# 'Short-Term' Text Flirting



## StickMan1

Married 15 years - most outsiders would consider our marriage a good marriage, we're both very open, good to each other, publicly affectionate, still hold hands, etc.

Earlier this year, we started to disconnect a bit. Our nightly routine consisted of watching separate TVs, going to bed at different times, etc. During this time, a very hard financial situation came up, putting both my wife and I in a stressed out place. That's when 'it' happened...

In April this year, a male mutual of my wife and I, who plays in a band and lives 3 states away, text messaged a bunch of us to let us know when the band would be coming to town again. 

Initiated by that one simple text, within a week, the OM and my wife texting each other things like 'Wanna come over? ', 'I want you', 'I want to kiss you', 'I can't stop thinking about you', etc. The discovery of this came when the OM accidentally texted me instead of my wife - the text read... 'I REALLY want you... I LOVE talking to you. We both have so much at stake'. Upon receiving this msg I immediately checked the phone records, there were around 200 texts exchanged between the two of them in this one week.

My world imploded. We fought through the pain, agreed that it was an 'eye-opener' for the both of us, she was extremely apologetic, we bought new wedding rings to symbolize our renewed marriage. By summer, things were healing, we were doing good.

My mistake: rather than asking for no-contact w/ the OM, I tried to make it work by letting him know I didn't approve of what happened and I wanted their contact to be limited. They both agreed and swore it would never happen again. I've closely monitored the situation over the past 8 months - while I haven't seen things like what were originally said, I'd see random things like 'I miss you', 'can't wait to see you again', etc. I routinely check phone records and the volume of texts between the two is not what it was when the A happened, and they can go weeks without contact.

Last week the OM came to town and a bunch of us went out for dinner with him. When he left to catch his flight, he texted all of us 'Thanks... love ya'll'. My wife's response was (I saw it on her phone, but she didn't know this), 'I love you', 'You look so good '.

That was it for me. On the hour drive home we discussed our 'friendship' with him, and she fell apart. She said things like 'I've done everything to show my love for you and you still don't trust me'. She has been WONDERFUL to me in all respects, but I can't do this anymore. She feels betrayed because she says that's just her personality (she is a very friendly, flirty person) and she's not doing anything wrong or crossing the line.

Where do I go from here? I feel torn between getting rid of this threat I feel from the OM and the remaining lack of trust my wife and I have, but at the same time I do like the OM as a friend, but I think they're just asking for more trouble.

Thank you in advance!


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## Cubby

Here's where you get the 2 x 4 to the head: Why on earth would you go out to dinner with this piece of s**t after what happened? A friend? No way. He's not a friend. What kind of friend goes after your wife?

You're going to get the same advice from everyone who responds to this: No contact ever again with this predator. For both of you.

And by the way, just the fact that you allowed continued contact makes you appear less attractive to your wife. She's more attracted to the predator. He takes what he wants. You need to stand up and defend your marriage in a strong, confident, firm way. Chicks dig that.


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## sigma1299

Make her pick. You or him. The harder she resist the more you know you are right.


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## Cubby

More: just because you've checked phone records don't think there hasn't been communication. They might have taken it underground. She might have a burner phone. Get a voice-activated recorder and velcro under the seat of her car. You could be surprised at what you find. Don't get caught.


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## StickMan1

Point taken Cubby! I was wondering the same thing. Here's how things were rationalized....

It was 'short-term', it didn't really go THAT far (though it did go over the line), he's a 'friend' of a bunch of us that live in the same town as us, it'll NEVER happen again, and on and on...

So since bringing up no contact, my wife now feels betrayed because of how she's put everything into repairing us. Thus me saying no contact that implies that I don't trust her when she hasn't done anything wrong since the initial incident. She says what happened wasn't 'that big of a deal' and that she's blocked any silly feelings toward him out of her head and she's 100% focused on me. By the way she treats me, this would be very true.

I'm determined to end this threatened feeling I get when there's interaction between them. I want to trust her and since she IS doing everything to prove to me that she's only into me, I tried being the 'nice' guy and going back to the way things were. That's not working.


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## Cubby

I'm just wondering how they got to the point of talking about "kissing" and "I want you" and "wanna come over" in just one week. It makes me think there might be more you don't know about. Have you thoroughly checked emails?


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## StickMan1

Cubby said:


> I'm just wondering how they got to the point of talking about "kissing" and "I want you" and "wanna come over" in just one week. It makes me think there might be more you don't know about. Have you thoroughly checked emails?


I have been a master spy all along. She provided her email and FB passwords, nothing there.

That's what I struggle with. No other evidence of over the line behavior except for the 'you look so good ' from 2 days ago. One prob we have had though is deleted texts she didn't want me to 'takeget out of context', because she is a very loving, flirty type of person. She routinely says things like ' I love you' to all her friends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

You can't nice your what thru this so stop trying. Start protecting your marriage and demand no contact. It will be your wifes choice to except this protect, just like its you choice to stop sharing your wife.

Sir you have to state your boundries firmly but calmly and state the consequences for when they are crossed. 

As she labels you controling, insecure, jealous, or what ever word your wife choice to deflect your issue, it still is *your* boundries that protect you from the train wreck coming if this relation between her and "band guy" continues to grow.

Simply bought you will not share your wife and you will not control her so she does have the choice to stay married to you with your boundries or leave and be with "band guy". You however will not be disrespected by her own lack of boundries for her own marriage.

See how this works? Its about her boundries and your boundries...it has nothing to do with being controling and insecure or jealous. Its all about what she is doing and what you are doing in protecting, working on a healthy,and affair proof marriage. 

Its your call stay married to a flirty girl or stand up and set the boundry that the only flirting is going to be with you. The only texting a hundred times a day is going to be with you. The only "I love you" is going to be with you.


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## the guy

Your old lady texted a guy telling him she loves and misses him and she is the one that feels betrayed.

What kind of manipulating bull sh1t is that?

Brother were the hell are the boundries in this marriage?


How could you possibly keep a straight face when she told you she was the one betrayed?


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## the guy

I have been here so long and I still can't believe in how waywards keep surprising me with the crap they say to deflect the reality that they are trying to get laid by someone other then thier spouse!!!!!!!


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## the guy

Cubby said:


> I'm just wondering how they got to the point of talking about "kissing" and "I want you" and "wanna come over" in just one week. It makes me think there might be more you don't know about. Have you thoroughly checked emails?


@ Cubby, you have been here since Mar.'12 you know this crap has a script and its like an iceberg....OP is very wise in going James Bond on his wife and protecting his butt from more deciet.


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## walkonmars

Single women flirt.
Cheating wives too.
Does she want to be single again? Tell her it can be arranged.

She's in an emotional affair = cheating.


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## Cubby

StickMan1 said:


> I have been a master spy all along. She provided her email and FB passwords, nothing there.
> 
> That's what I struggle with. No other evidence of over the line behavior except for the 'you look so good ' from 2 days ago. One prob we have had though is deleted texts she didn't want me to 'takeget out of context', because she is a very loving, flirty type of person.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Stickman, the deleted texts are troubling. There's a reason they're deleted and it isn't because she simply thinks you'll take it out of context. There's some bad stuff there.

In April when you found out, let's assume all it was was an Emotional Affair (EA). As you learn about affairs you'll see that a chemical reaction occurs when she texts/talks to him called dopamine. It's a feel-good chemical that also occurs with drug users. It's highly addictive. It's the "I'm in love" chemical. Everytime she was notified of a new text, she got a shot of dopamine. She loved that. The only way to end the affair is for her to go no contact with him. Then she'll go through withdrawal, but eventually she'll get over it. But it will take months. By allowing continued contact, she continues to get the addictive high. That's why she was so excited to see him the second time. And that's why she can never see him again.

Educate yourself. Read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. Read this forum. Learn about boundaries and establish them. The good news is that it appears she doesn't want to lose you. But you have to reign her in and take control of this situation. You'll get more advice here. These guys know what they're talking about. You seem willing to learn.


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## the guy

I still can't get over OP's wife stating her feeling betrayed...


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## sigma1299

Stickman - take some advice from someone who's been where your wife is. I had a 7 week EA with an old gf from high school. The day she contacted me I hadn't thought of her in 20 years - 10 days later we were swapping I love you's. 

Your wife is neck deep. Nothing on her FB? She's got an alternate account - it's so easy to bury this stuff it's laughable and without keyloggers and VAR's you'll never know. If your wife was truly focused on you and putting everything into repairing your marriage she'd go NC with this guy. If you had a female acquaintance and your wife said, "stickman, she makes me uncomfortable." What would you do? You might protest briefly but you'd want your wife to not feel threatened and you'd adjust the relationship with that acquaintance accordingly. Right? 

She is trying to eat her cake and have it to by convincing you that you are being unreasonable, that you have now betrayed her. RUBBISH!! She is the one telling someone other than her spouse that she loves them, that she misses them!!! Once a relationship crosses the line into inappropriate it can never go back. They forfeited the right to be friends when they told each that they loved the other. 

You must make her go NC and the quicker the better. This stuff spreads like wild fire and is just as hard to kill. By not taking a very hard line you are actually bringing them closer together. You are the force trying to keep them apart, you provide them a common enemy to their relationship, something to unite them. 

It's time to be ass. To put your foot down and protect your marriage. Yes she may split but if she does she was already gone anyway. The smart money says she won't though. If she sticks to the script as well as she has so far once she really believes you'll leave her over this she'll come out from under the ether fast.


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## the guy

Listen to Cubby cuz I'm just going to tyoe the exact same. with one addition...exposure.

If "band guy" has a GF or is even married then you want to expose this to her.
1) it will end the A when "band guy tries to save his own relationship
2) it will give you an extra set of eyes in comfirming the A is either continuing or stopped


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## walkonmars

the guy said:


> I still can't get over OP's wife stating her feeling betrayed...


Blameshifting. Getting him to back off and give her some "freedom".
Expecting him to tuck tail. She knows him, and plays him like a virtuoso.


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## Thundarr

You have to get serious right now and I don't mean talk the talk. You don't have to divorce but it does have to be on the table.

No contact, complete transparency, and no resentment and entitlement are not negotiable on her part. State the facts that no contact and complete transparency are how it will work and if she doesn't like that or is pissed then file papers (filing for divorce doesn't mean it goes to completion so don't think I'm a bitter TAMER please). 

The point is you have to take control and exude self respect and other qualities that are attractive. Anything less than being 100% firm will come across as weak and unattractive to her. There's a saying that you have to be willing to lose something in order to save and believe me brother that is the case here.


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## Thundarr

Cubby said:


> Here's where you get the 2 x 4 to the head: Why on earth would you go out to dinner with this piece of s**t after what happened? A friend? No way. He's not a friend. What kind of friend goes after your wife?
> 
> And by the way, just the fact that you allowed continued contact makes you appear less attractive to your wife. She's more attracted to the predator. He takes what he wants. You need to stand up and defend your marriage in a strong, confident, firm way. Chicks dig that.


I'm sure you wanted to take the high road and show respect to your wife but Cubby right that there is no option here other than NC. Don't allow any more contact. And he's also right that anything short of that will make you undesirable.


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## carmen ohio

StickMan1 said:


> . . . *I'm determined to end this threatened feeling I get when there's interaction between them.* I want to trust her and since *she IS doing everything to prove to me that she's only into me*, I tried being the 'nice' guy and going back to the way things were. That's not working.


Dear SM1,

Unfortunately, you don't get it. Your WW isn't doing "everything to prove" that she's only into you because she's not only into you. She's been developing an intimate relationship with another man behind your back.

You say that what you want to accomplish is to "end the threatening feeling" you get when they "interact." Duh, you should want to end their interaction -- completely and forever. Instead, and incredibly, you have facilitated their relationship. You are acting like what is commonly known in the infidelity world as a "chump."

See this for what it is -- INFIDELITY. Maybe it's only in its early stages (although you don't know that for sure) but it's still cheating.

There's only one way to end this and that's to give your WW an ultimatum -- NC with the OM or you file for divorce. Any guff from her and you file immediately -- no begging, no arguing, you just file. See the many other threads on this site about what NC requires (NC letter, access to all her communications accounts, etc.).

If you do this, and if your WW hasn't already developed deep feelings for the OM, she will (after some period of complaining and pouting) probably come around and you can begin to rebuild your marriage (oh yes, it needs to be rebuilt because, right now, your married to a cheater).

If you don't, it will only get worse for you and more difficult with time to save your marriage. Check out some of the other threads on TAM to learn what happens to guys who don't call their WWs out in the early stages of an affair and, instead, allow them to rug sweep and eat cake.

Hoping you have the cojones to do what you need to do. Good luck.

P.S.: You seem to have been absent the day they explained "how to be a man." Not to worry, check out this site:

Blog | Married Man Sex Life


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## StickMan1

I greatly appreciate everyone's point of view - thank you!

I have through various threads here on and off for months. I have already learned a lot, and ya'll are adding to it.

The 'band guy' does have a wife. I have no idea if she knows or not. Since I am going NC, I'm assuming there's still value in letting her know of what happened 8 months ago, true?

Next steps for me appear to be:
- firmly set boundaries - being friendly and flirty with friends is fine, but this guy is no longer a friend
- NC - based on what I've read, I'm assuming this means I send him a NC for me and my wife does the same, true?

My wife does want to stay with me, I know this, I can tell, but she's definitely got the 'cake and eat it too' thing going on, even it's not still full-blown, they're dancing on the line for sure and I don't like it. 

Final question - the band is coming back in May to play here locally, that's 6 months from now. We have several mutual friends that in the past have always gone together to watch them play. Participating in this would not be an option, true? Probably a really stupid question, but with NC in place, it seems not too risky, but my gut is telling me otherwise.


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## carmen ohio

Yah, a really stupid question. Others will answer your other questions.


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## sigma1299

No contact is just that - as in he died and disappeared off the face of the earth. So, no going to see him play is most certainly a bad idea and not up for debate. 

If the OM has a wife tell her and do not tell him or your wife before you do. If you clue anyone in your wife and OM will get their stories straight and work together to make you look like an idiot.


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## Cubby

StickMan1 said:


> I greatly appreciate everyone's point of view - thank you!
> 
> I have through various threads here on and off for months. I have already learned a lot, and ya'll are adding to it.
> 
> The 'band guy' does have a wife. I have no idea if she knows or not. Since I am going NC, I'm assuming there's still value in letting her know of what happened 8 months ago, true?
> 
> Next steps for me appear to be:
> - firmly set boundaries - being friendly and flirty with friends is fine, but this guy is no longer a friend
> - NC - based on what I've read, I'm assuming this means I send him a NC for me and my wife does the same, true?
> 
> My wife does want to stay with me, I know this, I can tell, but she's definitely got the 'cake and eat it too' thing going on, even it's not still full-blown, they're dancing on the line for sure and I don't like it.
> 
> Final question - the band is coming back in May to play here locally, that's 6 months from now. We have several mutual friends that in the past have always gone together to watch them play. Participating in this would not be an option, true? Probably a really stupid question, but with NC in place, it seems not too risky, but my gut is telling me otherwise.


Number 1, you HAVE TO TELL HIS WIFE. How would you like it if she knew discovered the affair and didn't tell you? Two reasons for this: He will scramble to save his own marriage and if he's still in contact with your wife, the chances are greater that he'll drop your wife. Also it's the right and moral thing to do. She doesn't deserve to be in the dark on this. 

Yes, both of you send NC letters. Make sure you read hers and watch her send it. 

C'mon, Stickman your last question isn't serious is it? No contact means NO CONTACT.


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## Thundarr

StickMan1. I'd like to get more personal about something. We all want to feel like we make a difference in other's lives, especially as we get older and realize that there's more we could have done to help people. I'm a software development which pays the bills but it's not rewarding in the same way other jobs can be like teaching, etc.

When I see a story like yours where I think things can be fixed, I get overly tenacious about what we at TAM have seen over and over to stop this stuff in it's tracks because there is so much at stake. I think it's the same for some of the other posters as well.

What I'm REALLY want to stress is that when we say no contact and transparency are utmost importance, we are praying that you listen to us and that things work out for you. We have seen similar stories over and over but many of them have transpired further where they can't be fixed. Maybe yours can. 

Please don't take these suggestions as being cold or indifferent. Things always seem unique to us and I'm sure your situation seems very unique but from our end it looks like so many others following the same script.


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## Maricha75

That is correct. When he comes back to town, you don't go see him. NC means NC. That means forever.

Stickman, I gotta say, if she is truly wanting your marriage to work, she will have NO problem with giving this guy up, no matter what. My personality is a lot like your wife's, it seems. And when I recommitted to my husband, I went NC with even the male friends I had with whom I flirted. There was one in particular who, I knew, I would have gotten involved with, had I not gone NC with him. You are only requesting NC with this one man. Personally, I think flirting with other people has no place in a marriage, but that's JMO. It is too much trouble. Friendly, yes...flirting, no. What is more important? Keeping the marriage on track or flirting with others? My husband, who is not a flirt AT ALL, gave up ONE friend when I requested. This one friend was the OW... and theirs was a 3-4 week EA. I gave him the ultimatum of her or me. He chose me. He tried the "I guess I can't have friends" with me and I looked him in the eye and said "of course you can... just not THAT friend." He has female friends, I have male friends. The difference, now, is that we adhere to real boundaries.


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## Will_Kane

StickMan1 said:


> I greatly appreciate everyone's point of view - thank you!
> 
> I have through various threads here on and off for months. I have already learned a lot, and ya'll are adding to it.
> 
> The 'band guy' does have a wife. I have no idea if she knows or not. Since I am going NC, I'm assuming there's still value in letting her know of what happened 8 months ago, true?
> 
> Next steps for me appear to be:
> - firmly set boundaries - *being friendly and flirty with friends is fine*, but this guy is no longer a friend
> - NC - based on what I've read, I'm assuming this means I send him a NC for me and my wife does the same, true?
> 
> My wife does want to stay with me, I know this, I can tell, but she's definitely got the 'cake and eat it too' thing going on, *even it's not still full-blown, they're dancing on the line for sure* and I don't like it.
> 
> Final question - the band is coming back in May to play here locally, that's 6 months from now. We have several mutual friends that in the past have always gone together to watch them play. Participating in this would not be an option, true? Probably a really stupid question, but with NC in place, it seems not too risky, but my gut is telling me otherwise.


The things you've posted give us great pause that you've got a handle on the truth of this situation. It doesn't seem like you do. Your wife's story doesn't make sense as you've posted it, which means it's probably a lie.

She stated that she deleted texts SINCE THE AFFAIR WAS EXPOSED between her and other man because she was afraid you would take it out of context? Is that correct? LIke you are some kind of idiot who can't understand things "in context"? Is that what she told you? More likely, she knew all too well that you would understand perfectly what was going on when you read them, and it was them telling each other how to communicate without you knowing, otherwise known as "taking it underground."

In the original affair eight months ago, were you able to see the escalation from zero to I love you and how that progressed, exactly what was texted between the two of them? How much content did you get to see? Because my strong suspicion would be that they had a little bit of a flirtation, had some kind of connection that you didn't know about, well before the exchanges you discovered eight months ago. At the least, she must have been harboring these types of feelings for him and him for her, and they both either sensed it or outright had let it each other know about it earlier.

"I love you, You look so good" - This is a terrible sign. Have you checked her phone since then? If so, has this message been deleted? If not, check now, tell your wife you would like to check her texts, don't tell her why, just that you're curious about something and would like to look. See what her reaction is. Then see if the text is deleted.

Check the phone bill to see how often they've been in contact. I assume this text will show on the phone bill.

Tell your wife that you are having trouble trusting her and you would like her to help you. Tell her that if she is transparent with you, you think it will help re-gain your trust. Ask her to share all her passwords and communication devices with you and let her know you will share yours, too. You both should have access to each other's phones, emails, Facebooks, etc. What messages could either of you be posting that the other should not be able to see? Also, ask her to stop deleting texts and messages and tell her you likewise will not delete any. You should be able to check the phone bill and see if there are any texts deleted.

You think it's OK for your wife to be "flirty" with friends? I'm assuming you mean guy friends because she wouldn't bother being this way with girl friends?

Also, you think your wife is doing everything to show you that she wants to be with you and wants this to work? - except for the secret things she does that she doesn't tell you about, right? Like tell other man "I love you You look good"? Which you know about only because you happened to accidentally glance at her phone. Don't you think there probably are other things going on that you DIDN'T accidentally stumble across?

This doesn't seem too good to me. Do you really think every thing is going well? To me, it seems like you just can't read the signs. Wishful thinking?

To allow your wife to stay friends with other man and exchange messages with him that you are not part of? To even ask about taking your wife to see other man AFTER discovering her latest and greatest? Denial?


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## SomedayDig

Hey... Remember, you have that other thing you're doing in May when he comes back around.

Flirty wife syndrome isn't cool. Yeah, I know... She doesn't MEAN anything by it.

Unless it's the right person. My wife was the flirty girl... The independent woman and all. Yeah, I thought she was golden til I caught her in a five year long affair.

Squash that sh-t now, Bro. Like me, you gotta find out what the underlying need is. Luckily, we're working a lot of stuff out and she's done a ton of work to regain my trust. It's been 9 months and I still sometimes have trust issues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StickMan1

Will_Kane said:


> The things you've posted give us great pause that you've got a handle on the truth of this situation. It doesn't seem like you do. Your wife's story doesn't make sense as you've posted it, which means it's probably a lie.
> 
> She stated that she deleted texts SINCE THE AFFAIR WAS EXPOSED between her and other man because she was afraid you would take it out of context? Is that correct? LIke you are some kind of idiot who can't understand things "in context"? Is that what she told you? More likely, she knew all too well that you would understand perfectly what was going on when you read them, and it was them telling each other how to communicate without you knowing, otherwise known as "taking it underground."
> 
> In the original affair eight months ago, were you able to see the escalation from zero to I love you and how that progressed, exactly what was texted between the two of them? How much content did you get to see? Because my strong suspicion would be that they had a little bit of a flirtation, had some kind of connection that you didn't know about, well before the exchanges you discovered eight months ago. At the least, she must have been harboring these types of feelings for him and him for her, and they both either sensed it or outright had let it each other know about it earlier.
> 
> "I love you, You look so good" - This is a terrible sign. Have you checked her phone since then? If so, has this message been deleted? If not, check now, tell your wife you would like to check her texts, don't tell her why, just that you're curious about something and would like to look. See what her reaction is. Then see if the text is deleted.
> 
> Check the phone bill to see how often they've been in contact. I assume this text will show on the phone bill.
> 
> Tell your wife that you are having trouble trusting her and you would like her to help you. Tell her that if she is transparent with you, you think it will help re-gain your trust. Ask her to share all her passwords and communication devices with you and let her know you will share yours, too. You both should have access to each other's phones, emails, Facebooks, etc. What messages could either of you be posting that the other should not be able to see? Also, ask her to stop deleting texts and messages and tell her you likewise will not delete any. You should be able to check the phone bill and see if there are any texts deleted.
> 
> You think it's OK for your wife to be "flirty" with friends? I'm assuming you mean guy friends because she wouldn't bother being this way with girl friends?
> 
> Also, you think your wife is doing everything to show you that she wants to be with you and wants this to work? - except for the secret things she does that she doesn't tell you about, right? Like tell other man "I love you You look good"?
> 
> This doesn't seem too good to me. Do you really think every thing is going well? To me, it seems like you just can't read the signs. Wishful thinking?
> 
> To allow your wife to stay friends with other man and exchange messages with him that you are not part of? To even ask about taking your wife to see other man AFTER discovering her latest and greatest? Denial?



Definitely some denial, but the latest and greatest was the after we just saw him and there have been no further contact (again, i'm spying more than she knows, checked phone recs, phone, etc). 

That's been one of the tricky things about this, there can be weeks between contact, so it's not frequent, but it still exists. Not for long.

I will have the no contact conversation with my wife today. I will contact his wife ASAP as well.d
Wish me luck. Love the quote from a few posts back about 'you have to be willing to lose something if you want to keep it'. Pretty much says it all. Thanks again for your support. Oh and yeah, the 'you look good txt was deletee
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SomedayDig

Stick, my wife would go months without talking to the xOM. She was still banging him for five years.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Will_Kane

Good luck.


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## Pepper123

Let me tell you my story, which I am not proud of. 

I have been the AP in my past, and my story mirrors yours along many details. The friendship between them is crap and doesn't work. You need to insist on NC now, before you end up physically sharing your wife. Believe me... BTDT. I don't care how good she seems to you, she is doing you wrong emotionally. The first site of hard times again is all she needs to take it further. Fight for her.


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## StickMan1

Thanks! So when I bring this up today I know she's going to turn it on me and say 'after everything I've done you still don't trust me' and get super pissed.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SomedayDig

StickMan1 said:


> Thanks! So when I bring this up today I know she's going to turn it on me and say 'after everything I've done you still don't trust me' and get super pissed.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. Because it's in the script. You'd be amazed at how the collective conscience puts that script into the universe for waywards to use! Because somehow they ALL use it!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pepper123

StickMan1 said:


> Thanks! So when I bring this up today I know she's going to turn it on me and say 'after everything I've done you still don't trust me' and get super pissed.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ask her how she would feel about YOU texting another woman telling her that you love her -- after an EA had been discovered no less. 

You are kidding, right? Blameshifting... don't let her manipulate you. If she wanted to save her marriage she would do what it takes. Do you want to be part of a couple or a trio... Your call. 

In my case... we were "friends" a number of times, and each time we went back to sleeping together. Consider that. Does.Not.Work.


----------



## the guy

StickMan1 said:


> I greatly appreciate everyone's point of view - thank you!
> 
> I have through various threads here on and off for months. I have already learned a lot, and ya'll are adding to it.
> 
> The 'band guy' does have a wife. I have no idea if she knows or not. Since I am going NC, I'm assuming there's still value in letting her know of what happened 8 months ago, true?
> 
> Next steps for me appear to be:
> - firmly set boundaries - being friendly and flirty with friends is fine, but this guy is no longer a friend
> - NC - based on what I've read, I'm assuming this means I send him a NC for me and my wife does the same, true?
> 
> My wife does want to stay with me, I know this, I can tell, but she's definitely got the 'cake and eat it too' thing going on, even it's not still full-blown, they're dancing on the line for sure and I don't like it.
> 
> Final question - the band is coming back in May to play here locally, that's 6 months from now. We have several mutual friends that in the past have always gone together to watch them play. Participating in this would not be an option, true? Probably a really stupid question, but with NC in place, it seems not too risky, but my gut is telling me otherwise.


Its a shame she had these lack of boundries, now she, you and your friends have to suffer by *her* missing out on a good time. A consequences that must be faced to learn from her bad behavior by keeping her away form the band and the friends that are going. With out consequences bad behavior continues.

A NC letter is writen by *her* and it not an apoligy for breaking up with the "band guy" but a statement in what they did was wrong and both her and "band guy" behaved badly. The NC letter makes a statement that her husband is way better and why. The NC letter pushes the "band guy" away by not only telling him its wrong but you are better then him.
You read it and then both of you send it.

Exposing this band guy to his wife will help solidify that the A is over. I recommend you and your wife (again another consequence for bad behavior) contact her and ask for her support in both marriage by letting her know about the slippery slope the both of them have been on. Inform OM wife that your wife will respect both marriages and the only time they will contact her again is if they EA continues and you hope she will do the same. Kind of letting OMW know that both you and OMW keep an eye on things.


----------



## StickMan1

No I wasn't saying her being mad was a bad thing, I'll respond by asking how she'd feel if she were in my shoes, with me deleting things, etc. How long should I anticipate the pissed to wear off and have her be real? What's the next thing I can expect after the blameshifting/pissed wears off?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

If this goes deeper under ground and contact continues it will last for a very long time.

If she is truelly remorseful and understands the danger the marriage was in and excepts your command for respect and protection then she will pout for a day or two, but even then she may not be getting it. 

When she blamshift and continues to be pissed she isn't learning a damb thing.

when she owns her crap and has calmed down then she is getting it.


----------



## Thundarr

StickMan1 said:


> No I wasn't saying her being mad was a bad thing, I'll respond by asking how she'd feel if she were in my shoes, with me deleting things, etc. How long should I anticipate the pissed to wear off and have her be real? What's the next thing I can expect after the blameshifting/pissed wears off?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually the 180 and your NC and going dark with her should have begun as soon as the "pissed" was noticed.


----------



## the guy

You can own 50% of this fragile marriage, but she has to stop blaming you for having feeling for another man other then her husband. It was her own boundries or lack of that caused her EA.

A choice she made to emmotionaly connect with band guy instead of addressing the fragile marriage.


She needs to start affair proffing her own marriage instead of blaming you.


----------



## the guy

@ Thundarr, you make a very concerning point with regards to how remorsful OP's wife really is.


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## akashNil

The deleted text is extremely suggestive. This all is not so simple as it seems. It seems to already have gone too far - before you wore detective hat.


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## walkonmars

She will be mad. But you know what? Her respect for you will increase even if she doesn't admit it. Be firm. Don't make excuses. Don't say "my friends think that..." or "I'm sorry but....".


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## Will_Kane

StickMan1 said:


> No I wasn't saying her being mad was a bad thing, I'll respond by asking how she'd feel if she were in my shoes, with me deleting things, etc. How long should I anticipate the pissed to wear off and have her be real? What's the next thing I can expect after the blameshifting/pissed wears off?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It depends how "in love" with the guy she is, how much contact she's been having that you don't know about, and the current state of her relationship with him (even if it's all in her head).

You are sure she hasn't been in contact, but there are apps for the phone that allow you to text without it showing up on the call log and there are burner phones and there are a hundred ways to continue to communicate without being found out.

"You look good I love you" doesn't give any indication of whether communication has been ongoing or not. So you really don't know, although that one was on the phone you know about. It could be that was the only message, but having deleted other messages, doesn't make it look good.

Even if there has been not much communication, she might still be thinking that "someday" her and other man might find a way to be together, that she loves you but is not in love with you, and she is "in love" with the other man. If this is the case, you can expect her to fight like heck about ending contact - you can actually expect her to refuse to end contact and for her to choose her friendship with other man over you being too "controlling."

Since she still is friends with other man, and you know about it, you can expect her to fight like heck against exposing to other man's wife. At the very least, she still has feelings for other man, they were there before her hundreds of texts eight months ago and they're still there now, so she won't want to hurt other man by doing this to him. She will couch it in terms of "how could you hurt an innocent victim like other man's wife," as if other man's wife wouldn't want to know the truth about her marriage and her life and it's better not to tell her that her marriage has a cancer in it. She will not agree about exposing, no matter what.


----------



## StickMan1

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Will_Kane

Notice that nowhere in my previous reply was there any worry about how you feel, only for other man and other man's wife and its effects on your wife and her friendships within your group.

If she is not head over heels with other guy and really does love you, she will hear you out and discuss it and try to understand where you're coming from. She may not agree, but she won't go ballistic; she will agree to the no contact with other man, but not with exposing to his wife.


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## StickMan1

I don't think it's TOO bad, but mu gut tells me it's still there. The fog, that is, on and off again.

Should I tell his wife first or NC first? 

Thanks again for all your priceless guidance!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame

the guy said:


> when she owns her crap and has calmed down then she is getting it.


Keep in mind that she is busy having itchy, dreamy, sexy thoughts about her OM - maybe even more than thoughts.

She knows this. She has this in her head and she KNOWS it. When she denies things to you, she knows she is lying about her feelings. When she starts to really admit to herself & then to you that she's crossed a line, then she'll be starting to get it.

Never get defensive when she accuses you of not trusting or being controlling. Always remember what she's got going on in her thoughts to remind yourself that you have to be on guard for both of you and your marriage. If you 'trusted' her the way she wants you to, your marriage would be toast.


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## sigma1299

Probably his wife first as surprise is your ally in that. OM is in a band that the two of you have been fans of for a while right?

Assuming I am right in that then any recordings of that band or his music have to go away forever as part of NC. You don't want her riding around in her car months from now listening to him, imagining he's sending a message to her through the music, pining for him and keeping the affair alive in her heart. 

He has to go away as in he never existed.


----------



## the guy

Expose first, and don't tell your wife.

This tactic prevents Om and WW from doing the damage control and the exposeure is less effective. Secondly, exposing 1st will cause the OM to throw your wife under the bus, making your wife look like the aggressor in this EA to save his own marriage.

When this happens it will show your wife how much she really means to OM and the NC letter will have a real meaning in it rather then something you are making your wife do.


----------



## StickMan1

You all, and this forum, are invaluable.



_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Just make sure you don't start begging and crying for you marriage, chick dig confident men...OK?

Nothing pisses me off more then when guys make the same mistake I made and start apoligizing for being cheated on my their WW.


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## Will_Kane

StickMan1 said:


> I don't think it's TOO bad, but mu gut tells me it's still there. The fog, that is, on and off again.
> 
> Should I tell his wife first or NC first?
> 
> Thanks again for all your priceless guidance!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The predominant thought process on these threads is to tell the other man's wife first.

Also, not to tell your wife that you plan to tell his wife. If you tell your wife, then your wife warns other man, then other man warns his wife that you have a crazy unfounded notion, that you found some innocent texts that were flirty but just as your wife feared and warned other man, that you are a bit of an idiot and have taken the texts "out of context." In this case, then other man's wife may not even want to speak to you or hear you out, she will be in her own denial and wishful thinking. She may suspect something and believe you, but just as likely is she knows nothing and will go into denial.

Ultimately, I don't think the order matters all that much.

If you tell other man's wife first without telling your wife you will do so, and your wife has not established no contact with the other man, then you can expect other man to text your wife WTF? How come you're doing this now? You can also expect your wife to go super-ballistic nuclear explosion mad, maybe leave you for a few days over it.

None of us, including you, know exactly where your wife's head is right now.

If I were you, I would talk to you wife about having no contact with other man first. Establish the no contact, send the letter, wait a week. Do not mention anything to your wife about telling other man's wife about the affair, just the no contact with other man. Wait a week for no contact to begin. Then contact other man's wife and let her know what went on between her husband and your wife. Do not tell your wife you plan to do this, just do it. Tell other man's wife you think she has the right to know what happened and that you are not doing this to hurt her or the other man. Offer to let her see the texts that you do have and the call log showing how many times they texted.

Then you will see how well "no contact" works. If it works, your wife will not know you told other man's wife, then it is up to you as to whether or not you want to tell her about it.

When you tell other man's wife, stick to what you know. Just tell her the truth, she deserves to know the truth. If your wife goes ballistic, stick with that line and also that you are protecting your marriage due to her deleting texts and the "you look good I love you" comment.

As others have said, don't cry, plead or beg under any circumstance, remain confident that you did the right thing, but do not hesitate to tell your wife that you love her and you are doing all of this, from reconciling with her to telling other man's wife, to protect your marriage.


----------



## jnj express

Hey Stick---look, its like this, you are protecting the sanctity of your mge-------ask your wife the definition of mge----she will find it DOES NOT, include her saying Love You, Kiss you, and Flirting with other men

When you TELL, your wife, and I mean TELL, your wife, the boundaries that are to be put in place----YOU DO NOT ALLOW HER TO ARGUE, DISCUSS, GET MAD, OR ANYTHING ELSE---you tell her, and YOU LEAVE, you go dark on her, you go dark on her for a couple of days if necessary---YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE SHE KNOWS/UNDERSTANDS, you will not tolerate any more of this crap, FOR ONE MORE MINUTE, and going no contact with her will get THAT POINT ACROSS VERY CLEARLY, maybe arrange to sleep at a friends house the night you give her your boundaries------MAKE HER UNDERSTAND YOU ARE Pis*ed.

If you scare her into believing you might pull the plug on her, fine----SHE NEEDS A F'ING SHAKING UP---she is F'ing skating on you, and you are ALLOWING it.

Married women do not flirt, they do not talk about kissing other men, and they do not tell them they love them under any context---and UNTIL YOUR WIFE LEARNS THAT----You, have a major problem

It just takes one little flirtation on one little occassion for a ONS, to happen, that was not meant to be---and your life changes forever----YOUR WIFE MUST BE OF THE MINDSET, THAT SHE IS MARRIED, AND ACT ACCORDINGLY AT ALL TIMES.


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## StickMan1

So, I just had the NC conversation, and here's how it went...

We discussed where we're at, and where we're going. I said that something has to change, because what we're doing isn't working. She asked what needed to change, and I said we can both no longer be friends with him. She got up and went in the bathroom at this point. She came back and said, "So what you're saying is I chose between being friends with him or staying married to you?" I said, "Yes", very matter of factly. She got pissed at this point and said something like "Why can't you just get over it. I'm not going to not be friends with him forever!" I just repeated, "We need to protect our marriage, and because of what happened, this needs to happen. We can either continue to have issues like we are and slowly crumble, or we can end all of this misery between us now and cut him out of our circle." She responded with "You better get a good lawyer". I said, "Ok". Then it switched again to "I can't believe you're doing this to me". My response, "This is all rooted in the choice you made 8 months ago. No matter how big or small, you crossed a line that married people do not cross. I cannot and will not live my marriage like this"

At this point she got out of the car because I was dropping her off for her to go out with her girlfriend for dinner.

I think I did pretty well! I did it all very matter-of-factly, with assertiveness. No tears, so I'm sorrys, nothing. 

I think she's planning on going out drinking with her friend after dinner. 

Should I demand she come home so we can continue our conversation? Or, should I give her her space and continue it when she gets home? She will likely be drinking... thoughts?


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## walkonmars

You did very well indeed. You said the right things with the right attitude.
What's her gf like? Single, divorced, in a solid commited relationship?

She WILL discuss this with her gf. You will get help if the gf is in a solid marriage. But there's going to be trouble if the gf is divorced.

If she comes back wanting to argue, don't get drawn in. Just listen carefully and then tell her you are not changing your position. Not one bit. Keep repeating it as long as you need to.

Let her sleep on it.


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## the guy

Pack her things up and when and if she comes home tell her her absents was considered abandonment and you acted as such.

Pack her things up, she already called your bluff with the "get a good lawyer" statement.


I am truely sorry you have lost your wife and best friend this way. I only hope that she sees that being her doormat is not an option and submitts to the protect you offer.

Th emotional torture is just not worth it my brother...she is either in or she is out.

You don't have to share your wife if you don't want to.


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## joe kidd

Haven't read this whole thread but......... If that was one of my "friends" I would tell him it stops, no contact at all or my foot gets planted up his a$$.


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## sigma1299

You did good but don't give her long to think about it. She's likely going to act like that conversation never happened, to see if she ignores you if you will drop it. If she doesn't come forward pretty quick start moving forward on your own. Don't ask her for her decision - actions speak here not words. 

IMO the fact that she left to go out after a conversation like that speaks volumes and what it says isn't good. We're it me and Monday came and she wasn't all in to NC I'd take her up on her dare and go get that attorney. Nothing shows you mean business like seeing he words "Divorce Decree" in black and white. Remember seeing an attorney or even filing are not actually getting divorce, if she comes around all it cost you was a little cash. If she doesn't you're ahead of the game.


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## AlphaHalf

Don't fold with NC of other man. You see how she chose to end her marriage to remain in contact with him. She said she cant believe your doing this to her, tell her you can't believe her as a WIFE can't see how flirting, texting, and hiding intimate contact with another man is not wrong.


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## the guy

In addition she will not like the new StickMan1.... the old StickMan1 would have let her walk all over you nad excepted the fact that you would be a cuckold. 

It will be hard and it will take strenght, but the ones we love have to respect us...its when we stop respecting our selves and they stop respecting us.... that when we loss them.


No matter how much you want the sweet piece of @ss you have to command respect for them to respect you! Life is to short to be walked on just to have a trophy wife that knows how to phuck us.

I know I have gone a 13 year road of hell getting my penis sucked just so my wife can go off and sleep around....brother its just not worth it. In hind sight, I would rather have a loyal wife then one that gave me tricks just so I would lay off her as she slept around.


Any way thats a different story, learn from my mistakes and stand up now before its to late.


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## Acabado

You don't demand a thing. You tell what your boundaires are, what you will tolerate from now on. She's more than free to choose. If she ask with a little calm you tell her you realized you have been being a fool with no self respect and you, from today on have chosen self respect and respecting your marriage, she can join or not, her call.

BTW, she went to the barthroom to call him immediately, they are already planing the underground methods and likely conocting stories for BW. She just realized your balls growing at plain sight and feared exposure. She did try the bully, treatening tactic. Don't back off, ever. She may play not the "accepting" as a huge sacrifice with some trade off. Be ready to snoop further, keylogger, phone bills, VARs...

She wouldn't be friends with you OW (just playing the reversing the roles game). That's a garantee.


----------



## the guy

And by the way, this isn't a power struggle between the two of you. Its about boundries and even if she gets the best lawyer in town and takes you for everything *YOU WILL NOT SHARE YOUR WIFE*...........

Again in its most simplest from, its all about boundries and respect. So her defensive nature only verifies my tough love approach I preach.

" you are making her fantasy inconvienent" of course she is pissed!


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## sigma1299

Remember what I said in my first post in this thread. The harder she fights you the more right you know you are.


----------



## Will_Kane

StickMan1 said:


> So, I just had the NC conversation, and here's how it went...
> 
> We discussed where we're at, and where we're going. I said that something has to change, because what we're doing isn't working. She asked what needed to change, and I said we can both no longer be friends with him. *She got up and went in the bathroom at this point.* She came back and said, "So what you're saying is I chose between being friends with him or staying married to you?" I said, "Yes", very matter of factly. She got pissed at this point and said something like "Why can't you just get over it. I'm not going to not be friends with him forever!" I just repeated, "We need to protect our marriage, and because of what happened, this needs to happen. We can either continue to have issues like we are and slowly crumble, or we can end all of this misery between us now and cut him out of our circle." She responded with "You better get a good lawyer". I said, "Ok". Then it switched again to "I can't believe you're doing this to me". My response, "This is all rooted in the choice you made 8 months ago. No matter how big or small, you crossed a line that married people do not cross. I cannot and will not live my marriage like this"
> 
> *At this point she got out of the car because I was dropping her off for her to go out with her girlfriend for dinner.*
> 
> I think I did pretty well! I did it all very matter-of-factly, with assertiveness. No tears, so I'm sorrys, nothing.
> 
> I think she's planning on going out drinking with her friend after dinner.
> 
> Should I demand she come home so we can continue our conversation? Or, should I give her her space and continue it when she gets home? She will likely be drinking... thoughts?


How long did this conversation last?

She went to the bathroom? Did she take her phone?

Then the conversation ended because you were in the car and she had to get out to go to dinner?

Don't call her or ask her to end her night out if she had it planned in advance.

Saturday night out drinking with her girlfriend? Where do they go to do their drinking? It sounds like a single lifestyle.

Stick to your guns about the no contact. Don't bring it up tonight and don't argue with her if she's been drinking. If she brings it up tonight after drinking, tell her you are sticking to your guns and she can talk to you about it tomorrow.

She's definitely carrying a torch for this guy. At the least.

You say they sometimes go months without contact? If that is truly so, it doesn't sound so hard to give up.

She didn't seem very understanding about how you feel. Your feelings are genuine. She wants you to just get over it.

You posted that she's been doing everything to make it up to you, but you never said what that "everything" is. From your posts, it doesn't seem like she's done that much or is that sympathetic to you.


----------



## the guy

@ Acabado, I missed that. 

there is so much to the script when it come to cheating I forget about things.....did any one mention exposure?


It may be to late but if it was me I would contact OMW ASAP.


Dude reread you thread this just went south with her "get a lawyer " statement....you would have been ok if she dropped to her knees and begged for forgiveness, instead she played hard ball.

Nuke this thing and expose, cut her off, and do the 180.


----------



## the guy

chick is deep in the fog.....

I mean how much does this chick think she is going to get from a married, traveling rock star?????


----------



## alte Dame

the guy said:


> chick is deep in the fog.....
> 
> I mean how much does this chick think she is going to get from a married, traveling rock star?????


Yeah, it seems like when the chemicals take over, the IQ goes out the window.


----------



## Cubby

Stickman, you did well. I'm especially impressed that you kept calm, stayed in control. Make sure, no matter what she does or says, you don't turn into a frantic, raving lunatic. Be a solid rock who has no fear of the future no matter what you're feeling inside. 

Wow, her reaction speaks volumes. Now you're getting a clearer picture. Is dinner going to simply be dinner? Or will there be alcohol and dancing involved? Amazing that she's okay with leaving you for the evening after a huge discussion like that.


----------



## Will_Kane

StickMan1 said:


> She asked what needed to change, and I said we can both no longer be friends with him. She got up and went in the bathroom at this point. She came back and said, *"So what you're saying is I chose between being friends with him or staying married to you?" *I said, "Yes", very matter of factly. She got pissed at this point and said something like *"Why can't you just get over it. I'm not going to not be friends with him forever!"* I just repeated, "We need to protect our marriage, and because of what happened, this needs to happen. We can either continue to have issues like we are and slowly crumble, or we can end all of this misery between us now and cut him out of our circle." She responded with *"You better get a good lawyer". *I said, "Ok". Then it switched again to *"I can't believe you're doing this to me".* My response, "This is all rooted in the choice you made 8 months ago. No matter how big or small, you crossed a line that married people do not cross. I cannot and will not live my marriage like this"


This did not go well in the sense that it is not how a cheater who was "over" the other man from eight months ago would act. Then again, you knew that because you just saw a text that said "You look good I love you."

Her question, "So what you're saying is I chose between being friends with him or staying married to you?" is a natural reaction to what you just told her.

When you told her "yes," I would expect her next reply to be "of course I am going to choose you if I have to, but I really don't think there is any reason to end the friendship with him, he means nothing to me now, and it will be embarrassing to me in front of our group."

The fact that she immediately brought up "why you can't just get over it," her saying she will not end their friendship forever, divorce, you better get a good lawyer, is not a natural reaction from someone who is emotionally out of the affair, especially after you pointed that out that it was her affair that made you feel this way about her friendship with other man.


----------



## Thundarr

jnj express said:


> Hey Stick---look, its like this, you are protecting the sanctity of your mge-------ask your wife the definition of mge----she will find it DOES NOT, include her saying Love You, Kiss you, and Flirting with other men
> 
> When you TELL, your wife, and I mean TELL, your wife, the boundaries that are to be put in place----YOU DO NOT ALLOW HER TO ARGUE, DISCUSS, GET MAD, OR ANYTHING ELSE---you tell her, and YOU LEAVE, you go dark on her, you go dark on her for a couple of days if necessary---YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE SHE KNOWS/UNDERSTANDS, you will not tolerate any more of this crap, FOR ONE MORE MINUTE, and going no contact with her will get THAT POINT ACROSS VERY CLEARLY, maybe arrange to sleep at a friends house the night you give her your boundaries------MAKE HER UNDERSTAND YOU ARE Pis*ed.
> 
> If you scare her into believing you might pull the plug on her, fine----SHE NEEDS A F'ING SHAKING UP---she is F'ing skating on you, and you are ALLOWING it.
> 
> Married women do not flirt, they do not talk about kissing other men, and they do not tell them they love them under any context---and UNTIL YOUR WIFE LEARNS THAT----You, have a major problem
> 
> It just takes one little flirtation on one little occassion for a ONS, to happen, that was not meant to be---and your life changes forever----YOUR WIFE MUST BE OF THE MINDSET, THAT SHE IS MARRIED, AND ACT ACCORDINGLY AT ALL TIMES.


Everything in this comment is right on. Protect the marriage, there's no room for flirting, arguing, anger. This is crap and she needs to know it's not an option, she is married and has to act like it.


----------



## Thundarr

StickMan1 said:


> So, I just had the NC conversation, and here's how it went...
> 
> We discussed where we're at, and where we're going. I said that something has to change, because what we're doing isn't working. She asked what needed to change, and I said we can both no longer be friends with him. She got up and went in the bathroom at this point. She came back and said, "So what you're saying is I chose between being friends with him or staying married to you?" I said, "Yes", very matter of factly. She got pissed at this point and said something like "Why can't you just get over it.


The time for talk has officially passed my friend. You do absolutely need to go dark and file papers. Again, this doesn't mean you have to go through the process it just means you have to unless she changes which she's not going to do without you going dark.


----------



## Thundarr

Acabado said:


> *You don't demand a thing. You tell what your boundaires are, what you will tolerate from now on. She's more than free to choose.* If she ask with a little calm you tell her you realized you have been being a fool with no self respect and you, from today on have chosen self respect and respecting your marriage, she can join or not, her call.
> 
> *BTW, she went to the barthroom to call him immediately,* they are already planing the underground methods and likely conocting stories for BW. She just realized your balls growing at plain sight and feared exposure. She did try the bully, treatening tactic. Don't back off, ever. She may play not the "accepting" as a huge sacrifice with some trade off. Be ready to snoop further, keylogger, phone bills, VARs...
> 
> She wouldn't be friends with you OW (just playing the reversing the roles game). That's a garantee.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Will_Kane

Stick, you've posted that your wife is very flirty, says I love you to all of her friends, now we find out that she goes out drinking with her girlfriend on a Saturday night. We're a little jaded in this regard on this forum, flirty wives who have gone from zero to I love you in the past, don't have a good track record of going out for a girls' night out of drinking and also remaining faithful to their husband from what we've seen here.


----------



## StickMan1

Will_Kane said:


> Stick, you've posted that your wife is very flirty, says I love you to all of her friends, now we find out that she goes out drinking with her girlfriend on a Saturday night. We're a little jaded in this regard on this forum, flirty wives who have gone from zero to I love you in the past, don't have a good track record of going out for a girls' night out of drinking and also remaining faithful to their husband from what we've seen here.


I am kind of torn in this respect, though this night was preplanned 'girls night at the movies'. While I do not trust her w the OM, I am certain she wouldn't go off the deep end w some other random dude. She got the message loud and clear before I left her tonight, right now she's testing how serious I am about this and waiting for me to txt her and ask her where she is. I won't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Maricha75

StickMan1 said:


> I am kind of torn in this respect, though this night was preplanned 'girls night at the movies'. *While I do not trust her w the OM, I am certain she wouldn't go off the deep end w some other random dude. *She got the message loud and clear before I left her tonight, right now she's testing how serious I am about this and waiting for me to txt her and ask her where she is. I won't.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My husband thought that, too. The thing is, if she continues with the behavior, it's just easier for it to happen again. The only thing is she will learn how to keep it hidden better. I speak from experience. You did good, though. Stand firm and don't waver.


----------



## StickMan1

I feel so empowered from all of this it's unreal. For the first time in months I feel like the one in control. I cannot thank you enough for the guidance and support. I!m not the person who gets f'in walked on, nor will I be anymore!!

I will keep this thread open and post updates as things progress. I pray my story can give the same support and guidance to someone else it did me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

Do they have a data plan ? They might chat apps and the messages won't show on the phone plan. 

Tell her you cannot trust her. Especially after what all happened


----------



## Chaparral

warlock07 said:


> Do they have a data plan ? They might chat apps and the messages won't show on the phone plan.
> 
> Tell her you cannot trust her. Especially after what all happened


And the clincher, if its her "friend" or divorce , she picked divorce and to go to the movies.


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## warlock07

Not to make you paranoid but there are million ways they could have taken the affair underground. 

But it could also be that it is an ego thing(How can he tell me who to talk to ?)

What phone does she have ?


----------



## the guy

StickMan1 said:


> I feel so empowered from all of this it's unreal. For the first time in months I feel like the one in control. I cannot thank you enough for the guidance and support. I!m not the person who gets f'in walked on, nor will I be anymore!!
> 
> I will keep this thread open and post updates as things progress. I pray my story can give the same support and guidance to someone else it did me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just remember stay calm but firm. Always remember you can't control your wife and be confident that you shouldn;t have to cuz there a plenty of women that will respect you and the relationship you diserve.

In short she can choose to be married to you or she can choose to be single...either way you have the confidence to move on with or with out her.

With a smile on your face show her you can and will have a healthy relationship with or with out her...it will always be her choice to except your boundries or not.


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## Shaggy

You need to contact the OMW and tell her of the affair. See from the texts I think they went physical at least once. Their texts are about hypothetical I want you's. They are I miss you, meaning they've hooked up,

I think you have been played all these months. She's been nice to you to throw you off, while she's had an alternate communication path like a burner phone.

Why is this guy still in your life! This dude make a full court press on your wife. He may very well have slept with her. If her didn't it wasn't only for lack of Opportunity.

And you still go out and smile ,shake his hand and have dinner with him? Seriously? That really puts him in the alpha dog spot, when a betrayed spouse still calls you buddy and hangs with you.

Just now you are seeing that your wife values him at a distance more than you every day. 

Just wow. Post the OM on cheaterville.com and call his wife and disclose the texts.


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## The Cro-Magnon

Gird your loins OP, because she will spend the entire "girl's night out" with her enabling female friend convincing herself that you are wrong, she is right, you are controlling, and how it is only RIGHT that she choose him over you etc etc. 

And when she comes home she will be in a towering state of self-righteousness (despite how insane and illogical it is) and will come for you with all guns blazing, trying to flip you on your back and make it all your fault.

Seriously, prepare yourself, and bolster your state of mind so that she doesn't roll over you. Stand strong, you have been WRONGED, do not back down.

In short:
An angry 400lb Gorilla is going to storm through your front door later tonight and come straight for you. I hope you're ready for that.


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## Chaparral

If you are not babysitting, you should leave and spend the night somewhere else. Let her wonder what you are doing for a change.

If you are babysitting maybe the kids would like to spend the night at a nice motel/hotel and do some indoor swiming.


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## AlphaHalf

Don't let her use sex as a way soften your view on this issue.


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## StickMan1

All very good points. Interestingly enough she came home before I did. I knew what to expect and I may still get it once I go to bed. I'm fine. Head in right place. She can say anything at this point and it wont phase me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

StickMan1 said:


> Married 15 years - most outsiders would consider our marriage a good marriage, we're both very open, good to each other, publicly affectionate, still hold hands, etc.
> 
> Earlier this year, we started to disconnect a bit. Our nightly routine consisted of watching separate TVs, going to bed at different times, etc. During this time, a very hard financial situation came up, putting both my wife and I in a stressed out place. That's when 'it' happened...
> 
> In April this year, a male mutual of my wife and I, who plays in a band and lives 3 states away, text messaged a bunch of us to let us know when the band would be coming to town again.
> 
> Initiated by that one simple text, within a week, the OM and my wife texting each other things like 'Wanna come over? ', 'I want you', 'I want to kiss you', 'I can't stop thinking about you', etc. The discovery of this came when the OM accidentally texted me instead of my wife - the text read... 'I REALLY want you... I LOVE talking to you. We both have so much at stake'. Upon receiving this msg I immediately checked the phone records, there were around 200 texts exchanged between the two of them in this one week.
> 
> My world imploded. We fought through the pain, agreed that it was an 'eye-opener' for the both of us, she was extremely apologetic, we bought new wedding rings to symbolize our renewed marriage. By summer, things were healing, we were doing good.
> 
> My mistake: rather than asking for no-contact w/ the OM, I tried to make it work by letting him know I didn't approve of what happened and I wanted their contact to be limited. They both agreed and swore it would never happen again. I've closely monitored the situation over the past 8 months - while I haven't seen things like what were originally said, I'd see random things like 'I miss you', 'can't wait to see you again', etc. I routinely check phone records and the volume of texts between the two is not what it was when the A happened, and they can go weeks without contact.
> 
> Last week the OM came to town and a bunch of us went out for dinner with him. When he left to catch his flight, he texted all of us 'Thanks... love ya'll'. My wife's response was (I saw it on her phone, but she didn't know this), 'I love you', 'You look so good '.
> 
> That was it for me. On the hour drive home we discussed our 'friendship' with him, and she fell apart. She said things like 'I've done everything to show my love for you and you still don't trust me'. She has been WONDERFUL to me in all respects, but I can't do this anymore. She feels betrayed because she says that's just her personality (she is a very friendly, flirty person) and she's not doing anything wrong or crossing the line.
> 
> Where do I go from here? I feel torn between getting rid of this threat I feel from the OM and the remaining lack of trust my wife and I have, but at the same time I do like the OM as a friend, but I think they're just asking for more trouble.
> 
> Thank you in advance!


Yes, you should have had total NC. Knowing about it and essentially letting it go without consequnece enabled it. 

But you know. There is a lot missing from this. Why does she love this guy. There is more history to this. There is an affair here somewhere.

I have not read the rest of the thread yet.

But you wish to end the sick feeling by trusting your wife with a guy who would bang your wife. 

Wow. You must be into the hotwife lifestyle to make that choice.


----------



## Entropy3000

StickMan1 said:


> Point taken Cubby! I was wondering the same thing. Here's how things were rationalized....
> 
> It was 'short-term', it didn't really go THAT far (though it did go over the line), he's a 'friend' of a bunch of us that live in the same town as us, it'll NEVER happen again, and on and on...
> 
> So since bringing up no contact, my wife now feels betrayed because of how she's put everything into repairing us. Thus me saying no contact that implies that I don't trust her when she hasn't done anything wrong since the initial incident. She says what happened wasn't 'that big of a deal' and that she's blocked any silly feelings toward him out of her head and she's 100% focused on me. By the way she treats me, this would be very true.
> 
> I'm determined to end this threatened feeling I get when there's interaction between them. I want to trust her and since she IS doing everything to prove to me that she's only into me, I tried being the 'nice' guy and going back to the way things were. That's not working.


She is using cheater speak. You should not trust her. She has broken your trust. She vowed to foresake others for you and she betrayed that by professing her love for another man. Duh!? There is more to this.

I would have kicked his @$$ on general principle. Seriously not joke. He tried to bang your wife. He is no friend.

I mean what if he only banged her once? That was a short time. If anything the escalated time makes it worse, but there is more here. They have been intimate at one time or another before. She basically told another man she will cheat on you to have him.

THAT should bother the heck out of you.


----------



## StickMan1

The affair was with the heart. He lives 4 states away and has never been alone w him. He's a mutual friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

StickMan1 said:


> The affair was with the heart. He lives 4 states away and has never been alone w him. He's a mutual friend.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That makes no sense my friend. There is more to the story than this. 

Challenge flag. :redcard:

But lets assume for the sake of argument there is not. That makes it all the worse. 

Without them being EX lovers this friend of yours is seducing your wife. He wants to bang her. Are you ok with this? You would leave this man alone with your wife? Would you be ok with her travelling to see him? Or you are ok as long as you can watch them?

Then there is the fact that your wife wants to bang him. She loves him. She is in at least an EA with him.

Why would you be ok with this?

You do understand the brain chemicals here? The fact that without going NC, without her going through withdrawal, without you asserting yourself as her husband she is going to continue to bond with him and lose attraction for you.

Even if they never hookup this will destroy your marriage. But understand that EAs in general are more about bonding as friends. Only in the advanced stages does it get romantic. And in fact this is both romantic and sexual now. So whatever the history this is now very intense.

I need to read the other posts. You comments I have read so far have been supportive of the affair and sound like someone into the hotwife stuff. If not that you want to for some reason dfend your wife and rationalize the decision to be less than assertive.


----------



## Entropy3000

StickMan1 said:


> I greatly appreciate everyone's point of view - thank you!
> 
> I have through various threads here on and off for months. I have already learned a lot, and ya'll are adding to it.
> 
> The 'band guy' does have a wife. I have no idea if she knows or not. Since I am going NC, I'm assuming there's still value in letting her know of what happened 8 months ago, true?
> 
> Next steps for me appear to be:
> - firmly set boundaries - being friendly and flirty with friends is fine, but this guy is no longer a friend
> - NC - based on what I've read, I'm assuming this means I send him a NC for me and my wife does the same, true?
> 
> My wife does want to stay with me, I know this, I can tell, but she's definitely got the 'cake and eat it too' thing going on, even it's not still full-blown, they're dancing on the line for sure and I don't like it.
> 
> Final question - the band is coming back in May to play here locally, that's 6 months from now. We have several mutual friends that in the past have always gone together to watch them play. Participating in this would not be an option, true? Probably a really stupid question, but with NC in place, it seems not too risky, but my gut is telling me otherwise.


Catching up slowly. Sorry. 

NC is NC. That means no seeing the band.


----------



## Entropy3000

StickMan1 said:


> Thanks! So when I bring this up today I know she's going to turn it on me and say 'after everything I've done you still don't trust me' and get super pissed.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So what?


----------



## StickMan1

No worries Entropy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

StickMan1 said:


> So, I just had the NC conversation, and here's how it went...
> 
> We discussed where we're at, and where we're going. I said that something has to change, because what we're doing isn't working. She asked what needed to change, and I said we can both no longer be friends with him. She got up and went in the bathroom at this point. She came back and said, "So what you're saying is I chose between being friends with him or staying married to you?" I said, "Yes", very matter of factly. She got pissed at this point and said something like "Why can't you just get over it. I'm not going to not be friends with him forever!" I just repeated, "We need to protect our marriage, and because of what happened, this needs to happen. We can either continue to have issues like we are and slowly crumble, or we can end all of this misery between us now and cut him out of our circle." She responded with "You better get a good lawyer". I said, "Ok". Then it switched again to "I can't believe you're doing this to me". My response, "This is all rooted in the choice you made 8 months ago. No matter how big or small, you crossed a line that married people do not cross. I cannot and will not live my marriage like this"
> 
> At this point she got out of the car because I was dropping her off for her to go out with her girlfriend for dinner.
> 
> I think I did pretty well! I did it all very matter-of-factly, with assertiveness. No tears, so I'm sorrys, nothing.
> 
> I think she's planning on going out drinking with her friend after dinner.
> 
> Should I demand she come home so we can continue our conversation? Or, should I give her her space and continue it when she gets home? She will likely be drinking... thoughts?


Good for you.

Me thinks she protests too much. I was in an EA. My wife called me on it. I thought I was just very close friends with a woman. But I listend to my wife. I ended up quitting my job to go NC. It was a very significant job I might add. 

But her reacting this way is very very telling. Why would she act this way over some guy in a freaking band who lived four states away? 

Sorry there is more to this.


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## jnj express

He is a friend no more---and she must/will learn, that if he is to stay in this mge with you---SHE WILL FOLLOW A MARRIED SCRIPT, not the script of a married woman, who wants to be single on the side-----married women do NOT, have contact with single men that end with flirting/kissing/loving comments---IF THEY HAVE TO TALK TO MEN, IT IS ABOUT BUSINESS, IT IS SHORT AND SWEET, AND DONE, WITH NO OTHER COMMENTS NECESSARY, AFTER BUSINESS IS FINISHED.


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## Entropy3000

Sorry man for taking so long to catch up. 

I think you have done very well. You are doing this to save your marriage. This is the right thing to do. A tough love sitution.

Her reaction to your doing this is still very disturbing.
She is protesting way too much and the comment about getting over it ... screams entitlement. She should feel bad abou the whole thing and willing to go the extra mile. 

It does seem like there is more to this. You have really rained on her parade. You just do not know what that parade is about. Look, she messed up. She is the reason for needing the NC. BUT I hasten to add that even if she shut the OM down that his even attempting to seduce her means NC is appropriate anyway. So he is the bad guy ... too.
You are the only good guy in this. Tell her that. tell her she not only broke your trust but this friend betrayed you as well adn you will not stand for that.

Be aware the only thing weaker and more enabling than not making a stand at all is backing off from that stand. You cannot back off form it and there is no compromise. No Half measure. But again they caused this not you.

Soory you are going through this but you know you can only do soe much. It takes two to make a marriage work but right now you are doing what is needed to save this marriage.

Why would a woman throw away her marriage over some guy who lives 4 states away you guys only occasionally see? Amazing. I suspectlike others have suggested that there are means of contact you do not know about. What she is was doing is less about flirting and more like sexting and planning to cheat. She was past inappropriate. Sje has been unfaithful. So tell her that.

Also when trust comes up again, tell her she needs to trust you in this. Turn it around. Why can she not trust you. Why can she not get over it?


----------



## Malaise

Stickman

Did you expose to his wife yet?

If not, when?

You really should do this asap. As they said, she likely called him from the bathroom. 

This is an ongoing affair and you need the help of OMW to blow it up.

Don't discount the power and value of exposure. Too many don't expose at all or do it too late.

Do it now.


----------



## SomedayDig

LoveDr. said:


> "Cheating" is doing anything that you wouldn't do in the presence of your spouse. Your wife of 15 years either doesn't understand this or doesn't care. In your situation if I decided not to divorce I would at least give her a taste of her own medicine. Assuming that you aren't the best at attracting women, heres a site that can really help you with that with little or no effort at all.
> Ultimate Swagg


Seriously? A f'ng commercial?? We have a guy here who is fighting for his marriage and you're trying to sell him a stupid f'ng internet bullsnot scam to pick up broads?!!! GTFO


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## AlphaHalf

> The affair was with the heart. He lives 4 states away and has never been alone w him. He's a mutual friend.


One thing you should get straight. Friends don't have EA's with each other wives. He is an enemy to YOU, and your marriage. The only mutual relationship is the EA he is having with your wife in front of your face. F#$k this guy, He most likely views your wife as another groupie, And IF you didn't find out about the EA, he would've had sex with your wife already.
Never be friends or compromise with someone who is trying to steal from you. (wife, money, respect or anything that is yours)


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## StickMan1

Here's the current status of where things are at...

We had the NC conversation last night, she blew up, blameshifted, defended the friendship, said she'd resent me for 'forcing' her not to be friends with him, etc. We were away from each other the rest of the night and haven't had any communication w/ each other since.

Today she's going to be at work all day. Tomorrow we're expecting group texts from the OM to a bunch of us regarding a show they're playing in our town in May. I know these texts are coming, tomorrow. I want the NC in place before that but we can't resolve it today because she's going to be gone all day. Do I pressure her at this point? Do I 'go dark' until she owns up? If I 'go dark', it could take her a day or two to come around because of the way she reacted in the NC conversation. I don't have a couple days. Suggestions welcome!


----------



## sigma1299

Don't pressure her. You can't control her, all you can do is express to her what your reaction will be to a given set of actions by her and them do what you say. 

As others have said, she's in deep man and she isn't going to give it up easy. Have you read up on the 180? Time to show her that you won't tolerate a third person in your marriage. Time to tell the OMW. Hide and watch. If you tell OMW your wife will go batsh!t crazy on you. Promise. Why do you think that is? It's because you will have just seriously fvcked up her relationship with her boyfriend.


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## Chaparral

Get a message to his wife that you and your wife do not want to be invited and he is never to contact you or your wife again. He knows why and if he doesn't tell you, call me back and I will give you the full story including the inapropriate texts he has been sending.


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## StickMan1

I'm thinking of sending him a quick message to exclude my wife and I from the group text tomorrow. There will be full-blown NC messages to him at some point, but as of right now, she hasn't fully come around. I'm thinking a the quick message may tip him off to what's coming though, but I guess that doesn't really matter. Hmm...


----------



## Chaparral

It sounds like you are not going to tell his wife. That is an epic mistake. You aren't jumping on this with both feet. If you fiddle around and show weakness all will be lost. Right now nothing has progressed. They were probaly in contact last night. Is the friend she was with last night also a friend of his?

Just in case this hasn't jelled in your brain yet, your friend has made you his ***** too.


----------



## Thundarr

StickMan1 said:


> Here's the current status of where things are at...
> 
> We had the NC conversation last night, she blew up, blameshifted, defended the friendship, said she'd resent me for 'forcing' her not to be friends with him, etc. We were away from each other the rest of the night and haven't had any communication w/ each other since.
> 
> Today she's going to be at work all day. Tomorrow we're expecting group texts from the OM to a bunch of us regarding a show they're playing in our town in May. I know these texts are coming, tomorrow. I want the NC in place before that but we can't resolve it today because she's going to be gone all day. Do I pressure her at this point? Do I 'go dark' until she owns up? If I 'go dark', it could take her a day or two to come around because of the way she reacted in the NC conversation. I don't have a couple days. Suggestions welcome!


I think it's time to expose this to OM's wife and if possible expose to friends in the group that are married. He is a predator after all. Just because you can't force her to go NC, you can and should force exposure.


----------



## Thundarr

StickMan1 said:


> I'm thinking of sending him a quick message to exclude my wife and I from the group text tomorrow. There will be full-blown NC messages to him at some point, but as of right now, she hasn't fully come around. I'm thinking a the quick message may tip him off to what's coming though, but I guess that doesn't really matter. Hmm...


You are NOT getting the gravity of what the OM is. The OM doesn't think you are a man. He thinks you are weak and pathetic. He's taking your woman until he gets tired of her. Do you think he will respect that request? He's either screwing or trying to screw your wife. There is NO respect there. Do you want to converse in a civil way with someone who thinks that about you?

Dude nice guy do finish last and you're being wayyyyy to nice. Take up for yourself as a person.


----------



## jfv

These things thrive in secrecy so EXPOSE to his wife right away. Send a group text of your own. If the other men and women in the circle are truly your friends, then warn them as well. If you don't you are enabling the affair and protecting your enemy from consequences. That would be insane.....right?


----------



## Cubby

Stickman, if you're not going to let the rock star predator's wife know, can you let us know what your objections are so we can discuss it?


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## StickMan1

I AM going to tell his wife. I'm doing that today! I made that decision last night, that she needs to be aware of what happened 8 months ago and is still going on. I know I need that ally on the other side.

The questions I was asking is more around how things progress from here. Wife and I talked about no longer being friends with him - I posted how well that didn't go in a previous post. We didn't get to the point of all of the details of what 'no longer being friends with him' means in the conversation, and she needs to know those details, but I don't really want to text that to her while she's at work - afraid that will show weakness.

Right now I'm in 180 mode, going about my business, being myself around the house, but not showing her any needyness, not asking how she's doing, not bringing her coffee (like I often do on the weekend), etc. I'm not being a ****, I'm being cordial, but I know she's testing me for how weak I'm going to be. I've shown nothing but weakness in the past, I won't anymore. She has to get the message that I'm serious about this and that I have more self respect than this.


----------



## Shaggy

So your going to ask the help of the man who wants to bang your wife to stop your wife from contacting him.

Dude, this guy is not a friend in any sense of the word.

I also think there is more about what has gone on than you have been told. The texts are much to direct and the tone of them says there has been more. Either in the past, over video cams, or a quickie at some point.

A friend does not do with a friends wife what he did.

And you ate protecting him even though he shat in your house. That says volumes about who is the alpha here, and it isn't you.

So where would the line be before you would disown him as a friend and tell his wife that he cheated with your wife?

A. Exchanging texts and maybe phone calls professing love, desire, sexual need, and in fact detail sexual activities?

B. pictures of them naked?

.C. Cam sex?

D. A quickie back stage in a dressing room or a car in the parking lot?

What does he have to do to get your attention?

Right now it's to the point that your wife wants him sexually and emotionally. She's willing to end the marriage to maintain contact.

I can't help but wonder if there is a burner phone or some other places she is using to keep in contact with him perhaps from work.

Your treating this like a clean up opperation after the worst of dust gas settled, but her actions say its still going on, and you just threw in a wrench that will mske it harder for her to find opportunities to be with him.


----------



## Thundarr

StickMan1 said:


> I'm thinking of sending him a quick message to exclude my wife and I from the group text tomorrow. There will be full-blown NC messages to him at some point, but as of right now, she hasn't fully come around. I'm thinking a the quick message may tip him off to what's coming though, but I guess that doesn't really matter. Hmm...


Sending a quick message or call to his wife makes more sense. Tipping him off to what's coming the crazy. It's the opposite of what you want and I'm sorry this is happening and "nice" will not get you out of it and neither will threatening to get tough.

Do you think if you tell him to take you off the list then he'll get scared and stop chasing your wife and she'll fall back in line? That's not how it works. You have to exude leadership qualities and defend your honor. Not as a man but as a person who's being betrayed. There has to be consequences or nothing good will happen. At best a false recovery.

If it's not in your nature then it's tough but when we get down to the core reasons for NC, 180, and all of these terms we throw around what it really means is that you have to value yourself and dedend your value so you're not treated bad. As a completely wonderful side affect of this, you exude confidence, strength, self respect, etc. All of which makes you so much more attractive. Then and only then you may be the one choosing if you want to work things out or not. As it stands now, your wife thinks that you are lucky she hasn't already dumped you and that you will be all alone and incapable to getting a girl if she leaves you.


----------



## Will_Kane

StickMan1 said:


> Here's the current status of where things are at...
> 
> We had the NC conversation last night, she blew up, blameshifted, defended the friendship, said she'd resent me for 'forcing' her not to be friends with him, etc. We were away from each other the rest of the night and haven't had any communication w/ each other since.
> 
> Today she's going to be at work all day. Tomorrow we're expecting group texts from the OM to a bunch of us regarding a show they're playing in our town in May. I know these texts are coming, tomorrow. I want the NC in place before that but we can't resolve it today because she's going to be gone all day. Do I pressure her at this point? Do I 'go dark' until she owns up? If I 'go dark', it could take her a day or two to come around because of the way she reacted in the NC conversation. I don't have a couple days. Suggestions welcome!


Just act normal until you talk to her later. You do live together, correct? And she's not going out drinking late with her girlfriend? So you should have a chance to talk to her later? If so, just wait until she gets home later and see if she will send the no contact letter. Then whichever way the conversation goes, take action accordingly.


----------



## Shaggy

StickMan1 said:


> I AM going to tell his wife. I'm doing that today! I made that decision last night, that she needs to be aware of what happened 8 months ago and is still going on. I know I need that ally on the other side.
> 
> The questions I was asking is more around how things progress from here. Wife and I talked about no longer being friends with him - I posted how well that didn't go in a previous post. We didn't get to the point of all of the details of what 'no longer being friends with him' means in the conversation, and she needs to know those details, but I don't really want to text that to her while she's at work - afraid that will show weakness.
> 
> Right now I'm in 180 mode, going about my business, being myself around the house, but not showing her any needyness, not asking how she's doing, not bringing her coffee (like I often do on the weekend), etc. I'm not being a ****, I'm being cordial, but I know she's testing me for how weak I'm going to be. I've shown nothing but weakness in the past, I won't anymore. She has to get the message that I'm serious about this and that I have more self respect than this.


What you do is tell the OMW and inform her that her husband is now no longer part of your lives. He is not welcome in anyway and he should never contact you or your wife ever.

Send her any evidence and texts that you have so the OM can't downplay and blame shift it yo you bring crazy and paranoid.

Do not tell you wife you have done this, just let the firestorm hit.

When your wife angrily confronts you, claiming that you had no right to do that, ask her what about telling the actual truth to the wife of the guy she cheated with is out of bounds?

Did his wife nit have a right to know what her husband did?

Where you somehow beholden to the OM that you should be protecting him?

Do not let your wife act the victim here. She is the on who has cheated, the OM has cheated. You and his wife aren't he betrayed spouses.


----------



## Maricha75

StickMan, tell OMW now. I didn't tell OW fiance right away because I didn't think about it then plus, I didn't have his contact info.... and then I thought it was too late. NC was set on March 30th. Everything was removed on our end. We didn't think to block OW at that time. Then, on Father's Day, she sent hubby a text. I was livid. What part of NC did she not understand?! Well, after having been here about a month or so by then, I knew what I had to do. I sent her fiance a letter, no return address on the envelope. I suspect she intercepted it, but regardless, we have heard nothing from her since that time.

So, why am I telling you this? Because you need to stay completely on top of this. Yea, I get that it was only EA. So was mine, so was my husband's. We said similar things in ours that your wife and OM said. And there was zero physical contact with our EA partners. 

You need to stay on top of this. And that means telling his wife.


----------



## Will_Kane

StickMan1 said:


> I'm thinking of sending him a quick message to exclude my wife and I from the group text tomorrow. There will be full-blown NC messages to him at some point, but as of right now, she hasn't fully come around. I'm thinking a the quick message may tip him off to what's coming though, but I guess that doesn't really matter. Hmm...


This is weak and ineffective. He will immediately contact your wife and say WTF?

If you contact anyone, it's his wife.

The only one to contact him is your wife, and then only to establish no contact with you watching.


----------



## Thundarr

StickMan1 said:


> I AM going to tell his wife. I'm doing that today! I made that decision last night, that she needs to be aware of what happened 8 months ago and is still going on. I know I need that ally on the other side.


This is great news StickMan.



StickMan1 said:


> The questions I was asking is more around how things progress from here. Wife and I talked about no longer being friends with him - I posted how well that didn't go in a previous post. We didn't get to the point of all of the details of what 'no longer being friends with him' means in the conversation, and she needs to know those details, but I don't really want to text that to her while she's at work - afraid that will show weakness.


It can be stated plainly that no contact means you will never talk, text, etc him again ever if we are together. Then drop the subject. It's not up for debate. It's a choice she has every right to make.



StickMan1 said:


> Right now I'm in 180 mode, going about my business, being myself around the house, but not showing her any needyness, not asking how she's doing, not bringing her coffee (like I often do on the weekend), etc. I'm not being a ****, I'm being cordial, but I know she's testing me for how weak I'm going to be. I've shown nothing but weakness in the past, I won't anymore. She has to get the message that I'm serious about this and that I have more self respect than this.


I'm getting optimistic that I was misjudging and that you are getting what we've been saying. Good luck.


----------



## Will_Kane

StickMan1 said:


> I AM going to tell his wife. I'm doing that today! I made that decision last night, that she needs to be aware of what happened 8 months ago and is still going on. I know I need that ally on the other side.
> 
> The questions I was asking is more around how things progress from here. Wife and I talked about no longer being friends with him - I posted how well that didn't go in a previous post. We didn't get to the point of all of the details of what 'no longer being friends with him' means in the conversation, and she needs to know those details, but I don't really want to text that to her while she's at work - afraid that will show weakness.
> 
> Right now I'm in 180 mode, going about my business, being myself around the house, but not showing her any needyness, not asking how she's doing, not bringing her coffee (like I often do on the weekend), etc. I'm not being a ****, I'm being cordial, but I know she's testing me for how weak I'm going to be. I've shown nothing but weakness in the past, I won't anymore. She has to get the message that I'm serious about this and that I have more self respect than this.


Good. Stay with this plan. Talk to her about no contact later when she gets home, don't text her.

If you tell his wife today, you likely won't have much of a conversation with your wife later. Based on how deep she appears into the relationship with this guy whom she supposedly rarely sees and supposedly goes weeks at a time without texting, she is going to go nuclear when she finds out that you told his wife. And you can expect that your wife will find out very shortly after other man finds out.

Good luck.


----------



## StickMan1

Yeah, I'm not giving him anything at this point. And yeah, my wife and I can talk more tonight about the NC and what that all entails.

As far as contacting OMW, as awkward as it feels, if I were in her shoes, I'd want to know! I don't have OMW contact info, but I could probably get her email or something through FB or from where she works. I'll start hunting that down right now.

Thanks again for all of your guidance throughout the past couple days! More to come...


----------



## edubs

Shaggy said:


> What you do is tell the OMW and inform her that her husband is now no longer part of your lives. He is not welcome in anyway and he should never contact you or your wife ever.
> 
> Send her any evidence and texts that you have so the OM can't downplay and blame shift it yo you bring crazy and paranoid.
> 
> Do not tell you wife you have done this, just let the firestorm hit.
> 
> When your wife angrily confronts you, claiming that you had no right to do that, ask her what about telling the actual truth to the wife of the guy she cheated with is out of bounds?
> 
> Did his wife nit have a right to know what her husband did?
> 
> Where you somehow beholden to the OM that you should be protecting him?
> 
> Do not let your wife act the victim here. She is the on who has cheated, the OM has cheated. You and his wife aren't he betrayed spouses.


I am someone who received a call from OMW that her husband and my wife were having an A. I am infinitely greatful for that call. If you are going to contact her to let her know please give her specifics. I was told about the relationships and txt messages between them. She told me should would give me a copy and then wouldn't. So now as a betrayed spouse I am sitting here wondering exactly what they said to each other and it is eating me alive. Imagine how the other person will feel in this situation.

Give her proof so she can confront the OM. Read her the exact messages, send her a copy - make sure it is concrete. Just not "your husband and my wife are doing something inappropriate" This will give him the ability to lie his way out of it like my W tried to do. 

I can hear it now. "It's no big deal honey, he's crazy. It was just texting. Do you really think I'd cheat on you ? It was honestly nothing, BS is overreacting. They obviously have issues in their relationship that we don't have"


----------



## the guy

1) contact OMW Mrs. band guy will confront Om and then Om will confront WW, so there is no need to tell your wife before or after you expose to OMW.

2) contacting OMW is better the containg OM again no need to confront OM....OMW will do that for you.

3) stay dark and hard 180. WW will confront you after she finds out about the exposer with OMW. When that happens calmly tell you wife that her response and resentment clarely shows you the extend of her feeling for OM and you will not share her with OM. Also inform her that since this issue is causeing this much resentment then clearly the marriage is to fragile to have 3 poeple in it. So go to OM and have a resentment free life and you, Om ,OMW can live happily ever after.


When engaging your wife remember to stay calm acknowlodge her statement and repeat your stance. no matter were your wife wants to take the discussion ie. blaming, resenting, controling, and the ol' you can't pick my friends" ....stay on point and repeat I will not share my wife, I want a healthy relationship with a women that is emotionally connected to me not to some one else. Also inform her that you will not control her or live with a resentful women and it will always be her choice to keep this marriage with these new boundries or leave ...giving you and her the oppertunity to be happy.

In short no matter what she says the fact will always be that you will no longer tolorate sharing your wife. She has professed her love for another man so her threats are worthless...you are moving forward, it will be up to her to keep up or not.


----------



## Cubby

Stickman, I don't know how all of this is going to play out, but I do know that you will emerge with your self-respect intact. Whether it's reconciliation with your wife or going through life without her, you will at least be able to stand tall and proceed confidently. It feels great to have a "nobody effs with me or my marriage" mindset, doesn't it? 

Now go out and buy some cool clothes, get a new haircut or something. If you're not already, start lifting weights, working out.
Make your wife wonder if she really does want to lose you? Women are attracted to men that other women are attracted to. Before, when you allowed the predator-friend into your lives, she saw you as weak. Her mind will now be spinning as she processes that you're now this assertive, confident, strong guy.


----------



## Cubby

Confused2much said:


> ...why in the world would you go out to dinner with him?????


That's what we all asked. Don't worry, Stickman gets it. I think I can speak for him and say he's kicking himself for allowing that. He's handling this very well so far....


----------



## StickMan1

Confused2much said:


> ...why in the world would you go out to dinner with him?????


I do get now. Part of dinner was my weakness, part was a final test. With 'innocent friendship contact' still occurring, and because I can see most of the texts she sends and receives, I wanted to see what would ensue after this. 'You look so good ' was the kicker. It ended w that, but that was enough for me. That alone made me realize I HAD to do something. Unfortunately I did some more of the weakness stuff, combined w some good tactics, but what had to be done was solidified with the suggestions and support of all the fine people here. It was the boost I needed. We'll see how this all plays out.

By the way, I'm having trouble finding any contact info for OMW. Any suggestions?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Her phone, spokeo.com, google his name, band name


----------



## StickMan1

chapparal said:


> Her phone, spokeo.com, google his name, band name


I edited my last post, I meant OMW not OM. I've got her address. I wanted it to be done sooner than later, but I suppose I could send a letter.


----------



## Chaparral

If you have her name and adress, try yellowpages.com for a landline number.


----------



## the guy

google the address. property tax info might come up and you might get both names, then google her name.

maybe some county records will have a wedding lic. info.

if you have the dough hire a PI in that state and for a few hundred bucks you can get enough info to email her.


----------



## Thundarr

StickMan1 said:


> By the way, I'm having trouble finding any contact info for OMW. Any suggestions?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Online Background Checks, Government Arrest Records, Sex Offender Database and More: Check Criminal Records Online with Instant Checkmate Background Checker
https://www.peoplesmart.com

These will help search for phone number, address, etc for a little fee but it's hit and miss. My suggestions is to lookup a private investigator in the area to find the information. It may cost you $100 or so.


----------



## carmen ohio

StickMan1 said:


> So, I just had the NC conversation, and here's how it went...
> 
> We discussed where we're at, and where we're going. *I said that something has to change, because what we're doing isn't working. She asked what needed to change, and I said we can both no longer be friends with him. She got up and went in the bathroom at this point. She came back and said, "So what you're saying is I chose between being friends with him or staying married to you?" I said, "Yes", very matter of factly.* She got pissed at this point and said something like "Why can't you just get over it. I'm not going to not be friends with him forever!" *I just repeated, "We need to protect our marriage, and because of what happened, this needs to happen. We can either continue to have issues like we are and slowly crumble, or we can end all of this misery between us now and cut him out of our circle."* She responded with "You better get a good lawyer". *I said, "Ok".* Then it switched again to "I can't believe you're doing this to me". *My response, "This is all rooted in the choice you made 8 months ago. No matter how big or small, you crossed a line that married people do not cross. I cannot and will not live my marriage like this"*
> 
> At this point she got out of the car because I was dropping her off for her to go out with her girlfriend for dinner.
> 
> I think I did pretty well! I did it all very matter-of-factly, with assertiveness. No tears, so I'm sorrys, nothing.
> 
> I think she's planning on going out drinking with her friend after dinner.
> 
> Should I demand she come home so we can continue our conversation? Or, should I give her her space and continue it when she gets home? She will likely be drinking... thoughts?


Dear SM1,

This is the *GOLD STANDARD* for dealing with such situations.

On top of that, your *fortitude* (_"right now she's testing how serious I am about this and waiting for me to txt her and ask her where she is. I won't."_), *attitude* (_"I!m not the person who gets f'in walked on, nor will I be anymore!!"_ / _"I'm fine. Head in right place. She can say anything at this point and it wont phase me."_) and *demeanor* (_"Right now I'm in 180 mode, going about my business, being myself around the house, but not showing her any needyness, not asking how she's doing, not bringing her coffee (like I often do on the weekend), etc. I'm not being a ****, I'm being cordial, but I know she's testing me for how weak I'm going to be. I've shown nothing but weakness in the past, I won't anymore. She has to get the message that I'm serious about this and that I have more self respect than this."_) are *GRADE A*.

*YOU ARE THE MAN. *

Things will work out for you, hopefully with your WW but, if not, with someone who is truly worthy of you.

All the best (which is what you deserve).


----------



## OldWolf57

StickMan1;128760
'Wanna come over? ;)' said:


> Any time she get pissed just remember the words he wrote her. And I wonder what she txted for him to respond with I REALLY WANT YOU.
> Bet that one got deleted. You might take it out of context.
> 
> Stick, you doing good dude. so don't for a minute let up.
> And turn her own words back on her when she go off.
> Tell her if he don't mean so much to her, why is she saying get a good lawyer. That show she cares more for him than her marriage.
> And ask why she say she will resent you if he don't mean as much as she say.
> And the reason she was treating you so well, you was still letting her get her lil shivers by txting him.
> Also as some said, I wouldn't trust they are not in more contact. She know you looking an would get nosy if there was no contact, so they do a lil where you can see.
> There is just too much anger and resentment for limited contact.
> Get that VAR !!!
> 
> You know, I like Tyler Perry movies, but today was the first time I watched " Why Did I Get Married II ", and there is even and EA in that with his wife and another lawyer. And it's just like he said to his guys, its more harmful, bc women invest emotionally.
> 
> So do not let her downplay this. In fact give her "Not Just Friends". Never mind that, she already know she crossed the line. That's why she deleted the txts.


----------



## StickMan1

Wife and I shared texts throughout the day today (she's at work). There were moments of trying to say I'm controlling, I'm telling her what to do, threatening resentment, etc. I kept going back w/ the same thing - we have 2 choices, continue on w/ him in our lives and allowing it to poison our marriage, or he's out of our lives and this thing gets dealt with and put behind us once and for all. It's the only way, you have a choice in the matter - you know what I'm willing to live with as a husband and what I'm not, the choice is up to you.

She accused me of having no emotion, I told her it seems like that because I'm moving forward and she can choose to join me. She also asked if I'd leave her, I again brought up the boundaries that are appropriate for our marriage given what happened. She eventually replied with "I chose you.".

I knew in my heart where her heart is, it's with me. She's fogged and hurting and will see the light soon.

So, now that the 180 and putting the guidelines in place for our marriage seemed to turn her around, do I continue w/ the 180/no emotion approach? I will not waiver, I will not back down from this, we will be sending our NC's together tonight. We will talk and talk and talk, I'm sure. I'll have all kinds of things whipped at me but my head is so clear she can say anything she wants - my response will continue to be my marriage is too important to me and I have more self respect than to live like this. It is the only way forward.


----------



## walkonmars

GREAT work stick!
She may have spoken to him today. Worst case, they'll take it underground and gaslight you with lip service. 

That's why it is so important for you to inform OMW without telling your wife. You'll soon know if NC is legit.


----------



## arbitrator

Cubby said:


> More: just because you've checked phone records don't think there hasn't been communication. They might have taken it underground. She might have a burner phone. Get a voice-activated recorder and velcro under the seat of her car. You could be surprised at what you find. Don't get caught.


And don't forget the old fashioned land line! And then she can talk to him at her work or from a payphone with a cheap long-distance phone card.

Frankly, I'm greatly thinking that their dialogue has not even missed a beat. Don't be made a fool of!


----------



## walkonmars

Someone else suggested a very good idea and tonight is the perfect time to implement it.

If she has any of the bands music have her help you dump it tonight. It's part of NC.


----------



## Entropy3000

StickMan1 said:


> Wife and I shared texts throughout the day today (she's at work). There were moments of trying to say I'm controlling, I'm telling her what to do, threatening resentment, etc. I kept going back w/ the same thing - we have 2 choices, continue on w/ him in our lives and allowing it to poison our marriage, or he's out of our lives and this thing gets dealt with and put behind us once and for all. It's the only way, you have a choice in the matter - you know what I'm willing to live with as a husband and what I'm not, the choice is up to you.
> 
> She accused me of having no emotion, I told her it seems like that because I'm moving forward and she can choose to join me. She also asked if I'd leave her, I again brought up the boundaries that are appropriate for our marriage given what happened. She eventually replied with "I chose you.".
> 
> I knew in my heart where her heart is, it's with me. She's fogged and hurting and will see the light soon.
> 
> So, now that the 180 and putting the guidelines in place for our marriage seemed to turn her around, do I continue w/ the 180/no emotion approach? I will not waiver, I will not back down from this, we will be sending our NC's together tonight. We will talk and talk and talk, I'm sure. I'll have all kinds of things whipped at me but my head is so clear she can say anything she wants - my response will continue to be my marriage is too important to me and I have more self respect than to live like this. It is the only way forward.


This is exactly correct. Staying firm will help get this on track sooner. There is nothing to discuss or compromise on. He is unacceptable in your relationship. Period. Stay on message.


----------



## Chaparral

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



StickMan1;128760
'Wanna come over? ' said:


> Notice he said talking................not texting. There seems to be much more communication than you are aware of. I agree with the others that there has been a lot more going on than you know. How far back have you checked cell records. If this is an affair of convenience it could go back a long time with only intermittent meetings.
> 
> Any chance you can talk to the girlfrind she was with last night? You need the VARs bad.


----------



## Chaparral

The 180 is to help you diconnect and move on from the marriage, so no, the 180 is not appropriate now. That doesn't mean you turn into a doormat. Do everything to keep her respect, no crying in front of her etc. You need to download Married Man Sex Life Primer NOW to understand all this. You can download it now at google and order the book to come in later. This is an absolute must.

You have done great so far, watch for other means of communication. Never forget what you know they were talking about, what they were going to do and what you do not know that was deleted.

If she has an Iphone or some other smart phones, deleted texts can be retrieved.

Good luck and prayers for your family.


----------



## carmen ohio

StickMan1 said:


> Wife and I shared texts throughout the day today (she's at work). There were moments of trying to say I'm controlling, I'm telling her what to do, threatening resentment, etc. I kept going back w/ the same thing - we have 2 choices, continue on w/ him in our lives and allowing it to poison our marriage, or he's out of our lives and this thing gets dealt with and put behind us once and for all. It's the only way, you have a choice in the matter - *you know what I'm willing to live with as a husband and what I'm not, the choice is up to you.*
> 
> She accused me of having no emotion, *I told her it seems like that because I'm moving forward and she can choose to join me.* She also asked if I'd leave her, *I again brought up the boundaries that are appropriate for our marriage given what happened.* She eventually replied with "I chose you.".
> 
> *I knew in my heart where her heart is, it's with me. *She's fogged and hurting and will see the light soon.
> 
> So, now that the 180 and putting the guidelines in place for our marriage seemed to turn her around, *do I continue w/ the 180/no emotion approach?* I will not waiver, I will not back down from this, we will be sending our NC's together tonight. We will talk and talk and talk, I'm sure. I'll have all kinds of things whipped at me but my head is so clear she can say anything she wants - *my response will continue to be my marriage is too important to me and I have more self respect than to live like this.* It is the only way forward.



Dear SM1,

As to your question, "_do I continue w/ the 180/no emotion approach?_" you have answered it yourself. See the bolded statements above and just keep practicing them. Be pleasant, but not overly so, caring, but not overly so. Above all, continue to behave as a person who respects himself, knows where he is going and doesn't tolerate any form of disrespect from his spouse.

One word of caution, the bolded and underlined statement above may or may not be true. Please don't let your guard down or start thinking that all your problems are behind you. They're not. You still have to deal with the fact that your WW had an EA (no matter how brief) and went behind your back. Don't forget that. Only time will tell if she will follow through with her NC promise and if she will turn out to be a loyal and trustworthy woman.

As I said in my first post on this thread, you now have to rebuild your marriage. You've started on the right foot but there are may steps that you -- and your WW -- will have to take. Others have recommended things you should do and resources that will help you. I would also suggest that you start reading:

Blog | Married Man Sex Life

Best of luck


----------



## Thundarr

StickMan1 said:


> Wife and I shared texts throughout the day today (she's at work). There were moments of trying to say I'm controlling, I'm telling her what to do, threatening resentment, etc. I kept going back w/ the same thing - we have 2 choices, continue on w/ him in our lives and allowing it to poison our marriage, or he's out of our lives and this thing gets dealt with and put behind us once and for all. It's the only way, you have a choice in the matter - you know what I'm willing to live with as a husband and what I'm not, the choice is up to you.
> 
> She accused me of having no emotion, I told her it seems like that because I'm moving forward and she can choose to join me. She also asked if I'd leave her, I again brought up the boundaries that are appropriate for our marriage given what happened. She eventually replied with "I chose you.".
> 
> I knew in my heart where her heart is, it's with me. She's fogged and hurting and will see the light soon.
> 
> So, now that the 180 and putting the guidelines in place for our marriage seemed to turn her around, do I continue w/ the 180/no emotion approach? I will not waiver, I will not back down from this, we will be sending our NC's together tonight. We will talk and talk and talk, I'm sure. I'll have all kinds of things whipped at me but my head is so clear she can say anything she wants - my response will continue to be my marriage is too important to me and I have more self respect than to live like this. It is the only way forward.


*She also asked if I'd leave her* this is a sign that she's worried about what's at risk and that she doesn't have control. Don't get too optimistic too soon though. You've just begun the first quarter. There's a lot of game to play.


----------



## Shaggy

I choose you is good. Reply I, choose you too. and OM is not part of our marriage.

Use spokeo or the yellowpages to find OMW. Contact her and expose the OM.


----------



## 3putt

Don't let up on finding the POSOM's wife. You've done great on the talk part and laying down the law, but it's time to ratchet it up a notch. Don't let off the gas now as she might just be saying these things to placate you in the hopes of getting you to back off. Has happened WAY too many times. Time to polish things off with some aggressive exposure and put a complete end to the game that was just mentioned, not just take a timeout as she is hoping.


----------



## workindad

I wonder how she would feel if this had been you texting love messages to a former EA partner...


----------



## Acabado

Don't trust her "I choose you" just becasue suddenly she said that. Trust but verify. Specially as POSOM's concert aproach. She might also confide in a Gf (the amount of WWs who have confidants/enablers is incredible).
So keylog the PC, monitor also the phone, check the phone bill, get a VAR so you can be sure if red flags arise. She might seem cracking after the yesterday's bully tactic but it also might be other things. Be sure.

No More Mr Nice Guy
The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 ebook
marduk recovery plan


----------



## StickMan1

Thanks for the links!

We'll be doing some talking in a bit here. I'm going to confess that I know some of what they exchanged via a text backup app that sent most of her sent and received msgs to my gmail account. She wont be pleased with this, but the deceit led me to this. Any thoughts on approaching this subject?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3putt

No, no, no! Do NOT divulge your sources...ever!


----------



## StickMan1

3putt said:


> No, no, no! Do NOT divulge your sources...ever!


Ok! To me it seems to be part of the rebuilding trust process. Too soon for that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3putt

You offer up what info avenue you have for cheating, then she'll just find another. Keep her guessing.....and paranoid you have it ALL covered.


----------



## Maricha75

StickMan1 said:


> Ok! To me it seems to be part of the rebuilding trust process. Too soon for that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you were to tell her about that, she would search the phone for the app...and remove it. And then she would use that against you. And resume contact with OM, or just not end contact. Do NOT tell her how you know.


----------



## 3putt

StickMan1 said:


> Ok! To me it seems to be part of the rebuilding trust process. Too soon for that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Only by about 2 years! LOL


----------



## Acabado

Way too soon. You are catching a lier and it's what it takes. Period.

A good move would be purchase Not Just Friends, by Shirkley Glass, it will help YOU. If later WW want to read it too, the better. 
That nonsense "she's just that way" (she claims flirty, I say no boundaires) must end.


----------



## sigma1299

Remember. Actions not words here man. She has to PROVE she chooses you not just say it. Her saying it, while a good sign, ultimately means nothing. Do not ever forget - cheaters lie!!


----------



## jim123

Do not telldo her how you know but let her know you do know. Let her think someone else told you. Do not waste a long time in playing cat and mouse. Get down to the truth, whatever it is.


----------



## Chaparral

This was 100% cheating. Cheaters lie. Has she been up front about everything? Not even close,, they were going to hook up. This isn't over until a lot of time has passed and EVERY thing has been verified. She hasn't earned even a little trust yet.


----------



## Thundarr

StickMan1 said:


> Ok! To me it seems to be part of the rebuilding trust process. Too soon for that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No there is no issue with your trustworthiness. Just hers. This is not a two way street anymore. She was the one speeding and she's the one with the ticket. hmm. Note to self. Stop talking in metaphors.


----------



## Shaggy

Rebuilding trust is essential.

Btw, it is her that violated the trust not you. You don't need to be rebuilding trust. Your job is it see if she has earned trust again by her actions.


----------



## StickMan1

We talked for hours last night. She said things like 'I get it' and 'I understand' but at the same time things like 'that's' my personality', 'taking it out of context' and she tried to negotiate what no contact means. She begrudgingly agreed it is the only way to move forward, the only way we'll make it. She's willing to send the NC w me when the kids are off to school. I am sticking to 100% NC, asked if she's in or not without pressuring. She says 'yes', but is acting pissed about it. We're planning on doing it this morn, based on my recommendations. Of doing it sooner than later if she's in, I just don't want this to be me forcing her. I'm sticking to my guns, but am I in force mode? I don't think so, but curious the state of mind of others who went thru this. Did the WS have a light bulb come on and happily send it? Or was it more of a begrudgingly doing it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Just make sure you are super suspicious. I'm not saying she isn't trying. The thing is you don't know how heavily invested she is in the POSOM. Was she remorseful, apologetic, crying?

Here is why you trust but verify...............http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/31959-false-recovery.html

You still need to recover the deleted emails/texts. Did she use a smart phone?


----------



## Malaise

StickMan1 said:


> We talked for hours last night. She said things like 'I get it' and 'I understand' but at the same time things like 'that's' my personality', 'taking it out of context' and she tried to negotiate what no contact means. *She begrudgingly agreed it is the only way to move forward, *the only way we'll make it. She's willing to send the NC w me when the kids are off to school. I am sticking to 100% NC, asked if she's in or not without pressuring. She says 'yes', but is acting pissed about it. We're planning on doing it this morn, based on my recommendations. Of doing it sooner than later if she's in, I just don't want this to be me forcing her. I'm sticking to my guns, but am I in force mode? I don't think so, but curious the state of mind of others who went thru this. Did the WS have a light bulb come on and happily send it? Or was it more of a begrudgingly doing it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



This

She's not fully on board and won't be for long time.

The monitoring, sadly, must continue for awhile longer.


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## Cubby

It's good that she realizes you're right, but troubling that she's dragging her feet. It looks like she's going through withdrawal, which means she's been in contact with him a lot. That's why you need to get hold of texts and emails, etc. I'd do the VAR under the car seat, but be careful about not getting caught. Be pleasant with her, but don't waver, stay firm.


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## SomedayDig

Malaise said:


> This
> 
> She's not fully on board and won't be for long time.
> 
> The monitoring, sadly, must continue for awhile longer.


I agree...but most of the times when it comes to initiating NC, how many WS's are fully on board from the onset? 

Stick...it sucks to have to monitor, but it is essential to ensure NC. Even if it goes a couple weeks, there is going to come a time (possibly) that she's gonna go bat sh-t because she hasn't been getting her band-boy fix.

Stay firm.

Oh...and make sure to ditch ALL of the music from this dude's band. Trust me, I made my wife throw out every single pair of panties and bras that were in her drawer the week of Dday. ALL without the benefit of TAM. My wife went along with every thing I demanded. And THAT is how a spouse who f'd up should be. Not saying she's been perfect (some trickle truth) but she's on board.


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## Maricha75

StickMan1 said:


> Did the WS have a light bulb come on and happily send it? Or was it more of a begrudgingly doing it?


I think my husband did it begrudgingly, at first. I had sent the OW a text telling her i thought it would be best if they no longer spoke to each other. This was before I found TAM. She lambasted me. She said things like "did it ever occur to you that maybe he's acting so great now is because of me?"... Well, yes, that thought HAD occurred to me... hence, my request, duh! Anyway, she sent me this long text response and sent the same text to my husband. And she said she wanted to hear (read) it from HIM, not from me sending from his phone. He read it, sent her the text to cease contact, and she laid into him for it. At that point, he agreed it was the right choice.... though in the following days, he did say once that "I guess I can't have any friends" crap...which I shot down immediately! But we have been doing MUCH better since.


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## Cdelta02

StickMan1 said:


> We talked for hours last night. She said things like 'I get it' and 'I understand' but at the same time things like 'that's' my personality', 'taking it out of context' and she tried to negotiate what no contact means. She begrudgingly agreed it is the only way to move forward, the only way we'll make it. She's willing to send the NC w me when the kids are off to school. I am sticking to 100% NC, asked if she's in or not without pressuring. She says 'yes', but is acting pissed about it. We're planning on doing it this morn, based on my recommendations. Of doing it sooner than later if she's in, I just don't want this to be me forcing her. I'm sticking to my guns, but am I in force mode? I don't think so, but curious the state of mind of others who went thru this. Did the WS have a light bulb come on and happily send it? Or was it more of a begrudgingly doing it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dont expect lightbulbs, she is still in a fog. At this stage, you have to fight for your marriage, she may not be able to. Dont use her doing NC without your prompting as a test, it will fail, always does unless the spouse if out of the fog, which in your case is obviously not true.

You have done well.

Keep monitoring. Check for spend on a credit card for a burner phone. Monitor cash withdrawals. Put a VAR in her car. Keep doing this for 6-9 months at least. By that time, her NC if real, will lower the dopamine levels. Then you can go to routine monitoring.

Sorry, thats how long it should take, but its worth it in your case.


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## StickMan1

You pretty much answered it for me Someday, how many are fully inboard right off the bat? Probably not many. Don't get me wrong, she's not blameshifting anymore and she's not being *****y, she has been very remorseful in the past, not so much lately.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cdelta02

She has been remorseful in the past because that way she knew she could keep you happy and protect her cake eating. Now that you lowered the boom on that nonsense, she is showing her true colors (I dont mean this negatively). Her love for the OM seems to have been deep. Your actions are now making her choose and she hates that. If she is truly committed, the remorse will come, but she has to come to grips with what is happening so far.


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## Shaggy

StickMan1 said:


> . Don't get me wrong, she's not blameshifting anymore and she's not being *****y, she has been very remorseful in the past, not so much lately.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is the most worrying part, especially since you both just saw him. She got a nice hit of the happy affair chemicals to her brain from seeing him, touching him, feeling him.

You really need to contact his wife and have her help in ending this relationship, or I fear it will very much go underground.

I'm betting this guy has a number of women he's doing this with, along with random hookups in various places he plays. So he knows the game and he knows how to keep the married ones hooked.

He's going to come fishing again for her, and he's going to suggest she take it underground via an email, or hiding his name under another name.

The question is what will she do? I'm thinking in her current mindset, she'll accept the offer to go underground. In fact this may already have happened when she left the other night. 

It's highly possible she went right out and contacted him about you being controlling and trying to force the two of them apart.


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## Cdelta02

About OMW, have you told her or not? Also have you exposed OM to your group of friends or not?

If you havent exposed to your group yet, you could use one of them to find her name. Then getting her details should be easy through property records (most states have them online). Alternately, you can tell people you want to send the OM and OMW something nice for Xmas, and need their address without tipping them off. Of course if you use this approach, you may need to send 2 letters or more to OMW. The first one will most likely get intercepted. The 2nd one or 3rd one if sent after sufficient gaps, are unlikely to be intercepted especially if they are sent when the band is playing out of town (which I am sure you can find out).


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## Soifon

You said you are friends with OM on FB, have you not searched OM's FB page for his wife?


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## Entropy3000

StickMan1 said:


> We talked for hours last night. She said things like 'I get it' and 'I understand' but at the same time things like 'that's' my personality', 'taking it out of context' and she tried to negotiate what no contact means. She begrudgingly agreed it is the only way to move forward, the only way we'll make it. She's willing to send the NC w me when the kids are off to school. I am sticking to 100% NC, asked if she's in or not without pressuring. She says 'yes', but is acting pissed about it. We're planning on doing it this morn, based on my recommendations. Of doing it sooner than later if she's in, I just don't want this to be me forcing her. I'm sticking to my guns, but am I in force mode? I don't think so, but curious the state of mind of others who went thru this. Did the WS have a light bulb come on and happily send it? Or was it more of a begrudgingly doing it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She is not thinking clearly right. This tuff take time. You cannot work on the marriage with another man in it. She will have to go through withdrawal. She will likely backslide and try and contact him again. Never give up your sources of information. This will take years to heal BTW, so get your mind around that. She has shown a weakness for this.

When she is out of withdrawal, I suggest you do His Needs Her Needs together and set stronger opposite sex boundaries.


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## Entropy3000

StickMan1 said:


> You pretty much answered it for me Someday, how many are fully inboard right off the bat? Probably not many. Don't get me wrong, she's not blameshifting anymore and she's not being *****y, she has been very remorseful in the past, not so much lately.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was in an EA. I thought my wife was crazy. I did not want to give up the friendship. I did it because I loved my wife.

Just saying do not be discouraged by this. This is fairly SOP stuff. Sure it varies.

You are doing wonderfully well. This is the way it is done.

The WS is like a zombie. They are not thinking properly. It takes some time. A couple of months at the least. The first couple of weeks are critical and will be very challenging for you. Just stay firm and loving. This is tough love. She needs you to do this for the marriage and for her. Stay strong.

This is an addiction.


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## remorseful strayer

StickMan1 said:


> Married 15 years - most outsiders would consider our marriage a good marriage, we're both very open, good to each other, publicly affectionate, still hold hands, etc.
> 
> Earlier this year, we started to disconnect a bit. Our nightly routine consisted of watching separate TVs, going to bed at different times, etc. During this time, a very hard financial situation came up, putting both my wife and I in a stressed out place. That's when 'it' happened...
> 
> In April this year, a male mutual of my wife and I, who plays in a band and lives 3 states away, text messaged a bunch of us to let us know when the band would be coming to town again.
> 
> Initiated by that one simple text, within a week, the OM and my wife texting each other things like 'Wanna come over? ', 'I want you', 'I want to kiss you', 'I can't stop thinking about you', etc. The discovery of this came when the OM accidentally texted me instead of my wife - the text read... 'I REALLY want you... I LOVE talking to you. We both have so much at stake'. Upon receiving this msg I immediately checked the phone records, there were around 200 texts exchanged between the two of them in this one week.
> 
> My world imploded. We fought through the pain, agreed that it was an 'eye-opener' for the both of us, she was extremely apologetic, we bought new wedding rings to symbolize our renewed marriage. By summer, things were healing, we were doing good.
> 
> My mistake: rather than asking for no-contact w/ the OM, I tried to make it work by letting him know I didn't approve of what happened and I wanted their contact to be limited. They both agreed and swore it would never happen again. I've closely monitored the situation over the past 8 months - while I haven't seen things like what were originally said, I'd see random things like 'I miss you', 'can't wait to see you again', etc. I routinely check phone records and the volume of texts between the two is not what it was when the A happened, and they can go weeks without contact.
> 
> Last week the OM came to town and a bunch of us went out for dinner with him. When he left to catch his flight, he texted all of us 'Thanks... love ya'll'. My wife's response was (I saw it on her phone, but she didn't know this), 'I love you', 'You look so good '.
> 
> That was it for me. On the hour drive home we discussed our 'friendship' with him, and she fell apart. She said things like 'I've done everything to show my love for you and you still don't trust me'. She has been WONDERFUL to me in all respects, but I can't do this anymore. She feels betrayed because she says that's just her personality (she is a very friendly, flirty person) and she's not doing anything wrong or crossing the line.
> 
> Where do I go from here? I feel torn between getting rid of this threat I feel from the OM and the remaining lack of trust my wife and I have, but at the same time I do like the OM as a friend, but I think they're just asking for more trouble.
> 
> Thank you in advance!


This is not normal flirting behavior given that you already expressed to your wife that it makes you feel disrespected and threatened. 

Get this man out of her life. Insist on it. He is definitely a threat to your wellbeing if not your marriage.


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## jim123

StickMan1 said:


> You pretty much answered it for me Someday, how many are fully inboard right off the bat? Probably not many. Don't get me wrong, she's not blameshifting anymore and she's not being *****y, she has been very remorseful in the past, not so much lately.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because you are starting to put a stop to it. However, if she loved you she would worry more about her marriage. Treat this like an affair because it is. Read other treads where they did not take strong action and it became a PA. 

Do not play games.


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## StickMan1

Quick update.

We sent the NC's on Monday morning and spent the two days since then not saying too much to one another. I was still myself, affectionate, interacting w/ the kids, etc. She seemed steamrolled. I would ask her how she's doing, etc, but wouldn't get much of a response.

Yesterday morning the inevitable 'blowout' ensued. She broke down and said she wasn't sure how she felt about me, that I was controlling, 'black and white', etc. I kept going over the same things - this is disrespectful to me and our marriage, you have the choice to continue to do it and disrespect me, which I won't stand for, or you can move on with me. She got super pissed and I stayed pretty level-headed. She continued to compare this to an 'actual affair' as it not being as bad, etc. Finally I said to her, 'Look, this isn't about who's wrong or who's right, about you admitting anything, about me shoving things in your face. I'm doing this because I want nothing more in this life than YOU, and I won't live like this.' The lightbulb FINALLY came on and she said 'I get it, I really do get it' - it was like a complete 180!

Since then we have had some very good, connecting time spent w/ one another. She seemed pretty depressed this morning, because she's feeling really bad at this point. She's apologized a few times since the lightbulb moment, and this morning actually said 'Thank you for everything... all of it. I'm so lucky to have you'

While I know we're not out of the woods, I have to say THANK YOU to everyone here who supported me through this!! On varying levels, the advice provided to me here was literally priceless.


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## Thundarr

StickMan1 said:


> Quick update.
> 
> We sent the NC's on Monday morning and spent the two days since then not saying too much to one another. I was still myself, affectionate, interacting w/ the kids, etc. She seemed steamrolled. I would ask her how she's doing, etc, but wouldn't get much of a response.
> 
> Yesterday morning the inevitable 'blowout' ensued. She broke down and said she wasn't sure how she felt about me, that I was controlling, 'black and white', etc. I kept going over the same things - this is disrespectful to me and our marriage, you have the choice to continue to do it and disrespect me, which I won't stand for, or you can move on with me. She got super pissed and I stayed pretty level-headed. She continued to compare this to an 'actual affair' as it not being as bad, etc. *Finally I said to her, 'Look, this isn't about who's wrong or who's right, about you admitting anything, about me shoving things in your face. I'm doing this because I want nothing more in this life than YOU, and I won't live like this.*' The lightbulb FINALLY came on and she said 'I get it, I really do get it' - it was like a complete 180!
> 
> Since then we have had some very good, connecting time spent w/ one another. She seemed pretty depressed this morning, because she's feeling really bad at this point. She's apologized a few times since the lightbulb moment, and this morning actually said 'Thank you for everything... all of it. I'm so lucky to have you'
> 
> While I know we're not out of the woods, I have to say THANK YOU to everyone here who supported me through this!! On varying levels, the advice provided to me here was literally priceless.


The truth of that statement is undeniable and you expressed it to her without judgment or making it a personal attack. That light bulb going off was accompanied by huge deposits of respect to you from her. Makes sense that she's depressed. Guilt of what she's done to you and possibly withdrawal from OM and her possible having to acknowlegde and take ownership for both. These are a lot of emotions spinning around in her head. You are doing a great job.


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## SomedayDig

Stick...hands down that was a great statement to make at the most appropriate time. Impeccable!

I remember the light bulb going off with Regret. She did, as your wife, sink into a bit of depression for a while because of all the guilt that flooded her. What your wife is going through is normal. 

Just remain a strong man. Stand tall when you're standing next to her. She will notice. That was one of the things after I made my demands to Regret when she said (summarized) "Dig, I can't believe I have been so blind to the confident man who is standing in front of me. I can say I'm sorry every day for the rest of our lives and it wouldn't be enough."

Stay STRONG. Just because she is showing emotion and whatnot, don't do the "emo" thing. Hold her - YES. But hold her with strength.

Congrats, Stick.


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## StickMan1

Thanks Dig! It's amazing the renewed sense of strength in me from all of this. Instead of feeling threatened or paranoid, I feel like I AM her Man and I'll show her and support her. The capital M was on purpose there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cubby

Stickman, this is great news and I'm extremely impressed how you handled it. You remained firm in letting her know that you won't tolerate disrespect. And you did it in a way that gave her a way back into the marriage. It would have been easy to scream and yell and have a major blow-up, which could have jeopardized reconciliation. You stayed on point, didn't bring up other resentments, and didn't waver. Well done!


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## SomedayDig

StickMan1 said:


> Thanks Dig! It's amazing the renewed sense of strength in me from all of this. Instead of feeling threatened or paranoid, *I feel like I AM her Man* and I'll show her and support her. The capital M was on purpose there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dude...YES!!! Absolutely. And there have been many times when I've got that attitude, that I will look at her and say "You're MY girl," to which she gets a big sh-t eating grin on her face and says, "Yes I am!"


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