# This Is Not a Joke. My husband is addicted to money and it is ruining our marriage.



## Randi

I know it probably sounds strange because it is not a recognized addiction. It has become an obsession and It's as bad an addiction as alchohol, drugs, or anything else. It is destroying my marriage and affecting the entire family. The worse thing is that most people with this addiction are successful, so people admire them and think how lucky the wife is. All my husband thinks of is making more and more money. He doesn't enjoy it, spend it, or even help his family when they are in need. He works day and night, 7 days a week and really doesn't need to. He is never home and doesn't have time to do anything. He doesn't understand why I am unhappy. I didn't get married to sit home alone weekends, holidays, etc. He could have all the money in the world and it wouldn't be enough. He nickles and dimes me and doesn't give me money for groceries, clothes, personal expenses or even buy birthday and Christmas presents for my children. His daughter is out of work and may loose her home, but he doesn't even offer to help her. People think I am so lucky but they have no idea. We have a nice home but he refuses to even fix it up or paint it. He tells me that if I want it fixed up I should pay for it. I know there are support groups for family members of other addictions but where on earth can I get help or advice? I am really getting depressed.


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## Blanca

wow that does sound really lonely. Have you tried counseling for yourself? 

I think you should start going out by yourself and having a good time. I dont mean doing anything you vowed you wouldnt do, but there's no reason you should be sitting home alone all the time. I know its depressing b/c you thought youd be having fun with your H (believe me ive been there) but you arent going to change him by talking. and you dont want to be miserable either. 

do you have separate bank accounts? why cant you get clothes when you want?


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## Randi

I have thought about getting counseling. I have suggested that he go too, but he refuses. He doesn't like me to go out, even with friends or relatives. He keeps checking up on me, although I have never given him a reason to mistrust me and have never cheated. But now I have told him outright that I won't sit around waiting for him anymore. I am going to go out and start enjoying life. I won't do anything involving other men, but I have friends and family. I don't have a joint checking account with him and he controls all the money. I have been working for him for the last ten years and he gives me basically expense money. I had surgery in October and haven't been able to work since the recovery period is about six months. He hasn't given me money because I haven't worked. I have a son who was badly wounded in Afghanistan. He was in Walter Reed for almost two years and I had to pay my expenses to go back and forth to spend time with him. He and his young wife also needed financial help because neither one could work. I used up most of what I had saved. I have been married for 11 years and this is a second marriage for both of us. I don't tell my sons (I have three) what is going on because I don't want them to hate my husband. He can be very nice and everyone thinks he is terriffic. I think my sons are starting to suspect that things aren't quite right because he seems to be getting more obsessive. The other day he calculate what the cost of a cup of coffee is including water and electricity and suggested I limit myself to 1 cup. (it came out to 21cents) If I told people that they wouldn't believe me. I don't know what to do.


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## Blanca

Randi said:


> But now I have told him outright that I won't sit around waiting for him anymore. I am going to go out and start enjoying life. I won't do anything involving other men, but I have friends and family.


thats good. i think it'll help if you start going out again. Your H is a control freak. there's really no room for love in that kind of situation, in my opinion.



Randi said:


> He hasn't given me money because I haven't worked.


You only have so much energy to allocate to areas of your life. This seems like an area that would be worth putting more energy in, for your own sake. He will be able to control you if you dont have financial independence. Can you get a job, and open your own bank account?


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## MarkTwain

Randi-

When he sees you walk out the door, that might be his wake-up call.


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## GAsoccerman

I had a good friend like this...he has always been frugile and a workaholic, he never got married and that is why.

definately a disorder, 

What kind of job does he have? sales? is it based on volume? IE commision?

how old is he?


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## Randi

ljtseng said:


> thats good. i think it'll help if you start going out again. Your H is a control freak. there's really no room for love in that kind of situation, in my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> You only have so much energy to allocate to areas of your life. This seems like an area that would be worth putting more energy in, for your own sake. He will be able to control you if you dont have financial independence. Can you get a job, and open your own bank account?


You are right about him being a control freak and unfortunately he uses money as a form of control. I have managed to get around that until now because I had some income and my own bank account. My biggest mistake was leaving my job when we got married and going to work for him as an office manager. I did it because at that time we planned to enjoy life, go places and do things together as we had both worked hard all our lives. It was "our time". By working with him it would allow the freedom to do this and not be limited to a one or two week vacation every year. Anyway, that was the plan and it was like that for the first five or six years. Then things began to change. We began to work more and more time and less enjoyment. Then he would get upset if I wanted time off to do something. He didn't even want to give me time off for my son's wedding! I began to insist on having a day off during the week. He got angry and cut down on my hours and the money he gave me for expenses until it was barely enough for groceries. Then the two situations I mentioned, my surgery has had me laid up for months and my savings have whittled away because of that and my son's devastating in juries. At least now I got the OK to drive again. It was horrible before because I couldn't drive for 8 weeks. I have started going out. I feel I really need to shake the tree because he is taking me for granted. I have been picking up job applications and told him I am going to get a job because I am tired of being broke all the time. He wants me home all the time waiting for him when he gets here. He calls several times a day to check if I am home. Lately, I don't answer. When he asks me where I was, I tell him I had to run out for something. When he goes to work on Saturday and Sunday, I go visit my family or go to the mall for a cup of coffee just to be "out" when he gets home. When I come home I act happy and smile. This may be a bit sneaky but drastic situations need drastic measures!


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## Blanca

Well that is good that you are going out and getting job applications. I hope things start to look up for you. Im really sorry to hear about your son.


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## Randi

GAsoccerman said:


> I had a good friend like this...he has always been frugile and a workaholic, he never got married and that is why.
> 
> definately a disorder,
> 
> What kind of job does he have? sales? is it based on volume? IE commision?
> 
> how old is he?


I think it is definately a disorder. Most people work towards something or for a reason; a better home, college for the kids, retirement, better standard of living, etc. In his case the only goal is to make "more money". It gives him no joy or happiness. He won't even spend it on himself, never mind his kids or his wife. He owns his own business and has enough money that he could have retired easily years ago. His son is suppossed to be in line to take over, but my husband micro-manages him to the point where he can't make any decisions and everything he does is checked, re-checked and then done over because if it isn't exactly the way his father would do it, it isn't any good. He also insists that his son is there with him 24/7 or "on call". His demands have almost destroyed his son's relationship as well, and his long term live in girlfriend is about to leave because of it. My husband brags about how frugal he is and that he "recycles" paper towels. No kidding! He hangs them up to dry so he can use them over. He brags that he has had the same pair of work boots for 40 years and goes around with pants that have holes in the knees and shirts that he has been wearing for 12 years. In spite of all his quirks, there is a good man hiding in there and I still love him. He wasn't this bad when I met him. He was frugal but he has gotten totally obssessive. If anyone out there has dealt with this type of problem I would lov e to know. I am thinking of trying to get some help and support from his children. If I complain he calls me a nag and a spoiled brat and goes off to his office.


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## Blanca

My H and I would be considered frugal by a lot of people i think. In a lot of ways your H reminds me of mine. My H has a very elaborate excel spread sheet of all our spending over the years. He talks about starting his own business. I could see it getting out of hand. We wouldnt even buy paper towels (i think they're a horrible waste of money and natural resources), i slept on the floor for a year and a half, we have no tv, no radio, etc, we live in the smallest apartment we could find (that was in a decent area), i unplug everything if its not being used (you can save a lot that way), i dont drive, i take the bus or i walk, and a slue of other things. 

I dont have to fight my H about being frugal b/c i actually think im more so then he is. Spending money really bothers me and him. we both like to save. 

But it would really bother me if my H was a work-aholic.


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## Randi

ljtseng said:


> My H and I would be considered frugal by a lot of people i think. In a lot of ways your H reminds me of mine. My H has a very elaborate excel spread sheet of all our spending over the years. He talks about starting his own business. I could see it getting out of hand. We wouldnt even buy paper towels (i think they're a horrible waste of money and natural resources), i slept on the floor for a year and a half, we have no tv, no radio, etc, we live in the smallest apartment we could find (that was in a decent area), i unplug everything if its not being used (you can save a lot that way), i dont drive, i take the bus or i walk, and a slue of other things.
> 
> I dont have to fight my H about being frugal b/c i actually think im more so then he is. Spending money really bothers me and him. we both like to save.
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I don't think there is anything wrong with saving money or cutting down on expenses. When it becomes the only purpose in your life, then it is a problem. Like I said, people save for a reason; to start their own business, own their own home, send kids to college, retirement, etc. My husband is at the stage where he has already reached the point where he has enough income and savings that he doesn't have to worry about anything financially and not a lot of time left to enjoy it. I don't believe in just blowing money or being extravagant, but when you have children and family in need and can well afford to give them a helping hand but don't. I don't have nearly the amount of money my husband has, but when my son was in need I did as much as I could. It wasn't his fault he got injured. He was doing the right thing defending his country. He was decorated with a bronze star and three purple hearts but they don't pay your rent or your bills. My husband will send checks to different charities and the DAV because it is tax deductable. He didn't give a cent to his stepson who was disabled. He won't help his daughter with her mortgage. She lost her job becuase the company is laying off. It isn't her fault and she needs the help. For me, the most important thing is family. I was a single mom for five years and raised three sons pretty much on my own. We had some hard times and I knew how to save and go without. We managed and thank God today they are all doing well. But the day they need me through no fault of their own, I will do what ever I can and whatever it takes to help them. I can accept my husband's little goofy quirks with the paper towels and stapling his pants, using his tea bags over etc. but I cannot understand seeing his son or daughter and family members in a very difficult situation and not doing anything to help. Money is more important to him than his wife, children, home or anything else.


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## GPR

If talking won't work, you need to start taking some action.

Get the job, go out with friends and family. But don't be too deceitful about it and don't get into too many head games. That can develop a resentment and easily end up with the opposite effect that you want. Do the things you want to do, and do it because you want to, not because you think it will piss him off. 

If you decide you are going out over the weekend to a family members house, invite him along. Talk to him about it when you get back. Hide nothing, play no games, just do what you want. Whether that's going out, getting a job, whatever. If he get's upset, tell him exactly how you feel...

If nothing else works, tell him that taking some time off and spending a little now and then will be a lot cheaper than Divorce... j/k


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## Randi

GPR - Thanks for the advice. You're right. Head games aren't good and I'm not very good at them anyway. I guess I just want him to stop taking me for granted. I thought if he sees me going out and enjoying life he might get the idea that there are other things in life besides work.


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## MarkTwain

Randi-

Two thoughts...

1)What would happen if you told him you were going to divorce him is he does not discuss it with you?

2)It sounds like it is certainly his problem, but... is there anything you might be doing to drive him out of the house all day? Is he resentful of you in any way.


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## LucyInSC

Your husband sounds like my father. My father grew up in the depression poor and hungry. All his life he saved every dime he made. He grew all our food and my mother made all the clothes for my sister and me. Everytime we left a light on, we were lectured on how much money we were wasting. We never had a vacation. We were even paranoid about running the water too long for a shower. Well now my mother is dead and I take care of my father in my home. He's in a wheelchair and has lost his mind. But he has lots of money. All those years he saved. For what? He never enjoyed any of it. Sad.


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## Randi

Mark Twain - I have asked him several times if he wants a divorce and he says that he loves me and doesn't want a divorce or a seperation. I suggested that we live apart for a time so he won't feel obligated to spend time with me and can stay at the office night and day. At first I used to get upset about him working all the time and we would end up getting into an argument about it. He insists he wants to be home but has too much work. One of the problems is his "Control" issues. He doesn't delegate or allow other people to make decisions. Whatever anyone else does he ends up doing it over and spending a lot of unnecessary time working on things that were already done. He would be able to have more free time if he let people do their jobs and not micro-manage everything. So now I have tried the other route and not complained or said anything no matter how much time he spent there. I tried putting on the "Betty Crocker" smile and having a nice dinner ready, a fire in the fireplace etc. He was pretty happy with that but it doesn't make much difference in the amount of time he spent at home. Now that I have gotten to know his family and kids more I have learned that he was always that way until he met me and changed dramatically. They were happy to see him finally having a life and they started to have a better relationship with him. I guess a tiger doesn't change his stripes because the way he is now is the way he used to be, but it isn't the guy I met. I am still hoping that I can recover at least part of that guy again.


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## Randi

Lucy, that is sad. I can see you understand where I am coming from. I don't want my husband to waste the best years we have left and still can enjoy ourselves with fairly good health and no real physical problems to hold us back. If he gets sick of course I will take care of him, but I don't want him to wait until he is too old or sick to go anywhere. He does sound a lot like your dad.


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## MarkTwain

Do you guys have any intimacy / sex at all?


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## Randi

Mark Twain - Yes we do. That seems to be the one area of our marriage that can get his attention away from the office. I keep telling him that for a woman it is just as important or even more important to feel love and affection in other areas of the relationship as well. If I feel totally neglected and taken for granted outside the bedroom I don't feel very "lovey dovey" at night!


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## MarkTwain

Randi said:


> If I feel totally neglected and taken for granted outside the bedroom I don't feel very "lovey dovey" at night!


Then it's a miracle you are still willing!

May I ask how often, and who initiates, and how often there is a rejection?


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## Randi

He usually initiates and I don't really openly reject him. If he has acted indifferent and distant I just keep my distance. Sometimes it is like living with a stranger. At times I don't feel like I even know who he is. So he goes to bed and I stay up watching TV, football, baseball or whatever. When he acts like the guy I used to know and we have a "good day" or at least I feel like he still loves me things seem "right" and I get hopeful that it will all work out. Sometimes it lasts for a few days and other times the next day his "evil twin" is back. At times he acts like a total jerk and i wonder what is wrong with him and then he'll show up at night with a bunch of roses and say he's sorry that he was so stupid and my heart melts. At times he seems warm and loving and then he turns to stone. He had a very difficult childhood and I know there were real issues with his mother. She was a bad alcoholic and would dissapear for months at a time. He and his brothers and sisters were on their own. He hated her and she was very abusive. Sometimes I think he is afraid of being hurt so he puts up a wall to protect himself. i know this but it doesn't really make it easier. I am not her and I feel like he is punishing me for what she did to him.


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## GPR

Randi said:


> GPR - Thanks for the advice. You're right. Head games aren't good and I'm not very good at them anyway. I guess I just want him to stop taking me for granted. I thought if he sees me going out and enjoying life he might get the idea that there are other things in life besides work.



You are right... he needs to see you going out. This is what you should do. What I mean by not making it a game is, don't do it JUST to send him a message. Do it because YOU WANT TO. Don't hide anything and don't flaunt anything to get a rise out of him. Don't sneak out just so he can catch you walking in the house or anything like that. 

All you do is simply, do what you want. If you are going out, ask him to come, if he doesn't want to, go anyway. If you had fun, tell him about it. This keeps the communication open and minimizes false signals. If you try too many games, what happens is he gets the wrong message. Instead of "My wife isn't happy with me and is having fun on her own... maybe I should spend more time with her" the message he does get is "My wife is sneaking around behind my back and cheating on me!!!"


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## MarkTwain

Randi said:


> Now that I have gotten to know his family and kids more I have learned that he was always that way until he met me and changed dramatically. They were happy to see him finally having a life and they started to have a better relationship with him. I guess a tiger doesn't change his stripes because the way he is now is the way he used to be, but it isn't the guy I met. I am still hoping that I can recover at least part of that guy again.


It sounds like you flipped him into a different mode when you met, but it wore off. My intuition tells me that what you need to do, is cast your mind back to when you first met, and try to bring those dynamics back. One thing that will help is if you have any objects from around that time, packed away in boxes. Get them out and have him touch them.


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## Randi

GPR said:


> You are right... he needs to see you going out. This is what you should do. What I mean by not making it a game is, don't do it JUST to send him a message. Do it because YOU WANT TO. Don't hide anything and don't flaunt anything to get a rise out of him. Don't sneak out just so he can catch you walking in the house or anything like that.
> 
> GPR - I see your point. I usually tell him when I am going out and he asks where and who with. I don't lie but sometimes he cross examines me. If I go with a friend he wants their name, telephone number, address, etc. Most of the time I go with family or friends I've had from way back, never any men are involved except my son and my brothers. That annoys me because I have never cheated or given him reason to be suspicious. But I don't want him to think there is a reason to be suspicious either. I guess what I meant to say is that before I would always sit home and wait for him on weekends with the hopes of doing things together. If I went out anywhere I would rush home, but by the time he gets home it's usually too late to do anything. Now I am going out and not rushing home and I make plans to do things rather than sit and wait. If he calls or asks me where I am I tell him the truth or I call him and let him know. I think once in a while it does him good to come home to an empty house and wait for me.


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## Randi

MarkTwain said:


> It sounds like you flipped him into a different mode when you met, but it wore off. My intuition tells me that what you need to do, is cast your mind back to when you first met, and try to bring those dynamics back. One thing that will help is if you have any objects from around that time, packed away in boxes. Get them out and have him touch them.


I think you are right. Lots of good advice! Unfortunately in long term relationships couples begin to take each other for granted. I read somewhere once that the problem with marriage is that people give their best to friends and strangers and their worst at home. I told my husband a few weeks ago to pretend we just started our relationship and he wants to make a good impression. I told him to think about what he would do or how he would act. Maybe I'll get him to go on a "date" to a very nice romantic restaurant instead of a quick burger at the fast food place. I'll get out some old photos and our wedding pictures to jar his memory a bit.


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## GPR

Randi said:


> GPR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are right... he needs to see you going out. This is what you should do. What I mean by not making it a game is, don't do it JUST to send him a message. Do it because YOU WANT TO. Don't hide anything and don't flaunt anything to get a rise out of him. Don't sneak out just so he can catch you walking in the house or anything like that.
> 
> GPR - I see your point. I usually tell him when I am going out and he asks where and who with. I don't lie but sometimes he cross examines me. If I go with a friend he wants their name, telephone number, address, etc. Most of the time I go with family or friends I've had from way back, never any men are involved except my son and my brothers. That annoys me because I have never cheated or given him reason to be suspicious. But I don't want him to think there is a reason to be suspicious either. I guess what I meant to say is that before I would always sit home and wait for him on weekends with the hopes of doing things together. If I went out anywhere I would rush home, but by the time he gets home it's usually too late to do anything. Now I am going out and not rushing home and I make plans to do things rather than sit and wait. If he calls or asks me where I am I tell him the truth or I call him and let him know. I think once in a while it does him good to come home to an empty house and wait for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, you are doing the right thing then... The addresses thing sounds like a bit much, but whatever. The only thing I would add is like I said before... invite him with every once in a while. Even if you KNOW that he will say no. Just do it and keep doing it. It doesn't have to be to every time for every event, but if it would be something you would like him to come, invite him along. If you can, give him notice ahead of time so he could work out plan to come if he wished. Keep doing it. Then he will hopefully see that you aren't trying to deceive him or anything or are wanting to be away from him, you just want other things beside sitting around the house waiting for him, and you would like it if he would join you (which I assume you would) but you aren't going to not do it just because he's too busy at work. Maybe one of the times, he would say yes.
> 
> But don't let him try to stop you from doing reasonable things. Do keep in mind you wouldn't want to do something that would upset him, even if it's just perceived.
Click to expand...


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## Randi

GPR- Yes, maybe I should try to invite him to go or make plans with the purpose of involving him in them. Sometimes I go out with a group of girls and I know he wouldn't be interested in that! I just automatically plan that he will be at the office all weekend and I sort of plan around that. Maybe if I say I am going somewhere that he might think interesting and ask him to come he might make an effort. The worse part of that is that I always did that in the past and he would say O.K. I'll be home in an hour or two and then used up the whole day at the office and the plans were ruined. Then finally when he got home I'd be steamed. I'l try again and see what happens. Thanks for the advice. It's always good to get someone else's perspective.


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## GPR

Randi said:


> GPR- Yes, maybe I should try to invite him to go or make plans with the purpose of involving him in them. Sometimes I go out with a group of girls and I know he wouldn't be interested in that! I just automatically plan that he will be at the office all weekend and I sort of plan around that. Maybe if I say I am going somewhere that he might think interesting and ask him to come he might make an effort. The worse part of that is that I always did that in the past and he would say O.K. I'll be home in an hour or two and then used up the whole day at the office and the plans were ruined. Then finally when he got home I'd be steamed. I'l try again and see what happens. Thanks for the advice. It's always good to get someone else's perspective.


If the point you are making is two-fold: A.) You want to have fun and B.) You want to do more with him instead of just working then I would invite him along.

BUT, if he tries pulling the stuff you mentioned in your last post, I would warn him ahead of time, that if he isn't home by XX:XX PM or whatever, that you WILL leave without him, and then you have to follow through with that. 

By you waiting last time, you fell into what he wanted again, you were still there waiting for him when he came home. Maybe if he sees you will still go without him, that won't just sit around and wait for him no matter what, that will register something with him too.


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## Randi

GPR said:


> If the point you are making is two-fold: A.) You want to have fun and B.) You want to do more with him instead of just working then I would invite him along.
> 
> BUT, if he tries pulling the stuff you mentioned in your last post, I would warn him ahead of time, that if he isn't home by XX:XX PM or whatever, that you WILL leave without him, and then you have to follow through with that.
> 
> By you waiting last time, you fell into what he wanted again, you were still there waiting for him when he came home. Maybe if he sees you will still go without him, that won't just sit around and wait for him no matter what, that will register something with him too.



I did that several weeks ago, although it wasn't to have fun. I had shoulder surgery and wasn't supposed to drive. He had agreed to take me to my PT that day and they are very strict. If you are late they won't take you. When it came time to go he didn't show so i called his cell and got no answer. I called three times and then it was getting to be too late to make it so I drove myself there. As it was, I was already 10 minutes late but they took me anyway. I was so upset and tense my therapy was way off. I don't know whether he just looses track of time or is just being extremely inconsiderate. He pulls that sort of thing and when I get mad he tells me I make a big thing out of nothing. Anyway, now I can drive again so I have regained some independence. I'm going to invite him but I'll give him a time limit from now on.


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## MarkTwain

Randi-

You must not let go of this. Keep using your creativity to think up new ways of making things better. Don't be afraid of putting on the pressure and telling him how you feel. Tell him he is failing you, and that his money is not what you want - it's his attention.

I think the fact that he is so possessive of you is a huge clue. he leaves you alone in the house for hours on end, yet does not want you going out. Perhaps you could hint that unless he is going to be around to "personally" keep an eye on you, you are going to be going out more and more often, and he will have no say on who or what gender. That might get his attention.


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## Randi

Mark Twain - I feel like I am on a slippery slope. I need to put some pressure on him because frankly he is not being fair or living up to his role as a husband. At the same time I don't want to make things any worse. I have to try to bend but not break his way of thinking about his marriage. He is very possessive and wants to know everything I do, but at the same time I'm not supposed to ask any questions or make any demands. I don't want a relationship where I feel like I have a "weird room mate" living in my home and he does his thing and I do mine and once and a while we get together for dinner. I didn't marry him for his money. I married him because I loved him and we really enjoyed being together. Right now I don't feel like I am getting much of his money or his company. He's gotten very stingy with both of them. One good thing has happened recently. His son's girfriend put her foot down and gave him (the son) an ultimatum because they are in a very similar relationship. Maybe my husband will realize that this type of obssession with work and money is destroying both his son's and his own relationship. It may help my case.


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## MarkTwain

Randi-

I think the obvious area you can apply pressure in is in his possessiveness of you. Let him feel you slipping out of his fingers. Start deliberately flaunting your independence, and when he asks why, just tell him.

Why do you stay?


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## Randi

MarkTwain said:


> Randi-
> 
> I think the obvious area you can apply pressure in is in his possessiveness of you. Let him feel you slipping out of his fingers. Start deliberately flaunting your independence, and when he asks why, just tell him.
> 
> Why do you stay?


It seems like when I try to assert my independence things backfire and it has the opposite effect. During the summer I decided to take a trip to see my son and his wife and my only grandchild. He was just three when they went and kids change so much. I hadn't seen them in 1 1/2 years because he was sent overseas. I told my husband months in advance. He said he was too busy to go. My son actually paid for my ticket and I really enjoyed spending some time with them. Now, I honestly can't see where there is anything wrong with that. I thought it would do us good to be apart for a couple of weeks and for him to see what it's like to come home to an empty house. He told me there was no problem with me going to visit them, but his actions spoke louder than his words. He was furious. Even our friends and other people noticed before I went that he seemed angry when my trip was mentioned. When I got home instead of being happy to see me etc. it was like he was punishing me for going. Anyway, I am glad I went and would do it over again. It just seems like whatever I do has a "double edged sword". Why do I stay?? I guess I still have some hope that things can be turned around. As I mentioned before, there are times when I catch a glimpse of the man I married. That guy is worth fighting for. If I see that he's gone for good at least I will know that I gave it all I had.


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## MarkTwain

Have you reached the point where you have felt like issuing an ultimatum - stop working on the weekends or I go?


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## Randi

MarkTwain said:


> Have you reached the point where you have felt like issuing an ultimatum - stop working on the weekends or I go?


I have come very close. The problem is I can't do that unless I am 100 % willing to go through with it no matter what. I know it can't be a bluff and he has to know that it is for real. Otherwise it won't work. It could come to that before too long.


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## MarkTwain

Randi said:


> . I know it can't be a bluff and he has to know that it is for real. Otherwise it won't work. It could come to that before too long.


You are absolutly right. However... there is an inbetweeny route: When he is next in a good mood, you can tell him that you are so fed up that he is working all week and both days of the weekend that if he does not drop one day soon, and spend it with you, you *might *walk. By using the tentative mood, you create a way of testing his reaction, while still being able to back down.

If and when you reach 100% fed upness, you can issue the final ultimatum - but not until you have put everything in place including lawyers so that you can deliver.

I think he has an illness of sorts, and you simply haven't got through to him yet. You need to turn up the heat so that he is in no doubt how upset you are.


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## Randi

I think he has an illness of sorts, and you simply haven't got through to him yet. You need to turn up the heat so that he is in no doubt how upset you are.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. I think it is an illness. When I started the thread I termed it as an addiction. If you think about what an addiction is, it fulfills all the requirements. He works 24/7. He doesn't need to work and there is no goal or purpose. He works for the sake of making more money. It doesn't matter how much he hurts others or ruins relationships. However, the money does not have any use for him as far as purchasing things he wants or providing a better standard of living for him and his family. It has become an "end" in itself and there is never enough or there will never be enough. The only purpose is to have "more". This last weekend I did get a bit of hope and maybe he is starting to react. On Sunday when he was leaving, I acted very indifferent. He asked what I was going to do and I told him I didn't know, I hadn't made any plans yet. He walked out and then came back and asked me again. I told him I really didn't know. He asked if I wanted to do something if he tried to get home early. I told him I would, but not at 4:00 or 5;00 in the afternoon. So, he went to the office but just for a couple of hours and came back. I don't mind that. What I hate is the whole weekend at the office especially when the weather is nice. If we don't have anything special to do, I don't care if he wants to go check things out. It is not fair that we plan to do something and he calls at 4:00 from the office and we have to cancel everything. I think maybe his kids have been talking to him too. They are all worried and concerned about him especially since his behavior is getting more obsessive and strange.


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## MarkTwain

You need to capitalise on this. make it a rule he comes back at 2.00 in the afternoon one day a week. Then when he is used to that, go for another day. Keep up the pressure.


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## Randi

MarkTwain said:


> You need to capitalise on this. make it a rule he comes back at 2.00 in the afternoon one day a week. Then when he is used to that, go for another day. Keep up the pressure.


I think you're absolutely right. Things didn't get the way they are overnight and I don't think they will completely turn around that way either. At first it was a big problem that needed attention on a Sunday.(an exception) Then it was going out to fill the tank or wash the car. When that took a couple of hours and I asked why, "Well, I just stopped at the office to check on...etc." From that it became going in for a few hours to check on things and he'd be back to go somplace or do something. Then the couple of hours got stretched to pretty much a full day. I probably should have nipped it in the bud b ut now I have to undo the damage. Maybe if I just go and plan something and tell him if he wants to go be back by 2:00 or I will go ahead without him.


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## MarkTwain

Randi said:


> Maybe if I just go and plan something and tell him if he wants to go be back by 2:00 or I will go ahead without him.


No, I think that shows fear. It shows anyone reading your post that you are afraid to confront him with the truth.

How about - honey it was so so nice to have you around on Sunday, I think we had better have a 2.00 pm rule don't you? 

Eventually you need to get him to stop going in on both days of the weekend altogether, unless it's a genuine emergency.

You come across as very passive. My wife would have left me over this, and quite rightly.


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## MarkTwain

Randi said:


> I probably should have nipped it in the bud b ut now I have to undo the damage.


Yes, and now you've created a monster! Can you explain why you didn't nip it in the bud?


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## Randi

MarkTwain said:


> Yes, and now you've created a monster! Can you explain why you didn't nip it in the bud?


Not really. I guess it was gradual and before I knew it things got way too out of control. If he had started out with "I'm going to spend all of my weekends at the office from here on" it would have been obvious and I would have raised the roof! I think what I am realizing now is that my husband is very good at manipulating and not totally honest with me. He gave just enough to keep me hopeful, dangling the carrot so to speak. I'm not very good at mind games. My youngest son once told me "Your problem is that you are so honest and you expect everyone else to live by your standards." I don't see things until they hit me on the head! My first husband cheated on me almost from the beginning and lied up and down about it. I always suspected it and had reason to believe that he was lying but I guess I believed what I wanted to. Maybe that's why I am trying so hard to make this work. I can't stand the idea of being fooled twice.


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## MarkTwain

Randi-

I want you to win. Not against him, but against yourself.


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## Randi

MarkTwain said:


> Randi-
> 
> I want you to win. Not against him, but against yourself.


I don't think it is a situation where one person can win over the other. If things don't work out we both loose a lot. If we can reach a compromise where both of us feel happy we both come out ahead. It's all about give and take and trying to find solutions we can both feel good about.


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## MarkTwain

Randi said:


> If we can reach a compromise where both of us feel happy we both come out ahead. It's all about give and take and trying to find solutions we can both feel good about.


I'm going to slightly bend your words here: In order for your relationship to come back into balance, he will probably have to experience some discomfort. You have been the one shouldering all the discomfort thus far - he has been doing his own thing. Having said that, I doubt it has made him happy.

Once you get his hours under control, you need to get him into the habit of spending a little money. Slowly slowly, catchy monkey


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## Randi

MarkTwain said:


> I'm going to slightly bend your words here: In order for your relationship to come back into balance, he will probably have to experience some discomfort. You have been the one shouldering all the discomfort thus far - he has been doing his own thing. Having said that, I doubt it has made him happy.
> 
> I feel like the proverbial "crab". It seems to be two steps forward and one step back! Other times it is one step forward and two steps back. Just when I feel like I am making progress it goes the other way and vice versa. My biggest "Ace" is that he does love me although at times he doesn't act that way. When I get him to take a little time off to do something, the next day it's like he has a sense of guilt and has to "make up" for the lost time. I think his whole sense of self worth depends on how much money he can make and how productive he can be. It is going to be a very gradual process with a lot of patience required.


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## MarkTwain

Randi-

I get the impression you have been somewhat over-passive in your marriage thus far. I think a little bit of steady pressure and firmness is allowable


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## Randi

MarkTwain said:


> Randi-
> 
> I get the impression you have been somewhat over-passive in your marriage thus far. I think a little bit of steady pressure and firmness is allowable


I have been following your advice and there has been some improvement. Just wanted to let you know. Last weekend he went off to the office on Sunday. Didn't say how long he'd be or when he would be back. I made plans with my brother and sister in law. He called in the afternoon to ask what I was doing. I told him about my plans and invited him to come along. He declined saying he had too much to do. At the end of the day we decided to stop for a bite to eat so I called and asked if he wanted to join us. Again he declined. I thought he would be grumpy (another word comes to mind but I don't think I can use it here) when I got home but at that point I didn't care. To my surprise he was cordial and sociable and more attentive than usual. He has been that way all week and last night i told him I wanted to go to a movie (I picked out the movie for a change) and we went and he actually enjoyed it although it wasn't his kind of movie. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks and give a little update.


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## MarkTwain

That cool, but you need to keep pushing. I'm going to keep pushing you, so you can keep pushing him. It's called trains


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## preso

Randi said:


> I know it probably sounds strange because it is not a recognized addiction. It has become an obsession and It's as bad an addiction as alchohol, drugs, or anything else. It is destroying my marriage and affecting the entire family. The worse thing is that most people with this addiction are successful, so people admire them and think how lucky the wife is. All my husband thinks of is making more and more money. He doesn't enjoy it, spend it, or even help his family when they are in need. He works day and night, 7 days a week and really doesn't need to. He is never home and doesn't have time to do anything. He doesn't understand why I am unhappy. I didn't get married to sit home alone weekends, holidays, etc. He could have all the money in the world and it wouldn't be enough. He nickles and dimes me and doesn't give me money for groceries, clothes, personal expenses or even buy birthday and Christmas presents for my children. His daughter is out of work and may loose her home, but he doesn't even offer to help her. People think I am so lucky but they have no idea. We have a nice home but he refuses to even fix it up or paint it. He tells me that if I want it fixed up I should pay for it. I know there are support groups for family members of other addictions but where on earth can I get help or advice? I am really getting depressed.



In a word, he is "GREEDY"
how sad......................... more so that he nickles and dimes you. I'd say start spending some of his money and do what he says and pay someone to paint your house and fix it up. Only let him pay. If he doesn't....
I think I'd move out.

He sounds really awful. Bet he brags about all his money too, to neighbors and relatives. He sounds like a jerk.

I had a relative like this and my grandmother told me I would not change him... to think about all the money he would leave me...
when he died young and thats what happened.
If it were a husband, the same rules would not apply... UNLESS
you were both in your 60's... then I would say : 
hang tight, will end soon.


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## poetprose

Randi said:


> I know it probably sounds strange because it is not a recognized addiction. It has become an obsession and It's as bad an addiction as alchohol, drugs, or anything else. It is destroying my marriage and affecting the entire family. The worse thing is that most people with this addiction are successful, so people admire them and think how lucky the wife is. All my husband thinks of is making more and more money. He doesn't enjoy it, spend it, or even help his family when they are in need. He works day and night, 7 days a week and really doesn't need to. He is never home and doesn't have time to do anything. He doesn't understand why I am unhappy. I didn't get married to sit home alone weekends, holidays, etc. He could have all the money in the world and it wouldn't be enough. He nickles and dimes me and doesn't give me money for groceries, clothes, personal expenses or even buy birthday and Christmas presents for my children. His daughter is out of work and may loose her home, but he doesn't even offer to help her. People think I am so lucky but they have no idea. We have a nice home but he refuses to even fix it up or paint it. He tells me that if I want it fixed up I should pay for it. I know there are support groups for family members of other addictions but where on earth can I get help or advice? I am really getting depressed.


oh this sounds all to familiar....... his priorities are all screwed up
the more he makes the more it will control him..... he has to learn that he is the manager of money, and that money is a lousy way of defining your family!!!!


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## preso

Randi said:


> I know it probably sounds strange because it is not a recognized addiction. It has become an obsession and It's as bad an addiction as alchohol, drugs, or anything else. It is destroying my marriage and affecting the entire family. The worse thing is that most people with this addiction are successful, so people admire them and think how lucky the wife is. All my husband thinks of is making more and more money. He doesn't enjoy it, spend it, or even help his family when they are in need. He works day and night, 7 days a week and really doesn't need to. He is never home and doesn't have time to do anything. He doesn't understand why I am unhappy. I didn't get married to sit home alone weekends, holidays, etc. He could have all the money in the world and it wouldn't be enough. He nickles and dimes me and doesn't give me money for groceries, clothes, personal expenses or even buy birthday and Christmas presents for my children. His daughter is out of work and may loose her home, but he doesn't even offer to help her. People think I am so lucky but they have no idea. We have a nice home but he refuses to even fix it up or paint it. He tells me that if I want it fixed up I should pay for it. I know there are support groups for family members of other addictions but where on earth can I get help or advice? I am really getting depressed.


After reading this carefully, I dont think husband is addicted to money
but has control issues. Money .. no matter if having it or witholding it... is just a means to control others, which I think is his actual addiction. 
Control... he loves it... he loves controlling others and being the one who can have final say to either bring them unhappiness or 
punish them.. to make them do things they would normallly not do...
he has figured out his control of money can do that and he likes to control everything.... as it makes him feel powerful.


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## Randi

I'm back! I haven't come back to the site for several months. I needed to digest everything and think long and hard and try some of the things I thought might work to change things or at least improve them a bit. It has been a roller coaster ride and at times when I really felt I was making progress things went to h-ll in a handbasket. I noticed that some of you have been kind enough to post replies and advice so I feel I should give a little bit of an update. One poster said I should give him an ultimatum but I really had to mean it or otherwise it would backfire. Things actually got to that point. It wasn't one thing but a series of things and situations that finally made the lid blow off. Talk about the "straw that broke the camel's back"! We had a graduation party for my nephew (my oldest brother's son). Now my brother and his wife have been extremely good to us and as well as family, they are our best friends. My husband tells me on the day of the party to pick up a card and we will both put in $20.00. Keep in mind that I had been out of work fro some time and he is well off. I told him not to bother that I would take care of it and sign the card myself so they would all know what a cheapskate he is. Anyway, there were other things that really got me ripped. We were haveing some yard work done and planting shrubs. I went out to participate and give my input as to where to put them etc. He started screaming and swearing at me and throwing things around in front of the workers and told me if he was paying for it he would do what evre the h-ll he wanted to. It was a nasty scene. A few more incidents like that and i told him I had had it. I couln't live that way and was going to see a lawyer. The next day he was all apologetic and sorry and told me he couldn't bear the thought of loosing me. We agreed to work things out, but he had to make an effort to change and I would meet him half way. He has been better and I feel he has been trying. However, he starts to slip back into his old ways every now and then. I don't think he can change altogether but if he tries and at least treats me with respect I can deal with it. I agree that it is a control issue. Money is a means of control. I have been reading and researching as well to get as much insight as I can. A controller will try to control your time and your money. They want you to be where they want you to be and when they want you to be there. When he says he'll be home early on a weekend and we can go out, and then shows up at the end of the day, it is his way of having me not plan anything and wait for him. If I don't have spending money, I can't do too much or go anywhere. Now I am aware of it, but I have to figure out better how to overcome it and cope with it.


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