# Reaching my limit?



## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

Three months of waiting for her to put aside her EA, decide if she wants to work on our marriage, even talk to me about the problems we had. She reaches out maybe once a month, indicating that she might not want me gone, then retreats back into herself as if loving me would be some kind of betrayal to herself. Then I get days of silence or even hostility. I begin to hope that we'll reconcile only to be pushed back to arm's length or further.

All too often I don't hear from her all day, or we communicate the little things like kids doctors appointments by email alone. After the kids go to bed she runs into the attic bedroom and stays online all night. She's in the same house and I'm still painfully lonely.

I'm beginning to have the kinds of thoughts that I was so sure I never would. That is, maybe we should break up for good just to bring an end to the pain and move on. Even though that seems like it would be only marginally less painful. 

How's everyone else dealing with it?


----------



## Willow (Jun 17, 2010)

There's alot of parallels in my life with yours. H's behaviours towards me are very similar except he still wants sex (but almost without intimacy if that makes sense, quite violent and without connecting, in silence, as if he is doing it in spite of himself) and while he is a textbook case for an EA I have no evidence of it, there may have been a one night stand but he says he was too drunk to know for sure even though the other woman alleges they did. 

Our communication is little and around the kids, he makes it clear his feelings towards me range from disdain to contempt with few variances inbetween. 

Not wanting to turn your thread into one about me, just want to frame the context of the reply. I am turning my focus to me. I have done the crying and am ashamed to say I have done the begging and pleading too. But that's now stopped. This is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life and there are days I think I cannot face getting out of bed, but I do. And I accomplish things. I spend time with the kids, with our family. Few friends here but I catch up with those I have too. I am slowly editing him out of my life - now that may not mean competely, but he has lost his right to be such a key player in it. I cannot lie, I still love him but I will not let him destroy me. 

I posted a while back that I needed to get on ebay and buy a backbone, and a thicker skin. I think they arrived, it'll take me a while to get used to them, seems like I've spent too long without them.


----------



## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

Hi Willow. I totally understand where you are, yes. We fell apart as a couple in part because my poor self-image sapped any attraction she had for me. I've been doing that work for me the last few months and hoping that it would result in regaining her interest. Like I said, there are moments where it seems that she's interested, but she quickly pulls back. That's the most frustrating of all.

I also keep going on with my days - tackling issues that I've put off for months, doing the housework, caring for the kids, going to work. I'm feeling pretty happy with myself as a person these days. Each day though, I pick up more and she seems to drop further away. In my case, being apart is the last thing I want. Until yesterday I believed that I could work through the pain and she would probably decide to return to the marriage. We've set a time limit, it's still weeks off. If I make it all the way to the end and she chooses to break for good, I wonder how I will feel.

Stay strong. Keep posting. Thanks for commiserating.


----------



## Willow (Jun 17, 2010)

Seems like we have alot in common. I got lost while supporting H and the family, the me bit disappeared. For a while it suited him, I was less hassle that way. Now I seem to be not worth any effort at all. 

I agree I would do anything to make this work, but he will not concede, talk about what it is that is wrong let alone trying to fix it together. At times I wonder if he is just trying to force me out, it would lessen his Catholic guilt if I was the one who walked. Yet other times about many things he wants to discuss things that are going on externally, with work, situations (hell when the supposed PA woman was hassling him it was me he talked it through with) and I find those times most painful of all because the strong spark of friendship and understanding we had for many years reappears only for him to switch it off as fast as it came. 

I hope that the fact that you still see 'glimpses' of what you had, the wife you knew, are the first signs of a new Spring for you and you come out of this with a marriage that is stronger than ever. Meanwhile stay strong and focussed. Oh and of course come here to vent!!


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Rob, what happens when you tell her how you feel about all this?


----------



## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

Hi Turnera-

Generally when I bring up the subject, she tells me she doesn't feel any differently than before - that we're over. When we've gotten into deeper discussion about it, she often says it would be easy if she could just decide to stay together, but she doesn't think she can. Or that she does not want to put forth the effort to make it work (or maybe she fears that effort?) Generally these discussions leave me with the impression that she's of two minds, so that, as long as I continue to rebuild myself as a person, be a friend to her, and don't push too hard, she might decide to rebuild our marriage after all when our time limit expires. I don't expect her to make a decision prior to the end of this period - what she has now is reasonably comfortable. She can enjoy a feeling of freedom, have her online community and communicate with the online OM (though she's told me that relationship is over) and I'm still handy for support when needed. As others have said, this is fine for a short period. Once the time has elapsed, and she has to decide between her sort-of freedom and her real husband, I think "we" have a chance. 

Some days, though, like yesterday, leave me feeling like she's just delaying a bad decision she's already made. If so, I'm just inviting more pain by waiting and having hope, you know?

Willow, like you I thought I would do almost anything to make it work. I'm finally discovering that even "anything" has its limits. Easily said - I still love her like no one else in the world.


----------



## Willow (Jun 17, 2010)

Rob, what is the timescale you are working on?

If the thought of the effort to 'fix' it is too overwhelming for her, would breaking it down into smaller steps be a way of moving forward, maybe shifting the focus to enjoying time together without expectation of a 'greater' goal? 

I completely emphasise on the pain of waiting / having hope. I find the most difficult times are where there is a glimmer of hope with my H, because so many times recently he has snatched that away again.


----------



## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

Hi Willow. I see we're both up late tonight.

About the only smaller step I see is this: we need to be friends again, something we've really stopped being in the past few months. If we rebuild our friendship, this can be a comfortable platform upon which to decide if stronger feelings remain or can regrow. And frankly, even if we do split up for real, we need to remain friends or the long term damage for the kids (of quarreling divorced parents) will be huge. So that's where I'm putting my efforts today.

And I don't see any way to do this that wouldn't be small steps. Even under the best conditions I wouldn't see healing our relationship to take less than a year, and probably several months before we approached a physical relationship as even a part of that. 

Our timeline is from now to September. By then we decide if we're going to work on the marriage or work to end it. I think the implied time is around the time the school year begins, second week. That's about 6 weeks from now. We decided this in early June so this is really the halfway point. Wow, I'm only HALFWAY through this crap? And this is only the first phase of it, either way there's months of uncomfortable effort and pain and work on the other side of that date. This is gonna be a real banner year in my life, that's for sure.


----------



## Willow (Jun 17, 2010)

Ha Rob I'm actually posting from the future so I'm not up late! Its early Friday morning here! 

I think your view on friendship is both wise and critical for your kids. I know that's what's stopped me throwing any major tantrums earlier on in all this which with hindsight would have caused permanent damage. It also sounds like not only do you without doubt love your wife but you like her too so there is already a base to work from. 

I feel the same about things here, it didn't get broken overnight, it sure as hell won't get fixed overnight. 
And 2010 definitely ranks high for me as one of the worst!


----------



## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Rob :

You sound tired, You need to work really hard to get you wife to break the EA (even if this is now in her mind), a timeline gives her a target to drag this over the line and she will, it takes ages to break out of EA. 

You need to hold the line on this, when she has zero contact for a long time and weeded the OM out of her system only then will she be able to make rational decisions.

Remove the time barrier, make it clear the EA needs to finish in her heart, the kids and family come first then you can rebuild your marriage. A year is nothing to remove these feelings. 

It is worth it, she will only recognise this once she is out of the mire.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So you aren't doing anything active to stop her EA?


----------



## fiona (Jul 23, 2010)

It sounds messy, I hope that you can find some peace, although it does sound like you might be flogging a dead horse, please excuse the expression. A committed relationship is one where the spouse does not discard you because you have slipped physically, but instead helps you to become healthier and in turn happier together. I wish you well.


----------



## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

Hello all:

Breaking the EA is a big deal to me, but isn't something I can force. I'm doing what I can in that regard and this time limit is part of it. Some of this is in my other threads, so let me sum up:

My wife is an online gamer. She got into WoW last fall, probably in part because of our growing issues at home. When she called for a break from our romantic relationship this spring she got into an EA with another member of her guild. This is a difficult one for someone on the outside to break - he's only as real as the face he shows her over chat or what have you, plus they interact in a fantasy game to begin with. Nevertheless she called me a few weeks ago on one of our off weekends and told me that she and he seemed to have broken off and was upset (that's another thread in coping w/infidelity) I've discussed my possible actions with our marriage counselor at length and he strongly recommended against exposure or other heavy-handed steps, and feels that if she says the relationship is over, she's not the type to lie about it. We continue to go to counseling and have some friendly, some not-friendly days. Today's a better one and it feels like she's moving emotionally in the right direction in her feelings toward me.

So what I am doing to bring her EA to a close? What can I do to change her emotions for this guy? Not much, I need to make myself into the person she can love again. I'm doing my very best not to throw a lot of petty jealousy at her, and doing everything I can to be myself and be the best I can be at it. Also, i need to be her friend. She needs emotional support from her friends and, ultimately, lover, so that must be the first item on the menu. And I'm filling the needed role of husband in the day-to-day life. That means taking care of the kids, the house, supporting her as she needs, and so on. It's a long list for someone who is not receiving love or support in return, but then, that's the point of making a time limit in the first place.

If we get to the end of our time and she asks for some halfway measure, as I expect she might, then we could negotiate what's next. My opinion now is that, if we move forward in any capacity under the same roof after that point, it should be without contact with the OM and without the game. She's deep in the game and the guild, so that's gonna be a tough one for her to choose. If she can't then I need to be ready for her to move out. She throws that out from time to time - I assume to scare me - but I think it would frighten her more. If I'm ready for her (not me) to leave our home she might think differently about the value of game over marriage.

So to sum up - not doing nothing, just following the plan right now, which involves non-interference and building self confidence. And boy howdy I am tired Wisp, thanks for noticing.


----------



## Willow (Jun 17, 2010)

This online gaming stuff is quite scary isn't it. I guess in essence you not only need her to reconnect to you and your marriage, but you also need her to be grounded back into reality. I think it seems sensible that if you are negotiating a way forward it has to be an issue.

For the moment I think your strategy on giving it time is sound. As long as you can continue on this without the pressure becoming too much. Also its clear that you have looked at your options head on, not only hoping for the best but staring right at the very worst. That critical point- although immensely painful- was the start of a degree of healing for me, I hope it has been for you too.

Live in the moment as much as you can , smell the roses, coffee, whatever else comes to hand , enjoy your kids. 

Hope you're managing to get some decent rest.


----------



## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

Willow-

You hit the nail on the head - it is scary. She's detached from real life in a lot of ways - probably because she got so much happiness from the fantasy life compared with the pain and hurt of addressing the real life with me.

We didn't get into this mess because of Warcraft, but I don't see any way out of it if she's playing either. I'll be realistic - asking her to never play warcraft again at this point is a little too strong, but if we're going to continue to live together, and ESPECIALLY if we're going to work on our marriage, she needs to take a whale of a sabbatical, and never play again in her present guild.

Don't worry about my sleep. I had an epiphany a couple of weeks ago - thanks in no small part to the advice and support from this forum - and I set my priorities properly. From that night on I slept soundly every night, knowing that I was doing something every day to make it better.


----------



## fairy godmother (Jun 10, 2010)

Rob, 

My H and I play WoW too. I get upset when he communicates frequently with another female member. They text on occasion but I kinda know her and he tries to include me in almost all the conversations etc... But any texting makes me uneasy. Anyways, I completely understand how she's obsessed and sucked in by the game. I can get so sucked it that I'm irritable when it comes time to do something else. In my old guild, there was an online couple, both were married and lived in different states, but the man's wife told him to end it or she's leaving. Apparently he couldn't quit so she left and the two are still playing WoW online together (rolling my eyes.) You're defiantly not alone. Man, she needs to take a break and get a glimpse of reality without the game.


----------



## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

Fairy-

I used to really love video games - at times I still do. But I never got into the giant online games for some reason. Plus my outlook has soured the last couple of years, as my wife's computer/game addiction has rubbed off on our son. Now I'm in an awful position of wanting to be loving to my family, but keep getting snagged on the poor time decisions they are making - or that she is helping him to make. This leads to fighting or bickering, which helps no one. I suppose I need to remind myself to choose the unsavory position of allowing something destructive to continue in the hopes that I can improve my relationship with my wife in other areas, and then address this more difficult issue together.


----------



## ADM (Apr 12, 2010)

Robrobb, have you started doing things for your own? Why not make her wonder ...like going out and not telling her...will she notice that? Jealousy makes miracles!


----------



## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

ADM said:


> Robrobb, have you started doing things for your own? Why not make her wonder ...like going out and not telling her...will she notice that? Jealousy makes miracles!


Ugh, do I really need to find reasons for more strife? I started to say that of course she would notice, but I'm not sure that she would unless one of the children came looking for me and wound up bawling to her. This happened one night about a month ago - but let's skip the story.

On the other hand....So far the most rewarding thing I do for myself is if I can get an early kayak ride on the lake. Maybe I'll bolt early before work tomorrow and let her deal with breakfast.

And as an FYI, I totally blew my plan from this morning. Had a big blowup over video game time and the children, leading her to declare that she would move out. She's been silent about that since. I don't know if this was to scare me or actually her making a decision for herself. We'll see.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

To scare you and get you to 'get off her case.'


----------



## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

turnera said:


> To scare you and get you to 'get off her case.'


Well, obviously. Moments ago she came into the kitchen where I'm writing cover letters (job search, ugh) and I told her that if that was her decision I would respect it, but that she should know that I'd intended to let back off on my fighting over video games and let things slide more, with the aim of fewr family conflicts, at least until she and I knew what we were doing. I apologized for not meeting that goal. unsaid was the message that it would be a mistake for her to move out; I think we both think that's true. Her response was a sleepy "okay" and she walked out onto the porch to test the night air.

Stay tuned, there may be more on this....


----------



## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Rob there are lots of posts going on but...you need to start taking the initiative to sort this out. Find Plan A and B either on this site or marriagebuilders.com and fix your marriage. Are you working on a known proven plan or do you have your own, no disrespect here but the A and B plans are there for a reason. . 

Your wife holds the top position and unless you do something she has no reason to change, do not always assume that the entire fault lays with you. Frankly she does not care about you. 

There is a consistent message for you … Stop the affair then sort out the marriage.

Her EA has not stopped you are the nice guy and she will carry on because you appear to her to roll over and smile even though you are bleeding inside. 

Assume your marriage is over for now, motivate yourself and get it back.


----------



## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

Wisp said:


> Rob there are lots of posts going on but...you need to start taking the initiative to sort this out. Find Plan A and B either on this site or marriagebuilders.com and fix your marriage. Are you working on a known proven plan or do you have your own, no disrespect here but the A and B plans are there for a reason. .
> 
> Your wife holds the top position and unless you do something she has no reason to change, do not always assume that the entire fault lays with you. Frankly she does not care about you.


Wisp-

I am working along a plan. I went to our marriage counselor with a PLan A outline and we discussed it (this is in another thread somewhere). In short, because she says that their active relationship is over, and he believes her, there's little to be gained and much to be lost by going the exposure route at this point. She claims he's lost interest in her, so at least some of her mood recently can be attributed to grief over the loss of that relationship. I believe they still play the game together, so you can't really consider the EA over, since she almost certainly holds some hope that they will rekindle. My best course of action is to take control of the marriage, be kind and supportive, and work from a place in which I'm myself rather than the damaged husband. (Give her a reason to choose our marriage) This is something that's been going on reasonably well, although I began this post on a day in which I'd slipped back to damaged husband in a big way. She's been told that the affair needs to end and that a true ending means a permanent lack of contact. We have our time limit, after which she chooses either to work on our marriage or end it. If she chooses to end it, then it's plan B (sort of). Move her out. Make it clear that she can leave any time, but that I will not leave my home or family, and that I choose not to leave my marriage. I expect her to resist. If she decides to stay it's under conditions which exclude EA and game. Each step is being undertaken with the advice of our therapist. 

And you should know that I have made a lot of progress on myself these last few months. I expect to stick with personal therapy until it's run its course. I no longer fear divorce, though I certainly don't want to go there, and know that I'll be able to move on if it comes to that. 

So maybe not quite the plan you were looking for, but a plan suitable for us.


----------



## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Your post is noted…(no offence to you intended)

I guess what I am picking up is your wife is not stopping the contact and is not taking you seriously enough. I personally and it is my view only I would still expose her regardless; you have everything to gain and nothing to loose. It makes her life less comfortable when mom or friends call and focuses the mind. 

Perhaps the extract below is true but as there is still ongoing contact…..

“She claims he's lost interest in her, so at least some of her mood recently can be attributed to grief over the loss of that relationship”..

Look after yourself. Best wishes..Stay on the course you have set out


----------



## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

Wisp-

I struggled with exposure for quite a while. I WANTED to do it, but my motivation was very much selfish revenge, and every indication was that the relationship was limited (since it was online only) and could never be genuinely satisfying for either party in the long term. Plus, our counselor could not have been more against the idea. So far the patience thing is playing out as hoped - you would expect her to keep playing the game with him even if he's lost interest. Bit by bit there is more positive interaction between she and I, though it varies, some days good, some very icy. Now if I can continue to be patient and strong, let her see that there's an desirable lover right here in her midst, but that the clock is ticking, perhaps the next part comes along as planned too. 

Also, she's told some friends about OM, don't know what kind of picture she painted, but she hinted to me that there was at least some disapproval.


----------

