# The long road to nowhere



## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

I have been posting in the ladies lounge about being such a bad ass and pushing men away. Been on this site of some time without telling my story. I shall do so now. 

I was 21 years of age when I hooked up with my husband of 35. We married a year later. I took my marriage into the deepest part of my heart. Thru the first part of the marriage 
He was always doing things that were not appropriate to a married couple. Touching women, flirting, big porn user. He always expected me to be the wife that did anything and everything he wanted in the bedroom. And I did just that because I was young and thought it was my job to satisfy my husband. 

Kids come along and then he starts a consulting business which takes him from the home a lot. I work a full time job, run a home and raise two kids. This whole time he is always telling me I am never doing things right and was abusive. I never wanted my children to come from a broken home.

Years later I know my gut is telling me my world is about to split wide open. How wide was so vast for a human to take . I did all the snooping, setting up online account to view credit card charges, breaking into his phone. 

It all unfolded in a very short time. I couldn't see up from down. He was seeing several women and also hiring escorts while away on business. He did this for the last 6 yrs of our marriage.

He said he thought he would never get caught and we would stay married. Good lord he was going to places, being tired up, beat while he watched two women get off with each other ( I just puked in my mouth)

I thought I could try the R but the only thing I could do well was sit in the bath tub and cry for hours. It took me three months of being a walking zombie to know I could never forgive him. I filed for divorce and 60 days later I was single and moving my kids back to where they grew up.... I gave them the choice on what would make them happier.

Date people for long periods of time but always seem to get dumped with no explanation. 

I found out that my ex had given me an STD. After dealing with the cancer stuff I needed to have a hystorectomy at an early age.

Fast forward to 2012 and i did remarry....he was talkative kind and we enjoyed the same things. Got married and everything changed. He is a truck driver and decided not to come home anymore. He got sick when we first married and I was there for him. I asked him if he would go to counseling and it was a no. Said he would not change...also decided he no longer want to have sex. 

I couldn't live my life without the connection to my husband so I made the decision to divorce.

I know this is rambling but things in my mind still aren't always straight. I raised my two kids 24/7 because when the ex divorced he also divorced his kids. I became a protecting mother hen, didn't want my kids hurt anymore.

Now to today. I date here and there but seem to run men off because I say what is on my mind and really don't put up with crap. This has got to be me throwing up barriers to protect myself from hurt. I want to stop doing this kind of behavior but I am at a loss as to how to stop.

Years later I still feel the broken side of me most days. Maybe I am so used up there isn't anything good to give. There is much more to my story and just hit on some high lights. Thanks for reading and sorry I took up so much room. 

Tam


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

A very sad story indeed.

Have you considered some talk therapy? Alleviate and cope with some of all this? Unfortunately you picked a couple of losers and it has molded you.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

21 isn't a kid,, but still very young to be entering into an unhealthy relationship while 'programmed' to be a good, accomodating wife.

Out of that and into another one.

It's to your credit, Tamara, that you found the strength to leave,, but only after your boundaries reached breaking point.

You've spent 'learning years' with 2 weirdos. You've had no opportunity to learn, or experience of where 'normal person' boundaries are.

Having gotten yourself into two bad relationships - only partially understanding how - you're now overcompensating to avoid a third.

Among your baggage is your "vulnerable to exploitation" sign and a fear that it may still be visible to others.

Something like that. Easy to see the gist of it,, harder to figure out what to do about it.

SLOW dating progression,,, and learning that some vulnerability, applied at your choosing,, is a strength.

If you can manage, say, 10 dates with a guy and you like him,, you should consider having 'the talk'. A version of your OP will do,, and "Sometimes I'm oversensitive to criticism (anything else)"


If the guy runs, he wasn't worth keeping. Someone who cares will work with you and tolerate occasional overreactions and 'moods'. If you have a game plan they'll improve.

While you're single,, work on what your boundaries are. What you'll tolerate and what you won't. Your expectations. If you write lists it'll focus you.

Not much I can add to that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Tomara said:


> . . . Now to today. I date here and there but seem to run men off because I say what is on my mind and really don't put up with crap. This has got to be me throwing up barriers to protect myself from hurt. I want to stop doing this kind of behavior but I am at a loss as to how to stop.
> 
> Years later I still feel the broken side of me most days. Maybe I am so used up there isn't anything good to give. There is much more to my story and just hit on some high lights. Thanks for reading and sorry I took up so much room . . .


Dear Tomara,

Read your post and just wanted to offer you a word of hope and encouragement.

In my nearly 65 years of experience, one thing I've learned is that the future is always surprising. Sometimes the surprises are good ones, sometimes not, but at least it means things will change. For me, that's one of the things that makes life interesting.

I've also learned that we have a lot less control over what happens than I believed to be the case when I was young. The downside of this is that it can make one fearful if we let it (which we shouldn't). The upside is that it relieves us from guilt when things go wrong. This doesn't mean that we shouldn't man/woman up when we screw up. What it means is that we shouldn't get too down on ourselves when, despite our best efforts, things don't pan out the way we hoped they would.

As for the _'running men off'_ question, I suggest you do what I do when I do something I later wish I hadn't -- apologize. I've found that people will forgive a multitude of sins if we say we are sorry in a sincere manner and without offering excuses.

Hope this helps.


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

Please let me clear up one thing. I did not jump from one marriage into another. First divorce after 16 years of marriage ended in 2001. I did not remarry until 2012. Long time in between and the boundaries for each were so totally different. First one there were no boundaries until he broke me.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Whatever happened in between you've still ended up the way you are.

You've taken time out to leap on my misunderstanding as a criticism - and regraded "out of that and into another one" to "leap". My description lacks the immediacy of "leap". So,,

Oversensitive to critcism (now, even perceived criticism) still stands. As do overcompensating and vulnerable. Defensive.

You could've worked on a list or some other self-help thing in the time it took you to correct me. It reveals the depth of your problem and your priorities.

I'm not mocking you. I'm trying to help.

You're asking how you might change but you've just demonstrated a preference to defend who you are - against a non-attack.

Lil old me. Just some pixellated font in cyberspace and you try to scare me away like your suitors.

Getting where you want to be begins with you, Tamara. Nothing we say will help if you're gonna dig in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Flying_Dutchman said:


> Whatever happened in between you've still ended up the way you are.
> 
> You've taken time out to leap on my misunderstanding as a criticism - and regraded "out of that and into another one" to "leap". My description lacks the immediacy of "leap". So,,
> 
> ...


Sorry, but I just read her addition/clarification as solely that, an addition/clarification to add more detail and clarify issues that were touched on so as we may have a bigger, better, and clearer picture of her history. I didn't see or get the impression of any defensiveness in her response and yours is the only one that seems to be defensive. Not sure why you are so defensive of your statements, but I didn't see her as reacting to your statements negatively as they were criticisms, just that she felt the extra information may help in giving a better visual of the situation and help in the long run (just as if someone may at a later date add in that they too cheated on their spouse, after we have given information to them about dealing with their cheating spouse, just added information to the situation).


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

Not defensive FD and constructive criticism welcome. Attacks not really welcome.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Tomara said:


> Not defensive FD and constructive criticism welcome. Attacks not really welcome.


You'll get no attacks from me.

Criticism? Sure, if I think it'll help.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

Then in your post please point out the help you provided? Yes I am blonde but only bottle


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## RV9 (Sep 29, 2014)

I understand how you feel...


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Tomara said:


> Then in your post please point out the help you provided? Yes I am blonde but only bottle


It highlights very specifically the behaviours that you admit to pushing suitors away with,,, and asked for help as to how/why you're doing it.

You're interpreting it as an attack (asking for proof that it isn't) when it's nothing more than me providing what you've asked for.

How do you push them away? By choosing confrontation when you have more positive (endearing) options. Like,,,

"FD. You've misunderstood my dates."

"I'll try making a list."

Ignoring me altogether.

Thanking Carmen for her input.

Thanking Squeakr for the 'moral support'.

I'm not alone in observing that your strength looks more like aggression and masks some vulnerability,, and you continue to demonstrate it.

This is constructive criticism that highlights the heart of the problem you asked for help with,, not an attack.

I could do it more gently,, but you're ignoring the nicer people for the most part.

If you'd rather I left you alone, just ask me. I really don't want to upset you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Flying_Dutchman said:


> You'll get no attacks from me.
> 
> Criticism? Sure, if I think it'll help.
> 
> ...


Sorry FD, but I saw your second post as slightly attacking as well. All she did was add some extra information that didn't exist in the original and you seemed to take it personally and accused her of defending herself and not listening to the advise/ assessment given, but if those are not really correct, does she not have the right to make sure that they are corrected so the truth is out there??

The little bit about her trying to scare you away? Where did that come from? She said nothing negative about your Original Posting and only clarified where you might have made an error, and you seemed to lurch out at her about being defensive and attacking (and yes you used that word). I saw none of that, just and adding of facts to the situation to allow for a more through description of the history involved here.

You might want to go back and objectively read your second post and hers as well (like I said I think the firsts are fine, tough love and all), and see if you don't see how yours comes off as defensive and accusatory, which is what she was responding to with her attack comment.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I have to agree with FD. Even if it was slightly attacking as you describe, Sqeaker, there was zero questions from the OP for him to clarify anything, only a defensive posturing.

OP, even if you did view it as an attack, it says as much about you as it does him.

Please think about that.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

No apology necessary Squeakr.

You're calling it like you see it, as am I.

The devil is in the detail and there is method to my madness. Don't want to derail the thread when we can agree to disagree.

Thanks FarsideJ.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> I have to agree with FD. Even if it was slightly attacking as you describe, Sqeaker, there was zero questions from the OP for him to clarify anything, only a defensive posturing.
> 
> OP, even if you did view it as an attack, it says as much about you as it does him.
> 
> Please think about that.


Why would she want to question his post, as she originally just responded with clarifying information to the first post and was consequently attacked for that response. Then she she stated she was open to criticism and not attacks (as he used the word "attack" in the posting accusing her of trying to bully and send him away and then responds that he will not attack even though I see it as he already has). I must say I see that no where did she attack or try to send him away. Are posts getting edited before I return to the thread and read them??

So people are not allowed to defend themselves now without being accused of something negative?? I don't understand this line of thinking.

Maybe I am dense and the lack of sleep is getting to me.


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

I do understand that I come off as aggressive at times. I have asked how you over come the controlling behavior when you see how my relationships have screwed up my reactions to relationships. I have gotten some good advice and it is much appreciated.

Realize that I have left out details from my first marriage as they are to embarrassing to tell even in the cyber world.

I do ask that you tread lightly as this is "me" not some made up story. I think you can see why I feel attacked when it is the essence of who I am. I am not saying it's the best only just saying it's my life.

This has nothing to do with the marriages but another look at the guts of Tomara....raped at the age of 13 by a family member. Seems I let men abuse me huh?


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Tomara - I sincerely apologise if I've distressed you. I'd never intend to do that.

Rattle your cage at the risk of making you mad? Guilty as charged. If it has you focusing where you need to (IMO) I'll happily wear the bad guy hat.

I don't need any more of your past,,, it's present Tomara and her stumbling blocks to contentment I'd like to talk about.

I (and some others) can see the hurt and the vulnerability,, and understand why you can get defensive and 'present' as aggressive.


Tomara said:


> I do understand that I come off as aggressive at times. I have asked how you over come the controlling behavior when you see how my relationships have screwed up my reactions to relationships.


^^^ THAT, right there is EXACTLY what I was hoping to see in relation to what you're hoping to achieve. Acknowledging how your past has affected your behaviour and the way it negatively impacts your present.

When you can STAY there, you've already done the hard work,, the rest is tinkering with the details.

There's no repairing years of abuse overnight,, but present day contentment will go a long way. If you can stay in the acknowledgement zone we can improve your present day interactions. Your past won't go away but it'll weigh less if you're not scaring the guys away.

You could've kicked me out of your thread and I would've gone. You didn't,, and you've delivered a result instead.

You've endured enough from me today - so you get a pass for building your wall again after the bit I quoted.

I can't leave the last sentence. ONLY your abuser is resposible for your abuse. Not and never you. Cut that shìt out.

It takes GENUINE strength to acknowledge vulnerability. You've done it. Hang on to that.

Good job Tomara. I'm proud of you.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

Ah hell Flying_Dutchman you made me tear up. It's hard to stay on the soft side because it is an unsafe place.

I know I can not change the abuse in my life, it is what it is.

My job is to change me from an arms length person to a person that a normal man can appreciate. I do have some awesome accomplishment in my life and I am proud of them.

I am at at a press ibises in my life.


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

Sitting here thinking ...
All the men in my life save for my son have walked out with me holding to the responsibility.

I take care of two elderly parents that depend on me greatly. This holds me back.

Men only want one thing from me and it's not a nice dinner.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: The long road to nowhere*



Tomara said:


> Sitting here thinking ...
> All the men in my life save for my son have waked out with me holding to the responsibility.
> 
> I take care of two elderly parents that depend on me greatly. This holds me back.
> ...


This is where the picker needs work. 

There are plenty of men who want a real relationship with a lady. 

That nromally includes sex, but isn't anywhere near being all about sex. We bond emotionally through sex so it is a critical piece.

When my wife and I had drifted apart, she thought that about me too. It took me almost a year, but she understands differently too.

You have to believe in the goodness in people. If you only expect the worst in people, that is what you will find, whether it is actually there or not. 

And being bitter will only serve to push the good men away.

It probably feels scary, but you have to risk much to receive much.

Keep working on you. Keep working on softening your heart. You can do this!


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

I have had some good suggestions on reading material. Will head to Barns and Noble after work. Reading has never been a problem for me but writing things down has proven a challenge.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Tomara,
Consider also how and by what criteria you "choose" the men in your life. Perhaps there is an issue psychologically that is causing you to choose poorly and allow men of lesser character to get close to you. With what you have endured in your life this is not outside the realm of possibility. By discovering this issue, if it exists, you may find that your choices in men yield better long term results. There are good men out here but maybe you just aren't looking with the right eye. Just a possible avenue to look into.

I can tell you this however, without trust and risk there can not be reward. I feel you just need a more critical eye where men are involved before you make the emotional investment. Keeping some guys at arms length is not a bad thing. I wish the best for you.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Tomara said:


> Ah hell Flying_Dutchman you made me tear up. It's hard to stay on the soft side because it is an unsafe place.
> 
> I know I can not change the abuse in my life, it is what it is.
> 
> ...


You've updated just as I slunked off for a marathon sleep.

A serendipitous happenstance cuz I can't top the subsequent replies by FarsideJ and NoChoice,, or yourself, Tomara.

Everybody, while acknowledging your past, focused on your present and helping to repair present-day you.

Without that focus - in the right area - well meaning though these threads are, you end up with a 'shotgun approach' whereby you're trying to fix everything at once. The effect of that is confirmation of the BIG MESS that goes on inside your head,,, not knowing where to begin, how to unravel the entanglement of a million thoughts, and no light (hope) at the end of the tunnel.

A defensive wall is a good thing for everybody,,, when it's a wall. When it's a battlement, replete with merlons and crenels, archer slits and a portcullis, it needs a makeover.

This is a lil cheesy, but it's a point worth making. A lot of guys would run a mile from page 1 Tomara. Page 2 Tomara sounds like a sweetie by comparison that any guy would enjoy a date with. Yet, you haven't lost your armaments, you've just chosen not to fire them. No need to go to DEFCON 5 when DEFCON 3 will suffice.

Abuse, like bereavement and the pain(s) of infidelity, never goes away. 'Getting over it' is a misnomer. 'Coming to terms with it' is the more accurate key to recovery. Essentially, getting it out of your living room and sticking it in a box in the attic. It's still there, but not negatively impacting your day to day life.

When your present day life is going well, all the trauma boxes stay in the attic,, with their lids on.

So,, we can't fix your past but your present we can work on.

The tough bit lies inbetween Farside and NoChoice's replies. Are you escalating to DEFCON 5 inappropriately,, or is it appropriate because you're attracting the wrong types?

Farside is right. The chimp part of the male brain may be after 'one thing', but consciously most of us want to earn it the right way by entering into mutually reciprocal relationships that are rewarding to both parties, both emotionally and practically. Emotional and practical security helps lift all kinds of baggage to atticland.

While abuse is specific to individuals,, it's treated the same way as other traumas - improving present-day and working backwards as needs be. Often, by improving present-day, victims can shift baggage to their attics all on their own. Essentially and somewhat simplistically, happiness is a cure-all.

Hence why I've endevoured to steer you from past to present. I'm sorry about the means,, but the method is sound. I took fair rebuke(s) for 'bullying a victim' but, if I'd been kinder about it, my posts would've been lost in the aforementioned 'big mess'. If you don't get a focus - a starting point - you stay in that mess for eternity unless you get lucky. Relying on luck benefits few. With a game plan we create our own luck. Like Gary Player said, "The more I practice the luckier I get."

Again, I hate to distress anybody but if the result is finding you the foundations to build on, the tears were worth it.

Finally,,,



Tomara said:


> Reading has never been a problem for me but writing things down has proven a challenge.


If you're a reader, a GREAT book for understanding the 'big mess' of trauma is the (easy to remember) Trauma by Prof. Gordon Turnbull. It's not abuse-specific,, but it'll help you understand how the resulting emotional mess of trauma is created and unravelled.

Creating lists is like self-help CBT. They focus you in specific areas and by focusing you'd be surprised at how often you discover that you hold the key to your own solutions.

Your (anybody's) posts are like a list but tend to focus on the whole mess rather than the specifics. They (self-)help the OPs,, but listing can help more and you can do it privately. If you can't do it, you can't, but if you're prepared to try one, start with what you've almost done in your recent posts. "Five things I like about me. Five things about me I'd like to change." I/we don't need to see them,, do them for you.

Lists or no lists,, page 1 to page 2 Tomara looks like a leap in progress to me. Acknowledgement of current problems and focus on present-day solutions.

If you can hang in there, you're already marching towards victory. If page 1 to page 2 is an indication, you're doing great already.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

Just read your response. Mind is thinking and whirling a tad. But that's okay as I am just sitting at home watching property brothers. In the last few days I am finding myself withdrawing from all people. I have to understand what's making me tick and get tick off. 

It's sad to say but I just keep looking at the clock wishing it was later so I could just go to sleep and have a mind break.

I have made a conscious effort to cut ties with people that were not good for me. I hope that is a move forward.

Oh he!! I think will just go to sleep, there is always tomorrow as this isn't going away soon. Lol I tried to think of five things I like about myself and the only thing that popped into my head was I keep a clean house! 

😔


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

If the withdrawing has been going on for more than a few days,, could be an anxiety or depression. You'd struggle with a list too,, but you aren't a lister,, so perhaps indicative of nothing. A deliberate withdrawl from bad people is a good thing though.

Just the last couple days with your mind whirling,,, that might be me upsetting you. I hope not. I'd prefer to think you've been watching too many property programmes. Those and chef progs are enough to depress anybody. 

Try not to think on too much at once.

It's the weekend,, scrèw the time. Sleep or a good rest will do you good.

Keeping a clean house is a plus,, but what happens when a guy leaves a mug ring on your coffee table?

I jest.

Have a good sleep.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

I am not upset with postings. I am not depressed. I am trying to figure how you let ones guard down ...... Not a concept I understand. 

No one would leave a ring on the coffee table because I would sweetly place a coaster under the cup😊

Where does one find a good guy? Not on dating sites and not in church's. All my friends are married or are much younger than myself so that avenue is closed also. 

I realize I have to put myself out there to relearn how to treat the other sex.

😕 baby steps


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Ugg. The text of your post has gone AWOL between "cup" and "church's". I thought the reply-with-quote window might reveal it but, nope, it ends at "cup" in there. Anyway,,,

In the real world, we communicate 70%, give or take, by body language/facial expressions. Whatever makes you guarded won't necessarily result in vocal 'hostility'. Dunno if they'd help but I think you had brief examples of your dates in your previous thread but, again, no thread history on mobile. I can't find it.

I'm still struggling with - are you scaring 'nice' guys away or are you shutting down on poor choices?

Without the body lingo it's difficult to read people accurately but, like I said already, you lowered your defenses by choice between P1 and P2. It was a chalk and cheese change,, and you did it under provocation. It's significant, cuz it shows you can do it.

Since,, you seem to waver between near light-hearted and frustrated. The latter may be cuz I ain't grasping it, whatever it is. Importantly though, you've not got defensive again.

So, "figuring out how to let ones guard down", you're doing it already. Even fessed up to getting teary. That's a tough thing to do. Again,, acknowledging vulnerability is a strength. Similarly, your defensiveness is a strength when applied appropriately.

You've demonstrated that you can do everything you need (and want) to do in just a few messages.

Rome wasn't built in a day. I don't expect you to be 'feeling it' yet, but give yourself some credit. All of the above,, lowering defences, acknowledging vulnerability (etc) turned (forum) Tomara from arms-length "Whoa!" to dateable. You did that,, nobody did it for you.

Hence why I've been hammering the 'focus' theme. You don't need changing,, just tweaking. Making appropriate choices for the situation you're in.

You've done it here - less defensive, more open - you can do it anywhere. Now, you just keep doing it until it becomes natural rather than a struggle. THEN, you'll feel it. 

Acknowledge that you can and have done it, right here, and stay focused till it becomes easier. Baby steps. You can't change 'habitual' overnight.

There's no list of rules anyone can give you for the real world, cuz you have to improvise in the face of what you're confronted with. Focus. Be 'appropriate'. Be fun,, be defensive when it's appropriate.

For now, to give you some focus for that 'head stuff' that was keeping you awake, think about the dates you chased away and if and where you were 'appropriate'. Or, were they inappropriate twàts themselves who didn't deserve you?

If you know you have the ability to chase them away, you only need to apply it when you need it.

Forums are easier. You can backspace if you recognise an inappropriate response. You can't erase something you've said or a scowl.

Regardless. Just recognise that you've already demonstrated that you can do what you need to do. It won't be a swift change. While you practice there will be setbacks,, but setbacks are better than being there by default. Just give yourself some credit for what you've achieved so far. Just cuz you ain't feeling it yet doesn't mean you haven't made progress. You have and you are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

carmen ohio said:


> Dear Tomara,
> 
> In my nearly 65 years of experience, one thing I've learned is that the future is always surprising. Sometimes the surprises are good ones, sometimes not, but at least it means things will change. For me, that's one of the things that makes life interesting.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Thank you for posting. It helped me.


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

Ugg. The text of your post has gone AWOL between "cup" and "church's". I thought the reply-with-quote window might reveal it but, nope, it ends at "cup" in there. Anyway,,

Huh? What does 'cup' mean to you because I missed it. I know you have that definition in your head but it's lost on me.

Expression change ie... My face will be a biotch to fix. My whole life I have been told my thoughts show up in my expressions. As in the ladies lounge I said I need to wear a ski mask. I am honest and when I see bull it shows. AWOL really? I haven't run away, not been accounted for 
but I know I am a challenge!

Uggg.... I am trying to get it really I am.


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

Maybe I am a tad bit on the rough side but you spend 3 hours trying to assist your mother on how to Internet shop...I deserve a friggin metal!


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

I am hanging in there asking for assistance and not turning anything away. Yeah you can piss me off but dear lord my ears (eyes) are open. I am turning guys away that want one thing from me. They want sex only and I am not biting on being used anymore.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Tomara,
Calm down, I think dutchman meant that the words you typed between "cup" and "churchs" in your last post he cannot see. He tried to open the reply-with-quote window but to no avail they still did not show up.

dutchman here is the text.

"No one would leave a ring on the coffee table because I would sweetly place a coaster under the cup.

Where does one find a good guy? Not on dating sites and not in church's. All my friends are married or are much younger than myself so that avenue is closed also."


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

Thank u for clearing that up


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks, NoChoice.

That's exactly what's happened. Even funnier, that post must've landed on a PacMan in the mobile site cuz now this bit has gone as well "church's. All my friends are married or are much". The remainder is there,, till the PacMan chomps it. lol. You've given me the bit I hadn't seen. Cheers. 

Yeah, Tomara. It was your text that went AWOL. I didn't mean you.


I expect text misunderstandings. I expect you to get frustrated and pìssed off - with me and your perceived lack of progress - and that's without site glitches erasing text.

Men, huh? I only want one thing, too. To get you to a happier place.

So,, it's not so much that you're scaring away good guys,,, rather, you're sending bad ones packing. Nothing the matter with that,, but a big defensive wall would tend to make you see the worst.

Better selection, less defensive. Just a matter of degrees. You can adjust that, just like you've done here. At least the defensive part. The picking,,,

Nightclub, church or online,, all you get at the beginning is somebody's CV. All the good stuff with the bad omitted. Really nice guys and predators can be indistinguishable at the outset. Both will pamper you and say stuff you like to hear. Only one of them is sincere. The other gives himself away.

So long as you're not a hermit, you're seeing enough people to practice any amended strategy on. Meanwhile, while you get comfortable with it, online dating/chatting might be ideal for you. It enables you to assess bunches of guys at a safe distance.

You can, more often than not, tell those who just want the one thing from the genuinely interested. The former will push for a meet, won't sustain interest in conversation for long (unless it's 'sexy') and the little lies and inconsiderations will begin pretty soon.

Genuine, interested people will set online times/dates and stick to them. The others might set the 'dates' but will begin a pattern of not showing up and not letting you know they won't be showing up. When they do show, they'll be slow to respond with short messages cuz they're chatting to others.

I ALWAYS flag inconsideration, followed by apologies and excuses, in the 'honeymoon' stages,, cuz if you're not a priority then, you never will be. Genuinely interested people will sustain their interest and consideration,, and let you move at your own speed towards any meet-ups. The brighter ones might pick up on your sensitivity, like people here did, but if they like what they see behind the wall they'll hang in there and work with it/you.

For now, I have no better or more specific suggestion than to stay focused around your selection/rejection strategies and how you might amend them.

If you try to change too much at once, you'll get nowhere,,, and I'm not sure you need to change much anyway. Small tweaks can make a world of difference.

So long as you're moving two steps forward, the occasional step back isn't such a bad thing,,, and you HAVE moved forward already.

Dating is like a career. Problem identification and strategy. Jump the hurdles and reach the target. The more you practice the easier and more fun it becomes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

got to take some risks to find true love.

easier said than done after the life experiences you have had.

I think you have to convince yourself that not all men will take advantage of you. you now have an educated eye on what to look for. when you see the signs .......poor moral character, selfishness, lies, then its time to move on. eventually you will score big. 

keep on keeping on. good luck.


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

I updated my profile on one dating site to show a more softer, kind side of me. I am going to to watching closely what I say and what the other person says in return. Slow and steady


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

That's the way. 

Online, they're at a safe distance. Draw them in with kindness and, if they are 'wronguns', they'll give themselves away soon enough - pushing for meets, not showing up for chats, inconsiderate. Also watch out for excessive bìtching about ex's and "woe is me" tales wherein everything is somebody elses fault.

If you give 'em enough rope they will hang themselves. Meanwhile, you won't be dumping them prematurely, or unreasonably if they've given themselves away.

Chilly is right. For most of us, sex is pretty inadequate without other emotional bonding. Some guys struggle to express that and might head for your pants as a means of doing so. More time and distance will help you distinguish one from the other. You still have all your defences to call on when you need them.

So, yep, see how you get on with slow and steady. A little more attention to what you send and receive should produce improved results. Call on your cannons when you need them, rather than expecting potential dates to negotiate a creeping barrage.

Actually,, not a bad analogy to hang on to. Rarely successful in WWI,, and it ain't been working for you.

Creeping Barrage / Rolling Barrage - Profile
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

Started seeing man, sat back and didn't push. So after a month and a half he asks me not to see anyone else, fine with me. 

He doesn't want to see me unless it's on his time which is normally after 9:30 at night, never on Sunday, Monday, Thursday.

I explained to him last night in a very calm manner that I was not crazy about being the last one in line. I understand that he is busy. He told me I had been backing away from him which is not true. If he didn't wish to see me, I just made other plans with the girls. If he didn't call me until late I didn't worry, once again I would make plans and tell him he asked to late.

Then he told me I would never come before his grandson (where that came from I haven't a clue) I told him I shouldn't be on the same level as his grandson, maybe equal but not replace. He said his grandson would always be around but not maybe me.

Holly crap I beleive there's a rock I should crawl under

Makes no difference how I approach a relationship.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

He has odd days and times... Strange to me.


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

He works a full time job plus flips home so long hours is understandable. But dictating days I don't get. Plus normal people during the week are getting ready for bed at 9:30.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Tomara said:


> He works a full time job plus flips home so long hours is understandable. But dictating days I don't get. Plus normal people during the week are getting ready for bed at 9:30.


No offence, but you sound like a side-piece to him, like...there are likely other women he's with on those other days. After 9:30? So what it is, just a booty call?

This doesn't sound like a favorable relationship. Is he worth it?

I would re-open your profile and get back out there. Plenty of fish in the sea.


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

Tulsy you are right. He finally talked to me last night and the red flags were there. Time to move on and move forward.. No not a booty call lol.


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