# Excuses for having vanilla sex?



## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

Wife and I were both married previously but had no kids. Her ex-h was a verbally abusive p***k and eventually cheated. One of the repeated stories I hear is about how she sustained an injury (broken ankle) playing sports and he did absolutely nothing to help her - wouldn't take her to the hospital, wouldn't help around the house, wouldn't basically pay any attention to her.

Fast forward to now and her list of injuries has grown since we have been together. Broken foot. Separated shoulder. Dislocated rib. Fractured finger. All this in a period of 10 years.

She has often said "I've done more with you than anyone else, can't you ever be satisfied?" when it comes to sex. In my head I'm thinking "that's great, but I've been to way more places than you and I really liked the experience at the time but I'd love the experience fully if it were you there with me". She then says she is sexually dense and shuts down completely. After that, about a week or two will pass before we have sex again.

The odd time she is willing to do more than just give or receive or have sex in the same place (bed) in the standard 3 positions (missionary, cowgirl or spoon). The odd time we will bring a rabbit vibe to bed with us or maybe have sex on a weeknight.

Over the years I've bought a blindfold, wrist and ankle restraints, a can of whipped cream, a sexy outfit for her, an erotic very softcore movie (no penetration, cumshots, etc), and have even tried surprising her by renting a hotel room for one of our date nights. I've texted her naughty suggestions and have even gone to the lengths of writing a sexy story about her and I in a fantasy place.

The blindfold was used once. The wrist and ankle restraints were attached to the bed once but never used. The whipped cream got thrown away without being opened. The movie is still in the plastic. The hotel room key was never picked up. My text messages get ignored or the subject is changed without recognizing my original message. The story I wrote is still sitting in the sealed envelope in her dresser.

I've tried talking to her about it but she usually shuts down or changes the subject. It's frustrating as hell.

When we do have sex it is usually very vanilla, quiet and certain positions/actions are out of the question due to her injuries (won't use the restraints because she is scared her shoulder will pop out, for one). But, she seems to have no problems running on a treadmill, doing yoga and lifting weights at the gym. I've asked her how she can do that but yet can't do anything more in bed. She says "it's different" and walks away.

Thoughts ladies?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Thoughts are, she's giving what she can.

What do you want to do? Is she into sex when she has it?


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

There are times when she very into it but those times are few and far between. She read all three 50 Shades books at the urging of her girlfriends that had been reading them and she was extremely into it for a few weeks. But after she was done reading them, back to her old ways.

I know erotica turns her on but she insists she only read the mommy porn because her friends said it was something she shouldn't miss out on. Her collection of magazines include Good Housekeeping and Shape.

It's not that I want her to be a lady on the streets and a **** between the sheets but more variety would be nice once in awhile. I've tried initiating it many times but I get no reaction or a simple "someday, ok?".


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Yea. sounds frustrating.

Do you watch porn?


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## RFguy (Feb 17, 2013)

You are describing my sex life with my GF (minus the injuries part). 

Tried to introduce her to some light bondage, toys etc. but no luck. She didn't even want to try, offered lame excuses and in some cases she went totally ballistic on me for merely suggesting something.

I feel your pain man


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

I can relate. Sounds a lot like the situation I am in with my h and I agree it is so damn frustrating. I have a thread (knocked socks off hubby... but)where I share my frustrations and it too is very vanilla  wish I had advice but I'm trying to figure out how in the hell to fix my situation


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

RFguy said:


> You are describing my sex life with my GF (minus the injuries part).
> 
> Tried to introduce her to some light bondage, toys etc. but no luck. She didn't even want to try, offered lame excuses and in some cases she went totally ballistic on me for merely suggesting something.
> 
> I feel your pain man


Lame excuses according to you.

If she's not into it, let her go. She's not a wife. Go find a GF who meets your sexual needs.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

You're not going to win this one, cowboy.

It sounds like you've pushed her as far as she's willing to go and a little beyond. Eventually she's just going to despise climbing into bed with you, as you're already starting to with her.

There's no magic happy pill, seduction, work of erotica, or purported man-up lifestyle change that is going to turn your vanilla wife into a sexual Ferrari. This might not be an easy thing for you to concede, but you have no choice. 

The only question left to answer is "what are you prepared to do about it?". You can make your peace, you can get out of the marriage, or you can fight about it until your sex life becomes a distant memory. Those are your only choices.


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

that_girl said:


> Yea. sounds frustrating.
> 
> Do you watch porn?


I have only watched porn a few times, mostly in a previous life with some other partners who were willingly into it. Since I've been married I watch a few clips on the computer maybe once or twice a month, if that. I've wanted to try it with my wife a couple of times but the furthest we ever seem to get is just skimming the titles on the PPV or laptop before she says "let's not do this" or "I don't need anything like this". I accept her answer and it always ends badly with both of us going upstairs and sleeping no matter how much I try to carry on the intimacy in bed.


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

Cletus said:


> You're not going to win this one, cowboy.
> 
> It sounds like you've pushed her as far as she's willing to go and a little beyond. Eventually she's just going to despise climbing into bed with you, as you're already starting to with her.
> 
> ...


I'm no quitter and I'm competitive by nature so I'm not giving in and not giving up. If she decides to quit or has had enough well that is her choice I guess. She knows I bend and change for her because that's what a spouse is supposed to do: satisfy their partner. Unfortunately, the reciprocation isn't there when it comes to sex for some reason.

I guess I'll just have to start talking to the hand, so to speak, because I am not one who will go out and look for a Snickers in order to satisfy.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Porn is messing up your view of sex.


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

that_girl said:


> Porn is messing up your view of sex.


If that's the case then I could say the same that lack of porn is messing up her view of sex.


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## RFguy (Feb 17, 2013)

that_girl said:


> Lame excuses according to you.
> 
> If she's not into it, let her go. She's not a wife. Go find a GF who meets your sexual needs.


No, they are lame. I would respect it if she was upfront and told me that she's not into this. But what I get is "maybe later", "I am not in the mood right now", "I would like to but I have to go to (insert some errand here)" and stuff like that.

And it is dishonest on her part because if she was upfront with her sexual preferences from day one I would have dumped her long ago and go on with my life.


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

I hear you RF. I was reading your post and heard my wife's voice saying those things. Her most commonly used one is "maybe someday".

Well, that last time she said that I turned around and laid it on the line:

"So, if I die tomorrow I want you to remember those two words for the rest of your life."


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Hetfield, I'm going to suggest something controversial, and I might get flamed for it here, but it did work for me.

If she doesn't want sex that night, try forcing her to. If she doesn't want the handcuffs, put them on her anyway (of course, this assumes that you are bigger than her and can pull this off). 

Years ago, forcing my wife to have sex re-ignited a spark in our marriage, and she really got into it. In fact, for awhile, I felt like I had created a monster, because after that, that's the only kind of sex she wanted, and I got tired of it after awhile, but we eventually reached a good middle point (the irony is, she is very much the boss in the house otherwise, which makes a complicated situation, but that's another story).

Of course, you certainly know her better than I do, and would know if this plan would be fraught with disaster or not, either emotional or even legal. I'm just throwing the idea out there. 

BTW, That Girl, it's not fair to say that porn is messing up his view of sex. It's perfectly normal not to want vanilla sex the rest of your life, porn or no porn.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

"Maybe someday" is to not hurt or disappoint y'all.

Being honest could have consequences (in their head) so they bait you...

I am a very sexual human being. My STBXH and I never had issues in the bedroom...until it got impersonal. 

RF--- Dump her now. Dang.

And Hetfield, no. Her lack of porn isn't messing up her view of sex. She has sex. She has sex that is comfortable for her. Porn sex isn't real.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Theseus said:


> Hetfield, I'm going to suggest something controversial, and I might get flamed for it here, but it did work for me.
> 
> If she doesn't want sex that night, try forcing her to. If she doesn't want the handcuffs, put them on her anyway (of course, this assumes that you are bigger than her and can pull this off).
> 
> ...


WOW! So rape your wife.

Yea. That's going to work.

LOL!

And "vanilla" is objective. If he wants more, and she's not giving it then he has choices. Rape her (as you suggest), cheat, or leave. Done.


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

Theseus> I have tried to playfully engage her by doing that and wasn't successful. Another time several months later I tried it again with a little more dominance and she completely shut down. We talked about it a few days later and she broke down, telling me she needs to be in control at all times...and spilled about being forced into sex by a BF when she was in HS. I felt bad and she said she had buried everything up until that night that I tried to be aggressive and that she just shuts down unless sex is on her terms.

She never got counseling or therapy for it.

I know for a fact that she has never dealt with it properly and has real trust issues.


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## RFguy (Feb 17, 2013)

that_girl said:


> "Maybe someday" is to not hurt or disappoint y'all.


Maybe this works short term, but I can assure you it is very hurtful and disappointing when you realize that this day will never come untill the heat death of the Universe.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Y'all talkin about rape but not saying it.

Your wife was raped. That is huge. I have been raped. I have been sexually molested. It does eff with your ability to have sex. FORCING her to do anything would be counterproductive.

She needs to work on that, but if she won't, that's her choice. But to keep pressuring her about sex will completely shut her down.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

RFguy said:


> Maybe this works short term, but I can assure you it is very hurtful and disappointing when you realize that this day will never come untill the heat death of the Universe.


I understand.

However, you can leave. So why don't you? Seriously.


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

Well, it's been about 25 years since it happened and she hasn't worked on it for probably 24 of them so I don't think she is going to start now. I've addressed it with her and the answer I got was a very selfish "it's my problem and if I want to dredge everything up I will but don't hold your breath".


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, then you have your answer.

You don't seem very compassionate about it. 25 years or not. It took me 20 years to address my molestation and 15 to address my rape. You say she's selfish...you sound pretty selfish too.

Have you been raped? Probably not. 

She doesn't want to work on it. You can't control that and you can't get your "freaky" sex out of her either.

So make a choice. Stay and just deal with the fact that your wife has sexual issues and accept that. Or--- leave, divorce, and find someone who does what you like. Trying to convince her of anything is not working. You've tried that, and failed...so stop trying.


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

that_girl said:


> I understand.
> 
> However, you can leave. So why don't you? Seriously.


If I can interject for a minute. For some of us guys, we can't leave. I've loved this woman from the day I met her. I want her to be the last person I see before I die. I was married before and it wasn't the same, not even close. Leaving my wife is NOT an option.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Then stop betching about it.

She is who she is. Accept it.


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

that_girl said:


> Well, then you have your answer.
> 
> You don't seem very compassionate about it. 25 years or not. It took me 20 years to address my molestation and 15 to address my rape. You say she's selfish...you sound pretty selfish too.


Not compassionate? Selfish? I don't think so. I offered her everything. My ear at anytime. I offered to walk beside her if she wanted some outside help. I gave her my heart and will continue to give my heart.

To me, not being compassionate or being selfish would be telling her it's all in her head and that she should just forget it happened while she makes me dinner and shines my shoes.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

But you keep bugging her about non-vanilla sex? Knowing she was raped. Knowing she carries that inside of her.

She doesn't want help. My husband has TONS of issues...he doesn't want help. Fine. 

If you Love her, then Love her for what she is, not who you want her to be.


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

that_girl said:


> If you Love her, then Love her for what she is, not who you want her to be.


I do love her for who she is and not what I want her to be.

Wanting a little more flavor in the bedroom has nothing to do with wanting someone to change. If I wanted her to change I'd ask her to lose 15 pounds, wear more makeup, get a brazilian every 3 weeks and learn to paralel park.

Asking her to widen her horizons on a subject is not asking them to change who they are.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

It is asking her to change. SHE is not COMFORTABLE with it. Obviously you have never had that feeling of feeling gross in a sexual act. 

She gives what she can. And you want more. She probably can never give more because she's not working on herself.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Hetfield said:


> Theseus> I have tried to playfully engage her by doing that and wasn't successful. Another time several months later I tried it again with a little more dominance and she completely shut down. We talked about it a few days later and she broke down, telling me she needs to be in control at all times...and spilled about being forced into sex by a BF when she was in HS. I felt bad and she said she had buried everything up until that night that I tried to be aggressive and that she just shuts down unless sex is on her terms.


OK, that puts a very different light on things, and is critical information you should have mentioned before. 

If "she needs to be in control at all times" and sex has to be "on her terms", then maybe you should allow the car to drive in a different direction for awhile. Encourage her to explore her dominant side. She might not be into whips and chains, but if she was allowed full control of the situation then she might have to confidence to break out of the vanilla realm. Tell her those restraints you bought were for her to use on you, not you to use on her. But of course, this plan would require that you would be willing to put yourself in that situation, and also entail a huge amount of honest communication between the two of you.


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

Is it a bad thing to want more?


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## RFguy (Feb 17, 2013)

Hetfield said:


> Theseus> I have tried to playfully engage her by doing that and wasn't successful. Another time several months later I tried it again with a little more dominance and she completely shut down. We talked about it a few days later and she broke down, telling me she needs to be in control at all times...and spilled about being forced into sex by a BF when she was in HS. I felt bad and she said she had buried everything up until that night that I tried to be aggressive and that she just shuts down unless sex is on her terms.
> 
> She never got counseling or therapy for it.
> 
> I know for a fact that she has never dealt with it properly and has real trust issues.



Out of desperation I once tried the rough approach too. In my case she became very violent, thrashing her body around and I let her go immediately. All I tried was to tie her on the bed and she reluctantly agreed. But once I started tying the knots she had that reaction

At one point she confessed to me that up until she was in her early twenties she held men in very high regard, but that changed afterwards. She didn't tell me what was the cause of that change and I didn't ask because I thought it was probably something simple like a BF dumping her for her best friend.

Could it be that my GF was abused too in the past?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

No. It's not a bad thing.

However, she doesn't want to give it. And you won't leave. So you're beating your head against a wall.

Is this how you want to live? doesn't sound pleasant.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

RFguy said:


> Out of desperation I once tried the rough approach too. In my case she became very violent, thrashing her body around and I let her go immediately. All I tried was to tie her on the bed and she reluctantly agreed. But once I started tying the knots she had that reaction
> 
> At one point she confessed to me that up until she was in her early twenties she held men in very high regard, but that changed afterwards. She didn't tell me what was the cause of that change and I didn't ask because I thought it was probably something simple like a BF dumping her for her best friend.
> 
> Could it be that my GF was abused too in the past?


Dude. Yes.


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

Theseus said:


> Tell her those restraints you bought were for her to use on you, not you to use on her. But of course, this plan would require that you would be willing to put yourself in that situation, and also entail a huge amount of honest communication between the two of you.


Been there done that. I've offered and the answer was "no".
I've even put them on myself (except the last one was a little loose for obvious reasons LOL) and all she did was roll her eyes and took them off.

I've played on her dominant side and have coaxed her on. It's not like I'm never satisfied or am not happy with how things are but I'm in my early 40s and time is ticking. I don't want her or I to be old and wrinkly sitting in our recliners looking at each other thinking "why didn't we do that?" when we had the chance? Know what I mean?


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

RFguy said:


> Could it be that my GF was abused too in the past?


There's a possibility, yes. That or she was with a guy who completely destroyed her emotionally for whatever reason.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Hetfield said:


> I don't want her or I to be old and wrinkly sitting in our recliners looking at each other thinking "why didn't we do that?" when we had the chance? Know what I mean?



Amen. I have been in the exact same situation. To be brutally honest, the only thing left really is for you to remain unhappy, or for you to move on to someone else, or for you two to go to couples therapy.

If she doesn't want to go, then insist on it. She might need therapy to get through the pain in her past, and she definitely needs to stop punishing you for things that other guys did. You could also use therapy for yourself to figure out how to deal with the situation if she keeps herself closed off to you.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

The shutting down and not communicating is what has to be worked on. You could try everything under the sun but if she shuts down, nothing will work.

Talk outside the bedroom. Dont allow her to side step the issue. Dont allow her to clam up because of some mysterious tape playing in her head if she won't share that tape with you. This is YOUR sex life too and you are trying to make it as exciting and fulfilling as possible. She's making you jump through hopes and guess what the trouble is. If she read 50 Shades and enjoyed it, then she is capable of getting there. The question is one of trust, not past, but present.

Don't allow your fear of her reaction stop you from exploring this issue. Trauma can be healed from, but she has to want that healing, if that's the real issue.

"Our sex life is important to me, you are important to me. No more excuses, tell me why you don't trust me to take care of you, why you can't relax and let me love you?" New things scare everybody but with a loving partner we trust, there is no need to shy away.

Good for you for continuing this cause. Also, as you open up this can of worms, it may get messy before it all gets cleaned up. But, not going there will keep it there and that's not healthy for anyone.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

I think you are forcing the issue. Sex is sex, I dont care if it is a quickie in the broom closet, or in mid air from a flying trapeze..

Everyone here is tired of hearing it, but my wife and I averaged sex at least once a day for well into out third decade of marriage...

Now been married 47 years....Last night it was a race to see who could shuck off their clothes the fastest...She won....

It was what you would call vanilla sex and it was GREAT !!!!!!!!

We have had sex in cars, strawberry fields, on the shore of a lake, sneeky sex under a blanket when people were in the room,
in a big overstuffed chair in ger appartment (cowboy...She orgasmed the instant she hit bottom)...It is all SEX and it is all GREAT......


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

Woodchuck said:


> We have had sex in cars, strawberry fields, on the shore of a lake, sneeky sex under a blanket when people were in the room,
> in a big overstuffed chair in ger appartment (cowboy...She orgasmed the instant she hit bottom)...It is all SEX and it is all GREAT......


That makes me jealous. I've had sex in cars, on a beach, in a pool, under a blanket when others were in the room. You name it, I probably had it. Through our discussions, my wife has said she has done many of the same things with others.

But the person I want these things with is my wife. And, to date, none of that has happened because, in her words, "I've done that already". Makes me feel about this >< big.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

OK that is a different issue.

You're all over the place, man.

TELL US the problems. I keep reading more things.

1. She was raped.
2. She is bored/doesn't want to do things with you.

How is she in the rest of your relationship? Has she checked out at all?


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## RFguy (Feb 17, 2013)

Hetfield said:


> That makes me jealous. I've had sex in cars, on a beach, in a pool, under a blanket when others were in the room. You name it, I probably had it. Through our discussions, my wife has said she has done many of the same things with others.
> 
> But the person I want these things with is my wife. And, to date, none of that has happened because, in her words, "I've done that already". Makes me feel about this >< big.


Maybe your W and my GF are sisters because she once fed me the same line (see this specific post in my thread)

She didn't tell me of her experiences, only that back then she was more sexual but now her wild days are over.


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

that_girl said:


> OK that is a different issue.
> 
> You're all over the place, man.
> 
> ...


The rest of our relationship is fine. We are a very average couple living in the upper middle class. We both work hard (both self-employed) and are educated. The two of us don't get much time away from work and haven't taken a holiday alone (without kids) in 4 years. In fact, we haven't had a night alone in the house (or otherwise) in that timeframe. Neither of us have much for supports around us in terms of family members or reliable friends who can look after kids while we go away, even for one night (that, and she doesn't want to burden friends with that).

She is all over the place emotionally but generally is a negative person and can always find fault with others. Her family was always had very high expectations of her (education, weight, the guys she dated, career) and much of the time she felt too much pressure and that she wasn't living up to their expectations.

She is also a very practical person (read: cheap). If she can save a nickel on a $100 at the supermarket she will. I suggested we do some online shopping for some sexy things (toys, lingerey, etc) and she said it would be a waste of money.

She is somewhat insecure. Several times a day I get questions like "did you turn the light off in the garage?", "did you put his lunchbox in his backpack upright?", "did you empty the bag in the lawn mower before putting it away?" and (my personal favorite) "did you put soap in the dishwasher before turning it on?".  We've been under the same roof for 10+ years and she knows I always turn lights off, put his lunchbox in his backpack the way she wants, empty the bag from the lawnmower and start the dishwasher with soap.

I know her ex-h because we all went to school together and, yes, he was dumber than dumb, but you would think after all these years she would maybe realize that I'm a pretty intelligent guy who knows how to do things.

She hasn't checked out, that's for sure. She just gets depressed for a few days then snaps out of it for a few days before the cycle begins again. Not much different from any other woman or man I know...we all go through mood swings from time to time.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Doesn't sound insecure...sounds like a control-freak.

I was with one once. Omg.

Also, sounds like there's no romance...is there romance??


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

RFguy said:


> Maybe your W and my GF are sisters because she once fed me the same line (see this specific post in my thread)
> 
> She didn't tell me of her experiences, only that back then she was more sexual but now her wild days are over.


They very well could be related from the sounds of it. My wife never went into any detail about her previous romps and never said she was more sexual or wild in her younger days. Quite the opposite, in fact. She says she is sexually dense.

Case in point: I showed her an article about female ejaculation that was on the Cosmo magazine website one night in bed. She almost fainted. She was mortified and didn't believe women could do that. When I asked her if she would like to try it, yep, you guessed the answer: "maybe someday".

That was 6 years or so ago. Clearly "maybe someday" means "not on your f**king life!"


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

RFguy said:


> You are describing my sex life with my GF (minus the injuries part).
> 
> Tried to introduce her to some light bondage, toys etc. but no luck. She didn't even want to try, offered lame excuses and in some cases she went totally ballistic on me for merely suggesting something.
> 
> I feel your pain man


You ever ask yourself this question? Why *should* she want you to use bondage on her (light or otherwise) toys or etc?

I think I have to declare a special interest here. I had a relationship with a woman who had been really, badly beaten (to the point of hospitalisation more than once) by her husband. This has coloured my attitude toward bondage -even light, consensual bondage- a great deal.

Having someone breakdown in tears because you just made a sudden move toward her, well, let's say you don't ever want to be in that situation. It broke my heart to see her crying and trembling.


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

that_girl said:


> Doesn't sound insecure...sounds like a control-freak.
> 
> I was with one once. Omg.
> 
> Also, sounds like there's no romance...is there romance??


Does buying her flowers for no reason sound like romance?
Does giving her a massage with no expectations sound like romance?
Does surprising her with a nice dinner out with no kids sound like romance?
Does going home from work early to wash dishes, do laundry, vacuum and clean up the house so we can enjoy a nice relaxing night sound like romance?
Does surprising her with a hand-written note proclaiming my love for her romance?

These are all things I've done.

Going the other way, she's done Valentine's cards, anniversary cards, birthday cards and just about any other significant event. But, I can count on two hands over the past 10 years the things she has done that were romantic and spontaneous. I've asked her on occasion why she rarely does things that are considered romantic and her answer is "I guess I just never think of it, I'm not wired that way I suppose."


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## Angus1985 (Feb 14, 2013)

When we do have sex it is usually very vanilla, quiet and certain positions/actions are out of the question due to her injuries (won't use the restraints because she is scared her shoulder will pop out, for one). But, she seems to have no problems running on a treadmill, doing yoga and lifting weights at the gym. I've asked her how she can do that but yet can't do anything more in bed. She says "it's different" and walks away.

Thoughts ladies?[/QUOTE]


Sounds to me that she has a great deal of Sexual Hang-ups. Have you thought about going to a sex therapist?


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Okay I have to shamefully admit that forcing it -- well it was more like "take it anyway" did work on me. Because for a long time I wouldn't do doggie. Then He just flipped me over and got me into a hold somehow and stuck it in. But he was sweet talking me to death while he was taking it so I just gave in. Doggie is still my least favorite but he likes it so I go along to please him. It feels good and humiliating at the same time. 

As for the toys I can understand her viewpoint. I definitely wouldn't want to be restrained like that nor do I want toys or anything else. His penis is the only thing that does for me. Sex to me is the closest I can get with my husband and I feel so bonded to him through sex. All that other stuff would just get in the way of feeling that love and closeness.


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

Angus1985 said:


> Sounds to me that she has a great deal of Sexual Hang-ups. Have you thought about going to a sex therapist?


I've thought of it.
I've suggested it.
Can't lead a horse to water, or so I'm told.
She doesn't want to waste money on a therapist.
She's been to them before apparently when she was with her ex-h.

To her, our lives seem perfectly normal and even border on the edge sexually.


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## Angus1985 (Feb 14, 2013)

Hetfield said:


> I've thought of it.
> I've suggested it.
> Can't lead a horse to water, or so I'm told.
> She doesn't want to waste money on a therapist.
> ...


So sorry to hear this! It really is a shame because it could be so amazing for you both if she could get past the hang-ups, and I am certain a therapist could help her. Don't give up, keep trying!


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Oh by the way - what is vanilla sex anyway? Is it the position that defines it or lack of passion?


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## Angus1985 (Feb 14, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> Oh by the way - what is vanilla sex anyway? Is it the position that defines it or lack of passion?


Guess you didn't read "50 shades of Grey"......


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

committed4ever said:


> Oh by the way - what is vanilla sex anyway? Is it the position that defines it or lack of passion?


To me vanilla sex infers the lack of desire to try anything new (positions, locations, initiations, etc) or a variation of something that is already being done.

For instance, if sex is exclusively reserved for the bed or sofa and one isn't willing to have sex in other places (kitchen, shower, floor, car, etc) then it becomes mundane over time. It's like ordering the same pizza from the same place whenever it's time to order in.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

50 Shades of Gray?
:rofl:

Didn't read it. But if you're comparing your real like to fiction, you will have problems.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> Oh by the way - what is vanilla sex anyway? Is it the position that defines it or lack of passion?


Lack of variety. The OP feels that using one place to have sex and few positions is lacking variety. I agree.


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## Angus1985 (Feb 14, 2013)

that_girl said:


> 50 Shades of Gray?
> :rofl:
> 
> Didn't read it. But if you're comparing your real like to fiction, you will have problems.


The only reason I continued to read the books was because it turned me on big time. It actually helped a lot of people's sex lives! No worries, I'm definitely not comparing


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## RFguy (Feb 17, 2013)

I've read some parts of 50 Shades and found it very poorly written. I wonder how it became so popular. 

If anyone is interested, you can find stories that are 100 times better at literotica.com


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

RFguy said:


> Out of desperation I once tried the rough approach too. In my case she became very violent, thrashing her body around and I let her go immediately. All I tried was to tie her on the bed and she reluctantly agreed. But once I started tying the knots she had that reaction
> 
> At one point she confessed to me that up until she was in her early twenties she held men in very high regard, but that changed afterwards. She didn't tell me what was the cause of that change and I didn't ask because I thought it was probably something simple like a BF dumping her for her best friend.
> 
> Could it be that my GF was abused too in the past?


Dude yes. I suggested as much in your other thread.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Why do people try to force themselves to be in sexually incompatable relationships?


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

Jasel said:


> Why do people try to force themselves to be in sexually incompatable relationships?


They didn't realise until it was too late?

Once you've got years of history and maybe kids thrown into the mix it makes it harder to up sticks and leave.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

ClimbingTheWalls said:


> They didn't realise until it was too late?
> 
> Once you've got years of history and maybe kids thrown into the mix it makes it harder to up sticks and leave.


SO true.

But then people have to accept what they choose to live with and not complain. Sucks, but such is life. If this is the biggest problem, I'd say it ain't so bad.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

OP, given a choice, would you prefer to have more passion in your sex life or more variety? I prefer I passionate partner who I know is alive and into it as opposed to simply getting more variety. As long as I have passion and enthusiasm from my wife, I can be content with the sexual positions that have become old hat to us like missionary, cow girl, reverse cowgirl, spooning, doggie style, standing doggie style, standing/against the wall, me standing while she's on her back on bed, frog sex, pleasure swing sex, her laying on her belly, and 69.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

TheStranger said:


> Lack of variety. The OP feels that using one place to have sex and few positions is lacking variety. I agree.


Oh, I see. I'm not fussy about positions or places, either way. I didn't care too much for the kitchen counter but that's what I get for greeting him in lingerie while cooking.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> Oh by the way - what is vanilla sex anyway? Is it the position that defines it or lack of passion?



Just to clarify definitions, "Vanilla sex" is not necessarily boring or mundane sex. 

It just means the most basic, normal sex, with nothing added, like missionary sex. Like ordering a vanilla ice cream cone. Still tastes good, although most people want to try other flavors after awhile. 

The term has been common for a long time among people who practice BDSM, because they consider their sex a whole level higher and more intense than the "vanillas".


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

What concerns me is that the lack of sexual positions is reason enough for some people to want to put a marriage in peril. That seems so ridiculous. Is it now reasonable to leave a relationship in search of a women who is willing to contort herself for the sexual pleasure of her partner? I have a feeling that our expectations have become completely out of wack. 

The question is really - is the relationship valuable enough to maintain even if your wife is not contorting herself to make you excited? Is your wife's happiness, the stibility of you children's lives, your satisfaction with the rest of your relationship enough or too little for you? 

There is something else that needs consideration, are there a sufficient numbers of women floating around who find doing these things to just to please their partner. 

I am not chastising you for wanting more but asking you to be reasonable with a woman you say you love. I am appealing to your sense of fairness. Sex should be mutually enjoyable. Is there any excitement for your wife in what you want her to do? 

If not , why should she extend herself? She probably feels sexual pleasure is as much for her's as it is yours. That sounds reasonable to me and is usually the way sex works 

If being tied up, using toys, having sex on the rug brings you pleasure but if it means she has to forgo her pleasure, dont you think she has the right to refuse on that basis alone? If she does not like being tied up, how will you get any pleasure out of doing something she does not enjoy? 

My suggestion is to ask her what would bring her more pleasure and enjoyment. I get no sense from you about how happy she is with the sex you are having now. Is it good enough to motivate her to try different things with you?

She may already be getting too little out of it that asking for more of the same is out of the question. Ask what she is happy about in the sex you are having now and what wolud make her enjoy it more. Do it with no hidden agenda just make it about her this time. 

I ask because I think a lot of the discussion is destorted by a sense of entitlement. You of course have an expectation of intimacy with your wife but is she required to keep you entertained as well? The boredom you feel - it it her or you? Is she required to satisfy your every desire so that you don't die with out ever having sex in a public park? 

It really is about what you both want. She may be as bored as you but she may not think you are interested in her sexual pleasure as much as your own.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> What concerns me is that the lack of sexual positions is reason enough for some people to want to put a marriage in peril. That seems so ridiculous. Is it now reasonable to leave a relationship in search of a women who is willing to contort herself for the sexual pleasure of her partner? I have a feeling that our expectation have become completely out of wack.


Keep in mind how important sex is, though. It's the one thing you do with a spouse that you (normally) don't do with friends. So yes, it is really that important. Otherwise, he could just be roommates with one of his friends instead.




> I am appealing to your sense of fairness. Sex should be mutually enjoyable. Is there any excitement for your wife in what you want her to do? If not , why should she extend herself?


It really irks me when people frame the problem this way. He's entitled to a fufilling sex life too. Why is it only "fairness" for him to forget about his desires? Now, don't get me wrong, as you said, sex should be mutually enjoyable, so it's better for them to go to therapy or seek some kind of compromise. 

It also doesn't seem terribly fair for her to be punishing her current husband for things that other men did to her in the past.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Theseus said:


> The term has been common for a long time among people who practice BDSM, because they consider their sex a whole level higher and more intense than the "vanillas".


I guess one man's/woman's "high" is another man/woman's low. Intense I would substitute with "grotesque". But that's just me.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Theseus said:


> Keep in mind how important sex is, though. It's the one thing you do with a spouse that you (normally) don't do with friends. So yes, it is really that important. Otherwise, he could just be roommates with one of his friends instead.
> 
> It really irks me when people frame the problem this way. He's entitled to a fufilling sex life too. Why is it only "fairness" for him to forget about his desires? Now, don't get me wrong, as you said, sex should be mutually enjoyable, so it's better for them to go to therapy or seek some kind of compromise.
> 
> It also doesn't seem terribly fair for her to be punishing her current husband for things that other men did to her in the past.


Maybe I missed it but I got the sense that they were having sex but she did not care to engage in any of the things he felt would excite him. 

It irks me when sex is considered an "either me or you" type of thing. It is usually the woman who is expected to do what her man wants to compensate him for having her as his only sexual outlet. 
Oh and sex is important. Important but how? Entertainment value, intense pleasure, pain inflicted or received , a talisman against boredom? Some people feel it is an expression of love and mutual pleasure. 

The fact that she has had issues with a previous partner is a something that she should process. But she needs to do it because she wants to get better. She will not be motivated if it is piut to her in terms of -" now that your problems are affecting my sex life, you'll have to fix it". If he wants her to get help because he cares about her that is one thing. If he wants her to do it for him he can put it to her honestly. 

There are two people with equal right to draw the line where they feel comfortable or to stretch as far as they are comfortable. The likes and dislikes seldom coincide. They can be made to coincide if the goal is mutual pleasure and it is a team effort. 

That's how it happens for me. If my husband thinks that I need to keep him sexually excited he never told me. It seems we are both of the same mind on this one. We want to keep what we have exciting and varied. He is the leader but I am a willing follower. 

I feel safe and that he will not hurt, humiliate, leave me unprotected or exposed or dispised. My pleasure, comfort and happiness is as important as his. That may not be true but he never does anything that makes me feel otherwise.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Should have dealt with this BEFORE in a marriage. Sexual compatibility IS important...so test the waters and make a choice before a commitment.

But he didn't. SO now he's got this problem. But leaving isn't an option. I dunno. She's probably not going to give in, so this is his stress to carry.


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## Cobre (Feb 24, 2013)

that_girl said:


> Should have dealt with this BEFORE in a marriage. Sexual compatibility IS important...so test the waters and make a choice before a commitment.
> 
> But he didn't. SO now he's got this problem. But leaving isn't an option. I dunno. She's probably not going to give in, so this is his stress to carry.


This is a very good point people that are mismatched either think it will get better once married or it is not a main focus between the couple and doesn’t get discussed by the couple befor hand. 

The test the waters part though can be contradictory to people who want to stay a virgin till marriage what happens in that case? 
*sorry i haven’t read every post of this thread i am tired tonight*


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## Loyal Lover (Jan 30, 2013)

Hetfield, I am curious, (pardon me if this was addressed and I missed it) how was the sex before you got married?

Also curious... how does your wife get so many injuries??? <_<


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## ozymandias (Sep 22, 2009)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> Excuses for having "vanilla" sex?


*Because porn isn't real life?*:scratchhead:


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

Loyal Lover said:


> Hetfield, I am curious, (pardon me if this was addressed and I missed it) how was the sex before you got married?
> 
> Also curious... how does your wife get so many injuries??? <_<


Thanks for the question Loyal Lover. Sex before we got married was good and both of us were satisfied. I did some things she had never been exposed to before and she loved it and she also did some things that I HAD been exposed to but did them better and resulted in that pre-marriage glow for both of us.

Like anything else that is repetitive, things can get stale. There isn't much fun involved when it's the same routine over and over. Each have a shower (once in awhile a shower together if kids are sound asleep), climb into bed, take turns giving oral to one another, she climbs on and rides for a few minutes until orgasm, then lays on her back and waits for me to finish inside her. Wash, rinse, repeat three nights later.

Know what I mean?

I've put other ideas forward like maybe playing some type of game prior to having sex; bringing blindfolds and feathers; or even something as simple as standing at bedside undressing each other...but she won't even let me take her shirt off or touch her sexually unless we are on the bed. It sounds weird but it's true.

As far as the injuries go, all I'm going to say is she had a run of bad luck. Separated shoulder after losing balance and falling, broken foot on a trip, dislocated rib after tripping and falling. In addition to that, she had previously broke the other foot playing soccer.


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> There are two people with equal right to draw the line where they feel comfortable or to stretch as far as they are comfortable. The likes and dislikes seldom coincide. They can be made to coincide if the goal is mutual pleasure and it is a team effort.
> 
> That's how it happens for me. If my husband thinks that I need to keep him sexually excited he never told me. It seems we are both of the same mind on this one. We want to keep what we have exciting and varied. He is the leader but I am a willing follower.
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I'm saying Catherine. She is not a willing follower, despite reassuring me she has complete trust in me that no one gets hurt mentally or physically and that it remains something just for the two of us and no one else.

I put her on a pedestal every waking minute. If she wants something sexual, she gets it with no questions asked and I do not try to change the subject or put up an objection because I know it is something she wants and, as a faithful loving husband, is my duty to provide.

I've tried to explain this concept to her that I have needs just like she does. But, she's said she is completely satisfied and doesn't want more and that I should just be happy that she's done more with me than with anyone else.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Hetfield said:


> Thanks for the question Loyal Lover. Sex before we got married was good and both of us were satisfied. I did some things she had never been exposed to before and she loved it and she also did some things that I HAD been exposed to but did them better and resulted in that pre-marriage glow for both of us.
> 
> Like anything else that is repetitive, things can get stale. There isn't much fun involved when it's the same routine over and over. Each have a shower (once in awhile a shower together if kids are sound asleep), climb into bed, take turns giving oral to one another, she climbs on and rides for a few minutes until orgasm, then lays on her back and waits for me to finish inside her. Wash, rinse, repeat three nights later.
> 
> ...


Hetfield, hate to say this, but you sound jaded! What you describe seems to be sexual perfection!:smthumbup:

Any way, the feathers thing reminds me of definitions:
Erotic: Using a feather on your lover.
Kinky: Using the whole chicken.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Hetfield said:


> This is exactly what I'm saying Catherine. She is not a willing follower, despite reassuring me she has complete trust in me that no one gets hurt mentally or physically and that it remains something just for the two of us and no one else.
> 
> I put her on a pedestal every waking minute. If she wants something sexual, she gets it with no questions asked and I do not try to change the subject or put up an objection because I know it is something she wants and, as a faithful loving husband, is my duty to provide.
> 
> I've tried to explain this concept to her that I have needs just like she does. But, she's said she is completely satisfied and doesn't want more and that I should just be happy that she's done more with me than with anyone else.


But we have a story on TAM of someone who had their spirit broken by their wife. He trusted her, but she began to seriously abuse him and refused to acknowledge their 'safe' word. 

I had a girl friend whose husband had hurt her very badly. To the point of hospitalisation. Sometimes even just my touching her would freak her out, if she wasn't expecting it.


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## Hetfield (Feb 7, 2010)

MattMatt said:


> Hetfield, hate to say this, but you sound jaded! What you describe seems to be sexual perfection!:smthumbup:


It's not sexual perfection I'm seeking. I'm simply wanting variety every now and then...not all the time. I think maybe it's a little unclear -- I am happy with how things are -- but that's not how life should be.

Imagine never traveling. Imagine watching the same TV show over and over. Imagine always eating the same thing for supper every night.

If it weren't for some curious people who wanted to see what else was out there, we would have never sent a man to the moon. Curiosity and exploration is what defines us as human beings. Does this mean it shouldn't extend into the bedroom as well?


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Theseus said:


> It really irks me when people frame the problem this way. He's entitled to a fufilling sex life too. Why is it only "fairness" for him to forget about his desires? Now, don't get me wrong, as you said, sex should be mutually enjoyable, so it's better for them to go to therapy or seek some kind of compromise.
> 
> *It also doesn't seem terribly fair for her to be punishing her current husband for things that other men did to her in the past*.


:smthumbup::iagree:

Indeed. Absolutely not fair at all.

And certainly not for the best. Not for both parties.


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