# If only I knew the real truth



## march16 (Mar 16, 2013)

I have been here before, two years ago, and here we go again. Last time I caught my husband texting inappropriate stuff with a co-worker. He denied any relationship, said it was nothing, they were just friends, we both swept it under the rug, and carried on like nothing happened. The other day I accidentally discovered a conversation through facebook messenger with a workmate .....

Woman: Good song  (with a link to Sam Smiths song - Lay me down)
Him: Yes it is
Woman: My song also
Woman: To you
Him: Straight back at ya
Woman:See ya tomorrow 
Him: Will Do  (kiss emoticon)
Woman: (Kiss emoticon) and (finger pointing back)

When I approached him about this conversation that night he said nothing was going on, saying he was so sorry if I thought that, that he would never cheat on me etc. I told him that I had been suspicious of this workmate friendship for a while. Because ......

At a party we were all at together, she was being over friendly to him ie hugging up to him for support when she had a bit to much to drink ..... I thought ok I could work myself up about this but instead gave them the benefit of the doubt. (She is much younger, very attractive and actually engaged to be married - all factors making me think I was over reacting).

He always mentions her in conversations about work. 

We went to the beach one day and she happened to be there with a friend, she said hello to him but didn't stop and talk to us together - then down on the beach they sat about 15 metres in front of us ..... am I jumping to conclusions or was she there to parade in front of him in her bikini top?

And this is the biggie .......I was away for the weekend with the children and he went out with a group of workmates - her and the fiancé included, and ended up staying the night with all of them because they were drinking - and he got a ride to work with them in the morning. - yes it sounds as cliché written down as it does saying it! He swears nothing happened that he slept in the spare room etc and there were plenty of people there.


So I told him about all of my suspicions when I confronted him about the messenger conversation. Deny Deny Deny. I told him that it was not fair on me, and that I would be out of here if there was something going on. We went to bed in silence.

He starts work early in the morning so we did not talk before he left for work. It took me all the strength I could muster to carry on normally get our children to school and go to work the next day. When I got home my legs and arms were like lead, I knew that I had jumped the gun - given them time to sort a story, make excuses etc. When he came home he was the picture of concern, worry, etc. Asking if I was ok, that he had talked to her and she was mortified that I had thought this. He admitted that they talk heaps at work - 40 minutes added up during the day - she shares everything with him, he admitted that some people in his workplace might think there is something going on because of how often they talk. I said what about the fiancé? She was going to tell him what I thought - but the fiancé is in the same workplace and my husband gets on with him also ..... he said that he would understand their friendship.

So, that was the Friday, now it is Tuesday - I have not asked if they talked yesterday - what the fiancé said etc etc. I believe my husband thinks we are going to brush this under the rug as well, that all is forgiven and I believe him when he says it is just a friendship. I have shared this all with one friend - she says it is all pretty messed up - not to trust its just a friendship. What do I do from here? Communication is at a stand still. To make things more complicated there has been a bereavement within our circle of friends in the last few days - we are both devastated about this so emotions are running high - the mixture of these emotions is hideous - I can't separate what I am feeling - but both mixed together is so awful - and I can't help thinking he believes he is off the hook because we are grieving.

Other factors that I have been adding together ..... he has started a health kick - working out, listening to new music, when he used to love older stuff.

And when I went to show him the message I was talking about, he had deleted it already - but not other older harmless messages with other contacts. 

We have been married for 12 years, I thought we were happy, until 2 years ago - then I thought we had moved on and were happy again, until now.

help


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## march16 (Mar 16, 2013)

Oh and the song thing they told me is a workplace joke - I don't get it. They call dibs on a song - that's why its her song.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*So sorry to say that your H is nothing more than a boldface liar! Always trust your gut instinct! Where there's smoke ~ there's fire! I fully think that his illicit relationship with this woman has already escalated from EA to PA!

You've already caught him with the texts and to try to keep you at bay, he's fastly gone into denial mode. It's high time for a "Come to Jesus" meeting, and if he doesn't comply, then show him the door and get yourself to an attorney's office. And execute "the 180" on him!

You might also want to get yourself checked out by an MD for the presence of STD's! *


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Get a Sony var at bestbuy, Walmart or Costco. Use heavy duty Velcro to stick it under his seat.

Do you have access to phone records?


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

Sounds just like my story. The OW was married. Her & her H were both customers of my H. We had meany arguments about her. My H also started listening to new music even got me to make him a CD. I found out later it was all their favorite Love songs to each other. They would go off & park & listen to it when they were making out & having sex. Don't let this slide. keep your eyes open & investigate. If I had to bet. My money would be on their having an affair.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

All I can add is that men and women are friends, a lot of times one or the other are thinking about f-king. When they get handsy pansy sweet talking each other, they both are. 
There is a good chance with her fiance in the picture, she's playing both these stooges.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

ThePheonix said:


> All *I can add is that men and women are friends, a lot of times one or the other are thinking about f-king.* When they get handsy pansy sweet talking each other, they both are.
> There is a good chance with her fiance in the picture, she's playing both these stooges.


Not a lot of times. Every time.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Personally, I would ask him if he's willing to be in a marriage where he does not have female friends and is not texting females. If he says no, then file for divorce. It's obvious that his current boundaries are incompatible with marriage.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

in my signature is weightlifters evidence thread. read it.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

march16 said:


> I have been here before, two years ago, and here we go again. Last time I caught my husband texting inappropriate stuff with a co-worker. He denied any relationship, said it was nothing, they were just friends, we both swept it under the rug, and carried on like nothing happened. The other day I accidentally discovered a conversation through facebook messenger with a workmate .....
> 
> Woman: Good song  (with a link to Sam Smiths song - Lay me down)
> Him: Yes it is
> ...


 Your hyper vigilance and attention to detail is your inner warning system telling you something is off, and although most would consider this to be a jealous factor jealousy is a warning from potential threats and she is a threat. His working out and dieting is to make an impression and it is not aimed for your benefit. His listening to newer music is also the most underrated aspect of the insipid stage of an affair, as he is trying to either find or develop more mutual interests.

He is in an Emotional Affair at the very least, and if it hasn't reached that point yet it will in time become a physical one. There is no such thing as just friends with new people of the opposite sex after a certain age, the one's who are grandfathered in after a relationship starts are acceptable but still no less dangerous to a relationship than a stranger. This is not healthy for you, this is not him just being himself, this is not a phase and this is not something you pushed him to do. This is a problem.

It is time to kick his a55 and push back on this woman and unless you can get hard solid proof of unacceptable texts, e-mails etc or proof of them being together alone then do not depend on her husband to intervene and catch them on you behalf, as he too is being fleeced. I mean, think about it, what healthy and sane husband would allow and be enthused at a married man staying with him and his wife for the evening? Unless they are swingers which makes your job even worse. 

In either case, you are in control from here on out, so get your game face on and c*nt punt this b1tch out of the picture and kindly let your husband know that no one else is allowed to play in the marital sandbox....


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## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

march16 said:


> Oh and the song thing they told me is a workplace joke - I don't get it. They call dibs on a song - that's why its her song.


I bet the "workplace joke" is really just between your WH and OW. How old is OW? 16? Seriously calling "dibs" on a song? And now your WH has taken a sudden interest in her "type" of music. Red flag!

Severe boundry issues for both your WH and OW. You need to Barney Fife this thing and nip it in the bud. My WW started out a workplace relationship with a coworker who turned into POSOM and their relationship spun into EA and then PA. If I had paid more attention to my "gut feelings" I might could have stopped the A.

Your WH didn't learn his leason 2 years ago and now the office hottie has got his attention. It's time for the "come to Jesus" talk for your WH. Lay it on the line. Stop the relationship with OW. Work on being a better H and father to the kids. If he is unwilling to abide by your rules then be willing to take drastic measures.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Sorry march, that you are going through this.

I know you are afraid to press on this, allowed this rugsweep, because of what it will do to your family security...particularly the kids. Here is the thing, right now, you may feel like YOU are the responsible party for destroying the family of you press on this, but this is your husband's doing, not yours!

Gauge this very second on how you feel and your physical reaction to you recent discovery and his alibis. I bet you are extremely hypervigilant, panicked, fearful, maybe had even been physically shaking...att he same time you are probably confused, feel out of sorts, and everytime you talk to our husband, things that you were so certain about, now just seem like craziness...and you wonder if you are losing it?

You are not crazy; you are just being manipulated to IGNORE what your intuition and evidence is plainly revealing...that this stinks! This situation and the lying is going to compromise your mental state. Now husband is probably going to smother you with lots of appeasing behavior to calm you down, to pacify you from doing anything about it...to keep things how he likes it: "I can have a loyal wife, a family with all of the benefits AND get my peepee played with and get my boyhood thrills from my hot coworker."

He has not counted the risk and the cost of his actions. Previously, he didn't have to...because it was rugswept, thus he got a handslap and he got smarter about hiding. Except cheaters get comfortable after a while again...and he slipped up. It won't happen in front of you again. This is going underground. I say kick him out of the house, but if you want time to be sure...get a VAR like mentioned above...but also be on the lookout for extra hours at work or more frequent excusing for grocery store runs without kids or overnight business trips. He will probably get a burner phone now too...which is why you need a VAR.

I am only bring up those alternatives...because I am under the impression that you still want to try to salvage this because of all that you stand to lose. Thing is...you lost this already...your marriage is just being held up by matchsticks. Reconciliation is going to require you to make a hard stand...and get in his face...demanding no more contact, job change, emergency marriage counseling, probably a season of separation with the intent of working out issues until H has demonstrated his commitment. 

Take the power cards...force him to make a choice. If he wants the marriage and an intact family...then this is what he MUST DO. If he wants the young tail at work, he is allowed to leave, have all the tail he wants sleeping in his cheap unfurnished apartment, and get to pay massive child support until the kids are 18 and he gets to lose half of everything. Don't beg him or appeal to his morality or senses. Be swift and firm like a hammer...and DO what you say you will do...no false threats to get a reaction or a tear from his eye.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

I wonder what this POS husband and the little tart about to be married would think if OP texted her fiancé saying she dedicates the song "Lets Get Drunk and Screw" to him.

Really? kissing emoticons and Considering a song called "Lay Me Down" to each other?

They are both full of sh*t. I'd contact her fiancé and if anyway to take a screenshot of the facebook conversation and send it to him.

See if he thinks its no big deal.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

I agree with Vellocet. Put them in your shoes. See what he thinks..

I am starting to wonder about this OW's fiance' is he a cuckold, clueless, are they underground when dealing with him or is he an open relationship guy ?? Or if they are just joking around, it has clearly been inappropriate.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

I agree with what you said, except the cuckold part. The fiancé probably is oblivious to what an unworthy person he is about to marry.

As far as march16, what do you plan to do about this? He was engaging, at the very least, an emotional affair. You know it, he knows it. At the very least this OW's fiancé needs to also know it so he may make a decision whether to enter marriage with her.

At least that way her fiancé will have a choice before marrying.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You already know much of the truth, which is that your husband is hiding things and lying to you.

Stay under the radar as you investigate. Get proof of the infidelity, which is already in at least an EA stage.

Somehow I think that if you start to investigate you will find that what you have seen is just the tip of the iceberg, not just with her, but with other women.

Best of luck to you.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Yeah I hate to say it, but it seems like there is an awful lot of smoke here for there to not be any fire, but I don't know if it is concrete enough to be proof of anything for certain, which is what you really need/want here. I'd say you have enough justification to start snooping on him with a VAR in his car, maybe trying to sneak access to his phone or social media/email accounts, etc. If you find anything concrete, I'd definitely suggest contacting the OW's fiance. If you happen to consider any of his co-workers to be friends of your own in some form, you might also reach out to them with your suspicions to ask what they have seen or what they think might or might not be going on.

(In some of my jobs, my wife had come to know some of my co-workers or their spouses and became friends independent of me)


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## march16 (Mar 16, 2013)

Thanks everyone it feels good to share, and have some advice - I do have a photo of the conversation, because I suspected that it might be deleted quickly ..... he doesn't know I have a copy, that is one piece of evidence I have, yes I have considered trying to get in touch with the fiancé, but at the moment I feel like they all think I am a psycho jealous wife, and all laughing behind my back, fiancé included.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

It's not a laughing matter if you are not comfortable with it. Perhaps you should confront the whole group and threaten to take the matter to HR if it doesn't stop. Unless you take a stand, this will keep going on. People have to realize there are friendly relationships at work and there are those that cross the line. This one crosses the line.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

The whole 'psycho' thing is very effective at keeping a betrayed spouse from doing what is necessary to discover the truth. It's what is known as 'gaslighting.'

An office environment is like a second home and family. The people there develop their own socially cohesive dynamic. You are not part of your H's office dynamic. If your H is too much into it, then his own family is backgrounded, sidelined, and made secondary. You, the 'jealous, psycho' wife, are the outsider. Proper boundaries must be in effect to make sure that the office family doesn't meld with and overtake the real family. Your H doesn't have proper boundaries and this is a big problem for you.

Try not to be stopped by the 'jealous, psycho' thing. You might be some two-dimensional non-reality for his co-workers, but you aren't for him. Do the digging you need to do. Get a VAR. That, unfortunately, always works.


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## march16 (Mar 16, 2013)

Finally asked him how the fiancé had reacted - he is ok with it because he understands the friendship apparently. She has also confided in her friend who she flats with, and who is also a co worker, who also is friendly with my husband at work. I asked what they thought of me, that they will be having a great laugh behind my back. He says they understand how I could take it the wrong way ....... I will never know what is really going on, will I. I asked him did he not think it was wrong to be friendly with younger females like this - he says he will not stop being friends with them and doesn't see anything wrong with it. F*@k.


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## cgiles (Dec 10, 2014)

In case you need to dig for find what your guts feel, read this post : http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I'm not one who believes in coincidences. Her popping up at the beach... Uh huh. As far as the party goes, how do you know his fiancé was there? He told you? Uh huh. Calling dibs on songs? Uh huh.

At this point they are taking it further underground. Do not say another word about it. Be very very quiet. Monitor quietly, smile and play happy wife in the meantime. Q-tip and Cgiles above linked to evidence gathering thread. Check it out.

Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

I agree with Philly. What you have now give too much room for plausible deniability and has you second guessing yourself. You want something you can hang your hat on.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Liar, Liar, pants on fire....


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Now, why on EARTH would "some people" within the workplace think they might be having an affair???:scratchhead:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

If he is unwilling to end this friendship, even if it costs him YOU..... what does that tell you? He values this "friendship" over your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## knightRider (Dec 31, 2014)

march16, 

sorry to hear about this. You must get some type of VAR on your husband. I have used a pen VAR and it has been very usesful on catching my wife back stabbing me. 

As others have said do not confront your hubby until you get more evidence. Play it cool, be strong and concentrate on yourself.

Good luck!


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## knightRider (Dec 31, 2014)

You can also put monitor software on his phone, very usesful as it can GPS track him and see his text messages....


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## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

march16 said:


> I asked him did he not think it was wrong to be friendly with younger females like this - he says he will not stop being friends with them and doesn't see anything wrong with it. F*@k.


Cake eater. I posted earlier he has severe boundary issues.

So you are supposed to make him a priority in your life but you aren't a priority in his? It's real simple he can be a man and pick you over any "friendship" he has with these OW. If he is unwilling to do that then I think you know your M has some real problems and it's likely other things are going on that you don't know about.


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## march16 (Mar 16, 2013)

How do I put software on his phone? and he is over compensating and trying to be the caring husband and father now.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html

This thread has some very useful information on phone trackers, etc.

Software is always getting updated so do your research, ask questions here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## march16 (Mar 16, 2013)

Update: The subject has not been brought up, I have done my best to carry on as normal, there have been no text messages or phone calls because I have been monitoring phone records, I have no way of monitoring facebook messenger though, and when I have been able to look at his phone all facebook messenger history has been deleted now. I am not having trouble acting like nothing has happened in conversation etc, but we have not had sex since I discovered the messages etc, and now the pressure is being put on, for this to be back to normal as well - how do I play it cool here? Carry on like nothing is going on to help with the illusion that nothing is wrong - or confront again, saying that nothing will be happening until I know the truth - making him hide even more? I don't know, I wish it was easier to know everything for sure. My gut tells me they are playing it cool - but they still have the chance to talk at work, my heart is wishing and hoping that he is telling the truth and nothing happened. I would like to talk to a mutual friend that works with him to see what he thinks, but his wife is a gossip and I am afraid it will be spread everywhere


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

march16 said:


> How do I put software on his phone? and he is over compensating and trying to be the caring husband and father now.


What kind of phone does he have?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

march16 said:


> Update: The subject has not been brought up, I have done my best to carry on as normal, there have been no text messages or phone calls because I have been monitoring phone records, I have no way of monitoring facebook messenger though, and when I have been able to look at his phone all facebook messenger history has been deleted now. I am not having trouble acting like nothing has happened in conversation etc, but we have not had sex since I discovered the messages etc, and now the pressure is being put on, for this to be back to normal as well - how do I play it cool here? Carry on like nothing is going on to help with the illusion that nothing is wrong - or confront again, saying that nothing will be happening until I know the truth - making him hide even more? I don't know, I wish it was easier to know everything for sure. My gut tells me they are playing it cool - but they still have the chance to talk at work, my heart is wishing and hoping that he is telling the truth and nothing happened. I would like to talk to a mutual friend that works with him to see what he thinks, but his wife is a gossip and I am afraid it will be spread everywhere


Keep playing it cool and put a VAR in the car.

I'd recommend the Sony ICDPX-333. It usually goes for $50-60 at Best Buy. Pair it w/ lithium batteries and heavy-duty Velcro to get the best bang for your buck.

Read weightlifter's "Standard Evidence Post" thread for additional info and tips re: VAR configuration, placement, etc.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Would he be okay if you had some male friends over and you sent one of them "her song"? 

Do not care about the gossip, but do ask the person at work, and send the text to her finance.

After 12 years together, do you have children? 

Not to minimize your pain, but just wanted to consider the impact on any children.

Do some things for yourself. Your H would not like it if you had the same poor boundaries.


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## mjalex (Mar 5, 2015)

I'm not convinced that he is directly cheating in the standard manner, though it is clear that something is going on.

If he is a liar, which it seems to be so, then there's nothing stopping him from lying over and over, which explains the constant denial. 

The question is what to do. If nothing is going on, it grows increasingly harder to accuse him of anything, though even the conversations aren't fair to you.

Have you talked about boundaries of cheating in the relationship? It's possible to have friends of course, but this one may be getting a little too friendly. While it may be more of a friendship than anything else, he may be hiding it from you so you can't stop it. Men are strange like that...

See how he responds to his definition of cheating. I'd say this is a decent first step. If you're able to set the boundaries, everything will be a little bit more clear.


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## Shoshannah (Aug 29, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Keep playing it cool and put a VAR in the car.
> 
> I'd recommend the Sony ICDPX-333. It usually goes for $50-60 at Best Buy. Pair it w/ lithium batteries and heavy-duty Velcro to get the best bang for your buck.
> 
> Read weightlifter's "Standard Evidence Post" thread for additional info and tips re: VAR configuration, placement, etc.


 VAR the car. That's your best hope. It works.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

I'm confused about the entire thing. The OW is engaged, right? What does the OW gain by a PA? Sure, an EA can make them both feel good, but if it has gone to the "I love you" stage it makes no sense.

And if the word is out at the workplace, something is very strange about the OW's fiancee. He should care more than he does.

There is some thing just not right about this entire situation.


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## Slipping (Nov 20, 2014)

You dont need to know the truth from his mouth. You need to know what you are willing to put up with. 

I asked my husband every single time something shady happened for the truth, and you know what I got? The same thing you are getting, a LIE. He wants to keep you, and do whatever he wants. 

Because the truth is its very easy to have a relationship with someone of the opposite sex and have nothing sexual going on with them. I spend alot of my time training ground fighting. There are times Im the only female in classes of 20 men. And most of the men I have trained with have had their heads between my legs, and Ive had their balls in my face. I know their wives and girlfriends, and they know any time I touch their husband or they touch me, there is a line we would never cross. And NOTHING sexual has ever happened, and a majority of the men consider me their little sister. The few that have tried to take it some where else, have gotten ignored. NOW there is a girl who sleeps with everyones husband in the gym, and the men who allow it, do it. The men who dont want it, ignore her. Its that simple. Its really not hard at all.

As my therapist has told me, what do you need to know anymore of the truth for? Dont you know enough? Isnt it enough to say, OK this man isnt respecting me the way I want to be respected? I am a snooper as well, and it has made me find out things that cause me to cry daily. For the past 4 months a day hasnt gone by that I havent cried and questioned myself. I would base your decision off of what you already know. 1- He is having inappropriate relationships with co workers 2- He hasnt come home because of it


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Here is what I would do:

When he approaches you for sex, you pull out the flyer for the polygraph company and say "As soon as you have scheduled - and taken - and passed - the polygraph, I will have sex with you again. Until then, I am protecting my health by refusing to have sex with you."


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## march16 (Mar 16, 2013)

Update: So as everyone suggested I have stayed calm and kept my eyes open. Yesterday a slip-up, a message on his phone not deleted from her, it was another messenger conversation "you could always come over to the other side...." whatever that means.
Couldn't help myself, confronted, said hand over your password to Hotmail address, so I can see messenger notifications, and copy of the messages, he says no that email no longer exists, but it has to doesn't it? you can't have a facebook account without an existing, functioning email address? can anyone tell me? Anyway denies Hotmail account exists, huge one-way tirade from me about how I feel etc, he saying they are just friends, that this one message is the only messenging they have done since last time...... Today I downloaded keylogger on computer because I bet his next move now will be to really delete that email address, or its contents, so I will have some evidence if he trys it. I think he is on to me doing this though.... I'm such a wimp, im too scared to ask the workmate of his that might shine some light on what is going on at work. Today was a long day, back to the beginning of feeling like a lead weight, even have a sore neck today, I think my body is physically manifesting my mental pain now. Feeling like sh.t. My kids are all that are keeping me functioning, otherwise I would be in the foetal position in bed asleep all day I think. He tells me there is nothing going on, I am making things to hard on myself, that she is just a friend that is all and why can't I believe him? ...... why can't I believe him - does he believe this himself? This is the only place I get to vent, no-one else knows, he no doubt discusses it with her at work during the day.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why can't you just file for divorce?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Yo, so in 2015, anytime people are texting kissy emojis all undercover and sh*t, it means something is going on. And of course he denied it, duh. What? Did you expect him to be honest and tell you the truth? 

Sounds like he has a penchant for his co-workers, being that this is the second time.

Yes, someting inapprops is going on and if I were you, I'd find her fiance on Facebook and totally call her a$$ out. Send him a message sayin g"Your fiance is sexting/flirting with m y usband I thought you should know before you head down the aisle." Do thi without informing your husband cause he'll just get even more sneaky. He's hip to you knowing now so he's gonna hide it better. Trust that.

When it walks like a duck, quacks, and all that other jazz, it's a DUCK.

He is the duck.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

turnera said:


> Why can't you just file for divorce?


I agree with Turnera. You already know the truth anything more than this is just a headache. 

Actions speak louder than words. Clearly he doesn't care enough to listen to you so then show him.

Clay


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Even if you don't want to divorce him, please trust us to know, when we say the ONLY way he will ever stop cheating is if he sees you with one foot out the door. He has no REASON to stop unless he risks losing you.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

march16 said:


> I have been here before, *two years ago, and here we go again*. *Last time I caught my husband texting inappropriate stuff with a co-worker.* He denied any relationship, said it was nothing, they were just friends, we both swept it under the rug, and carried on like nothing happened. The other day I accidentally *discovered a conversation through facebook messenger with a workmate *.....
> 
> Woman: Good song  (with a link to Sam Smiths song - Lay me down)
> Him: Yes it is
> ...


:rofl: at the fact he said the fiance would be totally ok with the fact other people thing something is going on with them. That is a LIE. No man would be ok with that.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Also, this is giving me flashbacks to the guy I was dating who when I was hanging out with him/laying on him was texting. The scree said "Can't wait to kiss you all over your body - kiss emoji face'" and he had replied "Me either" with a kiss face emoji back. No name was saved to the contact and when I asked who it was he said it was his guy pal from out of state and jammed phone in his pocket, went to bathroom sand said he wouldn't discuss it with me further - that I could choose to believe him or not. 

Ooooooooooooookay.

I really do not think he was texting his guy pal.


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## march16 (Mar 16, 2013)

If it was only me, I would probably leave to show him I mean business, I don't want to hurt my kids.


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## Trying95 (May 24, 2013)

I understand not wanting to hurt kids, but they know when things are not right between their parents and they will be more hurt if you continue trying to pretend everything is ok and continue being desperately unhappy. He is seriously disrespecting you and your marriage and your kids. Refusing to give up these types of friendships shows he is being selfish and putting his wants and needs before the rest of his family and his marriage. You need to play hardball. I understand the fear and wanting to believe everything is ok..but it isn't. You will hopefully come to that realization soon. You need to start separating yourself from the mourning of your relationship and start looking out for yourself and your kids. Find your inner strength.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

The problem you have is that your threats are completely toothless. As far as he is concerned, he can put up with a little whining and can have his cake and eat it, too.

Do the actual work to find out what really is going on. Put a VAR in his car. This sadly seems to work every time.

Once you have some real proof, you will either feel better that he is not cheating (don't really believe this), or you will know that he is unfaithful.

When you know, you can decide to R or D.

Without real proof, the sorts of threats you are making will be ineffective. You are like an annoying fly buzzing around his head. He notices you, but certainly isn't afraid of you.

If you continue to threaten without proof, you have to back up the threats. This means that you walk out the door.

Those are your two choices, in my opinion. You get some serious proof to support whatever decision you make, or you demand that he come clean and when he lies again (which he will), you leave. You actually do it. You break up your family, because that is the only action that will show him that you are serious and not just whining.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

march16 said:


> If it was only me, I would probably leave to show him I mean business, I don't want to hurt my kids.


You know what really hurts kids? Teaching them it's ok to live in harmful or dysfunctional situations, because children BECOME their parents. Do you want to teach them to accept the crap he pulls and BECOME the same person? Or do you want to teach them to FIX bad situations?


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

march16 said:


> Couldn't help myself, confronted


You'll never get the truth from him. Confronting him only sends him deeper into secrecy and he'll be more likely to cover his tracks and make it difficuilt to find anything.

Him deleting his FB history is more than enough "evidence" for most people. He's hiding things from you, what more do you need? Obviously you need more so get some self control and get going with the VAR and other tools suggested to you almost 2 months ago.



march16 said:


> you can't have a facebook account without an existing, functioning email address? can anyone tell me?


Yes, you can. 



march16 said:


> Today I downloaded keylogger on computer .


Great! You'll get more answers from that than you will from him.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

turnera said:


> You know what really hurts kids? Teaching them it's ok to live in harmful or dysfunctional situations, because children BECOME their parents. Do you want to teach them to accept the crap he pulls and BECOME the same person? Or do you want to teach them to FIX bad situations?


Trust this piece of advice. It will make a difference in your resolve.  Good move on getting the keylogger installed. It was how I caught my ex.

You need to stay cool. Focus on the kids and ignore him as best as you can. The time to confront will be better when you have your evidence. And again, don't buy that psycho wife stuff. Listen to your gut. It's telling you something is off.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

The sext he deleted was a declaration of independence from boxers and panties, if she would bother wearing them when gets your husband alone. You want to save your relationship for your children's sake. Your husband will repect and love you more if you express righteous but dignified anger. OW is not a keeper. Your husband probably knows it. She strokes his ego like a teenager. Tell him that his receptivity to her BS lowers your respect for im.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## march16 (Mar 16, 2013)

lenzi said:


> Yes, you can.


He told me that the email address he started his facebook with will no longer exist because it has not been used (he said he received an email notification saying it would be deleted/ I don't believe this because why would an email telling him this come to our joint email address?) - because I know if it does exist the history of messenger/s received will still be logged on there. This will mean confronting again to get the password/s, or waiting who knows how long for him to enter into it on our computer - I did hope that he would have done this straight after I last asked him about the email address, which is why I installed keylogger to keep track of password and what he deleted, but nothing so far, no more messages I know about. So this is why I was wondering about the facebook email thing. It is a Hotmail email address.
Has anyone got advice on keyloggers for android phones, which are the best to go with?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Hon, your husband is full of sheet and you know it. You don't sound like you're at the point where you're ready to fully accept that, and that's ok because you will get there. But it's not until you're willing to lose the marriage that this will resolve one way or the other, so until then you'll live in limbo and make yourself crazy.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish by confronting him on every small slip-up. You're losing your power with every confrontation. Let me be honest: you're terrible at this dear!

So listen to the advice given to you and FILE FOR DIVORCE. You will do it eventually anyway. Your husband is a cheater. You don't really need any evidence. It's what he is by his own admission. 

"We're just friends" = "We don't f*** each other as much as you think"


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You can always cancel a divorce. Who knows, it may wake him up?


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## march16 (Mar 16, 2013)

Yes, no denying it I am really bad at this.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Hotmail accounts don't get deleted due to inactivity. They have to be deleted by the owner. Once you delete, you have to not log in for 90 days otherwise it reactivates. I know this for a fact.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

march16 said:


> Yes, no denying it I am really bad at this.


March, 

You state... "I am really bad at this". 

No you aren't. Faithful spouses are wired to assume the best. Their chosen mate would never betray or lie, break the vows that bind. I have been there... they do and can lie, minimize, shift blame and show absolutely no guilt or shame. 

You asks... "If I knew the real truth"

Hear a real truth, even if they admit to cheating, they will never tell the whole Truth. Things said and done in the dark cover of infidelity will always be mystery for you. Sorry, but cheaters will minimize to the grave. They will cover their lies, their deceit with reasoning as to not hurt you any further. You can spend the rest of your life searching for the truth, uncover mountains of betrayal... there is always more. 

My advice... make peace with yourself, regardless of R or D.


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## nightmare01 (Oct 3, 2014)

Try this

Keep a journal. Write down anything that seems off. Then play the lawyer and argue for the innocence of your husband. If you loose that argument you have your answer.

Keep this up until you are comfortable one way or the other.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

march16 said:


> Yes, no denying it I am really bad at this.


I think you're beginning to understand how these things work. I noticed that you're reading other people's stories (by your posts). This will help a lot in your education on relationships. I never once imagined that I would come to know so much about infidelity until it happened to me and I came here.


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## march16 (Mar 16, 2013)

Update: The night before last he was hovering around his phone, and said he was thinking about going and watching some sport.....I won't go into details, but I knew the fiancé would be playing, and guessed she would be there and there would possibly be a meeting. And bingo yesterday afternoon I caught the end of another messenger conversation, only the very end - that he hadn't deleted it was just a 'Like' from her. I deleted it so he would not suspect I had seen anything. Watched him as he said 'I think I will go out and watch that game'. Let him go. He was home just after it finished, knew the score, talked about who was there etc. I tried not to say anything, but with this extra evidence I confronted - I said I see you had a conversation today after work - didn't tell him how I found out, he admitted it, admitted that she was at the game, admitted that he gave her a ride home from work this week and has done before, along with all the excuses why. Trickle truth, it slowly starts coming out now. So my ultimatum 'If there is anything else I am leaving you' scared the crap out of him - I can tell he knows I mean it. We are going to open that email account together because I have demanded it - I told him I know it has to exist - he has no access apart from our home computer to clean it up, which is keylogged so maybe more will be revealed later. 

And this was probably the wrong move - but I told him if our relationship falls down around us, she is coming down with it - they don't know I have kept some evidence.

Yes, I have probably jumped the gun, but if I have made a mistake I am going to have to learn the hard lesson for myself, I am winging it, with help of a selection of the advice everyone has given me here. To my advantage I was able to stay calm and very emotionless (Ive used it all up) when I delivered the news, which I think is making him feel really uneasy - he's the emotional one at the moment - but then when more truth trickles out I'll probably be back to square one.

This always looks so much worse when I type it out, I spend a lot of time telling myself I am imagining things, that this isn't as bad as it looks, I'm not imagining it am I.


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## march16 (Mar 16, 2013)

nightmare01 said:


> Try this
> 
> Keep a journal. Write down anything that seems off. Then play the lawyer and argue for the innocence of your husband. If you loose that argument you have your answer.
> 
> Keep this up until you are comfortable one way or the other.


I've been doing this, thanks for this advice


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## Shoshannah (Aug 29, 2012)

Well done. You are getting stronger!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No, you're not imagining it.

IIWY, I'd also visit a lawyer just for a consultation so you know your rights. If you have another issue, and you start 'speaking' your rights to him and what you can expect, he will know for sure he's about to lose everything. I don't sense you're really ready to leave him, so get the info to help you make your case.

And I just have to ask: why didn't you follow him to the game with a camera?


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## march16 (Mar 16, 2013)

I had the kids at home with me - they would have wondered why we were off to the game to take photos of dad. Small area, I would have been seen, though this is also in my favour, I will be casually asking those he said were there, that they did see him there.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Your WH isn't going to stop until he sees you walking out the door. All this time he has been managing you to get what he wants. He believes that there will be no serious consequences.

If you don't draw a real line in the sand, your torture will only continue.

Please think about it. He is OK with torturing you as long as he can continue doing this. He is OK with your anxiety and hurt.

Don't let anyone control you this way. Show him the real, ultimate consequences and do it before he has gaslighted you into insanity.

He stops now or he leaves.


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## Emily J (Mar 23, 2015)

Keeping up with how you're doing and sending you strength - you're doing really well. It must have been hell for you when he was out at the game. Keep writing that journal, I'm doing the same thing. xx


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## march16 (Mar 16, 2013)

Update: Got email password, it hadn't been opened in such a long time - Hotmail has now changed how you access it - through outlook now (same address etc) but no history on it at all...?.. . I also have discovered facebook password (he does not know I have it) have logged in on my phone, and receive all updates notifications etc that he gets, so if there is any contact there I will know about it. I think I am in for a long wait though until he thinks the coast is clear etc - I estimate it will be in about two weeks - that's the pattern this far. Can't see any other chat apps etc on phone they would use - then again they see each other during work.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

march16 said:


> Update: Got email password, it hadn't been opened in such a long time - Hotmail has now changed how you access it - through outlook now (same address etc) but no history on it at all...?.. . I also have discovered facebook password (he does not know I have it) have logged in on my phone, and receive all updates notifications etc that he gets, so if there is any contact there I will know about it. I think I am in for a long wait though until he thinks the coast is clear etc - I estimate it will be in about two weeks - that's the pattern this far. Can't see any other chat apps etc on phone they would use - then again they see each other during work.


If waiting is what is needed you do that, slowly but surely with no indication of what you are up to. Your patience will pay off. Good luck!


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## Emily J (Mar 23, 2015)

God, you sound so like me right now. I feel like Im in limbo, just waiting for the next round of crap, stuck in a loop of checking everything I can think to check, berating myself for being weak, and then feeling temporarily okay before it crashes in on me again. It's a crap cycle to be stuck in. Having them work together must be hideous. Sending a big, be-strong supportive hug.


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