# Internet Infidelity



## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

First time posting, so I apologize in advance if it's incorrect. Christmas Day, I accidentally discovered my husband's cyber relationship . We had a similar experience in 2020, so my initial reaction was to tell him to leave. It's been a rough three weeks and my emotions are all over the place. We're recently married, a blended family, with two littles of our own under two years of age. I'm trying to understand what got us here. I was able to read through most the emails so I have a general idea of what took place, and it's extremely upsetting. He claims that he has an issue, and that he doesn't have a desire to be physical with anyone, that there's nothing missing in our relationship. He seems pretty remorseful about the situation, and has since reached out to the pastor for help. He has been reading daily scriptures suggested by the pastor, they recently met for lunch and set up a weekly group meeting for him to attend. My hesitation comes from this being our second trip down this road so a lot of the apologies sound like they're just on repeated, same with the promises that'll never happen again. It's difficult to overcome something like this when you don't have the support from friends, and I don't want to include family from the fear that they will treat him differently.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

hmmmmm.
i always try to read into these sort of things WHY he did it.
just because he "says" he does not know why, nor that anything you did or did not do sparked it....there has to be a reason.
Even if it is only "the thrill of doing something taboo" or the "thrill of getting caught".

Maybe he is just bored to tears, and needs some sexual thrills? Might have something to do with the covid lockup too....

First, i would have him polygraphed to make SURE it was not physical. then if he is clean, maybe offer to work on the thrill part of sex with him as a couple?

there are just THOUSANDS of sexy things you two can do that are sexually thrilling as a couple! No need to ever go outside the marriage

he seems to want more than just vanilla


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Do you have friends from church who can give you some help?
What happened after the first time? Were there any consequences for him? Did you separate or did he set any boundaries with the opposite sex?
Its hard when you have taken him back after one betrayal only for it to happen again. Trust must be shattered.

Presumably he was remorseful last time as well but here you are.

I wouldn't rush to take him back even if that's what you want, let him stew a while.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

Talker67 said:


> hmmmmm.
> i always try to read into these sort of things WHY he did it.
> just because he "says" he does not know why, nor that anything you did or did not do sparked it....there has to be a reason.
> Even if it is only "the thrill of doing something taboo" or the "thrill of getting caught".
> ...


Believe me, I've asked why a hundred different ways. The responses remain the same. There is no justifiable reason as to why.
Covid hasn't affected us, we both worked our normal schedules, and proceeded with life as usual. We even gave birth during Covid.

We do not have a vanilla marriage, quite the opposite actually. He is welcomed to bring new ideas into the bedroom.

He's began writing things down, and I respond. If I had to give you a reason as to why, it was because at 8 months pregnant I could no longer do the things he was accustomed to.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Do you have friends from church who can give you some help?
> What happened after the first time? Were there any consequences for him? Did you separate or did he set any boundaries with the opposite sex?
> Its hard when you have taken him back after one betrayal only for it to happen again. Trust must be shattered.
> 
> ...


My childhood church is small, less than 10 members who are all well over retirement age. With that being said, our services are now held online so that they aren't out and mingling. 

The first time wasn't near as significant as this situation. It didn't leave Facebook messages, and as soon as I found it- he immediately blocked her and she's been blocked every since. 

We did set boundaries, and we went almost two years without another incident. 

Trust is completely shattered, although he's transparent. He's always allowed me to use his phone at any time. I know the passwords.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Whatsnext87 How does he know the woman? Is she married? 

Did they ever meet?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Fool me once shame on you. 
Fool me twice shame on me.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

MattMatt said:


> @Whatsnext87 How does he know the woman? Is she married?
> 
> Did they ever meet?


He doesn't know her. Apparently they have chat rooms, you enter your username each time and throws you into a room. Nothing is saved, and it starts over each time?

Their conversations were through emails, a secondary account he had prior to meeting me was used. She was also in a relationship, and knew exactly what the assignment would be. 

He told me that she's from California, that was addressed in the chat room so I actually don't know if that's true.

The probability of him actually being able to meet someone is almost nonexistent. We are part of my parents Life 360 so our locations are always visible. He moved 6 hours to live in the town i was born and raised in. So he would have to take them to his place of employment, or into our apartment.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

Andy1001 said:


> Fool me once shame on you.
> Fool me twice shame on me.


I completely agree. But, at the same time I'm trying to make the best decisions for everyone involved. Upon finding this site, and reading what others have been through- some believing that they actually have an addiction and they need actual help.

Going almost two years without any interference. All the emotions that are involved. 

It's just a lot.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Whatsnext87 said:


> My childhood church is small, less than 10 members who are all well over retirement age. With that being said, our services are now held online so that they aren't out and mingling.
> 
> The first time wasn't near as significant as this situation. It didn't leave Facebook messages, and as soon as I found it- he immediately blocked her and she's been blocked every since.
> 
> ...


Yet he didn't stay off chatrooms knowing the dangers. 
Was it sexual? Were photos sent? 
The thing is that both times you discovered it. Neither time did he come clean and admit it without you finding out. 
Twice in 2 years is a lot.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Yet he didn't stay off chatrooms knowing the dangers.
> Was it sexual? Were photos sent?
> The thing is that both times you discovered it. Neither time did he come clean and admit it without you finding out.
> Twice in 2 years is a lot.


I didn't know that the chat room was a thing, when this came to light I asked him to show me how it works. He told me step by step how to as I maneuvered through his phone.

Yes, photos and audio.

I understand, what you're saying. It is a lot. It's also a lot for someone to tell you that you're doing absolutely nothing wrong but, that it's a problem within himself and that is why he took it upon himself to seek help.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Whatsnext87 said:


> Believe me, I've asked why a hundred different ways. The responses remain the same. There is no justifiable reason as to why.
> Covid hasn't affected us, we both worked our normal schedules, and proceeded with life as usual. We even gave birth during Covid.
> 
> We do not have a vanilla marriage, quite the opposite actually. He is welcomed to bring new ideas into the bedroom.
> ...


No. Don’t go down this path. Mutual respect in a relationship precludes intimacy outside the marriage. He knew and knows it is wrong, as he admitted in 2020, and now. 

Is he in therapy? I’m not sure that scriptures can help him resolve this problem at this point. 

He may say he has no desire to take things to a physical level, but he’s already opened the door to seek fulfillment from other women. It is not a huge leap to have an affair that goes physical if the “right” type of female crosses his path in the real world. Both EA and PA have a commonality that the cheater has no boundaries around their marriage, I think once those boundaries are crossed and violated, it’s easier to do it either way in the future, but these are things he needs to seek help for. You cannot fix this for him. 

I think you’re taking a gigantic risk if you give him another chance. At this point he’d likely think it’s just a cycle and you won’t actually leave him. So you are in a very precarious spot here.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

QuietRiot said:


> No. Don’t go down this path. Mutual respect in a relationship precludes intimacy outside the marriage. He knew and knows it is wrong, as he admitted in 2020, and now.
> 
> Is he in therapy? I’m not sure that scriptures can help him resolve this problem at this point.
> 
> ...


He is willing to go to therapy, we discussed that.

I'm not entirely sure what the scriptures help with but, it was suggested by the pastor during their lunch. I don't know how much he told him, I don't know much about what took place at their lunch at all. I do know that the pastor has arranged a weekly group meeting with other guys to help?

Today wasn't a good day, at this point I told him I thought divorce was the best option, and that I should have left the first time. He is getting ready to change jobs and go back in the field, that will put him away for 14 consecutive days. During that time I'll be able to clearly think, without him constantly pleading with me to stay, it'll also be an easier transition for the children if I do choose to make it permanent. 

My emotions are everywhere and I don't know what to do.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Whatsnext87 said:


> He is willing to go to therapy, we discussed that.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure what the scriptures help with but, it was suggested by the pastor during their lunch. I don't know how much he told him, I don't know much about what took place at their lunch at all. I do know that the pastor has arranged a weekly group meeting with other guys to help?
> 
> ...


You are right to have some time apart to think although 2 weeks can't possibly be enough. Please tell him you need space and that apart from seeing the children he isn't to contact you. 

It may help if you both went to see somebody rather than him going alone? Can you also speak to a trusted older person? 

Honestly I often hear on Tam that a cheater once found out goes to therapy or other help. So why didn't they go before when the temptation happened? Most just go so they can try and stay in the marriage. 
I also doubt that therapy will make a lot of difference. The reason they cheat do is because they want to. They choose to. They decide the risk of loosing everything is worth it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Whatsnext87 said:


> First time posting, so I apologize in advance if it's incorrect. Christmas Day, I accidentally discovered my husband's cyber relationship . We had a similar experience in 2020, so my initial reaction was to tell him to leave. It's been a rough three weeks and my emotions are all over the place. We're recently married, a blended family, with two littles of our own under two years of age. I'm trying to understand what got us here. I was able to read through most the emails so I have a general idea of what took place, and it's extremely upsetting. He claims that he has an issue, and that he doesn't have a desire to be physical with anyone, that there's nothing missing in our relationship. He seems pretty remorseful about the situation, and has since reached out to the pastor for help. He has been reading daily scriptures suggested by the pastor, they recently met for lunch and set up a weekly group meeting for him to attend. My hesitation comes from this being our second trip down this road so a lot of the apologies sound like they're just on repeated, same with the promises that'll never happen again. It's difficult to overcome something like this when you don't have the support from friends, and I don't want to include family from the fear that they will treat him differently.


So he cheated twice? What else do you need to figure out. This guy is serial cheater and will probably destroy you and your kids lives.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Whatsnext87 said:


> I completely agree. But, at the same time I'm trying to make the best decisions for everyone involved. Upon finding this site, and reading what others have been through- some believing that they actually have an addiction and they need actual help.
> 
> Going almost two years without any interference. All the emotions that are involved.
> 
> It's just a lot.


I'm curious, would you have the same reaction if he was smoking crack? Make no mistake infidelity is just as dangerous to your future.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Whatsnext87 said:


> He is willing to go to therapy, we discussed that.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure what the scriptures help with but, it was suggested by the pastor during their lunch. I don't know how much he told him, I don't know much about what took place at their lunch at all. I do know that the pastor has arranged a weekly group meeting with other guys to help?
> 
> ...


It’s not a good sign that he is begging. I think it shows more concern to himself than it does to thoughtfully understand what you need and what’s best for you, which in my opinion a HUGE indicator of actual remorse…understanding that the damage done cannot be taken back, and that what’s best for YOU is more important than what they want.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Did he initiate the sessions with the pastor or was that your suggestion? Was the counselling his suggestion, and did he actually follow through and start, or is it just a dangling carrot? Did you bring up counselling?

usually if there’s genuine remorse, they’re onto it pronto. Meaning, they themselves research, book, attend, involve you etc. otherwise it’s just like the addict who is going to face consequences. ‘I admit I have a problem, I’m going to go to rehab I’m going to stop I’m going to do this’. Except it doesn’t happen. It’s a list of ‘I’m going to’ or it’s the partner giving them a list of what they need to do.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

You have to think about what you want? 

If you want to save the marriage take him up on his offer of therapy & continue working with the pastor. Make his computer usage more public. Put the device in the living room so he has to limit himself to kid appropriate things. No more chat rooms. 

If he behaves like this at home, I'd be terrified to let him be gone for 14 days for work. There will be no oversight & he clear has no self control. 

If you are done, divorce lawyer here you come. Remember this was his 2nd bite at the apple. How may times does he have to prove that he can't be trusted?


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

Luckylucky said:


> Did he initiate the sessions with the pastor or was that your suggestion? Was the counselling his suggestion, and did he actually follow through and start, or is it just a dangling carrot? Did you bring up counselling?
> 
> usually if there’s genuine remorse, they’re onto it pronto. Meaning, they themselves research, book, attend, involve you etc. otherwise it’s just like the addict who is going to face consequences. ‘I admit I have a problem, I’m going to go to rehab I’m going to stop I’m going to do this’. Except it doesn’t happen. It’s a list of ‘I’m going to’ or it’s the partner giving them a list of what they need to do.
> 
> ...


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

D0nnivain said:


> You have to think about what you want?
> 
> If you want to save the marriage take him up on his offer of therapy & continue working with the pastor. Make his computer usage more public. Put the device in the living room so he has to limit himself to kid appropriate things. No more chat rooms.
> 
> ...


I agree. I asked him the same thing. I've asked him what makes him think he has the right to ask me to stay. I've asked him what makes him think he deserves another chance. 

And this is usually when he tears up, and tries to explain to me that it's a problem. That he has an actual problem, and that is why he is seeking help. That he thought he could do it on his own but, he obviously can't. 

And that is where I get torn because I don't have any issues with addiction of any sort. I don't know if there's an honest truth to what he's saying. Is it something that can be compared to alcohol or drugs?

The 14 days are going to make it break it. He managed all of this from his cell phone. If he can do it working 2 miles from home, he can do it working 6 hours from home. The location isn't going to make a difference. 

I understand that trust is the main concern, and at this point we have absolutely none.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

QuietRiot said:


> It’s not a good sign that he is begging. I think it shows more concern to himself than it does to thoughtfully understand what you need and what’s best for you, which in my opinion a HUGE indicator of actual remorse…understanding that the damage done cannot be taken back, and that what’s best for YOU is more important than what they want.


At the end of the day, it's not about me anymore. There are 4 little people involved, and every decision I make effects them. At this point, they are my main concern. 

I understand that he deserves nothing more than for me to lock the door as he walks out but, I took on half the responsibility of a step daughter when I said " I do " she hasn't done anything to warrant being put on the street. None of them asked for this.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

sokillme said:


> I'm curious, would you have the same reaction if he was smoking crack? Make no mistake infidelity is just as dangerous to your future.


I don't know what it's like to have an addiction, if this is just the same as drug use - is there something to the fact that he is trying to "rehab" himself through church and weekly meetings with the pastor? 

This doesn't endanger my children, but if he were using drugs he would have to go somewhere other than our apartment -


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> You are right to have some time apart to think although 2 weeks can't possibly be enough. Please tell him you need space and that apart from seeing the children he isn't to contact you.
> 
> It may help if you both went to see somebody rather than him going alone? Can you also speak to a trusted older person?
> 
> ...


He felt like he could fix it himself, and March would have been two years without a slip up. Once everything came crashing down again, that's when he realized that he isn't able to do it alone. He feels like he needs some kind of guidance, and he feels like being able to reach out to the pastor anytime he has ill thoughts will be helpful.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

So it’s a good start that he’s actually made steps to get help and followed through by himself.

A pattern of cheating can be likened to drug and alcohol addiction yes, as it is a detrimental habit in a family setting. It had destructive consequences for the user (or cheater) as well as their families and usually escalates over time. Also similar in that addicts of any sort, rarely seek help and follow through by themselves. So a cheater is rarely going to ‘book that appointment’ 🤷🏻‍♀️. They’ll cry and talk about it and maybe agree if it’s the spouse demanding it. Or even post about it. Example: I messed up I know I have a problem. People will advise therapy, and they’ll agree that it’s a good idea. But won’t even google a number, let alone make an appointment and stick at it for years. Treatment is often ‘mandated’ by external parties. Sometimes they go along until they are able to appease their families and employers for a bit. But again, a great sign in your case that he’s made the initial steps himself.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

You won't get much insight more than "just leave/divorce" from places like this...I am not being critical, and know that these responses come from good people that generally do care and want to try to help...

Here is something to think of...

There are women out there claiming their husbands have a shrine built in the house for them and only them and do not ever even think of or see another woman in any way other than someone on the street...Yet, if they knew what their husbands say or do when their wives aren't around, it would probably make what the OP's guy is doing look like child's play...

We, as humans are really not biologically driven to see no one else in the world but one person...If you consider us no more than a species just like any other, monogamy/exclusivity makes no sense on a host of levels...If animals had to abide by those rules, most would run themselves extinct in no time flat...Trying to suppress that, as we need to in order to keep peace with our SO, takes an enormous amount of control, because it's not programmed into us to act that way...

Ironically, that drive that our Creator, placed into all of us, is the same that is getting your guy in hot water...So he is in essence asking for forgiveness for indulging, from a representative of the same Creator that put that fire in his nuts in the first place....What a mind eff, right??

I get it...no one wants to know what's happening in the other person's mind...and no one wants to be disrespected and humiliated by all of this...It's terrible and I am fully sympathetic....

I think it boils down to 2 choices...

-Dump him and maybe you find another guy who is either better at hiding it, or just thinks about it in his head and has enough control not to act on it as your H did.. Or maybe you find another guy and he starts screwing your best friend or one of his co workers...Or maybe you find another guy that that isn't that sexual in the first place, so you don't have to worry about all the other stuff, but he's a dud in bed and would rather play video games that screw you...

-Option 2 is you decide to take this head on(presuming you like all the other aspects about him and the marriage), and try to figure out what he's "missing" in his life to resort to this behavior...It will be a challenge, but if you can get through that, you can better move on and perhaps repair this...

At the end of the day, as hard as it is at times, when people find the person they truly value the most, they don't do stuff that could jeopardize it...Sure, there are sociopaths that do anything to anyone, but I don't think this guy falls into that category and those people are pretty rare...For whatever reason, he doesn't value you enough to not engage in behavior that could cause you to leave him...That's the crux of this and if you want to fix it, that's the route to take...If you are done, then don't bother and go with plan A


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

hamadryad said:


> You won't get much insight more than "just leave/divorce" from places like this...I am not being critical, and know that these responses come from good people that generally do care and want to try to help...
> 
> Here is something to think of...
> 
> ...


Thank you for the solid outlook.

Our marriage is fine. To the outside world we have what everyone only dreams of. He'll do anything I ask of him, he helps around the house, and he holds down a job with decent income. 

Each incident happened when I was in the late stages of pregnancy. His first incident came at 7 months pregnant with our first child together. I accidentally found that before it had the chance to get completely going, she had the chance to send one picture of her unmentionable, and that was it.

The second incident I unknowingly was only 6 days away from giving birth to our second child together. It went roughly a month before again I accidentally stumbled upon it. So much more effort was put into it, there were photos shared, audio clips, Bluetooth apps downloaded, and acts of masturbation.

He admitted that the conversation would not have ended that day had I not seen it, that he couldn't tell me that they would still be chatting today but, that it definitely wouldn't have ended then.

So to me, the trigger is pregnancy. He told me that it has nothing to do with the way I look during pregnancy but, that positions are limited, some things make me sick, and that I just don't act like I always enjoy it. 

I understand that but, I don't find it as a reason to justify any of this. 

Also, I was already married to video game husband. That was divorce # 1.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I stayed with a serial cheaters for decades because I didn’t want to break up my family and because I thought I could fix the marriage if I just tried harder. But I was working alone, with absolutely no help from him, so ultimately that failed and long after I should have I finally got out. My husband fought a divorce from the beginning. He liked being married but he also liked the excitement of cheating. At least your husband is attempting to get help (mine didn’t) but I’m not buying his excuse of an addiction. It only happens when you’re pregnant and can’t do exactly what he wants. That doesn’t sound like an addiction to me. If you stay, I strongly suggest that you never again trust him the way you once did. You now know what he’s capable of so be very cautious if you decide to remain married.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I agree with this. I highly doubt this is an addiction. Often these days people use that as an excuse to cheat, remember Tiger woods? The fact that he does it due to him not being able to have the amount and variation of sex as usual is concerning because there will be times when this happens in a marriage due to all sorts of things so the danger is that he will do it again. 
So yes he can help it and he chooses to do it and he may well choose to do it again despite everything. 
Whether the meetings etc help it's hard to say, maybe he needs an accountability partner from church. 

If you stay (and believe me I completely understand about the children not deserving their lives to be blown up) you may have to accept that you may never be able to trust him completely again. It's so easy to cheat in that way these days. Phones, computers, you don't even have to leave the house to cheat. You can't watch him 24/7 and why should you have to? 

So you may decide to stay with him and hope for the best because of the children, many have done that. He may or may not over come his 'problem' whatever he means by that. The fact is he chooses to cheat like so many others. Could be lack of integrity. Lack of moral values. Lack of self control. Character weakness. Complete lack of boundaries with the opposite sex. Many reasons. 
You have to make it clear if you stay that the divorce papers will be served immediately if it EVER happens again. No question. Hopefully he will put his children first next time.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> I stayed with a serial cheaters for decades because I didn’t want to break up my family and because I thought I could fix the marriage if I just tried harder. But I was working alone, with absolutely no help from him, so ultimately that failed and long after I should have I finally got out. My husband fought a divorce from the beginning. He liked being married but he also liked the excitement of cheating. At least your husband is attempting to get help (mine didn’t) but I’m not buying his excuse of an addiction. It only happens when you’re pregnant and can’t do exactly what he wants. That doesn’t sound like an addiction to me. If you stay, I strongly suggest that you never again trust him the way you once did. You now know what he’s capable of so be very cautious if you decide to remain married.


In the defense of the pregnancy being the trigger, we have literally been pregnant most of our relationship. We've been through two pregnancies in 2.5 years.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> I agree with this. I highly doubt this is an addiction. Often these days people use that as an excuse to cheat, remember Tiger woods? The fact that he does it due to him not being able to have the amount and variation of sex as usual is concerning because there will be times when this happens in a marriage due to all sorts of things so the danger is that he will do it again.
> So yes he can help it and he chooses to do it and he may well choose to do it again despite everything.
> Whether the meetings etc help it's hard to say, maybe he needs an accountability partner from church.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what constitutes an addiction. The responses as what the temptations are were porn and chatrooms but, neither of those things just fall into your lap without going to look for them. It's not like those things are in your face every time you turn around. You actually have to go looking for them.

But, he is also willing to give up everything. He's suggested that he would just disconnect his phone entirely, parental controls, deleting every social media that he does have. He willing let's me look at his phone.

He is fighting for us to remain together, and knows just how easy I could email my attorney and get the process started.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Whatsnext87 said:


> I'm not sure what constitutes an addiction. The responses as what the temptations are were porn and chatrooms but, neither of those things just fall into your lap without going to look for them. It's not like those things are in your face every time you turn around. You actually have to go looking for them.
> 
> But, he is also willing to give up everything. He's suggested that he would just disconnect his phone entirely, parental controls, deleting every social media that he does have. He willing let's me look at his phone.
> 
> He is fighting for us to remain together, and knows just how easy I could email my attorney and get the process started.


It all depends on whether you want to be his baby sitter for the duration of your marriage. It may be the choice you make for the sake of the children. 
I highly doubt he would permanently agree to no phone, no electrics for decades.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Whatsnext87 said:


> In the defense of the pregnancy being the trigger, we have literally been pregnant most of our relationship. We've been through two pregnancies in 2.5 years.


You've been pregnant and uncomfortable, etc. He’s been free to do whatever he pleased. That’s a big difference. If you haven’t been together that long then maybe you don’t know him as well as you thought. In any event, I’d be hesitant to think about another pregnancy with him.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Up until a few months ago, about the only think I could tell you about tik tok was its a noise a clock makes, but I wonder if I am the only one that is being barraged by short TikTok videos of "regular" women...Old, young, ugly, hot, fat, fit, etc, Dancing and prancing, shaking their tits and asses to( I presume) get views/hits ? It's like a giant blob taking over the internet,,,

Just another thing to keep you guys up at night to police...lol...


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

i wonder how many men (or women) go onto the internet and find willing partners to chat with simply because the sex in their marriages is so dismally vanilla and non existent that they are driven to it. 

It is really easy to say "i caught my spouse on tick tock looking at titties, I am so shocked", where that same spouse refuses to let her husband see hers or play with hers!

then they start posting almost with religious fervor about how wrong it is, without ever looking into a mirror


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> You've been pregnant and uncomfortable, etc. He’s been free to do whatever he pleased. That’s a big difference. If you haven’t been together that long then maybe you don’t know him as well as you thought. In any event, I’d be hesitant to think about another pregnancy with him.


Our newest baby makes 4, my surgery is scheduled for early February. There will be no additional pregnancies involving me.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

hamadryad said:


> Up until a few months ago, about the only think I could tell you about tik tok was its a noise a clock makes, but I wonder if I am the only one that is being barraged by short TikTok videos of "regular" women...Old, young, ugly, hot, fat, fit, etc, Dancing and prancing, shaking their tits and asses to( I presume) get views/hits ? It's like a giant blob taking over the internet,,,
> 
> Just another thing to keep you guys up at night to police...lol...


So is this your input that you believe that TikTok could be the temptation culprit?


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> It all depends on whether you want to be his baby sitter for the duration of your marriage. It may be the choice you make for the sake of the children.
> I highly doubt he would permanently agree to no phone, no electrics for decades.


Regardless, I'm not going to babysit him. These are things he's suggesting in an attempt to have another opportunity to show me that he is getting help and will never do this again.

I will not restrict anything from him.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

Talker67 said:


> i wonder how many men (or women) go onto the internet and find willing partners to chat with simply because the sex in their marriages is so dismally vanilla and non existent that they are driven to it.
> 
> It is really easy to say "i caught my spouse on tick tock looking at titties, I am so shocked", where that same spouse refuses to let her husband see hers or play with hers!
> 
> then they start posting almost with religious fervor about how wrong it is, without ever looking into a mirror


Why is it that the first argument is that maybe his sex life is vanilla?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Talker67 said:


> i wonder how many men (or women) go onto the internet and find willing partners to chat with simply because the sex in their marriages is so dismally vanilla and non existent that they are driven to it.
> 
> It is really easy to say "i caught my spouse on tick tock looking at titties, I am so shocked", where that same spouse refuses to let her husband see hers or play with hers!
> 
> then they start posting almost with religious fervor about how wrong it is, without ever looking into a mirror


I wonder how many men and women go into the internet to seek out others despite having a lovely spouse who is willing to have sex with them? A lot I am sure.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Whatsnext87 said:


> Why is it that the first argument is that maybe his sex life is vanilla?


Ignore it. Cant stand it when those cheated on are blamed. It's on the cheater 100% .


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Whatsnext87 said:


> Why is it that the first argument is that maybe his sex life is vanilla?


Remember that many posters (including me) project their experiences and feelings onto the situations that are posted, so just take what helps you and ignore the rest.

I believe your husband has an addiction problem, and it's becoming more and more common. You aren't alone in dealing with this. That also means that it's NOT about YOU. It's something in HIM that is broken, or warped, and only HE can fix it.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> Remember that many posters (including me) project their experiences and feelings onto the situations that are posted, so just take what helps you and ignore the rest.
> 
> I believe your husband has an addiction problem, and it's becoming more and more common. You aren't alone in dealing with this. That also means that it's NOT about YOU. It's something in HIM that is broken, or warped, and only HE can fix it.


So you believe that it is something that can be fixed?


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Ignore it. Cant stand it when those cheated on are blamed. It's on the cheater 100% .


Thank you. It's just the second comment about vanilla sex made here.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Whatsnext87 said:


> So you believe that it is something that can be fixed?


Only if HE is committed to doing that, and fighting that urge every day. People do it all the time (it's not just men who can get addicted like this), so I absolutely believe he can fix it...but only if HE wants to and does the work.

Think of it like a drug or alcohol addiction. He has to hold himself accountable, with another man or sponsor, for the greatest chance of success.

It might be a good idea for you two to go to marriage counseling, so you can learn how to communicate better, an he can find a way to cope with emotional intimacy with you, because that is what gets damaged with sex addictions - the ability to connect emotionally. He will need support as he opens himself back up to you, which means you BOTH need to learn to trust and care for eachother. A counselor can be the safe place and guide to help you both do that.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

If a device can’t be locked or logged 100%- he needs to give it up. OP should own all the admin rights/passwords. I’d say this is the first condition of saving the marriage. I’d give up my phone and computer if I had to to save my marriage. Sounds like the pastor is clueless to offer any practical advice. So sorry.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Whatsnext87 said:


> Thank you. It's just the second comment about vanilla sex made here.


Some men will try and justify their own bad behaviour by saying things like that.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Whatsnext87 said:


> Thank you. It's just the second comment about vanilla sex made here.


Those are usually from men who cannot imagine a man who prefers porn and his hand to a willing female partner...so they make excuses for it, because it's so foreign to them. Most of them don't mean any harm, they are just totally clueless.

But those of us who struggled with husbands and partners like yours KNOW what you are dealing with, because we lived it.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

CatholicDad said:


> If a device can’t be locked or logged 100%- he needs to give it up. OP should own all the admin rights/passwords. I’d say this is the first condition of saving the marriage. I’d give up my phone and computer if I had to to save my marriage. Sounds like the pastor is clueless to offer any practical advice. So sorry.


Why do you think that the pastor is clueless?


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

LisaDiane said:


> Those are usually from men who cannot imagine a man who prefers porn and his hand to a willing female partner...so they make excuses for it, because it's so foreign to them. Most of them don't mean any harm, they are just totally clueless.
> 
> But those of us who struggled with husbands and partners like yours KNOW what you are dealing with, because we lived it.


I've thought along the same lines.

OP, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this on top of everything else, especially with 4 small children and upcoming surgery. Way to kick you while you down, eh? 

At the end of the day, he does it because he wants to more than he cares about you and your children, the "I don't know" crap is a complete cop-out. 

Unless he seriously addresses his issues, this will always be a problem. It's ultimately up to you what you can deal with and for how much longer, I'm sorry.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> Only if HE is committed to doing that, and fighting that urge every day. People do it all the time (it's not just men who can get addicted like this), so I absolutely believe he can fix it...but only if HE wants to and does the work.
> 
> Think of it like a drug or alcohol addiction. He has to hold himself accountable, with another man or sponsor, for the greatest chance of success.
> 
> It might be a good idea for you two to go to marriage counseling, so you can learn how to communicate better, an he can find a way to cope with emotional intimacy with you, because that is what gets damaged with sex addictions - the ability to connect emotionally. He will need support as he opens himself back up to you, which means you BOTH need to learn to trust and care for eachother. A counselor can be the safe place and guide to help you both do that.


Thank you. 
He's willing.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

TXTrini said:


> I've thought along the same lines.
> 
> OP, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this on top of everything else, especially with 4 small children and upcoming surgery. Way to kick you while you down, eh?
> 
> ...


I cannot stand the I don't know response. There's just no way that you don't know. There was some kind of thought there.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Whatsnext87 said:


> I cannot stand the I don't know response. There's just no way that you don't know. There was some kind of thought there.


From experience it translates as "I know, but I know you won't like my answer and I like having things the way they are"


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Whatsnext87 said:


> I cannot stand the I don't know response. There's just no way that you don't know. There was some kind of thought there.


Well, he might not be understanding what you are asking him. In HIS mind, he might be hearing you ask, how can he pick them over you and do something that he knows is a betrayal to you. 

And I'm sure that his honest answer to that IS, "I don't know", because he doesn't. He probably feels guilty the entire time, but he still chooses to do it. That's what the addiction is. It's almost as if he cannot make the choice he wants to make - resisting that urge. So that's what he doesn't know. And I believe he's being honest about that.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Whatsnext87 said:


> Why do you think that the pastor is clueless?


It takes more than scripture to cut a porn problem. This needs balanced with actual concrete steps that hubby must take. Step one is to lock down his devices. He should get a flip phone with no internet, throw out tablets, and move family computer to the living room where there is no privacy. Hubby should agree to this. I shouldn’t have said he was clueless…. Fixing a porn issue requires a heavy hand though. Clearly it is against the 10 commandments… a mortal or very serious sin. Pastors should understand that and take it very seriously.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

CatholicDad said:


> It takes more than scripture to cut a porn problem. This needs balanced with actual concrete steps that hubby must take. Step one is to lock down his devices. He should get a flip phone with no internet, throw out tablets, and move family computer to the living room where there is no privacy. Hubby should agree to this. I shouldn’t have said he was clueless…. Fixing a porn issue requires a heavy hand though. Clearly it is against the 10 commandments… a mortal or very serious sin. Pastors should understand that and take it very seriously.


These are all suggestions that H has made. He's willing to have just a flip phone, he doesn't do tablets, and we don't have a family computer. 

But, WHY does it have to come to that. How can it not simply be just don't do it. It's not a daily thing, it's sporadic.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> Well, he might not be understanding what you are asking him. In HIS mind, he might be hearing you ask, how can he pick them over you and do something that he knows is a betrayal to you.
> 
> And I'm sure that his honest answer to that IS, "I don't know", because he doesn't. He probably feels guilty the entire time, but he still chooses to do it. That's what the addiction is. It's almost as if he cannot make the choice he wants to make - resisting that urge. So that's what he doesn't know. And I believe he's being honest about that.


Thank you. 
He writes in a spiral notebook to me. He answers the questions I ask, and he responds to the things I have to say. I stopped writing two days ago because I'm disgusted. I'm disappointed. I think he's nasty. I'm convinced that everything he says is a lie. I've convinced myself that everything he's ever told me is a lie as well.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Whatsnext87 said:


> These are all suggestions that H has made. He's willing to have just a flip phone, he doesn't do tablets, and we don't have a family computer.
> 
> But, WHY does it have to come to that. How can it not simply be just don't do it. It's not a daily thing, it's sporadic.


Yes I understand that. You shouldn't be expected to baby sit him. He must do that for himself and not just for the next few days or weeks, but for decades. 
The test will come when your have a difficult time in your marriage as we all do. Will he fall back again? Who knows, but right now you are right not to trust him. He has shown he can't be trusted.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

It's extremely concerning that he's already started this crap and you're only recently married, almost as if he made sure you were trapped and locked down with shared children before he let his ugliness out.

Has each of you had therapy to address your separate issues? Him for his character flaws/addiction, you for support and help to figure out your options?

It's one thing to be willing, and make suggestions and another to go through with it. Talk is cheap.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

TXTrini said:


> It's extremely concerning that he's already started this crap and you're only recently married, almost as if he made sure you were trapped and locked down with shared children before he let his ugliness out.
> 
> Has each of you had therapy to address your separate issues? Him for his character flaws/addiction, you for support and help to figure out your options?
> 
> It's one thing to be willing, and make suggestions and another to go through with it. Talk is cheap.


The first instance came before marriage but, I am not trapped. I raised my oldest son as a single Mother when I divorced his Dad.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Whatsnext87 said:


> These are all suggestions that H has made. He's willing to have just a flip phone, he doesn't do tablets, and we don't have a family computer.
> 
> But, WHY does it have to come to that. How can it not simply be just don't do it. It's not a daily thing, it's sporadic.


Once he’s short circuited the impulse… 6 months or so he’ll probably be out of the habit and not need strict control mechanisms. It just takes a while.

He will also want to avoid all internet click-bait in general… it’s all adultery of the heart if you think about it… but the internet is literally made to make men fall into trouble with their eyes. Once a man is free though- he’s as free as a bird. You can’t blame a guy for falling into the porn lie… only if he persists in it.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Hey Whatsnext,

Do you know why his previous marriage ended, by any chance?


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

CatholicDad said:


> Once he’s short circuited the impulse… 6 months or so he’ll probably be out of the habit and not need strict control mechanisms. It just takes a while.
> 
> He will also want to avoid all internet click-bait in general… it’s all adultery of the heart if you think about it… but the internet is literally made to make men fall into trouble with their eyes. Once a man is free though- he’s as free as a bird. You can’t blame a guy for falling into the porn lie… only if he persists in it.


It didn't work that way, March would have been two years without any situations. Yet, here we are. 


TXTrini said:


> Hey Whatsnext,
> 
> Do you know why his previous marriage ended, by any chance?


They have a child together, and I talk with her frequently.

They married out of highschool, she found someone at work and it went downhill from that point. Once she started, he started.. and well he just hasn't stopped.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Whatsnext87 said:


> It didn't work that way, March would have been two years without any situations. Yet, here we are.
> 
> They have a child together, and I talk with her frequently.
> 
> They married out of highschool, she found someone at work and it went downhill from that point. Once she started, he started.. and well he just hasn't stopped.


Maybe he never quit or maybe it’s just a relapse…. I think he needs to make a firm purpose of amendment. How can you trust him after all if his devices are all still available to him for private use? I suspect he’s secretly been at it but it took two years to catch him. If he’s serious- he should be glad to jettison his phone.

One added thought- you truly don’t know if he’s sorry for this bad behavior or if he’s just sorry he got caught.If he’s really sorry he’ll work hard to remove the temptation.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Whatsnext87 said:


> It didn't work that way, March would have been two years without any situations. Yet, here we are.
> 
> They have a child together, and I talk with her frequently.
> 
> They married out of highschool, she found someone at work and it went downhill from that point. Once she started, he started.. and well he just hasn't stopped.


Hmm, I was wondering if it was an established habit.



CatholicDad said:


> Maybe he never quit or maybe it’s just a relapse…. I think he needs to make a firm purpose of amendment. How can you trust him after all if his devices are all still available to him for private use? I suspect he’s secretly been at it but it took two years to catch him. If he’s serious- he should be glad to jettison his phone.
> 
> One added thought- *you truly don’t know if he’s sorry for this bad behavior or if he’s just sorry he got caught.If he’s really sorry he’ll work hard to remove the temptation.*


This^^

If it had just been once, it would have been a different story. He knows the score, and how hurt OP was the last time around, you'd think that would have been enough.

Whatnext, what solid actions has he actually taken, not talked about since the latest DD? It's been nearly a month since.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

How long have the two of you been in a relationship?


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I should add that an old phone with no data plan can still access WiFi and therefore porn. So hubbys that claim to have no devices- they could easily be lying.

Sadly, it could be impossible to keep porn/internet filth out of the hands of a determined liar. The more times you catch them… sadly you know where their heart is.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Whatsnext87 said:


> Thank you.
> He writes in a spiral notebook to me. He answers the questions I ask, and he responds to the things I have to say. I stopped writing two days ago because I'm disgusted. I'm disappointed. I think he's nasty. I'm convinced that everything he says is a lie. I've convinced myself that everything he's ever told me is a lie as well.


I don't blame you for feeling that way. You are hurt and feel betrayed, so you are going to go through all kinds of feelings, almost like the stages of grief - shock, denial, anger, hurt, understanding - around and around. And you need to give yourself the space to process them as you feel them.

It's not wrong to feel any of those things, but just keep in mind that just because you feel like something is true, doesn't make it true. 

Have YOU done any counseling or journaling at all? It might help you deal with the anger and hurt you feel.


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## AlwaysComplicated (12 mo ago)

Hi! Um, what is a "blended family"?



Anyways, about your husband: I hate to say it, but your husband isn't going to stop now, with this being the second time it has happened. It's going to happen again. Maybe in 6 months, maybe a year or two, but he'll convince himself that he's 'better' and 'this time it's different' and 'she won't find out this time' and 'she didn't kick me out before, she won't kick me out again.'  I don't want to sound mean about it. Matter of fact, I don't think this has to be the end of your relationship. I don't think all hope is lost, but it is very, very serious.


I am a believer that some people (maybe not everyone) who has a problem with online relationships, emotional cheating, etc. etc., anything like that, that is connected to the internet, has an ADDICTION.

An addict needs help and support, but they also need tough love. They need to be watched. You can't allow an addict to be in a situation where they have access to their 'drug' of choice. Whether it's a painkiller or online cheating, people get quite a rush from it. And let's not beat around the bush: It's a habit and an addiction. I think there are plenty of people in today's society of social media and the information age who are ADDICTED to certain aspects of online life. And the rush of fanatisizing about a stranger, chatting with a stranger, etc., is something very powerful and I think a person's brain gets rewired and dependent on that rush, much like being addicted to heroin, nicotine, caffeine... whatever.

I wish you luck and hope that you guys are able to fix this. Also, I don't think you should put all your hopes into your husband visiting with the pastor. That might help, but in my very humble opinion, that can actually enable your husband (in the future.) Now your husband knows he has support when he 'cheats' online! He knows you care. He knows you won't kick him out. He knows his faith and your pastor are there to support him. What will stop him from seeking out the rush in the future, especially since he has a solid support net?

Good luck, really, really, I truly mean it. 💗




Whatsnext87 said:


> We're recently married, a blended family, with two littles of our own under two years of age.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> I wonder how many men and women go into the internet to seek out others despite having a lovely spouse who is willing to have sex with them? A lot I am sure.


that is possible too. but there is no logical reason to do so...if you have a willing and kinky spouse, EVERYTHING will be better done in-person rather than virtually onlne with strangers!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Whatsnext87 said:


> So is this your input that you believe that TikTok could be the temptation culprit?


I think his I put is that once someone signs up for something like tiki tok there is a barrage of instant marketing

I don't know, not ever used tiktok but would think it's the same marketing blasts as other sites, pick one.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I think his I put is that once someone signs up for something like tiki tok there is a barrage of instant marketing
> 
> I don't know, not ever used tiktok but would think it's the same marketing blasts as other sites, pick one.


I'm not sure, I have one but, I don't notice anything out of the norm. I did ask a male friend his opinion and he feels like yes, there is temptation there with the females that are less dressed dancing and singing explicit song lyrics. So his Tik Tok account has been deactivated and uninstalled for about a week now.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

AlwaysComplicated said:


> Hi! Um, what is a "blended family"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A blended family means, each of us came into the relationship with a child. So we blended together two established families, and added two additional littles to it.

Your opinion is valid, and I don't find you being mean about anything. This is not anything that hasn't crossed my mind. I don't understand the aspects of addiction, at the same time I also don't understand how anyone jeopardizes their family for self pleasure. Because at the end of the day that's exactly what this is. 

I have the passwords to all of his applications. Other than that, I'm not going out of the way to babysit. He completely understands that if anything happens again, I'll complete the filing for divorce and everything can come to light. I've accidentally found out about the other two incidents, so eventually I'll find out.

I haven't decided, he's trying to show me what kind of husband I deserve, and I change my mind several times a day. The real test is coming, he accepted a new position that requires us to be apart 14 days at a time. I'm looking forward to the space to be able to think without being overwhelmed with him doing everything for me, and that gives him enough time to hang himself if there will be a third incident.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Ignore it. Cant stand it when those cheated on are blamed. It's on the cheater 100% .


let me offer one idea why:
the sex life is stagnant, and one partner wants to try new or kinkier things, and keeps getting shut down with every new idea. 
After some point in time, the idea shifts from "she does not want to try new kinky things" to the more disasterous "she no longer loves me, she will not even lift a finger to improve our sex life".

and "she" is interchangeable with "he". both sexes have this sort of laziness.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Talker67 said:


> let me offer one idea why:
> the sex life is stagnant, and one partner wants to try new or kinkier things, and keeps getting shut down with every new idea.
> After some point in time, the idea shifts from "she does not want to try new kinky things" to the more disasterous "she no longer loves me, she will not even lift a finger to improve our sex life".
> 
> and "she" is interchangeable with "he". both sexes have this sort of laziness.


Still no excuse.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Talker67 said:


> that is possible too. but there is no logical reason to do so...if you have a willing and kinky spouse, EVERYTHING will be better done in-person rather than virtually onlne with strangers!


Unfortunately logic has little to do with it. A lot of longterm partners get tired of their spouse, because it is the same person, no matter how diverse the acts they are willing to engage in, and they start looking elsewhere. Some people should never marry.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

I honestly think Internet porn is to blame for a lot of these type of issues. Studies have shown it changes your brain and keeps you wanting more. It's an addiction. Now with snapchat premium, tiktok, onlyfans, and cam girl websites getting custom content and lie chats is so much easier.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

joannacroc said:


> Unfortunately logic has little to do with it. A lot of longterm partners get tired of their spouse, because it is the same person, no matter how diverse the acts they are willing to engage in, and they start looking elsewhere. Some people should never marry.


Nah, you can always go FURRY!






























you would barely recognize each other!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

CatholicDad said:


> I should add that an old phone with no data plan can still access WiFi and therefore porn. So hubbys that claim to have no devices- they could easily be lying.
> 
> Sadly, it could be impossible to keep porn/internet filth out of the hands of a determined liar. The more times you catch them… sadly you know where their heart is.


There are cell/mobile phones with no Internet access:-








What is the Best Cell Phone Without Internet Capability


Cell phone without internet capability is commonly preferred for elderly people and children. With all the mentioned functions, your smartphone will make you




www.wirelessdevicesreviews.com


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

MattMatt said:


> There are cell/mobile phones with no Internet access:-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, clearly some guys need a phone with no internet.

One of the most impressive men I know carries a flip phone because he hates the distraction of smartphones. He doesn’t text either. He started/owns a very successful business too- he’s no dummy.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

Although I'm sure these are all great options for some but, it just seems like a ton of unnecessary stress for me. If all of this is that important to someone, they'll find a way to get it. Isn't the the whole basis of an addiction? I could take his phone away, and replace it with a flip phone but, what's stopping him from buying a tablet from a pawnshop that will connect to wifi while on hitch?


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Whatsnext87 said:


> Although I'm sure these are all great options for some but, it just seems like a ton of unnecessary stress for me. If all of this is that important to someone, they'll find a way to get it. Isn't the the whole basis of an addiction? I could take his phone away, and replace it with a flip phone but, what's stopping him from buying a tablet from a pawnshop that will connect to wifi while on hitch?


Nothing.

He can stash it in his car and only use it away from home. You can't control anything he does, that's all on him.


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

TXTrini said:


> Nothing.
> 
> He can stash it in his car and only use it away from home. You can't control anything he does, that's all on him.


Exactly. 

So why go through everything to keep him from being tempted?

Either he changes, and keeps his family intact or he hangs himself with the leftover rope. It's ultimately his problem to overcome.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Whatsnext87 said:


> Exactly.
> 
> So why go through everything to keep him from being tempted?
> 
> Either he changes, and keeps his family intact or he hangs himself with the leftover rope. It's ultimately his problem to overcome.


Them's the brakes, unfortunately.

The question really is, can you handle knowing this and waiting to see what happens? Especially if it takes some time?


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## Whatsnext87 (12 mo ago)

TXTrini said:


> Them's the brakes, unfortunately.
> 
> The question really is, can you handle knowing this and waiting to see what happens? Especially if it takes some time?


The first hitch starts Valentine's Day, I don't think it'll take too long with all the free time he'll have.


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