# Step kids and rules



## MarthaMellow

Just moved into a new house with boyfriend of several years. My 20 year old son lives here. His 18 year old daughter visits. 

She's an only child. Until last year, she did not know how to use a microwave, because her parents would fix every meal or snack for her. I kid you not. I have encouraged her father to teach her the very basic cooking skills such as cooking a hot dog or a sandwich. I have tried to show her a few basic things but she's just not interested in dealing with me. And that's fine too. 

So this morning I wake up to a sink full of dirty dishes. She had several friends over, and they cooked a few things, and left every dirty dish and pot in the sink. When my son did that in the past, I would wake him up right then and make him clean it up. He doesn't do it anymore. :smthumbup:

My question is -- do I just ignore it and let her father deal with it (I'm certainly not cleaning it up)? Her father will just clean it up and not say a word. I think that's wrong. She should be responsible for . I want to tell her tonight that leaving that mess in the kitchen is unacceptable. And that I expect everyone in the household to be respectful of each other and clean up after themselves. I would tell her dad to talk to her about it, but he won't. He let's her run over him.

Her rudeness and selfishness is just amazing. But I'm not going into all that. All kids can be that way, I know. I just really hate seeing her dad bend over backwards to spend time with her and cater to her every whim, and then she just brushes him off like he's a piece of dirt. He complains to me about her, but does nothing to change it. 

Talk to her about it or not?


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## turnera

It's your house. If she is disrespectful, it's your right to wake her up and tell her to go do the dishes.


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## turnera

And take your husband to a counselor so he can hear from an expert what he's doing TO his daughter.


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## PBear

My thoughts... The real problem is your husband. Until you deal with him, you're fighting a losing battle. You're going to nag her to do the dishes, but you have no "authority" over her. She'll just run to daddy. Who will just continue to let her visit and coast on the chores. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

True. But you can still set rules and consequences in your own home.


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## PBear

turnera said:


> True. But you can still set rules and consequences in your own home.


Not if her husband isn't going to back her up. What's she going to do? Tell her step daughter that if she doesn't clean up, she can't come visit anymore? Dad will still let her come over anyway. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

PBear said:


> Not if her husband isn't going to back her up. What's she going to do? Tell her step daughter that if she doesn't clean up, she can't come visit anymore? Dad will still let her come over anyway.


Well, personally, I don't need a partner bad enough that I would let HIM stay there if it continued. I guess she'll have to make that choice - accept crappy treatment for the rest of her life or do something about it. I agree, though - the problem is the father.


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## PBear

turnera said:


> Well, personally, I don't need a partner bad enough that I would let HIM stay there if it continued. I guess she'll have to make that choice - accept crappy treatment for the rest of her life or do something about it. I agree, though - the problem is the father.


There's a reason why blended households are stressful. Seems like this is the kind of thing that should have been discussed and agreed on before the whole "living together" thing happened. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarthaMellow

turnera said:


> It's your house. If she is disrespectful, it's your right to wake her up and tell her to go do the dishes.


I feel it's fair, since I would treat my own child the same. Just wanted another opinion. Thanks!


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## MarthaMellow

PBear said:


> My thoughts... The real problem is your husband. Until you deal with him, you're fighting a losing battle. You're going to nag her to do the dishes, but you have no "authority" over her. She'll just run to daddy. Who will just continue to let her visit and coast on the chores.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks PBear. But no, I will not nag. Ever. I'll tell her to do them, if she doesn't, her father can deal with her. And then I will deal with HIM.


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## MarthaMellow

Oh, about the blended families being difficult. Yes, I don't recommend it to anyone now that I'm on the other side. I grew up in a divorced home with a step father that was a wonderful man. My step mother was a wonderful woman. It was never an issue that I would not listen to either of them. I never dreamed I'd have trouble blending a family. 

I love lemons.


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## LeAnneD

Hello,
I am a step parent and it is a hard job. I agree with what everyone here has said, he needs to back you in your decisions. You need to start with asking him if he thinks she needs to do the dishes or if he thinks it is ok for her to leave them dirty and not pick up after herself. She is 18 there is no excuse. It is your house and I would tell her nicely to pick up after herself and let her know it is not your job to clean up the dishes she messed up.


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## MarthaMellow

His way of dealing with her is to just do everything for her. His excuse for her is that she's not here much and she should just relax. So yes, he thinks it is ok for her to do this. That's what he tells me. 

It's not ok with me. So it will be addressed. 

I almost feel sorry for her. She literally has no idea how to do the simplest of things.


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## MarthaMellow

His way of dealing with her is to just do everything for her. His excuse for her is that she's not here much and she should just relax. So yes, he thinks it is ok for her to do this. That's what he tells me. 

It's not ok with me. So it will be addressed. 

I almost feel sorry for her. She literally has no idea how to do the simplest of things.


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## turnera

Good time to say "I can't be with someone who doesn't believe it's his duty to teach his child how to be a healthy, responsible adult. If you don't believe in doing this for your own child, I have to question our relationship. We may be incompatible."


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## turnera

That said, maybe she would benefit from some one-on-one time with you. If she isn't getting the maternal role at her other home, and isn't getting parenting from her dad, she may be hungry for some structure and guidance. Maybe you could be the one good influence in her life. Have you ever invited her to make a batch of cookies or something?


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## arbitrator

*Similar story with me and my XW! She had three kids who knew the basics on how to nuke something in the microwave to eat. But they wouldn't clean up their messes, the kitchen, their bedrooms, their bathrooms... anything!

XW told me to leave the dishes piled up in their room along with beer, wine, and whiskey bottles, along with their drug paraphenalia; and dishes also stacked up in the kitchen as she rarely told them to clean up, at least in my presence. They wouldn't do crap and this beautiful old historic house in which we resided quickly turned into an absolute eyesore.

I gave XW one week for them to get it cleaned up. So I took a trip out of town during that time and it was even worse when I got back. So I cleaned it all up, even their bedrooms and bathrooms. The XW jumped all over me, telling me that by my actions, that I was simply enabling them and that they would never learn to clean up after themselves.

I retorted to her that there are certain deadlines also that they need to learn to comply with.

So was I grossly wrong in doing what I did? I don't really think so!*


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## PBear

turnera said:


> Good time to say "I can't be with someone who doesn't believe it's his duty to teach his child how to be a healthy, responsible adult. If you don't believe in doing this for your own child, I have to question our relationship. We may be incompatible."


Quoting this as Tunera touches on the compatibility... How long did you (the OP) date before moving in together? Did you two discuss parenting philosophies?

FWIW, I'm a part-time dad, currently seeing someone who doesn't have kids. So while we won't have a blended family to deal with (assuming we move things to a next level), we will have to deal with step-parenting. And I feel like I've got a pretty good idea of how we will be parenting together.

C


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## PBear

arbitrator said:


> *Similar story with me and my XW! She had three kids who knew the basics on how to nuke something in the microwave to eat. But they wouldn't clean up their messes, the kitchen, their rooms, their bathrooms... anything!
> 
> XW told me to leave the dishes piled up in their room and also in the kitchen as she told them to clean up. They wouldn't do crap and this beautiful old historic house in which we resided turned into an absolute eyesore.
> 
> I gave XW one week for them to do it. I took a trip out of town during that time and it was worse when I got back. So I cleaned it all up, even their bathrooms. The XW jumped all over me, telling me that by my actions, that I was enabling them and that they would never learn to clean.
> 
> I retorted to her that there are certain deadlines also that they need to learn to comply with.
> 
> So was I grossly wrong in doing what I did? I don't really think so!*


I'd say you were wrong if the only implication of them not meeting the deadline was that you cleaned up their messes for them. That would only teach them that if they ignore things long enough, the problem goes away. But if there was significant fallout from you cleaning up their messes (like you got their allowances for the next month), then no, I'd say you weren't in the wrong.

C


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## turnera

arbitrator said:


> Similar story with me and my XW! She had three kids who knew the basics on how to nuke something in the microwave to eat. But they wouldn't clean up their messes, the kitchen, their bedrooms, their bathrooms... anything!
> 
> XW told me to leave the dishes piled up in their room along with beer, wine, and whiskey bottles, along with their drug paraphernalia; and dishes also stacked up in the kitchen as she rarely told them to clean up, at least in my presence. They wouldn't do crap and this beautiful old historic house in which we resided quickly turned into an absolute eyesore.
> 
> I gave XW one week for them to get it cleaned up. So I took a trip out of town during that time and it was even worse when I got back. So I cleaned it all up, even their bedrooms and bathrooms. The XW jumped all over me, telling me that by my actions, that I was simply enabling them and that they would never learn to clean up after themselves.
> 
> I retorted to her that there are certain deadlines also that they need to learn to comply with.
> 
> So was I grossly wrong in doing what I did? I don't really think so!


So...they refused to do anything...so you cleaned it all up FOR them? So they could mess it up all over again? I was hoping to read that you cleaned it up and then kicked them all out!


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## arbitrator

turnera said:


> So...they refused to do anything...so you cleaned it all up FOR them? So they could mess it up all over again? I was hoping to read that you cleaned it up and then kicked them all out!


*My XW was a millionairess, she controlled the pocketbook. These worthless louts of hers always got their allowance money. No requirements of work were ever expected from them, per their wealthy Mom. 

I cut and edged the grass; I tended and fed the pets; I cleaned the house; I took care of the farm; so she could go off and play with both of her out-of town BF's, for at least 1-1/2 years and unbeknownst to me at the time. Her kids would then drag their dopehead buddies over whenever they knew that Mom would be gone.

My own kids seldom ever visited, but I really didn't want them coming around seeing that house in such a trashy state.

So my question is: Did I have the right to clean up my house if I personally want to live in a tidy home? Or must I always acquiese to XW's demands that her kids need to know how to clean up, when they absolutely refuse to make the first damn effort to do so!*


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## turnera

Well, honestly, I would have just moved out if she had the money and you had no clout. What you described was very passive and unhealthy, on your part. I get wanting the house clean, but weren't you the man of the house?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

As Pbear pointed out, turnera makes an excellent point!

Right now, the problem is that Special Little Princess doesn't know how to cook or clean. 

What's next? You two decide to pony up $20K for SLP's wedding, only SLP & her mom insist that nothing short of $30K will grant SLP the wedding of her dreams? Guess who's NOT gonna win that one!

After that, SLP will produce the grandchildren (the Special Little Snowflakes) who will undoubtedly be treated differently (read that "better") than YOUR grandchildren. What are you going to do at that point?

The fact is that you two do NOT see eye-to-eye on family life and, despite the fact that your kids are nearly grown, family life will continue on. Only *now* it will be the source for innumerable new arguments.

I'm not sure you're with the right guy long-term!

.


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## MarthaMellow

turnera said:


> That said, maybe she would benefit from some one-on-one time with you. If she isn't getting the maternal role at her other home, and isn't getting parenting from her dad, she may be hungry for some structure and guidance. Maybe you could be the one good influence in her life. Have you ever invited her to make a batch of cookies or something?


Turnera - I love kids. I truly enjoy being with them. But this nut is a hard one to crack. I've invited her to join me making candy, baking cookies, cooking meals, going for a manicure, picking out new paint for her room, etc etc. She just politely declines. So I stop asking. 

I'm surprised her mother has not been more instructional on the domestic front, she's a great lady and very involved in her daughter's life. In fact, it's odd. The teen is actually very very nice to me when her mother is around. Other wise she pretty much just ignores me. The bio mom and I get along exceedingly well. 

UPDATE from last night: I get home from work, and the teen and her father are in the den. I walk in and ask "Did you leave those dishes in the sink?" She looks at me and says No. She flat out lied to me. I said, I KNOW you did. Now the boyfriend is contorting his face, trying to get me to drop it. 

I look at him and say, "I don't know why you are looking at me that way, but she did leave the sink full of dirty dishes. " 

I turned to her and said " That is not acceptable. I do not like to wake up to a mess. Understood?" 

So boyfriend jumps to her defense, saying the dishwasher was full, she couldn't put them up. To which I replied, the dishwasher was NOT full and if it was full, then there are options. Unload the dishwasher, then reload. Or hand wash the dishes that she used. 

I finished by asking did anyone not understand how the kitchen should be left at night? She didn't speak to me the rest of the night, but then again, she never does. Boyfriend was all lovey dovey to me. I felt pretty good myself. Tonight, she won't be there and I will discuss with him why he felt the need to defend her wrong behavior.


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## MarthaMellow

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> As Pbear pointed out, turnera makes an excellent point!
> 
> Right now, the problem is that Special Little Princess doesn't know how to cook or clean.
> 
> What's next? You two decide to pony up $20K for SLP's wedding, only SLP & her mom insist that nothing short of $30K will grant SLP the wedding of her dreams? Guess who's NOT gonna win that one!
> 
> After that, SLP will produce the grandchildren (the Special Little Snowflakes) who will undoubtedly be treated differently (read that "better") than YOUR grandchildren. What are you going to do at that point?
> 
> The fact is that you two do NOT see eye-to-eye on family life and, despite the fact that your kids are nearly grown, family life will continue on. Only *now* it will be the source for innumerable new arguments.
> 
> I'm not sure you're with the right guy long-term!
> 
> .


That's funny on the wedding issue. The fact is I make more money than he does, and he can't afford to pay for a 25k wedding anyway. And I'm definitely not. 

I love the SLP, never heard of that. I do have grandchildren, and he is very good with them. They love him, and run jump in his arms when they see him. He attends their sporting functions and birthday parties. I truly think it's his divorce guilt that has him being a pushover dad.


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## MarthaMellow

arbitrator said:


> *My XW was a millionairess, she controlled the pocketbook. These worthless louts of hers always got their allowance money. No requirements of work were ever expected from them, per their wealthy Mom.
> 
> I cut and edged the grass; I tended and fed the pets; I cleaned the house; I took care of the farm; so she could go off and play with both of her out-of town BF's, for at least 1-1/2 years and unbeknownst to me at the time. Her kids would then drag their dopehead buddies over whenever they knew that Mom would be gone.
> 
> My own kids seldom ever visited, but I really didn't want them coming around seeing that house in such a trashy state.
> 
> So my question is: Did I have the right to clean up my house if I personally want to live in a tidy home? Or must I always acquiese to XW's demands that her kids need to know how to clean up, when they absolutely refuse to make the first damn effort to do so!*


This situation is just full of bad. Get out man!


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## turnera

MarthaMellow said:


> I truly think it's his divorce guilt that has him being a pushover dad.


There are plenty of articles out there about why this is so bad that you could print out and read to him while he's a captive in a car with you.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

I'm glad he treats your grandchildren GREAT! That is wonderful for everyone involved.

My point is: If he can't stand up to SLP NOW, if he can't 'man up' and tell SLP that she needs to grow up and act like an adult, he's not suddenly going to grow a spine and tell her in the coming years! He is going to continue to back down and acquiesce, only now it will be on increasing more important (and expensive) matters.

You might make more $$ than him and split the bills 50/50 or 60/40 or whatever. But when SLP demands/cries/whines/pleads/whatever that she simply MUST have that $8K wedding dress, he is going to cave in and help her get it. If that means he has to renege on his previous financial arrangements with you, he will because -- after all -- it is SLP's Big Day and it only comes once!

Ditto for SLP if she wants help with a house, or $$ for the grandkids. Whatever previous agreements you two may have had will go right out the window for a man with no backbone to stand up to his daughter. In a choice between making SLP unhappy or YOU unhappy, he has already shown you whom he is going to choose EVERY TIME! 

If you can't accept it or don't see SUBSTANTIVE change to this pattern in the next 4-6 months, then you might want to reconsider being with someone who is ALWAYS going to put you second to his GROWN child out of misplaced 'guilt'.


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## arbitrator

MarthaMellow said:


> This situation is just full of bad. Get out man!


*Past tense, Martha! I've been out of there for quite a while now! And now divorced and living in an apartment with my youngest college sophomore son near his campus.

And while I dearly loved the old mansion that we lived in, I absolutely love my solitude from her, her wealth, and her worthless kids far more; but at the same time, I do miss her extended family!*


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## turnera

MarthaMellow said:


> Turnera - I love kids. I truly enjoy being with them. But this nut is a hard one to crack. I've invited her to join me making candy, baking cookies, cooking meals, going for a manicure, picking out new paint for her room, etc etc. She just politely declines. So I stop asking.


This is not a dis on you, but I wonder if maybe she expected you to stop asking, and you just proved her point?


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## MarthaMellow

Well gee Turnera, maybe I should have just kept asking, but 3 years is enough for me!


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## PBear

It's easy to be a "great" dad and grandfather who's loved by kids when you don't enforce any rules or boundaries. It's much harder to be a good parent who teaches their kids good work ethics and proper social behaviours. 

C


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## MarthaMellow

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> I'm glad he treats your grandchildren GREAT! That is wonderful for everyone involved.
> 
> My point is: If he can't stand up to SLP NOW, if he can't 'man up' and tell SLP that she needs to grow up and act like an adult, he's not suddenly going to grow a spine and tell her in the coming years! He is going to continue to back down and acquiesce, only now it will be on increasing more important (and expensive) matters.
> 
> You might make more $$ than him and split the bills 50/50 or 60/40 or whatever. But when SLP demands/cries/whines/pleads/whatever that she simply MUST have that $8K wedding dress, he is going to cave in and help her get it. If that means he has to renege on his previous financial arrangements with you, he will because -- after all -- it is SLP's Big Day and it only comes once!
> 
> Ditto for SLP if she wants help with a house, or $$ for the grandkids. Whatever previous agreements you two may have had will go right out the window for a man with no backbone to stand up to his daughter. In a choice between making SLP unhappy or YOU unhappy, he has already shown you whom he is going to choose EVERY TIME!
> 
> If you can't accept it or don't see SUBSTANTIVE change to this pattern in the next 4-6 months, then you might want to reconsider being with someone who is ALWAYS going to put you second to his GROWN child out of misplaced 'guilt'.


I see your point. However, I do not care how he spends his discretionary money. That's on him. He will continue to meet his financial obligations with me/that effect me or he will find a boot up his a$$. I'm not playing that game! 

Last Christmas, I took over buying the SLP christmas gifts. My thought was, I will treat her as I treat my own. I spend way too much on gifts, I realize that, but I spent roughly the same amount on each kid (I also have a daughter), which is about 4 times what she was used to having. 

Then through out the year, I began to realize that although *I* was treating her the same, she was not treating me any better than a stranger (even though I've been with her father for years). What exactly was I doing?? Then I began to wonder was I trying to buy her off? Well, no, _I truly wanted to treat her as I treat my own, but I got tired of being the invisible person in a room_. She'll hug her dad goodbye, with me sitting right next to him, and turn around and leave the house without a simple BYE or wave to me. Nothing. She comes in the door, she says nothing to me until I say HELLO LITTLE PRINCESS, then she'll say Hi. She will answer me if I ask a direct question. Yes, no. I don't know. That's about all I get.

It finally sank in me. She ISN'T my kid, she doesn't WANT a relationship with me. So I backed off. Way off. Now I don't care a bit if she likes me or not. This year, she got a hundred dollars in cash from her father for Christmas. Because that what HE could afford.


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## MarthaMellow

PBear said:


> Quoting this as Tunera touches on the compatibility... How long did you (the OP) date before moving in together? Did you two discuss parenting philosophies?
> 
> FWIW, I'm a part-time dad, currently seeing someone who doesn't have kids. So while we won't have a blended family to deal with (assuming we move things to a next level), we will have to deal with step-parenting. And I feel like I've got a pretty good idea of how we will be parenting together.
> 
> C


We've dated for several years. He thinks I'm a hard a$$ on my kids, and I think he's a pushover. Funny thing is, my kids LOVE being at home, and bring all their friends over, and the friends love being at my house. Mine was the hang out of the neighborhood. And yes, I was the parent that told the kid to pull his dang pants up, you aren't wearing that in MY house! And they still came back over and over.


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## MarthaMellow

PBear said:


> It's easy to be a "great" dad and grandfather who's loved by kids when you don't enforce any rules or boundaries. It's much harder to be a good parent who teaches their kids good work ethics and proper social behaviours.
> 
> C


I guess it is.


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## turnera

MarthaMellow said:


> Well gee Turnera, maybe I should have just kept asking, but 3 years is enough for me!


*shrug*

I can understand how you'd feel that way. And I don't know you guys. I just think it's every adult's job to push the envelope when it comes to kids. There's obviously something not right or missing about her when she's at y'all's house; maybe she doesn't trust you, maybe she's jealous, maybe she got told a bunch of lies about you, maybe she really doesn't care, who knows? I just don't see the harm, or the expenditure, in saying a few words now and then to keep letting her know you're being inclusive.


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## Bobby5000

My question is -- do I just ignore it and let her father deal with it (I'm certainly not cleaning it up)? YES Her father will just clean it up and not say a word. I think that's wrong. She should be responsible for . I want to tell her tonight that leaving that mess in the kitchen is unacceptable. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. If you are the stepparent, do not be the primary disciplinarian; everything should go through your husband.


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## Omego

Bobby5000 said:


> My question is -- do I just ignore it and let her father deal with it (I'm certainly not cleaning it up)? YES Her father will just clean it up and not say a word. I think that's wrong. She should be responsible for . I want to tell her tonight that leaving that mess in the kitchen is unacceptable. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. If you are the stepparent, do not be the primary disciplinarian; everything should go through your husband.


Yes, but it is her house. This is about provocation. I mean, come on, an 18-year old knows to clean up behind herself. 

OP, you are right. She doesn't want a relationship with you and she resents you. So be it. As long as you remain calm and firm you should be okay. It's your house and she needs to treat you with respect or she can't come over. It's a simple as that. It has to be. Over time, she will respect you more, even if she doesn't like you.


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## frusdil

Bobby5000 said:


> My question is -- do I just ignore it and let her father deal with it (I'm certainly not cleaning it up)? YES Her father will just clean it up and not say a word. I think that's wrong. She should be responsible for . I want to tell her tonight that leaving that mess in the kitchen is unacceptable. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. If you are the stepparent, do not be the primary disciplinarian; everything should go through your husband.


I strongly disagree with this. I'm a stepmum to our 9 year old daughter from my husbands first marriage. 

I pick her up from school 3 days a week, and take her to various things...I spend a lot of time with her (which I love) while my husband is at work. I have to be able to discipline her.

She knows I love her, and she loves me. Ironically, my husband is far too soft on her, lets too much go and she has no respect for him at all - she adores me, lol. I pull her up for bad behaviour every single time. Not that it happens often, very rarely do I have any trouble with her because she knows I follow through.


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