# Need clarity please



## Annesnerl (Dec 8, 2013)

I should say that I wish I had found this forum when I first discovered my husband's secret life! I have posted that we are in reconciliation and things are much better. He has only admitted to what I actually found and says that I bring us back to the beginning every time I ask questions. So, I am hoping that someone can help me see what is truth and what is fiction. 

I will start with what I have learned you call DDay. I had gone to lunch with a friend for her birthday and stopped back at my husbands office to use the restroom. He is a lawyer and I am his secretary-so there are only two of us in the office. As I unlocked the outer door, I heard a loud crash from his office. Thinking that I had startled him-I walked down the hall saying it's just me. As I reached for his door he threw his weight against it and wouldn't let me open it. I could hear him buckling his pants and asked what he was doing. He said he was looking to see if he had testicular cancer-really creative-especially since the lights were off. I kept trying to open the door and started crying realizing that someone was in there. He never budged. I really did have to use the restroom so left the hall for a minute. By the time I came out he had the door open. By this point someone could have left or have been hidden. I left sobbing without checking. About an hour later he emailed me that he had been masturbating to porn and was embarrassed and didn't want me to see. I think letting me think there was someone in there was actually worse-but he doesn't agree. So, was it that simple or was he Skypeing with someone or was someone in there?

The women: Mia: a secretary at the courthouse he had been doing free child custody work for at least 10 years. The woman I immediately thought was behind the door. He also coached her daughter in soccer and I had noticed him checking out her figure before. She had also just given him a $300 gift certificate for Christmas. She used to just give him a new coffee cup. She made a big deal about giving him the gift certificate in front of me. Someone else confirmed that everyone thought he had a crush on her. When I told him I thought she was the one in his office-he wanted to know why. When I reminded him about the gift certificate-he finally confessed that he gave her the cash to buy it so that I wouldn't complain about him spending so much money on himself at Christmas. I had already spent more on gifts for him. Of course the biggest pain I felt from this revelation was that they were so close that they could lie to my face and put on a big show about the gift. I kept hearing him say you shouldn't have over and over. After several days of arguing I asked him to stop doing free legal work for her. He showed me an email he sent her. I kept asking how did she respond-he said she never did. During all of the arguing he kept offering me his phone. I finally looked at it that night to see if she had responded. I found an additional email he had sent her telling her to disregard the one he showed me. I also found out about the second woman. 

Mary: an old college girlfriend he had reconnected with on Facebook. The first email I found asked her to get ready for a romantic lusty sexual adventure. I could not believe after all of the swearing on the bible that he was only guilty of porn-here was an e,ail to meet someone at 5:45 on 1/4/13. I woke him up and we argued for at least 24 hours-still lots of denials even with emails saying he wished he had married her and that he was thinking of going to see her. He claimed it was only emails. More later.


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## Annesnerl (Dec 8, 2013)

I found out that I have unknown detective skills and I managed to find her on Facebook-where he says this started. She finally answered my questions and said that they had planned phone sex-hence the email about getting ready for the lusty sexual adventure. They did talk on January 4th to set up times for later and she says they also talked about getting a hotel room at some point-which he still denies. He denied this phone call until I showed him the phone records. He says they never met because she lives in another city. We subsequently started marriage counseling. Do to those hidden detective skills, I knew there were missing emails. He was very frustrated that I kept asking what else-he claimed there was nothing out there worse than what I had already found. They had also exchanged pictures-the ones I found were not objectionable-although she did video herself in a not sexy night gown. On one of those detective stints on the computer I discovered the next woman. 

Alyson-the first google chat I found was dated 12/31 where he talked about feeling her hands on his a..and her heels on his thighs. Quite a shocker considering he swore so often there was only Mary and just emails. Those of you that have discovered this type of thing are familiar with the feeling that your heart is about to explode from your chest-that's about how I felt. That chat also include the phrase that he just wanted to hold her and kiss her and that he had a strong chemical pull towards her-not quite in love with her. But he did mention the word love. At this point my daughter finds me sobbing at the. Computer and begged me not to put her through this anymore-so, I packed his things and put them in the driveway and brought her to my father in laws-he was not happy about that-but I do not have any family to turn to. I had printed out that email and left it on the suitcase. He found it when he came home-I didn't want to call him as he was picking our son up from soccer. In the meantime I had found lots of emails and google chats-which I had no idea existed starting from April of 2012 through January of 2013. Most of them were graphic sex talk of what he wanted to do to her and when would she meet him. They had a meeting set up in June-but nothing after that saying whether it took place or not. Lots of missing emails-or emails that took place when he saw her at the courthouse. The old excuse with Mary that nothing happened couldn't work with this one because he saw her several times a week. There were also a string of chats asking for us to go eat with her and her husband and even asking him to take her to lunch with our 19 year old son who had a summer job at the. Courthouse. She was apparently texting and emailing my son as well. There were quite a few knocking her husband-the old I'm not in love with him line. Of course my husband is denying any physical contact and saying it was just fantasy talk and flirtation. But, how am I to know. Even though we work together-he has lots of unexplained time and he was seeing her at the courthouse. One of his friends had an affair with another girl at the courthouse and they found lots of private areas to hook up-so, could it have happened at the courthouse-yes. They were planning to meet at our office-so, could have happened there. I was out of town a few times last year-including. Family trip he backed out on the day before we left-12/28. I did forward one email to her husband-he called me and said he believed her that nothing happened-I went ahead and sent him all of the emails-even the ones putting him down-not sure if he still believed her after he read those. By this point I was completely devastated and did not catch the line about her sending my son nasty pictures. I figured thar out a few days later and discovered hundreds of texts and pictures between them. My son wanted to quit-I didn't want him to lose his job so called her boss. He had IT look at her computer and fired her on the spot. There was a rumor that she had been busy with lots of men...
Because one of the big issues was that he had lied again and omitted this girl when I asked if there were others besides Mary-he actually told me about one more. 

Kate: one of his high school friends sister-they went on one date in college. She came up to him at the Super Bowl party we attend every year and flirted with him-they exchanged emails and he had yet another email relationship. He says he deleted her emails because when he asked to meet her she said she doesn't sleep with married men. Not sure about any of this because he deleted his computer history. In fact, he bought a program to clean up his whole computer and deleted all of his social media accounts. I did ask Kate on Facebook if she slept with my husband and she said no 

Margaret: this was a childhood friend that he supposedly never had any romantic talk or interest in. I encouraged him to talk to her during our separation to get a woman's point of view. It wasn't until. He left his old phone that I found text messages from her telling him that her marriage was sh.. too and that. He shouldn't have to put everything into our marriage and get noting in return. At this point I learned that he had been telling people that this was my fault, he had only exchanged a few emails-but I was unstable and he was shielding me from the reality of our situation. Nice-right? I also found out that he and Margaret exchanged over a hundred text messages, lots of emails and several calls every month-she lives in Canada-so, at least they weren't meeting. After we reconciled-she sent him a Fathers Day text telling him how much she respected him as a husband and father. Really-after three inappropriate relationships with other women, and the horrible verbal and sometimes physical abuse my children suffered? I think she was really hoping their marriages would crumble at the same time. 

Majella-just happened upon her when I checked the phone records from 12/31-10 calls that nigh-lots of texts and emails. Supposedly, they were high school friends she was going through a divorce and had legal questions and sounded suicidal. That's why he kept contacting her. I later found an email from her saying that I had not called her yet. He had apparently sent her an email warning her I was checking phone records and might call-but that he would get back in touch with her later.

So, here we are. Because of all of the lies-I don't know what to think happened or didn't happen. I have assumed the worst-we have both been tested. I have full access to his emails and have not seen anything suspicious. He is so much nicer to me than before-so, the quality of my day to day life has improved. I know he will never add to what I already know-he has sworn that I know everything too many times to recant now. I think he is remorseful about what he has done to our children and to me. However, since he is sticking to his no physical intimacy story-I don't think he has any idea how painful this has truly been. Nor, does he realize that I still wonder everyday why and will it happen again?


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## Stronger-now (Oct 31, 2013)

he is a serial cheater, the male version of an attention-wh*re.

Please listen to your daughter: don't put her through this anymore.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Schedule a polygraph.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You dont need clarity, you need a divorce lawyer!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> You dont need clarity, you need a divorce lawyer!


But not one who is a friend of your husband. Go for a rival of his. A rival is good. :FIREdevil:


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

No man would spend so much time in email, text and telephone sex romance. Men just don't put out so much time and energy to boost women's egos without getting their panties off.

Usually I think polygraphs are not so good because they are unreliable. Might work with your husband, but then he is such a pathologcial iiar that he might be able to beat a polygraph.

Your husband is a lawyer, which makes this even worse, since lawyers ought to have integrity.

Do a 180 on your husband and file for divorce. If you want reconciliation, you must have total remorse, as in he provides you with a timeline of all his sexual hook ups. Tell him he has one chance to come clean because you are sick of trickle truth.

Your husband is being nice to you. Why? Is it only because he wants to avoid a costly and life disturbing divorce?

One question you should ask you husband is how much strange vagina must he have to consider his life fulfilling?

If he insults you with this it was never physical rubbish, tell him that he must be a total wimp. 

Your husband is not material for reconcilation if he does not come clean. If you want to gain back your self respect, you must put his nuts in a vice. It is possible that your husband loves you in some way, but he certainly doesn't hold you in high regard.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, I'm so sorry to say that your husband is an unrepentant serial cheater. He doesn't think he's done anything wrong, he isn't sorry he did any of it, and he's got no plans to stop. His view of what a marriage should be is simply fundamentally different from yours. His view is what you've stumbled across. What you've found out is who he is. And it's who he's been for a long, long, long time. 

Btw, it is possible that he did not sleep with _all_ of these women, but you can be sure he slept with at least some of them and maybe a few others you don't know about yet. Some of his "friends" might have just been around to stroke his ego and prop up his rationalizations. Serial cheaters on this scale will tend to have a number of OW that fall into all categories - EA's, sexting, PA's, heavy flirtations, one night stands, long-term affairs, "deep, meaningful friendships" that offer only "moral support". But you can bet that even with all you've found, there are probably also a number of other OW with whom he was - at a bare minimum - very inappropriate. Men like your husband simply don't have any boundaries. And can't imagine why they would even want any.

He's not a good candidate for R, even with MC. This behavior is a part of who he is on a fundamental level. He may be able to change, but he would have to want to be an entirely different sort of man, every single day, for the rest of his life. It's pretty doubtful that anyone with the entitlement complex it takes to do what he's been up to is going to sincerely want to put that much effort into making his life less fun (for him) than it has been. Right now, he's still denying anything you can't prove because he's "waiting out the crazy". He figures if he denies it long enough, you'll eventually start to doubt yourself and feel crazy enough that you'll back off. Then he can resume his real life. The one you're interrupting right now with all this checking and sleuthing. The one that includes the wife and family at home _and_ all the extras on the side. 

I'm really sorry.


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## Annesnerl (Dec 8, 2013)

"Right now, he's still denying anything you can't prove because he's "waiting out the crazy". He figures if he denies it long enough, you'll eventually start to doubt yourself and feel crazy enough that you'll back off. Then he can resume his real life. The one you're interrupting right now with all this checking and sleuthing. The one that includes the wife and family at home and all the extras on the side. "

This is exactly what I am afraid of. Part of the reason that I was totally blind sided is because my husband was very religious-reading religious books constantly, attending daily mass and retreats-infidelity was the one thing I thought he would never do. However, the magnitude and number of women has me worried that this has been going on for years and not just the year that I found out about. Most of the texts and emails took place while he was home with me or at our office. On 1/2/13 he sent me a text about how much he loved me and what a great year we were going to have. He also sent one of the women a text about going to visit her. I just don't understand how he could claim to love me and do this to me. If he didn't love me why not just leave-this is far more painful. I have hope and doubt-very hard to overcome one and accept the other. 

I know there were other women-during our initial reconciliation there were lots of emails and text messages from other women that were way too friendly for business related questions. One even sent him a link to a dating site that has private messaging-they both claimed it was spam. I think he probably contacted most of the women and warned them that I am monitoring his email. He more than likely has an email account that I can't see. 

This has been a very difficult and painful year-I have so much sympathy for all of you going through this and those of you that have come through this whether through R or D. Many thanks to those of you who share their thoughts!


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Annesnerl said:


> I just don't understand how he could claim to love me and do this to me.


He may, in fact, love you. But you may find that this is what love is to your husband. This is his version of love and what he thinks his marriage should look like. So, I think it may be important for you to separate whether he loves you from whether or not his behaviors are something you can continue to live with. Love is not always enough.


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