# Finally moved out



## maxww (Dec 12, 2016)

Mine seems to be an ordinary story. I have been married for over 35 years. We met in college when I was 16. He was a couple of years older than I; he was handsome, intelligent and most importantly, my best friend. He used to take care of everything before we got married; he was my hero and I worshiped him in a pedestal.

Problems surfaced soon after we were married. I found out that he is a TV junky and he is moody. Whenever something that is not to his liking, he'll withdraw and we fought a lot. I married young and by 25, we already had 2 babies. Taking care of kids with a full time job really took a toll on me. My husband is always glued to the TV, oblivious to most of the daily things that is happening or needs to happen in the family. I was so busy raising the kids, doing housework, managing our finance/household and running around with chores. He seldom participated in any family activities. I remember each and every year, while we were decorating the Christmas tree, he would be watching TV and that hurts. My husband can be attentive and adorable when he wants and as long as I don't cross the line. The line is hard to gauge as he dislikes things in a very black and white yet personal way. For example, he wanted me to wear my hair at a certain length to please him and when I cut it short, he went ballistic. His way of punishment is to ditch out the silent treatment as he pleases. Those years were very bitter but they passed quickly as the kids were growing up fast. I tried to leave once but couldn't because of the kids.

After the kids grew up, things seem to get better. We got to travel more and he helped out in the house a lot more. I still got the silent punishment from time to time but it was not as frequent. Financially, we have been doing well. Fast forward to now, my husband wants to retire but I am not ready. My job has become part of my life, my identify and my safe haven to escape. The thought of staying at home 24/7 just seems to suffocate me. We fought bitterly and he ditched out his famous silent treatment again. I was going my day as normal as he gets nastier and nastier. He becomes hateful, snaps at all my remarks and refuses to acknowledge me most of the time. I have to admit that I am getting used to this treatment and it finally doesn't hurt as much (it used to, a lot). I remember I used to cry all the time but that has stopped long time ago. I finally told him this kind of behavior will no longer be acceptable. He said I reneged on my promise of retiring with him together and he "doesn't like it". Since I cannot tolerate this abuse any longer, I said it is best for us to separate for a period of time. He didn't respond but scornfully shook his head. I packed and left. 

I've always had some hope that things will get better and we can grow old together. When he is happy, I can still see what he used to be when I was sixteen, my hero and my knight in shining armor. We still hold hands and people think that we are madly in love. But when things don't suit him, he takes all the sunshine away and veils the place with ice. I know that he suffers too during our fight. He looks so gloomy and he grows thinner by the day. However, I don't know how to go on and I am sorry that I won't be able to devote every single minute of my life to him. I am not young anymore and I just want to live out my remaining years doing things that I like without fear of being punished. Tonight is the first night that we are apart. I took out a bottle of wine, unpacked the Christmas tree and decorated it alone, just like what I have done for the past 35 years.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Where are you staying?


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## maxww (Dec 12, 2016)

I am staying in the condo that we own. He is staying in the main house.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

He's a spoiled baby and you have been letting him get away with it for 35 years. I doubt he's going to change but he may pretend, he may even agree to you wanting to keep working but my guess is he will guilt trip you daily. 

You are out of the house right now, do you miss him? And I mean him as a person. If the answer is yes then try to work things out. If you are happy and relaxed with not having to deal with him than I say it's time to move on and shape your life how you want. You have many years of living yet, you get to decide how you want to spend them.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

I'm sure he and his TV will be very happy together.

After spending 35 years constantly placating a man-child and walking on eggs, I'd be willing to bet your new life seems pretty surreal.

You're in charge now. Good for you.

Don't let him bully you into making *any* decisions that aren't in YOUR best interests.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

Cooper said:


> He's a spoiled baby and you have been letting him get away with it for 35 years. I doubt he's going to change but he may pretend, he may even agree to you wanting to keep working but my guess is he will guilt trip you daily.
> 
> You are out of the house right now, do you miss him? And I mean him as a person. If the answer is yes then try to work things out. If you are happy and relaxed with not having to deal with him than I say it's time to move on and shape your life how you want. You have many years of living yet, you get to decide how you want to spend them.


 @maxww

35 years of this so it's unlikely that he'll change. This is the marriage that he knows. This has become the marriage that you know, but now you're doubting that this is the way you want it to be especially that now you're faced with the fact that retirement will leave you with him a lot more than now. Who wants to be around a passive aggressive person that does nothing around the house? 

Good for you for standing up for yourself.


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## Rockclimber (Nov 1, 2016)

How many relationship books have you read, how many has he read? That is step one in becoming self aware, he probably does not even realize what he is doing it has become so normal to him. Self awareness is a funny thing with men, it is black and white unlike women who tend to be very grey. When things were going badly he should have been buying and reading self help books and perhaps going to therapy to see why he acted the way he acted. It may be too late for him but after 10 years of marriage it was not too late for me. Good luck, I hope you find happiness wherever you decide to be.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Classic passive-aggressive. I was married to one too. The silent treatment is one of their favorite "punishments". Good for you for finally taking a stand and doing what felt right for YOU. There are other members here who left their marriages after 30 plus years, maybe they will see this and chime in with some advice. @Openminded


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Thanks, 3X, for directing me to this thread. 

I joined TAM, maxww, to help women in very long marriages. We usually have little (or no) support when we decide to get out. I was married to a cheater for 45 years (and I own my issues that likely contributed to that). We met at 18 and married a few years later. I should have gotten out decades before I did but I didn't want to impact our son (and later I didn't want to impact our grandchildren). 

I never wanted a divorce but I did want peace for what remained of my life and there was no possibility I would get it if I remained married to him. Against strong pressure from family and friends, I got out. He immediately remarried (to no one's surprise). After I got over the bitterness, we became friends again. Before he died, we discussed our marriage in depth and I'm glad we got that chance. I like to remember him as that handsome 18 year old boy I first met. That makes me smile. 

My only regret is that I didn't get out sooner.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Twenty men scrambled from a would be grave.

Now only one left down there to save. Big John.

John is busy watching TV. Let him be.

He gave you a wonderful Christmas present.

What was it? His absence. And his passive acquiescence on "your" absence.

He will miss you when he gets hungry and when his sack gets full.

Tough! That is what God gave him hands for. He needs to unwrap them. They are pristine, no callouses on them. He has never used them.....he "used" your hands for everything. 

What a shocker will be in store for this man when he realizes that he has no real household skills.

You think he is "skinny" now. Give him a few months. if he turns sideways you won't be able to see him.

Do not let him play the sympathy card on you. Both of you got a deck of cards when you married. You got a whole lot of sympathy cards....never used. Him? Mostly Jokers, no sympathy cards due.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

What's his take? I am sure there is a lot more going on than just this.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Forgot to mention -- my ex-husband was also a tv addict. The tv took the small amount of time that his career didn't (he had no hobbies). He turned on the tv the moment he got home (or got up on the weekend) and it remained on until he went to bed. It was difficult to get him to leave it on the weekend for any reason. Maybe that was his way to de-stress (he wouldn't admit that was the case and he always minimized much time he spent sitting in front of it). The problem was that between his career and the tv there was very little time for family activities (and he would sulk and pout when I would periodically put my foot down about that). 

What does our son remember of his childhood? That if his father was home then he was glued to the tv and very rarely outside throwing a football or baseball or doing anything else with him. He did go to most of our son's games and I'm glad he at least has that memory (along with our vacations that were fun). Today? I don't own a tv.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

Doesn't sound like there's any plan.

You moved out to get away from him.

Ok, now what? You think maybe he'll start to miss you and realize he might have screwed up and he'll call you and beg for forgiveness and he'll be on his best behavior for the rest of your natural lives? That won't happen. Any change will be temporary at best if he even cares enough to try.

Counseling to work through the problems and develop strategies to improve and fix what's broken? Probably a waste of time and money.

If the move out is to prepare you for living apart and gradually disengaging you're on the right track.

I always suggest seek the services of a mediator prior to jumping right into consultation with an attorney because that's usually not a cost effective way to end a marriage- the attorneys always win and the clients lose. Unless you're the woman with young kids and you don't work outside the home in which case the guy is usually a sitting duck for whatever the attorneys throw at him.


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## maxww (Dec 12, 2016)

Do I miss him? Yes, I do and a lot. While it is exhilarating to be free, I miss seeing him around, even though he is glued to the TV. I don't have a real plan. I was originally going to act normal and keep putting up with his treatment until he snapped out of it. It might take a couple of weeks/months but it worked before. I guess somehow I just couldn't take it any longer and at that moment, I lost it and left. 

I do not envision that he'll beg or change; that is why I don't know how to go on. I sometimes pretend that I am him so I can understand his side of the story. I know from the men's perspective, it can be very different. Before we were married, my husband took care of everything and he is a couple of years older so I followed him around like a little puppy. I never questioned anything he said and he thought I was going to be an obedient wife. He and I graduated with the same degree and in the same field. It was a man's field. At first, it was very hard for me since I was shy when I was young. To survive in a man's field, I adapted and morphed into very assertive and aggressive. I am not afraid of confrontation and never walk away from one when I am at work. I finally became the manager of the group. As for my husband, his career took off too and he became the vice president of the company. When we were at college, we competed for grades. He was the top student in his year and I was the top student in mine. After college, I guess we are still competitors in a sense. He always feels like that he needs to stay ahead of me to prove that he has a better career and bring home more money. 

My demure behavior to him started to change after marriage. I began taking over managing of the finance and everything in the household. I did that because I cannot stand things idle and not done on time. He often complains that I am dominant and controlling. He also said I had changed while he stayed the same. I also became very outgoing with a lot of friends. On the other hand, he has very few friends and his world revolves around mine. When I am away either working or with friends, he feels very lonely and has said many times that he doesn't know what to do when I am not around. 

His career hit a standstill 7 years ago. He had conflicts and disagreement with the management of the company so he wanted to quit. He wanted me to quit too at the time. I would lose all my pension and I didn't think financially, we were ready to retire. Seeing his emotional distress and trying to sooth him, I promised him that I would retire after I am eligible for pension. Well, a couple of months before I became eligible, he keeps bugging me every single day. I think now he sees that I do not want to retire yet, he gets very upset, saying that he is tired of working his entire life. I did offer a compromise of me working only part time or he can retire first but he is not willing to accept. He said if he stays home while the wife is working, people will think he is a loafer. He asked me the schedule of my retirement but I can't give him an answer. He said all he ever wants is to go tour the world with me so we can spend our remaining years happily together. 

I don't want to just blame him for deterioration of our relationship. I will not be able to go back and be the naive, obedient girl at 16. Sometimes I thought if I can turn back time, I would just be a stay home mom and we could be happier. He truly hasn't changed; it is I who have become somebody that is different. I know he does have intense feeling for me; it is just he cannot express it in the way a woman would like and do things the way we want. I used to care for him more. Whenever we fought and he ditched out his silent treatment, I would always relent so we can make up but that has stopped long time ago. I can sense his insecurity sometimes when he is talking to me. I totally understand that he will never change. The question is should I? I'll retire someday so why not now? How do I trade 35 years of marriage versus remaining years of independence? Divorce is the obvious path and it is an easy answer but sometimes it is harder just to stay. I just don't know how???

Sorry again for another long post!


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

maxww said:


> Do I miss him? Yes, I do and a lot. While it is exhilarating to be free, I miss seeing him around, even though he is glued to the TV. I don't have a real plan. I was originally going to act normal and keep putting up with his treatment until he snapped out of it. It might take a couple of weeks/months but it worked before. I guess somehow I just couldn't take it any longer and at that moment, I lost it and left.
> 
> I do not envision that he'll beg or change; that is why I don't know how to go on. I sometimes pretend that I am him so I can understand his side of the story. I know from the men's perspective, it can be very different. Before we were married, my husband took care of everything and he is a couple of years older so I followed him around like a little puppy. I never questioned anything he said and he thought I was going to be an obedient wife. He and I graduated with the same degree and in the same field. It was a man's field. At first, it was very hard for me since I was shy when I was young. To survive in a man's field, I adapted and morphed into very assertive and aggressive. I am not afraid of confrontation and never walk away from one when I am at work. I finally became the manager of the group. As for my husband, his career took off too and he became the vice president of the company. When we were at college, we competed for grades. He was the top student in his year and I was the top student in mine. After college, I guess we are still competitors in a sense. He always feels like that he needs to stay ahead of me to prove that he has a better career and bring home more money.
> 
> ...


What a complete self-centered a*sshole.

Everything is *ALL* about him, isn't it? Yes, it's HIS world, we just live in it.

Do NOT compromise your financial plan just to pander to this selfish ass.

Sadly, I'm willing to bet you've spent 35 YEARS pandering to him - and I also believe I'd win that bet.


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## Rockclimber (Nov 1, 2016)

It sounds like things are really not that bad. Read up on a mans 5 love languages and a woman's 5 love languages, you are both missing quite a few of them. I still think that both of you should read 5+ books on the subject and take it from there, you are both highly educated and should be able to absorb the information quite quickly. I found in my own experience that while my IQ was exceptionally high my EQ was exceptionally low and I needed to read on the subject for 100+ hours to just scratch the surface of my inner EQ. Your husband might have an "ah ha" moment like I did, it is worth a try.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

browser said:


> Doesn't sound like there's any plan.
> 
> You moved out to get away from him.
> 
> Ok, now what? You think maybe he'll start to miss you and realize he might have screwed up and he'll call you and beg for forgiveness and he'll be on his best behavior for the rest of your natural lives? That won't happen. Any change will be temporary at best if he even cares enough to try.


People who haven't lived with a negative person don't understand that, after awhile, all the partner wants is peace. To wake up and not hear a negative comment; not be bombarded with anger; be able to think positive thoughts without having them dashed. I love my husband and he's a good man overall, but my daydream is just to wake up each day and not have to hear all the negativity; not wait for his next bout of anger or irritation or snarkiness; not choose what I do or say so as to not set him off; curtail my actions so they don't lead to him questioning my integrity or choices. _To just live a positive life_.

When someone finally leaves that, they aren't hoping for change from the person they're escaping from; they are searching for peace.

IME, this is something men often fail to realize - that a man's aggression, ease to anger, quickness to criticize are JUST as painful to a woman as punching her in the stomach. You men are coming here and saying 'What's your beef? It's not that bad. You're just not working hard enough.' No offense, but you don't know what you're talking about.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

turnera said:


> People who haven't lived with a negative person don't understand that, after awhile, all the partner wants is peace. To wake up and not hear a negative comment; not be bombarded with anger; be able to think positive thoughts without having them dashed. I love my husband and he's a good man overall, but my daydream is just to wake up each day and not have to hear all the negativity; not wait for his next bout of anger or irritation or snarkiness; not choose what I do or say so as to not set him off; curtail my actions so they don't lead to him questioning my integrity or choices. _To just live a positive life_.
> 
> When someone finally leaves that, they aren't hoping for change from the person they're escaping from; they are searching for peace.
> 
> IME, this is something men often fail to realize - that a man's aggression, ease to anger, quickness to criticize are JUST as painful to a woman as punching her in the stomach. You men are coming here and saying 'What's your beef? It's not that bad. You're just not working hard enough.' No offense, but you don't know what you're talking about.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

turnera said:


> People who haven't lived with a negative person don't understand that, after awhile, all the partner wants is peace. To wake up and not hear a negative comment; not be bombarded with anger; be able to think positive thoughts without having them dashed. I love my husband and he's a good man overall, but my daydream is just to wake up each day and not have to hear all the negativity; not wait for his next bout of anger or irritation or snarkiness; not choose what I do or say so as to not set him off; curtail my actions so they don't lead to him questioning my integrity or choices. _To just live a positive life_.
> 
> When someone finally leaves that, they aren't hoping for change from the person they're escaping from; they are searching for peace.
> 
> IME, this is something men often fail to realize - that a man's aggression, ease to anger, quickness to criticize are JUST as painful to a woman as punching her in the stomach. You men are coming here and saying 'What's your beef? It's not that bad. You're just not working hard enough.' No offense, but you don't know what you're talking about.




It works both ways T. Sometimes a guy just wants to get away from the wife, the negativity, the passive aggression. 

People who stay in these relationships have their own problems, just like the aggressor. 

IME the spouse seeks out that type of person. Then complains when they are not happy. 

Self included.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The difference, blue, is that in most cases, men's needs are still being met by the women, as women are more typically raised to ensure everyone gets taken care of, and their needs come last. That's why there are dozens of books about Walkaway Wives.

You're speaking from your own situation, which is not the norm, so it's clear why you see it that way. You chose to stay for your own reasons; they don't necessarily apply to others.

fwiw, my H was the funniest, friendliest, happiest man I've ever met; that's why I married him. But when he started not being able to achieve his dreams, the negativity and the blaming everyone else for all his problems started creeping in. Until all he IS is negative. Our MC told him to just come up with 5 positive things to say - about anything. He couldn't. It sucks the life out of you.

You seem really touchy lately, blue.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

turnera said:


> The difference, blue, is that in most cases, men's needs are still being met by the women, as women are more typically raised to ensure everyone gets taken care of, and their needs come last. That's why there are dozens of books about Walkaway Wives.
> 
> You're speaking from your own situation, which is not the norm, so it's clear why you see it that way. You chose to stay for your own reasons; they don't necessarily apply to others.
> 
> ...




I realize you mentioned "IME" in your post. I was giving my IME to say that it is not only a MEN thing. Lots of husbands here have posted about negative wives. My W's BFF is one of them. Any comment sets her off. While it may be the minority, it does exist. 

And I do believe we seek out those we need when courting. Some women seek out men to replace Daddy, then complain when they are treated like a child. 

In hindsight I sought out the spouse I needed. 

It has nothing to do with being touchy T.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

turnera said:


> The difference, blue, is that in most cases, men's needs are still being met by the women, as women are more typically raised to ensure everyone gets taken care of, and their needs come last. That's why there are dozens of books about Walkaway Wives.
> 
> You're speaking from your own situation, which is not the norm, so it's clear why you see it that way. You chose to stay for your own reasons; they don't necessarily apply to others.


Most men are not here because their relationships are in good shape. 

That said, when you make posts like this, it rings pretty empty with those men, myself included. While you may be factually correct, my world often looks a lot different then what is stated here.

Keep that in mind when you get a post like the previous one Blue put up.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I understand people are in pain. 

I posted because someone was minimizing her issues and saying it doesn't seem 'all that bad'; so I was trying to inform people as to the thought process of why a woman would walk away just because of negativity. Psychologically and sociologically, women address problems differently from men, in general. And women ARE more likely to be submissive in a relationship for many reasons and therefore often feel a lack of options.

Say 'just fix it' all you want; there's a reason most abuse victims are women.

T/J over.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

i was trying to muster some sympathy for him (being passive aggressive) since i fight that myself. 

but then i read how he insists you retire together so he isn't seen as a loafer (to the neighbors?).
that's juvenile! if he has the where with all and pension to retire, then do it. don't insist you have to do it too???? 
just plain juvenile!

you are very fortunate to have a haven to escape to when he throws his passive aggressive tantrums.

keep doing that.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

A lot of people go silent simply because their partner has been unreasonably aggressive. That's not what I see here but we're only hearing one side. You state you had to become more aggressive to survive at work. First try counseling. Does your husband avoid you to keep the peace? What does he do around the house besides watch tv?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Btw, which of you refused to go to counseling?


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