# VULNERABILITY...the FEAR, the POWER, it's PAIN, it's BEAUTY- How Vulnerable are you?



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Trenton put this link on here about a year ago- It is one I never forgot, I found its lessons profound.







Brene Brown: The Power of vulnerability 







(this is 20 min of listening)

No woman has studied the subject of *Connection */ *Shame */ *Vulnerability *more than Brene Brown. She originally set out to prove "Vulnerability" is nothing but WEAKNESS - betrayal even! Her aim was to trample it . What she came to learn was such a struggle for her, this Therapist had to see a Therapist! :scratchhead:



> "Connection is why we are here -it gives purpose & meaning to our lives".





> "*Shame* = Disconnected -feeling we are not worthy of connection"


 With the thousands of stories pouring in to her in her research spanning 10 yrs, she decided to separate the "Whole Hearted" to the "Broken" still struggling with "connection" in Love & Relationships, and the undeniable truth was.....allowing oneself to be vulnerable is a STRENGTH, what separated the 2 was simply ...."they BELIEVED they are worthy of connection, a strong sense of belonging", this allowed them to be more vulnerable before others. 

But so often we FEAR putting ourselves out there, can not bear the risk of HURT, we try to NUMB our emotions -but we can't numb our emotions, so many turn to addictions (drinking, over eating, etc). This is not our answer. 



* I looked at my own marriage*....with us, I believe I have always been emotionally vulnerable with my husband, ever since I got past my initial shyness to even kiss him after we met, I've just never held back with him at all (emotionally)... I would cry on his shoulder, call him about anything & everything, bear my







in all things, he has seen me at my worst, and somehow he made that easy for me, he NEVER really hurt me, accepted Me for ME from day 1.... I felt that strongly- so maybe NOT much RISK there for me, he always built me up...has been my #1 Fan. 

We talked about this last night, after explaining what Vulnerability IS (the state of being vulnerable or exposed - susceptibility to injury or attack) ..... he admitted he was never "totally" vulnerable with me our entire marriage - he hid himself, his deep feelings, he feared my rejection, my reactions. And this is so sad - as it is a reflection of how I failed him, not giving as much as he gave. It still was HIS choice to hold back, it can not all fall on me, but still I could have done better. 

But he is NOW (very much so- some of the things he has said to me in the past few yrs, I don't think many men would speak out loud). I asked him when this started (which I already know but wanted to hear his response) - in his words ...."when you became EASY". I had to :rofl: at that ! But how true it was....when I started showing my sheer burdenous NEED for him sexually, it just OPENED him up like a delicate flower







.... in ways I never knew.... a side of him emotionally that I have been missing all of these years. What a delight!  He needed that from me -which was even a step up in MY vulnerability with him, feeling like I was some kind of a "burden"... I beared it all.... even in tears at times. 







Many lessons learned here...for us, and all before I ever laid eyes on this clip. 



*** Brene learned this is how the "Whole hearted" live: 

*1.* *Courage *to be IMPERFECT
*2.* *Compassion *to be kind to ourselves 1st
*3*. *Connection *- as a result of Authenticity- the people let go of who they thought they should be -In order to BE who they are
*4. **Fully embraced Vulnerability*- that what makes them vulnerable makes them beautiful.

She Ended with this... "Let ourselves be seen, deeply seen, vulnerably seen, love with our whole hearts, even if no guarantee, Practice gratitude ...."can I love you THIS much"- "I'm just so Grateful" - and Believe we are "enough".


*How has Vulnerabilty played out in YOUR life, relationships, even friendships, Love, Connection. Please share your stories. *


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> "they BELIEVED they are worthy of connection, a strong sense of belonging", this allowed them to be more vulnerable before others.
> 
> He needed that from me -which was even a step up in MY vulnerability with him, feeling like I was some kind of a burden, I bared it all, even in tears at times.


SA ~ thank you, another great post!! 

This post hits home with me. I discovered part of the reason my H was closing-off from me sexually was due to this defense mechanism of not allowing himself to be completely vulnerable. He did not feel worthy of all of my love. I was on a pedestal. This defense was also cloaked in some passive aggressive behavior too - which comes back to the same point that he didn't feel worthy. He might have unknowingly held onto a thought that I hadn't done something for him (which I would have been clueless about), and instead of expressing it to me or thinking it through as to why it bothered him/letting it go, he internalized it and somewhere inside he doubted my love = him not feeling worthy. Does that make sense?

They're behaviors he's learned through childhood. Now that we know what's going on, we can start breaking down these walls together. Like you, I felt that I might have failed him in some ways of not taking a closer look at what was going on to help him realize that he could be vulnerable with me, instead of having certain patterns that developed between us.

It's all learning though. I'm more aware of my own behavior now, I'm more aware of him. We're changing together. I am seeing big differences in him because of this - particularly sexually :smthumbup:

The first time I went out with a new friend, she was in tears over her relationship. She apologized and told me she hated that I was seeing her this way because she wanted me to see her as someone strong. I replied there's strength in being real and being vulnerable and I was honored that I could be there for her as a friend. Allowing yourself to be vulnerable is a strength.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I think I’ve always been vulnerable, sometimes too vulnerable, too open. But I prefer it that way than to being too closed, untouchable, unreachable. I think part of vulnerability is to be empathetic and compassionate. I see this in my elder son as well, his empathy and compassion. It makes him very vulnerable, and easy to be taken advantage of by wrong minded people. I’m always willing to take a chance on people.

But as far as my stbxw is concerned I am no longer vulnerable. I’ve got a bunker mentality about her, so much so that she can no longer get inside of me no matter what or how hard she tries. It’s a pity but that’s the way it is. Never again will I be vulnerable to her.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

In order to embrace my issues of fear, jealousy, anxiety and panic, I had to become completely vulnerable with myself. No excuses, no blame, no BS.

This in turn is teaching me to love myself, to know my own self-worth and the amazing thing is now I can be completely vulnerable with my husband.

To spin off of that, because my vulnerability is so pure and honest, HE is now being vulnerable with me. 

I now believe completely that the cycle of Love starts within yourself.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

heartsbreaking said:


> This post hits home with me. I discovered part of the reason my H was closing-off from me sexually was due to this defense mechanism of not allowing himself to be completely vulnerable. He did not feel worthy of all of my love. I was on a pedestal. This defense was also cloaked in some passive aggressive behavior too - which comes back to the same point that he didn't feel worthy. He might have unknowingly held onto a thought that I hadn't done something for him (which I would have been clueless about), and instead of expressing it to me or thinking it through as to why it bothered him/letting it go, he internalized it and somewhere inside he doubted my love = him not feeling worthy. Does that make sense?


Tremendous sense! You described this scenerio beautifully. I am sure our husbands are not unique in this either. Countless loving husbands across this world internalize, they do not want to come off as weak, they have been taught this as young boys. OUR role as nurturers should extend to our husbands , pulling these things out of them if we have too. I know this NOW -especially after learning about my husbands specific temperment. 

But it is so easy to miss this in marraige when things are stressed, busy busy busy. I am always harping on SEX , but I can't help it, as it was our healing balm ya know (more of it ), And with many men this IS how they FEEL LOVED and valued - it speaks "worthiness" to their souls. 

My husband told me he always FELT he loved me more than I loved him. Was this true- absolutely NOT. I did take him for granted, yes I am guilty, having 5 kids in 9 yrs was a bit of a drain. Had anything happened to him during that time, I would have never forgiven myself. Sometimes we get too busy to smell the roses in our own back yard. We are all learning, thank God for forgiveness and this thing "vulnerabilty" in expressing that even.



> It's all learning though. I'm more aware of my own behavior now, I'm more aware of him. We're changing together. I am seeing big differences in him because of this - particularly sexually :smthumbup:


 We are 2 REFORMED wives Heartsbreaking! 



> The first time I went out with a new friend, she was in tears over her relationship. She apologized and told me she hated that I was seeing her this way because she wanted me to see her as someone strong. I replied there's strength in being real and being vulnerable and I was honored that I could be there for her as a friend. Allowing yourself to be vulnerable is a strength.


 And your response was one of a true friend, inviting, accepting and reassuring that she IS valued, she will hold YOU dear in her heart.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Thank you SA ~ your response has me smiling 

I'm sure there will be other things along the path that will give more opportunity for growth and learning. It's not always easy, especially when dealing with our own ego, but if we can allow ourselves to be vulnerable - with ourselves first of all - it can be an amazing experience. A more honest experience.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

SA - thank you so much for this post and link. I feel like I've been searching for answers for so long and this spoke to so many of them. This has me thinking about my situation a lot - I may post a new related thread later so as not to derail this... but in the meantime, thank you.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I am vulnerable but I also have a solid power base so I can afford to be vulnerable and celebrate that I am. I wouldn't not want to be vulnerable as that is the center that allows you the luxury of trust, when you can find it, which is the basis of intimacy. Vulernability is not a bad thing, it is actually something quite precious that individuals should strive to protect at all costs. 
When you honor the vulnerability in yourself and protect it, it gives you the ability to honor the vulnerabilities in others. That is what makes a human, something other than a biological entity.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

AFEH said:


> I think I’ve always been vulnerable, sometimes too vulnerable, too open. But I prefer it that way than to being too closed, untouchable, unreachable.


 Me included. Women have hurt ME much more in my life than men. And even today, friendships with woman , or cultivating them with honesty -has caused me some grief. But the ones I do have are treasures. 

I had a big Birthday Party at my house, some of the Moms from my church were there, we've been friends but not close close friends, they always come to my parties, we were laughing , carrying on, even getting a little loud, talking about our faults, our sins (I tend to say too much here- You'd think I enjoy judgement ?!!) talking about it ALL, I got a little carried away "just being ME" - putting thy FOOT in thy mouth. But you know , it was my house & I was just being MYSELF, I never once put any of them down. 

After they left I felt we had a great time, umteen kids , no accidents, we ate good & partied with much laughter. Then a few hours later, one of them sent me a FB message retracting some of the things she said & wanted me to "understand some things". Judgement on my character was written all over that -she was trying to be subtle, even a little apologetic -but it was there -it was a spit in my face. WOW. While she sat at my house on my porch laughing with me a few hours earlier. Yeah, HURT, deflation, I cried.  Bothered me more than I care to admit -for a few days. I questioned my parenting. Even felt a little sick. 

But still I welcome it*. I would rather FEEL*. As excruciating as these things are - I don't want to change, I like who I am, and where I have come from, even if others do not. 

This world is FULL of beautiful people, if a few don't like me FOR ME (instead of acting like a cardboard copy of them) -whose loss is it really? I have no desire to be camouflage with people. While many struggle to be themselves, I struggle to reign myself in. 

I think this woman felt guilty after leaving about her own behavior before the rest of us & didn't want me to get the wrong idea, & wanted to push that on me somehow, I don't know. I took it humbly, I didn't defend. But I did cry on my husbands shoulder , he says to me "What do you expect, they are stuffy christians!" , gotta love that man. 

But I ain't gotta love those who are plastic. I learned who is REAL that night. I did not feel her *heart *in her words, her righteousness over me. But I felt my own for days. 

Give me my *imperfect *friends any freaking day - please! 



> I think part of vulnerability is to be empathetic and compassionate. I see this in my elder son as well, his empathy and compassion. It makes him very vulnerable, and easy to be taken advantage of by wrong minded people. I’m always willing to take a chance on people.


 I think we *should *take a chance on people if we like them - at least once or twice, but after being roasted a time or 2, tossed aside, it is best to put up a fence. Personally, I still remain in contact, I just modify who I am with them as I need to play by their rules knowing they more apprecaite the outward cup of goodness. 

It hurts when you feel someone judges you -no matter what the judgement, sometimes we deserve it, sometimes not. That is for us to muddle through. She felt her parenting abilities were superior, her morals (they were home schooling Moms after all , so the bar is HIGH). If we compared our children, one thing I have going is --mine shine in respect & are well loved at the Church by adults as well as the kids. Her oldest is good friends with my 2 oldest too. I think she would have reduced me to sludge if that were not the case. 

I talked to my older boys about this, I asked them-- would they want me to be like those MOMs...leave it to them to save my day- THEY brought the biggest smiles to my face  with 2 of them giving a very SOUR look of ''NNooooooo". One of them said "Never, that would be awful, we couldn't do nothing!". I may have my faults, but they are HAPPY I am the way I am -and give them freedom these other parents feel is sinful somehow, like they have to live in a bubble & be protected. I am blessed they do not abuse the freedom I allow but use it wisely. 




> But as far as my stbxw is concerned I am no longer vulnerable. I’ve got a bunker mentality about her, so much so that she can no longer get inside of me no matter what or how hard she tries. It’s a pity but that’s the way it is. Never again will I be vulnerable to her.


 I've heard your story, and I believe most would be where you are -under such circumstances. 

It is still so healthy you can BE this with others. I think too many can not separate, so they fall into shutting EVERYONE out, you have learned NOT to do this. 

I will not shut others out either because of these silly tiffs and judgements that I am met with along the way. The risks are so worth it when you open yourself up.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> 1. *Courage *to be IMPERFECT
> 2. *Compassion *to be kind to ourselves 1st
> 3. *Connection *- as a result of Authenticity- the people let go of who they thought they should be -In order to BE who they are
> 4. Fully embraced Vulnerability- that what makes them vulnerable makes them beautiful.


I used to strive to be the best. No matter what I did, I wanted to be the best. It gave me a lot of pressure. And Now I knew it was foolish of me to have that kind of thinking. We just can't be the best. We can be good. No human being is perfect, life can never be perfect, nothing is perfect. We have to have the understanding that imperfection is normal and acceptable. If people can't tolerate imperfection, they bring stress on themselves. So accept that we are not perfect, also accept that people we live together are not perfect, accept that life is not perfect. Understand ourselves, understand others, and understand life. 

We love ourselves for we are, it doesn't mean that we become arrogant and condescending, it means that we forgive us for the mistakes we made in life. The person who never made any mistakes in his life doesn't exist. Learn our lesson, and be more positive about our future. Don't dwell on our mistakes and imperfection, it is wasting time, in my opinion. 

Very often people are disappointed about their life, because their life didn't turn out to be the way they wanted and expected. But who has control over that? And very often we don't understand ourselves very well, we want something which is beyond our reach. Why not just take what we have and be happy with what we have? 

Even the greatest and strongest people in the world have vulnerable moments and weaknesses, whoever can discover that wins that person's heart or have that person in control. A person who thinks he is undefeatable is only fooling himself.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

A few months ago, my father-in-law was sick, but he didn't tell his wife. He was in pain, he went to the doctor by himself, he didn't say anything until it became very serious. 

My mother-in-law was hurt, she felt sad that her husband didn't turn to her for support and help. 

My husband and I just felt that they don't have a very good relationship. Because in a sweet relationship, we are the first one for our spouses to seek encouragement and support when they need it. 

My husband never tries to be a tough man. He doesn't have many people he can trust. I am glad that I am the one he confides his deep inner thoughts and vulnerability. I am usually there to comfort him, encourage him, and support him. Sometimes I even guide him! I point out the direction when he is lost. I fully know my own vulnerabilities, when I am hurt and need a good cry, my husband is the only who I can find comfort from, and he is always there for me, comfort me with his wise words and hold me with his affectionate arms.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> I used to strive to be the best. No matter what I did, I wanted to be the best. It gave me a lot of pressure. And Now I knew it was foolish of me to have that kind of thinking. We just can't be the best. We can be good. No human being is perfect, life can never be perfect, nothing is perfect. We have to have the understanding that imperfection is normal and acceptable. If people can't tolerate imperfection, they bring stress on themselves. So accept that we are not perfect, also accept that people we live together are not perfect, accept that life is not perfect. Understand ourselves, understand others, and understand life.
> 
> We love ourselves for we are, it doesn't mean that we become arrogant and condescending, it means that we forgive us for the mistakes we made in life. The person who never made any mistakes in his life doesn't exist. Learn our lesson, and be more positive about our future. Don't dwell on our mistakes and imperfection, it is wasting time, in my opinion.
> 
> ...


Your post brought tears to my eyes. 
I grew up in a house where imperfection wasn't tolerated. We were beaten for messing up, literally beaten with belts. I have spent my entire life trying to be "perfect" to everyone else, to the detriment of myself. In real life, I am not this tough girl. I never stand up for myself, other peoples opinions matter more than my own, I am too scared to say anything when confronted for fear that the other person will not like/approve of me. 
The day I got married as my father is walking me down the aisle he whispered in my ear "Don't screw this up or nobody else will want you". Every fiber in my body was telling me to tell him to go to hell and walk down the aisle by myself but I didn't, I just smiled. My husband said I was "beaming" and had no idea that what I was really doing was smiling so I didn't break down and cry. 
When our second son was born, he spent weeks on life support due to breathing problems. After we got the clearance from the hospital, we flew to our hometown with a portable ventilator to have him baptized in the church we both were baptized in, met in and married in. After the ceremony, my father had the reception at his house. He pulled me aside and said "When are you going to make something of yourself? Woman have babies every single day, it doesn't make you special". He also told me to loose weight as the "only" thing going for me was my looks. There I was 8 weeks after giving birth and a son who nearly died and hearing his words crushed my hope of ever having a decent relationship with him. That was the last time I ever spoke to him or saw him. 
My father died in February of this year and I didn't go to the funeral. I cried plenty over his death though. I always hoped he would hang on long enough for him to see me "make something" of myself.

In reading your post, I realize I already had, he just chose not to see it. 

Thank you from the bottom, middle and top of my heart for writing what you did. You have NO idea how much your words mean to me.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Your post brought tears to my eyes.
> I grew up in a house where imperfection wasn't tolerated. We were beaten for messing up, literally beaten with belts. I have spent my entire life trying to be "perfect" to everyone else, to the detriment of myself. In real life, I am not this tough girl. I never stand up for myself, other peoples opinions matter more than my own, I am too scared to say anything when confronted for fear that the other person will not like/approve of me.
> The day I got married as my father is walking me down the aisle he whispered in my ear "Don't screw this up or nobody else will want you". Every fiber in my body was telling me to tell him to go to hell and walk down the aisle by myself but I didn't, I just smiled. My husband said I was "beaming" and had no idea that what I was really doing was smiling so I didn't break down and cry.
> When our second son was born, he spent weeks on life support due to breathing problems. After we got the clearance from the hospital, we flew to our hometown with a portable ventilator to have him baptized in the church we both were baptized in, met in and married in. After the ceremony, my father had the reception at his house. He pulled me aside and said "When are you going to make something of yourself? Woman have babies every single day, it doesn't make you special". He also told me to loose weight as the "only" thing going for me was my looks. There I was 8 weeks after giving birth and a son who nearly died and hearing his words crushed my hope of ever having a decent relationship with him. That was the last time I ever spoke to him or saw him.
> ...


I used to be the same! 

Then one day I realized that I was living for others, I wasn't living for myself. It was very tiring and stressful. (For example, I used to go to witnesses' meetings just so my mother-in-law and other people in the hall were happy with me!)

We can never meet other people's expectation, because their expectation is theirs, not ours(very often we can't even meet our own expectation). We can never please everybody in our life in all the areas, we are bound to disappoint them sometimes, it is just life. 

I learned not to expect compliments from people(their compliments and opinion control what we do and think), I learned to stay away from people who hurt me, I learned to live for myself! Now I am much relaxed! 

Now I just make sure that I am responsible for my life and my own conduct! I make sure that I am conscience clear! I make sure that I don't hurt others intentionally! Other people are pleased with me or not, it is really not my concern now! 

Your father didn't know how much he had hurt you! My father doesn't know how much he hurt me either! In order for me to live a happier life, I force myself to think the good things he did for me instead of the hurtful words he said to me! It does help!


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> I used to be the same!
> 
> Then one day I realized that I was living for others, I wasn't living for myself. It was very tiring and stressful. (For example, I used to go to witnesses' meetings just so my mother-in-law and other people in the hall were happy with me!)
> 
> ...


I would love to be as positive as you. The truth is my father knew exactly how much his words would hurt. We are adopted and he never wanted children. He used to tell us that we were worthless and that is why my biological mother "threw us away". Cruel and sadistic that man was. 
The GREATEST smile I have ever had on my face was when my son, age 16 at the time took an interest in my father's work as a Physicist. He wrote a paper that was published dispelling the theory my father used for many publications he wrote. My father had a PhD in Physics and Chemistry. Son? A high school kid with a brain. He got a scholarship to an Ivy league university largely based on the paper he wrote. He will start in three weeks and is majoring in Engineering and Physics. I couldn't be more proud. 
I did hear through the grapevine though that my father was angry beyond belief. Full on rage. Why? An egomaniac with 50 years experience got shown up by a teenager. MY son, you know...the daughter who didn't make anything of herself. :rofl:


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Oh these stories - you are all making me cry.  BrightEyes, about walking down the isle, I don't know how you did it !! I don't think I could have done it. I would have punched the Mother F*** issed: (Yeah easy to say I know) or balled all the way through the ceremony -with such a comment. That would have destroyed my wedding day. I would have had to DO something- let off some steam. 

What was wrong with him, seriously, he had to have had some atrocious things happen in his own life to Treat others like this. There is no way he could have been "normal" or loving to others in his life & just focused all his VILE on his adopted children - your mother must have suffered greatly also. 

Listen to this song >> ‪P!nk - Perfect‬‏ - YouTube (warning -Graphic in mid song)

This is like a PEA in comparison.....my best friend threw a Baby Shower for me when I had my daughter (EVERYONE knew this was the desire of my heart after so many boys), she happened to make a funny comment about me getting pregnant again -can't remember her words & my Mother in Laws reaction was "oh NO, that is just TOO hard on the family". Which as I sat there & opened all of my presents, so thankful all of these people came, all I kept thinking was ..... My family thinks all my kids are a "burden", I was on the verge of tears some of those moments.  

And the truth was, we never asked anything of any of them, not even babysitting (my friends were my helpers-always). And the sister in law, she would always make remarks about having too many kids to buy for. Honestly I couldn't blame them, and ALWAYS told them we don't expect anything, please don't buy. PLEASE!! I am not one to not saying anything when I am disturbed. We saved well, my kids were not hurting for anything. I got sick of these "slights" & nothing I said to their face was helping so what I did was ....

Sent them all a "personal written letter" Thanking them for all their presents over the years, what Christmas is REALLY about, FAMILY , not gifts -and if I was one of them, I wouldn't want to buy for us either! And to please not buy anymore but if you insist (as I can not stop them), make it very small --playdough, bag or candy, $1 stuff, whatever, my kids are NOT spoiled & they will still love it, appreciate it. The point - We do NOT expect, nor will we ever, getting together is all that matters. 

Ya know - I gave each family member a copy of that, and still they bought for my kids, still asking me every darn year what they want, didn't listen to a word of it - BUT never "whined" again- in our presence anyway. 

It is hard to know how to handle people & their words sometimes, their slights truly DO reflect something going on within. There always has to be some REACTION to hurtful bahavior, some "*PRICE*" will be paid.

When I left at 18 yrs old, my Step Mother told me "when you leave, you are never to come back" (funny how we remember all the HARD words). She was a strict discliplinarian you just did not cross, even at work, she was a force to be reckoned with. Once I was grounded for an entire month no phone, no friends, maybe not even TV, can't remember. When I met my boyfriend & fessed up to seeing him behind her back, she took me out of that school, she was TOUGH! So much for honesty! 

She would put notes in the fridge, things that I was not allowed to eat, I didn't get lunch $$ half the time. I remember writing on the wall in my bedroom how much I hated her. I was not treated lovingly by any means. She didn't even want her own kids but poor me got to live with her after my Mom took off.

Funny today her own kids have NOTHING to do with her, but I am still there. We accually get along really good, my kids love her, we laugh for hours when we get together. I overcame the hurt she gave me growing up- I knew it wasn't my fault. (this helps). I knew I was not wanted there (she wanted my dad to herself), but I was a damn good kid, for the most part - she knows it. She'll even tells people today "________ had to live with me , she is the one who had it ROUGH! ". It is good to hear her admit that. My friends were my life back then, I used them to bi*** about my step mom, helped me deal with the situation, gotta have some outlet. :rant: One of my girlfriends & me, that is what we had in common- she hated her adopted Mom and I hated my step Mom! We are still friends today. I will admit I would have rather had my step mother over her righteous religious "nothing was good enough" adopted Mom though -Much abuse there. Somehow she & her mom made peace too though-before she died. 

I think it is good IF we CAN make Peace with these people, IF we can handle it. I have never cut anyone out of my life over behavior -YET. But I understand why people NEED to do this. Definitely. I have NEVER been hurt to those lengths.

‪Christina Aguilera - Beautiful‬‏ - YouTube


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> He used to tell us that we were worthless and that is why my biological mother "threw us away". Cruel and sadistic that man was.


Something was wrong with this man! 

Now you have helped me understand you better! 

The way you grew up was cruel. 



YOUR SON IS WONDERFUL!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

greenpearl said:


> Now you have helped me understand you better!
> 
> The way you grew up was cruel.
> 
> ...


 I am sure she raised her son with love and acceptance from day one -vowing to NEVER give a hint of utterance to words like her dad gave her -which has given him a firm foundation & a great start in life. I think we can either learn from our parents mistakes & vow to NEVER treat our kids that way, we would kill ourselves 1st ...or we can fall into repeating them. All depends on what is important - once we mature and realize we are in charge of our own destiny, they were only a "stepping stone", they do NOT define us or who we will become. 


Ya know this is one of the reasons I try to NOT get too offended by the way people act - because generally they got things they are dealing with that we have NO CLUE, and heck, if our life is going well, I can deal with some rudeness along the way by others. Usually it has NOTHING to even do with us. I think if you kill the rude people with kindness, always kinda loved this challenge - even if I had to pray like h*** to do it (and I have done this!!) , it can win them over -- eventually. Just hang in there, love 'em anyway . 

My motto is -So long as someone is willing to talk to me, I can handle whatever they throw at me. But at the same time, I was never the doormat type, they'd have to put up with me too, even my not so fine moments. 

As an innocent child, we are at the *mercy * of our upbringing, which so often is *not fair *- but once adults , we have more choices, I like this quote:


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

SA, love that TED video. It's actually mind alteringly beautiful.

BrightEyes, it's funny because often times when we're abused by anyone (and it's any type of abuse) we learn what should have happened, why what did happen was wrong and we know what we should feel like or we should be like. How frustrating to have so much knowledge but not be sure if we can believe it or not have the emotional tools to implement it. 

The positives are that you absolutely can at any point in your life transform those set of beliefs into new, healthy ones that free you. The negatives are that it won't be easy and no one else can do it for you.

I'm not there yet myself. In fact, I'm pissed at myself often for knowing and not doing. So we're pretty much in the same boat. My latest fall and the resulting issues have completely shaken my faith in myself and my mind. It is taking all the courage in the world for me to drive to Philadelphia for four days of training on Monday...something that I would have done with excitement and joy just 8 weeks ago. This reality is killing me but I found that. Not letting fear stop you is the first step. The courage to live really.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I am sure she raised her son with love and acceptance from day one -vowing to NEVER give a hint of utterance to words like her dad gave her -which has given him a firm foundation & a great start in life. I think we can either learn from our parents mistakes & vow to NEVER treat our kids that way, we would kill ourselves 1st ...or we can fall into repeating them. All depends on what is important - once we mature and realize we are in charge of our own destiny, they were only a "stepping stone", they do NOT define us or who we will become.
> 
> 
> Ya know this is one of the reasons I try to NOT get too offended by the way people act - because generally they got things they are dealing with that we have NO CLUE, and heck, if our life is going well, I can deal with some rudeness along the way by others. Usually it has NOTHING to even do with us. I think if you kill the rude people with kindness, always kinda loved this challenge - even if I had to pray like h*** to do it (and I have done this!!) , it can win them over -- eventually. Just hang in there, love 'em anyway .
> ...


Very often you hear that like father like son! 

I think I am totally different from them now! 

I know what kind of pain their personalities caused me, I sure don't want to repeat it myself. My son did have to endure a couple of years of my bad temper, but now it is all gone. Now he always sees a happy and loving mother!


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Your post brought tears to my eyes.
> I grew up in a house where imperfection wasn't tolerated. We were beaten for messing up, literally beaten with belts. I have spent my entire life trying to be "perfect" to everyone else, to the detriment of myself. In real life, I am not this tough girl. I never stand up for myself, other peoples opinions matter more than my own, I am too scared to say anything when confronted for fear that the other person will not like/approve of me.
> The day I got married as my father is walking me down the aisle he whispered in my ear "Don't screw this up or nobody else will want you". Every fiber in my body was telling me to tell him to go to hell and walk down the aisle by myself but I didn't, I just smiled. My husband said I was "beaming" and had no idea that what I was really doing was smiling so I didn't break down and cry.
> When our second son was born, he spent weeks on life support due to breathing problems. After we got the clearance from the hospital, we flew to our hometown with a portable ventilator to have him baptized in the church we both were baptized in, met in and married in. After the ceremony, my father had the reception at his house. He pulled me aside and said "When are you going to make something of yourself? Woman have babies every single day, it doesn't make you special". He also told me to loose weight as the "only" thing going for me was my looks. There I was 8 weeks after giving birth and a son who nearly died and hearing his words crushed my hope of ever having a decent relationship with him. That was the last time I ever spoke to him or saw him.
> ...


Your father was a deeply disturbed man. That you have survived that awful upbringing is a testament to your strength and resolve.

Something was broken within your father to be so filled with hatred that he would say vile things while walking you down the aisle. 

You no longer have to even think of him, and definitely not live up to anything he wanted.

Your life is your path.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

michzz said:


> Your father was a deeply disturbed man. That you have survived that awful upbringing is a testament to your strength and resolve.
> 
> Something was broken within your father to be so filled with hatred that he would say vile things while walking you down the aisle.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

You're incredibly strong.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Ya know this is one of the reasons I try to NOT get too offended by the way people act - because generally they got things they are dealing with that we have NO CLUE, and heck, if our life is going well, I can deal with some rudeness along the way by others. Usually it has NOTHING to even do with us.


I actually thought my childhood was normal until I became a parent myself, at a very young age. Then I flew in to a rage over being treated that way knowing there is no way in HELL I would ever treat my children that way. 
My father was a true sociopath. He literally could not feel compassion for anybody. It was always about him and he thought the world of himself. It wasn't shocking that he left all his money to a children's hospital so that people would think he was such a remarkable human being. 
He knew better than to leave me a dime. My sick side would have spent that money to buy a marble statue of a man urinating. Literally water peeing out on to his grave and some recycling component underground so it would perpetually piss on his grave. Everybody who would walk by would wonder "damn, what did THAT guy do?!". After both boys finish college, I still have that option.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I didn't mean for that particular quote of mine to mean in anyway an excuse for hurtful behavior from the hands of your father , or parents even - he was a grown man who KNEW what he was doing- on the happiest day of your life, he had choices, he *chose *to walk with hurtful intention & wound with his words- and never offered an apology. 

But oftentimes young kids / teens act out -because of things going on at home, or even adults- women who have abusive husbands, etc, we encouter "rude" people in the store or in our churches, at school, and many of them have a really HARD life at home, or are just having a bad day -where noone has a clue. 

I just have always considered this when I see such a person instead of labeling them automatically as no good. Once you get a certain age, had some good breaks though, we need to turn it around somehow, work like hell to put these things past us, as it was more a reflection on our tormentors - than us. 

I know, easy to say that, but it is the reality. 


I've never had to *forgive *someone who is dead like that - who left so much grief in your soul growing up Therealbrighteyes, but it sounds as you need to do this (FOR YOURSELF) -have you started that journey ? His memory appears to still be haunting you ?? You wouldn't really want to erect such a statue to be a daily reminder. I guess you are just joking- that's good! 

Does it help at all to realize he obvioulsy had his own demons, the man was obvioulsy never happy himself, never loved himself either. That in itself is a punishment of sorts. He lived to get outside respect it seems but he probably knew noone ever really loved him, why he acted like that. I wonder how HIS parents treated him. 

I can't imagine it would be easy, the price being very very high & deep, I am sure you feel he stole your childhood. 

I have this book I picked up at a Garage sale about Forgiveness, I found it so insightful, love this auther -about healing the hurts we *DO NOT *deserve >> Amazon.com: Forgive and Forget: Healing the Hurts We Don't Deserve (9780060674311): Lewis B. Smedes: Books


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## xirokx (Aug 14, 2012)

wow Brene Brown is awesome...

Thank you for sharing


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## DCMarriageCounselor (Aug 30, 2007)

that_girl said:


> To spin off of that, because my vulnerability is so pure and honest, HE is now being vulnerable with me.
> 
> I now believe completely that the cycle of Love starts within yourself.


Well said TG! I have seen this work in my marriage as well. I really hate the part right before I realize how well this works--like a simple machine--where I get so locked up in my lizard brain of fear and closed-heartedness. I swear, it's like when I'm slicing myself a bagel and using the serrated knife but instead of just letting the knife slowly work its way through I am pushing it. I once cut my index finger so deep this way that i still have a scar and lost a little feeling! My lizard brain uses such blunt force to protect me and I need to constantly remind myself--like Brene says--of how powerful vulnerability is. No force needed....such a relief to be able to relax and be yourself.


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## DDDCanada (Mar 23, 2011)

I must say that I had a several epiphany moments when listening to speaker in the video, Brene Brown. 

Here are my notes/thoughts taken from the video:

When people as about relationships, they often speak of their negative experiences (breakups, etc) rather than the positives and best practices learned.

Shame and fear 
- the less you talk about it, the more you have it
- excruciating vulnerability

People who have a strong sense of belonging believe they are worthy ("the whole hearted"):

- COURAGE - tell the story of who you are with your whole heart
- COMPASSION - to be kind to self first and then others
- CONNECTION - as a result of authenticity
- VULNERABILITY - fully embrace it - believe that what makes you vulnerable makes you beautiful (fundamental)

Normally, most people:
- "numb" vulnerability as well as everything else; we can't "selectively" numb
- we attempt to make everything "uncertain" certain
- we attempt to "perfect" things 
- we pretend that what we do doesn't have an impact on people

- "We are imperfect and wired for struggle but we are worthy for love and belonging"
- we should let ourselves be seen
- love with our whole heart
- practice gratitude and joy
- think "I am enough"


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

DDDCanada *>>* Love your write up on Brene Brown's message !











> Normally, most people:
> -* "numb" vulnerability as well as everything else; we can't "selectively" numb*


...

Wanted to add a little more about this...taken from the pages of >>

The Gifts of Imperfection: Let Go of Who You Think You're Supposed to Be and Embrace Who You Are: 
(over 650  reviews)

Brene Brown says ...


> "After collecting thousands of stories , I'm willing to call this a FACT: *A deep sense of love and belonging is an irreducible need of all women, men and children*. We are biologically, cognitively, physically, and spiritually wired to love , to be loved, and to belong.
> 
> When these needs are not met, we don't function as we were meant to. We break. We fall apart. We NUMB...We ache...We hurt others. We get sick.
> 
> There are certainly other causes of illness, numbing and hurt, but the absence of love and belonging will always lead to suffering.


There is a section about NUMBING...she spend several hundred interviews trying to better understand the consequences of NUMBING & how "taking the edge off" behaviors is related to addiction...this is what she learned...



> *1*. Most of us engage in behaviors (consciously or not) that help us to numb and take the edge of off vulnerability, pain, and discomfort.
> 
> *2*. Addiction can be described as chronically & compulsively numbing and taking the edge off of feelings..
> 
> *3.* We cannot selectively numb emotions.. When we numb the painful emotions, we also numb the positive emotions.


Another fine point she made was >>



> "Recognizing and leaning into the discomfort of vulnerability teaches us how to live with JOY, Gratitude, and Grace... I'm also learning that the uncomfortable and scary learning requires both spirit and RESILIENCE.










*>>* Resilience is that ineffable quality that allows some people to be knocked down by life and come back stronger than ever. Rather than letting failure overcome them and drain their resolve, they find a way to rise from the ashes. Psychologists have identified some of the factors that make someone resilient, among them a positive attitude, optimism, the ability to regulate emotions, and the ability to see failure as a form of helpful feedback. Even after a misfortune, blessed with such an outlook, resilient people are able to change course and soldier on.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

I was vulnerable....very vulnerable. I was also married to a master narcissist. A deadly combination. I am a different person today. An emotional wall feels awful, artificial, but strangely comfortable. I hurt less because of it.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

heartsbeating said:


> Thank you SA ~ your response has me smiling
> 
> I'm sure there will be other things along the path that will give more opportunity for growth and learning. It's not always easy, especially when dealing with our own ego, but if we can allow ourselves to be vulnerable - with ourselves first of all - it can be an amazing experience. A more honest experience.


Weird to quote myself, I know.

But whoa this was over 2 years ago ...and I've learned (am still learning!) so much about myself and the part I play in our dynamic, to what was expressed in this thread back then. I notice that I started with sharing about my husband's story and that's because it took time for me to understand my own need to be vulnerable in various ways with him, (and with friends, I just didn't realize a few years ago) along with certain traits I'd brought with me into our relationship. 

We are both more vulnerable with one another now. Mirrors come in all sizes. It's wonderful, as I get to learn more about him as a person. As well as learning more about myself. Vulnerability has a relationship with honesty and trust. I'll have to re-visit the talk later.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I now believe completely that the cycle of Love starts within yourself.


And the choir sang, Amen.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Great post, SA! I'm glad someone dug it up!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

SaltInWound said:


> *I was vulnerable....very vulnerable. I was also married to a master narcissist. A deadly combination. I am a different person today. An emotional wall feels awful, artificial, but strangely comfortable. I hurt less because of it.*


I'll be the 1st to say...we need to very very very careful who we allow into our lives & deepest places of our ...many do not deserve our hearts.... . The book speaks of this too...how we need to honor our struggle by only sharing with those who have *EARNED the right to hear us* ...this only comes with TIME.... building a foundation of trust...with mutual sharing...feeling anothers empathy as we slowly open up.....we won't feel like they are trying to FIX us, or just jumping to make us feel better, but genuinely listening...we may feel totally exposed ...yet completely loved & accepted at the same time.. this is what true compassion is. 

If we let our guard down too quickly, not knowing the character of another...sharing our most precious assets, that are deeply important to us and/or insecurities...(and we all have some)...it is deeply wounding if they take them, only to turn around and belittle us, trample us using what we've shared in Trust...against us... this would make anyone with an ounce of sensitivity (and goodness) to shield themselves, to back away ...to protect ourselves.....

Hopefully we can see...this speaks *more *about the person who DOES THIS ...over ourselves... 

Not trying to get religious on anyone here but this scripture captures what I am trying to say...we need to be very very careful to not throw our pearls before swine...








...

You say he was a "MASTER"... looking back...was there ANY red flags  while dating that he wasn't the man you believed him to be...looking at his friends... did his words line up with his actions, how he treated others socially -in a lower position (let's say on the Job)/ how he treated waitresses (for example)...was every "falling out" another's fault...no self awareness, lacking humility ?

I never studied up on Narcissism really... I did find this though... some are even classified as VULNERABLE Narcissists !! Maybe this was what he was...

Two Types of Narcissists Pose Somewhat Different Challenges - There are "vulnerable" narcissists and "invulnerable" NPs.

A piece of the article on this type...



> *The Vulnerable NP*
> 
> Vulnerable narcissists (VN's) tend to be more sensitive, often see themselves as victims of those who don't understand how superior they are. Just like those with BPD, vulnerable narcissists tend to be preoccupied with fears of rejection and abandonment. They and may feel helpless, anxious and depressed when people don't treat them as they desire.
> 
> ...


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

I'm chiming in to say how glad I am that this thread has been revived. It would even be nice to see it keep going and going....

I owe my own recovery to finding Brene's Brown's work. It seemed that each line in her books described exactly what had happened to me. Validation of our experiences in this arena (shame, vulnerability, perfectionism) is crucial to letting go of the pain.

I have come to believe that one of the greatest crimes against all of us is feeling obligated to keep secret all the shaming, crushing things that have been said and done to us... How will it stop if we don't shine a light on it? 

I am finally dealing with the fact that my beloved, genius, admired father crushed my spirit. He built me up--then said those same awful things to me: "You're not really good enough, you'll screw this up, no one will want you, you are a failure and no one likes you....worst of all, you're still a GIRL no matter how hard I've tried to make you a boy..." I'm amazed I'm still here, really, because those are evil seeds that grow in a child and bear hideous fruit. 

What a wonderful thread! Hope to hear more on this from you SA!!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

questar1 said:


> I'm chiming in to say how glad I am that this thread has been revived. It would even be nice to see it keep going and going....
> 
> *I owe my own recovery to finding Brene's Brown's work. It seemed that each line in her books described exactly what had happened to me. Validation of our experiences in this arena (shame, vulnerability, perfectionism) is crucial to letting go of the pain. *
> 
> *I have come to believe that one of the greatest crimes against all of us is feeling obligated to keep secret all the shaming, crushing things that have been said and done to us... How will it stop if we don't shine a light on it? *


 I like what you say here... 



> *I am finally dealing with the fact that my beloved, genius, admired father crushed my spirit. He built me up--then said those same awful things to me: "You're not really good enough, you'll screw this up, no one will want you, you are a failure and no one likes you....worst of all, you're still a GIRL no matter how hard I've tried to make you a boy..." I'm amazed I'm still here, really, because those are evil seeds that grow in a child and bear hideous fruit. *
> 
> What a wonderful thread! Hope to hear more on this from you SA!!


Questar1....So wonderful to hear you are dealing...and finding yourself.. and "acceptance" ...through Brene's Books, videos...

Speaking of your Father, through the eyes of what you have learned.... what was HIS PROBLEM... that he laid into you like this.. was he carrying his own demons he never dealt with and projecting them upon his son? ... Just a guess here....were you not into sports & he expected you to be a football star? Your gifts being in other areas he could not recognize because of his refusal to look upon boys but with one stroke? 

How unfortunate, if so. WE ALL HAVE GIFTS TO SHARE WITH THIS WORLD... no matter who we are, there is something to contribute to bless another... those who can't see this are lacking the bigger understanding of Connection in our world....it helps to have encourages though -along our path. 

A little wrap up of the book is here >> 










for sharing Questar1.


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

2galsmom said:


> I do not find vulnerability attractive any more, I do not see it as a place of humanity. I do not see it as a soft spot in hardened men. This is an interesting thread to revive. Interestingly enough, I divorce a narcissist. Just when I think there is nothing more for me to derive from TAM viola! The Universe brings up a zombie thread.
> 
> Note to self: Add new term to personal lexicon _Vulnerable_ NP


Vulnerability IMHO is not attractive. BUT:It is the gateway to authentic living. It requires enormous courage to go there--because the blowback is pretty much guaranteed. Put yourself out there? Yeah, you'll get stuff thrown in your face. Ugh. 

But in the end it's the doorway to living fully and free. 

Just kinda hard getting there. So many people ready to punish us for trying. 

Nelson Mandela is often my image of this way of being. Got him in prison for nearly a lifetime. So. Price to pay. My first two marriages truly felt like prison and the resulting depression honestly did nearly kill me and for sure put my life on hold, frozen, bleak. Breaking free was an ugly process too. 

But I'm getting there. Now I know it's worth it! I think we learn to be courageous by being courageous, by trying.... we'll get there :smthumbup:


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Trenton put this link on here about a year ago- It is one I never forgot, I found its lessons profound.


Until around seven years ago, I avoided vulnerability through various defense mechanisms. Then a series of events led me to be spiritually broken, and I mean that in the truest sense of the word. I reached a suicidal state that was so desperate I called my ex husband while I had a loaded gun in my hand and begged him to give me one good reason to live. 

He drove four hours and spent a few hundred dollars to help me get away from the abusive situation I'd landed myself in. It was just enough to keep me from pulling the trigger. However, the events that had led to that moment had stripped me of all my hope, most of my values, and most of my resources....all while I was living in a new place where I knew nobody. For three years, I struggled every day with the question, "What matters?" To me, nothing did. I experienced what's called "anhedonia" - a complete lack of ability to feel joy or pleasure - even though I had gone so far as to see a psychiatrist and get on antidepressants. I felt a small bit of energy occasionally, but not much else. 

I was still in this state when I met my husband, and I felt a spark immediately - the first in a long time. I found myself tongue-tied around him, a first for me. During those three years of completely absence of life in my life, I had come to realize that there was only one thing that actually mattered to me: love. I didn't have much, and never had. So his attention became a small sliver of hope. 

That experience was the ultimate in vulnerability. I had nothing left to take - no pride, no definable self-image, no hope - and nothing left to protect. 

I still can't believe that he found things to like about me. It was his words that I latched on to - telling me that he thought I was courageous for making the move that I had made, that I was strong for having gotten through the things that happened to me, and that I was kind despite my lack of verbal filter. Today, I cry look a fool over silly things - a good rendition of the Star Spangled Banner or a simple act of kindness at the grocery store will leave me too choked up to speak - and it embarrasses me horribly when it happens! I feel safe with him, so I like that I can be vulnerable and not worry, and yet, I experience vulnerability in social situations that I dislike. As I've recovered, my children have grown closer to me, which has enriched my life, but I have trouble distinguishing whether or not to pay attention to others' criticisms.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

KathyBatesel said:


> I was still in this state when I met my husband, and I felt a spark immediately - the first in a long time. I found myself tongue-tied around him, a first for me. During those three years of completely absence of life in my life,* I had come to realize that there was only one thing that actually mattered to me: love. I didn't have much, and never had. So his attention became a small sliver of hope.*


 Just leaving this post.. of the darkest hours of your life ...is a walk in vulnerability here on TAM... 

And you had the COURAGE to share it .... good for you !



> That experience was the ultimate in vulnerability. I had nothing left to take - no pride, no definable self-image, no hope - and nothing left to protect.
> 
> *I still can't believe that he found things to like about me. It was his words that I latched on to - telling me that he thought I was courageous for making the move that I had made, that I was strong for having gotten through the things that happened to me, and that I was kind despite my lack of verbal filter*.


*His words*..on that note *>>*










> *Today, I cry look a fool over silly things - a good rendition of the Star Spangled Banner or a simple act of kindness at the grocery store will leave me too choked up to speak - and it embarrasses me horribly when it happens! I feel safe with him, so I like that I can be vulnerable and not worry, and yet, I experience vulnerability in social situations that I dislike. As I've recovered, my children have grown closer to me, which has enriched my life, but I have trouble distinguishing whether or not to pay attention to others' criticisms*.


 Wow... you've come an Amazing way from what you described as "anhedonia" (I looked that up, never heard of it)...your husband's early attention... that small sliver of hope... can we really know how important we are to some people ?? 

We may not know if just a kind word out from a stranger saved a life that day... I've heard many stories as this... just a simple  could change a destiny. 

I, too, tear up darn well EVERY TIME I hear the Star Spangled banner... I love your ending here, I think you feel the freedom today... and God bless that sweet husband of yours !

What you say makes me think of a small snippet in a book I have on my shelf, never really read it but one day skimming through...I read THIS....it jumped out at me...resonated with me very strongly..enough to highlight it pointing arrows... I think you might like this...



> It's time to discard our culture's testosterone fueled equation of sensitivity with weakness... I've had it with being told to "get a thicker skin" or that I'm overly sensitive.... uninformed remarks that my well meaning parents and perhaps yours, used to spout ... that have been laid to rest long ago. These days, I prize my receptiveness , it gentle sensuality, and will describe ways you can feel *RESILENT* enough to do the same. As a healer and a woman, I want to be penetrable to emotions.
> 
> I have no desire to become calloused, numb, or hermetically sealed to give the frightened part of me the illusion I'm safer. That would be an outright deception, crippling my intuition, eclipsing my romance with life. Of course you don't want to get overloaded. But feeling less isn't the answer...building a solid core and learning to protect you emotional accessibility are.
> 
> ...


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Right on target with my current struggle looking at going back to work. 

Becoming an accidental SAHW for over a year has brought me back to the feminine side that I missed. It seems that "going back out there" requires that testosterone-fueled "thick skin" that makes me into someone I don't like. 

Is it possible to retain one's feminine side and not be left in the dust at the workplace? It does seem as if success goes to the tougher folks. 

I can relate to KathyB's experience--it made me cry because it comes so close to where I was a year ago. 

I now think of myself as a soft-shell crab.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

questar1 said:


> *Is it possible to retain one's feminine side and not be left in the dust at the workplace? It does seem as if success goes to the tougher folks.*
> 
> I can relate to KathyB's experience--it made me cry because it comes so close to where I was a year ago.
> 
> I now think of myself as a soft-shell crab.



All I can think to say is .... *1)* brush up on your communication skills...*2)* have good boundaries with others...and *3)* do the best darn Job you can do when you get hired somewhere.. What more can anyone ask of you !...

Here is 3 of the finest books to encourage you and enlighten -in getting along with people, whether work related or anywhere in life... invaluable lessons..... (with a little outline of the pages within)..."Boundaries" was always one of my favorites, I lent it out years ago & never got it back.... but it helped me understand so much, and to not be taken advantage of...... 

Now







questar1 ! 

*1. *


> * A review* :How To Win Friends and Influence People
> 
> His advice is so obvious and so easy, so how come it's so difficult to do yourself and so rarely found in others? Is it cynicism or manipulation? No, it's human nature: Do Unto Others ...
> 
> ...


*2.*.


> ....Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life: Books
> 
> Having clear boundaries is essential to a healthy, balanced lifestyle. A boundary is a personal property line that marks those things for which we are responsible. In other words, boundaries define who we are and who we are not. Boundaries impact all areas of our lives:
> 
> ...


*3.*


> The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Powerful Lessons in Personal Change Stephen R. Covey:
> (This says "for teens"...but they are all the same principles) ....


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Teehee, SA, you remind me of Glinda the Good Witch of the North. Do you go around in a rainbow bubble with a wand in your hand bestowing just the right dose of needed wisdom on unsuspecting visitors to Oz? 

This is great stuff. Now I realize I'm definitely on a course and can tilt my sail accordingly. 

Which reminds me (speaking of tilting), it's late and I need to go toss some rum in my hot chocolate. :toast:

Thanks for sharing your library. I always feel especially touched by offerings from people's special books....

...and I even like having homework!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

questar1 said:


> *Teehee, SA, you remind me of Glinda the Good Witch of the North. Do you go around in a rainbow bubble with a wand in your hand bestowing just the right dose of needed wisdom on unsuspecting visitors to Oz? *


 Awe thank you... I like that.... speaking of witches...Truth is, I can be wicked on occasion ...joked with my husband during a fight once I needed to smear green paint on my face & put a broom in between my legs....that lightened the argument to get us laughing together...I have my moments...(but they are few & far between - thankfully)....Glinda is much prettier anyway... 










I've always enjoyed a GOOD Book... writing is a passion... and yeah.. bestowing seeds of insight,  ideas, another perspective ....I like to delve deep into a subject...any subject... I figure if it's too much for a poster (too many details)... they can just ignore me or skim what may "fit" for them.. If anything might help... it was worth the effort...and the Smiley. 



> *This is great stuff. Now I realize I'm definitely on a course and can tilt my sail accordingly.
> 
> Which reminds me (speaking of tilting), it's late and I need to go toss some rum in my hot chocolate.* :toast:


"Tilting your sail accordingly"... I like that ... I love my Hot chocolate too, sip it many times reading here... I make mine with Milk & cocoa powder... too spoiled for the packets anymore. Here's the girl toast >>


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

For me, the journey of vulnerability and intimacy is very wrapped up in my relationship with God. Often I don't understand myself, but I am very comforted that God does. The Real Me - YouTube

1 Cor 13:12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully,* even as I am fully known.*


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

questar1 said:


> I now think of myself as a soft-shell crab.


I like this analogy!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Blonde said:


> *For me, the journey of vulnerability and intimacy is very wrapped up in my relationship with God. Often I don't understand myself, but I am very comforted that God does*. The Real Me - YouTube
> 
> *1 Cor 13:12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.*


It's the 1st I've heard of this song...thank you for sharing Blonde....some of the words reminded me of a song our Oldest used to play around the house a few yrs back... always loved this one *>> *

Stained Glass Masquerade - by Casting Crowns


> Is there anyone that fails
> Is there anyone that falls
> Am I the only one in church today feelin' so small
> 
> ...


I wonder how many feel as your song ....that only God sees & understands ... no plastic faces...

Me & my husband were talking about this tonight....he knows me to the depths, sometimes I think he knows ME better than I know myself.. he has said things in the past, in moments...where I questioned myself/ my own motives, he'd tell me how I am with a resolve... it was an uplift even...helping me love myself...in spite of myself. 

We both know each others deepest weaknesses, what could sear us like a knife...we've talked / we've cried together at times...I don't believe there would be anything about me - that would surprise this man...to the mean self centered woman I can be in an anxious moment/ worry does me in... to the dirty to the utterly tender ...neither of us have "wings" - but somehow with these flaws a part of us.. we still love madly. 



Tonight was a beautiful vulnerable ....On the way home from a family outing... listening to my zen.... 4 kids in the car....I clicked on Dance With My Father - Luther Vandross ...sitting there in the darkness where none could see... the words to that song.....Oh my







tears streaming down my face.. I knew this was coming...but played it anyway. 

Did I need to share all of this with him later... No...but that's me....our emotions are real, they are alive.. they move us ...showing us what is most important...

So after we shut the kids out....I begin to share...just saying the words "*Dance with my Father again*"... my voice cracking....here comes the tears....I just balled & hiccuped through "the story" of this song....he holds me tight.. he tells me he thinks I like to make myself cry...I tell him he is right.. I'm crazy.....calls me his sensitive woman....

He asks who I was thinking of listening >> it was HIM, our daughter, myself...as mid song...it changed to the grief of the Mother loosing her husband , remembering their dances...sharing that dept of feeling with him.. almost rejuvinates ME....and it makes him feel so very loved. 

We both find beauty in this type of vulnerability.. There is a regret though... last year I marked my calendar wrong (so rare for me)....for a special







......they both were dressed up & walked out the door that night after I took a few snapshots... only to return half an hour later ....The Bingo ladies told them it was the night before, they missed their Dance... MOM screwed up! 

I've been meaning to make up for this ... re-capturing what was lost... nothing wrong with our Living room , put up some special decorations..her prettiest dress, a flower in her hair... this song flooded all that back to me too... but this was a good thing...inspiration.... His B-day is in a few days... he is going to dance with his daughter...and me.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> It's the 1st I've heard of this song...thank you for sharing Blonde....some of the words reminded me of a song our Oldest used to play around the house a few yrs back... always loved this one *>> *
> 
> Stained Glass Masquerade - by Casting Crowns
> 
> ...


SA your marriage is exceptional IMO.

I don't feel safe in my marriage to be that vulnerable with my H. I didn't used to feel safe with God- I viewed him kinda like the Santa Claus song "He knows when you've been bad or good so be good for goodness sake"- I had a lot of FEAR of God, projected the way my daddy was onto God- "You better watch out, you better not cry, you better not pout" or you're going to be punished.

But over the years, God has shown me that He is not an abusive Father. My trust in Him has grown and now I feel safe with Him.



> So after we shut the kids out....I begin to share...just saying the words "Dance with my Father again"... my voice cracking....here comes the tears....I just balled & hiccuped through "the story" of this song....he holds me tight.. he tells me he thinks I like to make myself cry...I tell him he is right.. I'm crazy.....calls me his sensitive woman....


^^I can do that with God not with H.


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## silentghost (Jan 28, 2013)

You know Blonde....I can totally relate. 
I can never be vulnerable with my h....but with God....He's the one I can run to with my tears and all...and I know I will never be rejected.
In the end...God wraps me up in His arms and gives me peace and healing that I need.

IF it wasn't for God.....my life would not mean anything to me.


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## silentghost (Jan 28, 2013)

SA.....this topic is outstanding. You really get into the matters of the heart.

I have alot to say on this topic....but if I look inside myself to give any input....I'm at loss for words. My thoughts and feelings on this is like looking at a messy ball of yarn.... I don't know which end to grab first to unravel on how I feel.

The only thing that comes to mind on this topic is a verse from the Bible that sticks out:

' Above all else, guard your heart,
for it is the wellspring of life'.

and

'throwing pearls to the swine'

From my personal experience....I don't know what to say. Maybe I've guarded myself so much...that I can't really put my thoughts into words...never mind writing it on here. (DO I make sense??)

Nevertheless....I enjoy reading your posts...I find them very thought provoking.


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Blonde said:


> SA your marriage is exceptional IMO.
> 
> I don't feel safe in my marriage to be that vulnerable with my H. I didn't used to feel safe with God- I viewed him kinda like the Santa Claus song "He knows when you've been bad or good so be good for goodness sake"- I had a lot of FEAR of God, projected the way my daddy was onto God- "You better watch out, you better not cry, you better not pout" or you're going to be punished.
> 
> ...


Blonde,
I had to come back to this as it is kind of haunting me. 

I'm getting hammered in my other thread on going back to work after having huge trust issues w/ H. My fear is that if I go back to work, H will again assume that I'm "such a strong person" that he will again become someone I can't trust fully or rely on, someone who will leave me in harm's way. If I remain home (SAHW), I can cultivate a sense of his being the strong one who brings home the bacon and I can overlook my other fears about his inadequacies.

I think that somehow in what you are saying is a third option.

Maybe I don't need to look to him--or myself--to be "the strong one."

In the past year and a half of hell that has been my life, I began going to church and became a member for the first time ever. And I began having spiritual awakenings. In the midst of that, H decided to start coming to church with me. He has never in his entire life been a church-goer.

I don't think church is necessary for spiritual awakening but I found a good one in which I feel that is possible and acceptable.

I am taking to heart your description of not depending on another human being to be the place for our fears and our vulnerability. Maybe it's too much to ask. Maybe it's not fair of me to fault H for not always being "strong enough" to handle my fears and safety issues. It doesn't have to be him or me taking on that burden. 

Thank you for helping me look in another direction. As a friend of mine used to say (like his mantra or something), "It's never what's advertised!" I think my concern about going back to work is actually a spiritual dilemma. Looking at it that way opens up far more many options than just revising my CV. It's about this vulnerability stuff again.....


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Blonde said:


> I didn't used to feel safe with God- I viewed him kinda like the Santa Claus song "He knows when you've been bad or good so be good for goodness sake"- *I had a lot of FEAR of God,* projected the way my daddy was onto God- "You better watch out, you better not cry, you better not pout" or you're going to be punished.


When one realizes just how MANY scripture references speak this very thing, it's a little hard to run away from it.. 93 Bible verses about Fear Of The Lord.. 

.... I had my own share of this in my younger years...I liken it to a "merry go round" of feeling guilty for simple pleasures....like LOVING Rock Music







.. could never shake it, didn't want to shake it...I would have made a fine groupie but way too conservative......I loved my soap operas...R rated movies and being frisky with the boyfriend...going further than the church would consider "pure"... had I cut all of this out.. I know the result in my head would have led to almost resenting God -feeling he was an UTTER KILL JOY...

So instead...I tried to live and Enjoy what I enjoyed...riding the fence in many ways I suppose... I didn't think nothing I was doing was worthy of Hell... but I guess that wouldn't be what the Bible would say.. 

Always feeling we can't measure up, blood had to be shed..how serious... how ______ (can fill in those blanks ).....then who is right... the "greasy grace" crowd or those who are so heavenly minded.. they can't relate to the problems & struggles of others...and come off too judgemental ...as really....both sides can find much scripture to support their beliefs...

At the end of the day , for me... warring this out in my brain for many years ....I put the most weight here...







and having self compassion on ourselves - yet doing the best to leave that gift at the alter until we make it right...as much as we can.. 

You've probably heard that story of the Mom & little girl praying at Night..she was frightened by something... and Mom says upon leaving..."'Just remember God is always here for you..Jesus Loves you" ....and she says back to her Mom..."*But sometimes I just need somebody with skin on"*....

How true is that.. I can relate to her feelings there.....I pray , I hope, I dream, but it's generally through other people /events -their hands, their words that comfort & support us... along our path... this is that connection that makes God feel more REAL ...for me anyway. 

I'll never forget watching 20/20 or Dateline.. these men were captured during war -held for YEARS in isolation.. no human contact....they were kept in the dark ...only given enough food & water to survive....this man was interviewed...he said something profound...that I never forgot, it wasn't the love of his family that kept him alive ...the memories, he had even given up hope he'd see them again... it wasn't even faith in God...after a time this really messes with your mind....what kept him hanging on...was hearing the tapping of the other prisoners around him....this was HIS ONLY CONNECTION to the outside world....this was all he could look forward to in a day...that helped him hang on.... I can't imagine being a prisoner of War .. but surely this man has some insight for us all.. 



> *But over the years, God has shown me that He is not an abusive Father. My trust in Him has grown and now I feel safe with Him*.


 I so believe our Creator wants us to be happy, to enjoy our lives -heartily ...just be careful to bless others along the way.. do what we can....like this >> 










I call myself a *"Deist*" these days.. a little explaining here (post #24) *>> *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/politics-religion/139209-what-church-faith-you-2.html...but I'll always find many scriptures uplifting, encouraging, wisdom filled (I have many Proverbs circled with arrows pointing to them)...and the whole comforting the weary....who can deny these things...I feel this... the "setting of eternity' in our 's...


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

SA, as usual, you nailed it... 

Most of our questionable behaviors toward each other are (IMHO) a result of feeling disconnected from our fellow humans. Ironically what we most crave is feeling connected while our behavior drives us apart from each other. 

I think people focus too much on trying to please Jesus (etc.) through ritual and creed when what he really was trying to teach was: "Could you people just be kind to each other? could you just get along?" You'd think that would be a simple thing. But it's easier to wear a hairshirt, flog yourself, and memorize a zillion Bible verses than to reach out and make a connection in a world full of petty hurts that leave us untrusting and lonely. 

In a way we are all prisoners tapping on the walls.... You never know when your own tapping is exactly what touches someone else's being and keeps them going.


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