# Should I be worried?



## Layla83 (Sep 21, 2011)

My husband of 10 years had an affair about 2 years ago. After lots of fighting and outbursts, we (he) overcome this and we are still together. The women he had an affair with moved 6 hours away to their head office. He goes there about two weeks out of month. I don't ask any questions and have let it go mentally. I cannot control it so why worry. 

Now back home, he goes to a bar where a couple works and the wife and my husband has been friends for over 30 years. This is his hometown and we moved back here 2 years ago. Her name comes up often but it makes me feel as uncomfortable as the name of the lady he had the affair with. 

Now ofcourse this could just be my insecurities from the previous affair but last night something made me feel more insecure. We were at a party together and this women tells me that I have nothing to worry about. She loves my husband but there is nothing going on. I did not ask her anything, nor did I discuss my insecurities with my husband. Why did she have the need to convince me of the innocence of their friendship? Then another bar goer chimed in and said I should be worried because once my husband gets to the bar, he and this women ignore everyone else. 

I want to ask him about it but it might seem like I don't trust him again. I cannot really trust my gut because I am very fragile and insecure because he has cheated before. Asking him about it might just add more trouble to our marriage. 

I really could use some wise advise.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Yes, I can see how you would think that there might be something up, 

1. she may realise they seem to be spending a lot of time together, people talk etc so she genuinely wants to put your mind at ease

2. there is something going on and she want to throw you off the scent. However, wouldn't her husband also be wondering if there was.


The fact that he has cheated before and you are still with him, it not good because it was probably rug swept. Did you do any MC etc the last time? Further, the fact he is spending time with another female after what he did shows he does not respect or care about your feelings, he should be avoiding these scenarios if he did.

I suggest, you say nothing for the moment, keep your mouth shut, eyes wide open. Do NOT confront as you lose the advantage without evidence, many of us do this because of emotions and it is a big mistake!

You are relatively new there (2 years) so see who your friends and enemies are. Let one or two (non gossipy type) friends keep their eyes open too for you, you will need someone to talk to as you will have to play cool in front of your WH. I would also try and befriend the OW's H to see if you get any vibes from him.

Go through the standard evidence procedures here, Var etc (a VAR may be useful because if the want to talk privately etc it will be in their cars or when phone each other from their cars).

You say you are fragile now but you have to be strong, put on a brave front and follow through with the sleuthing.

Do you have kids?

You have to also consider is it worth living with a man whom you cannot trust (I am in that position), if you have to spend your life looking over your shoulder, then why stay married, find someone who is worthy of your trust and time.


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## Layla83 (Sep 21, 2011)

Thank you for this important reply. I needed to hear all of that. I was getting ready to confront him tonight and let him have it. This is the second time after the affair that a woman has said such things to me. It might be innocent as he has a lot of childhood friends here. Female friends that is. 

We did no marriage counselling after the affair. It was about 6 months of an emotional rollercoaster for our marriage. He even travelled for work twice after the affair came out with his mistress. He's excuse was that it is for work and he had no choice. I had to ask no questions because then it was said that I should trust him. In fact the first time they travelled alone together was about 2 months after I found out. I was still so raw but also weak for letting it happen. 

That is why I think I am so insecure that I wait for anything, something to go wrong. Is it worth it? Well not every day these days are bad. He is mostly home for 3 days a week because of travelling for work. Maybe because I haven't dealt with the initial affair I will forever think something is up. 

The place where he is spending time with her is at the bar. Her husband owns the bar and he seems rather cool with my husband so I don't think he suspects a thing. Maybe there is nothing to suspect then. 

Thank you for telling me to keep my mouth shut and my eyes open because I know telling him tonight might cause an unnecessary fight and that does not help anyone. 

We have 2 kids under 10 so that is my motivation to stay with him. I know this is going to sound so stupid but I am willing to sacrifice my happiness for their stability. Crazy I know but that is how I feel. I suppose if I find out about another affair that would be... I don't even know. 

When he had the affair, I was at home being a stay at home mom. Now I have a good job, getting my degree part time so I have in a way started preparing myself to be self reliant. 

I don't think I have the guts to install a VAR in his car. I'd be too scared that he finds it. I know they are whatsapp friends as well and this is the same way his other affair started. Friendship, time together, chatting and one too many beers. 

I guess I'm just so scared of what will happen to our family if this happens again.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Layla, the responsibility for cheating lies firmly on your WH's shoulders not yours, it is not your respobsibility to keep the marriage together. You should have demanded no contact with this OW in the first place, for him to travel with her is beyond insensitive to your feelings, your WH lacks respect for you and is taking this all lightly, do not let him away with this the second time.

And no, he has no right to say you should trust him, trust has already been broken, it is up to him to earn the trust, be open with all his mails, mobile, social media, etc you are not supposed to accept him at his word, he already broke trust and has not earned it back!

You should have demanded counselling then, you could still demand it now as the original affair seems to have been completely rug swept with your WH calling the shots, the BS (i.e you) should be calling the shots and deciding whether you want to stay in the marriage or not!

I am not telling you to keep your mouth shut and eyes open to avoid a fight ( i think your WH needs a good kicking tbh!) I am saying this as you do not have evidence, you will be upset, he will get angry, say you are crazy etc, all the standard stuff. You have to ensure you have solid evidence so put that emotional energy into watching him, be nice as pie, but have an internal resolve of steel and do not for one minute be taken in by his charm, his words, cheaters lie and are good with words.

Glad to hear you are becoming financially self reliant, that helps your own self-esteem as it seems the last A really took that away from you, further you will be able to leave if you want to.

I can understand the staying for the kids, did the same myself and I am glad I did, now they are grown up I am not so inclined to be the sweet wife and will walk when the time is right if I don't get honesty. You have a long way to go and that is your choice, but you don't have to take it lying down, if you come on TAM and follow their advice you will be in a much better position ( I wish I had found this site before I did as there are a lot of things I would have done differently).

Do you have a brother or close friend who would help you out with the VAR. Another consideration is a PI to follow him, or a good friend in a different car. 
You have to stop being scared, this is your family that your WH and some OW is messing with, you need to find your righteous anger and be the mama lioness who is not going to let them mess with her cubs, you need to find your resolve now, you are doing this for your kids, stop worrying about what your WH thinks, you have nothing to be scared off he is the one who has messed up in the past and maybe even now, stop being the victim and be prepared to kick butt, what is the worst that can happen?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Layla83 said:


> The women he had an affair with moved 6 hours away to their head office. He goes there about two weeks out of month. I don't ask any questions and have let it go mentally.* I cannot control it so why worry. *
> 
> She loves my husband but there is nothing going on. Why did she have the need to convince me of the innocence of their friendship? Then another bar goer chimed in and said I should be worried because once my husband gets to the bar, he and this women ignore everyone else.
> 
> ...


Layla,

You may not be able to control what your husband does, but you most certainly can control what you accept from him.

And you are accepting two things from him that you shouldn't.

1 - Him continuing to work with this OW. He quits the job, or arranges it where he no longer works with her - or - you file for divorce.

2 - He stops any and all contact with this other local woman - or - you file for divorce.

It's a very simple solution for a husband that has already cheated once. You just have to respect yourself enough to implement it.


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## Layla83 (Sep 21, 2011)

I am so grateful for each and every reply. I suppose I've always been a bit of a doormat in this marriage and he has gotten away from the biggest sin with little consequences.
He never really explained much about the A and all I know is what I heard elsewhere. 

Would it be crazy to bring it up after 2 years though? I guess I just need to learn to stop being so scared of him. There is a 13 year gap in age and I think this is our communication problem. He is also very manipulative and narcissistic. I'm sure you're thinking why do I stay then? I don't know. I think it's the safe option to just stay? 
He's not horrible, but he's not a saint either. 
You all seem so strong... I hope I find my strength also. 
I did not bring the subject up tonight so I will first gather more evidence. 
I don't have any family or friends here that I can trust to do anything for me. Hardly anyone knows about he's A and the people who know didn't tell him they know. 
As I'm writing this I realise my heart is far from healing from the A and until I do that, this marriage will always be a pretend act.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Layla83 said:


> Would it be crazy to bring it up after 2 years though?


Part of the responsibility of a WS is to accept consequences for cheating on their spouse. That demonstrates remorse. The no contact with both of these women is part of those consequences. It's SOP and it shouldn't be negotiable.

Newly betrayed spouses often make mistakes in giving those consequences. That's understandable. But not giving them will likely lead to a false R, and increase the chances of the WS cheating again.

So, you're not "bringing it up after two years". You're correcting what should have been done in the first place. As another poster suggested; you need to find your anger and use it to fuel your resolve.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Layla83 said:


> I did not bring the subject up tonight so I will first gather more evidence.


One other thing Layla,

It's obvious you rug swept his A, so it's little wonder that now he feels entitled. You can change that. If you don't want a pretend marriage (false R), you have to test his remorse. You have to be willing to end your marriage to have the best chance of saving it. 

And, you don't need any more evidence about this local woman to insist on no contact. The fact that she told you she loves him is all you needed to hear. However, if you want to try to find a smoking gun for a 2nd affair - that I can understand. But, I wouldn't let this contact go on for more that a couple of weeks while you look.


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## Layla83 (Sep 21, 2011)

I think you nailed it. I am scared to give him an ultimatum because I'm scared ge might say cool I'm out. I've done it before when he's friends were saying inappropriate things to me in the beginning of our marriage. I told him to leave those friends or im out... and he told me there's no way... i obviously stayed.. I'm learning so much of what I did was wrong. I even slept with him the day I found out and it only hit me the day after. So many mistakes so many.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Based on my experience, if he is constantly talking about his female friend, he is not sleeping with her. If he suddenly clams up and stops talking about her, then I would be worried.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Layla83 said:


> I'm learning so much of what I did was wrong. I even slept with him the day I found out and it only hit me the day after. So many mistakes so many.


I made a lot of mistakes also Layla. I found TAM too late or I would not have made them (at least I'd like to think). But I corrected those that I could - after almost a year in R. You can too.


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## November (Nov 28, 2013)

Layla83,

The advice you've gotten is pretty good. 

Agreed, he must be remorseful with the affair, and NEVER see the OW again. You need to get that totally behind and solved, and learn to trust all over again, and it will take time.

As for the "new" woman, any contact with her alone, or at a bar with them together is inappropriate. It's one of the basics of boundaries. You just don't spend time with a member of the opposite sex, alone or bar or in a one on one situation. Just does't work well.

And because she approached you with a "don't worry, but I love him" is a HUGE red flag. You need to insist on staying away from this woman, and letting her husband know what's going on.

And, yes, you need to fight for this and be willing to accept the consequences if it doesn't work. Hopefully he will see the light and put more into his marriage and you.


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## Layla83 (Sep 21, 2011)

I actually experienced the opposite even with his A. Her name came up in idle chit chat all the time. That was actually my first clue.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

If he's truly narsisstic and unfaithful - I'm afraid you've probably been conditioned to accept his BS or live in fear of unknown "consequences". If this is him, he has little conscience so will change his message constantly to continue to keep you under control and doubt yourself.

Do look for evidence but expect him to deny and blame and confuse.

Accept that change will only come if you get your own wits together, make a sound and rational plan, and stick to it while completely ignoring him.

Be ware that narcissists are evil in breakups and will hound you and make you miserable. You MUST have a ruthless attorney who will handle ALL matters with H when that time comes.

It's possible he's "only partially narcissistic" but expect the worse and be happy if you are lucky enough that it does not happen.

Seek counseling - I would contact a battered women's support group - they can help you get help without raising his ire. Even if you feel you aren't battered - wouldn't it be nice to be their easy case for the day? They will understand the importance of being discrete while you work this out.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

My thoughts:

1. My hunch is that you probably don't have to worry about the woman at the bar in particular. In my experience, women who take that proactive approach by telling another woman she doesn't need to worry about her, is usually being honest, but that's just me.

2. I think a bigger concern is that your husband seems to be willing to develop close friendships with other women, even the "completely innocent" variety. The problem with this is, a married man shouldn't develop close friendships with other women, or vice versa with a married woman and another man. He shouldn't put himself in a situation where anyone else (or you) could even speculate that there could be something illicit going on. So he shouldn't be alone with her, especially in a social situation. Again this isn't horribly egregious, it doesn't mean he's done anything terribly wrong, but I think it's a rule married people should live by.

3. I don't think you fully healed from the initial A two years ago, and I don't blame you for being worried about it. In an affair, the guilty spouse should have exactly zero contact with the affair partner going forward, and ESPECIALLY no alone time together, if they want to save the marriage. If they are co-workers, as they are in this case, that usually should mean that the spouse should make every effort to find a new job as soon as possible in order to permit no contact. He travels out of town to work/stay overnight in her town for two weeks a month? Again that doesn't conclusively mean that he is doing anything wrong with her, but easily giving him the way and means to cross that line, when he's already done so in the past, is just ASKING for trouble.

4. As far as advice, you're right, it's been two years now so it might be tough to bring all of this up now. Instead, I would make the case to him that YOU are now struggling with processing all of this two years later, and that you now need some help from a counselor and want to get both of you in to see a marriage therapist. Make it about you needing help, rather than you placing blame on him or accusing him of something, and he'll probably be far more understanding and willing to participate. From there, bring up whatever you need to bring up.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

I would continue to prepare to take care of yourself and the kids. As in finish your degree.

Do not let fear of the future or the dreaded "what if" freeze you into inaction.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Layla83 said:


> Thank you for this important reply. I needed to hear all of that. I was getting ready to confront him tonight and let him have it. This is the second time after the affair that a woman has said such things to me. It might be innocent as he has a lot of childhood friends here. Female friends that is.
> 
> We did no marriage counselling after the affair. It was about 6 months of an emotional rollercoaster for our marriage. He even travelled for work twice after the affair came out with his mistress. He's excuse was that it is for work and he had no choice. I had to ask no questions because then it was said that I should trust him. In fact the first time they travelled alone together was about 2 months after I found out. I was still so raw but also weak for letting it happen.
> 
> ...


Look, married men or women do not have close friendships with the opposite sex. It's called boundaries. Something may not happen but it could. If you have boundaries it can't/won't. You should also have full transparency in a marriage. You have all his access he has all yours. 

Set his azz down and say this is my access and I need yours. Period.
Your his wife, a full partnership. Equal. Nothing less. 

You have every right to be concerned. This is your life. Not anyone else's. You need to protect it the best you can. Being a doormat will get you nowhere. He's your husband not someone else's. Not saying you should be a control freak but you should be concerned. He owns that past issue of the affair and if he was smart he'd spend time working on his marriage not some woman at a bar. As for her husband don't count on him being that bright.

Definitely continue with your degree. I'd ramp it up. Your life is going to be what you make it. 

Good luck to you.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Layla83

You are still affected by the first affair because it was rug swept. Your husband should have quit his job to go no contact with the affair partner. Then he travels with his affair partner and tells you that you should trust him. I love when a cheater says that! That was your opportunity to basically cut his legs off so his scrogum drags on the floor! But that has come and gone. 

Now you are feeling the pain from the first affair because of his current actions. So you need to decide, investigate or grab your machete and cut him down to size. Personally I think he is at least having an EA, and your pain will now intensify. 

This is what I would do, you decide what you NEED to do. I would confront at the bar, catching them together. Tell him trust is now gone as you have found him with another woman. Tell him he explain his first affair in detail or you will go in person to HR informing them of the affair. Tell them you have consulted an attorney regarding sexual harassment since she was his boss. 

You need to work through the first affair, and he does not say HOW this process is run. You are in charge, you need to heal, and it goes by your way and your timetable. If he balks at any little thing you contact an attorney and file for divorce. Remind him you will file for adultery and lost his affair partner isn't he divorce. It will then come out in court and be public record. 

Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## razze (Nov 26, 2015)

He had the first affair because he doesn't respect you or love you (enough).

Nothing has changed other than he got away with it at least once.

It's not looking good that there will not be another repeat- if it's not already happening.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

OP, you took the first step in focusing on yourself. You got a good job and could be financially independent. Yes, 13 year gap is a huge gap. Is he the older one? You also mentioned that you have children. Having children can complicate your situation.

You have not addressed the first affair. It was rugswept. You should go into marriage counselling. He still goes to a bar where you live, instead of going home. He should be spending this time with you instead of a female friend. 

This female friend of your husband told you that you have nothing to worry about between your husband and her. She knows that their relationship is wrong. That is, because she is robbing you of the valuable time that your husband should spend with you. This is a red flag.

You are worried of the emotional bond that he has with his female friend. If I'm in your shoes, I would go to the bar incognito. Buy a wig, change of clothes, and makeup and take a friend that he is not acquainted with and observe their interaction from a distance. Do not confront. See for yourself their body language. This would tell you what type of relationship they have.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Layla83 said:


> Now ofcourse this could just be my insecurities from the previous affair but last night something made me feel more insecure. We were at a party together and this women tells me that I have nothing to worry about. She loves my husband but there is nothing going on. I did not ask her anything, nor did I discuss my insecurities with my husband. Why did she have the need to convince me of the innocence of their friendship? Then another bar goer chimed in and said I should be worried because once my husband gets to the bar, he and this women ignore everyone else.


 First, the issue is not your "insecurities". The issue is his lack or respect for you and normal marital boundaries. Like all cheaters without remorse, your husband has sold you on the false premise that the issues with your marriage are on you, rather than accepting responsible for what he has done and continues to do. Second, having another woman say to you that "their is nothing going on" with your husband and her without any prompting by you, means that something happened and she is afraid that you will hear about it. Another bar goer telling you that you "should be worried" only confirms this. There is nothing normal about this. Something is going on. With your husband getting away with a recent affair with no consequences, such that he is still travelling alone his with affair partner and regularly travelling out of town to the office that she works at, I am not surprised by his continued disregard for your marriage.

Look, you know for sure that he has recently been cheating on you; when it comes to affairs 2 years is regarded as recent. You still have a right to discuss what happened and to be hurt by it. You still have a right to demand consequences like full no contact (NC) with his affair partner (even if it means changing jobs), full transparency which would include access and all passwords without complaint, and marital boundaries against having opposite sex friends (OSF) that feel the need to tell you that they are not cheating on you with your husband.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach when I read stories like yours, Layla. I'm so sorry.

But.....you have allowed yourself to believe and act like you are grateful for the crumbs that your WH will throw your way. You are already on your way to independence, and that is a very important step.

Stop accepting his condescension, arrogance, and cake-eating. Tell yourself that you deserve far better. Certainly, you deserve the truth, which you have absolutely not gotten.

How can you make decisions about your life if you don't have the necessary information about what is actually occurring in it?

I recommend that you do some digging and also institute the 180 to help you build strength and confidence. You'd be amazed what the 180 can do to help you find your voice and your pride.

Your WH treats you with disrespect and you need to stop accepting it.

Best of luck!


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