# Problems with step-children



## rubymoon

I have two grown step children. A SD of 22, and a SS of 24 years old. They are completely opposite to each other. 

SS is a very nice, polite party-boy. He gets by in college and doesn't work - not even in summer. He hates work. Also, he will not do a thing aroung the house - not even bring the trash can in! I end up cleaning his bathroom for him! And he always brings someone over - it can be just his gf or a bunch of drunk friends, who may stay at our house for days after the party is over. Last time he brought a girl and wanted to have her stay with us for 5 months. 

SD is a very aggressive and mean little creature. She provides a little help around the house (very little), and she doesn't bring any guests (probably because she has no friends), but she is very quick to yell and just get mean with anyone (including her father and I). She doesn't even need a reason for getting mad at us - bad mood is a reason enough! I ended up minimizing any communication with her because I got completely exhausted from disrespect and abuse. She doesn't go to college and works some very simple job. She is fine making minimum wage because she was raised by her mom that her father owes her and must pay her way. 

They both live most of the time with us. This summer we took a break from them though: SD went to live with her mom, and my husband paid for an apartment for his son and son's gf, so that they live separately (having yet another person in the house (gf) made it just too loud and difficult to be in the house). 

Now, provided their age, I am really not in the position of telling them how to live their lives, how to behave, etc. They are adults! My problem is that I feel guilty for not being able to build good relationships with them. I am tired of this feeling and sometimes I think to myself that maybe I should just leave them alone - as in them and their father. Let them live their life the way they want it, instead of getting in the middle of it with my feelings. I love my husband very much, but his kids wear me out!


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## Faeleaf

rubymoon said:


> I have two grown step children. A SD of 22, and a SS of 24 years old. They are completely opposite to each other.
> 
> SS is a very nice, polite party-boy. He gets by in college and doesn't work - not even in summer. He hates work. Also, he will not do a thing aroung the house - not even bring the trash can in! I end up cleaning his bathroom for him! And he always brings someone over - it can be just his gf or a bunch of drunk friends, who may stay at our house for days after the party is over. Last time he brought a girl and wanted to have her stay with us for 5 months.
> 
> SD is a very aggressive and mean little creature. She provides a little help around the house (very little), and she doesn't bring any guests (probably because she has no friends), but she is very quick to yell and just get mean with anyone (including her father and I). She doesn't even need a reason for getting mad at us - bad mood is a reason enough! I ended up minimizing any communication with her because I got completely exhausted from disrespect and abuse. She doesn't go to college and works some very simple job. She is fine making minimum wage because she was raised by her mom that her father owes her and must pay her way.
> 
> They both live most of the time with us. This summer we took a break from them though: SD went to live with her mom, and my husband paid for an apartment for his son and son's gf, so that they live separately (having yet another person in the house (gf) made it just too loud and difficult to be in the house).
> 
> Now, provided their age, I am really not in the position of telling them how to live their lives, how to behave, etc. They are adults! My problem is that I feel guilty for not being able to build good relationships with them. I am tired of this feeling and sometimes I think to myself that maybe I should just leave them alone - as in them and their father. Let them live their life the way they want it, instead of getting in the middle of it with my feelings. I love my husband very much, but his kids wear me out!


As someone who was badly hurt by a well-meaning, hard-working stepmom while growing up, I would say that if you can't focus on what you like and respect about your stepkids, you can't form a good relationship with them. They *will* feel your disrespect, dislike, and judgments, even if you think you are concealing that. As humans, we do NOT seek relationships with people who disrespect, dislike, or judge us. We don't want to be around them. It isn't pleasant. 

That is not to say that you are "wrong" about what your husband's adult children "should" be doing, or their bad character/personality traits. I don't know them, so I'll take your word for it that they are lazy, or mean, or whatever. That's fine, they are what they are.

But if you truly want a relationship with them, you have to be able to REALLY look past that. Focus on the positives, tell them what you like about them, dig down deep for empathy..._all the time_. 

Well, I guess the rule is 5x more positive moments than negative moments, but as a step-parent, I would argue that you are fighting an uphill battle to begin with, (_"Who does she think she is; she's not my mom!"_), so you need to shoot for at least 10x more positive moments than negative ones. 

And those negative moments really do creep up. Speaking as a stepkid, I can tell you. If you think no one sees you roll your eyes, or hears the edge of annoyance come into your voice, or reads any of the very, very subtle signs of unhappiness, trust me...we do. We are very keen to pick up on when our step parent doesn't like us. (Not to say you do any of those things. I'm only speaking from my own experience).

They may never be the wonderful people you'd like. Probably not, in fact. And if you said, you know what, that's a deal-breaker for me, I don't want a good relationship with kids who act like this, I'd support you in that, too. Just be prepared that if you *do *want this, you HAVE to be able to ignore the bad, and focus on the good...anything good.


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## rubymoon

Thank you Faeleaf for your advice. I am very sorry that you had a bad step mother. I cannot even imagine living with an adult who hurts you (intentially, emotionally or otherwise). 

However, from what I read in different articles and your post, it definitely takes more than I to be a SP. I cannot feel what I don't feel. I cannot constantly act in a way that is very different to what I feel, and do it so creatively enough to make it 100% believable. I cannot control every single movement of my face, eyes, hands... I DO TRY! But what it does at the end is that I start avoiding them! That's what happened to me in regard to my SD. I do realize that I have to be just like you described to be able to live with her. But I cannot do it all the time, 24/7, when I am sad, tired, worried, upset - after all, I am a human being, not a super woman! And I work full time and take care of the house, cook, etc... I, too, get tired and frustrated, short tempered, etc. I do realize that I am not allowed to any feelings other than "unconditional love" and "limitless support" when it comes to my SD - and that's why I end up avoiding her! The demand is greater than I can possibly take on. 

Also, just to explain, we (SD and I) NEVER fight. Not even once. It used to be that she would yell at me for a wrong word, or an advice that she didn't want to hear, or anything else she didn't like. And she'd put me down right in front of my own kid. And I would just go quiet to avoid drama. Then I got tired of it and pretty much stopped talking to her - not in a mean way, but in a deaf-mute way. I still say some completely general things about weather or traffic, but that's it! No opinion on her life, school, work, etc... - NONE! 

At the same time, I am watching my husband and my own son. My son is a teenager. My husband can always put my son in his place, tell him what he did wrong, etc. However, they have the best relationship ever! They hang out together, do things together, etc. My son helps around the house. He is far from perfect, but he is a KID and he accepted my husband as an authority! My step childred accepted me as a maid! 

Anyway, the only thing I can do is to stay away from them to not make matters worse. And that's what I do. And feel guilty about it... Vicious circle.


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## turnera

Your problem isn't those kids. It's their father.

Why aren't you expecting more from him?


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## rubymoon

turnera said:


> Your problem isn't those kids. It's their father.
> 
> Why aren't you expecting more from him?


For two reasons:

1. He tried everything he thinks is possible. Both of those kids grew up with their mothers and my H had very little influence on them while they were growing up. As soon as kids turned 19 (no more child support), their mothers sent them to live to their father. So, now we are dealing with two people who were raised by someone else. And my H tried a lot of different things, but nothing seems to work. He hasn't tried only one thing and that is kicking their a$$ really-really hard! That's what I would have done to my own child if he allowed that tone or kept brining drunk friends over. My H doesn't believe in "kicking a$$". He is hoping they will learn from our good example of not yelling, working, loving, etc. and become better people. But other than that, he did try a lot of different things for those kids, and nothing worked so far. 

2. My H has a rather demanding job. I really don't feel that it would be right to demand anything from him - he is usually too exhausted or too stressed to deal with this mess. I understand and don't want to be making his life even harder.


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## turnera

Sorry, I wasn't being clear. 

It's your husband's job to STOP SUPPORTING TWO ADULTS.

And it's your job to tell him that if he doesn't stop supporting two adults who have nothing but disrespect for him, you will not stay there and support HIM. He needs a swift kick in the rear to understand that he is HARMING them, not helping them.


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## PBear

If my ex wife kicked two kids (that I had no relationship with other than being their ATM), there's no way I would tolerate me or my spouse being disrespected in our own house. Being a doormat isn't going to teach the kids anything. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

"Son, daughter, you're adults now and you have two choices. You can get a job and start paying rent, or you can move out. Either way, this is my and my wife's home and you'll abide by our rules. You're free to move out any time."


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## frusdil

I'm a step mum too, and am very close with my stepdaughter, she's only 10. There is NO way in hades that I would tolerate this kind of behaviour.

They are in their early 20's ffs! No way hozay. Get jobs, do chores or get the hell out my house.

The same would go for my own bio kids.


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## NextTimeAround

Hurry up and do something before your own children become resentful.


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## CafeRed

I can certainly understand that you are probably feeling like you're walking on eggshells in a lot of ways, and you're trying to tread lightly in order to keep peace with your step-children. Do they ever talk about what the future looks like for them? Do they have plans to move out anytime soon? 

It seems to me that it would be much easier to develop a healthy relationship with them if they weren't living in your home. And at their ages, I would hope that they have a goal of moving out in the near future to start their lives and support themselves financially.

Have you heard of the book "Setting Boundaries with Your Adult Children" by Allison Bottke? I've read parts of it, and I've heard great things about it. She gives some great tips to parents who are going through similar circumstances as you. It might be worth checking out.

Hang in there. I hope things get resolved soon, and peace once again fills your home. Blessings to you!


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## turnera

Since he's unlikely to kick them out - he feels too guilty - the best step to take right now is to get him to agree one ONE LITTLE change. Doesn't matter what, just one change. Like, 'Husband, I need you to agree to make a change. For my sanity. Can we just agree that the kids have to put their dishes in the sink when they're done? I just need some show of support from you on this. I'll tell them, but when they refuse to do it, I need you to back me up and tell them you expect them to do it. Are you on board?'

Once this change gets accepted into the 'culture' at your home, you can start on another one. And then another. It's slow, but it can work, until they are being respectful without even realizing they've changed.


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## Bobby5000

GREAT COMMENT. ( I am a step-parent) 

"As someone who was badly hurt by a well-meaning, hard-working stepmom while growing up, I would say that if you can't focus on what you like and respect about your stepkids, you can't form a good relationship with them. They will feel your disrespect, dislike, and judgments, even if you think you are concealing that. As humans, we do NOT seek relationships with people who disrespect, dislike, or judge us. We don't want to be around them. It isn't pleasant. 

That is not to say that you are "wrong" about what your husband's adult children "should" be doing, or their bad character/personality traits. I don't know them, so I'll take your word for it that they are lazy, or mean, or whatever. That's fine, they are what they are.

But if you truly want a relationship with them, you have to be able to REALLY look past that. Focus on the positives, tell them what you like about them, dig down deep for empathy...all the time."

About me. I have a step-son who had some difficulty in school, used some substances, and didn't have a particularly clean room. A couple of tickets, earrings at 14, crazy girlfriends, and the like. 

Fast forward about a decade, he has a lovely wife and two children, earns somewhere upward of $175,000, has a major management position with a prominent company and a beautiful home. We worked hard together, I always loved him, he knew that, we struggle, it could be hard. 

Part of your family is your step-children and part of your marriage is to love them. Personally, I am not the easiest person to live with, and my wife puts up with a lot. One thing she never had to doubt was my love and commitment to our children (I only used the word step here). I am not saying it was always easy, having a 6-5 265 pound 15 year old have a temper tantrum isn't easy, but raising these children is my most important job in life.


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## Malpheous

In your first post you sound conflicted. You refer to them as step children and adults in the same post. They're adults.

In another posting you said the children/adults lived with their mothers and so they were raised by someone else and now that's a problem for your husband. I get your point. But here's mine (as a father that fought hard to stay involved and raise my daughter after divorce), that is his doing. There is no reason for him to have not been a father to his children. An involved parent.

He may have a demanding job/career. A parent finds the time.

Here it is. They're adults. He's your husband. They need to go. College? Dorms. I'm actually taking tomorrow off to move my daughter into the dorms at the ripe old age of 17(18 soon). Young adults do this. Kicking them from the nest is the best thing a parent can do for their young adults. When college is over reality is going to destroy those 2 if you don't.


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## rubymoon

Malpheous said:


> In another posting you said the children/adults lived with their mothers and so they were raised by someone else and now that's a problem for your husband. I get your point. But here's mine (as a father that fought hard to stay involved and raise my daughter after divorce), that is his doing. There is no reason for him to have not been a father to his children. An involved parent.


I don't want to go into personal details, but it wasn't something under his control. Just trust me on this: he wasn't closely involved because it was not an option. Just not an option at all. He was somewhat involved with his D, and he was greatly involved with his S only after the boy turned 14.


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## rubymoon

Bobby5000 said:


> but raising these children is my most important job in life.


Good for you, but you missed an important peace of information: my step children are adults! I cannot "raise" them - they are grown up.


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## turnera

Raising them is no longer an issue. Letting your husband let them run all over him is. What are you and he doing about developing a united front to make a change?


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## rubymoon

CafeRed said:


> I can certainly understand that you are probably feeling like you're walking on eggshells in a lot of ways, and you're trying to tread lightly in order to keep peace with your step-children. Do they ever talk about what the future looks like for them? Do they have plans to move out anytime soon?
> 
> It seems to me that it would be much easier to develop a healthy relationship with them if they weren't living in your home. And at their ages, I would hope that they have a goal of moving out in the near future to start their lives and support themselves financially.
> 
> Have you heard of the book "Setting Boundaries with Your Adult Children" by Allison Bottke? I've read parts of it, and I've heard great things about it. She gives some great tips to parents who are going through similar circumstances as you. It might be worth checking out.
> 
> Hang in there. I hope things get resolved soon, and peace once again fills your home. Blessings to you!


Thank you - you get what I am saying. So as some other posters on here. Thank you. When I see that other people share what I've been thinking and feeling, it makes my guilt susbside to common sense! 

To answer your questions:
No, they do not have any plans to move out other than maybe go live with their mothers. SD maintains some rudimentary job to not go to school. SS goes to college year after year to not get a job. 

I agree on developing healthier relationships if they live elsewhere. 

Thanks for the book reference - I will check it out.


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## rubymoon

turnera said:


> Raising them is no longer an issue. Letting your husband let them run all over him is. What are you and he doing about developing a united front to make a change?


Good question. Nothing. 

We are waiting for them to wake up one day. 

I know that my H's patience is not limitless, and one day he will snap and end this nonsense. But until then, I "hang in there".


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## turnera

But why? Why are you not addressing it?


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## rubymoon

turnera said:


> But why? Why are you not addressing it?


By "you" - do you mean I or my H and I?

I am not addressing it because I cannot. Imagine you have to make your neighbours do something differently. And they don't like you as it is. Chances are it's a doomed operation, and a much better solution to stay away or to move elsewhere. So, I am staying away. 

My H is not addressing it because he thinks it's not time yet. He thinks they need more time. Especially his SD - he believes she needs a few extra years compared to other kids to sort of "catch up" with the agenda. Something like that. So, we are just giving them time. 

I think that at the end, they will outstay their welcome here, and move in with their moms. Working hard is not something they are capable of. I give them that. I just don't want to be left responsible for their BS for the rest of my life.


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## PBear

You address it by talking to your husband and laying out your boundaries. If he doesn't want to deal with his children, you're free to move into your own place. You can even stay married, and he can come over for sleepovers, if you like. But you don't have to tolerate being disrespected in your own house. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rubymoon

PBear said:


> You address it by talking to your husband and laying out your boundaries. If he doesn't want to deal with his children, you're free to move into your own place. You can even stay married, and he can come over for sleepovers, if you like. But you don't have to tolerate being disrespected in your own house.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you. They (actually SD) did drive me once to offering him this arrangement. 

The problem I have is that I feel guilty that I was not able to build good relationships with them. And God knows I tried!!! Although, at this point, I don't want to try any more. 

SS just stays away from us - he is all grown up and has his own life. He has no interest in being with us other than free boarding. We simply do not have ANY relationship with him. I just don't want to clean after him for the rest of my life - this is my only problem with him. 

As to SD, we have BAD relationship. Everything started just great until she moved in with her dad. And I did try everything including attempts to just "buy" her out - taking her shopping, spas, paying for everything she wanted... And since I do realize all those things from other posts like "part of marriage is loving step kids", "part of love for my H is to love his children", "I must never express my dislike of her".... I drifted away from her. I literally AVOID any contact with her. I don't roll my eyes or express disapprovement because I just stay away and not care any more - whatever! I know this is bad and wrong, but it's better than being used as punch bag every time she is in a bad mood.


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## PBear

But don't you see? By offering that proposal and then not taking action on it, you're condoning the disrespect to you. So the kids don't have to change their behavior because your husband doesn't have to "man up". 

You can't force anyone else to change. All you can do is control what you'll tolerate. And you're showing them that you'll tolerate being disrespected. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rubymoon

PBear said:


> But don't you see? By offering that proposal and then not taking action on it, you're condoning the disrespect to you. So the kids don't have to change their behavior because your husband doesn't have to "man up".
> 
> You can't force anyone else to change. All you can do is control what you'll tolerate. And you're showing them that you'll tolerate being disrespected.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think they will ever change their behavior. It's just the way they are. Wanting them to change is demanding too much - I should just move out and be done with it. But I don't want to leave my H. So, I am just waiting for things to change this way or another. And I avoid disrespect by avoiding those who can demonstrate it.


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## PBear

rubymoon said:


> I don't think they will ever change their behavior. It's just the way they are. Wanting them to change is demanding too much - I should just move out and be done with it. But I don't want to leave my H. So, I am just waiting for things to change this way or another. And I avoid disrespect by avoiding those who can demonstrate it.


So this thread was just a vent, then? And that's cool if it is... Getting things off your chest is sometimes all you can do. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

Instead of you moving out, maybe the step-adult-children can.

Could you and your husband afford to rent a small apartment and move the step kids there? Tell them that you are covering rent for x number of months so that they know that they need to start working to support themselves.


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## turnera

I guess I just don't understand why you don't think that - or act like - you have as many rights as your husband, when it comes to making decisions in your MARRIAGE. 

YOU are unhappy. Because of them. But he won't do anything about it. Meaning, he values their approval over yours; he takes you for granted, assumes you aren't going anywhere, so he will continue to let you suffer, in the hopes that his kids will some day like him...because he knows you won't exercise your rights as an equal partner.


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## rubymoon

PBear said:


> So this thread was just a vent, then? And that's cool if it is... Getting things off your chest is sometimes all you can do.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Venting - yes. But most importantly, to validate my feelings that something is wrong, and I am not being a wicked step mother with unreasonable expectations. A lot what you and other folks said in this thread resonates with my own expectations and makes me feel better about my own self. 

As I said, I feel guilty and blame myself for not having good, close relationships with my SKs. I blame myself because I am older and should be wiser than they are. Yet, my mission failed. And that made me doubt myself. But this thread helped me see that I shouldn't take full responsibility for this situation. It was important for me.


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## rubymoon

EleGirl said:


> Instead of you moving out, maybe the step-adult-children can.
> 
> Could you and your husband afford to rent a small apartment and move the step kids there? Tell them that you are covering rent for x number of months so that they know that they need to start working to support themselves.


That's what we did with the son. When he decided that he will bring a girl to live with us, my H gave him money to rent an apartment. No one knows what will happen next - we will see. 

SD just went to live with her mom for the summer. We will see what happens next as well. 

We cannot afford renting two apartments for each of them! We are also paying for their cars, insurance, etc. My H's name is NOT Bill Gates 

Right now I am taking a break from all of it.


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## rubymoon

turnera said:


> I guess I just don't understand why you don't think that - or act like - you have as many rights as your husband, when it comes to making decisions in your MARRIAGE.
> 
> YOU are unhappy. Because of them. But he won't do anything about it. Meaning, he values their approval over yours; he takes you for granted, assumes you aren't going anywhere, so he will continue to let you suffer, in the hopes that his kids will some day like him...because he knows you won't exercise your rights as an equal partner.


Marriage has a lot of sides and angles. This is just one of them. I have a great H, who is also a great SF for my son. And I am in fact happy in my marriage. This side of it is problematic, but overall my marriage is a happy one. Otherwise, I would have left long time ago. There are a lot of great things about my H and our relationship. So, that's why I am still here trying to figure things out


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## phillybeffandswiss

rubymoon said:


> . I blame myself because I am older and should be wiser than they are. Yet, my mission failed. And that made me doubt myself. .


Remember when you were young? Wiser can't compete with "know it alls." I laugh at all the "knowledge" I had at 22, but realize the wisdom I lacked to reenforce it.


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## turnera

rubymoon said:


> Marriage has a lot of sides and angles. This is just one of them. I have a great H, who is also a great SF for my son. And I am in fact happy in my marriage. This side of it is problematic, but overall my marriage is a happy one. Otherwise, I would have left long time ago. There are a lot of great things about my H and our relationship. So, that's why I am still here trying to figure things out


I wasn't telling you to leave him. Not at all.

I was asking why you don't sit him down and say this isn't working for you and you need/want him to change the dynamics with his kids. If you have to, take him to a counselor and let the counselor explain that he's doing his kids no favors this way.


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## NobodySpecial

rubymoon said:


> That's what we did with the son. When he decided that he will bring a girl to live with us, my H gave him money to rent an apartment. No one knows what will happen next - we will see.
> 
> SD just went to live with her mom for the summer. We will see what happens next as well.
> 
> We cannot afford renting two apartments for each of them! We are also paying for their cars, insurance, etc. My H's name is NOT Bill Gates
> 
> Right now I am taking a break from all of it.


Wait a minute. Kids in their twenties? Why does he feel the need to pay for them AT ALL? Talk about failure to launch. And forget about what it is doing to you and your marriage. This is just wrong for these "kids" on so many levels. Parents need to have the sack to TELL their kids when they are being shmoes and set limits to help that understanding along. Poor "kids".


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## turnera

ruby, there is a TON of information out there that you could print out and read to him that describes how incredibly harmful and destructive it is to pay your young adult children's way. It sets them up for failure for the entire rest of their lives. HE IS HURTING THEM by doing this. Tell him that.


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## rubymoon

I would haver disagreed with you, folks, if either one of those kids was serious about school and future career. In that case, I'd have no problem with their dad paying their way. I have a newphew who is 21. The boy doesn't work because he studies 24/7, and in summer he volunteers for those organizations he wants to be employed at after he graduates. 

I know that you are right. But I cannot fix it. I read quite a bit of material on this subject, and it all is very clear - step parent must not assume responsibilities and rights of a real parent. Support - yes, acting as a real parent (as in telling them what to do and how) - no. So I don't. In the beginning, I tried by telling SD that she needs to go to college and by helping her register at the community college, etc - and she hates me for that because her "I cannot register" was just an escape from going to school, not a request for help! And I kept breaking that escape for her not realizing what I was doing. 

Anyway, I leave these kids as far as their school, work ethics, future... up to their real parents. They are in their 20's, and I cannot change them now. 

I did tell my H that it's not right, that they need to learn to be independent, etc... It doesn't work because of their mothers, who will keep giving them money, if we don't! I see that it's a very complicated situation, and stay out of it. 

Yes, I can start fighting with my H over how he should be raising his grown up kids to do good for those kids, and how he should be dealing with their mothers, etc... WHY would I ruin my marriage over that??? Seriously. No one cares about my opinion, those kids don't care about me... This is really not my battle.


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## rubymoon

PS. I have my own son, and I try to raise him right. That's MY job as a real parent.


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## turnera

rubymoon said:


> WHY would I ruin my marriage over that??? Seriously. No one cares about my opinion, those kids don't care about me... This is really not my battle.


What kind of marriage do you have if YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS in your own home? Seriously. Why do YOU not have the right to tell your HUSBAND that you are displeased with the way he is dealing with the two other adults in your home and is not listening to your needs? I just don't understand, I guess. But it's your marriage. If you aren't going to be an equal partner, it's your choice.


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## turnera

rubymoon said:


> PS. I have my own son, and I try to raise him right. That's MY job as a real parent.


 We aren't asking you to be their parent. We're asking you to be a real PARTNER in your own marriage.

Or did you just marry him so you'd have support in raising your own son?


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## rubymoon

turnera said:


> What kind of marriage do you have if YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS in your own home? Seriously. Why do YOU not have the right to tell your HUSBAND that you are displeased with the way he is dealing with the two other adults in your home and is not listening to your needs? I just don't understand, I guess. But it's your marriage. If you aren't going to be an equal partner, it's your choice.


I said that I told him that. Read carefully before jumping to accusations. And some things changed. It got better since we first started living all together. But we still have problems. And I don't expect those problems to get resolved over night. It's a process. My problem was not that we have issues with his kids. My problem was that I do not have good relationship with those kids. Do you really think that if I start demanding this and that, then my relationship with those kids will get better? Do you think that respect can be obtained by demanding it? For whatever reason, it worked out the way it worked out. We will work on the situation TOGETHER, instead of me yelling at my H for wrongdoings of adult people who happen to live with us under the same roof.


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## rubymoon

turnera said:


> We aren't asking you to be their parent. We're asking you to be a real PARTNER in your own marriage.
> 
> Or did you just marry him so you'd have support in raising your own son?


My reasons of marrying my H are outside of the scope for this conversation. And I AM a real partner, because I believe that my patience and support are way more valuable than any accusations and demands I can make in this situation. I believe that I am in this situation TOGETHER with my H. Your advice will split us apart because you think that I should demand things from my H that he cannot do at this time.


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## PBear

rubymoon said:


> My reasons of marrying my H are outside of the scope for this conversation. And I AM a real partner, because I believe that my patience and support are way more valuable than any accusations and demands I can make in this situation. I believe that I am in this situation TOGETHER with my H. Your advice will split us apart because you think that I should demand things from my H that he cannot do at this time.


Correction... What your husband CHOSES not to do at this time. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

rubymoon said:


> We will work on the situation TOGETHER, instead of me yelling at my H for wrongdoings of adult people who happen to live with us under the same roof.


Who's making assumptions? I never told you to yell at your husband.

I told you to discuss with your husband that it makes you uncomfortable to be in this situation and that you'd like him to consider your feelings, and DO something about it. Hardly yelling.

But whatever, it's your marriage. I'm really not trying to dis you, just understand why it's being tolerated in a supposedly equal marriage.

What was your original intent on bringing up this thread? In your first post, you were even mentioning leaving them AND him alone. Now it's no big deal because we're asking you to get outside your comfort zone?


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## turnera

rubymoon said:


> Your advice will split us apart because you think that I should demand things from my H that he cannot do at this time.


Really? Is he even going to a counselor to discuss this? It's clearly a dysfunctional and damaging situation all around, not to mention what it's teaching YOUR son. Why CAN he not do anything? If it's because he's guilty and afraid to upset his children, a counselor can teach him a lot to alleviate that.


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## rubymoon

turnera said:


> Who's making assumptions? I never told you to yell at your husband.
> 
> I told you to discuss with your husband that it makes you uncomfortable to be in this situation and that you'd like him to consider your feelings, and DO something about it. Hardly yelling.
> 
> But whatever, it's your marriage. I'm really not trying to dis you, just understand why it's being tolerated in a supposedly equal marriage.
> 
> What was your original intent on bringing up this thread?


I think I mentioned it before...

I feel guilty that I do not have good relationship with my SK. And since I am the one who is older and supposedly wiser than them, I take most if not all responsibility for the situation in terms of not having good relationship with them. I did try. Probably made a ton of mistakes along the way (tried helping with school, work, etc). But I failed. And I feel bad about it. So, I came here to see what other folks might think about the situation. Most of people agree that it's a problem. Most of people validated my own feelings and thoughts on this situation. As a result, I feel better. I no longer feel like a wicked step mom who expects impossible things from two youngsters. This doesn't mean that I will be telling them how to live their lives, but I just feel better and more confident for my own sake. It's like a reality check with outside viewers. 

I now see that good relationship with those kids is like friendship. Provided that they are adults, I cannot become their friend without them meeting me half way. They are not kids any longer. And if they don't want our relationship to be good, then no matter what I do, it will be bad. It's not under my control. 

That's what I wanted to validate by talking to others on here. Not to ask how to make them work or go to school, but to ask if the expectation of such is valid. 

My H is in fact a great man with much more patience than I posses. I let him decide the best approach with these kids. And he does listen to me and tries to fix things for me. But it's impossible to turn a 20+ years adult into something he/she is not over night. He is working on it. And I stand by him. We will see how the situation unfolds and what we will do next about it.


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## rubymoon

turnera said:


> It's clearly a dysfunctional and damaging situation all around, not to mention what it's teaching YOUR son.


We got married when my son was already a teenager. At first he mimic-ed some of their behavior, and we had a few "talks". Now my son knows that different standards apply to him - he is not allowed to have such bad grades, he is not allowed to have messes in his room, etc, etc. He is perfectly fine with it! He does understand that he is my helper, and even more so because he is the only one to help. He is old enough to understand the situation right. He is actually learning a lot from this situation.


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## rubymoon

PBear said:


> Correction... What your husband CHOSES not to do at this time.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why does it matter if he choses or cannot do it? What difference does it make whether it's a choice or an inability to do something?? No means No. He thinks they need more time. Maybe in fact they do. I am giving them more time. Time will run out eventually.


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## PBear

rubymoon said:


> Why does it matter if he choses or cannot do it? What difference does it make whether it's a choice or an inability to do something?? No means No. He thinks they need more time. Maybe in fact they do. I am giving them more time. Time will run out eventually.


Apparently there's no difference to you. In that case, enjoy your life, and I hope it gets better for you sooner rather than later. 

To me, the difference is this... Let's say your husband was sick with a serious illness that caused hardship for both of you. Now, if there was no treatment or cure for it, then you both have no choice but to suck it up and accept it. That's part of the "in sickness and in health".

On the other hand... Let's say that the illness was treatable, but your husband, for whatever reason, CHOSE not to get treatment. I think that I would be frustrated and develop resentments towards my partner for putting us both through the stress and hardship of the situation. 

But if you're happy with things, that's all that counts. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

rubymoon said:


> Why does it matter if he choses or cannot do it? What difference does it make whether it's a choice or an inability to do something?? No means No. He thinks they need more time. Maybe in fact they do. I am giving them more time. Time will run out eventually.


IDK, when you first came here, you were discussing being at wit's end and wondering if you should lose your husband over it. Now you're singing his praises and saying it's all not that big of a deal. I guess because we took your husband to task? 

It's your life. I just hope you really understand how you really feel; because you seem to be all over the place.


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## Malpheous

I let this go a few days, I know. But I guess I wasn't clear about my thoughts in my first posting.

You still refer to them as both adults and children. They are one or the other. 

Adults live in their own places that they pay for. Children are told what to do by their parents and they follow those rules.

Kick... Them... Out. You say the son is out in an apartment and daughter at mom's. Neither should be returning unless they're able to follow the rules. They're adults. Stop paying their way. If they can't afford their own places, then perhaps they can buddy up and learn a lesson about depending on each other, and communal living in society.


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## rubymoon

PBear said:


> Apparently there's no difference to you. In that case, enjoy your life, and I hope it gets better for you sooner rather than later.
> 
> To me, the difference is this... Let's say your husband was sick with a serious illness that caused hardship for both of you. Now, if there was no treatment or cure for it, then you both have no choice but to suck it up and accept it. That's part of the "in sickness and in health".
> 
> On the other hand... Let's say that the illness was treatable, but your husband, for whatever reason, CHOSE not to get treatment. I think that I would be frustrated and develop resentments towards my partner for putting us both through the stress and hardship of the situation.
> 
> But if you're happy with things, that's all that counts.
> 
> C


I see what you are saying. But in my mind, it's a bit more complex than that. Technically, yes, he can kick them out. But how will he feel about that? And how will he feel about me if I make him do that? 

I believe that if he is not ready to do that for whatever reason (feels guilty, obligated, doesn't see what he is doing, etc), then he is just not ready. And I shouldn't be pushing him there. 

My patience is not endless, of course. I tolerate it now, but it doesn't mean that I will tolerate it forever. I think I should give everyone some time to come down to their senses. At this point, I am not even sure how much time I am giving them. But if at some point, I feel that enough is enough, THEN I will sit down and have those conversations and make those demands you are talking about. 

So, in my mind, if my H is not emotinally ready to cut the courd yet, then it's just the same thing as saying that "he cannot". Not because this option is not available for him, but because he is not ready yet.


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## rubymoon

turnera said:


> IDK, *when you first came here, you were discussing being at wit's end and wondering if you should lose your husband over it*. Now you're singing his praises and saying it's all not that big of a deal. I guess because we took your husband to task?


WHERE did you read that?!?! 

Yes, I vented a bit that I am having troubles with my SK, but where did you get that I was thinking of losing my H???


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## turnera

rubymoon said:


> WHERE did you read that?!?!
> 
> Yes, I vented a bit that I am having troubles with my SK, but where did you get that I was thinking of losing my H???





> I am tired of this feeling and sometimes I think to myself that maybe I should just leave them alone - as in them and their father.


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## rubymoon

Malpheous said:


> You still refer to them as both adults and children. They are one or the other.


I refer to them as step "kids" because there is no such term as step adults.  In relation to me, they are SK - it's a term I use to define how we are related. But they are adults. It's like a woman and a wife. You wife is a woman. Those adults are my step kids. 



Malpheous said:


> Kick... Them... Out. You say the son is out in an apartment and daughter at mom's. Neither should be returning unless they're able to follow the rules. They're adults. Stop paying their way. If they can't afford their own places, then perhaps they can buddy up and learn a lesson about depending on each other, and communal living in society.


I agree. My H already made it clear to his D that she won't be able to return unless she changes her attitude. He explained to her in a very nice tone that she is being rude, moody, etc, etc. And that it makes our life much less pleasant. Usually, she comes back saying that he mother kicked her out and she has nowhere to live now. It's not true (they just have a fight - her mom is just as moody and mean), but no one has a heart to kick out a sobbing girl telling horrible stories about her life with her mom. And then everything starts all over again. We will see how it works this time.


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## rubymoon

turnera said:


> I am tired of this feeling and sometimes I think to myself that maybe I should just leave them alone - as in them and their father.


*You took it out of the context!!! Did you even read the rest of it???*

I was saying that I am tired of feeling guilty for not being able to build good relationship with those kids. And I feel like I am damaging something that is not mine - relationship between a father and his kids. Hence, maybe, I should just leave them be instead of creating even more problems for them with my hurt feelings. I was saying that maybe it would be right to walk away to make THEIR LIFE better. 

READ first. Really. This is not the first time you misread something and make wrong judgements.


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## PBear

I read it as you were thinking of leaving him too...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rubymoon

Not in the context turnera presented. 

I said: "My problem is that I feel guilty for not being able to build good relationships with them. I am tired of this feeling and sometimes I think to myself that maybe I should just leave them alone - as in them and their father. Let them live their life the way they want it, instead of getting in the middle of it with my feelings. I love my husband very much, but his kids wear me out!"

turnera: "when you first came here, you were discussing being at wit's end and wondering if you should lose your husband over it. Now you're singing his praises"

Anyway, I never said that I have a bad H worth leaving. I was discussing my own issues. Not him being a bad H, or a bad dad for that matter.


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## PBear

I'm just telling you the way I read it, whether you intended it or not. I read it as you thinking you might as well walk out and leave them to their dysfunctional relationship. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rubymoon

I'm saying that I never complained about my H in this thread. I am not singing him praises just now or all of a sudden. I said it many times that he is a good H.


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## phillybeffandswiss

rubymoon said:


> Not in the context turnera presented.
> 
> I said: "My problem is that I feel guilty for not being able to build good relationships with them.* I am tired of this feeling and sometimes I think to myself that maybe I should just leave them alone - as in them and their father.* Let them live their life the way they want it, *instead of getting in the middle of it with my feelings.*


 You specifically point out all of them and then say "let them live their life the way they want." Sorry, I thought you were venting and contemplating leaving as well. I'm the fourth person who read it that way. 

Who said your husband was bad? I'd say more people are calling him weak for spoiling ADULTS and allowing this disrespect in your marriage.


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## turnera

rubymoon said:


> I'm saying that I never complained about my H in this thread. I am not singing him praises just now or all of a sudden. I said it many times that he is a good H.


I never said you complained about him. I said that, when we tried to point out what HE could be doing differently - that would result in YOU feeling better in your OWN home, you jumped to defend him and his (lack of) action, as though he's doing nothing wrong. And the grand consensus is that, yeah, he IS doing something wrong. He's allowing this out of his guilt and because of that YOU are unhappy, HE is unhappy, and they will EVENTUALLY be unhappy when they realize the big bad world won't support them the way daddy is doing. That is all. 

If you were just venting, fine, it could have been made more clear you weren't looking for advice on how to fix it. Good luck.


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## rubymoon

turnera said:


> I never said you complained about him. I said that, when we tried to point out what HE could be doing differently - that would result in YOU feeling better in your OWN home, you jumped to defend him and his (lack of) action, as though he's doing nothing wrong. And the grand consensus is that, yeah, he IS doing something wrong. He's allowing this out of his guilt and because of that YOU are unhappy, HE is unhappy, and they will EVENTUALLY be unhappy when they realize the big bad world won't support them the way daddy is doing. That is all.
> 
> If you were just venting, fine, it could have been made more clear you weren't looking for advice on how to fix it. Good luck.


I guess it was a misunderstanding on both sides then. I apologize. 

Yes, I agree with everything you say. Yes, it's lack of my H's actions and decisions for whatever reason that allows this situation to go on. I am not unhappy per say, but this part of our marriage is problematic and will require changes sooner or later - it cannot go on like this forever. 

The important part that I got from this thread is that I am not insane to expect adult kids to be independent and helpful, or at least to be on the way there, which is not the case here. This self-validation helped me a lot. Thank you for your feedback!!


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## ILoveSparkles

rubymoon said:


> That's what we did with the son. When he decided that he will bring a girl to live with us, my H gave him money to rent an apartment. No one knows what will happen next - we will see.
> 
> SD just went to live with her mom for the summer. We will see what happens next as well.
> 
> We cannot afford renting two apartments for each of them! We are also paying for their cars, insurance, etc. *My H's name is NOT Bill Gates*
> 
> Right now I am taking a break from all of it.


No maybe not. But your husbands name sounds like Door Mat. And you are Step Door Mat. These kids are in their 20's - the only reason they are not contributing to the household and living free is because they are ALLOWED to. Wanting people to stay for days or asking if someone can stay for months is completely unacceptable - yet it is allowed. It's time to "lay down the law" and give them a deadline to get jobs and find their own places - and support themselves withput parental help. You and your husband are letting them take advantage of you and they will continue to do so as long as you allow it to happen.

Sorry this is harsh, but it is how I see things.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Wow, I missed that post.


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## rubymoon

Yes said:


> And you are Step Door Mat.


Lol! I like that.


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## Omego

Why do you feel guilty for not getting along with disrespectful, poorly brought up children/adults? Why should you clean up after a 24-year old man who is not even your child? Why should you let a 22-year old bratty young woman poison your home environment?

Your H will tolerate nearly anything from them because they are his children. They're not your children and as you pointed out, they have no feelings for you whatsoever.

You are the victim in this situation and they know it. 

Take a stand. Take a risk. it's your emotional health and well-being which is at stake as well as that of your own son.

It's YOUR house. YOUR rules. If they don't like that, they are free to go.


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