# Need Advice To Save Marriage



## tklaw82 (Aug 14, 2008)

My name is Stephen and I’m here seeking advice to try to save my marriage or to see what I should do if that won’t work. I'll start by stating that I know I am not a saint but that I try my hardest to be a good man to my wife and children. I don't drink, smoke, or do drugs. I don't work more than my forty hours a week. When I'm not taking care of the house I am spending every moment with my wife and kids. And I love my kids more than anything else in my life...but that is where the problem stems. She feels that absolutely nothing more than I love her.

Here is my back story. My wife and I met in high school and had a pretty good relationship. We got married at the age of 21 and moved into an apartment together right after. This is where things started to get ugly. We have been married for four years have have been fighting constantly about pretty much anything. Even after we had our children (six months old right now), we still fight, sometimes even worse than before.

First Example Of Issues
We had one instance where she finished a piece of homework (she was in her last year of college getting an art degree) at around midnight and had accidentally gotten something on it. In a fit and not thinking, she grabbed the Mr. Clean sponge instead of the normal one and ended up erasing a portion of the picture which of course ruined it. She threw a larger fit and said that it needed to be reprinted right then but the nearest place to reprint it was an hour away. I had work the next day at around six in the morning so I told her that it would have to wait for the morning. She went into a rage and ran out the door and returned twenty minutes later saying that she was waiting in the car and "How dare I let her go out that late by herself!" She proceded to slap me and drag me to the printing store. By the whole time all was said and done, it was 3:30 AM by the time we got back, fighting the whole time.

Second Example Of Issues
My best friend and best man from our wedding had his mother pass away a little after our wedding and had come over to be comforted. My wife not feeling very sympathetic decided to tell him that his mother was with him. He said of course she was. But then she proceeded to tell him that "No, she is standing right behind you". This sent my already distressed friend over the edge. Long story short, they ended up fighting and he ended up calling her "crazy". I really thought she got off lucky because I could have thought of a couple hundred other things he could have said that would have been justified. I ended up taking his side on that one because I thought she did something that was totally uncalled for. Then we fought, her argument being that if I truly loved her, I would take her side no matter what.

Current (Yesterday)
These were issue that happened towards the beginning of our marriage. Four years in, not much has changed. We recently went to my Grandmothers birthday. My aunt (not blood related) has personal issues with my wife and decided to totally ignore her. After the party, my wife breaks down saying that she was "walked all over" and that "she will never be put through that again". She then proceeded to tell me that we (including me) are to never see her again, no matter the event. So, if we were to get together for Thanksgiving with the whole family, we will not go if my aunt is there. I proceeded to make a compromising saying that I will then go by myself for a hour or two to these events as they are important to me. She then told me that if I leave for even a minute on the holidays, she would make everybody’s lives a living hell and make sure that our children remember how horrible the holidays were. I was told that if I loved her, I would do as she asked. If she told me to never see my family again, I should love her enough to say okay.

The examples can go on and on. All in all, my main fear is that my wife is so controlling she can actually get physically violent if she does not get her way. If I don't do something she "asks" me to do, my stuff is threatened. I know it isn't an empty threat as I have had one of my laptops thrown down the stairs in one of these fits. I've actually had her come at me with fists. I'm really afraid if this is how she acts when I "defy" her, how will she treat our children? I know that divorce is not the greatest option (especially for children) but I'm not sure if I want my children growing up in this kind of environment. 

I probably sound like I am all over the place. It's because I am. I don't know what to do. What should I do? Should we attempt marriage counseling? Should I be looking up my rights if it comes as far as a divorce? I don't know...maybe somebody else out there has gone through the same thing. 

Thanks for reading this huge chunk of text and thanks in advance for any responses.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

I know you want to save our marriage but you have a wife that is physically, mentally, verbally abusive and has control issues. Why would you allow our kids to be in a household with her?

draconis


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Your wife is selfish, controlling and out of control. Yes you should be supporting of her on issues but not at the cost of your own beliefs and wishes. Should you get counseling as a couple? Absolutely. She also needs to get counseling for anger management. Physical violence and property destroying tantrums is not normal behavior. She is controlling you through fear, anger, revenge and guilt. You need to get this under control if you are ever to by happy with her. Bravo for taking the children into consideration and the long term effects this may have on them. Get in touch with a counselor that you feel comfortable with and when you are ready to move forward tell your wife that counseling is the only way the two of you can move forward. Be prepared, she will likely resist. If she refuses, then look at your options in divorce.


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## tklaw82 (Aug 14, 2008)

draconis said:


> I know you want to save our marriage but you have a wife that is physically, mentally, verbally abusive and has control issues. Why would you allow our kids to be in a household with her?
> 
> draconis


Sadly, up until this point in our marriage, I have just let her walk all over me. It had always been my goal in life to be a good husband but I've noticed that the good and patient person I used to be is gone. I've finally decided to stand up for myself and things have gotten much worse.

Your right, my children should be around that. My concern is that I am unsure of how the custody of the children would work out if we did end the marriage. The plus side for me is that they are only biologically mine, we had to get a donor for the eggs. 

I guess my question is, what should I do legally to prepare myself for something like this? Would counseling help in showing her issues? Would that help me in a custody battle?

All I really know is if I hear "If you loved me you would do <fill in the blank>", I'm going to go nuts.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

You should be able to get some ideas on your rights as a father with a couple of Googles for divorce in your state. Also many attorneys will grant a first time visit for free to discuss your options. If you expect a custody battle begin a journal immediately to document:

Your time with the kids

Her bazaar behavior

Any instances of violence

Good luck.


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## KittyKat (May 11, 2008)

I agree with Amplexor. DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT. And having gone through, and still going through, a relationship like yours, yes, your wife is selfish and spoiled.


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

im sorry here. but i dont think your wife is bizarre.
she is however very stressed. 
your also very against her and not working enough in tune with her.
your first issue , and i have done this. something i worked hard on , accidentally got ruined, it was important to me and i had a worse rage than b 4.
by letting you know you shouldnt av let her go out late - is a sign , she wants you to fight for her and make her secure.
the second issue - dont ever put your mate over your wife. 
but thats what you did - wrong move .
again where are you - your not there for her.
i have auras myself and i see dead ppl. she isnt crazy. she actually was being sympathetic - you just dont understand her.
and as for your current issue- where were you again.
you did not support her. she felt walked over .
yet you unrelated aunt ( you put her first ) over your wife.
why should she be made uncomfortable. 
i see elements of you and your situation in my hubby. 
i think you have to look at yourself.
i bet you, if you said to your wife - " look love - your right , actually on a couple of things, she would be different and calmer.
i wouldnt woory about the kids - she is a good mother.
why dont you support her , rather than criticise her.
take a back seat . your actually pushing her away , not the other way around.


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## tklaw82 (Aug 14, 2008)

justean said:


> why dont you support her , rather than criticise her.
> take a back seat . your actually pushing her away , not the other way around.


I'm sorry but I'm going to have to completely disagree. I have made the biggest effort to support her in every way. I've given up on making friends, do no activities outside of work and staying home, and sometimes neglect work and family. I have even spent weeks at a time in a hospital sitting by her bedside (at least on five different occasions) while giving up my personal duties. I've made every effort to try and see things from her side and do what’s best for our marriage. The truth is, this is a very one sided marriage.

I found this the other day which completely states how she acts and what I feel: "Persons trying to manipulate others often attach conditions to their expressions of love. A common expression heard in relationships that are in trouble is, "If you loved me, you would do such and such." The person making that statement is trying to manipulate the other person. He or she is using guilt to control and change the actions of the other person. Their thoughts are strongly centered on themselves."

Like I said, I know I'm not innocent in this either. I am probably the main reason for all of these problems because I allowed her to treat me this way from the beginning. So when I actually do stand up for myself, it probably seems like I am a different person and trying to create conflict. 



justean said:


> and as for your current issue- where were you again.
> you did not support her. she felt walked over .
> yet you unrelated aunt ( you put her first ) over your wife.
> why should she be made uncomfortable.
> ...


As for this, I did take my wife’s side as I let her know that my aunt is a complete witch. But what is it going to teach our children when every time somebody ignores you need to throw a fit and feel "walked over on". Those type of people aren't even worth wasting a second thought on. But instead, she decided that it was necessary to punish my whole family because of my aunts actions. She decided it was necessary to tell that I am not to see my family again and "If I loved her" I would follow that command. That to me is not love.

On that note, I have talked with her and told her the necessity of marriage counseling. She has agreed to thus far. We are going to try and keep and open mind about the whole thing and see what can be salvaged.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I'm glad she's open to marriage counseling. From what you've stated, it really sounds as though she needs individual counseling, but I'm sure from your standpoint that may be received as the problem is her and make things worse. Hopefully the marriage counselor will spend time with her individually and suggest that.

I think sometimes when you meet and marry young, your relationship develops when you are not fully mature and the stage is set at that point so to speak so it's difficult to change how you relate to one another. I don't think it's impossible, but at this point she needs to figure out where her anger comes from and deal with that because if she is not happy with herself, she can't possibly extend it to others.


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

draconis said:


> I know you want to save our marriage but you have a wife that is physically, mentally, verbally abusive and has control issues. Why would you allow our kids to be in a household with her?
> 
> draconis


you should be a little less judgemental with the guy. He sounds like a real sincere guy who is doing his best in a trying situation. It's really easy to give this type of advice but people in abusive or borderline abusive situations dont need this type of useless advice.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

OK, when someone brings up seeing dead people behind a grieving person, that is just too out there for comment. Other than to say that most people when encountering such a comment would consider the source.

Your wife, as you describe her, has some problems for sure. But you do not have to explain her actions to anyone, nor do you really have to defend them either.

I notice that you don't state that you need her to defend any of your actions to the rest of your family and friends.

Do you know why that is? I think I do. 

Your actions are rational and people can see the thread of thinking that goes into it.

Your wife's actions?

Irrational.

I can see her being upset about ruining her artwork, but why do you have to go in the car with her to make a copy?

And for her to slap you over it?

Hello? If a man did that to his wife everyone would be telling you to report her to the police.

A man is not prepared for a violent wife. The vast majority of us do not hit our wives, no matter what. Even when provoked.

The troubles your wife have go beyond what is handled in marriage counseling. That will be a good start, but she may need more intensive professional help on her own.

I agree with the earlier poster who said to bring up the violent temper, bizarre behavior, etc. to a counselor.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

brad said:


> you should be a little less judgemental with the guy. He sounds like a real sincere guy who is doing his best in a trying situation. It's really easy to give this type of advice but people in abusive or borderline abusive situations dont need this type of useless advice.


If the roles were reversed and a guy was doing this to a woman everyone on this forum would be telling her to get out, not to understand him or love him more. It is sexiest to say it one way for a woman (get out) While telling a guy going through the same thing to (deal with it). My opinion is just that. I look at the issue reguardless of what gender presents it.

I really feel for this guy and think he is best served outside the marriage. He doesn't deserve this. Counciling, and anger management might help her if she is up for it but I doubt she is.

In todays day and age we still have a long way to go. Imagine a guy punching his wife, destroying her property, Taking away friends and family, threatening to lie ect. Not to many people would be telling her to stay and deal with it. Why should he?

I agree that he needs to document everything and keep it in a secure spot away from her. Counciling records will help. He can contact the Bar Association of his state for a lawyer referal and to find out if there are other free services to help legaly. 

As I said it is only my opinion, and you have the right to yours. 

draconis


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Good points Drac!


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

draconis said:


> If the roles were reversed and a guy was doing this to a woman everyone on this forum would be telling her to get out, not to understand him or love him more. It is sexiest to say it one way for a woman (get out) While telling a guy going through the same thing to (deal with it). My opinion is just that. I look at the issue reguardless of what gender presents it.
> 
> I really feel for this guy and think he is best served outside the marriage. He doesn't deserve this. Counciling, and anger management might help her if she is up for it but I doubt she is.
> 
> ...


If the roles were reversed it still would be harsh and judgemental. People who are abused and told to "get out" are being told the obvious. But it's never that easy. Their are kids, finances and other factors to consider. Their are reasons abused people stay with their abusers. It doesnt make it the right thing to do but its a complex problem not solved by telling them "just leave".

And this guy is doing his best to work things out. I personally think his wife is a nutcase but they have a kid and he loves her. It's at least worth taking time to work things out.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

brad said:


> If the roles were reversed it still would be harsh and judgemental. People who are abused and told to "get out" are being told the obvious. But it's never that easy. Their are kids, finances and other factors to consider. Their are reasons abused people stay with their abusers. It doesnt make it the right thing to do but its a complex problem not solved by telling them "just leave".


Funny thing is you have given the same advice, the same way.



> Very clear cut. Your marriage was based on lies (from him). If anyone should ever move on it's you. One of the worst things I have ever read on here. It sounds like you deserve a much better life. Being alone really is not so bad. Sometimes people dont realize it until they leave. Then they say "how could I have stayed in that situation". The reason is because it's your current reality and your trying to make the best of it.
> 
> good luck.


Which is my point.

draconis


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

draconis said:


> Funny thing is you have given the same advice, the same way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's very clever of you. But we are talking about abuse not just a bad marriage. Big difference if you can acertain that.


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

i wil take a back seat then and admit , things sound more than what i felt from your thread.
i deeply apologise .
but again ppl have different views. we dont live eachothers lives.
i am grateful that you responded the way u did. 
i hope things work out. i really do.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

tklaw82 said:


> She then told me that if I leave for even a minute on the holidays, she would make everybody’s lives a living hell and make sure that our children remember how horrible the holidays were.


As far as I am concerned, that statement is proof that she is controlling to the point that she threatens to make the children suffer in order to get what she wants.

On the point that brad and draconis seem to be a loggerheads over, concerning domestic violence and gender, I have a story. I had a gf who used to punch me. Sometimes I would hold her wrists, sometimes I just let her hit me, I never felt too worried because I was stronger than her. So for me, the fighting was optional.

Usually the man is stronger than the woman. Unless she arms herself with knives, rolling pins or crockery, a man can just get up and walk out the door, even while he is still being hit.

So whereas, such a man might choose to stay, and try to get his wife to seek help, a woman is best advised to leave before she get physically damaged. So that is why I am against being PC! It covers up the practical issues. Men and women are equal, but not in the same areas. On average, men are superior physically, women are superior sexually, to name just two areas.

I do worry that this woman might up the ante and use a knife. I think this is a very serious situation. Having not been firm with her thus far, you are going to seem like a changed man. I would proceed with caution, but firmness is the answer I believe - whether you stay or leave.


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## pshalom (Aug 16, 2008)

Stephen,

Since your wife has agreed to go for marriage counseling, you should start there. She seems, among other things, to be suffering from low self-esteem. She is very unsure of herself. Even though you love her, she feels neglected. That's why she is forcing you to choose between her and your family (and friends). 
The earlier you seek for help, the better. Your marriage counselor may first see you separately and then together. That way it will be easier for the counselor to assess the root cause of the problem. If you see the counselor together (initially), your wife may not be open to discuss the problem - she may feel both of you are blaming her and then she would hit the roof and there would be no progress.

All the best,
pshalom


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

pshalom-
Good point about going separately, and then together.

I feel that some of her gripes are justified, it's just that her reactions are way way over the top. Maybe she felt helpless as a child - just a guess. she has no idea about how to negotiate. she just "throws her toys out of the cot" as we say in the UK!


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

I agree with the suggestion of counciling.

Brad, MT If you wish to debate this then lets find a seperate thread to discuss this.

draconis


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