# Considering Seperation / Am I Crazy?



## Am_I_Crazy (Sep 27, 2012)

Well, I say considering, I'm looking for an apartment already and my wife knows my intentions, though I think she doubts I will go through with them.

Where do I start? I really don't know. I need advice. 

My wife and I have been having a tough time since we married. We married relatively quickly, and I believe I was in love with her when we did, and she was in love with me.

The last 5 years have been TOUGH! We argue about practically everything, even the simplest of discussions can become an argument. I'm totally fed up and I just want to give in and have been thinking the same more or less since a few months in to our marriage. 

She more or less has me convinced that I am just a horrible person. Though, she has never said that so plainly. She complains and criticizes me when I do things my own way, or on my own initiative. A few examples are anything from how to stack the dishwasher correctly (read: her way) to how to change our 2 year old's nappy. What clothes he should wear? I use my initiative, but she normally ends up swapping out some of the attire I have chosen for something more "suitable". And I literally mean that she has something to say about nearly everything I do.

When it comes to arguments, she is extremely good at getting her own way and putting her ideas across, or gives in with a "you decide it's your life" then is in a mood until I apologise or put things right. Though, it feels like it isn't my life and my life is just waiting to begin somewhere. I feel totally dead inside. If I think she has said or done something that has hurt me in one way or another, she always (and I know you shouldn't use that word really, but in this situation it's very nearly true and "sometimes" doesn't cut it) manages to explain it away or talk herself out of it so that it's me that comes off as the bad guy or that has the problem or can't understand. This happens when I explain problems at work too. I'm the one with the attitude and "I must be hard to work with and oh your poor colleagues". Seriously, I no longer know what is real or not, whether I can trust my instincts or if I need to run them by her, or others, all the time.
She can also remember events, things I've done, things I've said etc. to the letter, even if they happened years ago. It's impossible to argue with her about these things as I rarely remember them. Though, sometimes I have remembered and I've caught her over exaggerating and making things up.

She is quite scarily emotional. A month I made a, rather fair and nicely put, comment about her weight. Now, hold your horses, I never said she was fat! Quite the opposite. I merely remarked that I thought she should put a little bit more weight on, her BMI is 19, perhaps lower now. And that maybe she wouldn't be so sick, or tired, all the time if she ate properly. She often misses out breakfasts and lunches, and eats a big bowl of popcorn in the evening when her soaps are on. She got really upset about it. I just don't understand. Others have remarked to me how thin she is, to the point where one said she looked sickly. I cannot win with this woman! I didn't tell her that, but it was this, and my own observations, that prompted me to say something. We even had an argument because I eat too much. I'm a 211lb+ 2 meter tall male who trains strength and martial arts 5 days a week and works 5 days a week if I can.

On emotions, she always manages to cry at the best moments to add weight to what she's saying, especially when it comes to things I've done and how "terrible" I've been the last years. 

Sex? What's that, I think I've forgotten and I don't enjoy having sex with her when we do anyway. Though, I do have a very high sex drive and could masturbate every day. I need a physical relationship,I just don't want it with her, there is nothing..NOTHING between us. Most days I feel like I'd have sex with the first woman who offered it to me. I'm terrible, I know, for thinking these things  Sex is dull and not exciting for me with her. I have never had sex with anyone else and she was my first, so perhaps that's just the way sex is, though I seriously doubt that. I have no feelings of passion towards her, I love her as a person and that thread is starting to get very thin.

I'm really confused and eel like I'm really going totally crazy living in this relationship and no one, no matter how hard I try, seems to understand me. Though, then again, I don't know if what I'm feeling or experiencing is real anyway because it feels like I'm so often wrong, according to my experiences like I mentioned about with not knowing what is real or not  It feels like I have just lost all lust and enjoyment of life. Though my son brings a smile to my face, I love him so dearly it hurts me the most to think that I would move away from him  and that's the breaker for me. It always comes back to him when I think about it. Also, her family take her side, naturally, though they seem to want to support me during this hard time and talk to me. But, I don't want to talk to them, they are the last people I want to talk to. We live in her country, I moved from mine to be with her and so I am without a close network of family and friends who know me. So, I can't even live at my parents until I get set up again or back on track. I have no one to talk to, except our marriage councillor and, I think, I've finally managed to get someone on my side who sees more than the nice and lovely side of my wife, as she is that with others. I'm at my wits end and have caught myself thinking about suicide on more than one occasion. Though, I don't think I'd ever do it because I reallu believe that there is fun to be had somewhere and a better life. I would just miss my son terribly much..that suicide seems the better alternative I guess. I have started being a little reckless when out driving by myself  

A bit about me. I have been diagnosed with moderate depression a year ago, but I have seen a psychologist and am "healthy" (see above suicide note) again. Though, my wife has used this, and other things, recently and the last years against me. Saying, I think you're depressed again, it's because you where depressed and have been your whole life etc. etc. etc. Strange thing is, I feel relatively fine when she's not around. When she's there I'm anxious, irritable and feel I have to move around her on tiptoes to avoid breaking egg shell if you know what I mean.

I know this all sounds desperate, but I really have no where to turn. What should I do? Am I really going crazy, or am I in really messed up relationship? Help!

Edited to add: I also have no education as such, but have many years experience of working with young children in playschools. At the moment, I have only a part time job, though I get extra temp. work from time to time. If I moved out, it would be to shoddy conditions. I'm also tired of my work, in my mid thirties, and trying to get an education in the health system.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

First stop blaming your wife for your depression & suicide thoughts. If you are clinically depressed, you need treatment asap.

She sounds verbally & emotionally abusive. This will not get better.
She is toxic to you; an energy vampire who sucks the life out of you.

You are co-dependent on her (walking on eggshells). I think you need to get away from her.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

She sounds like a person with borderline personality disorder. 
Google "welcome to oz" and "BPD central" and the book "stop walking on eggshells". 
Take care of your own mental state and yourself as well.
I think you will find that you relate a ton to other spouses or exspouses of people with BPD.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Borderline Personality Disorder:Marriage - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

Hope this helps
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## miss812 (Jun 17, 2012)

She sounds A LOT like my soon to be ex-husband. I also agree 100% with what others have said bout her being BPD and verbally/emotionally abusive.

Curious - how long have you been married?

Is moving back to your home country an option?


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## sqrt314 (Jun 14, 2011)

I'm going through a lot recently too.. I want to ask: 

after seperation, what do you plan to do? How are you going to keep yourself mentally / physically healthy?

You have 24 hours a day. How are you going to keep yourself out of trouble?


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## Am_I_Crazy (Sep 27, 2012)

Emerald said:


> First stop blaming your wife for your depression & suicide thoughts. If you are clinically depressed, you need treatment asap.
> 
> She sounds verbally & emotionally abusive. This will not get better.
> She is toxic to you; an energy vampire who sucks the life out of you.
> ...


I am seeking a new appointment with my psychologist, though for the time being I feel quite fine. I'm telling the truth when I say that being around my wife seems to bring on these depressive episodes.

I've also thought that she has been emotionally abusing me, though I truly believe she has no idea of what she is doing. In the past I've always put it down to that she is a very smart and intellectual person and able to put forth her arguements in a clear, well thought out and concise manner. Whereas I tend to be all over the place with my arguements. I have researched a little on emotionally abusive people and some of the things I've read set my alarm going.

The trouble is, how do you confront someone who is emotionally abusive? They will most probably deny it and it will lead to another bout of emotional abuse. I'm considering bringing this up with my marriage councellor and seeing what he thinks. 



diwali123 said:


> She sounds like a person with borderline personality disorder.
> Google "welcome to oz" and "BPD central" and the book "stop walking on eggshells".
> Take care of your own mental state and yourself as well.
> I think you will find that you relate a ton to other spouses or exspouses of people with BPD.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks for the information, I'll check BPD out. Like I said above, I will be seeking help for my own problems via my GP and hopefully he can refer me to my psychologist again as I can't go directly through him without paying a fortune.



diwali123 said:


> Borderline Personality Disorder:Marriage - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com
> 
> Hope this helps
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you for the link. I'll check it out.



miss812 said:


> She sounds A LOT like my soon to be ex-husband. I also agree 100% with what others have said bout her being BPD and verbally/emotionally abusive.
> 
> Curious - how long have you been married?
> 
> Is moving back to your home country an option?


We've been together for 6 1/2 years total and 5 1/2 years married. I do not consider moving back home an option as I have a 2 1/2 year old son with my wife and I firmly believe my country has very little to offer him in life. I love and believe in the country I currently reside in and see how much it has to offer. My son's needs come first. I also believe that this country is far better for me too in regards to a future and any health care I will need for my own problems.



sqrt314 said:


> I'm going through a lot recently too.. I want to ask:
> 
> after seperation, what do you plan to do? How are you going to keep yourself mentally / physically healthy?
> 
> You have 24 hours a day. How are you going to keep yourself out of trouble?


I'm very physically active and in relatively good shape, so I have no plans to give this lifestyle up. Mentally, I will be hopefully refered to my psychologist that I had during my bout of depression last year. 

I will want to spend as much time with my son as possible and between him, strength training, martial arts and work, I think I'll manage to keep out of too much trouble. 

Thanks everyone for your replies!


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## Am_I_Crazy (Sep 27, 2012)

This is so painful. I'm really torn when it comes to my son. I love him so much, and I often find myself thinking how can I do this to him? I'm tearing his world apart and that hurts me to the core. But, how can I go on like this? To be just this irritable, moody, shadow of a man? 

Also I don't want to give my wife a bad name by telling people I know what she's like. And I doubt they would believe me anyway. Most of the people we know are her friends first. I feel like i've made my own tomb the last years. I mean, she's received flowers and gifts from people this last week and I'm guessing they are sympathy gifts, for her to know that there is someone who cares. But the truth is, if she wasn't the way she was or I was a stronger person, we wouldn't be in this mess. 

I have one friend I talk to and my marriage councillor and that's it. No one has asked how I'm doing in this, or if I need to talk. Only her father, but he's not the right person to talk to and nor are her brothers. She comes from a religious family, so of course divorce is absolutely not an option, but I don't know what I believe any more and I certainly don't think it's right to stay in a relationship that just drags you down and doesn't work. Back a couple of months ago when I first told her how unhappy I was, her brother came and talked to me, but he didn't want to know really what the problem was and ended by saying that there are others who have been in much harder situations than us and they came through and that I would regret it later. Though, I didn't mention about the way his sister actually is with me. He basically belittled my feelings, that's how I feel at least. As a result of that conversation, I have decided to not speak with him, or any of her family about this again. And they are all saying she should leave me!! Because I have said I don't like her as a person any more and that I cannot live this life. Apparently, these are horrible and terrible things to say. Okay, they're not nice, but I have never called her names or said she is a ***** or anything. (She has said that I am an arse on many occasions though).

My wife has said that she will move out with my son, leaving me two months to get a new apartment, as I cannot afford to pay the rent on where we live now by myself. This is a horrible situation and I'm almost completely dealing with it alone.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

AIC, welcome to the TAM forum. Unlike Diwali, I'm not yet convinced you are describing a strong pattern of BPD traits. I nonetheless agree with Diwali -- and applaud her for suggesting it -- that BPD is the VERY FIRST PLACE to start reading. It is important to see if the BPD traits sound very familiar. 

Of course, only a professional can diagnose your W's issues. It therefore is good that you will be seeing a psychologist again soon. Spotting the red flags, however, is not difficult after you've been living with someone for five years. There is nothing subtle about BPD traits such as verbal abuse, temper tantrums, cold withdrawal, blame-shifting, and always being "The Victim."


> When she's there I'm anxious, irritable and feel I have to move around her on tiptoes to avoid breaking egg shell.


_Stop Walking on Eggshells_ is the name of the #1 best-selling BPD book targeted to the abused spouses. I suggest you read it.


> She is quite scarily emotional.


Yes, but is she emotionally unstable? That is, does she often flip in seconds from loving you to devaluing (or even hating) you -- being triggered by some minor thing you say or do? I ask because BPDers (i.e., those having strong BPD traits) are emotionally unstable. In contrast, narcissists (NPDers) and sociopaths are emotionally STABLE even though they can be just as abusive as the BPDers. 


> My wife and I have been having a tough time since we married.


This is typically the case in BPDer marriages. During the courtship phase (typically up to six months), her intense infatuation over you holds her two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) at bay. She has nothing to fear from you because she is absolutely convinced you are the near-perfect man, her savior. Following the marriage ceremony, however, the fears return as the infatuation evaporates.


> We argue about practically everything, even the simplest of discussions can become an argument.


If your W has strong BPD traits, the arguments have little to do with the apparent topic. Rather, they are about satisfying three needs. First, because she has a fragile sense of who she is, she has a desperate need to continually "validate" her false self image of being "The Victim." She therefore has an incentive to start arguments by finding fault with you, blaming you for her every misfortune.

Second, she has such an empty feeling inside that she has a strong need to create drama to fill up that emotional hole. And, third, she has a need to start arguments -- over absolutely nothing -- to push you away whenever she is feeling engulfed and suffocated. Because BPDers have such a weak and fragile self image, they feel like they are losing themselves into their partners' strong personalities during intimacy. 

Hence, to get a sense of being a separate individual and have breathing space, they will push you away by creating arguments. Because that occurs subconsciously, they are convinced they are upset about the issue that is used as an excuse for arguing.


> It's impossible to argue with her about these things as I rarely remember them.


If she is a BPDer, you likely won't be able to remember the topic of the argument a week later, much less five years later. As I said, the point of the argument is to push you away. The argument therefore is usually created out of thin air, often over absolutely nothing at all.


> She can also remember events, things I've done, things I've said etc. to the letter, even if they happened years ago.


If she is a BPDer, she needs so much constant validation of being "The Victim" that she meticulously adds your every infraction (real or imagined) to a list that will be pulled out -- again and again -- in every future argument, no matter how small. With my BPDer exW, for example, the list went back 15 years, the full length of our being together.


> Though, sometimes I have remembered and I've caught her over exaggerating and making things up.


BPDers will lie and exaggerate when cornered so as to avoid the intense shame of conceding an error. Usually, however, the outrageous accusations coming out of a BPDer's mouth are projections, i.e., thought attributed to you. That is, they are thoughts that her subconscious finds so shameful that it projects it onto you. 

Because the projection occurs fully at the subconscious level, she is able to be firmly convinced that the allegation -- no matter how absurd -- is true. Projection, then, not only protects her fragile ego but is also entirely guilt free. In this way, it is far superior to telling lies and exaggerating. This is why BPDers rely so heavily on projection to protect their fragile egos from seeing too much of reality.


> If I think she has said or done something that has hurt me in one way or another, she always ...manages to explain it away or talk herself out of it so that it's me that comes off as the bad guy or that has the problem or can't understand.


BPDers are so persuasive because, as I said above, they sincerely believe the nonsense coming out of their mouths. And, a week later when their feelings change, they can argue the exact opposite just as persuasively and sincerely. Because a BPDer often experiences very intense feelings, and because she never learned how to intellectually challenge those feelings, she is convinced they MUST be true.


> She more or less has me convinced that I am just a horrible person.... She complains and criticizes me when I do things my own way, or on my own initiative.


This behavior is typical of folks having strong traits of BPD, NPD, or AsPD (Antisocial PD). It is so well known that the abused ex-partners have a name for it: gaslighting. It's named after the classic 1944 movie, _Gaslight,_ in which a husband (Charles Boyer) tries to drive his new bride (Ingrid Bergman) crazy. His objective is to get her institutionalized so he can run off with her family jewels. One of his many tricks is to keep turning down the house gas lights a tiny bit each day, all the while claiming to be able to see and read just fine.


> Seriously, I no longer know what is real or not, whether I can trust my instincts or if I need to run them by her, or others, all the time.


Of the several dozen mental disorders listed in the diagnostic manual, BPD is the one that is most notorious for making the abused spouses feel like they may be going crazy. Indeed, therapists see far more of the abused spouses coming in -- to find out if they are losing their minds -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves. This "crazy making" behavior of BPDers is so well known that the BPD websites (targeted to the abused spouses) often have names like "Welcome to Oz."


> Sex? What's that,


With a BPDer, what is typical is a courtship period filled with the most passionate, intense sex of your lifetime, to be followed by the sexual activity going over a cliff right after the marriage ceremony.


> I'm really confused and feel like I'm really going totally crazy living in this relationship.


Like I said, "crazy" is exactly how you should feel if you are living with a woman having strong traits of BPD, NPD, or AvPD. And, by far, the strongest "crazy making" behavior comes from BPDers. It is extremely confusing to live with an emotionally unstable person. (Those folks having strong NPD or AvPD traits are stable.)


> I love her as a person and that thread is starting to get very thin.


If she is a BPDer, she very likely loves you too. The problem, however, is that an untreated BPDer's emotional development is stuck at the level of a four year old. This means a BPDer is incapable of giving you the mature, stable love that is needed to sustain a marriage or close friendship. This is why it is unusual for a BPDer to have any close long-term friends, unless they live a long distance apart.


> I also have no education as such.


Well, you sure fooled me. I taught for many years at both the undergraduate and graduate level -- and I find your writing skill to be very good.


> I'm also tired of my work, in my mid thirties, and trying to get an education in the health system.


If you can, try to get a job where you have the opportunity to help people. You almost certainly are an excessive caregiver -- as I am -- or you would never have hung on in your toxic marriage for five years.


> What should I do? ...I have no one to talk to, except our marriage councillor ...I am seeking a new appointment with my psychologist.


If your W has strong traits of BPD (or NPD), MC will likely be a total waste of money. What is needed is IC. I therefore am glad you are already seeking a referral to a psychologist. To obtain a candid opinion on what you and your son are dealing with, it is important that you see the psych by yourself -- without your W present.

While you're waiting for an appointment, I suggest you read the book mentioned above (_Stop Walking on Eggshells_). I also suggest you read my brief overview of BPD traits in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that description rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to excellent online resources. I'm sure Diwali will be glad to discuss it too. Take care, AIC.


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## Readytogo (Jul 11, 2012)

Hang in there. You have every right want to be happy!

Please believe me, your son will not want to see parents unhappy.
My kids are now 19, 22 & 24.
They struggle with their relationships because we did not provide a healthy family environment for them to learn from. I did the best I could. But now I wish they would of seen me as a stronger parent. I cant take back those years.
Seek the help you can and get stronger every day.


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## Am_I_Crazy (Sep 27, 2012)

Okay, I was going to reply to what you post Uptown. Thank you for your advice and opinion. However, I now have a more pressing concern. 

My wife says that she wants me out the house. I have been trying to find an apartment, but it's pretty darn difficult and I really have been trying. I have found a place now, but it's not available for until another few weeks.

She says that her family, and herself, believe that it is better that I live on the street. This is causing me anxiety and stress, on top of my normal daily amount just from being around her. Her words when I asked her if her family had said that they would come and "remove" me from my own home; "Yes, they will come and remove you." Though, I'd like to see her father and her brother (both of whom are hardly the most threatening people you could imagine) try and remove a 2m tall 211lb (mostly muscle) student of Krav Maga with physical force.

Naturally, I took her threat as a threat of physical force from my home. Even though I was quite shocked to hear her say that they had said that, as they are really lovely people and I could never imagine them saying these things. I told her that if they came and tried to remove me, then we'd see some action. To which she replied that how could I say these things after all they've done for me (I lived with them for a short while in the beginning of our relationship). I explained to her that I took it as a threat of physical violence to which she explained that they would come and talk to me. LMFAO

WTF? So, I'm supposed to just let them kick me out on the street? I then said that it shows how routed in reality she really is if she thinks that is an actual option. And she then told me that many of her friends had said that too, which I really don't believe as most of our friends are religious and are the nicest people you could ever meet. 

So, we rent an apartment and I have paid my half of the rent this month. We both work, though she earns more money than I do as she has an education. My wife said she would pay me back my half of the rent, minus for how many days I lived here during that month, when I move out. So she thinks she has a right to kick me out of the house. We don't live in the US, we're in Scandinavia, so undoubtedly the rules are a little different. Can she legally do this in your opinion?

I'm considering seeking legal aid, if I can get some for free, as I really don't have a lot of money.

Last night, after a lengthy conversation and argument, she informed me that she had recorded the whole thing on her phone without my consent or knowledge of what she was doing, which I think is actually illegal. There was one point in the conversation, I believe it was during the recorded part, when I was preparing my dinner and I waved the frying pan in her general direction (there was no fat in it and I hadn't started frying yet), not as an act of aggression, but just as in an "I give up" movement as one would do with their hand in a situation that feels hopeless. Even though I train Krav Maga,m (which is a totally self defence motivated martial art, which I train for personal defence and the defence of my loved ones if it came to it) and have never actually hit anyone in my entire life in anger, nor have any history of violence or abuse in any shape or form, though I do get a little angry sometimes and raise my voice, I am absolutely not a violent person. She said, and I think she said this because she knew she was recording, "That was a really threatening movement you just made". Seriously, I knew she was petty, but I didn't know she'd stoop that low.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

You need some legal advice. Make an appointment tomorrow. I'm not in Switzerland, but I'd be surprised if she could legally kick you out, do you have a lease? Who's name are all the utilities in?

See a good family lawyer straight away. It sounds like she is trying to set you up.


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## Am_I_Crazy (Sep 27, 2012)

Update:
5 months ago I took the plunge and moved out.Up until December, life has been more relaxed, but financially and emotionally difficult, having only a part time job and struggling with whether I should beg for her to take me back. 
Though, in December I got, myself a new job and now I work a little too much. It is nice to finally have some money to spend w/o having to ask for permission. l actually have money saved for the first time in many years and it's mine  I also see my son on average 4-5 times a week. 
I'm certain now that it was the right thing to do and.....

... I've met someone. I'm actually having feelings for someone for the first time in years and I feel its going really well... BUT .......

I have a lot of issues with trust. I feel generally very safe when I'm with her, but insecure when I'm not. Silly things like if she takes a long time to respond to an SMS or if she replies with one word answers etc. I over analyse way too much. Together with her it's a different story. She's very clear with how she feels about me both physically and emotionally. She has been very hurt in the past. It very much feels like we are the perfect match.
Also I'm having sexual issues.I'm normally very easily aroused and have very good erections,but since things started to heat up, I find myself loosing it fast and struggle to even enjoy it. I focus on her a lot,but when she touches me there, I lose it. My doctor gave me some help in the form of viagra and that helps marvelously but I cannot reach orgasm. It is also very expensive and I cannot afford to pay those prices on a regular basis. l also don't want to be reliant on that and I am in very good physical health. l do not understand and I'm very frustrated. We haven't actually had penetrative sex yet and want to wait a little, and I'm glad for that as I want that to be a good experience.
l don't know what is wrong. In my previous relationship, the sex was horrible with lots of pressure and I believe it maybe something to do with that. l watched a lot of porn and masturbated because I was so frustrated. Though since meeting this new girl I haven't watched a lot and have only masturbated twice, Though I don't get that hard and the climax is nothing to write home about. Normally alter 3 days w/o and orgasm I'm ready to go at the slightest hint of skin or touch.

Can you offer any help or thoughts?


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## 82Baby (Jan 18, 2013)

@Am I Crazy, Have you file for divorce yet?


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## Am_I_Crazy (Sep 27, 2012)

82Baby said:


> @Am I Crazy, Have you file for divorce yet?


No, but I have filed for separation and that cane through in December. I'm not in the US and there are different rules here than there are there. I began thus new relationship after the papers came through.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 82Baby (Jan 18, 2013)

I believe you moved on to quickly that is why your having sexual problems. You should have given yourself time to heal before you jump in another relationship.


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## Am_I_Crazy (Sep 27, 2012)

Possibly when you look at the papers, but I have not been romantically involved with my ex wife for many years and there has been no feelings between us. It was business and that's about it. I do agree, though, about the healing, but that is more because of what she put me through emotionally. I don't see why I should put a new relationship on hold because of the short time frame we have been separated on paper. We haven't been living together for 5 months.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 82Baby (Jan 18, 2013)

No, you shouldn't put any relationship on hold if you are certain that you are strong and confident enough to maintain a healthy relationship. What you with through with you wife was years of abuse and it just doesn't go away in a couple of months.


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