# Considering separation... for a few years now



## ShastaShades (Nov 30, 2020)

I stayed single and independent for the longest time.. I married older and I thought I was marrying the right guy. I did not say perfect, he's human after all. I dated this guy when we were in our 20's and too young to get married. He went on with his life, got married, no children, divorced (his xw cheated on him or so he says). I went on with my life, traveled, no children. 

We reconnected after 12 years of not knowing anything about each other. We dated for about 3 years before we decided to move in together and eventually got married. In October this year it's going to be 7 years. I really don't think we'll reach that milestone. 

When we decided to live together, we moved in to a new city where he got an opportunity with his employer. I had to make some arrangements so I could work remotely. And it worked ok for the first couple of years, until it didn't. 

About 4+ years ago, I started noticing his behavior was changed, and it's all the usual signs: he irritable, gets home late, suspicious txts, calls, etc. I did talk to my friends about it to see if they had gone through the same. One of them told me I was being a pain in the butt, that I should give him space, blah blah blah. I tried. I joined a gym, went back to school to get an MBA, I tried to get busy so I would not be thinking all the time on how I could take better care of him. Not kidding: one time he told me he was old enough and had lived alone and didn't need me to take care of him. I felt really bad, I really thought I was a pain.

I mentioned before I was working remotely, so one day I get a call from HR basically thanking me for my service and giving me a severance. They didn't even take the equipment (laptop, 2 monitors, iphone) I had while working with the company. I kinda felt bad about it. Although I knew it was coming, not my performance, it was something the company was doing and being remote I was an easy target. It was around December, so we went to visit our families for the holidays and that really helped coping with that loss.

When we came back to our routines it got even harder for me. I only had school, Tuesday and Thursday nights, and the full time job of looking for a job. There were more signs when i would get back from school the dog would be crated, why??? One time I got home earlier than usual and he came from the bedroom, wearing only underwear asking me what i was doing at home at that time? eh... it's my house? I didn't really make much out of it. He would alway say that he was working and it was more important than ever because I did not have a job. Parenthesis: all the time I was out of work he did not give any money. He would pay for food, mortgage, utilities. I would pay for internet ( I needed it for school and job hunt), phones (his and mine), my car, gas, school, plane tickets... I literally drained my account for over a year I was out of work.

During the first years of our marriage we tried fertility treatments without any success. Blame it on the woman. He would say he was disappointed as he always tried to have children. At some point we stopped trying and accepted the fact that our dogs would be our children. I am at peace with that and I believe he is too. About a year after we stopped the treatment, I was missing my period. I thought it was going through pre-menopause, you know it happens. It turned out I was pregnant. He was very happy, I was scared, but it was exciting while it lasted. At about 10 weeks I lost the baby. That weekend I lost the baby he spent it with his yoga friends, they went hiking, and all that. I thought it was his way of coping with the loss. Monday morning he took me to the doctor, they confirmed there was nothing there, dropped me off at home and left. I stayed at home, with my dog, and experienced the worst physical pain I have ever felt. I do not think he knew back then.

He would spend hours and hours on his phone, to the point where we were dog sitting his sister's dog and he lost it because he was not paying attention to the dog. It was a tragedy for the family. 

Curiosity killed the cat and I found this person. it was interesting because he had this policy of no people from work in Facebook, and she was the exception. After that I found emails, texts, very explicit photos, videos. I confronted him and he reassured me they had never met in person all was virtual, etc. He said over an over that that person does not live here and the chances of her coming to this location are close to none. i know that is not true because i eventually joined the same company as him and on my very first day i hear this voice greeting everyone very familiarly. I knew immediately it was her. She came on a week-long business trip. One day I approached her, asked her if X was her name, she was very friendly and with a bigs smile said yes she was. i did not smile, i just told her who I was and that i had seen her pictures and videos. she just said 'oh that'. yeap. I've seen her twice since then, at the office. So, I doubt they've never met in person.

There is so much more to this story, but fast forward, I tried to get us to go to couple's therapy he said no. He's been there before and to him it would be us going to someone so i can tell that person what i want to tell him. In a way he's right, but how else if he does not even try to listen to me. So many things have happened since then. 

Right now we are at the point where we talk to each other the minimum. I have played a big role on it, basically because now it is tolerance zero. I will not stand anything that is remotely disrespectful. I know I want out, but for some reason I'm scared of bringing the topic over. It's not the first time i will mention the word divorce or separation. Previously he would say i was rushing things, I gave him time. I think he's ready. 

My question for anyone interested would be: is there a good way to bring up the conversation and actually take action on it? I certainly do not want us to be angry and I'd much rather separate in amicable terms.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

This whole story is so crushing.

Have you tried to sit him down and have a serious conversation about what the two of you want? If he is cheating (it looks that way), I don’t see his litigation to stay? The merciful thing would be to let you go.

I don’t understand why that hasn’t happened. Are you set on wanting divorce?

I also agree therapy is somewhat an outlet to communicate with a mediator. I also believe it only works when two people have a desire to understand their partner’s perspective.


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## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

I'm sorry to read this.



ShastaShades said:


> At about 10 weeks I lost the baby. That weekend I lost the baby he spent it with his yoga friends, they went hiking, and all that. I thought it was his way of coping with the loss.


I'm sorry, but he chose to not be near you when this happened? I'm sure it was tough on both of you, but regardless I feel that for him to choose this - his grief over yours, shows you where you are at in the priority of his life.



ShastaShades said:


> My question for anyone interested would be: is there a good way to bring up the conversation and actually take action on it? I certainly do not want us to be angry and I'd much rather separate in amicable terms.


In answer to your specific question, have you considered how that looks? Will you ask him to move out or will you move out? It will be very difficult to give the clear message you need if you cannot physically add that distance. But you need to sit him down, and tell him you see no way forward for you two and that a) you are asking him to move out, or b) you are moving out. And whatever happens, it will help if you can create some physical space immediately, stay with family or friends, either him or you.


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## ShastaShades (Nov 30, 2020)

@moulinyx - have I tried to sit him dow and have a serious conversations? yes, many times. At the beginning it was better, he would act as if he was listening. Now it's almost impossible. We end up fighting. 
I do not know if he's having an affair, but at this point it really doesn't matter, I guess. He says that money-wise he can't afford having an affair and that would be the only reason not looking fro someone else.
He believes in therapy. He's been going to therapy since his first divorce. It was actually his then wife that asked him to go to help them cope with their separation. He's continued his sessions ever since (more than 10 years now). He always says that his xw helped him be who he is today "a better version of him". Even when I found out and confronted him, I told him he should discuss it with his therapist and he replied: " I've done that. she said I should reflect why it's happening". Note: back then it was an ongoing situation. I told him that maybe it was time to change therapists, she had helped him with his father relationship and learn a few things about himself, but she wasn't helping him anymore on other things. He did not agree with me; in fact, he's still having sessions with the same therapist. 
We tried one session and it went from bad to worst. I started talking about the issue that brought us there and when it was his turned he quickly switched the conversation to him and the relationship with his father, he even started crying. That's something that he always does, all the attention has to be pointed on him. Obviously the rest of the session was about him only. He committed to continue the sessions to work on these other issues, but it didn't go well and ended after a couple of times. I'm not surprised.

@MarmiteC - when i lost the baby it was really painful to go through it alone. i honestly thought that it was his way of coping with grief. It was only later that I found out that at that very same time he was having an affair. Everything made sense then. He did not want to close to me, again longer work hours, need to work because somebody needed to work. But if you are really trying to conceive, after a miscarriage is a good time to try because of the hormone levels. He knew it, I knew it, but he was as distant as he could be. He did tell it was because he was sad, it had been his dream to have children, but in reality he was distracted by the affair.

You make a great point by asking if i've considered how separation looks like. I day dream of my life without him, and it is a happy life, better than now. In my mind everything is amicable and we'll just go through it without any issues. I like this house, I like the town where we live in, but I would gladly move to another state if i have to. For some reason I always thought he is the one who has to move out. he has actually said that all i have to do is pay him half of the value of the house and he can go. I think we need to work on those numbers otherwise i would agree. I guess after reading your comment it was the first time that it occurred to me that I am the one who has to make the move. I have no friends (that I could stay) or family near and I have 4 dogs that I love. He wants me to keep all 4 because he says they'll be better taken care with me, and while it is true I cannot take proper care of 4 dogs alone. So most probably we will have to keep 2 each.

Thank you both for your comments. It does help.


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## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

ShastaShades said:


> @MarmiteC - when i lost the baby it was really painful to go through it alone. i honestly thought that it was his way of coping with grief. It was only later that I found out that at that very same time he was having an affair. Everything made sense then. He did not want to close to me, again longer work hours, need to work because somebody needed to work. But if you are really trying to conceive, after a miscarriage is a good time to try because of the hormone levels. He knew it, I knew it, but he was as distant as he could be. He did tell it was because he was sad, it had been his dream to have children, but in reality he was distracted by the affair.
> 
> You make a great point by asking if i've considered how separation looks like. I day dream of my life without him, and it is a happy life, better than now. In my mind everything is amicable and we'll just go through it without any issues. I like this house, I like the town where we live in, but I would gladly move to another state if i have to. For some reason I always thought he is the one who has to move out. he has actually said that all i have to do is pay him half of the value of the house and he can go. I think we need to work on those numbers otherwise i would agree. I guess after reading your comment it was the first time that it occurred to me that I am the one who has to make the move. I have no friends (that I could stay) or family near and I have 4 dogs that I love. He wants me to keep all 4 because he says they'll be better taken care with me, and while it is true I cannot take proper care of 4 dogs alone. So most probably we will have to keep 2 each.
> 
> Thank you both for your comments. It does help.


So he was with the OW straight after you miscarried? I guess not that it matters now, you know what you need to do. I'm sorry you went through that.

Can you make him an offer for his half of the house? Can you put those plans in action and then sit him down and tell him, he needs to go. This is how it is. Time to move on.
You deserve so much better.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@ShastaShades There is something very wrong with your husband, mentally speaking.

See a divorce lawyer. Just think of it as an early birthday present for yourself.


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## ShastaShades (Nov 30, 2020)

MarmiteC said:


> So he was with the OW straight after you miscarried? I guess not that it matters now, you know what you need to do. I'm sorry you went through that.
> 
> Can you make him an offer for his half of the house? Can you put those plans in action and then sit him down and tell him, he needs to go. This is how it is. Time to move on.
> You deserve so much better.


He was. I did mention we went to visit our families during the holidays, right? i found pictures of him, he sent the OW from my father's house. the miscarriage happened on February, i found out about it on May. So yes, even after know I was pregnant he continued his relationship and of course through my miscarriage. 

I guess making an offer would be the right thing. We have talked about it, and my gut feeling is that he wants to go for the high numbers.

Again, we have talked about it several times, i have talked about it. Now it is a bit different. I'm trying to figure out how to actually do it and move through with it.


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## ShastaShades (Nov 30, 2020)

MattMatt said:


> @ShastaShades There is something very wrong with your husband, mentally speaking.
> 
> See a divorce lawyer. Just think of it as an early birthday present for yourself.


I agree there is something wrong with him. I just found these notes he had on a 21-day self-discovery, self improvement meditation plan and it was actually very revealing. It is from 2019, two years after I found out about his affair. One section was about listing people who had an impact on him, at least 50. I was about 36 on the list. I do not know if the order matters, but he started with his immediate family. I saw a couple of names of other women he refers as "cousins" because he grew up with them, but his relationship with them has gotten more physical. so... not sure what to make out of that. the other thing that called my attention is that he dedicated an entire page to his EX, thanking her for all the learnings. On the things he's sorry for there are a few things, I am listed there, but not for what I would expect. he says: "I am sorry for being impatient with my wife and dogs" this is what left me with a big WTF?! on my forehead.

Yes, a divorce lawyer might be the right approach. I have called a lawyer before, they asked me to get all information ready, like financials, properties, etc. and asked for a $2k deposit check. I got copies of all the tax returns, i need to update this year's though.

I see a list of things I need to do:

Find a lawyer
Appraise the house
Get ready to make an offer so he can move out
Talk to the husband

I am pretty sure I am missing steps, but maybe a good start?


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## ShastaShades (Nov 30, 2020)

MattMatt said:


> See a divorce lawyer. Just think of it as an early birthday present for yourself.


I like presents  it will good for a change since the husband thinks the birthdays are just another day because that's the way they were raised.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

You just have to inform him of what is happening and then follow through. He knows what he did, you don't have to prove anything.

Each day you progress like this is another day of your life wasted. You don't get them back.


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## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

ShastaShades said:


> I see a list of things I need to do:
> 
> Find a lawyer
> Appraise the house
> ...


That should keep you pretty busy. When making the offer, just consider what he'd realistically get if you forced a sale, after fees, any taxes etc ;-)


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## ShastaShades (Nov 30, 2020)

re16 said:


> You just have to inform him of what is happening and then follow through. He knows what he did, you don't have to prove anything.
> 
> Each day you progress like this is another day of your life wasted. You don't get them back.


You are absolutely right. I guess the thing that has been keeping me from making any moves (serious moves) is that I do not consider myself to be in a 'danger' position. But my life is pretty much "grey" now. Thanks for your comment.


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## ShastaShades (Nov 30, 2020)

MarmiteC said:


> That should keep you pretty busy. When making the offer, just consider what he'd realistically get if you forced a sale, after fees, any taxes etc ;-)


I didn't even think about it until you brought it up! This is a great point. Thanks!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

ShastaShades said:


> I stayed single and independent for the longest time.. I married older and I thought I was marrying the right guy. I did not say perfect, he's human after all. I dated this guy when we were in our 20's and too young to get married. He went on with his life, got married, no children, divorced (his xw cheated on him or so he says). I went on with my life, traveled, no children.
> 
> We reconnected after 12 years of not knowing anything about each other. We dated for about 3 years before we decided to move in together and eventually got married. In October this year it's going to be 7 years. I really don't think we'll reach that milestone.
> 
> ...


Actually at this juncture I don’t know why yiu are being so nice. He has treated you selfishly, he doesn’t deserve your respect or care. Go see a lawyer, get your ducks in a row and have him served.


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## ShastaShades (Nov 30, 2020)

OK. so, I haven't contacted a lawyer, but I will. Today, I finally brought the topic over (again). It was not difficult, but it wasn't easy either. It's started with me having one of those days at work and ended up feeling defeated (professionally). I didn't really want to cook dinner and I voiced it. I literarily said "I do not want to prepare anything", but knew I had to do it for some reason. A few ideas flew by, the proposed something that requires some kind of lengthly preparation and i replied : "are you going to do that" of course the answer was an unsaid no. I started preparing dinner, feed the dogs, continued preparing dinner and when I look at him he was playing a game on his phone (background: a game introduced to him by an 8 yr old a few years back) and I asked: 'are you playing? really? and it was the perfect start of a discussion that led into him going back to work, not wanting the food I was already preparing and him saying I was 'ungrateful' because he pays for the groceries ( I said I pay, too - that was the trigger). And he ended saying then I should go get my own groceries and him his.

I kindly stopped him there and told him I did not want to be mad at him, but if he wanted to talk about separation I was ready for it. He left and said he couldn't think about that because he had to work and that was his priority, It has always been his priority. Anyway, I asked him to return and talk about it. He did return, but told me I was wasting his time as he had things to do. So, I just reiterated I wanted to start talking about separation. He agreed (just like that: yes, we should split) and left because he was busy. 

It was indeed one of those days.


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