# Stuck On Emotional Speed Bump Advice Wanted



## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

As most know, my 12 year relationship, 4 year marriage ended when my wife divorced me. We've had our hearing and it's all over now and becomes official in just a few months. 

I'm proud of the work I've done for myself and continue to do. I'm discouraged by my dating prospects however and feel stuck.

I'm a Christian. I belong to two dating sites. One I don't take seriously because the women there appear to be delusional with unrealistic expectations, not to mention their entitlement mentality and over inflated sense of value. Don't all chubby divorced mom's deserve a millionaire with six pack abs, a BMW and a passport?

The other site is a Christian site. I've met a very nice woman (Smiles) who seems interested in me. Smiles is attractive, has a good career, and claims to be active in her church. What's the problem? Me! Smiles is a widow with 2 young kids and she lives in the city me and Scrooge used to live in. 

I'm getting uneasy feelings about this. I tried being a step father before with Scrooge and it didn't work out. I don't want to lose out on Smiles, and I know her circumstances are different, but I'm worried about investing time with a woman with children and she turns out to be unsupportive and has no clue about building a blended family like Scrooge. 

My brain knows she's not Scrooge, but my spiderman senses are sounding off. What does this mean? Too soon? Too similar? Keep working on me and my goals? Should I wait? 

We email all the time. I know Smiles is waiting for me to ask her out. I'm conflicted and a little afraid. I feel like I'm 15 again. I'm also attracted to a lady at my gym (Sarah Palin) and one of my classmates (Book Worm) in grad school. It's been from one extreme to another too quick. I'm overwhelmed. 

Any thoughts? My gut is saying slow down. Is this normal? 

Thanks


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Listen to your gut.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I think you're over-thinking things. You're talking about going on a date, not getting married. And just because things didn't work out with your ex, that doesn't mean you'll have the same issues with Smiles. If you keep reflecting your ex's behavior on anyone new, you're in for a very long miserable future. Perhaps that should be your sign that you shouldn't be dating anyone right now?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

difficult to properly analyze a situation...until it happens

it's a dating site, not a wedding site


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## Gonnabealright (Oct 24, 2013)

Its fun isn't it. Just be glad your rid of your ex. Have fun on a date and see where it goes. Date as many women as you can, juggle them, bathe in them. It's dating...take them out, show them a good time and go home. If you had a good time, ask them out again. 

Maybe get another hobby. Try not to obsess on women.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

I think when you get to the 5-10 date mark make sure you go on a double date, supper, event with YOUR friends around. Trust your friends guts whether this is a good prospect for dating. 

Just another way to be held accountable and use the judgement of people that care about you, have your interests at heart. Yes, it's an audition for her.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Thanks for all the input.

I've been thinking more about it....and maybe thinking too much about it.

I'm going to sleep on it.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Just listen to your gut instincts, slow down, and enjoy the ride! What do you really need to be in an all-out rush for?*


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Pictureless.....if this site is Christian Mingle

my X, Window Cork may still be on there

if she asks "do you like puppies" do Pink Floyd

and Run like He!! :rofl:


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## AFPhoenix (Dec 24, 2013)

Pictureless: I know how you feel...but the others are right, it's not a marriage proposal, it's a date. For me, it's been a long time since I've dated and I'm a little gun shy too. But I'm having fun...my advice is to have fun too without compromising who you are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

Date all three of them.  Go out, have fun. It's a date, not a LTR. 

Don't over think it.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Thanks all for the advice. 

I've decided to "do" nothing and just let things happen naturally. And I'm not limiting myself to just one person or being in a relationship for the sake of not being single. 

I'm not going to game or lie, but I'm going to do something called dating. I forgot about dating. Sounds like fun. 

I'll ask Smiles out for a date the next time I talk to her. She's a sedan; comfortable, practical, dependable. 

I'm not going out of my way for the Sarah Palin Clone. She's a sexy sports car. Nice to have, I'd love to take it for a spin, but don't really need it.

Book Worm is out. I realized I'm not really interested in her.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

the SP clone sounds like the type that's "in the shop" more than on the road


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

i think a week with SP might do you a lot of good if she likes to get out on the highway and show off her horsepower


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Very tired. Class went long last night and didn't get home until late. I've gone from an open calendar to having too much on my plate. Gym tonight. 

This was the first night of a different class and I met another incredible woman- Black Dalihia. After 12 years with Scrooge, I've forgotten that there are other women on the planet. BD is very intelligent, well spoken, and extremely attractive. During class I noticed her looking at me a couple of times; when I turned my head to look at her she quickly looked away. She smiled at me a couple of times too. But during break in the corridor as we passed each other I said a confident hello and she looked down at the carpeting and squeaked a barely audible hi. Not sure how I read her yet but she's high ranking to me.

I asked out Smiles and she said yes! We're both very busy until next weekend. She also offered me her cell number to text her. I need suggestions because I don't want to text her yet; we haven't even met. I don't want to run out of things to talk about before meeting. Any way to decline without looking like I'm not trying to hide, avoid, or next her?

About our date: I can't believe I'm asking but it's been so long and I have concerns. Should I take the lead and say we're doing xyz, or should I ask her what she wants to do? Should I pick her up or meet her? She's a widow so I'm sure she has concerns and I respect that, but how should I find out without appearing like a blue pill nice guy? Is worrying about this beta?

SP Clone is out. After thinking about it and reading suggestions, if I was going to get a sports car I might as well get the latest model and BD is that and more. BD has Smiles beat with her sleek, streamlined trim package but so far I think Smiles is the smartest choice for my needs. But then again BD is very intellectually stimulating. I'm hoping Smiles is as engaging as BD appears to be.

Life is so good!


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

you plan the date, women love when it's done

make it unique, not $$, not low frills 

if a female likes your company, they do not give two chits where

you go or do. but first dates are first impressions... dress 

accordingly


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> you plan the date, women love when it's done
> 
> make it unique, not $$, not low frills
> 
> ...


Chuck,

What's your opinion about her wanting me to text her?

What if I suggest dinner and she balks at the restaurant choice?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

IF you did not previously say when you would text her

I would wait three days prior, but if you have email correspondence 

continue that. But let HER bring it up, until three days prior. She

is aware you are going out, confirmed the day, just need confo on

date set in stone minus life altering event. If she asks 'where we 

goin", just recommend her on how to dress. Mix it up, dinner yeah 

but say a museum or book fair...something YOU like. Make it 

interesting for her, even in she does not like it. This impresses 

females. But always include dinner.....or you will be "done before

dawn" LOL


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## HikingZion (Mar 28, 2014)

I would definitely have an activity/location in mind, but certainly be open to a change of plans if she suggests one. And meet her, don't pick her up -- that's just good sense in online dating, you don't want people to know where you live until you get a sense that they aren't crazy


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

A lesson and a funny story that happened yesterday at my gym. 

I got there mid afternoon and the place was empty. I did my weight training and then an hour on the bike. By the time I was done two older women came in and took the bikes to my left. When I was done I got off my bike and got some wet paper towels to wipe down the machine. Mind you, I was totally focused on my workout and I had my headphones on.

So I took off headphones and started cleaning my bike when I heard one female saying to the other how she knew he was a nice guy. I thought they were talking about some man they knew. I was done and started walking away when I heard one of them call out "excuse me."

The one closest to me thanked me for cleaning up the gym equipment after using it. Then they both started grilling me on my exercise routine, complimenting me on my manners, asking about where I work, and telling me how wonderful I am. One told me she was a doctor and asked me what I did for work. They were hitting on me, and they were not shy about it. They were aggressive and direct.

Sounds good, right? I'm in my mid forties, and they were easily late fifties, early sixties. I chatted with them for a few minutes to be polite, but then I told them I had to go. One still kept trying as I turned around and walked away.

I learned what it must be like to be a woman who is always dealing with men flirting with her. The boldness off them was startling. I wasn't feeling very attractive, I was dressed in my work out clothes, and I was all gross and sweaty. They didn't care. They seemed desperate and it was a turn off.

I'm glad I didn't approach SP Clone. If I ever decide to try I know now that timing and approach is way more important than the opening.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Had a nice long talk with Smiles tonight. We're meeting up tomorrow for our first date.

She asked a little about Scrooge. I said it's complicated...

But she pressed me so I gave her a two minute snap shot. It didn't even phase her. So we talked more than I took the lead and said this is what I want to do tomorrow, are you coming? She said yes!

Then she wanted to talk a little more but I politely ended the conversation. 

Me: It's late, I worked hard and I had night school. I'm tired.

Smiles: no problem

I love TAM. Thanks to all for the help, advice, and support.

I have no expectations and that's okay. I'm going out tomorrow night with a real cutie!!!!!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> Had a nice long talk with Smiles tonight. We're meeting up tomorrow for our first date.
> 
> She asked a little about Scrooge. I said it's complicated...
> 
> ...


No more talk about Scrooge.

"It's complicated" will suffice.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

if she brings up Scrooge on the date several times

red flag....... signs of a co-dependent in waiting


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Smiles is awesome. Had a great time talking with her. She's so easy going and intelligent.

As we talked about our lives She mentioned her late husband a few times and I couldn't help mention Scrooge, although I didn't refer to her by name, I referred to her as my ex wife. 

I know what you all advised. I didn't "talk" about her...at least I hope not. Anyway I'm tired of overthinking and worrying about conversations. Tonight I felt relaxed and at ease. I had fun. It was great.

She's very stylish. Dressed well, better looking in person, and she's got a great figure. But more important, she's decent, smart, and seems to have strong convictions. 

For a first meet up I think it went well. I asked her if she would like to go out on a real date and she said yes. So we'll most likely go out again next Friday. At least I hope so. We're both busy and she's got two young boys. 

No goodbye hug or kiss. I didn't want or try. It didn't feel right.

Many times I wanted to hold her hand or put my arm around her but I didn't. I don't know. I wanted to, but it didn't feel right. In my younger days it was about scoring. I don't want just that anymore.

I've never been here before. I never thought I'd be starting over at this point in my life. I'm a little rusty; it's been a long time since I dated. I'm kind of numb honestly. No expectations. No rush. One day at a time.

Normal?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Dating is like riding a bike, once you learn...ah you know what I mean

Take things at your pace, you're wading into strange waters

Sometimes certain eye contact at the end of the date is better than a kiss

your first time out was absolutely normal

set a 2nd date, you plan it, go where you are comfortable

if she is unfamiliar with where you go, fill her in

she will enjoy it, she is learning about you


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## RSFWID (Jun 5, 2013)

Pictureless said:


> Smiles is awesome. Had a great time talking with her. She's so easy going and intelligent.
> 
> As we talked about our lives She mentioned her late husband a few times and I couldn't help mention Scrooge, although I didn't refer to her by name, I referred to her as my ex wife.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you had a good time, you deserve it. Keep up the good work brother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Just had breakfast with my Safe Friend and mentor.

I told him about my date with Smiles and he said he was happy for me. He asked me how I'm doing with Scrooge and do I still think about her. I said of course I do; I still love her and think about her everyday but I know it's over.

He asked me what's my problem then? If Smiles wasn't interested she wouldn't be there. I told him it's me and what I've been ingrained with: Smiles earns triple what I do. She doesn't need me and I have nothing to offer her.

Safe Friend told me I have to stop letting the world have a field day with me. What I make and what I have means nothing to a good woman. He said if she's a real Christian she's going to want more than money from her man.

He's right but I'm having a hard time accepting that. Especially considering how Scrooge used me--she got to the point where she earned enough to be self sufficient--and therefore no longer wanted me. She really destroyed my sense of value and worth. I'm more than a paycheck and I have to remember that. 

I have to remember who I was before Scrooge. I've never been rich by earthly standards but I've always been satisfied. I have values and beliefs and I can't suspend them out of fear of being alone. 

I should be happy this morning but I'm not. I'm feeling sad and confused. Maybe I'm just tired. I wish life had an instructions manual.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

keep in mind, money is a drug

just like cocaine, some people can never have enough


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## RSFWID (Jun 5, 2013)

Pictureless said:


> Just had breakfast with my Safe Friend and mentor.
> 
> I told him about my date with Smiles and he said he was happy for me. He asked me how I'm doing with Scrooge and do I still think about her. I said of course I do; I still love her and think about her everyday but I know it's over.
> 
> ...


A good man has his integrity and that's worth more than money. Don't worry about how much she makes and the fact she doesn't need you. Do you want a women who needs you or wants you? My friend you have giving me some very good advice. Please take mines. I know crap stinks right now and that's because I know personally I did a lot of BS in my M, but you have met someone who seems to like you for you That's all you should focus on. Baby steps, enjoy being around someone who wants to be around you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> keep in mind, money is a drug
> 
> just like cocaine, some people can never have enough


Understood. What's worrying me is typical fear of the unknown and what I cannot control. I have to work on this.

I have to accept without resentment that Smiles makes more money than me. If she rejects me for that reason then it's on her, not me.

Buying or using love for safety and provisioning is Scrooge-like.

Yet wouldn't it be nice guy/beta/codependent to be weaker financially to a woman?

It shouldn't be if she's a genuine Christian and is not overly concerned with such things. I'm going to have to patiently find out.

I wouldn't be dependent on Smiles, I want to be wanted. How do I communicate this without looking...wimpy? My whole life I've been taught that men are supposed to signal that they can provide and take care of women. Now I'm finding that women don't need to be taken care of.

Does this make sense?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I've spoke several times on fear of the unknown

that and "what if it was better 2nd time around" with my 1st and 2nd love

ended up wasting a good four years total

I faced a dark tunnel with a future unknown in my life four times

each time, the darkness faded and the light appeared

what followed was some of the greatest times in my life

we all fear the unknown, at least we "know" familiarity,

even if it kinda sucks. Remember, journey more important than destination

As far as money, some of the people I know in the worst

financial shape, make a boatload of money. It's not how much you 

make, it's how you utilize it. 

I'm assuming you do not want a "sugar momma" :lol:

I know you feel you are a Mr. Nice Guy being you are a Christian

many get caught up in that, just allow others to know "not to 

mistake your kindness as a weakness". 

I believe in our Creator but have multiple 

issues with organized religion...therefore I say I am spiritual. 

Two level headed adults with no ulterior motives would not view salaries

in a negative light. Yes easy for me to say being in the country, very low cost

of living in my area. 

Your character and charisma under fire is what she is searching for

try to get the money situation off your mind

you and Smiles are just starting to date

not pick out wedding attire


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

I've learned there's a fine line between Christianity and codependency. 

After yesterday's posts I was feeling real low. Then I got final divorce notice in the mail. 

But then I got a text from Smiles and we ended up flirting all night. It's so wonderful talking to a woman who is knowledgable and educated. 

This morning in church I got another message about Scrooge through other people and the sermon.

I hope everything works out for you Scrooge; I hope all is well and that you have a good life. You're not evil but what you did was wrong. I didn't deserve my wounds. I forgive you for my sake. Best of of luck to you.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Forgiveness is more for you, to move on

if Scrooge continues to run from / avoid the conflictions of her life 

she will never realize her misgivings... and will forever be lost

hopefully one day, she will....and ask you for forgiveness

Don Henley - The Heart of the Matter (Live at Farm Aid 1990) - YouTube


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> Forgiveness is more for you, to move on
> 
> if Scrooge continues to run from / avoid the conflictions of her life
> 
> ...


I doubt she will. The closest she ever came to asking for forgiveness was a childish "sorry" with no emotions or remorse. 

She's not stupid even though she always claimed that she wasn't as smart as me. I see now how she used that as an excuse for her bad conduct during our relationship. 

We even took a forgiveness class together through the church during our S and false R. I see now she was just going through the motions. Another reason to forgive her, not for who she is, but what she does.

Snakes eat frogs. That's what they do. You can't hate them for being a snake, but you can dislike them because of their diet.

I have to hold Scrooge responsible for her actions and not blame Smiles or anybody else. Forgiveness gives me back my present and future. It doesn't invite reunion. It doesn't pardon past wrongs, it just let's them go so the wounds can scab over heal.

Now, how about some Rod Stewart? Ah the rhythm of my heart is beating like a drum...


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

So tomorrow night Smiles and I are going out to eat. Last week we met for coffee and we talked for 3 hours. I asked her for a real date and she said yes.

Between then and now we have both texted each other equally; by that I mean each of us have initiated and ended conversations. We've also talked on the phone last night. 

We're both very busy. She's a widowed mom with 2 young kids, she works a condensed night shift, and she's very dedicated to her church and ministry group. 

I work full time days and have grad school two nights per week. I'm committed to my diet and exercise routine and gym, and I attend bible study and morning worship on Sundays. 

I'm working on keeping my patience in check. It's a date not a wedding. And I'm reminding myself to be mindful of our circumstances. We both lost the ones we loved; her by untimely death, me by rejection and divorce. 

I'm guarding against her not really being ready to move on, and I will try to communicate my genuine interest in her; she's not a role in the hay or a rebound. She's worth waiting for. At the same time, I think after a few more dates she will signal if she's really into me. Time will tell. 

I'm feeling excited and nervous. It's good. 

I am concerned that if we do hit it off that our schedules will become an obstacle. But then again it might be the perfect regulatory factor two healing people need at this moment in their lives.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

relax......be yourself......plan the date and follow through with it

when you chat with her.... find out what she enjoys

plan a date doing things she likes and could teach you about

don't tell her you are planning a date like this, surprise her

this goes a long way in unspeak, not verbal

informing her you like her.... she will pick this up immediately


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

It's not even 9 am yet and I'm so ready for my date tonight with Smiles. Got to keep busy and avoid mindlessness. Got to keep mindful and enjoy the now.

Emotional progress report: as usual, as I first woke up I thought of Scrooge. The mental movie ran with our unhelpful dialogues but this time it was shorter. Then I had thoughts of bumping into Scrooge somewhere and she's with the guy she left me for. Of course I punched his face off his skull but then I became aware of what I was doing

Thinking about things that won't happen. Rapid breathing. Increased blood pressure. Stress. Unproductive thoughts. Wasting time. Mindless.

Now I'm mindful. Going to eat a delicious breakfast slowly and enjoy the taste and flavor. Then go wash my truck and appreciate it's pleasing appearance, contours, and design.

Tonight no worrying. Just want to sit down, RELAX, and enjoy a great tasting meal with someone who can carry on a conversation. Must be mindful of what she is saying. Forget mental movies, forget what I want to say, just listen to her and reply honestly.


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## RSFWID (Jun 5, 2013)

Pictureless said:


> It's not even 9 am yet and I'm so ready for my date tonight with Smiles. Got to keep busy and avoid mindlessness. Got to keep mindful and enjoy the now.
> 
> Emotional progress report: as usual, as I first woke up I thought of Scrooge. The mental movie ran with our unhelpful dialogues but this time it was shorter. Then I had thoughts of bumping into Scrooge somewhere and she's with the guy she left me for. Of course I punched his face off his skull but then I became aware of what I was doing
> 
> ...


Have a good time tonight and forget about SCROOGE!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

RSFWID said:


> Have a good time tonight and forget about SCROOGE!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I had a blast tonight. Hopefully we will see each other again.

I thought it went well, but she did seem aggressive at first asking me about my history before...that person. After I answered a few questions I signaled enough by eating and talking about the food.

When I caught myself stumbling for convo I reminded myself to relax. Things really picked up when we started talking about careers. She was leaning forward, smiling, gestures, etc.

We took an after dinner stroll and talked. We struck gold when went browsing in a department store. For an hour we sat in recliner chairs in the middle of the store talking and singing songs from the '80's.

I walked her to her car. Very awkward ending and sudden goodbye. No effort made by either for hug or kiss. She said you have my number...

She texted me before I even got home, continuing where we left off in the store.

I had fun. She's so smart and kind, and pretty too. I know I should play the field and I will if I met anyone else, but for right now...and at the point in my life and at my age.....I'm just thankful for her, even if it turns out we just become friends.

But I wouldn't mind this friendship catching on fire.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> .....I'm just thankful for her, even if it turns out we just become friends.
> 
> But I wouldn't mind this friendship catching on fire.


Then you need to send it there. You don't need to have friendship before romance. You need to have mutual attraction. You can develop both at the same time. 

I think it all depends on your frame. If your frame is "hey, I'm a safe guy who just wants to be buddies," then that's what you'll end up with. Regardless of your age or station in life - if you want romance and the goods that come with that, then you have to move it along. She isn't going to.

Dating changes the game after divorce. Have fun with it, but make sure it meets your needs and what you want from it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

helolover said:


> Then you need to send it there. You don't need to have friendship before romance. You need to have mutual attraction. You can develop both at the same time.
> 
> I think it all depends on your frame. If your frame is "hey, I'm a safe guy who just wants to be buddies," then that's what you'll end up with. Regardless of your age or station in life - if you want romance and the goods that come with that, then you have to move it along. She isn't going to.
> 
> Dating changes the game after divorce. Have fun with it, but make sure it meets your needs and what you want from it.


You can spend quite a bit of money on dinners, movies, etc. and end up getting very acquainted with your left hand.


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## Convict (Feb 16, 2014)

Pictureless. This thread already contains all the advice you can possibly get. You yourself said it. It will all happen naturally, so let nature take it's normal course.

I totally know what you mean about feeling rusty and not being sure how one should proceed. But don't let that cloud your thoughts or make you jump when all you need to do is walk slowly. 

Smiles seems like a terrific woman. She is a widowed mom, but that's not her fault, and there is obviously nothing wrong with that. Enjoy your time with her, naturally, and as others have said, going on a date does not mean going to church to get married. 

We all would obviously love a tailor made new partner post divorce, but I guess we all agree that doesn't happen. So enjoy your time, your dates, and let it all happen naturally. 

The only thing I guess you could do is be very sure, if ever, when you let your emotional guard down. This is all supposed to make you happy, and not emotionally bruised yet again. So enjoy it but don't ever put yourself in a spot where your feelings are on the line.

And....most importantly, erase Scrooge from your mind, or at least compartmentalize her somewhere far far away in your mind so that she doesn't disrupt your time or thoughts with Smiles or anyone else.

Good luck wherever all this take you !


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

After church this morning I get to my truck and there is a text on my cell from Smiles. She wants to meet up tonight for a movie. I texted back yes.

A couple of concerns (one minor, one major). 

First, some context: right now she has her elderly parents living with her temporarily due to the fact that the parents recently purchased a new home and are in the process of moving into it.

The minor concern: to paraphrase her text "since I'm not working and my parents are home, let's go to a movie tonight." 

Ok....are you into me, got no plans, need to get away from kids, parents, or a little of all?

The Major concern: this morning I was reflecting on all of our talks. Now I realized I unintentionally made myself a liar to Smiles. 

Early on she said dating someone who is still married is adultery. I agreed. We're both Christians. I told her I was safe to date. I told her how ex wife divorced me. She said how long has it been. I said a couple months.

That is true, but it could also be considered a lie.

Scripturally, I've been abandoned by my wife who broke our covenant and fled the marriage. That was all of last year and she said it was over in December.

Legally, we filed for divorce in January, had the hearing in February, and the divorce was accepted and becomes final in mid May.

I met Smiles in late March. Our first meet up was in April.

I'm worried if Smiles asks for specific dates. Under state law I'm still legally married. We've done nothing illegal or immoral. Coffee, talks, and dinner. I told her I was safe to date. Now I realize that she could consider that a lie.

I know I sound like a nerd....but integrity matters to me. So does honesty and trust. I'd hate to think I lied on purpose.

What do you think? Should I bring it up or just go forward? Thanks.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

1, dude, she's pursuing a little. enjoy! she's telling you she likes you and is taking initiative, don't overread, go with it. You'd rather not be with her? naaa

2. Integrity is important. Don't muddy waters you don't need to. If she has a basic knowledge that your marriage is over, legal wrangling is done and so on she probably has what she needs to know and fits what her criteria was. To reopen will serve no purpose. If you were to fall in love and want to marry in 3 years, she won't give a crap about 2 months ago and some technicality probably only you are worrying about.

Have a good time!!!!!


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Met up with Smiles for a movie. She paid for the tickets, I bought the snacks. 

After the film we talked in the car for a while. Felt like a teenager. I held her hand a couple of times briefly but I noticed she didn't seem to want to hold mine back.

At the end it was awkward. She knew I wanted a kiss and as leaned in for one she said ok I'll give you a hug. Hmmmm. 

I feel like I'm getting mixed signals. On the one hand she's interested but on the other she's apprehensive. 

We talked about our values, beliefs, and expectations concerning love, marriage and relationships. She shared that she's had one relationship since her husband's passing. She said he was a nice guy but she broke it off because he was too clingy. SHE SAID men need to lead and be stronger in relationships. I joked wow he sounds beta and SHE KNEW about red and blue pill! She said because she's a nurse she's usually attracted to alphas but always ends up with a beta.

Is this really happening or am I dreaming? Even a dolt like me can understand what she's saying. Time will tell if what she does matches her words.

Slow down Pictureless! Sounds like she's saying she's interested but she wants me to go slow. In other words, she likes how we're both working on our own stuff.

Told you she was smart. And man she looked good last night. She's right. Slow and steady. It's insane for us with our issues to rush into anything.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Just had another thought to contrast last post.

Is it wrong at our age, even with our Christian values, to want a little more encouragement from her? I know I sound neurotic but....a kiss? She can't give up a good night kiss?

I'm hopeful but confused. Never been where I am now with someone like her before.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> Just had another thought to contrast last post.
> 
> Is it wrong at our age, even with our Christian values, to want a little more encouragement from her? I know I sound neurotic but....a kiss? She can't give up a good night kiss?
> 
> I'm hopeful but confused. Never been where I am now with someone like her before.


How about taking one?


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Conrad said:


> How about taking one?


You're right. Like right at the beginning of the next date?

And maybe let her stew with a few days of NC?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> You're right. Like right at the beginning of the next date?
> 
> And maybe let her stew with a few days of NC?


How quickly do you answer texts?


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Conrad said:


> How quickly do you answer texts?


Evenly. If we're having a "conversation" I reply approximately in the same amount of time she does.

If it's a random hello I get to it in due course. Like her. There's been a few times she's replied after a lengthy delay but she has explained/apologized why. And I do the same. Examples-sorry just got out of ministry group or sorry just left gym.

Last night was a brief post date exchange. After playful texts I thanked her again for the good time. No response.

Now I'm thinking no more texts at this point. I'll just call her Thursday night saying something like this is what I have planned for Friday night, are you on board?

And then if we meet up again, when we first see each other I plant one on her and get it over with. Too bold?

Yup, I need to break any allusion of friend zone and signal we are dating. I HONESTLY don't want to hop in the sack with her yet-I think she's worth waiting for and I AM not ready for that either-but I want to be more than friends. Does this make sense?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> Evenly. If we're having a "conversation" I reply approximately in the same amount of time she does.
> 
> If it's a random hello I get to it in due course. Like her. There's been a few times she's replied after a lengthy delay but she has explained/apologized why. And I do the same. Examples-sorry just got out of ministry group or sorry just left gym.
> 
> ...


Don't ask questions. Just tell her what arrangements you've made. Let her object if she doesn't want to.

I'd likely walk straight up to her for "more than a hug" next time you see her - make a point of sniffing her neck and mumble that she smells wonderful. Look into her eyes as you release. If you see what you need to see, proceed.

If not, save it for later in the evening when you get the signal.

You do realize there are entire books about this stuff.

I'm giving you a link to the best one. Do not flinch at the title. It should be re-named, "how to communicate with women effectively" - because it's chock full of that. Once you're communicating effectively, you take it wherever it goes.

The Layguide: How to Seduce Women More Beautiful Than You Ever Dreamed Possible No Matter What You Look Like or How Much You Make: Tony Clink: 9780806526027: Amazon.com: Books


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Don't ask questions. Just tell her what arrangements you've made. Let her object if she doesn't want to.
> 
> I'd likely walk straight up to her for "more than a hug" next time you see her - make a point of sniffing her neck and mumble that she smells wonderful. Look into her eyes as you release. If you see what you need to see, proceed.
> 
> ...


C,

Thanks for the suggestions. 

Just to be clear: if after hug she signals ok proceed with kiss or proceed with date? I've noticed that its at the end of dates when it comes to the goodnight kiss moment is when she flakes. I honestly believe she's low miles. But that doesn't mean she's not a gamer. 

As for me....well I'm not the same person I used to be. An hour after meeting Scrooge we were doing it. I'm not like that anymore. I'm a Christian now and Smiles is too, as well as educated and classy. Capisce? 

So you get what I'm struggling with. I've dated plenty of unbelievers back then and even though they were "nice" they gave it up quick. I'm in uncharted territory here. No map, no compass, and the GPS has no signal.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> C,
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions.
> 
> ...


After a deep hug and you mumbling that she smells wonderful, her eyes will tell you whether to kiss her or not.

Trust your gut and observe it.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Conrad said:


> After a deep hug and you mumbling that she smells wonderful, her eyes will tell you whether to kiss her or not.
> 
> Trust your gut and observe it.


Got it. Thanks


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Two progress reports:

Smiles texted yesterday. I replied hours later after my day's normal routine. When we last left off in person we were going to see each other sometime this Friday night because she's working Saturday and we both are busy for Easter. Long story short, I invited her to an event Friday night and she said she couldn't make it at that time due to a commitment but she offered to see me sometime Saturday before she goes to work. She apologized for her hectic schedule. 

It is possible I misunderstood her availability. I have plans that she knows about on Saturday. Seeing her afterwards would be demanding and stressful. If its a mutual mistake or a poop test doesn't matter: she's going to have to wait. 

As far as working on my stuff goes: an Unsafe Friend made a request to me last Saturday. When I explained I couldn't fulfill their need at that time I got the guilt and shaming routine. I got upset and angry because old patterns don't change overnight, yet I held firm. What they asked me for wasn't urgent and can wait. 

I work all week, go to grad school nights, and every one knows about my diet and exercise regiment. I'm entitled to a lazy morning. Sorry, but I don't jump anymore whenever you snap your fingers. And if you want to berate me for that and call me a POS that's YOUR choice, not mine. 

Thanks for listening.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> C,
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions.
> 
> Just to be clear: if after hug she signals ok proceed with kiss or proceed with date?


I think most girls wouldn't mind you to lean in and give a quick kiss and then move on to whatever you're doing, so there's no embarrassment about it, no agenda, just a 'you're cute' thing to do.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Smiles report: she texted me from work last night as I was leaving class (hmmmm....she remembers my schedule). I replied after I got home and settled. 

We text chatted and flirted for a while until I got sleepy. She made it known that after last night she was off until Saturday. I answered that's great and left it at that.

Unsafe Friend report: the anger is building on both sides. I'm in a bind. I'm realizing friends charity and help has strings attached. 

During S and now D I have been living with Friend. At first it was OK but now Friend is starting to become demanding and controlling. Asking me to help with something and commanding I drop and do are two very different things. 

Since last Saturday's blow out Friend has tried the guilt and shame routine. When that didn't work it was revenge; Friend raised my rent. (I don't expect a free ride but you said I could live here while I regroup from D, if I pay any more you're not doing me a favor you're profiting from my misfortune). Friend says I'm ungrateful and should be doing more; all because I declined one specific request which I wrote about earlier. Friend then went down a laundry list of my infractions (what I read minds?) and unfulfilled duties (I can't do something unless I'm asked to). Then Friend said I'm selfish and I should do things without being told (are we married?).

I told friend your anger and emotions is on you. I am not making you feel this way, you are doing it to yourself. 

I have to leave and find some place else to live. I might be able to do it but I'll be broke and starving. Or I could give in for now to stall while I seek better arrangements. 

Just what I need. More drama and set backs. Friend is a good person but very controlling. I can't live like this. But I'm broke. Never heard back from that job so obviously I didn't get it. I swear if I didn't have so much stuff in Friends house I'd say bye and sleep in my car and shower at the gym. 

Grrrrrrrr


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Friend must think in exchange for me living there I've become the on call servant. Is that how you help people? Apparently if I don't like it I can get the bleep out. Swell.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Place an ad for a roommate. Colleges are good places for that; many times you'll never even see the person as they'll be away studying all the time.

And your 'friend' sounds wacko.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Turnera,

Thanks for the input on the last few posts.

update: I submitted to Friend to keep the peace. I know, it's wrong, but it's my only option at the moment.

My new focus is finding my own place. I have to develop a plan to make it happen.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

meh, I've swallowed my tongue plenty of times to achieve an end. (I know, hard to believe!) Nothing wrong with that.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Smiles report: NC from her yesterday, and I called her and she blew me off today.

I know we are both busy and everything, so I'm trying to be positive about this, but my gut is telling me she's not interested. 

I put the ball in her court. I told her if she wants to get together sometime she can call me.

What a bummer. Oh well. Too bad she was really pretty and nice. I guess she's not the one for me.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> ....... I guess she's not the one for me.


There is no ONE...

Many more waiting for you.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

helolover said:


> There is no ONE...
> 
> Many more waiting for you.


H,

Great read. Thanks for the link. I swear it's not oneitis but I could see how it could have lead there. She does have to work tonight. So either she's busy or not interested. We'll see. Balls in her court. I told her to call me when she wants to get together. 

It's just. ..discouraging. I think if it doesn't work out I might just give up for a while. Maybe I'm meant to be alone.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Happy Easter everybody!

Talked to my Safe Friend this morning. He asked how it's going with Smiles so I told him. He offered a point of view I haven't considered: that she might be taking time to weigh things. He said it might have been too much too soon for her. I'm not sure I agree. We only hugged once. I just think it's a simple case of her not being into me. He doesn't agree and thinks I'll be hearing from her. 

In any case he told me I can't let this get me down. He's right. Like he said, plenty more fish in the sea. 

Thanks for listening. Have a great day all.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

A new day, a new week. Back to the drawing board. Hit the dating site this morning and sent out a few flirts.

Gym tonight. ...SP Clone back in play?

Class tomorrow night. BD in play? 

Life is a box of chocolates.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

more important, you are back in play

play the game.............you might win


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

Hang in there.

Good things will happen. Be happy, confident and yourself.

That way you don't have to overthink finding a woman. The right one will find you and you her.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> more important, you are back in play
> 
> play the game.............you might win


Thanks man. Feeling kind of low now but you're right, it's a game and I'm in play.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

LBHmidwest said:


> Hang in there.
> 
> Good things will happen. Be happy, confident and yourself.
> 
> That way you don't have to overthink finding a woman. The right one will find you and you her.


Thanks bro. I'm trying to keep positive. I was happy to read about your success. Keep it up! You deserve it.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Vent/rant: what the bleep is wrong with me? Why do I keep getting rejected? I like loving people, I like relationships, I'm honest and genuine. I like me. I'm not needy or clingy, and I'm not insensitive or fake. I'm just me. Why the games and BS? What the bleep! Grrrrrrr

Ok...enough of that. Sleep and start over tomorrow

Oh one other thing....not to curse myself, but....the last couple of weeks in church I've noticed a pretty blonde around my age staring at me. And no it's not my imagination, she stands up to leave when I do, she leaves when I leave, she walks behind me as we exit, and she sat across from me one Sunday at a luncheon.

One Sunday when I was pulling out of the parking lot she walked in front on my car and didn't break eye contact. It was raining and she was just standing there with an umbrella. 

On the one hand I'm flattered, on the other hand I'm feeling stalked. I asked Safe Friend what's up? He claims he doesn't know who she is but she just starting showing up....a few weeks after I started going there because I had to uproot from my old church because of D.

I'm thinking somebody might be trying to play Cupid but I'm not sure how I feel about approaching someone in church.

Her nick: sad eyes. She very pretty, but she looks sad.

I wish dating was like ordering Chinese food. Somebody give me an #8.


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## Brokenman85 (Jul 24, 2013)

Pictureless said:


> Vent/rant: what the bleep is wrong with me? Why do I keep getting rejected? I like loving people, I like relationships, I'm honest and genuine. I like me. I'm not needy or clingy, and I'm not insensitive or fake. I'm just me. Why the games and BS? What the bleep! Grrrrrrr
> 
> Ok...enough of that. Sleep and start over tomorrow


Right there with you man.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> Vent/rant: what the bleep is wrong with me? Why do I keep getting rejected? I like loving people, I like relationships, I'm honest and genuine. I like me. I'm not needy or clingy, and I'm not insensitive or fake. I'm just me. Why the games and BS? What the bleep! Grrrrrrr
> 
> Ok...enough of that. Sleep and start over tomorrow.


in relationships in the past, did you want to end it

but dreaded breaking the girl's heart?


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> in relationships in the past, did you want to end it
> 
> but dreaded breaking the girl's heart?


Chuck,

No. I can't honestly remember ever doing that. 

Sadly I've been dumped twice in significant relationships. Here's some irony: My divorce hearing with Scrooge was on the date my first real love as an adult dumped me. That was 23 years ago.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Hmmmm....just remembered something else. Scrooge, Smiles, and First Love's names all began with the same letter. All grew up in towns whose names all began with the same letter; in fact Scrooge and Smiles live in the same town now. All relationships ended around holidays: Scrooge days before Christmas, First Love days after Valentines, and Smiles around Easter (though it hardly counts since it wasn't a LTR).

The more I think. ....First Love and Scrooge both came from broken homes and looking back, I'm guessing they had a "me first, I must survive" mentality. 

I come from a broken home too but we were taught not to be selfish and self centered.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So you have a Fixer mentality. Many do. The trick is to avoid the women who need fixing.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

turnera said:


> So you have a Fixer mentality. Many do. The trick is to avoid the women who need fixing.


I know I did at the end with Scrooge but she did claim to have issues with her family. Whenever I offered solutions she ripped into me, which caused us to fight with each other. We even fought about how we fought. Sad really. 

If I knew then what I know now. Still, it doesn't matter. If she truly loved me she wouldn't have given up on us.

Our old pastor still says we're not too far apart. I think we are. I know it is for me. Too much hurt to trust her again. I never gave up on her and perhaps that was my mistake. I remember telling her once I wouldn't have put up with her crap when we were dating and I didn't understand why I was in the marriage. I became codependent. I wasn't like that when I met her. I'll never put my plans on long term hold again for another person.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Remembering lost loves....memory lane....yeah...it pulls at you

I've only had three, first love was 1988-91, second 1991-96, third

was my X 1997-12. Each time I fell deeper and deeper

in '13, D final was 2/1....first love friended me on FB a week before.

Second love friended me on 5/31 last year. 5/31 was our anniversary

any female I have had a relationship with over a few weeks

are on my FB. no....we don't talk often but we do "catch up"

I'm not rich, not drop dead gorgeous, aren't "John Holmes"

I treated all with kindness and respect

Trust me, I can be a PITA but I try to own when I am

Do you keep in touch at all with your first love?

The urology gal, we've dated since Jan. '13...will she be the fourth?

There was one before the first....I was 16, she was 15, met on vacation

whenever life seems to close in it's walls, I think back to that time

the purity, the innocence....the passion

we reflect to find answers within ourselves.....


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> Remembering lost loves....memory lane....yeah...it pulls at you
> 
> I've only had three, first love was 1988-91, second 1991-96, third
> 
> ...


We do reflect. And we may never find answers. 

I admire your resiliency. And no, I don't keep in touch with past loves. Too painful; I believe it's better to let go and move on.

I found the following from Henri Nouwen; it makes me weep with sadness because of my vain search. I've wasted half my life looking for love that I had but rejected. 



'To whom do I belong? To God or to the world?' Many of my daily preoccupations suggest that I belong more to the world than to God. A little criticism makes me angry, and a little rejection makes me depressed. A little praise raises my spirits, and a little success excites me. It takes very little to raise me up or thrust me down. Often I am like a small boat on the ocean, completely at the mercy of its waves. All the time and energy I spend in keeping some kind of balance and preventing myself from being tipped over and drowning shows that my life is mostly a struggle for survival: not a holy struggle, but an anxious struggle resulting from the mistaken idea that it is the world that defines me.

"As long as I keep running about asking: 'Do you love me? Do you really love me?' I give all power to the voices of the world and put myself in bondage because the world is filled with 'ifs.' The world says: 'Yes, I love you if you are good-looking, intelligent, and wealthy. I love you if you have a good education, a good job, and good connections. I love you if you produce much, sell much, and buy much.' There are endless 'ifs' hidden in the world's love. These 'ifs' enslave me, since it is impossible to respond adequately to all of them. The world's love is and always will be conditional. As long as I keep looking for my true self in the world of conditional love, I will remain 'hooked' to the world — trying, failing, and trying again. It is a world that fosters addictions because what it offers cannot satisfy the deepest craving of my heart.

"I am the prodigal son every time I search for unconditional love where it cannot be found. Why do I keep ignoring the place of true love and persist in looking for it elsewhere? Why do I keep leaving home where I am called a child of God, the Beloved of my Father? I am constantly surprised at how I keep taking the gifts God has given me — my health, my intellectual and emotional gifts — and keep using them to impress people, receive affirmation and praise, and compete for rewards, instead of developing them for the glory of God. Yes, I often carry them off to a 'distant country' and put them in the service of an exploiting world that does not know their true value. It's almost as if I want to prove to myself and to my world that I do not need God's love, that I can make a life on my own, that I want to be fully independent.

God has never pulled back his arms, never withheld his blessing, never stopped considering his son the Beloved One. But the Father couldn't compel his son to stay home. He couldn't force his love on the Beloved. He had to let him go in freedom, even though he knew the pain it would cause both his son and himself. It was love itself that prevented him from keeping his son home at all cost. It was love itself that allowed him to let his son find his own life, even with the risk of losing it.

"Here the mystery of my life is unveiled. I am loved so much that I am left free to leave home. The blessing is there from the beginning. I have left it and keep on leaving it. But the Father is always looking for me with outstretched arms to receive me back and whisper again in my ear: 'You are my Beloved, on you my favor rests.' "


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

yet you tend to blame yourself for their transgressions

it's not your fault

did you do a number of #3s in your M with Scrooge?


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> yet you tend to blame yourself for their transgressions
> 
> it's not your fault
> 
> did you do a number of #3s in your M with Scrooge?


I know. I've come to learn about forgiving myself and trusting in being forgiven. It's been a life long struggle. I'm trying to trust more and let go of that which I cannot control. 

What are #3's?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

this is something Conrad brought up, DeMello I think

a #1 is an action you do for yourself, i.e. go to ballgame, buy shirt
#2-you give to others w/o expecting anything in return-think Mother Teresa or missionary 
#3 is where you give to another with an expected result or response. ex-you buy Scrooge a necklace. you expect her to thank you and acknowledge her gift. when she doesn't give the response you desired, you become angry


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> this is something Conrad brought up, DeMello I think
> 
> a #1 is an action you do for yourself, i.e. go to ballgame, buy shirt
> #2-you give to others w/o expecting anything in return-think Mother Teresa or missionary
> #3 is where you give to another with an expected result or response. ex-you buy Scrooge a necklace. you expect her to thank you and acknowledge her gift. when she doesn't give the response you desired, you become angry


It was mostly 2 with Scrooge and her kids for years until I realized that they didn't reciprocate. Then I felt taken advantage of and used. Worse, when she tried to do right in her way, I mistook it for 3. 

She could not validate my worth in the end. I deserve to be no less than her equal. There was a reason why she couldn't-she didn't love me. 

She always said at the end. ..I hope you find someone who can love you the way you want. 

My response-when you love someone you are loving them the way they want.

Example-during R attempt when we were S she refused to go to MC on Mondays. Why? Because her 17 year old would-gasp-have to wait a half hour before she could come home and make him dinner. 

I'd say, our marriage isn't important enough to make him wait just once? He can't heat up a frozen pizza himself while we try to save our M?

She'd say no, I'm trying to control her and make her choose between the M and her kids.

We know where I stand now. Foolish. It was a false choice. Even the MC said spouses need to put each other first sometimes.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> It was mostly 2 with Scrooge and her kids for years until I realized that _they didn't reciprocate_.


So you WERE expecting a certain response. It WAS a #3.



> She could not validate my worth in the end.


I hope it's just a miscommunication in the way you said this, but you realize it's neither her job nor within her capabilities to validate anything about you, right?

That's YOUR job.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> It was mostly 2 with Scrooge and her kids for years until I realized that they didn't reciprocate. Then I felt taken advantage of and used.
> 
> *So wasn't this an actual #3?*
> 
> ...


----------



## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

turnera said:


> So you WERE expecting a certain response. It WAS a #3.
> 
> I hope it's just a miscommunication in the way you said this, but you realize it's neither her job nor within her capabilities to validate anything about you, right?
> 
> That's YOUR job.


Nope. It was a 2 until it dawned on me that I always give, for years, and what do I get back? When questioned, I got anger. Giving goes both ways. 

What I mean by validation is appreciation. Not to be taken for granted. She came to believe that she was entitled. And it is her job to show her gratitude, as I did. Not grovel, not constantly thank, but to show your gratefulness. Nope, she became selfish. Even the MC said that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You teach people how to treat you. You gave and gave because it made you feel good. In the meantime you taught her that you're a Giver (Fixer) who doesn't expect anything in return. No offense, but you set yourself up for this.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

turnera said:


> You teach people how to treat you. You gave and gave because it made you feel good. In the meantime you taught her that you're a Giver (Fixer) who doesn't expect anything in return. No offense, but you set yourself up for this.


Correct and there were other issues too and red flags I overlooked or missed. I'm sad, but I have no regrets. I learned much from this.

So she must have bailed when, after months of MC, she realized that I wasn't going to be her fixer anymore?


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Chuck., 

I'm trying to learn. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? I don't think you were a slime ball about the drugs unless I misunderstand you


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> So she must have bailed when, after months of MC, she realized that I wasn't going to be her fixer anymore?


Most certainly. People don't want you to stop being what they expect you to be. Read the amazing book The Dance Of Anger. You will learn a LOT from it. Specifically, that when you do grow and change, your peeps will do "Change back!" behavior to try to get you get back into your box, to make their lives comfortable.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

turnera said:


> Most certainly. People don't want you to stop being what they expect you to be. Read the amazing book The Dance Of Anger. You will learn a LOT from it. Specifically, that when you do grow and change, your peeps will do "Change back!" behavior to try to get you get back into your box, to make their lives comfortable.


Hmmmmm......interesting. After our major blow up, I apologized for my stuff and we went to MC while we were S. During MC she said she doesn't want me fixing her problems.... so I didn't anymore. She gave me poop tests and I said I'm not coming back to live like before. We seemed to be working on our stuff and then bam she says its over. I think by that point she was able to execute Plan A. BTW it was her 3 M and D, my first.

Gŕrrrrrr....here I am talking about her and it again. Not what I wanted for myself today.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Say what? You married someone who was divorced twice before? Without seeing her record of nonstop therapy to learn better? Good thing you got out, lol!

So go do something you've never done before today. Treat a stranger to a coffee. Say hi to someone you've been shy to talk to. Do something.


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## AFPhoenix (Dec 24, 2013)

Pictureless,

Stop knocking yourself. There are so many women out there. Continue what you're doing....which is concentrating on you. Trust me, once you re-gain your confidence and swagger, you won't have a problem. I still have days when I think about the good times that Raider and I had and feel some sadness but when I remember the bad times and how she treated me, it all goes flying away.

We'll get through this and when we look back, we'll see them regretting their actions/decisions and we won't care.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> Chuck.,
> 
> I'm trying to learn. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? I don't think you were a slime ball about the drugs unless I misunderstand you


if it was questioning the #3, yes. You gave and received

no response, which upset you. I would have loved for all

three of my past loves, to love me for my baseball card prowess.

Never happened.... women are attracted to and love men for

their ability to provide and protect. No woman in her rational

mind would consider a guy father material if he was very cute

but had alcohol and drug problems. not saying you drink, etc

As for my step son, yeah she thought I was pure evil for 

treating him like a man rather than a lost child (he was 21).

It would be great to have a relationship with him again but he

has yet to speak with me about the stolen items.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

thanks everyone good stuff today I'm on my way to grad school I have class tonight I'll think about what everyone said and I'll try to make myself a good day


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

To Blonde,

"Hi, my name is Pictureless. I started going to this church a few months ago. Have you been going here a long time?


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Somebody backslided today. Thanks for the support guys. My TAM family rules!


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Hey Pic, just getting caught up. 

Fwiw, your 2's are 3's. Don't fool yourself. Accept it, learn from it and move on. Don't beat yourself up. You did what you knew to do. Move on. 

Is Smiles still an option?

Just wondering because I think we can help you with her and you seemed to dig her. 

You're a good guy who just needs some minor tweaking.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Ceegee said:


> Hey Pic, just getting caught up.
> 
> Fwiw, your 2's are 3's. Don't fool yourself. Accept it, learn from it and move on. Don't beat yourself up. You did what you knew to do. Move on.
> 
> ...


Damn Conrad joven.
Pic of my new ride saturday with d15.
GF will show up later.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Again we have all been codependant.

Only you can figure out how bad but when you do and accept it,
You are free.
It is so relieving. 
But I'm an Ass.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Good morning all.

Yup, I had a bad yesterday. I'm sure I'll have more. 

I know I made mistakes with Scrooge and I've owned them and I'm working on me. I'll never let myself get like that again. 

And no I don't think Smiles is an option anymore. If you read back she seemingly moved on overnight. I'm guessing she's not interested. Last time she initiated contact was last Thursday. I called her Saturday and she said she was busy so I said ok call me if you want to go out. 

When the phone don't ring I know it's her not calling. 

I'm really starting to wonder if I'm meant to be alone. Maybe not forever, but for right now. 

My 2 became 3 when Scrooge asked me what I wanted for my birthday. I told her and she said no it was too expensive, which wasn't true. She had no problem buying expensive gifts for herself and her children but never for me. So I stopped spending on her and her kids. When she asked I told her I'm not buying love. 

Maybe that was wrong but it's how I felt. I get what you're saying about gifts with strings but isn't there something to feeling that you were taken advantage of and used?

Scrooge and I both did things wrong. It's over. I'm forgiven for my mistakes by my God. Scrooge did me a favor by dumping me. The brain knows but the heart is still lingering in the past.

I guess getting dropped so quickly by Smiles set me off. I wish she gave us more of a chance. Like I posted yesterday, I have to remember that the world does not define me.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

If your mindset is that you're meant to be alone then you will be. 

To ask the question is to answer it.

Confidence is of the utmost importance for a man when it comes to dating. 

Telling a woman to "call me if you want to go out" is sure way to not see her again.

What are you doing for fun these days? 

Do you go out with male friends?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

read CGs threads from a year ago.......look at him now

in the grad classes I lecture in, day one

"I promise I will lead you to the stream

but it is up to you to drink. Your choice, not mine."

when you feel defeated, you are defeated

when you feel strong, you are strong

women are experts at reading social cues


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

I'm confused. Are you suggesting I should call Smiles? Wouldn't that signal being clingy and needy? She's told me she's not attracted to needy men.

And no, I don't have any male friends my age. I grew apart from my buddies when I got married and I honestly don't miss them. All they want to do is drink and chase skirt. I'm not into that scene anymore.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

going out with the guys does not automatically merit beer n bytches

talk sports, shop, cars, faith..... hanging with the guys is for you 

to get out of the house and not "backslide". remember "idle time

is the devil's workshop". set up a study group for your grad class,

try a meet-up. Pic-you didn't have any kids w/Scrooge did you?


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> going out with the guys does not automatically merit beer n bytches
> 
> talk sports, shop, cars, faith..... hanging with the guys is for you
> 
> ...


Hmmmm...I work, go to the gym, go to grad school, and go to church. Not a lot of free time anymore. 

Those guy friends were mostly army buddies. ...going out with them means getting drunk and cheating. I'm not into that. 

I'm the oldest in my grad school classes and one of the youngest adult males in my church. The gym is great for getting in shape but no new faces lately and they're either too young or too old.

I'm getting bites on dating site. I'll let you know how it goes. 

Nope, after Scrooge was done using H2 as a donor she had her tubes tied so we didn't have kids. I'm so lucky for that....that and she tried to get me to buy a house. I said we'll see. ...so glad about that. Smartest thing I did with her. 

I don't regret marrying her but I regret my poor decision making at that time. I willingly married her knowing she couldn't give me kids. Now I wish I married someone else. If it didn't work out at least I would have had my children. 

Oh well....


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Do you have any hobbies or interests?

If there are any meetups in your area that cater to those hobbies or interests you should look into it. 

New relationships will blossom organically in the right setting. 

You need to make time for you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> I'm really starting to wonder if I'm meant to be alone. Maybe not forever, but for right now.


Absolutely!

I tell EVERYONE I advise to go it alone for at least a year after divorce or breakup. Why? Because you most likely never took the time - as a real adult (not a 20 year old who's not really an adult yet) - to get to know yourself. And how can you be a good partner to anyone else until you do. And how can you be a good partner if you can't learn to be CONTENT by yourself so that you know that any relationship you then go into, it's not because you need a warm body in your bed but because being with that person adds value to your life.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Join meetup.com or eventsandadventures, and find things going on in your city that sound interesting. Remember that everyone going there is going alone, so you'll be just like everyone else. Plus you'll have fun doing something you like to do!


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Thanks for the input everyone. I already did the meetup thing. It's not for me. Nice people but mostly younger and into hooking up.

I'm trying to be a better Christian now


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

hobbies...take a class for one

Junior colleges are great for that.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> Hmmmm...I work, go to the gym, go to grad school, and go to church. Not a lot of free time anymore.
> 
> Those guy friends were mostly army buddies. ...going out with them means getting drunk and cheating. I'm not into that.
> 
> ...


wise choice not buying home. I'm very glad to see you growing

pop told me "you get opportunities somewhat rarely;

therefore you have to make opportunities"....he told me this

not long after my 1st love and I split up. I went around visiting

friends I had not seen in awhile when she and I were dating.

Within a month, I was dating 3x a week, simply from the 

friends of my friends. One of those knew a friend, of a friend, 

who asked me to play a joke on a girl she knew, was harmless

but she took it too far. I informed the one joke was played on

that it was senseless fun but went awry. I apologized for my 

part and offered to buy her dinner to make up for it. We dated 

awhile and if I did ever let a girl "get away", she was it.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

these are all good suggestions from everyone thanks but I'll be okay I have enough on my plate to keep me busy I just have to get over things and also realize that at my age meeting woman to date is going to be challenging


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> these are all good suggestions from everyone thanks but I'll be okay I have enough on my plate to keep me busy I just have to get over things and also realize that *at my age meeting woman to date is going to be challenging*


You couldn't be more wrong...


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> these are all good suggestions from everyone thanks but I'll be okay I have enough on my plate to keep me busy I just have to get over things and also realize that at my age meeting woman to date is going to be challenging


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

it's actually easier when you're older

but don't ever compromise your beliefs for no one

I dated a woman between D filing and final, smart, witty

didn't believe in existence of God. I asked why.

Come to find out, she hated God. She didn't believe He was real.

"But if you deny existence, how can you hate Him?"

that comment cost me a kiss, overnight stay, plus :rofl:

truth hurts sometimes but I had a clear conscience


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> didn't believe in existence of God. I asked why.
> 
> Come to find out, she hated God. She didn't believe He was real.
> 
> "But if you deny existence, how can you hate Him?"


That very dialog, almost verbatim, was in the movie "God's Not Dead."


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> You couldn't be more wrong...


You are right, I have to trust and keep faith. Not easy to do in this blue state.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> You are right, I have to trust and keep faith. Not easy to do in this blue state.


State of mind is so important to confidence. 

It's not just semantics.

When I hear "I have to trust and keep faith" I hear "if I just wait and keep hoping someone will take me".

When you know and feel it deep within you that you are awesome just the way you are people (both men and women) will notice.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> State of mind is so important to confidence.
> 
> It's not just semantics.
> 
> ...


You're right which brings me back to Smiles. She was saying one night when we were talking that if God wants her to ge married again she will know.

God didn't blow me off, Smiles did. It made me think:

If I was in a lifeboat in the middle of the ocean, I would say a prayer and be thankful that I survived the shipwreck. I would ask for God's help to dry land. But I wouldn't just sit there. I would start paddling with my hands if I had to.

I don't know. ..I don't think God answers and speaks out to some as often as they like to believe. Wouldn't you think He's busy with more important, bigger issues?

Scrooge said she was praying for an answer concerning our marriage. I don't believe God told her to divorce me. That voice she heard was her toxic friends / POSOM. 

Meanwhile everywhere I go I keep hearing the same theme: forgive and be happy. Somebody talking to me through others?


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

I've spent many years in Bible Study, women's groups, etc. at various churches. I've concluded that organized religion is a positive influence on society, but I've also witnessed some of the meanest judgements and some of the most disgusting interpersonal behavior by people claiming to be followers of Jesus.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

magnoliagal said:


> I've spent many years in Bible Study, women's groups, etc. at various churches. I've concluded that organized religion is a positive influence on society, but I've also witnessed some of the meanest judgements and some of the most disgusting interpersonal behavior by people claiming to be followers of Jesus.


I hear you. Christians make mistakes too. I'm not suggesting I'm not without my faults. I made MANY mistakes in my marriage and life. Time to put some daylight between me and my sins.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> You're right which brings me back to Smiles. She was saying one night when we were talking that if God wants her to ge married again she will know.
> 
> *God didn't blow me off, Smiles did*. It made me think:
> 
> ...


I don't think Smiles blew you off...

I think she may have felt that you weren't all that interested in her.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> I don't think Smiles blew you off...
> 
> I think she may have felt that you weren't all that interested in her.


I don't understand. Why do you think that? Did you go back a few pages and read the history? If she was interested wouldn't she still be texting. ...


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> I don't understand. Why do you think that? Did you go back a few pages and read the history? If she was interested wouldn't she still be texting. ...


The last time you guys went out - the movies I think it was - you had a good time. Normal date for you two.

Then, scheduling conflicts and your perception that she blew you off when you called. 

Haven't had contact in about 4 days?

You told her if she wanted to get together she could call you; leaving her to make the next move. 

When I first read that it sounded a little passive aggressive. I could be wrong but if I took it that way she may have too. 

If you want to test the waters, and see if there's anything there, try to engage her. Text her something funny and see if it starts any dialogue.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> You're right which brings me back to Smiles. She was saying one night when we were talking that if God wants her to ge married again she will know.
> 
> God didn't blow me off, Smiles did. It made me think:
> 
> ...





Garth Brooks - Unanswered Prayers Lyrics - YouTube


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Ceegee said:


> The last time you guys went out - the movies I think it was - you had a good time. Normal date for you two.
> 
> Then, scheduling conflicts and your perception that she blew you off when you called.
> 
> ...


you make the plans, let her break them

if she breaks them and non re-schedule

them throw ball in her court


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> The last time you guys went out - the movies I think it was - you had a good time. Normal date for you two.
> 
> Then, scheduling conflicts and your perception that she blew you off when you called.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I'm thinking about it. 

On our last date she mentioned she was going to a concert. ...I didn't ask with who because I figured if she wanted me to know she'd tell me.

And during a discussion about gratitude she said she was thankful for all the people coming into her life......like other men?

During our last phone call I didn't hear any interest in her voice. She didn't say she's not interested, but a polite no for that day.

Given all that and the no contact on Friday and the NC since the call Saturday it seems to me she's not interested. I read on her blog she wants a man that will fight for her. Not sure what else I can do at this early stage.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

magnoliagal said:


> I've spent many years in Bible Study, women's groups, etc. at various churches. I've concluded that organized religion is a positive influence on society, but I've also witnessed some of the meanest judgements and some of the most disgusting interpersonal behavior by people claiming to be followers of Jesus.


I can't agree more, we call 'em Sunday Morning Christians

I'm not the model Christian BY FAR but I am the same on

Tuesday morning as I am Sunday morning

I'm in TN, short drive to NC, SC, GA, AL

preacher screams at me for sinin' by taking a drink

but then goes outside to light a cigarette

yeah, I'm up for a debate but.....I stood up to Brother xxxx

I'm the azzhole......well, I guess I am....at least I admit it


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> Interesting. I'm thinking about it.
> 
> On our last date she mentioned she was going to a concert. ...I didn't ask with who because I figured if she wanted me to know she'd tell me.
> 
> ...


Oh, nevermind.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> you make the plans, let her break them
> 
> if she breaks them and non re-schedule
> 
> them throw ball in her court


Chuck,

Please go back a few pages and read the history my friend.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> Chuck,
> 
> Please go back a few pages and read the history my friend.


I did, good luck!


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> Oh, nevermind.


Yup. :smthumbup:


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> I did, good luck!


Translation: she's not into you dude


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> On our last date she mentioned she was going to a concert. ...*I didn't ask with who* because I figured if she wanted me to know she'd tell me.
> 
> And during a discussion about gratitude she said she was thankful for all the people coming into her life......*like other men*?
> 
> ...


Wow. Awful lot of assumptions going on on your part, as well as a lot of NO ACTION on your part based on those (possibly wrong) assumptions. Maybe she posted that after getting frustrated with all your assumptions and backing off.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> Translation: she's not into you dude


And yet ANOTHER assumption!

Did you ever think of just asking out loud?


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Chuck71 said:


> I can't agree more, we call 'em Sunday Morning Christians
> 
> I'm not the model Christian BY FAR but I am the same on
> 
> ...


I watch an adult child have a disagreement with a matriarch. Honest misunderstanding on both sides. Then the "favored" daughter decides to start boycotting family events until the "offending" adult child is excluded.

I wonder did she decide to punish in that manner before or after taking communion?

I've heard siblings declare they'll be "keeping" the divorced spouse and exclude family from holiday events on matters that had nothing to do with them either. Then, those same people make a big production out of inviting the "offending" sibling to church? Yes, big of them, don't you think?

M. Scott Peck wrote a book called, "The Road Less Traveled". It's actually superb insight. But, he has a deeper work called, "The People of the Lie". The lie he references is their image.

Who are they to judge? Indeed.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

turnera said:


> Wow. Awful lot of assumptions going on on your part, as well as a lot of NO ACTION on your part based on those (possibly wrong) assumptions. Maybe she posted that after getting frustrated with all your assumptions and backing off.


I know.....but she posted that back in January.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ah, so you knew it but still didn't do what she wanted...


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

turnera said:


> Ah, so you knew it but still didn't do what she wanted...


What?! What more can I do? BTW she didn't mention her blog but I found it on my own. 

IDK...the abrupt NC, the no kissing. ..she's either into someone else or she's still not ready to date.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's cool, just trying to get you to see outside the box. If you didn't know you didn't know.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

turnera said:


> That's cool, just trying to get you to see outside the box. If you didn't know you didn't know.


Got it. Anyway, I suppose it's just as well. I think I played it right. If she's interested she'll call otherwise we both know. Although I would have liked to be her friend. ...it wasn't like it would have been awkward since we didn't have a serious intimate LTR


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Great work out at the gym. Weights and treadmill for an hour and a half. I burned over a 1000 calories.

Did some homework and now lamping out.

Thanks all for a great day.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Had a late class last night. Worked today. Very tired so I skipped the gym. Maybe I'll go tomorrow.

I celebrated my hard work and weight loss with some Chinese food for dinner. Married weight-235. Divorced weight-205.

Sent out some flirts on dating site. Counting days on calendar when divorce is legal and final.

It's so beautiful outside. Very silent in here. I can hear my watch ticking.

My legs and arms are so sore from exercising. 

Wondering why I need my mobile phone data plan now.

Can't wait for church on Sunday. 

Hope all TAM friends are doing well.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

Do something fun today buddy. Enjoy something, eat a lunch with a view, go to a museum. Get out.

I can feel you are melancholy. Keep chugging. Pretty soon you'll be at 200 and more buff


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Look for some volunteer opportunities. We're getting ready to do a waterway cleanup thing down here.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

I made a point of staying in most of the weekend. No gym, just some errands. Did chores and homework for my classes. 

Scrooge was around a lot mentally. It's OK. She doesn't control me.

Sad Eyes was in church yesterday. She looked beautiful and happy; it was the first time I've ever seen her smiling. And she was with a man and they left together in his car. Good for her.

I had 3 hits on dating site. The best of the three lives 65 miles away and she has 5 kids. Well...I'm thinking pen pals. Maybe movie buddy. 

Work today, gym tonight. I'm a little blue but lucky for everything I have.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

So I'm coming to terms slowly with my issue, I think. I am who I am. I cannot meet the world's expectations. Even if I try to, that gives the world the chance to reject and devalue me.

I have to like myself how I am and for what I am. I need to let the Father solve that which I cannot control. 

Went to the gym last night. SP Clone got on the treadmill in front of me. The view was VERY distracting. Oh man! I couldn't help but notice. I also saw her wedding ring. Some guy out there should be very grateful.

Dating site girl nick: Cute 65. She's got a full plate too. We've been emailing. I don't know how it could work. We'll see. She lives 65 miles away. On the other hand, I stayed faithful to Scrooge for a year while I was on the other side of the planet and had women throwing themselves at me.

BTW why does that happen? When you are with someone women act like you are it, but when you're single you become.....so what!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I wish you were spending more time hanging out with your guy friends than thinking about the women you could be with. It would be more healing for you.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

turnera said:


> I wish you were spending more time hanging out with your guy friends than thinking about the women you could be with. It would be more healing for you.


I understand that viewpoint. I don't have many guy friends and the ones I do have are busy with their wives and families and never want to do anything. Besides I stopped running with packs in my 20's. A few close friends is all I've ever needed and wanted. 

Are you male or female?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm female. My H doesn't do that either, run in 'packs,' but he still benefits from hanging out with guys. Just pick up the phone and arrange a meeting at a sports bar or something.


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## Convict (Feb 16, 2014)

Pictureless. Your doing a great job concentrating on yourself. Keep doing that and don't lose focus of that central goal. Every day.

All I can tell you, again, is don't let your emotional guard down with anyone or for anyone. It's still way too early. If u let it down, u subject yourself to getting hurt. Don't go there and never put yourself in that spot.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

turnera said:


> I'm female. My H doesn't do that either, run in 'packs,' but he still benefits from hanging out with guys. Just pick up the phone and arrange a meeting at a sports bar or something.


Thanks for your suggestions. I agree having time with friends outside the relationship is wise and helpful for some. Right now hanging out in a sports bar with my pals is not what I want.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good grief. Then ask them to get together for some flag football. Have them over for a barbecue. I'm trying to tell you that you (we all) NEED time apart from our spouse with same sex people; it's psychologically unhealthy not to. It helps you with depression, self esteem, resolve, and general good mood.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

turnera said:


> Good grief. Then ask them to get together for some flag football. Have them over for a barbecue. I'm trying to tell you that you (we all) NEED time apart from our spouse with same sex people; it's psychologically unhealthy not to. It helps you with depression, self esteem, resolve, and general good mood.




Thanks for your input. I know you're trying to help me and I appreciate it.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

So I've been buried up to my eyeballs in grad school homework, which is good because it keeps me busy, but bad because it takes away from my gym time.

I'm still 21 pounds away from my goal. All my clothes are too big and baggy. I'm going to need new threads soon. I'm broke. 

Been smoking more cigarettes again unfortunately. I'm at half a pack and that's while wearing the patch.

I have a coffee date set up with Cute65. New nick: Ms. D. She's divorced with 5 kids. Yowser! All of them are adults except for the youngest who is 15.

Ms.D seems cute in her photos. We've chatted on the phone several times. Red flags: she seems too polite (but maybe it's something I'm not used too?) and she seems to like me too much already (she said she saw a shirt she almost bought for me...we haven't even met yet?). 

Work on me: Safe Friends have been teaching me about looking for unconditional love where it can't be found. Still working on letting go of my share of our marital problems and forgiving myself. Man I was a jerk. But so was she. It's best this way because as bad as we were to each other, I never gave up or lost faith. Loyalty. ..it's love with its work clothes on.

I miss being in love. But I starting to be comfortable being single. Just don't like the loneliness. Miss the companionship and friendship.


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## AFPhoenix (Dec 24, 2013)

I know how you feel Pictureless...I miss being in love but also love the attention i'm getting now! There are several ladies (unfortunately some that are married) that have reached out to me wanting to date and have professed their crush on me. Good for the ego!


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

So it's been a year now since I moved out and the beginning of the end of our marriage. 

A year ago I was hurt, angry, stressed and confused. Trucking my belongings out of our place and couch surfing at relatives. 

A year later I'm stressed over my presentation I'm giving tonight in grad school. 

A year ago I had only one hope; working it out with Scrooge. A year later I have several goals, the least of which is my coffee date tomorrow night. 

I'm not down or up today; I'm busy trying to make myself a better today. 

I will never forget how I was a year ago and I will never allow myself to be like that again. Life is too wonderful for tears and pain. I want my next tears to be ones of joy and happiness. 

One year already. The divorce final next month. Every day I'm a little better.


----------



## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

So last night in class I survived audience snipers picking apart my presentation. 

Tonight I met Ms. D for coffee. It went so well it turned into a dinner date, then we hung out and talked while we strolled around taking in the sites.

She's really nice; smart, decent, kind, has manners. Her smile is contagious; she's a genuinely happy person. Did I mention she's my type? Petite brunette with blue eyes, very cute with a nice figure. We have the same beliefs about love, marriage, and religion too. I asked her out again and she said she'd love to.

We both agreed that it seemed like we've known each other for a long time. It's kind of weird and hard to explain. There were a few awkward silences. 

I think God has a great sense of humor. Ms. D's sister has the same first name as Scrooge, her stepfather has the same name as one of Scrooge's kid; and like Scrooge, Ms. D has given birth to twins.

When I got home I looked at myself in the mirror. I saw a smiling man; my face is thinner and I think I look a little younger than my age. I'm not the things Scrooge says I am.

Gym tomorrow.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Me report: things are kind of making sense this morning. As long as we're all happy in the now why be upset about the past? Why stress about a future we can't control. I leave it to my Father to sort out. I want us all to be happy. It was so beautiful outside yesterday. Too nice to feel sad and lonely. 

So...Scrooge and Smiles are off doing whatever with whomever; I hope your happy. Sad Eyes in church with whoever that guy is....hope your happy. Me? I'm learning to be happy being single. Making it through grad school will make me happy. 

Ms. D. called me last night. She's definitely a character which I'm finding more and more appealing. Think Teddy Roosevelt with lipstick and earrings. She's game for all of my outdoor adventures. She might be more athletic than me. In her unique way she spilled that she likes me. I teased her: have one of your girlfriends pass me a note in gym class.

I'm not used to dating avowed Christian women like her or Smiles. Intelligent, polite and considerate. Good looking, fit, active. Not....bimbo easy. I'm trying to live a more devoted life but it feels new and strange. I feel like a part of me is withholding my sexual ambitions. Should I try to keep that part in check or leave it to them to set the limit? Does controlling these urges send a confusing signal? Ms. D is so flipping cute I want to devour her!

We're getting together Saturday. She's driving to meet me-she offered (by map we live sort of close but in reality traveling to each other will be challenging). 

Emotionally I'm in a curious spot I have to acknowledge. I like her so far and I want to be fair and give her a chance but I'm not ga ga for her yet. Over protective and defensive?

I think often about all the activities I'd like for us to do together but they burst like a bubble when I contemplate the logistics of the commute. Seems like I'd be spending more time traveling than with her. Self defeating thinking?

Maybe I should think less and live more....


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would ask her what she thinks is appropriate timewise when it comes to dating and bedroom time. Follow her lead. 

And that 'why be upset about the past' thing? That's called indifference. You've arrived.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

turnera said:


> I would ask her what she thinks is appropriate timewise when it comes to dating and bedroom time. Follow her lead.
> 
> And that 'why be upset about the past' thing? That's called indifference. You've arrived.



After all this time....disagreeing with Turnera. 

First time for everything I guess. 

What do you want? Figure that out and act on it. 

If you want sex tomorrow give it a shot. If it doesn't work out, fine. No harm done. 

If you're not ready and she is? Set your boundary. 

This is about you dude. Not her. 

These situations are bigger than themselves. You're learning about yourself.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

turnera said:


> And that 'why be upset about the past' thing? That's called indifference. You've arrived.


Turnera, I'm trying; I'm really trying. The train has pulled into the station but I'm standing at the door of my car, looking down.

This afternoon instead of looking forward to this Saturday I was having Scrooge reruns. Not as bad as 5 months ago, not as long, but she is still haunting the house.

I think I need more of a routine shake up. My daily commute is a trip down Scrooge memory lane with all the sites and places we've been together over the years.

I'm thinking about getting a motorcycle to make my commute more interesting...to concentrate on piloting the cycle instead of daydreaming. Besides, bikes rocks...been a while since I had one.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> After all this time....disagreeing with Turnera.
> 
> First time for everything I guess.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your comments. I'll sleep on it.

The old me would have been tagging every thing in town by now. I'm not like that anymore. I need to figure this out.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

There will always be a part of you that loves her. Recognize that part and tell it it's ok. You can continue to love her. 

You're more than that one part though. There are parts of you that want to protect you from the pain and hurt she represents. Those parts are cool too. 

You are polarizing internally. You have a fight inside you. 

Be still. 

Recognize those parts. 

Love them. 

Then move on.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ceegee said:


> After all this time....disagreeing with Turnera.


I think you misunderstood. What I meant is to just have a discussion on what her view is on how fast things should move. Just to have that knowledge. I'd want my date to know that about me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> Turnera, I'm trying; I'm really trying. The train has pulled into the station but I'm standing at the door of my car, looking down.
> 
> This afternoon instead of looking forward to this Saturday I was having Scrooge reruns. Not as bad as 5 months ago, not as long, but she is still haunting the house.
> 
> ...


I think you need more time by yourself and less time with women.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

turnera said:


> I think you need more time by yourself and less time with women.


Why's that? 

Some say when you get out of a M/LTR to date many people, some say be alone for a while, some say run with the boys, some say sleep around, some say if you find someone new go slow with it.

I don't want to sleep around, I don't want to date multiple women, I don't want a rebound, and I don't want to be alone. I'm happy dating one woman at a time and if it develops into something serious, so be it.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

NO MAJOR LIFE DECISIONS UNTIL ONE YEAR AFTER DIVORCE!!!!

Period my friend...

I feel your pain, it's confusing, dating I mean. But... it takes your mind in good directions!


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## AFPhoenix (Dec 24, 2013)

I know how you feel Pictureless. I'm in the same boat. I have been dating a few women but have been really connected to BOFA. I just want to go slow, not lead her on, I don't want to get hurt either, and I hope it's not moving too fast.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

If you don't want to date because you're afraid of getting hurt then you probably will. 

Dating with a fear of being hurt puts you at a disadvantage. You make your decisions based on this fear. 

You don't need a replacement for your empty pedestal.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Ceegee said:


> If you don't want to date because you're afraid of getting hurt then you probably will.
> 
> Dating with a fear of being hurt puts you at a disadvantage. You make your decisions based on this fear.
> 
> You don't need a replacement for your empty pedestal.


:iagree::iagree:
Ceegee drove it out of the ballpark.
I was the same way the first year.
You have to be at the point you say eff it.

you have to be this guy...
George Costanza Does The Opposite - YouTube


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Thanks all for the input. I consider and value all opinions while I ponder.

I reread my last entry. I think too much. I need to follow my own advice more often and enjoy the now.

I like and miss sex. I've decided that in the future whatever happens with whomever I'm with will happen naturally on its own. I'll go at the pace I'm comfortable with. 

That goes for dating too. I don't think I'm in denial; I think I am aware and that I'm growing. I'll always have bittersweet memories and scar tissue on my heart. Beating myself up is futile.

Yesterday after I had a medical procedure done I found a text waiting for me on my phone from Ms. D. She wrote that she was praying for me and wishing me well. She asked me to call her when I was done to let her know I was ok. I find that very appealing. Little things like that mean so much to me. We talked twice on the phone yesterday for like 4 hours. 

I'm skipping the gym tonight to shop for a motorcycle that I really can't afford right now and I don't care. I spent the last 5 years putting off what I wanted. I'm not going to start living recklessly, but tomorrow's not guaranteed.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> Some say when you get out of a M/LTR to date many people, some say be alone for a while, some say run with the boys, some say sleep around, some say if you find someone new go slow with it. I don't want to sleep around, I don't want to date multiple women, I don't want a rebound, and I don't want to be alone. I'm happy dating one woman at a time and if it develops into something serious, so be it.


Do some real research. Most _professionals _will tell you that you need to be ABLE to be alone for at least 6 months to a year, simply to learn to be ok by yourself. That teaches you that you won't die if you're alone, that in fact you can be HAPPY if you're alone. It allows you to spend a LOT of time THINKING - oh no, not that! lol - and getting to know your own persona, psyche, morals, everything. Most of us move through life from one relationship to another and never stop long enough to figure out who we really are. And then, when you move into yet another relationship, you STILL have no idea who you are and you latch onto another person and meld your psyche into that other person's, so that you are never a complete, fulfilled person who doesn't NEED another person to make them happy. If you depend on another person to keep you happy, to keep you from being alone, to keep you from getting comfortable with yourself and maybe fixing some of your own crap...well, guess what happens? You get another failed relationship. You may even STAY in that failed relationship, but it never had a chance to become a GOOD one because you didn't take the time to come to love yourself first.

6 Reasons You Should Spend More Time Alone | Psychology Today

Why are men afraid of being alone after a breakup - Dallas New Relationships | Examiner.com

A little off-topic, but this one is SO apropos I couldn't resist:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/f...breakup-or-a-divorce.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


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## movealong (Aug 9, 2013)

turnera said:


> Why are men afraid of being alone after a breakup - Dallas New Relationships | Examiner.com


From the article:



> How do you learn this, you learn it by knowing yourself and you will only know yourself if you take the time to do so. So how do you do it, here are just a few dating tips:
> 
> 1. Stop going from woman to woman. Take at least 3 months to just be, after a break-up.
> 2. Stop thinking sex is the answer. Just because the sex is good, it doesn’t mean the relationship is good for you.
> ...


Number 4 made me spit coffee, but number 5 hit home.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Turnera and movealong,

I read the article. Lots of valid points. 

I've been living apart from Scrooge for over a year; we lived apart during our failed R attempt. We broke up for good in December. I see our relationship for what it was. I was her transitional husband. She shouldn't have married me and I shouldn't have settled for her. Neither of us wanted to be alone. She walked away so easily because she was never in it to win it. I was her 3rd divorce. It must get easier for her each time. I have no great loss, just a broken heart from a user. Sure it was a long 12 year relationship, but we were only married 4 years and the last one doesn't count for much since we were S.

I've learned from this. I don't claim to be healed but for me healing means getting back on the horse. Forgiving myself and Scrooge. Not judging new dates based on what she did, and not settling.

If I wanted just sex I would be living like the old me and I would have had plenty of that by now. I'm not looking to marry the next woman I date. 

I am comfortable with who I am. If grad school doesn't help me get a better job I'm content doing what I'm doing. I'm ok with failing. The only thing that can beat failure is a try.

I'm not going to date Ms. D for too much longer if I don't believe she's the one. Not fair to her or I. I'm not going to use her for sex---I doubt that she'd let me anyway. Lol. Try puting that one over her! She's sharp. I respect her so far, and I am going to give her a chance.

I admire Ms. D so much I hope we will be friends forever. Even if we crash and burn romantically. She's a quality PERSON. And so am I.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Had some challenging classes in grad school this week. My peers are so talented that I struggle with my self confidence. I got some papers back and I've got straight A's but then I wondered if the professor was just an easy grader. I talked with her after class and she said I'm doing great and I should stop doubting myself.

I mulled it over on the commute home. Why do I doubt my capabilities? Why do I think others are better and smarter than me? Why do I feel like I have to prove myself?

The phone rang, it was Ms. D. Just what I needed. I wasn't expecting her to call so it was nice seeing that she wanted to. We've talked every day this week. She impresses me more and more with her intelligence and common sense. The thing is, I'm not feeling or seeing the....fun. She hasn't shown her own playfulness yet. Scrooge and Smiles had their own quirks and charms, Ms. D hasn't displayed any yet. She laughs and plays when I do, but she doesn't lead on her own. I'm not Joe Pesci....what am I a clown? I'm here to amuse you? Oy! Personality. Show some. IDK. I'm not even sure if what I explained makes sense.

Saturday is going to be a great day. I'm putting a deposit down on a cycle, and I'm meeting up with Ms. D later on. It's nice having things to look forward to. Keeping an open mind with no expectations.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Hi all! Hope everyone had a great weekend. 

I bought a cycle Saturday. Can't wait to take delivery and start riding. 

Had a date Saturday night with Ms. D. It was wonderful. She seemed a lot more at ease and relaxed. Her personality and humor came out more which is great. Oh her laugh! So flipping cute; reminds me of The Nanny.

We're clicking fast. Lots of eye contact, smiles, body language, verbal cues. We hugged and kissed goodnight; it was awesome. She called me the next day. I'm digging it. My face feels like it's going to crack from smiling so much. This is exactly what I want right now. This speed, this pace: getting to know each other and developing a real bond of trust, respect, and gratitude. She seems like a quality woman so far and I'm very interested and attracted to her. Slow and steady Pictureless.

I have to remain healthily focused on me and my goals: grad school, new career, exercise. Church was great yesterday. I bought some new jeans this weekend with a 34 inch waist. I'm so pumped right now I feel like running. 

This is how I want to feel always. I'll make a note of this post for reference when the world tries to get me down.


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## AFPhoenix (Dec 24, 2013)

It's good to see you in the state you're in Pictureless. The tide seems to be turning!


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## RSFWID (Jun 5, 2013)

Pictureless said:


> Hi all! Hope everyone had a great weekend.
> 
> I bought a cycle Saturday. Can't wait to take delivery and start riding.
> 
> ...


Hey Brother,
I'm very happy to hear you're doing well. It your time to shine, keep up the pace and don't let anything stop you from being happy. Is she a nurse? Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

During last date with Ms. D it occurred to me that she might be under the impression that I've been divorced for years. She never asked how long I've been divorced. We talked about it and she didn't seem to have a problem. Later we hugged and kissed as we said goodnight.

Last night she said she's been thinking and praying about it. She said she believes I am over ex wife but she is concerned that I am still legally married.

Well, ya, kind of...or you can say I'm officially divorced in 25 days.

She and I are both serious Christians. She agrees that marriage is between God, husband, and wife. Caesar only cares about taxes.

I told her I understand her concerns; I asked her if she thinks we have sinned? She's not sure. I am, we have not, we've done nothing wrong. She says she kissed a married man which is wrong.

I offered to hit the reset button: no more dates for 25 days; and if we do date, no holding hands, kissing, or hugging. She laughed and said she's not sure she can do that, she said she liked holding hands and kissing. 

She said not seeing each other is not necessary, but she agreed about the other stuff; now I'm worried that she might not trust me.

I told her the reason why I brought it up at all is because she didn't ask, and that I want us both to be right from the beginning. She said she appreciates my honesty. I told her I want trust and respect in this relationship.

I know she's the stronger Christian. I hope this doesn't become an issue. I told her Id hate to lose her this way.

Any advice? Thanks.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You handled it well. Don't worry about it.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> During last date with Ms. D it occurred to me that she might be under the impression that I've been divorced for years. She never asked how long I've been divorced. We talked about it and she didn't seem to have a problem. Later we hugged and kissed as we said goodnight.
> 
> Last night she said she's been thinking and praying about it. She said she believes I am over ex wife but she is concerned that I am still legally married.
> 
> ...



Stronger Christian? How so? 

Does she believe in Christ more than you?

I once believed that relations with another - while waiting for D to finalize - was wrong. Up until a year after she kicked me out of my home and filed. 

Then I realized I was being held hostage against my will. Stuck in a purgatory. 

This is something that you and she will just have to work through. You have already made up your mind. She doesn't sound overly conflicted about it. 

Proceed.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

> Stronger Christian? How so?
> 
> Does she believe in Christ more than you?


LOL. You're right, worded that way I sound dumb....she showed me her cross (joke). I guess I meant to write that she is the more knowledgeable Christian.



> I once believed that relations with another - while waiting for D to finalize - was wrong. Up until a year after she kicked me out of my home and filed.
> 
> Then I realized I was being held hostage against my will. Stuck in a purgatory.


This is how I feel and I tried to explain it to Ms. D.



> This is something that you and she will just have to work through. You have already made up your mind. She doesn't sound overly conflicted about it.
> 
> Proceed.


Besides you and Turnera, I have another friend (female) who is also predicting Ms. D won't care.

It's my prayer she won't. She's a quality lady and I enjoy her company. Sex and marriage is the last thing I want from her-not now, maybe some day. I like talking and being with her.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> Besides you and Turnera, I have another friend (female) who is also predicting Ms. D won't care.
> 
> 
> 
> It's my prayer she won't. She's a quality lady and I enjoy her company. Sex and marriage is the last thing I want from her-not now, maybe some day. I like talking and being with her.



I'm not predicting she won't care. 

If she does she does. If she doesn't she doesn't. 

What matters is what you want. 

Would you wait for her? For this one particular woman that you have relatively little history with? 

Why?

Be very careful here.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> What matters is what you want.
> 
> Be very careful here.


I like her; it's what I want.

Be careful of what?


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

What a week! Very tired over such a busy schedule, and feeling proud for all I got done. Too much to mention but I was swamped.

Got the cycle. What a beast! I forgot how much fun it is to ride.

Had a dinner date with Ms. D last night. She is so lovely. My eyeballs popped out of my skull when I saw her in her outfit: what a vision. We both kept our promise regarding getting physical until the D is final....but at the end of the night I "helped" her get into her car and she smiled and approved of my silly ploy. We have a date tomorrow.

Ironic. I used to count the days until D sadly, now I'm counting the days eagerly.

Hope my fellow TAMsters are having a great weekend.

Don't forget to pray for our fallen warriors on this Memorial Day Weekend.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

Be careful... 

Divorce care email today

Too Soon
Day 162

One reason second marriages fail is because people are propelled into new relationships before they are ready. Sometimes friends and family will push you into a new relationship, thinking it will help you. A new relationship can feel great, but feelings do not guarantee a solid relationship down the road. Do not listen to friends who, though well-meaning, push you to move on before you are completely healed.

You must grieve your losses and know you are whole before you consider a new relationship. If you decide to get on with your life without dealing with the issues at hand, these issues will rise up again at a later time. When they do, the hurt and the pain will be even stronger.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Had an outdoor adventure date with Ms. D today. She's very athletic.

Thanks all for the advice. I am being careful; I'm not allowing myself to fall into my old relationship patterns from my past. At least I don't believe I am. 

I'm not rescuing or being rescued; we're just enjoying each other's companionship. And joking about our self-imposed limitations and restrictions. We joke that we're on probation.

My happiness doesn't rely on Ms. D. If she disappeared tonight I'd be disappointed in a healthy way, but I wouldn't be devastated. TAM has taught me that there are many women my age seeking decent, honest men.

I like so much of what I see in Ms. D. I'm not going to eliminate her just because of the timing concerning when we met. And I'm not putting her on a pedestal or making her the center of my universe. One date at a time. 

Advice sought: Obviously I'm relearning dating again. We've gone out about four times now. I've paid for everything so far; although she has bought coffee a couple of times. Not to sound like a cheapskate, but I can't afford dinner dates every time we go out. I told her that today in passing; I said something like.....we can't go to XYZ's to eat all the time. I'm not sure if she got it. 

At the end of today's date she asked what we're doing this coming Saturday. My plan right now is to not make specific plans unless she suggests something, where I can then say something like.....oh, are you treating me?

I'm not being a cheap jerk, but I want her to understand that I'm not Mr. Rich Guy. I think by now she should have offered to pitch in or leave the tip. 

Thoughts?


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

Ya, athletic should be good in the sack after you make her supper at your place


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

LBHmidwest said:


> Ya, athletic should be good in the sack after you make her supper at your place


Well.....

I really like and respect Ms. D. When the time is right for both of us and that happens I'm certain it will be amazing.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> My plan right now is to not make specific plans unless she suggests something, where I can then say something like.....oh, are you treating me?


Just be honest. "Money is a little tight this week. I would love to see you but no money in the budget to go to dinner."

Hopefully she will offer to pay since you have paid for everything thus far. If not, you can both stay in and watch a movie. Dates don't always require money.

Best of luck.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Hi all, just checking in. ..It's been a while since my last post. Where to begin? 

I finished my grad school Spring courses. I got two A's. I have the Summer off and will resume studies in the Fall. 

I've been enjoying my new motorcycle but Mother Nature is making sure I have just enough rain to keep me driving the truck a few times per week.

I got down to 199 lbs! But it only lasted 4 days. 

I went 9 days without a cigarette but I slipped earlier this week and I've been averaging about 5 per day. My new approach is try to quit every day. My coworkers are bad influences and enablers. 

I quit the gym because I wasn't getting there often enough to justify the membership fees. I have access to free gyms at my work and college that I need to explore. 

Church is going fine. I was asked to become a trustee but declined. I'm thinking I'd like to work on me more before assuming any position no matter what the authority. 

And I'm falling for Ms. D. And I'm sure she's feeling the same way. We talk every day and we keep finding excuses to see each other more and more. We're both counting down the days until the divorce is final and legal under both Ceasar and God. Nine days! 

Ms. D grabbed and held my hand the other day as we were walking in public; I reminded her of our agreement and she said she doesn't care anymore. I said ok but I still won't hug or kiss her until divorce is final. 

When divorce is final Ms. D and I are looking forward to worshipping together at each other's churches. We have some fun summer dates and outings already planned. And she looks so darn cute on my bike. 

I'm feeling very fortunate and blessed. Very grateful and thankful for what I have. I keep reminding myself and her to go slow and keep the Lord as the center of our relationship. 

I still have my Scrooge memories; they hurt less and remind me how fortunate I am now.

I still have my failings. When I get clingy for Ms. D I make myself busy instead of contacting her. Without fail she ends up contacting me which I take as a good sign. (TAM RULE-What they do, not what they say).

So this is where I'm at now. Cautiously opportunistic and enjoying the now. Ms. D. told me she's not interested in dating other guys and says she's going to start calling me her boyfriend to her family, friends and coworkers when the divorce is final. I'm more than okay with that. 

I know some say going right into another relationship so soon is wrong but it doesn't feel that way. We're going slow and it's working for us. I'm her first real steady since her divorce 5 years ago; she was married for 19 years and he cheated on her so she dumped him. So her and I are both guarding against rebound. 

We have much in common. I'm hopeful and excited. 

I hope all is well with everyone else. TTYL.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> Hi all, just checking in. ..It's been a while since my last post. Where to begin?
> 
> I finished my grad school Spring courses. I got two A's. I have the Summer off and will resume studies in the Fall.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear all this buddy!!!! Keep it slow and steady!


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

4 days to go until divorce is legal and final. I'm having mixed emotions. 

On the one hand part of me is feeling bad about the failing of my marriage. I know I honestly tried to save it but she was unwilling to give it another shot. 

On the other hand I'm feeling happy to be free and liberated. Now my happiness is completely under my control. 

Ms.D and I have been anxiously counting down the days. We both have confessed to each other our eagerness to hug and kiss on Monday. We both took the day off from work and we're beach bound. I feel like a teen. Not sure what will happen when I see her in her bathing suit. Ssshwing!

Part of me feels guilt over not planning to be in mourning on Monday. I'm trying to resolve that. I didn't want or pay for the divorce; I didn't call it quits or give up. I'm only responsible for my share of the mistakes. She had hers but I didn't say they were worth breaking up over. 

I'm hoping my feelings are normal. I know when Ms. D smiles at me and we're looking into each other's eyes it doesn't feel wrong. I'm hoping a serious kiss from her will send a message to my soul that says.....it's okay now, you don't have to worry anymore, all is forgiven.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> 4 days to go until divorce is legal and final. I'm having mixed emotions.
> 
> On the one hand part of me is feeling bad about the failing of my marriage. I know I honestly tried to save it but she was unwilling to give it another shot.
> 
> ...


I think many of us do need a connection, validation, love, etc.

Just don't put your happiness on the new lady my friend. She isn't responsible for it.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

: ) it's down to hours now!

When I go to sleep tonight I'll be married, when I open my eyes tomorrow morning I'll be legally divorced. Praise the Lord. 

To anyone reading this who is heartbroken: hang in there, you will make it! Do not believe what he or she said as they destroyed your relationship---YOU ARE WORTHY OF LOVE AND HAPPINESS. 

If you just got to TAM and you are going through divorce, please believe me--you will make it through this. You will survive. You will find love and be loved again.

Thank you everyone on TAM.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

Hang in there Pal.

Keep talking positive!

Sorry this happened to you but brighter days ahead.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

I'm free. 

No more pain, no more heartache, no more unhappiness.

Went to the court today and got a copy of my paperwork stating the divorce is legal and final.

Met up with Ms. D. We had lunch, did some shopping, and went to the beach. Then we took a ride on my cycle. Oh, and we made out like two teenagers. She's so wonderful.

Thank you Lord for hearing my prayers. A few months ago I was a rejected wreck. I asked for you to heal me. You did. I asked for you to fix my broken marriage. You did; you freed me from bondage.

Thank you TAM for schooling me about Walkaway spouses, cake eating, gas lighting, and the 180.

Today I have purpose, worth, and direction. I'm capable of loving and being loved. I understand who I am and I am working towards my goals. I am comfortable in my own skin. The world doesn't own me and nobody can hurt me.

I guess this will be last post on this thread. I'm now in the life after divorce category.


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## AFPhoenix (Dec 24, 2013)

Congratulations Brother! Leave some bread crumbs on the trail...I hope to join you on the other side very soon!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## movealong (Aug 9, 2013)

AFPhoenix said:


> Congratulations Brother! Leave some bread crumbs on the trail...I hope to join you on the other side very soon!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

Congrats!

Mine will be final after July 4th. I am no where near being ready for a new relationship, though I am beginning to see that I will be "able" to.


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## RSFWID (Jun 5, 2013)

Pictureless said:


> I'm free.
> 
> No more pain, no more heartache, no more unhappiness.
> 
> ...


I'm so happy for you bro. May he continue to give you his many blessing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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