# Was I right to make this an issue? Wife and physical "flick"



## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

Wife has got a habit of doing this. We've had MANY arguments in the past where I've told her to stop doing it because its not on.

She will "flick" me when shes irritated about something. Not hard but still I don't think its on.

Today she was in a foul mood for some reason. Kids were in the car and taking and I didn't hear so she flicked me. I just know it was more of an irritated flick that I hadn't answered.

But yes I did go off on one a bit. Not too bad but I probably shouldn't have with the kids in the car. I do get a bit angry sometimes.

Afterwards shes going nuts saying I verbally abused her - I didnt. She will not accept that its not cool to irritatingly flick me like that and that it was nothing and its all my fault for kicking off about it.

I tried to explain to her that if I flicked her like that she would explode and she would. But she just can't see it. Surely this is wrong - if a guy did this to his wife thats how it all starts - "it was only a flick etc".

I have apologised for going a bit overboard but I still stand by that she can't do this. But of course Im all wrong now for what I did.

Comments?


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

*Re: Was I right to make this an issue?*

Further explain flick. To me flick is sort of a light smack. If thats what you mean i wouldnt be too happy with that either. But you have told her it bothers you and she doesnt seem to respect your boundries I would flick her right back she how she likes it.


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## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

*Re: Was I right to make this an issue?*



richie33 said:


> Further explain flick. To me flick is sort of a light smack. If thats what you mean i wouldnt be too happy with that either. But you have told her it bothers you and she doesnt seem to respect your boundries I would flick her right back she how she likes it.


Yes a light smack. Nothing that would hurt and she says she did it just to get my attention. 

BUT, I know it was an irritated sort of reason behind it which is why I have an issue with it.

Realistically, I cant escalate it and flick her back with kids in the car can I?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

"I am not okay with flicking. I am sorry that I smacked you back and wont do it again. We can accept each others boundaries or not. I will be waiting for your answer."

Any further attempts to debate it need to have a simple answer from you.

"I see it differently."

Don't explain anything to her more than once. She heard you are not okay with it. The more you reiterate it, the more it waters down how important that message is and the greater her chances of working you back to acceptance.

Why do you allow it?


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## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> "I am not okay with flicking. I am sorry that I smacked you back and wont do it again. We can accept each others boundaries or not. I will be waiting for your answer."
> 
> Any further attempts to debate it need to have a simple answer from you.
> 
> ...


Some good points here...


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

She called your anger verbal abuse. Tell her flicking is physical abuse. If you can't reason her out of it, escalate: call 911 next time she does, and file a domestic violence complaint. It may seem like an insignificant thing to go to such extremes, but if that's what it takes, the message will be very, very clear to her then.

If you want to try lesser measures first, then whenever she does this, leave the room and do not talk to her until she apologizes. Shun her - it can be effective.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Yeah, she's using that flick as corporeal punishment. It's physical abuse. If you've asked her to stop and she won't, it also demonstrates she lacks respect for you. She does it when she wants your attention, because it works.

So stop making it effective for that purpose. The answer is not to escalate but to de-escalate. Every time she flicks you, get up and walk away. Don't react, don't say anything, just get up and walk away. If you're driving the car, pull over and get out and catch a cab. If you're really trapped, just ignore her no matter how often she does it. Hopefully, she'll realize how ridiculous it is and stop on her own.


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## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> She called your anger verbal abuse. Tell her flicking is physical abuse. If you can't reason her out of it, escalate: call 911 next time she does, and file a domestic violence complaint. It may seem like an insignificant thing to go to such extremes, but if that's what it takes, the message will be very, very clear to her then.
> 
> If you want to try lesser measures first, then whenever she does this, leave the room and do not talk to her until she apologizes. Shun her - it can be effective.


Exactly. How on earth being angry about it is verbal abuse I'll never know. To be fair I wasnt that bad - I basically said it was not acceptable and that we'd have a problem unless it stopped. I also said she could go where she was going on her own because I wasnt coming today.

She took this as threatening her and abusing her in front of the kids. Nuts really.

To be honest, I'm glad I did kick off. Yeh in her head it was nothing but at least I got my point across.


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## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Yeah, she's using that flick as corporeal punishment. It's physical abuse. If you've asked her to stop and she won't, it also demonstrates she lacks respect for you. She does it when she wants your attention, because it works.
> 
> So stop making it effective for that purpose. The answer is not to escalate but to de-escalate. Every time she flicks you, get up and walk away. Don't react, don't say anything, just get up and walk away. If you're driving the car, pull over and get out and catch a cab. If you're really trapped, just ignore her no matter how often she does it. Hopefully, she'll realize how ridiculous it is and stop on her own.


Thing is it in her head its not because she was just getting my attention and I'm overreacting.

When we argued about it after she said I was being pathetic and that imagine sitting in front of a judge and saying my wife tapped me on the arm. That's the way she looks at it.

But then me having a go back in her hear is me trying to bully her and abuse her and that shes just sticking up for herself. Its just all wrong if you ask me. She says I should have calmly said hey dont do that - but from past experience I know I would not have had an apology it would have been don't be so stupid it was only a tap to get your attention. Or well don't do what you did and I would have had to flick you.

She doesn't comprehend that she started it and I'm just sticking up from myself.

I genuniely think shes mentally ill that she can't see this. My wife is the definition of gives it out but can't take it back. She can justify every little thing she does as right or deserved, but if I kick back I'm wrong and abusing here.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Ask her if she would mind if you:

1. Pulled her hair a little, or
2. Gave her a little pinch, or
3. Gave her a little flick

from now on when she isn't listening, or you are irritated with her. Let her choose which one she prefers.

*Of course don't do any of them,* but let it soak in to her head that she wouldn't like any physical retaliation from you.

After she thinks about your question, and gives her answer (of course that she doesn't want you to do any of them to her) tell her that she may not touch your body anymore unless it is in an affectionate way, and that the next time she flicks you, you will consider your options, since you will not tolerate disrespect and physical abuse.

The flick is a sign of disrespect. If you accept that, it will escalate.


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## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Ask her if she would mind if you:
> 
> 1. Pulled her hair a little, or
> 2. Gave her a little pinch, or
> ...


Yep tried to explain that. Her answer - no because it was only a tap to get your attention. But I know it was more than that - it was an irritated tap which is what got me going. She tends to do this - get days where everyone in the whole wide world seems to irriate her then in her head, its free rein to say what she likes. And she does.

The way she talks about it is scary. I can imagine it to be the way an abusive husband would start off - its nothing, you're overreacting, well dont do this and I wouldnt have to.

She just does not seem to understand. In her head its me overreacting.

Not defending her but she does have anxiety/depression problems. And long term stress related illness so things are not easy for her at the moment. I understand that but sometimes. In a way, after today, some of things going through her head just dont seem to be what a normal person would be like. I dont know maybe theres more to it.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Comes down to this. You sit her down and let her know that you don't like it, never have and never will and if she does it again it will be the last time she does it and let her figure out what you man by that. 

I don't understand it. Men are taught to never put their hands on a woman in anger no matter if it's a "Flick", a full blown ass kicking or anything in between and yet there's the unwritten rule that says that it's perfectly acceptable for a woman to have the right to resort to being "hands on" in anger and God help a guy if he defends himself or swings back.

I've been on the receiving end of my ex taking full advantage of that rule and a slap across the face hurts just as much to a mans face as it does to a woman's. All in all keep your hands to yourself and if it continues, then call the cops and press charges. It's a shame that it would have to come down to doing something like that but maybe it will be a lesson learned.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Stop explaining. Not only does it look weak, it IS weak. 

Tell her you are not okay with it. When she starts to rant to get you to explain (because she does have you clearly trained to do this whether you realize it or not), one simple question:

Are you done?

You don't owe her an explanation. "No" should be enough, correct? 

1. Stop thinking you owe her something.
2. Stop trying to control her opinion. 

Just freaking own your own. Got it?


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Next time pull over the car and have her walk home. A few miles of walking might give her the perspective she needs.


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## imtamnew (May 13, 2013)

I was going to suggest wear richie33 said but a little different.

If she knows how to drive. Then get down from the car and tell her to leave.

You can either walk home or take a cab.

Don't have to be bad towards the other to be bad.
Also this will help avoid prolonging the argument or making it into her being a victim.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Does she do this to the kids, too, when they irritate her?

If she refuses to stop, there's something wrong and it's bigger than the just the behavior. She's feeling _aggressive _toward you, and believes it's ok to keep doing something that she knows bothers you. To me, that suggests she has resentment and anger that she is expressing that may have nothing to do with the immediate trigger.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Yeah, she's using that flick as corporeal punishment. It's physical abuse. If you've asked her to stop and she won't, it also demonstrates she lacks respect for you. She does it when she wants your attention, because it works.
> 
> So stop making it effective for that purpose.* The answer is not to escalate but to de-escalate. *Every time she flicks you, get up and walk away. Don't react, don't say anything, just get up and walk away. If you're driving the car, pull over and get out and catch a cab. If you're really trapped, just ignore her no matter how often she does it. Hopefully, she'll realize how ridiculous it is and stop on her own.



I agree with descalation. Do not flick her back. She is calling your raising your voice at her to get her to stop flicking you verbal abuse. Do not give her amo.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bob1471 said:


> Thing is it in her head its not because she was just getting my attention and I'm overreacting.
> 
> When we argued about it after she said I was being pathetic and that imagine sitting in front of a judge and saying my wife tapped me on the arm. That's the way she looks at it.
> 
> ...


I think you need to make a big point of this in a way where she cannot argue with you and you get to make your complete statement about it.

Now, while things have cooled down a bit, give her a letter. In it tell her that you have repeatedly asked her to not flick you. It is clearly a disrespectful way of her intimidating trying to irritate you and show disrespect. That you have the right to not be touched in ways that you do not want to be touched. So you are telling her that if she does it again, you will take it as intimidation and disrespect. You will walk away.

Keep a copy of the note on your computer so that you can print it out and give it to her again, if she does it again.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bob1471 said:


> Yep tried to explain that. Her answer - no because it was only a tap to get your attention. But I know it was more than that - it was an irritated tap which is what got me going. She tends to do this - get days where everyone in the whole wide world seems to irriate her then in her head, its free rein to say what she likes. And she does.
> 
> *The way she talks about it is scary. I can imagine it to be the way an abusive husband would start off - its nothing, you're overreacting, well dont do this and I wouldnt have to.
> *
> ...


Bob, yes that is how an abuser, man or woman, generally starts out. This is why you need to set a very firm boundary with her without you escalating it. If you escalate, even verbally, you become part of the problem and give the abuse the excuse, the opening they need to justify further abuse.

She has already moved into her being the victim because told her to stop it. Now as the victim (in her mind), she gets to abusive back to protect herself. Right now she's abusive back in a verbal manner. Over time this could very well escalate.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

If it's something you don't like and she doess it. It's a sign of disrespect.

Are you perhaps beta?

If it were me she'd get one warning and I'd pick something she doesn't like and give it to her 10 fold the next time it happened.


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## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

6301 said:


> Comes down to this. You sit her down and let her know that you don't like it, never have and never will and if she does it again it will be the last time she does it and let her figure out what you man by that.
> 
> I don't understand it. Men are taught to never put their hands on a woman in anger no matter if it's a "Flick", a full blown ass kicking or anything in between and yet there's the unwritten rule that says that it's perfectly acceptable for a woman to have the right to resort to being "hands on" in anger and God help a guy if he defends himself or swings back.
> 
> I've been on the receiving end of my ex taking full advantage of that rule and a slap across the face hurts just as much to a mans face as it does to a woman's. All in all keep your hands to yourself and if it continues, then call the cops and press charges. It's a shame that it would have to come down to doing something like that but maybe it will be a lesson learned.


With you 100% on this.

Not sure how it is in the US probably better than here. If I called the cops here I can definitely say they would in all truth, laugh at a report of this sort of thing. Totally wrong of course and it needs to be taken seriously whichever side it comes from.

But as you say, theres this thing that women can do it but me cant.


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## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Bob, yes that is how an abuser, man or woman, generally starts out. This is why you need to set a very firm boundary with her without you escalating it. If you escalate, even verbally, you become part of the problem and give the abuse the excuse, the opening they need to justify further abuse.
> 
> She has already moved into her being the victim because told her to stop it. Now as the victim (in her mind), she gets to abusive back to protect herself. Right now she's abusive back in a verbal manner. Over time this could very well escalate.


Yes totally agree. Because in her head because I reacted back and shouted now I am the bad one and its so unfair on her. I agree with those who say I need to descalate. 

Even though yeh she starts this off, it does make me look bad if Im kicking off with the small kids in the car etc. Yes I do go overboard as well but who wouldn't. But like some of you said, this then gives her ammo to deflect away from the original event.

Escalate? Hmm dont know. I don;t think so - we've been married 20 years. It is just restricted to this little things to be honest. Not cool I know. But of course, in her head, if it was more than just a little thing she couldnt argue that it was 'nothing' could she?

Many many years ago (about 10 now) something like this did escalate. I did hardly anything. She shoved me, I shoved her back. I can't even remember what the argument was about. Cops got involved she called them. Fortunately, nothing got progressed - they saw I think that it was not me being abusive. But there was no way in a million years they were ever going to take my side. But I remember then getting a basically a warning letter from social services/child services saying it'd been noted (I assume police notified them - our son was in the house and only small). So this could have ended badly indeed.

Fortunately, I can say its not happened since apart from this today.


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## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

All well and good some of this talk about calling the cops/doing this that etc. and am I a beta etc? Its easy to say these things until it comes down to your relationaship and your family. In an ideal world, I'd either get get her thrown in jail (I'd love to do that, non-violent way of making my point - wont happen here in the UK though) or I'd give her one warning then knock her teeth down her throat (maybe she deserves this but it ain't gonna happen). If we were together six months not yet married etc then one of those two things would happen or I'd just up and leave.

Theres more to it after 20 year married, small kids involved etc. Solution at this point is probably not either of these choices. Yes if it gets worse of course something has got to be done but for now no.


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## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

UPDATE

Well after it all kicked off she went out with the kids and then came home. Probably best idea. Pretty frosty when she came home. Kids went to bed and she tried to start it up again a little. I think she was expecting me to apologise.

So yeh, I did knacker myself a bit by going nuts and I'm annoyed at myself for doing so. As others have said I should have handled it better. 
But, I re-iterated that what she did was not acceptable. More frost.

So it's likely to blow over now. Yes, in a way I am glad I kicked off and its out there now - hopefully she will think twice next time. Certainly more so than if I'd done nothing. Yes, shes going to be upset for a day or two but I don't really care. Get over it. She probably still doesnt think she did anything wrong but I've said my piece now.

Next time (hopefully it wont happen though), I will react differently though. I hope I can do so because I didnt help myself this time.

Thanks for the advice everyone - you've all helped me a lot with this.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Bob, I think you are justifying your behavior the same way she is justifying hers. She likely feels you have more power in the relationship, and that is why she thinks you are abusive and she is not. She does not think she can hurt you the way you can hurt her. You may not see it that way, but I am guessing that is her thinking.

And when you say you would like to knock her teeth down her throat, I don't wonder why she feels she has less power. Would she be capable of doing that to you?

Rather than get caught up in control techniques, which are unlikely to get to the root of the problem, I would urge you to humble yourself and consider why she is upset, what provokes her acting out. I am not saying her hitting you is okay. It is not. But trying to understand what might be going on inside her that gets her to that point, and what role you may be playing in it, could empower you to stop trouble before it starts.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Many years ago my ex and I got into a huge argument because he "flicked" my son's head. I can't remember why he did it now, but it was in the spirit of, "Son, what is wrong with you??" because he'd done something wrong. He was young at the time, maybe 8 years old. My point was how disrespectful it is to tap anyone in the head like that! I stood in front of him and said, "how would you like it right now if I reached up and did that do your head? Would you feel disrespected??" He said, "You better not!" Yet, STILL would not see my point. 

Your wife might see the point unless you do it to her!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think that would escalate things, secondtimeround.

I don't think leaving the room would solve the real issues, either.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

jld said:


> I think that would escalate things, secondtimeround.
> 
> I don't think leaving the room would solve the real issues, either.


I agree, and I'm not really suggested he do it, but people like this just refuse to see anybody else's point of view until it happens to them. My ex never understood/believed my daughter's anxiety (or anyone's anxiety) until he had to testify in court last year and was scared to death. He finally GOT what anxiety feels like and sent me a text while waiting to testify that if this is how our daughter feels every day he feels terrible for her. 

It's a lack of empathy and evidence of total self centeredness.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> It's a lack of empathy and evidence of total self centeredness.


I think this is true of both of them.

Empathy often begets empathy. I think bob could go first in this.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

My wife Mrs.CuddleBug also has a habit of flicking my ears when she's annoyed with me.

I just flick her back hard or give her a light hit. She says Ow, and I tell her, you flick me.....

Result, she rarely flicks my ears now, but her instinctive reaction to dealing with annoyances is to flick my ears or give me a light punch. She has always been this way.

I punch her back hard and she stops.

I flick her back hard and she stops.

Talking about it, how it bothers me, shows her I'm not being a man and she continues doing it.:grin2:


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## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

jld said:


> Bob, I think you are justifying your behavior the same way she is justifying hers. She likely feels you have more power in the relationship, and that is why she thinks you are abusive and she is not. She does not think she can hurt you the way you can hurt her. You may not see it that way, but I am guessing that is her thinking.
> 
> And when you say you would like to knock her teeth down her throat, I don't wonder why she feels she has less power. Would she be capable of doing that to you?
> 
> Rather than get caught up in control techniques, which are unlikely to get to the root of the problem, I would urge you to humble yourself and consider why she is upset, what provokes her acting out. I am not saying her hitting you is okay. It is not. But trying to understand what might be going on inside her that gets her to that point, and what role you may be playing in it, could empower you to stop trouble before it starts.


Yes maybe you're right. You have a point....

OK though when I say I'd like to knock her teeth down her throat obviously I dont and never would. Yes maybe you're right I do get annoyed that she does this. Maybe too much. But you're right, physically she could not do the same to me.

I just explode thinking how has she got the right to do this...

And OK I might get some disagreements here. There are plenty of women out there, who do nothing, and get beaten by their male partners. 

I just think, Jeez, theres all those women out there who are totally innocent yet you've got the husband whos not like that yet this is how you behave. And you push it the other way. You should be lucky that you're not with someone else who may well give you a good pasting for your behaviour...

Yes, I know, I let it wind me up too much....


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## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> My wife Mrs.CuddleBug also has a habit of flicking my ears when she's annoyed with me.
> 
> I just flick her back hard or give her a light hit. She says Ow, and I tell her, you flick me.....
> 
> ...


Works for you then fair enough but I dunno....

Fair enough you're wife knows where to stop BUT OK what would you do if you flicked/hit her back hard and she escalated and did the same. Would you then escalate it up to really hurting her?

I can't see thats gonna do any good whatsoever. In fact, if it gets that far and cops are involved its you thats going to take the fall in all likelihood.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

bob1471 said:


> Works for you then fair enough but I dunno....
> 
> Fair enough you're wife knows where to stop BUT OK what would you do if you flicked/hit her back hard and she escalated and did the same. Would you then escalate it up to really hurting her?
> 
> I can't see thats gonna do any good whatsoever. In fact, if it gets that far and cops are involved its you thats going to take the fall in all likelihood.



Mrs.CuddleBug doesn't get crazy mad and flick my ears or punch me hard. It's she's annoyed and playing type of flicking and hitting. I return the favor and she stops, says ow, smiles and walks away.:grin2:


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> Stop explaining. Not only does it look weak, it IS weak.
> 
> Tell her you are not okay with it. When she starts to rant to get you to explain (because she does have you clearly trained to do this whether you realize it or not), one simple question:
> 
> ...


Perfectly Stated


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Sounds like she's just wanting to eff with you, get you to back off, then force you to apologize in the end.

Petty, manipulative and a shltty way to treat a husband.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Forest said:


> Sounds like she's just wanting to eff with you, get you to back off, then force you to apologize in the end.
> 
> Petty, manipulative and a shltty way to treat a husband.


And he is allowing it.

OP, you have been given the tools. Using them will make you smile at the situation.

It will be like an adult playing chess with an adolescent; you will see her moves before she even makes them.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Make a "flick" card.

Have numerous sexual favors on the card.

Every time she flicks you, have her check one.

If she flicks you 3x in one day, you pick.

Include spanking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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