# Can't fathom what happened



## Plum (Apr 29, 2021)

Deleted


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## Kawan (Apr 29, 2021)

Difficult. You are good at communicating. He feels entitled. A possibility is that overall he is not cheating, maybe some "harmless" peeking, maybe he feels thats ok and doesnt want drama from it. You could gather yourself and wait for a light hearted moment to simply say u dont wanna lose your relation which is simple but key and can stick in his mind. Im dealing with a very difficult wife and i find that time does fix some problems, because insensitive people quickly let things go. The more sensitive one can too, but after finding middle ground (give and take)


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Get out. Now. Or, stay in and suffer the abuse. If you stay in, you can only blame yourself.


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## FlaviusMaximus (Jan 10, 2012)

Your husband needs some counseling. Having Brad Pitt as a screen saver is hardly an issue, my wife finds certain actors and celebrities sexy – so what? We all look.

Looking at porn (to the exclusion of a healthy sexual relationship) if that’s the case and friending women he barely knows on FB is hardly the same thing. One is harmless, the other is potentially destructive.

A man who flies across the room and blocks a door to keep you from having a few minutes alone to cool down is inching toward physical abuse. It sounds like he’s already verbally and emotionally abusive. He seems to have of trouble owning up to his responsibilities and transgressions, I don’t know how you ultimately solve issues with a partner like that. He ignores his actions so that he can get angry at you for getting angry. That’s not something an emotionally developed person does.

You have marital problems, but he needs to fix himself first or you may never solve them.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

You caught him lying and he went into bully and intimidation mode to shut it down.

I know this tactic well....my ex did it, right down to playing dumb the next day. Its a form of gaslighting.

What you should've done instead of chasing him to "discuss" it and kissing his ass was to grab some clothes and leave for a few days.

Better shut that **** down now. You don't "discuss" anything with a bully....you play hardball.

And yes, he is lying and there's likely more you don't know about. That's why he's bullying....he wants this shut down before you find out more.


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## Plum (Apr 29, 2021)

FlaviusMaximus said:


> Your husband needs some counseling. Having Brad Pitt as a screen saver is hardly an issue, my wife finds certain actors and celebrities sexy – so what? We all look.
> 
> Looking at porn (to the exclusion of a healthy sexual relationship) if that’s the case and friending women he barely knows on FB is hardly the same thing. One is harmless, the other is potentially destructive.
> 
> ...





FlaviusMaximus said:


> Your husband needs some counseling. Having Brad Pitt as a screen saver is hardly an issue, my wife finds certain actors and celebrities sexy – so what? We all look.
> 
> Looking at porn (to the exclusion of a healthy sexual relationship) if that’s the case and friending women he barely knows on FB is hardly the same thing. One is harmless, the other is potentially destructive.
> 
> ...


I have never thought having any good looking person as a screen saver was an issue but apparently I was a disrespectful ***** (this is what he quoted to his Sister) It was easier to just delete my screen saver and have done with it rather than put up with any hassle for having one. Now it's my cats!

As for the porn, well we haven't had sex for two years, so huge issues there, but perhaps not surprising as we haven't been emotionally connected for some time now. 

For many years I've tried to highlight how destructive his behaviour can be, without success, down to his lack of acknowledgement that he is doing anything wrong or purely responding to the way I have behaved, spoken, questioned something or simply said something in the wrong tone of voice. He has improved on his past behaviour but there is still an under current of destructive behaviour from him and you've hit the nail on the head, until he fixes himself we will never be in a position where things can ever be truly resolved.

I know he's emotionally abusive, I would put him down as being possibly a covert narcissist, he has a very low self esteem and I believe he projects his failings onto me. As time goes on it's easy to feel that things aren't that bad, or maybe I'm being hard on him so I really need this pointed out to me, so I know I'm not the crazy one and I do have a right to speak up and point out his behaviour. 

The door blocking he has only done a similar thing to me once in the past. He was removing a windowsill when wallpapering and I asked him why, as I had just sanded it down and painted it and didn't want him damaged, he grabbed me by the arms and shouted in my face, left me with fingertip bruising on both arms, that was the first time in 30 years together he has scared me and I said ever again and I'd leave. Of course on that occasion he apologised but said again, it was cause and effect and if I hadn't have wound him up he wouldn't have got annoyed with me.

He can be an incredibly nice person, generous, caring but trying to discuss anything about our relationship is impossible when it's always down to me and what I've done or said.

Sorry for the lengthy reply. There's so much inside that needs to come out so I make sense of things.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Abusers are always nice when they're not abusing.

If they were nasty all the time nobody would stick around.


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## Plum (Apr 29, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> You caught him lying and he went into bully and intimidation mode to shut it down.
> 
> I know this tactic well....my ex did it, right down to playing dumb the next day. Its a form of gaslighting.
> 
> ...


Ironically there is a story behind the Dutch Woman on his FB list. When he went away on his business trip 3 years ago he barely kept in contact with me, just one brief Skype call each evening. On the 3rd night he sent one text saying he wasn't calling me as he had a migraine and his battery was about to die. I was pretty upset after not hearing anything from him for 24 hours so rang back and got his voicemail. I sent a text saying it would be nice to have a brief chat so he at least knew me and the children were all well, but nothing.
When he returned home the following night I voiced that he had upset me, again he apologised but was clearly in a sulk with me the next day and it culminated in a huge row (on our wedding anniversary, no card from him nothing, just a row) he said he didn't want to be with me anyway when I was as I was. I was simply pointing out he'd ignored me and I felt it was unfair. Said as tactfully as I could and in a non blaming fashion of course.

I tried to explain I'd been hurt by the feeling of rejection and he blamed me for the argument. He couldn't see that he had done anything wrong at all..... turns out that's when he met this mysterious lady. Just always found it odd that he was so cold towards me at that time for no obvious reason but that's a topic that I can't ever bring back up for fear of the repercussions.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Plum said:


> Ironically there is a story behind the Dutch Woman on his FB list. When he went away on his business trip 3 years ago he barely kept in contact with me, just one brief Skype call each evening. On the 3rd night he sent one text saying he wasn't calling me as he had a migraine and his battery was about to die. I was pretty upset after not hearing anything from him for 24 hours so rang back and got his voicemail. I sent a text saying it would be nice to have a brief chat so he at least knew me and the children were all well, but nothing.
> When he returned home the following night I voiced that he had upset me, again he apologised but was clearly in a sulk with me the next day and it culminated in a huge row (on our wedding anniversary, no card from him nothing, just a row) he said he didn't want to be with me anyway when I was as I was. I was simply pointing out he'd ignored me and I felt it was unfair. Said as tactfully as I could and in a non blaming fashion of course.
> 
> I tried to explain I'd been hurt by the feeling of rejection and he blamed me for the argument. He couldn't see that he had done anything wrong at all..... turns out that's when he met this mysterious lady. Just always found it odd that he was so cold towards me at that time for no obvious reason but that's a topic that I can't ever bring back up for fear of the repercussions.


Yep, that's how they operate.

Garden variety bully....get so nasty over things you don't want to deal with that your wife becomes afraid to bring it up.

Are you sure you want to keep living like this? I left my ex and am far happier without him.


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## Plum (Apr 29, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Yep, that's how they operate.
> 
> Garden variety bully....get so nasty over things you don't want to deal with that your wife becomes afraid to bring it up.
> 
> Are you sure you want to keep living like this? I left my ex and am far happier without him.


No I don't if I'm honest. I've considered leaving many times. Trouble is I do love him, despite all the crap he has thrown my way over the years. Don't get me wrong, some days I loathe him for what he does to me, but part of me always thinks we can resolve this. I know his behaviour has changed me and I have no trust in him to be the person I would like him to truly be, on the flipside.


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## FlaviusMaximus (Jan 10, 2012)

Plum said:


> I have never thought having any good looking person as a screen saver was an issue but apparently I was a disrespectful *** (this is what he quoted to his Sister) It was easier to just delete my screen saver and have done with it rather than put up with any hassle for having one. Now it's my cats!
> 
> As for the porn, well we haven't had sex for two years, so huge issues there, but perhaps not surprising as we haven't been emotionally connected for some time now.
> 
> ...


Honestly it sounds like some sort of personality disorder. It sounds like he doesn’t have a grasp of the consequences of his behavior or a healthy understanding and expression of regret or guilt. That’s a hard person to be around and one who you will not likely find resolution with on issues involving his behavior or issues that are emotionally charged.

It also sounds like porn has replaced your sexual relationship. I suppose that makes sense as with porn, there is no real effort emotionally and no real investment. But lack of sex eventually becomes another issue (a wreck on a wreck).

He needs some help in order to face his own behavior and understand the implications of that behavior. You can’t survive being a punching bag (literally or figuratively) as his response to your very natural questions about his destructive behavior. Apologizing becomes rote and isn't followed up by change, so it's really disingenuous. 

Don’t apologize for the length of your replies. All information is helpful and I’m sure it helps you put an order to things in some way.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

With hope there must be some upside.
I see none, envision none.

Do you have children?
After 30 years of marriage, they must be all grown up.

Do you think he is biding his time?

That, he has leaving on his mind and only needs the acquiescence of another woman?
Maybe, waiting on the Dutch Gal to whistle him her way?

If not her, another.

Why no sex for two years?
Your choice, his choice, or both?

If he is still virile, this must be eating at him.
If he is not, this may be keeping him at home. 

He suspects, no new woman is going to start a relationship with a man who cannot do it.
Ah well, there are always some ladies who are in the same boat and only want a platonic companion.



_Are Dee-_


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Blaming the victim. This is what wife beaters the world over do. They refuse to take responsibility for their actions.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

You either need to take action or get used to it.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Plum said:


> ...part of me always thinks we can resolve this.


YOU want to resolve this; HE does not 



Plum said:


> I know his behaviour has changed me and I have no trust in him to be the person I would like him to truly be,


Without fundamental trust, it's pointless to keep hoping anything can be resolved. You are living on wishful thinking and not the reality of the situation. Sorry, but I'm not convinced you love this man. I was married to an abuser. I assure you, by the time I'd had my fill of his horrible behavior, love was the farthest thing from my mind. I wouldn't want someone like your husband in my life. He's destroyed your trust. Without that, it sounds like you are just chasing a dream of what you'd like him to be. I'd suggest you work on embracing the reality of what he is.


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## Plum (Apr 29, 2021)

Prodigal said:


> YOU want to resolve this; HE does not
> 
> 
> 
> Without fundamental trust, it's pointless to keep hoping anything can be resolved. You are living on wishful thinking and not the reality of the situation. Sorry, but I'm not convinced you love this man. I was married to an abuser. I assure you, by the time I'd had my fill of his horrible behavior, love was the farthest thing from my mind. I wouldn't want someone like your husband in my life. He's destroyed your trust. Without that, it sounds like you are just chasing a dream of what you'd like him to be. I'd suggest you work on embracing the reality of what he is.


He says he wants to resolve things, but resolution often seems to be me accepting that I am an opinionated person who never agrees with anything he says and being more receptive and making a better environment for him to talk. 
I do love him, if I didn't I wouldn't be here, I love him for being the Father of my Children and for the good things he does. He doesn't behave this way all the time, only when difficult subjects arise. I know what I feel.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Plum said:


> Husband and I have been married a long time, not very happily and forever trying to sort out our issues it seems.





Plum said:


> He then told me it didn't matter anymore anyway as he had unfriended her and the other females he didn't really know, as well as some of the pages he followed on FB. (All attractive female sports women and personalities) He said he'd had a good clean up of his FB page, the week before. I hadn't asked him to delete anybody or anything at any stage.
> 
> The next day I had a look and he hadn't deleted anybody or anything, which of course made me wonder why he would have said this to me in such a definitive manner the night before, so I asked him why he lied about it. He told me he had genuinely thought he had done as he'd said and then got angry with me, shouting at me about how dare I accuse him of lying. He then refused to speak to me for the rest of the day.


Sorry, but I'm not seeing what there is to "love" here. So what if he's a great guy some of the time? He's also an abusive liar who tries to blame you for his character defects. You can claim you love this man until the cows come home. That's fine. Your life. Your choice. I'm not here to argue about it. I'm pointing out that I was married to someone like your husband and I found the bad tended to nullify the good. 

Best of luck. I hope it works out for you.


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## Plum (Apr 29, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> With hope there must be some upside.
> I see none, envision none.
> 
> Do you have children?
> ...


Yes , 3 children, all in their 20's. Two of whom are still at home. I honestly don't think he has the confidence to find another Woman, he has low self esteem. The Dutch Woman lives in Holland, she's also about 20 years younger so I don't see her as a threat. There's no sign of him planning or having had an affair.

I have no idea how much he earns these days, I know he has a lot of savings, but not exactly how much so he could be planning for his future. He swears he wants us to stay together though.

No sex is due to our lack of emotional connection stemming from our issues, he's perfectly able if he wanted to. There's been no decision on either side to not have it. Things had been slipping for a few years, once or twice a year, down to how things were between us. If it eats at him he doesn't admit it, I bring the subject up often but things don't change.


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## Plum (Apr 29, 2021)

FlaviusMaximus said:


> Honestly it sounds like some sort of personality disorder. It sounds like he doesn’t have a grasp of the consequences of his behavior or a healthy understanding and expression of regret or guilt. That’s a hard person to be around and one who you will not likely find resolution with on issues involving his behavior or issues that are emotionally charged.
> 
> It also sounds like porn has replaced your sexual relationship. I suppose that makes sense as with porn, there is no real effort emotionally and no real investment. But lack of sex eventually becomes another issue (a wreck on a wreck).
> 
> ...


How do you make somebody see what they're doing though? wish I had the answer. Most conversations we have seem to go around in circles and we end up back where we started. If I disagree with the content or feel the need to defend myself (which is often) it's met with "See you never agree with anything I say" and escalates into shouting over me until I give up and let it slip. Or he simply doesn't participate in the conversation at all. 
He just can't see that he is causing the problem, because he justifies his behaviour and if I protest at that he says he's just expressing his feelings and I should accept how he feels. If I disagree it's because I'm too opinionated. 
There never seems to be actual solutions in the equation, just a cycle of excuses and reasons for why something happened. Just when I think we've made headway and feel some positivity that we may be able to sort things out something like last week happens and all the good is immediately undone. 
My tendency is to try to get over it, move on and hope it won't happen again.


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## FlaviusMaximus (Jan 10, 2012)

Plum said:


> My tendency is to try to get over it, move on and hope it won't happen again.


Wishful thinking isn’t an answer. (I'm sure you know that)

How do you get someone to see what they’re doing and the consequences of their actions? If they don’t acknowledge them it’s pretty hard to do. You could try going to counseling together and see if the addition of a third-party encourages him. Absent that, I don’t know any alternative, but ultimatums and it doesn’t seem like he’s the type to respond to that very well but you may not have a choice.

Clearly you have to break the cycle as the misery you’re experiencing has probably eclipsed the misery of leaving. You seem to have good intensions but you’re running up against a wall caused by a partner who won’t cooperate and share the responsibilities for the health of the marriage.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> Yep, that's how they operate.
> 
> Garden variety bully....get so nasty over things you don't want to deal with that your wife becomes afraid to bring it up.
> 
> Are you sure you want to keep living like this? I left my ex and am far happier without him.


Yes very manipulative. Using anger or threats to get your own way. Everyone has to walk on eggshells.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You can’t “make” anyone see anything. You can keep hoping for the rest of your life that he’ll change but he won’t because he doesn’t want to. Of course he wants to stay with you — he doesn’t have anyone else who will take him. What he really wants is for you to let him do whatever it is that he wants to do. Can you?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

This sounds like a very unhealthy relationship with very poor communication and conflict resolution skills.

If both of you decide the marriage is worth preserving (which I don’t think anyone would blame you if you didn’t) then you should seriously consider marital counseling.

Counseling cannot fix bad characters, personality disorders or willful torment.

But if two people want the marriage to work and both are willing to put in the effort and heavy lifting, then counseling can help teach more effective and constructive communication and conflict resolution skills.


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## Plum (Apr 29, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> This sounds like a very unhealthy relationship with very poor communication and conflict resolution skills.
> 
> If both of you decide the marriage is worth preserving (which I don’t think anyone would blame you if you didn’t) then you should seriously consider marital counseling.
> 
> ...


We've tried counselling several times in the past. We went to Relate for nearly a year and although some things were helpful, nothing much was resolved. Interestingly, though obvious, the last time the Counselor was pretty on the ball and very aware of where the issues lay, she asked to see my Husband on his own for quite a few sessions, maybe that's he looks back now and says it didn't work due to having a useless counsellor!

Yes you're spot on, poor communication and conflict resolution skills are why we're where we're at.


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## Plum (Apr 29, 2021)

Openminded said:


> You can’t “make” anyone see anything. You can keep hoping for the rest of your life that he’ll change but he won’t because he doesn’t want to. Of course he wants to stay with you — he doesn’t have anyone else who will take him. What he really wants is for you to let him do whatever it is that he wants to do. Can you?
> [/QUOTE
> 
> I believe he can't, rather than won't. He says he has self awareness of how he is and to be fair does try to be different. Compared to what he was like 10 years ago we've come a long way.


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## Plum (Apr 29, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Yes very manipulative. Using anger or threats to get your own way. Everyone has to walk on eggshells.


We're all guilty of it in varying ways I'm sure to some extent. I do feel as if I'm walking on egg shells, that's something I mention frequently in our 'talks' I believe we disagree so often because I'm very aware of how he is behaving and refuse to allow him to manipulate me, I don't spend my time apologising or sucking up to him. If I'm in the wrong I say sorry, if I'm not and he's upset me I speak up and explain why I'm hurt. If he tries to pin the blame on me, as he always does, then I refuse to back down and say "Yep sorry all my fault, I won't do it again" I think he finds this very frustrating, but hopefully it makes him more self aware.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

And can you continue that life if there are no changes?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Plum said:


> He can be an incredibly nice person, generous, caring but trying to discuss anything about our relationship is impossible when it's always down to me and what I've done or said.


I guess if you ever wake up to reality and realize your husband is an abusive asshole, which outweighs all his "niceness" you might decide to put firm boundaries in place.

Not manipulating you? He sure is. All he needs to do is literally get into your face and start screaming and you'll back down. He's done it before. He's done it again. You're still with him.

BTW, he sounds like a real peach of a guy. And, p.s. - Abusers will often apologize when they feel their victim is starting to detach.

ETA: I don't think you're really defending this loser. Actually, you are trying to defend your choice to stay with such an awful man. Seriously.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Imagine a girlfriend or family member who you care very much about relayed the following to you:

_I really love my husband for who he is much of the time and as the father of my children, however, we recently had an argument and his anger escalated. I tried to retreat to the bathroom but he blocked the door with his body, pulled stupid faces at me, and shouted at me to get angry and violet. I felt intimidated and frightened. He eventually backed off when I finally managed to get the door closed, although in doing so, I also shut my arm in the door which caused bruising. 

The next day he behaved as though nothing had happened. Meanwhile, I was still upset and suggested we discuss things. This turned into another argument. He blamed the door incident on me as a cause and effect to me accusing of him lying.

Why would he lie? And why would he get so irate when I asked why he had lied? Surely the punishment I received doesn't fit the crime? Oh and for background, in the past he has grabbed my arm which left bruises. He also employs tactics of gaslighting, stonewalling, and blaming me for pretty much everything wrong in our relationship. We are no longer emotionally or physically/sexually connecting._

What would your response or suggestion be to this person?


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## Plum (Apr 29, 2021)

Prodigal said:


> I guess if you ever wake up to reality and realize your husband is an abusive asshole, which outweighs all his "niceness" you might decide to put firm boundaries in place.
> 
> Not manipulating you? He sure is. All he needs to do is literally get into your face and start screaming and you'll back down. He's done it before. He's done it again. You're still with him.
> 
> ...


He's not an abusive arsehole, far from it, these are two very isolated incidents that have happened in 32 years. He's yelled in my face twice in all that time, hardly justifies that title. I am perfectly capable of shouting too, just not in his face and he's taller than me! If he was what you say he is, I wouldn't still be married to him. He's also not a loser. It's actually pretty hurtful for somebody who doesn't know me, him or our history to make such a massive judgement and also say I'm trying to defend my choice to stay with him. Surely this site is about advice? See my separate post.


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## Plum (Apr 29, 2021)

I appreciate everybody's comments and those who have offered useful advice, but perhaps I need to clarify a few points. 

Some people's comments are pretty judgemental, saying my Husband is a Wife beater, arsehole, etc., he's far from it. Also questioning why I say I am still in love with him and saying I'm trying to justify why I'm still with him. I find those comments pretty hurtful because they are totally untrue. I live with him, I know him and his personality. I know mine.

Yes I do feel as if I'm walking on egg shells sometimes, but not based on thinking he is going to harm me, or say something nasty, far from it, he has never done either, just because I don't want to end up us having a spat over some triviality or I don't want to offend him and he be silent with me for the rest of the day.

I've known him for 32 years, he didn't even get angry or shout until about 4 years ago, anger just didn't figure in his behaviour at all. Maybe once in a blue moon he'd raise his voice. He has been the most calm, loving and supportive Father to our 3 children and would drop anything immediately to be there for any of us if we needed him. I've always felt safe and secure with him. I have never felt that he would hurt me, or hit me, never ever. I can assume the things I've mentioned, having been written out of context are painting him in a very different way to what is reality.

The majority of the time he is a funny, calm, caring, helpful, loyal person, on the odd occasions, maybe 2,3 or 4 times in a year, when a situation arises that entails deep discussion, or when an issue has cropped up that needs to be talked about and picked apart. He, by his own admission, is a rubbish communicator and finds it hard to talk about how he feels, this has always been the case and then things spiral into tit for tat and arguments occur.

The grabbing my arms incident was three years ago and the first time anything like that had ever happened. At the time I said afterwards if he ever did that again that would be it. It was the first time I'd known him be at that level of anger and maybe attributable to the fact we'd spent the best part of the previous week having endless disagreements/rows and it was the straw that broke the camels back. I've got pretty angry myself before, he ended up with a glass of prosecco in his lap during one argument so I guess that makes me a Husband abuser? 

Last week's incident was the first time he has got to that level of anger since then and he made no attempt to hurt me, just blocking the door and yelling at me. I was shouting back, but obviously not saying the stupid things that he was shouting. He was being an arsehole then yes and he agrees he was. He apologised profusely for being one too. 

Don't get me wrong we've had a lot of disagreements and yes he does employ blaming tactics, he does blank me if he's annoyed, he also does employ a level of gaslighting in the way he uses cause and effect for what he has said to me, on the odd occasion he has twisted things around, this is the level of his gaslighting and no more. He is, however, aware of this and has worked hard to change things, I honestly don't see it as something he consciously does, he is too emotionally incapable. I am not somebody who sits back and lets myself be manipulated and he knows I won't be, I am able to speak and say how I feel and tell him, he has never called me names or been maliciously hurtful. Perhaps in the past he's said a few stupid things, but only a few. So I have I, I'm sure.

My over riding concern with the reaction to me asking why he was lying was trying to decipher why it had escalated into such a scenario. I'm trying to work out my part so I too can try to resolve the issues we have.

I have no idea why he would say he'd deleted people/things off FB and genuinely believe he had. We all have forgetful moments. It was just an odd thing to say.
Why would he lie about that knowing full well I could check at any time anyway
Why get so irate about me suggesting he'd lied

I hope this has clarified things. Helpful advice is appreciated please but not unkind remarks that have no truth behind them.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Ok so it sounds like it’s escalated during the time he’s been chatting to chicks online? Is this a new thing for him?


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## Plum (Apr 29, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> Ok so it sounds like it’s escalated during the time he’s been chatting to chicks online? Is this a new thing for him?


I don't think he ever was talking to 'chicks' online. One was added as he knew her from going to Holland and she was on the same course as him and working for the same company. One was through a Motorbike club and one I think was something to do with a mutual friend, though they'd never met. 
The conversation was about respect and I asked if he thought it was respectful adding young, attractive Women to FB as opposed to me having a good looking actor as a screensaver, which he thought was disrespectful. That was all. Then he said it didn't matter anyway. In his words "I can assure you that I've unfriended them and removed them from FB as I scrubbed a load of things off last there last week that were getting on my nerves" 
He said he had a good rapport with the Dutch Woman, but they communicated through his work email, he said they had a good laugh and shared a lot of banter which was why he added her as a friend. I have no idea if he chatting to Women, I would imagine not.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

@Plum ...obviously I don't know you and your husband; like others here, we are going on the snippets that you chose to share. And I don't underestimate what those snippets mean as a lived experience.

You previously wrote that he was emotionally abusive. I am happy to stand corrected with this, however, it feels as though you are back-tracking or having a change of mind or perhaps something else with your stance. Why do you think that might be?

What puzzles me is that you acknowledge that you sometimes walk on eggshells around him, while not feeling that he would physically harm you and has never said anything nasty to you. If you were comfortable enough with him, then I wonder why you don't or can't just ask him to help you understand why he was 'so irate'?

I understand that some comments may feel unkind or unjustified. We each approach posts from our own world view and perspectives (which is no doubt why you're here, right?). As a random of the interwebz, however, I will say that from my perspective, having a glass of wine poured on your lap might not be the most classy or healthy way to deal with things, but it's a far cry from leaving 'finger-tip' bruising on your arms and behaving in a way that, in your words, recently had you feeling frightened and intimidated.


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## Plum (Apr 29, 2021)

heartsbeating said:


> @Plum ...obviously I don't know you and your husband; like others here, we are going on the snippets that you chose to share. And I don't underestimate what those snippets mean as a lived experience.
> 
> You previously wrote that he was emotionally abusive. I am happy to stand corrected with this, however, it feels as though you are back-tracking or having a change of mind or perhaps something else with your stance. Why do you think that might be?
> 
> ...


I get your points. I see him as emotionally abusive in the respect of giving the silent treatment or trying to justify behaviour by saying it was due to the other persons actions, blaming them for things, they are elements of emotional abuse, it wasn't the right choice of words perhaps. There are different levels of abuse so yes elements of it but not to the extent that he's a Wife beater/abuser or a total arsehole. 

I do ask him things and raise topics of concern, I'm not comfortable with it because it causes arguments and the conversation always end up going around full circle. Here's a recent example

Me = I felt ignored this afternoon as you were talking about cars all afternoon (with our Son) I felt like I may just as well have not been there.
Him "Well you should have made some effort to get involved in the conversation"
Me "I find cars incredibly boring so struggled to get involved"
Him "Why didn't you talk about something else then" 
Me "I couldn't get a word in edgeways. Surely you could see I was bored and not participating, it just would have been nice to have limited the car talk"" 
Him "Well it's not my fault you felt ignored, why shouldn't we talk about cars, how can you complain if you can't be bothered to get involved or make the effort to talk"
Me "I've explained"
Him "Oh so it's my fault is it that you felt ignored"
Me " I didn't say that I just said I felt ignored this afternoon"
Him "Well do something about it then next time, it's your fault you didn't bother to speak to us, so don't pin the blame on us because you can't be bothered to make the effort"
Me " I'll stay at home next time then, I'm sure you wouldn't like it if I spent the whole afternoon talking about something boring and ignoring you"
Him "Oh here we go, so you don't agree with my opinion then, why shouldn't I explain my side to you. You have to understand that there are two sides to everything. Why do you always disagree with me"

This is just a simple conversation that feels to me that I'm the one feeling hurt about something and I'm left feeling un listened to when I've tried to explain. He did the make the effort the next time we went out to avoid talking about cars. The reason I feel as if I walk on egg shells is because this is just a simple conversation, if I need to discuss something more serious or emotive it's much harder because a conversation will always go this way and I generally end up feeling confused and as if nothing has been resolved. I've started recording our talks to try and work out what is happening. It does seem there is always an element of me being the one who's at fault or should put in the effort to change a situation. 

Hope this gives some understanding of what I'm trying to explain.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

I absolutely stand by what I posted here. Don't like what I'm saying? Fine by me. Use the "ignore" function so you don't have to see any of my posts.

He'll likely continue to gaslight you, you will continue with the seemingly endless conversations, and you will continue to be convinced you are to blame for this mess. Your life. Your choice.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Ok maybe ‘chatting with chicks’ was a poor choice of words.

I keep Facebook for friends and family. I don’t add random hot buff men that I’ve met or haven’t met.

But if I did and my husband got upset about it, I think I’d get really defensive and abusive and he’d be walking on eggshells. Because how dare he!


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## Plum (Apr 29, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> Ok maybe ‘chatting with chicks’ was a poor choice of words.
> 
> I keep Facebook for friends and family. I don’t add random hot buff men that I’ve met or haven’t met.
> 
> But if I did and my husband got upset about it, I think I’d get really defensive and abusive and he’d be walking on eggshells. Because how dare he!


Yes , when you put it like that.... it was my comment asking why he'd lied about deleting them that triggered his ignoring me all day and then his anger, he said he didn't like being accused of lying. Going to try and tackle another conversation about why it got blown out of proportion.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Sounds a normal marriage to me. At least you can argue with him, I can't argue with my wife...  I don't think there is a solution. You are compatible in many ways, but you also have clashing personalities. He is not going to change after 32 years. Personally, I would not stay in a sexless marriage. You've lost your emotional connection and I think this is the reason of your issues.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> Sounds a normal marriage to me. At least you can argue with him, I can't argue with my wife...  I don't think there is a solution. You are compatible in many ways, but you also have clashing personalities. He is not going to change after 32 years. Personally, I would not stay in a sexless marriage. You've lost your emotional connection and I think this is the reason of your issues.


I don't think it sounds normal. I mean who getting in your face and yells or puts hands on the other. 

I know my marriage is unique and awesome but in 27 years. My husband has never yelled at me.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Anastasia6 said:


> I don't think it sounds normal. I mean who getting in your face and yells or puts hands on the other.
> 
> I know my marriage is unique and awesome but in 27 years. My husband has never yelled at me.


She says it only happened twice in 32 years. And he never touched her. We can twist facts, obviously. I don't think the OP will be back after her explation and the switf sentencing of her husband, despite her further complaints about being misunderstood. This is a big problem with this board.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Plum said:


> I get your points. I see him as emotionally abusive in the respect of giving the silent treatment or trying to justify behaviour by saying it was due to the other persons actions, blaming them for things, they are elements of emotional abuse, it wasn't the right choice of words perhaps. There are different levels of abuse so yes elements of it but not to the extent that he's a Wife beater/abuser or a total arsehole.
> 
> I do ask him things and raise topics of concern, I'm not comfortable with it because it causes arguments and the conversation always end up going around full circle. Here's a recent example
> 
> ...


This actually sounds reasonable on your husbands part. I mean if you didn't want to talk about cars try changing the subject or try getting involved. He can't be responsible for your feelings when there are three people who all know each other. This is your son. You can talk to him. I don't understand. 

How often do you two spend time with your son?
Why wouldn't he spend some attention on his son?
What am I missing here?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> She says it only happened twice in 32 years. And he never touched her. We can twist facts, obviously. I don't think the OP will be back after her explation and the switf sentencing of her husband, despite her further complaints about being misunderstood. This is a big problem with this board.


Look you can say what you want but It doesn't sound normal to me. 
First he did put his hands on her like 4 years ago it is in the thread. He then had this thing with the bathroom door. She herself says he is emotionally abusive. She complains that he won't have a conversation and is walking on eggshells because he will give her the silent treatment. Then there is a conversation she listed which kind of goes the other way with her feeling ignored because he is talking cars with their son. Somehow he is supposed to know she feels like she is being ignored and change the subject and include her.

None of this seems normal to me. Can this marriage work. Sure. Is the only problem her husband, I don't think so.


OP
For your part try to start taking responsibility for your own wishes and desires. In your example conversation, you wanted what from you husband? Did you want him to agree that he ignored you? or that he should have changed the conversation? You said that you didn't care to get involved in the conversation but then don't complain about how the conversation goes. If you want to talk about something else. Just say hey guys can we talk about something else. I just can't keep up with the car stuff. Son you have anyone special in your life?

I am assuming your son doesn't live at home since you been married 32 years. I know I'm so excited when my 22 year old wants to talk to us old folk that I don't care too much what the topic is so I'd let her talk about cars if she wanted. It seems your husband and your son were enjoying that conversation. If you felt left out you could have simply said something or change the subject yourself. I'm still confused as to how that is your husbands responsibility. Then I'm confused as to what you wanted him to do after the fact.

I know you did marriage counseling for a while and then stopped have you consider trying it again? When you two do talk have you consider what is worth disagreeing over. I'm not talking about eggshells here. But there are some personalities that seem to thrive on disagreement.

Third the starting friendships with the opposite sex is also not normal in many healthy relationships. Some think it no big deal others it's a big no-no. I do find it hypocritical that a actor that your will never meet on your screen saver is disrespectful but him starting a friendship and emailing and keeping in touch with a live person he has met is not in his mind? I'm sure if you started a friendship with a male he would object so what's up with that. The then lying about it is also weird. You didn't even ask, he volunteered that. Then when you caught him his reaction was over the top. 

Where there is smoke there is often times a fire or at least a stack of smoldering embers where a fire used to be.
You might need to start looking around. Huge personality changes and dissatisfaction with your spouse are often flags for someone in an Emotional Affair or a physical Affair.


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## Plum (Apr 29, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> This actually sounds reasonable on your husbands part. I mean if you didn't want to talk about cars try changing the subject or try getting involved. He can't be responsible for your feelings when there are three people who all know each other. This is your son. You can talk to him. I don't understand.
> 
> How often do you two spend time with your son?
> Why wouldn't he spend some attention on his son?
> What am I missing here?


We see my Son every day, he lives at home! I can make conversation and change the subject and yes I can make the effort to talk and frequently do. I'm well aware I can change any given situation. We go out together every weekend afternoon and they talk about cars non stop, for hours on end! That particular day it didn't matter how hard I tried to veer the topic to something else it went back to cars. Sorry but surely my Husband should have been aware I was bored senseless, it's pretty rude to bang on about a given subject for ages surely totally excluding somebody else? He'd be the first to complain if the boot had been on the other foot. Maybe I'm just a bit more considerate because I observe when somebody is looking bored and try to involve them. 
My Son's great, if I say to him can we talk about something else he'll say yeah sure sorry, I'll try not to talk cars too much and chat to me about something else. My OH wouldn't react the same way and that's my point. 

The way my OH reacts to me is the issue I'm raising, I didn't say it was his responsibility at all, he's not responsible for my feelings but he should be aware of how a situation makes me feel, if it makes me feel neglected and ignored. I was trying to point out how the subject gets turned around into being about me being opinionated and then telling me how I always disagree with what he says etc., That's pretty clear in the conversation.


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## Plum (Apr 29, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> She says it only happened twice in 32 years. And he never touched her. We can twist facts, obviously. I don't think the OP will be back after her explation and the switf sentencing of her husband, despite her further complaints about being misunderstood. This is a big problem with this board.


I couldn't agree more


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

In Absentia said:


> I don't think the OP will be back after her explation and the switf sentencing of her husband, despite her further complaints about being misunderstood. This is a big problem with this board.


Suggestion: Consider finding another forum/board more to your liking. Use the ignore function offered here.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I mean, obviously he just lied about that and then gaslighted you for it and flew into a rage you didn't just believe his lie so that life goes on as usual. You got into an ugly abusive type fight. It's never pretty when they're caught lying and/or don't get their way. Now you know what you're dealing with. AND then he blames YOU. If you don't know what gaslighting is, look it up. It's low. 

You thinking an actor is cute isn't even on the same par with him keeping in touch with someone he actually knows OR watching porn. 

Anyway, he was a jerk and then resorted to full on tantrum, which is dangerous, when he didn't get away with it. You really should call the police if he ever blocks your way trying to get away again. Not sure I wouldn't right now and take a photo of the bruise. You wouldn't have gotten it if he hadn't obstructed you trying to get away.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Plum said:


> No I don't if I'm honest. I've considered leaving many times. Trouble is I do love him, despite all the crap he has thrown my way over the years. Don't get me wrong, some days I loathe him for what he does to me, but part of me always thinks we can resolve this. I know his behaviour has changed me and I have no trust in him to be the person I would like him to truly be, on the flipside.


Please awake to this reality: There are people you can love but not live with, that you can forgive but not be safe around, that you might live with but that your kids shouldn't have as a role model taking that in. Love doesn't cure anything.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Anastasia6 said:


> I don't think it sounds normal. I mean who getting in your face and yells or puts hands on the other.
> 
> I know my marriage is unique and awesome but in 27 years. My husband has never yelled at me.


I agree. My husband has NEVER gotten up in my face, yelling, cornered me, blocked my path, or put his hands on me in any way out of frustration / anger / upset. Or vice verse I might add.

Been together over 25 years. I personally wouldn’t consider that kind of reaction as ‘typical’ in a marriage, nor would either of us put up with it. That’s my world view.


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## TurnedTurtle (May 15, 2019)

Just offering a different perspective to consider: for some people "Lying" implies malicious intent to deceive. If he did not have malicious intent when he told you he had unfriended these people from his facebook account, perhaps he doesn't see it as lying. Maybe because he thought he had done it but for some reason it didn't "take" (for example, maybe he missed pressing the final button acknowledging that he really did indeed want to unfriend these people, thinking that the previous button he had just pressed took care of it), or maybe he actually did delete them, but you had an older version of the page stuck in your browser cache, or, or,... there are lots of possibilities. 

Did you actually accuse him of outright lying? Or did you instead say something like "I thought you had deleted those people from your FB friends list, but I happened to be visiting your page this morning and it looks like they are still there," which HE then interpreted as you claiming he was lying?

I am not sure we fully understand the context of the initial trigger that got this argument rolling....

Generally, I think it is a bad idea to accuse a partner or friend of lying to us, unless we have very strong evidence that they indeed had purposeful, malicious intent to deceive us. Rather, I think a better approach would be to inquire about what they said, what they did, and what their intent was, to get at the truth in a more constructive and less-threatening way. Unless of course we are hoping to get into an argument and put the other on the defensive...


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