# In a FOG



## Cry For No One (Feb 7, 2013)

I'm new to the site, been lurking for a while and this is my first post. I think I'm definitely in a FOG but at the same time, I know that I'm not happy in my marriage and want out. I haven't "technically" cheated but I know in my heart I already have.

My wife and I have been together 12 years and married 11. She got pregnant while we were dating, neither of us believed in abortion for convenience, and I felt the honorable thing to do was to marry her. I definitely would not have otherwise although I know she wanted to marry me. So I tried to love her and make it work, but after a few years I checked out. I'm a good father and provider but I'm not a good husband. I want to be and I know I can be, just not with her. I've stayed in the marriage for my daughter's sake. We recently had a conversation where she said "we're roommates" with a child. I could not disagree. She stated certain things I had to start doing otherwise we had to go to therapy. I changed those habits immediately and she backed off, but I actually wanted to go to therapy. Not sure now why I didn't say let's go anyway. I guess my fear is that it's going to come out that it's not that I don't love her anymore, but that I never loved her and now I'm just not trying to pretend anymore. I care for her deeply as a person and don't want to hurt her. But as I think about it, I know I wouldn't want to live a lie and spend the rest of my life with someone who doesn't love me. So as painful as it is in the short term, it's probably best to release her.

For years I've fantasized about being with other women. Sometimes sexually but mostly romantically. I never did anything even remotely close to cheating though until recently. I play in a band and met the OW at one of our gigs. She's a friend of a groupie. Now I don't wear a wedding ring when we gig because when you play guitar sometimes the ring can make a horrible crack on the neck on a slide or quick chord change. It has nothing to do with hiding the fact I'm married. Many times I go out of my way to put my ring back on when between sets. But I forgot to put my ring back on when I was introduced to her. She was gorgeous so I figured it was his date - turns out they were former coworkers. We only talked briefly and she played it very cool but something was telling me "Danger. Sparks flying." After our break we started another set and she and her friend left.

The next week she came back with her friend, and I just knew the second she walked in the door she was back to see me. Again she was just "hanging out" but I could tell. I remember consciously deciding NOT to put on my ring this time. I could have shut things down that night, but I guess I wanted to flirt and see where it went. We chatted a bit longer this time, but it was just friendly banter between the three of us. Our groupie, who is a bartender at a restaurant nearby has been urging me to go there for dinner sometime. The three of us agreed to meet there for dinner next week. I told my wife exactly what I was doing - I'm going to dinner with groupie and his FEMALE friend. No problem. Was not a date at all in my mind though I won't pretend the thought of just staring at her for a few hours over dinner was intoxicating.

I was thinking three of us go out and I'll just casually mention my marriage at some point and end it. I had a little fun walking on the wild side but I needed to stop. When I showed up I realized this was not threes company, it was the groupie bartending and waiting on us, and me and her basically on a date! I was dressed like a slob and she was dressed to the nines! The nutty thing is I don’t know how groupie doesn’t know I’m married. I'm certain I mentioned it before, but maybe he just wasn’t listening or didn’t care. He was clearly playing cupid for her. Needless to say I lied by omission and basically had a first date with her. By the end of the night I was smitten, I guess officially in a FOG. But I couldn’t cross the line and just hugged her at the end of the night. By the time I got home my euphoria changed to guilt and anger at with myself and the next day I deleted her number.

I had no contact with her for about two months but she showed up to another one of my gigs a couple weeks ago. Right afterwards, we slipped away to grab a bite. We talked for 3 hours. The more I talked to her the more engrossed I've become. Last night I went out with my band mates after practice. I knew she was in the area so I casually texted her. This is the first time I sought her out! She was there in almost no time. We slipped away from our friends to grab a bite and did the same exact thing again. We talked about life, philosophy, religion. I’m agnostic and turns out she’s Christian and though not a virgin is born again and saving herself for marriage. I’m so enamored with her right now that I said to myself “that’s OK”. It’s not about sex. I’m finding this companionship with her that I've NEVER had with my wife of 12 years. We haven’t kissed or even held hands yet but this is so clearly romantic what we are doing…
One thing I realized as I was typing this is that I’m talking so much more about the OW than my wife. That is where my mind is at right now. But I feel sick. I want to be with the OW, but a relationship cannot be built on a lie. I have to tell her I’m married but I’m almost certain she’ll never talk to me again. I also have to talk to my wife. Do we even seek therapy at this point or is it over? Separate now and set us both free? I weep at the thought of what breaking up will do to my daughter. She's the only reason why I've stayed for so long.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

First things first: Stop with the OW immediately. You are only doing harm to yourself by continuing on with the charade. Does she even know you're married yet?

Secondly, you and your wife agreed that your were roomies with a baby. I would think at that point you would either consider marriage counseling or separation. It's what adults do. They don't pretend it's "not that bad" and they certainly don't "stay for the kid(s)". You're a musician...listen and read the lyrics to "Stay Together for the Kids". I know because that song is my life as a child.

You are not in that much of a fog, in my opinion. You are in a place of unknowing. Ask why you stay with your wife. Ask why you enjoy being with the OW.

Ask what's best for you and your wife...not to mention your child.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

This OW will likely drop you like a hot potato when she finds out you're hitched. Either way, don't betray your wife. Leave her first. Be a man.


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## movingforward2013 (Jan 26, 2013)

My ex did something like this to me... Except he "broke us up" and then slept with other woman and then regretted it and wanted to let her go for his family. Unfortunately, he was never truthful to either of us and I ended up finding out about it.

I think you are experiencing "GIGS" and unfortunately the grass isn't always greener on the other side... It is green where you water it.
If you truly do not love your wife, come clean and let her go. Be ready to take all of the consequences you are about to be handed with when you break up a family. You do not have to be with your wife because of your child so think about what you want.

If I were in your place, I would go to marriage counseling with my wife and give it a shot.


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## Cry For No One (Feb 7, 2013)

The-Deceived said:


> This OW will likely drop you like a hot potato when she finds out you're hitched. Either way, don't betray your wife. Leave her first. Be a man.


Of course she will. She's free to date anyone she wants. I'm trapped (I did it to myself 12 years ago) and desperate. Thus my actions (lying) are of a desperate man. There is probably no potential for us to have a relationship. Again it's my fault. If I had left my wife sooner, we could have entered this relationship in a healthy space.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

It's positive you recognize the fog. As stated by others you must inform the other woman right away. If she is truly of faith she will drop you immediately as she should. You already know that. The other reason it must end is you need a clear head in moving forward with your wife. If you truly don't want to remain married to her then you must do that with a clear head on its own merits. If she wants to remain married she has the right to fight for the marriage on a level playing field. You owe her that much.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

My first thought is that if you tell the OW she's going to leave you...which she should cause you're a LIAR and a cheater, even if you havent "technically" cheated in your mind. I hate to break it to you but you HAVE cheated...you havent given your body to her but you've given your mind to the OW, you think about her and want to be with her. YES THATS CHEATING!

I feel sorry for your wife. I have said to my WH a couple of times that I feel like we are roommates but I said it in a way to try to make him realize how distant I felt from him at times. I would probably curl into a fetal position if he came to me and said that our entire marriage was a lie and he never really loved me. 

You need to get things right with your wife AND CHILD first!!


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Cry For No One said:


> Of course she will. She's free to date anyone she wants. I'm trapped (I did it to myself 12 years ago) and desperate. Thus my actions (lying) are of a desperate man. There is probably no potential for us to have a relationship. Again it's my fault. If I had left my wife sooner, we could have entered this relationship in a healthy space.


Dont get hung up on the "what ifs"...because ultimately if you wouldnt have gone on a date with your wife and had sex with her the most important thing in your life wouldnt be here right now.

People choose a path, sometimes its not always the right path and they dont realize that til they reach a dead end.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

"Born again" and "saving herself". Sounds like she might be a little deluded. If a cheater becomes a born again - does that mean they never had sex with their AP?


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

At what point in your relationship with your wife did you FIRST tell her that you loved her? I’m willing to bet that even though you say that you “never” loved her, you TOLD her that you did. You probably told her that you did BEFORE she got pregnant.

I apologize if I sound a bit harsh, but I recently went through something similar with someone I lived with for over 4 years. Not only did it ‘cost’ me emotionally, but financially as well. Had I known the TRUTH back then, I would have had the money to leave the r/s 3 years earlier. 

Tell your wife. Heck, I'd even divorce your wife. She deserves to be with someone who loves her. Pay for child support. Seek out your ‘true love’, and when you find her I hope the two of you get married…
…and 12 years later, she tells YOU that she “never loved you”...

Did you know that you "never loved your wife" BEFORE or AFTER you met this other woman? (the answer to this question is important)

Vega


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## Cry For No One (Feb 7, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> First things first: Stop with the OW immediately. You are only doing harm to yourself by continuing on with the charade. Does she even know you're married yet?


Absolutely not. I know she will never talk to me again so I've continued the charade. It's reaching the tipping point for me though. Every time I see her, it's 3-4 hours of feeling like a silly teenager, then a sleepless night from guilt and feeling ill for a day or more...



SomedayDig said:


> Secondly, you and your wife agreed that your were roomies with a baby. I would think at that point you would either consider marriage counseling or separation. It's what adults do. They don't pretend it's "not that bad" and they certainly don't "stay for the kid(s)". You're a musician...listen and read the lyrics to "Stay Together for the Kids". I know because that song is my life as a child.


I know it. Great song. Here's the thing both these women are Asian, and I'm part Asian. We've all been raised in Asian families. My wife moved here when she was 25. Although the OW and I are both thoroughly Americanized, our parents are not. Asian culture is different. In some ways it's great, and in other ways it's sick and disgusting. Passionless marriages in Asian culture are the norm. Yet, they produce generation after generation of good students, upstanding citizens, with really strong family values. That's the great part. The disgusting part is my wife's family and the OW's family had parents with horribly dysfunctional marriages. The OW told me her dad cheated all the time and later died of hepatitis. My wife's dad was a verbally abusive drunk and a loser. Yet both mom's stayed by their sides. You might need to be Asian to understand. Asian's generally laugh at white people because a lot of them hate their siblings, can't wait to leave the house, hate holiday gatherings, you're a loser if you live with your parents, and then send them to a home when they are old. Those are unthinkable in traditional Asian families, and quite rare even with 2nd and 3rd generation Asian Americans. As a whole the family unit is much stronger than Western families, despite the horrible marriages. So in my family AND my wife's family there is tremendous pressure to stay together no matter what. Our parents would say "What is happening to you is normal. Think about your kids. Never break up the family." It's actually more socially acceptable to discreetly cheat than to divorce. I'm very Americanized so I would leave. My wife would not. Her family would not. My family would not. Frankly my parent's would never forgive me. You violate the Asian trust and you are out of the family circle. That would have dire consequences on my relationship with my daughter.


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## Cry For No One (Feb 7, 2013)

Vega said:


> Did you know that you "never loved your wife" BEFORE or AFTER you met this other woman? (the answer to this question is important)
> 
> Vega


I knew that the day I found out she was pregnant. i thought that was clear.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Dude...I totally hear you. My uncle married a Korean woman. My cousin is half Korean and American. She married a guy who is Japanese. I totally understand the dynamics, and I can only relate what I've heard from my cousin and her husband. Some times you have to do what is best for you regardless of your family and their traditional values. Do you live in an Asian country? Was this an arranged marraige where the balance of power from one family to the next would be tipped unfairly?

No.

While I understand your fear of the impact a divorce would have on the relationship with your daughter, I can only remind you of one thing: You live in f'ng America. Neither your parents nor her parents OR your wife for that matter can tell you what happens with your rights as a father.

Yes, Asians are great rug sweepers. I know what really happened between my late unlce and my aunt. I've heard the stories from my cousin. It's pretty damn sad.

Take 10 minutes and go look in the f'ng mirror. Drop your ego and everything along with it and drop the idea of what your parents want and what her parents want and hell...even what your wife wants.

What do YOU want?

You've started down a slippery slope with this OW. Your complete honesty to yourself is what is due. There's no grace period here. You need to decide.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

LetDownNTX said:


> I feel sorry for your wife. I have said to my WH a couple of times that I feel like we are roommates but I said it in a way to try to make him realize how distant I felt from him at times. I would probably curl into a fetal position if he came to me and said that our entire marriage was a lie and he never really loved me.


I read things like this and it makes me cry. I am living a very bad situation right now. Married almost 22 years. Living overseas. I left home to get long term medical care somewhere else. Communicationon his end dwiddled and finances prevented me from coming home, even for a visit between doc appointments. He came for a visit and gave me the "don't love you, haven't loved you for a long time" speech and said he wanted a divorce. Why? I now know it was another woman he moved into our home, but he has not admitted it yet. That night he told me "maybe we just stayed together for our son, but he is grown now". OMG! Does anyone have any idea what that feels like to be told such a thing after 22 years? 

Worst part is his irresponsibility 2 years into our marriage caused us to be financially unable to maintain the home and I moved in with my parents. I gave him the freedom he apparently wanted, but he came crawling back and said he could not live without me. I took him back after expecting changes that he followed through. So, 20 years later, he tells me we stayed together for our son? Is he freakin serious? So, basically his reason for begging me to come back to him was because he wanted to avoid child support for 16 years? I was just a free live in nanny and housekeeper? WTF? When I called crap on that reason, he paused and said "I am tired of the financial problems" (that BTW, he created with gambling and dating his mistress). Umm.....so which is it? When he told our now grown son about his plan to divorce, he said "I've wanted to leave your mom for a long time now, but you are now grown so I can". WTF? What was all the "I love you" at the end of every call and e-mail? What was the "I'd marry you again"? I guess the huge tattoo of my name on his arm was his way of reminding himself how much he wanted to leave me all these years?

Yeah, fetal position.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Your W is not your charity case. She has pride and a right to honest love and an honest marriage. You are not giving her the great gift of yourself by lying to her about your feelings. And now you are allowing yourself to become romantically attached to someone else and lying to that woman as well.

Stop thinking for your W and start respecting her right to honesty from you.


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## Cry For No One (Feb 7, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> Take 10 minutes and go look in the f'ng mirror. Drop your ego and everything along with it and drop the idea of what your parents want and what her parents want and hell...even what your wife wants.
> 
> What do YOU want?
> 
> You've started down a slippery slope with this OW. Your complete honesty to yourself is what is due. There's no grace period here. You need to decide.


I want to have great relationship with my daughter.
I want my wife to have a great relationship with her too.
I want to remain friends with my wife.
I want to be with someone like (not necessarily) the OW.
I want to stop heading down the path of lying and deceit. It's not me.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Cry For No One said:


> I want to have great relationship with my daughter.
> I want my wife to have a great relationship with her too.
> I want to remain friends with my wife.
> I want to be with someone like (not necessarily) the OW.
> I want to stop heading down the path of lying and deceit. It's not me.


Well, hoss...there you have it.

Let's face it, you've already blown it with the OW for all intents and purposes. You don't want to enter into a relationship based on any false pretense ever.

So, where do you go from here? You have a grown up sit down talk with your wife. You tell her EXACTLY how you feel and EXACTLY what you've done by meeting up with another chick. Yeah, I know nothing "happened" but it did. You know it, I know it and all of TAM knows it. You wanna stop heading down that ugly path? Turn the f'ng corner hoss!

Break the Asian chain. Be the man you want your daughter to look up to, not the one she's gonna resent much like your wife does her father.

Break the f'ng chain, man!


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Cry For No One said:


> I want to stop heading down the path of lying and deceit. *It's not me*.


R U _*KIDDING*_??? You've been lying to and deceiving your wife for 12 YEARS!! It think your actions pretty much solidify that it *IS* you! 



Vega


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## AlexDeLarge (Jan 28, 2012)

Vega said:


> R U _*KIDDING*_??? You've been lying to and deceiving your wife for 12 YEARS!! It think your actions pretty much solidify that it *IS* you!
> 
> 
> 
> Vega


CFNO,

Take comments like these with a grain of salt. Most of the people here are victims of infidelity and filled with scorn and hate because of their own personal experience. There is some great advice here but you have to wade through some of the emotion. You're about to do the right thing and at the right time. We've all made mistakes in the past. All that matters is that you do what's right in the end.

The OW has entered your life for a reason. It's a call to action. Not to have an affair but to WAKE UP and start living the rest of your life! By doing nothing you are slowly destroying your life, your wife's life, and though you may not see it now, your daughter's life. The OW is so obviously a messenger! You've talked with her about religion, sex is off the table, her cheating Asian dad. I guarantee you if you do wind up in a LTR with her, the damage from her relationship with her dad will come out. She's your daughter if you mess this up!

You should end the relationship with the OW immediately. She is there to deliver a message not become your mistress. Go to counselling, then end your marriage if that doesn't work out. If you and the OW were meant to be together, seek her out then, once you are SINGLE if she's still available!


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## AlexDeLarge (Jan 28, 2012)

The-Deceived said:


> "Born again" and "saving herself". Sounds like she might be a little deluded. If a cheater becomes a born again - does that mean they never had sex with their AP?


WTF! Why so judgmental. We know nothing about her except my guess is it has something to do with her cheating father.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

*The truth will set you free.*

because your emotionally comprimised, im going to give you save you from a whole world of phucked up and tell you two lies that you can not see through your fog... *DO NOT* include these in your 'truth'. 

1. You do love your wife. You just can't recogonize it right now. You will. DO NOT tell her you never loved her. Besides being cruel, it's a lie. I promise, you'll see. It's foggy chicken/egg syndrome.

2. The way you feel about this other women, it's a lie. and Trust me, I know exactly what just went through your head when you read that. lol. Read the link in my signature about fog it will shed some light on the chemical clusterphuck going on in your head right now. 

IF YOU do things right, There could be something with this women. WHo knows?, there a chance. but if you go into it under the current set of circumstances, you will poison it forever.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Cry For No One said:


> I want to have great relationship with my daughter.
> I want my wife to have a great relationship with her too.
> I want to remain friends with my wife.
> I want to be with someone like (not necessarily) the OW.
> I want to stop heading down the path of lying and deceit. It's not me.


Okay - let's get this straight .....
You want to have his great relationship with your duaghter BUT you are cheating on her mother.
You want to remain friends with your wife BUT you are cheating on her.
You want to head down the path of honesty but you are lying and being deceitful.....
Get the point?

Now I'll tell you a story....after my first was born I became emotionally entangled with a colleague. At the time, I thought my spouse was this uncommunicative and cold woman who was not deep and did not understand me and we nearly broke up. It was not until I got some distance from my colleague that I realize that my spouse just had a baby and was trying to keep the family together and was tired.....and what a schmuck I was for criticizing her, judging her, getting emotionally entangled and thinking of myself when I should have been forcusing on my family. 

I feel guilty for that to this day. I did everything I could to make it up to her. I later grew to love and respect my wife very much afterwards.

Point being - I am sure your wife is a good person and if you pull away from this outside interest - they will become clear - she was obviously nice enough to have sexual relations with---cannot be that bad....ou share a child together...good mother...need I go on?

Point being you cannot see these because the other bimbo is in the picture.....get rid of her - wait ahile THEN come back and tell us how you feel....


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## Cry For No One (Feb 7, 2013)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> *The truth will set you free.*
> 
> because your emotionally comprimised, im going to give you save you from a whole world of phucked up and tell you two lies that you can not see through your fog... *DO NOT* include these in your 'truth'.
> 
> ...


How can you speak in such absolutes like you know me better than myself??? You can't tell me that I do or don't love my wife. I've been doing a lot of reading and recognize the difference between romantic and committed love. I also know how romantic love messes with your brain at a chemical level. I am fully aware that at this moment my feelings for the OW are clouded by romantic love. But the fact remains I've always known, well before meeting the OW, that I've had committed love only for my wife but have never felt romantic love. I married her because she was pregnant. No other reason. I don't know how I can state that more plainly.

That said, I totally agree with your closing comment.


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## Cry For No One (Feb 7, 2013)

bigtone128 said:


> Okay - let's get this straight .....
> You want to have his great relationship with your duaghter BUT you are cheating on her mother.
> You want to remain friends with your wife BUT you are cheating on her.
> You want to head down the path of honesty but you are lying and being deceitful.....
> ...


That's your story not mine. So you had an EA very early in your marriage with a colleague while you're wife was probably suffering from post partum. And unlike me, I'm sure you wanted the baby! So how can you possibly be so judgmental about me?

Isn't it within the realm of possibility that I'm more compatible with the OW than my wife? I'm not saying I am. But people are already filling in the blanks and calling the OW a bimbo and deluded, and my wife good person, dutiful, etc... I haven't really shared anything meaningful about either of them and yet these rash conclusions are being drawn!!!


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## Cry For No One (Feb 7, 2013)

Someday Dig,

You're support and advice have been terrific. Many thanks!


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Don't forget, man...Einstein said: Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Break the chain, man. 

you're welcome.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Cry For No One said:


> That's your story not mine. So you had an EA very early in your marriage with a colleague while you're wife was probably suffering from post partum. And unlike me, I'm sure you wanted the baby! So how can you possibly be so judgmental about me?
> 
> Isn't it within the realm of possibility that I'm more compatible with the OW than my wife? I'm not saying I am. But people are already filling in the blanks and calling the OW a bimbo and deluded, and my wife good person, dutiful, etc... I haven't really shared anything meaningful about either of them and yet these rash conclusions are being drawn!!!


Okay so I share a personal story with you to help you and you use it against me - okie dokie....

So you had unprotected sex with your partner and did not want the baby? You knew the ramifications of having unprotected sex did you not? 

Leaving that aside - yes it is in the realm of possibility you are more compatible with the OW than your wife BUT firstly, how do you feel being involved with a woman who willingly became involved with a married or involved man (I call that a bimbo you can fill in the blank with whatever term you choose to use). Do you know how many spouses come on this site and claim the same thing you do, only to later state they were deep in the fog? If you do not believe that, examine the statistics on the success rate of such relationships. 

\Kinda reminds me of that Seinfeld episode where Jerry and Elaine want to sleep together and remain friends..we know how that worked out...

The Deal - YouTube

good luck with your relationship...


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## Cry For No One (Feb 7, 2013)

bigtone128 said:


> Okay so I share a personal story with you to help you and you use it against me - okie dokie....
> 
> So you had unprotected sex with your partner and did not want the baby? You knew the ramifications of having unprotected sex did you not?
> 
> ...


OK So we have a misunderstanding here that is leading to some animosity. I said she doesn't know I'm married - you missed that. So i got a little irritated when you called her a bimbo for no reason. It weakened my opinion of everything else you said. Didn't mean to turn sharing your experience around on you. Peace OK?


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## Cry For No One (Feb 7, 2013)

bigtone128 said:


> So you had unprotected sex with your partner and did not want the baby? You knew the ramifications of having unprotected sex did you not?


Also that's not what happened. She was on the pill for the longest time but her doctor said she was VERY unlikely to get pregnant (fibroid condition) so she got off the pill because its not good for you - we're both organic / very health conscious. So much for f**king doctor's opinions...


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Cry For No One said:


> Also that's not what happened. She was on the pill for the longest time but her doctor said she was VERY unlikely to get pregnant (fibroid condition) so she got off the pill because its not good for you - we're both organic / very health conscious. So much for f**king doctor's opinions...


Very unlikely doesn't mean sterile. Condoms are an alternative that also help protect against STDs.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

SaltInWound said:


> Very unlikely doesn't mean sterile. Condoms are an alternative that also help protect against STDs.


Sorry...but after dating a chick for quite a while and trusting and knowing she doesn't have STD's, would YOU continue to use a condom? I know I didn't. They believed what they believed about not getting pregnant. Let's not change the subject of this issue: The OP doesn't "feel" love for his wife (which I doubt like others stated)...he started to get a chemical high from another chick and now he's gotta deal with that fallout.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Cry For No One said:


> How can you speak in such absolutes like you know me better than myself??? You can't tell me that I do or don't love my wife. I've been doing a lot of reading and recognize the difference between romantic and committed love. I also know how romantic love messes with your brain at a chemical level. I am fully aware that at this moment my feelings for the OW are clouded by romantic love. But the fact remains I've always known, well before meeting the OW, that I've had committed love only for my wife but have never felt romantic love. I married her because she was pregnant. No other reason. I don't know how I can state that more plainly.
> 
> That said, I totally agree with your closing comment.


You agreeing with his closing comment only proves that you have no interest in carrying on with the marriage but you really wanna be with this other woman.

Do you really think this other woman is gonna trust you in the future knowing you are married NOW and leading her own? You wont ever be trusted. Good luck with that mess!


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Cry For No One said:


> Also that's not what happened. She was on the pill for the longest time but her doctor said she was VERY unlikely to get pregnant (fibroid condition) so she got off the pill because its not good for you - we're both organic / very health conscious. So much for f**king doctor's opinions...


Can I ask how long you were with her before she got pregnant? Were you living together or anything before she got pregnant?


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> Sorry...but after dating a chick for quite a while and trusting and knowing she doesn't have STD's, would YOU continue to use a condom? I know I didn't. They believed what they believed about not getting pregnant. Let's not change the subject of this issue: The OP doesn't "feel" love for his wife (which I doubt like others stated)...he started to get a chemical high from another chick and now he's gotta deal with that fallout.


My question would be, what kind of a relationship (before marriage) did the OP feel this was? Dating a chick for quite a while has to mean something, unless this was a friends with benefits sort of thing. In which case I am curious to know how she viewed their pre-marriage relationship. Didn't he say he never loved her?


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I don't think you're remembering the history of your relationship with your wife, quite the way you would if the other woman wasn't involved.


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

Look, 

You may have already worked everything out in your head but the two women do not think like you or even know the truth about you or your feelings.
That is very selfish, I would suggest you leave your wife and move on before you are involved with anyone else, because it will devastate her if she finds out it was for another woman you were interested in no matter what culture you come from.
You don't realize it or want to but the OW does have that foggy affect on you a new love connection would.....Of course you are doing the contrast effect with the women.
You are playing a dangerous game right now, you may hurt both women and for what because you can't do the right thing and leave.
The other woman will just believe she is some side dish and your wife will lose all her self esteem thinking you replaced her with a new model.
Is that what you want.
I have spoken to children that have lived in a loveless marriage with their parents and they said the always felt the disconnect and they didn't feel like a family and that they wished their parents had separated instead of watching a loveless connection.
I would say forget the OW because no matter what now you can't make that right you can't hide the fact now that you have spent time with her while you were married, if she is a decent person she will see that is wrong and she will maybe have a good idea what might happen if she were in a relationship with you. 
then I would leave your wife, make that a friendly break and then move on and find someone you do love, 
you respect your wife and daughter first..........do not hurt her with this kind of betrayal, read this site and all the people who's lives have been torn apart by this very thinking......
think with your head this time


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

sinnister said:


> I don't think you're remembering the history of your relationship with your wife, quite the way you would if the other woman wasn't involved.


OP...read this over and over, man. This is what I was talking about when I said the chemicals in your brain. It is a given that a wayward spouse will rewrite the marital history. You very well could be guilty of this.

How ya doing today?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I give you credit for recognizing that what you are doing/starting to do with the OW isn't right. I give you credit for reaching out for some feedback about your problem and feelings.

You have many years ahead, but they can go quickly. If, in fact, you are not in a good marriage from your perspective, the sooner you sort that out, the better. This is true for both you and your W. She deserves to be able to make her own decisions about what she does with her life.

I hope you back off from the OW, take a breather and give yourself time to make whatever momentous decision you need to make about your marriage. It will be momentous for you, your W, and your child, whether you want to stay or go.


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## Cry For No One (Feb 7, 2013)

SaltInWound said:


> My question would be, what kind of a relationship (before marriage) did the OP feel this was? Dating a chick for quite a while has to mean something, unless this was a friends with benefits sort of thing. In which case I am curious to know how she viewed their pre-marriage relationship. Didn't he say he never loved her?


It was not friends with benefits. It was a committed relationship and we had been together a little over a year. We didn't live together. I moved 400 miles away and we had a LD relationship briefly. She couldn't stand being apart so she relocated down here. I told her she should get her own place but she didn't have a job when she first got here so we defacto lived together. Then it happened. I rarely if ever said I loved her before the baby, because I wouldn't have meant it. It was a point of contention in relationship.


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## Cry For No One (Feb 7, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> OP...read this over and over, man. This is what I was talking about when I said the chemicals in your brain. It is a given that a wayward spouse will rewrite the marital history. You very well could be guilty of this.
> 
> How ya doing today?


Still in a FOG. The OW is out of town for a while which is good. This is the ideal time to talk to my wife about counseling or separation without having the distraction of the OW.

I'm a going to maintain contact but cease pursuing the OW until after I sort things out with my wife. It's very likely once I tell her about my wife, we're through, but I'd still need to talk to her once I'm single. I'd have to know...


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## Thoreau (Nov 12, 2012)

Are you going to tell your wife that you are cheating?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Cry For No One said:


> It was not friends with benefits. It was a committed relationship and we had been together a little over a year. We didn't live together. I moved 400 miles away and we had a LD relationship briefly. She couldn't stand being apart so she relocated down here. I told her she should get her own place but she didn't have a job when she first got here so we defacto lived together. Then it happened. I rarely if ever said I loved her before the baby, because I wouldn't have meant it. It was a point of contention in relationship.


Maybe I am just really different, but I don't understand how you can be in a committed relationship with a woman for a year, and rarely told her you loved her. 

Oh wait. When you moved away did you intend to cut things off with her and she pushed for the relationship to continue and you caved when she had no place to live?


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Cry For No One said:


> Still in a FOG. The OW is out of town for a while which is good. This is the ideal time to talk to my wife about counseling or separation without having the distraction of the OW.
> 
> I'm a going to maintain contact but cease pursuing the OW until after I sort things out with my wife. It's very likely once I tell her about my wife, we're through, but I'd still need to talk to her once I'm single. I'd have to know...


I hear what you're saying but I'm gonna level with you and not let you get away with what you think is a good idea...

IF you remain in contact with the OW, you will taint any possible reconciliation with your wife. IF you remain in contact with the OW, you will _never_ wrap your head around what your marriage truly is. IF you remain in contact with the OW, you will absolutely create more inability to use good judgement in making any decision about you, your wife's and your child's future.

I know you'd still _need _to know...but do you really? That's your ego talking - the chemicals in your brain overriding reality.

I for one say it's not worth it. Your wife AND your child don't deserve you being in that mode of thinking right now. Later, after you BOTH make a decision about what to do...then you can cross that bridge. Right now, make a f'ng detour.


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## Cry For No One (Feb 7, 2013)

SaltInWound said:


> Maybe I am just really different, but I don't understand how you can be in a committed relationship with a woman for a year, and rarely told her you loved her.
> 
> Oh wait. When you moved away did you intend to cut things off with her and she pushed for the relationship to continue and you caved when she had no place to live?


Exactly.


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## Cry For No One (Feb 7, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> I hear what you're saying but I'm gonna level with you and not let you get away with what you think is a good idea...
> 
> IF you remain in contact with the OW, you will taint any possible reconciliation with your wife. IF you remain in contact with the OW, you will _never_ wrap your head around what your marriage truly is. IF you remain in contact with the OW, you will absolutely create more inability to use good judgement in making any decision about you, your wife's and your child's future.
> 
> ...


You're right but one thing I know is that I'm really honest with myself. I know what is right but also what I'll most likely do in spite of that.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Cry For No One said:


> I rarely if ever said I loved her before the baby, because I wouldn't have meant it. It was a point of contention in relationship.


You say "rarely" and "if ever". Which one is it? If you told her you loved her EVEN ONCE, if you did NOT love her, then you led her astry. 

And chances are, that she told YOU that she loves YOU. 

So IF she told you she loved you (...and women don't want to marry someone that they don't love...unless you're a millionaire, lol!) , did you tell her that you didn't feel the same way?

Geez...I'm getting flashbacks regarding my own recently ended relationship!

Vega


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Cry For No One said:


> You're right but one thing I know is that I'm really honest with myself. I know what is right but also what I'll most likely do in spite of that.


Well...I appreciate your honesty, then. Just make sure that you make your decision not only with yourself in mind, but your child. I wish you the best in talking with your wife. This sh-t ain't gonna be easy. 

Make sure that you tell her 100% of everything. Leave no detail hidden. Tell her everything from when you first met the OW until today. Don't think for a moment if you withhold _some_ of the stuff that you're sparing her feelings. You won't be. She needs the full and brutal truth so that SHE can make an informed decision as well.

Again...good luck, man.


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## Cry For No One (Feb 7, 2013)

I have a good friend who is a psychologist, not a marriage counselor, but he also recommends never seeking professional help from friends anyway. Nonetheless he offered that our Myers-Briggs personality types are totally incompatible. I am ENTP. My wife is ISFJ. He says S's are compatible with S's and N's with N's. And that 80% of N-S relationships end if divorce. he said it's not impossible but it's an uphill battle.


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## Thoreau (Nov 12, 2012)

How can you claim such self honesty yet be totally dishonest with everyone else in your life?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Cry For No One said:


> I have a good friend who is a psychologist, not a marriage counselor, but he also recommends never seeking professional help from friends anyway. Nonetheless he offered that our Myers-Briggs personality types are totally incompatible. I am ENTP. My wife is ISFJ. He says S's are compatible with S's and N's with N's. And that 80% of N-S relationships end if divorce. he said it's not impossible but it's an uphill battle.


I don't believe a word of this because it's all B.S. in there but it's not stated anywhere.


:rofl: C'mon!! THAT was funny!


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## Cry For No One (Feb 7, 2013)

Thoreau said:


> How can you claim such self honesty yet be totally dishonest with everyone else in your life?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Honest to myself I said.


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## Cry For No One (Feb 7, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> I don't believe a word of this because it's all B.S. in there but it's not stated anywhere.
> 
> 
> :rofl: C'mon!! THAT was funny!


???


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Cry For No One said:


> ???


Bull sh-t...

B.S.

Cynically saying that psychologists are full of BS in a sarcastic way.

Making a joke or making light of the situation. Levity if you will.

In other words I was trying to make you f'ng laugh!!!


In reality, I understand that your MB personality types are out of whack. I've read a ton about that this past year in figuring out my wife and I.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> Make sure that you tell her 100% of everything. Leave no detail hidden. Tell her everything from when you first met the OW until today. Don't think for a moment if you withhold _some_ of the stuff that you're sparing her feelings. You won't be. She needs the full and brutal truth so that SHE can make an informed decision as well.


I suggest honesty beginning with the start of their entire relationship. His definition of a committed relationship when they were dating, his reason for never saying "I love you", his frame of mind when he moved away and feelings about where they were in the relationship, his frame of mind when they were having this LD relationship, his frame of mind when she began talk of moving to be closer to him.....you get the idea.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

The Myers-Briggs analysis is intuitively pleasing but has no real formal legitimacy (its history and connection to the ideas of Carl Jung are famously questionable). The personality typing in it is relatively subjective to start & then you have the unavoidable fact that most of the world has not undergone Myers-Briggs analysis, so any statistics cited have to be taken with lots of qualifiers and a boulder of salt.

It could very well be true that you and your W are not suited for many reasons. Believing in your heart that you don't love her the way a husband should love a wife is reason enough to do the soul-searching that you are doing, imo.


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## Cry For No One (Feb 7, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> Bull sh-t...
> 
> B.S.
> 
> ...


Got it. Just the way you said it was like I didn't even have a friend or those weren't our MBTI types. I've been trying to "rationalize" making the marriage work for years and the MBTI was an attempt that didn't yield the results I wanted. I took the test as did my wife but when we got it back I only told her our types and downplayed the whole thing because the thick dossier from the lab basically said we were incompatible. That was dishonest. Should I have shown it to her then?


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Cry For No One said:


> Should I have shown it to her then?


Without question. Yes. It very well could have saved a whole lot of heart ache.


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## Cry For No One (Feb 7, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> The Myers-Briggs analysis is intuitively pleasing but has no real formal legitimacy (its history and connection to the ideas of Carl Jung are famously questionable). The personality typing in it is relatively subjective to start & then you have the unavoidable fact that most of the world has not undergone Myers-Briggs analysis, so any statistics cited have to be taken with lots of qualifiers and a boulder of salt.
> 
> It could very well be true that you and your W are not suited for many reasons. Believing in your heart that you don't love her the way a husband should love a wife is reason enough to do the soul-searching that you are doing, imo.


One of the biggest problems is people who don't know themselves or answer honestly. I know myself and answered honestly. My wife, I can't say for sure, but it was what I guessed.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Bull sh-t...
> 
> B.S.
> 
> ...


Wait....dont opposites attract? Thats what Paula Abdul said and if I have been led on all this time Im gonna be pissed!!


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

You're approaching candy fantasy land with that OW. This is quasi-EA territory.

All that giddy and excitement is ephemeral. It all fades. Your current wife loves you and you are going behind her back while still married to her to fulfill a "void" that developed because you made a "mistake"?

Please think rationally here. 

Did you know birth control also affects attraction. Look up the MHC factor.

What you need to focus on is not yourself and your selfishness. I can honestly say that I am heartfelt for what you are going through and could not imagine how that feels but you need to stop testing your boundaries or else you will ultimately fail.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

According to MB, my H is 'The Commander' and I am 'The Protector.' We've been together for 35 years for so many reasons, including, most of all, chemistry and love. Our 'types' would indicate, however, that we might not be compatible.

This stuff is not definitive. I would hang my hat on something else if I were you.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Cry For No One said:


> How can you speak in such absolutes like you know me better than myself??? You can't tell me that I do or don't love my wife. I've been doing a lot of reading and recognize the difference between romantic and committed love. I also know how romantic love messes with your brain at a chemical level. I am fully aware that at this moment my feelings for the OW are clouded by romantic love. But the fact remains I've always known, well before meeting the OW, that I've had committed love only for my wife but have never felt romantic love. I married her because she was pregnant. No other reason. I don't know how I can state that more plainly.
> 
> That said, I totally agree with your closing comment.


Don't misunderstand, I don't want to be right. I'd much rather be terribly mistaken.

But, I've been there. 

I knew I couldn't rebuttal what you were going to say and think when you read what I offered. Very predicatably it was going to be... "Don't tell me how I feel, You don't know me".

Fair enough. Time will tell.

I hope you will make a mental note of what I said though. 

I do want things to work out for you, I empathize with your situation. 

Again, the truth will set you free.

No more lies and deception. Tell the truth as you know it, without witholding, without qualifying and without rationalizations... You lay it out for everyone, let the cards fall where they may. 

Everyone, most importantly you deserve that.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Cry For No One said:


> One of the biggest problems is people who don't know themselves or answer honestly. I know myself and answered honestly. My wife, I can't say for sure, but it was what I guessed.


Thus far you have done what most loving WS (wayward spouses) have not done.

You, yet not loving your wife have not fully "cheated" (but on the brink), yet others while loving their wives have cheated on them. Love or not you've gone this far and even if you had "love", you will always be tempted.


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