# The Toxic Friend (s)



## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

I posted a while back that I work at a hotel in a very tourism-based city. This week is a siginifcantly large event in our city - people are everywhere, hotels are booked, etc.

There was a group of women, mid-30s, about 8 or 9. For several days now, they have been going out every night, of course, it is a girls weekend after all, the husbands are at home! 

These women have ALL been cheating on their husbands. Random make-outs at the bars, bringing a guy back here and there...No doubt things are happening in parking lots. One woman is single - she was heard complaining "everyone is hooking up BUT me..." One woman (married) seemed shy and hesitant whenever I saw her or heard about what happened. (I have also heard about some incidents in addition to witnessing it, from individuals I trust). However, the "shy" wife is succumbing to the toxicity of the women she is with. 

I thought I've seen alot in hospitality. Adultery, absolutely. But to see a group of so many women, all cheating, all enjoying this disgusting behavior, all encouraging eachother and reveling in it, shocking. I hope that if anyone reads this whose spouse has a toxic friend, affecting the marriage in any way, please cut that person out! Even if that means straining your marriage; if your spouse refuses to even address it, your already in deep trouble. 

I was quite shocked to see all this, so many women at once. Toxic friends enjoy justifying this to eachother, they truly enjoy ridiculing, demeaning, and betraying their spouses. Awful stuff. 
A


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Gross.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Whip do you remember the old saying 'Birds of a feather flock together'? Well there right there before your eyes is living proof of the truth behind that saying. Too bad that it is illegal to get the names and addresses of the wives so that someone could send their husbands a message via phone or text that their wives were cheating on them.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Mori, I briefly considered hunting through reservation data to send an anonymous letter to atleast one. However, it was more of a passing moment of wishful thinking on my part. As much as I'd love to, jeopordizing my position is not worth dealing with these women. 

I'm heading out this evening, I truly hope I don't run into them out in town. These are beautiful women - yet my co-workers didn't understand how I could not stand to look at them. 

I still have trouble wrapping my mind around how much joy they take in deceiving the men they married - I see and hear adultery often in hospitality, yet to see it so intensely in such a large group is truly staggering.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

You've got to admit that it would be fun to slip a note to one of these cheating wives that said "I sent your husband photos of you and your lover having sex. Have a nice day" and then seeing her face turn 'white as a sheet' would be a priceless indeed.


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## Open4it (Sep 1, 2011)

I think it's a bit creepy you're paying so much attention to them.
You've kept track of all 8 or 9 women? and their marital status? AND you KNOW that they've all been cheating on their spouses? Maybe they have the blessing of their husbands. Maybe their husbands have a "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas." attitude.

This happens with "large groups" of men all the time if the stories I hear from men themselves are true.

Do I agree with this kind of behaviour for myself? A big, fat NO.
But you and I can't decide what's "right" or "wrong" for anyone nor presume to know what their spouses feel about it.

I think you should keep yourself out of your guests business.


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## Romeo_Holden (Sep 17, 2011)

Open4it said:


> I think it's a bit creepy you're paying so much attention to them.
> You've kept track of all 8 or 9 women? and their marital status? AND you KNOW that they've all been cheating on their spouses? Maybe they have the blessing of their husbands. Maybe their husbands have a "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas." attitude.
> 
> This happens with "large groups" of men all the time if the stories I hear from men themselves are true.
> ...


What are you going to tell him once those toxic friends influence his wife into an affair? it's his marriage...it IS his business, I bet you cheat too


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

Whip,

I think this is one of the most commonly overlooked issues inside marriages.

Toxic behavior will rub itself off on the people that allow it around them, there is no doubt in this.

The age old saying "Show me your friends and I will show you your future" holds true.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Open4it said:


> I think it's a bit creepy you're paying so much attention to them.
> You've kept track of all 8 or 9 women? and their marital status? AND you KNOW that they've all been cheating on their spouses? Maybe they have the blessing of their husbands. Maybe their husbands have a "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas." attitude.
> 
> This happens with "large groups" of men all the time if the stories I hear from men themselves are true.
> ...


I think I need to clarify something for you. No one is spying on guests. And by group I meant just that - they go out as groups. You don't hear of Girls Night Out where all the women go their seperate ways and don't speak to eachother at the bar for the rest of the night. I'm not referring to going to a beach, either. As I said, its a tourist city. That means nightlife. 

One thing you are right on is staying out of a person's business - thats true for anything regarding a stranger. But when I'm present for certain activities - let me rephrase that - when certain actions are conducted and words spoken in a public space in front of others, you're asking for the attention. And yes, they were/are cheating. 

It should of been pretty obvious from the tone of my post that I found what occurred to be disturbing - I much rather would have never had to deal with it at all.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Whip Morgan said:


> I posted a while back that I work at a hotel in a very tourism-based city. This week is a siginifcantly large event in our city - people are everywhere, hotels are booked, etc.
> 
> There was a group of women, mid-30s, about 8 or 9. For several days now, they have been going out every night, of course, it is a girls weekend after all, the husbands are at home!
> 
> ...


The pack mentallity. It works with guys as well of course. best not to have these tyoes of friends but when a situation does happen that is clearly beyond ones boundaries you have to be secure enough to not follow the pack.

Some women justify this by saying they assume men have always done this so it is their right and thier turn. Their choice. This just seems much more accepted behavior these days. It is ok. The husband must be a cheater or is neglecting her.

The assumption that the husbands are ok with this is a bit of a reach. Justifying the what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. It is just that what happens in Vegas does not really stay there. Whether anyone discovers it or not, it impacts the marriage.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Yeah. Never meant to declare only women did it, this was just the situation that arose. 

I understand the pack mentality. Its a shi**y thing sometimes. I would have loved to have never seen them out or heard them, but it can be hard to avoid, of all the bars here, only few are really good. Running into people happens, this was one time I wish it didn't. Then to hear about it. Even sucks more because I know one of the guys that hooked up with one of the women. Heard about that, too.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Romeo_Holden said:


> What are you going to tell him once those toxic friends influence his wife into an affair? it's his marriage...it IS his business, I bet you cheat too


The women he's talking about are not his wife's friends. They are guests at a hotel he works at. His marriage and the women he's talking about are two totally different subjects. How is telling another poster ' I bet you cheat too' helpful or useful? Nice way to vent and missplace your anger.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I think Whip is mainly making an observation and sharing this for others edification / comment. Usually what forums are used for.

So I don't think it is creepy. It is anecdotal.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Open4it said:


> I think it's a bit creepy you're paying so much attention to them.
> You've kept track of all 8 or 9 women? and their marital status? AND you KNOW that they've all been cheating on their spouses? Maybe they have the blessing of their husbands. Maybe their husbands have a "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas." attitude.
> 
> This happens with "large groups" of men all the time if the stories I hear from men themselves are true.
> ...



Did he hit a nerve?


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> I think Whip is mainly making an observation and sharing this for others edification / comment. Usually what forums are used for.
> 
> So I don't it is creepy. It is anecdotal.


For many, it's human nature to people watch in public. It's not like Whip is following them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JuicyJellybean (Sep 18, 2011)

I believe that any woman which is happy in her relationship will not stray. I think it takes more than a girls weekend away and a bit of peer pressure from girlfriends to cheat. ask any girl who has cheated most of the reasons for cheating begin at home. my advice to husbands would not be get rid of the "toxic friend" but instead treat your wife as you would like to be treated with respect, compassion and trust. And let her enjoy her night out with the girls.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

JuicyJellybean said:


> I believe that any woman which is happy in her relationship will not stray.



I so wish this were the truth.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

JuicyJellybean said:


> I believe that any woman which is happy in her relationship will not stray. I think it takes more than a girls weekend away and a bit of peer pressure from girlfriends to cheat. ask any girl who has cheated most of the reasons for cheating begin at home. my advice to husbands would not be get rid of the "toxic friend" but instead treat your wife as you would like to be treated with respect, compassion and trust. And let her enjoy her night out with the girls.


WRONG! Even wives in good marriages can have an affair. The late researcher Dr Shirley Glass PhD studied thousands of cases of infidelity and discovered that the crossing of marital boundaries was the key which lead to affairs.

Look, all marriages go through their stressful times when spouses will be very vulnerable to outside forces i.e. other people. Toxic girlfriends who are cheaters themselves, can help in pushing a vulnerable wife to become unfaithful to her husband. Birds of a feather flock together is very true.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

In my twenties I worked on a resort/party island and this was a constant theme.

It was so common to see groups of wives on girl only vacations balling every beach boy on the island that the very first "marital boundary" I ever set with my wife was "No separate vacations".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

morituri said:


> WRONG! Even wives in good marriages can have an affair. The late researcher Dr Shirley Glass PhD studied thousands of cases of infidelity and discovered that the crossing of marital boundaries was the key which lead to affairs.
> 
> Look, all marriages go through their stressful times when spouses will be very vulnerable to outside forces i.e. other people. Toxic girlfriends who are cheaters themselves, can help in pushing a vulnerable wife to become unfaithful to her husband. Birds of a feather flock together is very true.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

JuicyJellybean said:


> I believe that any woman which is happy in her relationship will not stray. I think it takes more than a girls weekend away and a bit of peer pressure from girlfriends to cheat. ask any girl who has cheated most of the reasons for cheating begin at home. my advice to husbands would not be get rid of the "toxic friend" but instead treat your wife as you would like to be treated with respect, compassion and trust. And let her enjoy her night out with the girls.


So as I said, when we see a woman cheat we like to blame it on her husband. LOL. If she was happy she would not stray. Therefore it is because her husband failed her.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

morituri said:


> WRONG! Even wives in good marriages can have an affair. The late researcher Dr Shirley Glass PhD studied thousands of cases of infidelity and discovered that the crossing of marital boundaries was the key which lead to affairs.
> 
> *Look, all marriages go through their stressful times when spouses will be very vulnerable to outside forces i.e. other people. Toxic girlfriends who are cheaters themselves, can help in pushing a vulnerable wife to become unfaithful to her husband.* Birds of a feather flock together is very true.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Yes, couples should do what they can to keep thier relationship in a state where there is less vulnerability but there are always times of vulnerability. We hope that we have the right boundaries, knowledge, savvy and character to not give in to the temptations but we should not be so arrogant as to think this cannot happen. That thinking can be our undoing.

Again this is not gender specific.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

tacoma said:


> In my twenties I worked on a resort/party island and this was a constant theme.
> 
> It was so common to see groups of wives on girl only vacations balling every beach boy on the island that the very first "marital boundary" I ever set with my wife was *"No separate vacations"*.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good boundary. Never understood separate vacations like these. Many folks swear by them. I guess they can turn into vacations from the marriage. 

Sorry I find this sad albeit not surprisng. Some may just celebrate the freedom of choice for the women and say you go girl. I wonder how many of those men had 100% faith in their partners or were called insecure, controlling and jealous for objecting.

I actually see a man who gives into this when they are not comfortabe with it as being very insecure in themselves. A secure man would not cave. Probably most however are naive while others don't really care and do the same.

Again, there are those who will say thsat the husbands are not men enough to satisfy thier women so they get what they deserve. Wakeup call.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> I actually see a man who gives into this when they are not comfortable with it as being very insecure in themselves. A secure man would not cave. Probably most however are naive while others don't really care and do the same.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Indeed. A secure man has non-negotiable boundaries that say explicitly to his wife, if you choose to do this I will divorce you and actually mean it. 



> Again, there are those who will say that the husbands are not men enough to satisfy their women so they get what they deserve. Wake-up call.


These probably will be the ones having sex with married women.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

tacoma said:


> In my twenties I worked on a resort/party island and this was a constant theme.
> 
> It was so common to see groups of wives on girl only vacations balling every beach boy on the island that the very first "marital boundary" I ever set with my wife was "No separate vacations".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Seems like every story of infidelity we've seen here that involved All Girl Vacations (AGVs) was about cheating. Seems just like an extended GNO where the girls high five each other each time they bang some dude. Like Entropy said, when husbands object, the controlling/jealous/insecure card is played.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

that_girl said:


> Did he hit a nerve?


Is she one of the girl in that group?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

LOL I feel bad now because a friend and I want to go to Liverpool, UK together (huge beatles nuts) and we are planning to go in 2014.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

that_girl said:


> LOL I feel bad now because a friend and I want to go to Liverpool, UK together (huge beatles nuts) and we are planning to go in 2014.


2014? Don't you know that according to the Mayan's - who only the good Lord knows what really happened to them - life on Earth will cease to exist in 2012? You and your friend better start celebrating now like it's 1999/ :rofl:
:lol:


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

morituri said:


> 2014? Don't you know that according to the Mayan's - who only the good Lord knows what really happened to them - life on Earth will cease to exist in 2012? You and your friend better start celebrating now like it's 1999/ :rofl:
> :lol:


:rofl: I live on the edge.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I'm very surprised by a couple of posters here that are coming down hard on whip for being against theses women cheating. These posters almost sound like they are defending cheating! If so boy are you in the wrong place, the rest of us have a non negotiable hated of cheating here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

I never understood cheating but I understand laughing at your spouses pain even less.
I also never understand separate vacations. Why would anybody do this? Is this common as I don't know anybody who ever did/does this?
I know if my husband came home one day and said he was going to Hawaii without me, my next appointment would be with a lawyer.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

My "Quote and Multi-quotes" function is not working properly. Anyone else having this problem?

Juicyjellybean (hilarious name, btw), you are correct that it takes more than 'peer pressure' for someone to cheat...it takes that peson willfully and intentionally doing it. Nobody makes someone else cheat. A gun is never held to the cheater's head. So regardless of things at home, how good or bad your treat your spouse, whether someone has 'toxic friends' or not, it comes down to a choice. And if someone decides to go through with it or not--the blame is solely with them. 



morituri said:


> These probably will be the ones having sex with married women.


Yeah it's like Entropy said--it's not gender-specific. So women who go around saying "If only you kept your man satisfied, then he wouldn't run off me with/her/whoever" ascribe to this way of thinking. It's silly.



cheatinghubby said:


> Is she one of the girl in that group?


Doubtful. But how weird would it be that one of the 8 of 9 women at Whip's hotel saw this post and went up and told him, "I know you're talking about me."



that_girl said:


> LOL I feel bad now because a friend and I want to go to Liverpool, UK together (huge beatles nuts) and we are planning to go in 2014.


Be careful, TG. Some people may automatically assume you are planning this trip to cheat on your husband. 



Shaggy said:


> I'm very surprised by a couple of posters here that are coming down hard on whip for being against theses women cheating. These posters almost sound like they are defending cheating! If so boy are you in the wrong place, the rest of us have a non negotiable hated of cheating here.


I don't think anyone posted here to defend cheating.

If anyone's spouse has "toxic friends" they should talk directly with their spouse about it so as not to create problems in their marriage.

It's not a new concept that men and women go on all guys' trip or all girls' trips and there may be some that cheat. Pretty sure that's been happening since the beginning of...well since forever. That's why people should have good boundaries and eliminate "toxic friends." and prevent cheating from happening (i.e. don't cheat).


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Lost in my rambling was my intent: if anyone hat read this had a spouse with toxic friends, on any issue and not just infidelity, they need to cut them out. I saw first-hand how toxic friends work. And to the others, no one kept tabs, we saw them out in the city. I was genuinely shocked by how much these women fed eachother concerning cheating. And by no means was this a gender issue, it works with men also. Just used what I saw as an example.

I tried to wrap my mind around it, but I realized I couldnt. You can rationalize a cheaters behavior. Fortunately I didn't see out again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I never understood cheating but I understand laughing at your spouses pain even less.
> I also never understand separate vacations. Why would anybody do this? Is this common as I don't know anybody who ever did/does this?
> I know if my husband came home one day and said he was going to Hawaii without me, my next appointment would be with a lawyer.


Where I work, lots of wives have to vacation alone due to husband's work schedule. 

I get 6 weeks of vacation each year, and about half are without my wife. But neither of us would dream of vacationing with groups of friends, unless it is a child-themed vacation. My wife gets really bad stress migraines in certain conditions, so she can't participate in some of the types of vacations we want to do with the kids, or with family and friends. I usually take the kids alone, or with friends who take their kids. At DC, I recently (last summer) stayed in a suite with my kids, and there were multiple groups of women with kids, and while being approached boosts the ego, I assumed that I was probably the only old fashioned guy who would want to call their husbands and tell them that their wife asked me if I wanted to go out for a drink.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Toxic 'friends' hate good marriages and often work to undermine them by not only being enablers but by encouraging infidelity. A sex starved, faithful husband who starts hanging around male 'friends' who are unfaithful husbands, will increase his chances of one day cheating on his wife. The same with an attention or affection starved, faithful wife who frequently socializes with unfaithful wives, will probably one day cheat on her husband. Just recently there was a wife who had extra-marital sex 6 times with another man after her girlfriend encouraged her to a threesome that included that man. While she is solely responsible for choosing to cheat on her husband, it can be argued that if the 'friend' had not encouraged her to cheat, that she would not have done so. Remember the old infamous cheaters saying? 'What s/he doesn't know won't hurt her/him'? It is still a very powerful and manipulative tool used to seduce a normally faithful but vulnerable spouse.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Luckily I don't have toxic friends.

I am rethinking my trip to Liverpool...but...my friend and I have been planning this for years! lol....We just want to go and see where the Beatles breathed LOL We've just been waiting until the kids were old enough to leave for 2 weeks with grandparents.

Guess I'll bring the hubs too  She can bring hers as well. They won't understand our stupidness and trivia and beatlemania, but they can hang out at the pubs LOL!


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## Open4it (Sep 1, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Did he hit a nerve?


Not at all.


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## Open4it (Sep 1, 2011)

Open4it said:


> Do I agree with this kind of behaviour for myself? A big, fat NO.


I guess everyone missed this part.


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## Open4it (Sep 1, 2011)

Whip Morgan said:


> Lost in my rambling was my intent: if anyone hat read this had a spouse with toxic friends, on any issue and not just infidelity, they need to cut them out. I saw first-hand how toxic friends work. And to the others, no one kept tabs, we saw them out in the city. I was genuinely shocked by how much these women fed eachother concerning cheating. And by no means was this a gender issue, it works with men also. Just used what I saw as an example.
> 
> I tried to wrap my mind around it, but I realized I couldnt. You can rationalize a cheaters behavior. Fortunately I didn't see out again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with you, Whip.
Toxic friends are toxic for the relationship.

"A company is known by the people it employs."


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## Romeo_Holden (Sep 17, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> The women he's talking about are not his wife's friends. They are guests at a hotel he works at. His marriage and the women he's talking about are two totally different subjects. How is telling another poster ' I bet you cheat too' helpful or useful? Nice way to vent and missplace your anger.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Read the story again and then read the comment, there was no anger in the statement simple truth


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

Whip - wow, absolutely disgusting what those ladies (sic) were doing. Encouraging and high-fiving for banging random a**holes is about as low as it gets for me. If they did cheat but kept it from their girlfriends, at least it shows they know what they're doing is wrong...but when it's a "game" they can all laugh over while they put notches on their bedposts just shows they are as heartless as they come. 

Perhaps some of us could fly out and pretend to hit on them, get their info and then rent billboards in their home towns, showing a compromising picture from the bar? Ahhh, man. Not serious, but it just makes me so mad.

I wish I had the foresight to cut out some toxic friends from my W's work life, as you pretty much described my worst nightmares and imagery of what she may have been acting like on the road, in hotel bars, particularly when she went to Vegas. Made me twitch to think about. I'm guessing she was the one acting "shy" about what the others were doing, for a while...but how many trips later...eventually it became acceptable for her to be in the "cool kids club" as they probably saw themselves...

Makes me sick.


Thanks for posting the potential reality of such things though...wonder how long it'll be before I can trust again.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

> Be careful, TG. Some people may automatically assume you are planning this trip to cheat on your husband.


Yea. Heavy planning!! In three years! lollll My friend and I have been planning this since before we met our husbands haha


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

morituri said:


> Toxic 'friends' hate good marriages and often work to undermine them by not only being enablers but by encouraging infidelity.


Morituri, 

You once again bring great incite to a subject.

I share your same point of view. It's almost as if these "toxic friends" don't even comprehend why you wouldn't cheat....they regard their husbands as nothing more than the person they share the house and kids with.

I think there is an underlying feeling of envy that pushes these people to help sabotage a marriage. They sink their teeth in and begin to shred, constantly wedging themselves in between the husband and wife.

I think this happens at a subconsciousness level, they don't even know that it's wrong.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I don't know if it's "toxic friends" if everyone is doing it in the group. 

I just think people who do wrong things like being with other people who do wrong things...that way they have less guilt and they also have something on the other person.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

At work today I spotted one of the women there, speaking to her OM. Ugh. This prompted a somewhat intense discussion on adultery and relationships. I got so worked up I had to walk away. Partially my fault - I tried phrasing things I've learned on TAM in a way that my co-workers should have understood. Alas, they either didn't or tried to tell me how I was wrong. Whatever. I had given to much room in my mind to these women, thinking about how awful they were. It got me angry, then the ridiculous conversation with my co-workers - infuriating.

Walking away was the right thing to do. My friend explaining why people cheat. Stupidly, he stated that if we "asked this woman, this is what she would say". I realized I had to walk away after my friends couldn't understand the idea that if a cheater will lie to his/her spouse, that cheater will lie to ANYONE. Now I'm at home before the Patriots-Chargers game, unwinding listening to Duran Duran. 

On the other hand, I hope everyone will be a good friend to BrightEyes today. She'll need consolation after the Patriots smoke the Chargers. AND the Lions are winning - my second favorite team. A decent way to end the day after a frustrating experience.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Duran Duran! :thumbup:


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Whip.
That truely sucks to see the reality of how things in this world are screwed up.

I take peace in the fact the Charges will beat the Pats. and the world will seem to be a better place.....atleast for this Sunday.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

yeah Guy, to see it in my face, and so many at once. Disturbing. 

Ahhh...Kickoff. Guy, I look forward to rubbing the upcoming Charger defeat in you and BrightEyes' faces.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Romeo_Holden said:


> Read the story again and then read the comment, there was no anger in the statement simple truth


I read both and still don't see how your comment "I bet you cheat too" was helpful or useful. 

TG--the Beatles trip sounds fun!


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Not to get on you whip or the other posters even on this thread, but what if it had been a group of 9 husbands giving each other high fives and such over their sexual conquests. How would you have felt then?

This is kind of like some of these questions,

Male school teacher sleeps with underage girl, pervert, sick b**tard, string him up.

Female school teacher sleeps with underage boy, was she hot, lucky guy, etc...

2 girls together doing the nasty, nice, drools, sweet.

2 guys together doing the nasty, throwing up, closes eyes, picture seered into brain need to melt by brain away to get rid of it

Guy cheats on wife, give him another chance he screwed up.

Girl cheats on husband, kick her to the curb, she's a wh***.

I know that these are generalizations but they hold up alot and I've heard them alot through the years.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

that_girl said:


> LOL I feel bad now because a friend and I want to go to Liverpool, UK together (huge beatles nuts) and we are planning to go in 2014.


Sounds great. My wife has gone on a trip or two with her BFF. She does not go to Vegas for one thing, but sure she has had plenty of freedom in our marriage. I do not think unreasonably so. She is not a partier and neither is her BFF. They both have good character. In no way is her BFF a toxic friend. I see it as risk versus reward. Often my wife has gone on short trips with my adult daughter. If they would get out of hand they would both have hell to pay.  I see her trips as marriage friendly and I am also happy with her boundaries. They are also not that often. Our prioritiy is our time together.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I never understood cheating but I understand laughing at your spouses pain even less.
> I also never understand separate vacations. Why would anybody do this? Is this common as I don't know anybody who ever did/does this?
> *I know if my husband came home one day and said he was going to Hawaii without me, my next appointment would be with a lawyer*.


LOL. No joke. I would not want to take a true vacation without my wife. 

Some guys go to spring training camps or car racing camps. Spouses going to Vegas separately. NFW.

I have heard of folks doing this. I don't get it either. I can see a trip for a specific purpose where the other spouse may have to work. i.e. some event. A family reunion perhaps. I would love to see Le Mans in person. I would definitely bring my wife however.

My wife and daughter went on a cruise. Yeah they can be dangerous for sure. But the context of the crusie was ok with me. i.e. my daughter is a teacher and had organized the trip. My wife got to go along as a chaperone. Later that year I took my wife on another cruise, just the two of us. I confess I would not have not been so willing about this if the context were different. Next time I would go along no matter what.  Why? My priorities are better these days.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Luckily I don't have toxic friends.
> 
> I am rethinking my trip to Liverpool...but...my friend and I have been planning this for years! lol....We just want to go and see where the Beatles breathed LOL We've just been waiting until the kids were old enough to leave for 2 weeks with grandparents.
> 
> *Guess I'll bring the hubs too  She can bring hers as well. They won't understand our stupidness and trivia and beatlemania, but they can hang out at the pubs LOL!*


We have a WINNER!!!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Let the rubbing begain  dam those Bolts

Back to topic,
Having worked out of town on occasion, and being in the constrution biz. I'm placed in lower end motels and it is disturbing to get off work and check in and seeing a man and a women in two different vehicales either go into or leaving a room.

Before my experience I would have never noticed, but since confronting my WW I sometime see a behavior from motel guests that surely indicates cheating.

I mean, come on why would a couple leave the room at 3 or 4 PM and the both there cars are not seen for the rest of the evening, or for that matter never again. 

The point is, I only witness this on rare occasions, I can't imagine having to see this on a regular bases, day in and day out, when one works in the hotel biz.... 

In some way its like when I work/remodel on a prison its can be very depressing to build there. Where on the other hand when I work/remodel an elementry school, it very rewarding knowing your doing improvements for the kids to have a better classroom.

I can see and related to Whip and the disturbing behaviors he has to witness through out his work day.

Thanks for the warning Whip.....


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

I don't think the problem is seperate vacations but the type of vacation. I wouldn't have a problem with my vacation to her home town for a week without me or the kids. But a trip to the islands or vegas with 3 or 4 friends is not something I would be down with. I know things can happen anywhere but I live by the rule of not putting ourselves in bad situations.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Kobo said:


> I don't think the problem is seperate vacations but the type of vacation. I wouldn't have a problem with my vacation to her home town for a week without me or the kids. But a trip to the islands or vegas with 3 or 4 friends is not something I would be down with. I know things can happen anywhere but I live by the rule of not putting ourselves in bad situations.


:iagree:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

In high school I worked in a hotel and would see married men and married women alike very obviously cheating. We had a recurring guest who stayed for two weeks at a time & had prostitutes on hand all the time. You could tell they were pros right off the bat. Like another poster said, plenty of men do these all-dude vacations where the same thing goes down. It's not gender-specific. 

In this case, they are guests in a hotel where the OP works at. When you work at a hotel, you are aware of all kinds of things going on with the guests. That is part of the job. It should not effect your home life unless it's happening in your home life/marriage. 

If you don't agree with these types of things, don't hang out with these kind of people--don't associate with these type of people who do these vacations where cheating is rampant.

People are going to do whatever they want whether you agree with them or not. 

Such is life.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Once again... I'm using what happened as an example. It just so happens hey were all women. Look back to my orgi al post, in my rambling, the warning I gave to anyone unsure about toxic friends said : SPOUSE.

I'm against cheating, man or woman. I have seen both genders do it, I think it all sucks. But the sheer amount of cheating spouses last week genuinely shocked me. Coworkers did t understand why I was upset. This group happened to be women, I'd feel the same disgust if it were men.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

hey Guy, remember when I said that you and Mrs Guy could have quality time by wipin up your tears? How did the night go? 

GO PATS
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

She wiped up more then tears, so all in all I was comforted,

Damb Bolts


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Damn Guy, nice comeback. Alas, I was without the company of a lady lastnight...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I would think in you line of work it would be relativly easy to score
LOL

What an ughly thought, sorry

Theres alot of evil out there, stay as far away as possible.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Well, it is common in hospitality. Access is certainly there, the setting is right. It happens often enough, both male and female guests. Lots of times its a spouse picking someone up at a local bar and bringing them back. I've had opportunities, but the ladies were...not so appealing. Haven't worked nights in years, so my options are limited.

But once I see the wedding ring, either at work or at a bar, its game over and time to walk away. But I'm still a guy, so if I have a semi-attractive woman hitting on me, I'm open. Of course, rules do exist, but are often broken. Hard to enforce a rule when all levels of employees are involved. 

Co-workers could not grasp why I had no desire to meet these women out in the city. Total turn-off for me. Which was too bad, the ONE single woman in the group was tall and curvy- just my type. But that sickening attitude these women had, the way they carried themselves in what they were doing, totally turned me off.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Whip you are a man of honor and integrity. The lady you will one day choose to be your companion for life will be a very lucky woman.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Whip Morgan said:


> Co-workers could not grasp why I had no desire to meet these women out in the city.


Um, because you're married?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

taken from Sham's divorce thread due to relevence



Shamwow said:


> I will say this...talking with OMW about some details she was asking about from the text logs, I noticed how many people in my W's work circle were made aware of this infatuation before it was actually consummated.
> 
> Whip Morgan has a thread about "cheater's clubs" of people he's witnessed at hotels, and how they all encouraged each other to cheat while on vacation from their spouses. Tagues. They knew she was trying to make it happen. Many encouraged her, telling her to put her happiness first, even said "him? That's awesome!!!". Men and women, single and married. They call this kind of thing RFB (road **** buddies) or road fever. Makes me nauseous, as I've been out with most of these people many times in the last year or two as a group. That they could be so shallow and push her toward this, not only knowing she was married, as was OM...but also knowing ME...it's sickening. Only one of them that I know of said "hey, you're both adults, you make your own decisions, and you both know the consequences, so you have to do what makes you happy." But he's also the one that said the "awesome" quote from above. Toxic friends...
> 
> ...


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

I had a few bits to say to my ex wifes friends:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/30045-message-single-friends-marrieds.html


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Um, because you're married?


He's single Jelly.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh I see. Well either way, he shouldn't go out with people he detests. Especially not clients/guests at his hotel.


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