# Son is now living with mother, she's taking me to court.



## Carlton1

Hello all. Looking for some feedback.

My son has decided to live with his mother full time. We share custody, legal and custodial. She was a cheater, which ended the marriage. I tried desperately to save it.

For the past 9 years, we have been sharing costs of the children. I pay a little more because I make more.

My new wife and I moved into a new house and we sold my old home. She has kids, too. That's about when the problems started.

First he would complain that I yell too much, that stopped, then that there was no food in my old house, which was untrue. But both were corrected and fine for a while. He has flat out disrespected the food I've made him calling it disgusting and been a little brat for many years now. Everyone else loved it. I believe he needs a good kick in the butt. Now he has no reason why he doesn't want to come. He is 15, and super entitled. We have also been to therapy at his (really his mother's though him) request.

He is allowed to stay at her home by himself, on my visitation days, with no supervision. She has left him to his own devices several times for DAYS, up to four days in one shot.

She has framed going to my home as punishment. He has been forced to stay at my home once, by her, and came on his own free will other times.

He is allowed to stay in his room unlimited hours, no exercise, playing video games for hours on end. No in-person social interaction. He talks back to her, a lot.

He eats crap food while there. My ex is as big as a house, now. He seems slim, though I could eat a pound of oreos and not gain an ounce at that age. 

I'm worried for his mental health. I'm worried about his physical health.

At my house, they have to go outside for an hour each day, minimum, and play. We provide awesome tasting and mostly nutritious foods, we aren't health nuts. He can be on his computer, but needs to pack it up by midnight, on weekends, and go to bed. There are minor chores that need to be done, folding laundry, cleaning up after yourself, etc. He has his own room that is way better than the one at his mother's.

She is now seeking to modify our support agreement, and now apply the 17% rule. I could almost tell by the judge, that I was already guilty. Pretty much she said he is of the age where he can decide for himself. Child support will be dolled out accordingly, end of story.

We live in NY state. We deviated from the child support standards, years ago in our divorce. We pay for the kids expenses, and for food when they are at our respective houses out of our own pocket. Kick in a little more when needed. She has not put her share in the account for years, stating she uses her own card to get better deals. She provides no receipts as she is supposed to. I have been paying the kid's insurance for years with no reimbursement. I have also put my share in every month, on time, every time. It equates to about $1000 total for two kids from both of us. 17% would mean I pay her an extra $1000 per month, or it could be more.

I think she pretty much sees this as a cash grab, as I make more than I did when we divorced.

Am I just going to take it on the chin?


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## jlg07

You need to get a shark lawyer to get this stopped and straightened out. Don't just sit and allow her to run roughshod over you.


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## bobert

Carlton1 said:


> She has not put her share in the account for years, stating she uses her own card to get better deals. She provides no receipts as she is supposed to. I have been paying the kid's insurance for years with no reimbursement. I have also put my share in every month, on time, every time.


I can understand why a teenage boy would rather live at your ex's house, and it is reasonable for a parent to change child support to accommodate for that change. If your son is going to live with your ex full-time then 17% is what's required as the noncustodial parent. I don't see any way around that, legally or morally. You will need to rework the agreement for your other child though because that money should cover one child, not two. Your ex doesn't get to double dip, that is not reasonable. 

It's totally possible that she sees this as a cash grab though, especially given her past behavior, but you have spent years allowing yourself to be her doormat. Why? 

If you haven't already, it's time to get a lawyer.


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## Diana7

He sounds like an unhappy teenager. From what you say it sounds as if he was fine living part time with you and his own sibling,but once you bought a new family in he didnt like it, which is maybe not surprising. Does he get on with your wife? With her children? How old are her children?
At 15 he is really old enough to want to have an input in where he lives, of course he will mainly choose her because he can do as he likes there and maybe he feels more relaxed with his mum and brother/sister. He will soon be an adult and you will no longer need to pay for his care. Suck it up for the next 2-3 years.


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## bobert

Diana7 said:


> He sounds like an unhappy messed up teenager. At 15 he is really old enough to decide where he lives, of course he will mainly choose her because he can do as he likes there. He will soon be an adult and you will no longer need to pay for his care. Suck it up for the next 2-3 years.


Unfortunately for the OP, he's obligated to pay child support until the kids are 21.


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## frusdil

bobert said:


> Unfortunately for the OP, he's obligated to pay child support until the kids are 21.


Omg really?

Over here it's only until 18, the end of the year they turn 18 if they're still in school. In certain circumstances it can be extended, but has to be applied for and there's no guarantee it will be granted, especially if the "child" is capable of working.


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## Carlton1

jlg07 said:


> You need to get a shark lawyer to get this stopped and straightened out. Don't just sit and allow her to run roughshod over you.


Unfortunately, the last Shark lawyer I got was more of a minnow. Her lawyer and him took us for a two year ride and were just pilfering our pockets. Then when it mattered my lawyer rolled and told me to pay her $2k a month when we had already settled on way less than that. Completely useless.


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## Carlton1

bobert said:


> I can understand why a teenage boy would rather live at your ex's house, and it is reasonable for a parent to change child support to accommodate for that change. If your son is going to live with your ex full-time then 17% is what's required as the noncustodial parent. I don't see any way around that, legally or morally. You will need to rework the agreement for your other child though because that money should cover one child, not two. Your ex doesn't get to double dip, that is not reasonable.
> 
> It's totally possible that she sees this as a cash grab though, especially given her past behavior, but you have spent years allowing yourself to be her doormat. Why?
> 
> If you haven't already, it's time to get a lawyer.


I disagree with the 17%. And, I don't believe handing over wads of cash to her every month is my moral obligation. She is the one causing this.

I have always paid what we agreed to. I have always paid even more than I was supposed to. Just because it boils down to him spending an extra two weeks at her house a month, it requires me to give her $500 those two weeks his food and extra electricity?


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## Carlton1

Carlton1 said:


> I disagree with the 17%. And, I don't believe handing over wads of cash to her every month is my moral obligation. She is the one causing this.
> 
> I have always paid what we agreed to. I have always paid even more than I was supposed to. Just because it boils down to him spending an extra two weeks at her house a month, it requires me to give her $500 those two weeks his food and extra electricity?


Being her doormat was to prevent something like this from happening. I just let it go, so I didn't wind up in court.


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## Carlton1

Diana7 said:


> He sounds like an unhappy teenager. From what you say it sounds as if he was fine living part time with you and his own sibling,but once you bought a new family in he didnt like it, which is maybe not surprising. Does he get on with your wife? With her children? How old are her children?
> At 15 he is really old enough to want to have an input in where he lives, of course he will mainly choose her because he can do as he likes there and maybe he feels more relaxed with his mum and brother/sister. He will soon be an adult and you will no longer need to pay for his care. Suck it up for the next 2-3 years.


We were getting along pretty well, and the last time he was here, we saw a completely different kid come out. He was laughing and hanging out with us away from the computer, participating in conversations and everything. He was being a goofy 15 year old kid. I have no idea what happened since then. Wife and him get along fine too, but she doesn't put up with his BS. She calls him on it and pretty much tells him that it is not acceptable, as I do, too.


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## Carlton1

Diana7 said:


> He sounds like an unhappy teenager. From what you say it sounds as if he was fine living part time with you and his own sibling,but once you bought a new family in he didnt like it, which is maybe not surprising. Does he get on with your wife? With her children? How old are her children?
> At 15 he is really old enough to want to have an input in where he lives, of course he will mainly choose her because he can do as he likes there and maybe he feels more relaxed with his mum and brother/sister. He will soon be an adult and you will no longer need to pay for his care. Suck it up for the next 2-3 years.


He wasn't fine with it. But yes he is unhappy. Going on vacations and hearing "this sucks" 5 million times an hour got old quick.

It's funny, my daughter is a really nice kid, and she wants to keep the status quo. She really likes coming to the house and hanging out, we do a lot of fun things together. She gets along with my wife's daughter, who is really nice. She has another daughter that is, for lack of a better word... an a-hole. Which is odd, because my son, who is being a jerk, gets along with her daughter who is also a jerk. Really weird.


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## bobert

frusdil said:


> Omg really?
> 
> Over here it's only until 18, the end of the year they turn 18 if they're still in school. In certain circumstances it can be extended, but has to be applied for and there's no guarantee it will be granted, especially if the "child" is capable of working.


In NYS, child support is paid until age 21. It's 18 in some (all? most?) other US states.


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## bobert

Carlton1 said:


> Unfortunately, the last Shark lawyer I got was more of a minnow. Her lawyer and him took us for a two year ride and were just pilfering our pockets. Then when it mattered my lawyer rolled and told me to pay her $2k a month when we had already settled on way less than that. Completely useless.


So, that doesn't sound like a "shark lawyer", aside from the taking you for a ride part. It sounds like a bad lawyer. So you no longer have a lawyer at all? 


Carlton1 said:


> I disagree with the 17%. And, I don't believe handing over wads of cash to her every month is my moral obligation. She is the one causing this.
> 
> I have always paid what we agreed to. I have always paid even more than I was supposed to. Just because it boils down to him spending an extra two weeks at her house a month, it requires me to give her $500 those two weeks his food and extra electricity?


It's your child. You are responsible for paying for the child until he's of age and the 17% is what is set by the state (you're lucky you're not paying 25%). Your ex and her lawyer are not pulling that number out of their butts. If the child is no longer living with you then your costs to feed, shelter, clothe, school costs, random things he asks for, etc. go down. Your exs go up, even if she's feeding him crappy food and has poor parenting techniques as far as your concerned. The custodial parent typically gets stuck with _far_ more daily costs that pop up. 

You say your ex is causing this, do you think that's due to her home being more desirable for a teenager, or due to parental alienation? If the latter, then you need to have proof and that needs to go to court. Many teens end up wanting to live with one parent or the other to stop the back and forth, and they are going to choose the more fun parent. 


Carlton1 said:


> Being her doormat was to prevent something like this from happening. I just let it go, so I didn't wind up in court.


Again, the 17% is the minimum set by the state. I don't think it's crazy for her to ask for it and I don't think you're getting out of it. However you do need to come up with a fair plan for the additional expenses and the costs for the other child. She doesn't get to double dip. 


Carlton1 said:


> He wasn't fine with it. But yes he is unhappy. Going on vacations and hearing "this sucks" 5 million times an hour got old quick.


You said he complains all the time on vacation, complains about your cooking being disgusting, and he's overall been a brat "for many years now". Are there any consequences for him acting like that because it doesn't sound like it? If he can't be respectful at the dinner table, then he can go hungry. If he's going to be a brat on vacation, he can sit in the hotel or guess who doesn't get to go next time? Do you try to get him involved with cooking or picking dinner? Ask what HE would like to do on your "vacations"?


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## frusdil

bobert said:


> Again, the 17% is the minimum set by the state. I don't think it's crazy for her to ask for it and I don't think you're getting out of it. However you do need to come up with a fair plan for the additional expenses and the costs for the other child. She doesn't get to double dip.


I think it's outrageous of her to ask for it, if she's deliberately alienating the child from his father. IF that's what she's doing, which it sounds like to me. She asked for those extra costs when she started doing that imo.


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## Diana7

bobert said:


> Unfortunately for the OP, he's obligated to pay child support until the kids are 21.


Its 18 in the uk, weird that its 3 years older there? After all the child could be working for a few years by then.


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## TJW

bobert said:


> Are there any consequences for him acting like that because it doesn't sound like it?


 His "big-as-a-house" POS cheating mother is as entitled as he is..... she will take your money and prevent any consequences. And, the liberal New York mindset will enforce it.
This is all so disheartening to me....I'm an old guy who is delighted that I'll never see what this society comes to....


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## Diana7

Carlton1 said:


> We were getting along pretty well, and the last time he was here, we saw a completely different kid come out. He was laughing and hanging out with us away from the computer, participating in conversations and everything. He was being a goofy 15 year old kid. I have no idea what happened since then. Wife and him get along fine too, but she doesn't put up with his BS. She calls him on it and pretty much tells him that it is not acceptable, as I do, too.


How about you take him out on your own and ask him what happened.


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## bobert

frusdil said:


> I think it's outrageous of her to ask for it, if she's deliberately alienating the child from his father. IF that's what she's doing, which it sounds like to me. She asked for those extra costs when she started doing that imo.


It the ex-wife is intentionally alienating the child then I 100% agree with you, I'm just not sure she is. The ex-wife pushed the son to do therapy with the OP, it makes sense that her house is more desirable for a teen and the other child isn't being affected.


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## manfromlamancha

Has your ex remarried or living with someone?


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## MJJEAN

Diana7 said:


> Its 18 in the uk, weird that its 3 years older there? After all the child could be working for a few years by then.


It varies by state. In my state they use birthdate to determine when a child starts Kindergarten. Children born before December 17th start school at age 4. Children born after December 17 start school at age 5. Because of this, some kids graduate high school at 17 and some graduate after they've turned 18. So, child support is typically ordered until the child turns 18 or graduates High School, whichever happens first.

@Carlton1 
Are you and your son in therapy together or is it just your son? Has the therapist had anything to say?


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## Livvie

Sounds like he's not enthused about the new house, new wife, new step kids.

If I were a child of divorce, I could see myself feeling that way. 

My own kids aren't very enthused about their dads new wife. And that's with no step kids involved. That's just life.


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## DownByTheRiver

I just want to forewarn you that normally, cheating is not much of a factor in rulings on divorce or child custody. It's all about the child's welfare to a judge. Dating activity would sometimes be taken into account if you had proof that a revolving door of strange men were coming over and the child was exposed to that. But that could also be taken into account if you had a gang of men friends over frequently if it came down to a judge hearing that issue. 
Judges normally want both willing parents to have access to the child, for the child's sake. I'm sure every judge has dealt with kids who just want to stay with the most lenient parent, so it's fine to say that and especially if you could convince the judge that her lack of discipline was bringing down the son's grades or harming him some way. But that would be hard to prove if you've been trading off weekly or whatever. Your lawyer might subpoena school records and maybe you could find something on there where he misses more school when he's under the custody of his mother or gets into more trouble or something. But you'd have to have a good calendar of when exactly your days with him were to even put that together. 

You can also just maintain the stance that you want to see your boy as much as possible and have 50/50 joint custody, which is the norm in the US but I understand not so much other countries. I mean, it's hard for a judge to fault a guy who wants to take care of his son as much as possible. 

Only other tip I can give you: Be the sane one who doesn't raise his voice or say crazy emotionally exaggerated things. Judges look for that because it's about all they have to go on as to who these two people are before them. Don't ever interrupt the judge or anyone when they're speaking in court. Listen. Don't be thinking what you're going to say as someone else is speaking. Be the calm rational one, even if your head is about to explode. Answer questions succinctly and answer what's asked, not what's on your mind. You can always have your lawyer bring that up later and make a note of it. 

Yes, sir, no, ma'am. Be respectful to everyone. Don't engage at all with the ex in the room except "good morning." Polite. 

Good luck.


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## TomNebraska

Carlton1 said:


> Unfortunately, the last Shark lawyer I got was more of a minnow. Her lawyer and him took us for a two year ride and were just pilfering our pockets. Then when it mattered my lawyer rolled and told me to pay her $2k a month when we had already settled on way less than that. Completely useless.


You don't need a shark lawyer, you need a _competent _one. 

Talk to people to get a referral


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## Benbutton

Down by the river had a great reply. What you really need to do is hire a competent divorce attorney that specializes in custody issues, but don't stop there. Your next step is to request a Guardian Ad Litem. This person will review the issues, investigate the living situation with both parents, schooling, etc. And report the facts to the judge. They more or less act as the eyes and ears for the judge. Its worth a shot and will uncover what is difficult for you to prove to the court.


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## Livvie

Benbutton said:


> Down by the river had a great reply. What you really need to do is hire a competent divorce attorney that specializes in custody issues, but don't stop there. Your next step is to request a Guardian Ad Litem. This person will review the issues, investigate the living situation with both parents, schooling, etc. And report the facts to the judge. They more or less act as the eyes and ears for the judge. Its worth a shot and will uncover what is difficult for you to prove to the court.


A GAL? Unless there are unfit living conditions or abuse going on, there is no need. This child is 15. I bet the judge will take into consideration where he wants to live.


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## Benbutton

Thats an inaccurate statement, GAL'S are used quite often for custody issues outside of abuse and unfit living conditions. Please refrain from misleading statements as it isn't fair to the poster.


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## Benbutton

Of course a judge will take into account his age, but they aren't tied to it.


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## Ms. Hawaii

Benbutton said:


> Thats an inaccurate statement, GAL'S are used quite often for custody issues outside of abuse and unfit living conditions. Please refrain from misleading statements as it isn't fair to the poster.





Livvie said:


> A GAL? Unless there are unfit living conditions or abuse going on, there is no need. This child is 15. I bet the judge will take into consideration where he wants to live.


I externed for a family law judge my 1L summer. GAL are appointed at the discretion of the court. From my limited knowledge, the judge would agree to a GAL if they are concerned about some claims. Tbh the child is 15. It’s unlikely, although possible, that the court will appoint a GAL. IMO, there’s no need for a GAL. The child is old enough to communicate with the judge. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Benbutton

Ms. Hawaii said:


> I externed for a family law judge my 1L summer. GAL are appointed at the discretion of the court. From my limited knowledge, the judge would agree to a GAL if they are concerned about some claims. Tbh the child is 15. It’s unlikely, although possible, that the court will appoint a GAL. IMO, there’s no need for a GAL. The child is old enough to communicate with the judge.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My daughters were 14 when I took my ex back to court based on very similar claims op made. The judge appointed a GAL without ever speaking to them. The GAL wrote her report based on the findings and I was awarded half physical custody. The GAL interviewed my daughters, and made a determination that my ex was negatively influencing my daughters. As I said before, its worth a shot.


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## Livvie

Ms. Hawaii said:


> I externed for a family law judge my 1L summer. GAL are appointed at the discretion of the court. From my limited knowledge, the judge would agree to a GAL if they are concerned about some claims. Tbh the child is 15. It’s unlikely, although possible, that the court will appoint a GAL. IMO, there’s no need for a GAL. The child is old enough to communicate with the judge.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep.


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## Benbutton

Livvie said:


> Yep.


You realize its her opinion...


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## Ms. Hawaii

Benbutton said:


> You realize its her opinion...


Correct... I would never offer legal advice on TAM. 

That being said, you fail to understand that the judge has discretion which means they will decide if they want to appoint a GAL or not. I offered my opinion, so OP wouldn’t heavily rely on that when he goes to court. 


From what I’ve read, his son prefers to live with the mother, and she intends to go to court to amend their child custody agreement. 

Correct me if I’m wrong that there are no laws mandating the appointment of GALs in custody dispute. The judge will appoint one if they feel it’s necessary. In the jurisdiction where I was, most judges didn’t appoint GALs in situation similar to OPs.

I just wanted to offer my opinion. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TomNebraska

Yeah, don't listen to the peanut gallery on the internet; talk to a good attorney in your state or jurisdiction, as these laws vary from place to place, get an idea what it will cost, then decide what you want and what you and your son need, and fight for that.


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## Carlton1

bobert said:


> So, that doesn't sound like a "shark lawyer", aside from the taking you for a ride part. It sounds like a bad lawyer. So you no longer have a lawyer at all?
> 
> *Nope, no lawyer, yet...*
> 
> It's your child. You are responsible for paying for the child until he's of age and the 17% is what is set by the state (you're lucky you're not paying 25%). Your ex and her lawyer are not pulling that number out of their butts. If the child is no longer living with you then your costs to feed, shelter, clothe, school costs, random things he asks for, etc. go down. Your exs go up, even if she's feeding him crappy food and has poor parenting techniques as far as your concerned. The custodial parent typically gets stuck with _far_ more daily costs that pop up.
> 
> *Look, I get it. I never said I wanted to get out of paying for my kids. I always have and always will. 17%of my gross income is outrageous, considering that we have paid a fraction of that for the past 9 years. Now all of a sudden, she needs to have three times what we BOTH have been paying for years, from me alone, for two kids for just housing one of them? Let me remind you we both still have legal joint custody, it's just because he doesn't want to come most of the time. There has been no court ruling that states she is the sole custodian or sole legal guardian.*
> 
> You say your ex is causing this, do you think that's due to her home being more desirable for a teenager, or due to parental alienation? If the latter, then you need to have proof and that needs to go to court. Many teens end up wanting to live with one parent or the other to stop the back and forth, and they are going to choose the more fun parent.
> 
> *I think it is because she leaves him for days at a time alone in the house. So yes, that is desirable to him. She has few rules, doesn't enforce them, and he is allowed to doo as he pleases. "If you don't start behaving, you are going to your father's house" is something I have heard her say.*
> 
> Again, the 17% is the minimum set by the state. I don't think it's crazy for her to ask for it and I don't think you're getting out of it. However you do need to come up with a fair plan for the additional expenses and the costs for the other child. She doesn't get to double dip.
> 
> You said he complains all the time on vacation, complains about your cooking being disgusting, and he's overall been a brat "for many years now". Are there any consequences for him acting like that because it doesn't sound like it? If he can't be respectful at the dinner table, then he can go hungry. If he's going to be a brat on vacation, he can sit in the hotel or guess who doesn't get to go next time? Do you try to get him involved with cooking or picking dinner? Ask what HE would like to do on your "vacations"?
> 
> *Yes, I have been doing plenty of stuff to make him more respectful, correcting behavior. That's probably one of the reasons why he doesn't want to be here. But, when he leaves, any actions on my part go out the window at her house. Last he was here, he helped out with cooking. But alas, if I can't get him to come, I can't do anything with him.*


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## Carlton1

Diana7 said:


> How about you take him out on your own and ask him what happened.


We have gone to therapy. He can't articulate why.


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## Carlton1

manfromlamancha said:


> Has your ex remarried or living with someone?


Neither. She has a steady boyfriend for years. They never proposed or married, don't live together.
I think that's what started this all. I have a prettier, skinnier, more well educated, wife. She can't stand it, and I have been told that from one of her friends that it just consumes her.


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## Carlton1

@Carlton1
Are you and your son in therapy together or is it just your son? Has the therapist had anything to say?
[/QUOTE]

He went for most of the session, I would come in towards the end. It was pointless except to tell me that he had no idea why he wanted not to come, just that he didn't.

I have contacted the therapist for a statement.


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## Carlton1

TomNebraska said:


> Yeah, don't listen to the peanut gallery on the internet; talk to a good attorney in your state or jurisdiction, as these laws vary from place to place, get an idea what it will cost, then decide what you want and what you and your son need, and fight for that.


That's good advice. I plan on it.

Funny, but she has been denying my visitation for years. A day here, a day there. It's getting tiring. Especially now that my son has been gone for months. A day just this past week. I don't want anything more than just to have everyone follow the schedule as previously agreed to. That is what worked and everyone was happy up until that point. I guess except for my son.


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## Carlton1

Does anyone have any experience with opting out f NYS child support laws? I was under the impression that once you opt out, that's it, there is no going back. But from what the judge seems to be saying is that I'm headed to 17% land, just because my ex wife wants it. I've been pronounced guilty, with no arguments being heard. Granted, that's the first hearing, we are set to go again in a month for fact finding.

Thanks for the support from everyone. It's been harrowing the past few weeks. Not as bad as getting rid of her the first time, but still cra**y.


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## bobert

> Look, I get it. I never said I wanted to get out of paying for my kids. I always have and always will. 17% of my gross income is outrageous, considering that we have paid a fraction of that for the past 9 years. Now all of a sudden, she needs to have three times what we BOTH have been paying for years, from me alone, for two kids for just housing one of them? Let me remind you we both still have legal joint custody, it's just because he doesn't want to come most of the time. There has been no court ruling that states she is the sole custodian or sole legal guardian.


I understand that it's not fair and the numbers can seem outrageous. If I divorced, the amount I could end up paying my wife in child support is ridiculous - it could be 6 figures with alimony factored in. My "step" daughter's father pays around $950/month in CS, plus half of the extracurriculars, costs to house/feed her, etc., and he has never complained to us but I'm sure he complains to himself or friends/family. My household income is far higher than his and he knows we don't need his money at all.

In both situations, it is what it is if that is the number that is legally required/someone is entitled to. I don't see the point in complaining about it if you can't change it and have had it "easy" (aka, fair) for the last 9 years. Of course, you shouldn't let your ex walk all over you either. So definitely find a lawyer BEFORE your next court date and see what you can do. If your ex-wife is refusing visitation, then that's a big problem as well that shouldn't go ignored.


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## Carlton1

DownByTheRiver said:


> I just want to forewarn you that normally, cheating is not much of a factor in rulings on divorce or child custody. It's all about the child's welfare to a judge. Dating activity would sometimes be taken into account if you had proof that a revolving door of strange men were coming over and the child was exposed to that. But that could also be taken into account if you had a gang of men friends over frequently if it came down to a judge hearing that issue.
> Judges normally want both willing parents to have access to the child, for the child's sake. I'm sure every judge has dealt with kids who just want to stay with the most lenient parent, so it's fine to say that and especially if you could convince the judge that her lack of discipline was bringing down the son's grades or harming him some way. But that would be hard to prove if you've been trading off weekly or whatever. Your lawyer might subpoena school records and maybe you could find something on there where he misses more school when he's under the custody of his mother or gets into more trouble or something. But you'd have to have a good calendar of when exactly your days with him were to even put that together.
> 
> *She has introduced the children to probably seven different men over the years. Two women for me, one I am married to now. The kids know about the cheating, I made her tell them because my son was asking about it. We haven't been trading off for almost a year. I have been trying, but he never wants to come. *
> 
> You can also just maintain the stance that you want to see your boy as much as possible and have 50/50 joint custody, which is the norm in the US but I understand not so much other countries. I mean, it's hard for a judge to fault a guy who wants to take care of his son as much as possible.
> 
> *I agree about that, but if he wants to stay there for whatever reason, the judge has alreadystated I'm going to pay no matter what, it seems.*
> 
> Only other tip I can give you: Be the sane one who doesn't raise his voice or say crazy emotionally exaggerated things. Judges look for that because it's about all they have to go on as to who these two people are before them. Don't ever interrupt the judge or anyone when they're speaking in court. Listen. Don't be thinking what you're going to say as someone else is speaking. Be the calm rational one, even if your head is about to explode. Answer questions succinctly and answer what's asked, not what's on your mind. You can always have your lawyer bring that up later and make a note of it.
> 
> *Yes, this... great advice.*
> 
> Yes, sir, no, ma'am. Be respectful to everyone. Don't engage at all with the ex in the room except "good morning." Polite.
> 
> Good luck.


*Definitely one of the best pieces of advice thus far.*


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## Carlton1

Livvie said:


> A GAL? Unless there are unfit living conditions or abuse going on, there is no need. This child is 15. I bet the judge will take into consideration where he wants to live.


I will look into it. Not unfit, just messy in his room. He is required to maintain his room clean while here, bed made. Not so much at his mother's. That's probably part of the reason he doesn't want to come.

If her dog is any indication, it wasn't house broken until maybe three years old. Even now, it still craps every morning down stairs, from what I have seen.


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## bobert

Carlton1 said:


> I will look into it. Not unfit, just messy in his room. He is required to maintain his room clean while here, bed made. Not so much at his mother's. That's probably part of the reason he doesn't want to come.
> 
> If her dog is any indication, it wasn't house broken until maybe three years old. Even now, it still craps every morning down stairs, from what I have seen.


A messy room won't mean anything to a GAL or judge. Nor will a dog having accidents, unless they never clean it up. It's another expense that could be totally unnecessary.


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## Openminded

Teenagers often pick the “easiest” parent when they have that choice. He doesn’t want to be told what to do and apparently she‘s okay with that. He may come back into your life later but probably not now — at least not beyond a forced day now and then. As to the money, if that’s what she’s legally entitled to then very likely that’s what the judge will give her. Why wouldn’t he/she? So, in answer to your question at the end of your first post, yes — you’re apparently just going to take it on the chin.


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## TomNebraska

Carlton1 said:


> That's good advice. I plan on it.
> 
> Funny, but she has been denying my visitation for years. A day here, a day there. It's getting tiring. Especially now that my son has been gone for months. A day just this past week. I don't want anything more than just to have everyone follow the schedule as previously agreed to. That is what worked and everyone was happy up until that point. I guess except for my son.


Hope you've documented all this. it should be presented to the court


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## Carlton1

TomNebraska said:


> Hope you've documented all this. it should be presented to the court


I saved all of the text messages. Screenshots and all.

I even have a picture of him having a beer that SHE sent me... not sure if that will have any impact or not.


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## Carlton1

Openminded said:


> Teenagers often pick the “easiest” parent when they have that choice. He doesn’t want to be told what to do and apparently she‘s okay with that. He may come back into your life later but probably not now — at least not beyond a forced day now and then. As to the money, if that’s what she’s legally entitled to then very likely that’s what the judge will give her. Why wouldn’t he/she? So, in answer to your question at the end of your first post, yes — you’re apparently just going to take it on the chin.


Unfortunately, that's the way I see this going. The judged asked what the living arrangements were now, that he refuses to come with me some days. There has been no change in custody, legally, but she pretty much said that it was cut and dry, 17% that would be the state mandate.

As stated before, I'm positive that his mother has done this. Driven a wedge between us. Has said things like "He can stay at my house any time he wants." Also, "why won't your father just let you stay, any other father would let you stay"

Then my daughter was caught flat out lying to her about the conditions at the new house. She told her mother that we were interrogating her about her call with her mother one night, until she broke down and had to confess what had happened. The real story... she got a call from her mother, she was crying soon thereafter. We went up into her room to see what was going on, and she told us, immediately, her mother was mad because she hadn't called for 24 hours or so. She was having a sleepover, and had forgotten about her phone. There were three other adults my x could have called, but decided to lay it all on my daughter. So she lied to her mother. I made her tell her mother the truth the day after, and my x said that I forced my daughter to lie to HER about the story. I wish I had never married this wench.

Since then, I have had a talk with my daughter. Just follow the schedule and everyone will be happy, is what I said. You don't have to make a choice, because the choice has been made already for you when we got divorced. You don't need to tell your mother that you like being here, just don't lie and say that it's awful. She LOVES coming to the house, btw. But the first day is always tough, she doesn't get enough sleep at her mother's.


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## Carlton1

Anyway, some good news. Son will be spending the weekend here. A few friends of mine are going to the shooting range, he was all about that, big time. Yes, I failed him thus far in not ever having him shoot a real gun up to this point. I've been shooting since five. We live in an suburban area now, just getting up and plinking some cans or blowing apart a melon in the back yard isn't exactly legal. But I did teach all of our kids gun safety and how to shoot with the pellet gun, and let them see my real guns from time to time when they ask.

IMMEDIATELY, after I invited him, I got a text from my x asking all types of questions. I mean within like 30 seconds, HA!

Apparently, these guys go every weekend, and have extended a perpetual invitation to me and my son


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## Openminded

Children often feel they have to lie about conditions at the “other” home in order to keep the peace — especially when one parent is jealous and volatile and territorial. The good news is that your children eventually will age out of the custody order and one day be on their own. The bad news is that things could be off balance until that time comes. Never underestimate the power a toxic parent has over children.


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## TomNebraska

Carlton1 said:


> I saved all of the text messages. Screenshots and all.
> 
> I even have a picture of him having a beer that SHE sent me... not sure if that will have any impact or not.


Think all this through, and imagine explaining it to the court. Your explanation must be logically based on the evidence you can show the court (you will have to pay a third party to authenticate text messages and pictures to enable them to be admitted). 

I'm in a similar position now. I have some texts and I have some messages on Our Family Wizard (not sure if you use that; the court can order it where I live). My story aligns with what she said and told me, because I'm not a liar, and I have the messages to back it up. I am sure she will dispute this, but I need to stick to my guns and have conviction in it, and fight for it. 

I can't control what the court will do, but I can make my argument forcefully, and back it up. She can't.


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## TomNebraska

Carlton1 said:


> Anyway, some good news. Son will be spending the weekend here. A few friends of mine are going to the shooting range, he was all about that, big time. Yes, I failed him thus far in not ever having him shoot a real gun up to this point. I've been shooting since five. We live in an suburban area now, just getting up and plinking some cans or blowing apart a melon in the back yard isn't exactly legal. But I did teach all of our kids gun safety and how to shoot with the pellet gun, and let them see my real guns from time to time when they ask.
> 
> IMMEDIATELY, after I invited him, I got a text from my x asking all types of questions. I mean within like 30 seconds, HA!
> 
> Apparently, these guys go every weekend, and have extended a perpetual invitation to me and my son


I think this is all good under normal circumstances, but if you're in the middle of a fight with your XW, I would hold off on any activities that she can go to court and squawk about. 

You can of course explain you're careful, explained gun safety to him, etc., and it's safe, but now you're wasting the court's time over this crap, instead of making your case.


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## Carlton1

TomNebraska said:


> I think this is all good under normal circumstances, but if you're in the middle of a fight with your XW, I would hold off on any activities that she can go to court and squawk about.
> 
> You can of course explain you're careful, explained gun safety to him, etc., and it's safe, but now you're wasting the court's time over this crap, instead of making your case.


Maybe you are right. I will say it is a NYS public range with all the state safety officers and such. You have to be twelve to go. One round at a time. It's a little lame, but safe, and state approved.

But, the one thing that it is doing, it's getting his butt over here. He's been cancelling out on me for months. Finally, I have something to get his interest. If he really takes to it, this might just be the thing that returns us to the status quo. Then, she'll have no leg to stand on. Or, at least I hope so.

I love my son very much, and it makes me sad that he doesn't come more often. Choosing to be alone, rather than with me. And, she allows it.


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## nypsychnurse

I live in NYS...Child Support Laws mandate 17% for 1 child, 23% for 2 children and so on...
Your situation is a bit complicated since you still have 50/50 with 1 child.

Have you tried talking to your ex? Find out what it is that she wants...If it's just more $$...maybe you both can agree to a little more and avoid Court/Lawyers altogether?
Your son is at an age where he will change his mind frequently...you can't Make him visit, but better quality time with Dad will certainly be more appealing than Family time with the New wife and step kids.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## Carlton1

She has said we can avoid it all if we can come to a consensus. Extortion really. Not sure why he/she gets to change custody because they feel like it. I may just gave to use this option.

Anyway, the gun range was excellent. He did ask to go back to her house early. He lied to me and said that his mother would be home. She didn't show until the next day. He didnt get to go there, I said no.

I really don't know what is going on. His sence of entitlement is incredible in all of this. I'm not sure it's her turning him against me or him just being a jerk. She certainly is making it appealing for him to want to stay with her.

One side of me just wants to say screw it and let him fall on his face when he aligns with her, but the other side of me wants him to pull his head out and just follow the damn schedule.


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## Carlton1

Also, my present wife and I talked to him. She said she would go away with her kids on certain days if he wanted to spend time with just me.

That talk seems to have had no effect. He cancelled on me for tonight...again.


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