# Is this abuse?



## crazycat25

My husband of 10 years is a good dad. However he has a temper. It's infrequent but it's there. I demanded we go to therapy about 6 months ago because he said that our 4 year old accidentally stepped on his groin (while husband was stretching his leg) and that caused him to "accidentally kick him". My son was hurt. My husband and his therapist said this was an accident and easily explainable. Well since then I've kept a close eye. We have been to the "scream free parenting" seminars but he still screams. 

Yesterday our son wasn't picking up his toys as he was told. My husband started screaming loudly. My son ran to me crying.. Scared. I asked him to listen to his father. He was so upset he just started wailing due to the loud screaming. I asked my husband to calm down. My husband lowered his voice. But then (child still crying) my husband grabbed his arm and started yelling and a very agressive manner "do it! Do it! Do it!" right in our son's face. I intervened. I told my husband screaming wasn't working and reminded him of the conference. He said "good point" and then got it under control. 

It's been bothering me because I wonder what would have happened if I wasn't there. Someone on the relationship thread called this abuse. Is it? Am I standing by and allowing too much? 

What advice would you give? Thanks.
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## flippymendoza

Sounds like he needs to understand that a 4 year old is little more than a baby. Yes they may be able to talk and potty on their own, but they are FAR from being an adult who can control themselves and their actions. If a child learns to do things because they're being screamed at, they will always have to be screamed at before they will do anything. Made this mistake with my oldest. This is emotionally damaging to all children, hell, its even damaging to adults. I get very upset and want to cry myself if someone screams at me. With my 2nd child, i tell her or ask her to do things in a respectful and loving manner. I want her to know her mommy loves her. Children are so emotionally vulnerable, and they need constant love and support, and also approval, to develop self esteem, and to learn how to cope with situations later in life. Think about how much children repeat things, they repeat everything they hear and copy actions they see. In short, yes what he is doing is emotionally abusive and damaging to your child. Try anger management classes.
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## Mom6547

flippymendoza said:


> Sounds like he needs to understand that a 4 year old is little more than a baby.


This is very, very much NOT true. A four year old is a capable little person. THAT is why OP's husband needs to get a handle on effective discipline.


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## Mom6547

Your husband is acting in a severely damaging way toward your child. He needs to get a hold of his anger. That a 4yo can cause him to lose control in this way is very alarming.


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## crazycat25

Well knowing that I've seen him snap before... Just worries me. He is DAILY getting stepped on.. Stubbing his toe .. Very accident prone. He reported this to the therapist and the therapist said that he needs to do a better job of containing our kids and not allowing them to walk on him while he's laying down or something. He is just ASKING for an accident. These things don't happen to me and it can't be a coincidence. 

I just don't know how to handle it because he had his therapist thinking I was over reacting and he was soon out of therapy... I'm worried.... And this is not our only issue. 

The thing is.. He seems so normal. And most of the time he is just fine with the kids. But I see these things and I worry. He says he does NOT need anger management classes. Basically refused to go. 

If it was a spanking that was planned.. It would be easier to discuss. This is a snap reaction... It's his temper that I hear and see. 



Mom6547 said:


> Your husband is acting in a severely damaging way toward your child. He needs to get a hold of his anger. That a 4yo can cause him to lose control in this way is very alarming.


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## AbsolutelyFree

Abuse? I don't know.

But certainly an example of a parent not being in control of himself of the situation.


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## Freak On a Leash

Your husband needs help seriously. He's going to turn that poor boy into a nervous wreck. Is it abuse? I don't think it's INTENTIONAL but it's certainly ABUSIVE.

I grew up in a house filled with strife, anger and yelling. It killed my self esteem but worse, it showed me that it was "normal behavior" and taught me how to deal with life situations in this manner. You don't want that to happen with your son. 

As a result I grew up with bad habits and yelling was my first, not my last, resort. I also grew up angry and with horrid self esteem problems that took years to overcome. 

I used to yell a lot more at my kids and I regret it to this day, especially with my son. It took years of work and therapy and I have come a long way. I can't say I never yell. When I get stressed I get angry more quickly and I will yell but I am a LOT better but it didn't happen overnight and it didn't get better by itself. 

I would say your husband needs therapy, anger management and perhaps even to see a medical doctor and some medication. A combination of all three seems to be in order. His problem may be that he CAN'T stop his immediate angry response to certain situations because it's akin to a bullet being shot out of a gun..it happens too quickly for him to stop it and it builds and builds to a point where he can't pull back and reduce his anger without your intervention or when it's too late. The proper medication will help reduce this "trigger" response and your husband will then get the "breathing room" he needs to start to think things through before he gets out of control. 

Your son shouldn't have to live with this and it WILL affect him negatively. Trust me on that. Your husband is a grown man and should be looking out for his son's best interest but HE is acting like a child! So now YOU have to stand up and be the parent and adult here and protect your son. It's YOUR responsibility to look out for your child and your HUSBAND'S responsibility to stop denying his problem and take steps to fix things. You need to make it clear that there will be dire consequences if he doesn't come to this realization and take the appropriate action needed.


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## crazycat25

I'm sorry to hear what you went through! It sounds like you have done the homework ...as they say.. And come out much stronger because of it. The problem with my husband is that he won't get that help. I tried talking to him again last night. He was very receptive and said he's told our son he's sorry for yelling and thanked me for the reminder about screaming not being the answer. 

But I still worry. Especially after what you mentioned. My son asked me yesterday out of the blue... Why is daddy so mean to me? The other thing I will ask here... If your spouse or child accidentally stepped on your foot or dropped something on your toe... Would your immediate action be to push them back aggressively or kick them? My husband has done this... And as you mentioned in your post.. It appeared to be an unconscious reaction to pain. But he hurt me... By pushing me backwards after I accidentally put part of a chair on his toe. Of course it hurt him... And I figured it was a reflex to pain but now I'm starting to question everything. I know I do NOT act that way when an accident happens. But maybe men are different?

Thanks again. 

UOTE=Freak On a Leash;312632]Your husband needs help seriously. He's going to turn that poor boy into a nervous wreck. Is it abuse? I don't think it's INTENTIONAL but it's certainly ABUSIVE.

I grew up in a house filled with strife, anger and yelling. It killed my self esteem but worse, it showed me that it was "normal behavior" and taught me how to deal with life situations in this manner. You don't want that to happen with your son. 

As a result I grew up with bad habits and yelling was my first, not my last, resort. I also grew up angry and with horrid self esteem problems that took years to overcome. 

I used to yell a lot more at my kids and I regret it to this day, especially with my son. It took years of work and therapy and I have come a long way. I can't say I never yell. When I get stressed I get angry more quickly and I will yell but I am a LOT better but it didn't happen overnight and it didn't get better by itself. 

I would say your husband needs therapy, anger management and perhaps even to see a medical doctor and some medication. A combination of all three seems to be in order. His problem may be that he CAN'T stop his immediate angry response to certain situations because it's akin to a bullet being shot out of a gun..it happens too quickly for him to stop it and it builds and builds to a point where he can't pull back and reduce his anger without your intervention or when it's too late. The proper medication will help reduce this "trigger" response and your husband will then get the "breathing room" he needs to start to think things through before he gets out of control. 

Your son shouldn't have to live with this and it WILL affect him negatively. Trust me on that. Your husband is a grown man and should be looking out for his son's best interest but HE is acting like a child! So now YOU have to stand up and be the parent and adult here and protect your son. It's YOUR responsibility to look out for your child and your HUSBAND'S responsibility to stop denying his problem and take steps to fix things. You need to make it clear that there will be dire consequences if he doesn't come to this realization and take the appropriate action needed.[/QUOTE]
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## Freak On a Leash

crazycat25 said:


> I'm sorry to hear what you went through! It sounds like you have done the homework ...as they say.. And come out much stronger because of it. The problem with my husband is that he won't get that help. I tried talking to him again last night. He was very receptive and said he's told our son he's sorry for yelling and thanked me for the reminder about screaming not being the answer.
> 
> But I still worry. Especially after what you mentioned. My son asked me yesterday out of the blue... Why is daddy so mean to me? The other thing I will ask here... If your spouse or child accidentally stepped on your foot or dropped something on your toe... Would your immediate action be to push them back aggressively or kick them? My husband has done this... And as you mentioned in your post.. It appeared to be an unconscious reaction to pain. But he hurt me... By pushing me backwards after I accidentally put part of a chair on his toe. Of course it hurt him... And I figured it was a reflex to pain but now I'm starting to question everything. I know I do NOT act that way when an accident happens. But maybe men are different?
> 
> Thanks again.


Look at how your son is asking you about your husband?  Does that break your heart? It would break mine! You are his MOTHER. You have a DUTY to protect him. Your husband needs to be yanked HARD in the right direction. I'd threaten to leave or to call social services if he flies into a rage again. 

Think that this is over the top? Think again because I GUARANTEE that you will be seeing your local Child Protective Service representative on your doorstep at some point. One day your husband is GOING to hurt that boy. One day your son is going to tell a teacher or a friend's mother what is going on and you WILL be reported. This is a guarantee and THEN you will be in a WORLD of sh-t. This is not something you want to happen because you could end up LOSING your child! 

You have a 4 year old child and a husband who is acting like one. YOU need to be the adult and take the appropriate action. That means laying out clearly, calmly and precisely exactly WHAT you want and expect your husband to do..that means therapy, anger management and medication. Find the appropriate places to get it and MAKE SURE he gets it! If he doesn't then change the locks and tell him he isn't welcome home until he does. 

This is ABUSE, clear and simple. If he was treating YOU like this would you take it? DOES he treat you like this? Seems he does!

If my kids or H stepped on my foot I'd yell "Ouch!" and maybe curse and tell them to be careful but I wouldn't strike out aggressively and do physical harm. This is why I'm thinking that there is a PHYSIOLOGICAL basis for what your husband is going through and you need to see a medical doctor to start, along with the aforementioned therapy. 

Time to wake up and smell the coffee. You owe it to your SON. I don't think you realize just how badly this is all sounding.


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## crazycat25

I understand what you are saying.* I really do.** When he went to therapy about 8 months ago - he seemed to really seem receptive to changing** However,* he quickly began telling me that his therapist saw no concern in how he's acting ...and he just stopped going.** He said he really felt SO MUCH better -after therapy.** He's the type that if I nag him...he will probably go back ...but as soon as I back off...he's like a kid acting out when the parents leave.*
*
* He is the type of person who calls you...you tell them that you have to go...gotta get back to work.** He just keeps talking...talking...and you are patient and listen to him.* Then, as soon as YOU say something..he says....ok I gotta go!* Talk to you later!** It makes life with him pretty darn tough.** Yesterday I was in the grocery store.* Checking out -- kids nearby - he called about something work related.** I said ...boy I've got my hands full here...what do you need?* He said - oh blah blah blah.* I make it out of the store after tripping over things...wrangling the kids ...just to listen to him on the phone and what HE wants/needs.* Then - I get in the car -- can actually talk and he says "ok I've got to go!* BYE"** It's almost like he does it on purpose - even though I know he doesn't.*
*
I think it's possible that he's slowly improving...I see his anger appear less frequently.* But - i'm really tired of constantly having to remind him to be nice.** It's a lot of work.... and I'm tired of it.** My therapist actually did call CPS on him when he accidentally kicked our son last year.* She said she HAD to...since I told her I was concerned.* Of course - CPS came out - scared the life out of me...and then said that everything was GREAT!* My husband made her coffee..turned on the charm ..and all of a sudden- everything was JUST fine!* He has a way of smoothing things over....*
*
I guess leaving would be the best wake up call...but I just don't know if I have the strength yet.** I am also concerned that a trial seperation isn't enough because I have seen a lot of proof over the years..that he will change for the better as soon as he knows the meal ticket is about to hit the door.** Then...as soon as I forgive and forget...we are back to the problems.* He needs the internal desire to change for HIM.** Not for me...or for anyone else.* And he just doesn't have that....
*
I would actually miss a lot about him.* I know that sounds crazy.* I have no desire to kiss him ...be intimate with him...heck I often growl when I see he's texting me.* But I would miss our life.***
*
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## turnera

crazycat25 said:


> The problem with my husband is that he won't get that help.


Then it is YOUR job to protect your child from him.

When your husband is calm, look him in the eyes, and say "I know you love our son, but your inability to control your temper is harming him and scaring him; it is detrimental to his well-being and his ability to grow up into a healthy, secure adult. If you won't go to anger management classes and make a change, I will have to make a change on MY side. Every time you raise your voice or touch our son, I will remove him from your vicinity until you can get hold of your temper. We will return after 15 minutes, the first time. If you do it again, we'll leave for 30 minutes. If you contiinue - and still have not gone to get help - we will be staying somewhere else for the night. I love you, but I won't allow you to harm our child just because you won't get help."


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## crazycat25

Excellent advice. I will do that. I have a question. (not one I can ask friends). My husband tickles my son A LOT. It's like several times a day. He used to do that to me and I just run now. He stays away mostly now. But he tickles so hard it hurts! He won't let up! He used to do that to me anytime I would say something regarding to disagreeing with him. Is that normal? My son screams (while laughing too) for him to stop. 

Also he will dance like a goof... In the evening when my son turns on the music. It's not just bad dancing. It's ridiculous hip pumping... Just really odd. He has always been pretty silly but it is really grtting to me. He has even put underwear on his head and run around the house like that. THAT is not a common occurrence but it happens now and then. 

Just wondering thoughts on this. Cause either he is stoic or acting odd like that... 




turnera said:


> Then it is YOUR job to protect your child from him.
> 
> When your husband is calm, look him in the eyes, and say "I know you love our son, but your inability to control your temper is harming him and scaring him; it is detrimental to his well-being and his ability to grow up into a healthy, secure adult. If you won't go to anger management classes and make a change, I will have to make a change on MY side. Every time you raise your voice or touch our son, I will remove him from your vicinity until you can get hold of your temper. We will return after 15 minutes, the first time. If you do it again, we'll leave for 30 minutes. If you contiinue - and still have not gone to get help - we will be staying somewhere else for the night. I love you, but I won't allow you to harm our child just because you won't get help."


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## magnoliagal

I have a book recommendation for you. It will answer most of your questions about what's normal and what's not in terms of your son. It's an easy read and not too long. But to answer the tickling question in this book it says children have a right to their own bodies. So on the tickling if your son says stop your husband should stop.

Amazon.com: Healthy Parenting: How Your Upbringing Influences the Way You Raise Your Children, and What You Can Do to Make It Better for Them (9780671739492): Janet G. Woititz: Books


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## Freak On a Leash

I've been reading your past posts on your husband. This guy is a real sicko. He's an abusive loser and he's wrecked YOUR life and he's going to do the same to your son. He has a lot to answer for and unfortunately you seem to have a real habit of making excuses for him. You are the classic abuse victim and now your son is becoming one. It's got to stop, if only to save the REAL innocent victim here...Your son. 

You are an adult and are making a decision to stay in an abusive marriage with this jerk. Maybe it's out of fear or you are used to it. Whatever. But your son has no such choice. One of his parents is horrible and the other (you) are weak but in the end HE is suffering and it will get worse the older he gets. 

25 years from now do you want your son to be feeling as you do? Or worse..to emulate the actions of your husband with HIS wife and kids? Do you want this for your son? When you became his parent you took on the responsibility to love and PROTECT that child. NO ONE is doing this! NO ONE is making this child a priority! You might love him but you aren't protecting him. You don't even protect yourself!

Go back and read your posts about your husband...It is truly scary stuff! If you had a friend or relative you cared about and read this stuff what would you say to them? I'm betting you'd say to get the hell out. 

So I'm going to say the same to you. Get the Hell out. If you didn't have a child then it would be your problem only but now your child is being destroyed by this horrid, destructive man. 

Oh, and please don't defend him anymore. It's really disgusting to see. He's an awful person. There are many people who are just horrible, evil, twisted and broken people. It's a fact of life. Unfortunately you are married to one and he's fathered your son. Time to end this charade and get yourself and your son away from this monster.


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## crazycat25

I appreciate this post. You are clearly trying to help me see the light. I AM weak. It's shameful...I know. I think what keeps me holding on is the fact that I see some improvement in him. Also.. It's my fear of failure too. 

He can be very kind. ( I know I'm defending him again) but I also worry that I'm painting an unfair picture. He can tell that I'm not "right" lately and on the fence. I know he senses it because he's back on good behavior. He's trying to spoil me on mother's day. He's making a big deal. I just wish that I could be forgiving and absorb his kindness. I keep putting up the wall because I have been hurt so much. 

I'm going to secretly start looking for a place to move. I will probably need support here! I'm terrified! Talk about co-dependent. 



Freak On a Leash said:


> I've been reading your past posts on your husband. This guy is a real sicko. He's an abusive loser and he's wrecked YOUR life and he's going to do the same to your son. He has a lot to answer for and unfortunately you seem to have a real habit of making excuses for him. You are the classic abuse victim and now your son is becoming one. It's got to stop, if only to save the REAL innocent victim here...Your son.
> 
> You are an adult and are making a decision to stay in an abusive marriage with this jerk. Maybe it's out of fear or you are used to it. Whatever. But your son has no such choice. One of his parents is horrible and the other (you) are weak but in the end HE is suffering and it will get worse the older he gets.
> 
> 25 years from now do you want your son to be feeling as you do? Or worse..to emulate the actions of your husband with HIS wife and kids? Do you want this for your son? When you became his parent you took on the responsibility to love and PROTECT that child. NO ONE is doing this! NO ONE is making this child a priority! You might love him but you aren't protecting him. You don't even protect yourself!
> 
> Go back and read your posts about your husband...It is truly scary stuff! If you had a friend or relative you cared about and read this stuff what would you say to them? I'm betting you'd say to get the hell out.
> 
> So I'm going to say the same to you. Get the Hell out. If you didn't have a child then it would be your problem only but now your child is being destroyed by this horrid, destructive man.
> 
> Oh, and please don't defend him anymore. It's really disgusting to see. He's an awful person. There are many people who are just horrible, evil, twisted and broken people. It's a fact of life. Unfortunately you are married to one and he's fathered your son. Time to end this charade and get yourself and your son away from this monster.


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## Freak On a Leash

crazycat25 said:


> He can be very kind. ( I know I'm defending him again) but I also worry that I'm painting an unfair picture. He can tell that I'm not "right" lately and on the fence. I know he senses it because he's back on good behavior. He's trying to spoil me on mother's day. He's making a big deal. I just wish that I could be forgiving and absorb his kindness. I keep putting up the wall because I have been hurt so much.


:banghead: :slap: I wish there was a : puke: because I'm going to get sick! Holy CRAP!! what's it gonna take? Your son to have his head bashed in? Or taken away by CPS? What's it going to take? 

You are SUCH a typical victim of abuse...It's freakin' amazing! Your husband is the typical abuser. You know what abusers do? They say "sorry" and act all sweet after they abuse someone! But it's always RIGHT back to the abuse afterward. It's how they work! Look it up!

And then you excuse him and blame yourself and keeping hoping and praying that he'll change and point at every thing that you perceive as hopeful or good and say "See, see He's GOOD, he knows, he's changing!" It's amazing!! I hear about this and read about it but to see it here..wow. 

This isn't about YOU. If you didn't have a kid I'd say, "well, it's your life...You wanna be miserable, go ahead..."

This is about your CHILD. Tomorrow is Mother's Day. You know what you should do? Do something different for a change..Be a MOTHER. 

Tell your husband to go watch a baseball game or do whatever it is that he likes to do (besides criticize and put you down and yell at and injure your child) and take your son ALONE and have lunch with him and then take him someplace special. Do a picnic and the playground. Watch him laugh and play and have a good time because he'll be AWAY from your husband. You'll see. He'll be like a different child. I'll put money on it.

He won't be cowering in fear because your H might yell at him. He won't have that monster giving him a hard time because he's not "looking right" at the waiter. Or acting right or holding his fork right or any one of the many things your H is constantly berating and criticizing him for. I GREW UP with that kind of parent. I know what it is! I throw up reading threads like this one! 

And YOU will be more relaxed too! You'll have a great day. DO IT!! Take your boy out for the day and show him a good time. He deserves it and so do you! If ANYTHING will illustrate the need to boot that horrible excuse for a husband and father out of your lives it will be that! I dare you to do this! BE A MOM!!

Then you'll say.."Wow, it's true. Things ARE better" and you'll have the impetus to go and make some real changes. 

Do you have relatives? Parents who do care? Friends? Take your kid and get out immediately and go to one their homes for a visit and don't tell your H where you are going. Then do some research and find a place like a battered womens shelter. Call social services and talk to them. They will help you. They know of places that will help you. Tell them what you Husband is doing and how he acts. THERE ARE PLACES TO HELP YOU. It's what we all pay taxes for are so use them!

What's stopping you is just that..YOU. You have to stop making excuses for HIM and yourself and think of that child. THINK OF YOUR CHILD. 

You take your son out and you spend the day with him. You tell your husband that you don't want to spend the day with him and YOU STICK BY IT. Get up early and sneak out if you have to!! And after you spend a GREAT day laughing and playing with your son and see the change in him and feel it in you..the RELIEF from the the tension and horror you always have inside of you when you are with your husband..You will be convinced. 

Don't wait until something bad really happens or events spiral out of your control. Take control!! Be strong. You have no choice. You have a 4 year old child to save and by being there for him and saving him you will eventually save yourself. THIS IS ABOUT YOUR CHILD NOT YOU. 

As for your H...I'll personally piss all over his sorry a*ss. He disgusts me. He's a father and husband in name only. There's no excuse for his behavior...unless all the posts you have written and that I've read are a sham. If they are real you have a real problem that you need to address and solve. 

And don't tell me how "nice" he is or how he's trying to change. That's a load of BULL.  No one here is believing it. I've been reading your other threads and you've been TOLD this countless times. ENOUGH of the procrastination..time to do something. How many more thread are you going to write like this before you figure it out? Enough of the pity party!


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## Mrs.G

I spend my childhood being afraid to breathe. My mother had a hair trigger temper. She would often scream horrendous things that no child should hear from their parents. Beatings were commonplace and I didn't dare ask why she hated me; I just thought it was my fault.

In my late adolescence, I finally had a nervous breakdown. I was so angry that I was turning it on myself. 

It took me a long time to forgive my father for not protecting me. I see that he was a victim too, just like the OP is.

I am so scarred that I choose not to have children. The thought of subjecting my children to the same pain is just too scary. 

Sometimes parents have to yell to get their point across. However, your husband is not raising is voice occassionally. I believe that he is damaging your boy more than you are aware of. Please do something before it is too late. Psychological damage can be impossible to repair.


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## golfergirl

I do hear what Freak and the others are saying and I do agree this child and crazycat are being abused. I do have to share my story and while crazycat doesn't need more excuses - it is a caution. My first H (divorced 10 years ago when kids were 8 and 5) was abusive - similar to your H. He'd kick as a form of discipline, did give our son a bleeding nose once and threaten them. I left him because of his treatment of our kids. Here's the kicker. I turned him in at every wrong doing. I was not weak not wavering and while I got custody, he still got visitation. He would be supervised for a time but jumped through the hoops and attend anger management or parenting classes - then back to himself. CPS wouldn't help me (seen as bitter vengeful ex) and it was neverending. Had I known then what I know now, I'd have waited a few years til kids were old enough to make decision to not go for visits (around 13-14) beforE I left. It was killer hard to have kids go off alone with him when I couldn't protect them. CC's husband's counselor is fooled. He thinks he's fine. Real possibility if CC leaves, they share custody or at bare minimum, he gets visitation. Then what? Son is alone with no one to protect. CC can't up and leave and take the son with no grounds on paper. On paper it looks like this creep has strong discipline techniques, realized his errors and is working to correct himself. In my opinion - she's kind of stuck!
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## sisters359

Document with trips to the doctor, for sure. 

OMG, it is so sad and scary to see a woman falling for this, and to know a small boy is suffering b/c of it.

There is nothing "normal" about any use of physical punishment, ever. Gently removing a small child from a dangerous situation does not create bruises, for example; many of us have done it soooo many times with nary a bruise to show. That's a common excus and it's b.s. You have SO MUCH MORE to worry about.

And you need to be attending therapy with your spouse--he is LYING to the therapist or lying to you about what's gone on. No self respecting therapist would condone his behavior, ever. They'd see right through this. I suspect your h quit going and just told you b.s. about what the therapist said.

Please, put in some "nanny cams" or something, stick a recorder in your pocket to turn on at the next screaming session, whatever it takes to get hard evidence of this behavior. You need to protect your child and, as golfergirl said, it can be sooooo stressful for you AND the kids if h seems to "improve" enough to get unsupervised visitation. Talk to a lawyer about protecting the kids. Make it very clear from day 1 that you want the kid(s)to have a relationship with their dad--but through supervised visits only. Start planning your exit now, gathering evidence and being vigilant. Stop thinking he is "improving;" your son CANNOT be part of h's learning process--jeez, what are you thinking? It's mother's day--MOM UP! And take care of your child!


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## crazycat25

Thank you so much for your support. I will be taking action. 

I just want to clarify... My son was never bruised. Yes there was a horrible "accident" where he was investigated for kicking our son when he accidentally got him in the groin. The therapist agreed with him that it was a leg reflex since he was in a stretching position. My therapist did not. She called Cps. He went to therapy and then stopped. I saw a change in him. He has a history though of pushing our son back .. When he steps on his toe or something. That has happened a couple of times. Again he says it is his reflex to pain. Bologna. And then the most recent was his shouting in his face aggressively. 



sisters359 said:


> Document with trips to the doctor, for sure.
> 
> OMG, it is so sad and scary to see a woman falling for this, and to know a small boy is suffering b/c of it.
> 
> There is nothing "normal" about any use of physical punishment, ever. Gently removing a small child from a dangerous situation does not create bruises, for example; many of us have done it soooo many times with nary a bruise to show. That's a common excus and it's b.s. You have SO MUCH MORE to worry about.
> 
> And you need to be attending therapy with your spouse--he is LYING to the therapist or lying to you about what's gone on. No self respecting therapist would condone his behavior, ever. They'd see right through this. I suspect your h quit going and just told you b.s. about what the therapist said.
> 
> Please, put in some "nanny cams" or something, stick a recorder in your pocket to turn on at the next screaming session, whatever it takes to get hard evidence of this behavior. You need to protect your child and, as golfergirl said, it can be sooooo stressful for you AND the kids if h seems to "improve" enough to get unsupervised visitation. Talk to a lawyer about protecting the kids. Make it very clear from day 1 that you want the kid(s)to have a relationship with their dad--but through supervised visits only. Start planning your exit now, gathering evidence and being vigilant. Stop thinking he is "improving;" your son CANNOT be part of h's learning process--jeez, what are you thinking? It's mother's day--MOM UP! And take care of your child!


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nicbrownn80

No it is not. I think things like this happens to the best of parents!!


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## Mom6547

crazycat25 said:


> I'm sorry to hear what you went through! It sounds like you have done the homework ...as they say.. And come out much stronger because of it. The problem with my husband is that he won't get that help. I tried talking to him again last night. He was very receptive and said he's told our son he's sorry for yelling and thanked me for the reminder about screaming not being the answer.
> 
> But I still worry. Especially after what you mentioned. My son asked me yesterday out of the blue... Why is daddy so mean to me? The other thing I will ask here... If your spouse or child accidentally stepped on your foot or dropped something on your toe... Would your immediate action be to push them back aggressively or kick them? My husband has done this...


There is no excuse for this. This is very much Not Right. He is the FATHER. He does not hurt the CHILD. Ever.



> And as you mentioned in your post.. It appeared to be an unconscious reaction to pain. But he hurt me... By pushing me backwards after I accidentally put part of a chair on his toe. Of course it hurt him... And I figured it was a reflex to pain but now I'm starting to question everything. I know I do NOT act that way when an accident happens. But maybe men are different?


No. Grown ups learn self control.


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## Syrum

If I accidentally hurt my SO, he says Ouch.

You do not hurt someone for accidentally hurting you, not a child nor adult nor anyone. Even if my son came and pushed me on purpose, I wouldn't push him back, he would be in trouble and I would let him know, we do not push people.

Your DH is abusive and you need to understand that you are acting like someone who has been abused and just desperately and understandable wants things to be different. BUT they are not different, and you should not stay there untill someone gets really physically harmed. Your son is the same age as mine, and I am very very sad that he is being abused like this.


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## turnera

crazycat25 said:


> Excellent advice. I will do that. I have a question. (not one I can ask friends). My husband tickles my son A LOT. It's like several times a day. He used to do that to me and I just run now. He stays away mostly now. But he tickles so hard it hurts! He won't let up! He used to do that to me anytime I would say something regarding to disagreeing with him. Is that normal? My son screams (while laughing too) for him to stop.
> 
> Also he will dance like a goof... In the evening when my son turns on the music. It's not just bad dancing. It's ridiculous hip pumping... Just really odd. He has always been pretty silly but it is really grtting to me. He has even put underwear on his head and run around the house like that. THAT is not a common occurrence but it happens now and then.
> 
> Just wondering thoughts on this. Cause either he is stoic or acting odd like that...
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tickling your son that much is abuse, if your son doesn't wholeheartedly enjoy it. Does he? If not, it's YOUR job, again, to protect your son from H's inability to understand the difference.

fwiw, my DH, too, does weird dancing and goofy stuff. I used to be ok with it, 30 years ago, or at least I just ignored it. I thought it was cute that he could be so free to act out, even in front of strangers in public. But now I'm sick of it; I should have put my foot down back then, probably too late now. He doesn't understand that it makes him look bad.


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## turnera

crazycat25 said:


> He's making a big deal. I just wish that I could be forgiving and absorb his kindness. I keep putting up the wall because I have been hurt so much.


On the outside chance that he's not a real abuser, you owe it to him to tell him the truth about how you feel.


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## rolltidemom86

its abuse the early stages of it, my step dad started screaming like your husband does when i was 7, over the years it got worse then finally when i was 11 he beat the crap out of me while we were going down the road, best advice would ask your husband to go to anger management classes now


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## rolltidemom86

also if my boyfriend ever kicked my son i would kick my boyfriend in a heartbeat then cal lthe cops to which you should have,your falling for his sorrys then theres no hope for you not til he beats the crap out of you then maybe just maybe you'll leave him then in any case i hope your son isn't damaged by your actions because they all have consequences


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## Laurae1967

When you stay with an abuser, you change who your children are as people. Tickling and pushing is not normal. And if there is a history of this stuff, you need to tell your husband that you are leaving him unless he goes to a new therapist (a licensed psychologist) AND anger management classes. If he refuses to go, you leave him.


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