving oneself which is a very very good goal. :smthumbup:


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## northernlights

Oh Blonde, I didn't realize you'd chosen to end things. I'm sorry. 

Here's to better times to come.


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## Blonde

Thx NL. 

True confessions @ week and a half ago tipped the scale past the point of no return.

He's on the road 3-4 nights/week and he's flirting it up in bars and even sober (=uptick in unacceptable behavior. Before I assumed I could trust him sober. Now the trust is gone gone gone...)

Goodbye. I'll see you in court.


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## A Bit Much

Blonde said:


> A Bit Much,
> 
> We each have our own journeys and have to make our decisions based on the complexities of our own situation.
> 
> Perhaps I hung onto hope that things could change for way too long?
> 
> My husband has been abusive to the children at times and I would have been scared for him to have custody of them without me there to protect them.
> 
> Now that they are older (the minor children are 11,13, and 16) and have learned by watching me how to stand up to him on their own behalf and on behalf of one another, I'm not as worried.
> 
> I have three married children and a 4th with a SO and they have all picked carefully and well IMO and a huge part of that was wanting to avoid the problems they observed between me and H (which we did not even attempt to hide, when there was discord it was no secret)
> 
> Now, after 30 years married/first and only marriage, I have decided to WA. He could come on here and call himself the victim of a WAS and I expect he will be milking that for all its worth picking up women who will feel sorry for his poor poor persecutedness....
> 
> He never once took a long hard look in the mirror. Never. Once.
> 
> I like Thumper's post because it is all about looking in the mirror and improving oneself which is a very very good goal. :smthumbup:


I understand. You did what you thought you needed to for your kids. So did I. 

In WA, is it only emotional or have you moved out on your own? That's what I wanted to know. As I mentioned before, I happen to believe that a lot of people who WA emotionally and stay do it for financial reasons... they are dependent on their spouse for financial support. They were/are SAHM's with little or no income of their own to support them or the kids. After the kids are grown, this continues because the lifestyle isn't something they want to give up.

I don't know if this is what's going on with you, I'm just stating my opinion from some observations I've made with others in the WAS mindset.


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## A Bit Much

Oh.. NVM Blonde. I see you're taking him to court.


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## Hopefull363

I'm sorry Blondie. I just threw my emotionally absent spouse out a week ago Saturday. Like you I spent years trying because of that spark of hope. No cheating that I know of he's just been emotionally gone for years. It's h3ll living with someone you love that doesn't love you. I just saw a counselor today. She  says I'm grieving. I think I'm still in the denial part. Because even with him gone I still have hope. How do you move on to the next stage? I feel like I'm going to stay in this stage forever and it's killing me.


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## Blonde

((((((Hugs))))))), Hopeful

I still hope too. My 13 yos says to me "oh dad, he;ll NEVER stop drinking. How many chances have you given him? Fifty?"

I said, "The marriage could still work if I see RADICAL brokenness and transformation and he prepays for a year of counseling at $100/week to get to the bottom of what drives his behavior and fix it..."

Son says "Dad? No way, no how, ain't gonna happen. guess we're moving"

On grieving, my faith brings me great comfort. Was reading one of my favorites Psalm 63 today.


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## Thound

Blondie, I would not consider you a waw. If your husband doesn't know you have had enough, he is either blind or stupid. When my wife disengaged from me it was abrupt, and without any warning of any kind. I think you have tried to warn him, and I know you have gave him plenty of chances. I truly hope you find peace, because you deserve it.


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## Hopefull363

Yes Blondie what Thound said. If anything he's a walk away husband. He won't work on the marriage. Same with my husband. He's a walk away husband. He just wanted to exist the way it was. I wanted to work on the marriage. He just wants to stay emotionally paralyzed. Well we can only pray.


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## Hopefull363

And Thumper where have you been? You started this thread come back. I enjoy your wisdom.


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## HeartbrokenW

When my ex asked for the divorce, there was nothing I could do to convince him to work on the issues of our 13 yr marriage. 3 weeks after he initially asked, I filed. If he wanted a divorce, he was gonna get one. He couldn't afford it, and I wasn't going to hang in limbo. It was the best thing I could have done.. I drew the line in the sand that saved me from his financial disaster that he created afterward. 5 months after he asked for the divorce, I had refinanced the house, separated finances and was legally divorced. He walked away, but I made it official. Hanging in limbo sucks. You're not married, not divorced. Its now been 10 months (5 months officially divorced) and I admit I feel good. I'm so glad to be clear of his antics. No more indecisiveness. No more wondering if he was bringing a paycheck home. No more wondering if he was gonna blow the money needed for bills. 

My advice? If they want to leave, let them. Don't mess around.


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## noas55

Dealing with WAW right now. My only saving grace so far is we have been living together for 7 weeks at home. Rough 1st week, but the communication has made the difference. She is more passionate and loving to me although she will not say she loves me after her ILYBNILWY speech. Where it goes after I move out next week...who knows? At least I have already begun rebuilding myself. I pray she gets to enjoy it after this is over...one way or the either


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## Hopefull363

noas55,

I feel for you. The ILYBNILWY speech cuts like a knife. I'm sure you were told to look for another man. If you found evidence of one then follow the advise given. If not. And that speech isn't always because of another person. It can be from emotional shut down as well. Look into the 180 to heal yourself. In my case there isn't another person. I received that speech 2 years ago and it still hurts immensely. That's because I'm still living in limbo land. Maybe see a therapist too. Someone who can help you through the stages of grieving. I'm sorry for your pain.


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## ArmyofJuan

A high percentage of these include an exit affair, it’s hard to walk out from a marriage without some kind of crutch. The good news is exit affairs have a short shelf life and sometime after they fail the WS comes crawling back with a new appreciation of their marriage. That’s pretty much what happened with me. Every time I hear about a WAS the first thing I say if look for evidence of an affair. 9 or of 10 times there is one even though you’d never think in a millions years they would (like I did). 

The thing to take away is to not pursue and emotionally detach. Many WAS don’t fully realize the effect of losing their spouse until their spouse shows that they will move on without them. If there’s a chance of reconciliation it will be from the WAS coming back on their own, not by what the LBS does. Even trying to be the best spouse you can be will be seen as “too little too late”. Always improve yourself but do it for you, not them. NC is always the best bet when possible, you can’t screw up with you are not there to begin with.


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## Craig49

Just read this thread, and it is very interesting to read the information provided. Sad too I will admit.
I am currently going through the same issues at this point, but I am not the type just to walk out.
I got the "I love you speech but" several years ago just before she had an affair. After the affair I completely shut down, and withdrew emotionaly. Kept all the resentment to myself, and it has just been eating away at my inner core.
Over the years I would say under my breath I am done, over and over, but never doing anything about it. I stayed for the kids, not a regret at this point, but the question has been poping up over the last couple of years "what about me"
Emotionaly checking out has so many effects, and over a period of time I have found that, its hard to get out of the hole or rut you are in, and you just exist.
The cards are on the table with my spouse, my hurt, and my anger about all this. I cannot completely blame her for all the issues, but she played a role.
I think most of us just dont know how to forge ahead, beit finances, being scared of the unknown, what will people think, etc.

Its been a journey of self discovery for me, why do i just plug along. Trust is a big issue, and we could work on things, but it just seems dead to me, the love, is gone, and I feel i have no room in my sealed heart to even think about moving forward in my relationship.
The unknown and fear has been holding me back, and finding the courage to do something about it is tough.
I cant just walk away..........I can leave but both people involved need to be in the know.
Being upfront on how you feel, but if I do leave, she needs the decency to know why, and not be blindsided.

Sorry for being long winded.

PS, my older brother walked away from his wife, left a sticky pad note, and I find that very cold, and not respectful in anyway. A cowardly way to end a marriage.


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## VeryHurt

Thumper and Others:

This thread has helped me a lot. 

Briefly, my STBXH told me that he stopped loving me as far back as 2001. Had an affair in 2009 and another one with the same woman about 4 months ago.

Between 2009-2013 I lived in limbo and it was/is the worse pain in the owrld. He detached emotionally and physically completely in 2009 and just emotionally abused me: Belittled me, dismissed me, told me I was fat, showed no attention and withheld sex. 

I kept thinking that things would get better. During these past 4 years, he left many times sometimes it was for 2-3 weeks, sometimes it was for 8-9 weeks.

This is the first time I am actually sticking to the 180 and I am doing it for ME. My 30 year marriage is DEAD. There is NO HOPE.

It took me 4 painful and foolish years to come to this. 
Still the pain in awful. 
The loss is painful. 
The rejection is painful.

I did all I could to make things work but as someone said, nothing I did or did not do would work because he was gone "emotionally" a very long time ago. 

Once they leave emotionally, you are toast. I am a prime example of nearly everything that was said in this tread.

I am so hurt that I cannot find one single fond memory of the past 30 years to take me into old age.

The only memories that I have are lies, infidelity and emotional abuse.

Very Hurt


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## VeryHurt

Thumper said:


> I'm gonna give you some info that I've found from reading thru at least 15 different marriage help websites about a WAS.
> 
> For the first 3-4 months, NOTHING you do or say it gonna make a bit of difference. The spouse will spew, rewrite, try to justify, and generally not care much about the sitch. Anything you do those first few months towards the marriage, even if you think its helping, is NOT. In fact, your just making your work harder and you'll be helping the spouse form excuses about not listening to their desire for time and space. Detaching is almost impossible, but probably the most important thing you can do for yourself, cause "fixing it" just isn't gonna happen.
> 
> I really think the first few months is a time that you need to really focus on yourself/family. There will come a time shortly after that a window will open of self doubt in the spouse. If you've been working on yourself, the spouse will be challenging themselves during this window. I think this is the stage the WAS starts to consider more the idea of breaking up the family, wondering if they can make it without you, or the slight twinkle that maybe its worth saving.
> 
> This is a key stage, and obviously a stage that can really make or break the future. There are no guarntees either way of course. But its the point that I really think you can help yourself or hurt yourself in their eyes. If you've been doing the work, more doubt might creep in, and if not, they will detach further. Its still not over either way, but at this point you've created more work, or made it more difficult for them to end the M. The patience that you've showed before is nothing like the ride your gonna be taking now. This is the also the stage that I think "Make yourself the person your spouse would be crazy to leave" really starts hitting home.
> 
> Your work is still just getting started thou, cause at this point the doubt might be there, but trust comes into play. Trust that the changes your making are permanent. This stage can take a LONG time depending on your own unique sitchs and how much trouble the marriage was in before BD. Its over the next few months that the changes we make must be real, and not an attempt to just placate, and are really scrutinized. Now only time, effort, patience and positivity are your friends, you still have absolutely NO control over whats gonna happen. From what I've read about the differences is a MLC and a WAS. MLC can take years to get thru before you might even see positive steps, if you see them at all. And really has nothing to do with you.
> 
> The WAS is almost the opposite, its all about you, and the damage of your marriage. You ARE the reason they're willing to walk away. It also seems to have a much shorter cycle than dealing with a MLC spouse. A WAS was considering BD months or years BEFORE you got word, so for their part, maybe half the work is already done in their eyes. Can you change it around, sure. You know the mistakes/issues. This is where the labeling doesn't matter. You have to go about your DB'n the same. Cause those changes are for you, and if they help the marriage GREAT, but don't expect them to fix it. That's not up to you.
> 
> Out of all the websites i'd read thru that I could find WAS listed. There was only about 125 specific stories, and I know by no means that means much as some don't label, some don't know, and some don't care about putting it into a category. But I kept track of what progress was listed. There was roughly a 25% success rate, a 45% failure rate, and a 30% rate of limbo. Even those numbers are scewed. To be a success, you had to be long term piecing, for failure the spouse was with another person long term or divorced already. Those situations don't really mean crap as we all know piecing can fail still, and we know that some divorced or in other relationships can still come back.
> 
> But what amazed me is more about the first 3 months and the second 3 months. Like I said above, those first 3 months theres just nothing you can do to make much of a diffence (although you can do an incredible amount of damage) your aren't getting them back in that window no matter what you do. The second 3 months is the ground work for the rest of the process, hopefully you've been doing the work, learned some patience, and are in detachment mode. Its still unlikely the spouse comes home (or theres a failure at piecing), but during this 2nd 3 months the work better be well under way on your own part. After this 3 months the work is still just getting started, I think this is the stage the LBS doubt starts to creep in. (5-7 months)
> 
> If some positives are gathered from that 2nd 3 months, the LBS is more willing to give it more time. But if not, the LBS starts to wonder if they can do it, or why there doing it.
> 
> By no means is any of this scientific, proof, denial, or something to use as a standard. Some of the assumptions are VERY general to say the least. And each situation is unique. The damage varies from marriage to marriage, mitigating circumstances are also varibles.
> 
> What it all comes down to..........is you have to DB, and you have to do it for yourself. Cause whether your marriage makes it or not, changes have to be made. Those changes are going to effect the rest of your life, your interactions with friends and family, and your future relationship (albeit with your spouse or someone new). You can worry all you want about your current situation, but until those changes are made, and made permanent NOTHING is gonna make a difference.
> 
> Myself, im currently sitting at about 5.5 months, the doubt and the positivity (in my mind) both have their ways at times in my head. I have to beat both back. I have to constantly remember that the only control I have, is myself. That im going to focus on being a better me/parent/friend, even if I wasn't lacking in some of those departments before. I can always be a better me. I have to remember that i'm only half at fault as to why i'm here, but theres not much I can do or change regarding the other half.
> 
> That if im making my changes, im also becoming comfortable with myself that I can make it either way. That even if it doesn't make it, im gonna be one HECK of a spouse for someone else. I need to get to the point that the loss would not be mine, but my spouses. That only I can take care of myself, and I cant count on anyone else to do it for me.
> 
> When it comes down to it, it is ALL about me.


What is MLC and DB?
Thank you.


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## Thumper

MLC is a mid life crisis, basically the difference is in a MLC, its not the marriage that's the problems per say, its the person in the marriage snapping that they missed out on something in life. It can happen in the best marraiges with no warning.

A WAS, walk away spouse, is walking away cause its their spouse's damage that CAUSED the marriage problems. The WAS, usually has spent months if not years coming to the conclusion they'll be happier without their spouse.

In a MLC, if your willing to wait it out, has a much higher success rate of reconciliation, but beware it can take 1-5 years. A WAS window is much shorter/smaller, cause there wasn't a "snap", it had already had a large timeframe the damage was building up. Thus the WAS marriage has a very low success rate of reconciliation.

The spouse left behind, or LBS, left behind spouse, in a WAS marriage is usually shocked, even thou the warning signs had/have been obvious for a while, just not addressed.

DB = Divorce Busters, a book my Michele Weirner-Davis, and is a proven strat to increase your chances, theres never a guarantee, at a reconciliation in either a MLC or WAS marriage. The objective is to work on yourself and commit to changes in your lifestyle, that A. Make you a stronger more independent person.
B. Help address issues that caused the marriage problems.
C. Help you detach emotionally from the sitch, and not pressure it.
D. Give you the tools at better communication, understanding, forgiveness.

Basically in summary, you cant fix your marriage unless you address yourself first. Whether the marriage makes it or not, which actually isn't even up to you, you come away a better, stronger person, that's fixed a lot about your own short comings in the marriage.

After reading a few comments, people need to understand, that usually theres no hope of reconciliation until you've finally decided you've had enough, and its YOU that decides its enough. At this point, the WAS and sometimes even a MLC (although rare) might finally realize they're making a mistake and try to come back. Often times its too late, the LBS has moved on themselves. Theres are a ton of success stories using the book, but it cant be used at a tactic to trick the spouse, your spouse knows you better than you think they do. It has to be a genuine feeling that its no longer worth fighting for, and that you did everything you could to make it work, but its over.

Heres a summary of the 37 rules you must live by: 

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.

21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes


This list, knows as Sandi's rules, are key to starting the process, I recommend the book. You will also not get better advice, its very good here too, than on the books website: 

Open Forums - DivorceBusting.com

Also, if your in the situation of either WAS or MLC, I highly recommend getting into Independent Counseling (IC), and the above website has a phone coaching program that's specialized for your own situation.
Its not free, but its roughly the same price as Marriage Counseling (MC), but imo 10x more effective.


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