# Wife has wiped her memory of a past BF!!!



## rocky_209 (Nov 10, 2015)

Hello All,

I have been with with my wife for 15 years together for 20. A couple of years into our marriage, we got on the topic of past lovers. My wife had 1 boyfriend who she never had sex with, but they did fool around with oral and touching. This is what she told me. A few weeks ago we started talking about this again. Now she claims she has no memory what so ever of ever doing anything with this guy other than him touching her down there. She wont deny other things, but insists that she has no memory at all of anything else. 

I was beside myself, WTF you mean you have no memory. She swears up and down on everything she cant remember. Is this possible? Has anyone have a similar experience? I can see if she had multiple boyfriends she might not remember the first, but he was her first and I her second. How does one wipe their memory like this? I would like to know.I **** my self in the 4th grade, I want to erase this memory forever too.

I cant find anything on the internet (yes I know not to believe everything on there) that talks about women wiping their memory clean like this.

Any help would be much appreciated.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
why does it matter?


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> why does it matter?


I second this.


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## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

Sometimes we forget the things that are not a big deal enough to leave a lasting impression on us. Seems like it was a bigger deal to you than her.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I've forgotten some of the things I did with my first couple of girlfriends. It was years ago, and while some of those things were probably firsts for me, I can no longer remember them. It's not important to me, really, and memory is a fickle thing anyway.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Maybe she just doesn't want to tell you...or deal with having to answer endless questions about what happened.


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## rocky_209 (Nov 10, 2015)

truster said:


> Sometimes we forget the things that are not a big deal enough to leave a lasting impression on us. Seems like it was a bigger deal to you than her.


Yes I agree as well truster, but something like that....how does a memory like that vanish? Yes it was a big deal to me, we both agreed that we would know each others past so we could move forward and not be bothered by it. So if I didnt know at that time, I would assume that nothing ever happened if I just heard it for the first time.....thats would be a lie then. It just dont sit well with me.

Thanks for the reply


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## rocky_209 (Nov 10, 2015)

jb02157 said:


> Maybe she just doesn't want to tell you...or deal with having to answer endless questions about what happened.



If she doesnt want to tell me I told her its fine if you dont want to talk about it. All of my questions were answered the first time....in my mind I was not planning on any further questions.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

So you want to know about what happened with her and this boyfriend which was at the very least, 20 years ago?

Wow.


I have girlfriends that I don't remember if we were sexual.

Heck, I have girlfriends that I no longer remember. 

Why is this such an issue for you? What's triggering you about this?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

rocky_209 said:


> I have been with with my wife for 15 years together for 20. A couple of years into our marriage, we got on the topic of past lovers. My wife had 1 boyfriend who she never had sex with, but they did fool around with oral and touching. This is what she told me.
> 
> *A few weeks ago we started talking about this again*.


Why? Why did you start talking about some guy she dated 20 years ago and what specifically they did?

I don't really remember things from 20 years ago, certainly not specific touches.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I don't remember most of my ex's names or what we did together. 

Hell, some of them I'm not sure I knew their names to begin with. 

So what?

I have found its a good thing when a woman forgets her former lovers. It means they no longer exist to her. 

Because, well, you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

marduk said:


> I have found its a good thing when a woman forgets her former lovers. It means they no longer exist to her.
> 
> Because, well, you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


THIS.

Yea, I'm with everyone on this. WHY? You already knew about it, WHY now? WHY did it come up? WHY do you allow something that has such little significance take up so much space in your head? WHY are you hounding her about something she obviously cares so little about that she doesn't remember?

I'm being genuine here. I don't even come close to understanding. At all.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

P.S. You are very highly likely thinking up a problem that doesn't even remotely exist. Not a good thing.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

rocky_209 said:


> If she doesnt want to tell me I told her its fine if you dont want to talk about it. *All of my questions were answered the first time....in my mind I was not planning on any further questions.*


But.....?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

I agree with others this isn't all that surprising. I was married once 20 some years ago and it only lasted 3 years. It was annulled and I go back and forth on even counting it. But to say the least I forget often I was even married to her. That was literally a lifetime ago. And if I think about it it seems like it happens to someone else and not even me. I couldn't possibly be more different in all aspects now than I was then. So if I can forget about a mistake marriage I'm sure your SO could forget about some sexual encounter .

We remember the things that are important to us. This obviously wasn't


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## rocky_209 (Nov 10, 2015)

norajane said:


> Why? Why did you start talking about some guy she dated 20 years ago and what specifically they did?
> 
> I don't really remember things from 20 years ago, certainly not specific touches.



While we were dating I had gotten HPV. I wasnt with anyone else during that time. I questioned her about then, but she didnt know and since she was a virgin I just let it go. Fast forward.....currently she has some type of infection (seems like yeast infection or something) which gave me some irritation on my genitals...so that triggered a memory of my genital warts. I did research on it and the type that I had gotten was transmitted by sex. She was the only one I was with at the time. 5 months after we started having sex is when I had my outbreak. 

So this is what led up to me asking her a little more detail on what was going on back then.

I guess I dont understand the memory part because mine is so good I can recall conversations we had. She could recite the exact date when we first had sex but cant remember what she did? It just dont make sense to me. It was about a year between her first BF to when we had sex. Those two dates are so close.

Thanks for the question. Hopefully this clears up some question as to why I am asking now after so long.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Wolf1974 said:


> I agree with others this isn't all that surprising. I was married once 20 some years ago and it only lasted 3 years. It was annulled and I go back and forth on even counting it. But to say the least I forget often I was even married to her. That was literally a lifetime ago. And if I think about it it seems like it happens to someone else and not even me. I couldn't possibly be more different in all aspects now than I was then. So if I can forget about a mistake marriage I'm sure your SO could forget about some sexual encounter .
> 
> We remember the things that are important to us. This obviously wasn't


My wife used to occasionally grill me about my ex wife. 

"What was sex like?" "Why did you love her so much?" "What was her body like?" And so on. 

I always tried to answer her questions honestly and completely but tactfully. But honestly, it feels like another lifetime ago.

Especially because that relationship is now whitewashed with a solid coat of suck. 

So I finally asked her why she wants me thinking about her so much. Why would she want me to think about her body or what sex was like or why I loved her?

So she pretty much stopped after that. It still comes up every once in a while but not so much. 

OP, why do you want her thinking about other men?

Because that's what you're asking her to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Rocky,

My W gave me a watered down story two years ago or so, of the story she had told me years ago, she now claims nothing happened with OM-1. 

Ultimately when my last child graduates from college this will be resolved, in the meanwhile I will be speaking with OM-1 again to get his side of the story. Did you consider speaking with the other involved party?

On a more serious note, did you consider that your W may have been communicating with this man through the years, is he on her facebook etc. This could be the source of her reluctance to talk about him.

I suspect my W refuses to say anything for fear that once she start talking the full truth will come out.

It is important for you to resolve this as well because your W is lying to you.

Tamat


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## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

Rocky, I suspect trickle truth at play here. Oh, and welcome to the nuthouse. Avowed member here.


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## rocky_209 (Nov 10, 2015)

Tamat,

I did consider talking to him. I need to find someone else besides me to get the details. Honestly I don't think he would tell me anything much. I knew him long before I knew her....small world what were the odds of that. Anyways we didn't hang out back then he just knew who I was and stayed clear. I looked on Facebook for him but didn't find anyone in her friend list or anything. Me personally wouldn't go snooping any further than that. 

Thanks for the reply

Rocky


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

TAMAT said:


> Rocky,
> 
> My W gave me a watered down story two years ago or so, of the story she had told me years ago, she now claims nothing happened with OM-1.
> 
> Ultimately when my last child graduates from college this will be resolved, in the meanwhile I will be speaking with OM-1 again to get his side of the story. Did you consider speaking with the other involved party?


He should speak with someone that his wife was with before she met him over 20 years ago to ask exactly what they did together? 

If anyone called me to ask what I did with their now wife 20 years previously the second word would be "off". 

I feel a TAM "let's blow this out of all proportions" coming here ........



> On a more serious note, did you consider that your W may have been communicating with this man through the years, is he on her facebook etc. This could be the source of her reluctance to talk about him.


And here it is. She won't tell him something that in all honesty is none of his dam**d business so she has to be cheating on him. It's so obvious. 

Well here on TAM it is, not in the real world though.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

rocky_209 said:


> Tamat,
> 
> I did consider talking to him. I need to find someone else besides me to get the details. Honestly I don't think he would tell me anything much. I knew him long before I knew her....small world what were the odds of that. Anyways we didn't hang out back then he just knew who I was and stayed clear. I looked on Facebook for him but didn't find anyone in her friend list or anything. Me personally wouldn't go snooping any further than that.
> 
> ...


If he has even a shred of decency about him he will tell you nothing.


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## rocky_209 (Nov 10, 2015)

WonkyNinja,

Thanks for your reply, but I believe it is my business. If I was told one thing and I find out another that is deceitful. That information could have been vital to me to decide if I wanted to continue a relationship with her at that time, before I got married and had kids. Remember we both agreed to be honest up front. This could of all started with a lie. That dont sit well with me.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Rocky,

If you got an STD from your W and she claims to have never had sex, or in this case never mucus membrane to mucus membrane contact with anyone, she could very well be lying. STDs have to come from somewhere.

Your W may still be feeling the decades long guilt of giving you an STD.

HPV | HPV and Cancer | Human Papillomavirus | CDC HPV is not a trivial infection!

Tamat


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

rocky_209 said:


> WonkyNinja,
> 
> Thanks for your reply, but I believe it is my business. If I was told one thing and I find out another that is deceitful. That information could have been vital to me to decide if I wanted to continue a relationship with her at that time, before I got married and had kids. Remember we both agreed to be honest up front. This could of all started with a lie. That dont sit well with me.


I just don't follow. ...what exactly is it that you think she lied to you about? Being a virgin?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

TAMAT said:


> Rocky,
> 
> If you got an STD from your W and she claims to have never had sex, or in this case never mucus membrane to mucus membrane contact with anyone, she could very well be lying. STDs have to come from somewhere.
> 
> ...


OR, he could have gotten it from HIS previous partners. 

AND, he could have given it to his wife.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

Wow..20 years...a boyfriend? Plus...20 years..just.

No words dude..no words


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## rocky_209 (Nov 10, 2015)

Hey Lila,

I don't know what she lied about or if she lied. She told me some details back then, and since my irritation, I would like to know those details again. How could she have gotten HP?. She never had any outbreaks that I seen. I feel like she don't want to say because she cant really remember what she originally said to me, and if it deviates greatly from what she said there's going to be some problems.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

HPV:



> HPV is estimated to be one of the most common sexually transmitted infections in Canada and around the world. Any person who is sexually active can get the virus. Studies show that approximately 75% of sexually active men and women may acquire an anogenital HPV infection, at some point in their lives. Most HPV infections occur without any symptoms and go away without treatment within two years.
> 
> The types of HPV that cause anogenital warts (mostly HPV-6 and HPV-11) are spread by skin-to-skin contact, usually during vaginal, anal, or possibly oral sex with someone who has this infection. *It is possible, however, to become infected with the virus without having penetrative sex if you come into contact with an infected area (skin-to-skin) in the anogenital region. HPV is more likely to be transmitted when warts are present, but the virus(es) can be transmitted even when there are no visible warts.*
> 
> It is possible to be infected by more than one type of HPV at a time.


What Everyone Should Know About Human Papillomavirus (HPV): Questions and Answers - Public Health Agency of Canada - Infectious Diseases

Chances are you had HPV before you ever touched her, bub.

Like, you know, almost everyone does.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

rocky_209 said:


> WonkyNinja,
> 
> Thanks for your reply, but I believe it is my business. If I was told one thing and I find out another that is deceitful. *That information could have been vital to me to decide if I wanted to continue a relationship with her at that time, before I got married and had kids. *Remember we both agreed to be honest up front. This could of all started with a lie. That dont sit well with me.


But you said this: 



> I have been with with my wife for 15 years together for 20. *A couple of years into our marriage, we got on the topic of past lovers.*


So you didn't even ask about her past lovers for 7 years, not until *after* marriage. 

You said she didn't deny that other things may have happened, but she doesn't remember them now, 20 years later. 

WHY are you looking for reasons to be upset?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

rocky_209 said:


> Hey Lila,
> 
> I don't know what she lied about or if she lied. She told me some details back then, and since my irritation, I would like to know those details again. How could she have gotten HP?. She never had any outbreaks that I seen. I feel like she don't want to say because she cant really remember what she originally said to me, and if it deviates greatly from what she said there's going to be some problems.


YOU had other sex partners. YOU probably were infected before having sex with your wife.


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## Popcorn2015 (Sep 10, 2015)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> why does it matter?


Asking a man not to care about his wife's sexual history is like asking a woman not to care about her husband's ability to support a family. Yes, some don't care. But it's normal to care.

Having said that... OP, you've been happily (?) married for 15 years. Suppose it turns out that your wife lied, and she really did have sex with her BF 20 years ago. What next? Are you going to end the marriage over that?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

rocky_209 said:


> Hey Lila,
> 
> I don't know what she lied about or if she lied. She told me some details back then, and since my irritation, I would like to know those details again. How could she have gotten HP?. She never had any outbreaks that I seen. I feel like she don't want to say because she cant really remember what she originally said to me, and if it deviates greatly from what she said there's going to be some problems.


Were YOU sexually active in any way, shape, or form prior to becoming sexually active with your wife? From the cdc site:
STD Facts - HPV and Men



> *What is HPV?*
> 
> HPV is the most common sexually transmitted infection. HPV is a viral infection that can be spread from one person to another person through anal, vaginal, or oral sex, *or through other close skin-to-skin touching during sexual activity*. If you are sexually active you can get HPV, and *nearly all sexually active people get infected with HPV at some point in their lives*. It is important to understand that getting HPV is not the same thing as getting HIV or HSV (herpes).
> 
> ...


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## hotshotdot (Jul 28, 2015)

norajane said:


> TAMAT said:
> 
> 
> > Rocky,
> ...


Yes, it very likely was from OP's previous partner - the CDC fact sheet states there's no way to know when you contracted it as it could have been years prior to having symptoms. 

You need to drop this issue with your wife. Are you really willing to throw away 20 years over something that may/may not have happened & there is no way for either of you to prove it did/didn't?? That's just borrowing trouble if you ask me. Consider yourself lucky that this is the "issue" that threatens your marriage, other people have bigger problems.


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## rocky_209 (Nov 10, 2015)

Sorry norajane, 

That is a typo, it should have been 2 years after we started dating.

And i agree that I could have possibly been the one with HPV first, I dont know I dont deny it, but this to me is besides the point. The HPV is what triggered me asking its not what I am pissed off about. For the record I dont see myself throwing 20 years away over this, but I can be pissed no?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

rocky_209 said:


> Sorry norajane,
> 
> That is a typo, it should have been 2 years after we started dating.
> 
> And i agree that I could have possibly been the one with HPV first, I dont know I dont deny it, but this to me is besides the point. The HPV is what triggered me asking its not what I am pissed off about. For the record I dont see myself throwing 20 years away over this, but I can be pissed no?


I honestly don't see what you have to be pissed about. 

She had a bf. She doesn't remember now, 20 years later, what they did. So what?


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## rocky_209 (Nov 10, 2015)

I respect your opinion norajane,

It matters to me. She can recite the exact day we first had sex one year after her BF but cant recall details of what she did. Hard for me to swallow and let it go. Ill let it go, but I want the truth. Just because it was before we were legally married I should let it go. No, we were committed from the start. Ill lie to her today and tell here 20 years from now, I can bet she will be pissed of too, but that will be acceptable because were legally married now. Lying is something she knows I cant tolerate. Iam upset about this, if I even look at another woman I show her exactly who and what I was looking at. Im not angel, but I dont lie to her.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

NO, you can't be pissed. YOU ALREADY KNEW THESE THINGS 15-20 YEARS AGO. So you're allowed to be pissed now because she got a yeast infection or bacterial vaginosis? That CAN be passed to a dude but NEITHER are classified as an STD??? 

I mean, you absolutely can be pissed if you want, but it is one of the most counterproductive things I have ever seen in a relationship. You sound like you just want an excuse to be pissed. 

HPV is so incredibly common, in fact EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has ever had any kind of wart anywhere on their body has had HPV. There are different strains of it, but it's all the same thing, basically. I've never understood why the genital kind is more taboo than others. (Kinda like cold sores are ok, but OH NOOOOOS, the genital [email protected]!^%!!!!) Yes, I have known women to have and lose the battle to cervical cancer, but almost all of them didn't perform their yearly checkups and it was found too late. Almost every single woman I know (and I know plenty) has had at least one abnormal pap, which is said to be caused by HPV. It's EVERYWHERE. And doesn't cause problems unless it is ignored.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

But has she really lied? Or does she not want to tell you (again) the same details (again) that she told you before, because you will (obviously) make a huge deal of it and she doesn't want to be bothered by trivial stuff?


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

And I apologize for coming across strong, but this is one thing that really gets me. You are entitled to your feelings, absolutely. BUT so is she. And that's what some people forget on this subject a lot of times.


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## rocky_209 (Nov 10, 2015)

GA HEART,

ITS not about the HPV or the yeast infection as I stated before. Its the fact that I asked a second time about which she already told me about once. All I asked was basically please could you repeat what you told me before. You told me once it wont break your mouth to just tell me again would it? BUT now there is no memory of anything that happened? Just tell me what you told me then, yes there may be slight variations it was a long time ago, but just tell me and I wont ask you again. That is what bothers me.


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## rocky_209 (Nov 10, 2015)

GA HEART said:


> But has she really lied? Or does she not want to tell you (again) the same details (again) that she told you before, because you will (obviously) make a huge deal of it and she doesn't want to be bothered by trivial stuff?


OK I could understand if she told me hey I really dont want to talk about that subject....fine I can let it go...But to tell me she has no memory of doing anything at all is what upset me.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

I am understanding what you are saying. I still don't understand WHY it matters except now it has become a "thing." It has blown up into a battle of ego. You want her to repeat herself. If she doesn't, you get to be angry.

What is the true issue here? You have mentioned you wanting to repeat herself. You have mentioned not knowing enough about her past to be able to make an informed decision about marriage and kids. You have mentioned her lying about not being able to remember. What is the real issue?

From an outsiders view......it looks like your insecurity that's the issue. I'm not accusing, just trying to get you to dig a little deeper here.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

rocky_209 said:


> GA HEART,
> 
> ITS not about the HPV or the yeast infection as I stated before. Its the fact that I asked a second time about which she already told me about once. All I asked was basically please could you repeat what you told me before. You told me once it wont break your mouth to just tell me again would it? BUT now there is no memory of anything that happened? Just tell me what you told me then, yes there may be slight variations it was a long time ago, but just tell me and I wont ask you again. That is what bothers me.


Yes you will. The way you are behaving over this (i.e being convinced that only she could have given you HPV despite having no symptoms or outbreak herself) she knows darned well that if she recounts a single minor detail different to what she told you before you'll be screaming liar in an italian nanosecond. 

Why should she repeat basically what she already told you unless you are looking to find a difference in her story? After 20 years she has zero chance of recalling every detail on what and when. 

This almost sounds like you are looking to find a bail out excuse. 

If not then why are you trying to destroy your marriage over something that wasn't your business 20 years ago and still isn't today?


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## rocky_209 (Nov 10, 2015)

Yes I suppose it has become a thing. I feel like she dont want to say because she dont recall exactly what she said. Yes I agree we all have a little ego, but I also know when I am out of line (in my opinion obviously). If she wont repeat herself what am I to think? Oh well? 

The real issue...I dont know the truth it what bothers me. It seems to me like she is lying yes. If she told me she wasn't a virgin it might have changed my mind. I was very clear of my past before hand, it was up to her to decide if she wanted to be with me. I didn't try to lie and present myself as innocent. I am the type of person who doesn't like to share everything is the best way I can think to say it without sounding like an a-hole. I dont like hearing people talking crap of how they were with my wife first. But she also had that same opportunity to make that decision if she felt the same way.

I can assure you that I am not insecure at all. We will endure, I wasn't asking anyone if I should leave her. Just venting and asking people of their opinion to get their view other than mine and hers.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> I can assure you that I am not insecure at all. We will endure, I wasn't asking anyone if I should leave her. Just venting and asking people of their opinion to get their view other than mine and hers.


And you got a lot of people telling you they don't remember who/what/details from 20 years ago. But you still WANT to believe your wife is lying about...something.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Rocky,

I understand one component of your unease, and that is that you might not have married your wife or would have forgiven and married your wife had you had the full story back in the day. It feels like a long hidden lie nullifies the years during which it was held.

In a sense when it is asked at the wedding ceremony "does anyone here know any reason why these two should not be married", it was incumbent on your wife to speak up about herself.

It's not so much that her being dishonest justifies a divorce as it justifies an annulment.

Tamat


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
OP: if you had learned that your wife had had sex and engaged in a variety of sexual activities with a former partner before you met, would you have decided not to marry her?

A lot of people try to avoid hurting their partner's feelings so that they lie a little. I've told my wife that sex with a former girlfriend wasn't very good. That's actually a lie - it was great - she was was enthusiastic and loved doing oral - something my wife hates. Should I tell my wife that, or should I fib a bit and tell here that sex with other women was just OK, nothing like what I have with her?

In the same way I don't want my wife to tell me she had better lovers in the past. Since I don't really want to know, I don't ask.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

My oldest son was born over 14 years ago. I remember everything. My husband does not...and he was completely coherent the whole time, and in the O.R. with me. Same with the birth of our daughter, 9 years ago. Our youngest, he was not in the O.R. He was at the hospital, but he remembers none of it. And it isn't because it was traumatic, either. He remembered for years, then all of a sudden, no memory of it. So, yes, it absolutely CAN happen that she has forgotten what she told you, and even what exactly happened. You had the discussion years ago. The only reason you brought it up was because she has an infection of some sort and now you are suspicious because you got it, too. As others pointed out, it's more than likely that YOU gave it to HER, if anything. You can claim you are not insecure all you like, but your words and actions say otherwise. Stop beating your wife up (metaphorically). Just because YOU have the memory of an elephant, doesn't mean SHE does. Good grief.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

I'm typically impressed when my wife remembers something that happened last week....20 years ago..forget it.

You do realize that memories, real ones, not lies...change over time in minute ways? Stories change over time with the telling...while lies...they are typically constant rarely changing unless the person really sucks at lying. Lies have more detail than real memory. Especially about something that long ago

Just food for thought...that and what are you really upset about?


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

rocky_209 said:


> Yes I suppose it has become a thing. I feel like she dont want to say because she dont recall exactly what she said. Yes I agree we all have a little ego, but I also know when I am out of line (in my opinion obviously). If she wont repeat herself what am I to think? Oh well?


Unless she is some sort of mind recall genius she probably doesn't recall exactly what she said. Has it occurred to you that if what she recalls is correct but your recollection of what she said differs she still gets called a liar? It probably has occurred to her. 



> The real issue...I dont know the truth it what bothers me. It seems to me like she is lying yes. If she told me she wasn't a virgin it might have changed my mind. I was very clear of my past before hand, it was up to her to decide if she wanted to be with me. I didn't try to lie and present myself as innocent. I am the type of person who doesn't like to share everything is the best way I can think to say it without sounding like an a-hole. I dont like hearing people talking crap of how they were with my wife first. But she also had that same opportunity to make that decision if she felt the same way.


You don't like to share everything but you seem to think that she has to share every detail of what she did and with who to you. 

What is this 6th grade? "I had your wife before you, nah na na na nana". 

How do you think she would feel if all the women you were with before came and said the same to her? 



> I can assure you that I am not insecure at all. We will endure, I wasn't asking anyone if I should leave her. Just venting and asking people of their opinion to get their view other than mine and hers.


If you carry on your current course I think the decision on whether you leave her or not will not be yours to take. You need to drop this now to save your relationship and if you can't you need to get counseling.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

OP, this may come as a huge surprise to you, but the human brain is vastly different between one individual and another.
Memory formation and retention is a highly unique function that reflects someone's values and their need to form coherency and to focus on what's important to them in life.

If everyone remembered everything 100% of the time we would all go absolutely nuts.

I was shocked to discover that not everyone (actually hardly anyone) has a memory like mine.
It was the biggest gain I had in therapy, this recognition.

Here I was thinking that everyone could remember stuff like I did. They don't.
Most people just move on with life and the past becomes a sort of blur, for the most part, except for significant events that matter for that person.

She shared a memory with you and it became yours. It's important to you, but obviously not to her.
Now she is going to have a memory of you being disturbed that she can't remember, and that you keep bringing it up as thought it's supposed to matter to her. 

You should be concerned about forming these NEW (and negative, undesirable) memories with your wife that focus on her past. 
They will be more damaging than a memory she doesn't have, and obviously doesn't care about having.

Let it go. That is, stow it under lock and key. 
Immediately. I think you will suffer for it. Needlessly.

Memory management is probably the most important form of censoring that a human being can do if they want to live a sane and healthy life. Or have a sane and healthy marriage.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

find another hill to die on, man.

This one ain't worth fighting over... especially when you're the one with a dog that won't hunt.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

rocky_209 said:


> Sorry norajane,
> 
> That is a typo, it should have been 2 years after we started dating.
> 
> And i agree that I could have possibly been the one with HPV first, I dont know I dont deny it, but this to me is besides the point. The HPV is what triggered me asking its not what I am pissed off about. For the record I dont see myself throwing 20 years away over this, but I can be pissed no?


It was 2 yrs after you began having sex that you had your first outbreak? If you were both monogamous for 2 yrs, one of you brought the infection into the relationship. 

Have you had more outbreaks since then and has she had any? Did you see a physician? How do you know she was a virgin? Did she start taking BC for the first time when you started having sex? Has she been a good wife and mother? Has she proven to be what you wanted when you decided to marry her. 

You are concerned about honesty and I would be too. Everyone has a right to choose the type of person they spend their lives with and have children. I am assuming that you let her know who you were before marriage and did not hide anything. The number of partners that you had unprotected sex increases the risk of infection with the virus. 

Also risky behavior, like having sex with sex workers, ONS, picking up women in bars. When you consider that the risk of infection is associated with partner number, you have to factor in your partners numbers too.


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## Popcorn2015 (Sep 10, 2015)

WonkyNinja said:


> something that wasn't your business 20 years ago and still isn't today?


No, it really was his business 20 years ago. He had a right to know her history before choosing to get married to her, and if she lied to him about it, that was wrong. 

Frankly, I find it hard to believe that a woman who has supposedly only had sex with one man her entire life can't remember if she got to 2nd or 3rd base with the previous boyfriend. Now, if she'd had a bunch of previous lovers, I could see how memories could get confused.

But, again, there isn't much OP can do here. He's not going to break up a 15 year marriage over this, nor should he. His wife is sticking to her "amnesia" story and probably *wants *to forget about the old boyfriends. There isn't any magical technique in the evidence thread which can find the truth about what she might have done 20 years ago.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

rocky_209 said:


> Tamat,
> 
> *I did consider talking to him. I need to find someone else besides me to get the details. *Honestly I don't think he would tell me anything much. I knew him long before I knew her....small world what were the odds of that. Anyways we didn't hang out back then he just knew who I was and stayed clear. I looked on Facebook for him but didn't find anyone in her friend list or anything. Me personally wouldn't go snooping any further than that.
> 
> ...




Are you serious? Dude, you are so over reacting it's gone from funny to sad.

What difference does it make? Honestly, answer that question? What if she did everything with him except vaginal penetration by his penis. Everything. So the f*** what? This was 20 years ago! Twenty! 

For the record I don't remember a LOT from high school. I have snips and pieces and that's it. 

If you can't find a way to let this go, you may as well pack up your testicles and hand them over to your wife because you will have lost all credibility as a confident man. You are now an anxiety ridden worry wort needing a mommy to sooth your fears. That's how unattractive it is when a man gets so ridiculous about his wife's extremely tame past.

Get over it and get on with your life.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

@Anon Pink, better start writing everything down now. God forbid you, or I, or any woman *gasp* forgets anything from our past! Obviously, she *must* be lying because she can't recall something from 20 years ago. 20 years ago... I was 20. I can't even remember which college I attended that year. I must be hiding something, right? 
We should have known the standard "she must be lying" would be brought out, thus validating OP original position. Ugh.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Rocky,

If your W was involved with someone else while you were dating her then it is a enormously different issue, than someone before you dated her.

As far as what you can do now.

(1) Polygraph

(2) Speak with the OM let him know that his honesty will bring forgiveness

(3) Speak with the OM tell him your W confessed and again his honesty will bring forgiveness

(4) See if you can find diaries or letters from that time your W may have saved.

(5) Speak with friends of your W from that time period.

(6) Snoop to see what she is doing now, there is a chance she has contacted OM to get their stories in line.

You might want to research how long it takes from contact on average to get an HPV outbreak, there may be statistics which will help you decide how much to confront.

Tamat


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

rocky_209 said:


> Hey Lila,
> 
> I don't know what she lied about or if she lied. She told me some details back then, and since my irritation, I would like to know those details again. How could she have gotten HP?. She never had any outbreaks that I seen. I feel like she don't want to say because she cant really remember what she originally said to me, and if it deviates greatly from what she said there's going to be some problems.


If these are new symptoms after 20 years, why are we not talking about an affair?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

SecondTime'Round said:


> If these are new symptoms after 20 years, why are we not talking about an affair?


She's got a yeast infection not herpes.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Omg....Tamat, the previous boyfriend wouldn't be an OM unless she was seeing him WHILE dating/married to Rocky. Good grief! I just *LOVE* these posts assuming the worst about this woman. Fact: they talked about this 20 years ago. Fact: she told him it was touching and oral. Fact: HE had an outbreak of genital warts/HPV and SHE did not. Fact: from what he has said, it appears she has not tested positive for HPV in the 20 years they have been together, has never had an outbreak. Fact: she now has what appears to be yeast infection or bacterial vaginosis. Fact: he has some sort of irritation as well, likely transferred from her infection. Fact: he asked again, for some stupid reason. Yes, I said stupid. It was stupid asking about something from 20 years ago, all because he got her yeast infection or whatever it is.

And now to the FICTION: She was OBVIOUSLY lying about her experience because she doesn't remember something that he remembers her saying. Here's a thought... maybe he THOUGHT she said it and his memory isn't as good as he seems to think it is! If I was his wife, I would be asking, again, how many women he had sex with, particularly how many times he had unprotected sex. And make him try to remember which one he got genital warts from. But, please, continue crucify in his wife. She is obviously lying to him, right? Ugh.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

OP, 
Is she with you every night?

Does she open up honestly with you about the things concerning you both in your marriage?

Has she done anything out of character that makes you suspect she's been unfaithful?

Do you really want to know the details of what happened 20 years ago?

I'm not saying get over it/dont pry, but rather than create meaning and drama where there is none currently, what's your actual, tangible goal in finding out the details of her past relationship?


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Maricha,

You wrote, *I just LOVE these posts assuming the worst about this woman.*

I would have suggested the same were it a woman writing about her husbands long ago affair. I do not buy into the notion that boys will be boys and should be forgiven for cheating. 

I can only advise him what I have done, considered doing and will do. 

Do you have a sense that women are punished or shamed more than men are for having an affair. 

Tamat


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

TAMAT said:


> Maricha,
> 
> You wrote, *I just LOVE these posts assuming the worst about this woman.*
> 
> ...


Oh my gosh this is ridiculous. This wasn't an affair. This was a boyfriend she had prior to a relationship with her husband. And, 20 years ago!!!


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

TAMAT said:


> Maricha,
> 
> You wrote, *I just LOVE these posts assuming the worst about this woman.*
> 
> ...


You are ASSUMING she had an affair! That usn't even being brought into question EXCEPT by some of the men on this thread. The ONLY thing he said is he doesn't understand how she can forget the details of a sexual encounter (oral and/or touching, only) that happened BEFORE they even started seeing each other. The ONLY people bringing up the notion of her potentially cheating are you and a couple other men here. Nearly everyone here has said it is VERY possible that she doesn't remember what he does. But you insist that she MUST be lying to him, she needs to have a polygraph, he MUST speak to her boyfriend from over 20 YEARS ago. 

Now, IF there was a question if infidelity, OTHER than what you and a couple others are insinuating, I would agree. And I would agree if it was a man having an affair, as well. But there is NO indication this is the case, at all... except in the minds of you, and a few others. The majority here, INCLUDING quite a few men, have indicated that Rocky is... well... off his rocker if he follows the path you are sending him. And he would be. I just hope he wakes up before doing something stupid.

ETA: And you also suggested that he snoop to see what she may have written in diaries BEFORE they were even dating. Are you effing kidding me? Look at her private thoughts from BEFORE they met? I'm sorry, but no. Unless she shared those journaks/diaries from that time with him, he has no business looking at them. For the record, I would say that about ANYONE'S journals from before marrying his/her spouse, including my own/my husband's. I wrote a lot of ridiculous things when I was a teenager, very embarrassing. I damn well know I wouldn't share that with my husband, had I kept them. My daughter, yes, so she could see that I was just as "ridiculous" as she back then. But no, I wouldn't let my husband read them, nor would I expect to read his. Your suggestions are ridiculous. There is NO indication she is, or has been, having an affair. You are putting ideas into his head. YOU are doing this, not her.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

TAMAT said:


> Maricha,
> 
> You wrote, *I just LOVE these posts assuming the worst about this woman.*
> 
> I would have suggested the same were it a woman writing about her husbands long ago affair. I do not buy into the notion that boys will be boys and should be forgiven for cheating.


I T W A S N ' T A N A F F A I R . 

Is the grammar and vocab simple enough for you?


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Rocky,

You can also DNA test the kids.

Tamat


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

TAMAT said:


> Rocky,
> 
> You can also DNA test the kids.
> 
> Tamat


And polygraph her too! Off to the polygraph I say! Tally Ho!


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

TAMAT said:


> Rocky,
> 
> You can also DNA test the kids.
> 
> Tamat


Seriously? Did you really just suggest he DNA test his kids? Really? 
It takes all kinds...


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> And polygraph her too! Off to the polygraph I say! Tally Ho!


He suggested that, already. You are a bit behind.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> He suggested that, already. You are a bit behind.


Hmmm...did he suggest hiding a VAR ON the polygraph machine? Bet he didn't think of that. Or maybe getting the polygraph machine tested for STD's? That way you know the polygraph isn't cheating.


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## amber74747474 (Oct 24, 2015)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> OP: if you had learned that your wife had had sex and engaged in a variety of sexual activities with a former partner before you met, would you have decided not to marry her?
> 
> A lot of people try to avoid hurting their partner's feelings so that they lie a little. I've told my wife that sex with a former girlfriend wasn't very good. That's actually a lie - it was great - she was was enthusiastic and loved doing oral - something my wife hates. Should I tell my wife that, or should I fib a bit and tell here that sex with other women was just OK, nothing like what I have with her?
> ...


Never lie it's more hurtful if you EVER decide to be truthful IT'S BEST TO NOT LIE TELL HER you LIKE ORAL ALOT 


rocky_209 said:


> Yes I suppose it has become a thing. I feel like she dont want to say because she dont recall exactly what she said. Yes I agree we all have a little ego, but I also know when I am out of line (in my opinion obviously). If she wont repeat herself what am I to think? Oh well?
> 
> The real issue...I dont know the truth it what bothers me. It seems to me like she is lying yes. If she told me she wasn't a virgin it might have changed my mind. I was very clear of my past before hand, it was up to her to decide if she wanted to be with me. I didn't try to lie and present myself as innocent. I am the type of person who doesn't like to share everything is the best way I can think to say it without sounding like an a-hole. I dont like hearing people talking crap of how they were with my wife first. But she also had that same opportunity to make that decision if she felt the same way.
> 
> I can assure you that I am not insecure at all. We will endure, I wasn't asking anyone if I should leave her. Just venting and asking people of their opinion to get their view other than mine and hers.





TAMAT said:


> Rocky,
> 
> I understand one component of your unease, and that is that you might not have married your wife or would have forgiven and married your wife had you had the full story back in the day. It feels like a long hidden lie nullifies the years during which it was held.
> 
> ...


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

rocky_209 said:


> I guess I dont understand the memory part because mine is so good I can recall conversations we had. .


The reason you don't understand this is because you see the world as YOU are; and not as IT is. 

Since YOU have a good memory, EVERYONE ELSE should also have a good memory. But the truth is, that SOME people have a good memory, and SOME don't. 

Please try to accept this truth.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> Hmmm...did he suggest hiding a VAR ON the polygraph machine? Bet he didn't think of that. Or maybe getting the polygraph machine tested for STD's? That way you know the polygraph isn't cheating.


Nope, not yet. But he might suggest reading the manual... You know, "just in case" there's something important that wasn't relayed.


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## amber74747474 (Oct 24, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> Are you serious? Dude, you are so over reacting it's gone from funny to sad.
> 
> What difference does it make? Honestly, answer that question? What if she did everything with him except vaginal penetration by his penis. Everything. So the f*** what? This was 20 years ago! Twenty!
> 
> ...


Had to say worry wart lmao


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TAMAT said:


> Maricha,
> 
> You wrote, *I just LOVE these posts assuming the worst about this woman.*
> 
> ...


There was no affair long ago. That's the point. There was no affair. There is no OM.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TAMAT said:


> Rocky,
> 
> If your W was involved with someone else while you were dating her then it is a enormously different issue, than someone before you dated her.
> 
> ...


Adding to the above your suggestion that he DNA his children....

This wins the TAM most absurd post ever award!!!! :surprise:>


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Hey bud......

Memory is a strange beast. 

I can't remember the entire first two years on my sons life. I can, however, remember every single day I spent with my daughter during the first two years of her life. 

It really depends on brain chemistry. I was more brain healthy during my upbringing of my daughter than my son. Sometime your enzymes and hormones can do **** to you. Including wiping out entire blocks of memories. 


I wouldn't think too much about it. Sometimes strange shat happens.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

rocky_209 said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I have been with with my wife for 15 years together for 20. A couple of years into our marriage, we got on the topic of past lovers. My wife had 1 boyfriend who she never had sex with, but they did fool around with oral and touching. This is what she told me. A few weeks ago we started talking about this again. Now she claims she has no memory what so ever of ever doing anything with this guy other than him touching her down there. She wont deny other things, but insists that she has no memory at all of anything else.
> 
> ...


A school friend of mine died 3 years ago from throat cancer.

We contacted many of the people who knew him, our school clique and clubs, his bestie from school, others that we met at his twenty first, and thirtieth. He died aged 45.

Most of them couldn't remember him, or thought the name sounded familiar. His inseparable friend for 4 years included.

Face it to most people, (especially External types on Myers Briggs??) simply don't remember things like that. Their brains overlay the memory pathways with so many more recent concerns, and they just don't "go there" often enough to remember.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

TAMAT said:


> I would have suggested the same were it a woman writing about her husbands long ago affair. I do not buy into the notion that boys will be boys and should be forgiven for cheating.
> 
> I can only advise him what I have done, considered doing and will do.
> 
> ...


1. She did not cheat.

2. Yes, women are punished more. See slvt shaming and find the equivalent for a man. Don't bother, there isn't one.

3. You won't find women posting about their husbands' sexual history because only men get absurdly territorial, retroactively. Only SOME men, only a few men. Women don't do this. Men have -THROUGH OUT history- been given a free pass to get laid as often as possible, to spread their seed far and wide, while women have been shamed into keeping their knees tightly closed.

TAMAT, you seriously need help. I honestly hope you get some...help that is. Your attitude about women probably prevents you from getting laid too often. Women just don't want to have a sex with a man who is going to turn around and slvt shame her for having sex.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Personal said:


> Oh please.... grow up and get over yourself!


The guy in logged on to TAM seeking advice. You seem more wanting to take shots at him.

If it was so simple for him, do you think he'd log in to a forum and post about it.

It bugs him. He's telling you it bugs him. You're telling him grow up. You think that's going to work or be helpful?


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

OP, you have to think of what the information will provide.

Firstly, if you're wife has never been unfaithful you're 99% of the way there.

My guess is because she changed stories you know it's a lie. When I read it, the first thought in my head was that the changed story is because she did not remember exactly what she told you previously and probably figured that you knew exactly what she told you previously. That fact that she told you the story once and you had a conversation about it is an indicator that would jog her brain IMO. 

Next, is there is the chance she lied and had full intercourse with him. I'd even suspect they did as women tend to minimize things.

Now you have to decide. She now won't change her story and all the sudden remember again.

So if she lied and minimized, how are you going to deal with it.
1. You could divorce her
2. You can explain how you feel about and then move on because her story won't change.
3. You can let this eat you alive and most likely hold a grudge and end up with arguments popping up about it randomly.

Those are pretty much your options. 

You need to take control of which direction you want to go. Don't let her story influence you. Stay in control of how you feel. She's probably sleeping well at night while you fret. Don't let that happen.

Go to an individual counsellor if it starts eating at you and impacts your relationship. My guess is you need to go as this seems deep in your head at this point.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

rocky_209 said:


> GA HEART,
> 
> ITS not about the HPV or the yeast infection as I stated before. Its the fact that I asked a second time about which she already told me about once. All I asked was basically please could you repeat what you told me before. You told me once it wont break your mouth to just tell me again would it? BUT now there is no memory of anything that happened? Just tell me what you told me then, yes there may be slight variations it was a long time ago, but just tell me and I wont ask you again. That is what bothers me.


If she did lie about having a penis in her vj instead of her mouth or hand, can you forgive her? I am not minimizing your sense of betrayal but asking you to stop and think. What you are doing is interrogating her to catch her out in a lie. 

Consider the lasting effects on your marriage. More importantly, your wife, the woman you love and who loves and trust you, may be innocent and not deserve your ire. She will not forget this and her real feeling may not manifest for years. 

Before you treat her as if she is guilty of lying, make very sure she is. She won't tell you now because you tipped your hand by getting angry. You approached this poorly so its your fault that you are not getting her to talk. The best you can do now is calm down and wait till things cool off. 

Ask her in a non confrontational way that acknowledges the your need for a talk because of your rekindles memories. Talk about the start of your relationship and the things you did. Reassure her that you love and respect her and how happy you are that you met her. 

Although I agree that lying about important issues like sex is not fair to a potential partner, 20 years should mitigate a great deal. Again she may not have lied. If they were good yrs where you enjoyed companionship, had the joy of parenting children with her and enjoyed her friendship and support, can you weigh the heavily in her favor?


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> 1. She did not cheat.
> 
> 2. Yes, women are punished more. See slvt shaming and find the equivalent for a man. Don't bother, there isn't one.
> 
> ...


That's why you are a woman and not a man.:grin2:

Women do things men don't do as well........

There is a value in chasity. It's reality.

I know a woman friend of mine who started dating a guy. They got on well. As things evolved she found out he was quite the player and it led to the RJ and concerns about so many attractive women he'd been with etc.. So I can refute your theory that women never do it. Needless to say, they are no longer together.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Personal said:


> I'm not taking any shots at all.
> 
> Since it is foolish to encourage irrational anxiety I think what I have written is extraordinarily helpful.
> 
> ...


You'll quickly realize I don't get into tit for tat on here. But your advice to "get over it" is not in the least helpful.

I gave a full accounting in what my view is and now it's rubbish, right? When you are this invested to attack contrary viewpoints that maybe you've lost objectivity. FWIW.

And if instead of attacking perhaps realize I tried to frame it in a "worst case view" so the OP could take step back and see that if those are all the cases he has to decide what he wants out of this. A goal.

He's stuck repeating this in his head. But you're missing it.


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## rocky_209 (Nov 10, 2015)

Thanks to everyone for sharing their opinion.

There is a lot of good information in peoples responses and a lot of irrelevant stuff, but they entitled to their thoughts.

I guess some people hit the nail on the head. Since my memory is so good is the reason I have such a hard time believing this. I can recall most of the students in my 6th grade class, at work I can pull issues from memory that have people baffled as to how I remember certain bits of information, etc, etc.

The point is I guess I never really questioned other peoples memory, people at work, I thought they were idiots because they couldn't recall stuff. To me its normal, my dad and grandfather had similar memory power if you will, it seems normal to me. This is what I was really after if people were to read my original post. I was questioning is it normal to wipe this from your memory. I don't understand it. Yes I am still pissed, OK I get it that people cant recall things from years ago as I can, but it still seems that this would be a memory that shouldn't devolve. I mean, it was a year or less before we first were together that this occurred. How can one remember details of us and stuff like going to clubs getting drinks from men. Yes, that is her memory she has told me recently, she can recall going to clubs and getting drinks after we talked on the phone while we were dating, but cant remember how far she went with the only other guy she was ever with. I don't understand how that memory could get wiped. That all period... forget the HPV and the yeast infection or whatever it may be. Those were memory triggers for me that's all. Yes I could've had HPV first, sure enough.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

rocky_209 said:


> Thanks to everyone for sharing their opinion.
> 
> There is a lot of good information in peoples responses and a lot of irrelevant stuff, but they entitled to their thoughts.
> 
> ...


We're all different, but there are many things I don't recall from my marriage almost 13 years ago. I can't recall specifics except a few very instances that were pretty monumental to me. 

I can't recall specifics of what we did when dating, or how often, or where specifically, but a general idea. 

With my current SO, we are so much more compatible and I'm much more mature. I have several keepsake boxes with things like ticket stubs, fliers, cards, etc., because I WANT to keep things I associated with good memories, and because I love him strongly I have overridden and filled my "memory banks" with memories pertaining to him. The memories of my ex have definitely been "pushed out" over time. Seeing the keepsakes may trigger a stronger remembrance of the event, but again, my memories are rarely ever crystal clear about specifics.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Maybe she doesn't remember him because he wasn't that important to her. If she hasn't revisited her memories of him eventually they get lost. It has been quite a while, after all.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Popcorn2015 said:


> No, it really was his business 20 years ago. He had a right to know her history before choosing to get married to her, and if she lied to him about it, that was wrong.
> 
> *Frankly, I find it hard to believe that a woman who has supposedly only had sex with one man her entire life can't remember if she got to 2nd or 3rd base with the previous boyfriend.* Now, if she'd had a bunch of previous lovers, I could see how memories could get confused.
> 
> But, again, there isn't much OP can do here. He's not going to break up a 15 year marriage over this, nor should he. His wife is sticking to her "amnesia" story and probably *wants *to forget about the old boyfriends. There isn't any magical technique in the evidence thread which can find the truth about what she might have done 20 years ago.


 As one of these women.... I happen to agree with you... I remember every little thing I did with a boy before my husband... it was very little mind you .. as I met my husband in my teens....but those memories never died in me..

But also true... I am one of those people who ENJOY looking back... I always took many pictures .. I cherished those in my life.. memories of youth & all.. got a thing for nostalgia I guess.. I can' t imagine ever forgetting a "1st love" .. and how that unfolded. But I guess everyone is different .



spotthedeaddog said:


> Face it to most people, (especially External types on Myers Briggs??) simply don't remember things like that. Their brains overlay the memory pathways with so many more recent concerns, and they just don't "go there" often enough to remember.


 Just noticed this post..I agree with this.. it's likely a temperament thing...and we're not all the same..


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

rocky_209 said:


> Thanks to everyone for sharing their opinion.
> 
> There is a lot of good information in peoples responses and a lot of irrelevant stuff, but they entitled to their thoughts.
> 
> ...


You just put something VERY relevant here. You don't understand how something that happened a year or less before you got together is gone from her memory. Keep in mind, the first time you discussed this, it was fairly fresh in her mind, and VERY early into your relationship. She remembered, easily, because it was more recent. Based on what you posted above, in bold, I would say YOUR relationship overshadowed anything with this old boyfriend. It was within a year of you getting together, and her focus is on YOU. You wonder why she remembers getting drinks at a club. She told you that, too, if you pay attention to what you posted. That memory is also associated with YOU. She went after talking on the phone with you. All of her memories from that part of her life center around you. And you think she's lying.

You can remember your 6th grade class?? I'm doing good if I can remember 5 of them. But, now you know that many people just don't have the photographic memory you do. Hopefully, you keep this in mind when speaking with your wife...

And stop calling your coworkers idiots because they don't remember what you do. Honestly, they could think this of you because you remember the most insignificant details. They probably roll their eyes, thinking "Here we go again... Mr. Know-it-all." Food for thought.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

jdawg2015 said:


> That's why you are a woman and not a man.:grin2:
> 
> Women do things men don't do as well........
> 
> ...


So she realized that that he considered women and sex to be a conquest and move on sort of thing and she didn't want to become another notch in his bedpost that he can dump and move along from once the novelty has worn off. His previous actions do show what sort of person he is, and likely will be again.

If you only see a value in women having chastity then you are confirming exactly what Anon Pink put in her post. 

My problem with this guy is that if his wife does recollect that she had sex with the boyfriend then he is going to be screaming that she is a liar and deceived him into marriage while completely ignoring his total hypocrisy in judging her to a standard that he can't hold himself. If she sticks to the same story then he isn't going to believe her anyway.

I'm having serious sympathy for his poor wife who hasn't done a thing wrong to deserve this. I think he's looking for an exit excuse so he can point the finger of blame at her when he goes.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

OP

I wonder if this might help you:

These thoughts about your wife are troubling you because you love her.

Show her your love by making her feel loved.

Raking up things from twenty years ago is clearly not going to do that. 

Focus on your love for her and move on from the past.

Good luck


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## hazel55 (Oct 30, 2015)

Well I was in a similar situation to your wife. I only had 2 boyfriends before I went married, but was a virgin when I got married. I cannot remember exactly what we did or didn't do as well. That said, I barely remember my wedding night ( sad, I know...) My husband seems to remember all of our sexual encounters.. I just nod and say, "oh, yeah..." because I don't want to hurt his feelings. But I honestly, don't remember very many of our encounters... I only seem to remember things we have pictures of and/or I wrote about them in my journal which obviously wouldn't apply to sexual encounters. My memory really stinks.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

How is your relationship in general? I can't imagine that it is untroubled. Your feelings about people you consider inferior to you because they don't possess your God-given talents seems smug. Do you lord your talents over your wife? 

Your refusal to consider that your wife may be innocent and unlike you, lacks a recording memory is rather hard. Your over the top anger and unfounded assumptions has no basis. Are you like that always. 

Why are you discussing this? You know the answer. Are you stoking your anger to a fever pitch so you can explode in righteous anger? The question is what are you going to do about her deception and refusal to confess? 

I asked you question in a post upstream. You did not answer. You don't have to answer every post bit my questions would require thought and perhaps ameliorate your feelings. That's not what you want. You want to degrade your wife with unfounded accusations of deception.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

WonkyNinja said:


> So she realized that that he considered women and sex to be a conquest and move on sort of thing and she didn't want to become another notch in his bedpost that he can dump and move along from once the novelty has worn off. His previous actions do show what sort of person he is, and likely will be again.


I was very familiar with both people. The guy had a history of being with a lot of women but he definitely was not playing her. That I know for sure.

So is a player the male equivalent to a female being called a ****?

What you posted bolsters the point of my previous point. The guys chastity became an issue and in this case caused the woman to devalue him. See how it works both ways? I hope you realize the irony of your post.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Catherine602 said:


> How is your relationship in general? I can't imagine that it is untroubled. Your feelings about people you consider inferior to you because they don't possess your God-given talents seems smug. Do you lord your talents over your wife?
> 
> Your refusal to consider that your wife may be innocent and unlike you, lacks a recording memory is rather hard. Your over the top anger and unfounded assumptions has no basis. Are you like that always.
> 
> ...


I was ok with everything you posted until the part about unfounded accusations.

You do realize that lying is usually revealed by a change in story right? They had a very specific conversation about this, as her spouse obviously he recalls it vividly. 

Just pointing out that she could be telling the truth or she could be lying. You are making assumptions calling his questions/accusations as unfounded. Only she knows.... It is what he's trying to unmask.

So now he has to decide the end result he seeks. Live with it or harp on it. I personally think counselling may be of benefit here or this could fester and destroy and otherwise good marriage.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jdawg2015 said:


> I was very familiar with both people. The guy had a history of being with a lot of women but he definitely was not playing her. That I know for sure.
> 
> So is a player the male equivalent to a female being called a ****?
> 
> What you posted bolsters the point of my previous point. The guys chastity became an issue and in this case caused the woman to devalue him. See how it works both ways? I hope you realize the irony of your post.


I think that the point that was being made is that women are slvt shamed in this manner for more often then men.

It's really quite rare for a woman to go on about their partner's sexual past and to use it to shame and/or emotionally beat up the man.

It's pretty common for men to do that to their wife/gf. 

The OP on this thread is only several thread by men on this forum on this topic in the last few weeks alone.

There are no such threads by women do something similar to their partner.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I think that the point that was being made is that women are slvt shamed in this manner for more often then men.
> 
> It's really quite rare for a woman to go on about their partner's sexual past and to use it to shame and/or emotionally beat up the man.
> 
> ...


Actually anon pink posted that women never have RJ, etc. 

No doubt it's more of a male issue than women. So for a woman to just smack and call it rubbish, lunacy, and the whole gamit of terms she used, it not only lacks sensitivity but also shows she doesn't understand the genesis of why the OP feels the way he does.

It's like me trying to understand what it's like to be an amputee. Until I'm in their shoes I would not understand no matter how many times they explained. Several woman posters in this thread are falling into this mode of thinking.

Thank god I have not had RJ but I can definitely understand the OP's dilemma. If my wife changed stories on this I'd probably start to wonder why...... 

This is not about right/wrong it's trying to help the OP be objective.

Women do things men don't and vice versa. If we followed some logic given in this thread we'd just post the text "Get over it" on the home page and close the forum. One answer for all


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jdawg2015 said:


> Actually anon pink posted that women never have RJ, etc.
> 
> No doubt it's more of a male issue than women. So for a woman to just smack and call it rubbish, lunacy, and the whole gamit of terms she used, it not only lacks sensitivity but also shows she doesn't understand the genesis of why the OP feels the way he does.
> 
> ...


The reason that Anon and others have responded as they did is because women are getting sick and tired of the double standard. The OP did a lot more before marriage than his wife. Yet now 20 years later he wants to grill her about something that she probably honestly does not remember. And if she does remember things about that relationship that was over 21 years ago, she knows better than to answer the questions now.. why? Because the OP is going to hold it to saying 100% exactly what she said 20 years go... every minor detail must be the same or he's going to use it against her. 

He even stated in one post that he had HPV at some point and was blaming her for it. He has an extensive sexual history but was wanting to blame her for it. And how that she has a normal infection that most women get, he wants to dig in her past.

To me it sounds like he's just looking for a reason to be angry at her.

Many people on this thread have said that they cannot recall things like details of relationships that happened 20 years ago. It's very common to forget things that we feel are not important events in our lives. And old bf is not important.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> The reason that Anon and others have responded as they did is because women are getting sick and tired of the double standard. The OP did a lot more before marriage than his wife. Yet now 20 years later he wants to grill her about something that she probably honestly does not remember. And if she does remember things about that relationship that was over 21 years ago, she knows better than to answer the questions now.. why? Because the OP is going to hold it to saying 100% exactly what she said 20 years go... every minor detail must be the same or he's going to use it against her.
> 
> He even stated in one post that he had HPV at some point and was blaming her for it. He has an extensive sexual history but was wanting to blame her for it. And how that she has a normal infection that most women get, he wants to dig in her past.
> 
> ...


If you or anyone else is "sick and tired" of trying to help someone through a problem, sometimes it's better to just move on to another thread?

Do you ever think a good counsellor or psychotherapist would tell a person having this issue to "get over it"?

The double standard is real. So is the double standard in divorce proceedings and who pays. Double standards are everywhere. It's reality. Get over it :wink2:

OP, my suggestion is talk to a counsellor. Does your wife understand fully your anguish? Is this jealousy and/or you having an insecurity that you can freely admit?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

for a lot of people, emotion goes hand in hand with memory. this is especially true of most women. they can usually recall their own internal state much easier than they can details of their surrounding environment. and for everyone, it is the reason why emotionally significant events are very difficult to forget. 

i can remember things that happened when i was two years old, but i cannot always remember what i ate for breakfast. 

a funny thing about past lovers... i could remember every detail of every sexual i had BEFORE i met my wife. nowadays, those memories are pretty vague. but they never went away until i started experiencing some of the same emotions with my wife. if i try to remember how i felt back then, it gets more and more difficult to remember it as having any emotional significance. simply put, i have associated those emotions with too many other memories to be able to distinguish them easily. 

that said, i am certain that if i smelled any of my past lovers again, i would probably remember a lot more since everybody smells very unique to me.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

jdawg2015 said:


> No doubt it's more of a male issue than women. So for a woman to just smack and call it rubbish, lunacy, and the whole gamit of terms she used, it not only lacks sensitivity but also shows she doesn't understand the genesis of why the OP feels the way he does.


Except for one thing... it IS rubbish. We have some on here who are adamant that she is _obviously_ lying. She is _obviously_ hiding something. And why is that? Because she cannot recall something from over 20 years ago. Something that is insignificant to her. It's sad that some are willing to brand her a liar, deceitful, all because she cannot recall something from so long ago. So, yes, it IS rubbish.



jdawg2015 said:


> It's like me trying to understand what it's like to be an amputee. Until I'm in their shoes I would not understand no matter how many times they explained. Several woman posters in this thread are falling into this mode of thinking.


Most, if not all of the people (not just women... there have been men saying the same damn thing), have stated that their memories work much like Rocky's wife's memory. So, that throws out what you brought up right there. Rocky questioned his wife's recollection of events from long ago. We explained to him that it is VERY likely that she doesn't remember. Her memory doesn't work like his. Plus, Rocky even admitted that he thinks of coworkers who don't have photographic memories like his as morons/idiots/*insert any other equivalent insult*.



jdawg2015 said:


> Thank god I have not had RJ but I can definitely understand the OP's dilemma. If my wife changed stories on this I'd probably start to wonder why......


And she really hasn't changed her story. She said she doesn't remember one thing from 20+ years ago. He remembers EVERYTHING. She is not him. 



jdawg2015 said:


> This is not about right/wrong it's trying to help the OP be objective.


No, unfortunately, the agenda of some is quite evident. They are quick to label her a liar, even putting ideas into his head that she is having an affair, or HAD an affair! There is NO indication of that, at all.



jdawg2015 said:


> Women do things men don't and vice versa. If we followed some logic given in this thread we'd just post the text "Get over it" on the home page and close the forum. One answer for all


In this case, yes, he SHOULD just "get over it". Her memory isn't like his. If he continues down the path of some, here, he will end up accusing her of having an affair... all because she doesn't recollect EVERY detail, EVERY conversation, EVERYTHING relating to an insignificant person in her past. But, by all means, keep encouraging him to distrust his wife. Feel free to break up their marriage, based on NO EVIDENCE that she is lying to him or cheating. Knock yourself out.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Maricha75 said:


> Except for one thing... it IS rubbish. We have some on here who are adamant that she is _obviously_ lying. She is _obviously_ hiding something. And why is that? Because she cannot recall something from over 20 years ago. Something that is insignificant to her. It's sad that some are willing to brand her a liar, deceitful, all because she cannot recall something from so long ago. So, yes, it IS rubbish.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Again, the point is she could be telling the truth, she could be lying, or she could be "minimizing". If her, it's entirely possible that she worries OP will in fact zero on on details that she changes.

Calling it rubbish and telling him to "get over it" is about the worst advice I can see to give him. 

You do realize that irrational thought process like this typically can not be solved by yourself? A dose of "get over it" is not going to work. 

You are picking at nits. He's also been given good advice up thread.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

jdawg2015 said:


> I was very familiar with both people. The guy had a history of being with a lot of women but he definitely was not playing her. That I know for sure.
> 
> So is a player the male equivalent to a female being called a ****?
> 
> What you posted bolsters the point of my previous point. The guys chastity became an issue and in this case caused the woman to devalue him. See how it works both ways? I hope you realize the irony of your post.


You described him as a "player". General understanding of that term from Urban Dictionary starts "A male who is skilled at manipulating ("playing") others, and especially at seducing women by pretending to care about them, when in reality they are only interested in sex."

You "may know for sure" that he was not just playing her but she had the sense to see that he had behaved this way in the past and she wasn't going to be the dummy to see if he had changed. If he was serious about her then tough, when you treat others with disdain you shouldn't expect better treatment in return.

It wasn't his chastity that was being questioned it was his selfish use of others.

And Yes, I would devalue a woman who treated men, or any other fellow human in that same way.

The issue being made is that men take number of partners as a matter of pride yet wouldn't want to marry a woman with the same track record.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> The reason that Anon and others have responded as they did is because women are getting sick and tired of the double standard.





jdawg2015 said:


> If you or anyone else is "sick and tired" of trying to help someone through a problem, sometimes it's better to just move on to another thread?


Not what she said at all.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

jdawg2015 said:


> Again, the point is she could be telling the truth, she could be lying, or she could be "minimizing". If her, it's entirely possible that she worries OP will in fact zero on on details that she changes.
> 
> *Calling it rubbish and telling him to "get over it" is about the worst advice I can see to give him.*
> 
> ...


Actually, you're wrong. Telling him she is hiding something, thus he should dig into journals she may have written during the years before him is worse. Inciting paranoia that she has had/is having an affair, thus he must start going through everything she has is even worse. Like I said, there is no evidence except in the deluded minds of some people. All because she can't recall everything she said over two DECADES ago. Smh. Pathetic.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

jdawg2015 said:


> Again, the point is she could be telling the truth, she could be lying, or she could be "minimizing". If her, it's entirely possible that she worries OP will in fact zero on on details that she changes.
> 
> Calling it rubbish and telling him to "get over it" is about the worst advice I can see to give him.
> 
> ...


Why would she change details? Either she doesn't remember because those details are totally insignificant or she doesn't want to give him any ammunition to obsess over and become irrationally jealous about. This irrational jealousy is something almost every woman instinctively guards against. We're probably not even aware we're doing it most of the time. 

I go to the grocery store and I notice a few men looking at me. Do I tell my husband or keep it to myself?

I meet some friends for drinks and we end up talking to other men who are clearly interested. The conversation is relatively brief and I go back to conversing with just my friends. Do I tell my husband?

My husband isn't the jealous type. He isn't threatened because other men are interested in me. I sometimes tell him and make a game of it and sometimes I don't tell him because it was an everyday insignificant thing. Am I with holding and hiding?

OP is having irrational jealous thoughts. He needs to recognize it is irrational and he needs to get a grip. Goading him on by suggesting she's hiding something is NOT helping him. Once he comes to realize that what he is feeling IS irrational, then we can work on helping him deal with it. But until he recognizes it as irrational, there is no helping him.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I just wanted to note that it is so rare that @Maricha75 and I rarely agree so when we do agree you can take it to the bank!


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> I just wanted to note that it is so rare that @Maricha75 and I rarely agree so when we do agree you can take it to the bank!


Bwahahahaha amen to that!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jdawg2015 said:


> If you or anyone else is "sick and tired" of trying to help someone through a problem, sometimes it's better to just move on to another thread?


Sometimes helping someone with a problem is done by giving them a dose of reality. 

Further, it's not your place to tell anyone what threads they can post on.



jdawg2015 said:


> Do you ever think a good counsellor or psychotherapist would tell a person having this issue to "get over it"?


I've been to some counsellors and psychotherapists. And yep, sometimes they tell a person what amounts to 'get over it'. They can help a person figure out how to get over it.

There is by the way at least one type of therapy (one of the most successful by far) that does tell people to get over it and show them how to do that.. Behavioral Cognitive Therapy. Of Freudian psychotherapy is hardly, if ever, used anymore because they found that it's not effective. A person's brain wires according to what they think about. If a person spends years in therapy going over their insecurities, their childhood, etc.. over and over and over or months/years, they end up stuck in those events/feelings for months/years. Get active and do something to change what their brain is thinking about and it rewires the brain. It retrains the brain to a healthier way of thinking. Humans have incredible ability to change their brain, perspective, thoughts, feelings and actions.

Further, I a person wants counseling/psychotherapy from professionals, then they need to go get it from professionals and pay the high fees. 



jdawg2015 said:


> The double standard is real. So is the double standard in divorce proceedings and who pays. Double standards are everywhere. It's reality. Get over it :wink2:


Yes, the double standard is real. It does not mean that we should accept it. It's best to fight against double standards as they harm everyone.

All human societies used to have a double standard that we call slavery. It took a look time, but people fought back against that standard that said that some people could be owned by other people. And guess what... slavery is no longer legal. See the good that fighting back does? I could point out dozens of double standards that people fought against and eventually changed.



jdawg2015 said:


> OP, my suggestion is talk to a counsellor. Does your wife understand fully your anguish? Is this jealousy and/or you having an insecurity that you can freely admit?


This is his problem. It's not his wife's. I agree that if the OP continues with this anguish, that he needs to see a counselor.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jdawg2015 said:


> Again, the point is she could be telling the truth, she could be lying, or she could be "minimizing". If her, it's entirely possible that she worries OP will in fact zero on on details that she changes.
> 
> Calling it rubbish and telling him to "get over it" is about the worst advice I can see to give him.
> 
> ...



Wrong. They are completely solvable by one's self. Anyone can do it by themself. One good book that tells a person how to do this is:

Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy by David D. Burns M.D.

Yes he was given good advice... stop picking on his wife and fix his own problem.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
If she is lying (which is unlikely) it is possible the entire incident is something she really wants to forget. If he was as player, maybe she felt used, deceived, degraded - not because of anything specifically physical but because he manipulated her.


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## Tino28 (Sep 25, 2015)

You need therapy ..15 years ago she married u


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Wrong. They are completely solvable by one's self. Anyone can do it by themself. One good book that tells a person how to do this is:
> 
> Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy by David D. Burns M.D.
> 
> Yes he was given good advice... stop picking on his wife and fix his own problem.


Ele, this has actually festered in him for years. Obviously the previous discussion he had with her was still vividly clear to him. Most likely this is manifested from RJ. Whether it's fair or a double standard about women vs men is irrelevant.

You think reading a book and telling someone "get over it" and poof he'll just snap out of it. I think he needs to talk to an IC. 

TAM is supposed to be about support and understanding. We're all human and not infallible. Instead of vilifying the guy give him some credit he's taken the time to post and sort through things. I get the sense he doesn't want to feel the way he does. Telling him "get over it" in this case I believe is not only unwarranted but counter to the idea of why TAM exists.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Tino28 said:


> You need therapy ..15 years ago she married u


:iagree:


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> Why would she change details? Either she doesn't remember because those details are totally insignificant or she doesn't want to give him any ammunition to obsess over and become irrationally jealous about. This irrational jealousy is something almost every woman instinctively guards against. We're probably not even aware we're doing it most of the time.
> .


Again, as I posted about I have NO idea if she lied, told truth or whatever. I simply gave all scenarios to the OP as a "what if" and decide what outcome he wants. Three of you are now doing internet forum gang up and seem to want to win an argument rather than try and sort the guy out. You're vilifying him and I see it as not helpful.

And if he's jealous she could be minimizing (also a possibility I proposed) just as you said. Again, I laid out the possibilities for the OP. 

The issue for the OP is he CLEARLY has some RJ from the previous discussion to he zeroed in on details. The opportunity to bring it up again in their conversation has resulted in this. 

This has festered in him and I personally think he needs IC. 

Telling him to get over it, if that was all it took, ain't gonna work at this point.




Anon Pink said:


> I go to the grocery store and I notice a few men looking at me. Do I tell my husband or keep it to myself?
> .


Every single time for every tiny little thing nah. 



Anon Pink said:


> I meet some friends for drinks and we end up talking to other men who are clearly interested. The conversation is relatively brief and I go back to conversing with just my friends. Do I tell my husband?
> .


Depends on the conversation and what was said. If they were asking you to dance, trying to buy you drinks, asking for phone numbers, etc then I'd be sharing that with my spouse. I'd need more info.




Anon Pink said:


> My husband isn't the jealous type. He isn't threatened because other men are interested in me. I sometimes tell him and make a game of it and sometimes I don't tell him because it was an everyday insignificant thing. Am I with holding and hiding?
> .


If a guy is interested and you know it then I think it should be out in the open with your partner. This has nothing to do with threats. My question would be why you would be hanging out with someone who's interested in you. Red flag to me. My opinion.





Anon Pink said:


> OP is having irrational jealous thoughts. He needs to recognize it is irrational and he needs to get a grip. Goading him on by suggesting she's hiding something is NOT helping him. Once he comes to realize that what he is feeling IS irrational, then we can work on helping him deal with it. But until he recognizes it as irrational, there is no helping him.


Correct, see what I said above. This has festered a long time. Not a three word "get over it" fix.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Maricha75 said:


> Actually, you're wrong. Telling him she is hiding something, thus he should dig into journals she may have written during the years before him is worse. Inciting paranoia that she has had/is having an affair, thus he must start going through everything she has is even worse. Like I said, there is no evidence except in the deluded minds of some people. All because she can't recall everything she said over two DECADES ago. Smh. Pathetic.


You are trying to make me answer for other posters comments.

You have NO idea if she's lying or not. Neither do I. I laid it the options for the OP of what she could be doing and why. 

Calling posts pathetic, SMH, and other word choices you have chosen to use are quite hostile. 

You guys are not doing him any favors telling him to just "get over it".


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Anyway back to the OP. I thought of how you might be helped. What does help look like for you and will your anxieties be salved by getting some but not all of what you want. What core issues need resolving. It's entirely possible that your wife may never tell you what you want to hear for several reasons, not all involving deception. 

A matrix table of the of two variables memory [yes or no] and vaginal sex [yes or no] has several combinations. She remembers and did have vj sex, she remembers but did not have vj sex; she does not remember and did have vj sex or she does not remember and did not have vj sex. 

She may remember but it does not follow that she had vj sex. She may not remember but it also does not follow that she had vaginal sex. Lack of memory is not an indication of vj sex. 

Unlike your memory, most people have selective memory and therefore it is seldom seldom accurate or complete. You have a gift. Why don't you read about memory. The information may make you be grateful and humble for the gift God gave you and able to behave with dignity and to respect those less fortunate. 

Your wife's memories of fondling may not be considered important enough to take up real estate in her head for 20 years. She may not have realized that her choice to purge useless memories would be the source of your anxiety. 

If she remembers, why does she not tell her you to allay your concerns? Be honest, could it be that no matter what she does or remembers, you will not be satisfied. How well does she know you. 

Yes you should have been told but does this human being deserve to be punished no matter what she has or has not done. Will you accept the truth no matter what it is. You are angry with your wife now and the truth will not set you free, will it? Perhaps she is the one who needs compassion. Can you give to her what you are asking her to give you?

"For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

jdawg2015 said:


> You are trying to make me answer for other posters comments.
> 
> You have NO idea if she's lying or not. Neither do I. I laid it the options for the OP of what she could be doing and why.
> 
> ...


No, I am actually not trying to make you answer for other posters. They can answer for themselves. Unless, of vourse, you actually do believe as they do, even with giving your own suggestions. 

You're right. Neither of us knows if she is lying or not. Based solely on what Rocky has said, as well as how my own memory works, I am inclined to believe she is telling the truth. If you agree, I have no issue with you. If you are unsure about whether she is telling the truth, I still have no issue. What I do have issue with is those who have jumped right into calling her involvement with the previous boyfriend an affair, calling the old boyfriend the OM, when it all happened before she and Rocky even started dating. And, yes, I find it offensive that some jump right on the bandwagon that she is lying/hiding something/cheating, all because he asked a question about something he says she said over 2 decades ago. If you are not a part of that bandwagon, cool. I have no quarrel with you.

As for calling posts pathetic... well, it IS pathetic when they jump to the above mentioned conclusions when they have nothing to support their assertions. As far as "smh" is concerned... lol hostile? Really? What is hostile about incredulity? I honestly sat here, shaking my head because people actually do believe she's lying/hiding/cheating... and nothing posted has proven that position lol.

I disagree that the "get over it" tactic isn't any help. At the very least, it can motivate him to seek professional help. Fostering paranoia, however, only makes him feel vindicated. So... "get over it" or foster paranoia... personally, I see it as a no brainer. But that's just me (and, apparently, the majority of the men and women in this thread).


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

jdawg2015 said:


> I was ok with everything you posted until the part about unfounded accusations.
> 
> You do realize that lying is usually revealed by a change in story right? They had a very specific conversation about this, as her spouse obviously he recalls it vividly.
> 
> ...


What evidence do you have that she is lying?


----------



## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Catherine602 said:


> What evidence do you have that she is lying?


What evidence do you have that she is not? You do realize that's a real possibility, correct?

If you actually review what I've posted I presented scenarios with the end goal of the OP choosing what he wants.

NONE of us will know if she is telling the truth or not. She could have forgotten, she could be lying, she could be telling the truth, she could be "minimizing" as an avoidance method.

I've actually posted this multiple times...

Either way unless she recalls and remembers like the OP does he'll have an issue with it. But instead keep trying to nitpick my posts.....


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

jdawg2015 said:


> What evidence do you have that she is not? You do realize that's a real possibility, correct?
> 
> If you actually review what I've posted I presented scenarios with the end goal of the OP choosing what he wants.
> 
> ...


No, my post was too short to constitute a micro dissection of your post. Nit picking has rigid rules of engagement. The most prominent of which is that the rebuttal document must have a word count of N X 100, where N is the number of words in the picked post.


BTW, you are mistaken. What you see as evidence is simply speculation. You may have assumed that validity increases in direct proportion to the number of times you write it. Actually, I believe it has an inverse relationship.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Personal said:


> What the hell happened to resilience? We do no-one any favours by pandering to the ridiculous.
> 
> While ever men behaving like numpty's think a woman's prior and previous relationships big or small, innocent or ribald belong to them. Women are damned if they tell, damned if they don't, damned if they forget to mention something, damned if their memories change or fade over time and are thus generally damned whatever they do.
> 
> Fortunately not every man has his own head shoved far up his own Khyber Pass!


You are ranting against a common problem which is RJ and you are taking it out on the OP. It's like the radio, if you don't like what's playing you can always change the channel (and ignore threads with this topic).

Something to ponder. I just searched the topic on Yahoo! and Google. It's quite common. Nature is pretty cool in that it generates balance in biology and genetics. With it being a somewhat common issue in men, maybe there's a part of this you won't understand as a woman? And maybe, there is a biological reason for it? Just a thought.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Catherine602 said:


> No, my post was too short to constitute a micro dissection of your post. Nit picking has rigid rules of engagement. The most prominent of which is that the rebuttal document must have a word count of N X 100, where N is the number of words in the picked post.
> 
> 
> BTW, you are mistaken. What you see as evidence is simply speculation. You may have assumed that validity increases in direct proportion to the number of times you write it. Actually, I believe it has an inverse relationship.


Regardless, none of us know if she's lying or not. OP has to deal with it and figure out how to get past it.

I can bet you she will definitely keep her story perfect as this comes up again with the same answer, "I don't remember".


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

OP read this link. I think it's an excellent primer for you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OCD/comments/3oyh06/beat_retroactive_jealousy_top_tips_and_resources/

And for the "get over it" crowd, please read as well. It specifically addresses your viewpoint as well. Challenge yourself, do you want to learn about this or just vilify very guy who posts about his RJ on TAM.

I'm thanking my lucky stars I have not had RJ. I have a friend who got cheated on and I think it's triggered paranoia and RJ into him with each girlfriend since.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

Good post, Personal.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Personal said:


> I'm not particularly impressed by men being ginormous, self-entitled, navel gazing sulks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oh Snap!

Well done Personal!


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## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

Ok friendly posters, go ahead and hate men that suffer from RJ. But you might be surprised that men have feelings too and may not always fit your projections. 

The most well-known case of a sufferer was John Lennon. 

Please proceed with the tribunal.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I don't think of it as hate, that's a strong word full of meaning that doesn't exist here. I think that there is simply a divide of sorts between those that understand and face RJ, and those that understand but do not suffer the effects of RJ. 

My ex H was a very jealous man. Did I push some boundaries in my youth? Yes, I was younger and less wise. I tried to understand, to do what I could to quell his jealousy. Nothing really helped. His jealousy was what it was, and it was his issue. 

Now I'm with a man that knows about my past and appreciates what it's taught me. In his words, he says that if not for those lessons, he may not have felt the same sort of connection and synergy with me. I feel the same way about him. 

I don't expect more "jealous" types to understand, but I do expect them to be clear about what they want in a partner, and choose as wisely as possible to prevent false advertising. If they've been sold a lie, well then they have quite a bit in common with the majority of TAM posters, since many of us know what it's like to be lied to, and perhaps the divide is not that great after all.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

imperfectworld said:


> Ok friendly posters, go ahead and hate men that suffer from RJ. But you might be surprised that men have feelings too and may not always fit your projections.
> 
> The most well-known case of a sufferer was John Lennon.
> 
> Please proceed with the tribunal.


Not one person has said anything about hating anyone who suffers from RJ. Not one person has said men don't have feelings. Perhaps "seek professional help" would have been better than just saying "get over it"? Perhaps, even better, it would have been an excellent idea to NOT put ideas into the head of one suffering from RJ that his wife has been unfaithful, in any way. Perhaps it would have been better to say, "I understand that RJ exists, but you really need to stop dwelling on the fact that your wife's memory isn't like yours." Oh, wait a minute... that WAS stated. Several times. And it wouldn't have had to be mentioned so much had there not been posts insisting that her (in)experience before OP and his wife started seeing each other was an affair. Yes, an affair... never mind the fact that there was no cheating involved at all. And then... you talk about projections. What exactly would you call the posts insisting that she absolutely IS lying to him, hmmm? I'd call that projection, too. Oh, but what really takes the cake was suggesting that the wife is in contact with her old boyfriend, so OP needs to start snooping, and contact the old boyfriend to get it all straight... because, as was previously stated, his wife is lying to him. But, then if they are in cintact, they are trying to get their story straight. But, yes, we obviously hate men with RJ. That must be it. It couldn't possibly be that we want to keep OP from jumping to the conclusion that a few here have done. No, that can't be it. That would make too much sense!


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

RJ is a mental illness. It's mostly associated with obsessive compulsive disorder. The problem I see is that most men who suffer from RJ, would rather blame their suffering on their spouse's sexual history than own THEIR mental illness. Encouraging RJ as "normal" is not productive to the person suffering from it. This isn't a personality trait. It's an illness.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Lila said:


> RJ is a mental illness. It's mostly associated with obsessive compulsive disorder. The problem I see is that most men who suffer from RJ, would rather blame their suffering on their spouse's sexual history than own THEIR mental illness. Encouraging RJ as "normal" is not productive to the person suffering from it. This isn't a personality trait. It's an illness.


There is a difference between actual RJ and simply being uncomfortable, or less than impressed with ones partners past. Along the lines of the difference between actual Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and someone who is just really selfish and thoughtless.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

imperfectworld said:


> Ok friendly posters, go ahead and hate men that suffer from RJ. But you might be surprised that men have feelings too and may not always fit your projections.
> 
> The most well-known case of a sufferer was John Lennon.
> 
> Please proceed with the tribunal.


'Scuse me but did you mean to say that men with RJ are being victimized and judged in some way? I am interested in hearing how you think such men can be helped. Don't concern yourself with the women who are stuck living with these men day after day in a place that should be a safe harbor for them, their home. 

I feel compassion for men who suffer this malady and it's not because I support the basis of their obsession, I don't. It's that they suffer and I hope they can find a way to relieve their suffering.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

It is not pleasant to talk about and she wants to get off the subject. Imagine if she asked you, have you ever had an orgasm with another woman and want you to tell me exactly how you felt. It's a trick question. Leave the poor woman along, she sounds nice, respectfully you may not be the easiest guy, so let it go. No one should have to be interrogated like this. Imagine if a wife says once she had a one night stand and someone asked how do you end up in bed with someone you don't even know, tell me the process, did you think you were a tramp, etc. 

I'd send her some flowers, take her out to dinner, and forget about it.


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## HuggyBear (Aug 4, 2012)

rocky_209 said:


> Yes I agree as well truster, but something like that....how does a memory like that vanish? Yes it was a big deal to me, we both agreed that we would know each others past so we could move forward and not be bothered by it. So if I didnt know at that time, I would assume that nothing ever happened if I just heard it for the first time.....thats would be a lie then. It just dont sit well with me.
> 
> Thanks for the reply


Sometimes when it's not that special, it's not that memorable, either. 

Maybe you need some kind of fantasy to get you through the night, but you won't be getting it from that.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

OP checked out on page 6 and doesn't seem to be reading any more.


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## IamSomebody (Nov 21, 2014)

Personal said:


> Vaginal yeast infections are a common female condition, you would do well to not associate things that happen to your wife with nefarious intent.


Vaginal infections routine occur when a woman is on a broad spectrum antibiotic, eats too much candy/sugar or gets infected by her partner.

IamSomebody


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

lol jdawg just stop. Your point has been moved and lost.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Twenty seems to be the magical number of years around here on TAM for RJ - I've read at least 3 or 4 threads with someone who was married for 20 years find something out (typically minor with no bearing on current relationship and w has been faithful for 20 years) and go completely bat sh*t over it. Coincidence?


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

staarz21 said:


> Twenty seems to be the magical number of years around here on TAM for RJ - I've read at least 3 or 4 threads with someone who was married for 20 years find something out (typically minor with no bearing on current relationship and w has been faithful for 20 years) and go completely bat sh*t over it. Coincidence?


Maybe it's a midlife crisis thing?


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## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

staarz21 said:


> Twenty seems to be the magical number of years around here on TAM for RJ - I've read at least 3 or 4 threads with someone who was married for 20 years find something out (typically minor with no bearing on current relationship and w has been faithful for 20 years) and go completely bat sh*t over it. Coincidence?



Accurate with me to within three months! I'd never heard of or imagined that myself or anyone else could have these types of feelings until they hit me firsthand.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

imperfectworld said:


> Accurate with me to within three months! I'd never heard of or imagined that myself or anyone else could have these types of feelings until they hit me firsthand.


Do you know why this happened? Did your wife do anything to make you unhappy or did your relationship hit a nadir? Do you have any advice that might help the OP.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

imperfectworld said:


> Accurate with me to within three months! I'd never heard of or imagined that myself or anyone else could have these types of feelings until they hit me firsthand.


I'm really sorry you're dealing with this, no one is hating on men who have RJ. 

If you have RJ than you have to come to realize this is a form of anxiety. It becomes an obsession. It is irrational, even though the feelings are quite real. Just like it's irrational that my neighbor will not drive over any bridge for fear of it collapsing. Her fear is real but what triggers the fear is completely irrational. Feeding the fear is wrong. Calling it for what it is, irrational, is necessary.

It's not your wife's fault and she shouldn't be suffering because of your irrational fear. And jealousy is at its essence fear. Fear of not measuring up, fear of not being good enough, fear of rejection. So when you replace the word jealousy with fear of rejection, you come to see it differently.


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## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> I'm really sorry you're dealing with this, no one is hating on men who have RJ.
> 
> If you have RJ than you have to come to realize this is a form of anxiety. It becomes an obsession. It is irrational, even though the feelings are quite real. Just like it's irrational that my neighbor will not drive over any bridge for fear of it collapsing. Her fear is real but what triggers the fear is completely irrational. Feeding the fear is wrong. Calling it for what it is, irrational, is necessary.
> 
> It's not your wife's fault and she shouldn't be suffering because of your irrational fear. And jealousy is at its essence fear. Fear of not measuring up, fear of not being good enough, fear of rejection. So when you replace the word jealousy with fear of rejection, you come to see it differently.


My wife isn't aware that I suffer from RJ. I figured out early on that she was, ironically, the last person on earth who'd be able to help me. I'm baffled when I hear stories about husbands berating their wives because I've internalized the whole thing. That's why I'm sensitive to other posters who are exploring their feelings in the early stages of RJ...maybe some are being nasty to their wives but that's certainly not how I or the few others I've become acquainted with have been.

I wish I could help the OP, but I can't even help myself. I could probably write a ten-page wiki on the subject but it would be bereft of help. Many sleepless nights looking for answers that won’t come.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

@imperfectworld,

I'm very glad to know that you haven't blamed your wife for your RJ. It sounds as if you are really struggling to rid yourself of these thoughts and feelings. Can I suggest you observe RJ as simple anxiety that is structured around a specific topic. Most people are diagnosed with Anxiety NOS, meaning Not Otherwise Specified, just general anxiety. But RJ is anxiety that is specific to a certain theme.

Cognitive behavioral therapy works. If your experiencing sleepless nights as a result, please seek a therapist who specializes in CBT. You can get control of this and rid yourself of these defeating upsetting feelings.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

imperfectworld said:


> My wife isn't aware that I suffer from RJ. I figured out early on that she was, ironically, the last person on earth who'd be able to help me. I'm baffled when I hear stories about husbands berating their wives because I've internalized the whole thing. That's why I'm sensitive to other posters who are exploring their feelings in the early stages of RJ...maybe some are being nasty to their wives but that's certainly not how I or the few others I've become acquainted with have been.
> 
> I wish I could help the OP, but I can't even help myself. I could probably write a ten-page wiki on the subject but it would be bereft of help. Many sleepless nights looking for answers that won’t come.


Imperfect I'm not sure I really know what RJ is. I believe I've made some assumptions that may be inaccurate. 

I have not read your story and I don't think the OP is coming back so I don't think it' would be a thread jack if you gave a short synopsis of what you experienced. 

It would help me and maybe others to be more compassionate and understanding. Perhaps if we had insight into the problem from a person who is not in the early stages it would help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

imperfectworld said:


> Accurate with me to within three months! I'd never heard of or imagined that myself or anyone else could have these types of feelings until they hit me firsthand.


imperfectworld, my friend I've know since HS and he is the guy who has "it". In a room he will be the one 999/1000 women will choose based on looks. He used to ooze edge and confidence.

He wife cheated on him. I was there for the whole thing. He wanted to work it out with her etc. He used to describe how he could not get the idea of his wife and the OM out of his head. Of course since TAM I now understand what mind movies are etc.
They divorced shortly after as he could not get it out of his head.

Today, he's had several girlfriends and one of them said he's a jealous freak. Why? Because for some reason he gets the same visualizations with the new gf like he had with the ex wife.

So I can empathize as watching my good friend deal with this, and given that he has the LEAST reason to be jealous of virtually any man on the planet just shows you how it could happen to any of us.

I can't imagine how much of a **** I would be to tell him to "get over it".

A couple of us have told him to go to counselling but this is where he seems to not listen. 

I don't have the answer for you as to to how to get past it but I do know there are some insensitive people on TAM.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

But she did not cheat. I don't get how being sympathetic to a friend who reacted normally to a cheater has anything to do with RJ. 

That's why I asked the question. I simply don't get it. How and why does this topic inspire so much irrational thought, delusional assumptions, over-the-top hostility towards the wife? I've read post by men who seem otherwise in possession of some sense who seem to go way off the rails. 

In order for these reactions to make sense, there has to be some underlying premiss but I don't know or understand. Can anyone tell me what it is. It upsets me that the wives in these situations are treated so badly. There is little in the way of compassion and sympathy expressed for these beleaguered wives.

Perhaps if more kind words were directed towards the wives of these men, it would remind them of the many gifts they shared with this human being. Appealing to the best in people often brings them the realization that they have a lot to be grateful for. 

For a husband to devalue a wife, who has been with him for decades, over sex seems insane to me. I am certain there are things these men have done that effected their wives and families adversely. What if their wives denigrated them 20 yrs latter over it.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Catherine602 said:


> But she did not cheat. I don't get how being sympathetic to a friend who reacted normally to a cheater has anything to do with RJ.
> 
> Thats why I asked the question. I simply don't get it. How and why does this topic inspire so much irrational thought, delusional assumptions, over-the-top hostility towards the wife? I've read post by men who seem otherwise in possession of some sense go way off the rails on these threads.
> 
> ...


Where did I say the OP's wife cheated? I never have.

I gave that accounting about my good friend because there was a clear trigger for him. Now, every partner since he's wife he has visions of them with previous men. Get it?

In imperfectworld's case? What is it? Vision of his wife with previous BF.

See the commonality? Duh. It's called retroactive jealousy. It's irrational because it's from their partners past. But obviously these guys get stuck on it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Rocky,

I am NOT posting as a 'mod' here. Just a plain old vanilla contributor. 

And in that context I only have one question, and what with it being a small thing, I'm hoping you'll humor me and answer. 

How often do you employ that prodigious memory of yours to think about those other women you slept with and their eventual husbands? You know, the ones before you met your wife? And when you think back to that time, do you feel bad for the husbands who eventually married them? 

Because those husbands - are having to deal with the fact that they - (I believe the term you used was "shared") - shared their wives with you. Maybe some of them sort of feel just like you do right now. Except they feel that way because of something you did. 

See the thing is Rocky, I don't think you've ever spent one minute feeling bad for those other guys. You know, the guys who married the women you slept with before you - settled down. 

And you've kind of made this big point about how honest you are. Sure, you slept around before meeting your wife, but you were honest with her about it. So that makes it ok. But see, it doesn't make it ok for the future husbands of the women you slept with. At least not the ones like you and Tamat. 

Speaking of Tamat. Granted it would be a big coincidence, but maybe Tamats wife was one of your conquests. 

And heck if Tamat's wife is as dishonest as he suspects, maybe they were even married at the time you and his wife - knew each other in the 'biblical sense'. I mean heck, might be a stretch probabilistically, but what if he does a DNA test, it turns out you owe him some back child support. 

I mean gosh, a situation like that, having to write Tamat a lump sum check for 60K worth of back child support, and I'm thinking you're the one ends doing a lot of apologizing and explaining to Mrs. Rocky, instead of the other way around. 

But regardless of how those DNA tests turn out, sounds like you have a bunch of apology letters you ought to write to the guys who eventually married those women you slept with before meeting your wife. 




rocky_209 said:


> Thanks to everyone for sharing their opinion.
> 
> There is a lot of good information in peoples responses and a lot of irrelevant stuff, but they entitled to their thoughts.
> 
> ...


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> But she did not cheat. I don't get how being sympathetic to a friend who reacted normally to a cheater has anything to do with RJ.
> 
> Thats why I asked the question. I simply don't get it. How and why does this topic inspire so much irrational thought, delusional assumptions, over-the-top hostility towards the wife? I've read post by men who seem otherwise in possession of some sense go way off the rails on these threads.
> 
> ...


I agree, often there is still blame directed towards the wife. If she hadn't...... you wouldn't feel that way. Or they talk about it as if it's normal or even make it worse (she probably did this and that and cheated too) and make their wheels spin more. 

I applaud those with RJ who do not let it show towards their wives.
Anxiety is a b*tch but it's totally irrational and has nothing to do with anyone else.

Years ago when my anxiety was really bad I thought I heard a cell phone buzz one time in my apartment. That led to a string of irrational thoughts that ended up with- at some point while I was gone someone had broken into my home and hid in my closet waiting to kill me and I was convinced that if I ever opened that closet door, he would be there and murder me. For whatever reason I felt that if I didn't open the door, he would not come out. This went on for months. I did schooling from at home at this point. I was there 24/7 for days on end and I was still convinced that someone was in there. BTW- even after I had convinced myself it wasn't true, I didn't open that door until I was moving out and had to pack it. I couldn't do it *just in case*

But no one would have told me it's normal to feel that way. No one would have told me stories of their friend who did have someone waiting in their closet to murder me, or other random murder stories, no one would tell me that hearing a buzz is a valid reason to be irrational. 
RJ should be treated no differently than any other irrational and obsessive thinking. Get help, this is not normal and has nothing to do with anyone but yourself.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

jdawg2015 said:


> Where did I say the OP's wife cheated? I never have.
> 
> I gave that accounting about my good friend because there was a clear trigger for him. Now, every partner since he's wife he has visions of them with previous men. Get it?
> 
> ...


Dah Why even bring cheating into the discussion in the first place. It is so completely unrelated to the discussion of RJ. Apparently, it is reasonable to many people because cheating has been mentioned several times. 

As I said, your friends anxiety is understandable and his reaction is what an emotionally sound person could have. So, what's the dah about, what so obvious about the connection between cheating and RJ? 

RJ is not understandable to me, assuming emotional soundness and normal reactions. Is the introduction of cheating into the discussion an attempt to make RJ equivalent to the trauma experienced by LS? 

That would make it seem legitimate and normalize the abnormal wouldn't it? IDK


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the original poster stated what his marriage is like now, and how it was through the years. There is a great deal of missing data here. 

Tamat


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

TAMAT said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the original poster stated what his marriage is like now, and how it was through the years. There is a great deal of missing data here.
> 
> Tamat


You're right, Tamat. He hasn't stated how the marriage is, overall. All we have to go on is what he had stated:

- Wife has yeast in fection.
- Yeast infection triggered memory from 20 years ago, due to irritation on OP genitals, from his wife's infection.
- OP asked wife about a conversation they had 20 years ago.
- Wife doesn't remember something she told OP 20 years ago.
- OP is pissy because his wife doesn't have the same kind of memory he does.
-OP has a habit of making himself appear superior to others, due to his excellent memory (thinks coworkers are morons because they don't remember everything like he does)
- OP thinks his wife is now lying and/or hiding things from him.

Nope, he never said what his marriage is currently like. All we have is the above... as well as a few people insisting that she must be lying/hiding something, even when others have answered his initial question that it absolutely IS possible to not remember things from that long ago.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

TAMAT,
I'm sorry to say, but that's an outrageous suggestion. I mean gosh, if he gives us a full accounting of their marriage, and particularly her contribution to it, we might begin to perceive her as a complete person. 

Heck, if we do that we might delve into her whole life story. The next thing you know maybe we discover that she was in love with the fellow who took her innocence (not Rocky, the guy before him). And they were thinking about getting married, but it didn't work out. Or maybe - terrifying as it is - she likes sex - and the other guy was really hot. You know, sort of like how Rocky had multiple partners before they met because HE liked sex. 

Either way, the danger of this path is we might actually see her as a human being. With fears, and hopes and desires that burn every bit as brightly as a MANS. 

But then, that's the path to ruin. Once we acknowledge that she's human, like the rest of us, it's all over. She ceases to become a cartoonish two dimensional female silhouette that either has its legs open, or closed. 

Once that happens, we lose the ability to lay the entire responsibility for civilizations sexual morality between her gate keeping legs. 

So yeah TAMAT, if you read Rockys post - the thing that's so striking isn't what is there, but what isn't there. 

So let's start with Rocky. He lets us know he had multiple partners but doesn't say how many. You would think that A guy who is so - focused - on his wife's purity index would share his own number. And he would, if it was very low. So the absence of his number, implies at it isn't low. 

The ONLY way this ends ok for him, he gets help from a therapist. Stops inflicting his anxiety issues on his wife. 




TAMAT said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the original poster stated what his marriage is like now, and how it was through the years. There is a great deal of missing data here.
> 
> Tamat


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Catherine602 said:


> Dah Why even bring cheating into the discussion in the first place. It is so completely unrelated to the discussion of RJ. Apparently, it is reasonable to many people because cheating has been mentioned several times.
> 
> As I said, your friends anxiety is understandable and his reaction is what an emotionally sound person could have. So, what's the dah about, what so obvious about the connection between cheating and RJ?
> 
> ...


Seems you are extracting things I have never said nor implied. I never said anything about legitimizing, implied cheating, none of that. You are mixing in other posters comments to what I am saying. My goodness, please stop bringing in red herrings.

I'm just trying to get you to see what they are experiencing. I kinda know only because my friend but only after reading on TAM did I have any idea about a term because of it. Why it stuck out too me is my friend is a former model, has the looks any man would want and yet he gets jealous super easily now. He even says he has no idea why it pops in his head now. After talking with him I get what's happened to him....

My point was nothing more than both have been triggered and the result is the same. RJ. In the case of the OP it was the yeast infection and then the change/memory from the previous statement the wife made to OP about the details.

Both are fixated on their partners past sexual encounters even though they have different triggers. It's the EXACT same issue in that once they get stuck on it, they can't get it out of their head.

"Get over it" ain't gonna fix it for either my friend or the OP.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Jdawg,

Pretend you are at work. There's a guy who is failing because he doesn't want to get trained in a new system. He's blaming his manager and co workers. But in truth - he needs to go to training for the new system. 

This - is like that. These guys need to man the fvck up and go to therapy. Dumping their anxieties on their spouses will harm or even kill the relationship. 

You seem to gloss over the fact your model friend doesn't want to go to therapy. Why is that?





jdawg2015 said:


> Seems you are extracting things I have never said nor implied. I never said anything about legitimizing, implied cheating, none of that. You are mixing in other posters comments to what I am saying. My goodness, please stop bringing in red herrings.
> 
> I'm just trying to get you to see what they are experiencing. I kinda know only because my friend but only after reading on TAM did I have any idea about a term because of it. Why it stuck out too me is my friend is a former model, has the looks any man would want and yet he gets jealous super easily now. He even says he has no idea why it pops in his head now. After talking with him I get what's happened to him....
> 
> ...


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

rocky_209 said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I have been with with my wife for 15 years together for 20. A couple of years into our marriage, we got on the topic of past lovers. My wife had 1 boyfriend who she never had sex with, but they did fool around with oral and touching. This is what she told me. A few weeks ago we started talking about this again. Now she claims she has no memory what so ever of ever doing anything with this guy other than him touching her down there. She wont deny other things, but insists that she has no memory at all of anything else.
> 
> ...


My husband does not have memory of many things we have dealt with and it shocks me every time. In this case I would just let it go. What is the sense of bringing up something that happened 15 years ago?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

AVR,
This took place 21 or so years ago. Dated for 5, married for 15. Happened BEFORE they started dating. 

This type behavior DEVALUES all the good stuff she's done for two decades. 





AVR1962 said:


> My husband does not have memory of many things we have dealt with and it shocks me every time. In this case I would just let it go. What is the sense of bringing up something that happened 15 years ago?


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## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

Catherine602 said:


> Imperfect I'm not sure I really know what RJ is. I believe I've made some assumptions that may be inaccurate.
> 
> I have not read your story and I don't think the OP is coming back so I don't think it' would be a thread jack if you gave a short synopsis of what you experienced.
> 
> ...


I don't think I could do a "quick" version, but I appreciate your curiosity. Even with the full details it's a bit of a head-scratcher.

I have a decent background in literature but I can only think of a single example - a perfect one - of RJ. It is a poignant scene at the end of James Joyce's The Dead. If you are interested, skip to the 3rd (last) paragraph of the plot summary, starting with "The party is winding down": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dead_(short_story)

I certainly can't top James Joyce!


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

MEM11363 said:


> Jdawg,
> 
> Pretend you are at work. There's a guy who is failing because he doesn't want to get trained in a new system. He's blaming his manager and co workers. But in truth - he needs to go to training for the new system.
> 
> ...


MEM, you are agreeing exactly with what I've been saying.

There were people up thread saying these cats could fix themselves. 

My buddy needs to see a shrink. Nearly every time we meet up this discussion seems to come up. 

All I wanted to do is get people to knock off the "get over it" crowd. It's been YEARS for these guys and they still have issues with it. 

I already know the answer they need professional help. Why my friend won't go I have no idea. My guess is pride. His mother is pure Italian so there may be some cultural thing going on in his head.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

jdawg2015 said:


> Seems you are extracting things I have never said nor implied. I never said anything about legitimizing, implied cheating, none of that. You are mixing in other posters comments to what I am saying. My goodness, please stop bringing in red herrings.
> 
> I'm just trying to get you to see what they are experiencing. I kinda know only because my friend but only after reading on TAM did I have any idea about a term because of it. Why it stuck out too me is my friend is a former model, has the looks any man would want and yet he gets jealous super easily now. He even says he has no idea why it pops in his head now. After talking with him I get what's happened to him....
> 
> ...


You don't have to say things directly. Indirectly is the best way to present an idea while leaving yourself an escape clause. "I didn't write what you read." 

You said that the emotional reaction to a wife having sex before she meets her husband and emotional reaction to a cheating wife are the same. Maybe so but one is insane and the other understandable. 

There comes a time when we all have to move past pain in our lives. Thats true for your friend and true for men with RJ. There is a process that takes time, motivation and requires assistance to negotiate. It can't take forever. RJ eats though a person, it destroys hope and the enjoyment of life. Prolonged grieving about a betrayal does the same. 

Get help and heal is a kinder way to say get over it. Your friend needs to get over it, don't you think.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

jdawg2015 said:


> MEM, you are agreeing exactly with what I've been saying.
> 
> There were people up thread saying these cats could fix themselves.
> 
> ...


Ummm... I don't recall anyone implying they could fix themselves. What I saw with those saying "get over it" was suggesting he seek professional help to HELP him "get over it". They said he needs to figure out why this bothers him so much. How is he going to do that? Professional help.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Personal said:


> If it's been years (or even weeks) they ought to do something about it posthaste, in order to ensure they get over it!
> 
> So of course they need to "get over it", if that requires external help then they should seek exactly that. That said requiring help for irrational behaviour, certainly doesn't excuse those who are behaving irrationally from the need to get over it.
> 
> ...


Personal. I gave my thoughts and opinion in response to MEM's question. Your responses are leaning towards being sophomoric with each subsequent post you make.

And by the way, my friend is the typical macho Italian type. So yes, there is substance behind what I wrote. Pride......


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Maricha75 said:


> Ummm... I don't recall anyone implying they could fix themselves. What I saw with those saying "get over it" was suggesting he seek professional help to HELP him "get over it". They said he needs to figure out why this bothers him so much. How is he going to do that? Professional help.


Ohhhh, now "get over it" now means people weren't being twits. Riiiiight.

Even Ele posted about fixing themselves or just read a book.

I'm out on this one folks. OP is gone. I said what I had to say.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Jdawg,
Your friend has, as you've identified, a massive ego issue. The idea that he wasn't able to keep his wife monogamous has thrown him into a flat spin. 

I know nothing about his wife. So maybe she would have strayed from any man. Or maybe your friend, constantly bombarded with sexual cues from other women, took her for granted. 

That's what therapy is for. 

And I've got enough self awareness to recognize that in these type situations I have a pronounced bias. It's a hardwired allergy to the sexual double standard I see on the board. 

Let me frame it for you in the starkest possible terms. 

When a woman is the victim of sexual assault, and her PTSD is impacting an ongoing relationship, it's a given that she has a fairly binary choice to make. Either get help from a therapist or accept that the current relationship will be poisoned if not destroyed by her history. 

That's why I'm 'sympathy lite' these type situations....




jdawg2015 said:


> MEM, you are agreeing exactly with what I've been saying.
> 
> There were people up thread saying these cats could fix themselves.
> 
> ...


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## rocky_209 (Nov 10, 2015)

Hey everyone,

just wanted to let everyone know (who cares) that i haven't abandoned this post. I had to work on a project in China which had taken a lot of my time. By the time I got back to the hotel I wasnt much in the mood to do anything all those days.

However, within a few days I will come back and go through all the comments and provide some of my feedback and an update as to what has transpired since.

Thanks


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