# For all you swingers out there



## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

In the last week we have had two gentlemen on here lamenting the fact that after talking, cajoling, encouraging, enticing, and introducing into the the lifestyle, their wives. They now have to deal with unforeseen issues. Like their wives falling in love with men their husband encouraged them to spread their legs for. For the enlightened ones here who believe the lifestyle can enhance their marriage experience, a few thoughts.

Men, you may believe that this could add a little pepper to your marriage. The problem lies with the make up of men and women. A man can look at sex as just that. SEX. He does not necessarily feel a connection with a woman, because of it. A woman on the other hand, in most cases, makes an investment when she allows a man to enter up inside her. In many cases a woman has a deep spiritual connection with the man when they have coitus. While it is true that there are women who can compartmentalize the sex. I believe that this is not the norm. 

Think about this for a moment men. When you allow some other man to do your wife, you are risking more then you imagine on a couple of different fronts. First you risk her finding someone who is better then you in bed. And guess what guys, there is always someone better then you in bed. Next you risk her finding someone she emotionally connects with who tells her " Your husband is insane for letting me do this to you. If you were mine, I would treasure you and hold you forever, I feel so fortunate to be doing you." Next you have the wife like in the recent story who after having an affair, comes to her senses and realizes her husband has been using her to get his yayas by watching other men defile the woman he is supposed to love, honor and cherish. Till death do you part. Hopefully this little talk will alert those out there that are considering letting other men inside their wives. 

Now there will naturally be those marriages that can survive the lifestyle. But I believe those to be a tiny minority. And someone may come right behind me and say. "Hey my wife and I enjoy the lifestyle". Think for a moment. Would the two men that have shared here in the past couple of days, said the very same thing at one point. So the next time a friend or someone you know approaches you. Or you look on line and see a standing invitation to swing with no strings attached. Remember this............There are always strings attached. And some of them may be attached to your wife's heart.


----------



## Frgvn (Mar 15, 2009)

Very good advice. Sadly for some of us, it is already too late.


----------



## KMDillon (Apr 13, 2009)

It's a psychological fact that women release a chemical during sex that creates feelings of love, attachment, etc. Men have this chemical as well but it's minute.


----------



## Sensitive (Mar 29, 2009)

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## findingpeace (Mar 14, 2009)

What i struggle with is the fact that on this site and many other relationship sites nobody dicusses the moral side of things it is a sin to have sex outside your marriage i dont care what anyone thinks adultery is real and anyone who would allow there spouse to sleep with another partner needs to have their head examined and if they get their heart broken it is their own fault and they deserve what they get for a man reaps what a man sows marriage is a holy union it is no wonder divorce rates are sky rocketing in our country when i hear about situations like this why would someone with this kind of thinking get married in the first place when marriage is the ultimate commitment a person can make to another it blows my mind ..........


----------



## reidqa01 (Apr 26, 2009)

#1 rule of swinging is the other person is simply meat for pleasure,

If you cross the line that is the issue, think of a man with hooker, gets ladi move on into the night, a woman with male escort.

No strings and less contact after event.


----------



## LScribbens (Apr 26, 2009)

Initfortheduration said:


> In the last week we have had two gentlemen on here lamenting the fact that after talking, cajoling, encouraging, enticing, and introducing into the the lifestyle, their wives. They now have to deal with unforeseen issues. Like their wives falling in love with men their husband encouraged them to spread their legs for. For the enlightened ones here who believe the lifestyle can enhance their marriage experience, a few thoughts.
> 
> Men, you may believe that this could add a little pepper to your marriage. The problem lies with the make up of men and women. A man can look at sex as just that. SEX. He does not necessarily feel a connection with a woman, because of it. A woman on the other hand, in most cases, makes an investment when she allows a man to enter up inside her. In many cases a woman has a deep spiritual connection with the man when they have coitus. While it is true that there are women who can compartmentalize the sex. I believe that this is not the norm.


First, I think you're making assumptions here. You are discounting both men and women as complex creatures. The idea that women develop a "spiritual connection" is the norm diminishes their role as human beings. Not all sex is "spiritual" for people. Some sex is emotional, some is just physical. Sometimes for the same person sex at any given time can be any combination of spiritual, emotional and/or physical. For you sex may be a spiritual experience, or you feel it should be, but for many, many others it is not. Also, sex for many, many others (women as well as men) is not emotional all the time. Sometimes sex is just sex and both men and women can to it simply to get-off. This may be with someone they love and have emotional or spiritual sex with, but at that moment in time emotions and spirituality doesn't enter into the equation. It is literally just getting-off.

Your comment above has the slight whiff of chauvinism by eluding to the idea that women are not as in-tune with their thoughts and are strictly ruled by emotion. 



> Think about this for a moment men. When you allow some other man to do your wife, you are risking more then you imagine on a couple of different fronts. First you risk her finding someone who is better then you in bed. And guess what guys, there is always someone better then you in bed.


This comment is pretty chauvinistic in that it once again discounts a woman's intelligence and ability to think or to be rational. Your comment insinuates that what makes a woman fall in love with in love with a man is how he rocks her world, and that if she ever knew that someone else could rock her world she'd leave her current partner for the new partner. This comment shows that you don't feel that a woman is smart enough to be in love with a man for who he is, not his penis. You are insinuating that she is such a simple creature that a guy with a bigger penis or better technique could steal her away from her husband, because you know, she's just not smart enough to think for herself and know what she is doing.



> Next you risk her finding someone she emotionally connects with who tells her " Your husband is insane for letting me do this to you. If you were mine, I would treasure you and hold you forever, I feel so fortunate to be doing you."


Again, you are suggesting that women are so dumb that any smooth-talking man can come along and fool her into leaving her partner. To boot, any guy that would say that kind of a thing is a player to begin with and would probably be cheating on her once he "bagged" her anyway.



> Next you have the wife like in the recent story who after having an affair, comes to her senses and realizes her husband has been using her to get his yayas by watching other men defile the woman he is supposed to love, honor and cherish. Till death do you part. Hopefully this little talk will alert those out there that are considering letting other men inside their wives.


The underlying concept of your post is based on women needing to be sheltered because they are gullible creatures that just aren't smart enough to think for themselves, making them easily fooled by any smooth-talking guy that comes along. Good thing they have men like you to protect them.

You are also assuming (falsely) that everyone's idea of "honor" and "cherish" is or should be the same as yours. In reality, it simply isn't.

My wife and I have had an open relationship for many years. Sometimes swinging, sometimes in polyamorous relationships and sometimes a combination of both. Now you don't know me, therefore you don't know how I love, honor and cherish my wife. And you can't tell me how I do because that would be just plain arrogance on your part to assume you can decide for others how they should feel. In fact, I would venture to say that I probably honor, respect and cherish my wife more than most simply because I don't discount her intelligence or worth as a human being, regardless of her gender. She has the ability to make-up her own mind, make her own decisions and make her own mistakes.

True love is much more than sex. It's companionship, friendship, understanding, compassion. It's knowing your partners shortcomings and deepest, darkest secrets and accepting and being in love with them anyway. Most people in relationships never really know their partner because their partner is afraid that if they did they would become judgmental, jealous, hurt or any combination of those. So they never really open-up and talk to them. They never really tell their partner everything. Billy Joel called this "The Stranger" in his song by the same title. It's the person that you and your partner hide from each other for if that person was ever to be exposed it could frighten them away. True love is when your partner has seen The Stranger in you and they still love you. True love is unconditional.

I think any woman that has ever had sex with more than one man will tell you that sex alone is not what makes a relationship or what makes her be "in love" with a man. And I think they would also tell you that even the best sex is not reason enough to stay in a bad relationship. For instance my wife has had other good lovers besides me. She'd been married before me. She had good sex with men before me and she's had good sex with other men in the 11 years we've been together. Has any of that sex been reason to leave me? No. Was good sex enough for her to stay in a bad relationship that didn't meet her needs in other areas? No. Because she, like all women, are smart enough to know that it was just sex and that our relationship is so much more than just sex. We have incredible sex together, however we also have incredible conversations. We have incredible fun together doing everything from cooking to camping to going to Disneyland, etc. We text message each other all day while at work. We can't wait to get home to each other. When together we are almost always touching each other in some manner or another. We truly love being with each other. Everything else is just icing on the cake. There is a huge relief in knowing that the door has been open for them to walk through and leave, and they don't want to; knowing that your partner is with you because they want to be, not because they have to be or they are afraid to leave. There is no doubt in my mind the love my wife has for me.

Which is an important point. If someone would fall in love with someone else just because they had sex with them, the problem isn't sex or swinging, the problem lies within the relationship. For some reason or another they are not happy. If it wasn't this situation with this particular person, it would be something or someone else in the future that prompted them to leave the relationship. No amount of sheltering or "protecting" them will prevent that. If they are unhappy it's just a matter of time. If someone falls in love with a swing partner it was because they are perceived as being a better situation than the one they're in. And why do they feel their current situation is so bad, anyway? Probably because their relationship is in shambles to begin with because of the things both of them have done in the past to damage their relationship. When people "fall in love" and leave their current relationship for a new one, being truly in love is rarely the case. The new relationship is simply different, so it looks better and like a way out of their current situation. Why do you think that although 50% of first marriages fail, 60% of second marriages fail. It's because people are simply running away from a bad situation and using whatever is convenient to do so.



> Now there will naturally be those marriages that can survive the lifestyle. But I believe those to be a tiny minority. And someone may come right behind me and say. "Hey my wife and I enjoy the lifestyle". Think for a moment. Would the two men that have shared here in the past couple of days, said the very same thing at one point.


 They may not, but there was obviously something wrong in their relationship to begin with, it's just easier to lay blame elsewhere. One constant in human nature is that people will never take responsibility for their own actions until they run out of everyone and everything else to blame it on; such as the swinging and the other man/woman.

Swinging is like the icing on the cake of marriage. However, if all the ingredients aren't in the cake to make it solid to begin with, all the icing in the world won't keep it from crumbling.

The fact is that some people do use swinging to try to fix their dying marriage, foolishly believing that having sex with others will magically fix all the damage they've done to their relationship. These people would end-up divorced anyway, swinging sometimes prolongs it or hastens it along. These are the ones that you hear about on Maury and marriage counselors talk about, because lets face it, happily married couples don't go on shock talk shows or go to marriage counselors.


----------



## martino (May 12, 2008)

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## kirkster5 (Sep 23, 2008)

Lscribb-

While I can not discount your statements in certain circumstances the reality is most marriages don't survive after an affair, either agreed upon or not. its not about women being weak and in need of protection. It is scientific fact that when a human female is making love a bonding hormone called oxytocin is released. That's not to say that the ability to ignore its signals is not possible it just leads to a higher possibility of bonding with the person they are having sex with than if there was no sex involved. I know for you guys its working but for most it has severe consequences. its just playing with fire for most.

Your assumption that if everything is right in your marriage and you both agree to "swing" that all will be well is just not borne out with the statistics. The frosting on the cake is often the cause for the candles to be extinguished. Unintentional, sure, but that does not change the result.


----------



## reidqa01 (Apr 26, 2009)

Kirk,

100% incorrect, many swingers do not know the other people. They meet party, sex and say goodbye, no contact beyond the club.

How do you have a relationship when other person is not known.

We have known many and marraige is strong, she does him, he does her then goodbye forever.


----------



## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

By all means LScribbens, share your enlightenment with "Ashamed" and "Retodd" I' am sure all they need to do is explain it like that to their wives, and everything will be just fine.


----------



## KMDillon (Apr 13, 2009)

reidqa01 said:


> Kirk,
> 
> 100% incorrect, many swingers do not know the other people. They meet party, sex and say goodbye, no contact beyond the club.
> 
> ...


Swinging doesn't need to lead to a new relationship to ruin a marriage.


----------



## kirkster5 (Sep 23, 2008)

you are absolutley correct. The immage of someone else banging your spouse is not positive. That aloneb is enough to ruin most marriages.


----------



## reidqa01 (Apr 26, 2009)

Kirk,

If so many would not be married, remember to be an old boyfriend of wife would to meet her banger.

No ruined marriage there.


----------



## SaxonMan (Apr 1, 2009)

Great post InForTheDuration. Thank you.


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

Ya and for all you SWINGERS out there keep it to YOURSELF if you want that dont be Married K. Or find a hooker you little nasties! keep it in your pants and in your own marriage. SERIOUSLY!


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

I know it was rude what I said but seriously thats sick ans what the crap is this world coming to They throw a fit over the gays getting married but its ok to swing BS NASTY. I could never EVER see my H with another it would kill me I just think its wrong.


----------



## AZMOMOFTWO (Jun 30, 2008)

Great post InItForTheDuration. For some they may consider this advice others will do it anyway and later think that post was right on. I have never tried this lifestyle and realize its not for me. If my husband is that bored, then he too must bes boring and he should go so I can find more excitement but in a monogamous relationship. To me its insulting to suggest swinging because you might as well say..."because sex with you has gotten boring, how about we do other people and we can watch"...somehow brings new meaning to date night huh? 

Of course maybe some people might say hey at least your partner is thoughtful allowing you to have another sexual partner since they are. At least they aren't being selfish (I'm being sarcastic here...). Having been cheated on and feeling as I do now, why would I subject myself to WATCHING that? Actually right after we reconciled my husband said he was curious about this...didn't suggest we try it but snooping on his computer (don't call me names, I earned this right when he abused my trust) I found he had joined a swingers site. I asked him about it and he lied to me and said he didn't it was spam. Spam doesn't usually address you by name..I don't think an clearly he had at least entered his information in to the site. 

We have some friends who decided it would be fun to have a threesome (one husband got left out, no one clued him in). It ruined that couples' marriage (the one with the husband not included) and the other couple is still together but its just not the same. She brings it up all the time and blames him because it was his idea. She participated, I know but she resents him all the same.


----------



## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

well I think this site is hardly a good "straw test" for swingers. I mean this is a marriage site for people are having issues in their relationships.

Thre are many swinger clubs and resorts out there there is a lifestyle, most of them are in good solid relationships. 

but again, it's not for everyone. But I respect those who are in the lifestyle, that is their choice.

I chose not to be in one, because that is mine and my wife's choice, and I am sure they respect our choice.

I prefer not to label them


----------



## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

Also after reading both people who had failed "swinger" relationships" I find it hard to believe they did not see this becomming, or a really stupid attempt to save a really broken relationship.

Ashammed was/is in the military and his wife asked to "spice it up" which he mis-understtod for a swinger relationship, instead of maybe role play or other forms of spicing things up.....She ended up in an affair...because he was not there.

retod...what can I say, he thought he and his wife could be BEST friends with another guy/couple and that his wife would not get emotionally attached.

How many marriages end with friends having affairs with the others spouse?? A TON!!

I feel bad for these two guys they made some poor decisions and now have to live with the consequences.

It wasn't due to swinging, that was just a part of the symptom, it was much deeper and already broken.

Their wives were looking for something "more" and they found it with a new guy.


----------



## AZMOMOFTWO (Jun 30, 2008)

sunflower said:


> I know it was rude what I said but seriously thats sick ans what the crap is this world coming to They throw a fit over the gays getting married but its ok to swing BS NASTY. I could never EVER see my H with another it would kill me I just think its wrong.


Come to think of it, why do we think we have to be politically correct on this issue. Not my thing, don't want to see it, don't want to hear about it. I pretty much agree with Sunflower.


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

Ya its just crazy how people are like OH OH a marriage is for a man and a women? OK A man and a women that sacred bs sacred enouph to be doing that????? Might as well let same sex marriage happen. They might keep it in the marriage. Just a thought.


----------



## LScribbens (Apr 26, 2009)

kirkster5 said:


> Lscribb-
> 
> While I can not discount your statements in certain circumstances the reality is most marriages don't survive after an affair, either agreed upon or not.


You are correct, most marriage don't survive after an affair, but it isn't just the affair. Things were not "right" in the marriage to begin with and that is what led to one of them (or both of them) having an affair. But it's not the sex of the affair that breaks them up, it's pain from the betrayal and dishonesty that does it.



> its not about women being weak and in need of protection.


 And I definitely don't think they are. In fact my whole point is that women are not weak and in need of protection.



> It is scientific fact that when a human female is making love a bonding hormone called oxytocin is released. That's not to say that the ability to ignore its signals is not possible it just leads to a higher possibility of bonding with the person they are having sex with than if there was no sex involved.


This is correct, but that release of oxytocin does not make a woman fall out of love with her husband and into love with her swing partner. It just means she feels a connection to her lover at that moment. If she does leave her husband for her swinging partner it is because she already no longer felt love for her husband due to any number of relationship issues that they both created together and her swinging partner is just a convenient escape from a marriage she wants out of to begin with. The same would happen with a man she was having an affair with. This is the reason that more second marriages fail than first marriages, because a person is just running away from one relationship into another because it's a convenient way out.



> Your assumption that if everything is right in your marriage and you both agree to "swing" that all will be well is just not borne out with the statistics.


 Actually it is. Again, when a couple breaks-up after swinging it wasn't the swinging that did it, there were other problems in the relationship. But, of course swinging gets blamed for it because it is easier to blame the demise of your marriage on other things and other people than it is to admit how your own shortcomings in the relationship is what did it in. Again, it's why more second marriages fail than first, the problem hasn't been solved, the people in the marriage still aren't emotionally healthy people, and all they are doing is shifting the same issues into a new environment.

As far as statistics, in 2000 a study of swingers that was done by the Sociology Department at Bellermine University and published in The Electronic Journal of Human Sexuality found that the average swinger in the study had been married 10.5 years and had been swinging for more than 5 years. From the study:


> _Measures of Marital and General Life Satisfaction_
> 
> How happy are the marriages of swingers? Table 14 compares how swingers and the G.S.S. (General Social Survey) sample of married persons rated the happiness of their marriages. Significant differences were found between the two groups, with swingers showing higher levels of happiness than married couples in the general population.
> 
> Among swingers, is there a relationship between swinging and marital happiness? Two questions on the survey – one which asked about their relationships before swinging and the other about them after swinging – are cross-tabulated in Table 15. As the data shows, 62.6% of swingers found that swinging improved their marriages/relationships, 35.6% said their relationships stayed about the same, and only 1.7% said they became less happy. Even among those who said their marriages were "Very Happy" prior to swinging nearly half (49.7%) said they became happier. Among those with the most unhappy marriages 90.4% said their relationship became happier after swinging. It appears that, at least among the sample of swingers used in this research, swinging tends to improve the perceived quality of the couples' marriages regardless of how satisfying it was before swinging.


It's easy for a marriage counselor to say "Every couple I've ever counseled who tried swinging ended-up divorced" and that would be a true statement for the counselor, but was it swinging or the reason that particular couple tried swinging, such as using is as a last ditch effort to save their marriage because they mistakenly thought that having sex with others when they weren't even having sex with each other would fix everything.

We've seen several couples that were in the lifestyle get divorced, and none of them was because of swinging. Three couples were trying to "fix" their marriages by having sex with other people. Another couple was a second marriage and like so many second marriages when kids from the first marriage are brought in, they were having huge problems blending together the family. In all of the cases swinging was not the cause of their break-up. They were using it as a bandaid on a gaping wound they had created in their relationship in the past.

This is why I believe that swinging is not the cause of a break-up, the people in the relationship are. Swinging just gets the blame from them (and of course what they tell their marriage counselor, friends, neighbors, coworkers, etc.) because it's easier to blame something else than to take responsibility for their own actions that led to the divorce.


----------



## LScribbens (Apr 26, 2009)

reidqa01 said:


> Kirk,
> 
> 100% incorrect, many swingers do not know the other people. They meet party, sex and say goodbye, no contact beyond the club.


This is true of swinging of the 70's or the "swinging" you see in porn, but it's not reality today. Most couples do meet each other and actually go on several "dates" as couple and get to know each other before they decided to get naked with them. Most couples have a "friends first" approach to sharing.


----------



## LScribbens (Apr 26, 2009)

Initfortheduration said:


> By all means LScribbens, share your enlightenment with "Ashamed" and "Retodd" I' am sure all they need to do is explain it like that to their wives, and everything will be just fine.


It won't be "fine". There are much bigger issues at work in their relationship than swinging. For them swinging is a symptom of a much larger problem. They were using having sex with others to fill what was missing in their relationship. It won't work.


----------



## LScribbens (Apr 26, 2009)

AZMOMOFTWO said:


> We have some friends who decided it would be fun to have a threesome (one husband got left out, no one clued him in). It ruined that couples' marriage (the one with the husband not included) and the other couple is still together but its just not the same. She brings it up all the time and blames him because it was his idea. She participated, I know but she resents him all the same.


This is a perfect example of how the problem isn't swinging, it's the people in the relationships.

In the case of the couple where the husband did it without his wife's knowledge: he was cheating on her. It wasn't swinging that broke them up, it was him deceiving and betraying his wife. He led her to believe that they were in a monogamous relationship and they weren't. She was lied to. She was deceived. She was betrayed. I would dare to venture this wasn't the first time he'd cheated on her either, though it might have been the only one he admitted to.

With the couple that had the threesome with him, it is obvious that this was not her idea, but that her husband coerced or manipulated her into it, and she went along with it even though she didn't want to, and now she resents him and hates herself for not being true to herself. Their relationship is probably like this in all matters, not just this one. The husband is probably an emotional bully and a manipulator in all matters in their relationship, and she is probably the "peace keeper" who doesn't stand her ground and say "no" just to keep peace and harmony in the home.

The threesome isn't the root of the problem, it's just the club they used to beat themselves on the head with.


----------



## LScribbens (Apr 26, 2009)

sunflower said:


> Ya and for all you SWINGERS out there keep it to YOURSELF if you want that dont be Married K. Or find a hooker you little nasties! keep it in your pants and in your own marriage. SERIOUSLY!


Believe me, nobody will be hitting on you, so no worries. 



sunflower said:


> I know it was rude what I said but seriously thats sick ans what the crap is this world coming to They throw a fit over the gays getting married but its ok to swing BS NASTY. I could never EVER see my H with another it would kill me I just think its wrong.


If it isn't for you, that's fine. That's okay. Nobody says you have to have an open relationship. But just because it's not for you doesn't mean it's not right for everyone. There are 6 billion people on this rock floating in space, and every one of them is different. The problem comes in when people start to impose their beliefs and way of life on everyone else because they feel that "if it's right for me it should be right for everyone". Just because you're happy living your life your way doesn't mean everyone else would be; just like their life wouldn't make you happy either. It's your life, not theirs. What turns you on sexually may do nothing for someone else. Just because the idea of your spouse having sex with someone else doesn't turn you on doesn't mean that it doesn't turn on someone else. Neither way is "right" or "wrong", each is just right for that particular individual.

Remember, there are many roads to happiness and fulfillment. Just because someone isn't on your's doesn't mean they are lost.


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

LScribbens said:


> There are 6 billion people on this rock floating in space, and every one of them is different. The problem comes in when people start to impose their beliefs and way of life on everyone else because they feel that "if it's right for me it should be right for everyone". Just because you're happy living your life your way doesn't mean everyone else would be; just like their life wouldn't make you happy either. It's your life, not theirs. What turns you on sexually may do nothing for someone else. Just because the idea of your spouse having sex with someone else doesn't turn you on doesn't mean that it doesn't turn on someone else. Neither way is "right" or "wrong", each is just right for that particular individual.


i felt compelled to respond scribbens, sorry, don't wanna piss you off with my spirituality, but i risk that every time i do this:
this "rock floating in space" as you refer to it, isn't an accident. the same creator who put it here had a blueprint for marriage. it did not include swinging, best as i can tell. and there IS a "right and wrong" in this instance. there are absolutes in marriage.



LScribbens said:


> Remember, there are many roads to happiness and fulfillment. Just because someone isn't on your's doesn't mean they are lost.


again, not to get too spiritual or whatever, but there are actually FEW "roads to happiness and fulfillment"...


----------



## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

Void, I feel to respond, I find LScribbens on the money here.



> The problem comes in when people start to impose their beliefs and way of life on everyone else because they feel that "if it's right for me it should be right for everyone". Just because you're happy living your life your way doesn't mean everyone else would be; just like their life wouldn't make you happy either. It's your life, not theirs.


You have YOUR beliefs, he has his....which is why this is a great country, you are allowed to have your opinion and express it without any recourse.

If you were a Roman Catholic or Baptist in China, Iran, North Korea....you may not be so lucky.

People just have to learn to respect other people's lives and their beliefs and morality. As long as they conform to the laws of the country you should not worry about their lifestyles or their beliefs, just take care of your own.

really, what do you care if Jow swinger is banging Jane swinger as Ted swinger is with Sarah swinger...who cares? their choice to live that way......so let them. It has little to no effect on you or your life.


----------



## martino (May 12, 2008)

If a couple chooses to do this they have to be extremely close and connected and secure with their devotion to each other. (I know you are laughing) and they also have to be pretty damn sexual in nature.


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

GAsoccerman said:


> Void, I feel to respond, I find LScribbens on the money here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ok soccerman. just understand there ARE absolutes in this life. "who cares?" is an interesting question when faced with that thought because the next question is "what are the ramifications." "their choice to live that way" DOES come with a price.


----------



## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

"The Golden Rule" is the only absolute that seems to work most of the time. Everything else comes down to me imposing my belief system on you or you on me. The result is a lot of negativity and hate which does not make for a better world. Lead by example and if your successful other's will see it and follow. Pretty basic stuff.


----------



## AZMOMOFTWO (Jun 30, 2008)

Its interesting those who support this lifestyle you wonder why they are on this site to begin with? I have found that those who are here are seeking to receive help and advice to either build a stronger relationship or repair a broken one OR they are here to give advice. I'm not seeing those swinging doing the giving of advice but rather seeking...approval?....of others. So perhaps you already know this will severely damage your relationship in one way or another. Just something to consider. I am not making a judgement here I am just saying that once you cross that line, and hurt the other you can't turn back time. I don't want to see you posting here later saying "if only we didn't..." Because I play that game too often myself and it changes nothing!


----------



## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

AZMOMOFTWO said:


> Its interesting those who support this lifestyle you wonder why they are on this site to begin with? I have found that those who are here are seeking to receive help and advice to either build a stronger relationship or repair a broken one OR they are here to give advice. I'm not seeing those swinging doing the giving of advice but rather seeking...approval?....of others. So perhaps you already know this will severely damage your relationship in one way or another. Just something to consider.


Reading your post makes me think you didnt bother to read this thread at all. Rather you just hopped up on your soap box to give your opinion. The thread was started by someone who blasted the idea of swinging not by someone who was seeking approval for it. You seem to have this idea that people involved in swinging somehow value their marriages less then people who don't. You also seem to value those marriages less. I am not a swinger but can accept and appreciate the decisions that others make without some narrow judgement of how I've decided people should live. You'd be better off simply saying that you dont understand it and that you don't think its something for you. When the swingers appear on this site and start putting down everyone who doesnt swing then lets talk.


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Shoto1984 said:


> "The Golden Rule" is the only absolute that seems to work most of the time. Everything else comes down to me imposing my belief system on you or you on me. The result is a lot of negativity and hate which does not make for a better world. Lead by example and if your successful other's will see it and follow. Pretty basic stuff.


absolutes are everywhere. "the golden rule" is not an absolute. study absolutes.

hey, i'm not the one who is going to be doing the judging on this "lifestyle." thanks to swingers for negatively affecting society's more's and value system.


----------



## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

> hey, i'm not the one who is going to be doing the judging


sounds like you already have.

What is worse the swinger or the adulter? If a couple is happy they should be able to live their lives as they wish, without others judging.

Most couples split for many reasons. But I guess if it makes you feel better....then it's the swingers fault this world is damned.


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

GAsoccerman said:


> sounds like you already have.
> 
> What is worse the swinger or the adulter? If a couple is happy they should be able to live their lives as they wish, without others judging.
> 
> Most couples split for many reasons. But I guess if it makes you feel better....then it's the swingers fault this world is damned.


as i suspected, someone would try to create an absolute. "it's the swingers fault this world is damned."

a) this world is NOT damned.
b) i did not say it was the swingers fault.

insert any other destructive behavior. drugs, alcohol, etc. in place of swinging. drugs...they make the user feel good, alcohol...i suppose the same case could be made...you're a smart guy...you know where i'm going.


----------



## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

voivod said:


> absolutes are everywhere. "the golden rule" is not an absolute. study absolutes.
> 
> hey, i'm not the one who is going to be doing the judging on this "lifestyle." thanks to swingers for negatively affecting society's more's and value system.


Absolutes are what I decide they are as they are for you what you decide they are. You say the swingers have negatively affected society's more's and value system and I say the zealots have.


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Shoto1984 said:


> Absolutes are what I decide they are as they are for you what you decide they are. You say the swingers have negatively affected society's more's and value system and I say the zealots have.


who are these "zealots" you speak of?


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

OH wow I really think that I am so stumped with you LSCRIBBENS 

whatever floats your boat!!!!! good luck!


----------



## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

voivod said:


> who are these "zealots" you speak of?


For the purposes of this discussion, the zealots are the people who would impose their absolutes on everyone else.


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Shoto1984 said:


> For the purposes of this discussion, the zealots are the people who would impose their absolutes on everyone else.


i don't determine absolutes. neither do you. they either are or they aren't.


----------



## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

voivod said:


> i don't determine absolutes. neither do you. they either are or they aren't.


Oh, but I do, and you do too whether or not you are willing to see it. The only absolutes that we as individuals don't create are those we observe in nature. (gravity, etc.)

We will have to agree to disagree.....are you able?


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Shoto1984 said:


> Oh, but I do, and you do too whether or not you are willing to see it. The only absolutes that we as individuals don't create are those we observe in nature. (gravity, etc.)
> 
> We will have to agree to disagree.....are you able?


okay, cuz i'm too tired to do a written dissertation on absolutes.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Can't we all just get it on?


----------



## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

voivod said:


> okay, cuz i'm too tired to do a written dissertation on absolutes.


I could write your dissertation because I understand your position.......though I dont agree with it. But why beat a dead horse when there are live one's to ride???


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Shoto1984 said:


> I could write your dissertation because I understand your position.......though I dont agree with it. But why beat a dead horse when there are live one's to ride???


absolutes are far from a dead horse.


----------



## retodd (Apr 19, 2009)

I think i was one of the guys infortheduration was talking about. I want to say that if anyone is thinking of doing this to please change ur mind. I made this misstake and now my wife and i are getting a divorce cause she wont stop doing this guy. I say again please dont ruin ur marriage for this lifestyle. Like inforthefuration said that there was a select few that actually make. There are only a select few that do make it everyone else fails. good luck and infortheduration thanks for all the advice. It has helped me through this tough time. 

thanks.


----------



## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

Retodd, how to explain this to you....

It's not the swinging that got you into this mess 

You two should have never been swingers to begin with, you did not have the core values they have.

you both had other issues and you thought swinging could cure those issues....when all it did was give her a "out"

there is a saying, "fools and their money will soon be seperated!"


Same goes for relationships.


----------



## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

voivod said:


> absolutes are far from a dead horse.


We could debate that too, but my reference was to our current debate.


----------



## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Lets end the moral absolute argument. Shoto. You say there are no moral absolutes, not physical, like gravity, but moral. Ok heres is one. A forty year old man rapes an murders a 5 year old girl (happens all the time). Is that wrong? If there are no moral absolutes, argue his position for him being created that way, and that since there are no moral absolutes, there is nothing wrong with him doing that to her...............We're ready.


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Initfortheduration said:


> Lets end the moral absolute argument. Shoto. You say there are no moral absolutes, not physical, like gravity, but moral. Ok heres is one. A forty year old man rapes an murders a 5 year old girl (happens all the time). Is that wrong? If there are no moral absolutes, argue his position for him being created that way, and that since there are no moral absolutes, there is nothing wrong with him doing that to her...............We're ready.


hey- to use the "anti-zealots" argument...

if it makes him feel good....

here comes the free will side of the debate...


----------



## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

Initfortheduration said:


> Lets end the moral absolute argument. Shoto. You say there are no moral absolutes, not physical, like gravity, but moral. Ok heres is one. A forty year old man rapes an murders a 5 year old girl (happens all the time). Is that wrong?


Oh no, that's too easy. Lets do it this way......... A forty year old government agent rapes and murders a 5 year old girl in front of her father attempting to get information about a known imminent plot to explode a nuclear bomb in New York City. Within a few hours a few hundred thousand will be killed and as many as 4 million will be killed over the following few months. Is that wrong? :scratchhead:


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Shoto1984 said:


> Oh no, that's too easy. Lets do it this way......... A forty year old government agent rapes and murders a 5 year old girl in front of her father attempting to get information about a known imminent plot to explode a nuclear bomb in New York City. Within a few hours a few hundred thousand will be killed and as many as 4 million will be killed over the following few months. Is that wrong? :scratchhead:


no..THAT'S too easy...how 'bout this:

you're married, vows witnessed by God (can't help that...that's ONE absolute)...and you decide you want to **** someone other than your spouse...

so you introduce the idea of swinging (an excuse for adultery) and pursue your desires...

you meet another person who would like sex too...no matter what the boundary issues...he ends up sticking it in your wife...

is that infidelity or not? is indidelity wrong?:scratchhead:


----------



## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

OK, how about this:

You believe your version of God and that your version of your God's teachings are absolute (a good assumption I think). Yet to this day there are places and cultures around the world that people are born into that will go through life not knowing of your God. These people may not be able to enter the kingdom of heaven upon their death due to their ignorance of your God. Yet, there you sit behind your computer hour after hour while people are dying and souls are potentially being lost...... Is that wrong 

Listen we both know this drill. We both knew where this was going several posts ago. I'm not going to convince you and you're not going to convince me. Lets shake and let this one fade into bandwidth oblivion


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Shoto1984 said:


> OK, how about this:
> 
> You believe your version of God and that your version of your God's teachings are absolute (a good assumption I think). Yet to this day there are places and cultures around the world that people are born into that will go through life not knowing of your God. These people may not be able to enter the kingdom of heaven upon their death due to their ignorance of your God. Yet, there you sit behind your computer hour after hour while people are dying and souls are potentially being lost...... Is that wrong
> 
> Listen we both know this drill. We both knew where this was going several posts ago. I'm not going to convince you and you're not going to convince me. Lets shake and let this one fade into bandwidth oblivion



agreed shoto...i'd just like someone to benefit from understanding the debate. maybe there wouldn't be so many lost souls. have an absolutely great day.


----------



## AZMOMOFTWO (Jun 30, 2008)

Shoto1984 said:


> Reading your post makes me think you didnt bother to read this thread at all. Rather you just hopped up on your soap box to give your opinion. The thread was started by someone who blasted the idea of swinging not by someone who was seeking approval for it. You seem to have this idea that people involved in swinging somehow value their marriages less then people who don't. You also seem to value those marriages less. I am not a swinger but can accept and appreciate the decisions that others make without some narrow judgement of how I've decided people should live. You'd be better off simply saying that you dont understand it and that you don't think its something for you. When the swingers appear on this site and start putting down everyone who doesnt swing then lets talk.


Wow so I guess you are saying you are entitled to YOUR opinion but I am not entitled to mine... I guess its YOU who failed to read because I was not blasting the original poster, not blasting anyone at all but saying that the very reason people are here is because they need help/advice or have it to give. So if you have to ask "will this hurt my marriage" then the answer is probably it will. If you promised to love, honor, and be faithful there was no exception included in those vows for swinging so long as my spouse approves. So if a person should vow to be faithful and participates in swinging its not me that values that marriage less, its the person breaking the marriage vows. 

I find your post to be pretty rude too for no reason at all. While my post was my opinion it was directed at no one person but at swinging, you turned it personal, so maybe you should get off your soap box and remember people are entitled to their opinions. 

Fortunately, there are so many people on here that are very giving and respectful its why I come here so often but after you post signing off for tonight, can't take it.


----------



## AZMOMOFTWO (Jun 30, 2008)

Shoto1984 said:


> Oh no, that's too easy. Lets do it this way......... A forty year old government agent rapes and murders a 5 year old girl in front of her father attempting to get information about a known imminent plot to explode a nuclear bomb in New York City. Within a few hours a few hundred thousand will be killed and as many as 4 million will be killed over the following few months. Is that wrong? :scratchhead:


After reading all these posts, seems SHOTO was only trying to get people going, seemed to attack everyone. Sorry I even read his response because clearly they are targeted only to get people mad.


----------



## They Call Me Smooth (May 5, 2009)

Well I'll try to stay on the original topic as I don't want to get into a right or wrong debate over the internet.

As a man who has had multiple threesomes (MMF & FFM) I can tell you it does work. But to be perfectly honest, it wasn't nearly what I was expecting. In fact the best sex I ever had was one on one. With that said I would also suggest not doing it. It's a can of worms you could open and the reward isn't really worth it.


----------



## Justice44 (Apr 5, 2010)

sunflower said:


> Ya and for all you SWINGERS out there keep it to YOURSELF if you want that dont be Married K. Or find a hooker you little nasties! keep it in your pants and in your own marriage. SERIOUSLY!


Well sunflower, suppose swingers wanted to be a movie actors/actresses and they became famous. How could they just keep it themselves with the gossip media culture that we have?


----------



## Justice44 (Apr 5, 2010)

voivod said:


> agreed shoto...i'd just like someone to benefit from understanding the debate. maybe there wouldn't be so many lost souls. have an absolutely great day.


But you offer no greater understanding of your point voviod, you just simply say it is rule which was created. The notion that you attach God to this rule, does not make it valid. I could say it is a rule that everyone should call you a jerk and this rule came from God. The bottom line is that a swinger clearly showed you evidence that swingers divorce less than traditional couples and may be happier in their relationships than traditional couples. Yet, the only thing you can tell us repeatedly is that this is a divine axiom.


----------



## Justice44 (Apr 5, 2010)

GAsoccerman said:


> Retodd, how to explain this to you....
> 
> It's not the swinging that got you into this mess
> 
> ...


Great point. It is refreshing that some people have the ability to analyze beyond simple themes. Monogamous couples who have ****ty marriages will not be saved by swinging. Yet these are the couples I keep hearing about on the news. Why? Most of the research I have found is that the divorce rate among swingers is lower than traditional marriages.


----------



## Justice44 (Apr 5, 2010)

sunflower said:


> OH wow I really think that I am so stumped with you LSCRIBBENS
> 
> whatever floats your boat!!!!! good luck!


I think what he is saying makes perfect sense. What do you not understand? I find that strange!


----------



## Justice44 (Apr 5, 2010)

voivod said:


> ok soccerman. just understand there ARE absolutes in this life. "who cares?" is an interesting question when faced with that thought because the next question is "what are the ramifications." "their choice to live that way" DOES come with a price.


Voviod, I believe that there are moral absolutes in life. Here are some of them:

1. Do not insult one's natural appearance.
2. Lack arrogance.
3. Do not steal.
4. Avoid being rude.


I could list more but I don't believe abstinence outside of marriage is a moral absolute. So thanks for informing us of this reality but we just have to agree to disagree.


----------



## vicouple (Sep 25, 2014)

Interesting post. My wife an I, who have been married for 15 years (in our first marriage), have been through some rough spots around the 8 year mark like most, but have generally been in a really good state for some time. We are deeply in love and have had a great sex life for the last few years. There was some infidelity around the 8 year mark, but we overcame that and have been in a really good place for about 5 years or so. 

A year ago she approached me about considering swinging. We did a lot of research and felt like we would set some ground rules and approach it carefully. Initially my rule was to approach it purely as an extension of our bedroom play, like adding sextoys or role playing or something. In other words, this should be about us through and through, not about relationships with others. 

Through the experiences, I personally found I was not at all turned on by seeing some other dude sleeping with my wife and was generally turned off by women who were very active in the lifestyle (i.e. girls that liked to be gang banged etc). This left us in this odd state where we were swinging, but not really liking the purely physical side of swinging. My wife started being interested in a couple that was into Poly. I went along at first, but really wasn't into the couple and felt like I was taking one for the team. 

Fast forward 5 months, we now no longer see anyone else, my wife is 'in love' with both the man and the woman. I've told her since day one that I don't enjoy being with them, but she has fallen for these guys. 

Yesterday, I told her where I was at. I told her to me, if we are to continue 'swinging' it needs to be pure friends with benefits and only be linked to us as a couple, not separate love affairs. I also told her that I love her and won't make her do one thing or the other. The choice is hers. She knows that it hurts me to see her 'in love' with other people. While I know me opening the door to swinging essentially was the cause of this, she has made the choice to pursue this regardless of how I feel. I don't want to leave her or quit on our marriage, but I feel like what was special about our marriage is dieing away. 

The ultimatum approach of making her choose is not really her choosing at that point. I want her to choose to love me and me alone because she wants to. That would be genuine love. Forcing her to would not. Not really sure what to do other than to let her continue and hope that I don't lose my desire for her. In my high school and college years when my girlfriend broke up with me and then wanted me back I remember just not having those feelings anymore; kind of like she broke my heart and now she's lost that devoted love I had had for her. I am afraid that may be what's happening here. 

Anyways, I have no real people to talk to so I thought I'd post here. I know some would say 'it'll be fine' and some would say 'make her choose'. To the 'it'll be fine' people I'd say, I haven't seen a single marriage relationship that is active in the lifestyle yet that really looks healthy. Of the ones I've met they're either disfunctional or are divorcees that have 'ok' relationships. To the 'make her choose' people, I'd say that's not real love if I force her. Love needs to be free and she's not freely choosing just me.


----------



## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

This thread is more than three years old. Please open a new discussion instead of bumping up old threads.


----------

