# Alternatives to Divorce?



## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

Hi All,

This is my first post on the forum. I've been reading a lot of threads and there seems to be quite a few people that have tons of insight to offer people with respect to their marital problems. 

I haven't posted my personal story yet, but I plan to when I'm ready. 

I do have one question though. I have noticed the vast majority of response are to divorce if you aren't able to resolve all issues with your spouse. 

Divorce IMO is messy, expensive and very detrimental to the children and the standard of living for everyone involved. 


Provided that both spouses can work out a "compromise", has anyone considered other options to divorce? Co-habitation agreements, open marriage agreements or any other strategies to keep the family together?

Jason


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## jon1996 (Jul 19, 2012)

That sounds like more trouble brewing! If I am thinking and going through with a divorce the last thing I would want is another man in the picture with my wife, Thats my 2 cents


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

Every circumstance is different of course. It all depends on how toxic the relationship is. 

I just wonder if anyone has considered any alternative options if the only reason for divorce is "irreconcilable differences". Obviously if the relationship is severely dysfunctional, divorce would be the only option.


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

BTW Jon. Thanks for the reply!


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Hi Jason,

I find this site to be very pro-marriage...as a long as it is a loving and healthy marraige but many of the folks who come here talk of marriages filled with a lot of abuse (mental, verbal and physical), affairs, sexless marraiges etc.....to me all those are things that would probably end my marriage.

So if, for instance, someone comes here and tells of a long term sexless marriage and a LD spouse who doesn't care and talks and behaves in a cruel and unloving way...ending the marriage always has to be one of the options. Why would we suggest someone stays in a [email protected] marriage... for the rest of their lives. 
We only get one go at life... it should bring more smiles than frowns. We all deserve to love and be loved... 

When I joined here I was hissing and spitting... even considering ending my 20+ yr marriage  but some very good people here gave me a cyber hug and some wonderful advice and support. 
We're still together and despite a few bumps on the road are working on rebuilding trust. 

I think TAM is FAB


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

Waiwera,

I only joined a few days ago and I have found a lot of very useful information. I've ordered NMMNG after reading about it here. 

I plan to read that one, then a couple more that have been recommended. 

My wife and I are in very similar situations to others here. There hasn't been any infidelity on my part ( or any in hers as far as I'm aware). We have however grown apart due to some trust issues she has. I feel divorce may be on the horizon for us. 

I have read a little about co-parenting and co-habitation agreements before and want to be able to discuss all options "IF" the need arises. 

I do appreciate any and all input. I agree that TAM is a great place.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

I come here for a male voice.. I'm often blown away by the posts the men put on here. 
Reading them has made me see my H in a different light and it has made me be kinder and more supportive of him.

I hope you will learn enough here (and elsewhere) to save/improve your marriage... what are you doing to bring you and your wife closer again?

When you say co-parenting and co-habitation...do you mean to live as separate people under one roof raising your children?


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

I have been learning quite a bit on the forum so far. 

My wife has asked for "space" while she is sorting through her feelings, so not doing anything as of yet. 

That is exactly what I mean by co-parenting. I think it could work in our situation. We really don't have a toxic marriage and have kind of lost the spark. We still get along great and do things together. Divorce just seems too extreme in our case.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

An unhappy marriage can be more detrimental to children (to say nothing of the spouses) than an amicable divorce. However, at best, I don't see how two people living together, yet going their separate ways (ie dating others etc) could be a good example to children.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I think it's really hard, in real world situations, to go from being a married couple to just being a pair of individuals who happen to share children _while living in the same house_ without really screwing everyone up emotionally. Separating yourself physically, emotionally, mentally and romantically from your partner is hard. I can only imagine it would be tenfold harder when you still see, speak to, deal with, that person each and every day in your home. And your children certainly will be confused by the "not a couple but still married, don't love each other, can't really be friends, involved with other people" situation that would arise. There's a reason couples who break up tend to not remain best friends and in each others pockets. It's just too painful, and someone always gets hurt. 

I advocate doing everything in your power to make your marriage work, and work well. If, however, nothing can be done and the marriage is truly untenable, then divorce and one of you move out.


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

I understand that as well. I'm very concerned about the well being of my children. 

We live in a great neighborhood, a beautiful home and close to a good school. They have many friends on the street.

Divorce would mean selling the family home (as there is no way either of us could afford to stay in it) and both of us having to move to somewhat undesirable neighborhoods. In essence, everyone's standard of living suffers immensely. 

Not to mention the trauma of my sons changing schools and losing all of their friends. They are still very young (6&8).


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

No pain no gain. It is hard work, but saving the marriage and working on it like an exercise program to make it healthier is always (IMHO) the best path.

Divorce can be for some simply running away from it rather than working at it. The end result is only dragging those issue into other relationships and not really solving the core problem, which we all contribute to.

After the financial and emotional burdens, a study shows 5 years later that couples who divorced are less likely to be happier than those who stuck it out and worked at it.


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

This is me said:


> No pain no gain. It is hard work, but saving the marriage and working on it like an exercise program to make it healthier is always (IMHO) the best path.
> 
> Divorce can be for some simply running away from it rather than working at it. The end result is only dragging those issue into other relationships and not really solving the core problem, which we all contribute to.
> 
> After the financial and emotional burdens, a study shows 5 years later that couples who divorced are less likely to be happier than those who stuck it out and worked at it.


That speaks volumes to me. In essence, "The Grass Isn't Greener"

Thank you all for your candid responses.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Both my husband and I were divorced once before we married. Both our divorces went fairly smooth and was not expensive.

Since I had a child involved, I went ahead and got myself a lawyer. I paid roughly around 2,000 for my divorce. I did not ask for much from my ex h. I asked for a flat rate of $200 per month in child support. I took the child's and my clothing and left him with everything I owned. The lawyer and I went through visitation and requirements for my ex h to complete(drug therapy, parenting class, anger management, ect) before he was able to see his child, he agreed without argument. Once he completed the class, he had supervised visits for years before unsupervised. My ex has untreated bipolar. He uses drugs and is abusive. There was no way I was going to stay married to that fool. His behavior is worse now then 18-19 years ago when I divorced him. He stopped contacting my child at age 14, which is a blessing. My ex has major issues.

My husband paid 99 for his divorce. He did not have children with his ex w. It went smoothly and quick. They split their assets in half and parted their ways.

If neither of us divorced, we would not of married and would of missed out of our beautiful relationship towards one another. I absolutely adore my husband and he adores me. We've had a very happy and strong marriage these last 12 years. Truly, the happiest years of my life.


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

I agree that in abusive/toxic marriages divorce is the only option. 

My W and I are very disconnected ATM. Her issues with trust are IMO a big part of it. She began shutting me down last summer and it's gotten much worse since her father died last fall. This week she mentioned Divorce and asked not to discuss it until next week (at the earliest) when she is on vacation. She doesn't want to be at work with swollen eyes. 

I will admit, that my desire and physical attraction to my W has dwindled over the years. I made an honest attempt to pursue sex and intimacy with her in 2010-2011 and things were great. Wild sex a few nights every week. I was always looking forward to our next romp. I was beginning to gain the intimacy back and was loving it. 

Then her father passed away and she kept pushing me further away. The morning he passed, I told her, her mom and her siblings to stay home with each other. I spent the day getting the arrangements made so they wouldn't have to deal with it while in shock. 

She feels I didn't comfort her enough when he died. I certainly tried to, she pushed me away even at the funeral. 

I honestly don't believe things are better after divorce. I know a few divorced people and for the most part they are miserable.


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## hldnhope (Apr 10, 2012)

Before you read that book, read Divorce Busters by Michele Weiner-Davis:

http://www.amazon.com/Divorce-Busti...id=1342790618&sr=8-1&keywords=divorce+busting

She actually answers or at least helps you to decide on the questions you've asked here.

It's tough to give personal advise here without knowing your situation. 

Q: Do you want the same type of marriage/arrangement for your children when they grow up, or would you rather they be in a loving; comitted relationship with their spouse? Because what you will be doing is giving them a model to use for their future.


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

I looked over the 180 list and I have a feeling my W has read it already. She seems to be following the 180. 

I will see about getting that one from the Library today at lunch.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hey Jason,

Marriage is hard work. The death of a parent can really throw off a marriage but only if you let it.

And yes, you are right about D. Some people see it as an escape only to find out that they took the easy way out. There is nothing easy about either choice.

Your wife needs professional counselling. Do not let her shut you out. Make her own up to her actions.

My wife is quite reserved and rarely shows any emotion until she is past the breaking point.

When I finally realized that she was about to go crazy one time i got the kids out of the house and sat her down.

And I told her this " I am not talking to you as your husband, I am talking to you as your friend. We ave always been able to confide in each other for over 26 years. Why have you chosen to not communicate with me?

Tell me what is wrong...."

Well, I waited for about 1 minute and it was like an avalanche came down the mountain and hit me. 

She was angry at me. She was upset with me. She cried. She yelled. She made demands.

I listened to everything she said and for the most part did not agree with what she said. But I never vocalized that. I just listened. 

In the end, we came up with a compromise and I agreed to vent my anger in a more controlled manner which was big to her. What I thought was not a big deal (both my parents yelled as I grew up, hers have never raised their voices) was in fact a huge deal to her.

But I got her to communicate just by being patient, not arguing with her and mainly just listening.

You need to get your wife to that point. Do not let her be a coward. You guys have been married for a while and have young kids.

It is ok for her to have time (space) to think.

But it is not ok for to keep to herself how she feels about you, your marriage and your family.

Act now. And remember "No More Mr. Nice guy"!!

Hm64


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I agree with working on one's marriage and trying to affair proof as much as one can.

OTOH, what can you do if your spouse claims that they can be friends with who ever the hell they please and how ever the hell and so forth. 

So you have two conflicting wants and needs. On another message board we would be told that there is nothing wrong with opposite sex friendships and the spouse who is uncomfortable with it is the one with the problem. If your wife insisted on returning home 5am on Saturday mornings from her work happy hour inebriated and that's her prerogative, you're just controlling,,,,,what would you do?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> I agree with working on one's marriage and trying to affair proof as much as one can.
> 
> OTOH, what can you do if your spouse claims that they can be friends with who ever the hell they please and how ever the hell and so forth.
> 
> So you have two conflicting wants and needs. On another message board we would be told that there is nothing wrong with opposite sex friendships and the spouse who is uncomfortable with it is the one with the problem. If your wife insisted on returning home 5am on Saturday mornings from her work happy hour inebriated and that's her prerogative, you're just controlling,,,,,what would you do?


That is pretty simple. Consequences.

The door would be locked or the locks changed. Especially if there are children involved. I have no tolerance for a drunk. Especially a married, sloppy one.

Happy hour is just that....... One hour. If she wants to go live the single life and we did not have children I would say sayonara.......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

happyman64 said:


> That is pretty simple. Consequences.
> 
> The door would be locked or the locks changed. Especially if there are children involved. I have no tolerance for a drunk. Especially a married, sloppy one.
> 
> ...


I guess I gave an example that was way too obvious. I would have to say, I would not like having a spouse who constantly prioritised the needs of others over me. In his mind, there may not be any middle ground on that issue.


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

I'm about half way through NMMNG. Very interesting stuff there. I can see alot of things I have done to conform to other people's expectations. My wife has shot me a few strange looks in response to the changes I'm implementing. 

I have taken on the mantra of " I am doing this for me". 

I just got Awakening and Divorce Busting yesterday. They are next on my list. 

We haven't been speaking about our marriage problems. We have been emailing and she has flat out refused to get help for her trust issues. I am under the impression that she has pretty much "checked out" of the marriage. Almost broken beyond repair. 

I'm sick to my stomach that she wouldn't talk to me about her father's death. She was waking up in the middle of the night with panic attacks for months. I can't understand why she pushed me away and closed me out. 

I told her I have a list of books to read and she wants me to read them. We aren't fighting at all. I really think she has concluded she wants to move on. I am starting to feel that way as well. 

I think it's going to be long process if we are going to try fixing things. 

Time will tell, but at least I'm starting to open my eyes for the first time in a very long time.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Jason,

It is a long process no matter if you R or D.

HM64


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Jason,
> 
> It is a long process no matter if you R or D.
> 
> HM64


Very true.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Jason, so if you are doing this sort of in house 180 for you, did you decide that is really what you wanted first?

It sounds to me like you are a niceguy who loves his W and wants to work this out, but are caving into her demands to separate yet still have the provisions that go along with your finances. It sounds like you want to give her what she wants in order to continue winning her approval?

If you want your marriage, draw your line in the sand, she is either all in or all out, it really doesn't take that long to make that decisions so don't waffle and give her time. If she tells you she wants out believe her.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but based on all the stories from people I know and that I've read here, I really don't like the prospects of where your marriage is headed. And it sucks to be the first one to play this card, but from what I am hearing form you, she wants space and she is going dark on you, it seems you have gotten a non-verbal version of "I love you but I'm not in love with you". So have you done any surveilance or investigation to find out if she is in an affair?

Meanwhile decide what it is you want, most people on here will advise against co-habituation, live-in separations or open marriages because it only causes more emotional turmoil for the loyal spouse.


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

Lon,

I haven't been the most attentive spouse either. I know I've lost my desire for her. I feel more like friends or roommates now. 

I've always made weekly me time with friends to go fishing or have a coffee. She is very resentful of this even though she has a weekly hen night. 

You are correct though. It has to be "all in" for both of us. I still have to decide if that is what I really too. 

I have done a little poking around. Can't get to her phone. It's always locked or by her side. 1500 text messages last month. Billing doesn't show what #'s though. I think she has retreated to her friends for companionship. But I also feel like she is trying to gaslight me with her trust issues. 

EA/PA could be a small possibility. But not sure. I am contemplating a couple of VARs. I don't think I would discover anything other than her complaint to her girlfriends about me.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Jason439 said:


> Lon,
> 
> I haven't been the most attentive spouse either. I know I've lost my desire for her. I feel more like friends or roommates now.
> 
> ...


You are letting her pin all the blame on you right now. And if she is in an affair, right there is all the motivation for her to do it, it's called rewriting marital history. And you are enabling it, because like you I blamed myself for all the things she was telling me she was so unhappy about. I'm recovering now but I WISH I had been strong enough to take some time to do things for myself like fishing and getting away once in awhile. The fact I didn't was only proving my low worth to here (ie what I'm saying is your problem has nothing to do with your weekly guy time, in fact the weekly guy time only improved your odds).

Yes, the fact she is guarding her phone means she is hiding something, and what other than inappropriate relationship would ever require hiding something from your spouse?

You have come to the right place here though, read through the coping with infidelity forums because you need to atleast rule out an affair before anything else will make sense.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Alternatives to divorce?

Work on yourself. Get back in shape and build some muscles. Improve your mind. Learn to detach somewhat.

Take her out on occasional dates. But stop overly pursuing her -- it's a turn-off.


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

Thanks Lon. You are right. My Guy time is almost like my therapy. I refuse to give it up. I am suspecting something is going on because of her cell phone habits. 

Could be an affair, or a toxic friend. ( her recently divorced, alcoholic cousin). I'm pretty sure it's the latter, as she is always trying to invite herself for overnight stays at our house. I put my foot over her visits again last night and she is not welcome to use our home as a bed and breakfast. 

I've been reading and learning alot on here. My thanks to everyone.


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

Aug, that's my plan.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

I like that plan. Just better you and see if she notices.

Take it one day ata time but have a plan.

Work that plan.

Good Luck Jason.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

Thank you for the encouragement HM64.


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

Well, I'm pretty much finished NMMNG. I have one chapter left. 

I did relate to a few things in the book. Mostly the first few chapters dealing with childhood and toxic shame. 

The thing is, I'm not so sure that I really am a nice guy? Does that make sense to some of you who have read it?

I've started Awareness and I have enjoyed what I've read so far. 

Still no real progress/talking with W. I got her cell phone last night while she slept to try and have a look, but she pounced awake like a Puma and flipped out a bit. When she asked why i had her phone, I basically told her I was looking for transparency and my phone is available for her to peruse anytime as should hers. 

I got the typical "Whatever!" response and she went back to bed. 

Not a very successful attempt. Lol


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

Hey Jason - any update on your situation? I'm in a similar situation, and I was hoping I could learn from your experience.


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

caladan said:


> Hey Jason - any update on your situation? I'm in a similar situation, and I was hoping I could learn from your experience.


Hi. Sorry I'm a day late in my reply. Just saw this post now. 

After a few months of reading, researching and soul searching and a visit to a counsellor, I decided to do what is the best option for my sons. I presented her with a separation agreement 2 weeks ago. 

I had asked my W to attend MC so we could try to work things out and she didn't want to. I couldn't continue living in limbo any longer. 

Things have been a bit tense between us, but we are remaining amicable around each other. Not fighting or discussing anything in front of the boys. 

We have agreed on a 50/50 shared physical custody schedule and are negotiating a few of the minor points in the draft agreement. We aren't speaking at all, but are negotiating through email. I'm confident it will work out in the end. 

Unfortunately, it looks like the family home will be sold, as I can't carry it on my own and my W doesn't want the responsibility of a huge house on her own. 

Although I'm very sad about how devastated the boys will be when we break the news to them, I'm confident we will all be better off in the end. I didn't want to model an unhealthy marriage for them to mirror later on in life. 

I've spent the past few months focusing on the positive things in my life and I've gotten in much better shape. I'm down 48lbs from last April and I feel great. I've chosen not to be bitter, angry or resentful and I feel stronger for it. 

I do see the light at the end of all this and I feel a strange sense of relief that I will be through this life changer very soon. 

TBH, I now think if a marriage is beyond repair, it's best to move on and be happy with yourself. 

Thanks for asking and good luck on your journey, whatever path you choose!


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

I see. So the co-habiting plan didn't work out?

I have a friend who was able to pull off the co-habiting divorce strategy. It kinda works for them because they have a multi-family home, so he lives in the attick while the others stay downstairs with their mom.


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

caladan said:


> I see. So the co-habiting plan didn't work out?
> 
> I have a friend who was able to pull off the co-habiting divorce strategy. It kinda works for them because they have a multi-family home, so he lives in the attick while the others stay downstairs with their mom.


To be honest, I didn't pursue a co-hab plan. I did the 180 and chose separation/divorce after months of deliberation. 

I found some information that would make it impossible for me to cohabitate or even reconcile. To put it mildly, I spend most of my time on this forum in the "coping with infidelity" section now. 

In some cases it might work, but not in mine.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Jason439 said:


> Every circumstance is different of course. It all depends on how toxic the relationship is.
> 
> I just wonder if anyone has considered any alternative options if the only reason for divorce is "irreconcilable differences". Obviously if the relationship is severely dysfunctional, divorce would be the only option.


"Irreconcilable Differences" = Severely Dysfunctional


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

jaquen said:


> "Irreconcilable Differences" = Severely Dysfunctional


Yes and broken beyond repair.


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