# Chubby older fathers are more attractive to women and live longer



## EllisRedding

> Pudgy older fathers live longer, are more attractive to the opposite sex and are better at passing on their genes than their leaner counterparts, scientists have claimed.
> 
> Becoming fatter after fatherhood due to decreasing testosterone levels may not fit the “macho” ideal, but it actually prolongs lives and strengthens immune systems, according to Richard Bribiescas, professor of anthropology and deputy provost at Yale University.
> 
> There is evidence that these men are less likely to suffer from heart attacks and prostate cancer, while a study in 2008 found that men with high metabolisms were around 50 per cent more likely to die in a given year than those whose bodies burned up less energy at rest.
> 
> “Macho makes you sick,” said Prof Bribiescas. “The Hollywood image of the swaggering, dashing man dispatching bad guys and carrying the day conjures up a perception of indestructibility.
> 
> “While men are on average larger and physically stronger than women, men have a considerable weakness.
> 
> “We have a harder time fighting off infections and illness compared with women, and… men simply do not take care of themselves.
> 
> “This has a significant negative impact on the pace at which men age.”
> 
> Prof Bribiescas also argues that becoming more podgy makes dads more likely to invest their time in their children rather than looking for other women, while the increased levels of fat could make them more attractive to women.
> 
> “[One] effect of lower testosterone levels is loss of muscle mass and increases in fat mass,” Prof Bribiescas writes in his book How Men Age: What Evolution Reveals About Male Health and Mortality.
> 
> “This change in body composition not only causes men to shop for more comfortable trousers but also facilitates increased survivorship and, hypothetically, a hormonal milieu that would more effectively promote and support paternal investment.”
> 
> The research follows the "dad bod" trend, in which middle-aged men were praised for their doughy physiques.
> 
> However, a Cambridge University study last year found that women searching for a father for their children should choose long-distance runners, who traditionally have very low levels of fat, because they are more likely to have stronger sex drives and higher sperm counts.


Chubby older fathers are more attractive to women and live longer, scientists say

Lol, I love how one of the Professors sensationalizes the article by stating "Macho makes you sick". Also love how the authors are basically promoting lower testosterone levels as a positive.

Nowhere in the article does it state what is considered "pudgy" vs what is considered obese. Also, you could argue that some women may find this physique more attractive simply b/c it plays into their own insecurities (i.e. if your SO is in great shape you could potentially feel worse about your own physique.).


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## 225985

When chubby older father gets divorced at 45, let's see how women in the dating scene find the fat attractive. :slap:


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## MJJEAN

Stop the presses! Are they saying women may be attracted to mature men who are proven stable providers that are willing and able to care for children? I'm shocked!

Not to mention that once one falls into the older category, there are less single men who want a relationship available, women's biological clocks are ticking, and women may be more willing to overlook pudgy in order to have a mate and offspring. In other words, attractive to women doesn't necessarily mean physically/sexually. There are a lot of women out there who are willing to sacrifice sexual attraction to have companionship, stability, and a family.


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## 225985

MJJEAN said:


> Stop the presses! Are they saying women may be attracted to mature men who are proven stable providers that are willing and able to care for children? I'm shocked!


It's a stupid article with headline to get you to read to generate ad hits. A proper study would be to compare fit fathers who are stable providers and care for the kids with unfit ones. Then see which one women find more attractive.


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## lifeistooshort

The article never makes the claim that pudgy guys are more attractive to women beyond the title.

Probably because they're not. 

In the article it's not even discussed....unless I missed it.

All it claimed is that pudgy guys invest more time in their children, which even if true doesn't mean they're attractive.

Sounds like a crap article with a headline made up to get people to click.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MJJEAN

blueinbr said:


> When chubby older father gets divorced at 45, let's see how women in the dating scene find the fat attractive. :slap:


Duuuude, you have NO idea!

My dad lost my mom unexpectedly at 43. My dad worked 60-80 hours a week as an asphalt laborer and later as a foreman, yet had a truck tire around his middle. Dad also had my two younger siblings, then aged 13 and 11, to raise. He was always one of those guys who needs a woman and is helpless without one. After mom had been gone a year, I started making him go out hoping to help him find a new mate. I even offered to go with him as his wing man. 

I kid you not, the first night we went out to the bars he got 3 phone numbers from very attractive women in the 25-33 year old age range with absolutely zero assist from me. I was stunned! I thought it was a fluke, but it was like that every time we went out. By the end of summer, he'd been on countless dates and had started seriously seeing a woman 2 years older than me. They've been married 11 years now.

I literally don't know an involuntarily single chubby/pudgy father in his 40's or older. Not one.


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## EllisRedding

lifeistooshort said:


> The article never makes the claim that pudgy guys are more attractive to women beyond the title.
> 
> Probably because they're not.
> 
> In the article it's not even discussed....unless I missed it.
> 
> All it claimed is that pudgy guys invest more time in their children, which even if true doesn't mean they're attractive.
> 
> Sounds like a crap article with a headline made up to get people to click.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Here is one quote from the article



> Prof Bribiescas also argues that becoming more podgy makes dads more likely to invest their time in their children rather than looking for other women, *while the increased levels of fat could make them more attractive to women.*


So they are saying it "could".

I do agree it is a crap / click bait article


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## MJJEAN

blueinbr said:


> It's a stupid article with headline to get you to read to generate ad hits. A proper study would be to compare fit fathers who are stable providers and care for the kids with unfit ones. *Then see which one women find more attractive.*


That's easy if we make a few assumptions. If the women are looking for marriage and children or marriage and a partner willing to help raise existing children, the more attractive man will be whichever one is looking for the same.

*Physical/sexual attraction isn't the only kind of attraction used to determine whether or not to have a serious relationship leading to marriage.


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## EllisRedding

I also find it interesting the correlation they try to make, implying that "pudgy" men are more willing to invest in their children (pretty much saying pudgy men are more likely to be better fathers).


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## Married but Happy

Getting a mate and keeping a mate require different strategies - there is still a good deal of overlap. And yes, it's true that married men and men with children have lower testosterone levels, which lowers aggression and the desire to seek out new women, thus making them more likely to stick around and be good fathers while their children are young. The risk is that eventually their wife will want another child, and wanting the best genes, will dump mild Mister Milquetoast dad bod and seek the more wild "masculine" guy, hoping to eventually turn him into a supportive dad bod type, too! Some of the smarter guys may get back in shape a few years after the last kid, and smarter women may treasure the good, reliable man and father they already have over some fitter (sexier) unknown.


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## Mr. Nail

Well I for one won't minimize the effect of weight on erectile dysfunction.


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## MrsAldi

How much chubby we talking about here?  

What's wrong with a little weight? I don't mind. 









I bet this guy looks in the mirror more than me...I'll take some chub over vanity any day! 









Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## lifeistooshort

EllisRedding said:


> Here is one quote from the article
> 
> 
> 
> So they are saying it "could".
> 
> I do agree it is a crap / click bait article


Ok, I did miss that one. 

It's just based on nothing.....any of us can hypothesize anything we want. 

The author is probably pudgy and wants to make himself feel better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CharlieParker

Hmm, I better stay married, a beer gut I could arrange, children not so much.


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## MJJEAN

EllisRedding said:


> I also find it interesting the correlation they try to make, implying that "pudgy" men are more willing to invest in their children (pretty much saying pudgy men are more likely to be better fathers).


There is a theory that men are more protected against the bonding hormones released during sex because their higher testosterone levels block some of the effects. These are some of the same hormones released when bonding with a child.

If this theory is correct then it makes sense these men would be more bonded to their wives and children then men with higher testosterone levels who are more immune to the effects of bonding hormones. These guys may actually be more willing to invest in their children, and be considered better fathers, because of the effects of the bonding hormones they are now less immune to.


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## MJJEAN

@MrsAldi

I like these ones better!


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## EllisRedding

MJJEAN said:


> There is a theory that men are more protected against the bonding hormones released during sex because their higher testosterone levels block some of the effects. These are some of the same hormones released when bonding with a child.
> 
> If this theory is correct then it makes sense these men would be more bonded to their wives and children then men with higher testosterone levels who are more immune to the effects of bonding hormones. These guys may actually be more willing to invest in their children, and be considered better fathers, because of the effects of the bonding hormones they are now less immune to.


I do understand the theory behind it. I just think it is dangerous to basically imply that if two fathers are standing next to each other, one pudgy, the other in good shape, the pudgy one must be the better father willing to invest more time in his children.


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## TheTruthHurts

That study should have come with photos of the authors. What do YOU think they look like?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SunCMars

I am doomed. He must have used my biometrics and my story. 

Problem:
I will be back. Next year, or in another life.

He said nothing about Foxy Mate Attraction. Vixens love Alphas
................................................................................................................................................
Side note data trashing:

Which cohort dies at a higher rate in Wars, in Traffic accidents, in all other Accidents, are Murdered, or are in jail for Murder or other Felonies? Which group participates more in risky behavior?

The Lean and Mean Alphas and their wanna-bees'

Their chubbier fellows are more tame and do live longer. For this reason they pass on more of their genes. I agree with the chemical/hormonal aspects of behavior and its effect on longevity. 

.................................................................................................................................................

The Western World is becoming more chubby, both men and women. The Third World? No. And they are hungry, anxious and violent prone. The alpha males dominate those societies.

Can the West stand up to this threat?

Will we allow our Alpha Men to guard the Gates and the Wall. Will we let them do their job? What will be the "Rules of Engagement"? 

If we do allow MEN to be MEN then more of their cohort will die, leaving more [numerical and genetic] Jodies to guard the Nest. 

Rome Fell, when the coffers went empty, when available land became scarce [land offered to soldiers], when Alpha Romans were killed off, when corruption/debauchery killed the Nationalist Spirit, when lead got into their drinking, water, when available defenders were Mercenaries and when Third World Alpha Huns stormed the Gate. The Huns burned and razed everything. They also raped every women they could. They replenished the weakened genes with those of the Savage. Does this sound familiar, Dear Westerners, Mr and Mrs. America?

I fear, do you?


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## bandit.45

lifeistooshort said:


> The article never makes the claim that pudgy guys are more attractive to women beyond the title.
> 
> Probably because they're not.
> 
> In the article it's not even discussed....unless I missed it.
> 
> All it claimed is that pudgy guys invest more time in their children, which even if true doesn't mean they're attractive.
> 
> Sounds like a crap article with a headline made up to get people to click.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. Physical fitness and looks are what make a woman notice a man in the first place.


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## bandit.45

MJJEAN said:


> @MrsAldi
> 
> I like these ones better!


The red-haired guy, upper right, has my body. Except I have a bigger chest and shoulders. And I'm prettier.


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## MJJEAN

EllisRedding said:


> I do understand the theory behind it. I just think it is dangerous to basically imply that if two fathers are standing next to each other, one pudgy, the other in good shape, the pudgy one must be the better father willing to invest more time in his children.


Absolutely, because an individual man doesn't necessarily have more or less testosterone than his differently shaped counterpart. But, in general, they might be on to something. Might.


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## EllisRedding

MJJEAN said:


> @MrsAldi
> 
> I like these ones better!


Ironically, my physique was in line with these guys a good 6+ years ago. I carried my weight well, didn't have a massive gut or anything like that. I probably qualified more as strong/fat, most people would say I looked like a football player or an officer (Not Carl Winslow lol). The reality though, I was overweight, I was obese. Running around with the kids I would get out of breathe, my shins would hurt, my cholesterol was high, etc... One day I woke up, said enough was enough, and got my $hit together. Over the following 6+ months I dropped nearly 50lbs, got stronger and in better shape (over time I have slowly add back on some weight as the 50lbs dropped was a bit too much and not maintainable). At this point now I am much leaner and have a lot more muscle (sorry, I am not Men's Health magazine ready nor do I care to be) . Guess what, it also means I am able to do more with my kids physically. My bloodwork came back spotless so my odds of developing diabetes (which runs in my family) or other health issues has dropped. "Performance wise" with my W, there is a notable improvement as well.

Now, I am not trying to toot my own horn here. The problem, there are guys who will read this article, convince themselves they don't need to take care of their health b/c according to the article pudgy guys live longer, women love them more, and they are better dads. Given the growing issue in society with obesity and related health concerns. it just seems like the wrong approach to take.


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## MJJEAN

bandit.45 said:


> The red-haired guy, upper right, has my body. Except I have a bigger chest and shoulders. And I'm prettier.


Hahahaha, I told you in your thread that I have always been attracted to men built as you describe yourself!

I watched a Vice show called Gaycation where our host traveled to a Bear convention on the East coast. Nothing but large furry men as far as the camera could see. Best. Show. EVER! We need a hetero version of Bear conventions so, so, bad.

It's true that physical appearance is what first attracts us to a potential lover or mate, but that doesn't have to mean only "fit" men below a certain weight-height ratio are attractive.


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## MJJEAN

EllisRedding said:


> The problem, there are guys who will read this article, convince themselves they don't need to take care of their health b/c according to the article pudgy guys live longer, women love them more, and they are better dads. Given the growing issue in society with obesity and related health concerns. it just seems like the wrong approach to take.


There is a difference between strong-fat and just plain obese.

Beyond that, I suppose it's just like everything else. If a pudgy man decides to lose weight, some women are going to pass him up because he isn't the cuddly bear they want. If a fit man gains weight, some women are going to pass him up because he isn't the gym rat they want. A guy's best bet seems to be the man he wants to be and look for a woman who likes that.


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## EllisRedding

MJJEAN said:


> There is a difference between strong-fat and just plain obese.
> 
> *Beyond that, I suppose it's just like everything else. If a pudgy man decides to lose weight, some women are going to pass him up because he isn't the cuddly bear they want. If a fit man gains weight, some women are going to pass him up because he isn't the gym rat they want. A guy's best bet seems to be the man he wants to be and look for a woman who likes that.*


Not really, strong/fat still takes into account a decent amount of fat. Yeah, it is better then being fat/fat, but still fat nonetheless lol

Per the bolded though, at least in my case, we are talking about people in relationships, not a single guy looking for someone. Hopefully a wife wouldn't dump his H or SO b/c he got healthier and is no longer quite as cuddly :laugh:


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## Florida_rosbif

Well you know how it is, driving in a big nail is easier with a heavier hammer....


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## SunCMars

MJJEAN said:


> There is a difference between strong-fat and just plain obese.
> 
> Beyond that, I suppose it's just like everything else. If a pudgy man decides to lose weight, some women are going to pass him up because he isn't the cuddly bear they want. If a fit man gains weight, some women are going to pass him up because he isn't the gym rat they want. A guy's best bet seems to be the man he wants to be and look for a woman who likes that.


This is so true.

We are what we are.

Those that are at the edges [thinner section] of the Bell Curve have lots of room for improvement.

Those in the middle.....not so much. 

Oops, wait a minute! The post about living healthier [Ellis Reading] is also true. In today's ERA and today's Culture, our weights are climbing, our collective health is being damaged by poor life choices. 

It is a battle for getting the most out of life and getting the most life out of birth. SunCMars


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## MJJEAN

EllisRedding said:


> Not really, strong/fat still takes into account a decent amount of fat. Yeah, it is better then being fat/fat, but still fat nonetheless lol
> 
> Per the bolded though, at least in my case, we are talking about people in relationships, not a single guy looking for someone. *Hopefully a wife wouldn't dump his H or SO b/c he got healthier and is no longer quite as cuddly* :laugh:


I would. 

I am naturally not sexually attracted to men who are under a certain weight-height ratio and never have been. Since sex is a crucial part of marriage, I don't see myself staying married to a man I am no longer physically attracted to. 

In case anyone is wondering, this is why I don't get on the case of men who are no longer sexually attracted to their wives once they gain a certain amount of weight or people who only date certain races. Sexual attraction is involuntary. We all have a type and we cannot change that by conscious decision. Since marriage is a sexual relationship, I just don't see the point to marrying or staying married to a person who isn't sexually appealing regardless of the reason why.


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## EllisRedding

MJJEAN said:


> I would.
> 
> I am naturally not sexually attracted to men who are under a certain weight-height ratio and never have been. Since sex is a crucial part of marriage, I don't see myself staying married to a man I am no longer physically attracted to.
> 
> In case anyone is wondering, this is why I don't get on the case of men who are no longer sexually attracted to their wives once they gain a certain amount of weight or people who only date certain races. Sexual attraction is involuntary. We all have a type and we cannot change that by conscious decision. Since marriage is a sexual relationship, I just don't see the point to marrying or staying married to a person who isn't sexually appealing regardless of the reason why.


On the other end of the spectrum, if my W let herself go or got above a certain weight, it would kill my physical attraction to her, so I understand where you are coming from.


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## Married but Happy

EllisRedding said:


> I do understand the theory behind it. I just think it is dangerous to basically imply that if two fathers are standing next to each other, one pudgy, the other in good shape, the pudgy one must be the better father willing to invest more time in his children.


No, that comparison would not be fair - nor valid. Compare the father to his own body prior to having children. No doubt there would have to be adjustments for various obfuscating factors, and/or a similar control group that married but did not have children.


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## lucy999

MJJEAN said:


> I watched a Vice show called Gaycation where our host traveled to a Bear convention on the East coast. Nothing but large furry men as far as the camera could see. Best. Show. EVER! We need a hetero version of Bear conventions so, so, bad.


I think I love you. I watched the same show. I slipped off my couch .


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## MJJEAN

EllisRedding said:


> On the other end of the spectrum, if my W let herself go or got above a certain weight, it would kill my physical attraction to her, so I understand where you are coming from.


You now what the difference is? You tell your wife that she has gained a few too many pounds, you can at least say you're concerned for her health! I tell DH he has lost a few too many pounds, I'm an azzhole who is insecure and only wants to keep him down. 

Here's to us not ending up in those situations!



lucy999 said:


> I think I love you. I watched the same show. I slipped off my couch .


If that's a bully breed dog in your avatar, I think I love you, too!

DH once mentioned a lesbian couple we saw on the same network was kinda hot. I pointed out that they are lesbians and not interested in him. Ongoing mental fantasy: Destroyed! Wife-1 Husband-0

As I was watching the bears with perhaps some drool on my chin, DH thought to mention that all the men I was ogling were gay and I am most definitely not their type. Tie score!


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## Buddy400

MJJEAN said:


> There are a lot of women out there who are willing to sacrifice sexual attraction to have companionship, stability, and a family.


That's what so many men are afraid of.


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## EllisRedding

Buddy400 said:


> That's what so many men are afraid of.


Thanks for catching that Buddy, missed that post. So curious, the woman who sacrifices sexual attraction to have companionship, stability, and a family, couldn't that be viewed as a negative to the guy. I mean, at the onset, maybe he thinks she is really sexually attracted to him, but if it isn't genuine it will wear off, and then what is he left with?


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## MJJEAN

Buddy400 said:


> That's what so many men are afraid of.


To be fair, men do it, too.


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## MJJEAN

EllisRedding said:


> Thanks for catching that Buddy, missed that post. So curious, the woman who sacrifices sexual attraction to have companionship, stability, and a family, couldn't that be viewed as a negative to the guy. I mean, at the onset, maybe he thinks she is really sexually attracted to him, but if it isn't genuine it will wear off, and then what is he left with?


What is he left with? I'd guess a marriage to his "best friend" involving sex that is to some degree unenthusiastic if/when they do it at all.

This isn't really a gender issue so much as a societal one. We're told to we should find a mate and settle down, have kids, don't be an old maid, you don't want to die alone, etc. etc. We're told that sex isn't nearly as important as other things in marriage. We know the pool of decent available partners fluctuates with our target age and we know that fertility is finite. It's no surprise so many marry someone they aren't actually physically/chemically attracted to in order to have a life partner and be able to have children.


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## *Deidre*

lifeistooshort said:


> The article never makes the claim that pudgy guys are more attractive to women beyond the title.
> 
> Probably because they're not.
> 
> In the article it's not even discussed....unless I missed it.
> 
> All it claimed is that pudgy guys invest more time in their children, which even if true doesn't mean they're attractive.
> 
> Sounds like a crap article with a headline made up to get people to click.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


lol

I really would love to know why so many men want everyone to believe that women are more attracted to out of shape men? :scratchhead:


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## EllisRedding

MJJEAN said:


> What is he left with? I'd guess a marriage to his "best friend" involving sex that is to some degree unenthusiastic if/when they do it at all.
> 
> This isn't really a gender issue so much as a societal one. We're told to we should find a mate and settle down, have kids, don't be an old maid, you don't want to die alone, etc. etc. We're told that sex isn't nearly as important as other things in marriage. We know the pool of decent available partners fluctuates with our target age and we know that fertility is finite. It's no surprise so many marry someone they aren't actually physically/chemically attracted to in order to have a life partner and be able to have children.


Agreed, it is not gender specific and more a societal one of what is "expected". The best example, how long goes by when a couple is together before everyone starts asking them "When are you getting married". After they are married, how long before everyone starts asking them "When are you going to have kids". Also, from what I have seen, a guy who is single later in his life is treated in a more positive view then a similar female.

Still sucks nonetheless to make a commitment to someone believing they actually desire you when in fact that may not be the case.


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## EllisRedding

*Deidre* said:


> lol
> 
> I really would love to know why so many men want everyone to believe that women are more attracted to out of shape men? :scratchhead:


This was based from a professor of anthropology at Yale University, don't they have anything better to study :scratchhead: lol I don't like the fact that the author doesn't make any effort from what I can tell to quantify what "pudgy" is.

Who knows though, this is a quote from a related article:



> As for women finding pudgy men more attractive, this seems to be simply up to the woman's own taste. While Bribiescas' research may suggest that older pudgy “dad bods” are what the ladies are looking for, other studies suggest that some women go for leaner men, as it is a sign of a high metabolism and therefore good genes for potential offspring. In addition, according to The Telegraph, slim bodies are also often a sign of higher sex drives and higher sperm counts, two equally important qualities for reproduction.


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## MrsAldi

*Deidre* said:


> lol
> 
> I really would love to know why so many men want everyone to believe that women are more attracted to out of shape men? :scratchhead:


You could say the same about the "plus size" model women. 
Not that there is anything wrong with plus size, it's just that there is a push for men to accept that, and now there's a push to accept plus size men.

IMO, plus size is becoming the new normal in western countries, if anything it's all a marketing plot to sell lots of crap. All these "studies" are really business focused market research. 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## Buddy400

MrsAldi said:


> You could say the same about the "plus size" model women.
> Not that there is anything wrong with plus size, it's just that there is a push for men to accept that, and now there's a push to accept plus size men.


You're always very even-handed on gender issues.

It's almost like we're getting told that men are wrong to pay so much attention to women's appearance while, at the same time, getting told that women DO pay a lot of attention to men's appearance.

It's as if a previously identified social injustice is being rectified from both ends at the same time. It may be understandable but it sure is confusing.


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## Buddy400

EllisRedding said:


> Agreed, it is not gender specific and more a societal one of what is "expected". The best example, how long goes by when a couple is together before everyone starts asking them "When are you getting married". After they are married, how long before everyone starts asking them "When are you going to have kids". Also, from what I have seen, a guy who is single later in his life is treated in a more positive view then a similar female.
> 
> Still sucks nonetheless to make a commitment to someone believing they actually desire you when in fact that may not be the case.


I think it is gender specific.

Tell someone that you married them even though they weren't the sexiest person you'd known but because of all the other wonderful qualities they have and I'd guess more women would be okay with that then men.

Also, think men are more susceptible to experience a fall off in sexual activity with their spouse once the New Relationship Experience is over.


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## bandit.45

MrsAldi said:


> You could say the same about the "plus size" model women.
> Not that there is anything wrong with plus size, it's just that there is a push for men to accept that, and now there's a push to accept plus size men.
> 
> IMO, plus size is becoming the new normal in western countries, if anything it's all a marketing plot to sell lots of crap. All these "studies" are really business focused market research.
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


Not "plus size"....


....Fluffy.


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## bandit.45

Buddy400 said:


> I think it is gender specific.
> 
> Tell someone that you married them even though they weren't the sexiest person you'd known but because of all the other wonderful qualities they have and I'd guess more women would be okay with that then men.
> 
> Also, think men are more susceptible to experience a fall off in sexual activity with their spouse once the New Relationship Experience is over.


I think it is person specific. I have a friend back in Arizona who has a fetish for big women. BIG... 

He is skinny and weighs about 140 pounds, His wife weighs about 400. And what is really fun is he likes her to parade around the house in short-shorts. So every time I would go over to their house I was treated to the sight of her fat-waterfall legs. The fat kind of cascaded down her legs like stalactites. Yum....


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## Rockclimber

Be both!
When I am cutting like I am right now I am extremely lean but still bench press 315
When I am bulking I have around 15 pounds of extra fat but can lift heavier and that is the only way to grow in size, a long bulking cycle.

Don't stay the same, change yourself from time to time and keep it fun. My wife liked me more when I was bulking but I like feeling healthier better. When we were first married we were both extreme gym rats, she could outlift most of the men in the gym! Women that lift have higher levels of testosterone also!


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## *Deidre*

MrsAldi said:


> You could say the same about the "plus size" model women.
> Not that there is anything wrong with plus size, it's just that there is a push for men to accept that, and now there's a push to accept plus size men.
> 
> IMO, plus size is becoming the new normal in western countries, if anything it's all a marketing plot to sell lots of crap. All these "studies" are really business focused market research.
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


But on average, most men don't accept it. The difference is, articles like the one in the OP, don't have women saying that men are attracted to plus sized women, more than not. But, women are constantly being told by men, that what we really are attracted to, are out of shape guys with big bank accounts. No, we're not. Trump is a wealthy man, but no way would I be sexually attracted to him. I think that some men base all of their notions on all women, on the few gold diggers they've met in their lifetimes, or have read about. All women aren't gold diggers, who will marry a furry troll if need be, to get their bills paid. I can't even imagine having such a gross mindset.


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## EllisRedding

*Deidre* said:


> But on average, most men don't accept it.


Says who? I know quite a few guys who prefer women with curves vs. those "model" type gals prancing around on the runway. Once again though, it comes down to individual preferences.


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## EllisRedding




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## *Deidre*

EllisRedding said:


> Says who? I know quite a few guys who prefer women with curves vs. those "model" type gals prancing around on the runway. Once again though, it comes down to individual preferences.


I said most, not all. But, the article in the OP, ''women'' pretty much sounds like the author is suggesting that most women like the same thing. Maybe that's it. Maybe that's what bothers me more is that it gets old when men tell women what they are attracted to, as if they know all women. If the article stated ''women like hot guys who have no money,'' it would be just as inaccurate. 0


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## EllisRedding

*Deidre* said:


> *I said most, not all.* But, the article in the OP, ''women'' pretty much sounds like the author is suggesting that most women like the same thing. Maybe that's it. Maybe that's what bothers me more is that it gets old when men tell women what they are attracted to, as if they know all women. If the article stated ''women like hot guys who have no money,'' it would be just as inaccurate. 0


"Most" implies that a majority of men don't accept. I could argue, here we go again, another woman telling men what type of women they are attracted to, as if you know all men :wink2:

Personally I think the article is garbage, so I am on board with you on that :grin2:


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## lifeistooshort

I don't totally understand this fat acceptance movement. What is it that we're supposed to accept?

If it means fat people shouldn't face bullying, shaming, or discrimination then I agree. If it means people must be attracted to fat people that's ridiculous; people are attracted to what they're attracted to, and as long as it's not illegal and they can find a consenting adult to participate then whatever.

But I agree with Deirdre in that generally women know men are visual and we don't have women claiming that men are attracted to unfit women; maybe some men are but women get the message that men in general prefer us to be more fit. I do think that men are much more accepting of various body types then us women think and that we're much harder on ourselves than men. We see that all the time here.....guy comes on claiming his wife is hot and he wants her but she's insecure about her body. Definitely a disconnect there.

Men, otoh, seem more likely to think women aren't as visual; that is of course ridiculous. Women are very visual, it's just that for many reasons, many of them societal and historical, women will accept men they find less attractive for security.

I think to some extent that's ok in that you don't have to marry the hottest person you've been with, but you do need to find them attractive and be attracted to them. This is where I think men are actually more honest; men are raised to think it's ok to look for beauty and nobody would look at a guy twice if he dismissed a good woman because he didn't find her attractive. People understand that men want attractive.

Women, otoh, can face enormous pressure from family and society to find an accomplished man regardless of how attracted to him she is. For many women, if they went home to their family and said that a rich guy/doctor/whatever wanted to marry them but they didn't find him attractive the family's response would often be to slap her upside the head (not literally of course). Women face a great deal of pressure to find a guy of some means; not necessarily wealthy but one who provides. Women have had it preached to them that how attracted to the guy they are is irrelevant and since good girls didn't like sex anyway it didn't matter. Historically men were ok with that because marriage was a business deal and women weren't expected to enjoy it, only to provide it.

But of course times have changes and most men want a woman who enjoys sex with them, and I think that's healthy.

Many men are not willing or able to tell when a woman is genuinely attracted to them and base their opinion on whether she'll have sex with him; in fairness it can be hard to tell. This creates a scenario where guy thinks a woman is attracted to him, they get married, but since woman really wasn't sex starts to slow down. Poor guy doesn't see it coming and woman is probably unhappy too because she's not attracted to him but feels pressured for sex.

Women really need to be encouraged to consider attraction when choosing a partner. I think as more women become self sufficient they will be free to consider attraction and all will benefit from it.

It actually is quite possible to find a guy you're genuinely attracted to that's not a bum. Sexually desirable and reasonably successful are not mutually exclusive.

I don't think women in general are more attracted to "dad bods"; they may be attracted to a particular man who happens to have a dad bod for other reasons, just as men can still be attracted to their wife and mother of their children even though she's gained more weight than they prefer. But in general I think people should make an effort to keep themselves in decent shape, or at least don't demand what you can't provide.


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## lifeistooshort

This article has me thinking of Fat Bast4rd.


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## MrsAldi

*Deidre* said:


> But on average, most men don't accept it.


Again, it's marketing, Hollywood and porn etc etc

These "studies" are not fully executed correctly, there focus groups who have given the answers the corporate world wants to hear. 
They take the information necessary for them. 

A real focus group/survey of normal people would come up with vast differences between actual attractions, we are all not attracted to the same size, looks etc

Back in the Renaissance, larger pale, especially ladies were considered beautiful. 
There's no way this lady would be a model today, but back then, someone found her good enough to paint. Beauty changes with the times...










Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## lifeistooshort

MrsAldi said:


> Again, it's marketing, Hollywood and porn etc etc
> 
> These "studies" are not fully executed correctly, there focus groups who have given the answers the corporate world wants to hear.
> They take the information necessary for them.
> 
> A real focus group/survey of normal people would come up with vast differences between actual attractions, we are all not attracted to the same size, looks etc
> 
> Back in the Renaissance, larger pale, especially ladies were considered beautiful.
> There's no way this lady would be a model today, but back then, someone found her good enough to paint. Beauty changes with the times...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


Beauty standards are often based on what's not so easy to attain as it's considered exotic.

In the Renaissance one needed to be wealthy to have enough food to be a little round and to be pale thanks to not having to work outside.

Today crappy food is abundant and many people are heavy so thin and fit is in.

Many African cultures where food is not plentiful still sequester a bride before her wedding a feed her a lot of rich food because if she's too thin on her wedding day her husband will not be impressed with her child bearing potential.

This article that shows how standards have changed over the past hundred year in the US is quite interesting:
It's Amazing How Much The 'Perfect Body' Has Changed In 100 Years | Huffington Post


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## *Deidre*

EllisRedding said:


> "Most" implies that a majority of men don't accept. I could argue, here we go again, another woman telling men what type of women they are attracted to, as if you know all men :wink2:


I'm not speaking for men. You're the one that posted the OP. 



> Personally I think the article is garbage, so I am on board with you on that :grin2:


Okay.


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## *Deidre*

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't totally understand this fat acceptance movement. What is it that we're supposed to accept?
> 
> If it means fat people shouldn't face bullying, shaming, or discrimination then I agree. If it means people must be attracted to fat people that's ridiculous; people are attracted to what they're attracted to, and as long as it's not illegal and they can find a consenting adult to participate then whatever.
> 
> But I agree with Deirdre in that generally women know men are visual and we don't have women claiming that men are attracted to unfit women; maybe some men are but women get the message that men in general prefer us to be more fit. I do think that men are much more accepting of various body types then us women think and that we're much harder on ourselves than men. We see that all the time here.....guy comes on claiming his wife is hot and he wants her but she's insecure about her body. Definitely a disconnect there.
> 
> Men, otoh, seem more likely to think women aren't as visual; that is of course ridiculous. Women are very visual, it's just that for many reasons, many of them societal and historical, women will accept men they find less attractive for security.
> 
> I think to some extent that's ok in that you don't have to marry the hottest person you've been with, but you do need to find them attractive and be attracted to them. This is where I think men are actually more honest; men are raised to think it's ok to look for beauty and nobody would look at a guy twice if he dismissed a good woman because he didn't find her attractive. People understand that men want attractive.
> 
> Women, otoh, can face enormous pressure from family and society to find an accomplished man regardless of how attracted to him she is. For many women, if they went home to their family and said that a rich guy/doctor/whatever wanted to marry them but they didn't find him attractive the family's response would often be to slap her upside the head (not literally of course). Women face a great deal of pressure to find a guy of some means; not necessarily wealthy but one who provides. Women have had it preached to them that how attracted to the guy they are is irrelevant and since good girls didn't like sex anyway it didn't matter. Historically men were ok with that because marriage was a business deal and women weren't expected to enjoy it, only to provide it.
> 
> But of course times have changes and most men want a woman who enjoys sex with them, and I think that's healthy.
> 
> Many men are not willing or able to tell when a woman is genuinely attracted to them and base their opinion on whether she'll have sex with him; in fairness it can be hard to tell. This creates a scenario where guy thinks a woman is attracted to him, they get married, but since woman really wasn't sex starts to slow down. Poor guy doesn't see it coming and woman is probably unhappy too because she's not attracted to him but feels pressured for sex.
> 
> Women really need to be encouraged to consider attraction when choosing a partner. I think as more women become self sufficient they will be free to consider attraction and all will benefit from it.
> 
> It actually is quite possible to find a guy you're genuinely attracted to that's not a bum. Sexually desirable and reasonably successful are not mutually exclusive.
> 
> I don't think women in general are more attracted to "dad bods"; they may be attracted to a particular man who happens to have a dad bod for other reasons, just as men can still be attracted to their wife and mother of their children even though she's gained more weight than they prefer. But in general I think people should make an effort to keep themselves in decent shape, or at least don't demand what you can't provide.


I honestly can't help but wonder when reading your post here (which is a great post) if that is honestly what is the problem within all of these LD/HD marriages. There are a lot of threads on here about HD/LD couples, and granted there could be physical or medical reasons behind some of the stories, but something tells me it is an attraction/chemistry problem.


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## Palodyne

I'm 49, 6'3, 290lbs. So I am a large guy. Are women attracted to me? Couldn't care less. I also didn't give a damn when I was 30 years old and 6'3, 200lbs. I do tend to find women that are heavy, with curves as some would say, more attractive. But, of course everyone has their own tastes.

The study that most interested me, is that people who are overweight but maintain normal levels of blood pressure, sugar, triglycerides, and cholesterol, live longer than people that are thin but have to manage these levels. And even though I am heavy, my numbers are normal. That said, I took my sisters 2 boys and raised them like they were my own, until she took them, left her husband, and ran off with another man. So was I a good "dad" because I was overweight, or because I was a good person? I highly doubt my weight made me a good provider for my two boys.

I don't know what to make of this study. But being heavy doesn't make you better than a thinner man. It all has to do with your character. You can be "pudgy" and still be a right bastard.


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## anonmd

lifeistooshort said:


> Beauty standards are often based on what's not so easy to attain as it's considered exotic.
> 
> In the Renaissance one needed to be wealthy to have enough food to be a little round and to be pale thanks to not having to work outside.
> 
> Today crappy food is abundant and many people are heavy so thin and fit is in.
> 
> Many African cultures where food is not plentiful still sequester a bride before her wedding a feed her a lot of rich food because if she's too thin on her wedding day her husband will not be impressed with her child bearing potential.
> 
> This article that shows how standards have changed over the past hundred year in the US is quite interesting:
> It's Amazing How Much The 'Perfect Body' Has Changed In 100 Years | Huffington Post


A boob jpb would do wonders here :smile2:


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## TheTruthHurts

Wow a lot of generalizations here. I don't buy into the notion that media are to blame for this or that.

Frankly I believe our character and upbringing has a lot to do with our attractions. I grew up in a traditional white upper middle class neighborhood so was attracted to the cute, white girls. Everyone was thin back then (1970's) so weight wasn't an issue. Most everyone except body builders were pretty flabby by today's standards. But curvy and soft was attractive in a woman, and more or less lean was the standard guy (thin I suppose by today's standards).

I never considered girls of other races attractive or not - they weren't a consideration.

In college my friends dated all kinds of very hot girls of different races; other guys dated skanky girls; I randomly got lucky and met a girl that was among my many types.

I've aged and experienced many cultures and races and have seen what others like and it varies considerably. This cute Latina friend wore clothes way to tight IMO and I always thought she looked pudgy and overweight when I knew she wasn't. Took me a long time to realize the Hispanic guys really were into the curvy girls in very tight clothes. So it really varies by age, race, culture, upbringing, and willingness to be open to these things.

That's why I cited character. I think if you're open minded, meet new people with respect, listen to what they like, you might like it too.

I could be very happy with a curvy woman, thin but not too thin, soft but not too fat, hard body, etc. Frankly, a confident, 6'3" large woman with a nice face, who felt sexy could probably float my boat.

I think the media amplifies who we are creating a cartoonish, but not completely inaccurate, version of us. Kim Kardashian's huge a55 for example - somebody must dig that IDK.


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## TheTruthHurts

Ok I list my train of thought watching cubbies score in the 10th!!!! Another run!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EllisRedding

*Deidre* said:


> I'm not speaking for men. You're the one that posted the OP.
> .


:scratchhead: not sure what one has to do with the other and missed my point, but no need to go back and forth over

Separately, I was thinking about what @blueinbr said earlier. I think that (whether male or female) if you keep yourself in good shape and don't just let yourself become pudgy/obese/overweight, you at least increase your odds of having more people attracted to you (given all other variables are constant). Now, I am not saying that means you will find "the one", just that you will likely have a larger pool to chose from.


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## BetrayedDad




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## Married but Happy

Pudgy man bods vs. pudgy mom bods. We take what we can get, or keep - that's the bottom line, isn't it? As we age, the percentage of fit, attractive people declines markedly - and many of them have other flaws to weigh in the equation of attraction. There are always tradeoffs.


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## TheTruthHurts

Married but Happy said:


> Pudgy man bods vs. pudgy mom bods. We take what we can get, or keep - that's the bottom line, isn't it? As we age, the percentage of fit, attractive people declines markedly - and many of them have other flaws to weigh in the equation of attraction. There are always tradeoffs.




Dude I'm like a fine wine. Whatcha' talkin' bout?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Married but Happy

TheTruthHurts said:


> Dude I'm like a fine wine. Whatcha' talkin' bout?


Corked? Or screw top?


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## EllisRedding

Married but Happy said:


> Corked? Or screw top?


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## bandit.45

*Deidre* said:


> I said most, not all. But, the article in the OP, ''women'' pretty much sounds like the author is suggesting that most women like the same thing. Maybe that's it. Maybe that's what bothers me more is that it gets old when men tell women what they are attracted to, as if they know all women. If the article stated ''women like hot guys who have no money,'' it would be just as inaccurate. 0


Some women like to cheat with hot guys with no money, as long as they have dependable fuddy-duddy at home to be there when they are through.


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## notmyrealname4

I'm most attracted to concentration-camp-plus-20-pounds; so this dad-bod thing doesn't reach me.


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## EllisRedding

notmyrealname4 said:


> I'm most attracted to concentration-camp-plus-20-pounds; so this dad-bod thing doesn't reach me.


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## soccermom2three

bandit.45 said:


> Some women like to cheat with hot guys with no money, as long as they have dependable fuddy-duddy at home to be there when they are through.


What's weird is my SIL cheated with men that are not anywhere as good looking or in shape as my BIL and my BIL makes like more than double or triple than they do. She's just a crazy person.


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## bandit.45

soccermom2three said:


> What's weird is my SIL cheated with men that are not anywhere as good looking or in shape as my BIL and my BIL makes like more than double or triple than they do. She's just a crazy person.


I was being facetious...


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## bandit.45

EllisRedding said:


>


I'd like to kick Seth Rogan's ass.

I'd like to get him in an alley and just beat the living fvck out of him for several minutes. Am I the only one who feels this way? 

The guy is the king of pvssy dooshbags, and I cannot believe a no-talent idiot like him gets the amount of acting work he gets. No talent. None. Keanu Reeves is like deNiro compared to Rogan.


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## notmyrealname4

EllisRedding said:


>




Nope, not reached. Sorry!


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## EllisRedding

notmyrealname4 said:


> Nope, not reached. Sorry!


You say that now, but he will be seeing you in your dreams >


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## notmyrealname4

soccermom2three said:


> What's weird is my SIL cheated with men that are not anywhere as good looking or in shape as my BIL and my BIL makes like more than double or triple than they do. She's just a crazy person.




Yeah, not everything makes sense.

Sometimes people "want a piece of rough" or, "slumming".

IOW, being with people they don't really respect can be very sexually exciting. If you don't respect the person, you don't have to care about them; and you can behave anyway you want.


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## EllisRedding

bandit.45 said:


> Keanu Reeves is like deNiro compared to Rogan.


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## notmyrealname4

EllisRedding said:


> You say that now, but he will be seeing you in your *nightmares* >



FIFY


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## EllisRedding

notmyrealname4 said:


> FIFY


Either way, you will be seeing him tonight. good luck with that >


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## *Deidre*

bandit.45 said:


> Some women like to cheat with hot guys with no money, as long as they have dependable fuddy-duddy at home to be there when they are through.


That's sad, but true. For some women.


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## bandit.45

*Deidre* said:


> That's sad, but true. For some women.


Some. Not most.


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## *Deidre*

soccermom2three said:


> What's weird is my SIL cheated with men that are not anywhere as good looking or in shape as my BIL and my BIL makes like more than double or triple than they do. She's just a crazy person.


I wonder if some people cheat with people who are not as good looking as their spouses, or make as much money, etc...and are just kind of ''bad'' people because they don't feel that they deserve a good person. Like that is why they aim low with their cheating partners? Just guessing, but I've read threads on here that seem to illustrate this.


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## bandit.45

I think there are just sleazy, broken, bad people among both sexes who just want what they want and don't give a crap about who they hurt to get it.


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## soccermom2three

*Deidre* said:


> I wonder if some people cheat with people who are not as good looking as their spouses, or make as much money, etc...and are just kind of ''bad'' people because they don't feel that they deserve a good person. Like that is why they aim low with their cheating partners? Just guessing, but I've read threads on here that seem to illustrate this.


In my SIL's case, she is a total control freak. She couldn't control my BIL. She can control guys that make half her salary though. Plus she's narcissist, (IMO). My niece's therapist asked my BIL if SIL's family has a history of mental illness.


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## EllisRedding

soccermom2three said:


> In my SIL's case, she is a total control freak. She couldn't control my BIL. She can control guys that make half her salary though. Plus she's narcissist, (IMO). My niece's therapist asked my BIL if SIL's family has a history of mental illness.


Control plus the thrill/rush of doing something you know you shouldn't be doing. There was a discussion (don't recall if it was here or elsewhere) that children were more likely to cheat if their parents cheated, so your SIL's behavior could very much come from her family.


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## Married but Happy

soccermom2three said:


> What's weird is my SIL cheated with men that are not anywhere as good looking or in shape as my BIL and my BIL makes like more than double or triple than they do. She's just a crazy person.


Many people don't cheat because of looks or income. They are attracted to someone because that person pays attention to them, treats them nicely, or improves their self-esteem, particularly if they've been neglected by their spouse.


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## jld

Married but Happy said:


> Many people don't cheat because of looks or income. They are attracted to someone because that person pays attention to them, treats them nicely, or improves their self-esteem, particularly if they've been neglected by their spouse.


I have read this many times.

So many people just want a little love, a little comfort, in life.


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## alexm

*Deidre* said:


> I wonder if some people cheat with people who are not as good looking as their spouses, or make as much money, etc...and are just kind of ''bad'' people because they don't feel that they deserve a good person. Like that is why they aim low with their cheating partners? Just guessing, but I've read threads on here that seem to illustrate this.


I'm with this.

I think the majority of people cheat because it boosts their self-esteem/they have low self-esteem to begin with/their partner has lowered their self-esteem - that sort of thing. Truly confident people don't need to seek validation from others while in a relationship. If their partner does not treat them the way they deserve, they leave, rather than cheat - BECAUSE they have the confidence and self-esteem (not to mention self-respect) to do so. "I don't need you, see you later" as opposed to "You don't make me feel good about myself, but I'll stay with you because I need somebody around". Guess which one is susceptible to cheating?

People who have low self-esteem tend to gravitate towards people who have even less, more often than not, because it makes them feel superior, even if subconsciously. When somebody has issues that are worse than yours, it'll make you feel better about yourself.


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## MJJEAN

*Deidre* said:


> I wonder if some people cheat with people who are not as good looking as their spouses, or make as much money, etc...and are just kind of ''bad'' people because they don't feel that they deserve a good person. Like that is why they aim low with their cheating partners? Just guessing, but I've read threads on here that seem to illustrate this.


Sometimes I think the forums folk try looking down a well for an answer they could find at the bottom of a puddle.

Do not underestimate the power of chemical/physical attraction and charisma. 

I know I am not representative of every WS, but I didn't care how much money an AP made or if he was a super nice guy or even if he was conventionally handsome. I wasn't looking for a lifemate. I was looking for a few screaming orgasms.


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