# Help initiating sex



## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

So...wondering if this group can give me some help on some ideas for initiating sex. I am the HD partner, and years of a lot of rejection left me a bit hesitant to initiate, even though I am the higher drive partner. When I do, it often comes off with either a lack of confidence, or too blunt. As some progress has happened in my marriage in the last couple years, my wife has shared that my approach is often either lacking confidence (which is not sexy), or does not offer something that is so appealing that it will take her from "not really thinking about sex" to "ok...that might be fun". 

I agree with her, and know that I used to be pretty creative, but enough rejection made me feel awkward about putting myself out there. I am very confident in every other area of my life, but somewhat timid about initiating sex, and timid is not sexy.

Now, I often am either direct (which sometimes is ok for her), or I just sit and wait for her to initiate, which is less often than I would like, by far. I know every woman is different, on how they like to be approached about sex, and what invitations work and which do not, but wondering if other of you HD partners found the act of initiating gets complicated, after a lot of rejection. It is self defeating, because if I initiated more often, in an appealing way, I would probably get more sex and better sex, but I honestly dont know where to start. It seems (in my head), that my LD wife will not necessarily get very intrigued by something simple, and it takes something fairly erotic to get her wheels turning, but if I am too blatant or blunt, and she is not yet "horny", it can be a turn off. 

Have any of you guys lost your creativity or had it stunted, due to so much rejection?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Working with a Sex Therapist, it was suggested that we schedule days we will have sex. It started out at Wednesday and Saturday. It is now either Wednesday or Thursday and Saturday or Sunday. The therapist suggested and it is also the suggestion of Schnarch in Intimacy and Desire that the LD partner be in charge of initiating sex. If my wife forgets (hard to imagine) I will suggest that I would like to have sex with her so that I can feel emotionally close to her.

Good luck


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Go to Touch of Flavor and check out their Desire Chart. That provides a visual for who feels up to what. Also, and this could end up going into areas you'd rather not think about, there are interest check lists. I use them quite often with BDSM play, so the ones I have are quite extensive. But even so, aside from learning what each other enjoy or are curious about, you might discover things you didn't realize existed to perk your interest. You will also many WTF activities.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> Working with a Sex Therapist, it was suggested that we schedule days we will have sex. It started out at Wednesday and Saturday. It is now either Wednesday or Thursday and Saturday or Sunday. The therapist suggested and it is also the suggestion of Schnarch in Intimacy and Desire that the LD partner be in charge of initiating sex. If my wife forgets (hard to imagine) I will suggest that I would like to have sex with her so that I can feel emotionally close to her.
> 
> Good luck


We did read all the Schnarch books, based on advise from counselor, many years ago. Helped for while, but they we both reverted back to our "old ways". The scheduling thing is not great for either my wife or I. We did try once, but felt she was not really into it, when it was just because the calendar said it was our sex day...


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## rinnylong (Mar 10, 2020)

Would like to know how men like to see initiation from their partners. Im the more sexual person - would like to have sex a few times a week. He wants to have it once or twice a year. Im the one that needs to initiate everything. Men can be a little dense sometimes - so me just laying in bed with a nightgown on - isnt a big signal. Any ideas? I have tried almost everything I can think of.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

rinnylong said:


> Would like to know how men like to see initiation from their partners. Im the more sexual person - would like to have sex a few times a week. He wants to have it once or twice a year. Im the one that needs to initiate everything. Men can be a little dense sometimes - so me just laying in bed with a nightgown on - isnt a big signal. Any ideas? I have tried almost everything I can think of.


maybe skip the nightgown, go full nude, and don't be shy about telling him exactly what you want. You can also just start touching yourself, and ask him to help you finish


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

rinnylong said:


> Would like to know how men like to see initiation from their partners. Im the more sexual person - would like to have sex a few times a week. He wants to have it once or twice a year. Im the one that needs to initiate everything. Men can be a little dense sometimes - so me just laying in bed with a nightgown on - isnt a big signal. Any ideas? I have tried almost everything I can think of.


Perhaps start you own thread so as not to derail this poster's thread.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Married_in_michigan said:


> So...wondering if this group can give me some help on some ideas for initiating sex. I am the HD partner, and years of a lot of rejection left me a bit hesitant to initiate, even though I am the higher drive partner. When I do, it often comes off with either a lack of confidence, or too blunt. As some progress has happened in my marriage in the last couple years, my wife has shared that my approach is often either lacking confidence (which is not sexy), or does not offer something that is so appealing that it will take her from "not really thinking about sex" to "ok...that might be fun".
> 
> I agree with her, and know that I used to be pretty creative, but enough rejection made me feel awkward about putting myself out there. I am very confident in every other area of my life, but somewhat timid about initiating sex, and timid is not sexy.
> 
> ...


If she's just saying "you didn't do the getting started with sex intro right" without herself, right then, saying "ok, let's start this way" each time, then she's just blowing you off, using her choice excuse of the day, to say no.

If this continues she'll have you dancing like a marionette trying to find "her right" combination, which if course failing to do so is always your fault she doesn't feel like it.

Which is hogwash.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Married_in_michigan said:


> So...wondering if this group can give me some help on some ideas for initiating sex. I am the HD partner, and years of a lot of rejection left me a bit hesitant to initiate, even though I am the higher drive partner. When I do, it often comes off with either a lack of confidence, or too blunt. As some progress has happened in my marriage in the last couple years, my wife has shared that my approach is often either lacking confidence (which is not sexy), or does not offer something that is so appealing that it will take her from "not really thinking about sex" to "ok...that might be fun".
> 
> I agree with her, and know that I used to be pretty creative, but enough rejection made me feel awkward about putting myself out there. I am very confident in every other area of my life, but somewhat timid about initiating sex, and timid is not sexy.
> 
> ...


It really is a use it or lose it situation. Yes, I've found that the longer we go without, the more difficult it is to get things going again. To the point where as the higher drive spouse I don't even really want to anymore.

It's good that you're seeing progress in your marriage, which would seem to offer some hope. I'd suggest if the issue is getting her from not thinking about sex to possibly considering it, the solution may be to start planting the idea earlier in the day by flirting with her well before you intend to actually follow through--just to get it on her radar and let her process it in her mind.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

The observation on whether she's changed, and wants to be there for you on this, is that she'll not use your approaches as "you didn't get there this time, maybe next time" as excuses.

She shouldn't, but might be still, putting all her rejections as your fault.

If she continues that, she hasn't gotten on board so far, just lip service.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

It seems, from my observations, that my wife, being the LD partner and not having much spontaneous desire, needs something fairly intriguing to get her interested and that my approach is not often doing that. I actually do not disagree, but I feel frustrated, that I did put in a lot of effort and creativity for many years, still go rejected, and now a bit gun shy to put myself out there. She does offer suggestions, or says "you are the high drive person...you think of creative ways", but it never seems that simple. Sometimes, it really seems so based on her hormonal state, that what I do or do not do, is not really a factor. She wants it to be my issue, and lack of creativity on initiating, but based on years of attempts, I think she is either already open to the idea or not, and nothing I do will change that. I might take away her interest by being an ass or something, but if she has no current interest, nothing I do will just suddenly change that, so I go back to waiting for her to initiate, and that happens much less often. 

I feel that all the past rejection, has taken away my sexual self confidence.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

what's your success rate been recently? above or below 50%?


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

Fozzy said:


> what's your success rate been recently? above or below 50%?


depends on your definition of success. My wife will more often than not be willing to "service me", if I were to ask, but I dont have much interest in that, so my "measure" is times I initiate, and have an INTERESTED partner...which would push the percentage down to maybe 20%.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

Married_in_michigan said:


> depends on your definition of success. My wife will more often than not be willing to "service me", if I were to ask, but I dont have much interest in that, so my "measure" is times I initiate, and have an INTERESTED partner...which would push the percentage down to maybe 20%.


again though......I really do think a lot is in my approach.....


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Married_in_michigan said:


> It seems, from my observations, that my wife, being the LD partner and not having much spontaneous desire, needs something fairly intriguing to get her interested and that my approach is not often doing that. I actually do not disagree, but I feel frustrated, that I did put in a lot of effort and creativity for many years, still go rejected, and now a bit gun shy to put myself out there. She does offer suggestions, or says "you are the high drive person...you think of creative ways", but it never seems that simple. Sometimes, it really seems so based on her hormonal state, that what I do or do not do, is not really a factor. She wants it to be my issue, and lack of creativity on initiating, but based on years of attempts, I think she is either already open to the idea or not, and nothing I do will change that. I might take away her interest by being an ass or something, but if she has no current interest, nothing I do will just suddenly change that, so I go back to waiting for her to initiate, and that happens much less often.
> 
> I feel that all the past rejection, has taken away my sexual self confidence.



OP, you're not getting the point being shared to you, to realize she's still gaming you with these objections. 

Her rejecting you isn't your fault. She's purposefully telling you no, and will have the same no, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO when initiating. 

You've got to realize, understand, acknowledge, and respond from that understanding/position at some point. 

She either acts conducive, ie helpful to having a sexual encounter or she doesn't. 

There's no accepting by you of her blaming you for HER "no".

Each of your replies keep reinforcing that you believe her every time she says it's your fault she says no.

Kindly, why is that?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Married_in_michigan said:


> again though......I really do think a lot is in my approach.....


And here we go again. 

Maybe a hard knock will get your attention. 
Just kidding, but c'mon man.

She's playing you, because she's not made her decision to try and improve her sex life with you.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> OP, you're not getting the point being shared to you, to realize she's still gaming you with these objections.
> 
> Her rejecting you isn't your fault. She's purposefully telling you no, and will have the same no, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO when initiating.
> 
> ...


I get where you are going with this, and I have read many of your posts/comments on TAM and know (and appreciate) your take on these matters. My "believing her", is because I can look from an outside view, and know that many of my advances are "timid" (not sure of a better word to use), and can see why any women may not find that very sexy or appealing. After a lot of rejection, I seem to now come off like a sad puppy dog, wanting attention from my owner. I even see myself sometimes coming off as desperate, and I agree (even without her ever saying anything), that desperate is far from appealing. I believe, regardless if it is my wife, or some new women, I need to retrain myself to approach this with confidence and offer something or appeal. My struggle, is that that is easy to say outside the moment, but seems a challenge when it comes time to do it. And,......its only in this area of my life. I have no issues with assertiveness or confidence in my work place, with social friends, raising my kids, etc. 

A marriage counselor told me a few year ago, that I was focusing on my partner being at the same level of sexual interest (in the moment) as I was, and if I sensed it otherwise, I backed off and said "never mind". There is some truth to that. For me, its not about just getting the act of sex (that is easy to do), but about sharing in the eroticism and sexual energy with your partner. This all plays into my initiation...if I try....get a half ass response, I take that as a rejection.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

So a few suggestions since you asked.
DO THESE EXPECTING you will get her into bed -- do NOT be timid.

When she is at the counter in the kitchen, hug her from behind, move her hair aside, and start kissing her neck. Then walk away. Go back and do that again in a few minutes, and then say "come with me" and go to your bed.

Give her a look, smile, reach out your hand and grab hers, then pull her into the bedroom. Undress her, throw her on the bed, and YOU give her oral sex.

Give her a nude massage with oils.

Take a shower with your wife and wash her hair for her.

For THIS one, Start with a foot rub while watching TV. BUT don't expect anything. Just start doing these types of touches and at somepoint MAYBE she will start responding to that. The point is to have some good touching, some physical intimacy that may NOT have to lead to sex, but just start her used to being touched.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Married_in_michigan said:


> *A marriage counselor told me a few year ago, that I was focusing on my partner being at the same level of sexual interest (in the moment) as I was, and if I sensed it otherwise, I backed off and said "never mind". There is some truth to that. For me, its not about just getting the act of sex (that is easy to do), but about sharing in the eroticism and sexual energy with your partner. This all plays into my initiation...if I try....get a half ass response, I take that as a rejection.*


Could it be that she's just bored with the same 'ol? What have you done to step up your game in bed to inspire her to be more tuned in? 

Maybe it's not the pitch but the follow-through.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

My bf a timid initiator as well and it’s annoying. Most of the times I didn’t even realize he was trying until we talked about it the next day. 

From a women’s point of view.... be confident, don’t over think our reactions/behavior, kiss kiss kiss, touch us over our clothes while you kiss us. This kissing and touching before your even in the bedroom is the best foreplay. And gently touch us, don’t grab and squeeze us during the foreplay time.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I was just thinking.... sometimes I watch porn to learn some new skills or to get I spited to try something different. I bet there are a lot of things on porn that you can watch and learn from.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Married_in_michigan said:


> I get where you are going with this, and I have read many of your posts/comments on TAM and know (and appreciate) your take on these matters. My "believing her", is because I can look from an outside view, and know that many of my advances are "timid" (not sure of a better word to use), and can see why any women may not find that very sexy or appealing. After a lot of rejection, I seem to now come off like a sad puppy dog, wanting attention from my owner. I even see myself sometimes coming off as desperate, and I agree (even without her ever saying anything), that desperate is far from appealing. I believe, regardless if it is my wife, or some new women, I need to retrain myself to approach this with confidence and offer something or appeal. My struggle, is that that is easy to say outside the moment, but seems a challenge when it comes time to do it. And,......its only in this area of my life. I have no issues with assertiveness or confidence in my work place, with social friends, raising my kids, etc.
> 
> A marriage counselor told me a few year ago, that I was focusing on my partner being at the same level of sexual interest (in the moment) as I was, and if I sensed it otherwise, I backed off and said "never mind". There is some truth to that. *For me, its not about just getting the act of sex (that is easy to do), but about sharing in the eroticism and sexual energy with your partner*. This all plays into my initiation...if I try....get a half ass response, I take that as a rejection.


You do know, that your position on the bolded above isn't a special circumstance or view by you, but every adult male wants the same most of the time.

So try a different approach, mentally, internally, for a few times, see if a jump start happens.

Say to yourself mentally when you want to have sex, that this time you're going to treat your W like you own sexual toy, and not care about whether she indicates she's just willing, or really wants too.

During the act you can be the good lover you think you are, and I'll go with your being acceptable or at least adept at this juncture

And start off knowing you're not going to care if you bang her like a wild man (excuse the crassness).

You can only change her mind during the act, not in trying to negotiate her to be in the mood before hand.

Know that all relationships have peaks and valleys in the earth moving during a sexual encounter, but KEEP PRACTICING.

To achieve good, steady sex, remember this:
*Perfection is the enemy of good. *

Keeping insisting *every* act or exchange regarding sexual interplay and the act itself *must and will be perfect* or you won't do it....
will only lead to sexual frustration and lack of good sex even having an opportunity to show up.

I get you, taking your whole relationship as a whole into consideration, that's good.


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

What jlg07 said.

Tease, give her glimps of passion and intent. dont expect anything just be a little bit dominant and randomly pull her aside for a passionate kiss even if shes not keen or a cuddle when shes cooking, it shows intent and that your not waiting for her to intiate. Plan what you want to do and just go with it. Just be like "come on its massage time" dont suggest or ask just do. if you manage the massage and it leads nowhere then fine, at least you had some hands on time. Once you do get an oportunity then DONT forget foreplay, make sure its all about her satisfaction first then yours. Dont show signs of defeat or giving up, be consistent and have a thick skin.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You do know, that your position on the bolded above isn't a special circumstance or view by you, but every adult male wants the same most of the time.
> 
> So try a different approach, mentally, internally, for a few times, see if a jump start happens.
> 
> ...


That is good advise...and I appreciate it. You addressed directly an area I struggle with. I am not worried about skill of the act itself, it is me stopping prior, when I dont feel the level of energy coming from her. I will take your advice, and go with it. It cannot hurt to try it that way


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Married in Michigan, 

Your situation and mine have so much in common its crazy. I have avoided posting on your thread because I don't think I have figured things out yet. .

Every word you write is something I can relate to. I think I'm a little further along the path than you are. You should know that things can and will get better, but you need to make just as many changes as your wife does. Just my 0.02 cents.

In your case, I would suggest you go back and read the posts from Ragnar Ragnasson. When I have done things like he suggests is when I have gotten the best results.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

leftfield said:


> Married in Michigan,
> 
> Your situation and mine have so much in common its crazy. I have avoided posting on your thread because I don't think I have figured things out yet. .
> 
> ...


I dont know if I should be happy to not be the only guy in the situation or not. lol. Glad to hear your journey has had some good progress. I do see some progress in mine, just not as quick as I would like, after it being 20+ years. I did agree, Ragnar Ragnasson provides good advise and seems well throughout and proved out...and I plan to take the advise and apply it. I have read his posts and comments for quite some time, and can tell he has some very good insight. My only past hesitation (which I will ignore for now), was that it seemed more about getting the sex to happen, versus her desire and interest. I could get laid every day (or close to it), but if that is mostly wife bent over the counter while I do my thing, then that does not fulfill me. My entire struggle is wanting a "vested partner". Either way, some of what he wrote resonated with me, and curious if it will have a different effect than I may have previously thought. 

It cannot hurt to try.....


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Without reading it all, I'll share an illustrative experience. We have a messed up relationship at present and a lot of things just aren't working. We have developed an ineffective pattern over the years of doing the thing that we would like to see done by the other. So I like verbal initiation, banter innuendo, just flat out asking for it. She doesn't like this she thinks it is nagging. (And at the level of participation lately, it most certainly is nagging) She likes touching and being touched. she will warm up to a 30 minute massage, almost every time. (and that is a story for another day) To me it's just an invitation to cuddle. To me cuddling is just a hearty **** tease. So here we are initiating away in all the wrong ways turning each other off instead of on. 

You would think that the simple solution would be to just remember to initiate in your partners way, but it just isn't happening. I can't keep my mouth shut, and she is too bashful to open hers. 

So the other morning I woke up and she was reading (normal behavior for being awake, see my collected writings. . . .) And being of a clear head I kept my mouth shut and reached over to touch her shoulder. And she kept reading. And my arm is getting numb. So i slid to a more comfortable position and touched more. And my arm got numb, and I needed to pee. So I took care of that. And she kept reading. (you would think this was rejection, but you would be wrong, even turning away isn't rejection) I came back to bed, disrobed, and positioned myself closer. I continued to touch getting into more and more intimate areas. finally she got interested enough to put down the kindle and make her own potty trip. And success! 

It just isn't simple.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Married_in_michigan said:


> I dont know if I should be happy to not be the only guy in the situation or not. lol. Glad to hear your journey has had some good progress. I do see some progress in mine, just not as quick as I would like, after it being 20+ years. I did agree, Ragnar Ragnasson provides good advise and seems well throughout and proved out...and I plan to take the advise and apply it. I have read his posts and comments for quite some time, and can tell he has some very good insight. My only past hesitation (which I will ignore for now), was that it seemed more about getting the sex to happen, versus her desire and interest. I could get laid every day (or close to it), but if that is mostly wife bent over the counter while I do my thing, then that does not fulfill me. My entire struggle is wanting a "vested partner". Either way, some of what he wrote resonated with me, and curious if it will have a different effect than I may have previously thought.
> 
> It cannot hurt to try.....


How you gone to Touch of Flavor and checked out the desire chart? or listen to any of their podcast on intimacy? as I have pointed out to many others, while their focus is on poly, even they have said that most of what they put out works just as well in monogamy.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Married_in_michigan said:


> We did read all the Schnarch books, based on advise from counselor, many years ago. *Helped for while, but they we both reverted back to our "old ways".* The scheduling thing is not great for either my wife or I. We did try once, but felt she was not really into it, when it was just because the calendar said it was our sex day...





Married_in_michigan said:


> ......but I feel frustrated, that I did put in a lot of effort and creativity for many years, *still go rejected, and now a bit gun shy to put myself out there*.
> 
> .....She wants it to be my issue, and lack of creativity on initiating, but based on years of attempts, I think she is either already open to the idea or not, and nothing I do will change that. I might take away her interest by being an ass or something, but if she has no current interest, nothing I do will just suddenly change that, *so I go back to waiting for her to initiate, and that happens much less often.
> 
> I feel that all the past rejection, has taken away my sexual self confidence.*


Since it worked in the past why not retry some counseling?

I would also suggest that you work on forgiving your wife for the obvious pain you have. That was one of the hardest things I have ever had to do. To really forgive is liberating. For me it required a lot of affirmations and self hypnosis.

Your words seem to indicate that you are hurt and that is changing how you feel about your W. It also probably is something that changes the way you treat her and she probably knows it from your body language and the tone of your voice or you facial expressions.

Good luck.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Married_in_michigan said:


> It seems, from my observations, that my wife, being the LD partner and not having much spontaneous desire, needs something fairly intriguing to get her interested and that my approach is not often doing that. I actually do not disagree, but I feel frustrated, that I did put in a lot of effort and creativity for many years, still go rejected, and now a bit gun shy to put myself out there. She does offer suggestions, or says "you are the high drive person...you think of creative ways", but it never seems that simple. Sometimes, it really seems so based on her hormonal state, that what I do or do not do, is not really a factor. She wants it to be my issue, and lack of creativity on initiating, but based on years of attempts, I think she is either already open to the idea or not, and nothing I do will change that. I might take away her interest by being an ass or something, but if she has no current interest, nothing I do will just suddenly change that, so I go back to waiting for her to initiate, and that happens much less often.


Sorry but this is just crap and you know it. You've just noted that the issue is not your lack of creativity but whether she is willing to be get herself to a receptive place.

Your question should not be "how do I get better at initiating sex?" Your dilemma is to get your wife to a point where she's accepting responsibility for getting herself in the mood and not just waiting for things to fall into place. And the only way to do that is to impose consequences. If she's not meeting your need, you go start doing your own thing and show her how it feels to have her needs disregarded.

If she objects, you simply make it clear that you're dropping your enthusiasm and effort down to her level, and she can step it up if she wants to see you step it up.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

DTO said:


> Sorry but this is just crap and you know it. You've just noted that the issue is not your lack of creativity but whether she is willing to be get herself to a receptive place.
> 
> Your question should not be "how do I get better at initiating sex?" Your dilemma is to get your wife to a point where she's accepting responsibility for getting herself in the mood and not just waiting for things to fall into place. And the only way to do that is to impose consequences. If she's not meeting your need, you go start doing your own thing and show her how it feels to have her needs disregarded.
> 
> If she objects, you simply make it clear that you're dropping your enthusiasm and effort down to her level, and she can step it up if she wants to see you step it up.


I guess you are probably right. My gut tells me you are right, but it seems hard to take that step.


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## luxxlife (Apr 22, 2020)

If you sit around waiting for her to initiate you are making her feel unwanted sexually. YOU as a husband have to initiate often as well, and IMO more often to keep her confidence up.
Offer a massage... ask her to join you in the shower... hug her from behind and kiss her neck... play with her hair and then kiss her while looking into her eyes and grinning... dance with her... buy her something sexy to wear... in bed kiss her stomach and thighs and tease her... there are so many things you can do. You have to turn her on.


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## luxxlife (Apr 22, 2020)

DTG said:


> What jlg07 said.
> 
> Tease, give her glimps of passion and intent. dont expect anything just be a little bit dominant and randomly pull her aside for a passionate kiss even if shes not keen or a cuddle when shes cooking, it shows intent and that your not waiting for her to intiate. Plan what you want to do and just go with it. Just be like "come on its massage time" dont suggest or ask just do. if you manage the massage and it leads nowhere then fine, at least you had some hands on time. Once you do get an oportunity then DONT forget foreplay, make sure its all about her satisfaction first then yours. Dont show signs of defeat or giving up, be consistent and have a thick skin.


^ THIS! As a wife, I wish my husband did this. I had this interaction before and it was much better than feeling neglected or having an awkward husband that cannot initiate ... this is all you need to do... it puts her in a mood to reciprocate and if she does not she is prude or there is another issue.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> My bf a timid initiator as well and it’s annoying. Most of the times I didn’t even realize he was trying until we talked about it the next day.
> 
> From a women’s point of view.... be confident, don’t over think our reactions/behavior, kiss kiss kiss, touch us over our clothes while you kiss us. This kissing and touching before your even in the bedroom is the best foreplay. And gently touch us, don’t grab and squeeze us during the foreplay time.


So...trying to honk them like those old time horn bulbs is a turn off?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> So...trying to honk them like those old time horn bulbs is a turn off?


I’m sure you will find women who are turned on by that. To each their own.


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## desiresmore (Oct 15, 2013)

I’m another one who’s situation has a lot of similarities to the OP. I mentioned it in another thread, but I started tracking our sex life in apple health on my iPhone back in 2015/2016. Back then I would ask for sex, pursue her and take all the quickies I could get, even though they felt hollow and lonely. At some point I got fed up with that and stopper pursuing her altogether. Maybe a few times a year out of desperation or sleeplessness I’ll ask her and we have a quickie, but 99% of the time now she is the initiator. Since making that change, I’ve seen our sex “number” drop from around 300 per year in 2016, to under 150 in 2017, the year I made that decision to change. In 2018 our count was 65 times that year, 2019 was 66 and here we are in May of 2020 and the cpunter is holding at just 18. 

If her desire is driving our sex experiences, we will barely have sex. If I pursue, we will have more sex but it will lots of quickies that I don’t find satisfying. Seriously, we’ll have a quickie and I’ll finish inside her, she goes to clean up but I’m laying there still rearming and ready for more, just not satisfied at all. 

So this pursuing thing is a real struggle for me too. I closely relate to the OP and his struggle to figure this out.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

desiresmore said:


> I’m another one who’s situation has a lot of similarities to the OP. I mentioned it in another thread, but I started tracking our sex life in apple health on my iPhone back in 2015/2016. Back then I would ask for sex, pursue her and take all the quickies I could get, even though they felt hollow and lonely. At some point I got fed up with that and stopper pursuing her altogether. Maybe a few times a year out of desperation or sleeplessness I’ll ask her and we have a quickie, but 99% of the time now she is the initiator. Since making that change, I’ve seen our sex “number” drop from around 300 per year in 2016, to under 150 in 2017, the year I made that decision to change. In 2018 our count was 65 times that year, 2019 was 66 and here we are in May of 2020 and the cpunter is holding at just 18.
> 
> If her desire is driving our sex experiences, we will barely have sex. If I pursue, we will have more sex but it will lots of quickies that I don’t find satisfying. Seriously, we’ll have a quickie and I’ll finish inside her, she goes to clean up but I’m laying there still rearming and ready for more, just not satisfied at all.
> 
> So this pursuing thing is a real struggle for me too. I closely relate to the OP and his struggle to figure this out.


All you can do it trial and error.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Married_in_michigan said:


> I seem to now come off like a sad puppy dog, wanting attention from my owner. I even see myself sometimes coming off as desperate, and I agree (even without her ever saying anything), that desperate is far from appealing. I believe, regardless if it is my wife, or some new women, I need to retrain myself to approach this with confidence and offer something or appeal.



Based on what you wrote, I don't know if this is helpful or not. But this is how our interactions have played out the last few days (or at least, the ones I'm comfortable sharing here). I noticed in my periphery that Batman was looking at me. Turning to face him, I said 'What?' (haha). He paused, gave me the look and said, 'Just checking you out..' I responded, 'Like what you see?' He replied, 'Come here, I'll show you.' 

Walking the dogs together, he was behind me and commented / observed / critiqued (ahem) how I was holding the dog leash. I looked back over my shoulder, slowed my walk, and said, 'I like my wrists bound..' He stopped in his tracks, tilted his head back and let out an 'mmm'. I kept walking. Back home, he sat in a chair getting ready to remove his shoes. I stroked the side of his face and said 'sexy' he responded with a smile and as I was about to walk away, grabbed my hand and pulled me back. So I climbed onto his lap, reverse cowgirl style, both still fully clothed, and he took the lead from there. 

While these are verbal interactions (with body language), there are moments where he will just come up kiss or caress me, walk away. Or not. Sitting together on the couch, he sometimes reaches across and gently strokes my hair, perhaps with a little unexpected sexy pull... that kind of thing. And it does shift my focus. I've given him eye contact where he's responded '..is that right?' and I've replied 'mhm'. Granted, I wouldn't be considered low-drive. 

What's your flirtation style?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

heartsbeating said:


> Based on what you wrote, I don't know if this is helpful or not. But this is how our interactions have played out the last few days (or at least, the ones I'm comfortable sharing here). I noticed in my periphery that Batman was looking at me. Turning to face him, I said 'What?' (haha). He paused, gave me the look and said, 'Just checking you out..' I responded, 'Like what you see?' He replied, 'Come here, I'll show you.'
> 
> Walking the dogs together, he was behind me and commented / observed / critiqued (ahem) how I was holding the dog leash. I looked back over my shoulder, slowed my walk, and said, 'I like my wrists bound..' He stopped in his tracks, tilted his head back and let out an 'mmm'. I kept walking. Back home, he sat in a chair getting ready to remove his shoes. I stroked the side of his face and said 'sexy' he responded with a smile and as I was about to walk away, grabbed my hand and pulled me back. So I climbed onto his lap, reverse cowgirl style, both still fully clothed, and he took the lead from there.
> 
> ...


Durn,

Your post makes me feel humble this morning.

A little background. Sat/Sun DW and I dedicated some time, creating some space for just us, right now we've our oldest son and one grandson with us for a week, but we know the importance of us time so no huge deal.

That said, yesterday evening was more a grandson time, all good, although I would've enjoyed a little encounter with DW. But family time all good, as it should be.

Here's the humbling part, after reading your initiating post:

This morning after I showered, W woke up, during morning hugs I said hey, maybe we can have a sandwich for supper.
Which is our shorthand sometimes when Ive been thinking her evenings have been too busy with supper and house guests she needs to free up earlier rather that later next evening for some us time.

So, the sandwich comment worked, good times this evening, but compared to your post, I could have added a little spice to my shorthand this morning. 

Hanging my head. Only temporarily though. 😎😍


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Here's the humbling part, after reading your initiating post:
> 
> This morning after I showered, W woke up, during morning hugs I said hey, maybe we can have a sandwich for supper.
> Which is our shorthand sometimes when Ive been thinking her evenings have been too busy with supper and house guests she needs to free up earlier rather that later next evening for some us time.
> ...


I don't understand why you'd be hanging your head?

Although I wasn't sure whether your mention of sandwich is code for sex... or meaning have a low-fuss night? Sometimes we have BFD (breakfast for dinner), nothing to do with sex though. Anyway, what I did take from your post was that you shared affection in the morning, and sexual intimacy in the evening. Thing is, without knowing your dynamic, I question whether the sandwich comment 'worked'... no doubt an accumulation of interactions which started in the morning led to further shared closeness? But if the sandwich is code for sex, you gotta suit the dynamic between you. The way my husband and I interact may not suit other personality types / dynamics. In saying that, being lighthearted and flirty with one's spouse is fun, connecting, and sometimes goofy. Enjoy the good times and the fun. What kind of sandwich was it?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

My shorthand for we need to have sex tonight, no matter if we have family over or not, is let's have a sandwich tonight for supper. Cuts down on debate and we can say it in mixed company.

Kind of lacking in the flirting and warming up but cuts to the chase when needed and I'm telling her that her evenings have been too busy.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

And it worked yesterday, 

Course it always works - that's one of our dynamics. When I or she brings the sandwich topic up, it's gonna happen. 

Last night, hot ham and cheese, few chips, quick showers and after an hour we got back up, still visited with family.


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## University2016 (May 4, 2020)

Married_in_michigan said:


> I get where you are going with this, and I have read many of your posts/comments on TAM and know (and appreciate) your take on these matters. My "believing her", is because I can look from an outside view, and know that many of my advances are "timid" (not sure of a better word to use), and can see why any women may not find that very sexy or appealing. After a lot of rejection, I seem to now come off like a sad puppy dog, wanting attention from my owner. I even see myself sometimes coming off as desperate, and I agree (even without her ever saying anything), that desperate is far from appealing. I believe, regardless if it is my wife, or some new women, I need to retrain myself to approach this with confidence and offer something or appeal. My struggle, is that that is easy to say outside the moment, but seems a challenge when it comes time to do it. And,......its only in this area of my life. I have no issues with assertiveness or confidence in my work place, with social friends, raising my kids, etc.
> 
> A marriage counselor told me a few year ago, that I was focusing on my partner being at the same level of sexual interest (in the moment) as I was, and if I sensed it otherwise, I backed off and said "never mind". There is some truth to that. For me, its not about just getting the act of sex (that is easy to do), but about sharing in the eroticism and sexual energy with your partner. This all plays into my initiation...if I try....get a half ass response, I take that as a rejection.


Jesus. In my post you asked if I was your wife. Now I’ll ask if you’re my husband?? Maybe we can help each other 🤷🏻‍♀️ It is so hard. The initiating is everything. Personally I like to have time to mentally prepare. Like earlier in the day a text or hug/kiss and saying I’d love it if you came to bed in some sexy lingerie tonight. Putting in the lingerie even can get me in the mood a little


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## University2016 (May 4, 2020)

Married_in_michigan said:


> That is good advise...and I appreciate it. You addressed directly an area I struggle with. I am not worried about skill of the act itself, it is me stopping prior, when I dont feel the level of energy coming from her. I will take your advice, and go with it. It cannot hurt to try it that way


I agree with this some too. It would be nice if I wasn’t much in the mood. Which is like never lol if he treated it more light heartedly instead of like a hurt or rejection and came back with. Well baby. Let me change that. Put this on. Or just come at me.


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## Imjustaslostasyou (Apr 22, 2020)

Married_in_michigan said:


> So...wondering if this group can give me some help on some ideas for initiating sex. I am the HD partner, and years of a lot of rejection left me a bit hesitant to initiate, even though I am the higher drive partner. When I do, it often comes off with either a lack of confidence, or too blunt. As some progress has happened in my marriage in the last couple years, my wife has shared that my approach is often either lacking confidence (which is not sexy), or does not offer something that is so appealing that it will take her from "not really thinking about sex" to "ok...that might be fun".
> 
> I agree with her, and know that I used to be pretty creative, but enough rejection made me feel awkward about putting myself out there. I am very confident in every other area of my life, but somewhat timid about initiating sex, and timid is not sexy.
> 
> ...


Hate reading things like this. I have the same problem and what always comes to mind to me is does she really love me/you as much as she says she does. Being intimate takes love and if intimacy is not there neither is love. Maybe we both need help.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

University2016 said:


> Jesus. In my post you asked if I was your wife. Now I’ll ask if you’re my husband?? Maybe we can help each other 🤷🏻‍♀️ It is so hard. The initiating is everything. Personally I like to have time to mentally prepare. Like earlier in the day





University2016 said:


> I agree with this some too. It would be nice if I wasn’t much in the mood. Which is like never lol if he treated it more light heartedly instead of like a hurt or rejection and came back with. Well baby. Let me change that. Put this on. Or just come at me.


The just come at me part is great.
DW and I both sometimes say just brace yourself...

So, though, I believe I'm hearing you say that your almost always ready, much more than H, but you do turn him down time to time?

Are his responses to the rejections a problem?

Are there more rejections than believed? Just double checking that.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

luxxlife said:


> If you sit around waiting for her to initiate you are making her feel unwanted sexually. YOU as a husband have to initiate often as well, and IMO more often to keep her confidence up.
> Offer a massage... ask her to join you in the shower... hug her from behind and kiss her neck... play with her hair and then kiss her while looking into her eyes and grinning... dance with her... buy her something sexy to wear... in bed kiss her stomach and thighs and tease her... there are so many things you can do. You have to turn her on.


Not sure I agree with this. My Wife hardly ever initiates and knows I’d have sex every single time she did.

I’ve also asked her on numerous occasions to join me in the shower and she just pulls a face. Once I even got in the shower when she was in there and I was told to get clean quick and leave as she wanted to wash her hair.

We’ve also discussed more affection during the day. Hugs and kisses etc and she said she’s just not that type of person.

Sex doesn’t happen unless I initiate it which I’ll only do when we’ve had a drink as she’s interested then. I’m wasting my time otherwise because she just rejects and I get annoyed.

When it’s time of the month there’s no helping hand for me, she no longer performs oral sex either.

I also suggested that a lot of therapists recommend scheduling a day or two A week for sex as it’s better than having none and she said she couldn’t think of anything worse than scheduled sex.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Well this story resonates a lot with me, and the OP should be thankful that his wife is at least willing. To go a step further and get to a point where she is "wanting" as well will require changing your perspective. 

It sounds as if your wife has little to no spontaneous desire, or that she has difficulty associating things that are arousing with something that will actually get her aroused. I can tell you have read a lot of books (like me) and you are to a point where you have likely tried everything. Here is my advice:

Your wife does seem to have a strong desire to make you happy if she is willing to take care of your needs (even if it appears she is not in the mood to enjoy it herself). In this scenario you could have yourself the perfect recipe for things to get pretty wild if you can get into the mindset of some role play. Imagine as if she is a dominatrix that wants to haze you into being more self confident! 

Take a concept that you struggle with outside the bedroom, like worrying about getting a sunburn which might make you avoid the sun like a vampire. Tell your wife that you are willing to go to the beach and work on your tan, but do this in a moment that you would want her to get aroused. Tell her you might need a little motivation to help you go through with it (implied sexually). ...and use small talk about ways you want to improve yourself as the notion of "what it is" that might get her aroused. 

For one thing it will likely distract her from whatever nonsense she has going on in her mind that prevents her from getting in the mood. The idea of you getting out of your shell and being confident to try different things will be appealing to her. Allowing her to tease and play with you sexually as part of the process likely will be very arousing for her. Then as you work on your self confidence you could play some mind games and tell her that it is all about you and that she is not allowed to get aroused (hopefully she will fail at that).... the possibilities are endless!!!!!!

Good luck 



Badsanta


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> Not sure I agree with this. My Wife hardly ever initiates and knows I’d have sex every single time she did.
> 
> I’ve also asked her on numerous occasions to join me in the shower and she just pulls a face. Once I even got in the shower when she was in there and I was told to get clean quick and leave as she wanted to wash her hair.
> 
> ...


My marriage has gone through this phase, more than once. My situation is a little different, in the way that my wife will "give a helping hand", but for me, I have no interest in that. My wife goes with what ever her mood is at the time. She could have a glass of wine and want sex, but five minutes later not be in the mood. She could go three weeks and not think about it, or go 5 days in a row that she wants it. Often, she wants me to take a more active role to initiate, but unfortunately, as much as she says she wants that, if she is not already in the mood, my initiation can only result in "service" sex. There is something in her, that wants to be seduced, but then also makes her feel manipulated. She has recently reminded me, the second that she knows I am interested, her mind immediately goes to "its all about him", and she shuts down. She told me, it would be better, for it to happen when she is in the mood already, but that can be so, so much less than what works for me. I feel caught in a catch 22


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## desiresmore (Oct 15, 2013)

MIM, that sure is confusing isn’t it? I think our dynamic is very similar. I wish I had good answers but the only solution I can think of is for her to work with you on this challenge. If she isn’t willing to work through the challenge or give any thought/effort/time to it, then it’s never going to change.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

This mind sound harsh but if a women doesn’t want sex or her libido has greatly reduced then it’s up to her to get it back or give her husband permission to get it elsewhere. Same goes for a woman if her husband was refraining.

In your instance your wife is actually going along with things whether she is in the mood or not which shows she loves and cares about you.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> This mind sound harsh but if a women doesn’t want sex or her libido has greatly reduced then it’s up to her to get it back or give her husband permission to get it elsewhere. Same goes for a woman if her husband was refraining.
> 
> In your instance your wife is actually going along with things whether she is in the mood or not which shows she loves and cares about you.


That may be true, and she will "go alone", but at least for me, that is not at all fulfilling. The desire and sexual energy is the draw for partnered sex. I can give myself and orgasm anytime I want. Having someone help me do it, if they are not mentally engaged, is of little value. With that said, there are always going to be occasions that one person in the relationship is not in the mood, or to the same level as the other, and will go along with it because they love the other person, but that cannot be the norm and considered fullfilling


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Married_in_michigan said:


> That may be true, and she will "go alone", but at least for me, that is not at all fulfilling. The desire and sexual energy is the draw for partnered sex. I can give myself and orgasm anytime I want. Having someone help me do it, if they are not mentally engaged, is of little value. With that said, there are always going to be occasions that one person in the relationship is not in the mood, or to the same level as the other, and will go along with it because they love the other person, but that cannot be the norm and considered fullfilling


If I had your attitude then my marriage would be deader than a doornail. You can't go through life with Cheap Trick's "I Want You to Want Me" as your constant theme song playing in the background for your entire life. It is a great song, don't get me wrong, but eventually it looses it's charm. 

If you study romance in nature it is usually the male's job to attract the female and get her interest. Imagine a male peacock crying and complaining that he needs for a female to be the one that shows off an arousing display to conjure up male interest and arousal. ....wait a minute the human male has done just that, as the female of our species is the one that dresses up super attractive and often has a spectacular hairdo (well not right at this moment since most salons are closed, but you know what I mean). 

OK, now I confused myself. Just ignore me. 

Badsanta


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

badsanta said:


> If I had your attitude then my marriage would be deader than a doornail. You can't go through life with Cheap Trick's "I Want You to Want Me" as your constant theme song playing in the background for your entire life. It is a great song, don't get me wrong, but eventually it looses it's charm.
> 
> If you study romance in nature it is usually the male's job to attract the female and get her interest. Imagine a male peacock crying and complaining that he needs for a female to be the one that shows off an arousing display to conjure up male interest and arousal. ....wait a minute the human male has done just that, as the female of our species is the one that dresses up super attractive and often has a spectacular hairdo (well not right at this moment since most salons are closed, but you know what I mean).
> 
> ...


I understand that may be reality, but does not mean I have interest in living that way. If it is one persons job to convince the other, I would rather forego monogamy and just stay in the "new" phase casual relationship. Sex without mutual desire is boring and unfulfilling.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Married_in_michigan said:


> My marriage has gone through this phase, more than once. My situation is a little different, in the way that my wife will "give a helping hand", but for me, I have no interest in that. My wife goes with what ever her mood is at the time. She could have a glass of wine and want sex, but five minutes later not be in the mood. She could go three weeks and not think about it, or go 5 days in a row that she wants it. Often, she wants me to take a more active role to initiate, but unfortunately, as much as she says she wants that, if she is not already in the mood, my initiation can only result in "service" sex. There is something in her, that wants to be seduced, but then also makes her feel manipulated. *She has recently reminded me, the second that she knows I am interested, her mind immediately goes to "its all about him", and she shuts down.* She told me, it would be better, for it to happen when she is in the mood already, but that can be so, so much less than what works for me. I feel caught in a catch 22


I'm going to be a little on the negative side and say she's creating the exact scenario she wants and she knows she's doing it on purpose.

That is where you're confused and she always has the upper hand on yes no maybe but I don't want to but I will anyway if you want now that you don't want because I've stressed you that's what I wanted anyway which is no sex for you but I've confused you enough you'll try again later.

Whew!


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I had a thought along this line today and it is just bugging me. I hope you will excuse me using a similar thread.
How does a woman who couldn't initiate a romantic encounter if Rogers and Hammerstein scripted it, manage to have an affair?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Thinking about this thread, MIM, with sharing in the sexual (or sensual) energy, aside from what I wrote about flirtation, do you and your wife sync breathing and that kind of intimacy? No verbal interaction needed, preferably naked, just syncing your breathing together? Looking into each others eyes, breathing in similar patterns / syncing the breath. This can also become that one inhales as the other exhales... with a stroke of the face, hair, arms... the intention isn't 'do this + do that = intercourse' it's sharing in sensual/spiritual energy. It may be just that moment shared; it may be that moment opens to more connection. Anyway, just a thought.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

I hear what you're saying, but at some point the sexual effort has to be mutual.The default should be in favor of having a regular, fulfilling sex life - not against it. If my partner is always against sex (assuming I'm a decent dude) then it's up to her to fix herself; ultimately, she is the one who has to decide to change her behavior.

You're analogy to the animal world really doesn't hold up, because there's usually no emotional bond. Animals mate for procreation and the males go away; or, the female rejects the male and he goes away. Even so, most men are fine with putting in the effort to woo a woman. It's only when this effort is met with lots of rejection that the guys start pulling back.

Personally, I've been there and done that - never again. I've walked away from two ladies having issues interfering with a decent sex life but refused to address them. Best relationship decisions I've made.

For me, it's simple. If something I'm doing is making it hard for you to be interested, please tell me; I'm happy to have a meaningful discussion and do what I can to change the dynamic. If you're just not interested anymore, please feel free to find someone who turns you on more. If you have some issue that prevents your response, I'll help you fix it however I can but it needs to be fixed.



badsanta said:


> If I had your attitude then my marriage would be deader than a doornail. You can't go through life with Cheap Trick's "I Want You to Want Me" as your constant theme song playing in the background for your entire life. It is a great song, don't get me wrong, but eventually it looses it's charm.
> 
> If you study romance in nature it is usually the male's job to attract the female and get her interest. Imagine a male peacock crying and complaining that he needs for a female to be the one that shows off an arousing display to conjure up male interest and arousal. ....wait a minute the human male has done just that, as the female of our species is the one that dresses up super attractive and often has a spectacular hairdo (well not right at this moment since most salons are closed, but you know what I mean).
> 
> ...


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

BIL310 said:


> Not sure I agree with this. My Wife hardly ever initiates and knows I’d have sex every single time she did.
> 
> I’ve also asked her on numerous occasions to join me in the shower and she just pulls a face. Once I even got in the shower when she was in there and I was told to get clean quick and leave as she wanted to wash her hair.
> 
> ...


You need to bail out. She's signaling clearly that your sexual needs don't matter and she's not willing to adjust her behavior to create a better experience. It's her way or the highway.


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## Marriednatlanta (Sep 21, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I'm going to be a little on the negative side and say she's creating the exact scenario she wants and she knows she's doing it on purpose.
> 
> That is where you're confused and she always has the upper hand on yes no maybe but I don't want to but I will anyway if you want now that you don't want because I've stressed you that's what I wanted anyway which is no sex for you but I've confused you enough you'll try again later.
> 
> Whew!


MiM and I have married sisters . @Ragnar Ragnasson you are right though -- as long as we let them have the upper hand of the "when" "where" "how long" etc...we will have no power.


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## Marriednatlanta (Sep 21, 2016)

desiresmore said:


> MIM, that sure is confusing isn’t it? I think our dynamic is very similar. I wish I had good answers but the only solution I can think of is for her to work with you on this challenge. If she isn’t willing to work through the challenge or give any thought/effort/time to it, then it’s never going to change.


It is very frustrating especially when one does not want to go to the nuclear option and blow up the marriage.


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## Marriednatlanta (Sep 21, 2016)

Married_in_michigan said:


> I get where you are going with this, and I have read many of your posts/comments on TAM and know (and appreciate) your take on these matters. My "believing her", is because I can look from an outside view, and know that many of my advances are "timid" (not sure of a better word to use), and can see why any women may not find that very sexy or appealing. After a lot of rejection, I seem to now come off like a sad puppy dog, wanting attention from my owner. I even see myself sometimes coming off as desperate, and I agree (even without her ever saying anything), that desperate is far from appealing. I believe, regardless if it is my wife, or some new women, I need to retrain myself to approach this with confidence and offer something or appeal. My struggle, is that that is easy to say outside the moment, but seems a challenge when it comes time to do it. And,......its only in this area of my life. I have no issues with assertiveness or confidence in my work place, with social friends, raising my kids, etc.
> 
> A marriage counselor told me a few year ago, that I was focusing on my partner being at the same level of sexual interest (in the moment) as I was, and if I sensed it otherwise, I backed off and said "never mind". There is some truth to that. For me, its not about just getting the act of sex (that is easy to do), but about sharing in the eroticism and sexual energy with your partner. This all plays into my initiation...if I try....get a half ass response, I take that as a rejection.


Right -- how many times have you been "in the moment" and ready to say "honey - lets try XXX" only to cave in and just go with the usual program because you'd rather have sex then not have sex. I feel the pain and I can identify with everything you are saying. Although your DW seems slightly more into sex then my DW.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

DTO said:


> You need to bail out. She's signaling clearly that your sexual needs don't matter and she's not willing to adjust her behavior to create a better experience. It's her way or the highway.


She never used to be like this. I told her how I was feeling and she just replied with it's always about you isn't it. Anyway I told her I was worried that someday I'm going to get my head turned by someone else hoping she would change. She didn't and I got my head turned on a night out, ended up having a short affair and my wife caught me. I should have left before that happened and it caused a significant amount of trauma for a lot of people including my 2 kids. We ended up separated for 3-4 months but are now back together.

Things were going well after we reconciled, my Wife made more of an effort and we were even sneaking back to our apartment on holiday for day sex. She was also initiating. Things however have now gone back to the way things were before i cheated. She never initiates, never compliments on me anything, no hugs, kisses etc. We only have sex after we've had a drink which i've talked about on here before. She gets in bed, undresses from what she's wearing then actually puts her nightie on knowing full well what's about to happen, then takes if off in bed after I lean over and start the ball rolling. I've even asked her after we've finished, why do you put your nightie on when you know what's going to happen, she says i don't know it's just something I do. My wife also states she's never masturbated, certainly not for 15+ years.

It was the hardest thing in my life telling the kids we were separating I'll never forget their faces, i couldn't do that to them again. I'm going to speak to my wife about it.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

BIL310 said:


> She never used to be like this. I told her how I was feeling and *she just replied with it's always about you isn't it*. Anyway I told her I was worried that someday I'm going to get my head turned by someone else hoping she would change. She didn't and I got my head turned on a night out, ended up having a short affair and my wife caught me. I should have left before that happened and it caused a significant amount of trauma for a lot of people including my 2 kids. We ended up separated for 3-4 months but are now back together.


That highlighted part is crap. If you are going to exist happily in this marriage, you need to learn how to say "you know that's not the case. But it had better be about me a chunk of the time - I'm worth it."


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## Marriednatlanta (Sep 21, 2016)

DTO said:


> Sorry but this is just crap and you know it. You've just noted that the issue is not your lack of creativity but whether she is willing to be get herself to a receptive place.
> 
> Your question should not be "how do I get better at initiating sex?" Your dilemma is to get your wife to a point where she's accepting responsibility for getting herself in the mood and not just waiting for things to fall into place. And the only way to do that is to impose consequences. If she's not meeting your need, you go start doing your own thing and show her how it feels to have her needs disregarded.
> 
> If she objects, you simply make it clear that you're dropping your enthusiasm and effort down to her level, and she can step it up if she wants to see you step it up.


If only @Married_in_michigan and I could merge our threads lol. But @DTO I believe you have valid points. I realize they differ from @Ragnar Ragnasson and @heartsbeating and @Young at Heart and everyone else I am forgetting. Good luck MIM. I am rooting for you too.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

DTO said:


> That highlighted part is crap. If you are going to exist happily in this marriage, you need to learn how to say "you know that's not the case. But it had better be about me a chunk of the time - I'm worth it."


Funny you should say that we ended up having a discussion about her parents (they are always at our house) and I said I don't care if you tell them that sometimes I don't want them to come here but at the end of the day I'm your husband surely what I want is more important to which she replied "you're not more important than my Mum and you never will come before her". I just replied well therein lies the crux of our problems.


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