# At the end of my rope



## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

I haven't posted here in awhile, but things have been pretty good. Big problem the last few months. Getting her to have sex is like pulling teeth. 

We used to have a great kinky sex life. Sometimes 3 times a day. 

Now we have been in this extended no-sex period. And its not just sex, she is simply not at all affectionate, no hug and kiss goodbye unless I ask or initiate it. 

She woke me up one day last week by pulling on my member and kissing my neck and then the kids all woke up and that was the end of that. She whispered to me, "I need laid". She did the same thing the next day, again interrupted by the kids waking up. 

I tried to initiate sex every day after that, at night (about 11pm) when I got home from work(and kids were sleeping), for about a week, and she wasn't having it. Always something. She says she is not in the mood after dealing with the kids all day. 

The mood. She also says we need to "build up to it" in terms of intimacy. It has to be spontaneous, it can't be planned, she says. Yet the only way to do it is to plan a period of time where we have a sitter or whatever. We did have a day like that and she still didn't want to do it because she said she felt pressured. 

I know by screen name is commited1, but I am near the end of my rope. I need female companionship and sex. Not like I just want it and can do without. No, I need it. 

Even if "it does happen" after weeks and weeks of trying, it is pretty much always in the dark, in the same position with no foreplay other than kissing and me caressing her. Thats great sometimes. Sometimes though I really want to be touched, want to do other things. 

If I knew the price of having kids was NO SEX EVER except for really bad sex and only very very very rarely, I really would have chosen to not have kids. Its ruined my life. 

I really hate to say this, I feel guilty for saying it but honestly right now I think I'd rather be single and getting laid as much as I want. 

Why is it that when you are single with absolutely no commitment to a woman that she will do anything you want her to as much as you want her to do it. But the more of a commitment you make, the more you give her, the less she gives you of what you want. 

Its a damn sickening cruel joke played on men. Literally torture. 

I have no desire to "cheat of my wife" but really, what is here to cheat on. Its not a matter of having sex with someone other than one person I promised to only have sex with. Its having sex period, with anyone. Anyone. If we ever had sex I guess if I went and did it with another woman then it would be cheating, but we don't even have sex so how can it be cheating?


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

Well first off, sit her down and have a good talk with her. You need and deserve sex and the spontaneous bit is a bull**** excuse. 

Really, she knew damn well when she was dating you or if she thought she was going to have sex with you - I'm sure she dressed, groomed herself accordingly etc... to get ready for you too - is that not planning sex?

Something else is going on. Are you helping with the kids, giving her breaks so that she can rest and have time for you? Tell her you want two to three intimate nights a week, either after the kids go to bed, or get a sitter. Those nights don't have to be all about sex - but if it leads to that great!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Committed1: 

Obviously you need to let her know HOW this is affecting you. Deeply and honestly. Any reason you have not layed this at her feet by now? 

Do you fear her reaction to your needs? 

Some women can handle the truth, it may wake them up, even 
light a fire under them as to not loose you or have you stray out of pure frustration. 

Others might never let you live it down, give you a sermon, call you a sex hound, and take it oh so personal that you could even get upset, or dare think of yourself over the children. 

But never the less, this is how you feel, it needs to be shared before resentment builds a wall. Just be sure to ask her WHat YOU can do to help her in whatever she feels is lacking in the relationship as well, if anything. Be available & open to anything she is asking - and hopefully it is NOT still putting off the love making ! 

Kids are very very important, but if Mom & Dad aren't happy, they FEEL this, it clouds their own judgement on Marraige itself. Better to see the Love between Mom & Dad, even if it means closing the bedroom door and saying "We need an hour" - GO PLAY!!!! We have a toddler not in school yet, many times when the others aren't home, we get him all set up to watch a DVD by himself, get him some crackers, cheese, snacks, a cover, some toys, we lock the gate so he can not come upstairs but we can hear him down there - just so we can have "our alone time". And we use the older ones to watch him when they are home. 

I am sure THEY know what we are doing, and that is just fine -makes us be better parents, more patient, more attentive to thier needs - when we come out of that bedroom.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

You're not listening to her. I understand you are climbing the walls, but you have to learn to listen. Pressure is the biggest turnoff for a woman. Expectation when the opportunity does present itself is still pressure. I have not written any books on this subject. Haven't even read any, but I know a woman needs to feel desired. The pressure that you apply is the same that you express here in your post. That is not desire. That is lust and just wanting/needing to screw. She doesn't like that. She's not made like you. Feeling desired is not primal, it's emotional. She needs to feel you want HER, not that you simply want sex, which as you indicate you can get from someone else. Get the difference? But that's you, you just want sex and she is only a variable in the other half of your equation. That's how you make her feel, which is a turnoff. Please don't write back and tell me I'm wrong, what a sensitive and affectionate man you are, and all that jazz. I didn't write your post that I'm going by. You wrote it. But again, I understand you're climbing the walls.

You're also not listening when she says you need to build up to it. Women like to be made love to before being made love to. 

And try to listen and understand when she tells you about dealing with the kids all day. That's a big turnoff too. 

You have been very, very patient but not understanding at all because you don't understand women. She is in no mood for loving-making to be a big production because you haven't gotten her in the mood. You've been expecting/pressuring her and even complain here about the quality of the sex that you do get. I'm not saying that how women are is right and you are wrong. I'm just stating the fact that men and women are most often very different with different needs. I can sympathize with you and agree that she should effort toward more frequent sessions and should also participate in the big productions once in a while.

This movie will help you tremendously. Rent it. Watch it. Follow the principles. You can thank me later.


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

HappyHer said:


> Well first off, sit her down and have a good talk with her. You need and deserve sex and the spontaneous bit is a bull**** excuse.
> 
> Really, she knew damn well when she was dating you or if she thought she was going to have sex with you - I'm sure she dressed, groomed herself accordingly etc... to get ready for you too - is that not planning sex?
> 
> Something else is going on. Are you helping with the kids, giving her breaks so that she can rest and have time for you? Tell her you want two to three intimate nights a week, either after the kids go to bed, or get a sitter. Those nights don't have to be all about sex - but if it leads to that great!


Thank you for the support. I am not without my faults. I am going to try a few things that I know she wants me to do but I have not done (around the house, helping more with the kids, changing some habits etc) and I'll see if that helps.


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Committed1:
> 
> Obviously you need to let her know HOW this is affecting you. Deeply and honestly. Any reason you have not layed this at her feet by now?
> 
> ...


I have laid it at her feet and she pretty much rejects how I feel. Its all about her. Really. And it is almost entirely random and arbitrary and absolutely unpredictable. We do it at her whim, period. I am going to try everything I can and see if it helps. Thank you.


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

Susan2010 said:


> You're not listening to her. I understand you are climbing the walls, but you have to learn to listen. Pressure is the biggest turnoff for a woman. Expectation when the opportunity does present itself is still pressure. I have not written any books on this subject. Haven't even read any, but I know a woman needs to feel desired. The pressure that you apply is the same that you express here in your post. That is not desire. That is lust and just wanting/needing to screw. She doesn't like that. She's not made like you. Feeling desired is not primal, it's emotional. She needs to feel you want HER, not that you simply want sex, which as you indicate you can get from someone else. Get the difference? But that's you, you just want sex and she is only a variable in the other half of your equation. That's how you make her feel, which is a turnoff. Please don't write back and tell me I'm wrong, what a sensitive and affectionate man you are, and all that jazz. I didn't write your post that I'm going by. You wrote it. But again, I understand you're climbing the walls.
> 
> You're also not listening when she says you need to build up to it. Women like to be made love to before being made love to.
> 
> ...


You know, just now she asked me to run and refill her coffee for her and I took her cup and just stood there for a moment and gazed at her with what I thought was a neutral/affectionate look. She asked why I was staring at her and in an attempt to flirt I told her I was trying to connect with her through telepathy and if she was getting the message. She said, "Ya, your thinking you wanna f me" and she didn't say it in a nice way. So regardless of what I do, she really thinks all I want is sex. 

The thing that kills me is that it really feels like I am the victim of false advertisement. When her and I first started to see each other years ago, I had what I thought was the wisdom to tell her how I felt about things like this, I said: "I really think romance in a relationship has its high points and low points. But one thing that remains constant for me is my sex drive, and I really want to be with someone who is the same way".

She agreed with me emphatically, even stating..."I also have a high sex drive and when romance is high its nice to make love, but when romance is low its good have a primal f*k with your partner. In fact, being monogamous is a great way to be constantly sexually satisfied, even sometimes without the romance, and not feel guilty about it".

Well I thought I hit the jackpot! And so things were for many years, but with each kid her sex drive took more of a dive. 

I listen. I listen and try to spend time with her "I'm tired, you get home from work too late"...try to be romantic by being very gently flirty, "your just horny"....try to do everything for her including giving her breaks from watching the kids, "Why are you doing this stuff for me, what do you want, you probably just want laid". I don't ever complain about not enough sex. I didn't even mention sex or try to initiate it for a couple weeks because I know that when I initiate it she feels pressure and if I don't initiate it, she feels unwanted. So I don't initiate and then she plays with my genitals and whispers in my ear that she needs laid. So for the next few days I try to initiate with no luck. wtf? 

I am almost 40 years old and am actually in my prime. I never looked this good or was this fit. I don't have some big fat stomach. I am good looking, clean cut, muscular and well-endowed. That isn't going to last forever. I got a good 10 years of being in my prime and thats it, down hill after that, viagraville. I HATE the fact that I can't enjoy the simple awesome pleasures that life has to offer while I am still able to enjoy them. She is 10 years younger than me. By the time our kids are grown I'll be an old fart. 

So I am at the end of my rope. 

I am going to totally play it her way, not do the things she says annoy her, make an honest attempt to connect with her emotionally and just suffer through the abstinence in the mean time. 

If that doesn't work, I will go elsewhere to enjoy the simple pleasures of life while I still am able. I won't leave her and I'll be here for her the whole time and will be happy to stop whatever it is I would be doing if she again was willing to be my mate again. 

I have needs also, and my life has value. I won't be sucked down the emotional toilet of anyone's narcissistic low-self esteem and won't allow the quality of my life to suffer immensely because someone else can't get over their issues regardless of how hard I tried to help them. 



> This movie will help you tremendously. Rent it. Watch it. Follow the principles. You can thank me later.


I will rent and watch this, thank you for the suggestion and the advice here. It is sincerely appreciated even if I seem a little angry.


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

Not to keep ranting on but venting helps...I am really resenting her and my family for this. I don't even want to look at her. There is the ebb and flow of stuff between us and when she is being a jerk, I don't really feel like kissing her butt. But that is what it takes. Constant butt kissing and giving her what she wants. 

btw ladies, much of the time this is why men cheat. Before there is a relationship one is often given very very false ideas of who the person actually is that they are dating. Sex? No problem. Sex all the time, constantly, at the drop of a hat. Then after a few years (especially married with kids) it stops. We are still the same except now we are giving all of the money we make to our family which we should be doing. 

But what once happened so frequently and simply now requires this long complex mating ritual that can last days and days. My wife is older and her body is changing. I don't care. She is still incredibly hot to me. I let her know how hot she is to me (oh you just want sex).

Guess what? I always just wanted sex, so what? Why is just wanting sex when you first meet different than just wanting sex after 7 years? 

I hate that. The whole thing. The "I am really sexual to, look how sexual I am, I will always be this way, I just want sex too, with someone I love, lets go do it now wheeee", and then once the hooks are in and you CAN'T be with another woman it turns to, "You
just want sex". What? We have 4 kids together and I work my ass off to pay the bills, I don't go out with friends, I do nothing but work and hang out with my family and be a dad. I just want sex? If I just wanted sex what the f*k makes you think I didn't dump your ass after a few months and move on to a new piece???????? How can it be proven any more than years of faithful commitment, and pretty much giving up your entire life for her and your family, that I want more than sex??? 

I don't get it. 

I always knew someday I would have a family and be locked into a job and be with the same woman for the rest of my life. Everyone said, "No, don't do that, you'll never have sex again unless you jump through all kinds of hoops, once you have a couple kids". Did I listen? No. "My wife is different, she is more like me, thats why we are so compatible!" How stupid could I be? 

This is why guys are afraid of commitment. Read that again. *This is why guys DO NOT WANT TO COMMIT.* 

This is why men tend to swing from one relationship to another and get called things like players and dogs. Its not because they are heartless pricks. Its because they are not ready to fkn die yet.


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

You sound very angry and that anger is probably totally coming through with all of your "efforts". Not a big turn on.

As a couples coach, I get JUST as many women complaining about lack of sex as I do from the men. It's just not talked about as much due to stereotypical expectations.

You hit the nail on the head when you said there are things she needs from you that you had not been doing. Helping around the house and with the kids - especially four of them is HUGE. Your wife probably has a heap of resentment towards you for feeling left alone in those areas.

When you turn your wife into the HOUSE WIFE and DOMINANT parent, meaning that she is the one that has the bulk of the responsibility in those areas of THE LIFE YOU SHARE TOGETHER, then something has to give, and typically that something is sex. She is making love to the home and to the kids and there is nothing left over for you and you are really both to blame for that.

She made the choice to marry you, have children, and have a home. She probably fell right into being the major care taker of that life in regard to caring for the children and home, she is to blame for that as well, but she's not going to see that if you tell her that. She failed to ask for more help, and feels abandoned that you allowed her to take over so much of THE LIFE YOU SHARE TOGETHER, so there is resentment in that area. If she did ask for more help and you didn't give it to her, then the resentment is going to be even more double.

Your wife needs some time to start feeling more like a woman and less like a housefrau and MOM all the time. Pretty hard with Mom's Day coming up for sure, but this is what needs to happen. She needs to see that you are a completely invested partner in THE LIFE YOU SHARE TOGETHER. Right now she doesn't trust that you are, only that you are doing it for sex. Can you honestly blame her for that lack of trust? She probably thinks as soon as she "gives it up" that everything will go back to the status quo, which she is obviously not satisfied with at present.

My suggestion is to apologize to her for abandoning her with all those extra responsibilities and let her know you want to be a complete partner in THE LIFE YOU SHARE TOGETHER. That you miss the sex and want it back, but that it's about sharing more than that. Write her a letter and make some sort of gesture to help commemorate that and then do what you say you are going to do. Think about the man she fell in love with and pursue her as that man while you also share in the duties of THE LIFE YOU SHARE TOGETHER. Things should naturally start to get better. 

If, after a reasonable amount of time they don't - then it's time for some serious talking and making decisions. But, for the sake of all involved, make sure you know you haven't taken her for granted in any aspect and that you have been a completely invested partner to her in all ways. Let the anger go and give it everything you have. Then, and only then, start to look at ultimatums.


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## mike1 (Jun 15, 2009)

Commmited1 - I could have wrote this post many times! I know exactly how you're feeling, brother. 

We've never had a kinky sex life but there was a time when we were have a LOT more sex (i.e. 3 times a week - that was a lot for us). Now we're down to 2-3 times a month. And I've felt and still feel extreme anger like you about what I could call a cruel joke or manipulation like you were talking about it. We men get married to our wives because we love them, we love having sex with them and we want that life to continue. I couldn't agree more that it seems like BS that after you get married and especially after kids you, the husband, are on the bottom of the priority list if you're there at all sometimes. The dogs get more attention then me sometimes. After we had our first child I was really reluctant to have a 2nd baby. I saw that it impacted our relationship. Not just sexually but our relationship in general. I was concerned about having # 2 but we did. And the affects of the 2nd one were 10x worse then the first. I love my kids more then anything and couldn't imagine my life without them now but in many ways they did ruin my relationship with my wife. 

I'm not trying to fan the flames but let you know that you're far from alone. I also couldn't agree more about the whole cheating thing. In a lot of situations I'm sure this is the case for a lot of men. We get so fed up, so angry and resentful and so desperate for sex that we can't take it and if an opportunity presents itself to cheat then we take it. Eventually it can get so bad that the husband may seek it out to get some release. And this probably isn't a popular statement but I think that the blame for the cheating falls far more on the wife then the husband. Wives have the power to make us satisfied (or not). they hold all the cards and fully expect us to become celibate when they decide making their husbands happy isn't important. 

I'm not saying cheating is right, it's not and shouldn't be done but there are two sides to everything. 

It sounds like your wife is reacting to the pressure like my wife does. My wife knows that I want sex all the times so a lot of time if I'm doing something nice for her she'll question my motivation. The fact is a lot of the motivation for me to do things for her is based on wanting sex. If I didn't want sex ever I would be a hell of a lot more selfish. I've found that there isn't a magic formula, that either she wants sex or doesn't. It has little if anything to do with her day. There are days where she has crazy stressful bad days and I wouldn't think in a million years she'd have any thoughts about sex (which is usually the case) but we'll end up having great sex at the end of the day. Then other days where she's had a massage and a relaxing day out with her girlfriends and just as peaceful as you can imagine, a day all for her basically. A day where you would think she'd be stress free and wanting sex - she doesn't want anything to do with it. 

It doesn't matter how much I do or not do for her it doesn't help. The best I've been able to do is get to a point where she thinks that I just do a lot of nice things and it's not all about getting her to have sex with me. But the pressure is a killer for sure. If she feels the pressure it's going to be a turn off it seems. I try to be a good, considerate husband. I give my wife some time for herself regularly and help with the kids and housework every day. But I've also seen that it can make it better for both of us if I do other things for myself that make me happy (i.e. go out with a friend for a drink or play golf, etc). It seems sometimes the less I'm focused on trying to get her to have sex with me the more easier it becomes. 

For me personally I've seen too many of my friends get divorced. In some ways they seem liberated but mostly it's just sad. Living alone in an apartment, seeing there kids on the weekends. Sure they've gotten laid here and there but that is not the life I want. I wish I had more affection and sex from my wife. Sometimes it drives me literally crazy I feel so horny; so crazy sometimes that I KNOW that if I had an opportunity to have sex with someone else I would. I just hope I don't have an opportunity when I'm in one of those moments. But the fact is I love my kids so much I can't imagine not waking up to see them every day.


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## rsharpe (Apr 27, 2010)

omg…Committed1 you have described my exact life over the last 23 years. All of it, right down to the 4 kids…very eerie. We never went out, she barely remembered our anniversary and she was always accusing me of cheating if I wasn’t home exactly when I said I was going to be. Different than you though is that I did leave, 8 years ago. The day I left was the day after she had forgotten our anniversary for the 6th year in a row. Interestingly, she asked me to leave, to take some time to think about our relationship, but when she realized I was gone she begged me to come back. Under intense pressure from my family, I reluctantly agreed to go to marriage counseling with her. Honestly, it was OK as far as it went, but when my wife found out I had been seeing someone while we had been separated, it became all about my supposed “infidelity” and we never really got to the root of the issues that had forced us apart in the first place. During the time I was gone, the kids were devastated and I felt horribly guilty - I love my kids very much and never want to cause them pain or sadness. In the end, we agreed to reconcile after about 9 months and I moved back in. 

As part of our counseling, we had set out a series of needs that we expected from each other. Hers were justified – I had not been the best at helping with the housework or with the kids, but I swore to do better for the sake of our marriage. Mine were that I wanted her to be more engaged in our relationship – more dates, start making the relationship a priority, and more intimacy (physical as well as emotional). She agreed. After agreeing to reconcile, she improved – for a little while. 

But it didn’t last. From the day I moved back in, I kept my promise – I began doing the laundry, cooking dinner, doing the dishes, helping with the kids, giving her time to herself away from the kids (shopping with her sister, time to spend with her grandparents, weekends away to visit her dad in FL, etc.). She didn’t keep hers. After about 12 months, she began to pull away, back to not wanting to go out on dates (“we can’t afford that”, “I’m not comfortable leaving the kids with a babysitter”), not wanting sex (too tired, “I’m sorry – I promise I’ll make it up to you tomorrow night” and then be asleep by 9:00 pm the next night, “not now – the kids are awake”, “you are obsessed with sex”, etc.). Our sex life has trickled down to once every 6-8 weeks at best. I went out of my way to set up “date nights” at the house - making a special dinner, getting a bottle of wine, putting the kids to bed, getting a dvd for us to watch. She’d eat the dinner, drink the wine, then fall asleep 10 mins into the movie. She barely acknowledges my contributions to the family, rarely if ever compliments me (like you I have kept myself in good shape and try to dress well) doesn’t touch me (no hugs, no kisses, no hand on the shoulder, no arm around the waist) and laughs at me when I suggest anything remotely intimate.

The point of this is that I know exactly how you feel Committed1. I feel betrayed, lied to and manipulated. I’ve spent the last eight yrs. living up to the promise I made and she has just walked away. I’ve tried to talk to her many many times – her most recent response is “I’m not sure how I feel. I love you I’m just not sure I’m in love with you” and we are now back to her accusing me of cheating on her. I have not cheated but I, like you, am at the end of my rope. I’m tired of being rejected and made to feel like I don’t matter. I crave someone who will make me feel special. When I came back, I swore to myself that I would not cheat but rather try and talk to her when things began to get out of control again. But she has no interest in a relationship with me. I'm beginning to believe that divorce is the only answer and that she actually subconsciously wants it, but doesn't have the courage to admit that she doesn't love me.


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## Crypsys (Apr 22, 2010)

Commited1 said:


> btw ladies, much of the time this is why men cheat. Before there is a relationship one is often given very very false ideas of who the person actually is that they are dating. Sex? No problem. Sex all the time, constantly, at the drop of a hat. Then after a few years (especially married with kids) it stops. We are still the same except now we are giving all of the money we make to our family which we should be doing.


It's a 2 way street Commited1. It's hard for any of us to see our own part we play in these situations. Women are tied to sex very, very emotionally. Whenever my wife and I had issues with the marriage bed we could generally always find a reason that both of us had played. The most recent instance was she was really, really stressed from life. I did all of the "normal" things take care of kids, housework, etc. But that still didn't help. What I failed to see the whole time was she wanted me to physically and emotionally support her more. Lo and behold once I got that into my thick head, things turned around. 

But IMO, there is never a proper or okay reason to ever cheat on anyone. If it's that bad that your considering cheating first try and work it out. If that doesn't work, then the relationship should be ended. Cheating should never be on the table.



Commited1 said:


> Guess what? I always just wanted sex, so what? Why is just wanting sex when you first meet different than just wanting sex after 7 years?


Again, for most women sex is emotions. When you first meet emotions are running strong, hot and heavy. A womans sex drive will then respond. When a relationship gets stagnant, those emotions start to wayne. When they do, a womans sex drive goes into the toilet. We guys have it easier, we just need to see them. They need to FEEL us. Just as a wife needs to stay visually appealing for a husband. That husband needs to work to stay emotionally appealing. You need to find what emotional component she is missing and fill that bucket to the brim. Sex will turn around if there is nothing physically or chemically wrong with her. Its what I always like to say "Nature vs Nuture" that defines the sexual needs and differences between the sexes very simply.



Commited1 said:


> We have 4 kids together and I work my ass off to pay the bills, I don't go out with friends, I do nothing but work and hang out with my family and be a dad. I just want sex? If I just wanted sex what the f*k makes you think I didn't dump your ass after a few months and move on to a new piece????????


Do you ever wonder if she may think the same thing from an emotional standpoint? I doubt she's withholding sex on purpose (this assumption is only made by reading your post and inferring on my part). But if she's not feeling you, that drive is just not going to be there.



Commited1 said:


> I always knew someday I would have a family and be locked into a job and be with the same woman for the rest of my life. Everyone said, "No, don't do that, you'll never have sex again unless you jump through all kinds of hoops, once you have a couple kids". Did I listen? No. "My wife is different, she is more like me, thats why we are so compatible!" How stupid could I be?


Commited1, I know your really upset right now. But sit, breathe and think for a minute rationally. Do you regret having your children? I doubt it. Instead of spending time getting angry and frustrated take some time to try and really understand what it is your wife needs you to do to re-ignite the passion. I know right now you are probably thinking "Shut the F* up Crypsys. Why should I be doing all of the work for this!?!?!?". I don't have a good answer to that Commited1 other than it's worked for me an others...




Commited1 said:


> This is why guys are afraid of commitment. Read that again. *This is why guys DO NOT WANT TO COMMIT.*


Because it's hard. And humans by default try and avoid anything hard and take the easy route. Women are a different animal than us and we just cant do exactly what we want, when we want and still have a relationship. But, here is the kicker. Men in committed happy relationships generally live longer and have a higher happiness to their life. It's because together we can both help each other out in life. We can give women things other women are incapable of giving. And our ladies can give us things other men cannot give. 




Commited1 said:


> This is why men tend to swing from one relationship to another and get called things like players and dogs. Its not because they are heartless pricks. Its because they are not ready to fkn die yet.


Funny, when I was single and living it up at the time I thought it was the best thing in the world! But, looking back on those times now I see how shallow and unfulfilling that life is. 

It's good to vent commited1, we need times to just get out that frustration, rage and hurt. But, we eventually have to turn that anger into a more constructive emotion (something women are generally worlds better at then us). You have a choice man. Either stay the cuckhold, frustrated husband or work your butt off to figure out what you can do to give your wife those feelings.


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## lovelieswithin (Apr 29, 2010)

Gotta agree... we women sense male resentment and frustration. You have every right to be annoyed but bottom line is grumpy men don't get laid. Women with poor self esteem dont give out anything either. The best gift you could give her right now is teamwork and a new sense of patience. She needs help for her aging issues, you need time and an outlet to blow off resentments, and you both need a way to communicate lovingly about why sex isnt happening and get your problems with one another onto the table so a list can be made of what needs addressing asap. 
Dont think all women are this way... I am the starved one in my marriage and I work my ass off in 2 jobs!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This is when having balls makes all the difference. This is when you calmly explain what is acceptable to you and what isn't. And then you stick to that. 

My wife NEVER pulled this bullsheet with me. NEVER. She would say that:
1. I made her my highest priority and in return she made me her second highest priority (the kids come first and I am fine with that)
2. Sexual fidelity is a huge sacrifice, and if you demand that sacrifice from your partner you YOURSELF accept responsibility for keeping them happy in bed





Commited1 said:


> Not to keep ranting on but venting helps...I am really resenting her and my family for this. I don't even want to look at her. There is the ebb and flow of stuff between us and when she is being a jerk, I don't really feel like kissing her butt. But that is what it takes. Constant butt kissing and giving her what she wants.
> 
> btw ladies, much of the time this is why men cheat. Before there is a relationship one is often given very very false ideas of who the person actually is that they are dating. Sex? No problem. Sex all the time, constantly, at the drop of a hat. Then after a few years (especially married with kids) it stops. We are still the same except now we are giving all of the money we make to our family which we should be doing.
> 
> ...


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

HappyHer said:


> You sound very angry and that anger is probably totally coming through with all of your "efforts". Not a big turn on.
> 
> As a couples coach, I get JUST as many women complaining about lack of sex as I do from the men. It's just not talked about as much due to stereotypical expectations.
> 
> ...


Happy Her- thank you, great advice. Yes I am angry, we are both angry. I needed to bluntly vent what I have so far here and get an honest intelligent response from a detached third party. 

We go in cycles and have been through/tried much of what you said. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Normally the more I do, the more interest I take in her non-mom things, the more we talk and interact as individuals the more sex there is. But there is ALWAYS some sex. The past x amount of time there has been zero sex which is intolerable. 

I have put allot of thought into this, and have realized something. She just got back on the pill. We had sex like mad dogs (with all other things being the same) and had to back off each other a little until she was back on the pill because we DO NOT WANT ANOTHER CHILD. She would tease and play and do all this horny stuff and whisper in my ear, "you better pick up my pills from the pharmacy". I did and then she would do the same thing with this promise that after x amount of time when the pill kicked it we could go at it again. 

The problem is, and I should have seen this coming, she has to take a certain kind of birth control due some medical issues, and the kind she takes KILLS her sex drive. Its happened 3 times before (one for each kid). 

I have to take most of your advice and try to take the load off her a bit more and continue to focus specially on her as an individual. 

The part about being the man she fell in love with to start, I really never ceased being that man. I am being honest when I say that. The rest of it I need to work on and so does she. 

I love her fiercely and honestly do not want to go to anyone else. Just when I am denied the simple pleasure of being alive....it drives me mad with lust. I only want to _live_. A big part of that now is helping her more. She has a really hard time articulating what she really wants, but I gather she wants me to mature into more of an equal parent.


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

mike1 said:


> Commmited1 - I could have wrote this post many times! I know exactly how you're feeling, brother.
> 
> We've never had a kinky sex life but there was a time when we were have a LOT more sex (i.e. 3 times a week - that was a lot for us). Now we're down to 2-3 times a month. And I've felt and still feel extreme anger like you about what I could call a cruel joke or manipulation like you were talking about it. We men get married to our wives because we love them, we love having sex with them and we want that life to continue. I couldn't agree more that it seems like BS that after you get married and especially after kids you, the husband, are on the bottom of the priority list if you're there at all sometimes. The dogs get more attention then me sometimes. After we had our first child I was really reluctant to have a 2nd baby. I saw that it impacted our relationship. Not just sexually but our relationship in general. I was concerned about having # 2 but we did. And the affects of the 2nd one were 10x worse then the first. I love my kids more then anything and couldn't imagine my life without them now but in many ways they did ruin my relationship with my wife.
> 
> ...


I certainly wouldn't give up my kids for anything either and I have even broached the subject of chemical castration with my wife, so I just don't have the need. She says no way to that one. 

The thing is we do have really intense periods of horniness and kinkyness and the worst it normally gets is a few times a month. But a whole month without any sex is driving me crazy. 

She is a huge huge tease, my wife, and I think that is part of the anger for me. As I write this and from when I started writing the first post she has sent me four really provocative videos over im. 

Being forced to masturbate, and our bed being right next to my computer desk (like literally the desk is against her side of the bed) I try to hide what I am doing while she 'sleeps'. Then I look over at her and see her legs spread and her hand beneath the covers and her facing me with her eyes closed and her mouth open. Ya. But if I bring it up she says she doesn't know what I am talking about. I told her if she keeps it up shes going to wake up with a mouthful of something and she just hits me and says "don't you dare". I guess she hears the porn sounds and subconsciously knows what I am doing and something goes on in there...I dunno.

I have had opportunities to be with other women. I am in a position to be with quite a few. I do the right thing though, consistently.


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

rsharpe said:


> omg…Committed1 you have described my exact life over the last 23 years. All of it, right down to the 4 kids…very eerie. We never went out, she barely remembered our anniversary and she was always accusing me of cheating if I wasn’t home exactly when I said I was going to be. Different than you though is that I did leave, 8 years ago. The day I left was the day after she had forgotten our anniversary for the 6th year in a row. Interestingly, she asked me to leave, to take some time to think about our relationship, but when she realized I was gone she begged me to come back. Under intense pressure from my family, I reluctantly agreed to go to marriage counseling with her. Honestly, it was OK as far as it went, but when my wife found out I had been seeing someone while we had been separated, it became all about my supposed “infidelity” and we never really got to the root of the issues that had forced us apart in the first place. During the time I was gone, the kids were devastated and I felt horribly guilty - I love my kids very much and never want to cause them pain or sadness. In the end, we agreed to reconcile after about 9 months and I moved back in.
> 
> As part of our counseling, we had set out a series of needs that we expected from each other. Hers were justified – I had not been the best at helping with the housework or with the kids, but I swore to do better for the sake of our marriage. Mine were that I wanted her to be more engaged in our relationship – more dates, start making the relationship a priority, and more intimacy (physical as well as emotional). She agreed. After agreeing to reconcile, she improved – for a little while.
> 
> ...


Wow. The lack of physical contact really really hurts. Sex is huge, but seeing the waist and not be able to put your arms around it, the hand and not being able to hold it, the hair and not being able to run your fingers through it. I think that is what kills me too, on top of everything else. I can't go a few days without that stuff. Ever run into a girl you don't really know but in her way she is gorgeous and she has that longing look in her eyes and the really feminine form and you know after a few minutes of talking to her, that hand wants to be held, that cheek brushed, that supple body held close. And you just can't do it, just can't enjoy that fleeting pleasure that our short short lives have to offer because you made a commitment to someone that utterly rejects your affection. That really is what kills me. 

I am lucky in that my wife, even without the sex for a week or so, will still have occasional spurts of affection where she will silently hold me close to her for a few moments, ask me to brush her hair, or rub my shoulders after work. When I don't get even that for a few days is when I really start looking at other women. And not even for sex, just to hold hands and talk, or walk arm in arm. They will stand close at work, like pointing something to them on a chart on the wall and they nestle in against your chest and you can smell their hair and feel their warmth...but you back away out of loyalty and leave them alone there, looking away from your eyes as they listen. That is the hardest part. 

Now that my wife is coming back around with the affection, I feel better. More like I have a mate.

I feel for you man, and I wish I had some kind of answer. The only thing I can say is to do right by your kids and your commitment but realize also that your life is very short and every moment that passes is one less that you have to _live_. Same for her, and that is something she needs to think about too. I think allot of this is chemical/hormonal. That is one place to look for sure. Sometimes people really can't help the way they feel and what their needs are at a time, doesn't mean they are happy or feeling fulfilled either.


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

gonna reply to the rest of these in a thoughtful way the next chance I get, I don't like to rush through and just respond quickly without carefully going over everything someone has said.


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

Commited1 said:


> Happy Her- thank you, great advice. Yes I am angry, we are both angry. I needed to bluntly vent what I have so far here and get an honest intelligent response from a detached third party.
> 
> We go in cycles and have been through/tried much of what you said. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Normally the more I do, the more interest I take in her non-mom things, the more we talk and interact as individuals the more sex there is. But there is ALWAYS some sex. The past x amount of time there has been zero sex which is intolerable.
> 
> ...


You're welcome. I'm so happy you are pursuing counseling. it will help to talk things out with a third party present and get insight. I hope you find the perfect fit for you without too many troubles. My husband and I went through three before we found an absolute Angel, she actually solved issues, not worried about keeping us coming back, which is exactly what I try to do with the couples I work with. Life's too short to just talk and not take action.

Hang in there, I think you have your finger on some very important points and that your wife will respond to you in positive ways. That is all great news.


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

An update. We ended up having sex a few days ago. Don't read any further if you don't want cause I'm going to be direct. 

She finally initiated sex but it was some pretty awkward sex. I am sure I am terrible for thinking that, but it was. Like sex with someone your not really in tune with. The end of it for me pretty much was when she aid she was getting weird images in her head and I asked her what she was talking about. 

Were were engaged in slow coitus and I was kissing/sucking her breasts (which she normally loves), when she said to stop it she is getting weird images. She said she had flashes in her head of "babies and stuff". This lead to a conversation which she said after dealing with the kids all day she really does not want affectionate sex she wants be be "f___ed in a rough masculine way" because she is not around a man all day when I am at work. 

Ok I can understand that. I don't really like it because in my job I am definitely in a very dominate masculine role which often includes rough physical contact with people. I get enough of that at work, I don't want to have sex that way. Sometimes rough sex is fun but honestly I prefer slow affectionate sex. I want to be tender at home, it keeps me feeling like a human being to be able to shed a hard exterior at work and be sensitive at home. 

We are on totally different pages with totally different needs her and I. We're working on it.


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

Good for her for initiating. It shows she is a willing partner. Now, you just need to work it out where you both feel that your needs are being fulfilled!

She was open and honest about her feelings and that is a great start. I'm sure she would prefer to not be struggling with those, but she is willing to share her deeper feelings with you and that is extremely important even if it's not something you are both happy with, at least you know where some work needs to be done.

My suggestion is to look at all the options and figure out what you might both be willing to try in order for you both to have the ultimate enjoyment out of your time together. There is a lot more to sex than just rough or lovemaking styles. So, start exploring and find out what works, what doesn't work. You can also rate different things as "okay sometimes" - "LOVED IT, let's do it more" and "This sucked, so let's move on to the next idea". 

Keep a sense of humor and adventure about you and don't worry if something doesn't work, there are bound to be some middle ground that you'll both like once you find it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Committed1,

This is a true breakthrough. Sorry buddy but you now get to join a long, long list of guys who have wives who like a dominant and rough sexual connection. I think as much as half the female population is turned on by this. 

So here is the plain and simple deal. The high drive spouse - that would be you (and it sure as hell is me in my house) - is abso***inlutely obligated to accommodate the low drive spouse. 

You don't have to make excuses - about how your job is a rough and tumble place. Don't get me wrong - I believe you. But be honest here. Ever since we were 2 years old the rules were - be polite, gentle and respectful to women. They are smaller, they have less muscle mass. Being rough with a woman is something that only bullies and azzholes do. And your wife - hell you love your wife - sex is just one more way to be nice to her while she is nice to you. 

I was stunned the first time my wife told me about the whole rough sex thing. Shocked. Then I started remembering a few girlfriends who had wanted the same thing - but only hinted at it and there I was bumbling along in my clueless way. 

Thing is I REALLY love my wife. So I overcame 30+ years of cultural conditioning and quickly learned how to do what she wanted. And she didn't want it EVERY time - but more than half. And I have learned to like it because SHE likes it. 

You do not have to understand this - though there is a very solid evolutionary explanation for it - but the typical female circuit board is wired to be aroused by a certain pattern of male behavior. The further you deviate from THAT pattern the more likely you are to have a partner who likes you - hell loves you as their best friend forever BFF - but does NOT want to mate with you. I call this the "friendzoned husband". Those guys come on here every day - losing their minds from sexual frustration. 




Commited1 said:


> An update. We ended up having sex a few days ago. Don't read any further if you don't want cause I'm going to be direct.
> 
> She finally initiated sex but it was some pretty awkward sex. I am sure I am terrible for thinking that, but it was. Like sex with someone your not really in tune with. The end of it for me pretty much was when she aid she was getting weird images in her head and I asked her what she was talking about.
> 
> ...


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Agree with MEM. . .it's the fine line males are supposed to walk - be dominant. . .but don't force. . .be rough. . .but don't hurt.

And if you get it wrong. . .you're insensitive.

LOL.

Good luck.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Committed - a couple quick thoughts to try to help you here. 

First things first. This is all 100 percent role play. I have never ever forced my wife to have sex - that would be rape. ALL the stuff below is me doing what turns HER on. Yes me too - but she initiated all this. If you like - agree on a "safe word" - something you would just never say in bed like - APPLE


It was a LOT easier for me to be dominant in the beginning than it was for me to be rough. Maybe this will also be true for you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dominant:

Voice stuff: wife loves this - she loves the commanding voice. Sometimes she resists a bit - then she gets the sharp edge to the voice. But she knows this game so when she resists it is BECAUSE she wants me to amp my game. 

Keep it short and to the point. When you say "now" put a little emphasis on it. Talk like you are 100 percent sure she will do what you say. Some phrases that may work. 
- Take your short off now 
- Strip 
- Take your clothes off now 
- Get on the bed
- Tell me you will do whatever I say
- I am going to do XXX to you whether or not you want me to

Physical - still not rough - just dominant
- Pin her against the wall - hold her wrists over her head against the wall - full eye contact - and then use some of the voice stuff
- Pin her down on the bed and use some voice stuff
- Move her around on the bed - this isn't rough - it is just being in control
- Some folks like restraints - leather cuffs - all harmless fun

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Rough - this stuff did not come to me naturally
- Spanking - there is a narrow range here - too rough just feels wrong - too soft and you totally kill the effect - takes some practice to get this right
- Light biting - enough that they feel it but NOT enough to really hurt
- There are sites on this stuff - and lots of folks who specialize in it

There you have it. 

The KEY to all this is that you figure out how to get her comfortable giving you feedback afterwards - what she likes more of/less of etc. 

I think the reason W is open with me is she knows that I totally love to rock her world. So when something works for her, by definition that gets me going. The "it's all about you" vibe is very powerful. 




Scannerguard said:


> Agree with MEM. . .it's the fine line males are supposed to walk - be dominant. . .but don't force. . .be rough. . .but don't hurt.
> 
> And if you get it wrong. . .you're insensitive.
> 
> ...


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## Crypsys (Apr 22, 2010)

Commited1, as others have said on here, that's fairly typical for many women. I'd say probably almost 3/4 of our sex is performed basically borderline BDSM. To be honest, it's not something I just go gaga over, or love. But, I've found for her, it's what gets her the most worked up and the most enjoyment. 

It is tough at first talking pretty dirty/mean, getting physical, etc. Just know that in her mind it's not a negative thing, it's quite the opposite.

Try to find out if she wants you simply to act like a "mans man" stereotype, or if she wants you to be dominant (ie, telling not asking, spanking, ordering her around, etc). You need to have this discussion though outside of the bedroom. If she says "I'm not sure" then you will have to take it step by step. Start out medium and slowly turn it up a few notches each time. When you start getting too far, she will let you know. That will then give you a good barometer of what she's looking for.


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

HappyHer said:


> Good for her for initiating. It shows she is a willing partner. Now, you just need to work it out where you both feel that your needs are being fulfilled!
> 
> She was open and honest about her feelings and that is a great start. I'm sure she would prefer to not be struggling with those, but she is willing to share her deeper feelings with you and that is extremely important even if it's not something you are both happy with, at least you know where some work needs to be done.
> 
> ...


Thanks, that makes allot of sense. We really tend to be more open emotionally like that when we have been doing it pretty frequently. Her mind and heart are stone walls that the occasional boulder is lobbed over at me from the other side. 

That is most of our 'heart-to-heart' communication, and at least I have learned to accept that the boulders she launches aren't so much an attack (though they hurt if I don'
t get out of the way) as they are really the only way she has to communicate sometimes. 

So I am going to throw her down on the bed tonight and dodge missiles afterwords.


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> Committed1,
> 
> This is a true breakthrough. Sorry buddy but you now get to join a long, long list of guys who have wives who like a dominant and rough sexual connection. I think as much as half the female population is turned on by this.
> 
> ...


Normally our sex was balanced between rough, gentle and a mix of both. Now she just wants it rough. But its spread to everything. Like if she sitting their browsing the news on her laptop while dinner cooks and I come in and bend down. She used to turn her head to kiss me. Now she just kind of smiles because she knows what I am going to do, have learned to do- grab her chin and force her face to mine and kiss her wildly. Then we make out. That is great sometimes, but normally I just want a kiss.


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

Scannerguard said:


> Agree with MEM. . .it's the fine line males are supposed to walk - be dominant. . .but don't force. . .be rough. . .but don't hurt.
> 
> And if you get it wrong. . .you're insensitive.
> 
> ...


lol yep. Its a mine field. One false move and you get none or worse get into a fight. Its like...you don't want to have to walk through mine fields, across egg shells, dodge boulders, always act like a caveman to just have sex. It wasn't like that before the big commitment and the kids etc. grr


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> Committed - a couple quick thoughts to try to help you here.
> 
> First things first. This is all 100 percent role play. I have never ever forced my wife to have sex - that would be rape. ALL the stuff below is me doing what turns HER on. Yes me too - but she initiated all this. If you like - agree on a "safe word" - something you would just never say in bed like - APPLE
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tips! I am really used to all of this, just not the ALWAYS ROUGH part. But my wife loves all of the stuff you pointed out above. Especially "your gonna give it to me whether or not you want to". She likes to play-struggle against me as I pull her clothes off. 

As long as she is kind of giggling and has a certain tone to her voice and look on her face I know its ok. If she really doesn't want it she'll crack me good and tell me to get the f off of her. And of course I get off of her and slink away to the shadows like a troll.

That used to be fun every once in awhile but really I am just sick of it, every single time.


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

Crypsys said:


> Commited1, as others have said on here, that's fairly typical for many women. I'd say probably almost 3/4 of our sex is performed basically borderline BDSM. To be honest, it's not something I just go gaga over, or love. But, I've found for her, it's what gets her the most worked up and the most enjoyment.
> 
> It is tough at first talking pretty dirty/mean, getting physical, etc. Just know that in her mind it's not a negative thing, it's quite the opposite.
> 
> Try to find out if she wants you simply to act like a "mans man" stereotype, or if she wants you to be dominant (ie, telling not asking, spanking, ordering her around, etc). You need to have this discussion though outside of the bedroom. If she says "I'm not sure" then you will have to take it step by step. Start out medium and slowly turn it up a few notches each time. When you start getting too far, she will let you know. That will then give you a good barometer of what she's looking for.


We are pretty used to the rough bit. If she wants sex, it is never a matter of "too far", she always seems to want to take it the next step. Biting "harder, bite harder", so I bite harder, "no harder", and harder until she is bleeding. Not like squirting fountains of blood, but definitely a little blood. And then shes like "omg you made me bleed, this is so hot". Same with spanking. Not to the point of bleeding but to the point where her ass is bright red. 

If I want her to orgasm it is pretty straight forward: force her on her stomach on the bed, give her oral and hands from behind really rough. Squeezing, sucking, spanking- thats good for 1, then move up onto her- hold her hands down with one hand and force her face around and aggressively kiss her with the other hand while penetrating from the back. That is good for at least 1 more. 

I guess our lack of sex lately is as much due to my lack of desire to do it that way every single time. She basically wants me to be horny and to try to force sex every single night and when she wants it she will not crack me hard and tell me to get the f off her, and when she doesn't want it she will.


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

Overall update: 

We have talked about this and she swears it is due to her being on the pill. Which makes sense because the pill allays plays hell with her hormones. She has decided to get her tubes tied and quit the pill after-wards. Things should return to normal by then and I won;t have to play caveman every time I want sex.


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## L_Graze (Jun 15, 2010)

I've read through some of your posts. It seems like when you're wife wanted it in the dark and under the covers, you weren't satisfied. And now that she wants it rough, you're still not satisfied. What exactly do you want? lol.


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## tam911 (Jun 17, 2010)

commited1...Whoa....you could be MY husband! I have the same issues as your wife and I would do anything if I could take some magic pill to make me want to have sex! My husband does everything right...it is ME with the problem. I know this, and I can't get past it. I want to though.... which is why I found this website. 

Like you, my husband has been so very patient. He deserves better. I wish I could be what he wants me to be....I would give anything to enjoy sex like he does. He is good looking, kind, and generous. He is also a great dad to our two boys. His only problem is me. My resistance stems from years of feeling used for sex and also from pain associated with it. My hubby is not a small guy. I think I need to see a counselor at this point. I want to fix the problem....but the problem is both physical and mental. Mostly mental. Maybe we could help each other figure this out!


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Commited1-

I find this a really interesting thread - it has certainly given me all sorts of ideas. I appreciate your near shock at your wife saying "omg you made me bleed, this is so hot" after she encouraged you to bite her harder and harder.

The trick might be to try to envelop her in a dominating atmosphere (when she is in the mood) so that less force is still perceived as more dangerous. She wants to play. If you can deliver "safe danger", you will be her hero. Try and make it fun and flirty danger, not moody serious danger. It's a tough act if it does not come easily to you (don't ask me how I know).

However, longer term I sense a problem. She seems to have a little bit of a problem separating fantasy from reality. It's up to you to lead but keep a look-out for other signs. I would say, something is going to blow up in your face at some point. When someone wants that much abuse, it's indicative of a problem.

Don't let her think you're analysing her but... you need to do some digging. you need to be one step ahead. This is heading way beyond "soft S&M". She's lucky you're no sadist, otherwise the whole thing would descend to the "Dark Side" quite rapidly.

I'm not against consensual rough sex - far from it - it's a great stress buster and can be a very highly charged erotic experience. But it's important to know what you are dealing with and at what level.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

I had forgotten about your old threads, I found an old post I had left on your first thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/103033-post4.html

I read all your threads again (quickly), and I would say that the abuse she suffered as a youngster is really coming up now in the context of her being a young mother and wife.

You need to be firm and loving. I think she loves you a lot and needs you. Childhood has left her moral compass is a bit skewed, so you will have to navigate for two.


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