# Am I Cheating?



## justanaveragejoe (Sep 21, 2012)

i will try to keep this as short as possible,

i moved in with my fiance about 2 years ago (been together for 5 total), we are both happy in the relationship, she lived about 70 mins away from me, so i do not really know anybody here except for her family, i dont have many friends to begin with though,

once every 7-10 days i go to a local pub for some "me time" or "down time", my fiance knows about this, it is a friendly place where pretty much all the regulars are known, i started as an outsider i guess, but still felt welcomed,

i go at a time when it is not busy, i read the paper, watch a bit of tv, and have a few beers and leave, if the bartender talks to me, i will carry on the conversation, but i rarely start a conversation on my own,

over the course of a year or so i have gotten friendly with the regular bartender, she is my age and happily married, and we just chat about everyday life in general, just like buddies would,

i went in a sports pool there once and she asked for my number so she could let me know if i won it, so we exchanged numbers,

we now text a few times a week, nothing sexual of the sort, just friendly chat like i would talk to a buddy,

the other day she text me and said she is bored at work, so i asked if she wanted some company, (fiance was at work) she said yes, so i went in and chatted for awhile over a few beers,

is what im doing wrong? is it cheating?


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Ugh, tough call. Are you hiding any of this from your fiance? What about the bartender. Is she hiding it from he husband? If the answer is yes, then I'd have to say it's a betrayal on that level, although not really cheating, per se...


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

That being said, though, you really should dispense with the texting....


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## Wrongdoer (Aug 2, 2012)

Not yet, but your on a dangerous path, I doubt your fiancé would be happy with you texting another women


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## Viseral (Feb 25, 2011)

You're on a slippery slope. This could easily turn into an EA for the both of you. Best to cut it off. If the bartender asks why just tell her the truth. And if your wife gets wind of it, tell her the truth too.


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## MYM1430 (Nov 7, 2011)

Is anyone (besides your own conscience) suspicious that you are cheating? If not, then you are searching for an answer you already know the answer to. Faithfulness is a product of your own heart when it is undivided in its affections. Unfaithfulness is the result of a divided heart. Is your heart divided between your finace and this other woman?


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

Wrongdoer said:


> Not yet, but your on a dangerous path, I doubt your fiancé would be happy with you texting another women


Yes. Knock that off. Next thing she's going to send you a flirty text and your fiance will see it and you'll be in deep sh*t.

It feels good to have an attractive woman express interest. It happens. Just don't make the mistake of responding with interest. That's where you get in trouble. And guess what, you still got the ego boost.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

If you have to ask, you know its not what you should be doing.
How would you feel about your finance in a similar relationship? Would it irk you? Even if you trust her? You are going to this woman to fill the gap left by the physical absence of your fiance. Having friends is perfectly fine, but you are crossing the line and you know it.


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## JoyfulHeart (Jun 12, 2012)

You are treading in dangerous waters.

If your fiance doesn't know about the constant communication and the other woman's husband is also not informed, it is betrayal. Granted, you two are only speaking friendly, but isn't that how it all starts? I would stop the texting right now. She asks why, tell her you don't want to risk this becoming more. If she insists, you know darn straight it was going to turn out bad. Not saying change pubs, but find a male buddy to go there with you rather than you alone.

Careful where you tread. Before you know it, something might happen and then you will have to swim for your life.


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## DT4379 (Sep 21, 2012)

what is wrong with you? You are definately flirting with disater and to be homest if you feel you need to flirt with another women then maybe you need to break off the wedding


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Does your fiancee know everything you told us here?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

justanaveragejoe said:


> we now text a few times a week, nothing sexual of the sort, just friendly chat like i would talk to a buddy,
> 
> *the other day she text me and said she is bored at work, so i asked if she wanted some company, (fiance was at work) she said yes, so i went in and chatted for awhile over a few beers*,
> 
> is what im doing wrong? is it cheating?


You are crossing the line. It's a slippery slope.

I always say: do the Flip Test.

How would you feel if your fiance were doing this? Goes to a bar regularly, chats up the regular male bartender, starts shooting pool with him, he asks for her #, now they are texting weekly and he's telling her he's bored at work, she asks if he wants company, he says yes, and she goes to hang out with him and "chat for awhile over a few beers."

Again, how would you feel if your fiance were doing this?

Answer that honestly and you have your answer.


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## justanaveragejoe (Sep 21, 2012)

DT4379 said:


> if you feel you need to flirt with another women then maybe you need to break off the wedding


i am not flirting with another woman, or anybody for that matter, where did you read that?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

How would you feel if your fiance were doing this with a man?


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## DT4379 (Sep 21, 2012)

sorry he semmed to me that this is really the start of an ea if oyure not careful..Please stop it before your hurt your finace


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

justanaveragejoe said:


> i am not flirting with another woman, or anybody for that matter, where did you read that?


Fair enough but maybe she is flirting with you?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> How would you feel if your fiance were doing this with a man?


It's amazing how much trouble you can avoid by just flipping it.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

I hope for your sake that this girl's H is not some big man ready to knock your head off faster then an Irish boxer drinks after his match.

Really it is wrong. Why is she using your number when she wanted it to call you if you won or not? No no she never got it for that reason and you never gave it for that reason. You both want to justify your actions and play it like it is nothing.

I hope that you stop this right now before you all end up hurt.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

is she hot? then yes if she ulgy then no. LOL


probably not to smart ask you girl if she minds.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

Men's friendships with women 'driven by sexual attraction' - Telegraph

You're going to begin an affair if you keep talking to this chick. I just learned this the hard way.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

As long as you are not hiding it, no


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> probably not to smart ask you girl if she minds.


Oh reaaaaally?

And why is that, Chilly?

Could it be because he suspects his fiance will be upset by this situation & would, in fact, mind?

And why would that be exactly?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

IF you feel comfortable letting your wife in on these texts thats the only way...otherwise you are cheating. EA.

My wife did this crap. Still does but at least I know about it and they both know I know so its under control. Toned way down. Slippery slope get ur wife involved now... or stop.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

*You've got to be kidding me...... * This is so ridiculous, but you asked if it is or is not cheating. 

As much as you would like to see her naked, it ain't gonna happen. Here's why......

This bartender is what is known as a "heavy hitter" or "showgirl". Her job is to flirt with men and make money for the bar. That's it! She flirts with you and entices you to come down to the bar when there is a slow night. 

I've seen the same "come talk to me I'm bored. Pay attention to meeeee" attitude from topless bartenders and totally nude strippers I've gotten numbers from. It is the oldest game they know and makes you the fool. Here's the golden rule: anytime you have to pay for their attention, they are not your friends and you're just a sucker to them.

In fact you've got less of a shot with this woman than you do meeting another girl you've held the door open for. This woman sees you as a drunken customer who's only interested in her because whatever flirting tricks she's pulled have worked. But on the other end of this threeway you're flirting with danger. Your fiance is probably just as nervous about marriage and all it will take is one giant screw up to chase her away.... like a halfnaked "friend" sending you a flirty shot for the first time that night your fiance answers the text. Don't be "that guy"!

Take some sound advice and grow yourself some big brass balls. If you feel you could plow this other woman behind your girlfriend's back you either A) stop going to that bar, or B) bring your little woman along and introduce the two. If your woman doesn't like her then you stop going to that bar. You can still make female friends but don't get their numbers and keep it from your future wife and don't meet them alone, especially if you are or plan to be intoxicated. Simple as that! You're better off thinking ahead and KNOWING you can't get away with it.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Justaveragejoe
Did you miss jellybeans question (see reprint below) or did you ignore it because you do not want to answer?




> *By Jellybeans
> How would you feel if your fiance were doing this with a man? *


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## justanaveragejoe (Sep 21, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> *You've got to be kidding me...... * This is so ridiculous, but you asked if it is or is not cheating.
> 
> As much as you would like to see her naked, it ain't gonna happen. Here's why......
> 
> ...


huh?

im seriously scratching my head while reading this,

i have absolutely no idea where you got any of this from, are you sure you are replying to the correct thread? because none of what your saying is relevant to my situation,

where did i say i wanted to see her naked? i didnt, and i dont

where did i say there was flirting involved? i didnt and there is no flirting in either direction

i am not paying anybody for their attention, im paying for the beer i drink, im not buying her anything

where did i say i want "a shot" with this woman? i didnt, and do not,

you are assuming many things here, and none of them are true


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## justanaveragejoe (Sep 21, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> Justaveragejoe
> Did you miss jellybeans question (see reprint below) or did you ignore it because you do not want to answer?


im not ignoring anything, im not on this site everyday, but to answer the question, i would be fine with it if they were only friends and there was no flirting involved


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## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

if the tables were turned and you were asking us about your wife and a male bartender, we'd all probably tell you they had beers and a side of sex. Nsweet is just describing the difference between a male bartender and a female one (Biiiiig difference). so yea, knock it off.


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## ubercoolpanda (Sep 11, 2012)

Well do you have feelings for her? That's the main question. 
If its a YES- then yeah, I would say you need to distance yourself from her. Find a different bar to go to, otherwise your feelings will get stronger and things will just get complicated. 
If you don't have feelings for her nor her have feelings for you then I don't see why you can't be friends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Readytogo (Jul 11, 2012)

share the text messages with your fiance, and invite her to go to the pub with you.
Keep it open and honest. Don't start keeping secrets from her.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

Stop with the texting and offering to "keep the bartender company". You're on a very slippery slope, as others have mentioned. Before you know it, you'll be talking too much about each others' lives and it's downhill from there. I seriously doubt that you'd like your fiance texting and keeping company with a male bartender for any reason. 

Knock it off and direct the energy that you're spending on the bartender towards your fiance. Text your fiance when you're not around, even just to say 'hi'. I'm sure she'll appreciate that.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

I'm not saying you can't make friends with the bartender, but someone else had a good point earlier. They're there to make money for the bar (and tips for themselves).

When I used to frequent the downtown bar scene, I always got sh!t service from the females. Leaning over with their cleavage doesn't do much for me.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Maybe it didn't start out wrong on purpose. But sure if you have this little sense of guilt then you clearly know it's become inappropriate.

Maybe you posted this question fishing for answers just in case someone can ease your conscience. Unfortunately it is what you think it is. The beginner of an EA if it continues.


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## justanaveragejoe (Sep 21, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> But sure if you have this little sense of guilt then you clearly know it's become inappropriate.


i do not have a "little sense of guilt"

why does everybody keep assuming things here? :scratchhead:


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Does your wife know anything about your communication with her?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

In my opinion, your "borderlining" it! I would recommend your telling your fiance' ASAP because you wouldn't want her finding out about it from some other 3rd party.

There not being anything positive in this for you or your fiance,' I'd fastly nip this thing in the bud and start exclusively living for the betterment of both you and your fiance'.


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## justanaveragejoe (Sep 21, 2012)

tm84 said:


> Stop with the texting and offering to "keep the bartender company"


im not going to the bar to "keep her company", im going to the bar because i feel like going there, its irrelevant wether she is there or not,

i know the days she works, sometimes i go there when she is not working, so im not going there to see her, im going there because i WANT to go there, and feel like going there on any specific day, regardless of who is working,


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## justanaveragejoe (Sep 21, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> There not being anything positive in this for you or your fiance,'


yes there is something positive, the positive is having a FRIEND to talk to in a town where i do not know anybody, thats a positive in my opinion


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

No, it is not cheating,,,,, yet.... if you continue , and hide it from your fiance,,, then it will be.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Sometimes on this board if a woman says 'hello' to you and you don't immediately write her a NC letter and move to Canada you are being unfaithful. 

Having said that why exactly did you post this question?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

justanaveragejoe said:


> i do not have a "little sense of guilt"
> 
> why does everybody keep assuming things here? :scratchhead:


Well because you post the question "Am I Cheating?" on a marriage forum and layout a scenario that many feel is inappropriate so therefore many (me at least) project that a twinge of guilt motivated you ask ask the question. Would you prefer that we require you to provide a short story including every detail?

Okay, if you are merely asking the question because you want to know if we think you should feel guilty or whatever the reason then the proper response is "Thundarr, I actually don't feel guilty. I'm asking the question because ......".

Or you could ask a question and continue to slam answers. Since we're obviously here just to jump on you.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

justanaveragejoe said:


> yes there is something positive, the positive is having a FRIEND to talk to in a town where i do not know anybody, thats a positive in my opinion


Collectively speaking, there is nothing in this for your fiance's benefit other than potential worry and fear. You are the only one benefitting, unless you can specify one particular benefit that your fiance' might derive from your relationship with this "friend."


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

justanaveragejoe said:


> yes there is something positive, the positive is having a FRIEND to talk to in a town where i do not know anybody, thats a positive in my opinion



You need to find a male friend.... JMO


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## justanaveragejoe (Sep 21, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> Sometimes on this board if a woman says 'hello' to you and you don't immediately write her a NC letter and move to Canada you are being unfaithful.


yes it seems that way to me too,

guilty of cheating till proven innocent it seems :scratchhead:


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## justanaveragejoe (Sep 21, 2012)

Numb in Ohio said:


> You need to find a male friend.... JMO


but why should that matter?

are you saying men and women can not be just friends?

that seems irrational to me


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Emerald said:


> Does your fiancee know everything you told us here?


????


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

justanaveragejoe said:


> yes it seems that way to me too,
> 
> guilty of cheating till proven innocent it seems :scratchhead:


But you ignored the second half of my question. You posted this question here for a reason, what is that reason?


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## justanaveragejoe (Sep 21, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> You posted this question here for a reason, what is that reason?


to get neutral opinions about the situation at hand, is that not the purpose of this forum? please correct me if i am wrong?


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

justanaveragejoe said:


> but why should that matter?
> 
> are you saying men and women can not be just friends?
> 
> that seems irrational to me


If you are looking for rationality, human relationships is the wrong area to be looking.

Men's friendships with women 'driven by sexual attraction' - Telegraph


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

justanaveragejoe said:


> to get neutral opinions about the situation at hand, is that not the purpose of this forum? please correct me if i am wrong?


But why do you need an opinion on this? Has your fiancé objected?


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

You have not answered the main question...

"DOES YOUR FIANCE KNOW YOU ARE HAVING THIS "FRIENDSHIP" WITH THIS WOMAN" ????????????

If she does,, and she doesn't have a problem with it,, then you have your answer.... if she doesn't know, then you need to ask her if SHE would consider it cheating,, and go from there.


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## loz (Sep 23, 2012)

For what it's worth, I suggest you ask yourself these questions:

1, If there was a camera filming your interactions with this woman, and it fell in to the hands of your fiance, would you be comfortable with that?
2, Would you be willing to take your fiance to the bar and how do you think she and the bartender would get along?
3, Are you sexually attracted to this woman?

Also keen to know if your fiance knows about your friendship.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Does you fiance know about this bartender?

That you've got each others number?

Does she know the two of you text?

Doe she know the bartender can text you that she's bored and you'll change your plans and go into the pub to keep her company?

Is your fiance invited to join you if she wishes?

If the answer is yes to those questions I don't believe you've stepped over any boundaries...yet.

Be open and honest and faithful.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Originally Posted by Emerald
> Does your fiancee know everything you told us here?
> ????


*Why did you ignore this question that has been asked twice?*

Don’t give me the excuse that you do not read this board everyday; I know you have seen this post.


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

Joe: I understand you are wary, and the objective of the questions is to help you figure it out. My wife's affair began when it went beyond a friendly face. They met at a Gym, He gave her advice about running shoes, then they talked about running, ran together, stopped for lunch after a run,he invited her to come listen to his band, and then it went physical.
But it began with friendly talk about running shoes between two people with a shared interest. All she started out to do was lose a little weight.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

justanaveragejoe said:


> is what im doing wrong? is it cheating?


From what you have described, I'd say no. I suspect, though, that there is more to it than what you've have described, at least somewhere in the very back of your mind. The question of whether or not your fiance knows about your friend is especially relevant. If you are hiding this friendship from your fiance, then the friendship has the potential of destroying the relationship you have with your fiance, in which case, it should be on the outside of the boundary line of propriety.

However, you're here on a marriage and relationship forum asking this question and listing some possible reasons that people might consider inappropriate. You've made friends with an attractive (I'm assuming), mostly unattainable (as she is married) person of the opposite sex; the relationship has escalated from just seeing each other around to meeting each other; in addition, it has escalated to the frequent interaction of texts a few times a day. Additionally, you see this person when your fiance is not around and you are feeling vaguely guilty or uncertain about the rightness of your actions. That is a lot of energy to be putting into a friendship. 

Do you treat your guy friends this way? 
Do you feel guilty when you hang out with them or hide the info that you've hung out with them?
Do you treat your sisters this way, if you have any?

I'm not going to say that all friends of the opposite sex will kill your marriage. However, you ask this question because something feels a bit off to you. Maybe you realize you're investing a lot of time here. Maybe you're looking forward to chatting with her or hanging out with her or seeing her. Maybe you think about her more often than you expect to. Maybe you don't even admit this to yourself.

Can you go a solid week without interacting with her? No contact at all? Does this bother or upset you? If you can't go a week without talking to her, you're getting yourself into an infatuation and that leads to a kind of friendship that is leeching the intimacy out of your actual romantic relationship, meaning you've got to dump the hot bartender you've kinda got a crush on. Of course, if she really is just one of your buds, then I'm assuming your GF knows all about this friendship, or that she's going to very very soon so that you don't get yourself into a nasty situation with her potential justifiable jealousy.


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## Ryan33 (Sep 24, 2012)

If you didn't have a sense of guilt, I don't think you would have posted this question here. On top of that, it seems like you want everyone here to say it's okay, and you get defensive when they don't agree with it.

I am not the best boyfriend, but I have a girl that is a friend, and my girlfriend knows about her. We don't hang out regularly, and when we do it's a group of friends. But we will text regularly.

If I did it behind her back, she'd definitely be pissed. In fact, I'm not even sure how she's okay with it lol. I think because the girl is friendly with her, and she knows her, she is fine with it. People here are saying tell your fiance about it, but I really don't see a way to explain it to her that she's going to be okay with it. She's going to be pissed off about it anyway you put it, imo.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

justanaveragejoe said:


> im not going to the bar to "keep her company", im going to the bar because i feel like going there, its irrelevant wether she is there or not,



Not true. Not entirely, anyway. You did say that you went there to keep her company, but now that you don't like what people are extrapolating, you are justifying things, defensively. You wrote in your original post,



justanaveragejoe said:


> _"the other day she text me and said she is bored at work, so i asked if she wanted some company, (fiance was at work) she said yes, so i went in and chatted for awhile over a few beers,"_


It is evident that, you going to the bar that day was, in this instance, initiated by her invitation. She contacted you and said she was bored. You offered to fill the hole of her boredom with your bodily presence. You didn't continue to text or offer a suggestion of how she might entertain herself, you offered to jump on in. You noticed that your fiance was not around and you offered yourself in service to alleviate this bartender's unmet social/entertainment needs by giving her your company. When she accepted your offer, you went over to the bar and hung out with her.

You did not simply go there and have some beers. Her presence there was not irrelevant to your choice to go there simply because your actions were directly influenced by her text message indicating that she was there and hinting that she maybe wanted you to join her. No, you didn't seek her out and ask her on a date, but you jumped at the chance to offer yourself to her and you spent time doing what lots of people do on dates -- chatting and drinking beer just because they wanted to get together and hang out.

The way you phrased this event is sequential and it is connected..."This happened, so this happened, so this happened"...and you are connecting the chain of events as you recount the incident; your syntax suggests that in your memory's logic itself, these events were linked rather than just happenstance.

Stop going on the defensive. Calm down. No one said you were being a cad on purpose. Just admit to yourself that you didn't just manage to show up there and her presence was not a factor at all; her presence was a factor, in this instance.



justanaveragejoe said:


> i know the days she works, sometimes i go there when she is not working, so im not going there to see her, im going there because i WANT to go there, and feel like going there on any specific day, regardless of who is working,


You know what days she works? Do you know the schedules of your other buddies? This is a lot of info to know about a casual acquaintance.

You may well go to this bar just because you like going to this bar. However, you ALSO did, at least on one occasion, change your plans on the spot to go and meet her, and you essentially offered yourself as her on-call entertainment (with your company). 

You go there because you want to go there. Sometimes, you go there because you want to go there to see her -- when your GF isn't around.


The function of the hot bartender is to lure guys and girls to come in, just like the function of the hot cosmetics and perfume counter girls is to draw men and women to the counter. Don't get lured in to the point that you lose your GF. Or, better yet -- go for it, no holds barred, because if you're not the kind of guy that's likely to protect his relationship from possible harm just because your ego is in the way and you kinda like the attention on the sly (as your defensive tone in response to the objective opinions of anonymous forum users suggests), then you're probably not as ready for marriage as you think you are. Honesty is important and walking as close as you can to the edge of infidelity without getting burned will eventually demonstrate to your partner that you are reckless and untrustworthy. Men and women can be friends, even when they aren't married to each other -- but they have to be mature, honest, and trustworthy for that to be a workable situation that causes no one pain; that means they have to be willing to protect what's valuable and if your relationship with your GF is valuable to you, then you should protect it by not letting yourself get infatuated with the bartender, by introducing your GF to her, and by having a conversation with your GF about what kind of boundaries you two expect in marriage.


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## Kylie84 (May 4, 2012)

TROLL!
Anyone else get this feeling?


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

I don't, I think he is just trying to convince himself that it is all innocent, when in his heart of hearts he knows it's not. He reacted with anger and defensiveness which is typical of those cheating or thinking about it, even if it is subconscious.

I hope he finds the strength to avoid this one.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

OP, your responses sound as if you are very sure that there is nothing inappropriate about what's going on. You've also avoided answering any questions of whether or not your fiance knows.

My guess is your fiance found out and flipped (probably accused you of cheating) & you came here to prove it's innocent. Show her everyone agrees there's nothing wrong with what you're doing. You seem pretty defensive that there is nothing wrong with this friendship, regardless of what people are warning you about.

I'm assuming all this from your posts and the fact that you asked if it's cheating and seem adamant that their is nothing wrong with what your doing. You seem to have no doubt that its not cheating so why bother posting if not to prove a point to your fiance? Correct me if I'm wrong.

IF this is the case, and it's your fiance that has a problem with this friendship then that puts a whole new spin on things. Your relationship with your fiance and her feelings should come before any other relationship, especially with another woman. Choosing a friendship with another woman over your fiances objections would be a very bad sign that this has gone too far.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Ryan33 said:


> If* you didn't have a sense of guilt, I don't think you would have posted this question here.* On top of that, it seems like you want everyone here to say it's okay, and you get defensive when they don't agree with it.


Bingo. Plus, the thread title... if you are even wondering if it's cheating then...

you know it's inappropriate. Sure, you say you'd be fine if your partner did this but I highly doubt it.

There are places I hit with my friends for happy hours sometimes but none of the bartenders have my phone # and vice versa nor do I go to just "hang" with the bartenders, play pool, and text outside of happy hour (or any hour).


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

I have a feeling he's not coming back...


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

Numb in Ohio said:


> I have a feeling he's not coming back...


I think, unfortunately, that some people disappear when they don't hear what they want to or don't like what's being said. Sometimes, they just can't process the responses. Sometimes, hearing it just doesn't suit their agendas because the question had ulterior motives.

Given that this guy is engaged to be married, I hope that if he hasn't been convinced that he's in dangerous waters, he will at least consider that this is likely to be problematic in his future marriage. If he doesn't take his relationship with his fiance seriously, things are likely to become bigger issues in the future. 

OP and his GF could take this opportunity to figure out what they really want and whether it is actually the same thing and whether or not their ideas about what marriage is are the same, to make their relationship stronger....but the OP's defensiveness and desire to convince either himself or his GF that this is acceptable makes me think that he's getting too much pleasure out of sneaking some crumbs out of the cookie jar to care that it's a bad idea. It's disappointing that it looks like these two will miss an opportunity to address an issue that could help the potential longevity of their marriage. 

I hope for both of their sakes that they think about these issues and don't hurt each other out of obstinate preservation of feelings of self-entitlement as that way lies the land of cake-eaters.


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## justanaveragejoe (Sep 21, 2012)

i have described in perfect detail what takes place when i go to the bar, please refer back to the OP,

- i sit,
- i read the paper,
- i watch tv,
- i drink beer (2-3 max)

if a conversation is started by the bartender, i will carry on the conversation, however if i sit by myself the entire time and leave im just as happy as i would be if the bartender talked to me, it would make no difference to me,

(using specific quotes here) somehow along the way my story has gradually now been changed by several members to....

- i am flirting with the bartender,
- i want to see the bartender naked,
- i want a shot to date the bartender,
- i want to sleep with the bartender,
- i sit with the bartender,
- the bartender is hot,
- the bartender is attractive,
- i text the bartender a few times daily,
- i play pool with the bartender,
- i have a crush on the bartender,
- i am infactuated with the bartender,

where are all of these assumptions coming from? i just dont get it,

oh and i have also left the forum and im not returning because i didnt like the advice i heard, this was decided for me in my absence all because i didnt reply by the time that was arbitrarily decided by a few members,

no point in trying to explain why it takes me so long to get back on here, lets just say life is very busy for some of us, and as a result, the many questions here will have to wait for another day,

the question i have come up with to ask myself is this....would my interactions, texts, conversations, or relationship with the bartender be any different if she was male, and my answer is no, it would be completely the same


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Why does she have your number and you hers?

I think if you had to come here and ask an "am I cheating" question, you probably feel in some way that what you're doing isn't right and need to validate that feeling. 

Any communcations outside of the bar seems if I may say... A BIT MUCH. Get your drink on, make small talk,and go home to your fiance. End of story.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Your fiance' should be of utmost importance to you, as there should be an aura of unrequited trust there. If you are insistent on continuing this relationship with this bartender, then your fiance' should have equal access to this other persons contact info also. If you should feel that this is not, in any way possible, then what is it that you could remotely be hiding from your fiance'?


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

justanaveragejoe said:


> yes it seems that way to me too,
> 
> guilty of cheating till proven innocent it seems :scratchhead:


Well, don't bother moving to Canada, we have cheating here, too.

Not everyone is saying you're cheating, but since you asked the question, you're getting a variety of answers. Your defensive replies indicate that you came here in order to justify your actions (texting another female) rather than to find out if it's OK or not. Around here, for most of us, this is not OK behaviour. I'm still unclear as to whether your fiance knows about this texting back and forth with the barmaid. How does she feel about it? If she's cool with it, then you don't have to listen to any of us and you don't have to move to Canada.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

bubbly girl said:


> OP, your responses sound as if you are very sure that there is nothing inappropriate about what's going on. You've also avoided answering any questions of whether or not your fiance knows.
> 
> My guess is your fiance found out and flipped (probably accused you of cheating) & you came here to prove it's innocent. Show her everyone agrees there's nothing wrong with what you're doing. You seem pretty defensive that there is nothing wrong with this friendship, regardless of what people are warning you about.
> 
> ...


Nailed it...:iagree:

Now the OP is leaving because he doesn't like the answers he got. In other words, no one came along and told him what he wanted to hear. Tough love from many of us around here, JAAJ. Tough love.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

yes, it a start of ... 



~sammy


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Ok, I have a question about my friend John. We go down to the bar every Saturday night and just talk. Am I being unfaithful? See my point? If there was absolutely nothing there and never could be, ever in a million years you wouldn't be here asking the question. Surely you realise that? 

You came here and asked this question for a reason. You refuse to divulge that reason and instead get angry with everyone. You don't ask that question about your male friends, do you? 

If you had spent any time on these boards or if your partner had been caught in an EA or PA you would understand that you react the way you do because you feel guilty. Why would you ask about an innocent friendship? Why else would you get so defensive?

Ask a few of the people in the Coping with Infidelity forum when they last saw someone react in this defensive way.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Really????? 
I mean at this point do I even have to further explain how this seemingly positive situation could turn out very badly. I'm sure you've been to CWI enough times to know how "just a friend" you confide your problems to could turn into an affair given the opportunity and justifications you deliver to yourself. 

You asked if it was cheating simply *BECAUSE* you didn't feel secure in this new relationship. *And then you defended your new texting buddy to us instead of talking to your fiance about this, the one person who can actually do anything about your relationship besides you.*

If you didn't feel guilty you wouldn't feel the need to jump up and down professing your innocence to US. You would accept at least some fault and then do something about it the way a real man would, by setting boundaries with this new woman and adhering to them.

Or maybe you're not ready to get married. Have you even considered that? Because if you feel the need to keep secrets from your fiance now, you're going to do it again and again..... and that's not someone she can trust or feel loving towards for long.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Through 5 pages of posts, you still have not answered if your fiance knows you are talking to this woman ? Why are you avoiding this question in particular?

Maybe you need to ask HER (your fiance) if SHE thinks it is within her boundaries as a couple. 

This might clarify to you what is accepted in your relationship with her, we cannot answer if she would be comfortable with you talking to a female friend.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Numb in Ohio said:


> Through 5 pages of posts, you still have not answered if your fiance knows you are talking to this woman ? Why are you avoiding this question in particular?
> 
> Maybe you need to ask HER (your fiance) if SHE thinks it is within her boundaries as a couple.
> 
> This might clarify to you what is accepted in your relationship with her, we cannot answer if she would be comfortable with you talking to a female friend.


YES... that's the million dollar question isn't it?

But he's terribly busy you see.... no time to answer such trival things


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## justanaveragejoe (Sep 21, 2012)

Numb in Ohio said:


> Through 5 pages of posts, you still have not answered if your fiance knows you are talking to this woman ? Why are you avoiding this question in particular


once again a bit of reading goes a long way, i have already explained why i have not answered questions *YET*, i told you all i would get to them another day,

yes my fiance knows about the bartender, yes she knows i talk to her, yes she knows we text, yes she is welcome to come to the bar, but she understands that is my "me time", is everybody happy now?

any more questions that i might have missed? just so everybody knows ahead of time i am WORKING ALL DAY, so i will not be able to reply till tomorrow, so dont worry yourselves all day long, i have not run away,

i have figured out what is going on here,

i have come to a marriage site that is full of people that have been cheated on by their spouses, and they are still bitter and angry about it. If they get any wiff of any type of cheating, looks like cheating, sounds like cheating, smells like cheating, they are all over you like flies on sh!t. They get very defensive and argumentative.

like i said before, guilty till proven innocent here,

i seriously think more than half of you have nothing better to do with your time, so you sit on here all day long making up stories about other people that are not true,

all perfect examples right here......

- i am flirting with the bartender,
- i want to see the bartender naked,
- i want a shot to date the bartender,
- i want to sleep with the bartender,
- i sit with the bartender,
- the bartender is hot,
- the bartender is attractive,
- i text the bartender a few times daily,
- i play pool with the bartender,
- i have a crush on the bartender,
- i am infactuated with the bartender,

where did this all come from? i can tell you exactly where, from your own imaginations,

its like you people are trying to create your own virtual soap opera with me being the main character,

i would like to thank the very few members who gave helpful advice both in the thread and through PMs, you have been great, but it seems like this site is full of people just trying their hardest to cause problems instead of help out,


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

i don't understand what the point of your question was and why you're here. 

If you KNOW you're not cheating,If your fiance KNOWS you're not cheating,If you don't feel ANY GUILT,If you're being 100% honest...

why even come here?


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

justanaveragejoe said:


> once again a bit of reading goes a long way, i have already explained why i have not answered questions *YET*, i told you all i would get to them another day,
> 
> yes my fiance knows about the bartender, yes she knows i talk to her, yes she knows we text, yes she is welcome to come to the bar, but she understands that is my "me time", is everybody happy now?
> 
> ...


How very rude and troll-like of you....telling us that we have nothing better to do...give me a break. May I politely remind you that YOU were the one that posted here asking if you were cheating. It's been pointed out several times now, that if you even need to ask, then you know that you must be doing something wrong on some level. And if, as you say, your girlfriend knows all about your friendship with the barmaid and has NO issue with it...why bother asking your question in the first place?

Re-read the last line of your post; YOU are one of those who cause problems on sites like this.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

Want to know what pisses me off? Someone calling betrayed spouses bitter. 

Affairs whether emotional or sexual start somewhere. So you go on and keep texting your "friend" the bartender. I have a feeling we will be seeing a "I really screwed up by screwing the bartender" post in several weeks. 

My fiance went to bars for his "me time"...eventually he got a bartenders number and tried to call her 8 times in a 30 minute period for a hook-up. Your wife should be very wary of your "me time."


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> i don't understand what the point of your question was and why you're here.
> 
> If you KNOW you're not cheating,If your fiance KNOWS you're not cheating,If you don't feel ANY GUILT,If you're being 100% honest...
> 
> why even come here?


Same here. 

If he's not cheating and his fiancee thinks he's not cheating and he doesn't really want other people's opinons, why bother to make an account and ask this on a forum that's pro-marriage? 

I'm always baffled by people who ask a question hoping for only a particular answer. If you have an particular answer in mind, tell us. We'll repeat the answer verbatim. It's then a win-win situation for everyone. You hear the answer you want and the rest of us can move to other threads where people actually want honest opinions.


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## Readytogo (Jul 11, 2012)

You came on here and asked..."Am I Cheating"? .you've got your answers as we see them. But maybe you should be asking your fiance.

She'll be able to provide your answers you are looking for...Good luck....


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Is the bartender attractive?


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Nope never been cheated on (that i know of). Never cheated on anyone else either. Doesn't stop me having strong feelings about cheating. 

You asked us our opinions. We gave you our opinions. Now your acting like baby whose pram has been kicked.

So cya.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> yes my fiance knows about the bartender, yes she knows i talk to her, yes she knows we text, yes she is welcome to come to the bar, but she understands that is my "me time", is everybody happy now?


:lol:

Come back when you read and comprehend the meaning of cheating. As clever and superior as you want to come off to the others in this thread you obviously have no idea what cheating means.

For the record, I've been happily married for 10 years with NOT one incident of cheating or even close to it for either of us. We also don't play silly games with one another nor do we text barmaids or bartenders and consider them friends. They are there to provide a service, not be my chat/text buddy. We have that with one another.

Thanks for posting. It's been rather entertaining.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

justanaveragejoe said:


> i will try to keep this as short as possible,
> 
> i moved in with my fiance about 2 years ago (been together for 5 total), we are both happy in the relationship, she lived about 70 mins away from me, so i do not really know anybody here except for her family, i dont have many friends to begin with though,
> 
> ...


I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Even if you only consider her a friend, she may want to be more than friends with you.

My husband (single at the time) was a bartender through college & many women hit on him. He only gave out his number to women he was interested in to date. He had enough friends & wasn't interested in being "just friends" with random women at his bar.

If she is your friend, why don't you invite her over for dinner with your fiancee?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Emerald said:


> If she is your friend, why don't you invite her over for dinner with your fiancee?


:smthumbup: yes.please do this and then report back to us bitter angry folks


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Emerald said:


> I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> *Even if you only consider her a friend, she may want to be more than friends with you.*
> 
> ...


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Another case of: Let me post a question asking if my actions are inappropriate/seem like cheating (check the thread title) but then get defensive when people agree that the behavior is inappropriate and get upset when I don't like the responses I'm getting.


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

Assuming everything the OP says is true, the likely reason for him posting here is the barmaid said "ok this has to stop, this is me cheating on my husband" or the barmaids husband found out and accused her of cheating on him.

To respond to the OP question, 95% of your story is clearly not cheating. It is lacking personal and marital boundries and does accurately describe the early stages of an affair, and I would advise you to put your boundries in place and uphold them for the safety of your relationship, but no it is not cheating.



justanaveragejoe said:


> the other day she text me and said she is bored at work, so i asked if she wanted some company, (fiance was at work) she said yes, so i went in and chatted for awhile over a few beers,


There you have crossed the line from "not a good idea but innocent" to "playing in really deep water". Assuming that you and the barmaid were alone together, you crossed what should be a clearly established line by having a meal alone together with her. It's a date, plain and simple. It is not cheating but it is a clear and direction violation of the "how to protect your marriage" handbook.

It is clear to me from your OP that you are on a destructive path. Your defensive responses make me even more concerned.

You've done nothing wrong yet but you can use this as a learning experience regarding how to protect your marriage and it could be really beneficial in the long run.

Alternatively you can turn a blind eye to all this advice and destroy your relationship. Your call.


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

justanaveragejoe said:


> i have also left the forum and im not returning because i didnt like the advice i heard


"I'm going home and taking my ball with me!!"


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Well at least he was honest in saying he wouldn't return cause he didn't like what he heard.

Haha. Good luck with that in life.


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Well at least he was honest in saying he wouldn't return cause he didn't like what he heard.
> 
> Haha. Good luck with that in life.


Agreed.

Then he returned to continue posting!

I appriciate that he continued discussion though. Perhaps this thread will broaden his horizons. Perhaps it won't.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

I was honeslty hoping he would come back...maybe he will one day in the Divorce/Separating section.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

I don't think that the gender of a friend is irrelevant, however, the gender isn't the inherent problem in this kind of a situation; you keep fixating on the gender, as if it excuses everything else, when in reality the transgression is one of who you have let into the #1 spot in your heart and life. The problem at the heart of EAs is that one spouse is giving energy that should be going to the other spouse to a friendship or relationship of some sort that is leaching that energy out of the marriage.

If you're talking to a friend -- any friend, of any gender, or relative familial status -- in a way that compromises the primary relationship you have with your spouse, then you've got a problematic friendship. When issues of potential or actual sexual attraction enter into the equation, those trouble flames are fanned even higher. If you are having problems or issues with your spouse and you don't talk to your spouse about them but try to evade the issue by talking to someone else instead of your spouse, or by escaping into fantasy (drugs, alcohol, video games, cheating, excessive work or hobbies), then you are damaging the bond between you and your spouse.

I'm not trying to say that you should love your spouse more than yourself or your work or anything else, or even that you should worship your spouse or be your spouse's devotee. However, if you're in a committed marriage (or marriage-bound) relationship with someone, then it is your obligation to deal with problems and issues in a mature and fair manner. Escaping is passive aggressive and confrontation/conflict-avoidant and it serves to alleviate the immediate discomfort of one person at the expense of the other person because it does not properly fix the problem.

Secrecy is part of this troubled dynamic. The more you keep a thing secret, the more you end up having to expend on guarding it. You end up compartmentalizing this issue and keeping it separate from your spouse. You're supposed to be able to share burdens and issues with your spouse, but if you're keeping something a secret because your spouse objects, then you are deceiving that person and wasting emotional energy that could be better utilized -- at the expense of the spouse who trusts you to be honest and committed. It's a crass thing to do.

These two posts below mentioned some insightful things and I wanted to relate my point sto them.



Nsweet said:


> Really?????
> I'm sure you've been to CWI enough times to know how "just a friend" you confide your problems to could turn into an affair given the opportunity and justifications you deliver to yourself.
> 
> Because if you feel the need to keep secrets from your fiance now, you're going to do it again and again..... and that's not someone she can trust or feel loving towards for long.


OP, you're not being honest with yourself, because you don't want to accept what you're hearing. That's why you're clinging to the same lines over and over, even when the rest of us are incredulous because you yourself have asked if it was cheating, which implies that you have a sense that this could be seen as inappropriate. From that contradiction in your own posts and behavior, it is evident that you're not being honest -- either to yourself, or to others in the hopes of justifying your actions. Again, the problem is that your deceit will drive a wedge between you and your GF. And those secrets will grow and that rift will widen. 

Nsweet's suggestion that you might want to question whether you're ready for marriage are useful. If you are planning on marrying your GF, then burying your head in the sand about this problem or just throwing a rug over it is going to condition your responses this way and you're sabotaging yourself. Are you doing this because you don't feel ready to commit monogamously or do you honestly not understand the problem? If it's the latter, you're not thinking deeply enough, and it's the former, maybe you need to dwell on the issue of why you're digging your heels in about this and what that says about some need or issue that is calling out for attention in your psyche.




johnnycomelately said:


> Ok, I have a question about my friend John. We go down to the bar every Saturday night and just talk. Am I being unfaithful? See my point? If there was absolutely nothing there and never could be, ever in a million years you wouldn't be here asking the question. Surely you realise that?


Even this situation could unhinge a marriage. No it's not inherently wrong, but it could upset the balance. You know...if Husband and Husband's Buddy (even a guy buddy) hang out every Saturday and they complain about their troubles and H doesn't talk to his W about those troubles, but confides in the B, then...even this is a problem because the friendship is interfering with the marriage. H keeps venting about the problems and the problems don't get better so resentment builds, but it could all be fixed if H were venting to the right person about the relevant problems; he could always vent to his buddy additionally. No one says H can't have buddies or even really deeply close ones, but if his buddies mean more to him than his spouse (who is allegedly his best buddy, his life partner) or he is bonding with his buddies in a way that gets between him and his spouse, then either he needs to figure out how to care more about his marriage or figure out how to fairly end that marriage -- or, at least make sure that his spouse is aware that she isn't #1 on his list so that she can make an informed decision about how to allocate her own resources. 

Anyway, I know the OP is probably gone, but I found this thread interesting (for it's defensiveness and denial) and wanted to contribute anyway.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

The other facet that hasn't really been explored, is that hanging out in bars isn't really a marriage-productive thing to do.

When I was just dating my husband, he used to spend a lot of time down at the local pub. Like, 3 or more evenings a week. I never said anything about it since we were only just dating, but as we became more serious, his solo pub time decreased dramatically and/or we started going to the pub together. It was the natural progression of the relationship. He doesn't go out to the pub without me, unless we're meeting up after our own separate events. We don't have 'me time'. Even if we did, that 'me time' certainly wouldn't be spent alone in a bar...


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## justanaveragejoe (Sep 21, 2012)

Originally Posted by justanaveragejoe View Post
i have also left the forum and im not returning because i didnt like the advice i heard



Saki said:


> "I'm going home and taking my ball with me!!"


go back and read that again,

that was a *JOKE*, as in, that is what others on the board *ASSUMED* about me, which is all people do around here, make assumptions and make up stories about others,

you people are just trying to vent your built up anger that you have inside from your spouse cheating on you toward other members like me who dont deserve it,



> Assuming that you and the barmaid were alone together, you crossed what should be a clearly established line by having a meal alone together with her. It's a date, plain and simple. It is not cheating but it is a clear and direction violation of the "how to protect your marriage" handbook.


again, more assumptions made, where did this come from?

we were not alone together, when does a bar ever have one person in it? she was there doing her job like usual, chatting with me and others when time permitted her to,

now we had a meal together???? where did this come from??? add that to the long list of assumptions made in this thread,

if we continue this thread much longer, i will be proposing and marrying her in two weeks, why dont we add that to the soap opera you have all created with your imaginations, would that be a good end to our fairy tale we have created?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

you've already established you know you aren't cheating. you are totally innocent.your fiance knows everything.

WHY continue baiting the board with this topic?


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

:lol: :rofl: :rofl:


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Joe: You're marrying the bartender? 

:wtf:





































:rofl: Sorry, had to!


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## justanaveragejoe (Sep 21, 2012)

Numb in Ohio said:


> Are you wanting us to tell you that , yes, it's ok to befriend a female and be texting back and forth.., and seeing her away from from your fiance.? Not gonna happen,, at least not here.


yes, if that is what you think, then yes

explain why that would never happen on here? why not?

basically your saying under no circumstances can a male make a female friend while in a relationship? even when the woman knows about it? that is a totally irrational comment and your a joke!


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

waiwera said:


> Nope never been cheated on (that i know of). Never cheated on anyone else either. Doesn't stop me having strong feelings about cheating.
> 
> You asked us our opinions. We gave you our opinions. Now your acting like baby whose pram has been kicked.
> 
> So cya.



:rofl:


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

You finally told us that your fiance knows about your friendship with the bartender. You never said whether she was ok with it. Was the question about is it cheating because your fiance found out and flipped? 

Your very reluctant to answer any questions about your fiance's feelings about the friendship.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I have a hard time believing this is a real story. I think average joe just likes to argue so created a hot topic thread. Probably has other user ids. 

Maybe someone we've seen arguing for OSF on other threads who got slammed.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Seems like there was a user semi-recently who was here just to pick a fight... wonder if we have another.

There has got to be a better way to use your time...


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Maybe it's just everyone else with the problem, and not the OP...


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> I have a hard time believing this is a real story. I think average joe just likes to argue so created a hot topic thread. Probably has other user ids.
> 
> Maybe someone we've seen arguing for OSF on other threads who got slammed.


I agree. People, including me, need to stop feeding the thing that lives under the bridge.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

I disagree. Let's fight!!!


Or not.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Huh! And usually I'm the one fighting with people! I still can't figure out why he asked the question in the first place. I mean, I rarely pose questions here, about problems that I am not having...Gah. Who knows?


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Joe, while it's true there are some extremely bitter people here who are more interested in finding some kind of residual vindication by gnashing their teeth at others, I can't help but notice a few things, some of which have already been suggested by others. 

1) It took you a long, long time to answer a very pivotal question- "Does your wife know?" And your justification for neglecting to answer doesn't make sense. You are really acting dodgy and that attribute alone will cause everyone to wonder- why are you behaving that way? 

2) Your battle cries are "Irrational" and "You're making assumptions". Rationale seldom plays a part in infidelity, or sex in general for that matter. Affairs occur precisely _because_ people are being irrational. And the thing about irrationality is that the one who is irrational does not perceive that he or she is being irrational. And that is what I see coming from you- you're emphasizing bizarre things and neglecting other, more pertinent things, like someone accenting the wrong syllables in their dialect. It's weird, and it makes all of us wonder if there's something you're not telling us. 

I don't think there's anyone here who wishes harm upon you. And your point that many of the BS's in here are howling because of the precarious position you find yourself in (and not because you have actually done anything wrong) is well-taken. But the fact of the matter is that some of us are making "assumptions" because you are acting very oddly. 

We can't help you until we have an accurate understanding of what has transpired, and what you are truly feeling. If what you have presented to us is true, unalloyed and unslanted, best of luck. If not, I'd implore you to be a bit more objective and let us assist you.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

WhiteMousse said:


> I don't think there's anyone here who wishes harm upon you. And your point that many of the BS's in here are howling because of the precarious position you find yourself in (and not because you have actually done anything wrong) is well-taken. *But the fact of the matter is that some of us are making "assumptions" because you are acting very oddly. *


also the general wisdom here is that you don't have to eat the whole pot of soup to know that it's salty.

Your situation follows so closely to the script. Sorry but human nature is not THAT varied.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

justanaveragejoe said:


> yes, if that is what you think, then yes
> 
> explain why that would never happen on here? why not?
> 
> basically your saying under no circumstances can a male make a female friend while in a relationship? even when the woman knows about it? that is a totally irrational comment and your a joke!


Your summary is overly simplistic and reductive. 

It is not that people of opposite genders cannot be friends at all, just that people with poor boundaries should not do so because it endangers their primary love relationships.


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