# d-day plus 6 weeks. long story, can you help?



## betrayedandhurting

I’ve been following many of the online forums for victims of infidelity for about 6 weeks now but I thought I’d finally post my story, seek advice, and see if anyone has a story of hope for someone in my situation.

I have known my wife for 24 years, since we were 14. We moved on from good friends and began dating when we were 19 and married after both of us completed our college degrees at just age 24. Both of us come from stable two parent homes and my wife is described by everyone including me as being a loving, stable as rock friend and lover who you would consider a bedrock of ethical and moral strength.

For the first 5 years of marriage everything was beyond wonderful. We both worked full time in fulfilling careers, mine in the travel industry which took me on the road 2 to 3 nights a week. It didn’t matter because we traveled the world and enjoyed our time together every moment we could. When our first child, a daughter, came along we were overjoyed. My wife went part-time and we reveled in our child but things did change. Our focus was on our kid and less on us. It seemed natural because we were both so in love with her but for me it also felt a bit sad since of course there was less time for us than before. We had very little support from family to lean on for a variety of reasons and neither of us wanted to use babysitters etc. so our life became our little family, 100% of the time. My wife and I never stopped talking, we told each other we loved each other daily, still were sleeping together several times a week (but it did get routine) and spent hours every night talking about our day and our little girl, but not so much us. After about 7 years of marriage (2 years after my daughter was born) we both decided to try for another child but then one night I accidentally saw my wife had left open a web browser of her email and there was a very mildly flirty email from a colleague at her work commenting on how sad he was to see her walk away from the room they were in a work but “the view was good”. I was disturbed and so looked for more emails and found exactly one, one in which my wife told him the time it was “safe” for him to call when I would be out of town on work. I then went to our cellphone bills and saw indeed for about 2 months she was calling this guy several times a week, usually on her way to work in the morning, but sometimes at night when I was away. I immediately confronted her and she confessed immediately to an inappropriate close friend relationship to this man and said they confided in each other their concerns/troubles etc. and she knew I wouldn’t like it so she concealed it. I pushed more and she admitted that she knew he was attracted to her and had once tried to kiss her but that she never went there but liked the attention and it made her feel good to have someone else “like” her. Her “concerns” were basically feeling overwhelmed with a 2 year-old and feeling unattractive and getting older (my wife is beautiful and super-fit.) I briefly contacted the man and told him never to speak to my wife again (he was unhappily married with kids) and he readily agreed. I left for a day in anger and when I got home she was on her knees begging. She immediately quit her job without even going back and never contacted the man again and believe me I was looking. Within a month I viewed what happened as a “close call” that was totally out of character with the woman I loved and reasoned nothing else happened as simply my wife had no time for anything worse, she literally was never alone without our child except at work. Our marriage seemed to go back to a comfortable and loving normal.

A year later we welcomed our second child, our son. Again we were overjoyed. My wife had already found a similar new job but now worked even less, 2 days a week, just 16 hours a week. It didn’t matter because my career (which forever takes me on the road 3-4 days a week but leaves me off the other 3-4 days) was flourishing and I was making great money. We built a beautiful new and huge home from scratch and went about raising our family. My wife and I remained happy and close taking vacation after vacation with our children and attending to their every need. Private school, religious based education, sports you name it all continued for the next 6 1/2 years and I was happy in my marriage. My wife still fell asleep in my arms every night, had her every request met, and we still talked for hours each day about our days and mostly about the kids. I still felt like we lacked quality couple time and in the last 9 years since our first child was born we only “got away” for a night from the children perhaps 5-6 times (including one 4 day stint for our 10 year anniversary) which made me a bit sad but I always just felt it was our circumstance and the nature of the “phase” of our life. My wife in recent years did seem to getting more distant from me, in particular when I was on the road, seldom having much to say to me on our phone calls etc. and often acting passive aggressive towards me for small injustices she felt I had caused such as failing to clean up a room while she was at work, or if I failed to help her with the kids bath-time one night but mind you I have always contributed majorly to the family, worked my ASSOFF on the road to provide for my families every need and was the ultimate homebody running straight to my wife and kids at all times sacrificing friends and hobbies. During these years we still were having sex twice a week (she instigated 50% of the time, always seemed satisfied and never rejected me even once) but it was in hindsight still a bit too routine as seen by the occasional more passionate night.

All this leads me to 6 1/2 weeks ago when my life ended. Nearly 14 years into our marriage I tried to contact my wife while I was at work and had a schedule change. I was unable to reach her and when I used “find my friends” on my iPhone to look it said her location was unavailable. I couldn’t reach her for 4 hours. Finally she “reappeared” and told me she had dropped the kids off at her mother’s and had gone shopping. All those fears from 7 years ago came back. When I got home I checked the phone bill and found the same number over and over for as far back as records go. The calls were always when I was on the road or when I was home and having gone for a run. Usually about 2-4 a week, 5-20 minutes a shot. No text messages I could find by iMessages leaves no records. My wife locks her phone with the same password as mine and I searched it and found no evidence of anything but no evidence of a contact associated with the number she was calling. I paid to get who the phone belonged to and found it was a male colleague of hers and I prayed I was wrong but checking Facebook I discovered he was her “friend” but his wife (of course he was married with 4 kids) was not. Some more searching turned up a single message from 8 months back that was from my wife to him saying “please remember to delete all your calls and emails, no messages pls, I’m paranoid.”

That was enough for me so I confronted her and she briefly tried to imply it was a “inappropriate” friendship again but I called bull**** on that and left. In text messages over the next few hours she admited she was sleeping with the guy when I was gone, was completely sorry, would break it off instantly, quit her job and do whatever else I asked of her etc. She confessed it was for a year and they only slept together 3 times but had grown to be “good friends” but neither ever intended to leave their spouses, just it felt good to “be wanted.” She never blamed me but implied she often overwhelmed with stress from her job, all the school groups and voluntarism she took on, and slights she knew were not significant but left her feeling sad from our relationship. She said his pursuit made her feel “wanted and pursued” and it wasn’t about the sex but the feeling of being told she was “pretty/beautiful and having her feelings on stuff she didn’t talk to me about being validated.” I was beside myself with anger, rage, humiliation and sadly had to go one a work training event that would take me away from home much of the next month (with some visits back, the first such event in 10 years). Before leaving I called the man and texted him and he repeatedly apologized and said he loves his family more than anything and will never, ever contact my wife again. I told her I wouldn’t make any decisions until I was done with training but again she quit her job without going back, swore to no-contact, begged for individual and joint consoling and any other demand I placed on her. I left but of course obsessed and looked for more information. I discovered her lies when I realized I misread the message from Facebook which wasn’t from 8 months prior, but TWENTY months prior. I confronted her again and said if I got one more lie it would be over forever and she admitted the friendship began in the fall of 2011 and the physical affair in early 2012. So THREE years total, the physical was 2 1/2. It seems to jive with some other info I found. As for the sex it was about once a week or 3 times total a month with periods she said it would go 2-3 weeks without. During these years I cared for her dying father in my home, supported her in a breast cancer scare, went on countless vacations and shared a “happy” marriage. The affair was nearly all physical, they met in only 3 locations, his office, a car garage he owns at a race track that has a living space, or to my disgust my own home. She continues to deny anything happened in our bed but that a couch and area in my basement was defiled. She wore her wedding ring during the affair and in her mind “compartmentalized” the affair and tried not to consider the implications on our children or me of getting caught. To her it was like a drug being desired and the risk of the affair was part of the attraction. They never shared cards, gifts, never spoke of leaving spouses, never said they loved each other and never went a single time anywhere in public on a “date” etc. It was a “having your cake and eating it too” relationship. She claims it wasn’t even “good” sex (yeah right) but more the feeling of being desired like that created something she couldn’t resist.

She again quit her job without going back. She cut off all contact with the man. She dropped every single colleague she ever had from Facebook, opened all her accounts to me fully. She began buying book after book on affairs, went to consoling weekly the last month and a half and had me go 3 times with her. She replaced our entire bedroom set, the offending couch, took off her wedding bands and has begun wearing a simple one she didn’t wear during the affair, threw out every single pair of underwear and bras etc. she owns and replaced them with new and has written me daily missives on her love for me and the children, growing old together, never betraying me again etc. She never blames me for anything, accepts my un-real rage for hours on end without complaint, has shown sudden interest my job and attention to me when I’m gone or home. She plans on staying as a stay at home mother from now on and “devoting myself to you and the children until I die.” She has made an effort to create for the first time in nearly a decade weekly “date nights” with me using babysitters and family including nights away. She is throwing herself on me for sex and to my enjoyment (and simultaneous disgust and humiliation) it has become red hot for the first time ages going for hours on end non-stop as we never sleep. Every single thing she can do right after an affair she has done, it is almost TOO perfect if you know what I mean. No confusion, no hesistance to commit to me etc. just an instant “fix.” She feels like the core of her “weakness” is that since childhood she has sought out affirmation she is “good” and so overloads herself at work, as a mother, as a wife and gets depressed but has hidden it for years on end and it resulted in her creating a double life where she sickly felt she wasn’t hurting anyone but fulfilling her emotional void but having some validate her as being desired. She seems deeply remorseful not just for my pain but for the act and says over and over she wishes she could take it back.

My rage and anger hasn’t let up at all. I visited a lawyer to discuss what divorce would look like for me. It would be very, very bad finically for me and everything I built for 15 years would be lost. Millions. I can’t imagine NOT being able to see my children, the lights of my life, anytime I want to... that is a nightmare to imagine. But most importantly I can’t imagine living without my wife. She still is the most beautiful amazing person I have ever known, I just now know this secret side of her I don’t know how I can live with. I feel like the special center of my life I could always count on is gone forever now that I know what she is capable of, even IF (and that is a big IF) she doesn’t do this again. While I truly believe it is over with this man for now (and she is more than willing to blow him up if I want, I think I’m finally ready to tell his wife) I have no doubts that if we struggle in the future after things settle down (think in 2-7 years) that this might happen again. If she ****ed up now or showed any of the typical confused betrayer reactions so many of you have experienced it would be easy to let go of this life but she is doing EVERYTHING she can (but in perspective there is no much she can do) to make this better and provide me comfort. I have made it crystal clear I haven't decided if I want a divorce yet but no matter what if I ever now or in the future discover a single emotional or physical betrayal no matter how small her first warning will be when she is served divorce papers. 

I feel nothing I did deserved anything like this but in hindsight I regret thinking saying I love you 10 times a day was enough and not making it clear to her just how sexy and wanted she was, not making and forcing time together for just us, for keeping a life aside from our children a focus. She is to blame for all that too, but I felt it and did nothing for years and here we are.

I want to “fix this” and I want to love my wife again like I did. I just have no trust left and worst of all she isn’t my “special” thing anymore. I’m not proud to introduce her to people and talk about her anymore. I constantly obsess over their sex acts, her callous disrespect for me and the children in the way she conducted the affair and if I am a man compared to her lover (and I KNOW logically I can’t compete with the fake fantasy world they created in a real life marriage.) I just want to love her again and have her love me.

Is there even a chance? Am I wasting my time? If you told me in 2 years, or even 5 I would feel the way I did before I’d stay… but I am so doubtful. The worst moments for me now are the “good” ones that she is trying so hard to create, because I can’t help but feel that it pales in comparison to what my best friend, my best girl, my only love did to throw it all away for so long until I caught her.

I know this has been more like a novel, but its my life, and I am so very crushed. Is there any hope for me, my children, and my relationship?


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## EleGirl

What you are going through is very hard. It takes 2-5 years to recover from infidelity so you have hardly begun the process. The pain will be with you for some time to come. 

All those conflicted feelings you have about your wife are normal, it will be some time before you feel that you can even start to believe what she tells you. She has a long way to go to earn your trust.

How is she going to do as a SAHM, isolated, if she cannot function with an active life without getting herself into trouble?

It is possible to rebuild a relationship after infidelity, but it takes a lot of work. She has to run her life in a transparent manner so that she can never again hide anything from you. That's how you get honesty from a person like her.... they have to know that their ever action can be seen by the world.


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## Counterfit

" It would be very, very bad financially for me and everything I built for 15 years would be lost. Millions. I can’t imagine NOT being able to see my children, the lights of my life, anytime I want to... that is a nightmare to imagine."

If the above was not true would you divorce her? In other words if you kept the vast majority of the assets that YOU worked your ass off for and earned and had custody of your children would you divorce her?


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## Counterfit

EleGirl said:


> What you are going through is very hard. It takes 2-5 years to recover from infidelity so you have hardly begun the process. The pain will be with you for some time to come.
> 
> All those conflicted feelings you have about your wife are normal, it will be some time before you feel that you can even start to believe what she tells you. She has a long way to go to earn your trust.
> 
> How is she going to do as a SAHM, isolated, if she cannot function with an active life without getting herself into trouble?
> 
> It is possible to rebuild a relationship after infidelity, but it takes a lot of work. She has to run her life in a transparent manner so that she can never again hide anything from you. That's how you get honesty from a person like her.... they have to know that their ever action can be seen by the world.


By her history of past behavior this man's wife is clearly a woman who cannot ever be trusted.


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## Dyokemm

She is a serial cheater....you caught her the first time before she could take it to this level, BUT she would have done the same with POSOM 1 if you had not.

She apparently did not learn her lesson, as you thought she had.

Now she is literally repeating the same words and actions she did the first time....it worked once, so she undoubtedly thinks it will work again even though this time her betrayal was complete.

THREE YEARS....think about that for awhile.

The pain will lesson over time....its how the human mind functions...but will probably never truly go away, and you will probably never look at her the same way ever again.

Your old M is completely dead....even if you decide to stay and R, you will have to build a totally new relationship.

Ultimately, only YOU can decide what is best for you...all any of us can tell you is what we would do in your circumstances.

My maternal grandfather decided to stay married to my grandmother despite her multiple A's (including OM's child, my aunt)...it was a disaster for the entire family as he never truly forgave her or recovered.

My childhood has forever soured MY opinion (and I want to stress this is just my opinion, and not the only view you should consider) on forgiving infidelity.

I would D her for her MULTIPLE betrayals.

Money can always be earned again...and you can still be the best father imaginable to your kids.

Your self-respect, though, is something you can never 'earn'...it is something that resides in you naturally...it CAN be given away, just like integrity or honor though. 

That is something I cannot personally do.

It will be for you to decide if this is something YOU can live with.

I wish you the best.


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## Dyokemm

Oh...and I forgot to add.

Do expose POS to his BW.

She deserves to know the reality of her own life, just as you do.

Also, it is fitting justice on this piece of filth for the life long pain and damage he has inflicted on both your M and your children's family...not to mention the fact that this sh*tbag personally defiled your home with his presence.

And do not believe the lie that they never used your bed...in fact, your WW tacitly admitted it by replacing the bedroom furnishings...so it seems she still can't be completely honest with you, and is instead still doing as much damage control as she can get away with.


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## 3Xnocharm

She betrayed you for THREE years. This was not some random one night stand, this was daily lying and deception. I personally do not see how you could ever recover from that. But, if you are really serious about trying to R, then you are going to need to do something about your job. You cannot be away from home while you do this.


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## betrayedandhurting

3Xnocharm said:


> She betrayed you for THREE years. This was not some random one night stand, this was daily lying and deception. I personally do not see how you could ever recover from that. But, if you are really serious about trying to R, then you are going to need to do something about your job. You cannot be away from home while you do this.


Well not traveling weekly for my job is not an option. The job IS the travel. Great.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## betrayedandhurting

Dyokemm said:


> Oh...and I forgot to add.
> 
> Do expose POS to his BW.
> 
> She deserves to know the reality of her own life, just as you do.
> 
> Also, it is fitting justice on this piece of filth for the life long pain and damage he has inflicted on both your M and your children's family...not to mention the fact that this sh*tbag personally defiled your home with his presence.
> 
> And do not believe the lie that they never used your bed...in fact, your WW tacitly admitted it by replacing the bedroom furnishings...so it seems she still can't be completely honest with you, and is instead still doing as much damage control as she can get away with.


I *made* her replace it because I agree I'm sure it happened in our bed as often as they came to the house and the particular claims of where they did the deed are weird in the extreme as there are "better" places in my home. If I could sell and buy a new place tomorow I would but this was our custom dream home we built and Id take a bath. Oh well it will get sold in the divorce anyways.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

betrayedandhurting said:


> Well not traveling weekly for my job is not an option. The job IS the travel. Great.


In "Surviving An Affair", Dr. Harley says that some of his clients who do reconcile travel a lot structure their lives so that both spouses travel together most of the time even when it's for one of their's work. I'm not advocating this... just bringing it up. 

It seems that this would only work for couples with out children at home anyway.


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## EleGirl

Counterfit said:


> By her history of past behavior this man's wife is clearly a woman who cannot ever be trusted.


I don't need to be schooled because I'm not just screaming divorce. The OP can use all kinds of input to mull over what he's going to do.

I do know couples who have been able to repair their marriages after even worse situations than what the OP is dealing with.


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## EleGirl

betrayedandhurting said:


> I *made* her replace it because I agree I'm sure it happened in our bed as often as they came to the house and the particular claims of where they did the deed are weird in the extreme as there are "better" places in my home. If I could sell and buy a new place tomorow I would but this was our custom dream home we built and Id take a bath. Oh well it will get sold in the divorce anyways.


Yes you'd lose a lot, about half of your assets. Then there is spousal and child support that will most likely be ordered in your case.

You'd have half of what you now have. Can you live with that?

One thing people here suggest is a post-nup. That if you agree to reconciliation, she signs a post-nup that she gives up all or most or her right to marital assets if she cheats again. Just throwing it out as an idea.


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## D.H Mosquito

When my wife cheated it wasn't because she wasn't getting enough love and security it was i wasn't exciting enough in bed, she never told me this until all was discovered and once other issues fixed then i opened up sexually to other things for her role play more dominant etc maybe not the case with her but if she does love you maybe it was the action she needed rather than the other man


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## aug

betrayedandhurting said:


> My rage and anger hasn’t let up at all. I visited a lawyer to discuss what divorce would look like for me. It would be very, very bad finically for me and everything I built for 15 years would be lost. Millions. I can’t imagine NOT being able to see my children, the lights of my life, anytime I want to... that is a nightmare to imagine. But most importantly I can’t imagine living without my wife. *She still is the most beautiful amazing person I have ever known*, I just now know this secret side of her I don’t know how I can live with. I feel like the special center of my life I could always count on is gone forever now that I know what she is capable of, even IF (and that is a big IF) she doesn’t do this again.



After all these years of cheating and lying to you, you still think she is this "beautiful amazing person"? Really?

Wrap your head around the fact that she's a serial cheater. She has a lover for over 3 years. Half of her head is devoted to her lover. You'll never ever remove that memory from her head.

Looks like she understands you well. Repeatedly, when caught she plays the game of remorse, and after she pacified you, she does it all again. Her history has shown it to be so.

When a person shows you who she is, believe it.


Have you informed her lover's wife? She deserves to know too.


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## LongWalk

Definitely inform OM's wife.


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## anchorwatch

betrayedandhurting, 

You're a commercial pilot? You might look at this couple's story. Its quite a bit like yours. 

You can find most of it here, in a post by his wife. He also posted at LS too...




Regret214 said:


> To put our past threads in one place......
> 
> *Regret214* (My Story...Part 1, Part 2, Part 3)
> 
> *SomedayDig* (My Side)


Good luck...


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## Dyokemm

anchorwatch,

You are right....with all of his travel, there are a lit of similarities to Regret's/Dig's situation....with one MAJOR exception.

Regret learned from her experience and truly reformed.

OP's WW is a SERIAL offender....same MO on BOTH occasions, not just in AP selection (work colleague) but even in how she reacts to 'fix' the problem and promises to never cheat again.

OP will gain a lot pf good insight and information from reading those threads, but he should never overlook the serial nature of his WW's behavior.

Regret learned and changed.

Can OP's WW?

Well she didn't after the first time she was caught, so should OP buy the same story she's putting out now?


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## Dyokemm

betrayedandhurting,

I just read through your thread over at Loveshack.

You posted a lot more over there, and I have a couple observations for you.

First, LS actually is not usually as blunt and direct as TAM on how to deal with infidelity, but even the posters there are telling you that you have a serial cheating WW who is following a pattern not just in her cheating but in how she is, as DKT3 over there put it, 'handling' you and the situation.

I'm actually a little surprised they have been so direct over there...there are usually some posters who will come on and say anything can be fixed and you need to accept your blame for your WW straying, but I have seen NO ONE say anything different to you over there than the advise you'll probably get here.

One other thing DKT3 said, I would also like to emphasize....you should now know that the first A was probably PA as well...she was just able to snow you enough to convince you it wasn't.

Also, one of the posters over there commented that you seem to be desperately searching for ANYONE that will tell you that you should stay in this M and your serial cheating WW will never do this again.

I agree with that based on your posts over at LS.

The sad fact is that based on what you have posted about her and your history, she is very likely to do this again after she feels safe in the the M again.

She truly is broken.

And as others at LS pointed out, there is a good possibility that there are more POSOMs that you do not know about, since her cheating was all about just sex and validation.


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## Dyokemm

Well I continued following your story on LS and I now see that you have found a poster who is disagreeing with everyone else about how this situation is probably irredeemable and your WW is too broken to fix, well at least in part cause he then backtracked a little.

I'm not surprised you latched right onto his advice, as I also saw that you admitted you were specifically looking for posters to offer hope.

The thing is, you will always eventually find a person to support any view on any aspect of human life.

The majority of posters there, and here if you return, will continue to tell you that you are being played by a serial cheating WW who is obviously doing everything she can to save her comfortable M with you and promising NEVER to do it again.


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## happy as a clam

OP, I am going to echo EVERYTHING Dyokemm said in his last few posts. The advice is spot on. I too am quite surprised at the nature of the majority of responses you are getting over on LS.

You can jump around from forum to forum; eventually you will find some one who agrees with you and tells you what you want to hear. But when 99% of total strangers are telling you the same thing, there MUST be something to it. We don't even know you or your wife, and yet everyone is basically telling you the same thing.

Of course, none of us can tell you what to do, but you came here asking for advice. I sincerely hope, for your sake, that you don't ignore it all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr Blunt

*



Is there any hope for me, my children, and my relationship?

Click to expand...

*
*Yes but the odds are against you.*

Your wife has a serious internal character flaw. The fix is mostly up to her.

My wife cheated for 1 year
I did not catch her she confessed in the beginning.
I divorced her in the first 6 months of the affair.
She came crawling back full of fear and an emotional wreak
She wanted to R
I said you will have to prove yourself for years.
*She proved herself for 4 years*
After 4 years I remarried her
She has never contacted the OM or mentioned his name in over 20 year or looked at another man with any desire.


Our relationship is good but I (we) have lost something. Some of the specialness that she had is gone forever and I also see her as weak and not someone I can lean on 100% in a serious crises. She is no longer 80%-100% of my world nor do I look to her to fullfill most of my needs. . We will never have a great marriage but we do have a good marriage and our children love us very much and we have a great relationship with our children and grandchildren.


Reasons for R are that I wanted to stop my life from going down, I wanted to have God to help me rebuild my life, I wanted to be contented, I wanted my children to not be too damaged, I wanted what has best for me, eventually I wanted what was best for my wife.
*God has blessed me for forgiving, giving mercy, and for looking to Him for my security and value.*


My opinion on your situation:

Your wife did not confess but tried to deceive and your wife had two affairs with a total of 3 years. You need to get legal documents that reflect the consequences that she needs to keep her accountable. In my case, I got legal documents that gave n me all the assets and full custody of the children. In other words if my wife cheated again then she would pay the full price and I would have the pain reduced. *Mercy with accountability is a very good approach.*



*If your wife is really dead serious about being 100% dedicated to you and the family then she will prove it not by her mouth but by legal documents and actions for years.*

*You need to get more self sufficient so that you do not have too much of your security and self esteem wrapped up in your wife. She cannot be trusted 100% with those very important needs in your life. God is the only one you can trust 100%*


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## warlock07

There is nothing she can do to fix this. Even considering R is idiotic at this point. 

The situation is not redeemable.

She is a serial cheater and very good one at that. She hides her tracks very well.

This would have been going on today if you had not caught her accidentally. She was spending money on this guy that you earned.

It is very likely that there are others that you do not know about. Random ONS or some local partners.

Both the times, you caught her by accident. There should be others that you did not catch. Her actions never changed during this.

She is doing what con artists do when they get caught. They turn to religion. She is doing the same. There is no honesty or integrity in her actions. She is a serial cheater. Not someone who accidentally cheated when drunk and blacked out. 

I have a couple of ideas for you. There are tools that can recover deleted iphone messages(Wondershare I think). Use them on her device to get any additional information. Tell her that you are going to do it, to see if she will confess anything more.

Schedule a polygraph test. Tell her that you are going to make her take a lie detector test and she should come clean if she has any lies remaining

Does her family know about what she did ? All her drama about being remorseful could be about saving face infront of her/your family and mutual social circle. Don't put too much stock into it.

There is no way you will ever be able to leave your town with running yourself sick with anxiety if she is cheating again.

And call this guy and get as much information about the affair as you can by threatening to tell his wife about the affair. Once you get the details on how deep the betrayal is, tell his wife. That poor woman is similar to you. Only she doesn't know about it yet. Please tell her.


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## warlock07

I've read this guy's thread at Loveshack. Waste of time. He will never leave her.


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## warlock07

> I know you'll all say that my very act of still being with her is "beta" behavior but let me say I have been agressive on what I want physically and emotionally and she is 100% behind what I want and you can tell she "likes it."


:slap::slap:

:banghead::banghead:

the irony!!!


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## Counterfit

warlock07 said:


> I've read this guy's thread at Loveshack. Waste of time. He will never leave her.


Agreed. Very sad - clearly a very good and decent man whose life has been, or eventually will be, ruined by his wife. He is in the dark wandering through the wilderness and cannot see the way out is to extract himself from this marriage.

I have never read a post which disturbed me more than his.


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## southernsurf

Sad, just a shell.he defends her and her actions. Now he will work twice as hard and long in hopes she won't cheat any more. He caught her 2x, we all know there's many many more. No way I woukd support her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm

OP admits he has been non-stop full of rage and bitterness since D-Day.

After reading his thread on LS, I am starting to wonder how much of that is self-disgust and hatred since he has already so clearly decided to try R with her, despite saying D is still a front and center possibility.

He seems almost desperate to find ANYONE who will tell him his WW can be fixed and he can return his M to the way it was before (or at least how he envisioned it since the reality is his WW was cheating for close to half his M in just the 2 A's he for sure knows about).


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## Mr Blunt

Ok I read a little of the LS thread by Betrayedandhurting (BAH)

He is very early in his pain and wants to know if there is anyway that they can save the marriage. He has even laid out the criteria that he feels must be met. In one of his last posts at LS he stated



> That said if this marriage is to be saved she has to find and deal with the flaws that cause her to seek affirmation and she has to be attracted to her husband and use me for satisfaction both emotional and physical.


 I still believe that the marriage can be saved but as I have stated the odds are against being saved. His wife seems to be doing a lot to indicate true remorse but what about 5-10 years down the road?


If she can get to the root of her flaws and take actions according to the PHD professionals I think that she has a chance at changing enough for the marriage to be saved.


I think that the part for BAH is for him to set up legal documents so that she will lose big time if she cheats again. She needs to prove her words and remorse for years before the legal documents will be eliminated. In other words she needs a very strong hammer being held over her head so that she follows through with the actions that she d needs to take. There is no guarantee that any spouse will not cheat. However, if BAH’s wife stands to lose her financial support and assets and custody of her children, the barriers to cheating will be HUGE!

*Some people think there is no chance for her and some like me think there is a small chance. None of us really know for sure. But her losing her assets and financial support for her husband plus losing custody of her children will certainly be a very strong deterrent.*

BAH is very shaken but seems to be able to write out his thoughts very well


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## Dyokemm

"I still believe that the marriage can be saved but as I have stated the odds are against being saved. His wife seems to be doing a lot to indicate true remorse but what about 5-10 years down the road?"

Mr.Blunt,

Does it strike you as in any way disingenuous since it is the EXACT same actions and even words as she used when he caught her the first time?

I know IMO this is a major red flag that she is likely to repeat again in the future...it's almost like she's reading from a pre-planned script that she put together in case she got caught.

It also really raises warning signs with me that she had so obviously learned from being caught the first time.

She was being extra careful, even paranoid, in reminding POS to destroy evidence.

This tells me she not only learned from the first time, but probably researched on ways to hide A's and is now a VERY experienced cheater.

In fact, I think OP was EXTREMELY lucky to catch this 2nd A at all.

And I would not be shocked to discover there have been other OM's she HAS been able to hide from OP over the years because she has become so good at it, combined with the fact that none of her A's were anything but pure sex, validation, and cake-eating....since they were not 'love' A's there is simply no reason that she would show loyalty to AP by not engaging in A's with other POS's at the same time...the more sex and validation, the better, as it were.


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## betrayedandhurting

Thank you all, I know you are all right... That it is unforgivable and I should divorce her. It's been 7 weeks and I've know this woman for 24 years, since we were 14 years old. We have been together for 20 years. Married for 14. Maybe I just need more time to just say "enough." Thanks for your input. 

Many people point to her first affair, and likely I did get snowed. From what evidence I could find it lasted under 2 months when I discovered it. There was no evidence of a PA or even that it gone to a sexualized EA. It was mainly an very inappropriate friendship talking about their marriages with him mildly flirting (he wasn't as aggressive a man as the latest guy). During that time my wife had little time to carry on a PA for a variety of reason and my true belief is that a PA did NOT occur but I do think it was heading a bad direction and given what I know now about my wife I have no reason to believe at a minimum it wouldn't have at some point become sexual. It did get thrown under a rug in hindsight but when people say my wife is a "serial cheater" I can't help but justify it in the sense that my wife's sick mind didn't end up going through with it so to her this huge PA she got into now was her first and only "real" affair and now of course the consequences and pain have no comparison with what happened 7 years ago. I wonder if because we didn't do counseling or really address what happened those 2 months 7 years ago it allowed these weaknesses to finally manifest and destroy our lives. It also, sickly I get it, makes me wonder if that means if we properly confront what allowed my wife to do this horrible LTA we might have a chance moving forward. 

I know my story is old as time. My wife was always the good one. Reserved, not the highly sexualized hard charger at parties or something. She was a shy "good girl" who was a solid bedrock of our marriage, the community etc. if and when our mutual friends learn about this not a single one won't be stunned, no one would ever say "I always knew she could be like that." This really is like a secret life / personality no one including me understood could or did exist


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## betrayedandhurting

Mr Blunt said:


> *Yes but the odds are against you.*
> 
> Your wife has a serious internal character flaw. The fix is mostly up to her.
> 
> My wife cheated for 1 year
> I did not catch her she confessed in the beginning.
> I divorced her in the first 6 months of the affair.
> She came crawling back full of fear and an emotional wreak
> She wanted to R
> I said you will have to prove yourself for years.
> *She proved herself for 4 years*
> After 4 years I remarried her
> She has never contacted the OM or mentioned his name in over 20 year or looked at another man with any desire.
> 
> 
> Our relationship is good but I (we) have lost something. Some of the specialness that she had is gone forever and I also see her as weak and not someone I can lean on 100% in a serious crises. She is no longer 80%-100% of my world nor do I look to her to fullfill most of my needs. . We will never have a great marriage but we do have a good marriage and our children love us very much and we have a great relationship with our children.




This is my fear. In my warped mind I see my wife now on her knees begging, finding her in the shower weaping on her floor etc. as she does everything I ask, anything to save the marriage and J see a chance that with professional help and God she might have a chance to change. A chance, not a guarantee. In the meanwhile I can't imagine not forever having some level of distrust and from now on Ill always be "checking." That SUCKS. Also I viewed my wife as the 100% center of my life! clearly the BETTER half, the one thing I could depend on, and I was so proud to talk about her and walk into a room with her. Now I'm just ashamed and humiliated and I have difficulty talking about her to even people that don't know anything about this. We aren't special anymore, just another ****ed up couple. For me I find it far more likely my wife won't cheat again than I could find that feeling and trust I had back again. That's a sad thought but the "books" and "survivors" say recovery takes like 2+ years and heck I'm at 7 weeks so I don't know what to do... But I'm very pessimistic at being able to find "special" and "trust" again.


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## farsidejunky

That was two long replies of "I know she is a serial cheater, but...". No matter whether she demonstrates remorse or not, she may not be ABLE to change. Either way, your wife is clearly a pro at this.

You clearly see it; now what are you going to do about it?

Good luck, man.


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## Lostinthought61

If she will do anything....I would want a could things
Write a timeline of everything...
Willing to submit to a polygraph 
Willing to expose herself to friends and family
Willing to write a no contact letter to OM


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## seasalt

I've always thought that the worst thing about a relationship after a betrayal is not you looking at her and wondering what is she thinking but rather her lookin at you and you both know what you are thinking.

Your life is forever changed. Make sure the new reality is something you can live with.

Seasalt


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## anchorwatch

betrayedandhurting said:


> I viewed my wife as the 100% center of my life! clearly the BETTER half, the one thing I could depend on, and I was so proud to talk about her and walk into a room with her.


There's a good part of your problem. You depended on her for who you were. You let her define you and your relationship. You put her on a pedestal. Even now, you continue in this vein. 

I suggest you research the detrimental effects on relationships and the partners where one does this.


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## southernsurf

betrayedandhurting said:


> Thank you all, I know you are all right... That it is unforgivable and I should divorce her. It's been 7 weeks and I've know this woman for 24 years, since we were 14 years old. We have been together for 20 years. Married for 14. Maybe I just need more time to just say "enough." Thanks for your input.
> 
> Many people point to her first affair, and likely I did get snowed. From what evidence I could find it lasted under 2 months when I discovered it. There was no evidence of a PA or even that it gone to a sexualized EA. It was mainly an very inappropriate friendship talking about their marriages with him mildly flirting (he wasn't as aggressive a man as the latest guy). During that time my wife had little time to carry on a PA for a variety of reason and my true belief is that a PA did NOT occur but I do think it was heading a bad direction and given what I know now about my wife I have no reason to believe at a minimum it wouldn't have at some point become sexual. It did get thrown under a rug in hindsight but when people say my wife is a "serial cheater" I can't help but justify it in the sense that my wife's sick mind didn't end up going through with it so to her this huge PA she got into now was her first and only "real" affair and now of course the consequences and pain have no comparison with what happened 7 years ago. I wonder if because we didn't do counseling or really address what happened those 2 months 7 years ago it allowed these weaknesses to finally manifest and destroy our lives. It also, sickly I get it, makes me wonder if that means if we properly confront what allowed my wife to do this horrible LTA we might have a chance moving forward.
> 
> I know my story is old as time. My wife was always the good one. Reserved, not the highly sexualized hard charger at parties or something. She was a shy "good girl" who was a solid bedrock of our marriage, the community etc. if and when our mutual friends learn about this not a single one won't be stunned, no one would ever say "I always knew she could be like that." This really is like a secret life / personality no one including me understood could or did exist


Step 1 is stop defending her and trying to diminish the crime. It happened and it’s very real. Marriage # 1 is officially over. The pain and betrayal is embedded in your mind now, and part of your life for your eternity. The question is what does the future life look like for you? Slow down, Take a step back and look at how you view the 1st affair in light of affair #2. Don’t set yourself up for the big fall. Take control of your life. She will set herself up with some else with deep pockets at the right time, getting caught has over whelmed her.


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## Thor

B&H, I am an airline captain. Though we pilots have a reputation of sleeping around with flight attendants (which may have been earned by flight crews in the 50's, 60's and 70's), my observation is that infidelity is fairly low amongst pilots today, but infidelity amongst pilot's wives is rampant.

You know the old flight crew joke: If you're coming home unexpectedly early, call your wife so she can get her boyfriend out of the house before you get there.

I know 3 pilots personally who didn't follow that plan and they literally walked in on their wife in bed with another man. I came home early and caught my wife in the middle of a significant deception (not involving OM) which is probably going to be the final straw in our marriage. I know many other pilots whose wives cheated on them. Far more than the national averages would predict.

I believe your only chance to save your marriage is to put it on the line. That is, you file for divorce and make your wife prove she is worthy of you. Your wife is a proven serial cheater. At least one AE and at least one PA. As we see here all the time, almost always there is far more than what the betrayed knows about at first. As a serial cheat, your wife's mindset is not one of putting you and the marriage uppermost in priority. Her desires, her pleasures, etc are uppermost.

What I mean is this. She is not in the habit of thinking "What would be best for my family and my marriage? What can I do to be a great wife and partner to B&H?" Instead, her habit is to think "How can I get what I want? What do I do to fool B&H? What deception or lie will satisfy him? How can I hide this truth from him so that I can keep getting what I want?".

So, right now I would not believe she is genuinely looking to do what is right for you. *Instead she is scheming how to do the minimum necessary to keep you from divorcing her.*

You should read the book "After the Affair" by Janis Spring. There are numerous other good books but that is a quick read and hits some critical concepts if your marriage is to survive.

Travel is horrible on families. We were all drawn into the rationalization that we are gone on a 3 day trip but then home for 3 or 4 days solid. Psychologists have found that women especially don't do well with their husband away like that. I could write a lot more about this topic, but the bottom line is that your wife is one of the women who deals with a pilot schedule by playing while you're away. I am not optimistic she will change. She may appear to change, but you will have to keep a real tight leash on her for several years in order to rebuild trust.

Is there any way you can get a different position which doesn't travel as much? Perhaps asst. chief pilot or get into the training department?


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## Thor

Right now I think your first steps are to get into MC with her and into IC yourself. Read the book "After the Affair". Put in place extreme transparency, which means you have full access to everything electronic. All her passwords, everything.

Without her knowledge institute some surveillance. Put a keylogger on the home computers to catch any secret emails, secret chats, etc. Hide Voice Activated Recorders where she likely makes secret phone calls when you're gone. Bedroom, bathroom, her office/hobby room. Hide a VAR in her car. That is probably the most important one right now. Cheaters talk in their cars thinking it is safe.

Search for member WeightLifter here who has a lot of top notch info on which VAR to buy and how to deploy them. (Sony VAR, with the best battteries).

When she is out, carefully search the entire house. You're looking for evidence of affairs. Souvenirs, poems, gifts, lingerie, etc. If she is truly repentant she will not keep anything. You're also looking for a secret cell phone.

Search her car thoroughly. You're looking for a secret cellphone as well as any other evidence.

Scour all the financial records. Credit cards, bank records, etc. Look for evidence of spending on her affairs. You're looking to get confirmation that she has told you everything.


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## Thor

You worry about all the money you'll lose if you divorce her. *There is no guarantee she won't divorce you later and take everything then!* Whatever assets you acquire, and whatever retirement benefits accrue, she will get half of those!

Getting out now is financially better than getting out later.

I've got just 11 years until forced retirement. A divorce will cost me at least $1million. It will mean I never really retire, I'll have to find another job at age 65. As a regional pilot (we're a Major by revenues but still called and paid as regional pilots) I don't earn what it sounds like you earn, and we have no retirement funds like the Majors have.

Divorce would be very painful for me financially, but it would be far worse if my wife left me 10 years from now.

You have no guarantee your wife won't leave you some time in the future. Don't make the decision to D or R based on the assumption she will never leave you!


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## dental

I sympathize with you, but it appears that you have a very resilient blind spot. I hope for you that your own 'fog' lifts very very soon. From your writing I get that you are a smart man, but it sound a bit rational and in denial for me. I wish you strength and wisdom in your nasty situation.


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## Machiavelli

BAH, there are always possibilities of reconciliation on some level or another. You just need to know what you're dealing with and what the odds are that you can achieve an acceptable outcome, a good outcome, or an optimal outcome. Your expectations may have to be adjusted. This may be hard for you to read, but it might give you some more detailed insight into the psychobiological realities you're dealing with here.



betrayedandhurting said:


> I have known my wife for 24 years, since we were 14. We moved on from good friends and began dating when we were 19 and married after both of us completed our college degrees at just age 24. Both of us come from stable two parent homes and my wife is described by everyone including me as being a loving, stable as rock friend and lover who* you would consider a bedrock of ethical and moral strength.*


Which leads to a few questions:
1. Were you her first?
2. Was she your first?
3. Christian? If so, which type (evangelical, RCC, etc)? I ask because it may or may not have significance to her actions and your personal feelings about your situation.



betrayedandhurting said:


> For the first 5 years of marriage everything was beyond wonderful. We both worked full time in fulfilling careers, mine in the travel industry which took me on the road 2 to 3 nights a week.


Thor's comments indicate you're a pilot. 
Did you start out in the military or via a commercial school?
Was this before or after the marriage?



betrayedandhurting said:


> It didn’t matter because we traveled the world and enjoyed our time together every moment we could. When our first child, a daughter, came along we were overjoyed. My wife went part-time and we reveled in our child but things did change. Our focus was on our kid and less on us. It seemed natural because we were both so in love with her but for me it also felt a bit sad since of course there was less time for us than before.


So the daughter appears in year five. You obviously know now that this wasn't a hot idea to not use baby sitters to get some alone time with the wife. As for making the kids the focus, having sexual exclusivity and legitimate children with a woman is the only reason to get married in the first place, so it is completely natural for kids to become the main thing in the marriage when they are very small.



betrayedandhurting said:


> After about 7 years of marriage (2 years after my daughter was born) we both decided to try for another child but then one night I accidentally saw my wife had left open a web browser of her email...I immediately confronted her and she confessed immediately to an inappropriate close friend relationship... he was attracted to her and had once tried to kiss her...liked the attention and it made her feel good to have someone else “like” her. Her “concerns” were basically feeling overwhelmed with a 2 year-old and feeling unattractive and getting older (my wife is beautiful and super-fit.)


She wasn't feeling unattractive, she was getting a rush from getting attention from and then sex from a man she considered to be attractive. These were the excuses her "rationalization hamster" spun up to ease her own guilt and justify to herself that she wasn't really an adulteress.

And she was an adulteress. Women don't continue friendships with friend-zoned men who try and fail to go physical. This is an iron law. They were having sex. No question.



betrayedandhurting said:


> A year later we welcomed our second child, our son. Again we were overjoyed.


Whether you R or D, you need to DNA this one, because the timing is just too risky. I don't care if he looks like your clone and scratches his crotch exactly the same way as you. In fact, do them both, because there is a high possibility that you are a cuckold in the true meaning of the word. This must be done, because you need to know that you have genetic offspring.



betrayedandhurting said:


> My wife had already found a similar new job but now worked even less, 2 days a week, just 16 hours a week. It didn’t matter because my career (which forever takes me on the road 3-4 days a week but leaves me off the other 3-4 days) was flourishing and I was making great money.... My wife in recent years did seem to getting more distant from me,


This distancing is evidence of post-coital bonding to another male(s) after sex without rubbers. It has to do with the release of the bonding chemicals oxcytocin, vasopressin, and endorphins after orgasm, along with the absorption of mood elevating chemicals found in semen, such as the anti-depressant serotonin, oxytocin (again), estrone (mood elevator), and melatonin (sleep). And testosterone, which increases sex drive for round two and three. The more sex, the more bonding with the new guy(s), the more distancing from the betrayed H. It's a natural process that's intended to bind mother and father together, since sex = kids in nature.



betrayedandhurting said:


> in particular when I was on the road, seldom having much to say to me on our phone calls etc. and often acting passive aggressive towards me for small injustices she felt I had caused such as failing to clean up a room while she was at work, or if I failed to help her with the kids bath-time one night


Again, this is all rationalization hamster stuff that women do for their own mental health. All wives hate cheating slvts, including the wives who are cheating slvts. Seizing on these insignificant trivialities as great insults to them is how they justify their inability to resist their chemical and psychological addiction to getting plowed regularly by strange guys. 

Look back into your past and consider all the times your wife was distancing, b¡tching at you about a trifle, and providing halfassed mercy sex. These are the times she was involved with somebody else long enough to induce bonding response.



betrayedandhurting said:


> During these years we still were having sex twice a week (she instigated 50% of the time, always seemed satisfied and never rejected me even once) but it was in hindsight still a bit too routine as seen by the occasional more passionate night.


She was getting much more exciting sex elsewhere.



betrayedandhurting said:


> Some more searching turned up a single message from 8 months back that was from my wife to him saying “please remember to delete all your calls and emails, no messages pls, *I’m paranoid*.”


Actually, she meant to say "I'm experienced." Women who are just caught up in an "accidental" romantic affair don't think like this. This is the voice (and tactics) of cold experience.



betrayedandhurting said:


> She confessed it was for a year and they only slept together 3 times but had grown to be “good friends” ...*She said it wasn’t about the sex* but the feeling of being told she was “pretty/beautiful and having her feelings on stuff she didn’t talk to me about being validated.” I discovered her lies when I realized I misread the message from Facebook which wasn’t from 8 months prior, but TWENTY months prior. As for the sex it was about once a week or 3 times total a month with periods she said it would go 2-3 weeks without.


All lies. It was all about the sex. It was the best, most exciting, most fulfilling sex of her life. Adultery sex is always the best sex a wife can have, because its forbidden. The flirting, the teasing, accidentally grazing his crotch (is he hung?), the build up, the decision to meet, the sneaking around, shaving her muff, rolling on the stockings, going to meet without panties on. The constant anticipation, then the payoff, and then another week of using her vibe as she remembers last week and anticipates next week. And she can do all the kinky stuff with her OM(s) that she can never do with you, because it's safe to let the inner slvt come out and play. She can't let the father of her children ever see that side of her, so that is reserved for paramours and random pickups.



betrayedandhurting said:


> During these years I cared for her dying father in my home, supported her in a breast cancer scare, went on countless vacations and shared a “happy” marriage.


Depending on whether or not you were her first and when she figured out you were going to be a fast mover, you may have been nothing more to her than a beta-provider from the beginning. I'm not saying that's the case, but it has happened. A lot.



betrayedandhurting said:


> The affair was nearly all physical, they met in only 3 locations, his office, a car garage he owns at a race track that has a living space, or to my disgust my own home.


Again, more evidence that she has traveled the rodeo circuit a few times over the years. It's not about romance, it's not even about feeling good about being desired, it's all about getting the crack-like high that comes from sex with new and forbidden guys. When a woman climaxes, her body releases a load of dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin, and PEA, which amplifies the normal effects of the first three. The effect of these chemicals is intense and even more so during affair sex for the reasons discussed earlier. Your wife shows strong evidence of being a long term addict and her ability to drop her men cold and walk away at the drop of a hat when caught is the proof.



betrayedandhurting said:


> She continues to deny anything happened in our bed but that a couch and area in my basement was defiled.


The probably "christened" every room in the house, but your bed was the main place. It's just too deliciously nasty for either of them to pass up.



betrayedandhurting said:


> She wore her wedding ring during the affair


I'm sure they both thought it was hot to look down and watch her left hand fondle him. 



betrayedandhurting said:


> and in her mind “compartmentalized” the affair and tried not to consider the implications on our children or me of getting caught.* To her it was like a drug being desired and the risk of the affair was part of the attraction.*


My guess is that this is the first thing she's been honest about, she's just leaving out the unbridled kinky off-the-table-for-hubby sex.



betrayedandhurting said:


> They never shared cards, gifts, never spoke of leaving spouses, never said they loved each other and never went a single time anywhere in public on a “date” etc. It was a “having your cake and eating it too” relationship. She claims it wasn’t even “good” sex (yeah right) but more the feeling of being desired like that created something she couldn’t resist.


The experienced adulteress is about the clandestine operation of illicit sex. She doesn't want to blow up the gravy train (marriage), she just wants to be a slvt for a few hours.



betrayedandhurting said:


> She again quit her job without going back. She cut off all contact with the man.


Well, I'm sure it was tougher to drop the first few guys, because she really hadn't learned to override all that post-coital bonding. But, after you plant enough fence posts, you get calluses.



betrayedandhurting said:


> She is throwing herself on me for sex and to my enjoyment (and simultaneous disgust and humiliation) it has become red hot for the first time ages going for hours on end non-stop as we never sleep.


Hysterical bonding. Ride that pony until it drops, and then keep riding. Use the quirt if she slows down.

Your wife is a sexual adventuress to some extent or another and is hooked on it. Probably very hooked. And you have to travel. Think about it.

It has nothing whatsoever with you saying "I love you" too few times. More likely, you are coming across as delta or gamma to her, because you are way to much in her delta-provider box. To keep a happy relationship, it's best to maintain the rule of three on that. She gets one of those, for every three she initiates on her own with you. See, most women need a degree of instability in a relationship to feel attraction for their man. If she doesn't have to work for it some, and feel some tremors threatening to rearrange the terrain every now and then, she gets bored. The best way for this to happen is for her to see other women trying to move in on YOU.

What kind of shape are you in and how often do women hit on you?

You can no longer divorce her for cause of adultery, even if its available in your state, because you've copulated with her since you found out. That means you accept the affair, so far as the law is concerned. However, the spirit and letter of the marriage contract have been broken, IMHO. Even Jesus said a guy was free to divorce such a woman, and that was at a time when divorce was pretty much just turning her out on the street.

I don't believe in R when there are no kids, but I think it should be strongly considered when you've got kids. Which is why you need to find out if you actually have any kids. I agree with you that it's highly likely she will cheat again at some point down the road. She may have already physically, and I know she has in her memories. I might consider staying together with such a woman, if I valued her non-sexual side as much as you value your wife's. However, I would make it clear that while I might remain legally monogamous, I would not be going out of my way any longer to stay sexually monogamous. However, I would expect her to be a one woman man from now on; a move to traditional pre-1860 marriage as opposed to modern marriage, in other words. This might introduce just enough angst and instability to keep your wife interested. She'd be working for your attention instead of some other woman's husband's attentions. She won't like this, because other women are a threat to her and her kids access to your assets and earnings, but who cares what she thinks?

If you want to know how to handle a woman like this, look up "The Sixteen Commandments." It's pretty crass, and it's pitched to the dating crowd, but you're a smart guy. She was either always this way or her repeated sweeps outside the perimeter have rewired her to be this way, but you can probably play her like a violin if you want to go to the trouble and take the risk. However, I don't think your T levels are high enough to deal with her the way she wants to take it. 

As for her divorcing you later, she could divorce you now; it's just that she'll get more out of you later. On the other hand, that's not so bad if you're getting plenty of sex and your kids are getting an intact family. You've just got to weigh all the options, benefits, and risks. Think it out.


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## Dyokemm

B&H,

I agree with you that everyone will probably be stunned and shocked into disbelief that she could do this....that's because it is all based on the image she crafted and presented to you and the world.

Unfortunately, this was a carefully constructed lie.

It was part and parcel of the deception she used to hide her A's.

She is obviously a VERY experienced cheater who learned A LOT of lessons from the first time you caught her....unfortunately not the lessons you wanted her to learn and thought she had.

She learned how to truly hide A's...more than likely she researched on it to be extra deceptive.

Since her A's were all about cake-eating, forbidden sex, and validation, I really think you have to prepare for the possibility there are other A's you are not aware she engaged in yet...it is unlikely that you have caught the only two she had since she was this good at hiding them and deceiving you.

The only way you will know this for sure is to demand she take a poly.

Tell her she has one chance to confess everything, because if the poly reveals any more lies there will be no chance you will consider fixing the M with her...it will be straight to D.

In the end, I still think your WW may be too broken to ever fix this.


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## Thor

Machiavelli said:


> BAH, there are always possibilities of reconciliation on some level or another. You just need to know what you're dealing with and what the odds are that you can achieve an acceptable outcome, a good outcome, or an optimal outcome. Your expectations may have to be adjusted. This may be hard for you to read, but it might give you some more detailed insight into the psychobiological realities you're dealing with here.


:iagree:

That was a pretty tough 2x4, but all true.

B&H, you should read the e-book "Women's Infidelity" and "Women's Infidelity Part II" by Weiner. You can find them cheap/free online. The author wants way too much to purchase them directly from her. But she describes the thought process of many female cheaters, and I think your wife fits.


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## Mr Blunt

> Originally Posted by Mr Blunt
> 
> 
> Yes but the odds are against you.
> 
> Your wife has a serious internal character flaw. The fix is mostly up to her.
> 
> My wife cheated for 1 year
> I did not catch her she confessed in the beginning.
> I divorced her in the first 6 months of the affair.
> She came crawling back full of fear and an emotional wreak
> She wanted to R
> I said you will have to prove yourself for years.
> She proved herself for 4 years
> After 4 years I remarried her
> She has never contacted the OM or mentioned his name in over 20 year or looked at another man with any desire.
> 
> 
> Our relationship is good but I (we) have lost something. Some of the specialness that she had is gone forever and I also see her as weak and not someone I can lean on 100% in a serious crises. She is no longer 80%-100% of my world nor do I look to her to fullfill most of my needs. . We will never have a great marriage but we do have a good marriage and our children love us very much and we have a great relationship with our children.
> 
> 
> *By B&H*
> This is my fear. In my warped mind I see my wife now on her knees begging, finding her in the shower weaping on her floor etc. as she does everything I ask, anything to save the marriage and J see a chance that with professional help and God she might have a chance to change. A chance, not a guarantee. In the meanwhile I can't imagine not forever having some level of distrust and from now on Ill always be "checking." That SUCKS. Also I viewed my wife as the 100% center of my life! clearly the BETTER half, the one thing I could depend on, and I was so proud to talk about her and walk into a room with her. Now I'm just ashamed and humiliated and I have difficulty talking about her to even people that don't know anything about this. We aren't special anymore, just another ****ed up couple. For me I find it far more likely my wife won't cheat again than I could find that feeling and trust I had back again. That's a sad thought but the "books" and "survivors" say recovery takes like 2+ years and heck I'm at 7 weeks so I don't know what to do... But I'm very pessimistic at being able to find "special" and "trust" again.



You will have a level of distrust for many years. However, it is possible that you can get back 80-90% trust if she proves herself for many years. If she gets you up to 80-90% trust and you get stronger, and you do not allow her to be 70-100% of your life, then the “checking” on her will not be a huge issue. 

You have lost some specialness with her that will not return. Right now you desperately want that specialness back but if you get stronger within yourself then that specialness will not be so urgent or mandatory for your well being.

At the very best recovery takes 2+ years but I think that is way too optimistic. You can make a lot of progress in 2+ years but recovery would take a lot longer IMO.

There are posters on here that have determined that you have no chance of R with your wife. I do not agree with them as I think that there is a small chance of R. However, neither of us know what is possible or impossible with you and your wife. I can give you my situation as I have over 25 years of R and maybe you can benefit from my experience.


*If you really want to test your wife’s sincerity and commitment then ask her to sign legal papers that would protect your finances and custody of you children.* That will tell you a lot. If she signs them then you know that she is serious. If she refuses then you will continue to be very unsure of her intentions.


I divorced my wife in the first 6 months, she signed every legal paper that I gave her, and had to prove herself for over 4 years. Your wife needs to go way beyond the norm to assure you that she is totally committed and sincere. If she does not then I would say that your chances of long term R with her will go from small to minute!


What your wife has done is to kill the possibility that you will ever trust her 100%. In fact I trust no one 100% but you and your wife can get the trust up to an acceptable level so that you have a good marriage. I am telling you that R is possible however not probable. In other words I would not bet on your wife and you doing everything that you need for years to save this marriage. I also know that I nor anyone else on this thread know for sure how your situation will turn out.
*Your marriage fate is mostly up to you, your wife, and how much good council you get for your mind, emotions, and spirit and apply that for many years.*


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## warlock07

Could it be that she worried about her social image rather than you ?

If you ask her to come clean to mutual friends and family, how do you think she will react ? I would ask her if I were you just to see if she would do that.(But actually don't)

She looked at you in the eyes everyday, laughed with you, was intimate with you while regularly sleeping with this guy without any issue. She had no issue all these years? Why is she crying now ?

Is she missing her lover or is she crying out of self pity ? Why is she even crying ? She has been doing it for a long time. I am even more pissed that her self pity is the focus of the situation. You are a side effect.


Also, discuss a lie detector and one final offer to come clean of all past indiscretions


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## LongWalk

Some posters have divorced their cheating wives but continued to live with them and demanded monogamy of them but made it clear that they would date. If the former WW, now cohabiting common law ex wife, protested that it was unfair, she was free to leave. If she had another man, the cohabiting ended.

There is a guy who works in the oil industry who has this set up. He is very philosophical about it. EmptyShellDad is this name.


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## Dyokemm

Well, looks like B&H has disappeared from both LS and here.

I hope he gets out of denial soon, but I think he was desperately searching for people to validate what he had already decided to do....which was to R with his WW....or should I say rugsweep because he is unlikely to demand a poly and truly dig into the full extent of his WW's betrayal.

And I suspect that even if a licensed psychologist were to tell him that his WW was unlikely to fundamentally change and this pattern was who she is, he would walk away and still stay because in his eyes she finally seems to 'really' get it.

Sad.


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## Thor

The sad part is that he has a chance, perhaps slim, but still a chance to save his marriage but only if he'll impose tough love.


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## Dyokemm

Well,

B&H returned to post on LS.

He did expose POSOM to his BW....apparently POS tried to confess part of the betrayal to her after B&H discovered the A to start gaslighting her, but B&H gave her the full story.

And, like I predicted, OP says he is going for R as he cannot believe her remorse is not genuine.

He did not mention it, but I would venture to say his decision to R is essentially a complete rugsweep and he will not be trying to find out if she has further betrayals she has managed to hide from him.

B&H,

If you come back to read this, I truly do wish you luck with R.

And I suggest YOU research and become VERY familiar with all the methods cheaters use to hide their A's.

If she is indeed too broken to ever truly stop, as many posters (myself included) believe, once she is comfortable in the M again she will look to gain the high from illicit sex and validation with OM's again....and she will apply what she has learned from you catching her again to be even more deceptive and hidden.

Prepare yourself to know all the tricks she might use.

Good luck.


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## weightlifter

Agree with blunt.

Yes there is a chance. It's slim.

From his description, I know what the OP does. It does not translate well into anything else. His career is cheating central on both sides.


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## weightlifter

Btw find out if 15 years is the line for perm alimony in your state. Act accordingly.


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