# Is meaningless sex a Lack of Love or health related??



## Isis71 (Mar 5, 2010)

Please help me....My husband (41 yrs old) and I had a great relationship for 17 years. The past 2 years have been so rocky. Before we had sex 3+ times per week, with lots of variety, adventure and fun. There was also a lot of affection out of the bedroom ie. kissing, groping, snuggling. About two years ago, husband was under a lot of stress (money, work etc...) I recall a couple of times when I initiated sex that he couldn't maintain an erection but it was not a constant so I was not concerned. Fast forward some time, I found out that husband was taking Cialis but didn't want to tell me because he was embarrassed. I wish he would have becasue the change in our sex life left me feeling alone and undesirable and I wasn't sure what happened. As a result I pulled back as well. Well this all came out and he had his testosterone tested, came back normal. He is on the daily Cialis still. We now have sex twice per week (98% initiated by me) but there is no connection and it is *always *in the same position (me on my back and his on his side). We went from always behaving like horny teenagers to lift a leg and stick it in. Husband used to love performing oral on me and now I would say it has happened once or twice in the past year. He is no longer affectionate outside of the bedroom either. I am at a loss. I want what we used to have even if it is toned down a bit. I have tried to bring back the spice and affection but feel like there is always an invisible wall there. What can I do? Does it sound like this is health related (ED, depression..)? Because I feel like he doesn't love me anymore and that I am a prostitute. Someone to f***but not feel anything for. I should also mention a) He has no energy B) he does nothing around the house anymore c) when this all first started he even withdrew from our children but this is not a prob now. Husband used to enjoy porn (we often watched together) but he hasn't even done that much in the past two years. 

Do i just keep trying and hope one day things return? What do I do?????? Has anyone else experienced something similar? Do I withhold sex until he can show it means something or do I continue to "just do it". I dont want to be a witch but I am not sure what to do.


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## steve71 (Feb 5, 2010)

Isis, from what you've said here your man is showing signs of real depression. It can feel like life itself has come to an end. If that's the case, he needs your love and help - and witholding your warmth on any level will just further isolate him. If he can't talk to you about his troubles - often, deeply depressed people just can't find words to express their feelings - how about trying a doctor or a counselor?


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## Isis71 (Mar 5, 2010)

Thank you for your response steve71. I am trying to be soooo understanding but it has been so long since I have felt any affection. For so many years we had the kind of relationship that movies were made of. We always kissed, touched everything. I am trying not to take it personal and I continue to initiate, which he does respond to but with out enthusiasm. I have talked to him about a seeing a counsellor but he doesn't believe in therapy. I do not want to give him an ultimatum because I don't think that is fair and I love him like crazy. I have written him a long note telling him how i feel and that if he doesn't love me, tell me. If he does and it is medical related I will hang in for as long as it takes as we are worth it. He just says "that is sweet". I am just so frustrated and fighting hard not to take it personal but I also don't want to continue having sex when I am left to feel like a $10 hooker. If he knows how much it is hurting me can he not try a little kiss or hug or something? I would like to think I would even if I was depressed.


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## lola1978 (Mar 8, 2010)

Hi Isis
I am sorry for what you and your husband are going through. I am in a similar situation although my husband is not suffering from the same symptoms yours is. I read what Steve71 wrote and I agree with him. I have worked psychiatric nursing for a long time now and have dealt with many men suffering from depression. Of course I do not know the whole situation and cannot say this is what is wrong with your husband since I do not know you, but it does sound as this is the problem. Especially for men, it seems that admitting depression, especially to their wives, family, friends, feels emasculating. Sadly there also may not be a cause for the depression, it could be a chemical imbalance, something that makes it harder to deal with when there seems to be no "problem" to solve. 
I want to ask how long he has been Celexa? Celexa itself can cause a significant drop in sexual desire. And if the Celexa is not working, the depression itself can cause all the feelings of withdraw and lack of desire. Is it possible to have your husband talk to the doctor about changing his medication? Wellbutrin is a medication that can help with the depression symptoms and help to increase sexual desire. A simple med change could make a world of difference.
As for what you should do.. this is harder. As it sounds as your husband's behavior is because of a medical condition, I would recommend doing everything you can to help him through it. It may help to think of his mental health just like physical health. Right now part of him is "broken". If it were a physical condition that left him unable to have sex or desire would you be more understanding? Not to say you are not, from your post it seems you are trying very hard. 
Try to be patient as hard as this is. If you had a movie like relationship for 15 years, and it has only been the last two that it has been like this then I do not think you are the problem. And ask him about therapy again. Therapy in conjunction with medication can help so much. If he will not go because he says he doesn't need it (a common refrain among men, it is harder for them to open up like women for the most part) then ask him to go for you. Make yourself an appointment to speak to a counselor. This could help you as well as having a spouse suffering from chronic depression is a very difficult situation. Once you have gone a few times ask him to go with you. Tell him that speaking with the counselor about his perspective of your home life would be very beneficial to you as the counselor can then get a better idea of how things work at home from both points of view. If you can make the therapy seem like it is all for you then he might be more receptive. I know this is slightly deceiving, but if it could help him then it is worth it. Besides, it could also help you too. 
I do hope everything works out for you and your husband. It's not often you hear that couple's had such a wonderful marriage for 15 years before there was problems. You seem to be doing everything you can even though you are clearly hurting and I have to commend you for that. A lot of other people would have given up. I hope some of this helped you. And I hope for your sake you and your husband are able to get back to the marriage you had before, or maybe an even better one because you were able to get through this together.


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## Isis71 (Mar 5, 2010)

Lola1978 Thank you for your very supportive letter. I did want to say that I made a mistake in my original post. I work in a hospital and had been typing info about Celexa. My H has actually been taking Cialis. I appreciate your thoughtfulness. And yes, you are right, the only thing that keeps me going is that I had so many wonderful years. Every time there is a glimmer of improvement I get so excited. But on the same token every time there seems to be a setback i become more discouraged. I guess I really need to vent and get some feedback. I have not discussed any of this with my friends or family because my husband would not want people to know that he has ED and I will always respect that, but I feel so alone. I try not to carry on or discuss it to much with him because I don't think he needs the guilt if it is depression. So really the two responses I have received have been so beneficial in just letting me express my thoughts and getting some feedback. Sorry this is so long.....


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## Isis71 (Mar 5, 2010)

Lola 

You mentioned you are experiencing the same thing. What is happening with you??? It is so hard to know what to do. When it is an obvious physical injury you can recognize it for what it is instead of wondering is it depression, no love, affair, etc... The list of questions goes on and on......


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## lola1978 (Mar 8, 2010)

Hi Isis,
To answer your question about what is happening with me I actually posted my problem on here ("so lonely and needing advice badly") to see if anyone had any insight for me. Where our situations differ is that unless my husband has been hiding it extremely well for the past several years, he is not suffering from depression. So I am at a loss and what to do with my marriage. Not the best thing to hear from someone giving you marital advice I am sure, but I have always been better at trying to help other people with their problems and ailments than I am at helping myself. 
Now you said you mistyped and your husband is actually taking Cialis on a daily basis. Now Cialis will not help his depression and it sounds like that is the underlying cause of all the problems especially with the examples you gave at the end of your first post. An antidepressant, especially one without the loss of libido side effects, might help your husband immensely. He would have be willing to take them and of course it takes one to two months for some of them to start working to full effect, but if they could work for him, it is well worth it. Also, in conjunction with an antidepressant he may want to talk to his doctor about changing the Cialis. Some men have great results, but for others Levitra or Viagra taken on a prn basis work so much better than the daily Cialis. Your husband and you would have to go trial and error on this one to see what works best, but maybe you could try to make that more fun and playful rather than the reminder that he needs the medication to be able to preform. Do you think your husband is willing to try the med changes? Or if not, how is your relationship with his doctor? I know my husband and I (along with our children) all have the same doc. We have actually grown close to him and he was an incredible friend when we were adopting our two children with some problems. And because of my medical experience both my husband and my doctor trust my judgment. So I went to the doctor for myself and ended up getting prescriptions for my husband. Even now, when my husband needs something (like for anxiety, etc) I go to the doctor for him, tell the doc my professional opinion and viola, my husband has what he needs. If at all possible maybe you going to talk to your husband's doc can get him some help and he gets to avoid the embarrassment of having to talk to the doc about a very touchy subject.


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## Isis71 (Mar 5, 2010)

Thanks Lola, I found your post. It is conforting knowing that there are so many people experiencing the same thing.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Isis71: 

It is good you got your husbands testosterone tested, but I wonder.... You mentioned he still has a great lack of energy. This could very well be depression, but it still could be a testosterone problem. I have 3 books on this issue, so I have learned alot. 

The  so called "Normal" range is SO vast (250 - 1000), that some men still fall into this "normal range" when infact, their numbers have dropped significantly -to the point of them needing treatment. For instance, if your husband was normally in the 900 range (when all things were GREAT sexually, good energy level) , and his numbers dropped into the 400 range, he will feel TERRIBLE, dragging, maybe some brain fog, almost Ill. 

Whereas a man who is normally 500 range most of his life, if he drops to even 350, he would be functioning BETTER than the man in the 400 range! 
Many men have had this trouble when going for these tests, cause some Doctors just look at these Lab numbers and give you a clean bill of health WITHOUT considering the symptoms. They need to do both. Do you know what his numbers was , did you ask the doctor, did he get them 3 days in a row in the early morning ?? 

My husband went through this testing, he is in the lower end of normal but he functions well, he does not need treatment, but I have talked to many men whose numbers were HIGHER than my husbands who WAS getting treatment and it made a world of difference in their sex life, their energy level, their whole sense of being. Many have claimed that Encronologists are almost the worst when it comes to getting treatment for this, as they care more about Lab numbers than symptoms. I don't know, just something to consider. 

It is hard to know as men usually never get tested when they are younger , so then the Doctors have no "baseline" numbers to go by -to see how far, in fact, their numbers have dropped when they start showing symptoms. Normally they should only go down 1-2% a year as they age. 


Here is an article on sex drive & testosterone -explaining some of this...


Low Testosterone


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## Sierra61 (Feb 22, 2010)

SimplyAmorous is absolutely correct. When a doctor tells you a man's t. level is "normal," it frequently is anything but. I have vast experience with this since my husband suffered from horribly low t. for many years before getting on testosterone replacement therapy (injections).

Normal in most labes is 200-1000, but even a 90 year old man had t. levels usually in the 300's. When a man has a level this low, they will not even get or maintain an erection while receiving oral sex. 

You want your husband in the level of 800 or above for frequent and intense sex. PLEASE ask your husband to be re-tested and to find out his exact t. number. All of his symptoms are consistent with low t.


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## Isis71 (Mar 5, 2010)

I have talked to H and he will call the doctor to find out his actual T levels. They told him normal and he accepted that. He has been greatly affected by all of this and if it is his T levels then I think there would be a lot of relief. Two years ago, H was sooo sexual that he was like a teenager. Every move I made was countered with some sexuality or affection from him. So it is very hard to accept now that all this has changed so drastically. We are now talking more openly about the Cialis but he still seems unsure (or so he says) about the lack of interest or cause for it. It has been such a long road and so very consuming. I would just like to get to the bottom of it so that we can start rebuilding. He has been verbally displaying a lot more caring behaviour lately and he has initiated sex twice in the past 1 1/2 weeks but there still remains a lack of inimate connection.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Please let us know when you get his numbers, and if this Doc is willing to look into this further. My husbands lab numbers were 350ish-450ish , he is in his mid 40's, but we have sex almost daily, so I know , for him , he is just a lower Test man (not needing treamtment)- He was NEVER a sexual animal like some men, even when he was younger, so his levels have probably remained consistent over the years. I only had him tested when MY sex drive went up & I wanted it like 3 times a day. Kinda funny looking back. 

But it sounds like your husband WAS (a sexual animal) , so maybe his levels took a BIG DIVE. >>>>

Maybe he was originally in the 800's and he is down to maybe 400's and he will feel awful if this is the case. 

I know from talking to some wives whose husbands have started this treatment, OH my, get ready, he will be that sexual animal again once his levels are restored.


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