# Is it fair to ask for forgiveness?



## PurpleRoses

I decided that I need to tell my husband about something that happened. I'm not even sure to begin, but one thing I'm really just not sure about. Can I ask him to forgive me? Or do I just tell him and let him express his feelings? 

Part of me feels like asking him will pressure him to saying certain things, but if I don't ask he may think that I don't even want him to forgive me.


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## Dictum Veritas

If you couldn't do it in front of him, you need to come clean as to what you did behind his back.


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## Luckylucky

It depends, do you love your husband? More than yourself? If you really love him, don’t ask for forgiveness. Let him do what he needs to do. I hope it works out.


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## ElwoodPDowd

PurpleRoses said:


> Can I ask him to forgive me?


Don't do it, keep quiet, forget it ever happened.


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## TDSC60

Depends on what happened.


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## Luckylucky

Also important: what has prompted your decision to tell him? Someone or something external? Who else knows?


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## PurpleRoses

Well for context, I don't mean this as an excuse, but since the pandemic I've been working from home and for a number of reasons it has been stressful. A while back I got the ok to go to the office once a week, around the same time a friend of mine started coming in that day too. We started going for coffee and talking, there isn't even anyone else there. Also we talked on the instant message thing. I don't know, I started looking forward to seeing him on the office day. And I've been to his apartment too. 

A few people know, but they would never say anything.


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## Lostinthought61

You realize you are playing with fire, and don’t be so innocent to think for one second that you going to his apartment was cool......the bigger question is why are you doing this? Would you be okay for your husband to do the same? I would guess not so why is it okay for you to do this?


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## Dictum Veritas

ElwoodPDowd said:


> Don't do it, keep quiet, forget it ever happened.


NONONONONO and NO I'd rather live with honest pain than in a false Xanadu. Only fools live to avoid pain. Do you want to make a fool out of your husband? Do you have the right to make him the feckless court jester to your folly?


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## PurpleRoses

I never said I think it's ok. I'm not proud of what I've done. There is nothing that justifies it. I can't sleep and I have really bad anxiety. I would be horrified if it were reversed.


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## DudeInProgress

PurpleRoses said:


> A while back I got the ok to go to the office once a week, around the same time a friend of mine started coming in that day too.* We started going for coffee and talking, there isn't even anyone else there.* Also we talked on the instant message thing. I don't know, I started looking forward to seeing him on the office day.


This is still vague.

You went for coffee together and started building an emotional connection/ romantic feelings.
This is an inappropriate relationship that needs to end immediately, but hardly something that needs to end a marriage. 
IF that’s as far as it went, I’d probably say nothing and learn from the experience to maintain better control/discipline over the situations you put yourself in.

But then there’s this...


PurpleRoses said:


> *And* *I've been to his apartment too.*
> 
> A few people know, but they would never say anything.


this is a way bigger deal. What happened at his apartment and how far did this go?


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## PurpleRoses

DudeInProgress said:


> This is still vague.
> 
> You went for coffee together and started building an emotional connection/ romantic feelings.
> This is an inappropriate relationship that needs to end immediately, but hardly something that needs to end a marriage.
> IF that’s as far as it went, I’d probably say nothing and learn from the experience to maintain better control/discipline over the situations you put yourself in.
> 
> But then there’s this...
> 
> this is a way bigger deal. What happened at his apartment and how far did this go?


It involves the F word.


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## jlg07

So you cheated on him and are feeling guilty, and you want to tell him?
YES tell him. You need to understand that HE has every reason to NOT forgive you. That is entirely up to him, even if you beg him for it. You should give him the ability to decide what he wants to do with his life.

You need to write out the timeline and give it to him. YOU have to do the work to earn reconciliation, NOT him.
Have you started IC to figure out WHY you let this happen?
Oh yeah, he is well within his rights to ask you to quit your job, and he will want you to cut off ALL communication with this "friend".
If HE has a wife, you should be honest and tell her also.


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## DudeInProgress

PurpleRoses said:


> It involves the F word.


So full-blown physical affair and emotional + sexual betrayal.

No, don’t ask him to forgive you, you don’t have the right.
Just tell him what you did, EVERYTHING, and let him make his decisions and do what he needs to do.
But if you do view it as a terrible mistake, and if you do desperately want to try to save your marriage - tell him that, and be prepared to crawl over broken glass, and do whatever he needs, for as long as he needs, IF he gives you that opportunity.


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## HappilyMarried1

So @PurpleRoses it took 4 post to get it out but you actually have had both an emotional and physical affair with a co-worker? As the above poster correctly stated you don't have that right.

A few questions to give better advice: Was the physical only the one time at his apartment? Has the been other physical contact at like the office if its only the two of you there? (ex.kissing, oral, touching, etc) How long have you been married? Any kids? Is this your first extra-martial affair? How long has the affair gone on? Finally, have you stopped the affair or are you still communicating with the AP?



DudeInProgress said:


> Just tell him what you did, EVERYTHING, and let him make his decisions and do what he needs to do.
> But if you do view it as a terrible mistake, and if you do desperately want to try to save your marriage - tell him that, and be prepared to crawl over broken glass, and do whatever he needs, for as long as he needs, IF he gives you that opportunity.


Don't leave anything out be willing to do IC, NC letter, change jobs, full access to your communication, and whatever he needs (timeline, details, etc.) Finally, you said some people know you need to come clean before he hears it from someone else. Best of luck!


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## Dictum Veritas

ElwoodPDowd said:


> Don't do it, keep quiet, forget it ever happened.


This is the worst advise there can be. Only the selfish or the pathologically insane would do this. This is Geoffrey Dharma level of psychopathy.


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## DudeInProgress

Dictum Veritas said:


> This is the worst advise there can be. Only the selfish or the pathologically insane would do this. This is Geoffrey Dharma level of psychopathy.


In fairness, that advice was given early on in the thread, when OP was being vague and it sounded like it might have just been an inappropriate situation that might not have crossed major lines yet.


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## Dictum Veritas

DudeInProgress said:


> In fairness, that advice was given early on in the thread, when OP was being vague and it sounded like it might have just been an inappropriate situation that might not have crossed major lines yet.


Who didn't see where this was heading? There is nothing special about this particular adulteress. Same story, different date. No one was surprised that she slept with the co-worker. I would have been surprised if she didn't.

But point taken.


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## Luckylucky

So you’re getting a bit of anger here, but keep coming back so we can help. 

You’ve done it, it’s done, you’re anxious and not in a good place. You’re looking forward to seeing this person, you’re issues are bigger now. Do you want more with this other person? And also, again, really think about why you want to come clean? Do you want a divorce, do you want to keep seeing the other guy? Not sure if you’ve answered but do you love your husband?


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## ElwoodPDowd

Dictum Veritas said:


> This is the worst advise there can be. Only the selfish or the pathologically insane would do this. This is Geoffrey Dharma level of psychopathy.


Confrontation is wrong, accept what happens as part of life, and move on.
Only tell other people what they want to hear.


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## Dictum Veritas

ElwoodPDowd said:


> Confrontation is wrong, accept what happens as part of life, and move on.
> Only tell other people what they want to hear.


You can BS your way though life or live it. If you choose to BS, everything from that moment forward is built on a pile of detritus that will sink in upon itself with all the smell, disease and hated viscosity that it encapsulates.


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## Dictum Veritas

@PurpleRoses , you have chosen your path with every bit of truth you have to help you decide, at the very least your husband should be granted the kindness to decide upon his own future with every bit of truth revealed to him as well. You do not get to choose and deny him the right to do the same.


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## ElwoodPDowd

Dictum Veritas said:


> You can BS your way though life or live it. If you choose to BS, everything from that moment forward is built on a pile of detritus that will sink in upon itself with all the smell, disease and hated viscosity that it encapsulates.


I always thought BS was a form of boasting to make yourself feel better about your own failings.
Telling people what they want to hear is about not harming others, and not causing others needless anger or emotional upset.

This is my last reply to you, I don't need to read your anger any more.


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## Dictum Veritas

ElwoodPDowd said:


> I always thought BS was a form of boasting to make yourself feel better about your own failings.
> Telling people what they want to hear is about not harming others, and not causing others needless anger or emotional upset.


Denying someone the agency to make their own decisions under the pretense of sparing their feelings is the epitome of disrespect. You are telling her to treat her husband like an infant without agency. You are either doing so out of misplaced empathy or genuine egregious psychopathy. I choose to believe the best in people and would place your advice under misplaced empathy as you wish to spare people pain. He is not an infant and needs to know the true character of his wife.

Even a diamond has flaws, but you would not buy one if you don't know it in it's entirety. Why would you invest your life in someone willing to hide some facets?


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## GusPolinski

PurpleRoses said:


> It involves the F word.


He can’t forgive what he doesn’t know, and you have no right to keep it from him either way, as doing so robs him of the informed consent ETHICALLY required to keep him invested in your relationship.

Confess. It’s the right thing to do.


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## Diana7

Of course you must tell him, then it's his decision as to what to do next. 
Once you have told him just say, 'I hope that one day you will be able to forgive me'. 

Remember though, what many forget is that forgiveness and reconciliation are two different things. 

Stop the deception and lies and tell him. You know it's the right thing to do.


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## frenchpaddy

some times it might be best not to tell , 
think of it like this , if it is hard for you to live with what happened in this other guys house will it make things better for you or for your husband to tell him you cheated 

if you see it as a mistake and know you will not let it happen again I would say 
put it behind you and don't make the mistake worse than it needs be , 
when I was younger I know I would not want to have been told 
now if it happened DEPENDING on how and why I could understand but I am not your husband


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## Tested_by_stress

You're an adulteress ! You have no right to ask for forgiveness. That's his to forgive if he chooses. It's not owed nor should it be. Yes you should tell him. You couldn't give him fidelity but you can and should give him honesty.


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## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> It involves the F word.


If you have any hope for remaining married, be prepared to answer all of these questions ( and more ) from your husband TRUTHFULLY, with no euphemisms, no "F" but the real words, likely more than once:

How many sessions? For often? How many times per session? What positions? Is he bigger? Was he better? Did you go down on him? Did you swallow? Did you let him ejaculate inside of you? Where else did you "F" besides the apartment?

And if you peruse these threads, you know it is a long road back. Be prepared to be called every name you can think of and not be trusted for a long time. As others have said, the work is 100% on you, be prepared to crawl on broken glass. BTW, have yourself and your husband tested for STDs ASAP.

It is a shame that people don't realize before cheating that the bitter taste of the afterward will last for years after the sweetness of the 10 minute deed is over.


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## marko polo

Your affair didn't just happen. You allow it to happen,* you wanted it to happen.*

_Can I ask him to forgive me?_ No but you sure can try. That is what an entitled person would do.

_I just tell him and let him express his feelings. _ This is recommended. Unfortunately I don't think you will like the outcome for either option.

_Part of me feels like asking him will pressure him to saying certain things, but if I don't ask he may think that I don't even want him to forgive me._

Obviously this is not your first set of poor choices in your marriage that your husband is aware of. Will likely be your last. Clearly you realize what you have done is a deal breaker for your husband. Divorce the outcome. 

Would suggest you make divorce as painless as possible for your husband.


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## SunCMars

PurpleRoses said:


> Well for context, I don't mean this as an excuse, but since the pandemic I've been working from home and for a number of reasons it has been stressful. A while back I got the ok to go to the office once a week, around the same time a friend of mine started coming in that day too. We started going for coffee and talking, there isn't even anyone else there. Also we talked on the instant message thing. I don't know, I started looking forward to seeing him on the office day. And I've been to his apartment too.
> 
> A few people know, but they would never say anything.


You went to his apartment....

This is key.
Did you have (any sort) of physical relations?
To include kissing, hugging, touching, etc.?


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## sideways

You're here for a reason. 

You're obviously wanting to tell him because you've mentioned if you should ask him to forgive you.

In my humble opinion, yes, you should tell him as it's going to knaw at you until you confess it to him. That's no way to go through life having this hover over you day and night.

So sit him down and tell him. At that point it's in his hands as far as where it goes and whether or not he chooses to forgive you.


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## GusPolinski

It’s always a kick to see how utterly devoid some people are of any sort of meaningful morality, lemme tell ya.

“iF yOu kNOw YOu’Ll NeVEr dO It AGaIN it’S pRoBAblY BEst NoT to TelL…”

And if she does? At what point does it become incumbent upon just a basic, general sense of decency to confess?


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## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> Well for context, I don't mean this as an excuse, but since the pandemic I've been working from home and for a number of reasons it has been stressful. A while back I got the ok to go to the office once a week, around the same time a friend of mine started coming in that day too. We started going for coffee and talking, there isn't even anyone else there. Also we talked on the instant message thing. I don't know, I started looking forward to seeing him on the office day. And I've been to his apartment too.
> 
> *A few people know, but they would never say anything.*


People where you work? If so, you and your lover are for sure the common topic for discussion around the office between the men and the women. What makes you think it will just stop with the "few people"? When I was working, a lot of lovers in our corporation were discharged because "F"ng someone you worked with was against policy. It was bad for business on many levels. So, if either of you have enemies on the job ( and most do ), they may conveniently make known to management what has been going on.

Do you live in a small town? If so, everyone in the town already know what is going on, you both are an item for discussion at the local watering hole. 

BTW, does your lover have other women he is servicing?

You need to inform your husband before he receives a call from someone else like your lover's wife or GF or FWB, and before he finds he has caught an STD from you. If your lover is married, his wife needs to be informed also but that is for your husband to accomplish so he can compare notes with another betrayed spouse. 

See what a big mess is made because you couldn't confine your attention to the one you promised faithfulness to?


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## PurpleRoses

I am going to tell him. I just don't know how to do it or where to start. I understand that I don't get to control his reaction but I'm still worried about it. I'm just in a really bad place right now, I was sort of hoping that someone had been through this and it worked out in the end. This is just making me more anxious. 

If it were reversed, I wouldn't want to know anything about it, just that he was sorry and still loved me. I don't think I could talk about it like that. I'm ashamed of the entire thing.


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## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> I am going to tell him. I just don't know how to do it or where to start. I understand that I don't get to control his reaction but I'm still worried about it. I'm just in a really bad place right now, I was sort of hoping that someone had been through this and it worked out in the end. This is just making me more anxious.
> 
> If it were reversed, I wouldn't want to know anything about it, just that he was sorry and still loved me. I don't think I could talk about it like that. I'm ashamed of the entire thing.


Are you done with your lover? Or do you want to see him again? Will he accept being out of your life? Are you going to quit your job or request a transfer?


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## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> I am going to tell him. I just don't know how to do it or where to start. I understand that I don't get to control his reaction but I'm still worried about it. I'm just in a really bad place right now, I was sort of hoping that someone had been through this and it worked out in the end. This is just making me more anxious.
> 
> *If it were reversed, I wouldn't want to know anything about it, just that he was sorry and still loved me*. I don't think I could talk about it like that. I'm ashamed of the entire thing.


Men are different in these things than women. For men, their wife being boinked by another man is almost more than they can bear, and they want to know everything, all of the details.


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## gr8ful1

What you did is horrible. Many here will confirm that not telling him and removing his agency is even worse. This WILL affect your marriage significantly even if you never say a word. You need to fully confess and fall upon his mercy. 

You also need to get yourself to where you feel worst for HIM and not yourself. That’s the difference between remorse and regret. True remorse is the only place where he should even be wiling to CONSIDER forgiveness. If you were truly remorseful you would understand you have zero right to forgiveness, and you would feel that you deserve to be kicked to the curb.

You did some horrible things at the deepest levels of betrayal in humanity. Now do the right thing by confessing EVERYTHING. Hold nothing back.


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## PurpleRoses

Nobody at work knows. The office is empty, everyone is working from home. There isn't any gossip there.


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## GusPolinski

PurpleRoses said:


> I am going to tell him. I just don't know how to do it or where to start. I understand that I don't get to control his reaction but I'm still worried about it. I'm just in a really bad place right now, I was sort of hoping that someone had been through this and it worked out in the end. This is just making me more anxious.
> 
> If it were reversed, I wouldn't want to know anything about it, just that he was sorry and still loved me. I don't think I could talk about it like that. I'm ashamed of the entire thing.


Be sure to outline all the things you’re prepared to do in order to ensure that you’ll never do such a thing again, such as going 100% no contact with your “friend”, quitting your job, changing your phone number and social media accounts, email addresses, etc.

What is your “friend’s” relationship status — does he have a spouse/fiancée/girlfriend? (If you mentioned that above I missed it.)


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## MarmiteC

@PurpleRoses a number of people here have asked for more context.

By asking for forgiveness you imply you consider it was a mistake. Was the act itself a mistake, or the fact it happened while you're married?
Do you understand how you allowed this to happen? Were you happy in your marriage previously? 
What is your friend's home circumstances?

Ultimately, do you want to repair your marriage or not? You should tell your husband, but the above will determine the next steps (if your husband decides to allow you to work on this.)


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## RebuildingMe

Are you still banging your boyfriend? If so, you might want to stop that before you tell your husband.


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## Tasorundo

I had a ONS, confessed, and we are still married 10 years later. I will say that the circumstances are different, in that you have actually fostered, grew, and embraced a relationship.

All you can do is be honest with him. Telling him, is essentially asking his forgiveness, and you should ask for it. Does that mean you will get it, no. Does it mean even if he does forgive you that he will remain married to you, no. Forgiveness does not remove consequences, nor is he required to remain with you.

The only chance of salvaging the marriage is with honesty. Every other option is a lie, and will only build up over time until he either finds out, or you cannot take the guilt anymore. The longer it goes, the worse it gets.


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## BigDaddyNY

PurpleRoses said:


> It involves the F word.


So you are a POS WW and cheated on your husband. You even trickle truth'ed us by taking 4 posts to get to the real point.

You need to tell you husband now. Tell him what you did and let him decide if you are worth staying married to. Is your affair partner married too? Tell your husband what you are willing to do to reconcile, which at a minimum, in my mind, is you will have to quit your job and go no contact with your AP. And if your AP is married you need to tell his wife.


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## Lostinthought61

PurpleRoses said:


> I never said I think it's ok. I'm not proud of what I've done. There is nothing that justifies it. I can't sleep and I have really bad anxiety. I would be horrified if it were reversed.


Lets be 100% clear in no way can you lol us set hat the is was an accident you knew very well when you went to his place you were going to cross boundaries and cheat on your husband....and now you feel guilty....just tell your husband and get and a divorce. You clearly are someone who will cheat again.


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## uphillbattle

You need to sit him down and be totally honest with him. Leave nothing out. Go back and see how you danced around things in this thread at first with things trickling out. DON'T DO THAT. Give him the full story and answer any and all questions in the fullest most honest way. It is scary as hell for you but he deserves for you to have to deal with that. Your feelings mean nothing in this situation and they shouldn't.
Yes pretty much everyone on here has been harsh, but what you did is worse than harsh and you need to know that in talking to your husband.

I noticed you haven't actually answered weather or not you are done with your AP. If not then you are not asking for forgiveness you are asking for permission. That is a completely different discussion.


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## uphillbattle

PurpleRoses said:


> I'm just in a really bad place right now, I was sort of hoping that someone had been through this and it worked out in the end.


Yes there are and it starts with doing what I suggested in my last post. You need to realize that everything you have done to this point has been about what YOU feel, what YOU want. It can't be about that any longer if you want any chance of moving foreword.


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## Rus47

uphillbattle said:


> Yes there are and it starts with doing what I suggested in my last post. You need to realize that everything you have done to this point has been about what YOU feel, what YOU want. It can't be about that any longer if you want any chance of moving foreword.


At least from the threads here on TAM, the marriages that survive a physical affair for 5+ years seem to be the minority. Most cheaters being the serial variety, any BS staying with the WS get another bite of the pooh sandwich


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## uphillbattle

Rus47 said:


> At least from the threads here on TAM, the marriages that survive a physical affair for 5+ years seem to be the minority. Most cheaters being the serial variety, any BS staying with the WS get another bite of the pooh sandwich


They are the minority but they do happen. She asked a question and I answered. Right now she needs to know the ball is in his court and this needs to be about his needs and his wants.


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## GoldenR

Why tell him? Just leave him and let him find someone that loves him bc you clearly don't.


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## uphillbattle

GoldenR said:


> Why tell him? Just leave him and let him find someone that loves him bc you clearly don't.


Because HE deserves to know. Its not about her at this point.


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## HappilyMarried1

Ok @PurpleRoses you said this 


PurpleRoses said:


> A few people know, but they would never say anything.


Also, Is it over have you stopped all contact with him
Tell everything no "Trickle Truth's"


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## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> I am going to tell him. I just don't know how to do it or where to start. I understand that I don't get to control his reaction but I'm still worried about it. I'm just in a really bad place right now, I was sort of hoping that someone had been through this and it worked out in the end. This is just making me more anxious.
> 
> *If it were reversed, I wouldn't want to know anything about it, just that he was sorry and still loved me. I don't think I could talk about it like that. I'm ashamed of the entire thing.*


Another thing he will likely ask is whether you did things with/for your lover that you never did with/for your husband. Usually a WW will do anything their lover asks. Anal/oral to completion/anything. The high from the cheating removes all inhibitions. Whether you did or didn't, your husband is going to imagine you did, and play those movies in his head a lot.

You are going to have to talk a *lot* about your secret life with your lover to your husband, like it or not. For a long time.

Be prepared for "if it were reversed", because your husband is going to wonder what is wrong with his technique, and may seek a "revenge" affair to prove to himself that he still has what it takes to attract a woman. You proved to him that at least for you, he is no better than some random guy at your place of employment. And in his mind, he is doing nothing but what you already did.


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## PurpleRoses

Omg, I thought it would go without saying that it isn't still happening. How could I even think about asking my husband to forgive me if I was still seeing him? We still work together, but I stopped going to the office, so I am not seeing him. We don't even really work in the same section, so we don't need to communicate for work. 

I know as well as anyone the mess I've made. Our anniversary is later this month and it should be a celebration of 20 years and I'm completely terrified of the date now. It is absolutely terrible what I've done and I am not proud. We have kids too and I have no idea how this will effect them and I feel unimaginable guilt for that. I can't sleep, I have trouble eating and he knows something is wrong and what's worse is that it's going to be worse for him, I know that, and he didn't even do anything to deserve it. It wasn't my husband, I just felt lonely and isolated.


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## Openminded

Nothing like trickle-truthing.

No, you don’t get to ask. He gets to decide that. It may take years or maybe never.


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## Zedd

If he knows something is up, he'll start digging, and eventually find something. You're better off if you tell him first. It's really your only shot. If you come clean, it's WAY better for you than if he figures it out. At that point, he'll only really truly believe you're confessing to what he's uncovered. So, should you choose to tell him, be prepared to:


be completely honest about everything, no matter how embarrassing.
quit your job
end up getting divorced anyway despite everything that may have happened for the first bulletpoint.

If you can't be completely honest, just assume your relationship is dead already.


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## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> Omg, I thought it would go without saying that it isn't still happening. How could I even think about asking my husband to forgive me if I was still seeing him? We still work together, but I stopped going to the office, so I am not seeing him. We don't even really work in the same section, so we don't need to communicate for work.
> 
> I know as well as anyone the mess I've made. Our anniversary is later this month and it should be a celebration of 20 years and I'm completely terrified of the date now. It is absolutely terrible what I've done and I am not proud. We have kids too and I have no idea how this will effect them and I feel unimaginable guilt for that. I can't sleep, I have trouble eating and he knows something is wrong and what's worse is that it's going to be worse for him, I know that, and he didn't even do anything to deserve it. It wasn't my husband, I just felt lonely and isolated.


20 years. Damn. Just proves even long marriage is no guarantee of anything. And there is no guarantee that your lover wont be reaching out for another bite of the apple. In fact, he may be "F"n several "lonely" and "isolated" married women where you work. He might even be commonly known at your company among the women there. When you next feel "lonely and isolated" you will be vulnerable to yielding again to him or someone else.

Can't unring a bell, so you likely need some counseling to deal with your "guilt", help you sleep and eat. Ruining your health will just add to the troubles you already have. Hubby may need some counseling to deal with grief and insecurity of having been betrayed by someone he trusted the most.

Wish all of you best going forward, whichever way things go it is for best of all to lay all of the cards face up on the table and let the chips fall where they will. All of you will hopefully learn from this sad incident.


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## uphillbattle

PurpleRoses said:


> Omg, I thought it would go without saying that it isn't still happening.


Honestly, it doesn't. Many still continue.



PurpleRoses said:


> * I'm* completely terrified of the date now. *I* am not proud. *I* feel unimaginable guilt for that.* I* can't sleep, *I* have trouble eating. *I* just felt lonely and isolated.


We all know this won't be easy. I took the liberty of making bold the words you need to throw out of your thoughts for the time being. This is no longer about what you want or feel. This currently needs to be about your husband and how he feels. You can be a typical WS or you can from here on out be better than typical.


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## RebuildingMe

If you want any shot at staying in the marriage, come clean and start looking for a new place to work.


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## Al_Bundy

Don't ask for forgiveness and don't ask for a dime if he decides to divorce.


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## rescueengine

This is every man worst nightmare. Did you do anything to the OM that you wouldn't do to your husband?


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## Al_Bundy

HappilyMarried1 said:


> Ok @PurpleRoses you said this
> 
> Also, Is it over have you stopped all contact with him
> Tell everything no "Trickle Truth's"


The AP was probably the one who ended it which is why she stopped going into the office.


----------



## Rus47

rescueengine said:


> This is every man worst nightmare. Did you do anything to the OM that you wouldn't do to your husband?


Whether she did or didnt, her husband will imagine she did, and play the mind movies of her and OM over and over. We all know a WW has no limits on what she will do to/for her lover. Unlike husband, the OM has but to ask.


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## Rus47

Al_Bundy said:


> The AP was probably the one who ended it which is why she stopped going into the office.


You are likely correct. Otherwise she would still be going to "The Apartment".


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## MattMatt

@PurpleRoses Of course you can ask him to forgive you. But it's up to him if he does.

But total honesty is the only way forward.


----------



## sideways

PurpleRoses said:


> I am going to tell him. I just don't know how to do it or where to start. I understand that I don't get to control his reaction but I'm still worried about it. I'm just in a really bad place right now, I was sort of hoping that someone had been through this and it worked out in the end. This is just making me more anxious.
> 
> If it were reversed, I wouldn't want to know anything about it, just that he was sorry and still loved me. I don't think I could talk about it like that. I'm ashamed of the entire thing.


Nobody wants to be the barer of bad news. Especially when it's betraying and devastating the one person you took a vow to love and protect.

How do you confess? You just do it. You obviously weren't afraid to cheat and now it's time to suffer the consequences. What those are, well that's up to your husband. 

The longer you put it off the harder it will be. Be prepared to leave once you tell him so he has space to try to wrap his brain around all of this. Have a bag packed and somewhere to go and who knows for how long.


----------



## uphillbattle

sideways said:


> You obviously weren't afraid to cheat


More often than not this is not true. It's a big part of the thrill for the WS. The difference now is she needs to overcome those fears for a non selfish reason.


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## Tested_by_stress

PurpleRoses said:


> Omg, I thought it would go without saying that it isn't still happening. How could I even think about asking my husband to forgive me if I was still seeing him? We still work together, but I stopped going to the office, so I am not seeing him. We don't even really work in the same section, so we don't need to communicate for work.
> 
> I know as well as anyone the mess I've made. Our anniversary is later this month and it should be a celebration of 20 years and I'm completely terrified of the date now. It is absolutely terrible what I've done and I am not proud. We have kids too and I have no idea how this will effect them and I feel unimaginable guilt for that. I can't sleep, I have trouble eating and he knows something is wrong and what's worse is that it's going to be worse for him, I know that, and he didn't even do anything to deserve it. It wasn't my husband, I just felt lonely and isolated.


There is an old saying......"what happens in the dark eventually comes to light". You stated that others know but would never tell. There is no guarantee of that. You defecated on a 20 year marriage and you owe him the truth. You sound like guilt is having a profound effect on you. Will you be able to bury this and function as normal going forward? The answer is likely "no". If he finds out through another source, the fallout will likely be much worse.


----------



## Trustless Marriage

Not a good situation. The one thing you do have going for you is that you have decided to confess yourself. This is different than him catching you in a lie or seeing a text etc... Be ready to lay everything out on the table to the finest detail - as much as it hurts. If you start with the trickle truth then you might as well file for divorce yourself. He deserves the truth and nothing but the whole truth. Good luck.


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## joannacroc

Come clean because it's the ethical thing and if he finds out on his own you're history anyway. He should be able to choose.
1) If you love him and want to try and save the marriage, answer every question he asks honestly, without sugar coating or minimizing. 
2) Do not try and place blame on him for your actions. If he asks why, you can answer honestly. Why you felt the need to do this. If you don't know you can commit and stick to counseling to try and find out why your boundaries are weak. To me that would be the bigger question. If there are underlying issues then this could happen again if you don't work together to prevent that. That's if he gives you a gift of reconciliation. 
3) If he chooses to forgive you, make all your communications with others above board. Imagine he was next to you and act accordingly. Make your phone and computer passwords available to him and I cannot stress this enough - DELETE NOTHING. 
4) Understand that if he chooses to take time to process this and doesn't know what he wants that is his perogative. You are dumping a flaming pile of turd on him. It's going to take him time to even wrap his head around this. Do not ask for forgiveness. He likely won't be in a place where he is ready to forgive for some time, if ever.
5) Grasp that reconciliation is a gift, and that if upon reflection he chooses to try and stay and work with you on the marriage, a lot of the heavy lifting will be on you, in order to earn back his trust. It will mean he can monitor your texts and email, that you likely won't have the same freedom you had before. He may never trust you in the same way again. Recognize that is a consequence of your actions and do not show resentment of his monitoring your texts or calls or emails if he so chooses. 
6) Cut off contact with your AP and offer to change jobs or move offices if your husband wants so he feels more comfortable.


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## Dictum Veritas

PurpleRoses said:


> Our anniversary is later this month and it should be a celebration of 20 years and I'm completely terrified of the date now.


Don't worry about those 20 years. That marriage no longer exists and you killed it. If your husband chooses to offer you the gift of reconciliation, that counter may start again at 0 in about 3-5 years when and if reconciliation is still on track then. It will take him that long just to find his feet again after the trauma your choices caused regardless of divorce or reconciliation. That counter may start again at 0 once he has re-grounded his destroyed being.


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## PurpleRoses

rescueengine said:


> This is every man worst nightmare. Did you do anything to the OM that you wouldn't do to your husband?


My marriage isn't a series of denials. We were having sex, there weren't any whips, leather or chains involved. 

There are so many assumptions here. I was afraid to do it. I can't help that I did it now, but how can that be compared to confessing something like this? And I did end it ok, I felt horribly guilty and ended it. And you know what? It didn't help, I still feel very an overwhelming sense of guilt and shame. I love my husband and it breaks my heart that I did this to him. I am not a callous hateful person, I'm really not.


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## Zedd

He'll absolutely 100% want to know why you did it. Without information you give him he'll internalize everything he's ever done and where he went wrong. Whatever you don't tell him, he'll make up in his own head. Imagine putting a puzzle together without a picture on the box. That's what his life will be. You know the picture and know the score. He will not.


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## Dictum Veritas

PurpleRoses said:


> I am not a callous hateful person, I'm really not.


While engaging sexually with your AP, with every choice that lead up to it and until you confess in remorse, you were and are a callous hateful person towards your husband and your marriage. There is no way to sugar-coat it, it's simply a fact, intended or not, it's true.


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## Openminded

Rebuilding a marriage, if that’s what your husband chooses to do (and a lot of men would divorce instead), will take years. Even then, there’s no guarantee that it will work. Forgiveness is easier in theory than it is in reality. Time will tell if the two of you survive this.


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## re16

PurpleRoses said:


> I am not a callous hateful person, I'm really not.


Then you need to tell him.

Be sure you don't call this a "mistake" because it wasn't. It was a serious of decisions that led to this happening. Tell the truth and release your guilt. It may come out whether you tell him or not, so you'll be living in prolonged fear of it coming out if you try to hide it.


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## SunCMars

PurpleRoses said:


> er
> I love my husband and it breaks my heart that I did this to him. I am not a callous hateful person, I'm really not.


The fact that you feel tremendous shame and guilt, is good.

If admitting what you have done will make you feel better, than do it.

Remember, after you tell him what you did, you will still feel the guilt and shame.
And, this will be added on top of your likely seperation and divorce.

If he reconciles with you, he will never feel the same about you.
Plus, he may tell his family and yours.

Right now, your conscience is terribly weighing on you.
After confessing, the whole world will come crashing down upon you.

You will have changed your whole life.....for the worse.

Since, you (seem) to want to stay with your husband, till death do you part, admitting this will make parting come a lot quicker.

I won't tell you what to do, but personally I would take this secret to the grave.
Why, because (you) want to stay married to him.

Keeping silent will maintain the status quo.

That said, I would reward your husband by being a warm and generous and loving wife from here on out.
Make it up to him by treating him like gold....till he passes.

Luckily, it is your call, not mine.



_King Brian-_


----------



## uphillbattle

PurpleRoses said:


> *I felt *horribly guilty and ended it. *I still feel* very an overwhelming sense of guilt and shame. *it breaks my heart *that I did this to him. I am not a callous hateful person, I'm really not.


Again I highlighted the things that mean less than nothing rite now. No matter which way you look at it unless he rips your heart out with his bare hands then makes you watch while he stabs it over and over then you will not feel the pain, hurt or humiliation he will feel when he finds out what you did. It's not even close. How you feel means nothing at this point, it needs to be all about him from here into the foreseeable future.

You may not be a callous or hateful person but you did many things that are callous and hateful to the one person who should be able to trust that you wouldn't do that too. That is why many of the people on here are acting the way they do. They have seen it from the other side. I can tell you most of them when they found out, their spouses held back truth or tried to blame shift or made it about themselves and how they feel and it just made it worse.

Sit down with your husband, be absolutely honest with him. Answer all of his questions completely, every time you think it is to difficult to keep going or he is yelling too much or being too mean or you just can't answer that question, kill those thoughts and push on. He has it way worse in this conversation than you.


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## SRCSRC

First of all, before you come clean you MUST quit your job and never ever talk to your AP again. This was simply a stupid, callous, and unbelievably hurtful thing you did to your husband. Twenty years flushed down the toilet. I have read these stories too damn often. It always seems to involve someone at work. I was cheated on by my ex-wife and I know the pain your husband will go through. He will never think of you the same again with good reason. NOW, tell him what you did and allow him the choice of what he wants to do with the rest of his life. You owe it to him to come clean. You need therapy with someone versed in infidelity. Do not go to someone who will rug sweep your behavior or place the blame on your husband. There are therapists out there who do that. They are simply incompetent and harmful. You have a hell of a lot of work to do.


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## uphillbattle

deleted for double post


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## Dictum Veritas

SunCMars said:


> I won't tell you what to do, but personally I would take this secret to the grave.
> Why, because (you) want to stay married to him.


Take this advice only if you are the kind of sociopath who can live with infantilizing the man who loves you by denying him the agency to decide upon his own future. It takes a special kind of evil person to live with this kind of secret and to treat the man who loves you with that level of disrespect.


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## DudeInProgress

Feelings and intentions are completely irrelevant, actions matter above all else.

If you want to try to save your marriage, you need to make it clear with your actions, before he even asks you to. You need to show him how serious you are with your actions.

You need to be willing to risk everything and be all-in - because if he agrees to consider reconciliation, he is risking everything on a woman who is already betrayed him and broken all trust.

When you tell him, you need to show him with your actions how serious you are about saving your marriage by:

Quitting your job - don’t ask if he wants you to, just do it (or have a plan in place and already implemented on finding a new job)
Tell him everything, no half-truths or omitted info, no trickle-truth, don’t make him drag the details out of you
Be prepared to tell everyone important in your lives about what you did - but let him lead what / how he wants to disclose.
Offer to take a polygraph to confirm what you’ve told him if he wants
Arrange individual counseling for yourself to address why you made the choice to defile and destroy your marriage and family.

That’s a starting point. Do all these things whether he agrees to reconciliation or not.


----------



## Sufi22

PurpleRoses said:


> My marriage isn't a series of denials. We were having sex, there weren't any whips, leather or chains involved.
> 
> There are so many assumptions here. I was afraid to do it. I can't help that I did it now, but how can that be compared to confessing something like this? And I did end it ok, I felt horribly guilty and ended it. And you know what? It didn't help, I still feel very an overwhelming sense of guilt and shame. I love my husband and it breaks my heart that I did this to him. I am not a callous hateful person, I'm really not.


Hi PR, I know you want to confess, which is a good thing. But you do have to accept that you need to stop making it all about you - your posts are filled with "I"s - yes you made a series of really bad choices that led you willingly into an affair. You are going to have to make some really hard choices if you have any hope of reconciling with your husband. You've gotten some good advice above. I would stress, you need to be open, honest and vulnerable. 

As a first step, before you confess, take the initiative to write out a full timeline of the affair - how it started, each step you took and what you were feeling/thinking at that point that you used to rationalize each choice you made to take it further. - Some people suggest writing an "R" version as well as and "X" version and letting your husband decide which one he wants to read. 

In addition, you need to find your self an individual therapist immediately. You need to understand and take responsibility for your own decisions. Why did you do this? What was behind the idea that you would meet a co worker decide at each step to end up having sex. Most people don't have sex with co-workers; what was it inside you that made you make the choice to do that?

Whatever you do, please dont blame him or the marriage for your choice to step out of it. Any problems you had were irrelevant to your having sex with another man. 

Ultimately the decision to stay or go needs to be his to make. It's a touchy balance: you need to let him know that you want to stay; that you are willing to do the emotional and physical work to demonstrate your commitment to rebuilding (or even better replacing) the marriage you broke; you need to demonstrate your remorse and show how much you empathize with his pain upon understanding the scope of your betrayal. At the same time you give him the space he needs to manage his feelings. And you may have to be willing to let the marriage go in order to ultimately be able to revive it.

Good luck. I wish you well


----------



## ElOtro

GoldenR said:


> Why tell him? Just leave him and let him find someone that loves him bc you clearly don't.


"Why tell him? " Why not cos of just some basic decency? 

"Just leave him and let him find someone that loves him bc you clearly don't." That would be a decent thing to do, once told.


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## Lostinthought61

PurpleRoses said:


> My marriage isn't a series of denials. We were having sex, there weren't any whips, leather or chains involved.
> 
> There are so many assumptions here. I was afraid to do it. I can't help that I did it now, but how can that be compared to confessing something like this? And I did end it ok, I felt horribly guilty and ended it. And you know what? It didn't help, I still feel very an overwhelming sense of guilt and shame. I love my husband and it breaks my heart that I did this to him. I am not a callous hateful person, I'm really not.



Here’s what I don’t understand you knew you were going to his apartment you knew sex was on the table you could have backed out at any time but you chose to go through with it you really need to understand why you did it...need to go to therapy and explained to the therapist why did you did it because your husband is going to ask that question over and over and over again and he deserves an answer . Your kids are going to want to know why did mommy destroy the family . You need to sit down and write out a timeline and figure out what happened and when, because sooner or later questions are going to be asked and you have to provide that you should also be ready to quit your job and get an STD panel done ASAP.


----------



## Rus47

sideways said:


> Nobody wants to be the barer of bad news. Especially when it's betraying and devastating the one person you took a vow to love and protect.
> 
> How do you confess? You just do it. You obviously weren't afraid to cheat and now it's time to suffer the consequences. What those are, well that's up to your husband.
> 
> The longer you put it off the harder it will be. *Be prepared to leave once you tell him so he has space to try to wrap his brain around all of this. Have a bag packed and somewhere to go and who knows for how long.*


I disagree with this. For sake of the kids and husband, she needs to "stand the heat", not run away somewhere. She needs to hear and answer all of the questions and accusations. There is another very long thread where the WS did exactly this, and it made things worse for the husband. He imagined she had left to be with her lover ( which eventually ended up being the case that first fateful evening ). If the WW leaves, then she should NEVER return, she made her choice.


----------



## Rus47

Dictum Veritas said:


> Take this advice only if you are the kind of sociopath who can live with infantilizing the man who loves you by denying him the agency to decide upon his own future. It takes a special kind of evil person to live with this kind of secret and to treat the man who loves you with that level of disrespect.


Indeed. What if she has already given him a fatal STD, a "gift" from her lover to both she and her husband.


----------



## Rus47

Lostinthought61 said:


> Here’s what I don’t understand you knew you were going to his apartment you knew sex was on the table you could have backed out at any time but you chose to go through with it you really need to understand why you did it...need to go to therapy and explained to the therapist why did you did it because your husband is going to ask that question over and over and over again and he deserves an answer .* Your kids are going to want to know why did mommy destroy the family *. You need to sit down and write out a timeline and figure out what happened and when, because sooner or later questions are going to be asked and you have to provide that you should also be ready to quit your job and get an *STD panel done ASAP.*


She did it because her lustful self wanted to feel all tingly from a man other than her husband of nearly 20 years. He is the boring same old same old. The guy at work was excitement just waiting to be experienced. She did it because she wanted to. Just that simple. Eventually, because they can't stand to admit that it is all on themselves, lot of these waywards will twist it around and blame the one they betrayed. "He made me feel lonely", "He wasn't meeting my emotional (and/or) physical needs", etc.

STD panel ASAP for her and her husband at bare minimum. It is the ethical thing to do, no matter what.


----------



## DallasCowboyFan

Tell him that you need his forgiveness, but don't expect it, not anytime soon if at all. If you get it, it may be a year or more down the road after a number of feelings and emotions are dealt with. Probably some deep couples therapy. You need to let him know and put the ball in his court. Most marriages don't survive this. However, some do. If yours does, it will be because you have the most forgiving of husbands and you need to treat him like the glorious man that he is.


----------



## jsmart

PurpleRoses said:


> My marriage isn't a series of denials. We were having sex, there weren't any whips, leather or chains involved.
> 
> There are so many assumptions here. I was afraid to do it. I can't help that I did it now, but how can that be compared to confessing something like this? And I did end it ok, I felt horribly guilty and ended it. And you know what? It didn't help, I still feel very an overwhelming sense of guilt and shame. I love my husband and it breaks my heart that I did this to him. I am not a callous hateful person, I'm really not.


Can you clarify, did you have sex with OM ONLY one time or was there other hooks up? Prior to that day, were you already making out and holding hands ? Prior to that day, did “other activities” (you know what I mean) happening? 

These are the things your betrayed husband will want to know. He’s going to want to know if you love the OM? If you told him you loved him? Did you use protection? (We know you didn’t). Did you let OM do acts that your husband has wanted to do with you. Swallowing, anal, etc. you don’t need to tell us but your husband will be wanting to know. 

How old are your kids? If you have teen sons, they will not take this well. Many times sons take the betrayal personal and they get disgusted to know their mother had sex with someone else. I’ve read threads of teens sons verbally unloading on their mother so ruthlessly that the betrayed husband has to intervene.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

jsmart said:


> Can you clarify, did you have sex with OM ONLY one time or was there other hooks up? Prior to that day, were you already making out and holding hands ? Prior to that day, did “other activities” (you know what I mean) happening?
> 
> These are the things your betrayed husband will want to know. He’s going to want to know if you love the OM? If you told him you loved him? Did you use protection? (We know you didn’t). Did you let OM do acts that your husband has wanted to do with you. Swallowing, anal, etc. you don’t need to tell us but your husband will be wanting to know.
> 
> How old are your kids? If you have teen sons, they will not take this well. Many times sons take the betrayal personal and they get disgusted to know their mother had sex with someone else. I’ve read threads of teens sons verbally unloading on their mother so ruthlessly that the betrayed husband has to intervene.


Every consequence brought up here is true. You have to remember that they are consequences of your own choices. This is going to be one of the hardest things you will ever have to face, but no matter how hard it is for you, it's going to be 1000x harder on your husband. The only thing worse than this is to hide it from him, because the truth has a way to reveal itself and if he finds this out for himself, not even the gates of Hades itself will protect you from the fallout and the impact on him will also be exponentially worse.

I also trust that you are not a psychopath who would deny your husband the agency to determine his own future by denying him the truth. You got to make these choices that brought you here, he didn't. He needs the truth in order to be empowered to make the hard choices as to his future now too.


----------



## Openminded

You did the worst thing possible in a marriage and it’ll be up to your husband if he can forgive you. Obviously no one is guaranteed a second chance so better to have a backup plan in case he isn’t one who can.


----------



## sideways

Rus47 said:


> I disagree with this. For sake of the kids and husband, she needs to "stand the heat", not run away somewhere. She needs to hear and answer all of the questions and accusations. There is another very long thread where the WS did exactly this, and it made things worse for the husband. He imagined she had left to be with her lover ( which eventually ended up being the case that first fateful evening ). If the WW leaves, then she should NEVER return, she made her choice.


You need to go back and read what I said. I said be "prepared" to leave. It has NOTHING to do with her running away but if her husband asks her to leave for a bit so he can get some space or for whatever reason than she should do this. There's a time and place for hus questions to be answered but also when he wants to do it.


----------



## HappilyMarried1

PurpleRoses said:


> My marriage isn't a series of denials. We were having sex, there weren't any whips, leather or chains involved.
> 
> There are so many assumptions here. I was afraid to do it. I can't help that I did it now, but how can that be compared to confessing something like this? And I did end it ok, I felt horribly guilty and ended it. And you know what? It didn't help, I still feel very an overwhelming sense of guilt and shame. I love my husband and it breaks my heart that I did this to him. I am not a callous hateful person, I'm really not.


Hey @PurpleRoses 
You do seem to be very sorry for what you have done to your husband and marriage. You need to come completely clean, and just be sincere as you have been in your last few post. Be honest answer all of his questions the first time do not hold back to try and keep from hurting him. If he finds out later its going to hurt even worse.

One last thing that I don't remember you ever answering is did this relationship get physical only once or multiple times? Most guys can handle or understand it a single time but really have trouble with multiple times. Also, did he ever suggust or ask if there was ever someone else? Most men really hate if they suspected something and was lied to or may to feel bad for even asking.


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## GoldenR

You say you're not a hateful person.

You knew this would destroy your H.

YOU. KNEW.

And still you did it. You purposely did something that will shatter your H's world and cause him more pain than he has ever experienced.

Sounds pretty hateful to me.


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## blackclover3

you still need to answer how many times? where it happened? have you done things you wouldnt do with your husband?
all these questions will be asked, and why you did it?

by they way
you are moving in the right direction and doing every step a remorseful person would do. and I think your husband will appreciate the honesty and not having to find the info on his own.


----------



## VladDracul

PR, before you start confessing, you need to do an autopsy on your marriage. You can say everything is alright, good, wonderful, filled with love and sex et cetera, but you willingly and knowingly gave it up for this guy. Ain't like you tripped over a log. You went into this thing with eyes wide open, most likely doing your share to get to this cats apartment. (I kinda suspect you and him were warming up some office furniture before you tried out his bed. 
When/if you tell your old man, be prepared for anything, but certainly presenting the details including details about the sex. Out of curiosity, you mentioned this cat was a friend. Was he trying to get in your pants before? Was the fact that you two went into the office at the same time a coincidence? My guess is you, he, or both planned the logistics. I dont personally give a rats azz if you answers these question for me or the folks on this site. But you better damn well be prepared to answer them for him. That little roll(s) in the hay you and your office buddy had may be a life altering experience for both of you. My general advise is to keep your mouth and deal with the guilt that you sacrificed your integrity for another **** alone.


----------



## PurpleRoses

HappilyMarried1 said:


> Hey @PurpleRoses
> You do seem to be very sorry for what you have done to your husband and marriage. You need to come completely clean, and just be sincere as you have been in your last few post. Be honest answer all of his questions the first time do not hold back to try and keep from hurting him. If he finds out later its going to hurt even worse.
> 
> One last thing that I don't remember you ever answering is did this relationship get physical only once or multiple times? Most guys can handle or understand it a single time but really have trouble with multiple times. Also, did he ever suggust or ask if there was ever someone else? Most men really hate if they suspected something and was lied to or may to feel bad for even asking.


I don't know what to say, it was more than once. He's never suspected anything. He just thinks I've been feeling a bit depressed. I've been tested for STIs and I don't have any. 

I understand that many here have been deeply hurt in the past and I am sorry that it happened to you. I can't measure up to a standard that says if you felt remorse then you wouldn't have done it in the first place. I never said that my husband made me feel lonely, I just said that I was feeling lonely. That is the truth. I get the impression that the only timeline acceptable here is one where the only reason was my burning desire to engage in depraved sex acts with the intent of detroying my husband. Well there isn't a single timeline where that would be the truth. That isn't how it happened. I didn't have a plan, not even a disorganized one. I liked his company, I developed feelings and I didn't think they would go anywhere. Even the afternoon that I went to his place, I didn't think. This isn't blame shifting, it is all my fault. My husband is going through the same difficult time as everyone else, I have no special claim to that. This has me quite emotional as I have been reading your responses all day and I have seen the hurt so plain in all your words. I have to accept that I did this to my husband.


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## VladDracul

PurpleRoses said:


> Nobody at work knows. The office is empty, everyone is working from home. There isn't any gossip there.


Let me tell you a little story, and its the same story I've heard many time. Men like to brag about the puzzy they get. Especially the married puzzy. Many years ago I had a chick working for me who was going through a rough road with her alky husband. She decided she'd seek solace from an old boy, a known cockhound who worked for a company client. Did take super long before he got her in the sack. At any rate, at lunch one day, he told me, a partner in the firm, and three guys, two from his office, how he was banging my frigging employee.
I'd bet you 2 to 1, this cat has bragged to someone. You, like most, have no clue how to get you a little on the side without getting caught and withering in guilt (only after you've done the deed they had already done in their mind.)



PurpleRoses said:


> I developed feelings and I didn't think they would go anywhere. Even the afternoon that I went to his place, I didn't think.


How gullible do you think we are? Of course you knew it was going somewhere as the desire to see him increased. Don't give us any crap about, "I didn't know we'd end up f-ing if I went to his apartment", and certainly don't try to play your husband for that sort of a schmuck. But just in case your really that naive, here a clue. If thinking about going to his apartment caused you to wet your pants, you know what youre going to be doing.

Again, don't say a word to your husband before you get your ducks in a row and develop a better front than you have now.


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## Dictum Veritas

PurpleRoses said:


> Even the afternoon that I went to his place, I didn't think.


The brain does not cease functioning. You could have stopped at any time. You made every decision, even the small one's to loosen a button to give lover-boy access. You would love to blame what you did on some kind of Auto-pilot, but that am unadulterated lie. You need to own that this happened because you wanted it to happen and made the choices to lead it to happen. There is very little tolerance for false minimization here and there will be even less with your husband.


----------



## uphillbattle

PurpleRoses said:


> I get the impression that the only timeline acceptable here is one where the only reason was my burning desire to engage in depraved sex acts with the intent of detroying my husband.


Completely off base. There is NO acceptable timeline. Stop worrying about the motivations assigned to you by complete strangers. That is not your concern right now and if it is then you are everything they accuse you of being.


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## Tested_by_stress

Where was this guilt after the first time? That's one important question coming your way.


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## HappilyMarried1

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't know what to say, it was more than once. He's never suspected anything. He just thinks I've been feeling a bit depressed. I've been tested for STIs and I don't have any.
> 
> I understand that many here have been deeply hurt in the past and I am sorry that it happened to you. I can't measure up to a standard that says if you felt remorse then you wouldn't have done it in the first place. I never said that my husband made me feel lonely, I just said that I was feeling lonely. That is the truth. I get the impression that the only timeline acceptable here is one where the only reason was my burning desire to engage in depraved sex acts with the intent of detroying my husband. Well there isn't a single timeline where that would be the truth. That isn't how it happened. I didn't have a plan, not even a disorganized one. I liked his company, I developed feelings and I didn't think they would go anywhere. Even the afternoon that I went to his place, I didn't think. This isn't blame shifting, it is all my fault. My husband is going through the same difficult time as everyone else, I have no special claim to that. This has me quite emotional as I have been reading your responses all day and I have seen the hurt so plain in all your words. I have to accept that I did this to my husband.


Thank you for your reply @PurpleRoses I don't think anyone on here wants to make you feel bad or worse than you obviously do just to get you to admit all of the details of your affair. It is (in my case anyway) to find out certain information to be able to give you the best advice possible. Here is something you need to consider. If you have trouble ore can't talk to complete strangers about your affair, how are you going to be able to talk to your husband and answer all of his questions.

Finally, I don't how it has been since you have ended the affair, but you need to go one and tell him about the affair. He will probably ask when it ended then will want to know why you have waited to tell him. Just be honest and sincere and let him know it was 100% your fault and are so sorry. You don't have to tell everything when you confess. What people are trying to tell you is to be prepared to answer whatever he ask. Some me want to know all the details while others would rather not. I hope this helps. If you want to save your marriage you need to be coming forward with this and get it out in the open. One last suggestion I would have your kid(s) out of the house when you confess. Best of luck!


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## uphillbattle

HappilyMarried1 said:


> I don't think anyone on here wants to make you feel bad or worse than you obviously do


Come on, do you honestly believe this?


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## HappilyMarried1

uphillbattle said:


> Come on, do you honestly believe this?


Positive thinking. lol 
I would hope so. That's what I am trying to do anyway.


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## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> *I don't know what to say, it was more than once. *He's never suspected anything. He just thinks I've been feeling a bit depressed. I've been tested for STIs and I don't have any.
> 
> I understand that many here have been deeply hurt in the past and I am sorry that it happened to you. I can't measure up to a standard that says if you felt remorse then you wouldn't have done it in the first place. I never said that my husband made me feel lonely, I just said that I was feeling lonely. That is the truth. I get the impression that the only timeline acceptable here is one where the only reason was my burning desire to engage in depraved sex acts with the intent of detroying my husband. Well there isn't a single timeline where that would be the truth. That isn't how it happened. I didn't have a plan, not even a disorganized one.* I liked his company, I developed feelings and I didn't think they would go anywhere. Even the afternoon that I went to his place, I didn't think*. This isn't blame shifting, it is all my fault. My husband is going through the same difficult time as everyone else, I have no special claim to that. This has me quite emotional as I have been reading your responses all day and I have seen the hurt so plain in all your words. I have to accept that I did this to my husband.


So more than once. Maybe five, ten, twenty? How much affection was your husband receiving while you were doing your lover? Your husband will want to know the details ( what, when, where, how long. how many times did you cum, how many times did he cum, on and on. The things he doesn't think to ask initially he will think of later. And he will keep going back to see if your story changes. As someone else suggested, write down a timeline with details. You need to have your answers ready for his questions and they had better hold up to cross examination.

What feelings do you still have for your lover? What feelings does he have for you (if any)? When did the affair "stop", and who did the stopping? You or him? Is he married? Does he have children? Does your husband or any of his/your friends know him. Like one other poster, I would be *astounded* if your affair isn't all over social media, or at least subject of discussion beyond the people who know ( and who you think would tell no one).

What difficult time is your husband going through ( just like everyone else )?


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## Rus47

HappilyMarried1 said:


> Thank you for your reply @PurpleRoses I don't think anyone on here wants to make you feel bad or worse than you obviously do just to get you to admit all of the details of your affair. It is (in my case anyway) to find out certain information to be able to give you the best advice possible. Here is something you need to consider. I*f you have trouble ore can't talk to complete strangers about your affair, how are you going to be able to talk to your husband and answer all of his questions.*
> 
> Finally, I don't how it has been since you have ended the affair, but you need to go one and tell him about the affair. He will probably ask when it ended then will want to know why you have waited to tell him. Just be honest and sincere and let him know it was 100% your fault and are so sorry. You don't have to tell everything when you confess. What people are trying to tell you is to be prepared to answer whatever he ask. Some me want to know all the details while others would rather not. I hope this helps. If you want to save your marriage you need to be coming forward with this and get it out in the open. One last suggestion I would have your kid(s) out of the house when you confess. Best of luck!


The questions she is being asked do not need to be answered to internet strangers. But, she needs to be ready to field them from her husband honestly. He isn't going to accept euphemisms and dainty words. Hopefully she can just lay the whole sordid mess wide open for his consideration. Yes answer without hesitation ALL of husbands questions with as much detail as he demands.


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## Openminded

Most husbands want to know every single detail so prepare for that.


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## Diana7

Rus47 said:


> Men are different in these things than women. For men, their wife being boinked by another man is almost more than they can bear, and they want to know everything, all of the details.


Women as well. I would want to know what happened, all of it. I hate being lied to and deceived. I like honesty and openness. 

OP just tell him. There should be no secrets in marriage.


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## Diana7

GoldenR said:


> Why tell him? Just leave him and let him find someone that loves him bc you clearly don't.


Then he would be left with no idea what he had done wrong. Far better to tell him.


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## Dictum Veritas

PurpleRoses said:


> He's never suspected anything. He just thinks I've been feeling a bit depressed.


Don't be so sure. Husbands have a way to read their wives and it causes gut feelings. Don't be surprised is he has already found out quite a bit. My ex-wife thought I knew nothing. She just did something slightly different in bed that had my alarm bells ringing. I investigated and soon had the proof I needed. The first she knew that I found out is when I confronted her, divorce papers in hand. It's been 22 years since and I may not set her alight, but I won't waste the urine to pee on her if I happened to find her ablaze in the middle of the road.


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## MattMatt

Openminded said:


> Most husbands want to know every single detail so prepare for that.


Maybe it's just me, but I wanted *no* details at all. Just knowing I'd been cheated on was enough of a gutpuch.


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## Kaliber

@PurpleRoses There are two camps when it comes to stopping an affair and being remorseful and drowned in guilt and shame:

1- Take it to the grave, and never do something like this ever again, and be a damn good wife (go over and beyond), however, this is a two edge sword, because if he finds out (had a gut feeling and starts investigating) it will be a disaster, that is, if he finds out!

2- Confess to you husband every thing, and prepare a time line of your affair from A to Z, also prepare to leave your job, and ask your husband for forgiveness and hope that he will offer you a second chance, there is a possibility you will lose your 20 years of marriage, but that's the risk you took when you broke your vows, and allowed another man to enjoy your body for free, your husband paid the full price (20 years of his life, financially and emotionally) for something that another man got for free and easy!

@PurpleRoses, think carefully and rationally before you chose your path!




MattMatt said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I wanted *no* details at all. Just knowing I'd been cheated on was enough of a gutpuch.


@MattMatt, I'm in this camp as well, known been cheated is enough, seen to many BS asking for sex details and it caused them mental damage and they never recovered!


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## Robert22205

Who is the OM?
Is the OM married??? Or does he have a girlfriend? 
Is he a supervisor?


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## Dictum Veritas

MattMatt said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I wanted *no* details at all. Just knowing I'd been cheated on was enough of a gutpuch.


I needed everything and the kitchen sink, every nuance and detail. Different strokes for different folks I guess.


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## BigDaddyNY

MattMatt said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I wanted *no* details at all. Just knowing I'd been cheated on was enough of a gutpuch.


I thought you knew in advance that she was going to cheat, no? Which would be major mind **** BTW. Don't know how you could deal with that.


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## Openminded

MattMatt said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I wanted *no* details at all. Just knowing I'd been cheated on was enough of a gutpuch.


I think knowing is enough too.


----------



## Rus47

Kaliber said:


> @PurpleRoses There are two camps:
> 1- Take it to the grave, and never do something like this ever again, and be a good wife (go over and beyond), however, this is a two edge sword, because if he finds out (had a gut feeling and starts investigating) it will be a disaster, that is, if he finds out!
> 
> 2- Confess to you husband every thing, and prepare a time line of your affair from A to Z, also prepare to leave your job, and ask you husband for forgiveness and hope he will offer you a second chance, there is a possibility you will lose your 20 year marriage, but that's the risk you took when you broke you vows, and allowed another man to enjoy your body!


Indeed, But choice 1 means living a lie for rest of her life or until she feels lonely again or the guy at work gets horny enough to give her a call. And there are those few who know ( but would never tell anyone lol). It also means that she has decided to put her comfort above her husband's right to agency in his own live. That is she has decided to be despicable.

Choice 2, she owns and accepts consequences of what she has done and takes the honorable and moral road. Allowing the man who gave her two decades of his life to have agency over what is left of it.


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## BigDaddyNY

Dictum Veritas said:


> I needed everything and the kitchen sink, every nuance and detail. Different strokes for different folks I guess.


I hope and believe I will never experience this, but I think I would want to know absolutely every gory detail. If not, I would be filling in the blanks with my imagination, and that would be quite scary. But then again, the marriage would be over, so would it really matter?


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## Rus47

BigDaddyNY said:


> I hope and believe I will never experience this, but I think I would want to know absolutely every gory detail. If not, I would *be filling in the blanks with my imagination,* and that would be quite scary. But then again, the marriage would be over, so would it really matter?


Yep, what is not known gets imagined. And yep, would it matter anyway. In OP case she is looking to try to salvage the marriage, and for that to have even a tiny possibility, the husband has to know all of what he is reconciling with and just how depraved his sweet darling WS is.


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## Harold Demure

Based on reading so many posts on TAM, we may be able to summarise what may take hundreds of posts and cut to the chase here. Offering help, not sugar coated, hopefully realistic and looking at a way forward instead of battering you.

These are things that I would suggest you do before exposure to show your remorse and commitment:

1) Quit my job immediately. It doesn’t matter if your contact at work is minimal, you still work together in your husband’s eyes:
2) Expose the affair to HR so that your affair partner suffers consequences:
3) Expose the affair to the affair partner’s wife or partner if there is one:
4) Tell your husband you will expose your affair to anyone else he sees fit but do not do this until you ask as he may not want to be embarrassed:
5) Offer divorce on extremely favourable terms to him with the potential to reconcile after. Your marriage is already dead, the person you were is already dead:
6) Have all the No Contact letters/e-mails etc written and sent before you confess:
7) Prepare a complete and honest time line for him, ready for if he asks for it:
8) Only after all of the above, give him passwords etc. Personally, I would suggest you delete all social media.

Things I would not do:

1) Say it was a mistake. It wasn’t, it was a conscious act and in his eyes you are a tramp:
2) Say you don’t know why you did it. Very insulting and guaranteed to wind your husband up. Be honest, you wanted it and you didn’t even thin’ of him when you were doing it:
3) Offer a hall pass, Christ, that is so insulting:
4) Show any hesitation in resigning or in breaking all contact because any hesitation shows remorse is not 100%:
5) React to any triggers. You need to be patient, reassuring, supportive and attentive:
6) Spout all this “I’m so sorry, I show how you can trust me, I’ll never do it again” effluent. Your husband does not believe you and doesn’t want to hear it. Show your commitment by doing 1-7 above as actions speak louder than words:
7) Be surprised if other men hit on you or other women shun you. Your actions show that, in men’s heads, that “you may be up for it”. Price you have to pay …. You no longer have a reputation, other than being a tramp:
8) NEVER, EVER CONTACT THIS MAN AGAIN OR RESPOND TO ANY ATTEMPT TO REACH OUT. Do that and you are toast!

Only after you have done all of the above, ask your husband what else you can do.


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## Luckylucky

The sooner you tell him, the sooner you can deal with your situation. I am sorry for you both that this has happened. Are you scared he will want to divorce? If you’ve ended it, and you’re feeling sorry for your husband and kids (you don’t sound defensive or angry at the posters, so this is a good sign). You’re not blaming your husband, attacking the people who have responded to you honestly, so I think you have what it takes to put your husband’s needs above your own moving forward. If you can speak with him the way you’ve spoken with us, I see a good outcome eventually. 

You’re right that it was good to read the responses of some of the people here who have been affected by infidelity, particularly the men. You’re seeing it from you’re husband’s point of view, so you know how he might react. You seem like a rational person and above all you’re thinking of him and his pain. That’s got to be a good thing. I wish you the best moving forward.


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## Gabriel

Good luck with your confession. Be prepared to be asked to leave the home. Be prepared for a lot of anger, yelling, crying. 

Your H will not be able to make a decision on forgiveness right away. He has to fully process this - and deal with his grief, which will be substantial. 

His whole world is about to be blown up - and rational thought will not be possible for weeks. Thus, also be prepared for no forgiveness for some time, if you are lucky to get it at all.


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## Fly With Me

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't know what to say, it was more than once. He's never suspected anything. He just thinks I've been feeling a bit depressed. I've been tested for STIs and I don't have any.
> 
> I understand that many here have been deeply hurt in the past and I am sorry that it happened to you. I can't measure up to a standard that says if you felt remorse then you wouldn't have done it in the first place. I never said that my husband made me feel lonely, I just said that I was feeling lonely. That is the truth. I get the impression that the only timeline acceptable here is one where the only reason was my burning desire to engage in depraved sex acts with the intent of detroying my husband. Well there isn't a single timeline where that would be the truth. That isn't how it happened. I didn't have a plan, not even a disorganized one. I liked his company, I developed feelings and I didn't think they would go anywhere. Even the afternoon that I went to his place, I didn't think. This isn't blame shifting, it is all my fault. My husband is going through the same difficult time as everyone else, I have no special claim to that. This has me quite emotional as I have been reading your responses all day and I have seen the hurt so plain in all your words. I have to accept that I did this to my husband.


Hey Purple Roses

What you are doing on this thread is incredibly healthy and if you can stick it out it will massively help when you confess to your husband. I think you are a good person who has done an incredibly awful thing. You need to separate out your identity and who you are from your actions. You need to give yourself incredible kindness and compassion for who you are and what led you to this. And you need to be tough as nails with yourself for your actions and what you did. You will get much more of the latter here as you've already discovered but it will help you in the long run. Tough love.

Beating yourself up and feeling bad about yourself and endlessly condemning yourself will get you nowhere. Conviction of how wrong your actions were, steadfast and committed action in the right direction for MONTHS and likely YEARS regardless of the consequences for you will get you everywhere. 

You need to come to terms with what you have done AND that no matter what you will be ok. You can choose for this to be a line in the sand where regardless of what happens with your marriage you become the best version of you that you can be going forward - for yourself, your kids and your husband.

You are getting an incredible insight into the anger, hurt, pain, questions, turmoil that your husband will be going through. You are getting insider knowledge into how to do this well so you have the best possible chance of saving your marriage (if that's what you want.)

If I were you I would make the timeline of the affair in complete detail from first thoughts and encounters - to every single sex act. 

19th July - First shared a moment together or text message. I felt x, y and z. 
21st July - We arranged to meet for a coffee break . We talked about x. I felt y. 
29th July - I started to realise I was getting emotionally entangled but I felt z so I carried on. 
2nd August - We kissed in the hall. I felt x. 
5th August - I gave him a blowjob and let him come in my mouth.
11th August - I went to his apartment. I spent 2 hours there. In that time we did x, y and z sex acts. I felt x, y and x. 

Then be as honest as you can about why it happened. If you were lonely you can say you were lonely. Be honest about your feelings. Feelings are always good to share no matter what they are. Or how hard it is. Read through it multiple times. If you are minimising any feelings or not sharing fully any sex acts add them in. Share it here if you feel too as you will get helpful feedback. Then have it ready to share with your husband if he wants it. And I expect he will want it.

I suspect you will find the attitude of many here changing towards you if they see you really doing the work you need to do to demonstrate your genuine remorse and desire to do what's best for your husband not just what's best for you.

My husband had a very lite emotional affair (he doesn't consider it to be an affair and I can understand why) and it still absolutely tears me up inside on an almost daily basis. I wanted to know everything. He told me more details later on and it made it a lot harder. They still keep in touch very occasionally and I wish he would tell me everytime because it leaves me wondering when he doesn't. (sometimes he does). 

What I am trying to say is no matter how hard it is for you and how much you want to spare his feelings I suspect, without knowing him, that the absolute kindest, kindest, kindest thing you can do, if you truly love him and are thinking about him not yourself, is tell him everything. As well as anything that comes up subsequently. Radical honesty in this area of your life from now on. I saw him and I felt x. He texted me and I thought y. I blocked him and deleted his number. A cute guy at work said this admiring/affirming thing to me and it made me feel good and want to see him again like in my affair so I have deleted his number and I won't speak to him again. If you can be excruciatingly, painfully, embarassingly honest and continue to stay ahead of this always in every way it is going to go a long way to rebuilding trust.

If he knows he doesn't need to ask the questions because you will have told him everything before he even things to ask that will be an incredible gift for him.

If he has to drag it out of you, or if you tell him bit by bit or you tell him more later cause you think starting small is best I can guarantee you will erode or destroy any trust you have started to build and make restoration and forgiveness 10x harder.

If he asks questions you hadnt prepared for take a moment to breathe through your defensiveness or desire to hide. Think about how to answer the question as fully as possible and then answer the question as fully as possible.

It feels counter intuitive but you need to trust the experience of people who have been on your husband's side of this. Do everything you can think of to show you take this incredibly seriously find another job, give him your phone and email and facebook passwords. Let him track you as much as he needs to. Surrender your privacy without argument and voluntarily. 

Be there for him and his feelings. If he needs to cry or be angry or say for the 100th time how could you - let him - give him that space - don't say aren't you over this yet? He will probably never be over it. But if he feels like you always have time and attention and compassion and honesty for him when he needs it it will rebuild the trust much quicker than you might think. 

The good news is that affairs don't have to mean the end of the marriage, you can both of you come out of this stronger and more in love than before. Your old marriage is gone. This is your chance to build a new one with stronger foundations. He may not want to. But you can make your side of the foundations as strong as possible by doing the hard things people on this forum are suggesting you do. 

I suspect you got to this place by not knowing your own needs or yourself well enough to meet your own needs or communicate to your husband how he could meet those needs. This is a really good website for learning more about emotional needs. The Most Important Emotional Needs : Marriage Builders, Inc.

I suspect a part of you came alive in this affair with the other man that has been suppressed and dormant for a long time. You possibly feel like you can't be that person with your husband. I don't think that's true. It is that part of you that you need to connect with and then bring into your marriage or you will be vulnerable to another affair. You need to be able to be fully yourself and fully alive in your married relationship (if he decides to forgive you).

I wish you all the very best on this journey and I believe from what I've seen so far that you just might have the depth of courage, and character you will need to see this through in the best possible way. And if you do you will either come out of this with a better more honest marriage than you had before or you will be a better person more able to have the kind of relationship with someone else that you truly want and are longing for.

You will have to dig deep and leave behind all temptation to play the victim. Ownership and responsibility balanced with deep deep kindness and self compassion.


----------



## Young at Heart

PurpleRoses said:


> *I decided that I need to tell my husband about something that happened.* I'm not even sure to begin, but one thing I'm really just not sure about. *Can I ask him to forgive me?* Or do I just tell him and let him express his feelings?
> 
> Part of me feels like asking him will pressure him to saying certain things, but if I don't ask he may think that I don't even want him to forgive me.





PurpleRoses said:


> Well for context, I don't mean this as an excuse, but since the pandemic I've been working from home and for a number of reasons it has been stressful. A while back I got the ok to go to the office once a week, around the same time a friend of mine started coming in that day too. We started going for coffee and talking, there isn't even anyone else there. Also we talked on the instant message thing. I don't know, I started looking forward to seeing him on the office day. And I've been to his apartment too.
> 
> A few people know, but they would never say anything.





PurpleRoses said:


> I never said I think it's ok.* I'm not proud of what I've done.* There is nothing that justifies it. *I can't sleep and I have really bad anxiety.* I would be horrified if it were reversed.





PurpleRoses said:


> *It involves the F word.*


There is an interesting story about the Buddhism story about compassionate violence that may help make my point. It goes like this. In a previous life the Buddha was a sea captain and was ferrying a group of people across a sea. One of the passengers was a thief and murder. He planned on robbing everyone once they got near shore and then killing everyone he would escape by swimming to shore. The Buddha, after learning this, thought about it and decided on a course of compassionate violence. He killed the thief, tossed the body over the side in the night and told no one. This prevented the theif from committing the horrific crime of multiple murders. Had the Buddha warned the other passengers, they would have likely rioted and killed the thief. This action by the Buddha kept the passengers from the horrific crime of murder.

The point of the story is that sometimes doing the wrong thing for a compassionate reason may be the best course of action, even if it is wrong. What you did was wrong and you now know that. Of course we are not talking about human life and death, but we may be talking about the life and death of your family and marriage.

*The real point is why do you want to tell your husband and why do you want to ask for his forgiveness?* I feel it is because you feel guilty and want to be forgiven. If that is the case, I suggest you go to a Catholic Priest, confess your sins, and ask for forgiveness. Do the penance, promise to never do it again and then shut up and take your secret to your grave. It would be the "compassionate" thing to do. Alternately, you can seek individual conseling to get this off your chest and get some closure.

What you want, is to make your life easier FOR YOU by potentially harming the man who loves you. I can understand guilt. Your guilt is a form of penance for you action. You are uncomfortable with what you did and want to feel better about yourself. You feel his forgiveness will make you feel better about yourself. You need to understand that your guilt is there to prevent you from ever doing this again. You also need to understand that there is no way you can force him to forgive you. Only he, once he knows what you did can determine if he can forgive you.

There are a lot of things in life that are unfair and hard to deal with. If he ever suspects that you were unfaithful and asks, then you can ask him if he really wants to know. If he says yes, then you should probably confess to him what you did and how horrible it has made you feel. 
Others will say that marriage requires honesty and trust. I agree. I just am questioning if your confession is about you or is it to strengthen your marriage.

Good luck. What you did was horribly wrong and there was no excuse for it. It is in the past. You need to look at the future.


----------



## jsmart

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't know what to say, it was more than once. He's never suspected anything. He just thinks I've been feeling a bit depressed. I've been tested for STIs and I don't have any.
> 
> I understand that many here have been deeply hurt in the past and I am sorry that it happened to you. I can't measure up to a standard that says if you felt remorse then you wouldn't have done it in the first place. I never said that my husband made me feel lonely, I just said that I was feeling lonely. That is the truth. I get the impression that the only timeline acceptable here is one where the only reason was my burning desire to engage in depraved sex acts with the intent of detroying my husband. Well there isn't a single timeline where that would be the truth. That isn't how it happened. I didn't have a plan, not even a disorganized one. I liked his company, I developed feelings and I didn't think they would go anywhere. Even the afternoon that I went to his place, I didn't think. This isn't blame shifting, it is all my fault. My husband is going through the same difficult time as everyone else, I have no special claim to that. This has me quite emotional as I have been reading your responses all day and I have seen the hurt so plain in all your words. I have to accept that I did this to my husband.


Your husband may be depressed but he may have a feeling in his gut that something is not right with your marriage but doesn’t want to let his mind go to you betraying him as the reason. When you confess, it will click in his mind, that he was suspecting it. 

We have mentioned the wanton sex acts because MANY times WWs become someone else for their OM. Maybe you were one of the few who just had sex but I’d bet it was very passionate, am I right? Your husband will think it was. You said you developed feelings, which happens to the majority of WWs. Did you stop having sex with your husband or dial back the passion you had with your husband? MANY WWs later report that they’re not able to have sex with their husband because they’re no longer feel that way for their husband. Some go through the motions but their minds and body are still with other man. 

We’re telling you this not to beat you up but to get you to realize the depth of your betrayal and a lot of the things your husband will be thinking about. Writing a timeline is for your husband to know what he’s forgiving. You don’t need to go into details with us but we’re asking these questions to get you to think through how you confess and the best way to make this less painful for your husband. I do see some hope in that you do appear to be sorry for what you have done but you didn’t crash his car, or break his favorite tool. What he cherishes most about you, was enthusiastically given to another man. NOTHING you do can reverse that. Some couples are able to come back from that but it requires a truly remorseful spouse. If you get tired of his questions and start to pressuring him to rug sweep after a few weeks, it will not work.

Get the How to Help your Spouse Heal From Your Affair. It’s an excellent book that can help guide you. Also read Not Just Friends. Next right the timeline of the affair, get tested for STDs, quit that job, send a no contact email to OM, block him on EVERYTHING. 

When you confess, do not trickle truth. Here are VERY common questions that BHs ask: Did you tell OM you love him? How many times you had sex. If you used protection? Did you perform oral? If so, did you swallow? Did you do anal? Did you discuss leaving each other’s spouses? Was he better than me, was he bigger than me? Be prepared to answer such questions. We don’t need to know but your husband will want to know and he deserves honesty.


----------



## Sufi22

PR - this is excellent advise from Fly with Me


----------



## Robert22205

Before you confess I suggest you read two books:

*"**How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful"*
by Linda J. MacDonald (Author) 

And to help you develop a plan for your husband to protect your marriage going forward as well as to understand some of the things you should have done differently read: *" Not Just Friends*" by Dr Shirley Glass

It's based on research of couples ('good' people) that experienced infidelity. People like you that thought they could manage the 'friendship'. What they did wrong and what they could have done to protect their marriage.


----------



## Luckylucky

Another thing to add, think of your affair as the white powder. Cocaine is really expensive and really good, until it isn’t. And you can stay away and so on, but you’ve tried it and you know it well. So you may go back… just that one time, or two. 

Please be aware that once you confess, and it gets hard and ugly (if it does, let’s assume the worst), you may reach out to the AP. Or even someone new for support. I know you might be thinking no way, that’s not going to happen, but do be aware it’s a possibility. Especially if the worst happens with your husband. So moving forward, try to think of the morning after the cocaine when you wake up and your face is terrible and your mood is low, how much money you spent that could have been a new handbag, or a night out with the family. Does this make sense? 

It would be helpful to find a friend or family member for support (no males, they need to be female), but someone you know well, who knows you well and wants the best for you. Someone who wants to see you save your marriage and who is going to chastise you. This is honestly the best thing for you. The person who will pat you on the back and tell you your husband had it coming is not your friend. Eyes open here. You WILL need a good friend. Criticism (of the gentle kind) isn’t going to beat you down, but will help you so much in the long run. Take the punches from everyone, not the praise - that’s the only way you’ll learn to like yourself.


----------



## RebuildingMe

I hope you are more transparent with him that you have been on this thread. You don’t owe us anything. I think you are closer then most, at this stage, with your mindset. Be prepared with details and be prepared for the fallout. You’ve dodged the question about quitting your job, but it’s probably going to be a requirement. If he doesn’t ask you to quit, it’s most likely because he is heading for a divorce and he’ll want you to have that income on paper. I give you credit for coming back to the thread. It’s going to get a whole lot harder for you. This thread may be a good emotional outlet for you. Good luck.


----------



## Young at Heart

GusPolinski said:


> It’s always a kick to see how utterly devoid some people are of any sort of meaningful morality, lemme tell ya.
> 
> “iF yOu kNOw YOu’Ll NeVEr dO It AGaIN it’S pRoBAblY BEst NoT to TelL…”
> 
> And if she does? At what point does it become incumbent upon just a basic, general sense of decency to confess?


You and I have disagreed in the past on things. In this case, I do agree with you to the extent that she should confess.

The only questions in my mind is why is she confessing and to whom she should confess.

After 70 plus years of life, I have seen a lot and understand that life is complex and further that "meaningful morality" or a "general sense of decency" are quite complex topics. What she did was wrong, terribly wrong. Now the question is what will make her life and her husband's life better. We can agree to disagree on that.


----------



## Robert22205

Do not try to manipulate him or control his decision to divorce or reconcile - it will backfire on you.

Answer every question regardless of your shame or even if you think it will make reconciling more difficult. 

NOTE: the clock for his healing starts the day you confess - but resets every time you release more information. Every time the clock resets he relives his initial pain all over again. Therefore, don't torture him further, make sure he knows everything up front.

Any further dishonesty (including withholding information for his sake) will pretty much guarantee divorce.

With respect to timelines, I suggest you prepare two timelines and that way give him the option to read or not. 
One very high level and one very detailed (including every act, every location for sex/lunch, every conversation, every thought, including what you were thinking when you returned home and kissed your husband). Leave nothing out of the detailed timeline.

And finally, volunteer to take a lie detector test. Why? because based on your behavior you are no longer trustworthy. Your promises (including tears self hate etc) are not reliable. It will take years to rebuild the kind of trust you had.


----------



## Young at Heart

PurpleRoses said:


> Omg, I thought it would go without saying that it isn't still happening. How could I even think about asking my husband to forgive me if I was still seeing him? We still work together, but I stopped going to the office, so I am not seeing him. We don't even really work in the same section, so we don't need to communicate for work.
> 
> I know as well as anyone the mess I've made. Our anniversary is later this month and it should be a celebration of 20 years and I'm completely terrified of the date now. It is absolutely terrible what I've done and I am not proud. We have kids too and I have no idea how this will effect them and I feel unimaginable guilt for that. I can't sleep, I have trouble eating and he knows something is wrong and what's worse is that it's going to be worse for him, I know that, and he didn't even do anything to deserve it. It wasn't my husband, I just felt lonely and isolated.


Good luck.


----------



## Young at Heart

Kaliber said:


> @PurpleRoses There are two camps when it comes to stopping an affair and being remorseful and drowned in guilt and shame:
> 
> 1- Take it to the grave, and never do something like this ever again, and be a damn good wife (go over and beyond), however, this is a two edge sword, because if he finds out (had a gut feeling and starts investigating) it will be a disaster, that is, if he finds out!
> 
> 2- Confess to you husband every thing, and prepare a time line of your affair from A to Z, also prepare to leave your job, and ask your husband for forgiveness and hope that he will offer you a second chance, there is a possibility you will lose your 20 years of marriage, but that's the risk you took when you broke your vows, and allowed another man to enjoy your body for free, your husband paid the full price (20 years of his life, financially and emotionally) for something that another man got for free and easy!
> 
> @PurpleRoses, think carefully and rationally before you chose your path!
> 
> 
> 
> @MattMatt, I'm in this camp as well, known been cheated is enough, seen to many BS asking for sex details and it caused them mental damage and they never recovered!


Very well said. It is a difficult chose and should be carefully considered as to what the OP hopes to achieve.


----------



## GusPolinski

Young at Heart said:


> You and I have disagreed in the past on things. In this case, I do agree with you to the extent that she should confess.
> 
> The only questions in my mind is why is she confessing and to whom she should confess.
> 
> After 70 plus years of life, I have seen a lot and understand that life is complex and further that "meaningful morality" or a "general sense of decency" are quite complex topics. What she did was wrong, terribly wrong. Now the question is what will make her life and her husband's life better. We can agree to disagree on that.


Sounds like moral escapism.

Unsurprisingly, I find that I’m OK with the notion of disagreeing with anyone that would subscribe to such drivel.


----------



## Harold Demure

“A few people know but they would never tell”. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. The fact that people know and could tell your husband will hang over your head for ever.

“I just felt lonely and isolated“ what a load of sloblock.


----------



## Divinely Favored

PurpleRoses said:


> I am going to tell him. I just don't know how to do it or where to start. I understand that I don't get to control his reaction but I'm still worried about it. I'm just in a really bad place right now, I was sort of hoping that someone had been through this and it worked out in the end. This is just making me more anxious.
> 
> If it were reversed, I wouldn't want to know anything about it, just that he was sorry and still loved me. I don't think I could talk about it like that. I'm ashamed of the entire thing.


You realize to possible make tgis work you are going to have to quit so you no longer work with your FBoy. Tell him who so if hubby wants to go after him, it is his right. Is guy married, have GF.


----------



## GusPolinski

PurpleRoses said:


> If it were reversed, I wouldn't want to know anything about it, just that he was sorry and still loved me. I don't think I could talk about it like that. I'm ashamed of the entire thing.


OK, let’s turn the tables and say that he’d cheated —

How would you know he was sorry if he didn’t talk with you about it?

How would you know he loved you — TRULY loved you — if he didn’t give you the freedom to make an informed decision on whether or not to stay in the marriage in light of what he’d done?


----------



## DownByTheRiver

If you haven't done anything with your friend and you don't intend to, then tell the friend all that is over because you don't feel right about it and then keep your mouth shut. 

If you did do something, don't expect forgiveness.


----------



## uphillbattle

DownByTheRiver said:


> If you haven't done anything with your friend and you don't intend to, then tell the friend all that is over because you don't feel right about it and then keep your mouth shut.
> 
> If you did do something, don't expect forgiveness.


I'm gonna guess you only read the first post before posting this.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Fly With Me said:


> Hey Purple Roses
> 
> What you are doing on this thread is incredibly healthy and if you can stick it out it will massively help when you confess to your husband. I think you are a good person who has done an incredibly awful thing. You need to separate out your identity and who you are from your actions. You need to give yourself incredible kindness and compassion for who you are and what led you to this. And you need to be tough as nails with yourself for your actions and what you did. You will get much more of the latter here as you've already discovered but it will help you in the long run. Tough love.
> 
> Beating yourself up and feeling bad about yourself and endlessly condemning yourself will get you nowhere. Conviction of how wrong your actions were, steadfast and committed action in the right direction for MONTHS and likely YEARS regardless of the consequences for you will get you everywhere.
> 
> You need to come to terms with what you have done AND that no matter what you will be ok. You can choose for this to be a line in the sand where regardless of what happens with your marriage you become the best version of you that you can be going forward - for yourself, your kids and your husband.
> 
> You are getting an incredible insight into the anger, hurt, pain, questions, turmoil that your husband will be going through. You are getting insider knowledge into how to do this well so you have the best possible chance of saving your marriage (if that's what you want.)
> 
> If I were you I would make the timeline of the affair in complete detail from first thoughts and encounters - to every single sex act.
> 
> 19th July - First shared a moment together or text message. I felt x, y and z.
> 21st July - We arranged to meet for a coffee break . We talked about x. I felt y.
> 29th July - I started to realise I was getting emotionally entangled but I felt z so I carried on.
> 2nd August - We kissed in the hall. I felt x.
> 5th August - I gave him a blowjob and let him come in my mouth.
> 11th August - I went to his apartment. I spent 2 hours there. In that time we did x, y and z sex acts. I felt x, y and x.
> 
> Then be as honest as you can about why it happened. If you were lonely you can say you were lonely. Be honest about your feelings. Feelings are always good to share no matter what they are. Or how hard it is. Read through it multiple times. If you are minimising any feelings or not sharing fully any sex acts add them in. Share it here if you feel too as you will get helpful feedback. Then have it ready to share with your husband if he wants it. And I expect he will want it.
> 
> I suspect you will find the attitude of many here changing towards you if they see you really doing the work you need to do to demonstrate your genuine remorse and desire to do what's best for your husband not just what's best for you.
> 
> My husband had a very lite emotional affair (he doesn't consider it to be an affair and I can understand why) and it still absolutely tears me up inside on an almost daily basis. I wanted to know everything. He told me more details later on and it made it a lot harder. They still keep in touch very occasionally and I wish he would tell me everytime because it leaves me wondering when he doesn't. (sometimes he does).
> 
> What I am trying to say is no matter how hard it is for you and how much you want to spare his feelings I suspect, without knowing him, that the absolute kindest, kindest, kindest thing you can do, if you truly love him and are thinking about him not yourself, is tell him everything. As well as anything that comes up subsequently. Radical honesty in this area of your life from now on. I saw him and I felt x. He texted me and I thought y. I blocked him and deleted his number. A cute guy at work said this admiring/affirming thing to me and it made me feel good and want to see him again like in my affair so I have deleted his number and I won't speak to him again. If you can be excruciatingly, painfully, embarassingly honest and continue to stay ahead of this always in every way it is going to go a long way to rebuilding trust.
> 
> If he knows he doesn't need to ask the questions because you will have told him everything before he even things to ask that will be an incredible gift for him.
> 
> If he has to drag it out of you, or if you tell him bit by bit or you tell him more later cause you think starting small is best I can guarantee you will erode or destroy any trust you have started to build and make restoration and forgiveness 10x harder.
> 
> If he asks questions you hadnt prepared for take a moment to breathe through your defensiveness or desire to hide. Think about how to answer the question as fully as possible and then answer the question as fully as possible.
> 
> It feels counter intuitive but you need to trust the experience of people who have been on your husband's side of this. Do everything you can think of to show you take this incredibly seriously find another job, give him your phone and email and facebook passwords. Let him track you as much as he needs to. Surrender your privacy without argument and voluntarily.
> 
> Be there for him and his feelings. If he needs to cry or be angry or say for the 100th time how could you - let him - give him that space - don't say aren't you over this yet? He will probably never be over it. But if he feels like you always have time and attention and compassion and honesty for him when he needs it it will rebuild the trust much quicker than you might think.
> 
> The good news is that affairs don't have to mean the end of the marriage, you can both of you come out of this stronger and more in love than before. Your old marriage is gone. This is your chance to build a new one with stronger foundations. He may not want to. But you can make your side of the foundations as strong as possible by doing the hard things people on this forum are suggesting you do.
> 
> I suspect you got to this place by not knowing your own needs or yourself well enough to meet your own needs or communicate to your husband how he could meet those needs. This is a really good website for learning more about emotional needs. The Most Important Emotional Needs : Marriage Builders, Inc.
> 
> I suspect a part of you came alive in this affair with the other man that has been suppressed and dormant for a long time. You possibly feel like you can't be that person with your husband. I don't think that's true. It is that part of you that you need to connect with and then bring into your marriage or you will be vulnerable to another affair. You need to be able to be fully yourself and fully alive in your married relationship (if he decides to forgive you).
> 
> I wish you all the very best on this journey and I believe from what I've seen so far that you just might have the depth of courage, and character you will need to see this through in the best possible way. And if you do you will either come out of this with a better more honest marriage than you had before or you will be a better person more able to have the kind of relationship with someone else that you truly want and are longing for.
> 
> You will have to dig deep and leave behind all temptation to play the victim. Ownership and responsibility balanced with deep deep kindness and self compassion.


Thank-you for taking the time to write this. It is sober and inspiring.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

That's usually what I read, since that's the question.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Purple rose I have a question for you are willing to do everything and anything to save your marriage? ( Ie quitting your job, exposing your guilt to the family, etc..)


----------



## BigDaddyNY

DownByTheRiver said:


> That's usually what I read, since that's the question.


Then you missed the fact that she had sex with her AP multiple times and they work for the same employer. Not sure if that would change you response.


----------



## uphillbattle

BigDaddyNY said:


> Then you missed the fact that she had sex with her AP multiple times and they work for the same employer. Not sure if that would change you response.


her response could easily hold true


----------



## NicoleT

PurpleRoses said:


> I am going to tell him. I just don't know how to do it or where to start. I understand that I don't get to control his reaction but I'm still worried about it. I'm just in a really bad place right now, I was sort of hoping that someone had been through this and it worked out in the end. This is just making me more anxious.
> 
> If it were reversed, I wouldn't want to know anything about it, just that he was sorry and still loved me. I don't think I could talk about it like that. I'm ashamed of the entire thing.


Im sorry you are here. I am a WW (10 years ago, an exit affair reversal mess) still experiencing the after shocks. I came clean when we reconciled and gave my husband the choice of what he wanted to do. He chose to keep me around and punish me by witholding everything from emotions to financial decisions to meaningful conversations. Now I have reached the point where I cant do anything more to show I am not the same person I was. I gave my life to Jesus 6 years ago for goodness' sake! But no, a leopard never changes its spots Im told. He has chosen to remain angry and mistrustful when I have literally never looked at another man since. Why he kept me around at all I have no idea but I am broken now. Ready to leave. No longer love him. Theres more to this story but my point is that I have no answers for you hun. Each situation is different. He is going to be angry and heartbroken and you will face 'those' questions more than likely. Be honest. Hope for forgiveness rather than ask for it if that makes sense. Hes a grown man and he deserves the choice of what to make of his life after you have blown it up in his face. (Sorry, I know that's harsh but I did it myself and the fall out really sucks. It IS what you've done). Anyway, good luck. Keep posting. Theres a load of helpful advice here either way. But dont lie here. Or withold. Cos someone will be on to you and then its over. If you are looking for help then honesty is the best policy. Cheers.


----------



## LATERILUS79

PurpleRoses said:


> My marriage isn't a series of denials. We were having sex, there weren't any whips, leather or chains involved.
> 
> There are so many assumptions here. I was afraid to do it. I can't help that I did it now, but how can that be compared to confessing something like this? And I did end it ok, I felt horribly guilty and ended it. And you know what? It didn't help, I still feel very an overwhelming sense of guilt and shame. I love my husband and it breaks my heart that I did this to him. I am not a callous hateful person, I'm really not.


You see, I'm always amazed when I see a cheater say "I love my spouse". Really? Do you really? Are you 100% sure about that?

I don't think you are sure. In fact, I don't think you love your husband. Certainly not on the level that you love yourself. 

Just curious, did you love your husband while you were doing the "f-word" with the other man? Be honest. Were you just thinking, "boy, my husband is the best! I sure do love him sooooooo much while this other man keeps f-wording me! Just doing this with this other man reminds me of how much I love my husband!". Did you think of your children and how much you love them while engaging in the f-word with someone outside of your husband?

I'll agree with you with this: hearing "if you had remorse you wouldn't have slept with someone else in the first place."

It doesn't make sense because you have to first do something bad to feel remorse. This statement makes more sense like this: if you had any empathy whatsoever for someone else's feelings, especially of the man you "love", you wouldn't have acted in such a horrific selfish, self serving manner. 


If this hasn't made sense, I'll answer the original question for you. 

You don't love your husband. You only thought you did. You just went along with your life until an opportunity came across your lap to allow your true self to shine. Now you see your true self, and you don't like what you see. 

If you truly loved your husband, you wouldn't have cheated on him. Plain and simple.


----------



## NicoleT

PurpleRoses said:


> I am going to tell him. I just don't know how to do it or where to start. I understand that I don't get to control his reaction but I'm still worried about it. I'm just in a really bad place right now, I was sort of hoping that someone had been through this and it worked out in the end. This is just making me more anxious.
> 
> If it were reversed, I wouldn't want to know anything about it, just that he was sorry and still loved me. I don't think I could talk about it like that. I'm ashamed of the entire thing.


Gus Polisnki had good advice... but unfortunately if you work with this guy going zero contact is going to be hard unless you get another job. A possible reconciliation wont be possible if you are still working with the guy after you have told you husband? See what I mean? The fallout sucks. Every bloody thing. Are there kids involved?


----------



## NicoleT

LATERILUS79 said:


> You see, I'm always amazed when I see a cheater say "I love my spouse". Really? Do you really? Are you 100% sure about that?
> 
> I don't think you are sure. In fact, I don't think you love your husband. Certainly not on the level that you love yourself.
> 
> Just curious, did you love your husband while you were doing the "f-word" with the other man? Be honest. Were you just thinking, "boy, my husband is the best! I sure do love him sooooooo much while this other man keeps f-wording me! Just doing this with this other man reminds me of how much I love my husband!". Did you think of your children and how much you love them while engaging in the f-word with someone outside of your husband?
> 
> I'll agree with you with this: hearing "if you had remorse you wouldn't have slept with someone else in the first place."
> 
> It doesn't make sense because you have to first do something bad to feel remorse. This statement makes more sense like this: if you had any empathy whatsoever for someone else's feelings, especially of the man you "love", you wouldn't have acted in such a horrific selfish, self serving manner.
> 
> 
> If this hasn't made sense, I'll answer the original question for you.
> 
> You don't love your husband. You only thought you did. You just went along with your life until an opportunity came across your lap to allow your true self to shine. Now you see your true self, and you don't like what you see.
> 
> If you truly loved your husband, you wouldn't have cheated on him. Plain and simple.


I get your heart, ok, I really did feel the same... Listen, you are going to get a lot of flak here from people who have been HURT (what your husband is going to feel after you confess your crimes) so try and take it from strangers first and see it as a growth opportunity. They also have valuable experience which is worth receiving the anger in return and which is no less than you really deserve so stick around woman! Like I said, strangers, so take each comment with a pinch of salt, toss what you dont need. Dont take it personally. I know a lot of it can sting but you are a big girl now..


----------



## NicoleT

LATERILUS79 said:


> You see, I'm always amazed when I see a cheater say "I love my spouse". Really? Do you really? Are you 100% sure about that?
> 
> I don't think you are sure. In fact, I don't think you love your husband. Certainly not on the level that you love yourself.
> 
> Just curious, did you love your husband while you were doing the "f-word" with the other man? Be honest. Were you just thinking, "boy, my husband is the best! I sure do love him sooooooo much while this other man keeps f-wording me! Just doing this with this other man reminds me of how much I love my husband!". Did you think of your children and how much you love them while engaging in the f-word with someone outside of your husband?
> 
> I'll agree with you with this: hearing "if you had remorse you wouldn't have slept with someone else in the first place."
> 
> It doesn't make sense because you have to first do something bad to feel remorse. This statement makes more sense like this: if you had any empathy whatsoever for someone else's feelings, especially of the man you "love", you wouldn't have acted in such a horrific selfish, self serving manner.
> 
> 
> If this hasn't made sense, I'll answer the original question for you.
> 
> You don't love your husband. You only thought you did. You just went along with your life until an opportunity came across your lap to allow your true self to shine. Now you see your true self, and you don't like what you see.
> 
> If you truly loved your husband, you wouldn't have cheated on him. Plain and simple.


I dont have the time to answer this now but I call bullsh!t. Maybe I didnt think of my husband when I did the deed but I sure as hell was not connected with the man either. Split from my husband I was, I still feel like I had sex outside myself. I did NOT enjoy it. Serves me right. Yes, horrific, selfish, self serving, but self righteous pompous and bitter isnt helping. Why do you people insist on chasing the waywards away? Calm the eff down and be kind.


----------



## DudeInProgress

NicoleT said:


> I get your heart, ok, I really did feel the same... Listen, you are going to get a lot of flak here from people who have been HURT (what your husband is going to feel after you confess your crimes) so try and take it from strangers first and see it as a growth opportunity. They also have valuable experience which is worth receiving the anger in return and which is no less than you really deserve so stick around woman! Like I said, strangers, so take each comment with a pinch of salt, toss what you dont need. Dont take it personally. I know a lot of it can sting but you are a big girl now..


And if you can’t take it with grace from a few strangers on the Internet, how are you going to handle it with grace when it’s your devastated husband, in front of you, justifiably giving you far worse?


----------



## LATERILUS79

NicoleT said:


> I dont have the time to answer this now but I call bullsh!t. Maybe I didnt think of my husband when I did the deed but I sure as hell was not connected with the man either. Split from my husband I was, I still feel like I had sex outside myself. I did NOT enjoy it. Serves me right. Yes, horrific, selfish, self serving, but self righteous pompous and bitter isnt helping. Why do you people insist on chasing the waywards away? Calm the eff down and be kind.


You know one of the ways I show my wife that I love and respect her?

By NOT sleeping with other women. Even when we have our rough years and I'm not blissfully in love with my wife, I still love and respect her. I promised myself to her and only her. I turn down any opportunity that comes my way. Why? Because of the pain and anguish it would cause her and the loss of integrity in myself. 

You said it yourself. You didn't think of your husband when you slept with someone else. 

You know who I think about when another woman hits on me? My wife. Then I think about what this would do to her if I allowed the flirting to continue.

So please, save your explanation and come back to reality.


----------



## GoldenR

"I get the impression that the only timeline acceptable here is one where the only reason was my burning desire to engage in depraved sex acts with the intent of detroying my husband. Well there isn't a single timeline where that would be the truth."

So you had no clue it would hurt him? It wasn't until after you had your fill of affair sex that you...what? You researched on the internet and realized it would hurt him? Come on....


----------



## Luckylucky

Please reread her posts. She’s not blaming her husband, not blame shifting, not even blaming the other guy. And she’s feeling bad for her husband and taking all the punches here. So yes, it just might sometimes take a stupid other man to realise who she has in front of her. 

We get a tonne of wayward’s here spewing vitriol, playing victim, even accusing the AP of being to blame, calling posters awful names and so on. Still justifying how they did what they did and giving lengthy descriptions all about the other guy/other woman. She’s owning it all. And understanding what her husband is going to feel. We don’t get many of these people here, and I truly think she is remorseful and wants to do the right thing. She’s not even thinking about the other man.


----------



## GoldenR

Sorry, but saying she didn't think it would hurt him is not being honest or remorseful. She's here playing the role of poor little lost lamb in the woods who had no clue what would happen when she went to his house.


****ing. Please.


----------



## Galabar01

DudeInProgress said:


> And if you can’t take it with grace from a few strangers on the Internet, how are you going to handle it with grace when it’s your devastated husband, in front of you, justifiably giving you far worse?


Clearly she "gave herself to Jesus." So, we must forgive her. Now, if she just hadn't given herself to the AP...


----------



## Kaliber

Fly With Me said:


> If I were you I would make the timeline of the affair in complete detail from first thoughts and encounters - to every single sex act.
> 
> 19th July - First shared a moment together or text message. I felt x, y and z.
> 21st July - We arranged to meet for a coffee break . We talked about x. I felt y.
> 29th July - I started to realise I was getting emotionally entangled but I felt z so I carried on.
> 2nd August - We kissed in the hall. I felt x.
> 5th August - I gave him a blowjob and let him come in my mouth.
> 11th August - I went to his apartment. I spent 2 hours there. In that time we did x, y and z sex acts. I felt x, y and x.
> 
> Then be as honest as you can about why it happened.


@PurpleRoses I would be very careful including the actual details of the sex acts in your timeline!
Don't included it initially, but be ready to do so if he asks for it, some men don't want to know these details and some do, you don't know yet, and you don't want to risk causing more damage to your husband just to find out he didn't want to know, but be prepared to enclose these details IF he asks for it, that's my advice!


----------



## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> Well for context, I don't mean this as an excuse, but since the pandemic I've been working from home and for a number of reasons it has been stressful. A while back I got the ok to go to the office once a week,* around the same time a friend of mine started coming in that day too.* We started going for coffee and talking, there isn't even anyone else there. Also we talked on the instant message thing. I don't know, I started looking forward to seeing him on the office day. And I've been to his apartment too.
> 
> A few people know, but they would never say anything.


I just noticed what is in bold, that your lover was also a friend. When did you meet and how long were you friends? Interesting how he just "happened" to start "coming" in on the first day you were back to the office. And believe you said you were the only two back at the office, that there wasn't anyone else there. Did you both plan the meetup on social media or text? Have the two of you "f-worded" before this time, maybe before your husband and you married? Do you have a history with your boyfriend? You also never mentioned you and your husband's ages, am guessing early 40s? Is your boyfriend younger and better looking than your husband?


----------



## NicoleT

LATERILUS79 said:


> You know one of the ways I show my wife that I love and respect her?
> 
> By NOT sleeping with other women. Even when we have our rough years and I'm not blissfully in love with my wife, I still love and respect her. I promised myself to her and only her. I turn down any opportunity that comes my way. Why? Because of the pain and anguish it would cause her and the loss of integrity in myself.
> 
> You said it yourself. You didn't think of your husband when you slept with someone else.
> 
> You know who I think about when another woman hits on me? My wife. Then I think about what this would do to her if I allowed the flirting to continue.
> 
> So please, save your explanation and come back to reality.


Good for you. Integrity is rare. And there is no excuse for infidelity. I was separated. I chose to come clean. I was trying to move on. Like I said, exit-affair-reversal-mess.


----------



## NicoleT

PurpleRoses said:


> Thank-you for taking the time to write this. It is sober and inspiring.


Good advice.


----------



## NicoleT

PurpleRoses said:


> I decided that I need to tell my husband about something that happened. I'm not even sure to begin, but one thing I'm really just not sure about. Can I ask him to forgive me? Or do I just tell him and let him express his feelings?
> 
> Part of me feels like asking him will pressure him to saying certain things, but if I don't ask he may think that I don't even want him to forgive me.


What is missing from your marriage that you sought endorsement elsewhere?


----------



## PurpleRoses

GoldenR said:


> "I get the impression that the only timeline acceptable here is one where the only reason was my burning desire to engage in depraved sex acts with the intent of detroying my husband. Well there isn't a single timeline where that would be the truth."
> 
> So you had no clue it would hurt him? It wasn't until after you had your fill of affair sex that you...what? You researched on the internet and realized it would hurt him? Come on....


Oh come on, when I was doing it, I figured he would never find out. My head wasn't in the right place and I thought I could just balance things and I minimized what I was doing. Day to day, I convinced myself it was no big deal.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

PurpleRoses said:


> Day to day, I convinced myself it was no big deal.


I am genuinely interested in the answer. How does a woman convince herself that the literal worst thing she can ever do to her husband (yes, I would place it up there with actually murdering him, only less compassionate) is no big deal?

I really want to find out how a woman can justify that to herself?


----------



## PurpleRoses

Rus47 said:


> I just noticed what is in bold, that your lover was also a friend. When did you meet and how long were you friends? Interesting how he just "happened" to start "coming" in on the first day you were back to the office. And believe you said you were the only two back at the office, that there wasn't anyone else there. Did you both plan the meetup on social media or text? Have the two of you "f-worded" before this time, maybe before your husband and you married? Do you have a history with your boyfriend? You also never mentioned you and your husband's ages, am guessing early 40s? Is your boyfriend younger and better looking than your husband?


He was a friend, but nothing more than that, it wasn't a plan to hook up. I started going to work first and I told him that he could ask for permission, not a lot of people know that you can. I wasn't trying to get a date or anything. There has been a lot of isolation this year and I wanted to be a bit social. We are in our early 40s, he's a bit younger but not a lot. We were friends before as in that he had been over for a few Christmas season parties we have for our friends every year. I didn't really see him outside of work other than that.


----------



## marko polo

Luckylucky said:


> Please reread her posts. She’s not blaming her husband, not blame shifting, not even blaming the other guy. And she’s feeling bad for her husband and taking all the punches here. So yes, it just might sometimes take a stupid other man to realise who she has in front of her.
> 
> We get a tonne of wayward’s here spewing vitriol, playing victim, even accusing the AP of being to blame, calling posters awful names and so on. Still justifying how they did what they did and giving lengthy descriptions all about the other guy/other woman. She’s owning it all. And understanding what her husband is going to feel. We don’t get many of these people here, and I truly think she is remorseful and wants to do the right thing. She’s not even thinking about the other man.


Like any other wayward she is acting in her own best interest. Why does she want to confess? To be true and fair to her husband or is it because of the following :

_We have kids too and I have no idea how this will effect them and I feel unimaginable guilt for that. I can't sleep, I have trouble eating and he knows something is wrong and what's worse is that it's going to be worse for him, I know that, and he didn't even do anything to deserve it. It wasn't my husband, I just felt lonely and isolated._

Her husband knows something is amiss. She is at risk of discovery by her husband or possibly exposure by another at work. She cannot sleep and suffers anxiety because she knows exactly the consequences to follow. She has no idea what her husband will feel. *Likely she knows how he will react.*

She placed her needs over those of her husband and children like any other wayward.

She also hasn't decided to let the other man go.
*How could I even think about asking my husband to forgive me if I was still seeing him?*

The rest of this statement reads like back peddling - _We still work together, but I stopped going to the office, so I am not seeing him. We don't even really work in the same section, so we don't need to communicate for work._

This wayward may not be combative or arrogant. Yet she is no different from any other wayward. She is still trying to have it both ways - keep the door open for the AP and keep her husband and family. She still works with the AP and where there was opportunity before there will be opportunity again.

If she was sincere in wanting to confess she would have done so already. Instead she is here sounding out the various ways she may cushion her landing. Desperate to avoid the destruction to follow. The time to suffer anxiety and sleeplessness over such a poor set of choices is before you commit to the error. *It is pointless for her to worry about the consequences now as they are unavoidable.*


----------



## PurpleRoses

Dictum Veritas said:


> I am genuinely interested in the answer. How does a woman convince herself that the literal worst thing she can ever do to her husband (yes, I would place it up there with actually murdering him, only less compassionate) is no big deal?
> 
> I really want to find out how a woman can justify that to herself?


Because I was lying to myself and everyone around me. I could never apologize for the number of lies I've told over the last number of months. I seriously lost track and I even started to believe them, even the biggest ones.


----------



## GoldenR

Even if he didn't know, you were still hurting your BH. Taking time and energy away from your marriage and giving it to your boyfriend, not to mention putting your BH's health at risk, bc if you think you're the only one your man was ****ing, you're delusional.

And just bc you thought what he didn't know wouldn't hurt him, you always knew there was a chance he could find out and be destroyed, AND YOU DIDN'T CARE.

Those are the actions of someone that despises their SO.

If your boyfriend had been single and wanted you, there's no doubt you would have left your BH for him. I mean, if you choose your boyfriend over your BH when he's not available, surely you'd be with him full time if it was possible, otherwise, why choose him over your BH In the first place. You prefer your boyfriend.

If you do confess, end the confession with, "...and I'm leaving you". Give your BH a chance at finding a real wife.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

PurpleRoses said:


> Because I was lying to myself and everyone around me. I could never apologize for the number of lies I've told over the last number of months. I seriously lost track and I even started to believe them, even the biggest ones.


When do you plan for the lies to end then?


----------



## Robert22205

Is the OM married?

Please read the books I recommended.
Your affair is typical (as is your thought process during it).

Convincing yourself that your spouse will never (Never) find out is typical wayward thinking.
As is lying 24/7 and convincing yourself ...


----------



## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> He was a friend, but nothing more than that, it wasn't a plan to hook up. I started going to work first and I told him that he could ask for permission, not a lot of people know that you can. I wasn't trying to get a date or anything. There has been a lot of isolation this year and I wanted to be a bit social. We are in our early 40s, he's a bit younger but not a lot. We were friends before as in that he had been over for a few Christmas season parties we have for our friends every year. I didn't really see him outside of work other than that.


So your husband knows your boyfriend. You never said if BF is married, so will assume he is an unattached late 30s, better looking and more fit than your husband. Lot of guys like your boyfriend find plenty of bored unhappy married women where they work fallow fields to plow. Assume that any of his male friends at work know all about what you and your boyfriend did this summer, some of them may contact you.

How long ago was your last sexual contact with your boyfriend? Who stopped it and why?

Were you and/or husband married before? Do either of you have significant past before you married?

Others have advised you to quit your job. And your husband may demand that. Personally, I would think that is not a very good idea because if you end up divorced you need a source of income, and because if you have no income your husband will be saddled with more support to you and your kids. Adding insult to injury. And you really wont necessarily know for awhile whether divorce happens. Your husband may think he can overcome this only to decide a year or two down the road that he can't.


----------



## Divinely Favored

PurpleRoses said:


> Oh come on, when I was doing it, I figured he would never find out. My head wasn't in the right place and I thought I could just balance things and I minimized what I was doing. Day to day, I convinced myself it was no big deal.


REALLY?! WOW!


----------



## jparistotle

Going into this what was your plan and what was the AP's plan? What is your plan if your husband does not forgive you? Dou you have any kids?


----------



## ArthurGPym

Dictum Veritas said:


> disease and hated viscosity that it encapsulates.


Oh man... this would make a great title for a metal song. Can I use this?


----------



## LATERILUS79

PurpleRoses said:


> Oh come on, when I was doing it, I figured he would never find out.


That makes it ok, right? This is one of those things that cheaters seem to miss a lot. 

Every second you spent with your AP is a second you could have been spending with your husband or your children. You think you go home and everything is ok, but it isn't. You act differently. You look different. You feel different. What you've done is stab your husband in the back. He knows that he is bleeding out. He just doesn't know what caused the wound. He's just slowing dying. This is what is happening while a cheater says, "No one gets hurt if no one knows".


----------



## SunCMars

NicoleT said:


> Im sorry you are here. I am a WW (10 years ago, an exit affair reversal mess) still experiencing the after shocks. I came clean when we reconciled and gave my husband the choice of what he wanted to do. He chose to keep me around and punish me by witholding everything from emotions to financial decisions to meaningful conversations. Now I have reached the point where I cant do anything more to show I am not the same person I was. I gave my life to Jesus 6 years ago for goodness' sake! But no, a leopard never changes its spots Im told. He has chosen to remain angry and mistrustful when I have literally never looked at another man since. Why he kept me around at all I have no idea but I am broken now. Ready to leave. No longer love him. Theres more to this story but my point is that I have no answers for you hun. Each situation is different. He is going to be angry and heartbroken and you will face 'those' questions more than likely. Be honest. Hope for forgiveness rather than ask for it if that makes sense. Hes a grown man and he deserves the choice of what to make of his life after you have blown it up in his face. (Sorry, I know that's harsh but I did it myself and the fall out really sucks. It IS what you've done). Anyway, good luck. Keep posting. Theres a load of helpful advice here either way. But dont lie here. Or withold. Cos someone will be on to you and then its over. If you are looking for help then honesty is the best policy. Cheers.


This was my exact reason for PurpleRoses keeping silent on her affair.

If she wants to stay married, she should never reveal what she did.

She should treat her husband like a king, now, and forever.....thereafter.
Make it up to him by being a perfect wife and companion.

If she no longer loves him, just leave, cite incompatibility and her falling out of love.


*Either way, why tell, why crush an innocent soul?*


_Truth can be freeing.
Truth, such as this, can suffocate the victim of it.
Only those, also cruel, resort to such, this honesty.

The below edited for clarity:_
If a cheater is rightly suspected of cheating, that is a different situation.
He/she should confess.



_Are Dee- _I realize, on this topic, mine is not a popular opinion.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Shame -- Is an emotion focused towards the public: You don't want the people outside the marriage to know what you did because you will lose face and endure public scrutiny. 

Guilt -- Is an emotion focused towards yourself: What you did was stupid and selfish, and you hate that you became that person you told yourself you would never be. 

Remorse -- Is emotion focused towards your betrayed husband: You take the pain he is feeling into yourself and will do anything to heal his pain, even if that means accepting divorce. 

Right now you are probably feeling the first two emotions. You are probably a long way off from the third.


----------



## Gabriel

PurpleRoses said:


> Because I was lying to myself and everyone around me. I could never apologize for the number of lies I've told over the last number of months. I seriously lost track and I even started to believe them, even the biggest ones.


So what's your plan? Are you going to come clean? If so, when?

The guilt is already eating you alive, to the point your H is asking questions about your demeanor. It's really a matter of time here. He might even already suspect you.


----------



## Luckylucky

NicoleT said:


> I dont have the time to answer this now but I call bullsh!t. Maybe I didnt think of my husband when I did the deed but I sure as hell was not connected with the man either. Split from my husband I was, I still feel like I had sex outside myself. I did NOT enjoy it. Serves me right. Yes, horrific, selfish, self serving, but self righteous pompous and bitter isnt helping. Why do you people insist on chasing the waywards away? Calm the eff down and be kind.


I wasn’t a good girl in my past and was the OW twice and got high on drawing married men’s attention at work a lot. (When single). 

But I’m not proud and took the punishment and would even take a punch from any of those wives today still if they saw me. 

You seem really angry and justified. But the OP doesn’t, and there’s the difference. I think she’ll get a bit of anger, sure, but not as protracted as yours. You see, she’s not justifying anything at all.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

SunCMars said:


> This was my exact reason for PurpleRoses keeping silent on her affair.


People able to do that to the person they are married to don't deserve to be married. They do not deserve the love they receive because it's received via fraud.


----------



## ArthurGPym

As a guy who has been f*cked over twice by women in his life, I think everyone needs to step down off their high horses and hit the brakes on the vitriol towards Purple Roses. She needs instruction and direction, and I know there are many here (including myself) who get triggered by her posts. But if we don't help her, and she ends up getting chased off, where is she supposed to go? Loveshack? Marriage Builders? Reddit? Sites that are sure to give her every bit of bad advice one could dream of and make her situation ten times worse? 

Dang people, you're like a pack of hyenas fighting over a zebra leg.


----------



## LATERILUS79

SunCMars said:


> This was my exact reason for PurpleRoses keeping silent on her affair.
> 
> If she wants to stay married, she should never reveal what she did.
> 
> She should treat her husband like a king, now, and forever.....thereafter.
> Make it up to him by being a perfect wife and companion.
> 
> If she no longer loves him, just leave, cite incompatibility and her falling out of love.
> 
> 
> *Either way, why tell, why crush an innocent soul?*
> 
> 
> _Truth can be freeing.
> Truth, such as this, can suffocate the victim of it.
> Only those, also cruel, resort to such, this honesty._
> 
> If a cheater is caught, that is a different situation.
> He/she should confess.
> 
> 
> 
> _Are Dee- _I realize, on this topic, mine is not a popular opinion.


I'll add in my unpopular opinion to go with this one.

Right now, things are unfair. I'm a huge advocate of justice and punishment. There. I said it. I don't believe in reconciliation. A cheater that gets away with it and buries it until the day they die has a huge advantage. The husband SHOULD know so that he can even the score if he so chooses and get out of the sham of a marriage if that is what he wants. Let her know what it feels like to be crushed. My integrity and loyalty only goes as far as my wife stays loyal to me. Love is only unconditional for young children. Love with my wife is VERY conditional. I always find it funny when a cheater believes in unconditional love. LoL. What a joke.

Hiding affairs forever is the worst. Even when the wife becomes "The best wife EVAAAAAR!!!!". Go to SI. Look around here. These are the WORST, most tragic stories when they are found out. The absolute worst. It starts out like this: My wife and I were going through a rough patch. She got distant. It hurt me really bad (this would be during the cheating phase where the cheater says "No one gets hurt if no one knows" which of course is laughable. The cheating IS hurting the betrayed spouse. They just don't know what is causing the hurt). One day, it stopped. She became the best wife ever. Then one day, I found this.....

Those are the types of stories where The secret is so awful and because it's been hidden for so long, the now grown children disown the mother. She loses everything for trying to bury a secret. These are the types of stories where one or both people in the marriage commit suicide due to the emotional pain being unbearable. 

Yeah, hiding it forever is an unpopular opinion. I get your logic SunCMars, but I don't agree with it.


----------



## GoldenR

SunCMars said:


> If a cheater is caught, that is a different situation. He/she should confess.


That's hilarious! It's too late then, they've been caught! 

Husband walks in on wife doing her AP.

WW: Hubby, there's something we need to talk about. 

Smmfh...


----------



## uphillbattle

You ready to tell your husband yet?


----------



## sideways

"I convinced myself it was no big deal".

No matter how this plays out it would behoove you to get into IC. Think about how broken you'd have to be (morally, spiritually, and in your soul) to convince yourself that having sex with another man while married wasn't a big deal.

Putting EVERYTHING in you and in your world at risk and why? "Because you told yourself it wasn't a big deal"???

I hope you see how F'd up this is?

It's not that you thought about it but you followed through and did it.


----------



## Luckylucky

sideways said:


> "I convinced myself it was no big deal".
> 
> No matter how this plays out it would behoove you to get into IC. Think about how broken you'd have to be (morally, spiritually, and in your soul) to convince yourself that having sex with another man while married wasn't a big deal.
> 
> Putting EVERYTHING in you and in your world at risk and why? "Because you told yourself it wasn't a big deal"???
> 
> I hope you see how F'd up this is?
> 
> It's not that you thought about it but you followed through and did it.


It’s written in past tense. Probably a good insight into classic affair behaviour. But pay attention to how she is speaking of the now and the future. This statement was as honest as it gets.


----------



## PurpleRoses

I am going to tell him. I don't care if it isn't the easiest way. I am so sick of the lying and if I don't tell him my marriage becomes just another lie. I can't tell him when the kids are home, they are more than old enough to get what's going on. It's not fair to tell him while he's working. So I don't know when, I suppose there is no perfect time, but there is a wrong time.


----------



## Talker67

ElwoodPDowd said:


> Don't do it, keep quiet, forget it ever happened.


what is your purpose for asking forgiveness?
If this thing you did is weighing on your soul, and you want to come clean and ask forgiveness....but you know it will devastate him? Then you are acting very selfishly. you need to take this transgression to the grave with you, AND figure out why you did it so you will not be tempted again in the future.

asking forgiveness in that case would be taking the EASY way out.


----------



## Sufi22

PurpleRoses said:


> I am going to tell him. I don't care if it isn't the easiest way. I am so sick of the lying and if I don't tell him my marriage becomes just another lie. I can't tell him when the kids are home, they are more than old enough to get what's going on. It's not fair to tell him while he's working. So I don't know when, I suppose there is no perfect time, but there is a wrong time.


Is there anyone who can take care of the kids for an evening or perhaps overnight? Parents? Good friends? You should be able to organize some qiet time to confess.


----------



## ArthurGPym

LATERILUS79 said:


> I'll add in my unpopular opinion to go with this one.
> 
> Right now, things are unfair. I'm a huge advocate of justice and punishment. There. I said it. I don't believe in reconciliation. A cheater that gets away with it and buries it until the day they die has a huge advantage. The husband SHOULD know so that he can even the score if he so chooses and get out of the sham of a marriage if that is what he wants. Let her know what it feels like to be crushed. My integrity and loyalty only goes as far as my wife stays loyal to me. Love is only unconditional for young children. Love with my wife is VERY conditional. I always find it funny when a cheater believes in unconditional love. LoL. What a joke.


I agree with you on most points. I disagree on others. I myself do not believe that _all_ cheaters are irreparable and unworthy of a second chance. Granted, there are a portion who are true psychopaths/sociopaths who have no business being in committed relationships or marrying anyone. Those types are better off in prison, running multibillion dollar companies, or running for President of the USA. From the anecdotal information I have gleaned overt the years, these type of unredeemable cheaters are a minority. Purple Roses is not one of these. She admits she was stupid and selfish and that she has most likely ruined her marriage. Yeah, she is foggy over the reasons why she did what she did, but that fog will clear with time. Personally, I think most people cheat because they are bored. They are bored with their lives and they look for excitement and stimulus outside the day to day. I think she got bored at home, and I think to some extent she took her husband and marriage for granted. It is an easy trap to fall into if one does not do the work to keep the spark alive. Once she started her emotional affair, she got addicted to the attention and the rush it gave her. It was a real addiction to the feel-good brain chemicals that only a romantic affair can provide. Well, she's a junkie on methadone now, and she is still walking in a daze. That is why I think we need to instruct her rather than judge her.


----------



## VladDracul

Fly With Me said:


> 5th August - I gave him a blowjob and let him come in my mouth.


Damn, that makes me want to file for her husband and handle the case pro bono.


----------



## ArthurGPym

PurpleRoses said:


> I am going to tell him. I don't care if it isn't the easiest way. I am so sick of the lying and if I don't tell him my marriage becomes just another lie. I can't tell him when the kids are home, they are more than old enough to get what's going on. It's not fair to tell him while he's working. So I don't know when, I suppose there is no perfect time, but there is a wrong time.


Good for you, and good luck. Have someone keep the kids and set aside a whole evening. Have a PG-rated timeline ready, with the X-rated one stowed away if he asks for it. Offer to call up the OM with your husband present and tell him to no longer contact you. Your BH probably already suspects you have been up to something. Pack some bags and leave if he asks you to. Don't argue or fight with him. Take the licks and his hate. You earned them. Say "I'm so sorry" and mean it. Really mean it. DO NOT ask for forgiveness. You will have to earn his forgiveness. Then wait. Let him guide what happens in the aftermath. Expect to get no sleep for days.


----------



## GoldenR

Talker67 said:


> what is your purpose for asking forgiveness?
> If this thing you did is weighing on your soul, and you want to come clean and ask forgiveness....but you know it will devastate him? Then you are acting very selfishly. you need to take this transgression to the grave with you, AND figure out why you did it so you will not be tempted again in the future.
> 
> asking forgiveness in that case would be taking the EASY way out.


It's always a good thing to take someone's agency away from them, right?


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Talker67 said:


> what is your purpose for asking forgiveness?
> If this thing you did is weighing on your soul, and you want to come clean and ask forgiveness....but you know it will devastate him? Then you are acting very selfishly. you need to take this transgression to the grave with you, AND figure out why you did it so you will not be tempted again in the future.
> 
> asking forgiveness in that case would be taking the EASY way out.


I always try to picture the face of a person giving this kind of advice and the cartoon character of **** Dastardly always pops into my head if I'm in a whimsical mood, but Geoffrey Dahmer presents itself when I'm being more realistic.

A person who can live with that kind of betrayal as a secret has no business in a monogamous relationship, let alone marriage.


----------



## Bezuidenhout

You need to tell him so he can divorce you asap. You put him at risk of contracting an STI.


----------



## sideways

Luckylucky said:


> It’s written in past tense. Probably a good insight into classic affair behaviour. But pay attention to how she is speaking of the now and the future. This statement was as honest as it gets.


What she's saying now are just words. Are you implying she shouldn't get into IC because even if what she's saying will be eventually backed up by action she still needs to get into IC to figure out why she did all of this. 

Who cares if it's "written in past tense". Did she magically get cured?


----------



## sideways

PurpleRoses said:


> I am going to tell him. I don't care if it isn't the easiest way. I am so sick of the lying and if I don't tell him my marriage becomes just another lie. I can't tell him when the kids are home, they are more than old enough to get what's going on. It's not fair to tell him while he's working. So I don't know when, I suppose there is no perfect time, but there is a wrong time.


Good for you. It's a start. 

Will say a prayer for you. For strength and guidance.


----------



## Lostinthought61

PR...can i recommend you do it outside the house initially, what you don't want is for him to develop triggers...so if you tell him anywhere in the house that room will become a trigger for him....go for coffee and go to a park and talk in the car.


----------



## Al_Bundy

When you do confess, don't be surprised or offended if he starts asking about every other guy you've been friends with over the course of the marriage. He's going to feel like his marriage and to some extent his life has been built on a lie. Don't be upset if you find out later on he had did a dna test on the kids. From the moment he finds out, he will (and should) question everything you do or have done. Trust is like glass, easy to break and almost impossible to put the pieces back together.

Best of luck to you and your husband.


----------



## LATERILUS79

ArthurGPym said:


> I agree with you on most points. I disagree on others. I myself do not believe that _all_ cheaters are irreparable and unworthy of a second chance. Granted, there are a portion who are true psychopaths/sociopaths who have no business being in committed relationships or marrying anyone. Those types are better off in prison, running multibillion dollar companies, or running for President of the USA. From the anecdotal information I have gleaned overt the years, these type of unredeemable cheaters are a minority. Purple Roses is not one of these. She admits she was stupid and selfish and that she has most likely ruined her marriage. Yeah, she is foggy over the reasons why she did what she did, but that fog will clear with time. Personally, I think most people cheat because they are bored. They are bored with their lives and they look for excitement and stimulus outside the day to day. I think she got bored at home, and I think to some extent she took her husband and marriage for granted. It is an easy trap to fall into if one does not do the work to keep the spark alive. Once she started her emotional affair, she got addicted to the attention and the rush it gave her. It was a real addiction to the feel-good brain chemicals that only a romantic affair can provide. Well, she's a junkie on methadone now, and she is still walking in a daze. That is why I think we need to instruct her rather than judge her.


Arthur, you are a true gentleman and you definitely have a more forgiving heart than I could ever have.

I do believe she can earn a second chance…. With someone else. Not with her husband.

our society/culture seems to have gone down the road of “I get x amount of screw ups. I “deserve” a second chance.” I don’t personally subscribe to this thought process. Her husband gave her the opportunity to be his loving wife. She failed. She failed miserably. The best thing she can do is confess then move on. Become a better person. Treat everyone in her life with kindness and respect. Maybe one day find someone new to share herself with. As for her husband? He deserves to have someone in his life that loves and respects him the way he loves and respects his cheating wife.


----------



## re16

PurpleRoses said:


> I am going to tell him. I don't care if it isn't the easiest way. I am so sick of the lying and if I don't tell him my marriage becomes just another lie. I can't tell him when the kids are home, they are more than old enough to get what's going on. It's not fair to tell him while he's working. So I don't know when, I suppose there is no perfect time, but there is a wrong time.


I commend you for doing the right thing here.

Pick a Friday or Saturday and send the kids to Grandparents or Friends' houses overnight...

You might need to tell your parents what is going to happen if they are in the picture...


----------



## SunCMars

GoldenR said:


> That's hilarious! It's too late then, they've been caught!
> 
> Husband walks in on wife doing her AP.
> 
> WW: Hubby, there's something we need to talk about.
> 
> Smmfh...


Remember, there are cases where there is only smoke, no fire witnessed.

How does one process these cases.
I recommend sleuthing.
Getting irrefutable evidence.


When a cheater becomes nasty, withdrawn, withholding sex, then yes, once it is known that they are cheaters, they should be exposed and outright publicly shamed.

This is not the case, as it has been presented.


----------



## Openminded

Children tend to pick up on anything that feels different in their family so they will likely notice — and maybe react to — how the dynamic between the two of you has changed once you tell him. Depending on their ages, they may act out. Or be sad. Or need reassurance. Everyone is different so you won’t know until it happens. 

Your husband may choose to tell family and friends or he may not. A lot of it depends on whether he wants to reconcile. Family and friends aren’t as quick to forgive a cheater as a spouse who wants to reconcile is. If he does tell them, and you stay together, be prepared for the possibility that some may want nothing to do with you for a long time or maybe forever.

None of what you’re facing will be quick and easy (unless your husband is the exception and just wants to rug sweep the whole thing but don’t count on that). Even if you stay together it takes years to repair a marriage and sometimes that isn’t possible although the marriage may continue on. My suggestion is to have a backup plan in case it goes really bad immediately. It may not — but it certainly could. What you’re about to tell him is as bad as it gets and not everyone reacts well to that news. Prepare as much as you can.


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## QuietRiot

PurpleRoses said:


> I am going to tell him. I don't care if it isn't the easiest way. I am so sick of the lying and if I don't tell him my marriage becomes just another lie. I can't tell him when the kids are home, they are more than old enough to get what's going on. It's not fair to tell him while he's working. So I don't know when, I suppose there is no perfect time, but there is a wrong time.


Im so glad that you are continuing to post here. It shows you have some backbone, and you’re going to need it for the upcoming year of your life.

Redemption comes at the cost of confession and penance. You need to be able to answer every question he wants in detail, and never lie or minimize again. This will be required of you for YEARS as he may want to revisit the questions over and over. Be open and upfront and expect it. You will be at the receiving end of anger, for a long time, maybe forever. Prepare for that. You will be immediately untrustworthy in his eyes, and you may need to account for your every breath, move and minute spent outside and inside the home. Be ready to accept those consequences with full grace and offer more than he asks of you. “What do you need from me right now?” Will be your new mantra. If he asks for a divorce, give it to him with grace and dignity.

Get some counseling please. I do not believe any human being has to wear the badge of betrayer for life, anyone can redeem themselves with time and hard work, confession is the first step of doing that. Become a person that you can be proud of. That your children can be proud of. Do the hard work to figure out how you allowed yourself to do such a horrible thing to your husband, your family and to YOURSELF. Yes, you’ve destroyed yourself, you know this. Find a good counselor, don’t settle for someone who blows smoke up you’re butt, but calls you out on your behaviors and self deceptions and selfishness, and also helps you work through your shame and guilt. Those feelings are helpful tools to motivate you to become a better person, but do not help you in carrying them around for life. (This is why you must confess and make amends to the best of your ability).

I hope you will update us here as you progress through this process and use the insight to better yourself. Good luck.


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## Marc878

PurpleRoses said:


> Oh come on, when I was doing it, I figured he would never find out. My head wasn't in the right place and I thought I could just balance things and I minimized what I was doing. Day to day, I convinced myself it was no big deal.


This is pretty common wayward thought from what I’ve seen. However, the wayward is not on the receiving end. Infidelity never really goes away. Even if you can reconcile it will always be there to some extent.
For some it’s a dealbreaker.

Ive been at TAM a long time. From what I’ve seen seen 3 or 4 actually reconciled their marriage. Not just rugsweep and stay together. A lot struggle for years and end up parting ways.

Infidelity is the single most devastating thing you can do to a marriage. Easy to get into. Extremely hard to rectify after.


----------



## Marc878

PurpleRoses said:


> I am going to tell him. I don't care if it isn't the easiest way. I am so sick of the lying and if I don't tell him my marriage becomes just another lie. I can't tell him when the kids are home, they are more than old enough to get what's going on. It's not fair to tell him while he's working. So I don't know when, I suppose there is no perfect time, but there is a wrong time.


If you have any contact with your AP. There is a huge chance your affair will continue. Affairs are addictive. You get the addict around the source you get relapse.


----------



## Benbutton

PurpleRoses said:


> A few people know, but they would never say anything


The Hells Angels have an old saying relative to this statement, "three can keep a secret if two are dead". 
As to your question? Yes you should tell him and let him be upset, he wouldn't be hurt if he didn't care and it's a hell of a lot easier to swallow rather than finding out from someone else.


----------



## HappilyMarried1

PurpleRoses said:


> Because I was lying to myself and everyone around me. I could never apologize for the number of lies I've told over the last number of months. I seriously lost track and I even started to believe them, even the biggest ones.


@PurpleRoses I just wanted to let you know to be prepared now that you have said the above about all of the lies that you have told him the past several months that he could be more hurt and upset about that than the actual infidelity itself. Now grant it all me are different I just wanted you to know he will probably be hurt just as much by the lies and decet and that he didn't realize any of this.


----------



## ElOtro

LATERILUS79 said:


> I do believe she can earn a second chance…. With someone else. Not with her husband.


Agree


----------



## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> I am going to tell him. I don't care if it isn't the easiest way. I am so sick of the lying and if I don't tell him my marriage becomes just another lie. I can't tell him when the kids are home, they are more than old enough to get what's going on. It's not fair to tell him while he's working. So I don't know when, I suppose there is no perfect time, but there is a wrong time.


Be prepared for his questions. He’s going to feel a need to know everything. Not just the why but the how and when. Every date. Specific types of sex. How was it different. Was he bigger. Did you do anything with your AP that you don’t do with him. Did you use a condom. Why not? Can you understand what it feels like to him. Did you have sex with your AP and your husband on the same day.

I would also be prepared tospend a few nights away from home. He may need space. He WILL need space but different people express that need differently.

What is it worth to save your marriage? For starters you have to seriously consider quitting your job if your AP is still there. That would be a totally reasonable request from your husband.

And you’re going to have to give your husband the guy’s name.


----------



## rugswept

Lostinthought61 said:


> PR...can i recommend you do it outside the house initially, what you don't want is for him to develop triggers...so if you tell him anywhere in the house that room will become a trigger for him....go for coffee and go to a park and talk in the car.


Good Point. 
It's definitely the case that this will be one of those things that he'll always remember exactly where he was when "he found out". It sounds like he may suspect (I hope he does). If it's 100% a cold start, that could lead to a sense of having to faint within a minute or two of first hearing it and it starts to register cognitionally. It'll be the flash shock of his life. How could he possibly be prepared if he knows absolutely nothing.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Hope to god you didn't bang the OP in your family home.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

PurpleRoses said:


> Because I was lying to myself and everyone around me. I could never apologize for the number of lies I've told over the last number of months. I seriously lost track and I even started to believe them, even the biggest ones.


Purple roses, you've got a rough road ahead of you. The longer you put off confessing, the worst the fallout could be. The fact that this guy is someone your husband has met is going to exasperate his anger. If your marriage is to survive, it's going to take a long time to recover from this. Be prepared to do what you have to to help your husband. If that means giving him an amicable divorce, then that's what you will have to accept. Actions have consequences.


----------



## Divinely Favored

PurpleRoses said:


> I am going to tell him. I don't care if it isn't the easiest way. I am so sick of the lying and if I don't tell him my marriage becomes just another lie. I can't tell him when the kids are home, they are more than old enough to get what's going on. It's not fair to tell him while he's working. So I don't know when, I suppose there is no perfect time, but there is a wrong time.


Dont give him any guff or act hurt when he wants to DNA test the children to aswage the doubt that you have now laid that his children are really his. Dont be all butt hurt and play tge part of the wounded damsel in distress needing rescued.


----------



## Divinely Favored

PurpleRoses said:


> Oh come on, when I was doing it, I figured he would never find out. My head wasn't in the right place and I thought I could just balance things and I minimized what I was doing. Day to day, I convinced myself it was no big deal.


No big deal....

To me and probably a lot of men, the betrayal of a wife cheating would be akin to your hubby telling you he did not want kids. After menopause and being childless you find out he has a younger lover that he hapily has a couple of kids with and you thought he was working away alot. That is the level of betrayal you have done.


----------



## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> My marriage isn't a series of denials. We were having sex, there weren't any whips, leather or chains involved.
> 
> There are so many assumptions here. I was afraid to do it. I can't help that I did it now, but how can that be compared to confessing something like this? And I did end it ok, I felt horribly guilty and ended it. And you know what? It didn't help, I still feel very an overwhelming sense of guilt and shame. I love my husband and it breaks my heart that I did this to him. I am not a callous hateful person, I'm really not.


You have very little time to address this with your husband. Every minute that goes by is eating away at your future, your husband’s future, your kids. You have betrayed trust and denied them agency.

You’ve also tangentially identified a very strong issue… that you didn’t feel better when you stopped. You’ll rationalize maybe you won’tfeel better when you tell him. And many, many people continue their affairs because, well, why not, the damage is already done, at this point what’s one more time? Because your AP WANTS you and you’re thinking your husband won’t want anything to do with you once he knows.

Take immediate action. Don’t wait for a weekend or the right time. There won’t be one. And don’t ask for forgiveness!!!!! Please don’t!!! He won’t be ready for that for a long time, if ever. And forgiveness isn’t for you anyway. It’s a process he needs so HE can move on from it. People don’t seem to get that.


----------



## Trident

You could say something like "A friend of mine cheated on her husband and the guilt is eating at her, she's not sure if she should tell him or not. If you were in her husband's position, would you want to know and what would your response be if you found out?".

That might help you decide which way to go with this.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Trident said:


> You could say something like "A friend of mine cheated on her husband and the guilt is eating at her, she's not sure if she should tell him or not. If you were in her husband's position, would you want to know and what would your response be if you found out?".
> 
> That might help you decide which way to go with this.


If I heard that come out of my wife's mouth I would almost immediately think the "friend" was my wife. I would most certainly ask who we are talking about before answering those questions.


----------



## QuietRiot

Trident said:


> You could say something like "A friend of mine cheated on her husband and the guilt is eating at her, she's not sure if she should tell him or not. If you were in her husband's position, would you want to know and what would your response be if you found out?".
> 
> That might help you decide which way to go with this.


We all know exactly what we would do… right up until the moment it happens, then we know nothing. (Jon Snow)


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## GusPolinski

Trident said:


> You could say something like "A friend of mine cheated on her husband and the guilt is eating at her, she's not sure if she should tell him or not. If you were in her husband's position, would you want to know and what would your response be if you found out?".
> 
> That might help you decide which way to go with this.


Any rational adult male, having experienced a somewhat withdrawn, semi-weepy wife over the past few days/weeks, upon hearing that…

😳🤔🤨😠😡


----------



## DudeInProgress

Trident said:


> You could say something like "A friend of mine cheated on her husband and the guilt is eating at her, she's not sure if she should tell him or not. If you were in her husband's position, would you want to know and what would your response be if you found out?".
> 
> That might help you decide which way to go with this.


No, if he’s not a complete idiot, it would start his suspicions spinning big time. If they aren’t already.


----------



## LATERILUS79

Trident said:


> You could say something like "A friend of mine cheated on her husband and the guilt is eating at her, she's not sure if she should tell him or not. If you were in her husband's position, would you want to know and what would your response be if you found out?".
> 
> That might help you decide which way to go with this.


What?!

if my wife said that, I think my answer would be

“Get out. Now.”


----------



## Casual Observer

GoldenR said:


> If you do confess, end the confession with, "...and I'm leaving you". Give your BH a chance at finding a real wife.


I disagree. That denies her husband agency. She is in no position to “force” him to do the right thing. But she needs to allow the opportunity for him to choose his own future, make his own decisions, without coercion or undue influence. She may need to leave for a while but that’s different from “leaving” the marriage.


----------



## Trident

LATERILUS79 said:


> What?!
> 
> if my wife said that, I think my answer would be
> 
> “Get out. Now.”


Do you naturally make life changing decisions based on assumptions?


----------



## ABHale

PurpleRoses said:


> I never said I think it's ok. I'm not proud of what I've done. There is nothing that justifies it. I can't sleep and I have really bad anxiety. I would be horrified if it were reversed.


Then why in the hell did you let it happen?

You would be horrified if it happened to you. Then you go out and do it to your husband, the name your supposed to love.

I well, all the media has your back. Doesn’t matter that you have destroyed your marriage and husband. Even if you don’t tell, your guilt will eat away at your marriage.

Congrats 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉


----------



## Mr. Nail

2 questions re. @Trident suggestion of the friend ploy.
1) Is there actually anyone who has not seen this ploy used on a television program, and coincidentally has it ever worked?
2) What would be a good reaction from a man upon his wife's confession of physical infidelity? (asking for a friend)


----------



## LATERILUS79

Trident said:


> Do you naturally make life changing decisions based on assumptions?


No, but I would on a manipulation. That is what you are suggesting the OP to do. After all the lies she has told to this point, you are advising her to manipulate her husband to figure out what his reaction to cheating would be so that she can change tactics to gain the best possible outcome.


----------



## ABHale

PurpleRoses said:


> My marriage isn't a series of denials. We were having sex, there weren't any whips, leather or chains involved.
> 
> There are so many assumptions here. I was afraid to do it. I can't help that I did it now, but how can that be compared to confessing something like this? And I did end it ok, I felt horribly guilty and ended it. And you know what? It didn't help, I still feel very an overwhelming sense of guilt and shame. I love my husband and it breaks my heart that I did this to him. I am not a callous hateful person, I'm really not.


You see we have another wayward wife here that lied her ass off to us here recently. So we are taking what you say with a grain of salt.

What exactly did you do? If you can be honest with us.


----------



## ABHale

PurpleRoses said:


> He was a friend, but nothing more than that, it wasn't a plan to hook up. I started going to work first and I told him that he could ask for permission, not a lot of people know that you can. I wasn't trying to get a date or anything. There has been a lot of isolation this year and I wanted to be a bit social. We are in our early 40s, he's a bit younger but not a lot. We were friends before as in that he had been over for a few Christmas season parties we have for our friends every year. I didn't really see him outside of work other than that.


So you started have sex with a guy that your husband knows. That must have been a great joke between the two of you.


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## jsmart

Oh man. Your husband met and hung out socially with the OM? That is F’d up. He will think you both had a good laugh at his expense. That is going to be a real sore spot. 

Also someone asked a very important question, Did you bring OM into your house to F? I hope not because having the house desecrated is a major hurdle.


----------



## GoldenR

APs always make fun of and belittle their SO to each other. That's nothing new. 

"He's clueless"

"She trusts me completely...HA!"

"He said you tasted good...Lol!"

The verbal disrespect goes hand-in-hand with the cheating. I mean...they cheated...that's the kind of people they are.


----------



## VladDracul

jsmart said:


> Oh man. Your husband met and hung out socially with the OM? That is F’d up. He will think you both had a good laugh at his expense.


That's the way these things go down a lot of the time. I agree with SunCMars that this chick need to bear her own cross rather than confess and relieve her guilt over the back of her husband.


----------



## VladDracul

GoldenR said:


> APs always make fun of and belittle their SO to each other. That's nothing new.


And to others. Like I said earlier, I'd bet good money this old boy done told at least two folks how he's banging the MILF that works in XYZ department.


----------



## QuietRiot

VladDracul said:


> That's the way these things go down a lot of the time. I agree with SunCMars that this chick need to bear her own cross rather than confess and relieve her guilt over the back of her husband.


Thats not cool for the husband though. He has the right to know.


----------



## Willnotbill

@PurpleRoses I think by now you know you did bad thing and have been beaten up pretty good here. I've seen a lot good info given to you here so I hope you take it. I've read through a lot of this thread and wanted to comment on something.

It looks like you are giving the "trickle truth" to nameless, faceless people you don't know on the internet at this site. It took you several posts at the beginning to even admit you had a PA. Later someone asks you if your affair was a one time fling or an ongoing affair. Your answer was "more than once."

My suggestion is if you want a chance with your husband you don't do this to him. You need to be completely honest with him and answer any and all of his questions without hesitation. If he asks you "Was this a one time fling or a long time affair" you answer should be along the lines of I had sex with him X times. If you don't then he will always be wondering.

Maybe the worst thing for your husband is the movie he makes in his mind. You will be able to help him with that if you tell him the complete truth and he knows it. If you are evasive or hesitant he will think you are hiding something or not telling the truth.

If you and your husband are able to stay together be prepared for the long haul. He might be happy one day and the next he is triggered by something and it will hit him like a freight train. He might be asking you questions for months and maybe years. Don't expect to heal in a few weeks because its not likely to happen. Remember that your husband would be in less pain if you would have cut his arm off.

My first wife cheated on me 30 years ago and its a pain I'll never forget. Our marriage couldn't survive it and I didn't even want to try with someone who do that to me. Maybe your husband will be different.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Willnotbill said:


> Maybe your husband will be different.


Maybe his secret hope was his wife would start banging coworkers and now it has come true!

Seems a bit unlikely though…


----------



## VladDracul

QuietRiot said:


> Thats not cool for the husband though. He has the right to know.


He does have a right to know. However, I'm not sure he's not better off not knowing his old lady flirted with and banged an acquaintance from the first chance she had to be alone with him. Y'all already know , "it was never my intention" is a total crock of shyt." Too much interaction during the alone time at the office before he slipped it in, repeatedly. A sure fire way for a man to tell if a woman is interested in getting up close and personal is when she finds a way to be near him. Ain't no damn coincidence these two just happen to show up on the same days. I've got Rolex I want to sell for $100 to anyone who believes she went to his apartment not knowing she was going to end up riding him like a Texas roadhouse mechanical bull.
This chick needs more practice before telling her husband, which I strongly recommend she keep her mouth shut.


----------



## Casual Observer

@PurpleRoses hasn’t fled the scene. Her stats show she’s been here pretty frequently through the day. Probably safe to assume she’s in a bit of shock right now as everything said has confirmed her worst fears.


----------



## LATERILUS79

VladDracul said:


> He does have a right to know. However, I'm not sure he's not better off not knowing his old lady flirted with and banged an acquaintance from the first chance she had to be alone with him. Y'all already know , "it was never my intention" is a total crock of shyt." Too much interaction during the alone time at the office before he slipped it in, repeatedly. A sure fire way for a man to tell if a woman is interested in getting up close and personal is when she finds a way to be near him. Ain't no damn coincidence these two just happen to show up on the same days. I've got Rolex I want to sell for $100 to anyone who believes she went to his apartment not knowing she was going to end up riding him like a Texas roadhouse mechanical bull.
> This chick needs more practice before telling her husband, which I strongly recommend she keep her mouth shut.


Honestly Vlad, to not know I was in a one-sided open relationship? How unbelievably humiliating. Also, not knowing my spouse could be exposing me to STDs?

no. He needs to know now. Even if it destroys him, he’s better off knowing that his wife broke the contract and he can go sleep with whomever he wants, he can decide to stay with her, he can decide not to sleep with her so he doesn’t get whatever bug she now has…. Options, Vlad. The man deserves options no matter how bad this hurts him.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Good lord, if he wants to get a DNA test on our children he can go right ahead, he won't be disappointed, they're both his. 

Also, I don't know what goes on between other people but we never talked about my husband. We certainly never mocked him, and I don't find it amusing.


----------



## RebuildingMe

PurpleRoses said:


> Good lord, if he wants to get a DNA test on our children he can go right ahead, he won't be disappointed, they're both his.
> 
> Also, I don't know what goes on between other people but we never talked about my husband. We certainly never mocked him, and I don't find it amusing.


You’re way too defensive to tell your husband right now. You need humility. This is going to blow up, big time when you act this defensive when speaking to him.


----------



## GoldenR

PurpleRoses said:


> We certainly never mocked him, and I don't find it amusing.


I find it very ironic that you take offense to this. Like THAT'S off-limits, bc you have boundaries? Wtf?


----------



## Trident

PurpleRoses said:


> Also, I don't know what goes on between other people but we never talked about my husband. We certainly never mocked him, and I don't find it amusing.


Realize that you’re in the midst of a pack of angry judgemental wolves, most or all of whom are in problem filled relationships and they’re feeding off the opportunity to vent their anger and frustration at you. Not really seeing anything worthwhile for you here, now you’re at the point where all you can do is defend yourself against wild accusations and assumptions many of which are completely baseless.


----------



## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> Good lord, if he wants to get a DNA test on our children he can go right ahead, he won't be disappointed, they're both his.
> 
> Also, I don't know what goes on between other people but we never talked about my husband. We certainly never mocked him, and I don't find it amusing.


You need to step back a bit and look at this from your husband’s perspective. Which would he take greater offense to-
A You’ve trash-talked your husband around the water cooler or
B You’ve “respectfully” had sex with another man, keeping discussion of your husband out of it.

Your only avenue to save your marriage & family involves total contrition and humility. A recognition that whatever your husband may offer you, in terms of a chance to save the marriage and family, it’s more than anyone in your situation deserves.


----------



## Casual Observer

Trident said:


> Realize that you’re in the midst of a pack of angry judgemental wolves, most or all of whom are in problem filled relationships and they’re feeding off the opportunity to vent their anger and frustration at you. Not really seeing anything worthwhile for you here, now you’re at the point where all you can do is defend yourself against wild accusations and assumptions many of which are completely baseless.


Only partially true. Yes there are angry judgemental wolves. But they accurately show @PurpleRoses how her husband is going to feel. She needs to know that. She needs to be broken of her pride and simply ask, what can I do.

That’s worthwhile _if_ she believes there’s something to save and if she can reach bottom. Right now it feels like she’s heading the wrong direction.


----------



## LATERILUS79

PurpleRoses said:


> Good lord, if he wants to get a DNA test on our children he can go right ahead, he won't be disappointed, they're both his.


WOW...... so says the confirmed liar. 

I hope you aren't this flippant when you speak with your husband.

Out of curiosity, why do you think he should believe a word you say? Why do you think he should automatically believe that your children are his?


----------



## RebuildingMe

Trident said:


> Realize that you’re in the midst of a pack of angry judgemental wolves, most or all of whom are in problem filled relationships and they’re feeding off the opportunity to vent their anger and frustration at you. Not really seeing anything worthwhile for you here, now you’re at the point where all you can do is defend yourself against wild accusations and assumptions many of which are completely baseless.


Complete nonsense. You may give her a pass and treat OP with kid gloves, but I’m pretty sure her husband won’t.


----------



## Sufi22

Casual Observer said:


> Only partially true. Yes there are angry judgemental wolves. But they accurately show @PurpleRoses how her husband is going to feel. She needs to know that. She needs to be broken of her pride and simply ask, what can I do.
> 
> That’s worthwhile _if_ she believes there’s something to save and if she can reach bottom. Right now it feels like she’s heading the wrong direction.


PR, you may want to visit some other forums. There is plenty of good here mixed with the sheer anger but Surviving infidelity.com has a wayward section where in addition to the feedback you see here you can also get feedback from other waywards in various stages of reconciliation.


----------



## VladDracul

Trident said:


> You could say something like "A friend of mine cheated on her husband and the guilt is eating at her, she's not sure if she should tell him or not. If you were in her husband's position, would you want to know and what would your response be if you found out?".
> 
> That might help you decide which way to go with this.


Out of the stupidest damn recommendations I've heard, this takes the cake. You have got to entertain now us with your recommened transition from " And what would your response be if you found out?" to "Actual honey it was me f-ing another guy."


----------



## Davit Bek

I see a lot of vitriol and anger towards purpleroses and while I completely understand where it comes from, and much of it is well deserved, let's please focus on guiding her in navigating this horrific situation so as to reduce the damage to her family and specially her children. While I personally cannot forgive and remain married to someone who has cheated, I don't think it is completely impossible. It is extremely rare from what I know but still possible. Lastly, the only way for her to move forward is complete humility, and honesty with her husband. I hope for his own sake, he doesn't ask about the details. Regardless, one cannot rebuild a marriage (if that's still possible) with half truths, and deceiving tactics. If it ever comes to light that she has been deceptive even in her apology and coming forward, you can kiss any reconciliation goodbye. I'm routing for this family and wish them the best (specifically, wish the husband and the children the best).


----------



## Luckylucky

I wish them the best too. It’s done now, let’s hope they all work together, the work can be done. Be strong OP, you have an immense opportunity to change and be a good mother to your kids. Learn and grow. We all need to fail sometimes in the worst way possible. But don’t fail your family now.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

PurpleRoses said:


> Good lord, if he wants to get a DNA test on our children he can go right ahead, he won't be disappointed, they're both his.
> 
> Also, I don't know what goes on between other people but we never talked about my husband. We certainly never mocked him, and I don't find it amusing.


PR, you need to realize that his trust in you will be shattered and the damage will also be retroactive. He's not just going to question your fidelity during the affair. He is going to question it from day one.


----------



## Davit Bek

QuietRiot said:


> Im so glad that you are continuing to post here. It shows you have some backbone, and you’re going to need it for the upcoming year of your life.
> 
> Redemption comes at the cost of confession and penance. You need to be able to answer every question he wants in detail, and never lie or minimize again. This will be required of you for YEARS as he may want to revisit the questions over and over. Be open and upfront and expect it. You will be at the receiving end of anger, for a long time, maybe forever. Prepare for that. You will be immediately untrustworthy in his eyes, and you may need to account for your every breath, move and minute spent outside and inside the home. Be ready to accept those consequences with full grace and offer more than he asks of you. “What do you need from me right now?” Will be your new mantra. If he asks for a divorce, give it to him with grace and dignity.
> 
> Get some counseling please. I do not believe any human being has to wear the badge of betrayer for life, anyone can redeem themselves with time and hard work, confession is the first step of doing that. Become a person that you can be proud of. That your children can be proud of. Do the hard work to figure out how you allowed yourself to do such a horrible thing to your husband, your family and to YOURSELF. Yes, you’ve destroyed yourself, you know this. Find a good counselor, don’t settle for someone who blows smoke up you’re butt, but calls you out on your behaviors and self deceptions and selfishness, and also helps you work through your shame and guilt. Those feelings are helpful tools to motivate you to become a better person, but do not help you in carrying them around for life. (This is why you must confess and make amends to the best of your ability).
> 
> I hope you will update us here as you progress through this process and use the insight to better yourself. Good luck.


Amazing advice. Hope she takes this one and doesn't listen to the lunatics who suggest the way to go forward is more deception and manipulation.


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## Openminded

The most important thing is to tell the whole truth. Lying — including trickle-truthing — will make the problem much worse. He may ask you the same questions several different ways over time. He’s looking to see how truthful you are. That could determine whether he gives you a second chance or not so don’t be tempted to shade the truth.


----------



## colingrant

Just a couple thoughts Purple;

*DO'S *

- Consider going to an IC and identifying your "core" issues that led to your affair. A really good counselor can unearth stuff you didn't even know existed. The reason for this is it may provide you with some answers to give your husband when he asks "why". Being able to respond with something other than "I don't know" may not make him feel better, but it might not deepen his frustration. Post infidelity is less about winning and more about surviving. Surviving the day, week, month, marriage and life overall.

- If you can find an infidelity specialist as a marriage counselor (if your husband is open to it) AFTER YOU HAVE IDENTIFIED YOUR WHY'S with an Independent Counselor that would be great. Not all counselors are generalists. IC first and after many sessions, THEN you move forward with a marriage counselor if your husband wishes to stay married.

Specifically, the IC will initially focus on the moment you began looking forward to meeting your AP and agreed to approach and cross boundaries. This didn't just happen. It was presented and agreed to by you. All of this stuff can be tied to something if you are committed to finding it. As you already know, DO NOT LOOK TO FIND IT IN YOUR HUSBAND. And if the counselor starts in that direction, I strongly recommend you walk out of the office IMMEDIATELY.

I think it should be said that common sense and wisdom are frequently out dueled by lust and romantic emotions. You knew better, you thought about it, you lost the battle to lust. Just a simple truth, but with very, very complex underlying emotional triggers underneath.

- You might want to consider "confessing" in the office of your therapist and allow them to help mediate or bring structure to the most emotional talk you'll have in your life. This can also be a pastor or someone who has the capacity, knowledge and space to host you. Or it can be in your home with your pastor present.

- Of course give great consideration to your post confession. He may want to leave the house. Think about arranging the kids to be gone a few days. Not that they have to be away for that period, but just in case he doesn't want to leave and doesn't want you to neither but not the kids to be present in such a somber household. He may want the kids around. Who knows to provide balance and love.

- Be prepared to forego your despair and focus on his. Your tone is not negative, it's just full of "I feel terrible". I understand that but you'll have to subordinate your personal despair and focus purely on his.

- Consider identifying an IC for him. Someone that specializes in trauma. Very important as he may not have his cognitive faculties working well, as they will be solely focused on how he missed this whole thing, what happens to his future and what happens with his wife and family. His world will be upside down and he will not be able to be emotionally stable for sometime perhaps. I'm not an expert, but 2-5 years is the recovery period.

- I know someone earlier mentioned the timeline. Think about having a general one and a detailed one. You can start with the general one and wait to see if he asks for more detail and then deliver the detailed one. Just a thought.

- Be sincere and shower with affection and love if he allows it. Don't do it for purposes of feeling better and reconciling but for purposes of simply making him feel better. Crying and emotion doesn't demonstrate remorse. Genuine remorse demonstrates remorse.

- Be prepared to provide him with the name and personal information of your AP. DO NOT HESITATE. If you do so, it'll appear as if you're protecting him and are continuing to choose your AP over your husband. This is further indignity and humiliation.

- Be prepared to quit your job if you want to keep your marriage.

- Be prepared to respond with any reasonable request of your husband if you want to keep your marriage.

- Be prepared to live a life of constant distrust of you and scrutiny. In fact do everything you can to make him feel safe.

- Tell him what you told your AP. if he asks. This goes for "I love you", "you were amazing in bed" etc. If asked, tell.

- Be prepared to take a lie detector test to assuage his concerns about previous infidelities.

*DONT'S*

- Don't lie

- Don't withhold and omit info

- SEX - Don't lie about the sex. He will ask how many times, where, when, why and how. He will eventually ask you if you orgasmed and used protection. He will ask every question in the world you wish he wouldn't. He will think, picture,, dream and replay all of your sexual encounters 24/7 and when he runs out of questions he will ask one's he's already asked you. He will think of them when sitting across the dinner table from you. When you are preparing for work he will think of you and AP. It's a new world for both of you.

What I would do (IF HE ALLOWS THIS) is sit DIRECTLY across from him, and take both hands in your hands if possible and answer him looking him in the eye when starting to respond to them. * I would not keep *my eyes LOCKED ON HIM because if it were me I would think my wife would be taking pleasure at humiliating me while answering me with constant eye contact, so I would take his hands in yours and keep them tight and drop my head submissively until the next question is asked. FOR ME, this would convey forthrightness, courage, submissiveness and care.

Don't diminish your role in the affair. Women have a tendency to being played or victimized by a player or manipulator. They say this because it works and some men are more comfortable believing there woman was manipulated and not straight up taken. Best to be truthful here and that goes with how it ended.

*BE PROACTIVE IN .......*

- Providing him what he may want. How will you know? Read here and the betrayed husbands will tell you.

- Offering his ability to monitor, pull records or restore deleted records.

*UNDERSTANDING YOUR HUSBAND'S REACTION'S*

- Devastated, humiliated, emasculated and embarrassed for starters.

- Do not expect him to believe you. If you think about, it takes hundreds or thousands of lies and omissions to have a multi-month affair. To assume because you are confessing that all of a sudden you're telling the truth is arrogant and disrespectful.

- He will never get past the fact that you consensually gave your body, mind and soul to another man. Things change after this revelation in a man. Forever. That doesn't mean you can't or won't reconcile. It's just forever changed and that specialness will absolutely, positively never be the same. I can say this with nearly 100% full confidence. So reconciliation of it happens will occur *understanding* the marriage will be 50%, 75%, 85% of the specialness it had previously.

Specialness doesn't mean it was a great or perfect marriage. It means that YOU were very, very special to him. There's your wife and then there's the rest of the world. Just like your kids. They may not be the best kids, students or whatever, but they ARE YOUR KIDS, and nothing can change that. .................except when it comes to adults, infidelity does change it. He may love you the same, but he will not see you the same.

- He will be traumatized so he'll need to be seen by a professional ASAP after being emotionally injured. It's like being in physical car accident where emergency services are required, followed by hospitalization, surgery perhaps, stability and therapy. Your husband will need to professionals to address his emotional injury. What's different here is that it's emotional/mental/psychological injury that was imparted upon him by his wife and best friend. This will be very, very, very hard and the part he will not be able to grasp for some time.

- He may *consider* suicide. I was hesitant to say this but it must be said. Not to hurt you but prepare you. Most don't, but the fact that consideration or thought is given towards it should give you some idea of the level of pain he is experiencing. Just know this.

Lastly, my comments are ones from personal experience and reading of others. I was cheated on by two fiancés'. DO NOT feel sorry for me though, as I would not be married to my current wife had it not happened. Nonetheless, no pain equates to betrayed pain. It's peerless with devastation similar to the casualties of a drug addict in one's family. Your husband will never be the same. It's a marriage and life changing incident with multigenerational impact.


----------



## GoldenR

Sufi22 said:


> PR, you may want to visit some other forums. There is plenty of good here mixed with the sheer anger but Surviving infidelity.com has a wayward section where in addition to the feedback you see here you can also get feedback from other waywards in various stages of reconciliation.


Unfortunately, the Wayward forum there is as close to dead as its ever been. Many of the old-timer, respected FWSes seem to have disappeared.


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## GoldenR

PR - I'll back off. You want help, I'll do my best. 

As far as your question goes...sure, you can ask, but don't expect it for quite a while. 

Now why don't you please stop trickle-storying us and tell us everything. We can better navigate how to help you that way, bc you HAVE to tell your BH everything.


----------



## DudeInProgress

Trident said:


> Realize that you’re in the midst of a pack of angry judgemental wolves, most or all of whom are in problem filled relationships and they’re feeding off the opportunity to vent their anger and frustration at you. Not really seeing anything worthwhile for you here, now you’re at the point where all you can do is defend yourself against wild accusations and assumptions many of which are completely baseless.


Actually, OP has received a lot of very good guidance and perspective here (I guess you missed those parts), despite some barbs and anger from a few folks. Sure, some were over the top, but most offered valuable insights.

And if she can’t navigate some anger from strangers on the internet, how the hell is she going to face the impending onslaught from her husband? I’d suggest it’s good practice.

And overall I think she’s handled herself fairly well. I don’t think she needs a white knight savior to tell her to ignore all those mean people telling her uncomfortable things.


----------



## Fly With Me

PurpleRoses said:


> I am going to tell him. I don't care if it isn't the easiest way. I am so sick of the lying and if I don't tell him my marriage becomes just another lie. I can't tell him when the kids are home, they are more than old enough to get what's going on. It's not fair to tell him while he's working. So I don't know when, I suppose there is no perfect time, but there is a wrong time.


Hey Purple Roses

I'm glad you're going to tell him that takes real guts and true courage. 

There has been some advice about not telling him because you are just telling him to make yourself feel better. I would work through that if I were you because it's important when you tell him that you are telling him for HIM.

That you get to a place of love (no matter how sick you feel about it inside) where you want to give him options and choices and honesty and the opportunity for the kind of relationship with you, or someone else, that he deserves.

That you are not expecting anything from him (like forgiveness and reconciliation) because he will feel that and want to give it to you, but be unable to, especially initially and it will make it harder for him. 

If you cry and say how sorry you are from a place of telling him for YOU it might work. He might stay with you but it will feel awful for him and honestly it won't feel good for you either, you will lose respect for him. You need to lay down all manipulation and control and get into a place where you genuinely want what's best for him. Which WILL be what's best for you. Depending on the kind of person he is the best thing for him might be to separate and divorce and because you love him you need to get to a place where you want that for him IF that's what's best for him.

You don't know at this point what is best for him. You will need to really listen to him over the next months and years. Get to know him and get to know yourself.

And you will have to keep bringing yourself back to that place of love because after a few days, weeks, months of eating humble pie you will get tired of it and be tempted to jack it all in and it will be at the exact moment you think it's not working that you will be closest to regaining his trust. So keep going then!!! And if and when you do regain his trust you STILL need to keep going!!

And learn to meet your own needs for yourself in this time because you can't expect your husband to meet those needs at the moment and you can't go back to the other man. It will be really tough but it will also be so good. You will essentially be learning to love yourself and that is such a beautiful, valuable thing to do.

You can learn all the right things to say and do in here. This thread is a goldmine of advice that if you follow it has the absolute best chance of saving your marriage.

Your last few posts have been more defensive than at the start. I get that. I am a naturally very defensive person too. It's understandable. But it's not what's needed here.

You need to listen to understand, truly understand, whether it's people here or your husband. You need to listen to _understand _them better NOT to respond.

You need to speak to be understood - truly _understood _- not to manipulate, or control, or explain or justify or minimise or defend. 

And being understood looks like vulnerability. And it is excruciatingly hard to be vulnerable (ask me how I know!)

It feels counter intuitive but your best chance is to really check in with yourself moment by moment. Before you reply, here and to him, try to speak the most truthful, honest thing you can even if it makes you "look bad". Radical honesty and humility are your best chance of saving your marriage or any future relationship after this marriage.

Use this forum as practice. Or your counselling sessions. Or a true friend. LEARN to do it here (cause none of us really know how to do it .) We all have inbuilt BS detectors for other people's BS but we can't always detect our own. Take advantage of the 20 or 30 BS detectors you have in this thread lol! 

Use us to discover just how dishonest you are (like everybody is) and become more honest. Not just for your husband but for you!!! So you have the best chance of having the life and relationships you long for.

You have discovered you're a human. You do beautiful good things and you do ugly, awful things. Own it all. And change.


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## Rus47

RebuildingMe said:


> You’re way too defensive to tell your husband right now. You need humility. This is going to blow up, big time when you act this defensive when speaking to him.


Her husband will eventually figure out what was/is going on, his gut is already telling him something isn't right. Or someone who knows ( but would never tell lol) will tell him. Or she will visit "The Apartment" some more because she is lonely. So for the benefit of her own mental health sooner is better humble or no. It blows up no matter what. Now or later.

The OP is defensive because she thinks she is somehow different from the norm wayward. Maybe in specific details she is, like she and he boyfriend weren't laughing about how stupid her husband was to not know what they were up to. Or how she gave the guy a BJ and then go home and kissed her husband. It is rather like someone who filches money from the till where they work, they don't believe they have anything in common with a burglar. She objects to having the kids DNA tested, not realizing that cheaters often go on for years doing their boyfriend and spouse at the same time, so the fatherhood of all of the kids are unknown. There is a popular wayward on here who was 100% certain she was impregnated by her boyfriend because she had been doing him the most. It turned out after confession that hubby was the baby daddy.

OP, a lot of the posters on here have been through or read abour every possible wayward behavior, and often refer to the "Cheater's Handbook" because there are many traits in common. Maybe you didn't do every single thing in that handbook but you did a lot of them. BTW, being defensive is one of the common traits.


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## Luckylucky

Have you thought about the possibility that he already knows?


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## Rus47

Luckylucky said:


> Have you thought about the possibility that he already knows?


I would think if he knew, she would have seen changed behavior of her husband that would tip her off. But, who knows? There was a thread on here awhile ago posted by a wayward addicted to a man who told her straight up he only wanted her for sex. After pages of posts, she finally tells her husband and his reaction is like "so what else is new?"


----------



## VladDracul

Davit Bek said:


> I see a lot of vitriol and anger towards purpleroses and while I completely understand where it comes from, and much of it is well deserved, let's please focus on guiding her in navigating this horrific situation so as to reduce the damage to her family and specially her children.


We are guiding her; primarily not to go to her husband with her cockinbull story that she never knew or suspected where this thing was going as it developed and more or less "woke up" after the fact and realized what she had done. The foundation of a confession of this type is taking full responsibility for your participation and role from start to finish; not some crap about. "Its 100% my fault but I was oblivious to what was happening until after I woke up and he was on top of me". The phase, "The devil made me do it" ain't going to fly with her husband.


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## Benbutton

VladDracul said:


> Out of the stupidest damn recommendations I've heard, this takes the cake. You have got to entertain now us with your recommened transition from " And what would your response be if you found out?" to "Actual honey it was me f-ing another guy."


Haha!! Stole my thunder. The old tried and true "asking for a friend" routine 😆 🤣. Ultimate fail.


----------



## MattMatt

@PurpleRoses tell him what he wants to know.


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## Divinely Favored

PurpleRoses said:


> Good lord, if he wants to get a DNA test on our children he can go right ahead, he won't be disappointed, they're both his.
> 
> Also, I don't know what goes on between other people but we never talked about my husband. We certainly never mocked him, and I don't find it amusing.


But the fact is what you did will make him question if his children are even his. You are the one person who he trusted to be true and trust worthy. His world will be turned upside down and the one thing he knew above all else will be proven to be false...his whole marriage will be a question because what he believed in you was false. If you were not true, if he was soo wrong about you, how could he believe anything he believed in his life. Woman does not have that fear or wondering if the children they love is really theirs. They carried them.


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## Zedd

PurpleRoses said:


> Good lord, if he wants to get a DNA test on our children he can go right ahead, he won't be disappointed, they're both his.
> 
> Also, I don't know what goes on between other people but we never talked about my husband. We certainly never mocked him, and I don't find it amusing.


Unlike most, I don't see this as a dismissive response or devensive. His mind will be all over the place, so take stuff like this, and all of the horrible things people are telling you, through their own hurt, and know they are options for what you might encounter.

Your only real path out of this is to do what is best for him, whenever you decide to let him know. Answer everything he asks as best you can. Your ultimate goal should be to help him, even if it's to help him realize he needs to divorce you because he'll never move past it. You have kids, you'll always be a family. Your goal is to do your best to try and repair that family unit, not necessarily your marriage, if that makes sense. If he ever asks you what you want to do, it should immediately be, "whatever it takes to help you heal."


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## SRCSRC

I might have missed this fact, but does your AP have a wife or steady girlfriend? If so, that person must also be told in order for you to start to make amends. Your AP is a real dog for having an affair with a married woman. No way should he be allowed to skate free. He will do it to other couples. He needs to learn a harsh lesson. Also, if your husband does not move for an immediate divorce you must quit your job. You simply cannot have the possibility of running into the AP ever again. If you still desire to maintain some sort of contact, you are still in the affair. Don’t think for a second that you can still be in the AP’s presence without causing additional harm. He may not work in your department but there is a strong likelihood your paths will cross again. It is a show of good faith that you find another job. Things will never be the same again. But if you desire to help your husband heal, you must leave your job.


----------



## Diana7

Davit Bek said:


> I see a lot of vitriol and anger towards purpleroses and while I completely understand where it comes from, and much of it is well deserved, let's please focus on guiding her in navigating this horrific situation so as to reduce the damage to her family and specially her children. While I personally cannot forgive and remain married to someone who has cheated, I don't think it is completely impossible. It is extremely rare from what I know but still possible. Lastly, the only way for her to move forward is complete humility, and honesty with her husband. I hope for his own sake, he doesn't ask about the details. Regardless, one cannot rebuild a marriage (if that's still possible) with half truths, and deceiving tactics. If it ever comes to light that she has been deceptive even in her apology and coming forward, you can kiss any reconciliation goodbye. I'm routing for this family and wish them the best (specifically, wish the husband and the children the best).


True but as yet she hasn't put her big girls panties on and told him.
I hope she does as it's the only decent thing to do.
I fear she won't, maybe he will find out another way which would be far worse for him.


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## Rus47

SRCSRC said:


> *I might have missed this fact, but does your AP have a wife or steady girlfriend?* If so, that person must also be told in order for you to start to make amends. Your AP is a real dog for having an affair with a married woman. No way should he be allowed to skate free. He will do it to other couples. He needs to learn a harsh lesson. Also, if your husband does not move for an immediate divorce you must quit your job. You simply cannot have the possibility of


She had been asked this multiple times but has not answered that (or lot of other questions). That is ok, when and if she confesses to Hubby it will be question and answer time with him for months and years. And she would be best served by answering not evading


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## Rob_1

I would keep it as a secret forever. 

But, if you're are going to tell your husband due to your guilt over it, you must understand the ramifications of all it.
1. Your mariage, that is if he stays will never be the same. No matter how good you guys rebound, it still will always be in the back of his head while he's still alive.
2. He might dump you on the spot. This is dependent on what type of guy he is. If not, expect a long period of a hellish environment in your household. 
3. you might have a long period of fights and recriminations over it, then at the end, the marriage will be over.
4. he might just get so pissed that it will lead him to have a revenge affair himself, which might kill the marriage anyway.
I would want to know, nonetheless if my partner cheated on me. it would be the end of my marriage, but at least I would know.

Good luck.


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## GoldenR

For the life of me, I will never understand advising waywards to take their unknowing BS's agency away from them. 

It's mind-boggling to me.


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## Rus47

My money is on PR not confessing. She has a bunch of experts advising her to stay quiet, and those telling her to confess detail the misery that will result. My money is also on her revisiting "The Apartmentl" until her husband finds out by other means


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## Dictum Veritas

Rob_1 said:


> I would keep it as a secret forever.


It takes a special kind of selfishness, bordering on or at least displaying a level of psychopathy to infantilize your partner and deprive them of the agency to make an informed discussion about their own fate and future.



Rob_1 said:


> But, if you're are going to tell your husband due to your guilt over it, you must understand the ramifications of all it.


Whether telling because of guilt or actually human decency, telling him will spare him years of thinking that his life was spent built on a lie if he invariably finds out the truth years from now. Even if he never finds out, every I love you from him would be fraudulantly begotten.



Rob_1 said:


> 1. Your mariage, that is if he stays will never be the same. No matter how good you guys rebound, it still will always be in the back of his head while he's still alive.


Unfortunately that is the wages of sin, adultery is the gift that keeps on giving. It is better to face the recriminations of the truth than the ill gotten wages of a lie.



Rob_1 said:


> 2. He might dump you on the spot. This is dependent on what type of guy he is. If not, expect a long period of a hellish environment in your household.


The power balance in the marriage will definitely shift, but it's very little justice for your husband given what he has lost by your actions.



Rob_1 said:


> 3. you might have a long period of fights and recriminations over it, then at the end, the marriage will be over.


The marriage is already over. You, OP, killed it the second you consumated your adultery. Your only option is to do everything in your power to try to build a new relationship with your husband. You divorced him without him knowing, now it's up to him if he wants to continue in that divorce or try to build a new relationship with you from scratch.



Rob_1 said:


> 4. he might just get so pissed that it will lead him to have a revenge affair himself, which might kill the marriage anyway.
> I would want to know, nonetheless if my partner cheated on me. it would be the end of my marriage, but at least I would know.


Again, there is no marriage to kill, it's dead already. There is no such thing a revenge affair in my eyes. He has been unilaterally divorced the moment adultery occurred and is morally free to date if he wishes.

I would not just want to know, I would be seething if I were denied even the slightest of detail.



Rob_1 said:


> Good luck.


Indeed.


----------



## rugswept

PR: I've been around these kinds of forums for a while. They took me apart here, after 35 yrs, because I never really closed it out, just like they said. 

I caught WW. It was a killer. It's still a killer. We had no kids and now have a very fine son.

I lived it, rugswept it, kept in inside, but survived it.

HERE'S YOUR QUESTION: What did you have before ? You still want it I take it. 
It's not up to you, it's up to Him. Do you want more of him, for real? Then you can't live the lie.

One of the worst, as far as punishment went was a case where the BH had no idea that decades before his WW had an affair. BH and WW were just living, grandkids, BH as happy grand dad. Then he found out. He kept up appearances but a close relative who knew him well said he's never been himself since something happened to him. 

I suffered through the real thing. If the whole thing had only come out after 25-30 years, I would feel I had lost all agency on my life and that it had been gone for a very long time.

Having an A is a really high risk game. Hiding an A can be even higher. I'll see ya' and raise ya'.


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## VladDracul

SRCSRC said:


> Your AP is a real dog for having an affair with a married woman. No way should he be allowed to skate free. He will do it to other couples.


You have to remember she was the one who took him up on his offer. He won't do anything to other couples the wife (at least I hope the wife) doesn't want him to do.




Rus47 said:


> My money is on PR not confessing. She has a bunch of experts advising her to stay quiet, and those telling her to confess detail the misery that will result. My money is also on her revisiting "The Apartmentl" until her husband finds out by other means


The thing is she appears to be considering confessing to relieve her self, the best she can, of the guilt and the possibility somebody is going to let the cat out of the bag. Not for her husband's "agency".


----------



## nextbigadv

Rus47 said:


> My money is on PR not confessing. She has a bunch of experts advising her to stay quiet, and those telling her to confess detail the misery that will result. My money is also on her revisiting "The Apartmentl" until her husband finds out by other means


PR if you go down this path, it would behoove you to make the time line right now so when your husband finds out later you don’t have to say I don’t remember.


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## SRCSRC

VladDracul: She gets not one ounce of empathy or diminished blame for what happened from me. But it takes two and the AP is a scumbag for hitting on a married woman. He has to pay for his role in this escapade. If he is married, his spouse must be told. It's like two people holding up a bank. While one of them held the gun, the other guy still is a bank robber and is just as culpable.


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## Tested_by_stress

SRCSRC said:


> VladDracul: She gets not one ounce of empathy or diminished blame for what happened from me. But it takes two and the AP is a scumbag for hitting on a married woman. He has to pay for his role in this escapade. If he is married, his spouse must be told. It's like two people holding up a bank. While one of them held the gun, the other guy still is a bank robber and is just as culpable.


The AP is most definitely a cockroach. Perhaps hubby will beat the crap out of him . He deserves it.


----------



## Rob_1

Dictum Veritas said:


> It takes a special kind of selfishness, bordering on or at least displaying a level of psychopathy to infantilize your partner and deprive them of the agency to make an informed discussion about their own fate and future.


No, you're overboard here with this statement. That's what most normal humans do for self-preservation (it happens all time, every day, 'till the end of days). Let's be realistic here and let's dispense with the melodramatic, It's part of who we are as a species. it's a lot of disingenuous to state* "a level of psychopathy to infantilize your partner"* is involved when a human cheats. Nooooo, is part of our nature. Most humans in these world would cheat when given the chance, but given that the way we evolved includes our socialization and conduct in societies as they evolved, specially after the discovery of agriculture where men needed to make certain that their progeny was theirs for sure (never sure enough until recently), we developed deterrances for mates not straying. but saying that you would have to become sort of a psycho that wants to infantilize your partner is completely out bound with normal human nature. We might feel that way in our hurt, but it is what it is nothing more. Some people can compartmentalize it other not. 

Of course, not one (or most specifically because there's people that don't want to know FYI) wants to be ignorant of being cheated. *My point to her was if what she really wanted was to stay marry*, that's what she needed to do given the probabilities are stacked against her, not that if it was right or not. so I gave her some of the possible outcomes. I DID SAY at the end The I would want to know, though; who wouldn't? 



Dictum Veritas said:


> he marriage is already over. You, OP, killed it the second you consumated your adultery.


That's what you and I would take it as. But, we don't know her husband, for all we know the dude could be like one of the many the come to these forum not knowing what to do crying and hurt but still, is staying with her. Or we could have the other extreme; a guys that upon learning he was betrayed would go crazy, and commit an act of pasional crime. So, no, not necessarily the marriage would be over, at least for her, until she confesses.



Dictum Veritas said:


> gain, there is no marriage to kill, it's dead already.


Again for you and me, and some others, but maybe yes, maybe not for the OP.

So that we all are clear, I do firmly stand on the camp that she should tell her husband. I guess I didn't conveyed myself clearly (I was supposedly working when I typed the response, hah, hah). But what I said it was for her to take stock on consequences about confessing, so that she wouldn't go with the idea as many clueless people do: oh, I'm confessing!, he/she will forgive me and I will morally be absolved and everything will be alright.


----------



## Benbutton

PR, I don't envy your situation in the least. One thing I can say is that choosing to say something is the right thing to do. There is something to be said for someone who can be 100% transparent and fall on the proverbial sword over such a heart wrenching issue. You know you messed up big time, nobody needs to reiterate that fact. 

I can say with honesty that if my xww had told me, things would have been much better off between us, though I still would have divorced. If he discovers this on his own it will be far more devastating. If you go to the grave with it, you will have permanently lost yourself to living a lie. I know in my heart I just couldn't do something like that and go to the grave with it. Courage is what separates the brave from the cowards.


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## Dictum Veritas

Rob_1 said:


> Most humans in these world would cheat when given the chance, but given that the way we evolved includes our socialization and conduct in societies as they evolved, specially after the discovery of agriculture where men needed to make certain that their progeny was theirs for sure (never sure enough until recently), we developed deterrances for mates not straying. but saying that you would have to become sort of a psycho that wants to infantilize your partner is completely out bound with normal human nature. We might feel that way in our hurt, but it is what it is nothing more. Some people can compartmentalize it other not.


That's kind of like saying, I'd kill that bloke for crossing me. That's also part of human nature, to remove opponents. Yet we take murder seriously. If we excuse adultery with this logic, murder is fine too as long as we can hide and compartmentalize it.


----------



## Rus47

Tested_by_stress said:


> The AP is most definitely a ****roach. Perhaps hubby will beat the crap out of him . He deserves it.


We don't know the boyfriend. To us he is a roach, but to a frustrated middle-aged married female he may be very enticing. My suspicion is he is a late thirties attractive, unattached male, perusing the middle-aged married women where he works. They were common in the company I once worked for, and they had plenty of bored, frustrated middle-aged married women anxious to try (or wear ) them out. I honestly don't blame the unattached males, they saw a need and they happily filled it. At my company the women could often be overheard in their cubicals comparing notes about the skills and physical attributes of various unattached men. We had incidents of them caught in the act in the lady's room, the coat room, etc at the job. Mostly they were told to stop it and not do that again on company property.

Those days were four decades ago, and long gone. But human nature hasn't changed since bible times.


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## Dictum Veritas

Rus47 said:


> We don't know the boyfriend. To us he is a roach, but to a frustrated middle-aged married female he may be very enticing. My suspicion is he is a late thirties attractive, unattached male, perusing the middle-aged married women where he works. They were common in the company I once worked for, and they had plenty of bored, frustrated middle-aged married women anxious to try (or wear ) them out. I honestly don't blame the unattached males, they saw a need and they happily filled it. At my company the women could often be overheard in their cubicals comparing notes about the skills and physical attributes of various unattached men. We had incidents of them caught in the act in the lady's room, the coat room, etc at the job. Mostly they were told to stop it and not do that again on company property.
> 
> Those days were four decades ago, and long gone. But human nature hasn't changed since bible times.


It doesn't make the act of infidelity less gross or the impact on the betrayed spouse less devastating. If it's simply excused as human nature, then we have to excuse murder too as explained in my previous post.


----------



## Rus47

Dictum Veritas said:


> It doesn't make the act of infidelity less gross or the impact on the betrayed spouse less devastating. If it's simply excused as human nature, then *we have to excuse murder too as explained in my previous post.*


Happens all of the time. "He grew up in a bad neighborhood", "He didn't have a father in the home". An accused murderer receives a PR bond, cuz it "isn't his fault".

Not excusing the OM, just saying am not surprised. Not sure if I had been one of those unattached 30 something men with a fallow field of willing, sexually experienced, DTF middle-aged females (married or single) that I would be able to pass on the temptation. Probably would have run afoul of an irate husband I suppose.


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## PurpleRoses

I appreciate the well meaning people who took the time to provide thoughtful advice. On the other hand there is an awful lot of gaslighting going on here and I know it when I read it. I'm not stupid. I really don't have time for that stuff. 

I get that a lot of you have been hurt, but revenge by proxy likely isn't helping you grow and get past it. 

There really is no right answer. Someone will be ready to call me defensive for whatever I say and that isn't constructive or helpful. People make mistakes, people do horrible things and I have done both. But I'm still a person, I have feelings and I know when people are just trying to be mean to me.


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## Dictum Veritas

PurpleRoses said:


> I appreciate the well meaning people who took the time to provide thoughtful advice. On the other hand there is an awful lot of gaslighting going on here and I know it when I read it. I'm not stupid. I really don't have time for that stuff.
> 
> I get that a lot of you have been hurt, but revenge by proxy likely isn't helping you grow and get past it.
> 
> There really is no right answer. Someone will be ready to call me defensive for whatever I say and that isn't constructive or helpful. People make mistakes, people do horrible things and I have done both. But I'm still a person, I have feelings and I know when people are just trying to be mean to me.


I must be one of the worst detractors of infidelity, but I'm painting a picture of the actual severity of infidelity. Your marriage is over and I want you to face it. You need to know you killed it. Whatever happens from this moment forward is as a result of your choice to kill that relationship.

I really hope you manage to forge a new relationship with your husband, but it's up to him if he wants to.

You didn't make a mistake. You made the choices to kill your marriage. You could have made 1000 different choices to prevent the adultery. You chose to unilaterally divorce your husband without telling him. It's a blunt statement, but it's 100% truthful.


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## BigDaddyNY

PurpleRoses said:


> I appreciate the well meaning people who took the time to provide thoughtful advice. On the other hand there is an awful lot of gaslighting going on here and I know it when I read it. I'm not stupid. I really don't have time for that stuff.
> 
> I get that a lot of you have been hurt, but revenge by proxy likely isn't helping you grow and get past it.
> 
> There really is no right answer. Someone will be ready to call me defensive for whatever I say and that isn't constructive or helpful. People make mistakes, people do horrible things and I have done both. But I'm still a person, I have feelings and I know when people are just trying to be mean to me.


You will get all perspectives here, from great to completely awful. It is just the nature of things. You have done something to your husband that has cause excruciating pain in many people here and they are going to express that pain however they see fit. What you are seeing here will be everything you can expect from your husband, including him being down right mean to you. Wouldn't you be mean and not so understanding if the roles were reversed?

And 3 days have gone by since you came here and you still haven't told him.


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## BigDaddyNY

Dictum Veritas said:


> I must be one of the worst detractors of infidelity, but I'm painting a picture of the actual severity of infidelity. Your marriage is over and I want you to face it. You need to know you killed it. Whatever happens from this moment forward is as a result of your choice to kill that relationship.
> 
> I really hope you manage to forge a new relationship with your husband, but it's up to him if he wants to.
> 
> *You didn't make a mistake. You made the choice to kill your marriage. You chose to unilaterally divorce your husband without telling him. It's a blunt statement, but it's 100% truthful.*


Every cheater needs to read and understand that.


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## Tested_by_stress

PurpleRoses said:


> People make mistakes, people do horrible things and I have done both. But I'm still a person, I have feelings and I know when people are just trying to be mean to me.


Be careful when confessing PR. "Mistake" is a poor word choice. An affair is not a mistake. It's a choice. A mistake is coming home with the wrong flavoured ice cream or something of that nature. While it might seem trivial to pick apart grammar, the wrong word said can have quite an effect on the betrayed spouse.


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## uphillbattle

PurpleRoses said:


> People make mistakes, people do horrible things and I have done both. But I'm still a person, I have feelings and I know when people are just trying to be mean to me.


You didn't make a mistake, you made choices. MANY BAD CHOICES.
You really do need to get to a spot where you realize that your feelings no longer matter in this situation AT ALL. It's about your husband's feelings. Your feelings are what led you to this point, be kind and give him a turn.


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## SRCSRC

PR: You are getting worked over pretty good here. But as WWs go, you are much better than 90%. You know what you did and you are ready to face the consequences. Most WWs don't confess or they trickle truth as more facts are revealed. It is simply torturous for both parties. My ex-WW was a typical liar who finally confessed after months of investigation and questioning on my part. I went through hell getting to the truth. She wasn't typically remorseful but we stayed together due to an incompetent MC. She cheated again and that was that. You seem extremely sorry and that is what makes your story particularly tragic. Your marriage seemed good but you succumbed to selfish desires. It may cost you a good marriage. It will devastate your husband no matter what happens. Nothing anyone can say to change the past. 

Therefore, as many have urged, the complete truth is necessary. You don't need to give a blow by blow of the sex unless demanded by your husband, but otherwise, be prepared to give beginning and ending dates. I would provide details as requested by your husband. I think you should start off by stating you had an affair that began on such a date and you ended it on the subsequent date. You must also reveal the name of your AP. Tell him you are horrified by your actions and have no excuse why you did what you did. Let him then proceed to ask questions to fill in the gaps. Be truthful and complete in your answers.

Again, you must leave your job if the two of you want to stay together. Don't expect your husband to accept your continued employment at your present employer regardless of the fact that the AP works in a different department. You are working from home so you have time to look for another job before you quit.

You must never ever contact your AP again. 

You must notify the AP's partner of the affair.

You must set up an appointment with an IC that specializes in infidelity.

These steps should be taken before you tell your husband as an act of good faith. Simply telling him what you did means little. Actions speak louder than words and these steps are simple and must be done immediately if you desire to save the marriage. I feel bad for you and your family. This shouldn't have happened but it did due to your selfishness. Aside from confessing, the minimum you must now do is what I have listed above. I don't know you but I feel truly sad about what has and will happen. God speed.


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## Dictum Veritas

SRCSRC said:


> You must also reveal the name of your AP.


Not only reveal, but throw him under the garbage truck like trash. If you husband senses the slightest bit of fondness left for him, any effort you may want to implement to save you marriage is worth nothing. If this man is not nothing less than a snake to you; he'll kill whatever hope you have to reconcile with you marriage in future. If you have any fondness left towards the AP, you might as well research single bedroom apartments and cats for yourself.


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## Rob_1

Dictum Veritas said:


> That's kind of like saying, I'd kill that bloke for crossing me. That's also part of human nature, to remove opponents. Yet we take murder seriously. If we excuse adultery with this logic, murder is fine too as long as we can hide and compartmentalize it.


Dictum: dude we are in the page on this, but for your quote above: Yes, isn't this what we humans have been doing since the beginning? Didn't the countries/people that committed atrocities, like genocide they somehow justified it and compartmentalize it? We all do compartmentalize behavior (any kind of behavior) that might be considered not kosher, whether is just a white lie or an horrible act upon humanity to one degree or another. Regardless of how collectively we might repudiate these types of behavior it still is what it is, no matter the cries. So let's be realistic, not just preachily just about it.


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## Fly With Me

Purple Rose I'm sorry you feel this way. It's so easy to feel attacked and overwhelmed on threads like this. You are just one person and you are getting all these heated responses. Noone likes being judged and you are being judged hard. Kudos for still being here. I started a thread a few months ago and had to completely come away from it for several months because I couldn't handle it.

Some of what has been said may not be true for you. People are talking in generalities because they don't really know many details of your particular affair. You don't have to take on board any wild accusations or conjecture just ignore them. But I would say 80 percent has been real, albeit unvarnished, truth. There truly is gold here for you. I hope you are able to see and take that with you.

I've seen threads like these completely turn around as the original poster keeps coming back and sharing their journey - taking on board some advice, leaving other advice. Noone spends their precious time giving free advice you would normally have to pay a therapist through the nose for, if they didn't care about the best possible outcome for you and your husband. 

All the best with whatever you decide and whatever comes next for you. Keep being kind to yourself and keep being as honest as you can be. You have real gold inside you. People here are rooting for you even if they're angry.


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## Dictum Veritas

Rob_1 said:


> Dictum: dude we are in the page on this, but for your quote above: Yes, isn't this what we humans have been doing since the beginning? Didn't the countries/people that committed atrocities, like genocide they somehow justified it and compartmentalize it? We all do compartmentalize behavior (any kind of behavior) that might be considered not kosher, whether is just a white lie or an horrible act upon humanity to one degree or another. Regardless of how collectively we might repudiate these types of behavior it still is what it is, no matter the cries. So let's be realistic, not just preachily just about it.


Then we are actually on the same page, I seem to interpret is a bit stricter, but I don't see much in terms of disagreement.


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## Rob_1

PurpleRoses said:


> People make mistakes


Yes. I agreed with you: people make mistakes. But if you are referring to your betrayal of your husband, let's make one thing clear here: That was not a mistake. That was a deliberate act the was carry with want, planning, and rationalization. A mistake is when you put a black sock and a dark blue one thinking that they both were a pair of black socks. Please, take and accept it for what it actually is.


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## Galabar01

Could you point out the comments you consider to be gas lighting?


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## Dictum Veritas

@PurpleRoses , you may save this with your husband if you tell him. You will live a lie with him if you don't. He will hence forth be the person you respect less than dog detritus on a blistering sidewalk if you do not tell him the truth. should he find out on his own, like so many of us betrayed spouses did while the adulteresses thought they were hiding it well and are untouchable, things can escalate as far as murder. I know that's a rare instance, but infidelity is a sin that can drive people there.

The chances that he would become homicidal is very rare if you should confess. Not really true for husbands who find out for themselves. You have really played with fire and only in the coals of us here may you find a path that may be somewhat acceptable.


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## Dictum Veritas

Galabar01 said:


> Could you point out the comments you consider to be gas lighting?


This is a question I second as to want to have an answer to.


----------



## VladDracul

SRCSRC said:


> VladDracul: She gets not one ounce of empathy or diminished blame for what happened from me. But it takes two and the AP is a scumbag for hitting on a married woman. He has to pay for his role in this escapade. If he is married, his spouse must be told. It's like two people holding up a bank. While one of them held the gun, the other guy still is a bank robber and is just as culpable.


Believe me, it ain't gonna hurt my feeling if old loverboy gets outed. I'm just saying that you don't have to autopsy many affairs before you find several where the woman was the pursuer and made it really clear from the getgo that she was available. Take my word for it, I know how aggressive married women who want to play can be.


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## marko polo

Galabar01 said:


> Could you point out the comments you consider to be gas lighting?


Any and all comments that do not pat her on the back and praise her for considering and *talking *about doing the right thing - confessing her affair to her husband.

Talk is cheap. Divorces are not.


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## Cletus

Just when I thought I had nothing useful to contribute.

@PurpleRoses - 

I have been in your shoes, 16 years ago. I patched my marriage up after the fact, and both my wife and I are glad that we did. And yes, I am sure of it.

If you are going to try to reconcile, you don't need to listen to the folks equating infidelity with murder. You only need to listen to your husband, who gets to decide how terminal was your offense. If you tell him at all - that too is your choice.

Either way, the actual most important thing for you to do is to understand WHY you strayed and what you will do about whatever made you act stupidly in the future. If you can't in God's honest truth convince yourself that you will never do it again, then you cannot be trusted to continue as a married partner. Feeling bad now is not good enough - that will fade with time. You have to change how you think of your coping skills with whatever caused you to stray so that you have a solid notion of how to avoid it in the future. 

For me, it was changing how I thought about my entitlement to something my spouse could not give me. I had to realize deep down that this was not sufficient justification for seeking it elsewhere. You will need to do some serious soul searching. And you will need to be brutally honest with yourself.

Now why did you stray? "I don't know" is not an adequate reply. If you cannot answer that question, you cannot fix your marriage.


----------



## recovering2018

OP: I'm probably not saying much that hasn't already been said, but here goes...

1. The story about your cheating is similar to many others. The explanation is really just unsatisfactory and just useless fluff. You willingly chose to cheat. You chose to f him many times.
2. Are you a bad person? Your husband poured many years of his life into your relationship. His expectation was that he could trust you. Humans only have so much time and energy. You stole both from him and nothing can get that back. You gave no consideration to this and kept going back for more. Every random woman on the street is now more trustworthy to him than you. I just don't think a good person does that.
3. You need to tell him ASAP. Place the kids with relatives and get this done by Saturday. You already have plenty of checklists. Remember, you'd be doing all of these things for HIM, not for you. Offer to do all of them, for the right reasons... to help him recover. NOT to help you.
4. Throw yourself at his mercy. Tell him that you hope that he's willing to eventually take you back. Tell him you don't need any answers right away but that you'll abide by his wishes.

That's all.


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## VladDracul

PurpleRoses said:


> There really is no right answer. Someone will be ready to call me defensive for whatever I say and that isn't constructive or helpful. People make mistakes, people do horrible things and I have done both. But I'm still a person, I have feelings and I know when people are just trying to be mean to me.


Purple, all I'm telling you is that you need to backoff your eagerness to confess until you get your ducks in a row. Some of the stuff you've been saying just sounds like your tryng to sugar coat your involvement and participation. You may not be stupid but your old man ain't either. He's going to drill down on everything you say and if his perception is youre lying, youre toast. Saying youre a horrible person ain't gonna cut it. His thoughts are going to be "what did I do or what am I missing to cause her to "take up" with another man. You damn well better be prepared to answer that question if you care about your old man. His head is going to be filled with mind movies about you and your paramour. You're going to spend many many months patching injuries for the train wreak you caused, if you can clean up the wreckage.
I'm not judging you and really don't give a rats azz if you slept with half the men in your neighborhood. I'm old now and lived a very bad life up until my mid forties. Let's just say you and your boyfriend are rank amateurs at cheating and you weren't prepared for the collateral damage when your affair went south, and they all go south.


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## ABHale

PurpleRoses said:


> Good lord, if he wants to get a DNA test on our children he can go right ahead, he won't be disappointed, they're both his.
> 
> Also, I don't know what goes on between other people but we never talked about my husband. We certainly never mocked him, and I don't find it amusing.


There is a thread on TAM that another wayward wife is posting her story. The OM and her did things just to disrespect their spouses. 

Most of the time the OM will push the conversation or actions to intentionally disrespect the husband.

You cheating on your husband is the biggest disrespect of all. Anything else is just adding fuel to the destruction of his manhood.

If your kids are teenagers you need to let them know you cheated, no details. Your husband’s attitude towards you after you confess needs to be explained to them so they don’t get mad at him.


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## watcher

PurpleRoses said:


> I decided that I need to tell my husband about something that happened. I'm not even sure to begin, but one thing I'm really just not sure about. Can I ask him to forgive me? Or do I just tell him and let him express his feelings?
> 
> Part of me feels like asking him will pressure him to saying certain things, but if I don't ask he may think that I don't even want him to forgive me.


No it's not fair to ask forgiveness. My ex pushed me for that because he was sick. It did forgive, and he cheated again. 
You need to also be willing to find another job because your DH will not want you 2 together again.
Forgiveness is a process not a one off a ton. Trust is broken and not easily mended. 
I was married for 41 yrs to this man, and he was unfaithful for a total of 8 yrs with 3 women. I know how it feels to listen to "confessions" Offer to go to counselling.


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## Dictum Veritas

Okay, me bashing you has run it's coarse. I thinks I've said enough for you to know exactly where you know where you stand.

This is me helping you now:

1) You really have a limited time to come clean, you need to do so as soon as humanly possible, In order to do so, contact your or his parents and ask them to take the kids.
2) Have timeline ready. It may just be a bullet point timeline at this stage, but it needs to be enough for you to be unable to backtrack from.
3) Have an STD panel ready or at least have one booked within the next week.
4) Have a no-contact letter ready for your AP and be ready to send it with your husband, even going as far as for him to press the send button.
5) Quite your job, Aby chance of involvement with the AP is rightfully seen as a continuation of the affair.
6) Have a place to stay ready. If he kicks you out go stay there; make sure it's miles away from your AP.
7) Never lie to your husband. He's going to want to know all the details such as if a condom was used, did yo orgasm and many more. Answer all truthfully,
8) Tell your husband you realized you blew your current marriage out of the water. Tell him you are willing to work on a new on.
9) Even is he calls you the worst names in the world, don't be defensive. You earned every one of them, own them
10) Don't oppose anything your husband needs to walk on. This includes DNA for the kids all the way for him distancing himself by getting an apartment or kicking you out of the home.
11) Your marriage is don't play in the wreckage before the fire is under control, now begins the hard part, you as a fife defiled yourself. Evelyn room in his house might just still stink of sex and desperation.



Go to your husbands with the full tale and if he takes you back, please as him. Not only would he Derives of is simply a NWO poppet, Have fun being a drone river. These things make even me cringe and the crooks gave it all.


----------



## marko polo

PurpleRoses said:


> I appreciate the well meaning people who took the time to provide thoughtful advice. On the other hand there is an awful lot of gaslighting going on here and I know it when I read it. I'm not stupid. I really don't have time for that stuff.
> 
> I get that a lot of you have been hurt, but revenge by proxy likely isn't helping you grow and get past it.
> 
> There really is no right answer. Someone will be ready to call me defensive for whatever I say and that isn't constructive or helpful. People make mistakes, people do horrible things and I have done both. But I'm still a person, I have feelings and I know when people are just trying to be mean to me.


Forgetting to buy milk on your way home or locking your keys in your car are mistakes.

You made many deliberate choices to betray your husband. How many lies did you tell? Like any other wayward you attempt to minimize what you have done.

Yes you are a person with feelings. Unfortunately you at the time couldn't be bothered to consider your husband's feelings or your kids. If you think what I am saying is mean vs truth you are in for some rude surprises when you hear what your husband has to say about you and how you characterize your affair as a mistake.


----------



## Jimhardc

PurpleRoses said:


> I am going to tell him. I just don't know how to do it or where to start. I understand that I don't get to control his reaction but I'm still worried about it. I'm just in a really bad place right now, I was sort of hoping that someone had been through this and it worked out in the end. This is just making me more anxious.
> 
> If it were reversed, I wouldn't want to know anything about it, just that he was sorry and still loved me. I don't think I could talk about it like that. I'm ashamed of the entire thing.


Ok I can tell you from personal experience, My wife pulled the same crap as you 
*1 I have forgiven her BUT I HAVE NOT FORGOT !! 
2 be prepared to leave possibly for good 
3 if your really sorry don’t ever try to justify your actions *
It is a long road back but you can make it be ready to answer any questions because what will go through his head will be killing him inside. I hope you are ashamed of yourself and truly know the pain you have caused. The fact you here asking for help gives me hope. Good luck


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## Jimhardc

PurpleRoses said:


> My marriage isn't a series of denials. We were having sex, there weren't any whips, leather or chains involved.
> 
> There are so many assumptions here. I was afraid to do it. I can't help that I did it now, but how can that be compared to confessing something like this? And I did end it ok, I felt horribly guilty and ended it. And you know what? It didn't help, I still feel very an overwhelming sense of guilt and shame. I love my husband and it breaks my heart that I did this to him. I am not a callous hateful person, I'm really not.


Please remember many people on here have been the victims of betrayals such as this and everytime we hear about it it hurts us knowing the pain your husband will be in , in the very near future. So anger comes out I would love to say don’t take it personally but it’s very per for us.


----------



## Trident

Dictum Veritas said:


> Okay, me bashing you has run it's coarse. I thinks I've said enough for you to know exactly where you know where you stand.


You place entirely too much importance on your own words. 

I highly doubt she cares all that much what you have to say to her.


----------



## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> I get that a lot of you have been hurt, but revenge by proxy likely isn't helping you grow and get past it.
> 
> There really is no right answer. Someone will be ready to call me defensive for whatever I say and that isn't constructive or helpful. People make mistakes, people do horrible things and I have done both. But I'm still a person, I have feelings and I know when people are just trying to be mean to me.


Step back just a bit and consider that this was all about you… until it wasn’t. It’s now all about your husband. At this point your feelings aren’t something to attack or defend here. It is now 100% about your husband. And what’s frustrating to many here is that you come across as more concerned with being able to sleep at night than the agency you have so far denied your husband.

There’s no proxy war going on here. It’s not about revenge. It’s about knowing what your husband is facing. The experience of so many here who find similarities in your husband’s story. You asked about forgiveness and got the answer.

Please do the right thing and tell him. All the details so he doesn’t end up trapped in endless mind movies. That’s a real thing.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Cletus said:


> Just when I thought I had nothing useful to contribute.
> 
> @PurpleRoses -
> 
> I have been in your shoes, 16 years ago. I patched my marriage up after the fact, and both my wife and I are glad that we did. And yes, I am sure of it.
> 
> If you are going to try to reconcile, you don't need to listen to the folks equating infidelity with murder. You only need to listen to your husband, who gets to decide how terminal was your offense. If you tell him at all - that too is your choice.
> 
> Either way, the actual most important thing for you to do is to understand WHY you strayed and what you will do about whatever made you act stupidly in the future. If you can't in God's honest truth convince yourself that you will never do it again, then you cannot be trusted to continue as a married partner. Feeling bad now is not good enough - that will fade with time. You have to change how you think of your coping skills with whatever caused you to stray so that you have a solid notion of how to avoid it in the future.
> 
> For me, it was changing how I thought about my entitlement to something my spouse could not give me. I had to realize deep down that this was not sufficient justification for seeking it elsewhere. You will need to do some serious soul searching. And you will need to be brutally honest with yourself.
> 
> Now why did you stray? "I don't know" is not an adequate reply. If you cannot answer that question, you cannot fix your marriage.


I do know why I did it, I'm not a child and I won't pretend I don't know. They aren't good reasons and I regret what I did, I can't take it back, but I know I could have stopped it and I decided not to.


----------



## Gomezaddams51

PurpleRoses said:


> I never said I think it's ok. I'm not proud of what I've done. There is nothing that justifies it. I can't sleep and I have really bad anxiety. I would be horrified if it were reversed.


So you need to come clean and tell him. It may destroy your marriage but then you did that already when you decided to cheat. Let him decide if he wants to save the marriage or kick you to the curb and find a woman who won't cheat.


----------



## SRCSRC

RB: Ok, and are you now ready to never see or have any contact with the AP again? Are you ready to leave your job?


----------



## PurpleRoses

I will answer the constant call for me to quit my job once. Well guess what? I don't have the type of job you just quit and start somewhere else at the same level. In the real world when you quit you get no unemployment insurance. I don't have time to start a new career. I'm not going to get into what I do, but it isn't something you just quit. We have two kids who will he starting college and lots of other commitments. Quitting would make quite the other mess and no, his salary will not cover our expenses. 

And what of he does want a divorce? No I'm without my career? Supporting myself how? Or is that just the point? I'm not supposed to be able to do that? Is this supposed to be my punishment? 

The building we work in has 22 floors and an annex. I work in the annex and he works in the other side. You need keycards to enter the floors. It won't be that hard to avoid him. In time, I can look for a transfer if we decide to relocate as a family, but quitting is just about the worst option if we stay married or get divorced. There isn't really much else to say about that.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

PurpleRoses said:


> I will answer the constant call for me to quit my job once. Well guess what? I don't have the type of job you just quit and start somewhere else at the same level. In the real world when you quit you get no unemployment insurance. I don't have time to start a new career. I'm not going to get into what I do, but it isn't something you just quit. We have two kids who will he starting college and lots of other commitments. Quitting would make quite the other mess and no, his salary will not cover our expenses.
> 
> And what of he does want a divorce? No I'm without my career? Supporting myself how? Or is that just the point? I'm not supposed to be able to do that? Is this supposed to be my punishment?
> 
> The building we work in has 22 floors and an annex. I work in the annex and he works in the other side. You need keycards to enter the floors. It won't be that hard to avoid him. In time, I can look for a transfer if we decide to relocate as a family, but quitting is just about the worst option if we stay married or get divorced. There isn't really much else to say about that.


You are not remorseful if you aren't willing to do anything and everything to save the marriage. You really think your husband, if he decides he wants to reconcile, will be okay with you working at the same place as the man you've been ****ing behind his back?


----------



## Tested_by_stress

PurpleRoses said:


> I will answer the constant call for me to quit my job once. Well guess what? I don't have the type of job you just quit and start somewhere else at the same level. In the real world when you quit you get no unemployment insurance. I don't have time to start a new career. I'm not going to get into what I do, but it isn't something you just quit. We have two kids who will he starting college and lots of other commitments. Quitting would make quite the other mess and no, his salary will not cover our expenses.
> 
> And what of he does want a divorce? No I'm without my career? Supporting myself how? Or is that just the point? I'm not supposed to be able to do that? Is this supposed to be my punishment?
> 
> The building we work in has 22 floors and an annex. I work in the annex and he works in the other side. You need keycards to enter the floors. It won't be that hard to avoid him. In time, I can look for a transfer if we decide to relocate as a family, but quitting is just about the worst option if we stay married or get divorced. There isn't really much else to say about that.


Well aren't you in a pickle now? If only you could have done something to avoid this mess.


----------



## SRCSRC

You should not quit your job if your husband is going to divorce you. That is a given. But you should move heaven and earth to find something else to get you out of there if you wish to reconcile. If you will be working from home for the foreseeable future, you have time to do so. Waywards who desperately want to reconcile do just that. But it is your call. You are most likely going to have to do a hell of a sales job on your husband for him to agree with your continued work at your present employer. All of what you indicate regarding physical separation did not stop you from making contact with the AP during the lockdown. If you were so protected from him how did you hook up with him? Not a good look for someone who wants to reconcile. Also, I assume you have no problem going NC with your AP forever. Am I correct?


----------



## uphillbattle

PurpleRoses said:


> I will answer the constant call for me to quit my job once. Well guess what? I don't have the type of job you just quit and start somewhere else at the same level. In the real world when you quit you get no unemployment insurance. I don't have time to start a new career. I'm not going to get into what I do, but it isn't something you just quit. We have two kids who will he starting college and lots of other commitments. Quitting would make quite the other mess and no, his salary will not cover our expenses.
> 
> And what of he does want a divorce? No I'm without my career? Supporting myself how? Or is that just the point? I'm not supposed to be able to do that? Is this supposed to be my punishment?
> 
> The building we work in has 22 floors and an annex. I work in the annex and he works in the other side. You need keycards to enter the floors. It won't be that hard to avoid him. In time, I can look for a transfer if we decide to relocate as a family, but quitting is just about the worst option if we stay married or get divorced. There isn't really much else to say about that.


Quite the quandary you put your husband in. If he wants to stay with you he has to live with you going back to the place you met and formed a bond with your ****buddy? I'm not one of the people who has said you need to quit your job. This may be a hard line in then sand for him. You may wish to consider what you would do if this is the case. 

Good luck


----------



## JasonX

deleted.


----------



## Galabar01

I'm still waiting for clarification on the gas lighting. I guess there wasn't any?


----------



## Divinely Favored

PurpleRoses said:


> I appreciate the well meaning people who took the time to provide thoughtful advice. On the other hand there is an awful lot of gaslighting going on here and I know it when I read it. I'm not stupid. I really don't have time for that stuff.
> 
> I get that a lot of you have been hurt, but revenge by proxy likely isn't helping you grow and get past it.
> 
> There really is no right answer. Someone will be ready to call me defensive for whatever I say and that isn't constructive or helpful. People make mistakes, people do horrible things and I have done both. But I'm still a person, I have feelings and I know when people are just trying to be mean to me.


It would be best if you never say it was a mistake....oops i turned the wrong way...i made a mistake....that word does not apply to the constant line of concoius wrong decisions you made. Mistake is not knowing any better. You know what you dod was so very wrong but you did it any way. It was in no way a mistake. That word minimizes what you have done and a man that was cheated on...it will infuriate him.


----------



## Harold Demure

You make a valid point about needing an income should your husband divorce you. It would also financially benefit him in any divorce if you are working.

Some questions though:

- Would you consider offering to leave your job IF and/or when you confess to your husband in recognition that this will be a major barrier for him to overcome?

-What will you do if your husband asks you to leave your job as part of any reconciliation?

- Has the enormity of what you have done really sunk in yet?

- Do you actually fully recognise that you have a high chance of getting divorced?

- Do you really understand what your life is going to be like if you divorce, what you stand to lose in terms of your husband’s and children’s love and respect for you as well as the home and financial life?

- You rally against leaving your job as “a punishment”. What do you think would be suitable consequences for your appalling betrayal? Do you think there should be no consequences at all, it just happened, can’t change the past so get over it?

You are probably going to say of course you understand but is that just at a surface level or is it really deep understand because I would as sure as hell be frightened for the future if I was in your shoes

I have to say the tone of your post regarding your job managed to be aggressive and defensive at the same time. I would suggest that if you use that tone with your husband at any time or in any part of this sad saga, then you might as well get the divorce papers ready now.


----------



## Marc878

PurpleRoses said:


> I appreciate the well meaning people who took the time to provide thoughtful advice. On the other hand there is an awful lot of gaslighting going on here and I know it when I read it. I'm not stupid. I really don't have time for that stuff.
> 
> I get that a lot of you have been hurt, but revenge by proxy likely isn't helping you grow and get past it.
> 
> There really is no right answer. Someone will be ready to call me defensive for whatever I say and that isn't constructive or helpful. People make mistakes, people do horrible things and I have done both. But I'm still a person, I have feelings and I know when people are just trying to be mean to me.


Infidelity isn’t a mistake. It’s a decision.


----------



## Harold Demure

Broke the last post into 2 to hopefully make it easier to read.

You have had a real battering on here but there are a lot of posts where people are genuinely trying to offer you good advice on how to possibly save your marriage. 

This advice may not be wrapped up in a pretty little bow but it is based on people’s experiences of what worked or didn’t work in their cases.

Of course there is going to be bitterness and rage coming through in many of the posts but I would suggest this NOTHING compared to what your husband is going to display over a very long period of time IF you finally get round to telling him.

I am still not convinced that you fully understand the future that lies ahead for you because you haven’t experienced it yet. Others have and they are trying to fore warn you.

Having read your posts again, I am also not fully convinced you should tell your husband, particularly following your (in denial) post about your job. I don’t know you but you come across to me as a person who will be able to live with deception for the rest of your life and you most certainly come across as a person who is highly likely to cheat again.


----------



## Marc878

PurpleRoses said:


> I will answer the constant call for me to quit my job once. Well guess what? I don't have the type of job you just quit and start somewhere else at the same level. In the real world when you quit you get no unemployment insurance. I don't have time to start a new career. I'm not going to get into what I do, but it isn't something you just quit. We have two kids who will he starting college and lots of other commitments. Quitting would make quite the other mess and no, his salary will not cover our expenses.
> 
> And what of he does want a divorce? No I'm without my career? Supporting myself how? Or is that just the point? I'm not supposed to be able to do that? Is this supposed to be my punishment?
> 
> The building we work in has 22 floors and an annex. I work in the annex and he works in the other side. You need keycards to enter the floors. It won't be that hard to avoid him. In time, I can look for a transfer if we decide to relocate as a family, but quitting is just about the worst option if we stay married or get divorced. There isn't really much else to say about that.


This is all you, you and you. Your husband will have to live with the knowledge that you could have contact or see your boyfriend daily. Even if you aren’t his thoughts of the maybe will be tough. Might be impossible to live with.
Most wayward never think of the consequences afterwards or the effects on the betrayed but they will be there. No way around that.

Is the other man married?


----------



## RebuildingMe

Galabar01 said:


> I'm still waiting for clarification on the gas lighting. I guess there wasn't any?


Oh no, there is gas lighting all right, it’s what OP’s husband is about to get.


----------



## Diana7

So when are you going to tell him? He already knows something is wrong, goodness knows what he is thinking.


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## SRCSRC

Marc878 said:


> This is all you, you and you. Your husband will have to live with the knowledge that you could have contact or see your boyfriend daily. Even if you aren’t his thoughts of the maybe will be tough. Might be impossible to live with.
> Most wayward never think of the consequences afterwards or the effects on the betrayed but they will be there. No way around that.
> 
> Is the other man married?


She hasn't answered that question. If she tells her BS the name of the AP, he should be able to figure it out. It seems that the OP feels it is necessary to protect the AP on some level. I could be wrong, but her reticence to answer that question is quite disconcerting.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

OP is in denial as to how serious infidelity is, granted the linked video is a worst case scenario, but adultery can and has lead to the following:


----------



## Davit Bek

PurpleRoses said:


> I will answer the constant call for me to quit my job once. Well guess what? I don't have the type of job you just quit and start somewhere else at the same level. In the real world when you quit you get no unemployment insurance. I don't have time to start a new career. I'm not going to get into what I do, but it isn't something you just quit. We have two kids who will he starting college and lots of other commitments. Quitting would make quite the other mess and no, his salary will not cover our expenses.
> 
> And what of he does want a divorce? No I'm without my career? Supporting myself how? Or is that just the point? I'm not supposed to be able to do that? Is this supposed to be my punishment?
> 
> The building we work in has 22 floors and an annex. I work in the annex and he works in the other side. You need keycards to enter the floors. It won't be that hard to avoid him. In time, I can look for a transfer if we decide to relocate as a family, but quitting is just about the worst option if we stay married or get divorced. There isn't really much else to say about that.


You make a fair point that quitting given the nature of your job is not a good decision regardless of marital status. It's just that your husband might not accept your continuing to work at the same place as the guy. My suggestion is to be proactive in pretty much everything you can do to minimize any sort of interaction with the guy prior to the reveal so you can tell your husband here are the things that I've done to never run into him. For example "I've asked to work from home for the rest of the year and then I'll put in a transfer". Anything to ease his mind if at all possible, but at least you show a genuine effort. I feel for your husband and children. He's in for some serious pain. Again, best of luck.


----------



## Galabar01

Are you protecting your AP?


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## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> I do know why I did it, I'm not a child and I won't pretend I don't know. They aren't good reasons and* I regret what I did*, I can't take it back, but I know I could have stopped it and I decided not to.


Every inmate *regrets* what they did, usually because the were caught and convicted. Most rationalize and never repent. Those that repent and try to make restitution to those they harm often receive forgiveness for their crimes.

You said you have trouble sleeping and eating and your sin is eating at you. Regret won't do anything to make you feel better about yourself. Repentance and restitution, doing all you can to make things right for those you have offended will let you look in the mirror without loathing. And most of the internet strangers on here will soften their posts on your thread. All of us have done things we are ashamed of.


----------



## Rus47

SRCSRC said:


> You should not quit your job if your husband is going to divorce you. That is a given. But you should move heaven and earth to find something else to get you out of there if you wish to reconcile. If you will be working from home for the foreseeable future, you have time to do so. Waywards who desperately want to reconcile do just that. But it is your call. You are most likely going to have to do a hell of a sales job on your husband for him to agree with your continued work at your present employer.* All of what you indicate regarding physical separation did not stop you from making contact with the AP during the lockdown.* *If you were so protected from him how did you hook up with him? Not a *good look for someone who wants to reconcile. Also, I assume you have no problem going NC with your AP forever. Am I correct?


Exacty!


----------



## sideways

So purple when are you going to tell your husband??


----------



## Vorpal

How do you think your husband is going to react?


----------



## Trustless Marriage

PurpleRoses said:


> I do know why I did it, I'm not a child and I won't pretend I don't know. They aren't good reasons and I regret what I did, I can't take it back, but I know I could have stopped it and I decided not to.


I respect your answer. Just don't stray from it and change your reasons as you work this out with your husband. It's a much better answer than my wife. Although different scenario, my wife's response why she had a 1 night stand during a few week breakup banging him on four separate occasion throughout the night and morning was "his personality was too strong". Who the &#^$ says "his personality was too strong" as a reason? What the *&$^ does that mean? Then it went from "I said no" to "I decided to give him a chance". All over the board. Bottom line is she knew why she did it. She was lonely and loved the attention. She just will not admit it. At least you know why and admit it.


----------



## Luckylucky

Trustless Marriage said:


> I respect your answer. Just don't stray from it and change your reasons as you work this out with your husband. It's a much better answer than my wife. Although different scenario, my wife's response why she had a 1 night stand during a few week breakup banging him on four separate occasion throughout the night and morning was "his personality was too strong". Who the &#^$ says "his personality was too strong" as a reason? What the *&$^ does that mean? Then it went from "I said no" to "I decided to give him a chance". All over the board. Bottom line is she knew why she did it. She was lonely and loved the attention. She just will not admit it. At least you know why and admit it.


This is what I noticed early on, she really doesn’t blame anyone or offer tired excuses. 

You know what else I notice that stands apart from the other cheater posts? Paragraph after paragraph about their OM/OW, and about a sentence or two about their spouse. Either complaining, blaming or ‘I really love my husband/wife.’ Tacked on somewhere after lengthy descriptions of the AP and every detail about their lives and hair colour or age or attributes. See the difference? 

Have we all noticed she hasn’t even described him? This person is not even on her mind, her focus isn’t even on herself, nor is she dishing out tired pathetic reasons. She repeatedly mentions her husband and hasn’t got nice things to say about herself. Yes she’s probably dodging questions about AP
and not talking about him because he takes up no space in her world anymore.


----------



## jsmart

You carried out an affair at work but now you’re saying that it’s a big campus that you won’t see each other. You’re husband is going to have a hard time trusting you going to the scene of the crime 5 days a week. 

Just because the affair has stopped for a while doesn’t mean you’re out of the woods. The number of affairs that restart after a few months of dormancy is significant. Running into OM is going to possibly bring those feelings back. Affairs are very addictive and having this guy chase after you again, can be very alluring. It’s easy to say I won’t do this again but very different when he lays on the charm. You’ve known this guy for years, are you really going to be able to completely cut him off?

I’m concerned for you because one minute you sound regretful and maybe even remorseful but then other times you sound dismissive. This thread has not been very judgmental as some are claiming. Actually you’ve received a lot of good advice . Telling you what your husband will probably think and ask is not being harsh. That is so you prepare yourself mentally for what his reaction will be. 

A lot has been said about the sexual questions he will pose but you also need to prepare to be there emotionally for him. Seeing your husband, who you think is only going to be mad but instead weeps is going to cut you deeply inside. The complete devastation in his eyes will haunt you because you will know that it was you who caused that. 

Btw, How and why did the affair end? Did OM call it off? Did someone find out and threatened one of you?


----------



## Zedd

PurpleRoses said:


> I will answer the constant call for me to quit my job once. Well guess what? I don't have the type of job you just quit and start somewhere else at the same level. In the real world when you quit you get no unemployment insurance. I don't have time to start a new career. I'm not going to get into what I do, but it isn't something you just quit. We have two kids who will he starting college and lots of other commitments. Quitting would make quite the other mess and no, his salary will not cover our expenses.


I don't think anyone is telling you to quit your job immediately. Take a step back.

What we're saying is you need to be prepared to do so. If your husband says "I'll give you another chance, but you can't see that bag of ****s again," - that means quitting your job. Are you prepared to do that? If you say no because of all the reasons you listed, now your job is more important than your family. He'll think OM is now more important than your family.

You should also be prepared because if your husband is pissed off enough, he could blow you up with your HR department too to get his pound of flesh from the OM.

No one is suggesting you quit just for the sake of quitting. You need to have a plan, is all.

Now, if he says you're getting divorced, then yes, quitting your job would be a horrible thing to do for both you and your family.


----------



## wagon maker

PurpleRoses said:


> I do know why I did it, I'm not a child and I won't pretend I don't know. They aren't good reasons and I regret what I did, I can't take it back, but I know I could have stopped it and I decided not to.


sorry that u find yourself in this situation, u sound like a good person, & u hate that it happened in the first place. who knows if it is right for u to tell your husband, if u decide to tell your husband, if u 2 have had a good marriage so far, & if the affair is truly over, if your husband truly loves u & u him, then he should forgive u & find out what was the reason it happened in the first place & try to correct any problems in your marriage that made u need to stray in the first place & make sure that u 2 communicate completely in the future. most problems arise from lack of communication. i wish u good luck.


----------



## uphillbattle

I don't know why people keep asking about the AP and if he is married. Of course he is married, she is not answered because she knows what you are going to say already. She doesn't want to shake things up at work so she doesn't want to out him to his poor wife whom no doubt he has portrayed her as less than and doesn't deserve to know anyway.
She wishes to think that she is no run of the mill WS. Everyone wants to think they are better than those who have done the exact same thing before.

PR you have tried to act as if certain things are beneath you and how dare some people suggest that you did some things that most WS do. Here are the facts. You are a married woman who enjoyed the attentions of another man. You are a married woman who chose to repeatedly flirt with another man. You are a married woman who repeatedly chose to go to another man's house. You are a married woman who chose to repeatedly kiss another man. You are a married woman who chose to repeatedly take another man's **** inside you. You are a married woman who chose to repeatedly lie to your husband. You now feel bad and wish to tell him of all your CHOICES that you wish to label as a single mistake (you don't wish to tell him because it's the right thing to do but because of how YOU feel). You are the other woman in another poor spouse's marriage but you deny the woman the knowledge she is entitled to so you don't make waves at work for YOU.

Nobody on here claims to be inside your head. But look at the list of choices and reasonings I have just laid out in front of you. From this perspective it looks an awful like you are just another entitled selfish cheater who thinks their feelings in this should matter. YOUR FEELINGS ARE ALL THAT HAVE MATTERED TO YOU UP TO THIS POINT. At some point you should probably start to not act like a garbage human being instead of showing over and over again that you are.

If I'm wrong I would love to hear how.


----------



## VladDracul

PurpleRoses said:


> I do know why I did it, I'm not a child and I won't pretend I don't know. They aren't good reasons and I regret what I did, I can't take it back, but I know I could have stopped it and I decided not to.


Now that's something that doesn't sound like horse shyt. Youre headed in the right direction. Stay on track. I'll just add that the temptation to point out his role in your straying may be great, such as, "I was lonely and you ignored me". Don't do it. Preface it with, "it was my perception, et. cetera, et. cetera." You take responsibility for your thoughts.


----------



## blackclover3

If I was your husband I will never work on the relationship if you still work there. this is just another punch on his face if you say you will not leave your job or transfer immediately. 

when are you planning to tell him?


----------



## Cletus

PurpleRoses said:


> I do know why I did it, I'm not a child and I won't pretend I don't know. They aren't good reasons and I regret what I did, I can't take it back, but I know I could have stopped it and I decided not to.


So then you will have to figure out how to avoid repeating this action in the future. I know you know that, but what I mean is now that you fully understand that you have a significant weakness here, what steps can you take to avoid it again?

I will reiterate - the fact that you feel bad right now isn't enough. Whatever drove you outside your marriage once can do so again unless you manage to overcome your particular demon here. That will only come with time, perhaps counseling, considerable reflection, possibly a failed marriage, and additional personal boundary or coping skills. 

As a wayward spouse, you will have to take time away from eating small children and kicking puppies to work this out - or you will NEVER be good spouse material, for your current or future husbands.


----------



## rugswept

I do think that PR will eventually tell her H.
With the way she has reacted on this thread, I am concerned that she'll be so pushed back when she sees his reaction, whether it be anger, shock and numbess or a near emotional breakdown that the trickle truth and minimizing will begin. Many have said the tough thing for waywards was the sudden hurt they saw in their partner's eyes.

If it is trickle truth and minimizing and more lying, it could easily kill any chance for R.
I can see how tough it must be to admit (or confess) to an A and then have to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I have never seen a wayward say that lying, gaslighting and minimizing ever got them through it. All the BS say they were reset to the starting line, sometimes worse than they were the first time.

I hope PR doesn't fall into those traps. She seems authentic that she does want her H, does love her H and at least gets some of it about how bad it was. The least that happens on DDay is a BS is badly broken. The worst I've heard happen is suicide. That should convince anyone it's really bad what an A can do and to be flippant about the A is where the IC should begin. PR is one of those who justified by thinking it wasn't all that bad. It was bad enough to scar him for life. The BS is always scarred for life. Next to the loss of a child, it appears to be the greatest pain in life.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Galabar01 said:


> I'm still waiting for clarification on the gas lighting. I guess there wasn't any?


I am not going to get sucked too sucked into this. If you can't recognize: hyperbole, assumptions and attempts to create a narrarive reality based on the first two......then fine, but that's what gaslighting is.

The truth is that I don't know how he's going to react and neither do any of you. A non gaslighting answer would be something along the lines of "listen to him and don't make assumptions".....gaslighting would be "he's going to want a DNA test on his children"

Could you imagine dragging your teenage children off for a DNA test while telling them about the awful **** their mother is. It's horrific. It's also not meant to be helpful, it's meant to make me doubt things and feel awful. Im this reality, the children were planned and there is no doubt who the father is. 

Anyways, I am going to tell him tonight when he gets home. I don't know what he's going to say, but all I can do is listen and be remorseful.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

PurpleRoses said:


> I am not going to get sucked too sucked into this. If you can't recognize: hyperbole, assumptions and attempts to create a narrarive reality based on the first two......then fine, but that's what gaslighting is.
> 
> The truth is that I don't know how he's going to react and neither do any of you. A non gaslighting answer would be something along the lines of "listen to him and don't make assumptions".....gaslighting would be "he's going to want a DNA test on his children"
> 
> Could you imagine dragging your teenage children off for a DNA test while telling them about the awful **** their mother is. It's horrific. It's also not meant to be helpful, it's meant to make me doubt things and feel awful. Im this reality, the children were planned and there is no doubt who the father is.
> 
> Anyways, I am going to tell him tonight when he gets home. I don't know what he's going to say, but all I can do is listen and be remorseful.


I know the comments about things like DNA are harsh, but I don't think they are gaslighting. That is just a common occurrence with affairs that involve couples with kids. People are just telling you what they've experience or seen others experience. Your husband is going to question ever single thing he believed about his marriage and that could include the paternity of his kids.


----------



## Lostinthought61

PurpleRoses said:


> I am not going to get sucked too sucked into this. If you can't recognize: hyperbole, assumptions and attempts to create a narrarive reality based on the first two......then fine, but that's what gaslighting is.
> 
> The truth is that I don't know how he's going to react and neither do any of you. A non gaslighting answer would be something along the lines of "listen to him and don't make assumptions".....gaslighting would be "he's going to want a DNA test on his children"
> 
> Could you imagine dragging your teenage children off for a DNA test while telling them about the awful **** their mother is. It's horrific. It's also not meant to be helpful, it's meant to make me doubt things and feel awful. Im this reality, the children were planned and there is no doubt who the father is.
> 
> Anyways, I am going to tell him tonight when he gets home. I don't know what he's going to say, but all I can do is listen and be remorseful.


Please PR, don't tell him in the house, you want to create less triggers for him as possible, go for a walk, go for a ride but do it some where he does not have to relive in his mind the news when he enters that room.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

PurpleRoses said:


> I am not going to get sucked too sucked into this. If you can't recognize: hyperbole, assumptions and attempts to create a narrarive reality based on the first two......then fine, but that's what gaslighting is.
> 
> The truth is that I don't know how he's going to react and neither do any of you. A non gaslighting answer would be something along the lines of "listen to him and don't make assumptions".....gaslighting would be "he's going to want a DNA test on his children"
> 
> Could you imagine dragging your teenage children off for a DNA test while telling them about the awful **** their mother is. It's horrific. It's also not meant to be helpful, it's meant to make me doubt things and feel awful. Im this reality, the children were planned and there is no doubt who the father is.
> 
> Anyways, I am going to tell him tonight when he gets home. I don't know what he's going to say, but all I can do is listen and be remorseful.


Nobody was gaslighting you. As a betrayed spouse, I was telling you the things I thought wanted and needed, as were the other betrayed spouses here. We were only preparing you for what to expect.


----------



## Cletus

Dictum Veritas said:


> Nobody was gaslighting you. As a betrayed spouse, I was telling you the things I thought wanted and needed, as were the other betrayed spouses here. We were only preparing you for what to expect.


By posting a video link to a spouse whose husband committed suicide, you were just "keepin' it real?"

Sorry, but that was textbook gaslighting.


----------



## SRCSRC

Good luck to you. While some of us have been tough on you, I can’t help but feel bad for you and your family. I‘ve been through it and while divorcing my ex-wife was a no-brainer, it has still left scars decades later primarily due to her callous unrepentant revisionist attitude. Hopefully, down the line, the two of you can get back on track whether as committed spouses or successful co-parents.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

Good luck PR. It's not going to be an easy night and I would echo those who say don't do it in the house. You don't want to make your home a trigger of things going forward.


----------



## Fly With Me

Y


PurpleRoses said:


> I am not going to get sucked too sucked into this. If you can't recognize: hyperbole, assumptions and attempts to create a narrarive reality based on the first two......then fine, but that's what gaslighting is.
> 
> The truth is that I don't know how he's going to react and neither do any of you. A non gaslighting answer would be something along the lines of "listen to him and don't make assumptions".....gaslighting would be "he's going to want a DNA test on his children"
> 
> Could you imagine dragging your teenage children off for a DNA test while telling them about the awful **** their mother is. It's horrific. It's also not meant to be helpful, it's meant to make me doubt things and feel awful. Im this reality, the children were planned and there is no doubt who the father is.
> 
> Anyways, I am going to tell him tonight when he gets home. I don't know what he's going to say, but all I can do is listen and be remorseful.


You're doing really well Purple Rose - I'm sure many of us will be sending up a prayer for you all tonight. I will be. Hold on tight. Believe in yourself. The you beneath all the bad choices. You are not defined by this. You've learned who you're not and who you never want to be. You get to create something different and potentially very beautiful from here on out. It's going to be so tough but I believe you have what it takes.


----------



## rugswept

Good luck PR. You're a good person and we do want the road from here to be the one where the pain that will be is reduced as much as it can be and that there really is a future in your M with your H in the best way it can be. Eventually, in my case, we got back to a very good place. A very fulfilling M did come my way.


----------



## Willnotbill

PurpleRoses said:


> I will answer the constant call for me to quit my job once. Well guess what? I don't have the type of job you just quit and start somewhere else at the same level. In the real world when you quit you get no unemployment insurance. I don't have time to start a new career. I'm not going to get into what I do, but it isn't something you just quit. We have two kids who will he starting college and lots of other commitments. Quitting would make quite the other mess and no, his salary will not cover our expenses.
> 
> And what of he does want a divorce? No I'm without my career? Supporting myself how? Or is that just the point? I'm not supposed to be able to do that? Is this supposed to be my punishment?
> 
> The building we work in has 22 floors and an annex. I work in the annex and he works in the other side. You need keycards to enter the floors. It won't be that hard to avoid him. In time, I can look for a transfer if we decide to relocate as a family, but quitting is just about the worst option if we stay married or get divorced. There isn't really much else to say about that.


Wow! Myself and many others here have tried to offer constructive advise to help the OP to try to save her marriage and help her husband through her infidelity. After reading this reply I don't think she has a clue to severity of what she has done and what its going to take to save her marriage. In case the OP is reading this, let me assure you there is NOTHING worse you could do to your husband than to cheat on your him. He is going to be destroyed (that's an understatement as there are no words to describe it) when he learns of it. If you want to have any chance of saving your marriage you need to make sure you have no contact what so ever with your POS AP. Yes he is a POS because he not only knows you are married but he knows your husband. Everything needs to be on the table from your part including leaving your job and even moving to another area. Sadly, I don't believe the OP has what it take to save her marriage after reading her replies.


----------



## Keepin-my-head-up

Another real option is:
Don't tell him.
If this is a true one and done fling, than telling him will only lighten you of your guilt and shame.

Just my opinion and it won't be a popular one


----------



## Rus47

Diana7 said:


> So when are you going to tell him? He already knows something is wrong, goodness knows what he is thinking.


What will be interesting is when Christmas arrives and the boyfriend comes to the house party ( or doesn't ) either would be interesting for the husband


----------



## Rus47

Davit Bek said:


> You make a fair point that quitting given the nature of your job is not a good decision regardless of marital status. It's just that your husband might not accept your continuing to work at the same place as the guy. My suggestion is to be proactive in pretty much everything you can do to minimize any sort of interaction with the guy prior to the reveal so you can tell your husband here are the things that I've done to never run into him. For example "I've asked to work from home for the rest of the year and then I'll put in a transfer". Anything to ease his mind if at all possible, but at least you show a genuine effort. I feel for your husband and children. He's in for some serious pain. Again, best of luck.


What happens if her boyfriend comes to see *her* at the workplace? Over and over. And if she objects, he offers to place a call to her husband and let him in on their "little" secret. There are many ways this thing can turn into a real train wreck. Her not telling her husband doesn't guarantee he won't find out by other means.


----------



## Rus47

Luckylucky said:


> This is what I noticed early on, she really doesn’t blame anyone or offer tired excuses.
> 
> You know what else I notice that stands apart from the other cheater posts? Paragraph after paragraph about their OM/OW, and about a sentence or two about their spouse. Either complaining, blaming or ‘I really love my husband/wife.’ Tacked on somewhere after lengthy descriptions of the AP and every detail about their lives and hair colour or age or attributes. See the difference?
> 
> Have we all noticed she hasn’t even described him? This person is not even on her mind, her focus isn’t even on herself, nor is she dishing out tired pathetic reasons. She repeatedly mentions her husband and hasn’t got nice things to say about herself. Yes she’s probably dodging questions about AP
> and not talking about him because he takes up no space in her world anymore.


Is it possible she avoids details about her boyfriend because she is concerned other eyes ( her husband's?) may identify who he is?


----------



## Galabar01

BigDaddyNY said:


> I know the comments about things like DNA are harsh, but I don't think they are gaslighting. That is just a common occurrence with affairs that involve couples with kids. People are just telling you what they've experience or seen others experience. Your husband is going to question ever single thing he believed about his marriage and that could include the paternity of his kids.


I understand now. She sees gaslighting because of the skewed belief system in her mind. I suppose you could say that she's been gaslighting herself.


----------



## Harold Demure

Okay PurpleRoses, I wish you AND your husband all the best of luck.

There will probably be a whole range of emotions on display when you disclose so personally, I would wait a couple of days before identifying and addressing his reaction.


----------



## SRCSRC

One final word. It would not be a bad idea if there was someone on call that could come over quickly and console your husband if needed. If he wants to leave, tell him that you will leave and that his friend will be coming over to be with him. Do not leave until his friend shows up. Have a bag packed and somewhere to go tonight. Your husband should not be left alone nor should he get behind the wheel of a car. No one knows for certain how he will react, but better prepare for the worst.


----------



## VladDracul

Here's the thing. None of us know if the old boy hadn't got a little strange himself over the years. I hope he has.


----------



## Rus47

VladDracul said:


> Here's the thing. None of us know if the old boy hadn't got a little strange himself over the years. I hope he has.


There was a long thread here awhile ago where the WW was agonizing about telling hubby that she was addicted to sex with some kind of celebrity she was doing as often as she could. When she finally told hubby, his response was "so what else is new?" Her last post after she left home was she figured hubby had been doing a side piece too.


----------



## Harold Demure

You know PurpleRoses, the more I think about this, the more I feel DO NOT TELL HIM if you feel you are able to carry the guilt and not cheat again.

Your husband is coming to a stage in his life where you have put in the hard work of raising your family, your kids are close to flying the nest and you have both job and financial security. This is a time when he should be reaping the rewards of his hard work and moving towards a more relaxed, fun seeking period.

TELL HIM AND ALL THIS GETS BLOWN APART AND YOU BOTH WILL PROBABLY HAVE TO START ALL OVER AGAIN.

Ignorance is bliss for your husband. Why should he have his life torn apart by the actions of a self centred, loathsome sk*nk? For those seeking retribution, I hope you suffer the guilt for the rest of your life.

Never normally give this advice but I am really trying to think of your husband and what is best for him.

There is a risk he will find out way down track but that fear of discovery is something else you will have to live with.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Harold Demure said:


> You know PurpleRoses, the more I think about this, the more I feel DO NOT TELL HIM if you feel you are able to carry the guilt and not cheat again.
> 
> Your husband is coming to a stage in his life where you have put in the hard work of raising your family, your kids are close to flying the nest and you have both job and financial security. This is a time when he should be reaping the rewards of his hard work and moving towards a more relaxed, fun seeking period.
> 
> TELL HIM AND ALL THIS GETS BLOWN APART AND YOU BOTH WILL PROBABLY HAVE TO START ALL OVER AGAIN.
> 
> Ignorance is bliss for your husband. Why should he have his life torn apart by the actions of a self centred, loathsome sk*nk? For those seeking retribution, I hope you suffer the guilt for the rest of your life.
> 
> Never normally give this advice but I am really trying to think of your husband and what is best for him.
> 
> There is a risk he will find out way down track but that fear of discovery is something else you will have to live with.


Would you want to be in a marriage where your SO treated you like an infant and took away your choice as to your future? Would you want a fiction for a partner or a real life partner?

I actually get mad at people advising people to base not only their, but also their partner's future on pure fiction.


----------



## Harold Demure

Dictum, I would normally agree with you 100% but in this case, I just have a gut feeling that blowing up his life is going to be counterproductive. Don’t know how or why I feel this way on this particular case but I just do.

Unfortunately, everything in life is not black and white. My thoughts aren’t about her, I don’t really care for her attitude or sense of entitlement and karma will get her somewhere along the line, but are for his well-being.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Harold Demure said:


> Dictum, I would normally agree with you 100% but in this case, I just have a gut feeling that blowing up his life is going to be counterproductive. Don’t know how or why I feel this way on this particular case but I just do.
> 
> Unfortunately, everything in life is not black and white. My thoughts aren’t about her, I don’t really care for her attitude or sense of entitlement and karma will get her somewhere along the line, but are for his well-being.


Harold, have you not answered your own doubts? Do you wish her on him? He needs to know. He needs to live an honest life.

I have had my life blown apart by infidelity, I don't know your history, but I can infer through your words that you do know that pain (please correct me if I'm wrong). I KNOW that I'd rather face the honest pain than live a lie. I wish nothing less for another man.


----------



## Davit Bek

Rus47 said:


> What happens if her boyfriend comes to see *her* at the workplace? Over and over. And if she objects, he offers to place a call to her husband and let him in on their "little" secret. There are many ways this thing can turn into a real train wreck. Her not telling her husband doesn't guarantee he won't find out by other means.


I think I have worded it poorly. Of course she should tell her husband but I think the husband would feel slightly better if she said I already have arranged my work environment to never see that guy again. So basically she should be proactive in taking steps to absolutely minimize any need to ever see that guy without her husband having to ask for it after the reveal. This would put her husband's mind at ease that at least she won't see him come Monday.


----------



## Davit Bek

PurpleRoses said:


> I am not going to get sucked too sucked into this. If you can't recognize: hyperbole, assumptions and attempts to create a narrarive reality based on the first two......then fine, but that's what gaslighting is.
> 
> The truth is that I don't know how he's going to react and neither do any of you. A non gaslighting answer would be something along the lines of "listen to him and don't make assumptions".....gaslighting would be "he's going to want a DNA test on his children"
> 
> Could you imagine dragging your teenage children off for a DNA test while telling them about the awful **** their mother is. It's horrific. It's also not meant to be helpful, it's meant to make me doubt things and feel awful. Im this reality, the children were planned and there is no doubt who the father is.
> 
> Anyways, I am going to tell him tonight when he gets home. I don't know what he's going to say, but all I can do is listen and be remorseful.


Wish you guys the best of luck. Here is to hoping it all works out. Please keep us posted.


----------



## Rus47

Harold Demure said:


> You know PurpleRoses, the more I think about this, the more I feel DO NOT TELL HIM if you feel you are able to carry the guilt and *not cheat again*.
> 
> Your husband is coming to a stage in his life where you have put in the hard work of raising your family, your kids are close to flying the nest and you have both job and financial security. This is a time when he should be reaping the rewards of his hard work and moving towards a more relaxed, fun seeking period.
> 
> TELL HIM AND ALL THIS GETS BLOWN APART AND YOU BOTH WILL PROBABLY HAVE TO START ALL OVER AGAIN.
> 
> *Ignorance is bliss for your husband*. Why should he have his life torn apart by the actions of a self centred, loathsome sk*nk? For those seeking retribution, I hope you suffer the guilt for the rest of your life.
> 
> Never normally give this advice but I am really trying to think of your husband and what is best for him.
> 
> There is a risk he will find out way down track but that fear of discovery is something else you will have to live with.


The "not cheat again" is humorous. She and her boyfriend work for the same company. She already said she wasn't going to leave that company. Having taken the first bite of the apple with guilt being the only penalty so far, the temptation is going to be to take another bite. The guilt will get less and less with each bite until eventually she will justify it to herself as being not THAT bad, everyone does it.

And if this boyfriend has dumped her, there are more where he came from that already know she is available. My bet is they will be contacting her eventually to see if they might be able to mount a successful offensive.

Bottom line, there is a high likelihood she will cheat on her husband again sooner of later. That is who she is. And sooner or later he will discover the infidelity. Maybe after another two decades, when he is closer to end of life and less able to recover mentally and financially. Which is better for him? To learn now that he isn't in fact married anymore, or after living more years in "blissful ignorance" that he was actually divorced years before?

Which would YOU choose?


----------



## Dictum Veritas

@PurpleRoses , I hope it went better than my imagination paints last night. Please let us know. We are here for support for both yourself and your wounded husband.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Lostinthought61 said:


> Please PR, don't tell him in the house, you want to create less triggers for him as possible, go for a walk, go for a ride but do it some where he does not have to relive in his mind the news when he enters that room.


But don't spring it on him after you go for a walk or a ride either, because then in the future, if you stay together, every time you suggest going for a walk or a ride for fun, he'll be triggered by that and expect terrible news.

There is no good way to make such a revelation.


----------



## uphillbattle

Dictum Veritas said:


> @PurpleRoses , I hope it went better than my imagination paints last night. Please let us know. We are here for support for both yourself and your wounded husband.


Unfortunately I don't think it did, she would be on here by now in her righteous indignation to tell all the haters how wrong they were.


----------



## Diana7

wagon maker said:


> sorry that u find yourself in this situation, u sound like a good person, & u hate that it happened in the first place. who knows if it is right for u to tell your husband, if u decide to tell your husband, if u 2 have had a good marriage so far, & if the affair is truly over, if your husband truly loves u & u him, then he should forgive u & find out what was the reason it happened in the first place & try to correct any problems in your marriage that made u need to stray in the first place & make sure that u 2 communicate completely in the future. most problems arise from lack of communication. i wish u good luck.


She didn't need to stray and it's not the fault of her husband or the marriage that she did.


----------



## uphillbattle

wagon maker said:


> sorry that u find yourself in this situation, u sound like a good person, & u hate that it happened in the first place. who knows if it is right for u to tell your husband, if u decide to tell your husband, if u 2 have had a good marriage so far, & if the affair is truly over, if your husband truly loves u & u him, then he should forgive u & *find out what was the reason it happened in the first place & try to correct any problems in your marriage that made u need to stray in the first place* & make sure that u 2 communicate completely in the future. most problems arise from lack of communication. i wish u good luck.


Her urge to suck a **** is the problem in her marriage that caused her to cheat. The problem is with the cheater. Any problems were made null and void the second this choice was made. The BS didn't make the decision to go outside the marriage.


----------



## Casual Observer

uphillbattle said:


> Unfortunately I don't think it did, she would be on here by now in her righteous indignation to tell all the haters how wrong they were.


Shes been gone for two days … so it probably didn’t go well. It’s not something we should be patting ourselves on the back for though, saying we warned her, we knew it would turn out differently than she thought. If we can’t be sympathetic towards her, we should at least be thinking about her husband and what he must be going through, in an empathetic manner. Empathy is the missing ingredient in many posts here, including my own sometimes.


----------



## uphillbattle

Casual Observer said:


> Shes been gone for two days … so it probably didn’t go well. It’s not something we should be patting ourselves on the back for though, saying we warned her, we knew it would turn out differently than she thought. If we can’t be sympathetic towards her, we should at least be thinking about her husband and what he must be going through, in an empathetic manner. Empathy is the missing ingredient in many posts here, including my own sometimes.


I'm definitely not patting myself on the back. I made no predictions. I merely tried to point out her selfish frame of mind and suggested pretty strongly(ok maybe a bit more than a suggestion) she tone that down or else she is what the others accuse her of being. 

I honestly don't think overall she is a bad person. I she just had a downward spiral of selfishness and hasn't come out of it yet. I do wish her the best. More importantly I wish the best for her husband who just got stabbed right through the back. He has most likely had the worst 2 days of his entire life. I hope he in the end is every bit as strong and steady as VR.

If it went the way she had it built it up in her head she just seems to be the type to gloat. Was all I was saying in my post.


----------



## CrAzYdOgLaDy

Hope you are ok? Have you told him? There is another lady on here who was unfaithful to her husband, and was ripped apart by others who have been through infidelity. She took in all their responses, advice and she is now working things out with her husband. She updates regularly with her and her husbands journey, the good and the bad. Many in here have been through the same as your husband (men and women) and can help you understand the trauma your husband is dealing with. You will also get good advice to help you/you both through this. Hope you will come back and let us know you are ok. 

When you walk through a storm
Hold your head up high
And don't be afraid of the dark


YNWA


----------



## PurpleRoses

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> Hope you are ok? Have you told him? There is another lady on here who was unfaithful to her husband, and was ripped apart by others who have been through infidelity. She took in all their responses, advice and she is now working things out with her husband. She updates regularly with her and her husbands journey, the good and the bad. Many in here have been through the same as your husband (men and women) and can help you understand the trauma your husband is dealing with. You will also get good advice to help you/you both through this. Hope you will come back and let us know you are ok.
> 
> When you walk through a storm
> Hold your head up high
> And don't be afraid of the dark
> 
> 
> YNWA


I'm ok I guess. I did tell him and it was a difficult weekend. He didn't really get angry with me. He's mostly shocked and disappointed in me. He had a hard time believing it. And no matter what I say he keeps wanting to blame himself, it always comes back to that. He didn't kick me out or call me any names. We spent the weekend together and he wants a lot of physical contact like holding hands and putting his arm over me when we went to bed. We only talked about the affiar the first night for the most part. He's very upset about it, but is still being himself and trying to make me laugh. He's worried about me, it makes me feel guilty that he's worried about how I'm feeling but that's just the way he is. He still loves me, but a lot of trust has been broken and I don't know if he will ever trust me again like he did.

He's picking up the kids right now and he doesn't want any hint dropped to them.


----------



## GusPolinski

PurpleRoses said:


> I'm ok I guess. I did tell him and it was a difficult weekend. He didn't really get angry with me. He's mostly shocked and disappointed in me. He had a hard time believing it. And no matter what I say he keeps wanting to blame himself, it always comes back to that. He didn't kick me out or call me any names. We spent the weekend together and he wants a lot of physical contact like holding hands and putting his arm over me when we went to bed. We only talked about the affiar the first night for the most part. He's very upset about it, but is still being himself and trying to make me laugh. He's worried about me, it makes me feel guilty that he's worried about how I'm feeling but that's just the way he is. He still loves me, but a lot of trust has been broken and I don't know if he will ever trust me again like he did.
> 
> He's picking up the kids right now and he doesn't want any hint dropped to them.


The anger will come.

Have you made preparations to leave your job yet?


----------



## uphillbattle

GusPolinski said:


> The anger will come.
> 
> *Have you made preparations to leave your job yet?*


This in the end is still more up to her husband, not a 100%.


----------



## PurpleRoses

uphillbattle said:


> This in the end is still more up to her husband, not a 100%.


Yeah, he never even vaguely alluded to this as being something on his mind.


----------



## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> I'm ok I guess. I did tell him and it was a difficult weekend. He didn't really get angry with me. He's mostly shocked and disappointed in me. He had a hard time believing it. And no matter what I say he keeps wanting to blame himself, it always comes back to that. He didn't kick me out or call me any names. We spent the weekend together and he wants a lot of physical contact like holding hands and putting his arm over me when we went to bed. We only talked about the affiar the first night for the most part. He's very upset about it, but is still being himself and trying to make me laugh. He's worried about me, it makes me feel guilty that he's worried about how I'm feeling but that's just the way he is. He still loves me, but a lot of trust has been broken and I don't know if he will ever trust me again like he did.
> 
> He's picking up the kids right now and he doesn't want any hint dropped to them.


DId you tell him the name of your boyfriend? Is he fine with you continuing to work in same company?

Maybe it isnt a big deal for your husband even though for many men it would be huge.


----------



## GusPolinski

uphillbattle said:


> This in the end is still more up to her husband, not a 100%.


She’d be wise to do everything she can — and as early as she can — to demonstrate to her husband that she’s not only willing to go 100% NC with OM but that she wants to do so. Since OM is a co-worker, leaving her job will go a long way toward accomplishing that.

Once her BS comes out of his initial shock, he’s going to start asking a lot more questions than he is now, and if she’s not made moves to leave her job by that point, he’s going to suspect ongoing contact with OM.


----------



## GusPolinski

PurpleRoses said:


> Yeah, he never even vaguely alluded to this as being something on his mind.


Get ready. It’s coming.

Recovery can take yeeeaaarrrrrs.


----------



## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> I'm ok I guess. I did tell him and it was a difficult weekend. He didn't really get angry with me. He's mostly shocked and disappointed in me. He had a hard time believing it. And no matter what I say he keeps wanting to blame himself, it always comes back to that. He didn't kick me out or call me any names. We spent the weekend together and he wants a lot of physical contact like holding hands and putting his arm over me when we went to bed. We only talked about the affiar the first night for the most part. He's very upset about it, but is still being himself and trying to make me laugh. He's worried about me, it makes me feel guilty that he's worried about how I'm feeling but that's just the way he is. He still loves me, but a lot of trust has been broken and I don't know if he will ever trust me again like he did.
> 
> He's picking up the kids right now and he doesn't want any hint dropped to them.


What does he blame himself for? Why would he blame himself? Does he have a submissive personality?


----------



## Rus47

GusPolinski said:


> She’d be wise to do everything she can — and as early as she can — to demonstrate to her husband that she’s not only willing to go 100% NC with OM but that she wants to do so. Since OM is a co-worker, leaving her job will go a long way toward accomplishing that.
> 
> Once her BS comes out of his initial shock, he’s going to start asking a lot more questions than he is now, and if she’s not made moves to leave her job by that point, he’s going to suspect ongoing contact with OM.


I think we are judging her husband based on typical male reactions. Him blaming himself by default indicates she may be able to ride through this with no consequences at all. Her husband may be submissive.

She may be able to have her cake and eat it too.


----------



## GusPolinski

Rus47 said:


> I think we are judging her husband based on typical male reactions. Him blaming himself by default indicates she may be able to ride through this with no consequences at all. Her husband may be submissive.


That will make the anger all the more unpredictable.

It’s coming either way.


----------



## uphillbattle

PurpleRoses said:


> Yeah, he never even vaguely alluded to this as being something on his mind.


That doesn't mean it won't come up. You should be prepared. Don't take it out on him if he does.


----------



## uphillbattle

Rus47 said:


> I think we are judging her husband based on typical male reactions. Him blaming himself by default indicates she may be able to ride through this with no consequences at all. Her husband may be submissive.
> 
> She may be able to have her cake and eat it too.


At this point it is entirely up to him. His reactions are his own, nobody else can tell him how he should take it, only how YOU would take it. If he can live with it than he can.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

He's in shock. That will wear off.


----------



## sideways

He may just decide to rugsweep this because he doesn’t want to face it.


----------



## GusPolinski

sideways said:


> He may just decide to rugsweep this because he doesn’t want to face it.


Rugsweeping never lasts — eventually you start tripping over the rug.


----------



## HappilyMarried1

PurpleRoses said:


> I'm ok I guess. I did tell him and it was a difficult weekend. He didn't really get angry with me. He's mostly shocked and disappointed in me. He had a hard time believing it. And no matter what I say he keeps wanting to blame himself, it always comes back to that. He didn't kick me out or call me any names. We spent the weekend together and he wants a lot of physical contact like holding hands and putting his arm over me when we went to bed. We only talked about the affiar the first night for the most part. He's very upset about it, but is still being himself and trying to make me laugh. He's worried about me, it makes me feel guilty that he's worried about how I'm feeling but that's just the way he is. He still loves me, but a lot of trust has been broken and I don't know if he will ever trust me again like he did.
> 
> He's picking up the kids right now and he doesn't want any hint dropped to them.


Good job of telling him. Be prepared he will have mood swings and probably more questions. Did you take the advice and tell him everything and answers all of his questions honestly and completely? No trickle truth's to try in your own mind not to hurt him?

Be prepared after some more time to think and process you very well may start to get questions like: Is he a better lover than me? Is he bigger than me? Did you do things with him that you won't do or try with me? Just want you to be prepared. You got the first and hardest part over with stay strong and be there for him especially if he just wants to vent. Best of luck!


----------



## PurpleRoses

HappilyMarried1 said:


> Good job of telling him. Be prepared he will have mood swings and probably more questions. Did you take the advice and tell him everything and answers all of his questions honestly and completely? No trickle truth's to try in your own mind not to hurt him?
> 
> Be prepared after some more time to think and process you very well may start to get questions like: Is he a better lover than me? Is he bigger than me? Did you do things with him that you won't do or try with me? Just want you to be prepared. You got the first and hardest part over with stay strong and be there for him especially if he just wants to vent. Best of luck!


I answered everything that I could and there were some very difficult questions. I'm trying to be understanding. It's just really difficult.


----------



## Luckylucky

PurpleRoses said:


> I answered everything that I could and there were some very difficult questions. I'm trying to be understanding. It's just really difficult.


I can imagine it’s difficult, well, that big step is over, how’s the anxiety?

What do you mean by ‘trying to be understanding’? Is that something you’re struggling with?


----------



## SRCSRC

I have read many of these accounts and there are a number of betrayed men who seem to suck it up and are just willing to accept the entire mess and move on. Not to say your road will be peaches and creme going forward, but it looks like initially that your husband would rather rug sweep the entire mess and even accept blame. If he lets you off the hook by not forcing you to leave your job, reveal your boyfriend's identity to him or force you to notify his significant other, you are especially fortunate. I hope you do not betray him again. While you are adamant that you won't, you once felt that you could never cheat on your husband. Looks like you dodged a bullet, though your husband will shoulder the hurt forever. Please don't betray him again. You need to spend the rest of your marriage making it up to him.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

Personally purple, I think you should confess to the kids( age appropriately of course). He has enough on his plate without carrying the burden of keeping this from them. They are sure to find out once the fallout of the affair starts to happen. Kids aren't stupid btw, they will know something is wrong..


----------



## Luckylucky

Tested_by_stress said:


> Personally purple, I think you should confess to the kids( age appropriately of course). He has enough on his plate without carrying the burden of keeping this from them. They are sure to find out once the fallout of the affair starts to happen. Kids aren't stupid btw, they will know something is wrong..


That part broke my heart a little, he doesn’t want to hurt the kids, doesn’t want to hurt his wife. 😩 Doesn’t want to have people think the worst of him. He’s carrying all the shame, poor guy. 😥


----------



## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> I'm ok I guess. I did tell him and it was a difficult weekend. He didn't really get angry with me. He's mostly shocked and disappointed in me. He had a hard time believing it. And no matter what I say he keeps wanting to blame himself, it always comes back to that. He didn't kick me out or call me any names. We spent the weekend together and he wants a lot of physical contact like holding hands and putting his arm over me when we went to bed. We only talked about the affiar the first night for the most part. He's very upset about it, but is still being himself and trying to make me laugh. He's worried about me, it makes me feel guilty that he's worried about how I'm feeling but that's just the way he is. He still loves me, but a lot of trust has been broken and I don't know if he will ever trust me again like he did.
> 
> He's picking up the kids right now and he doesn't want any hint dropped to them.


There are two really different themes here. One, that he blames himself. Second, that trust has been broken and you’re not sure it can be restored. The second theme, broken trust, is not something he can rationalize his way out of, as he’s trying to do by taking blame for causing it.

He’s a hot mess right now. Remember how hard it was for you, keeping the secret of the affair from him? Imagine what it’s like for him right now. He’s keeping it to himself and that can destroy him. He needs independent 3rd party validation that, however he feels now, it’s understandable and that he needs to reclaim agency.

Hes going to be going through cycles of emotional (and sexual) hysterical bonding, as will you, and mistakenly believe that’s indicative of a positive future.

You’ve taken the right first step, by telling him you had an affair. Now you need to do everything you can to not minimize it, to answer the questions he appears too scared to ask.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Luckylucky said:


> I can imagine it’s difficult, well, that big step is over, how’s the anxiety?
> 
> What do you mean by ‘trying to be understanding’? Is that something you’re struggling with?


I'm not as anxious in general. I sort of wish he would come home, but he's probably just watching the football game with his dad. 

I mean trying, because I don't know how it would have affected me. I think I would have been a lot more angry though. I could have understood that easier I think.


----------



## HappilyMarried1

PurpleRoses said:


> I answered everything that I could and there were some very difficult questions. I'm trying to be understanding. It's just really difficult.


Just be prepared there will probably be plenty more questions to come over the next several days just be patient and honest.


----------



## Galabar01

Casual Observer said:


> Shes been gone for two days … so it probably didn’t go well. It’s not something we should be patting ourselves on the back for though, saying we warned her, we knew it would turn out differently than she thought. If we can’t be sympathetic towards her, we should at least be thinking about her husband and what he must be going through, in an empathetic manner. Empathy is the missing ingredient in many posts here, including my own sometimes.


I think the best thing we could have done (and did do) was convince her to tell her husband.


----------



## GusPolinski

Luckylucky said:


> That part broke my heart a little, he doesn’t want to hurt the kids, doesn’t want to hurt his wife. 😩 Doesn’t want to have people think the worst of him. He’s carrying all the shame, poor guy. 😥


Yep.

Sucks sometimes but we tell ourselves it’s what we signed up for. 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## GusPolinski

PurpleRoses said:


> I'm not as anxious in general. I sort of wish he would come home, but he's probably just watching the football game with his dad.
> 
> I mean trying, because I don't know how it would have affected me. I think I would have been a lot more angry though. I could have understood that easier I think.


How is his parents’ marriage?


----------



## Luckylucky

Give him all the physical contact he needs right now, he sounds like a darling person. Hope your family is ok and you can weather the bumps. Life throws all sorts of storms, we forget sometimes how good it’s supposed to be but it’s not it. It’s a lot of crap with some good moments thrown in. Give him some good moments.


----------



## Evinrude58

Luckylucky said:


> Give him all the physical contact he needs right now, he sounds like a darling person. Hope your family is ok and you can weather the bumps. Life throws all sorts of storms, we forget sometimes how good it’s supposed to be but it’s not it. It’s a lot of crap with some good moments thrown in. Give him some good moments.


Sounds like a man in shock and not clearly thinking YET. When he realizes who he’s married is not who he thought, yes he will be angry.


----------



## SRCSRC

Evinrude58: He probably is in shock, but the fact that he is blaming himself even when the WW says he did nothing wrong and should not assume any responsibility for her actions makes me think that we will quickly swallow what happened and move on. It will be a rollercoaster, but my gut tells me he will rug sweep and not have the WW do much of anything. Her begging for forgiveness might be enough. Who knows, maybe she will be a model wife until she dies from this point forward. She should spend the rest of the marriage doing just that. But we have so little information to go on. Good luck to her husband. If he can bury what happened and have a good marriage from this point forward, good for him. I couldn't do it. I tried and it got me nowhere except six more years of hell.


----------



## Harold Demure

Seems to me that, as things stand, this huge weight has been lifted from the wife's shoulders and has been dumped on the husband. His actions may not show his hurt etc but, OP, you have mentally destroyed your husband for the rest of his life whilst you get away with your sordid little affair scot free as you rationalise your guilt over years to come.

If this is the outcome, still think it was the right thing to do to tell him?

What a nasty piece of work you are. Spoilt goods.


----------



## Casual Observer

Luckylucky said:


> Give him all the physical contact he needs right now, he sounds like a darling person. Hope your family is ok and you can weather the bumps. Life throws all sorts of storms, we forget sometimes how good it’s supposed to be but it’s not it. It’s a lot of crap with some good moments thrown in. Give him some good moments.


Don’t agree with this; it sounds like emotional bonding and could lead to him feeling manipulated and confused. Give him time. Yes, do as he requests but don’t take advantage of his weaknesses. Sex is not the cure for infidelity.


----------



## Luckylucky

Casual Observer said:


> Don’t agree with this; it sounds like emotional bonding and could lead to him feeling manipulated and confused. Give him time. Yes, do as he requests but don’t take advantage of his weaknesses. Sex is not the cure for infidelity.


He needs what he needs now, it’s his journey and his job to decide when he needs to feel weak and strong. He’s confused now but it will benefit him to learn what manipulation is, what fear is, what strength is. I’m glad he’s asking for what he needs, and right now it sounds like he needs hugs.


----------



## Luckylucky

Evinrude58 said:


> Sounds like a man in shock and not clearly thinking YET. When he realizes who he’s married is not who he thought, yes he will be angry.


Oh absolutely he’s in shock (never a good time to make decisions or act). Gotta go though what he’s gotta go through. He’s in survival mode now.


----------



## Fly With Me

Casual Observer said:


> Don’t agree with this; it sounds like emotional bonding and could lead to him feeling manipulated and confused. Give him time. Yes, do as he requests but don’t take advantage of his weaknesses. Sex is not the cure for infidelity.



Sex is the cure for a LOT in relationships. He will most likely need to reclaim what's his. I think hysterical bonding is a really good thing. You need more than that to repair and restore the relationship but it's really good fun and really good glue.

Well done for telling him Purple! He sounds anxiously attached and like a nice guy. And it sounds like part of you hoped he would get angry. I used to (unconsciously) behave badly to try and make my husband angry cause i knew he was deep down and i wanted to draw that side of him out. Maybe part of the (unconscious)reason for your affair was to get his attention and wake him up

Might be worth suggesting he gets some counselling and maybe get him a copy of no more mr nice guy. If he really starts to get hold of it it just might be the best thing that's ever happened to your relationship. 

Sending you lots of love in this next stage. Enjoy the hysterical bonding and dont let him talk you into believing it is his fault. Push hard for both of you to get counselling so this becomes the catalyst for the relstionship you want and beauty comes out of the ashes.

Thankyou for coming back and telling us what happened.


----------



## Harold Demure

Wow, Fly With Me, it almost sounds like you are congratulating her for having the affair. 

There is NOTHING to congratulate her for in any part of what she has done. 

Try having some compassion for her husband, you know, the one she betrayed and has destroyed.


----------



## Fly With Me

Harold Demure said:


> Wow, Fly With Me, it almost sounds like you are congratulating her for having the affair.
> 
> There is NOTHING to congratulate her for in any part of what she has done.
> 
> Try having some compassion for her husband, you know, the one she betrayed and has destroyed.


What she has done is awful and nothing will ever make it ok. I've said that to her previously. She knows that.

It sounds like her husband might rugsweep cause he is a nice guy. I don't think that will be good for purple or him.

I know good can come from this because good has come from my husband's emotional affair. Doesn't mean it was ok. Doesn't mean he couldnt have done it differently. Doesn't mean I don't still struggle.

I am congratulating her for being honest and taking the first step towards an honest relationship. I am encouraging her to keep going and not let her husband rugsweep.


----------



## Rus47

Luckylucky said:


> That part broke my heart a little, he doesn’t want to hurt the kids, doesn’t want to hurt his wife. 😩 Doesn’t want to have people think the worst of him. He’s carrying all the shame, poor guy. 😥


I guess there are people who take responsibility and blame that isn't theirs. So what everyone told PR about how things would go were wrong, and she can gloat about that. She is forgiven for everything, didn't even need to ask and can go do whatever she feels like in life. Her husband will tolerate whatever she chooses to send his way. And, any guilt she had will disappear because her husband took the blame for her affair. Next time will be easier with less guilt. The karma bus won't ever arrive at her house.


----------



## Rus47

Evinrude58 said:


> Sounds like a man in shock and not clearly thinking YET. When he realizes who he’s married is not who he thought, yes he will be angry.


What if he is what some refer to as a "simp"?


----------



## Rus47

Fly With Me said:


> What she has done is awful and nothing will ever make it ok. I've said that to her previously. She knows that.
> 
> It sounds like her husband might rugsweep cause he is a nice guy. I don't think that will be good for purple or him.
> 
> I know good can come from this because good has come from my husband's emotional affair. Doesn't mean it was ok. Doesn't mean he couldnt have done it differently. Doesn't mean I don't still struggle.
> 
> I am congratulating her for being honest and taking the first step towards an honest relationship. I am encouraging her to keep going and not let her husband rugsweep.


Did you accept blame for your husbands EA when you found out? Did he have to convince you it wasn't your fault? Did he not let you rugsweep?

Taking responsibility for being cheated on just seems such a foreign concept. Surely most cheaters blame their infidelity on the one they betray. No different than an abuser telling the person they just hit "look what you made me do". See that on other threads by wayward spouses "What I did was wrong, and I feel guilty BUT he/she wasn't there for me.


----------



## Fly With Me

I am not quite sure what you are asking me. I'm responsible for what I did wrong in my marriage. My husband is responsible for what he did wrong. I think it is healthy to take responsibility for my actions. It is unhealthy to take responsibiity for my husband's. I did rugsweep initially and took all the responsibility. I am getting to a better place now.

Purple has to take responsibility for her affair and every other harmful action she took in her marriage. She can't blame her husband for her affair. She hasn't done so far. The affair is in no way his fault. (He will have actions he took that he will need to own)

Blame is unhealthy. Personal responsibility and ownership are good. 

It's not his fault he was cheated on. That's on purple. And she knows that. 



Rus47 said:


> Did you accept blame for your husbands EA when you found out? Did he have to convince you it wasn't your fault? Did he not let you rugsweep?
> 
> Taking responsibility for being cheated on just seems such a foreign concept. Surely most cheaters blame their infidelity on the one they betray. No different than an abuser telling the person they just hit "look what you made me do". See that on other threads by wayward spouses "What I did was wrong, and I feel guilty BUT he/she wasn't there for me.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Casual Observer said:


> Don’t agree with this; it sounds like emotional bonding and could lead to him feeling manipulated and confused. Give him time. Yes, do as he requests but don’t take advantage of his weaknesses. Sex is not the cure for infidelity.


I say give him anything and everything he wants at this point. It is entirely up to him.


----------



## Robert22205

When you were cheated on were their kids involved?

Can you share what you said to him? It would be helpful to others to share your experience.

Your husband's reaction is just beginning. Experience shows it takes 2-5 years to recover. And often divorce occurs in years 2-3. 

I suggest you be proactive to prove to him that you are a safe partner going forward. And please don't base your plan on a promise to not cheat or hurt him again. He won't believe you. He will not see your confession as something that makes you trustworthy but rather something you did for yourself. 

There are concrete things you can do that he can physically observe (separate from you promises).

I hope you had the chance to read the 2 books I recommended. I think I also recommended you google: PTSD.

A typical initial response to trauma is for the BS to minimize the pain some way (including denial). He's currently telling himself that it's not too bad and he can get through this/suck it up for the kids - that nothing has changed he still has a wife and kids (his initial focus is to protect the kids). 

Although he's been gut shot, he's ignoring his pain (for now) and trying to maintain family harmony in order to protect his kids. 

Your husband will cycle through phases. Be prepared for him to repeatedly break down asking why. And be prepared for a lot of repressed anger to surface. Maybe this week or maybe next year. But it's not over.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Robert22205 said:


> When you were cheated on were their kids involved?
> 
> Can you share what you said to him? It would be helpful to others to share your experience.
> 
> Your husband's reaction is just beginning. Experience shows it takes 2-5 years to recover. And often divorce occurs in years 2-3.
> 
> I suggest you be proactive to prove to him that you are a safe partner going forward. And please don't base your plan on a promise to not cheat or hurt him again. He won't believe you. He will not see your confession as something that makes you trustworthy but rather something you did for yourself.
> 
> There are concrete things you can do that he can physically observe (separate from you promises).
> 
> I hope you had the chance to read the 2 books I recommended. I think I also recommended you google: PTSD.
> 
> A typical initial response to trauma is for the BS to minimize the pain some way (including denial). He's currently telling himself that it's not too bad and he can get through this/suck it up for the kids - that nothing has changed he still has a wife and kids (his initial focus is to protect the kids).
> 
> Although he's been gut shot, he's ignoring his pain (for now) and trying to maintain family harmony in order to protect his kids.
> 
> Your husband will cycle through phases. Be prepared for him to repeatedly break down asking why. And be prepared for a lot of repressed anger to surface. Maybe this week or maybe next year. But it's not over.


I don't know if you're asking me, but I have never cheated on, not even when I was dating before we met. I don't really know what it feels like at all. 

I also, don't think he is ignoring his pain. He just expresses it differently. We talked well into the early morning on Friday about and and spent most of Saturday laying in bed. I don't think it's easy in a lot of ways for him, and it effects relationships that go beyond just ours. There is nothing simple about it and he isn't a wimp for not berating me or throwing me out on the street. 

I didn't get away with anything either. I have some pretty awful realities to face and I'm not even sure how I'm going to do it.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't know if you're asking me, but I have never cheated on, not even when I was dating before we met. I don't really know what it feels like at all.
> 
> I also, don't think he is ignoring his pain. He just expresses it differently. We talked well into the early morning on Friday about and and spent most of Saturday laying in bed. I don't think it's easy in a lot of ways for him, and it effects relationships that go beyond just ours. There is nothing simple about it and he isn't a wimp for not berating me or throwing me out on the street.
> 
> I didn't get away with anything either. I have some pretty awful realities to face and I'm not even sure how I'm going to do it.


Just hang in there and follow his lead for now. It is going to take him a while to process everything. I wish your family the best.


----------



## Gabriel

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't know if you're asking me, but I have never cheated on, not even when I was dating before we met. I don't really know what it feels like at all.
> 
> I also, don't think he is ignoring his pain. He just expresses it differently. We talked well into the early morning on Friday about and and spent most of Saturday laying in bed. I don't think it's easy in a lot of ways for him, and it effects relationships that go beyond just ours. There is nothing simple about it and he isn't a wimp for not berating me or throwing me out on the street.
> 
> I didn't get away with anything either. I have some pretty awful realities to face and I'm not even sure how I'm going to do it.


What realities? What is left for you to deal with?

Guessing your H will get angry the more he thinks and the more this sinks in. In your shoes, I would walk on eggshells for awhile and be very subservient to what he needs and wants. If he needs space, give him space. If he needs sex, give him sex. Etc.


----------



## Blondilocks

There is another explanation for why he's feeling guilty: he has had an affair or is involved in one. I do think he is in shock.


----------



## sideways

Your husband has been blindsided.

Absolutely he's in shock and more than likely denial.

Right now he's just trying to make sense of all this as he obviously had you up on a pedestal. Blindly trusting you and believing that you of all people would have his back and would NEVER betray him.

Well he's now learned that this wasn't the case. He's fixated in on this being his fault because if he believes it's your fault then he'll have to face something that he does NOT want to face. How does he move forward with you as his wife?

If it's his fault he can try to fix himself, but as we all know, again he's in denial, and going down that road is an exercise in futility.

Sounds like he's going to rug sweep this, but as the reality of the situation becomes more real he could go in numerous directions.

He's definitely started the grieving process and at some point he's going to enter the anger stage. Will it be directed at you? Himself? Both of you? Only time will tell.

I also think being told to "enjoy the hysterical bonding" is utter BS!!

Yes please do and remember the only reason it's happening is because you betrayed your husband by having sex with another man and you've F'd your husband's head up and stabbed a knife in his back and more importantly in his heart and he doesn't know what to do and by doing this (HB) he's desperately trying to make sense of all this.

When your done having sex with him, and he rolls over, just know the reality will SMACK him in the face that you were doing this (having sex) with another man and knowing this is just ANOTHER knife stabbed into his heart.

Yes you told him. Good for you. However moving forward it means NOTHING as to how this will play out.

Is it ultimately a deal breaker to your husband?

Will he ultimately see you as a safe partner?

Is he willing to attempt reconciliation or will he just rug sweep this?

You have a LONG road in front of you and you being employed where your OM is will only put your husband in a horrible place mentally. Will he voice this to you? Who knows.

Only time will tell if you're truly remorseful or just having regrets.


----------



## jsmart

Luckylucky said:


> That part broke my heart a little, he doesn’t want to hurt the kids, doesn’t want to hurt his wife. 😩 Doesn’t want to have people think the worst of him. He’s carrying all the shame, poor guy. 😥


I too am saddened by this. He feels totally emasculated so he’s doesn’t want his kids to see him as weak or less of a man but that is what he’s feeling like. We men tend to take responsibility for marital failures, and think we can “fix it” ourselves. I really hope that purple, reads the recommended books to guide her helping heal her husband. 

The reaching out to touch her, is him wanting to reclaim his wife from her OM. This is where he can end up appearing needy to his WW. The emasculation that he feels is apt to make him clingy, which can turn off his WW. Everyone here knows how weakness turns women off even if she’s the cause of it. I suspect she’s currently at the “I love you but not in love with you” level with her husband. 

I agree with @Tested_by_stress that she should confess to their nearly adult kids that she betrayed their father. That way they not only know that their mother betrayed the family but what their father is enduring to keep the family together. Also, don’t wait for her husband to ask about a no contact letter that he pre-approves before she sends it, writes a timeline that details the affair, and bring up the job. Is he ok with her continuing to work at the scene of the crime, knowing her OM still works there. Just because he hasn’t brought up the things we’ve advised purple about, doesn’t mean he’s not thinking about it and that it won’t come up.


----------



## Harold Demure

I would be more worried by him not showing anger or resentment if I were you because we have seen posts on here where the betrayed spouse has

- told the wayward spouse after 5 years that he was going to have a revenge affair and let her know all the details in its planning

- had the wayward spouse served (often at work) with divorce papers some time after the affair

- exposed the affair to HR to get both cheaters fired some time after the affair and after any financial separation has taken place

- waited until children have grown and left home and then filed for divorce

- gone into deep depression and tried/contemplated suicide.

How often did we have the wayward spouse say that they didn’t see the above coming because they thought everything was better and because their betrayed spouse had got over it?

How often did we have the wayward spouse say that their betrayed spouse would never do that to them, ignoring the fact that, say in your case, you would have said you wouldn’t have opened your legs for a stranger?

You haven’t got SOME pretty awful realities to face, you have got a LIFETIME of pretty awful realities to face, one of the worse of which is that you will never be able to relax - as we have seen a lot of times on here, once the wayward spouse becomes complacent then …….

However, I don’t think that is the worse reality you have to face - that will be when your kids find out and also see what you have done to their father, your husband. The worse for you will be that look of contempt on their faces.

Do you still think you did the right thing by telling him, dumping all your guilt on him, destroying him emotionally? Why didn’t you just keep this to yourself and carried the guilty alone for your actions? Telling him or not, I think you will cheat again, despite any empty reassurance you may give.


----------



## EdDean

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't know if you're asking me, but I have never cheated on, not even when I was dating before we met. I don't really know what it feels like at all.
> 
> I also, don't think he is ignoring his pain. He just expresses it differently. We talked well into the early morning on Friday about and and spent most of Saturday laying in bed. I don't think it's easy in a lot of ways for him, and it effects relationships that go beyond just ours. There is nothing simple about it and he isn't a wimp for not berating me or throwing me out on the street.
> 
> I didn't get away with anything either. I have some pretty awful realities to face and I'm not even sure how I'm going to do it.
> 
> Hello PR. I’m so sorry you and your husband are going through this. I think your husband is in shock. I don’t more figuratively, I mean he is literally in a state of NeuroPsychiatric dissociation. This is very dangerous time for him. He needs your empathy and help in the worst way right now. He also needs help from a counselor who is trained in betrayal trauma and PTSD. I hope you two are talking about getting into counseling. Please do not pick some random generic MC who will immediately try to dive into “the root causes” of the problem. There will be time for that later. Right now he needs experienced help in stabilizing his whole neurological system and Psyche. You’re probably going to have to be the one who researches this and helps him get the care he needs. This is your role now. You are his wife, his friend, and his nurse for the foreseeable future. Good luck.


----------



## QuietRiot

Rus47 said:


> Taking responsibility for being cheated on just seems such a foreign concept. Surely most cheaters blame their infidelity on the one they betray. No different than an abuser telling the person they just hit "look what you made me do". See that on other threads by wayward spouses "What I did was wrong, and I feel guilty BUT he/she wasn't there for me.


Its pretty common for a betrayed spouse to accept the responsibility for being cheated on. It’s much easier to fix something that we have control over, and we have control over ourselves, not our betrayer. This is why people think they can “nice” a person back. And hysterically screw them into loyalty. He has found out about the affair less than a handful of days ago, it will take time to work through emotions. At some point I’m sure he will hit every one.

The level of devastation and hurt is enormous, it’s not something that can be fully understood until it is actually experienced. What he is feeling now is just the beginning.


----------



## RebuildingMe

Blondilocks said:


> There is another explanation for why he's feeling guilty: he has had an affair or is involved in one. I do think he is in shock.


Where did you come up with this? He's been cheated on and your reaction is he is doing the same?


----------



## re16

Blondilocks said:


> There is another explanation for why he's feeling guilty: he has had an affair or is involved in one. I do think he is in shock.


I was thinking the exact same thing, when they don't freak out about it happening to them, it could be because they feel they deserve it for what they've done in the past. Not saying its for sure, but there is definetly a chance with this type of reaction.

His reaction wasn't the one most of us expected, that is for sure.


----------



## Blondilocks

RebuildingMe said:


> Where did you come up with this? He's been cheated on and your reaction is he is doing the same?


I knew someone would accuse me of man-bashing. Oh, well - onward and upward.

It's a plausible explanation for him wanting to take the blame and feeling guilty.


----------



## Zedd

RebuildingMe said:


> Where did you come up with this? He's been cheated on and your reaction is he is doing the same?


No, she said it's a possible explanation. It'd crossed my mind as well. Unlikely, but it certainly shouldn't be ruled out.


----------



## PurpleRoses

RebuildingMe said:


> Where did you come up with this? He's been cheated on and your reaction is he is doing the same?


I don't think there is any chance he's done the same. And yah yah, I get it, he would have the same as me. Still, I can tell that isn't it, if I'm wrong fine but it isn't even a minor concern of mine.


----------



## EdDean

Blondilocks - no one accused you of man bashing. But when you hear hoof beats look for horses not zebras. Meaning the most likely explanation is usually the correct one.

The poor man has just had the worst day of his whole life. He has suffered a horrific emotional trauma. His response is not weird or unusual. I’ve seen it before and I’ll stand by my original statement. I think he’s in shock. I hope both of them get the right kind of help as soon as possible.


----------



## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't know if you're asking me, but I have never cheated on, not even when I was dating before we met. I don't really know what it feels like at all.
> 
> I also, don't think he is ignoring his pain. He just expresses it differently. We talked well into the early morning on Friday about and and spent most of Saturday laying in bed. I don't think it's easy in a lot of ways for him, and *it effects relationships that go beyond just ours*. There is nothing simple about it and he isn't a wimp for not berating me or throwing me out on the street.
> 
> I didn't get away with anything either.* I have some pretty awful realities to face and I'm not even sure how I'm going to do it.*


And those "awful realities" would be what? Seems like you have avoided any repercussions or consequences so far. Over time, guilt will disappear and you will be able to rationalize that it was indeed your husband's fault.

And what relationships does it effect? Sounds like he doesn't want the kids or likely anyone else to know. So it is only the two of you that know.

Did he even ask who your boyfriend was?


----------



## nextbigadv

QuietRiot said:


> Its pretty common for a betrayed spouse to accept the responsibility for being cheated on. It’s much easier to fix something that we have control over, and we have control over ourselves, not our betrayer. This is why people think they can “nice” a person back. And hysterically screw them into loyalty. He has found out about the affair less than a handful of days ago, it will take time to work through emotions. At some point I’m sure he will hit every one.
> 
> The level of devastation and hurt is enormous, it’s not something that can be fully understood until it is actually experienced. What he is feeling now is just the beginning.


I think you nailed it, next will come the internal negotiations to convince himself it was his fault and he can fix it all by himself.


----------



## uphillbattle

RebuildingMe said:


> Where did you come up with this? He's been cheated on and your reaction is he is doing the same?


Honestly I thought the same thing. It's not beyond possibility.


----------



## nextbigadv

nextbigadv said:


> I think you nailed it, next will come the internal negotiations to convince himself it was his fault and he can fix it all by himself.


Pilots are taught that when everything is going wrong go to the Bold Type emergency procedures and get everything stable before you try and trouble shoot anything. Altitude is you friend, in this case he needs to get to 30k feet and survey the landscape and see if he can manage the emergency or just punch out.


----------



## re16

Well for PR, this is about best case scenario so far, her husband appears to be pre-dispositioned to want to work through this affair. It will be important that she not let him simply rugsweep as those always re-surface with problems later. Probably time to setup some marriage counseling to have a safe space to talk through this stuff. IC likely also needed for her to get to the bottom of the why's.


----------



## EdDean

re16 said:


> Well for PR, this is about best case scenario so far, her husband appears to be pre-dispositioned to want to work through this affair. It will be important that she not let him simply rugsweep as those always re-surface with problems later. Probably time to setup some marriage counseling to have a safe space to talk through this stuff. IC likely also needed for her to get to the bottom of the why's.


Agree. He should not try and repress this. I just think the right kind of counselor is important now. Someone with experience in betrayal trauma.


----------



## rugswept

Notice my handle. I am your husband. To a T.


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## PurpleRoses

I don't want to rugsweep anything, but it isn't all up to me. I feel like complete garbage our anniversary is in less than 10 days. He made me think that we weren't going to make a big deal out of it. He just made reservations at a place we go to sort of often and told me not to make a big deal out of gifts. But he didn't really tell me what he was planning. While we're at the restaurant our friends and family are showing up at the house to surprise me when we get home for our 20th anniversary. There have been a lot of restrictions and bubbles and lockdowns and he knows I've been missing this type of social thing and he organized it as a gift. It couldn't be more perfect and I completely ruined it. 

Oh, and I've been told that I am to act surprised and any tears are tears of joy. This isn't a debate, I can tell when he's serious. On top of that he had invited the guy from work who I had to uninvite. Once again I messed up everything.


----------



## syhoybenden

So you haven't told him who your lover was?


----------



## rugswept

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't want to rugsweep anything, but it isn't all up to me. I feel like complete garbage our ......
> can tell when he's serious. On top of that he had invited the guy from work who I had to uninvite. Once again I messed up everything.


Here's what you can do that will benefit him the most. Express true sorrow for your actions. Not fake stuff. If it's fake, don't express anything. If it's real it will do so much for him. He'll try to make things look fine and internally he'll live through the hell. He'll be trying to rebuild himself. In that way he's still falling in his view on life, and will for a while. For me I found myself looking at the world through rose colored ****ty glasses. It took me about 5-6 months to hit bottom. His very private self image is totally demolished. He'll be reassessing what has value and what does not.

It was bad in my case with what I had to forgive. It could have been 5 times what it was and I wouldn't have walked. I wanted my W. Still do. She wasn't much help to me with the A, at all. Just, well, rugswept the whole thing.


----------



## Sufi22

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't want to rugsweep anything, but it isn't all up to me. I feel like complete garbage our anniversary is in less than 10 days. He made me think that we weren't going to make a big deal out of it. He just made reservations at a place we go to sort of often and told me not to make a big deal out of gifts. But he didn't really tell me what he was planning. While we're at the restaurant our friends and family are showing up at the house to surprise me when we get home for our 20th anniversary. There have been a lot of restrictions and bubbles and lockdowns and he knows I've been missing this type of social thing and he organized it as a gift. It couldn't be more perfect and I completely ruined it.
> 
> Oh, and I've been told that I am to act surprised and any tears are tears of joy. This isn't a debate, I can tell when he's serious. On top of that he had invited the guy from work who I had to uninvite. Once again I messed up everything.


It sounds like your husband is hoping to hold it all together through your anniversary. He's going to need a lot of support and transparency from you. I hope you are still preparing the timeline and other actions people have suggested in case he does ask for them once he has had a chance to process more fully. Did you tell your husband who the AP is? Does your husband know you uninvited him? Have you gone formally No Contact with your AP?) Your having to uninvite him is part of the multiple side effects of betrayal. Good to see you taking ownership there. Good luck...


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## re16

Did he even ask who the affair was with or for any details?


----------



## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> Oh, and I've been told that I am to act surprised and any tears are tears of joy. This isn't a debate, I can tell when he's serious. On top of that he had invited the guy from work who I had to uninvite. Once again I messed up everything.


That last sentence. That implies one hell of a lot more (continuing) familiarity than you’ve let on so far. Does he know the identity of OM yet?


----------



## LATERILUS79

Wow.

sounds like you have a pretty great man in your life. Someone that takes his time to think about you. Someone that actually cares about you.

he even invited your friend over that he had no clue about. Unbelievable. I guess your friend didn’t let you know this because that would ruin the surprise party. Fine. Whatever I’m amazed the friend didn’t tell your husband that he can’t make it and actually allow your husband to have a nice evening with you (I’m saying this from the standpoint of none of the affair stuff known yet). Naw. This “great” friend of yours was actually going to show up at your house. He was going to emasculate your husband to his face and most likely smile about it.

I can’t imagine what your husband must be feeling like knowing he invited your AP to your marital home for a night he planned especially for you. This is beyond heart breaking. I hope in the coming months/years your husband finds some peace and happiness.


----------



## EdDean

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't want to rugsweep anything, but it isn't all up to me. I feel like complete garbage our anniversary is in less than 10 days. He made me think that we weren't going to make a big deal out of it. He just made reservations at a place we go to sort of often and told me not to make a big deal out of gifts. But he didn't really tell me what he was planning. While we're at the restaurant our friends and family are showing up at the house to surprise me when we get home for our 20th anniversary. There have been a lot of restrictions and bubbles and lockdowns and he knows I've been missing this type of social thing and he organized it as a gift. It couldn't be more perfect and I completely ruined it.
> 
> Oh, and I've been told that I am to act surprised and any tears are tears of joy. This isn't a debate, I can tell when he's serious. On top of that he had invited the guy from work who I had to uninvite. Once again I messed up everything.


Ok. I’m beginning to think the whole thread is made up because c’mon...this is getting ridiculous.

If it is all real then I sincerely apologize but see only two possibilities:

A) Your husband is in very deep denial and pain and you need to step up and stop this whole party thing right now and get him to the help he needs. Seriously!? A party right now is completely inappropriate. Your H is going to have some kind of medical event from all of the stress this party will cause him. Or option...
B) Your Husband plans to get everyone together in one place and reveal what happened to humiliate you in public. As revenge for the affair.

Neither scenario is healthy! You guys need to step back,


----------



## Davit Bek

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't want to rugsweep anything, but it isn't all up to me. I feel like complete garbage our anniversary is in less than 10 days. He made me think that we weren't going to make a big deal out of it. He just made reservations at a place we go to sort of often and told me not to make a big deal out of gifts. But he didn't really tell me what he was planning. While we're at the restaurant our friends and family are showing up at the house to surprise me when we get home for our 20th anniversary. There have been a lot of restrictions and bubbles and lockdowns and he knows I've been missing this type of social thing and he organized it as a gift. It couldn't be more perfect and I completely ruined it.
> 
> Oh, and I've been told that I am to act surprised and any tears are tears of joy. This isn't a debate, I can tell when he's serious. On top of that he had invited the guy from work who I had to uninvite. Once again I messed up everything.


He sounds like a wonderful man and it pains me to know how much pain he is going to go through. I wish it wasn't the 20th anniversary. 

I found out that my girlfriend had cheated on me on the early days of our dating, months after and right when our love was really blossoming and walking away from her was one of hardest things I've done. She was very remorseful but it was such a disorienting experience. It was as if she had died and this is another girl that just looked like her. I missed her, even though she was right there. She just no longer was the same person to me. And processing it all took time. I also wasn't angry in the beginning and more concerned with how devastated she was.

The only advice I have is show how you're truly remorseful and know that you have hurt him greatly, more than anyone else could. After that, do exactly as he wants. I'm routing for the best outcome for him and the children. 

And kudos to you, for coming forward with it. In my case, I found out myself. I'm hoping that will make the difference between the outcomes.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't want to rugsweep anything, but it isn't all up to me. I feel like complete garbage our anniversary is in less than 10 days. He made me think that we weren't going to make a big deal out of it. He just made reservations at a place we go to sort of often and told me not to make a big deal out of gifts. But he didn't really tell me what he was planning. While we're at the restaurant our friends and family are showing up at the house to surprise me when we get home for our 20th anniversary. There have been a lot of restrictions and bubbles and lockdowns and he knows I've been missing this type of social thing and he organized it as a gift. It couldn't be more perfect and I completely ruined it.
> 
> Oh, and I've been told that I am to act surprised and any tears are tears of joy. This isn't a debate, I can tell when he's serious. On top of that he had invited the guy from work who I had to uninvite. Once again I messed up everything.


You didn't tell him who the affair was with or was this guy invited before he knew of the affair? You know how messed up it is that your AP would have been at your anniversary party? 

Part of me has no interest in showing you any sympathy, but it is hard not to. The biggest thing I think you have going for you is that you seem to fully recognize how much damage and pain you have caused, and it is just the beginning. I wish the best for your family.


----------



## SRCSRC

Good for you that you have come clean to some extent. You have been extremely guarded with information concerning this mess with everyone here so it is difficult to give advice or understand who you really are at this point. We don't know if you have completely cut your boyfriend/AP out of your life. No contact means you sent him a no-contact letter or told him point-blank demanding that he never contact or speak to you again. We don't know whether you told your husband the identity of your boyfriend/AP. You must tell him if you haven't done so. Your boyfriend/AP is a first-rate louse. He was friendly enough with your husband to be invited to your house parties and despicable enough to screw his wife behind his back. Is your boyfriend/AP married or has a significant other? If he does, you MUST notify her what the two of you have been up to. No way, no how should that POS louse get away scot-free with what he did. Furthermore, his partner has an absolute right to know the character of her POS husband/boyfriend. 

You seem to be protecting your boyfriend/AP. Are you? He doesn't deserve your protection. Do you still intend to maintain some sort of contact/friendship with him? Don't you understand that that is impossible if you intend to be faithful to your husband from this point forward? I hope that you have already taken these necessary steps. Have you? If you haven't or are unwilling to take these steps, you are, again, choosing your boyfriend/AP over your husband.


----------



## Al_Bundy

For him it probably feels like he just found out the last 20yrs of his life was a lie. That takes time to process. He's going to have to go through the grieving process which includes shock then denial which is where is his now.


----------



## Harold Demure

If you truly are remorseful, and let’s face it, all you are at the moment is words and no actions, why don’t you insist he divorces you with you giving up all of the house, your savings, your salary, everything and then starting with a new marriage from there.

Actions speak far louder than your empty words. If he won’t do it, then you should divorce him on the same terms.

Why don’t you get him to read this thread and also, may be, start one of his own?


----------



## sideways

As others have asked did you inform him who your lover is?

If not why haven't you???

Also, once you do tell him, he's more than likely going to feel like a F'n FOOL for having invited him to this anniversary celebration. 

He's also going to be remembering how many other times he's encountered this guy (and more than likely was friendly to him) and now knowing he was played by both him and more importantly YOU as the VILLAGE IDIOT!!!

This will only push him into anger and even knowing this he still should be told even if he hasn't asked you who the person is.

Right now all you've done is confess some of the story. Not all of it nor have you suffered any consequences yet. 

Let's see how helpful you are in helping him heal when the weight of what you've done comes crashing down on you.

Anything you have to say to him right now and for a good number of years is just words. Let's see if your actions line up with your words. 

Right now he shouldn't believe a [email protected]&m thing you say because you've looked him in the eyes countless times and lied to him.

Also, that you're still working with this OM and still communicating with him (had to call and uninvite him) is going to be a HUGE problem.


----------



## PurpleRoses

re16 said:


> Did he even ask who the affair was with or for any details?


Of course he asked, that was his first question and I told him. I'm not hiding things. He told me he was invited and that I have to univite him.


----------



## Zedd

PurpleRoses said:


> Of course he asked, that was his first question and I told him. I'm not hiding things. He told me he was invited and that I have to univite him.


I assume that he also knows that your husband knows? Does he have a family he'll be trying to protect?


----------



## re16

One of the typical pieces of advice that we give the betrayed here is that they can't forgive what they don't know. So I guess your job is to make sure he knows it all and then it seems like he may just move into forgiveness.

Waywards tend to trickle truth, or only let out bits of information at a time....trying to soften the blow, which only leads to a 2nd D-day, where new information is often very damaging.

You need to avoid doing these things to get into a real reconciliation.


----------



## PurpleRoses

re16 said:


> One of the typical pieces of advice that we give the betrayed here is that they can't forgive what they don't know. So I guess your job is to make sure he knows it all and then it seems like he may just move into forgiveness.
> 
> Waywards tend to trickle truth, or only let out bits of information at a time....trying to soften the blow, which only leads to a 2nd D-day, where new information is often very damaging.
> 
> You need to avoid doing these things to get into a real reconciliation.


I'm not going into all the details here, it isn't important to relive that, but he knows and suffice to say that he knows enough that there won't be any further surprises.


----------



## HappilyMarried1

PurpleRoses said:


> He made me think that we weren't going to make a big deal out of it. He just made reservations at a place we go to sort of often and told me not to make a big deal out of gifts. But he didn't really tell me what he was planning. While we're at the restaurant our friends and family are showing up at the house to surprise me when we get home for our 20th anniversary. There have been a lot of restrictions and bubbles and lockdowns and he knows I've been missing this type of social thing and he organized it as a gift.


Based on what you said here above it does sound like you have a pretty good husband there. I do bet you really feel even worse than you already did. I hope you can work through it. It sounds like based on your post that hopefully you have learned your lesson and can move on. It is now up to your husband to see if he can. Best of luck! You might tell him that after what you have done to the marriage this celebration he has planned can be maybe looked at just for you two as the start of your new marriage (relationship). Just a suggestion.


----------



## Gabriel

HappilyMarried1 said:


> Based on what you said here above it does sound like you have a pretty good husband there. I do bet you really feel even worse than you already did. I hope you can work through it. It sounds like based on your post that hopefully you have learned your lesson and can move on. It is now up to your husband to see if he can. Best of luck! You might tell him that after what you have done to the marriage this celebration he has planned can be maybe looked at just for you two as the start of your new marriage (relationship). Just a suggestion.


It is impossible to "begin anew" this quickly. His brain hasn't even processed all of this information.


----------



## Gabriel

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't want to rugsweep anything, but it isn't all up to me. I feel like complete garbage our anniversary is in less than 10 days. He made me think that we weren't going to make a big deal out of it. He just made reservations at a place we go to sort of often and told me not to make a big deal out of gifts. But he didn't really tell me what he was planning. While we're at the restaurant our friends and family are showing up at the house to surprise me when we get home for our 20th anniversary. There have been a lot of restrictions and bubbles and lockdowns and he knows I've been missing this type of social thing and he organized it as a gift. It couldn't be more perfect and I completely ruined it.
> 
> Oh, and I've been told that I am to act surprised and any tears are tears of joy. This isn't a debate, I can tell when he's serious. On top of that he had invited the guy from work who I had to uninvite. Once again I messed up everything.


The devil in me is thinking your H is setting you up. That this gathering will now be to inform all your friends about what you did, and that he will be divorcing you. A public embarrassment.

It would be an awesome plan, and a possible reason he is pretending to be okay.

It is not normal to be this unaffected by your terrible news. He's either 1) still in shock and processing it, 2) already having an affair of his own, so he's feeling some hidden relief, or 3) planning to hit you back.


----------



## Cletus

Gabriel said:


> It is not normal to be this unaffected by your terrible news. He's either 1) still in shock and processing it, 2) already having an affair of his own, so he's feeling some hidden relief, or 3) planning to hit you back.


It is also possible that he had an inkling before he was told, and that this doesn't come as a big surprise.
It is possible that he suffers from self esteem issues that make him feel inadequate as a spouse.
Maybe he's an introvert who prefers to untangle things in his head.
Maybe he's banging her sister. 

I could go on. We should probably stop being so sure of how others are expected act having never met either of the people in question.


----------



## HappilyMarried1

Gabriel said:


> It is impossible to "begin anew" this quickly. His brain hasn't even processed all of this information.


True I agree totally I was just saying she could say this could be a new start for them but you are right that is totally up to him to decide.


----------



## EdDean

Gabriel said:


> The devil in me is thinking your H is setting you up. That this gathering will now be to inform all your friends about what you did, and that he will be divorcing you. A public embarrassment.





Gabriel said:


> The devil in me is thinking your H is setting you up. That this gathering will now be to inform all your friends about what you did, and that he will be divorcing you. A public embarrassment.
> 
> It is not normal to be this unaffected by your terrible news. He's either 1) still in shock and processing it, 2) already having an affair of his own, so he's feeling some hidden relief, or 3) planning to hit you back.


My exact thoughts. This party is a terrible idea. Even he’s not planning to reveal at the party he will break down and crack at some point during the night.

I’m actually very pro marriage and I’m rooting for you guys. I believe in the grace of true remorse and forgiveness. But this party is just an awful plan. It will be miserable for both of you.


----------



## SRCSRC

I sincerely hope that you have made it a point to your husband that you are in a no-contact forever situation with your AP. I also hope that you or your husband notify your AP's wife or significant other if there is one, regarding what you and your AP did. She has an absolute right to know. If your husband agrees to allow you to work at the same location, I suggest that you thank him, but as an act of good faith, you put in for some sort of transfer that will provide significant geographical distance between the two of you. Working in adjacent buildings is not good enough. You must make it clear to your husband that you will never, ever see, talk to, or correspond with your AP ever again. The thought of him should make you sick at this point. He was complicit in this affair and is a true dog. He is no friend and the quicker you understand how horrible this person is, the quicker you can move on. Feeling bad for what you did is not good enough. You have concrete steps you can take to help your husband heal. Do not take his forgiveness as a pass to resume life as usual. Your AP must be totally removed from your life and his significant other must be told. I've said enough. I've been through what your husband is now experiencing. It's simply horrible. You sound like someone who has the capacity to be remorseful. You are not there yet. My ex-wife never reached close to that point. We divorced six horrible years later. It's all up to you, now.

One more point. I can't imagine having a 20th-anniversary party now. You should simply cancel it and blame it on Covid-19. Don't put your husband through this regardless of what he says. The whole celebration is just so hollow now.


----------



## re16

Gabriel said:


> The devil in me is thinking your H is setting you up. That this gathering will now be to inform all your friends about what you did, and that he will be divorcing you. A public embarrassment.


I was thinking the exact same thing. Playing coy until he unleashes an incredible embarrassment for all to see.

Its hard to tell what is behind it, but I stick by my thought that something about his reaction to all this is off.


----------



## sideways

How F'd is it that your husband (out of fear of what family and friends would think of you and trying to protect you) is going through and having the anniversary party.

Something that should have been a happy and joyous occasion for him (and a huge milestone) is now soiled and tainted by your deceit and lies and betrayal.

In trying to protect you he's going to have to put his fake @$$ happy face on and pretend that everything is fantastic and do what you're great at doing with people you're supposed to love and that's lie.

A consequence HE'S having to suffer instead of you for crying out loud. If he cancels the party then everyone wonders what's going on?? And he has to LIE AGAIN!!

If you're understanding what remorse is this should be about your husband and what's in his best interest and not putting him in a situation where he has to eat the $h!t sandwich that you've purposely served him (and don't say you didn't because if you didn't you would not of had an affair).

Instead of him trying to protect you why don't you take it upon yourself to protect him?? Why not cancel the party and tell your family the truth? More than likely you won't do this because there would be consequences to bare and again your husband is trying to protect you from these consequences where again it should be you protecting him.

Just like quitting your job so that your husband doesn't have to go through daily torture wondering what the two of you are up to and all the mental anguish that will bombard every fiber of his being.

But you won't do this either which ultimately shows that you talk about being remorseful but your actions moving forward will show it's really all about you. Yes I get it, your husband will try to convince you not to do any of this because he thinks he's protecting you but again who needs to be protecting who?

Just my two cents and you can ignore this or get defensive but you came here for help. You've taken the first step telling him which took a great deal of courage. How much further are you willing to go because right now it appears your husband is going to rug sweep this and is willing to suffer in silence.

Is this really how you want this to play out?

You say you love him? You're the one that stabbed him in the heart, he's bleeding, are you willing to do everything you can to help him or was confessing to him just a small way of relinquishing some of the guilt you felt?

Your actions or NON action will show if you truly get it or not and understand what remorse is really all about.


----------



## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> Of course he asked, that was his first question and I told him. I'm not hiding things. He told me he was invited and that I have to univite him.


What did your loverboy say when you called to uninvite him? Did you tell him your husband knew about you two lovebirds?

Your husband must have nerves of steel to continue the charade with the anniversary party. Telling you to pretend any tears were happiness. Is he planning to keep this just a secret between you two? Not even the kids or relatives will know? In his shoes, would have just cancelled the whole thing, called everyone n tell them couldn't risk a Covid super spreader event. ( which with delta rampant is not a lie )

Sounds like he is a different sort than most men.


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## Tested_by_stress

Speaking for myself. There'd be no 20th anniversary celebration and certainly not a party. In his shoes, the only reason I could fathom him going ahead with a party would be to out you to as many family and friends simultaneously as he could. You'd definitely deserve it but you more than likely realize that already.


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## jsmart

Wow @sideways , that is true. He has to hide his shame and put on his happily married face all while bleeding out from his wife’s betrayal. He even invited that POS. Talk about a mind frak. 

@PurpleRoses , I don’t know if it’s writing style that makes hard for you to express your regret let alone remorse but it’s almost like you’re bothered by having to be accountable to your husband. We here on TAM have read threads like yours hundreds of times and have members that have been in your husbands shoes, and some that have been in your shoes too. This board can be a help if you drop your defensiveness and ask for guidance. 

No one on this boards knows you in real life so any 2x4s you receive are to wake you up because we sense a lack of empathy for your husband not because we are a bunch bitter betrayed spouses. You can learn a lot in this board and if you sincerely stick it out, after a while, you will have members not only offering advise, they will offer emotional support, which I imagine you will need to get through this.


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## LATERILUS79

You said in one of your first posts “a few other people know, but they wouldn’t say anything.”

those people aren’t friends of your marriage.

are any of those people also invited to your house for the surprise party for YOU?

if so, it’d be in your best interest to let your husband know who are the people that are totally cool with keeping your affair secrets.


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## Zedd

Gabriel said:


> The devil in me is thinking your H is setting you up. That this gathering will now be to inform all your friends about what you did, and that he will be divorcing you. A public embarrassment.
> 
> It would be an awesome plan, and a possible reason he is pretending to be okay.
> 
> It is not normal to be this unaffected by your terrible news. He's either 1) still in shock and processing it, 2) already having an affair of his own, so he's feeling some hidden relief, or 3) planning to hit you back.


I'd certainly keep my radar up for something like this if I were you.

You haven't provided a ton of information, so it's left room for a lot of speculation. That said, I'm sure you a have a far better read on the situation than any of us here. Just read through and hopefully you'll find some nuggets of information that will be of use to you.

Good luck.


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## Gabriel

FYI, I caught my wife in an emotional affair a couple of weeks before a huge birthday bash she was throwing for me. And the AP was invited.

I wanted to cancel the party. In fact, I was already here at TAM, and posed the question there. Probably 2/3 of the people said I should go through with it. And I did, and I'm glad I did (AP was disinvited by my wife). But that was a birthday party just for me....not some celebration of our marriage. Had that been the case, there is no way in hell I would have gone through with it.


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## AttaBoy

PurpleRoses, you will get exactly what you deserve. 
Perhaps you will have a shell of a husband going through the motions in life, rugsweeping and choking down a bit more of his sh!t sandwich with each new day. 
Or perhaps he will come to understand that it had nothing to do with him, and the affair was not a mistake at all. It was who you are, your choices, 1000s of them, that led you to freely give yourself to another man, willingly. Your husband may be done with you. 
No lies or omissions. Write and offer your husband with a excruciatingly detailed timeline. Any thing you keep from him is denying him his agency. Dates, times, places ... thoughts, feelings, and actions. All of it. Be prepared to read it aloud to him. 
If you have it in you to do these things then you have the capacity to meet your husband where he is right now. Almost. 
He is in absolute and utter hell.


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## chazmataz33

So your husband doesnt want your boyfriend at the party where he CAN keep an eye on him? Hows he going to feel when youre off to work every day to the same place where you have already proven you CANT be trusted?I wonder? Can you imagine the pain he will be in and are you willingly going to put him through it just because you are chosing your job over your husband.No excuses bottom line whether you see it but we all do.


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## VladDracul

PurpleRoses said:


> He told me he was invited and that I have to univite him.


I'd hope the guy has at least enough respect for you and your old man not to show up. That would take a real douche bag.


----------



## Arkansas

read this









hurting, looking for men's advice with similar...


long story I married at 25 years old an 18 year old, wonderful person in 1995. Home schooled, as a young girl sexually abused. We had a daughter in 1999, lost a child in 2000 and had a son in 2001. She and I never did fight, and we also never really communicated well. I've always known that. No...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





first understand you don't really love your husbands, not really .... you might have a need for him, but you don't do what you did to people you love..... you've destroyed everything he's ever know as far as faith, trust, vows ........ its all gone. You have also killed those things in him. He will NEVER trust you again. Ever. Never. What you did will be with him every day. what you did was all for you and nobody else - because you wanted it.

my ex-wife played the same games - she was emotional, she was still the same person, just a temporary lapse of judgement but the truth is? my ex-wife died when she did those things because the woman I loved wouldn't have

you are NOT who your husband loves - you are who he remembers loving

because my world was shattered, my life ended .... because my ex-wife died and I died too now. because of her adultery I lost my family (in-laws) and she lost all her (my family) and she lost her sister and her son, and my daughter knows her mom is a ***** now. She lost everything for a shiny pretty object - you might too but you cannot play the whole " I'm a person too" card .......... people make mistakes like tripping or overcooking a steak - you damn sure knew when you went to his apartment what you were going to do, you thought about it often and you did it

if you cannot admit to that - then why even ask the questioned you asked ?



now you want me to give advice from the side you never thought about ? I want you to think back on your affair - do you miss any part of it from the emotional part, friend part, sex part ... any of it ?

if you can honestly say no - then you might can provide your husband with enough actions/words in the next decade to make your marriage work is he's an amazing husband.

if even one part of anything you did do you remember as beautiful or special or miss it ..... then leave your husband now because anything less is continuing the abuse, lying, using and manipulation that you've done to him for all this time since you started your affair. 

and anything that's being done to you - like DNA tests ? suffer it


----------



## Arkansas

PurpleRoses said:


> I have some pretty awful realities to face and I'm not even sure how I'm going to do it.



I'm curious how many affairs have you been around in your lifetime? How many broken marriages because of adultery? Ever read the Bible? Have you ever seen a tv show or movie where adultery destroys everything ?

Now, understand this .... you absolutely KNEW the consequences of what you were choosing to do. You just thought you'd do it and hide it and get away with it. right ?

honest answer please - because my wife thought she could/would. Have all the adultery fun but never pay the costs that comes with it

so the awful realities you chose with your actions, you knew them before you did the adultery .... now face them


----------



## VladDracul

PurpleRoses said:


> I didn't get away with anything either. I have some pretty awful realities to face and I'm not even sure how I'm going to do it.


PR, you've said you are not leaving your job as a result of the affair. You know without just bolting and running, you're not going to get off the hook around this site without explaining why you're willing to confess, but don't seem to be willing to sacrifice very many tangible things to ease your husband's mind that you're not in contact with this cat. Do you believe your job is worth the torment of uncertainty he may have that you are continuing to see this cat at work? There's another recent thread where a chick got caught having an affair with a co worker, lead her old man to believe it was over, continued both to work with with him and have an affair with him for another 6 years. How do you think your husband would respond to that thread? Go ahead and place a bid on your husband's peace of mind and your marriage Milady. 

Remember the quote, "Woe to him who offends a patient man who has just reached his limit.”
― Joyce Rachelle


----------



## GusPolinski

VladDracul said:


> PR, you've said you are not leaving your job as a result of the affair. You know without just bolting and running, you're not going to get off the hook around this site without explaining why you're willing to confess, but don't seem to be willing to sacrifice very many tangible things to ease your husband's mind that you're not in contact with this cat. Do you believe your job is worth the torment of uncertainty he may have that you are continuing to see this cat at work? There's another recent thread where a chick got caught having an affair with a co worker, lead her old man to believe it was over, continued both to work with with him and have an affair with him for another 6 years. How do you think your husband would respond to that thread? Go ahead and place a bid on your husband's peace of mind and your marriage Milady.
> 
> Remember the quote, "Woe to him who offends a patient man who has just reached his limit.”
> ― Joyce Rachelle


Damn.

That was remarkably balanced.

And not even a single “Dawg”.

Bravo. 👏🏻


----------



## Rus47

chazmataz33 said:


> So your husband doesnt want your boyfriend at the party where he CAN keep an eye on him? Hows he going to feel when youre off to work every day to the same place where you have already proven you CANT be trusted?I wonder? Can you imagine the pain he will be in and are you willingly going to put him through it just because you are chosing your job over your husband.No excuses bottom line whether you see it but we all do.


Actually, keeping her job helps her husband if there is ever a divorce. That income ought to be counted in calculating any spousal support. And, she can't really be trusted anywhere. Every time she leaves the house he will wonder where she is actually going. Maybe he will get to the point where he no longer cares where she goes of what she does.


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## manwithnoname

I don't know what type of guy your husband is, but the first thing I thought of is that I would want to serve papers in front of all our family and friends. But I would not have un-invited the OM. 

I guess there's still time for him to come out of shock.


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## re16

Yea, I would wait to quit until the bomb that dropped has had time to sink in. If this ends up heading toward divorce, there is no reason to quit....


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## GusPolinski

Rus47 said:


> Actually, keeping her job helps her husband if there is ever a divorce. That income ought to be counted in calculating any spousal support. And, she can't really be trusted anywhere. Every time she leaves the house he will wonder where she is actually going. Maybe he will get to the point where he no longer cares where she goes of what she does.


Her _past work history_ can also be used to show that she’s capable of working and at what level, the salary she could expect, etc.

IOW, working/not working wouldn’t necessarily hurt or help either or them if it came to divorce.

Working THERE alongside OM (whether they work together closely or not) could wind up being _the thing_ that keeps reconciliation from happening, though.

Dress for the job you want, folks — do you want to be a gainfully-employed divorcée or a temporarily-unemployed spouse? 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## Rus47

GusPolinski said:


> Her _past work history_ can also be used to show that she’s capable of working and at what level, the salary she could expect, etc.
> 
> IOW, working/not working wouldn’t necessarily hurt or help either or them if it came to divorce.
> 
> Working THERE alongside OM (whether they work together closely or not) could wind up being _the thing_ that keeps reconciliation from happening, though.
> 
> Dress for the job you want, folks — do you want to be a gainfully-employed divorcée or a temporarily-unemployed spouse? 🤷🏻‍♂️


Point taken, but in reality whether they work at same place or not, she n BF can still play. And hubby ought to assume they are, make her prove otherwise.


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## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> Of course he asked, that was his first question and I told him. I'm not hiding things. He told me he was invited and that I have to univite him.


Why didn’t you require no contact with OM when things ended? OM should not be allowed anywhere near your house and, if invited, should have been EXPECTED, by common sense and by your husband, to come up with a reason he couldn’t come.

It would be a rather “nuclear” f-you to your husband if OM said he was coming though, so I suspect he simply hasn’t made his intentions known. But it was OM’s responsibility to decline at first opportunity.


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## re16

Casual Observer said:


> Why didn’t you require no contact with OM when things ended?


Few waywards move quickly to block contact with their AP. They do it only when forced... always trying to leave the door open for more.


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## Davit Bek

Contrary to most opinions here, I don't think he is planning on outing her on the 20th anniversary. He seems like a kind man. My guess would be 

1. He doesn't want to rock the boat as much as possible, specially because of their children. 
2. Poor guy is still in shock and not processing things correctly. He keeps blaming himself. A common but misguided thought process. 
3. A lot of men feel embarrassment and emasculation when they get cheated on. He would likely want to avoid telling the world about that. 

This is unforgivable. Thinking about how much its going to hurt to pretend at his 20th anniversary and how he will likely never really be able to change that memory is just devastating to even read about, much less go through it.


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## VladDracul

GusPolinski said:


> Damn.
> 
> That was remarkably balanced.
> 
> And not even a single “Dawg”.
> 
> Bravo. 👏🏻


Thanks.......Dawg


----------



## Beach123

Edited - I was typing from old info.


----------



## Beach123

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't know if you're asking me, but I have never cheated on, not even when I was dating before we met. I don't really know what it feels like at all.
> 
> I also, don't think he is ignoring his pain. He just expresses it differently. We talked well into the early morning on Friday about and and spent most of Saturday laying in bed. I don't think it's easy in a lot of ways for him, and it effects relationships that go beyond just ours. There is nothing simple about it and he isn't a wimp for not berating me or throwing me out on the street.
> 
> I didn't get away with anything either. I have some pretty awful realities to face and I'm not even sure how I'm going to do it.


Start by quitting your job! 
It’s a consequence for your bad behavior! You shouldn’t go to that job for even one more day!

And NO it is not fair to ask for forgiveness, especially when you make a decision countless times to betray him.
What you should be doing is offering to DO anything he requests to hand him some peace of mind! Who cares how you feel - you betrayed him. Forgiveness? Pffftttt!


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## Rus47

Davit Bek said:


> Contrary to most opinions here, I don't think he is planning on outing her on the 20th anniversary. He seems like a kind man. My guess would be
> 
> 1. He doesn't want to rock the boat as much as possible, specially because of their children.
> 2. Poor guy is still in shock and not processing things correctly. He keeps blaming himself. A common but misguided thought process.
> 3. A lot of men feel embarrassment and emasculation when they get cheated on. He would likely want to avoid telling the world about that.
> 
> This is unforgivable. Thinking about how much its going to hurt to pretend at his 20th anniversary and how he will likely never really be able to change that memory is just devastating to even read about, much less go through it.


Yes, my opinions are always colored by what think I would do. And outing at the anniversary would be creative. But your number 3 is probably closest to this husband's position, recalling he doesn't want their kids to know. His *warning* to PR about not showing sadness and him telling her to contact her lover and tell him not to come is a little incongruous with number 3 though.

As usual, we don't know the husbands personality, motivation, or background. Or PR's for that matter. She has been reticent for some reason with responding to questions, but the overall picture suggests the whole affair being rug swept by all involved. If hubby is hoping to do that, carrying on with the anniversary party is understandable.

Maybe rug sweeping "works" in more cases than we know. Maybe a lot of couples we know have or are going through an affair(s) or it's (their) aftermath and remain married. In the days before the internet and social media my impression is that was fairly common. As a kid, recall people in our small town being gossiped about as being the WS, BS, or AP in an affair, sometimes participating in more than one role. Had friends that discovered what their parents were doing from other kids overhearing adult conversations. The parents even put on a face in public trying to make everyone believe their marriage was one made in heaven.


----------



## EdDean

Beach123 said:


> Start by quitting your job!
> It’s a consequence for your bad behavior! You shouldn’t go to that job for even one more day!
> 
> And NO it is not fair to ask for forgiveness, especially when you make a decision countless times to betray him.
> What you should be doing is offering to DO anything he requests to hand him some peace of mind! Who cares how you feel - you betrayed him. Forgiveness? Pffftttt!


This is the difference between regret and remorse. I believe PR is very sad and regretful. Would invent a time machine and change everything if she could. But that is not remorse. Remorse is making your needs secondary to his needs in whatever form that takes. Including (but hopefully not) ending the relationship.

imagine this analogy:The unfaithful spouse walks up their mate and without warning stabs them in the heart. A regretful WS stands over the BS sobbing and repeating how sorry and sad they are that they did that. A remorseful spouse performs whatever action they need to do to stop the bleeding and nurse the victim back to health. Even if that means doing things that are very costly or difficult to them.

When the BS sees actions and true remorse they slowly start to feel safe again and slowly (very slowly) begin to trust again. That takes years but eventually true forgiveness can be offered.

PR if you’re still reading this read I recommend reaching out to some other sites that focus on this aspect of recovery. aftermyaffair.com and things like that. As always, a MC trained in infidelity would be very helpful.


----------



## Blondilocks

OP, you haven't suffered any consequences, _*yet. *_I imagine you're waiting for the other shoe to drop - that can be quite disquieting. 

Revenge is a dish best served cold and it may be that is what will happen to you. Your husband seems to be trying to keep control of the situation to manage his shame of having an unfaithful wife and pride. It's the quiet ones you have to watch out for.


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## Landofblue

Purple
Been reading your thread for a while. Your BH is being very stoic. I can’t imagine having to say the words to my wife “please uninvite your lover to the surprise anniversary party I planned for you”. Whether he shows it to you or not, that is a soul shattering sentence to have to say.

You are getting lots of good advice on everything you should be doing to try and start rebuilding what your choices have destroyed.

But one think I want to absolutely be clear on. You need to find a way to NEVER and I mean NEVER see or hear from your AP ever again. And that means finding a new job.

Now I read all your excuses about why you cannot quit your job. But a truly remorseful wayward wife would realize she should have thought of that before choosing to “F-word” a coworker. Now is time to do the hard things. The impossible things, to rebuild and show your H you are serious about it.

The fact that there is a chance you will see him, every day you are there, is completely unacceptable, even if your husband doesn’t say it is. It needs to be UNACCEPTABLE TO YOU. 

Now I’m not telling you to quit your job. I’m telling you to find another one. And to start now. I truly remorseful wayward wife would want to be safe for her betrayed husband. And you should want to do this the right way, FOR HIM. 

So I can’t stress this enough. Communicate to your husband that it is important that you become a safe partner and you want to do everything you possibly can to remove this piece of **** man completely from your lives. So with his agreement you will start to look and interview for a new job.

I don’t care that you love your job. This is no longer about you. If you think it is, please call a divorce attorney and let your H know you are NOT ALL IN with rebuilding the marriage.

Please do this step. To me it’s one of the most important you can take.


----------



## LATERILUS79

Blondilocks said:


> OP, you haven't suffered any consequences, _*yet. *_I imagine you're waiting for the other shoe to drop - that can be quite disquieting.
> 
> Revenge is a dish best served cold and it may be that is what will happen to you. Your husband seems to be trying to keep control of the situation to manage his shame of having an unfaithful wife and pride. It's the quiet ones you have to watch out for.


so all I could think of after reading your post was the famous line by Yoda after Luke said he was not afraid, “You will be, You WILL be”.


----------



## Landofblue

Purple
Been reading your thread for a while. Your BH is being very stoic. I can’t imagine having to say the words to my wife “please uninvite your lover to the surprise anniversary party I planned for you”. Whether he shows it to you or not, that is a soul shattering sentence to have to say.

You are getting lots of good advice on everything you should be doing to try and start rebuilding what your choices have destroyed.

But one think I want to absolutely be clear on. You need to find a way to NEVER and I mean NEVER see or hear from your AP ever again. And that means finding a new job.

Now I read all your excuses about why you cannot quit your job. But a truly remorseful wayward wife would realize she should have thought of that before choosing to “F-word” a coworker. Now is time to do the hard things. The impossible things, to rebuild and show your H you are serious about it.

The fact that there is a chance you will see him, every day you are there, is completely unacceptable, even if your husband doesn’t say it is. It needs to be UNACCEPTABLE TO YOU. 

Now I’m not telling you to quit your job. I’m telling you to find another one. And to start now. I truly remorseful wayward wife would want to be safe for her betrayed husband. And you should want to do this the right way, FOR HIM. 

So I can’t stress this enough. Communicate to your husband that it is important that you become a safe partner and you want to do everything you possibly can to remove this man completely from your lives. So with his agreement you will start to look and interview for a new job.

I don’t care that you love your job. This is no longer about you. If you think it is, please call a divorce attorney and let your H know you are NOT ALL IN with rebuilding the marriage.

Please do this step. To me it’s one of the most important you can take.


----------



## GusPolinski

To be clear, I don’t think she should unilaterally quit her job. She should, however, discuss it with her husband.

And it’s not about punishing anyone — it’s about showing her husband that she’s willing to do whatever it takes to put as much emotional and physical distance between herself and OM as possible.

Because 22 floors and keycards don’t mean jack when compared to office phones, computers, email, messaging systems, etc to which he’ll have no access in order to verify NC, not to mention the doubtlessly hundreds of bathrooms, stairwells, break rooms, maintenance closets, etc that can be used to meet up.

I mean… DUUUHHHHH.


----------



## Marc878

Infidelity repeats happen. If he’s available at some point she may be too. Happens all the time.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

Perhaps news of the affair will make it's way through their place of employment and the choice to leave the job will be made for them both. It has happened many times before. It's something purple needs to prepare for.


----------



## Rus47

Landofblue said:


> Purple
> Been reading your thread for a while. Your BH is being very stoic. I can’t imagine having to say the words to my wife “please uninvite your lover to the surprise anniversary party I planned for you”. Whether he shows it to you or not, that is a soul shattering sentence to have to say.
> 
> You are getting lots of good advice on everything you should be doing to try and start rebuilding what your choices have destroyed.
> 
> But one think I want to absolutely be clear on. You need to find a way to NEVER and I mean NEVER see or hear from your AP ever again. And that means finding a new job.
> 
> Now I read all your excuses about why you cannot quit your job. But a truly remorseful wayward wife would realize she should have thought of that before choosing to “F-word” a coworker.* Now is time to do the hard things. The impossible things, to rebuild and show your H you are serious about it.*
> 
> The fact that there is a chance you will see him, every day you are there, is completely unacceptable, even if your husband doesn’t say it is. It needs to be UNACCEPTABLE TO YOU.
> 
> Now I’m not telling you to quit your job. I’m telling you to find another one. And to start now. I truly remorseful wayward wife would want to be safe for her betrayed husband. And you should want to do this the right way, FOR HIM.
> 
> So I can’t stress this enough. Communicate to your husband that it is important that you become a safe partner and you want to do everything you possibly can to remove this man completely from your lives. So with his agreement you will start to look and interview for a new job.
> 
> I don’t care that you love your job. This is no longer about you. If you think it is, please call a divorce attorney and let your H know you are NOT ALL IN with rebuilding the marriage.
> 
> Please do this step. To me it’s one of the most important you can take.


Haven't you read enough of her responses to realize she is going to do whatever she wants to and nothing she doesn't want to. Husband will just have to deal with it, she knows him well enough to realize he will swallow the sandwich. And seems he is fine with that. This whole thing is going to be rugswept both spouses, the only people besides them an lover boy who will ever know are the few people who would never tell anyone else. 

Nothing to see here.


----------



## Landofblue

Not saying you are wrong, but my advice is the same whether she takes it or not


----------



## Arkansas

Landofblue said:


> So I can’t stress this enough. Communicate to your husband that it is important that you become a safe partner and you want to do everything you possibly can to remove this piece of **** man completely from your lives. So with his agreement you will start to look and interview for a new job.
> 
> I don’t care that you love your job. This is no longer about you. If you think it is, please call a divorce attorney and let your H know you are NOT ALL IN with rebuilding the marriage.
> 
> Please do this step. To me it’s one of the most important you can take.




My ex never lost any sleep, never lost appetite or weight, she didn't quit her college or her job ...... and I didn't ask her to do those things thinking it was selfish of me

The Truth was, she wanted to keep all those things because she was the selfish one and she continued her adultery physically and by remembering it all as beautiful and wonderful and special 

I should have know better - but that was the fool in me thinking she'd see me as wonderful and special when reality was, she was just continuing to use me, manipulate me, take advantage of me .... all her words and actions were nothing


that's the price of adultery - losing all credibility. Your words no longer mean anything, You've proven capable of the worst actions and lies. You can't get that back, ever. But OP knew that when she broke all her vows, promises and entrusted faith.


----------



## Rus47

Arkansas said:


> My ex never lost any sleep, never lost appetite or weight, she didn't quit her college or her job ...... and I didn't ask her to do those things thinking it was selfish of me
> 
> *The Truth was, she wanted to keep all those things because she was the selfish one and she continued her adultery physically and by remembering it all as beautiful and wonderful and special*
> 
> I should have know better - but that was the fool in me thinking she'd see me as wonderful and special when reality was, she was just continuing to use me, manipulate me, take advantage of me .... all her words and actions were nothing
> 
> 
> that's the price of adultery - losing all credibility. Your words no longer mean anything, You've proven capable of the worst actions and lies. You can't get that back, ever. But OP knew that when she broke all her vows, promises and entrusted faith.


Your ex may have a sister in PR.


----------



## Arkansas

Rus47 said:


> Husband will just have to deal with it, she knows him well enough to realize he will swallow the sandwich.


until husband realizes that the woman he loved is gone - that woman of high moral and ethics, who has deep character of vows/faith/trust is gone. Dead, gone, will never ever return

when he realizes this new person lied to his face for months, literally came home with the sweat of another man on her, who had sex with someone else and loved doing it, who planned the events and scheduled/organized the times, who spent how many hours dreaming of another man ..... when he realizes that is the person he's married to now, he'll leave and he'll do it his way on his terms

or he should anyway, if he's smart

I don't know what the OP can do to repair it - everything she needs to is the answer and even though, there is a snowball's chance in hell IMO. the OP knew that when she committed adultery - that's the price she was willing to pay


----------



## Gabriel

Not sure we will see how this story ends. We might have chased her off, unfortunately.


----------



## EdDean

Landofblue said:


> Not saying you are wrong, but my advice is the same whether she takes it or not


It was very good advice. However, moving forward from shameful feelings of regret to a more humbled and determined state of remorse is not always possible for everyone. I think those who can do it have a chance to save their marriage. And make it worth saving. It hasn’t been that long since DDay for her marriage. She may yet get there. I kinda hope she has moved on from this site to more professional help. This place can get pretty toxic.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

EdDean said:


> It was very good advice. However, moving forward from shameful feelings of regret to a more humbled and determined state of remorse is not always possible for everyone. I think those who can do it have a chance to save their marriage. And make it worth saving. It hasn’t been that long since DDay for her marriage. She may yet get there. I kinda hope she has moved on from this site to more professional help. This place can get pretty toxic.


I'm always intrigued with statistics. Most studies say only 15%-16% marriage survive infidelity even though somewhere around 40% attempt to recover from it.


----------



## Rus47

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm always intrigued with statistics. Most studies say only 15%-16% marriage survive infidelity even though somewhere around 40% attempt to recover from it.


A moderator on TAM once said R was successful 85% of the time, which thought astounding, maybe that is for all causes. I would think the 15% surviving infidelity would be on the high side. Of course getting real numbers would be difficult, a lot of couples just divorce and never divulge if cheating was the cause.


----------



## uphillbattle

Rus47 said:


> A moderator on TAM once said R was successful 85% of the time, which thought astounding, maybe that is for all causes. I would think the 15% surviving infidelity would be on the high side. Of course getting real numbers would be difficult, a lot of couples just divorce and never divulge if cheating was the cause.


That was 1 study. Of the many done they are all over the place. Some say as low as 16% and 1 as high as 85%, most fall between 30-60%


----------



## Al_Bundy

Rus47 said:


> A moderator on TAM once said R was successful 85% of the time, which thought astounding, maybe that is for all causes. I would think the 15% surviving infidelity would be on the high side. Of course getting real numbers would be difficult, a lot of couples just divorce and never divulge if cheating was the cause.


True. Surviving is not the same as thriving. A person who is in a car wreck and ends up in a coma is surviving.


----------



## Arkansas

I'd think 10-15% is about right - and 90% of the surviving ones probably aren't healthy/good marriages

When a person destroys trust/faith/vows combined with lies/manipulation/using that adultery requires ..... everyone pretty much knows when they do it they're destroying the fabric of their lives

and they do it anyway because lust/desire/fantasy/selfishness invades their minds and takes over


----------



## BigDaddyNY

uphillbattle said:


> That was 1 study. Of the many done they are all over the place. Some say as low as 16% and 1 as high as 85%, most fall between 30-60%


I love stats, but as we all know they can be manipulated, cherry picked, etc. I'm sure most people have heard the says, there are lies, damned lies and statistics. 

You have to consider the source. I found one article from a general relationship blog that sited a study from 2018 that found 16% of marriages survived infidelity. Surviving mean they were married 2 years or longer after the infidelity. Then I found a couples therapy site that used a study from 2014 that said 50% of unfaithful partners are still married to the BS. They give no time frame. Is it 2 months or 2 years after the affair discovery. They also have a vested interest in showing that marriage can survive infidelity making it worthwhile to go to counseling. 

Some other stats I found interesting... 

Overall men cheat more, but when you break it down by age, up until 29 women cheat slightly more than men, 11% vs 10%. It switches at that point and goes up drastically for men over 40. 

Good new for the faithful, 83% of marriages with no infidelity are still married.


----------



## Cletus

BigDaddyNY said:


> Good new for the faithful, 83% of marriages with no infidelity are still married.


83% of marriages with no KNOWN infidelity. 

Statistics, and all that.


----------



## QuietRiot

BigDaddyNY said:


> I love stats, but as we all know they can be manipulated, cherry picked, etc. I'm sure most people have heard the says, there are lies, damned lies and statistics.
> 
> You have to consider the source. I found one article from a general relationship blog that sited a study from 2018 that found 16% of marriages survived infidelity. Surviving mean they were married 2 years or longer after the infidelity. Then I found a couples therapy site that used a study from 2014 that said 50% of unfaithful partners are still married to the BS. They give no time frame. Is it 2 months or 2 years after the affair discovery. They also have a vested interest in showing that marriage can survive infidelity making it worthwhile to go to counseling.
> 
> Some other stats I found interesting...
> 
> Overall men cheat more, but when you break it down by age, up until 29 women cheat slightly more than men, 11% vs 10%. It switches at that point and goes up drastically for men over 40.
> 
> Good new for the faithful, 83% of marriages with no infidelity are still married.


I don’t believe the numbers either. I’d say most people never even find out about infidelity… And those that do have the same probability of staying married for a few more years as any other marriage, but it sure doesn’t mean it’s a good marriage. I’d say those that have the unicorn reconciliation is very few and far between. So rare as to not even designate a statistic.

We can probably find any statistic we want to support what we think… but realistically experiencing infidelity, and knowing people who experience it… I think we know the real success rates. Especially if we aren’t calling people who rugsweep just to stay married “successful”.


----------



## Taxman

Purple
Word of caution. Be wary of a strong stoic man. Out of several spousal battery cases, and several assault cases on the other partner, the perpetrator was the "stoic" strong individual. I will not elaborate, but will caution you to have a safe place to go, and a go-bag. Since the only thing we have to go by is your descriptions of his reactions, one can somewhat feel the anger rising. His orders to you on your surprise anniversary are kind of telling. (Had one fellow in particular, who used her birthday party as a soap-box on which to stand while he devastated her in front of every friend and relative she had. AP was in the room, and did not survive the party intact. She spent the next week in a hotel room, and found some place semi pernanent shortly thereafter. WW still has no place to go. )

I do not believe that you have even remotely begun to experience the anger phase of this. Please stay safe.


----------



## Openminded

QuietRiot said:


> I don’t believe the numbers either. I’d say most people never even find out about infidelity… And those that do have the same probability of staying married for a few more years as any other marriage, but it sure doesn’t mean it’s a good marriage. I’d say those that have the unicorn reconciliation is very few and far between. So rare as to not even designate a statistic.
> 
> We can probably find any statistic we want to support what we think… but realistically experiencing infidelity, and knowing people who experience it… I think we know the real success rates. Especially if we aren’t calling people who rugsweep just to stay married “successful”.


I agree with that. I would say the majority of people never know they’ve been cheated on because the cheater doesn’t want a divorce so they tend to be cautious. In retrospect, I think my husband likely always cheated (he traveled a lot so the opportunity was there and he also put in long hours that potentially had time available for cheating). But I also think he was very careful until he got complacent and wasn’t. If he hadn’t been a little careless that time, I never would have known since I trusted him 100% and never in a billion years expected him to cheat.


----------



## Arkansas

Taxman said:


> Purple
> Word of caution. Be wary of a strong stoic man. Out of several spousal battery cases, and several assault cases on the other partner, the perpetrator was the "stoic" strong individual. I will not elaborate, but will caution you to have a safe place to go, and a go-bag. Since the only thing we have to go by is your descriptions of his reactions, one can somewhat feel the anger rising. His orders to you on your surprise anniversary are kind of telling. (Had one fellow in particular, who used her birthday party as a soap-box on which to stand while he devastated her in front of every friend and relative she had. AP was in the room, and did not survive the party intact. She spent the next week in a hotel room, and found some place semi pernanent shortly thereafter. WW still has no place to go. )
> 
> I do not believe that you have even remotely begun to experience the anger phase of this. Please stay safe.




So yeah, not every person reacts violently. I didn't. I understand now "crimes of passion" but that's only if a person is already the violent/snapping kind I think.

For people who aren't violent like myself, the anger/hurt isn't channeled with violence. It just xxxxing hurts 

question for Purple - knowing people can be violent and all when they find out the person that promises love and devotion and honesty etc betrayed them at the ultimate level - what did you expect your husband to do when he found out ?


----------



## PurpleRoses

Arkansas said:


> So yeah, not every person reacts violently. I didn't. I understand now "crimes of passion" but that's only if a person is already the violent/snapping kind I think.
> 
> For people who aren't violent like myself, the anger/hurt isn't channeled with violence. It just xxxxing hurts
> 
> question for Purple - knowing people can be violent and all when they find out the person that promises love and devotion and honesty etc betrayed them at the ultimate level - what did you expect your husband to do when he found out ?


Well, not with his fists. He's not going to start beating me after over 20 years, hate to be a cause for disappointment here.

I didn't know what to expect. I've spent weeks looking this stuff up online and asking questions, but that was just me trying to control the situation. I need to accept that I can't control it and that it is not healthy to try to. I am trying to be supportive and help him get the help he needs if he's willing to get it. I need to work on myself too. And that means letting go of the need to control and, yes manipulate, things. 

I appreciate all the concern about my professional life, but the truth is that if I want to cheat then I can cheat. It doesn't matter where I work or if I work. I need to not want to and if I can't have that then I shouldn't be married anymore.


----------



## GusPolinski

PurpleRoses said:


> Well, not with his fists. He's not going to start beating me after over 20 years, hate to be a cause for disappointment here.
> 
> I didn't know what to expect. I've spent weeks looking this stuff up online and asking questions, but that was just me trying to control the situation. I need to accept that I can't control it and that it is not healthy to try to. I am trying to be supportive and help him get the help he needs if he's willing to get it. I need to work on myself too. And that means letting go of the need to control and, yes manipulate, things.
> 
> I appreciate all the concern about my professional life, but the truth is that if I want to cheat then I can cheat. It doesn't matter where I work or if I work. I need to not want to and if I can't have that then I shouldn't be married anymore.


Have you been able to maintain a state of no contact with OM?


----------



## re16

How often are you and your husband discussing this, or was it just kinda one main time and that was it so far? What has changed the most since telling him, if anything?


----------



## Migi

PurpleRoses said:


> Well, not with his fists. He's not going to start beating me after over 20 years, hate to be a cause for disappointment here.
> 
> I didn't know what to expect. I've spent weeks looking this stuff up online and asking questions, but that was just me trying to control the situation. I need to accept that I can't control it and that it is not healthy to try to. I am trying to be supportive and help him get the help he needs if he's willing to get it. I need to work on myself too. And that means letting go of the need to control and, yes manipulate, things.
> 
> I appreciate all the concern about my professional life, but the truth is that if I want to cheat then I can cheat. It doesn't matter where I work or if I work. I need to not want to and if I can't have that then I shouldn't be married anymore.


Yes, I agree that if you want to commit adultery, you will commit adultery regardless of whether you have continued your employment in the same company or somewhere else. However, no matter how important you and your attitude are for yourself, it is so important to understand that your husband will always have serious problems in his head whenever you go to work because he knows you will be there with the same person you cheated on him with. If you care about your husband, then that will be your priority. If you continue to behave as selfishly as you have behaved so far, then there is no need to stay married. Let your husband find a wife who will love and respect him. 

You can’t act like it’s just a matter of your decision and your life. That's how you've acted so far, so you hurt your husband badly. I don't think you are yet able to comprehend the depth of the injuries you have inflicted on him. Only he knows that. Marriage is a community in which both spouses put the other in front of them. Marriage is not for selfish people. Serious emotional problems and problems with trust in you, which your husband will have, you have caused. Don't forget that. You have to put his needs ahead of yours if you care about him. 

Some things that bother him, he may not even tell you. It all depends on what kind of person he is. You need to make sure you understand the depth of the injuries you have inflicted on him and do what is necessary to alleviate and eliminate any cause that will produce insecurity and fear in him that you will cheat again. Any contact with the person with whom you committed adultery must be stopped. Just think about how you would feel if you were cheated on by the person you love the most and that person does not want to break contact with the mistress but continues to go where the mistress is.


----------



## VladDracul

PurpleRoses said:


> It doesn't matter where I work or if I work.


PR, the folks here are going to query you to find out where you stand and how far you are willing to go to save you marriage and assuage your husband for the "misdemeanor" you committed against him. That's part of the cost of seeking advise here. Answer this if you will. If your husband said he's uncomfortable with you working there anymore, would you resign your position or seek a transfer?


----------



## Gabriel

All the stats are meaningless, honestly. I mean, other factors are involved, like

1) what type of infidelity was it (emotional or physical)
2) who was the affair with
3) how long were you married before it happened
4) do you have kids
etc, etc. etc.

Unless you have specific cohorts, the numbers tell us nothing.


----------



## EdDean

PurpleRoses said:


> Well, not with his fists. He's not going to start beating me after over 20 years, hate to be a cause for disappointment here.
> 
> I didn't know what to expect. I've spent weeks looking this stuff up online and asking questions, but that was just me trying to control the situation. I need to accept that I can't control it and that it is not healthy to try to. I am trying to be supportive and help him get the help he needs if he's willing to get it. I need to work on myself too. And that means letting go of the need to control and, yes manipulate, things.
> 
> I appreciate all the concern about my professional life, but the truth is that if I want to cheat then I can cheat. It doesn't matter where I work or if I work. I need to not want to and if I can't have that then I shouldn't be married anymore.


Hi PR. I'm glad to hear that you're trying to encourage your husband to get help. Have you considered some of the things written here about the importance of demonstrating remorse and not just apoligizing over and over? The more proactive you are towards your husband in demonstrating your desire for him to feel safe within the relationship the better. If he's reluctant to talk about how he is feeling then consider asking him the following questions: 1) Are you still comfortable with me working where I am or do I need to start looking for something else? 2) Would you feel safer with me if I signed some kind of post nuptial agreement with an infidelity clause? 3) Do you want me to delete my social media accounts and/or share passwords? 4) Should I check in with you frequently throughout the day? etc...

I realize that you can decide to cheat again if you want or choose not to if you don't. That is not what people have been talking about the last day or so. It's about doing whatever it takes, no matter how hard, to make your Husband feel safe within the relationship. If he doesn't feel safe he will never trust. If he cannot trust again he will never forgive. Good luck.


----------



## Gabriel

EdDean said:


> Hi PR. I'm glad to hear that you're trying to encourage your husband to get help. Have you considered some of the things written here about the importance of demonstrating remorse and not just apoligizing over and over? The more proactive you are towards your husband in demonstrating your desire for him to feel safe within the relationship the better. If he's reluctant to talk about how he is feeling then consider asking him the following questions: 1) Are you still comfortable with me working where I am or do I need to start looking for something else? 2) Would you feel safer with me if I signed some kind of post nuptial agreement with an infidelity clause? 3) Do you want me to delete my social media accounts and/or share passwords? 4) Should I check in with you frequently throughout the day? etc...
> 
> I realize that you can decide to cheat again if you want or choose not to if you don't. That is not what people have been talking about the last day or so. It's about doing whatever it takes, no matter how hard, to make your Husband feel safe within the relationship. If he doesn't feel safe he will never trust. If he cannot trust again he will never forgive. Good luck.


This, exactly. This is what really caring sounds like. Not waiting for him to tell you things or just saying sorry.


----------



## Harold Demure

I actually agree with you for once …..

You shouldn’t be married anymore!

In your head, despite all your “I’m so sorry, boo hoo hoo”, you think you have got away with it and there are no real ramifications.

I think there is a high % chance you are going to cheat again, and you know that.

You do not seem to want to put in the work to save your marriage. To me, you seem very callous and I think your lack of empathy and lack of positive actions show you don’t really love your husband.

The one thing I think you do love is all the attention and drama!

Why not just be honest here and leave him so that the next time you do it then at least it wouldn’t be cheating.

Setting him free would probably be the one honest thing you will do.

Yes, he will hurt at first but I think that will be less than the lifetime of hurt he will have to endure if he stays with you


----------



## QuietRiot

Gabriel said:


> All the stats are meaningless, honestly. I mean, other factors are involved, like
> 
> 1) what type of infidelity was it (emotional or physical)
> 2) who was the affair with
> 3) how long were you married before it happened
> 4) do you have kids
> etc, etc. etc.
> 
> Unless you have specific cohorts, the numbers tell us nothing.


I think the only stat that matters now is that she 100% cheated on her husband. We will see what he decides to do with that. It sure seems likely at this juncture that she will repeat the transgression.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Arkansas said:


> everyone pretty much knows when they do it they're destroying the fabric of their lives


Cotton is really nice though, the touch, the feel…


----------



## Cuobs

.


----------



## ABHale

PurpleRoses said:


> I'm ok I guess. I did tell him and it was a difficult weekend. He didn't really get angry with me. He's mostly shocked and disappointed in me. He had a hard time believing it. And no matter what I say he keeps wanting to blame himself, it always comes back to that. He didn't kick me out or call me any names. We spent the weekend together and he wants a lot of physical contact like holding hands and putting his arm over me when we went to bed. We only talked about the affiar the first night for the most part. He's very upset about it, but is still being himself and trying to make me laugh. He's worried about me, it makes me feel guilty that he's worried about how I'm feeling but that's just the way he is. He still loves me, but a lot of trust has been broken and I don't know if he will ever trust me again like he did.
> 
> He's picking up the kids right now and he doesn't want any hint dropped to them.


Rug sweeping or ignoring what happened never works out. It will come back and make things worse


----------



## marko polo

Cuobs said:


> I think she is a woman with extraordinary powers of analysis and self-control who screwed up big time by having an affair and she knows it.


*If* she were a woman with extraordinary powers of analysis and self-control she would not have chosen to have an affair. She wouldn't have lost any sleep or suffered anxiety over her choices.


----------



## ABHale

PurpleRoses said:


> Well, not with his fists. He's not going to start beating me after over 20 years, hate to be a cause for disappointment here.
> 
> I didn't know what to expect. I've spent weeks looking this stuff up online and asking questions, but that was just me trying to control the situation. I need to accept that I can't control it and that it is not healthy to try to. I am trying to be supportive and help him get the help he needs if he's willing to get it. I need to work on myself too. And that means letting go of the need to control and, yes manipulate, things.
> 
> I appreciate all the concern about my professional life, but the truth is that if I want to cheat then I can cheat. It doesn't matter where I work or if I work. I need to not want to and if I can't have that then I shouldn't be married anymore.


You sarcasm about what can happen is misplaced. Your husband can be working on a way to completely ruin your life with out any violence. Your not worth going to jail over, your just a lying cheater. If you read some of the things the stoic man is capable of doing when cheated on, you are a fool not to take a word of caution.

So your anniversary is about a week away and you gave your husband the best gift any loving wife could give their husband, a broken marriage. The fact that he couldn’t keep you satisfied in bed. Him knowing he is second best to your lover, seeing how you only ended it out of guilt. What a wonderful gift you have given him.

You don’t love your husband. You love the things that go along with being married to him but you don’t love him.

The icing on the ****cake you have made for your husband is your lover showing up for your anniversary party. Surprise!!! Here your husband is believing he was just a friend. Can you imagine their conversation when he invited your lover!!! I wonder if he was invited right after he had you.

I will go with what others have said. You don’t love your husband.

Being the kid of a mom that cheated, you should tell your kids what happened. Better it comes from the two of you then them finding out on their own like I did. You get to control the situation that way and are there to help. Your kids world isn’t falling apart with you not knowing when they figure it out.


----------



## Sfort

As a group, we may be losing our touch. I'm surprised at how much advice and counsel were offered to OP considering how she was not forthcoming with the requested details. Some of the unanswered questions are critical to be able to provide competent advice. Oh, well. At least her husband is going to let her slide. She's very lucky, in one sense.


----------



## VladDracul

ABHale said:


> The icing on the ****cake you have made for your husband is your lover showing up for your anniversary party. Surprise!!! Here your husband is believing he was just a friend. Can you imagine their conversation when he invited your lover!!! I wonder if he was invited right after he had you.


Two assumptions we are making that may be a bit off:

1. How her husband feels about her cheating. It can range from he rally doesn't consider it a bad thing (open marriage attitude) to a cuckold, and everything in between.

2. The husband invited her then undisclosed paramour to the parties meaning he knew this cat was close to the wife despite these two purportedly working well away from each other. She must have talked about this " friend" with her old man.


----------



## ABHale

VladDracul said:


> Two assumptions we are making that may be a bit off:
> 
> 1. How her husband feels about her cheating. It can range from he rally doesn't consider it a bad thing (open marriage attitude) to a cuckold, and everything in between.
> 
> 2. The husband invited her then undisclosed paramour to the parties meaning he knew this cat was close to the wife despite these two working purportedly working well away from each other. She must have talked about this " friend" with her old man.


OP said that her husband invited her lover before he knew.

Once he knew about her lover he told her to uninvited him.

I am just speculating that her lover might be bold enough to show up still.

Assume nothing and expect the unexpected.


----------



## PurpleRoses

re16 said:


> How often are you and your husband discussing this, or was it just kinda one main time and that was it so far? What has changed the most since telling him, if anything?


We have talked more about it. He's asked about some sexual stuff and it's very difficult for me to talk about that. I don't even really talk with my girlfriends about that stuff.


----------



## PurpleRoses

ABHale said:


> OP said that her husband invited her lover before he knew.
> 
> Once he knew about her lover he told her to uninvited him.
> 
> I am just speculating that her lover might be bold enough to show up still.
> 
> Assume nothing and expect the unexpected.


No, he was never going to show up. I briefly spoke to him and he just didn't say anything because he didn't want to ruin anything. He knows how I feel about the whole thing.


----------



## SRCSRC

PR: The 64 Dollar question is whether you will go no contact with your affair partner. Or do you intend to keep some contact and maybe be just a friend? Can you handle never seeing or talking to him again? Are you willing to do that? Also, is he married or with a girlfriend?


----------



## SRCSRC

I must say that your affair partner was so considerate that he didn’t want to show up and ruin anything. Where was that consideration when he decided to start screwing you? He totally f..ked up your husband and your marriage, with your complicity, of course.


----------



## PurpleRoses

SRCSRC said:


> PR: The 64 Dollar question is whether you will go no contact with your affair partner. Or do you intend to keep some contact and maybe be just a friend? Can you handle never seeing or talking to him again? Are you willing to do that? Also, is he married or with a girlfriend?


No, I'm not still friends with him, that isn't even a possibility after what happened. I am mature enough to be able to see him or briefly speak to him. I'm not on bad terms with him, just being friends never works after that. 

He isn't married and he's single. Before anyone starts with the how do you know stuff, I've known him for years and I've been to his place. I don't talk about him, because this isn't about him.


----------



## GusPolinski

PurpleRoses said:


> No, I'm not still friends with him, that isn't even a possibility after what happened. I am mature enough to be able to see him or briefly speak to him. I'm not on bad terms with him, just being friends never works after that.


Be careful that you do not mistake naiveté for maturity — on either your part or your husband’s.



PurpleRoses said:


> He isn't married and he's single. Before anyone starts with the how do you know stuff, I've known him for years and I've been to his place. *I don't talk about him, because this isn't about him.*


It may surprise you to learn that, from your husband’s perspective, it’s at least in part about OM.


----------



## jsmart

PurpleRoses said:


> No, he was never going to show up. I briefly spoke to him and he just didn't say anything because he didn't want to ruin anything. He knows how I feel about the whole thing.


You spoke to the OM ? He knows how you feel? Purple, how are you going to be able to maintain no contact? Do you even understand how painful it was for your husband to tell you to uninvite your lover to the 20th anniversary celebration he was secretly planning? Man, my heart breaks for your husband. Can’t even imagine how crushed he must be to learn that while he was secretly planning a surprise celebration, you were giving your body to some guy that he has hung out with. I really hope you’re doing your best to alleviate the pain he’s feeling. A lonely feeling too, because he’s hiding this. Can’t imagine not having someone to talk to about this.


----------



## Harold Demure

There is another perspective to this.

Does her husband’s relatively calm reaction to her disclosure mean that he is actually totally apathetic towards her cheating and really doesn’t care because he doesn’t love her?

Indifference by a betrayed partner must be more worrying for a cheater than anger etc. 

Don’t know if there are any examples of BS indifference on here.


----------



## rugswept

You owe him an answer to this "tough questions". How "tough" do you think this is for him. 
Believe me on this: tell him the real whole truth when he asks questions or it will seem like you're holding back. 
He'll ask again on these things and you better have the same answer. 

It'll be easier for him to live with the truth as it was as opposed to uncertainty and lies about any of it. 
If you think you're uncomfortable, you should feel how it's like to be in his skin.


----------



## GusPolinski

Harold Demure said:


> There is another perspective to this.
> 
> Does her husband’s relatively calm reaction to her disclosure mean that he is actually totally apathetic towards her cheating and really doesn’t care because he doesn’t love her?
> 
> Indifference by a betrayed partner must be more worrying for a cheater than anger etc.
> 
> Don’t know if there are any examples of BS indifference on here.


It’s more likely a combo of numbness and shock.


----------



## Harold Demure

GusPolinski said:


> It’s more likely a combo of numbness and shock.


You are probably right but there is something wrong with the way in which his reaction is reported - just something off. (Admin, not suggesting this is a troll at all just saying it is an unusual reaction)


----------



## GusPolinski

Harold Demure said:


> You are probably right but there is something wrong with the way in which his reaction is reported - just something off. (Admin, not suggesting this is a troll at all just saying it is an unusual reaction)


Well we’re getting it secondhand and from his WW. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I get that they’ve been together forever but honestly, at least right now, a fellow BH is more likely to know what’s going on in his head than she is. Hell, you can read that in some of her latest updates.


----------



## Zedd

It's not that unusual. Some people come in and give a ton of details. She answers questions very direct. No need to use 25 words when 5 will do. Does it make it more difficult for us to assist and provide feedback and ripe for massive supposition and reading between the lines, for sure, but it's her call to disclose what she feels is relevant.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Harold Demure said:


> There is another perspective to this.
> 
> Does her husband’s relatively calm reaction to her disclosure mean that he is actually totally apathetic towards her cheating and really doesn’t care because he doesn’t love her?
> 
> Indifference by a betrayed partner must be more worrying for a cheater than anger etc.
> 
> Don’t know if there are any examples of BS indifference on here.


What on earth are you talking about? He is deeply upset over this. We talked about it all night and then barely moved from bed the next day. I don't mean having sex, I mean no motivation to move. All I said, was that he didn't throw me out or hurl abuse at me. How can anyone translate that to "indifference"?


----------



## Rus47

Sfort said:


> As a group, we may be losing our touch. *I'm surprised at how much advice and counsel were offered to OP considering how she was not forthcoming with the requested details. Some of the unanswered questions are critical to be able to provide competent advice*. Oh, well. At least her husband is going to let her slide. She's very lucky, in one sense.


As usual, you are on target, lot of us have been typing with very little info. The OP for some reason ignores most questions, so even answering her original question "is it ok to ask for forgiveness?" ought to be "that depends".. It took 28 pages for her to answer that her lover boy is single, admonishing that this thread isn't about him.


----------



## Cletus

PurpleRoses said:


> What on earth are you talking about? He is deeply upset over this. We talked about it all night and then barely moved from bed the next day. I don't mean having sex, I mean no motivation to move. All I said, was that he didn't throw me out or hurl abuse at me. How can anyone translate that to "indifference"?


Oh, this place excels at nothing more than projection. Which is completely understandable.


----------



## Marc878

GusPolinski said:


> It’s more likely a combo of numbness and shock.


I’ve seen this play out before. When the door of infidelity is opened you don’t know what’s going to come out of it.
Some can get through it but it’ll always be there in some form.
Others will have long term heartburn and end up divorcing. I know one who stayed 5 years with a very remorseful wife who did everything possible but ended up divorcing.
Some go out and have their own affairs.
It’s early and not predictable at all.


----------



## Marc878

PurpleRoses said:


> What on earth are you talking about? He is deeply upset over this. We talked about it all night and then barely moved from bed the next day. I don't mean having sex, I mean no motivation to move. All I said, was that he didn't throw me out or hurl abuse at me. How can anyone translate that to "indifference"?


He’s in shock. He’s dealing with infidelity like most who never thought this would be a problem in his life. Depression may follow. It’s definitely not indifference.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Marc878 said:


> He’s in shock. He’s dealing with infidelity like most who never thought this would be a problem in his life. Depression may follow. It’s definitely not indifference.


Yes, and I am very worried about him. When I say he is very upset, I mean he has been crying and the only other time I can remember him crying is when the dog died. I never said stoic, indifferent, ok with it or anything like that.


----------



## EdDean

PurpleRoses said:


> What on earth are you talking about? He is deeply upset over this. We talked about it all night and then barely moved from bed the next day. I don't mean having sex, I mean no motivation to move. All I said, was that he didn't throw me out or hurl abuse at me. How can anyone translate that to "indifference"?





PurpleRoses said:


> No, I'm not still friends with him, that isn't even a possibility after what happened. I am mature enough to be able to see him or briefly speak to him. I'm not on bad terms with him, just being friends never works after that.
> 
> He isn't married and he's single. Before anyone starts with the how do you know stuff, I've known him for years and I've been to his place. I don't talk about him, because this isn't about him.


The only thing that matters is what your husband needs to feel safe. No safety. No trust. No forgiveness. That is what you said you wanted at the beginning of this discussion.

Have you actually asked him? Are you comfortable with me still having occasional work related contact with this man?

If he says yes then I guess one has to respect his decision. But honestly though, strict and absolute NC with the AP is the basic starting point to the successful reconciliation. I just can’t imagine it working without it.


----------



## EdDean

PurpleRoses said:


> Yes, and I am very worried about him. When I say he is very upset, I mean he has been crying and the only other time I can remember him crying is when the dog died. I never said stoic, indifferent, ok with it or anything like that.


Please cancel this party. The stress of it is going to be brutal for him.


----------



## Harold Demure

I am not sure that you have really told us anything about his reactions Well, I offer full apologies if I have missed it but this seems to be the first time you have really opened up about your husband's reaction and feelings. Many posters on here have commented on his apparent lack of reaction and your reticence to answer questions. Your latest posts, to me, make you appear more empathetic and less callous and I would encourage to be more open if you want a more positive reaction and help from people on here.


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## SRCSRC

PR: I strongly suggest that you look at EdDean's post. For reconciliation to have a chance you have to go no contact with your AP from this point forward. It's not about your maturity, it's about your dedication to reconciliation and helping your husband feel like you are a safe partner. It's not about you, it's all about your husband's recovery. You say you want to help him, then start by going no-contact with your affair partner forever. Your response to my prior question says otherwise. That shouldn't be hard unless you don't want to do it. Getting information out of you is like pulling teeth. It seems that you are unwilling to do much to help your husband heal. Maybe you are taking steps, but it is not getting across to us. If you don't care to do that, why are you here? I don't get it. We're all guessing what the hell is going on.

Also, how in the hell are you two going through with this party? How will your husband hold it together? I just can't imagine having to go through something like that after what has happened.


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## Marc878

If you have any contact with your AP the chances of the affair continuing are high. Don’t be naive here. It is your choice as is trying to save the marriage. What’s that worth to you?

However, if it does end up in divorce then you will have to fend for yourself. Quite a quandary isn’t it?


----------



## Marc878

EdDean said:


> Please cancel this party. The stress of it is going to be brutal for him.


Yep. This 100%.


----------



## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> No, I'm not still friends with him, that isn't even a possibility after what happened. I am mature enough to be able to see him or briefly speak to him. I'm not on bad terms with him, just being friends never works after that.
> 
> He isn't married and he's single. Before anyone starts with the how do you know stuff, I've known him for years and I've been to his place. I don't talk about him, because this isn't about him.


First- If you desire to reconcile with your husband and your kids, you have to accept that what you think, how you believe you can act, does not matter. At this point what matters is almost entirely what your husband has thought, does think, and will think. And you can trust probably every single person here who is saying the same thing.

You cannot have any contact whatsoever with your AP. You cannot be thinking in terms of reasonableness (such as the difficulty of finding a new job, if it came to that). 

Second- The 20th Anniversary party must be cancelled, and you have a perfectly reasonable excuse. "After giving it a lot of thought, we've decided that we're not comfortable with a party while Covid is still such a big deal. Delta kind of threw a wrench into things. We realize the uncomfortable position we put those we invited into as well. We appreciate your blessings on our marriage during these difficult times."

Third- In another post you mentioned he was asking about the sex with your AP, and you felt uncomfortable. You weren't sure beforehand if this would be an issue... those of us who have been through similar things did suggest this was likely. You are in GREAT danger of intentionally or unintentionally engaging in trickle-truthing which is a certain way to prolong the pain & suffering and reduce the chances of reconciliation. Get to work on that absolutely-accurate & leaves-nothing-out accounting for what went on. When it started. What was the catalyst for deciding to f. Did he wear a condom. How many times. Where. When. Were there texts. How can he see them. It's all going to come up. Get it over with so he can end the mind movies. That's probably why he's crying. He's going over and over and over this stuff in his head, imagining ever-worse scenarios. It doesn't get better, at least not for a very long time. For him it will just get progressively worse, until he actually knows pretty much everything.

Fourth- This is going to consume his life, and if you wish to salvage your marriage and family, it's going to consume you as well. If that creates any sense of bitterness in you, you're toast. Just get a divorce and leave ASAP if you're likely to feel bitter or angry about everything you're going to have to do.

I hope you're up to this. He sounds like a good guy. I'm worried about him. He's reacting like I would/have. Betrayal in a marriage is not something you are prepared to handle.


----------



## Al_Bundy

Try to get him to seek counseling for himself. He's going through a form of being "zeroed out". It's a term usually applied to a guy whose wife cheats and then leaves with most of his assets. While that definition doesn't currently apply here he has been zeroed out in the sense that he very well may feel like he now has nothing. The greatest danger to guys like this is suicide. I know that might seem dramatic but I've talked to guys who have literally had a loaded gun in their mouth and were seconds away from ending it. 

Because it's not just about what you did. Guys often don't tell their wives about everything they are dealing with. He could already be carrying a heavy load that you didn't even know about, now this.

Best of luck for you both.


----------



## VladDracul

Casual Observer said:


> The 20th Anniversary party must be cancelled, and you have a perfectly reasonable excuse.


From what I'm reading, PR doesn't seem to type to let her husband's feeling crimp her lifestyle and goals. There really seems to be a lot of, "He knows and what he does with it is his responsibility" in her DNA and a little ice water running through her veins. She responds to the questions with easy answers and disregards the rest. Hence the tendency of some to treat her like a hostile witness.



Harold Demure said:


> You are probably right but there is something wrong with the way in which his reaction is reported - just something off. (Admin, not suggesting this is a troll at all just saying it is an unusual reaction)


If I didn't know better, I'd think her post could have somewhat of a "male font" to them.


----------



## LATERILUS79

VladDracul said:


> From what I'm reading, PR doesn't seem to type to let her husband's feeling crimp her lifestyle and goals. There really seems to be a lot of, "He knows and what he does with it is his responsibility" in her DNA and a little ice water running through her veins. She responds to the questions with easy answers and disregards the rest. Hence the tendency of some to treat her like a hostile witness.
> 
> 
> 
> If I didn't know better, I'd think her post could have somewhat of a "male font" to them.


It’s her flippancy of it all that concerns me. I hope her husband moves on and finds happiness in his life once he gets out of this shock.


----------



## SRCSRC

One other point. Aside from going completely no contact with your affair partner forever, you must do the same with any friends who enabled or encouraged you to cheat. You mentioned that a few friends knew about your affair. Are they going to be in attendance at the party? I just can't imagine what they would be thinking? The utter complete hypocrisy. They are as despicable as your affair partner. And, yes, your affair partner is despicable regardless of what you seem to think.


----------



## Zedd

LATERILUS79 said:


> It’s her flippancy of it all that concerns me. I hope her husband moves on and finds happiness in his life once he gets out of this shock.


I don't think she's been flippant. She's just not given a lot of information which is causing most of the posters here to try to fill in the gaps.

For example, prior to disclosing her husband's behavior, she's never said one way or the other how he was reacting. Too many people assumed he was shrugging it off, when nothing she's posted indicated that in any way. She didn't say very much about it at all.


----------



## jsmart

PurpleRoses said:


> Yes, and I am very worried about him. When I say he is very upset, I mean he has been crying and the only other time I can remember him crying is when the dog died. I never said stoic, indifferent, ok with it or anything like that.


He’s crying because he’s completely broken. To go from the excitement of planning a surprise for your wife to celebrate the 20 year landmark anniversary to having her confess that she’s been F’ing a guy that I’ve hung out with is quite a lot to absorb. 

You’re kids are nearing their exit to their own lives and you drop this bomb on the family. Yes, that’s right, the family. Just because your husband wants to keep the shame he feels from his kids, doesn’t stop the fact that your betrayal included them too. Yet despite that, you actually are saying you’re not on bad terms with him. Well you should be. This is the man that helped you give those emotional wounds that your husband is crying over. Your kids would be crying too, if they knew what you did to their father. I bet they also know this fine gentlemen.


----------



## EdDean

Al_Bundy said:


> Try to get him to seek counseling for himself. He's going through a form of being "zeroed out". It's a term usually applied to a guy whose wife cheats and then leaves with most of his assets. While that definition doesn't currently apply here he has been zeroed out in the sense that he very well may feel like he now has nothing. The greatest danger to guys like this is suicide. I know that might seem dramatic but I've talked to guys who have literally had a loaded gun in their mouth and were seconds away from ending it.
> 
> Because it's not just about what you did. Guys often don't tell their wives about everything they are dealing with. He could already be carrying a heavy load that you didn't even know about, now this.
> 
> Best of luck for you both.


Very very dangerous time for him. I strongly encourage individual counseling for him with someone trained in PTSD and Betryal Trauma


----------



## VladDracul

Zedd said:


> Too many people assumed he was shrugging it off, when nothing she's posted indicated that in any way. She didn't say very much about it at all.


Indeed. When she talks, what does she talk about?


----------



## Openminded

At least you told him. Most cheaters never do that. They don’t want a divorce and that becomes a real possibility once the betrayed spouse knows. I agree the party should be cancelled.


----------



## Willnotbill

PurpleRoses said:


> No, I'm not still friends with him, that isn't even a possibility after what happened. I am mature enough to be able to see him or briefly speak to him. I'm not on bad terms with him, just being friends never works after that.
> 
> He isn't married and he's single. Before anyone starts with the how do you know stuff, I've known him for years and I've been to his place. *I don't talk about him, because this isn't about him.*


If a married person hooks up or has an affair with an unknown person, its quite possible that AP would not know the person they are with is married unless they are told. When the AP knows the betrayed spouse then its a whole different issue in my opinion and it is also about him or her.



PurpleRoses said:


> Yes, and I am very worried about him. When I say he is very upset, I mean he has been crying and the only other time I can remember him crying is when the dog died. I never said stoic, indifferent, ok with it or anything like that.


I think the OP has a very long road ahead of her if she is able to repair the marriage. Her husband is not going to be ok with what happened in a week or a month. It will be years and it will never go away completely. He will go through a range of emotions during this time and their is nothing that will comfort him. Many people have tried various methods like alcohol or their own affair but it doesn't help.


----------



## PurpleRoses

VladDracul said:


> Indeed. When she talks, what does she talk about?


Okay, I'm not a perfect person and yes, I'm selfish and I don't know if I'm a narcissist or not. I've read that a true narcissist wouldn't consider the possibility but I really don't know. I do care for my family and I feel about as low as I can possibly feel. I'm not going to pretend this is the first selfish thing I've ever done, it's the worst, but not even close to the first. But I want to get better and I want to work on myself. I don't even know why I keep coming back here, I think part of me wants to read nasty and hopeless things because that's how I feel. My husband calls it my inner masochist. He says it joking but maybe it's not a joke.


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## Marc878

PurpleRoses said:


> Yes, and I am very worried about him. When I say he is very upset, I mean he has been crying and the only other time I can remember him crying is when the dog died. I never said stoic, indifferent, ok with it or anything like that.


He’s laying there probably having the *infamous mind movies *of you having sex with your affair partner.


----------



## Marc878

PurpleRoses said:


> Okay, I'm not a perfect person and yes, I'm selfish and I don't know if I'm a narcissist or not. I've read that a true narcissist wouldn't consider the possibility but I really don't know. I do care for my family and I feel about as low as I can possibly feel. I'm not going to pretend this is the first selfish thing I've ever done, it's the worst, but not even close to the first. But I want to get better and I want to work on myself. I don't even know why I keep coming back here, I think part of me wants to read nasty and hopeless things because that's how I feel. My husband calls it my inner masochist. He says it joking but maybe it's not a joke.


You need to find some good IC for your self. Research first. A lot of these people are morons and cause even more damage. They are not Gods. If you don’t like it switch to another until you find the right one.

Do not make the mistake of jumping into marriage counseling. You’d be extremely lucky to find a decent one and it wasn’t the marriage that was broken it was you. Concentrate on that first.


----------



## GusPolinski

Openminded said:


> At least you told him. Most cheaters never do that. They don’t want a divorce and that becomes a real possibility once the betrayed spouse knows. I agree the party should be cancelled.


I’d leave the party thing up to her BH, because if they cancel he’s gonna have a ton of people asking HIM questions (remember — it’s supposed to be a surprise party) about why and what happened, etc. A lot of BHs don’t want to anyone else to know that their wives have cheated, at least not up front, and he might not be prepared for that.

And honestly he might like to have an evening pretending like everything is normal.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

PurpleRoses said:


> Yes, and I am very worried about him. When I say he is very upset, I mean he has been crying and the only other time I can remember him crying is when the dog died. I never said stoic, indifferent, ok with it or anything like that.


Hope all the ****ing you got was worth destroying your life, husband and marriage for. Because in the end, that's your new reality. Cancel the party yourself. Don't let him have to make that decision.


----------



## Zedd

PurpleRoses said:


> But I want to get better and I want to work on myself. I don't even know why I keep coming back here, I think part of me wants to read nasty and hopeless things because that's how I feel.


I genuinely believe your first statement, or you wouldn't be here. As such, you can find some good things through some of the nasty you'll read here.

If your husband isn't entirely forthcoming with information, by reading a lot of the stuff the people who have been previously betrayed on here have gone through, it might help you fill in some gaps for him, or know what to ask him, or how to help him handle his various moods.

I think you'll also find that people here will generally help you, should you have questions. There are a handful of people who were the betrayers as well. Above all, the best thing you can do, and it certainly sounds like you are, is continue to answer anything he asks as honestly as possible, even when it makes you absurdly uncomfortable. More than anything, you need him to know you absolutely will not withhold or hide anything from him.

Good luck.


----------



## Zedd

Tested_by_stress said:


> Hope all the ****ing you got was worth destroying your life, husband and marriage for. Because in the end, that's your new reality. Cancel the party yourself. Don't let him have to make that decision.


Disagree. Let him cancel it if he can't handle it. It's entirely his choice. He may want to power through it because he isn't ready to handle the infidelity publicly yet, and if he cancels, questions will certainly be asked.


----------



## rugswept

The uncontrollable crying is very telling. That shows how deeply affected he is and he's disintegrated emotionally completely. Deep crying comes from massive grief and in some cases a sign of a nervous breakdown. This isn't to be seen as minor. From here on he'll internalize the hell he's living. Big Time. And, he's at the start of a really bad ride on the emotional rollercoaster. When it starts like that it's the full boat, all paid for and no way to get off. 

I lived it and know how this goes. I'll say it again, BS is me.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Wow. Lots of people here making assumptions about her BH, wondering if he's going to go off the rails and lose his sh*t at the party. You know, everyone deals with trauma differently. There are a few rare guys who lose their minds and just start swinging, then there are the slow burn guys who let it build and then snap and go postal. I think they are actually a rarity. Most men, I would say a good 90% ( that is a WAG number on my part) are conscientious guys who either want to save their marriage, or they want some way to exit the stage with their self esteem intact without bumping into the scenery. I think with OP her husband will go either one of two ways: he will stay stoic, rugsweep it, and the marriage will die a slow lingering death; or he will stay chilly and bide his time -- he will sock away money, get his legal ducks in a row, all the while playing nice and calm. Then one day while OP is out he will pack up his stuff and she will come home to a half-empty house with a wedding ring and divorce petition laying on the kitchen table. That scenario is my prediction. If OP's husband is smart, he knows having her quit her job or getting her fired will land him in a lifetime of paying her alimony. Of course he doesn't want that to happen, so he will play nice and keep his poker hand hidden from her until it's time for him to show. He needs her to stay employed.


----------



## GusPolinski

ArthurGPym said:


> Wow. Lots of people here making assumptions about her BH, wondering if he's going to go off the rails and lose his sh*t at the party. You know, everyone deals with trauma differently. There are a few rare guys who lose their minds and just start swinging, then there are the slow burn guys who let it build and then snap and go postal. I think they are actually a rarity. Most men, I would say a good 90% ( that is a WAG number on my part) are conscientious guys who either want to save their marriage, or they want some way to exit the stage with their self esteem intact without bumping into the scenery. I think with OP her husband will go either one of two ways: he will stay stoic, rugsweep it, and the marriage will die a slow lingering death; or he will stay chilly and bide his time -- he will sock away money, get his legal ducks in a row, all the while playing nice and calm. Then one day while OP is out he will pack up his stuff and she will come home to a half-empty house with a wedding ring and divorce petition laying on the kitchen table. That scenario is my prediction. If OP's husband is smart, he knows having her quit her job or getting her fired will land him in a lifetime of paying her alimony. Of course he doesn't want that to happen, so he will play nice and keep his poker hand hidden from her until it's time for him to show. He needs her to stay employed.


Right now he’s still processing everything. A lot of BSs are just as unprepared for the discovery of an affair as their WSs are to disclose it. She did some research ahead of her confession so she was a little ahead of him.

And I’ll give OP props — she did confess and does seem to be at least somewhat contrite regarding her actions. Definitely not the usual wayward scenario that we see play out here. Usually it’s tens of pages trying to get a BS (and usually a BH) to get a read of the terrain so that they can see the forest for the trees.

It would be great to hear from her BH.

@PurpleRoses, have you suggested to your husband that he post here (or anywhere) as well?


----------



## Rus47

ArthurGPym said:


> Wow. Lots of people here making assumptions about her BH, wondering if he's going to go off the rails and lose his sh*t at the party. You know, everyone deals with trauma differently. There are a few rare guys who lose their minds and just start swinging, then there are the slow burn guys who let it build and then snap and go postal. I think they are actually a rarity. Most men, I would say a good 90% ( that is a WAG number on my part) are conscientious guys who either want to save their marriage, or they want some way to exit the stage with their self esteem intact without bumping into the scenery. I think with OP her husband will go either one of two ways: he will stay stoic, rugsweep it, and the marriage will die a slow lingering death; or he will stay chilly and bide his time -- he will sock away money, get his legal ducks in a row, all the while playing nice and calm. Then one day while OP is out he will pack up his stuff and she will come home to a half-empty house with a wedding ring and divorce petition laying on the kitchen table. That scenario is my prediction. If OP's husband is smart, *he knows having her quit her job or getting her fired will land him in a lifetime of paying her alimony.* Of course he doesn't want that to happen, so he will play nice and keep his poker hand hidden from her until it's time for him to show. *He needs her to stay employed.*


For his sake I surely hope he is as you describe, chilly and biding his time. If a man decides he wants rid of the WW, what you describe is a good path forward. I for one hope your prediction becomes reality. But, they are in Canada, so have no idea of how divorce goes up there. 

The problem is, this betrayal after being married for a long time is still very fresh for him. Hard to imagine he has arrived at the chilly stage yet.


----------



## SRCSRC

I don't want to beat up on you. I'd rather see you make real progress and save your marriage. I really do, but your responses make it so difficult. Hopefully, you are much more candid with your husband. You have to face certain realities in order to help your husband. If your husband can be helped then there is hope for you and your marriage. Here is a list of realities and questions you must ask yourself.
1. Honestly, do you really want to save your marriage? If not, be honest with yourself and your husband.
2. To save your marriage and help your husband heal, you cannot have any contact with your AP ever again, period. You must do everything in your power to avoid further contact and communication with the AP. You must tell your husband that is your intention. If you do run into the AP despite your best efforts to avoid him, do not engage. Simply walk away. Advise your husband what you did. This is a non-negotiable point for reconciliation. You seem reluctant to take this obvious step. Do you still have feelings for your AP? Your assurance that your maturity can handle future contact sounds hollow. If you can't go NC in order to help your husband and save the marriage, then the answer to number one becomes clear.
3. Go into counseling with someone versed in infidelity. I urge you to be 100% honest with the therapist or you are wasting your time and money. There are therapists out there that automatically will shift significant blame to the betrayed spouse. You should immediately look for another therapist if you run across one of these people. They are worthless and cause more damage than help. I speak from experience and have read many similar complaints.
4. In your mind, is the affair truly over? Do you have residual feelings for the AP? Be honest with yourself. Your reluctance to go NC and not be repulsed by AP is problematic. You should despise him by now. Yes, the affair is also about him. He was a major participant. He is still around to some degree.
5. Seek a transfer or get a new job. If you can continue to work at home, great. But, certainly do not go back to the office until everyone else returns if you refuse to leave. If your husband wants you to leave, do it without argument. Believe me, he wants you to leave, regardless of what he says. You should do that to save your marriage and make yourself a safe partner.
6. "Friends" that knew about your affair and helped enable or encourage it must be dumped, period.
7.. I believe you when you say that you are hurting. Do you hurt bad enough to take the necessary steps to help your husband and save the marriage? I commend you for coming clean. It is very tempting to now rug sweep this entire mess. To be honest, it might work. It certainly didn't work in my case and in many accounts that I have read. I do know that you will have to assure your husband from now on that you are a safe partner. This is done by word and deed. This should be done all the time. That is the minimum you can do for him. It is something you must do forever.


----------



## jlg07

Marc878 said:


> If you have any contact with your AP the chances of the affair continuing are high. Don’t be naive here. It is your choice as is trying to save the marriage. What’s that worth to you?
> 
> However, if it does end up in divorce then you will have to fend for yourself. Quite a quandary isn’t it?


Even if they DON'T rekindle the affair, how do you think her H will feel knowing that she still talks to him?


----------



## sideways

Speaking of friends who knew about the affair. 

Are any of them coming to the party?

Has your husband asked you who else knew?


----------



## CatholicDad

Hey PR, not excusing you or anything- what you did was awful... but if it makes you feel any better... if hubby is a porn user like presumably the other 99% of men on the planet... he’s “cheated” too.... at least in his heart.


----------



## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't even know why I keep coming back here, I think part of me wants to read nasty and hopeless things because that's how I feel. My husband calls it my inner masochist. He says it joking but maybe it's not a joke.


The best reason for coming here is that you get to understand what your husband (and kids) are, and will be, going through. It is unlikely anything you read here will impact your basic behavior but if at least you know how you effect others, that’s a really good thing.

But first things first. Cancel that party!!! Otherwise your anniversary will forever be a reminder, a trigger, of the absolute lowest point in your life. And even worse for your husband.


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## Harold Demure

PurpleRoses said:


> Okay, I'm not a perfect person and yes, I'm selfish and I don't know if I'm a narcissist or not. I've read that a true narcissist wouldn't consider the possibility but I really don't know. I do care for my family and I feel about as low as I can possibly feel. I'm not going to pretend this is the first selfish thing I've ever done, it's the worst, but not even close to the first. But I want to get better and I want to work on myself. I don't even know why I keep coming back here, I think part of me wants to read nasty and hopeless things because that's how I feel. My husband calls it my inner masochist. He says it joking but maybe it's not a joke.


I hope you keep coming back because we can help you, we just need you to open up and be more receptive to the advice given on here.

We need you to open up to your feelings, not be reticent about giving information and to not be defensive.

By doing this we can see i) how you AND your husband are feeling and what you are thinking; ii) we can use our experience and knowledge to tailor advice on what worked and didn't work for us; iii) just provide an arena for you to vent. 

Believe it or not, the vast majority of people on here want to see the best outcome for everyone, be it reconciliation or divorce. 

For example, there have been a lot of posts listing actions you could take because these speak louder than words. I most certainly do not expect you to accept all of them but I like the idea that they could form the basis of discussion between you and your husband asking him "would you like me to ...."

No secret here, I really didn't like the person you have presented so far and my replies reflected that. You don't need to hear nasty and hopeless things about you. You can hear positive things but, I'm afraid, that is going to be down to your attitude on here. 

I think this is an objective point of view because a lot of people have talked about how your posts do not reflect you in a good light.

Give us a go, put some trust in us and do not see being open as a weakness. It is not, it is a strength


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## ArthurGPym

PurpleRoses said:


> Okay, I'm not a perfect person and yes, I'm selfish and I don't know if I'm a narcissist or not. I've read that a true narcissist wouldn't consider the possibility but I really don't know. I do care for my family and I feel about as low as I can possibly feel. I'm not going to pretend this is the first selfish thing I've ever done, it's the worst, but not even close to the first. But I want to get better and I want to work on myself. I don't even know why I keep coming back here, I think part of me wants to read nasty and hopeless things because that's how I feel. My husband calls it my inner masochist. He says it joking but maybe it's not a joke.


Honestly I don't think people here have been all that "nasty" as you say. Yeah there have been some slings and arrows, but you need to develop a thick skin if you are going to save your marriage. Look, you have said that other than the usual taking each other for granted and midlife boredom, there was nothing really fundamentally wrong with your marriage. At least that is what I have gathered from what you have written. You blew up your marriage and family for some strange; for a few cheap orgasms. So, yeah, I think you do deserve some derision, maybe not from us here on TAM, but you better get ready for it from your family and friends. 

Get yourself into some intense individual counseling to get to the center of why your personal boundaries are nonexistent. Marriage counseling is premature. There is no marriage to counsel. Your marriage is destroyed, nuked, muerto. There are two people who are now strangers because of your actions. This is all on you, all of it. Your husband is laying in the operating room with a gaping hole in his chest. The only thing that will fix this is absolute truth and transparency from you. Your words mean nothing. Only actions will prove to him that you are serious. Right now he doesn't think you love or respect him. No matter what you say you will not convince him otherwise, so you have to show him. Lose any attitude or sense of entitlement. 

Don't quit your job. I don't know what Canadian family courts are like, but if they are anything like your government I am sure a divorce court up North is a circus parade. If your husband asks for divorce, make sure he comes out of it as unscathed as he can be. I'm not saying let yourself get hosed, but do what you can to make sure he gets out of the marriage with some skin intact.


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## Sufi22

PurpleRoses said:


> Okay, I'm not a perfect person and yes, I'm selfish and I don't know if I'm a narcissist or not. I've read that a true narcissist wouldn't consider the possibility but I really don't know. I do care for my family and I feel about as low as I can possibly feel. I'm not going to pretend this is the first selfish thing I've ever done, it's the worst, but not even close to the first. But I want to get better and I want to work on myself. I don't even know why I keep coming back here, I think part of me wants to read nasty and hopeless things because that's how I feel. My husband calls it my inner masochist. He says it joking but maybe it's not a joke.


I believe you are looking for help and not just feeding your inner masochist - hopefully you find some here - Casual Observer just gave you some great insight as have others. That said, there is a lot working on understanding your own why's is going to be essential for you whether or not your marriage survives. Individual therapy with the right person can really help you figure out why and how you're drawn to what you call selfish actions. This thread is dominated by people who have been betrayed; you might find some more useful advice on a site like surviving infidelity where there is a dedicated wayward section. Other people's experiences with acknowledging their own infidelities may be helpful for you to learn how to help your husband heal as well as yourself.


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## Marc878

CatholicDad said:


> Another random thought... the sacrament of confession is very powerful for all of us- sinners. Nobody is perfect.


Let’s make some more excuses like leaving the toilet seat up in winter, not rinsing out your dishes, etc.


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## Blondilocks

PurpleRoses said:


> *I don't even know why I keep coming back here,* I think part of me wants to read nasty and hopeless things because that's how I feel. My husband calls it my inner masochist. He says it joking but maybe it's not a joke.


Why don't you tell us what it is that you are hoping to get out of this thread. It seems you are looking for something - we're not mind-readers.


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## Casual Observer

CatholicDad said:


> Hey PR, not excusing you or anything- what you did was awful... but if it makes you feel any better... if hubby is a porn user like presumably the other 99% of men on the planet... he’s “cheated” too.... at least in his heart.


This is, in my opinion, wildly inappropriate. It’s the ultimate conflation. All sins may be equal to God, maybe, but allowing someone to feel a husband’s masturbation or pornography issue was a likely (99% likely he did, according to you!) factor leading to her affair, because that’s how this can be read by someone looking for an “out”… that’s irresponsible.

And as I’ve said before, pornography may be a guy’s way of avoiding sexual issues in a relationship, not the cause. It can relieve pressure and tension (assuming sexual release is involved) that would add, not subtract, to marital woes. It’s not an absolute.


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## sideways

I have to say I hate what you did to your husband along with some of your comments to people here who are trying to help you but I also commend you for telling your husband and as difficult as things may get here on TAM you continue to come back. 

Takes a lot of courage to do so!!

You have a long journey ahead of you and trust me a lot of the answers and wisdom you'll be seeking you'll find here if you're willing to humble yourself and try to not be so defensive.


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## uphillbattle

PurpleRoses said:


> Okay, I'm not a perfect person and yes, I'm selfish and I don't know if I'm a narcissist or not. I've read that a true narcissist wouldn't consider the possibility but I really don't know. I do care for my family and I feel about as low as I can possibly feel. I'm not going to pretend this is the first selfish thing I've ever done, it's the worst, but not even close to the first. But I want to get better and I want to work on myself. I don't even know why I keep coming back here, I think part of me wants to read nasty and hopeless things because that's how I feel. My husband calls it my inner masochist. He says it joking but maybe it's not a joke.


You are not a narcissist. A narcissist isn't going tell their spouse, and when the BS finds out a narcissist would use everything in their manipulative tool box to make the BS feel it was their fault. You were a selfish person who did a bunch of selfish ****, nothing extraordinary there. 
Don't worry so much about what the people on here say to bash you. Many of them see you as a form of their WS and are disappointed your husband didn't string you up like a piñata and beat you senseless, then they would have still kicked you. Just worry about your husband, what tells you he needs and tells you what he wants.


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## jsmart

sideways said:


> Speaking of friends who knew about the affair.
> 
> Are any of them coming to the party?
> 
> Has your husband asked you who else knew?


@PurpleRoses If any friends that know about the affair, were egging you on, they are enemies of your marriage and need to be cut from your life. Such friends were helping you stick a knife into your husband’s heart. If that seems to extreme, take a look at the man who’s had your back for 20 years and is your kids father struggling with so badly that he’s openly crying in front of you.


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## QuietRiot

PurpleRoses said:


> We have talked more about it. He's asked about some sexual stuff and it's very difficult for me to talk about that. I don't even really talk with my girlfriends about that stuff.


This is ironic. So terrible and horrible to speak of… but doing it is cool.


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## Tested_by_stress

CatholicDad said:


> Hey PR, not excusing you or anything- what you did was awful... but if it makes you feel any better... if hubby is a porn user like presumably the other 99% of men on the planet... he’s “cheated” too.... at least in his heart.


This is just a ridiculous thing to say. Villifying her husband to try and minimize her guilt? Really? How do you know he's not a holy roller like yourself?


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## uphillbattle

CatholicDad said:


> Hey PR, not excusing you or anything- what you did was awful... but if it makes you feel any better... if hubby is a porn user like presumably the other 99% of men on the planet... he’s “cheated” too.... at least in his heart.


Thankfully for her husband, they get to decide what is cheating on their relationship. Not others.


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## marko polo

Tested_by_stress said:


> This is just a ridiculous thing to say. Villifying her husband to try and minimize his guilt? Really? How do you know he's not a holy roller like yourself?











_"For her ladyship's honor." _


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## MattMatt

CatholicDad said:


> Hey PR, not excusing you or anything- what you did was awful... but if it makes you feel any better... if hubby is a porn user like presumably the other 99% of men on the planet... he’s “cheated” too.... at least in his heart.


*MODERATOR WARNING:-*

Yeah, and if your turtle was short-sighted it might accidentally marry an army helmet. 

Please! We know you don't like the very concept of pornography, so stop shoehorning it into thread after thread.


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## VladDracul

PurpleRoses said:


> Okay, I'm not a perfect person and yes, I'm selfish and I don't know if I'm a narcissist or not. I've read that a true narcissist wouldn't consider the possibility but I really don't know. I do care for my family and I feel about as low as I can possibly feel. I'm not going to pretend this is the first selfish thing I've ever done, it's the worst, but not even close to the first. But I want to get better and I want to work on myself. I don't even know why I keep coming back here, I think part of me wants to read nasty and hopeless things because that's how I feel. My husband calls it my inner masochist. He says it joking but maybe it's not a joke.


None of us are perfect PR, and I'm probably further down the list of perfect folks than virtually anyone here. Most peoples goal is fairly simple; give you a list of possibilities as to what to expect when you told your husband, and to tell you where your plans and actions may put further pressure on your husband, exacerbate his hurt, disappointment, a blow the his self esteem, et cetera.
Whether you intend it or not, it ain't much of a stretch for us the think that beyond confessing your "misdemeanors" you're not willing to go much further to assuage his pain and ensure he has no reason to think you may still be seeing this cat. Men already know that when a woman ditches an affair partner, the affair partner is likely to continue to pursue the woman or at a minimum keep his option open. Your husband knows this guy is likely to at least remain open to restarting the affair. You are probably thinking, "Well my AP can wait till the cows come home but I'm not going there again". You can understand why your husband, or us may not believe that based on recent history. Additionally, when a woman enters into an affair, most often she is missing something in her marriage and her romantic interest in her husband is low. You alluded early on that was the case with you. Have you come to terms with that?
Few if anybody here, is out to get you. We wouldn't know you if you lived next door. So don't get your feathers ruffled because somebody leans on you. Read their response and see if maybe they have point that will help you and your husband through this ordeal. Bottom line, you caused your trouble; don't go off in a huff because somebody calls you out and sez something you don't like or want to hear.

BTW, I don't think you quite make the grade as a narcissist . A spoiled brat, maybe. 

.


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## gr8ful1

CatholicDad said:


> Hey PR ... if it makes you feel any better... if hubby is a porn user like presumably the other 99% of men on the planet... he’s “cheated” too.... at least in his heart.


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## Davit Bek

PurpleRoses said:


> Okay, I'm not a perfect person and yes, I'm selfish and I don't know if I'm a narcissist or not. I've read that a true narcissist wouldn't consider the possibility but I really don't know. I do care for my family and I feel about as low as I can possibly feel. I'm not going to pretend this is the first selfish thing I've ever done, it's the worst, but not even close to the first. But I want to get better and I want to work on myself. I don't even know why I keep coming back here, I think part of me wants to read nasty and hopeless things because that's how I feel. My husband calls it my inner masochist. He says it joking but maybe it's not a joke.


You could seek counseling to see if you can be diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This is often misdiagnosed and there is no medication to treat it as it falls under personality disorders. The appropriate treatment is psychotherapy. This can be done by both a psychologist or a psychiatrist. And while I agree that this place can sometimes be a bit toxic, if you take the overall arch of the comments, there is a lot of good advice. I hope you keep coming back and if you are able to weather this storm, give us some insight as to what helped. Best of luck to the family.


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## jjj858

Whew can’t believe I read the whole thread. Don’t have anything to offer other than your husband is a better man than I. I would have kept the plans for the party going and let the OM remain invited. I would have exposed you in front of everybody and then jumped across the table and throttled the daylights out of the OM. That’s just me though 🤷‍♂️


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## ABHale

PurpleRoses said:


> No, he was never going to show up. I briefly spoke to him and he just didn't say anything because he didn't want to ruin anything. He knows how I feel about the whole thing.


Ruin anything between you and your lover or between you and your husband?


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## Rus47

jjj858 said:


> Whew can’t believe I read the whole thread. Don’t have anything to offer other than your husband is a better man than I. I would have kept the plans for the party going and let the OM remain invited. I would have exposed you in front of everybody and* then jumped across the table and throttled the daylights out of the OM. *That’s just me though 🤷‍♂️


With you except for the last. Throttling the OM just lands a husband in more trouble when he already has a plate full, especially if OM is a MMA expert. A better option IMO would be just announce to him and everyone present that you are done with the heavily used WW, he can have 100% of what is left of her, congratulate him on having won a cheating skank.


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## LATERILUS79

QuietRiot said:


> This is ironic. So terrible and horrible to speak of… but doing it is cool.


Perfect, QR. I kept reading this part over and over. I didn’t know what to say.

I’m shocked that it is hard for her to talk about having elicit sex with a man other than her husband….. while having elicit sex with a man other than her husband.

I guess if you are going to do something dirty and disgusting, might as well stay prim and proper while you do it.


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## LATERILUS79

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't even know why I keep coming back here, I think part of me wants to read nasty and hopeless things because that's how I feel. My husband calls it my inner masochist. He says it joking but maybe it's not a joke.


Hmmmmmm........

Woe is me? 

For cheating? 

For destroying the family due to selfishness? 


Curious.... how much sympathy did you think you were going to get when you came here? I'm going to offer some non-nasty advice. Look up a member here named "Tears" and read her story. That is how a wayward wife acts when she is completely gutted for making such a life-crippling choice. That is what remorse looks like. When you get to the point where you would prefer to be destitute for what you did to your husband and family, then you will start to get more people to listen to what you have to say and want to help you rebuild your life.


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## BigDaddyNY

PurpleRoses said:


> Okay, I'm not a perfect person and yes, I'm selfish and I don't know if I'm a narcissist or not. I've read that a true narcissist wouldn't consider the possibility but I really don't know. I do care for my family and I feel about as low as I can possibly feel. *I'm not going to pretend this is the first selfish thing I've ever done, it's the worst, but not even close to the first. *But I want to get better and I want to work on myself. I don't even know why I keep coming back here, I think part of me wants to read nasty and hopeless things because that's how I feel. My husband calls it my inner masochist. He says it joking but maybe it's not a joke.


Have any of those other selfish acts put a strain on your marrage?


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## QuietRiot

MattMatt said:


> *MODERATOR WARNING:-*
> 
> Yeah, and if your turtle was short-sighted it might accidentally marry an army helmet.


Can we please make TAM book of poetry and notable quotes? This needs to be saved for posterity.


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## Casual Observer

To @PurpleRoses-

Here's the thread that has been mentioned, one that has some similarities to what you're going through with your husband. I cheated and my husband left!! | Talk About Marriage 

The most important "gift" TAM can give you is not an understanding of why you did what you did, but rather, how your husband might react, and why he is reacting the way he is. You simply have no point of reference to relate to, unless you have been similarly betrayed in such a strong manner. Infidelity, to a man, is a betrayal that is not only at the top of the betrayal pyramid, but also hugely stronger than any other betrayal imaginable. And thus, for a guy, such a betrayal comes without preparation, without a "book" for how to deal with it.

I cannot speak to how such betrayal would feel for a woman whose husband cheated; I can imagine it to be similar but I can't know. I say this only to point out that you really can't know what he's going through, both because you haven't experienced it yourself, and it may be different based on which sex is cheating. It may not be.

You will learn little, if anything, and likely become increasingly defensive, if the focus here is on how bad you were, the severity of your actions. But if you can learn what your husband is going through, and actually separate that from your own feelings of guilt and even remorse, you will find great value here.


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## uphillbattle

CatholicDad said:


> Mentioning porn is like stirring the hornets nest here. I didn’t condemn anyone... you condemn yourselves.


Doing it in a sanctimonious manner while preaching not only the poor BS but "99% of the male population" are cheaters will bring the hornets swarming. What is cheating in a relationship is defined by the couple, your beliefs hold no weight in the OP's relationship. Or maybe the hornets wold just prefer you exhibit some self control while preaching to others on how they should think. Just an observation.


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## LATERILUS79

CatholicDad said:


> I didn’t say porn/masturbation was the cause of her cheating... I’m saying him fantasizing with porn is philosophically speaking, no different than her actual cheating. Both are adulterous. Both require full consent of the will. Both are despicable
> 
> Her cheating may be more understandable because at least her suitor was charming, warm, friendly, and inviting... porn is none of these.
> 
> Of course, maybe the guy is 100% innocent- we don’t know. Everyone else is wildly speculating- why can’t I?
> 
> Mentioning porn is like stirring the hornets nest here. I didn’t condemn anyone... you condemn yourselves.


it is now clear to me you say these things to get a rise out of people. I mean, I know you believe them too…. I KNOW your world and I know you. I know what your answer is to everything. You’ve got it memorized perfectly.

doesn’t change the fact that you come here to cause problems - and this is a serious problem. You are giving a cheater ammunition to use against her husband. It’s disgusting. You think you are correct. You state porn and infidelity are the same thing like it is a fact. You are unequivocally 100% wrong.


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## Blondilocks

gr8ful1 said:


>


 I so want to post this in about every other thread in the Politics forum. But, I won't.


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## jjj858

I just don’t get cheaters. Why ask for forgiveness? The OP made a series of very conscious decisions to sleep with the OM. She wasn’t thinking of her husband when she was on her back orgasming and loving it. Why think of him now? I’d say that consciously and willfully cheating and then asking for forgiveness is cake-eating. You got to do exactly what you wanted to do and you can just wipe the slate clean and pretend everything is normal? Sorry but it doesn’t work that way.


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## Tested_by_stress

CatholicDad said:


> I didn’t say porn/masturbation was the cause of her cheating... I’m saying him fantasizing with porn is philosophically speaking, no different than her actual cheating. Both are adulterous. Both require full consent of the will. Both are despicable
> 
> Her cheating may be more understandable because at least her suitor was charming, warm, friendly, and inviting... porn is none of these.
> 
> Of course, maybe the guy is 100% innocent- we don’t know. Everyone else is wildly speculating- why can’t I?
> 
> Mentioning porn is like stirring the hornets nest here. I didn’t condemn anyone... you condemn yourselves.


You don't listen very well when the moderator tells you to stop with your porn bs do you?


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## Rus47

jjj858 said:


> I just don’t get cheaters. Why ask for forgiveness? The OP made a series of very conscious decisions to sleep with the OM. She wasn’t thinking of her husband when she was on her back orgasming and loving it. Why think of him now? I’d say that consciously and willfully cheating and then asking for forgiveness is cake-eating. You got to do exactly what you wanted to do and you can just wipe the slate clean and pretend everything is normal? Sorry but it doesn’t work that way.


Because sometimes it works. There is another thread on here where the WW had a months long full-on no holds bared affair that she initiated. Thinking her lover had impregnated her, she confessed infidelity to her husband. Her husband took her back no consequences, has done his best to rug sweep the whole thing. All evidence is they will continue on with life as if nothing happened.

There have been betrayed spouses with threads describing staying with a serial unrepentant cheater for decades. One guy's wife had a 7 year-long affair ( the only one he is aware of ), which he just found out about decades later, just when he is retiring.

Yes, they get to do exactly what they want to do and the slate gets cleaned and they get to pretend everything is normal. Sometimes it DOES work that way. Life is not fair, and the so-called Karma bus takes a route away from the cheater's house. The OP may very well live off of that bus route.


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## uphillbattle

Tested_by_stress said:


> You don't listen very well when the moderator tells you to stop with your porn bs do you?


It's a lack of self control


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## HappilyMarried1

PurpleRoses said:


> We have talked more about it. He's asked about some sexual stuff and it's very difficult for me to talk about that. I don't even really talk with my girlfriends about that stuff.


OMG @PurpleRoses I'm so sorry it is difficult for you to talk about that. How do you think your husband feels about having to ask about it? You think that is easy for him? This is all created by you! Always remember a marriage good or bad is shared between the husband and wife. A affair by one spouse or the other is 100% on that cheating spouse.


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## QuietRiot

Rus47 said:


> Because sometimes it works. There is another thread on here where the WW had a months long full-on no holds bared affair that she initiated. Thinking her lover had impregnated her, she confessed infidelity to her husband. Her husband took her back no consequences, has done his best to rug sweep the whole thing. All evidence is they will continue on with life as if nothing happened.
> 
> There have been betrayed spouses with threads describing staying with a serial unrepentant cheater for decades. One guy's wife had a 7 year-long affair ( the only one he is aware of ), which he just found out about decades later, just when he is retiring.
> 
> Yes, they get to do exactly what they want to do and the slate gets cleaned and they get to pretend everything is normal. Sometimes it DOES work that way. Life is not fair, and the so-called Karma bus takes a route away from the cheater's house. The OP may very well live off of that bus route.


Good points here, everyone chooses what they will and will not forgive, what they will and will not rug sweep. Though, I’m pretty certain the two you’re talking about in the first scenario will continually punish each other for life…that seems it’s own level of karma, for life now with kids involved. 

In this situation the OPs husband does not seem like an (alleged) alcoholic abusive wife beater (though those details might come out by surprise 3 months from now)… so I’d say he doesn’t serve the same level of dysfunction. Perhaps he won’t perpetuate the dysfunction and break free. Op also seems like she is very adverse to sexual attention seeking from internet followers, just the office friends, So I’d say they have a better chance at a successful and peaceful rugsweep!


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## mickybill

Regarding porn = sexual affair.
I have heard it described as the difference between looking at a lot of pictures of a Ferrari and driving one thru Italy up and down the mountains and around the tight curves.
Not the same experience


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## Davit Bek

After reading the behemoth of a thread by "Tears", Purpleroses comes across so nonchalant about the infidelity and sometimes even self-entitled which isn't too far off from her self-admitted selfish and manipulative personality. At least based on their writings. Still having contact with the other partner because "I'm mature enough"... My gosh, some people really don't deserve forgiveness. I'm still routing for the best outcome for the husband and the children, even if it's reconciliation but that's for their sake, and not purpleroses.


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## Harold Demure

Davit Bek said:


> After reading the behemoth of a thread by "Tears", Purpleroses comes across so nonchalant about the infidelity and sometimes even self-entitled which isn't too far off from her self-admitted selfish and manipulative personality. At least based on their writings. Still having contact with the other partner because "I'm mature enough"... My gosh, some people really don't deserve forgiveness. I'm still routing for the best outcome for the husband and the children, even if it's reconciliation but that's for their sake, and not purpleroses.


I also read Tears thread and agree with your sentiments above. However,

As far as I could see, Tears’ husband only started softening once he had had his fair share of other women and I do wonder if he thought things had been evened up enough for him to accept he could go back.

I am not sure Tears had that much to give up in terms of actions speaking louder than words. That is not to denigrate what she did to help her husband recover but, for example, there was no OM that she still worked with so no job to give up, no need for any No Contact letter because she didn’t know him, no EA element, no ongoing fog etc. She reduced ties with her friends and was willing to put the emotional heavy lifting in . 

Having seen all of the work she did, I have to admit to going from the nuclear option to being glad they reconciled.

PurpleRoses has plenty of opportunity to let actions demonstrate her contrition and I hope she takes those opportunities. However, I wonder how she would cope with her husband working through a series of women before reconciling? No doubt, if she ever comes back here, she and he will say that the husband is not interested in other women but will that attitude change with time?


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## Cuobs

.


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## marko polo

Cuobs said:


> Newton, Darwin, Tesla, Van Gogh, Einstein, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Washington, Oppenheimer, Feynman.... Within these there are neurotic, anxious, bipolar, morally ambiguous, severely OCD.... I think I have sufficiently illustrated my point that the capacity for analysis and self-control does not mean being perfect at it, nor do geniuses wake up as such and spend 24 hours in a state of alertness. No wonder PR has extraordinary control and still screwed up in such a big way. In fact I think as time goes on that will be his personal hell. At least until her surroundings regain some normalcy, I think she will accept without question that she should be there for her husband and support him. Which to me is the right thing to do.



Perhaps you have sufficiently illustrated your point to yourself. You have failed otherwise.

_"No wonder PR has extraordinary control and still screwed up in such a big way."_
*Definition of self-control: restraint exercised over one's own impulses, emotions, or desires.*

Where exactly did she exercise self control? She had an affair. Did she take this secret to her grave? No. She confessed. She came to this forum motivated by self preservation as many waywards do.

Making excuses / justifications on her behalf will do little to truly help her. It is ridiculous that you would attempt to elevate her with your A-list. She is no genius. If she were she would not be on this forum asking for input into the disaster she made for herself. Whatever her issues may be they did not render her completely stupid. She had her affair for the same reasons every other wayward does - she wanted to and she could. It does not require a herculean effort to think about others and how your decisions may affect them.

In my two decades of marriage I have had many opportunities to stray. I am far from perfect. Nevertheless, I have employed my own humble powers of analysis and self-control. Strangely enough when such powers are truly applied you can resist temptation and disaster. If you truly appreciate what you have and you take the time to analyze your situation - the harm you will cause to others / risks / consequences, you can overcome. Certainly you can better your chances of success when you also take precautions such as setting boundaries and avoiding compromising situations. The key ingredient will always remain self-control. It all comes down to what you chose to do. Your actions, not your excuses define you.

She came here to ask is it fair to ask her husband for forgiveness. If she were truly remorseful she wouldn't be expecting forgiveness. She would be moving heaven and earth to try to make amends instead of waiting to have her husband ask that her AP be uninvited to a gathering. She wouldn't remain employed at the same place as her AP because if it happened once it can happen again.

PR is no prodigy. She is no unicorn. Just one more wayward.


----------



## jjj858

^ great post


----------



## jjj858

Why even bother asking for forgiveness? It’s clear that OP is no longer attracted to her husband and no longer wants to have sex with him. She claimed “loneliness” yet already has a husband to provide companionship, attention, and intimacy. She didn’t want any of that from him. She sought out a new male to have sex with and probably did things with him she doesn’t do for her husband. She doesn’t actually want her husband anymore. She’s playing the woe-is-me card because she wants to maintain her lifestyle and financial situation. She doesn’t love her husband. Someone who loves their spouse doesn’t do what she did.


----------



## Casual Observer

jjj858 said:


> Why even bother asking for forgiveness? It’s clear that OP is no longer attracted to her husband and no longer wants to have sex with him. She claimed “loneliness” yet already has a husband to provide companionship, attention, and intimacy. She didn’t want any of that from him. She sought out a new male to have sex with and probably did things with him she doesn’t do for her husband. She doesn’t actually want her husband anymore. She’s playing the woe-is-me card because she wants to maintain her lifestyle and financial situation. She doesn’t love her husband. Someone who loves their spouse doesn’t do what she did.


All of this because she’s acting a bit defensive as she encounters the wrath of TAM? What you say could be true, but she really hasn’t said all that much yet. We don’t have their all-important back story. We don’t know what their sex life has been like. We know that the OP is a bit self-centered. But beyond that?
Is her biggest crime that she doesn’t have a need to quickly respond to TAM queries?


----------



## Cuobs

.


----------



## Davit Bek

Cuobs said:


> This is a defense about the different nuances in human behavior, why you cannot judge a person's character and aptitudes as deficient for a one particular behavior, nor for the reaction of those affected by that behavior when information about them is scarce. I also expose how biased the view is and the repetitive use of the same labels in every post related to infidelity.
> 
> 
> This is not a defense of PR cheating, I am simply not apportioning blame as my approach to this would be to repair the damage as much as possible, while there is something left to repair, with a realistic approach and accepting that PR omitted a lot of vital information, wisely in my view given the level of uproar his responses caused, and that his family conditions, work commitments and personal disposition seem to be somewhat particular.
> 
> I had to use 2 translators because I reached the limit on one of them.
> 
> Moderator: @EleGirl @MattMatt @lifeistooshort I think this exposition is far from useless, even if it is so long. But it is certainly at your discretion to delete this comment. It took me a long time to write this so if you delete it, well... no hard feelings.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I I'll just go away and read my personal copy of this and I'll probably touch myself while reading it and singing songs proclaiming how intelligent I am.
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Extremely long ... be warned
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, judging someone's character and capabilities by how perfectly those qualities fit a dictionary definition is a great way to assess a person's overall character.
> 
> She had an affair, apparently that immediately makes her whole life a disaster.
> 
> Let's recap:
> 
> - I seem to have to turn my brain off and forget that she hints on several occasions that she has a high paying or perhaps very high paying job, in addition to being part of her company's trusted employees, perhaps those contractually required to pay severance to her company in the event she resigns without notice
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the control here? she considers how it would affect her family in practice if she resigns and how unprotected she would be if her husband decides to divorce her:
> 
> 
> 
> She has thought beforehand about her obligations and debts, which by the way she seems to share with her husband. Besides thinking about her children going to college soon, which is not a minor fact.
> Why worry about those expenses? you tell me, if she has a job that pays so well? .... Well I found data from 2020 and on average Canadians are indebted in $73,000 and mortgage debts on average are $238,000 and I quote "Vancouver and Toronto, which have the most dynamic real estate markets in the country. The average debts were $455,000 and $448,000 respectively." all this according to Equifax.
> 
> And how do you know he belongs to those groups? Well according to this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keeping up appearances was a requirement of her husband. Affluent social classes in general must maintain an appearance of solidity in their personal relationships. Even more so if the good evaluation of your work is in some way related to the image projected by your family. Unless you are a celebrity, a stable or at least discreet personal life will be a requirement in certain social circles.
> They didn't go out for 2 days, why? maybe so that no one would ask what the hell was going on since it was impossible for them to hide their pain, maybe given the obligation to maintain a semblance of stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 😂
> She started posting 12 days ago here and according to her she had already been searching online for weeks about what to expect when confessing. TAM was not her first choice. But of course she is a simple cheater who acts on impulse in every decision she makes in her life, because all cheaters are the same.....
> 
> 
> 
> I am impressed that you have created a fantasy in which I excuse the PR adventure. I pointed out that the extraordinary self-control and analytical ability is related to this thread, her pragmatic way of looking at the advice given here, her handling of personal information, her concise answers and how she simply doesn't waste time answering every question she doesn't consider relevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Of the few people she praised for her answers, look how concise she was in doing so:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here I had a hard time answering you without being sarcastic. I listed geniuses who in their respective fields were unique with exceptional self-control and commitment in their respective subjects and yet lacked self-control in other areas. Feynman for example was very given to parties and orgies as I have read.... Of course, the logical thing then is to expect that PR is better than these luminaries of humanity and that his intellect and self-control is definitely superior.
> 
> An example:
> 
> Suppose you need a beam to support 500 kilos / m2. So you do the calculations for
> a beam of section x, you notice that hardly this beam of section x can support 400 kilos / m2. Do you think it is necessary to calculate the resistance of a beam with a lower section z section and that it will work under the same conditions and materiality, just to rule out that it is adequate to support the required load? I think there are "few" scenarios where it is necessary to do this.
> 
> Beam of larger section = geniuses
> Beam of smaller section = Probably PR and the rest of us.
> 
> The purpose of my comparison is to state that if for geniuses with a deep inner world and control, it is normal to show that ambivalence between doing what is clearly correct and beneficial and what they end up doing, do not you think we mere "mortals" will ever fail in doing what is right / honest / decent / moral. The terrible and differentiating thing is when that failure involves a series of self-deception and a lot of damage to those who in theory you should take care of given your votes. I understand the anger of those who were deceived, but you have to keep using your brain to minimize the damage.
> 
> But they were geniuses in fields not related to the psyche:
> One name should be enough for you but I'll give you 2 just in case Carl Gustav Jung and Sigmund Freud, research how neurotic and how many anecdotes there are about how they used to lose their temper and you may see a completely different reality.
> 
> And in strict adherence to the facts I have no idea how far PR intelligence could go, she could perfectly well be a brilliant woman and still have poor interpersonal skills. She could work for a major university in the US or Canada on some project that elevates it to the status of a genius ... how could I infer that from Chile, with the information I have it is relatively impossible for me and I think it is presumptuous to go the other way and deny her possible abilities just because she didn't act smartly in his family life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are far from perfect but you judge PR capabilities in every area of her life with an unreasonable standard.
> 
> And your experiences as an argument are merely anecdotes.
> In my 30+ years of life I also experience that shape my reality, for example at 13 yo I already knew what it was to receive advances from women over 30 yo, at 16yo I was offered money to have sex by women much older than me, also at 16yo a male diplomatic official from another country openly flirted with me.(On this points I ask, please, that no one dares to judge my parents according to their first world standards. Whoever does it will earn my hatred and karma really loves me)
> 
> I did not have sex with any of them and I did not have to exercise self-control because it was not in my mind to even participate in those kinds of situations.
> 
> At 13 my sexual desire had already been awake for a long time but certainly the fear of my parents was greater than
> my erection could have held out... back then, at 16 being offered money for sex just paralyzed me and I said the most immediate answer I could muster "No."
> I don't have financial needs but I do have "free sex" but who knows what the hell I would answer today if some beautiful women would offer it to me again.😁... And about the diplomatic officer, well I'm just straight so I was not affected by his insinuations.
> 
> My experiences are also anecdotal when it comes to predicting how someone else will react to the same circumstances. Many sex workers start out in that world by simply saying "Yes" where I said "No" in the same age range. So I must use more information to temper my expectations and not just my high moral standards and how I have applied them throughout my life.
> 
> If it is burned in your mind that you must be faithful no matter what, then you do not need to exercise too much self-control, you just have to act in the way you are conditioned.
> 
> Obviously PR did not belong to your class, I traded with herself for a long time to finally give in:
> 
> 
> 
> There is another quote where she talks about how she started lying to herself to facilitate her affair.
> 
> PR failed to be faithful to her husband but demonstrates control over all other fields of her life including handling this thread. She knows how much guilt she is willing to bear, how laughable it seems to her that her husband doubted the paternity of her children. Or that he treated her violently or he exposed her as a horrible person to her children.
> 
> For me and for you she can be a simply horrible person, but for her husband there may be a background that leads him to bury everything, even if he suffers doing so and given the control of the information that PR has only she knows.
> 
> Maybe their happy years are really extraordinary, maybe this PR pragmatism fits perfectly with a deeper emotionality of her husband, maybe her husband is unsure of finding someone in his 40s, maybe purely economic, social and work reasons lead them to stay together. There are so many reasons that would not be valid for me and that would even seem abhorrent to me, but that for PR husband would be worth the "sacrifice" to remain by PR side.
> 
> But the ideas here tend to be that, without a doubt, PR husband is going to explode in anger, he is going to demand the DNA test, he is going to demand that her leave her job that her does not contact AP etc ... The same ideas that can be found in every thread about infidelity. Hey! there are the cuckolds, the pragmatists, the forgivers, the dependents, the cowards, the persevering, the capricious ... etc and all of them for their emotional base could try to bury what PR did to maintain what makes them feel safe or prove something to themselves. As long as it does not fall into the abuse and degradation of the innocent spouse, it is perfectly valid for other sensibilities to make the decisions that seem most beneficial to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I highly doubt that this was the intention of PR. She came looking for information, just as she looked for information in other places to make a decision based on her interpretation of what she learns on these sites. She did not come with a submissive attitude of accepting every word spoken to her.
> 
> Given the development of the thread, how it answers the questions, the amount and type of questions she it answers per day and this:
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't take the thread title at face value as an indication that PR was totally lost. Rather, I would say that she posed it as an invitation for TAM users to elaborate so that she could take what would be useful for her particular situation.
> 
> -- Pink fact is that those who seek liberation through sadomasochism they tend to have a high degree of control in their daily lives. I'm not saying that she practices this but she certainly says she doubts she will continue to return to this thread for anything other than her "inner masochist." Maybe she just looking for some release in this thread, not necessarily the tips.--
> 
> I think the decision to stay together or not will really be made until the dust settles, in the next few months or years, depending on the damage to the family structure caused for the reaction that PR's infidelity causes in her husband
> rather than the affair itself. Perhaps there will be separation in between and then moving back in together again. The worst that can happen to her is that PR husband commits a very impulsive act, otherwise I think she is one with a good chance of success in this marriage in the long run. Even though PR is a WW that is very hard to empathize with.
> 
> And I certainly do not believe that at every opportunity the WS should humble himself to ask for forgiveness and his duty is to return to his marriage. Exit issues do exist. In S.I. there is a exWW who clearly regrets not having the courage to get out of her marriage cleanly and regrets even more not ending her marriage after her affair. The problems they had before her affair were real and her guilt clouded her judgment about whether to continue the marriage.
> 
> That's the kind of thinking I can come to admire regardless of your past deeds. Because they are focused on solving and not complicating issues.
> 
> In the end maybe PR is dumb as an ass and I'm just overanalyzing her whole situation. But since it took me really little time to think about these facts, I don't consider it too much of a loss. What does piss me off is how much time I had to spend to find where she had said such a thing and the time I spent between translators present this crap.
> 
> *PurpleRoses* If i hit too many things and somehow I exposed you, I'm sorry, you will see that it is not my intention to expose you in that way, but pointing out how vague they are, from my point of view, the analyzes on those who ask for help can improve the quality of the "service" that TAM offers in the future...
> 
> ...
> 
> My spidersense perceives him ... maybe banned at 3, 2, 1 ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> And I still have to make more than 30 "empanadas" for national holidays, again.


You absolutely can and should judge someone's character even with a single event. What makes character valuable is that it remains immune to poor circumstances. In this particular case, a person won't cheat regardless of how lonely they feel, or how poorly their marriage is going. They will find a solution or will end it. Also, nothing Purpleroses has written shows self control, much less an extraordinary one. All it took was a little bit of opportunity for her to violate her family's integrity and do it right before their 20th anniversary. Please stop. This is losing battle for you.


----------



## PurpleRoses

I don't talk about issues in my marriage because I don't think they give me the right to cheat. I said I was feeling lonely, becase that was the overwhelming emotion I was going through at the time. I enjoyed his company and, as brief as it was, it felt like an escape from that. My marriage wasn't perfect before the affair, but whose is? You have to work on it sometimes and I just wanted it to be easy. We have issues, we have issues with being distant sometimes and we have issues in bed. I read that whole thing and I don't think I'm remarkable enough for the effort. I posted here because I couldn't sleep and was worried that telling him would be just one more manipulation. I had already made up my mind to tell him and I wasn't looking for approval. I didn't tell him just so I could sleep well again and for the record, I'm still not sleeping well. I've been up for hours and it's like 6 in the morning here. I told him because I couldn't live with our marriage being a lie. I don't know what to say about the guy I was with, I don't think it really matters. I can't even say it was impulsive, maybe it finally hit like an impulse, but it wasn't a single decision. I was attracted to him, I can't help that. I don't want to dwell on him because I want to move forward, not that all the awful things can be erased.


----------



## Diana7

mickybill said:


> Regarding porn = sexual affair.
> I have heard it described as the difference between looking at a lot of pictures of a Ferrari and driving one thru Italy up and down the mountains and around the tight curves.
> Not the same experience


I see it is that they are both cheating but in different ways. One is physically cheating and the other is more on a par with an EA.


----------



## SunCMars

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't talk about issues in my marriage because I don't think they give me the right to cheat. I said I was feeling lonely, becase that was the overwhelming emotion I was going through at the time. I enjoyed his company and, as brief as it was, it felt like an escape from that. My marriage wasn't perfect before the affair, but whose is? You have to work on it sometimes and I just wanted it to be easy. We have issues, we have issues with being distant sometimes and we have issues in bed. I read that whole thing and I don't think I'm remarkable enough for the effort. I posted here because I couldn't sleep and was worried that telling him would be just one more manipulation. I had already made up my mind to tell him and I wasn't looking for approval. I didn't tell him just so I could sleep well again and for the record, I'm still not sleeping well. I've been up for hours and it's like 6 in the morning here. I told him because I couldn't live with our marriage being a lie. I don't know what to say about the guy I was with, I don't think it really matters. I can't even say it was impulsive, maybe it finally hit like an impulse, but it wasn't a single decision. I was attracted to him, I can't help that. I don't want to dwell on him because I want to move forward, not that all the awful things can be erased.


Now, the real man that your husband is.....will show through.

Not in a few days, but the weeks and months that follow.

Stress brings about a color change to the cheeks, a passion-filled awakening of one's mind, then tongue.



_Are Dee-_


----------



## Lostinthought61

Purple, I truly appreciate your raw honesty....I believe that you truly both need to communicate at a basic level of truth before you can build back a marriage if both parties have a deep desire to do so....that means your husband as well needs to get to that same level and that is difficult to do at times which means some counseling. 

Look it took years to get here and sadly it will take some time to fix this if both of you want to.....


----------



## Cuobs

.


----------



## Harold Demure

Okay PurpleRoses, I agree that it is time to help you move forward.

You have taken a real bashing on here but have still come back.

Probably a silly question, but have you asked your husband what he wants so that you can both move forward? I am talking about specifics, rather than a nebulous or general answer.

Is he in a position yet to be able to answer that question?

What will you do if he wants you to do something that you don’t want to (giving up job is the easiest example but there must be other things so let’s not get hung up on that)? Will you prioritise your marriage above yourself?

Lots of us have made suggestions about actions you can take based on our own experiences. However, I take your earlier point that we assume that is what your husband wants.

Finally, what are your expectations from all this and what are you prepared to live with? I think it is important to establish what your boundaries are because, if there are wide gaps between yours and his expectations/boundaries, then you may both decide the marriage is not salvageable.

I know you are the bad person here, but you need to be happy in your marriage going forward as well or else this just isn’t going to work.

For example as an extreme case, will you be happy to stay in a marriage where your every move is under intense scrutiny by your husband or where every e-Mail, text etc is examined, a form of prisoner? We have seen this regularly on TAM but I am not sure you would be able to deal with this (an observation, not a criticism).

It may be time to turn the tone of this thread round now. I wish Diana7 and Affaircare would comment on here.


----------



## Kaliber

@PurpleRoses you were brave and did the right thing, not many wayward spouses do what you did! 
So my question is, *what does your husband want from you now?!*


----------



## jjj858

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't talk about issues in my marriage because I don't think they give me the right to cheat. I said I was feeling lonely, becase that was the overwhelming emotion I was going through at the time. I enjoyed his company and, as brief as it was, it felt like an escape from that. My marriage wasn't perfect before the affair, but whose is? You have to work on it sometimes and I just wanted it to be easy. We have issues, we have issues with being distant sometimes and we have issues in bed. I read that whole thing and I don't think I'm remarkable enough for the effort. I posted here because I couldn't sleep and was worried that telling him would be just one more manipulation. I had already made up my mind to tell him and I wasn't looking for approval. I didn't tell him just so I could sleep well again and for the record, I'm still not sleeping well. I've been up for hours and it's like 6 in the morning here. I told him because I couldn't live with our marriage being a lie. I don't know what to say about the guy I was with, I don't think it really matters. I can't even say it was impulsive, maybe it finally hit like an impulse, but it wasn't a single decision. I was attracted to him, I can't help that. I don't want to dwell on him because I want to move forward, not that all the awful things can be erased.


So do you think your husband has never found another woman he knows attractive since you’ve been married? Would that be enough justification for him to sleep with them? Or does he actually have some self control and respect for his marriage? Really what you just wrote is a paragraph of absolutely nothing. It’s just vague circle-talk and self pity. You don’t deserve to be married and your husband deserves better.


----------



## Evinrude58

questions:
Do you still find the AP attractive?
Do you still have any feelings for the AP? If not, why not? What changed your feelings?

You found AP attractive. Then what? Did you just start talking and it finally escalated to sex? Or did you just get propositioned and took him up on it? 

If the latter, there’s no hope for your marriage. If the former, what are you going to do to help your HUSBAND believe it won’t happen again?

The only way the marriage will survive is if he truly believes it don’t happen again, and that you do actually love him. Both of which, I believe are nearly impossible to accomplish.

I have read your thread and haven’t seen the first thing you’ve mentioned changing in your life. Did I miss something?


----------



## Mr.Married

Evinrude58 said:


> questions:
> Did I miss something?


The part where she said she didn’t want to talk about the AP anymore.


----------



## jjj858

Yeah that’s the typical tactic they use after confessing. They don’t want to talk about the AP anymore and do the whole “it’s painful” “I just want to forget it” “I don’t want to talk about it” song and dance. Again merely talking about it is somehow worse than the actual sex and letting a man have his way with you.


----------



## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't talk about issues in my marriage because I don't think they give me the right to cheat. I said I was feeling lonely, becase that was the overwhelming emotion I was going through at the time. I enjoyed his company and, as brief as it was, it felt like an escape from that. My marriage wasn't perfect before the affair, but whose is? You have to work on it sometimes and I just wanted it to be easy. We have issues, we have issues with being distant sometimes and we have issues in bed. I read that whole thing and I don't think I'm remarkable enough for the effort. I posted here because I couldn't sleep and was worried that telling him would be just one more manipulation. I had already made up my mind to tell him and I wasn't looking for approval. I didn't tell him just so I could sleep well again and for the record, I'm still not sleeping well. I've been up for hours and it's like 6 in the morning here. I told him because I couldn't live with our marriage being a lie. I don't know what to say about the guy I was with, I don't think it really matters. I can't even say it was impulsive, maybe it finally hit like an impulse, but it wasn't a single decision. I was attracted to him, I can't help that. I don't want to dwell on him because I want to move forward, not that all the awful things can be erased.


By far, the biggest thing that stands in the way of reconciliation, the thing that should cause you to wonder if you should reconcile, is your earlier statement that this is not something you should have to, or would, change jobs for. If you're still of that mind, if you are still placing limits on what you're willing to do, before they are even asked by your husband, then I don't think reconciliation makes sense. Your husband should not, can not, be expected to accept limits on what you'll do in that regard, to save your family (and that's really what this is all about; it's not just about your husband, it's not just about you). 

Have you changed your mind on that? Because you really seemed to draw a line in the sand over it a few days ago. It felt like you were saying "What I did was bad, but you can't expect me to throw away my career over it, can you?"


----------



## Casual Observer

jjj858 said:


> Yeah that’s the typical tactic they use after confessing. They don’t want to talk about the AP anymore and do the whole “it’s painful” “I just want to forget it” “I don’t want to talk about it” song and dance. Again merely talking about it is somehow worse than the actual sex and letting a man have his way with you.


Odd that typically it’s said, letting the man have his way with you, referencing a WW. It’s as if the WW is somehow losing control when, I think, it may be all about her _taking_ control. It may not be a lapse of control at all. It might be comforting to all to believe that, but possibly really naive and not helpful to understanding what’s really going on in an affair, short or long term.


----------



## EdDean

Harold Demure said:


> I also read Tears thread and agree with your sentiments above. However,
> 
> As far as I could see, Tears’ husband only started softening once he had had his fair share of other women and I do wonder if he thought things had been evened up enough for him to accept he could go back.
> 
> I am not sure Tears had that much to give up in terms of actions speaking louder than words. That is not to denigrate what she did to help her husband recover but, for example, there was no OM that she still worked with so no job to give up, no need for any No Contact letter because she didn’t know him, no EA element, no ongoing fog etc. She reduced ties with her friends and was willing to put the emotional heavy lifting in .
> 
> Having seen all of the work she did, I have to admit to going from the nuclear option to being glad they reconciled.
> 
> PurpleRoses has plenty of opportunity to let actions demonstrate her contrition and I hope she takes those opportunities. However, I wonder how she would cope with her husband working through a series of women before reconciling? No doubt, if she ever comes back here, she and he will say that the husband is not interested in other women but will that attitude change with time?





Evinrude58 said:


> questions:
> Do you still find the AP attractive?
> Do you still have any feelings for the AP? If not, why not? What changed your feelings?
> 
> You found AP attractive. Then what? Did you just start talking and it finally escalated to sex? Or did you just get propositioned and took him up on it?
> 
> If the latter, there’s no hope for your marriage. If the former, what are you going to do to help your HUSBAND believe it won’t happen again?
> 
> The only way the marriage will survive is if he truly believes it don’t happen again, and that you do actually love him. Both of which, I believe are nearly impossible to accomplish.
> 
> I have read your thread and haven’t seen the first thing you’ve mentioned changing in your life. Did I miss something?


This is the fundamental question restated once again and never really answered. Purple you said you hoped for forgiveness. We all keep asking you - have you asked your husband what HE needs to trust again? To feel safe again? What changes he needs you to make? Can you make those changes without bitterness or resentment? If you can’t then better to end the relationship. And that’s OK. A good divorce is better than a bad marriage.


----------



## QuietRiot

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't talk about issues in my marriage because I don't think they give me the right to cheat. I said I was feeling lonely, becase that was the overwhelming emotion I was going through at the time. I enjoyed his company and, as brief as it was, it felt like an escape from that. My marriage wasn't perfect before the affair, but whose is? You have to work on it sometimes and I just wanted it to be easy. We have issues, we have issues with being distant sometimes and we have issues in bed. I read that whole thing and I don't think I'm remarkable enough for the effort. I posted here because I couldn't sleep and was worried that telling him would be just one more manipulation. I had already made up my mind to tell him and I wasn't looking for approval. I didn't tell him just so I could sleep well again and for the record, I'm still not sleeping well. I've been up for hours and it's like 6 in the morning here. I told him because I couldn't live with our marriage being a lie. I don't know what to say about the guy I was with, I don't think it really matters. I can't even say it was impulsive, maybe it finally hit like an impulse, but it wasn't a single decision. I was attracted to him, I can't help that. I don't want to dwell on him because I want to move forward, not that all the awful things can be erased.


You don’t seem self obsessed and an attention seeker, and you seem very logical about the way you view your affair. I think it’s positive that you don’t blame your marriage problems for your cheating, and you aren’t waxing poetic about your affair partner. What happens to your marriage is really beside the point right now in my opinion, because it’s important to fix the things that drove you to do what you did regardless of your husbands decisions and emotions. To understand and figure out how to be better as a person (which I hope all of us do).

Im sorry if you’ve already said this, but have you decided to seek individual counseling to help you process your actions and current emotions?


----------



## jjj858

Casual Observer said:


> Odd that typically it’s said, letting the man have his way with you, referencing a WW. It’s as if the WW is somehow losing control when, I think, it may be all about her _taking_ control. It may not be a lapse of control at all. It might be comforting to all to believe that, but possibly really naive and not helpful to understanding what’s really going on in an affair, short or long term.


It’s hard to say without knowing her perspective. But I think most of the time in an affair it’s the woman being used. The male AP, 9 times out of 10, doesn’t intend on having a serious relationship. They just want sex and are preying upon a woman who may have dropped a few hints as to marital unhappiness. If the single male AP wanted a serious relationship he could have easily found a single woman to date for that, and not emasculated some poor SOB in the process. But there’s probably more effort in courting necessary to bed a single woman. A woman wanting an affair is likely ready to jump in the sack right away.


----------



## VladDracul

PR did you tell your husband why you cheated? One reason why men ask a lot of detail is to try to discover what wives were getting from the affair that they weren't getting a home. If your not clear on what you thought you'd get outside your marriage, he's going to left to put the puzzle together himself and it usually one where he puts himself in the worse possible light. Men commonly say, the affair is all on her. But most know they played a role in it. He need to know that role without you sounding like that's a excuse.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Harold Demure said:


> Okay PurpleRoses, I agree that it is time to help you move forward.
> 
> You have taken a real bashing on here but have still come back.
> 
> Probably a silly question, but have you asked your husband what he wants so that you can both move forward? I am talking about specifics, rather than a nebulous or general answer.
> 
> Is he in a position yet to be able to answer that question?
> 
> What will you do if he wants you to do something that you don’t want to (giving up job is the easiest example but there must be other things so let’s not get hung up on that)? Will you prioritise your marriage above yourself?
> 
> Lots of us have made suggestions about actions you can take based on our own experiences. However, I take your earlier point that we assume that is what your husband wants.
> 
> Finally, what are your expectations from all this and what are you prepared to live with? I think it is important to establish what your boundaries are because, if there are wide gaps between yours and his expectations/boundaries, then you may both decide the marriage is not salvageable.
> 
> I know you are the bad person here, but you need to be happy in your marriage going forward as well or else this just isn’t going to work.
> 
> For example as an extreme case, will you be happy to stay in a marriage where your every move is under intense scrutiny by your husband or where every e-Mail, text etc is examined, a form of prisoner? We have seen this regularly on TAM but I am not sure you would be able to deal with this (an observation, not a criticism).
> 
> It may be time to turn the tone of this thread round now. I wish Diana7 and Affaircare would comment on here.


I haven't talked about moving forward, it's not fair to put that sort of pressure on him. One thing at a time and this one thing is probably going to take a lot of time. He doesn't even like me hinting that he can have a bit of space if he needs it, he thinks that means I don't want to be around him. 

As for what I am willing to live with? A lot of that stuff is trivial to me. If he wants to read my emails, he can read them, I'm sure he'd just get more bored than anything else. I can understand that our trust has been broken, but it won't be rebuilt on surveillance. If that made him feel better in the short term, I can't imagine him wanting to live like that for very long. Either way, I doubt he thinks I'm dumb enough to leave a trail of emails anyways. He can go through my phone if he wants too, but if he doesn't trust me, then finding nothing will just make him more suspicious. I don't know how to rebuild trust, I can only take it one day at a time. I want to see a therapist with him to help find solutions which can offer some solice. 

As for what I'm willing to live with? I'm willing to live through a lot, if that means some bad times, then they are bad times we will have together, as long as he loves me and feels affection for me. If we wants revenge then this isn't going to work. You can't have revenge on someone you love; it's never enough and it's always empty in the end. It's never going to be even and fair here. If he feels like the only way to appease him is to give up things that I love and make me who I am, then he would have no affection left for me. He would have every right to that emotion, it would be my fault, I would be extremely sad, but I would accept that I messed things up beyond repair. This whole quit your job thing just has this tone that it's some sort of sacrifice to offer up as a price to pay......only pay to who? We didn't even have jobs when we met in college. Our accomplishments are ours together and we both take a sense of pride in what we have and what we build together. Some make it sound like married people are complete strangers who just meet in bed every night. I'm working from home now, the building isn't even going to be open next year. I didn't just run into him at work, I asked him to come in, he would have never been there if I didn't and he's not going to keep going if I'm not. The entire quit your job thing is a complete non-issue. The only purpose it could serve is vindictive and that is a path I am not willing to go down. I am sure anyone who has tried revenge is divorced by now. You can't keep someone by taking things away, they will just resent you and it doesn't matter how justified you feel you are in it. Forgiveness is about putting that aside and it is a lot to ask, I get that and that's why I have not asked him to say those words. 

What can I do right now? He wants me to be more sexually available and I am going to be that. That's a start and it is something. I'm going to check in when I'm out without having to be asked. I will try to be more honest and patient. I don't expect perfection, but maybe something positive will come out of this.


----------



## GusPolinski

PurpleRoses said:


> I haven't talked about moving forward, it's not fair to put that sort of pressure on him. One thing at a time and this one thing is probably going to take a lot of time. He doesn't even like me hinting that he can have a bit of space if he needs it, he thinks that means I don't want to be around him.
> 
> As for what I am willing to live with? A lot of that stuff is trivial to me. If he wants to read my emails, he can read them, I'm sure he'd just get more bored than anything else. I can understand that our trust has been broken, but it won't be rebuilt on surveillance. If that made him feel better in the short term, I can't imagine him wanting to live like that for very long. Either way, I doubt he thinks I'm dumb enough to leave a trail of emails anyways. He can go through my phone if he wants too, but if he doesn't trust me, then finding nothing will just make him more suspicious. I don't know how to rebuild trust, I can only take it one day at a time. I want to see a therapist with him to help find solutions which can offer some solice.
> 
> As for what I'm willing to live with? I'm willing to live through a lot, if that means some bad times, then they are bad times we will have together, as long as he loves me and feels affection for me. If we wants revenge then this isn't going to work. You can't have revenge on someone you love; it's never enough and it's always empty in the end. It's never going to be even and fair here. If he feels like the only way to appease him is to give up things that I love and make me who I am, then he would have no affection left for me. He would have every right to that emotion, it would be my fault, I would be extremely sad, but I would accept that I messed things up beyond repair. This whole quit your job thing just has this tone that it's some sort of sacrifice to offer up as a price to pay......only pay to who? We didn't even have jobs when we met in college. Our accomplishments are ours together and we both take a sense of pride in what we have and what we build together. Some make it sound like married people are complete strangers who just meet in bed every night. I'm working from home now, the building isn't even going to be open next year. I didn't just run into him at work, I asked him to come in, he would have never been there if I didn't and he's not going to keep going if I'm not. The entire quit your job thing is a complete non-issue. The only purpose it could serve is vindictive and that is a path I am not willing to go down. I am sure anyone who has tried revenge is divorced by now. You can't keep someone by taking things away, they will just resent you and it doesn't matter how justified you feel you are in it. Forgiveness is about putting that aside and it is a lot to ask, I get that and that's why I have not asked him to say those words.
> 
> What can I do right now? He wants me to be more sexually available and I am going to be that. That's a start and it is something. I'm going to check in when I'm out without having to be asked. I will try to be more honest and patient. I don't expect perfection, but maybe something positive will come out of this.


Just to be clear, did the affair take place in your home or OM’s home?

You mentioned having problems with sex in your marriage — can you provide more info?

Also, the “quit your job thing” isn’t about punishment or vindictiveness — it’s about willingly limiting your opportunities for further interaction with OM. Do you really not get this?


----------



## PurpleRoses

Evinrude58 said:


> questions:
> Do you still find the AP attractive?
> Do you still have any feelings for the AP? If not, why not? What changed your feelings?
> 
> You found AP attractive. Then what? Did you just start talking and it finally escalated to sex? Or did you just get propositioned and took him up on it?
> 
> If the latter, there’s no hope for your marriage. If the former, what are you going to do to help your HUSBAND believe it won’t happen again?
> 
> The only way the marriage will survive is if he truly believes it don’t happen again, and that you do actually love him. Both of which, I believe are nearly impossible to accomplish.
> 
> I have read your thread and haven’t seen the first thing you’ve mentioned changing in your life. Did I miss something?


No, I am not infatuated with him anymore. We probably have a very different idea of attraction, so there isn't much point in getting too much into that. I'm done with all that, and there isn't any chance of it starting up again. Even letting me know that he still wants something is completely unattractive to me after the way we left things. 

I don't know what the difference really is in those scenarios. I had been to his place before without anything happening, it's not like he asked me to come to his place for sex. I had worn a sundress and sandals, somehow forgetting how cold the AC is at work. I told him I was going home because I was cold and we got to talking and he said to just come work at his place for the afternoon. I went and set up my laptop and so did he and I even did some work. I had a glass of red wine, but only a glass. It wasn't until I was about to leave, that he came up behind me and whispered in my ear and we started kissing and then things got heated. Our relationship had turned inappropriate before that moment, but it was never destined to become physical.


----------



## SRCSRC

You have stated that you do not want to talk about the AP, but you have yet to give a clear answer on a couple of points that are necessary to clear up if reconciliation is possible (1) Are you ready to go no contact with your AP forever? If so, have you made that clear to him? (2) Do you have residual feelings for the AP which makes it difficult for you to go no contact forever with him? (3) Will you go no contact even though you still have these feelings? (4) Are you ready to give up your friendship with the AP forever even if you are unwilling to go no contact? These are simple questions that you have not answered. We cannot assume what we don't know and these points are critical to assess the level of effort you are putting in to save your marriage.


----------



## PurpleRoses

VladDracul said:


> PR did you tell your husband why you cheated? One reason why men ask a lot of detail is to try to discover what wives were getting from the affair that they weren't getting a home. If your not clear on what you thought you'd get outside your marriage, he's going to left to put the puzzle together himself and it usually one where he puts himself in the worse possible light. Men commonly say, the affair is all on her. But most know they played a role in it. He need to know that role without you sounding like that's a excuse.


Yes, I have told him. It sucks and I hate doing it, I feel like I'm torturing him when we talk about it. He doesn't really believe I'm telling him the entire truth either, and why should he? He doesn't trust me anymore.


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## ononvandersexx

I mean, if it took a slightly off kilter thermostat and a few sips of red wine, then I don't see what destiny has to do with it. You were simply ready and willing.


----------



## LATERILUS79

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't know what the difference really is in those scenarios. I had been to his place before without anything happening, it's not like he asked me to come to his place for sex. I had worn a sundress and sandals, somehow forgetting how cold the AC is at work. I told him I was going home because I was cold and we got to talking and he said to just come work at his place for the afternoon. I went and set up my laptop and so did he and I even did some work. I had a glass of red wine, but only a glass. It wasn't until I was about to leave, that he came up behind me and whispered in my ear and we started kissing and then things got heated. Our relationship had turned inappropriate before that moment, but it was never destined to become physical.


It was never destined to be physical? 

You realize no one here believes you when you say that, right? 

Setting up your laptop at your APs place doesn't convince anyone that you didn't mean for it to be physical. Stop lying to yourself. 

You wore a sun dress to work where the only other person that would be there is your AP - a man that showed up ONLY because you asked him to. 

And yet, it was never meant to be physical. 

While at your AP's place "working" you only had a glass of wine - because people drink while they work. You didn't do that at all to get more comfortable and lower your inhibitions or anything. You didn't mean for it to get physical, right?

Here's what I think:

You personally were never going to make the first move to get it physical, but YOU wanted it to be physical, so you did all the little things. All the little flirtatious hints. YOU WANTED him to kiss you, and you set up that "work" day specifically to see if you could get him to kiss you. 

Feel free to tell me I'm wrong. Maybe I am, but I guarantee if you tell your husband what you just said here, he will come to the same conclusion I did. You absolutely wanted this to be physical.


----------



## Davit Bek

PurpleRoses said:


> If we wants revenge then this isn't going to work. You can't have revenge on someone you love; it's never enough and it's always empty in the end. It's never going to be even and fair here. If he feels like the only way to appease him is to give up things that I love and make me who I am, then he would have no affection left for me.


How can you say "you can't have revenge on someone you love" but think you can cheat on someone you love. I don't think you understand what you've done to him. It's as if you've stabbed him in his heart and then turned that knife a few times for good measure.

The bad times should be for you, not for both of you. It will be for both of you, but you should do everything you can to take as much of it on as possible. He has enough for the rest of his life. You absolutely should be willing to lose some freedoms and even offer it until that trust can slowly be rebuilt.

When someone hurts you so badly, it does bring you some peace to take revenge. I wouldn't be ok with my wife having a job at all for a while, much less working at the same place and rely on her "maturity" or lack of infatuation. It would be both a protective measure, and also a price to pay and a sacrifice. The reward of it would be having the hope of not breaking up your family for a cheap f***k. No guarantees. You are right. It may never be enough. Or it may be.

I'm beginning to realize the only person you ever loved in this scenario was yourself.


----------



## Casual Observer

@PurpleRoses You’re totally not getting job thing. Vindictiveness and punishment have nothing to do with it. It’s about absolute no-contact. Ever. My goodness you really don’t understand the severity of all this. It seemed only for the briefest of moments that you were so horrified at what you’d done, the significance of doing such things just prior to a big 20th anniversary bash. Now it seems you’re consumed by the practical.

There is no practical anymore. Practical was a relationship facilitated by a work environment. You can’t feel what your husband must be thinking every time you go back to the office? There are people who have had to sell their homes and move away from any possibility of even inadvertent contact, or triggered memories.

Like it or not, you, your AP, and your husband all agree on one thing. The workplace was involved. It didn’t cause it, but it will be forever tainted unless at least one of you is no longer there.


----------



## Harold Demure

PurpleRoses said:


> I haven't talked about moving forward, it's not fair to put that sort of pressure on him. One thing at a time and this one thing is probably going to take a lot of time. He doesn't even like me hinting that he can have a bit of space if he needs it, he thinks that means I don't want to be around him.
> 
> As for what I am willing to live with? A lot of that stuff is trivial to me. If he wants to read my emails, he can read them, I'm sure he'd just get more bored than anything else. I can understand that our trust has been broken, but it won't be rebuilt on surveillance. If that made him feel better in the short term, I can't imagine him wanting to live like that for very long. Either way, I doubt he thinks I'm dumb enough to leave a trail of emails anyways. He can go through my phone if he wants too, but if he doesn't trust me, then finding nothing will just make him more suspicious. I don't know how to rebuild trust, I can only take it one day at a time. I want to see a therapist with him to help find solutions which can offer some solice.
> 
> As for what I'm willing to live with? I'm willing to live through a lot, if that means some bad times, then they are bad times we will have together, as long as he loves me and feels affection for me. If we wants revenge then this isn't going to work. You can't have revenge on someone you love; it's never enough and it's always empty in the end. It's never going to be even and fair here. If he feels like the only way to appease him is to give up things that I love and make me who I am, then he would have no affection left for me. He would have every right to that emotion, it would be my fault, I would be extremely sad, but I would accept that I messed things up beyond repair. This whole quit your job thing just has this tone that it's some sort of sacrifice to offer up as a price to pay......only pay to who? We didn't even have jobs when we met in college. Our accomplishments are ours together and we both take a sense of pride in what we have and what we build together. Some make it sound like married people are complete strangers who just meet in bed every night. I'm working from home now, the building isn't even going to be open next year. I didn't just run into him at work, I asked him to come in, he would have never been there if I didn't and he's not going to keep going if I'm not. The entire quit your job thing is a complete non-issue. The only purpose it could serve is vindictive and that is a path I am not willing to go down. I am sure anyone who has tried revenge is divorced by now. You can't keep someone by taking things away, they will just resent you and it doesn't matter how justified you feel you are in it. Forgiveness is about putting that aside and it is a lot to ask, I get that and that's why I have not asked him to say those words.
> 
> What can I do right now? He wants me to be more sexually available and I am going to be that. That's a start and it is something. I'm going to check in when I'm out without having to be asked. I will try to be more honest and patient. I don't expect perfection, but maybe something positive will come out of this.


PurpleRoses, thank you for your reply and the degree of honesty you have shown. I think your reply shows more about who you really are as a person than any other in this thread.

The way this reply comes across to me is that the only real route you see for the future is for your husband to forgive you without any recriminations or consequences to yourself. You are not prepared to see him extract any revenge or incur any costs to yourself.

You are prepared to put up with sadness, lack of sleep etc for a while but what happens when he moves to anger and rage? Are you willing to put up with this?

Is this how you meant to come across?

If your husband does get to a stage of forgiveness without lasting consequences to you, how will you view him after that? Will you view him as weak? Will you lose any lingering respect for him?

I don’t know what to say to you anymore. Detailing everything that led to the physical contact seems to show this was a long premeditated act on your part with no concern, feelings or respect for your husband.

If you are really honest with yourself, do you want to be in this marriage for the long haul because I think many on here would say you don’t. You may protest otherwise but your actions do not show that.

I know I am being critical in the next paragraph, but I am trying to see how you, as a person, could help save this marriage.

To me, your replies show a cold, a callous, self centred, and self entitled personality which does not recognise or accept when they need to change. You expect everyone around you to accommodate you.

Do you see these traits in yourself? Is there a better you that has not come out in these posts?

Do you think that, in order to become a better person, you would be better seeing a psychiatrist rather than a therapist because I think your posts show you have a lot of issues to deal with.

Self analysis and awareness has to be a major starting point for you.

I hope you keep this dialogue open. It isn’t going to be easy and people are going to say uncomfortable things to you but, at the moment, I can only see this marriage disintegrating or you living with a beaten down shell of a man whom you no longer respect. That, in itself, is probably going to see you cheat further, not necessarily with the AP, but with the next person who you tip your hat at.


----------



## Laurentium

PurpleRoses said:


> I can understand that our trust has been broken, but it won't be rebuilt on surveillance. .....
> I don't know how to rebuild trust, I can only take it one day at a time. I want to see a therapist with him to help find solutions which can offer some solice.


To answer the question in the thread title first, I don't see forgiveness as a voluntary act, and therefore it is meaningless to "ask for" it. 

The only way to rebuild trust, over time, is to talk in an unmasked way, to generate some kind of emotional connection. To avoid intellectualising, or making cases. It's hard. 



PurpleRoses said:


> The entire quit your job thing is a complete non-issue. The only purpose it could serve is vindictive and that is a path I am not willing to go down. I am sure anyone who has tried revenge is divorced by now. You can't keep someone by taking things away, they will just resent you and it doesn't matter how justified you feel you are in it.


If he doesn't want that, then you don't need to do it. If he does, then you do; and labelling it as "revenge" and "vindictive" means you're not seeing it from his point of view. That thing about _"it doesn't matter how justified you feel"_ applies both ways.


----------



## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> I haven't talked about moving forward, it's not fair to put that sort of pressure on him. One thing at a time and this one thing is probably going to take a lot of time. He doesn't even like me hinting that he can have a bit of space if he needs it, he thinks that means I don't want to be around him.
> 
> As for what I am willing to live with? A lot of that stuff is trivial to me. If he wants to read my emails, he can read them, I'm sure he'd just get more bored than anything else. I can understand that our trust has been broken, but it won't be rebuilt on surveillance. If that made him feel better in the short term, I can't imagine him wanting to live like that for very long. Either way, I doubt he thinks I'm dumb enough to leave a trail of emails anyways. He can go through my phone if he wants too, but if he doesn't trust me, then finding nothing will just make him more suspicious. I don't know how to rebuild trust, I can only take it one day at a time. I want to see a therapist with him to help find solutions which can offer some solice.
> 
> As for what I'm willing to live with? I'm willing to live through a lot, if that means some bad times, then they are bad times we will have together, as long as he loves me and feels affection for me. If we wants revenge then this isn't going to work. You can't have revenge on someone you love; it's never enough and it's always empty in the end. It's never going to be even and fair here. If he feels like the only way to appease him is to give up things that I love and make me who I am, then he would have no affection left for me. He would have every right to that emotion, it would be my fault, I would be extremely sad, but I would accept that I messed things up beyond repair. This whole quit your job thing just has this tone that it's some sort of sacrifice to offer up as a price to pay......only pay to who? We didn't even have jobs when we met in college. Our accomplishments are ours together and we both take a sense of pride in what we have and what we build together. Some make it sound like married people are complete strangers who just meet in bed every night. I'm working from home now, the building isn't even going to be open next year. I didn't just run into him at work, I asked him to come in, he would have never been there if I didn't and he's not going to keep going if I'm not. The entire quit your job thing is a complete non-issue. The only purpose it could serve is vindictive and that is a path I am not willing to go down. I am sure anyone who has tried revenge is divorced by now. You can't keep someone by taking things away, they will just resent you and it doesn't matter how justified you feel you are in it. Forgiveness is about putting that aside and it is a lot to ask, I get that and that's why I have not asked him to say those words.
> 
> What can I do right now? He wants me to be more sexually available and I am going to be that. That's a start and it is something. I'm going to check in when I'm out without having to be asked. I will try to be more honest and patient. I don't expect perfection, but maybe something positive will come out of this.


Just file for divorce if he won't and start over. Your "marriage" is over.


----------



## ccpowerslave

LATERILUS79 said:


> You wore a sun dress to work where the only other person that would be there is your AP - a man that showed up ONLY because you asked him to.


Sun dress = kryptonite.

When I read she wore a sun dress I was like oh man…


----------



## EdDean

PurpleRoses said:


> I haven't talked about moving forward, it's not fair to put that sort of pressure on him. One thing at a time and this one thing is probably going to take a lot of time. He doesn't even like me hinting that he can have a bit of space if he needs it, he thinks that means I don't want to be around him.
> 
> As for what I am willing to live with? A lot of that stuff is trivial to me. If he wants to read my emails, he can read them, I'm sure he'd just get more bored than anything else. I can understand that our trust has been broken, but it won't be rebuilt on surveillance. If that made him feel better in the short term, I can't imagine him wanting to live like that for very long. Either way, I doubt he thinks I'm dumb enough to leave a trail of emails anyways. He can go through my phone if he wants too, but if he doesn't trust me, then finding nothing will just make him more suspicious. I don't know how to rebuild trust, I can only take it one day at a time. I want to see a therapist with him to help find solutions which can offer some solice.
> 
> As for what I'm willing to live with? I'm willing to live through a lot, if that means some bad times, then they are bad times we will have together, as long as he loves me and feels affection for me. If we wants revenge then this isn't going to work. You can't have revenge on someone you love; it's never enough and it's always empty in the end. It's never going to be even and fair here. If he feels like the only way to appease him is to give up things that I love and make me who I am, then he would have no affection left for me. He would have every right to that emotion, it would be my fault, I would be extremely sad, but I would accept that I messed things up beyond repair. This whole quit your job thing just has this tone that it's some sort of sacrifice to offer up as a price to pay......only pay to who? We didn't even have jobs when we met in college. Our accomplishments are ours together and we both take a sense of pride in what we have and what we build together. Some make it sound like married people are complete strangers who just meet in bed every night. I'm working from home now, the building isn't even going to be open next year. I didn't just run into him at work, I asked him to come in, he would have never been there if I didn't and he's not going to keep going if I'm not. The entire quit your job thing is a complete non-issue. The only purpose it could serve is vindictive and that is a path I am not willing to go down. I am sure anyone who has tried revenge is divorced by now. You can't keep someone by taking things away, they will just resent you and it doesn't matter how justified you feel you are in it. Forgiveness is about putting that aside and it is a lot to ask, I get that and that's why I have not asked him to say those words.
> 
> What can I do right now? He wants me to be more sexually available and I am going to be that. That's a start and it is something. I'm going to check in when I'm out without having to be asked. I will try to be more honest and patient. I don't expect perfection, but maybe something positive will come out of this.


Hi Purple .Thanks for sharing more of your story. I think you responded to some of the questions a lot of us in the forum have been asking. I still have one that I don’t remember you answering. Have you actually asked husband directly whether or not he is comfortable with you still working with your affair partner, no matter how remotely, or is that triggering anxiety for him?

I guess a lot of us are just assuming that he would not be OK with it. The no contact rule with an AP is just such a fundamental part of moving forward that most of can’t wrap our heads around any other answer. But we’re not your husband. He might feel differently.

And BTW it is not about revenge or getting even. If he wanted those things he would already be gone. It is simply about prioritizing his emotional well being above literally everything else right now.

So have actually asked him?


----------



## LATERILUS79

ccpowerslave said:


> Sun dress = kryptonite.
> 
> When I read she wore a sun dress I was like oh man…


yeah, I’m sorry. This is complete BS. There is no way she can convince me that wasn’t on purpose.

In addition, if it truly wasn’t meant to go physical, why keep going back for more? Was it also not meant to be physical multiple times?


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## QuietRiot

I’m going to say it again, working on the marriage is a moot point at this juncture. She’s not marriage material, just happens to be married still.

Please seek individual counseling and make your main priority healing yourself as a person, and being better. Maybe you’ll become a safer person to be married to at some point too.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

LATERILUS79 said:


> yeah, I’m sorry. This is complete BS. There is no way she can convince me that wasn’t on purpose.
> 
> In addition, if it truly wasn’t meant to go physical, why keep going back for more? Was it also not meant to be physical multiple times?


The whole story she told about the sun dress makes it very obvious she knew what she was doing that day. Although the AP may have initiated with a kiss she was definitely the pursuer and went to his house that day with every intention of getting laid. She got exactly what she wanted.


----------



## jjj858

Come on. You knew it was going to turn physical when you went to his apartment “to work”. You knew what was on the table and that sex was a possibility and putting yourself in the perfect place for it to happen was a conscious decision. You wore a sundress for easy access. I don’t sense much remorse from you at all. Just a “I did what I did and my husband can get over it” attitude. And surveillance? You’d be sharing your gps location with me at all times if you were my wife and would be reporting when and where you are at all times. Your husband is letting you off way too easy.


----------



## Blondilocks

PurpleRoses said:


> I haven't talked about moving forward, it's not fair to put that sort of pressure on him. One thing at a time and this one thing is probably going to take a lot of time. He doesn't even like me hinting that he can have a bit of space if he needs it, he thinks that means I don't want to be around him.
> 
> As for what I am willing to live with? A lot of that stuff is trivial to me. If he wants to read my emails, he can read them, I'm sure he'd just get more bored than anything else. I can understand that our trust has been broken, but it won't be rebuilt on surveillance. If that made him feel better in the short term, I can't imagine him wanting to live like that for very long. Either way, I doubt he thinks I'm dumb enough to leave a trail of emails anyways. He can go through my phone if he wants too, but if he doesn't trust me, then finding nothing will just make him more suspicious. I don't know how to rebuild trust, I can only take it one day at a time. I want to see a therapist with him to help find solutions which can offer some solice.
> 
> As for what I'm willing to live with? I'm willing to live through a lot, if that means some bad times, then they are bad times we will have together, as long as he loves me and feels affection for me. If we wants revenge then this isn't going to work. You can't have revenge on someone you love; it's never enough and it's always empty in the end. It's never going to be even and fair here. If he feels like the only way to appease him is to give up things that I love and make me who I am, then he would have no affection left for me. He would have every right to that emotion, it would be my fault, I would be extremely sad, but I would accept that I messed things up beyond repair. This whole quit your job thing just has this tone that it's some sort of sacrifice to offer up as a price to pay......only pay to who? We didn't even have jobs when we met in college. Our accomplishments are ours together and we both take a sense of pride in what we have and what we build together. Some make it sound like married people are complete strangers who just meet in bed every night. I'm working from home now, the building isn't even going to be open next year. I didn't just run into him at work, I asked him to come in, he would have never been there if I didn't and he's not going to keep going if I'm not. The entire quit your job thing is a complete non-issue. The only purpose it could serve is vindictive and that is a path I am not willing to go down. I am sure anyone who has tried revenge is divorced by now. You can't keep someone by taking things away, they will just resent you and it doesn't matter how justified you feel you are in it. Forgiveness is about putting that aside and it is a lot to ask, I get that and that's why I have not asked him to say those words.
> 
> What can I do right now? He wants me to be more sexually available and I am going to be that. That's a start and it is something. I'm going to check in when I'm out without having to be asked. I will try to be more honest and patient. I don't expect perfection, but maybe something positive will come out of this.


You need to get out of your head and into your heart. Everything above is about you. 

It is obvious that there were issues in your marriage that made you 'lonely' and you don't want to go into those. Ok. Ask yourself if you would have married your husband if you had known how it would play out. Right now, your marriage is over and you need to decide if you want to walk the road to reconciliation. Saying you'll walk that road only if you don't have to do this, that or the other is tantamount to saying you are opting out. Unless you are able to say that you will do whatever it takes without hesitation, you are destined to fail. 

You are lacking in empathy and your sympathy for your husband can use some work. Good luck.


----------



## jjj858

I don’t believe there were issues in her marriage that made her lonely. It’s just an excuse. It’s the same **** my ex said to me when she confessed to cheating. They always have a reason. Apparently clear communication with your partner on issues is too difficult. But fixing the issues is clearly not what she wanted. She wanted sex with somebody else and went after it. She got what she wanted and is now trying to play damage control and her gutless beta husband is going to let her get away with it.


----------



## VladDracul

PurpleRoses said:


> Yes, I have told him. It sucks and I hate doing it, I feel like I'm torturing him when we talk about it. He doesn't really believe I'm telling him the entire truth either, and why should he? He doesn't trust me anymore.


There's a tendency for a confessing spouse to give the "lite" version of the cheating process. Its human nature to fight what causes us pain and attempt a combination that both protects the betrayed spouse and describes yourself in the least damaging light. It really can't be done without sounding and looking like you're holding back. 
It is torturing for him . Reality often is torturing but its the shortest distance between discovery and recovery. You need to ensure he gets reality and act accordingly instead of holding back hoping to turn it into something it is not. His mind is hypersensitive now and based on what you say, will concoct stories about who he is, his safety, and lovability/romantic desirability. If he feels it, that's the way he thinks it is. Youre walking a fine line between explaining why you were vulnerable to an affair and sounding like you're blaming the affair on him or others. But the last thing he needs from you is forcing him to be a mind reader or fortune teller.


----------



## Casual Observer

jjj858 said:


> She got what she wanted and is now trying to play damage control and her gutless beta husband is going to let her get away with it.


We really know very little about her husband; everything’s filtered through OP’s desperate attempt to rationalize and desire practicality. It feels like she’s blocking out the horror of how he might actually be feeling. She doesn’t realize that it starts out by being in a state of shock, that insulates you for a bit, and that things get progressively _worse_ not better, as time goes on.


----------



## EdDean

Blondilocks said:


> You need to get out of your head and into your heart. Everything above is about you.
> 
> It is obvious that there were issues in your marriage that made you 'lonely' and you don't want to go into those. Ok. Ask yourself if you would have married your husband if you had known how it would play out. Right now, your marriage is over and you need to decide if you want to walk the road to reconciliation. Saying you'll walk that road only if you don't have to do this, that or the other is tantamount to saying you are opting out. Unless you are able to say that you will do whatever it takes without hesitation, you are destined to fail.
> 
> You are lacking in empathy and your sympathy for your husband can use some work. Good luck.


This. Exactly this. Especially the first paragraph. PR keeps looking at things from her point of view and not his. “Why bother being transparent with my emails when I could just fake others? Why consider looking for a different job when I mostly work from home?” Because the husband would see offers like those as signs of compassion for him and it would reassure him that she’s serious about doing whatever it takes. That it’s safe for him to even think about trusting her.


----------



## Divinely Favored

ccpowerslave said:


> Sun dress = kryptonite.
> 
> When I read she wore a sun dress I was like oh man…


She wanted to look pretty for her BF.


----------



## PurpleRoses

This getting a little silly. Someone asked me what I wouldn't be able to live with and I said that I wouldn't be willing to live with someone who lost love and affection for me. I'm not content to be miserable forever, I'm sorry, if he needs revenge on me, he can get it, but it would cost him and it's better to just say there is no future now. I didn't say that I wasn't willing to work with anything else. I don't have any contact with him, it isn't even a thing. If I want to get in contact with him, which I don't, then where I work makes no f'n difference. 

Someone asked me how it happened and for whatever reason I told him. Did anyone expect something I could be proud of? Yes, I dressed to look pretty for him, yes, I knew I was flirting and I knew that it was completely inappropriate. I had no reason to go there that was good. I'm not proud of it and I hate myself for it. I've never blamed anyone else but myself, it's just a fact of what happened that if he didn't make a move, I never would have first. 

I don't need to quit my job and become his dependant to show that I'm sorry and have compassion. You just want me to quit because you know it would hurt me and you don't care that it would hurt my family too. Well I do care about that. I was asked what the limits are. I'm sure that was just a trap, because nothing I said would have been acceptable. Well maybe if I said, he can shackle me in a tower and whip me twice a day.....


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## jjj858

👌


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## jjj858

PurpleRoses said:


> This getting a little silly. Someone asked me what I wouldn't be able to live with and I said that I wouldn't be willing to live with someone who lost love and affection for me. I'm not content to be miserable forever, I'm sorry, if he needs revenge on me, he can get it, but it would cost him and it's better to just say there is no future now. I didn't say that I wasn't willing to work with anything else. I don't have any contact with him, it isn't even a thing. If I want to get in contact with him, which I don't, then where I work makes no f'n difference.
> 
> Someone asked me how it happened and for whatever reason I told him. Did anyone expect something I could be proud of? Yes, I dressed to look pretty for him, yes, I knew I was flirting and I knew that it was completely inappropriate. I had no reason to go there that was good. I'm not proud of it and I hate myself for it. I've never blamed anyone else but myself, it's just a fact of what happened that if he didn't make a move, I never would have first.
> 
> I don't need to quit my job and become his dependant to show that I'm sorry and have compassion. You just want me to quit because you know it would hurt me and you don't care that it would hurt my family too. Well I do care about that. I was asked what the limits are. I'm sure that was just a trap, because nothing I said would have been acceptable. Well maybe if I said, he can shackle me in a tower and whip me twice a day.....


So again you’re remorseless and it’s all about you and your needs. Wouldn’t losing love and affection for you be a reasonable response from your husband for you deliberately seeking out sex from another man? And it will cost him? So you’re fine with the fact that you caused this and you potentially wrecked your home and potentially uprooted your poor husbands life and stability but you’re threatening to make a divorce hard and costly for him? Wow. There’s something broken deep within you.


----------



## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> This getting a little silly. *Someone asked me what I wouldn't be able to live with and I said that I wouldn't be willing to live with someone who lost love and affection for me. I'm not content to be miserable forever*, I'm sorry, if he needs revenge on me, he can get it, but it would cost him and *it's better to just say there is no future now.*


Hopefully for his sake, your husband feels the same as you. He shouldn't live with someone (you) who have lost love and affection for him. And yes, it is better to just say there is NO future now. If he isn't strong enough to say this, then you should say it. Because it it true.

Too bad he wasted 20 years of his life. Can't get those years back. Eventually reality will come to his mind.

Don't attend the 20 year anniversary because it is a sham and a lie.

Keep your job, the BF, and live the single life.


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## Cletus

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't need to quit my job and become his dependant to show that I'm sorry and have compassion. You just want me to quit because you know it would hurt me and you don't care that it would hurt my family too. Well I do care about that. I was asked what the limits are. I'm sure that was just a trap, because nothing I said would have been acceptable. Well maybe if I said, he can shackle me in a tower and whip me twice a day.....


You of course are not required to meet anyone other than your husband's definition of properly penitent. I too would tell anyone who required me to lose my income when a divorce might well be in my near future to pound sand, including my spouse. That is not a reasonable request to make, and no, you do not have to acquiesce to that demand. 

Yes, you can find a way to cheat, including with your affair partner, even if you no longer work with him. Which is why you need to fix both yourself and your now damaged marriage. Without fixing both, there will always be temptations that will cause you to want to put that sundress back on, at work, or elsewhere. If you cannot be trusted around everyone going forward, than you cannot be trusted around anyone. 

You probably should find a way to be EXTREMELY accommodating to you husband's demands on your time, your privacy, your freedom, and your internal though processes. But unless you can switch employment to an equal opportunity easily, you would be a fool to think that your husband isn't like the majority of the responders here who could not tolerate infidelity, no matter how much you might want to reconcile. Which means you will soon be single and on your own.


----------



## SRCSRC

PR: Ok, it's clear you refuse to do a blanket no contact with the AP. You say you don't want to talk to him. That is not enough. You have to take affirmative steps never to contact him again to even consider starting reconciliation. It seems that you refuse to do anything significant to modify your behavior to help your husband. You have to make it absolutely clear by e-mail, letter, or another form of communication to the AP, that you will never ever talk to him or see him again forever. Do you still have residual feelings that make this difficult for you? Your refusal to take this small step seems to indicate that you do. Enough already. It's clear that you weren't invested that greatly in your marriage when you decided to have an affair. I am beginning to wonder whether your affair had an element of exit to it. Sure you told your husband what you did. Is there a part of you, even if very small, that wanted to end the marriage and this would be a way of doing it? Regardless of what you say, it certainly sounds that way in many of your responses. 

Also, was it sheer guilt that ended the affair on your part? Did either of you discuss a possible future together? Did either of you bring it up? Your reluctance to do anything significant raises all kinds of questions. Are you lying to yourself right now?


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## Blondilocks

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't need to quit my job and become his dependant


No one is suggesting that you become his dependent. Are you saying that it would be impossible for you to find another job?

All I'm reading are excuses for you to not bother doing any work. Expecting your husband to tell you what he needs for you to do is sheer laziness on your part.


----------



## Asterix

PurpleRoses said:


> This getting a little silly. Someone asked me what I wouldn't be able to live with and I said that I wouldn't be willing to live with someone who lost love and affection for me. I'm not content to be miserable forever, I'm sorry, if he needs revenge on me, he can get it, but it would cost him and it's better to just say there is no future now. I didn't say that I wasn't willing to work with anything else. I don't have any contact with him, it isn't even a thing. If I want to get in contact with him, which I don't, then where I work makes no f'n difference.
> 
> Someone asked me how it happened and for whatever reason I told him. Did anyone expect something I could be proud of? Yes, I dressed to look pretty for him, yes, I knew I was flirting and I knew that it was completely inappropriate. I had no reason to go there that was good. I'm not proud of it and I hate myself for it. I've never blamed anyone else but myself, it's just a fact of what happened that if he didn't make a move, I never would have first.
> 
> I don't need to quit my job and become his dependant to show that I'm sorry and have compassion. You just want me to quit because you know it would hurt me and you don't care that it would hurt my family too. Well I do care about that. *I was asked what the limits are. I'm sure that was just a trap, because nothing I said would have been acceptable. Well maybe if I said, he can shackle me in a tower and whip me twice a day.....*


I'm not sure if you are saying this because you are frustrated or doing a strawman. It is understandable If you are feeling frustrated, but I think the road ahead is long and there's quite a ways to go before you can see some semblance of the destination. If you are just making a strawman statement, then I think you are on the wrong forum. 

At this point, your word is close to being worthless to your husband. So, if you want him to think that you are serious making the marriage work, then words are not going to help but your actions will help you over a period of time. I mean, what would you do, if he comes to you and says that "hey, I've been sleeping with this woman at work. It's nothing serious, it was just sex and I've stopped it. By the way, it's going to be difficult for me to find a different job so I'm going to hang onto this one for a while. I promise to you that I'll not go see this woman". The problem is that you'll always wonder what he'd do when he sees her in the office. You'll wonder if he's going to see her even if he tells you that he's not, since they work together at the same location.

The suggestion is for you to get a job at a different location so that you are at least removing the temptation and possibility from this situation. It's a series of concrete actions (not just words) that can help you towards mending this situation.


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## Harold Demure

Well done PR, straight to your default position - denial and defiance.

I see no saving grace in you whatsoever. I think you are truly a despicable person.

I hope your husband divorces you!

And out - because there is just no point and you are not worth it.


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## jjj858

It’s clear OP controls the marriage. Even if they reconcile she is still at high risk for cheating again or she may go along and pretend everything is ok and then pull the rug on him again one day with a divorce since she clearly doesn’t love or have attraction to him anymore anyways. Wish we were talking to her husband. I would tell him to get out now, it’s over. You’ve wasted twenty years with her, don’t waste a second more. Find someone who will treat you the way you deserve to be treated. OP already found someone else who treats her like she deserves.


----------



## Rus47

jjj858 said:


> It’s clear OP controls the marriage. Even if they reconcile she is still at high risk for cheating again or she may go along and pretend everything is ok and then pull the rug on him again one day with a divorce since she clearly doesn’t love or have attraction to him anymore anyways. Wish we were talking to her husband. I would tell him to get out now, it’s over. You’ve wasted twenty years with her, don’t waste a second more. Find someone who will treat you the way you deserve to be treated. OP already found someone else who treats her like she deserves.


This thread seems similar to a lot of those posted by wayward spouses. Not sure what they actually seek from the forum because they obviously don't care to treat their spouse with empathy and kindness. The only person they care about is themselves.


----------



## LATERILUS79

PurpleRoses said:


> I'm not content to be miserable forever, I'm sorry, if he needs revenge on me, he can get it, but it would cost him and it's better to just say there is no future now.


What exactly would it cost him? 

You? 

Sounds like that isn't a high price to pay - but it is awfully clear that you think VERY highly of yourself.



PurpleRoses said:


> Yes, I dressed to look pretty for him, yes, I knew I was flirting and I knew that it was completely inappropriate. I had no reason to go there that was good. I'm not proud of it and I hate myself for it. I've never blamed anyone else but myself, it's just a fact of what happened that if he didn't make a move, I never would have first.


LoL. This is good. So you are now telling the truth. The way you keep skirting around the truth to a bunch of strangers makes me wonder just how bad it is for your husband. So you did exactly what I mentioned before. YOU set up the whole thing to put yourself into a situation. YOU made the opportunity blatantly obvious to a guy that is of such low moral character that he would sleep with a married woman. You didn't make the first move, but you were screaming at the top of your lungs, "Come get some!". 

When you skirt around the truth to all of us strangers, are you doing that to yourself as well? Is this the stuff you tell yourself to feel better? Do you tell yourself, "What I did wasn't that bad. I mean, I didn't make the first move. I didn't mean for it to go physical.". My guess is that you definitely do that. 

You've said that you've taken responsibility of your affair. No, I don't think you have. If you truly did that, you'd tell your husband that you did EVERYTHING in your power to make it 100% clear to the OM that you wanted to have sex with him. You were just too much of a coward to make the first move.


PurpleRoses said:


> I don't need to quit my job and become his dependant to show that I'm sorry and have compassion. You just want me to quit because you know it would hurt me and you don't care that it would hurt my family too. Well I do care about that. I was asked what the limits are. I'm sure that was just a trap, because nothing I said would have been acceptable. Well maybe if I said, he can shackle me in a tower and whip me twice a day.....


I agree with you 100% here. Do not quit your job. You have a family to take care of. I think once your husband figures out that your level of remorse is extremely low that you will end up with a divorce.


----------



## PurpleRoses

jjj858 said:


> So again you’re remorseless and it’s all about you and your needs. Wouldn’t losing love and affection for you be a reasonable response from your husband for you deliberately seeking out sex from another man? And it will cost him? So you’re fine with the fact that you caused this and you potentially wrecked your home and potentially uprooted your poor husbands life and stability but you’re threatening to make a divorce hard and costly for him? Wow. There’s something broken deep within you.


I never said it would be unreasonable. In fact, I said that it would be completely reasonable. But read whatever you like.


----------



## sideways

A couple of things.

"I wouldn't be willing to live with someone who lost love and affection for me"??? "I'm not content to be miserable forever"?

So you cheat on him, stab him in the heart, betray him, lie to him, blow his world up, the one person that trusted you unconditionally, and you're NOT going to put up with him losing "love" and "affection" for you??

Than you need to end this sham of a marriage IMMEDIATELY because no matter what he's saying to you he most certainly has lost some "love" and "affection" for you and ANYONE else in this same situation would do likewise for crying out loud.

Doesn't mean he's not willing to try and work on things but there's NO doubt that he's lost "trust" with you, his "unconditional love" has taken a hit towards you, his "faith" in you has taken a hit, his "joy" in your marriage has taken a HUGE hit and the laundry list in himself that has taken a HUGE hit is extremely LONG but you DO NOT get it because your selfishness is ALL about what YOU DO NOT want to put up with or lose.

As for your job. It does NOT matter what we say about it or what you should do. Nope. It's about what your husband wants and NOT what you would want.

The shame of this is, your husband isn't going to tell you to do this more than likely because he knows EXACTLY what you've already stated on here to us, and that by you doing this it would be him being vindictive and wanting revenge asking you to do this (asking you to quit).

So he's going to shut his pie hole and not say anything just like he's not going to cancel the party because if you quit your job people (family and friends etc) are going to start asking questions why? And he doesn't want to have to address it because in his denial he's trying to protect you and what you are NOT getting is you should be doing EVERYTHING in your power to protect him but you're not going to do this because it's all about you and what you want.

Until you get this you are NOT worthy of reconciliation because love is putting someone else above you. Your husband is willing to do this even after being stabbed in the heart by you and being betrayed but here you are making demands about what you won't do because you don't want to????

You know, I bet your husband didn't want you to find this other man attractive, I bet he didn't want you to wear a sundress to work that day because you wanted to look nice and sexy for your AP, I bet he didn't want you to go to his apartment during work, I bet he didn't want you to have a glass of wine, I bet he didn't want you to be thinking that you hoped that your AP would make the first move, and most importantly he did NOT want you to let another man have his way with you and than have you come home and lie to his face and to repeat this numerous other times.

But forgive my rant because all of this is BS because in your world it's ALL about what you want and how dare your husband ask you to try and do some things that may potentially restore all the things that YOU did that destroyed so many areas of his life towards you (and himself). However if he does ask you any of this he's just being vindictive and revengeful??

JUST WOW!!!


----------



## EdDean

Remorse doesn’t see such things as a punishment on oneself but rather as a gift to the the betrayed. An opportunity to move closer to forgiveness.

Does the BH even want the gift? Who knows? Hard to tell if it’s even been offered.


----------



## Casual Observer

Cletus said:


> You of course are not required to meet anyone other than your husband's definition of properly penitent. I too would tell anyone who required me to lose my income when a divorce might well be in my near future to pound sand, including my spouse. That is not a reasonable request to make, and no, you do not have to acquiesce to that demand.


This is a really screwed up way of looking at this. It completely misses the point. It's an opportunity for deflection.

The issue is not losing the job. The issue is solid commitment to 100% zero contact with the affair partner. Why is this so important? That is really the only issue that needs to be discussed. Why 100% zero contact matters.


----------



## GusPolinski

PurpleRoses said:


> This getting a little silly. Someone asked me what I wouldn't be able to live with and I said that I wouldn't be willing to live with someone who lost love and affection for me. I'm not content to be miserable forever, I'm sorry, if he needs revenge on me, he can get it, but it would cost him and it's better to just say there is no future now. I didn't say that I wasn't willing to work with anything else. I don't have any contact with him, it isn't even a thing. If I want to get in contact with him, which I don't, then where I work makes no f'n difference.
> 
> Someone asked me how it happened and for whatever reason I told him. Did anyone expect something I could be proud of? Yes, I dressed to look pretty for him, yes, I knew I was flirting and I knew that it was completely inappropriate. I had no reason to go there that was good. I'm not proud of it and I hate myself for it. I've never blamed anyone else but myself, it's just a fact of what happened that if he didn't make a move, I never would have first.
> 
> I don't need to quit my job and become his dependant to show that I'm sorry and have compassion. You just want me to quit because you know it would hurt me and you don't care that it would hurt my family too. Well I do care about that. I was asked what the limits are. I'm sure that was just a trap, because nothing I said would have been acceptable. Well maybe if I said, he can shackle me in a tower and whip me twice a day.....


You should understand that, if it were your husband here telling this tale instead of you, most would be (rightfully) advising that he divorce you.


----------



## Cletus

Casual Observer said:


> This is a really screwed up way of looking at this. It completely misses the point. It's an opportunity for deflection.
> 
> The issue is not losing the job. The issue is solid commitment to 100% zero contact with the affair partner. Why is this so important? That is really the only issue that needs to be discussed. Why 100% zero contact matters.


I am not missing the point. In a perfect world where the OP can find an equivalent job without six months unemployed, becoming financially dependent on someone who is very likely to divorce her, quitting the job is a necessary step.

That may not be the world we all live in. It also will not stop someone who is not committed to monogamy in the future from finding another partner, or even the same one. 

Perhaps OP should look for a new job opportunity and do everything in her power to make it happen, but becoming unemployed right now is in EVERYONE's worst interests, including her husband, even if he doesn't realize it at this time.


----------



## Cuobs

.


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## Casual Observer

GusPolinski said:


> You should understand that, if it were your husband here telling this tale instead of you, most would be (rightfully) advising that he divorce you.


It feels like she knows that, and if that's the case, why bother doing anything if the result is a foregone conclusion?

We've seen the pattern here more than a few times. 
-The initial post of oh God I screwed up, how can I fix this.

TAM response that what the wayward spouse did wasn't just a "thing" that can be easily fixed
Wayward spouse comes back with more than a bit of a 'tude saying TAM is off base, what about all the things that lead up to it, marital history gets a quick re-write
Wayward spouse recognizes their betrayed spouse is a lot more messed up over this than they thought. Wayward spouse not prepared for the fact that things will get a lot worse before they get better, if they ever do. Wayward Spouse thought the biggest blow to betrayed spouse would be the initial discovery. The idea that it could get worse and worse and worse doesn't make sense. Feeling of what more can I do? Wayward spouse focuses on the idea that he/she is being punished and that's not fair. Will he/she be punished for life?
Wayward spouse finally recognizes that it can take YEARS and success at reconciliation is susceptible to falling apart at any time. Is that fair to either spouse? Reality finally settles in.

Short answer? The wayward spouse really has no clue how deeply the betrayal affected their spouse. They (the wayward spouse) continue to act like it was a "thing" that can be fixed if only this or that, that the past is the past and time to move on. That they're a different person now. That wasn't really them. Or. They actually take advantage of guilt the betrayed spouse mistakenly feels for "causing" the affair.


----------



## EdDean

Cletus said:


> I am not missing the point. In a perfect world where the OP can find an equivalent job without six months unemployed, becoming financially dependent on someone who is very likely to divorce her, quitting the job is a necessary step.
> 
> That may not be the world we all live in. It also will not stop someone who is not committed to monogamy in the future from finding another partner, or even the same one.
> 
> Perhaps OP should look for a new job opportunity and do everything in her power to make it happen, but becoming unemployed right now is in EVERYONE's worst interests, including her husband, even if he doesn't realize it at this time.


Nobody has actually suggested any of that. When the AP is co worker it is tricky. No doubt. Reconciliation does not succeed most of the time but it never succeeds when there is even a chance of communication with the WS. The BS can’t ever relax.

So it’s tricky. But the offer at least has to be made. It’s up to the BS to decide what’s reasonable now. The BS might not care. But if the BS days “Yeah I need you to put in for a transfer” then the WS needs to make their decision. Give R a chance and move forward without resentment or admit the relationship is over. Divorce with dignity.

No one is saying “quit now” without planning or time. It would have to be a joint decision to move forward together slowly and with thoughtfulness. But the idea needs to be discussed between the two of them.


----------



## Casual Observer

Cletus said:


> I am not missing the point. In a perfect world where the OP can find an equivalent job without six months unemployed, becoming financially dependent on someone who is very likely to divorce her, quitting the job is a necessary step.
> 
> That may not be the world we all live in. It also will not stop someone who is not committed to monogamy in the future from finding another partner, or even the same one.
> 
> Perhaps OP should look for a new job opportunity and do everything in her power to make it happen, but becoming unemployed right now is in EVERYONE's worst interests, including her husband, even if he doesn't realize it at this time.


No. The point where financial stability becomes more important than "doing what needs to be done" for the betrayed partner is the point where one has to accept that you're not really marriage material. 

I might feel differently if OP has said "I am committed to never again contacting my AP, and will do everything in my power to make sure there is no possible interaction at work. I will discuss this with HR and look for reassignment. I can't imagine how I would feel if my husband had cheated with someone at work, and that person was still there. If all else fails I will look for a job elsewhere."

Had she said that, or anything even close, I'd feel differently. But she remains engaged in a world of the "practical" and has been placing limits on what she can be expected to do, before ever being asked. She's likely hoping her husband is similarly "practical" which allows her to escape thinking about just how badly this is affecting him.


----------



## Cletus

Casual Observer said:


> No.


Ok.


----------



## Arkansas

PurpleRoses

I was where your husband is as far as having a cheating wife. I know why he asks the questions he asks, and why he feels the way he feels.

I simply don't think you are being honest with yourself and I see that in your posts because they echo in many ways how my ex-wife said things.

She never was really sorry for what she chose to do. All the words about family and love and trust and caring and all that meant nothing when she planned her affairs. You planned yours too - you absolutely knew what you were feeling when you went to that guy's house. When you admit that, when you recognize what you did wasn't an accident but 100% intentional, then maybe you can have a path for honest discussion with your husband

He will eventually realize what I just said. His mind doesn't understand his reality right now - you destroyed what he believed in. His mind won't live like that forever, a mind has to have something it understands.

Do you want to know what my mind finally settled on? Please read this - I loved my wife with everything, I trusted her 100% and had 100% faith in her. Yours did too, didn't he? It took me about 6 months - I did a 7 day trip and in those many hours of crying and deep thought I came to a conclusion.

My wife died. Not physically, but who she was died. That beautiful woman who was honest and true and loving and caring and my wife .... she was gone, replaced with a lying, cheating woman. When I realized that. .... I planned my exit strategy and I kicked her sorry ass to the curb.

I gave her every chance - your husband is too isn't he? My ex NEVER was going to give up her adultery, NEVER going to admit it was truly wrong, OWN it all and label/remember it as degusting and nasty, evil and sin.

If you can't either, then let the man go. Don't torture him


----------



## Willnotbill

@PurpleRoses After reading your comments about leaving your job I think you misunderstand why that has been suggested by several people as a possible requirement of reconciliation of your marriage. 

Leaving your job is not a punishment for infidelity. It would be a requirement for no contact with the OM. Most reconciliations require 100% no contact with the AP. Your place of employment may also trigger your husband because that is the place where you saw your AP. Unless your husband is a rare person, he will be triggered by events, places or actions and reminded of your affair for many years. When this happens he will want to talk about the affair and ask more question. Its like stabbing him with the knife of the affair all over again. For this reason its important to eliminate as many of these triggers as possible.

Of course you could have contact with your AP or any other man outside of your work to carry on an affair. Since you and your AP work at the same place and may have contact there its a big deal that I think you are missing.


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## Zedd

To be clear. She doesn't need to leave her job because the OM is there. She makes a valid point, if she really wanted to see him, leaving the job wouldn't change that. they could meet up in a parking lot during lunch somewhere. Where there's a will, there's a way.

That said, when I originally said it should be something she should be prepared to do, I didn't mean to just up and leave. Rather, it could be something her husband requests of her at some point because he doesn't want her working with him anymore. And, at that point, she should either be prepared to leave, or prepared to leave her marriage. If her husband never asks, there's no reason for her to leave the job so long as she's comfortable managing the situation.


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## jjj858

I wouldn’t be comfortable with her continuing to work there if she was my wife. But ultimately it doesn’t really matter. If this guy was a threat there someone else will be a threat wherever she goes. Because the problem is in her. She’s the issue, not the other men. That guy was just taking advantage of what she was willingly offering up.


----------



## OddOne

I agree with those that think OP's BH is going to rug sweep. OP becoming a better person is solely going to be about her internal desire to become one, and not because of some ultimatum from her BH or fear that she will lose him. She knows she won't. Not of his own choice, anyway. Her BH isn't going to do much more than ask a lot of questions to help him process the betrayal, and do whatever he can to make her love him again. The worst she's going to face from him is dealing with his depression and being his caretaker at times. There will be no major outburst on his part. He's not going to have any revenge affair. Most likely, within several months to a few years time, OP will update that the marriage isn't perfect, but it's better than it was, all at little cost to her. OP merely needs to slow down for the occasional bump in the road.


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## Casual Observer

Arkansas said:


> My wife died. Not physically, but who she was died. That beautiful woman who was honest and true and loving and caring and my wife .... she was gone, replaced with a lying, cheating woman. When I realized that. .... I planned my exit strategy and I kicked her sorry ass to the curb.
> 
> I gave her every chance - your husband is too isn't he? My ex NEVER was going to give up her adultery, NEVER going to admit it was truly wrong, OWN it all and label/remember it as degusting and nasty, evil and sin.
> 
> If you can't either, then let the man go. Don't torture him


What you left out here is that OP's replies, even her original post, are following a pattern that fits your ex. Not all do. It is not inevitable that an affair cannot be overcome. It's really hard work, and it usually doesn't work out, but it can. But the nature of OPs messaging here is that it won't because, unless she has some sort of epiphany, unless the affair itself was borne out of a trauma that could be dealt with, her messaging tells the story. Above all, her need that advice be practical, something with a limit to what she has to sacrifice, tells the story.

She's even given us a version of "It's not right that my husband could request absolutely anything and I'd have to comply" speech. Maybe she should read @Cici1990's story and see how such feelings have evolved, or not, for someone else.


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## BigDaddyNY

PurpleRoses said:


> This getting a little silly. Someone asked me what I wouldn't be able to live with and I said that I wouldn't be willing to live with someone who lost love and affection for me. I'm not content to be miserable forever, I'm sorry, if he needs revenge on me, he can get it, but it would cost him and it's better to just say there is no future now. I didn't say that I wasn't willing to work with anything else. I don't have any contact with him, it isn't even a thing. If I want to get in contact with him, which I don't, then where I work makes no f'n difference.
> 
> *Someone asked me how it happened and for whatever reason I told him. Did anyone expect something I could be proud of? Yes, I dressed to look pretty for him, yes, I knew I was flirting and I knew that it was completely inappropriate. I had no reason to go there that was good. I'm not proud of it and I hate myself for it. I've never blamed anyone else but myself, it's just a fact of what happened that if he didn't make a move, I never would have first.*
> 
> I don't need to quit my job and become his dependant to show that I'm sorry and have compassion. You just want me to quit because you know it would hurt me and you don't care that it would hurt my family too. Well I do care about that. I was asked what the limits are. I'm sure that was just a trap, because nothing I said would have been acceptable. Well maybe if I said, he can shackle me in a tower and whip me twice a day.....



There you go again, slipping in another excuse/ deflection. You wouldn't have made the move first, lol. You made that move that morning. You got up that morning and got yourself all dressed up for the sole purpose of getting in the sack with that guy.


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## jjj858

👌


----------



## Tested_by_stress

after reading the OP's last few posts, I would be more than shocked if this doesn't end in divorce.


----------



## Casual Observer

jjj858 said:


> I don’t believe for a second that she hated any of it either. She hates the expectation of fidelity in a marriage that she failed to live up to. She hates the idea of only being expected to sleep with one man while married. The cheater doesn’t hate the cheating, they hate the consequences. It’s likely it was a much more sexually exciting and physically satisfying experience for her.


I don't think so. I think she hates being second-guessed and having to adhere to boundaries not her own. It's quite an extrapolation going from that to saying she hates monogamy. She may have even had a real moment of OMG how could I have done something so terrible!!! But a self-protection mechanism kicked in. That's a real thing, this desire to preserve your own way of thinking. It can take over on a moment's notice, without warning. I've seen this first hand in my own marriage. Someone bends to a point (receptive of ideas not their own) and then bam, what was I thinking, that's not right, I don't have to listen to this.

Cheating may be a symptom, not the disease. That doesn't minimize the cheating in any way whatsoever. Just changes how we view its cause, and where to look elsewhere for more destruction.


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## farsidejunky

jjj858 said:


> I don’t believe for a second that she hated any of it either. She hates the expectation of fidelity in a marriage that she failed to live up to. She hates the idea of only being expected to sleep with one man while married. The cheater doesn’t hate the cheating, they hate the consequences. It’s likely it was a much more sexually exciting and physically satisfying experience for her.


Speaking as a Moderator:

Post like this are useless, hysterical, and inflammatory. It is your third such post that I have read in this thread just today.

It isn't accurate. 

It isn't helpful.

It serves no purpose.

Manage your triggers. The OP may or may not listen to you...may or may not agree with you...may or may not adhere to your world view...

If she doesn't, it does not give one the right to treat her without dignity and respect.

For you (and anyone else) who wants to try to post in such a way in this thread, consider it your final warning. Bans will follow.




Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## SRCSRC

PR: Again, I must ask you why you refuse to go no contact with the AP forever? Your husband needs to hear that you sent AP a no-contact communication and that you will never see or talk or communicate with the AP ever again. He is not a friend and you must commit to never ever engage with him on any level ever again. In fact, you should show your husband the written communication before you send it. I sense that you refuse to give this guy up as a friend. Maybe you won't talk to him today or tomorrow, but how about a couple of years from now? Do you honestly think you have the right to remain friends with this guy? 

If you can't do this simple act to help your husband, one can only conclude that you have residual feelings for the AP or you value your marriage and your husband's below your desire to maintain some contact when you feel you want to do so. WILL YOU GIVE UP ALL CONTACT with the AP FOREVER and EVER? It's a simple question. Waywards who want to reconcile jump at the chance to do just that. You aren't doing it. Why? I suggest you be honest with yourself and all of us who are trying to figure out what the heck is going on in your mind.

The written communication of no-contact is for your husband's benefit. It also makes it crystal clear to the AP that he is to respect your wishes and stay out of your life. None of us know what you said to the AP when you ended it. Speculating is a waste of time. We don't know what you said to the AP when you told him not to come to the party. Speculation is a waste of time. BUT you must make it crystal clear to the AP, your husband, and yourself that he is (1) no longer or will he ever be a friend while you are married to your husband and that there will be no contact forever and ever. You should follow the lead of other waywards and crystalize it by written communication. If you can't do this simple act, you better understand why you are willing to give so little to your husband's healing.


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## Kaliber

SRCSRC said:


> Your husband needs to hear that you sent AP a no-contact communication and that you will never see or talk or communicate with the AP ever again.


Why is every one worried about the husband, if he wants her to quit her job he will request that from PR!
Her husband can be a complete doormat or Beta Simp for all we know!
If he doesn't stand up for himself we don't need to!


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## SRCSRC

Kaliber said:


> Why is every one worried about the husband, if he wants her to quit her job he will request that from PR!
> Her husband can be a complete doormat or Beta Simp for all we know!
> If he doesn't stand up for himself we don't need to!


My entry has little to do with her employment. She has already said that she will continue to work at home and that this will carry into next year. So the employment issue is on the back burner for now. Let's start with a clear and concise pledge never to contact, communicate, see or engage with the AP EVER AGAIN. Put it in a written communication to the AP. That is what waywards do who wish to save their marriage. It is a small act. But if she can't do that, she is lying to herself that she wishes to save the marriage.


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## Asterix

Kaliber said:


> Why is every one worried about the husband, if he wants her to quit her job he will request that from PR!
> Her husband can be a complete doormat or Beta Simp for all we know!
> If he doesn't stand up for himself we don't need to!


This is a concern. Because he may want to rug sweep this because he feels like that's too much to stand up for himself and it is in @PurpleRoses 's best interest that she does so.

The problem with this is, the issue stays there like a splinter under the skin. So, sometimes, it unexpectedly blows up and more often then not, the results could be catastrophic. Also it becomes more difficult to find a partner later in life. Not that living alone by oneself is a bad thing but that's not the preferred option for a lot of people. The kids usually look upon very unfavorably towards the cheating parent and it effectively poisons their relationship.

Granted, that none this may come to pass in @PurpleRoses relationship, but there's always the possibility. So, it's better to deal with the elephant when it is a baby instead of when it is a big grown up elephant. Hope that makes some sense.

Edited to add: I understand if the husband is a doormat then we don't need to stand up for him. BUT he is not here asking for help in defusing this situation. @PurpleRoses is. So, I'm here to mention my suggestions that could help her deal with this issue. Of course, these are just suggestions and of course it's up to @PurpleRoses to decide the best way (for her) to proceed.


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## Casual Observer

Kaliber said:


> Why is every one worried about the husband, if he wants her to quit her job he will request that from PR!
> Her husband can be a complete doormat or Beta Simp for all we know!
> If he doesn't stand up for himself we don't need to!


At some point, he likely will want this. He is going to be cycling through a huge array of emotions and plans, and OP needs to be aware of this. OP occasionally admits that she doesn't know what he's thinking while at other times she makes decisions based on what he hasn't said. 

I suggest that it is not reasonable to expect OPs husband to act rationally at this point. Further, that rationality/clarity will be something that has an ebb and flow to it for years to come. That is not, repeat NOT, the husband's fault. Doormat or Alpha Male, he is not likely prepared to handle this. Some of this discussion comes across like blaming the victim, or simply not having an awareness of what betrayal feels like. If the latter, you are fortunate and I hope you never experience it in the future.


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## jim123

The reason you look for another job is because the job will.always be part of the affair and healing has a far greater chance of not happening.


As you look at the costs, maybe less income but still better than two household
S.


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## Arkansas

to me giving up the job is a token, its showing husband you're willing to do anything to show remorse and actions to make some kind of ammends

my ex did none of that - and I didn't want her to because I thought it would make me look like I wanted her to suffer or something like that - and I realize now it played 100% into what she was doing


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## ABHale

PurpleRoses said:


> I haven't talked about moving forward, it's not fair to put that sort of pressure on him. One thing at a time and this one thing is probably going to take a lot of time. He doesn't even like me hinting that he can have a bit of space if he needs it, he thinks that means I don't want to be around him.
> 
> As for what I am willing to live with? A lot of that stuff is trivial to me. If he wants to read my emails, he can read them, I'm sure he'd just get more bored than anything else. I can understand that our trust has been broken, but it won't be rebuilt on surveillance. If that made him feel better in the short term, I can't imagine him wanting to live like that for very long. Either way, I doubt he thinks I'm dumb enough to leave a trail of emails anyways. He can go through my phone if he wants too, but if he doesn't trust me, then finding nothing will just make him more suspicious. I don't know how to rebuild trust, I can only take it one day at a time. I want to see a therapist with him to help find solutions which can offer some solice.
> 
> As for what I'm willing to live with? I'm willing to live through a lot, if that means some bad times, then they are bad times we will have together, as long as he loves me and feels affection for me. If we wants revenge then this isn't going to work. You can't have revenge on someone you love; it's never enough and it's always empty in the end. It's never going to be even and fair here. If he feels like the only way to appease him is to give up things that I love and make me who I am, then he would have no affection left for me. He would have every right to that emotion, it would be my fault, I would be extremely sad, but I would accept that I messed things up beyond repair. This whole quit your job thing just has this tone that it's some sort of sacrifice to offer up as a price to pay......only pay to who? We didn't even have jobs when we met in college. Our accomplishments are ours together and we both take a sense of pride in what we have and what we build together. Some make it sound like married people are complete strangers who just meet in bed every night. I'm working from home now, the building isn't even going to be open next year. I didn't just run into him at work, I asked him to come in, he would have never been there if I didn't and he's not going to keep going if I'm not. The entire quit your job thing is a complete non-issue. The only purpose it could serve is vindictive and that is a path I am not willing to go down. I am sure anyone who has tried revenge is divorced by now. You can't keep someone by taking things away, they will just resent you and it doesn't matter how justified you feel you are in it. Forgiveness is about putting that aside and it is a lot to ask, I get that and that's why I have not asked him to say those words.
> 
> What can I do right now? He wants me to be more sexually available and I am going to be that. That's a start and it is something. I'm going to check in when I'm out without having to be asked. I will try to be more honest and patient. I don't expect perfection, but maybe something positive will come out of this.


You don’t cheat on someone you love either.

You are can live through a lot as long as he shows love and affection.

Do you ever reread what you have typed out?

there are several books out there to give you the answers you are looking for. You just have to look for them.

For the most part counseling sucks for the betrayed husband because they tend to blame him for your actions. I really don’t recommend counseling.

Individual counseling for yourself is good as long as the counselor holds you responsible for your actions.


----------



## ABHale

PurpleRoses said:


> This getting a little silly. Someone asked me what I wouldn't be able to live with and I said that I wouldn't be willing to live with someone who lost love and affection for me. I'm not content to be miserable forever, I'm sorry, if he needs revenge on me, he can get it, but it would cost him and it's better to just say there is no future now. I didn't say that I wasn't willing to work with anything else. I don't have any contact with him, it isn't even a thing. If I want to get in contact with him, which I don't, then where I work makes no f'n difference.
> 
> Someone asked me how it happened and for whatever reason I told him. Did anyone expect something I could be proud of? Yes, I dressed to look pretty for him, yes, I knew I was flirting and I knew that it was completely inappropriate. I had no reason to go there that was good. I'm not proud of it and I hate myself for it. I've never blamed anyone else but myself, it's just a fact of what happened that if he didn't make a move, I never would have first.
> 
> I don't need to quit my job and become his dependant to show that I'm sorry and have compassion. You just want me to quit because you know it would hurt me and you don't care that it would hurt my family too. Well I do care about that. I was asked what the limits are. I'm sure that was just a trap, because nothing I said would have been acceptable. Well maybe if I said, he can shackle me in a tower and whip me twice a day.....


How is your husband supposed to show true love and affection after what you did? I think that is what baffles the hell out of me. Don’t know what advice to give except to find material on how to help you spouse heal after you cheat. How to rebuild trust. It is out there, you just have to be willing to do the work to find it.


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## syhoybenden

ABHale said:


> you just have to be willing to do the work .


Work??

WORK!!!!!!!??

Oh God no! Anything but that!


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## Tdbo

"Is it fair to ask for forgiveness?"
I don't know.......
What have you done to EARN forgiveness?
After reading the thread, I haven't seen that part yet.


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## NorthernGuard

PurpleRoses said:


> As for what I am willing to live with? A lot of that stuff is trivial to me. If he wants to read my emails, he can read them, I'm sure he'd just get more bored than anything else. I can understand that our trust has been broken, but it won't be rebuilt on surveillance. If that made him feel better in the short term, I can't imagine him wanting to live like that for very long. Either way, I doubt he thinks I'm dumb enough to leave a trail of emails anyways. He can go through my phone if he wants too, but if he doesn't trust me, then finding nothing will just make him more suspicious. I don't know how to rebuild trust, I can only take it one day at a time. I want to see a therapist with him to help find solutions which can offer some solice.
> 
> As for what I'm willing to live with? I'm willing to live through a lot, if that means some bad times, then they are bad times we will have together, as long as he loves me and feels affection for me. If we wants revenge then this isn't going to work. You can't have revenge on someone you love; it's never enough and it's always empty in the end. It's never going to be even and fair here. If he feels like the only way to appease him is to give up things that I love and make me who I am, then he would have no affection left for me. He would have every right to that emotion, it would be my fault, I would be extremely sad, but I would accept that I messed things up beyond repair. This whole quit your job thing just has this tone that it's some sort of sacrifice to offer up as a price to pay......only pay to who? We didn't even have jobs when we met in college. Our accomplishments are ours together and we both take a sense of pride in what we have and what we build together. Some make it sound like married people are complete strangers who just meet in bed every night. I'm working from home now, the building isn't even going to be open next year. I didn't just run into him at work, I asked him to come in, he would have never been there if I didn't and he's not going to keep going if I'm not. The entire quit your job thing is a complete non-issue. The only purpose it could serve is vindictive and that is a path I am not willing to go down.


I think if you want any chance of trying to heal your husband and save your marriage you need to seriously reconsider your oh so misguided stance and belief that staying in contact in any way with your AP (which is exactly what you're doing by continuing to work with him) is ok and that rebuilding trust by making yourself fully open and accountable to your husband isn't integral to the process for him. Please check out the associated link below the info I've posted and read the rest. As admirable as it may be that you've confessed if you're not willing to go the distance and give your husband what he needs you should just file for divorce so he can move on and heal without you and find someone he can trust.
‐--------------
SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.
---------------








Things that every wayward spouse needs to know


I have thought about posting this for some time now. It is not original to me, and chances are that many here have already seen this. It is from another forum (that can be found by searching on the title of this thread). If you go to that forum/thread, the person posting this says that they do no...




www.loveshack.org


----------



## BigDaddyNY

@PurpleRoses should take note of this from CiCi's thread. She is another WW that is much further along in the process. She has some first hand insight into the no contact with the OM stance. I hope she doesn't mind pulling this in here, but it is extremely relevant.

Edit... I deleted the post, just left the link so only those with access can reach it, including PR. Thank You @Rus47



Cici1990 said:


> *deleted for privacy*


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## Rus47

I believe we are not to copy anything in the private area into the non-private. In fact believe that is one of the rules for tge private area. PR had posted to Cicci's thread and can read Cicci response to CO herself. (If she is still reading TAM)


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## GoldenR

PR - 

I was feeling bad for you, rooting for you.... until these latest set of posts from you. 

You come off very arrogant, verrrry entitled. Very much "Yes I cheated and if my H doesn't like it, he can leave."

I don't think you're remorseful AT ALL. 

You state that you will not quit your job. Ok...so just keep interacting with your boyfriend there then? How must your H feel? You cheat on him and then keep working with your man. 

Smmfh...

You must really hate your husband.


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## BigDaddyNY

Rus47 said:


> I believe we are not to copy anything in the private area into the non-private. In fact believe that is one of the rules for tge private area. PR had posted to Cicci's thread and can read Cicci response to CO herself. (If she is still reading TAM)


Thank you @Rus47 I forgot CiCi's was in the private section. Although here entire thread has been posted and read aloud on YouTube, so I don't think the post was a breach of privacy. Either way I deleted it and just left the link to the thread so that access is controlled. Thank you again for pointing that out.


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## NorthernGuard

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't need to quit my job and become his dependant to show that I'm sorry and have compassion. You just want me to quit because you know it would hurt me and you don't care that it would hurt my family too. Well I do care about that. I was asked what the limits are. I'm sure that was just a trap, because nothing I said would have been acceptable. Well maybe if I said, he can shackle me in a tower and whip me twice a day.....


You seem a smart enough woman that I find it very hard to believe that when people are telling you that you need to quit your job they're saying it because they want you to be dependant on your husband and because they're trying to hurt you. They're telling you this so you'll stop hurting your husband!

You quit your job because your AP works there, period! If your affair partner wasn't a coworker and your affair wasn't facilitated through your job no one would be telling you to quit! Being in contact with your AP, which working in the same place means you ARE in contact whether you "try" to avoid him or not, means the affair isn't over. Ending your affair means going no contact whatsoever or keeping yourself in a position to be able to see him and be in contact. You do this for your husband and your marriage and to help start rebuilding his trust in you.

No one wants you to be dependant on your husband. No one is saying you need to leave the work force. Infact it's the exact opposite. If your husband divorces you and you're not working he's gonna have to pay you more alimony and no one here wants that for your poor husband. You don't just quit your job and go lay on the couch and watch soaps for the rest of your days. You quit your job and find one somewhere else asap. This really isn't all that difficult to understand. 

Please click that link I posted and read up on what every wayward spouse needs to know. You desperately need to take in and absorb what it's telling you, and also learn what your husband is going through and feeling.


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## Arkansas

my ex didn't want to quit anything - I know the reason now was she was using me to support her, but her plan was eventually to leave me and she wasn't quitting her affair either, she wanted to keep that option open in case I got strong enough to leave the abuse 

that doesn't mean every cheater thinks that way - but


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## SRCSRC

PR doesn't need to quit her job today or tomorrow. She will continue to work at home this year and into next. The issue must be dealt with eventually, but the more pressing concern is that it doesn't seem that she has committed herself to no contact with the AP forever. Unless something has changed or she has not informed us clearly, she has not done a no-contact email/letter to the AP. All we know is that she has no intention of talking to the AP. Very weak and certainly insufficient to begin reconciliation. Does she still consider the AP a friend on some level? Does she think she can be friends with him one day? Is she willing to go no-contact with the AP forever and state it in writing? What are her present feelings toward the AP? Is it disgust? Anger? Disappointment? Indifference? She seems to hint at indifference but it is hard to tell given her guarded responses. Does she miss him on some level? She simply refuses to give any significant information regarding her thoughts on the matter. I wonder if she has been more candid with her husband? But, any way you slice it, she must go completely no-contact with the AP forever and make it absolutely clear to everyone involved. I don't think she has done that. I suspect that the betrayed husband will eventually agree to rug sweep this whole mess. I hope he does not agree to see an MC. More likely than not, he will be partially blamed for the affair. That is what happened to me. Totally unjustified. These people facilitate rug sweeping.


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## Asterix

Is it just me that's feeling like I'm talking to a wall here?


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## krazykrater

When PR says "revenge", she means her husband having sex with someone else right? If that's the case isn't it insanely hypocritical for her to leave under those circumstances? I haven't been on this thread for a week but I think I recall PR saying she was her husband's one and only. IMO I think the husband should get a hallpass or a break from the marriage. Not to punish PR but so that he can really consider his relationship and so that he has the chance to vent some of the resentment he holds.


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## Asterix

krazykrater said:


> When PR says "revenge", she means her husband having sex with someone else right? If that's the case isn't it insanely hypocritical for her to leave under those circumstances? I haven't been on this thread for a week but I think I recall PR saying she was her husband's one and only. IMO I think the husband should get a hallpass or a break from the marriage. Not to punish PR but so that he can really consider his relationship and so that he has the chance to vent some of the resentment he holds.


A hallpass won't be the same. If he exercises his choice to use the hallpass and sleeps with women, that would still not be quite the same as her having a long affair without his knowledge. Of course it won't make him whole either.


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## karmagoround

PurpleRoses said:


> I never said it would be unreasonable. In fact, I said that it would be completely reasonable. But read whatever you like.


Hi purple roses, I'm not sure why you respond to the hyperbole. You said earlier that you could recognize phrases intended to hurt. The thoughts are useful in understanding how hurt men think though, so be ready with words of affirmation when you hear some of these from your husband. 

What do you do when you get random abrasion from him? What happened to me, I would get triggered and say things I didn't mean. For example, I once told my ww that I didn't trust her any further that I could throw the 18 wheeler that was parked across the way. I said it just to hurt her, I didn't really think that. She was being great, knew I was hurt, diffused my pain best she could, and we went on to have fun for the day. 

I think it would help to have some good ideas in mind for when he triggers. Words, mantras, prayers, affection. Your probably already doing that. I know it's hard to smile in a tough moment, but your smile might be the best thing. Better than a frown. That's why you want to be prepared to help guide his thoughts to the light.

A wayword here once wrote that her husband got angry after they had sex. She asked him. "What's wrong?" That might not be a good question to ask. It would hurt too much to answer that question, but like you have been saying, there are good ways to communicate without words, and you write that he's receiving adequate affection. That's going to go a long way in helping him heal. 

But be ready so you can quickly find your higher self when he needs that. If he says something mean, it might be the pain coming out. You should let him know, that it hurts you that he sees you that way, that you intend to continue to prove that you are the best wife for him, that you well be happy together. Whatever the best where are. 

Maybe that's one of the reasons why you are here, to get some ideas of things to say that might help. 

I'm sorry that you and yours are suffering this. That it could have been avoided makes the tragedy seem worse. Hang in there PR! I'm rooting (and praying) for you! 




Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## karmagoround

PurpleRoses said:


> I haven't talked about moving forward, it's not fair to put that sort of pressure on him. One thing at a time and this one thing is probably going to take a lot of time. He doesn't even like me hinting that he can have a bit of space if he needs it, he thinks that means I don't want to be around him.
> 
> As for what I am willing to live with? A lot of that stuff is trivial to me. If he wants to read my emails, he can read them, I'm sure he'd just get more bored than anything else. I can understand that our trust has been broken, but it won't be rebuilt on surveillance. If that made him feel better in the short term, I can't imagine him wanting to live like that for very long. Either way, I doubt he thinks I'm dumb enough to leave a trail of emails anyways. He can go through my phone if he wants too, but if he doesn't trust me, then finding nothing will just make him more suspicious. I don't know how to rebuild trust, I can only take it one day at a time. I want to see a therapist with him to help find solutions which can offer some solice.
> 
> As for what I'm willing to live with? I'm willing to live through a lot, if that means some bad times, then they are bad times we will have together, as long as he loves me and feels affection for me. If we wants revenge then this isn't going to work. You can't have revenge on someone you love; it's never enough and it's always empty in the end. It's never going to be even and fair here. If he feels like the only way to appease him is to give up things that I love and make me who I am, then he would have no affection left for me. He would have every right to that emotion, it would be my fault, I would be extremely sad, but I would accept that I messed things up beyond repair. This whole quit your job thing just has this tone that it's some sort of sacrifice to offer up as a price to pay......only pay to who? We didn't even have jobs when we met in college. Our accomplishments are ours together and we both take a sense of pride in what we have and what we build together. Some make it sound like married people are complete strangers who just meet in bed every night. I'm working from home now, the building isn't even going to be open next year. I didn't just run into him at work, I asked him to come in, he would have never been there if I didn't and he's not going to keep going if I'm not. The entire quit your job thing is a complete non-issue. The only purpose it could serve is vindictive and that is a path I am not willing to go down. I am sure anyone who has tried revenge is divorced by now. You can't keep someone by taking things away, they will just resent you and it doesn't matter how justified you feel you are in it. Forgiveness is about putting that aside and it is a lot to ask, I get that and that's why I have not asked him to say those words.
> 
> What can I do right now? He wants me to be more sexually available and I am going to be that. That's a start and it is something. I'm going to check in when I'm out without having to be asked. I will try to be more honest and patient. I don't expect perfection, but maybe something positive will come out of this.


Hey purple, You write that you have not talked about moving forward. Yet you are moving forward, every day. You aren't talking about ending it, he's not talking about ending it. So you are moving forward. I read that you are working to make the present moments as pleasant as possible, and keeping her hopes up for the future. 

You say that you well put up with alot. With that, you might be years going down the road with him. Hopefully it won't be too bad, but like you wrote, if it's bad... No sense in going down that road too far. 

From what you wrote, with the actions you are taking in doing what you can to make it better, I think you guys are going to be okay. Maybe great, later on. 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## TriX

Going purely by what you have posted so far, it looks like you are showing guilt, and not remorse.

So far, your posts have been to protect yourself, not on how to heal your husband, You had posted that you should stop controlling/manipulating, but you don't. You want control of what is happening to protect yourself. You are still thinking about yourself if you quit your job, or a full NC with your boyfriend.

If you were remorseful, quitting your job would be a no-brainer, as you would realise that it can trigger your husband, as it still keeps you in contact with your boyfriend. If you can get your head out of your arse and start thinking about your husband instead of yourself, you would have been applying for jobs elsewhere straightaway.

Instead, you defend your position to stay beacuse you want to protect yourself, not because it will help your husband.

If you were remorseful, you would being doing a lot more than what you seem to have posted. IC, quit job, NC letter, 100% transparency, full accountability any and all the time (it will be up to your abuse victim to decide what is too much or not enough).

Perhaps it is your writing style, but it comes across as self-absorbed. Virtually everything is about protecting you, and not opening up about how to help your husband. Until you can truly give up controlling/manipulating to protect yourself, and start thinking about how to protect your husband, your future as a couple is very bleak.


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## Casual Observer

@PurpleRoses - How is your husband doing? Again, the best thing “we” can offer you is a glimpse into what and why on his part. You don’t have to think about it do anything g people here suggest, but you should take advantage of a glimpse into what your husband is experiencing.

It’s way too easy to dismiss people here as “projecting” instead of seeing their experiences having great value because it shows how they were affected.

For working on yourself, again, I would suggest spending time and asking questions in @Cici1990’s thread.


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## PurpleRoses

Casual Observer said:


> @PurpleRoses - How is your husband doing? Again, the best thing “we” can offer you is a glimpse into what and why on his part. You don’t have to think about it do anything g people here suggest, but you should take advantage of a glimpse into what your husband is experiencing.
> 
> It’s way too easy to dismiss people here as “projecting” instead of seeing their experiences having great value because it shows how they were affected.
> 
> For working on yourself, again, I would suggest spending time and asking questions in @Cici1990’s thread.


It's been a busy week, our anniversary was on Wednesday, we had the get together, and it was nice really. Nothing fancy or over the top, my parents took the kids after, I was worried but no breakdowns. He isn't doing great but he isn't moping either. He says he still loves me, but also says there are things he's never going to get over. One day at time is all we can really do. He's with his friends tonight, so I hope he's having a good time.


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## SRCSRC

Sounds like the two of you are well on the way to rug sweeping this affair. I say this because it sounds like you have done very little to make yourself a safe partner. But if your husband is on board with it, who am I to say that is the wrong approach. If you stay true to him, I suppose it will work. Time will tell. Good luck to you and your family.


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## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> It's been a busy week, our anniversary was on Wednesday, we had the get together, and it was nice really. Nothing fancy or over the top, my parents took the kids after, I was worried but no breakdowns. He isn't doing great but he isn't moping either. He says he still loves me, but also says there are things he's never going to get over. One day at time is all we can really do. He's with his friends tonight, so I hope he's having a good time.


Have you gone anywhere with the “no contact” issue? That’s the one thing here that’s pretty universally agreed as a requirement for getting through this. It should be in writing and should include the reasons it’s needed. No, it doesn’t have to state that you’re going to quit working where AP works but it is important to state that if contact with AP is unavoidable, you will find work elsewhere.

Nothing vindictive here!!!! This is showing you a way forward and it allows you to take some of the load away from your husband. Look at it this. He’s wandering around wondering what is he supposed to do. If he sees you being active in the reconciliation, it’s not all on his shoulders. He deserves that. It’s not punishment for you.


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## Casual Observer

SRCSRC said:


> Sounds like the two of you are well on the way to rug sweeping this affair. I say this because it sounds like you have done very little to make yourself a safe partner. But if your husband is on board with it, who am I to say that is the wrong approach. If you stay true to him, I suppose it will work. Time will tell. Good luck to you and your family.


I think it’s way too early for such assumptions. She’s going through a roller coaster of emotions too. Who she is today may not be who she was a few weeks ago and not who she’ll be next month. We don’t know yet.

Some probably thought she wouldn’t be back. But she is. She knew what she’d be facing when she did resurface. There is hope.


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## PurpleRoses

Casual Observer said:


> Have you gone anywhere with the “no contact” issue? That’s the one thing here that’s pretty universally agreed as a requirement for getting through this. It should be in writing and should include the reasons it’s needed. No, it doesn’t have to state that you’re going to quit working where AP works but it is important to state that if contact with AP is unavoidable, you will find work elsewhere.
> 
> Nothing vindictive here!!!! This is showing you a way forward and it allows you to take some of the load away from your husband. Look at it this. He’s wandering around wondering what is he supposed to do. If he sees you being active in the reconciliation, it’s not all on his shoulders. He deserves that. It’s not punishment for you.


There isn't any contact, the only time I've talked to him in over a month was to make sure he wasn't coming to the party, which he had no intention of coming to anyways. Making a display over it wouldn't change that I'm not talking to him or seeing him. We would never interact for any work either of us do, we don't even work for the same branch. His building is connected to mine by an annex, but really it's pretty easy to avoid contact even if I were at the building, his keycard wouldn't even get into my area.


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## SRCSRC

Casual Observer said:


> I think it’s way too early for such assumptions. She’s going through a roller coaster of emotions too. Who she is today may not be who she was a few weeks ago and not who she’ll be next month. We don’t know yet.
> 
> Some probably thought she wouldn’t be back. But she is. She knew what she’d be facing when she did resurface. There is hope.


Really? Well, maybe she has done all sorts of things that we don't know about. She doesn't seem to want to share her efforts with us. We know that her husband is in pain, but still loves her and is staying. She seems to refuse to do anything more concrete than stopping the affair and curtail communication with the AP...for now. That's about it. Sounds like a rug sweep in the making. But, in all honesty, it may work if she never cheats again. Her husband will just have to swallow it like all of us had to do who stayed after our spouses cheated. I rug swept, but my ex-wife cheated again. But for the rug sweep, facilitated by our MC, I would have saved myself six more crappy years with her. 
PR seems more contrite than my ex-wife. Like I said, maybe it will work. I don't think it is that uncommon.


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## SRCSRC

PR: Good luck to you and your husband. I wish you and your family the best.


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## PurpleRoses

SRCSRC said:


> Really? Well, maybe she has done all sorts of things that we don't know about. She doesn't seem to want to share her efforts with us. We know that her husband is in pain, but still loves her and is staying. She seems to refuse to do anything more concrete than stopping the affair and curtail communication with the AP...for now. That's about it. Sounds like a rug sweep in the making. But, in all honesty, it may work if she never cheats again. Her husband will just have to swallow it like all of us had to do who stayed after our spouses cheated. I rug swept, but my ex-wife cheated again. But for the rug sweep, facilitated by our MC, I would have saved myself six more crappy years with her.
> PR seems more contrite than my ex-wife. Like I said, maybe it will work. I don't think it is that uncommon.


What did the therapist say? I'm sorry that happened like that to you. People are capable of awful things, I'm sure that's hollow coming from someone who knows it first hand, but I feel for everyone whose been cheated on. It really sucks.


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## NTA

Al_Bundy said:


> Don't ask for forgiveness and don't ask for a dime if he decides to divorce.


That's the way I feel. What does one get out of the words spoken to you, I forgive you? 

I would much rather keep you guessing.


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## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> There isn't any contact, the only time I've talked to him in over a month was to make sure he wasn't coming to the party, which he had no intention of coming to anyways. Making a display over it wouldn't change that I'm not talking to him or seeing him. We would never interact for any work either of us do, we don't even work for the same branch. His building is connected to mine by an annex, but really it's pretty easy to avoid contact even if I were at the building, his keycard wouldn't even get into my area.


Sigh. Re-read this part of what I wrote-


> This is showing you a way forward and it allows you to take some of the load away from your husband. Look at it this. He’s wandering around wondering what is he supposed to do. If he sees you being active in the reconciliation, it’s not all on his shoulders. He deserves that. It’s not punishment for you.


The no-contact isn't all about you. Right now, it's mostly about your husband. None of us can read your mind and know whether you'd cheat again, with your AP, if the opportunity allows. Even though some might sound like it. The no-contact stuff is, in your case, for your husband's benefit. And if you wish to reconcile, then it's for your own benefit as well.

And it's an absolute thing. It has to be. No contact with an AP, ever. That's as unanimous a thing as you'll find. And you'll just have to take the word of a lot of betrayed spouses, male and female, how importqnt it is to them. Both literally and as a signal of your future intentions.


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## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> It's been a busy week, our anniversary was on Wednesday, we had the get together, and it was nice really. Nothing fancy or over the top, my parents took the kids after, I was worried but no breakdowns. He isn't doing great but he isn't moping either. He says he still loves me, but also says there are things he's never going to get over. One day at time is all we can really do. He's with his friends tonight, so I hope he's having a good time.


Hope he has a lot of good times. Hope he comes to his senses.


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## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> It's been a busy week, our anniversary was on Wednesday, we had the get together, and it was nice really. Nothing fancy or over the top, my parents took the kids after, I was worried but no breakdowns. He isn't doing great but he isn't moping either. He says he still loves me, but also says there are things he's never going to get over. One day at time is all we can really do. He's with his friends tonight, so I hope he's having a good time.


Tell us more about the party. Why didn't you cancel? Was it his idea to just go forward with it? I worry how many years off his life that party might have taken. Your idea of it being "nice really"... well, remember how you felt when you first came here, and how sick to your stomach you were because you hadn't told your husband about the affair yet? Switch places. He might have felt that same way during the party, keeping face, trying to keep it together until he either figures out or has the strength to do what he has to do. Whatever that is.

The folk here who are non-stop on the rug-sweeping issue by your husband? I think this is where they get a lot of support for that. He probably thinks it was the man-up thing to do. Show strength. Keep on keeping on. Hold the family together and take blame because "the buck stops here." You might not even think of him as that type of guy. He might not shout to the world that that's the type of guy he is; it's just in his DNA. "Doing the right thing." 

The longer he goes without a real breakdown, an either temporary or lasting epiphany that says "How could you do this to our family, to me?" in an angry outburst, the more I fear for his well-being. He's bottling a lot of stuff inside. And he can't escape. When he's around the kids, he's thinking, this is my family, I have to hold it together for them. When he's with you, sharing intimate moments, he may be thinking about those intimate moments being one of the very few things that spouses are allowed to share only with each other. 

I agree with some others that marriage counseling, at this point, would be a very bad thing. Individual counseling first. And then perhaps a visit to a counseling specialist, this interesting sub-set of family/marriage counseling that lets you know what to expect if you choose to divorce. It's an eye-opening that can help with such decisions, moving couple either way. Much more reality based than marriage counseling.

It is really really tough for many of us to read your thread, because we are in fact projecting, we are reliving an experience we'd not wish on anybody. In my case it's not an affair but betrayal. The two are intensely related, and perhaps you should look at what went on more as a betrayal, because that goes beyond the physical. You can think about the physical having been stopped, won't happen again, whatever. But the wound caused by unexpected, unprepared for betrayal is up there in the PTSD category. Words can't fix it. Actions can't fix it. Time can't fix it. But some combination of all of the above may fix it.


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## EdDean

PurpleRoses said:


> It's been a busy week, our anniversary was on Wednesday, we had the get together, and it was nice really. Nothing fancy or over the top, my parents took the kids after, I was worried but no breakdowns. He isn't doing great but he isn't moping either. He says he still loves me, but also says there are things he's never going to get over. One day at time is all we can really do. He's with his friends tonight, so I hope he's having a good time.


I’m glad nothing bad happened at your party. You struggled a lot at the beginning about whether to even tell your husband or not; I respect that you did. I hope your husband finds peace. Good luck to you and your family.


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## PurpleRoses

He insisted that we were still doing it. I think it was really hard for him to organize it, he isn't the most social person and they are mostly my friends, the idea of calling it off was overwhelming to him. He wouldn't even consider it. It wasn't as stressful as I thought it was going to be. We still have a lot to celebrate and be thankful for over the past 20 years, that was the focus of the night. Call it rug sweeping if you want, but I think it was less stressful for him to go through with it than not. I can't really switch places, I could say I would have done this or that, but I don't really know. I probably have a shorter fuse and I wouldn't care who knew what he did, but he isn't like that, I don't see the point in stressing him out over that. He isn't bottling everything up, he just hasn't been abusive. He's having a really hard time with the other guy having seen me naked, amongst other things. I don't know what's going to happen, but I know I can't undo it. I had no idea how much of his own self worth he placed on me. I'm realizing it now and I don't know what to do about it. All the other stuff, like no contact or whatever is easy for me. I'll ask him if he needs me to write a letter or whatever, I don't know it seems like that's more contact than I even want with him. And why invite the drama? He still wants to have sex with me. I told him it was over and all the reasons, that I told my husband and he doesn't care. What do you say to that? I figure nothing is better than something. I could never put my family through this again. I know I need help and I'm going to see a therapist and hopefully find out exactly what's wrong with me. It should have never happened in the first place.


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## EdDean

The NC declaration to the AP is important for a lot of reasons but fundamentally it is a sign of respect to the betrayed spouse. Even if your husband doesn’t feel it’s necessary I’m sure he would appreciate the offer. It would help him heal. Also if I read your last post correctly you seem to say that the AP is still indicating somehow “he still wants to have sex with me”. If the AP has indicated anything like that then you REALLY need a formal NC communication. He’s been quiet lately but I bet he’ll be back to check on you and “see how you’re doing”. And again for the record, no one was ever suggesting you quit your job as a form of vengeance. It was just for your husband’s peace of mind. Good luck.


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## ABHale

PurpleRoses said:


> He insisted that we were still doing it. I think it was really hard for him to organize it, he isn't the most social person and they are mostly my friends, the idea of calling it off was overwhelming to him. He wouldn't even consider it. It wasn't as stressful as I thought it was going to be. We still have a lot to celebrate and be thankful for over the past 20 years, that was the focus of the night. Call it rug sweeping if you want, but I think it was less stressful for him to go through with it than not. I can't really switch places, I could say I would have done this or that, but I don't really know. I probably have a shorter fuse and I wouldn't care who knew what he did, but he isn't like that, I don't see the point in stressing him out over that. He isn't bottling everything up, he just hasn't been abusive. He's having a really hard time with the other guy having seen me naked, amongst other things. I don't know what's going to happen, but I know I can't undo it. I had no idea how much of his own self worth he placed on me. I'm realizing it now and I don't know what to do about it. All the other stuff, like no contact or whatever is easy for me. I'll ask him if he needs me to write a letter or whatever, I don't know it seems like that's more contact than I even want with him. And why invite the drama? He still wants to have sex with me. I told him it was over and all the reasons, that I told my husband and he doesn't care. What do you say to that? I figure nothing is better than something. I could never put my family through this again. I know I need help and I'm going to see a therapist and hopefully find out exactly what's wrong with me. It should have never happened in the first place.


It’s not like he could have canceled it if he wanted to. There would have to be the explanation of why.

The only reason he didn’t cancel was to keep his humiliation to what you brought on him already. He couldn’t keep you satisfied. Imagine if everyone at the party found out because your husband grew a set of balls and actually stood up for himself.

Or he is doing all the **** sandwich eating for the sake of the kids. You know, the ones you decided not to give a damn about and possibly destroy their home. Just for a new shiny toy. 

What was there to celebrate? Apparently not enough to keep you from going after and taking a lover.


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## SRCSRC

PurpleRoses said:


> What did the therapist say? I'm sorry that happened like that to you. People are capable of awful things, I'm sure that's hollow coming from someone who knows it first hand, but I feel for everyone whose been cheated on. It really sucks.


Without knowing much of the story regarding our marriage our MC automatically blamed me for 1/2 of my ex-wife's affair. After two weeks of finding out about the affair, the therapist chastised me for not getting over it. I was young and dumb in spite of my rather substantial education. She kept the marriage together and said point blank to me that my ex-wife would never cheat on me again. She might act out in other ways, but she will never cheat again. I believe she started cheating on me not too long after we left therapy. I finally caught her red-handed six years later. I don't feel it would be fair of me to indict all MCs, but I have read similar complaints from other betrayed spouses. That is why many recommend that the WS and the BS seek therapy separately with different ICs versed in infidelity.


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## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> I had no idea how much of his own self worth he placed on me. I'm realizing it now and I don't know what to do about it. All the other stuff, like no contact or whatever is easy for me. I'll ask him if he needs me to write a letter or whatever, I don't know it seems like that's more contact than I even want with him. And why invite the drama?


Now you’re beginning to get it. Many want to think it’s a cliche, the sacrifices one makes for family and spouse. In many cases it is, nothing more than self-gratitude for having to make “sacrifices.” But for some, like your husband, it’s not a sacrifice. It’s not something they’ve resented or thought about what might have been. Their self-worth is based on their spouse and family and any indication it’s not what it should be, could be, crashes down on them as a colossal failure.

He would never make demands of you, like a no-contact letter. He’d rather wonder what he did that it would ever be necessary. Don’t wait until he asks for one, because he won’t ask for one. He thinks _he_ has to fix things. That’s why you have to take the initiative. He cannot survive your relationship thinking like that. Because he will see his efforts fall short of the mark, which will reinforce his sense of inadequacy.

Being pro-active is how you deal with his loss of self esteem because he’s built his world around you. None of this says he’s a perfect or great guy, by the way. That’s not the point. He could be just an average guy with many failings but nevertheless built his life around you and family.


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## Davit Bek

PurpleRoses said:


> I could never put my family through this again. I know I need help and I'm going to see a therapist and hopefully find out exactly what's wrong with me. It should have never happened in the first place.


Feeling guilty for wanting to be someone else is a good place to start seeking therapy. Having gone through with the affair, has only to do with acting selfishly, with no respect towards your husband and marriage. There are many conscious big steps between wanting to see others, and actually doing it. Seeing a therapist won't help much with the latter.


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## Rus47

SRCSRC said:


> Really? Well, maybe she has done all sorts of things that we don't know about. She doesn't seem to want to share her efforts with us. We know that her husband is in pain, but still loves her and is staying. She seems to refuse to do anything more concrete than stopping the affair and curtail communication with the AP...for now. That's about it. Sounds like a rug sweep in the making. But, in all honesty, it may work if she never cheats again. Her husband will just have to swallow it like all of us had to do who stayed after our spouses cheated. I *rug swept, but my ex-wife cheated again. But for the rug sweep, facilitated by our MC, I would have saved myself six more crappy years with her.*
> PR seems more contrite than my ex-wife. Like I said, maybe it will work. I don't think it is that uncommon.


I think PR sounds a lot like your ex. Reading her post about her husband "not moping" and the anniversary going ok, she comes across cold as ice. Am not sure where you see "contrite" in any of her posts. Entitled is what I read. Her husband unfortunately is setting himself up for more crappy years.


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## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> He insisted that we were still doing it. I think it was really hard for him to organize it, he isn't the most social person and they are mostly my friends, the idea of calling it off was overwhelming to him. He wouldn't even consider it. It wasn't as stressful as I thought it was going to be. We still have a lot to celebrate and be thankful for over the past 20 years, that was the focus of the night. Call it rug sweeping if you want, but I think it was less stressful for him to go through with it than not.* I can't really switch places*, I could say I would have done this or that, but I don't really know. I probably have a shorter fuse and I wouldn't care who knew what he did, but he isn't like that, I don't see the point in stressing him out over that. He isn't bottling everything up, he just hasn't been abusive.* He's having a really hard time with the other guy having seen me naked, amongst other things.* I don't know what's going to happen, but I know I can't undo it. I had no idea how much of his own self worth he placed on me. I'm realizing it now and I don't know what to do about it. All the other stuff, like no contact or whatever is easy for me. I'll ask him if he needs me to write a letter or whatever, I don't know it seems like that's more contact than I even want with him. And why invite the drama? *He still wants to have sex with me. I told him it was over and all the reasons, that I told my husband and he doesn't care. *What do you say to that?* I figure nothing is better than something.* I could never put my family through this again. I know I need help and I'm going to see a therapist and hopefully find out exactly what's wrong with me. It should have never happened in the first place.


So after twenty years together you still can't really empathize with your husband, because you can't even imagine being treated like you treated him?

Do you think it unusual that your husband is having a really hard time with the mind movies of you naked with another man? Those thoughts would drive some men over the edge, and how can they ever go away?

Your boyfriend still wants sex with you and doesn't care who knows? So he will be pushing the envelope, and must not have any fear of your husband?

What do you mean "nothing is better than something"? Does this mean that you and your husband aren't intimate? You mentioned early about "bedroom" troubles, but never elaborated. Is your husband not providing for your sexual needs? Is that what prompted you seeking release elsewhere?


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## Mr.Married

Maybe she can ask her husband what he wants or doesn’t want in regards to the no contact/job/letter thing instead of everyone ramming it down her throat. She can ask him ... it’s that simple. As posters her on TAM we often think we are giving good advice but also often fit a “this method only” approach to every single thread. People and their situations are individual. I’m sure her husband is smart enough to indicate what he needs from her and she is smart enough to offer him the options.


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## VladDracul

PurpleRoses said:


> And why invite the drama? He still wants to have sex with me. I told him it was over and all the reasons, that I told my husband and he doesn't care. What do you say to that? I


This is the kind of thing you shouldn't minimize PR. It ain't what you say to that. Its what you do with that. The fact he stated "he doesn't care" speaks volumes. My take is this cat is way more infatuated with you than you realize. Some men don't take getting ditched lightly and can be a real problem and because of their own ego, may rationalize the only thing standing between you and him, is your husband. My ex-wife's cousin's husband is six feet under because a guy she was seeing during their "temporary" divorce decided her husband stood in the way of his happiness with her. My recommendation is to skip the no contact letter so not to agitate him even more and watch your back.
Affair partners are sometimes like reaching in a cage and grabbing a bobcat. They are easy to grab. The problem is turning them loose.


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## EdDean

VladDracul said:


> This is the kind of thing you shouldn't minimize PR. It ain't what you say to that. Its what you do with that. The fact he stated "he doesn't care" speaks volumes. My take is this cat is way more infatuated with you than you realize. Some men don't take getting ditched lightly and can be a real problem and because of their own ego, may rationalize the only thing standing between you and him, is your husband. My ex-wife's cousin's husband is six feet under because a guy she was seeing during their "temporary" divorce decided her husband stood in the way of his happiness with her. My recommendation is to skip the no contact letter so not to agitate him even more and watch your back.
> Affair partners are sometimes like reaching in a cage and grabbing a bobcat. They are easy to grab. The problem is turning them loose.


Wow. That’s a terrible story for that guy’s family. You just never know the depth of crazy out there or when people are going to snap. But you could use the same argument to say you should never reveal an A to the OBS because they might get dangerous. Most people would still feel strongly you should. It’s just a judgement call I guess.

I agree with you that the OM is probably more infatuated with her than she realizes. He’ll probably come scouting around again before too long. If he does she really needs to make a clear communication to back off. At the very least the next time her husband decides he wants to talk about him or the affair, she could make the offer and let him decide. Seems like the decent thing to do for him.


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## jsmart

PurpleRoses said:


> *He's having a really hard time with the other guy having seen me naked, *amongst other things.
> 
> *I had no idea how much of his own self worth he placed on me*. I'm realizing it now and I don't know what to do about it.
> 
> *He still wants to have sex with me. I told him it was over and all the reasons, that I told my husband and he doesn't care.* What do you say to that? I figure nothing is better than something. I could never put my family through this again.


It's not just that OM saw you naked, you gave yourself entirely to this man. He's thinking about the breast that nourished his babies being ravished, that he nutted into the womb that carried his babies. The mouth that kissed his children was invaded by this POS. You get the message right? So when he kisses you, he'll think about BJ. When you're having sex and moan or writhe in pleasure, he think about you doing the same with OM. He'll wonder if you did other acts as well.

He freaking told you he still wants to bang you and doesn't care if your husband knows? Wow, what a complete POS.
You actually stayed quiet at those remarks? Did that turn you on to hear that? You should have come to the defense of your husband and family. You know darn well that he was insulting your husband by making such a statement. Actually that kind of talk is denigrating to your family too. How would your kids feel if they knew this guy thought you would lower yourself so much as to continue having sex with him, after confessing to their father?

I suspect this guy may try again in a while. It's easy to say, I won't go there again now but when he throws on the charm you don't know how you'll react. The number of affairs that restart after a short dormancy, is significant. We have so many threads, where the BH hears his wife, using the he kept begging me, as the reason the excuse for giving into their OM.


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## Divinely Favored

jsmart said:


> It's not just that OM saw you naked, you gave yourself entirely to this man. He's thinking about the breast that nourished his babies being ravished, that he nutted into the womb that carried his babies. The mouth that kissed his children was invaded by this POS. You get the message right? So when he kisses you, he'll think about BJ. When you're having sex and moan or writhe in pleasure, he think about you doing the same with OM. He'll wonder if you did other acts as well.


To me it is knowing the intence emotional bond i had with my wife when she was carrying my children. 

Knowing sex can lead to pregnancy, in my mind if my wife cheates...it is forced in my mind she wants to have that deep emotional connection with another man than me and wants to carry and give him children. 

I could never get past that. I would feed my hurt and rage with phosphorus to burn out any love i had for her. 

I used to be co-dependant like PR hubby. My identity was based on our relationship and how i felt loved by my wife. I got to a breaking point years back, hurt like hell! Nothing even associated with adultry. But things changed....i know i am the catch and could easily get a hot young thing. I see girls 25 or more years younger locked gaze and sly smile at me as i walk by. I still love my wife deeply but it is no longer the basis for the way i see myself.


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## VladDracul

Divinely Favored said:


> Knowing sex can lead to pregnancy, in my mind if my wife cheates...it is forced in my mind she wants to have that deep emotional connection with another man than me and wants to carry and give him children.


My experience through the years from dealing with many women is one that many men reject due to ego I guess. When a woman cheats she lost significant romantic interest in her SO much much earlier and has the opportunity (low risk of detection), has entertained the failure of their SO to meet certain unmet, and nagging needs/desires to the point of pressure, and belief these "needs" cannot or will not be timely met by their SO. The first time at bat, nobody expects to be caught or feel guilty.
BTW, a man that feels his wife is better than him, puts her on a pedestal because he feels he's lower grade than her, is already setting himself up for a fall. Chicks want a husband, (well most, the rest can take a hike) not a groupie.
Don't believe what I'm saying? Ask them and tell me where I'm wrong.


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## Casual Observer

Mr.Married said:


> Maybe she can ask her husband what he wants or doesn’t want in regards to the no contact/job/letter thing instead of everyone ramming it down her throat. She can ask him ... it’s that simple. As posters her on TAM we often think we are giving good advice but also often fit a “this method only” approach to every single thread. People and their situations are individual. I’m sure her husband is smart enough to indicate what he needs from her and she is smart enough to offer him the options.


One of the main points many here are trying to make is that, in some cases, asking what he needs and wants doesn’t work. Pride gets in the way, causing unrecognized/unintentional rug sweeping. She’s said enough to make it clear he’s keeping things bottled up which allows her to avoid things that might be better off done.


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## Divinely Favored

VladDracul said:


> My experience through the years from dealing with many women is one that many men reject due to ego I guess. When a woman cheats she lost significant romantic interest in her SO much much earlier and has the opportunity (low risk of detection), has entertained the failure of their SO to meet certain unmet, and nagging needs/desires to the point of pressure, and belief these "needs" cannot or will not be timely met by their SO. The first time at bat, nobody expects to be caught or feel guilty.
> BTW, a man that feels his wife is better than him, puts her on a pedestal because he feels he's lower grade than her, is already setting himself up for a fall. Chicks want a husband, (well most, the rest can take a hike) not a groupie.
> Don't believe what I'm saying? Ask them and tell me where I'm wrong.


Yep...my wife was pushing me to stand up and be the man she knew was on the inside. During the tension and conflict she fell off that pedestal and our relationship was reevaluated. I stood up and became the leader and not a hubby that just says, "What ever you want Baby".

I take into account her wishes on tgings and my final decision stands. She is 1st officer but i am the Captain. Now she does not feel like she is making tge decisions and steering the ship, she does not have the stress of feeling like if we run aground it is all her fault. 

I still love her very much but i will be just fine without her if she left. She is beside me where i can guide and protect her and i would view any other male trying to interfear in my marriage as a mortal threat and will deal with one as i see fit. Have no problem with violence, weeds out those with low moral fiber. She is no longer on the pedestal above me all alone. Our marriage is even better the last 7 yrs that the 1st 7 yrs.

Got to have those females on your level where you can communicate, not placed above you where you can not talk and see them. 

A profound statement my wife and i use now with each other comes from 'Avatar'

"I See You" means to us i see your faults and i still choose to love you.


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## VladDracul

DF, some, mostly sissy men and many woman, I'll explain below, will call you misogynistic bully for saying the above. But your wife loves it, looks at you as an high level alpha dominate male. 
The chicks will perennially challenge a male that takes your role just to see if you have it in you to stand your ground. They can't help themselves. If you back down, you lose a little of her respect each time until she's eyeballing another male. I've seen this play out so many times it ain't funny. Ain't no such thing as a woman with a puzzy whipped husband who ain't cheating, thinking about cheating, or wishing she'd married somebody who didn't ask how high when she said jump.


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## jjj858

Did OP let the husband know that this man still wants to have sex with her and is still making that known? I’d be super pissed if that was still happening and I wasn’t informed about it by my wife.


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## Casual Observer

jjj858 said:


> Did OP let the husband know that this man still wants to have sex with her and is still making that known? I’d be super pissed if that was still happening and I wasn’t informed about it by my wife.


I think you misinterpreted something she said. It wasn’t parsed well and the literal words were out of context with the overall description of events then and now.

Specifically, I believe it is incorrect that the other man has persisted in his attempts to continue the affair after she told her husband.


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## VladDracul

Sounds like Mr. PR is a little more laid back and reluctantly accepting of the affair than most guys. I think it would be a healthier reconciliation, with Mrs PR having a greater understanding of her new duties, post-affair, if he behaved more like a lion than a sheep that just got sheared. Of course we don't really know what he's doing, his plans or the interaction between the Mr and Mrs. in this story.


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## VladDracul

jjj858 said:


> Did OP let the husband know that this man still wants to have sex with her.


I don't think she had to let her husband know. Most men know what other men want keep doing to chicks they've laid with a few times.


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## PurpleRoses

VladDracul said:


> This is the kind of thing you shouldn't minimize PR. It ain't what you say to that. Its what you do with that. The fact he stated "he doesn't care" speaks volumes. My take is this cat is way more infatuated with you than you realize. Some men don't take getting ditched lightly and can be a real problem and because of their own ego, may rationalize the only thing standing between you and him, is your husband. My ex-wife's cousin's husband is six feet under because a guy she was seeing during their "temporary" divorce decided her husband stood in the way of his happiness with her. My recommendation is to skip the no contact letter so not to agitate him even more and watch your back.
> Affair partners are sometimes like reaching in a cage and grabbing a bobcat. They are easy to grab. The problem is turning them loose.


I don't take it lightly at all, I know how insulting such a letter would be and I don't see the point. I'm also not giving him something he could blackmail me with if he wanted to. I don't think he would, but why give him the option. Nothing about it turns me on, completely the opposite. I've already said I'm not attracted to him anymore and it's because of stuff like this. Why would anyone be turned on by that? He could try all he wants, it's over and I'm not going to persue that anymore. 

And I meant saying nothing to (I hate saying this but) my ex boyfriend. I have been intimate with my husband since all this. It was a bit strange the first time, but it will get better. And I never said that he wasn't providing my sexual needs as if he's paid by the hour, I said that we have had some issues in bed. They aren't new and they aren't one-sided. I didn't elaborate because they aren't the reason for the affair and if I said anything, then they certainly would taken that way. I wasn't seeking release, I've already said why it happened. Sex got all wrapped up in it and did prolong it, but it wasn't the reason it happened in the first place.


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## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't take it lightly at all, I know how insulting such a letter would be and I don't see the point. I'm also not giving him something he could blackmail me with if he wanted to. I don't think he would, but why give him the option. Nothing about it turns me on, completely the opposite. I've already said I'm not attracted to him anymore and it's because of stuff like this. Why would anyone be turned on by that? He could try all he wants, it's over and I'm not going to persue that anymore.
> 
> And I meant saying nothing to (I hate saying this but) my ex boyfriend. I have been intimate with my husband since all this. It was a bit strange the first time, but it will get better. And I never said that he wasn't providing my sexual needs as if he's paid by the hour, I said that we have had some issues in bed. They aren't new and they aren't one-sided. I didn't elaborate because they aren't the reason for the affair and if I said anything, then they certainly would taken that way. I wasn't seeking release, I've already said why it happened. Sex got all wrapped up in it and did prolong it, but it wasn't the reason it happened in the first place.


Sounds like everything is going your way then. Sounds like your husband is swallowing the whole sandwich and you didnt even need to ask for the forgiveness you were worried about. Its his problem not yours. Interesting how quickly you dumped your boyfriend. Hope he stays dumped.


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## EdDean

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't take it lightly at all, I know how insulting such a letter would be and I don't see the point. I'm also not giving him something he could blackmail me with if he wanted to. I don't think he would, but why give him the option.


That’s a good point. I guess if you feel like you’ve said everything you need to say to him then so be it. If he ever does come back around though I would be honest with your husband about it. Even if the only thing you say is to get lost; I would tell him. If he found out later it would be a big trigger to him.


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## Willnotbill

Rus47 said:


> Sounds like everything is going your way then. Sounds like your husband is swallowing the whole sandwich and you didnt even need to ask for the forgiveness you were worried about. Its his problem not yours. Interesting how quickly you dumped your boyfriend. Hope he stays dumped.


I've questioned some of the responses we've seen from PR but none of us are in their lives and know what the atmosphere in the home is like. I'm sure both of them are dealing with her affair every minute of every day. We have no idea what's going through the husbands head or really how he'd doing. We have one side of the story. PR may not know the extent of all his feeling. Most of have an idea because we've lived that before but people deal with these things differently. If the husband can get through it better by rug sweeping or whatever he is doing then more power to him. We know how bad this feels and whatever way works for him that he can accept then that is his choice.


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## Rus47

EdDean said:


> That’s a good point. I guess if you feel like you’ve said everything you need to say to him then so be it. If he ever does come back around though I would be honest with your husband about it. Even if the only thing you say is to get lost; I would tell him. *If he found out later it would be a big trigger to him.*


Doesn't actually sound like anything is a "trigger" for the BH, he has accepted the whole enchilada without a whimper, told PR he still loved her. Hell, he even insisted on having the 20 year anniversary "party". So doubt PR has any worries if BF comes around, or about anything else either. The karma bus took a different route.


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## Rus47

.


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## jjj858

So sex for the first time after the affair with the husband was weird? It’s weird to think that being with your SO would ever feel weird. Is it because you disconnected from him entirely during the affair and he feels like a stranger to you now? Were the “bedroom issues” a factor in seeking another man? Just curious if from the husbands perspective he’d be one of the ones like some posters here (myself included) to say “my wife won’t let me do X and Y in bed anymore” but then the wife does everything with the AP.


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## OddOne

Rus47 said:


> Sounds like your husband is swallowing the whole sandwich and you didnt even need to ask for the forgiveness you were worried about. Its his problem not yours.


Pretty much. She can probably get away with it again. Even have a multi-year affair, if it suits her. I'm not saying she will, but she knows it's most likely true that she can do pretty much as she pleases. As soon as she figures out how to compartmentalize her guilt, it's mostly smooth sailing.


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## jsmart

PurpleRoses said:


> (I hate saying this but) my ex boyfriend. I have been intimate with my husband since all this. *It was a bit strange the first time, but it will get better. *And I never said that he wasn't providing my sexual needs as if he's paid by the hour, I said that we have had some issues in bed. They aren't new and they aren't one-sided. I didn't elaborate because they aren't the reason for the affair and if I said anything, then they certainly would taken that way. I wasn't seeking release, I've already said why it happened. Sex got all wrapped up in it and did prolong it, but it wasn't the reason it happened in the first place.


Did you stop having sex with your husband while having the affair? Was it a strange feeling because it was the first time you’d had sex with your husband since confessing or was it strange because you started having sex with your husband again after cutting him off during the affair? If you did have sex with your husband during the affair, did it get cut way back? Also did you feel like you were cheating on your new man when you had sex with your husband? 

Do not keep the fact that this POS boldly told you he still wants to have sex even after you told him that your husband knows everything. This POS , who knows your husband and that you’re a mother , doesn’t give 2 sh!ts about your family. You gave this dude the power to take a dump on your family. Luckily for you, your husband hasn’t made you confess and apologize to your nearly adult children. It would tear your heart to see the hurt in their eyes if they knew what you did to their father. Btw, you were asked but you never answers, did you have sex with POS in your home?


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## HappilyMarried1

Hey @PurpleRoses I thought you were really sorry with what you had done. The more you post it is starting to sound like instead of asking for forgiveness you should just ask for an "open marriage". I also think by some of your post you are probably going to cheat again down the road with the same guy or someone else or just start back up stay married and have this guy or another guy on the side.


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## VladDracul

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't take it lightly at all, I know how insulting such a letter would be and I don't see the point. I'm also not giving him something he could blackmail me with if he wanted to. I don't think he would, but why give him the option.


Just watch your back PR. I obviously don't know this cat but I've seen plenty of men deal with rejection. Some don't deal with it well. If he contacts you again, you likely have a problem.



PurpleRoses said:


> I don't take it lightly at all, I know how insulting such a letter would be and I don't see the point. I'm also not giving him something he could blackmail me with if he wanted to.


As an alternative, you may try writing your old man a letter telling him you swear there will be no contact with this cat. If, by chance this guy approaches you, you will tell your husband. It will be a written unilateral agreement by you to your husband. I like this better than a no contact letter to the paramour.


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## NTA

re16 said:


> Then you need to tell him.
> 
> Be sure you don't call this a "mistake" because it wasn't. It was a serious of decisions that led to this happening. Tell the truth and release your guilt. It may come out whether you tell him or not, so you'll be living in prolonged fear of it coming out if you try to hide it.


yeah, "mistake" has the sense this was at one time thought to be a good idea. When has adultery eve been a good idea?


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## Rus47

jsmart said:


> Did you stop having sex with your husband while having the affair? *Was it a strange feeling because it was the first time you’d had sex with your husband since confessing or was it strange because you started having sex with your husband again after cutting him off during the affair?* If you did have sex with your husband during the affair, did it get cut way back? Also did you feel like you were cheating on your new man when you had sex with your husband?
> 
> Do not keep the fact that this POS boldly told you he still wants to have sex even after you told him that your husband knows everything. This POS , who knows your husband and that you’re a mother , doesn’t give 2 sh!ts about your family. You gave this dude the power to take a dump on your family. L*uckily for you, your husband hasn’t made you confess and apologize to your nearly adult children*. It would tear your heart to see the hurt in their eyes if they knew what you did to their father. Btw, you were asked but you never answers, did you have sex with POS in your home?


I would think BH found having sex with PR strange, thinking about where the BF's hands, mouth, and penis had been. All the things that PR did with/for BF. Wondering if BF is bigger and more skilled. Wondering if PR enjoyed it more with BF. Personally, if my wife ever got with another, would NEVER touch her again. She would have made her choice and it wasn't me. But, that is just me. 

BH isn't going to make PR confess and apologize to their kids for the same reason he carried on with the charade of the anniversary party. He feels emasculated, and wants as few as possible to know that PR emasculated him. He made PR tell BF to not attend. A lot of men would have had words and more with the BF. Maybe BH is afraid of BF.


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## Divinely Favored

VladDracul said:


> DF, some, mostly sissy men and many woman, I'll explain below, will call you misogynistic bully for saying the above. But your wife loves it, looks at you as an high level alpha dominate male.
> The chicks will perennially challenge a male that takes your role just to see if you have it in you to stand your ground. They can't help themselves. If you back down, you lose a little of her respect each time until she's eyeballing another male. I've seen this play out so many times it ain't funny. Ain't no such thing as a woman with a puzzy whipped husband who ain't cheating, thinking about cheating, or wishing she'd married somebody who didn't ask how high when she said jump.


Yeah she has **** tested me a few times in the past. I smack that down and she protests a bit as i see her walk away with a smile.
Biggest thing is making a decision and not deferring to her all the time. Makes them feel like you are another of her kids.


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## jjj858

Rus47 said:


> I would think BH found having sex with PR strange, thinking about where the BF's hands, mouth, and penis had been. All the things that PR did with/for BF. Wondering if BF is bigger and more skilled. Wondering if PR enjoyed it more with BF. Personally, if my wife ever got with another, would NEVER touch her again. She would have made her choice and it wasn't me. But, that is just me.
> 
> BH isn't going to make PR confess and apologize to their kids for the same reason he carried on with the charade of the anniversary party. He feels emasculated, and wants as few as possible to know that PR emasculated him. He made PR tell BF to not attend. A lot of men would have had words and more with the BF. Maybe BH is afraid of BF.


Agree with all of this. I’d be thinking all the same things and wouldn’t be able to touch my wife ever again if she cheated. And I’d definitely have “more than words” with the OM. You’re gonna play a part in ruining my life and family and uprooting my life’s stability? Ok well there’s gonna be a price to pay for that.


----------



## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't take it lightly at all, I know how insulting such a letter would be and I don't see the point. I'm also not giving him something he could blackmail me with if he wanted to. I don't think he would, but why give him the option. Nothing about it turns me on, completely the opposite. I've already said I'm not attracted to him anymore and it's because of stuff like this. Why would anyone be turned on by that? He could try all he wants, it's over and I'm not going to persue that anymore.
> 
> And I meant saying nothing to (I hate saying this but) my ex boyfriend. I have been intimate with my husband since all this. It was a bit strange the first time, but it will get better. And I never said that he wasn't providing my sexual needs as if he's paid by the hour, I said that we have had some issues in bed. They aren't new and they aren't one-sided. I didn't elaborate because they aren't the reason for the affair and if I said anything, then they certainly would taken that way. I wasn't seeking release, I've already said why it happened. Sex got all wrapped up in it and did prolong it, but it wasn't the reason it happened in the first place.


You know how insulting such a letter would be... this is in reference to your affair partner, or your husband? This is where your posts sometimes lead to incorrect assumptions. Looking for context, the next sentence still doesn't help, because one could make a case for either your AP or husband blackmailing you. 

There's also a certain weirdness referring to an AP as an "ex boyfriend." That's not typical here. AP's are rarely referred to as "boyfriends" and perhaps there's a strong distinction. Or a distinction without meaning. I think the "boyfriend" thing conjures up images of vetting someone and dating.

And there are those pesky unanswered questions. Were you having sex with both AP and your husband within a day or days of each other? What about risk of pregnancy? How did you cut things off? Did AP try to continue the affair? Did AP ever express the idea that you could be happier with him and leave your family, or was it all about the sex (for him)?


----------



## jjj858

Her answers have been pretty vague as far as details, but it sounds like there wasn’t much sex happening between her and her husband to begin with given that she mentioned problems in the bedroom. It definitely seems like we’ve gotten a sanitized account of what happened between her and the OM though. I’m sure the husband received a similarly sanitized and redacted version of the events too.


----------



## Willnotbill

If I was the husband I would contact the other man myself and not leave it up to the wife. I would tell him, "You can have her. If she'll cheat with you, she'll cheat on you. Good Luck!"


----------



## Rus47

Willnotbill said:


> If I was the husband I would contact the other man myself and not leave it up to the wife. I would tell him, "You can have her. If she'll cheat with you, she'll cheat on you. Good Luck!"


My response would be identical to yours. Tell him "You are welcome to her."


----------



## Luckylucky

I think there are still a lot of people here not listening to PR. She’s not interested in the AP, and I agree that a no-contact letter repulses her and isn’t necessary.

I sense a few of you are almost wanting her to jump back into bed with her AP, despite her saying over and over she’s not going there. 
She’s doing everything her husband asks.

There’s a family at stake here, she’s doing ALL the right things.


----------



## Arkansas

PurpleRoses said:


> What did the therapist say? I'm sorry that happened like that to you. People are capable of awful things, I'm sure that's hollow coming from someone who knows it first hand, but I feel for everyone whose been cheated on. It really sucks.


you've been cheated on? 

I mean like you thought vows meant something, you have 100% honor and faith and trust in someone and they betrayed you and changed your entire outlook on what marriage/relationships are

you know that feeling?


----------



## Casual Observer

Luckylucky said:


> I think there are still a lot of people here not listening to PR. She’s not interested in the AP, and I agree that a no-contact letter repulses her and isn’t necessary.
> 
> I sense a few of you are almost wanting her to jump back into bed with her AP, despite her saying over and over she’s not going there.
> She’s doing everything her husband asks.
> 
> There’s a family at stake here, she’s doing ALL the right things.


Again, and again, the no contact letter is largely for the benefit of the betrayed spouse, who has never been in this situation before and may be cycling through an array of expressed and unexpressed feelings. That the idea of it “repulses” the wayward spouse may be an indication of the wayward spouse not really being open to understanding the damage done. It comes across as defensive at a time when the better response might be “Ok, my husband’s really messed up and keeping things to himself (which she’s said); how would this help?”


----------



## Luckylucky

Casual Observer said:


> Again, and again, the no contact letter is largely for the benefit of the betrayed spouse, who has never been in this situation before and may be cycling through an array of expressed and unexpressed feelings. That the idea of it “repulses” the wayward spouse may be an indication of the wayward spouse not really being open to understanding the damage done. It comes across as defensive at a time when the better response might be “Ok, my husband’s really messed up and keeping things to himself (which she’s said); how would this help?”


Yes but I take from all of her posts that the AP, the affair, her actions and everything, including herself, is repulsive to her.

And much of the focus and talk about her husband is really loving and caring.

If you notice some past posts, a person still in love writes paragraphs and paragraphs about the affair partner, how nice they were how kind they were how troubled they were, details about there lives and then one line ‘I really love my husband-wife’ thrown in for dramatic effect. In a professional setting, it’s noted who they talk more about. That gives a pretty good indication of where infatuation and loyalties lie.


----------



## LATERILUS79

PurpleRoses said:


> There isn't any contact, the only time I've talked to him in over a month was to make sure he wasn't coming to the party, which he had no intention of coming to anyways. Making a display over it wouldn't change that I'm not talking to him or seeing him. We would never interact for any work either of us do, we don't even work for the same branch. His building is connected to mine by an annex, but really it's pretty easy to avoid contact even if I were at the building, his keycard wouldn't even get into my area.





PurpleRoses said:


> I know I need help and I'm going to see a therapist and hopefully find out exactly what's wrong with me. It should have never happened in the first place.


PR,

Look at everything you wrote about how difficult it is for your AP to come into contact with you at work. 

You invited him to work during the lockdown. You don't work on the same stuff. You have no business working with him. You wore the sun dress to impress him. You went to his place and had a drink to "work". 

All these things together and you had the previous claim that you never intended for the affair to become physical. Look at all the hoops you jumped through to make sure it was on the path to become physical. You also made mention that the affair wasn't about the sex and that the sex prolonged it. 


Now you are talking about seeing a therapist to figure out what is wrong with you. 

You know, that is a good idea. I hope you are able to grow and understand things better with your therapist. 

Here would be a great start though: stop lying to yourself. Again - how many hoops did you jump through in order to sexually arouse the AP to kiss you and have sex with you? Come on. Tell the truth. Not for us but to yourself. You wanted this. The affair happened because you created the opportunity. You did it because you COULD and you wanted it. 

I bet it sucks to admit something like that yourself. I bet you don't want to feel what it feels like to know you did this for such simple reasons. I bet it hurts even more after seeing all the trouble your husband went through to celebrate such a wonderful 20 year marriage.... and he did all of that for his wife that didn't respect him. Not even a little bit when compared to how much love and respect he held for you. 

Regardless, it's gonna be tough to move forward until you can admit to yourself these fundamental things about yourself. Hopefully you'll realize this prior to therapy and can use therapy for more complicated issues such as trying to repair your marriage and becoming a safe partner for your husband.


----------



## Casual Observer

LATERILUS79 said:


> PR,
> 
> Look at everything you wrote about how difficult it is for your AP to come into contact with you at work.
> 
> You invited him to work during the lockdown. You don't work on the same stuff. You have no business working with him. You wore the sun dress to impress him. You went to his place and had a drink to "work".
> 
> All these things together and you had the previous claim that you never intended for the affair to become physical. Look at all the hoops you jumped through to make sure it was on the path to become physical. You also made mention that the affair wasn't about the sex and that the sex prolonged it.
> 
> 
> Now you are talking about seeing a therapist to figure out what is wrong with you.
> 
> You know, that is a good idea. I hope you are able to grow and understand things better with your therapist.
> 
> Here would be a great start though: stop lying to yourself. Again - how many hoops did you jump through in order to sexually arouse the AP to kiss you and have sex with you? Come on. Tell the truth. Not for us but to yourself. You wanted this. The affair happened because you created the opportunity. You did it because you COULD and you wanted it.
> 
> I bet it sucks to admit something like that yourself. I bet you don't want to feel what it feels like to know you did this for such simple reasons. I bet it hurts even more after seeing all the trouble your husband went through to celebrate such a wonderful 20 year marriage.... and he did all of that for his wife that didn't respect him. Not even a little bit when compared to how much love and respect he held for you.
> 
> Regardless, it's gonna be tough to move forward until you can admit to yourself these fundamental things about yourself. Hopefully you'll realize this prior to therapy and can use therapy for more complicated issues such as trying to repair your marriage and becoming a safe partner for your husband.


I doubt attacking OP quite so directly/harshly about lying (about her motivations and actions)is going to bring her back to the conversation. I think helping her to understand her husband’s reaction and hidden feelings and responses is the best opening available. She’s said he holds it inside, yet recognized how much of HIS self esteem is wrapped up in how things are with her.


----------



## VladDracul

Casual Observer said:


> Again, and again, the no contact letter is largely for the benefit of the betrayed spouse, who has never been in this situation before and may be cycling through an array of expressed and unexpressed feelings.


Personally, I think a NC letter lacks any real force. Mrs A could easily write a NC letter to her paramour as a ruse to please her husband with no plan actually break off the affair. Her affair partner could ignore the NC letter and still pursue Mrs A, oftentimes successfully. Hence, a NC letter is not going to kill post affair desire and the motive for seeking something outside the marriage. And the affair partner has a written statement that can possible be held over the WS's head.
I mentioned before an alternative and possibly a cleaner/better approach is a written statement to the betrayed promising the affair in over, no more shenanigans, an admission, an apology, and request for forgiveness. If there's later a breach, the betrayed knows where he/she really stands.


----------



## Blondilocks

The OP is the one who pursued the affair partner. Her writing a no-contact letter will come across as WTH to the guy and piss him off. Then he has something he can take to HR and claim sexual harassment or blackmail her. No contact works both ways. Her husband may view her getting in touch with the guy as an indication that she wants to reignite the affair.

If the guy does contact her, then it would be appropriate to write a letter. It's better to let sleeping dogs lie in this situation.


----------



## jjj858

Casual Observer said:


> I doubt attacking OP quite so directly/harshly about lying (about her motivations and actions)is going to bring her back to the conversation. I think helping her to understand her husband’s reaction and hidden feelings and responses is the best opening available. She’s said he holds it inside, yet recognized how much of HIS self esteem is wrapped up in how things are with her.


What lateralis wrote was 100% the truth though. She made every effort and accommodation to bed this guy. She clearly pursued him more than he pursued her. She made it easy by literally going into his apartment and domain, drinking, and then he took advantage of what was being offered to him.


----------



## Casual Observer

jjj858 said:


> What lateralis wrote was 100% the truth though. She made every effort and accommodation to bed this guy. She clearly pursued him more than he pursued her. She made it easy by literally going into his apartment and domain, drinking, and then he took advantage of what was being offered to him.


I agree, but that doesn't change that the best thing we can do for her is help her understand what her betrayed spouse is going through. It will take years for her to really understand what brought her to those actions, in a way that will help her move forward. There is no quick fix. There are no sudden epiphanies that will occur, at least none that will solve the problems she brought to the marriage.

But understanding her husband is something that can be addressed now, will help now, and at least allow her to understand better the choices she has ahead of her. Above all she needs to have a strong sense of empathy for her husband, but right now, she doesn't know what she needs to be empathetic for. Once she gets is, then they, as a couple, will discover if she actually has enough empathy to make things work, or if defensive mechanisms will rule the day.

She has a starting point. She wrote about how she didn't understand how much of her husband's self-esteem was wrapped up in her. She need to learn why that is, what it leads to. And what "lack of agency" means. I think discovering what those mean will help chart the course for her own recovery. How she reacts to learning about his self-esteem, his agency, will be telling.


----------



## PurpleRoses

I don't have any idea what you people collectively read here, but I was asked how it happened between two scenarios. I said that I didn't know if it fit either. That I had been to his place before without anything happening, so I didn't know that it would happen, but that I knew it had already turned inappropriate. Where anyone gets that I'm playing innocent here is beyond me. Then to make it clear, I said that yes, I was trying to look pretty for him and that I knew I was flirting. I guess that didn't register at all here? 

Ok, well, I knew when I was lying about how much we were texting and that it had turned inappropriate, when I started getting excited to see him. I knew it was not proper, is that clear enough? I just didn't know it would happen that day and it would have just remained inappropriate flirting if he didn't make a move. Is that hard to understand?

As for the sex, I can't talk about that here, I can tell that a lot of you are pretty squeamish and sensitive about anything of the sort and the triggers here are lighter than feathers. It was never my intention to trigger anyone, so that is best left and that.


----------



## jjj858

So you’re playing little miss innocent still. Ok. Yeah you went to his apartment a second time completely unaware that sex was going to happen. Sure. All I read in your last post is someone unwilling to take full responsibility for what they consciously and knowingly did.


----------



## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> As for the sex, I can't talk about that here, I can tell that a lot of you are pretty squeamish and sensitive about anything of the sort and the triggers here are lighter than feathers. It was never my intention to trigger anyone, so that is best left and that.


The "triggers" are perhaps the most-relevant contribution you can gain from TAM because you, so far, are relatively immune to them. Your husband is not. Your husband is experiencing, in real time, the beginning of new triggers in addition to triggers that have already occurred. Don't act concerned about causing issues for anyone on TAM. Every single person here has the ability to block or just not read any thread they wish. This is all about what you are willing to learn about your husband's experience, much of which is not the same or likely even similar to anything you've experienced yourself.

What would happen if you just turned this on its face. That it's not all about you. It's all about your husband. Pretend you're a good friend of his. What would he be telling that friend? What would his friend be telling him? What is your husband thinking about when he tries to sleep each night?


----------



## Rus47

Casual Observer said:


> The "triggers" are perhaps the most-relevant contribution you can gain from TAM because you, so far, are relatively immune to them. Your husband is not. Your husband is experiencing, in real time, the beginning of new triggers in addition to triggers that have already occurred. Don't act concerned about causing issues for anyone on TAM. Every single person here has the ability to block or just not read any thread they wish. This is all about what you are willing to learn about your husband's experience, much of which is not the same or likely even similar to anything you've experienced yourself.
> 
> What would happen if you just turned this on its face. That it's not all about you. It's all about your husband. Pretend you're a good friend of his. What would he be telling that friend? What would his friend be telling him? What is your husband thinking about when he tries to sleep each night?


Her original question in the title was answered. She isnt husbands friend and has told us his problems are for him to solve. The rest of her posts she adopts a rebellious stance to what others have posted. And she answers few questions.

Obvious she has a low opinion of most on here.


----------



## SRCSRC

PR: It's splitting hairs as to who made the first move to start your physical affair. Basically, through a series of bad choices, you allowed yourself to get involved with the AP romantically. You basically served it up to the AP the day you had your first physical encounter. He read the obvious signals and made his move. You didn't stop him because that is what you wanted. You continued for how long no one knows but finally stopped because you were racked with guilt. 

Now, what do you do at this point? An NC letter is important for several reasons. It makes it clear to the AP that he is to stay away from you FOREVER. It sounds like he still would like to carry on even if your husband knows. His jets must be totally shut down. In the letter, you must make it clear that (1) you love your husband and are disgusted with yourself for what you did. (2) That you want to save your marriage (3) While you are to blame for what happened, the AP willingly participated in the affair and was complicit in doing great harm to your husband, marriage, and family. (4) That he is to avoid you at all costs and that any further contact will be rebuffed, including the acquisition of a restraining order, if necessary. If you don't feel this way or are unwilling to end all the ambiguity that seems to encircle this mess, then there is a problem as to your willingness to commit to reconciliation. 

The letter shows your husband that you are totally on board with saving the marriage, that you have no intention of ever seeing the AP again, and most importantly, you have no feelings for the AP.

Concerning the AP: I hope by now you have developed some negative feelings toward that POS. While you did serve it up to him, he took advantage and willingly participated in an affair that would likely destroy your marriage. He knew your husband and probably knows your children. He is a spineless opportunist who should try and find a single partner rather than prey on married women. This should piss you off at some level. The fact he still wants to continue the affair shows you the depravity of this person. He has harmed your husband, your children, your marriage, and you. He is a dog and you should not have any warm feelings about this person. You have revealed nothing about your present feelings other than you no longer have romantic feelings toward him. That is not enough.

Finally, you state that several of your friends knew of the ongoing affair. I am deadly serious about this next point. If any of them encouraged or enabled you to cheat they must be removed from your life FOREVER. If they sat back and gave tacit approval, they must be removed from your life FOREVER. You needed someone to provide a reality check before you strayed too far. Evidently, none of them did it. They are enemies of your marriage and your husband. There is absolutely no way you should stay friends with these very likely jealous people. 

These are a couple of the things you must do to help your husband begin to heal. It is all about that right now. No one knows long-term how your husband will digest what has happened. He doesn't know. Unfortunately, he will never forget what happened. If he is like most of us who have been betrayed, his feelings for you will never be the same. He will constantly do a subconscious cost/benefit analysis regarding the marriage for years. I didn't make it past year six after my discovery. I played acted being a loving husband during that time. I just felt nothing. Mercifully, she ended it by cheating again. Not to say that your husband will feel the same, but that is my experience.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

OP, you come off as a cold hearted manipulative ***** who somehow developed a bit of conscience during your tryst. You should feel very fortunate your husband hasn't kicked you out and filed because, most would have done just that.


----------



## Arkansas

LATERILUS79 said:


> Here would be a great start though: stop lying to yourself. Again - how many hoops did you jump through in order to sexually arouse the AP to kiss you and have sex with you? Come on. Tell the truth. Not for us but to yourself. You wanted this. The affair happened because you created the opportunity. You did it because you COULD and you wanted it.


isn't that really the only reason people have affairs ?


----------



## Arkansas

Tested_by_stress said:


> OP, you come off as a cold hearted manipulative *** who somehow developed a bit of conscience during your tryst. You should feel very fortunate your husband hasn't kicked you out and filed because, most would have done just that.


I never thought I'd have stuck around .... but i did for 8 torturous months

PurpleRoses can look back and read my story if she wants to know how a husband feels - if PR's husband loved her like I loved my wife, he's absolutely devastated, and in fact .... PRoses husband has died in some ways because his reality has forever been changed on what he believes in ( trust, faith, honesty, vows etc )

He's trying to figure it out - as did I. He doesn't trust a word she says, he thinks about it every second of the day, losing weight, fighting irrational thoughts .... its horrible. PRoses did this to him - and he knows it, and he knows she isn't the woman he married but he is still trying to keep his promises, his vows, his trust .......... its a hella deal to live through.


----------



## Casual Observer

Arkansas said:


> I never thought I'd have stuck around .... but i did for 8 torturous months
> 
> PurpleRoses can look back and read my story if she wants to know how a husband feels - if PR's husband loved her like I loved my wife, he's absolutely devastated, and in fact .... PRoses husband has died in some ways because his reality has forever been changed on what he believes in ( trust, faith, honesty, vows etc )
> 
> He's trying to figure it out - as did I. He doesn't trust a word she says, he thinks about it every second of the day, losing weight, fighting irrational thoughts .... its horrible. PRoses did this to him - and he knows it, and he knows she isn't the woman he married but he is still trying to keep his promises, his vows, his trust .......... its a hella deal to live through.


You say it as if your feelings were a constant. Were they? You didn't go through times when you felt better about her, then worse? Times you thought she could pull through, you could remain a couple, and then others where the world just seemed to come crashing down around you? Asking for a friend.  

My point is that I don't think the betraying spouse understands that the betrayed spouse's feelings are likely a moving target. And when you're dealing with a moving target, you tend to place your focus on your best shot, blind to just how bad things really are. You look at the hopeful signs and think aha, things are good, we're going to make it, I don't have to do such hard work anymore! You don't feel responsible for the times your betrayed spouse is at their worst, thinking that's their issue, something they have to deal with.


----------



## Migi

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't have any idea what you people collectively read here, but I was asked how it happened between two scenarios. I said that I didn't know if it fit either. That I had been to his place before without anything happening, so I didn't know that it would happen, but that I knew it had already turned inappropriate. Where anyone gets that I'm playing innocent here is beyond me. Then to make it clear, I said that yes, I was trying to look pretty for him and that I knew I was flirting. I guess that didn't register at all here?
> 
> Ok, well, I knew when I was lying about how much we were texting and that it had turned inappropriate, when I started getting excited to see him. I knew it was not proper, is that clear enough? I just didn't know it would happen that day and it would have just remained inappropriate flirting if he didn't make a move. Is that hard to understand?
> 
> As for the sex, I can't talk about that here, I can tell that a lot of you are pretty squeamish and sensitive about anything of the sort and the triggers here are lighter than feathers. It was never my intention to trigger anyone, so that is best left and that.


It seems to me that you are the one who does not understand something here properly. Your lover made that move because you set the stage, not him. He accepted his role you prepared for him because he understood very easily what you wanted and that is why he made that move. You dressed for him, you were excited for him, you flirted with him and no man who has any wit will fail to understand what you wanted. I don't think it's appropriate to hold him responsible in any way for making that move and to say that everything would have remained at the level of inappropriate communication if he didn’t do what he did. You wanted him to act on it and he did. You played with fire and now you can't blame the match because you got burned. Your lover is POS but you opened the door for him to enter into your marriage and destroy your husband and your marriage. The main reason for that was character flaws and lack of moral values and then lust. (That potential is present in all of us but we don't have to act on it.)
Every evil starts from thoughts. Once the seed of lust is sown in the mind and you do not eradicate it immediately, but begin to feed it with your thoughts, it begins to grow and bear fruit that you do not expect to get. I’ve read the confessions of women who say that a few years ago they couldn’t have imagined thinking and behaving the way they think and behave today. They have become so immoral and whorish in their behavior and it all started with thinking about something immoral and destructive but exciting. That has changed their personalities so much that they are no longer the same persons as they used to be. 
I apologize for any grammatical errors because English is not my native language.


----------



## VladDracul

SRCSRC said:


> An NC letter is important for several reasons. It makes it clear to the AP that he is to stay away from you FOREVER. It sounds like he still would like to carry on even if your husband knows. His jets must be totally shut down. In the letter, you must make it clear that (1) you love your husband and are disgusted with yourself for what you did. (2) That you want to save your marriage (3) While you are to blame for what happened, the AP willingly participated in the affair and was complicit in doing great harm to your husband, marriage, and family. (4) That he is to avoid you at all costs and that any further contact will be rebuffed, including the acquisition of a restraining order, if necessary. If you don't feel this way or are unwilling to end all the ambiguity that seems to encircle this mess, then there is a problem as to your willingness to commit to reconciliation.


Y'all already know an affair partner can easily view a NC letter as being coerced, and dictated by the B.S., and reluctantly prepared and sent by the wayward spouse to keep a lid on things. In other word, it means squat unless its enforced by the wayward even when the risk of getting discovered are nil. The affair partner, as well as the wayward, may be thinking, "And when the heat is off and FOREVER is over, we'll be gettin together again". What bush chasing, unrelenting former paramour wouldn't like to possess a written and signed NC letter from a higher ranking co-worker who's the object of his affection as he continues to lightly pursue her? Don't send this MFer a damn NC letter. PR should just live a NC life if she through with this cat. As far as the guy wanting to F her again, sure he does. Some of the guys on this site would probably like to f her if they saw her and had the opportunity. Ain't no mystery there.


----------



## VladDracul

Migi said:


> Your lover made that move because you set the stage, not him. He accepted his role you prepared for him because he understood very easily what you wanted and that is why he made that move. You dressed for him, you were excited for him, you flirted with him and no man who has any wit will fail to understand what you wanted. I don't think it's appropriate to hold him responsible in any way for making that move and to say that everything would have remained at the level of inappropriate communication if he didn’t do what he did. You wanted him to act on it and he did. You played with fire and now you can't blame the match because you got burned.


I ask a state senator's wealthy wife once what she saw in me and she sent the following. Change a few names and circumstance and the story of them getting together is the same for PR.


----------



## karmagoround

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't have any idea what you people collectively read here.


Yours is a long thread, a good read though for those that would care to. I'm guessing some readers missed key info. You were clear enough about the sex that anyone that's had some could guess the rest. Some are looking for the confession they never got from their ex. Your H got your confession. That's all you owe it to.

You said "there are some things he would never get over". So you are working to strengthen around the broken linkages. Don't give up hope they might grow back. It's inspiring to read how you are studying and working to mend your marriage. 
About this understanding or realization that some are writing of. Best I can tell from reading, you were already there when you started this thread. You'll be learning and growing your whole life, but you're words indicate eyes wide open at this point. Hindsight hurts but can sure shine some light on what we wonder how we missed. 

It's a good thing that you came here. You are likely saving your H much pain by knowing what you are wading into with your reconciliation. How is the reconciliation going? It's only been a few weeks. I hope that you are feeling close and not feeling increasing distance.


----------



## ShatteredKat

useful perspective - maybe over-worded on the NC thing - 



SRCSRC said:


> PR: It's splitting hairs as to who made the first move to start your physical affair. Basically, through a series of bad choices, you allowed yourself to get involved with the AP romantically. You basically served it up to the AP the day you had your first physical encounter. He read the obvious signals and made his move. You didn't stop him because that is what you wanted. You continued for how long no one knows but finally stopped because you were racked with guilt.
> 
> Now, what do you do at this point? An NC letter is important for several reasons. It makes it clear to the AP that he is to stay away from you FOREVER. It sounds like he still would like to carry on even if your husband knows. His jets must be totally shut down. In the letter, you must make it clear that (1) you love your husband and are disgusted with yourself for what you did. (2) That you want to save your marriage (3) While you are to blame for what happened, the AP willingly participated in the affair and was complicit in doing great harm to your husband, marriage, and family. (4) That he is to avoid you at all costs and that any further contact will be rebuffed, including the acquisition of a restraining order, if necessary. If you don't feel this way or are unwilling to end all the ambiguity that seems to encircle this mess, then there is a problem as to your willingness to commit to reconciliation.
> 
> The letter shows your husband that you are totally on board with saving the marriage, that you have no intention of ever seeing the AP again, and most importantly, you have no feelings for the AP.
> 
> Concerning the AP: I hope by now you have developed some negative feelings toward that POS. While you did serve it up to him, he took advantage and willingly participated in an affair that would likely destroy your marriage. He knew your husband and probably knows your children. He is a spineless opportunist who should try and find a single partner rather than prey on married women. This should piss you off at some level. The fact he still wants to continue the affair shows you the depravity of this person. He has harmed your husband, your children, your marriage, and you. He is a dog and you should not have any warm feelings about this person. You have revealed nothing about your present feelings other than you no longer have romantic feelings toward him. That is not enough.
> 
> Finally, you state that several of your friends knew of the ongoing affair. I am deadly serious about this next point. If any of them encouraged or enabled you to cheat they must be removed from your life FOREVER. If they sat back and gave tacit approval, they must be removed from your life FOREVER. You needed someone to provide a reality check before you strayed too far. Evidently, none of them did it. They are enemies of your marriage and your husband. There is absolutely no way you should stay friends with these very likely jealous people.
> 
> These are a couple of the things you must do to help your husband begin to heal. It is all about that right now. No one knows long-term how your husband will digest what has happened. He doesn't know. Unfortunately, he will never forget what happened. If he is like most of us who have been betrayed, his feelings for you will never be the same. He will constantly do a subconscious cost/benefit analysis regarding the marriage for years. I didn't make it past year six after my discovery. I played acted being a loving husband during that time. I just felt nothing. Mercifully, she ended it by cheating again. Not to say that your husband will feel the same, but that is my experience.


Read the books by Linda MacDonald and Shirley Glass


----------



## Enigmatic

PR, there is another female poster here with a long thread about her infidelity. She has managed to balance just the right amount of salaciousness in her posts such that the (largely male) public opinion is generally with her. FWIW, I think you are on a much better path than she is, although I also suspect divorce is a possibility for you, likely of your own choosing.

Good luck.


----------



## Robert22205

How would you describe the AP now? As a nice guy?

The AP works in another area of the complex and you normally never have physical contact with him.
How well did you know this man prior to returning to the office? 

For example, was there any non business communication (including texts) between you to prior to your return to the office for one day per week? 

I ask because IMO most single men have zero interest in a happily married woman with kids unless she throws herself across his windshield.


----------



## Arkansas

Casual Observer said:


> My point is that I don't think the betraying spouse understands that the betrayed spouse's feelings are likely a moving target.


of course they don't understand 

adulterers are getting everything at home they normally get - that's the same life they've always had. In a different life running parallel, they also get to have forbidden affair, attraction, passion, desire and its wild and fun and exciting and they love it - and their minds justify what they're doing

but for the husband (in my case and this case) ..... they're absolutely blindsided 

they thought their wife was honest and genuine and true, faithful, loyal, honest ........... and what they find out is that instead, the wife is a liar, manipulative, untrustworthy, unfaithful and really not the woman/wife at all whom they loved instead replaced with someone else

I'd bet Purple Roses would say she's the same woman/wife/person she just temporarily compromised her principles

Notice Purple Roses hasn't responded to anything I've posted - I'm a mirror of her husband in that what she did, I was done to. I doubt that reality wants to be seen



I dreamed about my ex-wife two nights ago. I found out about her affair May 2nd, 2019 .... and its been over 2 years and the dreams still come, and I wake up disturbed, hurt, awash with all those feelings again and I don't sleep for days after. 

THAT is the damage chosen to do to the one person on the planet you're promised NOT to do it to. The depths of that is hard to express in words


----------



## VladDracul

Arkansas said:


> they thought their wife was honest and genuine and true, faithful, loyal, honest ........... and what they find out is that instead, the wife is a liar, manipulative, untrustworthy, unfaithful and really not the woman/wife at all whom they loved instead replaced with someone else


I doubt if there's many cases where the spouse, via body language, comments, et cetera that didn't give away they were between being vulnerable to an affair to being involved in an affair. Men typically don't listen. Few men or women are honest and genuine and true, faithful, and loyal unless its in their in best interest ( within a given + or (-) range. Too many men are like Dale on King of the Hill.


----------



## Gabriel

Going to an opposite-sex coworker's home alone (assuming it's not work-related) is pretty much telling the person you are open for physical contact. I mean, come on. 

I can't say I've ever been in an opposite sex coworker's home (or hotel room at a conference) for more than the 1-2 minutes it took her to grab whatever it is she was grabbing on the way somewhere. Assuming roughly similar ages and attractiveness....If I was spending time at her house I would immediately begin thinking it was awkward or potentially viewed as inappropriate. The tension is always there - that's just a fact.

I remember a time when I was at a seminar with 3 other coworkers and we agreed to meet in one of the female's rooms to study the material in the evening. The other two guys left, leaving me and the woman in there and it was a palpable tension. I tried not to make it a thing - but after a few minutes I just had to get out of there. Had I been "open to fooling around", I would have hung out and given the vibe I was getting, stuff would have definitely happened. 

Moral of the story, you just don't do this. And if you do, I'm assuming you are liking the possibility of screwing around.


----------



## ScotchnStout

SunCMars said:


> This was my exact reason for PurpleRoses keeping silent on her affair.
> 
> If she wants to stay married, she should never reveal what she did.
> 
> She should treat her husband like a king, now, and forever.....thereafter.
> Make it up to him by being a perfect wife and companion.
> 
> If she no longer loves him, just leave, cite incompatibility and her falling out of love.
> 
> 
> *Either way, why tell, why crush an innocent soul?*
> 
> 
> _Truth can be freeing.
> Truth, such as this, can suffocate the victim of it.
> Only those, also cruel, resort to such, this honesty.
> 
> The below edited for clarity:_
> If a cheater is rightly suspected of cheating, that is a different situation.
> He/she should confess.
> 
> 
> 
> _Are Dee- _I realize, on this topic, mine is not a popular opinion.


Smh


----------



## Arkansas

VladDracul said:


> I doubt if there's many cases where the spouse, via body language, comments, et cetera that didn't give away they were between being vulnerable to an affair to being involved in an affair.


there is a vast difference in once or twice in a marriage thinking something and calculating, scheming, planning, daydreaming etc then executing and arranging it, lying every second of the day to the husband 

and everyone knows the destruction it causes and they CHOOSE TO DO IT

it aint an accident


----------



## Arkansas

ScotchnStout said:


> Smh


me too

lying for a lifetime isn't what a marriage is supposed to be


----------



## californian

PurpleRoses, do you love your husband?


----------



## Tested_by_stress

californian said:


> PurpleRoses, do you love your husband?


Obviously not enough......if at all!


----------



## ScotchnStout

Arkansas said:


> me too
> 
> lying for a lifetime isn't what a marriage is supposed to be


True, how some think that's useful advice is shocking to me


----------



## PurpleRoses

karmagoround said:


> Yours is a long thread, a good read though for those that would care to. I'm guessing some readers missed key info. You were clear enough about the sex that anyone that's had some could guess the rest. Some are looking for the confession they never got from their ex. Your H got your confession. That's all you owe it to.
> 
> You said "there are some things he would never get over". So you are working to strengthen around the broken linkages. Don't give up hope they might grow back. It's inspiring to read how you are studying and working to mend your marriage.
> About this understanding or realization that some are writing of. Best I can tell from reading, you were already there when you started this thread. You'll be learning and growing your whole life, but you're words indicate eyes wide open at this point. Hindsight hurts but can sure shine some light on what we wonder how we missed.
> 
> It's a good thing that you came here. You are likely saving your H much pain by knowing what you are wading into with your reconciliation. How is the reconciliation going? It's only been a few weeks. I hope that you are feeling close and not feeling increasing distance.


We had a difficult day yesterday, he's really paranoid and I don't blame him. He took a black light to all my clothes and made me explain this or that. And now I have a list of rules to follow, so there's that.


----------



## PurpleRoses

californian said:


> PurpleRoses, do you love your husband?


Yes


----------



## PurpleRoses

Gabriel said:


> Going to an opposite-sex coworker's home alone (assuming it's not work-related) is pretty much telling the person you are open for physical contact. I mean, come on.
> 
> I can't say I've ever been in an opposite sex coworker's home (or hotel room at a conference) for more than the 1-2 minutes it took her to grab whatever it is she was grabbing on the way somewhere. Assuming roughly similar ages and attractiveness....If I was spending time at her house I would immediately begin thinking it was awkward or potentially viewed as inappropriate. The tension is always there - that's just a fact.
> 
> I remember a time when I was at a seminar with 3 other coworkers and we agreed to meet in one of the female's rooms to study the material in the evening. The other two guys left, leaving me and the woman in there and it was a palpable tension. I tried not to make it a thing - but after a few minutes I just had to get out of there. Had I been "open to fooling around", I would have hung out and given the vibe I was getting, stuff would have definitely happened.
> 
> Moral of the story, you just don't do this. And if you do, I'm assuming you are liking the possibility of screwing around.


I didn't once say it was appropriate or that this was anyone's fault but mine.


----------



## Harold Demure

So how do you feel about the set of rules?

Are they punitive?

Are they just the first set with others to come?


----------



## Slow Hand

PurpleRoses said:


> We had a difficult day yesterday, he's really paranoid and I don't blame him. He took a black light to all my clothes and made me explain this or that. And now I have a list of rules to follow, so there's that.


It was to be expected, only the beginning, then those mind movies. 😕


----------



## PurpleRoses

Robert22205 said:


> How would you describe the AP now? As a nice guy?
> 
> The AP works in another area of the complex and you normally never have physical contact with him.
> How well did you know this man prior to returning to the office?
> 
> For example, was there any non business communication (including texts) between you to prior to your return to the office for one day per week?
> 
> I ask because IMO most single men have zero interest in a happily married woman with kids unless she throws herself across his windshield.


We were friends, we had been friends for years. I first was just talking to him on the phone because they were doing a retrofit and I didn't like how the engineers always did stuff without asking. So I was talking to him because he was the procurement agent and we had a common enemy, I didn't even know what he looked like, but he was personable. As it turned out he was doing the lunch time yoga thing they had in the building at the time and was usually on the mat next to me, eventually it clicked that we had been speaking on the phone and we started going to lunch or coffee sometimes, but not just the two of us, there would be others there too. But we became friends. He doesn't work as a procurement agent now, in the same group, but at a level were we would never cross paths. We became friends out of work too, he had a GF at the time and I would see them at the gym and do stuff sometimes. 

When I started coming into work for a few days a week, I asked him if he wanted to come too. I didn't just run into him there. I'm a social person and my social life had become nothing, that's all, I wanted to see my friend. But something happened and I regret it.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Harold Demure said:


> So how do you feel about the set of rules?
> 
> Are they punitive?
> 
> Are they just the first set with others to come?


Well I agreed to them, so what does it matter what I think? Yes, they are punitive.


----------



## Harold Demure

Well, I think it does show a positive shift in attitude if you have agreed to punitive rules which is probably the thing that matters.


----------



## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> We had a difficult day yesterday, he's really paranoid and I don't blame him. He took a black light to all my clothes and made me explain this or that. And now I have a list of rules to follow, so there's that.


And you're still not seeing the point of a timeline for him, leaving nothing out? I think the black light thing probably caught many of us off-guard; that's pretty creative! But also an indication of what, to many of us, is obvious. His need to know the details. And if he discovers the details on his own, before you spill them, then that further erodes any trust remaining between the two of you. Do you see that now? You likely resent that you have rules you must follow now, and feel like you have no control. But you do have control. You are able to help re-establish a minimal degree of trust, or at least slow down its erosion enough to have a chance at reconciliation. 

Are you comfortable letting us know what the rules are?


----------



## VladDracul

PurpleRoses said:


> We had a difficult day yesterday, he's really paranoid and I don't blame him. He took a black light to all my clothes and made me explain this or that. And now I have a list of rules to follow, so there's that.


How long do you think you're going to be able to deal with this environment? From what I've gleaned thusfar, you don't seem like a woman with much patients for a daily shakedown.


----------



## Casual Observer

VladDracul said:


> How long do you think you're going to be able to deal with this environment? From what I've gleaned thusfar, you don't seem like a woman with much patients for a daily shakedown.


All the more reason for that timeline. Get it over with once and for all. If it's clear the timeline (a real timeline, no trickle truthing, no lurid details held back) doesn't change his mission from "discovery" to thinking constructively about the future, then you know what you need to know. R isn't likely. At least not R in which the WW thinks she's made the right choice.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Casual Observer said:


> And you're still not seeing the point of a timeline for him, leaving nothing out? I think the black light thing probably caught many of us off-guard; that's pretty creative! But also an indication of what, to many of us, is obvious. His need to know the details. And if he discovers the details on his own, before you spill them, then that further erodes any trust remaining between the two of you. Do you see that now? You likely resent that you have rules you must follow now, and feel like you have no control. But you do have control. You are able to help re-establish a minimal degree of trust, or at least slow down its erosion enough to have a chance at reconciliation.
> 
> Are you comfortable letting us know what the rules are?


I've told him everything, he thinks there's more. Not much I can say will change that.


----------



## PurpleRoses

VladDracul said:


> How long do you think you're going to be able to deal with this environment? From what I've gleaned thusfar, you don't seem like a woman with much patients for a daily shakedown.


Honestly, I don't know, but I want to try. I don't like it though.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Casual Observer said:


> All the more reason for that timeline. Get it over with once and for all. If it's clear the timeline (a real timeline, no trickle truthing, no lurid details held back) doesn't change his mission from "discovery" to thinking constructively about the future, then you know what you need to know. R isn't likely. At least not R in which the WW thinks she's made the right choice.


He doesn't want a timeline, he wants me to put a GPS thing on my keys.


----------



## Zedd

PurpleRoses said:


> He doesn't want a timeline, he wants me to put a GPS thing on my keys.


Be proactive. Tell him that's inssuficient. It'd be far eaisier to leave your keys in a safe place or take the tracker off the key ring, than to leave your phone behind. Offer to get an app that allows you both to see each other's location.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Zedd said:


> Be proactive. Tell him that's inssuficient. It'd be far eaisier to leave your keys in a safe place or take the tracker off the key ring, than to leave your phone behind. Offer to get an app that allows you both to see each other's location.


I don't give a crap where he goes.


----------



## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> I've told him everything, he thinks there's more. Not much I can say will change that.


If you didn't write it down, take time to think about it, that's very different from telling things verbally. Even if you did tell him "everything" his recollection will be different; he will say "No, you didn't tell me that" and further, when telling him "live" (verbally), his reaction will naturally alter the way the story is told.

If you want to get to the point of telling him *I can't live like this*, your current path will get you there quickly. It's easy to see you feel a need to be in control of things. You have an opportunity to do so, in a positive way. Your husband is spiraling out of control; you feel unable to predict his next move, but you know it won't be to your liking. So deal with it. Become proactive.


----------



## Harold Demure

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't give a crap where he goes.


And there we have the real you. You don’t love anyone but yourself.

I used to think you were self centred and self entitled but do you think you may have ASPD?

Why not just divorce him now and give the poor b*stard a chance at happiness away from a very toxic partner like you?


----------



## Zedd

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't give a crap where he goes.


Nor should you. But, nevertheless, that's not at all what I meant. The intent is you giving up your location freely to him. Generally, those apps are a two way street. It's not about you keeping an eye on him.


----------



## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't give a crap where he goes.


You need to elaborate on this remark. What do you mean by it?


----------



## PurpleRoses

Zedd said:


> Nor should you. But, nevertheless, that's not at all what I meant. The intent is you giving up your location freely to him. Generally, those apps are a two way street. It's not about you keeping an eye on him.


Look, I have to answer my phone when he calls and take a picture of who I'm with upon request. And spot checks, etc.

Basically the whole riot act.


----------



## Harold Demure

Oh dear, how sad, never mind!


----------



## Arkansas

Purple Roses

I hid a GPS tracker on my ex's truck, I also placed a secret recording device in her truck. That was invaluable in me finding out her continued cheating and lying. I also checked multiple times each day her phone records ..... every single thing that didn't make sense my mind raced to conclusions. 

Its what position you've put him in - you understand that right? My ex started the whole "he's suffocating me" thing in counseling .... and I saw her point of view, she never saw mine because she had lived two lives and her mind had separated them. She wanted her adultery (either active or remembering it fondly) and she also wanted her husband/marriage/kids

can't have both

so let me add this too - forgiveness is Biblical. How I am supposed to forgive I have no idea because what my ex wife did haunts me every day. I thought about it for hours this morning, it never goes away. I'm damaged in who I was, and who I am now as well. My views/beliefs have been changed. I never asked for ANY of that - I was bomb shelled. But I know I'm supposed to forgive. I think the biggest reason I never did was my ex never really apologized. more importantly, she neve saw what she did as evil and sin. She would say she "temporarily compromised her values" ..... that's so simplistic its laughable. 

if you are TRULY sorry, you'll do anything and everything your husband want and you'll WANT to do it. you will never stop apologizing and being regretful and showing remorse. You will spend the rest of your life knowing the terrible damage you've done and try to repair it

if you can do those things - he might can forgive .......... everyone DOES deserve it, but only if they are truly worthy of it


----------



## Arkansas

PurpleRoses said:


> Look, I have to answer my phone when he calls and take a picture of who I'm with upon request. And spot checks, etc.
> 
> Basically the whole riot act.



When I read this -  ....... did you think he'd forgive and forget in 2 weeks ?

maybe 10 years ..... maybe 20 years .... and he'll never forget


----------



## bobert

PurpleRoses said:


> Look, I have to answer my phone when he calls and take a picture of who I'm with upon request. And spot checks, etc.
> 
> Basically the whole riot act.


If you were actually remorseful you would do it without any complaints.


----------



## Openminded

Recovery takes years (usually 2 - 5). Maybe he’ll recover more quickly than most but that’s not something you‘ll be able to count on. It takes as long as it takes and he controls the process. My advice is to continue to give him what he says he needs to heal — even if you don’t agree. Trying to rebuild a marriage after infidelity is the hardest thing I’ve been through (mine failed years later). Some do succeed — maybe yours will be one that does.


----------



## farsidejunky

PurpleRoses said:


> Look, I have to answer my phone when he calls and take a picture of who I'm with upon request. And spot checks, etc.
> 
> Basically the whole riot act.


Resentment will be the final nail in the coffin of your relationship...a coffin you built and furnished.

If that is what you want, carry on. And perhaps that is best for both of you.

Honestly, you sound like someone who thought that your confession should be enough for him, and that life would continue as-is.

That indicates a seriously extreme level of dissonance.

I normally say that a wayward needs to be willing to proverbially crawl a mile over broken glass to prove they can be trusted again. It sounds like you are resenting him for even considering kneeling. 

Maybe it is best if you let him go. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Openminded

What he’s asking for is minor compared to what some husbands want. If you’re resentful already (and you sound that way) you will have a very difficult time with this. Even if you do everything he wants, it’s possible that he may never trust you again.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Openminded said:


> Recovery takes years (usually 2 - 5). Maybe he’ll recover more quickly than most but that’s not something you‘ll be able to count on. It takes as long as it takes and he controls the process. My advice is to continue to give him what he says he needs to heal — even if you don’t agree. Trying to rebuild a marriage after infidelity is the hardest thing I’ve been through (mine failed years later). Some do succeed — maybe yours will be one that does.


I did agree to most of it and tried to comprimise as well, but I don't have to like it. I'm in the wrong, I get that, I want our marriage to work, but I don't know if I have it in me. I've never answered to any man, he can ask my dad how much luck he had.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Openminded said:


> What he’s asking for is minor compared to what some husbands want. If you’re resentful already (and you sound that way) you will have a very difficult time with this. Even if you do everything he wants, it’s possible that he may never trust you again.


It really isn't minor, I didn't get into all of it, because it upsets me to even write.


----------



## Arkansas

PurpleRoses said:


> I did agree to most of it and tried to comprimise as well, but I don't have to like it. I'm in the wrong, I get that, I want our marriage to work, but I don't know if I have it in me. I've never answered to any man, he can ask my dad how much luck he had.



I wish you could feel what he feels for 1 hour


----------



## BigDaddyNY

PurpleRoses said:


> I did agree to most of it and tried to comprimise as well, but I don't have to like it. I'm in the wrong, I get that, I want our marriage to work, but I don't know if I have it in me. I've never answered to any man, he can ask my dad how much luck he had.





PurpleRoses said:


> It really isn't minor, I didn't get into all of it, because it upsets me to even write.


Throughout this entire thread it seems that your heart really isn't in it. You have more excuses and disdain than remorse. Everyone has been telling you exactly how this would go down. Because you are completely untrustworthy a million different scenarios are going through your husband's mind and he is trying to protect himself from all of them by putting these rules in place. And here you are complaining about them. Your marriage was on life support when you asked this guy to come to work with you and it died the day you put on that sundress and dolled yourself up for him. You need to either graciously accept every demand he has or you should just leave now. Going halfway and trying to negotiate with him is not going to work.


----------



## Gabriel

Maybe it's just your tone, but you sound like someone who is mad at your H's demands. You don't sound remorseful at all - just upset with yourself and annoyed at how inconvenient this is for you.

When a woman (especially) screws someone outside the marriage, it's typically a symptom of other problems. Were you unfulfilled in your marriage?

You also sound pretty resentful of what your H is making you do. That won't last.
.
.
.
Here's why I say this. When I caught my wife via email (she had an emotional affair, no sex), and I demanded things, she reluctantly agreed and after a few months she rebelled against it, went underground with her texting and started talking to her AP again. That's because she didn't want to make things right - it was an annoyance and she wasn't fulfilled in the marriage before the affair.

But once I figured out this was going on, I gave her one last chance - told her to write a No Contact letter, and if she ever spoke to him again I would immediately divorce her. This woke her up, and she realized, very suddenly, she was about to lose her family over this. And that was the last time they ever communicated. I watched phone records for about a year after that, and her email. After 100% clear for that long I finally trusted her, relaxed, and really got to a point of ambivalence over her AP, as I just knew that was done with.

The difference was SHE wanted to save the marriage at that point. It wasn't an "order" - it was something she had to want to do. She wanted to show me she was done.


----------



## Harold Demure

As I said earlier, why not save you and him further pain by just getting divorced?

It is obvious this isn’t going to work out.

You seem proud to put down your father and any man. You really do need serious help with your personality disorders before you become even a half way suitable partner for anyone.


----------



## Gabriel

BigDaddyNY said:


> Throughout this entire thread it seems that your heart really isn't in it. You have more excuses and disdain than remorse. Everyone has been telling you exactly how this would go down. Because you are completely untrustworthy a million different scenarios are going through your husband's mind and he is trying to protect himself from all of them by putting these rules in place. And here you are complaining about them. Your marriage was on life support when you asked this guy to come to work with you and it died the day you put on that sundress and dolled yourself up for him. You need to either graciously accept every demand he has or you should just leave now. Going halfway and trying to negotiate with him is not going to work.


100% this. Now, it's possible she will get there with a little more time, but right now, she's not close.


----------



## Arkansas

BigDaddyNY said:


> Your marriage was on life support when you asked this guy to come to work with you and it died the day you put on that sundress and dolled yourself up for him. You need to either graciously accept every demand he has or you should just leave now. Going halfway and trying to negotiate with him is not going to work.


this


So here is what PurpleRoses knows. She knows she can get emotionally attached to someone else and have sex with someone else too. She knows if/when marriage fails, she can find someone and in reality, he's already there waiting for her when her marriage fails. 

PurpleRoses knows he's there too.

Husband? He hasn't any idea how to love someone else, or have sex with someone else. Unless he's been unfaithful, all the years he's trained his mind/body to only be with his faithful, loving, trustworthy wife. He feels so isolated and alone and he is grasping to hold on any way he can


----------



## Affaircare

@PurpleRoses,

Hi! Not sure if you remember me, but I am a former WaywardSpouse, and I wanted to comment about something that stood out to me. I do not know every "rule" your husband has set out for you, but since I also had an affair, I can give an educated guess. The thing that stood out to me, though, is your attitude towards the "rules." It stood out, because I remember at the time being very sad and feeling like I let myself and everyone down...but I never viewed the "rules" as a punitive punishment. Rather, I viewed them as a *relief *because I had a concrete way to earn my way back into trust!

My Dear Hubby (the one who has passed away) set up some "rules" for me too. I closed all my social media accounts forever (after a couple years, I gained them back a bit, but seriously it was a couple years). I closed every email address except one that I shared with him. He checked all emails incoming and outgoing. I ended every friendship with everyone who knew "me & OM" as a couple. I was only on the computer when he had FULL VIEW of the screen, and since I worked from home, I turned my screen so he could always see it. I could not "click down" a screen I was on--he had the right to always see everything I was doing on my computer. He regularly checked my history, and he was computer savvy so I'm sure he checked deleted to see if I had deleted any (I didn't). He regularly checked our cell phone account for who I called and why. Etc. Sound about right?

See...I can understand how those rules feel controlling, but here's the thing: he and I agreed that in order to really and truly reconcile, we had to CHANGE OUR HEARTS and THOUGHTS. Up to that point, I had been excluding him from areas of my life--and the result was that I had a separate life from him! We decided that in order to move forward, we BOTH had to include each other in every single aspect of our lives. To restate that another way, as a married couple we were intimate with each other IN EVERY WAY (not just sex), but also emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and every possible way. That means I agreed to let him into my life, and I also agreed to give him rights and access to all parts of me--I didn't hide anything. In real life, hiding = lying, and access/sharing = honesty. I let him in and let him see the good, the bad, and the ugly. 

THAT is the part I am not hearing from you. It stands out to me. To me, you resent that you "have to" do these things that are actually the kinds of actions that mean "I am open to you, and you have access to me." Do you know what that means? That means part of you wants to keep your husband OUT of some aspects of your life! And that also means that even though you've been given the gift of a pathway to re-establish trust by acting in a trust WORTHY way...that you resent that you "have to" be honest! That is telling. 

That's why it really is vital for you to change your way of thinking--your perspective, if you will. Right now, it is almost palpable that you do NOT want to "have to" do these things (and trust me, if I can feel that over the anonymous internet, your husband, who is right there in the room with you, knows too!). So right now your #1 goal must be to change the way you view these "rules". They aren't necessarily "to control you" just for the sake of being controlling. They are a stepping stone for you to ACT and LIVE in an open and honest way with the man whom you voluntarily promised to spend your life loving--and to whom you broke that promise. He's given you a gift, really! Work on changing how you think of it, and work on willingly and enthusiastically demonstrating that you are ready to include him and be open with him.


----------



## jsmart

PurpleRoses said:


> Look, I have to answer my phone when he calls and take a picture of who I'm with upon request. And spot checks, etc.
> 
> Basically the whole riot act.


The contempt you hold for your betrayed husband just leaps off the page. It actually saddens me because there are times that we see some hope and true contrition on your part but if I’m being honest, you mostly come across as a very cold hearted wife who thinks she did her husband a favor by coming clean and staying with him. It’s almost like you feel he’s lucky you didn’t leave to be with OM. 

Maybe if you face some real consequences, you wouldn’t have this woe is me attitude. You should confess and apologize to both families and your nearly adult kids. Seeing the disappointment in your parents eyes, the anger in his parents eyes, and most importantly the hurt in your kids eyes will help it really sink in the depth of your betrayal. Keeping it secret is a form of rug sweeping.


----------



## PurpleRoses

BigDaddyNY said:


> Throughout this entire thread it seems that your heart really isn't in it. You have more excuses and disdain than remorse. Everyone has been telling you exactly how this would go down. Because you are completely untrustworthy a million different scenarios are going through your husband's mind and he is trying to protect himself from all of them by putting these rules in place. And here you are complaining about them. Your marriage was on life support when you asked this guy to come to work with you and it died the day you put on that sundress and dolled yourself up for him. You need to either graciously accept every demand he has or you should just leave now. Going halfway and trying to negotiate with him is not going to work.


No, actually I don't have to agree to any demand. One of them was obligatory sex times. I'm sorry but nobody owns my body, I don't care what he or anyone else thinks about affairs, I will have sex if I feel like it and there is no more discussion on that. I can try to be more available but we are not keeping score or anything like that. I am willing to do a lot and agreed to a lot. Nobody, I don't care if there is a ring or not, has the right over my body. There is no debating this.


----------



## LATERILUS79

VladDracul said:


> How long do you think you're going to be able to deal with this environment? From what I've gleaned thusfar, you don't seem like a woman with much patients for a daily shakedown.


I see it too, Vlad.

I get the impression that she is offended that her husband isn’t willing to rug sweep after she so nicely confessed her transgressions


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## Harold Demure

jsmart said:


> The contempt you hold for your betrayed husband just leaps off the page. It actually saddens me because there are times that we see some hope and true contrition on your part but if I’m being honest, you mostly come across as a very cold hearted wife who thinks she did her husband a favor by coming clean and staying with him. It’s almost like you feel he’s lucky you didn’t leave to be with OM.
> 
> Maybe if you face some real consequences, you wouldn’t have this woe is me attitude. You should confess and apologize to both families and your nearly adult kids. Seeing the disappointment in your parents eyes, the anger in his parents eyes, and most importantly the hurt in your kids eyes will help it really sink in the depth of your betrayal. Keeping it secret is a form of rug sweeping.


Do you think she has it in her to actually care what her parents or children think of her because I don’t?

She was right about one thing though, she will have sex when she feels like it. The bit that is missing is “with whom she wants”.


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## SRCSRC

PurpleRoses said:


> It really isn't minor, I didn't get into all of it, because it upsets me to even write.


Sadly, you just don't get it. Evidently, your husband is not ready to rug sweep this whole mess. You would love to do that. You haven't sent an NC letter, you haven't dumped or considered dumping your confidants who may have enabled or encouraged you during your affair, and you haven't committed to never, ever talking to the AP ever again. The fact that you presently have no desire to talk to him or see him is simply not enough. Clearly, you can't commit to the never, ever aspect of contact. If you could, there would be no problem in sending the NC letter. Why can't you?


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## OddOne

jsmart said:


> Seeing the disappointment in your parents eyes, the anger in his parents eyes, and most importantly the hurt in your kids eyes will help it really sink in the depth of your betrayal.


Are you sure about that?


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## PurpleRoses

Affaircare said:


> @PurpleRoses,
> 
> Hi! Not sure if you remember me, but I am a former WaywardSpouse, and I wanted to comment about something that stood out to me. I do not know every "rule" your husband has set out for you, but since I also had an affair, I can give an educated guess. The thing that stood out to me, though, is your attitude towards the "rules." It stood out, because I remember at the time being very sad and feeling like I let myself and everyone down...but I never viewed the "rules" as a punitive punishment. Rather, I viewed them as a *relief *because I had a concrete way to earn my way back into trust!
> 
> My Dear Hubby (the one who has passed away) set up some "rules" for me too. I closed all my social media accounts forever (after a couple years, I gained them back a bit, but seriously it was a couple years). I closed every email address except one that I shared with him. He checked all emails incoming and outgoing. I ended every friendship with everyone who knew "me & OM" as a couple. I was only on the computer when he had FULL VIEW of the screen, and since I worked from home, I turned my screen so he could always see it. I could not "click down" a screen I was on--he had the right to always see everything I was doing on my computer. He regularly checked my history, and he was computer savvy so I'm sure he checked deleted to see if I had deleted any (I didn't). He regularly checked our cell phone account for who I called and why. Etc. Sound about right?
> 
> See...I can understand how those rules feel controlling, but here's the thing: he and I agreed that in order to really and truly reconcile, we had to CHANGE OUR HEARTS and THOUGHTS. Up to that point, I had been excluding him from areas of my life--and the result was that I had a separate life from him! We decided that in order to move forward, we BOTH had to include each other in every single aspect of our lives. To restate that another way, as a married couple we were intimate with each other IN EVERY WAY (not just sex), but also emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and every possible way. That means I agreed to let him into my life, and I also agreed to give him rights and access to all parts of me--I didn't hide anything. In real life, hiding = lying, and access/sharing = honesty. I let him in and let him see the good, the bad, and the ugly.
> 
> THAT is the part I am not hearing from you. It stands out to me. To me, you resent that you "have to" do these things that are actually the kinds of actions that mean "I am open to you, and you have access to me." Do you know what that means? That means part of you wants to keep your husband OUT of some aspects of your life! And that also means that even though you've been given the gift of a pathway to re-establish trust by acting in a trust WORTHY way...that you resent that you "have to" be honest! That is telling.
> 
> That's why it really is vital for you to change your way of thinking--your perspective, if you will. Right now, it is almost palpable that you do NOT want to "have to" do these things (and trust me, if I can feel that over the anonymous internet, your husband, who is right there in the room with you, knows too!). So right now your #1 goal must be to change the way you view these "rules". They aren't necessarily "to control you" just for the sake of being controlling. They are a stepping stone for you to ACT and LIVE in an open and honest way with the man whom you voluntarily promised to spend your life loving--and to whom you broke that promise. He's given you a gift, really! Work on changing how you think of it, and work on willingly and enthusiastically demonstrating that you are ready to include him and be open with him.


It is really difficult, and I want to be open. We agreed that he can check my phone with me for a list of callers and texts, but not read them. I have a list of approved numbers and if I want to add one then I clear it with him first. If any number that he doesn't recognize shows up then he can either read it or check the number out. He doesn't have the right to my every private thought I share with my friends or if I visit an infidelity forum to vent; even if about him. I do have relationships with friends that go back to middle school, and he doesn't have the right to our thoughts. And he doesn't want that, he respects that much. I am ok with wanting to know where I am or where I'm going or who I'm seeing socially. Most times he's with me anyways, we don't have completely separate social lives. I'm bothered by some of the other things, and how he spoke to me. I still have a right to my feelings and being told that I can lose privilidges if I talk back to him for requesting a spot check really hurt me. Maybe that makes me a remorseless ***** so be it.


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## Zedd

PurpleRoses said:


> Look, I have to answer my phone when he calls and take a picture of who I'm with upon request. And spot checks, etc.
> 
> Basically the whole riot act.


I understand. My point was more that, rather than focus on what he's asking you to do, focus on what he's trying to gain from you with each of his demands and see what you can do that's better than what he's asking of you.

Some of them will be punitive, for sure, but not all of them.


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## bobert

PurpleRoses said:


> It is really difficult, and I want to be open. We agreed that he can check my phone with me for a list of callers and texts, but not read them. I have a list of approved numbers and if I want to add one then I clear it with him first. If any number that he doesn't recognize shows up then he can either read it or check the number out. He doesn't have the right to my every private thought I share with my friends or if I visit an infidelity forum to vent; even if about him. I do have relationships with friends that go back to middle school, and he doesn't have the right to our thoughts. And he doesn't want that, he respects that much. I am ok with wanting to know where I am or where I'm going or who I'm seeing socially. Most times he's with me anyways, we don't have completely separate social lives. I'm bothered by some of the other things, and how he spoke to me. I still have a right to my feelings and being told that I can lose privilidges if I talk back to him for requesting a spot check really hurt me. Maybe that makes me a remorseless *** so be it.


It's not about him "having a right" to x, y, or z. It's about you genuinely _wanting_ to share everything with him and be 100% open from now on, and wanting to do _everything _that you possibly can to help him heal after you destroyed him.

You don't though.


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## Arkansas

PurpleRoses said:


> No, actually I don't have to agree to any demand.


I can see that

What's happening here, is you created a situation - your husband is reacting - and you're mad at his reaction and hoping he'll apologize or foget/forgive quickly for reacting to what you did. Amazing - my ex did that too until I broke the chains of her control


Vows, Rules, Promises, Trust ... none of that you stuck to either and lets be honest - you're not going to stick to any demands being made and your body .... well, you've already given that to another besides your husband so that's kind of a given.


my last comment here - I can see much of my ex-wife in the words PR is typing. I hope your husband gets a great lawyer and finds some "win" in all this. You've made your bed -


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## SRCSRC

PurpleRoses said:


> No, actually I don't have to agree to any demand. One of them was obligatory sex times. I'm sorry but nobody owns my body, I don't care what he or anyone else thinks about affairs, I will have sex if I feel like it and there is no more discussion on that. I can try to be more available but we are not keeping score or anything like that. I am willing to do a lot and agreed to a lot. Nobody, I don't care if there is a ring or not, has the right over my body. There is no debating this.


During your affair, did you also have sexual relations with your husband? It seems like your husband is trying to recapture his sense of exclusivity.


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## PurpleRoses

SRCSRC said:


> During your affair, did you also have sexual relations with your husband? It seems like your husband is trying to recapture his sense of exclusivity.


Yes, we were still having sex during that time. And even if we weren't this is not a request I could possibly agree to.


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## Arkansas

PurpleRoses said:


> Yes, we were still having sex during that time. And even if we weren't this is not a request I could possibly agree to.


my ex would have sex with her boy toy, come up to me cooking breakfast and kiss me on the mouth

you have absolutely no idea how that feels  

I don't really see you trying to feel what your husband is feeling at all - still making it all about you aren't you ?


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## PurpleRoses

Zedd said:


> I understand. My point was more that, rather than focus on what he's asking you to do, focus on what he's trying to gain from you with each of his demands and see what you can do that's better than what he's asking of you.
> 
> Some of them will be punitive, for sure, but not all of them.


If I am as hostile as some seem to think, I would have left him last night. I know what I did is traumatic and I am not judging him for any of the things he's asking for. Even the stuff that would have made me hysterical in another time. I'm just feeling overwhelmed and anxious. I'm scared about what he's going to say to me when he gets home or if he even loves me anymore. I know nobody would think so, but what I did traumatized myself too. I feel like a total failure to my family.


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## PurpleRoses

Arkansas said:


> my ex would have sex with her boy toy, come up to me cooking breakfast and kiss me on the mouth
> 
> you have absolutely no idea how that feels
> 
> I don't really see you trying to feel what your husband is feeling at all - still making it all about you aren't you ?


Perhaps you don't get it, so I will be clear. We are talking about scheduled sex and consequences for not. I don't give a single crap about what I have done he does not own my body period. So F off with that crap.


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## BigDaddyNY

PurpleRoses said:


> No, actually I don't have to agree to any demand. One of them was obligatory sex times. I'm sorry but nobody owns my body, I don't care what he or anyone else thinks about affairs, I will have sex if I feel like it and there is no more discussion on that. I can try to be more available but we are not keeping score or anything like that. I am willing to do a lot and agreed to a lot. Nobody, I don't care if there is a ring or not, has the right over my body. There is no debating this.


I agree that obligatory sex is not right. Just remember, your choices broke your husband. Now he is trying to make sense of all this and he is grasping at anything he can to put his shattered life back together. You can't expect him to be 100% rational. 



PurpleRoses said:


> It is really difficult, and I want to be open. We agreed that he can check my phone with me for a list of callers and texts, but not read them. I have a list of approved numbers and if I want to add one then I clear it with him first. If any number that he doesn't recognize shows up then he can either read it or check the number out. He doesn't have the right to my every private thought I share with my friends or if I visit an infidelity forum to vent; even if about him. I do have relationships with friends that go back to middle school, and he doesn't have the right to our thoughts. And he doesn't want that, he respects that much. I am ok with wanting to know where I am or where I'm going or who I'm seeing socially. Most times he's with me anyways, we don't have completely separate social lives. I'm bothered by some of the other things, and how he spoke to me. *I still have a right to my feelings and being told that I can lose privilidges if I talk back to him for requesting a spot check really hurt me.* Maybe that makes me a remorseless *** so be it.


I know everyone's marriage dynamic is different, but my wife and I have always been open books to each other. We share an email account, we have free unrestricted access to every communication device we own. I don't go poking through all her business, but I can if I want and so can she. If you had that kind of relationship to begin with the affair may have been avoided. Don't discount its value in helping repair this mess. 

Of course it hurts, as it should. Did you think this would be pain free?


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## Gabriel

I do agree that being a sex slave is a harsh demand. In his shoes, I wouldn't have made that demand ahead of time. Instead if compelled I would have taken her to bed when I wanted to....and if I got rejected, there would have likely been a tough conversation. "Oh, if your boyfriend wanted it, you'd give it to him wouldn't you?" is likely what I would have said.

PR has NO CLUE what this has done to her H. It's a pain worse than anything, other than probably death of spouse or child. It hurt more than when my dad died.


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## Arkansas

PurpleRoses said:


> Perhaps you don't get it, so I will be clear. We are talking about scheduled sex and consequences for not. I don't give a single crap about what I have done he does not own my body period. So F off with that crap.


yes, he actually does and you own his if you have any Biblical sensitivity at all

if you have a polyamorous view on the world I suppose your husband would have known by now

I don't have to F off with anything - I know much of what your husband is feeling, you're just not listening. My ex didn't either, thought she controlled everything until she lost everything. 

You will lose everything unless you lose your narcissist thoughts and selfish views and try in every way possible to undo what you're done.


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## BigDaddyNY

PurpleRoses said:


> Perhaps you don't get it, so I will be clear. We are talking about scheduled sex and consequences for not. I don't give a single crap about what I have done he does not own my body period. So F off with that crap.


Your anger made you miss his point, at least the point I think he was making. He wasn't talking about your husbands demand, he is talking about the time while you were having sex with your AP. @Arkansas is telling you how after the knowledge of the affair has come to light, your husband is thinking about those things. How many times did he kiss you after your AP came in your mouth, or how many times he had sloppy seconds when he thought he was making love to an honest and trustworthy woman? I think it is those thought patterns that probably lead him to demand scheduled sex, right or wrong.


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## Gabriel

We are seeing in real time why reconciliation after a physical affair like this is almost never successful.

I hear the anger in PR's posts. I'm sure some of that anger is because she's angry with herself and the situation she's put herself in. We are easy targets here- she can't yell at her H or kids.

She has every right to reject demands she's not able to accept. Then it's back on her H to decide from there if he can accept what she's willing to do, or to divorce her.


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## Blondilocks

PurpleRoses said:


> I still have a right to my feelings and being told that I can lose *privilidges *if I talk back to him for requesting a spot check really hurt me.





PurpleRoses said:


> We are talking about scheduled sex and *consequences *for not.


Please elaborate on the privileges and consequences. I'm not liking the sound of that.


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## Openminded

PurpleRoses said:


> It really isn't minor, I didn't get into all of it, because it upsets me to even write.


Minor or not, your husband has told you what he needs for now. There may be other stuff down the road that you’ll like even less than this. You’ll either do it or you won’t do it. That’s up to you. If you don’t, your husband will have to decide whether he wants to remain married to you. My husband of very many years is now an ex because he didn’t want to do what I needed him to do. It happens.


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## SRCSRC

PurpleRoses said:


> Perhaps you don't get it, so I will be clear. We are talking about scheduled sex and consequences for not. I don't give a single crap about what I have done he does not own my body period. So F off with that crap.


I agree. Your husband is a mess and his request borders on the irrational. I would never want to have sex with someone who wasn't into it. When that has been made clear to me, I shut down immediately. I didn't make such a demand on my ex-WW. I had enough trouble ever touching her again. But he wants to reestablish the exclusivity aspect of your relationship in a desperate way. Somehow, he thinks this will erase some aspect of your affair. He needs counseling just to get a grip on himself. He can then explore whether he wants to continue the marriage in a rational manner once everything shakes out. This should take a few months to just get a grip on himself. You say you want to save the marriage. Well, be prepared to go through hell for some time. Also, you stubbornly refuse to take certain steps to help make reconciliation a possibility. I have listed them numerous times. These are steps that WSs typically take if they wish to reconcile. You sluff them off. I don't get it.


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## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> Perhaps you don't get it, so I will be clear. We are talking about scheduled sex and consequences for not. I don't give a single crap about what I have done he does not own my body period. So F off with that crap.


Yet it was OK, from his perspective, that you scheduled sex with your AP. You have to try and see things from his perspective for a change. As someone else said, your husband may be trying to lay "claim" again to your body. Your immediate response is, well, he doesn't own my body! But if married, you do, to a sense, own each other's rights to bodily and emotional connection.

You need to step back from absolutes and recognize shades of gray matter. 

You also need to reconsider whether you actually want to remain married. Whether you might have decided prior to your affair that things were over. It kind of sounds like you're testing out what it takes to reconcile, to figure out if it's worth the bother. That's not something someone would do who's truly interested in saving their family and marriage. You may already be done with things. If that's the case, the best thing to do is act upon it, let your family know it's time for you to move on, and let everyone work on making the best of it they can.


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## LATERILUS79

PurpleRoses said:


> If I am as hostile as some seem to think, I would have left him last night. I know what I did is traumatic and I am not judging him for any of the things he's asking for. Even the stuff that would have made me hysterical in another time. I'm just feeling overwhelmed and anxious. I'm scared about what he's going to say to me when he gets home or if he even loves me anymore. I know nobody would think so, but what I did traumatized myself too. I feel like a total failure to my family.


Maybe you should have left him.

The way you speak….. I can only imagine what your husband is going through right now.

If I was in his shoes, there is no doubt in my mind that you think you DESERVED this screw up. You “deserve” to have your little fun on the side. You know, live a little! Enjoy the passion in another man’s arms! Oh but wait, there’s more! Dear husband is definitely NOT allowed to do the same thing you did, correct? Only you are allowed that. He would be dropped in a heartbeat if he so much as thought of sleeping with another woman. As such, he is still living in a one-sided open marriage. 

then when you are done, you can go back to your husband and say, “sorry! I got it out of my system! I know you are hurting, but can you speed up the process of getting better? I want to get back to my normal life now. Oh yeah, I also DESERVE my normal life.”

yes. You come off very entitled.

I’ll tell you what though, your husbands rules? I don’t think he wants you to follow them. Many betrayed spouses come up with punitive rules. But your husbands rules are going the extra mile. 

I think it is because he WANTS you to give up. I think he sees the same thing everyone else here sees. You aren’t wife material. I think he’s making his rules extra special punitive because he is screaming at you, “GIVE UP. IT ISNT WORTH GOING THROUGH THIS. GIVE UP! Move on with your life and I’ll move on with mine.”


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## Zedd

PurpleRoses said:


> If I am as hostile as some seem to think, I would have left him last night. I know what I did is traumatic and I am not judging him for any of the things he's asking for. Even the stuff that would have made me hysterical in another time. I'm just feeling overwhelmed and anxious. I'm scared about what he's going to say to me when he gets home or if he even loves me anymore. I know nobody would think so, but what I did traumatized myself too. I feel like a total failure to my family.


FTR, I've never thought you were hostile. You haven't been overly forthcoming with information prior to today, and that agitates some people here. It's hard to help when we have to make assumptions and I feel some people have taken your curtness as uncaring. I've felt you were trying to gain comfort telling strangers about what is probably the biggest F-up of your life.

Also, you'd be well within your right to leave the marriage too. What you did was horrible. I think we all, including you, agree to that. That said, just because he wants to stay married doesn't mean that you have to do it. If you find his conditions unacceptable, you have every right to say no. Only you know what's ok for you. It's entirely possible you've damaged him to a place where you can't stay, even if that's what he wants.

That said, you've had time to get comfortable with what you've done. He's bound to say and do some outlandish things for a while. Try to keep that in mind - especially when he's being unreasonable. Who he is today, may not be who he is 30 or 60 days from now. I'm sure he'll say and do things he regrets through the process as well.

Good luck.


----------



## sideways

PurpleRoses said:


> Well I agreed to them, so what does it matter what I think? Yes, they are punitive.


Maybe it's just me, you say you "agreed to them" but then you follow that up with "so what does it matter what I think"? Is there a negative attitude behind that comment. Sounds very passive aggressive in my opinion.


----------



## SRCSRC

Gabriel said:


> We are seeing in real time why reconciliation after a physical affair like this is almost never successful.
> 
> I hear the anger in PR's posts. I'm sure some of that anger is because she's angry with herself and the situation she's put herself in. We are easy targets here- she can't yell at her H or kids.
> 
> She has every right to reject demands she's not able to accept. Then it's back on her H to decide from there if he can accept what she's willing to do, or to divorce her.


I agree, crazy demands should be rejected. Sex on demand is one of them. But it is up to the OP to be cognizant of the fact that her husband is a mess and will be making such demands for some time. She cannot get her back up. To be honest, she has been quite difficult in some areas. She won't do what most WS's that desperately want to reconcile simply do without complaint. I listed them several times and she never responds. I take that as a refusal. The reconciliation, if it happens, is going to be mostly on her terms. That is what I am getting from all her posts.


----------



## Casual Observer

sideways said:


> Maybe it's just me, you say you "agreed to them" but then you follow that up with "so what does it matter what I think"? Is there a negative attitude behind that comment. Sounds very passive aggressive in my opinion.


It simply sounds aggressive to me, and that's likely the same way it comes across to her husband as well. There's very little "passive" about it. She's setting up for a confrontation. Maybe that's all for the good; maybe her husband needs to see her in this light so he can let go. 

The biggest danger for OP is that she's going to re-write what went on in the past based upon her husband's current attitudes and actions. In order to rationalize that she's not a terrible person, she will look for ways to blame her husband then and now. This is a tough one because we're told we can't heal unless we love ourselves. What exactly does that mean in this context?


----------



## Arkansas

SRCSRC said:


> Your husband is a mess and his request borders on the irrational.


if he really requested that 

but yeah, when your world is shattered, when you don't sleep, don't eat, cry all the time and the very one person in the world who swore to always be faithful and true, and love you and honor you and hold your vows etc has destroyed everything 

you can be a little irrational


----------



## sideways

PurpleRoses said:


> It is really difficult, and I want to be open. We agreed that he can check my phone with me for a list of callers and texts, but not read them. I have a list of approved numbers and if I want to add one then I clear it with him first. If any number that he doesn't recognize shows up then he can either read it or check the number out. He doesn't have the right to my every private thought I share with my friends or if I visit an infidelity forum to vent; even if about him. I do have relationships with friends that go back to middle school, and he doesn't have the right to our thoughts. And he doesn't want that, he respects that much. I am ok with wanting to know where I am or where I'm going or who I'm seeing socially. Most times he's with me anyways, we don't have completely separate social lives. I'm bothered by some of the other things, and how he spoke to me. I still have a right to my feelings and being told that I can lose privilidges if I talk back to him for requesting a spot check really hurt me. Maybe that makes me a remorseless *** so be it.


In my opinion, you're relationship with your husband (given your attitude and things you aren't willing to do for him to rebuild his trust in you) isn't going to last.

I also think it will be you leaving him and not vice versa. I mean how dare he demand anything from you. It's VERY apparent you want this entire thing forgotten.

Do you need to be reminded of the things he wished you hadn't done?

Maybe you need to see your actions not just from your husband's eyes and people here on TAM but maybe you need to see how your kids look at you, your parents look at you, his parents look at you, the rest of your family, all your friends, coworkers, and see if you still have this attitude. What would they all say about your affair and your attitude since?

However we know you're not going to tell any of these people nor is your husband.

Why put your husband through more??

Funny how you committed the crime but also want to play judge and jury as well.


----------



## SRCSRC

Arkansas said:


> if he really requested that
> 
> but yeah, when your world is shattered, when you don't sleep, don't eat, cry all the time and the very one person in the world who swore to always be faithful and true, and love you and honor you and hold your vows etc has destroyed everything
> 
> you can be a little irrational


I am not making a judgment call on the BH. I am stating the obvious to the OP. I also told her it will be that way for a while and not to get her back up. I've been in BH's shoes. Right now, the OP is a poor candidate for reconciliation. As I have said before, if the marriage is to last, there will be much rug sweeping. OP is chomping at the bit at reasonable requests. She won't do other reasonable steps that I have listed ad nauseam. Someone will have to fold if the marriage is to continue and it won't be the OP.

I also find the OP's demand of only limited access to her emails absolutely unacceptable. Her right to privacy for the foreseeable future is gone and the BH should make that crystal clear to her. This should be non-negotiable. The BS needs honesty from the OP and until he is satisfied that she can be honest, there should be no right to privacy. If they do attempt reconciliation, the BS will eventually stop monitoring the OP. No one can do or is willing to do that for long. She doesn't seem to understand that point or doesn't care. It's a window into her thinking. Saving her marriage is not the priority she thinks it is. If the stakes were higher, such as the health of her children, she would acquiesce.


----------



## Lostinthought61

PurpleRoses said:


> It is really difficult, and I want to be open. We agreed that he can check my phone with me for a list of callers and texts, but not read them. I have a list of approved numbers and if I want to add one then I clear it with him first. If any number that he doesn't recognize shows up then he can either read it or check the number out. He doesn't have the right to my every private thought I share with my friends or if I visit an infidelity forum to vent; even if about him. I do have relationships with friends that go back to middle school, and he doesn't have the right to our thoughts. And he doesn't want that, he respects that much. I am ok with wanting to know where I am or where I'm going or who I'm seeing socially. Most times he's with me anyways, we don't have completely separate social lives. I'm bothered by some of the other things, and how he spoke to me. I still have a right to my feelings and being told that I can lose privilidges if I talk back to him for requesting a spot check really hurt me. Maybe that makes me a remorseless *** so be it.



you do realize that you are the one that cheated right.....if the show was on the other foot would you put up with same feedback you are giving him? i doubt completely...if this is the case why not just give him a hall pass to do the same that way either of you have the advantage.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

I'm reminded of the old saying," if you can't do the time......don't to the crime". You dealt a catastrophic blow to your marriage Purple roses. Fixing it will never be quick or easy. You don't sound contrite or remorseful enough for the work you have ahead of you. Your marriage is likely all but over wether you realize it or not. He is not going to want a life as a prison guard and he will eventually come to the realization that he will never trust you again.Yes, the sex demands are unreasonable and should not be given in to. Quite honestly, I can't understand him even wanting to touch you right now.


----------



## Trident

PurpleRoses said:


> It is really difficult, and I want to be open. We agreed that he can check my phone with me for a list of callers and texts, but not read them. I have a list of approved numbers and if I want to add one then I clear it with him first. If any number that he doesn't recognize shows up then he can either read it or check the number out. I'm bothered by some of the other things, and how he spoke to me.


If a number shows up that he doesn't recognize, then he asks you who it is and you TELL him.

Why the heck should he have to go play detective when you've got the answers right there?

You think this is some sort of silly game you're playing? You "don't like the way he spoke to you".. 

You are a piece of work. If this is even real I'm starting to wonder how anyone can be this clueless. I mean, I get there are remorseless cheaters who don't give a rat's ass about the betrayed partner but you seem to care to some extent and then you say this? Your words completely defy logic, common sense and reason.


----------



## SRCSRC

in orde


Trident said:


> If a number shows up that he doesn't recognize, then he asks you who it is and you TELL him.
> 
> Why the heck should he have to go play detective when you've got the answers right there?
> 
> You think this is some sort of silly game you're playing? You "don't like the way he spoke to you"..
> 
> You are a piece of work. If this is even real I'm starting to wonder how anyone can be this clueless. I mean, I get there are remorseless cheaters who don't give a rat's ass about the betrayed partner but you seem to care to some extent and then you say this? Your words completely defy logic, common sense and reason.


The thought that this entire story might be one giant troll has crossed my mind. She keeps coming back for abuse and throws out little tidbits to stir the pot, making sure not to answer certain questions, give full answers, or generally hide information. It took her several posts to admit that her indiscretion involved having sex with OM.


----------



## re16

Privacy in marriage is closing the door when you go to the bathroom, not that you get to keep things hidden from your spouse. Seems like you have things you want to hide, considering what you did, who cares what he reads.

The more and more I read this thread and what you are really saying, I don't think you have it in you to operate as spouse. If he did the things you are doing, you would be livid.

The thoughts you are having are all about how this effects you, not him. The things you think he is doing wrong pale in comparison to what you have done.


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## Willnotbill

How @PurpleRoses describes her husband's behavior is pretty much what many of us said it would be like earlier in this thread. She (and none of us) really has no idea what's going through his head. He's probably trying to be strong and hold it together in front of her and when he's alone he's probably a mess. I think his requests, no matter how strange or offensive to the OP, are normal for a betrayed spouse. I bet one of his main thoughts is if she did a certain sex act with her AP then she should do it for him whenever he wants. Sex on demand is not how a relationship should work but with what the husband is going through she needs to understand where that is coming from. 

I'm still not sure if the OP understands what her husband is going through. There really is nothing worse because all day, everyday, he is picturing his wife and AP together in every sex act possible. Its what he's thinking about when he goes to sleep and the first thing that enters his mind when he wakes in the morning.


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## Galabar01

Did your AP have a girlfriend/SO while you were having the affair? Have you told her?


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## Galabar01

Your husband should be able to read anything you write or receive. There should be no secrets in marriage under normal circumstances (let alone adultery).


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## ThreeHundo

PurpleRoses said:


> Look, I have to answer my phone when he calls and take a picture of who I'm with upon request. And spot checks, etc.
> 
> Basically the whole riot act.


That's the riot act? Really? Seem like totally reasonable rules to me, at least until he feels you are a safe partner.


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## jjj858

PurpleRoses said:


> When I started coming into work for a few days a week, I asked him if he wanted to come too. I didn't just run into him there. I'm a social person and my social life had become nothing, that's all, I wanted to see my friend. But something happened and I regret it.


It would appear you already had developed some sort of romantic feelings for him or had a crush on him at this point. It felt good to you and you got that butterflies feeling from him I bet. If a female co-worker asked me if I wanted to join her in our empty workplace I would assume it’s because she enjoys my company a lot and has some sort of feeling for me. I would definitely take it as a green light that she had romantic interest in me. Surely you can’t be oblivious to that fact. My friends are males. If I need a friend I call my bro’s. If my wife needs a friend she calls her girlfriends or texts them. We don’t maintain opposite sex friends outside of work. It’s one thing for you just to be work friends with this guy but you gave him all the green lights that you wanted more.


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## ThreeHundo

PurpleRoses said:


> It is really difficult, and I want to be open. We agreed that he can check my phone with me for a list of callers and texts, but not read them. I have a list of approved numbers and if I want to add one then I clear it with him first. If any number that he doesn't recognize shows up then he can either read it or check the number out. He doesn't have the right to my every private thought I share with my friends or if I visit an infidelity forum to vent; even if about him. I do have relationships with friends that go back to middle school, and he doesn't have the right to our thoughts. And he doesn't want that, he respects that much. I am ok with wanting to know where I am or where I'm going or who I'm seeing socially. Most times he's with me anyways, we don't have completely separate social lives. I'm bothered by some of the other things, and how he spoke to me. I still have a right to my feelings and being told that I can lose privilidges if I talk back to him for requesting a spot check really hurt me. Maybe that makes me a remorseless *** so be it.


It seems pretty clear to me that you just does not have the mind set that will lead to a successful reconciliation. So defensive and seemingly viewing everything through the "how it will affect me" lens. I really get a sense that you would be fine if the marriage ended.

The thing that has struck me throughout this entire thread was how incredulous you were to various questions you were getting. People were asking some pretty normal questions for a situation like this and you just came off so elitist every time. Like, "how could you possibly even pose such a question or make such a statement to me?!?!" Ummm, because you willingly went and had another man inside you multiple times, fully betraying your husband, that's how.


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## jjj858

PurpleRoses said:


> I did agree to most of it and tried to comprimise as well, but I don't have to like it. I'm in the wrong, I get that, I want our marriage to work, but I don't know if I have it in me. I've never answered to any man, he can ask my dad how much luck he had.


Well we definitely know of one man you had no problem answering to. This guy got the red carpet treatment from you.


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## karmagoround

From your latest posts, it sounds like you married a real man PurpleRoses! You might be smart in trying to keep him. From you words, I read that he want's you to be his wife. Old school style, least for a while. You could be honored. You could take it as a compliment, though he is rough talking with you. You have a man that is trying to take care of you. You said he is worried about you. He wants to make durn sure you get his points. Your family is in danger, he feels like he needs to be in the drivers seat to get you both off the rocks.

You could think of it like this; you didn't trickle truth him, so hopefully the overall pain will be less. But you put all the fuel into the fire all at once, he's letting off the steam in a big way and that might be good. Hopefully it will get better soon so you and he can both feel better.



PurpleRoses said:


> I need to work on myself too. And that means letting go of the need to control and, yes manipulate, things.


Your husband is going to help you with all of these things. You could relax and let him do it. I see value in his ideas that you shared. There is value in a loved one knowing where you are, these days especially. 

About having sex at a certain time of day. Would that have been at the same time of day you were with your AP? That time of day might be a trigger for him now, if that's it, then you could really help him during those times. Could you at least show up to comfort him? Take the arranged penance if you don't want the sex. You typed earlier in the thread that he wouldn't physically hurt you. Are you going to prepare things to make the moments romantic? 

Earlier you wrote that other people know. Does your husband know that other people know. I'm guessing that the asked who all knew. What you don't want is a few months down the line him find out that someone knew behind his back. 



PurpleRoses said:


> I appreciate all the concern about my professional life, but the truth is that if I want to cheat then I can cheat. It doesn't matter where I work or if I work. I need to not want to and if I can't have that then I shouldn't be married anymore.


This line that you wrote before. Maybe you were tired when you wrote it. The way it is written though is that you wanted to cheat, and you still want to cheat. And you need to not want to. I think that you meant to say that you have desire for men and you don't want that. My advice is when you have those thoughts, go ahead and bring your thoughts all the way to the end of the barrel so you can see that you don't want to shoot that gun. Desire is the root of all pain, after all. That's the teaching. 

You are typing out where you can improve. It's good that you acknowledge those items so they can be addressed. Whatever the outcome, you'll be in the best place possible with the continued honesty with yourself. Chin up best you can as you go through this journey. You are doing the best you can today in hopes for a brighter future. 

Hang in there PurpleRoses! His anger and sadness will come and go in waves. Lets hope this is the biggest wave.


----------



## GoldenR

PR...

If you prefer having sex with your AP over your BH, perhaps you should just file for D. 

Don't tell me you didn't schedule sex with your AP. Every time you guys agreed to meet up, you both knew there would be sex. And now that your BH is basically asking for the same treatment your AP got, you're offended? 

Smmfh...

AP asks for sex when you meet up, he gets it. (I bet he didn't even have to ask, more like you guys just knew it was going to happen and it happened.)

Your husband asks for sex, and that bastard doesn't own your body. 

You obviously sexually prefer your AP. Leave your H and go to him.


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## karmagoround

Hey PurpleRoses, It might get worse before it gets better. Hang in there and let him get the words out. Try to buy yourself time to process how to respond. He might be saying things he really doesn't mean, so maybe not take everything he says literally. When he's hot, maybe yes sir then and negotiate later. You've had your way with him before and if he still loves you then you still have leverage. 

You say you could loses privileges. You might have to miss out on something. What could that be in comparison to him missing out on your affections, which are of infinite value?

This month might be the worst, but it's how you come out on the other end of this that counts the most.


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## Dictum Veritas

PurpleRoses said:


> I've never answered to any man, he can ask my dad how much luck he had.


Time to accept, you're not the prize anymore. You are an adulterous wife, you should be kissing his feet for speaking to you. If I were your husband you'd have heard of me not from me. I have the history to back up these words.

What does your husband get for staying with you? A wife who has been had by another man and complains about a couple of restrictions and rules by her husband to curb future incidents. Nope, you are definitely not the prize anymore, he, a faithful husband and father is.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

PurpleRoses said:


> If I am as hostile as some seem to think, I would have left him last night.


Perhaps he'd be better of if you did. Who would want a woman so hostile that willingly gave herself to another man? I know I wouldn't want such a woman as my wife.


----------



## Slow Hand

Dictum Veritas said:


> Perhaps he'd be better of if you did. Who would want a woman so hostile that willingly gave herself to another man? I know I wouldn't want such a woman as my wife.


She came here in search of a quick easy fix. For which there is only one, divorce. 😀


----------



## Rus47

Arkansas said:


> Purple Roses
> 
> I hid a GPS tracker on my ex's truck, I also placed a secret recording device in her truck. That was invaluable in me finding out her continued cheating and lying. I also checked multiple times each day her phone records ..... every single thing that didn't make sense my mind raced to conclusions.
> 
> Its what position you've put him in - you understand that right? My ex started the whole "he's suffocating me" thing in counseling .... and I saw her point of view, she never saw mine because she had lived two lives and her mind had separated them. She wanted her adultery (either active or remembering it fondly) and she also wanted her husband/marriage/kids
> 
> can't have both
> 
> so let me add this too - forgiveness is Biblical. How I am supposed to forgive I have no idea because what my ex wife did haunts me every day. I thought about it for hours this morning, it never goes away. I'm damaged in who I was, and who I am now as well. My views/beliefs have been changed. I never asked for ANY of that - I was bomb shelled. But I know I'm supposed to forgive. I think the biggest reason I never did was my ex never really apologized. more importantly, she neve saw what she did as evil and sin. She would say she "temporarily compromised her values" ..... that's so simplistic its laughable.
> 
> if you are TRULY sorry, you'll do anything and everything your husband want and you'll WANT to do it. you will never stop apologizing and being regretful and showing remorse. You will spend the rest of your life knowing the terrible damage you've done and try to repair it
> 
> if you can do those things - he might can forgive .......... everyone DOES deserve it, but only if they are truly worthy of it


We have to forgive for *our* own mental health. Forgiveness sets the *VICTIM* free. Not forget, not reconcile, not let them victimize again. Cory Ten Baum, whose whole family was murdered by the Nazis for sheltering Jews, and who was accidentally released from concentration camp near end of the war, encountered one of the prison guards at a meeting years after the war. She recognized him when he approached her at her book signing. She realized she had to forgive his horrendous actions for *herself*, looked him in the eye, signed the book, and shook his hand.


----------



## Rus47

Arkansas said:


> When I read this -  ....... did you think he'd forgive and forget in 2 weeks ?
> 
> maybe 10 years ..... maybe 20 years .... and he'll never forget


There was another WW's thread where a month after D day she was asking the forum "How long do I need to be apologetic for my 6 month affair? I have already said was sorry.".


----------



## manwithnoname

@PurpleRoses you seem combative on here. You seem annoyed that your husband didn't just forgive you right away and everything can go back to normal. Is normal how things were when you needed a "friend"?

What is it you wanted to hear on this forum? 

What is it you expected to hear on this forum?

How did you expect your husband to react, and how did you want your husband to react? 

If you truly love your husband as you say, you should be grateful that he's still around trying to work things out. What would your level of respect for him be if he went straight to divorce, and what would it be if he forgave you right away?


----------



## Tested_by_stress

If she truly loved her husband, she wouldn't have had an affair. This is something she needs to be honest about with herself.


----------



## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> If I am as hostile as some seem to think, *I would have left him last night.* I know what I did is traumatic and I am not judging him for any of the things he's asking for. Even the stuff that would have made me hysterical in another time. I'm just feeling overwhelmed and anxious. I'm scared about what he's going to say to me when he gets home or if he even loves me anymore. I know nobody would think so, but what I did traumatized myself too. *I feel like a total failure to my family.*


It would have been best for all of you if you had left. You know that is where it will eventually end up because you resent him not just forgiving and continuing as if nothing had happened. The charade of the 20th anniversary party comes to mind. Your husband seems to be awakening to the situation he is in with an unrepentant, entitled, resentful wayward.


----------



## Rus47

Gabriel said:


> I do agree that being a sex slave is a harsh demand. In his shoes, I wouldn't have made that demand ahead of time. Instead if compelled I would have taken her to bed when I wanted to....and if I got rejected, there would have likely been a tough conversation. "Oh, if your boyfriend wanted it, you'd give it to him wouldn't you?" is likely what I would have said.
> 
> *PR has NO CLUE what this has done to her H.* It's a pain worse than anything, other than probably death of spouse or child. It hurt more than when my dad died.


And whats more she doesn't care.


----------



## Arkansas

Rus47 said:


> We have to forgive for *our* own mental health. Forgiveness sets the *VICTIM* free. Not forget, not reconcile, not let them victimize again. Cory Ten Baum, whose whole family was murdered by the Nazis for sheltering Jews, and who was accidentally released from concentration camp near end of the war, encountered one of the prison guards at a meeting years after the war. She recognized him when he approached her at her book signing. She realized she had to forgive his horrendous actions for *herself*, looked him in the eye, signed the book, and shook his hand.


she had 50 years to figure it out

me personally, I've had 2 1/2 years and I haven't .... the husband of Purple Roses has had what, 10 days ?


----------



## Rus47

Arkansas said:


> she had 50 years to figure it out
> 
> me personally, I've had 2 1/2 years and I haven't .... the husband of Purple Roses has had what, 10 days ?


Oh for sure, and what CTB did is not something I could have done in my lifetime.

She actually met the former SS officer at a German church after she preached a sermon on forgiveness in 1947, three years after her release from concentration camp. NOt 50 years later.


----------



## jparistotle

I might have missed this but how many times were you intimate with the AP. just once?


----------



## Willnotbill

jparistotle said:


> I might have missed this but how many times were you intimate with the AP. just once?


The OP said many pages back it was multiple times but I don't think she said exactly how long the affair lasted.


----------



## Asterix

I'm speaking in generalizations below. And I understand that "All generalizations are false"  So, take it with a (big) grain of salt.

A woman does not always value physical intimacy as much as a man does. However, she values emotional intimacy much more than a man does. Because usually it's the woman who decides when to be physically intimate and with whom. However, it's the man who decides when and whether to commit to his partner or not. So, he controls whether to commitment and whether to let it go. There's some aspect of the primal/lizard brain involved in there somewhere. I think because of this it is easier for a man to forgive and get over an emotional affair but it's not as easy to get over a physical affair. For a woman, it is not as easy to get over an emotional affair and understandably so. Because that means that there's someone else who her partner may commit to and leave her. 



PurpleRoses said:


> No, actually I don't have to agree to any demand. One of them was obligatory sex times. I'm sorry but nobody owns my body, I don't care what he or anyone else thinks about affairs, I will have sex if I feel like it and there is no more discussion on that. I can try to be more available but we are not keeping score or anything like that. I am willing to do a lot and agreed to a lot. Nobody, I don't care if there is a ring or not, has the right over my body. There is no debating this.





PurpleRoses said:


> Perhaps you don't get it, so I will be clear. We are talking about scheduled sex and consequences for not. I don't give a single crap about what I have done he does not own my body period. So F off with that crap.


Also, I understand and totally get where you are coming from when you say that (paraphrasing) "he does not have right to my body". I think having agency over one's own body is a sovereign right. 

You are married to your husband. I'm assuming that the marriage was a monogamous one (till you had your affair). So, in a monogamous relationship, it is agreed that the partners will fulfill each other's sexual needs (the "to have and to hold" part). So, if you are saying that you are not okay with being available to fulfill his sexual need, then maybe it is time to consider opening up this marriage so that he can fulfill his needs?

Think of his attitude towards you as a pendulum. When he trusted you, he gave you a lot of leeway because he trusted you to do right by him. Think of this as the pendulum at rest. Now that he knows what he know now, it does not look like he trusts you much anymore. So, I would compare his attitude towards you now to the pendulum swung and is at the opposite end. I think you'll experience these swings a few times over the coming days/months/years. As time goes on, it'll slow down and may not be as significant in magnitude. The issue is to be there to go through all these swings. 

I see some defensiveness in your replies here. It is possible that you are feeling like us internet strangers are ganging up on you. But please try to understand that people here are just trying to help you in their own way. A lot of people here have been where you are right now and where your husband is right now. So, it might help in considering their point of view. I agree that some of the replies here are more prescriptive and forceful, but please take what you think would work for you in your situation. Even if the stronger ideas give you a pause and make you think about your situation critically from a different point of view, then I think those suggestions have served their purpose. 

Coming back to what I mentioned above regarding the man deciding on commitment, it's possible that your husband would wake up one day and think that this is it and withdraws his commitment to the marriage. It takes two people to commit for a marriage/relationship to happen and it takes only one person to say no in order for the marriage/relationship to whither. 

So, I would like you to ask yourself this question: Why do you really, I mean really, want to stay in this marriage? What does that get you? Whatever that is, is that significantly (or marginally) better than all the things that your husband asking you to do? Is it because you fear being alone in your retirement? Or, is it because you are worried about what your kids' and family's reaction going to be when they find out?

You do not need to answer these questions here. But please think about them and see what it really is that you want out of this marriage at this point. 

Good luck. The coming days/months are going to be hard for you. So, you may not want to lose sight of what it is that you want out of your marriage while you are facing this ordeal. I'd also suggest to talk to your husband about seeing an individual counselor. I think he can air his grievances in front of the counselor and it could help temper his temper and his (possibly) irrational demands in the future. Also, have you considered keeping away the people who knew about your affair? Those people may not be good influence on your marriage anymore. Is it correct to assume that some of these people are your friends from middle school?


----------



## SRCSRC

While PR intellectually knew that her husband would take her affair hard and that there would be difficult times ahead, in practice her head is just spinning. If you look at her very first post, it sounds like she had some hope that her husband would get mad, forgive her and everything would then be reset as if the affair never happened. Regardless of what everyone told her, she could not imagine the reality that she now faces. Her statement that she doesn't know if she is up for what faces her in trying to reconcile speaks volumes. She states that she loves her husband. But, as in such instances, her husband was replaced by the AP as her romantic interest as long as the affair lasted. She says she no longer has those feelings for the AP but I don't know if that is true. She won't agree to cut off communication with the AP forever. She simply won't do it. She says that she has no need or desire to talk or see him. But I question if she is being honest with herself. I suspect that she might still, to some extent, be in the affair fog. She should be angry with the AP. While she is culpable, he was a willing participant. He was a predator that she let into her marriage. He is a rat. A POS. But we see no such outrage from her. We get nothing.

If she truly loved her husband AND is in love with him, she would be moving heaven and earth to save the marriage. She simply isn't doing it. Maybe she will get it if the destruction of her marriage becomes very real and imminent. Maybe not. She seems as if the important things must be on her terms or the hell with it. That is what I get when she says she might not be up for all this fallout.

Now, she may finally get it and understand the degree of damage she caused. She flat out says she couldn't handle such betrayal, so why can't she empathize with what her husband is experiencing? She says she is, but she is simply not doing it. You would think that she would realize that her husband is giving her one giant gift in not running straight to a lawyer and filing for divorce. But does she really want that gift? How badly? Things just won't reset in the near future to the pre affair marriage, if ever. That marriage, as she knew it, is dead. Can she be satisfied with what replaces it? If she doesn't really love her husband that much the answer is obvious.

At this point, I don't think PR is certain what she wants. I do suspect she is not being honest with herself. I don't think her love for her husband is strong and it has been that way for some time. She just wouldn't have had this affair if she felt otherwise. She needs to go IC with someone versed in infidelity. Hopefully, she does it with someone who won't facilitate a blame shift onto the husband. Some therapists automatically do that to placate their clients in order to get them to come back. I speak from experience.


----------



## jjj858

I found it extremely arrogant of her to say that if she wants to cheat she’d have no problem finding someone. She seems to be holding this over his head. I guess women know they have higher sexual market value. Men just don’t have that unless they are rich. Even being good looking isn’t enough for a man. A woman just has to show up. PR knows she can walk from the marriage and the AP will be there. She’s already got her fallback guy lined up. And if not him then someone else. Really it seems like this was an exit affair and she’s not willing to admit that to herself. She’s already disconnected from her husband and marriage, if she hadn’t she wouldn’t have had an affair. She’s already skipped the grieving the death of the relationship part by numbing it with the AP. The husband has had the rug pulled from under him and is in the thick of it. He’s left to deal with the painful and raw emotions and confusion. He’s left to deal with the sleepless nights, the not being able to eat, the mental movies and imagery, the endless questions, the tearing down of his identity as a man, the emasculation, and so on. She doesn’t have to experience any of that herself.


----------



## karmagoround

Hi again PurpleRoses
Being that your husband trusted you both when you introduced your ap as your friend. And being that your husband welcomed your friend into your home went out of his way to make your friend feel welcome; he might become motivated to talk to your AP to get his take on the affair. From what you typed, you didn't give your AP a justification for your affair. So your AP would hopefully back that up. Your AP might have feelings for you still and try to cover for you. Your AP might also have some fear, and thus have some lines that makes it sound like it's all your fault. Does your AP know things that your h does not know? Your husband might want all that information.

When you say that it's not about your AP, it comes across like you are trying to protect him. Watch out though because all three were acquainted, and that you kept going back to your AP for more, and that's going to make healing difficult for for your husband. With care, you might be able to help him through it.

For me, I'll never get over it, it's been decades, but I still love the lady for doing what she could to try to help me. I hope you do that for yours too. I couldn't recommit soon enough for her so mine became resentful and tried to hurt me again. In a way I don't blame her for the second time but in a way I do because she shot the legs out from under me then grew resentful that I couldn't walk with her through life. I wanted to. She was beautiful and was trying to give me her all. I wasn't purposely rejecting her, but she saw it that way and made sure I felt rejected too an her way out. But the world is full of crap guys and she tried again for me a few years later. Sadly, without me to take care of her, she'd gone down hill and wasn't my type anymore. 

I hope that you are both holding up okay and that your husband is still enthused about protecting you and saving your marriage.


----------



## californian

PurpleRoses said:


> Yes


You probably don’t realize that you don’t know what love is.


----------



## Divinely Favored

jjj858 said:


> Agree with all of this. I’d be thinking all the same things and wouldn’t be able to touch my wife ever again if she cheated. And I’d definitely have “more than words” with the OM. You’re gonna play a part in ruining my life and family and uprooting my life’s stability? Ok well there’s gonna be a price to pay for that.


Permanent limp.


----------



## Willnotbill

karmagoround said:


> Hi again PurpleRoses
> Being that your husband trusted you both when you introduced your ap as your friend. And being that your husband welcomed your friend into your home went out of his way to make your friend feel welcome; he might become motivated to talk to your AP to get his take on the affair. From what you typed, you didn't give your AP a justification for your affair. So your AP would hopefully back that up. Your AP might have feelings for you still and try to cover for you. Your AP might also have some fear, and thus have some lines that makes it sound like it's all your fault. Does your AP know things that your h does not know? Your husband might want all that information.
> 
> When you say that it's not about your AP, it comes across like you are trying to protect him. Watch out though because all three were acquainted, and that you kept going back to your AP for more, and that's going to make healing difficult for for your husband. With care, you might be able to help him through it.
> 
> For me, I'll never get over it, it's been decades, but I still love the lady for doing what she could to try to help me. I hope you do that for yours too. I couldn't recommit soon enough for her so mine became resentful and tried to hurt me again. In a way I don't blame her for the second time but in a way I do because she shot the legs out from under me then grew resentful that I couldn't walk with her through life. I wanted to. She was beautiful and was trying to give me her all. I wasn't purposely rejecting her, but she saw it that way and made sure I felt rejected too an her way out. But the world is full of crap guys and she tried again for me a few years later. Sadly, without me to take care of her, she'd gone down hill and wasn't my type anymore.
> 
> I hope that you are both holding up okay and that your husband is still enthused about protecting you and saving your marriage.


When the AP is known by the husband (or BW) it makes it worse. Not only was PR's husband betrayed by her but also by the AP. I think that anyone who hooks up with a married person and knows their spouse is a very low individual and POS. The is no excuse for that. I wouldn't be surprised if her husband wanted to have a conversation with the AP and it wouldn't be a pleasant one.


----------



## jsmart

Willnotbill said:


> When the AP is known by the husband (or BW) it makes it worse. Not only was PR's husband betrayed by her but also by the AP. I think that anyone who hooks up with a married person and knows their spouse is a very low individual and POS. The is no excuse for that. I wouldn't be surprised if her husband wanted to have a conversation with the AP and it wouldn't be a pleasant one.


It is completely F’d up that Purple plotted to have an affair with a guy that her husband knew and possibly broke bread with and was in their house. I wouldn’t be surprised if their kids knew this guy. Yes that makes him a real POS but it’s actually Purple who completely disrespected her family. 

I suspect that since OM knew and met her family and was still pursuing Purple after D day and said he doesn’t care about her husband knowing that OM is probably more of a fighter than her husband. So it’s doubtful that mr purple will confront OM.

It seems that purple has completely detached from her husband. She probably has residual feelings for OM that she’s denying to herself. From the details she has provided, it’s obvious that this was a premeditated affair. All that talk about loneliness and she was just looking for friendship is complete BS.

Of course she’s flattered that OM is blatantly willing to risk confrontation to be able to continuing F’ing her. His boldness is a complete contrast to her husband’s meek response of basically rug sweeping this for her, save TRYING to hold her accountable. But after only about a week, she’s already balking at his demands. She may have been able to play as a great wife and mother for many years but the isolation that this pandemic imposed, has brought out a side of her that probably lingered for a long time. That the love for her husband was not very deep and that with the kids approaching their exit, she yearns for the excitement of being a strong independent woman.

The feminist mindset drips throughout her protestations of her husband’s demands. In the beginning I saw some contriteness that gave me some hope for her poor husband but since her husband started to try to impose some consequences I have been floored by the callousness she displays here towards her husband. The guy is desperately flailing in the wind to try to save the marriage and keep the family intact. Purple on the other hand appears to be looking at the exit sign, as she weighs the cost and finds that her desire for the marriage is waning.


----------



## Robert22205

I apologize if you've answered this previously.

Is the OM still reaching out to you?
Do you hate the OM?
Did you say anything to the OM which indicated you were not happily married or thinking of divorce?

Could you identify the additional steps you've taken (or plan to take) to make yourself a safe partner (for your current husband or the next)? For example, books you've read or IC with a specialist in infidelity. 

Is your husband distancing himself from you emotionally or physically?


----------



## Robert22205

Does your employer have standards of conduct? If your employer learned of your affair, would there be disciplinary action (e.g., could you both lose your jobs)?

Is the OM at a higher level than you in the organization?


----------



## jjj858

jsmart said:


> It is completely F’d up that Purple plotted to have an affair with a guy that her husband knew and possibly broke bread with and was in their house. I wouldn’t be surprised if their kids knew this guy. Yes that makes him a real POS but it’s actually Purple who completely disrespected her family.
> 
> I suspect that since OM knew and met her family and was still pursuing Purple after D day and said he doesn’t care about her husband knowing that OM is probably more of a fighter than her husband. So it’s doubtful that mr purple will confront OM.
> 
> It seems that purple has completely detached from her husband. She probably has residual feelings for OM that she’s denying to herself. From the details she has provided, it’s obvious that this was a premeditated affair. All that talk about loneliness and she was just looking for friendship is complete BS.
> 
> Of course she’s flattered that OM is blatantly willing to risk confrontation to be able to continuing F’ing her. His boldness is a complete contrast to her husband’s meek response of basically rug sweeping this for her, save TRYING to hold her accountable. But after only about a week, she’s already balking at his demands. She may have been able to play as a great wife and mother for many years but the isolation that this pandemic imposed, has brought out a side of her that probably lingered for a long time. That the love for her husband was not very deep and that with the kids approaching their exit, she yearns for the excitement of being a strong independent woman.
> 
> The feminist mindset drips throughout her protestations of her husband’s demands. In the beginning I saw some contriteness that gave me some hope for her poor husband but since her husband started to try to impose some consequences I have been floored by the callousness she displays here towards her husband. The guy is desperately flailing in the wind to try to save the marriage and keep the family intact. Purple on the other hand appears to be looking at the exit sign, as she weighs the cost and finds that her desire for the marriage is waning.


This is it 100%, case closed.


----------



## Divinely Favored

PurpleRoses said:


> It really isn't minor, I didn't get into all of it, because it upsets me to even write.


It is your own doing...


----------



## Sufi22

PR - I don't know if you're still here. There is a lot of good advice here but a lot anger and pain, and it can feel overwhelming. You may find more constructive feedback if you post your story on the wayward section of surviving infidelity. com. 
You have a lot of work to do to make yourself a safe partner for your husband. Your postings show someone in both great pain and in denial of the even greater level of pain they caused. if you're really serious about help you need to get to a good therapist to understand yourself and why you behaved so destructively to your husband and your children. Posting on other sites can also give you additional perspective but only you can decide if you want to make this work with your husband.


----------



## Diceplayer

I believe PR has flown the coop.


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## Tested_by_stress

Diceplayer said:


> I believe PR has flown the coop.


Perhaps her home coop as well.


----------



## Divinely Favored

PurpleRoses said:


> Perhaps you don't get it, so I will be clear. We are talking about scheduled sex and consequences for not. I don't give a single crap about what I have done he does not own my body period. So F off with that crap.


The Bible says your bodies belong to each other. So if you claim to be Christian, then yes he does own your body, and you his...
Up until you gave yours away.


----------



## Davit Bek

PurpleRoses said:


> I did agree to most of it and tried to comprimise as well, but I don't have to like it. I'm in the wrong, I get that, I want our marriage to work, but I don't know if I have it in me. I've never answered to any man, he can ask my dad how much luck he had.


You didn't have to answer to your dad, because he is your dad. He'll love you unconditionally. Your husband won't, nor should he.

I can only imagine how painful it is to live with the thoughts. Reading how the poor guy gets paranoid, wants spot checks, or puts a black light to your clothes absolutely breaks my heart. Imagine having to have those thoughts in your head, fighting them, to only eventually become consumed by them. A prison guard can sometimes be less free than the prisoner. He lives with those thoughts every day. My God. I'm sorry, no one is worth going through all that.

For the first time, I hope he finds the strength leave this marriage for the sake of his own sanity. Maybe someday he can come back, but right now it's time to leave. This is your cross to bear. Shouldn't be his.


----------



## ElOtro

Dictum Veritas said:


> Not only reveal, but throw him under the garbage truck like trash. If you husband senses the slightest bit of fondness left for him, any effort you may want to implement to save you marriage is worth nothing. If this man is not nothing less than a snake to you; he'll kill whatever hope you have to reconcile with you marriage in future. If you have any fondness left towards the AP, you might as well research single bedroom apartments and cats for yourself.


The above is one frequently dimissed best points about betrayals.
Standing applauses!


----------



## ElOtro

SRCSRC said:


> All of what you indicate regarding physical separation did not stop you from making contact with the AP during the lockdown. If you were so protected from him how did you hook up with him? Not a good look for someone who wants to reconcile


This


----------



## ElOtro

Keepin-my-head-up said:


> ....telling him will only lighten you of your guilt and shame.


There should be more creative fraudulent narratives than this old cheap one.


----------



## ElOtro

uphillbattle said:


> This in the end is still more up to her husband, not a 100%.


True.
It´s not granted.
It just should.


----------



## ElOtro

PurpleRoses said:


> On top of that he had invited the guy from work who I had to uninvite.





Sufi22 said:


> Does your husband know you uninvited him?


Interesting...


----------



## ElOtro

VladDracul said:


> "Woe to him who offends a patient man who has just reached his limit.”
> ― Joyce Rachelle


This


----------



## marko polo

_I did agree to most of it and tried to comprimise as well, but I don't have to like it. I'm in the wrong, I get that, I want our marriage to work, but I don't know if I have it in me. I've never answered to any man, he can ask my dad how much luck he had._

Best course of action when married to such a spouse - jettison them. There is no partnership, much less a relationship possible save as a doormat to their whims. Let them go. More importantly set your self free.


----------



## ElOtro

PurpleRoses said:


> No, he was never going to show up. I briefly spoke to him and he just didn't say anything because he didn't want to ruin anything. He knows how I feel about the whole thing.


Your words show you still keep being loyal to your team with him.



PurpleRoses said:


> No, I'm not still friends with him, that isn't even a possibility after what happened. I am mature enough to be able to see him or briefly speak to him. I'm not on bad terms with him, just being friends never works after that.
> He isn't married and he's single. Before anyone starts with the how do you know stuff, I've known him for years and I've been to his place. I don't talk about him, because this isn't about him.


" I don't talk about him, because this isn't about him."
The "each one" individual perspective leads to nowhere else than to dissaster.
Regardless the "inner" personal motivations and as a fact, you both choosed each other against the other supposed-to- be-team, the one that your husband imagined he had with you.
So yes, because so and what I´ve quoted from you above, it´s not only but yes necessarily also "about him".




GusPolinski said:


> Be careful that you do not mistake naiveté for maturity — on either your part or your husband’s.
> It may surprise you to learn that, from your husband’s perspective, it’s at least in part about OM.


Agree with Gus.
"It may surprise you to learn that, from your husband’s perspective, it’s at least in part about OM."
At least a half of an undivisible pair.



Harold Demure said:


> There is another perspective to this.
> Does her husband’s relatively calm reaction to her disclosure mean that he is actually totally apathetic towards her cheating and really doesn’t care because he doesn’t love her?
> Indifference by a betrayed partner must be more worrying for a cheater than anger etc.
> Don’t know if there are any examples of BS indifference on here.


Sorry, the expression that says thet indiffernce is the opposite of love is, IMO an empty mantra.
Except, of course, that said appearent indifference is the facade of a calm tactic to DO something about..


----------



## ElOtro

CatholicDad said:


> Hey PR, not excusing you or anything- what you did was awful... but if it makes you feel any better... if hubby is a porn user like presumably the other 99% of men on the planet... he’s “cheated” too.... at least in his heart.


Not excactly a TJ.
Let´s say an anounce from our sponsors?

(Said from one that never cheated and to whom porn bores)


----------



## VladDracul

Davit Bek said:


> I can only imagine how painful it is to live with the thoughts. Reading how the poor guy gets paranoid, wants spot checks, or puts a black light to your clothes absolutely breaks my heart. Imagine having to have those thoughts in your head, fighting them, to only eventually become consumed by them.


Yet the cry is to confess to the betrayed spouse; he/she deserves to know.


----------



## ElOtro

uphillbattle said:


> It's a lack of self control


Yeah.
May be not like cheating but a bit like porn 😀


----------



## ElOtro

PurpleRoses said:


> You can't have revenge on someone you love; it's never enough and it's always empty in the end.


It seems you are also describing cheating, don´t you?


----------



## ElOtro

PurpleRoses said:


> Our relationship had turned inappropriate before that moment, but it was never destined to become physical.


That´s what happens with.......destiny.



PurpleRoses said:


> He doesn't trust me anymore.


Just bec<use you betrayed him????


----------



## karmagoround

Hi PurpleRoses,
Your story is remarkable because you ended it first, and cared enough to come here, take advice, and confess fully to her husband without having him find out first. I don't think I've read of a wayward being able having the courage to do that with all that you had to confess. I've had experience as BS in a similar situation, so your story compels me to write.



PurpleRoses said:


> Can I ask him to forgive me?


Can you ask him to forgive you?
In a way, you are answering the question for yourself. By your actions, you are asking your husband to forgive you.
Do you have the ability then, by your actions, to help your husband to forgive you? Even if it doesn't work out?
You'll both wish he could go back being the same person he was before, and it will hurt you that he won't be able to treat you like he did before. There is a danger that you will grow to resent that, so be mindful that his emotional and spiritual displacement doesn't cause you to do and say things to hurt him further. You say he is open to trying to work it out, and he's taking action, so he must be happy that you didn't just give up... and that answers your question about him loving you enough to forgive, maybe not fully, but already by measure.



PurpleRoses said:


> No, actually I don't have to agree to any demand. One of them was obligatory sex times. I'm sorry but nobody owns my body, I don't care what he or anyone else thinks about affairs, I will have sex if I feel like it and there is no more discussion on that. I can try to be more available but we are not keeping score or anything like that. I am willing to do a lot and agreed to a lot. Nobody, I don't care if there is a ring or not, has the right over my body. There is no debating this.


I hope that you didn't respond to your husband with that reasoning. I'm assuming you could have done whatever you wanted in scheduled sex time, including backing out if you wasn't feeling well. I feel it to have been a missed opportunity. You should ask for a do over with the conversation and knock his socks off.

It is kind of cute that he is putting restrictions on you. He must really love you. When you look at your new key charm, I hope that reminds you that you have someone that loves you.

I know it's got to be bad for all of you right now. I would think it impossible for your husband to "act normal", so I'm guessing that the kids have asked something. You want to be the one to tell your dad.

I'm imagining that you are in so much trouble with everyone that you will gain your measure of humility, which will be very valuable for you. Humility would make you much more attractive for your husband.

I'm disagreeing with some on this thread that you could easily skip away on your own. I'm hoping that you go ahead and become this new person that your husband wants for his wife. You don't want to be any resemblance of that same person you were. Keep your family together and not be estranged from your kids.

You wrote that your AP still want's you, and that you should be credited for breaking it off with him and having the willpower to end the affair. You found your conscience. Thank heavens. There is a rub in that though, because your husband is hearing you say that it would be easy for you to cheat. It's almost like taunting him. Your husband has to worry that you'll be sad living with a sad person but you have a happy fresh person at work that says something sweet to you every chance he gets. "Are you doing okay?" And you'll fall into his arms. You might not think that's possible. Your husband will know it to be.

I'm hope that you are still there with your family on a Saturday afternoon, trying to find a smile to brighten someone else's day.

Bring on 2022. It's got to be a better year.



> >edited for spelling


----------



## ElOtro

Laurentium said:


> and labelling it as "revenge" and "vindictive" means you're not seeing it from his point of view. That thing about _"it doesn't matter how justified you feel"_ applies both ways.


Well said
Bravo!


----------



## Luckylucky

It sounds like you have changed your tune, I can see some rage coming out. Bit of anger at some hard truths. I had supported your progress so far, but you are starting to sound justified and entitled. What is about this that’s making you so angry now?


----------



## ElOtro

PurpleRoses said:


> I don't give a crap where he goes.





PurpleRoses said:


> I did agree to most of it and tried to comprimise as well, but I don't have to like it. I'm in the wrong, I get that, I want our marriage to work, but I don't know if I have it in me. I've never answered to any man, he can ask my dad how much luck he had.





PurpleRoses said:


> It really isn't minor, I didn't get into all of it, because it upsets me to even write.


The above quoted paints a significative side of your "worldview".
Regardless what may happen since now and just IMO, this played a strong role in your betrayal. 
And, moreover, no matter if it actually works, it makes me seriously doubt about if such reconciliation would be desirable.
For both of you, but very specially for him.


----------



## ElOtro

Harold Demure said:


> She was right about one thing though, she will have sex when she feels like it. *The bit that is missing is “with whom she wants”.*


This.


----------



## Captain Obvious

She Gone!


----------



## uphillbattle

Captain Obvious said:


> She Gone!


Most likely. She is now getting the reality of what a R entails. It's hard when you realize that you actually need to give up something to earn trust back. It's a far cry from the BS just being mad but nothing actually needing to change even though the old way produced an affair. It becomes his need to feel secure and get a semblance of control of his spiraling emotions vs. her wanting it her way and **** effort. I don't necessarily think the op can be that selfless.


----------



## uphillbattle

edited for double post


----------



## ElOtro

Asterix said:


> "All generalizations are false"


----------



## ElOtro

Fixed


----------



## Asterix

ElOtro said:


>


I was waiting to see if anyone got that reference


----------



## VladDracul

PurpleRoses said:


> Perhaps you don't get it, so I will be clear. We are talking about scheduled sex and consequences for not. I don't give a single crap about what I have done he does not own my body period. So F off with that crap.


PR, I know its been 4 days since you declared the above but let me tell you what going through your husbands mind. What he is seeing is his wife who planned and structured her life to be with her paramour based upon the convenience of both your schedules but youre withholding from him because its your body. The boy is throwing out a test to see if youre willing to sacrifice or at least inconvenience yourself for him. You're going to fail the test mi lady. Hey scheduled sex may not be the most romantic thing you can do, but your willingness (or unwillingness) and participation ( or lack thereof) will prove a lot to the guy you said "for better, for worse, in sickness and in health, in joys and in sorrows, until death do we part" or somthing along those lines, to.. Is a little scheduled sex when you may not really be in the mood, all that bad if it returns to him and allows him to recapture something that he recently lost?


----------



## ElOtro

Asterix said:


> I was waiting to see if anyone got that reference


Threre are multipe sources for almost same saying.
From this one, frequenlty taken as the original (if such a thing is possible), to it´s interesting use by B. Russell more concerned with it´s logical auto refference.
You may also find less documented ones as by Mario Bunge (about the nature of scientific laws) and to G. Chaitin (on a better definition of ranndomness). Both last ones only availbable from class notes.


----------



## karmagoround

VladDracul said:


> PR, I know its been 4 days since you declared the above but let me tell you what going through your husbands mind. What he is seeing is his wife who planned and structured her life to be with her paramour based upon the convenience of both your schedules but youre withholding from him because its your body.


I think she is in a jam. I doubt they were able to keep the kids from learning of the affair and who it was with, and I'm sad to say that she underestimated the amount of incoming she will be experiencing. With her kids being mean to her, she might find herself looking forward to scheduled affection. And though her husband may have a full outline of her story, like you said Vlad, he's still filling in the blanks in his every idle moment, and I can tell you Vlad, it's bad. So, will her husband be there when she needs his arms?

I can guess what her husband is trying to fix with the scheduled sex times. Maybe simple timing issues? Would she be the type to withhold "privileges'" herself? His reasoning might be so sad, maybe its not about himself, he just want's to make sure that his wife is getting laid in hopes that she doesn't go out and get herself in trouble again. To make sure that her itch is well scratched.


----------



## colingrant

PurpleRoses said:


> It is really difficult, and I want to be open. We agreed that he can check my phone with me for a list of callers and texts, but not read them. I have a list of approved numbers and if I want to add one then I clear it with him first. If any number that he doesn't recognize shows up then he can either read it or check the number out. *He doesn't have the right to my every private thought I share with my friends or if I visit an infidelity forum to vent; even if about him. *I do have relationships with friends that go back to middle school, and he doesn't have the right to our thoughts. And he doesn't want that, he respects that much. I am ok with wanting to know where I am or where I'm going or who I'm seeing socially. Most times he's with me anyways, we don't have completely separate social lives. I'm bothered by some of the other things, and how he spoke to me. I still have a right to my feelings and being told that I can lose privilidges if I talk back to him for requesting a spot check really hurt me. Maybe that makes me a remorseless *** so be it.


1) You're in control of your body and call the shots. I agree with you concerning your husband's intimacy demands. You do not have to relinquish your body and soul. That's yours. However, one thing you should understand is what's behind your husband's demands. It's panic induced by his trauma in my opinion. If you look at it like he's panicking, you may be able to offer grace and compassion. 

Notice I'm not saying, to agree to his outlandish terms. What I'm saying is he has lost his wife to another man and in a panic driven state, seeks to reclaim ALL OF HER. Logic and reason is not part of a betrayed spouses thinking. They default to preserve, regain control and reduce there pain. These are the three things that lie at the source of his demands. Just know this. Again, though, acknowledging this doesn't mean you have to meet his mandates. It just offers you the ability to understand his highly vulnerable state and gracefully respond with compassion. 

2) It's not about your rights so much as it is about whether you are willing surrender your privacy right in order to help him help heal himself and feel safe in the relationship. Before he can recover, he has to feel safe that your AP is no longer part of the pact that he had with you. Your words are not enough because he already tried that and his trust in you was taken away by your infidelity. Your words of promise will not be adequate again, for some time. 

Having access enables him to achieve emotional stability, which is the first step to his recovery and the relationship's reconciliation if you wish it to happen. It's a sacrifice that is less about his demand of invading your privacy and more to do with your granting him unusual transparency to compensate for this unusual period of life post-infidelity. This is really not his call but yours. He's merely stating what he needs, but is your call to deliver what he needs, and it has to happen with humility, mercy, grace and patience to give him a chance of redeeming his rocked world. 

If you're not up to it, there's nothing you have to be ashamed. All it means is that while you love him, you don't love him enough to forego your privacy right. If unable to provide him with what HE FEELS he needs to feel safe without it being invasive and resentful, it won't work. Just to be clear, I AM NOT SUGGESTING YOU ARE being this way. 

Maybe you are, maybe you aren't. I'm just saying one cannot feel resentful of his need to be highly invasive of your privacy, as your affair is what created this and if your unwilling to relinquish your privacy to help heal the fracture you caused, then it simply isn't in the cards to happen.


----------



## gr8ful1

PR has left the building. Stick a fork in this thread.


----------



## jjj858

Yeah she’s gone like Hall and Oates.


----------



## uphillbattle

Almost as if what many said would happen did.


----------



## sideways

Would be curious to know if she's giving her husband the same attitude that she's shown here since she first posted?


----------



## syhoybenden

sideways said:


> Would be curious to know if she's giving her husband the same attitude that she's shown here since she first posted?


I would think that there should be no doubt of this. She is who she is.


----------



## ElOtro

sideways said:


> Would be curious to know if she's giving her husband the same attitude that she's shown here since she first posted?





syhoybenden said:


> I would think that there should be no doubt of this. She is who she is.


This


----------



## ArthurGPym

PurpleRoses said:


> No, actually I don't have to agree to any demand. One of them was obligatory sex times. I'm sorry but nobody owns my body, I don't care what he or anyone else thinks about affairs, I will have sex if I feel like it and there is no more discussion on that. I can try to be more available but we are not keeping score or anything like that. I am willing to do a lot and agreed to a lot. Nobody, I don't care if there is a ring or not, has the right over my body. There is no debating this.


With this attitude, not so much decrying your perceived feeling that your husband is controlling you, but your total and complete disregard for your husband's wants and needs is what will kill any hope of reconciliation. 

You need to give your husband a fair divorce and stop wasting his time. Stop wasting your own time. You are not cut out for marriage.


----------



## ArthurGPym

jjj858 said:


> Yeah she’s gone like Hall and Oates.


No I'll bet she's still lurking. I have to give her credit for hanging around this long.


----------



## SunCMars

PurpleRoses said:


> Perhaps you don't get it, so I will be clear. We are talking about scheduled sex and consequences for not. I don't give a single crap about what I have done he does not own my body period. So F off with that crap.


This one quote tells me she cheated and got back at her husband for him trying to control her body.
He wanted to make frequent love to her, she resented that, she views requested sex as a violation of her body.

There is this very strong and destructive *love/hate* relationship that PR has with *men.
She does not like to be touched, (prikly skin), except so, on her terms, with her in charge of the start-to-finish..

It started with her father who tried to control her (as fathers are apt to do, to protect them).
She hated that and rebelled.

When her husband tried to control her (asking for regular intimacy) she rebelled against him also.
_I am sure_ there are other dislikes that she has for her husband.

Having an affair with the OM was her way of showing her upright-tail, her defiant backside, her independence.
An angry and bitter woman lives in her mind, she too, is that _Martian_.



_*The Sun in her natal horoscope is likely, terribly afflicted, by Mars, or Uranus....... perhaps Pluto.



Are Dee-_


----------



## VladDracul

colingrant said:


> 1) You're in control of your body and call the shots. I agree with you concerning your husband's intimacy demands. You do not have to relinquish your body and soul. That's yours.


I don't mean any disrespect to anyone who argues "It's my body and I'm going to be in control of it". Unfortunately that argument seems to only have traction when it come to women and only in the context of sex and aborting children.
I own a body to and for an old dog more than seven decades old, it ain't too shabby since I've recently been is a "geriatric" commercial for the gym. If the doctor want to give me a flu shot, I can legitimately argue, "its my body and I ain't gonna do it". If however I f-up and get sentenced to 300 hours community service in the sanitation department, I cannot get away by arguing that, "Its my body and I'm ain't spending any of it hanging on the back of a garbage truck" Simply put, PR should accept getting off lite with only a little scheduled servicing of her husband, and be thankful it may not turn into a live alternating event before alls said and done..


----------



## SunCMars

With all's that bad in life, *we fight over little things, while the World, smolders and burns all about us.

There are millions of desperate feet looking for a better life, millions are starving.

Somewhere on this planet, over a thousand humans are murdered everyday.


_SunCMars-

*Some are these busy ants in an elephants cage. 
They never look up, only 2 inches ahead of them, only to stepped on and squashed, that one fateful day._


----------



## Arkansas

karmagoround said:


> I think she is in a jam. I doubt they were able to keep the kids from learning of the affair and who it was with, and I'm sad to say that she underestimated the amount of incoming she will be experiencing.


one of the kids will hate her far more than the others for destroying their father and for destroying their family unit

that's what PR chose when she went adultery route

its amazing that adulterers don't think of what they're doing .... the damage surround the people in their lives and lasts a lifetime. PR's kids will never get over/beyond it, it will impact them every days of their lives

truly sad


----------



## Cletus

SunCMars said:


> With all's that bad in life, *we fight over little things, while the World, smolders and burns all about us.


I offer the alternative view, popularized by NYT author Nicholas Kristof in an annual opinion piece, as a partial palliative.









Opinion | This Has Been the Best Year Ever (Published 2019)


For humanity over all, life just keeps getting better.




www.nytimes.com





"If you’re depressed by the state of the world, let me toss out an idea: In the long arc of human history, 2019 has been the best year ever.

The bad things that you fret about are true. But it’s also true that since modern humans emerged about 200,000 years ago, 2019 was probably the year in which children were least likely to die, adults were least likely to be illiterate and people were least likely to suffer excruciating and disfiguring diseases.

Every single day in recent years, another 325,000 people got their first access to electricity. Each day, more than 200,000 got piped water for the first time. And some 650,000 went online for the first time, every single day.
Perhaps the greatest calamity for anyone is to lose a child. That used to be common: Historically, almost half of all humans died in childhood. As recently as 1950, 27 percent of all children still died by age 15. Now that figure has dropped to about 4 percent.

“If you were given the opportunity to choose the time you were born in, it’d be pretty risky to choose a time in any of the thousands of generations in the past,” noted Max Roser, an Oxford University economist who runs the Our World in Data website. “Almost everyone lived in poverty, hunger was widespread and famines common.”

...


----------



## SunCMars

Cletus said:


> I offer the alternative view, popularized by NYT author Nicholas Kristof in an annual opinion piece, as a partial palliative.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Opinion | This Has Been the Best Year Ever (Published 2019)
> 
> 
> For humanity over all, life just keeps getting better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "If you’re depressed by the state of the world, let me toss out an idea: In the long arc of human history, 2019 has been the best year ever.
> 
> The bad things that you fret about are true. But it’s also true that since modern humans emerged about 200,000 years ago, 2019 was probably the year in which children were least likely to die, adults were least likely to be illiterate and people were least likely to suffer excruciating and disfiguring diseases.
> 
> Every single day in recent years, another 325,000 people got their first access to electricity. Each day, more than 200,000 got piped water for the first time. And some 650,000 went online for the first time, every single day.
> Perhaps the greatest calamity for anyone is to lose a child. That used to be common: Historically, almost half of all humans died in childhood. As recently as 1950, 27 percent of all children still died by age 15. Now that figure has dropped to about 4 percent.
> 
> “If you were given the opportunity to choose the time you were born in, it’d be pretty risky to choose a time in any of the thousands of generations in the past,” noted Max Roser, an Oxford University economist who runs the Our World in Data website. “Almost everyone lived in poverty, hunger was widespread and famines common.”
> 
> ...


I do not believe anything the _New York Times_ writes.

Why?

They know our country (USA) is in shambles and is trying to obfuscate this fact by writing puff pieces.

I am now a hopeless cynic.


_Are Dee-_


----------



## karmagoround

sideways said:


> Would be curious to know if she's giving her husband the same attitude that she's shown here since she first posted?


If the kids have to be told, she may be seeing the world in an entirely different light. 
It could be that the "privilege's taken away" is long gone from her mind, and her husband is having to suffer a further broken heart of having to protect his wife from her children. I could get bad enough where PR would just cut and run, start a new life, but would she ever hear from the kids? 

No matter how it's going down, her husband has suddenly found himself holding up the heavens and the earth.


----------



## Arkansas

karmagoround said:


> her husband is having to suffer a further broken heart of having to protect his wife from her children


why protect ?

she made all the decisions that led up to all of it ... she needs to bear the burden of her decisions, not him


----------



## Cletus

SunCMars said:


> I do not believe anything the _New York Times_ writes.


If the NYT tells you the sky is blue, then calling it red isn't their problem.


----------



## karmagoround

Cletus said:


> I offer the alternative view, popularized by NYT author Nicholas Kristof in an annual opinion piece, as a partial palliative.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Opinion | This Has Been the Best Year Ever (Published 2019)
> 
> 
> For humanity over all, life just keeps getting better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "If you’re depressed by the state of the world, let me toss out an idea: In the long arc of human history, 2019 has been the best year ever.
> 
> The bad things that you fret about are true. But it’s also true that since modern humans emerged about 200,000 years ago, 2019 was probably the year in which children were least likely to die, adults were least likely to be illiterate and people were least likely to suffer excruciating and disfiguring diseases.
> 
> Every single day in recent years, another 325,000 people got their first access to electricity. Each day, more than 200,000 got piped water for the first time. And some 650,000 went online for the first time, every single day.
> Perhaps the greatest calamity for anyone is to lose a child. That used to be common: Historically, almost half of all humans died in childhood. As recently as 1950, 27 percent of all children still died by age 15. Now that figure has dropped to about 4 percent.
> 
> “If you were given the opportunity to choose the time you were born in, it’d be pretty risky to choose a time in any of the thousands of generations in the past,” noted Max Roser, an Oxford University economist who runs the Our World in Data website. “Almost everyone lived in poverty, hunger was widespread and famines common.”
> 
> ...


2019. That was before they made their move. The trend is no longer improving. Murder rate in the US went up by 30% in the last year alone. Pretty much, everything else is getting worse. Globally, saboteurs are at the top so it's getting worse fast, everywhere.


----------



## karmagoround

PurpleRoses said:


> Perhaps you don't get it, so I will be clear. We are talking about scheduled sex and consequences for not. I don't give a single crap about what I have done he does not own my body period. So F off with that crap.


Her mind wants to go anywhere to hide from the awful subject at hand. Any small handgrip for justification is too tempting. Her whole argument was a diversion, I think. 

I don't think the scheduled sex idea was all that big of deal. A therapist might have suggested it. PR and some in the thread made it sound like scheduled rape. I'm assuming he isn't out to make her hate him. 

I'm trying to imagine what "consequences" might be. Turn off her wifi? Lose master bedroom privileges?


----------



## marko polo

karmagoround said:


> Her mind wants to go anywhere to hide from the awful subject at hand. Any small handgrip for justification is too tempting. Her whole argument was a diversion, I think.
> 
> I don't think the scheduled sex idea was all that big of deal. A therapist might have suggested it. PR and some in the thread made it sound like scheduled rape. I'm assuming he isn't out to make her hate him.
> 
> I'm trying to imagine what "consequences" might be. Turn off her wifi? Lose master bedroom privileges?


Rugsweeping will be the only acceptable remedy to her.


----------



## karmagoround

marko polo said:


> Rugsweeping will be the only acceptable remedy to her.


Her goal, as stated in her first post, is not to live a lie. The PR was proactive in coming here for advise. She gave her husband the whole story as she thought it was. That took guts and isn't rug sweeping. 

It's interesting that she describes herself as selfish. And she says that "she'll never answer to a man" as if that a wholesome quality. She is pouting over being treated like a teenager, not understanding that she is confused and needs help. I read it as almost romantic, her husbands ideas, yet she's turning her nose up at it. It's like everything PR posts connects in some way and this thread belongs in a textbook.


----------



## marko polo

karmagoround said:


> Her goal, as stated in her first post, is not to live a lie. The PR was proactive in coming here for advise. She gave her husband the whole story as she thought it was. That took guts and isn't rug sweeping.
> 
> It's interesting that she describes herself as selfish. And she says that "she'll never answer to a man" as if that a wholesome quality. She is pouting over being treated like a teenager, not understanding that she is confused and needs help. I read it as almost romantic, her husbands ideas, yet she's turning her nose up at it. It's like everything PR posts connects in some way and this thread belongs in a textbook.


Respect, compromise and sacrifice make a marriage work. She is capable of none of the above. She does not respect her husband and therefore will never love him. He is nothing more than a plow horse or appliance to her. She will not compromise nor will she make any sacrifice. Entitlement, narcissism, feminism, whatever her poison her marriage will likely not survive. Her husband may be taking it for now but everyone has their limits and he has tolerated the worst kind of betrayal. How long he continues to tolerate it with her superiority complex remains to be seen. Even if he does not leave and she breaks him completely she will not remain in the marriage. Broken toys get thrown away and replaced.

Like any other wayward she was reluctant to confess. So why does a person as selfish and unyielding as her bother to consider confession in the first place? Because they had no other choice. There was likely a risk of exposure and she wanted to get ahead of the narrative. Her image is everything. She suffered anxiety worrying about what her kids would think if they learned about her behavior. Her husband, not really a consideration. Take the family gathering as an example. The AP was invited and she saw no problem with that. *It took the husband asking her to uninvite her AP for her to take this action.*

She will continue to hold on to the marriage while sacrificing nothing on her end. She will very much earn the end result. If the roles were reversed you can bet she would show no mercy to her husband.


----------



## Rus47

marko polo said:


> Respect, compromise and sacrifice make a marriage work. She is capable of none of the above. She does not respect her husband and therefore will never love him. He is nothing more than a plow horse or appliance to her. She will not compromise nor will she make any sacrifice. Entitlement, narcissism, feminism, whatever her poison her marriage will likely not survive. Her husband may be taking it for now but everyone has their limits and he has tolerated the worst kind of betrayal. How long he continues to tolerate it with her superiority complex remains to be seen. Even if he does not leave and she breaks him completely she will not remain in the marriage. Broken toys get thrown away and replaced.
> 
> Like any other wayward she was reluctant to confess. So why does a person as selfish and unyielding as her bother to consider confession in the first place? Because they had no other choice. There was likely a risk of exposure and she wanted to get ahead of the narrative. Her image is everything. She suffered anxiety worrying about what her kids would think if they learned about her behavior. Her husband, not really a consideration. Take the family gathering as an example. The AP was invited and she saw no problem with that. *It took the husband asking her to uninvite her AP for her to take this action.*
> 
> She will continue to hold on to the marriage while sacrificing nothing on her end. She will very much earn the end result. If the roles were reversed you can bet she would show no mercy to her husband.


Believe OP last stopped by about a week ago. So we will never know how things turned out. Just guesses


----------



## marko polo

Rus47 said:


> Believe OP last stopped by about a week ago. So we will never know how things turned out. Just guesses


Yes I know. 

All that is left to do is engage with pleasant company and compare notes.


----------



## jsmart

This thread could really have helped purple if she were would have been open and less defensive. She received a lot of good advice and was overall treated fairly. While I give her props for confessing and for supposedly telling all, I too wonder was it a preemptive to avoid a possible exposure by either coworkers/ friends that knew or by the AP himself, who appears to be especially disrespectful of her husband.

But this thread is invaluable for BHs to get a glimpse into the heart and mind of a WW. Many of them grasp on to any tiny shred of regret on their WW’s part to muscle through R but are suppressing what their gut is telling them. That their WW is many times barely able to going through the motions. She will do a fake it to you make it for a short season but expects rug sweeping. To her BH she mouths that she’s sorry but her mind is defiantly like purple’s. The body that she willingly and very enthusiastically gave to OM is now hers and she is now an independent woman who doesn’t submit to any man.

That’s why a sexual PA is hard to recover from. Once a woman gives herself to another man, it’s hard for her to resubmit herself to her husband. she can’t because she doesn’t respect her husband and women can’t love a man she doesn’t respect.


----------



## Arkansas

karmagoround said:


> I'm trying to imagine what "consequences" might be. Turn off her wifi? Lose master bedroom privileges?


I'm guessing she's feeling smothered, she's lost her ability to sneak around undetected, she's not able to live her own life independent from her husband, that life she created in addition to the one she had

Consequences is really the inability to do things beyond what he can see


----------



## Arkansas

jsmart said:


> That’s why a sexual PA is hard to recover from. Once a woman gives herself to another man, it’s hard for her to resubmit herself to her husband. she can’t because she doesn’t respect her husband and women can’t love a man she doesn’t respect.


its the respect she's lost for herself, he children, her family and friends ......... she intentionally threw everything away for a fairy tale bang, for lust/desire and the thrill of sinning

now that's gone and reality exists, and its hard for an adulterer to cope with all the damage done so, they blame their spouses etc

classic denial


----------



## PurpleRoses

Trident said:


> If a number shows up that he doesn't recognize, then he asks you who it is and you TELL him.
> 
> Why the heck should he have to go play detective when you've got the answers right there?
> 
> You think this is some sort of silly game you're playing? You "don't like the way he spoke to you"..
> 
> You are a piece of work. If this is even real I'm starting to wonder how anyone can be this clueless. I mean, I get there are remorseless cheaters who don't give a rat's ass about the betrayed partner but you seem to care to some extent and then you say this? Your words completely defy logic, common sense and reason.


I just meant that I get calls from scammers and people trying to sell me things. If I know the number obviously I don't tell him to go figure it out.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Galabar01 said:


> Your husband should be able to read anything you write or receive. There should be no secrets in marriage under normal circumstances (let alone adultery).


The world doesn't revolve around the two of us. I have friends who confide their personal stuff to me and he doesn't have a right to that. My friends are important to me.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

PurpleRoses said:


> The world doesn't revolve around the two of us. I have friends who confide their personal stuff to me and he doesn't have a right to that. My friends are important to me.


My wife and I have no secrets between us. Her friends are important too, but I am the one and only person in the world she can tell anything. She trusts me to not be a gossip. I would think that is the best policy for a married couple.

edit... Have any of these secrets with friends been with a female friend cheating on her husband/SO?

Welcome back BTW, how are things going with your husband?


----------



## Dictum Veritas

PurpleRoses said:


> The world doesn't revolve around the two of us. I have friends who confide their personal stuff to me and he doesn't have a right to that. My friends are important to me.


No, any secrets between spouses is toxic and forms a breeding ground for secrets like your adultery to occur.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Robert22205 said:


> I apologize if you've answered this previously.
> 
> Is the OM still reaching out to you?
> Do you hate the OM?
> Did you say anything to the OM which indicated you were not happily married or thinking of divorce?
> 
> Could you identify the additional steps you've taken (or plan to take) to make yourself a safe partner (for your current husband or the next)? For example, books you've read or IC with a specialist in infidelity.
> 
> Is your husband distancing himself from you emotionally or physically?


He did, but whatever, I told him that it's never happening and to just move on. Maybe I should hate him, but I don't, I can't force myself to hate someone. Hate is an emotion and not a rational thought. I don't want to see him and I don't want to be friends with him, but I don't hate him. I'm not focusing on that because I said stuff I didn't mean and that I shouldn't have said. I can't take those things back, I wish I could but that just isn't how it works. 

I've seen a therapist. It's only been two sessions and I'm being positive about the potential. My husband doesn't want to see anyone, I don't want to push him, still I hope he comes around. We have been together a long time, I don't think it's bad to have a professional perspective. 

No, we haven't been fighting constantly. Just the one blow up and some little things. I'm trying to be better and to do what he's asking. I felt really humiliated and I got upset with him, but I know he's traumatized, just because I have feelings doesn't mean I don't know this. I don't feel great about being the cause of it it all. It's difficult that's all.


----------



## PurpleRoses

BigDaddyNY said:


> My wife and I have no secrets between us. Her friends are important too, but I am the one and only person in the world she can tell anything. She trusts me to not be a gossip. I would think that is the best policy for a married couple.
> 
> edit... Have any of these secrets with friends been with a female friend cheating on her husband/SO?
> 
> Welcome back BTW, how are things going with your husband?


It's not just about gossip. My friends trust me and I trust them, I've known some of them our entire lives. He doesn't care about the things we talk about, he doesn't even want to see those things. It's just one number he even cares about. These are not my secrets, my friends tell me stuff too.

And as for who knows, yes they know and he asked me who knows and I told him exactly and all he said was, "ok I can live with that." He didn't say anything else about it or give any hint that it's even an issue he's worried about.

Things haven't been that bad. I'm adjusting a bit, I went to the mall without telling him, I wasn't testing him, I just needed something and went out. I'm not going to do it again. We're going to his parents' house for Thanksgiving this weekend, so I'm looking forward to that.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Divinely Favored said:


> The Bible says your bodies belong to each other. So if you claim to be Christian, then yes he does own your body, and you his...
> Up until you gave yours away.


I don't claim to be a Christian.


----------



## re16

I commend you for continuing to post... you've taken a rightful beating on this thread.

Seems like your husband is doing the classic rugsweep. This is likely good for you for now as you get to move on without too much consequence (without him ending your marriage)....

But be forewarned, rugsweeps tend to show up down the road, maybe a couple of years, but it will gnaw at him and maybe backfire later.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Robert22205 said:


> Does your employer have standards of conduct? If your employer learned of your affair, would there be disciplinary action (e.g., could you both lose your jobs)?
> 
> Is the OM at a higher level than you in the organization?


It's not really a problem. I'm at a higher level in a compleltely different department. He doesn't rely on me for anything at work. Nothing is going to happen at work. There have been well known affairs here that nothing happened after the fact. There wasn't even anyone here to witness ours.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

PurpleRoses said:


> It's not just about gossip. My friends trust me and I trust them, I've known some of them our entire lives. He doesn't care about the things we talk about, he doesn't even want to see those things. It's just one number he even cares about. These are not my secrets, my friends tell me stuff too.
> 
> And as for who knows, yes they know and he asked me who knows and I told him exactly and all he said was, "ok I can live with that." He didn't say anything else about it or give any hint that it's even an issue he's worried about.
> 
> Things haven't been that bad. I'm adjusting a bit, I went to the mall without telling him, I wasn't testing him, I just needed something and went out. I'm not going to do it again. We're going to his parents' house for Thanksgiving this weekend, so I'm looking forward to that.


I actually meant have you ever kept the secret of an affair being conducted by a friend? Did any of your friends know about the affair while it was going on?

I understand that your friends confide in you, and that is the same kind of thing my wife tells me about. She doesn't just gossip to me. I'm actually her closest confidant. I was trying to get at the point that there really should be no secrets, of any kind, in a strong marriage. If your husband isn't interested, so be it.

Will you and him tell his parents and your parents about what you've done? I'm guessing your husband is so embarrassed he would rather not have them know.


----------



## PurpleRoses

BigDaddyNY said:


> I actually meant have you ever kept the secret of an affair being conducted by a friend? Did any of your friends know about the affair while it was going on?
> 
> I understand that your friends confide in you, and that is the same kind of thing my wife tells me about. She doesn't just gossip to me. I'm actually her closest confidant. I was trying to get at the point that there really should be no secrets, of any kind, in a strong marriage. If your husband isn't interested, so be it.
> 
> Will you and him tell his parents and your parents about what you've done? I'm guessing your husband is so embarrassed he would rather not have them know.


No, neither of them have had affairs, but I can't be a real friend if they couldn't tell me if they did. I don't mean to make light of this, but do you know what BFFs mean? 

There are other secrets besides affairs. Or maybe nothing that heavy, maybe we just want to talk about guys we think are hot. Doesn't mean we're looking to jump in the sack with anyone. And don't tell me you only find your wife hot, I won't believe it anyways.

He doesn't want his parents to know and I am going to respect that. My mom knows and she is less than impressed with me. If you think this place is harsh you haven't met my mom.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

PurpleRoses said:


> No, neither of them have had affairs, but I can't be a real friend if they couldn't tell me if they did. I don't mean to make light of this, but do you know what BFFs mean?
> 
> There are other secrets besides affairs. Or maybe nothing that heavy, maybe we just want to talk about guys we think are hot. Doesn't mean we're looking to jump in the sack with anyone. And don't tell me you only find your wife hot, I won't believe it anyways.
> 
> He doesn't want his parents to know and I am going to respect that. My mom knows and she is less than impressed with me. If you think this place is harsh you haven't met my mom.


LOL, yeah mom's can be brutally honest. Yes, I know what a BFF is and mine is my wife and I'm hers. We've been together for 34 years, since we were 16/19 respectively. I truly don't have a better friend than her and I believe she feels the same way.

I definitely recognize other woman that are "hot", but my wife is the only one for which I have genuine sexual desire. I feel like those kinds of discussions, if it involves a person within reach, meaning not a celebrity or similar, that is a dangerous path to head down.

The reason I was asking about your friends and their knowledge of the affair, as it was happening, is because they are not good friends if they did anything other than discourage the affair and implore you to stop it. Same is true if they were in an affair you were aware of. If you did anything other than discourage it you have to do some soul searching as to why you think it would be okay to do that? How "good" of friends are you if you hide or worse yet encouraged an affair that had no possible outcome other than blowing up the marriage and family? Prior to the affair, did you and your BFFs ever discuss how hot your affair partner was?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

PurpleRoses said:


> No, neither of them have had affairs, but I can't be a real friend if they couldn't tell me if they did. I don't mean to make light of this, but do you know what BFFs mean?
> 
> There are other secrets besides affairs. Or maybe nothing that heavy, maybe we just want to talk about guys we think are hot. Doesn't mean we're looking to jump in the sack with anyone. And don't tell me you only find your wife hot, I won't believe it anyways.
> 
> He doesn't want his parents to know and I am going to respect that. My mom knows and she is less than impressed with me. If you think this place is harsh you haven't met my mom.


Also wanted to say that I'm glad to hear that you told your mom and sounds like she does not approve in any way. It doesn't hurt to have another person to hold you accountable.


----------



## PurpleRoses

BigDaddyNY said:


> LOL, yeah mom's can be brutally honest. Yes, I know what a BFF is and mine is my wife and I'm hers. We've been together for 34 years, since we were 16/19 respectively. I truly don't have a better friend than her and I believe she feels the same way.
> 
> I definitely recognize other woman that are "hot", but my wife is the only one for which I have genuine sexual desire. I feel like those kinds of discussions, if it involves a person within reach, meaning not a celebrity or similar, that is a dangerous path to head down.
> 
> The reason I was asking about your friends and their knowledge of the affair, as it was happening, is because they are not good friends if they did anything other than discourage the affair and implore you to stop it. Same is true if they were in an affair you were aware of. If you did anything other than discourage it you have to do some soul searching as to why you think it would be okay to do that? How "good" of friends are you if you hide or worse yet encouraged an affair that had no possible outcome other than blowing up the marriage and family? Prior to the affair, did you and your BFFs ever discuss how hot your affair partner was?


I'm not blame sharing here. I'm responsible for my own actions. Nobody's perfect and I'm not going to start throwing judgement all around. They're my friends and I love them no matter what.


----------



## Galabar01

PurpleRoses said:


> No, neither of them have had affairs, but I can't be a real friend if they couldn't tell me if they did. I don't mean to make light of this, but do you know what BFFs mean?
> ...


You didn't answer whether you told them about your affair while it was active. Did you tell your friends about your affair while it was going on or before your husband found out?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

PurpleRoses said:


> I'm not blame sharing here. I'm responsible for my own actions. Nobody's perfect and I'm not going to start throwing judgement all around. They're my friends and I love them no matter what.


This is the same issue as you not wanting to go the extra mile to break contact with your AP. You should not be friends with people that encourage an action that puts your marriage and family in jeopardy. How can you not see that? Have you encouraged their affairs? (I'm assuming they had them and you know about it). Would you cover crime for your friends, or vice versa? Cheating is a crime against your marriage and your family and all that know and encourage it are accomplices.

You are solely to blame, but just like parolees that get out of jail, they aren't to be around anyone (fellow criminals) that could push them into recidivism. Do you really think it is a good idea to be friends that allow your to engage in self destructive behavior.


----------



## RebuildingMe

PurpleRoses said:


> Or maybe nothing that heavy, maybe we just want to talk about guys we think are hot.


This is what you are talking about and keeping secret from your husband? A couple of weeks after you cheated with presumably one of these "hot" guys you spoke to your friends about? Oh boy, your husband is in for more hurt. 

It's great you came back to the thread. It's disappointing to see you came back with the same attitude though.


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## SRCSRC

Regarding your friends that know of your affair: If they condoned or encouraged that behavior you must cut them out of your life. Did they do that?


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## PurpleRoses

Galabar01 said:


> Redacted


Look I'm not trying to push anyone's buttons. I say one thing and then something completely different than what I meant is taken from it. Like this stuff with my friends, it just isn't what it's being taken as. The level of planning here is just not at the level some think, I've said so and everyone just went off on me. Yes, I gave him the opprotunity but I didn't have this plan I was following. I wasn't calling my friends and saying today might be the day he makes his move. It's not the first time I've ever flirted, I just got caught up in it this time and it went overboard. I wasn't being coached and nobody, including myself, thought it would actually happen. I don't say that to absolve myself, just that the way it is. Everyone seems to think there was an ordered plan and I was just waiting for what I knew was coming. 

I get it, I am a button pusher and you're right at this point I'm just bothering people or defending myself or explaining what I meant. I could have just said I have private conversations but then it's all nothing is private. There's nothing to he gained from this considering my husband doesn't even want to read these things so I'm arguing about nothong just for the sake of it. So enough is enough.


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## BigDaddyNY

SRCSRC said:


> Regarding your friends that know of your affair: If they condoned or encouraged that behavior you must cut them out of your life. Did they do that?


That is exactly what I was getting at too. Any person that doesn't condemn and discourage an affair is not a real friend, period. I suspect she will put up the same resistance as she did when told about going absolute no contact with the AP. It seems to me she is placing greater value on her job and her friends than her marriage and family. Her husband seems to be okay that her close friends know about the affair, but I wonder if he knows they were aware while it was going on and did nothing to stop it. He might feel differently about that.


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## PurpleRoses

BigDaddyNY said:


> That is exactly what I was getting at too. Any person that doesn't condemn and discourage an affair is not a real friend, period. I suspect she will put up the same resistance as she did when told about going absolute no contact with the AP. It seems to me she is placing greater value on her job and her friends than her marriage and family. Her husband seems to be okay that her close friends know about the affair, but I wonder if he knows they were aware while it was going on and did nothing to stop it. He might feel differently about that.



And this isn't pushing my buttons? Comparing my childhood friends to a job? Or some guy who I don't even speak to? No matter how many times I've made that clear.


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## BigDaddyNY

PurpleRoses said:


> Look I'm not trying to push anyone's buttons. I say one thing and then something completely different than what I meant is taken from it. Like this stuff with my friends, it just isn't what it's being taken as. The level of planning here is just not at the level some think, I've said so and everyone just went off on me. Yes, I gave him the opprotunity but I didn't have this plan I was following. I wasn't calling my friends and saying today might be the day he makes his move. It's not the first time I've ever flirted, I just got caught up in it this time and it went overboard. I wasn't being coached and nobody, including myself, thought it would actually happen. I don't say that to absolve myself, just that the way it is. Everyone seems to think there was an ordered plan and I was just waiting for what I knew was coming.
> 
> I get it, I am a button pusher and you're right at this point I'm just bothering people or defending myself or explaining what I meant. I could have just said I have private conversations but then it's all nothing is private. There's nothing to he gained from this considering my husband doesn't even want to read these things so I'm arguing about nothong just for the sake of it. So enough is enough.


Why in the world are you flirting with other men when you are married? Caught up THIS time?

See, this is why these women are not really a friend. They are enabling you to engage in behavior that a married woman should not be doing. 



PurpleRoses said:


> And this isn't pushing my buttons? Comparing my childhood friends to a job? Or some guy who I don't even speak to? No matter how many times I've made that clear.


I'm honestly not trying to push your buttons. I was merely stating your apparent placement of value. Obviously your childhood friends are more valuable than your job and your job is more valuable that the AP, but where do your husband and family fall in that scale? Are they above everything else? Is your marriage more or less valuable than your friends?


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## BigDaddyNY

You keep side stepping questions, I think because you may not want to face the reality of the answers. This is real simple, please answer these directly.

Did any of your friends know about the affair while it was going on?
Did any of your friends encourage your affair, or even think it was okay?
Did any of your friends discourage the affair and advise you to end it?
Did you or any of your friends say negative things about your husband to rationalize the affair?


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## Galabar01

What did you share with your friends about the affair partner before, during, or after the affair? What were their responses before, during, and after the affair?


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## Galabar01

PurpleRoses said:


> ... It's not the first time I've ever flirted...


mundane


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## BigDaddyNY

Galabar01 said:


> mundane


More like disgusting. I bet she would be thrilled if those same words came out of her husband's mouth.


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## PurpleRoses

BigDaddyNY said:


> You keep side stepping questions, I think because you may not want to face the reality of the answers. This is real simple, please answer these directly.
> 
> Did any of your friends know about the affair while it was going on?
> Did any of your friends encourage your affair, or even think it was okay?
> Did any of your friends discourage the affair and advise you to end it?
> Did you or any of your friends say negative things about your husband to rationalize the affair?


I am not side stepping. Just anything I say will be taken to the point of hyperbole. Nobody encouraged this or waited with baited breath. I told her and said I would never ever do it again, I didn't even feel like I was having an affair. Yes, I realize how dumb thag sounds. All she did is kept it to herself, like any friend would. She told me that I better not F up my kids over this and was not any sort of cheerleader. We talked about issues in my marriage, but so what? We didn't huddle around a cauldron and talk about all the ways to hurt my husband. I'm not a puppet and I wouldn't be friends with anyone pouring poison in my ear. She listened to me. Most importantly, my husband doesn't have it in for either of them or have the expectation that either would betray my trust to him. There isn't anything here. Just like when I say I have no contact with that guy, there isn't anything else to defend. I agree with no contact and not being friends. I'm no presenting him with a letter, which is just inviting drama anyways, so that is the same thing.


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## PurpleRoses

BigDaddyNY said:


> More like disgusting. I bet she would be thrilled if those same words came out of her husband's mouth.


I said that I have problems and that the problems didn't start with the affair. I'm going to therapy to work on them. I never condoned anything I did, I only said that I didn't think we were going to be screwing in his front hallway. I don't think anyone goes from zero to that. It's a poor pattern of behavior and it hurts people I love. I can't even say that without being told I don't love anyone, so whatever.


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## BigDaddyNY

PurpleRoses said:


> I am not side stepping. Just anything I say will be taken to the point of hyperbole. Nobody encouraged this or waited with baited breath. I told her and said I would never ever do it again, I didn't even feel like I was having an affair. Yes, I realize how dumb thag sounds. All she did is kept it to herself, like any friend would. She told me that I better not F up my kids over this and was not any sort of cheerleader. We talked about issues in my marriage, but so what? We didn't huddle around a cauldron and talk about all the ways to hurt my husband. I'm not a puppet and I wouldn't be friends with anyone pouring poison in my ear. She listened to me. Most importantly, my husband doesn't have it in for either of them or have the expectation that either would betray my trust to him. There isn't anything here. Just like when I say I have no contact with that guy, there isn't anything else to defend. I agree with no contact and not being friends. I'm no presenting him with a letter, which is just inviting drama anyways, so that is the same thing.


I think the letter idea is a mistake in your case. It is positive that they weren't being toxic to the marriage. If they discourage it then they are friends. 



PurpleRoses said:


> I said that I have problems and that the problems didn't start with the affair. I'm going to therapy to work on them. I never condoned anything I did, I only said that I didn't think we were going to be screwing in his front hallway. I don't think anyone goes from zero to that. It's a poor pattern of behavior and it hurts people I love. I can't even say that without being told I don't love anyone, so whatever.


It is a very bad pattern. Have you discussed this with your friends and let them know you should not be engaging in any of the flirting and hot guy talk? 

Love is a nebulous term. You really don't love someone with all your heart then go out and do something that you know will devastate them. Please realize that is where those comments about not loving him come from. In addition to thing things you did with your AP I bet you had some very non-loving things to say about him to. Where do you think those thoughts came from? A place of deep love and devotion?


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## Blondilocks

You still haven't said what it is you hope to get out of this thread. You periodically drop in and post some new tidbits to keep the thread going. Is this helping you? Are you getting the attention you wanted?


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## Dictum Veritas

I hear some talking about breaking contact with the AP and how the friend who knew but did not inform the husband is a BFF with whom a secrecy bubble away from the husband and marriage will be maintained, but don't worry, it's nothing serious.

I don't hear anything about actions you, @PurpleRoses , are taking to help your husband through this or become a wife actually worth keeping. Some therapy, but nothing self-sacrificing or overly inconvenient if your husband did not insist on it.

It's all still purely about you. Unless your focus shifts to trying to mend the wounds you inflicted on your husband by repeatedly stabbing him in the back and twisting the knife, I'd suggest you rather pursue the single life where you can be as self-centered and without inconvenience as you want to be without any adult responsibility as you seem to find this quite distasteful if it doesn't line up with your wants and wishes.


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## PurpleRoses

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think the letter idea is a mistake in your case. It is positive that they weren't being toxic to the marriage. If they discourage it then they are friends.
> 
> 
> 
> It is a very bad pattern. Have you discussed this with your friends and let them know you should not be engaging in any of the flirting and hot guy talk?
> 
> Love is a nebulous term. You really don't love someone with all your heart then go out and do something that you know will devastate them. Please realize that is where those comments about not loving him come from. In addition to thing things you did with your AP I bet you had some very non-loving things to say about him to. Where do you think those thoughts came from? A place of deep love and devotion?


Emotions are complex, ok. I've also spent my life with him, he's the father of my children and I love him. I'm a flawed person, but he loves me too, I know he does, so that's why it's worth it. I've said bad things about my parents too, but I have never questioned my love for them. Heck, I've had fights with my friends where all sorts of hurtful things were said but I still love them. He wants me to get better too.


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## Rus47

PurpleRoses said:


> I've seen a therapist. It's only been two sessions and I'm being positive about the potential. My husband doesn't want to see anyone,* I don't want to push him, still I hope he comes around*. *We have been together a long time*, I don't think it's bad to have a professional perspective.
> 
> *No, we haven't been fighting constantly. Just the one blow up and some little things.* I'm trying to be better and to do what he's asking. I felt really humiliated and I got upset with him, but I know he's traumatized, just because I have feelings doesn't mean I don't know this


You have mentioned having been together for a long time (20 years?) in several of your posts. It is like the "sunk cost" fallacy. Somehow we think if we have a big investment in something, we need to just hang onto it even if it is past the "best if used by date." Sometimes relationships are like leftovers. They get stale and eventually need to go into the garbage. Have you both just grown tired of the "marriage"? Just not willing to admit it?

From your perspective, how long does your husband have to right his ship and return to a normal relationship with you as things were pre-affair? Do you have a timeline in your own mind? Is it weeks, months, or years? Have you shared with your husband your expectations of him and that if those expectations aren't met in a timely manner, you will divorce him and move on with your life?


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## SRCSRC

Here is an easy one, PR. Did any of your friends tell you to stop the affair immediately after you began sleeping with him? For a harder question, but should be answered. What did you tell your friends about the OM before you initially had sex with him? Did you tell them you liked him and were attracted to him? What was their response? Did any of them warn you to stop what you were doing or it would lead to trouble? These questions are pertinent to find out exactly what role your friends played in your affair. Yes, they played a role, regardless of what you say or think.

Finally, has your OM tried to contact you since you told him not to come to the 20th anniversary party?


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## Rus47

BigDaddyNY said:


> definitely recognize other woman that are "hot", but my wife is the only one for which* I have genuine sexual desire*. I feel like those kinds of discussions, if it involves a person within reach, meaning not a celebrity or similar, that is a dangerous path to head down.


I guess am *really *old fashioned. But I don't think it appropriate for a spouse discussing how hot a member of the opposite gender is with their friends. Conflicts with the "forsaking all others" clause IMO. Would PR be fine overhearing her husband talking with his buddies about how hot PR's female friends were?


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## Arkansas

PurpleRoses said:


> I told her and said I would never ever do it again, I didn't even feel like I was having an affair. Yes, I realize how dumb thag sounds. All she did is kept it to herself, like any friend would. She told me that I better not F up my kids over this and was not any sort of cheerleader.


I bet you told her you'd never do it to begin with too didn't you?

That you didn't feel like you were having an affair ... did you think about your affair partner when with your husband? Did you think about your husband when you were with him ?

My ex said she created two worlds - never mixing the two. 



PurpleRoses said:


> I'm a flawed person, but he loves me too, I know he does, so that's why it's worth it.


He loved who you were. 

You were a very different person - you were honest, trustworthy, honored your vows, sincere, you didn't lie ......... you decided to make choices that changed all that and, changed who you were into who you are now.

Will your husband love this new you? What do you think?


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## AttaBoy

PurpleRoses said:


> The level of planning here is just not at the level some think, I've said so and everyone just went off on me. Yes, I gave him the opportunity *but I didn't have this plan I was following*. I wasn't calling my friends and saying today might be the day he makes his move. It's not the first time I've ever flirted, I just got caught up in it this time and it went overboard.


Here's the crux of why you are getting so much push back here. Today you believe you did not have a plan. But the truth is you did. It may take you months or years to realize or admit to it, but the good people of TAM who have been on the receiving end of betrayal know you better than you know yourself.
And did you ever create an offer him the timeline I and so many others told you to? The proof of your plan is there. The steady progression. Heck, just what you have shared here already is enough to show you had a plan. You were going to dinner, just weren't sure you'd have the appetite for dessert. But you did!


----------



## SRCSRC

PR: You did reveal something about yourself that may have led to your affair. You stated that you flirted with men in the past. OK. Well, evidently you continued this behavior with the OM. That ultimately led to your affair. Will you, at least, take from this mess the need to never flirt with a man who is not your husband ever again?


----------



## PurpleRoses

SRCSRC said:


> PR: You did reveal something about yourself that may have led to your affair. You stated that you flirted with men in the past. OK. Well, evidently you continued this behavior with the OM. That ultimately led to your affair. Will you, at least, take from this mess the need to never flirt with a man who is not your husband ever again?


Yes, I am in therapy about it. I didn't mention it so I would look better. Nobody needs to say "ah ha, you're a bad person" for me to get that. Or tell me how I was feeling during this entire time. In my muddled head, this was just flirting that had gone further than other flirting. That isn't a justification, it's just the truth. The things I did, which I am responsible for, led to the affair, but I couldn't have made that into a thought while it was happening. Certainly not one coherent enough to tell anyone I was planning something. I admitted all the flirting, even the times he accused me and I denied in the past 20 years. I don't mean going to the houses of men, I just mean maybe having a few drinks and laughing a bit much at stuff that isn't even funny. None of it ever got this serious, but it was all wrong. I apologized for it and committed to working on myself.


----------



## SRCSRC

Suggestion to you PR: There is a forum called SurvivingInfidelity.com. There is a famous wayward who had a similar affair. She loved her husband but got involved with another man for several months. She was caught by a family relative who saw her and the OM holding hands walking down the street. The message got back to the BH and all hell broke loose. They have reconciled. You can contact MrsWallopped, the WW, through that forum. She can relate to what happened to you and what she went through to save her marriage. I know you are in therapy, but it would help give you perspective if you heard her story and what she did to make her BH feel whole again.


----------



## Gabriel

Rus47 said:


> I guess am *really *old fashioned. But I don't think it appropriate for a spouse discussing how hot a member of the opposite gender is with their friends.


Most guys I know do this. Even married ones.


----------



## ArthurGPym

> and everyone just went off on me...


No they haven't. You have been treated fairly well here. Take your story to Reddit and experience some real vivisection. 

I think the biggest problem with you is that you have this blasé, matter-of-fact way of writing. It's not wrong, it just annoys people. There are some holier-than-thous on this site site who like to proselytize, you are not going to escape it. But you make it ten times worse when you act like a defensive ninny every time someone asks you a simple question. Seriously. Sometimes when I read your responses I envision a gum-chewing, 14-year old teenage girl arguing with her mom over curfew.


----------



## Gabriel

PR, it sounds like you are doing what you need to be doing. Going to therapy, helping your H out by doing what he asks to make him feel safer, etc. That's all good.

I also feel that you are in a lot of pain. I can't put my finger on it exactly. But my take (bear with me here) is that your life/marriage was "meh", "okay" nothing was wrong with it but it wasn't quite fulfilling enough for you. And you escaped that, had some thrill, and now, you are back to the mundane. Not only that, but along with the mundane is now this extra yucky stuff that requires you to follow rules you hate following, and your husband is now upset, whereas before, he was just fine. You also have the danger of being outed to people that have respected you and loved you.

So you are worse off than you were before this started. And that can be depressing. Especially when you didn't love your life before.

And now all these internet strangers are here ripping you apart, making you answer questions you don't want to answer. Or putting words in your mouth.

Tracking so far?

So at this point you have to decide between two options, really. And the sooner you make the decision the better you will feel. You either have to decide to eat the ****e sandwich you made, and do it lovingly, willingly, and with full vigor to save and reignite your commitment to your marriage/family/life with new appreciation (since your H is giving you the rare gift of potentially staying married in this situation). 

Or, you need to just end it and start fresh.

When I read your words, I feel like you haven't decided yet. You're going along with option 1, but it's not lovingly, willingly or with full vigor. It's by force. And that won't work.


----------



## Mr. Nail

PR, I agree that many here are "making you an offender for a word". That is leading you to not trust them. Fair enough.
But, as I believe your intentions are good, I believe there's are as well.
Finally, I live with a woman who I think doesn't love me. It is not a good life for me.


----------



## VladDracul

PurpleRoses said:


> I never condoned anything I did, I only said that I didn't think we were going to be screwing in his front hallway. I don't think anyone goes from zero to that. It's a poor pattern of behavior and it hurts people I love. I can't even say that without being told I don't love anyone, so whatever.


The revelation in your statement et al, is that you went from mild flirting to screwing in the hallway without looking and evaluating the direction you were heading. What did you learn about yourself, especially when you play too close to the flame?


----------



## Blondilocks

SRCSRC said:


> Suggestion to you PR: There is a forum called SurvivingInfidelity.com. There is a famous wayward who had a similar affair. She loved her husband but got involved with another man for several months. She was caught by a family relative who saw her and the OM holding hands walking down the street. The message got back to the BH and all hell broke loose. They have reconciled. You can contact MrsWallopped, the WW, through that forum. She can relate to what happened to you and what she went through to save her marriage. I know you are in therapy, but it would help give you perspective if you heard her story and what she did to make her BH feel whole again.


I don't think Mrs. W. will be of much help. The last I heard, Mr. W. has entered the plain of lethal flatness and neither he nor his wife are happy about it. Five years down the drain.


----------



## SRCSRC

Blondilocks said:


> I don't think Mrs. W. will be of much help. The last I heard, Mr. W. has entered the plain of lethal flatness and neither he nor his wife are happy about it. Five years down the drain.


Interesting, but how do you know that? I must have missed something. Mr. W had to swallow one hell of a sh.t sandwich. But, it looked like he was doing it. Mr. PR will, undoubtedly, have to do the same. It looks like there will be a hell of a lot of rug sweeping in this instance.


----------



## re16

Mr. PR's reaction, or lack there of, makes you kinda wonder if perhaps he isn't that upset because he has done something similar.


----------



## SRCSRC

re16 said:


> Mr. PR's reaction, or lack there of, makes you kinda wonder if perhaps he isn't that upset because he has done something similar.


We don't know much about Mr. PR. PR is tight-lipped on everything. She is very sketchy about details. I wouldn't assume much about him. It does seem that he is taking all of this quite well right now. But we are receiving this information through the filtered posts of PR.


----------



## Galabar01

PurpleRoses said:


> . I didn't think we were going to be screwing in his front hallway...


Subtle. Try not to jump the shark...


----------



## Mr. Nail

Blondilocks said:


> plain of lethal flatness


I had to look that up.
Would you like me to send you a postcard picture?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rus47 said:


> I guess am *really *old fashioned. But I don't think it appropriate for a spouse discussing how hot a member of the opposite gender is with their friends. Conflicts with the "forsaking all others" clause IMO. Would PR be fine overhearing her husband talking with his buddies about how hot PR's female friends were?


For the record, I don't discuss it. I'm just saying that I do notice when I see an exceptional good looking woman. I don't ogle her or whip out my hone and send a text to a friend about her. 

I don't think she would like it at all.


----------



## Asterix

@PurpleRoses , I've got to ask you this: What is it that you really want to get out of this thread?


----------



## Blondilocks

SRCSRC said:


> Interesting,* but how do you know that? * I must have missed something. Mr. W had to swallow one hell of a sh.t sandwich. But, it looked like he was doing it. Mr. PR will, undoubtedly, have to do the same. It looks like there will be a hell of a lot of rug sweeping in this instance.


His wife's posts in the past few months.

eta: her thread in the ww forum Dec, 2020


----------



## Rus47

Asterix said:


> @PurpleRoses , I've got to ask you this: What is it that you really want to get out of this thread?


PR's first post asked


PurpleRoses said:


> Can I ask him to forgive me? Or do I just tell him and let him express his feelings?


For doing something that "involved the F word" ( and she calls the people here squeamish about sex lol ) evidently in the OM's apartment entryway.. Those questions were answered ( some yes some no ) pages back. Most of the advice has offended her in one way or another and she has rejected it. Regarding Mr PR, as far as she is concerned her affair is his problem and he will just have to live with it (or not). He has no "right" to anything from her.


----------



## SRCSRC

Blondilocks said:


> His wife's posts in the past few months.
> 
> eta: her thread in the ww forum Dec, 2020


It doesn't look like you can access members on SI anymore unless you pay $50 per year.


----------



## Blondilocks

SRCSRC said:


> It doesn't look like you can access members on SI anymore unless you pay $50 per year.


Just go to the wayward forum and go back in time 'til you see her name as the thread starter - somewhere around pg 7. It will have a lock symbol.


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## Robert22205

It takes time to heal from infidelity and there's no shortcut. 

I'm concerned that your husband's refusal to do IC may be motivated by an attempt to minimize his pain. His reaction is perfectly normal and expected - but it leads to reliving this nightmare again in the future when he leasts expects it. And it could derail your R. Ask your therapist for suggestions on helping your husband get himself into IC. 

I apologize again if you've covered this but have you had a chance to read:

"Not Just Friends" by Dr Shirley Glass. I suggest both you and your husband read it. Among other things it identifies how 'good' people end up cheating.

and

"How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful" by Linda MacDonald


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## Rus47

I cannot imagine that R has chance of snowball in a hot place for the PRs.


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## HappilyMarried1

PurpleRoses said:


> Or maybe nothing that heavy, maybe we just want to talk about guys we think are hot. Doesn't mean we're looking to jump in the sack with anyone.


This is true usually but in your case you did. So just think after what you husband has been through based on what you told him that does not even compare to the mind movies he has going on in his head and imagination just keep that in your mind before you lash out at him about something just remember none of this would have to happen if not for your actions. Best of luck!


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## ElOtro

Gabriel said:


> PR, it sounds like you are doing what you need to be doing. Going to therapy, helping your H out by doing what he asks to make him feel safer, etc. That's all good.
> 
> I also feel that you are in a lot of pain. I can't put my finger on it exactly. But my take (bear with me here) is that your life/marriage was "meh", "okay" nothing was wrong with it but it wasn't quite fulfilling enough for you. And you escaped that, had some thrill, and now, you are back to the mundane. Not only that, but along with the mundane is now this extra yucky stuff that requires you to follow rules you hate following, and your husband is now upset, whereas before, he was just fine. You also have the danger of being outed to people that have respected you and loved you.
> 
> So you are worse off than you were before this started. And that can be depressing. Especially when you didn't love your life before.
> 
> And now all these internet strangers are here ripping you apart, making you answer questions you don't want to answer. Or putting words in your mouth.
> 
> Tracking so far?
> 
> So at this point you have to decide between two options, really. And the sooner you make the decision the better you will feel. You either have to decide to eat the ****e sandwich you made, and do it lovingly, willingly, and with full vigor to save and reignite your commitment to your marriage/family/life with new appreciation (since your H is giving you the rare gift of potentially staying married in this situation).
> 
> Or, you need to just end it and start fresh.
> 
> When I read your words, I feel like you haven't decided yet. You're going along with option 1, but it's not lovingly, willingly or with full vigor. It's by force. And that won't work.


While I don´t fully agree with your diagnosis I do concur with the second part of your post, the one starting with "So at this point you have to decide between two options, really."
Even so (and hoping to be wrong), I´m not convinced that her present "worldview / attitude" makes both options to be materially open ones.


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## jsmart

Blondilocks said:


> I don't think Mrs. W. will be of much help. The last I heard, Mr. W. has entered the plain of lethal flatness and neither he nor his wife are happy about it. Five years down the drain.


She is not a FWW that should be held up as some model of a reformed WW. Her affair was so stereotypically wanton. She is a WW that I think would have monkey branches if she didn’t have a sister that didn’t strongly give her the wake up speech, which I’m sure included letting her know this guy is not going to want a mother of 5. 

Also that OM was only separated and was still trying to work on his marriage. The conversation that W had with the OBS on speaker phone with mrs W listening in was BEAUTIFUL. Mrs W tried to apologize and said “I didn’t know he was still married.” The OBS wasn’t having it and told her , no but you knew you were you whor.. Man that was so good. If the other guy was really available and would have been willing to accept her with the kids, she would have bounced.


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## AttaBoy

PurpleRoses said:


> I only said that I didn't think we were going to be screwing in his front hallway. I don't think anyone goes from zero to that.


Oh, FFS! I missed this earlier. Did you really go at it as soon as you entered his place? Skipped right to dessert? PR, that screams of being primed and ready for action. There isn't an ounce of "I didn't plan for anything" in this. 
Do you see, your husband needs all of the truth or you are still living a lie. Still deceiving. Still denying him his agency. 
FWIW, I believe you have been treated more even handedly than most WWs that come to these pages with textbook affairs like yours.


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## jjj858

Is screwing in the hallway something that really happened or was she saying that nothing like that happened? Her writing style is confusing. Like this was seriously an “Unfaithful” movie style raunchy affair?


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## VladDracul

3J, It is confusing. I said earlier in the thread where her writing style has a bit of a male font to it.


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## SRCSRC

jsmart said:


> She is not a FWW that should be held up as some model of a reformed WW. Her affair was so stereotypically wanton. She is a WW that I think would have monkey branches if she didn’t have a sister that didn’t strongly give her the wake up speech, which I’m sure included letting her know this guy is not going to want a mother of 5.
> 
> Also that OM was only separated and was still trying to work on his marriage. The conversation that W had with the OBS on speaker phone with mrs W listening in was BEAUTIFUL. Mrs W tried to apologize and said “I didn’t know he was still married.” The OBS wasn’t having it and told her , no but you knew you were you whor.. Man that was so good. If the other guy was really available and would have been willing to accept her with the kids, she would have bounced.


You are probably right. Nevertheless, Mrs. W seems to have done way more to reconcile than PR seems to be willing to do. But, Mrs. W was more immersed with her OM. Looking how she worked to try and save her marriage might open PR’s eyes.


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## Sufi22

SRCSRC said:


> You are probably right. Nevertheless, Mrs. W seems to have done way more to reconcile than PR seems to be willing to do. But, Mrs. W was more immersed with her OM. Looking how she worked to try and save her marriage might open PR’s eyes.


Sorry for the T/J. I'm surprised by the reaction some people are having to Mrs Wallop and I would suggest anyone not familiar with her thread and her husband's go on survivinginfidelity and read each of their threads themselves. Her affair was right down the middle of what we see here, friendship turning to EA then to PA - a typical Cake Eater who fully compartmentalized her life until she got caught. Then a struggle with limerence and and empathy which each of them chronicled with a level of open self reflection and detail that I've rarely seen on the months I've been reading. Her posts as a Wayward freely acknowledge her flaws and struggle for insight and his story of betrayal and slow reconciliation is as honest a chronicle of his struggle as any. I don't think Mr Wallop has retreated to the plain of lethal flatness. He's clearly had ups and downs in the R but they are both still active over there. - END T/J:

My 2c is the threads are definitely worth checking out.


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## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> There are other secrets besides affairs. Or maybe nothing that heavy, maybe we just want to talk about guys we think are hot. Doesn't mean we're looking to jump in the sack with anyone. And don't tell me you only find your wife hot, I won't believe it anyways.


Do you believe your husband hangs around with friends who check out women and rate them? Maybe he does, but a whole lot of us don't. And if someone does go a bit uncomfortably far, if we start wondering about what sort of mind-movies might be going on, we bring the conversation back to reality. In another post you referenced drinking and flirting. Can you see why it sounds like you're hanging out with the wrong crowd? For many of us men, if we had a married friend who was getting friendly with women at a bar or restaurant, and drinking besides, we'd have a role to protect him, to keep him from going too far.

Going too far. It's really easy to do if you don't have hard boundaries. Hard boundaries don't mean "no sex with anyone but your spouse." Hard boundaries mean actively avoiding situations where you could get carried away, where you fantasize about what might be while your inhibitions are down (drinking does this, duh). 

I don't think there's much I can tell you that you already don't know. You just seem to resist the obvious. You're going to go through a ton of therapy that you wouldn't have had to had you simply understood basic limits and why they exist. Instead you're going to get analyzed and search your past and look for all sorts of things that helped create the version of you that broke your vows. It's really a waste. Most therapy represents a huge waste of time and money that didn't have to be... if only people had paid a bit more attention to the basics. Been a bit more honest with themselves and their spouses. 

The discussion you need to have with your husband is about the sort of boundaries and honesty that are required to make a long term relationship work. You can love someone like no other, but still, without boundaries and honesty, run aground on the rocks.


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## Rus47

AttaBoy said:


> Oh, FFS! I missed this earlier. Did you really go at it as soon as you entered his place? Skipped right to dessert? PR, that screams of being primed and ready for action. There isn't an ounce of "I didn't plan for anything" in this.
> Do you see, your husband needs all of the truth or you are still living a lie. Still deceiving. Still denying him his agency.
> FWIW, I believe you have been treated more even handedly than most WWs that come to these pages with textbook affairs like yours.


To be fair, I think the "F word" in the entryway wasn't her first rodeo. That was when she first went to his apartment to "work with him" and ended up doing something that involved the "F word". The entryway was after they already had plenty of practice. BTW, she never answered how many times they had been together before she started this thread. Not that it matters. Once or a thousand times, same same.


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## BigDaddyNY

Casual Observer said:


> Do you believe your husband hangs around with friends who check out women and rate them? Maybe he does, but a whole lot of us don't. And if someone does go a bit uncomfortably far, if we start wondering about what sort of mind-movies might be going on, we bring the conversation back to reality. In another post you referenced drinking and flirting. Can you see why it sounds like you're hanging out with the wrong crowd?* For many of us men, if we had a married friend who was getting friendly with women at a bar or restaurant, and drinking besides, we'd have a role to protect him, to keep him from going too far.*
> 
> Going too far. It's really easy to do if you don't have hard boundaries. Hard boundaries don't mean "no sex with anyone but your spouse." Hard boundaries mean actively avoiding situations where you could get carried away, where you fantasize about what might be while your inhibitions are down (drinking does this, duh).
> 
> I don't think there's much I can tell you that you already don't know. You just seem to resist the obvious. You're going to go through a ton of therapy that you wouldn't have had to had you simply understood basic limits and why they exist. Instead you're going to get analyzed and search your past and look for all sorts of things that helped create the version of you that broke your vows. It's really a waste. Most therapy represents a huge waste of time and money that didn't have to be... if only people had paid a bit more attention to the basics. Been a bit more honest with themselves and their spouses.
> 
> The discussion you need to have with your husband is about the sort of boundaries and honesty that are required to make a long term relationship work. You can love someone like no other, but still, without boundaries and honesty, run aground on the rocks.


Been there, done that. On more than one occasion myself and other friends have stopped a couple of our fellow friends from doing something stupid that would have ruined their marriages and in one case could have ended a career. That is what real friends do.


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## jsmart

BigDaddyNY said:


> Been there, done that. On more than one occasion myself and other friends have stopped a couple of our fellow friends from doing something stupid that would have ruined their marriages and in one case could have ended a career. That is what real friends do.


That’s what I’ve read and experienced in real life. I have had to give the straight talk to a friend that was heading down the road to adultery. 

But I find that women are more likely to egg a friend on to go for it or encourage their friend to just check it out. I know there are good women that will pull a friend to the side give her a stern talk but it just seams that they are less apt to confront and more apt to encourage. Maybe they don’t want to be seen as judgmental so are not likely to speak up. It’s not helped that our society’s programming in the last decade seems to glamorize female promiscuity and especially adultery.


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## karmagoround

PurpleRoses said:


> He's never suspected anything. He just thinks I've been feeling a bit depressed.


I'm guessing that you know now that he was suspecting. For example: when he questioned you on the frequency of your texts with your AP, you threw him off. 



PurpleRoses said:


> Also, I don't know what goes on between other people but we never talked about my husband. We certainly never mocked him, and I don't find it amusing.


My thoughts,
Your husband might at times imagine the worst. And I think that's something you should go after in counseling because that does need to be remedied if you are to stay living with him. 

In a different context on not talking about your husband:
So many ladies I've met lead with a conversation about their husband. Very married. If you're AP was your "friend", I'm assuming that you would have shared all the fun things that you and your family are doing. I'm assuming that you was avoiding conversations about your family because you wanted to keep the attention of your AP. 

Hindsight helps clarify things. I'm guessing that you are already there when it comes to the obvious errors.


----------



## jjj858

So if she had did have raunchy hallway relations with the OM I imagine it was incredibly exciting and naughty to her and she got a rush from the OM that she doesn’t get from H and never ever will again. When her and H engage again I’d imagine she would find it incredibly boring. I mean, she wouldn’t have stepped out on the marriage if she wasn’t bored to begin with. 

If I was to talk to the H I’d tell him…realize, you’re trying to drive a totaled car. Why stay with someone when you’re no longer their #1 ? She’s not yours anymore and no amount of marriage counseling or advice will make her feel what she just doesn’t feel anymore.


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## ArthurGPym

jjj858 said:


> So if she had did have raunchy hallway relations with the OM I imagine it was incredibly exciting and naughty to her and she got a rush from the OM that she doesn’t get from H and never ever will again. When her and H engage again I’d imagine she would find it incredibly boring. I mean, she wouldn’t have stepped out on the marriage if she wasn’t bored to begin with.
> 
> If I was to talk to the H I’d tell him…realize, you’re trying to drive a totaled car. Why stay with someone when you’re no longer their #1 ? She’s not yours anymore and no amount of marriage counseling or advice will make her feel what she just doesn’t feel anymore.


I agree. She was bored and desired some strange.


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## BigDaddyNY

She did have sex in the hallway from the sounds of it. Story of the first time they had sex...



PurpleRoses said:


> ... I had been to his place before without anything happening, it's not like he asked me to come to his place for sex. I had worn a sundress and sandals, somehow forgetting how cold the AC is at work. I told him I was going home because I was cold and we got to talking and he said to just come work at his place for the afternoon. I went and set up my laptop and so did he and I even did some work. I had a glass of red wine, but only a glass. It wasn't until I was about to leave, that he came up behind me and whispered in my ear and we started kissing and then things got heated. Our relationship had turned inappropriate before that moment, but it was never destined to become physical.


I know PR claims she didn't plan anything, but that is total BS. I know she didn't have some step by step plan, but think about everything that had to happen up to this ^ point. 

Cheating like this builds over a long period of time and there are dozens and dozens of points where the course could be changed, but the conscious decision was made to proceed. Maybe no "plan" but certainly a fantasy about how everything would go down. From the sounds of it the hallway event was her dreams coming true. 

It is so sickening to read this kind of thing. PR's poor husband was obliviously working that day, thinking that night he would be home with his kids and his beautiful, faithful wife of nearly 20 years. All the while she is drinking wine and having hot monkey sex in the hallway of a guy that knows the husband and was invited to their 20th anniversary party. These kind of stories make me thank God over and over again for the woman I married.


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## jsmart

The enforced isolation that this pandemic has imposed have led to huge jumps in suicide, alcohol & drug abuse, as well as domestic abuse. What’s not discussed is that the extreme boredom have led other wise loyal people to be desperate for any stimulation, including extramarital. 

Would purple have initiated the steps that led to her putting herself in a situation where she can say, it just happened. She said that she has never betrayed her husband. We here that often from both men and women. It was the first time I’ve ever done something like this. I guess that’s to assuage their guilt but her husband was in the same marriage through the same pandemic, yet he didn’t chase after any hot thing that he secretly crushed on. We alll have someone in our lives that we secretly crush on. Thankfully most of us are able to control our baser instincts.


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## BigDaddyNY

jsmart said:


> The enforced isolation that this pandemic has imposed have led to huge jumps in suicide, alcohol & drug abuse, as well as domestic abuse. What’s not discussed is that the extreme boredom have led other wise loyal people to be desperate for any stimulation, including extramarital.
> 
> Would purple have initiated the steps that led to her putting herself in a situation where she can say, it just happened. She said that she has never betrayed her husband. We here that often from both men and women. It was the first time I’ve ever done something like this. I guess that’s to assuage their guilt but her husband was in the same marriage through the same pandemic, yet he didn’t chase after any hot thing that he secretly crushed on. We alll have someone in our lives that we secretly crush on. Thankfully most of us are able to control our baser instincts.


I would bet that this particular affair would not have happened if not for Covid, but PR was/is a ticking infidelity time bomb. She admits that she has done a lot of flirting with guys while married, compares notes on how hot guys are with her friends, and she is highly resistant to any boundaries that she perceives as infringing on her rights. She didn't come right out and say it, but it also sounds to me like at least one of those friends had an affair and she knows about it, but did nothing about it. These are all things that make someone a poor choice for a spouse. It was only a matter of having the right environment to trigger her to go well past flirting. I really hope she sorts out these behavior issues in therapy.


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## karmagoround

PurpleRoses said:


> Oh come on, when I was doing it, I figured he would never find out. My head wasn't in the right place and I thought I could just balance things and I minimized what I was doing. Day to day, I convinced myself it was no big deal.


You did you come to believe that it was no big deal? 

Some of the things that you wrote make it sound like you bought into the feminist lie. If there is any of that in you, I would imagine that your husband would want you to leave the feminist BS at the door when it comes to your family. 



PurpleRoses said:


> Because I was lying to myself and everyone around me. I could never apologize for the number of lies I've told over the last number of months. I seriously lost track and I even started to believe them, even the biggest ones.


You AP; the one "that this is not about" lied to you. He helped trick you into thinking it was no big deal. You say that you lied to everyone around you. Do you feel that you were you honest with your AP? Maybe the conversations didn't get deep enough to have to lie.


----------



## Arkansas

jjj858 said:


> If I was to talk to the H I’d tell him…realize, you’re trying to drive a totaled car. Why stay with someone when you’re no longer their #1 ? She’s not yours anymore and no amount of marriage counseling or advice will make her feel what she just doesn’t feel anymore.


husband will get there - he has to go through understanding that his wife is gone forever. Whomever she was has changed, replaced with a person who lies, cheats and manipulates to get what she wants. You're right - there is almost a possessiveness to how a man feels about his wife - many of us would die for them - and to know that level is given and in return she's bedding another guy? its unfathomable 



BigDaddyNY said:


> It is so sickening to read this kind of thing. PR's poor husband was obliviously working that day, thinking that night he would be home with his kids and his beautiful, faithful wife of nearly 20 years. All the while she is drinking wine and having hot monkey sex in the hallway of a guy that knows the husband and was invited to their 20th anniversary party. These kind of stories make me thank God over and over again for the woman I married.


and Purple Roses knew exactly all of that when she did what she did

I'm guessing like my ex, she thought #1 she'd keep it a beautiful wonderful secret or, #2 everyone would just say oh, that's ok and in 2 weeks all forgiven and forgotten


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## Butforthegrace

There is something unique and peculiar about this thread that other commenters have alluded/referred to, and that may underlie some of the tension/frustration infused in the dialogue between OP and commenters: the void of detail. This is a forum of anonymous strangers. Most posters who come here dump a reasonably detailed chronology of their story in their OP. Here, the OP tells us that you had an affair, but mostly it then tells us what you didn’t/won’t/would not do. It plays like a game of 20 questions. The fact that you are so guarded and reserved with anonymous strangers suggests that this is likely an over-arching characteristic of your personality.

When it comes to recovery from infidelity, details matter. Betrayed spouses tend to get hung up on details. More on that below. For now, I will note that most newly minted WW’s come to forums like this gushing something along the lines of, “I will do anything to save this marriage.” Yours is a marked by an almost diametrically opposite approach: “I would prefer to remain married, but I will not, under any circumstances, do X, Y, or Z to accomplish this, even if doing so would save my marriage.” Of course the gushers don’t really mean literally “anything”. Everybody has limits on what she will do. In that sense, your approach is more honest and real than most, and yet the absence of a sense of passionate, almost desperate longing/desire to restore exclusive sexual intimacy with your husband leaps off the page when reading your thread. Bottom line: do you desire your husband sexually? At the end of the day, for a betrayed man, marriage only makes sense if he can believe at a visceral level that his WW desires him sexually.

The shroud you use to shield the details from discussion here leads to my next point, which is that, insofar as you describe the dynamic of your marriage, yours is unusually and highly compartmentalized in ways that many people would view as anathema to the very nature of marriage itself. In fact, compartmentalization within marriage is often a significant element of the structures created by the cheater to enable her/his infidelity. Cheaters are often natural compartmentalizers. In the view of many, marriage involves an excruciating depth of intimacy, “the two become one”, where there are no secrets. Or, rather – because everybody in his core harbors some secret thoughts that he dare not utter even to God – where secrets are recognized as prophylactics to intimacy such that, in an additive manner, the more layers of secrets, the more the marital bond itself becomes permeable, ephemeral, dissolute. You describe a marriage in which you routinely maintain a lot of secrets at a degree that seems high In the eyes of many.

In my view, your approach toward marriage, at least as I think you describe it, is one in which you are chronically and systematically unfaithful. There are many types of infidelity besides sexual. Perhaps the most well-known is financial infidelity, where one spouse spends marital money secretly on purchases he knows the other spouse would not approve. But for many, the standard is: “anything you do or say in private that you would not do or say with your spouse next to you, watching and listening, because you know it would bother/hurt him, that’s infidelity.”

I say that here because I wonder if you and your husband are on the same page with respect to this. You allude to a string of casual workplace (or other) interactions over time that have drifted into sharing of intimate personal information, flirting, perhaps kissing, etc. You say:

“I admitted all the flirting, even the times he accused me and I denied in the past 20 years. I don't mean going to the houses of men, I just mean maybe having a few drinks and laughing a bit much at stuff that isn't even funny. None of it ever got this serious, but it was all wrong. I apologized for it and committed to working on myself.”

Only one, as far as I can determine, has proceeded to PIV intercourse. However, if I’m reading your thread correctly, you are and have been a serial adulterer, which you justified to yourself by clinging to the artificial construct that it was not adultery as long as it did not proceed to PIV intercourse. The "it's just..." approach ("It's just a drink. It's just a kiss." Etc.)

The title of your thread posits a question about forgiveness. What does “forgiveness” mean to you? How will you know if forgiveness has been granted? There has been a lot of discussion about the metes and bounds of forgiveness on these sites. For most, “forgiveness” means an absence of desire to exact revenge. Under that definition, a lot of BS’s “forgive” their betrayers, yet the marriage relationship does not survive intact. I rather suspect that, in your case, your vision forgiveness is a marriage that can continue apace, as it was before, despite your BH’s Dday in which he learned some aspects of this one instance (out of the several) of sexual infidelity you have admitted to. Most posters on threads like this call that “rug sweeping”. Tip to the wise: rug sweeping never works. These forums are filled with threads by anguished spouses posting a decade or two after Dday, admitting that they allowed their cheater to push a rug-sweeping agenda, and ruing the ensuing years, their wasted, shattered, shell of a life. You seem like a frank and honest person. You also seem (frankly) to me like a person who is unable and/or unwilling to look her demons in the eye. If that is you, please do your BH a favor and end the marriage.

We don’t know anything about your BH. However, for most men, the answer to the version of forgiveness I think you’re seeking would be, “no”. The marriage will never be the same after discovery/revelation of infidelity. The sexual adultery will be a permanent third party to the marriage, forever changing it. Since you are the spouse who decided that, for you, marriage can be a secret, one-sided open marriage, and therefore it’s okay for you to bring this other man into your marital relationship without your husband's consent, you need to be prepared to live with that.

To that end, I’ve not talked at all about aspects of recovery from infidelity. Have you read the Linda MacDonald book, “How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair”? I’d be interested to know your thoughts about the book. If your BH is like most BH’s, and if you find the MacDonald book to be unhelpful, then I’d say your chances of reconciliation are about zero percent. You might remain married, but it would be, for your BH, a white knuckle relationship where he grimly hangs on out of fear of leaving, or a stubborn sense that remaining married is the moral or virtuous thing to do. There will be no joy to him in your embrace.

The rest of my post will speak in generalizations, which it must because of the lack of detail in your thread. As I said, when it comes to recovering from infidelity, details matter. I allude above to the fact that you chose to live a secret, one-sided open marriage. Among other things, you arranged a circumstance where your BH unwittingly invited this man to your home for your party. Bringing the AP to your home to interact socially with your unwitting BH, that is a line that most cheaters don't cross. It's a special level of wickedness and, quite frankly, sadistic meanness to do this. What else did you do that your BH would find humiliating? Did you deny your BH sex so you could have sex with the AP? Did you do something humiliating to your BH, such as allow him to perform oral sex on you shortly after you completed unprotected PIV sex with your AP? Did you engage in sexual acts with your AP that you had denied your BH, or show more sexual brio with your AP? Those kinds of things can be very difficult for a man to overcome.

Most BH feel a mixture of trauma, sexual humiliation, and outright emasculation upon learning of a wife’s sexual infidelity. Your thread doesn’t speak to these questions at all, so I don’t know if your BH feels them. It would be normal and ordinary for him to feel these things. Reconciliation requires that he can heal from these feelings. Healing requires him to be able to restore confidence in himself as a sexual man, vis-à-vis your sexuality in particular. It is incumbent upon the WW to take an active role in fostering this healing. Posters here have randomly suggested ideas such as sex on demand, but what they are getting at, bottom line, is this common hurdle to marital recovery after a wife has adulterous sex outside the marriage. It can take years of concerted effort by the adulterous wife to figure out whether this sort of recovery is even remotely possible. Are you a long-distance runner? Are you willing to start and finish a marathon effort of assuaging your husband’s feelings of sexual inadequacy? Is your imagination locked and engaged in this process to the degree that you will make fundamental changes to your core personality if that’s what it takes? Of course, all the endurance and commitment in the world won't matter if the desire is not genuine. Is your desire for your BH real, and not just temporary HB? If the answer is no, my suggestion would be to do yourself and your BH a favor and divorce, now. I’ve never read a thread where a BH divorced his cheating wife and later regretted it.

As to the intimacy part, if you shared traditional American wedding vows, you looked your husband in the eye in your wedding and promised to share the sexual aspect of your life only with him, forever. By your actions, you have demonstrated to your BH that you are not a woman of her word. Your posts belligerently posit the straw man assertion that you are beholden to no man. The issue isn't being beholden to a man. The issue is lying and breaking promises. When it comes to judging a person, believe their actions before you believe their words. Your actions demonstrate that you are a person who makes promises that cannot be trusted. What are you doing to fix yourself, to make yourself into an honorable person whom your BH can trust?

In addition to establishing yourself as a person whose word cannot be trusted, cheating involves weaving a cocoon of intimacy with the AP. That segment of intimacy is not just a breach of your promise; it is stolen from the marriage. Your actions have created a hole in the marital intimacy continuum. Most betrayed husbands fill that hole with wicked imaginations that haunt and torture us. It’s so common, it has a slang name: “mind movies”. For most BH’s, getting a detailed timeline, x-rated, down to every dirty detail, as if he were a fly on the wall watching the A from beginning to end, that’s the only way to put a stop to the mind movies. Most recommend you read this to him aloud as you sit in front of him and look him in the eye. As painful as it is to hear these details, the salutary impact of the raw honesty restoring the intimacy hole outweighs that pain. He once again feels like he is your confidante, like you will be honest with and true to him no matter how uncomfortable it may make you feel. Are you ready for that sort of radical intimacy with your husband, if he wants it?

As to the comments on this thread concerning leaving your job, and the way you snort at this concept as if it’s absurd, I will say two things. First, a marriage cannot reconcile from infidelity if the cheater does not have the ability to experience empathy with the feelings and point of view of the betrayed. One over-arching message that leaps from all of your posts on this thread is a void of empathy for your BH’s feelings. I’m not saying you don’t actually have empathy for him. Maybe you do. But nothing you have said in this thread suggests that you do.

To that end, workplace infidelity creates an acute issue for a BS. Every day, you spend most of your day at work (putting aside the pandemic). In the wake of Dday, the BH knows as point of factual reality that, in addition to doing your job, you decided to use some of that time when you were purportedly "at work" to flirt with, engage into a relationship with, and then start a sexual affair with a co-worker (or, in your case, multiple co-workers). Even if the sex partner co-worker leaves the earth entirely, every time you go off to work, your BH is going to wonder who you’re exchanging flirtatious smirks with in the coffee room, or over-long lunches with significant eye contact across the table, or the body language of shifting your hips to accommodate a colleague’s arm around your waist at the bar during after-work drinks, his hand a bit too close to your bum by workplace standards, etc.

If the man you had sex with is still working there, these wonderings can cross the line to torture. The only burning question in his mind when you return home each day will be around whether you saw the man that day, did you make eye contact, what sort of eye contact, did he touch you/you touch him in any way, did you have sex? More than any of those: when you looked at him, did you think even fleetingly of what it was like to feel his penis inside of you? I guarantee you that, if your BH is a normal man, these sorts of thoughts torment your BH at present. It’s possibly the main thing he thinks about all day, every day. You can of course choose to remain coworkers with your AP, and I understand the economic/job opportunity issues, but you’re lying to yourself if you think that your own subjective statements about “nothing is going to happen” will have even a scintilla of impact in terms of assuaging the panic your BH will feel at the thought that you might have even a fleeting moment where you are alone with your AP. It is the figurative knife, still protruding from his side, you unwilling to pull it out or salve the wound. You’re lying to yourself if you try to convince yourself otherwise, and if you choose long term to remain in that situation, then you need to be honest that you are choosing yourself over your husband’s healing. Sure, that’s your choice. Screwing another man was also your choice. How is that choice working for you? Shrill insistence on freedom of choice, in the wake of demonstrable facts proving that you are the type of person who makes poor choices, is just dumb. This is a forum that deals with infidelity and attempting to heal from it. We comment from the perspective of marriage. Life is nothing but a series of choices. At least be honest about when you are choosing your ersatz autonomy over your marriage. Honestly, why did you choose to get married in the first place? Did you read and consider the promises you would make to your husband via your wedding vows? Because so many of your defiant statements in this thread boil down to: "I will not honor my promises to my husband if I find them inconvenient."

As a final matter, there is the issue of personal friends, vis-à-vis friends of the marriage. If you have a friend who knew of the affair and did not warn your BH about it, that friend is not a friend of your marriage. Choices, actions, and consequences. You chose to create a secret segment of your life that involved your infidelity. It's cancer to the marriage. Will you stubbornly insist in retaining that segment in your life if it is a hurdle to reconciliation? On the empathy point, it doesn’t matter whether you engaged in conversation with your friend in which you mocked or belittled your BH, or compared penis size between the AP and the BH. What matters is that the only thing your BH will feel in connection with that friend is humiliation. Her mere presence in his sphere will remind him that he is a cuckold. To reconcile keeping this person in your life with simultaneously saying you want to preserve your marriage requires a truly gymnastic achievement in compartmentalization, which is the primary trait that enabled your cheating in the first place. It's "wayward thinking" as people say on these forums. Further, as an objective matter, she is not an honorable human. Most honorable friends, upon learning of a good friend's adultery, would press the cheater in the strongest possible terms to stop the affair and disclose to the spouse. If you’re not prepared to end the friendship, then what are you prepared to do to assuage your BH’s feelings of emasculation?

Bottom line: you broke stuff, and it wasn't by accident. You broke things on purpose via your knowing, intentional choices. If you want things fixed, it is incumbent on you to fix them. To start, own your choices and their consequences. There's something wrong with you. Your moral compass is messed up. You can't fix things until you first sort that out. Your belligerent, defiant responses to anonymous strangers on the internet, with no dog in your fight, volunteering their suggestions in a helpful spirit, does not augur well for a good outcome for your marriage. I invite you to prove us wrong with your actions.


----------



## uphillbattle

Butforthegrace said:


> There is something unique and peculiar about this thread that other commenters have alluded/referred to, and that may underlie some of the tension/frustration infused in the dialogue between OP and commenters: the void of detail. This is a forum of anonymous strangers. Most posters who come here dump a reasonably detailed chronology of their story in their OP. Here, the OP tells us that you had an affair, but mostly it then tells us what you didn’t/won’t/would not do. It plays like a game of 20 questions. The fact that you are so guarded and reserved with anonymous strangers suggests that this is likely an over-arching characteristic of your personality.
> 
> When it comes to recovery from infidelity, details matter. Betrayed spouses tend to get hung up on details. More on that below. For now, I will note that most newly minted WW’s come to forums like this gushing something along the lines of, “I will do anything to save this marriage.” Yours is a marked by an almost diametrically opposite approach: “I would prefer to remain married, but I will not, under any circumstances, do X, Y, or Z to accomplish this, even if doing so would save my marriage.” Of course the gushers don’t really mean literally “anything”. Everybody has limits on what she will do. In that sense, your approach is more honest and real than most, and yet the absence of a sense of passionate, almost desperate longing/desire to restore exclusive sexual intimacy with your husband leaps off the page when reading your thread. Bottom line: do you desire your husband sexually? At the end of the day, for a betrayed man, marriage only makes sense if he can believe at a visceral level that his WW desires him sexually.
> 
> The shroud you use to shield the details from discussion here leads to my next point, which is that, insofar as you describe the dynamic of your marriage, yours is unusually and highly compartmentalized in ways that many people would view as anathema to the very nature of marriage itself. In fact, compartmentalization within marriage is often a significant element of the structures created by the cheater to enable her/his infidelity. Cheaters are often natural compartmentalizers. In the view of many, marriage involves an excruciating depth of intimacy, “the two become one”, where there are no secrets. Or, rather – because everybody in his core harbors some secret thoughts that he dare not utter even to God – where secrets are recognized as prophylactics to intimacy and that, in an additive manner, the more layers of secrets, the more the marital bond itself becomes permeable, ephemeral, dissolute. You describe a marriage in which you routinely maintain a lot of secrets at a degree that seems high In the eyes of many. In my view, your approach toward marriage, at least as I think you describe it, is one in which you are chronically and systematically unfaithful.
> 
> There are many types of infidelity besides sexual. Perhaps the most well-known is financial infidelity, where one spouse spends marital money secretly on purchases he knows the other spouse would not approve. But for many, the standard is: “anything you do or say in private that you would not do or say with your spouse next to you, watching and listening, because you know it would bother/hurt him, that’s infidelity.”
> 
> I say that here because I wonder if you and your husband are on the same page with respect to this. You allude to a string of casual workplace (or other) interactions over time that have drifted into sharing of intimate personal information, flirting, perhaps kissing, etc. You say:
> 
> “I admitted all the flirting, even the times he accused me and I denied in the past 20 years. I don't mean going to the houses of men, I just mean maybe having a few drinks and laughing a bit much at stuff that isn't even funny. None of it ever got this serious, but it was all wrong. I apologized for it and committed to working on myself.”
> 
> Only one, as far as I can determine, has proceeded to PIV intercourse, but if I’m reading your thread correctly, you are and have been a serial adulterer, but you justified it to yourself by clinging to the artificial construct that it was not adultery as long as it did not proceed to PIV intercourse. Does your BH agree with this view?
> 
> I say this because the title of your thread posits a question about forgiveness. What does “forgiveness” mean to you? How will you know if forgiveness has been granted? There has been a lot of discussion about the metes and bounds of forgiveness on these sites. For most, “forgiveness” means an absence of desire to exact revenge. Under that definition, a lot of BS’s “forgive” their betrayers, yet the marriage relationship does not survive intact. I rather suspect that, in your case, your vision forgiveness is a marriage that can continue apace, as it was before, in light of your BH’s knowledge of some aspects of this one instance (out of the several) of sexual infidelity you have admitted to. Most posters on threads like this call that “rug sweeping”. Tip to the wise: rug sweeping never works. These forums are filled with threads by anguished spouses posting a decade or two after Dday, admitting that they allowed their cheater to push a rug-sweeping agenda, and ruing the ensuing years, their wasted, shattered, shell of a life. You seem like a frank and honest person. You also seem (frankly) to me like a person who is unable and/or unwilling to look her demons in the eye. If that is you, please do your BH a favor and end the marriage.
> 
> We don’t know anything about your BH. However, for most men, the answer to the version of forgiveness I think you’re seeking would be, “no”. The marriage will never be the same after discovery/revelation of infidelity. The sexual adultery will be a permanent third party to the marriage, forever changing it. Since you are the spouse who decided that, for you, marriage can me a secret, one-sided open marriage, and therefore it’s okay for you to bring this other man into your marital relationship, you need to be prepared to live with that.
> 
> To that end, I’ve not talked at all about aspects of recovery from infidelity. Have you read the Linda MacDonald book, “How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair”? I’d be interested to know your thoughts about the book. If your BH is like most BH’s, and if you find the MacDonald book to be unhelpful, then I’d say your chances of reconciliation are about zero percent. You might remain married, but it would be, for your BH, a white knuckle relationship where he grimly hangs on out of fear of leaving, or a stubborn sense that remaining married is the moral or virtuous thing to do. There will be no joy to him in your embrace.
> 
> The rest of my post will speak in generalizations, which it must because of the lack of detail in your thread. As I said, when it comes to recovering from infidelity, details matter. Did you deny your BH sex so you could have sex with the AP? Did you do something humiliating to your BH, such as allow him to perform oral sex on you shortly after you completed unprotected PIV sex with your AP? Did you engage in sexual acts with your AP that you had denied your BH, or show more sexual brio with your AP? Those kinds of things can be very difficult for a man to overcome.
> 
> Most BH feel a mixture of trauma, sexual humiliation, and outright emasculation upon learning of a wife’s sexual infidelity. Your thread doesn’t speak to these questions at all, so I don’t know if your BH feels them. But it would be normal and ordinary for him to feel these things. Reconciliation requires that he can heal from these feelings. Healing requires him to be able to restore confidence in himself as a sexual man, vis-à-vis your sexuality in particular. It is incumbent upon the WW to take an active role in fostering this healing. Posters here have randomly suggested ideas such as sex on demand, but what they are getting at, bottom line, is this common hurdle to marital recovery after a wife has adulterous sex outside the marriage. It can take years of concerted effort by the adulterous wife to figure out whether this sort of recovery is even remotely possible. Are you a long-distance runner? Are you willing to start and finish a marathon effort of assuaging your husband’s feelings of sexual inadequacy? Is your imagination locked and engaged in this process to the degree that you will make fundamental changes to your core personality if that’s what it takes? If the answer is no, my suggestion would be to do yourself and your BH a favor and divorce, now. I’ve never read a thread where a BH divorced his cheating wife and later regretted it.
> 
> As to the intimacy part, one aspect of infidelity is that the cheater weaves a cocoon of intimacy with the AP. That segment of intimacy is stolen from the marriage. If you shared traditional American wedding vows, you looked your husband in the eye in your wedding and promised to share this aspect of your life only with him, forever. Your actions have created a hole in the marital intimacy continuum. Most betrayed husbands fill that hole with wicked imaginations that haunt and torture us. It’s so common, it has a slang name: “mind movies”. For most BH’s, getting a detailed timeline, x-rated, down to every dirty detail, as if he were a fly on the wall watching the A from beginning to end, that’s the only way to put a stop to the mind movies. As painful as it is to hear these details, the salutary impact of restoring the intimacy hole outweighs that pain. He once again feels like he is your confidante, like you will be honest with and true to him no matter how uncomfortable it may make you feel. Are you ready for that sort of raw, radical intimacy with your husband, if he wants it?
> 
> As to the comments on this thread concerning leaving your job, and the way you snort at this concept as if it’s absurd, I will say two things. First, a marriage cannot reconcile from infidelity if the cheater does not have the ability to experience empathy with the feelings and point of view of the betrayed. One over-arching message that leaps from all of your posts on this thread is a void of empathy for your BH’s feelings. I’m not saying you don’t actually have empathy for him. Maybe you do. But nothing you have said in this thread suggests that you do.
> 
> To that end, workplace infidelity creates an acute issue for a BS. Every day, you spend most of your day at work (putting aside the pandemic). In the wake of Dday, the BH knows as point of factual reality that, in addition to doing your job, you used some of that time at work to flirt with, engage into a relationship with, and then start a sexual affair with a co-worker (or, in your case, multiple co-workers). Even if the sex partner co-worker leaves the earth entirely, every time you go off to work, your BH is going to wonder who you’re exchanging flirtatious smirks with in the coffee room, or over-long lunches with significant eye contact across the table, or the body language of shifting your hips to accommodate a colleague’s arm around your waist at the bar during after-work drinks, his hand a bit too close to your bum by workplace standards, etc.
> 
> If the man you had sex with is still working there, these wonderings can cross the line to torture. The only burning question in his mind when you return home each day will be around whether you saw the man that day, did you make eye contact, what sort of eye contact, did he touch you/you touch him in any way, did you have sex? More than any of those: when you looked at him, did you think even fleetingly of what it was like to feel his penis inside of you? I guarantee you that, if your BH is a normal man, these sorts of thoughts torment your BH at present. It’s possibly the main thing he thinks about all day, every day. You can of course choose to remain coworkers with your AP, and I understand the economic/job opportunity issues, but you’re lying to yourself if you think that your own subjective statements about “nothing is going to happen” will have even a scintilla of impact in terms of assuaging the panic your BH will feel at the thought that you might have even a fleeting moment where you are alone with your AP. It is the figurative knife, still protruding from his side, you unwilling to pull it out or salve the wound. You’re lying to yourself if you try to convince yourself otherwise, and if you choose long term to remain in that situation, then you need to be honest that you are choosing yourself over your husband’s healing. Sure, that’s your choice. Screwing another man was also your choice (or, rather, the end of a series of choices, including lying to your husband repeatedly and chronically (and even gaslighting him) about your inappropriate behavior with work colleagues). What has that choice done for you in terms of improving your marriage? This is a forum that deals with infidelity and attempting to heal from it. We comment from the perspective of marriage. Life is nothing but a series of choices. At least be honest about when you are choosing your marriage, or not.
> 
> As a final matter, there is the issue of personal friends, vis-à-vis friends of the marriage. If you have a friend who knew of the affair and did not warn your BH about it, that friend is not a friend of your marriage. Choices and actions have consequences. You chose to create a secret segment of your life that involved your infidelity. Will you stubbornly insist in retaining that segment in your life if it is a hurdle to reconciliation? On the empathy point, it doesn’t matter whether you engaged in conversation with your friend in which you mocked or belittled your BH, or compared penis size between the AP and the BH. What matters is that your BH probably wonders if you do this when you’re with that friend. If you’re not prepared to end the friendship, then what are you prepared to do to assuage your BH’s feelings of emasculation?


Ok be honest, you made an outline, wrote a rough draft, proofread, edited, and made a final draft all before making your account. Excellent post though.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Butforthegrace said:


> There is something unique and peculiar about this thread that other commenters have alluded/referred to, and that may underlie some of the tension/frustration infused in the dialogue between OP and commenters: the void of detail. This is a forum of anonymous strangers. Most posters who come here dump a reasonably detailed chronology of their story in their OP. Here, the OP tells us that you had an affair, but mostly it then tells us what you didn’t/won’t/would not do. It plays like a game of 20 questions. The fact that you are so guarded and reserved with anonymous strangers suggests that this is likely an over-arching characteristic of your personality.
> 
> When it comes to recovery from infidelity, details matter. Betrayed spouses tend to get hung up on details. More on that below. For now, I will note that most newly minted WW’s come to forums like this gushing something along the lines of, “I will do anything to save this marriage.” Yours is a marked by an almost diametrically opposite approach: “I would prefer to remain married, but I will not, under any circumstances, do X, Y, or Z to accomplish this, even if doing so would save my marriage.” Of course the gushers don’t really mean literally “anything”. Everybody has limits on what she will do. In that sense, your approach is more honest and real than most, and yet the absence of a sense of passionate, almost desperate longing/desire to restore exclusive sexual intimacy with your husband leaps off the page when reading your thread. Bottom line: do you desire your husband sexually? At the end of the day, for a betrayed man, marriage only makes sense if he can believe at a visceral level that his WW desires him sexually.
> 
> The shroud you use to shield the details from discussion here leads to my next point, which is that, insofar as you describe the dynamic of your marriage, yours is unusually and highly compartmentalized in ways that many people would view as anathema to the very nature of marriage itself. In fact, compartmentalization within marriage is often a significant element of the structures created by the cheater to enable her/his infidelity. Cheaters are often natural compartmentalizers. In the view of many, marriage involves an excruciating depth of intimacy, “the two become one”, where there are no secrets. Or, rather – because everybody in his core harbors some secret thoughts that he dare not utter even to God – where secrets are recognized as prophylactics to intimacy and that, in an additive manner, the more layers of secrets, the more the marital bond itself becomes permeable, ephemeral, dissolute. You describe a marriage in which you routinely maintain a lot of secrets at a degree that seems high In the eyes of many. In my view, your approach toward marriage, at least as I think you describe it, is one in which you are chronically and systematically unfaithful.
> 
> There are many types of infidelity besides sexual. Perhaps the most well-known is financial infidelity, where one spouse spends marital money secretly on purchases he knows the other spouse would not approve. But for many, the standard is: “anything you do or say in private that you would not do or say with your spouse next to you, watching and listening, because you know it would bother/hurt him, that’s infidelity.”
> 
> I say that here because I wonder if you and your husband are on the same page with respect to this. You allude to a string of casual workplace (or other) interactions over time that have drifted into sharing of intimate personal information, flirting, perhaps kissing, etc. You say:
> 
> “I admitted all the flirting, even the times he accused me and I denied in the past 20 years. I don't mean going to the houses of men, I just mean maybe having a few drinks and laughing a bit much at stuff that isn't even funny. None of it ever got this serious, but it was all wrong. I apologized for it and committed to working on myself.”
> 
> Only one, as far as I can determine, has proceeded to PIV intercourse, but if I’m reading your thread correctly, you are and have been a serial adulterer, but you justified it to yourself by clinging to the artificial construct that it was not adultery as long as it did not proceed to PIV intercourse. Does your BH agree with this view?
> 
> I say this because the title of your thread posits a question about forgiveness. What does “forgiveness” mean to you? How will you know if forgiveness has been granted? There has been a lot of discussion about the metes and bounds of forgiveness on these sites. For most, “forgiveness” means an absence of desire to exact revenge. Under that definition, a lot of BS’s “forgive” their betrayers, yet the marriage relationship does not survive intact. I rather suspect that, in your case, your vision forgiveness is a marriage that can continue apace, as it was before, in light of your BH’s knowledge of some aspects of this one instance (out of the several) of sexual infidelity you have admitted to. Most posters on threads like this call that “rug sweeping”. Tip to the wise: rug sweeping never works. These forums are filled with threads by anguished spouses posting a decade or two after Dday, admitting that they allowed their cheater to push a rug-sweeping agenda, and ruing the ensuing years, their wasted, shattered, shell of a life. You seem like a frank and honest person. You also seem (frankly) to me like a person who is unable and/or unwilling to look her demons in the eye. If that is you, please do your BH a favor and end the marriage.
> 
> We don’t know anything about your BH. However, for most men, the answer to the version of forgiveness I think you’re seeking would be, “no”. The marriage will never be the same after discovery/revelation of infidelity. The sexual adultery will be a permanent third party to the marriage, forever changing it. Since you are the spouse who decided that, for you, marriage can me a secret, one-sided open marriage, and therefore it’s okay for you to bring this other man into your marital relationship, you need to be prepared to live with that.
> 
> To that end, I’ve not talked at all about aspects of recovery from infidelity. Have you read the Linda MacDonald book, “How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair”? I’d be interested to know your thoughts about the book. If your BH is like most BH’s, and if you find the MacDonald book to be unhelpful, then I’d say your chances of reconciliation are about zero percent. You might remain married, but it would be, for your BH, a white knuckle relationship where he grimly hangs on out of fear of leaving, or a stubborn sense that remaining married is the moral or virtuous thing to do. There will be no joy to him in your embrace.
> 
> The rest of my post will speak in generalizations, which it must because of the lack of detail in your thread. As I said, when it comes to recovering from infidelity, details matter. Did you deny your BH sex so you could have sex with the AP? Did you do something humiliating to your BH, such as allow him to perform oral sex on you shortly after you completed unprotected PIV sex with your AP? Did you engage in sexual acts with your AP that you had denied your BH, or show more sexual brio with your AP? Those kinds of things can be very difficult for a man to overcome.
> 
> Most BH feel a mixture of trauma, sexual humiliation, and outright emasculation upon learning of a wife’s sexual infidelity. Your thread doesn’t speak to these questions at all, so I don’t know if your BH feels them. But it would be normal and ordinary for him to feel these things. Reconciliation requires that he can heal from these feelings. Healing requires him to be able to restore confidence in himself as a sexual man, vis-à-vis your sexuality in particular. It is incumbent upon the WW to take an active role in fostering this healing. Posters here have randomly suggested ideas such as sex on demand, but what they are getting at, bottom line, is this common hurdle to marital recovery after a wife has adulterous sex outside the marriage. It can take years of concerted effort by the adulterous wife to figure out whether this sort of recovery is even remotely possible. Are you a long-distance runner? Are you willing to start and finish a marathon effort of assuaging your husband’s feelings of sexual inadequacy? Is your imagination locked and engaged in this process to the degree that you will make fundamental changes to your core personality if that’s what it takes? If the answer is no, my suggestion would be to do yourself and your BH a favor and divorce, now. I’ve never read a thread where a BH divorced his cheating wife and later regretted it.
> 
> As to the intimacy part, one aspect of infidelity is that the cheater weaves a cocoon of intimacy with the AP. That segment of intimacy is stolen from the marriage. If you shared traditional American wedding vows, you looked your husband in the eye in your wedding and promised to share this aspect of your life only with him, forever. Your actions have created a hole in the marital intimacy continuum. Most betrayed husbands fill that hole with wicked imaginations that haunt and torture us. It’s so common, it has a slang name: “mind movies”. For most BH’s, getting a detailed timeline, x-rated, down to every dirty detail, as if he were a fly on the wall watching the A from beginning to end, that’s the only way to put a stop to the mind movies. As painful as it is to hear these details, the salutary impact of restoring the intimacy hole outweighs that pain. He once again feels like he is your confidante, like you will be honest with and true to him no matter how uncomfortable it may make you feel. Are you ready for that sort of raw, radical intimacy with your husband, if he wants it?
> 
> As to the comments on this thread concerning leaving your job, and the way you snort at this concept as if it’s absurd, I will say two things. First, a marriage cannot reconcile from infidelity if the cheater does not have the ability to experience empathy with the feelings and point of view of the betrayed. One over-arching message that leaps from all of your posts on this thread is a void of empathy for your BH’s feelings. I’m not saying you don’t actually have empathy for him. Maybe you do. But nothing you have said in this thread suggests that you do.
> 
> To that end, workplace infidelity creates an acute issue for a BS. Every day, you spend most of your day at work (putting aside the pandemic). In the wake of Dday, the BH knows as point of factual reality that, in addition to doing your job, you used some of that time at work to flirt with, engage into a relationship with, and then start a sexual affair with a co-worker (or, in your case, multiple co-workers). Even if the sex partner co-worker leaves the earth entirely, every time you go off to work, your BH is going to wonder who you’re exchanging flirtatious smirks with in the coffee room, or over-long lunches with significant eye contact across the table, or the body language of shifting your hips to accommodate a colleague’s arm around your waist at the bar during after-work drinks, his hand a bit too close to your bum by workplace standards, etc.
> 
> If the man you had sex with is still working there, these wonderings can cross the line to torture. The only burning question in his mind when you return home each day will be around whether you saw the man that day, did you make eye contact, what sort of eye contact, did he touch you/you touch him in any way, did you have sex? More than any of those: when you looked at him, did you think even fleetingly of what it was like to feel his penis inside of you? I guarantee you that, if your BH is a normal man, these sorts of thoughts torment your BH at present. It’s possibly the main thing he thinks about all day, every day. You can of course choose to remain coworkers with your AP, and I understand the economic/job opportunity issues, but you’re lying to yourself if you think that your own subjective statements about “nothing is going to happen” will have even a scintilla of impact in terms of assuaging the panic your BH will feel at the thought that you might have even a fleeting moment where you are alone with your AP. It is the figurative knife, still protruding from his side, you unwilling to pull it out or salve the wound. You’re lying to yourself if you try to convince yourself otherwise, and if you choose long term to remain in that situation, then you need to be honest that you are choosing yourself over your husband’s healing. Sure, that’s your choice. Screwing another man was also your choice (or, rather, the end of a series of choices, including lying to your husband repeatedly and chronically (and even gaslighting him) about your inappropriate behavior with work colleagues). What has that choice done for you in terms of improving your marriage? This is a forum that deals with infidelity and attempting to heal from it. We comment from the perspective of marriage. Life is nothing but a series of choices. At least be honest about when you are choosing your marriage, or not.
> 
> As a final matter, there is the issue of personal friends, vis-à-vis friends of the marriage. If you have a friend who knew of the affair and did not warn your BH about it, that friend is not a friend of your marriage. Choices and actions have consequences. You chose to create a secret segment of your life that involved your infidelity. Will you stubbornly insist in retaining that segment in your life if it is a hurdle to reconciliation? On the empathy point, it doesn’t matter whether you engaged in conversation with your friend in which you mocked or belittled your BH, or compared penis size between the AP and the BH. What matters is that your BH probably wonders if you do this when you’re with that friend. If you’re not prepared to end the friendship, then what are you prepared to do to assuage your BH’s feelings of emasculation?


Bravo! That is quite a first post.


----------



## sideways

Welcome to TAM Butforthegrace!!

This site will benefit immensely from your wisdom.


----------



## karmagoround

PurpleRoses said:


> Oh come on, when I was doing it, I figured he would never find out. My head wasn't in the right place and I thought I could just balance things and I minimized what I was doing. Day to day, I convinced myself it was no big deal.


How did PR convince herself it was no big deal?

PRs only flaw is that she has a conscience. If not for having a conscience, her former self would still be living on like an basic animation of what is portrayed as normal for a fully liberated woman. The result of all the shows she's watched, the books she's read. I don't know if a soul brings good or bad when they enter this world, but she's been at least partially programmed. If PR were a bad seed, then she wouldn't be trying to fix this. 

We're all curious on what precipitated her anxiety attacks. Since she said her anxiety attacks weren't precipitated by anything in particular, I'm going to guess this:
The show was over. The fantasy was lived out. Then when she realized it was just the F word and there was nothing deeper to the story, the lights started coming on. Those must have been some awful months for her, realizing her mess. I imagine it just kept getting worse, especially when she realized that she would have to tell him. 

Us men love to put our woman on a pedestal. We put them up there and smile with pride, our hearts all aglow. It's a hand off, father to daughter... here you go, keep spoiling her. But it's with a wink, because both know she is still a child in exactly that way.


----------



## Ribosome

Blondilocks said:


> Nah, he just copied and pasted one of his typical, lengthy Captain Obvious posts from SI.


Every paragraph directly adressed PR, her statements in this thread, her behavior towards her BH, her problems in dealing with the affair..
Why would that be a copy and paste?

Why the hostility?


----------



## DudeInProgress

PurpleRoses said:


> No, actually I don't have to agree to any demand. One of them was obligatory sex times. I'm sorry but nobody owns my body, I don't care what he or anyone else thinks about affairs, I will have sex if I feel like it and there is no more discussion on that. I can try to be more available but we are not keeping score or anything like that. I am willing to do a lot and agreed to a lot. Nobody, I don't care if there is a ring or not, has the right over my body. There is no debating this.





PurpleRoses said:


> I want our marriage to work, but I don't know if I have it in me. I've never answered to any man, he can ask my dad how much luck he had.





PurpleRoses said:


> No, actually I don't have to agree to any demand. One of them was obligatory sex times. I'm sorry but nobody owns my body, I don't care what he or anyone else thinks about affairs, I will have sex if I feel like it and there is no more discussion on that. I can try to be more available but we are not keeping score or anything like that. I am willing to do a lot and agreed to a lot. Nobody, I don't care if there is a ring or not, has the right over my body. There is no debating this.


How do you even manage to walk with such a massive chip on your shoulder?


----------



## DudeInProgress

PurpleRoses said:


> The world doesn't revolve around the two of us. I have friends who confide their personal stuff to me and he doesn't have a right to that. My friends are important to me.


Apparently more important than your husband


----------



## Galabar01

DudeInProgress said:


> Apparently more important than your husband


I think this is a great question to ask before marriage: "Will you put me above your friends and family always?"


----------



## jjj858

Interesting how she references past instances of her husband accusing her of flirting with people and him being upset about it. I wonder if this affair was truly her first rodeo.


----------



## karmagoround

PR should reply to Golden's assertion, at least in her own mind. So she doesn't unintentionally go on living yet another lie. 


GoldenR said:


> If your boyfriend had been single and wanted you, there's no doubt you would have left your BH for him. I mean, if you choose your boyfriend over your BH when he's not available, surely you'd be with him full time if it was possible, otherwise, why choose him over your BH In the first place. You prefer your boyfriend.


----------



## karmagoround

jjj858 said:


> Interesting how she references past instances of her husband accusing her of flirting with people and him being upset about it. I wonder if this affair was truly her first rodeo.


Did PR reference past instances of her husband accusing her of flirting? I must have missed the post.


----------



## LATERILUS79

Your words are just so perplexing. I can't imagine being in your husband's shoes. I don't know why he puts up with it. 

Yesterday you said how humiliated you were. Don't know what for, but really, it doesn't matter. Whatever humiliation you feel doesn't even come remotely close to the humiliation of knowing another man entered you. Nothing is more humiliating to a man. To add insult to injury, you made sure that your husband knew this guy was important enough in your life that he invited him to your surprise party. I can't possibly fathom how that news hit him like a ton of bricks. Knowing that he invited your AP to his own house to celebrate his sham of a marriage that the AP helped to destroy. Your humiliation is NOTHING compared to what your husband feels. 

Secondly, it is clear your BFF is more important to you than your husband. It's important that you two can share all of your secrets in privacy. Like you said, "my best friend didn't say anything like a good friend should". I'd say take some time to think about that one. So, that means your secrets and your friendships are infinitely more important than your marriage and husband. That is essentially what you just said. 

I can say without a doubt that if my best male friend called me to tell me he cheated on his wife, I would tell him he has 24 hours to tell his wife what he did and I'll be contacting her tomorrow 24 hours from now whether he tells her or not to confirm that the information is known by his wife. Why? Because I still love him and I think it would be best his wife hears it from him and not me - but that is NOT a secret I would keep. Why would I want a best friend who so callously hurts another human being? That is awful.


----------



## LATERILUS79

Butforthegrace said:


> There is something unique and peculiar about this thread that other commenters have alluded/referred to, and that may underlie some of the tension/frustration infused in the dialogue between OP and commenters: the void of detail. This is a forum of anonymous strangers. Most posters who come here dump a reasonably detailed chronology of their story in their OP. Here, the OP tells us that you had an affair, but mostly it then tells us what you didn’t/won’t/would not do. It plays like a game of 20 questions. The fact that you are so guarded and reserved with anonymous strangers suggests that this is likely an over-arching characteristic of your personality.
> 
> When it comes to recovery from infidelity, details matter. Betrayed spouses tend to get hung up on details. More on that below. For now, I will note that most newly minted WW’s come to forums like this gushing something along the lines of, “I will do anything to save this marriage.” Yours is a marked by an almost diametrically opposite approach: “I would prefer to remain married, but I will not, under any circumstances, do X, Y, or Z to accomplish this, even if doing so would save my marriage.” Of course the gushers don’t really mean literally “anything”. Everybody has limits on what she will do. In that sense, your approach is more honest and real than most, and yet the absence of a sense of passionate, almost desperate longing/desire to restore exclusive sexual intimacy with your husband leaps off the page when reading your thread. Bottom line: do you desire your husband sexually? At the end of the day, for a betrayed man, marriage only makes sense if he can believe at a visceral level that his WW desires him sexually.
> 
> The shroud you use to shield the details from discussion here leads to my next point, which is that, insofar as you describe the dynamic of your marriage, yours is unusually and highly compartmentalized in ways that many people would view as anathema to the very nature of marriage itself. In fact, compartmentalization within marriage is often a significant element of the structures created by the cheater to enable her/his infidelity. Cheaters are often natural compartmentalizers. In the view of many, marriage involves an excruciating depth of intimacy, “the two become one”, where there are no secrets. Or, rather – because everybody in his core harbors some secret thoughts that he dare not utter even to God – where secrets are recognized as prophylactics to intimacy and that, in an additive manner, the more layers of secrets, the more the marital bond itself becomes permeable, ephemeral, dissolute. You describe a marriage in which you routinely maintain a lot of secrets at a degree that seems high In the eyes of many. In my view, your approach toward marriage, at least as I think you describe it, is one in which you are chronically and systematically unfaithful.
> 
> There are many types of infidelity besides sexual. Perhaps the most well-known is financial infidelity, where one spouse spends marital money secretly on purchases he knows the other spouse would not approve. But for many, the standard is: “anything you do or say in private that you would not do or say with your spouse next to you, watching and listening, because you know it would bother/hurt him, that’s infidelity.”
> 
> I say that here because I wonder if you and your husband are on the same page with respect to this. You allude to a string of casual workplace (or other) interactions over time that have drifted into sharing of intimate personal information, flirting, perhaps kissing, etc. You say:
> 
> “I admitted all the flirting, even the times he accused me and I denied in the past 20 years. I don't mean going to the houses of men, I just mean maybe having a few drinks and laughing a bit much at stuff that isn't even funny. None of it ever got this serious, but it was all wrong. I apologized for it and committed to working on myself.”
> 
> Only one, as far as I can determine, has proceeded to PIV intercourse, but if I’m reading your thread correctly, you are and have been a serial adulterer, but you justified it to yourself by clinging to the artificial construct that it was not adultery as long as it did not proceed to PIV intercourse. Does your BH agree with this view?
> 
> I say this because the title of your thread posits a question about forgiveness. What does “forgiveness” mean to you? How will you know if forgiveness has been granted? There has been a lot of discussion about the metes and bounds of forgiveness on these sites. For most, “forgiveness” means an absence of desire to exact revenge. Under that definition, a lot of BS’s “forgive” their betrayers, yet the marriage relationship does not survive intact. I rather suspect that, in your case, your vision forgiveness is a marriage that can continue apace, as it was before, in light of your BH’s knowledge of some aspects of this one instance (out of the several) of sexual infidelity you have admitted to. Most posters on threads like this call that “rug sweeping”. Tip to the wise: rug sweeping never works. These forums are filled with threads by anguished spouses posting a decade or two after Dday, admitting that they allowed their cheater to push a rug-sweeping agenda, and ruing the ensuing years, their wasted, shattered, shell of a life. You seem like a frank and honest person. You also seem (frankly) to me like a person who is unable and/or unwilling to look her demons in the eye. If that is you, please do your BH a favor and end the marriage.
> 
> We don’t know anything about your BH. However, for most men, the answer to the version of forgiveness I think you’re seeking would be, “no”. The marriage will never be the same after discovery/revelation of infidelity. The sexual adultery will be a permanent third party to the marriage, forever changing it. Since you are the spouse who decided that, for you, marriage can me a secret, one-sided open marriage, and therefore it’s okay for you to bring this other man into your marital relationship, you need to be prepared to live with that.
> 
> To that end, I’ve not talked at all about aspects of recovery from infidelity. Have you read the Linda MacDonald book, “How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair”? I’d be interested to know your thoughts about the book. If your BH is like most BH’s, and if you find the MacDonald book to be unhelpful, then I’d say your chances of reconciliation are about zero percent. You might remain married, but it would be, for your BH, a white knuckle relationship where he grimly hangs on out of fear of leaving, or a stubborn sense that remaining married is the moral or virtuous thing to do. There will be no joy to him in your embrace.
> 
> The rest of my post will speak in generalizations, which it must because of the lack of detail in your thread. As I said, when it comes to recovering from infidelity, details matter. Did you deny your BH sex so you could have sex with the AP? Did you do something humiliating to your BH, such as allow him to perform oral sex on you shortly after you completed unprotected PIV sex with your AP? Did you engage in sexual acts with your AP that you had denied your BH, or show more sexual brio with your AP? Those kinds of things can be very difficult for a man to overcome.
> 
> Most BH feel a mixture of trauma, sexual humiliation, and outright emasculation upon learning of a wife’s sexual infidelity. Your thread doesn’t speak to these questions at all, so I don’t know if your BH feels them. But it would be normal and ordinary for him to feel these things. Reconciliation requires that he can heal from these feelings. Healing requires him to be able to restore confidence in himself as a sexual man, vis-à-vis your sexuality in particular. It is incumbent upon the WW to take an active role in fostering this healing. Posters here have randomly suggested ideas such as sex on demand, but what they are getting at, bottom line, is this common hurdle to marital recovery after a wife has adulterous sex outside the marriage. It can take years of concerted effort by the adulterous wife to figure out whether this sort of recovery is even remotely possible. Are you a long-distance runner? Are you willing to start and finish a marathon effort of assuaging your husband’s feelings of sexual inadequacy? Is your imagination locked and engaged in this process to the degree that you will make fundamental changes to your core personality if that’s what it takes? If the answer is no, my suggestion would be to do yourself and your BH a favor and divorce, now. I’ve never read a thread where a BH divorced his cheating wife and later regretted it.
> 
> As to the intimacy part, one aspect of infidelity is that the cheater weaves a cocoon of intimacy with the AP. That segment of intimacy is stolen from the marriage. If you shared traditional American wedding vows, you looked your husband in the eye in your wedding and promised to share this aspect of your life only with him, forever. Your actions have created a hole in the marital intimacy continuum. Most betrayed husbands fill that hole with wicked imaginations that haunt and torture us. It’s so common, it has a slang name: “mind movies”. For most BH’s, getting a detailed timeline, x-rated, down to every dirty detail, as if he were a fly on the wall watching the A from beginning to end, that’s the only way to put a stop to the mind movies. As painful as it is to hear these details, the salutary impact of restoring the intimacy hole outweighs that pain. He once again feels like he is your confidante, like you will be honest with and true to him no matter how uncomfortable it may make you feel. Are you ready for that sort of raw, radical intimacy with your husband, if he wants it?
> 
> As to the comments on this thread concerning leaving your job, and the way you snort at this concept as if it’s absurd, I will say two things. First, a marriage cannot reconcile from infidelity if the cheater does not have the ability to experience empathy with the feelings and point of view of the betrayed. One over-arching message that leaps from all of your posts on this thread is a void of empathy for your BH’s feelings. I’m not saying you don’t actually have empathy for him. Maybe you do. But nothing you have said in this thread suggests that you do.
> 
> To that end, workplace infidelity creates an acute issue for a BS. Every day, you spend most of your day at work (putting aside the pandemic). In the wake of Dday, the BH knows as point of factual reality that, in addition to doing your job, you used some of that time at work to flirt with, engage into a relationship with, and then start a sexual affair with a co-worker (or, in your case, multiple co-workers). Even if the sex partner co-worker leaves the earth entirely, every time you go off to work, your BH is going to wonder who you’re exchanging flirtatious smirks with in the coffee room, or over-long lunches with significant eye contact across the table, or the body language of shifting your hips to accommodate a colleague’s arm around your waist at the bar during after-work drinks, his hand a bit too close to your bum by workplace standards, etc.
> 
> If the man you had sex with is still working there, these wonderings can cross the line to torture. The only burning question in his mind when you return home each day will be around whether you saw the man that day, did you make eye contact, what sort of eye contact, did he touch you/you touch him in any way, did you have sex? More than any of those: when you looked at him, did you think even fleetingly of what it was like to feel his penis inside of you? I guarantee you that, if your BH is a normal man, these sorts of thoughts torment your BH at present. It’s possibly the main thing he thinks about all day, every day. You can of course choose to remain coworkers with your AP, and I understand the economic/job opportunity issues, but you’re lying to yourself if you think that your own subjective statements about “nothing is going to happen” will have even a scintilla of impact in terms of assuaging the panic your BH will feel at the thought that you might have even a fleeting moment where you are alone with your AP. It is the figurative knife, still protruding from his side, you unwilling to pull it out or salve the wound. You’re lying to yourself if you try to convince yourself otherwise, and if you choose long term to remain in that situation, then you need to be honest that you are choosing yourself over your husband’s healing. Sure, that’s your choice. Screwing another man was also your choice (or, rather, the end of a series of choices, including lying to your husband repeatedly and chronically (and even gaslighting him) about your inappropriate behavior with work colleagues). What has that choice done for you in terms of improving your marriage? This is a forum that deals with infidelity and attempting to heal from it. We comment from the perspective of marriage. Life is nothing but a series of choices. At least be honest about when you are choosing your marriage, or not.
> 
> As a final matter, there is the issue of personal friends, vis-à-vis friends of the marriage. If you have a friend who knew of the affair and did not warn your BH about it, that friend is not a friend of your marriage. Choices and actions have consequences. You chose to create a secret segment of your life that involved your infidelity. Will you stubbornly insist in retaining that segment in your life if it is a hurdle to reconciliation? On the empathy point, it doesn’t matter whether you engaged in conversation with your friend in which you mocked or belittled your BH, or compared penis size between the AP and the BH. What matters is that your BH probably wonders if you do this when you’re with that friend. If you’re not prepared to end the friendship, then what are you prepared to do to assuage your BH’s feelings of emasculation?


Been reading your posts on SI for awhile. I enjoy the clarity of the picture you draw to help others understand infidelity. Curious it was this specific story that brought you here. Regardless, a welcomed addition


----------



## BigDaddyNY

karmagoround said:


> Did PR reference past instances of her husband accusing her of flirting? I must have missed the post.


She did. Apparently PR's H called her out in the past about times he caught her flirting. In the past she was able to rug sweep them. They came back up, from her husband, during her confession to him and subsequent questioning. I guess he never truly got over those events and he is now questioning everything she has ever told him.


----------



## Gabriel

BigDaddyNY said:


> She did. Apparently PR's H called her out in the past about times he caught her flirting. In the past she was able to rug sweep them. They came back up, from her husband, during her confession to him and subsequent questioning. I guess he never truly got over those events and he is now questioning everything she has ever told him.


Yep, and most H's would do the same. He probably thinks she's been an unsafe partner for years, and she just proved him right.


----------



## Laurentium

karmagoround said:


> PR should reply to Golden's assertion


I'm guessing she is long gone


----------



## Arkansas

karmagoround said:


> How did PR convince herself it was no big deal?


the mind has to find a way to make sense - every mind .... and if the mind doesn't it loses its sanity

my ex's mind separated her world into two lives - the one with me and our kids and home and all that which was 16 hours a day, then for 8 hours a day when I was working during the day, she had another life 

she didn't mix those lives - her mind would have had trouble justifying it. When she was in her adultery life, she would say she deserved the happiness she found in her adultery partner. She would say after so many years of missing this, this and that ... she deserved a slice of fun, a sliver of sunshine, a ray of excitement/bliss. Her mind then would see those justifications and she could switch back and forth between what she wanted (her affair) and what she also wanted and had (marriage/family)

for months, her days like that were normal - her mind had found sense in it all. When I found out on May 2nd 2019 my mind couldn't comprehend. I keep going back to my situation and connecting this story to mine to try and show PR what her husband is feeling. Eventually my mind did find a way to understand - even if its wrong, it found a way

does that make sense? 


so her husband's mind will also figure a way - for me, I could not fathom or figure how my faithful, loving, trustworthy, honest, honorable wife could do such a thing. Truth is - she couldn't. She had to change into something totally different and become someone totally new ......... or at least, new to me ..... and when my mind finally understood that the woman I knew had long since gone, THEN it made sense.

PR - do you realize how much you've changed since your cheating? My ex argued how she was the same person .... her mind trying to rationalize/justify right?


----------



## Arkansas

LATERILUS79 said:


> Your words are just so perplexing. I can't imagine being in your husband's shoes. I don't know why he puts up with it.
> 
> Yesterday you said how humiliated you were. Don't know what for, but really, it doesn't matter. Whatever humiliation you feel doesn't even come remotely close to the humiliation of knowing another man entered you. Nothing is more humiliating to a man. To add insult to injury, you made sure that your husband knew this guy was important enough in your life that he invited him to your surprise party. I can't possibly fathom how that news hit him like a ton of bricks. Knowing that he invited your AP to his own house to celebrate his sham of a marriage that the AP helped to destroy. Your humiliation is NOTHING compared to what your husband feels.




I was that husband, I felt all that. I stayed because I made vows, promises .... I had 23 years invested, I was suppose to die with her at my side or her die with me at hers. That's what we spent 23 years telling each other.

I stayed because my mind couldn't understand not - the thought of not having her or being with someone else was alien.

But for her? She'd lived it for months, being with someone else and dreaming/thinking of it all. It wasn't strange or new, it was how she lived, right ?

But that's why good mean stay .... for a while. They're good ..... they just happened to be married to someone who decided not to be good anymore


----------



## karmagoround

Arkansas said:


> I keep going back to my situation and connecting this story to mine to try and show PR what her husband is feeling.


Hey Arkansas, I've not read your story. Congratulations to your success in reconciliation. I'm curious, did you get to have the special pleasure of meeting the OM and going out of your way to be cordial with the special friend? 
I'm guessing that for most, that would make reuniting impossible. For us, though we both wanted it. There was probably no way.


----------



## karmagoround

Arkansas said:


> PR - do you realize how much you've changed since your cheating?


That would be a good perspective for her husband to take if he wants to try to make it work. The woman that did this to him no longer exists. Hopefully, PR puked up the bulk of her evil when it was revealed unto her. 

If your analogy is correct and PR has changed significantly, then For PR, she can take all of the negative her husband is saying and give it to the woman she was. I think it would help if PR changed in every way her husband needs her to. By her own words, she sounds like she has some kind of mean streak in her.

From PR's posts about her husbands conditions. I'm reading that he is helping her be a better wife. It could happen that she goes along with it and weathers the storm so they can live happily ever after.


----------



## karmagoround

PurpleRoses said:


> You can't have revenge on someone you love; it's never enough and it's always empty in the end. It's never going to be even and fair here. If he feels like the only way to appease him is to give up things that I love and make me who I am, then he would have no affection left for me.


PR writes this, then later gets to see what it's really like. What is "things that I love and make me who I am". What would be "things that she loves" that her husband would take away? Would her husband want her to be who she is? 

Who knows? Maybe she is all a changed person now the only problem left is her husbands new mental illnesses.


----------



## Prodigal

Ribosome said:


> Why the hostility?


I think it comes into play when some of the people who hit the "like" button have never posted a single thing on this forum. One must question the purpose and sincerity of the response. I apologize for the threadjack. Carry on.


----------



## Galabar01

I'm sure PR will be back, with a fun zinger placed within a large paragraph.


----------



## rugswept

PR has come a long way. Don't forget it took four posts to get to the FFFF that might have been involved, that eventually morphed into the flat back in the front hallway. 

Fact: PR confessed. She expressed some concern for what she's done to her H (she has no idea, however, how bad that really was). PR is attempting to do some things to ease the pain. 

And yes, PR maintains some kind of inconsistent defiance to H's request (based on what... principle? He's thinking I want what the other guy got). Going out of her way to make BH sexually satisfied are low end payments for what she's done. 

But hey, she's still there, she's come about 1/3rd our way. Better than nothing and they might actually make it. Maybe.


----------



## karmagoround

rugswept said:


> PR has come a long way. Don't forget it took four posts to get to the FFFF that might have been involved, that eventually morphed into the flat back in the front hallway.
> 
> Fact: PR confessed. She expressed some concern for what she's done to her H (she has no idea, however, how bad that really was). PR is attempting to do some things to ease the pain.
> 
> And yes, PR maintains some kind of inconsistent defiance to H's request (based on what... principle? He's thinking I want what the other guy got). Going out of her way to make BH sexually satisfied are low end payments for what she's done.
> 
> But hey, she's still there, she's come about 1/3rd our way. Better than nothing and they might actually make it. Maybe.


I applaud PR's guts. Coming here first was a darn good move, so she could better understand the enormity of the shockwaves to come. It's great to read that they are giving it a go to keep their family together.


----------



## karmagoround

Galabar01 said:


> I'm sure PR will be back, with a fun zinger placed within a large paragraph.


I'm hoping that she dumped all her zingers, and only has twinkies left to tide us by.


----------



## Arkansas

karmagoround said:


> Hey Arkansas, I've not read your story. Congratulations to your success in reconciliation. I'm curious, did you get to have the special pleasure of meeting the OM and going out of your way to be cordial with the special friend?
> I'm guessing that for most, that would make reuniting impossible. For us, though we both wanted it. There was probably no way.


here it is - the answers are all in there but in a nutshell, when adulterers decide to go down that path they destroy everything and anything they have to in order to get what they want. Lie, cheat, manipulate, breach every ethic and moral they have ever known .... a person goes through mass changes to get down to that level .... the oddest thing is, that person doesn't consciously even recognize the mass changes because their mind is justifying









hurting, looking for men's advice with similar...


long story I married at 25 years old an 18 year old, wonderful person in 1995. Home schooled, as a young girl sexually abused. We had a daughter in 1999, lost a child in 2000 and had a son in 2001. She and I never did fight, and we also never really communicated well. I've always known that. No...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


----------



## Arkansas

karmagoround said:


> That would be a good perspective for her husband to take if he wants to try to make it work. The woman that did this to him no longer exists. Hopefully, PR puked up the bulk of her evil when it was revealed unto her.
> 
> If your analogy is correct and PR has changed significantly, then For PR, she can take all of the negative her husband is saying and give it to the woman she was. I think it would help if PR changed in every way her husband needs her to. By her own words, she sounds like she has some kind of mean streak in her.
> 
> From PR's posts about her husbands conditions. I'm reading that he is helping her be a better wife. It could happen that she goes along with it and weathers the storm so they can live happily ever after.



I don't know, I never was on the adultery end.

I do know that I self analyzed in the deepest of ways. For a person on my end of the cheating its feeling I wasn't good enough, I wasn't valuable enough, I was literally thrown into the trash because the person who I had given 100% faith and trust just didn't see me as having any worth. Hard part is realizing my worth never changed - what changed was my spouse

Purple Roses (unless always a cheater/liar etc) changed .... she left everything she was and became a person capable of living double lives. 

How does a person undo all that? I gave my ex every chance .... every opportunity. She was never going to let go of her adultery and I think that is the hardest part for someone to do. Maybe they think that adultery was real love, or that they deserved that time outside the marriage, or they blame the things their spouse did and so, that justifies what they did.

I don't think cheaters often really truly are sorry and remorseful for their actions. They might say the words because they don't want to lose half of that double life they had - the stable half - but they're not going to go full 100% and do everything possible to reconcile. Because in their hearts, they don't really feel 100% sorry

That's just my opinon.


----------



## Arkansas

PurpleRoses said:


> If he feels like the only way to appease him is to give up things that I love and make me who I am, then he would have no affection left for me. He would have every right to that emotion, it would be my fault, I would be extremely sad, but I would accept that I messed things up beyond repair.


with this quote I can almost promise that marriage is over and and she's already accepted its over

again, I can only relate to what I went through .... yes, PR is probably sad her marriage is over. She'll miss her family unit that no longer exists. I'm sure my ex did too 

but all that was know when my ex did what she did - PR knew it too .... it was just worth it and accepted, just like PR sayd

except the reality of it all when it starts is not what the mind expects ... like, when she realizes her inlaws will never have a relationship with her again, will that matter? when her kids look at her, and she see's in their eyes what they know she did ... that's tough. Being alone, financially and physically and mentally ... and questioning her own actions. Maybe she'll lose her own family members too, my ex did or at the very least they know she's not who she portrayed herself to be. If she's honest in the future, how will Purple Roses expect another man to trust her 100% and have faith in her? 

there is a reason the Bible says don't do it .... everyone loses, there are no winners


----------



## Rus47

Arkansas said:


> with this quote I can almost promise that marriage is over and and she's already accepted its over
> 
> again, I can only relate to what I went through .... yes, PR is probably sad her marriage is over. She'll miss her family unit that no longer exists. I'm sure my ex did too
> 
> but all that was know when my ex did what she did - PR knew it too .... it was just worth it and accepted, just like PR sayd
> 
> except the reality of it all when it starts is not what the mind expects ... like, when she realizes her inlaws will never have a relationship with her again, will that matter? when her kids look at her, and she see's in their eyes what they know she did ... that's tough. Being alone, financially and physically and mentally ... and questioning her own actions. Maybe she'll lose her own family members too, my ex did or at the very least they know she's not who she portrayed herself to be. If she's honest in the future, how will Purple Roses expect another man to trust her 100% and have faith in her?
> 
> there is a reason the Bible says don't do it .... everyone loses, there are no winners


It is a shame that Mr PR can't read this entire thread including all of the stuff PR wrote. If she had any integrity she would print the whole thing out and hand it to him to read. And especially your story to realize where he actually is and how little hope there is for his marriage to ever recover. The only way there would be even a microscopic chance of recovery would be if PR were striving to do all of the heavy lifting. As you recount, the BS doing the lifting is just a waste of time.

Every BS needs to pour through all the stories of others who walked their path before, and realize their efforts are better expended extricating themselves from the WS, and starting life afresh.


----------



## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> No, actually I don't have to agree to any demand. One of them was obligatory sex times. I'm sorry but nobody owns my body, I don't care what he or anyone else thinks about affairs, I will have sex if I feel like it and there is no more discussion on that. I can try to be more available but we are not keeping score or anything like that. I am willing to do a lot and agreed to a lot. Nobody, I don't care if there is a ring or not, has the right over my body. There is no debating this.


Wondering, 10 days later, if you still feel quite as strident about this? The tone is a bit reactionary and doesn't feel like you quite yet understand what your husband is feeling, how he's really doing. Hard lines drawn in the sand can send an unintended message to your husband, basically making him feel weak and helpless and question your resolve to reconcile. And, no matter how ridiculous you think it seems, he's likely thinking why "he" (OM) had a right to your body and not him (your husband). That's just the way the betrayed spouse thinks and feels, and telling the betrayed spouse that he's unreasonable is probably better done in the presence of a therapist.

In a nutshell, your husband doesn't have anyone on his side right now. He is very alone and very afraid and will try a lot of things, including puffery, out of desperation. When you look back upon your own words, you'll see some of that in yourself as well.



PurpleRoses said:


> I've told him everything, he thinks there's more. Not much I can say will change that.


Does he still think there's more that you haven't disclosed?


----------



## Casual Observer

Arkansas said:


> You will lose everything unless you lose your narcissist thoughts and selfish views and try in every way possible to undo what you're done.


Yes, but it's likely she has no idea what it really is that she'll lose. We take so many things in life for granted, things we pick up along the way, and it's really tough to try and measure the value of a loss beforehand... it's only after it's gone we fully appreciate what we had.


----------



## uphillbattle

Rus47 said:


> It is a shame that Mr PR can't read this entire thread including all of the stuff PR wrote. If she had any integrity she would print the whole thing out and hand it to him to read. And especially your story to realize where he actually is and how little hope there is for his marriage to ever recover. The only way there would be even a microscopic chance of recovery would be if PR were striving to do all of the heavy lifting. As you recount, the BS doing the lifting is just a waste of time.
> 
> Every BS needs to pour through all the stories of others who walked their path before, and realize their efforts are better expended extricating themselves from the WS, and starting life afresh.


He does know about the thread. I'm sure he could find it no problem if he wanted to.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Gabriel said:


> PR, it sounds like you are doing what you need to be doing. Going to therapy, helping your H out by doing what he asks to make him feel safer, etc. That's all good.
> 
> I also feel that you are in a lot of pain. I can't put my finger on it exactly. But my take (bear with me here) is that your life/marriage was "meh", "okay" nothing was wrong with it but it wasn't quite fulfilling enough for you. And you escaped that, had some thrill, and now, you are back to the mundane. Not only that, but along with the mundane is now this extra yucky stuff that requires you to follow rules you hate following, and your husband is now upset, whereas before, he was just fine. You also have the danger of being outed to people that have respected you and loved you.
> 
> So you are worse off than you were before this started. And that can be depressing. Especially when you didn't love your life before.
> 
> And now all these internet strangers are here ripping you apart, making you answer questions you don't want to answer. Or putting words in your mouth.
> 
> Tracking so far?
> 
> So at this point you have to decide between two options, really. And the sooner you make the decision the better you will feel. You either have to decide to eat the ****e sandwich you made, and do it lovingly, willingly, and with full vigor to save and reignite your commitment to your marriage/family/life with new appreciation (since your H is giving you the rare gift of potentially staying married in this situation).
> 
> Or, you need to just end it and start fresh.
> 
> When I read your words, I feel like you haven't decided yet. You're going along with option 1, but it's not lovingly, willingly or with full vigor. It's by force. And that won't work.


You're not completely wrong, closer to right. But I do love my husband and I do love my children. It isn't just all about me. I don't know if I was depressed, I would feel down sometimes, but not like depressed. And now, yeah, that is how I feel. I don't want to feel this way, but I do.


----------



## PurpleRoses

Mr. Nail said:


> PR, I agree that many here are "making you an offender for a word". That is leading you to not trust them. Fair enough.
> But, as I believe your intentions are good, I believe there's are as well.
> Finally, I live with a woman who I think doesn't love me. It is not a good life for me.


Why do you feel like that?


----------



## PurpleRoses

AttaBoy said:


> Oh, FFS! I missed this earlier. Did you really go at it as soon as you entered his place? Skipped right to dessert? PR, that screams of being primed and ready for action. There isn't an ounce of "I didn't plan for anything" in this.
> Do you see, your husband needs all of the truth or you are still living a lie. Still deceiving. Still denying him his agency.
> FWIW, I believe you have been treated more even handedly than most WWs that come to these pages with textbook affairs like yours.


No, I don't know why it would be important, but I was about to leave.


----------



## PurpleRoses

jsmart said:


> The enforced isolation that this pandemic has imposed have led to huge jumps in suicide, alcohol & drug abuse, as well as domestic abuse. What’s not discussed is that the extreme boredom have led other wise loyal people to be desperate for any stimulation, including extramarital.
> 
> Would purple have initiated the steps that led to her putting herself in a situation where she can say, it just happened. She said that she has never betrayed her husband. We here that often from both men and women. It was the first time I’ve ever done something like this. I guess that’s to assuage their guilt but her husband was in the same marriage through the same pandemic, yet he didn’t chase after any hot thing that he secretly crushed on. We alll have someone in our lives that we secretly crush on. Thankfully most of us are able to control our baser instincts.


I haven't said much about it because like you said, he was in the same pandemic and didn't do anything, but it really did contribute. I felt so isolated and lonely. It doesn't mean it was right, but it was a pressure I wasn't ready for.


----------



## Mr. Nail

PurpleRoses said:


> Why do you feel like that?


I want to take your question seriously, but I'm having difficulty.
Which feeling are you Questioning?
I believe that feelings often come without reasons why.


----------



## PurpleRoses

LATERILUS79 said:


> Your words are just so perplexing. I can't imagine being in your husband's shoes. I don't know why he puts up with it.
> 
> Yesterday you said how humiliated you were. Don't know what for, but really, it doesn't matter. Whatever humiliation you feel doesn't even come remotely close to the humiliation of knowing another man entered you. Nothing is more humiliating to a man. To add insult to injury, you made sure that your husband knew this guy was important enough in your life that he invited him to your surprise party. I can't possibly fathom how that news hit him like a ton of bricks. Knowing that he invited your AP to his own house to celebrate his sham of a marriage that the AP helped to destroy. Your humiliation is NOTHING compared to what your husband feels.
> 
> Secondly, it is clear your BFF is more important to you than your husband. It's important that you two can share all of your secrets in privacy. Like you said, "my best friend didn't say anything like a good friend should". I'd say take some time to think about that one. So, that means your secrets and your friendships are infinitely more important than your marriage and husband. That is essentially what you just said.
> 
> I can say without a doubt that if my best male friend called me to tell me he cheated on his wife, I would tell him he has 24 hours to tell his wife what he did and I'll be contacting her tomorrow 24 hours from now whether he tells her or not to confirm that the information is known by his wife. Why? Because I still love him and I think it would be best his wife hears it from him and not me - but that is NOT a secret I would keep. Why would I want a best friend who so callously hurts another human being? That is awful.


I am not going to resoond to this kind of thing anymore. I never said she is more important, I just said she is important. This isn't a him or her situation, so why even pretend it is? He doesn't want me to lose my friends. I don't even get where a thought like this comes from. I said really clearly that he doesn't have any issues with either of my friends. 

I know just saying this makes me defensive around here, but a lot of you really bang on about non-issues. His concerns are so far removed from my friends I wouldnt even know where to start. His issues are his confidence in me and his confidence in himself. A lot of them are sexual, but I can't talk about that without being accused of salacious intent. 

Really, there is no my friends against my husand and it's time to pick a side.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

@PurpleRoses , I am very concerned. I hope it is just your writing style, but the hostility and sense of entitlement jumps of the page. I hope it's just how you write and not as you are, because if this is your attitude towards your marriage and your husband, your husband will be much better off to be rid of you.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

I submitted before my thoughts were completed:

Now is not the time to defend any of your choices, because all of them brought you to where you are now. You will be well served to question your very core. The secrecy bubble you share with your friends must go. Any secrets you hold from your husband must be revealed to him. You by your actions have lost the right to them.

If your friends knew about your adultery before your husband and saw fit to keep the secret, they have to go.

Your job is where the affair was initiated. It has to go. If you are not willing to purge yourself from any remnants of this that might trigger your husband, now or in future, you have no business trying for a new relationship with your husband.

Right now, you aren't even married to him. You blew that marriage to smithereens. If you are not willing to be contrite and humble before the man you betrayed so egregiously, prostate and humble yourself to him in an effort to win his forgiveness and heart back, rather remove yourself from the presence of a good man and seek the meaningless passion you forsook him for hence forth.


----------



## Harold Demure

PurpleRose, LATERILUS79 made two points in his post.

The one you replied to was about the role of your friend. The other one was not so innocuous, the challenge to you comparing your humiliation to your husband’s. Are you going to respond to that?

Do you think your actions and the way you went about your betrayal show that, actually, you really do not love your husband and that you would both be better off divorcing?


----------



## PurpleRoses

Harold Demure said:


> PurpleRose, LATERILUS79 made two points in his post.
> 
> The one you replied to was about the role of your friend. The other one was not so innocuous, the challenge to you comparing your humiliation to your husband’s. Are you going to respond to that?
> 
> Do you think your actions and the way you went about your betrayal show that, actually, you really do not love your husband and that you would both be better off divorcing?


Mine was minor, but I never compared them or made some sort of, "now we're even" statement. I just said that I felt humiliated. So I didn' t answer it, because I never made the comparison in the first place. 

Look, I know how many of you feel, that having an affair proves you don't love your spouse, so there is no right answer to that, so what's the point? I did something awful and I want to make it better, so I'm not going to go on about how hopeless it all is. 

I didn't really think there were this many hurt people here with unresolved issues when I posted. That was my mistake and it is a mistake to continue this. I'm really just defending myself against other people's demons. I really have tried to talk about what actually happened and what is happening, but it just gets drowned out by a lot of hurt coming from other places. Infidelity does suck, and I'm sure it sucks more to be on the other side of it. I sincerely hope that everyone here finds some peace in their lives if they haven't been able to find it yet.


----------



## Harold Demure

I am sorry but I disagree that you are defending yourself against other people‘s demons. You are defending yourself against people’s adverse reactions to your apparent high handed, aggressive and self centred responses when people tried to initially help.

I would venture to suggest your responses turned people against you but, amongst that vitriol, people were/are advising you that your approach and manner is not going to help you make it better.

Perhaps, if you dropped the attitude and showed some humility, you may find people treat you differently and you get the advice you seek.

If not, well you quickly become yesterday’s news. Holding my breath? Not really.


----------



## Sufi22

PurpleRoses said:


> Mine was minor, but I never compared them or made some sort of, "now we're even" statement. I just said that I felt humiliated. So I didn' t answer it, because I never made the comparison in the first place.
> 
> Look, I know how many of you feel, that having an affair proves you don't love your spouse, so there is no right answer to that, so what's the point? I did something awful and I want to make it better, so I'm not going to go on about how hopeless it all is.
> 
> I didn't really think there were this many hurt people here with unresolved issues when I posted. That was my mistake and it is a mistake to continue this. I'm really just defending myself against other people's demons. I really have tried to talk about what actually happened and what is happening, but it just gets drowned out by a lot of hurt coming from other places. Infidelity does suck, and I'm sure it sucks more to be on the other side of it. I sincerely hope that everyone here finds some peace in their lives if they haven't been able to find it yet.


PR - if you are serious about fixing yourself this may no longer be the best forum for you to work on yourself. I'll repeat a suggestion I've made before: I think you should tell your story in the Wayward section of survivinginfidelity.com - it focuses on wayward looking to understand their own behavior and finding tools for effective reconciliation. In any case I would take (as you have) Gabriel's post to heart and decide where your commitment is.


----------



## LATERILUS79

PurpleRoses said:


> Mine was minor, but I never compared them or made some sort of, "now we're even" statement. I just said that I felt humiliated. So I didn' t answer it, because I never made the comparison in the first place.
> 
> Look, I know how many of you feel, that having an affair proves you don't love your spouse, so there is no right answer to that, so what's the point? I did something awful and I want to make it better, so I'm not going to go on about how hopeless it all is.
> 
> I didn't really think there were this many hurt people here with unresolved issues when I posted. That was my mistake and it is a mistake to continue this. I'm really just defending myself against other people's demons. I really have tried to talk about what actually happened and what is happening, but it just gets drowned out by a lot of hurt coming from other places. Infidelity does suck, and I'm sure it sucks more to be on the other side of it. I sincerely hope that everyone here finds some peace in their lives if they haven't been able to find it yet.


The fact that you are defending your actions at all speaks volumes. 

I sincerely hope your husband finds mental clarity and peace. 

So far, that doesn't sound like it can be provided by you. 

Best of luck.


----------



## karmagoround

PurpleRoses said:


> I haven't said much about it because like you said, he was in the same pandemic and didn't do anything, but it really did contribute. I felt so isolated and lonely. It doesn't mean it was right, but it was a pressure I wasn't ready for.


PR, 
I want to hear what you are doing to help your husband. What are you doing other than the bedroom and his conditions to make him know that he is special. 

Whatever magic words you are using, id love to read them. But don't share them here, lest ye be roasted further. 

PR, Are you a difficult person to live with? I mean to ask, are you seeking to be less selfish in other ways? 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


----------



## Casual Observer

PurpleRoses said:


> His issues are his confidence in me and his confidence in himself. A lot of them are sexual, but I can't talk about that without being accused of salacious intent.


There's something that might be really different about a spouse's wife having an affair, than a husband. 

For the most part, an attractive woman can "have" a whole lot of men with very little effort. If your interest was primarily sex (which for the sake of argument, we'll assume that's what your husband believes), then you'll have a pretty easy time having that interest satisfied. And your husband knows that. 

Your husband, on the other hand, has likely always had insecurities to some degree about sex. You might not realize that, or have tossed such thoughts aside because it's not something many guys would discuss. But he's probably thinking how his attractive wife really has it together sexually and can attract any guy she wants, while he has no such confidence in his own abilities at all. A guy is trained to do what he can to take care of the family so his wife sticks around. Seriously, this is a thing. A guy just doesn't have anywhere near the sexual confidence a woman might have. And even if the woman doesn't have that confidence, the guy believes she does.

So your affair taps into your husband's very worst fears. He's failed as a provider, and he's failed to sexually satisfy you as well. That's what he's probably going through. 

Do you know much about his past, prior to meeting you?


----------



## Asterix

PurpleRoses said:


> His issues are his confidence in me and his confidence in himself. A lot of them are sexual, but I can't talk about that without being accused of salacious intent.


@PurpleRoses, would you be willing to share some of the issues that he's facing, if you are comfortable with sharing? People here may help you to look at those from a different point of view and also likely how to help him get over that.



Casual Observer said:


> So your affair taps into your husband's very worst fears. He's failed as a provider, and he's failed to sexually satisfy you as well. That's what he's probably going through.
> 
> Do you know much about his past, prior to meeting you?


My worry is that this is probably some of the things that have been running in his mind. How often do you both sit down and talk about the issues that he's thinking about and what you can do to help him?


----------



## Arkansas

PurpleRoses said:


> I sincerely hope that everyone here finds some peace in their lives if they haven't been able to find it yet.


its been 2 1/2 years since I found out about my ex's adultery - the day my reality was totally shattered

some days it haunts me all day long, some days just parts of the day ... it is rare that I don't think about it

I still dream about it 5 of 7 nights of the week, not good dreams

what my ex did ..... I think today I will never escape it. Lewis Capaldi song says "I'm going under and this time I fear there's no one to save me " ......... that's me, and I think that's many others too. I didn't ask to be put in this situation - your husband didn't either. YOU chose that for him. Now, he has to figure out a way to make sense of it all, same as I did. 

I've tried telling you what you're husband is feeling, I don't know if you're listening or not and I don't know that it'd matter .... but it would be you TRYING to understand. What I'm saying in this post is you say you hope everyone finds their peace like its really easy to find after damn near everything they believed in this world was shown to be untrue.

You don't get that because you are the one that did the shattering. Can you fix it all? 100% NO - you can't. That damage is done and will always be. Can you do enough to make up for it all ? I don't think so but you can try


----------



## Butforthegrace

PurpleRoses said:


> I'm really just defending myself against other people's demons.


It's interesting that this would be your take-away here. Another way of approaching this could have been: "I realize this is an infidelity forum for people attempting to recover from infidelity, and I came here knowing this, hoping that I could possibly gain some understanding of what my husband is going through." You do realize that the demons that are tormenting betrayed spouses here, they are exactly the same demons now tormenting your husband. Emasclation, sexual humiliation, trauma. "I'm not enough of a man for my wife." If your goal is to reconcile and rebuild your marriage, you'd be well advised to understand and empathize with them rather than battle them.

On a small point, workplace gender interactions nowadays are fraught with peril for men. Any professional man who values his career knows to keep his interactions with female colleagues purely professional, lest he risk an allegation of sexual harassment that could derail or destroy a career. I've been alone in homes with many female colleagues over the years, and always kept it very professional ... except the few times when I didn't, when I (during my single years) actually had sex with a few female colleagues. Knowing the risks involved, I only did it where I was absolutely certain that a sexual move would be welcomed and reciprocated. A TON of pre-move flirting and sexual innuendo, way more than the threshold in a normal non-work environment.

I say that because your AP certainly didn't make his move in a vacuum. Which gets back to my point about compartmentalization and infidelity via line-crossing. Your first step to self-knowledge is to stop arrogating the conceit that "it just happened." That's simply not the reality.


----------



## Arkansas

Butforthegrace said:


> You do realize that the demons that are tormenting betrayed spouses here, they are exactly the same demons now tormenting your husband.


I don't think PR understand that at all


----------



## karmagoround

Sufi22 said:


> PR - if you are serious about fixing yourself this may no longer be the best forum for you to work on yourself. I'll repeat a suggestion I've made before: I think you should tell your story in the Wayward section of survivinginfidelity.com - it focuses on wayward looking to understand their own behavior and finding tools for effective reconciliation. In any case I would take (as you have) Gabriel's post to heart and decide where your commitment is.


PR is no longer wayward.


----------



## Rus47

Casual Observer said:


> So your affair taps into your husband's very worst fears. *He's failed as a provider, and he's failed to sexually satisfy you as well.* That's what he's probably going through.


This sounds like putting blame onto the guy who was betrayed. HE failed at nothing. SHE failed miserably as a wife and mother. SHE lied and cheated on someone she promised to be faithful to. And shows no signs of even caring about making amends for the damage SHE wreaked, so long as SHE has IC.

I didn't see anything posted to indicate he had failed as a provider. Where did that get mentioned?

And it takes two to tango, so any sexual problems they have are at least 50% PR's fault! Probably more, her attitude that comes through in her posts doesn't sound like being married to her would be any picnic. And he has lived through 20 years of it! 

He hasn't failed to satisfy her, she has failed to facilitate resolving whatever problems there were. Of course now, it makes no difference, most men wouldn't touch her with a ten foot pole after her escapades when she was supposed to be working a job.


----------



## Rus47

Arkansas said:


> I don't think PR understand that at all


And doesn't care. Zero empathy.


----------



## Casual Observer

Rus47 said:


> This sounds like putting blame onto the guy who was betrayed. HE failed at nothing. SHE failed miserably as a wife and mother. SHE lied and cheated on someone she promised to be faithful to. And shows no signs of even caring about making amends for the damage SHE wreaked, so long as SHE has IC.
> 
> I didn't see anything posted to indicate he had failed as a provider. Where did that get mentioned?
> 
> And it takes two to tango, so any sexual problems they have are at least 50% PR's fault! Probably more, her attitude that comes through in her posts doesn't sound like being married to her would be any picnic. And he has lived through 20 years of it!
> 
> He hasn't failed to satisfy her, she has failed to facilitate resolving whatever problems there were. Of course now, it makes no difference, most men wouldn't touch her with a ten foot pole after her escapades when she was supposed to be working a job.


Guess I wasn’t clear. He likely didn’t fail at any of those things. I was saying that’s what might be going through his head. The result, her cheating, is, _to him_, evidence of his failure.


----------



## colingrant

PurpleRoses said:


> I decided that I need to tell my husband about something that happened. I'm not even sure to begin, but one thing I'm really just not sure about. Can I ask him to forgive me? Or do I just tell him and let him express his feelings?
> 
> Part of me feels like asking him will pressure him to saying certain things, but if I don't ask he may think that I don't even want him to forgive me.


I realized although I've contributed to your post, I don't think I've answered your original question. The answers is, yes, it is fair to ask for forgiveness. Forgiveness the word is accompanied by actions. The person offended is being asked to extend grace and compassion to the offender. 

This is easier when the offender is humbled, contrite, remorseful and committed to acknowledging the offense and giving an extraordinary effort to heal the wounded and ensuring their emotional and psychological safety. This is the pathway to reconciliation. 

Being frustrated, uneasy or finding difficulty in taking responsibility pretty much nullifies a fair exchange of grace that allows the betrayed to feel :"safe" in the relationship which is a must in order to decide to reconcile and then actually reconcile. In some cases, these are two different questions with the first being deciding to reconcile then committing to take the steps leading to a successful reconciliation. Many say yes to the reconciling but aren't quite ready to take the steps needed. They say, it's not necessary or some other reason that fits their narrative. In reconciliation, only total remorse is the answer. 

For your husband, regardless of his disposition, this is an extremely tenuous situation for him. It's the decision to place his heart in your hands. With a recent track record of infidelity, this is a challenge of enormous proportions. In reading your posts it seems as if you have a chance to reconcile with him. Your ability to take exceptional care in a humble, non-defensive and remorseful manner regardless of the degree of difficulty will yield you the results you seek. 

When I was cheated on, it took four months or so for me to process what happened. Their is a period following disclosure that doesn't quite process right away for some reason. I've read it's natural for this to happen in a delayed fashion, so it's best to proceed knowing he may or may not feel the same way November 9th or December 9th. 

He'll process at his own speed, so just sit back and adjust to the levels of emotional ups and downs the best you can. If you haven't purchased books on how you can help your betrayed husband recover, then you might want to ask yourself what's root cause on why you haven't at this point. It's not uncommon for wayward spouses to not fully understand the enormity of their transgression so it would benefit you to know this and expedite your understanding of his pain and methods to remedy it.


----------



## jjj858

Can’t say I jumped in the sack with someone else just because of the pandemic. I didn’t know that losing all self control and agency to make rational decisions was a side effect. But how convenient.


----------



## Casual Observer

colingrant said:


> He'll process at his own speed, so just sit back and adjust to the levels of emotional ups and downs the best you can. If you haven't purchased books on how you can help your betrayed husband recover, then you might want to ask yourself what's root cause on why you haven't at this point. It's not uncommon for wayward spouses to not fully understand the enormity of their transgression so it would benefit you to know this and expedite your understanding of his pain and methods to remedy it.


There really is just one primary point here, something that could help PR and just about any other spouse who has strayed.

*Message to the betraying spouse:* Whatever you think your spouse is going through, it is so _*tainted by how you think they should behave*_, that you are completely blinded to the truth, the painful severity of it all.

It is somehow natural, and we see it here all the time, that the wandering/betraying/whatever spouse has an idea of how their betrayed should act. That is patently absurd and the sooner the betraying spouse realizes this, and stops reacting to demands as if they're simply unreasonable, the better any chance of reconciliation. Digging in your heels is not appropriate. And it gets worse. The person you want to reconcile with... your betrayal may have destroyed the person you loved.

You can't put time limits for when he or she will decide to "act reasonably." You can't tell them what to do. You can express concern, you can suggest counseling so they can determine if it's worth continuing. You can step back and watch how much of your spouse's life energy and ego was invested in you as you observe the wreckage.

But any time you think you've found a way inside your spouse's head, chances are, the depression and anger and angst and anxiety and helplessness that your spouse is actually feeling is orders of magnitude worse than you think.

So when your spouse comes home and finds you playing card games on your computer or watching a mindless TV show and you get snapped at because if you were taking the relationship seriously you'd be working on it more often... and you want to tell him or her that you didn't sign up for prison... it's probably over. It should be over.


----------



## Rus47

jjj858 said:


> Can’t say I jumped in the sack with someone else just because of the pandemic. I didn’t know that losing all self control and agency to make rational decisions was a side effect. But how convenient.


I would actually think the pandemic and all of the lock downs would strengthen a pair bond. Wife n I spent more time indoors together without the usual distractions of daily life, so yeah we jumped in the sack at times we would normally have been at the shopping mall or at a restaurant. It's like we look at one another and say "why not?". So yes, it was convenient lol.


----------



## Blondilocks

Rus47 said:


> I would actually think the pandemic and all of the lock downs would strengthen a pair bond.


It could also magnify any irritants which would normally be abated by time spent away from the house. It seems the lock downs have increased divorce filings.


----------



## Rus47

Blondilocks said:


> It could also magnify any irritants which would normally be abated by time spent away from the house. It seems the lock downs have increased divorce filings.


So, just quickened divorces that were likely in future anyway? Understand being confined to quarters with someone a person doesn't actually like would prompt a split.


----------



## ElOtro

karmagoround said:


> PR is no longer wayward.


Technically, may be she is not.
Else, still debatable.


----------



## VladDracul

Rus47 said:


> This sounds like putting blame onto the guy who was betrayed. HE failed at nothing. SHE failed miserably as a wife and mother. SHE lied and cheated on someone she promised to be faithful to. And shows no signs of even caring about making amends for the damage SHE wreaked, so long as SHE has IC.


My recommendation to Mr. PR is to, 1. realize that some women will always cheat. I had a couple of clients, married multiple times, that cheated with me, et al on all their husbands. 2. Understand the fact that PR, by her own admission, flirted throughout her marriage is a dead giveaway she needed more attention from men than he alone could give. Whether it was his negligence to understand women, and provide an acceptable level of want it took, Mrs PR clearly indicated it wasn't cutting the mustard and her romantic interest in him always was, or became insufficient, to make her not seek attention elsewhere. It wouldn't surprise me if Mr. PR was somewhat of a rebound guy 20 years ago. 
At any rate, knowing what he knows now, its his own fault if he stays in this situation. Considering the open flirting in front of him and now her affair, he need to consider if he wants to stay with her given the availability of other women. Mrs PR is apparently not willing to accept nor discuss the root cause of her flirting and ultimate doing.


----------



## SunCMars

marko polo said:


> Yes I know.
> 
> All that is left to do is engage with pleasant company and compare notes.


Add in some unpleasant and triggered bellyachers!


----------



## SunCMars

VladDracul said:


> My recommendation to Mr. PR is to, 1. realize that some women will always cheat. I had a couple of clients, married multiple times, that cheated with me, et al on all their husbands. 2. Understand the fact that PR, by her own admission, flirted throughout her marriage is a dead giveaway she needed more attention from men than he alone could give. Whether it was his negligence to understand women, and provide an acceptable level of want it took, Mrs PR clearly indicated it wasn't cutting the mustard and her romantic interest in him always was, or became insufficient, to make her not seek attention elsewhere. It wouldn't surprise me if Mr. PR was somewhat of a rebound guy 20 years ago.
> At any rate, knowing what he knows now, its his own fault if he stays in this situation. Considering the open flirting in front of him and now her affair, he need to consider if he wants to stay with her given the availability of other women. Mrs PR is apparently not willing to accept nor discuss the root cause of her flirting and ultimate doing.


Few, wish to discuss their shortcomings.

There is no winning consolation in knowing you are viewed, _as flawed._

A more self-centered women (as PR) would be hard to find.



_King Brian-_


----------



## Casual Observer

SunCMars said:


> Add in some unpleasant and triggered bellyachers!


Those "triggered" folk may have the most relevant content here, in terms of PR understanding where her husband's mind may be. Presentation is key; when the "triggered" go into attack mode, it can be ugly. I think mostly the "triggered" feel for a guy who desperately is in need of a type of help and assurance that the WS is not able to related to.


----------



## jjj858

PR also can’t understand it because her self esteem and view of her own attractiveness hasn’t been torn down by her spouse. Her AP reinforced that she is attractive (to him anyways) and that she is still readily able to snare another man. She can walk around day to day with that confidence. She already said it would be no problem for her to find someone else. That shows she has an element of arrogance to her personality. The husband is left questioning the last twenty years of his life. He’s left questioning his identity, his attractiveness, his sexual prowess, and his sense of manhood in general. She has torn him down with her selfish actions. 

And she says she’s here fighting against other peoples demons, ha.


----------



## karmagoround

I believe that this forum is the perfect place for a wayward such as PR to practice not being defensive. 
PR needs to be ready for when her husband triggers. What will her response be? 

If PR was practiced up on bringing her mind to a certain place when he triggers, then her responses could be more effective in helping her husband. Hoping to avoid a an escalating situation to the point that her husband says things that she then would have a hard time forgetting.

PR asserts that there is nothing that she can say here that wouldn't be hammered. I hope that she grows to be okay with that. As much progress as she has made, I'm not understanding some of her responses. I hope that she isn't talking to her husband in such a manner.


----------



## VladDracul

Casual Observer said:


> For the most part, an attractive woman can "have" a whole lot of men with very little effort. If your interest was primarily sex (which for the sake of argument, we'll assume that's what your husband believes), then you'll have a pretty easy time having that interest satisfied. And your husband knows that.


From my experience, attractive to average, a woman seeking something on the side can get something on the side. The fact that PR found a guy that wanted to bang her does not, in and of itself, indicate where she falls on the attractiveness scale. A women considered a 7 can attract ten times the potential partners and a man considered a 7. A woman generally want someone equivalent to or higher on the quality scale as she is. Men give themselves more latitude. That said, I tend to believe PR's paramour is likely higher quality on the attractiveness scale than she is.


----------



## karmagoround

Casual Observer said:


> There's something that might be really different about a spouse's wife having an affair, than a husband.
> 
> For the most part, an attractive woman can "have" a whole lot of men with very little effort. If your interest was primarily sex (which for the sake of argument, we'll assume that's what your husband believes), then you'll have a pretty easy time having that interest satisfied. And your husband knows that.
> 
> Your husband, on the other hand, has likely always had insecurities to some degree about sex. You might not realize that, or have tossed such thoughts aside because it's not something many guys would discuss. But he's probably thinking how his attractive wife really has it together sexually and can attract any guy she wants, while he has no such confidence in his own abilities at all. A guy is trained to do what he can to take care of the family so his wife sticks around. Seriously, this is a thing. A guy just doesn't have anywhere near the sexual confidence a woman might have. And even if the woman doesn't have that confidence, the guy believes she does.
> 
> So your affair taps into your husband's very worst fears.


I'll second that. And I think it's concepts like this that PR can bring to her counselor in hopes of finding a way to address her husband's fear in this regard. 

Unlike PRs husband, it wasn't until I packed my ex's bags that she remembered that I existed. The playing field has been leveled, and she was suddenly interested in what I was doing and where I was. 

What PR hasn't experienced is losing her husband's full dedication. Anything less could be so much crap for her. I hope that she doesn't lose sight of this.


----------



## ElOtro

jjj858 said:


> PR also can’t understand it because her self esteem and view of her own attractiveness hasn’t been torn down by her spouse. Her AP reinforced that she is attractive (to him anyways) and that she is still readily able to snare another man. She can walk around day to day with that confidence. She already said it would be no problem for her to find someone else. That shows she has an element of arrogance to her personality. The husband is left questioning the last twenty years of his life. He’s left questioning his identity, his attractiveness, his sexual prowess, and his sense of manhood in general. She has torn him down with her selfish actions.
> And she says she’s here fighting against other peoples demons, ha.


Amen


----------



## Casual Observer

karmagoround said:


> I'll second that. *And I think it's concepts like this that PR can bring to her counselor in hopes of finding a way to address her husband's fear in this regard.*
> 
> Unlike PRs husband, it wasn't until I packed my ex's bags that she remembered that I existed. The playing field has been leveled, and she was suddenly interested in what I was doing and where I was.
> 
> What PR hasn't experienced is losing her husband's full dedication. Anything less could be so much crap for her. I hope that she doesn't lose sight of this.


The problem is that PR can't and/or won't bring to a counselor things she either isn't aware of or make her feel worse about herself. This is stuff a counselor needs to be proactive about and assume is the case. How many counselors would do that? Especially since the IC is looking first and foremost at improving their client's self esteem and sense of worth. If you go in beating yourself up, the counselor is more likely to say hey, stop doing that, you have to look out for yourself too, as opposed to yeah, you've screwed up badly and have a ton of work to get through and it's going to be really unpleasant. And then an MC is going to be trying to apportion blame to each party, saying nobody's completely at fault.

And of course, this is just what I've heard "from a friend."


----------



## karmagoround

Casual Observer said:


> The problem is that PR can't and/or won't bring to a counselor things she either isn't aware of or make her feel worse about herself. This is stuff a counselor needs to be proactive about and assume is the case. How many counselors would do that? Especially since the IC is looking first and foremost at improving their client's self esteem and sense of worth. If you go in beating yourself up, the counselor is more likely to say hey, stop doing that, you have to look out for yourself too, as opposed to yeah, you've screwed up badly and have a ton of work to get through and it's going to be really unpleasant. And then an MC is going to be trying to apportion blame to each party, saying nobody's completely at fault.
> 
> And of course, this is just what I've heard "from a friend."


I take it at face value that PR came here looking for answers. I believe that the last she said about the counselors is that she is going to IC, and her H doesn't want counseling. 

She took some tough advice from this thread and applied it. Some of her latest questions were on restoring her husband confidence in bed. She says he is great, and want's to convince him of that. 

It's also good that you pointed out for PR: Watch out for counselors that tell you what you want to hear to keep you coming back. I'm guessing that PR doesn't have time for feelgood BS and find what will work to restore her husbands confidence, and in turn her confidence that she can be the one to make him happy.


----------



## manfromlamancha

PR I have read your entire thread - from the beginning where you demurely said you did something wrong with a man at work involving the "F" word (jeez!) and blaming it on stress, the pandemic and everything under the sun (apart from your compulsion to cheat and flirt and the lust in your loins at the time), right through to your current stance of being defensive, attacking anyone who calls a spade a spade and being rebellious against having to pay the piper in terms of behaviour and transparency,

Yours is actually a quite simple case and even though you say otherwise, here is the perceived truth and what comes across:


You cheated because you wanted to. And it is convenient to blame it on a number of things.


You have a background of doing what you want.


You claim to love your husband but do not really know what that means and yes, you do value your friends over him. I would go so far as to say that you would probably think twice about cheating on your friends, but unfortunately, not so with your husband.


You claim to understand the depth and impact of the wrong-doing but nothing you have said really supports this. Sure there are some that have tried to condone what you have done by armchair psycho-analysis as to the "hurt" you must have been in and are still in. That is just plain harmful to you! Also you say that if the situation was reversed you would be devastated. All of this suggests you really need some real help from a recommended analyst and not, as others have advised you too, someone who says what you want to hear so that you keep coming back.


You clearly fancied this OM and still do. Yet you still try to make light of it as if it was really nothing,


You do not really want to do what is needed to repair this marriage and convince your husband that you really deserve to stay. You feel resentful towards the things that you need to do.


Your flippant style of writing might be annoying but it also suggests a lack of real remorse and empathy for your husband,

So...

You should consider that you would really be better off being divorced and should grant your husband an amicable divorce. Then go work on the selfish nature that seems to dominate your actions and please, do not jump into a long term relationship with any unsuspecting man until you are fixed. After all, you do not need to be in a marriage right?


----------



## Casual Observer

manfromlamancha said:


> PR I have read your entire thread - from the beginning where you demurely said you did something wrong with a man at work involving the "F" word (jeez!) and blaming it on stress, the pandemic and everything under the sun (apart from your compulsion to cheat and flirt and the lust in your loins at the time), right through to your current stance of being defensive, attacking anyone who calls a spade a spade and being rebellious against having to pay the piper in terms of behaviour and transparency,
> 
> Yours is actually a quite simple case and even though you say otherwise, here is the perceived truth and what comes across:
> 
> 
> You cheated because you wanted to. And it is convenient to blame it on a number of things.
> 
> 
> You have a background of doing what you want.
> 
> 
> You claim to love your husband but do not really know what that means and yes, you do value your friends over him. I would go so far as to say that you would probably think twice about cheating on your friends, but unfortunately, not so with your husband.
> 
> 
> You claim to understand the depth and impact of the wrong-doing but nothing you have said really supports this. Sure there are some that have tried to condone what you have done by armchair psycho-analysis as to the "hurt" you must have been in and are still in. That is just plain harmful to you! Also you say that if the situation was reversed you would be devastated. All of this suggests you really need some real help from a recommended analyst and not, as others have advised you too, someone who says what you want to hear so that you keep coming back.
> 
> 
> You clearly fancied this OM and still do. Yet you still try to make light of it as if it was really nothing,
> 
> 
> You do not really want to do what is needed to repair this marriage and convince your husband that you really deserve to stay. You feel resentful towards the things that you need to do.
> 
> 
> Your flippant style of writing might be annoying but it also suggests a lack of real remorse and empathy for your husband,
> 
> So...
> 
> You should consider that you would really be better off being divorced and should grant your husband an amicable divorce. Then go work on the selfish nature that seems to dominate your actions and please, do not jump into a long term relationship with any unsuspecting man until you are fixed. After all, you do not need to be in a marriage right?


Ouch. Even the heavily-triggered folk here can deliver this message with a bit more hope.


----------



## Arkansas

Casual Observer said:


> Ouch. Even the heavily-triggered folk here can deliver this message with a bit more hope.


I think that post was spot on reality - lets not sugar coat what we're seeing here

I'm sure Purple Roses has a bit of empathy towards the damage she's done .... and what she's done is just now dawning on her because in the future (assuming they divorce) her kids will blame her, her friends will, her family will .... she will carry forever a scarlet letter of A


----------



## Marc878

Blondilocks said:


> I don't think Mrs. W. will be of much help. The last I heard, Mr. W. has entered the plain of lethal flatness and neither he nor his wife are happy about it. Five years down the drain.


From reading between the lines they are still together but that’s about it. It’s a pattern. Stay together as roommates.


----------



## Marc878

True reconciliation is rare from what I’ve seen. *It happens but depends on two people putting a lot of effort in.*
Mostly from what I’ve seen the BS upfront just wants them back but long term they end up with heartburn on what they got back. Rugsweeping just make it worse.

There is also the issue of the wayward getting a taste of infidelity. Repeated infidelity is not uncommon.


----------



## Blondilocks

Marc878 said:


> From reading between the lines they are still together but that’s about it. It’s a pattern. Stay together as roommates.


I would like to point out that Mrs. W took the same approach to revenge affairs as the OP. Mrs. W went so far as to say she might divorce Mr. W if he engaged in one. It seems rather obvious that when one person feels entitled to behavior that they prohibit their spouse from engaging in, then one person is going to feel like they got the short end of the stick. Entitlement and resentment will kill a marriage. Do not put yourself above your partner.


----------



## karmagoround

manfromlamancha said:


> and blaming it on stress





manfromlamancha said:


> Your flippant style of writing


I'm beginning to believe that PR has been under a lot of stress for a long time. Her level of defensiveness is so high. 
I think maybe she's wound up tighter than a sharp banjo, perhaps popped a string somewhere back there. 

I believe that PR actually said that she wasn't blaming it on the stress, pandemic and all that. She said that she believed that's what helped push her over the edge. And she was riding on the edge with the flirting and all. 

I believe that PR said "I know what my reasons were for having the affair, and they are not good." 
I understand why PR wouldn't share her reasons here. But if I had to guess, she was looking for a release. 

I think the hardest part for her husband, is that she told him what her actual reasons were for having the affair. I think now she want's to help him deal with that. 

No one here know what PRs H want's. She's still there, so I guess he still want's here there. 

There are success stories here. If a wayward was to recover her own fumble, I think PR did more than most for spilling all the beans. ...spilling all the beans she can see. She is going to IC to find the rest.


----------



## karmagoround

manfromlamancha said:


> PR I have read your entire thread


If you just read PR's entire thread...
I thought that I read one of PRs posts that said that her and her AP first met on the phone and became friends because they shared a common enemy. Then somehow met at yoga they had in the building, and that somehow his mat would always end up by hers. 

Did you read that in PR's discussion here? 

I'm older now and I might have some threads crossed.


----------



## Marc878

karmagoround said:


> If you just read PR's entire thread...
> I thought that I read one of PRs posts that said that her and her AP first met on the phone and became friends because they shared a common enemy. Then somehow met at yoga they had in the building, and that somehow his mat would always end up by hers.
> 
> Did you read that in PR's discussion here?
> 
> I'm older now and I might have some threads crossed.


They met at work.


----------



## SunCMars

The hardest thing for an attractive person to accept is the notion that their beauty has certain worth, while their other offerings seem that dearth.

What beautiful woman is first valued for her mind, or her skills?
Those qualities may be totally overlooked.

Those shadows that are overlooked, desperately wave their arms, sadly, and wildly.



_King Brian-_


----------



## marko polo

Marc878 said:


> The big elephant will always be in the room to a certain extent. From what I’ve seen most waywards dont get it because they weren’t on the receiving end. Her affair was another life. They were dating and having sex 2-3 times a week. Alone together in his apartment. The only reason she got caught was her BIL saw her walking down the street holding hands with the AP.
> I suspect this didn’t register upfront with her BS. Most don’t think long term.
> This maybe the new norm. Once an AP is brought into the marriage they never really leave. At least the thoughts don’t for a lot of BS’s.


Surprise, surprise the true reason motivating her confession - BIL saw her holding hands with the AP and she wanted to get ahead of the train wreck to follow.

If BIL had not seen her holding hands it would be business as usual with her and her AP while the husband would be left in the cold and the dark. True love.


----------



## Marc878

marko polo said:


> Surprise, surprise the true reason motivating her confession - BIL saw her holding hands with the AP and she wanted to get ahead of the train wreck to follow.
> 
> If BIL had not seen her holding hands it would be business as usual with her and her AP while the husband would be left in the cold and the dark. True love.


There was no confession. She got caught.


----------



## MattMatt

If you want to debate SI threads, TAM isn't the place for that?


----------



## Harold Demure

MattMatt said:


> If you want to debate SI threads, TAM isn't the place for that?


Fair enough MattMatt, was just hoping that PR’s husband doesn’t end up as a shell.


----------



## karmagoround

Harold Demure said:


> it is their husbands who have been given the life sentences.





Harold Demure said:


> Fair enough MattMatt, was just hoping that PR’s husband doesn’t end up as a shell.


The stories only verify what is the most valuable to so many in life. True Love. Lose that, and what's it all about.
And its a real bummer to realize late in life just how much time you spent thinking about this crap.

PR and her AP shared a glass of wine. So romantic. PRs husband may never get to enjoy another glass of wine again.


----------



## jjj858

karmagoround said:


> PR and her AP shared a glass of wine. So romantic. PRs husband may never get to enjoy another glass of wine again.


Nothing like going over to an opposite sex co-workers apartment who you already have a history of flirting with to “do some work on your laptop” and have a nice glass of wine. Men definitely don’t encourage women to drink to lower their inhibitions or anything and women definitely don’t drink for that reason too. Nope, nothing to see here.


----------



## karmagoround

jjj858 said:


> Nothing like going over to an opposite sex co-workers apartment who you already have a history of flirting with to “do some work on your laptop” and have a nice glass of wine. Men definitely don’t encourage women to drink to lower their inhibitions or anything and women definitely don’t drink for that reason too. Nope, nothing to see here.


PR was too much in this world and let herself get led astray. First with the little things, then everything. She didn't know that she could let herself be blinded.


----------



## Taxman

I have hesitated to post in this thread. I work as an accountant, in a firm that is part of a constellation of services to the divorced/divorcing. I have done this for over 40 years. I agree with past posters, the marriage was meh! Had room for improvement, however, your actions have severely injured the union and your spouse. I will not project what his actions will be, however, do not expect for this to quietly go away. I have had several males and females sitting in my office absolutely shell shocked at their spouse's reactions. I advise preparedness. I have seen violence from the formerly peace loving. I have seen revenge from quiet passionate people. I have seen people grey rock, and upend their spouse's worlds. I have seen parents alienate children. These are horror stories, BUT they arise from the horror that was committed inside the marriage.


----------



## Arkansas

Taxman said:


> I have hesitated to post in this thread. I work as an accountant, in a firm that is part of a constellation of services to the divorced/divorcing. I have done this for over 40 years. I agree with past posters, the marriage was meh! Had room for improvement, however, your actions have severely injured the union and your spouse. I will not project what his actions will be, however, do not expect for this to quietly go away. I have had several males and females sitting in my office absolutely shell shocked at their spouse's reactions. I advise preparedness. I have seen violence from the formerly peace loving. I have seen revenge from quiet passionate people. I have seen people grey rock, and upend their spouse's worlds. I have seen parents alienate children. These are horror stories, BUT they arise from the horror that was committed inside the marriage.



All of this is true - I spent the first 50 years of my life believing in vows, faith, trust, honesty ... I gave all that to 1 person and 1 person only

There isn't a 30 minute or 3 day reconciliation for the mind ... in understanding it was all a joke, a lie, a misconception and a game that was being played and you simply didn't know the rules or that there were other players getting on base and hitting home runs on your wife 

The adulterer cannot understand that and when they start losing friends, family, children ... they blame it on anything but themselves ....


----------



## EleGirl

The more current posts about the SI post are deleted. 

The moderator @MattMatt gave the first warning about this discussion.


MattMatt said:


> If you want to debate SI threads, TAM isn't the place for that?


This post is the second warning.


----------



## Rus47

Arkansas said:


> All of this is true - I spent the first 50 years of my life believing in vows, faith, trust, honesty ... I gave all that to 1 person and 1 person only
> 
> There isn't a 30 minute or 3 day reconciliation for the mind ... in understanding it was all a joke, a lie, a misconception and a game that was being played and you simply didn't know the rules or that there were other players getting on base and hitting home runs on your wife
> 
> The adulterer cannot understand that and when they start losing friends, family, children ... they blame it on anything but themselves ....


And what does the adulterer think about when they are old, wrinkled, grey, and no longer a "hot" property on the flesh markets. Friends, family, children ignoring them. I would think they spend their last days regretting. But maybe that is just my imagination that the Karma bus eventually runs them over.

The stories I enjoy is when the adulterer is cheated on by their AP.


----------



## Casual Observer

Taxman said:


> I have hesitated to post in this thread. I work as an accountant, in a firm that is part of a constellation of services to the divorced/divorcing. I have done this for over 40 years. I agree with past posters, the marriage was meh! Had room for improvement, however, your actions have severely injured the union and your spouse. I will not project what his actions will be, however, do not expect for this to quietly go away. I have had several males and females sitting in my office absolutely shell shocked at their spouse's reactions. I advise preparedness. I have seen violence from the formerly peace loving. I have seen revenge from quiet passionate people. I have seen people grey rock, and upend their spouse's worlds. I have seen parents alienate children. These are horror stories, BUT they arise from the horror that was committed inside the marriage.


I think there's kind of a "silent majority" of people with enduring patience, who go through their marriage thinking I can handle this, it's not a deal breaker, I'm strong enough to take this, it's not the hill I want to be buried on, etc. These people do what they need to to get the job done. They don't want to cause trouble and make waves. They're just too patient, perhaps too nice, too accomodating.

Until they aren't. Isn't there some saying about what happens when a patient person reaches their limit? That's what might catch betraying spouses by surprise. Their betrayed spouse still wants to be patient; that's their nature. But at some point they're stretched beyond any reasonable limit, and what they betraying spouse faces might not just be the "current event" but rather years of stuff held back that suddenly needs accounting for.


----------



## karmagoround

Taxman said:


> I will not project what his actions will be, however, do not expect for this to quietly go away.


PR came here looking for success stories. Got any happily ever after TAM discussions elegirl? 
Maybe the mod should have moved the thread to reconciliation a long time ago since that was PR's long term goal.


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## EleGirl

karmagoround said:


> PR came here looking for success stories. Got any happily ever after TAM discussions elegirl?
> Maybe the mod should have moved the thread to reconciliation a long time ago since that was PR's long term goal.


If you thought this thread should have been moved to reconciliation a long time ago you could have made a report with that suggestion. Moderators on TAM are volunteers. We do not read every single thread/post that is posted here. So we rely very heavily on members to report problems and/or make suggestions.

The SI thread discussion was reported by several members who are aware of the issues these sort of discussions have caused in the past.


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## karmagoround

EleGirl said:


> If you thought this thread should have been moved to reconciliation a long time ago you could have made a report with that suggestion.


Since a mod was posting to the thread, I assumed everything was okeydokey. Until same mod complained about a reconciliation thread appearing. Then I said move the thread to reconciliation.


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## Divinely Favored

Casual Observer said:


> I think there's kind of a "silent majority" of people with enduring patience, who go through their marriage thinking I can handle this, it's not a deal breaker, I'm strong enough to take this, it's not the hill I want to be buried on, etc. These people do what they need to to get the job done. They don't want to cause trouble and make waves. They're just too patient, perhaps too nice, too accomodating.
> 
> Until they aren't. Isn't there some saying about what happens when a patient person reaches their limit? That's what might catch betraying spouses by surprise. Their betrayed spouse still wants to be patient; that's their nature. But at some point they're stretched beyond any reasonable limit, and what they betraying spouse faces might not just be the "current event" but rather years of stuff held back that suddenly needs accounting for.


I am a very patient person. My wife has never cheated on me but she had did things that hurt, pissed me off or just did not like. I never said anything, the pain and resentment just grew. One dat the dam broke and years of ceap was dimped in her lap over 2-3 days. 

She was stunned to say the least. She felt like she really did not know me because i had withheld all those things that bothered me. We now communicate...good...bad...ugly. It is said. Marriage is 10x better now.


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## BigDaddyNY

I just read a post here on TAM comparing cheating to addiction. It makes a lot of sense and it reinforces some of the things people always say need to happen for reconciliation and have been brought up in this post. 

This includes 100% no contact with the AP. They are the drug dealer in this analogy. If you were a heroin addict trying to get clean you would want to put as much distance between you and your source as possible. You may be disgusted by that person thanks to the guilt of being caught, but that can easily change when you feel the need for another "fix". Remove that temptation. Quit your job, block numbers, etc. Same goes for those enabling friends. If you have friends that are also addicts (cheaters) or have hidden your addiction (affair) from others so you could keep up your habit, they need to go. 

Recovering addicts are very high risk for having a relapse. Same is true for a cheater. Why increase the risk of a relapse by staying near your dealer and enabling friends?


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## Gabriel

@PurpleRoses how are things going? Any improvements, or is it getting worse?


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## ArthurGPym

VladDracul said:


> From my experience, attractive to average, a woman seeking something on the side can get something on the side. The fact that PR found a guy that wanted to bang her does not, in and of itself, indicate where she falls on the attractiveness scale. A women considered a 7 can attract ten times the potential partners and a man considered a 7. A woman generally want someone equivalent to or higher on the quality scale as she is. Men give themselves more latitude. That said, I tend to believe PR's paramour is likely higher quality on the attractiveness scale than she is.


This why open marriages don't work. The wife starts off at an immediate advantage.


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## karmagoround

ArthurGPym said:


> This why open marriages don't work.


That ain't why!


ArthurGPym said:


> The wife starts off at an immediate advantage.


...unless it was the guys idea and he already had something lined up.


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## ArthurGPym

karmagoround said:


> ...unless it was the guys idea and he already had something lined up.


Granted, but the average young-adult male is short-sighted and doesn't take into account that his partner will attract 10 times as many sexual partners as he will, simply because she has a vagina. You are right: most guys who ask for an open marriage already have a gal lined up, or they are already cheating. That titillation lasts only for a while; up until they see their wife getting dolled up twice a week to go out and get plowed by some stranger. Then it's not fun anymore. The guy realizes he screwed himself into a corner he cannot get out of.


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## jjj858

A guy who is a 7 couldn’t even attract as many prospects as a woman who is a 3 or 4.


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## Imnobodynew

PR,

I have been making excuses as to why I didn't want to post to your thread. I didn't feel like I would really bring anything to value or any wisdom here. So I procrastinated lol. After reading your responses and the others reactions to your responses, I'd like an opportunity to share from my own experiences.

I had a rough background. Like worse than most. Molested, abandoned as a teenager, homeless, stolen from, hurt, cheated on, etc.... All before I turned 20ish. I started a life change around 21. I started to believe there was a God (became a Christian), became more moral and grounded. I stopped jumping from relationship to relationship and became more self secure.

I met my wife in my early 20s. After a whirl wind relationship that lasted 3 months and resulted in a pregnancy. We moved in together and got married. I thought it was all just going to be magical. We had some communication issues, sex wasn't an issue, and felt we were ok. Well my wife started acting strange around the 7/8 year mark. turns out she was becoming emotionally attached to a classmate in her masters class. I was struggling massively it with My health at the time. I broke. It hurt. I was frightened, struggling with abondment, wondering what I should do. I reacted horribly. I rug swept in our marriage but I started talking to another woman online to fill the gap. When the other woman begged to come and pick me up, I told my wife. It was like a child trying to do at tit for tat type thing. I cut off the other woman. After confessing to my wife , which hurt her, we reaffirmed our relationship and moved on. Again we rug swept. We didn't want to really deal with the issues but wanted just be....


7 years later all hell broke lose. My wife started acting strange again. I knew these signs. When she came to talk to me, my defense mechanism kicked in. I went crazy. I affaired down with a slutty women. It went on for 3 years. It was a revenge/exit type. Well during time I felt horrible. I don't why anyone can live this. That feeling like you had to hide front the world, the lust without love, the cheapness of it all. The longer I was there the more disgusting I felt. I couldn't resolve my feelings and I definitely didn't deal with myself or my own issues. I felt like a crazy person. Numb on the inside and smiley on The out. I was a liar, a cheater, and someone who didn't care. I was disgusted with myself, and I felt trapped.. My affair partner was a loose cannon. Ready to blow my world apart.

My wife finally approached me and I ended it. I was tired, lost, and done. Like and alcohol or a drug addiction that had hit rock bottom.. I was pretty disappointed and disgusted with myself. I got IC and we both worked hard on our issues. I learned I had developed survival technique that didn't work if I wanted a good life. Read books. Read forums... Did everything I could that sounded sane. Lots of prayer and meditation etc....it was hard work, terrifying work. Being vulnerable and real with yourself is counterintuitive for people like me. It was easier to hide the real me , to not make waves. To say what I really felt or meant. Admitting that I needed outside affirmation. Wanting to be spoiled. Oh the list goes on. I found out like you, I would like at other people I found attractive as an escape to dealing with my own sh1t. As a child I learned that warranted a belting, as an adult I had to learn that if I didn't I couldn't grow and would die inside. it took years of spec motivation, self drive, and hard work with accountability on both of our sides to fix this.


Its been 7 years. I went on a trip to see my son. I didn't look at women. Didn't delve into porn or Harbour strange thoughts. When I got home my wife were discussing openly how far we've come and where we are going. I didn't have the drive to get my ego stoked on the outside. I work on my self security and not put up a front. Every day I wake up and reaffirm my attraction to and how beautiful my wife is. Really when you put it all together, she is the most beautiful woman. She can be honest with me now. She can be open. The sex is great. We can hope for a future together. How can I not want that!? She does the same. We hear how covid has been horrible to some couples, ironically we have gotten closer. It not all roses and unicorn poop. Its hard work. I work hard on being honest at all times. I work hard at reminding myself what I can can't control. I work hard on just being ok. sometimes this causes conflits. Conflitcs weren't the problem, it was resolving them that mattered. I work hard on loving my wife, enjoying her company in its entirety. And i found love, real love, not feelings is hard work. Feelings can come and grow, but love continues to grow if you labour with it. Love, to me is also the most rewarding work.

Btw. We have up everything that could lead us back down this road. We left our careers, cut out friends, even minimized family who were not friends of the marriage. The result was an environmental that encourages us to rely on each other, talk to each other, and love each other. We both make more money now then ever before. Work less hours in our new careers. Even better yet we both own our own businesses 

Be brutally honest with yourself. Take criticism. Grow from your bad choice. If you hide from it, your growth will become stunted. It will happen again.

Hope this helps a bit.

Edited for bad typos lol


----------



## Divinely Favored

ArthurGPym said:


> Granted, but the average young-adult male is short-sighted and doesn't take into account that his partner will attract 10 times as many sexual partners as he will, simply because she has a vagina. You are right: most guys who ask for an open marriage already have a gal lined up, or they are already cheating. That titillation lasts only for a while; up until they see their wife getting dolled up twice a week to go out and get plowed by some stranger. Then it's not fun anymore. The guy realizes he screwed himself into a corner he cannot get out of.


Dont understand open...im a violently monogamous male. If wife wanted open marriage...she could go for it but we would no longer be intimate and i would start intetviewing for her replacement as she would be considered resigned.


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## Imnobodynew

I feel open marriages might work for some, but its usually a cope out for most to not deal with issues.my own opinion though from my own work.


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## Casual Observer

Imnobodynew said:


> Be brutally honest with yourself. Take criticism. Grow from your bad choice. If you hide from it, your growth will become stunted. It will happen again.


This, a thousand times this. The bad stuff you did in the past is supposed to be a learning experience, something that helps you to grow. When you pretend it didn't happen, don't want to think about it, you remain who and where you were. The cycle will either repeat or you will poison future relationships in other ways because you're hiding things. I am so happy things worked out for the two of you, but you're an exception, because the odds of even just a single person recognizing their lack of growth due to rug sweeping is very low... in your case, it was both of you.


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## VladDracul

Imnobodynew said:


> I feel open marriages might work for some, but its usually a cope out for most to not deal with issues.my own opinion though from my own work.


Open marriages work better for women that are <5 to 7 and men who are = >7. Women by and large go for men who are in their league or better. Men are much less discriminating and a man who is an 8 can have a lot of sexual fun with a grade 5 woman. A woman generally will have no sexual interest in a man of a lower than her on the attractiveness scale. Hence the reason I speculate that Ms. PR's lover and likely her husband is equally or greater on the attractiveness scale as her.


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## Imnobodynew

I think open marriages discussion is a detractor to his thread. I also disbelieve the scale theory. That's putting people in a box. I think everyone can cheat. 
Open marriages are not solutions to a bad problem, it's like an alcoholic dating I'm just that way. Again not saying all open marriages suffer from this, but stats and personal anecdotal information from my own experience point to this. 

Monogamy I feel take work, imagination &honesty and persistence. And most all, imo, a good ethical and value base.


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## Taxman

Please, let us not descend into a discussion of open marriages. I have NEVER seen one last long term. I have ALWAYS seen them as self destructive. Very few people are emotionally evolved enough to separate sex from love from marriage and have a successful relationship. Sooner or later, this comes out. Sooner or later, this becomes part of an argument or worse. Sooner or later, the couple closes the marriage or splits. Those last three statements are engraved in stone as far as my experience goes.


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## VladDracul

"Very few people are emotionally evolved enough to separate sex from love"

Seems strange we consider separating sex from love as emotionally evolved. Even looking back at my days in "the business" the best sex has always been with the chick who understood me the best and the one with an emotional as well as a sexual connection. After nearly 30 years together and many (prior) to compare her to, my wife is the undisputed champeen.


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## jlg07

Yeah, I agree Vlad -- I don't think separating sex from emotions is "emotionally evolved" AT ALL.
Just having sex as a physical thing -- even animals do that, so I don't see the evolution at work there.


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## Tested_by_stress

My guess is that PR's home life has imploded in the aftermath of what she has done. I wouldn't be surprised if we've heard the last of her.


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## Casual Observer

Tested_by_stress said:


> My guess is that PR's home life has imploded in the aftermath of what she has done. I wouldn't be surprised if we've heard the last of her.


She was here just a day ago. I hope she can find value in what the more-triggered among us can offer her. An understanding of what her husband is going through and how he’s unable to really show it.


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## VladDracul

CO, what value do you think she needed and didn't find? Honestly, I don't think PR is really the PR she'd have us believe.


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## PurpleRoses

I just don't see the point of keeping this thread going, it went off in directions which I never intended. Most anything being discussed is nothing close to the issues me and my husband are having. I can see it's now moved into open marriages and rating scales for crying out loud. 

I really do wish you all peace of mind and I don't think any of my feelings are contributing to that.


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## Imnobodynew

So I guess you didn't read my prior post... sorry. I would continue to post. Pick through the bad for the good. Take the 2x4s. Bounce off your questions to those of us who have something to offer... etc.. it's like that in life. You have to screen people around you. Take the good and leave the rest. I think the thread jack is going away. But that's me.

I was hoping to have an open discussion with you here. Give some insight and encouragement. Affairs are horrible but you can deal with them. My wife and I are proof of that.

I pray for your success. Again dont rug sweep, take criticism, and dont run away from your fatal flaw.
Hope the best for you.


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## Blondilocks

PurpleRoses said:


> I just don't see the point of keeping this thread going, it went off in directions which I never intended. Most anything being discussed is nothing close to the issues me and my husband are having. I can see it's now moved into open marriages and rating scales for crying out loud.
> 
> I really do wish you all peace of mind and I don't think any of my feelings are contributing to that.


You can always request a moderator to lock the thread. If you don't know how, I'll do it for you. Just jingle.


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## EleGirl

PurpleRoses said:


> I just don't see the point of keeping this thread going, it went off in directions which I never intended. Most anything being discussed is nothing close to the issues me and my husband are having. I can see it's now moved into open marriages and rating scales for crying out loud.
> 
> I really do wish you all peace of mind and I don't think any of my feelings are contributing to that.


Threads sometimes go off in thread jacks. Usually someone reports it and a moderator will put a stop to the thread jacks.

If you want the thread closed, I can do that. 

I will give a warning for people to stop thread jacking and to only reply directly to your issues. That way you could continue posting.


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## EleGirl

Hey you all, apparently the there are some significant thread jacks on this thread leading to PurpleRoses and her issues not getting the support needed. Stop the thread jacks. If you post on this thread, post directly to @PurpleRoses 

PurpleRoses or any other use can report any further thread jacks and a moderator will clean it up.


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## BigDaddyNY

PurpleRoses said:


> I just don't see the point of keeping this thread going, it went off in directions which I never intended. Most anything being discussed is nothing close to the issues me and my husband are having. I can see it's now moved into open marriages and rating scales for crying out loud.
> 
> I really do wish you all peace of mind and I don't think any of my feelings are contributing to that.


Things can definitely go off the rails in these threads. It will tend to stay a little more on track if the OP sticks around.

That said, Im not sure how much more you would get from this thread if it does stay on topic. You don't seem receptive to anything anyone has been telling you. It is all arguments, pushback and excuses about about you don't have to do this or that. Unless you are making some extraordinary progress in therapy I think you are only prolonging your husband's pain by staying married to him. How is your husband coping lately?


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## Casual Observer

@PurpleRoses I think the best “value” we can bring to you is an understanding of how your husband has been affected. What you do with that, that’s up to you. But your husband’s perspective is not something you can relate to.

This has nothing to do with judging your actions, then or today.

How do you think he’s holding up? In what ways has he surprised you? If you had to gauge his emotions since d-day, have they been stable or hugely variable?

Do you think he’s better off with you? If so, have you articulated why, to him?

wishing all of your family the very best.


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## QuietGuy

PR, I think it would help if you posted more updates on how things are going for you and your husband. It would reduce the speculation and help keep people focussed on the actual situation. I have seen similar going off topic on other threads when the feedback from the OP slows down or stops. I think in general you have been brave so far.


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## Asterix

@PurpleRoses you are not going to get answers to the questions that you didn't ask. 

If you describe the situation and ask your questions here, people will do their best to answer. Those answers may not always be what you want but then you have a choice of taking it or ignoring the answers. 

I hope you are doing well and that you and your husband are working on finding the middle ground.


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## karmagoround

PurpleRoses said:


> now moved into open marriages and rating scales for crying out loud.


I thought that part of the thread was an important answer to your question on how to help your H know that you are his. And the common thought, at least for me and other men is that we don't stand a chance out on the street if two committed really weren't. Go back and read it again for an explanation and the responses have valuable info there too. Though you might not feel the topic applicable to your situation, the feelings can be there in the bedroom, making him feel less masculine.


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## karmagoround

PurpleRoses said:


> I really do wish you all peace of mind and I don't think any of my feelings are contributing to that.


Yours is an important discussion. I know I'm learning from it, and I think you've used some concepts that you learned here to keep your H from going crazy on you. 

All the same, I think that this discussion should be moved to "Reconciliation", since that's what the OP is trying to do. I tried notifying moderators.


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## headbang

I created an account because of this post and after all that has been said and the time it passed I would just like to add the following.

The OP clearly cares for her husband and seems to be making an effort to make it work.

But it seems to me that the effort is not because she loves her husband. It's because she loves the life they have build together. Their children wellbeing, their wealth, their careers, their social circle, the support system. Everything. Esther Perel makes a career of catering to women like the OP.

I do think it all that if she could keep all that minus the husband she would do so due to the resentment she expresses at the consequences of her actions. You were bored? Well, you sure doesn't seem to be bored now. (this is something in line with what Perel said in one of her videos)

I also get a feel that the OP controls the relationship. She seem to come here for a way to get over this in a way that her guilt diminishes with the least amount of damage. But I get the nagging feeling that she knows that it would be unlikely that her husband would flip the table and break up the marriage. So, how to get over this without costing my lifestyle too much. That is not conducive to a reconciliation.

In any case what is scary about this story is that the OP isn't a unintelligent or inexperienced person. She is in her forties yet she jumped through all the hoops and still thought "this is just some confidence boosting, slightly inappropriate flirting." Not saying this to bash her, but if a woman her age couldn't see a mile away where she were getting into, then I hope she continues the therapy so that she's able to make conscient choices instead of letting the choices make her. And the fact that it was with a known person to the husband is beyond me. I've done many things I regret in my life and the only "at least" I give myself is that I had the tiny bit of shame and respect not to do it close to home or with a woman whose partner I knew (even if not friends).

Oh, and even if that happened, I would have the curtesy of becoming invisible if the husband came to know. What kind of douchebag doesn't care? Even if he feels like an alpha as opposed to a beta, basic decency should still apply even in the carrousel of s**t that affairs usually are. It takes a very arrogant, entitled person to keep pursuing a married woman that has stated "no more." So, apologize for the barb here, congrats on her judgement of friends to associate with.

Anyway.

To the current situation, I think she really has to think about what is being salvaged: the marriage or the lifestyle. If it's the later, separation. From her posts the only dependents are the children and they are teens. They can get over a divorce, but a toxic relationship is harder.



Edit: English is not my first language so apologies for the poor grammar.


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## VladDracul

QuietGuy said:


> PR, I think it would help if you posted more updates on how things are going for you and your husband. It would reduce the speculation and help keep people focussed on the actual situation. I have seen similar going off topic on other threads when the feedback from the OP slows down or stops. I think in general you have been brave so far.


Reminds me of the stock market where the less liquid the market, the more and bigger the gaps occur. Where they occur some believe they are always filled. Kinda what appears to be going on here. PR is "less liquid" with her updates and somebody's going to step in and fill the gap. PR, if I can talk you into it, I really like to know how your efforts to restore your marriage is going. You've played it might close to the chest milady.


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## Imnobodynew

You guys have a point. I think PR might just be in self preservation at this point. When You feel guilty and you did something wrong and understand that you have lost something precious, but so desperately want to grasp at straw shields

Purple Roses:

I made my post earlier to make a point. Own the scarlet letter. It's the only way to change. You can get the golden letter patch, but that takes a lot of work. Part of understanding that you did something like this, is that it wasn't a mistake. It was a conscious, deliberate action. It was premeditated from the flirting to the grooming. You are that person.

When you can accept that change happens. But not until. You will "white knuckle it". It will happen again. Maybe not to this extreme at first but a little by little it can and will try to creep back. It be on the back of your mind, a flicker of a thought. A smile, a touch, will leed you back to a tiny bit of flirting. Seeking compliments they start to build up. Then it happens again. This is why most. cheaters can't change. It was never dealt fully dealt with. When your protect your ego, you protect the very thing that allowed you to cheat in the first place. 

Before you can really change listen to people and look at the pain in suffering they have experienced and Empathize. When you look at the actions through their eyes and experiences you start to see more of the puzzle. You start to see more of the real you reflected back, not the ego protected image you had of yourself. That false image that allowed you to cheat. You said in the earlier post, as many cheaters do, you don't know why you did it. You did it because deep down you are that person. It never got dealt with out in the open, so there were no real fall back or positive tools, including accountability, to protect you from making this decision.

Choices are a result of reactions to our reality. Reactions are a result of your self programming. Programming has an old saying "garbage in, garbage out". To not make garbage choices, you have to reprogram the system, change the code itself.

"A leader with many advisers conquers"-
Solomon

But real empathy can only happen when you set aside your ego. Just like real change only happens when you are humble enough to fully accept the problem


----------



## Arkansas

headbang said:


> not because she loves her husband. It's because she loves the life they have build together. Their children wellbeing, their wealth, their careers, their social circle, the support system. Everything.


absolutely spot on and it abuse to the husband for being like the above - he believed they had something that wasn't really real, he was taken advantage of, mistreated, used, manipulated and its abuse


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## Buddy400

VioletElle


----------



## jonty30

SRCSRC said:


> Without knowing much of the story regarding our marriage our MC automatically blamed me for 1/2 of my ex-wife's affair. After two weeks of finding out about the affair, the therapist chastised me for not getting over it. I was young and dumb in spite of my rather substantial education. She kept the marriage together and said point blank to me that my ex-wife would never cheat on me again. She might act out in other ways, but she will never cheat again. I believe she started cheating on me not too long after we left therapy. I finally caught her red-handed six years later. I don't feel it would be fair of me to indict all MCs, but I have read similar complaints from other betrayed spouses. That is why many recommend that the WS and the BS seek therapy separately with different ICs versed in infidelity.


I have a two fisted response to any therapist who tells you to get over infidelity.


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## jonty30

PurpleRoses said:


> He insisted that we were still doing it. I think it was really hard for him to organize it, he isn't the most social person and they are mostly my friends, the idea of calling it off was overwhelming to him. He wouldn't even consider it. It wasn't as stressful as I thought it was going to be. We still have a lot to celebrate and be thankful for over the past 20 years, that was the focus of the night. Call it rug sweeping if you want, but I think it was less stressful for him to go through with it than not. I can't really switch places, I could say I would have done this or that, but I don't really know. I probably have a shorter fuse and I wouldn't care who knew what he did, but he isn't like that, I don't see the point in stressing him out over that. He isn't bottling everything up, he just hasn't been abusive. He's having a really hard time with the other guy having seen me naked, amongst other things. I don't know what's going to happen, but I know I can't undo it. I had no idea how much of his own self worth he placed on me. I'm realizing it now and I don't know what to do about it. All the other stuff, like no contact or whatever is easy for me. I'll ask him if he needs me to write a letter or whatever, I don't know it seems like that's more contact than I even want with him. And why invite the drama? He still wants to have sex with me. I told him it was over and all the reasons, that I told my husband and he doesn't care. What do you say to that? I figure nothing is better than something. I could never put my family through this again. I know I need help and I'm going to see a therapist and hopefully find out exactly what's wrong with me. It should have never happened in the first place.


You tell your AP that any contact with you is going to be reported to HR. That's if you are contrite about what happened. 
I don't know if your business can enforce that outside working hours, but the police certainly can if he tries to make unwanted contact with you.


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## jonty30

Casual Observer said:


> You need to elaborate on this remark. What do you mean by it?


It means that she knows he wouldn't cheat on her. She's secure, so she wouldn't care if he put a tracker on himself.


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## jonty30

Casual Observer said:


> There's something that might be really different about a spouse's wife having an affair, than a husband.
> 
> For the most part, an attractive woman can "have" a whole lot of men with very little effort. If your interest was primarily sex (which for the sake of argument, we'll assume that's what your husband believes), then you'll have a pretty easy time having that interest satisfied. And your husband knows that.
> 
> Your husband, on the other hand, has likely always had insecurities to some degree about sex. You might not realize that, or have tossed such thoughts aside because it's not something many guys would discuss. But he's probably thinking how his attractive wife really has it together sexually and can attract any guy she wants, while he has no such confidence in his own abilities at all. A guy is trained to do what he can to take care of the family so his wife sticks around. Seriously, this is a thing. A guy just doesn't have anywhere near the sexual confidence a woman might have. And even if the woman doesn't have that confidence, the guy believes she does.
> 
> So your affair taps into your husband's very worst fears. He's failed as a provider, and he's failed to sexually satisfy you as well. That's what he's probably going through.
> 
> Do you know much about his past, prior to meeting you?


In the dating world, the top 20% of men share 60% of the women. It's an informal harem. The bottom 80% of men just cannot go get a woman when they want to. For many of the 80% of men, the real relationships are few and far in between and often their first time for any extensive sexual experiences will come through marriage. This is is part of the reason why men are so traumatized when their wives have physical affairs.

A reasonably attractive woman will almost always have somebody willing to have sex with her anytime she wants, if she just makes herself available.

This is why PurpleRoses is not concerned about where her husband is, he's not in the top 20% of men that women want, so he would not really be able to get into an affair if he wanted to. It's one of the reasons she was likely attracted to him, because he was safe. She didn't have to worry where he was if he was out of the house for a three hour period. She might feel differently if he started paying prostitutes. I suspect that she would feel a lot different if she knew he was spending a couple hundred dollars a month for sexual services.


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## jonty30

When I say this, I want it clear that I am not holding the husband responsible. I'm just noticing something that I think important for general discussion.

Purple Rose's husband, as mentioned was a stoic man. Stoic men are great for many things. There is nobody in the world that you'd want more as a spouse to take care of you, if you cannot take care of yourself. They will happily do everything during times of crises and not feel stressed about it. They are willing to sacrifice their entire free time for the sake of the spouse. However, they are not the most demonstrative of spouses. To a spouse, they might seem like an unreadable wall at times, although the truth is that they feel very deep emotions deep inside. They keep it bottled up and only release those emotions on occasion. To a stoic person, they express their love just being present. They aren't very demonstrative and they may not be inclined to say much or show much, but they are capable of the deepest of loves for their spouse.

To somebody who is demonstrative in their love language, they may not pick up on signs that their stoic spouse loves them, because their stoic spouse is not expressing it. This can lead to doubt about the love the spouse has for her. Purple Roses expressed that she felt lonely. I think she probably didn't feel loved in her love language and it made her needy in what she needed demonstrated. To be clear, she made choices and is responsible for her choices.

All I can say is that, if you're a stoic spouse who is married to a demonstrative person, be more demonstrative. If you're a demonstrative person, take responsibility and lead your stoic spouse into showing them how you want to be loved.


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## Asterix

"Last seen 7 days ago" as of the date of this post.

I think that Elvis has left the building.


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## jonty30

Asterix said:


> "Last seen 7 days ago" as of the date of this post.
> 
> I think that Elvis has left the building.


She seems to pop in once in a while, so she may see the new postings yet.


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## ArthurGPym

Everybody needs to get of her back. She is who she is and she is not going to change. She has gotten some good advice and she can use what applies and what doesn't. Her husband knew the package he was buying when he married her. If I married an exotic dancer, I wouldn't go crying to others when she cheated on me. 

Purple's husband knew she put herself number one over all others when he married her, so he shouldn't expect the zebra stripes to suddenly shift direction. Lots of very successful men and women in our society have made good lives for themselves with this same attitude towards life and have been lauded for it. Can you blame her?


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## Diana7

ArthurGPym said:


> Everybody needs to get of her back. She is who she is and she is not going to change. She has gotten some good advice and she can use what applies and what doesn't. Her husband knew the package he was buying when he married her. If I married an exotic dancer, I wouldn't go crying to others when she cheated on me.
> 
> Purple's husband knew she put herself number one over all others when he married her, so he shouldn't expect the zebra stripes to suddenly shift direction. Lots of very successful women in our society have made good lives for themselves with this same attitude towards life and have been lauded for it. Can you blame her?


Cant you be successful and not put yourself first?


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## ArthurGPym

Diana7 said:


> Cant you be successful and not put yourself first?


These days I wonder. She seems to not thinks so. Our culture seems to trend towards rewarding narcissists.


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## AGoodFlogging

Diana7 said:


> Cant you be successful and not put yourself first?


Depends how you measure success.


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## gr8ful1

ArthurGPym said:


> Our culture seems to trend towards rewarding narcissists.


So true. Exhibit A: Jeff Bezos. I’d like to think I’m the exception - I am extremely successful (not a billionaire by any means tho) so I know it’s possible at least to succeed without being a complete asshole all the time.


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## Rus47

gr8ful1 said:


> So true. Exhibit A: Jeff Bezos. I’d like to think I’m the exception - I am extremely successful (not a billionaire by any means tho) so I know it’s possible at least to succeed without being a complete asshole all the time.


During my career, the really successful that made it to top echelon were all A$$holes and Narcissistic. As the old song “you probably think this song is about you”.

Which of the wildly successful in any venue are NOT? Warren Buffett comes to mind, at least his public persona.

As other poster mentioned, humans reward narcissists. Julius Caesar, Napoleon, Putin, Mao, etc


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## gr8ful1

Rus47 said:


> During my career, the really successful that made it to top echelon were all A$$holes and Narcissistic.


While there are exceptions I’d agree that’s probably the rule…


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## Casual Observer

ArthurGPym said:


> Purple's husband knew she put herself number one over all others when he married her, so he shouldn't expect the zebra stripes to suddenly shift direction.


Where do you find evidence to support this position? We haven’t heard from her husband, and she may have withheld her true colors from him during the vetting process.

It is likely true a Zebra can’t change its stripes. But it’s also true that many Zebras may take advantage of someone who they convincingly tell a story that they’re not really a zebra, they’re something else. Those who fall for such stories are likely more trusting than others and hit harder than most when it’s discovered they did in fact marry a zebra.


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## nukka

Next update if PR returns will be "I can't do all of these rules". Moved back with AP


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## Imnobodynew

Purple roses. Are you doing ok? Still tryin?


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## Diana7

Rus47 said:


> During my career, the really successful that made it to top echelon were all A$$holes and Narcissistic. As the old song “you probably think this song is about you”.
> 
> Which of the wildly successful in any venue are NOT? Warren Buffett comes to mind, at least his public persona.
> 
> As other poster mentioned, humans reward narcissists. Julius Caesar, Napoleon, Putin, Mao, etc


I know that I would never be successful in a wordly way because I am not ruthless.


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## ElOtro

"Very few people are emotionally evolved enough to separate sex from love"

I´m not sure if the ones saying this know what love is. They may have their own imaginative image of it.
What I dare to say that, IMO they neither know too much how much sex may rise and shine between two in love.

In a second look at the same assertion, I also got surprised by the direction of said "emotional evolution" as described. 
Based in my personal experience, I would find the opposite to be a desirable path.


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## SunCMars

EleGirl said:


> Hey you all, apparently the there are some significant thread jacks on this thread leading to PurpleRoses and her issues not getting the support needed. Stop the thread jacks. If you post on this thread, post directly to @PurpleRoses
> 
> PurpleRoses or any other use can report any further thread jacks and a moderator will clean it up.


Good luck with the cleaning job.

Some posters have diarrhea......of the mouth.


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## jonty30

Diana7 said:


> I know that I would never be successful in a wordly way because I am not ruthless.


You're more of a collaborator.


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## Diana7

jonty30 said:


> You're more of a collaborator.


Not sure I am. I could just never hurt or take advantage of people.


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## jonty30

Diana7 said:


> Not sure I am. I could just never hurt or take advantage of people.


I mean you like to work for the common good of all. You collaborate.


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## bigfrog.sg

PurpleRoses said:


> I never said I think it's ok. I'm not proud of what I've done. There is nothing that justifies it. I can't sleep and I have really bad anxiety. I would be horrified if it were reversed.


Hi, I am wondering what compelled you to seek someone else? In my case it’s pretty much no sex for about 13 years. And he’s just traumatized. I lied and flew out of state to meet the sweetest man I have ever met. Spent 5 days with him. Husband found out and immediately went and filled for divorce. After 41 years. Only you know your reasons. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rus47

bigfrog.sg said:


> Hi, I am wondering what compelled you to seek someone else? In my case it’s pretty much no sex for about 13 years. And he’s just traumatized. I lied and flew out of state to meet the sweetest man I have ever met. Spent 5 days with him. Husband found out and immediately went and filled for divorce. After 41 years. Only you know your reasons.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So will you be marrying the sweetest man?


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## Dictum Veritas

bigfrog.sg said:


> Hi, I am wondering what compelled you to seek someone else? In my case it’s pretty much no sex for about 13 years. And he’s just traumatized. I lied and flew out of state to meet the sweetest man I have ever met. Spent 5 days with him. Husband found out and immediately went and filled for divorce. After 41 years. Only you know your reasons.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Were those 5 days with "the sweetest man" [a man with no problem wrecking a family for sex] worth it? I wish your ex or STBX husband healing and a better wife and a fulfilling future.


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## BigDaddyNY

bigfrog.sg said:


> Hi, I am wondering what compelled you to seek someone else? In my case it’s pretty much no sex for about 13 years. And he’s just traumatized. I lied and flew out of state to meet the sweetest man I have ever met. Spent 5 days with him. Husband found out and immediately went and filled for divorce. After 41 years. Only you know your reasons.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why didn't you do the right thing and divorce him when you were having your needs met in the marriage? Why go the immoral route of lies and cheating?


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## MattMatt

*MODERATOR NOTE:- *Please stop with the threadjacks!


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## marko polo

Perhaps no news is good news.


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## bigfrog.sg

BigDaddyNY said:


> Why didn't you do the right thing and divorce him when you were having your needs met in the marriage? Why go the immoral route of lies and cheating?


Wow, you are extremely judgmental. I do not appreciate your judgment. Who do you think you are, God? The morality police? This is supposed to be a safe place for sexless marriage victims to freely express our experience and again, I do not appreciate your judgment or tone. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BigDaddyNY

bigfrog.sg said:


> You really are a sanctimonious son of a B
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you can't take someone admonishing your reprehensible cheating behavior on an anonymous internet site I can only imagine how much of a treat you are in real life. What did you expect to happen when you come here admitting to being a cheater.


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## MattMatt

bigfrog.sg said:


> Wow, you are extremely judgmental. I do not appreciate your judgment. Who do you think you are, God? The morality police? This is supposed to be a safe place for sexless marriage victims to freely express our experience and again, I do not appreciate your judgment or tone.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*MODERATOR:-* Here are what the posting rules state:- 1. Treat others on the forum with dignity and respect. Personal attacks, name calling, hate speech, racist or sexist statements or attacks, sexual harassment, explicit sexual comments, promoting violence, will not be tolerated. The term “Personal” here extends to other TAM posters, their spouse, family members, and others might come up in discussion in their posts.
The remaining rules are to be found here:- Posting Guidelines - Forum Rules (2020)

However, it is not, specifically, supposed to be "a safe place for sexless marriage victims to freely express their experiences."

Talk About Marriage is a website described thusly "Talk About Marriage is a forum to discuss marriage and relationships. Here, we interpret the word "marriage" loosely, recognizing that many different people from different cultures view marriage differently. Please observe our posting guidelines."

Many people on TAM came here because they discovered they had been cheated on. Or they came for help in putting right the trauma they had caused by their own cheating. Someone who blatantly declares themselves to be a cheater and apparently revels in that cannot be surprised if tis kind of tone might cause a shocked, angry or upset reaction. 

Whilst the moderators will allow new members some level of leeway, it's advised that luck pushing is only taken so far.

We are monitoring you.


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