# Should I out the POSOM or is it vindictive?



## Wideopn Dave (Apr 11, 2013)

I have put my story up previously. I now have a renewed rage since I discovered my ex has been living with the "karate kid" for some months already.....don't want anything to do with her but I feel like blowing his little world apart.

Was thinking of printing this out and giving it out at his karate classes;

"Do you know “Shihan”, Mr K****n D*****ls?

Hello folks,

I thought it was appropriate that as parents of young kids attending karate classes at H*****y Karate, you were made aware of the conduct and behaviour of the “Shihan” of Highway Karate, Mr K****n D****ls.

Mr D****ls expects of your children that they should respect him, and the dojo of H****y Karate. Mr D****ls expects that all should adhere to the “five principals” (yet only four are listed as quoted below off the website) by applying them to ALL areas of their lives. 

Maxims of Budo Karate-Do
Apply these FIVE PRINCIPLES of Budo Karate-Do to all areas of your life

HONOUR
DUTY
RESPECT
HUMILITY

Well folks, the man who expects this of your children does not apply these “maxims” to his own life. No, Mr D****s is a “man” who is less than honourable and who has no respect. As to whether he performs his “duty” and has “humility”, well I don’t know the answer to that.

What I CAN tell you is that Mr D****ls is a “man” who sneaks into the family home of another man to sleep with that man’s wife. He is no “man”, he is a coward!!

What I CAN tell you is that when caught by the daughter of the other man “in the act”, he became a willing participant in the cover up of the affair so that the poor child’s father was kept in the dark and continued to believe he had a loving wife. Honourable? Not so much…… 

What I CAN tell you is that when the other man discovered this betrayal by sheer happenstance 3 months later, and he confronted Mr D****ls, who said he was very sorry and would leave the other man’s wife alone; that he would never contact her again.

What I CAN tell you is that Mr D****ls lied about this and maintained his part in an affair which continued unabated despite the other man’s wife entering counselling and pledging to her husband to end all contact with Mr D****ls and telling the husband she loved him…. 

What I CAN tell you is that the other man’s daughter required therapy to deal with this trauma and Mr D****ls’ lack of respect for the sanctity of marriage has resulted in a young woman losing her mother figure.

Folks, I CAN tell you these things because I am the other man……….

This “man”, Mr D****ls, who calls upon the children in his Dojo to abide by these maxims, who requires the children who enter his Dojo to respect these principles and apply them in their lives is unable to apply them in his own life.

The H*****y Karate website goes on to say, under Dojo Rules and Etiquette, inter alia the following;

13.	“Treat your Dojo with respect, it is your sanctuary.”

Well Mr D****ls, my home was MY sanctuary yet you had no respect for that………

Mr D****ls played a pivotal role in the catastrophic destruction of a family through selfish disregard, a lack of respect and he has proven through his actions that he has no honour!!!!

Is “Shihan” K***n D****ls really a good role model????

You decide………."


That out to blow his world apart and I can put his name in because it is fact, indisputable fact!

Am i just being vindictive?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Write it from his perspective, not yours. Don't mention yourself in the first person at all.


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## movin on (Jan 24, 2012)

If my kid was in his class I would want to know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Why involve the children? Really.

Take it man to man. Call him out on it to his face.

Isn't that a form of loitering - your plan of handing out papers at a place of business...to a bunch of innocent kids?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Wideopn Dave said:


> What I CAN tell you is that Mr D****ls is a “man” who sneaks into the family home of another man to sleep with that man’s wife. He is no “man”, he is a coward!!


I am picturing this in my head and it's like a movie.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

yeah out the POSOM if he did nothing wrong then he should not fear people knowing what he did.

agree with Gus regarding the changes, remember just write facts of what happened, no rumors no deductions, just what you can prove (just in case it come back to you).


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Why involve the children? Really.
> 
> Take it man to man. Call him out on it to his face.
> 
> Isn't that a form of loitering - your plan of handing out papers at a place of business...to a bunch of innocent kids?


nosenses, how outing him to himself is exposure or enforcing consequences.

he should out him to the kids parents


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Can't he be charged with harassment if he goes to a place of business to do this?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

movin on said:


> If my kid was in his class I would want to know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, ditto.

Maybe something along the lines of...

"Hi, my name is D**chey McD*ckhole and I teach karate to children.

I teach my students the five principles of blah, blah, and blah.

But there is a sixth principle that I don't mention, and that's 'Do as I say, not as I do.'

Why? Well, because I like to seduce married women. This one time, I did this, this, this, and this.

I even continued to do all of these things after her husband found out. Even after I told her husband that I'd stop. Even after she and her husband enrolled in marriage counseling, and she professed her undying love to him, and lied to him and told him and the MC that we were over.

Now their daughter -- who walked in on us -- is in therapy, and I'm still doing it.

So parents... Think twice before letting your kids spend time around me.

And husbands... Think twice before letting your wives spend time around me."


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

manticore said:


> nosenses, how outing him to himself is exposure or enforcing consequences.
> 
> he should out him to the kids parents


How is loitering "nonsense." He could be charged with it. As well as other things.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

e3He did not respect your home.

He should realize that there are consequences.

Do you have any billboards in your area near his place?

Or take out an ad in your local newspaper?

Maybe he should relocate to a different state? 

Have you gotten a police permit to picket his place?

I would want my kids to know. The OM of my friends ex-wife is now in jail for sex with with a 14 year old. Really a classy guy-not.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

And whoa... wait a minute. I thought we were talking about doing this via CV and not printing anything out.

Uhhh... yeah... printing out flyers and handing them out could get you in hot water.

If you decide to go for it, leave out any details that could tie him back to you, especially the part about your daughter walking in on them.

Just to be clear, though -- I'm not advocating this at all. I can understand wanting to put the screws to him, but don't do anything that could land you in jail.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Wideopn Dave said:


> Am i just being vindictive?


Not as far as I'm concerned! Oh, and by the way, it's OK to be vindictive after what you have been through. Those who tell you differently are just blowing smoke.

While you are exposing him and ruining his life, you should be doing the same and more to your EX, because she deserves it more.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

movin on said:


> If my kid was in his class I would want to know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I tend to agree, but also wonder how your assessment of classrooms in general applies here as well?
My WW is a teacher and destroyed my life, my children's lives and our entire family, and has also directly resulted in the demise of 3 other families all with children. None of these families were within the state we reside in or were associated with her classroom in any way, but would you still also want to know the same about your child's school teacher, even if no inappropriateness occurred within the school settings? 

This is where I waiver, as I see her trying to teach morality when she herself exhibits none. She will tell my children all the time that she teaches her children that if you hurt someone whether intended or not, you must apologize. I asked her so where are our apologies. She just got up and walked out of the room. She is so hypocritical it is not even remotely funny.

Would you want to know these things in this situation as well, as part of me thinks the families have a right to know, the other says that she does deserve a life outside of school as well (even if she chooses to live it amorally)?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Dave,

I don't blame you for wanting to attempt to ruin the POSOM's business. I'd do the same if I could.

But if it were me, I'd try to look at a way that was a little more covert; a little more subtle. Some way that wouldn't shine the spot light back on myself - though some of that may be unavoidable.

Websites, consumer ratings boards, blogs, e-mails. Things like that. Just my 2 cents.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> I tend to agree, but also wonder how your assessment of classrooms in general applies here as well
> ?
> My WW is a teacher and destroyed my life, my children's lives and our entire family, and has also directly resulted in the demise of 3 other families all with children. None of these families were within the state we reside in or were associated with her classroom in any way, but would you still also want to know the same about your child's school teacher, even if no inappropriateness occurred within the school settings?
> 
> ...


Ugh
Do as I say don't do as I do.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> How is loitering "nonsense." He could be charged with it. As well as other things.


that is why we are giving him advices as the one form Gus and this one:



manticore said:


> yeah out the POSOM if he did nothing wrong then he should not fear people knowing what he did.
> 
> agree with Gus regarding the changes, remember just write facts of what happened, no rumors no deductions, just what you can prove (just in case it come back to you).


and I called nosenses this *"Take it man to man. Call him out on it to his face".*

this will not bring consequences to the OM at all, and it the worst case scenario could end in a fist fight which will really bring him legal problems.

that is why I called it nosenses


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

manticore said:


> this will not bring consequences to the OM at all, *and it the worst case scenario could end in a fist fight which will really bring him legal problems.*


And the same could be said for showing up at his workplace distributing literature.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

I would not give children anything. Their parents, that to me is different. 

Good luck
WD
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> And the same could be said for showing up at his workplace distributing literature.



True he should probably do this on the side walk in front of the business then he would be protect by the first amendment if we still have that in this country


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

convert said:


> then he would be protect by the first amendment if we still have that in this country


I'm fairly certain the Constitution isn't going anywhere unless you know something I don't. 

Loitering though is still a viable charge though. As well as harassmment.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Yeah... don't hand anything to kids. In fact, I wouldn't be handing anything to anyone. Well, unless they asked, of course. And then I would have special "coupons" printed up... maybe something offering a free "wife-bang" (or how the hell ever you'd go about saying something like that) w/ each new enrollment. 

Papering windshields might be different, though. Hell, hand a stack of papers to a couple of homeless guys w/ 20 bucks each and have them do it.

And honestly, I wouldn't care about taking an ass-kicking. That would land OM in a whole lot more hot water than OP would bring down on himself just for handing out flyers.

Flyers that just happen to contain factual information, nonetheless.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> And the same could be said for showing up at his workplace distributing literature.





convert said:


> True he should probably do this on the side walk in front of the business then he would be protect by the first amendment if we still have that in this country


and that is why I wrote:



manticore said:


> *remember just write facts of what happened, no rumors no deductions, just what you can prove (just in case it come back to you).*


In this way he also can not be charged for difamation and is totally covered legaly speaking, also is very important to give it just to the parents not to the kids, so he should take adventage of the leaving hours (after the class) to identify the parents that are picking up their kids.

I would say to the parents something like, "*just so you know what kind of man is giving class to your kids*" (that will call their attention and make the read the pamphlet at home).


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

^^ agree
and to be charged with loitering while handing out factual information might be a violation of his civil liberties.


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## botti (May 28, 2014)

Yes, it's vindictive. No matter your method or why you do it, deliberately seeking revenge on someone is vindictive.

I'd leave the kids out of it.

I'm sorry you are going through this  Sounds awful.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You mention 'vindictive' like it's a *bad* thing!:scratchhead::rofl:

Go for it. If you can't user Cheaterville, set up a free blog and email the links to folks.

And is he *really* as old as he looks?:scratchhead::rofl:

You already outed him a bit, so go all the way!


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

yes don't hand the info to the kids the just the parents OP could help save someones else's marriage


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Why involve the children? Really.
> 
> Take it man to man. Call him out on it to his face.
> 
> Isn't that a form of loitering - your plan of handing out papers at a place of business...to a bunch of innocent kids?


Man to man? This is real life. In real life that kind of confrontation rarely goes well and can result in fights. In this case between martial arts experts?

That's not a good idea.


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## happi_g_more2 (Jan 27, 2014)

Post it as a review on yelp, if he has a facebook page, post it there. You can also track down the facbook of his followers and facebook them or tweet them. Lastely, on a weekday, summer afternoon, find 16-20 year old hanging around an pay him 50 bucks to go to the dojo and put them on cars in the parking lot. you can even print it in yellow paper, fold it like a chineese restaurants menu. Dude wont notice till the **** hits the fan. Make sure you do this in a fashion that it cant get linked back to you so he cant sue you.


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## happi_g_more2 (Jan 27, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Man to man? This is real life. In real life that kind of confrontation rarely goes well and can result in fights. In this case between martial arts experts?
> 
> That's not a good idea.


I couldnt agree more. what is this, the wild west. guy is a dirtbag. you have every reason to continuously out him to the rest of the world. If I were, you Id do all this, THEN confront him with a buddy and a video camera hiding in the bushes. if he hits you, then you take him to court, sue him and his business. Im a believer in putting the screws to guys that phuck other guys wifes....but thats just me


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Man to man? This is real life. In real life that kind of confrontation rarely goes well and can result in fights. In this case between martial arts experts?
> 
> That's not a good idea.


So going to his workplace and distributing pamphlets to his clients/their children IS a good idea? Really? And doing it that way would somehow not result in a physical altercation at all whatsoever?



MattMatt said:


> And is he *really* as old as he looks?:scratchhead::rofl:
> 
> You already outed him a bit, so go all the way!


Where did he out him? To TAM?


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

All you probably need to do is take a couple of the dads aside and tell them exactly what happened. It will spread like wildfire, and some parents would likely pull their kids out. Remember DADS not MOMS. If my kid was at this dojo, and some other dad pulled me aside and told me this story - first step would be I would tell my wife - and the women would run rampant with it. Also, I think mysteriously there would be other dads starting to look at other dojos for their kids.

See if you do it that way, there is no libel or slander. No proof. You told a couple of people a true story. That is all. The rest of the work will be done for you.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Doh I forgot to answer the actual thread title question...

Yes, it's vindictive. But you know that.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Doh I forgot to answer the actual thread title question...
> 
> Yes, it's vindictive. But you know that.





MattMatt said:


> You mention 'vindictive' like it's a *bad* thing!:scratchhead::rofl:


:yawn2:


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

You're just going to wind up being labelled an "angry, bitter" ass by most people, and some will say, "no wonder she...".

If she's gone, then you should focus on yourself and your kids if you have them. How can you heal if you keep your focus on them and keep re-living this nonsense?

File for divorce if you haven't, and go no-contact, and you'll thank me later.

Try to maintain some dignity.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

TimeHeals said:


> You're just going to wind up being labelled an "angry, bitter" ass by most people, and some will say, "no wonder she...".
> 
> If she's gone, then you should focus on yourself and your kids if you have them. How can you heal if you keep your focus on them and keep re-living this nonsense?
> 
> ...


I have to agree with this. I think you mentioned having a new GF in the other thread? Also, in your original thread didn't you beat the crap out of the guy already? Statistically speaking, their relationship will fall apart since the trust shouldn't be there since they're known cheaters. Better to concentrate on living the good life on your terms.

But I can appreciate why you would want to hurt the guy. But at the end of the day, it's the wife that betrayed you. Get revenge on her if you must.


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

Vindictive? Yes. Is that wrong? meh. Sometime closure calls for action.

But. I would do a consultation with a lawyer so as to steer clear of any grounds for a lawsuit. I think if you are on a sidewalk handing out flyers you are ok. 

I'm not a lawyer myself but I do watch a lot of crime drama's on T.V.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Iver said:


> I'm not a lawyer myself but I do watch a lot of crime drama's on T.V.


Did you happen to stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night?


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## Wideopn Dave (Apr 11, 2013)

Hey everyone,

Thanks for all the comments. Wow! Some very diverse opinions on a rather contentious subject for sure.

Thought it appropriate to clarify a few points.

Firstly. No way would I (nor had I) ever contemplate handing ANYTHING to kids. It was always intended that this would be handed to parents of the kids going to his classes.

These classes to which I refer are run at 2 x local schools and I had considered writing also to the Headmasters of both schools to advise them of the conduct of the "tenant" using their facilities.

Secondly, yes the "is this vindictive" part was rather a rhetorical question because yes it is vindictive and with good reason. He deserves it.

In this regard, yes I accept that my ex wife is 50% (at a minimum) to blame but lets also remember that when I found out about this **** in Feb 2013, I confronted this POS and scared the heck out of him threatening him with legal consequences for his actions up til that point. He was genuinely scared because he phoned my ex (she told me he had) and said I was going to sue him. He then apologised to me and swore he would stay away. He didn't and THAT is why he deserves (in my humble opinion) to get what's coming.

Third point. This is South Africa. We don't have the same punitive damages laws / lawsuits that happen in the USA. So in that regard, I could stand outside the schools / at traffic lights in town and hand out FACTUAL information without ever being at risk of him (successfully) suing me. Besides, the ******* doesn't have the money to run the court action anyway:rofl:

Now, to some of the other points made. Yes, I do have a concern that there is a potential "backlash" of me sounding bitter and twisted. I have nothing to left to loose except my dignity and sometimes in life, one must be prepared to get down and dirty.

Of course, my daughter lives with me and that frankly is the ONLY reason thus far that I haven't gone ahead with this. I fear ONLY her being upset with me over the backlash which would affect her mother from my sending this outing.

I would not want my daughter to be disappointed in me which I think, if I'm honest, she may well be.

So, I'm left with the knowledge that this POS will get away with having come into my home, screwed my wife, cost me a divorce, almost cost me my business through lack of input as I went to the edge of depression over this. I sometimes think the 60 yr old POS is laughing behind my back and THAT gets me to the point of doing something like this just to see the smirk on his face disappear

To answer another point raised, there is the option of doing this on Facebook as he has a page for his karate lessons.....again, factual information is what it is and he cannot sue me for defamation if its FACT.

Let me have those comments.....if nothing else TAMers, "talking" it out like this is therapy from good folks.:smnotworthy:


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## beyondrepair (Aug 17, 2013)

I'm not sure if you mentioned it, but do both families and your close friends know about the A? 

Although I totally understand about being vengeful, best revenge will be about living a full life again, with your kids and someone who deserves your trust.

If you do decide going ahead with it, hope it gives you some closure.

Hate is a powerful emotion and can eat at you, I only began feeling better when I was able to let go of it, although i did feel strong relapses now and then.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> So going to his workplace and distributing pamphlets to his clients/their children IS a good idea? Really? And doing it that way would somehow not result in a physical altercation at all whatsoever?
> 
> 
> 
> Where did he out him? To TAM?


Yep. In this very thread. Google is your friend. But not Karate Kid's friend. Though 'Karate Gramps' might be more apposite, I think.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Wideopn Dave said:


> In this regard, yes I accept that my ex wife is 50% (at a minimum) to blame


This, my man, is where you and many others are wrong. Your ex old lady is 100% to blame she slept with another guy. When you realize this your mind will be at ease not thinking, "If only this guy hadn't have showed up".


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> This, my man, is where you and many others are wrong. Your ex old lady is 100% to blame she slept with another guy. When you realize this your mind will be at ease not thinking, "If only this guy hadn't have showed up".


Sorry but I don't believe this. Just because you were once the OM to many WS's, and it eases *YOUR* mind and allows you to live with yourself to place the blame squarely on the WS doesn't make it so. If she had just wanted sex she could have gotten that at home with her BS, she slept with him and he allowed it to happen, so he had responsibility as well as it was his choice and he knew that she was married. He had no honor or morals so we should just let him be? Heck, no! For him to be alleviated of all blame then he would have had to pass on this offer (even if she was begging for it) as he knew what is right and wrong and made his choice just as she did. By this logic then nothing that happened in the marriage should be considered in any way, shape, or form related to the A the WS decided to have, but everyone wants to say it was issues in the M that drove the WS to the point where they CHOSE their decision to betray and attribute half of that responsibility to the BS. I cyr foul, if the OM has no responsibility then neither does the BS, as the BS was faced with the same issues and chose to remain faithful.

Do you believe that you should have no responsibility in your car getting stolen, even if you left the keys in it and it idling at the curb, because the thief wanted to steal it, it is all on them? If not this thief then it would have been another.

Your friend wanted to rob a bank and offered you half the take to ride along with them and hold the bag as they emptied out the cash drawer, so you should be completely exonerated and have no responsibility or be punished for the crime since it wasn't your idea and you just went along with their idea, right?


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## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

Do it.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Dave, I have spent a lot of time in Jo'burg/Sandton, Durban, Cape Town and even Pretoria - with Afrikaaners and Anglos. I know where you are coming from and say go for it. Destroy the m'f***ker. Do what you need to do and make him pay for it. In SA speak - be the man!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

manfromlamancha said:


> Dave, I have spent a lot of time in Jo'burg/Sandton, Durban, Cape Town and even Pretoria - with Afrikaaners and Anglos. I know where you are coming from and say go for it. Destroy the m'f***ker. Do what you need to do and make him pay for it. In SA speak - be the man!


Dave can be the robot at the junction to stop the POSOM's vehicle of sleaze.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Wideopn Dave said:


> Secondly, yes the "is this vindictive" part was rather a rhetorical question because yes it is vindictive and with good reason. He deserves it.
> 
> In this regard, yes I accept that my ex wife is 50% (at a minimum) to blame but lets also remember that when I found out about this **** in Feb 2013, I confronted this POS and scared the heck out of him threatening him with legal consequences for his actions up til that point. He was genuinely scared because he phoned my ex (she told me he had) and said I was going to sue him. He then apologised to me and swore he would stay away. He didn't and THAT is why he deserves (in my humble opinion) to get what's coming.


But you are not a judge, you are not God, and it's not your place to decide what this guy deserves. I'm going to disagree with many people here and say that no, IMHO, you should not do this. 

Have you done anything bad in your life yourself? Have you cheated on anyone or anything? What if someone put that on a flyer and passed it around?

Your wife is the one who broke vows with you, not him, so your argument should be with her. If you want to "out" anyone it should be her. But I recommend you drop the whole thing. You say you don't want your ex-wife back, so what are you going to actually gain by this?

I certainly understand your anger, and it's natural to want revenge, but your focus here should be more on the future than the past.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

I think the whole thing is being overthought way too much. He dug into you cookie jar with purpose, and intent, disregarding all moral and honorable behaviour.

Screw the POSOM, and blow him up anyway you can.


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## bbdad (Feb 11, 2013)

I say be very vindictive and deceitful. This guy is teaching 'karate' and likely just a McDojo guy. I doubt he could fight his way out of a paper bag. I would go and study Muay Thai for a year or two. Then I would go and enroll in his school after. At some point, there will be sparring. Any decent instructor will spar with his students to help them. At that point, you just accidentally not pull a kick or punch. You send his butt scooting across the floor with a well placed kick. It was just an inexperienced student getting a bit over excited with the opportunity to spar with the instructor, so no issues with legal.

Then, after that class, you walk out and never look back. That way, he knows you got the best of him and can do it at any opportunity you choose. Even if you never go that far, you get the fun times and exercise of learning a great art/sport in Muay Thai.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

bbdad said:


> I say be very vindictive and deceitful. This guy is teaching 'karate' and likely just a McDojo guy. I doubt he could fight his way out of a paper bag. I would go and study Muay Thai for a year or two. Then I would go and enroll in his school after. At some point, there will be sparring. Any decent instructor will spar with his students to help them. At that point, you just accidentally not pull a kick or punch. You send his butt scooting across the floor with a well placed kick. It was just an inexperienced student getting a bit over excited with the opportunity to spar with the instructor, so no issues with legal.
> 
> Then, after that class, you walk out and never look back. That way, he knows you got the best of him and can do it at any opportunity you choose. Even if you never go that far, you get the fun times and exercise of learning a great art/sport in Muay Thai.


He lives in SA. he need not try so hard if he is out for revenge


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## Wideopn Dave (Apr 11, 2013)

bbdad said:


> I say be very vindictive and deceitful. This guy is teaching 'karate' and likely just a McDojo guy. I doubt he could fight his way out of a paper bag. I would go and study Muay Thai for a year or two. Then I would go and enroll in his school after. At some point, there will be sparring. Any decent instructor will spar with his students to help them. At that point, you just accidentally not pull a kick or punch. You send his butt scooting across the floor with a well placed kick. It was just an inexperienced student getting a bit over excited with the opportunity to spar with the instructor, so no issues with legal.
> 
> Then, after that class, you walk out and never look back. That way, he knows you got the best of him and can do it at any opportunity you choose. Even if you never go that far, you get the fun times and exercise of learning a great art/sport in Muay Thai.


Some interesting facts on this scum. He calls himself "Shihan"; he is only 5th dan and all research I have done reveals that the titel Shihan is only applied to 7th Dan onwards.... Maybe you're right about the McDojo part.:rofl:


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

My daughter trained in TKD until she was 16. Had to choose between that, and HS sports, and sadly discontinued. The main instructor at her school is now a Grand Master, 9th Dan. He's older now, but I still wouldn't put money on any young tough vs him.

When I first met him he was really something. A guy that oozed power and confidence. Took over any room he walked into. I would lift weights while she was in class. He was always telling me "I give you more strength in 1 hour than in a week lifting weights." I was just too embarrassed to get out there and put on a white belt.

He was the real deal, and pretty much held his tongue, but didn't like some of the other instructors around. It showed at competitions, too.


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## Wideopn Dave (Apr 11, 2013)

Forest said:


> My daughter trained in TKD until she was 16. Had to choose between that, and HS sports, and sadly discontinued. The main instructor at her school is now a Grand Master, 9th Dan. He's older now, but I still wouldn't put money on any young tough vs him.
> 
> When I first met him he was really something. A guy that oozed power and confidence. Took over any room he walked into. I would lift weights while she was in class. He was always telling me "I give you more strength in 1 hour than in a week lifting weights." I was just too embarrassed to get out there and put on a white belt.
> 
> He was the real deal, and pretty much held his tongue, but didn't like some of the other instructors around. It showed at competitions, too.


I haven't seen any of these Karate / TKD / Jujitsu types who is bullet proof. And last time I checked my "draw to slide back" grouping was the size of a coke can bottom at 30m. I wouldn't bet against myself and dip**** knows it :rofl:

However, I am more a student of the "death by a thousand cuts" school. I want the POS to suffer humiliation, embarrassment, the sideways stares, knowing glances at functions that comes with being "outed" for a lying cheating scum.....

I say again though, the only thing that stops me is the potential fallout that may affect my daughter and that she is more precious to me than the satisfaction I MAY get from outing this POS.

Thank you all for the comments.....

I will leave with this thought;

"If you go out to seek revenge, first dig 2 graves......"


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Wideopn Dave said:


> "If you go out to seek revenge, first dig 2 graves......"


One for POSOM and one for ex?


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## Wideopn Dave (Apr 11, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> One for POSOM and one for ex?


:smthumbup::rofl: you're a legend Gus


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Wideopn Dave said:


> I have put my story up previously. I now have a renewed rage since I discovered my ex has been living with the "karate kid" for some months already.....don't want anything to do with her but I feel like blowing his little world apart.


For some reason this thread reminds me of this


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Wideopn Dave said:


> :smthumbup::rofl: you're a legend Gus


I'm frequently told this, though it's usually followed by "...in your own mind." Hell, I'll admit it... that's accurate.

:smthumbup:


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Wideopn Dave said:


> I haven't seen any of these Karate / TKD / Jujitsu types who is bullet proof. And last time I checked my "draw to slide back" grouping was the size of a coke can bottom at 30m. I wouldn't bet against myself and dip**** knows it :rofl:
> 
> However, I am more a student of the "death by a thousand cuts" school. I want the POS to suffer humiliation, embarrassment, the sideways stares, knowing glances at functions that comes with being "outed" for a lying cheating scum.....
> 
> ...


Oh, this all sounds fine. The more damaging and hurtful the better. I've said it before, but I find all those sayings about how revenge hurts the betrayed, blah blah, to be empty philosophy. Two graves?

Hell, POSOM dug both of them when he went after a married woman. The betrayed husband got both feet forced in by the affair. Time to make sure POSOM lands in his face first.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> Your friend wanted to rob a bank and offered you half the take to ride along with them and hold the bag as they emptied out the cash drawer, so you should be completely exonerated and have no responsibility or be punished for the crime since it wasn't your idea and you just went along with their idea, right?


Your augment than is, "Judge, my client should only get half the jail time because he only took half the take" Here's what it sounds like to me. The betrayed husband, regardless of his treatment of his wife, gets none of the blame. The wife, at best or worse depending on how you look at it, get a maximum of 50% but that is forgiven if reconciliation takes place, and the OM gets his face on Cheatersville with the intention of doing him serious harm. 
What you are really saying is the opposite of what you believe I feel. Everybody is exonerated except the other man. He is the whipping boy for the entire "misdemeanor".
I'll stick with what I said. If some guy feels like crap because he caught his old lady cheating, she totally responsible for the way he feels. If she'd resisted laying down with another man, the husband wouldn't be in the shape he's in.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Your augment than is, "Judge, my client should only get half the jail time because he only took half the take" Here's what it sounds like to me. The betrayed husband, regardless of his treatment of his wife, gets none of the blame. The wife, at best or worse depending on how you look at it, get a maximum of 50% but that is forgiven if reconciliation takes place, and the OM gets his face on Cheatersville with the intention of doing him serious harm.
> What you are really saying is the opposite of what you believe I feel. Everybody is exonerated except the other man. He is the whipping boy for the entire "misdemeanor".
> I'll stick with what I said. If some guy feels like crap because he caught his old lady cheating, she totally responsible for the way he feels. If she'd resisted laying down with another man, the husband wouldn't be in the shape he's in.


This sounds like the thought process of an OM, not a BH.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> Your augment than is, "Judge, my client should only get half the jail time because he only took half the take" Here's what it sounds like to me. The betrayed husband, regardless of his treatment of his wife, gets none of the blame. The wife, at best or worse depending on how you look at it, get a maximum of 50% but that is forgiven if reconciliation takes place, and the OM gets his face on Cheatersville with the intention of doing him serious harm.
> What you are really saying is the opposite of what you believe I feel. Everybody is exonerated except the other man. He is the whipping boy for the entire "misdemeanor".
> I'll stick with what I said. If some guy feels like crap because he caught his old lady cheating, she totally responsible for the way he feels. If she'd resisted laying down with another man, the husband wouldn't be in the shape he's in.


I would think that a BS with children would refrain from using things such as CV, etc to demonize his/her WS or ex. That's not to say that the BS wouldn't feel the urge to do so, but, for the kids' sake, some restraint would seem to be in order. Let OMW/OWH concern themselves with this.

But hey, no kids? Go for it.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Dave opened it up when he said, "don't want anything to do with her but I feel like blowing his little world apart." and later said he knows she's 50 % to blame. I questioned his logic. 
Let me frame it a little different than I did in the above post. If you and I stopped by a bar for a drink, got distracted and you missed your daughters piano recital, are you only 50% responsible?


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Dave opened it up when he said, "don't want anything to do with her but I feel like blowing his little world apart." and later said he knows she's 50 % to blame. I questioned his logic.
> Let me frame it a little different than I did in the above post. If you and I stopped by a bar for a drink, got distracted and you missed your daughters piano recital, are you only 50% responsible?


So you're comparing the fault and responsibility of adultery to the fault and responsibility of missing a dance recital to make a point? I question YOUR logic.

That kind of situation is polar opposite of what's going on here in the not so wonderful world of betrayal.

Gotta do better than that to sway my opinion.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

3putt said:


> Gotta do better than that to sway my opinion.


Ok 3putt, I'll ratchet it up a bit. Suppose instead of a recital, youre more than a little late for your planned anniversary dinner and screw up the reservations. Are you only 50% to blame?
Bear in mind I'm not getting into the seriousness of the offense. I'm referring to the degree of responsibility for the damage.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Ok 3putt, I'll ratchet it up a bit. Suppose instead of a recital, youre more than a little late for your planned anniversary dinner and screw up the reservations. Are you only 50% to blame?
> Bear in mind I'm not getting into the seriousness of the offense. I'm referring to the degree of responsibility for the damage.


Just SMH


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> Your augment than is, "Judge, my client should only get half the jail time because he only took half the take" Here's what it sounds like to me. The betrayed husband, regardless of his treatment of his wife, gets none of the blame. The wife, at best or worse depending on how you look at it, get a maximum of 50% but that is forgiven if reconciliation takes place, and the OM gets his face on Cheatersville with the intention of doing him serious harm.
> What you are really saying is the opposite of what you believe I feel. Everybody is exonerated except the other man. He is the whipping boy for the entire "misdemeanor".
> I'll stick with what I said. If some guy feels like crap because he caught his old lady cheating, she totally responsible for the way he feels. If she'd resisted laying down with another man, the husband wouldn't be in the shape he's in.



No matter the equations, proportions, or other factors involved, I fail to see how any of this should get in the way of blowing to pieces the life of a man who touched another man's wife.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Move on and do not give them another moment.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

botti said:


> Yes, it's vindictive. No matter your method or why you do it, deliberately seeking revenge on someone is vindictive.


And revenge is sweet. Damned sweet. Savor it.

But this is why Cheaterville exists. Use it.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Forest said:


> No matter the equations, proportions, or other factors involved, I fail to see how any of this should get in the way of blowing to pieces the life of a man who touched another man's wife.


Not arguing that. My point to Dave is his old lady is not 50% to blame for the destruction of the marriage. She's 100% to blame because she had 100% control of who she slept with.
I agree the OM is a 50% corespondent and may deserve retribution. Compare it to a wife who hires a hit man to off her husband. Some folks believe she's 50% to blame for her husbands death. I'm in a group that feels that's far too conservative. 
I realize I'm stirring up a hornets nest with some folks, but ain't the wife, or husband as the case may be, responsible to keep other people out of their pants. And you have to remember if a spouse is on the prowl, the particular affair partner is the person whose number come up.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> And you have to remember if a spouse is on the prowl, the particular affair partner is the person whose number come up.


Quite true, but traditionally the interloper has a price to pay.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> Not arguing that. My point to Dave is his old lady is not 50% to blame for the destruction of the marriage. She's 100% to blame because she had 100% control of who she slept with.
> I agree the OM is a 50% corespondent and may deserve retribution. Compare it to a wife who hires a hit man to off her husband. Some folks believe she's 50% to blame for her husbands death. I'm in a group that feels that's far too conservative.
> I realize I'm stirring up a hornets nest with some folks, but ain't the wife, or husband as the case may be, responsible to keep other people out of their pants. And you have to remember if a spouse is on the prowl, the particular affair partner is the person whose number come up.


Can you read lips?










LOL


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> Quite true, but traditionally the interloper has a price to pay.


I agree with that. There's a danger in messing with a married gal and the OM usually knows it or better know it. Its bad for me to say but that's part of the intrigue.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Can you read lips?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually I cannot. But I do understand argumentum ad hominem.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Ha! Seriously, I wasn't attacking you.

The linked GIF is taken from a scene in the movie "Friday". In that specific scene, the character "Smokey" -- portrayed by actor Chris Tucker -- is exclaiming, "I don't give a f*ck!"

That's all I was saying. I suppose I could have just typed it but hey, movie references FTW.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> And revenge is sweet. Damned sweet. Savor it.
> 
> But this is why Cheaterville exists. Use it.


I don't get why people want to go all PC and say things like this is vindictive or that is vindictive. So what? If it helps the BS with closure, then I say go for it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

don't refer to yourself as the 'other man'. Always refer to yourself as 'the husband', That drives eh point home.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

First off throw that whole vindicative BS spin out of the window. You are the offended one. You get to choose who deserves what, for offending you. There is plenty of blame to go around. This is your choice and you only have to justify it to yourself. I understand why you would have nothing to do with your wife but want to square things with this poacher. Your call entirely. As they say though ... dig two graves. Do NOT go into this halfway. He is likely to kick the bejesus out of you FWIW. So be prepared for that.

I am not a BS. But I do hold people accountable in the way of my own choosing. Period. Others have no right to decide how I should feel or what I should do about it. Totally my own call.

Also I happen to believe in the Bushido Code.

But realize that it is not uncommon for certain Karate Masters to have enormous egos to go along with who they are. I happen to know of one who is almost 70 years old who is somewhat famous and I will leave it at that, who regulary beds much younger women ( 30s and 40s ) who come to his studio as students, instructors or moms. @sshole? Sure. He is married BTW. His teachings are more into the competitive aspects of Karate but not everyone defines honor the same way. He is incredibly forward about his approach. 

Elvis lost his wife to their Karate instructor BTW. The relationship with the master can be a draw for certain women especially. This is a way more powerful relationship than a PT for example. There can be a lot more trust put here as well. 

But realize also that people may just view you as a poor husband who lost his wife to a more respected man. This has nothing to do with truth but perception. Many will not be able to change their view of him. He will come up with a plausible story and likely hurt you badly if you trespass at his studio. You may be the one who goes to jail.

Good luck.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

ThePheonix said:


> Not arguing that. My point to Dave is his old lady is not 50% to blame for the destruction of the marriage. She's 100% to blame because she had 100% control of who she slept with.
> I agree the OM is a 50% corespondent and may deserve retribution. Compare it to a wife who hires a hit man to off her husband. Some folks believe she's 50% to blame for her husbands death. I'm in a group that feels that's far too conservative.
> I realize I'm stirring up a hornets nest with some folks, but ain't the wife, or husband as the case may be, responsible to keep other people out of their pants. And you have to remember if a spouse is on the prowl, the particular affair partner is the person whose number come up.


I would hold my wife accoutable. But what happens to the OM is my call. He took the risk and he will have to deal with the consequences. He felt that there were no rules so then there are no rules. He messed with the wrong guys wife. It happens.

No hornets nest at all. This is about fundamental values. Not anything negotiable. Nothing to agree or even disagree about. It is pure choice. Kinda like you breaking into my home at night. I get to decide if you live or not.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> First off throw that whole vindicative BS spin out of the window. You are the offended one. You get to choose who deserves what, for offending you. There is plenty of blame to go around. This is your choice and you only have to justify it to yourself. I understand why you would have nothing to do with your wife but want to square things with this poacher. Your call entirely. As they say though ... dig two graves. Do NOT go into this halfway. He is likely to kick the bejesus out of you FWIW. So be prepared for that.
> 
> I am not a BS. But I do hold people accountable in the way of my own choosing. Period. Others have no right to decide how I should feel or what I should do about it. Totally my own call.
> 
> ...


This is why Cheaterville was invented.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Your augment than is, "Judge, my client should only get half the jail time because he only took half the take" Here's what it sounds like to me. The betrayed husband, regardless of his treatment of his wife, gets none of the blame. The wife, at best or worse depending on how you look at it, get a maximum of 50% but that is forgiven if reconciliation takes place, and the OM gets his face on Cheatersville with the intention of doing him serious harm.
> What you are really saying is the opposite of what you believe I feel. Everybody is exonerated except the other man. He is the whipping boy for the entire "misdemeanor".
> I'll stick with what I said. If some guy feels like crap because he caught his old lady cheating, she totally responsible for the way he feels. If she'd resisted laying down with another man, the husband wouldn't be in the shape he's in.


So it is okay for you to miss my point, but I am totally wrong for missing yours???

I never said that the BS was exonerated. The BS is responsible for their actions in the M pre-A, and that is a generally accepted concept so I didn't state it. But they are not responsible for the WS's A in way shape or form.

The WS is 100% responsible for their decision to step out and pursue an A.

By your assessment though, the AP has no responsibility as they are just the third party genitalia. That is not true they have responsibility for their actions as well, 100% responsibility for their actions. Just because you believe the ideal "if not them someone else" doesn't exonerate them of all blame. They make the choice and are responsible for it, therefor open to getting some of the blame and ire. If they weren't there then the ire would be at someone else. Even if they pursue your WS and don't actually succeed, ill will and anger are still there as they tried. Their actions deserve just as much attention and anger as the WSs.

The blame also increases substantially when the AP was a friend of the family or a player/ stalker that "friends" the WS and pursues them. It is perfectly acceptable for the BS to have hatred and anger toward the AP. They willing took part when they knew what they were doing (just like the WS) so they should assume blame also, but the way you wrote it originally the WS was 100% responsible. Not true the AP deserves their own level of responsibility. and thus hatred and anger.

If your young child runs out into traffic chasing something and is hit by a car and killed or severely injured, do you not feel hatred and anger towards the driver of the car even though the whole "if not them it would have been someone else" theory is at play here also? You may realize that your child is 100% responsible for their actions that led to the accident, but you still can't help but harbor ill will towards the driver, and that ire will increase drastically if the driver were found to be doing something at the time, such as eating, putting on makeup, adjusting the radio, talking on cellphone, texting, adjusting the GPS, etc, that you feel decreased their attentiveness (even though you know inside that it was your child's total inattentiveness that put them in the situation at the time). The same thing here, you feel ill will towards the AP and they are responsible for their part.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> So it is okay for you to miss my point, but I am totally wrong for missing yours???
> 
> I never said that the BS was exonerated. The BS is responsible for their actions in the M pre-A, and that is a generally accepted concept so I didn't state it. But they are not responsible for the WS's A in way shape or form.
> 
> ...


I agree with you completely. In my case, rightly or wrongly, said driver would never make it to court alive!


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## Wideopn Dave (Apr 11, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> So it is okay for you to miss my point, but I am totally wrong for missing yours???
> 
> I never said that the BS was exonerated. The BS is responsible for their actions in the M pre-A, and that is a generally accepted concept so I didn't state it. But they are not responsible for the WS's A in way shape or form.
> 
> ...


Okay, here's a point to ponder regarding the POSOM.

This is hypothetical and NOT the situation in my case; let me get that on the table upfront.

It is common cause that a WS regularly "re-writes history" to suit their own depraved indifference and to try to justify why they had the affair. 

In my case, my ex-wife alleged affairs that I was supposed to have had 14 /16 yrs ago:scratchhead: (in this regard, when I offered to arrange polygraphs for both of us so she could get the proof that I didn't step out, SHE said no way: wonder why???)

Anyway back on point. So POSOM gets sucked (pardon the pun) into the vortex spun by the WS who says what a **** the husband is and how badly she's treated etc etc.

Does one cut some slack to the POSOM because he is led to believe that he is "rescuing a damsel in distress" or does one remain steadfast in the point of view that his affair partner was married and as such, off limits. Whether the marriage is / was happy or not is not really relevant.

What do you good folks think?

For what its worth, my take is that there is NO slack to be cut. The WS ALWAYS had the option of ending the "unhappy marriage", if that is what it was, before entering another relationship.

In my case lets remember that my ex wife stated in counselling that a mere 4 months before she brought Karate Grandad into MY home to **** him, she had sat on the steps outside our home with a cup of coffee thinking how perfect her life was:scratchhead:

So the subsequent bull**** about disconnection and how I was "so angry at life" is just utter smoke and mirrors and a desperate attempt on her part to deflect attention away from the fact that she stepped out, pure and simple hedonistic pleasure chasing and got BUST by our daughter in our own home.

If I had not been told the above about our relationship, and also that 80% of our relationship was perfect, I may have cut her (and him) some slack. If I was a mean **** to live with, treated her badly I would say I perhaps created the opportunity for her to be vulnerable to a skilled player's advances.

Truth is, she had the perfect life. A devoted husband who worked his ass off to provide and nice comfortable lifestyle, who treated her like a princess and worshiped the very ground she walked on. A husband who supported her dreams financially and emotionally and was proud of her success.

The thanks? She ****ed grandad in our house. And then she dreamt up some utter horse**** about an emotional disconnection as the reason why she was vulnerable to the advances of a skilled player who knew FULL well she was married. 

**** 'em both.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

My opinion to your question: Cut the AP NO slack. (I am purposely using the AP as I feel just a sick about women APs destroying a family as the male APs, I am gender neutral here on this point).

The AP knew he/she was getting involved with a married spouse, and knew if kids or not were involved. With kids it makes it worse as the AP is destroying those kids lives just as much as the BS's life is being destroyed.

Anyone that can do this and think they are fine with what they are doing, has genuine issues and needs help.

They know how relationships work and are a fool if they think everything is entirely one sided (even in the few remote cases where it may be, the WS should get out instead of play the A game and if it is that bad, why not helot them out of the M instead of into their bed??)!

I stick by my original statements that they know what they are doing and should be held accountable 100% for their actions and any retribution, anger, ill will, or harm brought upon them by the BS, as in my mind they deserve it.


In my case the WW told her APs what a bad life she had and how awful things were, but each night would tell the kid they should work hard and dream big so that they could have such a good life too when they are grown. Really???? It is such a good life they should aspire to it, then 10 minutes later be on the phone with their APs and toxic friends doing nothing but bad mouthing, guess they forgot what they just said minutes before??? (Also everyone of her APs said the same thing about their spouses and how bad their lives were, so why did none of them get out if so bad, and my WW was sad when she talked to one of the AP's Ws and heard that she had no idea things were that bad and everything said was a lie, Big Surprise there!!)


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> The WS is 100% responsible for their decision to step out and pursue an A.


That's the message I was trying to convey. I think our man Dave was minimizing her responsibility by saying she was 50% the blame. (albeit he did say "minimum of 50%). Her actions are binary. She either cheats or she doesn't so when she crosses that line she's 100% in. 
The OM puts himself in harms way when he fools with another mans wife and if he has any sense he knows it. Those are the rules of the game. Most folks foolishly think they won't get. Nevertheless, regardless of what you do to the other person, or the degree of forgiveness you render you spouse, it was still he/she who violated your trust. Bottom line is if you have a spouse who puts it out there, you don't have the resources to punish everybody who will take them up on their offer.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> That's the message I was trying to convey. I think our man Dave was minimizing her responsibility by saying she was 50% the blame. (albeit he did say "minimum of 50%). Her actions are binary. She either cheats or she doesn't so when she crosses that line she's 100% in.
> The OM puts himself in harms way when he fools with another mans wife and if he has any sense he knows it. Those are the rules of the game. Most folks foolishly think they won't get. Nevertheless, regardless of what you do to the other person, or the degree of forgiveness you render you spouse, it was still he/she who violated your trust. Bottom line is if you have a spouse who puts it out there, you don't have the resources to punish everybody who will take them up on their offer.


Agreed, but it still sounds as if you are defending the AP. They are binary as well. Either they were involved with the WS or they weren't. That is their choice and they own it 100% along with the punishments that accompany it. It doesn't matter whether they sought it or were offered it, that is just blame shifting and justification on the AP's part to claim those defenses. Those defenses don't exonerate the AP of all responsibility to be moral!!! For that they deserve their punishments as well. What if the AP was a friend of the family or the BS, then they also violated trusts as well!!! 

Sorry but there is plenty of anger, hatred, ill will, and pain to spread around just as their are punishments and @sswhoppings, shakings, etc. It is not something in limited supply. It is made constantly. Don't think this is true, ask someone who has multiple D-Days. Each hurts almost the same if not more than the ones prior.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Wideopn Dave said:


> Okay, here's a point to ponder regarding the POSOM.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Putting myself into this scenario....Let's say some sweet thing I might work around unburdens herself on what a mean ungrateful pig her husband is. He treats her like dirt. She feels lonely, rejected. She is desperate to feel wanted and desired. I'm the only man she's really felt attracted to....

What to do? Well, firstly, she's married, so I'm staying away lest her old man finds out and comes after me with a hammer, gun, sword, scalpel....

The end.

The world is not nearly as complex as we are led to believe. Simple decision.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Forest said:


> Putting myself into this scenario....Let's say some sweet thing I might work around unburdens herself on what a mean ungrateful pig her husband is. He treats her like dirt. She feels lonely, rejected. She is desperate to feel wanted and desired. I'm the only man she's really felt attracted to....
> 
> What to do? Well, firstly, she's married, so I'm staying away lest her old man finds out and comes after me with a hammer, gun, sword, scalpel....
> 
> ...


But if you were really, deeply 'in love' with her, hammer, gun, sword, scalpel... it really wouldn't matter to you. You'd be prepared to risk your life for her. If you were really in love and not just looking for a bit on the side, that is.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> But if you were really, deeply 'in love' with her, hammer, gun, sword, scalpel... it really wouldn't matter to you. You'd be prepared to risk your life for her. If you were really in love and not just looking for a bit on the side, that is.


Nope. Not me. The ground rules that this woman is married would forestall any sappy lovey-dovey crap before it ever got off the ground.

Married women are not something I find attractive in that sense.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Geez I hope this wasn't Dave...

Cannibal in South Africa ate ex's new lover's heart with knife and fork


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Geez I hope this wasn't Dave...
> 
> Cannibal in South Africa ate ex's new lover's heart with knife and fork


Someone should of told this guy, "Eat your heart out!" was a figure of speech...


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Should I out the POSOM or is it vindictive?*



GusPolinski said:


> Geez I hope this wasn't Dave...
> 
> Cannibal in South Africa ate ex's new lover's heart with knife and fork


I bet he won't have triggers and nightmares.


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

Completely agree with Forest on simplicity. Okhams razor is my gospel. 

OP, only two points from me:
1. It's a noble thing to save 'damsel in distress,'.. You just don't have to sleep with her. 
2. What's wrong with being vindictive?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Wideopn Dave said:


> Anyway back on point. So POSOM gets sucked (pardon the pun) into the vortex spun by the WS who says what a **** the husband is and how badly she's treated etc etc.
> 
> Does one cut some slack to the POSOM because he is led to believe that he is "rescuing a damsel in distress" or does one remain steadfast in the point of view that his affair partner was married and as such, off limits. Whether the marriage is / was happy or not is not really relevant.
> 
> What do you good folks think?


Well I'm back with other thoughts that are sure to promote good will towards me. Regardless and for what its worth, I speak from decades of life experience.
The OM doesn't get sucked in by some need to rescue a "damsel in distress". The BH has already likely done that and see what it got him. The OM interprets her marital complaints as a solicitation and they often are. The OM is simply seeing it as an offer that he's more than willing to accept. The OM does not feel it his responsibility to keep your old lady true to her vows. He has already factored in the downside of getting caught but like other tortfeasors, he doesn't think they will be caught. 
If he's inexperienced or by chance knows the soon to be betrayed husband and/or married himself, he may feel some guilt about his intentions, but the temptation to chase this beaver is to overwhelming. He figures if I don't go for it, somebody else will and I'll miss this probably only chance. With the offer on the table and knowing she's there for the taking, common sense and integrity goes out the window. With his ego and confidence higher than it been in years, he thinks, I'll hit it a couple of times and what her husband and my wife doesn't know won't hurt them. 
This is why he's called the OM.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Well I'm back with other thoughts that are sure to promote good will towards me. Regardless and for what its worth, I speak from decades of life experience.
> The OM doesn't get sucked in by some need to rescue a "damsel in distress". The BH has already likely done that and see what it got him. The OM interprets her marital complaints as a solicitation and they often are. The OM is simply seeing it as an offer that he's more than willing to accept. The OM does not feel it his responsibility to keep your old lady true to her vows. He has already factored in the downside of getting caught but like other tortfeasors, he doesn't think they will be caught.
> If he's inexperienced or by chance knows the soon to be betrayed husband and/or married himself, he may feel some guilt about his intentions, but the temptation to chase this beaver is to overwhelming. He figures if I don't go for it, somebody else will and I'll miss this probably only chance. With the offer on the table and knowing she's there for the taking, common sense and integrity goes out the window. With his ego and confidence higher than it been in years, he thinks, I'll hit it a couple of times and what her husband and my wife doesn't know won't hurt them.
> This is why he's called the OM.


Unfortunately, there's probably a lot of truth in this for some OMs.

The thought process or rationale doesn't matter though. You dip your pen in another man's ink bottle, you would have to be completely ignorant to cry foul when it comes time to pay the price when/if it's discovered.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Wideopn Dave said:


> Does one cut some slack to the POSOM because he is led to believe that he is "rescuing a damsel in distress" or does one remain steadfast in the point of view that his affair partner was married and as such, off limits?


This is how one cuts slack in these matters:


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> Well I'm back with other thoughts that are sure to promote good will towards me. Regardless and for what its worth, I speak from decades of life experience.
> The OM doesn't get sucked in by some need to rescue a "damsel in distress". The BH has already likely done that and see what it got him. The OM interprets her marital complaints as a solicitation and they often are. The OM is simply seeing it as an offer that he's more than willing to accept. The OM does not feel it his responsibility to keep your old lady true to her vows. He has already factored in the downside of getting caught but like other tortfeasors, he doesn't think they will be caught.
> If he's inexperienced or by chance knows the soon to be betrayed husband and/or married himself, he may feel some guilt about his intentions, but the temptation to chase this beaver is to overwhelming. He figures if I don't go for it, somebody else will and I'll miss this probably only chance. With the offer on the table and knowing she's there for the taking, common sense and integrity goes out the window. With his ego and confidence higher than it been in years, he thinks, I'll hit it a couple of times and what her husband and my wife doesn't know won't hurt them.
> This is why he's called the OM.


That's another pretty in depth view of the POSOM's inner workings, with a heavy emphasis on a married woman giving him the green light first. In another example of simplicity often being the best choice:

OM sees your wife, and thinks she's hot. He begins a pursuing campaign to pay attention and compliments her way and see if she responds.

Does he still rate such empathy?


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

Please, seriously. Where is it written being vindictive/going after POSOM is bad, immoral, whatever? I see 10s of pro's in doing that and only 1 con (where it backfires on ww and you are stuck with alimony). Any other reasons?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Depending on your actions, would be the obvious one: JAIL/ PRISON time. There is also the possibility of alienating or affecting your relationship with your children (if you have any) due to your anger and persistence in getting even with the POSOM/W?? Just 2 off the top that come to mind.


Have said that, I still think we should go after the AP to give them their due.


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

I'd respectfully disagree with your 1st reason. Perhaps I wasn't making myself clear, but going after AP doesn't automatically equates to illegal things. Tactics would include a combination of legal, financial, moral (e.g reputational) and optionally 'direct' measures, ideally a combination where the 'good guy' is strong and the AP is weak. 

2nd one (children) - may I please ask you to elaborate, as I'm unable to see the connection. 

Finally, we seem to agree anyway? 



Squeakr said:


> Depending on your actions, would be the obvious one: JAIL/ PRISON time. There is also the possibility of alienating or affecting your relationship with your children (if you have any) due to your anger and persistence in getting even with the POSOM/W?? Just 2 off the top that come to mind.
> 
> 
> Have said that, I still think we should go after the AP to give them their due.


 _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Turin74 said:


> I'd respectfully disagree with your 1st reason. Perhaps I wasn't making myself clear, but going after AP doesn't automatically equates to illegal things. Tactics would include a combination of legal, financial, moral (e.g reputational) and optionally 'direct' measures, ideally a combination where the 'good guy' is strong and the AP is weak.
> 
> 2nd one (children) - may I please ask you to elaborate, as I'm unable to see the connection.
> 
> ...


:iagree:
you can be vindictive without breaking the law (any law)


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Turin74 said:


> I'd respectfully disagree with your 1st reason. Perhaps I wasn't making myself clear, but going after AP doesn't automatically equates to illegal things. Tactics would include a combination of legal, financial, moral (e.g reputational) and optionally 'direct' measures, ideally a combination where the 'good guy' is strong and the AP is weak.
> 
> 2nd one (children) - may I please ask you to elaborate, as I'm unable to see the connection.
> 
> ...


Yes we agree, hence why I prefaced number one with "*depending on your actions*", as like you said not all are illegal, but that is all that some think about the violent and illegal ones, so I pointed it out.

The second point is if you expend so much time and energy scheming and conniving to get even, that it changes you and your relationship with your children, as they see anger and hatred in you and no longer want to be around you (alienated by your persistent anger and hatred). Kids want to just be kids and have fun. When we carry a chip on our shoulder, kids see it and don't want to be around it. They might have no idea what it stems from (and might suspect it is something they have done) but know its not normal and want to avoid it and the possible issues it may bring. The kids will want to spend more time with friends and the spouse rather than spend it with you and feel the tensions when around you. Essentially it is fallback from your anger and hatred. Could be worse if they have been introduced to the AP and they thought this person was a good person (as they know nothing of the A that was happening, as this happened with my kids meeting 2 of the APs. They know the truth now and hate them as much as I do, so we bond over this somewhat. They feel they can now speak their mind with me and have no fear of being told differently, as they were when stating the same to the WW.).


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

Thanks, I see your point and agree. Wrt anger - Id like to clarify (perhaps not to you add based on our pervious exchanges we have similar points of view but to anybody else who might be interested) that if someoneweekdays to go that way (burn the AP) or is best to do with cool head and cold heart so to speak. Also imho is the perfect way to channel put the anger, which otherwise stays within and affects those who are closeto you. The children and if R is involved, even WW, so it's not helping either. 

Just wanted to clarify my position on the matter. 



Squeakr said:


> Yes we agree, hence why I prefaced number one with "*depending on your actions*", as like you said not all are illegal, but that is all that some think about the violent and illegal ones, so I pointed it out.
> 
> The second point is if you expend so much time and energy scheming and conniving to get even, that it changes you and your relationship with your children, as they see anger and hatred in you and no longer want to be around you (alienated by your persistent anger and hatred). Kids want to just be kids and have fun. When we carry a chip on our shoulder, kids see it and don't want to be around it. They might have no idea what it stems from (and might suspect it is something they have done) but know its not normal and want to avoid it and the possible issues it may bring. The kids will want to spend more time with friends and the spouse rather than spend it with you and feel the tensions when around you. Essentially it is fallback from your anger and hatred. Could be worse if they have been introduced to the AP and they thought this person was a good person (as they know nothing of the A that was happening, as this happened with my kids meeting 2 of the APs. They know the truth now and hate them as much as I do, so we bond over this somewhat. They feel they can now speak their mind with me and have no fear of being told differently, as they were when stating the same to the WW.).


 _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

So true. Like you said for others, it is the possibilities that they never see. It is the rabbit hole that one gets caught in and in the end bites them worse than anyone else.


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## Wideopn Dave (Apr 11, 2013)

Hey folks,

Been a while. In re this topic, after much weighing of options I decided that it was best to let this go.

I heard the other day from a mutual friend that the ex is not looking good at all. "She'd looking sad and old" was the description.

I get no satisfaction from hearing that except to note that it is EXACTLY as I predicted her life choice would pan out. Sadly she has a very stubborn streak in her so she would rather be unhappy than admit that shacking up with "Grandad Karate Kid" was / is not what she truly wants.......she's now living the life she HAS to live rather than the life she WANTS to live....her CHOICE at the end of the day.

Cheers
D


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

How are YOU doing Dave? You had a lot of anger, justifiably so. Are things getting better?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wideopn Dave (Apr 11, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> How are YOU doing Dave? You had a lot of anger, justifiably so. Are things getting better?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey PhillyGuy13,

Yeah I'm doing okay I guess. Still have the odd flashes of anger when I'd like to beat the crap out of "Grandad" but they're fewer and further apart now.

I've just bought a new house (have been renting since April after selling my house); its still in the same security estate but on the opposite side of the nature reserve area to my old place. Not wild about moving a second time in the space of a year but its all good. It's nice to be able to put the personal touches to a place that is actually yours.

Am taking things very slow with my girl (M); she's been really awesome and continues to be so. My daughter and her get on so well and that's really cool.

There are still times when i think back to things my ex said during 2012 when I was so sure what we had was "perfect"; I realise now it was far from perfect......only perfect in my mind not hers.

She has to live with her choices now i guess but I'd be lying if I said I get satisfaction from knowing she's not happy.... She had it all and threw it away....sad but true.

I continue to grow as a person which makes me realise how much my ex held me back without my realising it.... It's hard to grow as a person when you're "carrying" someone the whole time. 

Life is good. I count my blessings every day and am extremely grateful for the way things have turned out. Could have been very different....


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Good update Dave.

I kinda wish you had handed the letters out and served the karatekid a little sh!t but I think in the long run moving on to a greener pasture with your kid and M is better for all of you.

HM


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## Wideopn Dave (Apr 11, 2013)

Hey everyone...... So i thought it was probably appropriate to give an update on this thread to give context to where I was and where I am now.

Where to begin.... My goodness its been 3 years and a bit since I last posted and so much has happened.

Firstly, I am now a dad for the second time. M and I have a little boy together. A "small" 19yr age gap for me from my daughter to my son but what a joy. Totally unexpected and unplanned but an absolute Godsend.

My Mum summed it up best when we gave my folks the news. She said, "he will be the glue the cements your new life together".... so so true.

So M and I got married as well. Yeah I know that I swore never again (not sure if I mentioned it here) but anyway I have discovered with each passing day what it's like to be truly loved by someone. To be respected and appreciated. M is an amazing woman who I grow to love more and more. She has patiently stood by me as I have worked through anger, emotions, trust issues, insecurity issues, anxiety... all part of the healing process. M has been my rock and she has simply loved me asking for nothing in return. That has allowed me to walk a path to healing as I have and I will forever be in her debt for being so good to me.

We've had our moments. But here's the thing. My ex and I never fought and I think in hindsight it was unnatural. M and I have argued and had a few humdingers but at the end its been a healthy "fight" that addresses issues and we are mature enough to sort it out! To grow from that point and to forgive one another. I guess what I am saying is that it is an adult relationship.

I got through my daughter's 21st birthday celebration in January where I had to see the whole ex family and the Dip**** OM for the first time in 4 yrs. It was awkward to an extent but at the same time it was therapeutic....almost cathartic.

I have come to realise that I didn't know what I was missing out on because I thought what I had was "normal"....was good. In a sense, the Ex and her cheating did me a favour. It was painful to go through at the time and it was ****ty to include our daughter in the mess like she did but at the end the outcome for me has been good.

My daughter is finally in a good place again. She's truly happy again and smiling and laughing and she adores her little brother. She calls M "Ma" now and they have the most wonderful relationship. My daughter she's she sees M as a mother figure (M is a nurturing kind soul) and her mother is more of a friend. If it works for my daughter I'm happy. 

So folks I want to say a huge huge thank you to all of you in TAM who in you own way all helped me through an awful part of my life. And to those who are going through similar horrible times I want to say that my outcome should give hope that it is possible to find true love after the pain with a special person. 

Take care y'all and thanks again for being so awesome!!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Wideopn Dave, it's good to hear from you again and so glad you are in a much better place, as is your daughter.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Thanks for the update, so many folks don't bother. It's nice to hear you have found a happy life for yourself .


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

What an awesome ending, and all the best to you and your new family, you deserve it. Thank you for coming back to post, it will sure give hope to those who find themselves in the same scenario you did all those years ago. Fabulous!


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