# Wife said yesterday she is no longer in love



## icecube316 (Nov 29, 2011)

I've read through the posts on the board, and some advice was helpful and some not. I'm lost. I was told yesterday by my wife of 10 years she wants a divorce. She said we are best friends. She said she tried to love me but doesn't. This all came out of no where (well to me). We never fight. Ever. She said I am controlling, which I never thought about, but I guess I can be. I am not abusive at all. But I do probably call too much and I do like to know where she is. She said I don't have too many issues, just a few things I need to change, but it seems like she is just done. She doesn't want to allow me to change, or go to counceling. We have a 7 year old daughter who I can't begin to think of not seeing every morning. I asked her what she would feel if I saw another girl and she said it would be fine if I was happy, which killed me. I don't feel the same. Looking back I can see a lot of the things I did that were neglective, not paying attention. I have been miserible at work and I am kind of unhappy, and I think it brought her down. I'm hopeless, but wondering if there is anything I can do. I mean I see so many guys cheating and being mean and they get try after try. I am a good dad and I try to be a good husband, it stinks I have to be dumped.


----------



## blissful (Nov 14, 2011)

would she agree to go to counselling?


----------



## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

icecube316 said:


> I've read through the posts on the board, and some advice was helpful and some not. I'm lost. I was told yesterday by my wife of 10 years she wants a divorce. She said we are best friends. She said she tried to love me but doesn't. This all came out of no where (well to me). We never fight. Ever. She said I am controlling, which I never thought about, but I guess I can be. I am not abusive at all. But I do probably call too much and I do like to know where she is. She said I don't have too many issues, just a few things I need to change, but it seems like she is just done. She doesn't want to allow me to change, or go to counceling. We have a 7 year old daughter who I can't begin to think of not seeing every morning. I asked her what she would feel if I saw another girl and she said it would be fine if I was happy, which killed me. I don't feel the same. Looking back I can see a lot of the things I did that were neglective, not paying attention. I have been miserible at work and I am kind of unhappy, and I think it brought her down. I'm hopeless, but wondering if there is anything I can do. I mean I see so many guys cheating and being mean and they get try after try. I am a good dad and I try to be a good husband, it stinks I have to be dumped.


1. Let her go
2. Sincere apology in your part of her disconnect. Write the apology out and give it to her.
3. Let her know that you are on a journey to become a "better man" for yourself and thank her for the years you shared. Tell her you want her to be happy.
4. Let her know she is always welcome to reconsider and that you would prefer to keep the family intact but you respect her wishes if thats what she really wants.
5. Ask her if its ok to check in with her about discoveries you found along the way...Tell her and do them. If she says no..give her a card she can use anytime to get an update.
6. Learn all you can about women's needs
7. Be upbeat and happy...NOT NEEDY.
8. Snoop for an affair
9. If affair found...immediate 180
10. Give it time

11. If she is still around at six months... start dating her again for her to get to know the new "improved" you
12. Let her come back to you.

Good luck! Let her do all the work for the divorce... don't assist her. Give her time to reconsider..she might


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

icecube316 said:


> I've read through the posts on the board, and some advice was helpful and some not. I'm lost. I was told yesterday by my wife of 10 years she wants a divorce. She said we are best friends. She said she tried to love me but doesn't. This all came out of no where (well to me). We never fight. Ever. She said I am controlling, which I never thought about, but I guess I can be. I am not abusive at all. But I do probably call too much and I do like to know where she is. She said I don't have too many issues, just a few things I need to change, but it seems like she is just done. She doesn't want to allow me to change, or go to counceling. We have a 7 year old daughter who I can't begin to think of not seeing every morning. I asked her what she would feel if I saw another girl and she said it would be fine if I was happy, which killed me. I don't feel the same. Looking back I can see a lot of the things I did that were neglective, not paying attention. I have been miserible at work and I am kind of unhappy, and I think it brought her down. I'm hopeless, but wondering if there is anything I can do. I mean I see so many guys cheating and being mean and they get try after try. I am a good dad and I try to be a good husband, it stinks I have to be dumped.


Sounds like she has found someone else. In that case one would have to stop that affair before you can work on the marriage. Typically in these situations men will start blaming themselves and / or focusing on the blame that comes from the wife. We all have things we need to work on. 

The best friend thing is common. Very often when a WS has found another to be "in love" with. Married Man Sex Life is an interesting resource about this type of thing. Also take a look at the Men's section as it relates to manning up and being a Nice-Guy. See how much of this relates to your situation. 

That said, it sounds like she may be done. Did this come out of the blue or has there been a dialogue before this?


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

icecube316 said:


> I asked her what she would feel if I saw another girl and she said it would be fine if I was happy, which killed me.


She is saying that having a relationship outside of marriage is OK if it makes you happy. This coupled with the you are "controlling" comment and her finding fault with you out of the blue is a clear red flag that she already has a lover.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

TRy said:


> She is saying that having a relationship outside of marriage is OK if it makes you happy. This coupled with the you are "controlling" comment and her finding fault with you out of the blue is a clear red flag that she already has a lover.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## scione (Jul 11, 2011)

You wife is having an affair. 

You said you called too much and wanting to know where she is. That's because your gut instinct told you that something is up. When she said she tried to love you, it's because she loves somebody else and try to see if she can feel the same for you. She doesn't care if you see another girl because she's seeing another man. No woman would just, out of the blue, wanting a divorce. She won't go to counseling because she found her new love and doesn't want to continue with the old one.

You, now, have to stop the affair or leave her.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

TRy said:


> She is saying that having a relationship outside of marriage is OK if it makes you happy. This coupled with the you are "controlling" comment and her finding fault with you out of the blue is a clear red flag that she already has a lover.


yes, I agree with this. I generally don't like to generalize (well, ok maybe a little) but your W is following the cheater's script.

My W followed the exact same script and also said the EXACT same things. I too was a good dad and tried to be a good husband and man, but wasn't really given a chance, the jerks get second chances because they are selfish and there is some sort of primitive attraction that women find in that.

icecube, you need to stop her affair first and that means stop accepting her excuses, you are not controlling you have been trying to make it work, any other problems she has are HER problems and her way of dealing with them has been infidelity. Start looking through her cellphone logs, computer history and find more evidence because when you start to learn that she has been leading a sceond life she will only feed you tidbits of truth (you will never get the whole truth from her, you will have to find it yourself).

In my case, my W was done and checked out AND having her affair, when I found out she trickle-truthed me, blameshifted and started rewriting our history. It took awhile for me to sort through it all but I realized that she wasn't able or willing to check back in. Once you bust up your W's affair then you can gauge what she is capable of, then decide if you want to offer her reconciliation or not.

I found this really helpful:
Betrayed Spouse Bill of Rights « betrayed but recovering

You will get lots of advice on this thread about the 180, surveillance techniques such as VAR under her car seat, hiring a PI etc follow this advise if you can't get to the truth for yourself. And like I said, she will throw all kinds of dirt at you, when you realize this is part of the script you will see her words for what they are: her pathetic attempt at justifying her immoral choice in her own mind. Rise way above that, get a lawyer to draft up a separation agreement which you will serve to her if she wavers any more from her committment to the marriage...


----------



## icecube316 (Nov 29, 2011)

She is not having an affair. We are home bodies, she works and then comes home. I asked her that because when I was trying to land her years ago, she didn't show a ton of interest and I went on a blind date. That drove her nuts and she decided she wanted me. So I asked her to see if she would feel that same reaction, or if she wouldn't care. 

We started talking about things in September, had a few nice dates, but she didn't feel the passion I did. She wants me in her life. She doesn't want an intimate/emotional relashionship, so she said. But that was the first time she ever said that. Our kid is a brat. I love her to death but she drains us. My job is tough. I haven't shown the intamacy I should have. But I didn't think it was a deal breaker.

If she goes out its once a month and with family and I know where she is. I just want to know when she is coming home. I am a planner and she isn't.


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Lon said:


> Start looking through her cellphone logs, computer history and find more evidence because when you start to learn that she has been leading a sceond life she will only feed you tidbits of truth (you will never get the whole truth from her, you will have to find it yourself).


When your wife checks out, there is always someone taking your place. She did not suddenly decide to live in an emotional vacuum. This other person is not always a male and the outside relationship is not always physical, but it always exists and it is always emotional. Someone is replacing her emotional connection with you.

My wife left and returned and we are in counseling. Yesterday in our counselor's office, she was still misrepresenting her situation, trying to protect the guilty and blame culpable accessory persons.

If you can upgrade her phone or computer or both with something newer and better, do this and make sure you have back doors for yourself to review her communications.


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

icecube316 said:


> I was told yesterday by my wife of 10 years she wants a divorce
> We never fight. Ever
> We have a 7 year old daughter who I can't begin to think of not seeing every morning


Ask your wife if you can keep the house and keep sole custody of your daughter. Let us know what she says


----------



## icecube316 (Nov 29, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Ask your wife if you can keep the house and keep sole custody of your daughter. Let us know what she says


She doesn't care about the house and she would let me see our daughter any time I want. She just isn't "in love". And hasn't been. She doesn't want any money. I wish it were all that easy.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

icecube316 said:


> She is not having an affair. We are home bodies, she works and then comes home. I asked her that because when I was trying to land her years ago, she didn't show a ton of interest and I went on a blind date. That drove her nuts and she decided she wanted me. So I asked her to see if she would feel that same reaction, or if she wouldn't care.
> 
> We started talking about things in September, had a few nice dates, but she didn't feel the passion I did. She wants me in her life. She doesn't want an intimate/emotional relashionship, so she said. But that was the first time she ever said that. Our kid is a brat. I love her to death but she drains us. My job is tough. I haven't shown the intamacy I should have. But I didn't think it was a deal breaker.
> 
> If she goes out its once a month and with family and I know where she is. I just want to know when she is coming home. I am a planner and she isn't.


She very well could be having an EA with someone from work. Also it is not uncommon for a WS to make time for the affair. We see this time and again. Spouses claiming thier WS would not have time for an affair. Many have special affair phones and email accounts.

Anyway checkout www.marriedmansexlife.com. Also follow with the man-up articles.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm not jumping on the she's a cheater bandwagon... at least not yet anyway.

Let's look at what you heard her tell you.

1) You're controlling

2) You don't have too many issues, just a few things you need to change

3) She doesn't want to go to counseling

You say you don't ever fight. While that sounds good on the surface, it seems to me that you both don't talk to one another either. Your life may have been a series of routines... work, your child, work... no checking in with or connecting with one another. Over long periods of time, this will cause a disconnect. Try not watering a plant for several weeks and see what you got left. 

You admit to being unhappy with your work. When have you talked about that with her? You say your child is demanding (most kids are) which most likely drains you both as well emotionally. What's your sex life like? When was the last time you went on vacation with your wife? Dinner out? Have you been on any dates in the last few months? 

If you've neglected to connect with your wife, I can see why she said what she said. In her mind and heart she probably gave you a timeline to see an improvement before she made the decision to tell you she wants out. It definitely doesn't come from nowhere. In that timeline she probably has done things you've ignored or dismissed which only affirmed her feelings of wanting to leave you.

My advice is to find out from her when exactly she started feeling disconnected from you. You can piece the rest together then. You'll start recalling opportunities you missed with her and then you will understand a little better why she's feeling like this. She may not want to tell you or talk to you about it... and if that's the case, you have to let her go. It's going to be hard and will hurt like hell, but if she's determined to shut the door on you, it makes no sense trying to force an issue. She already sees you as controlling. Not a good characteristic to have if you want a reconciliation. It doesn't give her much of a voice or say, it's just you doing all the driving, and that's not obviously what she wants.


----------



## icecube316 (Nov 29, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> I'm not jumping on the she's a cheater bandwagon... at least not yet anyway.
> 
> Let's look at what you heard her tell you.
> 
> ...


I am all ready recalling opportunities I missed. I guess I all ready know why she is feeling the way she is. And I know I can make her happy. I just don't know if I have another chance left, if this was a wake up call that I need to start showing affection, or if she is just done. We don't communicate about this stuff enough. We have, but I never took things seriously. I need to back off and give her space.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> I am all ready recalling opportunities I missed. I guess I all ready know why she is feeling the way she is. And I know I can make her happy. I just don't know if I have another chance left, if this was a wake up call that I need to start showing affection, or if she is just done. We don't communicate about this stuff enough. We have, but I never took things seriously. I need to back off and give her space.


Knowing what went wrong is half the battle. You need to tell her you understand and tell her why. It's time to humble yourself and ask if it's any way possible that you could get another crack at making it right. She just may need time to process what you've said and then decide if it's what she really wants in the long run. In the meantime you need to work on yourself. Show her you can be the man she wants to be in love with. That doesn't mean asskissing, that means doing the things you KNOW you could improve on or change because you know it will improve or change the direction of your relationship as well as improve yourself. You can't do it all just for her, it has to be for you both.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> If you've neglected to connect with your wife, I can see why she said what she said. In her mind and heart she probably gave you a timeline to see an improvement before she made the decision to tell you she wants out. It definitely doesn't come from nowhere. In that timeline she probably has done things you've ignored or dismissed which only affirmed her feelings of wanting to leave you.


Yes, adultery or not she is certainly disconnected, part of reconnecting is finding out where it went off track and repair the damage, but keep in mind you are not the sole one to accept blame, it is up to both of you to work on it. If there are things you've neglected then stop neglecting, but if she is checked out nothing you do will change her mind, if she is asking to go, no matter why, the only answer is to let her go. I think the cheating red flags were pointed out so strongly to you in order to keep you from blaming yourself for all of this, and if there is adultery no amount of reflection or hard work will provide a satisfactory answer for you.

What about YOUR needs through all of this? If she was checked out she wasn't putting in the effort to make the marriage work... you are allowed to have needs too, you say you are unhappy and miserable well a lot of that has to do with the state of your marriage, so don't feel for a second that you are the only one that was failing the relationship.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

icecube316 said:


> She is not having an affair. We are home bodies, she works and then comes home...
> 
> ...I just want to know when she is coming home. I am a planner and she isn't.


I am also a little confused by this part of your comment... in your first post you said "...But I do probably call too much and I do like to know where she is."

If you know where she is then why are you calling her to find out where she is all the time? If you are incessantly bothering her at work I can understand why she is annoyed, but something isn't adding up in your posts.

ps I'm not trying to pick you apart, I just want you to know I'm listening to your story - I was in your shoes once (hopefully not the exact same ones) and having people to talk this with on this site made a big difference to help me recover.


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

icecube316 said:


> She doesn't care about the house and she would let me see our daughter any time I want.


Sorry, I thought you said you couldn't begin to think of not seeing your daughter every morning. I know I couldn't. I my wife wanted to leave me with the house and kids I would have to give her offer serious consideration


----------



## icecube316 (Nov 29, 2011)

Lon said:


> I am also a little confused by this part of your comment... in your first post you said "...But I do probably call too much and I do like to know where she is."
> 
> If you know where she is then why are you calling her to find out where she is all the time? If you are incessantly bothering her at work I can understand why she is annoyed, but something isn't adding up in your posts.
> 
> ps I'm not trying to pick you apart, I just want you to know I'm listening to your story - I was in your shoes once (hopefully not the exact same ones) and having people to talk this with on this site made a big difference to help me recover.


I appreciate the help. Don't worry about picking me apart. I don't think I really described it right. My wife is very close with her family. She is the type that is late for everything. I am the type that is early for everything. So she may go shopping with her mother, and say she'll be home at 3. Well, if its 5 and she isn't there I call, and if I don't get an answer I call again. Now these are times when she drives and her mothers car is in front of my house, she isn't with another guy. They galavant and are always late. I am so OCD about the fact that she says she'll be home and is late that I will call and it just aggrevates her. And a lot of times its a call to see what she wants to do for dinner, or if she ate while she is out. But over 10 years, its gotten to be too much. I'll be calling to find out what time she is going to be home.

I don't call her at work. She works in a dental office and can't take calls.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Lon said:


> Yes, adultery or not she is certainly disconnected, part of reconnecting is finding out where it went off track and repair the damage, but keep in mind you are not the sole one to accept blame, it is up to both of you to work on it. If there are things you've neglected then stop neglecting, but if she is checked out nothing you do will change her mind, if she is asking to go, no matter why, the only answer is to let her go. I think the cheating red flags were pointed out so strongly to you in order to keep you from blaming yourself for all of this, and if there is adultery no amount of reflection or hard work will provide a satisfactory answer for you.
> 
> *What about YOUR needs through all of this? If she was checked out she wasn't putting in the effort to make the marriage work.*.. you are allowed to have needs too, you say you are unhappy and miserable well a lot of that has to do with the state of your marriage, so don't feel for a second that you are the only one that was failing the relationship.


While I believe that it takes two to tango, we're only getting the story from one side. To become checked out, there have been a series of things that happened first, and that's where I think the reflections should start. I don't think adultry should be ruled out, but IMO I don't think that's the case here. 

I can relate to his wife in this situation. I've been in a position where she is... wanting out. I tried to tell my spouse over and over again what was wrong, but he didn't listen... didn't take me seriously, the whole nine. I felt ignored, dismissed, as a person who had very little priority in his life over time, and that caused me to feel disconnected and 'checked out'. I gave myself a timeline in which I would continue in this misery and then I would make a hard decision. He never got it and lost me in the process...even after telling him I wanted out he still wouldn't budge. I would have been willing to work on a reconciliation had he told me he wanted it to work and showed me the same, but he was a stubborn mule of a man who wouldn't budge an inch. His loss. I don't feel an ounce of regret over my decision to leave. 

IMO women leave for 3 reasons:

1) they found someone else

2) they feel ignored, unloved or taken for granted

3) they're selfish and want to only be responsible for themselves


----------



## icecube316 (Nov 29, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> I can relate to his wife in this situation. I've been in a position where she is... wanting out. I tried to tell my spouse over and over again what was wrong, but he didn't listen... didn't take me seriously, the whole nine. I felt ignored, dismissed, as a person who had very little priority in his life over time, and that caused me to feel disconnected and 'checked out'. I gave myself a timeline in which I would continue in this misery and then I would make a hard decision. He never got it and lost me in the process...even after telling him I wanted out he still wouldn't budge. I would have been willing to work on a reconciliation had he told me he wanted it to work and showed me the same, but he was a stubborn mule of a man who wouldn't budge an inch. His loss. I don't feel an ounce of regret over my decision to leave.
> 
> IMO women leave for 3 reasons:
> 
> ...


I am certain it is number 2. There were times when hints were dropped at showing more affection, but I didn't. But I always am nice, I do things like cook and clean to show affection, but that wasn't what she wanted. I think I took her for granted too. She told me she thinks I am a good husband and I don't treat her bad. I guess I really didn't know how important things like kissing out of the blue were. I just can't believe we could be going from what I thought was an ok relationship with a little boredom to her not wanting me around. I just don't feel the same way about her. It really stinks.


----------



## icecube316 (Nov 29, 2011)

So basically it boils down to I am controlling and I take her for granted. Now I can fix not being controlling. That I can work on. But that lack of passion is a killer. As it stands we are staying together through the holidays for the sake of our daughter, but how do I connect emotionally when I am not allowed to touch her? Is it just sharing conversations or am I just screwed?


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

icecube316 said:


> I am certain it is number 2. There were times when hints were dropped at showing more affection, but I didn't. But I always am nice, I do things like cook and clean to show affection, but that wasn't what she wanted. I think I took her for granted too. She told me she thinks I am a good husband and I don't treat her bad. I guess I really didn't know how important things like kissing out of the blue were. I just can't believe we could be going from what I thought was an ok relationship with a little boredom to her not wanting me around. I just don't feel the same way about her. It really stinks.


The Five Love Languages is a book that would really help you understand her needs better. What you think is loving her, isn't loving her how SHE would like to be loved. 

I'm sorry you're going through this, I really am. This has to be tough, but with each post I think you're getting clearer on what's going on with her. It really does help to know the 'why' of things in order to tackle the problem fully and solve it.

I think at some point you checked out on her a while back. You may not have realized it, but by admitting how unhappy you are I'm thinking it's been going on for a while and you just didn't communicate that to her effectively.


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

icecube316 said:


> So basically it boils down to I am controlling and I take her for granted. Now I can fix not being controlling. That I can work on. But that lack of passion is a killer. As it stands we are staying together through the holidays for the sake of our daughter, but how do I connect emotionally when I am not allowed to touch her? Is it just sharing conversations or am I just screwed?


The Relationship Cure by John M. Gottman on Audio Download, Audio Cassette


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

icecube316 said:


> So basically it boils down to I am controlling and I take her for granted. Now I can fix not being controlling. That I can work on. But that lack of passion is a killer. As it stands we are staying together through the holidays for the sake of our daughter, but how do I connect emotionally when I am not allowed to touch her? Is it just sharing conversations or am I just screwed?


Talking brings about intimacy for women. You can't go right to the touching if you haven't communicated with one another. We don't work that way. Get in my head first, then I'll be willing to be open to being physical. Hell I may even initiate the touching if you really are connecting with me mentally. After such a long time of lack, it's going to take a while to bring it back.

Would you bake a cake without pre-heating the oven first? Your wife is a cold oven or stove right now. The flame is out and it's been that way for what I estimate to be several months, maybe she's been this way for a couple years now. Only you know how long. It took a lot for her to become ambivalent toward you, so you definitely have your work cut out for you.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> IMO women leave for 3 reasons:
> 
> 1) they found someone else
> 
> ...


And usually it so happens to be all three at once.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Lon said:


> And usually it so happens to be all three at once.


Usually?? Well there always are exceptions. In my experience I felt only #2 and that was plenty for me.


----------



## icecube316 (Nov 29, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> Usually?? Well there always are exceptions. In my experience I felt only #2 and that was plenty for me.


I know its number 2. I kind of thought I did things that were more annoying than hurting her as badly as they were. If I knew I was making her feel the way I do now then this would have never happened. 

When you were feeling number 2 did your husband reach out and try to talk to anyone for advice? Is this a good start? I really care, and I think while its not easy, that has to be a starting point. Or is that way too hopeful?


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> When you were feeling number 2 *did your husband reach out and try to talk to anyone for advice?* Is this a good start? I really care, and I think while its not easy, that has to be a starting point. Or is that way too hopeful?


No. Which is why I say it's a great start that you got the wake up call and aren't continuing on like everything is hunky dorey. Instead of seeing what she's told you as more of the same, you are finally realizing the gravity of the situation and see how much you've contributed to her feeling this way. It's not all on you by any means, but I think you understand where I'm coming from.

With me, I tried telling him directly. Then that didn't work, so I left notes, which for some reason he took offense to. My position was, well I tried direct communication, that didn't produce results, so now I'm writing it down... he would read them and throw them out, sulk for several days, withdraw from me, then he would go on like I said nothing. After the notes didn't work, I suggested counseling. He didn't want to go, didn't tell me that, but wouldn't show up for the first session. 

After about 8 or 9 months of this, I grew weary. He spent more time away from home... at work... then at afterwork functions. He stopped any intimacy with me. He started drinking more too. Rather than work on what was making our marriage suffer, he distanced himself (or tried to) and blamed his distance on me. If I didn't 'nag' he wouldn't have to do what he did. It was a vicious cycle. Right before I decided to end it with him I went to our pastor. I was so desperate to NOT let it end in failure, but the reality was, if I was the only one that saw the promise of holding on, it wasn't going to happen. We BOTH had to see it and move forward together.

My ex didn't care enough about me or our marriage to try. You do and that's a beautiful thing.


----------



## icecube316 (Nov 29, 2011)

Thank you for sharing. I am really afraid I waited way too long. She has mentioned leaving. So I may be too late. I really hope not. I really do love her. But she may have been feeling like this for way too long.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## icecube316 (Nov 29, 2011)

After some talking last night and this morning, I am hearing she is not willing to work on things, or try to fix anything. I guess that's it. She is still wearing her ring, still allowing me to stay home for appearances through the holidays and she said I can try what I want till then to fix things, but she isn't interested. She is very withdrawn. Its only been a couple days, so I am not ready to give up yet, I know I have to. But I just wish I could get some type of trial seperation and dating or something. I don't even get that. She must have checked out longer ago than I thought. She has complained our sex life was not spicey, but she also said its hard with a kid to sneak off and do things, we were tired. I let that go on too long. I keep hearing its too late from her, and I am having a hard time accepting she had a timeline and I did not. She also says she wishes she could love me, but she doesn't. All pretty hard news to take.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

icecube316 said:


> After some talking last night and this morning, I am hearing she is not willing to work on things, or try to fix anything. I guess that's it. She is still wearing her ring, still allowing me to stay home for appearances through the holidays and she said I can try what I want till then to fix things, but she isn't interested. She is very withdrawn. Its only been a couple days, so I am not ready to give up yet, I know I have to. But I just wish I could get some type of trial seperation and dating or something. I don't even get that. She must have checked out longer ago than I thought. She has complained our sex life was not spicey, but she also said its hard with a kid to sneak off and do things, we were tired. I let that go on too long. I keep hearing its too late from her, and I am having a hard time accepting she had a timeline and I did not. She also says she wishes she could love me, but she doesn't. All pretty hard news to take.


I'm sorry. From the looks of it, she sounds like she's been unhappy for a long time. 

It's unfortunate she doesn't care about what you do. And the timeline thing? Well, when you've been trying to communicate for a while and you've stopped being heard, you end up giving up. It's an exercise in futility. She's reached a point where she doesn't see that you would change anything and likely thinks the only reason you want to now is because she wants out. To her that's not good enough. It took this to get you to wake up.

I sincerely hope it's not too late. Maybe after the holidays she will reconsider her decision, but I wouldn't count on it. It will take separating for a while for her to really see any changes in you. You have to start all over again, as if you just met her.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

She is asking for space and she means it, no matter what she does you still have to move forward and I think your best bet is the 180... When I accepted that my stbxw was done I basically followed the 180, with of course a few modifications to suit my new role as coparent, and I found this really effective - it wasn't easy, many ups and downs, but through it I found that I atleast had a plan and so felt like I have known what my next move would be.

Here is the rules of the 180 that I borrowed from morituri's signature:

WARNING: The 180 is NOT a manipulation tool to make your spouse end his/her affair and commit to do the work of marital recovery, IT IS an emotional empowerment tool to help you become emotionally strong so that you can move on with your life - with or without your spouse. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. 

1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
4. Don't follow her/him around the house.
5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
7. Don't ask for reassurances.
8. Don't buy or give gifts.
9. Don't schedule dates together.
10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
11. Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW.


----------



## icecube316 (Nov 29, 2011)

This sucks. I am going alone to a counselor today, but I am not doing good. I've lost about 15 lbs since Monday, and I weighed 195, not skinny, but its not like I wieghed 300 and lost 15 lbs. I can't sleep, I can't eat. I have no confidence, and way too much hope. I don't know if I can do this much longer. If it wasn't for my daughter I wouldn't


----------



## Locard (May 26, 2011)

She will "let" you stay in your house. How magnanimous of her. I'm still suspicious. You do realize that work is the biggest hot spot for affairs.

You WANT it to be #2 because you can't accept any other reason. It may be, doubt it though. 

You need to be proactive in finding out for sure there is no one else not rely upon you feelings. If you found out she was having an affair it would make you poster #1,000,000 who was certain there was no affair.


----------



## Locard (May 26, 2011)

That is a good first step. Don't be shy if you need some meds to get you through the patch. If I came across as harsh it is not my intention. Its a new day.


----------



## Sindo (Oct 29, 2011)

Have a good look at the 180 that Lon mentioned. Will it save your marriage? Maybe, maybe not. But if divorce is inevitable, it will help you find the strength to go on.


----------



## icecube316 (Nov 29, 2011)

I looked at the 180, it is a lot easier said than done. I just don't feel like I have it in me.


----------



## inmygut (Apr 2, 2011)

Locard said:


> She will "let" you stay in your house. How magnanimous of her. I'm still suspicious. You do realize that work is the biggest hot spot for affairs.
> 
> You WANT it to be #2 because you can't accept any other reason. It may be, doubt it though.
> 
> You need to be proactive in finding out for sure there is no one else not rely upon you feelings. If you found out she was having an affair it would make you poster #1,000,000 who was certain there was no affair.


Why are you the one that needs to leave? She checked out and is unwilling to work on the marriage. She should be the one that deals with getting the apartment and paying support. Perhaps being hit with a healthy dose of reality will make her more willing to reconsider. Oh, and the comment that you are controlling almost always means that she is cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## inmygut (Apr 2, 2011)

icecube316 said:


> I looked at the 180, it is a lot easier said than done. I just don't feel like I have it in me.


The 180 is hard but it will help you. You need to do it for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## icecube316 (Nov 29, 2011)

inmygut said:


> Why are you the one that needs to leave? She checked out and is unwilling to work on the marriage. She should be the one that deals with getting the apartment and paying support. Perhaps being hit with a healthy dose of reality will make her more willing to reconsider. Oh, and the comment that you are controlling almost always means that she is cheating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She said she would move in with her parents. I can have the house. She'll still help with bills. We only have a few years left to pay. I will leave because I don't want to make my daughter switch schools in addition to all of this.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

icecube316 said:


> She said she would move in with her parents. I can have the house. She'll still help with bills. We only have a few years left to pay.* I will leave because I don't want to make my daughter switch schools in addition to all of this*.


Why can't your daughter stay with you in the house? Let your wife run her to school etc. from her parents house. She wants out, fine. Don't put the baby through more than she needs to be put through.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

icecube316 said:


> She said she would move in with her parents. I can have the house. She'll still help with bills. We only have a few years left to pay. I will leave because I don't want to make my daughter switch schools in addition to all of this.


You and your daughter can live in the house together. Your wife is the one who has chosen to leave the family.

Common, stop bring such a nice guy to a woman who is deliberately ending your family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## icecube316 (Nov 29, 2011)

Huh, she was cheating. I guess I should have paid attention to what everyne said...


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

icecube316 said:


> Huh, she was cheating. I guess I should have paid attention to what everyne said...


I'm so sorry.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

icecube, that is too bad I am sorry to hear it, I know how much it is hurting you. For me one of the hardest parts was accepting that she really was just "checked out" especially after I found out it wasn't entirely that simple, that her feelings of being done with the marriage were largely fueled by the rush she got from cheating. I still don't believe she was truly checked out, and am now fine with the fact that I will never know for sure because I just chose to let go, and whatever she has chosen is now entirely her problems to deal with - I have enough problems on my plate to deal with, some from the daily grind of life and much of what she saddled me with - I don't really have the strength of will to cope with her problems too. And it can be a big relief once you let go, so I hope you can find yourself in all of this, counselling/therapy can be a huge benefit which I advise you do...

And if she starts to backpedal and show remorse, make sure it is genuine and for her poor decision (not for getting caught), before you even consider offering her reconciliation. Don't let her blame you in any way for her bad choice, and don't sweep this under the rug if you both say you want to save your marriage - the marriage you had is over, you are now essentially a free man able to make whatever decision you need and want for yourself, whether that means starting again with her, being single or even, down the road, looking for someone more deserving of your trust.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

icecube316 said:


> Huh, she was cheating. I guess I should have paid attention to what everyne said...


OK now that you know the truth, it is time to undo all of your past assumptions. 

First, it is not your fault. Just like we warned you that she was cheating, we will be telling you to not believe anything that she says. She is reinventing history to make you think that you were to blame, when the truth is that she started to find fault rather than work on her marraige when she started to cheat. It is normal to not be perfect, do not let her say otherwise. She cheated not you. She is to blame. You are both 50%/50% to blame for issues in the marraige. She is 100% to blame for cheating.

Second, she is no longer a friend. She must make you a bad person to rationalize what she is doing to you. In doing so she will be able to be cold and calculating in hurting you. This will happen.

Third, see one and two and realize that she will try to use your love for her to get you to drop your guard to her advantage. Among other things, be on the watch for fake remorse and fake R.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I say kick her ass out of the house, and she can't take your daughter with her. All bets are off now.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Now you also have things you can do. For instance find the OM and expose the affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Ice,
sorry to hear this, now you know what you are really dealing with and now you can make the real choice for your self and your daughter.

Just remember you are only at fault for 50 % of the unhealthy marriage, she is 100% at fault for her lies and deciet, she made the choice to betray you, when she could have taken the harder road less traveled and been honest with you from the start. So do not blame your self for her adultory.


----------



## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Ice - so - if you wouldn't mind - break it down for us - how'd the cheating part come to light finally? 

So sorry that you are being cheated on!

If the other man is married - it is now your sworn duty to expose to his W and family.


----------



## icecube316 (Nov 29, 2011)

Ok, a little back ground into how I found out. The signs were starting to become a little more visible. I am a die hard football fan. She started to take interest in it as well. And never had in 10 years. I was thown off. She was becoming colder and more distant. Last weekend, I watched the game in my mancave, and she had xmas movies on in the bedroom with out daughter, but she had the living room tv on and kept up with the score. Very unlike her. I had been talking to her cousin, who said if you had tried harder a month ago maybe you wouldn't be in this boat. So I was pretty much sure something was up. I confronted her, she lied. I went to counseling, she went in a seperate session, more for my benefit so the counselor knew what approach to take with me. She said she wasn't in love and wanted to move on.

Well, I was ok with that, sucked, but figured I would stick out the holidays, go through counseling and hope for the best, and accept the worst. Then I got an offer from the cell company to upgrade our plan because of overages and out of network textes. I knew her 2 of her cousins were out of network so I looked at the calls and there were 3 out of network numbers. And one of them had times that just fell into the only times I wasn't around. She had a new friend on facebook she knew from highschool, a few months ago. I was skeptical, but didn't want to be controlling... So I let it go, I had a friend call the new number, it was the FB friend. I confronted her. She admitted to "talking" to him and meeting him once, for lunch. But it is not a relationship. I don't know exactly how long its been, I don't think its a physical relationship but certainly emotional and at this point I don't believe a word she says anyway. Its time to figure out the logistics, but that will take a while. I need to get through counceling a little before I can be mature in talking about our future. But my guard is way up.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

what kind of phone?


also PM a mod and ask to move this into the CWI section, you'll get more responses from people who have gone thru similar situations


----------



## icecube316 (Nov 29, 2011)

It was our family plan cell phone.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

icecube316 said:


> It was our family plan cell phone.



I mean the model

some phones you can actually retrieve texts that were deleted


----------



## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

No more spying. No more evidence needed. She's done. I knew this marriage was over before the cheating was revealed. 

OP. I consider you the luckiest man alive. Looking back, I figured my wife checked out of my marriage as many as 15 years ago. She never told me. I had to drag it out of her over the past two years when I tried to fix a 3 year "rut" in my marriage. We have 3 teen kids now. I'm too old to start over. I'm stuck.

If my wife came to me 15 years ago and said the things to me yours is saying to you, it would have killed me, like it is you. But look at me know. That is the pathetic lonely bitter man you could have become if your wife didn't save you with this pronouncement of hers.

You're young. Do the 180. Make yorself abetter person for you and your daughter. And 15 years from now, count your blessings that you are with a wonderful woman who chose to love you for who you are.

Good luck. Remember, I envy you.


----------



## icecube316 (Nov 29, 2011)

Thanks MrK. Its going to take some time to get there, hopefully after the holidays things will start to look up. I think I got a couple tough weeks ahead of me. But I am done and moving on now. I got to try to let the kid have a good xmas, break the news to her and figure out what I want to do next.


----------



## icecube316 (Nov 29, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> I mean the model
> 
> some phones you can actually retrieve texts that were deleted


I don't care what she said in the texts. The fact that she said anything is good enough for me. The fact that she met him for a conversation face to face is enough. If I start reading them I will really begin to hate her and that can not be healthy for the kid. I need to accept her for what she is, not believe a word she says, find a lawyer who is in it for me and deal with her as best I can for the time being till I fix me.


----------



## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Remember to expose the other man (OM).


----------



## icecube316 (Nov 29, 2011)

He is single, otherwise I would.


----------



## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

You don't care about him anyhow. You don't care about your wife. It' just you and your daughter and your new life without a woman who married you for the wrong reason and now wants out.


----------



## BreatheLove (Dec 30, 2011)

Mostly women stick in unhappy marriages for the sake of their children. But if that single most factor is also not stopping her from going, may be she has found a new Love interest.


----------



## jimmmy (Dec 30, 2011)

Back off give her space, but you'll see she has someone, women do not think of leaving otherwise......99 per cent sure


----------



## BreatheLove (Dec 30, 2011)

Also, if you do not suspect that she has an affair because she returns home on time and stuff, do you know that there are a lot of opportunities for affairs over the "Internet", facebook and all? May be she just found someone who comforts her!


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Lon said:


> And usually it so happens to be all three at once.


The three go well together. Each enables another in some sequence. Often it starts with selfishness, then another person and then the history re-writing.

That said, since life is full of grays and nuances these steps are enablers of each other and probably feed each other over time with no clear which one started what. For sure once another person is in the mix, there is history re-writing and they will view life before the affair as a bad thing and thier partners fault ... often.

It is such a recurring theme for the husband to say there is no way there can be an affair. There is no time and that they are certain they are responsible because of their neglect. 

Balancing life is not an easy thing for most of us. We make decisions on what we put our time and efforts on. Not always good ones, but there are constant tradeoffs. I think all you can do is put the marriage as the #1 priority and do your best to make informed decisions knowing all is a moving target.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

> She had a new friend on facebook she knew from highschool, a few months ago. I was skeptical, but *didn't want to be controlling*... :slap:
> 
> So I let it go, I had a friend call the new number, it was the FB friend. I confronted her. :smthumbup:


Facepalm for the first part anyway. I understand this from folks. But I highlight it here for emphasis. It seems in our culture there is no worse situation than to give the hint of being controlling. It trumps all else. I get it to a point. I don't get the absolute priority though. 

It may just be that we have not yet adapted to the technologies we are dealing with. I suspect there are way more EAs, and probably more cheating due to the ease of access. BUT, the technologies have also enabled the ability to expose or become aware of the affairs as well. So to a great extent we are just more aware of these things. Kinda like it seems there are way more earth quakes than many of us thought. 

So just to state IMHO, that transparency is a good thing. In this case there appeared to be that transparency and the situation seemed innocent enough. He did have some opportunity to deal with this earlier ... perhaps. 

Kudos however for putting it all together with FB and cell calls.

So very often by the time the poster is on this site so very much damage has been done and things are radically gone bad even though the symptoms are unclear.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> It is such a recurring theme for the husband to say there is no way there can be an affair. There is no time and that they are certain they are responsible because of their neglect.


I could not, or would not, even comprehend the reality of this until I realized it happened to me - I was forcefed the red pill. It is amazing to me now that I simply could not see it before - like those stereogram illusions you can stare at for hours and not see the image, then all of a sudden it pops out at you and you can never not see it in the patterns after that. Websites like this that discuss infidelity had absolutely no meaning to me before.


----------

