# Should have kept my mouth shut.



## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

A few months ago on another thread I posted about one of my employees. He works for me while also going to school. He asked me for advice about his fiancée and I gave him my opinion but he hadn’t been completely upfront with me.
He was dating this woman for a couple of years and had proposed to her and she had accepted. She had a child from a previous relationship and his family were trying to convince him not to marry her. He knew that my wife has a son from before we met so he figured our circumstances were similar and asked me what I thought he should do.
I told him if he loved her and she loved him then that’s all that matters. (This is what I meant by keeping my mouth shut).
Problem was he had only told me part of the story. It turned out that he had been dating this woman a few years previously,she had dumped him for some other guy.She got pregnant and the new guy dumped her and disappeared. She moved back with her mom and had the baby and of course my employee started calling around and things started up again. Now he wants to marry her.
I went working in London shortly after our conversation and I hadn’t seen him for a couple of months when I met him while out walking with my toddler. He looked very depressed and we started talking. Turns out his fiancée wants him to quit college and get another job and her mother was giving him grief as well. They felt he had responsibilities now and needed to forget about college and start bringing more money into the household. 
He seemed to be looking for an escape route so I gave him one. I remembered the old thread on tam about how women would do something sexually for ex boyfriends but wouldn’t do it for their husband. I asked him how long he was dating her before she slept with him and he said about two months. Then I asked him how long she had held off from having sex with her baby daddy and he said she moved into her exes place the day after she had dumped him (my employee). 
I told him this was very disrespectful and no man should put up with this behavior. (Should have kept my mouth shut #2) He agreed and said his father had told him the same thing. 
I thought no more about this until a couple of hours ago when my best friend who also works in the gym rang me and told me that my employee had broken off the engagement on MY recommendation,and he had openly stated his reasons for doing so. My wife heard the conversation and asked me wtf I thought I was doing giving anyone relationship advice and why did I think I was qualified to help anyone with their personal life. Both of them think I overstepped the mark by telling him to break up with her because she had sex so quickly with the new guy.
But I think I was right.
Opinions?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

you were asked your opinion and you gave it.

As long as this is the same advice that you would follow in similar circumstances, I don't see anything unethical about it. Some people have given me advice that they would not follow themselves.

This guy seems pretty naive. At some point, even when he is employing someone else's advice, it is his decision and his consequences too live with.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

You can't win sometimes. You tried to help out when someone asked. Were you right? Who knows. Were you wrong. I don't think so. I think he pretty well should not have thrown you under the bus though. He's got a bit of a ways to go before marrying anyone in the growing up department. Andy said I shouldn't marry you. Um. No. If your advise resonated with him, then HE took it and decided.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I think your second attempt helped offset your first.

That chick is bad news. Why is your wife upset exactly?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I think your best friend and your wife need to mind their own business since it was your advice that was solicited. If they don't like the working conditions, they are free to seek employment elsewhere. You're the boss - don't take crap from subordinates.

You need to counsel the advice seeker to grow the **** up. He made a decision and he needs to own it.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

You were correct. He is a kisa. That baby is not his responsibility and he could be dumb enough to adopt the child and then have to pay child support when the baby daddy comes back for seconds. That's all he'll be after, but she is likely on a rebound. 

She wants that guy, not your employee. 

Don't know what to tell you to get out of this mess. I do know you are extremely likely to be correct in your assessment. It's too bad the employee isn't smart enough to keep his mouth shut and make his own decisions. 

You can tell those folks that if he needs you to make decisions for him, he is better off calling it off. He doesn't have a clue and will likely have one hell of a time in a marriage without a child, let alone one with a ready made family to a woman who has settled for second best because she is hurting and scared.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

You were right. Makes me a bit nauseous to think he might've quit college for this chick, not to mention be strong- armed by her mother. 

He asked for your advice and you gave it. He screwed up by throwing your name in the mix, though. Would your wife not do the same thing in your shoes, advise a young woman if she were asked? I don't think it's a matter of your qualifications to give advice- it's merely your opinion.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> I think your second attempt helped offset your first.
> 
> That chick is bad news. Why is your wife upset exactly?


The woman in question is a friend of my wife’s sister. 
As for being upset,she isn’t really,she’s just surprised that anyone would ask me for relationship advice. My friend is a different story,she knows the old Andy and figures I’m being a bit hypocritical for criticizing someone for having sex so casually. 
My wife knows nothing about tam or any of the advice that I got here when I needed it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> The woman in question is a friend of my wife’s sister.
> As for being upset,she isn’t really,she’s just surprised that anyone would ask me for relationship advice. My friend is a different story,she knows the old Andy and figures I’m being a bit hypocritical for criticizing someone for having sex so casually.
> My wife knows nothing about tam or any of the advice that I got here when I needed it.


I've gotten some of the same treatment. I use to be a bad boy but when I left town and came back a married father of two and an ordained minister to boot, it raised more than a few eyebrows.

I had one guy shake my hand and say he honesty didn't think I'd even still be alive!:grin2:

I couldn't blame him.:wink2:


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> The woman in question is a friend of my wife’s sister.
> As for being upset,she isn’t really,she’s just surprised that anyone would ask me for relationship advice. My friend is a different story,she knows the old Andy and figures I’m being a bit hypocritical for criticizing someone for having sex so casually.
> My wife knows nothing about tam or any of the advice that I got here when I needed it.


Your best friend needs to realize that people are allowed to mature. If you were still catting around, she might have a point.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I wouldn't explain to your friend. Your wife is defending her sister. The woman went crying to her. That's pretty normal. Like you said, your wife is also surprised. Stand your ground. You don't have to apologize for being responsible. It may even cause you wife to respect you more. Explaining won't. Actions speak louder than words.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I remember responding to your post after he asked the first question, but withheld information. (I believe I suggested that he might someday blame you.)

With regard to second advice, why did he remove his father's same advice from the equation? Obviously, he asked several folks for advice.

In the end, I felt like you were giving him an opinion based on his depression and hesitancy--essentially an excuse/valid reason. I seem to remember your then fiancee getting into trouble because she sided with her 'friends' over you. Interesting.

Most humans give advice, when asked, based on their own lives--the questioner then has the right to ask more questions. Few expect the person questioned to be an expert or to understand the dynamics of the situation. 

Sounds to me this young man asks folks he admires for advice, but doesn't take responsibility for his decisions. This usually happens when his FOO always questioned his decisions. Also sounds like his prospective MIL is related to your MIL?

Young man needs to add a couple of relationship/self-esteem (psychology) courses to his curriculum or maybe a visit to the college counseling center (usually free for students).

If you hadn't given advice #2, you would have been blamed for advice #1 after the marriage failed.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Andy,

1. Overall I like your posts. 
2. I’m not speaking as a mod

You and I drew the same conclusions for radically different reasons. I personally could care less about how fast or slow she slept with who. That said - she made a mistake - a pregnancy with a guy who is not interested in her. And she is now demanding that your man pay for it by quitting college and getting another job. This is outrageous and disgraceful. She is adversely messing with his future when this is HER mistake. And the toxic pile on from her mom - makes this even worse. 

As to the breakup near instantaneous move in with the bio daddy - hmmm - how does the plan B guy have any confidence that she didn’t meet Plan A, ask to move in with him, and when he agreed, THEN dumped Plan B. 

The aggressive push to screw up his college plans means she does NOT care about this guy. He is purely a pay check mule for some other mans DNA. 





Andy1001 said:


> A few months ago on another thread I posted about one of my employees. He works for me while also going to school. He asked me for advice about his fiancée and I gave him my opinion but he hadn’t been completely upfront with me.
> He was dating this woman for a couple of years and had proposed to her and she had accepted. She had a child from a previous relationship and his family were trying to convince him not to marry her. He knew that my wife has a son from before we met so he figured our circumstances were similar and asked me what I thought he should do.
> I told him if he loved her and she loved him then that’s all that matters. (This is what I meant by keeping my mouth shut).
> Problem was he had only told me part of the story. It turned out that he had been dating this woman a few years previously,she had dumped him for some other guy.She got pregnant and the new guy dumped her and disappeared. She moved back with her mom and had the baby and of course my employee started calling around and things started up again. Now he wants to marry her.
> ...


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Just watch the backstory of the prison warden Caputo in Orange is the New Black. When he was younger he was in a band called Side boob that was planning a US tour. his ex gf shows up pregnant. she was very open that they had broken up before she got pregnant.

He dropped the band and got a job as CO to play house with this woman and her child. Scenes later show her leaving him claiming that the other guy is more ambitious than he is. It's make you want to cry and to resolve to live your life for yourself. I think that was about season 4 or 5.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> A few months ago on another thread I posted about one of my employees. He works for me while also going to school. He asked me for advice about his fiancée and I gave him my opinion but he hadn’t been completely upfront with me.
> 
> He was dating this woman for a couple of years and had proposed to her and she had accepted. She had a child from a previous relationship and his family were trying to convince him not to marry her. He knew that my wife has a son from before we met so he figured our circumstances were similar and asked me what I thought he should do.
> 
> ...



See what happens when you try to help someone by giving them relationship advice? 
Imagine what people do after they post on TAM...Jump off a building would be my first thought....

Anyway, we wouldn’t know all the ins and outs of their relationship. You probably wouldn’t either. As soon as you voice your opinion, you become (partly) responsible. The best thing is to just listen and avoid any action-based advice....If in doubt, just keep repeating: “and how does that make you feel?”, with a stupid face. It’s what therapists do anyway. They’ll figure out a way eventually anyway.
Then you should be golden.

Thing is, people want to hear what they already decided they are going to do.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

The problem with giving advice to anyone in which you don't have complete knowledge of the situation, whether in person or an anonymous web site like this one, is that you only ever know one side of the story. There are always two sides to a story and taking the one side you hear as definitive is a mistake. On an anonymous web site, none of the advisers are directly impacted by whatever outcome develops and in fact someone who takes the wrong advice would probably be chastised for asking the advice of complete strangers whom have nothing to lose by expressing their opinion. Real life does not mimic TAM. Advice can reap consequences in the form of hard feelings if things don't work out the way the person seeking the advice expects.

In my opinion, your advice in the first instance was generic, non-specific, and common wisdom which seems perfectly acceptable. Your advice in the second instance was specific to their situation, advised him of a specific direction, and very biased based upon your own personal views (apparently) of how long a woman should wait to have sex with someone. That is a highly debatable position which is also highly personal. Were you right or wrong? Who's to say...however there are consequences to giving such advice to people you know. If it works out to their advantage you are a hero. If it doesn't, you get blamed and others lecture you about minding your own business.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

BigToe said:


> The problem with giving advice to anyone in which you don't have complete knowledge of the situation, whether in person or an anonymous web site like this one, is that you only ever know one side of the story. There are always two sides to a story and taking the one side you hear as definitive is a mistake. On an anonymous web site, none of the advisers are directly impacted by whatever outcome develops and in fact someone who takes the wrong advice would probably be chastised for asking the advice of complete strangers whom have nothing to lose by expressing their opinion. Real life does not mimic TAM. Advice can reap consequences in the form of hard feelings if things don't work out the way the person seeking the advice expects.
> 
> In my opinion, your advice in the first instance was generic, non-specific, and common wisdom which seems perfectly acceptable. Your advice in the second instance was specific to their situation, advised him of a specific direction, and very biased based upon your own personal views (apparently) of how long a woman should wait to have sex with someone. That is a highly debatable position which is also highly personal. Were you right or wrong? Who's to say...however there are consequences to giving such advice to people you know. If it works out to their advantage you are a hero. If it doesn't, you get blamed and others lecture you about minding your own business.


When I gave him the first piece of advice I didn’t have all the information. 
On the second occasion I was really just giving him an out because I thought that was what he wanted. I’m the last person who should judge anyone for being promiscuous. 
I never thought he would quote me when he decided to break up with her and he’s lucky he wasn’t standing in front of me a few hours ago. I will have a word with him later on this week and explain a few pertinent facts about asking for advice.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> I will have a word with him later on this week and explain a few pertinent facts about asking for advice.



Oh ****. Just make sure you don’t mention any names...  



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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He was too weak to end it and had to "blame" someone. Hopefully, she won't reel him back in but someone who sees her Plan B slipping away, with no other prospect in sight, could try anything to fix that.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

He asked and you told him.

Fact he said his father said the same thing should only confirm it.

I don't like giving advice for the reason you experienced. Those who don't want to stand up and take responsibility for themselves.

ETA: I have got to the point in 1-1 situations such as yours, to walk them through how they feel about it themselves. Give them the options and tell them to decide.


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## Robbie1234 (Feb 8, 2017)

Andy1001 said:


> When I gave him the first piece of advice I didn’t have all the information.
> On the second occasion I was really just giving him an out because I thought that was what he wanted. I’m the last person who should judge anyone for being promiscuous.
> I never thought he would quote me when he decided to break up with her and he’s lucky he wasn’t standing in front of me a few hours ago. I will have a word with him later on this week and explain a few pertinent facts about asking for advice.


 @Andy1001 please don't "talk" to your employee until you have calmed down. He threw you under a bus but to be honest he sounds like a kid who is in over his head. 
I have a feeling that his girlfriend is out of his league looks wise and if she didn't have a baby she wouldn't be with him. You were in a completely different type of relationship with your then girlfriend than he is with his. 
And your friend is right about you seeming like a hypocrite, she only knows the Andy that she lived with, she doesn't know the all new "caring" version that posts on tam. Lol.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> you were asked your opinion and you gave it.
> 
> As long as this is the same advice that you would follow in similar circumstances, I don't see anything unethical about it. Some people have given me advice that they would not follow themselves.
> 
> This guy seems pretty naive. At some point, even when he is employing someone else's advice, it is his decision and his consequences too live with.


This


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

You were asked for advice, and you gave it. He's lucky to have you as an employer, you could have easily said "if it's not related to work, I've got more important things to do".

Your wife and friend did not like that you were the Anti-Cupid.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

InMyPrime said:


> Oh ****. Just make sure you don’t mention any names...
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He has my permission to say "Blondi says you need to grow the **** up". But, Andy is an adult and takes responsibility for his actions.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Have him read "The Rational Male" asap.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Seriously though.... Who the hell in their right mind would go for a situation like this?!?

Your girl dumps you to immediately start riding another man's sausage trolly, gets pregnant, gets dumped and then gets interested in you again?!?!?

Granted, this silly little man checked up on her but this is just sad...


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

i don't know, but i have a strong feeling that you helped him avoid a small lifetime of horrible grief.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

As for getting crap about giving him advice, the only reply I'd use to any of them is something along:

"I've had life experiences. Good and bad - they shape my opinions. He asked my opinion, and I gave it."


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Older men NEED to mentor younger men. 

You did good, sir!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

There was a time when I might have given someone a second chance. But these days, I realize even though they ask for a second chance, they still look down on you for giving it.


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## Robbie1234 (Feb 8, 2017)

NextTimeAround said:


> There was a time when I might have given someone a second chance. But these days, I realize even though they ask for a second chance, they still look down on you for giving it.


And truer words have never been spoken.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

You saved him many years of unhappiness, his education, future and a ton of $$$$$'s


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## Robbie1234 (Feb 8, 2017)

MovingForward said:


> You saved him many years of unhappiness, his education, future and a ton of $$$$$'s


This is very true. If he married her and adopted the child he would have been paying for everything all the while knowing he wasn't first choice. Plan B is not a nice place to live,I should know.


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