# Throwing in the towel?



## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

So my question is pretty simple. You have 5 good years with your spouse, then one bad year and boom, people get a divorce. If you were to objectively look at a lifetime marriage, say 50 years, how many bad years should you expect? You can't possibly expect every year to be wonderful right? What is the number you should expect in terms of good years to bad years? 1 in 5? 1 in 10? 

Ive been married almost 11 years and two years of it were just about an absolute nightmare. But as we stand today, our communication is so much better. Our understanding of each others needs and boundaries is so much better. Finally our love for each other is deeper and more profound. With that said our worst year to date was 2015. 2017 isn't our best year, but we are trending upwards and have been after 2015. I would say 2016 was a good year and 2017 even better and 2018 on this path might be right up there with the best years ever. 

So the question is, infidelity aside (which has taken a swift upturn with social media I feel) what causes so many people to just throw away a good thing so carelessly and easily it seems? Ive seen couples who were rock steady in their relationships throw it all away due to one bad year so often. What is the mindset that drives this falling apart?

Realistically, if you were told you would be married 50 years and would have 10 crap years, 10 mediocre years, and 30 wonderful years, wouldn't you take up that offer? 

What is the main reason today behind so many people's short sightedness in this regard? Obviously I'm not talking about those who simply aren't compatable (their own fault for ignoring red flags or rushing into things) or those who have had infidelity issues. But even with infidelity, there are a crap ton of people who get past it and live happy lives with their spouses. 

So what is to blame. I'm so quick to blame social media for everything because I think it does way more harm than good to people who use it. Weather it be they used it to cheat, or used it to compare their own lives to the fantasy of all things wonderful everyone portrays their lives to be on SM. So people get this false sense of "everyone else is doing all these great things but me" attitude. Or "her/his husband/wife does all these nice things but mine doesn't do anything" feeling. 

Fact is nobody is going to post how their wife was being a ***** the night before and that is why they did something nice. Or that their husband was being an ******* and that is why he did something nice. No, it is always sunshine and rainbows. So people compare their own relationships to others fantasy relationships they aren't really living but are hell bent on portraying their lives to be to boost their own egos within their circle of friends. 

But I'm getting off topic a bit... What would make you walk away? 10 years bad out of 50? 20 years bad out of 50? What is your number and why? 

People find these types of forums when they are on a down year. So this is trying to give a little perspective to those looking to throw in the towel on their 5th year of marriage even though 1-4 were great. 

Today's relationship forums have a large set of individuals who cry out "divorce and move on!" After small sign of difficulty. Is there really that many people out there who have absolutely no ability to cope with hardships? Is there really that many people who are so weak in nature that they can't fathom working their way through differences and conflict so they just throw in the towel and walk away? What contributed to so many having this throw away mentality? 

Discuss!


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

Did you cheat on your wife?


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Jus260 said:


> Did you cheat on your wife?


No infidelity in our marriage that I know of.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

It is the that wind that courses through our marital lives.

The Prevailing Wind....

If it mostly comes from the South, from the Tropics all is good.

If it mostly comes from the East it is a stiff breeze, not quite friendly, oft just stuffy.

If it mostly comes from the West it could be just fine, just peaceful and satisfying. But if those breezes pass over the far Western Coast in its journey East, it is tainted, gaudily clad, it shakes the foundation of a good marriage.

If it mostly comes from the North it chills the bones of men and the breasts of women. Chills, making hugging and snuggling a waste of precious body heat.
....................................................................................................

It is the trend line...

Are the good years over?
Are the remaining years shrouded in The Fog of Denial.

Is the line on the flat, as in Status Quo? Good enough to stay married, not good enough to bail. 
Bail water. Just fast enough to keep the sloop on keel.

If it trends upward, like a virulent man parading his pride in front of an appreciative wife, then this is good?
.....................................................................................................

Final answer:

Trend line must be either flat or trending up. Actual data point good years are averaged, not really decisive.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Here's the thing: It only takes ONE of the pair to divorce. Few people just up and call it quits. In this age of entitlement and individuality, people are totally eager to blame their unhappiness on their spouse. Few know how to be happy by themselves.

I'm happy as a lark going fishing and hunting and working on old boats and cars, etc.---I don't need a woman for that.
But if I date someone, suddenly my exisistence should be solely devoted to making them happy...., Bringing her flowers, going to see her, taking her on romantic dates, seeing to her honey-do list....
If I go do something I enjoy, I'm. Abandoning her. She's not happy. How many men AND women are like that, who have zero hobbies they enjoy and rely on their SO for entertainment? 
The guy or lady who has things they do that they enjoy---/ well they just are selfish and ignore me and never do this or that.... never any introspection.

Always someone else's fault if they're bored or their "needs" aren't being met. So they divorce---/ normally cheat and move on.

Serial dating has become serial marriages.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

If one of the partners did something really really bad to the other in that bad year, bringing to light a horrible character flaw of the person that makes it impossible to stay married to them, then I can see divorcing due to that bad year.


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## INTJwife_11 (Oct 9, 2017)

I agree with Livvie. If the partner did something really wrong that would make it impossible to stay married, or if the partner turned out to be a completely different person, then staying married is tough. 

It's a coincidence though because I was just thinking about this exact topic as I was driving home today. I have a friend who's going through a very tough time with his wife. They just got married a few months ago! Another friend of mine said he should just leave his wife. That friend happens to be single. I tried to explain that you don't just leave or quit when you stood in front of the altar making the biggest commitment in your life. Also shows why I'm personally not a fan of sharing marital issues or glitches with my friends. They'll always have "advice".

Overall, I wouldn't be able to put a number of years on it. It's more of an emotional thing and how much you can handle. DH and I had some tough times but when I look back it's often caused by external things that cause stress and then escalate, not by the actual person or relationship.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

As we say in time series analysis, the trend is your friend...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Cheating and serious abuse are what would lead me to end a marriage. Its sad that people will end a marriage for relatively minor things. I think its because we have all got selfish, we don't value marriage or commitment, and we don't take the promises we made seriously. We are in a throwaway society, we don't take our responsibilities to our spouse or children seriously enough. We are not prepared to put hard work into anything and we think the grass is always greener.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

I have never met anyone IRL that ended a marriage over flippant things or without trying. All those I know that have been divorced were married for at least a couple of decades with the exception being my parents that were married for 11 years but knowing them it is clear they should never have married in the first place.

TBH I don't believe most of the stories online where they got married/divorced so soon after marriage. One of the common themes in these stories is that they mail order brides, poor English and other commonalities. 

The stats here (Aus) is that people are marrying later in life, living together first for longer and the marriage/divorce rate is going down. 

So personally I don't buy into the hype and online gossip that people today are less committed.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Mrs Holland. Annulments do happen quite often. Research shows the average marriage is 8 years. My older sister is only 36 and has divorced twice. My younger sister and her husband split within a year. I have no idea if her divorce is finalized or not. I personally know quite a few people who have been divorced in under 5 years where they both seemed fine and the marriage seemed fine. They hit a rough patch and threw in the towel. 

My thinking is one bad year in five is a pretty good marriage if the same trend continues throughout their lifetimes. That would be only 10 suck years in a 50 year marriage. If you could guarantee that would be the case going in, wouldn't that sound like a pretty good deal? 

Obviously there are some deal breaker boundaries that get crossed and there is no coming back from that. However I would guess that a larger number of people simply don't want to do the hard work it takes to stay happily married for the long haul. Make the sacrifices, understand you two will have some very hard years on your lifetime journey together. These hard years are inevitable. I can't understand why it seems so many just give up so easily. 

There are obviously multiple factors for this. Some good replies and theories so far.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Mrs Holland. Annulments do happen quite often. Research shows the average marriage is 8 years. My older sister is only 36 and has divorced twice. My younger sister and her husband split within a year. I have no idea if her divorce is finalized or not. I personally know quite a few people who have been divorced in under 5 years where they both seemed fine and the marriage seemed fine. They hit a rough patch and threw in the towel.
> 
> *My thinking is one bad year in five is a pretty good marriage if the same trend continues throughout their lifetimes. That would be only 10 suck years in a 50 year marriage. If you could guarantee that would be the case going in, wouldn't that sound like a pretty good deal? *
> 
> ...


If you want to look at it as a ratio then on paper my first marriage would have looked like this... 4 bad years out of 22 together, so maybe not so bad. But the reality is that there was a gradual decline which was not so evident as we were in the midst of kids, living OS and were great friends and parents. But when the decline became so bad that it impacted my physical and mental health (sex drive mismatch) then it became apparent that the good old days were never coming back, the honeymoon was over. At this point in time I did the best thing possible which was to end the marriage.

Ironically my second husband and I have more challenges (except sexual mismatch, completely compatible there) but are a much more solid union than the first. If counted in time increments MrH V2 and I have had more conflict but it is a far better marriage.

So from a personal POV I don't think we can look at others marriages and judge, maybe their 5 years was full of conflict, maybe no conflict but a total mismatch. As a society we set ourselves up for failure thinking marriage should be till death do us part unless it is a truly compatible and happy marriage. IMHO marriage should be a renewable contract. 

I do not judge others for the length of their marriage or think that a lengthier marriage is necessarily a better one.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

You form all of your opinions based on judgement and personal experiences. I think it is perfectly acceptable judge so long as you include yourself in that judgement. 

I've seen a few discussions on renewable contracts. An interesting idea. It is probably past time to look into and rework marriage and divorce laws. 

I'm not a religious person so the "till death do us part" thing I don't feel should apply to everyone. There is no denying divorce has been on the rise and it seems people are much quicker to divorce today than ever before. 

For me personally, staying married until death is a goal I desperately want. Maybe because I would be the only one in my family to achieve this. Its also about as lofty a goal as you can set for yourself imo. Even the best of marriages are extremely hard work. I personally think a 50+ year great marriage is the best thing you can achieve in life.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> You form all of your opinions based on judgement and personal experiences. I think it is perfectly acceptable judge so long as you include yourself in that judgement.
> 
> I've seen a few discussions on renewable contracts. An interesting idea. It is probably past time to look into and rework marriage and divorce laws.
> 
> ...


*My parents were married for 54 years which I always thought of as a world land speed record!

The only talk that I can ever recall about the remote possibility of divorce between them was for dad's borderline alcoholism and his verbal and rarer physical abuse!

When the company doc told him that his drinking was going to kill him, he gave it up cold turkey and things between them improved drastically!

FWIW, biblical reasons for divorce include adultery, abandonment, as well as mental or physical abuse of a spouse or child!*


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I guess my first question would be how good were the "good" years? How do you, as an outsider, know they were actually good? It's easy to say that someone hit a rough patch and had one bad year after four years of good marriage. But what was that good really like from the inside? And was it good for both partners, or just for the one who was posting on Facebook or chatting with you? Or were they both just being private about the unhappiness for a long time so that no one knew?

My marriage was basically never great. But there were also never whole years that were totally bad or whole years that were totally good. There were days that were good, and days that were not. There were weeks and months that were just okay, and days that were seriously _not_ okay. If those not okay days had stretched into months or a year, we'd have divorced sooner. But on the whole, our marriage was fine. I was fine. We were fine. Right? Well, except for the low-level emotional abuse, verbal abuse, manipulation, gas lighting, and general disrespect and uncaring. But it wasn't majorly bad. It was just sort of not great most of the time. But marriage is hard, right? You have to push through the bad times. It takes work. Keep trying, keep working, harder. Things will get better. But they never did get better. They just got more the same, and then gradually worse over time until there was a huge mountain of bad and very little good on average. 

And yet, most people who knew us thought our marriage was one of the great ones. "How do you guys do it?" "I want to have the kind of marriage you two have!" But it was all a huge sham. When I filed for divorce, I had many people urge me to relent, since we'd had 'such a great marriage' for so long. Why would I want to throw it all away so suddenly? Only it wasn't sudden. And it wasn't a great marriage. And our entire lives together had been a giant lie - the sad product of my blind commitment and his deceit. 

So, how many of those marriages that someone gave up on were good, except for that one year, and how many were "okay", "fine", "not bad" for years? Just because they just never talked about the problems in the marriage with outsiders, or more specifically with you, doesn't mean the marriage was actually good.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Rowan said:


> So, how many of those marriages that someone gave up on were good, except for that one year, and how many were "okay", "fine", "not bad" for years? Just because they just never talked about the problems in the marriage with outsiders, or more specifically with you, doesn't mean the marriage was actually good.


:iagree:

Talk about hitting the nail on the head. The whole post was very eloquently stated.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I just hit the 30 year mark. (they turned off the sun for our anniversary) I'm a bit surprised we made it that far. Just so you know roughly where I am coming from. We started out with matched drive. Over the years we began to drift to different drive levels, I'm still interested about every 36 hours, she is still interested about every 7 days. We've been through job changes, moves, children, empty nest, bounce back kids. Never been Richer, been a bit poorer. Had fair Health, but the future seems to hold a lot of sickness.

So you ask, would I throw in the towel over a bad year? Wow that just stuns me. A whole year of badness. An argument or disagreement that lasts 365 freaking days? An intolerable mismatch of interests, goals, drives, or schedules that lasts month after month for 12 of those terrible months? A year is a long time to be unhappy. I'm pretty sure that if I was mostly unhappy for that length of time, I would be all for initiating some kind of Change to make me more happy. Now that change could be termination of the marriage contract, But, up until now, smaller changes have worked. Some may not have worked very well some turned out to be bad ideas, but over all I haven't had an entire year that stayed bad. Because, We Did something about it.

So yes I would not put up with a bad year. 
And, No, I wouldn't end the marriage over something trivial enough to be fixable.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> So my question is pretty simple. You have 5 good years with your spouse, then one bad year and boom, people get a divorce. If you were to objectively look at a lifetime marriage, say 50 years, how many bad years should you expect? You can't possibly expect every year to be wonderful right? What is the number you should expect in terms of good years to bad years? 1 in 5? 1 in 10?
> .......
> 
> But I'm getting off topic a bit... What would make you walk away? 10 years bad out of 50? 20 years bad out of 50? What is your number and why?


I think I would walk away if I was told that 20% of my married life was going to suck, 20% was going to be mediocre and only 60% was going to be great. I mean that's like saying 2.4 months out of every year, or 6 days out of the month, or 1.4 days out of the week are awful. That's way too stressful for me.

My threshold lies somewhere in the 1:8 range for bad with the rest being a mix of good and mediocre days. Keep the bad times at a minimum. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

I really don't think anyone flippantly tosses away an otherwise good marriage. I do think that some pretend to have good marriages until it gets to the point of being intolerable. To the outside world that might look like tossing away a good marriage. 

I also think (and the OP and others touched on it) that the idea of marriage for a life time is somewhat skewed. A 100 years ago a lifetime was a lot shorter than it is today. And I am not just talking about longevity but also quality of life.

Plus, our worlds were a lot more compact then than they are now. So opportunity and temptation were more restricted then than now. 

Finally I think the whole institution of marriage may be something that time is passing over. Society no longer needs marriage for the continued survival of species and therefore the societal supports for marriage are weaker than in the past, which may contribute to fewer getting married and longer term marriages ending - because that outside pressure to get together or remain together simply is not as great as it once was.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

but, but, but, . . . . . 6 days of every month are pretty awful.
And the Dr. is telling her how lucky she is at 50, and that she may never go through menopause .


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> *You form all of your opinions based on judgement and personal experiences. I think it is perfectly acceptable judge so long as you include yourself in that judgement.
> *
> I've seen a few discussions on renewable contracts. An interesting idea. It is probably past time to look into and rework marriage and divorce laws.
> 
> ...


Actually I said the complete opposite. I make no judgements on others marriage based on the longevity of them. No one knows what goes on in anothers home or marriage.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Mr. Nail said:


> but, but, but, . . . . . 6 days of every month are pretty awful.
> And the Dr. is telling her how lucky she is at 50, and that she may never go through menopause .


What does being 50 and menopause have to do with not wanting to accept 20% crap marriage?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I believe that I was pointing out that we all have periods of unpleasantness in our lives. Some easily reach the 20% line. But because they end as quickly as they start, we can overcome them. We even can learn to accept them repeatedly. (you know football season comes back every year). But if that 20% happens every day, day after day, for long periods of time. When there is not enough relief to heal. When basketball season starts before Football finishes. When you have a "Bad Year". When 2 out of every ten days include sports viewing. Then that 20% is more than you can bear. 

Now I don't know what your bad days are made up of, I'm just throwing out some ideas for comparison. I think that there is a length of time for every person. A season that they can weather. I also think that every person has a level of recovery time, or joy filled time that they have to have to stay in the relationship. 

I'm not sure about percentages or trends. I am pretty sure that my limit is somewhere between 6 and 8 months. I'm also pretty sure that the previous 30 years don't count.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Two people deserve to be happy in a marriage. We were miserable. She was willing to stay, because she felt I was the best that she could get. Thanks, but no thanks. It was very hard for me to do. Prior the filing, I tried everything. I am not perfect, however, I can say two people staying together who are miserable is not okay. Misery may love company, but I don't. Communication and willingness to work together is key in any partnership. My ex-wife couldn't care less. I've never understood why someone would go through all the rigamaroo in getting married and just let it die a year and a half into it. When your spouse refuses to talk to you, work on your marriage, tells you she doesn't know if she loves you, says you'll find another woman in no time and you'll be fine.. What's the point in fighting for the marriage? After all, the only one who seems to want to keep it together was me. I know I couldn't make her happy, thus I let her go. 

It's too painful to go through it again. While, I would honestly love to be married to a woman who's committed to me, and I am committed to her, I just cannot walk down that path again. I never want to go through that again. Rather have a heart attack. 

Divorce changes you. It's a horrible experience.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Lila said:


> I think I would walk away if I was told that 20% of my married life was going to suck, 20% was going to be mediocre and only 60% was going to be great. I mean that's like saying 2.4 months out of every year, or 6 days out of the month, or 1.4 days out of the week are awful. That's way too stressful for me.
> 
> My threshold lies somewhere in the 1:8 range for bad with the rest being a mix of good and mediocre days. Keep the bad times at a minimum.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk



20% of life sucks, 30% is mediocre, not sure how life is any different.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

sokillme said:


> 20% of life sucks, 30% is mediocre, not sure how life is any different.


That's not my experience but I am sorry if it is yours. But your comment could explain why some have higher thresholds for bad marriages where others don't. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Lila said:


> That's not my experience but I am sorry if it is yours. But your comment could explain why some have higher thresholds for bad marriages where others don't.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Maybe I just have a higher threshold for what I call great.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

Mr. Nail said:


> I believe that I was pointing out that we all have periods of unpleasantness in our lives. Some easily reach the 20% line. But because they end as quickly as they start, we can overcome them. We even can learn to accept them repeatedly. (you know football season comes back every year). But if that 20% happens every day, day after day, for long periods of time. When there is not enough relief to heal. When basketball season starts before Football finishes. When you have a "Bad Year". When 2 out of every ten days include sports viewing. Then that 20% is more than you can bear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This is a great discussion, thanks OP and all contributors thus far!

I do believe in marriage as a religious institution and covenant, till death do us part. That being said, my starter marriage lasted 7 years and 3 kids. Pregnant at 18, married at 19. My past already included multiple sexual traumas during childhood including abduction and violent sexual abuse (~2 weeks or so in length) paired with the prevailing sentiment of male family members that I was at fault for the abuse I experienced. Depression and weight gain (“If I don’t look like this maybe I won’t keep getting hurt”) and the presence of a close friend that I deemed “safe” led to an unplanned pregnancy and poorly thought out decision that marriage was the best choice for the situation I found myself in. My exH turned out to be incapable of being faithful, a pathological liar, abusive both emotionally and verbally and I’m certain would have turned physical. Isolated from family and friends both socially and geographically, multiple suicide attempts and a short stay in a mental health facility before I finally became strong enough to save myself, my children and my sanity by ending the marriage.

I filed for divorce after literally years of doing anything I could think of or learn to heal the relationship. I was raised in a very religious family but even my father, when told what and why, stated: “The Bible says a husband that does not care and support for his family is worse than a heathen and that’s before factoring in his infidelity — I don’t consider this to be a divorce because you never really had a true marriage to begin with.” 

Seven years later (2011) I met my current H. Completely unlike my exH in all the best ways even factoring in the sexual mismatch (I am HD, he is LD). Although my H is everything my ex was not, there are lines I refuse to cross again after the painful disaster of my first marriage. I am less tolerant in certain areas and my deal breakers are very well-defined, and the same goes for my H after his painful disaster of a first marriage. 

We are both religious and view marriage as more of a religious covenant, however. We had a wedding with close friends and family as witnesses and our children as our bridal party (I have 3 and he has 2, none together). And although we did have a ceremony in 2014, we did not file legal paperwork until 2016 and only then because of health insurance needs. We both feel strongly that government has no place in a marriage and is currently used more for financial revenge when one spouse wants out. 

As a result of my experience and those of people I know, I feel strongly that past relationships have a major impact on what one will and will not accept in their current one. How many of the marriages that end within 10 years or less are made up of people who have already been through marital trauma and disaster? What I accepted and forgave in the interest of saving my first marriage (grandparents married for 64 years and saw them as a role model and their marriage as something to aspire to) can be wildly different from what I will tolerate and forgive in my current one. 

Just something to keep in mind when looking at these issues — the baggage you carry from a previous marriage can severely limit the baggage you will/are willing to accept in a future one.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Well I can say we've had two rough years, and my marriage is great. 2 out of 11 so far. 2010 was a bad year. 2015 was a bad year. But we've grown stronger and more in love because of the down years. One bad year was on me, one bad year on her. 

Its not like every day of the year was torture. We had good days, but overall those years were our low points to date. 

I can say if either of us had thrown in the towel, neither of us would be as happy as we are today and the arrow is still pointing up. 

I don't want to sound insensitive to those divorced. I think some with the D word forever attached to their name are taking this as a personal attack on them. If we had 9 great years and the last two were bad and the arrow was still pointing down, I would walk away. Or if it was a steady decline and the arrow was always pointing down, that is understandable to me. 

It's those who've had literally one rough year out of an otherwise five year wonderful marriage, yeah I am questioning your fortitude a bit I guess. How do you know you wouldn't have turned it around? I just think some people divorce (read give up) a little too easily sometimes. Your life, your choice. 

I just think people take a lifelong commitment a little to lightly. Weather entering in to one, or pulling out of one. It took me 7 years and enough ups and downs through my younger years to realize we had what it takes. Maybe its more of a thing where people get married while still in limerence and when that wears off all the red flags they had been ignoring due to their infatuation are suddenly glaring in their faces. Can't say I feel sorry for your for taking a lifelong commitment so lightly.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

Almost-Done said:


> Two people deserve to be happy in a marriage. We were miserable. She was willing to stay, because she felt I was the best that she could get. Thanks, but no thanks. It was very hard for me to do. Prior the filing, I tried everything. I am not perfect, however, I can say two people staying together who are miserable is not okay. Misery may love company, but I don't. Communication and willingness to work together is key in any partnership. My ex-wife couldn't care less. I've never understood why someone would go through all the rigamaroo in getting married and just let it die a year and a half into it. When your spouse refuses to talk to you, work on your marriage, tells you she doesn't know if she loves you, says you'll find another woman in no time and you'll be fine.. What's the point in fighting for the marriage? After all, the only one who seems to want to keep it together was me. I know I couldn't make her happy, thus I let her go.
> 
> It's too painful to go through it again. While, I would honestly love to be married to a woman who's committed to me, and I am committed to her, I just cannot walk down that path again. I never want to go through that again. Rather have a heart attack.
> 
> Divorce changes you. It's a horrible experience.



I understand your pain and your perspective, healing after this kind of trauma can take years, even decades. My H felt exactly the way you do after his divorce from his exW in 2006. When we began our relationship in 2011, he was very upfront about his feelings on marriage and his aversion to it. Fortunately, our relationship allowed both of us to see that when partners are committed to each other and continually willing to really put in the hard work and tears and frustration that come along with the laughter, joy, love and contentment then a LTR/marriage can not only survive but can flourish. Because of how different our relationship is compared to all of his past experiences, he willingly and happily stood with me and committed to a lifelong partnership regardless of the difficulties that we have and will continue to face. 

You are raw and wounded right now, justifiably so. Just try to not give up all hope of finding a mate who values their relationship with you far more than the pain or hard work of such a commitment.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> So my question is pretty simple. You have 5 good years with your spouse, then one bad year and boom, people get a divorce. If you were to objectively look at a lifetime marriage, say 50 years, how many bad years should you expect?


I expect no bad years.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> You can't possibly expect every year to be wonderful right?


 In my experience of marriage, it is perfectly reasonable to expect every year to be wonderful.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> What is the number you should expect in terms of good years to bad years? 1 in 5? 1 in 10?


None.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> Ive been married almost 11 years and two years of it were just about an absolute nightmare. But as we stand today, our communication is so much better. Our understanding of each others needs and boundaries is so much better. Finally our love for each other is deeper and more profound. With that said our worst year to date was 2015. 2017 isn't our best year, but we are trending upwards and have been after 2015. I would say 2016 was a good year and 2017 even better and 2018 on this path might be right up there with the best years ever.


I've been married twice.

My first marriage lasted just under a year before separation pending divorce. Mostly as a consequence of only getting married because she got pregnant, the marriage wasn't great. Although we were highly compatible sexually, we weren't in other ways. Plus her developing a mental illness (which was common in her family) didn't help either. Her infidelity while I was away for work, was just the final nail in the coffin rather than the first.

My second marriage is starkly different from my first and has thus far lasted almost 18½ terrific years with my partner, who I have happily been with for 21+ years.

From my experience I have come to believe that bad marriages require hard work to sustain, while great marriages require little to no work at all.

Having experienced a bad marriage and a great one, I see no value in ever settling for one that is bad.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> So the question is, infidelity aside (which has taken a swift upturn with social media I feel) what causes so many people to just throw away a good thing so carelessly and easily it seems?


I doubt there are many people who divorce for frivolous reasons at all.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> Ive seen couples who were rock steady in their relationships throw it all away due to one bad year so often. What is the mindset that drives this falling apart?


Good for them, as to mindset perhaps many of them are not inclined to accept that which is broken.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> Realistically, if you were told you would be married 50 years and would have 10 crap years, 10 mediocre years, and 30 wonderful years, wouldn't you take up that offer?


Since I am not codependant or a masochist, I wouldn't take that offer.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> What is the main reason today behind so many people's short sightedness in this regard?


What short sightedness? Perhaps you should try thinking beyond where you are.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> Obviously I'm not talking about those who simply aren't compatable (their own fault for ignoring red flags or rushing into things) or those who have had infidelity issues. But even with infidelity, there are a crap ton of people who get past it and live happy lives with their spouses.


There is no one size fits all.

Some people like playing victim while some don't, just as some people like drama and some don't, and on and on etc.

Unless they're doing it personally to you, it shouldn't matter to you what other people do with their own marital relationships.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> So what is to blame. I'm so quick to blame social media for everything because I think it does way more harm than good to people who use it. Weather it be they used it to cheat, or used it to compare their own lives to the fantasy of all things wonderful everyone portrays their lives to be on SM. So people get this false sense of "everyone else is doing all these great things but me" attitude. Or "her/his husband/wife does all these nice things but mine doesn't do anything" feeling.


Social media is just a tool, benefit and harm are inherent in the users.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> Fact is nobody is going to post how their wife was being a ***** the night before and that is why they did something nice. Or that their husband was being an ******* and that is why he did something nice.


Not quite! To the bemusement of my wife and I, we know a few relatives and friends. Who frequently post their dirty laundry and drama with reckless abandon on social media.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> No, it is always sunshine and rainbows. So people compare their own relationships to others fantasy relationships they aren't really living but are hell bent on portraying their lives to be to boost their own egos within their circle of friends.


As above no it isn't. There are also many others like my wife and I who are on Facebook, yet don't post much of anything at all on there.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> But I'm getting off topic a bit... What would make you walk away? 10 years bad out of 50? 20 years bad out of 50? What is your number and why?


One year or less out of any number of years.

I am simply not inclined to fritter away my short life, trying to maintain any subpar marital relationship.

As to what, the list is long. Things like if I no longer liked my wife, or I no longer loved her, or we always fought or argued. Or I no longer wanted to share sex with her, or I hated her, or I resented her, or being with her felt like it required tremendous effort and other things besides I would walk.

As to why, albeit short lived having once settled for less and as a consequences having experienced = exactly that. I decided from then on that I will not ever volunteer for less.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> People find these types of forums when they are on a down year. So this is trying to give a little perspective to those looking to throw in the towel on their 5th year of marriage even though 1-4 were great.


Some have and some others haven't.

I was just looking for discussions about sex, since I have always had a rich sex life and am interested in the topic.

Not everyone is here because things have gone wrong.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> Today's relationship forums have a large set of individuals who cry out "divorce and move on!" After small sign of difficulty. Is there really that many people out there who have absolutely no ability to cope with hardships? Is there really that many people who are so weak in nature that they can't fathom working their way through differences and conflict so they just throw in the towel and walk away? What contributed to so many having this throw away mentality?


Many of the people who post of their problems here, have terrible through appalling marital relationship problems. Which in many cases have been left for too long and as a consequence of that are beyond amicable resolution.

It is one thing to face hardship together with a spouse, and it is another to cause each other hardship. 

If it is a hardship to maintain a happy marital relationship, it is starkly evident that those marital partners are maintaining the wrong relationship.

Choosing to end a marital relationship as a consequence of hurting one another, is a healthy and rational approach to a toxic relationship. Sucking up toxic behaviour in a marital relationship isn't healthy nor rational.

Why are so many people so weak in nature, that they are afraid to abandon miserable relationships and move onto better things?



TheDudeLebowski said:


> Discuss!


Perhaps if you knew from your own experience how easy a great relationship is to have, you wouldn't be inclined to settle for any years of an absolute nightmare.

Whenever you settle for less, you will get exactly that.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

What constitutes a "bad year?"


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