# Need some help (long)



## LittleLost (Sep 6, 2009)

Here is my situation...my wife and I have been married for 8 years, have two kids. At one point in the past, I had an affair, we separated for a while, each seeing other people, but we got back together to try and make things work, and for the most part things have been ok. Due to money constraints, we lived in the small town where I grew up, a few of my friends still around, who she got to know and like, but all of her old friends were far away. Now we have moved to the big city, and she has reconnected with an old ex boyfriend. They were friends both before and after their relationship, which she has told me they ended because they were 'spectacularly bad' together, though I get the idea that he would have liked to have tried to make things work. Let me give some background on this situation. My first exposure to T___ was in an argument we had a few months after we started dating, where she at one point yelled at me that she wished she was still dating him instead of me. Flash forward to about 6 months ago, where I see some texts on my wife's phone of T___ asking for some pictures of her 'new bod', as she had just spent the last few months exercising hard. Her reply to this was that he had always been interested in photography and had lots of pictures of all his friends, though when I ask why none of the many pictures of herself she had posted on her MySpace page would do, she had no answer. This is followed by her texting him how I have a 'complex' about him. (Yes, I was looking at her phone when I could; wrong, perhaps, but by this time I was getting concerned.) Now flash forward to a week ago, where he actually visits us at our new apartment. Keep in mind that we have to live very frugally, as she is going to grad school full time and my job doesn't pay a lot. We've planned to go out to dinner to celebrate my new job, the ONLY time we've gone out to dinner in like three months, and of course since T___ is in town, he goes with us. Ok, he seems like a nice guy, although they spend most of the evening catching up and talking about people I've never met and parties I've never gone to, so I'm a little left out of things. But I grit my teeth, smile and nod. But my wife does know that I'm a little uncomfortable with the situation (yeah, hanging with a wife's ex is always top of the list of fun things to do, right?), and she keeps telling me that they're just old friends, he's always been there for her, nothing is going on. So now it's three days ago, and on her Facebook are some tagged pictures of her, from his page, taken in our apartment, from a day/evening I was at work. First I've heard of him being back there. (He doesn't live in our town, he lives two hours away.) Totally innocent pictures, my six year old daughter was there and in several. I don't even confront her about it, I try to take the high ground, but yes I do apparently act like something is bothering me, so she confronts me about it. Well, the s__ hits the fan. He was just in town visiting some other friends, stopped by to say hi, she didn't tell me about it because she knew I would get upset, I'm trying to control who she sees, hasn't gotten to see him in ten years, she misses some of the things she used to get to do, etc. So it comes down to her telling me that she wants her own interests and life and that I should do the same, that we don't have to be joined at the hip, we're two different people. And that T___ (an amateur filmmaker) is making an amateur horror movie over the three day weekend with some of her old friends and wants her to come out and be a part of it. My work schedule is constant and set, and it includes working the weekend, so I obviously can't go. But she's basically told me that I'm a selfish jerk for not wanting her to hang out with her old friends and that I'm being paranoid and jealous for no other reason that since I once cheated I project that on her. She's taking our daughter with her, but I'm basically caving to her going to stay with her ex boyfriend for a three day weekend. Am I just being a paranoid jerk, or should I really be concerned? As far as she's concerned, I'm being petty for even *acting* like it bothers me. And now she has decided we should try a trial separation. She says she is not interested in seeing or being with anyone right now, and would like a month to think things over. As money and care for our children is tough right now, we are still living in the same apartment; I sleep in the living room and have just told her that I will give her the space she thinks she needs. A big thing is that she has thought that I have been trying to control who she gets to hang out and be friends with, that I cut her off from all her old friends. But I've only ever had a problem with three people in her past, one being the guy she was seeing during our first separation, who would * not * take a hint when we were back together, the second being a female friend of my wife who was also the best friend of guy #1 and his big supporter, and this T___ guy who she says she has always loved as a 'dear friend' and feels guilty to this day how she broke up with him (which she specifically said to me during our talk last night). But she has generalized my attitudes toward these three instances to so much of her life that she thinks I have cut her off from everything she ever cared about. I actually broke down and wept when she told me that one of her friends actually gave her a card to an abuse center because it seemed like I was purposefully isolating her. I was constantly telling her to go do karaoke like she used to, or go to the after work breakfasts the other nurses on her shift would take before coming home. But she tells me "Oh, you'd just get that look, so I'd drop it", even though at the time she would always tell me that we couldn't afford it or she just didn't have time. It's killing me that this is what she thought I was trying to do with her, even without what is going on right now. She would just assume that I wanted her to do nothing with anyone but me and my own friends, and any circumstances then that prevented her from doing anything socially somehow are due to my behavior. I love my wife, I always loved to hear her sing and see her happy; I even asked her how many women does she think would have no problem with their husbands being in close contact with a) the woman they were with during a separation, b)that woman's best male friend who constantly talks him up, or c) an ex who is obviously romantically inclined that he 'thinks the world of'. She is still going to visit her friends, T___ included, this weekend, and I have told her that I trust her, which I do. It is, from what I have been told, a house warming/movie making party, at T___ and his two roommates' house, where several more people will be staying for the weekend. I'm just so afraid that she will associate the fun time of seeing all her old friends again along with not having anything to do with me, and it will make her decision at the end of a month easier. I tried suggesting marriage counseling, which she seemed to agree to look into, but I don't know if it will happen. I don't know what to do, I don't want to lose her. I have not heard from her nor tried to contact her, as I told her I would give her space. So I have spent the weekend looking up marriage advice, I've contacted her school myself and gotten the counseling information, and I've made lists of behaviours I need to change, things I need from her, and a place for her to write a list of things she needs from me. I'm just so scared.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

well, that's a lot. the only thing that raised a red flag for me was that her friend told her she was being abused and that she was isolating herself. that tells me that you may be a bit controlling. im not saying that you are, obviously i have no clue, but usually when friends start to comment on the isolation factor it means something is going on. it may not be your fault, but it means she is isolating herself. it does sound like your wife is rebelling against you.

and you also said you trusted her. you dont trust her. you checked on her phone. i dont blame you, i wouldnt trust her either, just dont say you do when you are snooping around, etc.

you two have a complicated dynamic, IMO. you cheated, then you separate and see other people, then come back together. it seems your boundaries in monogamy are very lucid. im curious if it would bother you that she cheated as long as she came back.


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## LittleLost (Sep 6, 2009)

You are right, I do have trust issues and have for a while. In my previous three relationships, each time the girl I was dating (one of which we had actually been considering marriage) ended up leaving me for a male friend that I hadn't considered any kind of threat. So I will be the first to admit I am a little gunshy. But as for the isolation part, I only ever had a problem with the one guy. For the past five years she has been either in nursing school, working full time as a nurse (on the overnight shift), or now being a grad student at medical school. So there has never been a lot of time, and it actually was a point of friction that I wanted us to go out more but we couldn't because she was either working, studying, or just exhausted because of work/school. And money was always tight. So our 'date nights' usually consisted of sitting on the couch watching a movie together (she doesn't like going to theaters because of other people(!) and hates large crowds). 

The separation was for a few months, I was traveling on my job for the duration, and she was talking to a mutual acquaintance of ours by phone who lived several hours away, and would occasionally make car trips to see him. I also was carrying on a phone relationship with the woman I had an affair with, and manage to see her for about a week period. But when my trip was over, I went home and we talked about things and agreed to try to patch things up, contingent that both of us cut off all contact with the other persons. I did so, and though a couple of times I have received a short email or post from this other woman, I have deleted them and never replied. On the other hand, my wife has also received a couple of emails and even calls from her person, which she actually replied to because she felt badly how she cut him off so suddenly, and felt she had to talk to him to explain why she couldn't talk to him anymore. This happened a little over a year ago, and the separation was five and a half years ago. I try to understand her point of view, but, again, it has left me a little gunshy.


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## LittleLost (Sep 6, 2009)

Quick update: well, she's not home yet, so I still don't know what she's thinking. But I talked to an old friend of mine who actually knew both of them before he knew me, and he told me that he actually ended his friendship with T__ because T___ was very much a manipulator and got a sense of power in causing issues in other couples' relationships. But of course I can't tell her this, because she will immediately get defensive about him and shut me out. But I am going to stop concentrating on him and instead concentrate on the two of us. If he is going to try and work his way into our lives, I am not going to make it easy for him, I am going to work on my own problems, ask her what she needs from me, and do my best to become who I need to be for her, our kids, and myself.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

LittleLost said:


> But I am going to stop concentrating on him and instead concentrate on the two of us. If he is going to try and work his way into our lives, I am not going to make it easy for him, I am going to work on my own problems, ask her what she needs from me, and do my best to become who I need to be for her, our kids, and myself.


i think thats a good approach. i think it was smart of you not to use what you know about 'T' to try and convince her to leave him.


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## LittleLost (Sep 6, 2009)

Update: I am 99% sure that there is nothing physical going on, and she says she doesn't want to be with anybody right now. But it was 10 pm last night and I still had not heard from her, and our daughter has school today, so I called her celphone to make sure everything was ok. She said she was driving back, and I made the mistake of asking "Are we ok?" She has so much bitterness and anger towards me. She has said that she will call and set up an appointment with a counselor but that she doesn't think it will help. 
She says that she has felt like a hermit for a long time because we only did things with my friends or just us. What I don't understand is that we lived in a city that was hours away from any of her old friends, and money was tight, so it wasn't exactly feasible. There was one time that we were invited to a Halloween party, at her friends' house, but I didn't act thrilled because it was T___'s house and I wasn't able to go, so she dropped it. Tonight I asked why didn't we go out with some of her schoolmates, who apparently meet once a week for margaritas. She says she doesn't really want to associate with them, she has nothing in common. And she doesn't want to go out with just me because money is tight and she doesn't want to be around a bunch of strangers anyway. 
So the only thing that will make her happy is to drive the two and a half hours to go be with this group of friends, without me. I am doing my best to try and change myself, but I can't bring up any of the issues I believe are affecting things on her side without pushing her away more. Maybe it will be easier to bring them up under counseling. This is tearing me apart, I have eaten one solid meal since last Wednesday, and I sleep maybe three hours a night, with a sleep aid. I'm spiralling into a deep depression, and I know that will not help things but if I'm not allowed to talk to her then how are we supposed to try and get back to where we were?


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## LittleLost (Sep 6, 2009)

Well, things seemed to have reached at least a plateau. I've had the last two days off, good thing, and I've done a lot of thinking and soul searching. After I dropped my daughter off at school, I just drove around to random churches until I found one with someone there to talk to, and I just broke down and told him everything, just desperately needed someone to talk to. We talked, he told me he thought she still loved me and was just trying to work things out in her mind, but that things would take time and pushing wouldn't help anything.

So when she got home, I was playing video games with my daughter, trying to have a good time. I told her that I understood she needed space and that unless we were in the counseling office or doing something for the counseling, I would not bring things up, and I would not be moping around upset and mad. And I told her that although I might not be sitting around comatose and trying to talk to her about us, I still loved her very much and would be here if she wanted to talk. 

I think that we've reached a livable truce at the moment. I talk to her about just household and other matters, nothing deep, and I make sure I tell her I love her every morning and evening, which she returns. I am totally steering clear of the whole T___ situation; I do not think she has done anything with him, my main worry is that he is trying to be her 'Jiminy Cricket' in this situation, and not for the better, and I fight the urge to ask if she is talking a lot to him. But she did say that she isn't talking to anyone about this, and while I think she would feel better if she did, at least I know she's not talking to him. But an old friend of ours has told me she's going to ask my wife to go on a girl's night out sometime in the next few days, which I think will help her a lot. 

And I have been working on changing my behaviors and attitudes, and I really think I can do it. Does anyone here have an opinion on the book "Divorce Busters"? I picked it up yesterday and have been reading it, and to me it seems a play by play of a lot of our problems...opinions? 

I love her, and I am not going to give up on us when I have the chance.


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## LittleLost (Sep 6, 2009)

Another update. Was feeling really low yesterday all day at work, stopped off on the way home for a sixpack, walked in the door and proceeded to start trying to make the constant conversation in my head go away. My wife comes out of her room to put her laundry in the dryer and sees me sitting there with a beer, asks me if I'm ok, I tell her I just was trying to relax, that it had been a long day. She sits down across from me...and we talk. Really talk. We got a lot of stuff out of the way, she admitted that while she still feels broken inside and doesn't know how she can come back, she still loves me and sees how I've started changing for the better. I tell her that I've been examining myself and working thru past issues and things that she's needed that I didn't give her. 
I tell her that a couple of days ago I emailed T__ and said to him that it was nothing personal, I just didn't know him, and he had just emailed me back and said that things were just on the friend level, and he was constantly bugging my wife to hook him up with one of those hot nursing students she goes to school with, and he invited me to come up with her anytime to hang out so we could get to know each other. So things are ok there. 
She and I actually managed some light conversation and cheery teasing after we had cleared the air. We have our counseling appointment a week from tomorrow, and I feel a lot better about our chances. I told her that when I said I thought things could work out that I didn't mean a complete 180 degrees in a couple of days, that if it took three months for me to be able to touch her hand, then that was progress and I could live with that, because I wasn't going anywhere. 
For the past few days I haven't approached her at all to talk about things, just lightly asked her about stuff that needed doing around the house and for the kids. She's actually come to me each time, usually once a night. I take that as an encouraging sign. We're still not out of the woods, but I do feel like a nice baby step has been taken, on both of our sides. To everyone out there in similar situations...don't give up on your hope.


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## LittleLost (Sep 6, 2009)

She loves me, she isn't in love with me anymore. Told me she doesn't want to be with me, something inside is broke and can't be fixed. Will always love me, but can't be with me. Will stll see counselor, doesn't think it will help. I am alone, I am drunk, I am losing my wife. Everything I have tried to do has been for nothing.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

im really sorry for what you are going through. it seemed like she was coming around for a second there. it seems strange that she would start coming to you and talking and then turn around and say she doesnt love you anymore.


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## manin_charge (Sep 17, 2009)

Hey man, sorry to hear about your situation. I'm dealing with a similar situation. My wife has just recently uttered to me,"I love you, but I'm not IN love with you" She also feels something is wrong, because she cannot figure out why she is unhappy. She tells me that she doesn't feel the same attraction as she did before. I'm came across your this forum by accident, I was also looking for answers to my problems. It seems like you played everything the way it should be. You were supportive when you could be, and you gave her space when she needed it. Sometimes even that is not enough. I'm suppose to go to counseling today myself, because my wife doesn't know what to do, but she knows she's unhappy. I've read time and time again, on many sites that it's best to stay optimistic, and be patient. But all that is easier said than done. Cause i know I'm having trouble following them myself. I hope counseling helps with your problems, as long as she still has the willingness to want to try, their's still hope. Things seem grim for me too, but I see a little ray of hope knowing that she is still willing to try. Hope that helps


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## LittleLost (Sep 6, 2009)

It's all gone to hell. I found out that she did sleep with T_ that Labor Day weekend, three days after we were separated. Said she did it to prove to herself that it was over, that she wouldn't have been able to do it if we had any chance at all. She talks to him on the phone every night, I've heard some of it (how I found out), talks about how he's buying stuff for her to model for him, and that though they both have insomnia, "...you didn't have much trouble getting to sleep when *I* was there...". She says she doesn't want to be with him, doesn't want to be with anybody, he's just comfort.
I'm taking the kids and moving back north to where we just moved from, except I have to room with my parents. I've had to quit my job and have nothing but a minimum wage job lined up back there. I take the kids because she's going to school full time and can't do it. She goes on how she's sorry that's this is hurting me and that she doesn't know any other way, she doesn't feel the same about me, but last night she went out to meet with an old friend who is a family law specialist, getting papers ready. I have told her that Iwill not sign anything until February, give us both time to assess and think, which she agreed with. Til then we will have no contact at all, occasional text when she wants to see the kids, which I will drop at her parents' house halfway between here and where I will be living in a couple of days. No facebook, no myspace, no calls. 
Told her that I hope with all my heart that time and real space will let her see to give us a chance but that I'm not expecting it, and that by then I might not be at that place anymore. I'm so low right now. I try to think of my kids, but I need to find somekind of professional help. No sleep tonight, put a revolver to my head just to feel it, god help me.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Stop this revolver talk. You messed up your marriage. Live with it. Lots of people do. You have children. You have responsibilities. Accept the facts that you blew your marriage and move forward to never do such a stupid, selfish thing again. You are paying now. But that payment won't last forever. You will heal just as she will, one day.

But do get yourself some help with dealing with this loss and to explore why you have done the things you've done. Prevent a next time with the next woman.


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## LittleLost (Sep 6, 2009)

Final Update: We went to counseling this morning, and the wife was saying straight out that she had no intention of reconciling, was there just because it was what I wanted, etc. Her whole mood was very confrontational and hostile, and after our 50 minutes, we both left shaking mad. The counselor easily concluded what I had known but didn't want to admit, that we were beyond hope the way we were and needed to pull our friendship together for the children. We got home, sniping back and forth on the drive, then...sat down and talked, like we used to when we were first together. I told her that I now realized that as much as I wanted us to stay together, it was the worst possible thing for both of us, and that right now the children were my number one priority. She said that she wished she could change how she felt, she had tried very hard to, and that she was sorry how things happened, she didn't intend to hurt me. 
Long story short, we are now parting as friends and parents. I have spent the last two days running my possessions up to our old house (still vacant), and tomorrow I make two trips, one of which is moving our children and their beds. We spend the evening with them together, she put them to bed and sang to them, then promptly broke down for about 20 minutes, during which I held her and told her that it was ok, she could call them anytime, I'd send her phone pics and video of them every day, she could see them anytime she wanted. We both know that we are totally committed to our children and would never use them against the other, even as angry and bitter as we had been. We both know that, hard as this is, it is for the best. She has no intention of anything serious with T__, but she also knows that I cannot be around it and expect us to stay in the good place we are now. For my part, I have told her that I am still in love with her, and while I will not contact her unduly, she is free to talk to me whenever she wishes, and that I still have a faint hope for us in the uncertain future, which she acknowledged. We're both good now, drained and sad, but we're actually closer, in a way, than we have been in a long time. It didn't turn out exactly as I had hoped, but in this really f**d up situation, I'll take it.


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