# Tired of the fact.



## JustSomeDude (Dec 5, 2010)

I am tired of good guys finishing last. I don't like it because its true inside of a relationship and out. I consider myself a goodhearted person and never like confrontation. Seems like us, the "good guys", never get a break. So after venting a bit I have to ask this. Ladies, is being "good guy" or having huge hearts make us seem weak?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

JustSomeDude said:


> I am tired of good guys finishing last. I don't like it because its true inside of a relationship and out. I consider myself a goodhearted person and never like confrontation.


If you are consistently sacrificing your own beliefs, convictions and desires to avoid conflict, you have no one to blame but yourself. You need to change. Change is often uncomfortable - particularly when most necessary. 



> Seems like us, the "good guys", never get a break. So after venting a bit I have to ask this. Ladies, is being "good guy" or having huge hearts make us seem weak?


I'm not a lady. And yes, if you keep putting that huge heart out there for others to constantly harm or break, you look weak. Here is the real key that may help you, if you can think about it and accept it; if you aren't clearly expressing and asserting what you believe, what you want and need, and importantly asserting yourself when someone challenges your beliefs and needs - then you really aren't all that "good" of a guy in the first place.


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

Hm, yes and no... I think every girl wants to be with a good guy at the end of the day--a man who is kind, generous, loving, and honest. Those are character traits that can't be faked.

But it's _how_ you go about communicating and expressing yourself that can make you appear "weak." Following your girlfriend/wife around like a puppy dog and doing everything she asks makes her feel like you're her servant or somehow beneath her. This can cause her to resent you, take advantage of you, etc. If you always wait around and do whatever she wants to do, then you're not asserting yourself enough and she will lose respect for you. I think it's possible to be a good guy but still act with self respect and confidence--this one's tough to achieve though because sometimes society is just telling men to open doors and buy flowers and be "romantic" instead.

What has happened in your past relationships to make you feel this way?


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## Mrs.LonelyGal (Nov 8, 2010)

lime said:


> Hm, yes and no... I think every girl wants to be with a good guy at the end of the day--a man who is kind, generous, loving, and honest. Those are character traits that can't be faked.
> 
> But it's _how_ you go about communicating and expressing yourself that can make you appear "weak." Following your girlfriend/wife around like a puppy dog and doing everything she asks makes her feel like you're her servant or somehow beneath her. This can cause her to resent you, take advantage of you, etc. If you always wait around and do whatever she wants to do, then you're not asserting yourself enough and she will lose respect for you. I think it's possible to be a good guy but still act with self respect and confidence--this one's tough to achieve though because sometimes society is just telling men to open doors and buy flowers and be "romantic" instead.
> 
> What has happened in your past relationships to make you feel this way?



Quoted for truth.

You can be a good guy/ nice guy w/o being a doormat.
I really appreciate that my husband is pretty good about anticipating my needs, like pouring me a cup of coffee or taking out the trash, or getting my oil changed, ect.
He however will not put up with disrespect. I can't do or say things to walk all over him because he stands up for himself.... though he hates confrontation, too. 

You can be confident and assertive and still be a pleasant and loving man.
I think of my marriage as a partnership or a team. There are somethings I am better at than he is and there are some aspects of our relationship he is better at than me. He is better at diffusing arguements, I am better at analysing the source of the contention that caused the arguement.

Granted there are some women (and men) out there that don't know how to treat their partnership w/ respect. They have unreasonable expectations of their mate and punish them when they are not lived up to.

I am not sure what is going on exactly with you, but I think sometimes a confrontation is required when you are being treated poorly.
Unfortunately, I know that some people who don't like confrontations tend to let stuff build up inside and blow up- making an easy conflict into a huge arguement. Try to avoid that by being assertive when neccessary, and not holding stuff in. Be direct, but pleasant, and stand up for yourself, but don't be unreasonable.


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## jamesa (Oct 22, 2010)

JustSomeDude said:


> I am tired of good guys finishing last. I don't like it because its true inside of a relationship and out. I consider myself a goodhearted person and never like confrontation. Seems like us, the "good guys", never get a break. So after venting a bit I have to ask this. Ladies, is being "good guy" or having huge hearts make us seem weak?


I am not a lady either, although I do look good in a tutu. 

I thought you might be interested in a study that was done to test whether nice guys do in fact finish last. 

The study was done by Robert Axelrod, and is a bit academic, but is is interesting.

Each 'being' in the computerised model was designed to cooperate (be nice) or 'defect' (be a selfish ****). Some were programmed to always cooperate, some to never cooperate and others to cooperate with those who cooperated with them and punish those who didn't.

In the end the ones who were always nice lost, as did the ones who were always nasty. The ones who were nice until they got jerked around won.

There is even a Congolese word 'ilunga' which means a person who is ready to forgive any abuse for the first time, to tolerate it a second time, but never a third time. I think that is our best bet.

So, be nice, but not a pushover.


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## JustSomeDude (Dec 5, 2010)

Wow! thats crazy. So, nice guys really do finish last. Just when I look back I realized I was really taking my wife for granted. now that i have realized that and have become clingy, like she was many years ago, she dosent seem to want it anymore. Makes me feel hurt.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

JustSomeDude said:


> Wow! thats crazy. So, nice guys really do finish last. Just when I look back I realized I was really taking my wife for granted. now that i have realized that and have become clingy, like she was many years ago, she dosent seem to want it anymore. Makes me feel hurt.


You may or may not have noticed there is an abundance of advice here dealing with the circumstances you outline. Take a look at it and decide for yourself. If you have questions, there are plenty of people that will give a range of valuable feedback.

If you were previously ignorant of your wife's needs, and now that she has withdrawn from you, you are trying to make amends by 'chasing' her - it won't work. Behaving like you are emotionally wounded because she is rejecting you will only make her behavior _worse_. You need a different strategy.


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## jamesa (Oct 22, 2010)

I forgot to say that the selfish ****s died off first.


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## Mrs.LonelyGal (Nov 8, 2010)

You will only finish last if you put yourself in last place.
I klnow it is a struggle sometimes, but you can find a balance between being a good partner and being good to yourself.... if your partner isn't selfish themselves, that is.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Mrs.LonelyGal said:


> You will only finish last if you put yourself in last place.
> I klnow it is a struggle sometimes, but you can find a balance between being a good partner and being good to yourself.... if your partner isn't selfish themselves, that is.


For the record, that is the mantra of most of the men here, particularly the recovering nice guys of which I am one.


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## Mrs.LonelyGal (Nov 8, 2010)

Deejo said:


> For the record, that is the mantra of most of the men here, particularly the recovering nice guys of which I am one.


Ha! Well, it is my mantra too.... I mean, I was tired of competing with computer porn, but I realized that I was putting my self and my needs aside, therefore neglecting my husband at the same time!

I have read- with a great deal of facination -the nice guy vs dominant male threads.
I agree with a lot of it in principal. Women are attracted to stronger and assertive manly men....but I do find fault with some of the dominance stuff. As I mentioned before, _my marriage is a partnership._ I'll admit that there is sometime the element of a power struggle, I do not want a domaneering man. I just want a dude who doesn't feel the need or desire to walk on eggshells for my cmfort but still wants to keep me comfortable, but not to the detriment of his own self esteem (if that makes any sense?).
My mom was very submissive and my dad was very overbearing and dominant. It did a number on my views of what a healthy partnership is supposed to look like. It made it really hard for me to respect either of them for their actions. I hated watching my mom just bow down to every unreasonable request made by my father. I hated my dad for treating my mom so subserviantly and I hated my mom for putting up with it.
I like equality in my relationship. 
Sometimes confrontataion is needed to resolve an issue. Sometimes you have to own your emotions and stand up for yourself, sometimes you have to give your spouse a pass. It is a give and take.
/my two cents.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Mrs.LonelyGal said:


> I just want a dude who doesn't feel the need or desire to walk on eggshells for my cmfort but still wants to keep me comfortable, but not to the detriment of his own self esteem (if that makes any sense?).


Makes perfect sense. Sounds like a great deal to me.

I support the dominance stuff, but I honestly think that many people put too much focus on it. Most of the guys here agree, conducting a healthy, happy, mutually beneficial relationship means you slide up and down the scale of alpha and beta.

The dominance piece needs to be discussed and have examples outlined because the concept is utterly foreign to some guys when they read about it for the first time. To me, being dominant is never about making your partner think less of themselves, it's about making them think better of you.


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## Mrs.LonelyGal (Nov 8, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Makes perfect sense. Sounds like a great deal to me.
> 
> I support the dominance stuff, but I honestly think that many people put too much focus on it. Most of the guys here agree, conducting a healthy, happy, mutually beneficial relationship means you slide up and down the scale of alpha and beta.
> 
> The dominance piece needs to be discussed and have examples outlined because the concept is utterly foreign to some guys when they read about it for the first time. To me, being dominant is never about making your partner think less of themselves, it's about making them think better of you.



I get that.
I think there are two fine lines here... being nice vs. being a doormat, and being dominant or assertive vs being a mean and controlling spouse.

I think it should be a sliding scale and a mix of both alpha and beta on either side of both genders, but I can definitely see how it is hard sometimes to stay w/i those parameters... especially if you don't have a good relationship to model it after.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Absolutely not, JustSomeDude. You only finish last if you're with someone who doesn't appreciate you and this will be true no matter who you are. I'm attracted to goodhearted, kind and patient men. I always have been. I am turned off by the opposite.

I think women like to think men have many layers and so a bada$$ might actually be a goodhearted man underneath and they like the idea that they, alone, have the ability to change this man and reveal his softer side. Women who don't feel obligated to try to change a stallion into a prince know enough to go towards an openly goodhearted man.

Having said all this, I agree with Deejo too.

It's not that you're nice, it's that you need to create a relationship that both excites and supports your wife. She needs to do the same. Unfortunately, resentment has started to build so you both also need to get past that first.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

For women, nice guys are keepers. It really makes their life easier. 

For men, being a nice guy sucks, since you are not happy. Building up all the frustration inside of your heart is not good, sooner or later, you are going to explode. 

Please don't think that women like bad men. Women always get hurt by bad men, and those bad men usually end up with nothing, no love, no true relationships. 

A man has to be responsible for himself and his family, a man has to be faithful and affectionate to his wife. A man has to be interested in his wife, knows what she likes and what she doesn't like. A man has to set his happy boundaries so he doesn't build up resentment in his heart. 

When you feel you are being pushed around, stop it, stop being pushed around by her, you don't need to be scared that she will act insane, better for her to be insane than you be insane, and she has to stop her inappropriate behavior anyway. You have to let her know what she can't do to you!!!


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

JustSomeDude said:


> I am tired of good guys finishing last. I don't like it because its true inside of a relationship and out. I consider myself a goodhearted person and never like confrontation. Seems like us, the "good guys", never get a break. So after venting a bit I have to ask this. Ladies, is being "good guy" or having huge hearts make us seem weak?


There is a difference between being conflict averse and a "good guy." Being afraid of confrontation means you don't fix things. They get buried or ignored. Being a good guy is a host of other things. 

I would not choose to be with someone who chose to conflict avoidance over problem solving.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I personally like good guys but seem to not pick them (something I'm sure Freud could figure out).

My husband used to be a "good guy", but said it didn't work out (ex-wife) and that women truly only like the bad guys. Don't know if I agree with that, but maybe it has some truth to it for some women.

Be true to who you are - there are women out there that like the "good guys", you just haven't found yours yet.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

They may "like" or even "prefer" the nice and/or good guys.

But, they "desire" the bad boys.

And, that's what this forum is largely about.


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## jamesa (Oct 22, 2010)

Conrad said:


> They may "like" or even "prefer" the nice and/or good guys.
> 
> But, they "desire" the bad boys.


I've said this before in another thread, but it is relevant. There are a lot of studies that show that women desire different men at different times. They tend to be more attracted to the 'bad boy' high testosterone type during the fertile period of their monthly cycle and reliable 'good guys' the rest of the time. No doubt the same is true of different times of their lives. 

The ideal that most women would have, without societal constraints, would be a good guy to provide and a high testosterone alpha male type to impregnate her and give her alpha male type kids.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

As the good guys all sit there with their thumbs up their asses - with no desire from their wives - while the bad boys take them at the opportune moment.

Works great.


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## jamesa (Oct 22, 2010)

Conrad said:


> As the good guys all sit there with their thumbs up their asses - with no desire from their wives - while the bad boys take them at the opportune moment.
> 
> Works great.


Or they are doing all the chores, to keep her happy, while she is having an affair with the tennis pro.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jamesa said:


> Or they are doing all the chores, to keep her happy, while she is having an affair with the tennis pro.


Or the personal trainer.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Jamesa,
If you cannot learn to shift smoothly from beta/alpha and back again pretty much in "real time" and without any visible gear grinding - then you are lost. Pure alpha will get you lots of sex and no real relationship. Pure beta will get you a BFF and date night with your hand. 

Read "married man sex life" it is the BEST treatment on this subject on the net.

P.S. - Your W most likely does NOT want to get her alpha action with someone else. But she may if you leave her no choice. Either way - a pure beta affect will get you little/no sex over time regardless of what she is/is not doing with her personal trainer.




jamesa said:


> I've said this before in another thread, but it is relevant. There are a lot of studies that show that women desire different men at different times. They tend to be more attracted to the 'bad boy' high testosterone type during the fertile period of their monthly cycle and reliable 'good guys' the rest of the time. No doubt the same is true of different times of their lives.
> 
> The ideal that most women would have, without societal constraints, would be a good guy to provide and a high testosterone alpha male type to impregnate her and give her alpha male type kids.


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## jamesa (Oct 22, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Jamesa,
> If you cannot learn to shift smoothly from beta/alpha and back again pretty much in "real time" and without any visible gear grinding - then you are lost. Pure alpha will get you lots of sex and no real relationship. Pure beta will get you a BFF and date night with your hand.


Absolutely. We need to do both. 

To do that we need to focus on ourselves though, not waste our time trying to dominate our women. We need to know our own minds and be confident in ourselves.


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

I know this is guy talk but let me point this out...leaving aside the primitive wiring that sometimes might interfere with our line of thought, we're all responsible mature people who've learned to think with our superior brain. 

As a consequence, i love my "beta" male just the way he is. That's because he sometimes leads me to believe he's alpha. Not through looking like a latin porn star. Actually, he's a bit overweight and keeps complaining about it while i drool and want to jump his bones every time i see him naked.

Why am i attracted to him and how do these alpha traits manifest? He can stand his own ground and doesn't "allow" me to be irrational, treat him like a child, tell him what to do etc....(in fact, when i was choosing a guy those were the traits i was looking for because i'm not the kind of nag or restrict). He's good at his job and has passion for it, he's playful and has a sort of boy-ish enthusiasm to some of his hobbies and he's learned to be a bit more aggressive in bed (note here that men don't need to be brutes to make their women desire them, they just have to be themselves and treat their wives like real live women rather than porcelain dolls that could break or be offended. Some men are taught to be so polite and gentle it tends to spoil all the attraction). 

Hmmm..what else? He's funny and he seems confident in doing things. I've been with him for nearly 10 years. I know he's afraid of stuff. He's expressed those fears to me. Us women don't demand a guy with no fear,no emotion, all closed up in himself. Rather, i personally like a guy who's willing to admit he's afraid then build up the courage to face the situation. 

That's all. Like MEM said, a small, small mix of alpha (which can be what i've mentioned above, it's definitely not acting like a jerk) will most likely keep your wife attracted. Having said that, my guy also cooks, likes to shop for drapes, furniture and makes most of the "girly" decisions in my house and that does not turn me off at all. It's actually more attractive considering that small dose of alpha traits i've mentioned above. 

For the sake of argument, add in too much alpha and you might freak your woman out and make her insecure. My guy did that (it's true, to blend in better in an all-male work environment), i instantly spotted the change and got hit by fear of abandonment, him cheating etc....

A pure alpha male is something probably no women (ok, perhaps immature, reckless women) want in this world beyond the first two three rolls in the hay. Some of us won't even go that far because we know there's a nice beta male around the corner that would prove equally passionate in bed and probably smarter outside it. To go even further, my general reaction to alpha males is thinking of primitive, non-evolved men who still go "og wants beer". I'm not trying to be offensive, i'm being honest and explaining how i see such men. Even if i have any physical attraction for them the realization of how simple they are will turn me off pretty quick and make me be repelled by them. Maybe that's just me and other women work differently. 

As for attraction, yes, i'm attracted to alpha males. I'm attracted to beta males. I'm attracted to older and younger guys. I'm attracted to some 18 year old guys strictly because that's about the time when my husband and i started having hot sex so i associate those young guys with young, hot sex the way i used to have. That's hardly the point. We're attracted to a whole slew of people. The easiest thing, by far, in life is to find someone you're attracted to to have sex with. You can do that with nearly anyone if you just want sex (without an emotional connection - and some people want this as well i'm not ruling them out). The hard part is to make the right choice in partner and 5-6-7 years after you're married to know each other and communicate well enough to keep that attraction alive. That's where i think most of us fail because attraction is by definition fragile for some people, prone to dropping because of repetition, resentment, not learning that you see only half the picture in people outside the marriage you're attracted to while you see the full picture of your spouse whom you know. 

Beta males are quite fine. They're the ones that will come up on the top in the days we live in...with one mention. They need to be mature. Not standing up for oneself, not being responsible, not giving yourself equal importance to your spouse and placing her needs on top of yours always aren't signs of beta or alpha, they in my opinion are signs of one not growing up enough and being able to stand on one's two feet. And that, yes, is unattractive for some women.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Nekko,

A very good post about explaining what we want from a man. 

A man should be a beta man who has some alpha traits in him, most traits beta, some traits alpha. The most important, sexually alpha, treat us women like women, horny women. You treat us in a horny way, then we become horny. You don't need to spoil us, you don't need to be afraid of us, you don't need to put up with us if you are really a wonderful man. Smart woman should know what kind of men to keep. 

Only immature women run after alpha men, and those immature women always get hurt badly by those pure alpha men. I stay away from pure alpha men. They are not attractive to me. I don't care how much money they make, I don't care how masculine they are, if they don't treat women respectfully, I have no sexual desire for them. I might have been fooled by them when I was young, definitely not when I was older and knew what I really wanted.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Conrad said:


> As the good guys all sit there with their thumbs up their asses - with no desire from their wives - while the bad boys take them at the opportune moment.
> 
> Works great.


A post I understand by Conrad ! This one is very very funny. :rofl: 

Yes, those bad boys will take you at all the opportune moments alright- these are what female fantasies are made of -but we must look at reality as they are also more likely to stray/cheat on their wives, more likely to not be pleasers if *they* are not feeling it, more likely to want to get off to porn, go into their caves more frequently, find any form of neediness from their wives as nagging & repugnant, pushing them away, be less affectionate when they aren't needing a sexual release, more prone to hang out with the guys, and more prone to aggressive out of control behavior. 

The ultimate for any woman is : find a VERY HORNY nice guy. Then you will truly have it all.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

SimplyAmorous said:


> The ultimate for any woman is : find a VERY HORNY nice guy. Then you will truly have it all.


Then once he bores you to tears and you can't stand the idea of having sex with him, he'll just follow you around like a puppy hoping you'll scratch behind his ear. He'll even keep coming back wagging his tail when you kick him. It's cute.


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## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Then once he bores you to tears and you can't stand the idea of having sex with him, he'll just follow you around like a puppy hoping you'll scratch behind his ear. He'll even keep coming back wagging his tail when you kick him. It's cute.


Exactly.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Awww come on, isn't that the man's fault because he doesn't want to face the possibility of loss and is willing to kiss bum to avoid it? I've seen this reversed too. I've seen women kiss a man's bum and do everything at his whim while he treats her like poo. I guess my point is that each person in the relationship has to retain respect for themselves. There have been times in my relationship where I've lost it and found myself behaving in ways I never thought possible until I realized I wasn't making myself happy or was helping make myself miserable and took my self respect back.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Deejo said:


> Then once he bores you to tears and you can't stand the idea of having sex with him, he'll just follow you around like a puppy hoping you'll scratch behind his ear. He'll even keep coming back wagging his tail when you kick him. It's cute.


OK - If I would have said a VERY HORNY "*good*" guy, I bet I would have not gotten this response. I paused before I typed "nice" cause I figured you all would jump on this word & trample the meaning I intended. I did not exactly mean NICE in the way we all perceive it here in the Men's Clubhouse. 

I guess there is rules about this 4 letter word here & I best keep it in context -only use "nice" to = passive, boring & pathetic. 

OK - better for me to say ---- a Good -sweet but very HORNY Guy - this beats the Bad Boy type anyday. That is my personal opinion.


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## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

That's a good clarification. I never liked having to reclassify myself as NOT a nice guy. Because generally speaking I am proud to be caring, affectionate, and empathic. However a "good guy" can have those qualities without the nice guy conotation! So I can be a good guy, and still have self respect!

LOL.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

SimplyAmorous said:


> OK - If I would have said a VERY HORNY "*good*" guy, I bet I would have not gotten this response. I paused before I typed "nice" cause I figured you all would jump on this word & trample the meaning I intended. I did not exactly mean NICE in the way we all perceive it here in the Men's Clubhouse.
> 
> I guess there is rules about this 4 letter word here & I best keep it in context -only use "nice" to = passive, boring & pathetic.
> 
> OK - better for me to say ---- a Good -sweet but very HORNY Guy - this beats the Bad Boy type anyday. That is my personal opinion.


I was just funnin'.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Deejo said:


> I was just funnin'.


I thought you might be but as you can see, others take this 4 letter word very seriously, just like Eagleclaws post having to stop & reclassify himself to not be associated with the term "nice". 

Kinda crazy how a few men's books have put an assult on the word "NICE". 

Need a Sticky to enlighten all who enter here the meaning of the word "NICE" -- fake, passive, boring, pathetic, manipulative, etc.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

What makes it more difficult is that your run of the mill 'Nice Guy' is going to flatly reject those connotations.

It's odd. The Nice Guy doesn't want to be a 'Bad Boy' yet when it comes down to it, you know exactly what you are getting with the Bad Boy. The Nice Guy isn't nearly as emotionally honest with himself or his partner.

I don't miss that guy.


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## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

I was kinda jesting too, but your right - I am trying to avoid classifying myself as a nice guy now.


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## jamesa (Oct 22, 2010)

Trenton said:


> Awww come on, isn't that the man's fault because he doesn't want to face the possibility of loss and is willing to kiss bum to avoid it? I've seen this reversed too. I've seen women kiss a man's bum and do everything at his whim while he treats her like poo. I guess my point is that each person in the relationship has to retain respect for themselves. There have been times in my relationship where I've lost it and found myself behaving in ways I never thought possible until I realized I wasn't making myself happy or was helping make myself miserable and took my self respect back.


It's not the same. Women find vulnerability in men a turn off but men aren't turned off by vulnerability in women. I for one love a vulnerable woman. Preferably a drunk one with low self-esteem.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

jamesa said:


> It's not the same. Women find vulnerability in men a turn off but men aren't turned off by vulnerability in women. I for one love a vulnerable woman. Preferably a drunk one with low self-esteem.


I get your point and see that it's true women can be more vulnerable with men and still be considered attractive. Can you keep the woman drunk indefinitely? Otherwise, you might wake up to some major problems.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

jamesa said:


> It's not the same. Women find vulnerability in men a turn off but men aren't turned off by vulnerability in women. I for one love a vulnerable woman. Preferably a drunk one with low self-esteem.


Drunk men work real well too - I'm the most beautiful, intelligent, loving and desirable wife when my hubby is drunk - sometimes wish he was drunk all the time.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Men are fixers by nature.


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## jamesa (Oct 22, 2010)

Trenton said:


> Can you keep the woman drunk indefinitely? Otherwise, you might wake up to some major problems.


See, I'm not a 'nice' guy, my plan would be to be long gone before she sobers up.

Interesting article on the alpha/beta thing:

Sexual selection: Hunkier than thou | The Economist


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

jamesa said:


> See, I'm not a 'nice' guy, my plan would be to be long gone before she sobers up.
> 
> Interesting article on the alpha/beta thing:
> 
> Sexual selection: Hunkier than thou | The Economist


You're giving reasons why women should stay away from those that are not nice guys, no?

Besides, your behavior can still have consequences for yourself regardless of how quick you leave...pregnancy, disease, etc.


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## jamesa (Oct 22, 2010)

Joking aside it is a cold moment for every man when he realizes (if he ever does) that showing weakness, showing vulnerability will eventually destroy his marriage. 

Unconditional love comes from your mommy, for your wife you have to be strong and to do that you have to hold something of yourself back, sad but true.

No doubt a lot of women would say that this is not true or is exaggerated, but they would be lying to themselves.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

Wow. I had no idea. I'm telling you, I have NO tolerance for the knuckle-dragging neanderthal anymore. Give me a nice guy any day. And yes, you can call him nice. Damn!, my SO is good. He manages to pull it all off seemingly effortlessly, and he's definitely a nice guy. To the OP..YESYESYES, nice guys do finish, and not always last!!!! I am the one finishing last, b/c I'm not going to let my "good" guy get away from me. No tennis coach, personal trainer, or whomever you thought might be hiding in a closet for me to ravage b/c I'm "bored". So-called "nice" guys can be real tigers when they need to be. 
You just haven't found the woman who can fully appreciate one. Give them time, they'll come around when they're sick and tired of the "bad boy" types. It takes awhile, and a few lessons learned. I just had to get smart.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

major misfit said:


> Give them time, they'll come around when they're sick and tired of the "bad boy" types. It takes awhile, and a few lessons learned.



I'm not sure how appealing to very many men is the advice of saying just wait until a woman is older and has had her fill of many "bad boys". :scratchhead:

Sloppy seconds is not much a consolation prize, if anything.


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## jamesa (Oct 22, 2010)

major misfit said:


> Wow. I had no idea. I'm telling you, I have NO tolerance for the knuckle-dragging neanderthal anymore. Give me a nice guy any day. And yes, you can call him nice. Damn!, my SO is good. He manages to pull it all off seemingly effortlessly, and he's definitely a nice guy. To the OP..YESYESYES, nice guys do finish, and not always last!!!! I am the one finishing last, b/c I'm not going to let my "good" guy get away from me. No tennis coach, personal trainer, or whomever you thought might be hiding in a closet for me to ravage b/c I'm "bored". So-called "nice" guys can be real tigers when they need to be.


You sound like you are trying to convince yourself. 

Please don't call your husband 'nice' it is emasculating. When my wife says I am her 'best friend' it makes me worry about the state of my marriage.


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