# Moral responsibility



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Been thinking recently in regards to responsibility, how much responsibility to accept etc... particularly in two comparative scenarios which did cause a few debates in the past:

1) Friend with benefits arrangements - honesty in terms of intentions. The argument in favor of refusing brunt honesty is in relation to the spontaneity of the encounter (and potential awkwardness of explaining the intention if not explained correctly). Another argument is that *someone who is foolish enough to think casual sex comes with responsibility to commit had it coming to them*.

2) Gold diggers - honesty in terms of intentions. The argument in favor of refusing brunt honesty is in relation to the blurred line of financial stability vs materialism. Wealth is attractive, that much can't be denied. However, how is either spouse to know if they are only attracted to them for his/her money or not (as sometimes it's rather blurred)? Furthermore, another argument is that *someone who is foolish enough to expect love from an obvious gold digger had it coming to them*.

Another thread sparked my thoughts in this regard as it seems the world is always out to take advantage of genuine and perhaps naive individuals, who are simply; too nice. A third scenario made me think:

3) Sex with married spouse knowing they are married. The argument in favor of refusing the responsibility of the breakdown of the marriage is in relation to the fact that *"if it's not going to me, it's going to be someone else."*

Looking back at those three scenarios the bolded seems to be all excuses and refusal of moral responsibility. And if everyone followed the attitude of the bolded, the world would be darker than it already is. This has led me to re-evaluate my past justifications for sleeping with a married woman during my youth knowing that she was married.

I know I have argued in favor of not accepting the responsibility in number 3's scenario. However, it turns out... meh
Thoughts? Am I just growing a conscience? Come on you jedis and sith lords, I'm back on the fence when it comes to my moral compass - help me!


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Well... it's up to us all to try and make fools see the error, because _what they do impacts _on many more people than themselves. Otherwise it wouldn't matter.

For example, successful gold-digging recruits more gold-diggers, making it harder for everyone else

people having affairs with married people makes it harder for the rest of us to trust each other... IMO, the 'girlfriends' and wannabe gigolos who boast about cheating need shooting, not encouraging 

However, when it's been explained several times on many occasions and even demonstrated to them that they're going down the wrong path, then

"As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool returns to his folly"

- Proverbs, bible.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Sandfly said:


> Well... it's up to us all to try and make fools see the error, because _what they do impacts _on many more people than themselves. Otherwise it wouldn't matter.
> 
> For example, successful gold-digging recruits more gold-diggers, making it harder for everyone else
> 
> ...


just like I campaign against women who want to be "just friends" with men. those arranagements adversely affect other women.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Sandfly said:


> Well... it's up to us all to try and make fools see the error, because _what they do impacts _on many more people than themselves. Otherwise it wouldn't matter.
> 
> For example, successful gold-digging recruits more gold-diggers, making it harder for everyone else
> 
> ...


To break it down, people will need to poke their noses into other peoples business and get them caught in some of these transgressions. Far too long, people turn an eye to it and keep their mouth shut and it's allowed to develop.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Been thinking recently in regards to responsibility, how much responsibility to accept etc... particularly in two comparative scenarios which did cause a few debates in the past:
> 
> 1) Friend with benefits arrangements - honesty in terms of intentions. The argument in favor of refusing brunt honesty is in relation to the spontaneity of the encounter (and potential awkwardness of explaining the intention if not explained correctly). Another argument is that *someone who is foolish enough to think casual sex comes with responsibility to commit had it coming to them*.
> 
> ...


Way to go, Random! Especially this: 

_And if everyone followed the attitude of the bolded, the world would be darker than it already is._

That's what it's really about.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Philat said:


> Way to go, Random! Especially this:
> 
> _And if everyone followed the attitude of the bolded, the world would be darker than it already is._
> 
> That's what it's really about.


I just wanted to add. With the gold-digger terminology, many were just ignorant to how dangerous it can be, and how bad it can be for you.

You have to consider. Some of us are here because our spouses don't care about us enough, some never did and we didn't know!


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

A mouse occasionally finds free cheese, but almost always it's associated with a trap. Same thing goes for the "friends with benefits" thing. If all you want is cheese, it's best to carefully nibble and run.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> A mouse occasionally finds free cheese, but almost always it's associated with a trap. Same thing goes for the "friends with benefits" thing. If all you want is cheese, it's best to carefully nibble and run.


Alot of it always was traps. Some of the prices you pay were within what you were willing to do though, so it works out.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I think we're always responsible for hurting others, even if we didn't mean to.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I think we're always responsible for hurting others, even if we didn't mean to.


Especially if we didn't mean (=intend) to, but know that it could happen.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Faithful Wife said:


> I think we're always responsible for hurting others, even if we didn't mean to.


Unless we can convince them it's really their fault ...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Deejo said:


> Unless we can convince them it's really their fault ...


Yeah, way too much of that happening . . .


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Faithful Wife said:


> I think we're always responsible for hurting others, even if we didn't mean to.


While I do agree with this, I'm more of a 'how much' rather than so black and white.

So, like in the scenarios posted, if I was completely upfront about it all and they brought in expectations that weren't offered, while I might feel sorry for them because it hurt, I don't feel all that responsible because why it hurt was due to their secret little contract they brought into it making it into something it was never intended to be.

I'd feel quite a bit stronger about the married woman though. Because I would feel some moral obligation to recognize and respect the BH's feelings as a unknowing third party I'm screwing over, but am aware of as well as probably how he'd feel about this.... so there was a lie, an omission, etc. that I took part in. There'd be a lot of guilt.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> Originally Posted by *RandomDude* 1) Friend with benefits arrangements - honesty in terms of intentions. The argument in favor of refusing brunt honesty is in relation to the spontaneity of the encounter (and potential awkwardness of explaining the intention if not explained correctly). *Another argument is that someone who is foolish enough to think casual sex comes with responsibility to commit had it coming to them*.


 In the name of not being stupid/ so obviously seeing how sex can fvck up lives... I actually feel as the bolded myself...... but not every person is taught like this.. some really are innocent and do attach emotional strings *believing the best in people*..(Pollyanna's out there) if the guy was KIND & they enjoyed themselves / shared some conversation...had a nice date..

If a young girl has not be taught how the majority of men's LUST hormones operate in their youth, I would consider it a grave grave dis-service to her...her 1st taste of being tossed aside like a used rag... though I think many would argue with me saying most women today don't even want strings... they are just like the boys...

I'm going to say...this isn't always true...and far too little has been taught about our emotions in the sexual to our young people, it's all about condoms, STD's & safe sex (meaning no pregnancy ....the rest be damned)....

The price of hurting someone (even if they are stupid, clueless, have romantic notions) is just the cost of choking your own chicken. But then with women's emotions, you can't really win..you have a good chance of getting slapped too... and a rumor mill of what a Di** you are -even if you didn't get [email protected]#$

I distinctly remember this one little story here....when the guy let her know he only wanted sex...she hauled off & slapped him.... I was thinking ...well damn....at least he was honest! 



> 2) Gold diggers - honesty in terms of intentions. The argument in favor of refusing brunt honesty is in relation to the blurred line of financial stability vs materialism. Wealth is attractive, that much can't be denied. However, how is either spouse to know if they are only attracted to them for his/her money or not (as sometimes it's rather blurred)? *Furthermore, another argument is that someone who is foolish enough to expect love from an obvious gold digger had it coming to them*.


 Oh my goodness, I would say this too! I think all men should start their date with a coupon to weed them out (no, really I am kidding!...well maybe). I always consider Rich men foolish who get entangled with these types & get burned....all they see is HOT HOT HOT...gimme some of that...they wine & dine them.... so what can you do...they are just as guilty as the gold digger almost for lowering their standards of what a woman is made of...He wants her body, she wants his wallet...removing the Love & attachment, honest friendship & all that - they are both foolish..it's just the guy stands to loose a lot more in the long run. 



RandomDude said:


> Another thread sparked my thoughts in this regard as it seems the world is always out to take advantage of genuine and perhaps naive individuals, who are simply; too nice.


 We can thank my sons's delinquent Roommate dilemma for that little bit of entertainment. Oh he is just fine...then there is Me... 



> 3) Sex with married spouse knowing they are married. The argument in favor of refusing the responsibility of the breakdown of the marriage is in relation to the fact that *"if it's not going to me, it's going to be someone else."*


Best to put yourself in the shoes of the unsuspecting spouse....don't go there.. you will feel better doing the right thing, plenty without "vow strings" to be laid....plus you might be hunt down and killed..it's like Road Rage, be careful how you handle it, you might be on the receiving end of a mad man who is ready to end his own life so maybe he'll just take you along for the ride. 



> I know I have argued in favor of not accepting the responsibility in number 3's scenario. However, it turns out... meh
> Thoughts? Am I just growing a conscience? Come on you jedis and sith lords, I'm back on the fence when it comes to my moral compass - help me!


I googled Moral compasses... have you grown up a notch or 2 ...where are you ? 









I have been wanting to do a thread on Ethics/ Morality ...what has become very popular today is called







...
In a nut shell >>


> *Moral relativism teaches that there are no absolute moral truths..*.what is true for you may not necessarily be true for me. It believes and teaches there is no right or wrong, good or bad. Essentially, moral relativism says that anything goes, because life is ultimately without meaning. Words like "ought" and "should" are rendered meaningless. In this way, moral relativism claims to be morally neutral.
> 
> Have you ever heard a statement such as "Just because you might think something is wrong, that does not mean everyone thinks it is wrong" or "But that is just YOUR opinion"? Clearly, there are certain issues where everything IS totally up to personal preference. For example, some people may choose to use ketchup on a hamburger while others may prefer mustard. Some may choose both. Others may not like hamburgers at all. However, there are many issues that are far less trivial.
> 
> ...


I've hammered this out in my own head.. I consider myself a *Moral Realist *>> Moral realism says that good & bad, right & wrong, exist in some fashion in this world, and independently of things like social customs, beliefs, or opinions. On the other hand, moral realism does not propose something as simple as a list of commandments delivered directly from God! Moral realism is the middle ground between the theological theories and moral relativism, and is the most common approach of philosophers. Taken from this article >> Ethics


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

My compass is spinning and I'm a little lost, realising that I left my rather troubled youth to escape a world of selfishness and survivalism only to find a much larger world of selfishness and survivalism under guises of self-confessed morality - and being part of it.

Sex without love, money without love, seems people can be content with that. Most don't even bother to be honest with their intentions. Why do I wish for something more?



> Oh my goodness, I would say this too! I think all men should start their date with a coupon to weed them out (no, really I am kidding!...well maybe).


I'm considering resorting to lying about my income and occupation, investing in an old car to weed them out. All my dates thus far I simply can not trust considering they all know I'm established. My wife however, I can trust, as she was with me from the very beginning.

Ne ways quite frankly my whole life is going wrong now, starting to lose both my wife and girlfriend due to indecision, my business taking a turn towards expansion that I don't even want... since quitting alcohol my mind is more switched on, I reflect alot more, question alot more, but also worry and think alot more. Become alot more boring I guess.

Sometimes I wake up these days and think about what if I didn't have my daughter - I would be jumping off a cliff right about now. This world depresses me, and stresses me.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Some would say there is no right or wrong. 

Only what works and what does not work.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> My compass is spinning and I'm a little lost, realising that I left my rather troubled youth to escape a world of selfishness and survivalism only to find a much larger world of selfishness and survivalism under guises of self-confessed morality - and being part of it.
> 
> Sex without love, money without love, seems people can be content with that. Most don't even bother to be honest with their intentions. Why do I wish for something more?
> 
> ...


RandomDude I can appreciate all you have said and you sound quite frustrated and upset. 

All is not as it seems only your mind makes it so. 
Be careful of assumptions and catastrophic thinking. Life is not as serious as your mind makes it out to be. 

As far a jumping off a cliff goes or indeed taking your own life if that is what you are talking about here (?) I would like to say that even being half serious about that is not funny. My Dr. informed me that some of his patients left notes with happy faces drawn at the end. If you are having these kinds of depressed, stressed and suicidal thoughts get yourself some help buddy. Now is not soon enough. Talk to someone like your Dr etc. It's okay to ask for help when you need it. Depression is real it ain't just a case of the blues.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Nah I won't, I have my daughter to keep me alive no matter what happens when I wake up, even though she stresses me as well. I'll be alright I guess.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Been thinking recently in regards to responsibility, how much responsibility to accept etc... particularly in two comparative scenarios which did cause a few debates in the past:
> 
> 1) Friend with benefits arrangements - honesty in terms of intentions. The argument in favor of refusing brunt honesty is in relation to the spontaneity of the encounter (and potential awkwardness of explaining the intention if not explained correctly). Another argument is that *someone who is foolish enough to think casual sex comes with responsibility to commit had it coming to them*.
> 
> ...



Everytime I read your posts I think " This guy has no morals and is on the high end of the narcissists curve. You're on to something here but you have a long way to go.


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