# No Longer Sure About My Husband



## LivingPoor (Oct 1, 2013)

First, I apologize for the amount of personal details in this message. I think people who talk about how much they make are garish, but I want people to have some information to give me advice. When I ask therapist about this, she just turns it around on me, "Do you think your marriage is in trouble?" or "Do you want to be married?". I DO NOT KNOW!!!! I'm so unsure, and am hoping a neutral party can give me advice on how I can proceed.

In a nutshell, I think my husband has wasted all of our money. Not stolen it, but just mismanaged it through sheer incompetence. If I take it over or bring in a money manager, I might as well file for divorce. He is so unreasonable when I bring these things up that it ends up in shouting matches with him usually dropping the "You can do it all by yourself then!"

Background: I was married young. Too young. We've been married since college. At the time, I was a screwed up kid and he was a young stockbroker who had his head on. From day one, we just kept a single bank account. It wasn't like I had any money I wanted to keep separate. Besides, I'm a financially challenged young lady, who better to manage my money than my doting husband, who happens to be in the finance industry? If he was a doctor, I'd trust him with my health, right? So why not my money? Over 17 years, however, I've grown into my own. I'm in a very niche field and am considered a national expert. I regularly make between $150,000 and $200,000 annually. Dear husband, meanwhile, can never keep a job. Bounces around to a different $50,000/year job annually in various entry level finance/accounting positions. This has been a gradual shift over the years in inequity in our finances. If I ever suggest that maybe things aren't always fair or equal, I get the threat of "You can do all the expenses yourself, if you think you are so smart!" Well, I don't think I'm so smart. I wouldn't even know what to do with a checkbook if you give me one. Seriously. I moved from a father taking care of me to a husband taking care of me. Some symbol of woman independence I am. So I let it go. I've never been a big spender, never pay for anything with credit cards if I can handle it, and didn't see any indications that my lifestyle was being impacted. Even though I make 3-4 times what my husband did, I had no problem considering it "our money".

Now we move to this summer. I accepted a job in another state, with the full and loving support of my husband. I have moved into a small apartment, and he will be joining me once we sell our home. And this is where the problems started. The home isn't selling. Not unusual in this market. I've said, look, the market is telling us that the house isn't worth what you think it is. Just dump it, and we should be OK. We bought the house 12 years ago for $250,000, so even if we get no equity out of it, at my income, we should be able to buy something new. He is adamant that is not the case. I'm beginning to get suspicious. 

In my new location, I've begun to house hunt. My income is very high, as I mentioned. Yet, I was given a budget by him of no higher than $350,000 home. But I'm making nearly $200,000! Why can't I buy a slightly nicer home in a nicer neighborhood (I won't get into locale here, it's not like $350k will put me in a dump, it's just more of a blue collar area. At my income, I'm not sure why I can't afford a neighborhood that is more upwardly mobile). He keeps telling me that MY debt won't allow this. I keep thinking, what debt?

I pulled a credit report. My credit score: 800. My debt: $850 a month for a luxury car, $350 a month for student loans. There was about $10,000 on a store line of credit for some improvements I did on my home for sale, which I knew about. And then.... nothing. So something really isn't adding up for me at this point. My take home pay should be near $9k a month. Why on earth can I not afford a mortgage payment of $3k or more a month, still allowing plenty of extra money for other things like the gym membership, cable, my therapist, etc? Then it struck me.... he won't sell the house without a certain amount of equity. We have no savings.

I went to the bank for the very first time ever last week, and pulled a copy of my account balance. I had received a very large bonus from work that morning, and it was sitting in the checking account. By my calculations, maybe another $5k above that was also in checking. There must be a savings account somewhere, right? Not in both of our names. So I called my husband and asked about how he's been planning for retirement. A question I've never asked him before. He's setup retirement plans for family members, so I always assumed he did for us. His response: Your 401k has you covered.

I am now officially freaked out. I'm not being left with any debt, but all of the money has gone SOMEWHERE. When I tried to subtly ask him about it, he blames me and my spending. I'm not a girl with expensive tastes. I write this wearing a $35 pair of jeans from sears and nails that haven't had a manicure in 5 years. I do take one luxurious vacation every year, because I feel I need the break. But that only costs around $5-$10 grand. I have a very expensive car (my one treat), but at $850 a month, something is not adding up. YEARS of cash are gone. And his default answer: If you are so concerned, you can handle it all by yourself.

I'm at a point now where I wouldn't know what to look for or what to do next. But any investigation I do will escalate into a separation and divorce. So would "handling it myself". I'm not sure that's the route I want to go now. I just want to know if I am right to be so suspicious. 

Only other thing I should add: While he will never admit it, I think he is very troubled by such inequity in the marriage. That's why I never have really pushed things before. If managing my money is how he feels he does his part, I'm more than happy to do it. I don't think he stole anything. I think he has wasted it on stuff like expensive clothes for him, continually picking up the tab when we go out with friends, etc. But challenging him on this basically takes away what he has left in this marriage and he will leave. Then I'll have to pay him anyway in alimony.

What should I do?


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## CarefulinNY (Sep 30, 2013)

I'm definately no expert but anywhere you go the first thing they will tell you is that you need to have a budget. When you make a high salary it might seem like it is not needed but as you can now clearly see, it is necessary even for millionaires. 

As for the past spending, I would check all old debit card and credit card statements and write down the past few months spending in great detail. How often do you go out to eat? How much do you spend on groceries, entertainment, cable, etc? Look for large sums of cash being withdrawn and find out where the cash is going.

If you are orgqanized, you will be able to present your husband with quantitative proof of where the money goes.

As for the income inequality in your marriage, I am a liberal-forward thinking man. I make more than my wife but I hate to admit that if she made more than me, I would feel emasulated. 

If I were you, I would start by making a family budget. If him mismanaging your money is how he does his part, you are in serious trouble. You're worried about paying allimony but you make 200K a year and have no savings and very little equity. It sounds to me like alimony is the cheaper option.

I am not an expert and would never advocate for strangers getting divorced. You owe it to yourself and your husband to be honest and address this festering issue before the damage is irreversible. 

Good luck.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

If I was you, the first thing I'd do is research a financial counsellor. Your lack of knowledge of household finances and management falls on you, but it's easily fixed. You could do it at your new location without his knowledge, or you could propose it to him as something you do together. Only you know which would work out. Obviously, you'd both be on the same page in an ideal world, but you're not necessarily IN an ideal world. If he flies off the handle and tells you to do it yourself, then the correct response might be something like "If you insist, although I'd prefer we worked on our financial future together". 

In any case, the onus is on you to take ownership of your future. Leaving it to him because you want to avoid an uncomfortable conversation is avoiding the issue, not resolving anything. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thrall (Sep 26, 2013)

Hello,

I'm in the financial industry and have my MBA in International Business as well as my CPA. You've already gotten a lot of good information here from the other posters. Speaking on the issues of money management I think it would do you good to take a class on financial management. I'm thinking you can take one for around $80 or so. It isn't long...about an hour and a half or so that gives you pointers. In the class it usually teaches about making a budget, accounting every dollar, etc. But all of this is moot if the communication with your H is not there.

I would feel emasculated if my wife made more than I do, because I feel that it is my job and duty to take care of my wife and family, but if he is mismanaging funds then he isn't doing what he is supposed to do. Maybe this is the issue. Maybe he's screwed the pooch and now he's too chicken to come to you and confess that he can't do it. Some people just don't know how to handle money and that's okay, but it might be time for you to step up and do it yourself.

I don't know the full amounts being discussed here, but alimony might be an easier option. If he's willing to break up a marriage over this then why keep him around?


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

LivingPoor said:


> ..In my new location, I've begun to house hunt. My income is very high, as I mentioned. Yet, I was given a budget by him of no higher than $350,000 home. But I'm making nearly $200,000! Why can't I buy a slightly nicer home in a nicer neighborhood (I won't get into locale here, it's not like $350k will put me in a dump, it's just more of a blue collar area. At my income, I'm not sure why I can't afford a neighborhood that is more upwardly mobile). He keeps telling me that MY debt won't allow this. I keep thinking, what debt?


Your ignorance (and I only mean lack of factual information) about your own financial situation is breathtaking - and scary.

Let me tell you - 200K doesnt go as far as you think when you start adding things like $850 a month for a car. And just because you make 200k, does not mean that $350K for a house is overly conservative - especially if you have no equity in the house you currently had for 12 years (you dont know?) and have no comprehension of your current financial situation. Depending on taxes and insurance that should be less than $2,500 per month for a 30 year fixed at 5% just to use some worst case numbers.

Sounds like he has given you the ok to handle it yourself. Go ahead. You dont need an excuse, you just need a better understanding of where it is all going. I guarantee both your bank(s) and credit cards have (possibly) years of online statements that you can access for detailed records - as does your retirement accounts, insurance plans, whatever.

You are looking for advice and nobody is going to be able to give you any until you bring yourself up to speed on what your situation is. Should be easy since you are such a sharp cookie, right?

'years of cash are gone'. Maybe you should go find out. Maybe you should talk. I dont know what your lifestyle is like - nor does anyone else here. 

'Just dump it and we should be OK' - frankly - its thinking like this that causes people to wonder were all their money went.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

thrall said:


> ..I would feel emasculated if my wife made more than I do, because I feel that it is my job and duty to take care of my wife and family..


surely that is your problem and not OP's...


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

LivingPoor said:


> ...I wouldn't even know what to do with a checkbook if you give me one. ... never pay for anything with credit cards if I can handle it....


so what.. you walk around with wads of cash? Do you pay in chickens?

I am finding some of his hard to believe.


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## thrall (Sep 26, 2013)

anotherguy said:


> surely that is your problem and not OP's...


I was stating how I felt in support of her trying to figure out why her husband is so defensive...douche.


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## CarefulinNY (Sep 30, 2013)

anotherguy said:


> surely that is your problem and not OP's...


He was addressing an issue that she questioned in the OP.


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## lewmin (Nov 5, 2012)

You and your husband really need to share a discussion on your joint finances...but here is the first order of business...you need to determine your "net worth". This will give you a picture of what you could afford.

So here goes. 

Step 1: Add up all your assets, as follows:

cash (money in bank, CD's treasury bills, money market accounts)
+ investments (mutual funds, stocks, bonds)+
_______________________________________________
Total liquid assets 

Now, add retirement assets:
IRA's and Roth's
Keoughs/SEPPS
401K

Now add: 
Value of Home
Value of Cars
collectibles, etc.

All this is your TOTAL ASSETS

Now we have to figure out what you owe..these are liabilities:

Mortgage Balance
Home Equity Loan/Home Equity Line of Credit Balance
Auto Loan Balance
Student Loan Balance
Credit Card Balance
Any other loans

Add these up...this is your TOTAL LIABILITIES

Now subtract your total liabilities from your total assets, and that equals NET WORTH.

Example
Total assets = $650,000
- Total liabilities $270,000

Net Worth = $380,000


Now if you are 30 years old and you have a net worth of $380,000, not bad. If you are 60 years old and lpan on retiring at 65, not good. So you need to factor in your respective ages.

This will give you a better picture of what you can afford.


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

I don't really understand how you could have had no idea about your financial situation. I can understand this early on in the relationship if he's making all the money and you are young and naive. However, as you pass the younger days and need to get serious about planning for financial health, you should be aware of your progress. Even if the day to day management is his, I would expect you to know the overall situation at the high level. Your ability to blame him for the past is limited. It's both of you who got yourselves into this situation and a vague intuition that you should have had more money based on your salary and a vague perception of your spending is not a fair basis for attack on him.

Part of constructing a budget should be looking at the last year's spending at least. But this should be part of a constructive get well program rather than a blaming exercise.

I hesitate to give either of you credit for wise financial management but his effort to reign in the cost of the house is right on (even if it isn't the result or the intent to get things overall under control). With no savings at all and no equity, you need to reduce your monthly fixed expenses so you can save enough to make up for your savings shortfall. Based on what is implied in your post, it seems like you are about 40 and your husband probably older. You should stop focusing on your salary and start considering your whole financial situation (which is NOT good) when you think about what kind of house you should be living in and what kind of car you are driving. Your problem is you are focus on your 200k salary and you think that you should be living to a higher standard than your overall financial position should allow.


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## death and taxes (Jul 6, 2012)

Money is a proxy for power in a relationship. You yielded significant power to him when you let him take care of everything. Just because he has a degree in finance doesn't make him a personal finance expert. He was happy with the power you yielded all this time and now he is getting pissed that you want to take it back.

You need to educate yourself on all the aspects of personal finance. Google is your friend. You need a budget to see exactly what's coming in and to keep track of what's going out. You need to educate yourself on your retirement plan options. Once you can figure out where you are now, then you can try to figure out why you don't have anything saved up.


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

There are three separate issues here. The first is your communication with your husband. The second is how you manage your money. Third is your assets. Looking at the second may help you with the first, so lets start there. 

What you need is a budget. These are pretty easy to do if you know your way around a spreadsheet program, and not very hard to do if you don't. There are even web sites that will help you do this. 

Your budget has two parts. 1. Income. 2. Expenses. Income is money coming into your marriage, and expenses is money going out of your marriage.

I don't know anything about your financial situation, but if I use your $150,000 number as a starting point (to be conservative) then I can make some guesses to show you what a budget looks like. You can fill in exact numbers, and of course you can also fill in expenses that I have not included but that you have.

As we all know, there's always taxes. Taxes can be a little difficult to figure out because we have money taken out of our paychecks every month and then may get some back at the end of the year. For the purposes of your budget, lets be conservative and not worry about what you get back right now. You can add that in later.

This page shows a tax table. It says that if you earn $150,000 in wages then you can expect to pay 35.2% in taxes, or $52,825. You will have deductions, but lets be conservative and ignore those for now.

One thing that I/we do not know is how much money you're putting into your 401k. Only you know the exact amount, but your husband says it's got you covered so lets assume that you're contributing the max. I don't even know what that is, but I think it might be $15,000.

The next thing that I/we don't know is what you are paying for your medical insurance. Lets just guess at $1,000 month but that is a complete guess and you can plug that number in when you know it.

Things that are expenses on a budget are usually put into parenthesis to indicate that they are money going out, and not money coming in. A spreadsheet will do this for you.

When you subtract expenses from icome, you end up with what we can a 'net' income. Net income is how much money comes in after you take out common expenses like those I listed above.

So your budget starts with

Income : $150,000.
Tax : ($52,825)
401k : ($15,000)
Medical : ($12,000)
Net income : $70,125

Again, this is not complete. You pay state taxes and other things.

Now look at your actual expenses. You want a $3k/mo mortgage. Lets start with that. Next, you take a $10,000 vacation. You say that your car is $850 / month. Along with the car payment, you have insurance. Based on that payment, I'll make a wild guess and say $300 per month if you include insurance on your husband's car. Plus you have gas, which I'll guess at $100 per month. Note that I don't have his car payment in here, but if you're the one paying it then it's your budget item.

Your budget now looks like this

Net income : $70,125
Expenses:
Mortgage : ($36,000)
Vacation : ($10,000)
Car payment : ($10,200)
Insurance : ($3,600)
Student loan : ($4,200)
Total expenses : $64,000

You get the picture. Subtract your total expenses from your net income, and this is money that is not committed, $6,175 per year. We haven't even accounted for food yet, much less clothing or out of pocket expenses but you only have $500 per month of money left. 

In short, if these numbers are anywhere near correct you do not have the money that you think that you have. Your husband is right. You can not afford the house that you think that you can based on your life style.

Now, my numbers may be way wrong because I made conservative guesses. It's your job to get accurate numbers, and then make a spreadsheet like I showed you above. At least then when you talk to your husband, you can tell him exactly what your income and expenses are, and be able to tell him how much uncommitted money that you have.

Good luck!


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

Rather than editing my previous post, let me add that you want to include everything. Utilities (electric, gas, etc), that store charge card payment, how much you spend on coffee, your cell phone bill, cable, internet, and so on. Leave no stone unturned. You can get some of this information by looking at your bank statements and credit card statements. Anything that's on auto-pay or that you write a check for will have the information.

One way to get an accurate view of your spending is by getting a notebook and writing down EVERYTHING that you spend money on in a month. If you eat out, it goes into the book. If you buy coffee, it goes into the book. These are real expenses that you have in your life, and you want to know how much you're really spending - not what you might spend if you stopped buying coffee. Some people think "Well, coffee's only $3." $3 per day over a year's time is $1,000. It's tedious, but you only have to do it for a month to get a good picture.

The more time you put into finding or tracking exact numbers, the more you know about where your money is going and how much house you can afford. Knowledge is power. Learn everything that you can.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

PBear said:


> If he flies off the handle and tells you to do it yourself, then the correct response might be something like "If you insist, although I'd prefer we worked on our financial future together".
> 
> In any case, the onus is on you to take ownership of your future. Leaving it to him because you want to avoid an uncomfortable conversation is avoiding the issue, not resolving anything.
> 
> ...


I agree. 

Time for you to take responsibility in this. If you can, welcome your husband to be on-board with you as you learn. However you need to learn for yourself regardless.

Start out simple. Create a budget and if you don't know how much you're currently spending, keep receipts or note everything you spend for a month. Although you don't think you spend, habits can be deceiving if you're not aware. Look into options for a savings account. This can be a joint account with your husband. Beware of service fees, minimum amounts and interest offered. If you can't sell your home at the moment, could there be an option of leasing to tenants instead - at least until it seems a better time to sell, or list to sell as an investment property with tenants already in. It's time to start taking ownership though. 


To offer a different school of thought around your husband's reaction, just to turn this upside down on its head for a moment, any chance he actually wants you to take more control of your situation? How did your father handle finances for you? If you were happy to consider the money as a shared 'ours' - why do you think things have been unequal or unfair between you and your husband?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

2galsmom said:


> You need to look at this as the Universe helping you. Divorce this man. You have a job, your own place and in spite of the money disappearing, you are in an excellent place to start a new life with your excellent credit. He abused the power you gave him, don't let the rude posters here make you feel badly. You loved and trusted him and you granted him power, you won't make that mistake again.
> 
> Never feel bad for trusting the person you vowed to love and cherish forever. You did not look at it as a business relationship the other posters suggest a smart marriage should be, what is done is done. Focus on the positive aspects of the posts here and the supportive advice, be accountable for your own money and go out on your own. His temper tantrums are a way for him to maintain the power and control he abused, you are unlikely to get anywhere with him as a spouse OR business partner.
> 
> ...


I agree the tantrums aren't cool. As another suggested, communication between them is one issue unto itself.

I think regardless whether they stay married or not, OP needs to learn how to manage finances anyway and I think others are trying to offer help with that. The only way she can truly get a handle on what is happening, is to become fully involved. At this stage, preferably with husband's support and encouragement. We don't know how this looks from his perspective, which is why I give benefit of the doubt - until she is fully aware with all the facts as to what is going on with their situation.


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

2galsmom said:


> You and the posters here assume it disappeared due to your neglect and ignorance, don't be naive again. It may have been squandered or relocated by your spouse, happens ALL THE TIME, ask the divorce attorneys.


Your husband may have spent money, or there may have been nothing to spend. One nice thing about tracking your expenses and creating a budget is that you'll know exactly where the money goes. If you look at the money that's left a the end of the month and discover that it's a few hundred dollars, then you'll know that there's been nothing to save and no squandering.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Just tell him to move out. You obviously don't need him to support you. Tell him if he wants to get back together, it'll have to be under your financial rules.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

From what you're describing, it's not implausible that you actually just don't have as much money to spend as you think, but it's impossible for me to say. Honestly, your irresponsibility about money is just flabbergasting -- it's one thing if he "manages" your finances, but it's your responsibility to make sure you at least know what's going on. You want to close your eyes and then put all the blame on him, but that's reckless of YOU.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

So I guess the question is, what do you do now? I suppose it's possible that your husband is some kind of mastermind embezzler, but that seems unlikely. It's also possible that he's overspent your money, but if that's the case, it's your fault too, because you never paid any attention or said anything. 

I would suggest that you sit down with him and say that you'd like to share some of the responsibility for managing your finances, that he can still be "in charge" if he likes, but that you would like to know more about what's going on. Spend a few months looking in detail at your credit and bank statements. See where the money goes. Maybe you'll discover that your husband is overspending, but then that means you have to take some responsibility to help him rein it in, like you should have been doing all along.


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