# Marriage Advice Please! Especially From Men!



## jmv2003

I have been with my husband for 13 years(married 8). We have 3 children. I am very outspoken, he is not. He does not share his feelings AT ALL! He didnt start out this way...it just got worse as we got older. The last year has been bad. We went through different therapists but none of them were too helpful. They did agree when I told them I thought a separation would be good for us(maybe 2 weeks).Well, my husband would never do it. In July, we were trying to make things work. He told our therapist he was in for trying 100%! Even more than me. We were trying but him ignoring me at home got bad and I got really mad. I told him to go and he finally did. After a week of barely talking, I called him to see what we should do to move forward and he said he is done. I was heart broken, I still am. For weeks now, he keeps telling me he is not angry or anything but he is done. He says he wants me to be happy but does not feel at all that he wants to try again.Ever. Im so upset and confused. He doesn't talk to anyone. He tells is family he doesn't want to talk about it and they should leave it alone. Everyone around us is confused about how he is acting. He talks about going to get divorced now so that we can be done with everything. There is nobody else, he has told me and everyone. He just wants to be alone. The last week we didn't talk. It was good. But this weekend, we had to see each other because of kids activities. We talked normally yesterday but then today, he had to remind me that we are DONE. I think he is trying to hurt me because he blames me for everything. I don't think he takes any blame. He will not see a therapist because he does not think there is anything wrong with how he feels or his actions. You can see he is angry but just pushes it down. Over the last month, he has talked to me about our marriage, our problems, even happy times but he will not open up about how he really feels about it or why he is so done. It makes me feel awful to not matter to him anymore. What do you think is going on with him? Why is he so quick to divorce or why does he want to hurt me? I would love to hear from men about this! Stories, advice, anything! Please, no mean comments. Thank you!
I would also like to add that, for the past month until now, he will not talk about the future. He doesn't want to talk about the holidays. I had to make the schedule(which is very fair for both of us and the kids). We also never talked about seeing other people. I said this to him when we first separated because you are supposed to talk about things like this. He says he is seeing nobody and doesn't want to talk about me seeing other ppl(which I am not doing). I guess b.c he is "done" I should assume seeing/sleeping with other ppl is ok???


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## john117

What's your definition of outspoken? Can you give some examples?


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## frusdil

You say your husband didn't start out the way he is now...is it possible that you are so outspoken that you shouted him down at every turn so he learnt to keep quiet to keep the peace? Not saying you did - just asking the question.

You were the one who suggested a separation and told him to leave. He did. He realised he's happier on his own. That's the risk you took when you suggested it.

My husband learnt very early on in his first marriage not to rock the boat. His ex wife would bark orders at him and he complied, it simply wasn't worth the furore not to. She would constantly threaten divorce, until one day she did and he simply said "ok". She got the shock of her life and tried to retract it but he was done. She was out of his head and heart from that moment on.


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## manfromlamancha

I agree with asking the question John asked - how outspoken exactly are you? What does this mean ?


Also, you thought a separation would be good. Your idiot counsellors agreed. Your husband (correctly) didn't but in the end you asked him to leave. So he did what you told him but just permanently. I would have felt hurt at being asked to leave by you i.e. agreeing with your counsellors instead of your husband. He might have tried to work on it but you asked him to leave after he told you he did not agree with the counsellors and didn't want a separation.

So he gave you what he thought you wanted except permanently.

So this combined with just how outspoken you are should tell us more.


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## Openminded

What's going on with him? He's indicating he's done. Plainly. He's not especially trying to hurt you. He's just calling it the way he sees it. You gave him a way out and he jumped at it. That may not happen too often but it does happen. 

Start putting a plan together (if you haven't already) for your life going forward. That will help some with the uncertainty you're feeling. Of course, he could also change his mind at some point and come back but at least for now he's not interested. So you need to focus on you and your children and how to make this transition as easy as possible. It's tough, I know, but you can get through it.


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## tech-novelist

Sorry, but I think once you got him to leave, he realized that he was happier alone. 

The only thing I can think of is for you to ask him to write down exactly why he doesn't want to continue being with you. It's possible that it is something you could change.


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## MrsAldi

Some men don't share their feelings or emotions, including my husband. 
It may be that they are just brought up that way, my husband was raised not to discuss such things as feelings. But to have thoughts about obligations, work, sports, manly stuff etc

Your husband was trying to work with the therapy but it may be that he's just not sensitive enough or doesn't know what to tell you, what subjects/feelings did you want him to discuss? 

He said that he's done now, but give him space and a while to cool off, maybe he will be back. But understand that you cannot except this type to just converse feelings, pick a particular time to chat with him about it, during a romantic time perhaps, check your tone of voice, is it positive or negative? If it feels like negative nagging to him, he might be less likely to talk to you. 


Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## Manchester

His feelings just changed and he lost interest in you and the relationship. 

It happens. The sooner you accept it's over the better off you'll be

Start planning on your exit strategy which includes sticking him for alimony.

I'm stuck with lifetime alimony maybe you can do as good as my ex did. If he wants out so bad give him an agreement to sign that says "pay me for life" and maybe he'll be stupid enough to do it like I was.


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## jmv2003

I am open and honest about what I need and want. When I noticed he was not showing me as much love and attention, I would say something. I would also ask about him and what was going on, what he needed but he would just shut down. His parents had a rough relationship when he was younger. His mother(who is not like me) had issues, while his dad would just cover them up and act like nothing happened. I would tell him he needs to be open and honest with me, that I wouldn't be like his parents.
I would also like to add that he may not have agreed with the therapist about separation but he constantly talks about doing things they told him to do that I dont agree with.
Also, he doesn't seem happy at all! He is working more than ever, I think to avoid thinking about us. He's not doing anything to make himself happy. Everyone says how angry he seems all the time.


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## john117

(Dr. John waves magic wand and roles switch)

I used to notice when my rather frigid wife would not show me love and affection and would say something, too. Sometimes something nice, sometimes - most of the time  - something not so nice. But I got over it.

Took me a while to figure out she's not really capable of that. For many reasons. But showing I'm needy did not help either. Her reactions were not outspoken per se, but reading the tea leaves left no doubt. 

She's usually outspoken. Think current GOP presidential candidate. Something goes wrong with life, as it does with most people not committed to an institution, and she goes ballistic, er, outspoken 

Remember those "this call may be recorded for training purposes" thing? That's her.

Are you anything like that?


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## MattMatt

You threw him out.

And now he wants to stay thrown out.

And when you realise he wants to stay thrown out, you suddenly realise you didn't want him to be thrown out, after all.

OK. What's your next move?


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## jmv2003

john117 said:


> (Dr. John waves magic wand and roles switch)
> 
> I used to notice when my rather frigid wife would not show me love and affection and would say something, too. Sometimes something nice, sometimes - most of the time  - something not so nice. But I got over it.
> 
> Took me a while to figure out she's not really capable of that. For many reasons. But showing I'm needy did not help either. Her reactions were not outspoken per se, but reading the tea leaves left no doubt.
> 
> She's usually outspoken. Think current GOP presidential candidate. Something goes wrong with life, as it does with most people not committed to an institution, and she goes ballistic, er, outspoken
> 
> Remember those "this call may be recorded for training purposes" thing? That's her.
> 
> Are you anything like that?


I am definitely not like that


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## jmv2003

MattMatt said:


> You threw him out.
> 
> And now he wants to stay thrown out.
> 
> And when you realise he wants to stay thrown out, you suddenly realise you didn't want him to be thrown out, after all.
> 
> OK. What's your next move?


I didnt "throw" him out. He could have easily said no, you are my wife, this is my family, I am staying and we will fix this but he didnt..


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## Lostme

He could be angry , because you told him to leave which would make me angry too. By doing that you ruined a chance to save your marriage, it also sounds like you hound him a lot about feelings men have feelings but they are not as emotional as women.

How do you know he is not happy now? has he told you this? just because he is working more does not make him an unhappy person.

You have ran him off on your own by nagging at him, you said you are outspoken by saying what you want and need. Was you yelling and cursing at him, have an attitude? 

I think you should realize he has moved on, he is never going to feel he can make you happy and from the sounds of it he is right.

It also seems there is more to the story, what exactly doe she blame you for?


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## 225985

jmv2003 said:


> MattMatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> You threw him out.
> 
> And now he wants to stay thrown out.
> 
> And when you realise he wants to stay thrown out, you suddenly realise you didn't want him to be thrown out, after all.
> 
> OK. What's your next move?
> 
> 
> 
> I didnt "throw" him out. He could have easily said no, you are my wife, this is my family, I am staying and we will fix this but he didnt..
Click to expand...

"I got really mad. I told him to go and he finally did "

Yes, you threw him out.


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## john117

jmv2003 said:


> I am definitely not like that


Glad to hear that. How intense are you when outspoken?

And, what cultures are we talking about? Some cultures don't look favorably upon such approaches.


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## jmv2003

Lostme said:


> He could be angry , because you told him to leave which would make me angry too. By doing that you ruined a chance to save your marriage, it also sounds like you hound him a lot about feelings men have feelings but they are not as emotional as women.
> 
> How do you know he is not happy now? has he told you this? just because he is working more does not make him an unhappy person.
> 
> You have ran him off on your own by nagging at him, you said you are outspoken by saying what you want and need. Was you yelling and cursing at him, have an attitude?
> 
> I think you should realize he has moved on, he is never going to feel he can make you happy and from the sounds of it he is right.
> 
> It also seems there is more to the story, what exactly doe she blame you for?


According to him, he does not blame me for anything. He also says he is not angry(but nobody would believe that). He still shuts down, even now when he says he is done. I mean, he can't hurt me much more than I am now. I was never mean when I told him what I wanted. It actually started off as me being concerned about us. We were spending as much time together and I wanted to fix it.


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## Openminded

Maybe he feels he couldn't give you what you needed and so he finally gave up.


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## jmv2003

blueinbr said:


> "I got really mad. I told him to go and he finally did "
> 
> Yes, you threw him out.


I wouldn't call it throwing him out by telling him to leave and give us a break. If he would have out his foot down and said no, he could have stayed. He needs to man up and open his mouth.


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## 225985

jmv2003 said:


> I wouldn't call it throwing him out by telling him to leave and give us a break. If he would have out his foot down and said no, he could have stayed. He needs to man up and open his mouth.


With all due respect young lady, your thinking is ridiculous. "I wouldn't call it throwing him out by telling him to leave". Really?? Well, everyone else, including your husband would consider that being thrown out. Now, after throwing him out, you blame HIM for leaving, saying he should have fought back.

"They did agree when I told them I thought a separation would be good for us(maybe 2 weeks).*Well, my husband would never do it.* " He DID resist it. And you STILL again told him to go. You got what you wanted.

I guess your husband grew tired of that way of thinking. He is gone. Own up and take at least 50% responsibility here.


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## jmv2003

john117 said:


> Glad to hear that. How intense are you when outspoken?
> 
> And, what cultures are we talking about? Some cultures don't look favorably upon such approaches.


I was not intense at all in the beginning. It did get more intense as time went on and he continued to not talk about our issues or do anything about them. Culture is not an issue at all.


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## jmv2003

blueinbr said:


> With all due respect young lady, your thinking is ridiculous. "I wouldn't call it throwing him out by telling him to leave". Really?? Well, everyone else, including your husband would consider that being thrown out. Now, after throwing him out, you blame HIM for leaving, saying he should have fought back.
> 
> "They did agree when I told them I thought a separation would be good for us(maybe 2 weeks).*Well, my husband would never do it.* " He DID resist it. And you STILL again told him to go. You got what you wanted.
> 
> I guess your husband grew tired of that way of thinking. He is gone. Own up and take at least 50% responsibility here.


I don't want anyone to think I don't take blame. I always say to him that this is 50/50. I told him to leave because he did nothing to fix our marriage. I'm not saying he should have fought back, Im saying he could have. I don't blame him for leaving. I blame him for not being open and honest with his wife before OR after he left.


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## MattMatt

jmv2003 said:


> I didnt "throw" him out. He could have easily said no, you are my wife, this is my family, I am staying and we will fix this but he didnt..


"Throw him out" "asked him to leave."

Not seeing a big difference there. To be honest. 

So are we to presume that although you "asked him to leave" that this was some kind of test for your husband?

That you really wanted him to stay and fight for the marriage?

But you said he left "eventually" which implies that you "asked him to leave" on a number of occasions. Was that the case?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Manchester

jmv2003 said:


> I didnt "throw" him out. He could have easily said no, you are my wife, this is my family, I am staying and we will fix this but he didnt..


Sorry but that's just BS right there. 

You told him to leave, he left.

OWN IT.


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## jmv2003

MattMatt said:


> "Throw him out" "asked him to leave."
> 
> Not seeing a big difference there. To be honest.
> 
> So are we to presume that although you "asked him to leave" that this was some kind of test for your husband?
> 
> That you really wanted him to stay and fight for the marriage?
> 
> But you said he left "eventually" which implies that you "asked him to leave" on a number of occasions. Was that the case?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I asked him if we could take a break for a couple weeks, to have time to think and reflect on our marriage.


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## MattMatt

jmv2003 said:


> I wouldn't call it throwing him out by telling him to leave and give us a break. If he would have out his foot down and said no, he could have stayed. He needs to man up and open his mouth.


He needs to "man up, does he? 

He needs to "open his mouth"?

Good grief!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Sometimes when you try to change the dynamic of a relationship, even for good, you destabilize it. It is a risk you take. 

The pursuit-distancing dance. This doesn't work well with an introverted personality. You pursued a resolution to the relationship problems and he distanced from you. Do you see that?

What happens when pursuers meet distancers


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## MattMatt

jmv2003 said:


> I asked him if we could take a break for a couple weeks, to have time to think and reflect on our marriage.


This is a serious and genuine question:-

Do you always have problems with taking real and genuine ownership of your decisions and your actions?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jmv2003

MattMatt said:


> He needs to "man up, does he?
> 
> He needs to "open his mouth"?
> 
> Good grief!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So, you think I should have just stayed in an unhappy marriage with a man who did nothing to make any of us happy? And now, I should just be ok with how he is acting? It's ok for him to hurt me, still not talk about things and even sometimes be mean to me??


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## Miss Independent

.


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## anchorwatch

jmv2003 said:


> So, you think I should have just stayed in an unhappy marriage with a man who did nothing to make any of us happy? And now, I should just be ok with how he is acting? It's ok for him to hurt me, still not talk about things and even sometimes be mean to me??


No, you should not "stay in an unhappy marriage". You should try to make it better, but this way isn't working with him. Is it?


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## MattMatt

jmv2003 said:


> So, you think I should have just stayed in an unhappy marriage with a man who did nothing to make any of us happy? And now, I should just be ok with how he is acting? It's ok for him to hurt me, still not talk about things and even sometimes be mean to me??


I didn't say that. Did I?

Asking him to leave might have been the best thing for all concerned.

However saying: "Well, he didn't have to leave! He could have stayed! He could have manned up" makes people think "If she didn't want him to leave why did she ask him to leave?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Manchester

jmv2003 said:


> So, you think I should have just stayed in an unhappy marriage with a man who did nothing to make any of us happy? And now, I should just be ok with how he is acting? It's ok for him to hurt me, still not talk about things and even sometimes be mean to me??


You wanted a break, you asked for it, and you got it.

Enjoy it and don't be so negative! 

It's like winning the lottery and complaining you don't know what to do with all the money.


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## jmv2003

MattMatt said:


> This is a serious and genuine question:-
> 
> Do you always have problems with taking real and genuine ownership of your decisions and your actions?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not at all! I know what I did. If my husband would have said, if I leave I'm done maybe I would have thought more about it. But he didn't. He did nothing and I couldn't take it anymore. He knew then and knows now that I love him but he is punishing me and I still don't have answers.


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## Manchester

jmv2003 said:


> Not at all! I know what I did. If my husband would have said, if I leave I'm done maybe I would have thought more about it. But he didn't. He did nothing and I couldn't take it anymore. He knew then and knows now that I love him but he is punishing me and I still don't have answers.


How about he DIDNT KNOW what he'd think or feel after he's been TOLD TO LEAVE his home?

You opened the door, you pointed to it and you said "GO!".

He did, he's now rethinking the marriage and it could very well be you telling him to leave was the last straw.


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## MattMatt

jmv2003 said:


> Not at all! I know what I did. If my husband would have said, if I leave I'm done maybe I would have thought more about it. But he didn't. He did nothing and I couldn't take it anymore. He knew then and knows now that I love him but he is punishing me and I still don't have answers.


Are you admitting that you might not have given proper thought to your idea to ask him to leave?

Have you told him that? Apologised?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe

You attempted a massive **** test and lost. Ok. Any chance you can love him for who he is 'as-is'? Or do you only want him back as a different version of himself?


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## jmv2003

anchorwatch said:


> No, you should not "stay in an unhappy marriage". You should try to make it better, but this way isn't working with him. Is it?


I agree! And I am open to any and all advice!


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## SunnyT

It may be too late. Sometimes, people really are just "done". It's not about hate or anger..... they are just done "trying". 

And like someone else replied, when you destabilize the relationship you are taking a chance. Sometimes we advise people to do just that...but only if you are prepared for the consequences. 

You asked him to leave. You think the counselors gave you good advice about that. 

You think he didn't try hard enough. 


My point is, HE has a perspective too. MAYBE he is tired of "trying". Usually, when someone leaves and says that they are done...they are done. You don't have to understand. You have to figure out what to do going forward. It wasn't working, you were both unhappy, and maybe that's what he is considering right now. 

See an attorney. You need to understand the process. This doesn't have to be hateful, think about the kids. Do what is right for the kids. 

It's hard to see right now....but he may have done you a HUGE favor. I know one the best things my ex did....is walk out. It sucked at first, and I didn't understand. And honestly I don't think I'll ever understand. But I don't care. My life has been a zillion percent better since he walked out. He may be doing the right thing. Some marriages SHOULD end. 

Be strong. Show your kids a strong, level headed mother. Don't speak ill of their dad. Go through the divorce with the kids' in mind. Not kids as victims, but to make a tough process easier on them. Be fair. Start planning a future for yourself and the kids.


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## Roselyn

He is not angry. He wants to stay out of your marriage. He tells you he's done. See an attorney. I believe that your husband already checked out. It takes two to make a marriage work.


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## MattMatt

This is one of those cases when I would dearly love to see the spouse's point of view.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## becareful2

jmv2003 said:


> So, you think I should have just stayed in an unhappy marriage with a man who did nothing to make any of us happy? And now, I should just be ok with how he is acting? It's ok for him to hurt me, still not talk about things and even sometimes be mean to me??


How was he acting and what specific things did he do to hurt you? How was he mean to you? 

What didn't he talk about that bothered you so much?

Did he work to provide for you and the children? Did he help around the house? Isn't that a good thing but here you say he didn't do anything to make you happy?

I'm still not getting a complete picture here. Were you bossy? Do you wear the pants in this marriage?

If your husband was here, what do you think he'd tell us?


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## anchorwatch

@jmv2003,

STOP CHASING HIM! It only initiates conflict. Did you read about the pursuer and the distancer? Let things calm. Go about your life and do not speak about the M unless he brings it up. Let him see a reason for him to return. A place where he can feel safe and comfortable enough to open up. A place where he could join you in repairing this M. Chasing him does not work. You may not be able to repair this M, but you can try. You can't change him, only he can do that. 

Here is a list you might use. Sandi2's 37 Rules (The 180 list)

Please keep to one thread so the members can follow your progress. 

Best


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## Lostinthought61

JMV...prior to going to the therapist, let's say a year ago, had you and your husband causally had a talk where you asked each other if you were happy, in life in marriage in general? or put in another way when was the last time he mention how happy he was ?


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## jmv2003

becareful2 said:


> How was he acting and what specific things did he do to hurt you? How was he mean to you?
> 
> What didn't he talk about that bothered you so much?
> 
> Did he work to provide for you and the children? Did he help around the house? Isn't that a good thing but here you say he didn't do anything to make you happy?
> 
> I'm still not getting a complete picture here. Were you bossy? Do you wear the pants in this marriage?
> 
> If your husband was here, what do you think he'd tell us?


I def don't wear the pants in the marriage. And yes, he is a very hard worker! He provides for me and my childrem always has. The problem began when he started to shut down. He stopped having fun...with me, with anyone. I just want him to be happy and I always wanted to be happy with him. He would just never open up. We would talk or figh and you could see he had feelings and things to say, he just wouldn't do it!


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## jmv2003

anchorwatch said:


> @jmv2003,
> 
> STOP CHASING HIM! It only initiates conflict. Did you read about the pursuer and the distancer? Let things calm. Go about your life and do not speak about the M unless he brings it up. Let him see a reason for him to return. A place where he can feel safe and comfortable enough to open up. A place where he could join you in repairing this M. Chasing him does not work. You may not be able to repair this M, but you can try. You can't change him, only he can do that.
> 
> Here is a list you might use. Sandi2's 37 Rules (The 180 list)
> 
> Please keep to one thread so the members can follow your progress.
> 
> Best


Sounds good. Thank you for the advice! I have been trying to not have contact.During the week it works, its harder on the weekends. I will keep trying though! Thanks again!


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## jmv2003

Xenote said:


> JMV...prior to going to the therapist, let's say a year ago, had you and your husband causally had a talk where you asked each other if you were happy, in life in marriage in general? or put in another way when was the last time he mention how happy he was ?


We did! I initiated it. I was feeling a little unhappy and unfilled. I told him about my concerns. He didn't say much. He said he is happy with the kids. I asked him what would make him happier, for himself and for us...he said he didnt know. He says idk a lot. Maybe he didnt think he deserved 100% happiness but he did. He still does, and I would always have done what he wanted just to see him happy!


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## Lostinthought61

jmv2003 said:


> We did! I initiated it. I was feeling a little unhappy and unfilled. I told him about my concerns. He didn't say much. He said he is happy with the kids. I asked him what would make him happier, for himself and for us...he said he didnt know. He says idk a lot. Maybe he didnt think he deserved 100% happiness but he did. He still does, and I would always have done what he wanted just to see him happy!


Interesting his first thought was to say the kids....not you, not the both of you and certainly not him. the only thing he is happy about is the offsprings you both produced, but not his personal happiness and not the both of you....i find that alarming 

has he had a full physical, with a battery of blood work ? could he be depressed? when was the last time you just so him laughing with joy, and if you recall that, what ignited that ?


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## MrsAldi

@jmv2003

What type of things did the therapist give you guys to work on? 
Anything regarding him working on his communication skills regarding his feelings? 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## tropicalbeachiwish

What exactly were his issues with the marriage? If he would come on here & give us a list of things that needed to be worked on, what would he say?


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## snerg

jmv2003 said:


> I def don't wear the pants in the marriage. And yes, he is a very hard worker! He provides for me and my childrem always has. The problem began when he started to shut down. He stopped having fun...with me, with anyone. I just want him to be happy and I always wanted to be happy with him. He would just never open up. We would talk or figh and you could see he had feelings and things to say, he just wouldn't do it!



You admit to being outspoken.

Reading through the threads, I'm not sure, but you sound oppressive.

I wonder if the years of your "outspokenness" finally smashed him.

My neighbor has a wife that is "outspoken"

She's a nice enough woman - always friendly.But wow, she is on his back about everything. To hear her talk to (or I should say talk at) her husband is cringe worthy.

When ever we hang out he's fun, talkative, happy go lucky. The moment she is in earshot, he shuts down.Doesn't smile, joke, or participate in the conversation.
When she leaves, he is back to his happy self.

I asked him about that one time and he said "it's better to just shut up and look like I'm being a jerk then to open my mouth and give her the opportunity to make sure she let's everyone know she thinks I'm being a jerk or better yet, she'll explain to me and everyone around why I wrong this time" 

I suspect that this is somewhat of the same occurrence for your husband.

The separation was to forcefully show again, how right you are.

And this last time finally pressed him to the point of no return.


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## jmv2003

Xenote said:


> Interesting his first thought was to say the kids....not you, not the both of you and certainly not him. the only thing he is happy about is the offsprings you both produced, but not his personal happiness and not the both of you....i find that alarming
> 
> has he had a full physical, with a battery of blood work ? could he be depressed? when was the last time you just so him laughing with joy, and if you recall that, what ignited that ?


I am so glad you mentioned this! I have thought for a while that this could be an issue(depression). I have talked to him about while we were together and once while separated. I go to doctors, therapy etc when I know I need to get things taken care of. He never does. He went a couple years ago for a physical after I suggested it. He has high bp and cholesterol. Not enough for meds but he is supposed to get it checked d every 6 months but doesn't. It makes me worry. I also think he could be depressed or something...I don't know! I even tell him now, if only for himself and the kids, see a therapist. He refuses. He says nothing is wrong. He thinks the way he feels is fine (even though myself and the kids are not dealing well).
I would love any advice/suggestions you have for me! TY!


----------



## jmv2003

MrsAldi said:


> @jmv2003
> 
> What type of things did the therapist give you guys to work on?
> Anything regarding him working on his communication skills regarding his feelings?
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


OMG yes! The therapists told him that he needs to be more open. One time in therapy, my husband cried and he turned away from me. She told him to look at me and share his feelings! He wouldnt...


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## jmv2003

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> What exactly were his issues with the marriage? If he would come on here & give us a list of things that needed to be worked on, what would he say?


I think he would say that I need to be more understading of his job. They call him a lot and he has to go in a lot when there are problems. Or ppl at work would just call and he would have to talk them through things. The last 2 years it has been getting crazy! They work him so much!! But I guess if he is ok with it, I should be too.


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## jmv2003

snerg said:


> You admit to being outspoken.
> 
> Reading through the threads, I'm not sure, but you sound oppressive.
> 
> I wonder if the years of your "outspokenness" finally smashed him.
> 
> My neighbor has a wife that is "outspoken"
> 
> She's a nice enough woman - always friendly.But wow, she is on his back about everything. To hear her talk to (or I should say talk at) her husband is cringe worthy.
> 
> When ever we hang out he's fun, talkative, happy go lucky. The moment she is in earshot, he shuts down.Doesn't smile, joke, or participate in the conversation.
> When she leaves, he is back to his happy self.
> 
> I asked him about that one time and he said "it's better to just shut up and look like I'm being a jerk then to open my mouth and give her the opportunity to make sure she let's everyone know she thinks I'm being a jerk or better yet, she'll explain to me and everyone around why I wrong this time"
> 
> I suspect that this is somewhat of the same occurrence for your husband.
> 
> The separation was to forcefully show again, how right you are.
> 
> And this last time finally pressed him to the point of no return.


That is def not me! I don't want anyone to think it is. I would have never talked about my husband in a neg way in front of anyone. In fact, most of our friends were shocked to hear we separated! When things were getting bad, I only told a couple close friends and family to get advice. I appreciate my husband and all he does to support us. Its his lack of emotions and communication that messed us up. Ill admit, his silence sometimes made me aggressive and say things I regret BUT I started seeing my own therapist to get all of that under control and it has helped a lot. Therapy has helped me understand my husband more too. Even now, will all of my anger, I tell ppl that he is still supporting us and I appreciate it so much!


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## 225985

jmv2003 said:


> OMG yes! The therapists told him that he needs to be more open. One time in therapy, my husband cried and he turned away from me. She told him to look at me and share his feelings! He wouldnt...


OP, we have different situations but we have the same basic problem. We want our spouses to change to be the way we want them to be. I am sorry but that is not going to happen. Your husband is not broken. He is just different from you and that hurts you. He is who he is. He knows he cannot be the person you want him to be. You want to fix that. 

You really don't want your husband back. (You told him to go.) What you want back is an improved, repaired version of your husband. You think you can still fix him.

It has been 10 years.


----------



## MrsAldi

jmv2003 said:


> OMG yes! The therapists told him that he needs to be more open. One time in therapy, my husband cried and he turned away from me. She told him to look at me and share his feelings! He wouldnt...


He cried? What was the subject matter about? 

Apologies, does the therapy gave actual practical exercises? 
For example there is one where you sit back to back (not facing each other) and give each other time to talk the issues without interruptions? 

This will give each of you chance to exactly explain what you need. 
What feelings do you want him to express, his love for you?

Do you need to work on issues of insecurity? 
Do you need him to reassure you constantly? 

If not, you may need a more pragmatic therapist. 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## jmv2003

blueinbr said:


> OP, we have different situations but we have the same basic problem. We want our spouses to change to be the way we want them to be. I am sorry but that is not going to happen. Your husband is not broken. He is just different from you and that hurts you. He is who he is. He knows he cannot be the person you want him to be. You want to fix that.
> 
> You really don't want your husband back. (You told him to go.) What you want back is an improved, repaired version of your husband. You think you can still fix him.
> 
> It has been 10 years.


Here's the thing, my husband could very well be broken. He is not the man I married. He changed. He used to be outgoing, caring, loving etc...if he was like this when I met him I would not have been attracted to him. I try to help him get back to or close to who he was, not only for me and the kids but for himself.


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## WonkyNinja

jmv2003 said:


> I asked him if we could take a break for a couple weeks, to have time to think and reflect on our marriage.


What outcome were you expecting? It sounds as though he did reflect on the marriage and decided against it. 

We only know your side of the story here and I'm not sure quite what you mean by "I'm outspoken", it could be anything from having no reservations letting people know what you need to shouting down any opinion that doesn't meet what you want to hear. 

My wife's XH was unable to communicate his feelings to her, even after she had said she wanted to separate, and that was a big factor in the ending of the marriage. If that is your H also then you have a problem finding the real issues.

My XW made a huge deal out of every single little item and I spent 19 years not speaking up for fear of the mood that would come back at me. The problem was that I suddenly realized that I didn't miss her when we were apart, I even looked forward to times she would be away and dreaded her returning. Once I decided I was done that was it, there was nothing in me that wanted to try again. 



jmv2003 said:


> Not at all! I know what I did. If my husband would have said, if I leave I'm done maybe I would have thought more about it. But he didn't. He did nothing and I couldn't take it anymore. He knew then and knows now that I love him but he is punishing me and I still don't have answers.


The only suggestion I can make is that you suggest individual counseling. Let the counselor ask him the questions you ask and he can answer without fear of being told he is wrong, shouted down or contradicted. When you meet with the counselor you need to listen to what he said and not just disagree with it.

It doesn't sound like he is punishing you, unless he's playing some sort of mind game before returning.


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## WonkyNinja

anchorwatch said:


> @jmv2003,
> 
> STOP CHASING HIM! It only initiates conflict. Did you read about the pursuer and the distancer? Let things calm. Go about your life and do not speak about the M unless he brings it up. Let him see a reason for him to return. A place where he can feel safe and comfortable enough to open up. A place where he could join you in repairing this M. Chasing him does not work. You may not be able to repair this M, but you can try. You can't change him, only he can do that.
> 
> Here is a list you might use. Sandi2's 37 Rules (The 180 list)
> 
> Please keep to one thread so the members can follow your progress.
> 
> Best


What's the point of doing a 180 on someone that is already walking the other way? They won't even notice.


----------



## jmv2003

MrsAldi said:


> He cried? What was the subject matter about?
> 
> Apologies, does the therapy gave actual practical exercises?
> For example there is one where you sit back to back (not facing each other) and give each other time to talk the issues without interruptions?
> 
> This will give each of you chance to exactly explain what you need.
> What feelings do you want him to express, his love for you?
> 
> Do you need to work on issues of insecurity?
> Do you need him to reassure you constantly?
> 
> If not, you may need a more pragmatic therapist.
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


I didnt need reassurance. I just needed some. He went from a man who told me all the time to not as much...someone who gave me so much time and attention to wanting to be alone..sometimes he seemed sad but itt was like he couldnt share because thats not what men do. We never had really good exercises to try...I thought that if we got a break from each other, we would find a therapist we both like and keep going but decided he was done when he left the house.


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## MrsAldi

@jmv2003
When your husband talked in therapy, what did he say? 
Do you know what made him cry? 
What were you talking about at the moment? 


Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## GuyInColorado

Were you guys intimate often? Regular, good sex? 

Kind of sounds like my old marriage. I felt stuck due to our 2 kids and a house, so I tried to make it work. But no matter how much money we threw at different therapists, I didn't love my wife. I couldn't force myself to like her again. I resented her for the way she would control me, yell at me, and just be a general unhappy overweight b*tch. We didn't have any kind of sex for the last 4.5 years of the 8 year marriage. I was sleep walking the last couple years, just miserable. Finally read No Mr Nice Guy and left her. Haven't been this happy in my 35 years. Some marriages just need to die and not be saved.


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## jmv2003

GuyInColorado said:


> Were you guys intimate often? Regular, good sex?
> 
> Kind of sounds like my old marriage. I felt stuck due to our 2 kids and a house, so I tried to make it work. But no matter how much money we threw at different therapists, I didn't love my wife. I couldn't force myself to like her again. I resented her for the way she would control me, yell at me, and just be a general unhappy overweight b*tch. We didn't have any kind of sex for the last 4.5 years of the 8 year marriage. I was sleep walking the last couple years, just miserable. Finally read No Mr Nice Guy and left her. Haven't been this happy in my 35 years. Some marriages just need to die and not be saved.


 We were until it got really bad! He loved me when we were in therapy...I could tell. I would still do things to make him happy even when things were really bad...I would bring him food and coffee to work on days he had to work late...I would make his favorite dinners. He would always thank me too. We had true love, we just got lost somewhere. I always and still do want him to be happy.


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## Openminded

jmv2003 said:


> Here's the thing, my husband could very well be broken. He is not the man I married. He changed. He used to be outgoing, caring, loving etc...if he was like this when I met him I would not have been attracted to him. I try to help him get back to or close to who he was, not only for me and the kids but for himself.


People very often do change during marriage (and not for the better). Maybe he doesn't want to be that person any longer. Who knows what his thinking is. But his actions are saying that at least for now he's done. Perhaps he'll change his mind but perhaps he won't. That's his choice and all the "help" in the world won't make a difference if that's not what he wants. 

So I'm repeating my earlier advice to you -- make a plan for you and the children going forward. That's something you need for your future.


----------



## jmv2003

Openminded said:


> People very often do change during marriage (and not for the better). Maybe he doesn't want to be that person any longer. Who knows what his thinking is. But his actions are saying that at least for now he's done. Perhaps he'll change his mind but perhaps he won't. That's his choice and all the "help" in the world won't make a difference if that's not what he wants.
> 
> So I'm repeating my earlier advice to you -- make a plan for you and the children going forward. That's something you need for your future.


Thank you. You're definitely right. I am trying very hard to just think of my kids and myself even though I am hurting and confused about all of this.My husband has said in the past that he knows he has changed and wants to be happy again. I hope in the future he will think that again and seek advice from a professional who can help him get there.


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## samyeagar

More than once in this thread, you have indicated that he says he is fine, yet you insist that he is angry, that others, in your mind, think he is angry. It is clear that you and he are seeing something totally different. Have you considered that he is telling the truth about how he feels, and that you may be mistaken? You certainly didn't consider that he would actually leave when you suggested he do so, so there is evidence that you are seeing things very differently than your husband.


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## jmv2003

samyeagar said:


> More than once in this thread, you have indicated that he says he is fine, yet you insist that he is angry, that others, in your mind, think he is angry. It is clear that you and he are seeing something totally different. Have you considered that he is telling the truth about how he feels, and that you may be mistaken? You certainly didn't consider that he would actually leave when you suggested he do so, so there is evidence that you are seeing things very differently than your husband.


He says he is fine but gets mad at a lot...more than he did when he lived in the house. And if he's so fine, done with our marriage and only worried about the kids, then why doesnt he stick to our schedules? Why does he not answer when our son calls him even if he thinks its me? I dont call him anymore. Everything is text or our calendar app that I made him download. I try to distance myself but I am forced to contact him when he doesnt tell me about changes in the schedule 20 mins before. Why can't he stick to things?


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## Manchester

jmv2003 said:


> I am forced to contact him when he doesnt tell me about changes in the schedule 20 mins before. Why can't he stick to things?


He's punishing you.

Your children are caught in the crossfire.

Don't be surprised if he gives up on them altogether just to be away from you.


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## jmv2003

Manchester said:


> He's punishing you.
> 
> Your children are caught in the crossfire.
> 
> Don't be surprised if he gives up on them altogether just to be away from you.


Ive definitely thought that he is punishing/hurting me...but he would never leave his children. They are what he lives for.


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## samyeagar

jmv2003 said:


> Ive definitely thought that he is punishing/hurting me...but he would never leave his children. They are what he lives for.


My ex wife felt very hurt, and very punished. The thing was, I did not care enough about her in either direction to want to hurt her. I was completely indifferent to her. I did things my own way because I was no longer beholden to her, no longer accountable to her. I initially tried to work with her, but she never really seemed to grasp that I had recovered my own agency, and was under no obligation to defer to her if I didn't want. It was now a two way street. In short, she didn't like it that she was no longer getting her way by the simple virtue of her being her.


----------



## Manchester

jmv2003 said:


> Ive definitely thought that he is punishing/hurting me...but he would never leave his children. They are what he lives for.


You just never know people.


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## jmv2003

WonkyNinja said:


> What outcome were you expecting? It sounds as though he did reflect on the marriage and decided against it.
> 
> We only know your side of the story here and I'm not sure quite what you mean by "I'm outspoken", it could be anything from having no reservations letting people know what you need to shouting down any opinion that doesn't meet what you want to hear.
> 
> My wife's XH was unable to communicate his feelings to her, even after she had said she wanted to separate, and that was a big factor in the ending of the marriage. If that is your H also then you have a problem finding the real issues.
> 
> My XW made a huge deal out of every single little item and I spent 19 years not speaking up for fear of the mood that would come back at me. The problem was that I suddenly realized that I didn't miss her when we were apart, I even looked forward to times she would be away and dreaded her returning. Once I decided I was done that was it, there was nothing in me that wanted to try again.
> 
> The only suggestion I can make is that you suggest individual counseling. Let the counselor ask him the questions you ask and he can answer without fear of being told he is wrong, shouted down or contradicted. When you meet with the counselor you need to listen to what he said and not just disagree with it.
> 
> It doesn't sound like he is punishing you, unless he's playing some sort of mind game before returning.


I like what you have to say and I see where you are coming from. Me being outspoken was just me telling him that we needed to makes changes to be happy. 
Since I am not sure what my husband is thinking and you have had a similar situation, let me ask you a couple of questions. I know you are not him but MAYBE you can offer some advice or try to answer my questions.
1. Since we have been separated and he is "done" as he says, why is he willing to talk to me about our marriage? For example, he has said "how do i know things wont be the same if i come back?" or "i just dont want to fight anymore" Wouldn't he just be done and not want to talk about it?
2.Why or how does he talk to me normally when we HAVE to see each other(like a childrens events) I know, to keep the peace but he could easily not initiate random conversations about things that mean nothing. He knows how I feel about things, why would he even try talking to me like that right now?
3.Why doesn't he get his stuff from the house? He only has the few things he has taken and the things Have given him after doing laundry and cleaning off his dresser(after asking him if i could). He has clothes and other perosnal things he could come get any time I am not here...why doesnt he?? Its like there are so many things he could do to prove he is really done but he doesnt do them(not that i really want him to).


----------



## WonkyNinja

Manchester said:


> He's punishing you.


Not necessarily, it sounds like he's just checked out.



Manchester said:


> Your children are caught in the crossfire.
> 
> Don't be surprised if he gives up on them altogether just to be away from you.


That is a completely unjustified and sweeping assumption. You leave the spouse not the children. I know there are spouses of both sex that walk away from the whole family but they are not the majority. Leaving the marriage probably won't change his feelings about his children one iota unless there is something else going on with him.


----------



## Manchester

I thought she said he's distancing himself from his kids?


----------



## jmv2003

WonkyNinja said:


> Not necessarily, it sounds like he's just checked out.
> 
> 
> 
> That is a completely unjustified and sweeping assumption. You leave the spouse not the children. I know there are spouses of both sex that walk away from the whole family but they are not the majority. Leaving the marriage probably won't change his feelings about his children one iota unless there is something else going on with him.


WonkyNinja, did you see that I replied to your other post? :smile2:


----------



## WonkyNinja

jmv2003 said:


> I like what you have to say and I see where you are coming from. Me being outspoken was just me telling him that we needed to makes changes to be happy.
> Since I am not sure what my husband is thinking and you have had a similar situation, let me ask you a couple of questions. I know you are not him but MAYBE you can offer some advice or try to answer my questions.


There is a difference between telling him your wants and needs and "telling him that we needed to makes changes to be happy". Happiness comes from within yourself.


I'll have a go



jmv2003 said:


> 1. Since we have been separated and he is "done" as he says, why is he willing to talk to me about our marriage? For example, he has said "how do i know things wont be the same if i come back?" or "i just dont want to fight anymore" Wouldn't he just be done and not want to talk about it?


Maybe, although that does sound like the door is still open to working on it. 

Those two questions sound like they are coming from someone defeated. Think seriously now? Did you really listen to his concerns or did you tend to deflect them and just tell him he was wrong? I get that he won't open up. If that has always been the way then that in itself is a problem, if it hasn't then it sounds like he's given up trying to discuss as it has never succeeded before. You could always try the point that you can't change things if he doesn't say what his problems are and you don't want to fight you want to discuss and listen.

I'm not trying to assume or judge your character here I can only relate to my experience and the question would be the same to a male in your position.

In my instance I had tried to discuss things but the door was shut in my face and anything I mentioned was just proof that I was selfish. When someone stonewalls you like that there is only one option and that is to leave. 



jmv2003 said:


> 2.Why or how does he talk to me normally when we HAVE to see each other(like a childrens events) I know, to keep the peace but he could easily not initiate random conversations about things that mean nothing. He knows how I feel about things, why would he even try talking to me like that right now?


Small talk breaks the silence. If you're at a children's event and have to be together random irrelevant conversations avoid having a discussion that might get heated in public. 



jmv2003 said:


> 3.Why doesn't he get his stuff from the house? He only has the few things he has taken and the things Have given him after doing laundry and cleaning off his dresser(after asking him if i could). He has clothes and other perosnal things he could come get any time I am not here...why doesnt he?? Its like there are so many things he could do to prove he is really done but he doesnt do them(not that i really want him to).


Even if he's realized that he doesn't want to carry on taking all his things seems like leaving the house AND children. At the moment I'll guess that he isn't thinking about the little stuff on the dresser.

Again I'm trying not to jump to the conclusion that you haven't tried to listen, but often someone who is outspoken doesn't take the time to listen to the opinions of others. Trump for example.

There could be something else going on as well of course. Depression would be the first guess, and I really don't know how you can tackle that one with someone who isn't around. I still think that Individual Counseling would be your best bet, you could put it as "one last attempt for the kids sake". I'm not in favor of staying together unhappy for the kids, that's a dreadful example to set them.

HTH


----------



## WonkyNinja

jmv2003 said:


> WonkyNinja, did you see that I replied to your other post? :smile2:


Yes. I just replied to it. 

I was disagreeing here to the person that suggested you shouldn't be surprised if he just turns his back on the kids as well.


----------



## jmv2003

WonkyNinja said:


> Yes. I just replied to it.
> 
> I was disagreeing here to the person that suggested you shouldn't be surprised if he just turns his back on the kids as well.


Thank you! I saw that..was happy to see that you said something!


----------



## jmv2003

WonkyNinja said:


> There is a difference between telling him your wants and needs and "telling him that we needed to makes changes to be happy". Happiness comes from within yourself.
> 
> 
> I'll have a go
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe, although that does sound like the door is still open to working on it.
> 
> Those two questions sound like they are coming from someone defeated. Think seriously now? Did you really listen to his concerns or did you tend to deflect them and just tell him he was wrong? I get that he won't open up. If that has always been the way then that in itself is a problem, if it hasn't then it sounds like he's given up trying to discuss as it has never succeeded before. You could always try the point that you can't change things if he doesn't say what his problems are and you don't want to fight you want to discuss and listen.
> 
> I'm not trying to assume or judge your character here I can only relate to my experience and the question would be the same to a male in your position.
> 
> In my instance I had tried to discuss things but the door was shut in my face and anything I mentioned was just proof that I was selfish. When someone stonewalls you like that there is only one option and that is to leave.
> 
> 
> 
> Small talk breaks the silence. If you're at a children's event and have to be together random irrelevant conversations avoid having a discussion that might get heated in public.
> 
> 
> 
> Even if he's realized that he doesn't want to carry on taking all his things seems like leaving the house AND children. At the moment I'll guess that he isn't thinking about the little stuff on the dresser.
> 
> Again I'm trying not to jump to the conclusion that you haven't tried to listen, but often someone who is outspoken doesn't take the time to listen to the opinions of others. Trump for example.
> 
> There could be something else going on as well of course. Depression would be the first guess, and I really don't know how you can tackle that one with someone who isn't around. I still think that Individual Counseling would be your best bet, you could put it as "one last attempt for the kids sake". I'm not in favor of staying together unhappy for the kids, that's a dreadful example to set them.
> 
> HTH


 Thank you so much for taking the time to answer! I could never help him or even shut down his suggestions because he never gave any. For months before we separated, he was like a robot. Sleep on the couch, go to work, come home, play with kids, do some housework, go to sleep and repeat. I BEGGED him to talk to me! And I would have listened! I would listen now. I am seeing a therapist who I love! My husband says he doesnt need therapy. We were going to go to a new couples therapist. He wanted to but says only to be better parents. I agree with that but he wants to go and not talk about us at all. Even my therapist says that cant happen. A therapist would need some background and our current situation. So, the conversation ended with him saying nevermind, maybe we should go separately. I told him I have someone(he knows this). He said maybe he will go alone. I never responded, just hoped that he would. This was a week ago.
One more thing I would love your opinion on, if you dont mind! From the time we separated until now(about 2 months), when my husband doesnt have the kids, he impossible to reach. I understand he is going through a lot but he INSISTS he is done and fine, so why not answer your phone. I dont bug him by calling or texting a lot(ok, maybe the first week i did). A few times, I had to call him b/c he had the kids earlier that day and I needed to ask him a question. He will also not answer texts(how easy is that?). He has a personal and wok phone. I will call both, although I hate dealing with things through his work cell. He doesnt really live anywhere...he "moved" into his mothers house and stays at his sisters sometimes. He has a job that allows him to go in at all hours to fix things so he has been working A LOT! I think he sleeps in his car sometimes too. I used to tell him I would leave with the kids but I couldnt. I have no family to help me. He has a brother 2 streets away with a house and its just him and his son. Anyway, thought that info might help. Here is another reason I hate this. My husband was off today. He said he was not going in but he told me a few mins ago that he did. Our 7 year old tried to call him for 4 hours today...left voicemails too. He never answered or called back most likely b.c he thought it was me calling! What is this about? He always says its because he gets scared when he sees me calling. But honestly, I call him about once a week. I usually text and for the last 3 weeks,I haven called or texted about us!! What the heck is going on with him? Sorry if I rambled on...thank you!


----------



## MattMatt

jmv2003 said:


> We did! I initiated it. I was feeling a little unhappy and unfilled. I told him about my concerns. He didn't say much. He said he is happy with the kids. I asked him what would make him happier, for himself and for us...he said he didnt know. He says idk a lot. Maybe he didnt think he deserved 100% happiness but he did. He still does, and I would always have done what he wanted just to see him happy!


Did you know that the highest number of the use of the answer: "I don't know" is because people really, truly "don't know?"


----------



## Mr. Nail

I'm going to throw in a FWIW. Overall I'm worried about his shift in personality. It seems to you that something has changed. I'm not real happy about his withdrawal into work and solitude. It all looks like clinical depression. But it could just be frustration and loss. 
At some point in this thread you mentioned that he says I don't know a lot. It is his go to answer for what he wants, or what would make him happy. For What It's Worth, My wife used to say that a lot. Eventually it occurred to me that she had no reason to lie and what she was saying was her truth. When I started believing that She Did Not Know, I began to understand her. I'm not going to say I'm happy with what I found, but at least I know where she is coming from.


----------



## jmv2003

Mr. Nail said:


> I'm going to throw in a FWIW. Overall I'm worried about his shift in personality. It seems to you that something has changed. I'm not real happy about his withdrawal into work and solitude. It all looks like clinical depression. But it could just be frustration and loss.
> At some point in this thread you mentioned that he says I don't know a lot. It is his go to answer for what he wants, or what would make him happy. For What It's Worth, My wife used to say that a lot. Eventually it occurred to me that she had no reason to lie and what she was saying was her truth. When I started believing that She Did Not Know, I began to understand her. I'm not going to say I'm happy with what I found, but at least I know where she is coming from.


I would not be surprised if he was depressed or to find out he has been for a while now. Would he be angry if he was depressed?


----------



## Manchester

jmv2003 said:


> I would not be surprised if he was depressed or to find out he has been for a while now. Would he be angry if he was depressed?


Depression IS anger-usually turned inwards, but not always.


----------



## jmv2003

Manchester said:


> Depression IS anger-usually turned inwards, but not always.



Yea? He seems to get angry, frustrated, annoyed very easily...he was never like this before! Could that be depression?


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## GTdad

jmv2003 said:


> Yea? He seems to get angry, frustrated, annoyed very easily...he was never like this before! Could that be depression?


Those were my symptoms when I went through an episode of depression a dozen-or-so years ago.

The hardest thing for me was to admit I needed outside help, though.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

It sounds like depression to me. However, are you sure that he doesn't have some sort of addiction? An addiction would explain the long periods of no contact. 

Unfortunately, I don't think that there's anything you can really do. He's decided that he's done, and maybe he's just exhausted from the relationship. Maybe he's given up? I say give him the space that he seems to need right now. Only talk to him concerning the kids. I'd actually start forcing him to contact you if he wants to see the kids. In the mean time, start prepping for being a single mom as that's where you're heading.


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## WonkyNinja

jmv2003 said:


> Thank you so much for taking the time to answer! I could never help him or even shut down his suggestions because he never gave any. For months before we separated, he was like a robot. Sleep on the couch, go to work, come home, play with kids, do some housework, go to sleep and repeat. I BEGGED him to talk to me! And I would have listened! I would listen now. I am seeing a therapist who I love! My husband says he doesnt need therapy. We were going to go to a new couples therapist. He wanted to but says only to be better parents. I agree with that but he wants to go and not talk about us at all. Even my therapist says that cant happen. A therapist would need some background and our current situation. So, the conversation ended with him saying nevermind, maybe we should go separately. I told him I have someone(he knows this). He said maybe he will go alone. I never responded, just hoped that he would. This was a week ago.


I have a very long time friend who had this exact same situation with her H. She tried discussing but all she ever got was "I don't really know" or "Whatever makes you happy". The last one was meant to help but what would have made her happy was her 30 year H seeming like he could care at all about their relationship. They've split now. My W and her XH had a similar thing, he could not talk feelings, she had no idea what he was thinking even when they were divorcing. As it is he is remarried and delightfully happy, as are we, and they have managed to remain friends. Sometimes things just don't work between two people and that doesn't mean that either one of them is a bad person.



jmv2003 said:


> One more thing I would love your opinion on, if you dont mind! From the time we separated until now(about 2 months), when my husband doesnt have the kids, he impossible to reach. I understand he is going through a lot but he INSISTS he is done and fine, so why not answer your phone. I dont bug him by calling or texting a lot(ok, maybe the first week i did). A few times, I had to call him b/c he had the kids earlier that day and I needed to ask him a question. He will also not answer texts(how easy is that?). He has a personal and wok phone. I will call both, although I hate dealing with things through his work cell. He doesnt really live anywhere...he "moved" into his mothers house and stays at his sisters sometimes. He has a job that allows him to go in at all hours to fix things so he has been working A LOT! I think he sleeps in his car sometimes too. I used to tell him I would leave with the kids but I couldnt. I have no family to help me. He has a brother 2 streets away with a house and its just him and his son. Anyway, thought that info might help. Here is another reason I hate this. My husband was off today. He said he was not going in but he told me a few mins ago that he did. Our 7 year old tried to call him for 4 hours today...left voicemails too. He never answered or called back most likely b.c he thought it was me calling! What is this about? He always says its because he gets scared when he sees me calling. But honestly, I call him about once a week. I usually text and for the last 3 weeks,I haven called or texted about us!! What the heck is going on with him? Sorry if I rambled on...thank you!


My XW and I usually used text to converse, you can stop and think or cool down a little before you reply. 

This one I can't understand, it's beyond me how any parent can turn their back on their children. I think you are going to have to tell him forcefully that he does not get to ignore the kids under any circumstances. He must be there for his children anytime day or night. Have you told him that your 7 year old tried for 4 hours to contact him? You need to make sure that he knows that and if that sort of thing happens that really will hurt the children and harm his relationship with them for a long time. 

Maybe you could suggest that any text relating to the kids will start with "*KIDS*" so when he sees it he knows that it is kid issues, but in that case you can't use that just to get his attention or he'd stop looking even at those. I don't know if this is possible for you but getting another simple phone on your account with a new number would allow the kids to call him and he knows it is them calling and not you. That won't help you any but might help the kids.

A loving father turning away from their children sounds like severe depression to me but I have no qualification or training to back that up. 




jmv2003 said:


> I would not be surprised if he was depressed or to find out he has been for a while now. Would he be angry if he was depressed?





jmv2003 said:


> Yea? He seems to get angry, frustrated, annoyed very easily...he was never like this before! Could that be depression?


Could be or he could just retreat inwards and become apathetic to everything which sounds like the case here.

A couple of suggestions you might consider. a) You can make a shared family calendar, Google works but there are loads of others, and give him the link. You put any events regarding the kids there so he has no excuse to not know what they are doing. b) Keep a backup of all your text messages, you might need it as a record of all the times you've attempted to contact him with no reply. Your phone may deleted messages after X have been sent or your phone could go wrong and need a reset. I used this when my XW tried to deny that she had said or arranged something, funnily enough I never got a response when I sent her a screenshot of the conversation. 

I really do wish you luck.


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## anchorwatch

Only a doctor can diagnose, but does any of this fit?

Depression (major depression) Symptoms - Mayo Clinic


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## 3Xnocharm

I am seeing 3 possibilities here...

1- you really have been overbearing and he has withdrawn to protect himself. (based on your responses, I see this as the least likely...) 

2- he is depressed. 

3- He is cheating. ( or HAS cheated...) 

Has anyone else considered #3? For him to be as shut down as he is, seems a good possibility that he is feeling a tremendous amount of shame about something. Now he isn't responding to texts or calls, and no one is sure where he is staying. Might be worth checking into. 

OP cannot help him or work on the marriage if he will not tell her what his issues are.


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## jmv2003

GTdad said:


> Those were my symptoms when I went through an episode of depression a dozen-or-so years ago.
> 
> The hardest thing for me was to admit I needed outside help, though.


Were you going through a separation or anything traumatic? Do you mind sharing more details on how you acted alone and towards others? Thank you!


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## jmv2003

WonkyNinja said:


> I have a very long time friend who had this exact same situation with her H. She tried discussing but all she ever got was "I don't really know" or "Whatever makes you happy". The last one was meant to help but what would have made her happy was her 30 year H seeming like he could care at all about their relationship. They've split now. My W and her XH had a similar thing, he could not talk feelings, she had no idea what he was thinking even when they were divorcing. As it is he is remarried and delightfully happy, as are we, and they have managed to remain friends. Sometimes things just don't work between two people and that doesn't mean that either one of them is a bad person.
> 
> 
> 
> My XW and I usually used text to converse, you can stop and think or cool down a little before you reply.
> 
> This one I can't understand, it's beyond me how any parent can turn their back on their children. I think you are going to have to tell him forcefully that he does not get to ignore the kids under any circumstances. He must be there for his children anytime day or night. Have you told him that your 7 year old tried for 4 hours to contact him? You need to make sure that he knows that and if that sort of thing happens that really will hurt the children and harm his relationship with them for a long time.
> 
> Maybe you could suggest that any text relating to the kids will start with "*KIDS*" so when he sees it he knows that it is kid issues, but in that case you can't use that just to get his attention or he'd stop looking even at those. I don't know if this is possible for you but getting another simple phone on your account with a new number would allow the kids to call him and he knows it is them calling and not you. That won't help you any but might help the kids.
> 
> A loving father turning away from their children sounds like severe depression to me but I have no qualification or training to back that up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could be or he could just retreat inwards and become apathetic to everything which sounds like the case here.
> 
> A couple of suggestions you might consider. a) You can make a shared family calendar, Google works but there are loads of others, and give him the link. You put any events regarding the kids there so he has no excuse to not know what they are doing. b) Keep a backup of all your text messages, you might need it as a record of all the times you've attempted to contact him with no reply. Your phone may deleted messages after X have been sent or your phone could go wrong and need a reset. I used this when my XW tried to deny that she had said or arranged something, funnily enough I never got a response when I sent her a screenshot of the conversation.
> 
> I really do wish you luck.


I told him that his son was trying to call. He said he was at work with no connection. That can be true b/c I have been to his job but he never waits that long to respond. He said he will apologize ti him. As for a calendar, I found an app and had him download it. He rarely adds stuff. He tells me, therapists(when we first separated) and his family he is done, he will NOT change his mind and is ONLY concerned about the kids. The kids need to be happy he says but then he does this...i just dont know.


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## jmv2003

anchorwatch said:


> Only a doctor can diagnose, but does any of this fit?
> 
> Depression (major depression) Symptoms - Mayo Clinic


A few of them do...loss of interest, anger, physical pain. Maybe more...if he would admit it.


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## jmv2003

3Xnocharm said:


> I am seeing 3 possibilities here...
> 
> 1- you really have been overbearing and he has withdrawn to protect himself. (based on your responses, I see this as the least likely...)
> 
> 2- he is depressed.
> 
> 3- He is cheating. ( or HAS cheated...)
> 
> Has anyone else considered #3? For him to be as shut down as he is, seems a good possibility that he is feeling a tremendous amount of shame about something. Now he isn't responding to texts or calls, and no one is sure where he is staying. Might be worth checking into.
> 
> OP cannot help him or work on the marriage if he will not tell her what his issues are.


I see where you think he could be cheating...Ive thought about it but when I havent been able to get a hold of him(in the beg of our separation), I would go past his job and he would be there. Or a couple times when he wasnt answering, I found out he was at our friends houses doing side jobs. They are married friends. My husband does heating an ac work for some of them. I really feel like there is something else going on...like he has emotions that he cannot and/or does not want to deal with.


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## WonkyNinja

jmv2003 said:


> I see where you think he could be cheating...Ive thought about it but when I havent been able to get a hold of him(in the beg of our separation), I would go past his job and he would be there. Or a couple times when he wasnt answering, I found out he was at our friends houses doing side jobs. They are married friends. My husband does heating an ac work for some of them. I really feel like there is something else going on...like he has emotions that he cannot and/or does not want to deal with.


I'm going to guess here but if he were having an affair he would probably be trying to smarten up his act. A person that is moving between their brother's couch and sleeping in the car probably isn't going to be that great a catch to someone looking for an affair.


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## 3Xnocharm

jmv2003 said:


> I see where you think he could be cheating...Ive thought about it but when I havent been able to get a hold of him(in the beg of our separation), I would go past his job and he would be there. Or a couple times when he wasnt answering, I found out he was at our friends houses doing side jobs. They are married friends. My husband does heating an ac work for some of them. I really feel like there is something else going on...like he has emotions that he cannot and/or does not want to deal with.


Well that sounds positive, at least you've been able to confirm his whereabouts.


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## SunnyT

He doesn't want to talk to you. He doesn't want to talk about the marriage, or about you, or about him. He is mentally and physically separating his life from yours. He doesn't care about the stuff at the house for now...and he has no where to take it... and he doesn't want to discuss it with you. Pack it up....put it somewhere. 

It might smooth out some. But you can't fix him. 

Fix yourself. Get strong.


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## jmv2003

WonkyNinja said:


> I'm going to guess here but if he were having an affair he would probably be trying to smarten up his act. A person that is moving between their brother's couch and sleeping in the car probably isn't going to be that great a catch to someone looking for an affair.


I agree!


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## emmasmith

With a special focus on improving your relationship, a relationship therapy can surprise you with the results. No matter how depressed you are because of your relationship issues, such a therapy will let you solve all the problems and have that charm back to your life.


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## troubledinma

As a guy who doesn't like to "talk" and who has an "outspoken" wife, I know a bit about this. I can tell you that the only thing that can change the outcome in my marriage is me. When I don't talk, my wife gets in my face about everything - my instinct has always been and still is to further disengage. I get angry and retreat into myself. I ask myself "why can't she be quiet and just listen for once?" It sounds like your husband has been stuck in the disengagement stage. It doesn't really matter how nice you are to him when it gets to that point. The only thing that helps is me telling her exactly what I want and taking space when I can get it and to hold boundaries. I literally had to schedule a meeting with her and tell her I had to do the talking and not her. I was "too nice" for too long, thinking that not telling her I was unhappy would avoid pain. It made it much worse. Also, I was holding my wife responsible for not meeting my needs when I never told her what they were in the first place. I think a lot of men never break through this and realize it. I know men do not want to talk about feelings, but it is impossible, even for a spouse, to know what they want. It is also impossible for a spouse to push this. He didn't want to think about marriage. If you get another chance with him, try offering him space to go out with his friends or something for something he really wants to do. Give him space to not think about his marriage, but do it free of ultimatums or heavy handed edicts. 

Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk


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## jmv2003

emmasmith said:


> With a special focus on improving your relationship, a relationship therapy can surprise you with the results. No matter how depressed you are because of your relationship issues, such a therapy will let you solve all the problems and have that charm back to your life.


You mean for both of us? I see a therapist but he does not(that I know of).


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## jmv2003

troubledinma said:


> As a guy who doesn't like to "talk" and who has an "outspoken" wife, I know a bit about this. I can tell you that the only thing that can change the outcome in my marriage is me. When I don't talk, my wife gets in my face about everything - my instinct has always been and still is to further disengage. I get angry and retreat into myself. I ask myself "why can't she be quiet and just listen for once?" It sounds like your husband has been stuck in the disengagement stage. It doesn't really matter how nice you are to him when it gets to that point. The only thing that helps is me telling her exactly what I want and taking space when I can get it and to hold boundaries. I literally had to schedule a meeting with her and tell her I had to do the talking and not her. I was "too nice" for too long, thinking that not telling her I was unhappy would avoid pain. It made it much worse. Also, I was holding my wife responsible for not meeting my needs when I never told her what they were in the first place. I think a lot of men never break through this and realize it. I know men do not want to talk about feelings, but it is impossible, even for a spouse, to know what they want. It is also impossible for a spouse to push this. He didn't want to think about marriage. If you get another chance with him, try offering him space to go out with his friends or something for something he really wants to do. Give him space to not think about his marriage, but do it free of ultimatums or heavy handed edicts.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk


I totally get what you are saying and I agree with some of it BUT one thing I don't agree with is him doing things that make him happy. I always asked him what would make him happy, I wanted him to go out with friends but he didnt. He barely has friends.


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## jmv2003

Hey everyone! Thank you so much for all of the great responses! I am having a crappy night...nothing new has really happened. Talked to my husband on the phone earlier(a mistake). He reminded me that he is done. I just don't understand. He talks divorce. Less than 3 months ago he wanted to work on us, now hes just done?? He says we're just not compatible, says hes not angry and it just didnt work out. Like we have been dating for a month and it is ending. But thats not the case! We are married and I have no answers! I think he really is angry and he hates me a little. I think I hurt him and now he is hurting me. But when does it stop???


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## Manchester

jmv2003 said:


> Like we have been dating for a month and it is ending. But thats not the case! We are married and I have no answers! I think he really is angry and he hates me a little. I think I hurt him and now he is hurting me. But when does it stop???


You speak about being married as if it's some sort of extra layer of protection against people changing their minds and losing their love for someone. It's not. It's just a legal contract that makes it more difficult to split up, nothing more.

When will it stop? From the look of it, when you're no longer in each other's lives. I'm going to wager a guess that when you say to him "Ok, we're done, I get it. Let's sit down and figure out how to get this split done in a fast, relatively painless manner", he will become easier to deal with. Right now he feels trapped in a relationship, in a life, with a person he'd rather never see again.


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## troubledinma

jmv2003 said:


> I totally get what you are saying and I agree with some of it BUT one thing I don't agree with is him doing things that make him happy. I always asked him what would make him happy, I wanted him to go out with friends but he didnt. He barely has friends.


That is what I am saying - he needs to come to that conclusion on his own. He is probably convinced you are the cause of his unhappiness. I don't think you necessarily are, but he doesn't seem to be doing much to improve his own happiness. You can't fix that. 

Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk


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## x598

OP i think your marriage was a lot like mine.

let me say a couple things first. Normally when someone so quickly is done I would say there is an affair going on. you seem to have ruled that out, and if that really is the case there, the explanation i will give you i don't think you will like. its just my opinion.

I think you had a huge hand in destroying your marriage. My guess would be your admitted outgoing style simply became unbearable for your husband once pushed to the brink by telling him to get out.....it was the trigger he needed to bolt.

My XW never hesitated to judge, brow beat her opinion home on the smallest or most trivial of matters. Like your husband....I found it easier to just GIVE IN to keep the peace and not make mountains out of what i saw was mole hills.

The problem is, over the years, it wore me down to a point where i didn't really care anymore. When we had disagreements, i would stand up for myself, but even when she could logically be proven wrong.....it didn't matter. it was like winning the battle but loosing the war. The "trigger" for me was discovering her then having an affair. I should have left her long before.

The point is...you see it as being "outgoing"....i would put good $$$ down he see's it as a naggy, impossible, hyper critical and judgmental spouse that he is simply tired of dealing with.

I think the only chance for your marriage to survive is if you take a hard look at yourself. This will not be easy becasue i would guess things you think are fine and a non issue to him have killed his love for you.


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## jmv2003

x598 said:


> OP i think your marriage was a lot like mine.
> 
> let me say a couple things first. Normally when someone so quickly is done I would say there is an affair going on. you seem to have ruled that out, and if that really is the case there, the explanation i will give you i don't think you will like. its just my opinion.
> 
> I think you had a huge hand in destroying your marriage. My guess would be your admitted outgoing style simply became unbearable for your husband once pushed to the brink by telling him to get out.....it was the trigger he needed to bolt.
> 
> My XW never hesitated to judge, brow beat her opinion home on the smallest or most trivial of matters. Like your husband....I found it easier to just GIVE IN to keep the peace and not make mountains out of what i saw was mole hills.
> 
> The problem is, over the years, it wore me down to a point where i didn't really care anymore. When we had disagreements, i would stand up for myself, but even when she could logically be proven wrong.....it didn't matter. it was like winning the battle but loosing the war. The "trigger" for me was discovering her then having an affair. I should have left her long before.
> 
> The point is...you see it as being "outgoing"....i would put good $$$ down he see's it as a naggy, impossible, hyper critical and judgmental spouse that he is simply tired of dealing with.
> 
> I think the only chance for your marriage to survive is if you take a hard look at yourself. This will not be easy becasue i would guess things you think are fine and a non issue to him have killed his love for you.


I see what you are saying but I do look at things we have been through and I know that there are thing I have done wrong. I have a therapist and I am working on myself. I have even apologized to him for a lot of it. When he left, I was able to relax and breathe. I was able to reflect and see where we were really going wrong. We were both wrong. The things is, I admit it and I don't think he does. I think he blames me for all of it, which is unfair. Until he can look at the things we have been through and understand that we were both at fault, I dont think we can ever fix things.


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## sokillme

jmv2003 said:


> Thank you so much for taking the time to answer! I could never help him or even shut down his suggestions because he never gave any. For months before we separated, he was like a robot. Sleep on the couch, go to work, come home, play with kids, do some housework, go to sleep and repeat. I BEGGED him to talk to me! And I would have listened! I would listen now. I am seeing a therapist who I love! My husband says he doesnt need therapy. We were going to go to a new couples therapist. He wanted to but says only to be better parents. I agree with that but he wants to go and not talk about us at all. Even my therapist says that cant happen. A therapist would need some background and our current situation. So, the conversation ended with him saying nevermind, maybe we should go separately. I told him I have someone(he knows this). He said maybe he will go alone. I never responded, just hoped that he would. This was a week ago.
> One more thing I would love your opinion on, if you dont mind! From the time we separated until now(about 2 months), when my husband doesnt have the kids, he impossible to reach. I understand he is going through a lot but he INSISTS he is done and fine, so why not answer your phone. I dont bug him by calling or texting a lot(ok, maybe the first week i did). A few times, I had to call him b/c he had the kids earlier that day and I needed to ask him a question. He will also not answer texts(how easy is that?). He has a personal and wok phone. I will call both, although I hate dealing with things through his work cell. He doesnt really live anywhere...he "moved" into his mothers house and stays at his sisters sometimes. He has a job that allows him to go in at all hours to fix things so he has been working A LOT! I think he sleeps in his car sometimes too. I used to tell him I would leave with the kids but I couldnt. I have no family to help me. He has a brother 2 streets away with a house and its just him and his son. Anyway, thought that info might help. Here is another reason I hate this. My husband was off today. He said he was not going in but he told me a few mins ago that he did. Our 7 year old tried to call him for 4 hours today...left voicemails too. He never answered or called back most likely b.c he thought it was me calling! What is this about? He always says its because he gets scared when he sees me calling. But honestly, I call him about once a week. I usually text and for the last 3 weeks,I haven called or texted about us!! What the heck is going on with him? Sorry if I rambled on...thank you!


You sure there is no one else, guilt seems reasonable. I hate that I am this cynical by the way. issed: Also nagging could be it. You say you did a lot of things wrong, what things. Be specific.


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## jmv2003

sokillme said:


> You sure there is no one else, guilt seems reasonable. I hate that I am this cynical by the way. issed: Also nagging could be it. You say you did a lot of things wrong, what things. Be specific.


It seems that he is done because he blames me and wants to get through to me that we are done. if there were someone else, why wouldn't he tell me? He knows I would get mad but then I would be done with him for being with someone else. The thing that I regret the most is allowing myself to get so angry and say some things sometimes that weren't nice.


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## sokillme

jmv2003 said:


> It seems that he is done because he blames me and wants to get through to me that we are done. if there were someone else, why wouldn't he tell me? He knows I would get mad but then I would be done with him for being with someone else. The thing that I regret the most is allowing myself to get so angry and say some things sometimes that weren't nice.



I am thinking more in the lines of him feeling guilt for cheating on you. Maybe even one time and then turning away, maybe that's why he was crying. Maybe he can't bring himself to tell you so he is taking an out. I would ask him point blank. Did you cheat on me, is that what this is about. 

A different possibility --

This is a little over the top but I think the gist of it is still there the comments are especially good. Lots of men, when they feel like there wife doesn't respect them, just tune out. It's kind of like how woman tune out without emotional attachment. I would never want my wife to not tell me when she thinks I am wrong, but I expect her to do it in a way that honors my commitment to her. I think I have earned the benefit. Is it possible your being mean to him has made him feel like you don't respect him?


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## jmv2003

sokillme said:


> I am thinking more in the lines of him feeling guilt for cheating on you. Maybe even one time and then turning away, maybe that's why he was crying. Maybe he can't bring himself to tell you so he is taking an out. I would ask him point blank. Did you cheat on me, is that what this is about.
> 
> A different possibility --
> 
> This is a little over the top but I think the gist of it is still there the comments are especially good. Lots of men, when they feel like there wife doesn't respect them, just tune out. It's kind of like how woman tune out without emotional attachment. I would never want my wife to not tell me when she thinks I am wrong, but I expect her to do it in a way that honors my commitment to her. I think I have earned the benefit. Is it possible your being mean to him has made him feel like you don't respect him?


I definitely think he feels disrespected! I wish I could fix it but I can't. As far as cheating, I don't believe for a second he did while we were living together. When I've asked him about it now, because I would like to know where we stand and how that works, he does not want to talk about it ans insists that there is nobody else. Of course things run through my head from time to time but I believe him...so do other people. I truly feel that this is all anger. And even if he wants to say that maybe in the future we could try again, he just can't bring himself to do it. Even if he is unhappy, working like crazy, missing me and the kids, he will NOT admit it. I also believe that he is doing a lot of this to hurt me. Does this make sense?


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## sokillme

jmv2003 said:


> I definitely think he feels disrespected! I wish I could fix it but I can't. As far as cheating, I don't believe for a second he did while we were living together. When I've asked him about it now, because I would like to know where we stand and how that works, he does not want to talk about it ans insists that there is nobody else. Of course things run through my head from time to time but I believe him...so do other people. I truly feel that this is all anger. And even if he wants to say that maybe in the future we could try again, he just can't bring himself to do it. Even if he is unhappy, working like crazy, missing me and the kids, he will NOT admit it. I also believe that he is doing a lot of this to hurt me. Does this make sense?


I don't think he is trying to hurt you, he doesn't seem the type. I think he is truly done. I believe if you treated him dismissively, whether by yourselves or in front of others you broke his bond with you. He doesn't think he can be the type of man you can respect and he doesn't want to be disrespected. In a way you not believing his honest reasons and instead assigning some sort of petty motive for not getting back with you is still disrespecting him. Why would you think the man is so vindictive has he done stuff like this to you in the past. Doesn't sound like it. Just sounds like he is tired of trying. 

I think this is similar to a lot of woman whose husbands are verbally abusive. Eventually the bond is broken, no matter how much the husband apologizes. Your guy doesn't sound sneaky he sounds like an honest ordinary good guy. I think everything he told you is true. From his perspective it just doesn't work anymore. Maybe it still works for you but it doesn't work for him. 

Only way you will get him back if you have disrespected him is to have a come to Jesus moment that he can recognize. No one likes being disrespected, but men need to feel respected, kind of like woman want to feel beautiful. It is part of the knight and shining armor thing. See just like lots of woman grow up wanting to be the princess, us men grow up wanting to be the action hero in our own lives. At least to our families. Well you can't be the action hero when the heroine is calling you a dumb ass. How can I be her knight if she thinks I am an idiot. If I were you I would maybe write a letter and apologize but I would apologize specifically for events where you think you disrespected him and why it was disrespecting. He doesn't trust that you are going to change. He doesn't want to be made to feel the fool anymore. He wants someone who will respect and honor him in front of others and when he is with her. Can you be that? You have to prove that. 

By the way this doesn't mean you have to agree with him or you can't have fights, but it does me you have to do it with respect. You have to be mindful how what you say and who you say it too and in front of makes him look. This is the man you married, the father of your child. How you talk to him reflects on you. You picked him so putting him down only makes you look bad. If you have exposed your issues to others especially if you said disrespectful belittling things about him you have made him seem and feel weak. Most men will lose there bond with a woman who does that to him.

Even if it is not him, most men (strong in character) are not going to stick around a woman who belittles him. If you want an assertive man you need to fix your stuff.


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## 3Xnocharm

I feel like no matter what the reasoning is for him to have reached this point of being done, YOU deserve to know WHY. Even if the reason is 100% you, all your fault, you deserve to know that. (not saying it is, don't read into that...) Any of us deserve to know the reason for a marriage ending, especially if it IS us! I would rather have my heart crushed by the truth of what I did wrong than to try and move forward never knowing. How else do we know what to do differently? Your H staying clammed up is just not fair.


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## jmv2003

sokillme said:


> I don't think he is trying to hurt you, he doesn't seem the type. I think he is truly done. I believe if you treated him dismissively, whether by yourselves or in front of others you broke his bond with you. He doesn't think he can be the type of man you can respect and he doesn't want to be disrespected. In a way you not believing his honest reasons and instead assigning some sort of petty motive for not getting back with you is still disrespecting him. Why would you think the man is so vindictive has he done stuff like this to you in the past. Doesn't sound like it. Just sounds like he is tired of trying.
> 
> I think this is similar to a lot of woman whose husbands are verbally abusive. Eventually the bond is broken, no matter how much the husband apologizes. Your guy doesn't sound sneaky he sounds like an honest ordinary good guy. I think everything he told you is true. From his perspective it just doesn't work anymore. Maybe it still works for you but it doesn't work for him.
> 
> Only way you will get him back if you have disrespected him is to have a come to Jesus moment that he can recognize. No one likes being disrespected, but men need to feel respected, kind of like woman want to feel beautiful. It is part of the knight and shining armor thing. See just like lots of woman grow up wanting to be the princess, us men grow up wanting to be the action hero in our own lives. At least to our families. Well you can't be the action hero when the heroine is calling you a dumb ass. How can I be her knight if she thinks I am an idiot. If I were you I would maybe write a letter and apologize but I would apologize specifically for events where you think you disrespected him and why it was disrespecting. He doesn't trust that you are going to change. He doesn't want to be made to feel the fool anymore. He wants someone who will respect and honor him in front of others and when he is with her. Can you be that? You have to prove that.
> 
> By the way this doesn't mean you have to agree with him or you can't have fights, but it does me you have to do it with respect. You have to be mindful how what you say and who you say it too and in front of makes him look. This is the man you married, the father of your child. How you talk to him reflects on you. You picked him so putting him down only makes you look bad. If you have exposed your issues to others especially if you said disrespectful belittling things about him you have made him seem and feel weak. Most men will lose there bond with a woman who does that to him.
> 
> Even if it is not him, most men (strong in character) are not going to stick around a woman who belittles him. If you want an assertive man you need to fix your stuff.


I totally agree with what you were saying. I can see why men want to be respected and not be put down. In my defense, I just wanted answers. I wanted to know why he was changing and what I could do to help him but he would never answer me. Him deciding to hold things in and not make him happy affected me. For example, a couple years ago I got pregnant. We are not trying but we were happy, especially me, I was excited! Unfortunately at 9 weeks I had a miscarriage. I'm sure that this affected him but because he decided to shut down and not talk about it, he was also not there for me. I went through it alone and it really hurt me. When we will go to therapy, he would say that I will never be able to forgive him for things like this. I told him I definitely could forgive him but I needed to know why he treated me like that so that it wouldn't happen again in the future. I wanted to be able to handle things like that better in the future. Lake with a lot of men, I think he is an All or Nothing person. Another example is if he went out with friends one night and came home at 2 in the morning and I suggested maybe next time he come home a little earlier because it's a weekday he would say fine, I'm there I I just won't go out anymore. I feel like that's how he's treating our relationship. Instead of him having to open up, communicate, be honest, and work to save our marriage he would rather just say I'm hurt and I'm done. Does this make sense to you? Can you relate? Right now I'm giving us space. I think it's good for us even though he says he'll never change his mind. Do you have any other advice for me?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sokillme

jmv2003 said:


> I totally agree with what you were saying. I can see why men want to be respected and not be put down. In my defense, I just wanted answers. I wanted to know why he was changing and what I could do to help him but he would never answer me. Him deciding to hold things in and not make him happy affected me. For example, a couple years ago I got pregnant. We are not trying but we were happy, especially me, I was excited! Unfortunately at 9 weeks I had a miscarriage. I'm sure that this affected him but because he decided to shut down and not talk about it, he was also not there for me. I went through it alone and it really hurt me. When we will go to therapy, he would say that I will never be able to forgive him for things like this. I told him I definitely could forgive him but I needed to know why he treated me like that so that it wouldn't happen again in the future. I wanted to be able to handle things like that better in the future. Lake with a lot of men, I think he is an All or Nothing person. Another example is if he went out with friends one night and came home at 2 in the morning and I suggested maybe next time he come home a little earlier because it's a weekday he would say fine, I'm there I I just won't go out anymore. I feel like that's how he's treating our relationship. Instead of him having to open up, communicate, be honest, and work to save our marriage he would rather just say I'm hurt and I'm done. Does this make sense to you? Can you relate? Right now I'm giving us space. I think it's good for us even though he says he'll never change his mind. Do you have any other advice for me?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ever think it is not in his nature and you might be better off without him? Maybe he has figured this out.


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## jmv2003

3Xnocharm said:


> I feel like no matter what the reasoning is for him to have reached this point of being done, YOU deserve to know WHY. Even if the reason is 100% you, all your fault, you deserve to know that. (not saying it is, don't read into that...) Any of us deserve to know the reason for a marriage ending, especially if it IS us! I would rather have my heart crushed by the truth of what I did wrong than to try and move forward never knowing. How else do we know what to do differently? Your H staying clammed up is just not fair.


THANK YOU! Your comment just made my day! This is how I feel. I don't get straight answers. All I get is that he is done. And you know what? We're both guilty. Neither one of us did anything horrible to the other one we just had poor communication. All I ever needed answers as to why he was acting the way he was and shutting down all of the time because he never used to be like that when we were first together. So now, I still don't have the answers from when we were living together and now I don't have the answers as to why he's done all of a sudden! He wouldn't say it's all the sudden. He would say it's been building up for a while now. But just in July, we were in therapy and he was a hundred percent in to working on our marriage. I truly believe he is acting this way because he had to leave his home. He needs to get help and get over it and realize that his irrational decisions are going to lead to him losing his wife and his family. We will be a broken home because he won't open up and try one more time to make this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jmv2003

sokillme said:


> Ever think it is not in his nature and you might be better off without him? Maybe he has figured this out.


I thought about it but I would really like to give us another chance. I don't think it's in his nature. I really think there's something wrong, possibly depression. In the last four years his personality has drastically changed
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe

Consider reading The Surrendered Wife. Remember the only person you can change is yourself.


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## 3Xnocharm

jmv2003 said:


> THANK YOU! Your comment just made my day! This is how I feel. I don't get straight answers. All I get is that he is done. And you know what? We're both guilty. Neither one of us did anything horrible to the other one we just had poor communication. All I ever needed answers as to why he was acting the way he was and shutting down all of the time because he never used to be like that when we were first together. So now, I still don't have the answers from when we were living together and now I don't have the answers as to why he's done all of a sudden! He wouldn't say it's all the sudden. He would say it's been building up for a while now. But just in July, we were in therapy and he was a hundred percent in to working on our marriage. I* truly believe he is acting this way because he had to leave his home. He needs to get help and get over it and realize that his irrational decisions are going to lead to him losing his wife and his family. We will be a broken home because he won't open up and try one more time to make this
> *_Posted via Mobile Device_


Ah but *HERE* is what you need to watch...you are judging. If he DID come to you and open up, THIS is what you need to NOT do. Take ownership of what he says you have done, if he does that. You cannot argue and tell him he is wrong, or blameshift back around to him.


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## x598

3Xnocharm said:


> Ah but *HERE* is what you need to watch...you are judging. If he DID come to you and open up, THIS is what you need to NOT do. Take ownership of what he says you have done, if he does that. You cannot argue and tell him he is wrong, or blameshift back around to him.


agreed....seeing a lot of that in this thread.


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## MarriedTex

jmv2003 said:


> It seems that he is done because he blames me and wants to get through to me that we are done. if there were someone else, why wouldn't he tell me? He knows I would get mad but then I would be done with him for being with someone else. The thing that I regret the most is allowing myself to get so angry and say some things sometimes that weren't nice.


My bet is that you are dealing with a "Nice Guy" in the Dr. Robert Glover sense. For years, he has been giving in, capitulating, sacrificing all just to make you happy. This becomes a marriage death spiral. He tries to do nice things for you and you wind up nagging him about something else. He goes out until 2 a.m. and you nag him about staying out too late. I would bet that we are hearing a sanitized version of your interactions from your perspective. Rightly or wrongly, he perceives that he has done nothing but give, give, give and the thanks he gets is to get yelled at and asked repeatedly to leave. I'm not saying this is an accurate picture, but it is HIS perception of reality.

By the time he stopped talking to you while living in the same house, the ship had already sailed. Through years of interaction, you had trained him that life is easier when he just keeps his head down, keeps working and plays with the kids every once in awhile. You were not a positive in his life. You became the obstacle to him enjoying life. Yes, he stayed and stayed out of some sense of overall duty to you and to the marriage. 

His perception right now is that you did not recognize the sacrifices he has been making on your behalf for years, putting your happiness ahead of his own. By criticizing his actions and telling him to get out, you were basically telling him that all his years of sacrifice were not valued and appreciated. In the Glover sense, he had a "covert contract" in which he assumed that you would reciprocate the level of kindness he poured into the relationship and give back to him in a major way. As life / kids got in the way, he probably began to realize he was being shortchanged on his covert contract with you. From his perspective, he was pouring effort into a person who did not like him, was not treating him well and was urging him to get out. At some point, he felt like he was the only one putting effort into the marriage. Because you failed to live up to the terms of the "covert contract" that he forged (without ever sharing his expectations with you), he has developed a level of resentment that has literally been building for years.

In analyzing the situation, you appear to be focusing on the events of the past couple of months. Trust me, for him, the perceived slights he feels go back years and have been buried in his pysche for a long, long time. I would assume there are things that you did to him five, seven years ago that he still harbors resentment over. He just never expressed his feelings in order to maintain a "happy" relationship.

He is incapable of expressing these resentments. In his mind, if you had loved him, you would have been a mind-reader & recognized his pain and addressed them. That's not fair to you, but that's the way it is. Instead of recognizing his sacrifices, you ratcheted up the complaints, demands and unhappiness. He thinks he did everything he could for the relationship, and - if he can't make you happy after all this - then he should just move on and blame himself for "not being good enough for her."

There is a lot of self-projection in this analysis. I faced many of the same feelings years ago. It's disheartening to be making what you see to be sacrifices in your personal happiness for the sake of your spouse and then turn around and have that spouse be argumentative and generally unhappy. Over time, it makes you feel hopeless. Like, nothing I can ever do is good enough. My bet is that your husband is right about at that point now. 

The reason he can talk to you at the kids' events is because he knows it's a safe zone. You won't tear his head off in public. Whether you recognize it or not, I would bet money that you do not use the same tone in speaking with him at these events as you do when you're in private one-on-one conversations. He's burned out. He's tired of giving and putting effort into a relationship where his spouse not only does not appreciate his sacrifice but is openly hostile to him and tells him to get out. 

This is not fair to you, of course, because he did not express his displeasure. You can't really make adjustments without feedback from your spouse. Your only hope is to do some honest introspection on your life together, recognize times in the past when husband has made sacrifices that you did not really acknowledge at the time, apologize for taking him for granted and then try to set rules for the future where both of you should take steps to communicate more effectively.


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## x598

> In the Glover sense, he had a "covert contract" in which he assumed that you would reciprocate the level of kindness he poured into the relationship and give back to him in a major way.


can this really be consider a covert contract? I mean vows are taken...to "love honor and cherish" and yet if we desire to be treated with a certain amount of decency and respect it is to be considered a cover contract? I have a hard time with this idea.



> The reason he can talk to you at the kids' events is because he knows it's a safe zone. You won't tear his head off in public. Whether you recognize it or not, I would bet money that you do not use the same tone in speaking with him at these events as you do when you're in private one-on-one conversations. He's burned out. He's tired of giving and putting effort into a relationship where his spouse not only does not appreciate his sacrifice but is openly hostile to him and tells him to get out.


agree x 100



> He is incapable of expressing these resentments. In his mind, if you had loved him, you would have been a mind-reader & recognized his pain and addressed them. That's not fair to you, but that's the way it is. Instead of recognizing his sacrifices, you ratcheted up the complaints, demands and unhappiness. He thinks he did everything he could for the relationship, and - if he can't make you happy after all this - then he should just move on and blame himself for "not being good enough for her."



not sure i agree with this. if i had to guess his mind (which is what you are doing)....I would offer over time, he was worn down by arguing, feeling unheard and walked over. What's the point of trying to express how you feel to someone who will tell you that YOU are wrong. it becomes a war of attrition. and at some point you stop fighting.


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## sokillme

jmv2003 said:


> I thought about it but I would really like to give us another chance. I don't think it's in his nature. I really think there's something wrong, possibly depression. In the last four years his personality has drastically changed
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



JMV you can't make him talk to you if he doesn't want to. There could be 100 reasons why and us speculating on here isn't going to give you the answers. We all can see that this is not what you want but in this case you have no control over this. You have to deal with reality and reality right now is he says he is done. You should take him at his word and start making plans. 

Sorry.


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## AVR1962

Could this be a control issue on your husband's part? Is he tuning you out because he doesn't care, doesn't want to involve himself, doesn't want to talk in any kind of in-depth discussion, or is it a matter of control because he knows it will gte you upset and he has to show the world and himself that you are the crazy one?

My ex was passive-aggressive and ignoring me was his specialty!


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## 3Xnocharm

AVR1962 said:


> Could this be a control issue on your husband's part? Is he tuning you out because he doesn't care, doesn't want to involve himself, doesn't want to talk in any kind of in-depth discussion, or is it a matter of control because he knows it will gte you upset and he has to show the world and himself that you are the crazy one?
> 
> My ex was passive-aggressive and ignoring me was his specialty!


Honestly, I dont get this vibe here, with what she has said about him. (the whole control thing, I mean) To me it sounds like he just wants to cover his head, run away and hide. He is just that done. 

I sure would like to be a fly on the wall if he ever decides to open up about what is going on with him.


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## WonkyNinja

jmv2003 said:


> I totally agree with what you were saying. *I can see why men want to be respected and not be put down.*


Both partners in any relationship want to be respected and not put down by their SO, not just men, and both have the right to expect to be treated that way.


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## jmv2003

wonkyninja said:


> both partners in any relationship want to be respected and not put down by their so, not just men, and both have the right to expect to be treated that way.


agreed!


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## jmv2003

Looking for a little more advice please. Things are not really any better for us. As long as I keep my distance from my husband, I am okay. It is very hard to move on when it is not what I want my husband still says he's done and "it just didn't work" for us but offers no real reasons. He will go to therapy but only wants to go to the one we went to when he still lived home and I don't feel comfortable with her. My husband has a way of sitting there with his sad puppy face while I speak my mind and it feels that they tend to side with him. Anyway, we tried a new therapist and he got mad when she asked about our marriage. I was shocked to see him get this angry in front of her. She needs background information to help us. He thinks that we can go there and she can just magically tell us how to be good parents without knowing what we've been through or what we are going through now. I don't understand how my husband can wipe his hands of our marriage so easily. He says that he misses the family, I can tell that he wants to be here with the kids but he does nothing to better himself or better us. What I mean by that is that he does not go to therapy and does not put effort into making schedules. I do all of this. He will also ask me if I want him to see the kids instead of asking me if he can see them. He is very confusing. The only emotion my husband ever shows now is anger. He was never an angry person and I really wish I knew what was going on with him. I am also trying to help myself the best that I can. It's very hard. I admit that I had my faults in our marriage but I'm getting help for it and I have apologized to my husband. All he does is blame me. It's embarrassing to tell people about what's going on. People that have known my husband and me for a long time cannot believe that he is acting this way. They know that he is not that kind of man. I feel ashamed and embarrassed when I have to tell people what is going on. I feel like a loser and I feel upset thinking that my husband would just be done with me. He doesn't care what I do or if I move on with other men. Why won't he just express himself? What should I do? This is affecting our children , mostly are 7 year old and I am really trying to figure things out and make things as normal as I can. I am open to any advice but please be kind. Thank you!


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## Seppuku

I haven't read the whole thread, but I have one question - why is he mad? You said he was angry even before you threw him out. Why?


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## 3Xnocharm

jmv2003 said:


> Looking for a little more advice please. Things are not really any better for us. As long as I keep my distance from my husband, I am okay. It is very hard to move on when it is not what I want my husband still says he's done and "it just didn't work" for us but offers no real reasons. He will go to therapy but only wants to go to the one we went to when he still lived home and I don't feel comfortable with her. My husband has a way of sitting there with his sad puppy face while I speak my mind and it feels that they tend to side with him. Anyway, we tried a new therapist and he got mad when she asked about our marriage. I was shocked to see him get this angry in front of her. She needs background information to help us. He thinks that we can go there and she can just magically tell us how to be good parents without knowing what we've been through or what we are going through now. I don't understand how my husband can wipe his hands of our marriage so easily.


If the one therapist is the only one he is interested in talking to, then I would suggest that is who you use, otherwise you keep wasting your time. Maybe he sits there with that pathetic look when you are talking because he feels attacked? At this point, honestly, the WHY doesn't matter any more, he is done, and you are just beating a dead horse. You need to come to terms with the fact that you may NEVER know exactly what is going on in his mind with all of this, because clearly, he wants to keep that to himself. Not that it doesn't suck....




jmv2003 said:


> He says that he misses the family, I can tell that he wants to be here with the kids but he does nothing to better himself or better us. What I mean by that is that he does not go to therapy and does not put effort into making schedules. I do all of this. He will also ask me if I want him to see the kids instead of asking me if he can see them. He is very confusing. The only emotion my husband ever shows now is anger. He was never an angry person and I really wish I knew what was going on with him. I am also trying to help myself the best that I can. It's very hard. I admit that I had my faults in our marriage but I'm getting help for it and I have apologized to my husband. All he does is blame me. It's embarrassing to tell people about what's going on. People that have known my husband and me for a long time cannot believe that he is acting this way. They know that he is not that kind of man. I feel ashamed and embarrassed when I have to tell people what is going on. I feel like a loser and I feel upset thinking that my husband would just be done with me. He doesn't care what I do or if I move on with other men. Why won't he just express himself? What should I do? This is affecting our children , mostly are 7 year old and I am really trying to figure things out and make things as normal as I can. I am open to any advice but please be kind. Thank you!


You need to disengage with him. His relationship with his children is HIS responsibility, not yours. Make it clear to him next time he asks if YOU want him to see the kids, exactly that...this is HIS responsibility. I know you would not prevent him from seeing the kids, but this is up to HIM to make things happen. Honestly, if he wants to see them, then he will make arrangements to do so... he doesn't seem to be making much effort, from what you have described. File for a legal separation and spell out visitation and support details.

What other people think about your situation isn't important, its not their business. Let that go.


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## jmv2003

MarriedTex said:


> My bet is that you are dealing with a "Nice Guy" in the Dr. Robert Glover sense. For years, he has been giving in, capitulating, sacrificing all just to make you happy. This becomes a marriage death spiral. He tries to do nice things for you and you wind up nagging him about something else. He goes out until 2 a.m. and you nag him about staying out too late. I would bet that we are hearing a sanitized version of your interactions from your perspective. Rightly or wrongly, he perceives that he has done nothing but give, give, give and the thanks he gets is to get yelled at and asked repeatedly to leave. I'm not saying this is an accurate picture, but it is HIS perception of reality.
> 
> By the time he stopped talking to you while living in the same house, the ship had already sailed. Through years of interaction, you had trained him that life is easier when he just keeps his head down, keeps working and plays with the kids every once in awhile. You were not a positive in his life. You became the obstacle to him enjoying life. Yes, he stayed and stayed out of some sense of overall duty to you and to the marriage.
> 
> His perception right now is that you did not recognize the sacrifices he has been making on your behalf for years, putting your happiness ahead of his own. By criticizing his actions and telling him to get out, you were basically telling him that all his years of sacrifice were not valued and appreciated. In the Glover sense, he had a "covert contract" in which he assumed that you would reciprocate the level of kindness he poured into the relationship and give back to him in a major way. As life / kids got in the way, he probably began to realize he was being shortchanged on his covert contract with you. From his perspective, he was pouring effort into a person who did not like him, was not treating him well and was urging him to get out. At some point, he felt like he was the only one putting effort into the marriage. Because you failed to live up to the terms of the "covert contract" that he forged (without ever sharing his expectations with you), he has developed a level of resentment that has literally been building for years.
> 
> In analyzing the situation, you appear to be focusing on the events of the past couple of months. Trust me, for him, the perceived slights he feels go back years and have been buried in his pysche for a long, long time. I would assume there are things that you did to him five, seven years ago that he still harbors resentment over. He just never expressed his feelings in order to maintain a "happy" relationship.
> 
> He is incapable of expressing these resentments. In his mind, if you had loved him, you would have been a mind-reader & recognized his pain and addressed them. That's not fair to you, but that's the way it is. Instead of recognizing his sacrifices, you ratcheted up the complaints, demands and unhappiness. He thinks he did everything he could for the relationship, and - if he can't make you happy after all this - then he should just move on and blame himself for "not being good enough for her."
> 
> There is a lot of self-projection in this analysis. I faced many of the same feelings years ago. It's disheartening to be making what you see to be sacrifices in your personal happiness for the sake of your spouse and then turn around and have that spouse be argumentative and generally unhappy. Over time, it makes you feel hopeless. Like, nothing I can ever do is good enough. My bet is that your husband is right about at that point now.
> 
> The reason he can talk to you at the kids' events is because he knows it's a safe zone. You won't tear his head off in public. Whether you recognize it or not, I would bet money that you do not use the same tone in speaking with him at these events as you do when you're in private one-on-one conversations. He's burned out. He's tired of giving and putting effort into a relationship where his spouse not only does not appreciate his sacrifice but is openly hostile to him and tells him to get out.
> 
> This is not fair to you, of course, because he did not express his displeasure. You can't really make adjustments without feedback from your spouse. Your only hope is to do some honest introspection on your life together, recognize times in the past when husband has made sacrifices that you did not really acknowledge at the time, apologize for taking him for granted and then try to set rules for the future where both of you should take steps to communicate more effectively.


I agree with so much of this. How was I supposed to help him when he never talked about what was bothering him?
And, when it comes to him doing things for me, I did appreciate them. However, he never did anything I asked him to do or gave me what I needed. Was I just supposed to unhappily just take what he was giving me? I dont think so...


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## jmv2003

Seppuku said:


> I haven't read the whole thread, but I have one question - why is he mad? You said he was angry even before you threw him out. Why?


I didn't throw him out. After months of asking for a trial separation, we got into a fight and I told him to leave and give us a break. He is more angry now than he was when he lived at home. It is th only emotion he allows me to see and I dont understand why.


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## Seppuku

jmv2003 said:


> I didn't throw him out. After months of asking for a trial separation, we got into a fight and I told him to leave and give us a break. He is more angry now than he was when he lived at home. It is th only emotion he allows me to see and I dont understand why.


You feeling like you didn't throw him out doesn't mean he doesn't feel like that. I would.

I don't see how "I told him to leave" is not throwing him out, however you wish to justify it with a fight or months asking for a trial separation.

Honestly, if my wife ever asked me for a trial separation, I would probably hear "I have someone that I want to sleep with but I don't want to feel bad about it." So, months of that probably caused some resentment to build up for him.

You still haven't answered the question though - the anger got "worse" after you "told him to leave" but it was there before, no? WHY?


----------



## Mr. Nail

There is something here that is twigging me. It has to do with how you said this.



jmv2003 said:


> He says that he misses the family, I can tell that he wants to be here with the kids but he does nothing to better himself or better us. What I mean by that is that he does not go to therapy and does not put effort into making schedules. I do all of this.


You are expecting him to do something, but if he doesn't do it your way, it just doesn't count. Is that how you respond to his attempts?
I've been DONE with that before. 



jmv2003 said:


> The only emotion my husband ever shows now is anger. He was never an angry person and I really wish I knew what was going on with him.


I've been here too. When there is enough hurt, pain blocks out everything but anger.



jmv2003 said:


> I am open to any advice but please be kind. Thank you!


I'm not sure I followed this request too well. Sorry.


----------



## MarriedTex

jmv2003 said:


> I didn't throw him out. After months of asking for a trial separation, we got into a fight and I told him to leave and give us a break. He is more angry now than he was when he lived at home. It is th only emotion he allows me to see and I dont understand why.


I know why. You read my eight paragraph post and agreed with the portion where I said that "he never gave feedback, so how can you respond." You totally ignored the whole explanation of how he feels that way or demonstrate any empathy / acknowledgement for his plight / troubles. So let me make this easier for you: He sees you in the same way that somebody would look at an investment gone sour. He poured time and effort into a partner who did not recognize or appreciate what he has done over the years. He's mad at you because he sees you as self-involved and not interested in reciprocating the type of love he believes he has shown for you.

When your relationship troubles are diagnosed, you highlight the small segment that supports your mindset and ignore the rest. A small sample size, certainly, but one that suggests that your husband may have good reason for his anger.


----------



## SnowToArmPits

Hi jmv2003.

If he's very angry all the time, I'm not sure there's a magic potion, or strategy for you to employ. I would think he needs to have a good deal of introspection and/or counselling to try to get some enjoyment, peace, fulfillment back into his life.

If he is a Mr. Nice Guy as MarriedTex was asking you about, I've read Glover's book, and Glover lays out a process and exercises for a man to work at to re-balance from the anger and Mr. Nice Guy personality. Might be of benefit to you read the book yourself to understand this personality if you think it's a fit.

--

I don't know if this will help but here's some of the stuff I brooded about that made me an angry husband as I grew into middle age with my wife:

I grew very angry with my wife for gaining 30 lbs over her weight when we first married while I worked hard at being fit; 

over time I resented my wife for not having as much education as I have, or being as well read as me;

my wife was a terrible flirt, I hated her for it. 

... Making it worse, I was not good at discussing this with my wife, I just grew more sullen because I didn't see a way to make things better. I admit some of that is selfish, one-sided thinking on my part, but that's where I was at. A good deal of reading about healthy relationships by both of us, and better communication is helping to revive our marriage from its low point.


----------



## aine

jmv2003 said:


> Thank you so much for taking the time to answer! I could never help him or even shut down his suggestions because he never gave any. For months before we separated, he was like a robot. Sleep on the couch, go to work, come home, play with kids, do some housework, go to sleep and repeat. I BEGGED him to talk to me! And I would have listened! I would listen now. I am seeing a therapist who I love! My husband says he doesnt need therapy. We were going to go to a new couples therapist. He wanted to but says only to be better parents. I agree with that but he wants to go and not talk about us at all. Even my therapist says that cant happen. A therapist would need some background and our current situation. So, the conversation ended with him saying nevermind, maybe we should go separately. I told him I have someone(he knows this). He said maybe he will go alone. I never responded, just hoped that he would. This was a week ago.
> One more thing I would love your opinion on, if you dont mind! From the time we separated until now(about 2 months), when my husband doesnt have the kids, he impossible to reach. I understand he is going through a lot but he INSISTS he is done and fine, so why not answer your phone. I dont bug him by calling or texting a lot(ok, maybe the first week i did). A few times, I had to call him b/c he had the kids earlier that day and I needed to ask him a question. He will also not answer texts(how easy is that?). He has a personal and wok phone. I will call both, although I hate dealing with things through his work cell. He doesnt really live anywhere...he "moved" into his mothers house and stays at his sisters sometimes. He has a job that allows him to go in at all hours to fix things so he has been working A LOT! I think he sleeps in his car sometimes too. I used to tell him I would leave with the kids but I couldnt. I have no family to help me. He has a brother 2 streets away with a house and its just him and his son. Anyway, thought that info might help. Here is another reason I hate this. My husband was off today. He said he was not going in but he told me a few mins ago that he did. Our 7 year old tried to call him for 4 hours today...left voicemails too. He never answered or called back most likely b.c he thought it was me calling! What is this about? He always says its because he gets scared when he sees me calling. But honestly, I call him about once a week. I usually text and for the last 3 weeks,I haven called or texted about us!! What the heck is going on with him? Sorry if I rambled on...thank you!


I have only read this far, but how come noone has spotted this signs and suggested an OW, he is checking out, sleeping on the couch, unreachable on phone, etc all classic signs of an OW? Men rarely up and leave a marriage or relationship unless there is someone else to rely on.


----------



## aine

jmv2003 said:


> It seems that he is done because he blames me and wants to get through to me that we are done. if there were someone else, why wouldn't he tell me? He knows I would get mad but then I would be done with him for being with someone else. The thing that I regret the most is allowing myself to get so angry and say some things sometimes that weren't nice.


JMV, you cannot change him, take him at this word and give him what he wants. I think you have probably hurt him deeply over the years and he has checked out.

1. Do the 180 on him, no contact except for kids
2. Go see a lawyer and get your ducks in a row
3. Let all family and friends know what is happening
4. investigate, as I suspect there might be someone else, maybe an EA going on, he is acting far too guilty
5. start really working on you, therapy, gym, get on with your life

How old is your H, would it be a midlife crisis? You on the other hand have to be willing to lose this marriage.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

aine said:


> I have only read this far, but how come noone has spotted this signs and suggested an OW, he is checking out, sleeping on the couch, unreachable on phone, etc all classic signs of an OW? Men rarely up and leave a marriage or relationship unless there is someone else to rely on.


I had actually mentioned that earlier on in the thread too. From her response, it didn't seem likely there is someone else. (sometimes sleeps in his car, can always be found where he says he is, etc...) At this point though, who knows? Maybe something changed.


----------



## jmv2003

MarriedTex said:


> I know why. You read my eight paragraph post and agreed with the portion where I said that "he never gave feedback, so how can you respond." You totally ignored the whole explanation of how he feels that way or demonstrate any empathy / acknowledgement for his plight / troubles. So let me make this easier for you: He sees you in the same way that somebody would look at an investment gone sour. He poured time and effort into a partner who did not recognize or appreciate what he has done over the years. He's mad at you because he sees you as self-involved and not interested in reciprocating the type of love he believes he has shown for you.
> 
> When your relationship troubles are diagnosed, you highlight the small segment that supports your mindset and ignore the rest. A small sample size, certainly, but one that suggests that your husband may have good reason for his anger.


I did not ignore what you wrote. And when it comes to appreciating him, I did. When he would do things for me and the kids I would always thank him. He is a very hard worker and I would encourage him to take breaks and take less side work but he never listened. The extra money is nice but not if he is miserable. I still appreciate what he does for us financially and I let him know it.


----------



## jmv2003

SnowToArmPits said:


> Hi jmv2003.
> 
> If he's very angry all the time, I'm not sure there's a magic potion, or strategy for you to employ. I would think he needs to have a good deal of introspection and/or counselling to try to get some enjoyment, peace, fulfillment back into his life.
> 
> If he is a Mr. Nice Guy as MarriedTex was asking you about, I've read Glover's book, and Glover lays out a process and exercises for a man to work at to re-balance from the anger and Mr. Nice Guy personality. Might be of benefit to you read the book yourself to understand this personality if you think it's a fit.
> 
> --
> 
> I don't know if this will help but here's some of the stuff I brooded about that made me an angry husband as I grew into middle age with my wife:
> 
> I grew very angry with my wife for gaining 30 lbs over her weight when we first married while I worked hard at being fit;
> 
> over time I resented my wife for not having as much education as I have, or being as well read as me;
> 
> my wife was a terrible flirt, I hated her for it.
> 
> ... Making it worse, I was not good at discussing this with my wife, I just grew more sullen because I didn't see a way to make things better. I admit some of that is selfish, one-sided thinking on my part, but that's where I was at. A good deal of reading about healthy relationships by both of us, and better communication is helping to revive our marriage from its low point.


I think it is amazing that you can admit that and you are working on your marriage! I would given and would probably still give anything to have my husband be open(but kind) with me so I could make him happy.


----------



## jmv2003

aine said:


> JMV, you cannot change him, take him at this word and give him what he wants. I think you have probably hurt him deeply over the years and he has checked out.
> 
> 1. Do the 180 on him, no contact except for kids
> 2. Go see a lawyer and get your ducks in a row
> 3. Let all family and friends know what is happening
> 4. investigate, as I suspect there might be someone else, maybe an EA going on, he is acting far too guilty
> 5. start really working on you, therapy, gym, get on with your life
> 
> How old is your H, would it be a midlife crisis? You on the other hand have to be willing to lose this marriage.


I am 34, he is 30. I dont think there is anyone else. He does work a lot. I also suspect that he is drinking a lot more...I am doing better with the contact, only for the kids or house things like bills. I also have been working on myself and it has been really helping!!


----------



## jmv2003

*update* 

Things are not better. I have tried everything I can. I have followed my heart. I have taken advice from many of you, my therapist and friends but my husband is just not my husband anymore. He slowly became this new person and as much as I tried to stop it, he didn't. He doesn't seem very happy. People tell me all of the time that he looks so drained and defeated. I filed papers for court to establish child support and joint custody and he didn't care. He actually thought I went to file for divorce...and he still didnt care. I am a mess over this but I cannot change him. As much as I think that he has things going on(possibly depression), I cannot force him to do a thing. He says it took a long time to get here but just 4 months ago, we were sitting in a therapy session with him telling a therapist that he was 100% in this and ready to fight for our marriage. When I told him to leave after a huge fight(temporarily, not permanently), I think it hurt him. I know it hurt him. I think it hurt his heart and his pride but he has done nothing to come back. He tells me what I did wrong when we talk about it. He blames me whenever we talk. He also tells me he misses the family.I try to tell him that we could get that back! I tell him that we are married, we took vows and if we worked hard enough, there is a chance we could be happy again. He shuts me down right away. I am not innocent in all of this but I have tried. I have talked, cried, screamed. I have given him space, I have tried to hug him and nothing ever works. He doesn't want to be near me. I can no longer take the rejection and heartbreak. I will continue to go to therapy for me and my kids but I can no longer fight for him. I don't think he will ever change. I don't think he will ever try to change. I have also made the decision to cut communication. I think things would be slightly easier if it weren't the holiday season. 
I am still open to advice from all of you. If you have been through something similar, I would love to hear about it! Thank you everyone!


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Sorry things aren't better for you. So what does he tell you that he feels you did wrong? Is this new that he is taking about this?


----------



## jmv2003

3Xnocharm said:


> Sorry things aren't better for you. So what does he tell you that he feels you did wrong? Is this new that he is taking about this?


It's not really new. He has been telling me and other people that he left and is done b/c I yell at him and get so angry. We didn't start out this way. When we first started having issues I would always want to address them. He would not and would keep quiet and ignore things. As he ignored me and stopped giving me the attention that he used to, I got angry. Even when a therapist told me months before he left that I should back off to get results(which I did), I didn't get anywhere. He says he's not angry, just done but he is angry. I see it when we talk about the marriage. I have made the decision to not speak to him until we go to court n probably 6 to 8 weeks. I can't keep letting myself get hurt.


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

JMV - I have a stressful job & sometimes have a hard time keeping job stress out of the house. Your husband may feel he is in golden handcuffs. Too many bills means he HAS to keep working like a dog.

Another thing is you blaming him for not being there when you had a miscarriage. I am projecting here, but a miscarriage can be a hard blow for a husband as well. Could be it impacted him and he didn't have the coping skills to deal with his grief as well as yours.


----------



## jmv2003

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> JMV - I have a stressful job & sometimes have a hard time keeping job stress out of the house. Your husband may feel he is in golden handcuffs. Too many bills means he HAS to keep working like a dog.
> 
> Another thing is you blaming him for not being there when you had a miscarriage. I am projecting here, but a miscarriage can be a hard blow for a husband as well. Could be it impacted him and he didn't have the coping skills to deal with his grief as well as yours.


I understand the job part. I also understand that he was probably feeling things when I had the miscarriage but I always encouraged him to talk to me about worries, needs, wants etc. He never did and on top of it, he ignored all of mine.
He tells me his is done. He says he is not angry but I don't believe him(he gets angry when we talk about the things that have happened).
My questions are...why do I still care??? He tells me he is done! He doesn't care that I filed paperwork.
And, will he ever change? Will he ever wake up and see what he is losing?? He is still in the work mode routine. He just works and works. He tells me he misses the family but doesn't try to see the kids as much as he could because he keeps taking side jobs. I tell him we could try again at a happy family but he doesn't want to.


----------



## Lostinthought61

JMV, 

you mention in an earlier post that you are 34 and he is 30, now this is just a speculation on my part, but i wonder if over time the dynamic of the relationship changed, where he saw you less as an equal partner and more like a dominating mother figure, and began to shut down. Can you tell me what his relationship was with his mother? and also could you tell me if you know the relationship was between his father and mother? thank you


----------



## jmv2003

Xenote said:


> JMV,
> 
> you mention in an earlier post that you are 34 and he is 30, now this is just a speculation on my part, but i wonder if over time the dynamic of the relationship changed, where he saw you less as an equal partner and more like a dominating mother figure, and began to shut down. Can you tell me what his relationship was with his mother? and also could you tell me if you know the relationship was between his father and mother? thank you


It's funny you mention that. When we first got together, he told me about his parents and growing up with an unstable mother. Over the years, he told me he couldn't believe how his mom acted and how is dad tried to make things disappear. Let me explain...

My husband is the youngest of 3 children all 5 years apart. When he was about 10, his moms mother passed away. His mom did not take it well. She was depressed. She eventually developed an addiction to RX meds. She took so many that she would go outside and run down the street out of her mind. She would hide in the house and when my husband found her, she would say you will never see me again if you tell your dad where I am. When his dad eventually found his mom or got her back inside, he would bring her in the bedroom and wait for her to pass out. Then, they never spoke of it. His dad never talked to him or consoled him. My husband said he would cry and cry. Sometimes his mom would leave for a night or two and come back with gifts for my husband. His siblings were never around b/c they did not want to deal with her either. The issues were never addressed or talked about. I believe this damaged my husband but also made him not want to be like that. But now, he is! I am nothing like his mother yet I think he started to treat me like her in a way. When I would have issues(medical, emotional) he didnt know how to treat me. In the beginning he did, he would help me and comfort me but then it changed. He became his father and a little like his mother. I would call him out on this too. I told him that I am not her and I I want to discuss and fix our problems as they arise.
I told him this the other day b/c he keeps insisting that he work, work, work to have money for Christmas presents for the kids. While that is wonderful, I am trying to tell him that it's not going to fix all of our problems. Our 7 year old is a mess. He is up and down with emotions and I am they one dealing with it most of the time. I usually have the kids. When he has them, they are at grandmas house or he takes them out. How fun is that?! Presents for Christmas are nice but I'm having conversations with our 7 year old b/c he asks when Daddy is coming home or if he will be here for the holidays. My 2 year old asks questions too and wakes up crying at night saying "daddy bye bye". 
His parents are a big part of our lives. They are very helpful with the kids. His mom is there for me and doesn't know why my husband is acting like this although she does acknowledge that he turned into his father and that he went through a lot when he was younger. There is a difference though...she tells me that her husband(my fil) has been this way since they met as teenagers. My husband was not like this for the first 6 years of our relationship. AND, as soon as I noticed things were changing, I tried to work with him to make changes. He never did, just like he doesn't now. He just keeps working. I don't think he will ever leave him moms to get a place of his own or to come back to our home. He will just live how he has been living. He tells me he will give me whatever money I need or the kids need. He seems depressed but I can't make him do anything if he doesn't think there is a problem.


----------



## turnera

I've known some men like him. They don't really want to have to think about things, about needing to change course, about looking at new ways of doing things; he just wants it to all be ok. Without effort. Thus the issues with the therapists. Just fix it already!

And he wasn't given the tools growing up to know how to adjust course and find a solution - so he retreats. And is even more miserable because _that_ doesn't make him any happier, either. 

IMO, he's the kind of person who's going to have to just trudge through life miserable, until he becomes SO miserable he looks for a new way out and may be open to change. His depression won't magically cure itself. 

If he's really the one you want, I'd just carry on with life, keep the lines of communication open, and see if he ever reaches out for help.


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## Lostinthought61

JMV,

i am not a psychologist, but i need to ask a couple more question and a thought, the thing you have to remember, is that for some children, they become so imprinted by things that happen in their early years that no matter how much they repress it, it tends to come back later in life during some event not related but related on another level, even if he said he did not want to become his father, in periods when stress and anxiety is so prevalent, that imprint comes out and then at times it can take over, essentially becoming what you did not want to be i hope that makes sense...i suspect that is what happen to your husband. So let me ask you this, what happen 6 years ago, if he was fine up to that point, something happen that triggered this repressed feeling of closing off everyone.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

jmv2003 said:


> *It's not really new. He has been telling me and other people that he left and is done b/c I yell at him and get so angry. We didn't start out this way. When we first started having issues I would always want to address them. He would not and would keep quiet and ignore things. As he ignored me and stopped giving me the attention that he used to, I got angry. *Even when a therapist told me months before he left that I should back off to get results(which I did), I didn't get anywhere. He says he's not angry, just done but he is angry. I see it when we talk about the marriage. I have made the decision to not speak to him until we go to court n probably 6 to 8 weeks. I can't keep letting myself get hurt.


Well... is he RIGHT? I understand how frustrating it is when your partner will not share what is going on with them, and you were trying to get him to communicate. But, did you make a safe place for him to do so? Or, was he always "wrong" in how he was feeling when he WOULD share something? Men will shut down tight rather than deal with being berated, yelled at, and told they are wrong.


----------



## jb02157

You're the one who wanted to separate. Be careful for what you ask for.


----------



## jmv2003

3Xnocharm said:


> Well... is he RIGHT? I understand how frustrating it is when your partner will not share what is going on with them, and you were trying to get him to communicate. But, did you make a safe place for him to do so? Or, was he always "wrong" in how he was feeling when he WOULD share something? Men will shut down tight rather than deal with being berated, yelled at, and told they are wrong.


It was getting bad so I talked to my therapist about it and what I could do. The last 6 to 9 months before my husband left I took her advice and backed off. I would not get as angry, I let little things go and I stopped the yelling. I gave him a chance to come to me and talk about things but he never did...I wish he had=(


----------



## jmv2003

Xenote said:


> JMV,
> 
> i am not a psychologist, but i need to ask a couple more question and a thought, the thing you have to remember, is that for some children, they become so imprinted by things that happen in their early years that no matter how much they repress it, it tends to come back later in life during some event not related but related on another level, even if he said he did not want to become his father, in periods when stress and anxiety is so prevalent, that imprint comes out and then at times it can take over, essentially becoming what you did not want to be i hope that makes sense...i suspect that is what happen to your husband. So let me ask you this, what happen 6 years ago, if he was fine up to that point, something happen that triggered this repressed feeling of closing off everyone.


I think that the only thing that happened was life. We got married, had children etc. He is a hard worker and I don't think he thinks he is allowed to complain or ask for help. He never talked about his stresses, instead he held them in and bottled them up.


----------



## jmv2003

Here is a question for all of you...

If a man is not cheating(while you are married or separated), what is he doing? Or, what could he be doing? This is assuming there is weird behavior.


----------



## Lostinthought61

jmv2003 said:


> I think that the only thing that happened was life. We got married, had children etc. He is a hard worker and I don't think he thinks he is allowed to complain or ask for help. He never talked about his stresses, instead he held them in and bottled them up.



your probably right JVM, but i would put even money there was a trigger that set him off, something, a passing comment from someone perhaps, that is the funny thing about triggers they aren't always fireworks, most times they are a simple firecracker. Either way, he is becoming his father, perhaps that is the conversation you should be having with him. "remember when we were dating and you once told me you never want to be like your father? Are you sure your not him now?" from there do not expound, do not go further, you are only planting a seed, allow him to think about that, allow him to see if that is what he is doing. it may help or maybe the seed will fall on infertile grounds, either way you have nothing to lose. if he does have an AHA moment that is when you suggest therapy, he will need for himself at first then the both of you, because clearly it sounds like there is a communication break down. Good Luck.


----------



## jmv2003

Xenote said:


> your probably right JVM, but i would put even money there was a trigger that set him off, something, a passing comment from someone perhaps, that is the funny thing about triggers they aren't always fireworks, most times they are a simple firecracker. Either way, he is becoming his father, perhaps that is the conversation you should be having with him. "remember when we were dating and you once told me you never want to be like your father? Are you sure your not him now?" from there do not expound, do not go further, you are only planting a seed, allow him to think about that, allow him to see if that is what he is doing. it may help or maybe the seed will fall on infertile grounds, either way you have nothing to lose. if he does have an AHA moment that is when you suggest therapy, he will need for himself at first then the both of you, because clearly it sounds like there is a communication break down. Good Luck.


Well, unfortunately, we have already talked about this and he just accepts it(like everything else). He doesnt do anything for anything(good or bad). Right now, we are not talking. I made this decision. I also made a calendar for the kids schedule. Of course, he had no objections. He says whatever I want when it comes to things like that.


----------



## Lostinthought61

jmv2003 said:


> Well, unfortunately, we have already talked about this and he just accepts it(like everything else). He doesnt do anything for anything(good or bad). Right now, we are not talking. I made this decision. I also made a calendar for the kids schedule. Of course, he had no objections. He says whatever I want when it comes to things like that.



I'm sorry to hear that JVM.....this is obviously a journey where he has become a prisoner of his own thoughts.....this is why good parenting is not something you read about, it is something you constantly have to work at, and his parents screwed him up....the most important thing you can do at this point is to ensure that this kind of thinking stops with him, and not passed on to your children....you owe it too them to demonstrate what it means keep the lines of communications open.


----------



## jmv2003

Xenote said:


> I'm sorry to hear that JVM.....this is obviously a journey where he has become a prisoner of his own thoughts.....this is why good parenting is not something you read about, it is something you constantly have to work at, and his parents screwed him up....the most important thing you can do at this point is to ensure that this kind of thinking stops with him, and not passed on to your children....you owe it too them to demonstrate what it means keep the lines of communications open.


I literally had this conversation with my 16 year old today. I am so afraid that if my husband doesnt change, my 3 boys will grow up to be like him. I don't understand that even after all of that we have been through, he still doesnt step up. He wont acknowledge that something is going on with him, he blames me mostly for our marriage problems and he does nothing to make any of it better.


----------



## Lostinthought61

jmv2003 said:


> I literally had this conversation with my 16 year old today. I am so afraid that if my husband doesnt change, my 3 boys will grow up to be like him. I don't understand that even after all of that we have been through, he still doesnt step up. He wont acknowledge that something is going on with him, he blames me mostly for our marriage problems and he does nothing to make any of it better.


For now his crap is his crap....I suspect he is really mad at himself than you, but your the target for now because he is not willing to look inward yet or ever, i am not suggesting you were a perfect spouse, but none of us are, but we do the best we can....but can i suggest one last thing...you and boys need to get couseling, so that the boys understand that this is not normal, and all of you need to find a way to address this.


----------



## troubledinma

Emerging Buddhist said:


> I do appreciate your response...
> 
> I would recommend getting the 7 year old a phone that your 7 and 2 year old can use together, a so called "non-conflict" phone.
> 
> When he shares with you he misses them and the family, believe him. It's not confusing in the least from a side view at all, he misses them, but not the conflict with you, that's it in it's full simplicity.
> 
> I have yet to see any example of anger from him in your words, just avoidance, and I still do not know what had him break down in tears from your therapy... not sure why this hasn't been shared but I am sure there is a reason, we just don't know it.
> 
> If you can only talk at him, and not to him... this will continue. He needs a patient heart that listens.. offer to meet him for coffee or lunch and let him know you are there to do nothing but listen, and mean it, then do it.
> 
> You will be challenged, and that's ok... let him know up front your boundaries for yourself.
> 
> Yes... self-imposed boundaries.
> 
> You will offer:
> Do your best to listen.
> You will offer a signal if he is getting uncomfortable (raising a hand) and you will respect it.
> Honor his time with pleasantness.
> Agree to end the coffee/lunch quickly and respectfully if either of you feel the need.
> 
> You will not:
> Lecture him
> Interrupt or talk over him.
> Blame him.
> Guilt him.
> 
> Ask if you can hold his hand in the conversation and in the end, thank him for the time spent... again, and mean it because if you cannot mean it, don't do it.
> 
> This is simple kindness... you owe it to yourself to issue it for no one else but you.
> 
> He simply receives the benefit of it... a positive ripple in the relationship pond.
> 
> If all is not finished and his heart is open, make him an invite he can wrap his heart around.
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Our sorrows and wounds are healed only when we touch them with compassion.
> 
> -Buddha


Your posts are so helpful. Thank you. 

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk


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## troubledinma

I have similar issues with my wife. I used to be much happier than I am now. 5 years of courtship and 10 years of marriage had changed me. I finally got to the point where I could not stand the daily negativity, nitpicking, and being the infinite negative emotional vent for her etc. I scheduled a meeting with her and informed her that I needed to do most of the talking and she needed to stop talking and really listen. I realized that I was growing really resentful and actually was beginning to view her with contempt. I didn't want that. So I had to change it myself. It's not really much better, but my wife is finally backing off and trying listen to what I actually need. I think your husband hasn't gotten to where he can do that, so I really think it's a simple strategy for you at this point. He needs to come to you and you literally should not talk. No editorials. No talking about your feelings. No interjecting yourself or the kids. into it. You have one purpose. Only listen to him. Reflect on his words after and between meetings. It will take many, many attempts if it even works at all, but I think it is your only chance. If he views you with contempt, it's a mountain you need to climb. It really might not be worth it for either of you. He needs to realize he wants and can actually have a better life first. In your case, you'd need to hope you could still be part of that better life. 

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk


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## jmv2003

Good Guy said:


> My wife has these tendencies. When she said "let's talk" what she really means is she talks, and if I say anything it's seen as personally attacking her or trying to start an argument. She was forever doing stuff for me, such as organising a football game or inviting friends over, in order to "cheer me up", but she never asked if I even liked the friends or wanted to play football. If there was something I suggested, she made some excuse as to why she couldn't go. She managed the finances completely as she didn't want to "bother" me with the details. In the end we ended up with over $20K of credit card debt. Our sex life was pretty much non existent.
> 
> What I wanted was my own life to make my own decisions. She also did some "playful teasing" like if she didn't take care of me I would be lost or whatever - kind of like the stupid husbands you see on advertisments on TV.
> 
> At work I was respected, people listened when I talked and followed my opinions. I was a leader. I had control over most of my decisions. No surprise then I preferred being there.
> 
> One day I woke up and realised I'd be much happier without her. I got angry and told her how things were going to be. She seemed to see a marriage as one person being the boss, while I saw it as a partnership. I decided that if that was the case, the boss was going to be me - as I was better and fairer at it than she was - as she could never be in an equal relationship. Since I made that decision, things run much better, and everyone is happier, including her and especially the kids - two girls - who back me 100%. I have the final say over everything. If that ever changes, I am gone.
> 
> Ironically I am not the bossy or controlling type AT ALL - I was forced into this role. I don't control her, I ask her what she wants to do or she can tell me, and unless it's not feasible for financial or other reasons, she does it.



I dont really think I am like her. I always wanted to have my husband tell me what he wanted. He never did so I didnt know what to do. I would do small things like make his favorite dinner or bring him coffee when he had to work late but they were small...he made most every decision about finance. I was ok with this b/c he is better with money. I never asked for stuff we couldnt afford or went out and bought it without him knowing.
So, you like where things are for you now? It sounds controlling but you said she is happier? Thats good!


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## jmv2003

turnera said:


> I have to agree. I was empathizing with you at first, but the more you post, the more clear it becomes that you are not providing a safe environment. You are not really looking at your own actions; every time you talk about anything you might have done wrong, you immediately follow it up with 'but HE...' - that negates any acknowledgment of your own sins.
> 
> Do you see this?
> 
> You can't make him want to make you happy. But you CAN fix YOUR issues to the point that he then wants to please you.


I am the one going to therapy and I provide a safe environment. I will tell you how...I have made the decision to give him space. I do not call or text him. We email so that we have time to think about our responses before we reply. I am the one who created a schedule for the next 6 weeks that he has yet to follow. I am doing what I can. I am also concerned about my husbands drinking. It is very excessive. We talked about it in therapy but I know that until he wants help, there is nothing I can do. I am not lying when I say that we would sit in therapy(when we lived together) and he would agree to work on things the way the therapist suggested. He ended up doing none of those things. Is he a hard worker? Yes. Does he provide for us financially? Yes. The problem is, is that consumes him. He shuts of his feelings and doesnt care about being happy. I want him to be happy. I want him to be successful. Even our therapist said to him that he puts up walls to not feel pain. I am not blaming him. We are both at fault. However, somethings gotta give. He just goes day by day and hopes things will change w/o doing the work. Even if right it is to work on our relationships with the kids, he doesnt follow what the therapist says. It is very hard and confusing.


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## jmv2003

Kivlor said:


> Again. "I apologized for my part." "He should apoligize."
> 
> 
> You didn't apologize. You offered an "I'm sorry if you'll do what I want / if you'll be sorry"
> 
> And you wonder why he won't talk? Why he won't open up to you? It's you causing this. Always was. You've not created an atmosphere conducive to discussion. Even your apologies are hollow, insincere and accusatory.



Youre right. Youre good. I am mean and dont care about my husband. I screamed at him until he gave me what I wanted! So much that I see a therapist, make schedules for our children that he NEVER follows and created a thread asking for help in TAM. Thank you for calling me out and clearing up what has been happening and the fact that I am a jerk and my husband is the victim.


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## turnera

jmv2003 said:


> I am the one going to therapy and I provide a safe environment. I will tell you how...I have made the decision to give him space. I do not call or text him. We email so that we have time to think about our responses before we reply. I am the one who created a schedule for the next 6 weeks that he has yet to follow. I am doing what I can. I am also concerned about my husbands drinking. It is very excessive. We talked about it in therapy but I know that until he wants help, there is nothing I can do. I am not lying when I say that we would sit in therapy(when we lived together) and he would agree to work on things the way the therapist suggested. He ended up doing none of those things. Is he a hard worker? Yes. Does he provide for us financially? Yes. The problem is, is that consumes him. He shuts of his feelings and doesnt care about being happy. I want him to be happy. I want him to be successful. Even our therapist said to him that he puts up walls to not feel pain. I am not blaming him. We are both at fault. However, somethings gotta give. He just goes day by day and hopes things will change w/o doing the work. Even if right it is to work on our relationships with the kids, he doesnt follow what the therapist says. It is very hard and confusing.


How come every one of your posts is all.about.him? What HE is doing wrong? What HE needs to do? 

Why is it you can't just leave it alone and look at yourself?


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## turnera

jmv2003 said:


> Youre right. Youre good. I am mean and dont care about my husband. I screamed at him until he gave me what I wanted! So much that I see a therapist, make schedules for our children that he NEVER follows and created a thread asking for help in TAM. Thank you for calling me out and clearing up what has been happening and the fact that I am a jerk and my husband is the victim.


How's your sarcasm working for you, jmv? 

Do you even understand what we are all trying to tell you? That you CAN'T CHANGE HIM?

You SAY you understand that. And then in the same breath you tell us all over again what HE is doing wrong!

If you want your husband to stay your husband, YOU have to change. Period. There IS no coming back from this any other way. We acknowledge that you feel you've been shafted, and in many ways you have. BUT SO HAS HE.

So, since YOU are the one here seeking help, heed the advice. Stop looking at what you want him to do, and start looking at what will make YOU an attractive option.


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## jmv2003

turnera said:


> How come every one of your posts is all.about.him? What HE is doing wrong? What HE needs to do?
> 
> Why is it you can't just leave it alone and look at yourself?


 I do look at myself. I go to therapy to work on patience and not getting angry so easily, especially over the small stuff. I say him a lot b/c he says he wants schedules for the kids but doesnt follow them and then when I say something about it, he gets mad. I dont understand it. Also, since we separated, when he talks to mutual friends, he blames me. It is very hurtful to hear this. They tell me he blames me and says nothing about himself. Also, he offers this info to them, they do not ask. He also gets very angry easily. I have people asking me about it. I dont know what to say. I feel like when I try to move on, he says something to set us back. He has to remind me that he misses the family and the kids. I know this but he is the one who does NOT want to be together. I dont know why he says things like this. Its so easy to think that he is the victim but neither of us are. When I ask questions about why he didnt do this or didnt do that it doesnt mean that I am blaming everything on him. Im not going to list everything I do b/c I dont need help with that. I just need help understanding him, which I am starting too b/c I see now that he has a drinking problem. I always thought he did but now that a therapist has said something to him and he admits how much he drinks, a lot of his actions make sense. I relaize I cant fix that problem so I am going to let him handle that and I will continue to work on myself.


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## jmv2003

turnera said:


> How's your sarcasm working for you, jmv?
> 
> Do you even understand what we are all trying to tell you? That you CAN'T CHANGE HIM?
> 
> You SAY you understand that. And then in the same breath you tell us all over again what HE is doing wrong!
> 
> If you want your husband to stay your husband, YOU have to change. Period. There IS no coming back from this any other way. We acknowledge that you feel you've been shafted, and in many ways you have. BUT SO HAS HE.
> 
> So, since YOU are the one here seeking help, heed the advice. Stop looking at what you want him to do, and start looking at what will make YOU an attractive option.


The sarcasm is just for those who are COMPLETELY siding with him. I dont need anyone siding with me. I ask for advice, not bullying. I have been trying to keep my children out of all of this but since you all see him as a victim, Ill just throw in that he does not answer when my kids call, does not usually call back, doesnt follow the schedule I made(b/c he would never sit down and write one out with me), he makes changes last minute on days he should have the kids and he drinks in front of my kids. So yea, he has his faults. And the fact that, even after therapy, he continues to avoid and makes excuses, I think he has a problem. Again, I do too. I have never said that I dont. Maybe if I was as important as his vodka is to him, he would have opened up or spent more time with me.


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## turnera

You think you're being bullied here? That's very telling.


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## jmv2003

There is no reason to be mean or blame when someone is asking for advice or help. This post has been up for a while so you have to understand that a lot has changed since I first posted. It has come out in therapy that my husband has a problem with alcohol. While I cant help him, I still care. From day one, I have said that I have issues with anger. I am getting them under control. I have also said that I am having issues because I married an man who changed into someone completely different. I started out talking, asking what I could do to make him happier. He always said nothing. I noticed he wasnt as happy. I asked him to tell me about his stresses, like work. He would tell me a little about work but said there was nothing I could do. I felt hopeless. When I tried to make changes and do things, he declined or ignored. He became insensitive and distant from not only me but the kids. I became concerned so we went to therapy, where he still did not open up BUT would not disuss separation when I brought it up. I used to nicely say that if he wasnt willing to make changes(and he admits he never did), he needed to leave. He ignored the conversation and continued to work, drink, sleep and repeat. I am sorry if some of you dont understand or have been hurt yourself and want to take it out on me but I tried. I am still trying even though he tells me he is never going to change and even though he drinks vodka almost every day of the week. Right now, I am giving him the distance I think he needs. I have said this in a past post. I also went to court to get a permanent schedule in order b/c although he says hes done, he wants a divorce, he wants a schedule, he wants to see the kids as much as possible...he does not follow through with taking the right step to make these things happen. From our therapist's mouth "he puts up walls so he doesnt have to feel anything" and "she is emotional about everything that is going on and it is perfectly normal". She sees both sides. She also sees that my husband has a drinking problem which allows him to not have too many feelings. She also says he needs to have more compassion for me. Maybe some of you should as well. I dont need pity, just advice. I also dont need reasons to blame or hate my husband, I just want to make things better even if it means we are never together again.


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## jmv2003

turnera said:


> You think you're being bullied here? That's very telling.


I dont necessarily feel bullied, just that I am getting information that does nothing to help. It is trying to make me look at myself but I already do that. I also take responsibility for all of my actions. I dont know why people say I do not.


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## Lostinthought61

People....constructive criticism is one thing but even i can see that some of you are bordering on bullying, any one that has the courage to ask for help from this board, ought not be persecuted, or lambasted. None of us are perfect fathers, mothers, husbands and wives, none of us have a manual for perfection....the OP has already admitted she made mistakes and working on fixing those mistakes, she is seeking help, she is seeking answers, we ought it to her to provide constructive advice to help the cause, not beat the soul.


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## turnera

jmv2003 said:


> The sarcasm is just for those who are COMPLETELY siding with him. I dont need anyone siding with me. I ask for advice, not bullying. I have been trying to keep my children out of all of this but since you all see him as a victim, Ill just throw in that he does not answer when my kids call, does not usually call back, doesnt follow the schedule I made(b/c he would never sit down and write one out with me), he makes changes last minute on days he should have the kids and he drinks in front of my kids. So yea, he has his faults. And the fact that, even after therapy, he continues to avoid and makes excuses, I think he has a problem. Again, I do too. I have never said that I dont. Maybe if I was as important as his vodka is to him, he would have opened up or spent more time with me.


And....yet another post full of nothing but trashing your husband.

I'll tell you something, jmv. When I first found forums, it was because someone sent me to it, because I was nonstop griping about my husband. They all got tired of hearing me trash him. Said a forum might help me. So I went to one, started a thread, and proceeded to do the exact same thing you're doing. And got the exact same response. How dare they?! Don't they know I'm in pain? Can't they see what a bad person he is?

And all they kept saying to me was, "What are YOU doing in this marriage, T?" I was SO mad at them. I left a couple times cos I sure as hell didn't want to hear that this had anything to do with me. I wanted them to fix HIM! 

All in all, it took me about two years of this back and forth, and the people never wavering - look at yourself, T - until I was finally so distraught and so exhausted, that I said 'Fine! Ok! I'll read the damn book! (His Needs Her Needs)" And as soon as I read that book, it all clicked. I HAD been a crappy wife. I had given him no reason to be a better husband. So I decided to clean up MY side no matter WHAT he was doing. Like they'd been telling me all long. Meet his needs.

So I started doing what I knew would make him happy. Meet his needs. And he soaked it up like a sponge - he was THAT thirsty for affection and attention from me. And as soon as I started being a better wife, he started being a better husband.

Cos it really does work. You just have to give up needing to be right. Hopefully it won't take you two years like it did me. I don't think your marriage will survive that wrong.


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## farsidejunky

jmv2003 said:


> I do look at myself. I go to therapy to work on patience and not getting angry so easily, especially over the small stuff. I say him a lot b/c he says he wants schedules for the kids but doesnt follow them and then when I say something about it, he gets mad. I dont understand it. Also, since we separated, when he talks to mutual friends, he blames me. It is very hurtful to hear this. They tell me he blames me and says nothing about himself. Also, he offers this info to them, they do not ask. He also gets very angry easily. I have people asking me about it. I dont know what to say. I feel like when I try to move on, he says something to set us back. He has to remind me that he misses the family and the kids. I know this but he is the one who does NOT want to be together. I dont know why he says things like this. Its so easy to think that he is the victim but neither of us are. When I ask questions about why he didnt do this or didnt do that it doesnt mean that I am blaming everything on him. Im not going to list everything I do b/c I dont need help with that. I just need help understanding him, which I am starting too b/c I see now that he has a drinking problem. I always thought he did but now that a therapist has said something to him and he admits how much he drinks, a lot of his actions make sense. I relaize I cant fix that problem so I am going to let him handle that and I will continue to work on myself.


Can you accept responsibility for poor choices without justification?


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## farsidejunky

jmv2003 said:


> The sarcasm is just for those who are COMPLETELY siding with him. I dont need anyone siding with me. I ask for advice, not bullying. I have been trying to keep my children out of all of this but since you all see him as a victim, Ill just throw in that he does not answer when my kids call, does not usually call back, doesnt follow the schedule I made(b/c he would never sit down and write one out with me), he makes changes last minute on days he should have the kids and he drinks in front of my kids. So yea, he has his faults. And the fact that, even after therapy, he continues to avoid and makes excuses, I think he has a problem. Again, I do too. I have never said that I dont. Maybe if I was as important as his vodka is to him, he would have opened up or spent more time with me.


The fact that you see it as "sides" is exactly why you are losing/have lost your husband.

Digging your war trenches deeper is not answer.


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## Kivlor

jmv2003 said:


> Youre right. Youre good. I am mean and dont care about my husband. I screamed at him until he gave me what I wanted! So much that I see a therapist, make schedules for our children that he NEVER follows and created a thread asking for help in TAM. Thank you for calling me out and clearing up what has been happening and the fact that I am a jerk and my husband is the victim.


JMV, I haven't accused you of screaming at your H. FWIW, before I began posting in this thread I had 2 people (1 ~70ish man, 1 24yo girl) read it and give me their opinion--something I don't often do--to make sure I wasn't taking things out of context. I didn't discuss it with them until they had told me their thoughts, and they had the same concerns that I have expressed. Both were concerned that you had created an ambush with the therapists, and both expressed concerns that you were using the therapist to get your way, ignoring the things you don't like from them, and even trying to get them to go along with what you want. It is obvious you have a strong personality. I feel confident that my responses are accurate _for the information you have provided_. I'm sure there are a lot of things you have left out, it's not like this is a biography.

Keep in mind that I can't interact with your H, so it is an assumption that I am / would be siding with him. I can't comment on your H beyond what you provide me with. I can't ask him difficult questions, and try to get him to look at it from your perspective. I can't point out what he's doing wrong, because as of yet, I don't know what he's doing wrong. (aside from apparently not telling you what you want to hear)

What I can do is interact with you. I can try to assess you. I can ask difficult questions of you, and try to help you come to understand some of the things I think you are missing. I can try to help you to change yourself. 
@turnera is right. You can't force your H to change. What you can do is change YOU, and so be the kind of person he's willing to change himself for. I think if you want to save your M, that's your best avenue. If you don't want to save your M, then it is best to start discussing what _you_ want.


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## Kivlor

jmv2003 said:


> I do look at myself. I go to therapy to work on patience and not getting angry so easily, especially over the small stuff. I say him a lot b/c he says he wants schedules for the kids but doesnt follow them and then when I say something about it, he gets mad. I dont understand it. Also, since we separated, when he talks to mutual friends, he blames me. It is very hurtful to hear this. They tell me he blames me and says nothing about himself. Also, he offers this info to them, they do not ask. He also gets very angry easily. I have people asking me about it. I dont know what to say. I feel like when I try to move on, he says something to set us back. He has to remind me that he misses the family and the kids. I know this but he is the one who does NOT want to be together. I dont know why he says things like this. Its so easy to think that he is the victim but neither of us are. When I ask questions about why he didnt do this or didnt do that it doesnt mean that I am blaming everything on him. Im not going to list everything I do b/c I dont need help with that. I just need help understanding him, which I am starting too b/c I see now that he has a drinking problem. I always thought he did but now that a therapist has said something to him and he admits how much he drinks, a lot of his actions make sense. I relaize I cant fix that problem so I am going to let him handle that and I will continue to work on myself.


So... when he talks to other people he doesn't say it's his fault, the way he does with you? Can you give us some examples of how he blames you? Of what he blames you for?

Of course he misses his family. What was the one thing he said made him happy, when he was asked? His kids. Why would it surprise you that he misses them?


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## 3Xnocharm

I think it surprises her because from what she describes, he makes no effort when it comes to his kids. He claims to miss them but isn't calling them, isn't spending time with them, hasn't made a home with a space for them...etc etc. His actions are for sure not matching his words.


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## Manchester

jmv2003 said:


> When I ask questions about why he didnt do this or didnt do that it doesnt mean that I am blaming everything on him.


It means you're blaming him for the things you're asking him about that he didn't do.

Look, you can keep blameshifting all you want. 

If your goal is to "win him back" you're failing miserably.



Nucking Futs said:


> Divorce him, but be fair when you do.


Be fair. That's a good one. 

She'll go after his nuts if she can.


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## anchorwatch

@jmv2003, why do you still want to be married to him?


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## turnera

jmv2003 said:


> I dont necessarily feel bullied, just that I am getting information that does nothing to help. It is trying to make me look at myself but I already do that. I also take responsibility for all of my actions. I dont know why people say I do not.


If someone says "I'm sorry I hit you, but you..." - do you see how that makes the apology that person gives not real?

You say you take responsibility and in the same breath come back with what he's doing wrong. 

And then we - again - say you can't make him change, you can only change yourself and THUS hopefully he will decide to change. 

But you aren't hearing that.


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## jimrich

Rather than read the whole thread, I'll just start here....


jmv2003 said:


> I have been with my husband for 13 years(married 8). We have 3 children.


My first reaction is THINK OF YOUR KIDS! In my experience, as the survivor of two very unhappy parents, the kids always get hurt the most by unhappy parents!



> I am very outspoken, he is not. He does not share his feelings AT ALL! He didnt start out this way...it just got worse as we got older.


I entered therapy and 12 step support groups which taught me how to examine and then talk about my feelings and "reality" plus I learned how to make a relationship work rather than "get worse" as we got older. This did not help my 1st marriage, which failed, but it made my 2nd marriage work very well.
As a man, I understand that us men are rarely taught how to talk about our feelings so we clam up rather than appear stupid or illiterate regarding our thoughts and feelings.



> The last year has been bad. We went through different therapists but none of them were too helpful.


IMO, many if not most therapists are miserably unqualified to help anyone because many therapists have unresolved, emotional issues of their own. Did your therapists ever help both of you to become loving, respectful FRIENDS??? The thing I see in your story is that you were not and perhaps never were FRIENDS. When folks do not KNOW HOW to make a relationship work and it slowly or quickly DIES, they have no idea how to bring the love and respect back into the marriage due to a profound lack of knowledge about relationships and them selves. It's probably too late here but I'd google: Relationship Skills and learn as much as possible to spare the kids from any further damages in this failing marriage.



> Everyone around us is confused about how he is acting.


I'd be interested in his childhood to see how and whey he is so closed up and defensive.


> we had to see each other because of kids activities.


All of this is very harmful to your kids!



> What do you think is going on with him? Why is he so quick to divorce or why does he want to hurt me? I would love to hear from men about this!


I'd say that he is struggling with early childhood trauma, pain and emotional damages and is trying to hurt you instead of those who truly deserve his anger - most likely his parents! This is not simply a "mans" issue! It is an issue of dysfunctional parenting in which the children are mentally damaged and then go on to behave as your husband seems to be doing.



> Stories, advice, anything! Please, no mean comments. Thank you!


If I address your story with HONESTY, you will most likely see it as "mean comments", but I see both of you caught in a situation of lacking the skills and knowledge to make your relationship work simply by using adequate communications coming mostly from FRIENDSHIP and LOVE. You both need some TRAINING in how to make a relationship work. You both need to LEARN HOW to "talk" in effective and productive ways so that meaningful SOLUTIONS are found. Most folks never learned how to TALK effectively at home and then get into relationships where bad or no communications ruin everything. This is simply about acquiring and USING a few, effective Relationship Skills so google it or go find some relationship books and get busy LEARNING HOW FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR CHILDREN!!!!


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## jimrich

jmv2003 said:


> I am open and honest about what I need and want. When I noticed he was not showing me as much love and attention, I would say something.


But did you say something in a productive and effective way or were you ineffective?



> His parents had a rough relationship when he was younger. His mother(who is not like me) had issues, while his dad would just cover them up and act like nothing happened.


Well, there's a few obvious clues about why he is the way he is. Now how was your childhood?



> Everyone says how angry he seems all the time.


That is the dire consequences of a bad childhood when the victim has never had any help to get over it.


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## jimrich

jmv2003 said:


> He would just never open up. We would talk or figh and you could see he had feelings and things to say, he just wouldn't do it!


IMO, most folks, including so-called therapists/counselors do not know how to get a closed/defended person, such as your husband, to open up and share their "inner" stuff. It takes a little learning, study and PRACTICE to get through to a defended person which might mean studying some psychological principles but, generally, showing deep, honest EMPATHY will open up some locked and defended individuals. The wife approaching such a defended/locked husband needs to have very solid self respect and self esteem to offer the defended one some kind of trust, love and support or the locked one will simply stay closed up behind their safe, silent wall and very few folks have that kind of self respect and dignity when facing a locked up, defensive partner. Some counseling or therapy for your self might help you learn how to get through to your husband.


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## jimrich

jmv2003 said:


> I asked him what would make him happier, for himself and for us...he said he didnt know. He says idk a lot.


Folks who say that are really saying, *"I don't want to know."* It's a defense! They want you to pursue them so they can feel wanted, needed and loved which is why they play this ALOOF game of "I don't know" to get attention and matter. He probably began using this tactic as a small child to get his parents attention and it WORKED back then. :surprise:


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## jimrich

jmv2003 said:


> The therapists told him that he needs to be more open. One time in therapy, my husband cried and he turned away from me. She told him to look at me and share his feelings! He wouldnt...


But did this therapist give him (or you) and instructions or teaching for HOW TO do any of that? It's not enough to tell someone to just "do such and such" - sometimes it takes detailed instructions and teaching of the SKILLS involved. I had to read a lot of books to "get" HOW to be: honest, affectionate, verbal, respectful, kind, empathetic, loyal, faithful, reliable, etc. with my 2nd wife! I studied and studied to learn and use a few very simple yet powerful relationship skills and kept on studying them way into our 26 years of marriage before my 2nd wife passed away!


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## jimrich

jmv2003 said:


> He loved me when we were in therapy... We had true love, we just got lost somewhere. I always and still do want him to be happy.


For me, this is the tragedy of relationship ignorance where couples simply do now KNOW HOW to keep the love, respect and commitments that they started with and the union simply falls apart (damaging their kids along the way) due to little or no useful relationship knowledge or understanding. This has happened to many partners in my late wife's family and to every couple in my own family. You often speak of your therapist but I see no evidence of these therapists helping either of you in any significant way! Maybe you need to find another way to LEARN HOW to make things work.


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## jimrich

jmv2003 said:


> Ive definitely thought that he is punishing/hurting me...but he would never leave his children. They are what he lives for.


...and I'm pretty sure that this is damaging the kids.


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## jimrich

jmv2003 said:


> What the heck is going on with him?


I would have to get a real close look at his childhood and his parents to understand why he is acting like a disturbed, angry child here. I suppose you know more about his family background than we will ever know so I'd look into his relationship with his mother to see how that applies to you and him now.


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## jimrich

jmv2003 said:


> I also believe that he is doing a lot of this to hurt me. Does this make sense?


It makes sense when you see that he is using you as a SCAPE GOAT! His anger most likely belongs to his parents, the mother, and he doesn't have the courage or brains to send it to them so he sends his angry energies to an easier and safer target - you. He seems filled with bottled up, repressed pain, anger and HUMILIATIONS that came from his parents and he dumps that onto you (or whoever) rather than onto those who deserve his feelings - usually one's parents!
I punished everyone I was ever close to for many years until therapy helped me face the ugly fact that my anger and humiliation needed to be sent back to those who hurt and damaged me in the beginning - MY STUPID PARENTS! But not innocent bystanders who I saw as safer and easier targets because I was too terrified of my own parents to let them have it. In therapy, I finally let my parents have it - with both barrels!!! I found enormous emotional relief by putting my pain back where it belonged and not all over innocent bystanders such as my friends, girl friends, wives, co-workers, etc.


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## jimrich

jmv2003 said:


> It's funny you mention that. When we first got together, he told me about his parents and growing up with an unstable mother. Over the years, he told me he couldn't believe how his mom acted and how is dad tried to make things disappear. Let me explain...
> 
> My husband is the youngest of 3 children all 5 years apart. When he was about 10, his moms mother passed away. His mom did not take it well. She was depressed. She eventually developed an addiction to RX meds. She took so many that she would go outside and run down the street out of her mind. She would hide in the house and when my husband found her, she would say you will never see me again if you tell your dad where I am. When his dad eventually found his mom or got her back inside, he would bring her in the bedroom and wait for her to pass out. Then, they never spoke of it. His dad never talked to him or consoled him. My husband said he would cry and cry. Sometimes his mom would leave for a night or two and come back with gifts for my husband. His siblings were never around b/c they did not want to deal with her either. The issues were never addressed or talked about. I believe this damaged my husband but also made him not want to be like that. But now, he is! I am nothing like his mother yet I think he started to treat me like her in a way. When I would have issues(medical, emotional) he didnt know how to treat me. In the beginning he did, he would help me and comfort me but then it changed. He became his father and a little like his mother. I would call him out on this too. I told him that I am not her and I I want to discuss and fix our problems as they arise.
> I told him this the other day b/c he keeps insisting that he work, work, work to have money for Christmas presents for the kids. While that is wonderful, I am trying to tell him that it's not going to fix all of our problems. Our 7 year old is a mess. He is up and down with emotions and I am they one dealing with it most of the time. I usually have the kids. When he has them, they are at grandmas house or he takes them out. How fun is that?! Presents for Christmas are nice but I'm having conversations with our 7 year old b/c he asks when Daddy is coming home or if he will be here for the holidays. My 2 year old asks questions too and wakes up crying at night saying "daddy bye bye".
> His parents are a big part of our lives. They are very helpful with the kids. His mom is there for me and doesn't know why my husband is acting like this although she does acknowledge that he turned into his father and that he went through a lot when he was younger. There is a difference though...she tells me that her husband(my fil) has been this way since they met as teenagers. My husband was not like this for the first 6 years of our relationship. AND, as soon as I noticed things were changing, I tried to work with him to make changes. He never did, just like he doesn't now. He just keeps working. I don't think he will ever leave him moms to get a place of his own or to come back to our home. He will just live how he has been living. He tells me he will give me whatever money I need or the kids need. He seems depressed but I can't make him do anything if he doesn't think there is a problem.


OK, this pretty much explains your husband, now, what about you and your past? What from your past is making you some kind of a victim here? You have told us a lot about him and very little about your self. I am not a therapist nor a counselor but I did do a lot of work on my own mind and emotions so, much of what has been written makes sense to me. I see that the Solution is still off in the distance for you. As for me, the moment I realized that my 1st wife and I were not going to make it, I LEFT HER! Fortunately, there were no kids to damage but I sure would not have stayed with her and put our kids through that horror once therapy showed me what a marriage should and could be!


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## jimrich

jmv2003 said:


> Do I move on or keep fighting? Im thinking move one...what would you do? Thank you all so much!!


I'd move on and so I did! Has your therapist ever suggested that you might need to stop being a victim and begin living like a winner? You need to set a heroic and noble example for your kids to admire and look up to so they DO NOT become like their dad and his dad, etc. Your entire threat reads like one long, endless victim story. Is your husband always going to have this much control of you??????


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## vasectomy2016

jmv2003 said:


> I wouldn't call it throwing him out by telling him to leave and give us a break. If he would have out his foot down and said no, he could have stayed. He needs to man up and open his mouth.


as a man, in his shoes, I would have been saying in my mind.. thank GOD, I'm out of here! You seem calm on here telling us, but how are WE to know what you're like in the moment? what you perceive as trying to illicit a response from him, could be labeled as complaining, nagging. No man in his right mind would stay around with that. believe me.

I had a wife like that once and she's now an EX for a reason.

move on, he's gone!


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## SeattleWill

jmv2003 said:


> So, you think I should have just stayed in an unhappy marriage with a man who did nothing to make any of us happy? And now, I should just be ok with how he is acting? It's ok for him to hurt me, still not talk about things and even sometimes be mean to me??


You acted like you were in charge for years. You threw your husband out of your home. You ended your marriage. Deal with it and move on. This is not your husband’s problem.


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## SeattleWill

jmv2003 said:


> There is no reason to be mean or blame when someone is asking for advice or help. This post has been up for a while so you have to understand that a lot has changed since I first posted. It has come out in therapy that my husband has a problem with alcohol. While I cant help him, I still care. From day one, I have said that I have issues with anger. I am getting them under control. I have also said that I am having issues because I married an man who changed into someone completely different. I started out talking, asking what I could do to make him happier. He always said nothing. I noticed he wasnt as happy. I asked him to tell me about his stresses, like work. He would tell me a little about work but said there was nothing I could do. I felt hopeless. When I tried to make changes and do things, he declined or ignored. He became insensitive and distant from not only me but the kids. I became concerned so we went to therapy, where he still did not open up BUT would not disuss separation when I brought it up. I used to nicely say that if he wasnt willing to make changes(and he admits he never did), he needed to leave. He ignored the conversation and continued to work, drink, sleep and repeat. I am sorry if some of you dont understand or have been hurt yourself and want to take it out on me but I tried. I am still trying even though he tells me he is never going to change and even though he drinks vodka almost every day of the week. Right now, I am giving him the distance I think he needs. I have said this in a past post. I also went to court to get a permanent schedule in order b/c although he says hes done, he wants a divorce, he wants a schedule, he wants to see the kids as much as possible...he does not follow through with taking the right step to make these things happen. From our therapist's mouth "he puts up walls so he doesnt have to feel anything" and "she is emotional about everything that is going on and it is perfectly normal". She sees both sides. She also sees that my husband has a drinking problem which allows him to not have too many feelings. She also says he needs to have more compassion for me. Maybe some of you should as well. I dont need pity, just advice. I also dont need reasons to blame or hate my husband, I just want to make things better even if it means we are never together again.


You bullied him for years. You threw him out of your house. You took him to court to get your way in child visitation. Why would he even consider coming back to you?


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## EleGirl

This is a zombie thread. Thread closed.


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