# I'll finally reveal how I found truth



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

This may have been damaging for me, but I would like to relay how I found out about my wife's sex addiction and waywardness...

The only way this worked is because I knew how addicted she was (is?)...I took a chance, and found truths, but I think it left me damaged...but it also made me realize how far removed from me she was in so little time.

A couple months after moving out, my ex began to reveal her escapades to me...at this time, I was pretty sure she f***ed my longtime friend the night I left...I wasn't 100% sure...I needed to know...she denied that she was still texting him, and after the night I moved out I assumed she did, and I asked her about it. Of course she lied about it, and gave me excuses to where she was that evening...

a few weeks later, I told her I just met a guy who was interested in her and wanted to text her. I told her I showed him her pic...her addiction to sex was so strong at that point, she told me to go ahead and give him her number...this alone was a little shocking...I'm her fresh ex husband after 9 years and she's saying ok to this...???...that's when I knew she didn't care one iota about me.

So I texted her the number...but it was a number that I downloaded from an ap...she took the bait and right away began sexting him (me)...asking for pics, talking dirty, when can we meet, etc. 
I played it up...making sure I used lingo I wouldn't use as me. I told her my phone was being repaired and was texting her from a laptop...since I assumed she'd want to talk eventually. She bought it as she is not at all technology knowledgeable...I even told her I couldn't send pics because it was a work laptop. She didn't care. The sexting continued. As we chatted and I warmed up to her, I found out the details of the night she slept with my friend...there...truth. I also pretended to masturbate to her story...and she loved it. I found out about all her sexcapades with other couples, other men, and her sex stuff at her place of work. It revealed even more what kind of a woman she was...as now I assumed this may have been going on while still married to me. Even though she was revealing bits and pieces to me, to me in person...why?,...to be hurtful I guess, ...well now I was finding out more...what a tramp she became...yet she did state once to this fake guy that she "never crossed the line" while married

As this fake person, I told her I wasn't really friends with her ex...I just used him to meet her...she trusted this, as she was so screwed up...and that's when she told this fake guy about her true feelings about "me"...how I was a mistake, how she hated me in the end, how she felt she was a "mommy" to me, and on and on...all the while visiting me as me to try to get money and favors out of me. Well, now I knew the real her...the other side of this woman I never thought existed. She didn't reveal this stuff to me in person, as she faked empathy and sympathy when she saw me. She texted "Good morning, sunshine" every morning to this guy...

She also revealed how she felt about my long time friend she just slept with...how there was always sexual energy when he was around, and how she was going to meet up with him in Toronto in November in a threesome, go to a swingers bar, and how she'd do "anything for him.

I must say, I was shaking every time I texted her as this "guy". It went on for weeks. She never found out. Sometimes I would send errant texts at the same time as this character was texting...after a while, as this guy, I disappeared when she began asking when we could meet in person...

Upon meeting her at my place one day to iron out the separation agreement and finances, I casually asked if she ever did text this guy...aloofly she said, "Ya...we texted a bit"...and changed the subject. I dropped it too.

I told my counsellors this. One said that it was mentally damaging, and I shouldn't have found out so much and it will leave scars. One told me that it was a clever way to find out the truth about her, and now it's easier to leave this trash behind and move on..

I have been holding this back, but I needed to relay this here...hope you all understand...

I know this sounds unreal, but because I had a feeling about how far gone she was into this world of sex, I took a chance...I was right.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

What comes to mind is, "All is fair in love and war". What you did to her was nothing compared to what she did to you. I hope you can let that guilt go. I applaud you for having the courage to do it and clear up the "fog" of any misplaced love for her. Any residual can be worked through with you counselors. 

You wrote,


> I told my counsellors this. One said that it was mentally damaging, and I shouldn't have found out so much and it will leave scars. One told me that it was a clever way to find out the truth about her, and now it's easier to leave this trash behind and move on..


I'm no health care provider or counselor, but what is more mentally damaging are all the gaslighting and confusing actions which she perpetrated to lead you to believe she loved you. How do you trust yourself after being shown that you trusted all of that? That's not caused by knowledge of the truth. It's caused by what she did. Had you not found out, you would have been asking yourself the rest of your life, if you could trust everyone including yourself. This way you know the score. You can start to learn how to recognize these lies and get away from that person. 

At least you had some control of this. It's a hell of a lot better than getting an anonymous phone call, video or recording of the sounds of her having some kind of sexual relations by surprise. That is the very worst and will most assuredly harm the spouse who believes, as you did, she was telling the truth about being faithful and making you believe she loved you. You at least had the option to drop out of the conversation when you pleased. You weren't forced to hear or see it, not knowing what the hell it was until you did listen closely. 

Hang in there. Keep working on you and good work.


----------



## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

Sorta sounds like you have reached closure.


----------



## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

pretty clever. I'm sure if you ever did reveal your ruse to her, she'd just claim it was all just fantasy, and she was lying to this 'new guy' just to play along, etc.

information is power, and since you know the truth, she won't be able to further manipulate you. Also you know to keep an eye on your 'long time friends' around your next SO


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

deg20 said:


> .but it also made me realize how far removed from me she was in so little time.


It wasn't in so little time my man. She thought little of you for a long time. This goes to my thesis, and another clear example, that woman who cheat have lost interest in their SO. 
Why should you be damaged because she, another person with her own personality, drives, et cetra, decided to screw everybody in town. At worse you exercised bad judgement by picking her. Who hasn't exercised bad judgement occasionally. You saddled up with the wrong horse. It happens. Change horses and after a few miles, you'll forget the bad one.
Ya I know you loved her, she's beautiful, and all that jazz. None of that counts and has nothing to do with her behavior. It doesn't matter how much you love her. Love is not like a chemical to control weeds where the effectiveness is based on its formulation. Love controls you Dawg, not the other person.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

*It wasn't in so little time my man. She thought little of you for a long time.*

This is what hurts...quite a bit, but I'm afraid it's true...I kind of felt this about 4 months before she left me...but after reading comments like this, it registers...


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Deg20, I dont see anything wrong per se with what you did, you needed to know the real person who was once your wife. I am sorry you had to find out all of this though, I just hope you have finally got what you need to reach closure and move on.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

I wanted to post this for the longest time but was afraid I'd be judged or ridiculed... 
I am not sorry I did it now, even though I drank heavily and shook uncontrollably during this period...and it was weird...there were times when this fake person I made up took over, and there were moments where I felt like I was truly him...almost surreal... 

The talk and smut and events she relayed to my made-up guy made 50 Shades of Grey look like Peter Pan...she loved the attention...telling these stories..., which I may have thought she made up but she actually told me a few of them when she visited me, just in not as much detail. I never knew she could talk like this the whole time I was married to her. We had great sex always, but she never talked dirty in bed or did some of the things she told this fake guy. I couldn't believe that she would engage in sex with women...she never ever showed these tendencies while married, yet she spoke in detail about what she did to other women, and what they did to her while the man watched...


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Sorry you got too much information. That has to be tough to deal with. Why did you continue the charade? Why did you get so much detail? Did you ask? Did she offer it? What happened there? 

Do you think you could have stopped listening or were you addicted to the dopamine high in replacement of the love you so desperately needed from her? Do you think you are obsessed with her? 

Is it tougher now to let go? Have you thought about joining or looked into joining this sub-culture? What have you done about that? 

Do you now mistrust all women and avoid any dating or relationships? Do you think you are getting the help you need to recover? What type of therapy are you getting? Dialectical, cognitive, or what? Has it helped?


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

*Sorry you got too much information. That has to be tough to deal with. Why did you continue the charade? Why did you get so much detail? Did you ask? Did she offer it? What happened there? 

Do you think you could have stopped listening or were you addicted to the dopamine high in replacement of the love you so desperately needed from her? Do you think you are obsessed with her? 

Is it tougher now to let go? Have you thought about joining or looked into joining this sub-culture? What have you done about that? 

Do you now mistrust all women and avoid any dating or relationships? Do you think you are getting the help you need to recover? What type of therapy are you getting? Dialectical, cognitive, or what? Has it helped? *

I continued this for 4 weeks...until I truly had enough. I'll admit I was a bit fascinated with this woman I was married to and did not know...this was a side of her I didn't know existed. She revealed her stories and her feelings of me without much coaxing...the odd times I led into the conversation telling her it will "turn me on". This is all she needed to start talking.

The dopamine high? I think so. Since she was barely talking to me as me, this was the replacement you mention. A few times, while this fake guy texted her, I texted her as me...she often dismissed "me" to say she was going to bed, but continued to talk to my fake guy...this hurt.

I WAS obsessed with her...it is quickly waning.

As me, I could never get into this sub culture...although I told her one day that I would like to be in one of her threesomes...I wasn't serious...she responded with fact I wasn't good enough and didn't make the cut..."as if I'd do that with my husband" she said.

I'm leery about trust and relationships...yes...I've been to a few counsellors...they have helped...but I think that time and reading all of your posts has helped a lot....mostly dialectical therapy btw.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

deg20 said:


> This may have been damaging for me, but I would like to relay how I found out about my wife's sex addiction and waywardness...
> 
> The only way this worked is because I knew how addicted she was (is?)...I took a chance, and found truths, but I think it left me damaged...but it also made me realize how far removed from me she was in so little time.
> 
> ...


Dude... are you a masochist? Shooting rusty nails into your d*ck w/ a nail gun would probably be less painful.

Geez.


----------



## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I am on the fence as to whether knowing more is a good thing. I know enough about my STBX's cheating to know I don't trust him and that he is immune to fidelity. I sure as heck don't want to know all the gory details.

Your ex treated you horribly. It does seem that she is genuinely sick, though. Sex addiction is an illness. I'm not trying to garner sympathy for her, I'm just saying you can know with some certainty that however much she wants to claim she was your mommy at the end, she couldn't stop herself from texting fictional man you know (you in disguise). 

Now you know, try and cut any ties to her and move on. You know what you needed to know to make peace with your decision to split. Try and resist the urge to torture yourself by hunting for more and more detail. She is sick. She is not a good partner for you. It sounds like you know that now. I hope someday you find someone worthy of your trust and are able to take the leap of faith necessary to exercise that trust. Hang in there. It gets a little easier with time.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

deg20 said:


> I continued this for 4 weeks...until I truly had enough. I'll admit I was a bit fascinated with this woman I was married to and did not know...this was a side of her I didn't know existed. She revealed her stories and her feelings of me without much coaxing...the odd times I led into the conversation telling her it will "turn me on". This is all she needed to start talking.
> 
> The dopamine high? I think so. Since she was barely talking to me as me, this was the replacement you mention. A few times, while this fake guy texted her, I texted her as me...she often dismissed "me" to say she was going to bed, but continued to talk to my fake guy...this hurt.
> 
> ...


Of course, talk to your therapist about this, but for what it's worth, maybe 2 cents(?), I think that response had more to do with her than you. 

Okay...She needed to look like a "normal" wife when living and working and so forth. Going to the grocery store or the mall would have been hell if she wasn't thought of by others as a respectable woman. Her job may have suffered, assuming she had one. I bet she did, since she is intelligent and knows how to talk and manipulate. 

I think she also needed to be the "dirty girl", except to an unhealthy and dangerous extreme. 

If she let you in on the charade, she could not be married to you. It is that important to her feeling like that naughty person. Plus, you could expose her and she would not have that lifestyle in the manner she did. She would likely have to downgrade and have less choices in partners. Quality would have suffered. She would have been disrespected, even though many might not respect what she was doing, within that world she did have some I bet. 

I've thought a lot about this. I do not believe I could ever do that, but we don't know ourselves when under some sort of crazy pressure. I think, once in it and finding some kind of...comraderie, self importance through the attention, control over our lives and destinies, not sure what it would be exactly, it might be easily adopted to alleviate some past pain/shame/guilt. 

I wish you much success and would like to note that I would like to know some things now that I don't about what happened in my own failing second marriage. Don't know how much detail. I don't think I am able to be as convincing as you. Never was a good liar. Always got caught when I tried, so I don't try. I either tell the truth or don't talk/change subject/say I don't want to go there. 

So, I hope you fully recover very soon and learn how to pick a better mate, over time and with guidance. I hope you learn how to love and trust again, in a healthy amount and manner. I hope you grow to understand anyone can be tricked and it's not their fault, especially when you are trying to be vulnerable and close. It's the perfect scenario for a person like that and I bet if you look back, you will realize he was not very open, but you really thought she was by how she talked with you.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

joannacroc said:


> I'm so sorry you're going through this. I am on the fence as to whether knowing more is a good thing. I know enough about my STBX's cheating to know I don't trust him and that he is immune to fidelity. I sure as heck don't want to know all the gory details.
> 
> Your ex treated you horribly. It does seem that she is genuinely sick, though. Sex addiction is an illness. I'm not trying to garner sympathy for her, I'm just saying you can know with some certainty that however much she wants to claim she was your mommy at the end, she couldn't stop herself from texting fictional man you know (you in disguise).
> 
> Now you know, try and cut any ties to her and move on. You know what you needed to know to make peace with your decision to split. Try and resist the urge to torture yourself by hunting for more and more detail. She is sick. She is not a good partner for you. It sounds like you know that now. I hope someday you find someone worthy of your trust and are able to take the leap of faith necessary to exercise that trust. Hang in there. It gets a little easier with time.


Thanks joannacroc. Yes...the overall consensus is that she is sick...but is she still sick? She is in a relationship now. Did she do this to just me?...because she was tired of me?...or is she doing it behind this new guy's back?

I know...it doesn't matter...I'd like to think this would have happened to any guy she was with at the time, and not just a repercussion of her leaving me...acting out like this to hide the guilt of leaving me...

It's over...she is a memory now.


----------



## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

deg20 said:


> Thanks joannacroc. Yes...the overall consensus is that she is sick...but is she still sick? She is in a relationship now. Did she do this to just me?...because she was tired of me?...or is she doing it behind this new guy's back?
> 
> I know...it doesn't matter...I'd like to think this would have happened to any guy she was with at the time, and not just a repercussion of her leaving me...acting out like this to hide the guilt of leaving me...
> 
> It's over...she is a memory now.


She was in a relationship with you. And to your knowledge she was faithful...at the time. Now you know differently. Who knows if she is cheating on this new dude. 

Look at it this way - with the way she treated you, you have admitted you don't think she gave a s:;$ about you. Her actions were not those of a woman who cares deeply about her spouse. Even IF she's not currently cheating on this new guy, so what? She probably will eventually. If she came crawling back right now, knowing what you know about her, would you take her back? Probably not, right? So who cares what she is doing in her new relationship? 

Don't do this to yourself. It is a temptation but one that will result in more pain. Every time you are tempted to go onto facebook and see what she is up to, go for a run, or meet a friend for a drink, or go see a movie. Whatever it is that you do for fun, go do that until the temptation passes. Eventually, you will train your brain to steer your thoughts away from her.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

*Her job may have suffered, assuming she had one. I bet she did, since she is intelligent and knows how to talk and manipulate. 

*

It didn't suffer...but it should have. She works with special kids at a high school. A few of her events happened during working hours...going to a single teachers office, locking the door, and performing sexual acts...I knew this guy...it was one of her "friends"...he actually did some work on our house while we were separated and I helped him.

She also (sometimes the same day ), went to the boiler room and performed the same acts of the janitor, who was married, and actually thought about leaving his wife for her...she told me this as me and the fake guy...she led him on really well...


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> I know...it doesn't matter...I'd like to think this would have happened to any guy she was with at the time, and not just a repercussion of her leaving me...acting out like this to hide the guilt of leaving me...


It does matter or you wouldn't have brought it up. Read the post of mine above your original post with this quote. 

Talk with your counselor/therpist/Psy.D. about this. Don't let it go. 

I do think she will do it with anyone she can get to fall for her. That isn't every man out there. I wish I could say it was, but that wouldn't be true and you really do know that. There would be quite a pile of men that would, however. Because, it's likely she honed her skills of showing love to her husband. Like she read 5 LLangs. and HNHN and memorized them, or something. 

And, in a sense, it could have been love, but it was a sick kind of love and that's what is slowing your beliefs in the truth. The truth is, she is bad for any marriage until and only if she changes and heals and that is quite unlikely when it really isn't against the law and she likes it. She likely sees no reason to change, nor understands why it hurts you because she was showing you "love" like it is supposed to look....when in the wife mode. 

She may think, what he doesn't know cannot hurt him, but we all know something. It's that old gut feeling that something just isn't right, and we don't realize it until we are out of that glow of new love. Spouses like her will try to keep that "high of new love" and "fog" in their marriage so there is less suspicion. Until they decide it's time to leave. 

Let it go. Talk in therapy. Know you didn't deserve it an you aren't alone. Because...you are not alone. There are others who go through the same. Many are in the group that she was hanging around. Some of them likely are married and do similar to their committed spouse. 

Time to heal. Keep getting that help and moving forward. Just get it done as best you can. No time limits. Just try to live and find new happiness. It's there for the taking. Make it healthy. You can do it.


----------



## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

deg20,

Your story is a hard one to read, I hope you heal, move on and have the kind of life you deserve.

What you did was a variation on fake texting, as an AP, WS, OMW, etc. I don't think you should feel bad about it at all, I certainly would not judge you for it. Sorry for the additional pain it caused.

Regarding her new relationship, I think she needs a secure relationship to function from, I would guess her secret life continues just as it did with you. Don't even think that her behavior had ANYTHING to do with you, and that now she will be different. That is just not the way it works.

As for your future. There is a whole "other" type of woman out there that does not need you for her happiness, and is truly able to give herself to a man. Hold out for that when you are ready, not one who throws herself at the attention you give her. You may hardly even be able to believe it when you get to know her. You will have to put your share of the work in that relationship to keep it healthy so work on yourself for now.

(Note a woman who is still "shopping" (for the next best partner) after she is with you is not that kind of woman.)

I really wish you well.
Take care.


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

deg20 said:


> I wanted to post this for the longest time but was afraid I'd be judged or ridiculed...
> I am not sorry I did it now, even though I drank heavily and shook uncontrollably during this period...and it was weird...there were times when this fake person I made up took over, and there were moments where I felt like I was truly him...almost surreal...
> 
> The talk and smut and events she relayed to my made-up guy made 50 Shades of Grey look like Peter Pan...she loved the attention...telling these stories..., which I may have thought she made up but she actually told me a few of them when she visited me, just in not as much detail. I never knew she could talk like this the whole time I was married to her. We had great sex always, but she never talked dirty in bed or did some of the things she told this fake guy. I couldn't believe that she would engage in sex with women...she never ever showed these tendencies while married, yet she spoke in detail about what she did to other women, and what they did to her while the man watched...


Nothing wrong with what you did, IMO. You wanted the truth, you found out some. 

As for the things she said she did...maybe she did them, maybe not.
Could be she was trying to impress the fantasy guy, who knows. 

It's what you do with the Intel that matters. Use it to move on...and you will be making the best of a bad situation
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

*Spouses like her will try to keep that "high of new love" and "fog" in their marriage so there is less suspicion. Until they decide it's time to leave. 
*

This in itself just gave me an "a-ha" moment.

It seems she started to act cold and callous when I began complaining about her frequent texting...so much so that I began to avoid her...she wasn't even responding to my conversations anymore...all this started about 2-3 months before she announced she was leaving me. There was even an instance when she said she was tired and going to bed...I followed about 20 minutes later...she was up, light on, texting. When I said, "I thought you were going to bed...you were tired", she got VERY defensive and barked back at me something rude...

This is probably when she realized she couldn't fake stuff anymore and that I was on to her...and she had "checked out"


----------



## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

deg20 said:


> This may have been damaging for me, but I would like to relay how I found out about my wife's sex addiction and waywardness...
> 
> ...I know this sounds unreal, but because I had a feeling about how far gone she was into this world of sex, I took a chance...I was right.


I've seen this in a few films and series. One comes to mind where the wife pretended to be another woman to find out if her husband was unfaithful. It's really not that uncommon. Your wife is... ja.

Anyways I hope that you're able to move on and focus on yourself and be healthy. Take the time you need to grieve and feel like s*** over this. As painful as it was/is, you needed it to help you see who she was/is and to help you start to get over her. It is devastating but you will recover, don't obsess and be kind to yourself.

Stay motivated and take up good habits.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

It could have been worse. There have been worse here, doing thi gs as you described and wosrse while married.

She the type that karma hits the hardest.

Why are you still in contact with her?


----------



## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Hope you got tested for stds.

Hopefully, you are divorced now.

Time to get her out of your life completely.

Be glad she is gone.

She is very bad news.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> Why are you still in contact with her?


Whoa!

He's still in contact with her? Where did I miss that?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Look bro, you did what you needed to do to get to the truth. Criminal investigators will make false promises and lie through their teeth to get a suspect to admit guilt. The courts have ruled that is perfectly legal.. 

What you did was unorthodox. I don't think it was masochistic. I think it was brave. 

You found out you had a monster in your bed all those years and didn't know it. Understand...she never changed. This is always who she was. She was a good actress and hid her dark side well. I think she got to a point where she could no longer keep the animal in her contained and the minute she got bored with the marriage she turned it loose.

She's a pathetic loser with poor coping skills and a penchant for lying. She will continue on this path with her new man. She will destroy this relationship too, and the next one, and the next one...


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

Thanks bandit45...

It's reassurance like your posts and everyone elses that truly make me feel better

And no...I am not in contact with her...she texted me a few weeks ago but I ignored...I am proud of that


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

You've earned that pride.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

deg20 said:


> Did she do this to just me?...because she was tired of me?...or is she doing it behind this new guy's back?


Not likely. Yes. Very likely yes or soon. Dawg, this chick is an alligator. When you mess with an alligator, you may get eaten. A hard lesson virtually all men experience in life is rescuing a damsel in distress and later have her dump them in the scrap pile and ride off with another knight. 
Another thing you need to know about women who spread it around. They enjoy gutting the man when they're done with him.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

Well she gutted me emotionally...and if she was like this before and now, then she hid it well during marriage...maybe I can at least take away the fact that she may have been faithful during marriage. But doing all this RIGHT AFTER...weeks...separation stilll makes me feel like there was no love there at all...or it was feigned


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

You need to quit investigating and move on to the next chapter of your life. There ain't gonna be no reward in finding out for sure. Remember to old saying about the more you stir shid, the worse it stinks.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I find it interesting how sl0ts will do shyt to not look so trashy by saying crap like..."never crossed the line while married" but will sext and send pics....It's like "I'm a tramp but not that much of a tramp"....but at the end of the day they just want to phuck.

Liars lie and for some stupid reason they will tell their new guy how much they want to screw and in the same breath try to maintain some sort of respect by making bull shyt statement like the one your old lady made. The fact is she phucked around all the time while married, she just doesn't want to look like a sl^t will asking some strange to meet up and bang her.

Crazy!

The way I see it is if some chick is going to behave like a sl^t...don't give me any bull crap about not crossing the line while married....just be honest.....ya right!

If sl^ts were honest, then they just might not like what they see in the mirror.

My point is they lie...they lie to us, they lie to the next guy, and most of all they lie to them selves.


----------



## May1968 (Dec 16, 2014)

I think that the OP needed closure so I don't feel he did anything wrong. Sometimes you need to be sure of your suspicions in order to kill the last feelings you have for the WW. I know I had to be positive that I would not go back to my ex-wife before I started a new relationship. This was OPs method to do just that. Now that he knows what she was, he can move on even though it was painful. Proving ones suspicions really isn't that much more painful than what you imagined.


----------



## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

deg20 said:


> Thanks joannacroc. Yes...the overall consensus is that she is sick...but is she still sick? She is in a relationship now. Did she do this to just me?...because she was tired of me?...or is she doing it behind this new guy's back?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Her friend can always text her to find out! Lol


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Deg

She is a woman that you leave behind you. Sever all connections with and in a few years you will read something bad about her in the newspaper.

Because cheaters like her only have so much luck before lightning strikes.

She will hook up with the wrong person or finally get an STD from such risky behavior.

Ignore her forever and go find a real woman.

HM


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

deg20 said:


> I wanted to post this for the longest time but was afraid I'd be judged or ridiculed...
> I am not sorry I did it now, even though I drank heavily and shook uncontrollably during this period...and it was weird...there were times when this fake person I made up took over, and there were moments where I felt like I was truly him...almost surreal...


Like you, I also found out most information about what really went on by creating fake profiles. The difference is that I created fake profiles of my wife and contacted the previous men that I had learned about. 

Was it worth it? I needed to find out and I don't regret doing it, but it was extremely stressful and unhealthy. The information I gained did answer several things that had not made sense. 

I'm glad to hear that you have mostly recovered.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

Yes...MOSTLY recovered. With all she did and all I found out and she turned into...even if shes normal now...I still miss her...but I miss who I thought she was, and even when I think of some good times...like when we first met or dated...I somehow lock out all the gross and disgusting stuff and think that maybe there was a slight chance she loved me...for me...

One of her last texts ...to which I didn't respond to...ended with a "Coffee Soon, OK?" request. At first I thought I might, but I DO NOT want to see or hear from her again. 

Yes, I found out a lot, and the damage still lingers


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Please stay away until you are healthier. Denial is not a river in Egypt. It's a real problem I suffer from, as well. Work closely with your counselor/therapist. It's really tough to recover from this kind of stuff. She obviously has not clue how it affected you. Therefore, you can expect more of the same. She is trying to use you once again. You believed in her. Others may have known better. I believed in my 2nd wife. It's a mistake to allow yourself to be vulneralbe with her. She will hurt you. It give her ammunition. Stay far far away.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> It's a mistake to allow yourself to be vulneralbe with her. She will hurt you. It give her ammunition. Stay far far away.


I will stay away 2ntnuf...but because she is involved with someone now, I'm not quite sure what you mean by ammunition?

I am pretty insignificant to her now. I'm sure the coffee request was to see if I would respond like a lapdog or to make sure I've moved on. She always was seemingly concerned about "hurting me"...in regard to leaving the marriage and leaving me alone, not about her escapades. But it's all about her, to make sure she's guilt free.

Ever since she left she wanted me to hurry up and find someone so, in her words, she's "off the hook"...aka free of guilt.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

deg20 said:


> I will stay away 2ntnuf...but because she is involved with someone now, I'm not quite sure what you mean by ammunition?
> 
> I am pretty insignificant to her now. I'm sure the coffee request was to see if I would respond like a lapdog or to make sure I've moved on. She always was seemingly concerned about "hurting me"...in regard to leaving the marriage and leaving me alone, not about her escapades. But it's all about her, to make sure she's guilt free.
> 
> Ever since she left she wanted me to hurry up and find someone so, in her words, she's "off the hook"...aka free of guilt.





> It's a mistake to allow yourself to be vulneralbe with her. She will hurt you. It give her ammunition.


I just didn't want you to think her being nice to you was an invitation from a woman who is healed and ready for a reconciliation. You have no proof of that. You wouldn't be ready for one anyway. I don't think. 

Allowing her to speak nice to you can cause you to fall backward into trusting her. If you trust her, you may open up and tell her about your life and so on. I think that would allow her to talk about you and embarrass you. Maybe she's not like that, but don't take the chance. You don't need to be hurt any further by a liar and a cheat. 

Well, I tried.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> I just didn't want you to think her being nice to you was an invitation from a woman who is healed and ready for a reconciliation. You have no proof of that. You wouldn't be ready for one anyway. I don't think.
> 
> Allowing her to speak nice to you can cause you to fall backward into trusting her. If you trust her, you may open up and tell her about your life and so on. I think that would allow her to talk about you and embarrass you. Maybe she's not like that, but don't take the chance. You don't need to be hurt any further by a liar and a cheat.
> 
> Well, I tried.


No...I appreciate it, and now that I know what you meant, I agree.

She has been doing this "be nice" treatment for a year, and you're right...I fell for it...but it was for her own well being...to either get something from me or make sure I'm not bitter. She can't handle conflict or people not liking/being mad at her.

I would never ever go back or even consider it. Too much pain and too many layers...could never ever trust her...or want to try to


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

It's none of her business if you are bitter or not. If she can't handle conflict, tough. That's her problem, not yours. Don't take on responsibility for her. You have enough to deal with. Did you or are you doing the 180? It's tough to do it all, but good to follow as much as you can. It's part of the sticky in CWI. 

Here it is: The Healing Heart: The 180

It's for you to harden and strengthen, not for you to draw her back.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

deg20 said:


> She always was seemingly concerned about "hurting me"...in regard to leaving the marriage and leaving me alone, not about her escapades.


Take my word for it Dawg, she's concerned about no longer being able to hurt you. Just from what you describe and the way she talks to you, her pleasure is derived, not from having sex with multiple guys, but using her puzzy to lure in and control men. She wants to see you scrum. She a man eater.


----------



## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> *Take my word for it Dawg, she's concerned about no longer being able to hurt you. * Just from what you describe and the way she talks to you, her pleasure is derived, not from having sex with multiple guys, but using her puzzy to lure in and control men. She wants to see you scrum. She a man eater.


Exactly!!


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

i forget are there still children in the equation? If not, block her calls. Shut it down completely. M


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The only judgement you're going to get here is how clever, brave and resourceful you have been.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

Thanks. Part of me feels this was just another layer of hurt piled upon the others. I knew we would never reconcile the day she left me. What I found out by doing this is how she really felt about me, her ease at putting herself out there for other men, and validation that she indeed slept with my friend the night she moved me out...despite her denial and her excuses she gave for where she really was that evening and what she did.

I asked her, looking her straight in the eyes and up close, if she still contacts my ex friend...she responded with a very convincing, "no, I don't talk to him anymore"...which was BEFORE she actually slept with him.

I guess I found out how easily she lies, and I can be secure in the knowledge that she lied while married...closure?...I guess so, but that doesn't cease the pain.


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

2ntnuf said:


> Had you not found out, you would have been asking yourself the rest of your life, if you could trust everyone including yourself. This way you know the score. You can start to learn how to recognize these lies and get away from that person.





ThePheonix said:


> It wasn't in so little time my man. She thought little of you for a long time. This goes to my thesis, and another clear example, that woman who cheat have lost interest in their SO.


This, and this ^^^

I didn't find out the real deal about my ex wife until 3-4 months after she left me. Up until then, I was in the dark (and naive) and didn't assume there was somebody else, let alone somebody else that had entered the picture BEFORE we split up.

For those 3-4 months, I still felt the same about her as I did the day she left. Though we had other issues, and I kind of knew I was better off, I still found it difficult at various times of the day to not have her around. And we remained "friends" throughout that time.

Then when she had to cop to the OM (she was moving and had to tell me), I started to see the real her. This got the ball rolling on my side of things, and I started to put 2 and 2 together, and the fog lifted. (she never admitted to anything but talking with him before we split up. For 2 years... Riiiight.)

It was extremely hard for me to deal with at that time (a second d-day, really), but in the end, it was the best thing that could have happened. Within a few weeks, I had rectified the events and was able to move on. Had I been left in the dark about the real events and activities, who knows how long I would have been hanging on to her (or the thought of her).

It (eventually) helped to know that she had checked out long before our split. It sucked to hear that, but believe me, it helped in the long run.

Sometimes you need a slap in the face (or a punch!) in order to help you move on with your life. I was treading water for several months, somewhere in between "glad to be on my own" and "maybe we'll work things out". Not a good place to be, because it's kind of a limbo.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

*Sometimes you need a slap in the face (or a punch!) in order to help you move on with your life. I was treading water for several months, somewhere in between "glad to be on my own" and "maybe we'll work things out". Not a good place to be, because it's kind of a limbo. 

*

That's me now I guess ...limbo...but slowly easing from it. Some of me believes her love was genuine throughout the 9 years...she'll tell me it was, but again, lies?...it felt like it was...a farce?

It's quite overwhelming to think I wasted almost a decade with her. I got nothing out of this...my family is gone...she keeps the house I moved into...and I can't help but think I could have been with a woman where I could have had my own kids and family. Instead I succumbed to the fact that I would take on her three kids and THAT was my future. At 44, it's unlikely that I will ever father a child of my own now, or will be cautious if the chance ever arises. I have a certain hatred for her now, but that's a foreign feeling...I've never hated anyone, and I don't think I have the capacity to hate, really...but it sure feels like it sometimes...but truly, I will always have more hurt than hate.



















|


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

eric1 said:


> Her friend can always text her to find out! Lol


Seriously, I'd probably do this :grin2:

Then send a screenshot of her texts to you/fake guy, to her boyfriend, sit back, and enjoy the show.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

That fake guy has been "gone" since October...I don't want to bring him back, really...He disappeared after I found out all I needed. We had dinner shortly after I made him disappear. During dinner, I asked if she ever hears from "him" ( fake guy ) anymore. She said, "no...I'm thinking that was you ( then some odd silence )...then she says, "I cried when he stopped responding"


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

deg20 said:


> That's me now I guess ...limbo...but slowly easing from it. Some of me believes her love was genuine throughout the 9 years...she'll tell me it was, but again, lies?...it felt like it was...a farce?
> 
> It's quite overwhelming to think I wasted almost a decade with her. I got nothing out of this...my family is gone...she keeps the house I moved into...and I can't help but think I could have been with a woman where I could have had my own kids and family. Instead I succumbed to the fact that I would take on her three kids and THAT was my future. At 44, it's unlikely that I will ever father a child of my own now, or will be cautious if the chance ever arises. I have a certain hatred for her now, but that's a foreign feeling...I've never hated anyone, and I don't think I have the capacity to hate, really...but it sure feels like it sometimes...but truly, I will always have more hurt than hate.


Nothing's a waste man, nothing.

Your situation reminds me a LOT of my ex wife (without the truly dirty bits, anyway). I have no doubt in my mind that my ex wife truly loved me at one point - none whatsoever. But people change, situations change, and there's not a whole helluva lot you can do about it.

But believe me, I also felt that my time with her was a waste, too. Yes, there were things that I missed out on, experiences I was never able to have, etc. But you have to put it in perspective. During the time that she and I were happy and in love, I didn't think it was a waste, and wouldn't have traded it for the world.

You can't predict the future and you can't change the past - you can only live in the now.

And here's the thing: I am now almost 7 years removed from that era of my life. I am happy, and I assume she is also happy, wherever she is. And that's all that really matters in the end.

I am positive she feels remorse for what she did (or rather, HOW she did it). She, too, was caught up in the fog at that time. Your ex will eventually see it this way, too. At the end of the day, it's the little things like this that help you overcome the feelings of having wasted your life away. My ex wife, for all the assumed happiness she has in her current life, will always remember that she met her current husband while still married to me. Perhaps the first time they slept together she was still married to me. And her husband will know this, too. The beginnings of relationships, and the memories one has of them, usually don't become important until well into the relationship itself. You don't think about those things until much later. I've had 3 important relationships in my life, and I can tell you in great detail the beginnings of each of them - where and how we met, first dates, first kisses, you name it. You generally don't forget things like that, because they're monumental.

When people ask me how my wife and I met, we have a happy and interesting story to tell, and we have those memories for ourselves.

When somebody asks my ex wife how she met her current husband, or vice versa, she won't have the same interesting story to tell. It's probably even worse for her husband. "Well you see, she was married to somebody else..."

Don't discount these little things. As long as my wife lives, and is with this guy, I will be a part of those memories. When I'm 85 years old, I'll probably not even remember her name (and not because I'll be senile!) whereas people like her, and your ex wife, will live with their actions as long as they live.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

*When people ask me how my wife and I met, we have a happy and interesting story to tell*

I met her in a bar...I went back to her house that night...I slept with her...as soon as we finished, she asked if I wanted her to drive me home...I said no, I'd like to stay the night...

...and that's how it happened. That night should have been a harbinger of who she was/is...had I went home that night instead of staying, maybe things would have changed. She probably had guys just before and right after this event...while dating me...sad, really.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She might have had an idea it was you and played you?

Even so, she isn't marriage material.


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

just makes you want to shake your head....as you walk away. Some people will never get it and never understand it...and no matter how much you try to explain it too them they will never understand...they are a self consuming enigma.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

*she isn't marriage material. *

One day, post separation, we were texting each other briefly...I texted your exact quote..."You aren't marriage material"...within seconds, she called me...she NEVER called me...only texted. She took offense to my statement. It struck a nerve. She went on about "how could I say that...yes I am...etc."

I think she realized that I was absolutely right.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

deg20 said:


> *When people ask me how my wife and I met, we have a happy and interesting story to tell*
> 
> I met her in a bar...I went back to her house that night...I slept with her...as soon as we finished, she asked if I wanted her to drive me home...I said no, I'd like to stay the night...
> 
> ...and that's how it happened. That night should have been a harbinger of who she was/is...had I went home that night instead of staying, maybe things would have changed. She probably had guys just before and right after this event...while dating me...sad, really.


I know you have to talk it out. I just want to weild a little hammer to make sure you don't slip backward. I don't mean to hurt you or stop you from talking about it. Just a little bit of reality to keep you moving forward. It's too damn easy to get stuck. I've been there and am still fighting.

Alex said,


> You can't predict the future and you can't change the past - you can only live in the now.


That's not to make you feel bad or scold. Just remember when you start to feel like things were maybe better than you think, she did you wrong. You fell for it, but she could have been truthful and told you she wasn't interested in long term, or something, anything other than stringing you along to use at her whim and fantasy. 

Anger, in the right amount, sometimes helps with depression and sentimental thoughts that aren't really true. In other words, it's tough to stay out of denial. You have to work on it all the time. It will get better.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

deg20 said:


> *she isn't marriage material. *
> 
> One day, post separation, we were texting each other briefly...I texted your exact quote..."You aren't marriage material"...within seconds, she called me...she NEVER called me...only texted. She took offense to my statement. It struck a nerve. She went on about "how could I say that...yes I am...etc."
> 
> I think she realized that I was absolutely right.


She's always known that she isn't. She's well aware that she uses men (did you help raise and support her children). She just didn't think that you knew it.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

*did you help raise and support her children*

I helped raise them, and paid half the mortgage/bills. She kept me from paying for their clothes, activities, etc., I found it odd when I moved in to her home that she stated I would never have to pay for her kids...their real dad was supposed to, but he reneged on support and was still taking her to court/harassing her for the first 5 years I was there...

I did put money into their gifts though...and I paid intermittently for guitar lessons for my stepson, etc...

I always helped them with schoolwork and I found them many jobs through my contacts. I supported her when they were giving her a hard time, which happened the entire time I was with her...depression, anxiety, hard to handle, no respect, etc...only from her two oldest kids...I tried...but in the end, I may have said a few things that didn't help. I didn't want her son moving back in....drugs and our marriage...and I didn't support her when she decided to take two days off work to visit her daughter, who just broke up with her first love at college...but I was so frustrated by her emptiness and texting and avoidance during this time, I believe it was my frustration coming through...


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Can you sue him for that money somehow?


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> Can you sue him for that money somehow?


No...he was deemed unworthy to work...funny enough he claimed it was from the stress and anguish from the divorce with her...and this was approved by doctors

he works under the table though...this was finished a few years ago


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

deg20 said:


> No...he was deemed unworthy to work...funny enough he claimed it was from the stress and anguish from the divorce with her...and this was approved by doctors
> 
> he works under the table though...this was finished a few years ago


Did you know this before you married? 

Also, what was his diagnosis and the reasons he claimed for his issues? Did he sue her for harming him?


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

He reneged when I met her...then about 5 years in he claimed disability...

But he too is an unruly character...he was abusive and controlling to her...I have heard about him as he is somewhat well known in my city...not an upstanding man...that is official...still..maybe he did have a point regarding her...she left him...and I only heard of the details through her and her family of the abuse to her, so maybe she DID play a part in all of that...he did claim she cheated though...she married him at 19...he was 36...lots of money

10 months later after him, another guy sold his house and moved in with her...a teacher with two kids...alcoholic...he left her a year and a half later...a month before getting engaged...she states it was because of friction from the kids that he left...and 10 months after him came me

Hard to sue here in Canada for anything...not like the states


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Deg you are giving this woman too much real estate in your head. Start concentrating on making yourself happy and content. Stop asking why and steer your ship into a new sea. You have alot to offer and you still have time to meet a woman and have kids. You are not too old. 

Get busy living or get busy...um...how does that go?


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Where abuse is concerned, there is really no excuse. However, that doesn't mean she was a saint. Like with excuses for cheating, there are lots of excuses for bad behavior. I'm sure some parts of what he said were true and some were not, just as what she said. And, you have to realize it's perspective. Her's and his will be different. Then someone outside looking in will be different. Just like her thoughts on your marriage and your thoughts. She seems like she doesn't think any of this is a big deal and you do. You and her can feel any way you like. Your feelings are neither right nor wrong. It's only actions that are right or wrong, like him abusing her. That's wrong no matter what she did or said. He could have left before he hit her. He may have excuses, but he still could have left, called the police and had her removed if she was threatening or violent, or something/anything non-violent.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

She isnt a sex addict, she is just a slvt. Thank your lucky stars you dont share children with her, and cut off all contact forever.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

I'm reading both your threads my man. Here's what it looks like at this point. You picked up this damsel in distress in a bar and she put something on you Ajax wouldn't take off. You discovered at some point there were a couple of bodies in her wake but you figured you were a different type man who had the qualities it took to rescue her. I mean hell, you must be special; she banged you then and there, right out of the gate. 
Now, years later, she has handed you your walking paper, letting you know you're no different than the other stooges she played. Your feeling like crap because all those years she kept you invested by making you feel ya'll had great thing and you were the cat's pajamas, was more or less a fraud. You keep obsessing because you're searching for something that indicates at least some of it was real, that she loved you, etc.,etc. In other words you want something to show you weren't completely outwitted by this vampire.
Here's the thing. None of that matters now. The only thing that matters is that now is you know the score and what you do with the rest of your life. Start by dating several other women. There is no antidote for a broken heart (aka broken ego) like other women. Don't let anybody shyt you on this.
A couple of other things. First, her ex old man who sez he's so screwed up because of her he can't work is probably telling the truth. The teacher dude likely limped away from the relationship before he became a basket case (and may have become an alcoholic after she met him) . Second, and memorize this, never get in a serious relationship with a woman who sleeps with you on the first date. You're setting yourself up for an azz kicking if you break this rule. You being 44, your daddy or granddaddy knew this rule and could have told you that.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

*you want something to show you weren't completely outwitted by this vampire.*

I think you summed it up perfectly Phoenix...that whole post...and as soon as I get a car July I will begin dating...

Maybe she's a fraud...maybe it was 9 years unloved...there were times...glimmers...that I felt loved...but what you say is true...I only hope she keeps frauding...and yes...I should have taken her up on her offer to drive me home that night...

Funny...her last series of texts a month ago, she stated "I don't want to live with anyone"...and considering her finances, I can't believe that...maybe she realized she isn't "live with" material...or maybe she's bull****ting...

I am leaving this all behind...great way to put it in perspective btw


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

deg20 said:


> That fake guy has been "gone" since October...I don't want to bring him back, really...He disappeared after I found out all I needed. We had dinner shortly after I made him disappear. During dinner, I asked if she ever hears from "him" ( fake guy ) anymore. She said, "no...I'm thinking that was you ( then some odd silence )...then she says, "I cried when he stopped responding"


There you go. She sort of knew it was you. That fits with her other comment about the threesome.

She is a tragic person because she is an addict. As HappyMan wrote she will end up in trouble. Sooner or later one of the men who gives her a buzz will be abusive. Once she is damaged from that, the likelihood that she goes on to yet another such person increases. Better not to be involved. She loved you for awhile but she wants a man who doesn't exist.

For her sex is a currency to get an emotional charge.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

*She is a tragic person because she is an addict.*

an addict?...well, I think she was...I think this was an intermittent, 8 month excursion of the wild life she never had...married young at 19, three kids...never more than ten months single from then on. I think her sexcapades was:

1. an escape to not deal with life and the break up and stress, albeit extreme and risky

2. My single friend that she contacted was living this lifestyle for a while...as they began texting, I believe he boasted this lifestyle to her ( he lives very far away ), he's very coercive...very...a manipulator to the nth degree and always single... so she tried it, and got hooked, but now is trying to establish a relationship...

I could be wrong, but I think this was just a rampant run at breaking loose...not saying she isn't disordered or screwed up though...just saying this was a space-filler until she met someone worthy, who'll she will try her utmost to be a good woman with...considering her age and financial bind...

could I be right here?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

deg20 said:


> could I be right here?


Who cares? Quit caring. Quit trying to figure her out. Quit obsessing! 

She is gone. Put her as far behind you as you can and move on to a better more fulfilled life. Learn to rely only on yourself emotionally. Learn to like who you are regardless of how others perceive you. Get fit, stay healthy, eat right and go out and do all those things you have wanted to do with your life. 

Go where it is dangerous. Do something you would have never done a year ago. Bungee jump, skydive, learn kickboxing, learn to surf, take guitar lessons, buy an old classic car and restore it, join a geek Sci Fi group online, buy a motorcycle, hike, go spelunking, travel to Alaska and climb Denali...

There is a vast world awaiting you. This filthy woman is an anchor tying you to hell. Step on her memory and squash it, then scrape the crud of your shoe and keep trucking down the road...


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I think I spelunked my shorts once. 

She's a scum bag. She treated you with no respect and she crapped all over your love and hard work. Nothing you did made any difference. She wanted what she wanted and was going to get it. She left you in the dust because she doesn't care about anyone except herself. She's worthless as a wife. And, you know this first hand.


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

deg20 said:


> *When people ask me how my wife and I met, we have a happy and interesting story to tell*
> 
> I met her in a bar...I went back to her house that night...I slept with her...as soon as we finished, she asked if I wanted her to drive me home...I said no, I'd like to stay the night...
> 
> ...and that's how it happened. That night should have been a harbinger of who she was/is...had I went home that night instead of staying, maybe things would have changed. She probably had guys just before and right after this event...while dating me...sad, really.


I just want to point out that there are many happy couples here who met in a bar and/or slept together right away. It happens, and it doesn't mean somebody isn't relationship/marriage material. Just because somebody is lonely or vulnerable when you meet them doesn't mean they're not capable of being in a relationship. FWIW, you also went home with her, so I'd say your mindset was pretty much the same as hers - lonely, drunk and horny.

What happens on a first date is not indicative of what'll happen in the future, it just isn't. My ex wife and I didn't sleep together for about 2 months after we started dating, and she was almost as screwed up as your ex wife.

That said, it's one of the unwritten rules of hooking up that both parties treat it as just that. It's supposed to fill an immediate need only. Everybody gets lonely at some point, or needs an ego boost (ie. to get hit on, or be successful at picking up). It's funny, because one-night-stands are almost always about more than just sex, including for men. It's about getting a quick fix of whatever it is you're missing in your life at that moment. Human contact, validation, ego boosts, confidence. You name it.

People usually have ONS's to fill all those needs during the periods of time that they have no interest, or means, to be in an actual relationship (no time, no energy, no desire).

Thus, it's an unwritten rule that both parties go their separate ways afterwards, even if one party feels some sort of connection (which is usually just a byproduct of having sex with somebody, anyway).

So the reality is that this rule is not based upon the perceived lack of character of the parties involved (as in, it's in no way an indicator of somebody's ability to function in a relationship), but rather that it's an indicator of somebody's mindset at that particular time (ie. not interested in a relationship, only looking for validation/ego boost/sex/human contact).


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

alex,

In this instance, it was indicative of something more. If that statement is true, and your statement about it not being indicative of something more is also true, one can never know. 

What would be indicative of the opposite? Obviously, the answer is nothing, if the first statement is true. In other words, there is no way to know. Is there a way to be a little more certain of one or the other? I think it's all a guess. One might think that those who respect themselves more would likely not have a one night stand. That isn't always the case, though. 

So, how is it possilbe that a person might know another? Time with them isn't indicative of anything. He spent years with her, never knowing who she was. What do you suggest a person, man or woman do to be more certain that a potential spouse is compatible? 

Is it more likely that someone who has regular one night stands is like his wife? Is it less likely someone who does not have regular one night stands is more likely to be like his wife? You see, in my opinion, she wasn't even worth a one night stand. It was highly risky to even have sex with her once. The possibility of contracting some disease or infection was high. Is one night worth a lifetime of disease?

How would a person be less likely to contract a disease or fall in love with the wrong person?


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

You both pose interesting feedback here, and both have accountability...

In hindsight, I believe that this was her usual modus operandi...this is exactly how she behaved once she left me, as she relayed this first hand on numerous occasions...she'd hook up, have sex, and either ask the guy to leave, or leave herself. She never stayed the night with her partner...ever.

That night, after sex...no intercourse, but everything else...we might as well have... she laid there with me for about a half hour...then volunteered to drive me home. I asked, "why"..."because that's usually what the guy wants", she replied ( I remember like it was yesterday )...she was quite surprised, yet not disappointed when I stayed...the next morning I got her number, waited a few days and called her...we saw each other 3-4 times a week and began a relationship...

There were probably many guys before me, and some "during" our dating period I'm sure...considering her behaviour after we separated


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

2ntnuf said:


> One might think that those who respect themselves more would likely not have a one night stand. That isn't always the case, though.


Here's the thing - we all go through periods of our lives where we don't respect ourselves, or don't feel good about ourselves. We just do. For some people, it happens more often, or for longer periods of time.

It's funny, because my attitudes towards ONS's are extremely similar to yours. I just try to recognize that it's not necessarily indicative of future behaviour, never mind over all character.

It's destructive (or potentially destructive) and also risky behaviour, but it fills a need at the time, which is what it's really about. It's rarely, if ever, about simply getting laid, man or woman.

I don't condone it, I've never done it myself, and I've even spoken to my almost-15-year-old about the potential ramifications of hookups and ONS's.

But all that I'm saying is that it doesn't indicate anything more than two people who are at a low enough point mentally and/or emotionally to engage in something that (temporarily) fills that need.

And the reality is that there should be no shame in engaging in such behaviour, as far as I'm concerned. The post I was replying to cast a veil of shame on OP's wife simply by him saying "I should have known better", due to the fact that she took him home from a bar right after meeting.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

alexm said:


> Here's the thing - we all go through periods of our lives where we don't respect ourselves, or don't feel good about ourselves. We just do. For some people, it happens more often, or for longer periods of time.
> 
> It's funny, because my attitudes towards ONS's are extremely similar to yours. I just try to recognize that it's not necessarily indicative of future behaviour, never mind over all character.
> 
> ...


alex,

My comment had two purposes. Neither of which was meant to shame anyone. 

First of all, I thought your comment was good, but very general and this thread is about deg's ex. Edit: A better choice of words might be that this is about deg's marriage to one woman and his experiences as he sees them. ee. That's what I was thinking about when I commented. So, in his case, I think what you posted is very general and he can't rely on just that. 

Secondly, if you read my post, I asked a question about how one would determine or may have a very slight chance of determining if someone is compatible. Compatible isn't a shaming word. 

In deg's case, he didn't feel ashamed of her and found out she wasn't a match. A ons did not make him feel ashamed about himself, either. I made no judgements. I pointed no fingers. There is no shame in those statements for anyone to feel. They are simply facts.

So, I just don't think those things you stated in that post are very reliable for finding a good match. What I do wonder is, what would help in determining if a person is compatible with another. Since deg is moving forward I thought this was a reasonable question, so he has a better chance of finding a compatible mate the next time. 

You talked about complications due to some folks getting feelings from having sex. I agree. Some do get those feelings and it complicates things. That's not shaming.

Some don't get those feelings. That's not a shaming comment either.

So, how does someone who gets those feelings quickly, have a better chance of finding someone who is a close match? That's not shaming.

So, if one is the kind that gets feelings quickly from sex that complicate things, what might be the best manner to go about finding someone who is a match without complicating things? My inferred answer was to get to know someone before having sex with them. That's not a shaming comment. It's a personal choice. I think it does afford a little more opportunity to find a better match. That's not shaming. 

There is no way to know for certain and I made a similar statement in my first post you commented on. It's not shown in your reply. Context is important in this instance.

There's no shame in any of that, or the post I made. I didn't get a sense of shame in deg's post either. Maybe I misinterpreted his post? Knowing what he has posted, I don't think my conclusions are way off base. They aren't shaming general comments. 

Look, we all come from a different perspective and my opinions are no less valid than anyone else's. Neither are your's.

Sorry if I embarrassed you. That wasn't my intention.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

She asked to take me home after sex the night I met her...she had no intention, I don't believe, of carrying it further than sex. I asked to stay over...I asked for her number the next day. So I decided to progress through this, and I didn't know she'd turn out this way. If she wasn't a ppl pleaser or afraid to say no she would have insisted I go home...We had a date 4 days later and the rest is history...


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Deg, for the future, did you read what I said about not getting in a serious relationship with a woman who sleeps with you on the first date?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

deg20 said:


> She asked to take me home after sex the night I met her...she had no intention, I don't believe, of carrying it further than sex. I asked to stay over...I asked for her number the next day. So I decided to progress through this, and I didn't know she'd turn out this way. If she wasn't a ppl pleaser or afraid to say no she would have insisted I go home...We had a date 4 days later and the rest is history...


Two things come to mind when you describe her...the way she was when you met her and what she told you about her past...

Deg, I will bet you even money she was sexually abused as a girl. Not only sexually abused, but probably ALOT...by many men, probably one or two in her own family. CSA causes this exact kind of sociopathic behavior. 

She cannot handle being with a man who respects her and loves her, because she grew up being used as a human toilet... so she does not know how to respond to kindness and normalcy. Sexual deviancy IS the norm for her. 

Maybe I'm off base ... maybe I'm just shooting my mouth off...

But something made her this way, and it was not you and it is not MLC or hormones. Her issues go waaaaay deeper.


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

2ntnuf said:


> alex,
> 
> My comment had two purposes. Neither of which was meant to shame anyone.
> 
> First of all, I thought your comment was good, but very general and this thread is about deg's ex. Edit: A better choice of words might be that this is about deg's marriage to one woman and his experiences as he sees them. ee. That's what I was thinking about when I commented. So, in his case, I think what you posted is very general and he can't rely on just that.


No, no! I didn't say you were using shaming language (neither was OP, for that matter, consciously, anyway). What I meant is that the context of the post swayed towards the negatives of a ONS - using it as an excuse or that he "should have known better".

My response was that the idea of "should have known better" is not accurate, in that simply because somebody sleeps with somebody else so quickly after meeting does not indicate that they are not capable of a long term relationship or marriage. It only indicates what that persons mindset is at that exact moment.

Sorry if you read me the wrong way!


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Odd how that quoted funny like that. Maybe...something is weird. hahaha 



alexm said:


> No, no! I didn't say you were using shaming language (neither was OP, for that matter, consciously, anyway). What I meant is that the context of the post swayed towards the negatives of a ONS - using it as an excuse or that he "should have known better".
> 
> My response was that the idea of "should have known better" is not accurate, in that simply because somebody sleeps with somebody else so quickly after meeting does not indicate that they are not capable of a long term relationship or marriage. It only indicates what that persons mindset is at that exact moment.
> 
> Sorry if you read me the wrong way!


No problem. I read you wrong, too. ha!

Yeah, that's unfair to himself to believe he might have known anything by that. 

I do agree with no indication that they cannot have a long-term relationship. 

I just think it would last longer if it was two people who have the same views about it.


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

bandit.45 said:


> Two things come to mind when you describe her...the way she was when you met her and what she told you about her past...
> 
> Deg, I will bet you even money she was sexually abused as a girl. Not only sexually abused, but probably ALOT...by many men, probably one or two in her own family. CSA causes this exact kind of sociopathic behavior.
> 
> ...


Possible.

But it could also be far less nefarious than the above, too. Let's not jump to conclusions and make the assumption that a woman who has difficulty in relationships and with sex must have been abused in some way.

She may just not think very highly of herself for any number of reasons. She may really like sex. She may be clinically depressed and this makes her feel better (same principal as alcohol or drugs - the vicious cycle). She may be a sociopath, lacking in empathy for others. She may just feel that she's not worth anything to anybody because she's a middle child, or was neglected by her parents. Maybe she's never seen a healthy adult relationship in her life, so she doesn't know what it is. Who knows?

Sure, some signs may point to abuse, sexual or otherwise, but I don't feel it's right to jump to that every single time a woman proves incapable of a healthy relationship or acts out sexually. We don't typically see the same diagnosis when it's a man acting this way.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

*Deg, for the future, did you read what I said about not getting in a serious relationship with a woman who sleeps with you on the first date? *

Phoenix...I did and you are absolutely right...and it is definitely lesson learned...I have never done this til that night...at 34 years old. And I will be very honest here...when we left the bar that night, she asked me to leave with her, and I said lets go to Tim Hortons for a coffee...she said yes...then halfway home she said she had coffee at her house so she took me there instead...we never had coffee

and I'll pass on more advice you probably know...don't move with someone in 5 months and don't marry someone 5 months later...especially when SHE asks YOU...sitting on the side of the bed and saying half assed, " Hey...we should get married eh?"


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

2ntnuf said:


> I just think it would last longer if it was two people who have the same views about it.


The irony is that they started out on the same page. Yet now it's a "should have known better" thing.

I was just pointing out that ANY relationship that ends badly always has a "should have known better" element to it. My first marriage sure did.

I just think it's wrong to bring up the ONS part of this story, as he was there, too. Nothing's stopping her from saying "I should have known better", either. The simple act of a ONS between two consenting people is no indicator of things to come, IMO. Does it really, truly matter when two people in a relationship first slept together? If they waited 2 months, she still would have gone the same route in the end.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> Two things come to mind when you describe her...the way she was when you met her and what she told you about her past...
> 
> Deg, I will bet you even money she was sexually abused as a girl. Not only sexually abused, but probably ALOT...by many men, probably one or two in her own family. CSA causes this exact kind of sociopathic behavior.
> 
> ...


I honestly thought of this lately. Sex at such a young age which she says was consented...maybe it wasn't...then I thought it could be two people that came into her life around the same time as our demise...my perverted ex friend who has lived this way forever...volleyball coach who was actually caught by one of his female players climbing in her bedroom window one night...he is very manipulative and they got real close real fast...told my fake friend shed do anything to please him...and a bi sexual female friend in her late 20's she met at workout camp who is into the threesome/free sex thing 

and her first husband who was controlling and manipulative with her...took her bank card from her and she had to ask him to use it ( that's her story though ). He Made sex videos with her, and when she left him, he threatened to show the family and mutual friends...she was 19 and he 36 when they married.

But the whole abused thing always crossed my mind. No doubt she was pretty loose before I met her, so maybe it is a deep underlying issue...not abused by her dad I don't think...but by men in general..


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

*Maybe she's never seen a healthy adult relationship in her life, so she doesn't know what it is. *

OK, now this I KNOW is certain. College boyfriend was terrible to her...stalked her...and I'm sure she told me he hit her once or twice. I knew him in highschool...it is likely this is true...

Her parents and all siblings are all in healthy marriages...

But her run of men before me was bad. Seems like lots of older guys used her. She was very physically advanced young...tall...voluptuous...pretty...many men older took advantage I believe...she snuck behind her moms back in highschool to date an older guy who lived in a roadside motel....so this theory is quite possible...

I find all your theories and everyone else's interesting...


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

alexm said:


> The irony is that they started out on the same page. Yet now it's a "should have known better" thing.
> 
> I was just pointing out that ANY relationship that ends badly always has a "should have known better" element to it. My first marriage sure did.
> 
> I just think it's wrong to bring up the ONS part of this story, as he was there, too. Nothing's stopping her from saying "I should have known better", either. The simple act of a ONS between two consenting people is no indicator of things to come, IMO. Does it really, truly matter when two people in a relationship first slept together? If they waited 2 months, she still would have gone the same route in the end.


No they didn't. He wasn't honest with himself about what he believes. Unless I'm misunderstanding deg?

I think he said, or he led me to believe he didn't do ons. Am I mistaken? Did I miss something or gloss over something?

As far as the ons stuff. Two people who have done it for years and are used to that would likely understand each other better and have similar feelings. That seems pretty simple to believe and not patronizing or judging anyone negatively. I don't think it's shaming?

Therefore, two who have not done that stuff for years would likely be similar.

Again, no guarantees, but darned if I could fully believe anything less logical. Again, no intent to shame. I'm just looking at being most compatible.

Matter when they first slept together? No, but I think it does if one never did it before and the other did it for years. I think that's a huge difference in understanding and possibly even a big difference in sexual knowledge, as well as a possible difference in drives. All of which would make any two less compatible. I think it could indicate a huge difference in EQ as well. Not always, but since we are talking what ifs' and nothing concrete here. Again, nothing shameful, just likely, but not guaranteed to be mismatched. 

You say she would have gone the same route in the end? Maybe, but as much as we don't know if two are compatible when the sleep together on the first date, we can't say for sure she would have turned out the same. 

In this case, she did turn out this way. She drove him to her house. She took the initiative. He said he never had a ons before her. She dominated him and charmed him. That is awfully enticing for someone inexperienced and can easily be misunderstood. Been there myself alex, although it was the second date for me. Big deal, huh? Which is why I said you can't know in my above posts.

So, I think it could be an indication of incompatibility and in many cases, likely is. Again, not shaming. If two are down with this stuff, no problem. They likely have less things to consider when determining compatibility. See what I did there? :wink2:


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

a few posts before this one I explained...I left the bar not intending to have a one night stand...she steered me to that...and also...even right after sex, I wanted to see her again...in fact, I wanted to stay the night.

The fact she wanted to drive me home at 2 in the morning on a chilly Northern Ontario spring night should have spoke volumes. I called the next day. I asked her out for a date. Her intentions and mine Im afraid started out different...


----------



## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

deg20 said:


> . . . That night, after sex...no intercourse, but everything else...we might as well have... she laid there with me for about a half hour...then volunteered to drive me home. I asked, "why"..."because that's usually what the guy wants", she replied ( I remember like it was yesterday )...she was quite surprised, yet not disappointed when I stayed...the next morning I got her number, waited a few days and called her...we saw each other 3-4 times a week and began a relationship . . .


Now it all makes sense.

Most guys didn't want to spend the night with her. You not only did, you pursued and fell hard for her. She realized that she had a man who she could take advantage of even to the point of abusing. She did for nine years. Even after you discovered what kind of woman she is, you were emotionally enthralled by her. To this day, despite what you say, you're not over her.

Think about it, deg20. Most guys can't stand to spend the night with her and you have difficulty giving her up after she treats you like sh*t. You understand that she's screwed up, but do you comprehend how screwed up you are?

I would urge you to read _"No More Mr. Nice Guy"_ by Dr. Robert Glover (https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf). I would also urge you to get counseling to address your serious lack of self-respect.

Good luck.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

The profile does fit with her being sexually abused as a young child (pre-puberty). However, that is not relevant from the standpoint you two have split up. She did what she did, and it is not acceptable. It is a waste of time to dwell on why she did it. Knowing of her sex abuse might cause a lot of puzzle pieces to fall into place. And it might make you feel sorry for her. That's a complication you don't need. She's broken, you're moving on.

The advice to read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" is a good one.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

*but do you comprehend how screwed up you are?
*

sadly...I do...but feeling better...and yes, my ego and self respect and confidence are next to nil, but Im pulling through...and I AM getting over her. Just in the last month or so I am realizing, with all the input on here and other sites, how screwed up she is and was...it shouldn't have taken this long, but the love and respect is emptying from the tank daily for her...and on empty now...


----------



## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

deg20 said:


> *but do you comprehend how screwed up you are?
> *
> 
> sadly...I do...but feeling better...and yes, my ego and self respect and confidence are next to nil, but Im pulling through...and I AM getting over her. Just in the last month or so I am realizing, with all the input on here and other sites, how screwed up she is and was...it shouldn't have taken this long, but the love and respect is emptying from the tank daily for her...and on empty now...


Good to hear but, please, read NMMNG.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Try to get some activities you can do to be with others. It would be good to get out with the guys doing things. Sitting and dwelling on this alone will hurt more than help. I'd suggest waiting to date. You need to heal. Others might have different advice. In the end, you have to do what you think is best. Make a list of things you would have done if you were single all those years and see if you can do any of them now. Make plans on days that were important and change their meanings by having new good memories associated with those days.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> Try to get some activities you can do to be with others. It would be good to get out with the guys doing things. Sitting and dwelling on this alone will hurt more than help. I'd suggest waiting to date. You need to heal. Others might have different advice. In the end, you have to do what you think is best. Make a list of things you would have done if you were single all those years and see if you can do any of them now. Make plans on days that were important and change their meanings by having new good memories associated with those days.


I play ball twice a week. I do go out for beers a couple nights a week, but every one of my friends is married with kids, so making plans with them is next to impossible. I golf here and there...but you're right. Living alone in a one bedroom apartment has been the hardest part of this...but I'm past the sadness of going to bed by myself, and waking up by myself...that was really tough for the first 6-7 months. Mornings are still a little tough, I'll admit.

Also, I'm getting a car in July, so I can leave when I want and do my own chores then instead of relying on my brother for groceries, etc....the bus service is brutal.

I am waiting to date...I tried this at first, and nothing came of it. I just wasn't into it, and I ended up taking women to dinner that had nothing in common with me. I don't go to bars, but I will sit and watch a hockey or baseball game with a friend if they are available.

A few things keep my mindset from sadness, but the biggest is believing this was inevitable...believing no matter what I could have done better...attend more functions with her, chip in for groceries more often, be less anal about a clean kitchen...it wouldn't have mattered. You guys also helped me realize how broken and maybe sick she is. She isn't normal, and I see that now...so I guess being without her is better than being with her.

I got out of this with no financial burdens. I took her offer of 20 grand to walk, and my 25 000.00 loan in my name was added to the mortgage when we re-financed a few years ago. The house is in in her name, and a relatives now. Believe it or not, I offered to still make payments on my loan ( I had this loan before I married her and it had to be added to our debts in order to re-finance ) after separation as I did while married, but she wanted nothing to do with me, so it was absorbed into the mortgage and is her problem now.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Here's an article I posted in another thread. Maybe it will help you further. 

Don?t Fall for Infidelity | World of Psychology

Make new single friends. Do things that place you in some kind of authority, start small. Offer to do things you might not have before. Volunteer at the local food bank, homeless shelter, or another charity. 

I believe this is the international site for meetups. I'm not sure where you live and don't need to know. You may find new friends with similar interests in one or more groups. Is it a reach for a guy who already has friends? Yes, in some ways, but it may help a man stuck with a group of friends who are married and isn't sure where to start. It's at least worth looking at in your area.

International Friends Meetups - Meetup I believe that's the site. Someone correct me if I am mistaken.

Definitely read NMMNG. Then you can move on to others as you see fit. If it doesn't fit you, you haven't lost anything. I think most men find something that fits them in there. I've listened to the audio book a couple times. You have to want to make changes in yourself and work toward those. It's not just a read and then all is well. There is living what you believe and practicing that in all things.

Stay away from alcohol altogether for a little while. It is a depressant and will bring you down. Sugar and caffeine will lift you high and then drop you like a hot potato. You will feel worse after you come down. Caffeine can lift you out of deep despair, but it should only be used when you are at your lowest. Drink only a cup of tea or coffee, not a pot. 

Keep going to see a therapist/counselor. Get meds if you need them to help with depression or anything a doctor believes you need. 

Stay away from starchy foods or what I call white foods. White rice, white potatoes, white bread, and so on, They will also cause some mood swings. 

Eat dark green leafy vegetables, dark berries, lean and if possible meat that comes from animals who have not been fed hormones or other chemical additives to their food. 

Look up some diets and consult your doctor to be certain nothing will conflict with any meds or be unhealthy.

Get out among friends or make new ones. Push yourself to do things which challenge you a little, but don't do things that are dangerous or illegal.

You can also volunteer with your church or if you don't do church, volunteer with Habitat for Humanity.

Don't stay idle. It will only make you dwell on things you don't need to worry about. Keep busy. 

Watch humorous television when you have to or something that isn't related to sad stories. Listen to music that motivates you or makes you laugh. Stay away from sad songs. 

One step at a time and perseverance will help you. 

Exercise is your friend. It will increase adrenaline and keep you healthy. I believe I don't need to tell you that. I just had to post it for my own self-respect. 

If you keep your mind in the present, it will help you. The past is gone. The future is not written. Live the best life you can for today. Tomorrow will take care of itself. Do that each day and the good will more than outweigh the bad. 

Make new fun memories on the days that have some old significance. The new memories will replace the old and you will feel good on those days with this as a regular practice. 

Read the books suggested to you for self-help. If you are not sure, ask your therapist. Don't overwhelm yourself trying to do all of this list at one time. One step at a time is all it takes. Just keep taking those steps, marching forward. 

Confronted with something new? Make the best decision you can at the time and let it go. You can only work with what you know and move on to the next thing that comes up. There is no shame in making mistakes. We all do it. 

Live your life the best you can. That's all you can do. No one can live it for you or make your decisions. You will be alright and happier, if you control your own life and worry about your health first. You will then have something to give to others. 

You can do it.


----------

