# Shocked, Destroyed and Lost



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Hi  I have been lurking for a while now looking for someone with a very similar situation so I didn't have to bother everyone with a post, but I haven't seen anything quite like it, so I really would appreciate some insight... I will try to make this short(er) without leaving out to much necessary detail...

I have been with my husband for 16 years, and married for 10 - together since I was 19/him 24. No children. We dated a long time before marriage and that seemed wise, and I thought we were doing well. We never fight, agree easily on most everything, no money problems, share hobbies and interests, and so forth. He has done a lot for me and I am a pleaser type person and prided myself on being the perfect wife, so to speak. I completely 100% trusted him and never, ever thought anything was wrong. I was a bit unfulfilled sexually, but that started from the very beginning. He was never highly sexual and I usually had to initiate, and many times was turned down and cried myself to sleep. However, everything else was so good that I tried not to let it bother me. In hindsight I didn't feel truly treasured or wanted, but it was easy and comfortable and I had lots of trust in him (notice the past tense), lots of distractions with my hobbies and work, as well as a good looking future that was stable and secure - which we had both worked towards.

About 18 months ago I was harmlessly looking at our cell bill and noticed a HUGE amount of texts with a number I wasn't familiar with. I was extremely shocked and through a little digging I found out that it was another woman. My husband has a job where he works 24 hour shifts (and had been working A LOT of overtime - for real - the past two years), so he is gone every other night. I guess we grew apart a bit and didn't know it, in hindsight. The records showed texts and pictures sent late at night on the days he worked. I didn't have to question what was being sent... after a bit more research before confronting him I found out this person was about 12 years younger and QUITE overweight and unattractive (like 300lb+). I am 5'9" and fit/work out and a healthy weight - size 8-10, with a natural DD chest and consider myself attractive enough - and my husband is quite into fitness himself, so I didn't know what to think about this??? The name was vaguely familiar, a person I felt like he had mentioned long ago, someone who worked near him, however he'd said she was "really fat" and never really mentioned her again. I also found the number from the cell bill hidden in his cell phone under a bogus name.

I confronted husband by calling at work, and he first said it was just a friend he talked to at work sometimes and remember, he had mentioned her a long while ago, but then when I said I didn't buy the just friends crap given the crazy number of texts (talking all day and half the night even days before I confronted him - although not every day and sometimes a few days spanned but sometimes texting her at 12am before bed and then 6am when he woke up... - didn't do that to me....). There were rarely phone calls, though, at least on our bill. Who knows what he was doing at work or on work email. Only a few, made early morning when he got of work (distrubing). He said he would talk when he got home. It sucked because I had a job interview the next day and I was so distraught I had to cancel it and call in to work sick.

When he arrived home he said he wanted to come clean, that he had been talking to this woman for about 4 YEARS (so half our marriage of 8 years at that time), he claimed 2 of it was fairly harmless but then it crossed into the realm of sexual on her prompting. Apparently she stroked his ego big time - no offense but she would never get a guy like this in the real world, you'd think - looks wise... They did send naked photos back and forth and had ellicit conversations. He never sent naked photos or sexted with me...

I was absolutely devastated and shocked, as I had NO idea this was going on. I had read flirty emails between him and some other old friends or what not on FB, but it was in the open and didn't seem to be so threatening (I did not do the same however with any guys). Only when we first got together 16 years ago and dated long distance were there a few incidents of iffy behavior that maybe now I should have believed... The only slight sign of this had been that he more recently (about 6-9 months prior to my discovery) was having trouble climaxing during sex. He blamed it on recent workouts / doing cardio.. and I believed it but still deep down it hurt my feelings. Now I wonder if it was because he was having sex with this other woman?? He has now said it was due to guilt... He said it was strictly a texting relationship, that she had "trapped him in" by threatening to tell me if he quit ??????, and they never met up or had sex, however, it turns out she lives about 10 minutes from our house. I just don't believe, despite her size/looks, that it was purely texting over a 4 year span. I said I wanted to have him take a lie detector test if he hadn't slept with her then, and he said no because he would probably fail anyway. No the answer I was looking for. That just makes me more suspicious. It honestly doesn't matter if he did or didn't at this point... I was begging for attention and sex and to find out he was, for years, giving it to someone else, feels like more than I can get past.

My whole life was ripped out from under me, all of my stability and security gone. It has been the absolute worst pain of my life. I don't make even half what he does and I have a farm and lots of expenses that I couldn't handle on my own, so now I feel like if I leave I will lose everything I have worked so hard to achieve due to no fault of my own, and live basically poor again due to nothing I've done. Of course now he's Mr. Nice Guy and doing all the things I asked for for years prior to this, but that makes me even madder to know that he was capable and it took this to bring it out... I just feel like I am less willing than ever to meet whatever needs he wasn't having met due to my pain, fear and bitterness. So what's the point.

I was really pretty darn happy and now am miserable - I have lost so much respect, trust and interest in him knowing he could look me in the face and be doing this behind my back, that there is no way he truly was in love or really cared about me. And I was so good and so nice. It seems like most guys would love to have this plus a wife that begs for sex many times a week...

Since I have completely lost all feelings for him in a romantic way, we have not had sex in nearly 18 months. I really have a complex about it now. I was a virgin when I met him so to me sex was really special. Now it feels like it's all tarnished and ruined and I have ZERO interest in him that way. We did it a few times right afterward before the pain set in and I wanted to work it out. But now, I am completely repulsed by any attempt of affection from him. I don't want to open up and get hurt again since I don't trust, so I stay every emotionally withdrawn. It's hard because to protect myself I haven't told many people, in case we reconciled, so that they would not have any preconceived notions about us in the future. Most of our good friends don't even know... he is being patient about the sex but at this point I want to have closeness and have sex, just not with him. He is very physically attractive, but emtionally the candle has long gone out. I feel like by now I should be moving forward, but feel further away than ever. 

I have gotten to the point where now I feel guilty that I haven't been able to get past it and in my heart of hearts feel like it's over for me. I hate that he too is living without sex during the prime of his life also (I guess he is, who knows) and I really feel like maybe since he wasn't really married for 4 years while I was, it's time for me to not be married anymore either. Maybe I should be single... Over the course of becoming detatched from him I have become closer to a few folks and think of dating them and how that would be. Of course he still wants to work it out, but I just can't get over 4 years of lying to my face and betrayal. What else is someone like that capable of? I have that feeling of not knowing him anymore / stranger. I have so much good that I do appreciate that it's hard to want to give up the rest of my life outside of him, but I also can't seem to forgive him and don't really want to, and I can't have it without him so I feel trapped. Neither of us can live super well without the other and he has put a lot in our home and facility so I still have compassion that I don't want him to live poorly either... 

So do I stay or do we call it quits? I am so very torn because I know if I could just "get over it" that my future would be secure IF this never happened again, but what if it did? I am scared to risk that also. I am tired of being in turmoil.  Thanks for any advice or insight. Holy cow, sorry this was really long


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Ouch, sorry for the spot you are in.

After 18-months, do you know what you want? I would think you would have some inclination by now.

It doesn't sound like you are convinced that you have all of the information. You probably don't. Did you have him write a timeline for you?

Demand a polygraph, check them out in your area. Pay attention to his reaction and prepare for a parking lot confession.

Maybe having all of the information would help you to make a decision and move forward.

My guess is that it was sexual, looks aside.

Has he changed his habits? Does he show remorse through his actions?

No kids... you are still young. I know what I would do.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Sorry you here !! Unfortunately this is a decision that you will need to make about staying or going ?? If a close friend of yours told you the same story what would be your advice to them ?? I would recommend taking things slowly and not making a life changing decision when you are distraught and upset about things that are happening. Is he willing to go to Marriage Counseling ? is he willing to look at the EA as just as damaging as a PA ? emotionally it is since you mentioned how long it has been going on. Is he willing to have no contact with the other party ?? The time spent with the other party was time that he denied you is he willing to give that up ?? If not then there is your answer. Although his emotional affair is 100 percent on him I would let him tell you otherwise he is the person that choose to go outside of the marriage to connect emotionally with someone , It is not your fault that he did this. 

He should be willing to do some heavy lifting at this time and I would consider going to MC as well and 2 wrongs do not make a right it is your choice to go outside of the marriage but this will not help the damage that has already been caused. 

Take care of yourself 
and Good Luck


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Thanks for your kind advice. I had written a huge post (shocker) but it just got lost so I am trying to make another shorter one... 

He agreed immediately to cease all contact with the other person and I guess he has (no way to know if he still was contacting her from his work), and we did go to MC at first fairly soon after the incident, but the therapist said I was so angry and hurt that we needed to wait a while - is that common? She said she couldn't help us until I could be less emotional and bitter. He seems to be truly remorseful, but I can't help but look at it as what I thought we had was worth the risk of losing.  He is doing a lot of the things now that I had been asking for for years and years, which only makes me madder that he was capable and only now is he trying... when I was trying the whole time.

I don't know if doing the polygraph would even matter at this point. It was the deceit in general and the length of time, four years, that I can't get past. If someone can do this to someone they supposedly love, what else are they capable of? How can I ever trust again - I know that I can't or it'll never be the same...

I just have such a fear of opening back up and getting closer again because I don't trust him with my feelings/emotions or my security anymore since all of that has been destroyed. I have mourned the sudden death of our relationship and now too scared to try and rebuild, to take that risk that it happens again when I am older and not as able to start over.

I have 100% ZERO attraction or romantic feelings for him, even though he is a textbook good looking guy... and when I think about being intimate I am repulsed. If he makes any type of advance it immediately makes me incredibly anxious. I don't want to live in a sexless marriage because to me sex was very important (and I wasn't satisfied even then but lived with it without too much complaint because everything else was good)... and I feel like sometimes he is trying in vain and it makes me guilty even though it's not my fault/doing this has happened.

I also am angry about and afraid of losing everything I have due to no fault of my own. We have a large horse farm (my dream which he did help me build) and I can't afford it without him. I run a nationally successful horse business with a good friend. I can't afford the farm without him, since he makes over twice what I make... so I feel trapped. I will lose all I have worked for in the farm, my beloved horses, my side business - have a regular good job but don't make a ton - my cars that I also love (hobby too)... and basically live hand to mouth with nothing, all due to something I didn't do. It just seems like an agonizing choice and so unfair. Or, I stay for the material things and never have sex again or risk having this whole thing happen all over again because I don't think the root problem even is/was fixed... I just don't know what to do. I am 35 and no kids, so still young enough to find someone else, just scared to try again and have this happen at 45 and it be too late. Thanks for listening...


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

FS not sure on what the therapist advised as far as MC, however take this time to work on yourself maybe IC to help you deal with some of your questions and worries. Then after awhile reapproach MC if yall are still together. You have a right to your feelings which you described above. MAybe make a pro/con list of staying or going and the consequences of either decision. Again I would do this in individual therapy for the time being if he is sincere then he will wait for you afterall this is his consequence for going outside the marriage. 

Maybe start exercising such as walking or riding a bike etc something that will help with stress and emotions and help you feel better about yourself.

Good Luck


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I am biased toward cheaters. My first wife pulled the rug out from under me, but not nearly as bad as what happened to you. My point is, the trust is gone & in most cases the cheatee will always hold a degree of resentment & mistrust & who wants to live like that. You'll wonder what he is doing if he is working late, checking his phone, spying on him etc. Since you've lost all romantic feelings for him & you're an attractive 35 year old, I would cut my losses & move on. There are plenty of men who would love someone like you. If you can live with him as room mates for stability & no hurt feelings, then that is your other option.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Hi, 
Im sorry you are here. I am very,very much in same place as you but, almost 25 yrs older. I could have almost written your words, your fears, your trapment, and especially your anger. 

I'm sending you a link that is so worth reading, this road is just the beginning... 

~sammy

Read more at: Infidelity causes severe trauma, but it's not your fault
Copyright © www.healingafteraffiars-bloomington.info


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Thank you, everyone, for your input and insight. It's amazing how many people are going through these things. Everyone thinks we are the perfect happy couple - it's hard to put on the charade but also if we did work it out, it would be nice for people not to have known. 

Thanks, Sammy, for the link. I will definitely read it.

I waffle back and forth, but kind of feel like in my heart of hearts, it's over for me. I don't see it ever being good again, even like it was - and this is after 18 months already. If I could just flip the forgiveness and trust switches back on, it would be easy. But I am too scared.  

I feel like I don't want to waste more of either of our time since life is short, but I also don't want to look back and think why on earth did I give all of that up (as far as my material things and animals go). But I don't want to live my entire life in fear, distrust, suspicion and without a true loving bond...


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Faded: Sorry you are here, but you came to the right place!

Your H owes you a plethora of explanations for his sordid actions against you ~keeping in mind that while his confessions are one thing, your believing them are entirely another!

I'd also recommend your getting into MC with him ~ and if he refuses to go, then get yourself into IC immediately.

Lastly, get yourself medically checked out for the presence of STD's.

And if your H is adverse to any of this, then I would make an appointment with a good family attorney to explore exactly what your legal rights are!

I wish you well, my dear!*


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

It does seem like your MC had very little training in infidelity. If she had experience in infidelity she could have helped both of you through the process. Bitterness and anger are all common things to work through in MC after an A.

I am not convince your WH did not have sex with the OW, no matter how fat she is. My one BIL is an athelete, his wife is morbidly obese. they love each other and have four children together. I would wager that they did the deed.

Don't ever compare yourself with the OW or try to figure this all out, because that road will lead to your husband just being selfish.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I also do not believe they did not have any physical contact. If you can see someone sometimes while you're at work, and also they happen to live about 10 minutes from where we do, I don't see how after four years the sexual tension from all the texting and sending pictures (both ways, he admitted) wouldn't eventually be too tempting, despite the unattractiveness. When I found this girl's MySpace page, I didn't know whether to be insulted or not?? Maybe he is a closet chubby chaser, who knows. Bottom line is that she was enamored with him and stroked his ego, and though good looking, he has low self esteem due to his terrible mother and so I guess she made him feel so good that he couldn't let it go.  He said he knew it would be discovered and had guilt about it, and here I was oblivious and trucking along, without any idea of the sh*t storm that was about to hit me. 

I know that I am "better" so to speak - not being pompous or anything, just saying comparatively - much better looks, better job, better education, etc, but I also know that you can't help who you love and on paper sometimes it doesn't make sense. He said they never said "I love you" and he didn't care about her, and he was "trapped" in the texting relationship... which seems ridiculous - he could have simply made something up like saying this chick was stalking him and if she told me I probably would not have believed her at the time and he probably would have gotten off easy. But he clearly didn't want it to stop. He claims it was a "mistake" - a one night stand is a mistake perhaps, but four years is a conscious decision and not a mistake.

When I was sure it was an inappropriate relationship I first called her, and got no answer. Then I texted her and asked if there was anything I should know between her and my husband. No response. So I knew... people encouraged me to confront her but I said no matter what she said I wouldn't believe her anyway - she could lie and say nothing happened to save his ass or she could say all sorts of things to burn him. She was single with no kids. When I asked him how he ended it, he said he called her from work and told her. So I have no idea if they still actually talk or not, and maybe just got sneakier.

When I asked him to take a polygraph test to prove he didn't sleep with her and he said "No, because I'd just fail anyway because I'd be too nervous".... that wasn't the answer I was looking for. They can tell between nerves and lies. He said, well it's not considered accurate enough to be admissable in court... well I think it would be accurate enough for me to get the info I needed. If I really was innocent, I would say sure, I'll take one right now!! Maybe there is more he wouldn't want me to find out, like other people or whatever. Just was even more unsettling considering I was already totally blindsided. Him cheating NEVER crossed my mind and I thought he was happy. Also his first wife (married very young when in the service) cheated on him, so I figured given how he knew it felt that he would never do it to someone. At least he says it was her that cheated... of course, I am suspcious of everything I have ever been told, now. 

He also said that he "expected to be forgiven" and that has always stuck with me.

Granted, he has definitely been really trying now, but that only makes me think before he was certainly focusing his attentions elsewhere for lord knows how long. I just hate that it took this to finally have him express that I was of value to him, now at a time when I no longer want it. Then people say since he's trying I should give him a chance, but I just can't take that leap of faith and feel the damage is just too much.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Forget the poly, it is typically a waste of money.

He is not showing remorse. He would not say he expects to be forgiven if he is remorseful nor would he say no to a poly. He would do most of what you ask if he was remorseful.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

I am 23 years out from my wife's affair and there are still trust issues and pain.

How I look at it is, I know my wife to be a decent person, and I understand she had a period where she did some bad things but that is not typical of her. Of course, I have 23 years post affair to conclude that, hand what if I had been wrong?

The other thing is, the character traits that made her vulnerable to an affair are still there. I don't think it will happen again, but it is not inconceivable.

Applying my experiences to you, I would say you need to make a judgment about your husbands character, and whether what happened is atypical, and if you are going to try and reconcile you need to find ways to rebuild trust and intimate feelings, not just wait for them to fix themselves.

In my case there were children...if not for them I think we would have divorced. If you go that route it would be reasonable. Just don't assume you are going to find someone perfect. Perfect people don't exist.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Material things are important to be sure. But IMO they don't compare to tranquility, peace of mind, and happiness.

Since it's been over 18 months and you've not only lost confidence but genuine affection for this man, I think you know what needs to be done.

What would you do if you won the lottery tomorrow?

Well, act as if you will.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

If you liquidate the business, maybe you can bring in a new majority owner and you can stay active in it as a part owner. You can keep your favorite animals. 

What kind of riding do you do, Western, dressage, jumping?

At 35 you will have a shot at happiness with someone new. If when you split, your husband pursues you, you can date and start anew. You can tell him that.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Happiness with someone new....

I guess whatever you do, I would advise you to make your financial position as solid as possible. Even if you stay, you should aspire to be in a position where you could walk if you chose. Because the truth is, if your partner every decides to walk, the decision is out of your hands.....

That aside, I have shared experiences with my wife but I can share new ones with someone new. We have kids and grandkids, but if you don't have kids that's not a consideration. So to me the notion of some use by date is pretty silly. 35, 45, 55....as long as you are breathing you have a future.

So for goodness sake don't make a decision based on fear.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

fadedsmile said:


> He was never highly sexual and I usually had to initiate, and many times was turned down and cried myself to sleep.


This, especially as it happened from the beginning, was a huge red flag in terms of the health of the relationship and incredibly painful for you. 


> However, everything else was so good that I tried not to let it bother me. In hindsight I didn't feel truly treasured or wanted, but it was easy and comfortable.


Exactly. It seems to have been a 'comfortable' partnership without the most important ingredients of a healthy relationship which is why you didn't feel treasured and wanted.


> He sometimes texting her at 12am before bed and then 6am when he woke up. . . he had been talking to this woman for about 4 YEARS. . . He claimed 2 of it was fairly harmless but then it crossed into the realm of sexual on her prompting. They did send naked photos back and forth and had illicit conversations.


Before bed and first thing in the morning? So he was well capable of giving a woman attention and making her feel wanted. 'Into the realm of sexual on *her* prompting' - they always blame it on someone else. And what does he mean by 'fairly harmless'. Texting another woman secretly is never 'harmless'. 
I don't believe it never went PA. 


> I was begging for attention and sex and to find out he was, for years, giving it to someone else.


You haven't even got happy years to look back on. You have never felt the way a partner should in a normal healthy marriage, nor have you had the intimacy you craved. Another woman was getting it. 

It will be hard for you to leave as you have been with him all your adult life. As far as your material possessions go, is it really worth keeping them and giving up your peace of mind and the chance of a healthy relationship with someone else and embarking on the long and difficult path of R with a man like this who won't even take a poly? You also mentioned there were 'iffy' things very early on in your relationship.

You are only 35 - in your prime. 


> It feels like more than I can get past.


I would feel the same. Personally I don't think he deserves even one more hour of your time.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

********** - you really hit some nails on the head and confirmed what I was thinking exactly... 

When I met him I was a virgin and was very proud and cautious with my virginity. He was far more experienced than me, thought I waited 5 months to make the move. From the beginning I always wanted more sex than him and wondered why he wasn't as interested as I was. I chalked it up to that's just how he was, but it always seemed like all or most other guys were far more into sex. This always kind of hurt my feelings - he just said he was tired or stressed. Just seemed odd that if I would approach him to be cute while he was doing something, he'd be like "not now, I'm folding laundry!".  It was from the very get-go however, so it's not like anything really changed. And most of our experiences were 5-minute wham bams. Not very fulfilling I guess because we weren't truly deeply emotionally connected, in hindsight. It was kinda just sex it seems. I had a hard time being able to relax and never understood why. I always felt like there had to be something more. Maybe he felt the same way, and that lead to the weakness and the affair.

But, like you said everything else was comfortable and a good partnership, same goals, good finanances and it's not like he doesn't treat me decently. We never argue (and not by avoidance, by not needing to), it's peaceful, he does a lot of nice things for me - especially now mind you lol - and had a good future planned. There is no abuse at all, emotion or physical in any way, except that I am unfulfilled sexually which has been a constant for 16 years.

He really does seem to have changed - admitting that he was focused on making money and so forth and being a tough guy, not showing emotions because that means you're "weak" (plus a bad mother and rough job enviroment). I get that, and was accepting all that, until like ********** said, he has proved that he is fully capable of giving the attention, just not with me. That's what hurts the worst is knowing he can and was doing what I was asking for but with someone else, and for so long.

It IS hard because everything is pleasant still, and he does seem remorseful and seems to be trying, but only just now does it feel like it probably should have felt for the past 16 years. But I am scared of it and refuse to accept it or get any closer. So I am not sure why suddenly he is showing me now, aside from fear of losing me - he claims he didn't know how to show it or was being tough and lazy, or was it that he was just focused on other people the whole time? I mean it's not like he acted like he didn't care at all, I mean he's built two entire farms for me, by hand, lots and lots of work... gone along with my dreams and so forth. So I didn't think he was a bad guy until all this came up. Then I start to wonder about everything. 

I am not at all jealous and very, very trusting but he severely took advantage of that. He is not jealous either, which was very nice and I never felt burdened or stressed, and that's good because I am very independent, but also I did not take advantage of it. Then people tell me you should feel jealous or else you don't care. Is that true? 

Right this minute I feel like I want to be separated and do my own thing for a while and see how it is - but I don't know how to work that, and I have this strong feeling like I don't want people to know what's going on with us. I guess that's unavoidable - partly because I am embarassed about it and partly because if we reconciled I don't want any preconceived notions. However, in the long run, I worry about finances, retirement and all that which we had laid out perfectly. So it puts my entire future in limbo, as well as my horses, my side horse business, etc. That's what I'm most afraid of. If I won the lottery, I do think my choice might be more clear. I don't want this to be all about money because in the end, it's not the most important. But I don't want to look back and say man I left that good looking guy who was nice to me (other that the affair...) where I had a stable future and good lifestyle and good income to be alone, poor and unsure what will happen. That's why I am scared to push a separation, even though in my heart of hearts I know I can't live this way and don't see any desire returning to sleep with him... so at some point it's unfair to him I guess to keep dragging it out when he could go find someone. 

I mean what if he really has "changed" and all it would take is for me to open up and try? I just don't know if I want to give another chance I guess. He has said he would give me another chance.. for what that's worth lol. I think he does kind of know how much this has hurt me but I still don't think he could grasp it totally. Even now 18 months later I still have greiving moments and am sad most of the time, when I used to be the happiest person around and people called me "sunshine" as a nickname. I fake it a lot and act happy but when I see other couples hugging and looking happy I'm now so envious when I never felt that way before.

It's hard because his parents live next door to us on our farm... so a separation of him living there would not be enough (plus he hates his mom fairly much lol). And finances are such that he can't really go get an apartment, so I am not sure what to do. He is just getting permits to build a new garage and all sorts of stuff, so I really feel trapped. I don't know why I still care about his feelings since he didn't care about mine but it's just my nature I guess. Do unto others... So my conundrum is this - do I stay and try to let my guard down and get close again and see if any feelings come back and really try to fix it, or do I try to push some sort of separation or ??? He likes to act like nothing is wrong and is moving forward like we are staying together, even though he can surely tell I am struggling. We got to dinner and don't talk in the car the whole way there and back (30 min each way, we live far out), etc.  I just am too afraid to try and reconnect in any way...


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

To add to my above post, I guess I mainly am trying to figure out what to do next. I am sick of being in limbo and crying 1-2 times a week about it for nearing 2 years - and I've calmed down from my blind pissed-off-ness and hurt enough to feel like I can make a better decision. Almost no one knows, so it's hard to bounce ideas off people with hardly anyone to talk to. But how do you know you're making the right one?? People think we are the model couple and would be totally shocked if we split up.

I even feel like we can be just friends (which is kinda what we are now, only he wants more and I don't)... but I don't have an ounce of desire for anything further even after this long. Does that mean it's over and done? Feels like it - and I just don't know how it can continue like this for much longer. Either I need an open marriage so I can receive love  or I guess it will have to end?? I have suggested a number of options to him a few months ago and he said to give it more time and try harder. The thing is, I did try for the past 16 years. I kinda feel like I'm done trying when he is just ready to start.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Go with your gut. If you feel you need to be separated, that's what you need to do. 18 months is a long time to work on reconciliation. 

The one and only thing to worry about is you and him. Who cares if people will be shocked? They aren't in your house or in your marriage. If you read enough threads, you'll quickly learn there is no "right choice." There is only a choice and then you decide later if it was right.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Your WH has had a girlfriend for at least four years of your marriage. The fact of her overweight doesn't rule out sex for them & I would definitely assume a PA. It's been four years of intimacy for the two of them. And he says he would flunk a polygraph, so there is at least that and probably more. And I would bet that they are still together, just taking it underground.

So, if it were me & I felt the way you are feeling, I would just divorce the guy. So many years of lies, a poor act at remorse, and probably still lying. What kind of marriage is that to save?

Why continue the charade?


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

The only reason I guess I am continuing is because I like the rest of my life. I have a great farm, great house, 25 horses, 6 "cool" cars, comfortable finances with retirement planned out already and good lifestyle with no worries - and then the huge elephant in the room. Everything else is great, and we don't fight. That's why it's so hard to go the route of ending it, plus it seems he really wants to work on it so I hate to disappoint him - even though that may seem silly... still think of others even when maybe I shouldn't...

I am so angry that now to seek happiness I have to potentially give up all of this stuff that I, too, have worked for by profiting on investment horses and pouring the money into our facility, which now I will lose if I choose to break this off. We have a good bit of equity so we could both profit from the sale, but it just feels so unfair because I don't want to sell. Why should I have to lose when I have done nothing wrong?? But, without the income I can't afford the house (to buy hime out) and whole property on my own. With a room mate perhaps could make the payments, but also, he may not want to give up the house and place either that he's worked really hard on. But if anyone has to lose, it shouldn't be me. In my opinion... or I stay and have all this stuff, but live without love or fulfillment and risk my own affair eventually or another of his. Just so hard. 

He says I am overlooking all the good he has done and everything he has done right. I would rather have nothing and not have had to go through this pain...


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Read Alte Dame's post again!
You don't want to disappoint him?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

fadedsmile said:


> The only reason I guess I am continuing is because I like the rest of my life. I have a great farm, great house, 25 horses, 6 "cool" cars, comfortable finances with retirement planned out already and good lifestyle with no worries - and then the huge elephant in the room. Everything else is great, and we don't fight. That's why it's so hard to go the route of ending it,


And perhaps he feels the same way. Maybe that's why he's been cake-eating for years. He's got this great life in so many ways and a girlfriend on the side to fulfill 'other needs.'

This is, of course, up to you. If you decide that the lifestyle is the deciding factor, then you should probably do your best to resign yourself to your doubt and lack of trust. His expressions of remorse seem weak and I would bet that he is not even truly NC with her, so unless you two can turn this around into a true reconciliation, you are both opting for material comfort over a true marriage. People do this all the time. As long as you know that it is your choice, then no harm, no foul, I suppose.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Maybe he feels that way too, I mean I never felt like he was that into me sexually - by the way I almost always, from the beginning, had to initate... so it wasn't like he was being denied - he could have had it every day if he wanted, so I don't understand the cake-eating unless I am just terrible in bed... and that's really all I know because he is my first. I feel like I want to experience it with someone else now whereas before I never did because I was so devoted. I would voice it to my friends at times, male and female, and they would all say he was insane or even gay. He would claim he was tired or stressed out as a reason not to be interested. I get hit on all the time (not to be vain just saying) and have always resisted opportunities, so all of this also makes it hurt even worse.

So yes, I guess my decision comes down to love vs lifestyle, because it looks like I can't have both - and I am SO angry that I will have to lose everything because of nothing I did, and I tried so hard and was so "good" and this is the thanks I get.


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## calmwinds (Dec 10, 2012)

Chapter two? Anyone?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Sigh...


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

What's Chapter Two? lol I haven't finished the first one yet it seems. Ugh.

Dame, I feel the same way. Just so unfair. Makes one quite bitter.

Thanks for the opinions. It's really helped - I have basically no one to talk to, and of course people who know him don't want to see us split up so they say stay, but I don't feel like I can, at least as it is now.

Do open marriages ever work? LOL I mean he's been cake eating and I would probably be ok as roommates as long as I could too... haha That is not my nature but I guess a lot of things are going to change anyway. I just don't think I can pick the material things over having a real relationship, as least as far as I don't think I can sleep with him ever again at least at this current time and it's been almost 20 months now. Still no interest and instant repulsion...


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## Row Jimmy (Apr 15, 2013)

Hey FS

I can understand your dilemma of not wanting to give up your lifestyle and comfortable financial situation and horses and such/

I am somewhat in the same boat although it's not about cheating. 

I have been told that a time will come when the pain of staying in a relationship will overcome the pain of leaving and you'll clearly know it when that occurs. 

Until that time you may need to ride it out a bit longer. During that time you could try IC or MC to work on yourself and your marriage issues. You could date your husband and try to re-spark the fire that has gone out. 

There is a future out there with or without him but nothing is easy about this stuff. 

I dont see an open marriage working for many people and wouldn't recommend that. 

The first steps are the hardest ones.... 

Best of luck


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Row Jimmy said:


> Hey FS
> 
> I can understand your dilemma of not wanting to give up your lifestyle and comfortable financial situation and horses and such/
> 
> ...


I cant believe this post came when it did. I am so much in the same place as OP as far as lifestyle & a cheater. The thoughts of losing that lifestyle & future can be very upsetting and weight heavily on the decision to R. 

But the words, "the pain of staying a relationship will over come the pain of leaving and you'll clearly know" was some of the best advise I have ever heard. 

Op maybe you dont have to lose, maybe there is another way. 

~ sammy


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Row Jimmy said:


> I have been told that a time will come when the pain of staying in a relationship will overcome the pain of leaving and you'll clearly know it when that occurs.


One of the most thought provoking things I have read on TAM. 

I would personably say a time *may* come and you will know *if* it occurs.

In my own case things get better over time, and the pain is less than it was. Not totally gone, but better. But that is the luck of the draw.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

My main fear is of it happening again. I was doing pretty much everything I could the first time for 16 years, so if I wasn't meeting his needs or if he has a personality flaw, I see the risk of it recurring eventually as high. I guess that is a legit fear for anyone in this situation... of course he swears it won't, but who honestly is going to tell you anything but that? lol I am certainly not willing to try any harder, espeically now, so I don't want to get comfortable again and then 5-10 years down the road this happens all over...

I am just so angry for having to go through this when my life was basically fine and I was 90% happy with it (a lot more than many can say, I know, and I was very thankful for it) and now I my whole future is in jeopardy due to no fault of my own. I just find that fact, and the fact that he decieved me for four years - although two of which he said were not sexually charged, who knows, still was an EA at least - unforgivable. How do people get over things like this? I consider myself to be very forgiving and I am having such a hard time with it. The person I trusted the most in the world has hurt me the worst of anyone. I don't see how I can get past it, and this is almost two years later - I feel no better.

I just feel like you don't make a bet with something you're not a least a little willing to lose - like there is no way I would wager the pink slip to my favorite car in a drag race, because I am not willing to take that chance of losing it, it means too much to me... and so I feel like to start something like this means you're willing to lose what you have if it doesn't go your way, and that, too, is a huge hurt. I feel like you can't possibly be "in love" with someone and have the capacity for this, so it kinda shows you where you stand with that person.

I just don't want to waste any more of my life than I have to and don't want to go through this again. I just know it'll never be the same and I am not sure I want to live with the taint of this forever.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

fadedsmile said:


> Hi  I have been lurking for a while now looking for someone with a very similar situation so I didn't have to bother everyone with a post, but I haven't seen anything quite like it, so I really would appreciate some insight... I will try to make this short(er) without leaving out to much necessary detail...
> 
> I have been with my husband for 16 years, and married for 10 - together since I was 19/him 24. No children. We dated a long time before marriage and that seemed wise, and I thought we were doing well. We never fight, agree easily on most everything, no money problems, share hobbies and interests, and so forth. He has done a lot for me and I am a pleaser type person and prided myself on being the perfect wife, so to speak. I completely 100% trusted him and never, ever thought anything was wrong. I was a bit unfulfilled sexually, but that started from the very beginning. He was never highly sexual and I usually had to initiate, and many times was turned down and cried myself to sleep. However, everything else was so good that I tried not to let it bother me. In hindsight I didn't feel truly treasured or wanted, but it was easy and comfortable and I had lots of trust in him (notice the past tense), lots of distractions with my hobbies and work, as well as a good looking future that was stable and secure - which we had both worked towards.
> 
> ...


Why stay? Too hard to leave? Financials? Why stay? Leave already. Seriously. Faster you leave, the sooner you start feeling better, or you find out what about him is worth it to you when you are not with him, and that will give you a jumping off point to start to R, assuming he is honest with everything and you become satisfied with his "new found" honesty.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

The one thing keeping you there is your farm, your business...

if it were me (and Im not saying you havent done this already) but I would look at ALL my options (i have no idea how to run a horse farm)...look at other investors, a silent partner, other ways to make money with all your land...downsize the horse farm part and use the land for other things...I dont know but I would spend some time looking at all my financial options to see how much of that farm you can salvage and keep

you might find something acceptable and your last obstacle for happiness would be gone...then you can truly decide to R or D


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Well, I kind of had a talk with him last night. We never ever have really truly talked about separating or anything, because I am not one to make empty threats and also I was giving it time to make sure that's what I really wanted and wasn't letting raging emotions do the talking.

He said he hoped in the grand scheme of things I would look back and think this was only a blip on the radar... well crying 1-2 times a week for 20 months does not constitute a blip for me... he still maintains he never was interested in phsyical contact with this OW, that it was just them talking via text and he was sharing his problems with her because he didn't want to "burden me with them" and that was the mistake... of course that's how it starts and then it went sexual as far as sexting and sending pictures (supposedly that was all and he still claims that) but it "mostly was just normal talking for a long time". No matter what, it's still an EA for several years and he's definitely downplaying the severity of the offense, and the amount of attention he paid her when I was begging for it is what gets to me so bad. I just can't get past the deceit issue of it all. I don't think he can grasp how bad this has hurt me, so he downplays it because maybe to him it really didn't mean so much... but to me it has been totally devastating.

He asked if I loved him and I said as a friend yes, but that's all, not in love, and could you blame me and he said no... but he is determined to keep trying and that I am his soul mate. I can't say that I think he's my soul mate exactly but definitely a good match as far as disposition and we never fight since we agree on everything. But on the same token there has always been a lack of passion. I said I am not sure if the loving feelings will ever return. I just don't want to live for years in a sexless, loveless relationship - how will I know when I have tried enough? 

God bless him for his patience but at some point we are going on 20 months of no sex and I am eventually going to go crazy. I guess I should be thankful to have someone who wants to make it work so badly, but don't they all say this? 

It's just hard because other than this issue everything is great. I can't say he's a super fun person per say, but also I am not near as amused as I used to be... lol He kind of doesn't really listen to what I am saying and insists on working on it and says he will wait as long as it takes. I think he doesn't want to hear it which I understand that... I mentioned having some sort of arrangement so that neither of us lose anything (since I am so detached that I could care less if he did something with someone else) - he said he doesn't want anyone else and that won't help. But he sure wanted someone else before it seems... just so confusing and hard.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Many people just can't have real empathy. Rather than trying to understand how another feels, they substitute how they feel and then make judgments based on that. 

Your WH doesn't agree with your pain. He doesn't think what happened is such a big deal, so...it wasn't. It's simple and you will eventually get over it. Enough time will do the trick, he hopes, because in his head it's just not that important.

For what it's worth, I think you could rebuild some feelings for this man if he began to respect and validate your feelings. If he stopped substituting his sensibility for yours when he thinks of your feelings, you might find a common ground to start reconciling. Right now you have no common understanding other than that your lifestyle is something that neither one wants to lose.

(Someone here wrote that the tipping point is when the pain of staying overcomes the pain of leaving. That hasn't been my personal experience. For me personally, the pain generated by betrayal and loss of trust gradually generates indifference & then it's easy to leave. At this point for me, there is no pain left at all. And this has happened to me when my partner underplayed the effects of his cheating and substituted his sensibility for mine throughout.)


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I think you're very right, Dame. I am at the point where I have the pain creates indifference thing. I have also become used to the idea of being alone / divorced, whereas at the outset it was a novel idea because I never planned on it. 

It does seem like every time we talk though, he kind of somehow brushes everything "negative" aside and just keeps going forward as if nothing is wrong. I mean, I don't blame him I guess, as he keeps as positive attitude and doesn't get mad, so that's pleasant, but also it leaves me feeling like I am getting nowhere and nothing was accomplished except "give it more time".

I agree that he just can't grasp what this feels like. He has always downplayed the situation anyway... and I don't know if someone really could without going through it. I mean, he acts concerned and caring but kind of like, get over it already. He said he would give me a second chance no matter what the cirumstances, but I don't think you can say that with certainty. To me it's not the event, but what the event says about his character. His mom is a serious narcissist, and so he's probably lucky he turned out as well as he did, but he has always seemed to lack empathy. And he's had a general attitude of "if I don't think you should be upset, your feelings are not valid". He's gotten better, but I feel like some of that is at play here and it's just him.

I mean, I was far from satisfied before with our sex life (never was) and I don't see it being far better now, so that's a main concern for me. I don't want to sign up for another 30-40+ years of it. It just sucks that everything else is good, or it would make it a lot easier to make the call. I wonder if we split up, would I regret it? But I am assuming many people think that. He does seem to think giving it time will be the answer. But I don't want to waste time either. How do people come to their decision!!? It's such a huge one!


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I somehow think that he will wind up being right about it being a matter of time. Either you will start to love him again and perhaps work successfully on your sex life, or your indifference will have you moving on.

If it helps any, my H's mother is an obvious narcissistic personality (bless her heart) and she raised an obviously narcissistic son. My H would have reacted just like yours. He would have just assumed that his opinion was the one that he should be paying attention to. He has changed with age, though. For the last 10 years (he's in his sixties), he has been able to consider my viewpoint. It has made a huge difference in the way we deal with our marriage.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

And I'll ask again, OP. Are you sure that the affair is over?


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

fadedsmile said:


> How do people come to their decision!!? It's such a huge one!


You ask so many of my same qustions, w many of the same struggles. 

~sammy


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> And I'll ask again, OP. Are you sure that the affair is over?


I am as sure as I can be, which is who knows  - he has a job where he works 24 hour shifts every other day, so he was doing most of the talking with her at work. It's nice because I have every other day to myself - otherwise I probably would have gone mad, it gives me a nice break - but it makes it hard to know what is really going on. He could just have a "burn phone" now (says other guys at work do, I never knew about them) and only talk to her there, or talk to her or whoever else on the work phone or work email. His work is on a Naval base, so I never go there and couldn't get access anyway without his doing, so I truly have no idea what goes on there and little way to find out... he never really acted strangely to start with, that's why I was so shocked, so it's not like I can tell if he's still doing it either. 

I refuse to be the crazy, obsessed and overbearing person that has to know where he is at every moment - if I can't trust someone, that's enough for me. He's off every other day while I'm at work, so plenty of time to do whatever he's going to do and I can't stop him... everyone knows that if someone wants something, where there is a will there's a way, lol. I have Find my iPhone and he doesn't know (I don't think) that I look at it periodically, but since I have been tracking him periodically he's never been anywhere suspicious or lied about his whereabouts. I never did have a "missing time" thing with him anyway, hence again the shock. He still maintains that they were never physical and he never wanted actual contact from her, and the only reason that leads me to believe this was her looks/weight, but I know that can be overlooked at a certain point....and that it was just a game at first to see what he could get her to do as far as sending pics, etc, without him sending any - but eventually he did of course. He gets off work at 7am, and I saw a couple, but very few, cell phone calls to her at like 8am which would be on his way home or just home, and I'm already gone for work... so that never made me feel very good. 

So yes, I'm trapped in limbo and have been for years now. He said I'm not going to leave, because I would have already if I was going to. But I have kind of planned it that way by design. I didn't want to make permanent decisions based on a possibly temporary situation of being distraught. However, it is continuing. The choice is lose a good lifestyle or live without fulfillment. In hindsight, I was never head over heels for him, like truly amazing in love; I think he had a problem with true intimacy due to his mother, perhaps, and maybe isn't/wasn't capable of it, or maybe we just didn't "click" on that level - but it was comfortable and easy and I trusted him. Good security, we got along well, sex was so-so. Never really felt desired. Now it's no longer comfortable and I don't trust him, so most of the main reasons it was good are gone. I don't see being closer than we were before this because of my hangups, and who knows, he might get sick of the lack of closeness that I predict will be present, too. For a while I felt like I could do it and it would be ok, but now I am feeling more and more like I can't. I just feel in my heart of hearts now that we will keep waiting it out but the end result will be the same. He seems to think in time I will be fine...

Sammy, I would like to hear your story


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## Row Jimmy (Apr 15, 2013)

Perhaps you need to focus more on YOU and actually work on detachment and doing things that make YOU happy. If you do that, perhaps you'll find that place of indifference that will allow you to take those first steps down the road to future happiness. 

Getting some IC may help you on your path to making a decision. I found IC really helped me find some peace and balance at times when my mind was spinning with indecision and my guts were burning with anxiety.

My wife isn't doing very well at meeting my needs, but if she had an EA or PA on top of that, one of us would be moving out as I wouldn't need any other reason to end it. 

What YOU want and need has to matter to him and especially to YOU at some pont. 20 months seems long enough to tell you what direction you should take. 

But it's still a very tough call and whatever road you choose there is going to be some kind of price to pay.

The reward of having a a partner who fulfills you and excites you and isn't a selfish liar seems kinda worth it to me. 

Best of luck!


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I really feel like I couldn't be more detached from him now... I recently went on a trip with friends to Europe for almost 2 weeks. I didn't miss him at all, and felt bad about it, but I didn't. 

Row Jimmy, I have realized after all this that while it wasn't probably malicious, we likely weren't truly meeting each other's needs although we got along super well and I feel content with the situation because I had no stress and it was easy. I was sexually unfulfilled and also we don't have great conversation. Maybe he felt the same way and that weakness we didn't realize was what opened the door for the EA / possible PA. He definitely didn't excite me terribly and acted like it was mutual. I almost always had to initate and was turned down at times, more often than one would expect. 

Your last sentence is definitely true. He does still continue to downplay the damage he has done to me and acts like we'll just keep pressing forward and all is fine. He's got a contractor coming to start a detached garage soon and I feel like we shouldn't be doing anything like that right now given the situation. He tends to ignore it and pretend like nothing is wrong, and what happened wasn't that bad, which probably enables him to live more at peace. Also, I think he thinks I can't or won't leave, especially after our last conversation. I do feel trapped sometimes but know I am really not... just would require huge changes for me which I hate to have to endure considering none of this is my fault.

It's just that he had the number listed under a false name in his phone, and only really talked with her while he was at work... for years. I just wonder what else someone is capable of if they can look at me day after day in the eye after having text sex the night before and sending pictures to and from with this girl. I saw where someone else said an EA is just as hurtful, whether the pee pee went in in real life or in dreams it's just as bad for the betrayed. He still maintains they never had real contact but of course also said he would not take a lie detector test because "he'd probably fail anyway for being nervous". If I were innocent or at least being honest, my answer would be absolutely! Take me there right now! Didn't make me feel very good - perhaps there are others I don't know about... ? Just don't trust him so that makes me think in the end it's not going to work. I don't feel like I know everything so I can't get past it for that reason too, despite the betrayal.

It seems like just now he is finally ready to be what he was supposed to be 15 years ago (which I was - committed and faithful). He said he would be willing to sign a "husband contract"... I said, well guess what, we did that when we got married! He acted like it was some special kindness for me but I was insulted.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Soul mates don't share all their problems and sext with another woman.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

turnera said:


> Soul mates don't share all their problems and sext with another woman.


You're pretty widely read Turnera. Do you believe soul mates exist and if so what does it look like?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wazza said:


> You're pretty widely read Turnera. Do you believe soul mates exist and if so what does it look like?


No, I don't believe in soul mates. I think we go into relationships with a lifetime of baggage and (hopefully) a well-rounded common sense to not be looking for either someone to rescue or someone to rescue us.

If you've got your head on straight, you don't look for someone to complete you - you seek someone to complement you. For instance, my DD23 won't date a smoker, won't date someone who isn't curious about the world (loves to learn, wants a college degree, etc.), wants someone who loves to get out in nature and go on hikes, stuff like that. She knows who she wants. She just hasn't met him yet.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Faded Smile,

You should read JustGrinding's letter to his wife, who was in a 7 year affair with a man who was nothing in comparison with her husband. Your husband's OW was a large presence in his life. 

They did not have much sex because she is not desirable. Do you think your WH is gay or lacking in male backbone?

His affair sounds like two female curs who curled up with each other for comfort.

Usually TAM is very against open marriages. But maybe that is what you need. Keep your life style. Let him appear to the world as he always has.

There is in any case no real passion between you and WH. You made a bad choice. Fix it now. 

Re: soul mates
If course they exist, but such love is by definition much more difficult to find later in life. Soul mates are not disturbed by pregnancy, bankruptcy or cancer.

Soul mates remain in the heart even after divorce.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## tristeza (May 23, 2013)

Take my advice and call it quits while you are young. Don't forgive like I did in my 40's only to have it happen again to me in my 60's. Two years of sexting, swearing eternal love, and trashing me, and my husband expects me to forgive and forget...again! Once a cheater, always a cheater. Once the trust is gone, it is never the same anyway.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

A marriage without sex is no marriage at all. Speaking as a normal, healthy man, I love to have sex all the time. When my wife initiates I literally rise to the occasion. You deserve the same. I hope you have decided by now.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I agree with you, sandc. I never could understand why he was so lackluster in his sex drive - he is very muscular, works out daily, etc, so I doubt it is low testosterone? He has been that way literally since we met. Maybe a confidence issue, not sure. 

Of course, he wants sex now, but it is because I won't give it because I now have 100% no romantic feelings because of what happened. I now don't hate him, but don't have any sexual desire whatsoever for him. We have a good friendship at this point as far as getting along, we agree on everything, and it's pleasant, but I am too scared to try for anything more and have no desire to start anything sexual. 

It's hard because he's very nice and wants to "try", and we get along perfectly, but I just can't overcome what he was doing behind my back for so long. I don't trust him - I mean he is great with the finances and other stuff I just don't trust him with my emotions is I guess what I mean.

I am at a real impass. If he was mean to me it would be way easier to decide. But then again a marriage without sex will not last anyway on either side. He says he will wait as long as it takes but I am getting tired of waiting myself, to feel better about it that is. The sex was never that good to start with so why do I want to sign up for another 40 years of that or even less now however we get along flawlessly. So difficult.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sounds like you're wavering because he's safe. That's not a marriage; that's a convenience.

You'll find someone else you're more compatible with.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I would say yes to that... I guess we just have a good roommate situation now.

So why do I feel guilty that I don't want to work it out? Why do I worry about hurting his feelings and causing him grief to end it after he has caused me so much over the past 18 months... Financially it would be an issue for me to let him go also, but I don't want to use him for a paycheck either. I just want my old life back but I know now that it's not going to happen. And I'm still really angry about it.

My friend calls it pleaser-disease - that I can't hurt anyone's feelings, so I just sacrifice my own. Even when the person deserves to be hurt so to speak...

He claims he does not want any sort of open marriage, that he doesn't want anyone else. But that's kind of ironic...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you read The Dance Of Anger? It's about being the Pleaser, the Giver, and the anger you develop for never getting what YOU need. It's recommended a lot by therapists.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Faded, a few posts back you asked how much time is enough in order to try to recover your feelings. You've been going at this for almost 2 years correct? You say you are in limbo? Let me suggest this. If you aren't making progress forward maybe enough time has already passed?


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Sex should not be mediocre. Sex should be amazing. At least some of the time it should be. My wife and I have amazing sex. It's always great! Don't you deserve that?

Now... I know a marriage isn't always about sex. It's a partnership but sex is a HUGE part of marriage in my universe. Stop playing it safe. Get out and live.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

It has always been mediocre and always left me thinking there had to be more. I am very happy with how we get along and he is treating me well NOW... now making dinners for me, being thoughtful, attentive... of course NOW but never before - it does make me like him more but doesn't make me trust him or want to have any romantic relationship with him. My only worry is if I leave over the lack of sex/romantic interest is that dumb? Of course I won't trust him again either, but everything else in the relationship is good. But honestly we are just friends and good roommates I guess. Why do I feel guilty wanting to move on? I guess because he is trying so hard and I don't want to hurt his feelings. Of course I worry also am I making the wrong decision? I suppose a separation is not permanent, but I just hate having regrets. However, the facts are that he cheated with an EA at the very least for 4 years. I just can't get past that, no matter how nice he is now... and he wasn't near that nice to me for the past 16 (not mean just not like this). So if he was capable, why do I have to go through such horrid pain for him to start trying??


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Sex has to be part of marriage in my book. Sounds like it in yours too. We don't marry another person to live like a room mate. They already make people like that. They are called room mates. 

Either he commits to the marriage and commits sexually or you move on. Before committing to moving on though I would ask him to go to marriage counseling with you, and maybe even see a sex therapist and find out if he has some sort of mental block or something. If it's physical then he can see a urologist about it. If he doesn't want to do any of that then he's just not that committed to the marriage. I would do anything to be able to hump my wife like a bunny.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

It's one thing to try to reconcile with a cheating spouse if they demonstrate remorse. It's quite another if they're not.

Even though your husband is playing nice, he's not truly remorseful. If he was, he'd either come completely clean with you or agree to take a polygraph. Period.

I get the sense he's biding his time and anticipating that you'll eventually acquiesce to sex. And in the mean time, he gets to avoid significant consequences and has your help in paying the bills.

But since he's not really remorseful, that won't last too long. I predict that he'll tire of the roommate routine and pick his spots to cheat, until he finds an exit affair partner that is financially viable.

If it were me; I might consider R if he demonstrates remorse by his actions. I wouldn't if he doesn't.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I am sure he wants to now (acts like it whereas before he didn't) and think now he may be committed, but I can't get over all the "suffering" (it wasn't THAT bad, at the risk of sounding dramatic) I did for so many years and begged for it to get better... I guess the real problem was we weren't that intimate in general. Always more like roommates in hindsight but it was comfortable.

Now he's all gung ho and wants to be this perfect guy I always asked for, but only after he has completely devastated me. Why couldn't it have happened before, if he was apparently capable and "cared so much" about me? 

My connundrum is do I hold the grudge and just refuse to let myself get any closer as I am now (for fear of pain in the future again) - I just don't feel like having sex with him - I have the feeling currently if I never did again I'd be fine with it.... sad but true... he's extremely attrative, fit, muscular, good looking dark w blue eyes, etc...but I unfortunately don't have any attraction in that way because of all the pain he has caused me. I was a virgin and feel like sex is special and now I feel like he has lost the privilege I guess.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

fadedsmile said:


> Why do I feel guilty wanting to move on?


Because you're a woman and that's how we work.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If he has truly changed, however, you can get those feelings back. The question is, is it for real?


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

badmemory said:


> It's one thing to try to reconcile with a cheating spouse if they demonstrate remorse. It's quite another if they're not.
> 
> Even though your husband is playing nice, he's not truly remorseful. If he was, he'd either come completely clean with you or agree to take a polygraph. Period.
> 
> ...


He does seem like he is biding his time waiting for me to just give in. He's doing a good job - it's been 19 months now... I guess it's a stalemate and we are just nice to each other lol. I am sure I have been too nice but being ugly is just not in my nature no matter what the offense. Maybe I am too weak, I don't know?

He seems remorseful sometimes and sometimes he doesn't. He still doesn't grasp the amount of hurt I have felt I don't think. I don't think anyone can unless they have been through it. I think he still feels like it wasn't that big a deal and that I should be able to get past it and he's waiting me out.

I have mentioned recently that I wanted to think about separating or making another arrangement - he says that's not what he wants then kind of ignores it and all is back to the status quo. We were going to build a detached garage and I said shouldn't we wait until we figure all this out - well he ignored me and went full steam ahead, saying "I'm not going to bet against us". One of my friends says he is running me over by not addressing any of my concerns - as soon as we talk about anything (which is never a battle and very quick), then it goes back to business as usual. Good roommates with no sex.

In a way it seems real - he's been "faking it" for almost two years now - but then again, as soon as I "give in", will it just go back? And can I ever trust? If it was never a passionate relationship to start, but good lifestyle and comfortable, am I sacrificing too much by knowing or thinking I know it'll never be passionate especially now? But will I regret giving up the lifestyle and comfort? Ugh.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Then show him it won't work. Make arrangements to move out. You can always get back together later.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

It's very hard - I have 24 horses on the property to take care of, and I live in a remote area, so I can't really move out . And he knows that. Some people say he knows he has me trapped... kind of... but who wants to be with someone you have to trap to keep?


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

What I am learning is that the second chance is for you, not for him. If you are going to spend your time regretting having not tried harder once you pull the plug.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

fadedsmile said:


> But will I regret giving up the lifestyle and comfort? Ugh.


My point is that even if you make a decision to stay with him only because of finances; you risk even losing that down the road. Then, not only will you have thrown away more years with a loveless marriage and a non-remorseful spouse, you may find yourself without the material possessions you are desperate to hang on to.

I would just not be able to intrust my financial security to a non-remorseful husband who continues to rug sweep his affair. At the very least, you should plan an exit strategy.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

badmemory said:


> my point is that even if you make a decision to stay with him only because of finances; you risk even losing that down the road. Then, not only will you have thrown away more years with a loveless marriage and a non-remorseful spouse, you may find yourself without the material possessions you are desperate to hang on to.
> 
> I would just not be able to intrust my financial security to a non-remorseful husband who continues to rug sweep his affair. At the very least, you should plan an exit strategy.


this is very wise advice to consider


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So hire someone to take care of the horses.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

badmemory said:


> Even though your husband is playing nice, he's not truly remorseful. If he was, he'd either come completely clean with you or agree to take a polygraph. Period.


I don't agree with this. It might be how we want the world to be with our cheating spouses, but let's face it, it is human nature when you stuff up to hide it, and even if you fess up, to put it in a way that minimises how bad you look. Why should it be different in the case if infidelity.



badmemory said:


> I would just not be able to intrust my financial security to a non-remorseful husband who continues to rug sweep his affair. At the very least, you should plan an exit strategy.


If you only take one idea from this thread, this is the one to take.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Hi everyone, I wanted to come back with an update and for some continuing advice if you don't mind... I really need help...

I am still stuck in this charade and living a lie of a life. We still go out to dinner and with friends (no vacations or anything like that)... most of our friends still don't know, as well as family - and I told him I didn't want him to go to my Xmas party for work and I went alone. I actually had a great time by myself and did not miss him at all. It was a relief to not have him there and not have to pretend to people that I am happy and not have him trying to dance up on me and be close.

I don't mind him at home as in being a friend or room mate, but I still have 100% no attraction whatsoever. It's been 20 months now since we had sex and 22 months since DDay. Is it safe to say it's not going to get better?

I have been working on forgiving, for myself to let go of the pain and not kill myself with holding the anger, and it seems to be helping although I am afraid that forgiving will allow me to let myself get close again which I don't want.

Like I said, our "love" life wasn't that good before this happened, it was safe and comfortable but in hindsight we never had a deep emotional bond so to speak (he may not be capable honestly, or was not then or not willing) so I don't see how it would be any better now and I don't want to sign up for another 40 years of feeling like I am emotionally lacking... I know it will lead to an affair again on one of our parts and it's not fair to not have a loving a fulfilling relationship. At times during our marriage I kind of wanted a way out because I was unfulfilled but the rest was so good I tolerated it.

He has been trying hard since DDay with the compliments and the showing that he cares, which is nice, but it's also sort of hurtful because I wonder why he could not do all this before when I was begging for it? If you've read this thread you know that he also would regularly turn me down for sex and I just don't want to sign up for a lifetime of disappointment there either.

I feel guilty for saying I am done when he is trying so hard, and kind of wish I had gotten separated or dealt with this sooner, but I feel like it's gone on long enough. I swept it under the rug for a long time and the charade is killing me, and my hope is waning that I will ever be ready for more than friends. 

However, to end it means I probably lose my lifestyle and probably some of my possessions and maybe even some of my beloved horses. I feel like the decision would be much easier if I had a lot of money of my own, and so if I am keeping him for a paycheck, that is not fair either. He does a lot of things for me around the house and help with the horses so I am feeling very guilty about that now like I am leading him on and using him when I feel there is not much hope of me wanting to continue the relationship. Trying to be as honest with myself as possible... but I also did not put us into this huge mess. So I don't feel like I should have to lose because of a choice I now have to make based on what he did.

We have a horse farm as I said, and I can't myself leave, because I have horses to take care of (and love doing it, they are keeping me going right now) and also we have babies arriving in a couple months, so I can't personally leave. That makes it even harder.

Any ideas??? Maybe I am just scared of the unknown and scared to take that first step, but the thought of having some progress towards peace for myself also feels pleasing.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have him move out to the stables so he can work for you, and divorce him.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

You know what to do. 

I can tell you what I would do in your shoes. I would be divorced.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You are damned if you do, damned if you don't. You just have to accept that and finally make a choice for your future. Wishing it isn't so isn't going to make your choices any better.

As far as the guilt goes, you have zero to feel guilty about if you exit the marriage. He cheated for at least four years. Given your marital sexual history, I would question this - I think it's a valid assumption that it has been longer than that & that he hasn't truly cut it off with the OW. People go underground when they are busted and you two have no sex life. This is a recipe for continued infidelity.

So, you either take your freedom with some loss on the financial side, or stay in your comfortable living arrangement with no real love or intimacy. Your choice.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Or, you could be creative in how you view your options. You say you have to keep your horses, but you have to keep him to afford it. Why aren't you 'renting' horse rides to kids, or marketing your farm to earn more money, or selling the babies and investing the money so you can afford to live on your own? 

And, I just have to say it - really? You 'have to keep' 24 horses (plus their babies)? Unless you're earning money from them, isn't that just a little over the top for someone who says she can only afford them if she keeps her cheating husband? You have to keep ALL of them? I'm in Houston, so I know lots of horse owners, and I don't know a single one who has anywhere near that many, even for an extended family.

Maybe this would be a good time to do some reflecting on the differences between wants and needs.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

How about a legal separation? See a lawyer and get some ideas.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

It's hard because everything else is really good. Life, living arrangements, and he treats me well. Just no feelings and no desire. He is trying, and being very nice, which makes me feel guilty because I feel nothing.

Actually, the business I have with the horses (I work full time also with a good state job, so have health insurance, etc thankfully) supports itself, and I run it with my best friend and neighbor now for 11 years. So, any change to that affects her which sucks. But, it does not take any income from our paychecks and he never has any say in the business since it doesn't include him. I just mean the house payment and keeping up the farm and maintenance, etc. Those expenses - I guess easy enough to get a roommate or something, but if he wanted me to buy him out I couldn't afford it. I make 3x less than he does just about, so I couldn't get financed for the mortgage by myself...

I don't believe he is still cheating but I don't know. I watch him on Find my iphone (he doesn't know I don't think) and he is always where he says he is. He doesn't guard his phone or hide it - never really did... but when he is at work he could do anything since he is there 24 hours. I guess without trust there is no relationship, and while he's given me NO reasons not to trust him since, I still don't...lol


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

I'm sorry, but she's 300 lbs? 

And YOU have DD's? Not to be superficial but what was he thinking?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, like I said, start marketing your business better, then.


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

fadedsmile said:


> But will I regret giving up the lifestyle and comfort? Ugh.


Be sure to tell him that the only factor in your reluctance is his income.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

DarkHoly said:


> I'm sorry, but she's 300 lbs?
> 
> And YOU have DD's? Not to be superficial but what was he thinking?


Yes... she is legit 300lb and I am 160 at 5'10, work out/reasonably fit and 36DD. He said it was never for sex, just for the attention and she rubbed his ego. Of course they were sexting and sharing pictures so I just have a feeling it was more than that, if not with her, with someone else. Who knows. He was flirting with old friends from high school and the Navy on FB as well. I never saw any confirmation of a true EA or any real infidelity with these people but he would compliment them and basically was throwing out bait and it was interesting to see that none really took it.... but he was seeking attention from a variety of other girls is my point. 

One time he told me this "fat chick" from high school was "stalking him" on FB and then after DDay when I was investigating I found emails from her that must have been missed (obviously he deleted the others) that said "where is my good morning email?" so if he was saying good morning regularly no wonder she was "stalking him"... he seemed to like to at least lead people on... I guess he wasn't getting enough attention from me so was seeking it elsewhere? The odd thing was I was begging for it!

So now he says he has seen the light and changed, and for a while now I have seen no evidence of funny business, but who knows what goes on at work or when I'm not home, if he has a "burn phone" or who knows what else. Just don't trust! And don't plan to, honestly.

I guess I am being unrealistic in hoping to get out of it without feeling any kind of regret, guilt, missing him at all, or any feelings like that. I guess I am just tired of hurting and I don't want to go through it all over again. I have mourned the death of our relationship once and probably should have just done more then. He keeps saying he knows we can fix it, and yes, if I decided to blindly trust him and let myself feel again maybe we could get back to lackluster sex and a bare minimum connection... then my therapist I recently saw said it could be far better than ever but I just don't see that as a possibility? Does that really happen? I mean if you once were madly, madly in love but in hindsight I just never was. It was very good and pleasant and secure, but madly in love is not a way I would have described it.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

DarkHoly said:


> Be sure to tell him that the only factor in your reluctance is his income.


It really is the biggest factor... someone said you can tell by thinking "could I be happy with just this one person and a cardbox box" and the answering is unequivocally no! Without the other things that I have and my lifestyle I would not be near as happy. I guess I use things to take the place of what I am missing. As an only child with parents that had a big company I learned to depend on myself for happiness and always rode horses and had hobbies so I depend on them a lot more than people I guess?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

fadedsmile said:


> It really is the biggest factor... someone said you can tell by thinking "could I be happy with just this one person and a cardbox box" and the answering is unequivocally no! Without the other things that I have and my lifestyle I would not be near as happy. I guess I use things to take the place of what I am missing. As an only child with parents that had a big company I learned to depend on myself for happiness and always rode horses and had hobbies so I depend on them a lot more than people I guess?


You know, I have to admit, that my finances/life style were a consideration when I decided to R with my wife. Not the only one, but an important one.

And even though I'm still not close to being 100% emotionally available to her, and maybe never will be, I've decided to keep going. Because all things considered, my life isn't bad and she demonstrates remorse.

However, I would not stay in a sexless marriage. I'm a male and that's important to me.

If sex isn't that important to you, so be it. But if I were you, I'd be concerned about how your husband has been able to deal without it this long. How does he cope? What does he do to compensate? Maybe he's just unusual, but certainly he doesn't fit the mold for a majority of men.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

badmemory said:


> You know, I have to admit, that my finances/life style were a consideration when I decided to R with my wife. Not the only one, but an important one.
> 
> And even though I'm still not close to being 100% emotionally available to her, and maybe never will be, I've decided to keep going. Because all things considered, my life isn't bad and she demonstrates remorse.
> 
> ...


Sex is VERY important to me. And always was. However, he would frequently turn me down and seemed to have a pretty low sex drive even when we met (he was 24). I always felt he wasn't attracted to me and always felt undesired.

So, I know he masturbates (we are open about this, never bothered me, and I've seen proof so to speak lol) and I can take care of myself as well, but of course this is not meant to be a substitute.... I have been repulsed by his advances so he doesn't even try anymore (which is a relief) but I feel bad that he is going without. I wonder if he really is going without... but I haven't got any reason to think he's not. Although he has always said if someone denied a man they "don't have the patent on it" and a guy is going to get it anyway from somewhere. So heck if I know considering I never knew he was having a four year EA ... ??

I am just so torn because he seems better now and we get along fine but I also still feel like I have no intention of getting intimate again. It was never that great in the first place. So why sign up for even more of it? I guess it's a risk either way so I am just scared of taking either choice!!!


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

badmemory said:


> You know, I have to admit, that my finances/life style were a consideration when I decided to R with my wife. Not the only one, but an important one.
> 
> And even though I'm still not close to being 100% emotionally available to her, and maybe never will be, I've decided to keep going. Because all things considered, my life isn't bad and she demonstrates remorse.
> 
> ...


Sex is VERY important to me. And always was. However, he would frequently turn me down and seemed to have a pretty low sex drive even when we met (he was 24). I always felt he wasn't attracted to me and always felt undesired.

So, I know he masturbates (we are open about this, never bothered me, and I've seen proof so to speak lol) and I can take care of myself as well, but of course this is not meant to be a substitute.... I have been repulsed by his advances so he doesn't even try anymore (which is a relief) but I feel bad that he is going without. I wonder if he really is going without... but I haven't got any reason to think he's not. Although he has always said if someone denied a man they "don't have the patent on it" and a guy is going to get it anyway from somewhere. So heck if I know considering I never knew he was having a four year EA ... ??

I am just so torn because he seems better now and we get along fine but I also still feel like I have no intention of getting intimate again. It was never that great in the first place. So why sign up for even more of it? I guess it's a risk either way so I am just scared of taking either choice!!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Are you actually telling him this stuff?


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Yes, I definitely have. We don't talk about it a lot, and rather just kind of pretend nothing is wrong, but it's the elephant in the room. He just keeps saying he wants to try to work it out and that he will wait as long as it takes and "I have to learn to trust someone again so might as well be him." And I said, well, other people haven't lied to me for 4 years so that might be easier... He does treat me more nicely than he used to but it's been hard to accept.

It's just hard because I recently (last week) tried to put in motion some sort of path towards a resolution - telling him I want to end the charade and stop pretending everything is ok, and figure out what we are going to do (which he wants to work it out, but it's been almost 2 years!), but then I find myself panicking in thinking of him actually moving out and leaving ???? Even though I don't really have any intention of getting any closer than I already am and by that I know it would never work long term anyway... He tried to back off with the phone calls and stuff basically as I asked him to, and I started getting anxious and upset. So that thoroughly confused me - is that just because of the change and fear of the unknown? Fear of being alone? (have no kids and very little family who aren't even close, only friends) Fear of making the wrong decision? Fear of him leaving and moving on and then I decide somehow I want to try again and lose out, even though I feel now like I don't? I mean, we have been together for 17 years now, since I was 19. I thought I had made up my mind and then this lead me to question it, even though all of the above still rings true. This is so hard!!!  I am not good with decisions to start with and don't like personal risk, so this is really working on my nerves and making me really anxious.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you've been together since you were a teenager, you have lots of fears, and don't feel capable of taking care of yourself. You might want to try being on your own.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

While I fully think I can actually take care of myself on my own (I run a business on my own and have great credit and good money handling skills ), I guess that it's just not what I "want"... but then again I don't know if I "want" him, in the capacity of a husband at least. I just thought I was ready to move forward and then when I tried I scared myself and am now back in the state of flux, so to speak, where I seem to now be comfortable. Ugh. We have a good friendship but honestly that's probably what it's been for a long time now... while I know it can't sustain as a marriage like this it's still a relationship I suppose, and a long one of 17 years, and I've already mourned the death of the intimacy and I guess I should have ripped off the bandaid all at once because now I feel like I have to go through the loss all over again. I guess waiting it out wasn't smart and now I'm just afraid and tired of being in pain. 

When we talked briefly about separating, he mentioned there is not really room in the budget for an apartment, etc. So I still kind of feel stuck in a way, and also just now scared more than anything I think. I don't like change to begin with and feel adjusted to my current way of life, however dissatisfying.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm extremely confident in the business world, where I know my value. I take charge. I fix things. I have admirers.

But come to my house, and you wouldn't even recognize me. Once it comes to a partner, from whom you want love and respect and desire...all your security flows out the cracks.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I guess you hit the nail head on! I feel just like that.

So how do I move forth with everything? I thought I was very ready but putting it into action is so hard. I guess I am just petrified. Scared of the potentially being alone and scared on the financial implications, etc. Then since he wants to work it out, seeing him hurt, despite how he has hurt me so badly, also makes me feel guilty and breaks my heart all over again. I feel like I will always be floundering in la-la land, almost waiting for something else to go wrong so I can get the strength I need to be mad enough again to pull the plug... or do I just stay where it's comfortable now but without any love or intimacy, which let's face it, won't last anyhow. Argh.

He may be in the same boat as me, where he is also afraid and so we are both clinging on, just he has more hope than I do.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He can prove himself from his own place. And once you are separated, if he DOESN'T make the effort, then you'll have dodged a bullet.

As for moving forward, start small. First, make NO promises. Love yourself enough to have at least that boundary. "I don't know what I'm doing yet." should be enough.

Second, pick one thing that needs to be done, should you move on. Like setting up your own bank account. Or starting a savings account for your down payment on a new place. Or getting a job, or a better one, to be self sufficient. Taking these small steps, one at a time, are going to boost your self esteem and give you the belief that you deserve better.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

He is making the effort now... I just can't forget about all the years that I tried and he didn't. Part of me says open up and try, and part says why...

Thanks for your advice. It really helps. I guess I want a quick answer to this and a quick solution, but I suppose there is nothing quick about it. Just feel like I am 35 and I want to be able to be secure again and happy or at least not in turmoil anymore, like I once was. Want to know the right answer! It's funny because while it wasn't totally perfect (and that's fine) before, if people asked I would eagerly say I was happily married.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And now?


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Now I would say I am living with a long time friend, who wants more but I don't. But I am a little scared to be without this friend whom I've lived with for so long. Everything works but the physical aspect which was never all that great, whether it was issues on his part or maybe he was always getting attention on the side. ?


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I'd like to share something I saw written in another thread today...



coffee4me said:


> It was hard to live in a frame of mind where I felt stuck. Then everything felt like a burden. I didn't realize that when I finally came to a decision my burden would be lifted. That's all it took to start to feel unstuck.
> 
> The actions followed slowly but allowing myself to make up my mind was the biggest obstacle to my happiness. I realized soon after I made the decision that once made I could just accept the fallout good or bad. No dwelling, no second guessing myself. That kept my mind in a peaceful state during a chaotic time.
> 
> I learned a big life lesson that I now remind myself of when faced with other life stressors. The indecision is what tore up my soul and a decision (good or bad) set it free


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## jnichk76 (Nov 4, 2013)

fadedsmile said:


> Now I would say I am living with a long time friend, who wants more but I don't. But I am a little scared to be without this friend whom I've lived with for so long. Everything works but the physical aspect which was never all that great, whether it was issues on his part or maybe he was always getting attention on the side. ?


Have you mad a decision?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She is fat therefore she is unattractive. Well, as Thorburn pointed out, that isn't necessarily so.

My wife thinks that I would find thin women attractive. I don't, in general.

She'd point out thin women in the street and say: "I bet you fancy her" I kept saying no, I didn't.

Eventually she said: "Well, what type of woman do you fancy?"

I pointed to a woman of about my wife's size and said: "She's pretty."

My wife looked puzzled and said: "But she's my size!" To which I replied: "Yes. Now do your understand?"


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I pointed to a woman of about my wife's size and said: "She's pretty."
> 
> My wife looked puzzled and said: "But she's my size!" To which I replied: "Yes. Now do your understand?"


That's funny.

My SO got pissed at me for watching porn one day and went looking through my collection. She was completely confused as to why the porn starlettes looked like her. *sigh*


fadedsmile, here's a thought that a counselor gave to me when I was having issues.

You need to forgive. NOT FORGET. But forgive.
Why, because you are caring a lot of hurt. Because you are caring a lot of ANGER. In ther grand spectacle of everything, does your hurt and anger affect him more than you?

NO. It only hurts you.

If you can learn to forgive, you give up the hurt and the anger. You no longer allow it to negatively affect you. Once that happens, you are able to see and feel again with clarity.

If you haven't (I didn't see mention of this), get into IC. You have a tremendous amount of anger and hurt (rightly so!). IC would help to work on allowing your self to forgive (again not forget!) and move on.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You cannot be married to a man whose physical touch repulses you. You must end it.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> You cannot be married to a man whose physical touch repulses you. You must end it.


:iagree:

You're young, attractive, no kids.

Run, Forest, run.......


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Rugs said:


> :iagree:
> 
> 
> 
> Run, Forest, run.......



Who, me?


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## BetrayedAgain7 (Apr 27, 2013)

fadedsmile said:


> Now I would say I am living with a long time friend, who wants more but I don't. But I am a little scared to be without this friend whom I've lived with for so long. Everything works but the physical aspect which was never all that great, whether it was issues on his part or maybe he was always getting attention on the side. ?


Sounds to me like there was just no passion in the marriage. 
Without passion, it's just a living death.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Hi, everyone! I just thought I'd give a little update... 

It's been a long road of indecision for me, but with a gut feeling that I should move on the whole time. I recently started to get more convinced and had talked about separating. He still resisted the idea. So, I have had discussion about signing papers or even offered some sort of open relationship or alterative agreement, but my STBX would not "give up" and kept telling me we could work it out, I love you so much, you're the only one for me, blah blah. As recently as 2 weeks ago he made another appeal when he noticed I had taken my rings off (never, ever before had I done that). I reconsidered and it was very painful to relive the whole thing again... but I still answered no, I didn't want to continue. At this point I am waiting on him to be willing to sign papers and I feel like I'm on hold. I still would wonder maybe I am doing the wrong thing, maybe he's really changed because he is always where he says he is (using Find My iPhone which he didn't know) and we had no incident since in two year, so I think in the back of my head, even though I'm not at all attracted to him, maybe I SHOULD try again. Again my gut still says no.

Sooooo, Thursday last week I had a funeral to attend at 7pm about an hour from my house. He said he was going to go out with some friends and have a few beers, no problem of course. We weren't really doing things together anymore anyway. So, I get home about 9:30pm and don't think anything about him not being home. At 10:30, still not home, so I text, and he says will be leaving soon. I look at the "Find my iPhone" app on my phone, that he doesn't know about I guess, and the dot is over a house in a neighboring area but far from our house. I don't know these people who he is with as far as where they live (he works with them) so I didn't think much of it. I get ready to go to bed and fall asleep.

At 12:30am I wake up to potty. Not home... and I look at the FMIphone and he is still at the same spot. I thought it was weird because he never stayed out that late on a weekday worknight even though works shifts and the guys he's supposedly with work shifts also with him. He's an hour from home still also and has to get up at 4:45 for work. But I just shrug and go back to bed.

At 3am I wake up and still not there. So now I am really annoyed. We aren't on good terms, but he was usually friendly and respectful and I didn't think we were drinking and staying out all night... so I look at FMiPhone and he's at same house. I also notice he sent me a text at 1:30am saying he had drank too much to drive and was just going to crash at friend's house and go straight work in morning, since it was only about 15 minutes away. Ok.... sounded kinda legit but just still struck me oddly. 

In the morning he texts early something short like, "man I'm tired". I didn't respond, which is unlike me, because I am annoyed and a bit upset that he stayed out all night. He called a few times and I did not answer. 

So nothing else was said about it really except I questioned him about where he was and who he was with, I guess because I didn't believe him deep down. I have known him 17 years and it just didn't make sense totally and was out of character. I never question... so I guess he knew I didn't believe. I continued to be short and we didn't talk on the phone Friday or Saturday (actually have not since).

Sunday I am sitting on the couch and he's been at work 3 days straight, so I haven't even seen him yet (common - and yes checked his phone and he was there)... I pick up his iPad and open his FB just to check things which I used to NEVER do, but not snooping at all proved to be a bad thing for me in the end. I saw he had a recent message with a girl named Alana who I knew about as a friend he had had a few years that works near him. About 13 years younger than he and if I do say so, not as attractive as I am (couldn't help it lol). The message contained nothing out of the ordinary as far as sexually charged talk, but did seem like they talked often the way it came across. 

I suddenly got an idea... I wonder where this girl lives. I put in her name on White Pages and the address popped up - the same address he was that night. 

I was instantly enraged and confronted him immediately, and safe to say I told him I wanted to sign papers right away and I was 100% done, and how dare he do this to me when I am waiting on HIM to move forward and he wouldn't!! He claimed he just stopped by to talk, and that it felt good to get attention and time went by so quick that he didn't realize it was so late. They didn't hug/kiss/have sex and just "went to bed" (which means slept in her bed together). Firstly, I call ... we haven't had relations in a LONG time so he would be sufficiently starved for it like I am, so chances of him saying no would be slim, and this girl is single and likewise apparently hasn't had a boyfriend in quite some time. So, he said he knew I wouldn't believe it but how do you talk for hours and then just walk to the same bed and go to sleep (and he said he wore his boxers and she wore t shirt and shorts...)? How about sleep on the couch in your clothes? Doesn't make too much sense. What he should have done was at least leave at 10:30 and come home. Then tell me we needed to go ahead with the papers. He also was very callous when I confronted him, saying "I should have seen this coming" and "I was done with him anyway" and "It would have been nice to sleep with her, why lie". Classy. The attitude was really just crappy considering what he had already done and put me through. He would also tell me he was still my friend, ummmmm, that's funny because none of my friends try to destroy me multiple times with selfish jerk behavior!! He is back to being Mr. Nice now... said he was so guilty after, even before I found out, that he didn't eat for 3 days. That's a lot of guilt for "nothing happened"... and that it isn't like that, and he is not interested in her. Thing is I don't care if he dates her, just sign the damn papers first! Sheesh!!!!

So, at least this has made my decisions infinitely easier, because I know now that whenever he's given a chance to choose his needs over hurting me, he will choose himself. And he has no problem lying to me for his own gain. This is incident number two at least that I know of. I am happy at least to have a decision made. Ready to start living again! Separation papers are being drawn up and almost ready!!


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Sorry to hear he revealed his true colors to you again.

The silver lining is knowing what you need to do.


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

It took two and a half years, but it came back! That's what I was afraid of! Some really poor decision making and deceit again. Then after I am hurt and try to recover he acts all nice again like nothing happened and it was no big deal. Granted, we have been talking of separating and I have continued to tell him I didn't want to continue, but still doesn't mean you go out and spend the night with another girl. I would never have dreamed of that kind of disrespect towards him even after he was terrible to me before.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

When are you moving out?


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I'm not - he is - he is working on that now. But we will have to live together a short time while the details get worked out. I'm fine with that just leave me alone  As much as I was hurt yet again by his lies and deception, I am happy it happened so I know I'm making the right choice without regret.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

FS, file for divorce and begin your new life! You deserve so much better.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

fadedsmile said:


> It took two and a half years, but it came back! That's what I was afraid of! Some really poor decision making and deceit again. Then after I am hurt and try to recover he acts all nice again like nothing happened and it was no big deal. Granted, we have been talking of separating and I have continued to tell him I didn't want to continue, but still doesn't mean you go out and spend the night with another girl. I would never have dreamed of that kind of disrespect towards him even after he was terrible to me before.


But what about this? Did he use this as an excuse for his bad behaviour?:scratchhead:



> So, I have had discussion about signing papers or even offered some sort of open relationship


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Somewhere deep down you knew. You knew he'd hurt you again so that's why you never lowered your walls. Always trust your gut!


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

bfree, you are exactly right. I was always too scared to open back up for this reason. 

MattMatt, he used the excuse of "I was done with him anyway" and "I should have seen this coming" (that he would find someone else since I kept denying him)... which was all fine if he had just said, hey, let's go ahead with the separation! HE was the one resisting!! Then says he meant to just stop by and say hello and had every intention of coming home, but time got away from them while talking and so he just stayed there. He admits it was a horrible decision and super disrepectful to me - which is great, but doesn't stop him from doing it again and again aparently (though he did seem to try in the two years in the middle but I never could again get engaged in the relationship due to lack of trust and also fear).

The thing is, I was FINE with him seeing someone else, if he had just gone about it the right way and not the underhanded, lying and crappy way that ended up hurting me AGAIN. He said he was upset because I turned him down again and didn't make a good decision. I am honestly happy for him if he's found someone of interest, but not sure why can't just be honest. Seems like most guys would be thrilled with this situation (me telling him let's sign papers so we can date other people and move on).


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

You should talk to lawyer, may be able to get a piece of his income to make house payment with. Downsize the ranch to make payment manageable. You should be able to get a piece of his retirement from his job on the base. If your state observes adultery subpoena all phone records. In Okla. Adultery is felony up to 5 yrs in OKDOC or $500 fine. 

And....tell everybody everything
You do not need to be made to look like the bad wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Boy did this get interesting.... will try to give the cliff notes...

After I was enraged about him staying the night with another woman with whom "nothing happened", we began drafting a separation agreement. It was not yet signed but I told him I didn't care what he did, nor should he care about me (because obviously he truly doesn't). 

I had to go to my mom's house a few hours away on a Friday night, and a few things he said already tipped me off that he was planning on staying out that night (ok...) - so I watched my Find my Iphone app and saw him go out to dinner and then back to a townhouse where he stayed the whole night and when to work from in the morning. I noted the address, but wasn't planning to say anything. That next morning he texted me about how the cats slept on the bed with him and all this BS; just offered this up without any need. I was furious that he was lying yet again!! I mean what the H*LL!! Nothing needed to be said, but yet he went out of his way to lie.

I confronted him about it later that week when he was finally home, saying I knew he was not home that night because our neighbor said his car wasn't there when they got in after midnight. He swore up and down he was home! Then I said well I saw a charge for a restaurant an hour from our house - he said he went there alone. Really?? And spent $40? So stupid. I still didn't know who the person was... I was so livid that I said I wanted the papers signed immediately, so we met that afternoon and got them signed and notarized. 

So I was watching our phone bill just for curiosity and saw a number I didn't recognize call late at night while he was at work and 30 minutes of chat time. I looked the number up on FB and found a woman's name, she is 52 (I'm 36 and he's 41) so I was a bit confused... then I looked her up on White Pages and sure enough, the address matched where he was that Friday night. I told my best friend and she became very silent...

She said that she knew of this person many years ago (7-8?) because her husband had introduced them at a party which I recall them going to and I was mad they stayed out til 3am... anyway, apparently there were rumors that they were involved at that time but no proof. She went home and asked her husband who said he thought that my husband was stopping at this lady's house after work in the morning (shift work, gets off 7am)... so I didn't even know what to make of this, it was like Groundhog Day all over again. I confronted him about this and of course he denied it also. But it's funny that 2 weeks after you beg me to stay, you're in bed with a woman you apparently were involved with 7-8 years ago?? And you want be to believe you had no contact with her since then but dating 2 weeks after you appealed to me and begged me to stay? Oh brother. 

I KNEW there was more to it and thank god this has given me the strength and anger to be done with him. I am so hurt and angry that he has done all this to me.  It explains why he wasn't interested in sex though! God knows how many more there really were! 

But guess what, it's OVER FOR GOOD!!! :smthumbup:


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