# PIV does nothing for GF



## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

I'm new here, so i hope I am posting this in the right section.
I and my gf have been together for 1 year. She moved in with me 6 months ago, and that was when we started having sex. Before then we kissed a lot and fooled around.
The issue is that she says PIV sex does nothing for her and she can do without it. Says she'll do it because I'd love to. I almost always ensure she has an O before PIV, because she gets an O from making out and fondling/suckling on her boobs.
We've talked and tried many positions, but it remains the same. Now sex with her is no longer fulfilling to me, because she isn't responsive during PIV. She doesn't even like it if I last beyond 5 mins. Most times she'd immediately go and wash off and then sleep off after I come...and if my erection is sustained after I come, she looks disappointed.
Has anyone been in this situation? Does anyone feel cool about this? How do you handle this?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

PIV doesn't always do anything for some women (ie. orgasm). And then there are some women, like my wife, who prefer it to anything else. There are also some women to whom PIV is uncomfortable, or even painful. Some women don't produce enough lubricant to enable comfortable intercourse.

Basically, everybody's different.

The issue here, like it often is, is a lack of communication. These are answers your partner can provide. If you're not asking, you should be. If you are, and she's not really giving you an answer - same issue, lack of communication.

How experienced is she? Does she know her own body? Is she interested in sex, or do you feel she's "doing it for you"?

For what it's worth, if I read correctly, she's able to orgasm from kissing and touching her breasts alone, so those must be her erogenous zones. How about oral sex? Does she orgasm from that?

In short, everybody's different. It's communication that's key.

The only real problem I see here is that she seems to put some pressure on you when it comes to PIV, which is probably unfair. You seem to be concerned about getting her to orgasm the way she can, and that should be returned by her. But because you orgasm by way of something she doesn't particularly care for (PIV) and she's essentially hurrying you along, that's not cool.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*IMHO, the problem either is a psychological or a sexual one. To that end, professional psychological or sexual counseling for her, or even the both of you, is in order!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Bring her to orgasm via oral. She'll likely enjoy PIV much more afterward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

arbitrator said:


> *IMHO, the problem either is a psychological or a sexual one. To that end, professional psychological or sexual counseling for her, or even the both of you, is in order!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not disagreeing, but given that she apparently can orgasm from making out and boob touching (which is rare, but do-able), she's obviously capable of sexual pleasure.

I'm leaning more towards PIV does nothing for her (which is not uncommon) and it bores her, which she has no problem conveying to her boyfriend.

OP, it occurred to me - why not have your orgasm first, then give her hers? You said you like to give her one first, then go PIV for yours. Perhaps after she's had hers, she's "done". Coupled with the fact that she doesn't like PIV, it's easy to see why she's hurrying you up.

As I said, this is pretty much just lack of communication in the bedroom, IMO. As all men and women are different, everybody has different needs, wants and expectations when it comes to sex.

It took me years to figure out things about my wife, even though she enjoyed our sex life. I was always under the impression she liked it to last longer than she actually does.

Also, there's a reason so many women (that I know of, anyway) much prefer orgasm at the same time as their partner. Generally speaking, when you're done, you're done (male or female) and the arousal is over. The last thing you want to do is spend another 5, 10, 15 minutes getting your partner off when all you want to do is cuddle or roll over and sleep  When my wife and I finish at the same time, she's definitely much more satisfied than when either one of us finishes first and has to work on the other.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I agree with Alex but I am not so sure she's having Os by just making out and breast action, especially because OP, and probably his gf, seem a little inexperienced.
She may be just getting into things and then he goes right for the PIV which could also be why she seems so annoyed and bored.

PIV does nothing for me either, most women do not O from PIV. 

OP- How do you know she's Oing? Have you ever given her oral sex or manual vaginal stimulation to O?

When I have a good O it is not anything that looks or sounds like porn. Best I could describe it is somewhere between a seizure and an exorcism. Afterwards I can't even be touched or move or speak or hear or see..... and I just have to lay there while the room spins and my ears stop ringing and I stop shaking. 

If you can do that for her, before or after PIV, it may get her more into it


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I agree - I'm not sure she is climaxing. Does she masturbate? Maybe a mutual masturbation session would help you see what turns her on.

ETA - Due to her (and yours) inexperience, she may be shy about telling what works for her and she may not know herself! But it's not up to you to figure it out all on your own.

And if she doesn't, you may want to consider some sort of counseling or end the relationship. Too many men post here who are very unhappy with their sex life and saw the early warning signs but hung on out of obligation, love, hope... and now are miserable. You're young - don't settle.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

bb-jay said:


> Has anyone been in this situation? Does anyone feel cool about this? How do you handle this?


I had a similar experience in college with one GF that was a virgin. She admitted that she was very uncomfortable with her own vagina and was rather repulsed by the idea of even touching herself. She orgasmed easily to oral and enjoyed watching porn with me. When we had PIV, she did it for me but it was very uncomfortable for her. Then we had a pregnancy scare and she decided sex was not something she enjoyed anymore. We broke up later that year (I wanted to try to keep working things out, but she broke up with me mostly because she was not happy with her degree and transferred to another university). 

Later in life I met my wife. My experience with her is that she has always been very responsive to PIV and enjoys it. If she is not in the mood though, it does nothing for her. 

Generally speaking a women needs to be aroused and sexually receptive (as in she is begging you to put it inside) for PIV to feel good.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

alexm said:


> Basically, everybody's different.
> 
> The issue here, like it often is, is a lack of communication. These are answers your partner can provide. If you're not asking, you should be. If you are, and she's not really giving you an answer - same issue, lack of communication.


We've talked about it many times, especially outside of 'bed times'. That's when she said she can as well do without it. She even has no preferred position.



alexm said:


> How experienced is she? Does she know her own body? Is she interested in sex, or do you feel she's "doing it for you"?


She's had previous partners, and she told me she really loves making out and her boobs being paid lots of pleasurable attention to. She's into sex when we get it on and will even guide/urge me into her when she comes, but then it does NOTHING for her



alexm said:


> For what it's worth, if I read correctly, she's able to orgasm from kissing and touching her breasts alone, so those must be her erogenous zones. How about oral sex? Does she orgasm from that?


She isn't enthusiastic about oral sex...either giving or receiving. She shows some form of pleasurable response but has never O'd from it


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Have you tried incorporating toys like a vibrator, use that along with all the boobie/kissing stuff? Maybe that would give her a more intense O vs. just boobie/kissing, and could get her revved up for PIV.


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I agree with Alex but I am not so sure she's having Os by just making out and breast action, especially because OP, and probably his gf, seem a little inexperienced.
> She may be just getting into things and then he goes right for the PIV which could also be why she seems so annoyed and bored.
> 
> PIV does nothing for me either, most women do not O from PIV.
> ...


I discovered by chance that she gets an O from making out and playing with her boobs. It even happened on a day she still was still partially dressed. She suddenly broke off the kissing and then began to moan aloud for about 10 seconds, then shuddered lightly and held on to me tightly...not wanting anymore of my 'assaults', as she needed to get off her 'high'.
The 'session' ended there, and I later asked her if she O'd and she said "yes".
Subsequent times...playing with her boobs is one sure way to get her heated up, even when she wasn't initially feeling like it. If I ignore her boobs when she's close to an O, she'd grab my hands and place them on her boobs or push my head down on them.
So I can safely say she isn't faking.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Is PIV uncomfortable / unpleasant for her, or just neutral? If the latter can you combine it with breast play since that seems to work for her?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Maybe you two can do some reading, together, and explore sex a bit more. Sometimes people get used to doing one thing, and don't try anything new to see how fun it could be.

Try reading "Sheet Music" and "She Comes First" and see if you can open a dialogue about each of you would like to try.

At some point, you have to consider that you just aren't sexually compatible. It happens.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> Is PIV uncomfortable / unpleasant for her, or just neutral? If the latter can you combine it with breast play since that seems to work for her?


Yes, try doggy style, for example, so your hands are free to play with her breasts during PIV.


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

Hello OP, 

Run for the hills my friend. You're young and go find someone that is compatible with you when it comes to sex. If you're concerned now and continue to be with this girl it will only get worse. 

Trust me I know through experience. Some women will not change and then wonder why men go off with other women. Save yourself a headache, find a girl that likes to give and receive and in your case likes PIV. Enjoy life and good luck


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

norajane said:


> Maybe you two can do some reading, together, and explore sex a bit more. Sometimes people get used to doing one thing, and don't try anything new to see how fun it could be.
> 
> Try reading "Sheet Music" and "She Comes First" and see if you can open a dialogue about each of you would like to try.
> 
> At some point, you have to consider that you just aren't sexually compatible. It happens.


I am always up for trying new things and I usually take the lead. She obliges most times. I'll try getting the books you talked about.
Lately I have been considering the fact that we're not sexually compatible, and it might be a really big issue for me. No shame... I love passionate exciting and fulfilling sex.


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

I'm in the same situation but married. If sex is a top priority for you and yyou're not getting what you want in the bedroom find someone else. Don't get stuck in the relationship especially when you are already thinking you two are not compatible


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@bb-jay, what do you mean by "she isn't responsive during PIV. "?


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## Ol'Pal (Aug 24, 2015)

Juice said:


> I'm in the same situation but married. If sex is a top priority for you and yyou're not getting what you want in the bedroom find someone else. Don't get stuck in the relationship especially when you are already thinking you two are not compatible


Excellent advice, Lots o' fish in the sea buddy.


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

In response to your question @richardsharpe...she's just neutral in a way that takes the passion out of it. @norajane... Truth is she's a 'one and dusted' kinda person. As in... once she comes, she isn't interested in anything sexual, no matter the mix. So she just allows PIV because I haven't had an O. I've tried your suggestion many times


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

Juice said:


> I'm in the same situation but married. If sex is a top priority for you and yyou're not getting what you want in the bedroom find someone else. Don't get stuck in the relationship especially when you are already thinking you two are not compatible


How are you coping???


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

Lila said:


> @bb-jay, what do you mean by "she isn't responsive during PIV. "?


She'd just lie down...sometimes with eyes open, other times she'd bite her lips with eyes shut. No words or expressions. She'll just flip in any position I turn her and never takes the lead or initiates. The best she does is guide/urge me into her when she's been really turned on and turned or had an O.
Doesn't that count for unresponsive?


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

Not good my friend. We have two kids, so it makes the situation even worse or I'd be gone. 

We have gone to counseling had to stop due to financial reasons. I have tried books, toys, communication, and other methods and is still the same ol story. She will not take the time to research or learn her mind, body, and the things that I need in this relationship. It's very very frustrating and she thinks I'm crazy due to how much I think about sex.


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

Juice said:


> Hello OP,
> 
> Run for the hills my friend. You're young and go find someone that is compatible with you when it comes to sex. If you're concerned now and continue to be with this girl it will only get worse.
> 
> Trust me I know through experience. Some women will not change and then wonder why men go off with other women. Save yourself a headache, find a girl that likes to give and receive and in your case likes PIV. Enjoy life and good luck


#sighs
I wish I could find comfort at the hills... :laugh:


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

Juice said:


> Not good my friend. We have two kids, so it makes the situation even worse or I'd be gone.
> 
> We have gone to counseling had to stop due to financial reasons. I have tried books, toys, communication, and other methods and is still the same ol story. She will not take the time to research or learn her mind, body, and the things that I need in this relationship. It's very very frustrating and she thinks I'm crazy due to how much I think about sex.


Wow!
I am sorry to hear. Can't even imagine what you're going through


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

Btw. We have sex 1-2 times a week sometimes more. The problem is I would like quality over quantity. Something that she doesn't understand. She thinks you just do and go about your day. It's the most unconnected feeling. 

Basically she is selfish and a prude woman who tricked me when I was young and dumb


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Have you tried positions that free your hands to play with her boobs while you're having sex? Her boobs seem to be her erogenous zone much like the clitoris is for other women. Focus on stimulating those during PIV.


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

You can man. Don't settle for less and get what you want in a relationship . Workout and be healthy and that special someone will come.


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

Juice said:


> Btw. We have sex 1-2 times a week sometimes more. The problem is I would like quality over quantity. Something that she doesn't understand. She thinks you just do and go about your day. It's the most unconnected feeling.
> 
> Basically she is selfish and a prude woman who tricked me when I was young and dumb


GF says we're having sex because she 'knows it's important for the relationship'


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

Lila said:


> Have you tried positions that free your hands to play with her boobs while you're having sex? Her boobs seem to be her erogenous zone much like the clitoris is for other women. Focus on stimulating those during PIV.


Yes Lila...we've tried them. I thought to leverage on that knowing that's her primary erogenous zone, but it doesn't do nada. Doggy, cowgirl, etc.


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

Juice said:


> You can man. Don't settle for less and get what you want in a relationship . Workout and be healthy and that special someone will come.


Thanks for the encouragement Juice. I hope you find strength and a miracle happens for you


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

Sounds like my wife. She should want to have sex and not turn it into duty sex.


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

Thanks I need it. I have had women throwing themselves at me the last 3 years, but I never take the bait. I'm not a cheater and don't intend to be one. I'm not giving up yet that's too easy. Good luck and like another poster said. Plenty of fish in that sea


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

Bb-Jay does she complain or sigh when trying other positions like doggy or reverse c-girl?


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

I just don't wanna be seen as a jerk for quitting the relationship on grounds of sexual compatibility.
Loyalty is my strength, so I'm torn.


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

Juice said:


> Bb-Jay does she complain or sigh when trying other positions like doggy or reverse c-girl?


She doesn't 'complain' per se. But she just wants me to O. When I change position, she says I am deliberately trying to delay my O. She's reluctant if I still maintain an erection after an O


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

bb-jay said:


> I just don't wanna be seen as a jerk for quitting the relationship on grounds of sexual compatibility.
> Loyalty is my strength, so I'm torn.


IMO, sexual compatibility is a very important part of establishing a long term relationship. You've only dated for a year. It's best to break off an incompatible relationship as soon as possible. Don't waste any more of her or your time. Break it off now and give both of you an opportunity to find more compatible partners.


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

Oh man. Don't feel bad. If you rank sex a top priority then find a girl that will take care of you in that department. 

This will haunt you in the long run if it's a concern for you now. I'm 11 years married and I wish I had the courage back then to break up with her then. I always thought ithat was going to get better or we could work on it later. 

I have to say that the quality has gotten a little better over the last couple years but still that compatibility is missing. I constantly get sighs and complaining when trying new things.


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

Lila said:


> bb-jay said:
> 
> 
> > I just don't wanna be seen as a jerk for quitting the relationship on grounds of sexual compatibility.
> ...



Lila nailed it.


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## bkyln309 (Feb 1, 2015)

Im a woman whose XH never wanted sex even before marriage. It does not get better. 

For me, sexual drive and compatibility is critical because I lived in a sex starved marriage and it wasnt fun. I wont ever go down that path again. SEX is important.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

bb-jay said:


> GF says we're having sex because she 'knows it's important for the relationship'


That pretty much tells you all you need to know. She doesn't enjoy sex, and she's only doing it because she thinks she's supposed to. That might work for now, but you can bet she will eventually get very, very tired of having sex only because "it's important for the relationship." Then she will start to resent it, and will eventually stop doing it because she has grown to hate it. 

If you want passion and to feel loved, you need to be with someone who enjoys you and enjoys having sex with you not someone who does it because she thinks she has to.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

norajane said:


> That pretty much tells you all you need to know. She doesn't enjoy sex, and she's only doing it because she thinks she's supposed to. That might work for now, but you can bet she will eventually get very, very tired of having sex only because "it's important for the relationship." Then she will start to resent it, and will eventually stop doing it because she has grown to hate it.
> 
> If you want passion and to feel loved, you need to be with someone who enjoys you and enjoys having sex with you not someone who does it because she thinks she has to.


If she's unwilling to try, that's the issue. I ended my marriage, not for sexual incompatibility, but because he wasn't interested in trying for an emotional connection. It wasn't important to him. It all comes down to connection, whether in the bedroom or out. If one partner is unwilling, you have your answer. Simple as that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Personally I could never be with someone who couldn't orgasm from PIV, I like it, I need it, whether it's ego or the closeness of both cumming together from straight PIV, staring at each other and just both having a massive O, whatever I need it. If I can't make a girl cum from my c*ck then I need to move on.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

knobcreek said:


> Personally I could never be with someone who couldn't orgasm from PIV, I like it, I need it, whether it's ego or the closeness of both cumming together from straight PIV, staring at each other and just both having a massive O, whatever I need it. If I can't make a girl cum from my c*ck then I need to move on.


Wow, that pool is so small. I hope I never feel that pressure.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Wow, that pool is so small. I hope I never feel that pressure.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


I don't think it's that small of a pool, I haven't had many issues with this with past girlfriends. it's just a preference of mine, nothing feels better than holding my woman tight, kissing, and having her orgasm just from penetrative sex, I'm sure many guys are OK without that. I'm just not one of them, I wouldn't enjoy the sex in the marriage if it was all about oral and toys and not my c*ck. Oral and fingers are for foreplay, my c*ck is for the final act. I'm just being honest. A quick oral session is great I love going down on my woman, and if she O's and that's all she needs at that moment that's fine. But I need pretty often for her to cum on my penis from PIV, or I would feel liek she just was not digging me at all.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Only about 20% of women can O with PIV so yes, that's a small pool.

When you consider all other factors to look for in a partner, excluding 80% of the female population gets tricky. It has nothing to do with how much a woman likes a man, it's just how we are built.


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

I understand that a lot of women can't O from that alone.

I guess I am one of the rare ones where I can. I can easily O from it without clitoral stimulation. Not the soft slow romantic stuff or the fast shallow rabbit phucking- we can do that, but it will not get me off unless there is also clitoral stimulation. It has to be deep and hard where it is causing pain from hitting my cervix which turns to pleasure. I can O repeatedly like this.

Have you tried different techniques in varying positions and not just varying positions?


EDIT: I missed a few of your posts initially. Sorry man but your girl is NOT into sex. If this is a deal breaker for you, you should strongly consider ending your relationship. She is a starfish, non-participative. If she is not willing to work on it, I don't know what else you could do.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Get the book "Women's Anatomy of Arousal" by Sheri Winston before you throw in the towel. Read it together and try her tips. I think you both have some learning to do about a woman's body.

Here is Winston' s web site:

Book: Women's Anatomy of Arousal | Intimate Arts Center | Intimate Arts Center


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

If you really like this girl it's tough, remember, there are many people here on TAM who thought they were sexually comparable before marriage and even early on, only to find themselves in a bad situation later in their marriage.

That's why I'd be sure to try everything first. If she has guilt or is uneducated about her body or sex in any way, this can make PIV just no good at all. If that might be the case I'd say see a sex therapist so she can learn a few things.

If she isn't fully aroused, PIV won't feel good. She might even seem "into it" but he body might not be ready. I've been in this situation. My W and I use a vibrator and she orgasms every time we do, but she didn't enjoy PIV. I mean for years.

Is it possible you are girthier than you think, making PIV uncomfortable? Take a dollar bill and if it wraps around that's 6". Many guys are 4 and change to 5 and change. But if there isn't any slack you're big and require more fireplay for some women to make it comfortable.

Maybe the lube is bothering her.

In the end you can't figure this out, but if she is receptive to finding ways to enjoy it more (more us all that's needed actually) then you might be able to get past this.

Bottom line is the V can be fickle so if you can find out that something like I've suggested might be a problem then maybe you can address this.

If she relaxes and enjoys it more her attitude might change.


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

If she isn't fully aroused, I don't attempt PIV. There is the manifest evidence of wetness before PIV. It's the reason why quickies or spontaneous kitchen sex have been sacrificed (tragic), because it's no fun for her. She remains expressionless.
Don't want to introduce a vibrator or other toys at this stage for fear she might get hooked on it, and then I'll lose out (my d!ck feels better than any dildo).
Wished she belonged to that 20% that really love, crave and enjoy PIV.

#sighs...but why are women sooooo cOMpL!CateD??? 

#justranting


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

I am willing to learn. The thing is that I feel I've met a brick wall already since she flat out told me that PIV does nothing for her, and she can as well do without it. There are few times when I give her an O and then leave her alone - she'll just turn around and voila! She's asleep! (she sleeps off whenever she has an O, whether it's morning, afternoon or night)


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

The vibe would be for her clit, not for inside. Most women need clitoral stimulation to have an O. If she's having only breast Os she isn't experiencing the full potential of her own body and that could be why she is so uninterested in it in general. 

You can use a vibe on her clit during PIV or before or after. You can also use your fingers, just be careful not to be too rough. There are a lot of videos, even on youtube, about how to manually stimulate a woman. 
But I would suggest if you go the vibe route she try it out on her own first. Get the hang of it, figure out what she likes. Then she can show you.



bb-jay said:


> Wished she belonged to that 20% that really love, crave and enjoy PIV.


You don't have to have PIV Os to crave and love PIV. 
Once you learn your way around a woman's body you can find all kinds of fun ways to have fun PIV _and _a clitoral O for her. 

But sexual chemistry is important so you need to have a partner you can figure it all out with, have fun with, explore with.


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

All of this advice for OP is great. If his partner is willing to work on learning new things that's awesome. I think this is more of a hassle for bb-jay because it's only his GF and not his wife. I think he also stated that she doesn't like giving or receiving oral. With that said I see more problems down the road when it comes to foreplay with this woman not only PIV.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

bb-jay said:


> I am willing to learn. The thing is that I feel I've met a brick wall already since she flat out told me that PIV does nothing for her, and she can as well do without it. There are few times when I give her an O and then leave her alone - she'll just turn around and voila! She's asleep! (she sleeps off whenever she has an O, whether it's morning, afternoon or night)


I think it's her who has to learn, and that's the roadblock.

(in)compatibility is an interesting word, because it can be used to describe more than one issue in a sexual relationship. There are those relationships that require some communication and exploration which can be turned into great sex, and those that can't.

I actually think you belong in the former category, not the latter - the issue is that your partner is less than willing to to communicate and explore, at least enough to remedy this.

The way you're describing your sex is this: she gets off, then it's your turn. By this point, she's done, and uninterested. The fact that PIV does nothing for her actually makes this worse - it's not a byproduct of this, IMO, it's a whole other issue. And as far as issues go, not enjoying PIV, as said numerous times here, is common.

So what I see to be the real issue here is not the lack of interest in PIV, but rather the fact that you two are not orgasming together, or at least within a short enough time frame between each other.

In other words, she is "one and done", and once she's done, she loses any and all interest in sex. Again, this is also common (usually moreso in men, I think). So picture it: she gets aroused, she gets off, then she has to spend x-amount of time waiting for you to get off. Couple that with it being in a manner that has zero pleasure for her, and you can understand her lack of motivation.

It's still not cool, of course, but all the same. I imagine there are plenty of men out there whose female partners are not as easy to get off as others, and they have to continue on after they've orgasmed. As most men are "one and done", it tends to take away from the over all experience if you have to keep going for however long afterwards to finish your partner off.

Where there's an incompatibility, IMO, is not necessarily in your sex life, but rather with her willingness and ability to, for lack of a better term, "go the extra mile" to ensure you are satisfied as well.

PIV will likely never do anything for her - and that's okay, and again, fairly common. However, the timeline seems to need reversing, at least once in a while, to where YOU are the one finishing first, then focusing your attention on her orgasm in whichever manner works for her.

My wife is multi-multi-orgasmic, but even she has her threshold. I've learned over the years that she does not want to be the one to finish first and then feel like she has to continue on for my sake. It still happens from time to time, and for my part, it's difficult to read when she's DONE, done.

We've talked about it. For her, she WANTS me to finish quickly (but not TOO quickly). This makes her feel desirable. She also does not particularly want to express any more energy than she already has after several orgasms... (none of us do!) For her, her ideal session is ~10-15 minutes, tops, I finish at or around the same time as her, and we both collapse together. For many years, I was under the impression she wanted me to last and last and last, while she had 4, 5, 6 O's. But this made her feel like I wasn't enjoying MYself, and it was solely for her pleasure. This is actually the way I like it, I'm a pleaser. But the optics of it made her feel like it was all about her, and not about me.

Pro tip: both men and women want to feel desired, like their parters can't control themselves during sex. But they also want their partners to pay attention to them and their needs, as well. It's a balancing act. No woman in her right mind wants the 2-pump-chump who rolls over right afterwards. They want theirs, too.

And this is where I got the (wrong) impression that my wife wanted a guy who could last. The first time we had sex, I paid a lot of attention to her and I finished hard myself. It was passionate. It was like that for the first several months until we settled into a rhythm. During that time, she had remarked that her ex, as well as previous exes, never spent as much time on her as I do, and did the stereotypical male "pound away and roll over" thing.

So I took this as the compliment it was and went with it. I prided myself on getting my wife off over and over, and in many different ways. But the by-product of that was that sex turned into "all about her" - which it was, even though I had a great time, every time. But psychologically, no matter what I told her, she felt it was very one-sided.

Now, I've dialled it down. I can still get her off several times, but I can also get her off once and then focus on myself - and she's happy. We often finish together these days, or very close. Neither one of us feels any pressure any more. And on the odd occasion where she's done and I still have a ways to go (it happens, I'm 40!), I can finish myself. I've also learned she rather likes that, watching that is, and occasionally this will turn her on again (after she's had a moment to collect herself) and this sometimes turns into her helping, or even just hopping on and finishing me off.

Long story short - our sex is different each time, after being pretty much the same for several years. Even though she was having multiple orgasms then it was my turn, it became tedious. She WANTS me to get off quickly sometimes (as long as she's had hers!). On rare occasions, if she wants more and I'm done, she'll pull out her toy and have another one on her own.

For your girlfriends part, it seems as though sex is generally the same each and every time. I don't mean exactly the same positions, moves, whatever. Just that it's basically her getting off first, then having to wait on you for however long it takes.

Her attitudes about this are concerning, but I think you owe it to yourself (and her, I suppose), to mix it up. Get yourself off first. Get her off, have a little PIV, then pull out and finish yourself. Etc.


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

alexm said:


> I think it's her who has to learn, and that's the roadblock.
> 
> (in)compatibility is an interesting word, because it can be used to describe more than one issue in a sexual relationship. There are those relationships that require some communication and exploration which can be turned into great sex, and those that can't.
> 
> ...


I am looking for a solution, but I am just at a loss of what to do.
We seemingly can't explore other means of having an O because she feels she's told me outrightly everything about her sexual anatomy.

she really doesn't like oral (even though I am a HUGE fan of giving and receiving). If I attempt to go down on her, she'll sometimes pull me up or clamp her thighs shut. Other times, she'd let me, but she has never O, even though i enjoy feasting between her legs.

If i try to manually stimulate her clit or finger her, she pulls my hand away. She won't give a BJ, and if I assert in the heat of things, she'll do it for about 2 minutes and that's all. So the only option for me to O is PIV. In some few occasions when she's given me a HJ in the shower, she never wanted anything about sex afterwards, even though I was game (sometimes I can get hard again after about 5 mins, or maintain an hard-on after an O)


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

So your sex life is nothing like what you want, and she has no desire to change a thing about it because she doesn't really like sex any other way than the very limited way she will accept it. 

Why are you with her? Is she is a kind, thoughtful, fun partner who makes you feel like a million bucks when you're with her? Is she super hot?


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

Juice said:


> All of this advice for OP is great. If his partner is willing to work on learning new things that's awesome. I think this is more of a hassle for bb-jay because it's only his GF and not his wife. I think he also stated that she doesn't like giving or receiving oral. With that said I see more problems down the road when it comes to foreplay with this woman not only PIV.


The r/ship was not just to be an LTR, marriage was the real intention. She feels 'comfortable' and secure already, and trusts that I love her much. Now I am beginning to reconsider the future of the r/ship as she seems not to be paying attention to my concerns.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

bb-jay said:


> The r/ship was not just to be an LTR, marriage was the real intention. She feels 'comfortable' and secure already, and trusts that I love her much. Now I am beginning to reconsider the future of the r/ship as she seems not to be paying attention to my concerns.


she'll think your shallow for leaving 'just because of sex'.

but, you've got to do what you've got to do.


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

norajane said:


> So your sex life is nothing like what you want, and she has no desire to change a thing about it because she doesn't really like sex any other way than the very limited way she will accept it.
> 
> Why are you with her? Is she is a kind, thoughtful, fun partner who makes you feel like a million bucks when you're with her? * Is she super hot?*


That last question got me laughing hard.
Yes she's kind and thoughtful. I just love being with her, even though she makes me feel only like a thousand or a hundred bucks many times. She isn't 'super hot' (super hot doesn't do much for me).
I am becoming afraid of investing so much time in this relationship only to find out it wasn't worth it, because this will lead to more issues later. Hence the reason I am seeking for advice.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Well, keep reading the threads here about sexless marriages and incompatible sexual drives and desires in marriage. This issue makes a lot of people miserable.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Look - it seems clear to me that she is stuck and probably embarrassed to explore further because she thinks she knows the score. You're equally stubborn - you won't introduce vibrators for your own selfishness.

I see this as a relationship test and not a sexuality comparability test. It has all the same issues you'll find in your mundane married life issues, including poor communication. Marriage is about understanding and meeting your partners needs. And its reciprocal - they should meet yours. When they're not being net - and neither of yours are sexually - then you find out if you are marriage material.

What I mean is this - here you are considering leaving her - but have you told her this? I bet not. So getting her to understand your needs is tough - and will be in any relationship. It sounds silly but it's not. Get his needs her needs a book that will explain you need for sex in a way she will understand. You could learn a few things about her needs and what you may be missing too.

The vibrators - dude! This is HER body - she has to feel comfortable that you cherish her and will make sex safe. Since most women can orgasm from clitoral stumulation, why in the he77 are you not introducing that????

A long long time ago I was in your situation. My w could even orgasm from breast stimulation too. So I spent a lot of time there. PIV wasn't pleasurable so I bought a vibrator after reading about it. I've been buying then now for 20-25 years. I just bought a portable Magic Wand - holy cow! And I just found out she organs better on her stomach. Still finding out new stuff. Yes we always go to the vibrator for her orgasm. She likes me to O first and I like her to first. Whatever.

We're still working on PIV. I got a silicone dildo and brought it in. She wasn't thrilled but it ended up getting her more aroused - along with a vibrator and BJ - and PIV was smooth sailing after that (I'm a little wider and she had done vaginal thinning with age making it painful). We thought she had been aroused enough before, but with a little oral (she's very skittish about me going there still), a vibrator, and some sexy talk, we found the old V got even more ready for the real thing.

Why all the TMI? Because I've been with her 30+ years and the sex and our bodies and desires and hormones continually change through life. But we have to keep working to make the sex great.

So before you leave her, let her know the gravity of the situation. Let her know that great sex is a requirement for you so she can work with you. Tell her she needs to trust you and let you try oral sometimes and keep trying (maybe after a glass of wine and a shower) and after she has a chance to get aroused first. You bring vibrators in and let her operate them (guys sometimes overdo the pressure and placement). Try different vibrators. Magic wand plug in is way too powerful though. You can use your hands and mouth gently on her breasts at the same time (she may be over stimulated otherwise). Tell her you need someone who loves to do a good bj and show her sites where women talk about how to enjoy it for other women - this is very common. Get some whipped cream and pretend you're a stripper or something and role play if you have to get get to put aside her thought maybe and act "****ty" which may be what she is trying to avoid. IDK continue to be creative (I know you are trying hard so dar).

This will force you guys to truly communicate and really ask you to work hard for each other's needs.

Maybe it won't work out, but I think it might.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

norajane said:


> Well, keep reading the threads here about sexless marriages and incompatible sexual drives and desires in marriage. This issue makes a lot of people miserable.


Btw I totally agree with norajane - but feel like she has a wall you can break through. If not, that's another story...


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

bb-jay said:


> That last question got me laughing hard.
> Yes she's kind and thoughtful. I just love being with her, even though she makes me feel only like a thousand or a hundred bucks many times. She isn't 'super hot' (super hot doesn't do much for me).
> I am becoming afraid of investing so much time in this relationship only to find out it wasn't worth it, because this will lead to more issues later. Hence the reason I am seeking for advice.


unless sex is not real important to you and is a lot subordinate to other qualities you are seeking. you pretty much know the score and what you're getting into. what you DON"T want to do is make the wrong choice and be miserable for years or end in divorce (same thing).

only you know the answer. contrary to popular thinking, not all men think sex is super important. our culture tells us so, but our culture is sometimes 'full of it'. some men are seeking qualities in a woman that go beyond sex. some men can live happily with infrequent, ordinary sex, or take care of themselves and be happy.

is this woman a wonderful woman that you want to live the rest of your life, knowing the sex will probably not get better, or worse years down the road? maybe so.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

bb-jay said:


> The r/ship was not just to be an LTR, marriage was the real intention. She feels 'comfortable' and secure already, and trusts that I love her much. Now I am beginning to reconsider the future of the r/ship as she seems not to be paying attention to my concerns.


If she is like this now, before you are even married, she is not going to improve after marriage. Likely it will get worse. Someone else described it earlier in the thread on how it will eventually turn into resentment and then no sex. She may want sex when trying for a baby. Then after she gets pregnant, the sex will disappear again.

If she is unwilling to do anything about this and you decide to break it off with her, do not frame it as sexual incompatibility. It is that she is not concerned about meeting your needs. (She may feel that she is, but rushing you to orgasm and her generally not enjoying sex is not meeting your needs.) That is the bottom line problem here. She says that sex is important to the relationship, but I don't think she gets it. She seems to think it's just about having an orgasm and that's it. You can do that yourself. Why do you need her if that's all there is to it?

People have different views on sex. It's important for a husband and wife to have similar views, so they are both having their needs met.

Ask yourself this: If you knew that she was like this before you moved in, would you have moved in with her at all?


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

Bb-Jay you might have it worse than me after all. Your missing out on things you like to do. If you like going down on her and she stops you, that alone raises a red flag. Forgot about a PIV O you can't even enjoy foreplay. 

I'm telling you this will drive you crazy down the road, and if you marry her it will get worse. Bb-Jay you said that you are very sexual and like giving and receiving find someone with the same characteristics. You really haven't invested that much invi this relationship since you have no kids, not married, and only been together a year. 

After reading this thread. I'm re-evaluating some of the things about my wife, because I might not have it that bad


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Nice one juice - yeah I thought my life sucked but now that I see yours mine don't seem so bad 

I still stick by my long lost above - you might be able to get her past this


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Bring her to orgasm via oral. She'll likely enjoy PIV much more afterward.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


With my recent ex, if I accidental got her over the plateau with oral, that was it. she just wanted to go to sleep (roll over/mumbling, etc).


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> What I mean is this - here you are considering leaving her - but have you told her this? I bet not. So getting her to understand your needs is tough - and will be in any relationship. It sounds silly but it's not. Get his needs her needs a book that will explain you need for sex in a way she will understand. You could learn a few things about her needs and what you may be missing too.


No-one should have to react to relationship ultimatiums, especially not before marriage - if they're not on the same page then best end it now or one or both partners are going to spend the rest of their lives only living half a life.

Best to leave friends, have the fun, support each other, make time for each other, and develop marriage interests elsewhere. and don't have kids.


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

I have read a few threads here and some of the cases are really pathetic. I really do not want to be like those. This forum has been an eye opener for me as I have seen that this might be the result of other underlying issues in the r/ship, and sex can have a -ve or +ve effect on other aspects of the r/ship or marriage as well 
I'm going to be home alone this holiday because gf is going to visit her family, so it'll be easy for me to do some evaluation and take a decision


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

spotthedeaddog said:


> TheTruthHurts said:
> 
> 
> > What I mean is this - here you are considering leaving her - but have you told her this? I bet not. So getting her to understand your needs is tough - and will be in any relationship. It sounds silly but it's not. Get his needs her needs a book that will explain you need for sex in a way she will understand. You could learn a few things about her needs and what you may be missing too.
> ...


Wow could not disagree more. Stating your needs is not an ultimatum; it is a relationship requirement.

It is the unstated needs that remain held that brew resentment and allow people to stay in miserable relationships.

OP I believe you have an obligation to talk to this girl honestly. As you've stated, she feels safe enough in your relationship and love (?) to assume you two are moving forward. You have an obligation to her - and more importantly to yourself - to learn how to identify your needs and articulate them.

I'm not in any way suggesting that we always get all our needs met. But sex is an important one - important because it is the #1 relationship need for most men - and important because most women (particularly young women) don't realize it is so important to men because it rarely is the number one need for them.

So regardless of where you end up with her, take the honest and frankly loving approach and give her a chance to learn and see if she wants to grow. I guarantee you will find you have to learn and grow to meet most any woman's needs that are not your priorities. (For example, did you know that something as simple as breaking out of a meeting to answer a simple phone call or texting promptly even under enormous work pressure can be profoundly important to many women and increase their respect and admiration of you? Most men I've seen over the years scoff at these things and mock the trivial matters their wives want to talk about - not realizing that the connection is everything.) Much to learn young one.

LOL just took a call from my wife and heard about the dog vomitting, S17 cleaning it up, holiday plans, dr visits, storm clouds, etc for the past 10 minutes and it was a great call and she laughed and felt good and I could hear her smiling. Her needs. Just sayin'

Good luck


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

It sounds like she's not very comfortable exploring her body, and maybe you're not making that much better.

You say she gets turned on and urges you into her, but then isn't very responsive. When she lets you do oral, she soon pulls you away. She's capable of O, even just from her breasts, but isn't very into sex with you in general.
It's possible she's just not very sexual. But how much have you really thought about your technique? Are you just trying the same things over and over again, and then getting pushed away? Maybe you should look up some techniques for giving better oral and try them out when she lets you down there. You might be able to get her attention and find something she likes better than what you've been doing. You said you get "some kind of a pleasurable response" when you down on her, so focus on that response and what makes it more pleasurable. Find out if she likes it fast or slow, hard or soft, direct or indirect... and whatever she likes, do that more!

You seem to focus a lot on what you like, what you want her to like, and what she doesn't like. But you don't talk a lot about what she DOES like. I wonder if you understand what she likes as well as you think. Maybe she doesn't even understand, and isn't very comfortable exploring that. It especially got my attention that you don't want to try a vibrator because you think she might like it too much. WTF? You want her to enjoy these encounters, right? Get a small vibrator, like maybe a bullet or an egg, and play around together. LOTS of couples use them happily.

If you want a positive response from her, you need her to enjoy what you're doing together. And that won't happen until you BOTH become a little more flexible and more willing to meet each other in the middle. Have a serious talk with her and let her know how strongly you feel about this. If she's interested in making it work, the two of you can work together to find things each of you enjoy. Make sure she feels loved and respected so she'll feel comfortable opening up and trying new things (if you pressure and criticize her, she won't feel comfortable exploring with you).

And if she's not willing to work on it, or she really does believe that your sex life is fine as it is, then it probably is time for you to walk. From your description, I can really read this two ways... she might be a woman who doesn't like sex, or she might be a woman who's accepted that she's not going to enjoy sex because she's not comfortable enough to really try.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

bb-jay said:


> I am looking for a solution, but I am just at a loss of what to do.
> We seemingly can't explore other means of having an O because she feels she's told me outrightly everything about her sexual anatomy.
> 
> she really doesn't like oral (even though I am a HUGE fan of giving and receiving). If I attempt to go down on her, she'll sometimes pull me up or clamp her thighs shut. Other times, she'd let me, but she has never O, even though i enjoy feasting between her legs.
> ...


Okay, but again (if you got through my long post) - change up the order of things. Finish first then work on her, doing whatever works for her.

I know you said that occasionally she will get you off (hj, for example), then be completely uninterested in continuing afterwards, but that'll sometimes happen even in good sexual relationships.

However, my advice was to ignore the "what works for her and what doesn't" part of this for now, and concentrate on changing the order and dynamic of your sexual interactions with her.

My point was that she is rather limited in regards to what works for her to begin with. As it is now, you are currently also adding a certain degree of pressure to her in order for you to get off.

My wife, for example, who is not at all limited in what works for her sexually, has also occasionally expressed disdain at how long it sometimes takes me to get off after she's already had hers. It's almost like a slap in the face, or an "am I not attractive to you?" kind of thing.

So, as I said, the ideal is for two partners to finish as close as possible to each other, rather than one having to continue on for a period of time after one is done. Not only is the one partner no longer sexually aroused (ie. no longer in the moment) once they're done, it can also become tedious or even perceived as a slight (again, "I'm obviously not attractive enough").

I believe this is what is going through your girlfriends mind at that time. After SHE is done, she then has to wait for you to finish. And it's via something she gets no pleasure from whatsoever.

So change the order. Finish before she does. If she's in the mood to continue and O herself, then great. If not, honestly, that's her decision.

FWIW, my wife is the only woman I've been with who has been capable of multi O's. It does make it easier (and more fun!) as having a partner who is one and done requires a certain degree of timing to make sure sex doesn't become tedious for them after they've finished.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Dude listen to nosizequeen. She posted about an issue and a lot of people said "dump him" like you're getting, but she liked the guy and picked out the advice that might work and made the effort.

Nosizequeen are you guys still dating?


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Dude listen to nosizequeen. She posted about an issue and a lot of people said "dump him" like you're getting, but she liked the guy and picked out the advice that might work and made the effort.
> 
> Nosizequeen are you guys still dating?


Yes we are, and doing great. It took a little while to figure each other out in bed, and it was worth the time!

We both had to set aside our ideas of how we thought sex "should" work and accept what the other wanted and liked. We've found a great common ground because of it.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

NoSizeQueen said:


> TheTruthHurts said:
> 
> 
> > Dude listen to nosizequeen. She posted about an issue and a lot of people said "dump him" like you're getting, but she liked the guy and picked out the advice that might work and made the effort.
> ...


 I'm sure you're that "cute couple" now


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> I'm sure you're that "cute couple" now


Ha, we're the nerdy couple that goes to comic conventions together.

And despite his very small penis (which is what brought me here), he is the ONLY man who's ever consistently brought me to orgasm, because he took the time to figure out what I liked instead of expecting me to get off the way he wanted me to.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

spotthedeaddog said:


> With my recent ex, if I accidental got her over the plateau with oral, that was it. she just wanted to go to sleep (roll over/mumbling, etc).


To be sure, each woman is different. Some women become very sensitive after a clitoral orgasm. Still, because the entire area (including the G-spot... remember, the clitoris and G-spot are connected) is more or less engorged w/ blood at that point, PIV immediately afterward can be pretty intense.

IOW, for a woman that usually doesn't get much out of PIV (after all, many woman either can't or have trouble climaxing via PIV), doing a bit of extra work to ensure that she's "primed and ready", so to speak, could go a long way toward improving things for her in that regard.

That said, I believe the OP has more or less eliminated this as a possibility since I posted that initial comment.


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> IOW, for a woman that usually doesn't get much out of PIV (after all, many woman either can't or have trouble climaxing via PIV), doing a bit of extra work to ensure that she's "primed and ready", so to speak, could go a long way toward improving things for her in that regard.
> 
> *That said, I believe the OP has more or less eliminated this as a possibility since I posted that initial comment.*


I took note of your initial post @GusPolinski, however, she wants nothing sexual the moment either of us O's. If we start anything sexual, irrespective of the activity, technique, route, or direction it goes, everything takes a downward turn to zero for her once either of us O's.
I want to please her sexually (and me too), and I'd be so glad for her to O different ways or for us to O together, that I'd do anything or go extra miles.
It's so bad she won't even cuddle! :frown2:


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

we had a conversation on this issue.

I'll let you guys in on the details as soon as I can


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bb-jay,

When the two of you have PIV, is she very passive and just lays there?


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

we had a conversation yesterday (she's leaving to spend the holidays with her family)

Everything was flowing well and I took advantage to bring up the issue

Here's a summary (my bad...it's actually long)

- she said she enjoys having sex with me, even though she's doing it because because i really want it.
- she said she's OK with once in a month, even if we were married. If I insist, she'd be OK to increase the frequency to maybe once a week.
- she said she's happy that I find her sexually attractive, and my desire for her affirms it
- when I asked how she likes to be pleased in bed, she said she's told me a few times what she really likes that gets her off - lots of foreplay. She said nothing else matters to her and she's OK with one orgasm. She really does not like oral and will rather not do it except I insist.
- she said she has no favorite positions, no fantasies
- she said she has no ideas how to improve our sex life but might go along with any ideas I have.


Now I proceed to tell her how important sex is to us as a couple. I talk about the benefits of fulfilled sexual intimacy for us both as well as desired quantity and quality. I also talk about the dangers of a lack of sexual intimacy (she concurs on most of the points I am making)
I talk about how our sex life needs improvement so it can be fulfilling for us both. I also tell her that I am willing to learn how to genuinely please her and I need her to be actively involved in seeking ways to improve it, rather than leave it to me alone
I tell her some of the things/activities I'd like in bed (she has a "huh?" look at some of them)

Now she sits up...

...then she cuts me with a question

do you enjoy having sex with me? I tell her that we are not there yet and there's a lot we are yet to learn and discover.

she asks "do you love me?" I answer "I love you and I want to be with you" (this is where I didn't want the discussion leading to).

then she asks "will you still love and be with me if we never have sex again?" (I didn't see this one coming!) I begin to answer that I love her and want to be with her, but she cuts me saying "just answer yes or no!"

At this point I smile and say calmly..."I don't have an answer"

Then she says "Fine"...goes to use the bathroom, and when she returns, silent treatment commences.

I asked her what I did or said wrong this morning and she isn't speaking to me. Then she tells me she wants to be alone.

I've gone to work, and she'd have left by the time I return. She didn't give me a goodbye hug or kiss even when I told her I was leaving.

It's a reality check for me....an awakening.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

bb-jay said:


> we had a conversation yesterday (she's leaving to spend the holidays with her family)
> 
> Everything was flowing well and I took advantage to bring up the issue
> 
> ...


Well, from her perspective, she's probably erroneously concluding that you only want her for sex since you didn't have an answer. I wonder what she'd say if you said, "Yes, I'd still love you, but I would not feel loved BY you or find this relationship fulfilling. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship that wasn't fulfilling in every way." 

It doesn't sound like this woman truly understands the need for a fulfilling sex life in a relationship.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

bb-jay said:


> we had a conversation yesterday (she's leaving to spend the holidays with her family)
> 
> Everything was flowing well and I took advantage to bring up the issue
> 
> ...


Ugghhhh ... 

So she says she is fine with having sex once a month but would we willing to do it once a week if that is what you want ... so she has now made it clear it would be a chore for her or a favor she would be doing you. Having a sexual relationship should not be a chore and should definitely not be a favor, so to me that is already a red flag.

Following up with the "Will you still love me if we never have sex again", let's be honest, that is a trap. If you answer it honestly you get the reaction you got from her. If you don't answer it honestly and tell her what she wants to hear, well, it just further reinforces her beliefs that sex is not an integral part of your relationship.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> Ugghhhh ...
> 
> So she says she is fine with having sex once a month but would we willing to do it once a week if that is what you want ... so she has now made it clear it would be a chore for her or a favor she would be doing you. Having a sexual relationship should not be a chore and should definitely not be a favor, so to me that is already a red flag.
> 
> *Following up with the "Will you still love me if we never have sex again", let's be honest, that is a trap. If you answer it honestly you get the reaction you got from her. If you don't answer it honestly and tell her what she wants to hear, well, it just further reinforces her beliefs that sex is not an integral part of your relationship.*


*These are the proverbial "loaded questions" that no woman, with a scintilla of spousal love in her heart, would ever dare ask a faithful and loving husband.

It seems that she wants to be married for social or societal reasons! Too bad, that heartfelt love is not one of them! She's the one who need serious marital counseling ~ not the husband!

But on second thought, the husband probably needs to seek out that same counseling for himself ~ primarily for living with such a heartless, selfish, and uncaring woman! *
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

bb-jay said:


> - she said she enjoys having sex with me, even though she's doing it because because i really want it.
> - she said she's OK with once in a month, even if we were married. If I insist, she'd be OK to increase the frequency to maybe once a week.
> - she said she's happy that I find her sexually attractive, and my desire for her affirms it
> - when I asked how she likes to be pleased in bed, she said she's told me a few times what she really likes that gets her off - lots of foreplay. She said nothing else matters to her and she's OK with one orgasm. She really does not like oral and will rather not do it except I insist.
> ...



I've cut your reply into two pieces that stand out to me.

The first bit echoes my own wife, big time. The second part echoes my ex wife, in terms of attitude and the big old "trap question". So many flashbacks for me...

My wife can take or leave sex. She identifies as asexual, but that's neither here nor there. The thing is, she does enjoy sex, very much, once it gets going. Otherwise it's not on her radar AT ALL. Period.

And we've had the same conversation you had with your wife. Nearly identical answers as well. Sex, to my wife, is a non-issue.

The second part I've cut from your post is a thread of its own. Obviously, not a great response from the woman you love. To me, she is either completely oblivious to what you've said to her, or she's unbelievably selfish. If it's oblivious, then there's a reason she didn't "hear" what you said to her. Perhaps she's so mentally stuck on the subject of sex that she went into this conversation without an open mind. ie. she didn't listen to a word you said, because she had the answers before you asked the questions.

Frankly, it's a moot point now, IMO. You can actually get through to people who have this mindset in a relationship, but it's not always going to be you who has the breakthrough with her. Sometimes these people need to go through several relationships in which the other person brings up the exact same topic/issue before they figure out that it's them, not their partner.

I hate bringing these things back around to me, but my current marriage is a good example of roughly this, I believe.

As I said, my wife just isn't into sex - until she's having sex, that is. Her attitudes are much like your girlfriends, even to this day. The difference is that she "got it", eventually, and now knows that it's important to the marriage, as well as to me. But it was a bit of a battle a few years ago, after the early part of relationship where sex was, for lack of a better term "what you do". Then it became a "all you want it sex" thing. A lot of discussion, and we've reached a point where (most of the time) she doesn't feel like that.

But perhaps your girlfriend, like my wife, truly believes/believed that men only want sex for the sake of sex. I know my wife certainly did, and she likely had good reason for that. Most, if not all, women will be with a guy, or many guys, who really are only in it for the sex. Love 'em and leave 'em. My wife definitely did.

So for people like your girlfriend and my wife to stay with somebody for as long as they have and they still see us wanting/needing sex, it reinforces this idea that they've decided is true, IMO.

For my wife, anyway, it's not understanding that marriage, and marital sex, is not at all the same as casual dating/sex. And that's a shame.

Hell, until recently, it was my wife who made the jokes about sex drying up after marriage. That "joke" has been perpetuated so much that it's ingrained into society, making it especially difficult for us men to be taken seriously when it comes to that subject. It's become so commonplace that it's almost become a fallback for when it actually happens in real life, to the point where people like my wife almost used it as a crutch. "But it happens to everybody, and it's SUPPOSED to happen after marriage!" It's almost become a stereotype, and one that the man (usually the man, anyway) just has to live with.

The last time she cracked that joke, I laid into her (later, in private), and told her to open her eyes to the couples who are around us, our friends. Some of them talk somewhat openly about their sex life (for example, one woman said she couldn't wait for her husband to get back from a week-long trip, and she needed a babysitter for the kids. Another couple goes on a yearly trip to a couples resort. Another woman routinely hosts sex toy parties.) 

These things, when said by our couple friends, go over my wife's head. She is still under the impression that sex is SUPPOSED to slow down exponentially after marriage.

In any case, long reply, sorry. But perhaps your girlfriend has a similar issue in that she was brought up to believe, or experienced for herself, that men only want sex, therefore when they express this to women, it's not at all about love, emotions, desires, and it's just about getting off. I am convinced my wife is/was convinced of this. In large part, probably, because she experienced exactly that one too many times. It's something that does happen, and will happen. All women (and some men) will have sex with somebody who literally only wants sex - no relationship, no future, nothing. Just to get off. For women especially, who usually require SOME sliver of emotional attachment (even as small as "he finds me attractive"). And men, for our part, usually WILL have sex with just about any woman who is willing.

So if you're told from the get-go that boys only want one thing, and the dating years wind up appearing as exactly that, it's no wonder those attitudes carry over into marriage.


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## NotEasy (Apr 19, 2015)

bb-jay said:


> we had a conversation yesterday (she's leaving to spend the holidays with her family)
> 
> Everything was flowing well and I took advantage to bring up the issue
> 
> ...


So the good news is you finally started a conversation about this.
The bad news is the conversation didn't get finished and she is not talking to you and/or away with her family.

So how to continue the conversation?

The smart-alec part of me suggests "would you be OK if I never touched your breasts again?", or "would you be OK if you gave you a gift again" or chocolate or ...(pick something she loves). Because really the relationship shouldn't just be about gifts or chocolate.

Another part of me thinks you just saw the start of a bait and switch. You are lucky to see this early. Isn't communication wonderful ! :surprise:

The detective part of me thinks something happened just after where I put the asterisks above, perhaps she felt inadequate or criticized. In response she got angry and closed the converation. The answer to this is to reassure her and re-open the conversation.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

bb-jay said:


> we had a conversation yesterday (she's leaving to spend the holidays with her family)
> 
> Everything was flowing well and I took advantage to bring up the issue
> 
> ...


It really does sound like you two are totally sexually incompatible on a lot of different levels. Your sexual expectations are not being met. This does not mean that she's a heartless, cruel, or even evil woman. It only means that_ you want something from her that she cannot give you_. That's why she responded to your question asking 'how she liked to be pleased in bed' with "I already told you _a few times_". I think you keep asking because she hasn't given you the response you want to hear. She probably knows that she'll never be able to meet your sexual expectations, now it's time for you to understand it. 

My first real LTR was with a man who was very HD. He had expectations of me that I could not meet. I started hating the sex we had, not because he wasn't attractive or because he was a poor lover (thinking back on it, he was damn good in bed), or even that we weren't getting along (we were two peas in a pod outside of sex) but because I always felt I wasn't meeting his sexual expectations. Suffice it to say, I too could have gone a month without it. I broke off our 20 month relationship following another round of 'we need to improve our sex life'. 

I met my husband a little over a year later and almost 22 years later, I still enjoy and look forward to having sex with him. Why? Because we are sexually compatible and it shows. 

Look, if you want a woman that's going to respond to you in the way you envision, then this IS NOT the woman. There's nothing wrong with you for wanting this, and there's nothing wrong with her response to you. You two are just different. Incompatible. Find someone compatible.


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

During this conversation about what kind of sex you want and how important it is to you, did you clearly reinforce the idea that you love her and want to be with her? Did you mention any of the things about her that make you happy, or express your love for her?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

bb- You are actually very lucky here. This is the whole point of dating and getting to know someone. You are getting to know yourself at the same time, your needs, your dealbreakers. There's nothing wrong with either of you feeling how you do, it just won't mesh together very well and would end up always an issue. 

So many times people don't figure these things out until after marriage, kids, and then you're a lot more stuck. 
Appreciate this as a learning experience for you and move on as peacefully as possible. Don't ever feel bad for making sexual compatibility a deal breaker for you. If more people did there would be a lot less unhappy marriages out there.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Lila said:


> *It really does sound like you two are totally sexually incompatible on a lot of different levels. Your sexual expectations are not being met. This does not mean that she's a heartless, cruel, or even evil woman. It only means that you want something from her that she cannot give you. That's why she responded to your question asking 'how she liked to be pleased in bed' with "I already told you a few times". I think you keep asking because she hasn't given you the response you want to hear. She probably knows that she'll never be able to meet your sexual expectations, now it's time for you to understand it. *
> 
> My first real LTR was with a man who was very HD. He had expectations of me that I could not meet. I started hating the sex we had, not because he wasn't attractive or because he was a poor lover (thinking back on it, he was damn good in bed), or even that we weren't getting along (we were two peas in a pod outside of sex) but because I always felt I wasn't meeting his sexual expectations. Suffice it to say, I too could have gone a month without it. I broke off our 20 month relationship following another round of 'we need to improve our sex life'.
> 
> ...


Bolded is spot on, time to decide if your sexual incompatibility is important enough to you that there is no real future with your GF. If you push it aside and stay in the relationship, odds are you will become increasingly frustrated and resentful, none of which leads to a healthy relationship.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Regardless tell her to read his needs her needs. Make it a requirement to continuing the relationship. It explains men's need for sex as an act of love and bonding in a way women understand


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

BTW This is a FANTASTIC outcome. This is such a profound concept to her that you could not have had a more productive talk in this yet. She needs to think about it and maybe talk to her mom or trusted friend about how incredibly terrible this is, so she can broaden her perspective.

I agree with telling her you will lose the love and bonding emotionally without very frequent sex - it's just the way most men are built - the emotional wall that exists because of our testosterone is broken during and after sex, when we can feel more easily and bond. You don't want to lose that.

Tell her to see a sex therapist is she doesn't believe it. And she risks ending up in loveless marriage, with you or someone else, if she doesn't understand this.


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

Bb-Jay these last few posters here have provided some excellent advice. I think you know what you have to do. It hurts but will only help you in the long run. 

The way you described yourself with the things you want when it comes to sex this GF can't handle it. If you stay with her there will be no BJ's, no cunnilingus, different positions, and a in frequency of sex. This does not match your profile.


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## NotEasy (Apr 19, 2015)

Another idea to continue the conversation is to discuss traditional wedding vows. I realise you're not married yet. But I love the wisdom in them, and I guess most women love them too.
So, they go something like ...
"I, ___, take you, ___, for my lawful wife/husband, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and health, until death do us part."

Most people see "in sickness and health" to mean if I get sick and can't have sex then the marriage continues. So sex in marriage is optional.

But the vow also has "to have and to hold". What does 'have' mean? And what does one do while having and holding? So sex is promised, but worded in a way that can be said in front of children. 
The only other meaning I see is they are talking about slavery. And given each person promises these vows, each is the slave of the other. So if she is your slave then you can insist on sex. This is the meaning my church takes, especially during wedding services, see 1 Corinthians 7:3-5.

In a sense I think the answer to "would you still love me if there was no sex?" is Yes and No.
Yes if it was because of sickness, or at least I hope so.
No if it was because of a one-sided choice to deny me and change the relationship.

Or Yes and No, I would love you, like a sister or a friend. That is still love, but probably not the sort of love she had in mind.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm not sure that this is a situation where HN,HN and marriage vows will help. Why? Because they address obligation, not desire.

They are sexually incompatible. If the desire is not there early in the relationship, it will never be there. Neither of them is in the wrong. They are just different.


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## NotEasy (Apr 19, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I'm not sure that this is a situation where HN,HN and marriage vows will help. Why? Because they address obligation, not desire.


I agree that the core issue is not obligation but desire. I just don't see how to create desire (if I did I would make a million in advertising). So I work on obligation, after all she did say something like "sex is important for a relationship", which sounds more like she sees sex as an obligation rather than a desire she has. 



EleGirl said:


> They are sexually incompatible. If the desire is not there early in the relationship, it will never be there. Neither of them is in the wrong. They are just different.


I have a small hope that she is not in touch with her own body, or her desires, that he can help her discover that. Once she does that and he varies his approach to suit then they might move forward.

Otherwise I agree with your second paragraph too.


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

NotEasy said:


> I have a small hope that she is not in touch with her own body, or her desires, that he can help her discover that. Once she does that and he varies his approach to suit then they might move forward.


I think this is a large part of the problem. And I think OP's frustration is making it worse. Instead of creating an environment where she feels comfortable exploring, he's pressuring her and making her feel like it's all about sex and less about love. So she pulls father away.


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

I feel like I need to elaborate a little...

You asked her to help you and work towards meeting your needs. That was fair. I hope somewhere in there you expressed some love for her, but it don't know because you haven't said.

But her question about never having sex again wasn't just about sex. She was asking (in an immature fashion) if you loved her as she is. She was asking if you would still love her if she tried and she failed. 

And you told her you didn't know. So she is hurt.

I withdraw my earlier advice, OP. Move on. You deserve someone you feel a physical connection with. And she deserves someone who makes her feel loved and accepted. Maybe you're not the only one feeling some incompatibility here.


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## bb-jay (Dec 15, 2015)

Some of you have made some comments that got me light-hearted, some have been a rude awakening for me...but I am learning and appreciate it all - it's the reason I came here.

I had quite a weekend, so forgive me...this is a bit long

I called my gf to check on her and know how her folks are doing, and all through the conversation she's responding in monotones. I end saying "I love you", to which she replies "uh huh". After a 5 second silence, I decide to drop the call.

The next morning I sent her an SMS saying "I miss you and I wish you're here...I still love you hon". To this she replies "you only miss me because you're feeling guilty"

I really don't understand this, so I don't respond further (because I don't want to say anything I might be sorry for later), and I decide to give her some space.

I attended a friend's child's birthday party over the weekend, so that was a good distraction for me. After not calling or texting for over 24 hrs, gf calls on Sunday and she's furious with me, saying I don't care about her because I didn't call, and have shown that I don't love/need her. I reminded her that I called on Friday and the SMS on Saturday morning and her responses. Also told her about my weekend (I'd told her previously about the kid's birthday) and how I decided to give her some space because she was mad at me for whatever reason I didn't know.

Next thing she says is I don't love her because I don't fight for her...saying I always chicken out and shut down whenever we have a misunderstanding, how that because I feel like I am young and have time, I am not prepared for marriage.... Now I am super confused, as I don't know where all this is coming from, so I am quiet (what she refers to as shutting down)

She's ranting some more, then I interrupt her, asking what this is all about. She said she's angry at me because I didn't answer her question as to if I'd still love her or be with her if we never had sex again.

After a little laughter, I say to her "I love you, and sex is not the reason, but I don't know why you're unfairly putting me on the spot" Then I ask her calmly..."will you still be willing to marry me if I don't have a d!ck?". Then she retorts "don't turn the tables on me...just answer my question"

Once again I pause, and then she says she's gearing up her mind because I could tell her to 'take a walk' someday (meaning I could break up the r/ship), so it won't be a surprise to her. I said "really?" she said yes

I now had a full blown confusion and growing anger too (I'm glad body language couldn't give me away since we were on the phone).

I just said can we talk about this later pls, and I dropped the call. By now my head is banging and a flurry of emotions raging in my mind. I could barely sleep with all that was going on in my head (so many permutations & combinations).

I woke up feeling better (joy comes in the morning), but now I am seeing sufficient reasons to end the r/ship.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

@bb-jay

Honestly, you have to answer a tough question, do you honestly believe your GF can change? If she has a low sex drive (sounds like she does) I would guess this is not something that she can just turn around, so at best you may get some pity/duty sex. If you get that it will ultimately lead to her resentment feeling like she has to do something she doesn't want. If she sticks with her routine, you will grow resentful. Interestingly, this was part of the reason of that "What is your sexual break point" thread I had started, as everyone has their own threshold of what they are willing to take.

Based on her reaction, which is defensive, it just sounds like she doesn't understand the importance of a sexlife in your relationship. You guys just don't sound sexually compatible, it is not your fault and it is not hers, I just don't think you two are made for each other.

Maybe it is time to move on and look for that person who can make you happy and meet your needs (and likewise for your GF).


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

Bb-Jay sorry you're going through that. Don't you love it when you're the bad guy for wanting better sex. 

You still haven't answered her though when she asked the sex question. Do you think you guys could be together with no sex? 

That's what this whole argument is about and she keeps dodging. Stick with the program and see if she is willing to work on learning her body and what you like when it comes to sex. Lots of people are referring that book his needs her needs (I think). Have her read that to start

I have to say there is a small amount of hope for it to get better. I'm proof of it because lately my wife and I are starting to get on the same page in the bedroom. The last couple sessions have been very fun. 

Cut to the chase with her and explain what you want. I personally think you should live life and find the one she's out there. 

Your GF sounds like a trap in the making. Talking about marriage then questions you about no sex. I would run man and don't look back.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

bb-jay said:


> Some of you have made some comments that got me light-hearted, some have been a rude awakening for me...but I am learning and appreciate it all - it's the reason I came here.
> 
> I had quite a weekend, so forgive me...this is a bit long
> 
> ...


OMG! too much drama. You have been warned my friend. This is only the beginning.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I think an honest answer would be "of course I would love you if we never had sex again. But I couldn't marry you because sex is a requirement for me in a loving marriage. Would you still love me and stay with me if it meant having sex with me at least 2-3 times a week for the rest of your life? And doing whatever you have to do to ensure that you could do that with joy and love and feeling and intimacy?"

If that's the truth then tell her.


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## Omar174 (Mar 12, 2014)

bb-jay said:


> Some of you have made some comments that got me light-hearted, some have been a rude awakening for me...but I am learning and appreciate it all - it's the reason I came here.
> 
> I had quite a weekend, so forgive me...this is a bit long
> 
> ...


Sounds like an immature drama queen who could very well be a lesbian.


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