# Resentment over reaction to SI



## moonbeam78 (Oct 11, 2015)

TL;DR
Was in a particularly bad spot with depression and had SI. Confessed to wife and she called me ass for adding stress to her life due to job change. Is my resentment justified?

Howdy Tam, 
I have been in IC and on meds for major depression for several years. My mood varies greatly on occasion, even with meds. A few weeks ago I had a particular bad patch and envisioned driving my car into ditch, etc. 
After feeling down for a few days which coincided with a stressful (and unwanted) job change for my wife (change in department) my wife snapped and asked what was wrong. I told her how I was feeling and she called me an ass. She proceeded to cry for 30 minutes about how stressful her life was and that I was adding to it. Eventually, just as I was falling asleep she asked why I felt the way I did. I mumbled something about not doing well and left it alone.

A few days later I brought it up and let her know that I greatly resented her response, to which she responded "you have to realize how stressful this is for me right now". 

I have not been terribly happy with her attitude about my illness, and she's quick to assume the meds should take care of it and if I'm not doing well, I must have skipped my meds.

My worry is that I'm over-emphasizing this event as I question the future in my marriage. There are other issues I won't go into here, but setting those aside for the moment. My therapist was NOT happy with her response, btw, and is supportive of me calling this event a 'turning point'. 

I'm curious how others would best handle this and view this from the proper perspective? 

Thanks


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I would say if your wife is not a psychiatrist, it's unlikely she knows what to say in response to your illness manifesting itself.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

What is "SI" ? Are you referencing self-injury?

I can tell you I was married to someone who suffered from recurrent major depression and anxiety and paranoia, I say this only because I know some of what your W is going through. Obviously, I don't know her and don't know the dynamics of your marriage.

Are you working? You mention that she is and is under pressure from her work.

So you know that she is under stress, but you want her focus to be on you? I'm not sure that's a reasonable expectation. While her delivery could have been more gentle, she's showing you that her life is hard, as well. My experience is that depression is an insidiously selfish disease. Your illness requires that your focus is solely on you, your pain, your illness, your treatment, and how everyone in the world is or should respond to you. That is the disease-not you personally. From your partner's point of view it is exhausting. Does she have a support system? Is she in counseling?

I hope you continue in treatment and that you get to experience some real and long-lasting improvement.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Living, or even being associated, with depressed people is very stressful (I know).

Is there enough there to make living with you worth her while?

What do you give in return?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

We need more information about your marriage and what's going on in your lives to adequately answer this.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Are you able to hold down a job?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> What is "SI" ? Are you referencing self-injury?
> 
> I can tell you I was married to someone who suffered from recurrent major depression and anxiety and paranoia, I say this only because I know some of what your W is going through. Obviously, I don't know her and don't know the dynamics of your marriage.
> 
> ...


I think SI refers to suicidal impulses.

Edit:
Nope, googled it and it seems Self Injury is more what people refer to as SI.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

He said: 'and had SI'

I thought that he meant: and had suicidal ideation





Fozzy said:


> I think SI refers to suicidal impulses.
> 
> Edit:
> Nope, googled it and it seems Self Injury is more what people refer to as SI.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> He said: 'and had SI'
> 
> I thought that he meant: and had suicidal ideation


Well @moonbeam78 we need some clarification from you as to what you meant by "SI"


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> So you know that she is under stress, but you want her focus to be on you? I'm not sure that's a reasonable expectation. While her delivery could have been more gentle, she's showing you that her life is hard, as well. *My experience is that depression is an insidiously selfish disease. Your illness requires that your focus is solely on you, your pain, your illness, your treatment, and how everyone in the world is or should respond to you.* That is the disease-not you personally. From your partner's point of view it is exhausting. Does she have a support system? Is she in counseling?
> 
> I hope you continue in treatment and that you get to experience some real and long-lasting improvement.


I agree with this 100%. I have first hand experience with a manic depressive person. It's not pleasant to deal with someone like that at all.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Your wife is probably exhausted from dealing with your depression all the time. Now that she is going thru a rough patch and needs to lean on someone, she finds that she cant lean on you. Because you are going thru your own stuff. That is why she said what she did. For once, she must really need a husband she can depend on to help carry her burden. All she sees is your constant demand and her plate is too full at this time to help you. 

She needs a break. She needs to restore herself. She needs a break from the constant giving, to recharge her batteries. There is only so much we can give anyone person, without getting something back to refill our selves. 

So, think of her perspective when you consider the future of your marriage. Maybe, that would be a good thing, to set her free and for you to have time to work on you.


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## moonbeam78 (Oct 11, 2015)

Yes, SI means suicidal ideation.

Thank you for your input. There's a ton of assumptions built into it, but I'll take away what I can.

MB


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## moonbeam78 (Oct 11, 2015)

brooklynAnn said:


> Your wife is probably exhausted from dealing with your depression all the time.


:|


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I see from another of your posts that you are contemplating a separation because you and your therapist suspect that your wife may be the cause of your depression. This would be a good experiment for you so that you and the therapist can rule out a possible cause.

Are you working outside of the home? I ask because if you do separate, you may be isolated from human contact.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I'm also a sufferer of depression and while I see both sides of the coin, I do think that some of the responses here are harsh. This can't be the result of a single interaction between you and your wife. What's the back story here?


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Thank you for your clarification about SI, and I am truly sorry you are in such pain and are considering such a drastic action. Did you mention this to your counselor?


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## moonbeam78 (Oct 11, 2015)

I do work out of the home. I have a very successful career in the sciences. I was a PhD student when I was diagnosed and have steadily improved jobs and income in the last 8 or so years. 

I find it very harsh to presume that I have been a depressive burden on my wife, but I do need to be cognizant of the other side of the coin. I can appreciate that. And it's definitely something to away and be introspective about how I've handled things. 

There have been multiple interactions concerning my depression, but mostly involving her making sure I've taken meds. I feel as though she believes the meds handle everything and her life and attitude towards me shouldn't/won't change. I don't believe it's selfish of me to expect some at least consideration of my illness, not one iota. Do expect her to drop her life and care for me? Of course not. But to call me an ass at a bottom point strike me as really challenging my thinking.


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## moonbeam78 (Oct 11, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> Thank you for your clarification about SI, and I am truly sorry you are in such pain and are considering such a drastic action. Did you mention this to your counselor?


Yes, and we've stepped up my checkins with her as a result.


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## moonbeam78 (Oct 11, 2015)

Buddy400 said:


> Living, or even being associated, with depressed people is very stressful (I know).
> 
> Is there enough there to make living with you worth her while?
> 
> What do you give in return?


I am not sure how to respond to this. Honestly.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

moonbeam78 said:


> I do work out of the home. I have a very successful career in the sciences. I was a PhD student when I was diagnosed and have steadily improved jobs and income in the last 8 or so years.
> 
> I find it very harsh to presume that I have been a depressive burden on my wife, but I do need to be cognizant of the other side of the coin. I can appreciate that. And it's definitely something to away and be introspective about how I've handled things.


If you didn't have your diagnosis, can you try to imagine what life would have been like? For her? Would she have been going out dancing? To shows? On camping trips? Cruises? Surfing? 

Do you see what I mean? Each of us, when we partner up, are giving up a part of what WE would have done, in order to both please and be with the other person. 

So, as has been asked, has that choice been worth her while? For whatever she gave up?


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Moonbeam, I'm glad you're checking in more frequently with your therapist. I'm sending you a PM


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

The thing that keeps rolling over in my mind is how it must feel to a person contemplating suicide to hear that he is a huge burden on the people around him. I hope no one tells me this. I'm in favor of the separation it your counselor is on board with it. I can't see how the relationship could help you.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

moonbeam78 said:


> I do work out of the home. I have a very successful career in the sciences. I was a PhD student when I was diagnosed and have steadily improved jobs and income in the last 8 or so years.
> 
> I find it very harsh to presume that I have been a depressive burden on my wife, but I do need to be cognizant of the other side of the coin. I can appreciate that. And it's definitely something to away and be introspective about how I've handled things.
> 
> There have been multiple interactions concerning my depression, but mostly involving her making sure I've taken meds. I feel as though she believes the meds handle everything and her life and attitude towards me shouldn't/won't change. *I don't believe it's selfish of me to expect some at least consideration of my illness, not one iota*. Do expect her to drop her life and care for me? Of course not. But to call me an ass at a bottom point strike me as really challenging my thinking.


How often is she required to give that consideration? How often are things bad for you, and how often does she have to deal with the repercussions when things are bad for you? When you are in a bad place, how long does it last?

That can wear on a person over a lifetime, especially when she's JUST had an unexpected and unwelcome job change that is causing her major stress. How have you helped her get through this difficult time? Experts say losing a job is one of the most stressful things a person goes through in life; were you able to offer sympathy and a cup of tea and a hug and a shoulder for her to lean on and talk with?

Can she rely on you for emotional support when she is feeling stressed out, upset, afraid, confused and worried? Or do her feelings and thoughts often have to take a back seat because yours are front and center?

What kind of support system does your wife have outside your marriage? Does she have anyone else in her life to turn to for support when you can't provide it because you are immersed in your own pain?

You might not be seeing the effects of your illness on her life, because you are focused on how it affects you. 

It's not easy living with a person who has depression. Your concerns, problems and issues get dismissed because theirs encompass everything and affect everything. You're pretty much on your own with your problems because that person can't be there for you because they are so focused on themselves and their pain. Been there. 

And in your case with your SI, your wife also has to constantly worry about whether you will harm yourself. That fear never goes away for her, even if she isn't expressing it to you all the time. That fear is ALWAYS in her head. She never knows when/if the other shoe might drop. That's why she's so intense about you taking your meds. It's not that she thinks they will cure you - she knows they won't. But she also knows that's one of the things that stopping you from taking your life, so it seems cruel to her to think you aren't taking your meds.


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## moonbeam78 (Oct 11, 2015)

turnera said:


> So, as has been asked, has that choice been worth her while? For whatever she gave up?


I suppose I'm not the one to answer that. I though I also suppose I can ask her frankly whether it's been worth it.

I get the feeling there is a presumption I have spent several years in bed. While that is the common perception (and in some cases valid) it is not in mine. If you met me you'd find it hard to believe I'm on medication or see a therapist. And we HAVE traveled and done many exciting things, although perhaps not to the level had I not been diagnosed. (So it is a fair question, to be sure, but a lot of assumptions therein)

But alas, I cannot change it. It is, as they shall, what it is. The best I can do is plot a path forward.


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## moonbeam78 (Oct 11, 2015)

norajane said:


> How often is she required to give that consideration? How often are things bad for you, and how often does she have to deal with the repercussions when things are bad for you? When you are in a bad place, how long does it last?


This was my first really bad bout in several years. It lasted a few weeks. 



norajane said:


> That can wear on a person over a lifetime, especially when she's JUST had an unexpected and unwelcome job change that is causing her major stress.


I find it mind-boggling that one could compare the two. Too each his own.



norajane said:


> How have you helped her get through this difficult time? Experts say losing a job is one of the most stressful things a person goes through in life; were you able to offer sympathy and a cup of tea and a hug and a shoulder for her to lean on and talk with?


No. I was in shell-shock. And I was trying to maintain perspective. 



norajane said:


> Can she rely on you for emotional support when she is feeling stressed out, upset, afraid, confused and worried? Or do her feelings and thoughts often have to take a back seat because yours are front and center?
> 
> 
> What kind of support system does your wife have outside your marriage? Does she have anyone else in her life to turn to for support when you can't provide it because you are immersed in your own pain?
> ...


Trust me. I know this. And the introspection that comes from those thoughts usually causes a shame-spiral that needs professional assistance to recover from. The basic tenet of suicide is that those in her life would be better off without me. 

At the risk of sounding melodramatic it seems that's the consensus.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

moonbeam78 said:


> I suppose I'm not the one to answer that. I though I also suppose I can ask her frankly whether it's been worth it.
> 
> I get the feeling there is a presumption I have spent several years in bed. While that is the common perception (and in some cases valid) it is not in mine. If you met me you'd find it hard to believe I'm on medication or see a therapist. And we HAVE traveled and done many exciting things, although perhaps not to the level had I not been diagnosed. (So it is a fair question, to be sure, but a lot of assumptions therein)
> 
> But alas, I cannot change it. It is, as they shall, what it is. The best I can do is plot a path forward.


Does that path forward include weekly or biweekly visits to your therapist? Adjustment of your meds? Actively changing your day-to-day life so that you start to look for and find joy in living? Finding an organization for which to volunteer? Spending 10 to 15 hours a week with your wife doing non-chores/kids/work/electronics things so that you can stay in love?

You seem to have a BIG chip on your shoulder about "assumptions." You keep mentioning it, as though we posters are doing you a disservice or something. It tells me that you are overly concerned about your appearance to other people, or about your 'diagnosis' or what your 'truth' is. Fair enough. But if you want to IMPROVE your life, it will help to be honest with yourself about that. 

You are here showing dismay that your wife isn't being supportive enough. But, as is common with depressed people (waving my own hand here), you also seem to be having trouble seeing her experience. The fact that she would react that way tells me that SHE, at least, feels resentment for you. And it behooves you to figure out if she has REASON to feel resentment. We don't know enough about your actual situation, as you keep pointing out (assumptions), so we are telling you possible points that might have a bearing in your situation. 

I assume you're coming here for some advice that will help you, and not just commiseration - which may feel good in the moment but won't do anything to help you improve the situation. 

You say your IC thinks she may be the 'cause' of your depression, but you haven't really said why. If you elaborate, we may be able to give more targeted advice.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

moonbeam78 said:


> At the risk of sounding melodramatic it seems that's the consensus.


Cut it out!

No one is saying that.

We are telling you that in every relationship there are two individuals who approach the same set of facts differently.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

moonbeam78 said:


> And the introspection that comes from those thoughts usually causes a shame-spiral that needs professional assistance to recover from. The basic tenet of suicide is that those in her life would be better off without me.
> 
> At the risk of sounding melodramatic it seems that's the consensus.


You're right, it's sounding melodramatic. And NObody here has even HINTED that that is the case. That's your depression and your self-pity talking. Trust me, BTDT. The people in my life who've been privy to my SI have flat out told me they would be FURIOUS with me if I were to follow through. Why? Because that is NOT what THEY were thinking, it was just my depression/self-pity propping myself up because I didn't want to push myself out of my fog.

There's no easy fix for that. But a good first step would be to stop saying things like 'you're right (passive aggressive comment), she'd be better off without me' when nobody has said so.


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## moonbeam78 (Oct 11, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> Cut it out!
> 
> No one is saying that.
> 
> We are telling you that in every relationship there are two individuals who approach the same set of facts differently.


That is fair. And that is a good takeway from this thread, trust me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

fwiw, I am NOT trying to minimize the hurt you felt at her saying what she said. She was very rude and I know it hurt to hear it. 

We're just trying to say that, when people speak rudely, it's usually a direct result of some sort of pain or unhappiness. And if you can figure out what that is, you two can work TOGETHER to find a solution that works for both of you.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

turnera said:


> You say your IC thinks she may be the 'cause' of your depression, but you haven't really said why. If you elaborate, we may be able to give more targeted advice.


I'd also suggest maybe your IC is not helping you as much as you think if she actually thinks your wife is the "cause" of your depression. Sorry, but that sounds f*cked up!!! 

Brain chemistry is the cause of your depression. That's why you need meds. Therapy is supposed to help you cope with your thoughts beyond what the meds can do. A therapist who blames your depression on your wife doesn't sound like she knows what she's talking about!


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## moonbeam78 (Oct 11, 2015)

norajane said:


> I'd also suggest maybe your IC is not helping you as much as you think if she actually thinks your wife is the "cause" of your depression. Sorry, but that sounds f*cked up!!!
> 
> Brain chemistry is the cause of your depression. That's why you need meds. Therapy is supposed to help you cope with your thoughts beyond what the meds can do. A therapist who blames your depression on your wife doesn't sound like she knows what she's talking about!


I don't think I said she was the cause. I meant that our relationship is not healthy, and my wife has some responsibility in how I progress. My therapist posed that question objectively and never once attributed blame.


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## moonbeam78 (Oct 11, 2015)

turnera said:


> fwiw, I am NOT trying to minimize the hurt you felt at her saying what she said. She was very rude and I know it hurt to hear it.
> 
> We're just trying to say that, when people speak rudely, it's usually a direct result of some sort of pain or unhappiness. And if you can figure out what that is, you two can work TOGETHER to find a solution that works for both of you.


I think that's a revelation I'm having. It's time to be a team again.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

moonbeam78 said:


> I don't think I said she was the cause. I meant that our relationship is not healthy, and my wife has some responsibility in how I progress. My therapist posed that question objectively and never once attributed blame.


This is the referenced quote from another thread:



moonbeam78 said:


> I'll use a statement that pops up quite frequently here I gather, which is that your story is my story, differing only in timeline. I have been on meds (likely similar to the ones you have been prescribed) starting a few years after marriage. One thing you should know is that your sudden change of attitude, mood, and outlook is completely normal. And what your friends see is likely real, even if it tapers off (slightly!) as your body adjusts. The meds are working and while 5 weeks is not a lot of time, you are seeing results.
> 
> I have also seen that 30-odd list of signs of abuse and while I don't hit 20 with my spouse I'm damn near close. And it was through IC (and only through IC) that I was able to vocalize that. After hearing my story for many sessions, she actually smiled when I used that phrase, as if to say she was happy I was emerging from the fog.
> 
> ...


And that last part I highlighted shows why your wife asks whether you've been taking your meds when you seem to be in a bad place.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

This is actually helping me to see this from an outside perspective. It is very hard when you are depressed to see it from the other persons point of view. Nora Jane is really providing a honest and accurate feel of the non depressed persons experience. But from the OP side it feels like, your problem is a big nuisance and I wish it would go away. Which is something we outsiders would never say. What we can say, is perhaps she needs a break, or outside support. Her tank is empty and she can not give Moon the support that, yes, he does really need. Moon needs to depersonalize that message, but still accept the fact.

This is not a contest to see which partner has the biggest need. It is a balance of needs vs. ability. and both of them are not getting their needs filled completely. She can not give all he needs, but she should still give all she can. He can not support all that she needs, but reaching out with all he can gather will help him as much as it helps her. If either says, "because I can not give all, I will give none", then the relationship is no longer helpful.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Moonbeam -

99% of the population has never had to deal with someone in their life who is depressed. Clinically depressed and suicidal. 

The term "depressed" is thrown around a lot by normal people who are going through a rough patch. It's also stigmatized and most people who have never suffered from this type of illness have a head full of stereotypes about it...such as someone moping around all day or laying in bed all day. To be fair, this is how it's portrayed in the media and on those god awful SSRI medication commercials. 

If you've never actually experienced depression yourself, or a true suicidal crisis yourself, you really don't know what it's like and in my opinion, it is impossible for you to understand it. 

I am saying this to you because you must keep this in mind when you consider your wife's reaction. She is likely incapable of understanding. That does not mean she does not TRY to understand or that she does not mean well. It does not mean she is a bad person. It says nothing about her character. It is just something for YOU to understand about her. She has no realm of personal experience that she can draw from to understand what it feels like to be you in those dark times. 

I am you and my husband is your wife. Here is what I do to weather the storm:

1. When you are in a good mental state and there are no other outside factors going on in her life, there needs to be a very serious discussion. In that discussion you need to explain to your wife what happens when you have SI. Explain to her that you may appear to have yourself together and be totally fine, and then suddenly experience a tipping point where you are NOT OK. For me this can happen suddenly. I get so lost in my own head that communicating is strained. What you need is a safety plan. Come up with a code word or action. Tell your wife - when I do this, it is serious and I am having SI and may harm myself. Then tell her what you recommend she does. Take you to the hospital? Call your IC? Do you have any rescue meds to help you through a rough patch? I have some heavy sleeping medication prescribed to me and this is the only time I take it. Passing out and shutting down for a night is better than harming yourself. The key here should be that the tools you give her to fix the issue should be fast and concrete. Don't say "talk me down" or something like that. Likely she doesn't know what that means or what to do. 

2. Explain to her that you truly want to be as functional as possible and that you will always seek to meet that goal. You are taking your meds and seeing your IC. Keep doing it. Make sure she knows you are trying. Break through episodes are unfortunately normal. Meds need to be adjusted and stop working randomly. Fun isn't it?

3. I do not lean on my H at all to deal with my illness. Only in those rare occasions when I have to call on him for safety reasons explained in item 1. Otherwise I keep it to myself and just plug along with my doctors orders. The reason I do this is because I know that there is nothing to be gained by sharing it with him. It's irrational and I know he cannot understand, and it would burden him very much not to be able to help me. I'd prefer to protect him from that pain of feeling like a failure. 

4. Know that she will sometimes say and do things that will be extremely hurtful to you, but it's because she doesn't understand. She's human and has her own stressful situations and probably gets frustrated herself that she doesn't seem to have any way of making you better. She is allowed to be frustrated at the situation. She is allowed to also harbor negative feelings of her own..sadness, anger, hurt. All of the same things that you likely went through when you realized this was going to be your lot in life to deal with this illness (why me?) She is also allowed to have those feelings. Hopefully on the whole she is supportive of you, but she cannot be your sole source of support. 

5. Do not make any major decisions during an episode. It's easy to give up on everything during an episode and to internalize every negative word or event as proof that you should just disappear from her life. This is your illness taking over and is not reality. You may not be able to see that when you are in the middle of it. Just close yourself off from any decision making until it lifts. 

I described it to my husband as a fog. For me that is what it's like. Imagine being the only person on the deck of a boat drifting into the fog. You can see it in the distance and you can see that you are approaching the fog. It slowly gets thicker around you and your visibility is dropping. At first you are thinking...ok, i can deal with this...surely we will be through this soon. Suddenly there's a point where its so thick that you can't see anything, not even your hands in front of your face. You lose your bearings without your sight and feel panicky. Alone, vulnerable, lost and no one is there to help. What do you do? You could try to jump off the boat but you cant even find your way to the railing. You aren't driving the boat....so you don't know when you'll come out of the fog. You just know it's terrifying. Nothing can penetrate that fog. Any decision you make in that fog is made out of duress and fear. The way I weather that fog is to hit the deck in fetal position and wait for it to pass. 

I hope that makes sense to you. It's hard to balance taking care of yourself while also being a productive member of a relationship. Be kind to yourself and to your wife, cut her some slack and try to ask yourself if you feel that she is at her core a good person that has your best interests at heart?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

moonbeam78 said:


> I don't think I said she was the cause. I meant that our relationship is not healthy, and my wife has some responsibility in how I progress. My therapist posed that question objectively and never once attributed blame.


To clarify, I pulled the statement from a thread. 

"This past session (again it's as if wrote your post) my therapist said quite clearly that she has a strong suspicion a lot of my issues (including medications and mood) would be rectified by separation. She suggested a timeline...".

So, separating from your wife will rectify your medications and moods. Sounds like blaming to me.

Just a little aside: if you want your wife to speak nicer to you and truly invest herself in your mental welfare, you are going to have to be affectionate with her even if you have never found her physically attractive. You managed to have two kids with her so she can't be that big of a beast. Good luck.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I think you need to consider your wife as somewhat of a caregiver and ask yourself what's reasonable to ask of her. True her response was insensitive but she's not a counselor or shrink and isn't equipped to deal with this. And with counselors this IS their job, where you wife has a full time job and on top of that is expected to be a caregiver when she's not equipped. She's set up to fail. 

I know it's difficult for you but if you've not dealt with someone with your issues (I have) you have no idea what it's like. It's soul sucking. And this has already been pointed out but literally everything has to be about you and your issues so in a sense your wife isn't allowed to have issues. While you're stewing about how she isn't there for you are ever there for her? Do you have anything to give her emotionally?

This isn't to dump on you, your issues are real and serious. But I think having a little empathy for your wife's position might go a long way. Try to think carefully about what you want from her and whether it's reasonable. 

Marriage is a two way street right? As you already pointed out it's time to be a team again. 

My ex best friend of many years had a lot of the same issues you have. The reason we no longer speak after 25 years is that everything was about her and no matter what I did it wasn't enough and there was always something I did wrong. And there was a huge double standard in what was expected of her..... she could basically do whatever she wanted and therapists were there to tell her it wasn't her fault but you had to walk on eggshells with her and it was still never enough. I'm not a therapist and was not equipped to function as one. 

And I certainly wasn't allowed to have my own issues. I had two traumatic events in my life where not only did she offer ZERO sympathy but had the balls to stand in judgement of me. In fact, she stood in judgment of others for things she herself did but because of her issues nothing was her fault and things were permitted for her.

I cut her off after the last traumatic event I dealt with. My life is much better without her.

Sorry for the tangent, I thought it might be helpful to see what it feels like to deal with this for the empathy thing. Hopefully you guys can unite and work this out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I've been on both sides of this. Living with a depressed person is soul sucking. Absolutely soul destroying. Often harder on the people around them than the sufferer themselves. It's such a self indulgent illness, everything is about the sufferer and how it affects them. They have no regard for anyone around them.

Your wife is NOT the cause of your depression. Nor can she fix it for you. You need a new therapist. Possibly a change of medication as well.

After crawling away from a horrendous abusive relationship a few years ago, I had PTSD and was diagnosed with major depression. I was in a hole so deep and black and I could see no way out. I had even planned how I would take my own life. I isolated myself from my family...after our previous experience with depression I couldn't bear for them to think of me in the same way we thought of the person years before who had sucked our souls dry with her misery.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Could it be that your therapist identified certain traits that are present in your relationship dynamics, rather than just your wife? I mean, no therapist can change one's spouse. All they could offer would be ways for you to change the manner in which you interact within the relationship dynamics. Or, are you actually saying that the therapist believes your W is so damaged that you cannot remain in the marriage. Then I'd ask if the same therapist made a clinical diagnosis of your W. If not, it wasn't a responsible remark.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I personally think just BEING in a relationship can be detrimental to a person's well-being, if it's being handled dysfunctionally. That's why I very often tell people to separate and be alone for at least six months. I think it takes that long for the codependency to wear off, for one to be able to think for himself, make choices that benefit herself instead of pleasing the other, and sometimes just learn to take CARE of oneself. Many people go straight from mom and dad to spouse, or even one partner to another, and never have a chance to just BE - and learn who we are, what we really want and need, and how best to get it. Every decision made in a relationship is a compromise of SOME sort, and it's not always a healthy one.


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## moonbeam78 (Oct 11, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> Could it be that your therapist identified certain traits that are present in your relationship dynamics, rather than just your wife?


This. 100%. Any other interpretation is incorrect and reflects on my initial comments. In retrospect I should not have made those comments without being 100% clear.

Thanks everyone for your input. Lots for me to process.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

moonbeam, thanks for coming here and sharing. My first thoughts were, well, gee, why is it all about him? My h is bi polar and often depressed and I used to do all I could to keep him cheered up and occupied and he cheated on me, it's a long story. . . he had a health issue that left him with a significant residual problem (ED) and he said if he loved me, he wouldn't have it. Anyway, reading your posts I can see how he felt, that no matter how much I was doing and no matter how much he was the center of my universe, it wasn't enough to make him happy. But unlike him, you have sought help and advice and I see your lightbulbs going off over your head, and I think you've done this because you're a fair person and probably love your wife and deep down know how much she struggles with life anyway, but still shows up to support you MOST of the time.  I wish you Godspeed and thank you for affirming for me that my husband had other options than cheating had he chosen to exercise them. 

And I do think it is nice that you really DO seem to be interested in genuine assistance and other ways to look at the situation. Your wife probably isn't mad at YOU at all; she's probably just stretched so thin from the situation that one more thing put her over the edge, albeit temporarily. Best wishes.


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## moonbeam78 (Oct 11, 2015)

TeddieG said:


> moonbeam, thanks for coming here and sharing. My first thoughts were, well, gee, why is it all about him? My h is bi polar and often depressed and I used to do all I could to keep him cheered up and occupied and he cheated on me, it's a long story. . . he had a health issue that left him with a significant residual problem (ED) and he said if he loved me, he wouldn't have it. Anyway, reading your posts I can see how he felt, that no matter how much I was doing and no matter how much he was the center of my universe, it wasn't enough to make him happy. But unlike him, you have sought help and advice and I see your lightbulbs going off over your head, and I think you've done this because you're a fair person and probably love your wife and deep down know how much she struggles with life anyway, but still shows up to support you MOST of the time.  I wish you Godspeed and thank you for affirming for me that my husband had other options than cheating had he chosen to exercise them.
> 
> And I do think it is nice that you really DO seem to be interested in genuine assistance and other ways to look at the situation. Your wife probably isn't mad at YOU at all; she's probably just stretched so thin from the situation that one more thing put her over the edge, albeit temporarily. Best wishes.


Thank you for your compassion and well thought out response. I have never thought of myself as a selfish person, but the various perspectives here have been enlightening.

And yes I'm hung up assumptions, because with depression, no two stories are the same. And it is naturally something for me to get defensive about. There are commonalities across depression, but yes I'm hung up on that idea without dumping an entire back story into one thread :/


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No two stories are the same, but the RESULT of living with a person with depression ARE the same. That's all we're trying to get you to see. You came here upset with your wife for not being supportive enough. But she's been supporting you the whole time. You took it for granted. We all do. BTDT. But to then be upset with HER because she didn't - perhaps couldn't - continue to ramp up her support, especially when you tell her you might kill yourself and leave her, DESPITE all the support she's been giving you...we're just trying to help you understand that, by now, SHE is starting to feel hopeless, too.

Try to understand that depression MEANS being selfish because you're retreated into your OWN world, focusing on yourself 24/7, thus you can't be there for anyone else. It's not a dis against you; it's an explanation of what depression DOES to you. And if it's a lifelong thing...well, you can imagine what it's like to live with someone who is only capable of brief, temporary, fleeting moments when they lift their head up and actually see and acknowledge the people around them. I'm sure you love her, but to her, it might be akin to loving and caring for a paraplegic: she loves you, but when does it get to be about her?

And assumptions issues indicate that you are hyper-sensitive about what people think about you. That's something you can be working on with your therapist; might even be a breakthrough for you.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I'll add to turnera's post that you also discounted and/or ignored that she was going through a difficult time of her own - she just lost a job and was moved to another one and needed your support. She needed YOUR support during this time, and you didn't notice or even think she should be offered support because her losing her job didn't seem like a big deal to you. That's why she snapped at you - she was already stressed out and on her own with that.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Hope it's OK to post links here:

Saw this in the news today and thought of all of us struggling...

Just something interesting to perhaps bring up to your doctor.

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...ampaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=2050


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

kag123 said:


> Hope it's OK to post links here:
> 
> Saw this in the news today and thought of all of us struggling...
> 
> ...


Interesting article, kag. All the info on inflammation, infections, and immunity responses made me wonder what role antibiotics play, and wonder if there is a connection to gut bacteria as well. The research they've been doing lately on gut bacteria seems like the bacteria might be controlling us rather than the other way around, even in terms of personality and mood.

Link Found Between Gut Bacteria And Depression | IFLScience

Maybe one day we'll be smart enough to know which gut bacteria control what in our bodies and brains, and can modify it with pro-biotics or other types of gut bacteria transfers.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

norajane said:


> Interesting article, kag. All the info on inflammation, infections, and immunity responses made me wonder what role antibiotics play, and wonder if there is a connection to gut bacteria as well. The research they've been doing lately on gut bacteria seems like the bacteria might be controlling us rather than the other way around, even in terms of personality and mood.
> 
> Link Found Between Gut Bacteria And Depression | IFLScience
> 
> Maybe one day we'll be smart enough to know which gut bacteria control what in our bodies and brains, and can modify it with pro-biotics or other types of gut bacteria transfers.


Here you go, the home version. Throw the blender away when you're done. >

Warning for the squeamish, don't click that link.


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## karazy (Aug 31, 2015)

I feel that you need to give your wife a break.

She was going through a very stressful change and if she were married to someone without depression, he would have been emotionally available to help her through her hard times. Sadly, in your circumstance, she had to handle her own emotions and stress and has to also worry about you on a daily basis which is a lot for a person considering how long you have depression. It feels like you expect her to let go of herself and that her problems are not as important as yours. 

I don't think it's fair that your therapist doesn't understand her situation, or rather,
Perhaps he/she knows more about your marriage than we do.

Is your wife the cause of your depression? There isn't enough information about your marriage.

I think it would be wise for you to separate from your wife as it would do the both of you some good. You need to work on yourself as suicidal thoughts are very dangerous and your wife needs a break from your episodes.

Don't listen to your therapist until your wife also sees your therapist and tells her side. Your therapist only hears your side and is helping you make decisions that might be biased.


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