# Sexless Marriage...depression... Lost hope



## Spacehog (Nov 5, 2019)

We have been married for ten years now. My wife is fantastic in so many ways she is a wonderful mother to our two small children. I run a business and she is stay at home, our eldest is at school, youngest at nursery. She is kind, funny, we dont argue in destructive ways but....

Our sex life is dead. We have sex maybe four or five times a year. It's as if the entire universe has to align for this to happen. I feel like an old man, but I'm not old. I'm in good shape, and I don't think I'm a bad catch (just being objective!). The lack of intimacy is eating at my soul, I can barely stand it. I feel sad and alone. I do so much for my family, it's no chore, I love them. I have built a business that gives me flexibility. I get up at 6am every day with my son and give him breakfast end get him ready for school. I help with everything around the house. I cook. I do spontaneous things. I come home for kids bedtime every day. I have my own interests and friends. I don't pressure for anything. This lack of intimacy has crept up on me and I have a sick, hollow feeling. There is anger and growing resentment too. It's worse becuase I find her incredibly attractive. Our physical relationship before marriage was incredible. When we do have sex now, she says she can't understand why we dont do it more often, because it's great. 

I feel like I'm sinking in to a void. I feel depressed and on the verge of tears sometimes. It scares me where our marriage will end up, at some point I will break. We have talked about this many times, she agrees that the mindset needs to change, but nothing ever does, until there is another breaking point. How many breaking points do there have to be? Do I have to walk out to make it stick that our marriage needs to be a priority? 

To add insult to injury, we will often have interactions that hint at sex, but then it just dies...

Help.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

You should be saying this to your wife either in person or in a letter. You are the husband in the marriage you need to lead, part of leading is communicating your needs, beside even that you are not being a good spouse if you are not communicating your needs. 

If she is too overwhelmed with work around the house then get her help or help her yourself but it's more then reasonable to want the have physical intimacy with your wife. If you don't have that then you are just good friends. You can have that with anyone. Sex is a big part of marriage. 

You need to frame this about you wanting to be close to her and you needing that for your relationship. Don't let her make it about you getting off. That your sex life is about intimacy with your spouse and that is lacking and will eventually make your marriage vulnerable. Also about being attracted to her and wanting to celebrate that. Let her know you are unhappy and this is very serious. But be reasonable about the reasons why, if she is overwhelmed then work to help her but under the guise that sex must be a priority in your marriage in the same way communication, kids, family, wealth and everything else is. If she feels unattractive seduce her and make her feel attractive. If she needs dates and romance do that but again under the guise of sex being a part of that. Be assertive. 

Most of all take agency in your life. 

One last thing, and I hate to say this and I don't want to make you paranoid but check your phone. See if there are any strange numbers called a lot. You would not be the first.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Sorry to hear this -- have you had a fully open heart-to-heart talk about this? WHY doesn't she have the desire? WHY doesn't SHE have the drive to have sex?

DO NOT accept the typical, I'm tired, I'm too busy, the kids would hear,..... REALLY talk with her, and most importantly REALLY LISTEN to her. Does she have some sort of resentment against you? How about you try this : SCHEDULE when you are going to have sex. With little kids, maybe you say "every Friday night, at 10pm after the kids have been asleep" or something similar -- whatever works time-wise for the both of you. REALLY make sure that you and her can stick to that schedule no matter WHAT. If she still likes sex (sounds like she does), then doing it like this may take a bit of doing to get things going (but that can be FUN).

Also, do you guys date? Take her out (WITHOUT the kids) a few times a month. Plan something nice and different for each, not always dinner at the same place.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

I have been in your exact boat.

Good man, husband, father - very attracted to wife, but getting cut off.

I hate to say it, but you need to be suspicious and do some digging (don't accuse or confront her though).

Does your wife have free time away from home? Gym, volunteer?

If that search comes up clean, than you need to put your foot down more.

You say things were good before marriage, but then it got worse, did it drop off after the wedding or after the kids?

Might have been a bait and switch.

Are you fully initiating and getting rejected or waiting for her to initiate?

By definition, you are in a sexless marriage.

Sorry you are here.

Have you read "Married man sex life primer" yet?


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Another good read.

https://archive.org/details/RobertGloverNoMoreMrNiceGuy


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Spacehog said:


> I feel like I'm sinking in to a void. I feel depressed and on the verge of tears sometimes. It scares me where our marriage will end up, at some point I will break. We have talked about this many times, she agrees that the mindset needs to change, but nothing ever does, until there is another breaking point. How many breaking points do there have to be? Do I have to walk out to make it stick that our marriage needs to be a priority?
> 
> To add insult to injury, we will often have interactions that hint at sex, but then it just dies...
> 
> Help.


You need marriage counseling, now. She can't be happy that you're not happy, right? For the time being let's assume she's motivated to want you happy, and her happy.

Another thing to do (and a favorite thing of mine) is, bring up the boundary talk. What's acceptable, what isn't. If you do this right out of the blue, she might be thinking, why do we need to talk about this? Explain that you want to be sure each of you understand what threats to the relationship married couples face, and that obviously there might be issues where one of the two of you might be thinking the grass is greener elsewhere. That would be unacceptable, right? If it came to that, you would divorce rather than dishonor your vows. 

Don't get caught up in any stories about how she has friends who don't have much sex either. That's them (if they actually exist), but she married you.

But mostly get to counseling, quickly. Raising kids does not mean putting your husband or wife second. Why do you think so many divorces happen when the kids are gone? You don't want to be that couple. Right?


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> You need marriage counseling, now. She can't be happy that you're not happy, right? For the time being let's assume she's motivated to want you happy, and her happy.
> 
> Another thing to do (and a favorite thing of mine) is, bring up the boundary talk. What's acceptable, what isn't. If you do this right out of the blue, she might be thinking, why do we need to talk about this? Explain that you want to be sure each of you understand what threats to the relationship married couples face, and that obviously there might be issues where one of the two of you might be thinking the grass is greener elsewhere. That would be unacceptable, right? If it came to that, you would divorce rather than dishonor your vows.
> 
> ...


Make sure the therapist has a sex therapist slant. 

10 years is the tough spot in the marriage. Young kids, demanding jobs, debt and expenses. It's exhausting. 
For some women, sex is just "one more thing on their very long list of things to do"

I made that mistake during my marriage and damn near lost it

1. tell her you are serious. This is not sex. this is connection and intimacy. Its important for you and the marriage
2. read 5 Love Languages. Maybe she doesn't speak intimacy as her main language, maybe its Words of Affirmation or Acts of Service.
3. schedule dates. we never did this BIG MISTAKE. Don't talk about kids
4. the stars do NOT have to be aligned for you to be intimate. Don't expect her to rip your clothes off, you may have to lead. Many women have responsive desire. Once you start, she may follow. But she has to give it a chance.
5. Read No More Mr Nice Guy and Married Man's Sex Life Primer. You have needs that are not being met, and I"m not just talking about having an orgasm. You want to show your wife how much you love her and this is how you express yourself.

I wish my husband had sat me down and explained it not as sex, but as an important part of his closeness with me.
Some men express their need for emotional connection this way.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

One other thing, and I told my wife this when we decided to have a child, and many times after: WE (wife and I) are the PRIMARY RELATIONSHIP and ALWAYS have to be. Yes, our relationship with kids is very important, and yes you would do anything for them -- anything EXCEPT giving up your relationship with your spouse. Kids grow, and move on with their lives -- YOU will still be with your spouse. You both need to realize that and WORK at making it so.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Well, I wrote a book on the subject, so I wouldn't be a good salesman/vendor without bringing it up:

*The Dead Bedroom Fix*

I wrote it for guys in your exact predicament. It's available from my site or you can get on Amazon. For a while there it was ranked the #1 new release in several categories and has a five-star review. I even have a private group on Facebook for men to chat about the dead bedrooms and experience with the book.

_*"I get up at 6am every day with my son and give him breakfast end get him ready for school. I help with everything around the house. I cook. I do spontaneous things. I come home for kids bedtime every day."*_ --- What you just did is THE most common thing men do that I chat with about their dead bedroom. They bring up what a great dad/husband/father/housekeeper they are. I've had men go on for over an hour about the gifts they buy, the chores, how they just built a new deck onto the back of the house, how they are the homework helper extraordinaire, how they pick up kids from school every day, etc. I will say to you what I say to them: *How on Earth does any of that translate into a guy that a woman wants to ****? 
*
Just food for thought. 

Best of luck to you.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Spacehog said:


> I get up at 6am every day with my son and give him breakfast end get him ready for school.....I come home for kids bedtime every day


That is very disconcerting and could be problematic. You don't feel much like a husband. Could it be possible your wife doesn't feel much like a wife?

I remember when I was around 12 years old, the wife of my much older cousin was divorcing him. I heard my mom on the phone asking her why. She answered that he was never home. He had a construction business and was always working. My mom broke into this truly pathetic voice advising her "Oh honey, don't you know how lucky you are to have a good, hardworking man for a husband?" Even at 12 years old, I thought my mother was crazy.

I think most people are aware by now that the vast majority of divorces are initiated by women. In one of his articles, Dr. Harley of MarriageBuilders.com marveled at what he learned to be the predominant reason that women give for wanting the divorce. He pondered and compared the fact that abused women stay in their relationships and marriages. They don't leave. They don't divorce. Many abused women don't even emotionally check out of the relationship. But the main reason other women give for divorcing is "neglect."

I've noticed that in the hierarchy of needs set forth by Mazlow and others, there is one prevailing thread interwoven throughout most of them. It's never stated. Not even once. With the exception of basic needs like food, safety, security, etc., the explanations of all the others share that one very common but unmentioned element that everyone has a need to be provided. That one element is attention.

If you think about it, that could provide a very good explanation as to why abused women don't leave. If attention is a psychological need, then the psyche itself is unable to distinguish between positive attention and negative attention. That's something our conscious minds are able to determine, but the psyche is the unconscious mind and as long as it is receiving what it needs - attention - then it's satisfied with whatever attention it receives because to it, attention is attention in whatever nature. So, it could explain why abused women aren't always able to decide to leave. They don't feel the deficit that neglect transmits because they are obviously not neglected. They may consciously become saddened that the attention is not in positive form, but the psyche doesn't transmit any deficiency. For example, we clearly receive the signal of hunger when the body and the psyche detect the lack of food and nutrients. Once we eat, we no longer receive that signal. A satiated psyche doesn't transmit any warning signs when amount of attention is sufficient, so there are no effects that resemble starvation.

So what of women who feel neglected? Just like you, they don't feel valued, desired, or appreciated. I don't think I can stress enough the important currency of attention, and I'm sure you get my point since you, yourself, are feeling the devaluing affects of its missing element. The difference between you and your wife is that you need different types of attention. You both need intimacy, but you likely define and translate intimacy very differently. You have the same need but need it conveyed in different ways, by different avenues.

In other words......spend time at home with your wife. Spend time away from home with your wife. Nurturing your relationship is as important as the time and attention you devote to building and maintaining your business. Rising at 6 am, returning at 8 or 9 doesn't cut it even if you live up to your other responsibilities in between. You've both been absorbed by all of life's other necessities and demands, but you have to remember that nurturing your marriage is also a necessity. You need to feel like a husband, so you have to make the effort to make her feel like a wife.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Take a look at asexuality.org and see if that matches. 

There are many reasons for sexless marriages. One of them is that some people have almost no innate interest in sex. Something I wasn't aware of for more than 25 years of a 30 year nearly sexless marriage. 

A sexless marriage is truly miserable. Sometimes your choices are reduced to: cheat, leave, live like a monk. All those choices are bad.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Have you actually said this to your wife?

Are you willing to make things temporarily worse for the possibility (please note that I didn't say guarantee) of getting better?

Are you willing to end your marriage if it does not improve?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

dadstartingover said:


> Well, I wrote a book on the subject, so I wouldn't be a good salesman/vendor without bringing it up:
> 
> *The Dead Bedroom Fix*
> 
> ...


I agree to a certain extent, though if all she does is work all day and picks up for him all day, kind of ends up being the guys Mommy. Which is why helping out is a good strategy, but it has to be to give his wife some down time so she is not exhausted. It can't be a kind of quid pro quo kind of thing. That doesn't work either. Doesn't seem the case here however as he says he pitches in. 

Thing is many women need to feel safe and close emotionally to be open sexually. Which is a good explanation why often times men who are big achievers, good looking, what would be considered good catches end up getting cheated on and the affair partners are less achievers and less attractive. Most of the time when you read these stories the OM have taken the time to get very close to the cheating wives emotionally. Talking, complements, keeping secrets, generally telling them how special they are to them. Something that their husbands have neglected. Now don't get me wrong I am not saying that is an excuse I am highlighting that many times it's the emotional intimacy that brings the physical kind for her. Nothing says a husband can't do the same thing for his wife and he should always be doing that.


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## Spacehog (Nov 5, 2019)

Hi All, thanks for the many responses. Just to clarify a few things.

Yes, we have talked about this numerous times. We agree that we should have set date nights, because you can't go from nothing to full on. However, these date nights don't happen. Dam it, someone has to instigate that. The other week I sent a message to my wife saying let's have dinner together after the kids have gone to bed. She forgot, ate dinner with the kids, and then I was so fed up I didn't bother with anything. Neither did she. 

Sometimes when we go out, we both get dressed up, come home, then go to bed. Nothing.

She knows everything I mentioned in my post. But there is a history in our marriage of raising problems and no changes being made. 

I'm fairly sure there is nobody else. I don't think our marriage is missing love, its just missing intimacy and physicality. Without which the live will wane I am sure. 

I explained to her two weeks ago that we can't carry on like this.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@Spacehog, a couple of questions...

How many children do you have? How old is the youngest? How old is the oldest?

How many hours of Quality Time (no tv, no kids, no distractions, just focused on the two of you) do you have a week?


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Spacehog said:


> Sometimes when we go out, we both get dressed up, come home, then go to bed. Nothing.


Yeah, it doesn't work quite as quickly as that! You go out on a date because you'll enjoy it, both of you, not so that you can have sex later. 



> She knows everything I mentioned in my post. But there is a history in our marriage of raising problems and no changes being made.


As in, YOU raising problems, and no changes being made by HER? Or both ways?



> I explained to her two weeks ago that we can't carry on like this.


If the sex is good when you (rarely) have it, then I don't think you need a sex therapist. A marriage therapist might help.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Spacehog said:


> I explained to her two weeks ago that we can't carry on like this.


What does that mean? What are you willing to do? And if you don’t follow through you will continue to carry on, because nothing changes if nothing changes. 

Good luck.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

It really doesn't sound like you or her romantic relationship with you is a priority at all for her.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

How many kids and what ages? What are both of your responsibilities (both in terms of careerwise and household)? Do you both stay in shape / stay active? Do you both have activities / hobbies that you can do together? How much alone time do you two get together? Is there any use of prescription drugs such as Anti Depressants? Any other health issues?

There are a list of things that could be the cause. It should be of concern that you have brought this up and apparently there is no attempt at an effort on her part, but there could be a lot of reasons for that which aren't just her doing it deliberately. You probably will need to get to the point where an ultimatum is thrown down, but ideally you can get in front of this before it gets to that point.


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## Spacehog (Nov 5, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> It really doesn't sound like you or her romantic relationship with you is a priority at all for her.


 This has kind of been my conclusion. Everything else takes priority.


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## Spacehog (Nov 5, 2019)

EllisRedding said:


> How many kids and what ages? What are both of your responsibilities (both in terms of careerwise and household)? Do you both stay in shape / stay active? Do you both have activities / hobbies that you can do together? How much alone time do you two get together? Is there any use of prescription drugs such as Anti Depressants? Any other health issues?
> 
> There are a list of things that could be the cause. It should be of concern that you have brought this up and apparently there is no attempt at an effort on her part, but there could be a lot of reasons for that which aren't just her doing it deliberately. You probably will need to get to the point where an ultimatum is thrown down, but ideally you can get in front of this before it gets to that point.


Bringing stuff up, having it accepted, and then nothing happen as agteed is a running theme. Not just about physicality. There are no health issues and we are in good shape. I don't buy that it's all about the drain of kids. If you don't carve out time and energy it won't happen. I often take the children off of her hands so she can shop, see friends etc, recharge.

We both have hobbies but I am a bit better at cultivating them than her. 

Once the children are asleep we have every evening together, but the time is poorly spent in my opinion. Rubbish TV etc.

The children are 3 and 7.

Appreciate all the input.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

dadstartingover said:


> Well, I wrote a book on the subject, so I wouldn't be a good salesman/vendor without bringing it up:
> 
> *The Dead Bedroom Fix*
> 
> ...


Like most married men he's trying to negotiate genuine desire.....
You can't!! 
She does not give a second thought about what chores he does around the house or how is thinks he's a good father. 
For a man to think a woman should love him the way he thinks she should, for his actions, is just idealistic blindness that leads to frustration.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Spacehog said:


> Bringing stuff up, having it accepted, and then nothing happen as agteed is a running theme. Not just about physicality. There are no health issues and we are in good shape. I don't buy that it's all about the drain of kids. If you don't carve out time and energy it won't happen. I often take the children off of her hands so she can shop, see friends etc, recharge.
> 
> We both have hobbies but I am a bit better at cultivating them than her.
> 
> ...


This guy has a masters in psychology and has written many books on sexual dynamics and how to fix them.
https://therationalmale.com/


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Spacehog said:


> Sometimes when we go out, we both get dressed up, come home, then go to bed. Nothing.


Can you walk us through what happens when you go out and why nothing happens? I get the sense that you might be waiting for her to initiate or give you certain signals, but she might prefer you to take the lead. When you go out to dinner, have the attitude of "we will have sex tonight" instead of "I hope this leads to sex tonight". It sounds like you guys have good sex when it happens, so make sex happen more often. Be happy that she enjoys sex rather than disappointed that she doesn't initiate. We all can understand wanting to have the excitement you had at the beginning, but don't get disappointed because it's not the same. You can still have a satisfying sex life even if it's different than before.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Spacehog said:


> Bringing stuff up, having it accepted, and then nothing happen as agteed is a running theme. Not just about physicality. There are no health issues and we are in good shape. I don't buy that it's all about the drain of kids. If you don't carve out time and energy it won't happen. I often take the children off of her hands so she can shop, see friends etc, recharge.
> 
> We both have hobbies but I am a bit better at cultivating them than her.
> 
> ...


Obviously it is hard to tell only seeing your side if there are any issues that your W may be dealing with (resentment, etc...). All I can say is that I was in a similar situation as you (I work and wife is a SAHM) where prior to this year I could count on two hands (and have fingers left over) the number of times I had sex in a 2yr+ period (we have 3 children, now 11, 9, 5), even though when we did have sex it was great and she would comment about why we didn't do it more. This year things have swinged completely in the opposite direction where 2-3x a week is more the norm.

If you initiate, does she reject you, or is the issue she just doesn't initiate? The whole initiation thing can be very complicated since this can vary greatly b/w men and women.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Spacehog said:


> This has kind of been my conclusion. Everything else takes priority.


If she wants to save her marriage, she has to choose to make her romantic relationship with you and your needs as her husband a top priority.


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## Spacehog (Nov 5, 2019)

CharlieParker said:


> Spacehog said:
> 
> 
> > I explained to her two weeks ago that we can't carry on like this.
> ...


Good question. And I agree. If I threaten to leave in an attempt to get her to see how serious this is it would feel hollow. Also, I love my kids the pain of being apart from them would be unbearable. I won't cheat. And I can't live celibate. All I've got is trying to find a way through. All alternatives are disastrous.

I'm willing to talk and make whatever efforts I can. Maybe palce a time limit on it. I don't know. Sorry, I'm lost. Guess that's why I'm here...


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## Spacehog (Nov 5, 2019)

EllisRedding said:


> Spacehog said:
> 
> 
> > Bringing stuff up, having it accepted, and then nothing happen as agteed is a running theme. Not just about physicality. There are no health issues and we are in good shape. I don't buy that it's all about the drain of kids. If you don't carve out time and energy it won't happen. I often take the children off of her hands so she can shop, see friends etc, recharge.
> ...


Good Post. Yes, initiation I think is complex, full of subtle things and small triggers. Initiation from my side isn't a blunt instrument, I won't progress unless it's a mutual thing. From her, yes she has initiated in the past. I know she is still very much attracted to me. I just don't think her mind is prioritising our relationship.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I have been there. Seems to me the OP's wife has lost her attraction to her husband, for whatever reason. It happens. I think MC would be the first port of call for this.


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## Spacehog (Nov 5, 2019)

wilson said:


> Spacehog said:
> 
> 
> > Sometimes when we go out, we both get dressed up, come home, then go to bed. Nothing.
> ...


Thanks. Yes, it's always good. That's why I don't understand it. 

When we go out, I don't do it on the pretext that it will happen. When we get home, she will spend too long talking to the sitter, then go and get changed. And that usually kills it. Yes, I do wait for signals. Its because I now feel so out of touch that I'm blocked up.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> If she wants to save her marriage, she has to choose to make her romantic relationship with you and your needs as her husband a top priority.


Yes.
And what can he do to change the current sexual dynamic? 
Change himself....


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Spacehog said:


> Good Post. Yes, initiation I think is complex, full of subtle things and small triggers. Initiation from my side isn't a blunt instrument, I won't progress unless it's a mutual thing. From her, yes she has initiated in the past. *I know she is still very much attracted to me.* I just don't think her mind is prioritising our relationship.


Brother, you I think have no idea whether she is attracted to you in the slightest. In fact, the odds are that she is not attracted to you at all.

Look, what you are doing is "Projecting YOUR FEELINGS" on her which have no basis in reality. 

Listen, I know this is hard, but here is the deal... You have to be willing to divorce her, file papers and hand them to her and tell her, if this issue is not fixed I am divorcing you. 

Which, if you want your life to be better, is probably what you are going to have to do...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BluesPower said:


> Brother, you I think have no idea whether she is attracted to you in the slightest. In fact, the odds are that she is not attracted to you at all.
> 
> Look, what you are doing is "Projecting YOUR FEELINGS" on her which have no basis in reality.
> 
> ...



Agree... I don't think she has understood the seriousness of the problem... wake-up call. If she doesn't respond, then you have your answer... you can then divorce or have MC...


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## Spacehog (Nov 5, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> BluesPower said:
> 
> 
> > Brother, you I think have no idea whether she is attracted to you in the slightest. In fact, the odds are that she is not attracted to you at all.
> ...


I agree that she doesn't understand the magnitude. But I have previously out it in stark terms. This is what makes it infuriating. Regarding attraction, there is plenty that she does to show this (this isn't just my ego talking) . It just never goes anywhere. It's like a dead end. It's hard trying to convey the dynamics in writing.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Spacehog, I think you are going to have to do something that I also struggle with.

Stop reading everything as a sign for why it won't happen, and just go for it. So what if she changed after the date? Do pajamas not come off? It is not like she has sealed herself up in a cocoon until morning.

Not only make your voice heard, but make your presence felt. You cannot get upset about the lack of sex, then do nothing to initiate more sex. It just doesn't work that way.

Perhaps there is a history of rejection ( I didn't see it in the thread), but even if there is, you have to fight through that if you want anything to change. Yes, she should work on her side of it, but it is not like you are a sex dynamo that she is swatting away all day. At least you don't describe that in your post.

Ultimately, there needs to be a lot of communication, and a willingness for both people to change if you want it to get better. You didn't end up this way in a day, and it wont go away in a day either.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I agree with BluesPower. A woman in her thirties or forties will want to have sex with a man more than 4 times a year when she is "very much attracted to him". Yes, really. Also, thinking you are attractive is different than being attracted to you and wanting to have a close sex life with you. There are men I think are attractive, but I'm not attracted to them and wouldn't want to have sex with them regularly.

You need to get to the bottom of why you aren't having sex more often. And I don't mean falling for excuses, sex 4 times a year means it's not just that she's tired, etc etc. Anyone who truly wants to have sex with their husband will find many many more days out of a year to do so, you know that, you do. Also don't fall for hoop jumping. A marriage and intimate sexual relationship is something that **both parties** are responsible for keeping going and strong. If she's not into you sexually anymore and just wants to keep the marriage for the other aspects and benefits of it, and a fulfilling sexual component is important to YOU, you need to know the truth so you can make an informed decision about the relationship.



BluesPower said:


> Spacehog said:
> 
> 
> > Good Post. Yes, initiation I think is complex, full of subtle things and small triggers. Initiation from my side isn't a blunt instrument, I won't progress unless it's a mutual thing. From her, yes she has initiated in the past. *I know she is still very much attracted to me.* I just don't think her mind is prioritising our relationship.
> ...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> If she's not into you sexually anymore and just wants to keep the marriage for the other aspects and benefits of it, and a fulfilling sexual component is important to YOU, you need to know the truth so you can make an informed decision about the relationship.


Totally agree with this...


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Spacehog said:


> Good question. And I agree. If I threaten to leave in an attempt to get her to see how serious this is it would feel hollow. Also, I love my kids the pain of being apart from them would be unbearable. I won't cheat. And I can't live celibate. All I've got is trying to find a way through. All alternatives are disastrous.
> 
> I'm willing to talk and make whatever efforts I can. Maybe palce a time limit on it. I don't know. Sorry, I'm lost. Guess that's why I'm here...


Not quite.

Why are you allowing her to be comfortable in the midst of your discomfort?

At this point, I would advocate that you do less for her. Please note I said less for HER...not your kids...not your household obligations...just her.

She wants someone to listen to her vent? Tell her you are not in the mood.

She asks you to help her with something non-kid or non-household related? Tell her you don't feel like it. 

When she complains about it, tell her the following:

"Wife, you have made it clear that you prioritize my needs in the relationship at the bottom of your list. I now accept and embrace this position."

Also, you should take a couple of nights a week and be out of the house. Go do things you enjoy, such as hobbies, etc. No bars unless it is with guy friends who will not encourage you to make irresponsible choices. 

When she complains about this:

"Wife, because you have no interest in prioritizing me, I will be using the time I would normally invest in you to do things for myself."

This sounds harsh. It may not fix things. It will certainly get worse before it gets better. But this unequivocally worked for me. A sexless marriage is what brought me to TAM 6 years ago.

Lastly, and most importantly: You will be accused of tit-for-tat, that this is 'all about sex', etc. This is her attempt to not have to change. Remember: you are doing this FOR YOU, not TO HER.

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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

One other point. Your wife doesn't **** you because she doesn't want to **** you. 

No amount of household chores or acts of service will lead to her desire for you increasing, rather it prevents a distraction from desire when desire is actually present. 



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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> Not quite.
> 
> Why are you allowing her to be comfortable in the midst of your discomfort?
> 
> At this point, I would advocate that you do less for her. Please note I said less for HER...not your kids...not your household obligations...just her.



^ This

In this is where the cycle begins. He does more for her expecting her to reciprocate how he wants it. She doesn't reciprocate. His frustration / resentment grows. Rinse and repeat.

If she is making no effort or not taking your concerns seriously, you need to back off from her. Spend the time focusing on yourself, your kids, your career, etc...


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> I actually don't agree with this, at least not in stating it as if it is universal as there are so many variables to consider.


There is truth in this. 

What the OP needs to consider is that if this is the extent of her desire, can he live with it?

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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Spacehog said:


> Good question. And I agree. If I threaten to leave in an attempt to get her to see how serious this is it would feel hollow. Also, I love my kids the pain of being apart from them would be unbearable. I won't cheat. And I can't live celibate. All I've got is trying to find a way through. All alternatives are disastrous.
> 
> I'm willing to talk and make whatever efforts I can. Maybe palce a time limit on it. I don't know. Sorry, I'm lost. Guess that's why I'm here...



You do not need to threaten to leave, you do need to make it crystal clear that you are unhappy with the crappy state of your sex life. Repeatedly. Start with once every other week. Stop trying to not upset her. Get ready for lot's of "all you think about is sex!" Yes, own it. When you ignore us 10% of the problem becomes 90% of the problem.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Does your W have a history of depression? Or any ongoing medical conditions? Or does she routinely take medications for those conditions? 

Does she take birth control pills? The hormones in those can impact libido.

If she isn't on the pill, how are you handling birth control? Is she scared to death that she will get pregnant again?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Moderator Note:. Please no more thread jacking. Start a new discussion on the topic.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Spacehog said:


> This has kind of been my conclusion. Everything else takes priority.


Welcome to the rut. The self made place were parents are room mates. Kids are the priority. The once thrilling relationship has sailed like a cargo ship. Mentally both are elsewhere. However, one wants to change that. The other, continues to like the rut. One less person to look after or care for. It is....comfortable. 

I see you have stated your case several times. It appears to have fallen on deaf ears. Seek marriage counseling. I would say your W needs to hear and have explained these issues from third party.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Spacehog said:


> Hi All, thanks for the many responses. Just to clarify a few things.
> 
> Yes, we have talked about this numerous times. We agree that we should have set date nights, because you can't go from nothing to full on. However, these date nights don't happen. Dam it, someone has to instigate that. The other week I sent a message to my wife saying let's have dinner together after the kids have gone to bed. She forgot, ate dinner with the kids, and then I was so fed up I didn't bother with anything. Neither did she.
> 
> ...


"Wife why are you sabotaging our date nights?" You need to start to see this as deliberate choices by your wife, not just events that she is powerless to control.

Maybe you need to be more selfish for a while. Your wife has no problem being so. Lots of women are attracted to aloof men. 

Besides that why not get your Mom or someone to watch the kids and book a hotel and a nice restaurant in the city or something. Take her out to buy a dress ahead of time. Send her some texts, tell he she is hot. Kiss her neck. Whatever it is. Pay attention to when she talks and tells you something is important to her and make a mental note. Then speak to her about it or provide it when the time is right. The point is you want to make that connection.

But because it has to be said. Your wife is a SAHM right? You should probably do some checking. Did you check your phone, do you have access to her phone? I know it sucks but it happens all the time. SAH parents have lots of time on their hands.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Usually when tho moderator plays the thread jack card, and I can't identify the thread jack I abandon the thread as a bad job.
But today, especially after reading this all too familiar tale, I just don't give a ****. 

I'm here to address the OP ( @Spacehog )'s problem by talking directly to him. You have neatly crossed off most of the common problems. You have indeed done the right things. There are 2 things that are a bit iffy. The first is Quality time. I'm no expert on this. In fact I once started a whole thread just to figure out what "quality time" is. (turns out it is whatever the relationship needs). So you have kids down time and instead of talking, or playing, or flirting and sparking, you are watching TV that you don't even like. I get it. I've got the same problem. My only advice is to put your chair between her and the television. No promises, it might work. In my case about one in four times I knock the kindle out of her hands she actually talks to me.

Second is something that has been hinted at but not said. Many women are sexually attracted to men that they find mysterious and "interesting". This is one of those things about you that you can change. You can be "interesting". But to do it you can't be such a great husband. You have to do things that you don't tell her about. It's ok if you take the kids. In fact I recommend it. For example sign your 7 year old son up for Cub scouting, and get involved. "honey. it's cubs night, we'll grab a bite after meeting." That's it. Just go be all manly. You said you have hobbies, can they require more time? road trips? Money? Go for it. She can't be interested unless there is a mystery to solve. And if she is not interested, you are not "interesting". 

Finally, you stated that you can't live in celibacy. It's too late, you are. Sex is a hobby that you only do on anniversaries, birthdays and christmas. It's like Cake, you probably wouldn't have much trouble giving up Cake, because it only happens 4 times a year. You honestly have nothing sexual to lose.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Mr. Nail said:


> Usually when tho moderator plays the thread jack card, and I can't identify the thread jack I abandon the thread as a bad job.


If you can't identify the thread jack then I did an excellent job of deleting it.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

dadstartingover said:


> Well, I wrote a book on the subject, so I wouldn't be a good salesman/vendor without bringing it up:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I see this kind of response on TAM so often and I guess I decided it's time to respond. LEARN your spouses language of love. If your spouses primary language is acts of service (like mine). It makes for someone I'd really like to ****. The men who are all about go to the gym blAh blah blah that works for women who are motivated by looks. But when my husband lost 80 pounds training for triathlons was when my desire dropped. Because my primary and secondary languages are acts of service and time together. Both took a hit with training 2-4 hours a days.

Be honest with your wife. Scheduling can work. You both are incredibly busy and she may not realize how little sex you both are having. Responsive desire means she gets turned on when something is happening not necessarily before, so that can make getting something going difficult. Figure out what make her tick there are surveys with the 5 languages of love. Dating your wife keeps relationships strong.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Ok read deeper into the thread. Don't wait for queues. If she forgets and eats dinner go out anyway. Say is like to spend time with you guess you can watch me eat while we talk. Or I'll grab a sandwich and we can go bowling instead of dinner. Don't necessarily go to the movies you need to talk be together as a couple not just mom and dad.

After spending time ( more than a day). Working on rebuilding your connection, time. Then schedule sex on one of your dates. Say I love you and I miss being with you. We get so busy and such that we hardly get a chance to be together. Let's just schedule sex so we both know it's coming and we don't make other plans. How about every "blank". Saturday morning. Let the kids stay up a little late on Friday you guys get up about an hour before they do. 

And don't underestimate how much children can zap a woman's libido. We get touched out, everyone wants a piece of me out. Emotionally exhausted.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Don’t wait for subtle signs from her. Initiate. Don’t be so passive. Some women love when their man aggressively initiates.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

OP, something that is important to note. 

All of the suggestions from people regarding love languages, empathy for being busy or parents, household chores, etc., are all important...but not most important.

Most important is if your wife is willing to meet you somewhere near half way.

If she isn't, all of the aforementioned will be like adding water to a bucket full of holes...and will only serve to frustrate you further.

Your attitude should be incredibly simple, direct, and completely serious:

We either make our marriage great together, or we find great with someone else. 

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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I would caution you strongly against bringing up divorce unless you are really ready to take that step. Don't do it as a bluff. It will be shocking for her--an unemployed SAHM--to hear and will change the relationship. Maybe it will change it for the better, but maybe it will create fear and uncertainty in her that pulls her away. If you need some time apart, just phrase it that you need time to clear your head and think things through. But again, don't throw out separation as a bluff. It should only be done if you are ready to take that step. You should try things like reading marriage books, counseling, etc. that are more about building a strong relationship. If she pushes back and shuts down, then it's clearer what steps you'll need to take next.

I'm not too surprised that she's worn out in the evening and just wants to chill and relax. Is there anything you can to do have productive relaxation times other than TV? Like, if you have a patio, get a fire pit, a 2-seater swinging bench, and some cozy blankets. Then instead of watching TV, sit by the fire drinking wine and chatting. She'll get her relaxation time, but you'll also be strengthening your emotional relationship.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Spacehog said:


> Hi All, thanks for the many responses. Just to clarify a few things.
> 
> Yes, we have talked about this numerous times. We agree that we should have set date nights, because you can't go from nothing to full on. However, these date nights don't happen. Dam it, someone has to instigate that. The other week I sent a message to my wife saying let's have dinner together after the kids have gone to bed. She forgot, ate dinner with the kids, and then I was so fed up I didn't bother with anything. Neither did she.
> 
> ...


I would really hate your approach and would hate you thinking a date - throw a dog a bone, in other words - will get you sex. I'm horny most of the time and have a happy, if not exhausted husband, but you wouldn't get any from me. You also wouldn't get any by the methods, threats, ultimatums, and she ought to just do it mentalies people are telling you to employ. You have responded to several of them, and I'm wondering why you haven't responded to my post. In none of your responses have I read you say anything about spending time with your wife. You only mentioned the talks and the dates you plan to get sex. You say you don't go about it under that pretext, but your wife isn't stupid. She knows. What she gets out of your discussions and date planning is you demanding sex. The only questions are if she feels she has reasons for resentment (which you can't tell us), whether she feels otherwise neglected, and whether the sexual encounters give her satisfaction. These are three reasons women sometimes don't want to have to sex. The are others, such as some women losing libido and don't know why, but these are the three main ones.

It's interesting that the responses to these no-sex kinds of threads always jump on the poster's side to point to the wife and how awful and inconsiderate and disrespectful and unloving she is, so I guess I can understand you ignoring my post that doesn't entirely support your point of view and might suggest that something is required of you, or that you may in some way contribute to her lack of desire. But just food for thought, the responses you received in this thread are exact repeats of the responses in all the other threads of this topic. And please believe they are numerous, almost daily, and almost daily down through the years. Believe also that I've never read anybody come back to report any kind of improvement in their sex life, so I'm not really sure why so many people continue to repeat the same unhelpful advice, commiserations, and wife bashing.

I'm only trying to submit a different approach and method, one that takes your wife's needs into consideration in order to get your needs addressed. In another article, *How Can A Husband Receive The Sex He Needs*, Dr. Harley notes that getting the sex you need requires negotiation, which is the reason I said something is required of you. Understanding that something is required of you is half your battle. Knowing what is required and properly executing that strategy gets you claiming victory....on a regular, if not frequent basis. Read his article and incorporate his instructions with @Anastasia6's suggestions.

Just to note there was one person I've heard of that had success in improving their sex life because they had their wife read an online article/blog that she found helpful. But I can't remember the name of it. If anyone knows what I'm referring to, please post a link to the blog. The title goes something like "The ____________ Wife." I can tell you it's definitely NOT the book titled "The Surrendered Wife" by Laura Doyle. The blank line stood for a different word.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

LOL After spending most of the day trying to find this blog, I remembered the name shortly after posting above.

The Forgiven Wife

There are lots of articles and resources, and she also has articles For Husbands, For Wives, and Understanding Your Wife.

Much of her blog is religious-based but the concepts are universal, so if you and/or your wife are not religious, there is still a lot to glean from her articles. You read and ask your wife to read. I hope it helps.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

All of the above is true, because different low desire spouses react differently to each potential "cure".
If your spouse won't tell you what he or she needs (they may not know), you have to proceed by trial and error and informed guessing.
In some substantial portion of sexless marriage cases, one of the previously mentioned behavioral changes would work. But no one of them works for every low desire spouse.

Then again, in a non-trivial portion of the "sexless marriage" cases, the problem is that your spouse married someone they do not find even remotely sexually attractive, but find very attractive for the role of spouse and daily companion. In those cases, nothing will work and it is just a question of how much abuse you are willing to take until you call it quits.

What makes this excruciatingly difficult is that there is no easy and reliable test to determine whether you are among the fixable or the unfixable. But if you had to bet money, bet on how much sex you had the first year you were together. If you had lots of sex the first year, good chance you are among the fixable. If you had little sex and got many promises that "things will get better once we get to know one another better", good bet that you are among the unfixable.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Hey brother, it sounds like you’ve got a great woman who is spending her days and nights in “mommy mode” and frankly it’s your job to pull her out of it. You do that by taking her away at least once a week, wooing her continually, and when you get her warmed up- you advance on her until you’ve brought her back into “woman and lover” mode at which point you make passionate love to her, repeatedly. Remind her she was your lover first.

I get the feeling you’re being too passive. I bet you weren’t that passive when you were dating. Remember, as the man it IS your job to woo and pursue!

You’d also be less resentful if you just “took” her sometimes. Next time she goes off to take a shower, just go jump in there with her and take her. I started doing this (albeit selfish) act recently and my wife has actually thanked me for it... she was happy to oblige my need, it made her feel sexy, and desired.

Just remember, if you aren’t having sex, it’s really YOUR fault because you’re in charge. This assumes you haven’t done something awful such that she hates you....


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Nope. I don't get this at all. This post reads like a woman is a child in the areas of life of keeping up a close relationship and sex life. No agency. No responsibility. No accountability. It's a man's JOB alone to make sure a woman balances the areas of her life? It's a man's job alone to make sure a couple has a sex life? No. Both partners need to participate in this. 

Men: In 2019, both partners are responsible for keeping a relationship close and good, and women really do have personalities, and responsibilities to a relationship. 



CatholicDad said:


> Hey brother, it sounds like you’ve got a great woman who is spending her days and nights in “mommy mode” and frankly it’s your job to pull her out of it. You do that by taking her away at least once a week, wooing her continually, and when you get her warmed up- you advance on her until you’ve brought her back into “woman and lover” mode at which point you make passionate love to her, repeatedly. Remind her she was your lover first.
> 
> I get the feeling you’re being too passive. I bet you weren’t that passive when you were dating. Remember, as the man it IS your job to woo and pursue!
> 
> ...


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Anastasia6 said:


> I see this kind of response on TAM so often and I guess I decided it's time to respond. LEARN your spouses language of love. If your spouses primary language is acts of service (like mine). It makes for someone I'd really like to ****. The men who are all about go to the gym blAh blah blah that works for women who are motivated by looks. But when my husband lost 80 pounds training for triathlons was when my desire dropped. Because my primary and secondary languages are acts of service and time together.  Both took a hit with training 2-4 hours a days.


I talk to a lot of guys about this topic... and the vast majority are well-aware of the "love languages" theory and have acts of serviced themselves right into the deadest of bedrooms. Wife: "I like when you do things that help our family, like helping me clean the house, picking up the kids, fixing things..." Husband: "You got it! I will be the bestest husband in the world!"

*months go by with no sex*

If you're truly sexually aroused by your husband's ability to help out around the house and get nothing out of him being a fit, healthy and independent man who reaches the goal of completing a triathlon... I'm thinking you're in the minority.

"More Lover, less Provider" is what I prescribe to these guys and it works almost every time.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Livvie said:


> Nope. I don't get this at all. This post reads like a woman is a child in the areas of life of keeping up a close relationship and sex life. No agency. No responsibility. No accountability. It's a man's JOB alone to make sure a woman balances the areas of her life? It's a man's job alone to make sure a couple has a sex life? No. Both partners need to participate in this.
> 
> Men: In 2019, both partners are responsible for keeping a relationship close and good, and women really do have personalities, and responsibilities to a relationship.


 @Livvie, without calling out specific posters, there are threads that have been active within the last week where this very thing has been noted, with suggestions that they live with it while finding ways around it.

By no stretch am I suggesting it to be an always / never occurrence, but it is far more common than some would like to believe.

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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

My wife is the hyper vigilant mother type that would literally lay down her life for her kids... I do consider it my job (and a bit of a game and even responsibility) to bring her out of that role... I mean, we BOTH have to serve each other’s needs. My need is for her as my beautiful lover so I’m glad to encourage this sometimes dormant aspect of her personality. Flowers, wine, and listening bring my wife out of her “shell”. Works like magic. It isn’t transactional though... rather I try and set the mood and await my chance. Dirty talk, innuendo, sit down talks about “my needs” get you nowhere! Hugs, genuine care and support and love and a little romance is what brings my wife out of mommy mode. This is my experience, and my wife and I have more kids and probably been parents for a decade longer than most.

My wife’s not a child. She often has to bring me out of “worker mode” as I tend to get obsessed with work. The point is, we can all get a little stuck in our own heads and need to be pulled back to reality!


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## bkyln309 (Feb 1, 2015)

My ex husband was pretty much asexual. I think we had sex 3 or 4 times a year if that. He simply did not desire sex. No matter what we tried, he lacked the motivation to make it work. It was one of the major reasons we divorced though not the only.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Spacehog, you seem awfully passive about this. It could be that you just have to insist on sex right now. As it is, she doesn't have to do anything. You support her and she takes advantage of you, as though you are last on the list. I hate to say it, but maybe her mind is somewhere else, or
on somebody else. Cheaters can devise ways to cheat that would never occur to a non-cheater. If it were me, I's file. That might get her attention.


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## Balto109 (Jan 28, 2020)

I'll have to check out that book too. I posted a question about how my wife recently shared her journals with me and sex was great before our first child...he is 7 now and things started to really fizzle following his birth. My wife had said she wanted to have another baby and I said that would be awesome but we should practice more and we had another baby 2 years later and she's five now. I got really depressed over not having sex...3x in 2019, 6 times in 2018, 11 times in 2017, and 16 times in 2016. It's pretty bad when I have the stats on this too. Throw in getting laid off from 4 companies and my father who was in and out of the hospital and past away, I really felt at the lowest in my life. 

I love my wife very much, I'm very attracted to her, and she even admitted being neglectful. She also mentioned a couple times that she really doesn't enjoy sex, so I've been very patient. When she shared her journal with me, she also had a notation in there when she was 20 that said "I have yet to get pleasure from sex". We discussed the lack of intimacy before the new year and she said she would put effort in to do it more...granted that since Dec. 31, we're up to 3 times...she also joked that we're ahead of where we've been last year...I was not amused. The thing that kills me are so many times she's asked if I would like a BJ later and they never happen and this morning she told me how happy and in love she is with me and she wanted to get "frisky" tonight...that never happened.

The big thing I've done is a lot of reflecting on me. for the past month I have been going to the gym everyday. I do some things I like and I talk to friends. I also jump in to help out with anything I can do even if she's not happy with the way I load the dishwasher or do the kids laundry. I started a new job back in September where I work from home, so I jump in and do everything. It has freaked her out because she said she's seen all this and she did ask me if I met someone. Which I have not. We've been together going on 14 years, 10 of which are married. I've been focusing on my sanity and health and I figure if things don't shape up, we need to see a counselor or as much as I would hate to, it might be time to separate. I've been focused on my kids but enough is enough. 

One other thing that has bothered me is a comment about my wanting to change my wife because not only have I asked for more intimacy, from time to time I like to see her in lingerie and heels. I've expressed that I love the way she is, she's beautiful, sexy, intelligent, and the occasions she wears those things is like having beautiful wrapping paper on a beautiful present. 

In some ways I feel as if I was duped but it was also a running joke with friends that when she was pregnant the first time, oh my life would change.


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## sunchild15 (Jul 4, 2016)

Spacehog said:


> We have been married for ten years now. My wife is fantastic in so many ways she is a wonderful mother to our two small children. I run a business and she is stay at home, our eldest is at school, youngest at nursery. She is kind, funny, we dont argue in destructive ways but....
> 
> Our sex life is dead. We have sex maybe four or five times a year. It's as if the entire universe has to align for this to happen. I feel like an old man, but I'm not old. I'm in good shape, and I don't think I'm a bad catch (just being objective!). The lack of intimacy is eating at my soul, I can barely stand it. I feel sad and alone. I do so much for my family, it's no chore, I love them. I have built a business that gives me flexibility. I get up at 6am every day with my son and give him breakfast end get him ready for school. I help with everything around the house. I cook. I do spontaneous things. I come home for kids bedtime every day. I have my own interests and friends. I don't pressure for anything. This lack of intimacy has crept up on me and I have a sick, hollow feeling. There is anger and growing resentment too. It's worse becuase I find her incredibly attractive. Our physical relationship before marriage was incredible. When we do have sex now, she says she can't understand why we dont do it more often, because it's great.
> 
> ...



Wow, I am in less than sexless. Nothing in almost 4 years. I am so baffled how this happens. I know people do not intentionally do this or mean to, but lately that song "WICKED GAME" seems to ring a bell, there is some weird dynamic with this in marriages. Its ****ed to say the least, men always expected to provide and support no matter how we feel. Seems like wives always have feeling conditions, its like very their way ...They can do something and have no boundaries when they want something or want to do it .. then conditions show up when it comes to your partner and their needs ? LOL


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Sometimes wives go off sex. Especially after having kids. We'll never know why. It is what it is. It's soul-destroying, but I believe men should be taught that sex doesn't last forever. I don't think men should get married if they won't be able to accept this. It might be a strange idea, but going into marriage "prepared" or not going at all would save a lot of heartache... especially if you are a silly romantic person like me.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> Sometimes wives go off sex. Especially after having kids. We'll never know why. It is what it is. It's soul-destroying, but I believe men should be taught that sex doesn't last forever. I don't think men should get married if they won't be able to accept this. It might be a strange idea, but going into marriage "prepared" or not going at all would save a lot of heartache... especially if you are a silly romantic person like me.


Men would be better staying away from marriage altogether. But if you want kids then I think marriage has its purposes. Just know, like you said, it comes with a tradeoff oftentimes.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Balto109 said:


> if I would like a BJ later and they never happen and this morning she told me how happy and in love she is with me and she wanted to get "frisky" tonight...that never happened.


It’s been my experience that these statements have very short-lived expiration times.



Balto109 said:


> . One other thing that has bothered me is a comment about my wanting to change my wife because not only have I asked for more intimacy, from time to time I like to see her in lingerie and heels. I've expressed that I love the way she is, she's beautiful, sexy, intelligent, and the occasions she wears those things is like having beautiful wrapping paper on a beautiful present.



This has bugged me always. Having two main things TAKEN from me and painting me into a corner:

1) I’m supposed to have only eyes for my wife so I give them to her. Compliments, etc. She then takes that away from me with her insecurities, anxiety, lower self-esteem by covering up, dressing frumpy and shaming me for looking at her that way. God forbid see she’s me looking in the direction of another woman. Well if you don’t want my eyes what I do with it?

2) I’m supposed to give her my erotic love and fantasize only for her. She then takes that away from me with low energy sex, arbitrary desire expiration times, excuses, and shaming me for being horny. Well if you don’t want give or take erotic love then what I supposed to do?

This is why less men are not married getting. They’re being painted into a corner and the cost to leave is half your stuff + alimony + child support.

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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

A number of posters in the thread recommended pretty strong reactions in order to try to get these lower libido wives in bed. Seems like the simplest solution is to just try. Also, treat yourself with respect and treat your marriage like an equal partnership. That should help maintain the attraction level IMHO.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Spacehog, nothing seems to get your W's attention. Tell her you must have it by some date. Insist. If she doesn't comply, FILE on her. That will get her attention. It looks to me like you are no. 25 on her list of importance. And you are a SLAVE to her! Stop it.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> Sometimes wives go off sex. Especially after having kids. We'll never know why. It is what it is. It's soul-destroying, but I believe men should be taught that sex doesn't last forever. I don't think men should get married if they won't be able to accept this. It might be a strange idea, but going into marriage "prepared" or not going at all would save a lot of heartache... especially if you are a silly romantic person like me.


Or maybe people who become the LD person in the relationship should be taught that it has consequences of ruining their relationship, or be willing to allow the HD person to seek their needs elswhere and accept it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Always Learning said:


> Or maybe people who become the LD person in the relationship should be taught that it has consequences of ruining their relationship, or be willing to allow the HD person to seek their needs elswhere and accept it.


This too... :smile2:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@Spacehog,

A lot of marriages suffer from the same thing yours is suffering from. The two of you have ignored your relationship and put your energy into the tasks of family instead of the passion of marriage.

The relationship between you and your wife should be the priority, it's the foundation of your family. And, if you and your wife stay together you two will be alone with each other long after your children are grown and gone. Always put the most effort into that which will be around the longest.

There is a saying that I like. It's a bit simple but gets the idea across. _"Women need a reason to have sex. Men just need a place."_

In a relationship, for men physical intimacy is usually enough to continue his passion for his wife. Women also need a fair amount of non-sextual intimacy in order to continue to have passion for their husband. It's just the way women are wired. The problem with your marriage is not ONLY that it's sexless (less than 10 times a year is considered sexless), the problem is first that your marriage relationship is badly broken. You have to fix the relationship and get the non-sexual intimacy back before your wife's desire for sexual intimacy will return.

From what you have written here, there is no non-sexual intimacy going on in your relationship. It's really all just the business of taking care of the home and the children.

You say that you and your wife spend time together after the children are in bed but use that time to watch TV. That's not really spending time together, it's the two of you doing something separate in the same room.

A couple should spend at least 15 hours a week together in quality time, alone, without anyone else involved. This means spending time talking to each other and focusing on each other. Instead of watching TV (aka ignoring each other), you two should be talking, snuggling, etc. 

While it's both of yours' responsibility to maintain your marriage relationship, your wife is not here. She most likely has issues but we don't know what they are. You have not really shared with us the things that she tells you are problems in your marriage. So we can only talk about what you can do to motivate her. You are going to have to be the person who initiates the changes since you are the one with an issue. 

My suggestion is that you get the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Read them in that order. Do the work that they say to do. Then, after that talk to your wife about how profoundly unhappy you are about things. Tell her that you are contemplating divorce but do not really want to do that because you lover her and the children. Ask her to read the books with you and then the two of you do the work together. 

There are also some good books out there on how to address a sexless marriage. Here's just one of them.

The Sex-Starved Marriage: Boosting Your Marriage Libido: A Couple's Guide


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