# Do you think depression causes people to have affairs?



## Jax67 (Jan 17, 2013)

Hi All,

I am new to this forum and just wanted to ask if you think people self medicate their depression by having affairs, hoping it will be the answer.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

I think it certainly can .In the sense the OW or OM makes you feel "good " when you are around them a temporary "escape" and the "rush " of infatuation is a chemical thing.I think endorphins are flooding the brain.

But of course that just my opinion .And I don't believe the reason everyone or even most have an affair.And of course not everyone who is depressed even considers an affair let alone has one.(just to clarify so I wont be taken the wrong way)


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

No, depression does not cause people to cheat.

When someone is in a ****ty marriage, or has depression, or whatever else is wrong in their life, they make choices, just like we all do. Cheating is a choice. The fact that someone chooses to cheat is a result of selfishness, when you get right down to it. They feel entitled, they feel they 'deserve' it somehow. They can rationalize to themselves that something 'caused' it, but by doing so they are failing to take responsibility for it, and failing to admit they have a problem that needs fixing.

My husband is a sex addict. But that did not cause him to cheat. HE caused him to cheat. The fact he is a sex addict determined HOW he cheated, but not THAT he cheated. He is also in recovery, which means he is still a sex addict but is no longer cheating. He is taking responsibility for what he did and taking steps to ensure it never happens again.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> No, depression does not cause people to cheat.


I agree ..it should be worded a "reason" or reason for "temptation".


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> I agree ..it should be worded a "reason" or reason for "temptation".


What's the difference?? Either way, it sounds like an excuse.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Nope, depression doesn't cause infidelity. 

Crappy boundaries and a sense of entitlement do.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I think depression is independent of cheating. A person who is clinically depressed is unlikely to have the motivation, energy, or interest to pursue cheating. 

But if they perceive an opportunity and feel it can ease their symptoms, though, they might seize the chance.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

I'm not a shrink and I've never dealt with depression (either in myself or a family member). Logically, though, it would seem extremely unlikely as Kathy pointed out:



> Originally posted by KathyBatesel:
> A person who is clinically depressed is unlikely to have the motivation, energy, or interest to pursue cheating.


If you're involved in an affair, you have to spif yourself up! No-one is going to have an affair with an unwashed, unshaven, unkempt, joyless person! It doesn't make sense.

Fear is a much more LIKELY motivator for an affair. Fear of dying, of not achieving goals, of not being recognized, of not mattering, of not getting what WE think we deserve, of 'missing out', etc. This seems a MUCH MORE LIKELY scenario. 'I will have lived, had children, built my business, died...and in 20-50 years it will all have meant NOTHING. Why did I bother?'

As previously pointed out, a sense of entitlement is ALSO found in large measure in cheaters (especially serial cheaters).


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> I think depression is independent of cheating.* A person who is clinically depressed is unlikely to have the motivation, energy, or interest to pursue cheating. *
> 
> But if they perceive an opportunity and feel it can ease their symptoms, though, they might seize the chance.


I agree with what I have emboldened. I think it takes someone outside of the marriage to come along and "help" the depressed person, thereby affording the opportunity to cheat. Then it is a decision based on lots of things including, but not limited to boundaries, etc.

I don't believe a truly depressed person would even feel good enough to be sexually attracted to anyone because they don't believe themselves to be attractive. They would only have sex in a relationship out of pure physical need. This is depression, not feeling poorly.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> I'm not a shrink and I've never dealt with depression (either in myself or a family member). Logically, though, it would seem extremely unlikely as Kathy pointed out:
> 
> If you're involved in an affair, you have to spif yourself up! No-one is going to have an affair with an unwashed, unshaven, unkempt, joyless person! It doesn't make sense.
> 
> ...


Not meaning to be rude. Thought this was entitlement?


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

I can only speak for myself, but when I dealt with my own depression, I wasn't tempted in the least to have an affair. What I was tempted to do was hop in my car and start driving and start a new life somewhere else. At least from the perspective of my kids, I'd argue that my temptations were even more destructive than those about affairs.

Depression is a dark, dark universe. Hard to say what it might motivate people to do.


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## damiana879 (Aug 26, 2011)

I'm dealing with depression, and the truth is, I feel the same as GTdad, I don't have the slightest inclination to cheat, right now, I don't even want anything to do with the lower half of my body, much less have someone else see/touch/whatever with it. I'm sure people deal with depression in their own way, but as far as myself, I have gotten to the point where I feel that the physical aspect of my life is over...


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> What's the difference?? Either way, it sounds like an excuse.


It may sound like an "excuse" but its not.Why do we look into the minds and even the upbringings of serial killers?Are we looking for an "excuse" to excuse them or what if anything contributed to this persons behavior other than they just "chose" to do it?

Trying to understand why some people act the way they do beyond they are just "selfish" or evil isn't an "excuse".Especially because many with the same circumstances or seemingly will not react or behave the same.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

damiana879 said:


> I'm dealing with depression, and the truth is, I feel the same as GTdad, I don't have the slightest inclination to cheat, right now, I don't even want anything to do with the lower half of my body, much less have someone else see/touch/whatever with it. I'm sure people deal with depression in their own way, but as far as myself, I have gotten to the point where I feel that the physical aspect of my life is over...


Right..I don't think the OP (they can correct me if I'm wrong) meant to insinuate every depressed person wants to cheat let alone does.Or that even its a common "reason"/or contributing factor (as some say "excuse).


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

damiana879 said:


> I'm dealing with depression, and the truth is, I feel the same as GTdad, I don't have the slightest inclination to cheat, right now, I don't even want anything to do with the lower half of my body, much less have someone else see/touch/whatever with it. I'm sure people deal with depression in their own way, but as far as myself, I have gotten to the point where I feel that the physical aspect of my life is over...


I waited alot longer than I should have to get help, because I had long bought into ideas about "shrinks" and "hanging tough" and "just getting over it". I hope you're smarted than me, and have sought out some assistance. There's no shame at all in getting help.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

I don't believe that anything "causes" an affair. You can take any circumstance and say, "This can cause affairs", but the fact is that there are many people in those circumstances that don't cheat on their spouses. Cheating is a choice. _People_ cause affairs. They choose it. Anything else is an excuse. It doesn't matter what the person's circumstances or situation; no one held a gun to their head and told them that if they didn't cheat, they would be killed. 

I'm definitely not an expert of professional of any kind. This is just my opinion.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I think depression can put you in a very dark place, and when the OM/W comes along, the chemicals start churning and people can interpret what is happening as something different than it really is.

In that sense I can see depression as making someone more vulnerable, but a choice is a choice.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> Originally posted by SGW:
> This seems a MUCH MORE LIKELY scenario. 'I will have lived, had children, built my business, died...and in 20-50 years it will all have meant NOTHING. Why did I bother?'





> Originally posted by 2ntnuf:
> Not meaning to be rude. Thought this was entitlement?


Not rude! Good question! I hadn't THOUGHT of it like that, but I guess it could be 'entitlement'. I guess I'm thinking more of a why bother/what's it all about sense of insignificance: 

God/satan, good/evil, heaven/hell, pillar of the community/bum what's the difference? what does it matter? nothing we do means anything in the huge universe/expansive infinity of time/big scheme of things.

To me entitlement is more of an 'I'm so great' mentality: 

Hey, I work my azz off and SHE doesn't appreciate it
I look 'hot' for my age; hell, I look 'hot' for any age, s/he's lucky I'm still giving her/him any
Should have married [insert name here], I'll bet S/HE didn't let her/himself go to hell, and I'll bet his business is a success (her ass is still fine); That b1tch/a-hole doesn't even TRY anymore...

just my take, 2ntnuf!


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

I know affairs cause depression...especially of you are the BS 

From my WH's affair, I learned that to keep it secret, its tough work. I can't really see a depressed person using that much energy and being able to keep 2 stories straight and being able to function. Maybe I am wrong, but when you are depressed, don't you just lose all of your energy and motivation to do anything?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Acorn said:


> I think depression can put you in a very dark place, and when the OM/W comes along, the chemicals start churning and people can interpret what is happening as something different than it really is.
> 
> In that sense I can see depression as making someone more vulnerable, but a choice is a choice.


Right a "contributing factor" not the "cause" or an excuse to choose that route.Thats like saying can can depression "cause "someone" to committ suicide.And the answer is of course not suicide is a choice.Saying its the cause sounds like an "excuse' .Its simply a selfish choice.Lots of in fact most people dont committ suicide when they are depressed.Wow we really learned a lot.:scratchhead:


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

There are consequences for cheating no matter what factors lead to it are. *Maybe being despressed contributes but it doesn't really matter*.

What likely leads more people to cheat when they are young is unrealistic expectations. And then some people are just selfish and self serving.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> I know affairs cause depression...especially of you are the BS
> 
> From my WH's affair, I learned that to keep it secret, its tough work. I can't really see a depressed person using that much energy and being able to keep 2 stories straight and being able to function. Maybe I am wrong, but when you are depressed, don't you just lose all of your energy and motivation to do anything?


It depends on the severity and how its "displayed" (symptoms).There are some chronically depressed moderately or those who have "bouts" can seem fine on the outside even (high functioning) then the next day they kill themselves.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> Right a "contributing factor" not the "cause" or an excuse to choose that route.Thats like saying can can depression "cause "someone" to committ suicide.And the answer is of course not suicide is a choice.Saying its the cause sounds like an "excuse' .Its simply a selfish choice.Lots of in fact most people dont committ suicide when they are depressed.Wow we really learned a lot.:scratchhead:


Depression does not cause affairs.

Depression is, however, a real medical condition at the same time. If you ask someone why an affair happened and they tell you it was depression combined with poor boundaries, that's a pretty thorough answer and a lot more than most people on TAM get. It's up to you what you do with it from there.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> There are consequences for cheating no matter what factors lead to it are. *Maybe being despressed contributes but it doesn't really matter*.
> 
> What likely leads more people to cheat when they are young is unrealistic expectations. And then some people are just selfish and self serving.


It matters as to "understanding " and knowledge as to help learn preventative and to educate on risks.


And yes some people are just selfish and self serving.But we are discussing any link to depression and cheating.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Not rude! Good question! I hadn't THOUGHT of it like that, but I guess it could be 'entitlement'. I guess I'm thinking more of a why bother/what's it all about sense of insignificance:
> 
> God/satan, good/evil, heaven/hell, pillar of the community/bum what's the difference? what does it matter? nothing we do means anything in the huge universe/expansive infinity of time/big scheme of things.
> 
> ...


For me, SGW, this is arrogance and the entitlement only comes into play when I think I "deserve" something _and_ attempt to get that without consideration of others.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Does eating too much sugar contribute to diabetes? Yes but does it really matter ? Eating sugar is a choice so why even discuss it?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> It matters as to "understanding " and knowledge as to help learn preventative and to educate on risks.


Sure but it's one of many things and in my opinion it's a small player in the dynamics. Entitlement, fairy tale expectations, selfishness, arrogance, etc cause more infidelity. Like someone earlier posted, someone depressed doesn't have the motivation to mess around. Plus often despression is a symptom of unrealistic expectations and that's what may cause the cheating more than the depression.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> It may sound like an "excuse" but its not.Why do we look into the minds and even the upbringings of serial killers?Are we looking for an "excuse" to excuse them or what if anything contributed to this persons behavior other than they just "chose" to do it?
> 
> Trying to understand why some people act the way they do beyond they are just "selfish" or evil isn't an "excuse".Especially because many with the same circumstances or seemingly will not react or behave the same.


It is an excuse if you just leave it at that. It's a fine line. Too many cheaters DO use things as an excuse, and leave it at that. To recognize your own problems and to seek help for them is what matters.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

If what you are saying is what I think you are saying da, then it is much more likely the depressed partner is going to have an EA long before it gets to a PA. Not trying to lessen the emotional damage caused by and EA, but I think, at least for me personally an EA would have been more likely. I did not cheat, but being depressed made it easy to feel like getting into an EA with women who seemed to empathized when my XW did not. It was a choice she made in how to treat me. She grew while I did not. She cheated. I think she felt the entitlement SGW talked about. That's why I commented. She would not have done so however, if there was not a willing partner, right? So which came first? Who knows for sure. She's not going to talk about it with me.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Does eating too much sugar contribute to diabetes? Yes but does it really matter ? Eating sugar is a choice so why even discuss it?


Maybe the OP will weigh in with some additional context, but I was attempting to answer the question as presented. 

For my part, depression can put all kinds of crazy-assed thoughts in your head, adultery perhaps being one of them. Acorn is right, it still comes back to choice, although I'd also point out that a depressed person's ability to make good decisions is also impaired.

I'm not looking to make excuses for infidelity; just offering my perspective on a messed-up state of mind based on my own experience. The consequences for decisions, coming from a messed-up place or not, tend to be the same.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> Does eating too much sugar contribute to diabetes? Yes but does it really matter ? Eating sugar is a choice so why even discuss it?


That's not a logical argument. Diabetes is (type2 usually) a consequence of a lifestyle of eating sugar and inactivity. It's pretty widely agreed on I think. Cheating on the other hand is a voluntary action with various causes.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Comparing eating too much sugar to diabetes is not the same as comparing depression to cheating. Eating too much sugar is directly linked and scientifically proven to eventually cause type two diabetes in most, if not every, case. Depression, however, is not directly linked with cheating.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> That's not a logical argument. Diabetes is (type2 usually) a consequence of a lifestyle of eating sugar and inactivity. It's pretty widely agreed on I think. Cheating on the other hand is a voluntary action with various causes.


Precisely. Cheating/adultery is a choice, no matter how you slice it. A lot of things could contribute to the atmosphere around the individual, but they have a choice to give in and cheat or not.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I have read that there is a strong correlation with using anti-dep meds and cheating. It is the side effects of the meds damping down emotions which contributes to seeking that missing zing in life.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> Sure but it's one of many things and in my opinion it's a small player in the dynamics. Entitlement, fairy tale expectations, selfishness, arrogance, etc cause more infidelity. Like someone earlier posted, someone depressed doesn't have the motivation to mess around. Plus often despression is a symptom of unrealistic expectations and that's what may cause the cheating more than the depression.


But the question wasn't what "causes" most affairs.Thats a totally different discussion.And someone depressed most certainly "can" have the motivation to have an affair.Just because some "dont" doesn't mean "some do" .(have the motivation)

Also could you back this up with data..Because I'm taking my 23 year old son soon (unmarried ) to another specialist to try and address his depression issues.(not only has he never cheated he has only had one serious relationship that lasted 6 months 3 years ago maybe I can telll HIM he has "unrealisitic expecations"?) ..also I could pass your data along to my 30 year old who is on disability for depression who has been in ICU for attempted suicide..Like to see your data on "unrealisitic expectations" causing his depression ..Maybe I can ease my dads pain that his mother blew her head off at 70 years old because she had unrealistic expectations?(maybe she cheated too?)



> Plus often despression is a symptom of unrealistic expectations and that's what may cause the cheating more than the depression.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

People who are depressed can do many things that are out of character, but I wouldn't say cheating is a symptom of depression any more than is going out and robbing a bank...


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Thor said:


> I have read that there is a strong correlation with using anti-dep meds and cheating. It is the side effects of the meds damping down emotions which contributes to seeking that missing zing in life.


I got alot of zing out of riding my motorcycle, having sessions of good sex with my wife(let's face it, it wasn't all bad) and pursuing long hours of work each day at my regular job and then after work at either remodeling her house(she sold for a profit), her business or helping at the front desk with customers. It was quite satisfying and partly why I was hit so hard and felt somewhat taken unawares until I felt better and looked at reality.

Edit: I was literally "flying" on the adrenaline rush of doing more and more. The crash from such heights is what harmed me. I "felt" set up for a fall almost like it was planned that way. Later, I learned she had been moving her stuff out very slowly for a couple of years while "playing" the good wife. The "playing" hurt more than if she would have talked with me a couple of years earlier and we had "honestly" worked on it, but failed.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cosmos said:


> People who are depressed can do many things that are out of character, but I wouldn't say cheating is a symptom of depression any more than going out and robbing a bank is...


Another great point. 

People love to cop out of their personal responsibilities. I've known people who've suffered clinical depression. They never cheated. And I know people who were happy in their relationship, but decided to cheat for the trill of it. It only comes down to choice, nothing else. Depression, terrible relationships, emotional neglect, etc. can all create the feelings of wanting love, needing love, but acting out on those things is choice. The actual cheating itself is 100% choice.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> People who are depressed can do many things that are out of character, but I wouldn't say cheating is a symptom of depression any more than going out and robbing a bank is...


I agree 100% ..I would say depression can be a driving force (contributor) to those behaving out of character.

Is committing suicide (killing your own self ) a "symptom" of depression? How would we phrase that to make it related without making it an "excuse " to kill your self .Do tell .A selfish self centered choice? YEP ..Uh ..no excuse to kill your self? YEP..A significant factor in why you chose to do that ?NAH ...many depressed people don't kill themsleves..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> I've known people who've suffered clinical depression. They never cheated.


I've "known people" (including myself) that suffered clinical depression they never committed suicide or even attempted..Except for the ones that did.Your argument makes no sense.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> I believe that plus some of these medications reduce anxiety. Maybe even anxiety about consequences of cheating. Of course I'm specualating.


I agree..Some of the pharmeceuticals prescribed for depression can not just "reduce anxiety" but damage your brain and the way it operates..further than its already hindered.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> But the question wasn't what "causes" most affairs.Thats a totally different discussion.And someone depressed most certainly "can" have the motivation to have an affair.Just because some "dont" doesn't mean "some do" .(have the motivation)
> 
> Also could you back this up with data..Because I'm taking my 23 year old son soon (unmarried ) to another specialist to try and address his depression issues.(not only has he never cheated he has only had one serious relationship that lasted 6 months 3 years ago maybe I can telll HIM he has "unrealisitic expecations"?) ..also I could pass your data along to my 30 year old who is on disability for depression who has been in ICU for attempted suicide..Like to see your data on "unrealisitic expectations" causing his depression ..Maybe I can ease my dads pain that his mother blew her head off at 70 years old because she had unrealistic expectations?(maybe she cheated too?)


No I don't think depression leads to cheating very often (is that a better answer?). The reason I don't think it is because ...... oh I can't say why else the thread topic police will fuss at me.

Regarding unrealistic expectation and depression, I seems obvious to me that didn't say or insinuate anything about your kids or any kids who are depressed since we're talking about depression in a relationship. Often people get depressed when marriage is not what they expected. Often people feel resentment and cheated and other things when marriage is not what that expected.

Disclaimer: There are other scenarios, other reasons, etc. I can't back up your assumption of what I said with data.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> I've "known people" (including myself) that suffered clinical depression they never committed suicide or even attempted..Except for the ones that did.Your argument makes no sense.


I don't think that suicide is necessarily a symptom of depression. Sometimes people who aren't depressed commit suicide. Sometimes people who are depressed commit suicide. Sometimes people who aren't depressed commit adultery. Sometimes people who are depressed commit adultery. 

As far as adultery goes, I do not think that depression is a key factor. If it was, then more people who were depressed would cheat than those who weren't and I don't believe that's the case. It comes down to choice. That was my point, and yes, it does make sense.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

da,

What is it you believe that you are trying to convince everyone of?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> That's not a logical argument. Diabetes is (type2 usually) a consequence of a lifestyle of eating sugar and inactivity. It's pretty widely agreed on I think. Cheating on the other hand is a voluntary action with various causes.


Yeah like cheating causes depression not the other way around?Got it..

I think you are the one that suggesting its the cheating that causes depression?(or too high expectations)Like how sugar causes diabetes?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Thor said:


> I have read that there is a strong correlation with using anti-dep meds and cheating. It is the side effects of the meds damping down emotions which contributes to seeking that missing zing in life.


I find this interesting, because one of the side effects of SSRIs is a loss of libido and/or ED.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> I agree 100% ..I would say depression can be a driving force (contributor) to those behaving out of character.
> 
> Is committing suicide (killing your own self ) a "symptom" of depression? How would we phrase that to make it related without making it an "excuse " to kill your self .Do tell .A selfish self centered choice? YEP ..Uh ..no excuse to kill your self? YEP..A significant factor in why you chose to do that ?NAH ...many depressed people don't kill themsleves..


The difference I see is that depression is what creates the motive for suicide which is "I'm tired of anything including living". It's the same argument for why it may not cause cheating which is "I'm tired of anything including relationship, sex, etc".


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Yeah like cheating causes depression not the other way around?Got it..
> 
> I think you are the one that suggesting its the cheating that causes depression?(or too high expectations)Like how sugar causes diabetes?


That is so not what he was saying. At least, not what I got from it. Again, comparing eating sugar and getting diabetes to being depressed and cheating doesn't make sense, because the two aren't related. Being depressed is not linked to cheating like eating to much sugar is to diabetes. It is a scientifically proven fact that if you eat too much sugar, you will more than likely eventually get type two diabetes. It is not proven that if you're depressed enough you will cheat. _That_ what the point I saw. Thundarr can confirm though.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> The difference I see is that depression is what creates the motive for suicide which is "I'm tired of anything including living". It's the same argument for why it may not cause cheating which is "I'm tired of anything including relationship, sex, etc".


:iagree:

Depression is more likely to cause apathy rather than desire... Let alone the necessary energy to pursue an affair.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> Yeah like cheating causes depression not the other way around?Got it..
> 
> I think you are the one that suggesting its the cheating that causes depression?(or too high expectations)Like how sugar causes diabetes?


These thought are coming from your head not mine. I haven't said cheating causes anything accept consequences. I'm fine with not arguing a fictious debate if you are.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

When I was at the point of wanting to end it all, I could not think. I did not try it. I just could not see any point in anything, even breathing. 

Maybe we are talking about if feeling really badly which may be mild depression causes a desire to cheat. If that is the case, I go back to my earlier statement which would be that I would have had an EA to boost my mood, long before I would have had a PA.

I didn't need the sex. I needed to feel better about myself.

Edit: LOL Which leads to being a "wanker" as Dolly calls it. LOL I did not feel good enough for someone else.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Cosmos said:


> I find this interesting, because one of the side effects of SSRIs is a loss of libido and/or ED.


It seems contradictory. I have seen it reported frequently on other forums, so it is an anecdotal correlation. I also read an article somewhere on it.

The theory is that the person's emotions are flattened by the meds and they want to feel some excitement. When they get a little thrill from someone else it can encourage them to go deeper into an affair in search of recapturing the feelings they remember having but don't any more with their spouse.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> That is so not what he was saying. At least, not what I got from it. Again, comparing eating sugar and getting diabetes to being depressed and cheating doesn't make sense, because the two aren't related. Being depressed is not linked to cheating like eating to much sugar is to diabetes. It is a scientifically proven fact that if you eat too much sugar, you will more than likely eventually get type two diabetes. It is not proven that if you're depressed enough you will cheat. _That_ what the point I saw. Thundarr can confirm though.


Yes that is my thoughts on it.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cosmos said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Depression is more likely to cause apathy rather than desire... Let alone the necessary energy to pursue an affair.


One of the women I knew who suffered from depression didn't even have the motivation to get out of bed in the morning. We went to the same church, and it was more likely than not that I would be called at the last minute to take over her responsibilities. So, from my limited experience, this makes sense.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> When I was at the point of wanting to end it all, I could not think. I did not try it. I just could not see any point in anything, even breathing.
> 
> *Maybe we are talking about if feeling really badly which may be mild depression* causes a desire to cheat. If that is the case, I go back to my earlier statement which would be that I would have had an EA to boost my mood, long before I would have had a PA.
> 
> I didn't need the sex. I needed to feel better about myself.


This is a very good distinction 2nt. Severe clinical depression is nothing like being very unhappy and discontent.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> I agree 100% ..I would say depression can be a driving force (contributor) to those behaving out of character.
> 
> Is committing suicide (killing your own self ) a "symptom" of depression? How would we phrase that to make it related without making it an "excuse " to kill your self .Do tell .A selfish self centered choice? YEP ..Uh ..no excuse to kill your self? YEP..A significant factor in why you chose to do that ?NAH ...many depressed people don't kill themsleves..


I believe many who commit suicide do so because they have lost all hope of life ever improving. It is seen as the only method of putting an end to the suffering they are experiencing. I would say anyone who is desperate enough to feel this way is probably severely depressed.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> No I don't think depression leads to cheating very often (is that a better answer?). The reason I don't think it is because ...... oh I can't say why else the thread topic police will fuss at me.
> 
> Regarding unrealistic expectation and depression, I seems obvious to me that didn't say or insinuate anything about your kids or any kids who are depressed since we're talking about depression in a relationship. Often people get depressed when marriage is not what they expected. Often people feel resentment and cheated and other things when marriage is not what that expected.
> 
> Disclaimer: There are other scenarios, other reasons, etc. I can't back up your assumption of what I said with data.


Fact : depression has genetic roots.Like cancer.Certain enviroments can "trigger " it on ...of course anyone without the genetic factors if exposed enough can get cancer (or depression think being held hostage by terroist you will most likely become "depressed") or someone who works in an asbestos plant and smokes 3 packs a day..will be at the same risk as someone who has the genetic factor but who doesn't smoke or work with asbestos but who just breaths the normal polluted air.

And it did seem obvious to me.Because you were labeling "depression" as something brought on your self through "too high of expectations" ..

So If I and my children "lower our expectation" our depression will be cured ?That's all I want to know.(it will save us a lot of pain and money) ..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> I believe many who commit suicide do so because they have lost all hope of life ever improving. It is seen as the only method of putting an end to the suffering they are experiencing. I would say anyone who is desperate enough to feel this way is probably severely depressed.


Yes I know.But its not a "choice"..Well lets say it is but it seems the only bearable choice.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

*sigh* If a girl is raised believing in fairy tales, happily ever after, love at first sight, etc., she may grow up believing that love is enough to make a marriage work. If she's never told otherwise, she may get married believing that her marriage will, for the most part, be just fine. But marriage involves much, much more than that to be healthy. Realizing that her expectations were unrealistic, or not even realizing it and just seeing that her expectations are not being met, could cause her to become mildly depressed. Like she was mislead for years.

No one here is taking about you, dallas, or your children.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> Fact : depression has genetic roots.Like cancer.Certain enviroments can "trigger " it on ...of course anyone without the genetic factors if exposed enough can get cancer (or depression think being held hostage by terroist you will most likely become "depressed") or someone who works in an asbestos plant and smokes 3 packs a day..will be at the same risk as someone who has the genetic factor but who doesn't smoke or work with asbestos but who just breaths the normal polluted air.
> 
> And it did seem obvious to me.Because you were labeling "depression" as something brought on your self through "too high of expectations" ..
> 
> So If I and my children "lower our expectation" our depression will be cured ?That's all I want to know.(it will save us a lot of pain and money) ..


NOOO. Sorry for hollering. You do not, with a history of suicide in the family, stop and work on it yourself!!!!

There are doctors who will work with you and adjust diets and help you get into some meditation type things and natural supplements. 

You must let the doctors work with you!!! It's too dangerous!!!


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> Yes I know.But its not a "choice"..Well lets say it is but it seems the only bearable choice.


It is always a choice, but often the only one that makes sense to a person who is feeling this way.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> da,
> 
> What is it you believe that you are trying to convince everyone of?


That is "possible " (as in my first post) depression can in fact be a contributing factor in choosing to cheat(for some) ..If not otherwise depressed more sensible thinking would have prevailed.THATS all.And that's not an "excuse" either..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> NOOO. Sorry for hollering. You do not, with a history of suicide in the family, stop and work on it yourself!!!!


Thanks.I have plenty of professionals.We are all alive and kicking.

I just hate listening to ingnorance who have no inkling..who "know people"..


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

There a lot of contributing factors in any circumstance in life. Those factors don't eliminate personal responsibility and choice. I can be incredibly poor, without a job, and choose NOT to steal. So, it DOES come down to personal choice and nothing else. Anything else IS an excuse.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Yes, it can, but is unlikely in my honest, educated and personally experienced opinion.

Like I said, depression makes a wanker out of a man with an otherwise decent sex life, but I found it difficult to be sexually attracted to anyone. Although and EA with a woman who showed interest, now your right up my alley. That's what I need, to feel good, wanted, attractive. If I don't pull out of that, it could easily end in a PA, but it also has to do with personal boundaries. How far will I go in my life when I am not depressed?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> There a lot of contributing factors in any circumstance in life. Those factors don't eliminate personal responsibility and choice. I can be incredibly poor, without a job, and choose NOT to steal. So, it DOES come down to personal choice and nothing else. Anything else IS an excuse.


Well if you were starving and stealing bread that would be one thing.But if you are talking about earings then you are just a plain thief.

But if you are that poor as in cant eat food? Prove it to me and I'll send you a prepayed wal mart card...


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Listen, if I am at the point where I can't decide for myself what I want, i.e.: food, cleanliness, shelter, job, etc., I surely need to be on something and how could anyone in that state even think about sex? I just can't get that and I do mean can't not don't.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> Well if you were starving and stealing bread that would be one thing.But if you are talking about earings then you are just a plain thief.
> 
> But if you are that poor as in cant eat food? Prove it to me and I'll send you a prepayed wal mart card...


The food part you are correct, in my opinion. I don't think it is stealing. 

Anyway, there is help for that. You have to go get it like I did when my XW left me with a cast on my ankle and no ability to work.

Food banks and stamps are a lifesaver at times like these and you learn quick which banks have the best selection and what time to get there and stand in line. 

Yeah. It's effing humbling. Helps with your depression too.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> It is always a choice, but often the only one that makes sense to a person who is feeling this way.


Think of 9-11 how many people went to work that day thinking it made "sense" to jump 90 to 100 stories to their death? Probably none..til they were "faced" with that or something else that seemed worse..Hundreds jumped.Knowing it was their most rational choice.That is what many depressed people feel.Now how can that happen (in the mind) but not be a contributor to an affair?:scratchhead:


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> The food part you are correct, in my opinion. I don't think it is stealing.
> 
> Anyway, there is help for that. You have to go get it like I did when my XW left me with a cast on my ankle and no ability to work.
> 
> ...


I hold no judgment over anyone who steals food out of hunger who has no or sees not options..Of course get "educated" that's one of my points..there is a reason that some people "steal" and its not because they are evil..


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> And it did seem obvious to me.Because you were labeling "depression" as something brought on your self through "too high of expectations" ..
> 
> So If I and my children "lower our expectation" our depression will be cured ?That's all I want to know.(it will save us a lot of pain and money) ..


I didn't use absolutes. Some people are unhappy and slide into depression because life is harder and different than they expected. Many are depressed for other reasons. Maybe it's a hypersensitive subject to you with good reason since you and family members have been affected but it's not helpful to enter fight mode over misreading comments.

For the record; I don't wish to put absolute labels on the causes of depression. I don't think others on the thread read my comments as you have.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> I hold no judgment over anyone who steals food out of hunger who has no or sees not options..Of course get "educated" that's one of my points..there is a reason that some people "steal" and its not because they are evil..


Agreed and my point about food stamps and banks.

Edit: In case anyone wonders, I mean "food" banks.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I knew what you were getting at, Thundarr.


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## damiana879 (Aug 26, 2011)

I appreciate your words, GTdad. The honest truth is that I don't have the money for a professional right now. I'm the only working person in the house and with 2 kids and a husband that doesn't work that gets so angry so often, I can't afford to focus on myself right now. Hopefully sometime in the future I can perhaps get some badly needed help, but for right now, unfortunately I have to focus as much as I can on the family...Thank you for your kindness.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> Think of 9-11 how many people went to work that day thinking it made "sense" to jump 90 to 100 stories to their death? Probably none..til they were "faced" with that or something else that seemed worse..Hundreds jumped.Knowing it was their most rational choice.That is what many depressed people feel.Now how can that happen (in the mind) but not be a contributor to an affair?:scratchhead:


Those people who jumped no doubt did so probably considering it a more 'pleasant' way to die...

I can't imagine, however, how a depressed person is going to think that an affair is going to alleviate their low mood. Whilst it might be borne of a desire to somehow lift their mood, temporarily, I would wonder how such a depressed person could muster the necessary energy to pursue an affair.

When I was seriously depressed it took all the energy I had to drag myself out of bed everyday, and even more energy to hit the shower.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> That is "possible " (as in my first post) depression can in fact be a contributing factor in choosing to cheat(for some) ..If not otherwise depressed more sensible thinking would have prevailed.THATS all.And that's not an "excuse" either..


I think most of us agree *that it's possible and that it does happen that way sometimes*. Sometimes being the key word. The aftermath is still there though.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> I think most of us agree *that it's possible and that it does happen that way sometimes*. Sometimes being the key word. The aftermath is still there though.


No doubt never said it was "solution " or made anything better.Just that I investigate "reason" beyond "selfish evil choice"..

Affairs are destructive .Period..


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

damiana879 said:


> I appreciate your words, GTdad. The honest truth is that I don't have the money for a professional right now. I'm the only working person in the house and with 2 kids and a husband that doesn't work that gets so angry so often, I can't afford to focus on myself right now. Hopefully sometime in the future I can perhaps get some badly needed help, but for right now, unfortunately I have to focus as much as I can on the family...Thank you for your kindness.


Wow. I am very sorry to read this. You definitely need help. You have to start somewhere. There are many women on here, I am sure, who can help you know what to do about making yourself safe from an abusive husband, first off. I hope they will chime in.

Secondly, you definitely are in need of assistance. You have to get that for yourself and your children. You can get medical assistance much more easily if you.....well, ladies? Where are you? You folks with experience. Please help her.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> No doubt never said it was "solution " or made anything better.Just that I investigate "reason" beyond "selfish evil choice"..
> 
> *Affairs are destructive .Period.*.


That's the point. You got it. The reasons vary with the individual. They are similar, but at the same time each has their own reason for their actions. They are not excuses. They are, in the end choices.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Wow. I am very sorry to read this. You definitely need help. You have to start somewhere. There are many women on here, I am sure, who can help you know what to do about making yourself safe from an abusive husband, first off. I hope they will chime in.
> 
> Secondly, you definitely are in need of assistance. You have to get that for yourself and your children. You can get medical assistance much more easily if you.....well, ladies? Where are you? You folks with experience. Please help her.


National Domestic Violence Hotline


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> That's the point. You got it. The reasons vary with the individual. They are similar, but at the same time each has their own reason for their actions. They are not excuses. They are, in the end choices.


Everything is a choice.even to step out of bed or not ..what to eat what not to eat..to answer your phone or not ..what to wear..to shave or not shave ..to brush our teeth or not brush our teeth..to have children or not ..and ON and ON and ON ..please stop stating the obvious..


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> Everything is a choice.even to step out of bed or not ..what to eat what not to eat..to answer your phone or not ..what to wear..to shave or not shave ..to brush our teeth or not brush our teeth..to have children or not ..and ON and ON and ON ..please stop stating the obvious..


Sorry, I got the wrong impression. 

Obviously, I'm not understanding what is going on here so I'm bowing out. Thanks for your time. Hope I have made some good points for consideration. Take care.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

damiana879 said:


> I appreciate your words, GTdad. The honest truth is that I don't have the money for a professional right now. I'm the only working person in the house and with 2 kids and a husband that doesn't work that gets so angry so often, I can't afford to focus on myself right now. Hopefully sometime in the future I can perhaps get some badly needed help, but for right now, unfortunately I have to focus as much as I can on the family...Thank you for your kindness.


Damiana, if you're in an abusive relationship, contact your local women's centre. They have access to a lot of resources (including pro bono lawyers and counsellors) and will give you all the support that you need.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Well if you were starving and stealing bread that would be one thing.But if you are talking about earings then you are just a plain thief.
> 
> But if you are that poor as in cant eat food? Prove it to me and I'll send you a prepayed wal mart card...


You completely missed the point. I'm not poor, it was just an example. Being poor and not being able to buy food or pay my bills doesn't make me steal. Being depressed and being unhappy doesn't many anyone cheat. It is STILL 100% a choice, and nothing more.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> You completely missed the point. I'm not poor, it was just an example. Being poor and not being able to buy food or pay my bills doesn't make me steal. Being depressed and being unhappy doesn't many anyone cheat. It is STILL 100% a choice, and nothing more.


O.K.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Sorry, I got the wrong impression.
> 
> Obviously, I'm not understanding what is going on here so I'm bowing out. Thanks for your time. Hope I have made some good points for consideration. Take care.


You did..and thank you ..

I love monkeys by the way.(and or apes) I have cats so.....LOL!!!


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## NaCl (Nov 12, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> No, depression does not cause people to cheat.
> 
> When someone is in a ****ty marriage, or has depression, or whatever else is wrong in their life, they make choices, just like we all do. Cheating is a choice. The fact that someone chooses to cheat is a result of selfishness, when you get right down to it. They feel entitled, they feel they 'deserve' it somehow. They can rationalize to themselves that something 'caused' it, but by doing so they are failing to take responsibility for it, and failing to admit they have a problem that needs fixing.
> 
> My husband is a sex addict. But that did not cause him to cheat. HE caused him to cheat. The fact he is a sex addict determined HOW he cheated, but not THAT he cheated. He is also in recovery, which means he is still a sex addict but is no longer cheating. He is taking responsibility for what he did and taking steps to ensure it never happens again.


I know this is an old thread, but I just saw it and was curious and compelled enough to ask some questions.

First off, I am in full agreement. Cheating is a choice. My first wife cheated on me and rationalizes it as occurring from being 'depressed'. So depressed, she was out exercising, getting into shape (being an idiot I thought it was for me.) and going out and doing the nasty whilst I was at work and the kids at school. I always thought it odd how being depressed could cause one to go out and put all that work into something. 

In any event, in regards to your husband's transgression(s), I'm curious as to how frequently you allowed 'relations' to occur? I'm trying to understand if you had 'cut him off' w/no provision for such activities either due to your own disinterest or whatever. Or if it was to the point of going beyond reasonably accommodating him. e.g. 'chafing'.

On the one hand, while I would not ever condone cheating, I could not hold the urge and/or even up to potentially terminating the marriage were you to be suddenly 'done' with sex, against him. That's of epic unfairness. If, on the other hand, you're 'dying' due to the pain of overuse, then that's certainly above and beyond.

I am not a sex addict, but I have a very strong libido. My current wife (many years separation from the first), had a strong libido all throughout the time prior to our getting married. About a year after we got married, she started menopause. And things suddenly stopped.

I was understanding and patient. But she seemed to have no interest in even trying to get medical aid to kickstart her interest at all. This was untenable for me. Bait and switch on the grandest scale. It took several conversations up to and including my honest assertion that I did not get married to be celibate nor did I ever feel I would be comfortable giving up sex. That I loved her, but if being married to her meant being celibate, we needed to end it so I could attempt to find someone else with a healthy/compatible libido. There are other ways to be intimate that don't require any kind of penetration. She was not interested in doing anything. So it wasn't like I was trying to be unreasonable.

She finally decided to do something about it and things are _finally_...FINALLY (3 years later)...starting to become minimally acceptable. The current goal is 1/wk. We're at 1 every other week or so right now.


Thanks!


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

well depression can lead to addictions, because the person does want to escape their real life, their real emotions or source of pain that is causing them to be mentally sick. 

so I think it is valid to say that depression can lead to cheating, in that sense. I would list depression then as one more 'valid' reason for cheating that the BS should listen to, and then dismiss out-of-hand, with no second thoughts. explain to the WS that you will continue to have all kinds of compassion for them and their emotional issues as they become your EX spouse.


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