# Frustration



## VickiH1105 (Jul 5, 2020)

Ok so I’m 63. I had been married almost 30 years to an extremely jealous man with anger issues. Kids were grown and we we were just getting farther apart. I honestly did nothing but go to church! Then another episode and that was finally it, I was done. So we got a divorce almost 2 years later. I then met this amazing man and 2 + years later we were married. He seriously swept me off my feet. He had been married nearly 35 years and our stories were somewhat similar. Our personalities are quite different but he was very attentive, kind, generous and a good man. As a small business owner he was outgoing and very talkative. I’ve found lately that he is rather inconsiderate. We’ve been married just over 3 years. In the beginning his 19 year old daughter moved in with us. He had 3 rules for her, to clean up after herself, no guys in her bedroom and to keep her cat in the basement since he was allergic. I found the rules were just words and when strange guys were coming in and out and he did nothing I finally said something. I worked and my 77 year old moms bedroom was right next to hers. That nearly destroyed us. She blew up at me and my husband finally told her if she didn’t stop she’d have to leave. She had already planned to move. So to more recent. Only being married 3 years, he doesn’t do nice things for me; goes out of town for work and barely calls me, makes decisions for me without asking me and allowing me to make my own decision, tells me he’s going fishing with his son today, the 4th of July, 6 am to noon so I get food and figured we’d have the afternoon for family or friends things. At 1:30 I text him to see how long he’d be. He tells me out another hour and then head in. Meaning I’ll see him around 4:00. It’s a beautiful day and I’m home alone. I ask him to pick me up on the boat so I could enjoy the day too. He said he’d just head in. Finally 3:15 he gets home. I’m obviously hurt and upset. He apologizes but I don’t get it and I’m having a hard time being around him and enjoying his company. He’s now sunburned, tired and once again leaves me out of the decision, doesn’t do what he told me he was going to do and here it is the 4th and I’m bored and alone while he sleeps. Just a week ago it was a similar situation. So I don’t feel very good about our relationship. I’m frustrated and hurt.. I retired so it’s his income and his stuff it seems. I’m just going along for his ride when he wants me to. He is a good man but frivolous with money. Kind of a loud show off. I feel like a ***** but I’m not feeling the love, consideration or thoughtfulness. I hate the holiday was such a bummer and that he didn’t do what he said again or reach out to me. I had to call him and find out he’s planning on another 2 hours assuming I don’t want to do anything and then I’m supposed to get over it with the snap of a finger while he sleeps the whole evening away. I don’t feel like going off to party alone but I wish I did! And he’s hard to talk to. Communication is difficult!


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

VickiH1105 said:


> Only being married 3 years, he doesn’t do nice things for me


I'm wondering what only being married 3 years has to do with it.



VickiH1105 said:


> goes out of town for work and barely calls me


Do you ask him to call when he's away?



VickiH1105 said:


> makes decisions for me without asking me and allowing me to make my own decision


I dated a guy who was like that. I mean I very briefly dated a guy who was like that. LOL



VickiH1105 said:


> tells me he’s going fishing with his son today, the 4th of July, 6 am to noon so I get food and figured we’d have the afternoon for family or friends things.


I'm wondering why you figured that. Was it something you and he discussed or did you assume it? To say "I figured" normally means you assumed something, but did you and he make plans, or did you assume the afternoon would be spent with family and friends after he came back home at noon?



VickiH1105 said:


> At 1:30 I text him to see how long he’d be. He tells me out another hour and then head in. Meaning I’ll see him around 4:00. It’s a beautiful day and I’m home alone. I ask him to pick me up on the boat so I could enjoy the day too. He said he’d just head in.


He'd been out on the boat all day and was also sunburned. He understandably wouldn't want to stay out any longer.



VickiH1105 said:


> He is a good man but frivolous with money.


Your complaining about him and also saying he's frivolous with money doesn't make him sound like a good man. So why do you call him a good man if he's unloving, thoughtless, inconsiderate, and frivolous with money?



VickiH1105 said:


> I retired so it’s his income and his stuff it seems. I’m just going along for his ride when he wants me to


I'm not sure where that came from. What does it have to do with everything else you told us about?



VickiH1105 said:


> And he’s hard to talk to. Communication is difficult!


Please forgive me for saying, but I found your post a little bit awkward to follow. I know it can be difficult for a person to get their thoughts together when posting on a forum sometimes. And given that you are so upset and disappointed can make it even harder. It's possible both these reasons make your post a bit difficult and disjointed, but it does make me wonder if "hard to talk to" and "communication is difficult" are the same terms he would use for you, which would mean neither of you are communicating very well. The impression you gave us is that you assumed you and he would spend the afternoon together. If there were plans made between you or if you told him you wanted to go somewhere, you didn't communicate that to us. And if you did inform him that you had plans of doing things, did you make it clear you were including him in those plans? Did you say "I'm planning on being with family and friends this afternoon"? Or, did you say "I'm planning on us being with family and friends this afternoon"? Do you see what I mean? Because you didn't make it clear to us in your post, I'm trying to ascertain if you are certain that you made it clear to him. Communication is hard sometimes, and we women can be bad at it like we think men are. Something we are very often guilty of is thinking men can or should read our minds.

I'm sorry your afternoon was ruined and you're feeling so disappointed, and it really sucks that he stayed out much later than he said he was going to. But I really think he would have been tired and sunburned even if he had returned at noon. I'm afraid you would have been disappointed anyway, but at least he would have kept his word and returned at the time he said he was going to. That was incredibly thoughtless of him. The only thing is not knowing how you communicated your plans to him keeps creeping into my head because if he wasn't clear in reading your post that he knew the plans you made included him, then he possibly didn't know there would be a problem staying out later than originally intended. Is it possible that because he didn't know, he expected he would be coming home to an empty house so he thought he might as well stay out?

At any rate, if he's usually thoughtless, doesn't communicate with you, makes decisions for you, etc., then I really think he's not as good a man as you say he is. And it kind of looks like he turned into a different person from the one he presented himself to be when you met and married him. It's not uncommon for people to do that kind of bait and switch in order to impress their partner into marrying them. And then after the nuptials, Mr. Hyde is who you end up with.

Do you think marriage counseling could help? A good counselor might be able to help the two of you communicate your expectations to each other, as well make him see how inconsiderate and controlling it is for him to make decisions for you. Otherwise, if he's so hard to talk to, I don't know how you could get your point across.


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## VickiH1105 (Jul 5, 2020)

StarFires said:


> I'm wondering what only being married 3 years has to do with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First of all, thanks for your reply! And I must say as this is my first time on this forum, trying to express my hurt amidst the moment was hard. Trying to get all my thoughts and feelings out in as few words as possible is challenging!
So in response, I think 3 years is fairly new and being kind and thoughtful of your person is important so you should want to show that and I guess at any time.
Yes, I do ask him to call when he’s out of town. But, I also think it means more if he would do it without me having to ask.
Regarding yesterday, he told me noon so when noon rolled around I think a phone call from him would have been nice to at least check in. We hadn’t made definite plans but at that point at least I would have felt he was making an effort to include me. It’s a holiday, I’m home alone, I’m his wife, he said noon. I’m not just a girlfriend and it’s a holiday. We have other kids and other friends. We make plans together. I don’t just make them and fill him in later. We try to do this together because we each have kids and families to consider. So I contact him at 1:30 finally and I’m told he’s going to be another hour before he even heads in. I just think it’s inconsiderate. So then I’m upset with him and the day is shot because now he’s sunburnt and tired. Hello, there’s sunscreen on the boat and you’re married and your wife is expecting you. Totally disregarding that hurts!
I’ve never had a lot. Now I have more because he has some money and spends it. I know there’s a limit to it and he acts like saving isn’t important. And if I ask, he pretty much shuts down like it’s not my business. I’ve always worked however and he says it’s ours but I’m sure if I hopped on the boat without him and took off for the holiday telling him I’d be home at a certain time and then didn’t contact him and then say in a few hours, he wouldn’t be very happy about it. We’re docked at a club and he’ll go down and tell me he’ll be right back. When I call him he says there’s a party and they’re asking about me but he said I wasn’t feeling well. Again, made a decision for me rather than asking me. 
Counseling is on the agenda. And then I saw this platform amidst my pain! 
I say he’s a good man because in many ways he is. He’s not a cheater type, he’s not an angry type, he’s a good dad and nice to people, maybe to the point of being a people pleaser (except to me at times) and thinks he has to pay for everything even though I’ve told him he doesn’t have to and so have others. He is fine with my mom living with us (she lived with me before we got married). I almost feel like I don’t have the right to get upset with him about anything. I’m along for his ride and I don’t like it. I can’t keep expressing myself to him on this but I feel like I need to vent. The disappointment is still there but he apologized so there’s nothing more to say.
thank you for your feedback.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

VickiH1105 said:


> and nice to people, maybe to the point of being a people pleaser (except to me at times) and thinks he has to pay for everything even though I’ve told him he doesn’t have to and so have others.


Sometimes, it's not a matter of being a nice person or a people pleaser at all but more a matter of impression management. Most narcissists go to great lengths to make people (outsiders) think they are the greatest person in the world for the purpose of gaining their admiration but to their significant other (the insider), they are quite, if not very, mentally and emotionally abusive (which oftentimes escalates to physical abuse too), depriving her of his attention and wonderfulness that he shows to the outside world and making her feel like she can't be right about anything. So she dares not question or complain because he can't allow anything to damage the image he has of himself or the "good man" image of him that he created in others. That's the reason you said "_he apologized so there’s nothing more to say._" He doesn't care that you are disappointed. He disappointed you on purpose to get the attention all on himself. He dismissed you so that you would be upset but then prevented you from complaining and expressing your displeasure. You are his ego supply.

And this makes me wonder about the Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde personality that I mentioned before. It's a common narcissistic trait. So answer me these:

1. Did he call more when he was away before you married, or did he never really take the time to call?
2. Did he listen and do as you asked before marriage, or was he always dismissive of your feelings?
3. Did he keep his word before, or did he often disappoint you?
4. Did he usually make decisions for you and exclude you, or did he usually include you? (The guy I dated that I mentioned before, he was very much a narcissist, true to the textbook definition) .

I can't think of all the questions to ask because I don't know the whole dynamic of your relationship, but you should think about these things and ask yourself these types of questions. I'm just wondering if he baited you into marriage and then switched personalities and characteristics afterward.

And while you're deconstructing and analyzing your relationship dynamic and his behaviors, don't forget that you told us this:


VickiH1105 said:


> Our personalities are quite different but he was very attentive, kind, generous and a good man. As a small business owner he was outgoing and very talkative. I’ve found lately that he is rather inconsiderate.


And ended up telling us how very different from that he is now, including this:


VickiH1105 said:


> And he’s hard to talk to. Communication is difficult!


I didn't point it out before but now that I have a much better picture of your husband, I want to point out now that your statement of him sweeping you off your feet is something that always, ALWAYS, jumps out at me because it's what narcissists do to make their victim fall for them. So, every time I see a woman write those words, I wish I could snap her out of it.

Another thing I want to snap you out of is calling him a good man. He's not a good man. He had to make you think he was. Consider, as just one example, that allowing your mom to live with you guys is one reason you think he's a good man. But now consider what he was expected to do otherwise. Not allow your mom to live there? But refusing would have damaged his image, and he couldn't allow that to happen.



VickiH1105 said:


> And there's also this:
> So in response, I think 3 years is fairly new and being kind and thoughtful of your person is important so you should want to show that and I guess at any time.


In response to you thinking that as well as thinking he's a good man, I want to submit this from *Help Guide: Narcissistic Personality Disorder.....*

*"Take off the rose-colored glasses.*_ It’s important to see the narcissist in your life for who they really are, not who you want them to be."_

Read that webpage and also *read other articles* so you get a clear picture of the disorder and are able to compare the clinical signs and indications with your husband's traits and behaviors.



VickiH1105 said:


> I’ve never had a lot. Now I have more because he has some money and spends it. I know there’s a limit to it and he acts like saving isn’t important. And if I ask, he pretty much shuts down like it’s not my business.


^ This is financial abuse ^



VickiH1105 said:


> Regarding yesterday, he told me noon so when noon rolled around I think a phone call from him would have been nice to at least check in. We hadn’t made definite plans but at that point at least I would have felt he was making an effort to include me. It’s a holiday, I’m home alone, I’m his wife, he said noon. I’m not just a girlfriend and it’s a holiday.


You're going to have to cease expectations of what you think a husband should be and how you think a husband should behave. This is one of those things I mentioned before about how we women expect our men to read our minds. And for you, it's an even bigger issue because I fear you are married to a narcissist, and narcissists don't comply with conventional wisdom or expectations. Like I said, he disappointed you deliberately. If you keep comparing him to the image of the ideal husband you have in your head, YOU will disappoint yourself over and over. If you keep expecting him to be the person he made you think he is, then HE will keep disappointing you over and over.

And stop staying things you can't possibly know, such as "_he's not a cheater type_." You can't know that because you can't know what he's doing when you're not around. HIs business trips??? He was out fishing with his son for 8 or 9 hours??? He left you at a party to talk to other people??? You simply can't know what he does or when. All you know is that you don't know anything about him cheating on you. I'm not trying to place that in your mind. I'm just saying you shouldn't say things that you don't know about. It's part of an image of him that you created in your head.



VickiH1105 said:


> I’m along for his ride and I don’t like it.


The guy I mentioned that I dated? He kept me in a constant state of confusion. You wouldn't have thought I had known this man my entire life and was 33 when we got together, which was great until we moved in together. The crap began literally the day I moved in.I was always trying to figure out what I did wrong. I was always trying to untangle his skeins. I was always trying to redeem myself and my own sense of logic because nothing he did or said ever made sense despite him being an intelligent man and electronic engineer with inventions and patents and airplanes and spoiled me like nobody's baby.

Then one day, after living with him for nearly 3 months and found myself once again trying to unwind myself from yet another of his balls of confusion, it occurred to me that it really didn't matter if I could figure it all out. It didn't matter if I was right or wrong. It didn't matter if what he does and says makes sense or not. The only thing that matters is I DON'T LIKE IT! And then I moved out 3 days later.

Take from that what you will.


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## VickiH1105 (Jul 5, 2020)

StarFires said:


> Sometimes, it's not a matter of being a nice person or a people pleaser at all but more a matter of impression management. Most narcissists go to great lengths to make people (outsiders) think they are the greatest person in the world for the purpose of gaining their admiration but to their significant other (the insider), they are quite, if not very, mentally and emotionally abusive (which oftentimes escalates to physical abuse too), depriving her of his attention and wonderfulness that he shows to the outside world and making her feel like she can't be right about anything. So she dares not question or complain because he can't allow anything to damage the image he has of himself or the "good man" image of him that he created in others. That's the reason you said "_he apologized so there’s nothing more to say._" He doesn't care that you are disappointed. He disappointed you on purpose to get the attention all on himself. He dismissed you so that you would be upset but then prevented you from complaining and expressing your displeasure. You are his ego supply.
> 
> And this makes me wonder about the Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde personality that I mentioned before. It's a common narcissistic trait. So answer me these:
> 
> ...


Wow! Talk about enlightening! What is your background in? To me, I’m fairly new to the term narcissist and it was used frequently about my husbands ex-wife. They had 5 children. He’s quite close to 3 of them. The youngest moved away with his mom. 
But what I’m finding interesting and would like to grasp more is about him not caring that the disappointed me and did it on purpose to get the attention on himself and then dismissing me and not allowing me to express my displeasure. I see that frequently. He says I’m repeating myself and he gets defensive rather than trying to comfort me. 
To answer your questions, he was very attentive, polite, gentlemanly, he doesn’t go on a lot of business trips but we didn’t live together until we got married so he did call me. I do recall a few incidents however when I was playing cards with my mom and he started playing for me. It bothered me and I told him he could play his own hand and I really didn’t need him to think for me. And a few times when he dominates conversations speaking directly to other women and not including me. It’s all about him sometimes and I find it rude. He definitely likes attention! I can almost imagine why his ex did some of the things she did but unfortunately her need for attention turned into affairs, drinking and flaunting herself...
I went from a jealous man that would become very angry and accuse me of ridiculous things to the exact opposite. I’m thankful Randy’s not jealous or an angry person. But sometimes I get so frustrated. Im sure he thinks I have anger issues and I would love never to get frustrated with him but I tend to say what I think. I’m not good with the silent treatment. But I also don’t stay angry. I’d just rather talk about things or have an argument as to do the silent treatment.
So once again, thank you for your feedback and the recommendation. I will read up on the narcissist behaviors.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

@VickiH1105 In an earlier post you used the word "girlfriend" as if that's something bad. But it sounds like what's missing from your marriage is the "girlfriend" aspect of it. You're just there. Nothing particularly special. Would he even be jealous if you were paying attention to another man? Have you had a discussion about boundaries, or does it seem like there's no need because he's just not that kind of guy? He may not be that kind of guy, but having the discussion about boundaries helps to point out what the expectations are WITHIN the marriage. And those expectations aren't being met. Along those lines, is he meeting your needs for physical intimacy? And vice versa?


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## VickiH1105 (Jul 5, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> @VickiH1105 In an earlier post you used the word "girlfriend" as if that's something bad. But it sounds like what's missing from your marriage is the "girlfriend" aspect of it. You're just there. Nothing particularly special. Would he even be jealous if you were paying attention to another man? Have you had a discussion about boundaries, or does it seem like there's no need because he's just not that kind of guy? He may not be that kind of guy, but having the discussion about boundaries helps to point out what the expectations are WITHIN the marriage. And those expectations aren't being met. Along those lines, is he meeting your needs for physical intimacy? And vice versa?


I guess my comment about “girlfriend” meant to say no commitment, no responsibility, no team or oneness in considering your person. 
I have talked to him about it and at times he respects my wishes and at other times he is just loud and dominates the conversation and talks directly to other women rather than including me or others. It bothersme and sometimes I just find someone else to talk to or I’ll nudge his leg if it’s excessive. But no, I don’t think he’d be jealous if I were paying attention to another man. From what I’ve heard, his ex would actually sit on a guys lap with cleavage in their face or slow dance with a guy for him to get jealous. I don’t do that. Apparently she drank excessively with little self control. But if he was totally focused on someone else, I could see her looking for attention. It’s too bad it went too far with 5 children.
Physical needs/desires being met... in the beginning we were very intimate and regular and into the first year of marriage. I think due to some problems we’ve experienced, his stress with work, my mom living with us, some physical problems, we’ve really slacked off! I have talked to him about foreplay as it seems to be lacking, some romanticism rather than silliness, kissing... guess I’m not exactly sure what the problem is. I know I’m not perfect but he really doesn’t try talking to me about things.
Thanks for your comments.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The mask he wore when you were dating is gone. You’re seeing the real him now.

Change at his age is unlikely so that leaves you with a decision.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

VickiH1105 said:


> I have talked to him about foreplay as it seems to be lacking, some romanticism rather than silliness, kissing... guess I’m not exactly sure what the problem is. I know I’m not perfect but he really doesn’t try talking to me about things.


You know what? Sometimes, it's us women who have to bring the romance. Yes, I know that's no fun LOL. But if he never did that part, then it can be rather uncomfortable for him to be expected to suddenly begin. Maybe try doing for him the types of things you want him to do for you. It'll give him an idea of what you expect. If he still doesn't do them, you may have to accept he's just not a romantic kind of guy. Or that maybe he's just being contrary and refusing to be thoughtful in that manner. Narcissists aren't thoughtful people. They are very selfish people. And deliberately antagonizing. If he's like that, then he will withhold just to be spiteful to upset you, like with ruining your holiday the way he did.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

There's really no changing someone and especially at an older age. since he doesn't include you in plans and even makes up excuses so that other people can't include you in the plans, damned if I wouldn't just make my own plans for that day separate from him and enjoy life a little. There's obviously times he prefers to leave you at home. With a house full like there is there it doesn't surprise me that anyone would want some time off by themselves. but obviously the way he's going about it isn't fair or nice. 

But this is who he is, so you know who this is what he's going to do and you should just make your own plans with your friends or family separate and apart from his. tell him you're making your own plans and don't do any more for him as far as getting in touch as he does for you.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> There's really no changing someone and especially at an older age. since he doesn't include you in plans and even makes up excuses so that other people can't include you in the plans, damned if I wouldn't just make my own plans for that day separate from him and enjoy life a little. There's obviously times he prefers to leave you at home. With a house full like there is there it doesn't surprise me that anyone would want some time off by themselves. but obviously the way he's going about it isn't fair or nice.
> 
> But this is who he is, so you know who this is what he's going to do and you should just make your own plans with your friends or family separate and apart from his. tell him you're making your own plans and don't do any more for him as far as getting in touch as he does for you.


If her husband has a narcissistic personality like I suspect, her doing this will bring a helluva price to pay.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@VickiH1105 "He's a good man." Ummm no. He isn't.


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## VickiH1105 (Jul 5, 2020)

VickiH1105 said:


> Wow! Talk about enlightening! What is your background in? To me, I’m fairly new to the term narcissist and it was used frequently about my husbands ex-wife. They had 5 children. He’s quite close to 3 of them. The youngest moved away with his mom.
> But what I’m finding interesting and would like to grasp more is about him not caring that the disappointed me and did it on purpose to get the attention on himself and then dismissing me and not allowing me to express my displeasure. I see that frequently. He says I’m repeating myself and he gets defensive rather than trying to comfort me.
> To answer your questions, he was very attentive, polite, gentlemanly, he doesn’t go on a lot of business trips but we didn’t live together until we got married so he did call me. I do recall a few incidents however when I was playing cards with my mom and he started playing for me. It bothered me and I told him he could play his own hand and I really didn’t need him to think for me. And a few times when he dominates conversations speaking directly to other women and not including me. It’s all about him sometimes and I find it rude. He definitely likes attention! I can almost imagine why his ex did some of the things she did but unfortunately her need for attention turned into affairs, drinking and flaunting herself...
> I went from a jealous man that would become very angry and accuse me of ridiculous things to the exact opposite. I’m thankful Randy’s not jealous or an angry person. But sometimes I get so frustrated. Im sure he thinks I have anger issues and I would love never to get frustrated with him but I tend to say what I think. I’m not good with the silent treatment. But I also don’t stay angry. I’d just rather talk about things or have an argument as to do the silent treatment.
> So once again, thank you for your feedback and the recommendation. I will read up on the narcissist behaviors.


Starfires


StarFires said:


> You know what? Sometimes, it's us women who have to bring the romance. Yes, I know that's no fun LOL. But if he never did that part, then it can be rather uncomfortable for him to be expected to suddenly begin. Maybe try doing for him the types of things you want him to do for you. It'll give him an idea of what you expect. If he still doesn't do them, you may have to accept he's just not a romantic kind of guy. Or that maybe he's just being contrary and refusing to be thoughtful in that manner. Narcissists aren't thoughtful people. They are very selfish people. And deliberately antagonizing. If he's like that, then he will withhold just to be spiteful to upset you, like with ruining your holiday the way he did.


Thank you again! I appreciate your comments. However I must say in the beginning he was pretty romantic, funny, but also romantic. I’m not saying excessively but kissing helps and the sweet words and I guess I was way more affectionate, couldn’t get enough of each other. So I do caress him, rub his back... I know he gets it because he’s commented and he does try sometimes. I guess if he’s not more attentive that way, it doesn’t sound good for me. 
mid you don’t mind, I’d like to ask you about your comment about when he dismissed my feelings I tried to share about my disappointment on the 4th. Yes he apologized but I apparently wouldn’t drop it quick enough so he got upset with me. Like I said, I don’t stay angry for long but I do want to express myself and I hate it when he gets all defensive rather than comforting me. I’ve tried to tell him. Is there anyway to help him understand? Idon’t want to feel like I’m always on shaky ground but that I have a safe place.


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## VickiH1105 (Jul 5, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> There's really no changing someone and especially at an older age. since he doesn't include you in plans and even makes up excuses so that other people can't include you in the plans, damned if I wouldn't just make my own plans for that day separate from him and enjoy life a little. There's obviously times he prefers to leave you at home. With a house full like there is there it doesn't surprise me that anyone would want some time off by themselves. but obviously the way he's going about it isn't fair or nice.
> 
> But this is who he is, so you know who this is what he's going to do and you should just make your own plans with your friends or family separate and apart from his. tell him you're making your own plans and don't do any more for him as far as getting in touch as he does for you.


Thx for your response. I must say on occasion I do just that and plan something with friends or family. And it appears he could care less. He goes to sleep or plays a video game. So I feel my situation is different because he told me something and didn’t do it or even call or consider me. I have a hard time doing that if he’s expecting me and doing it would just make things worse.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Why are you staying? Why not leave? Life is too short to be this unhappy. Wouldn't you prefer to live the rest of your life at peace? Trust me, I'm speaking from experience here.


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## VickiH1105 (Jul 5, 2020)

Prodigal said:


> Why are you staying? Why not leave? Life is too short to be this unhappy. Wouldn't you prefer to live the rest of your life at peace? Trust me, I'm speaking from experience here.


I guess there’s a few reasons, I still love him, I’m 63, I’ve been married 3 times (the last for almost 30 years but we had kids) and there really are some jerks out there and I don’t really want to spend my golden years alone unless it can’t be avoided. I’m trying to understand what I’m dealing with, get out my frustrations and hopefully get better. 
thank you


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

VickiH1105 said:


> Thx for your response. I must say on occasion I do just that and plan something with friends or family. And it appears he could care less. He goes to sleep or plays a video game. So I feel my situation is different because he told me something and didn’t do it or even call or consider me. I have a hard time doing that if he’s expecting me and doing it would just make things worse.


Honestly I think that would be even more reason to do it. He's probably telling you that specifically to keep you from making plans as a little way of controlling you. I mean look how he answered for you and you were invited somewhere. He doesn't want you to go and he probably gets a little kick of you being at home waiting for him. 

I had a roommate once he was always not following through on plans and I just quit making plans with her. even if we were going to the same place I just started taking my own car. Doing the same old thing over and over again certainly isn't going to change anything.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I divorced, when I was older than you are, after a very long marriage. I can tell you from experience that the odds of him changing at his age are basically zero. You’ll either accept him as is or you’ll leave. There are much worse things than being alone.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

VickiH1105 said:


> Starfires
> I’d like to ask you about your comment about when he dismissed my feelings I tried to share about my disappointment on the 4th. Yes he apologized but I apparently wouldn’t drop it quick enough so he got upset with me. Like I said, I don’t stay angry for long but I do want to express myself and I hate it when he gets all defensive rather than comforting me. I’ve tried to tell him. Is there anyway to help him understand? Idon’t want to feel like I’m always on shaky ground but that I have a safe place.


Vicki, I'm sorry I didn't see your question yesterday. Let me share a little story.

I was watching a documentary about a guy who had stolen millions of dollars from 4 or 5 (or 6 or 7 lol) women. He was married to several of them and after he was discovered, charged, and jailed, the women were asked to do an interview. Two of them had become good friends and were the ones who discovered each other and his scoundrel ways, so they did the interview together, while others were interviewed individually. As part of the interview and out of natural curiosity, the two women were asked if he was a good lover. They each burst out laughing in the negative at the exact same time. So, the interviewer asked then what it was that attracted them to him. They answered at the same time "He was a good listener."

That was clearly something the guy had picked up on as being a particular need for women. He was a bigamist scoundrel and thief so he knew he had to have good game, and boy did he make a good game out of being adept at making women feel special and important by being heard and understood.

Some guys understand this. Some guys don't. And some guys couldn't care less. The latter are the romeos and the borderlines - the narcissistic personality types who only care about themselves like that bigamist guy. And as I've wondered before, if your husband is a narcissist then he is obviously included. In that case, there is nothing you can do. He simply doesn't care to engage in conversation with you nor hear you complain about his thoughtlessness, most especially if he did it on purpose to upset you as I suspect he did.

But okay, let's give him the benefit of doubt and test him to help you find out for certain. If he's open to this test by engaging with you and making the necessary adjustments, then that means I'm wrong, and gladly so. If he's not open and refuses to participate, then that means I'm right and so very sorry to be right for your sake because I know it would have to be very painful for you.

The only things required in this test is that you and he do a bit of reading together for the sake of establishing understanding and improving your marital relationship. You have to schedule a couple hours in a morning or afternoon or evening to spend time alone together for 5 weeks in a row. I'm saying to set aside a couple hours one day a week for the next 5 weeks and make sure you're both free of commitment. No phones. No doorbells. No kids. No mom. No fishing. No dog walking. Nothing is to preempt, interfere with, or interrupt those 2 hours. Just you two and these articles. Take turns reading them aloud together (one article per week), discuss what they mean, and discuss how you each can apply the concepts in your relationship. Spend the week doing for each other whatever the article tells you to do. If any article includes a questionnaire, print out two of the questionnaires, one for each of you, fill them out, and then share them with each other. At the end of each week, discuss each other's progress, discuss each other's questionnaire, and then begin the next article.

You are to convey those instructions to him as I wrote them.

Here are the articles:
*The Policy Of Joint Agreement*
*The Most Important Emotional Needs*
*Honesty and Openness*
*How To Complain In Marriage*
*How To Make Your Wife Happy*

That site is a wealth of knowledge and helpful information. I like to call it the do-it-yourself marriage counseling website. Obviously, you're welcome to read as many articles as you like, but above are the five I recommend for the purpose of our experiment as they pertain to what concerns you most right now.

Keep us posted, Vicki. I hope this works to bring you closer and to help you both establish a safe environment for sharing your feelings and expectations. And most of all, I hope your husband is not a narcissistic arse.


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## VickiH1105 (Jul 5, 2020)

StarFires said:


> Vicki, I'm sorry I didn't see your question yesterday. Let me share a little story.
> 
> I was watching a documentary about a guy who had stolen millions of dollars from 4 or 5 (or 6 or 7 lol) women. He was married to several of them and after he was discovered, charged, and jailed, the women were asked to do an interview. Two of them had become good friends and were the ones who discovered each other and his scoundrel ways, so they did the interview together, while others were interviewed individually. As part of the interview and out of natural curiosity, the two women were asked if he was a good lover. They each burst out laughing in the negative at the exact same time. So, the interviewer asked then what it was that attracted them to him. They answered at the same time "He was a good listener."
> 
> ...


Thank you! I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your insight and advice. I feel like a total ***** if I say anything to him. Our boat needs a repair and suddenly it’s multiple things that probably aren’t necessary. So the finance conversation comes up again and how I want to save money and be involved financially for our future. He admits he makes the money and will make sure I have what I need but he’s who he is and doesn’t think he can change. So we’ll downsize so we can save money. Am I being too nosey? Am I being too controlling? Maybe it’s different than when I was married before and had children with the man. I don’t know the marriage rules at this point but I sure wish we were more of a team, but maybe he feels like he’s the only one contributing so he can do what he wants. Sorry for venting on you. I’m just stressed! I do LOVE your suggestion and I will present this to my hubby and see what happens! Fingers crossed! Thank you again!


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

I have a totally different take on this but need to know this first. When you docked at this club and there was later a party and he said you didn’t feel up to it, did you tell him when he left the boat that you didn’t feel up to going to the club?


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## VickiH1105 (Jul 5, 2020)

Bluesclues said:


> I have a totally different take on this but need to know this first. When you docked at this club and there was later a party and he said you didn’t feel up to it, did you tell him when he left the boat that you didn’t feel up to going to the club?


No. We had been at a fish fry earlier. His son was going fishing so he said he was going to take him down there and then he’d be back (10 minutes away). After he was gone an hour or so I texted him to see if everything was ok because it was getting late and I found out. I’m not sure why he said I wasn’t feeling well when it was his knees that were bothering him.


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