# Success stories: overcoming duty sex or rejection



## jarhed (Nov 11, 2012)

It seems to be a common thread among many here that they have a LD spouse and in many cases may have sex often, but it is "duty sex" or the spouse will make excuses why he/she can't have sex right now - but can later.

I'll start the ball rolling. My wife and I have sex probably on average 4 times per week. I am HD and love the connection it gives me (or should give me) to my wife.

What ruins it is when I make a pass and get, "OK, geez - can we do it later, I have to do blahblahblah". Or, "I'm slammed at work" (we both work from home and miday is best b/c she is too tired at night and grumpy as hell in the morning if you wake her up.

When I get the basically "submission sex" like I'm giving in, come on. It all buy ruins it for me.

I've voiced this frustration for years and I always get "Well if you....". I nip that in the bud. Sex is not conditional on whether I was gone the previous day hunting, or kayaking-- that is an excuse and she has a ton of them.

I am a believer that we make time for the things that are important. If she wants to get botox, she makes it happen. Nails, going to the salon or whatever miraculously happens. Me asking for sex is an inconvenience. I always make sure she comes first and I love pleasing her. She expects to get her O and then says, "OK, come" if I am taking too long.

It is very difficult to not get pissy and "tit for tat" when getting duty sex or rebuffed. It takes a lot of redirection on my behalf to not retaliate with withholding things that are important to her as retaliation. This makes an unhappy house hold - but there sometimes is no other recourse.

SO- Can some of you share some success stories where you have been able to get the message across to your spouse and encourage them to be more sexual, affectionate, etc?

Before anyone lectures me on MMSP, I've mapped my ass off and I can go into detail if you want - but she is immune to mapping. 

Please share some success stories - this site is ridden with people with frustrations (myself included) so I'd like to hear some "Wins" that couples have had.

Cheers,
FFN


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Okay so to be sure I understand you: you and your wife have sex on average about 4 times per week and you wish for more but more importantly, you wish that she didn't make you feel rushed or like she is simply performing her duty and she's not really into it.

If what I wrote above is true I have to wonder why you aren't hearing her when you expect her to hear you?

She does not wish to have sex as often as you but she knows how much you need sex and so she does her best to accommodate you. 

I LOVE being at the beach. I love everything about the beach, sun, sand, surf, wind, seagulls, kids playing and screaming, music blaring...I love all of it! My husband, being Irish, can't take the sun. When we go on vacation I want to be on the beach by 10:00am and would LOVE to have pizza's delivered around 7:00pm. My husband tolerates the beach for about 4 hours tops.

Okay so your desire for sex is like my desire for the beach....got it? 

My husbands enjoyment for the beach ends at the second hour and his tolerance for the beach ends by the 4th hour. Your wife's desire and tolerance for sex is like my husband's desire and tolerance for the beach. Make sense?

Here's where your going wrong: I can not expect my husband to share in equal amounts my joy and desire for the beach. But I can expect him to give a good effort on my behalf, knowing how important it is to me. You cannot expect your wife to share in equal amounts your joy and desire for sex but you can expect her to show a good effort knowing how important it is to you.


Now go kiss your wife and be thankful she loves you enough to do her very best to accommodate your needs.


----------



## Married&Confused (Jan 19, 2011)

are you comparing going to the beach and sex?

if you want to go to the beach and your husband doesn't, you can go with friends. if jarhead's wife doesn't want sex, where does that lead him... friend?

but to his dilemma, there has to be compromise and communication. compromise as in sometimes his wife will just "go through the motions" to take care of his needs. communication as in his finding out how he can engage her more in the sexual activity so she is more into it most times.


----------



## jarhed (Nov 11, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Okay so to be sure I understand you


No, you don't. It isn't about qty. It is about having a spouse who wants you, wants to please you and who doesn't roll their eyes and say, Well we just did it two days ago.

Your analogy is cute, but comparing your annual beach trip to a healthy sex life is a stretch.

Don't get caught up in the #s. There is an over abundance of posts here about spouses that don't want to have sex, don't want to have it often, have duty sex, or like there like a pancake during sex.

This post was hopefully a way to share some success stories where folks worked through any/all of the above. Conceptual, if you will.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jarhed said:


> No, you don't. It isn't about qty. It is about having a spouse who wants you, wants to please you and who doesn't roll their eyes and say, Well we just did it two days ago.
> 
> Your analogy is cute, but comparing your annual beach trip to a healthy sex life is a stretch.
> 
> ...


I managed to come out the other side.

I took a two pronged approach:

1. I clearly communicated my expectations from a marriage.
2. *I clearly listened to hers as well.*

Nothing will kill someone's desire to please as quickly or thoroughly as resentment. 

My suggestion is to talk less, and listen more. You never know; somewhere in the interruptions may be her trying to tell you what would turn her on...like respecting her.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Divorce worked for me, since nothing else did. I found someone much more compatible. Success!

If you can't get her to realize how important sex and intimacy are to your relationship, you either accept it or move on, realizing that sex - and you - are not that important to her.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

jarhed said:


> No, you don't. It isn't about qty. It is about having a spouse who wants you, wants to please you and who doesn't roll their eyes and say, Well we just did it two days ago.
> 
> Your analogy is cute, but comparing your annual beach trip to a healthy sex life is a stretch.
> 
> ...


I see my analogy missed the mark.

2= number of times per week when wife is rushing you
4= number of times per week when wife willingly has sex with you.

When those numbers change from per week to per month, then you've got something to complain about.

Frankly I'm surprised your wife isn't here asking how she is supposed to fake enthusiasm for something she doesn't really want to do but only does because it make her husband happy.


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

jarhed said:


> It seems to be a common thread among many here that they have a LD spouse and in many cases may have sex often, but it is "duty sex" or the spouse will make excuses why he/she can't have sex right now - but can later.
> 
> I'll start the ball rolling. My wife and I have sex probably on average 4 times per week. I am HD and love the connection it gives me (or should give me) to my wife.
> 
> ...


If you have sex 4 times a week, how many times do you get rebuffed?

Does she rebuff you at one point of the day, says "how about X" and then follows through? Or does she rebuff you multiple times until she finally gives in reluctantly? The first is okay, the second not so much.

I'm not one who believes that you can expect your spouse to have the exact same desire for sex that you have. The best that can usually be hoped for is that the lower drive partner compromises on frequency and makes a genuine effort to "be there".

Sounds like your problem is more about attitude than frequency.

She is willing to compromise but wants to make it obvious that she's only doing it for your sake. Or, she's doing the best she can and that's not good enough for you.

Giving her the benefit of the doubt, I'd focus on selecting times and places most convenient for her and work on doing such a good job of meeting her needs that she feels better about meeting yours.


----------



## Tigerman (Apr 5, 2012)

You can't negotiate desire. To quote Saint Rollo (peace be upon him), "Negotiated desire only ever leads to obligated compliance." Four times a week of taking one for the team is not making sex into an appealing thing for her, no matter how much you to do make sure she gets off and how much you tell her it's important to you feeling connected to her. And poor frame/OI kills the tingles, as does constant pursuit. While you say you've MAPped your tail off, I'd bet that it's limited to physical and career stuff. All the stuff you write about your reaction to her lack of enthusiasm reeks of butt-hurt and covert contracts. She can sense that, I assure you, no matter how well you think you're keeping it bottled up. That probably creates suffocating pressure for her and makes her feel like sex is totally out of her control - something done for you because you "need" it, rather than something she can truly feel like she wants for herself and for you. You have to work on your frame and OI, and change the entire atmosphere about sex in your relationship. Which will take a lot of time, most likely. And you have to hope that you haven't done so much damage up to this point that she can't find her way back to genuinely desiring you.

How do I know all this? Because I've screwed it up royally over the last few years and am only now getting myself to a place where my frame is where it needs to be. I'm in great shape, professionally successful, doing well as a dad, and the life of the party. I've also been a big baby about sex, even though I wasn't emoting all over the place about it. The need for sexual validation from my wife just oozed through nearly every interaction with her, and that just makes for a very, very unattractive look. I've definitely pulled out of that now and am well along the way to where I need to be, although my wife has not yet come around. I'm more than a bit worried that it's too late in my case and she won't really ever come around, but I still need to keep moving myself in the right direction for me.

Anyway, if I get the butt-hurt vibe from reading your post, it must be clear as day to your wife in her interactions with you. It can be really, really hard, though, to recognize for oneself that it is happening and even harder to fix whatever it is inside you that causes that to happen. Good luck.


----------



## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

"wins" come in different forms.

or, if you can take a really expansive view, there is no winning and no losing.

my batting average is extremely low, but I genuinely don't care anymore, so it's less like the major leagues and more like a wiffleball game.

I consider my emerging independence a huge, huge win and the ability to be freed from having my life ruled by caring about this stuff borderline miraculous. 

I'm even tempted to say I'm glad things turned out the way they did for me because otherwise I would have never been compelled to sort myself out so much.

the point is-- expand your definition of "winning."


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

jarhed said:


> No, you don't. It isn't about qty. It is about having a spouse who wants you, wants to please you and who doesn't roll their eyes and say, Well we just did it two days ago.
> 
> Your analogy is cute, but comparing your annual beach trip to a healthy sex life is a stretch.
> 
> ...


I think what @jarhed is saying is he wants to be teased and seduced by his wife and for her to enjoy doing that for him as opposed to just giving it up and laying there. 

What @Anon Pink says is ALSO very true, but he is choosing to ignore that. BUT what he should take away from that is an understanding that his wife needs him to need it less in order for her to be able to enjoy and start wanting it! 

*My advice would be for Jarhed to ask her to "tease" you more often in place of having sex less often. *Odds are she might feel rather silly and somewhat objectified, so you will need to turn this into "compliment therapy" for her when she teases you. You seriously need to focus on making HER feel like she is the woman of your dreams and that everything she does satisfies you as a way to build her self confidence and get her to enjoy being more playful with you. Do NOT expect changes overnight, you will probably see improvement after more than a year of working on this. 

Another thing that may help, instead of initiating, tell her you are aroused but that you can wait for her if she needs you to. Demonstrate some patience by NOT getting upset when you do not get what you want, but you can communicate with her when things are rather challenging for you, and describe what you might do to deal with it (exercise, music, watch a distracting TV show) and let her participate in your feeling by sharing those things in a way that she KNOWS you are NOT being passive aggressive towards her by withdrawing. 

My wife has a frequency much lower than mine, but when she is in the mood I can hardly keep up with her. When she is not in the mood, she enjoys messing with my head in ways I have taught her that make me exquisitely happy. It is a work in progress... Has it been easy? NO!

Biggest change for me was to stop requesting/scheduling sex and allow it to happen naturally and use common sense.

Cheers, 
Badsanta


----------



## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

jarhed said:


> It seems to be a common thread among many here that they have a LD spouse and in many cases may have sex often, but it is "duty sex" or the spouse will make excuses why he/she can't have sex right now - but can later.
> 
> I'll start the ball rolling. My wife and I have sex probably on average 4 times per week. I am HD and love the connection it gives me (or should give me) to my wife.
> 
> ...


Couldn't read much past this point, if you disregard what she is saying and have done for years then it is little wonder she is not all over you.


----------



## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Holland said:


> Couldn't read much past this point, if you disregard what she is saying and have done for years then it is little wonder she is not all over you.


I'm not saying some of her reasons aren't excuses, BUT some of them may be real reasons why she doesn't feel connected to you, or why her desire for sex isn't what you want it to be.


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

In our 25 year marriage, sex was never that great to begin with. Never any big time passion for whatever reason. After 3 kids, (one being mentally handicapped) my heart attack and resulting anger issues, it was all duty sex for my wife. 

About 4 years ago I started mapping, lost weight and got my shiit together.
I can honestly say I/we are having the best sex of our lives. We have sex every Tuesday and every Friday. If she is on her period I get a BJ. No initiation is necessary. We both know what is going to happen on Tuesday and Friday and we both make it rock. 

Given that we know in advance, we PLAN for the eventuality of sex by managing our time. For example, if I have 2 or 3 really bad days, I will make certain to get rest before sex is going to happen. Same for my wife. I do not ever masturbate to conclusion. I save my seed for my wife.

I knew I had hit my stride when after sex my wife said "how can sex be this good after 25 years of marriage."

It CAN get better. I did work my asss off and there is no end to it. I must keep working. It's like raising a crop. You can't get one good crop and say, "that's it, I'm done." It's a life long process with no time for resting. The great part is that all the effort is paid back tenfold!


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> I managed to come out the other side.
> 
> I took a two pronged approach:
> 
> ...


#1 is very important. I remember telling my wife what I expected AND what I was going to do IF she did not try. She was under the impression that I was not willing to implode our entire life over sex. When she finally saw that I was dead serious, things changed almost over night. The great part is that she actually ENJOYS the sex now. It's not something she does out of fear or dread.


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Okay so to be sure I understand you: you and your wife have sex on average about 4 times per week and you wish for more but more importantly, you wish that she didn't make you feel rushed or like she is simply performing her duty and she's not really into it.
> 
> If what I wrote above is true I have to wonder why you aren't hearing her when you expect her to hear you?
> 
> ...


I like your analogy.
What I did was bring a fully air conditioned motor home with 2 pull outs, full kitchen and a fridge packed with cold beer. That would get your husband to the beach every day, n'est pas?

My wife loves "making love" and I like fuucking. If I give her what she wants and needs, I always get mine too.


----------



## jarhed (Nov 11, 2012)

Believe it or not, I was hoping this would not really be about ME - but that people would chime in with some success stories about what has worked for them and a positive thread would exist amongst an abundance of posts about problems or issues.

Not sure what to make of FireFly's post. Sounds like an acid trip.

Anyhoo - I may be expecting way too much in the form of sweet affection and being prioritized by my wife. It just may not be doable for her. I've been in past relationships where I was truly craved (sexually and non sexually) and it was Sooooo gratifying. 

I'm a really touchy affectionate person, I had three older sisters that showered me with love growing up - maybe this is why? But I'm happiest when I'm doing everything I can to make my woman feel taken care of, providing the bread and feeling loved, ie and showing my affection through physical touch. And I feel best when I'm made to feel appreciated and loved back.

I've dialed back some of my Alpha over the years b/c that might have been a problem early in our marriage (ex marine, maybe verbally harsh or critical - but I worked on it and changed that behavior). I believe all of us are a work in process. So, I can always get better. I feel that she believes "i'm the way I am - tough $hit" and that is disparaging.

Instead of trying to pull words out of her to uncover what she needs and voicing what I need (I've been doing this for years in MC and in general); I'm going to back off. Not pressure her and do some soul searching. 

I could very well see quietly approaching her and just saying we tried and this isn't a loving marriage and we need to move on.

Right now, I'm going to continue to better myself mentally, physically and professionally and back off over communicating. My gut tells me (b/c I've disengaged in the past) that she will cruise through life not really caring that I've done so.


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

jarhed said:


> Believe it or not, I was hoping this would not really be about ME - but that people would chime in with some success stories about what has worked for them and a positive thread would exist amongst an abundance of posts about problems or issues.
> 
> Not sure what to make of FireFly's post. Sounds like an acid trip.
> 
> ...


I suggest this following conversation with your wife. "Honey, I know that it's difficult for you to have sex 4 times a week and it's difficult for me too because I want it everyday. However, I would rather have your desire than forced frequency, just to placate me. How many times per week would be comfortable for you?"

If she says once a week, go with that and do NOT complain. Be your own man. I bet you a buck that when she sees that you can handle only once a week, she'll be more into you and once will become twice and so forth.


----------



## MaritalArts (Jun 16, 2016)

UMP said:


> ...If she says once a week, go with that and do NOT complain. Be your own man. I bet you a buck that when she sees that you can handle only once a week, she'll be more into you and once will become twice and so forth.


There is a risk this could backfire, though. Once she sees that once a week is okay, she may think once every two weeks is sufficient. Or, you may just get stuck in the new "normal." However, you would know for sure where you stand in her priorities, and could choose to leave with a clear conscience for having tried.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jarhed said:


> Believe it or not, I was hoping this would not really be about ME - but that people would chime in with some success stories about what has worked for them and a positive thread would exist amongst an abundance of posts about problems or issues.


Mine was very positive. It just happened to be critical of you. Here is what I hear from the above paragraph:

"I came here to understand how I could get my wife to change, not to hear how I could be contributing to the problem."

Nobody changes unless they want to. You can't make her change. However, you could improve your listening, to include allowing her to vent, to avoid her building resentment. 

Or ignore what I say, and allow it to fester.



jarhed said:


> I've dialed back some of my Alpha over the years b/c that might have been a problem early in our marriage (ex marine, maybe verbally harsh or critical - but I worked on it and changed that behavior). I believe all of us are a work in process. So, I can always get better. I feel that she believes "i'm the way I am - tough $hit" and that is disparaging.


Alpha is not synonymous with @sshole. It is much closer to leadership. How many leaders that could not give a **** less about you or your thoughts actually earned your respect, Marine? My bet is few to none.



jarhed said:


> Instead of trying to pull words out of her to uncover what she needs and voicing what I need (I've been doing this for years in MC and in general); I'm going to back off. Not pressure her and do some soul searching.


Or you could listen to her without cutting her off, validate her feelings, and acknowledge that there are things that you could do better in the relationship as well. 



jarhed said:


> I could very well see quietly approaching her and just saying we tried and this isn't a loving marriage and we need to move on.


Why don't you clean up your own squad before you tell the squad leader in the rank in front of yours how to clean up his?

Additionally, she is not a Marine. You don't tell her to embrace the suck and get over it. At least, not without her building resentment.



jarhed said:


> Right now, I'm going to continue to better myself mentally, physically and professionally and back off over communicating. My gut tells me (b/c I've disengaged in the past) that she will cruise through life not really caring that I've done so.


I have a reading assignment for you, assuming that you are not ready to tell me to go pound sand at this point. The book is called "Hold On To Your N.U.T.'s" by Wayne Levine. It is not only a book on relationships, but it is also about living a principle-centered life. Plus, it has some great tips in how to make your wife feel safe enough to approach you with her concerns.

Good luck.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

If you focus on frequency and quality this is expected. Try to focus also on meaning, what does it mean for you and her. If there's no commonality in the individual meanings then it's not working as well or at all. It's like art. Focus too much on execution and techniques and you may miss the underlying meaning.


----------



## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

jarhed said:


> I may be expecting way too much in the form of sweet affection and being prioritized by my wife. It just may not be doable for her. I've been in past relationships where I was truly craved (sexually and non sexually) and it was Sooooo gratifying.


you had other relationships that were more gratifying sexually, yet you married your wife.

could it be that you actually have a higher priority than getting laid?

if so, is it possible that there is a misallocation of emotional investment in getting laid?

could this be your issue, rather than what your wife is doing?



jarhed said:


> I'm a really touchy affectionate person, I had three older sisters that showered me with love growing up - maybe this is why? But I'm happiest when I'm doing everything I can to make my woman feel taken care of, providing the bread and feeling loved, ie and showing my affection through physical touch. And I feel best when I'm made to feel appreciated and loved back.


can you be cool with just doing nice things for a woman without expectation of a sexual paycheck?

what if you just tried backing off on the expectation of sex for a while to relieve the pressure on both of you?



jarhed said:


> I've dialed back some of my Alpha over the years b/c that might have been a problem early in our marriage (ex marine, maybe verbally harsh or critical - but I worked on it and changed that behavior). I believe all of us are a work in process. So, I can always get better. I feel that she believes "i'm the way I am - tough $hit" and that is disparaging.


well, is she ok how she is or not? if she didn't change at all, would you be ok with it? if not, then why are you with her? ask yourself if you really like her or just an idea of what you'd like her to be.

you can even turn this type of questioning back on yourself. yes, you can get better, but should she accept you as you are today even if you never improved?



jarhed said:


> Instead of trying to pull words out of her to uncover what she needs and voicing what I need (I've been doing this for years in MC and in general); I'm going to back off. Not pressure her and do some soul searching.


good



jarhed said:


> I could very well see quietly approaching her and just saying we tried and this isn't a loving marriage and we need to move on.


see how the backing off works before you jump to conclusions



jarhed said:


> Right now, I'm going to continue to better myself mentally, physically and professionally and back off over communicating. My gut tells me (b/c I've disengaged in the past) that she will cruise through life not really caring that I've done so.


you've got to approach this in the right way. you're not setting a trap for her. you are just chilling out and letting things happen to see if you're actually compatible. it's not a staring contest.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Jarhed--I know from personal experience that @farsidejunky 's words can feel like alcohol in an open wound, but they also have the same positive effect if you'll let them.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

jarhed said:


> Believe it or not, I was hoping this would not really be about ME - but that people would chime in with some success stories about what has worked for them and a positive thread would exist amongst an abundance of posts about problems or issues.
> 
> Not sure what to make of FireFly's post. Sounds like an acid trip.
> 
> ...


First off, if you are getting intimacy 4 days a week - regularly - then consider yourself blessed. I'm sure it's not all THAT bad or you would have stopped it a long time ago. I feel like I'm in a similar boat with you to an extent. My wife and I have good days, some great days and so-so days. Lately I've been feeling that sex has become stale lately. BUT, I need to keep in my mind that we have 3 kids that are in the absolute WORST possible point in their lives: 19B, 15G and 10G. Not sure where you are kids wise, but let me assure you that tweens and teens are major buzzkills. You're sneaking sex in the wee hours of the morning, occasionally sneaking it in the basement or bathroom and trying to balance all the demands that go with kids who both want and need an active lifestyle for growth, development and for college application fill in... 

I think we are further along than you and your wife though. The biggest tools we have for a solid marriage are COMMUNICATION and ACTIVE LISTENING. What I bolded from a snippet of your post above is very important - IMHO. You have clearly stated how you feel love. But you also state that is how you SHOW love. The question you need to ask yourself - is this how your wife FEELS love? Or is there another avenue that appeals to her better? Ideally, you two work out a plan of give and take where you show her love the way she is mostly likely to understand it while she shows her love for you in your method of understanding. Look into the 5 love languages. Didn't use it personally - because we're lucky in our communication tbh - but it's been used to good effect by a number of couples here.

Good luck.


----------

