# Checking out other women



## Kurious

Backround info since I'm new here: I'm 26, college student, married 4 1/2 years, no kids, very active and fit.

Do other husbands out there check out other girls? My wife makes me feel like there is something wrong with me. Like I'm a terrible person. I don't go to the gym with the mission of checking out ass. I don't go to the beach to see girls half naked. But it is hard to not notice girls who i think are beautiful if they come into sight. I feel like it's something I can't help. My wife has always wanted me to be honest with her in our relationship and my honesty causes many problems for us. It's always devastating to her that I check out others. She never catches me but she knows I do because I'm honest. The only solution I can think of is to drop out of school, join an all mens gym, stay inside, etc. Or... Just lie to her and say I don't check out others. Do other men just lie about this? My wife has a serious serious issue with jealousy. 

I'm at a loss here because we got in a fight over this again and I have no idea what to do.


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## batsociety

Of course married men check out other girls (and guys), and so do married women. I think most of them do lie about it but their spouses have got to know. Being married doesn't mean you're blind or dead, and obviously the person you marry is not the only person in the world you find visually appealing. Of course some people will feel threatened by this - everyone has insecurities. My advice wouldn't be to lie to your wife about it (by this point she'd definitely know you're lying), but just try extra hard to convince her that those girls at the gym/school/wherever don't got nothing on her. 

(Out of curiosity, how does this even come up? Does she straight out ask you about it? Like "so, did you see any hot chicks today?")


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## flyer

No need to lie. I'm 56 and look at the "girls" all the time. I even tell my wife if I think one is cute or pretty. She used to get pretty jealous.

I should have told, or asked my wife long ago, "so what are you going to do to keep me focused on you?" I might/would be in a whole different situation now!

But I too was in my 20's and not near as "wise" as I am now.


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## Married but Happy

She sounds hopelessly insecure and naïve. Of course you'll notice other women, and as long as you're not leering or staring it's normal. For her to think otherwise is abnormal.

Heck, my wife even points out attractive women to me for my enjoyment, in case I've missed them. It's like seeing a nice sunset.


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## thefam

Kurious, I am curious as to how this comes up also. Does she ask you? Or do you just come out and say I looked at 10 nice a$$es today.

I would suggest having a heart to heart talk with your wife to get to the root of the jealously. Your wife needs to feel that her heart is safe with you. The fact that you are on here asking for advice shows that you care about this situation. Sure many men and women look at others, but the only thing that matters in your case is how this is affecting her, not what other people think is normal or abnormal. The fact that it doesn't bother 999 million women in the world does not matter if it bothers YOUR wife. 

This is not conventional TAM thinking but I think if a man truly love his wife, he will want her to feel secure in the relationship. That does not mean he walks on pins and needles or has to put up with worrying about every little thing he says or does being misinterpreted by his wife. But I think it does mean caring enough to find out why she feels this way and what you can do to be supportive in helping her deal with it. 

Not all women are the same and in your case it DOES bother your wife. She may need a little extra care in that area of your relationship. Some of the women who are vocal on TAM don't care about their husbands checking out other women, watching porn, having opposite sex best friends. They are totally secure in their relationship, believe their husbands would never cheat, and if they did they would kick them to the curb and move on with their lives, never looking back.

But then some women need a little more support than that.


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## unbelievable

I'm married, not blind or gay.


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## thefam

unbelievable said:


> I'm married, not blind or gay.


So bascially if your wife had a problem with you checking out women you would just say "deal with it". Im sure you are not alone in that philosophy. I think thats a pretty weak approach.


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## Married but Happy

thefam said:


> So bascially if your wife had a problem with you checking out women you would just say "deal with it". Im sure you are not alone in that philosophy. I think thats a pretty weak approach.


If I had a wife like that, I'd reassure her as best I could, but her insecurity is her problem to deal with, ultimately. If I'm not leering or staring or commenting, I don't have a behavior problem that needs fixing.


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## always_alone

One way to help her get over your wandering eyes is to encourage her to check out other men. Half-naked guys at the beach or at the gym can also make for very good eye-candy.

She might resist, or feel badly about being disloyal to you, but you can simply reassure her that it's perfectly fine and harmless for her to be dwelling on guys other than you.

What's good for the gander...


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## Wolf1974

Married but Happy said:


> If I had a wife like that, I'd reassure her as best I could, but her insecurity is her problem to deal with, ultimately. If I'm not leering or staring or commenting, I don't have a behavior problem that needs fixing.


Correct. You never let someone else's insecurity dictate your own. Beautiful people out there ....women and I hear some men as well and they are going to get checked out. That's perfectly normal


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## Wolf1974

always_alone said:


> One way to help her get over your wandering eyes is to encourage her to check out other men. Half-naked guys at the beach or at the gym can also make for very good eye-candy.
> 
> She might resist, or feel badly about being disloyal to you, but you can simply reassure her that it's perfectly fine and harmless for her to be dwelling on guys other than you.
> 
> What's good for the gander...


Women do this anyway.....she is a big girl I'm sure she can figure out how to do this without his "help"


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## thefam

Married but Happy said:


> If I had a wife like that, I'd reassure her as best I could, but her insecurity is her problem to deal with, ultimately. If I'm not leering or staring or commenting, I don't have a behavior problem that needs fixing.


I would expect most men to respond this way. But I think its weak (and by weak I mean the easy way out) because I think it is an issue that a man could easily get to the root of with caring and empathy, and the willingness to give up certain behaviors if you know it affects your wife negatively. 

Happy, I do have to point out, though, that I think you fall in a different category when it comes to matters such as this. You do not think conventionally about marriage.

ETA: I do not expect my H not to check out women. I realize that 99.9999 percentof men do it all the time. I even know that I am not his ideal woman as far as physicaly appearance. But my H has never given me reason to think anything other than he is a faithful man who loves me dearly and is committed to the marriage and to me. So one of my reasons for the opinion I hold is that perhaps some husbands need to check the treatment of their wife before they dump the insecurity in her lap to handle.


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## Married but Happy

thefam said:


> I would expect most men to respond this way. But I think its weak (and by weak I mean the easy way out) because I think it is an issue that a man could easily get to the root of with caring and empathy, and the willingness to give up certain behaviors if you know it affects your wife negatively.
> 
> Happy, I do have to point out, though, that I think you fall in a different category when it comes to matters such as this. You do not think conventionally about marriage.


If you think it's a weak approach, then what would you suggest as a solution that doesn't violate the man's personal integrity and make him weak by submitting to unreasonable expectations?

Also, my answer is in no way influenced by my unconventional take on marriage, and I am a little offended that you bring that up as it's not relevant to this issue. I was in a completely conventional, monogamous marriage for 25 years, so I can and usually do speak from that experience.


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## Rowan

Kurious said:


> Backround info since I'm new here: I'm 26, college student, married 4 1/2 years, no kids, very active and fit.
> 
> Do other husbands out there check out other girls? My wife makes me feel like there is something wrong with me. Like I'm a terrible person. I don't go to the gym with the mission of checking out ass. I don't go to the beach to see girls half naked. But it is hard to not notice girls who i think are beautiful if they come into sight. I feel like it's something I can't help. My wife has always wanted me to be honest with her in our relationship and my honesty causes many problems for us. It's always devastating to her that I check out others. She never catches me but she knows I do because I'm honest. The only solution I can think of is to drop out of school, join an all mens gym, stay inside, etc. Or... Just lie to her and say I don't check out others. Do other men just lie about this? *My wife has a serious serious issue with jealousy.*
> 
> I'm at a loss here because we got in a fight over this again and I have no idea what to do.


How does her "serious serious issue with jealousy" manifest? Is her insecurity and jealousy totally baseless and irrational, or have there been incidents in her, or your, past that might lead her to be particularly sensitive to you checking out other women?


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## Wolf1974

thefam said:


> I would expect most men to respond this way. But I think its weak (and by weak I mean the easy way out) because I think it is an issue that a man could easily get to the root of with caring and empathy, and the willingness to give up certain behaviors if you know it affects your wife negatively.
> 
> Happy, I do have to point out, though, that I think you fall in a different category when it comes to matters such as this. You do not think conventionally about marriage.


While I would hope we could all agree that leering or making rude comments to your partner is over the top and should not be tolerated at all from either gender I didn't get that sense from the OPs post he was doing that. His description, which granted is one sided, seems that this comes from insecurity of his wife. To the point that he has to lie about seeing a woman? That to me sounds borderline like a **** test.

I have never personally been with a woman who was this level of insecure that lying was involved but I have had friends that have. One of which had to quit our gym because of the number of hot girls who worked out in yoga pants apparently. I was with him when we lifted and he checked out women less often than I did. But this was an issue for her the ONE time she joined us and she had him quit. Certainly his choice to stay with someone like this but was also her insecurity.


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## jld

I agree, tfam. A loving husband wants to reassure his wife and support her, not tell her she is on her own to deal with her insecurity. 

I have been with Dug nearly 22 years, and not one time have I seen him "check out" another woman. I have literally never seen him give another woman a second glance.

Since being on TAM, I have asked him about this. He says a woman's physical appearance does register with him, but he does not dwell on it. He does not believe in feeding that.


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## thefam

Wolf1974 said:


> While I would hope we could all agree that leering or making rude comments to your partner is over the top and should not be tolerated at all from either gender I didn't get that sense from the OPs post he was doing that. His description, which granted is one sided, seems that this comes from insecurity of his wife. *To the point that he has to lie about seeing a woman? That to me sounds borderline like a **** test.*
> 
> I have never personally been with a woman who was this level of insecure that lying was involved but I have had friends that have. One of which had to quit our gym because of the number of hot girls who worked out in yoga pants apparently. I was with him when we lifted and he checked out women less often than I did. But this was an issue for her the ONE time she joined us and she had him quit. Certainly his choice to stay with someone like this but was also her insecurity.


Wolf, I believe he specifically stated he DOES NOT lie. And I am not advocating that he does. I am not even stating that the jealously is caused by any negative behavior on his part. All I am saying is that for some reason, his wife does not feel secure and trusting of her heart to him. He should try to find out why. I am saying it is too easy to brush it off and say its her problem to solve. What happened to for better or worse?


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## Wolf1974

jld said:


> I agree, tfam. A loving husband wants to reassure his wife and support her, not tell her she is on her own to deal with her insecurity.
> 
> I have been with Dug nearly 22 years, and not one time have I seen him "check out" another woman. I have literally never seen him give another woman a second glance.
> 
> Since being on TAM, I have asked him about this. He says a woman's physical appearance does register with him, but he does not dwell on it. He does not believe in feeding that.


We need to get the gender specific nonsense out. Both men and women check out the opposite sex

Loving and supporting only works to a point when it's not an internal insecurity. In other words if you were caught staring one time, just lost in a moment for example, and your partner sees that and is hurt of course you want to communicate or apologize perhaps if it was offensive. But to somehow think you have on blinders just because your married is ridiculous. Both genders check out the other. It's the way we were built.


That's said I was very much like your husband when I was married. I rarely checked out another woman and was damn near oblivious to being flirted with even when other guys saw it. I just didn't care cause I was happy and I wasn't going to cheat so really didn't care. Even with all that on occasion you would see someone in life you just couldn't help take a second look at  lol. But was rare when I was married


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## Wolf1974

thefam said:


> Wolf, I believe he specifically stated he DOES NOT lie. And I am not advocating that he does. I am not even stating that the jealously is caused by any negative behavior on his part. All I am saying is that for some reason, his wife does not feel secure and trusting of her heart to him. He should try to find out why. I am saying it is too easy to brush it off and say its her problem to solve. What happened to for better or worse?


He is contemplating it according to his post. That's all I meant. And I wouldn't do that either. I don't beliebe in deception in a committed relationship. 

And I totally agree that he should find out where the insecurity comes from. And if it's something he is doing unconsciously he could maybe fix that. If she is more like my friends wife who has the expectation that he is to see no women on the planet but her then yeah that is something she will have to work on for herself. Really just depends where it all comes from


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## John Lee

jld said:


> I agree, tfam. A loving husband wants to reassure his wife and support her, not tell her she is on her own to deal with her insecurity.
> 
> I have been with Dug nearly 22 years, and not one time have I seen him "check out" another woman. I have literally never seen him give another woman a second glance.
> 
> Since being on TAM, I have asked him about this. He says a woman's physical appearance does register with him, but he does not dwell on it. He does not believe in feeding that.


So he is smart enough not to do it in front of you. What's the difference between a woman's appearance "registering with him" and him "dwelling on it?" You mean he doesn't literally follow a woman's backside with his head, make wolf-whistle noises and have smoke pour out of his ears?


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## thefam

jld said:


> I agree, tfam. A loving husband wants to reassure his wife and support her, not tell her she is on her own to deal with her insecurity.
> 
> I have been with Dug nearly 22 years, and not one time have I seen him "check out" another woman. I have literally never seen him give another woman a second glance.
> 
> Since being on TAM, I have asked him about this. He says a woman's physical appearance does register with him, but he does not dwell on it. He does not believe in feeding that.


I can like this a thousand times because Dug is not afraid to buck conventional thinking on manhood. Plus he has a French accent which gives him extra man points on GP.


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## John Lee

For what it's worth, I completely agree that the message should be reassurance, rather than "deal with it." But the point shouldn't be "I never even look at another woman" which would just be a blatant lie, it should be more like "sometimes a woman catches my eye on the street but it's completely insignificant to me -- you're the most beautiful woman I know and the love of my life."


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## Wolf1974

John Lee said:


> For what it's worth, I completely agree that the message should be reassurance, rather than "deal with it." But the point shouldn't be "I never even look at another woman" which would just be a blatant lie, it should be more like "sometimes a woman catches my eye on the street but it's completely insignificant to me -- you're the most beautiful woman I know and the love of my life."


:iagree:

This


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## John Lee

Also, being "honest" doesn't mean you have to come home and say "I saw the hottest chick in front of the office today, she was a dimepiece!"


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## askari

Heavens sake....we are all human! We all look at members of the opposite sex....often to compare them with 'what' we have!

If I was a woman who's guy looked at other women and said 'wow! sexy'...I'd think 'Yeah but he chose ME'.
It cuts both ways.

I imagine the only time it becomes an issue is it one partner spends more tile eyeing up the opposite sex than they do paying their own partner attention.

If a guy started showing interest in my wife my ititial reaction would be to say 'Yeah go bro...go for it, really'....but then if I were honest I'd say 'listen, she doesn't give oral, she doesn't snog (toungue kiss) and she's really boring. Forget it'. Its a man thing.

If anyone says 'maybe its YOU'...my reply would be 'fine....I would really like to see her have an affair and give head, love etc...because then I would KNOW it was me.
Calling me a perverted ba$tard for wanting a BJ?....in that case 99%of men are perverted ba$tards!!!!!!


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## jaquen

Kurious said:


> Backround info since I'm new here: I'm 26, college student, married 4 1/2 years, no kids, very active and fit.
> 
> Do other husbands out there check out other girls? My wife makes me feel like there is something wrong with me. Like I'm a terrible person. I don't go to the gym with the mission of checking out ass. I don't go to the beach to see girls half naked. But it is hard to not notice girls who i think are beautiful if they come into sight. I feel like it's something I can't help. My wife has always wanted me to be honest with her in our relationship and my honesty causes many problems for us. It's always devastating to her that I check out others. She never catches me but she knows I do because I'm honest. The only solution I can think of is to drop out of school, join an all mens gym, stay inside, etc. Or... Just lie to her and say I don't check out others. Do other men just lie about this? My wife has a serious serious issue with jealousy.
> 
> I'm at a loss here because we got in a fight over this again and I have no idea what to do.



Of course other husbands do.

You all need to implement a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

Honestly is great, but some things are best left unsaid. She needs to learn to stop asking you and you need to not volunteer this information. Her insecurities are creating a jealousy that you're only feeding with your honesty.

Knowing when to shut the hell up in a marriage is as important as knowing when to speak.


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## Jellybeans

There is checking out, noticing attractive people and then there is ogling which is gross.

I dated a guy once who used to say "Hello" every time he saw a hot chick, right in front of me. I find that behavior rude.

With that said, humans do find others attractive. There is something to be said for discretion and being respectful of your partner.


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## jld

John Lee said:


> So he is smart enough not to do it in front of you. What's the difference between a woman's appearance "registering with him" and him "dwelling on it?" You mean he doesn't literally follow a woman's backside with his head, make wolf-whistle noises and have smoke pour out of his ears?


All I can tell you is I have never seen it. 

He is not blind, but he does not feed what he does not want to grow.


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## norajane

John Lee said:


> For what it's worth, I completely agree that the message should be reassurance, rather than "deal with it." But the point shouldn't be "I never even look at another woman" which would just be a blatant lie, it should be more like "sometimes a woman catches my eye on the street but it's completely insignificant to me -- you're the most beautiful woman I know and the love of my life."


:iagree:

Without knowing anything about this couple's history, I'd say that she'd feel less concerned if she were more secure about the OP's attraction to her and love for her.

If she has "serious serious" jealousy issues, first consider whether there are there other behaviors which contribute to her fears. Are you very social with lots of women friends? Do you do a lot of activities where you are surrounded by attractive women? Are you frequently leaving your wife behind while you go off on your own? If you do those kinds of things, when added to checking out other women, then it starts to seem like a pattern where you might be vulnerable to getting involved with someone else.

Also consider the overall stability of your relationship. Do you have a history with break-ups and/or arguments about other women? Have you cheated on her physically in the past? Have you had an emotional affair in the past? Did you break up with her at any point for another woman? Jealousy has a lot to do with fear of losing someone, so consider why she might be afraid that could happen so easily.

And consider the health of your relationship. Do you spend 15 hours a week of alone time, just focused on connecting with each other? How is your sex life - is she satisfied or does she feel you don't have sex often enough? Are you on the same page with life goals, values, finances, etc.? If this stuff is rocky, then insecurity about the relationship can drive other fears like jealousy.

Basically, these fears don't happen in a vacuum. It's rarely just about one thing when jealousy is a regular part of a marriage.


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## Jellybeans

norajane said:


> If she has "serious serious" jealousy issues, first consider whether there are there other behaviors which contribute to her fears. Are you very social with lots of women friends? Do you do a lot of activities where you are surrounded by attractive women? Are you frequently leaving your wife behind while you go off on your own? If you do those kinds of things, when added to checking out other women, then it starts to seem like a pattern where you might be vulnerable to getting involved with someone else.
> 
> Also consider the overall stability of your relationship. Do you have a history with break-ups and/or arguments about other women? Have you cheated on her physically in the past? Have you had an emotional affair in the past? Did you break up with her at any point for another woman? Jealousy has a lot to do with fear of losing someone, so consider why she might be afraid that could happen so easily.
> 
> And consider the health of your relationship. Do you spend 15 hours a week of alone time, just focused on connecting with each other? How is your sex life - is she satisfied or does she feel you don't have sex often enough? Are you on the same page with life goals, values, finances, etc.? If this stuff is rocky, then insecurity about the relationship can drive other fears like jealousy.
> 
> Basically, these fears don't happen in a vacuum. It's rarely just about one thing when jealousy is a regular part of a marriage.


I agree with all of this. Sometimes someone may feel this way because their partner is being or has been shady. I dated a guy (I have a lot of these stories today) who told me early on that his ex was "extremely" jealous to the point he couldn't look at other women. I thought that was strange. Then he made a comment to me about how she'd go through his phone and he hated it. Ok, understood. Then one day I saw him sexy text-chatting other people while we were together. And he then flirted/was way too close with a woman right in front of me. So eventually a pattern began to form. I could see why the ex felt that way. She wasn't "crazy." He just had sh*tty boundaries that would make any woman feel weird/slighted/jealous.


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## always_alone

Wolf1974 said:


> Women do this anyway.....she is a big girl I'm sure she can figure out how to do this without his "help"


Oh, but I'm not suggesting he help her notice men. I'm sure she can do that on her own. I meant help her get over her jealousy by reassuring her that it's perfectly fine if she is just as distracted as he is.

A lot of women will turn off their eye-wandering out of a sense of loyalty, and because they want the relationship to work. And when they do this, it can be frustrating for them to see that he doesn't at all feel the same way.

But if she's equally distracted by the eye-candy and/or the attention she can draw from other men, she won't have time to monitor what he's up to. Or feel jealous.

Worked for me, at any rate. Less so for my h, of course, but he doesn't seem to really care all that much if I'm into him or not.


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## ConanHub

I look all the time at pretty much everyone, men included. I encourage my wife to discuss people she looks at as well. We are open about our people watching. People are very interesting to look at. She pointed out that a clerk in an electronics store the other day was very attractive and could easily model. I agreed. He was so pretty it was distracting.

She talks to me about women too. We don't run around slobbering on people. That is for the bedroom.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaquen

One has to be reasonable about these things.

Almost everyone, regardless of sex, checks out other human beings. Sometimes it's sexual, sometimes it's curiosity, sometimes it's to compare, sometimes it's just to look at something they're wearing, or a hairstyle, whatever. Everyone checks out everyone, this isn't even just a sexual interest thing. And exceptionally attractive people get looked at all the time by all sexes.

You should however be respectful of your partner, always. If you know you have a partner with insecurity issues, why make the problem worse? Yes insecurity is something a person must deal with, nobody else can walk that road for you, but a loving partner doesn't need to make it worse. Keep your eyes to yourself when out with them, or if you must look, be very discreet. And don't go running to them to tell them how many beautiful pairs of tits you've seen today, or how you thought this one guy's ass looked great in some sweats. Keep it to yourself.

On the other hand insecurities can murder a relationship by creating insane expectations. For example one of my best friends is an early 20's, married father of one little one. He's one of the sweetest, most loving, open hearted men I've ever met. His wife, however, has a much tougher shell and can be pretty standoffish. She has a lot of issues from her past that have hardened her. She's also got a weight issue, and her insecurities have only gotten worse since the birth of the baby. She's so incredibly insecure that she isn't even comfortable with her husband wearing non-baggy t-shirts. I don't mean even tight muscle ts, but just anything that even remotely shows that his body has some shape. He's a very lean man; lightly muscled, not a big bodybuilder type, more like a swimmer. Anything that suggests however that he's got a decent body, even hints at it, she hates. She is unreasonable. Because insecurities, when left unchecked, lead to places that are insane and destructive.


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## SimplyAmorous

My H always notices beautiful women but he's never been one to make a show of it ...never in our yrs did I find anything he did the least bit disrespectful to me.. he also doesn't speak of it...

It's ME who asks questions, so I know *his type*.. I am not at all bothered by this, I want his authentic answering here..... I consider it perfectly normal male behavior.. now if he leered and GAWKED.. I'd surely spank him!. ..that would make me feel "lessor" somehow, or question.. "am I not hot enough for you?"...But looking in passing.. all good !

I know he is not the type to go off tapping this or that .. so who cares.. Same with me, I like a little eye candy... he knows my type also..we've talked very openly about such things....

That's just how we are.. and have always been..


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## jorgegene

My Dad is 92 years old, been married to my mom for 64 years and loves her to death. 

He was oogling over Katie Perry at the superbowl halftime.

Does that answer the question?

(btw, it NEVER STOPS!)


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## jaquen

jld said:


> He says a woman's physical appearance does register with him, but he does not dwell on it. He does not believe in feeding that.


That means he does check out women. You've just not noticed it.

Checking out =/= dwelling. I hope you don't think men acknowledging that they notice a beautiful or sexy woman automatically means they're dwelling or "feeding". Plenty of men notice an attractive women with a glance, but don't necessarily oggle or log her away for spank bank material.


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## ConanHub

Married but Happy said:


> If you think it's a weak approach, then what would you suggest as a solution that doesn't violate the man's personal integrity and make him weak by submitting to unreasonable expectations?
> 
> Also, my answer is in no way influenced by my unconventional take on marriage, and I am a little offended that you bring that up as it's not relevant to this issue. I was in a completely conventional, monogamous marriage for 25 years, so I can and usually do speak from that experience.


Married is on the same page as me here and I am slightly on the conventional side.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

Spank bank??? I can't wait to call my wife that!&#55357;&#56833;&#55357;&#56840;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous

jorgegene said:


> *My Dad is 92 years old, been married to my mom for 64 years and loves her to death.
> 
> He was oogling over Katie Perry at the superbowl halftime.
> 
> Does that answer the question?
> 
> (btw, it NEVER STOPS!)*


Personally the day it stops for any of us.. I think we need our hormones checked.. You dad sounds like a healthy old goat !! Good for him.. and for your MOM too! God bless them -64 yrs !!

Taken from this old thread.. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/24519-way-men-really-think.html this was one of my posts .. when I asked my H about what goes through HIS MIND...playing off of Unbelievable's post.. which our sons also agreed with ...how it works for them too.. .



> unbelievable said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have already said that fixating on a woman (ie, imaging an actual sex act with her or fantasizing about her stripping) is a bit creepy and, of course, that is a choice. My point is that there is an immediate "yes", "no", "Maybe if I was drunk" sort of selection going on for the briefest of nanoseconds in every male brain (at least the straight ones). *Having been male for nearly 50 years, I have been "listening" to "yep", "nope", "no way in hell", etc every day for at least 40 years. *Of the thousands of guys I have worked and lived closely with, they all seem to have the same thing going on. Naturally, only a creton would attempt to act on those thoughts and one would be sort of a perv to dwell on the subject and create disgusting mental scenarios. I'm a Christian and I'm married. Neither experience rendered me blind or oblivious to my surroundings. The OP asked how men thought and I've given the most honest answer I can.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, I talked with MY Husband tonight, I wanted to know how mentally *his mind *works in this regard. I shared with him Unbelievable's response in my own words, he said this is TRUE of him also. Now remember he is not the type to envision having SEX with any women he looks at, so he is out of the "Creepy" category.
> 
> Here is how he explained it ....
> 
> 1st he looks at the face, this will not sound nice but he says "if she is dog faced, no sense in going any further", then he automatically puts them into baskets >>> "Doable" ..."Maybe".... or "ewwww NEVER". He said IF there is a CHOICE in these matters, it would be to LOOK AWAY immediately, but he admitted he doesn't want to do that, "it is no fun". Then here is his next mental thoughts within seconds "I love my wife, STD's, I love my kids , STD's" and that is the end of the fleeting fantasy.
> 
> I have to say I am similar, I look at guys, I enjoy it, I also look at women, I compare, this is all normal behavior I feel.
> 
> My husband even KNOWS what turns me on (long haired guys), he has even pointed them out to me. And I know what he likes -Brunnets without tatoos. Sometimes I do a double take when I see the Rock star type, my husband just shakes his head & smiles. He is not bothered, half the time they could be my son's age! I know what I have at home, my thoughts aren't "oh if I only had him instead" but just "OH he is Hot" -not envisioning sex. These thoughts only linger seconds also.
> 
> Although I am worse than my husband, I have had such momentary "sexual thoughts" about an actor, famous musicain & Porn star before. I am a naughty woman. But still very much in love with my man. He gets all the benefits of my naughtiness, so he is not complaining or worried about this at all.
Click to expand...


----------



## jld

jaquen said:


> That means he does check out women. You've just not noticed it.
> 
> Checking out =/= dwelling. I hope you don't think men acknowledging that they notice a beautiful or sexy woman automatically means they're dwelling or "feeding". Plenty of men notice an attractive women with a glance, but don't necessarily oggle or log her away for spank bank material.


I don't know if I am not communicating well, or if there is just an unwillingness to hear what I am communicating.

Never seen as much as a glance. Do not know how to describe it any other way.


----------



## John Lee

jld said:


> I don't know if I am not communicating well, or if there is just an unwillingness to hear what I am communicating.
> 
> Never seen as much as a glance. Do not know how to describe it any other way.


Ok, if so, then honestly, good for him, and good for you, but so what?


----------



## jld

John Lee said:


> Ok, if so, then honestly, good for him, and good for you, but so what?


It is possible for a man to control himself. He can refuse to feed what is unhealthy for his relationship.


----------



## ConanHub

Don't most people have a split second "mating" possibility moment based purely on physical appearance? Obviously other factors come rolling in later.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

jld said:


> It is possible for a man to control himself. He can refuse to feed what is unhealthy for his relationship.


Agree here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jaquen

jld said:


> I don't know if I am not communicating well, or if there is just an unwillingness to hear what I am communicating.
> 
> Never seen as much as a glance. Do not know how to describe it any other way.


You're communicating just fine.

I was just noting that just because you haven't seen Dug check out other women, doesn't mean he doesn't.

He does. He said as much when he admitted that he "registers" them, he just doesn't dwell. That's not uncommon. He's just very discreet. And good for him and you both, seriously.


----------



## jaquen

jld said:


> It is possible for a man to control himself. He can refuse to feed what is unhealthy for his relationship.


Of course he can. Most of us can.

It's coming off like you seem to think that "checking out" is the same thing as "feeding" a fantasy.

It's not.


----------



## thefam

Married but Happy said:


> If you think it's a weak approach, then what would you suggest as a solution that doesn't violate the man's personal integrity and make him weak by submitting to unreasonable expectations?
> 
> Also, my answer is in no way influenced by my unconventional take on marriage, and I am a little offended that you bring that up as it's not relevant to this issue. I was in a completely conventional, monogamous marriage for 25 years, so I can and usually do speak from that experience.


I am sorry for having offended you Happy but I am baffled as to why you are offended. You have made no secret of it here on TAM. But anyway I apolgize for the offense but stand by my comment that your perspective is going to be different.


----------



## John Lee

jaquen said:


> Of course he can. Most of us can.
> 
> It's coming off like you seem to think that "checking out" is the same thing as "feeding" a fantasy.
> 
> It's not.


Right. I check out women, and I do it in a way that is not unhealthy for my relationship. Seems simple enough. I just saw a really beautiful woman on the subway this morning. I'll never see her again and probably forget her tomorrow. What difference does it make?


----------



## Ikaika

Everything in context: there are times like this semester, that in the classroom I'm the only male. But because of my position it would be very inappropriate for me to check anyone out at all. However, they, the young ladies likely look at this old guy with "ewww", on their mind. So it is all for the best. 

Just to echo others, discretion and understanding, in that a glance or a look is different than a stare and salivation.


----------



## jaquen

thefam said:


> I am sorry for having offended you Happy but I am baffled as to why you are offended. You have made no secret of it here on TAM. But anyway I apolgize for the offense but stand by my comment that your perspective is going to be different.



I get why Happy is offended. I think you were inappropriate. I've seen other people on here do the same thing you've done, and don't seem to get why.

Some of the posters on TAM that give the best advice on marriage are actually divorced. It's as if they came into a thread, gave their perspective, and you responded "well you're divorced, so you fall into a different category when it comes to matters such as this".

I really don't think you, me, or anyone here knows enough about Happy's life to suggest that just because he has "unconventional" thoughts about marriage and relationships NOW it means he's always had them or can't step outside of them and see life from a different perspective.

It was also completely unnecessary to try and shoehorn what you think you know about his life in this thread since his view is reflected by most guys posting here, and most of us have more "conventional" views.


----------



## jld

jaquen said:


> Of course he can. Most of us can.
> 
> It's coming off like you seem to think that "checking out" is the same thing as "feeding" a fantasy.
> 
> It's not.


I am not talking about even a fantasy. I am talking about feeding thoughts of other women, period.

I think it depends on the kind of person you want to be.

I know what checking out means. I know the difference between Oh, there's a nice-looking guy, as I walk right past him on my way to pick up bread, and turning around and staring because I am amazed a man like that ever walked through the doors of the supermarket where I shop.

I don't like myself when I turn around and look twice, even if I do it discreetly. It is not the kind of person I want to be. It does not make me feel good about myself.

I advise OP to think more about raising his standards for the kind of husband he wants to be. He can ask himself if he ever has a daughter, does he want her to marry someone like him.


----------



## Marduk

I think we need to be careful and align on what we mean by words like "checking out," "noticing," etc.

What it means to some may not be what it means to others.

Noticing to me is becoming aware of. There's a beautiful woman walking down the hall, I notice her, appreciate her beauty, and let it drop back out of my awareness. Perhaps in a second or less.

Checking out to me is the above, with an added scan say up and down, taking her in, and then letting it go back out of my awareness.

All of the above, discreetly, and without fixating on it is OK to me. It's being human, and being in touch with my male-ness.

Anything more than that -- to me -- is ogling. And even the second one -- checking out -- is only OK every once in a while and shouldn't be fixated on.

To me, on the one side, people fixate, fantasize, direspect, ogle, perhaps even catcall. Bad for you, bad for your partner, bad for the object of your attention.

On the other side, to deny who you are as a sexual human being isn't healthy or realistic, and can give rise to all kinds of things.

To me, the balance lies somewhere between.


----------



## Kurious

I haven't finished reading all the replies yet because there were over 50. I'll do that in a second.

But here the deal. I have a total of 0 friends that are female. I am never around females really. Only at school and the gym, but I am very shy and never speak to any in the first place. So, it's not like I'm constantly with other women. 

I don't go out on my own a lot. I much prefer to spend time with my wife. In fact I can't remember the last time I went out without her (excluding the gym) because I hate being without her. 

She is strange in that she rarely ever checks out guys. Guys that are "hot" don't attract her because she can always tell they are douchey. I am a very physically stimulated man and she is mentally stimulated. Maybe if she has an intellectual conversation with another man then she would "check him out". I am 100% straight as we have found out but I check out men a lot. I even point out to her. I mostly point out physically fit men. She never agrees and says they just look douchey. She just doesn't check others out. 

She has never caught me checking another woman out. I know about her insecurities so I always want her to feel as if I don't notice others. It's weird because occasionally she'll point out a cute girl and let me express that I think she's cute too. That's the strange thing. But most of the time that is not so.

As my "honesty" goes, I never say "I checked out 10 asses today" or "I saw the cutest girl ever today". It comes up when roommates or guys talk about checking out girls or other things. Then she wants my opinion and that's when I try to reply respectfully but honestly. I say something like " yeah, it's hard to not notice a beautiful woman but I don't go home and wish I could **** her", because that's what she usually thinks about checking out. She thinks we imagine having sex with them. 

I tell her all the time how beautiful she is and how much I love her. Insecurities come from porn too which she thinks means a man is not happy with his his wife looks. I have stopped watching porn for her but as many people know it's easy to relapse. I've had good times where I didn't watch for over 6 months and I've had worse times. Right now I haven't watched it since December and am hopeful. I was also honest and told her every time I relapsed. She had boyfriends before me that had serious porn addictions which really bothered her.

I also became a little sketchy with women when drinking alcohol. I gave up alcohol and haven't drank since 2013. I've never cheated on her and never kept a relationship away from her. If I meet a girl in class I tell her.

I try to be honest in all aspects of marriage. I try to correct my bad behaviors. And I try to make my wife feel beautiful because I honestly think she is. She even complains about weight now because she is a little chunkier than when I met her. We are talking 120lbs instead of 100. But I tell her I wouldn't change anything about her body and I'm being honest.


----------



## staarz21

I think everyone does this. I notice men and women alike. Sometimes, I am looking at a woman's hair, makeup, outfit, etc. Other times, I even notice her butt, waist, etc. I like to look out of curiosity. 

My H is no different. He looks. The problem with him a while back was that he did more than look. He almost wrecked our truck with me in it while staring at a girl in yoga pants. He tried to distract me in a grocery store so he could walk around a corner and get another oogle at a woman. He literally had me look at an item. He said, "hey look they still make these." I looked up at him and his neck was damn near broke trying to get another look. It was bad and embarrassing to me to have him just down right stare. 

I understand glancing and going "Huh....she's hot." and moving on. He didn't do that. He would look, look, look, look, and almost run into something before he would fix himself. 

He's better at it now, but he couldn't understand why I was hurt by this. I don't care about looking....but staring while I'm right there...come on, that's disrespectful.


----------



## vellocet

Kurious said:


> Backround info since I'm new here: I'm 26, college student, married 4 1/2 years, no kids, very active and fit.
> 
> Do other husbands out there check out other girls? My wife makes me feel like there is something wrong with me.



Everyone checks out everyone. If your wife ever said she doesn't, she is lying. She looks at a hot guy and secretly salivates from time to time, I guarantee.

Now the problem is that some people can't seem to keep their gawking to themselves.

So maybe you just do too much of a head turn when you do it, where she doesn't.


----------



## jaquen

jld said:


> I am not talking about even a fantasy. I am talking about feeding thoughts of other women, period.
> 
> I think it depends on the kind of person you want to be.
> 
> I know what checking out means. I know the difference between Oh, there's a nice-looking guy, as I walk right past him on my way to pick up bread, and turning around and staring because I am amazed a man like that ever walked through the doors of the supermarket where I shop.
> 
> I don't like myself when I turn around and look twice, even if I do it discreetly. It is not the kind of person I want to be. It does not make me feel good about myself.
> 
> I advise OP to think more about raising his standards for the kind of husband he wants to be. He can ask himself if he ever has a daughter, does he want her to marry someone like him.


You still are making a ton of assumptions about what you think others are doing when they "check out" another person.

Hint: Your husband's response is more typical than you imagine.


----------



## jaquen

Kurious said:


> I haven't finished reading all the replies yet because there were over 50. I'll do that in a second.
> 
> But here the deal. I have a total of 0 friends that are female. I am never around females really. Only at school and the gym, but I am very shy and never speak to any in the first place. So, it's not like I'm constantly with other women.
> 
> I don't go out on my own a lot. I much prefer to spend time with my wife. In fact I can't remember the last time I went out without her (excluding the gym) because I hate being without her.
> 
> She is strange in that she rarely ever checks out guys. Guys that are "hot" don't attract her because she can always tell they are douchey. I am a very physically stimulated man and she is mentally stimulated. Maybe if she has an intellectual conversation with another man then she would "check him out". I am 100% straight as we have found out but I check out men a lot. I even point out to her. I mostly point out physically fit men. She never agrees and says they just look douchey. She just doesn't check others out.
> 
> She has never caught me checking another woman out. I know about her insecurities so I always want her to feel as if I don't notice others. It's weird because occasionally she'll point out a cute girl and let me express that I think she's cute too. That's the strange thing. But most of the time that is not so.
> 
> As my "honesty" goes, I never say "I checked out 10 asses today" or "I saw the cutest girl ever today". It comes up when roommates or guys talk about checking out girls or other things. Then she wants my opinion and that's when I try to reply respectfully but honestly. I say something like " yeah, it's hard to not notice a beautiful woman but I don't go home and wish I could **** her", because that's what she usually thinks about checking out. She thinks we imagine having sex with them.
> 
> I tell her all the time how beautiful she is and how much I love her. Insecurities come from porn too which she thinks means a man is not happy with his his wife looks. I have stopped watching porn for her but as many people know it's easy to relapse. I've had good times where I didn't watch for over 6 months and I've had worse times. Right now I haven't watched it since December and am hopeful. I was also honest and told her every time I relapsed. She had boyfriends before me that had serious porn addictions which really bothered her.
> 
> I also became a little sketchy with women when drinking alcohol. I gave up alcohol and haven't drank since 2013. I've never cheated on her and never kept a relationship away from her. If I meet a girl in class I tell her.
> 
> I try to be honest in all aspects of marriage. I try to correct my bad behaviors. And I try to make my wife feel beautiful because I honestly think she is. She even complains about weight now because she is a little chunkier than when I met her. We are talking 120lbs instead of 100. But I tell her I wouldn't change anything about her body and I'm being honest.


You sound like a lot of women's dream husband.

Has your wife thought about seeking therapy? TBH you remind me a lot of one of my best friends, who I mentioned earlier. His wife's insecurities threaten to suck him dry, which is a shame, because several people really wonder how the hell she managed to attract such an incredible human being, who is so devoted to her, when she's such a mess and her insecurities create SO many huge problems. But then again, on some level she feels this way I believe, which only feeds her insecurities. 

You've given up a lot just to make her feel more secure. And she's still not. That's because you can't heal anybody else's insecurity problems. Best you can do is not feed into them, to a reasonable degree. But even then insecurity is NOT reasonable on any level.

Don't let this woman convince you that you're the problem. You are not.


----------



## unbelievable

thefam said:


> So bascially if your wife had a problem with you checking out women you would just say "deal with it". Im sure you are not alone in that philosophy. I think thats a pretty weak approach.


If my wife had a problem with me noticing attracting women I should have married an adult. Whatever my wife found attractive or interesting prior to meeting me, she still does She didn't get a lobotomy when she married me and nobody gouged her eyes out at the wedding. Who, over the age of 8 seriously believes their spouse went through some magical change during the wedding that made them blind?


----------



## jaquen

unbelievable said:


> Who, over the age of 8 seriously believes their spouse went through some magical change during the wedding that made them blind?


A startling amount of people.


----------



## jld

jaquen said:


> Your husband's response is more typical than you imagine.


I hope so. I genuinely hope that is true.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

staarz21 said:


> I think everyone does this. I notice men and women alike. Sometimes, I am looking at a woman's hair, makeup, outfit, etc. Other times, I even notice her butt, waist, etc. I like to look out of curiosity.
> 
> My H is no different. He looks. The problem with him a while back was that he did more than look. He almost wrecked our truck with me in it while staring at a girl in yoga pants. He tried to distract me in a grocery store so he could walk around a corner and get another oogle at a woman. He literally had me look at an item. He said, "hey look they still make these." I looked up at him and his neck was damn near broke trying to get another look. It was bad and embarrassing to me to have him just down right stare.
> 
> I understand glancing and going "Huh....she's hot." and moving on. He didn't do that. He would look, look, look, look, and almost run into something before he would fix himself.
> 
> He's better at it now, but he couldn't understand why I was hurt by this. I don't care about looking....but staring while I'm right there...come on, that's disrespectful.










... if my Man ever did that and wrecked the freaking car.. he'd be in the dog house a long long time.. Boy would I be bi*ching...it's kinda funny story but not when you're his girl sitting beside him!....

I had a guy wreck his car after hanging out the window whistling at me.. or maybe it was my Mom?!.. I was just 15 at the time... we high tailed it out of there!


----------



## Kurious

vellocet said:


> Everyone checks out everyone. If your wife ever said she doesn't, she is lying. She looks at a hot guy and secretly salivates from time to time, I guarantee.
> 
> Now the problem is that some people can't seem to keep their gawking to themselves.
> 
> So maybe you just do too much of a head turn when you do it, where she doesn't.


And then there are the outliers. She has mentioned a guy she thought attractive to me maybe 5 times in the 7 years we've been together. And if she does notice a guy it's not really ever physical. It is his face or genuine smile. I notice faces too, it is the first thing i notice in a woman. But tight pants and cleavage catch an eye too. That's where she thinks I am the problem. Probably because she doesn't look at physical features of a male. Even I do, I check out just as many guys at the gym as I do girls. And in class yesterday I was staring at this one guy most of class. He probably thought I was gay, but damn.. He was the most attractive guy i've seen in a while.

And I don't do "too much of a head turn". As i mentioned, she has never ever ever caught me looking or turning my head. The only times she called me out on it were times I actually didn't notice a girl.


----------



## Kurious

SimplyAmorous said:


> ... if my Man ever did that and wrecked the freaking car.. he'd be in the dog house a long long time.. Boy would I be bi*ching...it's kinda funny story but not when you're his girl sitting beside him!....
> 
> I had a guy wreck his car after hanging out the window whistling at me.. or maybe it was my Mom?!.. I was just 15 at the time... we high tailed it out of there!


I almost ran into the curb checking out a girl once. This was in 2007 though and I was checking out my girlfriend who is my current wife. That's the only close call I've had.


----------



## DoF

"Nothing is good when taken to the extreme" applies to honesty as well.

TOO honest is not good.

Don't share those thoughts with your wife. It is disrespectful and inappropriate, but you are a man and it's only natural that you look, imagine and wonder.

All you can do is really focus on managing your thoughts and deflecting them as they come.

Images, is something you cannot deflect, and yes, women go out of their way to show you things that should be private.....


----------



## Kurious

jaquen said:


> You sound like a lot of women's dream husband.
> 
> Has your wife thought about seeking therapy? TBH you remind me a lot of one of my best friends, who I mentioned earlier. His wife's insecurities threaten to suck him dry, which is a shame, because several people really wonder how the hell she managed to attract such an incredible human being, who is so devoted to her, when she's such a mess and her insecurities create SO many huge problems. But then again, on some level she feels this way I believe, which only feeds her insecurities.
> 
> You've given up a lot just to make her feel more secure. And she's still not. That's because you can't heal anybody else's insecurity problems. Best you can do is not feed into them, to a reasonable degree. But even then insecurity is NOT reasonable on any level.
> 
> Don't let this woman convince you that you're the problem. You are not.


People always tend to say the good things about themselves. I was thinking today of having marriage counseling. I don't speak up well for myself so when me and my wife talk, her side is always the right one.

I think one of the main problems with her insecurities is that she is the only woman I have ever been with. I am very physically fit and I'm an attractive male who can probably get a lot of girls. I am very insecure however which makes me feel weird typing what I just wrote. My wife and friends are the ones noticing girls check me out.

Anyways, my wife knows how physically stimulated I am by the female body. That's why she hates porn so much. She thinks the reason is because her body isn't good enough. She also knows I haven't been with anyone else. Me being naturally attracted to other women and having never been with other women is ultimately what I think brings out her insecurities. I am not sure what to do about this though.


----------



## DoF

Kurious said:


> And then there are the outliers. She has mentioned a guy she thought attractive to me maybe 5 times in the 7 years we've been together. And if she does notice a guy it's not really ever physical. It is his face or genuine smile. I notice faces too, it is the first thing i notice in a woman. But tight pants and cleavage catch an eye too. That's where she thinks I am the problem. Probably because she doesn't look at physical features of a male. Even I do, I check out just as many guys at the gym as I do girls. And in class yesterday I was staring at this one guy most of class. He probably thought I was gay, but damn.. He was the most attractive guy i've seen in a while.
> 
> And I don't do "too much of a head turn". As i mentioned, she has never ever ever caught me looking or turning my head. The only times she called me out on it were times I actually didn't notice a girl.


The thing is, men don't walk around with tight ass pants and ****s sticking out.

That would be a completely ridicules and inconsiderate......but NOT for women!

First they throw the **** in your face, then they wonder why you look.


----------



## michzz

OK, to the OP. There is noticing pretty women and then there is getting whiplash as you snap your head around to get a better look.

It's a matter of scale of response.

You can't leer, look longingly and sigh--in the presence of your spouse,

Get some self control.


----------



## Kurious

michzz said:


> OK, to the OP. There is noticing pretty women and then there is getting whiplash as you snap your head around to get a better look.
> 
> It's a matter of scale of response.
> 
> You can't leer, look longingly and sigh--in the presence of your spouse,
> 
> Get some self control.


Is no one actually reading my replies? I never do this around her. I will even forget checking out a girl if my wife is around. I show none of this in her presence. It's not worth making her feel insecure. 

And never do I get whiplash even when I am alone.


----------



## DoF

michzz said:


> Get some self control.


I don't think that's an issue with OP. He said he almost never looks at women in presence of his wife.

Being HONEST about his thoughts/actions etc is the issue.

Resolution: be careful how much of "your mind" sharing you do.


----------



## Kurious

DoF said:


> The thing is, men don't walk around with tight ass pants and ****s sticking out.
> 
> That would be a completely ridicules and inconsiderate......but NOT for women!
> 
> First they throw the **** in your face, then they wonder why you look.


I meant it differently. Women can have pronounced physical features, and men can be tall or be physically fit. Obviously a woman won't be trying to look at a guys ****, but she may look at his build. My wife however, does not do this. She doesn't care for physical attributes much.


----------



## DoF

Kurious said:


> Is no one actually reading my replies? I never do this around her. I will even forget checking out a girl if my wife is around. I show none of this in her presence. It's not worth making her feel insecure.


So do the same with your thoughts/mind.

 

Just like she does.....not for a second you believe that she doesn't, she just loves you too much/respects you to much and knows that sharing that would only hurt you.


----------



## DoF

Kurious said:


> I meant it differently. Women can have pronounced physical features, and men can be tall or be physically fit. Obviously a woman won't be trying to look at a guys ****, but she may look at his build. My wife however, does not do this. She doesn't care for physical attributes much.


She does, she just cannot match the #s between men and women (let's face it, women have so much more to show/offer)....AND she doesn't want to hurt you by telling you the truth.


----------



## michzz

michzz said:


> OK, to the OP. There is noticing pretty women and then there is getting whiplash as you snap your head around to get a better look.
> 
> It's a matter of scale of response.
> 
> You can't leer, look longingly and sigh--in the presence of your spouse,
> 
> Get some self control.





Kurious said:


> Is no one actually reading my replies? I never do this around her. I will even forget checking out a girl if my wife is around. I show none of this in her presence. It's not worth making her feel insecure.
> 
> And never do I get whiplash even when I am alone.





DoF said:


> I don't think that's an issue with OP. He said he almost never looks at women in presence of his wife.
> 
> Being HONEST about his thoughts/actions etc is the issue.
> 
> Resolution: be careful how much of "your mind" sharing you do.


OK, my bad. Basically, you should not be sharing your thoughts about pretty women you see with your wife.

I'm not suggesting you not answer a direct question, but if you volunteer that you saw a woman with nice jugs at the beach and couldn't keep your eyes off her, that would just be stupid.


----------



## richie33

People say they want honesty, full transparency, know whats on your mind....OP has learned thats not the way to go.


----------



## unbelievable

michzz said:


> OK, my bad. Basically, you should not be sharing your thoughts about pretty women you see with your wife.
> 
> I'm not suggesting you not answer a direct question, but if you volunteer that you saw a woman with nice jugs at the beach and couldn't keep your eyes off her, that would just be stupid.


This ought to be taught to all men before they get married. A little stealth avoids loads of drama. You still have radar and it still picks up targets but you don't have to sound the alarm or launch any missiles.


----------



## Kurious

By the way, she doesn't hold back checking out guys to spare my feelings. I couldn't care less if she went up to a hot guy in a bar and kissed him and she knows that. She pointed out a hot guy one time and I told her to go tell him he was cute. I am the opposite of jealous which she knows. So when she "hardly ever" checks out guys, I'm pretty positive it's truth.
I remember one instance we were somewhere and we wanted to point out who the cutest guys/girls were. I saw plenty of attractive women and she said none of the guys were cute. I was like wtf, I saw at least a few good looking dudes. She said they look like douche bags. Something is wrong with her brain. I'm pretty douchey and she likes me. lol.


----------



## richie33

You wouldnt have a problem if your wife went up to a " hot " guy and kissed him? You should rethink that. That might be one of your issues in your marriage.


----------



## Marduk

When you get married, you agree to share your life and posessions with that person.

What happens in your grey matter is your business unless you decide to share it. My wife doesn't own my thoughts, fantasies, or anything else of the sort. And vice versa.


----------



## Kurious

michzz said:


> OK, my bad. Basically, you should not be sharing your thoughts about pretty women you see with your wife.
> 
> I'm not suggesting you not answer a direct question, but if you volunteer that you saw a woman with nice jugs at the beach and couldn't keep your eyes off her, that would just be stupid.


I never volunteer information about a woman I saw. I don't mention anyone in particular. All she knows is that she doesn't catch me but she knows I notice attractive women when I am not around her. She has a big problem with asses. Asses are bad to look at. I never explicitly say I look at them but she knows I do. I love hers so much and she knows other may have nice ones too.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Wolf1974 said:


> While I would hope we could all agree that leering or making rude comments to your partner is over the top and should not be tolerated at all from either gender I didn't get that sense from the OPs post he was doing that. His description, which granted is one sided, seems that this comes from insecurity of his wife. To the point that he has to lie about seeing a woman? That to me sounds borderline like a **** test.
> 
> *I have never personally been with a woman who was this level of insecure that lying was involved but I have had friends that have. One of which had to quit our gym because of the number of hot girls who worked out in yoga pants apparently. I was with him when we lifted and he checked out women less often than I did. But this was an issue for her the ONE time she joined us and she had him quit. * Certainly his choice to stay with someone like this but was also her insecurity.


Your guy friend sounded like a GOOD MAN....I think many insecurities stem from prior experiences where a BF or GF wasn't treated right (or even a spouses lousy disconnected treatment ).... then when another enters into that picture, too often they have to wade through these things.. many DO need extra care.... to be shown they are NOT like the prior BF or GF....that they really are prized , very special and deeply wanted by who is in their lives NOW..... 

Hopefully we all GIVE JUST THIS to our mates... that no one ...and I mean no one can replace who is beside us in our







's...


----------



## DoF

Kurious said:


> By the way, she doesn't hold back checking out guys to spare my feelings. I couldn't care less if she went up to a hot guy in a bar and kissed him and she knows that.


Don't ever say that to her......REALLY? 

If you say that, it basically tells her that you don't love her/care about her.

She might not respect you as much....heck she WONT


----------



## norajane

DoF said:


> Don't ever say that to her......REALLY?
> 
> If you say that, it basically tells her that you don't love her/care about her.
> 
> She might not respect you as much....heck she WONT


And it will fuel her fears that you might cheat on her. If you don't care if she kisses some guy in a bar, then she has to assume that your boundaries include kissing women in bars.

Suddenly, her jealous fears all make sense.


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## staarz21

If he doesn't care if she went up to a hot guy and kissed him in a bar...I think I know why she is insecure about him looking at other women. In her mind it might be the mentality of "Well, he doesn't care if I go and kiss a hot guy because he wants to go kiss a hot girl." 

That just screams, "I don't really care about you." Unless of course, you have an open relationship...which you don't. 

Having his wife know that he doesn't care if she goes and kisses another man is bad juju.


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## optimalprimus

I check everyone out, but eyes linger on an attractive woman for a bit longer I guess. I'm fairly surreptitious about it I guess, although on public transport you occasionally get rumbled, or catch the other person checking you out at the same time. When younger I would smile in that situation but now I just look away sharpish!

EDIT: On reading the thread it seems like you and your girlfriend have some pretty major communication problems. best talk about what you both want from the relationship and what boundaries you can agree.


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## Runs like Dog

I for one am sick of the Thought Police. If we look we're sexist and cruel, if we don't we're being passive aggressive. Tell you what - I won't hold your purse and you don't have to walk behind me 10 paces.


----------



## Amplexor

"The world has gotten so PC it's ****'n ridiculous. You can't even walk up to a woman on the street and say You've got a nice rack. Sheesh, you can't even be a nice guy any more."

- Andrew Dice Clay


----------



## optimalprimus

Runs like Dog said:


> I for one am sick of the Thought Police. If we look we're sexist and cruel, if we don't we're being passive aggressive. Tell you what - I won't hold your purse and you don't have to walk behind me 10 paces.


LOL to be honest how often does that problem actually arise - its a bit of a construct no?. I've never heard a real live woman complaining that she caught some bloke looking at her. Staring for more than a few seconds, or muttering "hot" under your breath is of course another matter.


----------



## Runs like Dog

optimalprimus said:


> LOL to be honest how often does that problem actually arise - its a bit of a construct no?. I've never heard a real live woman complaining that she caught some bloke looking at her. Staring for more than a few seconds, or muttering "hot" under your breath is of course another matter.


I hear plenty of that from or among women talking amongst themselves. People are VERY insecure about their looks and when someone looks at them they panic. After that they tell their friends it made them angry because THEY didn't feel they looked their best.


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## AlphaMale74

I check out other women all the time and my wife knows I do. It's completely normal for men to do this since we are visual. However, glaring at and lusting after other women is inappropriate and is a cause for concern.


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## Kurious

norajane said:


> And it will fuel her fears that you might cheat on her. If you don't care if she kisses some guy in a bar, then she has to assume that your boundaries include kissing women in bars.
> 
> Suddenly, her jealous fears all make sense.


I've never told her she can go up and kiss someone. Its more that she knows I am not jealous at all. If a guy looks at her or hits on her I see it as a compliment (as long as they are being respectful). The time I told her to tell the guy she thought was cute, she told him "Look, I'm married and my husband is over there, but you are really cute. You look like a really nice guy too". That was about the gist of it. 

I never hit on women nor do I have the confidence to if I wanted.


----------



## Anonymous07

Kurious said:


> Backround info since I'm new here: I'm 26, college student, married 4 1/2 years, no kids, very active and fit.
> 
> Do other husbands out there check out other girls? My wife makes me feel like there is something wrong with me. Like I'm a terrible person. I don't go to the gym with the mission of checking out ass. I don't go to the beach to see girls half naked. But it is hard to not notice girls who i think are beautiful if they come into sight. I feel like it's something I can't help. My wife has always wanted me to be honest with her in our relationship and my honesty causes many problems for us. It's always devastating to her that I check out others. She never catches me but she knows I do because I'm honest. The only solution I can think of is to drop out of school, join an all mens gym, stay inside, etc. Or... Just lie to her and say I don't check out others. Do other men just lie about this? My wife has a serious serious issue with jealousy.
> 
> I'm at a loss here because we got in a fight over this again and I have no idea what to do.


Ok, I didn't read through all 6 pages, so ignore this if it has already been talked about. 

There is a big difference between looking at other women and ogling other women. Obviously you're not blind, so you're going to notice other women, but there is a way to do so that is respectful of your wife. Are you staring for long periods of time at these women, really checking them out? Are you giving them the up and down, lusting after them? All of that is completely inappropriate. 

I know my husband looks at other women and I don't have an issue with it, but that also has to do with his behavior. He is a very respectful man who never ogles at other women, just a quick look and really has eyes for me, making me feel wanted/beautiful. If he acted differently, I don't know if I would feel as secure in our marriage.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Kurious said:


> I've never told her she can go up and kiss someone. *Its more that she knows I am not jealous at all.* If a guy looks at her or hits on her I see it as a compliment (as long as they are being respectful). The time I told her to tell the guy she thought was cute, she told him "Look, I'm married and my husband is over there, but you are really cute. You look like a really nice guy too". That was about the gist of it.
> 
> I never hit on women nor do I have the confidence to if I wanted.


I would feel something was terribly amiss if my H DIDN'T get jealous over something like that (kissing another man)..... many women feel this way if their men has some sort of fantasy seeing HER with another man...LIKE "







*doesn't he care!*"... 

Something like that would rip my H's heart out.. and I feel this is GOOD ! It's not insecurity, it's about the deepness we share!

I feel there is Healthy jealousy.. and Unhealthy jealousy.. given this link ...(if you're not a Christian, just overlook the references to God.. it's something I feel is very balanced -for marriages anyway- on this subject)... 



> Healthy and unhealthy jealousy
> 
> *Jealousy*. It affects every marriage at one time or another. In fact, in a nationwide survey, marriage counsellors said jealousy is a problem for one-third of all couples they counsel.
> 
> Whether it’s a mild or major case, jealousy can have a big impact on your relationship. You may feel jealousy when you experience the heightened threat from a rival. Most of us become jealous when we see our spouse having a great time with a person of the opposite sex – especially if that person seems a little too friendly. No matter how much your spouse may attempt to reassure you, another person’s interest in him or her raises all your red flags.
> 
> *Two types of jealousy*
> 
> Jealousy can be either healthy or unhealthy. Healthy jealousy is a means to guard your territory and comes from a sincere care and commitment to a relationship. On the other hand, unhealthy jealousy manifests itself through lies, threats, self-pity, and feelings of inadequacy, inferiority and insecurity.
> 
> The good kind -
> 
> *Healthy jealousy guards the heart of a marriage because it*:
> 
> * shows your commitment to the relationship
> * protects your marriage by safeguarding the relationship against evil attacks
> * deepens your openness with each other and makes you accountable through honest communication
> * helps you confront major threats to your marriage and head them off before they become major problems
> 
> God calls you to respect your spouse’s jealousy that is a warning of danger ahead. If your spouse is a secure person and desires to protect your marriage against cracks, you need to listen. Confront the issue head-on by finding the reason for the jealousy, then making changes to keep you both out of danger.
> 
> *Wives*: Trust your husband’s instincts. He knows how men think, what they want and how they pursue it. So, it would be foolish of you not to heed his warning.
> 
> *Men*: Trust your wife’s instincts. If she suggests that another woman is behaving inappropriately, your wife is probably right. Most women have radar, an innate alertness to nonverbal communication and an ability to translate body language and tone into emotional facts. Your wife probably is able to see these things clearly, so don’t criticize or blame her warnings on insecurity.
> 
> The bad -
> 
> *Unhealthy jealousy is altogether different.* It stems from comparing yourself to others and feeling inadequate, unimportant, inferior and pitiful. Some spouses have experienced a lot of loss in life – whether divorce, death or abandonment in childhood – and they may bring unresolved issues into the relationship in the form of jealousy. Yet when a person carries this jealousy to pathological extremes, it will dominate a relationship.
> 
> A chronically jealous spouse will try to control a relationship through exaggeration, self-pity, lies, threats and/or manipulation. When the other partner resists, the jealous person reacts by becoming even more controlling. Then the other partner resists further by confiding in a friend or seeking relief outside the marriage. Sometimes this can become a downward spiral.
> 
> *Here are just some of the effects of unhealthy jealousy:*
> 
> * You doubt your spouse’s honesty and wrongfully accuse him or her, pushing your spouse away.
> * You feel worthless and unimportant.
> * You become frustrated and overwhelmed.
> * You have a desire to control.
> * You have less sexual intimacy with your spouse.
> 
> When jealousy becomes unhealthy it is destructive and frustrating to contend with. Love is not jealous and possessive. True love enables you to aim for what is best for the other person – not what is best for you....


----------



## tacoma

jld said:


> Never seen as much as a glance. Do not know how to describe it any other way.


My wife would probably say the same thing.
You can't help but notice a person that you are instantly attracted to.

If I see a woman who is attractive to me two things happen...

-My mind thinks.."She's hot" or She's cute"
-I then go on my merry way without a backwards glance because it just isn't that big a deal to me.

I never understood the whole guy thing about ogling pretty women.

I didn't do it when I was single either 
I just don't see the point for many reasons.

First and foremost it's pretty damned unattractive.
If I really think a girl is hot then overtly ogling her is about the very worst way to ever have a shot with her.
I find it demeaning (to myself)
I think guys who do it are ..well...I lose a bit of respect for them when they point it out and expect me to eat it up.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Everyone notices others, but most people who aren't stupid or jerks know enough to be discreet. People that stick it in the face of their partner are insecure and pathetic themselves.....strong, confident people don't feel the need.

One time we were watching tv and my hb went out of his way to tell me how hot he thought the actress was while he leered at her. I told him "good for you", gave him an eye roll, and got up and walked away. Never said a word beyond that. Guess what? Didn't happen again. I'm cool with you looking because as others have pointed out we're all alive and human, I look too, but don't be an arse about it. I don't even know that I feel insecure about it, but I did find the whole thing to be rude.

I don't even know how this conversation comes up if one is discreet. OP, did she flat out ask you if you look at other women? That's a strange question to ask someone.


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## ConanHub

Kurious said:


> I've never told her she can go up and kiss someone. Its more that she knows I am not jealous at all. If a guy looks at her or hits on her I see it as a compliment (as long as they are being respectful). The time I told her to tell the guy she thought was cute, she told him "Look, I'm married and my husband is over there, but you are really cute. You look like a really nice guy too". That was about the gist of it.
> 
> I never hit on women nor do I have the confidence to if I wanted.


Your attitude is a bit off dude. She probably doesn't feel special or cherished by you. You almost sound like a budding swinger.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vellocet

Kurious said:


> By the way, she doesn't hold back checking out guys to spare my feelings.


So she's a hypocrite?




> I couldn't care less if she went up to a hot guy in a bar and kissed him and she knows that.


Uh....really?




> She pointed out a hot guy one time and I told her to go tell him he was cute.


Ok, so its a problem if you simply check out another woman...but she can take it a step further and bring it to your attention?


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## Anonymous07

Kurious said:


> I've never told her she can go up and kiss someone. Its more that she knows I am not jealous at all. If a guy looks at her or hits on her I see it as a compliment (as long as they are being respectful). The time I told her to tell the guy she thought was cute, she told him "Look, I'm married and my husband is over there, but you are really cute. You look like a really nice guy too". That was about the gist of it.
> 
> I never hit on women nor do I have the confidence to if I wanted.


Why did you tell her to go tell that other guy he was cute? I find that very strange. 

I think the word jealousy is always looked at negatively, but there should be some jealousy in a relationship. It should make you jealous/uncomfortable to see your wife wanting to go after another man. Those feelings help protect your marriage. If you tell her all the time that you have absolutely "no jealousy", then it can make her feel not cared for. 

I have no issue with my husband looking at other women, but I would never want him to go up to the woman to tell her she's pretty nor any other similar actions. The only woman my husband longingly checks out is me. I also do the same to him.


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## flyer

A couple years ago, we were at an airshow. My mom (82), dad (83), & I were walking on the "ramp". We met/passed a young, good lookin girl. My dad turned to my mom and said "You suppose she'd let me check her for ticks?"


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## tangled123

SimplyAmorous said:


> I would feel something was terribly amiss if my H DIDN'T get jealous over something like that (kissing another man)..... many women feel this way if their men has some sort of fantasy seeing HER with another man...LIKE "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *doesn't he care!*"...
> 
> :iagree:


----------



## DoF

Kurious said:


> I've never told her she can go up and kiss someone. Its more that she knows I am not jealous at all. If a guy looks at her or hits on her I see it as a compliment (as long as they are being respectful). The time I told her to tell the guy she thought was cute, she told him "Look, I'm married and my husband is over there, but you are really cute. You look like a really nice guy too". That was about the gist of it.


What's the point of this? 

Put yourself in this guys shoes, if some married woman walked up to you and said that.........not sure about you, but although I would be thankful for her complement, I would still think that she is weird....and her husband is even weirder.

Almost seems like you have some kind of a ****old fantasy.....


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## *LittleDeer*

She's checking out other guys to try and get a rise out of you. To make you jealous. 

Really insecure/ crazy jealous is bad- however a little bit of protectiveness and jealousy is good. It shows you notice each other, you care, you don't want your spouse with someone else etc

You are feeding her insecurities. It's normal to register good looking people- not normal to get whiplash. Be respectful- make her feel like the most beautiful and sexy woman on earth. 

JMO


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## SoWhat

I check out other women nearly all the time. I don't feel the slightest bit ashamed of it. 

When don't I? When I'm with my wife. Kim Kardashian could walk by us in the street, stark naked, and I'd manage to keep my eyes locked in on the wife. 

You're a man and checking out women is natural. But you can also be tactical about it.


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## SimplyAmorous

SoWhat said:


> I check out other women nearly all the time. I don't feel the slightest bit ashamed of it.
> 
> *When don't I? When I'm with my wife. Kim Kardashian could walk by us in the street, stark naked, and I'd manage to keep my eyes locked in on the wife. *
> 
> You're a man and checking out women is natural. But you can also be tactical about it.


If this was me & my Husband.. *we would both be looking* and think absolutely nothing of it. I KNOW the way he is WITH ME , is the same way he acts when I am not there.... and this is true of me also...I like it that way...

I guess everyone has a comfort level.. Leering.... BAD.. too friendly / obvious flirtation..BAD.... tongue hanging out ...BAD..

Looking when someone physically beautiful walks past.... I'd think there was something wrong with him if he didn't look !


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## naiveonedave

I agree SA!

Don't be gross, but to pretend you don't look is a lie.


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## vellocet

*LittleDeer* said:


> She's checking out other guys to try and get a rise out of you. To make you jealous.


We all know that is the ONLY reason women do this. No way they check out other guys because they actually DO find them attractive.




> Really insecure/ crazy jealous is bad- however a little bit of protectiveness and jealousy is good. It shows you notice each other, you care, you don't want your spouse with someone else etc


With that I absolutely agree :smthumbup:


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## frankman

Wife of my fishing buddy not only looks, she points them out to her husband AND does it subtly enough he can look too.

OTOH if any interaction happens she gets EXTREMELY possessive. I guess to her looking is okay but touching or talking is not. Once when out she poured a full pitcher of beer on a young woman who would not leave her husband alone after a couple of times being told to go away.


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## ConanHub

frankman said:


> Wife of my fishing buddy not only looks, she points them out to her husband AND does it subtly enough he can look too.
> 
> OTOH if any interaction happens she gets EXTREMELY possessive. I guess to her looking is okay but touching or talking is not. Once when out she poured a full pitcher of beer on a young woman who would not leave her husband alone after a couple of times being told to go away.


LOL!! Awesome story frankman!!! &#55357;&#56833;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trini

My husband and I have had a lot of issues because o this topic. Now he doesn't comment on women anymore but he used to with his friends in front of me!! Now he knows better. Sometimes I think men just need to learn boundaries we women set them and grow more mature and respectful with time. He used to say stuff like, "wow its a coc.kfes.t here tonight, you should go upstairs Bob (his friend)." When I thought why say that to his friend in front of me later on he said he was just trying to help his friend who is single?? I get it though, he was just used to having single friends and not being used to being married yet. Now he doesn't do that. Another example, he used to say oh man that chick thinks she is real hot and joke with his buddies about women in front of me when we went clubbing or out in the casinos. I again thought that was inappropriate. He doesn't do that anymore either. Although he must have been used to talking about women and their bodies with his buddies in the bars, gym etc. as his friends are also a little in the objectifying women side, I think he knows it will hurt my feelings and make me feel bad so he has stopped. We had very different lines on what is appropriate and what not. He still thinks I am a little too insecure and jealous as he never would have even talked to let alone hooked up with any of the women he noticed or commented on with his friends. And he thought these comments were harmless. But for me it is very inappropriate and I have different boundaries. He gets that and had stopped commenting on them even if his friends do. Although he never does it in front of me, I don't know for sure if he has stopped with his friends too but he says he has. Sometimes I feel bad for him as I am sure it is a hassle to have to deal with me and also his friends. They have no idea that I have a problem and prob continue talking about women in the gym as he has a few guys he works out with. He even told his friends to stop sending him pictures of actresses and commenting about women for me. However a little part of me does wonder if he doesn't talk about women in the gym when I am not there  While I could ditch this relationship and be with someone who shares my bouderies I am not able to do this as I love my husband too much. Leaving someone over such a small thing is not mature and all this will fizzle out with maturity too and when his friends also get married and are more mature. In the beginning we used to fight about it, now he just accepts that I feel bad about it so he has stopped, I accept that he is a man and will look but he has stopped talking for my sake. Thats where we are at right now. Where we need to improve on is: I think HE feels I ask too much from him (getting mad over his friends making comments in gym and suspecting that he has not changed, questioning him) and for me he makes me feel like I am burdening him too much and he resents me, plus him making those initial mistakes made me see him in a different way and suspect if he is really changed.


----------



## OctaveAce

Kurious said:


> Backround info since I'm new here: I'm 26, college student, married 4 1/2 years, no kids, very active and fit.
> 
> Do other husbands out there check out other girls? My wife makes me feel like there is something wrong with me. Like I'm a terrible person. I don't go to the gym with the mission of checking out ass. I don't go to the beach to see girls half naked. But it is hard to not notice girls who i think are beautiful if they come into sight. I feel like it's something I can't help. My wife has always wanted me to be honest with her in our relationship and my honesty causes many problems for us. It's always devastating to her that I check out others. She never catches me but she knows I do because I'm honest. The only solution I can think of is to drop out of school, join an all mens gym, stay inside, etc. Or... Just lie to her and say I don't check out others. Do other men just lie about this? My wife has a serious serious issue with jealousy.
> 
> I'm at a loss here because we got in a fight over this again and I have no idea what to do.


Honesty can be something that's tough to deal with but in the long run she'll be able to believe you when tougher things come up. Just continue to tell the truth and maybe add that you find her more attractive then the other women and that she has nothing to worry about?


----------



## Catherine602

It amazes me that you are using up your precious love capital on something so stupid. It's so simple - When she is with you, don't look. Otherwise look all you want and don't tell her. Don't pretend innocence. Every man knows that even beautiful women are insecure about their looks. Insecure men play it up to make themselves feel like men. You need to find out why you stake you manhood on looking at random woman in front of your wife to make her cry. So uselessly pitiful. 

You have not been married long so maybe you still have time to turn this around. Many men squander the trust they should be building in the early stages of their marriage and then come to a place like TAM with stories about how their wives disregard their feelings by year 10. Think about it. You are both going to sow the from the seeds you are planting now. If your wife's feeling are not a priority, your feeling will be way down on her list once you turn her feelings off.

You relationship moto should be "If it means something to one of you then it means something to both". It's a partnership you are building not a gender battlefield. Your wife's insecurities are your concern or they will be when you pay the price for intensifying them. You don't think this will effect you adversely in the future? What is it - you just don't care, or you have a secret contempt for female insecurities. You should not have gotten married. Then again, you would not have a captive to play cruel games with.


----------



## Hydin

It comes down to a really simple answer that only you can give.... Are you willing to risk your marriage over talking about other women?

you admit alcohol and women caused some sort of issue until less than 2 years ago in a 4.5 year marriage.... you mention porn which still continues... It is Hard... Bull - Stop.... there is plenty of free help on line. Put a photo of your wife taped to your computer screen and as your screen saver on your phone....(fully clothed). If you look at porn you are lusting.. never good.. you also will expect her to do what they do and wonder why she doesn't... are you also masturbating when watching porn?? or worse hitting on her? You are young... I have literally been where you are so I know of what I speak... wish I had learned those lessons long ago. 


for the porn get an accountability site where if you access porn she gets an email..... give her your passwords to all your emails and sites and let her check up on you... you want to stop, right? If not quit the lie. I wonder if you use the other women to somehow dig at your wife when it suits you. if so stop. You are not the first man to have to make these choices. If you are really honest you would admit it would crush you if your wife suddenly started doing what you are doing. Focus on her, not yourself....You married her, you vowed to stand by her and be faithful... all the time, not just when hot chicks or roommates are around. If you have a faith then you checking out women is adultry... no guy checks out a women because she has great fashion sense.... Put the same dress on a hot babe and a 300 lb women and you reaction will not be the same. 

Your choice... your wife's happiness or yours... choose wisely... but don't expect her to understand you anymore than you are working to understand and honor her wishes....marriage start to crumble when the parties think they "deserve" something.... When thoughts of I become stronger than the spouse... you have can find many failings and use them as weapons....


----------



## RandomDude

Kurious said:


> Backround info since I'm new here: I'm 26, college student, married 4 1/2 years, no kids, very active and fit.
> 
> Do other husbands out there check out other girls? My wife makes me feel like there is something wrong with me. Like I'm a terrible person. I don't go to the gym with the mission of checking out ass. I don't go to the beach to see girls half naked. But it is hard to not notice girls who i think are beautiful if they come into sight. I feel like it's something I can't help. My wife has always wanted me to be honest with her in our relationship and my honesty causes many problems for us. It's always devastating to her that I check out others. She never catches me but she knows I do because I'm honest. The only solution I can think of is to drop out of school, join an all mens gym, stay inside, etc. Or... Just lie to her and say I don't check out others. Do other men just lie about this? My wife has a serious serious issue with jealousy.
> 
> I'm at a loss here because we got in a fight over this again and I have no idea what to do.


Tell your wife that we as men are able to notice beautiful people without wanting to ram them! Just like women can notice beautiful women and be completely straight, or find men handsome and not automatically spread their legs.

In other words, tell her to wake up, we are human too!!!
Sheez... also, known fact: Women check out other women more than men check 'em out - so there! Bah!

Wait... have I already replied to this topic? Meh, can't remember...


----------



## JCD

According to some women, this is male license to just indulge their little fantasies any time they want and they are essentially telling their spouses to suck it.

According to most men, it's pretty harmless and almost instinctive.

The fact that almost every man in Creation says they do this (with the few dissenters stating that, yes, sometimes it is a struggle NOT to do this) should suggest to the persuadable that maybe it's a hardwired instinct.

Maybe. Women still rightly feel put upon about all this, instinctive or not.

Simple answer. Shut up about other women. 

Be honest. But here is a credo: don't ask questions you don't want answers to which might upset you.

So if she asks, tell. But tell her she is stupid to ask.

And remember...don't kid yourself. If one of the Buns of Steel came up and talked to you, you'd relish the attention. Keep it in your pants and lead with 'I'm married' just to keep yourself honest.


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## Of A Certain Age

Don’t: ogle, leer, stare, turn around when a woman walks by to check out ‘dat ass,’ or make detailed comments. Don’t stop talking mid-sentence to look at a woman. If your wife catches you looking, you might say “she’s pretty” or some other non-sexual comment. (My own husband used to say “I thought that was so-and- so’s sister” or “I thought I went to school with her.” I would just laugh at him.)

Do: “Check out” your wife. Frequently. In public and in private, when she’s dressed for a night out and when she’s wearing her housecleaning sweats with the stains and holes and has last night’s mascara under her eyes. Make sure she catches you. If you catch someone checking out your wife, smile widely at him (or her) and put your arm around her in the unspoken attitude of “yeah, she’s hot. And she’s all mine.”


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## Constable Odo

The problem I find with looking at attractive women these days is oftentimes they are younger than my daughter and I feel like a pedophile


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## always_alone

Catherine602 said:


> Think about it. You are both going to sow the from the seeds you are planting now. If your wife's feeling are not a priority, your feeling will be way down on her list once you turn her feelings off.


I like to think of it this way: what's good for the gander is good for the goose. If it's fine for him to be spending his time enjoying other women, it's fine for me to be spending my time enjoying other men. If he can look all he wants keeping it secret from me, then I get to too. 

The more he can invest in other women, the more I can invest in other men. I will not apologize for keeping my options open when he deliberately saves that right for himself. 

Of course, it's also fairly obvious where the downside of all of this lies.


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## Wolf1974

always_alone said:


> I like to think of it this way: what's good for the gander is good for the goose. If it's fine for him to be spending his time enjoying other women, it's fine for me to be spending my time enjoying other men. If he can look all he wants keeping it secret from me, then I get to too.
> 
> *The more he can invest in other women, the more I can invest in other men. I will not apologize for keeping my options open when he deliberately saves that right for himself.
> *
> Of course, it's also fairly obvious where the downside of all of this lies.


a normal guy has no investiment in looking at an attractive woman. I live in one on the healthiest states in the US. Attractive women everywhere. Shall I keep my options open for each and every one? 

If you can't look at an attractive male without it being an "investiment" then it's not the guy who has the issue.


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## Daniel.

Check out, don't leer or stare. Question is, are you ok if she check out other man ? Basically, there should be a balance


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## Constable Odo

always_alone said:


> The more he can invest in other women, the more I can invest in other men. I will not apologize for keeping my options open when he deliberately saves that right for himself.


I do not understand this logic. How is appreciating a woman's beauty "investing" anything in other women?

The concept that I will stop finding women other than my SO physically attractive, simply because I am in an exclusive relationship with her is ludicrous.

Now, naturally, I would not ogle another woman with her in my presence, merely because it would be disrespectful to her, and I have the utmost respect for her and she deserves to be treated with respect and dignity. But, otherwise, if Hannah Davis happened to walk by me, I certainly would appreciate what a healthy, attractive woman she is.

It is my experience that women who get upset with their mates finding other women attractive have innate body-image or self-esteem issues, and feel threatened that their mates' instinctive appreciation of another woman's beauty threatening.

I fully expect my SO to find other men physically attractive. When she tells me about the guy at the supermarket behind the meat counter with arms the size of spiral hams, and how all the ladies stand there ordering cold-cuts they don't even need so they can drool while he flexes his biceps, I tell her I too could have arms the size of a garbage can and perhaps I should start doing curls with my framing nailers.

I'm not threatened by the fact she finds other men attractive. To attempt to deny this would be an attempt to deny a fundamental, innate instinctive behaviour in the human animal. We are constantly, even subconsciously, evaluating members of the opposite sex we interact with as potential breeding prospects. 

Acting on those instincts are an entirely different matter.

In the end, I'm content in the knowledge she chooses to be with and share her life with me. If she really wanted to be with Mr. Spiral-Ham arms, at a basic level there's nothing I could really do about it, and why would I want to be with a woman who doesn't want to be with me anyway?


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## Catherine602

Sometimes I read the responses from male posters and I want to kiss my husbands feet. Lucked out big time - he is not a paper tiger.

This is not about men looking at women, it's about the relationship between these two people. I think she should let this go but also adjust her expectations and reaction to his insecurities. There are probably many. Treat him with the same understanding of his feelings as he treats her. Don't give more than she gets. 

If he is silly enough to think that her headache at 9PM means she does not love him, she should tel him to get over it the same way he expects her to get over his right to stare at woman and make her feel unloved. Women get headaches, grow tired and menstruate, deal with it.. She should not ever put his feelings higher than he puts her's. If he choses a relationship where he can pick and choose what he will do based on self interest then she should do the same. 

They could of course form a team and accommodate each other on many issues. They could do it out of love, understanding, and empathy.


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## vellocet

Catherine602 said:


> They could of course form a team and accommodate each other on many issues. They could do it out of love, understanding, and empathy.


Bingo!


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## always_alone

Constable Odo said:


> I do not understand this logic. How is appreciating a woman's beauty "investing" anything in other women?


There is finding people attractive, and there is "checking out". Then there is active drooling and leering. After that comes imagining sex with them or constructing fantasies around them. Maybe some flirting and attention-seeking. Each of those steps involves more and more investment.

All I am saying is that if he is keeping his options open, so am I, and if he cares nothing for my feelings, well neither do I.

I'm glad to hear you respect your wife. Hopefully this also applies to Hannah Davis. For me, the issue is not just relevant to the wife or partner, but also the object of the "checking out".


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## Catherine602

It's difficult to blend lives of two people because you have no idea of the effect of their views and experiences on their behavior and feelings. 

Some of the things that are important to my husband came as a complete surprise to me. Having some complex mechanical thing to fix is very important to him. It consumes his thoughts at times of stress. I don't understand why. 

It's important to me now too. Because paying attention to his feelings makes me love him more. Sounds strange but I think that attaching meaning to the needs, fears, joys and insecurities of others even when you don't feel the same, opens your heart past the narrow concerns of your own needs. It dissolves separateness to a degree. 

What's important to him is vitally important to me. This feeling started in small ways from the beginning of our life together and with every successful negotiation, it grows stronger. 

The talk of this woman insecurities as trivial may be right to outsiders who are not trying to form a bond with her. But to the OP, it's not trivial because they are blending their lives. He will not love her if he persist in making her feel separate and anxious about their union. It takes years to really get to know a person you love. Each person rolls out their inner lives sequentially. 

If you shut them down too often, and declare your right to please yourself, you end up with an adversary in your own home. Each person declaring their independence and primacy of their needs. That's may be an average relationship. But it could be better if the framework were different, if the aim was to blend lives and not coexist. How could staring at women or men take up so much landscape Vs. making the relationship a safe harbor?


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## Constable Odo

always_alone said:


> There is finding people attractive, and there is "checking out". Then there is active drooling and leering. After that comes imagining sex with them or constructing fantasies around them. Maybe some flirting and attention-seeking. Each of those steps involves more and more investment.


You're making an extreme leap from one level of interest to another, and assigning some abstract level of "investment" concocted in your own mind to each of those "levels".

The human animal has a inherent desire to procreate. Its instinctive behavior in our genetic makeup. That means every single member of the opposite sex we interact with we evaluate, at least once, as a potential mate.

As a woman, you do it too, even if you don't realize it, or more likely, don't want to admit to it.

When a man looks at a woman who is attractive, and evaluates her as a potential mate, part of that evaluation process involves having sex with her, in our minds, at least a dozen times in every conceivable position. All of this occurs in a span of time measured in nanoseconds. This is axiomatic.

When I do this, even subconsciously, I haven't "invested" a single thing in the woman. Unless you want to add up the caloric outlay necessary to produce the glucose necessary for my neurons to fire that particular thought process.

Choosing to "act" on these instinct, though, is a different thing, and is what differentiates us from other mammals. We can control our instinctive urges, and adopt societal norms (such as serial monogamy) which directly conflict with those instincts.

Acting on these instincts when in an otherwise exclusive relationship would indicate to me there is something inherently lacking in your relationship. Likely you're not giving your man enough blow-jobs to keep him adequately bonded to you. Men bond to women through sex. Don't give him enough sex, that bond will break down and he will instinctively seek a mate somewhere else.




> 'm glad to hear you respect your wife. Hopefully this also applies to Hannah Davis. For me, the issue is not just relevant to the wife or partner, but also the object of the "checking out".


I am not married. I do, however, have a wonderful SO, who is very keen on relationships and what makes them work, and with whom I connect at a deeply emotional level, in such a way that we fully understand each others' needs and actively work to fulfill them.

I happen to believe my SO is an incredibly beautiful woman, and each time I see her, whether it be simply standing across the room, or making a presentation at a podium, I am reminded what an incredibly lucky and blessed man I am.

However, she also knows that, despite the fact we are very closely bonded, I will encounter other women who are, in her own words, "more beautiful than I". That may be true, from a physical beauty perspective (although I reserve the right to disagree with her), but what I find beautiful about my SO is not just what I perceive as her physical beauty, but her spiritual beauty and strength, two characteristics which drew me to her from the onset.


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## vellocet

always_alone said:


> There is finding people attractive, and there is "checking out". Then there is active drooling and leering. After that comes imagining sex with them or constructing fantasies around them. Maybe some flirting and attention-seeking. Each of those steps involves more and more investment.


I agree.

But this thread is about "checking out"....not flirting with other women. If you are with a man that flirts with other women, then by all means, do the same.

I personally don't stay with women who flirt with other men. 

I don't, however, expect them to NOT check out other men. They are going to do it and I know it....whether they want to admit it or not.


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## Dad&Hubby

Kurious said:


> Backround info since I'm new here: I'm 26, college student, married 4 1/2 years, no kids, very active and fit.
> 
> Do other husbands out there check out other girls? My wife makes me feel like there is something wrong with me. Like I'm a terrible person. I don't go to the gym with the mission of checking out ass. I don't go to the beach to see girls half naked. But it is hard to not notice girls who i think are beautiful if they come into sight. I feel like it's something I can't help. My wife has always wanted me to be honest with her in our relationship and my honesty causes many problems for us. It's always devastating to her that I check out others. She never catches me but she knows I do because I'm honest. The only solution I can think of is to drop out of school, join an all mens gym, stay inside, etc. Or... Just lie to her and say I don't check out others. Do other men just lie about this? My wife has a serious serious issue with jealousy.
> 
> I'm at a loss here because we got in a fight over this again and I have no idea what to do.


This is an issue that is larger than you checking out other women. It's a non-gender issue. It's about respecting your spouse.

It's no different than men or women railing on about the celebrity they have crushes on at a social get together (I'm speaking about the fan club level discussions).

Every single person is going to "notice" other attractive people. It's what they do during "step 2". Noticing is step 1. It's that initial glance that catches your eye. If your step 2 is to then proceed to stare or glare at them or more...then you're getting into disrespectful territory. 

The other thing to recognize is every couple is different and has different tolerances. Some couples openly talk about other attractive people, other couples kind of keep it to themselves. It's only as big as you make it. It's obvious your wife is sensitive to how much you look...you should respect that. Now at the same time....she better hold to the same rules. She can't get all jealous of you checking out a woman at the beach and then be ranting at how hot Channing Tatum is in his new movie etc. Sorry but they are the same thing (in person or celebrity...you're still finding another person besides your spouse attractive). 

There is no "right" answer to this...it's an issue of boundaries that needs to be established by both you and your wife.


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## Satya

always_alone said:


> All I am saying is that if he is keeping his options open, so am I, and if he cares nothing for my feelings, well neither do I.


In that case you'd likely cancel each other out and I'd be surprised if there'd still be a relationship in existence after a time. 

My thoughts.... I "check out" plenty of men, I can't avoid it since I need my eyes to see. However, I adore only one. I'm oblivious to many men checking me out (as I'm told) and I'm not offended once I learn because they've done nothing to warrant offense. Now, if they started groping or making unwelcome lewd comments that'd give reason for offense. That's just basic bad behavior. 

Thoughts aren't deeds and if anyone wanted to censor thoughts I'd say best of luck in that endeavour! Thats been attempted in history before. 

Disrespectful behaviour on the other hand... Well that's a matter of stating boundaries (acceptable tolerance levels) and following through in thought AND deed when they're challenged. But boundaries need to have reasonable logic behind them or they won't really fly with men. Telling a guy he must fancy women simply because he looks at them... That's filling in a lot of gaps with assumptions. The same kinds of assumptions a man makes by telling a woman she must fancy the man with Popeye arms because she took a glance. 

Men and women both check out each other. The amount of energy spent worrying about what might be going through the other's head is just conjecture if you don't ask directly. So if anyone, man or woman is bothered by thoughts that might be... Just ask. Clear the air. 

If it goes beyond checking out... Get off of TAM and do something about it!


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## Wolf1974

Satya said:


> In that case you'd likely cancel each other out and I'd be surprised if there'd still be a relationship in existence after a time.
> 
> My thoughts.... I "check out" plenty of men, I can't avoid it since I need my eyes to see. However, I adore only one. I'm oblivious to many men checking me out (as I'm told) and I'm not offended once I learn because they've done nothing to warrant offense. Now, if they started groping or making unwelcome lewd comments that'd give reason for offense. That's just basic bad behavior.
> 
> Thoughts aren't deeds and if anyone wanted to censor thoughts I'd say best of luck in that endeavour! Thats been attempted in history before.
> 
> Disrespectful behaviour on the other hand... Well that's a matter of stating boundaries (acceptable tolerance levels) and following through in thought AND deed when they're challenged. But boundaries need to have reasonable logic behind them or they won't really fly with men. Telling a guy he must fancy women simply because he looks at them... That's filling in a lot of gaps with assumptions. The same kinds of assumptions a man makes by telling a woman she must fancy the man with Popeye arms because she took a glance.
> 
> Men and women both check out each other. The amount of energy spent worrying about what might be going through the other's head is just conjecture if you don't ask directly. So if anyone, man or woman is bothered by thoughts that might be... Just ask. Clear the air.
> 
> If it goes beyond checking out... Get off of TAM and do something about it!


Well said!

Cool avatar


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## always_alone

Constable Odo said:


> The human animal has a inherent desire to procreate. Its instinctive behavior in our genetic makeup. That means every single member of the opposite sex we interact with we evaluate, at least once, as a potential mate.
> 
> As a woman, you do it too, even if you don't realize it, or more likely, don't want to admit to it.
> 
> When a man looks at a woman who is attractive, and evaluates her as a potential mate, part of that evaluation process involves having sex with her, in our minds, at least a dozen times in every conceivable position. All of this occurs in a span of time measured in nanoseconds. This is axiomatic.


Right. So what I am saying is that it is axiomatic that I will evaluate men for their breeding potential, and in order to do so, I need to imagine having sex with them at least a dozen times in every conceivable sexual position. I don't spend too much time doing each individual one, but a goodly number of men do require evaluation.


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## bbydede

I am 30 year old wife that used to be that really cool girlfriend that was totally laid back about everything. I could joke about checking people out, go to strip clubs with my partner, etc. Now I am jealous and insecure like your wife. 

Be careful people, not to place blame on the jealous woman like it's her fault. I am her too. Sometimes she is that way because of the crud she's put up with. I have seen first hand a man who began as a guy who likes to check out women in front of his partner morph into a lying adulterer. Once you get a taste of one thing, you want a taste of the next biggest thing. Maybe one day after watching attractive women you decide to sit next to one at the bar. And then it gets bigger....

Here are the steps I saw, and did practically nothing to stop it until it was too late and I was having to face forgiveness or being single and losing 5 years of memories. Be careful of the lure of desire and how bad it can ruin your lives. 

1. Checking out other women in front of me
2. Print porn
3. Web porn 
4. Not answering my 1-2 total phone calls or text while out at night with friends
5. Not standing up for me when friends were innapropriately rude
6. Not coming home at night
7. Affair with a married woman who lived with her husband and 5 kids
8. Google searching several times and several articles/chat rooms in succession "How to hook up with women at hotel bars"

Don't make the same mistakes. Sex and attraction are very fleeting things.


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## Constable Odo

bbydede said:


> I have seen first hand a man who began as a guy who likes to check out women in front of his partner morph into a lying adulterer. Once you get a taste of one thing, you want a taste of the next biggest thing.


This is the singularly the most idiotic thing I have read on this forum yet. According to your logic, people are serial killers because they enjoy horror movies.


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## JCD

This is an open set of questions to all th women offended by this behavior (technically called 'seeing')

Do you ever look at attractive men you see in day to day life? Do you ever look twice?

Have you had conversations with your girlfriends about attractive men who weren't your husband?

Do you have a list of actors whose movies you see because they are 'hunky'? GofT? Maybe a little Kahl Drogo or Jon Snow junkie?

Now...after you answer these questions, please tell me the functional difference between those actions, which a lot of women on this board have admitted to doing, and what the OP did.


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## Catherine602

JCD said:


> This is an open set of questions to all th women offended by this behavior (technically called 'seeing')
> 
> Do you ever look at attractive men you see in day to day life? Do you ever look twice?
> 
> Have you had conversations with your girlfriends about attractive men who weren't your husband?
> 
> Do you have a list of actors whose movies you see because they are 'hunky'? GofT? Maybe a little Kahl Drogo or Jon Snow junkie?
> 
> Now...after you answer these questions, please tell me the functional difference between those actions, which a lot of women on this board have admitted to doing, and what the OP did.


You forgot one vital question. Does it make your husband cry or get upset every time you show an interest in gorgeous stars with fantastic guns? If it bothers you that your wife likes good looking men then tell her. 

Seeing all relationship problems through a male Vs. female lens creates problems. If that is the way you approach your relationships with women, then you can't be surprised when it gets you into trouble. 

If you respond to issues by pointing out what your partner does along gender lines, expect the same in return. There will be times when you will call on your partner to use love and understanding to respond to your issues. When you do, they can also roll out some gender- based nonresponse. Good luck with that. 

BTW, when I do anything at all that make's my husband upset I ask him about it so I understand what he needs me to do. The thought of searching for instances where he does something similar never occurs to me. I refuse to let the male-female divide effect his happiness or mine.


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## Deejo

jld said:


> All I can tell you is I have never seen it.
> 
> He is not blind, but he does not feed what he does not want to grow.


Do you notice attractive women? Or men? I think I recall you posted quite some time ago that you would tell Dug, no?

To think our SO's don't 'notice' attractive members of the opposite sex is just silly.

How they behave as a result is usually what creates waves.


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## Marduk

To paraphrase my wife: 'I know you notice beautiful women just like I notice good looking men. All I expect is that you respect me enough to give me the illusion that you don't, and I'll do the same.'

For her, that means basically don't gawk, make a comment, or turn around to look.


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## Catherine602

marduk said:


> To paraphrase my wife: 'I know you notice beautiful women just like I notice good looking men. All I expect is that you respect me enough to give me the illusion that you don't, and I'll do the same.'
> 
> For her, that means basically don't gawk, make a comment, or turn around to look.


Exactly.


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