# Struggling with trust after PA...



## muziksoul (Mar 9, 2013)

Hello forum people. I'll just start from the beginning.

My wife and I just had our third wedding anniversary two days ago. In the three years that we have been together, she has had several EA's that I have caught her in, one PA, and another instance of kissing another man when we were at a party together but in different areas.

Through all of this, I have loved her, and supported her. I truly believe that she loves me, and that some of her behavior comes from being young (she's 10 years younger than I am) and from the childhood that she had.

She goes through phases where everything is great, beyond great, and we are a happy couple. There are no issues with trust or worries about infidelity, because there would literally be no time or opportunity, that's how close we are. Other times, like now, she pulls away, and I am left feeling lost. Originally I would just be hurt, we would fight about it, and eventually it would equalize back into our good pattern again. Then, I started discovering the EAs. This kind of put my trust in the crapper.

I am one of those who believes that the less there is to hide, the better. My wife knows all my passwords, has open access to anything she wants at any time. I've caught her going through my phone and internet history, and not given her any kind of hard time about it because, frankly, I'm glad she can check and be reassured because I have nothing to hide.

She on the other hand, has had plenty to hide over the years, and like I said, the problem seems to be escalating. At first even when things were strained between us I didn't consider taking advantage of checking up on her; I trusted her. Then I walked in on her sexting someone she had met online gaming (she had claimed it was a girl originally, so I was never worried that she seemed so eager to get back to gaming with the person, even at the expense of us spending time together).

Since then, I have found it hard not to wonder, and fear, and trust has become a bit more difficult to blindly offer, or hold on absolute faith, when these periods of distance between us pop up. I haven't found proof of anything untoward every time, but the three or four times now I have continues to make it harder and harder to let go of my fears and allow myself to trust her fully, although I truly do try.

The last major instance was the PA she had with a man who I never thought she would have been attracted to. She lied to me about where she was and what she was doing, she lied to me about who she was out with, and ended up sleeping in the same bed with him (she says no sexual encounter occurred, and I believe her, with reservations that the only reason may be because she was on her period) and kissing and touching definitely occurred.

We have dealt with that, as much as something of that nature can be dealt with. I believe that no further contact has been had between the two of them, due to both a lack of opportunity and some periodic snooping on my part to verify as best as I can.

So, it has been a couple of months, and after coming closer together after I forgave her and we both promised to try and be what the other deserves...we are in a distance phase again. I am worried.

On top of that, she got the new iPhone a few days ago, and today she claimed (while I was at work) that the texting was malfunctioning and so she went to the apple store to get her own appleID. We have shared an appleID for the past 4 years, and there has never been an issue with our shared account before this week. Yes, either one of us could use the account to find the other's phone at any time using the lost phone app, we could see what applications the other was downloading when it sent a notification...but like I said, this has never been an issue before. Apparently, with the new iOS it is also possible to receive copies of each other's text messages through a shared appleID, but again, that street runs both ways and if one wanted to try and sneak a peek at the other's texts, it alerts the other phone so this seems kind of like a moot point.

My arguments for not splitting our IDs were relatively simple. If we lose a phone, good luck finding it without the app (this has come in handy twice already for her, once when she lost it and once when someone swiped it in a bar). All paid applications we have bought are no longer able to be shared. Photostream, a service I quite enjoy when one or the other phone is more convenient to take a picture, is now worthless. And contacts are no longer shared, so if I need to call someone, and its in the wrong phone, no dice. Small, not-earth shattering arguments, but in the face of no real point to splitting the plan...I am left wondering WHY this is so important to her.

Which leaves me feeling like the only reason that makes sense is to have the ability to hide things. I would be lying if I said that the fact that one of us could check on the other if we were really worried about something is not something I find to be a bad thing...I have nothing to hide, so this has never been a concern for me, but that brings me to her argument.

Out of the blue, she stated that she feels like she has no privacy. She told me that she has nothing that is "just hers" and that I track/monitor/record her every move and that I am controlling. I honestly do not think that this is the case. I will openly admit that when I have been overly concerned I have checked up on her, and while it does not help that I have caught her in the things I have caught her in, I do not dictate her life to her. She goes to school, has her own job, I encourage her to hang out with her friends alone, and unless she comes home driving drunk or is out until 5am without a call (both of which have happened), I don't fuss at her. When I do fuss at her, its because I'm scared for her welfare and concerned about her lack of judgement (driving drunk).

So we had this fight today, and there's been this distance once again, and she ended up getting the separate ID even though I asked her to wait until we could talk about it (I was at work), and I was hurt and frustrated not just because of this particular scenario, but all the baggage that I have explained that comes with it.

Now I'm left hurting, wondering, not knowing if I am in the wrong. Am I being controlling? Am I wrong to believe that trust so abused is going to be a process to earn back? Am I wrong to still believe that this was the wrong choice for her to make, and that she is being overly defensive about her privacy in this case? Am I wrong to be worried that she is doing this solely to have the option to hide things from me again? Am I wrong to believe that a married couple should be one, and that openness of information and lives should be something that should be applauded, and not reviled?

I know some people believe that the kind of openness between couples that I believe in is a sign of mistrust, but I don't understand how that can be the case. I don't want to hide anything from my spouse, and I feel like she should have the option to prove that at any point because, hey, we're human, and we're going to get insecure every once in a while. Am I wrong? Am I the only one who feels this way? My wife claims that I am, that no one else shares like I would prefer us to share.

Now please, if you want to help, please don't try and tell me that she doesn't love me, or that I'm kidding myself, or it's over and I just need to dump her. I want help. I love my wife, with everything that I am. I want something that will help me fix things, or at least point me in the right direction.

Two other quick points: I have never cheated on my wife, in any way. Also, my wife has used my openness to check up on me when it has suited her, so this is not just a one way street when it has happened.

Thank you for your time and consideration, and for any help that you can provide me. I am hurting, and I don't know what to do.


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## fishfast41 (Dec 12, 2010)

I have only read the first paragraph here, but that's all you need to know. 3 years married and several EAs and one PA. (that you know of) With all the extramarital activity here, when does she have time to be married to you? Divorce this toxic woman now, before she destroys you. It's that simple.


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## fishfast41 (Dec 12, 2010)

After reading the rest of this post, I can only say...DIVORCE NOW.


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## ParanoidDeeply (Mar 8, 2013)

Are you listening to yourself? You say you know for a fact she is cheating on you. And you love her with all that you are. If this is the case and you make the decision to stay then you have to accept this is the way she is. I'm not saying what she is doing is right by no means but when you check on her and you keep finding out she's still cheating you're only hurting yourself and making life miserable for you not her because she knows you will always be there. I'm sorry you're living this way.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Bear in mind this is just me. But pay attention to the balded part´s




muziksoul said:


> Hello forum people. I'll just start from the beginning.
> 
> *My wife and I just had our third wedding anniversary *two days ago.* In the three years that we have been together, she has had several EA's that I have caught her in, one PA*, *and another instance of kissing another man when we were at a party together but in different areas.*
> 
> ...



I will stop with what i have underlined...Question is why are you still with her?? And if you want to stay married you really need to MAN UP...IT has to be some consequences of her action´s

Stop being so nice and trust whorty-Please


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

I understand that you don't want people telling you to dump her but the fact is that you have to be willing to lose her in order to do what needs to be done to get the marriage that you want. 

You are going to get alot of advice that seems contrary to what your goals are, but please listen to these people. They know what they are talking about. There are certain things that you must demand from her, and if that pushes her away then do you really want to be married to someone who won't respect you? 

Do you love your wife more than you love yourself?

If the answer is yes, this is the root of your problem. 

Good luck


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## fishfast41 (Dec 12, 2010)

The only other thing I could say here is that you do not have a marriage here, no matter how much you love her. You think you are married, but your wife sure doesn't think she is. She is using you as a security blanket that will always be there no matter what she does.Do you really want to spend the rest of your life in extreme emotional pain? Never trusting her,never being able to believe what she says? Never being able to feel secure in what should be your life's deepest and most important relationship? Wake up, man. This isn't a marriage in any sense of the word. Listen to what you hear from these people on this forum. You will receive excellent advice and compassion and help. I bet you will also hear individual variations on what I just said many times. I'm sorry to see you here, and will pray for you. Remember God has your back.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

There are tactics that cheaters use to hide their affairs. One of them is to say they need "privacy." For what, they don't say. If she wants privacy, she can go in the bedroom by herself (without her computer and phone) and be alone all she wants. Or sit in her car. What she means is, "I want to be able to continue to cheat on you and you not find out about it. It's too hard to hide it if you can see my phone bill and texts."

You want advice on staying married, but unfortunately, it takes two to tango and it takes two to stay married.

You can stay married all you want just the way you are now.

No one on this forum can stop your wife from cheating on you.

A lot of people on this forum have read a lot of stories of cheating, we have all read your story before, the ones who are in denial of their own wives cheating on them soon should be chiming in to tell you to divorce your cheating wife immediately.

I am not saying to divorce your wife, but I am saying to look at the story you are posting objectively, as another would see it, and tell me what conclusion you would arrive at.

Trust is always earned, it never comes with marriage just because it's marriage. If you had trust when you married, it's because she earned it before you got married.

You will get no guarantee you can save your marriage. But the way you have been acting throughout your marriage and especially in response to your wife's affairs (the ones you know about - if she cheated on you at a party while you were there, you really can't say she had no other opportunities to cheat because you are so busy and close to each other) - your actions in response to your wife's cheating have been an epic fail.

You cannot nice her out of her affairs. You must take a hard line. Tell her you can't control her, but that you CAN control yourself, and what you are willing to accept and not accept in a marriage. And you are not willing to accept any more EAs, any more PAs, any more kissing other guys at parties, and any SECRECY (not privacy) on her part about where she is and who she talks to and what she says.

Who the heck wants to know every word their wife says to her friends? But you do want to know if she is sexting another guy, and it's not like you don't have a pretty good reason to suspect she might, because, in fact, she already has, several times in your young marriage.

Finally, you don't want to hear this, but start considering what life will be like if you CANNOT CHANGE HER. Will you stay married with things the way they have been, always things thinking that she is going to change THIS TIME? Will you divorce?


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I think it would be in your best interests to get into therapy to understand why you wish to love a person who humiliates and disrespect you in the worst possible way. You have been married only 3 years and her actions she her distain for you. If you do not respect yourself then who will?

What have been the consequences of her betrayals to you? No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. The bottom line is that you are in denial. Why would a wife respect a husband who she knows she can cheat on and will forgive her time and time again.?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Agree with the others. You need to move on. If you insist on staying with her (big mistake) join a swinger's club and make it mutual.

In the meantime, listen to the people here and start learning about what women really want vs. what they say they want.

Chateau

Married Man Sex Life

Alphagameplan

You need to up your masculine dominance by a quantum leap. Also get your testosterone checked; it it's low that explains everything.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

Does your wife like cake? Because she's stuffing her face with it right now. This is only going to get worse before it get' s better, if it ever gets better. You might want to get your boots on, you are already in deep do do.


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## muziksoul (Mar 9, 2013)

First, let me thank all of you who have taken the time to both read my long post, and reply. Whether or not I can accept or agree with your advice/point of view, it is appreciated.

I may be a sap. I may not even be a "man". I know that my wife does not truly respect me a lot of the time (some may argue ever). Regardless of that, I believe in her. I believe in her ability to change and to be the woman who is inside of all of this crap I am dealing with now.

You may not understand, you may think I am kidding myself, or ignorant, or just making my own bed...but I love HER. Not her actions when she hurts me, not the pain she puts me through when she lies, but HER.

This may be meaningless to some, but I know she loves me beneath this destructive behavior. I promised to love her through the good and the bad, and I have never meant anything so completely in my life. She is my soulmate, and I believe, truly believe that she is hurting somewhere in there beneath all of this, and I don't know how to give up on that person, despite how she lashes out at me.

Again, I am aware that many of you will see me as deluded and sad and weak for my beliefs...but that is the reality of MY situation. Yes, to answer someone's comment, I love my wife more than myself. I promised her that, and I also believe that love is not contingent on how the other person treats you, it is a commitment that you make that binds the soul...and when she actually does let her soul shine, I have never seen anything so beautiful.

So, that's that I guess. I know no one can make her stop cheating on me. She'll either choose to or she will not. 

I just mainly came hoping someone could give me a sense of whether I was alone in believing that there is a difference between controlling and safeguarding your heart...that an overwhelming need for "privacy" in a marriage is not a reasonable and common condition...that someone else could give me some hope for my situation because I am not willing to give up on this girl...and if that means I'll be miserable no matter what from now until I am willing to do so...I'll just have to cross that bridge when I come to it.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She wants privacy because she's continuing to cheat, she's met someone and wants to have more contact with him using her new phone. 

She maybe your soul mate, but clearly you are not hers. She has and feels ZERO loyalty to you.

Words demanding more privacy and calling you controlling rely mean you are interfering with her relationship with another man and she wants you to butt out,

Bet, they as sex the night she was in his bed. People have sex while on a period all the time. Also cheating wives lie all the time about having their period so they can keep themselves clean for their AP


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

She is a cheater, so she cheats, it's her thing. She is not going to stop, mainly because she found a husband that gives her a pass.She needed to marry a alpha male to hold her accountable. But, then again no alpha would marry her. The privacy issue is simply a bi product of who you married. But, you are not really married. Because, come on... this is not the way it is supposed to be. You need to address your issues, bro. Why are you so accepting of this?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Lord almighty....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Lord almighty....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow you said it damaged or pulling our leg.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

By the way, your spouse enhances your life, they are NOT supposed to BE your life.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

muziksoul said:


> I just mainly came hoping someone could give me a sense of whether I was alone in believing that there is a difference between controlling and safeguarding your heart...that an overwhelming need for "privacy" in a marriage is not a reasonable and common condition.


 She is a proven and unremorseful cheater. What she as a cheater is asking for in your marraige is not normal, because what she is asking for are conditions that will allow her to continue to cheat without interference from you. She knows it, you know it, and she knows that you know it, yet she has so little respect for you that she knows that you will let her lie to your face and do nothing but complain. For instance, there was no technical reason whatsoever for her to need her own iPhone account. She cannot love someone that she does not respect, and you are not demanding respect.



muziksoul said:


> that someone else could give me some hope for my situation because I am not willing to give up on this girl...and if that means I'll be miserable no matter what from now until I am willing to do so...I'll just have to cross that bridge when I come to it.


 That statement right there is why your marraige is doomed long term. It is why she has no respect for you or the normal rules of marraige. You were at the bridge a long time ago, and your wife is already all of the way across. You must be willing to end a bad marraige, to have any chance at having a good one. You must therefore be willing to divorce your wife and mean it for you to have any chance at her respecting you and your marraige. The odds are not 100% that she will come back to you if you file for divorce, but the odds are 100% that she will cheat and that your marraige will eventually die a horrible and painful death if you do not.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

muziksoul said:


> Now please, if you want to help, please don't try and tell me that she doesn't love me, or that I'm kidding myself, or it's over and I just need to dump her. I want help. I love my wife, with everything that I am. I want something that will help me fix things, or at least point me in the right direction.


But that is the only advice anyone can give you here with a situation as bad as yours. No magic pill to make a serial cheater not cheat.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

I don't think either of you were ready for marriage. She cannot stop cheating and you don't have a deal breaker.


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

After all you've described about your wife's actions in the post, HOW DO YOU BELIEVE THAT SHE TRULY LOVES YOU??? HOW?? What does love mean to you?

The only thing your "controlling" is the your ability to put up with her repeated disrespect of you and your so called marriage.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

muziksoul said:


> First, let me thank all of you who have taken the time to both read my long post, and reply. Whether or not I can accept or agree with your advice/point of view, it is appreciated.
> 
> I may be a sap. I may not even be a "man". I know that my wife does not truly respect me a lot of the time (some may argue ever). Regardless of that, I believe in her. I believe in her ability to change and to be the woman who is inside of all of this crap I am dealing with now.
> 
> ...


I was struck with the tone of this post. The near-zealotry of the emotion is as lamentable as it is stupid. You say that you know that your wife loves you; today, I posted that love, true love, is the desire for absolute beneficence for the object of that love. If your wife loved you, she would want you to be loved, happy, content and trusting of your marriage, and work with you to provide that life, which the two of you, and only the two of you, would share.

There is nothing of any degree of virtue in the portrait you have painted of your wife, who it seems is a serial adulteress without any degree of remorse or even the decency to feign a justification. I'm going to deliver a statement that will be unwelcome, but that you will nonetheless recognize as true in a few decades, when this woman has hollowed out of you any measure of self-respect or belief that you deserve a woman who takes her vows as solemnly as you do: your wife is a terrible person. I'll say it again: she is a _terrible_ person. Her inability to remain faithful is, objectively and of itself, a terrible flaw of character. Had it manifested as a drunken one-night stand, you could make the case that she made a mistake; I've argued many times against even that degree of leniency but one can still argue it rationally. Your wife has ruthlessly disregarded her married state, the principles she avowed when she promised fidelity, your happiness, and the sanctity of your family and home, all for her own pleasure and self-aggrandizement multiple times that you even know about. She has proved that neither decency nor your knowledge of her infidelity will dissuade her. Such a woman, barring supernatural help, is incapable of truly reforming herself.

You ask if privacy is to be needed or expected in a marriage. Rationally, I ask, how can it be? Marriage, by universal expression, is the sharing of common life. It is a promise to share all things, good and bad, with one another and labor in good faith to make the former more common than the latter. It is based on trust, mutual respect, and love, in the sense of the theological virtue. How can trust endure when secrets are kept? How can respect be cultivated when secrets hide personal weakness that is celebrated rather than met and overcome? How can love exist in a marriage when one places their pride and pleasure over that which is owed their spouse?

I advise you to think very seriously about the content of your and your wife's character, the nature of your marriage, and whether any part of the three is for your good.

- JM


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Consequences. Can't see them. Where are they? There be consequences right where she can see the whole bit.

C's are good. C's are your friend in the long run. Short run. Decathlon. Marathon. etc.

Married woman demanding privacy? Give her the privacy she so desires, go 180 and lock everything that belongs to you up, including mails, texts, any and all accounts. Let's see how comfy she gets with you in the dark. She's good with that? Give the boot. Not good with that? Man up and be even more rough with the 180.

It's fool-proof.


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