# NMMNG insight needed



## 32064 (Dec 19, 2011)

I finally took a users advice and read NMMNG and was somewhat beside myself with the info. I am about 60% nice guy from what I can gather but need to read it over again before fully implementing. But, need some advice on a topic I do not understand or am simply confused with.

One of the nice guy attributes I am 100% guilty of is helping others. Some return the favor, some don't, sometimes I am shocked at the gifts we receive and people help me all the time. According to the NMMNG info I need to stop this. I don't get it? Am I really to discontinue assisting friends, family, neighbors, people at church? My wife says it disgusts her and I should not help anyone with anything. I shouldn't volunteer for any community or church programs. She does nothing for no one and has few if any close friends. 

To any NMMNG successful people: is my take on this correct? Do I need to stop doing thing for others?


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Krummer said:


> To any NMMNG successful people: is my take on this correct? Do I need to stop doing thing for others?


Yes, but only if you want to become the sort of man who no longer helps others. I'm not sure a woman is worth that. Do you?


----------



## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

There is nothing wrong in doing things for others in need. I do believe you should take care of you and yours first. Once that's done, what's wrong with lending someone a hand. 

There is something wrong in doing for someone who doesn't appreciate your effort. There is something wrong with someone who does nothing for anyone. I can't imagine how miserable a life that must be. 

BTW, does your W do anything for you?


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Depends. Probably refers to your wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## chris007 (Jul 15, 2015)

Its not about not helping others its about being able to say "no" and not being a people pleaser. So for example, if you have plans to do something on a certain day,and someone asks you for help, you should be able to decline. Being selfish is actually an attractive trait for a man. None of them will admit to it, but women find men who put their own needs first and foremost, attractive. It signals to them, that you will put your future family unit as a top priority.


----------



## chris007 (Jul 15, 2015)

Let me give yoy a quick example of attractibe behavior. You get on a bus, and there is only one seat open. A nice guy, would give that seat up to his woman - while having to atand himself - not attractive. A jerk, would take the seat himself, while having a woman stand - also not attractive. A man who knows whatsup, would take the seat himself and let his woman sit on his lap. That is how you show ability to take care of your own needs, while being responsible for needs of those closest to you. Very attractive.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

... and a true gentleman would give the seat up to the little old lady standing by the exit, thereby earning the respect of everyone on the bus, his woman included.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

But what if the little old lady wanted to sit on your lap?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> But what if the little old lady wanted to sit on your lap?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That depends on how easily she can remove her dentures. Or should I start a "Did you get a bj on your bus ride today?" thread?


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

That hack thinks 90% of the population needs his help, and the other 10% should buy his crap for the knowledge within. He's convinced you that helping others is a weakness? Good Lord.

He's no smarter than you, just more manipulative and greedy.


----------



## 32064 (Dec 19, 2011)

I don't want to become a selfish "do nothing for no one" person. That's my wife's way of living life. She is a taker and doesn't do much for anyone besides turning the children into spoiled brats. 

I'm trying to reason how nmmng could be correct on this when in Gods eyes we are to serve others.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Krummer said:


> I don't want to become a selfish "do nothing for no one" person. That's my wife's way of living life. She is a taker and doesn't do much for anyone besides turning the children into spoiled brats.
> 
> I'm trying to reason how nmmng could be correct on this when in Gods eyes we are to serve others.


It is probably more like priorities.

Nice guys do harm to themselves and their relationships by bending over backwards for everyone.

It is a philosophy. My father in law is that way and no one respects him, including his wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 32064 (Dec 19, 2011)

My family always comes before anyone else. I really don't think there's a priority problem. It also seems like I'm respected around town. 

I had an issue in the yard not too long ago. I made one phone call and 20 min later two people came and spent half the day here digging with me. While my wife watched tv all day. Never even stepped foot outside to offer a drink.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Then sounds like you need to apply it to your wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Krummer said:


> I finally took a users advice and read NMMNG and was somewhat beside myself with the info. I am about 60% nice guy from what I can gather but need to read it over again before fully implementing. But, need some advice on a topic I do not understand or am simply confused with.
> 
> One of the nice guy attributes I am 100% guilty of is helping others. Some return the favor, some don't, sometimes I am shocked at the gifts we receive and people help me all the time. According to the NMMNG info I need to stop this. I don't get it? Am I really to discontinue assisting friends, family, neighbors, people at church? My wife says it disgusts her and I should not help anyone with anything. I shouldn't volunteer for any community or church programs. She does nothing for no one and has few if any close friends.
> 
> To any NMMNG successful people: is my take on this correct? Do I need to stop doing thing for others?


No, you don't need to stop doing things for other people. Make sure your needs are taken care of first, and then help others. Stop helping others with the unspoken expectation that they'll help you back. Help simply for the sake of helping.

It's mostly about: A) making sure your needs get met first, so you're not running around white-knighting while you're miserable yourself (you're not fooling anyone anyway--you still come off as miserable). B)Eliminating covert contracts from your interactions with people.


----------



## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Krummer, 

I think Dr. Glover's book is worth a read, but I wouldn't put all my eggs in his or anyone else's basket. There are similar ideas in many other self-help books, with less drastic exercises. I can't ever imagine going through life not helping any individuals or my community. There is a reward to service, as you already know. How would we ever improve as a society?

If you're looking for something more faith-based, I'd suggest you'd read Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life and Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud and Townsend, also Wayne Levine's book Hold on to Your NUTs: The Relationship Manual for Men. You might find them more applicable to your beliefs. 

Best.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Are you referring to caretaking, or just being helpful to others? There is a difference.

So far the discussion in this thread has been about you being helpful when others ask. But you aren't providing enough details. Is it like when you called people to help with your back yard, where others call you to help? If others are calling you, or the church is asking for volunteers, you are being helpful. So now the issue is whether you are letting other priorities suffer? Do you rarely say no? Do you let important family obligations languish?

It is definitely a balance. Spending half a day helping a neighbor cut up a fallen tree is never convenient, but it doesn't have to be wrong to put aside your other plans to help them out. Someone used the term White Knight, and that is a good way to look at it. Are you the go-to White Knight that people call because they know you'll never say no and you'll always come riding in at full speed?

The other possibility which Doc Glover talks about is Caretaking. Many Nice Guys are caretakers. This is where you do things for others even though they don't ask for it. They may never even really want you to do these things, or they might learn you will do things without them having to specifically ask for it.

My kids learned all they had to do was say something was broken or damaged and then I'd just go fix it. They would say their bike was making a funny noise, and I'd go fix it for them. I like nice things which are well maintained, but I was being used as the family handiman. The wife would say a door was creaky, and I'd go fix it.

Instead, people should request help. They shouldn't expect it. If the kid's bike has a flat, they should ask me to please fix it. The wife should ask me to please look at the wobbly door knob, not expect me to run to fix it. And, I should expect a Thank You when done. The doing should be on my schedule, too!


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Krummer said:


> I finally took a users advice and read NMMNG and was somewhat beside myself with the info. I am about 60% nice guy from what I can gather but need to read it over again before fully implementing. But, need some advice on a topic I do not understand or am simply confused with.
> 
> One of the nice guy attributes I am 100% guilty of is helping others. Some return the favor, some don't, sometimes I am shocked at the gifts we receive and people help me all the time. According to the NMMNG info I need to stop this. I don't get it? Am I really to discontinue assisting friends, family, neighbors, people at church? My wife says it disgusts her and I should not help anyone with anything. I shouldn't volunteer for any community or church programs. She does nothing for no one and has few if any close friends.
> 
> To any NMMNG successful people: is my take on this correct? Do I need to stop doing thing for others?


Good on you for reading NMMNG! 

I think there are 2 fundamental differences between "Nice Guy Helping Others" and "Healthy Not-Nice Guy Helping Others": 1) Motivation/Expectations, and 2) Priorities. The way I see it, a Nice Guy helps others for the same reason that he does things for women--to get something in return--and he doesn't prioritize WHO he helps appropriately. What I mean by prioritizing appropriately is this: he helps without discretion, because he wants EVERYONE to like him, often at the cost of neglecting his own needs and those who actually deserve or truly need help. This results in undeserving people using and abusing the Nice Guy's helping nature--and then he wonders why they treat him like sh!t and gets angry (the same way he gets angry that a woman won't give him sex).

My guess is that your wife doesn't like you doing all this "helping" because she sees other people taking advantage of you, and you getting nothing in return for all this effort. She might see this as you prioritizing other people (who don't deserve it) over her, over your marriage, over your family--she may see you spending your time on others as neglecting other responsibilities that should be a higher priority. Example: when I was a teenager, my mother was furious with my father because he used his vacation time (2 weeks/yr) to go to a mission in Appalachia to help build homes for impoverished families. Sounds like a really respectable things, a good use of his time, right? Not really, when you consider the real reasons my mother was mad. His going on this mission meant that he DIDN'T spend his vacation time with his wife and kids--my dad didn't come on a single family vacation with us between my ages of 12 and 18, because he was using all his vacation time on these trips. Also, he was building houses of other families, when he had countless half-finished (unfinished) improvements at home that were negatively impacting our quality of life (broken air conditioners that were half-repaired, drafty window sashes that were half-installed, hazardous front porch steps in a constant state of disrepair). In her eyes, he was prioritizing people he didn't even know over the people who should be his highest priority: his wife and kids.

So, I think you need to examine who you are helping, why you are helping them, and whether your priorities are straight--or if your helping others is stealing your focus and time away from who/what should be higher priorities. Get your priorities straight, focus on what really matters, and if you have time and energy left over, you can help others--but choose judiciously.


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Krummer said:


> I finally took a users advice and read NMMNG and was somewhat beside myself with the info. I am about 60% nice guy from what I can gather but need to read it over again before fully implementing. But, need some advice on a topic I do not understand or am simply confused with.
> 
> One of the nice guy attributes I am 100% guilty of is helping others. Some return the favor, some don't, sometimes I am shocked at the gifts we receive and people help me all the time. According to the NMMNG info I need to stop this. I don't get it? Am I really to discontinue assisting friends, family, neighbors, people at church? My wife says it disgusts her and I should not help anyone with anything. I shouldn't volunteer for any community or church programs. She does nothing for no one and has few if any close friends.
> 
> To any NMMNG successful people: is my take on this correct? Do I need to stop doing thing for others?


FeministInPink writes very well on this. 

Of course, the other option is your wife is selfish and demanding. In that case, she will think everything you do should be able her and considers the only reason you would do something for others is weakness. 

A crude measure is whether your wife has many friends. If she does, then I would pay attention to what FeministInPink writes.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Mr The Other said:


> FeministInPink writes very well on this.
> 
> Of course, the other option is your wife is selfish and demanding. In that case, she will think everything you do should be able her and considers the only reason you would do something for others is weakness.
> 
> A crude measure is whether your wife has many friends. If she does, then I would pay attention to what FeministInPink writes.


Thanks 

Yeah, if the wife is just a raging b!tch, then what I wrote isn't going to help much!

I'm not sure if the number of friends is the best measure, though. Introverts (like me!) are very selective about who they consider friends, and who they spend their time with--it doesn't mean they are selfish and demanding. (But I do have a wide circle of acquaintances who think highly of me, so maybe that's the difference...)

But I did notice that the OP indicates that his wife IS pretty selfish in a couple of other posts... but even if she IS selfish and demanding, my post about priorities could still be on point. If the OP's priorities aren't straight, the wife could come across as selfish and demanding because she her needs aren't being met, and she's trying to spur him into action, or it's manifest of her frustration. Some women are b!tches all the time; some women become b!tchy because they don't get what they need from their partners and they become resentful. (True story, happened to me.) It's up to the OP to determine which applies to his wife. We're probably not going to be able to figure that one out.


----------



## 32064 (Dec 19, 2011)

My helping others occurs maybe 2 to 3 times a month and I'll say no to a request or two. There have been a select few who only call when something is needed so I rarely ever do much with them anymore. Otherwise, I feel my wife is taking advantage of me. She does expect me to run and fix, build, and support the household. The more I refuse, the worse our relationship gets. I 

On the how many friends does the wife have question it would be two. Her mother and her mothers "friend". Both of them kiss my wifes A$$. The "friend" is unquestionably 100% caretaker towards my wife. I kind of think she expects the same from me and doesn't get it.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Krummer said:


> My helping others occurs maybe 2 to 3 times a month and I'll say no to a request or two. There have been a select few who only call when something is needed so I rarely ever do much with them anymore. Otherwise, I feel my wife is taking advantage of me. She does expect me to run and fix, build, and support the household. The more I refuse, the worse our relationship gets. I
> 
> On the how many friends does the wife have question it would be two. Her mother and her mothers "friend". Both of them kiss my wifes A$$. The "friend" is unquestionably 100% caretaker towards my wife. I kind of think she expects the same from me and doesn't get it.



She sounds like she has some kind of "Emperor" complex. No friends, but a couple of suckups. She relies on her "court" (you) to attend to her needs. After all, this is the way things should be. 

Sadly, If this is the case, I don't think anyone can say or do a thing to change her outlook. She'd rather go into exile, or fall on her sword than to relinquish her emperor status.

Other people calling you when they need help doesn't make you a limp noodle. It means they believe in you. I'd imagine the situation is always reciprocal. They'd be there for you with a phone call?

In short, her ugly selfish nature trumps any of the "nice guy" pop-psychology-for-profit nonsense you see on the internet. Believe it or not, the truly great minds and examiners of human behavior do not make a living selling ebooks and hosting seminars over the internet.


----------

