# I need help...



## GuDe

EDIT: This may need to be moved elsewhere. Feel free to put it where it it belongs. I don't mind.

A couple quick things. 1) I was not married. I was engaged for two years, was probably tying the knot in March 2012... 2) This is gonna be long...but I'll _try_ to keep it short

Ok, where do I start. I need help.

My ex-fiancee and I fell in love almost instnatly. We got together in December 2009, and in March 2010 (we were both 20), I proposed. She said yes, and everything was great for two years. There was never any question of our commitment or love for each other. We never fought. We were best friends. Other couples were envious of how good we were.

We were massively supportive of each other, as couples should be. She had some self-conscious issues (jaw droppingly beautiful, but thought she was not), which I helped her with and she supported me through school (financially but also mentally/emotionally, as I have a temper sometimes...never directed it at her though)..

As I said, things were really, really good between us. We were part of each other's families. I was a son to her's, she was a daughter to mine. I was there when her sister's son was born.

From the time we met, and later fell in love, we had a feeling...like we had known each other in a past life. Or maybe some force (God or something bigger than us) brought us together. We felt like we had known each other for decades. There's various other instances of like...fate and stuff that enforced our belief in our love and relationship. We took pride in the fact that we were mature in our love. People our age are obsessed with drama, cheating and just a bunch of BS, and we weren't like that.

We were planning on marriage after college and all that. Then buy a house. Even planned out and talked about our future kids. Even named them.

Everything was amazing (literally) until November 2011. Things got bumpy. It started when she started going out more. You know, girls nights, whatever. I had guys nights, and knew I could trust her, so it was no biggie. Until it started becoming more frequent. Things started getting bumpier and bumpier as time went, but it was still fixable. She started staying with her sister more often. First it was once every couple weeks. Then every week. Then 3 times a week. She wasn't even home on new years. And then she stopped calling or telling me where she was. Now, I know how this looks, but she was not cheating. I won't go into it, but I know she never did anything with anyone.

It all hit critical mass in January 2012. I just couldn't take anymore, and it just came out that she didn't want to be with me anymore...she wanted to be with her friends. I'm a homebody kind of guy. She was that kind of girl, until this point.

She didn't fully leave though. It was really hard on her (though not as bad as it was for me), and she stuck around. It was a very, very weird limbo. She wasn't my fiancee anymore (took her forever to work up the nerve to take the ring off), but we still hung out, said we loved each other, shared a bed, kissed (not sexually, just on the hand or forehead)...

In April, I'd had enough. I moved all of her stuff out, and said I could do it. She told me she understood but begged me not to forget about her and not to be gone forever. She said she "wanted me in her future, but she can't predict anything" and told me not to wait for her.

Shortly after, she has someone new (I wasn't surprised) and I went ballistic. She said she was just going through a "different phase of life" but wants to be my friend, in my life, blah blah, whatever.

Well, after we tied up loose financial ends, we went no contact, in June. In September, she broke it, saying she missed our apartment, and our fun times together. We talked and that was it until early October where she called again, but I kinda blew up at her ("you have a boyfriend, you can't just come in and out of my life when you want"), but I was REALLY harsh about it...we patched things up. Since then she's initiated contact with me probably every week or so. My birthday and stuff. 

Things were going pretty well. We were communicating again, and it felt good. Against my better judgment I invited her out to a halloween party with some mutual friends (not as a date or anything though). She asked me if her boyfriend could come...great right? Before I could respond, she said it'd probably be weird, and said she didn't wanna go.

She's texted me once or twice since then...

I'm just wondering what I should do. It's been almost 10 months since she called it off. I want her back...

But I also realize she is not in the position to do that. I don't know how she feels about me, but one thing is certain...at this point in time, she's with someone else, and I'm not a priority. What's in her head or heart regarding me is irrelevant, because in reality she's with someone else, and I get it. I'm not gonna break them up or interfere with it either. It's an obvious rebound and all that will run it's course.

What I need help with is, what should I do now? I want to be back with her, but I'm unsure how to disconnect myself from this without ruining and/or sabotaging myself? People have told me I just need to disconnect, and go full No Contact...thing is, if I start ignoring her, she'd see it as me being upset at her, and not wanting to talk to her.

I don't know, I just don't know what to say to her to express that I want her back, but at the same time am willing to let her go. We both have changes to make, and I see that, but the thing is, I want us to be together in the end...and I'm afraid that if I do or say soemthing wrong, all chances of that will be extinct.

I want to just tell her "Look, I'm not interested in being your friend or in your life while you're seeing someone else. Maybe if you were single we could be friends, and maybe see what happens from there, but right now we need to be apart". But I've been told this comes off as needy.

I just don't know what to do. I want to express that we can't be friends (too much history, and she's with someone else), but I also want to convey that someday, if she's willing to work at it, we can try again. That I'm not bitter or angry (I've forgiven her and understand things), and the door is always open. Again, I've been told that this will make me look bad/needy and will be bringing up the relationship, which evidently is a no-no...

I've been given lots of advice, online, and in person. But the online advice I've received...the people giving advice don't seem to..."get it" I guess. I've browsed this forum, and people here don't seem so cynical. They seem wiser...they seem to believe more in REAL love.

I understand the need to work on yourself, and I have...but you know...you can work on yourself till the cows come home, but no matter how happy you are (I'm happy. I have incredible friends, and have focused on my career and art, etc), people still crave and even need companionship and relationships.

So please, I'm turning to you people to help a heartbroken guy figure out how to make heads and tales of his broken heart, and a situation involving someone he loves.


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## MSC71

She decided she didn't want the same future as you did. It sucks. But you can't do anything about it. She may or may not have cheated but I would bet money she met someone, most likely her boyfriend after you broke up. You basically said the door is open so you will end up letting her dictate your life and future. Only thing to do is move on. Don't talk to her. No need to let her know you can't be friends either. No need to tell her you are moving on either. Just do it.


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## GuDe

MSC71 said:


> She decided she didn't want the same future as you did.


So, why lie to me for 2 years about it?

Why bother at all? 

How do you suppose I (or anyone actually) move on when you love someone?

Side note: I am not letting her dictate my life. She has not even been a part of my life for 10 months now.


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## GuDe

Anyone with an optimistic point of view, or from those who have managed to fix and/or work on things with their former partners?


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## MSC71

GuDe said:


> So, why lie to me for 2 years about it?
> 
> Why bother at all?
> 
> How do you suppose I (or anyone actually) move on when you love someone?
> 
> Side note: I am not letting her dictate my life. She has not even been a part of my life for 10 months now.


Yeah it sucks. Not sure why she lied about it. I'm just saying that she chose to leave and it sucks. Often the person left has so many questions.


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## wtf2012

I don't think she lied about it. She probably consciously wanted to want marry you, but subconsciously didn't really want that. It probably took her two years to figure out that she had major doubts. You both are young. Being heartbroken sucks...I know I'm on my third round.

This is probably really hard on her too because you are a great dude. She knows this, and she knows what great things she is walking away from. But unfortunately, you are probably not right for her in her mind. Alot of women tend go with what they feel. This has lead to many train wrecks in my life, but often it was for the best. She is probably making all this way too complicated, and she probably has a hard time showing real love and trust, despite what the two years have been. Accepting the cognitive dissonance of how they have acted before to how they act now is always the hardest part for me. 

Here is what you need to do to. Find someone else. I have found the best way to do that is focus on what makes you happy and don't worry about finding someone else. By being passionate and confident in your life and open (but not needy) to new possibilities is way attractive to women. Live your life to the fullest and it will work itself out. 

Plus you need to go absolutely no contact for 6 months to a year just to get over the "in love" feelings. I have found it absolutely necessary for this to occur. In my first round of heartbreak I went no contact for a year, then she wanted to get back together. We fooled around long enough for me to realize she was an emotional wreck.

Your EX-fiance sounds like she has alot of growing to due. Sounds like you should be enjoying your youth more. I know it doesn't seem like it now, but this relationship was probably good for you in the long run. But it is over now. Learn what you can about yourself and relationships while you are moving on. Come to accept you will not be together in the future, but keep a soft spot in your heart for her as she was a major part of your life and who you are becoming.

"Real" love can happen with many different people. I have experienced "real" love 3 different times, but none have "worked out" because life is not a fairy tale with unicorns and rainbows and happy everly after endings. Because relationships don't work out, it doesn't make the love you experienced any less "real." It is a hard concept, but you will see what I mean after the next time you fall in love.

Finally, this sucks and it is hard. It takes time. But people do it everyday. Pain is part of love, and it wouldn't be so awesome if there wasn't also some pain. I feel for you because I have been where are now. It does get better...but only after acceptance.


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## GuDe

wtf2012 said:


> I don't think she lied about it. She probably consciously wanted to want marry you, but subconsciously didn't really want that. It probably took her two years to figure out that she had major doubts. You both are young. Being heartbroken sucks...I know I'm on my third round.
> 
> This is probably really hard on her too because you are a great dude. She knows this, and she knows what great things she is walking away from. But unfortunately, you are probably not right for her in her mind. Alot of women tend go with what they feel. This has lead to many train wrecks in my life, but often it was for the best. She is probably making all this way too complicated, and she probably has a hard time showing real love and trust, despite what the two years have been. Accepting the cognitive dissonance of how they have acted before to how they act now is always the hardest part for me.
> 
> Here is what you need to do to. Find someone else. I have found the best way to do that is focus on what makes you happy and don't worry about finding someone else. By being passionate and confident in your life and open (but not needy) to new possibilities is way attractive to women. Live your life to the fullest and it will work itself out.
> 
> Plus you need to go absolutely no contact for 6 months to a year just to get over the "in love" feelings. I have found it absolutely necessary for this to occur. In my first round of heartbreak I went no contact for a year, then she wanted to get back together. We fooled around long enough for me to realize she was an emotional wreck.
> 
> Your EX-fiance sounds like she has alot of growing to due. Sounds like you should be enjoying your youth more. I know it doesn't seem like it now, but this relationship was probably good for you in the long run. But it is over now. Learn what you can about yourself and relationships while you are moving on. Come to accept you will not be together in the future, but keep a soft spot in your heart for her as she was a major part of your life and who you are becoming.
> 
> "Real" love can happen with many different people. I have experienced "real" love 3 different times, but none have "worked out" because life is not a fairy tale with unicorns and rainbows and happy everly after endings. Because relationships don't work out, it doesn't make the love you experienced any less "real." It is a hard concept, but you will see what I mean after the next time you fall in love.
> 
> Finally, this sucks and it is hard. It takes time. But people do it everyday. Pain is part of love, and it wouldn't be so awesome if there wasn't also some pain. I feel for you because I have been where are now. It does get better...but only after acceptance.


1st off, I want to say thanks for the reply. It was thought out, and well written, which is something that's usually missing in advice I receive.

As you said, the cognitive dissonance is the hardest part. Like you also said, she probably has issues trusting and stuff. I can't imagine why (she didn't have a terrible upbringing or anything). The thing is, I feel like when you love someone, you can change that in them, you know? One thing I know for certain is she doesn't think very highly of herself. I just know this based on the people she knew and associated with before me, and who she's with now. I know because I've had to hold her through emotional breakdowns about her appearance (which didn't make any sense).

It's fairly obvious to me (and it may be delusion) that the type of people she's hanging out with and evidently dating now, are an attempt to fill a void. The OM is 30...we're 22...not a huge age gap, but still...it's clear to me she's associating herself with this crowd to try to find things out and maybe find acceptance? IDK, it's hard to explain, and I probably sound crazy...

I just thought I'd be able to show her she deserves to be treated like the incredible person she is (was). Her past relationship before me was filled with emotional disrespect, and I really thought my love for her could show her she deserved respect for who she is, not just because she's a pretty face. She was an artist, singer and writer (AKA my dream woman), and she was smart as hell, and my goal (because I knew about her self-esteem issues) was to show her that I respected and loved those things about her.

And I guess it wasn't enough. I know that I gave her the best, and I know that I was the only guy (hell only person) who respected her for HER, you know?

I get she has growing to do. I realize, I, emotionally, am very mature. Even though I'm young, I've never been the go-out-pick-up-random-girls type of guy. Real, lasting, emotional relationships have always been my goal in the back of my mind.

She had a somewhat over-protective childhood. I'm a patient man, and I can read people. I know that she needs to "Find herself" and just figure like out. She hasn't even REALLY been single since high school, now that I think about it. 

I get she needs to figure life out, meet people...get her heartbroken I suppose. I just want to be with her after all that. Because there will come a point when the maturity and reality hit her. She'll realize love is important in life, not parties, not superficial good time friends. And when she becomes that person I wish I could be there.

I kinda wish I'd met her years later. After all this stupid college-age bull**** is over with. After she had lived that life and was looking for someone to settle down with. Because that's what I want.

It's all just so difficult, because I know she can be everything I want her to be. I've seen and experienced it. The two years I was with her were incredible, and she was exactly what I wanted. It's soooo hard when they are the person you want, they just won't admit it to themselves, and it's buried. I wish I could just grab her, and say "This isn't you. You're better than this and you know it. You're smart, you're beautiful, you're brilliant, you deserve so much better than the life you're making for yourself. You could have the universe on a platter, just embrace it".

That's what makes the NC so hard. Because there is hope, because I know she can be the kind of woman I want. I mean, I've had relationships with girls that were so EASY to get over, because when it was over, it was obvious they weren't right for me. We didn't have much in common, they weren't very bright, or whatever. That isn't the case with her. 

I wish there was a way to convey to her that I understand it's a phase, and when she becomes herself again we can be in each other's lives again.


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## wtf2012

GuDe,

I want to point out some things in your post. I am not trying to be harsh but I think you are lying/in denial of a few things...so tough love okay.

She does not want to be with you. She will probably never want to be with you in the way you want to be with her. I'm really sorry.

You are suffering from "oneitis." It is hard and I suffer from it too, but I have the advantage of having been in love a few more times. So I know there are other people out there. Not better, different. You will find someone that you will love in a different way which will be more fulfilling than this relationship.

From what you describe she is immature. It does not feel like it, but she is doing you a major favor by not continuing to make future plans with you. It sounds like you want to have a very mature emotional relationship with plans for marriage and kids. It would have been a travesty if she went along with what you want when she is not mature enough to really commit to the life you were planning. Think about how hard splitting will be when you have kids, a mortgage, financial dependency, etc. It sucks bad (this is currently where I am at). 

You cannot change someone. Your love cannot change someone. You will destroy yourself if believe this. You can help people change, but only if they want to change. You are a rescuer (me too). You need to look at how you view love, because this may end up being a cycle for you. If someone loves you, it is not the same as someone depending on you. You really need to examine what you think is a healthy relationship. Maybe check out some codependent literature.

If you ever want a second chance with her, trust me you have to go no contact. The more you talk to her like you know it is a phase, the more it will seem like you are talking down to her. Right now she wants to be young. She is young. She will make mistakes. You will too. She will never want to be with you if you are holding a flame for her. She will never see you like that again until you get back out there and move on with your life. You should also read some evolutionary pysch/pick up artist stuff for perspective. I do not believe in that stuff from a moral perspective, but from a what women are attracted to perspective it has many insightful ideas. Right now you look like a super nice guy (what women say they want to settle down with). But who is she with?

I think by the time she is out of her "phase" you will not want to be with her. She is going to make alot of mistakes. Hopefully, you will have let yourself move on and found love with someone else. 

People with low self esteem...it will never be enough. Other people can never fill the hole in other people's hearts and souls. No matter what you do it will never be enough until she matures emotionally and can fill it herself.

Finally, she is trying to tell you with her actions that she was not really the person you thought she was. She may have wanted to be that person, but she wasn't. She probably tried to be that person, but wasn't happy changing herself for you. If you really love her, then set her free. Let her live her life, but don't stop living your life. Nothing you can do right now will make her come around. So stop trying. Instead live your life...maybe she will come around when she sees you being confident, happy, with someone else.


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## GuDe

wtf2012 said:


> GuDe,
> 
> I want to point out some things in your post. I am not trying to be harsh but I think you are lying/in denial of a few things...so tough love okay.
> 
> She does not want to be with you. She will probably never want to be with you in the way you want to be with her. I'm really sorry.


I know she doesn't want to be with me already. I know she may be gone for good. But I know she may not be gone for good as well.



> You are suffering from "oneitis." It is hard and I suffer from it too, but I have the advantage of having been in love a few more times. So I know there are other people out there. Not better, different. You will find someone that you will love in a different way which will be more fulfilling than this relationship.


Yeah, I know first hand there are "plenty of fish in the sea", but you know, I haven't met any that are really worth my time (too consumed with playing games, drama, etc)



> From what you describe she is immature. It does not feel like it, but she is doing you a major favor by not continuing to make future plans with you. It sounds like you want to have a very mature emotional relationship with plans for marriage and kids. It would have been a travesty if she went along with what you want when she is not mature enough to really commit to the life you were planning. Think about how hard splitting will be when you have kids, a mortgage, financial dependency, etc. It sucks bad (this is currently where I am at).


I know she's immature. And we're at different levels as far as maturity, and therefore, aren't a good match anymore. The problem I have is that she USED TO be. :/ In ways, I am thankful this happened before kids, and a house, etc.



> You cannot change someone. Your love cannot change someone. You will destroy yourself if believe this. You can help people change, but only if they want to change. You are a rescuer (me too). You need to look at how you view love, because this may end up being a cycle for you. If someone loves you, it is not the same as someone depending on you. You really need to examine what you think is a healthy relationship. Maybe check out some codependent literature.


I know you can't change someone. That's one of the (many) lessons I've learned from this whole ordeal. Only they can change themselves, I realize that.

I don't think my perception of love is skewed. IMO, when it's committed relationship, both people should be just that. Committed to each other. You know, the kind of stuff that are in wedding vows.



> If you ever want a second chance with her, trust me you have to go no contact. The more you talk to her like you know it is a phase, the more it will seem like you are talking down to her. Right now she wants to be young. She is young. She will make mistakes. You will too. She will never want to be with you if you are holding a flame for her. She will never see you like that again until you get back out there and move on with your life. You should also read some evolutionary pysch/pick up artist stuff for perspective. I do not believe in that stuff from a moral perspective, but from a what women are attracted to perspective it has many insightful ideas. Right now you look like a super nice guy (what women say they want to settle down with). But who is she with?


I know I have to go no contact with her. It's just...thanksgiving is around the corner. What if she texts me then? Just ignore it?

I have moved on with my life (improved career, schooling, etc)...

I'm not saying it's a phase because I'm talking down or marginalizing her. I know it's a phase because I went through it. All my friends went through it. Difference is, we went through it in our teens. She didn't have freedom as a teenager, so she's doing it now. The drinking. The weak, throw-away relationships. I know it because I've done it all. 

She has done a total 180, has become financially unstable, hanging with the kinds of people she used to despise, dating someone several years older than her, hanging out at bars...she isn't even a girl I recognize anymore.



> I think by the time she is out of her "phase" you will not want to be with her. She is going to make alot of mistakes. Hopefully, you will have let yourself move on and found love with someone else.


Possibly.



> People with low self esteem...it will never be enough. Other people can never fill the hole in other people's hearts and souls. No matter what you do it will never be enough until she matures emotionally and can fill it herself.


I know. I feel like when the maturity hits her, we can bth work together to try again....if the conditions are right.



> Finally, she is trying to tell you with her actions that she was not really the person you thought she was. She may have wanted to be that person, but she wasn't. She probably tried to be that person, but wasn't happy changing herself for you. If you really love her, then set her free. Let her live her life, but don't stop living your life. Nothing you can do right now will make her come around. So stop trying. Instead live your life...maybe she will come around when she sees you being confident, happy, with someone else.


So you're saying THIS is the real her? This is who she really is? I mean either the her I knew was the real her, or the person she is now is.

She never tried to change for me. She was always herself, I was myself. There were no acts or charades. This shift in her personality or whatever, was SO unpredictable...I never saw any evidence that this kind of stuff was even inside her. If it was, I would have steered WAY clear of her. I know I need to let her go, I just don't want it to be for the rest of my life.


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## Hermes

Go pick up No More Mister Nice Guy. Also, Married Mans Sex Primer. Latly, get Codependent no more. 

You are a VERY good guy. You were too nice to her. She lost respect and attraction for you. 

You are too much of a nice guy. 

Trust me on this. Get into counseling for codependency.


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## GuDe

Hermes said:


> Go pick up No More Mister Nice Guy. Also, Married Mans Sex Primer. Latly, get Codependent no more.
> 
> You are a VERY good guy. You were too nice to her. She lost respect and attraction for you.
> 
> You are too much of a nice guy.
> 
> Trust me on this. Get into counseling for codependency.


I was too nice?

I don;t understand this logic...aren't you supposed to be nice to someone you love. Aren't you supposed to be nice to those you care for? Family, friends? Why would your wife (or soon-to-be wife) be any different?

Why would I want to be married or with someone I have to be mean too?


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## Hermes

GuDe said:


> I was too nice?
> 
> I don;t understand this logic...aren't you supposed to be nice to someone you love. Aren't you supposed to be nice to those you care for? Family, friends? Why would your wife (or soon-to-be wife) be any different?
> 
> Why would I want to be married or with someone I have to be mean too?


I know that it is counter intuitive. Trust me. Read those books. 

I (and MANY of us on her) were like this in our love lives. We place our SO on a pedestal. We treat them like they are goddesses. They, in turn, lose respect for us, since they see us as pushovers. 

Let me ask you a few things:

Did you ever find yourself hiding (or not telling the complete truth) things from her, because you felt she would think less of you? What about to others? 
Did you always care about how she was feeling? 
Did you always try to please her, both sexually and emotionally? Did she do the same for you? Did you neglect yourself because you always tried to do what you thought was right? 
Do you try to be perfect at everything? 
Did you try to manipulate her to get things you wanted? 
Did you give to her (items, love, her wants, etc) with the expectation that you would get something in return?
Did you stand up to her, or did you let her make decisions in the engagement?
Did you parents meet your needs when you were younger? 
Were your parents together when you were young? 
Do you have many male friends, that you hang out with regularly?

I thought the same thing. Why would someone want to be with someone that was not nice to them. That is not the case. The fact is women want a man that is a MAN. They want someone that will stand up for themselves. They want someone that will not be a pushover or a doormat to them. 

I did ALL of things above, with the thought that my wife would love me for it, since I was being nice to her and giving to her, why would I not get what I wanted, in return? You know what I got? an affair with a guy that treats her like crap. 

Read them. It will be an eye opener.


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## GuDe

Hermes said:


> I know that it is counter intuitive. Trust me. Read those books.
> 
> I (and MANY of us on her) were like this in our love lives. We place our SO on a pedestal. We treat them like they are goddesses. They, in turn, lose respect for us, since they see us as pushovers.
> 
> Let me ask you a few things:
> 
> Did you ever find yourself hiding (or not telling the complete truth) things from her, because you felt she would think less of you? What about to others?
> Did you always care about how she was feeling?
> Did you always try to please her, both sexually and emotionally? Did she do the same for you? Did you neglect yourself because you always tried to do what you thought was right?
> Do you try to be perfect at everything?
> Did you try to manipulate her to get things you wanted?
> Did you give to her (items, love, her wants, etc) with the expectation that you would get something in return?
> Did you stand up to her, or did you let her make decisions in the engagement?
> Did you parents meet your needs when you were younger?
> Were your parents together when you were young?
> Do you have many male friends, that you hang out with regularly?
> 
> I thought the same thing. Why would someone want to be with someone that was not nice to them. That is not the case. The fact is women want a man that is a MAN. They want someone that will stand up for themselves. They want someone that will not be a pushover or a doormat to them.
> 
> I did ALL of things above, with the thought that my wife would love me for it, since I was being nice to her and giving to her, why would I not get what I wanted, in return? You know what I got? an affair with a guy that treats her like crap.
> 
> Read them. It will be an eye opener.


I don't know man...I was never a doormat to her...nor her to me. Nor was she pushy or anything. The problem I have with the theory that she "lost respect for me"...I never changed the way I acted toward her form day one to when she left. Regarding the questions you asked: 

*Did you ever find yourself hiding (or not telling the complete truth) things from her, because you felt she would think less of you? What about to others? *

Never. I had no reason to hide things from her.

*Did you always care about how she was feeling?*

Well, I wanted her to be happy. Of course I cared about her feelings.



> Did you always try to please her, both sexually and emotionally? Did she do the same for you?


I did things to make her happy. But I wasn't constantly doting on her all the time. I mean, I'd do little stuff, chores you know, small stuff to make her happy. I'd hold her, cheer her up when she was sad. I don't see how this is a bad thing though

Sexually, things were pretty equal. Of course I always tried to please her in that way, but she always reciprocated. Sex was never a pushy or begging subject.

*Did you neglect yourself because you always tried to do what you thought was right? *

No. I'm a pretty "set in my ways" kind of guy.

*Do you try to be perfect at everything?
*
No.

*Did you try to manipulate her to get things you wanted? 
*
No

*Did you give to her (items, love, her wants, etc) with the expectation that you would get something in return?*

No. I don't give gifts or things expecting things in return, and we loved each other. It was never a matter of using love as tool.

*Did you stand up to her, or did you let her make decisions in the engagement?*

Like what? I mean there were never any decisions that I wasn't okay with that I had to "stand up" to. 

*Did you parents meet your needs when you were younger?
*
My father did. See below

*Were your parents together when you were young? *

Mom was in and out...

*Do you have many male friends, that you hang out with regularly?*

I have my crew of guy...not sure how you quantify "many" but yeah, I hang out with my guy friends several times a week, and back then it was even more.


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## Hermes

Fair enough on the responses. I would still suggest reading the books I recommended. I will respond more indepth shortly, I am in the middle of cooking for my daughter. A lot of guys fall into the nice guy category. Take a look at the books. I believe there is a .pdf floating around her of nmmng.


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## Hermes

Also, it is not a bad thing. In relationships guys tend to be more beta focused, where as while courting they are more alpha. Women are attracted to alpha characteristics, but feel secure and safe with beta. It is not a bad thing that you loved and cared for her.


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## GuDe

Hermes said:


> Also, it is not a bad thing. In relationships guys tend to be more beta focused, where as while courting they are more alpha. Women are attracted to alpha characteristics, but feel secure and safe with beta. It is not a bad thing that you loved and cared for her.


It doesn't really matter how much I loved her. It was for nothing,because she's still gone. I wasn't enough. Her friends were more important. Everything we built ended up being worth dirt to her.

And now here I am, almost 10 months after she called things off, and I'm just confused as ever, and just as hurt as I was then. I don't cry myself to sleep anymore, and I don't dream about her every night, but everything in this town reminds me of her.

She's out having the time of her life, not giving a damn about me, or the 2 years we lived together, or the future she wanted, and I'm stuck here picking up the pieces trying to figure out where I am, emotionally.

I want to start over so bad. I don't want to resurrect the relationship, or try to rebuild what was. I want to just talk to her, get EVERYTHING in the open, all the baggage, and just start over with her.You know, she was the only person I could ever really trust. I could tell her anything about how I felt, and never had to be embarrassed or self-conscious about it. Now, I don't even trust her enough to talk to her openly.

It's so difficult because what I want is literally impossible. I ca do almost anything. I have a degree. I'm a pilot. I have flown thousands of feet in the air. I'm blessed with the gift to translate my feelings and thoughts into music....but the one thing I really want, is literally unobtainable, and that's what hurts the most.

That I'm just stuck here, and there's nothing I can do about it to fix it. As a pilot, when things go wrong in the air, you react, and fix it. Trying to land in heavy gusts? Not a problem. There's a fix for that.

There's is no fix, there is no answer, there is nothing I can do to get/have the one thing I truly want.


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## ilou

You just listed everything you wanted. But you know you can't get it. Move on. For some reason, women find that intriguing whether it be your ex or someone else. I believe you will get over this and I think 5 years down the line, you'll be looking back at this and just laugh about it.

So yup, do the NC (100%) with a purpose of moving on and making yourself even better than before, not the purpose of making her jealous. Otherwise, it probably won't work out well. Check out BigMac's thread. NC, being a jerk, flirting with other women...thought his wife was having doubts and BAMN, she had the divorce papers on the table.

Good luck


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