# Five years and counting ....



## munchie (May 17, 2011)

Sorry for this lengthy post.

Five years ago, I found out that my husband of 21 yrs had been having a five month affair with one of his _married_ clients. I was completely blindsided and devastated by the discovery. He _claimed_ that both he and the woman were unhappy with their lives and serendipitously found solace in each other, but that he loved me and didn't want to leave me for her or break up our family. About a month after DD, the woman ended up being terminated from her VP job for breach of contract because her co-worker found out about the relationship and reported OW to the compliance office. And my husband (who is the founder/president of a public relations firm) was forced to resign the 6-figure account. Idiots, the both of them.

Although I asked for complete non-contact with the woman, my husband felt guilty about _'ruining'_ her life (ruining *my* life didn't seem to be as big of a concern). He was remorseful over the devastating chain of events for months. Although the OW was also responsible for her own downfall - my husband didn't see it that way. He recommended (and perhaps paid for?) a lawyer to help OW with her termination contract. Then I found out that he helped her set up a consulting business by providing people in his office who designed a logo, stationary and a website for her. I was livid, told him that this was inappropriate and contact *had to stop*. He assured me that once she was on her feet again - his job to help her out would be complete and he could go on living his life normally again. We went to marriage counseling for a little while, but he wasn't happy with the conclusions of the therapist and stopped going. 

I'm really good with technology and after finding out about the affair, I would sometimes log in to his computer when he wasn't home to 'snoop around'. Yes, I admit that this was not the right thing to do, but at this point ... my trust in him is slim. I always seem to find things and sure enough, I *discovered* that he hired her to work on a project for another one of his clients. This time he claimed that he only provided her name to the client and "_they_" hired her. But as a result, they were still in touch. Again I protested and he said that nothing physical or romantic was going on because he didn't want to be with her ... he wanted to be with me ... and that he _"was here with me and our family, wasn't he?!"_. 

This crap went on for about a year and then seemed to subside. She had gotten a new job and her name never came up. Once in a while I would ask if had heard from the OW and he would say things like "She called me a few months ago but I missed the call..." Time passed and our relationship _seemed_ fine. I wanted to move forward and not always bring up OW. I was trying to trust him. We rarely fight or argue, we have fun, enjoy each other's company, travel, go out to dinner, play golf together, spend time with our three kids (ages 24, 22, 19) and have a good life. 

Then last September, I had to contact Verizon about a problem with my college freshman daughter's cell phone. My husband pays for the the kids' phones on his account, so I had to get the username and password from his office manager so I could contact the phone company.

While viewing the account online, I looked at the calls on my husband's phone line and noticed over 80 phone calls to and from one particular number from Sept 2014 - Sept 2015. Curious about all the phone calls - I looked up the number online and 'surprise'... the number belonged to the OW. I printed out all the phone bills and later on, I asked my husband when the last time he talked to OW was. He squinted his face and said "Geez ... I can't remember. It has to be about six months ago or so." Then I presented him with the printed out copies of the phone bills and said "Six months ago, huh?" His 'excuse' was that she's been going through a lot of difficult times at work and wanted his advice. He didn't want to 'upset' me by telling me that she had been in touch. 80 times? Bulls*t!! (I seem like a complete moron, don't I?)

So, he agreed to go back to marriage counseling, which we've been doing since last Sept. While the phone calls to/from her seemed to stop by Oct. - I did find a lengthy Word document on his computer in January where he professed to her that _she is the love of his life and he's loved her the best way he's could over these past five years_. It seems that she told him that she doesn't want to see him anymore because she's not willing to wait any longer (she got divorced about two years ago). He told her that he understood her rationale and while he wanted to scream at her not to go ... the screams inside his head to stop hurting her (by not being able to be with her) were even stronger. 

Once I found this correspondence and confronted him about it, his excuse was that he _just said it all because he wanted to let her down easy_. Seriously? More bullish*t!!! Enough of this crap!! I basically drew a line in the sand at that point - and I told him that if I *EVER* find out that they have seen each other or have been in touch ... our marriage is over and he's out ... because he's had WAY TOO MANY do-overs with me. It would be hard to kick him out after almost 26 years because he's truly a great father, good husband (for the most part) and well-respected by clients and friends. People think we have a great marriage and would really be shocked. But I know deserve better. 

So we continue to go to the marriage counselor and while he claims that the 'further away' he gets from his tangled web with OW ...the easier it is to not think about her ... BUT I'm having a VERY HARD TIME believing him. He insists that _"nothing is going on, that he wants to be in our marriage with me and that he loves me, that the 'involvement' with the the OW was a terrible mistake, that she's messed up and he would never want to be with her, etc., etc., that so many tragedies came from that relationship with her."_ But I'm always worried that there's some lingering thing going on. I've thought about calling her up to find out what the real story is - maybe clue her in on what my husband is saying about HER - but I hesitate to do it. She might call him to say that I contacted her and I know his response would be anger towards me.

I obviously _want_ to trust my husband - but he's made it pretty difficult. Am *I* the one who's being an idiot now? Is there a way to move forward without constantly worrying about what may or may not be going on?


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Do you think you will ever stop looking for more proof? Will you ever feel comfortable? Do you deserve that? Do you want to live your life feeling this way? Simple questions, you know you asked yourself before. Does it even matter if he is telling you the truth about the lying? See the paradox there? There is almost no way you can ever believe him unless you just hit the bottle and stop caring.

I'd gtfo if I were you. He obviously doesn't trust you or respect you anymore. That is a net negative in my opinion and better to be alone than to live like that.


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## Ol'Pal (Aug 24, 2015)

munchie said:


> Sorry for this lengthy post.
> 
> Five years ago, I found out that my husband of 21 yrs had been having a five month affair with one of his _married_ clients. I was completely blindsided and devastated by the discovery. He _claimed_ that both he and the woman were unhappy with their lives and serendipitously found solace in each other, but that he loved me and didn't want to leave me for her or break up our family. About a month after DD, the woman ended up being terminated from her VP job for breach of contract because her co-worker found out about the relationship and reported OW to the compliance office. And my husband (who is the founder/president of a public relations firm) was forced to resign the 6-figure account. Idiots, the both of them.
> 
> ...



Short answer to the bolded. ...YES!


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

So, basically, your husband has been stringing you along, lying to you and cheating on you, cake-eating while you suffer, for half a decade? And now you want to know if you should continue to try to trust someone who is obviously, relentlessly and remorselessly untrustworthy.....

Seriously?

:slap:


Look, OP, your husband has shown you who he is and where you stand in his priority list - over and over and over again. And it's somewhere below the OW. I think it's well past time that you start to believe his actions rather than his words. And, frankly, even if he's really serious this time (honest, really for realz this time!  ) and never contacts her again, why would you want to be married to someone who's a liar and a cheat and has basically been torturing you repeatedly for the last five years? This is a man who knows that he's been hurting you and continues to do it again and again anyway. Don't you think you deserve better?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I don't see any point staying in a marriage with someone that you can't trust You don't want to live the rest of your life like this.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

munchie said:


> I obviously _want_ to trust my husband - but he's made it pretty difficult. Am *I* the one who's being an idiot now? Is there a way to move forward without constantly worrying about what may or may not be going on?


He destroyed that trust, not you. You are not the one who can repair it. He needs to do that, and it won't be an easy job. The only way to move forward is for him to be completely honest about anything you ask. No secrets and no manipulations. 

But there is the sticky point. He lied to you about her and the extent of his feelings for her. She divorced her husband to be with yours. He tells you that he loves you and wants to stay, but keeps in contact with this woman. He is hedging his bets. If you divorce him, he will go to her. He wants to have you in public and her on the side. 

You can't trust him, while he plays this game. (google the 'pick me dance chumplady'). It's not a game you want to play. Do a trial separation and see how fast he shacks up with her. If he does care about you and want to stay married, he won't. My guess is he will. Either way, you get your answer. 

Sorry you are going through this. I've been there. It's hell right now, but it gets better once you face your fear and force a choice.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Yes, you are an idiot.

Sorry, you asked.

If you insist on remaining married to him then do it with the understanding that he is a cheat and liar.

PS: your hb knows you're a doormat
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

munchie said:


> Sorry for this lengthy post.
> 
> 
> but he wasn't happy with the conclusions of the therapist and stopped going.


People will only believe what they want to believe...... shaking my head.



> I'm really good with technology and after finding out about the affair, I would sometimes log in to his computer when he wasn't home to 'snoop around'. Yes, I admit that this was not the right thing to do, but at this point ... my trust in him is slim. I always seem to find things and sure enough,


If it isn't right, then it isn't right. If you have to be his policeman, then we are no longer talking about a relationship, are we?


> Then I presented him with the printed out copies of the phone bills and said "Six months ago, huh?" His 'excuse' was that she's been going through a lot of difficult times at work and wanted his advice. He didn't want to 'upset' me by telling me that she had been in touch. 80 times? Bulls*t!! (I seem like a complete moron, don't I?)


He doesn't respect you to handle the truth. He doesn't respect relationship rules. You have to spy on him, as a policeman.





> So, he agreed to go back to marriage counseling, which we've been doing since last Sept. While the phone calls to/from her seemed to stop by Oct. - I did find a lengthy Word document on his computer in January where he professed to her that _she is the love of his life and he's loved her the best way he's could over these past five years_. It seems that she told him that she doesn't want to see him anymore because she's not willing to wait any longer (she got divorced about two years ago). He told her that he understood her rationale and while he wanted to scream at her not to go ... the screams inside his head to stop hurting her (by not being able to be with her) were even stronger.


I always individuals to judge each other on actions, not words. At the same time, we don't hold each other to their words. If one says they will never cheat again, we don't hold them to the words, we focus on actions.

His intentions are not to further your relationship. What more do you need to say? He knows what he is doing is wrong and he has no intent to stop it.



> Once I found this correspondence and confronted him about it, his excuse was that he _just said it all because he wanted to let her down easy_. Seriously? More bullish*t!!! Enough of this crap!!


So telling her that he wants to be her man is letting her down easy?

Disrespecting his marital relationship by doing this somehow makes sense? What do his actions say?



> I basically drew a line in the sand at that point - and I told him that if I *EVER* find out that they have seen each other or have been in touch ... our marriage is over and he's out ... because he's had WAY TOO MANY do-overs with me. It would be hard to kick him out after almost 26 years because he's truly a great father, good husband (for the most part) and well-respected by clients and friends. People think we have a great marriage and would really be shocked. But I know deserve better.


It is easy to leave. You leave. What is difficult is the excuses you use to stay and the excuses he uses to manipulate things into his favor.



> So we continue to go to the marriage counselor and while he claims that the 'further away' he gets from his tangled web with OW ...the easier it is to not think about her ... BUT I'm having a VERY HARD TIME believing him. He insists that _"nothing is going on, that he wants to be in our marriage with me and that he loves me, that the 'involvement' with the the OW was a terrible mistake, that she's messed up and he would never want to be with her, etc., etc., that so many tragedies came from that relationship with her."_ But I'm always worried that there's some lingering thing going on. I've thought about calling her up to find out what the real story is - maybe clue her in on what my husband is saying about HER - but I hesitate to do it. She might call him to say that I contacted her and I know his response would be anger towards me.


Might be true. Might not be true. If he was forced into counseling, then I tend to think he is trying to please the counselor.



> I obviously _want_ to trust my husband - but he's made it pretty difficult. Am *I* the one who's being an idiot now? Is there a way to move forward without constantly worrying about what may or may not be going on?


His (daily?) actions were to cheat. This isn't a forgive and forget scenario. To forgive, the past has to be in the past. The past is present for you.



You do one thing: 

H, I am asking you to be 100% faithful. I will not check up on you. 

If this is violated, you leave. He has to be responsible for his actions. What you have done is give him ultimatums and coerce him. You can excuse or rationalize your behavior, but the consequences are that he doesn't take responsibility for what he does.

If he indicates that he wants to be with OW, then respect him. Let him make that choice. As such, he owns his actions 100% and the cost of him leaving you imposed on him is 100x as much.

Long story short, you have not expressed any information that show his actions to reconcile with you are genuine.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

OP,

Do your adult kids know that dear old dad is a big old cheater ?

You realize the affair never really ended. Even if it wasn't still physical, it was still an EA, so you WH has been cheating on you for five years. You should be beyond pissed off.

Time for D.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

munchie said:


> I obviously _want_ to trust my husband - but he's made it pretty difficult. Am *I* the one who's being an idiot now? Is there a way to move forward without constantly worrying about what may or may not be going on?


First question: Yes, for wasting 5 years of your life.

Second question: Yes, DIVORCE HIM so you can quit your job as warden of the self-imposed limbo prison you exist in now.


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

I guess you need to ask yourself if you can stay with a partner you can probably never fully trust? He doesn't seem to have any qualms about keeping new contact hidden from you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tell us why you would consider staying with him. What are your reasons.


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## munchie (May 17, 2011)

I want to stay with him because I do love him, he's fun to be with, is a great father, is very smart (intellectually), is generous and loving, and has (for the most part) been a good husband. We've been together for almost 30 years and married for almost 26. He's never physically or verbally abused me, has always been my champion and usually tries to make me happy. We enjoy traveling, going out to dinner, watching movies. No marriage is perfect - but I always felt that ours was pretty darn good. Obviously except for his affair which has tarnished things. Now I'm obsessed with thoughts about it. He'll tell me where he's going (like to a particular meeting) or what he's doing during the day and tries to keep me in the loop - but now I'm constantly wondering if he's actually doing what he says he is - like meeting her somewhere during the day or talking to her on the phone when on his way to a meeting. 

Last night he seemed upset and when I asked why - he said that he's got a bunch of things going on at work and some financial issues (clients not paying on time, etc.) that have him preoccupied. But I immediately think he's upset because maybe he's thinking about OW and the fact that he can't be with her or that he's stuck here with me when he doesn't want to be (even though he says he does). When I mention these things to him - he gets annoyed and insists that I make his anxiety about ME and that how he's feeling has nothing to do with me and or the OW. 

But can I or should I believe that? I was doing pretty well for a few years when I didn't know anything was going on ... but since last September, when everything 'broke open' again ... I'm having a tough time.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, I think it's possible that some of your anxiety in this situation comes from the fact that your marriage _has_ been good. Your husband didn't cheat during a rough patch or in a bad marriage. He cheated in a good marriage. This wasn't a cry for help, an exit affair, or the desperate act of a man who'd been miserable for years. He flat out just cheated because he wanted to and he could. It's possible that, in your mind, that means there's nothing you can do or fix or make better to "keep" him from cheating in the future. So you don't know what you can do to protect yourself. 

I'm sorry to say that there's not much you can do. You did not cause him to cheat. You cannot stop him from doing it again. People who cheat in a good marriage do so because they are intensely self-centered. They have a good thing, but have no qualms about risking it for a little extra fun on the side. Of course he doesn't want a divorce. He wants to keep his happy marriage _and_ have her. And it sounds like now, he'd really prefer it if you'd just shut up about it and let him get back to having his cake and eating it too. He's proven to you that he cannot be trusted to end his affair even when he says it's over with her. 

Staying with him is going to mean that there's always a chance he's got an affair going. He's a proven, long term, liar and cheat. So if staying is your choice, then you need to make peace with his activities and learn to ignore whatever is going on. Continuing to monitor him or dig around for evidence will only make you miserable, so if you're going to stay with him, you'll need to stop it for you own sanity. Just accept that, yes, he cheats, and try not to be bothered by it. If, on the other hand, you aren't happy to allow him both the marriage and his long-term mistress, then leaving him is really your only option.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So basically he's carried on for 5 years with no consequences and even now you're worried about his precious feelings. Wow.

You know what? Sounds like you think what you get from him is worth putting up wIth cheating and lying.

That's up to you. If that's how your feel then accept it and go about your business. 

In fact, why don't you work out an open marriage and you can have your fun too. Then you don't have to worry about policing him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

You're an idiot only if you choose to stay.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I'll come at it from another angle. He claimed he was unhappy with his life and had an affair. Alot of people have affairs when they are unfulfilled in their marriage.

You seem like you are getting your needs met within your marriage so you have put up with some outrageous garbage.

But, if truly he had some dissatisfaction that contributed to his having an affair, has that hole been plugged? 

To me there are two types of affair scenarios.
1. You married a real bum, and this is who he is.
2. You married a guy who is not 100% a bum, but will be a bum if he's not satisfied in his marriage.

With #2 you have something to work with. Real change and satisfaction can be attained.
With #1, you can have him promise not to contact her or whatever, but you really can never gain true change and marital satisfaction.

Are you looking for real change and a truly fulfilling marriage or are you looking to preserve a lifestyle or situation.... Hard to tell from your posts.


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## rileyawes (Jun 28, 2016)

Your husband is a jerk.

I recommend this book for you:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00APGI85I/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

If he's not interested in the OW and he's committed to reconciliation, he should be telling YOU when she contacts him, not waiting for you to ask and then lying. And yes, 80 phone calls is too many. He's still attached to her, he's still lying. You can't have true reconciliation without the truth. Drag him back to counseling. If he doesn't like what the counselor is saying, that means he needs to make some major changes. If he does, then it might work out. If he quits again, he's not committed to the marriage, only to himself and doing exactly what he wants to do and only that. I know it's not easy to leave, but he's turning you into an insecure mess. It'd be one thing if you were snooping and found nothing, but that's not the case.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Some feelings on reading this. 

1. It is sad to read about his infidelity, then lying, then continued lying. No one could realistically say he should be trusted and his inability to address this is sad. 

2. You did not discuss what occurred in counseling; it seems little is being accomplished there. There is no indication that any realistic acknowledgment of his fault was done there, at best, there seems to be a few perfunctory echoeing of what he was told to say, what I did was wrong, trust is required in a marriage. 

3. It's not clear whether he is mad at you or believes his infidelity is somewhat justified. If he has those concerns, they should be voiced in an honest discussion, to get at the heart of the marriage issues. He has a right to talk about what he sees wrong in the marriage or what he wants that he is not getting; he just does not have a right to carry on an affair and lie about it. Any discussion should carry though


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## KillerClown (Jul 20, 2016)

munchie said:


> I want to stay with him because I do love him, He doesn't return that love he's fun to be with So is a dog, is a great father He is setting bad example for his kids. Tell them about the affair and then see if they think he's a great father , is very smart (intellectually) He's pretty damn stupid at covering his tracks , is generous and loving to the other woman, and has (for the most part) been a good husband No he hasn't . We've been together for almost 30 years and married for almost 26. I'm genuinely sorry He's never physically or verbally abused me Because that would make him a criminal , has always been my champion and usually tries to make me happy Except he wouldn't leave the other woman . We enjoy traveling, going out to dinner, watching movies You can do that with the kids . No marriage is perfect - but I always felt that ours was pretty darn good You're lying to yourself .


I can't think of one good reason to stay in this marriage.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Your children are grown. He can still be a great father from a different address.

How is it loving and generous of him to have cheated on you and lied and deceived you and used personal resources to set her up in business? Face it - he was more concerned about her than you.

You can carry on as you have been and play detective for the rest of your life or you can set him free to lie and deceive someone else. Because there will be a 'someone' else. He has to share that fun-loving, generous nature with other women.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Life's short, you're wasting yours on a jerk.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

munchie said:


> I want to stay with him because I do love him, he's fun to be with, is a great father, is very smart (intellectually), is generous and loving, and has (for the most part) been a good husband.


I get the feeling your husband is quite adept at playing the role of loving husband/father. It sounds like you had a decent marriage, but he decided to cheat. Not only cheat, but lie to you about what was going on numerous times. I don't think he is necessarily who you think he is. Maybe he's just a cake eater who likes his comfortable life at home, cares about you and the kids, but is selfish enough that he wanted to indulge himself in an affair.

So, that means a selfish guy like your husband can APPEAR to have all the great qualities you say, but really be PLAYING you. He has repeatedly lied, you tolerated it, and now you are a wreck. He doesn't sound so contrite or remorseful. Again, he sounds like a self-serving, lying jerk. JMO.



munchie said:


> He's never physically or verbally abused me, has always been my champion and usually tries to make me happy. We enjoy traveling, going out to dinner, watching movies. No marriage is perfect - but I always felt that ours was pretty darn good. Obviously *except for his affair *which has tarnished things.


Uh, yeah ... affairs do have a way of "tarnishing" things. Big time. He's never verbally abused you? What do you call his denying, lying, and telling you crap that made you doubt yourself? Verbal abuse doesn't have to be just name-calling, you know. Or, apparently, you don't. 



munchie said:


> Last night he seemed upset and when I asked why - he said that he's got a bunch of things going on at work and some financial issues (clients not paying on time, etc.) that have him preoccupied. But I immediately think he's upset because maybe he's thinking about OW ... When I mention these things to him - *he gets annoyed and insists that I make his anxiety about ME *and that how he's feeling has nothing to do with me and or the OW.


So you are rightly upset and untrusting and he's deflecting it all back to YOU. So you are the nag who is annoying HIM. If you can't see this for the piece of crap he is, then my only suggestion is to stay with him, keep your worries to yourself (since it gets nowhere with him), and find a hobby to occupy your time.

Frankly, once a fundamental trust of marriage is broken, I wouldn't be worrying; I'd be royally p!ssed and visiting an attorney. Seriously.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

First off, I can hear your pain and anguish, and I am so very sorry this has happened to you, as you sound like a lovely woman.

Others have focused on great food for thought that you can absorb and hopefully benefit from. So I will leave that part alone. 

I want to address the side of it that is the social part. That was a factor as to why I stayed in an unhappy marriage for much longer than necessary. Everyone around you views you as the perfect couple, your kids included. Why do we put weight so much weight in that? I don't know, but a lot of us do. I did, and I still don't understand it from a logical side. The cheaters certainly don't though, do they? The faithful mate is stuck trying to keep up appearances for the cheater.

Looking back on it, I stayed so much longer than I should have, and everybody still went through the shock of us breaking up, so what really was gained?

It is time for accountability. If your children don't know their dad is a long term cheater that is in love with another woman, they need to. Your family and his family also need to know. Remove that from your burden to bare, let him bare it now. YOU need and deserve the comfort and help from your loved ones.

If you don't want to divorce, legally separate from him. Then sit back and watch and see what he does. I'm guessing he would run right to OW. I imagine you have run this scenario in your head and your are petrified at the thought of that. It is probably a big part of what you are trying to keep from happening. 

You deserve so much more. If he had come clean and truly cut off from her, then I could see working as hard as you have at reconciliation. He didn't. Do you really still want him? Only you can answer that. I wish you the best.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

This is an easy one...DIVORCE! 

You shouldn't have stayed in the first place, talk about a blatant lack of remorse!


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

turnera said:


> Tell us why you would consider staying with him. What are your reasons.


^^this

Personally, I would color myself gone in this situation.


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