# Questions lead to even more questions?



## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

My H is finally coming around and has decided he will answer my questions. He doesn't want to talk about it daily though so we compromised and said we would talk about it once a week and if it got heated or started an argument, we would stop and continue later. So today was the first time we sat down and talked. Now I'm having a really bad night and my thoughts have taken over again. I was doing good and my mind wasn't racing as much until now. The discussion started to turn to an argument so we stopped. Now I have more questions running through my head. Does this ever stop? How can I make it through another week with all these questions?


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## LoveMouse (Apr 22, 2012)

It sucks.
There will always be more questions.
You'll ask the same question but in a different way.
You need security and you'll not get it from him.
True remorse= Confession of the sin, an apology, actions to rectify the sin.
Does he have true remorse?
Mouse


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

That doesn't seem like much of a compromise. It seems more like he has total control. 

So, only 4 times a month he has to answer question? I see that as only causing you to have built up stress and anxiety waiting for day 7 to arrive. 

I can understand the need to stop and continue later in the event of a heated argument, but I see that as opportunity for him to avoid answering questions. He can manipulate you into an argument. I would be careful with this arrangement. It seems too restrictive.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Write out two or three questions and give them to him the day before the agreed upon discussion date. You can ask him to write out the answers so you can read and discuss them, or you can listen to his answers and follow up with questions. 

Start with questions that you think you know the answers to. That way you can gauge the veracity of his answers. Limit the discussion to those questions only and set a time limit of about 90minutes max.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

woogy said:


> My H is finally coming around and has decided he will answer my questions. He doesn't want to talk about it daily though so we compromised and said we would talk about it once a week and if it got heated or started an argument, we would stop and continue later. So today was the first time we sat down and talked. Now I'm having a really bad night and my thoughts have taken over again. I was doing good and my mind wasn't racing as much until now. The discussion started to turn to an argument so we stopped. Now I have more questions running through my head. Does this ever stop? How can I make it through another week with all these questions?


Well, for starters, he cheated so tell me exactly why HE gets to set the "rules" for reconciliation? Why is HE deciding how much and how often you are allowed to discuss HIS lies, deceit, and betrayal? As the WS in my marriage, I am fully aware that my husband, the spouse that I betrayed, is the one who gets to decide how much, how often and how long we discuss the things that I did to wreak havoc on our marriage and on him. And because I love him and he and I have chosen, together, that we wish to reconcile, I want to do everything that I possibly can to help him heal from my betrayal so that we can both eventually move forward into a healthier and happier marriage. I could not bear to watch him suffer for a week, holding all of his questions inside, knowing that only I hold the answers that he needs, therefore the key to his/our best chance of recovery. I'm also curious.... You say the conversation got heated so it came to an end because of your agreement? Who put that stipulation in the agreement? Him? And, who caused the conversation to get heated? Just curious. At this rate, you'll get the answers that you need to heal sometime in the next 20 years.

I will admit, that even as the WS, I did have a few boundaries in our early conversations about my infidelity which my BS discovered nearly 9 months ago. I would not continue the conversation if my husband started to curse at me, call me foul names, repeated things that were simply for the sake of being cruel and punitive in nature or if I felt physically threatened. Now, my husband is not generally a man prone to violent verbal outbursts and he has never physically harmed me or even threatened to harm me. But, the pain and shock of your spouse's betrayal can make even the most calm and laid back individual react in ways that seem foreign, even to themselves. Infidelity does horrific things to both BS's and WS's, alike. But, the WS is the one who brought this living Hell into the marriage. Therefore, if they desire to reconcile, then the "burden" of healing needs to be for the WS to bear. Does it make your WS uncomfortable discussing it more than once a week? Does it ruin his evening if the conversation gets heated? Well, tell him that his lying, cheating and betrayal have made you feel uncomfortable, too. 

So, unless he is threatening to leave the marriage and you are begging him to stay, I don't know why his wishes are dictating the rules of your reconciliation. And, BTW, if that's the case, let him go because he'll do it again. His A was selfish...... his rules for reconciliation are just another example of his selfishness. Where is his concern for your feelings and needs in all of this?

How old are you two? How long have you been married? Do you have children? If you've stated this in another thread, I apologize. I'll look it up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

Sounds like a way for him to do damage control his way and evade answers.

I agree that when arguments arise, it is time to cool it, but it would be very easy for him to manipulate you this way.

Since you guys are discussing the fallout in a restrictive but power-imbalanced way, why don't you two see a marriage counselor, too? That way, you might get 2 days a week to sort out the issues and you will be in the room with a pro who might help you guys do things more fairly....


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

How much compromising did he do with you when it came to his affair? I doubt he allowed you any say in that.


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

EI said:


> Well, for starters, he cheated so tell me exactly why HE gets to set the "rules" for reconciliation? Why is HE deciding how much and how often you are allowed to discuss HIS lies, deceit, and betrayal? As the WS in my marriage, I am fully aware that my husband, the spouse that I betrayed, is the one who gets to decide how much, how often and how long we discuss the things that I did to wreak havoc on our marriage and on him. And because I love him and he and I have chosen, together, that we wish to reconcile, I want to do everything that I possibly can to help him heal from my betrayal so that we can both eventually move forward into a healthier and happier marriage. I could not bear to watch him suffer for a week, holding all of his questions inside, knowing that only I hold the answers that he needs, therefore the key to his/our best chance of recovery. I'm also curious.... You say the conversation got heated so it came to an end because of your agreement? Who put that stipulation in the agreement? Him? And, who caused the conversation to get heated? Just curious. At this rate, you'll get the answers that you need to heal sometime in the next 20 years.
> 
> I will admit, that even as the WS, I did have a few boundaries in our early conversations about my infidelity which my BS discovered nearly 9 months ago. I would not continue the conversation if my husband started to curse at me, call me foul names, repeated things that were simply for the sake of being cruel and punitive in nature or if I felt physically threatened. Now, my husband is not generally a man prone to violent verbal outbursts and he has never physically harmed me or even threatened to harm me. But, the pain and shock of your spouse's betrayal can make even the most calm and laid back individual react in ways that seem foreign, even to themselves. Infidelity does horrific things to both BS's and WS's, alike. But, the WS is the one who brought this living Hell into the marriage. Therefore, if they desire to reconcile, then the "burden" of healing needs to be for the WS to bear. Does it make your WS uncomfortable discussing it more than once a week? Does it ruin his evening if the conversation gets heated? Well, tell him that his lying, cheating and betrayal have made you feel uncomfortable, too.
> 
> ...


I'm 35 and my H is 43. We have two kids, 13 and 11. We've been married 14 yrs. Our marriage wasnt the best. We argued a lot. So Three MC we saw for a few sessions said we need to take each others feelings into consideration and make compromises. So that's what we have been trying. Thats why we are trying this once a week as a compromise because he doesn't like to talk about it and it usually turns into an argument.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

woogy said:


> Thats why we are trying this once a week as a compromise because he doesn't like to talk about it and it usually turns into an argument.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When the compromise was being determined, what was your initial desired frequency? What was his initial desired frequency? 

What usually happened when the discussion turned into an argument? Maybe you can figure out a way to stop that from happening so that he can't waste time or stop the discussion.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

woogy said:


> I'm 35 and my H is 43. We have two kids, 13 and 11. We've been married 14 yrs. Our marriage wasnt the best. We argued a lot. So Three MC we saw for a few sessions said we need to take each others feelings into consideration and make compromises. So that's what we have been trying. Thats why we are trying this once a week as a compromise because he doesn't like to talk about it and it usually turns into an argument.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is a good place to start and it sounds like you are attempting to have open communication that will not add to the hurts already dealt out.I like the fact that it seems that you are not trying to make him feel as bad as you and all that revenge crap.

I would suggest writing the questions down (in a place the kids will not happen upon them) and see if they are repeats reworded. But I will be honest with you, every answer makes more questions when it come to this topic. I still have questions pop up in my head and it has been years.
I would seek out more MC to keep things going. Try the Red Hour (I think you can Google it) because it is such a short amount of time you can do it daily and not have it over take either of you. It is helping my H and I greatly.

Best of luck.


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

Kurosity said:


> This is a good place to start and it sounds like you are attempting to have open communication that will not add to the hurts already dealt out.I like the fact that it seems that you are not trying to make him feel as bad as you and all that revenge crap.
> 
> I would suggest writing the questions down (in a place the kids will not happen upon them) and see if they are repeats reworded. But I will be honest with you, every answer makes more questions when it come to this topic. I still have questions pop up in my head and it has been years.
> I would seek out more MC to keep things going. Try the Red Hour (I think you can Google it) because it is such a short amount of time you can do it daily and not have it over take either of you. It is helping my H and I greatly.
> ...


We are trying to go back to MC its been hard with our schedules and the MC Iiis booked on Saturday for a few months. I looked up the red hour but didn't find anything except for a movie. What is it? 

As for the compromise, I would like to talk whenever I have questions, but that wouldn't be much of a compromise then. I will try writing down my questions and maybe that will help me get thru the week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)




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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

It's not up to him when you talk about it. If once a week isn't enough for you then it isn't enough.
You need to re negotiate the terms!

Always been respectful and don't let it turn into an augment but if you feel you need to talk then so be it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cobre (Feb 24, 2013)

LoveMouse said:


> It sucks.
> There will always be more questions.
> You'll ask the same question but in a different way.
> You need security and you'll not get it from him.
> ...


:iagree:


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/experiences-counseling/67765-red-hour-my-h-i-mc.html

I almost forgot that I shared the basic of the red hour on TAM. I hope the link works to get you to my post. I do hope it helps.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Do any of these MC's have experience with infidelity??

This isn't your WS answering your questions. It's your WS continuing to rugsweep what he's done and control you.

And what the hell - if you get into an argument it stops?! What's to stop him from just getting mad every time?

I call bullpucky.


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

Have you tried to reverse the questions? I have found that it is important for my WH to know that he is in pain also. I mean you can dump on him and demand answers, or you can try and see how he is also feeling. Once I found out that mine is as mad at himself as I am, the tide shifted and we can talk better.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

woogy said:


> ... As for the compromise, I would like to talk whenever I have questions, but that wouldn't be much of a compromise then. I will try writing down my questions and maybe that will help me get thru the week.


Woogy~

I have to say, I commend you for being willing to take your Disloyal Spouse's feelings and opinions into consideration. That, in and of itself, shows that you are extending yourself and going outside your comfort zone. So good for you. 

Now, I want to reiterate what EI said, but also sort of remind you of two things ... and then make a suggestion you can take it or leave it. Everything EI said is the absolute 100% truth, and I also speak from the point of view of having been a formerly Disloyal Spouse. Honestly--I'm harder on the DS's because they have more work to do, in my opinion. 

ANYWAYS... the first thing I would like to remind you that the affair was like a puzzle. Your DS has all the pieces of the puzzle and knows the picture that the puzzle makes ... and it's a pretty unflattering picture so the DS doesn't want to keep looking at the picture! YOU on the other hand do not have all the pieces and may have an idea what picture the puzzle makes but without all the pieces it's not utterly clear to you! So you keep looking for pieces here...pieces there...and at some point you may say "Okay I have all the edge pieces and a bunch in the middle...that's enough for me" and decide to stop looking for pieces. Until then, you will have questions because the questions are the puzzle pieces. 

The second thing is that from your DS's point of view, they are trying to not have the AP on their mind and put it behind them, so constantly talking about it does not help them to let it go. The trouble is that what HELPS you... HARMS them. This is why I agree there does need to be some compromise. If you as a Loyal Spouse spend so much time looking at the past that you are not able to look at the PRESENT and realize that your spouse is being faithful and loving NOW... the marriage will be harmed. Likewise, if you are so focused on the past that you can't see a future of love and faithfulness, then the marriage will also be harmed. BUT... the fact of the matter is that the present and the future are built upon foundation of the PAST...and if the past is not evaluated and it's rubble, why then the marriage will founder and fail! So from your DS's point of view, there has to be some hope that it won't be held against them forever and that the current and future does "count for something." Likewise from the LS's point of view, the past has to be addressed and evaluated so that whatever caused the pain "back then" can be changed and it will never happen again. It's a balancing act, but it is one that can be done!

Finally I would like to suggest a more reasonable time to discuss the affair. Once a week is not nearly enough, and I pretty much guarantee you that after a week of having questions and not being able to ask and stuffing down your feelings, you'll want to pounce on the little time you have...and your DS will feel pounced upon!! Thus I suggest something more rational that addresses BOTH of your points of view. As an example, how about agreeing to discuss the affair once-a-day, every day but for only 30 minutes? Or every other day, but for an hour? See this makes it so that if something happens TODAY or you have an issue or question TODAY, you can address it today and have it resolved between you two...BUT it also makes it so that your DS is not grilled and interrogated for HOURS and made to sit through basically a blame/rage session. YOU have a worry today and it's addressed today...and YOUR DS has the reassurance it won't last forever, and once the affair is looked at for these 30 minutes, it's put away and the present can be enjoyed. 

What do you think?


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

Our weekly talks haven't happened for 2 weeks now. I brought it up to my H and he said he doesn't see how this is helping. I tried to explain to him that it does help me, even though it hurts and I get upset. He claims it only causes more arguments because to him, his answers aren't good enough. Like when I first asked him how could he do this and he told me it just happened. I explained it didn’t just happened, yes you may not have been looking for it but you had a choice, you could have stopped but you didn't. He then said he did it because he was lonely. Ok, I was lonely too and I tried to show him attention but his games got in the way. So I asked him why not talk to me then and tell me instead of going out and finding someone else, he said that because we argued all the time, he didn't want anymore confrontation. I asked him, did you not think this would cause confrontation when I found out? Then he gets angry and tells me, see no matter what I say it's not good enough and tells me that I'm always throwing this in his face and I will never let it go. Am I missing something? I'm trying to understand it all but each answer brings about more questions for me. Is that throwing it in his face? I can see if I questioned him everyday, but I don't. I wait until we schedule a time to sit down out of the house to discuss everything and these talks are maybe 1 1/2 to 2 hrs max. 

So the other night, he was on his way home from work and called so we could talk since we have missed 2 weeks. It was going okay, but from the beginning, I could tell he really didn't want to be doing this and when I said anything he didn't like, (like my example above, trying to have him explain with more detail), he would get angry and yell. He told me he doesn't want to keep doing this, that it's not helping our marriage, it's only making it worse and he can't live like this because he doesn't think I will ever let it go. I asked him, do you love me, and he said, a part of me still does. I said I think this isn't working because you don't love me enough to care if we are together or not. That he has one foot already out the door. He said he does want to be with me and when I asked him, why if you don't love me, he said if we reconnect again, the love will come back. 

So my question is, can we work through this? Or since he only cares about me but doesn't love me, will we always argue during these talks? He did say we need to go back to MC, so I found another counselor that can work with our schedule and we see her April 3rd (providing my H gets home from work on time).


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## ody360 (Feb 1, 2013)

Your WS is being very selfish. You will not be able to get over this if you can not get your questions answered. So its either deal with what answer's you are getting or let him rug sweep it. I really don't know your work situation or financial or kids but. He hasn't gotten knocked across the head hard enough with reality and kinda seems to think that because he didn't leave that should be good enough. Trickle truth i guess its what it called. 

What else has he been doing to show remorse may i ask? Does it feel like he is just doing the same routines that you guys had going before D? You might need to just 180 and accept that you might need to be ready to leave him. People say you baisicly need to end your marriage to save it. It does not sound like you are ever gonna get what you want, when you totally deserve to know everything. So take a deep breath and really decide is this what you want. Do you want to be with someone who says yeah i kinda love you. Um hello you either love me or you don't. You kinda love a dog or a pet or a friend but you his wife um. That would be a stab in the back and id be ready to distant myself casue obviously you care more about him then he does you. Im sorry this is unacceptable.


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

If he cared he would not do this to you!
He was selfish during the affair and he's being just as selfish now.
It's going to be a long long time before you get your answers with the current arrangement. It's torture, literally. True Love just doesn't do that.


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

Our weekly talks have not been going so well. My H told me we need to find another counselor to go to since we end up arguing after these talks. So the appt was for last night with a new MC. When I get home from work, I tell my H we should start getting ready and he seems aggravated. Then he doesn't say much on the ride there. We get inside and as we are waiting, I'm trying to talk to him about general stuff and he's being short with me. I asked him why, and he tells me, because I don't want to be here. I don't like going over this stuff again and again and again. Now he is the one who told me to make an appointment for us to talk with someone, now he's telling me he just says that to appease me. I tell him, seeing a counselor is not just for dealing with the affair, it's trying to work on our marriage since it was not very good before. He just sits and is silent. So I ask him, so what would you suggest we do to fix our marriage, or would you rather just quit and be done all together. He said he doesn't know what to do. Then he says "you won't like hearing this but I like being alone." That he feels stressed when I'm home. WTF is that suppose to mean. I ask him, if you wanted to be alone then why go find someone else, that's not being alone. Of course this makes him mad and he tells me, she didn't live here, she was out of state so yes he was alone. And again, I tell him, well what about the plans you two were making to have her move here to be with you, then you wouldn't be alone, and his answer, well she never did come did she. Of course she didn't because I found out about their affair and she was mad my H lied to her about being separated for a year (which we were never separated until I found out) so she told him she wouldn't move to be with him until the divorce was final.

Well we did see the MC and he was okay in there. I thought she was pretty good for the first session, though she wants to see me as an individual along with both of us for MC. She said helping me also helps the marriage. Though I'm not sure if it’s a good idea to see the same counselor for IC as we do for MC. 

So at this point, I'm confused and frustrated with my H. Especially since a few weeks ago he texts me saying he looks forward to coming home to me every night which he hasn’t felt like that in a long time. Then I get last night that he likes to be alone and he's stressed when I'm home. Or he tells me to make an appt and then is aggitated when the time comes to go because he doesn't want to be there. 

Is all this normal while trying to reconcile?


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

No it's not normal for real R.

He's disconnected, and is trying to rug sweep. If I was there I'd kick him out for you.

This is not a real R from what you are saying. He doesn't feel real remorse. He just wants to rug sweep and move on which will only result in another A later.


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## Grey Goose (Aug 23, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Write out two or three questions and give them to him the day before the agreed upon discussion date. You can ask him to write out the answers so you can read and discuss them, or you can listen to his answers and follow up with questions.
> 
> Start with questions that you think you know the answers to. That way you can gauge the veracity of his answers. Limit the discussion to those questions only and set a time limit of about 90minutes max.


Good idea WOM but be careful this "process" will not give him an upper hand to answer how and whatever he wants. 

You will need answers, like most of us do. Let your H know that the more time goes by without you getting real answers and remorse the more you shutdown. I got my answers this past January after a year of separation and almost 5 months of him trying to R with us, and it has set us back a world, bc I now think that he is capable of doing the same or worse (too many things hidden from me) and I only got answers after I tricked him. My feelings are pretty much shutdown, my therapist and many here on TAM think this is my system's way of protecting myself.

The quicker it is out, the better!


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## jaded0731 (Mar 23, 2013)

Woogy,

I am so sorry you are going through this. My H sounds a lot like your H. If you can, try to find a good book on Narcissism, because it sounds like your H has a lot of those qualities. Narcissists are unable to feel true empathy. I believe that this is the issue with my H. There is a part in them that absolutely cannot see beyond themselves. I wish I had more answers for you - we are currently trying to R, however it has been difficult because I feel that I have been the one doing all of the heavy lifting.

Even more devistating to me than the A has been the way that my H has reacted afterward. If I had to do it all over again, I would have done things much differently (kicked him out for longer and exposed).


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

Ovid said:


> No it's not normal for real R.
> 
> He's disconnected, and is trying to rug sweep. If I was there I'd kick him out for you.
> 
> This is not a real R from what you are saying. He doesn't feel real remorse. He just wants to rug sweep and move on which will only result in another A later.


This is what I thought too, he wants to rug sweep and be done so he doesn't have to face it. But the MC said we will need to deal with my questions so I have closure and we will do this during counseling. We did make another appt for next week, but I'm not sure how my H feels about going again.


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## Grey Goose (Aug 23, 2012)

woogy said:


> Is all this normal while trying to reconcile?


No, it is not and this is his way of not dealing with it and manipulating you. You need to look deep down into your own self and take control. 

Get him out! I think he is either still in the A or some sort of contact is going on. He is not with you, he is with someone else. My H did this for a looooong time in and out of our relationship and until I put my foot down and decided no more, he did not "feel in love with me again" and so he says now. 

If you want to save yourself from a lot of pain do the complete 180 and get him out. Focus on yourself and the kids. What do you need and want. You should be the most important thing in this marrigae now, not him nor his needs. Never ask him what you guys should do, that would mean you are letting him control the situation. But do this when you are ready, for you and only you, do not expect anything from him. Even if you want a chance to get the marriage back you will need a complete 180 now and let him REALLY feel the repercussions of his actions. Trying to help them through the fog or their messed up heads will get you no where. Take control, do not let him be in control!


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## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

There is a post on here I believe is called Josephs letter. I used it to form my own letter so my wife would understand why I need questions answered. This is even after almost 5 years since D-Day. It references what happened in his affair as a picture that you can't see, but are expected to put it together like a puzzle with all the missing pieces.


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

Grey Goose said:


> No, it is not and this is his way of not dealing with it and manipulating you. You need to look deep down into your own self and take control.
> 
> Get him out! I think he is either still in the A or some sort of contact is going on. He is not with you, he is with someone else. My H did this for a looooong time in and out of our relationship and until I put my foot down and decided no more, he did not "feel in love with me again" and so he says now.
> 
> If you want to save yourself from a lot of pain do the complete 180 and get him out. Focus on yourself and the kids. What do you need and want. You should be the most important thing in this marrigae now, not him nor his needs. Never ask him what you guys should do, that would mean you are letting him control the situation. But do this when you are ready, for you and only you, do not expect anything from him. Even if you want a chance to get the marriage back you will need a complete 180 now and let him REALLY feel the repercussions of his actions. Trying to help them through the fog or their messed up heads will get you no where. Take control, do not let him be in control!


I don't think he's in the A anymore. I have a VAR and there has been nothing going on. 

Since our marriage has not been good for a long time, I think we are both important right now. I'm not letting him control the situation fully, but I feel he has a say in what we should do in our marriage. 

Now I'm not excusing his affair and he knows this. But I can see his point of view also in our talking ends up in arguments and we have argued enough during our marriage that I don't want it to be like that anymore either.

I do think he's been disconnected from me for awhile because of the condition our marriage was in and that it's going to take time for him to see that the marriage we had is dead and gone and we have to make a new better marriage. 

And I have the same feelings sometimes, I love him and want our marriage to work, then other days I'm not sure if I truly do and question if we should be together.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

How far into recovery are you? At some point the repeated rehashing of information becomes more torture than useful exercise. As a BS, during my attempted recovery phase, I did not continually question my spouse on the details of her infidelity. I had undisputable evidence. I asked a couple of times about the hows of her relationship with the OM. Nothing else is useful. I think many BS sabotage R by constantly reliving this assault. I know of a mother whose 23 year son committed suicide who is in the same boat; constantly seeking reasons that she can never know. At some point you have to close the past and see the present and the future.


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## Grey Goose (Aug 23, 2012)

woogy said:


> I don't think he's in the A anymore. I have a VAR and there has been nothing going on.
> 
> Since our marriage has not been good for a long time, I think we are both important right now. I'm not letting him control the situation fully, but I feel he has a say in what we should do in our marriage.
> 
> ...


If you feel this way and you feel you are in control, good. But just be very careful, I was the same way when I first found out and thought a lot about the same things you have thought and wanted desperatly to save my marriage. So I tried the nice way approach (this does not mean constant arguments or insults - I have not used these, I just decided to be strong and hold my own) and it got me no where bc even if he wanted he would never be able see the damage he had caused bc there were no repercusions. 

Yes, there are certainly problems in the marriage before an A, heck we all are responsible for our relationships but we are not responsible for the poor decisions they make in the process. So think long and hard about the marriage you want and see if you are getting it with him, if there is the possibility of coming around to it or not and if HE is willing and open to do WHATEVER needs to be done in order to get there. My H said he was not with her (sex) at times last year but yet he could not reconnect with us. WHy? Bc there was some sort of contact, which caused him to go back and forth. It could well not be your case, but it is the case with many WS here, just read on.

I may have sounded harsh, but I just do not want you to go through what I did - a lot of lies, manipulation, deception, family blaming me, divorce court, child hearing court, losing friends, family abandoning my son and then the crying that I cannot understand.


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

KanDo said:


> How far into recovery are you? At some point the repeated rehashing of information becomes more torture than useful exercise. As a BS, during my attempted recovery phase, I did not continually question my spouse on the details of her infidelity. I had undisputable evidence. I asked a couple of times about the hows of her relationship with the OM. Nothing else is useful. I think many BS sabotage R by constantly reliving this assault. I know of a mother whose 23 year son committed suicide who is in the same boat; constantly seeking reasons that she can never know. At some point you have to close the past and see the present and the future.


When my H came back home in September he didn't want to answer my questions or if he did he wasn't honest or didn't go into detail. He also refused to be transparent with me and didn't give me his passwords to anything, phone, computer, emails or gaming sites. He was also lying to me about a lot which I didn't know he was until just before Christmas. That is when I hacked his email and gaming site. When I confronted him, we got into a huge argument/fight. I left on vacation for the week and told him to move out before I came back. He then came clean to me but still did not give me details about his affair. Just a general, I was on this game/hook up site for x amount of time, found one girl, had an EA with her for a month, then found this last girl that he was planning his life with. He has never wanted to talk about it but realizes I need to in order to heal and have closure. So we compromised and decided to talk weekly out of the house. And as you can see from my posts, that didn't work either so here we are.

I know I need to eventually stop rehashing the past, but it's not like I'm asking him the same questions over and over and over. It's just when I ask him a question, he's vague and I ask him another question to see if I can get a detailed answer. Believe me, I don't want to relive this anymore either, but I can't live with these unanswered questions either.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Hey Woogy,

Just read all your threads. Sorry for what you are going through.


If he hits you again, consider leaving. For your sake, and because a man who hits you may hit the kids. Not acceptable.
It took me a long time (years) before my wife was willing to talk in detail about things. I now have a story I have no way of checking, but which I think is basically the truth. So if I had held out for full truth before reconciling, I would not be here.
Just as she deserves blame for the affair, my wife deserves enormous credit for her part of the reconciliation. For a long time I was cold, untrusting. I was there for the kids. If she had hurt me once she could do it again. I do not forget such things easily. A lesser woman would have walked. Similarly, you can't do it alone. He has done the wrong thing and it will be hard to let it go. For some time after her affair, the hardest thing I could do was walk in throughout the door after work. There were times I just couldn't do it, and other times I walked in, and seized with emotions, turned around and walked straight back out again. Don't be afraid of this. Don't be ashamed to feel things and to accept that your feelings are valid. And if there is anything I can do to help you, just PM me. It's horrible to go through that alone.
Glad you are in counselling and on TAM. I think that is good. My wife refused counselling after her affair. It was many years ago and there was no information like you can get now about affairs. I leaned on my best friend, who unfortunately had jus cheated on his wife, so the stress of it all ended our friendship. I was very alone for a long time. You get through but it sucks.
You cannot make a marriage alone. Part of your focus has to be growing your own strength and self-reliance. You need to be in a position where, should he choose to leave, you can let him go and get through it.
It helps to be clear why you want to be married. So for me, for a time that was "for the kids". I put energy into family occasions, worked on being able to relate to my wife on the level necessary for good parenting, and the rest of what we now have grew from there. To be honest, if I had gone for restoration of all romance and so on from day one it may not have succeeded. I understand myself and her much better now than I did then. But we were working on issues, one by one. We weren't just wallowing in misery.
Hope some of this gives you some ideas. Hang in there. Whatever happens you will be ok.


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

Wazza said:


> Hey Woogy,
> 
> Just read all your threads. Sorry for what you are going through.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this Wazza. I do know that my H doesn't want to talk about his affair at all so I try not to. When I'm triggering, I go off and do something to distract myself and normally that works. Its so hard. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells because if I say one thing about his affair, I hear him say "your never going to let this go, there's something wrong with you, I should have never come back, etc". 

Just yesterday, I was on his computer and there was an error in the bottom, so I clicked on it and it comes up with all these old errors that weren't fixed. One of them was from 2/12 that Skype crashed. Well I triggered bad because skype is what he used to communicate with her but he told me they didn't start using it until May or June. So when I say that he was on Skype in February, I asked him who he would have been talking to. Instantly I saw him get angry and he tells me he doesn't know. So I asked him, was it her and he says again, I don't know and what does it matter? Then he goes off yelling about how he doesn't want to be grilled and that I will never let this go. He then walks away and tells me to leave him alone and to get away from him. This brought me to tears.

I wasn't angry when I asked him the questions, I was calm and never raised my voice. I tried to ask him in a way to show him I'm not upset or mad, just looking for an answer. But he blew up at me anyway and now he won't talk to me. 

Before I walked away last night to go in another room, I told him that this was why I tell him that I feel I can't say anything to him and if I don't have my happy face on, then he's mad and won't talk to me for a day or two. If I'm fine and don't mention his affair, then things are good. So I try not to but when I triggered really bad last night, I couldn't keep it in anymore. I told him I should be able to talk to you about anything and not be in fear of you biting my head off or screaming and yelling at me. He sat in silence.

You have much more will power and strength than I do Wazza. I applaud you for being able to walk back out the door before saying anything that would have caused conflict in your marriage. Thank you again for your post, I appreciate it.


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## jaded0731 (Mar 23, 2013)

woogy said:


> Thanks for this Wazza. I do know that my H doesn't want to talk about his affair at all so I try not to. When I'm triggering, I go off and do something to distract myself and normally that works. Its so hard. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells because if I say one thing about his affair, I hear him say "your never going to let this go, there's something wrong with you, I should have never come back, etc".
> 
> Just yesterday, I was on his computer and there was an error in the bottom, so I clicked on it and it comes up with all these old errors that weren't fixed. One of them was from 2/12 that Skype crashed. Well I triggered bad because skype is what he used to communicate with her but he told me they didn't start using it until May or June. So when I say that he was on Skype in February, I asked him who he would have been talking to. *Instantly I saw him get angry and he tells me he doesn't know*. So I asked him, was it her and he says again, I don't know and what does it matter? *Then he goes off yelling about how he doesn't want to be grilled and that I will never let this go. He then walks away and tells me to leave him alone and to get away from him. This brought me to tears.*
> I wasn't angry when I asked him the questions, I was calm and never raised my voice. I tried to ask him in a way to show him I'm not upset or mad, just looking for an answer. But he blew up at me anyway and now he won't talk to me.
> ...


I am sorry to tell you this, Woogy, but this is not a true R. Your WH is not truly remorseful for what he has done. 

He is stonewalling you - waiting for you to "get over it" so that things can be back to "normal" again. What he does not realize is that you will not "get over it" unless he is willing to work with you and to help you through your grief. A truly remorseful WH should be eager and willing to do this.

Walking on eggshells is no way to go through the rest of your life. You deserve better.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

True reconciliation......

Well Woogy's husband gets defensive. My wife got withdrawn. Both of them hiding things.

My wife came clean (I think) in the second half of last year.,h last conversation with her on the subject trapped her in a lie from the previous conversation. There are a couple of details where I think she just can't bring herself to admit things so I act on the basis that what I suspect is true, and get on with it. On one level this might look weak, but if you knew my wife's character and a couple of other key facts you would understand.

EI, I noticed you are reading this. Do you remember how long it took you to open up to B1 and start talking honestly, and what made you do it? That might give Woogy some ideas.

Woogy, sorry I read all your threads and it was a lot to take in. Have you suggested your husband join TAM. That way others can call him on his cr*p and you get to deliver the good news


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

Wazza said:


> True reconciliation......
> 
> Well Woogy's husband gets defensive. My wife got withdrawn. Both of them hiding things.
> 
> ...


I have told him about TAM even sent him some links to the threads but he doesn't want to read anything. I have Not Just Friends and asked him to read that, he won't. I wish he would come here to understand everything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

woogy said:


> I have told him about TAM even sent him some links to the threads but he doesn't want to read anything. I have Not Just Friends and asked him to read that, he won't. I wish he would come here to understand everything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Gotta let him do it his way and gotta know your own walk away point.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Woogy,

You have put in time for this so-called R. I am not sure if there is a true attempt at it.

IMO, your H is defensive and is not opening up. Wazza said it well. Cheaters dont like getting caught. They continue to lie. Lie. Lie.

So, in your case, since you have invested so much time even after Dday, I presume this, you could wait for some more time and tell him you are waiting for him to come out with fully truthful details.

I also guess that he has more power in your relationship and he does not want to lose that power. He cannot see himself crumbling. On moral grounds.

MC would be more appropriate.


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

AngryandUsed said:


> Woogy,
> 
> You have put in time for this so-called R. I am not sure if there is a true attempt at it.
> 
> ...


We are back in MC but she has not had us talk about the affair yet. She's working on communication and bringing us closer together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

This is no R. Your H is simply using his anger to rug sweep. It's a rotten deal for you at best. You're just being bullied into accepting his story. I wish you the best, but I wouldn't call this an R. You need more than this to heal. Instead you're just getting more abuse. I don't see how a MC can bring you closer together under the conditions.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Ovid said:


> This is no R. Your H is simply using his anger to rug sweep. It's a rotten deal for you at best. You're just being bullied into accepting his story. I wish you the best, but I wouldn't call this an R. You need more than this to heal. Instead you're just getting more abuse. I don't see how a MC can bring you closer together under the conditions.


Might help him realis he is rugsweeping?


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

Well yesterday my H came up to me first thing in the morning as I'm getting ready for work and told me he's sorry. He shouldn't have blown up at me, it wasn't right. He said he understands that I'm going to have bad days and have questions and he shouldn't yell at me but try his best to answer them and not get angry and defensive. He's sorry for all the stress this has caused me and he wants to do better. He said he is really going to try to help me and not be a d!ck about it. 

Now I've heard this from him before so we shall see if he is true to his word the next time I trigger badly and can't hold it in anymore. 

Plus I'm going to bring this blow up to our MC tomorrow and see what she thinks.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

woogy said:


> Well yesterday my H came up to me first thing in the morning as I'm getting ready for work and told me he's sorry. He shouldn't have blown up at me, it wasn't right. He said he understands that I'm going to have bad days and have questions and he shouldn't yell at me but try his best to answer them and not get angry and defensive. He's sorry for all the stress this has caused me and he wants to do better. He said he is really going to try to help me and not be a d!ck about it.
> 
> Now I've heard this from him before so we shall see if he is true to his word the next time I trigger badly and can't hold it in anymore.
> 
> Plus I'm going to bring this blow up to our MC tomorrow and see what she thinks.


We all have our demons. Allow your h to be human.

And if you bring the blow up in, also bring that he apologised in. Bring the positives as well as the negatives. Talk about how you can strengthen the good and diminish the bad together.

Part of marriage is about supporting each other in weakness.


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

Wazza said:


> We all have our demons. Allow your h to be human.
> 
> And if you bring the blow up in, also bring that he apologised in. Bring the positives as well as the negatives. Talk about how you can strengthen the good and diminish the bad together.
> 
> Part of marriage is about supporting each other in weakness.


I'm trying to understand everything from my H's point too. I know he doesn't like to talk about anything and this has been a huge part of why our marriage wasn't great too. And because he shuts down, I haven't tried to talk about his A. But I think he also needs to understand that I need to talk sometimes when it gets to much for me to handle on my own. He tells me he understand this and he has said this before but usually when I bring it up at all, I get the same reaction, anger, defensiveness and then silence. I don't yell, scream, call him names or say "how could you" or anything like that. I'm trying to be sensitive to his feelings also. 

When we go to MC, I will bring in both the negative and the positive when we discuss this blow up. I'm hoping she can give us some different ways of handling something like this. I'm already dreading when July comes around because of DDay. I'm trying to tell myself now that I can handle it and to make it just another day and I hope when it rolls around, it won't be so bad.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

What did MC say about constructive ways for you both to discuss what happened?


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

Wazza said:


> What did MC say about constructive ways for you both to discuss what happened?


She really didn't give us much besides telling my H if I have questions they do need to be answered in order for me to "heal". My H just kept saying, "I need this to be done" and "she will never let go". The counselor told him that it won't be like this forever and to try to answer my questions, but if it gets "heated" for both of us to walk away before it turns into an argument.

But I know my H won't answer anything, he just keeps saying, how is browing beating me going to help you. I asked him, how is asking you a question brow beating you? No answer except "I just need this to stop". He continues on that rehashing everything is not going to help and I'm always going to hold this over his head. Even told me "if we can't get past this our marriage is not going to make it". So in other words, if I ask him anything about his affair or try to talk about it, he will leave.

I told him it's not like I'm asking him to talk about it everyday all day long. Just when I'm having a really bad day and having triggers that won't go away, I need to talk about it to get through it to make me better. He doesn't understand how talking about it will make me get better. I don't know what else to say to him at this point.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Going to keep going with the counselling? Might bring him around given time.


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

Wazza said:


> Going to keep going with the counselling? Might bring him around given time.


Yes we will continue with counseling. The only bad thing is our counselor is moving out of state at the end of June.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

woogy said:


> She really didn't give us much besides telling my H if I have questions they do need to be answered in order for me to "heal". My H just kept saying, "I need this to be done" and "she will never let go". The counselor told him that it won't be like this forever and to try to answer my questions, but if it gets "heated" for both of us to walk away before it turns into an argument.
> 
> But I know my H won't answer anything, he just keeps saying, how is browing beating me going to help you. I asked him, how is asking you a question brow beating you? No answer except "I just need this to stop". He continues on that rehashing everything is not going to help and I'm always going to hold this over his head. Even told me "if we can't get past this our marriage is not going to make it". So in other words, if I ask him anything about his affair or try to talk about it, he will leave.
> 
> I told him it's not like I'm asking him to talk about it everyday all day long. Just when I'm having a really bad day and having triggers that won't go away, I need to talk about it to get through it to make me better. He doesn't understand how talking about it will make me get better. I don't know what else to say to him at this point.


That's just plain callous. Like he has no real interest in helping you.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> That's just plain callous. Like he has no real interest in helping you.


Or thinks that the best way to help is to put it behind them.

My wife was like that...took her a long time to realise it wouldn't work, and by then some of the effects on our marriage were irreversible.


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

Wazza said:


> Or thinks that the best way to help is to put it behind them.
> 
> My wife was like that...took her a long time to realise it wouldn't work, and by then some of the effects on our marriage were irreversible.


Our counselor thinks it may be he is so ashamed that it may be why he is so quick to get angry. That is why she is taking this very slowly as she doesn't want him to quit counseling all together. So hopefully by continuing to go he will see that him to opening up to me is only going to make it worse, not better. 

I just pray that when our counselor leaves at the end of June, she gives us a good referral to someone else. It just sucks to have to start all over with a new counselor again.


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

Well I've come to my breaking point. The kids summer break came up last week. On Thursday which was the second to the last day of school, I left for work, I told them have a good day at school and they called me like normal at the end of the day to tell me they just got home. Well come to find out, they asked my H if they could stay home that day and he let them since it was the end of school. He called them in "sick" 2 minutes after I left for work. Then when I found out yesterday and asked him why they were home, he continued to lie to me and say they were sick so I let them stay home. I know for a fact this is a lie and he told them, pretend you are going to school and don't tell your mom I let you stay home. They laughed about it after I found out and they all continued to lie to me.

So if he will lie to me about this, then he will lie to me about anything. He tells me he's sorry and I'm making more out of it than I should. I told him no I'm not, because even though he said sorry, he continued to lie instead of coming out with the truth! 

So I told our counselor that I'm done with this marriage and to cancel our appointment for tonight. She wants to see me for IC which I will gladly go for. I'm tired of being the only one who is trying to save our marriage.

Thank you all for the advice and for just listening. This site has helped me out a lot. I will still come here once in awhile and hopefully once I finally get through all this I can help someone else!


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Thinking of you as you go through this.


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

Well I didn't leave him yet. He wanted to continue counseling, we went a couple more times and I went by myself a few times. We found out he has been struggling with low testosterone so he's been on meds since the beginning of July. This has helped with his anger some but he still gets frustrated very quickly. He has tried to help me with answering more questions, but then if we are talking about his A and it's something he doesn't like to hear, he once again comes back with, see this isn't helping you at all, it's only making it worse. You will continue holding this over my head until we die. There was a conversation we had about why he had to talk about me and our marriage and tell her all these lies. Well to me they are lies, to him it's how he saw our marriage and me. Then he gets angry and tells me that I'm just a big baby because he talked about me and that is he upset and crying because I talked to her about him that first night? He just doesn't get it. Now he claims I won't let him do anything because I don't want him having inappropriate conversations with people online when playing games, even if you tell me you are all joking around. That he needs to have boundries and he said he shouldn't have to censor himself because I think it's inappropriate. I'm at the point where I don't think he will ever get it.

I asked him today when can he move out because I can't live without having boundries. He said he has to save up for a deposit and rent. Then when I asked, what are we suppose to tell the kids and when. I get I don't know, when do you think? OMG, I'm ready to scream. I really don't know what the tell the kids at this point, I know they are going to be devastated and I don't want this to affect how they do in school. Any suggestions? 

I hope that if and when he does move out, I can finally move on. I do love him very much, I just can't live like this anymore. I've tried to be strong and have him leave before but give him a few days and he's all nice, loving and caring, I cave in. Ugh, this sucks. 

Thanks for listening.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I don't ask questions much at all at this point. When I do my wife is ready and willing to answer any of them. So I get your frustration in having a WS not answer questions. When my wife started to do so it was a huge relief and when she did so even when I asked some tough questions it was a bigger relief, knowing that she was willing to talk about anything. After D-day in February and my wife decided to spend a weekend with her youngest brother my oldest son called me (he is special needs and went with her), he started to call his mother some nasty names. She did not realize it but after my son hung up and phone redialed and I heard their conversation. She was saying that his father (me) would hold this over her head for the rest of her life. This is a cheater's mindset (IM) until they come clean and really focus on R. Yes there is a chance that the BS will hold it over the WS for the rest of the M, but it is not fair and the BS does at some point need to move forward. I am not saying that the A becomes off limits, it is that we do move forward and we do start to heal, or at least I hope we start to heal, I am. 

Until your husband lays aside his own discomfort with the questions your healing really can't start. Your frustration and threatening to leave or D or whatever is totally based upon your H not giving you what you need. 

And the lies. I really understand that. No matter what the lie is, it will set me off big time. Early in R (May) my wife lied about something very little and it set me off big time. She got it.

Last night I was thinking about the A and was in a down mood. My wife came to me and said what's wrong? I said nothing. She said again, what's wrong? I said I am just thinking about what happened. She huged me gave me a kiss and said, I want to give you a bath. She did. My wife is finally in tune with my feelings. I don't have to say a word and she senses when I am in a funk, even if it is for a few minutes of me sitting on the back steps watching the dogs. 

It is not all one sided. I reach out to her as well. It is a nice feeling to know that she is in tune and my wife is having some health problems that started a month ago and is still in tune with me. 

Your husband has issues that he needs to work through as well as you but in all honesty, the WS has to lay a lot of those aside for the time being and work on you and your needs. In the process he will find you responding in more positive ways. Until he understands that you both will continue in this limbo land and your healling can't be realized.

Here is something from surviving infidelity.com 

The Healing Library 
What the WS/BS Must Do to Reconcile 

JUST GET OVER IT ALREADY! 
How many times has that been said to you? If it has been said to you even once, then that is a big red flag! No one has the right to tell this to you. If it is your therapist telling you this, then you need a new therapist because obviously this one has no understanding of infidelity. If it is your spouse telling you this, then they have no understanding of the devastation that they have caused. 
In order to "get over it", you and your spouse must be given the proper tools and a map. I do not feel that you can successfully navigate the road from infidelity towards healing without these two things. 

You do not really "get over it"...you can move beyond it, but you will carry the scars for life as a reminder. You do not forget, but you can forgive...if and only if you and your spouse have the tools and the map. 

The former cheating spouse has the biggest responsibility in the healing process. They hold the key for the healing of you and your marriage. 

Your spouse must be willing to make it their mission in life to heal you...no matter how long it takes. They should not have to even ask you what you need to help you heal...they should seek professional advice from others and start implementing it immediately. Maybe down the road they will need to seek your own personal advice. You hold the timeline to your own healing. 

They need to explain to the children, if they are old enough, that they have hurt you terribly and that they are doing everything to help you heal. They need to tell the children that it is not the children's fault or the betrayed spouses fault. If they see the betrayed spouse getting angry at the former cheating spouse, that this is normal and well deserved and part of healing. They are to be told that they are not to blame the betrayed spouse for their emotional outbursts toward the cheating spouse and that the betrayed spouse should be commended for being willing to give them another chance because they do not deserve it. 

In order for your marriage to successfully survive these are some things that your spouse must do: 

He must be totally honest with you about everything 
He must answer every question that you ask truthfully and fully. 
He must do everything in his power to prove to you that you are the one that he wants to be with. 
He must prove his love to you...he must be patient, gentle, compassionate and understanding. 
He must feel your pain. 
He must fully understand the devastation that he caused you. 
He must accept full responsibility for his actions. 
He must stop all contact with OP and not try to protect them. 
He must reassure you that it is OK to ask questions. 
He must reassure you that you will not drive him away by doing the things that are necessary to heal. 
He must recognize when your struggling or experiencing a trigger and comfort you. 
He must be able to tell you how sorry he is and show you. 
He must re-enforce to you, that you are not responsible. 
He must put his own feelings of guilt and shame aside and help you heal first. 
He must reconnect emotionally, mentally, and physically with you and stay connected. 
He must work on rebuilding trust. No secrets. No privacy. 
He must be willing to seek counseling. 
He must learn what is and is not acceptable when communicating with the opposite sex...he must establish boundaries and not cross them. 
Here is a list of things that you must do: 
Give him the necessary time to prove his love and commitment to you. 
Be open with your feelings. 
Ask the questions that are important to you. 
Don't be afraid that you will drive him away while you are trying to heal. 
Stop blaming yourself for his actions. You are in no way responsible...even if you are Attila the Hun! 
You must be able to let him connect with you. (this one takes time) 
You must continue checking up on him in order to let him rebuild trust. 
You must be willing to seek counseling so that you do not get stuck in one of the stages of recovery such as anger or depression. 
These are just a few of the things that I have thought of off the top of my head. With these things in place, then reconciliation can be successful. It is still a long journey, but with baby steps it can be achieved. For me, with all these things in place it took about 1 1/2 years to get to a really comfortable place. Without a majority of these things, I do not see how reconciliation can be successful. 
If you were to decide to climb Mt Everest and you looked in the phone book under expeditions and called a company and told them that you wanted to climb Mt Everest and they said great. Then you would ask them how to do it. If their reply was to "just get over it", then I am sure that you would call some other company. You would know that it would require the proper tools and a map and a team approach. Well, you are facing a mountain that you need and want to climb. You cannot "just get over it". It doesn't happen that way. It will take the proper tools and a map and team work. 

The majority of the things that I mentioned must take place from BOTH spouses before a successful reconciliation takes place. I am also only addressing reconciliation here, however the betrayed spouse has other options. If your spouse is doing EVERYTHING that has been recommended by the therapist to help you heal and you have made NO progress after say 1 year, then the betrayed spouse probably needs a new therapist who can help her better evaluate the situation and help her to start giving her spouse credit for what he is doing or come up with other options rather than reconciliation. Some betrayed spouses cannot reconcile no matter what their spouse does, but they may need therapy to move beyond the infidelity anyway. 

If after 6 mos, the betrayed spouse has NOT progressed and the former cheating spouse is NOT doing his part, then there is no reason to expect any progress from the betrayed spouse toward reconciliation. Each person has a role in the reconciliation process...including knowing when enough is enough. I would never expect a former cheating spouse to be able to hang in there after 1 1/2 to 2 years of doing EVERYTHING recommended and seeing NO progress from the BS. I would also never expect a betrayed spouse to hang on for years if her spouse is doing NOTHING to help her heal. 

I believe that forgiveness is independent of the cheater helping you heal. Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself...not the other person. 

In the early stages the former cheater needs to find out from professionals what to do to help you heal. The wounded spouse is often in no condition to be able to know this in the beginning. Once the wounded spouse is down the road towards recovery, then they will be able to fine tune what is needed, but initially...no way. 


Erica


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks Thornburn. I have been actually reading your thread to see how you dealt with everything and how you wife was, but I'm only on page 11. 

I try not to ask many questions anymore because I know it just makes our situation worse because its hard for my H to talk about it. There are times when the questions play over and over in my mind so I have to ask. 

I see that my H has been trying some. It's just so frustrating and hurtful when he gets angry at me for a trigger or asking something he doesn't like. He has told me that he's sorry for what he did and that he can never forgive himself. I think this is why it's so hard for him to talk about, he's ashamed and feels guilty. I tell him all the time that I do appreciate the fact that he does talk to me and answer questions sometimes and it truly does help.

Last week was really difficult for me. It was our anniversary on the 22nd. Well last year on my anniversary was when I got an email from his AP telling me how the two of them talked and they are in it for the long haul and how much they love each other. How I mean nothing to my H, I'm only the mother of his children and nothing more, and if it wasn't her in the picture it would be another woman but she feels my H would never get back together with me. And how she's not going anywhere and they are going to be together. So when my anniversary comes around this year, my H doesn't even acknowlege it. I get no card, no happy anniversary, nothing. I knew it was our anniversary and I didn't say anything to him because I was having such a hard time. Then when I tell him the the next day that it was a really hard day for me and I was triggering because of the email I got last year, he askes me, so what did you get one this year too? Really, that's all I get, no comforting, no telling me it will be okay, we will get through this, nothing. Oh I did get, sorry I forgot about our anniversary. That was it. And he wonders why my bad days continue longer than they should.

I just don't know what to do anymore. I do love him but I'm starting to realize that it's not enough. He tells me he wants to be with me, but only when I have my happy face on. The minute I say or ask something he doesn't want to hear or tell him I'm having a bad day and why, then it all changes and he's so unhappy, he doesn't even want to come home from work and wishes he never came back. 

Does it ever get better?


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

The WS should not be setting the terms of when you talk about things. let's be honest he is trying is best to avoid this. 

I am the BS. The only thing I agreed to about our conversations is no one else in the house and not when we were tired. 

It really too almost a year to get all the truth out of my wife. I knew some of the answers but I wanted her to tell me. I felt it would help rebuild the trust if she owned up to what happened instead of me just saying I know I saw the pictures or I read the email.


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks mahike. Its the same way I feel, some of the questions, I think I know the answers to but I want to hear it from him to try and build up the trust. Sometimes I get, what does it matter or how is this going to help you. I try to explain it will help build trust and he just doesn't get it. He claims all it does it make it worse. No, it only makes it worse for him because he's uncomfortable and ashamed so yes he wants to avoid talking about it at all.

I just don't know what do to anymore. Do I hold out hope that it gets better as time goes on and he can reconnect with me again? Ugh, this sucks.


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## Pault (Aug 15, 2012)

woogy said:


> Now he claims I won't let him do anything because I don't want him having inappropriate conversations with people online when playing games, even if you tell me you are all joking around. That he needs to have boundries and he said he shouldn't have to censor himself because I think it's inappropriate. I'm at the point where I don't think he will ever get it.
> 
> 
> > You are absolutley right to ask for and expect boundries. If anyone in a relationship starts to disengage in that relationship and then considers, plans or goes through with an EA or PA then the hurt party has absolute right to call the shots on what the next steps are, what information is wanted, how often you ask for that info and expect truth (even though it isnt going to be the truth in the main instance). If there are factors that the hurt party finds upsetting, triggers concern about their relationship or cause anxiety about that relationship then the offender has no argument about any reasonable boundries laid down and expected.
> ...


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

I posted this on another thread about resentments. When my H and I were dating we had talked about having children. In his previous relationship his gf had a son. My H got close to him and felt like a father to this boy. After they broke up he missed it and told me he wanted kids and wanted to be a better dad than his father was to him. I have always wanted kids so we decided to try even though we werent married. The first test we took was negative, the second was positive. After the first doctor appt, I talked to an uncle that I am close to and he asked if we were going to get married. I told him we had not talked about it. My uncle said wouldnt you like to have the sMe last name on the birth certificate as your child. So I thought about this and asked my H the next day about getting married. He told me he didnt want to since his parents had such a rough marriage that ended in divorce. It hurt that he didnt want to get married but I ubderstood where he was coming from since my parents also had a rocky marriage. So I let it go. Well my H came back to me and said he thought about it more and he wants us to get married. I asked him if he was sure since he already told me no and he said, I told you no because you asked me at 6 oclock in the morning, I was tired and didnt have any coffee yet, but now I had time to think and yes its what I want.

Now his whole story has changed. Its now become I trapped him by getting myself pregnant because I told him I was on the pill. I was never on the pill when we met, I had no need to be on the pill. He recalls us talking about kids but tells me that we never decided to try, that we were just talking. And of course he was forced to marry me because it was the right thing to do since I was pregnant. I tried to explain to him that he made me believe he wanted to get married and now its not the case. He tells me what does it matter what he thinks. I asked him how is he suppose to reconnect with me if this is what he thinks about me. His response, then what are doing, why dont we just call it quits and be done and if you cant let go, why are we together. How do I let go of him rewriting our history and he actually believes it. Will he ever stop believing these lies he is telling himself?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Put it to him to take responsibility. Nobody put a gun to his head to marry. Because you wanted to marry him didn't obligated him to marry you. You want to stay married to a man that takes honest responsibility for his life. You would like him to be that man.

If he no longer wishes to be married, he is free to choose divorce. It is not what you would choose but since it only takes one vote to opt out, you can't put a gun to his head to force him to remain.

Rewrite history as he may, however dishonest that may be, he will never again be able to argue the fact that you forced him to stayarried to you. However, his dishonesty has not gone unnoticed and the damage it has done to the foundation of the relationship must be mended.

Argue nothing. Let him blah, blah, blah about it.

He will say you should split. You addressed that he is free to choose his path. Leave it there. You have nothing more to say.

He is a chicken. A man who takes no responsibility is a man you can't trust. Get your ducklings in a row in case the worst occurs. If he hangs around long enough, insist on MC. But be prepared for him to push arguments to cause you to act. 

If you choose to act, do so stealthily.

The bottom line is what you will accept. A man who isn't honest and who is building a case for something - possibly cheating - or a man who can grow up and accept responsibility for his choices and who is a man of integrity. If he can't do those things, he is a lying little boy.

Best of luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

I have told him if he doesnt want to talk about his affair, talk about him rewriting history or talking resposibiliy for his choices and not blame me he can leave. He wont, he wants me to kick him out. He doesnt want to be the bad guy in the kids eyes. That way he can tell them he did everything he could to make our marriage work but I couldnt accept that and kicked him out.

He was the primary cargiver to the kids for half of our marriage, so the kids are much closer to him than they are me. They believe anything he tells them. I could not live with my kids hating me for breaking up our family, even though the kids know about his affair, they will still believe whatever story my H gives them. So it looks like I am stuck for now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

I'm looking for opinions. My H has days off during the week so he's home alone. I have been using the VAR to make sure everthing is okay. Well I was just listening to it today and he's on there talking to one of his online friends about his affair. He's telling him how awesome this girl was and how much fun they had. How he only came home because the I couldn't handle the kids and they were running wild and how he should have never come back. He also said that she came to our state to be with him for a little while and the kids met her. Now this is different from what he told me, he said she never came here, they were making plans for her to come visit and it never happened. According to Skype they were on there almost everyday, there are a few days missing here and there. So could it be she really did come here or is he just making this up so he doesn't look like a fool for being with someone he's never met in person? I want to ask my kids about it but I don't want them upset.

There were some other things he said to his friend like he broke up with her because there were things she didn't tell him in the beginning that he couldn't overlook and that she was still with her ex on the side. Again, she broke it off with him, I saw the text messages because she sent them to me, so is he lying so he looks like the big tough guy?

It really p*sses me off that he's once again talking sh*t about me saying I can't handle the kids on my own. We were fine when he was gone, I talked to the kids and told them I will need help and they stepped up. But of course he doesn't know this because he wasn't around. He also said I'm no monitoring everything he's doing and saying because I sit downstairs and watch him play his games. Which I did send him a text that I'm not down there to monitor him, I'm down there so I can spend time with him otherwise when would I see him? No response.

Oh one more thing, he told his friend he got a text message from her area code but not her number saying, hey how are you doing? But he didn't respond. I asked him before if she tries to contact him would he tell me and he said yes. He never told me this. When I asked him, he said he didn't know who it was and lied and said he wasn't sure if it was her area code but he never responded. When I asked why didn't he tell me, he comes back with it was only one message and I didn't respond, it wasn't a bunch like your making it out to be. 

I talked to my girlfriend about this and she thinks I should confront him with this and if he tries to lie, play the recording. I don't really want to do that because I don't want him to know about the VAR at this point. Plus all I can see happening is him getting angry, all hell breaking loose and a screaming match. I have enough stress as it is. 

Ugh, I so hate all this. So what do you guys think?


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## youkiddingme (Jul 30, 2012)

Sounds to me like you have already determined that he is a lying, deceiving cheater. You just need to realize that you picked a jerk, are pregnant with his child....and make plans to move on. He is what he is. You are not going to change him. Move on and cut your losses.


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## Moulin (Jul 30, 2013)

It doesn't matter why his story is different. It means he's still lying to someone, period. 

If he was remorseful, it was the perfect opportunity instead of bragging to say, 'I can't believe I was so stupid to risk my marriage and hurt my family by having fooling around'. 

I'd file for divorce and start the proceedings. He continues to push and push and push the boundaries.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Well regardless of what if what he said is the real truth or not, the stories don’t match. So you know you have someone who has zero problems lying and letting people think whatever he wants them to think.

Also note he is not presenting you or the family is a good way. So he doesn’t really care how others might see you or think about you as long as he doesn’t come out looking bad. Not one bit about how he messed you up was there.. Sort of a “she’s lucky I came back because she needs me so much.” Ummmm.... that is nothing like showing any signs of remorse at all.

Worried about the kids and they know about the affair? What is the lesson you are teaching them so one day they too will get married and it’ll be ‘ok’ because their spouse won’t really leave them over something like that... right?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Bottom line, he's still not being loyal to you and the marriage isn't his top priority at a time when he should be fighting to keep you.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

woogy said:


> My H is finally coming around and has decided he will answer my questions. He doesn't want to talk about it daily though so we compromised and said we would talk about it once a week and if it got heated or started an argument, we would stop and continue later. So today was the first time we sat down and talked. Now I'm having a really bad night and my thoughts have taken over again. I was doing good and my mind wasn't racing as much until now. The discussion started to turn to an argument so we stopped. Now I have more questions running through my head. Does this ever stop? How can I make it through another week with all these questions?


Stop letting him control the situation. He's just going to be prepared and deflect, procrastinate, and lie. So either he talks or you walk. You can't let a cheater have control. IF you do you enable him to be able to manipulate you. Tell him once a week isn't going to work. Tell him you are trying to work through all of this and you are not going to sit on your questions because he wants six days of amnesty. Every day he doesn't answer questions is one more day you have to worry, stress, and wonder what really happened. That's not fair to you.

Also What is really going on with him right now is one of those symptoms of people in a physical or Emontional Affair. Rewritten history you stop being the love of his life and he starts wondering if he made the right choice. He starts wondering if maybe he really didn't fall in love with you, or want to get married. Maybe he didn't buy the ring because he wanted you he just was doing it for the kid. After all he wouldn't feel this way about someone else if he was really in love with you. 
Gaslighting is another tactic where he hones in on some mundane conversation that wasn't serious but now that he screwed up yea that's how it was. 

All I see is a cheat putting the blame on you. Not someone who is in deep remorse for making a terrible mistake.


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

Thank you all for your opinions. I really appreciate it. 

It feels like this past year I've been living a lie. He's been so nice and telling me all the time he want's to grow old with me, how sorry he is for hurting me and how we will get through this. Then he turns around and brags to his friend about his affair. OMG!

As for the kids, I did ask my daughter if she ever met her in person and she told me know, she didn't and she never knew what she looked like. So that was good to hear, at least he wasn't lying to me. I think he lied to his friend because he doesn't want to look like a fool but like you all said, it's still lying.

Why is it so hard to let go? I told him if he doesn't want to be here no one is stopping him but he never leaves. He gets angry and then it's back to being nice and loving. 

I really want to confront him about this and ask him why he was bragging to his friend and talking about me instead of sticking up for me and our marriage. But again, it will just cause a war and I don't have the energy to fight.


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

badbane said:


> Stop letting him control the situation. He's just going to be prepared and deflect, procrastinate, and lie. So either he talks or you walk. You can't let a cheater have control. IF you do you enable him to be able to manipulate you. Tell him once a week isn't going to work. Tell him you are trying to work through all of this and you are not going to sit on your questions because he wants six days of amnesty. Every day he doesn't answer questions is one more day you have to worry, stress, and wonder what really happened. That's not fair to you.
> 
> Also What is really going on with him right now is one of those symptoms of people in a physical or Emontional Affair. Rewritten history you stop being the love of his life and he starts wondering if he made the right choice. He starts wondering if maybe he really didn't fall in love with you, or want to get married. Maybe he didn't buy the ring because he wanted you he just was doing it for the kid. After all he wouldn't feel this way about someone else if he was really in love with you.
> Gaslighting is another tactic where he hones in on some mundane conversation that wasn't serious but now that he screwed up yea that's how it was.
> ...


Thanks badbane. He has gotten better about talking to me and answering my questions. 

As for the rewriting history, I agree that cheaters do this but usually once out of the fog they realize it was all made up in there head. My H still thinks the things he said to her were truth.

I do agree, he's not as remorseful as I thought.


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## Moulin (Jul 30, 2013)

Also, the fact that he still speaks so highly of his partner in crime bodes very poorly that he may be tempted to do this again. Maybe not with her but the next piece of ass that comes along. 

Either way, he was ridiculously disrespectful in speaking about you that way. For that reason alone during reconciliation or not I'd be filing.


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

He's acting all confused like he doesn't know what I'm talking about. I sent him several texts telling him I didn't appreciate him bragging about his affair and talking sh*t about me once again. And again he comes back with, who was I bragging to? I'm not responding, I'm sure he can figure it out. 

I just need to be strong but I know the minute I see him at home, I always break and forgive him.


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## Moulin (Jul 30, 2013)

He's going to play dumb hoping you don't *really* know. What is the point of trying to get him to confess? It doesn't undo the facts. 

It's up to you but even if he came clean and admitted it, it doesn't undo that damage either. He'll just go elsewhere to brag about his conquests, etc.


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## woogy (Dec 20, 2012)

Moulin said:


> He's going to play dumb hoping you don't *really* know. What is the point of trying to get him to confess? It doesn't undo the facts.
> 
> It's up to you but even if he came clean and admitted it, it doesn't undo that damage either. He'll just go elsewhere to brag about his conquests, etc.


I was hoping he would do the right thing and tell me the truth. I guess I should know better. He will deny, deny, deny until I show him proof. Not going to happen this time. Let him wonder how I found out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

My father asked me about my mom and another man when I was a tween. I lied to him. His suspicion was accurate.

Your kids might lie to protect their dad, too. It isn't necessarily him vs. you. A kid's security is wrapped up in stability at home. Lying may be more about protecting themselves than him.

As for fear of your kids blaming you... They are children. Their perceptions are not accurate. Letting them deternine an adult decision means you have abdicated your role as a parent to them. 

All they see now is that cheating is to be tolerated. One of their parents needs to fight the good fight. It won't be him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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