# Emotional Affair Input



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Hi,

First time poster here.

I innocently caught my wife engaging in some form of a relationship (this is still undetermined) a few months ago. I ended up needing to get in to her email for something and I found pics and conversations with her coworker. She had disguised this person's contact info under a female friend.

Anyway, the emails contained explicit pictures of the guy with sexually charged text to go with it. I noticed they said "love" in their messages. After skimming through a few emails, I decided to confront her about the whole thing.

I asked her who this was, what it was about, how long, etc. After multiple attempts to get the truth out of her, eventually I came upon a series of questions that got her to reveal that there was a physical aspect to their relationship. Being that it happened at work, she said there was never time for anything but some kissing/making out/whatever. I'm very wary of her words and the truth they hold; I'm having a hard time believing her and trusting her.

I travel quite often for work (sometimes the entire work week). During some of these times she had sent some pictures to him that weren't platonic - but weren't on the same level as his.

I should've taken her phone and read the entire history of emails. I didn't. Instead, I let her have this choice and she chose to delete all of it. She said she thought it would've been harder to get out of my mind and I would be thinking about it all the time. After this I went through her phone camera and found the previously mentioned pictures that I had never seen.

Prior to finding out about this, our marriage isn't and wasn't very good. We struggle to communicate effectively and sex is a constant issue (there are other issues too). Our best strategy to successfully live together is to ignore what we can and distract ourselves from the rest. I feel like we experience 5% of the goodness that can exist in marriage.

Currently we are seeing a counselor with the intent of making it work, but it's hard for me to see much happening (but I'm trying to have a neutral attitude).

What steps can I take to help make this work? Do I need to draw some hard lines that I didn't put in place months ago?

I don't want to live through another 2 years of this and find out we're no better off. That's a waste of life.


----------



## Mindful Coach (Sep 15, 2011)

I would definitely bring up the affair piece in counseling. Have you set specific goals in counseling? Just showing up and talking a lot usually doesn't solve too much, there should be goals, homework, and efforts on both your parts to create a better relationship. 

Communication usually isn't the issue. I'll bet when you are getting along, you can talk about anything and it goes great. The issue is effectively dealing with issues, making specific requests, and letting the other person know what you need and how you need it without expecting them to read your mind or without thinking that is how everyone needs it (Love, sex, romance, whatever needs are in question).

It seems as if you are both willing to make things work though and as long as you have that, you can work through anything together.


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

The first thing we brought up in counseling was the affair. The first question being can we make it work? We have homework, but the goals aren't really established.

We don't really converse about much very well to be honest. What you said about not reading each other's minds is accurate.

We are ~5 years in, no kids.

Your last statement is really what matters. I don't know if I am or if she is. That's the road we are going down. It is a weird thing to try to evaluate that.



Mindful Coach said:


> I would definitely bring up the affair piece in counseling. Have you set specific goals in counseling? Just showing up and talking a lot usually doesn't solve too much, there should be goals, homework, and efforts on both your parts to create a better relationship.
> 
> Communication usually isn't the issue. I'll bet when you are getting along, you can talk about anything and it goes great. The issue is effectively dealing with issues, making specific requests, and letting the other person know what you need and how you need it without expecting them to read your mind or without thinking that is how everyone needs it (Love, sex, romance, whatever needs are in question).
> 
> It seems as if you are both willing to make things work though and as long as you have that, you can work through anything together.


----------



## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Well you have two issues going at the same time. One is your W's A, and the other is the pre-A issues in your M. 

As for the A, you must dig for the truth. I noticed you let your W to delete all the txts, and that is not wise. Although I do understand your logic, you must inform yourself with as detailed truth as possible in order to understand fully what happened, deal with the pain, and finally move on. If you decide to put a blind patch on your eyes, your imagination will start to kick in instead making it worse. Your mind will keep lingering on what exactly happened and won't let you move past this. 

What steps have you taken to make sure the A ended? Is OM married? If so, you must contact OMW to inform her and share the info. She may know something you don't. Ask your W to send NC letter to OM, and some BH even ask WW to send an apology letter to OMW as well.

Have you installed a keylogger to her computer? You have to make sure the A has indeed ended. Do not trust what your W says at this point, no matter how much you want to trust her. 

Thru MC, you must find the cause of A, and work on how to prevent it. At the same time, use this opportunity to work on the general aspect of your M as well.


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Yeah I made a mistake in letting her delete those - no question about it now.

She said she sent him an email and tried to call him. I actually physically encountered him at the gym and confronted him. He lied to my face (impressive, too) and acted like he had no idea what was going on. His girl friend may have been nearby. I don't know how to contact him or her. I wanted to ask him about the whole situation and see if he would give a different story.

Most of her computer activity is from her iphone. I haven't requested pins/passwords to her email and phone. Should I do this?

We are trying to improve our marriage. In our minds we both say we want to make it work. We'll see what happens as time rolls on.



sadcalifornian said:


> As for the A, you must dig for the truth. I noticed you let your W to delete all the txts, and that is not wise. Although I do understand your logic, you must inform yourself with as detailed truth as possible in order to understand fully what happened, deal with the pain, and finally move on. If you decide to put a blind patch on your eyes, your imagination will start to kick in instead making it worse. Your mind will keep lingering on what exactly happened and won't let you move past this.
> 
> What steps have you taken to make sure the A ended? Is OM married? If so, you must contact OMW to inform her and share the info. She may know something you don't. Ask your W to send NC letter to OM, and some BH even ask WW to send an apology letter to OMW as well.
> 
> ...


----------



## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Try to find any evidence of A, and with it, contact his GF. He must face some kind of consequence for seducing a married woman. You can't let him walk away scot-free. If you cannot find any tangible evidence, then you can also demand your W to contact his GF to inform her what happened and apologize to her. Or, you can have her write a letter admitting the A with some apology mixed in and you can give it to her. 

This is the absolute minimal exposure. If there is any hint of further contact, you must consider further exposure to such as her family, your family, friends, OM's family and friends, etc... The more you expose, the more you kill the A for sure, but it may make your W very angry, hurt, embarassed and make the life difficult after R. But, if she is not willing to end the A, you must expose !

Also, you must establish NC(no contact) between your W and OM. Have her send a formal NC letter written by her and approved by you, and it must be sent together. Make sure your W knows NC means for life. And, there is no second chance after this. Also, you must embrace the possibility of D thru all this. I know at this point, you don't quite see that as the real possibility yet, as your W is seemingly cooperative, I guess? But, this is in the beginning stage, and you may not know how this type of event will unfold thru all this. 

Also, she must release all her passwords to email and cell phone, and must make herself completely transparent to you to prove herself faithful. If she falls short in this respect, that means she is still hiding something or she does not value her M anymore.


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Ok I will bring that up.

The tangible evidence has been deleted. I will have to rely on my wife to tell me how to get in contact with him.

I have told my parents and a few close friends during my 1-3 day WTF moments.

I have had no reason to suspect any further contact. They both changed jobs (unrelated to this). Theoretically they could run in to each other at the gym like he and I did.

I will get her email and phone access tonight. I will see what kind of cooperation she will provide about the NC letter and contacting his SO.

The marriage not working is a very real possibility - no question.



sadcalifornian said:


> This is the absolute minimal exposure. If there is any hint of further contact, you must consider further exposure to such as her family, your family, friends, OM's family and friends, etc... The more you expose, the more you kill the A for sure, but it may make your W very angry, hurt, embarassed and make the life difficult after R. But, if she is not willing to end the A, you must expose !
> 
> Also, you must establish NC(no contact) between your W and OM. Have her send a formal NC letter written by her and approved by you, and must be sent together. Make sure your W knows NC means for life. And, there is no second chance after this. Also, you must embrace the possibility of D thru all this. I know at this point, you don't quite see that as the real possibility yet, as your W is seemingly cooperative, I guess? But, this is in the beginning stage, and you may not know how this type of event will unfold thru all this.
> 
> Also, she must release all her passwords to email and cell phone, and must make herself completely transparent to you to prove herself faithful. If she falls short in this respect, that means she is still hiding something or she does not value her M anymore.


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Update:

I have been digging through her iPhone files and it got me thinking about something I haven't looked at yet: cell phone provider call history. This led me to discover his cell phone number. I verified this by calling it from Google Voice (it went straight to voicemail and it was him). After I have his cell number, I cross referenced it to the voicemail database from the iPhone.

This led me down a path to find some voicemails from the OM that cover dates from February to June (and I know it was up until I caught her). 

Anyway, her call history doesn't seem to have overwhelming patterns outside of they usually speak when she's in the car (to from work, or lunch). I've purchased a VAR and plan on putting that to use ASAP. I'm considering buying another for the bedroom and maybe purchasing a security camera.

She has spoken with him about once a week (sometimes more but not significantly) since I discovered all of this mess.

What steps do I need to take? Help.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

If she's still in contact then you file
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

If she is still contacting him, the EA is still going on. You need to demand no contact, or divorce is the next step. Slap her with reality. Help her clear that fog. It's like a drug addiction.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

randomguy123 said:


> Update:
> 
> I have been digging through her iPhone files and it got me thinking about something I haven't looked at yet: cell phone provider call history. This led me to discover his cell phone number. I verified this by calling it from Google Voice (it went straight to voicemail and it was him). After I have his cell number, I cross referenced it to the voicemail database from the iPhone.
> 
> ...


Your P.I. work is obsessive IMO. If you feel like you have to do all of this monitoring, I can't see what the point is. You have all of the information you need to make a decision about the future of your relationship, and all your digging and spying is doing is DELAYING your taking the proper action. 

What else do you need to see to take action??


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

I demanded no contact (no letter) when I first found out. She claimed she sent him an email and tried calling to tell him that was it. Apparently it wasn't.

Do I need to pursue further evidence? I really want to know the truth about their relationship - I've felt she's been excluding key information the entire time.

What steps do I need to take to be prepared for separation/divorce? I live in VA? Can I do this without lawyers involved? If I do need a lawyer do they need proof of infidelity?

We have no kids and not a lot of wealth.


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> Your P.I. work is obsessive IMO. If you feel like you have to do all of this monitoring, I can't see what the point is. You have all of the information you need to make a decision about the future of your relationship, and all your digging and spying is doing is DELAYING your taking the proper action.
> 
> What else do you need to see to take action??


Maybe I am just that insecure about the whole thing. I want to believe her in some sense, but maybe that is just my jacked up state of being right now.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

google VA family laws to see if infidelity even matters in divorce, most states it doesnt

even still, this appears to be a split up the assets and be done with it divorce with no kids


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

randomguy123 said:


> I demanded no contact (no letter) when I first found out. She claimed she sent him an email and tried calling to tell him that was it. Apparently it wasn't.
> 
> Do I need to pursue further evidence? I really want to know the truth about their relationship - I've felt she's been excluding key information the entire time.
> 
> ...



1) Tell her what you know. She's not honoring the no contact agreement, and you have proof of such.

I have to ask, when you offered the NCA, what consequences did you offer if she didn't commit to it? I would hope you had consequences laid out, because you need to enforce them right now.

2) Tell her that based on her actions, she's shown you that she no longer respects or honors your marriage, and that a separation is in order. You will not tolerate being lied to. Give her 30 days to secure another place to live etc. 

3) Continue to stand your ground. Don't listen or accept any excuses for her behavior. 

After you put some distance between you, I think you'll be able to think more clearly about what steps you want to take next. This is difficult to do when you are seeing one another every day.


----------



## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

If she's still contacting him after you demanded no contact, you need to make the tough decision. Trust will never be the same.

If you two can agree on the details of the divorce, you can file online by using Divorce Online Is Fast And Easy | CompleteCase.com or one of the others out there. I've checked this site in detail during my EA because I knew I would either get caught or disclose it. Luckily, I haven't had to use it, so far.


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

I didn't read on this site. My intuitive step was to require contact be severed. I didn't have consequences for not complying laid out 

What do I do in the mean time if I give her the "you have 30 days to find another place" bit?

What do I do to ensure she doesn't do something stupid with our money or go on a spending frenzy?

This is kind of getting over my head and I don't know if I need to speak with an attorney or what. 



A Bit Much said:


> 1) Tell her what you know. She's not honoring the no contact agreement, and you have proof of such.
> 
> I have to ask, when you offered the NCA, what consequences did you offer if she didn't commit to it? I would hope you had consequences laid out, because you need to enforce them right now.
> 
> ...


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

randomguy123 said:


> I didn't read on this site. My intuitive step was to require contact be severed. I didn't have consequences for not complying laid out
> 
> What do I do in the mean time if I give her the "you have 30 days to find another place" bit?
> 
> ...


you cancel all shared credit cards
you take out half the savings and put it in your name and let her know she is responsible for her half of the bills

yes talk to an attorney, oftentimes just having the papers in hand will get the result you are looking for


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

randomguy123 said:


> I didn't read on this site. My intuitive step was to require contact be severed. I didn't have consequences for not complying laid out
> 
> What do I do in the mean time if I give her the "you have 30 days to find another place" bit?
> 
> ...


Consult an attorney if you're worried about what she will do with the finances etc. The rest, you don't need an attorney for.

What do you do in the meantime? Take care of yourself. Think about the fact that she has disrespected you and your marriage and that you have given her the opportunity to change that, and she disregarded it. It should make you angry that she would treat you this way. You should want to distance yourself from her. 

She needs a harsh wake up call. One like she's never seen. Don't run behind her like a puppy, take a stand and hold your ground. Demand respect in this situation, or this will continue to go on.


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Damnit this is hard to really accept.

I called an attorney for some information so we will see how it goes. I won't have a good opportunity to confront her until Monday.



A Bit Much said:


> Consult an attorney if you're worried about what she will do with the finances etc. The rest, you don't need an attorney for.
> 
> What do you do in the meantime? Take care of yourself. Think about the fact that she has disrespected you and your marriage and that you have given her the opportunity to change that, and she disregarded it. It should make you angry that she would treat you this way. You should want to distance yourself from her.
> 
> She needs a harsh wake up call. One like she's never seen. Don't run behind her like a puppy, take a stand and hold your ground. Demand respect in this situation, or this will continue to go on.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I know it's hard to take, and I'm sorry for that. A spouses betrayal is about the worst thing that can happen to a person.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Do not tell her how you know. Do not reveal sources. She knows she's continued contact, and now you know too. If she denies, offer a polygraph test and schedule it for her too.

But do not ever show your sources.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Do not tell her how you know. Do not reveal sources. She knows she's continued contact, and now you know too. If she denies, offer a polygraph test and schedule it for her too.
> 
> But do not ever show your sources.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Polygraph?? who takes that offer seriously... I sure wouldn't. I would laugh my husband right out of my face if he threw that out there trying to 'catch' me in a lie.

OP you need to tell her what you know. Letting her continue on thinking she's getting away with something is unwise IMO. She's NOT, and she needs to be called on it.


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

I'm going to seek legal counsel. Once I have that and a plan in place I am going to confront her.

What a mess.


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Update:

I went to an initial consult with a lawyer and got my head on straight as far as the expectations for separation and ultimately divorce.

I went home and told her we are separated. We talked a good bit and she eventually fully admitted that she's been lying the entire time and her EA was actually a PA (imagine that!) which I later find out was ~5 months. I tell her we are done. I leave for the weekend.

I return on Sunday evening and some friends want to meet with me to talk about the events/drama/meltdown. They tell me she has completely broken down to ground zero and is wide open with everything. I'm not sure if I believe them, but it gives me hope that something might actually be different inside of her. The main take aways from their conversation for me were 1. I can't make good decisions when I'm not right with God (I'm not and haven't been for a while) and 2. This is the first real challenge of my faith in my life.

With that being said, I went home and got a shower. When I got out she was downstairs doing something and we started talking. She didn't expect me to even listen to her let alone carry on a conversation. She told me everything I asked of her and explained what has happened to her.

One of our friends is a counselor and my wife spent a good bit of time with her while I was gone over the weekend. I feel like this has helped give her some good expectations if I felt like giving this another go. To make a long story short, I felt very strongly that this is a real and raw state she is in - and I felt like that transparency was enough (combined with #2 above) to give our marriage another shot. So we are trying to make it work. We have our first counseling session tonight where she has to lay it all out for our MC (who she also lied to).

I'm at the point now where I've told her that she must sever *all* contact with OM. She agrees. Great. If I write the NC letter as mentioned earlier in this thread, how do we deliver it? Neither of us know his address. I know his cell phone number, however. How do I prevent him from contacting her at work? He has done this once - there is no caller ID or anything to screen the call.

I've made the expectations very clear: any future contact will prompt immediate separation/divorce procedure. She has unlocked her phone and says she will provide FB/gmail account information to me tonight.

As mentioned before - I travel a decent bit. Of the times they were together, 80+% were when I was away. What other steps do I need to put in place to protect myself? I feel pretty good when we are around one another, but I'm due to travel next week and I'm sure I will have time periods of pain, doubt and feelings of insecurity. What else should I do?

I'm doing ok with the emotional side of this for the most part. I actually feel very connected to my wife for the first time in years. She has admitted she has been hiding from me, herself and pretty much everyone which led to isolating me and making our marriage stagnant and sometimes miserable. I see her actively trying for the first time (maybe ever). Is she just trying to make up for a huge mistake? How do I know it's for real?

I struggle with images and the decisions she's made just like anyone would, but my anger seems in check.

I need a reality check - am I asking for round 2/3 depending our your perspective? Please help me avoid bad decisions. Is it ok to feel close to her? Can she possibly be manipulating me? I can't imagine this being anything but genuine at this point (but look where I am!).

Thanks for reading and supporting me. I certainly can't do it on my own.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

randomguy123 said:


> I'm at the point now where I've told her that she must sever *all* contact with OM. She agrees. Great. If I write the NC letter as mentioned earlier in this thread, how do we deliver it? Neither of us know his address. I know his cell phone number, however. How do I prevent him from contacting her at work? He has done this once - there is no caller ID or anything to screen the call.


There's a NC example letter somewhere on here, someone will post it I bet
It should be handwritten in her own words however and approved by you.
How the hell did she have a PA with a guy she doesn't know the address to? sheesh! use internet tools like spokeo.com to get his address
If he calls her at work she will have to ignore him ("I have nothing to say to you anymore, do not call me again or I will file harassment charges" and hang up) and tell you about it right away.
If you find OM , find out if he has a wife and expose if it applies



randomguy123 said:


> I've made the expectations very clear: any future contact will prompt immediate separation/divorce procedure. She has unlocked her phone and says she will provide FB/gmail account information to me tonight.


why not right then and there? this gives her time to delete emails and messages



randomguy123 said:


> As mentioned before - I travel a decent bit. Of the times they were together, 80+% were when I was away. What other steps do I need to put in place to protect myself? I feel pretty good when we are around one another, but I'm due to travel next week and I'm sure I will have time periods of pain, doubt and feelings of insecurity. What else should I do?


buy a few VAR's and place them in the house and car
get a GPS tracker or spyware for her phone (dont tell her of course)



randomguy123 said:


> I'm doing ok with the emotional side of this for the most part. I actually feel very connected to my wife for the first time in years. She has admitted she has been hiding from me, herself and pretty much everyone which led to isolating me and making our marriage stagnant and sometimes miserable. I see her actively trying for the first time (maybe ever). Is she just trying to make up for a huge mistake? How do I know it's for real?


Time and actions will demonstrate if it's real- be prepared for a bumpy ride of at least 2 years. In the meantime enjoy the hysterical bonding and start spending 15 hours a week together of just the two of you.



randomguy123 said:


> I struggle with images and the decisions she's made just like anyone would, but my anger seems in check.
> 
> I need a reality check - am I asking for round 2/3 depending our your perspective? Please help me avoid bad decisions. Is it ok to feel close to her? Can she possibly be manipulating me? I can't imagine this being anything but genuine at this point (but look where I am!).
> 
> Thanks for reading and supporting me. I certainly can't do it on my own.


Just don't be blinded to the best of your ability, if something smells wrong dont be afraid to poke around. She has to do everything in her power to make you feel better for this work. Actions and words. She must own up to everything, be transparent and establish no contact, add the bonding and more time spent together and you have a real shot. Good Luck


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

I am sure you will get addition posts as to how to track the OM's address down try this link on the interim;

Whitepages.com is a fabulous resource! - Marriage Builders® Forums
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

NC  letter, she hand writes this 

No Contact Letter
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

I don't know how to have a PA without knowing a physical address. She might be lying? I will dig around more on the net.

I've met OM. He has a girlfriend. My wife says he's crazy and doesn't want me confronting him (i did confront him the previous time I saw him after D-Day and he lied to my face). She seems intimidated by him and his violent past/history. I told her I want to expose this to his girlfriend and she told me that he has a history of shenanigans and it is probably a waste of time. Should I pursue this either way?

I already let her delete the emails back in July (obviously a mistake). She told me if I would've read them that I would've found out it was a PA then instead of last week.

I bought one VAR, but I wasn't sure if I should still use it. I'm checking her phone records. I guess the laptop is about the last option for contacting him unless she purchases some other way or uses a work phone. She hasn't told her friends at work... that would be one other means of accountability. Is that worth exploring?

What specific software recommendations do you have? She has an iPhone and a windows laptop.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

She may say she will go no contact however keeping to it is a very different story, both of you sit with her parents and tell them of the affair then ask for their help to recover your marriage.

She will have to write a letter to the company formaly requesting that his number be barred from calling her , she will have to be honest why, do not let this slip as it is way to easy to ignore this and before you can blink she is back in the affair. The only other option is she leaves her job .

Spend every effort tracking the OM down, Facebook , family very one you can find who know who he is , where he works and lives.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

randomguy123 said:


> I've met OM. He has a girlfriend. My wife says he's crazy and doesn't want me confronting him (i did confront him the previous time I saw him after D-Day and he lied to my face). She seems intimidated by him and his violent past/history. I told her I want to expose this to his girlfriend and she told me that he has a history of shenanigans and it is probably a waste of time. Should I pursue this either way?


stop telegraphing this to your wife, do it without telling her- yes tell his girlfriend, Jellybeans has a good form letter for informing her



randomguy123 said:


> I already let her delete the emails back in July (obviously a mistake). She told me if I would've read them that I would've found out it was a PA then instead of last week.
> 
> I bought one VAR, but I wasn't sure if I should still use it. I'm checking her phone records. I guess the laptop is about the last option for contacting him unless she purchases some other way or uses a work phone. She hasn't told her friends at work... that would be one other means of accountability. Is that worth exploring?
> 
> What specific software recommendations do you have? She has an iPhone and a windows laptop.


get more var's theyre cheap relatively speaking, put 2-3 in the house and one in her car, do not tell her

the iphone needs to be jailbroke but you can get spyware on after that, definitely get a keylogger on the laptop


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> She will have to write a letter to the company formaly requesting that his number be barred from calling her , she will have to be honest why, do not let this slip as it is way to easy to ignore this and before you can blink she is back in the affair. The only other option is she leaves her job .


good point and it will show how willing she is towards working on the heavy lifting


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Try this link they have info on many of the monitoring questions you ask.

Operation Investigate - Marriage Builders® Forums
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Your going to have two parallel tasks running, the first to work with your wife and secure the marriage , the second to permanently remove the threat from the OM . If you can get access to his Facebook page there is an exposure letter to message his family and friends. Your task here is to ensure he has zero incentive and massive consequences if he comes near your wife again. If he was making calls from a work phone or during work hours you need to inform his employer. 

This sounds over the top , I assure you it is not , your wife is going to go through serious withdrawal and the risk of her renewing contact is very high, think of her being on drugs and having to be detoxed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

She mentioned a road that she thought he lived off of. I think I've found the road but not the house number. I know what make/model/color he drives, too.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

if you have his name and street name and town then just google everything together and see what pops up


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Dig dig dig , but keep focused on the NC letter and other items , waiting allows her to think, actioning these items enables her to commit to her decision to stay with you. The NC letter once written can always be posted once you track his address and if she has him cell number text him the letter as well . One he receives the written letter and if he contact you , lay a charge of harrasment against him. BTW keep a copy of the letter .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

If I were you, I would plant VAR in her car. And, if affordable, I would contemplate placing GPS locator in her car as well. Keyloggers in her PC is a must, of course. 

Right now, she is in a damage-control mode and say anything to appease you, but remember that 5 month EA/PA means she may go thru some withdrawl and chances are high that she will be tempted to contact him again. Because you travel often, your absence will really tempt her. 

While she is willing to agree to anything you demand now, make her promise to take poly down the line when you demand. It's an added insurance and work as a pressure on her to watch her behavior during the coming months. 

As for OM's W or GF, contact her if you can. It's always a good idea to have another set of eyes enforcing NC from the other end. Just because your W seems broken down, the battle is not over yet. It has just started.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

A couple of important questions: when does she claim it ended? Why did it end? How do you know it isn't still on?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Another thing, if the OM actually did something crazy that would actually help you in a lot of ways. 

I think the truth though is that she is telling you these things to keep you fom finding out more. No doubt she has contacted him an coordinated stories.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> A couple of important questions: when does she claim it ended? Why did it end? How do you know it isn't still on?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good questions. I'd have to assume and guess at all 3 answers.

1. The last time they were together was in mid-august, but she's physically seen him in person and spoken on the phone since. 

2. Why it ended would probably be because she was caught and I am threatening to leave.

3. I don't when, if I'm really honest about it. I guess I better deploy the VAR.

I looked in to GPS trackers and they look to be $2-300 for middle of the road. Thoughts? Any hands on experience with em?


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Use her iPhone to track her whereabouts , never reveal you are monitoring her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Another thing, if the OM actually did something crazy that would actually help you in a lot of ways.
> 
> I think the truth though is that she is telling you these things to keep you fom finding out more. No doubt she has contacted him an coordinated stories.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I'm not sure I believe her story 100% either.

She claimed they hooked up 5 times over 5 months and I traveled 50% during the first half of the year... met and shagged in parking lots.


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> Use her iPhone to track her whereabouts , never reveal you are monitoring her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've tried the cell tower data but it doesn't seem to be detailed enough. The guy doesn't live far away from us or from typical locations. She will notice if I jail break her phone. The physical GPS tracker might be my only option.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

there's a gps tracking program you can pay a monthly fee to apple, I just cant recall the name of it


----------



## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

With you being gone for so long for 5 months, I bet my house that it's way more than 5 times. This means she is still not being 100% truthful. Without full confession, any sign of remorse is not genuine. Thus you cannot trust anything she says at this point. Suspect and verify everything yourself at this point. 

I also believe she is lying to you about her not knowing OM's address. I bet she's been there several times as well, not to mention inviting him over to your house as you are gone for so long and often. Demand poly and see what she says.


----------



## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

She's still hiding information from you.

Make sure you're protecting yourself financially now. Grab your half of any assets and hide them.

Redirect your paycheque to your own account. Get your wife to start paying her half of any expenses.

Dont have sex with her now. If she gets pregnant now, the mess gets much bigger. Lucky you have no kids with her.

Her adultery will always be a problem in your marriage. Hopefully, if you stayed married with her for a few decades trouble-free, her cheating will not trigger you too much.


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Arrgh. She seems so genuine now.

I don't know how to verify any of this.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

If you were gone why hook up in a parking lot.? I don't think she wants to share that he has been to your house.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah you do, it's called a polygraph.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

The only reason I can think of is that we have some friends that drive by randomly. There's no reason she couldn't have driven him to the house and back. It makes a lot more sense to go to the house. It is so close and infinitely better.

She claims they always met at the gym/post workout. That doesn't seem to make much sense either.


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Yeah you do, it's called a polygraph.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What kind of certainty would you place on a poly? I'll google it up.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

personally Id take more stock in her willingness or refusal to take one

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/30485-lets-talk-about-polygraphs.html


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> personally Id take more stock in her willingness or refusal to take one
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/30485-lets-talk-about-polygraphs.html


That's pretty much what I was thinking.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Your running before you can walk, the poly can wait , at this moment you have critical steps for her to complete and you have to expose the OM . The poly and it's success rate is neither here nor there , when you bring it up again you simply state you will be scheduling a poly , give no date to her as yet. It is the threat of the poly over her head that will slowly tease the truth out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I would phrase it this way when she answers your questions-

"would you be willing to take a polygraph to back up your statements?"

if she says yes then just say you will look into scheduling one


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

1. NC Letter
2. Confront about the frequency and location
3. Confront about his address
4. Ask her to back 2 and 3 up by poly

What else


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

passwords


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

A good start 

5. She tells her parents of her affair with you present, asks for their support to help the marriage.
6. She gives you full transparency of everything
7. Sort out the issue of the OM calling her at work

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> A good start
> 
> 5. She tells her parents of her affair with you present, asks for their support to help the marriage.
> 6. She gives you full transparency of everything
> ...


She has told her mom (split parents). Dad no. I've been in contact with my parents the entire time about it.

She claims to be doing #6 right now, but clearly I and others on this forum have their doubts.

I certainly need to follow up on #7.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Stops going to that gym
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

She needs guidance on what she should be doing to evidence her affair is over, buy the book "surviving an affair" by Harley to give you pointers of what to expect and tips on recovery. Both of you should read it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Stops going to that gym
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good call. I thought that yesterday but forgot to write it down.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Shaggy said:


> Stops going to that gym
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes , her whole life style changes .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

At this stage avoid MC , you have to first evidence over time that the affair is over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> At this stage avoid MC , you have to first evidence over time that the affair is over.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We are going to at least one more session. I am curious to see how he (the counselor) reacts.


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

We went to the counseling session together tonight. The counselor had a vibe but was pretty blown away by it all and her confessing.

She has agreed to write an NC letter. She gave me her login info for gmail and fb. She agreed to only go to the gym with me.

I confronted her about location and frequency. It seems she streamlined the truth a bit about both. She said she just "gave me a number" when I asked her about the frequency. She said it happened more than 5 times but not many. Apparently this guy wasn't right and she said she expected them to hook up a lot more than they did.

I asked her if she ever came to our house with him and she said no. I ended up getting her to admit that they did go to his place once. According to her, he's paranoid of being caught by his GF or by my neighbors. 

This seems sketchy to me still, but I wanted to see what you guys thought. The guy is a lot older than my wife (15ish years) - and I have a very attractive wife. If it was me, I'd be trying to tap that at every opportunity. Anyway, if I was paranoid it seems the last spot you would want to be shagging is in a friggin SUV in a grocery store parking lot.

Some of the details I specifically asked and she told me about weren't true. She claimed she was trying to shield me from some of the details.

Should I demand a polygraph?

The counselor seemed somewhat disturbed by her and asked her to do a couple of individual sessions about deception, her family, etc.


----------



## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

It's good that you made a progress, but this is not over yet. So, do not put down your guard. Keep the VAR in her car and monitor it. Keep the keylogger on her PC. I would still put a GPS tracker in her car if you can afford it. 

You must contact OMW to let her know. This is a big "Must". 
A formal NC letter has to be sent as well. 

Instead of continuous verbal interrogation, having her write a "timeline" would be useful for both you and her. It is much easier for her to confess the details on the paper than verbalizing to your face. Remember that her confession at MC still seems trickle truthing. She is still hiding many details out of embarassment. Not to be vindictive, but it is essential for her to wipe the slate clean so that you two can start over afresh. 

As for polygraph, it is your call. It is a rather humiliating process. So, you should know how to approach this topic if you feel necessary. In an ideal situation, polygraph would jump start your R process as you don't have to dwell on the past wondering if you indeed got the full truth. Also, her willingness to take poly would show her sincere commitment to be truthful and willingness to go any length to restore "trust" back in your relationship. However, some people have extreme aversion to polygraph, and you must be careful addressing it. She has to be willing, instead of you forcing her. 

5 month EA/PA is no joke to get over. She may go thru withdrawl and you will grow thru anger phase. You have to brace yourself. During her withdrawl, she may try contacting him again, and you should watch out for it. Once she reconnects, all your effort is reset to square one not to mention they could carry it on at deeper underground and you may have another d-day down the line. Tell her if OM ever contact her again, she should not reply and inform you immediately. 

A typical withdrawl lasts from 6 months to a year depending on the depth of EA and some other factors. Be nice to her for the positive efforts she makes but be stern on your demand on boundaries and any attempt of blameshifting for the cause of A. Blaming bad marriage or lack of attention in marraige for A is like blaming bad furnitures and paints for setting the whole house on fire. 

Also, use MC to find what you can improve the M together.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Yes do the poly and do it ASAP. The trickle truth is going on. Cut through the endless rounds of details changing and find the facts. It's not that poly with shw them, it's the fear of the poly in her that will help her reveal it.

As well do the VARs and the gps on her car.

This week she's honest, next week? Who knws how the wind will blow when your not around.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I think you must do the polygraph since she has constantly been lying to you. You both need to get tested for STD's. My question is why do you want to remain married to her? Are you proud that she is your wife? Why would you have trust her or believe anything she will ever tell you now and in the future? She clearly has no respect for you or your marriage. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


----------



## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

You seriously need to get up in her grill and tell her the next time she thinks of trying to "shield you from the details" to just go and pack her bags and hit the street. Tell her the time for protecting you ended when she went heals up under this guy. Now you are taking care of yourself. And yes there will be a polygraph. And there will be follow on polygraphs in the future. She just won't know when. Again, take care of yourself. Do as suggested with the finances and also get a post nup agreement. Stating if she messes up again she loses everything.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

How did she go to his place if she doesn't know where he lives? That's a pretty good trick.

You may want to add another condition... She gets one last chance to come completely clean. Full details. Any new negative information initiates the separation/ divorce. If she takes you up on that, let her spill her guts. Then ask her about her willingness to take the poly.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

PBear said:


> How did she go to his place if she doesn't know where he lives? That's a pretty good trick.
> 
> You may want to add another condition... She gets one last chance to come completely clean. Full details. Any new negative information initiates the separation/ divorce. If she takes you up on that, let her spill her guts. Then ask her about her willingness to take the poly.
> 
> ...


I was going to post something similar


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

I talked with her again this morning and told her things still aren't sitting right and I think she's lying. She admitted to not using condoms every time and that they came to our house once. I'm really starting to lose my mind now. She has identified that her fear and uncertainty bring her back to that comfortable place: deception.

I think I'm still in serious denial, but cogent and staying rational about my gut feelings and her deception. I don't know how to merge the two. I certainly don't know how to manage my thoughts or emotions about what she has done to me... my default is to throw up a brick wall and ignore.

I mentioned the Poly this morning prior to her admitting those two lies above and she acted a little weird but said if that's what I want... I don't know if this compelled her to tell me more of the truth or what.

We are going to get tested for STD's just as a precaution.

I think tonight is the night for all truths or separation.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Next time don't mention a poly unless you follow it through, all you should say on this topic is you have started enquiries and are seeking a professional to validate the truth or if she has missed items out. You will confirm the date once you have made the arrangements.

If they were in your house it is likely in your bed , dump it now and have her get rid of the bed sheets.

That NC letter should go out soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Schedule a poly for her. Tell her tonight when it will be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Considering the amount of trickle truth here and the multiple affairs, I agree with everyone: FULL DISCLOSURE, or no dice.

I certainly hope you do get full disclosure, not everyone does.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

welcome to trickle truth


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Schedule a poly for her. Tell her tonight when it will be.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can't find anyone that I can see on one day's notice. I left a few voicemails.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Doesn't have to be for today. What I meant was to say, I'm going to setup a poly for next Friday afternoon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

It is bad enough that she keeps lying to you. 
It is bad enough that she engaged in a physical affair.
It is bad enough that she had sex without protection and put your health at risk for STD's.
The worst part is that she took her lover to your home to screw him and absolutely defiled your home. 
She clearly has no respect for you and your marriage.

Are you proud that she is your wife? How much more humiliation and disrespect are you willing to endure? 
She engaged in all of this awful behavior because she felt that she could get away with it and if caught you would foolishly forgive her.
Do you feel special now that you have to be tested for STD's?

You really need to see an attorney. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

From experience the poly should only be done in a couple of weeks time, this gives you the time to cover the selection of a competent tester, formulate the correct questions and gives your wife time to come clean. You are going to get trickle truth , all BS do, what matters is the poly should be the end stage to verify her honesty.

Don't rush into the poly , if you get the questions wrong you won't have achieved anything.

Tonight , sit, listen to her , ask questions , hear her answers , make your own notes . Set and confirm the boundaries of the marriage . Get the NC letter done , work on exposing the OM. My previouse post mentioned a way to cover the poly. Don't rush and make mistakes , think though this logically , keep calm and clear headed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

bryanp said:


> It is bad enough that she keeps lying to you.
> It is bad enough that she engaged in a physical affair.
> It is bad enough that she had sex without protection and put your health at risk for STD's.
> The worst part is that she took her lover to your home to screw him and absolutely defiled your home.
> ...


Am I convincing myself of something that's clear to everyone else but I continue to ignore? =(


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

An attorney is to cover your ass in the event she does not work on marriage recovery .

Create a plan for yourself , knee jerk reactions won't get you anywhere
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> From experience the poly should only be done in a couple of weeks time, this gives you the time to cover the selection of a competent tester, formulate the correct questions and give your wife time to come clean. You are going to get trickle truth , all BS do, what matters is the poly should be the end stage to verify her honesty.
> 
> Don't rush into the poly , if you get the questions wrong you won't have achieved anything.
> 
> ...


You're telling me I should be expecting trickle truth? I can't take much more of that.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Your wife will be coming to terms with herself, you must give her a safe haven when she talks to you , the learning she must have is she can tell you all without you reacting in a way that stops her opening up.

You will get trickle truth , ask the questions you want answered however once she is made aware of the poly date you should find her telling you more.

Again deal with conversations in a measured none threatening way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Trying telling her that the trickle truth is actually more hurtful to you and the future than her just honestly spilling her guts, because it leaves you wonder what is coming next, versus getting onto dealing with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

It is going to be a hard night tonight - I already have that anxious feeling =(


----------



## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> Your wife will be coming to terms with herself, you must give her a safe haven when she talks to you , the learning she must have is she can tell you all without you reacting in a way that stops her opening up.
> 
> You will get trickle truth , ask the questions you want answered however once she is made aware of the poly date you should find her telling you more.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

The poly examiner will ask her only a few set of questions, so it would be unrealistic to expect poly to uncover all the details. And, if she fails the 1st attempt due to lies, after additional confession, she may have to take the 2nd. It would be a waste of money and time. Not to mention your sanity.

Your best bet is to make her confess fully before the actual poly date. And, the poly is to just confirm that there is nothing more. 

BTW, I am concerned about your description of her reaction to the mention of poly. It seems as if she is still holding back something. When people break down and make a full confession, it tends to show. From your W, it still seems just trickle truthing.


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> Next time don't mention a poly unless you follow it through, all you should say on this topic is you have started enquiries and are seeking a professional to validate the truth or if she has missed items out. You will confirm the date once you have made the arrangements.
> 
> If they were in your house it is likely in your bed , dump it now and have her get rid of the bed sheets.
> 
> ...


We just talked and they were in my bed and on my couch. earlier today i dragged my couch out in to the lawn. I just found out about my bed. Supposedly this was the last thing she was hiding from me. I don't really know what other things I would care about, but she's lied to me and to our counselor twice (she's lied about 10 times to me).

She told me about some other crap from her past.

I want to burn the mattress.

She told me not to bother with the polygraph and she would stop holding this last bit back.

I can't trust her. I'm starting to get angry but trying not to show it. Does this mean I'm pretty much at the point where I need to separate again? I feel like I'm walking around at night lost in the woods with nails in my eyes.

I don't know how to evaluate whether I can get beyond her betrayal and lying. I can forgive her. Is this it?


----------



## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

What do you think she was thinking when she she was having sex in your marital bed in your home. I am sorry but she was symbolically defecating on you and your marriage. How can you not see this? How much more humiliating could she be to you?


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to get away, not separate, but personally away to clear your own head and to give your emotions time to settle.

Can you go camping or something this weekend, maybe with a buddy ?

Tell her that bed needs to be gone and replaced, and any clothes she bought for him, wore for him go in the trash. 

The NC needs to be written and given to you when you return.

And the poly is still an option if you want it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

bryanp said:


> What do you think she was thinking when she she was having sex in your marital bed in your home. I am sorry but she was symbolically defecating on you and your marriage. How can you not see this? How much more humiliating could she be to you?


I'm not sure there's a way for her to be any more insulting.


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> You need to get away, not separate, but personally away to clear your own head and to give your emotions time to settle.
> 
> Can you go camping or something this weekend, maybe with a buddy ?
> 
> ...


My parents are coming in to town this weekend.

I don't know what the poly will accomplish at this point. I think I have the information now I'm just too much of a ***** to go forward.

I can't go in that bedroom.


----------



## MrQuatto (Jul 7, 2010)

one problem here, Random, is that you have given her the "Ultimatum" on truth and then found that she was still lying and gave her no consequences to face as a result. So she has lied and lied and lied because she is feeling secure you will just get angry for a while, then move to the next step.

I think she needs a serious wake up call if your looking into R in any way. 

If you have decided on D, then pack her shlt and start your new life.

Q~


----------



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

MrQuatto said:


> one problem here, Random, is that you have given her the "Ultimatum" on truth and then found that she was still lying and gave her no consequences to face as a result. So she has lied and lied and lied because she is feeling secure you will just get angry for a while, then move to the next step.
> 
> I think she needs a serious wake up call if your looking into R in any way.
> 
> ...


You are absolutely right.

What does a serious wake up call look like if R?

I haven't decided on anything yet.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Why have you not had her write the NC letter? and exposed to the OM's wives. Your wife is willing to write the NC letter have her do these now.

Get rid of those triggers and I suggest as part of the recovery package you move house.

As far as you know , at this stage your wife is coming clean. In a couple of weeks you verify this via a poly however for now both of you go somewhere together for some one to one time. There is no relationship discussions , it is a vacation and break.

Rebuilding trust and the marriage is hard and you are going to go through a range of emotions. Making big future relationship decisions like separation is not wise especially as your wife appears to want to recover the marriage.

After completing the exposure and boundary requirements work with your wife on what must be done to help you through, both of you may not know what steps to take and may need external guidance. Marriage is hard work even without an affair and requires full engagement from both spouse . I suggest placing any thoughts of a D on the back burner , by doing this it will help you focus on the existing issues. Your in the very early days of discovery a lot has happen and you need time to get your thoughts and emotions under control.

Read " surviving an affair" and " his need her needs " both give you pointers.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

