# Should I be concern?



## DesertRatinUT (Aug 15, 2012)

Okay, first post here and I need some advice. My wife and I have been in a sexless marriage now for 3 years, 2 months as of the 23rd of this month (August). My wife suffers from low back pain (so do I) and she went on Topamax (3 years and 5 months ago) for her migraines about 4 months before losing her sex drive and based on research, I blame the Topamax for part of the lost libido on her part. We have been married for just over 24 years and 2 months and before the Topamax we had an active sex life. The last couple of times we did it, it was her lying there to allow me and to be honest, that is not what I want or need emotionally or physically. My wife and I had a frank conversation about a year ago about our intimate life and that a few things we had done in the past were no longer comfortable for her, and that was no biggie, as I agreed to not included those things in that aspect of our married life. 

I've talked with my wife and our doctor and he is willing to put her on a different medication that will still help her migraines but she won't do anything about it. I've pleaded for us to go to counseling, nothing, though I've gone. Of late, I have had a sneaking suspicion she might be having an affair and that has been reinforced of late. Here is why and I need to know if I am being paranoid, and if not, how to confront this. 

My wife got a new job about a month ago, and that meant leaving her old job. One day I texted her about doing something for her mother (it was mailing her mother's taxes, whether to overnight or to mail, my wife is her mother's trustee) and now I have access to my wife's gmail account so I went in there to see if I could find when the accountant wanted the taxes. At that point I found that she was emailing with a former co-worker. This raised an eyebrow because a month before he had offered for her to come over to his house and pick cherries (he has a couple of cherry trees) and said "And wear a thong." My wife told this to me and said he was like this all the time with her. I said that wasn't appropriate. Well, I mentioned in the text to my wife that I found it funny she could respond instantly to "Mark", her co-worker and ignore my text and that was an hour after the first one. I then sent her an email and she responded to that, but ignored my little comment about responding so quickly to her former co-worker. 

They went on in the email and in it she told him that the owner was going to talk to him on why he needed insurance from the company since his wife had been covering him. Mark's wife had gotten a promotion and new job in Seattle where she is at the current time. So Mark told my wife that he had talked with the owner over the weekend and gave noticed and had agreed to stay for 3 weeks before moving to Seattle. My wife asked Mark her former co-worker if she would see him on Tuesday when she came in to train her replacement and his answer was "For Sure." There was an exchange to of information that showed to me that there had to be some other conversation because my wife's former co-worker Mark gave her his personal cell number, his personal email address and when I looked in her phone, Mark is a contact and his home number is in there also. Also, my wife's older brother lives in Seattle and works in a field where he would have access to some contacts for the type of work Mark would be doing. My wife emailed her brother in late July asking if he knew of any leads for her friend Mark. Her brother never responded via email at least. Also, she has used the terms of endearment like honey, dear one in her emails with Mark. 

While shopping last weekend I asked who my wife was going to miss from her former work and she said "Mark in Service" which is the Mark I have been talking about (they have 2 Mark's working there). She then said "He's like my little brother, he's my sister's age." My wife's sister is 2 years younger than her. The last thing is I am into amateur astronomy and once to twice a month I leave for either part of the night or the whole night. This is the week I usually head out and my wife has really hounded me about what days I'm going (I am off until Monday from work). I haven't committed to going and last night she really hounded me and she has NEVER done that before. So I am inclined to pass on this monthly trip this month because I have a deep feeling that her and "Mark" are going to hook up. The other day I let slipped a little that I questioned whether I should be concern and my wife got very defensive. To her credit she has always stated she is anti-affair but at this point with everything, I just don' know anymore. 

So my plan right now is to confront her about the propriety of having another man's personal contact information in her phone and how that is inappropriate. I know for some that is not a big deal, but based on our religious and personal beliefs, for my wife and I (at least I thought so) that is a border you just don't cross if your married. I have never kept a co-worker's personal information in my personal phone ever. Another part says let it ride and see what happens. My wife I believe has gotten on to the fact that I am watching her email and her phone as there is no messages email or text to "Mark." If they are contacting it has to be from her work number or her work email. 

Okay, there are probably a few things I left out but do I need to be suspicious or am I just being paranoid? Over the last two weeks as this has serviced my wife has gotten very touchy, very loving but not intimately. If I should be suspicious what are my next steps? I love my wife, deeply and want our marriage to work but I cannot live in a sexless marriage anymore, because it doesn't fulfill my needs physically or emotionally and it has lead to this issue of trust. If it is an emotional affair then it ends and ends completely now. IF it has gone physical, I'm not sure what I would do. So I would appreciate your thoughts on this situation.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Lets look at the EA 1st, the sexless marriage can be adresssed later, but for now the OM (Mark) is influencing the dynamics of the marriage and he needs to bo gone.

As it appears that it may have gone deeper underground *or* she has established a boundry and is lessening the contact remains to be seen.

So in order to protect your marriage I suggest you quitely investigate your wifes current behavior. Since the possiblity of comms. is thru work, or a burner phone, you should get a VAR (voice activeated recorder) get some velcrow tape and plant the VAR under her set. If you have the dough hiring a PI is most effective.

The point here is to validate that contact with OM is continueing or has stopped.

If the EA is continuing then we here at TAM can help with the most effective way to expose and confront.

So for now go colvert and confirm your wife commitment.

*gather proof

*expose

*confront

Sometimes the quickest way to stop this is to expose this to the OMW (Marks wife) but with this exposure your wife must not be warned. This tactic not only gets an extra set of eyes on the EA, but the OM will bail on your wife and worry about his own marriage and repairing the damage.


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## Falene (Dec 31, 2011)

You need to do more investigation. There is smoke but you need to see the flame before you confront in my opinion.

Tell your wife you are going to star gaze but come home after an hour or two telling her you have an upset stomach or something.

Where she is, what she is doing will probably be all the info you need to decide what is really going on.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Alright, this is what I get from your thread.


Married over 24 years
Wife went on meds for migraines that you THINK might have killed over her libido
Gets a VERY inapproriate message from Mark, a coworker about wearing a thong - this by itself is inappropriate, but then she plays it off by saying thats how he is and talks to her, instead of agreeing with you that its inappropriate and telling you that she will tell him that its wrong and to stop talking to her that way. This is a *red flag*, as *cheaters will often downplay the sexual comments of their AP as just joking around*.
Refuses to go to MC
Sexless marriage for the past 2 years
Actively helping Mark look for work.

She may be very close to Mark, but at the very least, its an inappropriate relationship, possibly an EA or leading to an EA. So yes, you do have something to be concerned about. 

You say you cannot live in a sexless marriage anymore and she's refusing to go to MC. One thing you shouldn't do is cheat. Her doctor has already said that there are other alternatives to the meds she's on, but it seems like she doesn't care to try them. She may now be spending her emotional energy on Mark, which would make it an EA.

You can start investigating, but she knows that the home computer is compromised and that you're watching it, so like you said, IF they are communicating, it will be through work email and work phone. A tough situation to be sure. If you have the money, then invest in a PI. You can also try a VAR in the car and a GPS locator for the car. Because according to the cheater script, IF she's cheating, then they need to be in constant contact with each other and that means a secret cell phone/burner phone. 

If you find nothing, then great because its a marital issue and not an infidelity issue. Either way, you're going to have to decide if you wish to remain in a sexless marriage. She's denying you the emotional and physical intimacy of sex that helps maintain the bond of marriage.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Okay IT's time to pull out the boxing gloves, polish the shotgun, and call in the troops. Cause you are right on the verge of EA turning into PA. Given you don't have any damning proof you need to find out more. Get VAR and put it in her car. Then GPS tracker. 
Next I would go on the monthly trip tell your wife all about it. Then once you get out of sight pull over and monitor email and if you can text. Camp out for awhile and see what happens. If you can follow her and see where she goes. Hell go get some cash out and rent a car then drive back and you can camp out on the street near your house. You'll get to play PI and have fun and if your wife meets him. You will have all the proof you need to confront.


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## LostCPA (Apr 15, 2011)

Is it possible that this is a long term EA and PA and that she has spent the last few years avoiding intimacy with you to stay faithful to her AP?

This is at a minimum an EA and I think is likely a PA already. But, you definitely need to do more snooping before you confront. The suggestions above are good ones. Install a VAR in her car. Put a keylogger on the home computer. Obtain her cellphone records and check her texting and calling histories. Try to get the content of any text messages to the AP’s number.

Also, I would still let her think you are going on your out of town trip. Install a GPS tracker on her car. Install a few “security” cameras in your home. Monitor your driveway for visitors. In essence give her enough rope to hang herself. If nothing’s going on, great. But if there really is fire behind this smoke you will at least have the evidence to make an informed decision about your future.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

You have two options. You can try to catch her in the act, by pretending to go on the trip, but surveilling your wife instead. Or, you can try to c0ckblock Mark by cancelling your trip and meeting your wife for lunch when she goes back to see Mark.


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## Mario Kempes (Jun 12, 2010)

badbane said:


> Okay IT's time to pull out the boxing gloves, polish the shotgun, and call in the troops. Cause you are right on the verge of EA turning into PA. Given you don't have any damning proof you need to find out more. Get VAR and put it in her car. Then GPS tracker.
> Next I would go on the monthly trip tell your wife all about it. Then once you get out of sight pull over and monitor email and if you can text. Camp out for awhile and see what happens. If you can follow her and see where she goes. Hell go get some cash out and rent a car then drive back and you can camp out on the street near your house. You'll get to play PI and have fun and if your wife meets him. You will have all the proof you need to confront.


You beat me to it, Badbane. That's pretty much the same advice I was gonna give.

Tell her you're going, park down the road and see what happens. 

I reckon you'll end up following her or the other guy will call to the house.

And if he does call, wait for a while before you walk in on top of them. Let things develop *a little* before you do.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

badbane said:


> Okay IT's time to pull out the boxing gloves, polish the shotgun, and call in the troops. Cause you are right on the verge of EA turning into PA. Given you don't have any damning proof you need to find out more. Get VAR and put it in her car. Then GPS tracker.
> Next I would go on the monthly trip tell your wife all about it. Then once you get out of sight pull over and monitor email and if you can text. Camp out for awhile and see what happens. If you can follow her and see where she goes. Hell go get some cash out and rent a car then drive back and you can camp out on the street near your house. You'll get to play PI and have fun and if your wife meets him. You will have all the proof you need to confront.


:iagree: 

Borrow a friend's car. She is up to something. That is why she is so concerned about WHEN you are going.


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## StrangerThanFiction (Jul 19, 2011)

The answer to every thread in this forum that begins "should i be concerned?" is "Yes, you should be very concerned".


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Alright, this is what I get from your thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





In most workplaces this would be considered sexual harassment. Most women I know would consider this as sexual harassment whether in or out of the workplace. If she is not considering this as such, there is something wrong.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

It might not be anything, so be careful don't make a mountain out of a molehill, but do not allow an EA to develop, either.

And religion has nothing to do with cheating. Vicars, priests, parsons, bishops, all have had affairs...


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## DesertRatinUT (Aug 15, 2012)

Thanks for the advice. The trip is weather dependent and right now the weather isn't so good but I may just say we are going camping instead. I have several VAR that are digital and I'll put a set of fresh batteries in it and place it in her car. Suggestions on location, she drives a 4 door car. 

In terms of cheating, I will not cheat. I am against it. I believe I owe it to her to end the relationship before I seek a new partner and to be honest, I am not a one night stand kind of guy. I like to have emotion and commitment when it comes to intimacy. 
Is she cheating? I don't know for sure if it is a PA or just an EA, but I strongly suspect an EA with a possible PA attached to it and thus why I am cut off. I guess I'll have to pick up a GPS locator, and then go from there. 

Bottom line like I said, having a married man's private cell, his private email his wife doesn't have access to and his home number is not something I am comfortable with because its wrong in my book. She crossed the line here and from her vocal inflections she likes that she has it and that says more to me than a lot. Now to catch the act. I'll let people know what I find. I do think I played it too loose though but since he is around only for 2 more weeks if it is a PA, I know they will be trying to hook up. That is why I believe the urgency to me going on my star gazing trip. 

Funny thing, it was her EA and her letting me know about the private phone numbers and the private email that let me know I should look. What she doesn't realize is that an EA is both extremely hurtful and warns of a possible PA. I wonder when I get the "You don't trust me" talk and "He's just a friend" or "He's like my younger brother."


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Velcrow tape VAR under *her* car seat


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You can get over and through a spouse's EA or even a PA.

Plenty of examples on TAM of couples who did just that. Me included.


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## DesertRatinUT (Aug 15, 2012)

Okay the VAR is taped to the bottom of the driver's seat in her car and is ready to go. Also, I was rather sneaky tonight. I found a GPS tracking system for the family that lets me track her and I installed it on my phone, invited it on hers because I had her phone as she was teaching piano this evening (that is her hobby) and I eliminated all alerts or emails on it and tested it out tonight and it worked well without her knowing. Now I have GPS on her.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Good for you DesertRain.

And good luck.

Enjoy the stars and watch the phone.

Closely.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

DesertRatinUT said:


> Okay the VAR is taped to the bottom of the driver's seat in her car and is ready to go. Also, I was rather sneaky tonight. I found a GPS tracking system for the family that lets me track her and I installed it on my phone, invited it on hers because I had her phone as she was teaching piano this evening (that is her hobby) and I eliminated all alerts or emails on it and tested it out tonight and it worked well without her knowing. Now I have GPS on her.


Someone actually listened to the advice!


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Your wife is inappropriate, and eventually you need to confront---but this astronomy trip, gives you the perfect opportunity to become your own PI

Don't be overly rambunctuous to let her know you will be gone, do it calmly and make it look like it is weather dependent, but also give her enuff time to plan out her sexcapade

See if you can find a good place to watch her once you have allegedly left on your trip, if you need to bunk in with someone---try to find someone who will discreetly help you with what you are doing

Then just follow her everywhere---you are probably gonna need to rent a car, so she can't be tipped off by you driving your own vehicle---set your GPS, and then just follow her, record everything she does, by video, camera, writing, whatever---and if she hooks-up with her lover give her just enuff rope to hang herself, and then confront then and there


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## DesertRatinUT (Aug 15, 2012)

Nothing on the tape today, I reset it and retaped it. Nothing on email and GPS shows just going to and from work. I firmly believe she knows I am on to her and is being really sneaky with all communication on her work email and perhaps by either a throw away cell or her work phone. I will be leaving tomorrow and I have multiple GPS on her so it will be interesting to see. I also put a GPS on my new car I bought which I'll leave incase she takes that and I have a VAR ready for that (I record my star gazing observations in VAR so I have 3). I think she'll act either tomorrow night or it may happen next week when I return to work. Oh, I found the other's guy home address which is about a 30 minute drive from our home (traffic) so I know right where to go. His wife is in Seattle and they met online and she is from the Philippines. My wife's other guy was cheated on by his first wife so I wonder if that plays into this at all? That, and I don't think his current wife who as a Masters in Engineering would leave him, she is devoted to him (yes, she got her citizenship). My wife has had a hard time sleeping since Tuesday, does that play into this?


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

DesertRatinUT said:


> Nothing on the tape today, I reset it and retaped it. Nothing on email and GPS shows just going to and from work. I firmly believe she knows I am on to her and is being really sneaky with all communication on her work email and perhaps by either a throw away cell or her work phone. I will be leaving tomorrow and I have multiple GPS on her so it will be interesting to see. I also put a GPS on my new car I bought which I'll leave incase she takes that and I have a VAR ready for that (I record my star gazing observations in VAR so I have 3). I think she'll act either tomorrow night or it may happen next week when I return to work. Oh, I found the other's guy home address which is about a 30 minute drive from our home (traffic) so I know right where to go. His wife is in Seattle and they met online and she is from the Philippines. My wife's other guy was cheated on by his first wife so I wonder if that plays into this at all? That, and I don't think his current wife who as a Masters in Engineering would leave him, she is devoted to him (yes, she got her citizenship). *My wife has had a hard time sleeping since Tuesday, does that play into this?[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Could be guilt, could be excitement over an upcoming rendezvous


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Just be sure your wife can't read this thread. Otherwise your efforts will be worthless.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

DesertRatinUT said:


> Nothing on the tape today, I reset it and retaped it. Nothing on email and GPS shows just going to and from work. I firmly believe she knows I am on to her and is being really sneaky with all communication on her work email and perhaps by either a throw away cell or her work phone. I will be leaving tomorrow and I have multiple GPS on her so it will be interesting to see. I also put a GPS on my new car I bought which I'll leave incase she takes that and I have a VAR ready for that (I record my star gazing observations in VAR so I have 3). I think she'll act either tomorrow night or it may happen next week when I return to work.


Good, I'm glad you didn't just throw it under the seat like this guy did:

Affair Discussion Forum • View topic - Advice please: Found A Recording Device In My Car


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## DesertRatinUT (Aug 15, 2012)

Interesting discussion in that link. Today, I got up right after she left and I went to call her cell and guess what? She left her cell and she NEVER leaves her cell at home. Good thing I have a GPS in the car. She told me that her work may or may not have enough for her to do so they may or may not let her go early. My take on it. She is leaving early, is going to her OM house for some Afternoon Delight since his wife isn't home, she's in Seattle and then she'll come home this afternoon as I am heading out OR she go to his house and then call saying she has to work late and she'll see me in the a.m. Well, I am going where the GPS is tonight I'll tell you that! Maybe I am just paranoid but we'll see. In terms of her reading this thread, no way. She doesn't do message boards or look around and this is on my work laptop which I have secured all ways to heaven so no, she cannot get on my computer. Even IF she did, good, then we can have an upfront discussion which I would welcome.


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## DesertRatinUT (Aug 15, 2012)

Here was her reply to my email to her about forgetting her phone: 

I realized I left my phone ½ way to work. I don’t need it today anyway for anything. You will have to call or email me at work to communicate. I will sign the papers and scan them from home tomorrow for mom. Have fun today. 

Now I am going back and forth. IF she is intending to go and meet her OM after work when she thinks I am gone already to go star gaze then this make sense. Thoughts on this?


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

She doesn't want you to have a way of contacting her once she has left work---now she thinks she is free and clear, she can't be contacted, and she can't be held accountable for answering----Cheaters are devious, and they know how to play their game.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

She left her phone, the one you had GPS tracker installed on? What a coincidence!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Considering all the things that are just happening right now - I think you are doing the right thing with being alert. However if she has him over to your house how will you know ?

I think I'd set out for the gaze, but not really go. Just be gone for a while and then return home blaming the weather.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Considering all the things that are just happening right now - I think you are doing the right thing with being alert. However if she has him over to your house how will you know ?
> 
> I think I'd set out for the gaze, but not really go. Just be gone for a while and then return home blaming the weather.


:iagree:
If she is at home alone. Great. If she is at his house pack her a bag and drop it off on his porch.

Just before you do that, call the OMW from her phone and tell what is going on and what you are doing.

Then ring his doorbell.

Hand her phone to your wife or the OM and tell them to explain their A to his wife.

Then leave.

I hope nothing is going on but trust your gut.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

IF she's having an affair, then all the signs, like forgetting the phone, indicate that she may have a burner/pay as you go phone.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Or she could be using her work phone to talk to him. 

Keep checking that GPS tacker - both for when it moves and when it doesn't move today.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Jeez, I hate those jobs where they give you a phone for work. It makes cheating so much easier if one is in an affair. Thank goodness my fWWs job doesn't give her a work phone to use, but her manager is issued one.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Check her card statement and see if she bought any phone credit or a mobile phone lately. If she did, you're gonna need Detective McNulty for this one.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Desert Rat

Good Luck and Happy Hunting, I mean star gazing tonight.

HM64


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I hope things are very boring tonight and nothing bad is going down. keep us updated and turn to us if your need someone to talk with.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Desert Rat

How did you make out this weekend?

HM64


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