# Turned down sex last night



## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

Last night i turned my wife down. i am the HD spouse so everyone knows. my wife always dictates when we can or cannot be intimate. her way of 'initiating' is to come out of the bathroom in a towel or naked instead of in her pjs. which is my cue to take a shower for sex - there's no real seduction involved. to set the stage for the story.
We were out as a family on Saturday afternoon as the day wore on my wife continuously drove me nuts w her rants peculiarities and attitude. she ended up apologizing for not wanting sex that night which i told her w the way she was today i wasn't interested. yesterday she was out running errands and housework while i watched the kids and hung outside w neighbors. i was still annoyed from the day before and we barely acknowledged each other. well the kids r asleep and she comes out of the bathroom naked - which is my cue. i wasn't in the mood again but went along with it, after washing up i find her in the bedroom on the 'net reading a story. its about some tragic car accident. it was very sad and about the opposite end of 'come hither' as there can be. a complete mood killer so instead of waiting in bed for me putting something sexy on or anything remotely sexual she's reading depressing news and telling me about it..............
Well i told her forget it the mood is gone and go to sleep. she made a lame attempt to seduce me then by but i was so annoyed about the situation and the general state of our relationship by then she gave up and went to sleep.
Thoughts?


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

I say good for you. The problem with the LD/HD dynamic is that the LD partner wields all the power -- so you took some of your power back, and maybe gave her a wakeup call as well.

One question --- abduction?


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

I meant afternoon this stupid phone completed my word incorrectly lol.
Well i ended up giving her a massage (always non sexual never lead to sex) when we went to sleep. i didn't want the night to end w us pissed at each other. probably was weak i admit.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

No, I don't think it was weak at all. It was probably a good move, strategically, since LD partners frequently complain that they never get any physical affection that doesn't lead to sex.

So see, you're smarter than you realized!


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

No you did just fine. You want her to want to be with you, it's not too much to ask that she show more effort than she put in. You're not asking for much.

Just be sure to reassure her you love her, and communicate what you didn't like (lovingly) and tell her what you'd love to see more of (perhaps in a playful/flirtatious way).


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

I can feel your frustration on this one. I feel like this is exactly where I used to be and I hated it. The fact she can still go to sleep, while you sit awake pretending to sleep, hoping she "tries again". You did the right thing, although I know it was hard.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

effess said:


> I meant afternoon this stupid phone completed my word incorrectly lol.
> Well i ended up giving her a massage (always non sexual never lead to sex) when we went to sleep. i didn't want the night to end w us passed passed at each other. probably was weak i admit.


See, to me, that was weak if that was your reason. My guess is that your wife took it as you apologizing for being mad. Were you wrong? Did you mean to apologize? If not, then you sent exactly the wrong message, and surrendered to her so that you could keep the peace. That is not what you want to be happening.

Consider that she views it as getting out of sex, while getting both an apology from you and a massage. Maybe not the lottery, but dang close.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Sorry but I also agree with Tall on this.

Giving her the massage was the wrong move. You again gave her the power. She should have given a massage to you (in a non-sexual manner) in this case


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

effess said:


> I meant afternoon this stupid phone completed my word incorrectly lol.
> Well i ended up giving her a massage (always non sexual never lead to sex) when we went to sleep. i didn't want the night to end w us passed passed at each other. probably was weak i admit.


I just saw his second post.

No no no no no no no no no no no no. OMG no. No. She did wrong by you and ignores your needs.... and you give her a massage because you feel bad?


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

This is why i posted. I don't really discuss this stuff w anyone in my life and need perspective from outside parties. you tend to be trapped in ur thoughts. Plus i can be melodramatic about myself so just wanted to hear some opinions - thx.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Well, I'm HD so I understand you, but I'm female, so I have some input into your wife. I'm a keeper


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

The final part of the conversation that i left out was my wife asking if i regretted shooting her down last night, i assume she thought i did considering the massage and that im a total hornball. i told her no i didn't - she still killed the mood.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

She did kill the mood, and she needs to acknowledge that.

Ptui. I just wish these women got it, but they don't. I'm sorry.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

lamaga said:


> She did kill the mood, and she needs to acknowledge that.
> 
> Ptui. I just wish these women got it, but they don't. I'm sorry.


She's no monster, and I'm no saint, so I don't want to portray her as some b*$ch. But she definitely takes things for granted and has a hard time truly understanding how important sex is in a relationship. She'll pay it lip service, but when it gets down to it - .
The best I could describe it was a few years ago, after we had our second child, I planned a night away for her. Got her family together, organized a night out for them, and rented her a room downtown so she could get a good night's rest (obviously wasn't sleeping well with a baby).
That was my first time alone with both kids, through the night for 24 hrs. I always knew that raising children were hard - but I never truly _understood_ it until that day. She knows sex is important, but doesn't really understand.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Effess...I think we are married to the same person!

You did well in turning your wife down. I wish I had the strength to do it... Thing is, if I did turn her down I'd NEVER get laid!


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

So i get home from work last night and she's already putting the kids to bed - so im hoping maybe tonight then shell make up for the night before. she comes out of the shower - pjs :-( . But she wants to cuddle. i wash up and she cuddles up to me and asks for a little massage and we chit chat for a bit then fall asleep...... Nothing.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I'm curious as to why she dictates when you are intimate, and why you don't initiate?

Your post about taking care of the kids and giving her a night off... that was a very kind gesture for a mom. You do seem to appreciate what being a mom is about.

Have you ever gotten a sitter and taken her out on a date? (As a wife, not a mom?)

Have you read any of the books that are popular here?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

deejov said:


> I'm curious as to why she dictates when you are intimate, and why you don't initiate?
> 
> Your post about taking care of the kids and giving her a night off... that was a very kind gesture for a mom. You do seem to appreciate what being a mom is about.
> 
> ...


This. As I understand it, she turns you down for sex frequently. Since you gave her a massage the day before, why didn't you tell her that you are not in the mood to give a massage, but since she got one last night, it is her turn to give you one. If she balks, shrug your shoulders and role over to sleep.

I see your issue being that she turns you down on what you want, but still gets what she wants. Pretty unfair, so you need to stop doing everything for her. Make it clear that your marriage is a two-way street. You can't make her have sex, but you don't need to be cater to her either.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

effess said:


> So i get home from work last night and she's already putting the kids to bed - so im hoping maybe tonight then shell make up for the night before. she comes out of the shower - pjs :-( . But she wants to cuddle. i wash up and she cuddles up to me and asks for a little massage and we chit chat for a bit then fall asleep...... Nothing.


Sorry effess but I see this as another fail on your part.

She controlled the situation again! She sends the signal with her clothing and then you cuddle with her (please please tell me that you did not massage her!)

What you should have done was to just take her into your bed and remove her PJs. Be a bit aggressive like this next time and see what happens


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

Toffer said:


> Sorry effess but I see this as another fail on your part.
> 
> She controlled the situation again! She sends the signal with her clothing and then you cuddle with her (please please tell me that you did not massage her!)
> 
> What you should have done was to just take her into your bed and remove her PJs. Be a bit aggressive like this next time and see what happens


YES...Try this, if you guys are in bed, kids asleep, then get up and lock the door to your bedroom. Don't ask her for sex, just get in your mind you guys are going to have sex. Tell her i am giving you a full body rub...start up near her head with rub and 10 minutes in to it start rubbing her sensitive parts. Be strong with your hands and just be dominating. I think you will be in for a surprise.

If she totally blows you off, DON'T GET MAD. Just say, "you'll be missing a great massage but that's fine" Give her a kiss and goto sleep like it did not even bother you. And for the next few days DON'T initiate at all.


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

effess said:


> So i get home from work last night and she's already putting the kids to bed - so im hoping maybe tonight then shell make up for the night before. she comes out of the shower - pjs :-( . But she wants to cuddle. i wash up and she cuddles up to me and asks for a little massage and we chit chat for a bit then fall asleep...... Nothing.


Nothing wrong with being a good husband and it sounds like she like she loves being close to you. However, do you feel her needs for massages and cuddling are more important than your needs? Do you feel your attention and the time you spend listening to her chit chat is less important than the time you want to her to spend with you? Stop selling yourself short, she sounds like a good girl, just insensitive because she doesn't know how important your time is yet. Communicate and explain to her that you have needs too. 

Or just be her part time blanket / part time doormat for the rest of your marriage.

Good luck.



lamaga said:


> Well, I'm HD so I understand you, but I'm female, so I have some input into your wife. I'm a keeper


Yea you are, but your scary avatar keeps the creepers away.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

deejov said:


> I'm curious as to why she dictates when you are intimate, and why you don't initiate?
> 
> Your post about taking care of the kids and giving her a night off... that was a very kind gesture for a mom. You do seem to appreciate what being a mom is about.
> 
> ...


We've gone out on plenty of dates which are usually initiated by me. she thinks i just take her out so i can try new restaurants, which isn't true. she doesn't look at dates the way i do - she considers them almost stressful because finding a babysitter the timing is rarely ideal etc. 
As for why i don't initiate its because it'll always be no. and if i ask too much than she says im putting too much pressure on her and shell essentially get performance anxiety. if i ask though if im really horny shell give me a hj/bj in the shower which could be once or twice a week. so im not totally left hanging.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

I appreciate the replies.
The aggressive approach might work if she was in the right mood but shed probably get annoyed that i was being so pushy.
A couple of months ago i gave her a full body massage when she was naked i asked afterward if we could have a quickie and it was a stern no. later on i asked if she got horny at all from the massage and she replied 'not even a little bit'. Massages mean nothing to her sexually and if anything make her sleepy. 
Sex is important to me it makes me feel like a man it makes me feel whole - and its one thing that i have no say when we can or cannot but to treat it like a burden or a chore...............


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

Aristotle said:


> Nothing wrong with being a good husband and it sounds like she like she loves being close to you. However, do you feel her needs for massages and cuddling are more important than your needs? Do you feel your attention and the time you spend listening to her chit chat is less important than the time you want to her to spend with you? Stop selling yourself short, she sounds like a good girl, just insensitive because she doesn't know how important your time is yet. Communicate and explain to her that you have needs too.
> 
> Or just be her part time blanket / part time doormat for the rest of your marriage.
> 
> ...


She definitely knows the premium i put on a healthy and active sex life w her. we've had more talks arguments fights about it than i can count. 
To highlight th point i bought and read cover to cover sex starved marriage. i put it by the tub where she keeps her magazines for reading - she perused it a few times and that's it.


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

effess said:


> I appreciate the replies.
> The aggressive approach might work if she was in the right mood but shed probably get annoyed that i was being so pushy.
> A couple of months ago i gave her a full body massage when she was naked i asked afterward if we could have a quickie and it was a stern no.


OMG.

Time for you to learn the "stern no" as well.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

Aristotle said:


> OMG.
> 
> Time for you to learn the "stern no" as well.


If this dynamic continues through the summer with her having all the power in this department and making me flap in the wind until the next time she can muster enough energy for sex........
Maybe MMSL or something akin to it.


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## livnlearn (Mar 5, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> OMG.
> 
> Time for you to learn the "stern no" as well.


:iagree: I'm struggling to say this because part of me is extremely envious that there are actually men out there that will give massages with no expectations of sex afterwards however a bigger part of me is thinking wth is up with the stern "NO" like you're a child. IMO that should have been your wife's last massage E VER until she is willing to be more receptive to taking care of your needs.


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

effess said:


> I appreciate the replies.
> The aggressive approach might work if she was in the right mood but shed probably get annoyed that i was being so pushy.
> A couple of months ago i gave her a full body massage when she was naked i asked afterward if we could have a quickie and it was a stern no. later on i asked if she got horny at all from the massage and she replied 'not even a little bit'. Massages mean nothing to her sexually and if anything make her sleepy.
> Sex is important to me it makes me feel like a man it makes me feel whole - and its one thing that i have no say when we can or cannot but to treat it like a burden or a chore...............


Wow...stop asking if you can have a quickie. Just STOP asking and start doing.

You should not have to "ask" her for sex. Read "Married man's sex guide" from cover to cover. Don't let her know you are reading it.

You need to change for her to change.

I am in a different situation than you, i suspect my wife to have cheated or is cheating. Well with no proof yet i just changed myself by reading that book. I am fit (44 years old, but look,feel 30, lift weights, i am stern with my wife when she tries to be dominate with me. For the last 5 weeks my sex life has changed to 4 times average a week.

I told her the other day, the old "us" of 1-2 times of sex a month is not going to cut it and i have a high sex drive. She stood there and i had her completely focused on me. All she did was nod her head and say "I understand, ok". Had sex that night and the next.

It's funny, with my new confidence and higher sex rank than hers (you will know what i mean by reading the book) i mostly don't even have to initiate sex, she does!!

Your wife is in total control of when you have sex, it sucks and has to be changed. She does not know it yet, but i bet your wife actually wants you to have the control back. 

You need to be someone your wife finds sexy, and like i say, begging for sex is not sexy. Please read MMSG right away.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

effess said:


> I appreciate the replies.
> The aggressive approach might work if she was in the right mood but shed probably get annoyed that i was being so pushy.
> A couple of months ago i gave her a full body massage when she was naked i asked afterward if we could have a quickie and it was a stern no. later on i asked if she got horny at all from the massage and she replied 'not even a little bit'. Massages mean nothing to her sexually and if anything make her sleepy.
> Sex is important to me it makes me feel like a man it makes me feel whole - and its one thing that i have no say when we can or cannot but to treat it like a burden or a chore...............


What does she do to make you feel special? If we assume for a moment that she does not understand how important sex is to you, what things does she do to show she loves you? Massages, gifts, cooking you a meal? What can you point to where she is trying to make it good for you?


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

The next time you try to take her on a date don't make her do anything. You set up the babysitter, you pick the restaurant, you orchestrate the whole evening. When you get home, take her. Don't ask just do it. She might think you're being pushy if you keep asking, but if you don't ask and just take her it may show her that you think she's desirable and you can't control yourself. This is what I do for my wife and after she gets into it (which can take a little while) she stops feeling put upon and starts feeling sexy. Once I even got applause from her. 

But what works for me may not work for you. It's worth a try.


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

livnlearn said:


> :iagree: I'm struggling to say this because part of me is extremely envious that there are actually men out there that will give massages with no expectations of sex afterwards however a bigger part of me is thinking wth is up with the stern "NO" like you're a child. IMO that should have been your wife's last massage E VER until she is willing to be more receptive to taking care of your needs.


Livnlearn, there are a lot of men out there that will give you massages with no expectations of sex afterwards, at massage parlors. They expect money though. Is expectations of sex afterwards from your husband really that big of a deal though?  Why do women feel so threatened by the idea that a man loves to make them happy and in return, wants to see if his wife loves to make him happy? 

For me, this is equivalent to a wife who gives great sex all night then afterwords puts a gag in her mouth and turns on the football games for her husband while serving him beers. I'd comment, I am extremely envious that there are women out there that will give you sex with no expectations at all afterwards. They do not want to talk, be cuddled, eat together, sleep together, or anything. Although they are out there, hookers, you just have to pay them.

Of course I would never be envious of that, because I love the fact my wife wants to talk before and after we are intimate. I love that my wife wants to watch a movie together or hold me until she falls asleep. Why would I put negative undertones about my wife's expectations, as if her needs are such a burden. My wife needs my attention, and I'd be offended if I had sex with her and she wanted me to leave her alone afterwards. It's a circle. 

Anyway, I am not trying to argue livnlearn, I just noticed your comment and I am bored at work. The slight hint of negativity eventually builds resentment, when in my opinion, a husband wanting sex from his wife is a compliment. At least he wants it from you, finds you attractive, and wanted you to be happy to begin with. *shrug*


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

I dot beg i dontt even ask it happens when she has enough energy for it.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

Tall Average Guy said:


> What does she do to make you feel special? If we assume for a moment that she does not understand how important sex is to you, what things does she do to show she loves you? Massages, gifts, cooking you a meal? What can you point to where she is trying to make it good for you?


She makes/packs my lunch for work everyday. will serve me dinner normally unless i get home late. like i mentioned before she will give me a hj/bj in the shower once or twice a week. she's tries but in ways that don't require to.much sacrifice from her or in ways that she doesn't mind (like cooking).


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

sandc said:


> The next time you try to take her on a date don't make her do anything. You set up the babysitter, you pick the restaurant, you orchestrate the whole evening. When you get home, take her. Don't ask just do it. She might think you're being pushy if you keep asking, but if you don't ask and just take her it may show her that you think she's desirable and you can't control yourself. This is what I do for my wife and after she gets into it (which can take a little while) she stops feeling put upon and starts feeling sexy. Once I even got applause from her.
> 
> But what works for me may not work for you. It's worth a try.


I laughed when i read this. i know ur helping but this wouldn't happen. 
I normally do find the babysitter. the restaurant would be a big deal normally just on price (she's frugal to say the least her other big power trip she holds over me). and just Friday night she returned home from a retirement dinner when i was putting the kids to bed and was looking HOT! i was all over her. like white on rice. i got a bj out of it but when i asked if we could go to the bedroom all i got was a head shake and a nuh-uh.


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

effess said:


> I laughed when i read this. i know ur helping but this wouldn't happen.
> I normally do find the babysitter. the restaurant would be a big deal normally just on price (she's frugal to say the least her other big power trip she holds over me). and just Friday night she returned home from a retirement dinner when i was putting the kids to bed and was looking HOT! i was all over her. like white on rice. i got a bj out of it but when i asked if we could go to the bedroom all i got was a head shake and a nuh-uh.


Don't ask!!! It's like you are child looking to get a cookie before bed. Just bring her to bedroom and tell her not to say a word. Please just try it....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

effess said:


> I laughed when i read this. i know ur helping but this wouldn't happen.
> I normally do find the babysitter. the restaurant would be a big deal normally just on price (she's frugal to say the least her other big power trip she holds over me). and just Friday night she returned home from a retirement dinner when i was putting the kids to bed and was looking HOT! i was all over her. like white on rice. i got a bj out of it but when i asked if we could go to the bedroom all i got was a head shake and a nuh-uh.


Then I don't get this:


> We've gone out on plenty of dates which are usually initiated by me. she thinks i just take her out so i can try new restaurants, which isn't true. she doesn't look at dates the way i do - she considers them almost stressful because finding a babysitter the timing is rarely ideal etc.


Why is it stressful to her if you're doing all the work? 

Frankly the "nuh-uh" shouldn't be. She says no and you stop... don't stop. Take her anyway. Gentle but firm.


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## happylovingwife (Jun 5, 2012)

effess said:


> She makes/packs my lunch for work everyday. will serve me dinner normally unless i get home late. like i mentioned before she will give me a hj/bj in the shower once or twice a week. she's tries but in ways that don't require to.much sacrifice from her or in ways that she doesn't mind (like cooking).


Have you tried being blunt with her? Does she know how upset you are about this? You need to tell her often and forcefully. Women don't get it unless they are confronted by the situation often. 

My story:I'm just going to tell you that my husband and I were in a similar position with regard to sex the first few years after my son was born. The major problem was that I was resentful of all the ways my life had changed and his hadn't. I didn't realize this at the time. At the time, I justified it as being "too tired." I really thought that was the problem. I justified it by explaining that I'd rather spend that 30 minutes sleeping than messing around. Keep in mind, that I am a sleep paranoid person. If I get less than 7 hours of sleep, I start to panic. Babies are very hard for me, obviously. Anyway, we probably had sex once a month for 2 or 3 years. My husband didn't complain often. Once in awhile we'd have a big fight over it but it was so rare I fluffed it off as inconsequential. My husband never made a big deal over most of the time so it couldn't be so bad. I figured his little tantrums were him just being a baby at that moment in time for not getting what he wanted rather than a chronic problem.

Anyway, I began to become more interested in it later on naturally and frequency improved. He seemed happier and our marriage seemed more affectionate overall. Once I noticed this change, I asked him about his ideal frequency. He told me. Then I thought about all the reasons I would reject him and how to fix them. I first noticed that he would initiate at bed time and by that time I really wasn't in the mood. I had sleep on the brain. So I began to initiate right after the kids went to bed. This totally changed our routine and achieved his desired frequency. Turns out, when the timing is not intrusive on my sleep, I want it!! 

Now, even when it is intrusive, I recognize that my husband's feelings matter more than my sleep. After reading men, like yourself, talk about their feelings of sadness, loneliness and desperation, I have decided that 30 minutes of lost sleep is worth making my amazing husband feel good about himself while also strengthening our marriage. 

My point is that your wife can change, BUT you have to be willing to MAKE her understand how important this is. Having a fight once a week about this topic is not going to make her understand. You need to sit down when things are calm and talk and talk and talk about it. She needs to know. Women can be dense about sex because it's not the same for us. We like it but we heat up slower and the less we have it the less we want it. Women talk about men being clueless, but a lot of us are extremely dense on this topic.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

@ jerry i promise i will try it i have my doubts though but since u insist haha

@sand my wife has anxiety issues. were going on vacation as a family in a couple of weeks and she's not excited but anxious - about the plane ride packing etc. she doesn't cope well to say the least. So even date nights when i plan everything she's anxious about leaving the kids, the timing where were going to eat at etc.

@ happy i cannot begin to communicate how many times we had the sex talk. she knows i want it how i like it what id like to try etc. its just not a priority for her. the too tired thing is her most common reason. she says how can i worry about ur needs when my most basic one aka sleep is not met.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

effess said:


> She makes/packs my lunch for work everyday. will serve me dinner normally unless i get home late. like i mentioned before she will give me a hj/bj in the shower once or twice a week. she's tries but in ways that don't require to.much sacrifice from her or in ways that she doesn't mind (like cooking).


Sounds like as long as it is easy, she will do something for you. Not sure that is a reciprical relationship. 

I am interested in her giving you a bj/hj 1-2 times a week in the shower. She is willing to give you a bj but sex is off the table? How often is it a hj versus a bj? That seems like a bit of a disconnect. Are there physical reasons for her not being able to have sex?


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## livnlearn (Mar 5, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Livnlearn, there are a lot of men out there that will give you massages with no expectations of sex afterwards, at massage parlors. They expect money though. Is expectations of sex afterwards from your husband really that big of a deal though? Why do women feel so threatened by the idea that a man loves to make them happy and in return, wants to see if his wife loves to make him happy?
> 
> For me, this is equivalent to a wife who gives great sex all night then afterwords puts a gag in her mouth and turns on the football games for her husband while serving him beers. I'd comment, I am extremely envious that there are women out there that will give you sex with no expectations at all afterwards. They do not want to talk, be cuddled, eat together, sleep together, or anything. Although they are out there, hookers, you just have to pay them.
> 
> ...


Wow, now I know how my 15 year old feels when he makes a simple comment and I turn it into a life lecture.

I was just being silly Aristotle...notice the "".


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

livnlearn said:


> Wow, now I know how my 15 year old feels when he makes a simple comment and I turn it into a life lecture.
> 
> I was just being silly Aristotle...notice the "".


lol, I know. My font reads like charlie brown's mother talks.

Like I said, boredom at work.


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

effess said:


> @ jerry i promise i will try it i have my doubts though but since u insist haha
> 
> @sand my wife has anxiety issues. were going on vacation as a family in a couple of weeks and she's not excited but anxious - about the plane ride packing etc. she doesn't cope well to say the least. So even date nights when i plan everything she's anxious about leaving the kids, the timing where were going to eat at etc.
> 
> @ happy i cannot begin to communicate how many times we had the sex talk. she knows i want it how i like it what id like to try etc. its just not a priority for her. the too tired thing is her most common reason. she says how can i worry about ur needs when my most basic one aka sleep is not met.



Good to hear, and post back on how it went. But please if she straight out stops you from what you are doing or physically pushed you away say " too bad, I think you would have enjoyed it" and kiss her goodnight but don't be angry. 
Also, don't be worried and thinking she will say no while you are starting to initiate sex. That gives off bad vibes and she will see it. Just be confident you are going to have sex. 

Please read MMSG, the author laughs at when guys think their wives don't want sex or are not interested in sex. Other than the anxiety if she is healthy then she does like sex. 

Not to be judgemental, but are you in shape. Can you lift weights to tone up a little, or if you are 20 lbs over weight could you start eating better. 

It took me 6 months to get to where I am. Lost 20 lbs and lift at least 5 days a week. Nothing crazy, I just have a bar with 40-50 lbs, and a curling bar with 25 lbs on it. Losing my weight helped define my muscles. Trust me, women like a tone fit man. My wife can't help but touch me and my arms.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thecqman (May 17, 2012)

I am new to the forum. What is HD. Where can i get the meaning of this


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

jerry123 said:


> Good to hear, and post back on how it went. But please if she straight out stops you from what you are doing or physically pushed you away say " too bad, I think you would have enjoyed it" and kiss her goodnight but don't be angry.
> Also, don't be worried and thinking she will say no while you are starting to initiate sex. That gives off bad vibes and she will see it. Just be confident you are going to have sex.
> 
> Please read MMSG, the author laughs at when guys think their wives don't want sex or are not interested in sex. Other than the anxiety if she is healthy then she does like sex.
> ...


Yes i go to the gym often and am in good shape - im not where id like to be ideally but if i put on a nice fitting t shirt she will take note and pay a compliment. 
Thanks for the advice.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Sounds like as long as it is easy, she will do something for you. Not sure that is a reciprical relationship.
> 
> I am interested in her giving you a bj/hj 1-2 times a week in the shower. She is willing to give you a bj but sex is off the table? How often is it a hj versus a bj? That seems like a bit of a disconnect. Are there physical reasons for her not being able to have sex?


Yes shell do what comes easy to her this i know but don't we all do this to some extent.
The hj/bj thing is even i guess i don't really keep track. she does have issues w yeast infections at times so when she feels one coming on shell abstain. and before anyone asks she's seen docs about it.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

@ happy I
As a woman who was in the place my wife was sometimes i wonder if the availability of sex makes it something she takes for granted. she's definitely the type who will want what she can't have and take for granted what she has. 
I remember she had a friend from college who was from the Middle East and returned home after school. she used to wake up in the middle of the night to take her call but when this friend moved back to finish grad school my wife barely made time to see her.
My question is do u think that dynamic plays into her lack of desire. she's told me she hasn't felt horny in yrs. I wonder knowing id drop anything in a heartbeat to have sex plays in her mind and she takes it all for granted.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

thecqman said:


> I am new to the forum. What is HD. Where can i get the meaning of this


It means high drive as in a high sex drive as opposed to the spouse who is LD or low drive.


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## happylovingwife (Jun 5, 2012)

effess said:


> @ happy I
> As a woman who was in the place my wife was sometimes i wonder if the availability of sex makes it something she takes for granted. she's definitely the type who will want what she can't have and take for granted what she has.
> I remember she had a friend from college who was from the Middle East and returned home after school. she used to wake up in the middle of the night to take her call but when this friend moved back to finish grad school my wife barely made time to see her.
> My question is do u think that dynamic plays into her lack of desire. she's told me she hasn't felt horny in yrs. I wonder knowing id drop anything in a heartbeat to have sex plays in her mind and she takes it all for granted.


Maybe subconsciously. I did notice that my husband stopped asking me for sex except for once or twice a month. I seriously and naively thought that it wasn't that important to him. I didn't care to give it much thought because I was off the hook so to speak. It was very selfish and immature. I was young (in my 20s) and thought sex was an extra and wasn't that important. I honestly thought he would ask if it was important. I never even dreamed of initiating beside offering little "hints" that I thought he was rejecting (come to find out he never picked up on these hints). It was bad communication and selfishness through and through.

I don't know what began the change. I think it was natural factors (not on hormonal b/c and not nursing or pregnant) that got my interest up. I was always responsive to sexual advances in that I would get turned on once in the act (never a cold fish) but never had spontaneous desire. So my interest improved to 2x a week naturally. We now have sex 6-7x a week. He thinks I'm extra horny. That's partially true. I now work to keep my libido up to his. I think about sex often throughout the night. I plan out my seduction all day and it gets me revved to go. By the time he comes home, I'm really interested. He loves my new-found libido. He doesn't know it's partially manufactured (would want it 2-3x a week but upping it to his level of 5-6x). I just love making him happy and the feeling of closeness I get afterward. Making it a priority in my life has made me feel happier.

Maybe sitting her down and saying, I don't care if you ever cook me another dinner or wash another sock of mine. The one thing I can't get from anyone else, you're not providing. 

That's what really hit me. I was the only person on earth that could take care of this need for my husband and I was ignoring it. :scratchhead:I don't know why it didn't dawn on me sooner. Duh. I just don't think women get it. I know I didn't. I'm a lot wiser now.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

Just the latest entry. 
Had to leave work early to watch the kids at the end of the school year fair. my wife had to work one of the games so i had to watch the kids. well after almost 5 hrs of chasing them around or standing there while they rode the same slide again and again and again lol we finally got home even during normal times i wouldn't expect sex so i didn't have my hopes up. got the kids to sleep i jumped in the shower and w/o asking she came in the bathroom and asked what i wanted aka bj. obviously i didn't pass it up and didn't push for much else considering we all had a long day. 
I am going to try the aggressive way of initiating - just not on a abnormal day like today. well see how tomorrow goes.

@happy thanks for sharing it does give me some hope. she's similar to how u were that she never is horny but will get in the mood and sometimes very passionate during sex. she knows enough to not be a cold fish or just 'lay there'. But the next level of actively making our sex life more dynamic and me having a say-so in this is beyond her. 
I've explained the cooking thing. I've told i can mover home and my mom would happily cook for me everyday. i can hire a maid to clean. ur the only person on the planet i can be intimate with - that fact alone makes it important. she just doesn't get it.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Lots of you are telling Effess (nicely!) to just 'take' his wife....if she is simply not interested and says 'no' (as she seems to do so often), if he continues in his quest then we are fast approaching marital rape.

It seems that his wife does love him...she packs his lunch for him, cooks him dinner etc...she shows him love in a non sexual way. But hey....I'm sure Efess would be happy to swop a daily lunch box for a daily BJ!

His wife (just as mine does) simply doesnt understand the importance of sex to a man or in a marriage.

Ask a 'normal' wife; 'what is the best thing you can do to show your husband just how much you love him?'
...'Give him THE BEST BJ he's ever had in his life'

Now, ask Effess's wife (or mine) the same question and the reply will be something like;
'Make him a smoked salmon sandwich for his lunch box'....or 'let him have a lie in on Sunday morning and wake him with a coffee'.

They simply won't or can't understand the importance of sex to their husbands.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

7737 said:


> Lots of you are telling Effess (nicely!) to just 'take' his wife....if she is simply not interested and says 'no' (as she seems to do so often), if he continues in his quest then we are fast approaching marital rape.
> 
> It seems that his wife does love him...she packs his lunch for him, cooks him dinner etc...she shows him love in a non sexual way. But hey....I'm sure Efess would be happy to swop a daily lunch box for a daily BJ!
> 
> ...


I disagree with the part of marital rape. I don't think anyone here advocated ANYTHING close to that and I thin Effess knows where that line is


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

Got home from work even later than the night before. the kids were still not asleep (my wife is terrible about this if im not on her back about it). my oldest had a hard time falling asleep and took forever. my wife ended up cuddling up w me on the couch and we watched some tv together w a few interruptions. i was being touchy-feely but not obnoxious about it and she admitted w/o my asking that she planned on us having sex tonite but it was late and the kids weren't really complying w their interruptions. 
We will see tonite.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

effess said:


> I laughed when i read this. i know ur helping but this wouldn't happen.
> I normally do find the babysitter. the restaurant would be a big deal normally just on price (she's frugal to say the least her other big power trip she holds over me). and just Friday night she returned home from a retirement dinner when i was putting the kids to bed and was looking HOT! i was all over her. like white on rice. i got a bj out of it but when i asked if we could go to the bedroom all i got was a head shake and a nuh-uh.


Birth control in place? Fear of getting pregnant? Maybe why she plans it.

Usually.... a bj happy wife means she does like you. An adversion to sex altogether normally means no bj either. It's an act of simply making your partner happy, so she does care.


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## happylovingwife (Jun 5, 2012)

effess said:


> Got home from work even later than the night before. the kids were still not asleep (my wife is terrible about this if im not on her back about it). my oldest had a hard time falling asleep and took forever. my wife ended up cuddling up w me on the couch and we watched some tv together w a few interruptions. i was being touchy-feely but not obnoxious about it and she admitted w/o my asking that she planned on us having sex tonite but it was late and the kids weren't really complying w their interruptions.
> We will see tonite.


Ok...let me see. My husband works late too. Back when we first got married he was the second employee for a start-up company. That meant he needed to work long hours to make it successful. So he frequently didn't come home until 9pm. I was a teacher so I had early hours. I went to bed between 9-10. This lack of time together made me somewhat resentful. I didn't feel like getting all sexy with him because I was annoyed that he was always working. This impacted my ability to do it anyway when I wasn't feeling like it. I wasn't feeling loving toward my husband so I refused to act lovingly (and as I mentioned previously, I had low drive due to a bunch of other factors including hormonal b/c). It was still wrong, but that's how I justified it. 

Then after having kids, my husband tried to get home earlier so he could see them. With our first son (only for 3.5 years), we would alternate nights of putting him to bed (I was SAHM by that point) so that my husband would always feel capable of fully taking care of him and so that my son would always be willing to go to bed for anyone. I always appreciated that and felt more loving toward him as a result. More recently, if my husband wants some that night, he will put BOTH kids to bed rather than just his designated one kid and tell me to go take a shower while he does. I love my kids, but at the end of the day, having that break is priceless. He could ask me to swing from the chandelier with him afterward and I'd be happy to do so because I got that break from the kids. 

MY POINT: Maybe you could try to get home earlier a few days a week (dunno if you work shift or not), and put all the kids to bed yourself. Tell her to go take a shower and relax because you're coming for her later. If that doesn't work, I don't know what to tell you.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

OK, I found this to be a bit troubling:

"she admitted w/o my asking that she planned on us having sex tonite but it was late and the kids weren't really complying w their interruptions"

WTF? This kind of reminds me of some of the issues I have with my wife. She'll tell me (after a nice evening or something else) that I am going to get "date night sex" or something like that. However, as the night wears on, she'll actually fall asleep on the couch after we get in while we are relaxing before bed, usually with a glass of wine. Never a mention the next day or morning sex because she was too tired the night before.

She's still running the show! I would have said "you go get ready honey and relax, take a nap or whatever. I'LL HANDLE GETTING THE KIDS TO SLEEP!"

And I would have done everthing to get those kids down (bribery, threats, benadryl (just kidding))


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

@ deejov i got a vasectomy a few yrs ago so no more worries about that 

@ happy i try to get home at good time but not always possible. i don't mind putting kids to bed but sometimes that is the only real quality time they spend w her because she's such a busybody throughout the day. And she has her own unique routines w each of them but when i am home at a decent time i help w this definitely

@toffer she's definitely in control. i actually made a joke about this last night how she has all the control w me but she lets the kids push her around. i actually did stay w my oldest while my wife got ready she was just being exceptionally difficult last night. by the time my wife brought up what she originally had in mind it was close to 11 pm and im usually up by 5am so i was ok going to bed - for once, anyway when its that late the sex would probably be lame anyway


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## happylovingwife (Jun 5, 2012)

Not to go off topic, but as a sleep obsessed person 11pm sounds way too late for kids. 

How old are your kids? They sound young. My 4 year old and 1 year old both go to bed at 7:30 and sleep until 7:30 am. When they go to school, I expect to keep the bedtime around 8pm but the wake-up time will have to be earlier so it will even off with the increase in age. I would seriously insist on moving their bedtime to closer to 8 pm. 

You guys need couple time. If the kids aren't getting their time during the day then you need to re-evaluate your schedules IMO.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

effess,

I'm 50 and get up at 5:30 AM five days a week and typically not home before 7 PM.

"it was close to 11 pm and im usually up by 5am so i was ok going to bed - for once, anyway when its that late the sex would probably be lame anyway"

I'm gonna disagree with you on this, especially in light of the fact that you don't like the frequency of your sex life.

Hell, I know that after a late night romp I have no trouble waking up (notice I didn't say getting up?) for work in the AM and I actually feel more energized that day! 

For the love of Gad man, don't do that again!


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

happylovingwife said:


> Not to go off topic, but as a sleep obsessed person 11pm sounds way too late for kids.
> 
> How old are your kids? They sound young. My 4 year old and 1 year old both go to bed at 7:30 and sleep until 7:30 am. When they go to school, I expect to keep the bedtime around 8pm but the wake-up time will have to be earlier so it will even off with the increase in age. I would seriously insist on moving their bedtime to closer to 8 pm.
> 
> You guys need couple time. If the kids aren't getting their time during the day then you need to re-evaluate your schedules IMO.


That is their bedtime it just was a bad night. and my oldest was very difficult about it. but really the idea is they should be in bed by 745pm. but if im not home getting in everyones butt to hurry up it takes longer.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

Toffer said:


> effess,
> 
> I'm 50 and get up at 5:30 AM five days a week and typically not home before 7 PM.
> 
> ...


My point was it wasntt going to happen in light of the time. which was my wifes call not mine. if she was willing and able i would have gone for it but i was tired myself and knew even if i pushed the issue the sex would've been lame anyway.


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## happylovingwife (Jun 5, 2012)

effess said:


> That is their bedtime it just was a bad night. and my oldest was very difficult about it. but really the idea is they should be in bed by 745pm. but if implications not home getting in everyones butt to hurry up it takes longer.


Yeah. Ok.  Just chiming in.

Yeah, I would make an effort to come home and put them all to bed by yourself. That way you know they're in bed by 8pm and NO EXCUSES from her.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

Got home late last night but kids were already in bed. i ate dinner and preceded to pickup the house do dishes etc. i had a good feeling there was going to be sex last night because my wife texted me during the day how sweet the cuddling was the night before. 
She takes her bath and comes out naked - game on! Unfortunately the sex turned out to be rather vanilla and plain - she never got aroused but that's ok. im fine w that sometimes as long as it doesn't become everytime.
So success - sorta lol.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

On the way home now. i told her id bring home w movie we.could watch together after kids r sleeping maybe a comedy. won't plan on trying anything tonite. try and built up some 'cuddle equity'.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

Didn't post over weekend. 
Friday night I can't really recall, but nothing happened. She got her period, and nothing happens during those times (maybe once ever). We didn't end up watching the movie. I thinked we watched a little tv then went to bed. 
Saturday we chilled out around the house during the day and went to the park w/ the kids in the afternoon/evening. There was a big boxing fight that night, so I went to the neighbors to watch it after helping put kids to bed. 
I was hoping for something last night, but didnt ask. She was still on period, so I didn't broach it. But I did but her a "toy" online. I've brought up sporadically the past few years about getting a toy again. She used to have one before the kids were born, that she would use in front of me. But she threw it out after our first one. I didn't bring it up until we were going to sleep (after my hj in the shower  ). She was PISSED at first, but I stayed calm and told her sometimes, its easier to get her forgiveness than permission, plus she'd never buy one with the way she is these days (sex drive of a corpse). She ended up going online and cancelling it but said she'd get one when she feels like it, not cause i'm forcing her . I said I can just go buy another one, she swore if I did she'd never use it EVER - so I'm going to have to bring it up a little more frequently now. I was calm but firm about it. 
We'll see what happens tonight. I know the kids were up early so I can only imagine how tired she'll claim to be. I still want to try the firm approach of putting her on the bed removing the pjs etc. I'm just trying to time it when I think there's a better chance of success.


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