# Help Us Please



## sniper (Dec 5, 2013)

I need help. My wife and I are Christians by the way. 

We seem to be in a sexless marriage. There is a lot of history here but I want to give you the info to get the help we need.

Right now it has been 8 months since we had sex last. Before that we may have had it once or twice this year. 

This has left me (the husband) in a strange place. Early in our marriage I hounded her for sex and eventually gave up. I stopped trying because of constant rejection. I would want it still but never ask.

But now I have gotten to a point where I not only do not ask but I actually feel as though I "don't want it". I know that I really do want it though because of the temptation to look at porn and self pleasure.

Remember I am a Christian though and that is not acceptable.

So how do I stop "not wanting it"?

I ask because my wife "says" she wants to try to have sex today. But I "don't want it" and frankly have heard the "promise" before so I don't believe it.

Extra Details

1. My wife is always sick with something or another.
2. She has been sexually assaulted in the past.
3. She will ask me to use a toy on her semi often but refuses to do anything for me.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Sexless marriage is the symptom of something going wrong in the relationship.

Not sure that Christianity frowns on masturbation.

Did you two ever have a good sex life? If not, then you both need to work on your trust issues that prevent you from being honest and open about sex. You could start by telling her exactly what you've written here. If at one point you did have a good sex life, then you have to ask her why she lost her attraction to you.

What conversations have you had about sex and your relationship?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Do you feel that your wife has "dealt with" her prior sexual abuse? There's a number of threads in here that deal with the fallout of childhood sexual abuse and how it impacts future intimate relationships. 

What about counselling, through your church or not?

And when you say she's sick... Is she really sick, or just making excuses?

C


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## Happyquest (Apr 21, 2009)

you might want to start and see if she will watch this. This might get her and you talking about how your feeling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-9cIZbOr_w


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Sniper, I wonder why you had to say that you were Christians in the first line?
I presume because you are 'active' believers, in that you pray, go to church often and try to live your lives according to the Holy Book.

Although I 'believe' I am not 'active'....however I do know that there are passages in the bible that basically say that a husband and wife should avail themselves to each other sexually so as to keep the work of satan at bay.

All marriage vows (as far as I know) basically say the say thing; with my body I thee honour. That means that each spouse will avail their bodies to each other (as above). 
With-holding sex (as against being unable to due to medical reasons) goes against Gods will and the very sanctity of marriage.

If your wife refuses to have 'adequate' sex with you then she is breaking her marriage vows and insulting the Almighty.

Obviously you (thats you PLURAL) must address these issues and reach an acceptable compromise. If you cannot then there is NO marriage. 
Do the honourable thing for you wife, yourself and the Almighty and divorce.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Did you guys ever have a healthy sex life? Or was it always sexless? 

How are you connecting emotionally?


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

sniper said:


> I need help. My wife and I are Christians by the way.
> 
> We seem to be in a sexless marriage. There is a lot of history here but I want to give you the info to get the help we need.
> 
> ...


Sniper...well first how old are the two of you and how long ago was she assaulted? Did she get any counseling for the assault? Has she always been resistent to sex ... did she ever "want" to have sex with you?

The toy thing is not uncommon in assault victims...it is a non-touch intimacy thing. It feels safer and you still get pleasure, this probable means she has a sex drive but she has issues with being touched from the assault. It is not uncommon for assault victims to suffer from mis-placed aggression and mis-placed association, when you go through a trauma you and are not able to work through the emotions and injuries withe person that hurt you sometimes you unconciously do it with someone else...because you do have to work through the emotions and injuries.. Just my guess. Do you two get along outside the bedroom ok, any issues there?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daSaint (Sep 20, 2013)

since you said you're christians, I will suggest you go see your pastor for counselling/prayers. You both need to be very open and sincere about the matter.
I don't know what your r/ship looks like outside the bedroom, but you need to earn her trust & confidence in every way.
That being said, she as well needs to make a conscious effort to fulfil her vows, show you love and not be selfish. In this world, we all get abused one way or the other - we just can't totally escape some form of abuse, but we can choose to remain captive of those abusive experiences, or get over them and enjoy the best of what this short life gives us. I don't know how old you both are, how long you've been together/married and if you have children. However, for the sake of all she holds dear, she needs to stop living in fear & suspicion (look at what 2Tim1:7 says...'God doesn't want us to be shy with his gifts, but bold and loving and sensible.'...the message bible)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox (Mar 31, 2013)

The 800 lb gorilla in the room is the past sexual abuse... you guys need to work on that, first and foremost. Pressuring for sex (which I know you no longer do) is definitely not a good thing when it comes to people with abuse in their past... Not sure if things can be patched up, but if you truly love each other, IC and MC may help right the ship...


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

if you really are not interested in sex or the emotional intimacy that comes with it consider taking an antidepressants with sex drive dampening side effects.

You will feel better and the desire will lessen. 

The problem in your marriage will not go away but the symptoms will be easier to endure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sniper (Dec 5, 2013)

> Not sure that Christianity frowns on masturbation.


We do not believe it does... we just do not believe in the use of porn.



> Did you two ever have a good sex life?


To be honest the first few months were "ok". We may have had sex once or twice a week if I begged for it. But there was a lot of problems. She would tell me I was wanting it too much. Also she told me she did not like sex.

I understand it may have partly been because of my lack of experience but I like to believe I have improved and she now says she likes it. We have never had a problem with her climaxing...often multiple times actually.



> What conversations have you had about sex and your relationship?


We are able to talk about things openly for the most part in our relationship. This is one area things get hard though. I have always done my best to reassure her and comfort her. But if I bring up the subject of sex she does not want to talk about it really. She does however say that she feels bad that we don't have it. She also says she feels like nothing she does is good enough. 

I try to praise her all the time though. She says she feels that way because I will say "don't stop" when I am enjoying it and that it makes her feel like she can't please me... (by the way, she will normally stop doing whatever it is after 30 seconds or so whether I say that or not). I also try to tell her what I like and don't like. I believe it is part of communication. I am never harsh at all. But if I let her know something hurts she again says she feels like I am not pleased with her.

I have told her how I feel about our current situation. I told her everything I am saying here. I have told her I do not trust her because of all the times she said we would have sex and then something came up or she just forgot. I suggested counseling but she doesn't want to do that.

She says she will make more of an effort and then the cycle continues.



> Do you feel that your wife has "dealt with" her prior sexual abuse?


She has been in and out of counseling and dealt with it as best she could. She believes she no longer needs it and will not go anymore. She has told me that she used to have flashbacks while we had sex. But I believe she has improved.



> And when you say she's sick... Is she really sick, or just making excuses?


She is often really sick with colds, random pain, and things like UTI's. However this is not ALL the time. I do not expect her to want sex when she is hurting... but it is not all the time that she hurts. I just feel like there are 365 days in a year and even with half of the year being sick that is still 6 months of possible sex...so why only 3 days of sex in a year?



> Sniper, I wonder why you had to say that you were Christians in the first line?


A few reasons. 

1. I wanted to stop any thought of divorce talk before it started.
2. I wanted to make it clear that we do not believe in the use of porn (though we had fallen into it at one point together and it seemed to actually improve our sex life...but again there were issues of guilt with it so we stopped).



> How are you connecting emotionally?


We actually have a VERY good marriage in EVERY other area. We are both loyal and we communicate very well about everything but this. We laugh together and try to go on dates. We try to take care of each others needs. We just seem to fail here.



> Sniper...well first how old are the two of you and how long ago was she assaulted? Did she get any counseling for the assault? Has she always been resistent to sex ... did she ever "want" to have sex with you?


We are both close to 30. She was assaulted at the age of 13. She did get counseling. She has told me she wanted sex...but she also told me she didn't at one point early in our marriage. But that now she does.



> Do you two get along outside the bedroom ok, any issues there?


She is my world and I am hers. We love each other very much. We get along great. Lately though I am thinking this is starting to take its toll. Because without that connection we seem to be growing distant. It is almost like very loving roommates that don't have sex and have pledged loyalty to each other.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I don't think your situation is fixable. I think it's time that you just resign yourself to it being the way it is and learn to live with it. The main reason I don't think it's fixable is that it doesn't look like you've got it in you to do the hard work that it will take to fix it. It doesn't look like you're one of those guys who has it in him to rock the boat enough and destabilize the relationship. What you'll do is cherry pick the advise you receive, praise the easy stuff, ignore anything that makes you uncomfortable etc... We see that a lot here and the result with that personality type is more of the same for years to come.


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox (Mar 31, 2013)

BTW, masturbation <> porn. You could think of your wife, or others, you don't _have_ to use porn for visual stimulation.

Yeah, significant changes need to happen... on both of your sides. Good luck, sincerely.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

God, if I had a nickle for every multiple orgasming cold woman who hates sex on this board.... (mutters)

It sounds to me as if your wife is inflexible as to any path of change. You can desire change as much as you desire air but if she does not desire change there will be no change. With sexual abuse it seems more a matter of determination to overcome. When a person chooses to change that choice must daily. You cannot do it in her place.


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## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I don't think your situation is fixable. I think it's time that you just resign yourself to it being the way it is and learn to live with it. The main reason I don't think it's fixable is that it doesn't look like you've got it in you to do the hard work that it will take to fix it. It doesn't look like you're one of those guys who has it in him to rock the boat enough and destabilize the relationship. What you'll do is cherry pick the advise you receive, praise the easy stuff, ignore anything that makes you uncomfortable etc... We see that a lot here and the result with that personality type is more of the same for years to come.


I'm going to click that I like your post. I am increasingly of the belief that optimism is the only rational approach to life. Your post is so pessimistic: I don't like the pessimism, but I like how well you expressed the pessimistic point of view.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I'm optimistic when the situation warrants it. The future is bright for those who make their own destiny. But ya, I don't have much hope for the passengers of the world.


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## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I'm optimistic when the situation warrants it...


Optimism is the most helpful for me, when I can muster it, precisely when the situation doesn't warrant it.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

sniper said:


> A few reasons.
> 
> 1. I wanted to stop any thought of divorce talk before it started.



I'm a Christian also, although I don't share all the same views as you. I assuming you don't believe in divorce except in cases of adultery, and I respect that however. 

But that puts you in a tight situation because your wife has no reason to change anything because she knows you will never leave. 

Fortunately, you still have two options available to you. 

1. You may still be strongly against divorce, but she doesn't need to know that. Tell her you will have no choice but to divorce her unless she takes serious steps to fix her problem with sex. 

2. There may be an obligation to stay married, but *nowhere in the Bible is there an obligation to live under the same roof as your wife*. Tell her you took vows to live as husband and wife, not brother and sister, and you would rather live separately than live together in the mockery of a marriage you have now. That might get the ball rolling.

What is the goal here? You know your wife better than I do, but most likely the goal here is to get your wife to agree to therapy to get over whatever hangup she has about sex (whether its past abuse or whatever) and to start being honest, and stop using her various ailments as an excuse to avoid intimacy.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

sniper said:


> We do not believe it does... we just do not believe in the use of porn.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


wow... your story is so very similar to mine. 
my wife was raped at the age of eleven, and it has affected her in pretty much every area of her life. when we got married, we had only known each other for a few weeks, so we really didnt know each other at all. i had to learn, over time, all the implications that a sexual assault carries. whats worse, she was never allowed to be a child. she was always expected to take care of her six brothers, and she practically never got any praise for her efforts. she ended up feeling like she could never do good enough. later on in life, she was physically assaulted by a man she was engaged to. so, yea, she had a lot of issues opening up to me when we were first married, and for good reason.

she would have flashbacks during sex, she was usually sick with something or the other, and she whenever i brought up a concern of mine she would get incredibly defensive. it wasnt easy during that first year, let me tell you...

so, what i did was try to help her. the first thing i tried dealing with was trust. she couldnt trust me. when our daughter was born, she couldnt stand to leave me in the same room with her alone. she would often argue with me and storm out of the house, telling me that she was leaving and taking our daughter with her. so, one day, i told her that i want nothing more than to have an awesome relationship with her. i want to be the guy that fills her heart with butterflies, and i want her to be the thing that i look forward to at the end of every day.

the next time she threatened to leave, i told her that if she wants to come back home, she has to go for a walk with me through a swamp. in the middle of the night. she was deathly afraid of the unknown, the unseen, so in order to do this, she had to trust that i would bring her through it safely. the other option was her going back to her parents house, and we pretty much go our separate ways. she agreed to the walk. 

things got easier after that, but she still had a low self esteem. so, i started telling her how proud i was of her accomplishments, whenever she actually did something. i told her that i want her to do more, whatever she can, so that i have more reasons to be proud of her. she started cleaning the house more often, cooking dinner, etc. i truly was proud of how far she came, so i told her that whenever i could(which means, whenever she did anything to be proud about). 

we were still in a pretty much sexless marriage, but i was seeing my wife turn into a stronger person, so i kept at it. it really was fulfilling to see her blossom, which i knew was in part due to my own behavior, how i treated her. 

sex was the last hurdle we overcame. as it turned out, she actually wanted it far more than i thought she did, she just never said it to me. maybe she was shy, who knows. what i do know is that i was also quite shy about approaching her about it. so, i started drinking. a little, i very rarely get actually drunk, but i started drinking just enough to end the anxiety. i know, as a christian, you might be opposed to that idea, but think of it this way: in first timothy, we are given leeway to drink a little wine for our stomach's sake and for frequent illness. well, my illness was anxiety and it was keeping me away from a fulfilling relationship with my wife. so, i drank a little. i WANTED the best relationship possible with my wife, i WANTED a good sex life, to leave my wife satisfied. so, i drank a little wine and acted exactly like the kind of guy i wanted to act like, and i payed attention to the things that turned my wife on. it worked. it allowed me to drop the anxiety long enough to be the kind of guy i knew my wife wanted. eventually, it just became a habit to be that guy, so i really dont even need the alcohol anymore. lately, we have sex at least a few times a week... but its really whenever we are in the mood. neither of us think about it too much since we both get it when we want it.

my wife eventually started drinking a little with me as well. over the course of things, i was able to help her overcome most of her own issues, which helped me overcome my issues. and i thank GOD for that. we are supposed to be the spiritual leaders of the household, so thats our job, as husbands. if something isnt right, its our responsibility to find a way to make it right. 

so, thats how i made things better. the fact that you are looking for help shows that you are already on that road. even if it is incredibly tough, you CAN change things.
you are given that power. 
its always a work in progress.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Theseus said:


> I'm a Christian also, although I don't share all the same views as you. I assuming you don't believe in divorce except in cases of adultery, and I respect that however.
> 
> But that puts you in a tight situation because your wife has no reason to change anything because she knows you will never leave.
> 
> ...



i have to disagree. my attitude, when it comes to marriage problems, is to take a shot of whisky and say "f#$k it, well figure it out".
and then we do.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

As'laDain said:


> i have to disagree. my attitude, when it comes to marriage problems, is to take a shot of whisky and say "f#$k it, well figure it out".
> and then we do.


I have a feeling the OP already tried that one before resorting to bringing his problems to this forum. I do like some of the ways you handled your own problem though.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

I'm having a tough time with this religion stuff.

One of the ten commandments is 'Thou shalt not steal'...so if someone (a Christian) has no money, no where to live and hasn't eaten for days and is starving, he should not, under any circumstances 'steal' a loaf of bread to satisfy his hunger?
Would God regard him as a thief?
Hunger kills. Would God rather we threw away the gift of life to keep to the ten commandments than break one and live?

Religion can be a wonderful thing; gives people a purpose in life, something to live for....but it seems that if it is taken too seriously it can actually have a detrimental effect on peoples lives.

People would rather stay in a sexless and unhappy marriage because divorce is 'wrong'. 

Ask God...would you rather your flok be happy in marriage or miserable?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Yes on all points. 


UOTE=WorkingOnMe;5889498]I don't think your situation is fixable. I think it's time that you just resign yourself to it being the way it is and learn to live with it. The main reason I don't think it's fixable is that it doesn't look like you've got it in you to do the hard work that it will take to fix it. It doesn't look like you're one of those guys who has it in him to rock the boat enough and destabilize the relationship. What you'll do is cherry pick the advise you receive, praise the easy stuff, ignore anything that makes you uncomfortable etc... We see that a lot here and the result with that personality type is more of the same for years to come.[/QUOTE]


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Theseus said:


> I'm a Christian also, although I don't share all the same views as you. I assuming you don't believe in divorce except in cases of adultery, and I respect that however.
> 
> But that puts you in a tight situation because your wife has no reason to change anything because she knows you will never leave.
> 
> ...


I have heard the viewpoint that divorce is allowed for sexual immorality in general, not just adultery. And, certainly, sexual refusal qualifies as sexual immorality. The rules are that you must provide for your spouse's sexual satisfaction, not that you must not have sex with anyone who is not your spouse.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> God, if I had a nickle for every multiple orgasming cold woman who hates sex on this board.... (mutters)
> 
> .


I couldn't agree more. I just can't see a woman who enjoys sex and has multiple orgasms to get out of bed and say "gee honey, that was awesome, let's do it again next year?" If you have an awesome experience, you want to have it again, and again, and again...


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

sniper said:


> We do not believe it does... we just do not believe in the use of porn.
> 
> To be honest the first few months were "ok". We may have had sex once or twice a week if I begged for it. But there was a lot of problems. She would tell me I was wanting it too much. Also she told me she did not like sex.
> 
> ...


You've gotten good advice so far. I wanted to share my thoughts since your situation has similaries to where I once was.

First, it's important to note that your overarching problem here is that you are "unequally yoked" with your wife. You are leading with your Christian principles. Your wife, however, is defining the issue narrowly (and selfishly) and dealing with it pragmatically and not as a Christian. To her, it is this simple:

_Problem: I like the comforts of marriage but dislike sex.
Solution: I will avoid sex as much as possible._

She could have defined the problem as "I like my marriage but cannot meet my husband's need / my responsibility to my husband". Or she could have vowed to resolve this in a Christian manner. Instead, she chose the easiest way out possible. Not only is she violating Christian principles, but she is at enmity with them for doing so knowingly and continually. *It's critical you understand this when dealing with this issue.*

Now, it's gotten to the point where she is lying to you to have her way. She tells you that you want sex too much, when in fact you don't (objectively) and it's not her place to decide. She's setting you up for an argument that you should be happy with what you get, so the problem is yours and not hers.

And, she tells you that she won't go to couseling because she's over her issues. That's another lie. She simply is sweeping them under the rug.

My ex had CSA issues, and pulled this B.S. on me. She took it a step further and defamed me to others (telling my family, her friends, and our pastors that I harassed and abused her) to pressure me to stop making sex an issue. I also was loathe to leave (I had a special needs child and could not risk not having daily access to him). It took a while to figure out how and have the opportunity to resolve this issue constructively. With hindsight, this is how I recommend you handle this issue:

1) Let me know that you intend to restore your marriage to the way it was meant to be. Then insist she consult with your church leaders, her (medical) doctor, and a mental-health expert and do what it takes to understand her responsibility to you and get healthy enough to be able to meet it.

2) Follow the steps outlined in Matthew 18. Depending on how much she respects your church elders, it might work (and if it doesn't you'll see what I mean about being "unequally yoked"). If your church won't support you in this, find a better one.

3) I noted earlier that one could argue your wife's sexual refusal is grounds for divorce. If you are uncomfortable with mentioning the possibility of leaving the marriage, then you should refuse to let her continue ignoring her responsibility. Keep initiating sex and remind her that you are unsatisfied with the marriage, and it is her fault.

Along with that, pull back some and simply be less available for her. Let her experience what it's like to be disregarded. What will happen is that she will have to make a decision. She will either get it together and get some help, or she will decide that you are not worth her effort to get healthy and she'd rather leave than be a good wife to you.

That would be painful to experience for sure, but you will be better off in the long run. Trust me on that.

You (both) might consider trying www.themarriagebed.com for a pro-Christian but decidedly sex-positive view of marriage.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Sorry Sniper, i'm a little confused. It looks like the situation started with your wife not wanting sex but you did. Now it looks almost as if the situation is reversed and she's wanting to relight things, but you don't (gun-shy, or the desire is just gone?). I guess what I would want to know is: Do you want your sex life back with your wife or are you more wondering why you don't feel sexual toward HER anymore? If you do want it back, and she's expressing interest in getting it back again, you'll need to work past your resentment before you can work on it with her. Easier said than done, I know.

It also sounds like she's going to need to make an effort to get past whatever baggage she's carrying with regards to sex. IF she truly wants to get the intimacy back, she needs to get some professional help. I know you said she's been in and out of counseling for years and feels like she's done with it, but I'm imagining that was primarily individual counseling with regards to the sexual assault. I'd suggest couple's counseling to focus on your relationship instead--maybe she'd be more agreeable to it if she feels like it's not just going to be picking old scabs.

**Edit**

Also, you said your wife said she wants to try to have sex soon. Did she initiate this, or was this a response to your intiation?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> I couldn't agree more. I just can't see a woman who enjoys sex and has multiple orgasms to get out of bed and say "gee honey, that was awesome, let's do it again next year?" If you have an awesome experience, you want to have it again, and again, and again...


Oooh, you might back that train up a bit. It is a very real phenomenon that people enjoy the physical act in the moment and then feel shame and disgust afterwards. I've seen it personally. What if she likes the physical sensation during loathes herself afterwards (and likewise can't bring herself to do for him)?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

DTO said:


> Oooh, you might back that train up a bit. It is a very real phenomenon that people enjoy the physical act in the moment and then feel shame and disgust afterwards. I've seen it personally. What if she likes the physical sensation during loathes herself afterwards (and likewise can't bring herself to do for him)?



I guess that is possible. But from my own experience shame and self,loathing inhibited any sexual response, so there was nothing to enjoy. Once I started to enjoy it, I started to learn to be okay with it.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

DTO, it seems to me that a CSA who DOES enjoy sex but avoids it due to shame and self recrimination afterward would be more available to healing. If that is what is happening, talking and processing openly after an enjoyable sex session, then again the next morning, would go further in promoting a positive view of sex...?


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

Please describe a typical rejection scenario... what did you do to initiate and how does she reject you? It matters.


Generic advice: Numero Uno... do not ever, ever beg or hound for sex. What you've really done is establish sex as a thing you're effectively taking from her rather than an intimate thing shared. Its horribly unattractive, and I imagine that in the context of a woman having been sexually assaulted, your "hounding" is practically more assault... more reason for her to think she is just a hole to stick it in. More reason to feel violated as a person, even if she feels emotionally secure with you outside of a sexual context.

Don't beg, don't ask. Entice. Seduce.

Rather than asking her permission, induce her to respond. Show affection and intimacy, hold that kiss longer... play with her hair... touch her in loving ways rather than overtly sexual ways, and dial it up more slowly before sliding a hand into her pants.

In initiating, don't talk about it, just do it... and be slow (excruciatingly slow for many guys lol). You need to make her feel your connection to her, not your want of sex.

Go into this accepting that you may only be intimate and don't allow that to frustrate you. When a woman thinks you're trying to get sex from her, as if its just this thing to be taken from her, she's far less inclined to want to have sex.

Also, communicating is nice... but how you communicate is critical. Don't say "I wish you would do x", or "it hurts me that y", or anything else that will indicate that you're dissatisfied with what she *does* do. Encourage, encourage, encourage. If you want her to expand, you HAVE to stay positive. I love when you do x. I think its so sexy when you do y. I was daydreaming of you doing z to me... it was great." And no matter what she does, or even if she doesn't do it enough, you should still say you loved it rather than saying you wanted more. Part of your problem might be that she doesn't think she measures up... and getting past something like that takes baby steps imo.

Give it time. But if that fails... rocking the boat is your last option. "I won't live a sexless life." -and doing what it takes.


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## bravenewworld (Mar 24, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Don't beg, don't ask. Entice. Seduce.


Female perspective - the above x1000. Really pay attention to her nonverbal responses.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

DTO said:


> I have heard the viewpoint that divorce is allowed for sexual immorality in general, not just adultery. And, certainly, sexual refusal qualifies as sexual immorality. The rules are that you must provide for your spouse's sexual satisfaction, not that you must not have sex with anyone who is not your spouse.



Well, sort of. In Matthew 5:31-32, Jesus allows for divorce only in cases of "unchastity" or "sexual immorality" (based on the translation). Most people believe he's referring to adultery. But I think it's a stretch to claim that it includes sexual refusal.

But I do believe that sex is universally understood as a given in a marriage, and if someone really wants a sexless marriage, he/she needs to be clear about that from the very beginning. 

If your religion prohibits you from divorce, you can at least move out. Nothing is stopping you from doing that.


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## sniper (Dec 5, 2013)

As'laDain said:


> wow... your story is so very similar to mine.


Wow, as you told your story so much of it that I didn't even bring up was the same. I really want to thank you for this advice you have given.



> so, what i did was try to help her. the first thing i tried dealing with was trust. she couldnt trust me.


This is something I think we have worked on very much. I believe she trusts me now more than ever. I have proved myself to her through being there for her through a lot. 

BUT...I believe the area of sex could use more work in trust. She knows I will protect her in everything else...I think she just needs to learn to trust me in this area too.

I will have to find ways to help her with this. But first I think the other things you talked about need to be done.



> things got easier after that, but she still had a low self esteem.


This is huge. I have always tried my best to build her up. Maybe I haven't done it very well. I am going to try to learn how to help her in this.



> over the course of things, i was able to help her overcome most of her own issues, which helped me overcome my issues. and i thank GOD for that. we are supposed to be the spiritual leaders of the household, so thats our job, as husbands. if something isnt right, its our responsibility to find a way to make it right.


I really liked what you had to say. I truly believe in being the spiritual leader and loving my wife like God loves the church. 

For those who wonder why being a Christian and no divorce plays into this I only have to say that it is what God does with His people. They have hang ups and yet He is always there with love and trying to make things better. If He gave His life for us...I see no reason I can not give my own wife my devotion.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

sniper said:


> I need help. My wife and I are Christians by the way.
> 
> We seem to be in a sexless marriage. There is a lot of history here but I want to give you the info to get the help we need.
> 
> ...


Slick, if you are a christian then you know full and well your wife is making plenty of unchristian choices. Why haven't you two gone to counseling? Your marriage sounds broken to me!!


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

sniper said:


> I need help. My wife and I are Christians by the way.
> 
> We seem to be in a sexless marriage. There is a lot of history here but I want to give you the info to get the help we need.
> 
> ...


what are the consequences she has faced for not being a good wife? Let me guess...she gets everything SHE wants out of the marriage.
Listen..if I was to be totally honest, I would tell you to ditch the life that sucks and go find one that is worthwhile. No sex, a wife that is not concerned with your needs is not a way to live your life. You have to live the life you get to live for you and you are allowing her to decide how happy you can be. She needs to be held accountable for being a bad wife.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Theseus said:


> But I think it's a stretch to claim that it includes sexual refusal.


I am curious as to how you reach that conclusion. The Bible clearly states that sex is a must in marriage. The passage starts with "do not deprive" while the prohibition against adultery starts with "thou shall not" if I remember correctly.

When you say adultery is divorceable but sexual refusal is not, you are essentially saying sexual refusal is a less serious offense. The way I see it, both are clearly commands worded similarly strongly and not optional preferences or suggestions. Thus, a contention that adultery is a "worse" sin is unsupported IMO.

ETA:

Another argument against your viewpoint is that, further in that same chapter, there is an admonition to refrain from sex only by mutual consent and then only for a limited time.

I agree that your view is the more common one, and I can see why. There seems to be significant sexual negativity in the church (even though it's not supported Biblically). For someone not desiring much sex, mandatory fidelity confers a benefit ("you owe me your faithfulness") while mandatory sexual provision confers an unwanted duty; people can endlessly rationalize or deny something not in line with their personal wants and needs. 

Also, adultery is concrete; you either are or are not faithful. But, sexual satisfaction is personally defined. With a given level of sexual output, you can be meeting the need of one person yet sinning against another. A person desiring less sex can rationalize "your sex drive is excessive" or "I'm happy so you should be too", forgetting the relevant standard (the wording means providing such that your partner is not tempted to stray).


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

sniper said:


> For those who wonder why being a Christian and no divorce plays into this I only have to say that it is what God does with His people. They have hang ups and yet He is always there with love and trying to make things better. If He gave His life for us...I see no reason I can not give my own wife my devotion.


Now, I don't claim to be the world's best or most observant Christian - not by a long shot. But, I think you are missing something in your rationale.

I do agree that He gave his life for us and is always there for us. But, He says throughout the N.T. He will separate Himself from us if we don't acknowledge his supremacy and we will not benefit optimally if we do not live according to Biblical principles. And he repeatedly rebukes those who don't act accordingly.

Similarly, the proper Godly example is to _not_ tolerate poor treatment from your spouse (sexually or otherwise) while remaining ready to forgive and move forward once behavior improves. Saying that "I'm supposed to love my wife like God loves the church" and using that to tolerate anything misses the mark (besides being unfair to you).


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> DTO, it seems to me that a CSA who DOES enjoy sex but avoids it due to shame and self recrimination afterward would be more available to healing. If that is what is happening, talking and processing openly after an enjoyable sex session, then again the next morning, would go further in promoting a positive view of sex...?


Hi Anon,

To be honest, what you are saying makes perfect sense and if I were an outsider without personal experience in the matter I would agree. But, having BTDT with my ex I can tell you it's just not that simple (at least for some people).

I am not a therapist so I cannot explain fully the processes in play. But, I saw the shame aspect so override the physical pleasure and connection that healing could not happen (at least not without professional help). However, I'll caveat that by saying her shame probably had some roots in CSA (and not just bad teaching and role models). I've observed (and heard from others) that CSA victim's tolerance for sex decreases over time. 

Here's an analogy. I saw my son's cancer treatments. If you know someone who has or had cancer, you may know how the toll treatment takes. The body takes longer and longer to recover from the same level of medication. You get more sick, you might have to wait longer for your next treatment, etc. _That is exactly how my ex's reaction to sex was like._


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Interesting with the cancer analogy. I just have a hard time believing I am THAT much of an outlier. But I certainly do exemplify the pendulum effect. I've gone from one extreme to the other with regard to sex and sex attitudes. I am okay with being the over sexed hyper horny woman, much much more so than with being the frigid, uptight and cold woman I used to be. In fact, if I had to take a medication that killed my sex drive or ability to orgasm in order to live pain free, I'd take the pain.

I had cancer. Spent about 12 weeks on heavy narcotics. What motivated me to get off the narcotics was that I could not orgasm! I was complaining to a friend who is a nurse that there was something wrong with me, I couldn't orgasm any more. She laughed and said the drugs were doing that. Stopped taking them the next day! So I get both sides, but just don't get how anyone could decide they'd rather be sexless than doing the work to be fully sexual.

I have to admit that when I do take narcotics for pain now, as soon as it kicks in I really really want sex. Not having any pain and feeling relaxed is like the biggest aphrodisiac there is!

I hope your sons treatments were successful and he is healthy now!


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

sniper said:


> Wow, as you told your story so much of it that I didn't even bring up was the same. I really want to thank you for this advice you have given.
> 
> 
> This is something I think we have worked on very much. I believe she trusts me now more than ever. I have proved myself to her through being there for her through a lot.
> ...


changing the way people think is a long drawn out process. think of it like this: it took me 20 years to learn how to become anxious in social settings. getting used to feeling empowered instead is going to take quite a while too. 
it took me four years.


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