# Richard Cooper



## RebuildingMe

Do any of you know him or watch any of his videos (entrepreneurs in cars)? I think he’s spot on with so many things when it comes to women, men, gender differences and relationships. As with anyone else, I don’t always agree 100%, but I like what he says and how he says it.


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## The Captain

I've watched a couple of his videos. I've recently been turned on to Rollo Tomassi, and him and Richard are buddies. Rollo even wrote the forward in Richard's book. I have Rollo's book 'The Rational Male' shipping to me tomorrow. I've been listening to his Red Pill 101 podcast too. This is all "red pill / manosphere" stuff and it's very interesting. Like you, I'm not 100% into it, but I think it is a huge benefit for men to at least learn some of it. Some women have read it too, and their reaction is often "Everything in that book is true - but you shouldn't know any of it!"


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## RebuildingMe

I have rollo’s book and have read it. Richard did an interview with rollo for his channel. I just bought another copy of rollo’s book and gave it as a Xmas present to my 20 year old daughter’s new boyfriend. I wish I knew about this stuff 30 years ago. I wouldn’t have made the massive mistakes I’ve made. I learn and pay it forward. My 9 year old son will hear the things my dad failed to teach me about relationships.


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## Enigma32

Not familiar with Cooper either but I do agree with a lot of the red pill philosophy. IMO, the dating rules in Western cultures favor females so much of the standard advice given to men is just counterproductive for them.


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## RebuildingMe

Some of his teachings and red flags apply to women also. I think that’s why he has a pretty strong female following, for red pill doctrine.


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## ccpowerslave

RebuildingMe said:


> I have rollo’s book and have read it. Richard did an interview with rollo for his channel. I just bought another copy of rollo’s book and gave it as a Xmas present to my 20 year old daughter’s new boyfriend.


😂 will be interesting when he gets to the plate spinning theory. You must really like the kid.

I agree that some of the material should be basic instruction for young men. I often wondered why my father didn’t give better advice. I just tried to copy him in many ways which turned out to be stupid.

I think the theory is valuable for those able to practice it.


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## manowar

ccpowerslave said:


> I often wondered why my father didn’t give better advice.


 because he didnt know any better. your dad was probably the woman is the prize kinda guy. happy wife happy life.



RebuildingMe said:


> the things my dad failed to teach me about relationships.


your dad lived under the old rules of the 1950s. the rules changed dramatically in the 1980s. 

if you understand the basic red pill principles and female nature you cant be taken for the nice guy chump ride. Once you see the logic of these basic truths and how it applied to your own life, you cant you cant unlearn it.


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## Luminous

Richard Cooper says a few interesting things, although he comes across as a bit full of himself, and zero personality ironically. 

He has criticised other 'content creators' in the past, which has damaged his credibility (in my eyes), and tends to lean towards the materialistic side of things, as well as dating, to validate one's self.

That and he charges like a wounded bull for 'coaching'. Young guys will pay the exorbitant fees he asks for because they are desperate. There are many other creators out there who not only do it for free, but also have a more philosophical approach, which is what can help those in need navigate life a bit better, and to think 'outside the box'


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## RebuildingMe

Luminous said:


> Richard Cooper says a few interesting things, although he comes across as a bit full of himself, and zero personality ironically.
> 
> He has criticised other 'content creators' in the past, which has damaged his credibility (in my eyes), and tends to lean towards the materialistic side of things, as well as dating, to validate one's self.
> 
> That and he charges like a wounded bull for 'coaching'. Young guys will pay the exorbitant fees he asks for because they are desperate. There are many other creators out there who not only do it for free, but also have a more philosophical approach, which is what can help those in need navigate life a bit better, and to think 'outside the box'


I totally get the part that he is a bit full of himself. He also puts a lot of stock on making money (bank) to waste on “toys” and “cars”. I don’t know anything about what he charges for 1:1 coaching.
Whom are some of the others you mention?


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## Laurentium

RebuildingMe said:


> Whom are some of the others you mention?


Speaking for myself, I like Stefan Molyneux's calls where he deals one to one with a caller and their relationship issues or life issues. I tend to skip over his more general political / economic / covid rants, and look for the long coaching conversations with one caller.


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## hubbyintrubby

I've been watching the Cooper vids for a few months now and a lot of the things he says are pretty spot on like the other have said. He comes across as arrogant in a few spots, but get that he's trying to push as much confidence as he can. Gives lots of great red flags to watch out for, which is great. I, like you, wish I had seen this stuff so much earlier in my life. Could've helped save some unnecessary grief and drama. Another couple channels I like and watch is BetterBachelor and CoachGregAdams.


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## Luminous

RebuildingMe said:


> I totally get the part that he is a bit full of himself. He also puts a lot of stock on making money (bank) to waste on “toys” and “cars”. I don’t know anything about what he charges for 1:1 coaching.
> Whom are some of the others you mention?


It's been a while since I have watched any 'RP' videos, let alone Youtube itself (got tired of ads so haven't bothered), but there are a few that I find resonate with me. 

The two main ones are 'huMAN' and 'Thinking-Ape' (also known as Stardust). These two examples not only talk about the dating environment, but sometimes societal trends, cultural trends, and the 'inner journey' for enlightenment, without needing to shave your head and go to Tibet.

CRP (Coach Red Pill) is another who has some good videos. He has a good sense of humour, is 50+ and doesn't try to hide it, and whilst I don't agree with 100% of what he speaks, his heart seems to be in the right place.

Coach Greg Adams. Great sense of humour, some interesting information (he does pretty good research and doesn't BS). Basically wants people to have as much information as possible so a better informed decision can be made.

Better Bachelor - Very calm and measured with his delivery, he also has a great sense of humour and alot of useful information on not only the dating world.


I have found that when I started watching this stuff, as time went on I would start 'sifting' through content creators, to the point where if I watch any videos now, they would primarily be philosophical. I enjoy constructive dialogue, or even someone putting out a thoughtful point of view that makes me re-evaluate or re-examine my own.


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## Broken at 20

I know the guy, watched only a few videos. I agreed with what he said, but I personally didn't get too into it. He didn't overly inspire me to better myself, nor did I feel like he was teaching me anything I didn't already know. So I moved to other guys that I like more. 

I do listen to a lot of red-pill guys, generally ones that I find interesting, informative, or inspiring. Since I've started working from home, I can listen to them freely and often. Tom Leykis was definitely the first one exposed to me. Most of his advice was dated though (crazy how much times has changed since early 2000's) so I've since found other creators, and some of them told me things about myself that made me realize, I must change. 

<RANT>
And this is something that has always annoyed me. People attack the community, and disregard segments of it entirely. 
For example, people always attack Tom Leykis (or outright lie about things he said) to paint him in a bad light. Which, to be fair, depending on your views, it's not very hard to make him look like a bad person. 
They completely ignore all the excellent life advice he gives both sexes: don't marry young (neither of you know yourselves); go to college for something USEFUL; men and women BOTH should use some form of birth control to prevent kids unless you want kids; money advice so you don't go bankrupt; wait until you're over 21 at a minimum to get married (25 for guys); wait until you've been married at least 3 years before kids so you truly know the person you married to; don't cheat (despite what some idiot haters think); savings advice; don't have sex with the significant other's of friends. I even remember him giving advice on how to negotiate a salary! 
This is something that people just completely ignore! I'm sure there are terrible elements of this community. Just like I can find terrible segments of any community you could probably care to name. That doesn't discount the good parts/advice of it! 
</RANT>

The guys I listen to on a consistent basis: 
Better Bachelor: he's a very calm, dry-witted guy that delivers very interesting articles. He also has interesting stories and has lived an interesting life that he sometimes shares. I wish he would share more. I think he is very interesting, but wished he would give more advice out.

Kevin Samuels: He often talks with women and I find his show extremely interesting because he often tries to hold a middle ground between the male and female side. And he is very down-to-earth with his advice, and tells people what they NEED to hear instead of what they WANT to hear. He also shows how some people have extremely unrealistic expectations from their relationships, and talks about red-flags in relationships. I'm also envious of his life style, so he motivates me to work harder at my job. He also has good advice about self-grooming. 

The main guy I listen to is Donovan Sharpe. He has a ton of content that I can put on in the background during an 8-12 hour workday. And for me, his main focus is on male self-improvement. 
What I really like about him is how unapologetic he is. Listening to him I realized I had to clean myself up. I've been more rigorous in my workouts to get my body in better shape. I've focused on keeping my apartment cleaner, not because I should to get girls back here easier, but because I want my apartment to be cleaner. I focus more on my work because that is more important in my life than any relationship I'll get. I've upped my personal grooming, because even though no one sees me anymore, I want these habits instilled in me so once the world returns to normal, I will already have the habits. None of this advice was for a girlfriend, it was about my own personal improvement, and I wanted that. 
He does give good relationship advice such as red flags to look out for, how to know when a girl is truly interested in you, dealing with arguments, etc., Plus he understands that relationships can add to life, and brings something to one's life. He's not saying it's necessary, but that it can improve one's life. And explaining that you don't get these things for free: if you want the benefits of a relationship, it will cost something. It's your job to decide whether the price is worth it. 
And he often hosts other creators on a show (almost weekly I think?). He's done collaborations with the two I mentioned above, and they discuss all sorts of topics that I find interesting. I'm surprised he isn't bigger than he is.


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## The Captain

Thank you for the suggested podcasts! I will definitely check them out.


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## happyhusband0005

The one issue I have with Red Pill stuff is it's a wide spectrum of decent self improvement advice to some really toxic attitudes towards women. Ad a disclaimer I will say I may have no idea what I am talking about because I have never sought out info on Red Pill ideas. The big thing I have noticed is most of the more positive self improvement stuff tends to be kind of common sense. You want to be more successful work harder and smarter, you want to get in better shape, don't eat like a slob and learn how to workout correctly, you want to seem more interesting to women, do some stuff with your life to make you more interesting. I guess I never have really bought that there are men running around that need to be told these things, they know these things but just don't want to put in the effort. But maybe the point of a lot of these content creators is to inspire guys to do the stuff they know they should be doing.


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## ccpowerslave

Yeah, the ideal situation is you introduce yourself to the concepts and then live them through actions. You need to “read the sidebar” or whatever but after that you’re better off just doing the actions. Additional time spent on the theory versus actual improvement is mostly wasted IMO.


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## Girl_power

Is Richard cooper happily married? Isn’t he single or divorced or something?


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## Broken at 20

happyhusband0005 said:


> The one issue I have with Red Pill stuff is it's a wide spectrum of decent self improvement advice to some really toxic attitudes towards women. Ad a disclaimer I will say I may have no idea what I am talking about because I have never sought out info on Red Pill ideas.


Since I do not seek out that element, I don't know what percentage of the content creators under the RP umbrella consist of them. But I'll admit they exist.

However, I would also probably agree with most of the advice they probably give, except for the more extreme/toxic elements of it.
Instead of giving my own dating experiences, I will point to Rebecca Lynn Pope. She was a female match-maker that gave it up because her female clients were too demanding. I think her breaking point was when women who didn't have what she herself had, would've refused her husband. That's when she realized her female clients are too demanding. And that's generally women in their 30's! Imagine what it's like for girls in their 20's, and the guys that try to date them!



> The big thing I have noticed is most of the more positive self improvement stuff tends to be kind of common sense. You want to be more successful work harder and smarter, you want to get in better shape, don't eat like a slob and learn how to workout correctly, you want to seem more interesting to women, do some stuff with your life to make you more interesting. I guess I never have really bought that there are men running around that need to be told these things, they know these things but just don't want to put in the effort. But maybe the point of a lot of these content creators is to inspire guys to do the stuff they know they should be doing.


This is entirely possible.

And maybe my situation is unique, but I've had to learn pretty much everything about being a man by myself since I was 19.
I knew most of the basics, it was taking stuff to the next step that I needed to work on.
Easy example would be hygiene and grooming. Like using the cheap 3-in-1 stuff from Walmart doesn't make you smell nice after working out in the morning. Nor does shaving 1-2x a week. So I bought higher quality soap, shampoo, conditioner, and now shave 3-4x a week.

And I will agree. I think a lot of people might be able to hear what they need to do/change to make their life better, but I don't think enough people make any changes or put anything into practice to actually improve it. I'd be willing to bet that less than 50% of the people that consume any self-help media actually make any changes.

It's also just nice to have something to listen to/going on in the background when working long days so I don't go crazy.


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## RebuildingMe

happyhusband0005 said:


> The one issue I have with Red Pill stuff is it's a wide spectrum of decent self improvement advice to some really toxic attitudes towards women. Ad a disclaimer I will say I may have no idea what I am talking about because I have never sought out info on Red Pill ideas. The big thing I have noticed is most of the more positive self improvement stuff tends to be kind of common sense. You want to be more successful work harder and smarter, you want to get in better shape, don't eat like a slob and learn how to workout correctly, you want to seem more interesting to women, do some stuff with your life to make you more interesting. I guess I never have really bought that there are men running around that need to be told these things, they know these things but just don't want to put in the effort. But maybe the point of a lot of these content creators is to inspire guys to do the stuff they know they should be doing.


I agree with you on the self improvement issue, but I have to disagree when it comes to women. They are not toxic towards women. They teach young men the women to stay clear of. The ones that are most likely to hurt you emotionally and/or financially. There is some really good advice when it comes to spotting red flags.


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## Broken at 20

Girl_power said:


> Is Richard cooper happily married? Isn’t he single or divorced or something?


IIRC, I'm pretty sure he is divorced. And I think has a son? (someone might want to check on that, I can't remember) I think he was taken through the ringer in divorce court, and that is probably when he moved to a red-pill life style. And started on the journey to what he is today after that.


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## ccpowerslave

Broken at 20 said:


> I'd be willing to bet that less than 50% of the people that consume any self-help media actually make any changes.


Yep. This is why OYS is important. Instead of doing it on the net I do it with guys from my gym. Either way I am getting regular feedback and accountability.

I think there is a trap in over consuming. I had to cut out a few self-help activities as I feel I have advanced past them which is the goal anyway.


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## RebuildingMe

Girl_power said:


> Is Richard cooper happily married? Isn’t he single or divorced or something?


Is anyone really? He’s divorced with a daughter and was put through the ringer by the Canadian court system, which much like the States, is pro mommy.


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## hubbyintrubby

Girl_power said:


> Is Richard cooper happily married? Isn’t he single or divorced or something?


He's divorced, and it sounded like a tough one. Has one child. He also went through one particularly hard break-up with a woman that kind of woke him up to the RP lifestyle.


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## Broken at 20

My bad. Didn't know it was a daughter. Or that he was in Canada. Interesting. 


RebuildingMe said:


> *Is anyone really?* He’s divorced with a daughter and was put through the ringer by the Canadian court system, which much like the States, is pro mommy.


Of course there are happy people in marriage. It's just a statistically provable minority of the population of people who get married. 

Marriages fail 50% of the time. This statistic changes when you control for certain factors like age, income, education, times married, profession, but of ALL marriages, 50% fail. Which is an easy percentage to get one's head around. And I don't want to break this down when controlling for so many different factors. 

The 50% of marriages that don't end in divorce doesn't include the percentage of people that are unhappy but stay together for the children. Or because they're so old, there's no point in divorcing. So no matter how small that number is (and I don't believe it a small number, but we'll probably never knew the true number), it DOES mean that percentage of men and women that are happy with their marriage is less than 50%. 

So there are certainly happily married people of all ages out there. 
But it's a statistical certainty that those people are in the minority of all people who get married.


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## RebuildingMe

Broken at 20 said:


> My bad. Didn't know it was a daughter. Or that he was in Canada. Interesting.
> 
> Of course there are happy people in marriage. It's just a statistically provable minority of the population of people who get married.
> 
> Marriages fail 50% of the time. This statistic changes when you control for certain factors like age, income, education, times married, profession, but of ALL marriages, 50% fail. Which is an easy percentage to get one's head around. And I don't want to break this down when controlling for so many different factors.
> 
> The 50% of marriages that don't end in divorce doesn't include the percentage of people that are unhappy but stay together for the children. Or because they're so old, there's no point in divorcing. So no matter how small that number is (and I don't believe it a small number, but we'll probably never knew the true number), it DOES mean that percentage of men and women that are happy with their marriage is less than 50%.
> 
> So there are certainly happily married people of all ages out there.
> But it's a statistical certainty that those people are in the minority of all people who get married.


It was tongue and cheek, of course. You probably have better odds to make a living at a slot machine than a happy long term marriage today.


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## Girl_power

I seem to notice a lot of the red pill leaders are not married and they are angry, and bitter. I find it strange when people are drawn to and take advice from people who are not happy in their own life. Why take relationship advice from someone who isn’t happy in a relationship? It just seems strange to me. Like this is the dude you look up to and want to be? 

Just looking through his Instagram I can tell he is a tool. So many negative things about women... and he says ALL women including your mother. He’s what? a single dad in his 50s chasing cool cars and spends time hating and making fun of women. He is the epitome of a red flag, no good women will go anywhere near someone who spreads such hate about women. He is the exact same thing as these feminist crappy women he hates. I honestly haven’t seen one positive thing he has said about women.


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## Girl_power

Oh and one other thing I am a big believer in is, in regards to our social media accounts... what we value, we take pictures of and post on social media. 

If you see a man or women trying to look rich, and take pictures Of expensive things you can guess what their character is. When you see someone not post a single picture of their partner or kids that’s a red flag. 

I understand if you are trying to sell a brand that’s different. But my point is, when men date a women who has half naked pics of themselves, and look like they are always partying and traveling, you can’t be surprised when they want to trade up, or use you for money or a glamorous lifestyle. 
There are so many women who are wholesome, and keep their clothes on and post pics of their families and such, but of course men are not going after these women. 

I really think men need to look at what they are chasing. I don’t understand why they are surprised by the bad women they choose.


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## RebuildingMe

Girl_power said:


> I seem to notice a lot of the red pill leaders are not married and they are angry, and bitter. I find it strange when people are drawn to and take advice from people who are not happy in their own life. Why take relationship advice from someone who isn’t happy in a relationship? It just seems strange to me. Like this is the dude you look up to and want to be?
> 
> Just looking through his Instagram I can tell he is a tool. So many negative things about women... and he says ALL women including your mother. He’s what? a single dad in his 50s chasing cool cars and spends time hating and making fun of women. He is the epitome of a red flag, no good women will go anywhere near someone who spreads such hate about women. He is the exact same thing as these feminist crappy women he hates. I honestly haven’t seen one positive thing he has said about women.


He speaks the truth about feminism. He is a threat to women because he is taking eligible males off the marriage market. I get why females fear his message. It’s a shame the court system is not fair, but there is almost no reason for a male in the US to get married nowadays. The deck is stacked against them.


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## RebuildingMe

Girl_power said:


> Oh and one other thing I am a big believer in is, in regards to our social media accounts... what we value, we take pictures of and post on social media.
> 
> If you see a man or women trying to look rich, and take pictures Of expensive things you can guess what their character is. When you see someone not post a single picture of their partner or kids that’s a red flag.
> 
> I understand if you are trying to sell a brand that’s different. But my point is, when men date a women who has half naked pics of themselves, and look like they are always partying and traveling, you can’t be surprised when they want to trade up, or use you for money or a glamorous lifestyle.
> There are so many women who are wholesome, and keep their clothes on and post pics of their families and such, but of course men are not going after these women.
> 
> I really think men need to look at what they are chasing. I don’t understand why they are surprised by the bad women they choose.


It’s not just the selfies, it’s the keeping contact with their ex’s, mismanaging money, having kids with several different men, looking to trade up at a moments notice, arguing with their ex’s for money, child support, etc...so much more than social media. The book on these women (not all) is slowly coming out. Not in time for me, but in time for my son.


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## Girl_power

RebuildingMe said:


> He speaks the truth about feminism. He is a threat to women because he is taking eligible males off the marriage market. I get why females fear his message. It’s a shame the court system is not fair, but there is almost no reason for a male in the US to get married nowadays. The deck is stacked against them.


I think that whoever makes the most money is at risk of losing more in the marriage. I know plenty of women who are hard working and pay their husbands alimony. Things have definitely changed in regards to divorce because I am hearing a lot more women paying spousal support for their ex husbands now and days. 

In a perfect world, the man would make a lot of money and be able to support his wife while she stays at home and raises the kids and takes care of him. The reality is, this rarely happens. 

I personally think it’s an amazing thing, and incredibly honorable to forgo a career to raise kids. It takes an insane amount of trust to do this imo. However I will never trust a man enough to do this. 

It’s just really hard for two independent, career oriented people to work full time and raise kids today. Someone HAS to sacrifice their career a little bit for modern day marriage to work, and this isn’t necessarily fair, but it’s the way it is. And when sacrifices are made... if you get divorced you may be redeemed for your sacrifice.

Honestly there is no right answer. It’s super hard.


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## Girl_power

RebuildingMe said:


> It’s not just the selfies, it’s the keeping contact with their ex’s, mismanaging money, having kids with several different men, looking to trade up at a moments notice, arguing with their ex’s for money, child support, etc...so much more than social media. The book on these women (not all) is slowly coming out. Not in time for me, but in time for my son.


I agree. I have seen plenty of good men get burned by women, and I am surprised that they didn’t see it coming. But that’s how men are... they want young and hot and girls who put a lot of priority into their looks, and what they wear. I mean if men can’t see this being low character I don’t know what to say. 

The problem with men though, is that they attach value to themselves by dating these “hot” women. And when they date women who aren’t that hot, they think it means something about them, they feel bad about themselves. Men put too much emphasis on looks when it comes to women and it bites them in the end.


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## RebuildingMe

Girl_power said:


> *I think that whoever makes the most money is at risk of losing more in the marriage*. I know plenty of women who are hard working and pay their husbands alimony. Things have definitely changed in regards to divorce because I am hearing a lot more women paying spousal support for their ex husbands now and days.
> 
> In a perfect world, the man would make a lot of money and be able to support his wife while she stays at home and raises the kids and takes care of him. The reality is, this rarely happens.
> Honestly there is no right answer. It’s super hard.


Not when it comes to visitation. Most dads are relegated to every other weekend and a dinner during the week. It’s terrible. I’m living proof, but I’m not giving up the fight.
With regard to the SAHM, it’s a huge risk for both people. The wife gives up the career and the husband is left with the alimony bill. 
IMO, the only “right” answer is to avoid marriage at all cost.


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## Broken at 20

Girl_power said:


> I seem to notice a lot of the red pill leaders are not married and they are angry, and bitter. I find it strange when people are drawn to and take advice from people who are not happy in their own life. Why take relationship advice from someone who isn’t happy in a relationship? It just seems strange to me. Like this is the dude you look up to and want to be?
> 
> Just looking through his Instagram I can tell he is a tool. So many negative things about women... and he says ALL women including your mother. He’s what? a single dad in his 50s chasing cool cars and spends time hating and making fun of women. He is the epitome of a red flag, no good women will go anywhere near someone who spreads such hate about women. He is the exact same thing as these feminist crappy women he hates. I honestly haven’t seen one positive thing he has said about women.


I think I remember why I didn't follow him to closely now...granted, my mother probably does fall into the category of women he speaks of. 

But let's say he lived in a studio apartment and drove an '02 Civic so he could retire in 2 years, which given his divorce probably cutting his wealth in half, would be very impressive. Most people would probably call that person a loser. But now he decides to get fun cars and...do whatever else (I didn't check out his IG). It shows he at least has some juice. 
I won't touch the rest, just something that I don't think everyone (male or female) thinks about. 



Girl_power said:


> There are so many women who are wholesome, and keep their clothes on and post pics of their families and such, but of course men are not going after these women.
> 
> I really think men need to look at what they are chasing. I don’t understand why they are surprised by the bad women they choose.


Unlike most men, I am not surprised by the women I date, bad habits/behaviors, expectations, etc., 
I don't expect a model. An average woman would make me happy, because I am attracted to average women. I just want you to be height-weight proportional. I don't want you to weigh more than I can bench press. 

However, I don't want marriage or kids. And unlike Mr. Cooper (the guys I listen to also acknowledge this) I know there are good girls out there that would love to be a wife/mother. I don't pursue those women. Whether or not I could pursue/get with one isn't my concern. It's that they want something specific and I would merely waste their time, maybe even jade them for a future guy that would make a good father/husband. I am not going to do that to them. I want those people to be together. 



RebuildingMe said:


> He speaks the truth about feminism. He is a threat to women because he is taking eligible males off the marriage market. I get why females fear his message. It’s a shame the court system is not fair, but there is almost no reason for a male in the US to get married nowadays. The deck is stacked against them.


Another important thing to consider, is that red pill guys don't get government funding, or meeting with politicians, or laws slanted in their favor. 
So guys have to work behind the scenes to try and somewhat even the stakes in dating, marriage, etc., 



Girl_power said:


> *I think that whoever makes the most money is at risk of losing more in the marriage*. I know plenty of women who are hard working and pay their husbands alimony. Things have definitely changed in regards to divorce because I am hearing a lot more women paying spousal support for their ex husbands now and days.


I will agree with the bolded part. 

And yes, some women pay men alimony. It's a minority. 
Generally speaking, most women want their husband to earn more than they do, and generally speaking, most husbands do. Also generally speaking, primary custody is awarded to women. And going further, most divorces are initiated by women. 

So, generally speaking, it is far more dangerous for men to get married than women. Because generally, men are earning more, and the wife is more likely to start the divorce, and get the kids. 

Do some men get alimony? Sure. It's a minority. Just like it's a minority of men that get primary custody. And it's a minority of lottery tickets that win. 
Is it a good idea to tell guys to plan their lives around the minority of situations? 



Girl_power said:


> I agree. I have seen plenty of good men get burned by women, and I am surprised that they didn’t see it coming. But that’s how men are... they want young and hot and girls who put a lot of priority into their looks, and what they wear. I mean if men can’t see this being low character I don’t know what to say.
> 
> The problem with men though, is that they attach value to themselves by dating these “hot” women. And when they date women who aren’t that hot, they think it means something about them, they feel bad about themselves. Men put too much emphasis on looks when it comes to women and it bites them in the end.


I will...50% agree with this. 

If some 40-something year old hooks up with some 20-something year old, he's dumb enough to marry her with no pre-nup, and she takes him to the cleaners, no sympathy from me. He's an idiot! (Didn't this happen in two and half men anyway?) 

What I disagree with is regarding the looks. Men need you to be attractive to function sexually. You don't need to be a knock-out 10, or look like a porn star. But we need to be sexually attracted to you for us to be able to have sex. 
Luckily, if I remember correctly, men are literally attracted to 80% of women. So it's not that hard to be attractive to a man.


----------



## Girl_power

RebuildingMe said:


> Not when it comes to visitation. Most dads are relegated to every other weekend and a dinner during the week. It’s terrible. I’m living proof, but I’m not giving up the fight.
> With regard to the SAHM, it’s a huge risk for both people. The wife gives up the career and the husband is left with the alimony bill.
> IMO, the only “right” answer is to avoid marriage at all cost.


Then what do you do when you want a family with someone?

And yes I think it would be wise for you never to marry again.


----------



## Girl_power

Broken at 20 said:


> I think I remember why I didn't follow him to closely now...granted, my mother probably does fall into the category of women he speaks of.
> 
> But let's say he lived in a studio apartment and drove an '02 Civic so he could retire in 2 years, which given his divorce probably cutting his wealth in half, would be very impressive. Most people would probably call that person a loser. But now he decides to get fun cars and...do whatever else (I didn't check out his IG). It shows he at least has some juice.
> I won't touch the rest, just something that I don't think everyone (male or female) thinks about.
> 
> 
> Unlike most men, I am not surprised by the women I date, bad habits/behaviors, expectations, etc.,
> I don't expect a model. An average woman would make me happy, because I am attracted to average women. I just want you to be height-weight proportional. I don't want you to weigh more than I can bench press.
> 
> However, I don't want marriage or kids. And unlike Mr. Cooper (the guys I listen to also acknowledge this) I know there are good girls out there that would love to be a wife/mother. I don't pursue those women. Whether or not I could pursue/get with one isn't my concern. It's that they want something specific and I would merely waste their time, maybe even jade them for a future guy that would make a good father/husband. I am not going to do that to them. I want those people to be together.
> 
> 
> Another important thing to consider, is that red pill guys don't get government funding, or meeting with politicians, or laws slanted in their favor.
> So guys have to work behind the scenes to try and somewhat even the stakes in dating, marriage, etc.,
> 
> 
> I will agree with the bolded part.
> 
> And yes, some women pay men alimony. It's a minority.
> Generally speaking, most women want their husband to earn more than they do, and generally speaking, most husbands do. Also generally speaking, primary custody is awarded to women. And going further, most divorces are initiated by women.
> 
> So, generally speaking, it is far more dangerous for men to get married than women. Because generally, men are earning more, and the wife is more likely to start the divorce, and get the kids.
> 
> Do some men get alimony? Sure. It's a minority. Just like it's a minority of men that get primary custody. And it's a minority of lottery tickets that win.
> Is it a good idea to tell guys to plan their lives around the minority of situations?
> 
> 
> I will...50% agree with this.
> 
> If some 40-something year old hooks up with some 20-something year old, he's dumb enough to marry her with no pre-nup, and she takes him to the cleaners, no sympathy from me. He's an idiot! (Didn't this happen in two and half men anyway?)
> 
> What I disagree with is regarding the looks. Men need you to be attractive to function sexually. You don't need to be a knock-out 10, or look like a porn star. But we need to be sexually attracted to you for us to be able to have sex.
> Luckily, if I remember correctly, men are literally attracted to 80% of women. So it's not that hard to be attractive to a man.


Generally speaking men make more than women. They also work more. Which is why they usually don’t get full custody. 

And both women and men want the man to make more, especially red pill men. They are not keen on career women. 


Of course men need to be attracted to their women: but there is a big different between an attractive women, and one that puts SO much emphasis on it, and showing it off. Many times Women who spend a lot of time and money to look good expect their men to not only appreciate it, but finance it once they are together/married. Men have no idea what upkeep some of these women do, and a lot of men can’t afford women like that.


----------



## hubbyintrubby

Girl_power said:


> Generally speaking men make more than women. They also work more. Which is why they usually don’t get full custody.
> 
> *And both women and men want the man to make more, especially red pill men. They are not keen on career women.*
> 
> 
> Of course men need to be attracted to their women: but there is a big different between an attractive women, and one that puts SO much emphasis on it, and showing it off. Many times Women who spend a lot of time and money to look good expect their men to not only appreciate it, but finance it once they are together/married. Men have no idea what upkeep some of these women do, and a lot of men can’t afford women like that.


"Red pill men" actually know better than to bankroll a woman in any way, because they know that dollars to donuts, they will most likely be bankrolling her either when he's with her by choice, or by force (court order) after she's not. Thanks to these men who are making other men aware, that will be happening less and less as time goes on. It really is true that men are gaining less and less by getting married.


----------



## Luminous

Girl_power said:


> I agree. I have seen plenty of good men get burned by women, and I am surprised that they didn’t see it coming. But that’s how men are... they want young and hot and girls who put a lot of priority into their looks, and what they wear. I mean if men can’t see this being low character I don’t know what to say.
> 
> The problem with men though, is that they attach value to themselves by dating these “hot” women. And when they date women who aren’t that hot, they think it means something about them, they feel bad about themselves. Men put too much emphasis on looks when it comes to women and it bites them in the end.


It's a common issue with both sexes these days Girl Power. The crusade for validation. So many make the mistake of seeking it from others, and in turn give others power over them. All they need to do is turn their radar back on themselves to liberate themselves from pleasing others.


----------



## Enigma32

I think there is a lot of truth to the red pill stuff but people need to listen to it in moderation. It probably could become easy to start resenting women if you sit around and listen/read red pill messages all the time.

From a man's perspective, I think there is a definite problem with relationships in Western culture but I don't blame women, I blame the culture. Ladies are just playing the game, I don't blame them for trying to win.

Women initiate divorce over 70% of the time. Men only receive alimony 3% of the time, despite the fact that 40% of couples have a female breadwinner. Men only receive custody of their children 35% of the time. That doesn't even take into account the clear disadvantages that men have when it comes to dating these days, and the just plain ignorant standard advice men are given when it comes to finding a woman. Ladies are winning the game and they are winning easily. Men either need to learn to change the rules or play a different game. That's where these red pill guys come in. I bet many of them don't have a clue either though.


----------



## Girl_power

Luminous said:


> It's a common issue with both sexes these days Girl Power. The crusade for validation. So many make the mistake of seeking it from others, and in turn give others power over them. All they need to do is turn their radar back on themselves to liberate themselves from pleasing others.


I agree. Unfortunately to make a relationship work, one has to often times put the needs of the other first, sacrifice, and do something they don’t necessarily want to do for the common good of the relationship. 
Selfishness is a relationship destroyer.

I get what everyone is saying, we all need to protect ourselves. But it takes two vulnerable people to make a relationship work. And these red pill people don’t seem to understand that. They are all about protecting themselves only.


----------



## hubbyintrubby

Girl_power said:


> I agree. Unfortunately to make a relationship work, one has to often times put the needs of the other first, sacrifice, and do something they don’t necessarily want to do for the common good of the relationship.
> Selfishness is a relationship destroyer.
> 
> I get what everyone is saying, we all need to protect ourselves. But it takes two vulnerable people to make a relationship work. And these red pill people don’t seem to understand that. They are all about protecting themselves only.


Right.....but these "red pill people" are protecting themselves because of damage they've received and hurt they've gone through in more times than not. They've looked into red pill ideology for a reason, usually not just out of the blue for no reason. At a certain point, it causes more damage than good to be vulnerable and men are finding ways to protect themselves (finally).


----------



## RebuildingMe

Girl_power said:


> Then what do you do when you want a family with someone?
> 
> And yes I think it would be wise for you never to marry again.


No one says you need to be married to have a family. You have to release everything you’ve been taught for the last 30-40 years. The world doesn’t work that way anymore. Men are starting to adapt to the opd set of rules that never change. They are hopefully more ‘aware’ of the dangers in selecting the wrong mate. Some don’t want to take the chance at selecting the wrong mate, so they have many and select none.

Point number two well taken!


----------



## Girl_power

RebuildingMe said:


> No one says you need to be married to have a family. You have to release everything you’ve been taught for the last 30-40 years. The world doesn’t work that way anymore. Men are starting to adapt to the opd set of rules that never change. They are hopefully more ‘aware’ of the dangers in selecting the wrong mate. Some don’t want to take the chance at selecting the wrong mate, so they have many and select none.
> 
> Point number two well taken!


Sorry I think raising children is best done in a traditional setting with two parents. Studies prove this. Red pill men are all about this as well. 
A child should have two parents. It takes two to raise children, it’s not easy. And if you don’t get married that’s fine, but you will eventually be married in the sight of the state if it’s common law.


----------



## Girl_power

Enigma32 said:


> I think there is a lot of truth to the red pill stuff but people need to listen to it in moderation. It probably could become easy to start resenting women if you sit around and listen/read red pill messages all the time.
> 
> From a man's perspective, I think there is a definite problem with relationships in Western culture but I don't blame women, I blame the culture. Ladies are just playing the game, I don't blame them for trying to win.
> 
> Women initiate divorce over 70% of the time. Men only receive alimony 3% of the time, despite the fact that 40% of couples have a female breadwinner. Men only receive custody of their children 35% of the time. That doesn't even take into account the clear disadvantages that men have when it comes to dating these days, and the just plain ignorant standard advice men are given when it comes to finding a woman. Ladies are winning the game and they are winning easily. Men either need to learn to change the rules or play a different game. That's where these red pill guys come in. I bet many of them don't have a clue either though.


Women are not winning. Every married person wants to be happily married. It’s not fun to be single And divorced and starting over. Even if you get alimony and the kids. These people are not winning.
Divorce is not fun, starting over it not fun. Ruining your family is not fun. So the fact that people choose divorce to me is a sign that the marriage was SO bad that they would rather be alone and start over than be with their spouse. That’s crazy to think about. 

I asked a question on here not that long ago about anyone ever regretting their divorce, everyone said no. Many said it was the best thing they have ever did. That’s telling! 

You guys are getting mad about Women initiating divorce, then say they don’t regret it. Something doesn’t add up right. 

People need to work on divorce proofing their marriage, making their marriage great. NOT not getting married, being self and protecting yourself.


----------



## hubbyintrubby

Girl_power said:


> Sorry I think raising children is best done in a traditional setting with two parents. Studies prove this. Red pill men are all about this as well.
> A child should have two parents. It takes two to raise children, it’s not easy. And if you don’t get married that’s fine, but you will eventually be married in the sight of the state if it’s common law.


Studies also show that when the best case scenario of parents staying together and being happy forever can't or doesn't happen, that equal time with both parents is what is best for that child. It's too bad that courts, lawyers and the majority of mothers of those children do not agree with those studies.


----------



## Luminous

Girl_power said:


> I agree. Unfortunately to make a relationship work, one has to often times put the needs of the other first, sacrifice, and do something they don’t necessarily want to do for the common good of the relationship.
> Selfishness is a relationship destroyer.
> 
> I get what everyone is saying, we all need to protect ourselves. But it takes two vulnerable people to make a relationship work. And these red pill people don’t seem to understand that. They are all about protecting themselves only.


It's not so much unfortunate, but rather, if someone is self assured, they CHOOSE to be vulnerable to another, knowing the possible ramifications but doing so as they are fully aware of the pros/cons, and not relying on another to 'fulfil' them.


----------



## Girl_power

hubbyintrubby said:


> Studies also show that when the best case scenario of parents staying together and being happy forever can't or doesn't happen, that equal time with both parents is what is best for that child. It's too bad that courts, lawyers and the majority of mothers of those children do not agree with those studies.


That’s not true. Kids need stability, that is why they typically choose someone with primary custody. Kids shouldn’t be bused back and forth between homes so frequently that it make them feel like they don’t even have a home.

We’re you from divorced parents as a kid?


----------



## ccpowerslave

There are many components of red pill but the self improvement aspect for the sake of it is good regardless of “game”.

As someone married over 20 years there is still value in so-called married red pill for me in that it reminds you that you need to run game on your wife in a similar way you would run game on her when she’s one of the plates you’re spinning. 

It’s very easy to fall into the comfort trap where you achieve what society told you to do and then you think you’re done. You’re never done.


----------



## hubbyintrubby

Girl_power said:


> That’s not true. Kids need stability, that is why they typically choose someone with primary custody. Kids shouldn’t be bused back and forth between homes so frequently that it make them feel like they don’t even have a home.
> 
> We’re you from divorced parents as a kid?


Actually....it is true. Yes, stability is something that children need among many many other things, which include both a feminine and masculine upbringing. How do you think the world got so many "nice guys"? It was by the fact that so many young men were raised by households that were run by single women and single mothers who taught those men to worship the ground women walk on and submit to their every want, need and request....with zero male or masculine role models in their lives.

I was not, but I'm divorced myself. I was one of the lucky ones. My ex-wife recognized early on, even though she was angry, that equal time with both of our children with each other was what was best for them in many different ways.


----------



## RebuildingMe

Girl_power said:


> Women are not winning. Every married person wants to be happily married. It’s not fun to be single And divorced and starting over. Even if you get alimony and the kids. These people are not winning.
> Divorce is not fun, starting over it not fun. Ruining your family is not fun. So the fact that people choose divorce to me is a sign that the marriage was SO bad that they would rather be alone and start over than be with their spouse. That’s crazy to think about.
> 
> I asked a question on here not that long ago about anyone ever regretting their divorce, everyone said no. Many said it was the best thing they have ever did. That’s telling!
> 
> You guys are getting mad about Women initiating divorce, then say they don’t regret it. Something doesn’t add up right.
> 
> People need to work on divorce proofing their marriage, making their marriage great. NOT not getting married, being self and protecting yourself.


I think you are missing the point of RP. It teaches men that there is more to life than marriage. You can be excellent at what you do, settle down in your own place and date and be happier in life than if you choose the wrong partner to marry. You, as the woman, are solely driven by locking up your man in marriage. There are simply a larger amount of men out there that refuse to get locked up. As Richard Cooper says, “the juice is not worth the squeeze”.

So how do you counteract this new shift? Don’t complain about that lack of good men in the dating pool. Instead, write to your congressman about changing the custody laws where you live. It’s only going to get worse for young single women over the next couple of decades. Marriage is already on the decline with millennials.


----------



## SpinyNorman

I prefer reading to being read to, so I mostly don't watch videos. So I haven't seen these.

Self help books that give you info or theories and then let you think for yourself are well and good, what I find specious is the "cook book" approach that pigeonholes people and tries to make complex human interactions into a simplistic algorithm.


----------



## Broken at 20

Girl_power said:


> *I asked a question on here not that long ago about anyone ever regretting their divorce, everyone said no. Many said it was the best thing they have ever did. That’s telling!*
> 
> You guys are getting mad about Women initiating divorce, then say they don’t regret it. Something doesn’t add up right.
> 
> People need to work on divorce proofing their marriage, making their marriage great. NOT not getting married, being self and protecting yourself.


I wasn't aware of that, but that's very interesting! 
I wonder if it's due to the kind of people this site attracts. Since, I doubt a happily married couple would seek out this forum. 

I wonder if maybe the question had been worded differently? Maybe if you could go back and change your life, would you do it all over again, if the answers would change? But that's splitting hairs at this point. 
Still, interesting to know!



Luminous said:


> It's not so much unfortunate, but rather, if someone is self assured, they CHOOSE to be vulnerable to another, knowing the possible ramifications but doing so as they are fully aware of the pros/cons, and not relying on another to 'fulfil' them.


I...somewhat disagree with this point. 
In marriage, yes, you both need to be somewhat vulnerable. The degree to which depends on the relationship. 
But in dating, I think it's dangerous to be overly vulnerable to any female I am dating (and for guys in general). I have yet to hear a girl say how she loved how emotional and open her guy is. (Cue all the women flaming me and saying they love their husband is like this). Any woman I am dating can share her feelings with me, but it's a one-way street, I am not giving mine back. Not saying I won't be affectionate or loving or whatever if the relationship is at that stage, but she doesn't get to see into my inner psyche. 
Some might argue this is unhealthy, but I don't care. Men hide their feelings. Why!? Because it's none of your !%#&#&$ business! (-Boondock Saints II)



Girl_power said:


> That’s not true. Kids need stability, that is why they typically choose someone with primary custody. Kids shouldn’t be bused back and forth between homes so frequently that it make them feel like they don’t even have a home.
> 
> We’re you from divorced parents as a kid?


*Were

I think you misread what he posted. 

I agree with you. It is ideal for kids to have an intact family structure and spend time with both parents. 
What I think you missed is *he said* that when this ideal situation cannot be achieved for whatever reason, it's best for kids to spend equal time with BOTH parents. 

Now, we cannot 100% know that this approach is effective, mostly because we lack the statistics to know one way or the other. But one thing we do know, is that when the majority of child custody is held by single mothers, and when the percentage of the inmate population (this statistic varies depending on prison/jail, felon or something else, very difficult to get a solid number) from single mother households is 70%-85%-90%, the current method of awarding one parent the lion's share of custody, is NOT working.


----------



## Broken at 20

ccpowerslave said:


> There are many components of red pill but the self improvement aspect for the sake of it is good regardless of “game”.
> 
> As someone married over 20 years there is still value in so-called married red pill for me in that it reminds you that you need to run game on your wife in a similar way you would run game on her when she’s one of the plates you’re spinning.
> 
> *It’s very easy to fall into the comfort trap where you achieve what society told you to do and then you think you’re done. You’re never done.*


I think this is critical. 

I eventually achieved my goals I set myself in college. I wanted to work for a firm in the Big 4, and live in a bachelor pad downtown with all my toys. I've achieved this, but didn't exactly get the happiness I envisioned. This is mostly due to me not loving my job (I love the company, the people I work with, but I dislike the actual work I do). 

So I've set new goals for myself. I see my current job as a try-out (sometimes it feels like a prison sentence). I am working hard so I can get a new job earning more in the future, then move out of downtown, get a house, and turn that thing into a bachelor pad. 

And then, I'll probably have new goals. 

It's constantly about setting new goals and making sure I'm never content, that I always have something more to strive for. 

And a lot of the guys I listen to help keep me motivated to keep going, and not rest on my laurels.


----------



## RebuildingMe

Broken at 20 said:


> But one thing we do know, is that when the majority of child custody is held by single mothers, and when the percentage of the inmate population (this statistic varies depending on prison/jail, felon or something else, very difficult to get a solid number) from single mother households is 70%-85%-90%, the current method of awarding one parent the lion's share of custody, is NOT working.


And a son being majorly raised by mom is almost certain to grow up beta and blue pilled who will make the same mistakes his parents did. My mom was married x3.


----------



## SpinyNorman

Girl_power said:


> Women are not winning. Every married person wants to be happily married. It’s not fun to be single And divorced and starting over. Even if you get alimony and the kids. These people are not winning.
> Divorce is not fun, starting over it not fun. Ruining your family is not fun. So the fact that people choose divorce to me is a sign that the marriage was SO bad that they would rather be alone and start over than be with their spouse. That’s crazy to think about.
> 
> I asked a question on here not that long ago about anyone ever regretting their divorce, everyone said no. Many said it was the best thing they have ever did. That’s telling!
> 
> You guys are getting mad about Women initiating divorce, then say they don’t regret it. Something doesn’t add up right.
> 
> People need to work on divorce proofing their marriage, making their marriage great. NOT not getting married, being self and protecting yourself.


I think divorce is not fun, but sometimes it is the best alternative.

As for staying single, to each his own. I wish people would think about what is going to make them happy and what they can make work, as opposed to just trying to conform to what they think is expected of them.


----------



## happyhusband0005

I think after watching some of the Richard Cooper stuff I have created a new classification for the Red Pill Alpha stuff. What these guys are promoting IMO is being Alpha BOYS not being Alpha MEN. The undercurrent of it all I find very whiny basically. These guys are being tricked into thinking that all women are one way, all women are looking to use men. Well there is a reason why some guys get used by the women they go after. Advice on how to avoid these types of women is OK, but if you're not man enough to please a woman enough to keep her you can talk about being alpha all you want, you're an Alpha boy. 

MEN take responsibility for others, BOYS only want to be responsible for themselves. Thats where I come down. It's not hard to keep a good woman happy and have her want to keep you happy, being an A-hole is not the way to go about it. When looking for a way to succeed don't turn to advice from people who have failed.


----------



## hubbyintrubby

happyhusband0005 said:


> I think after watching some of the Richard Cooper stuff I have created a new classification for the Red Pill Alpha stuff. What these guys are promoting IMO is being Alpha BOYS not being Alpha MEN. The undercurrent of it all I find very whiny basically. These guys are being tricked into thinking that all women are one way, all women are looking to use men. Well there is a reason why some guys get used by the women they go after. Advice on how to avoid these types of women is OK, but if you're not man enough to please a woman enough to keep her you can talk about being alpha all you want, you're an Alpha boy.
> 
> MEN take responsibility for others, BOYS only want to be responsible for themselves. Thats where I come down. It's not hard to keep a good woman happy and have her want to keep you happy, being an A-hole is not the way to go about it. When looking for a way to succeed don't turn to advice from people who have failed.


I'm curious where you and when you came up with the opinion that men take responsibility for others and that boys only want to be responsible for themselves.


----------



## SpinyNorman

happyhusband0005 said:


> I think after watching some of the Richard Cooper stuff I have created a new classification for the Red Pill Alpha stuff. What these guys are promoting IMO is being Alpha BOYS not being Alpha MEN. The undercurrent of it all I find very whiny basically. These guys are being tricked into thinking that all women are one way, all women are looking to use men. Well there is a reason why some guys get used by the women they go after. Advice on how to avoid these types of women is OK, but if you're not man enough to please a woman enough to keep her you can talk about being alpha all you want, you're an Alpha boy.
> 
> MEN take responsibility for others, BOYS only want to be responsible for themselves. Thats where I come down. It's not hard to keep a good woman happy and have her want to keep you happy, being an A-hole is not the way to go about it. When looking for a way to succeed don't turn to advice from people who have failed.


If someone says they got burned, I will listen and decide if there's a lesson in there I can use. Sometimes there is, sometimes not.

I have certain responsibilities and I take them seriously, but redeeming checks someone else wrote isn't among them. If someone wants to consider me a beta or a boy for not conforming to someone else's expectations, it bothers me not.


----------



## Broken at 20

happyhusband0005 said:


> I think after watching some of the Richard Cooper stuff I have created a new classification for the Red Pill Alpha stuff. What these guys are promoting IMO is being Alpha BOYS not being Alpha MEN. The undercurrent of it all I find very whiny basically. These guys are being tricked into thinking that all women are one way, all women are looking to use men. Well there is a reason why some guys get used by the women they go after. Advice on how to avoid these types of women is OK, but if you're not man enough to please a woman enough to keep her you can talk about being alpha all you want, you're an Alpha boy.
> 
> *MEN take responsibility for others, BOYS only want to be responsible for themselves.* Thats where I come down. It's not hard to keep a good woman happy and have her want to keep you happy, being an A-hole is not the way to go about it. When looking for a way to succeed don't turn to advice from people who have failed.


*I 100% disagree*. A man doesn't give two !%*#'s about what others think of him, and can decide his happiness in life. If your happiness comes from having a wife and kids and being the provider, congratulations, sounds like you achieved your goal. 
If my happiness in life is having toys, a tricked out place to call my own, and taking care of myself like every adult should, then I am a man, and NO MAN is going to tell me different. I am no less of a man than you because I didn't impregnate somebody and now pay for kids. My happiness just comes from different sources than yours, and who are you to judge that? 

And a quick perusing of this forum will probably pull up 100 threads of husbands trying to keep their wives happy and failing. 


To another one of your points in your post: for any man that is entering a marriage (or in some countries, co-habiting relationship with a woman) that is also earning more than his wife and plans to be the primary breadwinner, he is ALWAYS at danger in the event of the divorce. 
Because statistically speaking, the wife will initiate it, he will pay alimony, she will get the kids and child support, and the state will enforce it. And again...STATISTICALLY speaking, it is highly unlikely (<50%) that he will be happily married for the rest of his life. 
And I am sure you will argue that any guy getting married should know his wife well enough to determine whether or not she would do that. And to counter that point, I would ask you to go to the Coping with Infidelity section, and post a thread asking "Did any of you on your wedding day foresee your spouse cheating on you, or you cheating on them?" 
People change, so whoever they were when you married them, they'll probably be a very different person if you divorce them.


----------



## Enigma32

Girl_power said:


> Women are not winning. Every married person wants to be happily married. It’s not fun to be single And divorced and starting over. Even if you get alimony and the kids. These people are not winning.
> Divorce is not fun, starting over it not fun. Ruining your family is not fun. So the fact that people choose divorce to me is a sign that the marriage was SO bad that they would rather be alone and start over than be with their spouse. That’s crazy to think about.


Marriage becomes SO bad because they know they can just divorce if things start to go downhill. Instead of working on things and being a decent partner, they actively make things worse on the way out until the marriage is just a dumpster fire. So, yeah, of course they'd rather be alone than to burn in the fire they created. Easier to just walk away and start over with someone new. 



> I asked a question on here not that long ago about anyone ever regretting their divorce, everyone said no. Many said it was the best thing they have ever did. That’s telling!
> 
> You guys are getting mad about Women initiating divorce, then say they don’t regret it. Something doesn’t add up right.


Read what I said above. I don't regret my divorce either. When I first met my ex wife, she was fun, and loving, and a good conversationalist. By the time things started to end, she spent all of her time on her phone texting people or playing on Facebook. Se started getting really shady, she cheated, and she bad mouthed me to anyone who would listen. Do I regret getting away from THAT woman? No. That's why the men I know don't regret our divorce. The woman we married is always different from the one we divorced and that girl is toxic AF. 



> People need to work on divorce proofing their marriage, making their marriage great. NOT not getting married, being self and protecting yourself.


People can make whatever choices they want. Personally, I think Western culture is toxic towards men and there is very little reason to marry anyone that is part of that culture. If a guy gets married, the chances are rather high that his wife is just gonna decide to roll out one day, take his kids, and get part of his paycheck. That ruins men's lives, period.


----------



## happyhusband0005

hubbyintrubby said:


> I'm curious where you and when you came up with the opinion that men take responsibility for others and that boys only want to be responsible for themselves.


Life, For example you see a guy running around focused on his own life barely involved with his kids at all. He claims he is a man who focuses on his happiness. Well a MAN would be placing a high priority on being a father to his kids so this guy is a boy not a man. I don't want to hear whining about being divorced and their mother is evil, I've seen plenty of men with batpoop crazy ex wives still remain responsible fathers, and I've seen weak losers sulk in the corner and say it's to hard dealing with that witch to fight to be a major part of my kids lives. The difference between these guys is one is a man the other is a boy. Since prehistoric times men have served the role as leader and protector, we are the hunters who hunt to provide for the women and children. A BOY remains a boy until he can provide for others. Children are self centered, little boys are really only concerned with what they want and what they are getting, A man can handle concerning himself with his own happiness while providing for others. 

What I see from the Red Pill stuff I have gone to look at since the start of this thread there seems to be a theme that in order to be respected by a woman you need to make her serve you, and if you're providing you're being a sucker and she is going to disrespect you. Well after 20 years of happy marriage I can attest you can be a provider and take pride in being responsible for others while not allowing yourself to be disrespected or taken for granted. It's not an either or scenario. Again it's the difference between men and boys.


----------



## Broken at 20

happyhusband0005 said:


> Life, For example you see a guy running around focused on his own life barely involved with his kids at all. He claims he is a man who focuses on his happiness. Well a MAN would be placing a high priority on being a father to his kids so this guy is a boy not a man. I don't want to hear whining about being divorced and their mother is evil, I've seen plenty of men with batpoop crazy ex wives still remain responsible fathers, and I've seen weak losers sulk in the corner and say it's to hard dealing with that witch to fight to be a major part of my kids lives. The difference between these guys is one is a man the other is a boy. Since prehistoric times men have served the role as leader and protector, we are the hunters who hunt to provide for the women and children. A BOY remains a boy until he can provide for others. Children are self centered, little boys are really only concerned with what they want and what they are getting, A man can handle concerning himself with his own happiness while providing for others.
> 
> What I see from the Red Pill stuff I have gone to look at since the start of this thread there seems to be a theme that in order to be respected by a woman you need to make her serve you, and if you're providing you're being a sucker and she is going to disrespect you. Well after 20 years of happy marriage I can attest you can be a provider and take pride in being responsible for others while not allowing yourself to be disrespected or taken for granted. It's not an either or scenario. Again it's the difference between men and boys.


----------



## hubbyintrubby

happyhusband0005 said:


> Life, For example you see a guy running around focused on his own life barely involved with his kids at all. He claims he is a man who focuses on his happiness. Well a MAN would be placing a high priority on being a father to his kids so this guy is a boy not a man. I don't want to hear whining about being divorced and their mother is evil, I've seen plenty of men with batpoop crazy ex wives still remain responsible fathers, and I've seen weak losers sulk in the corner and say it's to hard dealing with that witch to fight to be a major part of my kids lives. The difference between these guys is one is a man the other is a boy. Since prehistoric times men have served the role as leader and protector, we are the hunters who hunt to provide for the women and children. A BOY remains a boy until he can provide for others. Children are self centered, little boys are really only concerned with what they want and what they are getting, A man can handle concerning himself with his own happiness while providing for others.
> 
> What I see from the Red Pill stuff I have gone to look at since the start of this thread there seems to be a theme that in order to be respected by a woman you need to make her serve you, and if you're providing you're being a sucker and she is going to disrespect you. Well after 20 years of happy marriage I can attest you can be a provider and take pride in being responsible for others while not allowing yourself to be disrespected or taken for granted. It's not an either or scenario. Again it's the difference between men and boys.


Well we all have our opinions and I respect yours. Thank you for sharing.


----------



## RebuildingMe

@Girl_power 
I give you a lot credit for at least trying to engage in the discussion. Happy New Year!


----------



## RebuildingMe

happyhusband0005 said:


> Life, For example you see a guy running around focused on his own life barely involved with his kids at all. He claims he is a man who focuses on his happiness. Well a MAN would be placing a high priority on being a father to his kids so this guy is a boy not a man. I don't want to hear whining about being divorced and their mother is evil, I've seen plenty of men with batpoop crazy ex wives still remain responsible fathers, and I've seen weak losers sulk in the corner and say it's to hard dealing with that witch to fight to be a major part of my kids lives. The difference between these guys is one is a man the other is a boy. Since prehistoric times men have served the role as leader and protector, we are the hunters who hunt to provide for the women and children. A BOY remains a boy until he can provide for others. Children are self centered, little boys are really only concerned with what they want and what they are getting, A man can handle concerning himself with his own happiness while providing for others.
> 
> What I see from the Red Pill stuff I have gone to look at since the start of this thread there seems to be a theme that in order to be respected by a woman you need to make her serve you, and if you're providing you're being a sucker and she is going to disrespect you. Well after 20 years of happy marriage I can attest you can be a provider and take pride in being responsible for others while not allowing yourself to be disrespected or taken for granted. It's not an either or scenario. Again it's the difference between men and boys.


With all due respect, you might feel differently if you found out your beautiful 20 year marriage was ripped apart because your loving wife banged another dude she felt had a higher value than you.


----------



## Broken at 20

RebuildingMe said:


> With all due respect, you might feel differently if you found out your beautiful 20 year marriage was ripped apart because your loving wife banged another dude she felt had a higher value than you.


Or if your first son wasn't yours.


----------



## SpinyNorman

happyhusband0005 said:


> Life, For example you see a guy running around focused on his own life barely involved with his kids at all. He claims he is a man who focuses on his happiness. Well a MAN would be placing a high priority on being a father to his kids so this guy is a boy not a man. I don't want to hear whining about being divorced and their mother is evil, I've seen plenty of men with batpoop crazy ex wives still remain responsible fathers, and I've seen weak losers sulk in the corner and say it's to hard dealing with that witch to fight to be a major part of my kids lives. The difference between these guys is one is a man the other is a boy. Since prehistoric times men have served the role as leader and protector, we are the hunters who hunt to provide for the women and children. A BOY remains a boy until he can provide for others. Children are self centered, little boys are really only concerned with what they want and what they are getting, A man can handle concerning himself with his own happiness while providing for others.
> 
> What I see from the Red Pill stuff I have gone to look at since the start of this thread there seems to be a theme that in order to be respected by a woman you need to make her serve you, and if you're providing you're being a sucker and she is going to disrespect you. Well after 20 years of happy marriage I can attest you can be a provider and take pride in being responsible for others while not allowing yourself to be disrespected or taken for granted. It's not an either or scenario. Again it's the difference between men and boys.


If I father a child, I've taken on a responsibility. If some girl was raised w/ the expectation I would provide for her, not so much.

If a boy is someone who thinks for himself, I don't want to be a man.


----------



## hubbyintrubby

RebuildingMe said:


> With all due respect, you might feel differently if you found out your beautiful 20 year marriage was ripped apart because your loving wife banged another dude she felt had a higher value than you.


Or maybe he wouldn't and to him a "man" is someone who does all these things no matter what. At least that's what it sounds like . I don't see any other qualifiers here, so may he would be the prototypical doormat we see so often here.


----------



## happyhusband0005

SpinyNorman said:


> If I father a child, I've taken on a responsibility. If some girl was raised w/ the expectation I would provide for her, not so much.
> 
> If a boy is someone who thinks for himself, I don't want to be a man.


No if you raise a child you've taken responsibility, GIGANTIC difference.


----------



## hubbyintrubby

happyhusband0005 said:


> No if you raise a child you've taken responsibility, GIGANTIC difference.


Right....another giant difference....taking responsibility for a child you father and taking responsibility for a grown woman.


----------



## SpinyNorman

happyhusband0005 said:


> No if you raise a child you've taken responsibility, GIGANTIC difference.


I think we are misunderstanding each other, let me explain. What I mean by "taken on a responsibility" is, incurred a responsibility. If I sign a contract, I incur(take on) a responsibility.

"Take responsibility" is to live up to a responsibility, IMO.

So I would say a man who fathers a child takes on(or incurs) a responsibility, and if/when he raises said child, he has taken responsibility. 

A guy who stays single and doesn't father kids has not, as far as I can tell, taken on any responsibilities.


----------



## happyhusband0005

RebuildingMe said:


> With all due respect, you might feel differently if you found out your beautiful 20 year marriage was ripped apart because your loving wife banged another dude she felt had a higher value than you.


I might but that is not something I am afraid will happen. At the risk of coming off as over confident It would be a stretch to find higher value than me statistically extremely unlikely maybe a .001% chance. My wife knows what I will not put up with. 



hubbyintrubby said:


> Or maybe he wouldn't and to him a "man" is someone who does all these things no matter what. At least that's what it sounds like . I don't see any other qualifiers here, so may he would be the prototypical doormat we see so often here.


Nope if your wife cheats she's out. But again you running scared that this is a given, says a lot about your confidence to keep a woman happy. 

If you were burned by an ex either she was a crappy woman to begin with and you would have got value from the RP stuff to help identify that or 2 you were not taking care of things.

The RP stuff assumes you either have to be a wimpy kiss up husband or a bad ass care only for myself guy. You can be a caretaker and protector and provider and demand you are taken care of as well. It's not one or the other. It's not doormat or a-hole. If you're either one, you're doing it wrong.


----------



## happyhusband0005

SpinyNorman said:


> I think we are misunderstanding each other, let me explain. What I mean by "taken on a responsibility" is, incurred a responsibility. If I sign a contract, I incur(take on) a responsibility.
> 
> "Take responsibility" is to live up to a responsibility, IMO.
> 
> So I would say a man who fathers a child takes on(or incurs) a responsibility, and if/when he raises said child, he has taken responsibility.
> 
> A guy who stays single and doesn't father kids has not, as far as I can tell, taken on any responsibilities.


Yes that wording makes sense. But would you agree that a MAN takes the responsibility.


----------



## happyhusband0005

hubbyintrubby said:


> Right....another giant difference....taking responsibility for a child you father and taking responsibility for a grown woman.


And by my definition a man is willing to take that responsibility for both. And a man should expect for a woman he marries to take some responsibility for his happiness too, thats how marriage works. If it is one sided you see an unhappy marriage.


----------



## Broken at 20

happyhusband0005 said:


> I might but that is not something I am afraid will happen. At the risk of coming off as over confident It would be a stretch to find higher value than me* statistically extremely unlikely maybe a .001% chance*. My wife knows what I will not put up with.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope if your wife cheats she's out. But again you running scared that this is a given, says a lot about your confidence to keep a woman happy.
> 
> If you were burned by an ex either she was a crappy woman to begin with and you would have got value from the RP stuff to help identify that or 2 you were not taking care of things.
> 
> The RP stuff assumes you either have to be a wimpy kiss up husband or a bad ass care only for myself guy. You can be a caretaker and protector and provider and demand you are taken care of as well. It's not one or the other. It's not doormat or a-hole. If you're either one, you're doing it wrong.


Holy Crap! You must be 6'6" at 240 lbs. of steel muscle! And at that percentage....man, 0.001%?! you gotta pull what, $1,500,000 a year! How did you get that? Ex NFL guy? Or Ex-athlete? (If it is NFL, do you offer virtual football coaching? Because I would be interested in that. What would be the rates? Send me a message if that's the case, and no, I am not kidding. You can view posts I've made on other threads and know I do play, and am serious. Would you take Venmo?)

I don't expect you to qualify that. But if that's true, you're in a completely different league than the VAST majority of men. If you are truly in the top 0.001% of men, you have access to a completely different level of women that the majority of men do.

I'm 28, and earn well above the average income where I live (not even accounting for age). I'm 6'3" and in good shape, and can cook. And a lot of the girls I see on dating apps don't even give me a second glance before a left. I don't encounter the women that you probably do (granted, this is probably due to my own choices in who I date).

But it's not fair to use your situation to judge other's.


We'll have to agree to disagree regarding the definition of a man. Because I refuse to believe that I can only become a man by simping up and providing for a wife and kids (that I don't want because I don't want kids), and no number of memes I post will change your mind.
Just like I am sure there is no way for you to put into words how much joy or contentment or excitement you get from holding your kids, or watching them grow up.
It's just two different worlds.


----------



## happyhusband0005

ccpowerslave said:


> There are many components of red pill but the self improvement aspect for the sake of it is good regardless of “game”.
> 
> As someone married over 20 years there is still value in so-called married red pill for me in that it reminds you that you need to run game on your wife in a similar way you would run game on her when she’s one of the plates you’re spinning.
> 
> It’s very easy to fall into the comfort trap where you achieve what society told you to do and then you think you’re done. You’re never done.


I think I do agree with this in a way. A good marriage is never complacent. You should both always be in a dating mentality where you're trying to be as attractive to each other as possible. My wife and I seduce each other every day.


----------



## Laurentium

happyhusband0005 said:


> It's not doormat or a-hole. If you're either one, you're doing it wrong.


I certainly agree with that. And it's not some half-way point between those either.


----------



## Laurentium

Broken at 20 said:


> I'm 28, and earn well above the average income where I live (not even accounting for age). I'm 6'3" and in good shape, and can cook. And a lot of the girls I see on dating apps don't even give me a second glance before a left.


For someone like you, dating apps are probably not helpful. Me too. For a variety of reasons, those apps are not useful for me. 



> We'll have to agree to disagree regarding the definition of a man.


Oh, there's never much point in debating the definitions of words.



> Because I refuse to believe that I can only become a man by providing for a wife and kids (that I don't want)


Sure. But as you play team sports, the concept of taking on responsibility for others obviously must mean something to you? You are a "team player"


----------



## happyhusband0005

Broken at 20 said:


> Holy Crap! You must be 6'6" at 240 lbs. of steel muscle! And at that percentage....man, 0.001%?! you gotta pull what, $1,500,000 a year! How did you get that? Ex NFL guy? Or Ex-athlete? (If it is NFL, do you offer virtual football coaching? Because I would be interested in that. What would be the rates? Send me a message if that's the case, and no, I am not kidding. You can view posts I've made on other threads and know I do play, and am serious. Would you take Venmo?)
> 
> I don't expect you to qualify that. But if that's true, you're in a completely different league than the VAST majority of men. If you are truly in the top 0.001% of men, you have access to a completely different level of women that the majority of men do.
> 
> I'm 28, and earn well above the average income where I live (not even accounting for age). I'm 6'3" and in good shape, and can cook. And a lot of the girls I see on dating apps don't even give me a second glance before a left. I don't encounter the women that you probably do (granted, this is probably due to my own choices in who I date).
> 
> But it's not fair to use your situation to judge other's.
> 
> 
> We'll have to agree to disagree regarding the definition of a man. Because I refuse to believe that I can only become a man by simping up and providing for a wife and kids (that I don't want because I don't want kids), and no number of memes I post will change your mind.
> Just like I am sure there is no way for you to put into words how much joy or contentment or excitement you get from holding your kids, or watching them grow up.
> It's just two different worlds.


Bud, you're 28, Have fun. I'm not judging and my man/boy comparison is not intended to portray boy as a negative really. 

Yes I make 7 figures, I am a good looking guy. At the same time though my wife makes enough that she is top 1% on her own. But none of that is what makes a person interesting. 

My advice at 28 you should not be relying on dating apps in a Covid free world. First people are not really honest on them, to use RP terminology they hide the red flags. Second if you're looking for a good woman, start by looking in a place that you are likely to find someone you have a lot in common with. If you are super into fitness try joining a crossfit gym or another type of fitness type place that has a good social aspect to it. Get out of the virtual and into the real. 

Be interesting, have life experiences that make you different. If you're trying to impress women I think you'll do better spending money on traveling the world rather than buying an expensive car. Real experience in life adds to you as a person stuff you own does not. Anyone can buy a car, not everyone can tell a story about scuba diving at night with whale sharks in the Gulf of Thailand. A lot of these RP guys worry too much about getting laid, so they end up creating a fake persona to game women. Well one day that will lead to pretty low self esteem as they realize they never got those women some other guy they were pretending to be did. Maybe guys are being unrealistic in the women they are going for, be self aware enough to know your league. 

There are a lot of good honest women out there, first you need to find them, then you need to attract them, then you need to keep them AND you have to be a guy they want to keep as well. 

Another point that if you are a RP consumer I would like to point out. A lot of the RP guys make it out that you need to show off the material side of things to get the women. Then they complain that women are gold diggers. Well if you're worried about gold diggers why are you starting with making above average income or flashing pics of your nice car in social media. You're setting yourself up to attract gold diggers. If I were single and dating I would lead with the things about me that makes me interesting aside from the materialistic, my life experience, my talents, my hobbies. Only after I was able to be certain she was a good woman would I give a clue about my financial status. 

If you're going to have game, have real game not fake game. And if you're going after crappy easy women don't complain about women being crappy and easy.


----------



## RebuildingMe

happyhusband0005 said:


> I might but that is not something I am afraid will happen. At the risk of coming off as over confident It would be a stretch to find higher value than me statistically extremely unlikely maybe a .001% chance. My wife knows what I will not put up with.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope if your wife cheats she's out. But again you running scared that this is a given, says a lot about your confidence to keep a woman happy.
> 
> If you were burned by an ex either she was a crappy woman to begin with and you would have got value from the RP stuff to help identify that or 2 you were not taking care of things.
> 
> The RP stuff assumes you either have to be a wimpy kiss up husband or a bad ass care only for myself guy. You can be a caretaker and protector and provider and demand you are taken care of as well. It's not one or the other. It's not doormat or a-hole. If you're either one, you're doing it wrong.


If you are in the top .001% of men, you made a big mistake getting married in the first place no matter how happy you think you are.


----------



## happyhusband0005

hubbyintrubby said:


> Well we all have our opinions and I respect yours. Thank you for sharing.


All I have is an opinion born out by my life experience. If my life experience was vastly different perhaps my opinion would be vastly different.


----------



## hubbyintrubby

happyhusband0005 said:


> All I have is an opinion born out by my life experience. If my life experience was vastly different perhaps my opinion would be vastly different.


I get it. We all see the world a little bit differently based on what we've already seen and experienced. You sound like you've been very fortunate and lucky in life. That is wonderful.


----------



## happyhusband0005

RebuildingMe said:


> If you are in the top .001% of men, you made a big mistake getting married in the first place no matter how happy you think you are.


I'm level of happiness is pretty high. But I'm also recognize I'm very fortunate.


----------



## happyhusband0005

hubbyintrubby said:


> I get it. We all see the world a little bit differently based on what we've already seen and experienced. You sound like you've been very fortunate and lucky in life. That is wonderful.


I just hate to see guys believe that all women are bad. Especially the younger guys. And I am concerned for long term happiness for the RP guys. Whats life going to be like at 65 or 75 or 85. It's like the guy who loves smoking, never wanted to quit he enjoyed it too much. What are his thoughts about that at 65 when he's dying of lung cancer. Live in the now but make long term decisions based on a long term outlook. 

But hey a guy in his twenties just out being a player having fun getting his fill, I see no shame in that game.


----------



## hubbyintrubby

happyhusband0005 said:


> I just hate to see guys believe that all women are bad. Especially the younger guys. And I am concerned for long term happiness for the RP guys. Whats life going to be like at 65 or 75 or 85. It's like the guy who loves smoking, never wanted to quit he enjoyed it too much. What are his thoughts about that at 65 when he's dying of lung cancer. Live in the now but make long term decisions based on a long term outlook.
> 
> But hey a guy in his twenties just out being a player having fun getting his fill, I see no shame in that game.


I think men who believe all women are bad are a lot more fringe than you think, and also deluded. Some women are bad and there are enough of them out there trying to take advantage of men that there has become a movement to deter that behavior. They want there to be enough awareness as to how a single man should operate in the modern dating world. You sound like you're as exempt from that as one could be, so it makes sense that you wouldn't quite get it, which is good for you.


----------



## Girl_power

Broken at 20 said:


> Holy Crap! You must be 6'6" at 240 lbs. of steel muscle! And at that percentage....man, 0.001%?! you gotta pull what, $1,500,000 a year! How did you get that? Ex NFL guy? Or Ex-athlete? (If it is NFL, do you offer virtual football coaching? Because I would be interested in that. What would be the rates? Send me a message if that's the case, and no, I am not kidding. You can view posts I've made on other threads and know I do play, and am serious. Would you take Venmo?)
> 
> I don't expect you to qualify that. But if that's true, you're in a completely different league than the VAST majority of men. If you are truly in the top 0.001% of men, you have access to a completely different level of women that the majority of men do.
> 
> I'm 28, and earn well above the average income where I live (not even accounting for age). I'm 6'3" and in good shape, and can cook. And a lot of the girls I see on dating apps don't even give me a second glance before a left. I don't encounter the women that you probably do (granted, this is probably due to my own choices in who I date).
> 
> But it's not fair to use your situation to judge other's.
> 
> 
> We'll have to agree to disagree regarding the definition of a man. Because I refuse to believe that I can only become a man by simping up and providing for a wife and kids (that I don't want because I don't want kids), and no number of memes I post will change your mind.
> Just like I am sure there is no way for you to put into words how much joy or contentment or excitement you get from holding your kids, or watching them grow up.
> It's just two different worlds.




Listen, I just read the majority of your previous threads and I see you have had a really hard difficult life. I understand why your angry. But your taking it out on women. 

It’s sad that you view being a father/husband as simping up. 

At the end of the day do what makes you happy. But remember there are repercussions to your actions. Sometimes we need to man up and women up and do the right thing. It’s sad you think of this as simping up. 

Your parents both cheated and betrayed each other and you. You don’t have a good foundation for what family really is. Yes these things happen: but it’s the minority not the rule.


----------



## SpinyNorman

happyhusband0005 said:


> Yes that wording makes sense. But would you agree that a MAN takes the responsibility.


I'd agree if he incurs a responsibility, he should live up to it. 

But I feel if he'd rather not take on marriage or parenthood and doesn't, that is his prerogative.

It's also his prerogative to avoid a marriage that doesn't meet his terms, IMO. And replacing "he" w/ "she" doesn't change my opinion in any of the above.


----------



## happyhusband0005

Yes, all people should avoid marriage that don't meet their terms and expectations. That is step #1 to a good marriage. If you have things you're unhappy with before you're married, well you're probably in for a world of hurt.


----------



## manowar

happyhusband0005 said:


> You can be a caretaker and protector and provider and demand you are taken care of as well. It's not one or the other. It's not doormat or a-hole. If you're either one, you're doing it wrong.


this conversation is getting off track. Happy husband. the above is a fair statement and one i agree with. I don't think you comprehend what the RP is at its core. its not about guys being tough guys living a self centered lifestyle. RP is primarily about enlightening men to female nature. Its psychological at its heart. Men have been told a pack of lies from birth evidenced by movies (the romantic comedy comes to mind), culture, religion, education, television about women. Culture portrays an idealized view of female nature with the man behaving in a manner that corresponds to this idealized (fictional) view. hence you get the BP nice guy. this is the starting place where these BP guys run into trouble. they don't understand the program. It has nothing to do with being responsible. In fact, many women find the irresponsible guy highly attractive and thats the guy that gets the action, while the responsible nice guy is getting set up for the LTR. Alpha phucks/Beta bucks. many women don't want anything to do with these nice guys when they are in their 20s who all of a sudden become more appealing when they hit their 30s. The nice guy of course thinks he's won out and is full steam ahead into marriage because he's now found his soul mate. The woman often sees this dynamic with a different spin. What kind of material life can nice guy provide.

this site is full of these clueless guys getting run over by their soul mates, best friend whatever only to find out that the wife had a bf on the side. time after time the nice guy has zero comprehension of female nature. Some of the RP principles are women don't love us the way we love them, hypergamy, be a leader, you cant put her on the pedestal because she'll eventually resent you. Sure some of the RP is over the top. But its main message is on the money.


----------



## happyhusband0005

manowar said:


> this conversation is getting off track. Happy husband. the above is a fair statement and one i agree with. I don't think you comprehend what the RP is at its core. its not about guys being tough guys living a self centered lifestyle. RP is primarily about enlightening men to female nature. Its psychological at its heart. Men have been told a pack of lies from birth evidenced by movies (the romantic comedy comes to mind), culture, religion, education, television about women. Culture portrays an idealized view of female nature with the man behaving in a manner that corresponds to this idealized (fictional) view. hence you get the BP nice guy. this is the starting place where these BP guys run into trouble. they don't understand the program. It has nothing to do with being responsible. In fact, many women find the irresponsible guy highly attractive and thats the guy that gets the action, while the responsible nice guy is getting set up for the LTR. Alpha phucks/Beta bucks. many women don't want anything to do with these nice guys when they are in their 20s who all of a sudden become more appealing when they hit their 30s. The nice guy of course thinks he's won out and is full steam ahead into marriage because he's now found his soul mate. The woman often sees this dynamic with a different spin. What kind of material life can nice guy provide.
> 
> this site is full of these clueless guys getting run over by their soul mates, best friend whatever only to find out that the wife had a bf on the side. time after time the nice guy has zero comprehension of female nature. Some of the RP principles are women don't love us the way we love them, hypergamy, be a leader, you cant put her on the pedestal because she'll eventually resent you. Sure some of the RP is over the top. But its main message is on the money.


So I guess I would ask for a concise explanation of female nature as espoused by these guys. If it is "what kind of material life can a guy provide" then I'm just an anomaly because I have always been attracted to the tough independent self made woman. They are much more of a challenge than the gold digger and WAY WAY WAY more interesting. My wife doesn't out earn me but she out earns the vast majority of men. 

Here's my problem with the Richard Coopers of the world. They sell their stuff based on their experience of getting screwed over by women. They DON'T talk about how they failed themselves, it was all her fault. So they just basically take the approach screw them before they screw you. Well boys just don't put yourself in a situation to get screwed. Keep your woman interested, never stop growing as a man. Stay interesting, stay attractive, keep upping the bar for yourself. 

Humans are driven by primal instincts so yes women are attracted to a man who can provide, they are attracted to the primal hunter, they are attracted to strength and confidence. They also don't like boring guess what NOBODY LIKE BORING, I don't, you don't. Is this not basic common sense we learned in middle school? 

So Cooper's stuff does have some benefit but know what you're getting. This guys is not being 100% truthful with you. For example I have a history in the world of body building, and some of his pics in instagram have clear demonstration of signs that he is taking more than your standard TRT. He is taking other compounds. There are clear signs anyone who has seen it enough can easily spot that there are anabolics involved. Not put on 30lbs of muscle stuff but cut down harden the muscle stuff. Just tell the guys your warning against fake women the 100% truth. Don't give advice and say eat well sleep well and lift heavy **** and leave out the Winstrol or Trenbolone. Tell guys the stuff you did that contributed to your wife leaving (maybe he does I didn't look that hard). Don't pretend you did nothing to contribute. Admitting how you failed makes you more authentic, but I couldn't find anything where he discussed it. 

Here's my advice..

1. There are crappy women just like there are crappy guys.
2. Relationships require work to keep them alive and growing.
3. Know your league, you're not going to marry a supermodel (you wouldn't be happy anyway most of them are dumb and boring)
4. Demand the respect you deserve. Emphasis on deserve, you earn respect, you're not entitled to it because of your penis. 
5. PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR WOMAN. 
6. Be as successful as you can be. Don't expect to get a super fantastic women if you have limited intelligence, talent, and work ethic. So again know your league. 

If your goal is just to bang the hottest women you possibly can then go for it. Pretend all you want to gain the short term glory. If you didn't have to fake it you wouldn't be in need of the help in the first place. 

And the whole thing about the nice guy getting screwed is 100% true, but again common sense. You wouldn't respect a person who continuously kissed you butt why do you think it will work for you. But it also doesn't mean you have to be a self centered/selfish prick. It doesn't mean you have to play games and put a woman through childish test scenarios to see if she will serve you properly. Refer to #4 above. 

Be real, if that fails, be better but keep being real.


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## Broken at 20

I didn't read all the other replies because it's new years. So maybe I was drinking. 


Girl_power said:


> Listen, I just read the majority of your previous threads and I see you have had a really hard difficult life. I understand why your angry. But your taking it out on women.


You really read my story? 

The one where my father asked me to beg my mother to give him a second chance before she divorced him? 
The one where he asked me to be his best man in a wedding I didn't understand? 
The one where my mother all but disowned me? Along with her parents? And I was thrown out by the family I tried to retain? 
The one where I found out my mother had lied to my father, and that I was the disgusting product of an affair and should've been stoned? The one where I spent Christmas drunk or hungover in a Church parking lot? 
The one where my alcoholism destroyed any relationship I had? 
The one where my sister tracked me down, begging me to know why I cut her out of my life? 
The one where I learned my mom had money troubles, and I offered her a dinner only to embarrass her in public? 
The one where I learned the man who raised me had some health issues? And his last words to me were "I will forget you."? 
The one where his wife caught me in an elevator and belitted me to the point of me retreating to my car and breaking down and crying at 28? 
The one where he said he wished I hadn't contacted him. That I had let him forget me despite what he said? 

Just curious. 
Because even I wouldn't read that story. Stories should have happy endings. I'm like the monsters in the stories. I'm the villain. I don't get the happy story. I don't deserve it. 


> It’s sad that you view being a father/husband as simping up.
> 
> At the end of the day do what makes you happy. But remember there are repercussions to your actions. Sometimes we need to man up and women up and do the right thing. It’s sad you think of this as simping up.
> 
> Your parents both cheated and betrayed each other and you. You don’t have a good foundation for what family really is. Yes these things happen: but it’s the minority not the rule.


I never claimed to be a good person. I'm not. I'm some kind of disgusting monster. I hate what I am. I'm somebody that should've never existed. I was never wanted. I was merely the glue of a dysfunctional marriage that stopped it from falling apart for about 20 years. 

I hate everyone equally. Male or female.

Did anyone ever ask me how I felt during my parents divorce? No. I was told to man up for my mother. 
Did my teacher at business school, when I broke down in her office crying while turning in a project, ask me very much. No. 
Did the girl I discuss my problems with talk with me about them in college? No. She banged some muscled jerk that crashed her car. 
Did my cousins ask me much at my dad's wedding? No, they told me I did a good job. 
Did the forum tell me I did a good job regarding my dad's wedding? No. They told me I was an idiot (my words) doing the wrong thing. 
Did my dad ask me much when we found out I wasn't his. No. He told me he was going to forget me. 
Did my mother ever deal with the fact I am some disgusting product? No. 

No one has ever asked me how I felt since I was 19. No one cared how I felt. No one considered me. Man or women. I'm the after thought. I'm the collateral damage. I'm the creature that people don't want to look in the eyes. I'm the uncomfortable truth about affairs and a lot of other things. 

That's why I sought out the red pill. 
I have seen the absolute worst of everything for both sexes. As a man, I naturally gravitate towards the Red pill. If I was female, who knows where I'd be. 

What was your question anyway?


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## OnTheFly

manowar said:


> RP is primarily about enlightening men to female nature.


In a nutshell, yes.

George Bruno is worth giving a listen to also.


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## OnTheFly

Broken at 20 said:


> You really read my story?
> 
> The one where my......


That's a lot for one plate, if I went through half of that I'm not sure I would be able to write coherently on the internet.

I've got nothing to add or offer you, except maybe suggesting reading the Gospel of John during a quiet moment.


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## RebuildingMe

Broken at 20 said:


> I didn't read all the other replies because it's new years. So maybe I was drinking.
> 
> You really read my story?
> 
> The one where my father asked me to beg my mother to give him a second chance before she divorced him?
> The one where he asked me to be his best man in a wedding I didn't understand?
> The one where my mother all but disowned me? Along with her parents? And I was thrown out by the family I tried to retain?
> The one where I found out my mother had lied to my father, and that I was the disgusting product of an affair and should've been stoned? The one where I spent Christmas drunk or hungover in a Church parking lot?
> The one where my alcoholism destroyed any relationship I had?
> The one where my sister tracked me down, begging me to know why I cut her out of my life?
> The one where I learned my mom had money troubles, and I offered her a dinner only to embarrass her in public?
> The one where I learned the man who raised me had some health issues? And his last words to me were "I will forget you."?
> The one where his wife caught me in an elevator and belitted me to the point of me retreating to my car and breaking down and crying at 28?
> The one where he said he wished I hadn't contacted him. That I had let him forget me despite what he said?
> 
> Just curious.
> Because even I wouldn't read that story. Stories should have happy endings. I'm like the monsters in the stories. I'm the villain. I don't get the happy story. I don't deserve it.
> 
> I never claimed to be a good person. I'm not. I'm some kind of disgusting monster. I hate what I am. I'm somebody that should've never existed. I was never wanted. I was merely the glue of a dysfunctional marriage that stopped it from falling apart for about 20 years.
> 
> I hate everyone equally. Male or female.
> 
> Did anyone ever ask me how I felt during my parents divorce? No. I was told to man up for my mother.
> Did my teacher at business school, when I broke down in her office crying while turning in a project, ask me very much. No.
> Did the girl I discuss my problems with talk with me about them in college? No. She banged some muscled jerk that crashed her car.
> Did my cousins ask me much at my dad's wedding? No, they told me I did a good job.
> Did the forum tell me I did a good job regarding my dad's wedding? No. They told me I was an idiot (my words) doing the wrong thing.
> Did my dad ask me much when we found out I wasn't his. No. He told me he was going to forget me.
> Did my mother ever deal with the fact I am some disgusting product? No.
> 
> No one has ever asked me how I felt since I was 19. No one cared how I felt. No one considered me. Man or women. I'm the after thought. I'm the collateral damage. I'm the creature that people don't want to look in the eyes. I'm the uncomfortable truth about affairs and a lot of other things.
> 
> That's why I sought out the red pill.
> I have seen the absolute worst of everything for both sexes. As a man, I naturally gravitate towards the Red pill. If I was female, who knows where I'd be.
> 
> What was your question anyway?


My brother, someday we need to sit down and have a beer. We have some stories to tell each other. Happy new year buddy!


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## manowar

happy husband -- you make some good points.. you mentioned common sense. a lot of these nice guys don't even have basic common sense when it comes to the dating/marriage world. this is where the fundamental principles of RP are valuable. read some of the stories in the infidelity section and you'll see what i mean. Id say that at least 85% of cheated on men are some form of BP worldview nice guy.

my 2 cents on cooper is that i think he's pretty good. he's about the only one i watch once in a while. i dont watch a lot of the RP material. Rollo is very good for the newbie but he's become repetitive, pedantic and a bit of a windbag. Cooper is good because his vids are short, to the point, and he knows what he's talking about. Cooper is upfront. He basically stated that he had a delusion BP worldview at the time of his divorce and that Rollo's material woke him up to female nature. he also said that after his marriage he got involved with a single mother that corroborated the RP view for him.

Remember the BP narrative is drilled into us. Its almost impossible not to have. especially for young men entering the dating world. many alphas have this blue pill vision of dating and marriage as well. this is where the RP wake up call has its greatest value. RP is really about female nature. it stresses that women are not what we think they are. Its just the way it is. Some guys can't handle the message. that's ok. But for anyone who who has had signifigant experience dealing with the fairer sex , its pretty hard to deny.


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## RebuildingMe

I just ordered his book and started reading last night. Easy read. Most of what I’ve heard on his channel. I like the references to Brad Thundercock, Kevin from sales and Tom from accounting, as well as “Karen”. Forward written by Rollo.


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## Girl_power

Broken at 20 said:


> I didn't read all the other replies because it's new years. So maybe I was drinking.
> 
> You really read my story?
> 
> The one where my father asked me to beg my mother to give him a second chance before she divorced him?
> The one where he asked me to be his best man in a wedding I didn't understand?
> The one where my mother all but disowned me? Along with her parents? And I was thrown out by the family I tried to retain?
> The one where I found out my mother had lied to my father, and that I was the disgusting product of an affair and should've been stoned? The one where I spent Christmas drunk or hungover in a Church parking lot?
> The one where my alcoholism destroyed any relationship I had?
> The one where my sister tracked me down, begging me to know why I cut her out of my life?
> The one where I learned my mom had money troubles, and I offered her a dinner only to embarrass her in public?
> The one where I learned the man who raised me had some health issues? And his last words to me were "I will forget you."?
> The one where his wife caught me in an elevator and belitted me to the point of me retreating to my car and breaking down and crying at 28?
> The one where he said he wished I hadn't contacted him. That I had let him forget me despite what he said?
> 
> Just curious.
> Because even I wouldn't read that story. Stories should have happy endings. I'm like the monsters in the stories. I'm the villain. I don't get the happy story. I don't deserve it.
> 
> I never claimed to be a good person. I'm not. I'm some kind of disgusting monster. I hate what I am. I'm somebody that should've never existed. I was never wanted. I was merely the glue of a dysfunctional marriage that stopped it from falling apart for about 20 years.
> 
> I hate everyone equally. Male or female.
> 
> Did anyone ever ask me how I felt during my parents divorce? No. I was told to man up for my mother.
> Did my teacher at business school, when I broke down in her office crying while turning in a project, ask me very much. No.
> Did the girl I discuss my problems with talk with me about them in college? No. She banged some muscled jerk that crashed her car.
> Did my cousins ask me much at my dad's wedding? No, they told me I did a good job.
> Did the forum tell me I did a good job regarding my dad's wedding? No. They told me I was an idiot (my words) doing the wrong thing.
> Did my dad ask me much when we found out I wasn't his. No. He told me he was going to forget me.
> Did my mother ever deal with the fact I am some disgusting product? No.
> 
> No one has ever asked me how I felt since I was 19. No one cared how I felt. No one considered me. Man or women. I'm the after thought. I'm the collateral damage. I'm the creature that people don't want to look in the eyes. I'm the uncomfortable truth about affairs and a lot of other things.
> 
> That's why I sought out the red pill.
> I have seen the absolute worst of everything for both sexes. As a man, I naturally gravitate towards the Red pill. If I was female, who knows where I'd be.
> 
> What was your question anyway?


You gravitated to RP because your angry, and they are an angry group and they made you feel at home.


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## Broken at 20

RebuildingMe said:


> My brother, someday we need to sit down and have a beer. We have some stories to tell each other. Happy new year buddy!


I generally don't talk about myself or my past. Rarely with friends, NEVER with women, and it's going to take a lot more than beer to tell any of those stories. But if you're buying the first round, I wouldn't say no. Don't want to be rude and refuse a free drink! 



RebuildingMe said:


> I just ordered his book and started reading last night. Easy read. Most of what I’ve heard on his channel. I like the references to Brad Thundercock, Kevin from sales and Tom from accounting, as well as “Karen”. Forward written by Rollo.


Out of curiosity, what are the qualities of Tom from accounting?



Girl_power said:


> You gravitated to RP because your angry, and they are an angry group and they made you feel at home.


I'm mentally defective and emotionally scarred, with a graveyard's worth of skeletons hiding in my closet. Personally, given my experiences, I'm pretty happy with myself. Things could've gone off the rails and destroyed my life. But they didn't.
And I choose to avoid marriage and certain kinds of women in my dating life because I know the statistics regarding marriage, and more importantly, the statistics regarding divorce. And I don't want/like kids.
To some people, I'm sure that makes me sound angry. And I'll probably always get the "Who damaged you?" (my 3 parents) or "You're just jaded" (being the illegitimate product of an affair, I imagine, tends to jade one) or the "You'll change your mind as you get older" (yeah, my opinions have changed, I judge people much harsher now).

I also don't look at the reddit red pill forums. I have no idea what they do, discuss, anything. But I have heard that many of the posters within that community are angry. I don't seek out the angrier elements either. In an earlier post I even said I stopped listening to Richard Cooper because he just seemed angry to me and I didn't see him giving much in terms of ways to improve one's self.
The guys I listen to help with self-improvement, and is a motivating factor for me.


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## RebuildingMe

Broken at 20 said:


> Out of curiosity, what are the qualities of Tom from accounting?


Kevin and Tom are interchangeable. They are the guys at the office that the hypergamous wife gives a closer look to while her beta husband is at home putting up a shelf for the fourth time to try a please her.

Chad Thundercock is the alpha she met in the bar while hanging out with her friend “Karen”.


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## Luminous

Girl_power said:


> You gravitated to RP because your angry, and they are an angry group and they made you feel at home.


There might be a bit of a misunderstanding of how you are perceiving it Girl Power.

Yes, some are angry, and their grievances may be justified, but painting a whole group of people with the same brush would be the equivalent of a guy conveying all feminists are the same of what you are saying. It doesn't reflect or represent the majority.


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## Girl_power

Luminous said:


> There might be a bit of a misunderstanding of how you are perceiving it Girl Power.
> 
> Yes, some are angry, and their grievances may be justified, but painting a whole group of people with the same brush would be the equivalent of a guy conveying all feminists are the same of what you are saying. It doesn't reflect or represent the majority.


I know. There are a lot of angry people in both these groups. Not all of them are. I am a feminist and I’m not angry so I get it.


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## RebuildingMe

Girl_power said:


> I know. There are a lot of angry people in both these groups. Not all of them are. I am a feminist and I’m not angry so I get it.


Ugh...Feminist, red flag #2!!!


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## Girl_power

RebuildingMe said:


> Ugh...Feminist, red flag #2!!!


Hahaha. Just like it would be a red flag if a guy I was dating said he was into RP.


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## Mr. Nail

Speaking in the men's clubhouse, on a topic closely related to the current threadjack:
It's not that I reject all women because some women have radical ideas about gender. No, it's more that I reject the entire society that presumes that these radical Ideas are acceptable. All ya'all.


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## RebuildingMe

Mr. Nail said:


> Speaking in the men's clubhouse, on a topic closely related to the current threadjack:
> It's not that I reject all women because some women have radical ideas about gender. No, it's more that I reject the entire society that presumes that these radical Ideas are acceptable. All ya'all.


If you rejected all women, you’d be black pilled or MGTOW. The RP premise is to educate yourself and protect yourself as a man in today’s feminist world. Know the rules have changed, so play by the new set of rules. Luckily, all women are not feminists. They are easy to spot on a first date or initial conversation.


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## RebuildingMe

BTW, it took me just two days to read his book. The last chapter dealt with divorce in the western world and why many men are opting out of marriage and cohabitation. It’s not the woman’s fault, the blame lies with the state government’s and their need to transfer assets from the husband to the wife. Part of those assets are the children. I so want to send a copy of this chapter to our judge prior to the divorce hearing, lol. The stats cited are alarming. Over 80% of court custody decisions go in mommy’s favor. Coincidentally, 80% of divorces are started by the wife.


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## hubbyintrubby

RebuildingMe said:


> BTW, it took me just two days to read his book. The last chapter dealt with divorce in the western world and why many men are opting out of marriage and cohabitation. It’s not the woman’s fault, the blame lies with the state government’s and their need to transfer assets from the husband to the wife. Part of those assets are the children. I so want to send a copy of this chapter to our judge prior to the divorce hearing, lol. The stats cited are alarming. Over 80% of court custody decisions go in mommy’s favor. Coincidentally, 80% of divorces are started by the wife.


Honestly and realistically, that should make any man who has even an inkling of marriage stop and double think, despite how happy they think they are.


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## Mr. Nail

Black pill is new to me. All I know is that every day brings a new rant to convince me that I'm not welcome.


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## RebuildingMe

hubbyintrubby said:


> Honestly and realistically, that should make any man who has even an inkling of marriage stop and double think, despite how happy they think they are.


Right? If I only knew then what I know now. I’m glad this information is out there for the next generation, my son included.


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## hubbyintrubby

RebuildingMe said:


> Right? If I only knew then what I know now. I’m glad this information is out there for the next generation, my son included.


Ditto, to a T.


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## RebuildingMe

Mr. Nail said:


> Black pill is new to me. All I know is that every day brings a new rant to convince me that I'm not welcome.


Black pill are incels that removed themselves from the game completely. Celibate men who have withdrawn from society and blame others, mostly women, for their misfortune. They can’t complete on a sexual level, and therefore no longer even try. They have a lot of hate and rage towards society. Whereas RP men put themselves first and chase excellence and not women, black pilled men have chosen to take their bat and ball and go home.


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## Al_Bundy

Kevin Samuels has been my fav lately. Love Rich, him and all the Rule Zero guys are must listen to content. Look up Rule Zero on youtube, great group of guys. The Red Pill gets a lot of ****, but that's because it exposes some of the not so flattering truths about the sexes and life. Better to know the dark truth than to believe in a pretty lie.


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## dadstartingover

My take on the whole "red pill" thing: *https://dadstartingover.com/mgtow-incels-red-pill-oh-my/*


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## pastasauce79

RebuildingMe said:


> Luckily, all women are not feminists. They are easy to spot on a first date or initial conversation.


What are feminist behaviors to spot on a first date? 

I'm a female confused with all this talk about feminism, or anti- feminism!


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## Al_Bundy

pastasauce79 said:


> What are feminist behaviors to spot on a first date?
> 
> I'm a female confused with all this talk about feminism, or anti- feminism!


Just be feminine. I'm not saying be less or anything like that. It's just that a lot of feminists lean into masculine traits. Take the whole "alpha female" thing where they talk about their careers, how powerful they are, etc.... those are traits that are generally attractive to women, not men.


----------

