# just found out...



## Mike72

Started another thread in the divorce/separation forum, but was advised I'd get more feedback from here.

The Mrs & I have had an up and down marriage over the years. Just celebrated 25 years in January. Lots of stress along the way. Kids health issues (diabetes, cancer, drug addiction), depression, etc.

2 weeks ago she tells me she wants a divorce. Her feelings for me have gone "numb". She says she'll always love me, and I'll always be the love of her life, but she can't help the way she feels. I was in alot of pain, and decided to go back to AA meetings (been sober since 1996, but haven't been to meetings in 15 years). 

Since I started going back to meetings, I've been changing. Instead of being and feeling like an emotional mess, full of fear, anger, resentment, pain, I've been more at peace, handling things alot better.

Our oldest son is in a rehab out in California. She flew out there this weekend to see him. On Wednesday night, she made the mistake of leaving her phone next to the bed. There were texts from a guy she works with. He wrote - "can't wait to see you again. Love that sexy ass. Miss you". She wrote - "It's weird seeing you at work like that. I feel like everyone can see right through me. I'm such a horrible liar".

When she came down 5 minutes later, she asked if we could have sex, but she didn't want me to get the wrong idea. I said I couldn't because I'm working on stuff and it's just not right right now. She said she understood, then stared at the ceiling until she fell asleep.

The next day on the way to the airport, she mentioned how I seem like a different person since going back to meetings. I said I should have been going the whole time, instead of getting lazy. Alot of the problems we had would have been avioded. It's true.

We laughed and talked all the way to the airport. We said "I love you" to each other when we said good-bye. We've talked every day she's been there. She comes home tomorrow night.

I don't know what happens next, if I should tell her I know, or let this play out. I know how it will end. As long as I keep going to meetings and be a better person, working on myself, she sees the difference in me. It's what I need to do, no matter what. This guy on the other hand, is a straight player. Spends every weekend at the clubs, has something like 6 kids with 4 or 5 different women, and told her long ago, it's like that because he "gets bored easy" and needs to move on.

She's confused and screwing up, there's no future in this with this guy, but I'm not sure she realizes it. I still love her, and only want the best for her. She's making a mistake. I've made plenty of mistakes in the past.

Should I bring up the fact I know what's going on, or let this play out and reality set in?


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## MAJDEATH

Change the locks while she's out of town. That should get her attention. And say "I think D is a great idea", and move in a female friend to the house.


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## Marc878

If you want to save your marriage go full exposure to, friends, family, etc before you confront her. That's the best way of stopping this.

I'd give her the option me or him and file. Just letting it play out and be her plan B doormat won't get you anywhere. She'll lose any respect for you.

She's already ahead of you. Get your evidence together. Check your phonebill if you want to see how deep and how long this affair has been hoping on.

Step up or be stepped on.

She'll be p!ssed off but it's better than you being p!ssed on.


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## happy as a clam

Marc878 said:


> I'd give her the option me or him and file. Just letting it play out and be her plan B doormat *won't get you anywhere.* She lose lose any respect for you.


:iagree:


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## Mike72

I see. Seems the concensus is to tell her I know ASAP.

Nor sure about the changing the locks and moving another lady in while she's gone for 2 days. Might have to pass on that one....lol


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## Marc878

Stay on one thread. You'll get more input that way.


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## ConanHub

Arrange for the house to be empty when she arrives.
If you can't have divorce papers drawn up, download some and leave them with a note.

Have the note be short.

"We have worked through a lot in our time together. We could have worked through this as well but you chose to fvck another man. I hope how much he enjoys your nice ass can compensate you for our marriage because you just shyt on 25 years for this loser. Enjoy your life as his plaything. You are beneath my contempt even though my heart is broken. I am healing from your betrayal and will be exploring my options to find a woman with enough dignity to be my wife. You obviously don't have what it takes."

Then wait for your phone to blow up but don't answer and don't be found by her for a day or two.

Read up on the infidelity stickies and play hardball. You will get what you want out of this. Divorce on your terms or reconciliation on your terms.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878

Mike72 said:


> I see. Seems the concensus is to tell her I know ASAP.
> 
> Nor sure about the changing the locks and moving another lady in while she's gone for 2 days. Might have to pass on that one....lol


I would do exposure first. Keep the high ground. Stay away from other women. It'll just make her actions justifiable.


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## Mike72

The only "evidence" I have is what I read. It was pretty cut & dry though, as far as what they were talking about.

Everyone says check the phone records. Would that show deleted text messages and what they said, or just date & times?

The cell phone plan is in her name, but I'm on the same plan, as well as the kids. Could I go to the provider (Sprint, T-Mobile, Verizon) store itself and get transcripts, or is it something I have to request and then wait on?


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## Lots to Learn

Listen friend, sorry you are here but glad you found us. It's quiet on the weekend but many will come along to support you. 

You seems like you have your head on straight. Get ready for the ride of your life. You should expose her, there is no other way. As many others have said you can't nice them back. Don't be a doormat, and do not get yourself into limbo. 

I am happy to see that you recognize that you have to work on you. That said, the affair is not on you, nor is it about you. It's not!!

You need to confront her, state your boundaries and then go 180. Do not let her blameshift on you. Problems in the marriage? Who doesn't? You own some of that sure, but so does she. The affair? That's on her, period! If she wanted out, and respected you she could have done many many things. 

I encourage you to read as much as you can in this section of the forum. It will give you great insight into how this typically goes down. You like most of us before you will thing your wife and situation is different. It's not. She will run the script. Read!

Focus on you and your health right now 

Kids?

Keep posting we are here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878

Get a good plan together with your evidence. Let her deal with the exposure. An affair is 100% on her. No one deserves this. There are lots of info on here for anything you need. Knowledge is power so get prepared now. In two days you should be ready.

Do not back down. Him or you. The ones who come out of this best are the ones that are strong set their boundaries and font back down. If she wants a divorce give it to her quickly it may be your only way to salvage this.

I'd go completely dark until she gets back after the exposure. Let her deal with it. You'll know very quickly whether she's a keeper or you're just wasting your time/ life on this.


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## 225985

Mike, Congratulations on reaching 25 years of marriage. That is quite an achievement under normal circumstances, but doing that with all your family's issues - WOW.

That said, you will not make it to 26 if you just let this play out. Your wife is having an emotional affair at a minimum. Classic behavior. Every text or call from Other Man gives your wife a dopamine rush that keeps pushing her away from you. She is as highly addicted to this OM as you may have been with alcohol or your son with drugs. The single most important thing for you to do to save your marriage is to have your wife break all contact with this OM.

The most experienced posters will give you excellent detailed step by step advice on how to potentially save your marriage. Follow it. You are unique but the situation of cheating spouse is not unique.


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## Marc878

Lots to Learn said:


> Listen friend, sorry you are here but glad you found us. It's quiet on the weekend but many will come along to support you.
> 
> You seems like you have your head on straight. Get ready for the ride of your life. You should expose her, there is no other way. As many others have said you can't nice them back. Don't be a doormat, and do not get yourself into limbo.
> 
> I am happy to see that you recognize that you have to work on you. That said, the affair is not on you, nor is it about you. It's not!!
> 
> You need to confront her, state your boundaries and then go 180. Do not let her blameshift on you. Problems in the marriage? Who doesn't? You own some of that sure, but so does she. The affair? That's on her, period! If she wanted out, and respected you she could have done many many things.
> 
> I encourage you to read as much as you can in this section of the forum. It will give you great insight into how this typically goes down. You like most of us before you will thing your wife and situation is different. It's not. She will run the script. Read!
> 
> Focus on you and your health right now
> 
> Kids?
> 
> Keep posting we are here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Excellent advice from a guy who's just come from where you are.

Pay attention to him!!!!!! They all have the same cheaters script.


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## Marc878

Mike72 said:


> The only "evidence" I have is what I read. It was pretty cut & dry though, as far as what they were talking about.
> 
> Everyone says check the phone records. Would that show deleted text messages and what they said, or just date & times?
> 
> The cell phone plan is in her name, but I'm on the same plan, as well as the kids. Could I go to the provider (Sprint, T-Mobile, Verizon) store itself and get transcripts, or is it something I have to request and then wait on?


It'll just show you dates, time, etc. to get her texts you would have recover deleted texts from her phone but it will give you a timeline, activity, when it started, depth etc. a good starting point

You can go online if you have the password and get all that info for a year.

It's tougher getting the actual text messages. Best if you can get her phone.


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## Stang197

There are ways to recover deleted texts on phones. The more time that has gone by the phone will start to write over them so if you want them you have to act fast. Just Google it and find the right program for the phone OS. The carrier might have records but they would only hand them over to the person who is on the account or law enforcement. Cheaters are sloppy and there is tons of ways to catch them but if she wants to divorce then what's the point. I agree with exposure though. If you have any chance at all that is the first step. Exposure to everyone involved. Including the POSOM's wife. That should put the brakes on this in she order. Thing is that once she wants to come back you probably won't want her any more.


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## GusPolinski

Mike72 said:


> The only "evidence" I have is what I read. It was pretty cut & dry though, as far as what they were talking about.
> 
> Everyone says check the phone records. Would that show deleted text messages and what they said, or just date & times?
> 
> The cell phone plan is in her name, but I'm on the same plan, as well as the kids. Could I go to the provider (Sprint, T-Mobile, Verizon) store itself and get transcripts, or is it something I have to request and then wait on?


Call and text records from the service provider will show date/timestamps for all calls and texts sent and received, length of time for each phone call, etc. If you want more than that (from the service provider, anyway), you'll need a court order, and you probably won't get it.

If you want to see the actual texts, you can run data recovery software against her phone in order to retrieve any texts that might have been deleted. If you're looking to do this, I'd advise doing it before you say ANYTHING to her. If she uses an iPhone, and backs her phone up via iCloud, you can actually do this remotely, but I wouldn't advise doing it w/o having the device in hand (unless, of course, you have the username and password for her iCloud account AND the password for the e-mail account linked to the iCloud account), as doing it will likely trigger an iCloud login notification e-mail.

Honestly, though, you've already seen all that you need to see in order to know that she's cheating. Based on that, unless having hard evidence would help you in the divorce, I wouldn't bother.

Talk w/ an attorney first.

Is this guy married? If so, you should consider notifying his wife of the affair as well, but probably not until you've come to a decision w/ respect to your end game goals, next moves, etc.


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## Mike72

Well, she can't deny what I read. I read it word for word - 

Him - "can't wait to see you again. Love that sexy ass. Miss you"

Her - "It's weird seeing you at work like this. I feel like everyone can see right through me. I'm such a horrible liar"

It's probably deleted by now, but it's all the evidence I have. I don't have the time or resources to have a PI follow her around.


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## 225985

Mike72 said:


> The only "evidence" I have is what I read. It was pretty cut & dry though, as far as what they were talking about.
> 
> Everyone says check the phone records. Would that show deleted text messages and what they said, or just date & times?
> 
> The cell phone plan is in her name, but I'm on the same plan, as well as the kids. Could I go to the provider (Sprint, T-Mobile, Verizon) store itself and get transcripts, or is it something I have to request and then wait on?


The provider cannot help you with deleted texts. To do that, you will need the phone and software to access the phone. The phone records may not show individual numbers called, but if so the OM might be one of the numbers. Check to see if a sudden increase in the number of texts your wife is sending. That might give you some timeline. That might be listed on the phone bill. But know that there are other apps W can used to text besides the regular phone. You will not have access to those texts but you might see the apps installed on her phone.


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## GusPolinski

Mike72 said:


> Well, she can't deny what I read. I read it word for word -
> 
> Him - "can't wait to see you again. Love that sexy ass. Miss you"
> 
> Her - "It's weird seeing you at work like this. I feel like everyone can see right through me. I'm such a horrible liar"
> 
> It's probably deleted by now, but it's all the evidence I have. I don't have the time or resources to have a PI follow her around.


You don't need one at this point. As you said, there's no denying what you saw.

What type of phone does she use?


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## Mike72

This guy isn't married. He's too much of a player to settle down. That's why he spends all his weekends at the clubs, and has 6 kids with 4 or 5 different women. He's a real winner.


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## Mike72

Samsung Galaxy Edge 6


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## Marc878

It would be easier if she sinc'd her phone to a PC. You can just access the PC used.


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## Marc878

Mike72 said:


> This guy isn't married. He's too much of a player to settle down. That's why he spends all his weekends at the clubs, and has 6 kids with 4 or 5 different women. He's a real winner.


Maybe but he's got your wife hooked.

What about her friends, family, etc. how old are your kids?


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## Mike72

Son - 24
Son - 17
Daughter - 15
Daughter - 12


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## Mike72

We're both 43.

Got started early...


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## Marc878

Mike72 said:


> Well, she can't deny what I read. I read it word for word -
> 
> Him - "can't wait to see you again. Love that sexy ass. Miss you"
> 
> Her - "It's weird seeing you at work like this. I feel like everyone can see right through me. I'm such a horrible liar"
> 
> It's probably deleted by now, but it's all the evidence I have. I don't have the time or resources to have a PI follow her around.


So it's a coworker???? Or boss?


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## Stang197

Just blow this up with exposure.... To everyone. That is the single most effective thing you can do. Then 180 her but. Then you sit back and watch her delusional little fantasy fall apart.


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## Mike72

Coworker


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## Lots to Learn

Mike;

Gently...what do you want?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

I forgot. Leave your ring on the note and divorce papers. Make sure all your toiletries and many of your outfits are gone.

You will have to clue friends and family in to what is going on.

Have the kids safely away with relatives or friends.

You honestly seem kind of low key and not nearly angry enough over her betrayal and risking STD's or paternity fraud if she is still fertile.

You did not make her cheat or have anything to do with her spreading them for a moron.

She will need to quit her job immediately. How will that impact you?

You are in a royal mess because of her immense stupidity and selfishness.

Nice of her to put her crotch above the well being of your children not to mention you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MAJDEATH

Mike, consider yourself lucky that you were able to see this message exchange right as it happened, verifying an A in progress. I would have given ANYTHING to see clear evidence like this in my serial cheater situation. It would have saved years of lies and countless hours in a counselor's office. And now you have a few days to plan your next move. Just know from my experience until the A is completely over, you are POWERLESS to convince her or "nice" her into returning to logical thinking. She is in the fog, and nothing you can do or say, short of something very radical to end the A, will work. 25 yrs together, doesn't matter. 4 kids with special needs, doesn't matter. You are the best lover in the world, doesn't matter. It is the equivalent of being on drugs. You must cut off the supply.


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## Marc878

Mike, ideally you should have sent those messages to yourself but I get it. It's shocking. 

Since she told you she wants a divorce you have two options.

Wait and gather evidence or go with what you know. Your kids are old enough to know the truth.

Most will waffle and get stuck in limbo. No one is going to do this for you. The Calvary isn't coming. It's up to you. If you want to try and save the marriage I'd go full exposure now and the shock will probably end the affair. Family, friends, work, etc.

Go dark until she gets back and deal with it rather than let this linger and fester in limbo hell. 

Good luck I hope it works out for you.


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## Lots to Learn

Marc878 said:


> Mike, ideally you should have sent those messages to yourself but I get it. It's shocking.
> 
> Since she told you she wants a divorce you have two options.
> 
> Wait and gather evidence or go with what you know. Your kids are old enough to know the truth.
> 
> Most will waffle and get stuck in limbo. No one is going to do this for you. The Calvary isn't coming. It's up to you. If you want to try and save the marriage I'd go full exposure now and the shock will probably end the affair. Family, friends, work, etc.
> 
> Go dark until she gets back and deal with it rather than let this linger and fester in limbo hell.
> 
> Good luck I hope it works out for you.


100%

It sucks Mike. Read here. Then read some more. Do not surrender you dignity or self respect at this critical moment. She does not respect you. But she can't take that last part away unless you let her. Don't go to limbo hell. 

I'll ask again...what do you want?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mike72

Here's the thing. 2 years ago, there was a young lady at my work who showed alot of interest in me. She was very pretty, and I was tempted. We flirted, sexted each other, sent pictures, but I felt just as guilty as turned on. I told my wife what was going on before it got physical and I made a REAL mistake.

The point is, I got caught up in it, and it just as easily could have gone the other direction. Didn't mean I didn't love my wife. 

What she is doing is wrong, but I don't think it's been going on that long (2 months at the MOST, and I don't think it's been that long), and I already see signs of confusion and remorse.

Not because I'm trying to win her back, but because I'm taking care of myself and doing what I need to do to get better.

Now that doesn't mean I wouldn't mind showing up at her work when this guy walks out....heh.

They work for the State of NJ. Something like 6,000-7,000 people in their building. The court system of all things (judiciary), sheesh....


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## Marc878

Take some time and think this through. 

You did the right thing you told her and cut it off.

Istead of telling you up front and working on it she told you she wants a divorce.

Big difference here.

And they aren't mistakes. All affairs are choices made knowingly and willingly.

A mistake is doing something you didn't mean to do.

Has it turned physical or do you know?????


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## bandit.45

Take the time she is away to look for as much evidence as you can. Search her car, search the computer, search her closet and drawers for sexy clothes or lingerie that she has never worn for you. Look for hotel receipts, look at her checking and credit card histories...


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## Stang197

Mike72 said:


> Here's the thing. 2 years ago, there was a young lady at my work who showed alot of interest in me. She was very pretty, and I was tempted. We flirted, sexted each other, sent pictures, but I felt just as guilty as turned on. I told my wife what was going on before it got physical and I made a REAL mistake.
> 
> The point is, I got caught up in it, and it just as easily could have gone the other direction. Didn't mean I didn't love my wife.
> 
> What she is doing is wrong, but I don't think it's been going on that long (2 months at the MOST, and I don't think it's been that long), and I already see signs of confusion and remorse.
> 
> Not because I'm trying to win her back, but because I'm taking care of myself and doing what I need to do to get better.
> 
> Now that doesn't mean I wouldn't mind showing up at her work when this guy walks out....heh.
> 
> They work for the State of NJ. Something like 6,000-7,000 people in their building. The court system of all things (judiciary), sheesh....


Well with that maybe you would be in a better position than most to forgive her. You need to blow this up with exposure now. Don't think twice. Just do it. Tell everyone close to her. That is your best shot at this.


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## Marc878

If she suggests a separation it's for one purpose.

Full on physical affair. Try the OM out while keeping you as plan B.

Be prepared.

I hope you are as strong as you say. You will need it at this time.


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## JohnA

@Mike72 did you read my posts on your last thread ?


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## bryanp

1. Certainly expose and tell her you know immediately.
2. Get tested for STD's. Apparently she does not care
about your health risk whatsoever.
3. See an attorney to understand your options.

Her engaging in this sexual affair and putting your health
at risk for STD's shows she has very little respect for you or your marriage.
IF YOU DO NOT RESPECT YOURSELF THEN WHO WILL?


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## 225985

Mike72 said:


> Here's the thing. 2 years ago, there was a young lady at my work who showed alot of interest in me. She was very pretty, and I was tempted. We flirted, sexted each other, sent pictures, but I felt just as guilty as turned on. I told my wife what was going on before it got physical and I made a REAL mistake.


OK, so you understand. The attraction/addiction is very powerful. 

How did you end the EA/flirting with the young lady? Did you break all contact with her?


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## GusPolinski

Hmm.

Is he her supervisor?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TDSC60

She is and has been scr^wing her coworker. She tells you she wants a divorce. She tells you she is not in love with you. The "why" to all of this does not matter. What you have done in the past no longer matters. She has checked out.

Discussion over. Divorce


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## Mike72

Lots to Learn said:


> Mike;
> 
> Gently...what do you want?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I want to grow old with her.


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## Mike72

JohnA said:


> @Mike72 did you read my posts on your last thread ?


Yes, but I'm not very bright. It was alot of info to take in.


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## Mike72

blueinbr said:


> Mike72 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the thing. 2 years ago, there was a young lady at my work who showed alot of interest in me. She was very pretty, and I was tempted. We flirted, sexted each other, sent pictures, but I felt just as guilty as turned on. I told my wife what was going on before it got physical and I made a REAL mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so you understand. The attraction/addiction is very powerful.
> 
> How did you end the EA/flirting with the young lady? Did you break all contact with her?
Click to expand...

Yes


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## Mike72

GusPolinski said:


> Hmm.
> 
> Is he her supervisor?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, just a coworker


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## Mike72

TDSC60 said:


> She is and has been scr^wing her coworker. She tells you she wants a divorce. She tells you she is not in love with you. The "why" to all of this does not matter. What you have done in the past no longer matters. She has checked out.
> 
> Discussion over. Divorce


And yet she tells me she still loves me, I'll always be the love of her life.

Look, I'm not gonna beg, I'm better then that, but none of this makes sense. She knows the guy has a reputation as being a player and bouncing from one girl to the next. And in 2-3 weeks, she's head over heals in love with him? Yeah, right....


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## MattMatt

Mike72 said:


> And yet she tells me she still loves me, I'll always be the love of her life.
> 
> Look, I'm not gonna beg, I'm better then that, but none of this makes sense. She knows the guy has a reputation as being a player and bouncing from one girl to the next. And in 2-3 weeks, she's head over heals in love with him? Yeah, right....


Yes. Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt.

BTW, this is the T-Shirt we get to wear. Pretty cool, huh? (No. Not really. Because we aren't fine, really, are we? But we cope.)


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## Marc878

Mike72 said:


> And yet she tells me she still loves me, I'll always be the love of her life.
> 
> Look, I'm not gonna beg, I'm better then that, but none of this makes sense. She knows the guy has a reputation as being a player and bouncing from one girl to the next. And in 2-3 weeks, she's head over heals in love with him? Yeah, right....


Ive seen this many times and it never makes any sense but you are here. Make no mistake about that. Her head may be up her azz but she's there you've seen it with your own eyes. 

Being in denial right now is not going to help you.

Better get moving. 

Sorry for you man


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## GusPolinski

Mike72 said:


> And yet she tells me she still loves me, I'll always be the love of her life.
> 
> Look, I'm not gonna beg, I'm better then that, but none of this makes sense. She knows the guy has a reputation as being a player and bouncing from one girl to the next. And in 2-3 weeks, she's head over heals in love with him? Yeah, right....


Pretty typical for a WW.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lila

Mike72 said:


> Here's the thing. 2 years ago, there was a young lady at my work who showed alot of interest in me. She was very pretty, and I was tempted. We flirted, sexted each other, sent pictures, but I felt just as guilty as turned on. I told my wife what was going on before it got physical and I made a REAL mistake.
> 
> The point is, I got caught up in it, and it just as easily could have gone the other direction. Didn't mean I didn't love my wife.
> 
> What she is doing is wrong, but I don't think it's been going on that long (2 months at the MOST, and I don't think it's been that long), and I already see signs of confusion and remorse.
> 
> Not because I'm trying to win her back, but because I'm taking care of myself and doing what I need to do to get better.
> 
> Now that doesn't mean I wouldn't mind showing up at her work when this guy walks out....heh.
> 
> They work for the State of NJ. Something like 6,000-7,000 people in their building. The court system of all things (judiciary), sheesh....


Did your wife see/keep any evidence of your affair? The reason I ask is that I see a lot of recommendations to expose her affair to all and sundry. Beware. If your wife has held onto or can access your sext messages with your ex affair partner (if the messages were on a cell phone account under her name she can asks for transcripts), then she can hit back and will probably do so harder. 

I would recommend that if you choose to expose, do so to those individuals who have the best chance of helping you keep your marriage. Close friends of the family. Siblings who like you and want to see you stay together. DO NOT expose to her place of work. You don't want her losing her job right before a potential divorce.


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## Stang197

Lila said:


> Mike72 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the thing. 2 years ago, there was a young lady at my work who showed alot of interest in me. She was very pretty, and I was tempted. We flirted, sexted each other, sent pictures, but I felt just as guilty as turned on. I told my wife what was going on before it got physical and I made a REAL mistake.
> 
> The point is, I got caught up in it, and it just as easily could have gone the other direction. Didn't mean I didn't love my wife.
> 
> What she is doing is wrong, but I don't think it's been going on that long (2 months at the MOST, and I don't think it's been that long), and I already see signs of confusion and remorse.
> 
> Not because I'm trying to win her back, but because I'm taking care of myself and doing what I need to do to get better.
> 
> Now that doesn't mean I wouldn't mind showing up at her work when this guy walks out....heh.
> 
> They work for the State of NJ. Something like 6,000-7,000 people in their building. The court system of all things (judiciary), sheesh....
> 
> 
> 
> Did your wife see/keep any evidence of your affair? The reason I ask is that I see a lot of recommendations to expose her affair to all and sundry. Beware. If your wife has held onto or can access your sext messages with your ex affair partner (if the messages were on a cell phone account under her name she can asks for transcripts), then she can hit back and will probably do so harder.
> 
> I would recommend that if you choose to expose, do so to those individuals who have the best chance of helping you keep your marriage. Close friends of the family. Siblings who like you and want to see you stay together. DO NOT expose to her place of work. You don't want her losing her job right before a potential divorce.
Click to expand...

Good points here!


----------



## Lots to Learn

Mike72 said:


> I want to grow old with her.


Well in this case Mike you have one shot at this. 

Expose her, confront her and define the boundaries. You need to confront her so you know what you are dealing with. Is she a u remorseful WW who has checked out? If so hard 180 and file. 

If it's something else it's you or him and she has a lot of work to do. No limbo! No blame shifting! 

If you waffle here or try and nice her back you are done. You need to first confront and be strong in doing so. At the same time define the boundaries and expectations. Until you do so you will not know for sure what you have here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

If you want to grow old with her, then I would 'encourage' the player to dump your WW. Guys like him don't want drama and will move on pretty quickly if the woman they are playing becomes too much of a liability.

So make the A hard for him and let him break your WW's heart. She has to flounder for awhile as she comes out of the fog, but the chances are she will first feel broken and pathetic and then begin to see how ridiculous she has been.

How do you make the A more trouble than it's worth for him? Expose to HR at work. Or expose to his BGF/BW (find out who this is; doubtless there is at least one other poor woman buying his crap.) You don't have to blow it up on FB, etc. Just a strategic blow to his self-preservation cortex.

I would do this and also 180 with her. The more you detach, the better off you are in any scenario that unfolds for you here.


----------



## Marc878

alte Dame said:


> If you want to grow old with her, then I would 'encourage' the player to dump your WW. Guys like him don't want drama and will move on pretty quickly if the woman they are playing becomes too much of a liability.
> 
> So make the A hard for him and let him break your WW's heart. She has to flounder for awhile as she comes out of the fog, but the chances are she will first feel broken and pathetic and then begin to see how ridiculous she has been.
> 
> How do you make the A more trouble than it's worth for him? Expose to HR at work. Or expose to his BGF/BW (find out who this is; doubtless there is at least one other poor woman buying his crap.) You don't have to blow it up on FB, etc. Just a strategic blow to his self-preservation cortex.
> 
> I would do this and also 180 with her. The more you detach, the better off you are in any scenario that unfolds for you here.


Good point here. Exposure on Facebook is pretty low class. It's a Jerry Springer moment. Ugh!!!!


----------



## Mike72

See, that's the thing. She went from wanting a divorce, to wanting a trial separation. She said a divorce is "too permanent". Of course, she wants us to date other people.

I said what if we find out we really want to be with each other? She says then we go to dinner and talk about it.

I think she wants to date other guys, but not let go of me.....just in case.

Has she lost her marbles!?


----------



## 3putt

Marc878 said:


> Good point here. Exposure on Facebook is pretty low class. It's a Jerry Springer moment. Ugh!!!!


Through the OM's FB, it isn't. Exposing these players for what they are to their own friends and family is the best way to run their asses off. And frankly, they have it coming.

And he most definitely needs to blow this up at the workplace if his intentions are to attempt recovery. No way out of this otherwise.


----------



## Lots to Learn

Mike72 said:


> See, that's the thing. She went from wanting a divorce, to wanting a trial separation. She said a divorce is "too permanent". Of course, she wants us to date other people.
> 
> I said what if we find out we really want to be with each other? She says then we go to dinner and talk about it.
> 
> I think she wants to date other guys, but not let go of me.....just in case.
> 
> Has she lost her marbles!?


Mike this is cake eating. She wants you to be Plan B. Do not be Plan B! Back to the comment about self respect. She is your wife for ****s sake!!

Are you willing to let her play the field while she decides that she wants to be with you? This is the Limbo hell I am talking about. You need to take control here. Is her playing the field ok with you? You seem to think she will find her way back to you! This is all just bull****, while she continues her A. 

You need to make a stand. Tell her your boundaries. If she doesn't respect them you need to check out she is done. She does not respect you! Allowing this will show you don't respect yourself! 

Mike I can't say enough how much you need to make a stand here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marc878

Mike72 said:


> See, that's the thing. She went from wanting a divorce, to wanting a trial separation. She said a divorce is "too permanent". Of course, she wants us to date other people.
> 
> I said what if we find out we really want to be with each other? She says then we go to dinner and talk about it.
> 
> I think she wants to date other guys, but not let go of me.....just in case.
> 
> Has she lost her marbles!?


Read back on one of my previous posts. I told you this was coming. Separation is for her to have sex with the player and you become the plan B doormat. Open marriage for her. But you are the safety net.

Did you sign up for another man in your marriage?????

If you agree to this get yourself a loose fitting collar so when she jerks your leash it won't hurt as bad.

If I were you I'd knock her out of the fog quick or file and give her all the space she wanted.


----------



## GusPolinski

Mike72 said:


> See, that's the thing. She went from wanting a divorce, to wanting a trial separation. She said a divorce is "too permanent". Of course, she wants us to date other people.
> 
> I said what if we find out we really want to be with each other? She says then we go to dinner and talk about it.
> 
> I think she wants to date other guys, but not let go of me.....just in case.
> 
> Has she lost her marbles!?


Again, pretty typical for a wayward.

She wants to give this guy a spin for a while (Hell, she might even be hoping to domesticate him), but doesn't want to put all her eggs in that basket.

In keeping you on the line, she relegates you to "Plan B" status so that she can come back to you should her relationship w/ Salty McD*ckhole implode.

Oh, and she mentioned dating other people during the "trial separation" (TBH, it's more of a "trial coupling" w/ OM) so that she can attempt to somewhat legitimize the fact that she's "dating" this guy once you find out about it in a few weeks.

But oops! You found out too early!

ETA: Do you have the username (this will be an email address, and probably a Gmail address) for your wife's Google Play account?


----------



## alte Dame

Mike72 said:


> Has she lost her marbles!?


Actually, yes, she has lost her marbles. This is the 'middle-aged woman who is made to feel sexy again by a POS player' two-step.

The flattery goes directly to her sense of desirability. (They say that men worry about performance and women worry about desirability...)

She is wildly flattered to have him going after her. She's deep in a crazy fog because of it.

I think you should expose him and turn her down on the separation. Say, 'It's so sad, I know, that we are headed for divorce, but there's no reason not to divorce if we want to be with other people.' Make sure you say 'we' here.

You have to be prepared to lose it to save it. I truly believe that this is the case when your WW is hooked on such a completely unrealistic fantasy. If you want her, you have to slap her with the cold reality of divorce.

And expose him! Make his A with her hard.


----------



## Marc878

3putt said:


> Through the OM's FB, it isn't. Exposing these players for what they are to their own friends and family is the best way to run their asses off. And frankly, they have it coming.
> 
> And he most definitely needs to blow this up at the workplace if his intentions are to attempt recovery. No way out of this otherwise.


Hahahaha. >. I kinda like this.


----------



## alte Dame

3putt said:


> Through the OM's FB, it isn't. Exposing these players for what they are to their own friends and family is the best way to run their asses off. And frankly, they have it coming.


This is likely true. It's not a joke that telling his mother that he is a home wrecker would likely run this creep off.


----------



## 3putt

Marc878 said:


> Hahahaha. >. I kinda like this.


It's all part of this:

Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums

I have yet to find a more effective way to blow an affair into oblivion. The problem is that most people don't have the balls to do it the way it's laid out and wind up doing more harm than good.


----------



## the guy

Mike72 said:


> I see. Seems the concensus is to tell her I know ASAP.
> 
> Nor sure about the changing the locks and moving another lady in while she's gone for 2 days. Might have to pass on that one....lol


No....tell the other in her life that are important to her.

Ask them for there support in getting through this adultory.

Inform them that you will not share your wife but need support in confronting her. You are not sure if this is an exit affair or if she needs help and wants to work on the marriage ...either way you want them to support the family unit.

Trust me she will call you 1st before you even have a chance to confront her.

This tactic will go either two ways 1) she has remorse, made bad choices and wants to work it out or 2) she has no remorse , tells you if you hadn't told any one she would have worked it out (all the while continue to phuck around behind your back).

Once you are willling to let her go only then can you do the things to push her away...and only then will you find out how much remorse she has and will do the heavy lifting to keep you. What sucks is more times then not they want their cake and eat it to ...so stop asking her questions and she will tell you no lies.

A lot betrayed want to tell there waywards they want to "work it out' [what that says to the wayward is " no matter how I treat you, I will always be there]


In short nuke this thing and see if your old lady has it in her to own her shyt and except the consequences.

Or.

You can nice your way through this and let her play you...only to find out she is telling you one thing and doing another.


In short expose this to her closest of family and friend....then let her confront you. If she really wants to stay she will face this shame and own it. There is a good chance this is an exit affair so be prepared....either way never cry infront of her and have some self respect....cuz your old lady has zero for you right now!

At the end of the day with out consequences bad behavior continues...lets see how remorseful she really is. Expose this and ask for support from her mom, dad, sisters, brothers, best friends....

Let them all know you love her but will not share her, but need there support in protecting the family unit when you do confront her.


----------



## 3putt

alte Dame said:


> This is likely true. It's not a joke that telling his mother that he is a home wrecker would likely run this creep off.


And not just a homewrecker, but a chronic one. With this asshat, we're not talking about a one off.


----------



## Rugs

Hi Mike, 

Sorry to read of your situation. Congratulations on your sobriety and getting back to meetings. I've never been to AA but I get the vibe that there has to be a lot of self-forgiveness in order to move forward. You've made mistakes and taken responsibility for your actions and also worked on becoming the person you would rather be. 

That's a very difficult thing for anyone to do. Honestly, you deserve honest praise.

I get the feeling you are eager to offer your wife forgiveness if she ends her affair and chooses to work on the marriage.. ??? 

If that is your thinking, it won't work in that manner. As someone before me posted, you can't "nice" someone out of their affair. 

If your wife knows up front, she will be forgiven or get a second chance, she will string this out, and enjoy the attention of two men. 

The previous posters are correct. You really need to lay on the drama and heavy anger and coldness here. I can't tell you how many people hare on this forum are handed this lottery ticket of information and toss it away. Please realize this is a one time shot and also your best chance to save your marriage. 

No Mr. Nice. If you cry, cry in your car or in the shower. Breakdown NOT in front of your wife or kids. Be a hard-ass and blow her fun world apart. 

I would expose this affair. Alte-D is spot on. A "player" type will throw your wife under the bus if there is any drama or his job is in jeopardy or his chances with another woman is at risk. 

And while your "acting mad", BE MAD. I get no sense of real anger for what she has done to you. Affairs are the ultimate betrayal in a marriage. There really is nothing worse. If she has checked out and wants a divorce, give it to her. She spit on your marriage and using you while she does it. Asking you for sex? Gross? I mean, really.....GROSS!! Sloppy seconds, disease....STD's for sure if this guy is as permiscuious as you say. Nasty... 

I don't care how much you love your wife or what a great mother she is or how beautiful she is or how she's put up with all your sh!t........No spouse deserves that kind of total disrespect. 

Cheaters make me sick. Personally, I could not stay with someone who treated me this way but you're not me. Start with not being passive in front of her. You should start by blowing this affair up. DNA your four kids too. Even if they are yours, it will convey to your wife that you have ZERO trust in her. 

Put this affair where it belongs.... ON YOUR WIFE!!


----------



## Marc878

Mike,

You have invaded your poor wifeys privacy by snooping and have discovered her plans to cheat.

NICE JOB!!!!!

I would ask her if she was going to tell the kids her plans or would she rather you do it????

You need to follow the rules of etiquette here.


----------



## jsmart

That text reveals that she had sex with him recently. That's why she feels like everyone can tell because she's "beaming" for him. Adultery has a different effect on most woman than it does on most men. When she's gives herself to another man, she's basically replacing her husband. That's why she's talking about not being in love with you and wanting a divorce. Logic doesn't come into play for a WW. They will grasp at anything to convince themselves that their OM's attention and "love" is true. 

There is no way that a husband of 24 years can compete with the chemical release she's feeling when she with this guy. Read the threads, a WW will disown her own flesh in blood children to be with a stranger she's met on the internet.

Don't for a second convince yourself that your past sexting EA is on the same level. You were NOT replacing your wife. Not giving you a pass but the 2 are on totally different levels. 

I'm telling you, your wife is well along the path of throwing everything overboard for this guy. Of course this player is not looking for a cheating divorcee with 4 kids but your wife will seriously convince herself that there's a possibility. When you put the fear of God into this POS, he will drop her like a hot potato and your wife will be FURIOUS with you. 

Expose to her family & friends. If you want to R, expose at her job. Make freaking embarrassing scene and once again, put the fear of God into that POS. You're fighting for your wife of 24 years & the mother of your 4 kids.


----------



## Marc878

Homework!!!! Read it tonight

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrB..._Guy.pdf/RK=0/RS=ZQGeQCucuJqkzqgdYFndY5Gkn0E-


----------



## 3putt

the guy said:


> No....tewll the other in her life that are important to her.
> 
> Ask them for there support in getting through this adultory.
> 
> Inform them that you will not share your wife but need support in confronting her. You are not sure if this an exit affair or if she wants to work on the marriage ...either way you want them to support the family unit.
> 
> Trust me she will call you 1st before you even have a chance to confront her.
> 
> This tactic will go either two ways 1) she has remorse, mad bad choices and wants to work it out or 2) she has no remorse , tellyou if you hadn't told any one she would have worked it out.
> 
> Once you are willling to let her go only then can you do the things to push her away...and only then will you find out how much she will do the heavy lifting to keep you.
> 
> A lot betrayed want to tell there waywards they want to "work it out' [what that says to the wayward is " no matter how I treat you, I will always be there]
> 
> 
> In short nuke this thing and see if your old lady has it in her to own her shyt and except the consequences.
> 
> Or.
> 
> You can nice your way through this and let her play you...only to find out she is telling you one thing and doing another.
> 
> 
> In short expose this to her closest of family and friend....then let her confront you. If she realyt wants to stay she will face this shame and own it.
> 
> At the end of the day with out consequences bad behavior continues.


I would give her one chance to ends things on her own first, including leaving her job immediately. However, if she hesitates one iota, then expose per Exposure 101 the next day, and I do mean the next day, all in one fell swoop.

That's the key to exposure that most don't realize. For it to be effective it *HAS* to be done all in one day and not trickled out. It has to hit her like a tsunami. Otherwise you're just undermining (read: blowing) what you say you want to accomplish.


----------



## jsmart

Mike72 said:


> See, that's the thing. *She went from wanting a divorce, to wanting a trial separation. She said a divorce is "too permanent". Of course, she wants us to date other people.*
> 
> I said what if we find out we really want to be with each other? She says then we go to dinner and talk about it.
> 
> I think she wants to date other guys, but not let go of me.....just in case.
> 
> Has she lost her marbles!?


Separation is ALWAYS to test drive other man while keeping husband as plan B. She's saying you can date other people so you can't complain when she come out in public with her new man. Shut this $hit down now.

Expose to everyone and then give following options.

A. Cut ALL CONTACT, Quit job, become open book.
B. Divorce. EVERYONE KNOWING WHY. Push for her to leave family home while you stay with kids.


----------



## Marc878

One thing your wife has spent some time effort putting this plan together.

She's pretty devious. Can you live with this long term?

Maybe you are seeing who she really is versus who you thought she was?

Sometimes love can be very blind and we put them on a pedestal thinking we aren't worthy.

I gotta be honest this is pretty Sh!tty of her.

Good luck long term


----------



## the guy

#1 rule make the affair as inconvienent and as unfomfortable to continue.....so 1st expose this to her family [hell take some time and find the other mans family and expose to them 1st.

Shut down all joint accounts.

The last thing you want is a false R that will kill you.....It's better to push away and see if she chases rather then beg, cry and "work things out" only to find out later that the affair never stopped.

Trust me you can not nice your way out of this crap. Granted you don't have to be an @ss whole but you can show her how confident you are by smiling and letting her go....chicks love confident guys.....so raise your attraction level by never begging or crying for this marriage....hell that will push her awy evn more then exposure....at least with expose you know she would do the same thing if the show were on the other foot.

Sir doing nothing only feeds the discontent and lack of respect she already has for you......think about it...what would your old lady do if you were banging a co-worker? once you answer that question then you will know exactly what to do.

Good luck and welcome to the club no one wants to belong to.

BTW d-day +6 years to the day..Feb. 12th 2010 I finaly confronted my cheating wife.


----------



## jsmart

Marc878 said:


> One thing *your wife has spent some time effort putting this plan together.*
> 
> *She's pretty devious.* Can you live with this long term?
> 
> Maybe you are seeing who she really is versus who you thought she was?
> 
> Sometimes love can be very blind and we put them on a pedestal thinking we aren't worthy.
> 
> I gotta be honest *this is pretty Sh!tty of her*.
> 
> Good luck long term


I agree, her plan seems really thought out. OP needs to steal himself for when she comes out in public with POS. She's going full steam ahead. 24 years of marriage and the stability of their 4 kids don't mean squat to her. She's addicted to this guy's taste. 

We've seen these types of threads. Think about Vikings' "Red Flags" thread or Augusto's "I want my husband" thread, or M1ke12 from LS thread "My wife had an affair". All these threads had wives that threw EVERYTHING away to be get buck wild. 

These BHs don't know what we have read. I knew from the 1st post on this thread, that she wanted to run wild. Someone mentioned special needs kids. Not sure if that is the case here but that would be another example of a trend I've notice on LS, of mothers with special needs kids being MORE likely to stray. 

If feel so bad for OP. His wife is about to tear apart such a long marriage and destroy the lives of 4 kids. So tired of seeing so much carnage and it just seems like it's mostly men fighting to hold things together for their kids with mothers wanting to burn it all. no one will bat an eye. She'll be awarded the custody along with cash & prizes. OP will be living on scraps getting to see his kids every other week. So sad.


----------



## tech-novelist

Mike72 said:


> See, that's the thing. She went from wanting a divorce, to wanting a trial separation. She said a divorce is "too permanent". Of course, she wants us to date other people.
> 
> I said what if we find out we really want to be with each other? She says then we go to dinner and talk about it.
> 
> I think she wants to date other guys, but not let go of me.....just in case.
> 
> Has she lost her marbles!?


This is called "cake eating". She wants to be able to fvck someone else and then come home to you.

Don't let her do it.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Mike, I don't get you.

Your wife HAS FVCKED AND IS FVCKING ANOTHER MAN! And then acting all normal around you and even asking you for sex ?

First, why are you not head-exploding, howling-at-the-moon mad ? With her and with the POS ?

Second, how can you possible just let it go on without doing something about it immediately ? Where is your self-respect ?

If she knows you knew about it and did nothing, that will make you go down even further in her eyes. She will lose any last shred of respect there might be for you.

This is not about her and what she gets to do - its about you stepping up and doing what you have to do. 

First of all blow this up! Warn the other mvthafvcka off and threaten exposure at work. Do the same for her.

Separate your finances and file for D immediately (even if you don't have to go through with it later).

Start doing the 180 - to heal yourself not to impress her!

Make sure she understands that she has a monumental task ahead to have even the most remote of chances to repair this.

And most of all - be ready to show her the door should she hesitate in even the slightest. Reclaim and recover yourself!


----------



## Evinrude58

Just wanted to say I wouldn't confront until you have undeniable evidence. But what you've been told is spot-on.

Hell f'ing no you're not down with a "separation". She knows you're not going to date. And she knows she's going to bunny hop her OM every day she's separated.

Divorce and detach. After you've had a year or two to see her for what she really is, see if you want to reconcile. 

Your wife is long gone. Just playing you while she completes her exit strategy. She doesnt have a good one yet because the OM won't let her live with him, because he knows he plans to ditch her pretty soon.

Sadly, once they start humping other men, their feelings for their husband disappear so quickly it's silly. Their feelings never come back. Yeah, they may come back for the security you offer, but not because they love their betrayed spouse.

I'm so sorry. I'm hoping you can find the strength to see what is right and do it in spite of the pain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Evinrude58

Btw, she will dangle the sex in front of your nose just to make sure you're still good for plan b.

She will also try to blame shift this affair all on you. Get ready.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Spotthedeaddog

Do not move out of the house. (and don't be surprised, post reveal day, if she changes locks on you; get local free legal advice now about what to do if she changes the locks on your home)


----------



## Spotthedeaddog

manfromlamancha said:


> Mike, I don't get you.
> 
> Your wife HAS FVCKED AND IS FVCKING ANOTHER MAN! And then acting all normal around you and even asking you for sex ?
> 
> First, why are you not head-exploding, howling-at-the-moon mad ? With her and with the POS ?


Because the reality of ""his" wife is now gone to someone else hasn't sunk in yet


----------



## JohnA

Mike72, you bees to focus on "bread and butter" issues. Why you need to family, friends, and your children expose and why. I shared the need for the 180, and the nuances of how doing so. I discussed her DAVO reaction. You need to get a foundation and plan for a life post divorce. Understand I am NOT telling you to divorce. I am telling you to be prepared no matter what. Right now your children's life is going down the toilet. Your wife is in the fog. Think back to 19 1/2 years ago when you where wet. Your wife struggled but held the family together. You need to step up ad understand one way or another how this plays out. So plan tonight how you maximize your custody. Here is a brief on how NJ Law applies 


the child's wishes or preferences as to custody, provided that he or she is mature enough to make such preferences;
the parent's wishes and preferences as to custody;
the child's needs such as education, food, clothing, shelter, and whether or not the parent is able to provide such needs;
the parents' willingness to accept custody and ability to cooperate with the other parent in making decisions on matters concerning the child;
the child's relationship with his or her parents, siblings, and other members of the family;
the parents' employment and geographical proximity to home;
the nature of parent-child interaction;
the extent and quality of the time spent by the parents' with the child prior to or following the divorce;
any history of domestic violence, child abuse, negligence, or substance abuse; and
the mental or physical health of the parties involved in the proceedings.

Use these guidelines to build a best case senario for yourself. DO NOT ASSIME SHE WOULD BE BETTER. hey she works full time like you. She has every problem being divorced as you.


----------



## JohnA

Mike72, can you sum up the info given and give us an insight on what you are planning to do ? The first step to getting out of the living hell of limbo of the roller coaster. The first step is starting to formulate a plan of action.


----------



## Stang197

Dude everyone is saying to expose this affair. Look at the the amount of advice you have here. Tons of experience. Everyone saying the same thing. Honestly I have read enough and gone through enough to know that exposure is the only way to stop this. Put your foot down and act like a man. Men do not let this go down with out a fight. Little boys cry for their mommy. Men make their own way.


----------



## aine

Mike sorry you are here, your wife is using you as Plan B (her back up plan). 
You said you have made many mistakes too, did that include cheating on your wife? If so combined with your alcoholism I can see how she has got to this place. Is your marriage redeemable, only if you cut out this affair by going scorched earth and you both get serious counselling for all the pain and damage inflicted from your addiction and cheating (you had at least one dalliance you mentioned) as you wife is engaging in a revenge affair to see if you will fight for her or because she has already checked out. 
Did you guys ever get any help for the effects of your addiction?


----------



## JohnA

If yu can avoid exposing for a few days, use it to gather and save info from her phone. Many people on this site haven use dr. Phone with success Wondershare Dr. Fone for iOS - The World's #1 Mobile Data Recovery Software. I used bing with the info you gave and found 
How to Recover Lost/Deleted Photos, Videos from Samsung Galaxy, and how to recover deleted text and photos from samsung galaxy edge 6 - Bing video

If you don't know her password this site might help how to hack samsung galaxy edge 6 - Bing video. Others here might be able to provide better info. 

NJ law does allow for you to record conversation without telling her, you are apart of. Additional info here Recording Phone Calls, Conversations, Meetings and Hearings | Digital Media Law Project. It is important to record conversations from this point forward.


----------



## Lots to Learn

Mike;


What's going on? Talk to us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Hey Mike. Are you okay?


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## Marc878

I hope it works out for you.

Good luck


----------



## D1C

I see why she walks all over you..... You allow it. She wants to put you on hold so she can sow her oats then come back to you and youll just be waiting for her? And thats ok with you? 


Wow man, grow some balls. You can't stop her from banging another dude, but you can choose not to be apart of her actions. Make them have consequences


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## OldWolf57

Mike, don't know if you are still reading, or has confronted.

So I'll just try to lay it out for you.

She has tried him out, and is feeling guilty.
She liked it, wants more, but being around you kills her buzz.
That's why it's gone from D to trial separation, and dating others.

She knows there's no future there, but wants as much as she can get until he tires of her.
From what I've read so far, she is just reacting. You have not noticed her being chained to her phone or any other classic red flags.
Believe me, most cheaters take their phone in the bathroom with them.
They don't take chances by leaving it laying around.

You should take a couple of days to get whatever recovery software program Gus recommend.
After that, ask to use her phone.
Once it's in hand.
Tell her you know, and will now run deleted text software to find out how long it's been going on.

Depending on how she react, will determine your next move.
BUT whatever you do, DO NOT GIVE HER BACK THE PHONE !!!
She will lie and promise to show you, but will then just delete anything on it.

A recent BS here had that happen to him.
Her excuse was she didn't want him to see hurtful text about him.
That was bull, she didn't want him to see how nasty she was getting in the text, or running up on any pic's she sent.

You know, posters are saying you don't seem hurt or mad.
I think you want to reconnect and try out your old EA.
If so, more power to you.
She get's him, you get some strange too.
Then you both come back together.

Gotta say tho, sound like crap to me.


----------



## JohnA

Hi Mike72,

Here is how a player thinks 


Player


My perspective- as a serial cheat. Before I start, I'm no GQ model look alike and I'm not wealthy.

For me, it was always about extra sex. The thrill of the chase and ego boost was a plus, but I just wanted more sex than my wife did. I always loved my wife and certainly never ever wanted to leave her or lose her. Especially not over someone else's wayward wife.

I had a simple method. I used it because it worked. I targeted married women. I figured they were safer for several important reasons.
1- Less likely to be sleeping around with random guys (STDs).
2- Less likely to pull the crazy girlfriend BS and call my wife.
3- In case of an unwanted pregnancy, I had a built in schmuck to pay the tab and would have claimed to have had a vasectomy.

The most important part of being a player is to hide it. I started with shy looks making certain I'd get caught and then doing my best to look embarrassed. If she started to come around more or dress sexier then I'd try a safe compliment. If she called me on my BS (yes, it happened) I simply acted highly offended. After all, I'm a married family man. That usually got me an apology. A few really smart ones just avoided me altogether.

If she accepted the compliment, I knew I had a chance. I never ever wasted time with someone that I didn't want to bed. If the compliment was successful, I simply followed with more as time permitted and just let things develop. Who knew where it would go? When she would speak with me about her frustrations with her husband (they always complained about their husband) I used that to my advantage. If they complained that he didn't do enough with the kids, I was dad of the year. If he didn't help out around the house, I did everything at home so my wife didn't have to. Yes, it was complete BS, but so what. My job was to make them feel special, pretty and needed and to paint the fantasy. After all, my goal was not conversation or friendship. I wanted to score.

Once things progressed and I had to keep it intense unless it was simply a once and done kind of thing. I would do that by pushing her boundaries for sex. Anal, public hook-up whatever. Keep in mind, I'm in it for the sex so I tried for everything I liked and heard more than once statements like... I never even let my husband do that. That was usually with anal, but sometimes public hook-ups also.

I certainly didn't want to be paying for hotel rooms out my pocket. If she wanted to pay, that was fine. Otherwise, we could hook-up anywhere, it didn't matter to me.

I always advised them to keep the secret between us, because it was so special. Actually, I didn't want to get busted. If they got busted, and some did. That was their tough crap to deal with. I certainly never vowed to love/honor/cherish them.

As I look back, I'm stunned at how easy it was and how many fell for my crap. I had some that would try to pull away and I'd feed them the star crossed lovers BS, you know... kept apart by the cruel hand of fate. That worked like magic to seal the deal. I also used things like I think my wife may have cheated on me. Then I'd work in how I got tested for STDs and it was clear and somehow manage to mention my vasectomy (never had one). Understand? I'm safe, you won't catch anything if you sleep with me and I won't get you pregnant. That was the message.

The one thing that sent me running was the fear of getting caught and sometimes I just wanted a quick bang and wasn't in it for a couple of months of an affair. I'm still also amazed by how many didn't see through my crap either. They didn't have to deal with the day to day stresses that adults face with me (finances, mortgages, car payments, child care, time commitments, etc.). With me, it was just fun and sex. The poor bastard at home didn't have a chance once the play was in motion. It also helped me to see him as a douche-bag when his wife whined about him for whatever reason.

I work with a woman that has lost everything over an affair with me. The house, husband, family, etc. It's difficult to see. She hates me now, but I never vowed anything to her or forced her to do anything. That's her tough crap. Her kids are in therapy, their grades tanked and she's struggling financially and the kids blame her, etc. Honestly, I wish she'd quit so I didn't have to see her every freaking day.


I do know a few like me that I consider even worse. They brag and laugh about getting wayward wives to do things and try to get email or text proof to show off. It's pretty easy, just tell her how much he liked doing X with her last night and let her respond. Then they had proof to brag about and trade notes. I didn't do that. I just wanted the sex and avoided the women they talked about. I liked to find the ones who would seem to be the last to ever do anything like this. Goes back to my 3 reasons.

I never flirted with a married woman unless I wanted in her pants. Plain and simple, you do have to hide it so they don't see it coming, but it's really that basic. Other players use different methods, but we all use what works and modify sometimes if we're not progressing to try a different angle. Not all women are the same, and sometimes deviations are required if she'll let you in her pants.

It was never about love, just sex. I sold the fantasy, yes. But that is all it ever was. A fair trade. They were adults and quite frankly should have known better. Am I a predator, I certainly never thought so and I certainly never thought about what would happen to them when we were done. Yes, all my affairs ended. Most stayed married to their H they *****ed about and screwed around on. Therefore, he must not have been that bad. People just get caught up with unrealistic expectations on life I think. For goodness sake, Prince charming is only charming because he wants a blow job.

Before I close, I'll say this as well. An engaged woman would have worked for me also, but I never found one that would go for me. Also, newly married women are much harder to get. I had the best luck with women who had been married for at least several years, throw a kid or two in the mix and they were usually more susceptible to being chased.

It was a fair trade. Attention and compliments for sex.
findingmyway is offline Forward Message*


----------



## JohnA

F-102 posted this about how reconnecting with an ex can lead to adultery. Take a moment to rewrite to reflect your situation. The first time I read F-102 post I realized it could have been right out of the DIY manual for "players 101.



Emotional affair*


Right now, the texts/conversations may very well be just two old friends catching up but soon, if left unchecked, may very well morph into:

Their lives since they parted
Their relationships since they parted*
Their families
Their spouses
You
How you're an excellent father
How you're a great husband
How you're a wonderful guy
Your job
How your job keeps you busy
How your job keeps you away
How she sometimes feels a little lonely when you're away
How she sometimes feels a little overburdened at home
How she sometimes feels a little taken for granted
How she feels that you don't ALWAYS listen to her
How she feels that you don't ALWAYS understand her
How she feels that sometimes you're just "not there" for her
How, okay... you're not ALWAYS such a wonderful guy
How she loved hearing from him again
How she looks forward to his texts/calls/e-mails now
How she feels young again
How she feels appreciated again
How she feels attractive again
How it's so nice to have someone who just LISTENS to her again
How it's been so, so long since you made her feel that way
How her eyes have now been opened
How she now realizes what she truly wants and needs
How she now realizes that you could NEVER give her that
How insensitive you can be some times
How you can be a real jerk sometimes
How she wonders if they would have stayed together
How she now realizes that she never really loved you
How she now realizes that she really loved him all along
How she ever could have fallen for a jerk like you
How you're the biggest a++hole she's ever known
How you're standing in the way of her true happiness
How you ruined her life
How she made a big mistake marrying you
How she made an even bigger mistake letting him go
How now she sees that they were really meant to be together
How she desperately has to get away from you
How she's definitely going to leave you
How she's talking to divorce lawyers
How they're going to live happily ever after...


----------



## JohnA

Additional thoughts and comments 

A player is a predator. Like any predator they are always on the hunt and will stalk and multiple prey for years. The clubs are the final killing field, they never find and score there. Which is why you should never allow one in your life. I've seen more then one thread where a friend could not believe his bud would sleep with his wife. 

A big reason to expose, even if you are divorcing, is to drive him out of your divorce. He has inserted himself not only into your marriage, but your family, and will insert himself into your divorce. He will egg her on, tell her you took advantage of her for decades, she deserves so much more then what is fair in terms of asset division. 

You have not mentioned any Red Flags. A big Red Flag is a new circle of friends or old friends going though a divorce or involved with adultery. You do remember the tale of a fox with the tail?


----------



## JohnA

Mike, 

Without a solid plan B for yourself you will flounder. If you don't have a tough plan in place for divorce your DOA. Study this site: New Jersey Divorce Source: family law, custody, alimony, support, and visitation.


----------



## TaDor

Marc878 said:


> If you want to save your marriage go full exposure to, friends, family, etc before you confront her. That's the best way of stopping this.
> She's already ahead of you. Get your evidence together. Check your phonebill if you want to see how deep and how long this affair has been hoping on.
> 
> Step up or be stepped on.
> 
> She'll be p!ssed off but it's better than you being p!ssed on.


Also, take photos of HER (the WS) phone, so she and anyone else can see ITS HER PHONE and her TEXT messages. (not just a screenshot)


----------



## Thound

Sorry I have not read all of the responses yet. But if you want the OM to vamoose just send him a note letting him know she is all his, and send all the info on your kids so that he will be able to assist your wife with their care and needs. Then sit back and watch how long it takes him to dump her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sports Fan

Mike dont be her Plan B.

She wants a trial seperation so you are out of the way for her to continue her affair in Peace. 

Either she comes to the table and shows true remorce and works on your relationship fully or you serve her with Divorce Papers and be unremorceful about it.

Sorry you are here and i genuinely hope you can man up and do what needs to be done


----------



## Jimhardc

Right now the last thing you need is another woman just take a deep breath and look at what you want with her, with your family and most important with you. Remember your hurting right now and when someone hurts us we want to hurt them back but that's not always the best decision. I don't have all the answers I myself have been in your shoes and wish the pain on nobody. Sorry your going thru this and hope you find peace with yourself. Look through TAM and you will find some good advice.


----------



## Augusto

Ya know from what I have learned in therapy is once a member of the institution flirts with outside parties, nothing is ever the same. The BS feels like the only way they can recover is either change themselves or change their partner. Perception changes of their spouses can be a very powerful combustible fuel to a BS. Had you never did your non-physical affair 2 years ago, you'd not be here today. I am not saying it is your fault, however you did fire the first shot. At least you came clean where as she did not and actually took it up a notch. All I can tell you is tell her to either divorce or fix the marriage. She wants to string you along as a option. Tell there is none and tell her to hurry it up. A therapist 3 years ago told me to just divorce and get lots of P|_|SSY. Wasn't advice for me but perhaps better for you.


----------



## happyman64

Mike

You have received lots of good advice.

And I know you love your wife. But her lack of respect for you, your marriage and herself should tell you just how selfish your WW has become.

I'm big on honesty.

What you should do is pick your wife up at the airport and drop her off at her boyfriends.

Shock her.

Wish her the best. Tell her you love her but have lost all respect for her due to her infidelity.

Let her know you are filing for divorce against your wishes but you have no choice and will not be her Plan B.

Tell her she is free to get used, abused and you will not lie to your kids about her infidelity.

Then kiss her goodbye.

Be your own man. Fix you and continue to work on your issues.

Your wife is s liar. Treat her like one. She wants to date, sure no problem, just not while married to you.

Be very clear with her that you are not a fool and deserve better.

With or without her.

Good Luck

HM


----------



## tonabbz

> If yu can avoid exposing for a few days, use it to gather and save info from her phone. Many people on this site haven use dr. Phone with success Wondershare Dr. Fone for iOS - The World's #1 Mobile Data Recovery Software. I used bing with the info you gave and found How to Recover Lost/Deleted Photos, Videos from Samsung Galaxy, and how to recover deleted text and photos from samsung galaxy edge 6 - Bing video


Thanks for the tip. This may do some good to keep the memory from lost.


----------



## Dyokemm

OP has been posting on SI under a different, but similar name, if any of you are interested in finding out what happened in his situation or how he's doing....and a lot more details about their background.

He is finally filing for D btw.....and his WW really has 'lost her marbles'.


----------



## Voltaire2013

Dyokemm said:


> OP has been posting on SI under a different, but similar name, if any of you are interested in finding out what happened in his situation or how he's doing....and a lot more details about their background.
> 
> He is finally filing for D btw.....and his WW really has 'lost her marbles'.


He's doing as good as one can given the situation. There is also additional background info there, not that it changes the story, but adds depth to things. Be careful with making fantasies realities , it's opening Pandora's box. 

That's why I stick with the midgets/clown thing. Harder to pull off in real life. :grin2:

Cheers,
V(13)


----------



## Dyokemm

Voltaire2013 said:


> He's doing as good as one can given the situation. There is also additional background info there, not that it changes the story, but adds depth to things. Be careful with making fantasies realities , it's opening Pandora's box.
> 
> That's why I stick with the midgets/clown thing. Harder to pull off in real life. :grin2:
> 
> Cheers,
> V(13)


Couldn't agree more with you.

Lots of important background.....I was especially surprised when he shared about half way through his thread there that this was not her first A.....she did this just a couple years into their M.

Took him a long time to stop blaming himself for the A.

If anything, I think his guilty conscience over mistakes he made in the M caused him to cut way too much slack to his remorseless, cake-eating WW.

Glad he has finally had enough.


----------



## GusPolinski

Dyokemm said:


> Couldn't agree more with you.
> 
> *Lots of important background.....I was especially surprised when he shared about half way through his thread there that this was not her first A.....she did this just a couple years into their M.*
> 
> Took him a long time to stop blaming himself for the A.
> 
> If anything, I think his guilty conscience over mistakes he made in the M caused him to cut way too much slack to his remorseless, cake-eating WW.
> 
> Glad he has finally had enough.


Should've dumped her then.

I'm sure he understands that now, though.

Ah, hindsight...


----------



## jsmart

Dyokemm said:


> Couldn't agree more with you.
> 
> Lots of important background.....I was especially surprised when he shared about half way through his thread there that this was not her first A.....she did this just a couple years into their M.
> 
> Took him a long time to stop blaming himself for the A.
> 
> If anything, I think his guilty conscience over mistakes he made in the M caused him to cut way too much slack to his remorseless, cake-eating WW.
> 
> Glad he has finally had enough.


It's very common that BHs downplay the betrayal to blunt the advise they know they're going to get. Or they overstate the problems in the marriage as a way to justify their wife's betrayal.

These are both for ways to justify inaction on their part. If they can state that they brought it on themselves, then their wife's betrayal is understandable. Or not reveal that this is a 2nd or 3rd affair or have evidence that it more wanton than revealed then they can continue to try to R in the face of remorselessness.


----------



## becareful

The OP came here asking for advice, and most here told him to divorce her and expose, but he didn't like what he heard so he left to post over at SI. Unfortunately for him, the people over there also told him the same thing. He kept trying to nice her back. After more abuse and pain, the wife told him she was divorcing him, and only then did he find half a spine to begin the divorce proceeding.

The thing is, he actually had a big role in his wife's affair. He told her how much it turned him on to see her with another man, specifically a black man. He introduced this fantasy into their sex lives and got butt hurt when his wife ran with the idea and made it real. She texted him and said she was going for it, and when he tried to call her back to tell her he didn't approve, she had turned her phone off. After the deed, she texted him and said "too late." His wife is a religious church going woman who cheated on him 20 years ago, but he doesn't describe her as morally bankrupt but that she has a sickness. LOL, I actually don't feel sorry for either one of them. I'd much rather reserve my empathy for faithful husbands and their truly remorseful and repentant wayward wives.

Don't plant a seed into your wife's mind that she should hook up with another man and get upset when she does. Don't open that door and act dumbfounded when she decides to walk through it. Many former wayward wives who got into swinging have warned husbands not to entice their wives this way. If only husbands like the OP had listened.


----------



## Evinrude58

This is real, then? There are men that actually encourage their wives to f black dudes, or any other dudes? I find it hard to believe. The thought repulses me to the point I can't let myself think about it. The grossness and stupidity of it is beyond comprehension. 

If OP did this, he deserves exactly what he got, and I have no respect at all for either of them.
This is insanity in a very disgusting form.


----------



## TDSC60

Be careful what you ask for - you just might get it.


----------



## becareful

These are crazy times we live in where husbands encourage their wives to have sex with other men while they watch, have threesomes and/or open marriages. It is baffling how many men push their wives into this destructive lifestyle, often times neglecting romance and affection until their wives cave. Once that bell is rung, you cannot unring it. Many marriages have ended in divorce because of this but swingers swear their lifestyle doesn't hurt anyone.

There's a post on this forum about a wife moving her lover into their marital bed and her husband went along with it. This is the other opposite extreme where the wife asks her husband permission to take on a lover, and the emasculated doormat husbands reluctantly agree. While link clicking on Youtube, I stumbled on to one video from a female internet radio show host who interviewed some husbands who allowed their wives to take on another lover after the children had gone off to college. One such husband even drove his wife and her lover boy toy to the airport to go on their vacation. They got called out by guys in the comment section (who still had plenty of testosterone pumping through their veins) but those weak husbands had the nerve to defend their actions to let their wives sleep around. It's a crazy world out there!


----------



## JohnA

@becareful not really. I recall reading "the pearl" (title?) written during the victorian age of late 1800. Nothing new here today just more toys and easier means.


----------



## JohnA

Does anyone think Ben Franklin only took a bath with several French lady's at the same time?


----------



## Voltaire2013

I disagree. They shared a fantasy, nothing wrong with that in an active sex life, but she then took the fantasy and made it real with a coworker without any form of consent on his part, as I said it added depth but does not change the actual story. I find it sad that you pass such judgement and blame, my wife, like many wives has a run of the mill 'wife at the hotel bar' fantasy. It's the most I've gotten out of her. But at least I got that. I don't shame her with it, im happy enough just to be in her 'Garden'. 

Of course it would be different if she actually went to a hotel bar and did things, but as we ALL know my wife would NEVER do that. 

I feel pissy now, thanks.

Cheers,
V(13)




becareful said:


> The OP came here asking for advice, and most here told him to divorce her and expose, but he didn't like what he heard so he left to post over at SI. Unfortunately for him, the people over there also told him the same thing. He kept trying to nice her back. After more abuse and pain, the wife told him she was divorcing him, and only then did he find half a spine to begin the divorce proceeding.
> 
> The thing is, he actually had a big role in his wife's affair. He told her how much it turned him on to see her with another man, specifically a black man. He introduced this fantasy into their sex lives and got butt hurt when his wife ran with the idea and made it real. She texted him and said she was going for it, and when he tried to call her back to tell her he didn't approve, she had turned her phone off. After the deed, she texted him and said "too late." His wife is a religious church going woman who cheated on him 20 years ago, but he doesn't describe her as morally bankrupt but that she has a sickness. LOL, I actually don't feel sorry for either one of them. I'd much rather reserve my empathy for faithful husbands and their truly remorseful and repentant wayward wives.
> 
> Don't plant a seed into your wife's mind that she should hook up with another man and get upset when she does. Don't open that door and act dumbfounded when she decides to walk through it. Many former wayward wives who got into swinging have warned husbands not to entice their wives this way. If only husbands like the OP had listened.


----------



## becareful

Voltaire2013 said:


> I disagree. They shared a fantasy, nothing wrong with that in an active sex life, but she then took the fantasy and made it real with a coworker without any form of consent on his part, as I said it added depth but does not change the actual story. I find it sad that you pass such judgement and blame, my wife, like many wives has a run of the mill 'wife at the hotel bar' fantasy. It's the most I've gotten out of her. But at least I got that. I don't shame her with it, im happy enough just to be in her 'Garden'.
> 
> Of course it would be different if she actually went to a hotel bar and did things, but as we ALL know my wife would NEVER do that.
> 
> I feel pissy now, thanks.
> 
> Cheers,
> V(13)


Your wife is different from his wife. One has restraints and the other doesn't. The wife at the hotel bar fantasy is nothing like his fantasy of wanting another man bang his wife as he watches.

If you plant a thought in her mind and water it for years, eventually that seed will take root and germinate. Cogito ergo sum (I think, therefore I am). Thoughts are very powerful motivators. Additionally, she's a very religious church going lady, so the sexual fantasy of being with another man totally goes against the basic tenants of her faith. He introduced a third man into their bedroom for years and his wife nurtured that fantasy. He played with fire and got burned. 

As for the notion that we should not judge lest we be judged, that's a bunch of malarkey and not sound doctrine. We all judge, every single one of us, religious or not. Jesus said if we must judge, to judge righteously. He is the righteous judge and Christians are to be like Him. Don't feel sad for me, as my judgments are not harsh, but fair and righteous.


----------



## eric1

Mike is a really good guy and he knows where and how he ****ed up. He is truly going to be ok.

He is actually helping me help someone from that same wife sharing site that he came from. 

That site is very dangerous. I'll not weigh my opinion on wife sharing or whatever, but what I will say is that the wife sharing sites are 90% made up bulll**** and what happens is that it gives some people with a particular kink a lot of confidence with something that they should not be coincident about. 

The fallout from such a kink can be very extreme. The cheerleaders on that site will often say that many marriages end in divorce anyways. That's a valid point. What they never mention is that, ostensibly atleast, you need to have a good marriage to want to 'share', or atleast feel comfortable sharing . The true tragedy isn't that divorce happens, it's that a good marriage was unnecessarily ruined.


----------



## MattMatt

Wife sharing and partner swapping sites. 

It's were good marriages go to die.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## eric1

MattMatt said:


> Wife sharing and partner swapping sites.
> 
> It's were good marriages go to die.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's amazing that anyone even thinks that it is kind of a good idea.

Like I get that kinks exist, I don't particularly EVER see the appeal in this but I'm old enough to know that folks march to many different beats. But some beats are criminal to explore.


----------



## MattMatt

The late Victoria Woods told the following joke.

She claimed she and a then boyfriend went to a swingers party in which the participants put their keys in a bowl on the table.

They then pulled a different set of keys out.

She said "I don't know who got my moped, but I drove around in that Volvo for years!" 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JohnA

Notbsurevwhy this thread came back to life. He left in Feb and has since started a thread on SI. His wife is in an all out fling which includes bring a daughter to hang out at a race track with him. He has continued to try to nice her back and to the best of my knowedge at least she hasn't tried to move the posm into their home while her husband still lives there.


----------



## eric1

JohnA said:


> Notbsurevwhy this thread came back to life. He left in Feb and has since started a thread on SI. His wife is in an all out fling which includes bring a daughter to hang out at a race track with him. He has continued to try to nice her back and to the best of my knowedge at least she hasn't tried to move the posm into their home while her husband still lives there.




No idea. Tapatalk had it listed as second on my timeline. Ironically I had spoken with him a few days ago so figured I'd chime in.

He's a legit good guy


----------



## JohnA

His story on the other site picks seem to pick up where this one ends. Same children, their ages, their gender, their medical issues, his alcoholism, etc.


----------



## eric1

It's the same guy


----------



## michzz

Not to threadjack, but does anyone else like to stick to this site rather than having to audit two or more forum sites to find somebody's story details?

No thanks.

If the OP wants to update us personally, I'm there to read and/or comment. But the third-hand stuff? No.


----------



## Lostinthought61

michzz said:


> Not to threadjack, but does anyone else like to stick to this site rather than having to audit two or more forum sites to find somebody's story details?
> 
> No thanks.
> 
> If the OP wants to update us personally, I'm there to read and/or comment. But the third-hand stuff? No.


Every now and then i will go over to that site, and every time i just get angry at how emasculated these men are, i honestly think that site is aimed at beta males and this site is the only one in which men bordering on beta come to get a reality check, but as often happens they get scared and run back to the security of living in a society that has emasculated them in the first place, in all likelihood these are men who pee sitting down as instructed by there wives (I know i am going to get flamed for that one).....like Mike, who clearly is afraid of his own shadow. I truly wish them well, but the God honest truth is that they will stay in their beta manhood, with a huge doormat sign on them because they have been trained and condition that way and are afraid to change. And they will justify their actions because of something they think is the greater good, while their balls shrink even more.


----------



## syhoybenden

No, the real beta male site is Marriagebuilders.


----------



## Naku

Xenote said:


> Every now and then i will go over to that site, and every time i just get angry at how emasculated these men are, i honestly think that site is aimed at beta males and this site is the only one in which men bordering on beta come to get a reality check, but as often happens they get scared and run back to the security of living in a society that has emasculated them in the first place, in all likelihood these are men who pee sitting down as instructed by there wives (I know i am going to get flamed for that one).....like Mike, who clearly is afraid of his own shadow. I truly wish them well, but the God honest truth is that they will stay in their beta manhood, with a huge doormat sign on them because they have been trained and condition that way and are afraid to change. And they will justify their actions because of something they think is the greater good, while their balls shrink even more.


It has always seemed to me SI is by and for women and that's why it has the "you're safe..", i.e. won't be criticized/held accountable "...here". It's just a different crowd and a more feminized man will find himself feeling more at home there.


----------



## philreag

I like it here...


----------



## eric1

So speaking about stuff like this, in terms of edging I like to help people with this stuff and that's why I know a lot of these hotwife guys -- it's an extreme version of helping these folks. 

Anyhow, I'm trying to help one out right now. We text maybe 200 times a day and things are coming to a head. The long and the short of it is his wife (predictably...if you know the story) fell in love with her boyfriend, her boyfriend is a phony douche who is "so nice" but is using the age old wedging techniques that we all know so well, and for many reasons he never did anything about it until recently.

He overheard her saying some things about him to her boyfriend and that was the straw that broke the camel's back. He is 100% committed to trying to win his wife back and while some here will have issues with me helping him, I'd like to see if he can.

Her boyfriend is married and he is cheating on her. However up until about a year ago they were in an open relationship. Because they were in an open relationship I am unsure of how to start out the Expose Letter. Usually it's easy to dig in with the sex and then let the details do the work. However in this case the narrative that needs to be (quickly) built is how in love with her he was (saying he couldn't stop thinking about her, that kind of bull****)

I really want to roast this guy. I look at his smiling happy Facebook page and can see right through it. I know the problem is my friend's wife but I have the benefit of perspective and am allowed to see fault across the board 

Oh, he's also been having unprotected sex too, so his wife legit needs to know. Pretty sure there have been other women too.


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## Evinrude58

Good luck with all that. I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for guys who decide they need to have an open relationship with their wife and then get upset when she falls for another guy. It's ridiculous. By telling her you want an open relationship, or her telling the husband, they're basically saying "you're not good enough for me--- I need MORE". Well, you got more, she got more, and she found out that she doesn't even want you AT ALL anymore. I think that's what the husband that asks for an open marriage deserves as a result of their stupidity and discontent. 

I'm not sharing my wife. NOT WITH ANYONE. She's all I need, all I ever want, and I expect it to be the same for her or I'll open the marriage with a divorce.

Open Marriage---- About the same kind of Oxymoron as a SEXLESS Marriage. Neither one makes a darn bit of sense.
JMO


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## Lostinthought61

eric1 said:


> So speaking about betas, in terms of edging I like to help people with this stuff and that's why I know a lot of these hotwife guys -- it's an extreme version of helping these folks.
> 
> Anyhow, I'm trying to help one out right now. We text maybe 200 times a day and things are coming to a head. The long and the short of it is his wife (predictably) fell in love with her boyfriend, her boyfriend is a phony douche who is "so nice" but is using the age old wedging techniques that we all know so well, and for many reasons he never did anything about it until recently.
> 
> He overheard her saying some things about him to her boyfriend and that was the straw that broke the camel's back. He is 100% committed to trying to win his wife back and while some here will have issues with me helping him, I'd like to see if he can.
> 
> Her boyfriend is married and he is cheating on her. However up until about a year ago they were in an open relationship. Because they were in an open relationship I am unsure of how to start out the Expose Letter. Usually it's easy to dig in with the sex and then let the details do the work. However in this case the narrative that needs to be (quickly) built is how in love with her he was (saying he couldn't stop thinking about her, that kind of bull****)
> 
> I really want to roast this guy. My friend is properly working on his wife 100% so he's kind of outsourced this to me, and I relish raining destruction upon this dude. I look at his smiling happy Facebook page and can see right through it. I want these 8 lines to be my opus. This dude needs to be destroyed.
> 
> Oh, he's also been having unprotected sex too, so his wife legit needs to know


Burn baby burn


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## eric1

Evinrude58 said:


> Good luck with all that. I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for guys who decide they need to have an open relationship with their wife and then get upset when she falls for another guy. It's ridiculous. By telling her you want an open relationship, or her telling the husband, they're basically saying "you're not good enough for me--- I need MORE". Well, you got more, she got more, and she found out that she doesn't even want you AT ALL anymore. I think that's what the husband that asks for an open marriage deserves as a result of their stupidity and discontent.
> 
> I'm not sharing my wife. NOT WITH ANYONE. She's all I need, all I ever want, and I expect it to be the same for her or I'll open the marriage with a divorce.
> 
> Open Marriage---- About the same kind of Oxymoron as a SEXLESS Marriage. Neither one makes a darn bit of sense.
> JMO


Not only that, but one of her love languages is being desired. Well, her boyfriend gives it to her in droves and the husband by sake of satisfying her kink has, by definitely, done the opposite.

Listen, I don't agree with him in any way. However I'm the type of guy that if I decide to run a race I ain't doing a 5k through the local zoo. I'm finding something that I can die doing and need to train for a year for. That's just who I am. I like challenges like this.


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## Palodyne

eric1 said:


> I really want to roast this guy. And I relish raining destruction upon this dude. I look at his smiling happy Facebook page and can see right through it. I want these 8 lines to be my opus. This dude needs to be destroyed.


 Well, with Eric on the job, I can see this guys future now.


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## eric1

Lol you have no idea. I have everything down to his ex-wife's new boyfriend's mother's name.

The one thing that I don't have is his current employer. He changed jobs six months ago and since it's rather technical my friend's wife never got the name of it.

With that said he hired a PI yesterday. Weird enough the PI is willing to help out with exposure. Need to dig into that more but this is literally a first for me.

It's in Texas so unfortunately no alienation of affection but his workplace will get a notice of him skipping use and misappropriation of funds.
After his wife kicks him out of course . Got to keep the bastard busy.


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## Jasel

Ya I definitely feel embarrassed reading some of the male BS stories on SI. I think many of them would be better served on TAM. There are a few guys there who make the right moves but they're in the minority. The advice here is more hardline which IMO tends to be more effective.


What frustrates me is how these guys just don't seem to get it even after an extended period of times on these sites. I have to admit if I was married and my wife cheated before I ever heard of TAM I'd probably make many of the wrong moves. But after reading through hundreds of stories in the CWI section on TAM in just a month and a half or so and seeing what works, what doesn't, who tends to recover faster,and who tends to not get screwed over as badly as emotionally difficult as it is to deal with logically speaking it really isn't rocket science and I think I would have a fairly good idea of what steps to take.

But it is sad and frustrating watching BS flouder for months when many of the answers of what they should do are a few mouse clicks away.


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## Dyokemm

Jasel said:


> Ya I definitely feel embarrassed reading some of the male BS stories on SI. I think many of them would be better served on TAM. There are a few guys there who make the right moves but they're in the minority. The advice here is more hardline which IMO tends to be more effective.
> 
> 
> What frustrates me is how these guys just don't seem to get it even after an extended period of times on these sites. I have to admit if I was married and my wife cheated before I ever heard of TAM I'd probably make many of the wrong moves. But after reading through hundreds of stories in the CWI section on TAM in just a month and a half or so and seeing what works, what doesn't, who tends to recover faster,and who tends to not get screwed over as badly as emotionally difficult as it is to deal with logically speaking it really isn't rocket science and I think I would have a fairly good idea of what steps to take.
> 
> But it is sad and frustrating watching BS flouder for months when many of the answers of what they should do are a few mouse clicks away.


The biggest mistake I see so many BH's over on SI make, and its something that is corrected/ warned against far less there than here on TAM, is how they have DDay and then IMMEDIATELY jump into forgiveness and wanting to R....often before they even know the entirety of their WW's betrayal.

I see some variation of 'All I want is for my M to go back to the way it was before this happened' on almost every thread....and very few posters who try to knock the BH out of this doormat, begging, willing to rugsweep mentality.

And often, those posters who do try to wake the BH up are jumped on by the 'weakling' crowd for being overly harsh or critical to the poor soul who is crushed (yes)....but making ALL the wrongs moves if he truly wants to reconcile his M.

It can be depressing to read.


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## Plan 9 from OS

Dyokemm said:


> The biggest mistake I see so many BH's over on SI make, and its something that is corrected/ warned against far less there than here on TAM, is how they have DDay and then IMMEDIATELY jump into forgiveness and wanting to R....often before they even know the entirety of their WW's betrayal.
> 
> I see some variation of 'All I want is for my M to go back to the way it was before this happened' on almost every thread....and very few posters who try to knock the BH out of this doormat, begging, willing to rugsweep mentality.
> 
> And often, those posters who do try to wake the BH up are jumped on by the 'weakling' crowd for being overly harsh or critical to the poor soul who is crushed (yes)....but making ALL the wrongs moves if he truly wants to reconcile his M.
> 
> It can be depressing to read.


Isn't the end goal of a place like SI to be very pro reconciliation? The founders of the sight are a reconciled couple I believe, so the culture would largely build off the values of the founders. I'd guess different boards have different dynamics.


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## bigtone128

Well, I went through something similar Mike72. Now I will tell you nothing you could have done would have changed her or what happened. I am sorry. I was married 27 years to a women I never dreamed would have an affair. But she did. I always thought she would put family first - but what happens is they ''change'' their notion of family - i.e., a family without you in it. I went to AA all that time and she chose to pick up with an active user and alcoholic. So I know it has NOTHING to do with anything you have said or done. She has poor boundaries PERIOD. She chose to throw her family under the bus to doink some guy. I agree with what everyone says here - you can trust their advice. For me, I did not fight for my ex. as once someone I am married to decides to doink someone else - see you later. You are in for a short term rough ride. She will blame you for everything. She will drudge up anything from your past. ALL to justify her own actions. Let her go. My ex is living with a drunken drug addict in the basement of her sisters house and keeps him secret from our children - like she is fooling someone. I have long since moved on. And and someone on here said to me once - you will wake up someday and be grateful this happened. I thought they were crazy. But I am. I got rid of a non-committal deceptive woman who was dragging me down. And trust me brother - if you are alcoholic when you met - you did not attract the healthiest of women - all the healthy women went looking elsewhere. Consider yourself lucky. Would you really want a douche who is enjoying someone calling her ''sweet ass''. I say ditch the b****!


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## wmn1

Palodyne said:


> Well, with Eric on the job, I can see this guys future now.


that is so true and so funny


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## wmn1

bigtone128 said:


> Well, I went through something similar Mike72. Now I will tell you nothing you could have done would have changed her or what happened. I am sorry. I was married 27 years to a women I never dreamed would have an affair. But she did. I always thought she would put family first - but what happens is they ''change'' their notion of family - i.e., a family without you in it. I went to AA all that time and she chose to pick up with an active user and alcoholic. So I know it has NOTHING to do with anything you have said or done. She has poor boundaries PERIOD. She chose to throw her family under the bus to doink some guy. I agree with what everyone says here - you can trust their advice. For me, I did not fight for my ex. as once someone I am married to decides to doink someone else - see you later. You are in for a short term rough ride. She will blame you for everything. She will drudge up anything from your past. ALL to justify her own actions. Let her go. My ex is living with a drunken drug addict in the basement of her sisters house and keeps him secret from our children - like she is fooling someone. I have long since moved on. And and someone on here said to me once - you will wake up someday and be grateful this happened. I thought they were crazy. But I am. I got rid of a non-committal deceptive woman who was dragging me down. And trust me brother - if you are alcoholic when you met - you did not attract the healthiest of women - all the healthy women went looking elsewhere. Consider yourself lucky. Would you really want a douche who is enjoying someone calling her ''sweet ass''. I say ditch the b****!


good job, Bigtone. Sorry it happened to you, kudos to stepping to the plate and not putting up with that BS and making a better situation for yourself


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## wmn1

Dyokemm said:


> The biggest mistake I see so many BH's over on SI make, and its something that is corrected/ warned against far less there than here on TAM, is how they have DDay and then IMMEDIATELY jump into forgiveness and wanting to R....often before they even know the entirety of their WW's betrayal.
> 
> I see some variation of 'All I want is for my M to go back to the way it was before this happened' on almost every thread....and very few posters who try to knock the BH out of this doormat, begging, willing to rugsweep mentality.
> 
> And often, those posters who do try to wake the BH up are jumped on by the 'weakling' crowd for being overly harsh or critical to the poor soul who is crushed (yes)....but making ALL the wrongs moves if he truly wants to reconcile his M.
> 
> It can be depressing to read.



very well put and agreed. Especially the last paragraph. I like SI and they have some very good people over there but too much friendly fire sometimes


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