# My wife is chatting with her ex/NISA



## natsanjose (Mar 25, 2017)

*My wife is chatting with her ex/KISA*

I really didn't know where to put this so if I am in the wrong category, please move it. 

I am a 35 year old man and my wife is 29. We have been together for 10 years, married for 3. We have a child, who is 7. In the first half of our relationship my wife was the one pushing to get married (or engaged). When I finally "maned" up and got serious about it she went the opposite direction and start stalling. Stopped talking about marriage, came up with reasons to wait. I felt like I had waited to long, which still could be true, but I wonder if someone else caused her hesitation. During our relationship there wasn't a lot of red flags. 

My wife was raped when she was 14 years old. Brutally, terribly, by a gang and she nearly died. During that time she had very close friend who she had known most of her life. He was with her all the time for 4 years. The ended up in a "relationship" for part of that time. I put relationship in quotes because there was no physical intimacy and she barely calls it a relationship in hindsight. The guy enlisted in the military and moved, ended up across the country. They kept in contact, she said not much. Later she moved to the same province, in the closest major city to his base (8 hours away). She said she saw him once or twice, because his brother lived in her city. 

I have come to find out that they have been in contact a lot. A lot of late night chats, random texting. She has never hid it, really. But has never been upfront about it either. She doesn't seem to hide it, she leaves her phone unlocked and I can easily see what is being said. When she is having a hard day or something is bother her, she tells him. Even if I did something to bother her or trigger her, she tells him. A lot of it I have never heard her say. She seems more comfortable with him than me. We went through a period were she told me everything about her past/rape. She always felt that if I found out x, y, z detail it would be too much and I'd leave. I didn't want to know, but she needed me to. Over the course of months she spewed out random info until I knew it all and we never talked about it again. With him, she is talking about it. Like if I do something that triggers her she will tell HIM, as well as tell him what I did to trigger and and what exactly it triggered. For example, the most recent thing I saw was that it bothers her when I pee in front of her. She sees me pee almost daily, for 7-8 years, and has never said a word. But she told him that it bothers her because she was pissed on. She's just gotten good at hiding her feelings. 

They talk about a lot of other random stuff, not just him being her personal therapist. I'd probably say it's 80% other stuff, 20% her/their past. I have never seen her talk to him about our separate marriage issues. If I do something to trigger her, she will tell him that. But if we're just having an issue separate from her rape, I haven't see her tell him that.

Part of it stems from jealousy, and that is making me not know if I'm am in the wrong or not. He knows her in a way that I never will. There is this whole side to her that I 'know of' but he really, truly knows. He was her rock, her KISA. He got her through everything. He even sat through the trial with her. He was allowed to sit right beside her while she testified, holding her hand. She still leans on him about her past. I'm not an ugly guy, but he is a hell of a lot more attractive and fit than I am. And I hate to say it, but as far as I know he's a really good guy. I have met his brothers and one is a douche but the other is great as well, and she is also close with him (though not to this level). 

She has always had this weird 'thing' for army/military guys/people. We live close to a base (not his) and frequently see military personnel, she just stares at them all the time, acts a bit odd and volunteers on base as much as she can. She won't/can't watch military movies with dudes getting themselves blowup/shot, it really bothers her. This guy as been overseas. She always wants to go to military related events open to the public. We went to a vehicle show for our son, they had a hundred of different vehicles but she hovered around the army tank. This guy is an armoured soldier. 

He lives 6 hours away, the texts haven't really ever gone sexual (reminiscing really). They have video chatted, though I don't know how much or what was done on that. To my knowledge she hasn't seen him in the last 8 years. Am I being paranoid? Just a jealous husband? I haven't brought this up with her yet. If something is up, i don't want her to get scared and start hiding things.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Not normal. It's an emotional affair. Read up. An X in the middle of a marriage is trouble brewing.

The more time she spends with him the more detached she'll become.

You can't stop her from doing what she wants but you don't have to remain a part of it.

Better set some boundaries and stick to them. If not his will get worse not better.

You need to be spending some quality time Together. Do you have date nights? You'll need @ 15 hours a week, etc. doesn't have to expensive. Dinner and a movie, etc.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Also, join a gym start working out. Update your wardrobe, keep your haircut, improve yourself. Don't allow yourself getting sloppy or stale.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

She went through a traumatic experience.

Start there.

What happened was before you. I would be a bit remiss to say they shared an experience as sure as your wife wished something like that would never have happened to her but it did and he happened to be there.

He doesn't sound like an ******* but it does sound like she feels comfortable unloading on him rather than to you and you're jealous.

*He knows her in a way that I never will. *

I'm sure he would have loved a more happier circumstance to meet a girl rather than what happened.

It's striking how this starts off as the guy that helped my wife then gradually morphs into he's better looking than me etc etc.

Listen man, you and your wife have a lot to talk about specifically opening up the lines of communication more. The peeing thing she should have been up front with her reason, she shouldn't have to go behind your back or you find out from snooping or badgering.

In a sense it's good she has someone like that to get her issues out into the open with but maybe you two should be doing it together in front of a counsellor?


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## natsanjose (Mar 25, 2017)

Marc878 said:


> Not normal. It's an emotional affair. Read up. An X in the middle of a marriage is trouble brewing.
> 
> The more time she spends with him the more detached she'll become.
> 
> ...


I read about emotional affairs and some of the signs are there. She isn't secretive with her phone really. If I ask to use it she will let me but takes a second to give it to me usually. Same with her laptop. If I want to use it and and it's in another part of the house, she always goes and gets it and takes a minute. She isn't deleting their conversations, they go back a long ways. But she could be deleting certain messages or history. Of course the opposite is possible, she isn't hiding anything and takes a minute to give it to me because she is legitimately doing/reading something. 

Our intimacy has taken a pretty big hit. When she was pushing for marriage, the first half of our relationship, things were great. Then they dipped and it felt like we were roommates. No kissing, no cuddling, no dates, limited sex, fights. We had some issues that caused that, mostly my fault. This may have started way back then. It's also when she totally stopped pushing for marriage and when I brought it up either stalled or straight up said she didn't want to (yet). Things eventually got back on track, and we married. Things were good for a bit. A year into our marriage we had another issue and our marriage went into the dumps. We've been working on it since, it's a lot better but not were it use to be. I don't know if my behaviour is to blame, hers, or both. 

When we kiss she tends to pull away, she says it's because my facial hair irritates her skin (wasn't an issue before). When we have sex she participates but her face screams that she doesn't want to be there. Whether that's her past or this guy causing it, I don't know. She has told the other guy that it would be easier to have had sex with him than me. We rarely go on dates, our schedules conflict a lot with me working nights and weekends. She wants to. 

So I need to tell her that she needs to stop contacting him? It's what I, or the jealous side of me, wants but at the same time I feel guilty for forcing someone out of her life who helps her. She is in therapy as well.


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## natsanjose (Mar 25, 2017)

Marc878 said:


> Also, join a gym start working out. Update your wardrobe, keep your haircut, improve yourself. Don't allow yourself getting sloppy or stale.


This is something that I need to work on. My wife is very fit, works out 5 days a week, runs 25 miles a week. She gets a lot of attention from men. Interestingly, she didn't start working out until we hit our rough patch 5 years ago. Then went from never running or working out to doing it 5x a week and going from about 140 lbs to 110 lbs. Doing workouts that are considered military type workouts. She pushed herself to the max to make that huge transition in about 3 months. 

I on the other hand, not so much. I weight about 40-50 lbs more than I should. Hesitate on buying new clothes because "I'm going to lose the weight" but never do. She tries to encourage me to exercise with her, eat better with her. Not taking care of that is my fault.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

natsanjose said:


> She has told the other guy that it would be easier to have had sex with him than me.


Seems a bit weird you would leave that out..

I'm out.


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## natsanjose (Mar 25, 2017)

BobSimmons said:


> She went through a traumatic experience.
> 
> Start there.
> 
> ...


In their messages (which I do feel bad reading) they BOTH said how they wished things would have gone differently. Wished they would have had better circumstances for a relationship. She was a virgin when she was raped and (to my knowledge) I'm the only person she has had sex with since. So technically her only partner. She told him she wished they would have had sex and that he would have been her first. We didn't have sex until about 2 years into the relationship. He has stopped talking to her a few times during our relationship/marriage because "it was too hard". She stopped talking to him a few times because "she had to for our marriage". He's single, never married. Going back far enough in her messages I saw that she stopped talking to him when he got into a relationship. 

I make the attractive comment because during my wife and I's relationship she frequently made comments about not liking the totally ripped men or "pretty boys". He is both. She played the part well. I guess she gave that act up because now she drools over them. I'm guessing it was to cover up that she liked him and/or to make me feel better about not meeting that criteria. 

We have been through quite a bit of marriage counselling. Still go sometimes. This is something that should be brought up but I don't want to tell her that I've been snooping. We do need to open up the communication though. She should be able to tell me if something is bothering her, especially if it's something that I'm doing daily. Even if I straight out ask her if something bothers her she says no, while her face says yes.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

natsanjose said:


> I read about emotional affairs and some of the signs are there. She isn't secretive with her phone really. If I ask to use it she will let me but takes a second to give it to me usually. Same with her laptop. If I want to use it and and it's in another part of the house, she always goes and gets it and takes a minute. She isn't deleting their conversations, they go back a long ways. But she could be deleting certain messages or history. Of course the opposite is possible, she isn't hiding anything and takes a minute to give it to me because she is legitimately doing/reading something.
> 
> Our intimacy has taken a pretty big hit. When she was pushing for marriage, the first half of our relationship, things were great. Then they dipped and it felt like we were roommates. No kissing, no cuddling, no dates, limited sex, fights. We had some issues that caused that, mostly my fault. This may have started way back then. It's also when she totally stopped pushing for marriage and when I brought it up either stalled or straight up said she didn't want to (yet). Things eventually got back on track, and we married. Things were good for a bit. A year into our marriage we had another issue and our marriage went into the dumps. We've been working on it since, it's a lot better but not were it use to be. I don't know if my behaviour is to blame, hers, or both.
> 
> ...


Ignorance is bliss until it isn't. Guilty for not wanting an x in your marriage?

You are a pushover and will lose all respect by allowing this. You can't make her stop but you'd better have the wherewithal to take yourself out of the equation. If not she'll just dump you anyway when the time comes.


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## natsanjose (Mar 25, 2017)

BobSimmons said:


> Seems a bit weird you would leave that out..
> 
> I'm out.


That is part of what I meant when I said, "the texts haven't really ever gone sexual (reminiscing really)" in my first post. I was unsure how many details to leave in and leave out, without writing a novel.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

natsanjose said:


> This is something that I need to work on. My wife is very fit, works out 5 days a week, runs 25 miles a week. She gets a lot of attention from men. Interestingly, she didn't start working out until we hit our rough patch 5 years ago. Then went from never running or working out to doing it 5x a week and going from about 140 lbs to 110 lbs. Doing workouts that are considered military type workouts. She pushed herself to the max to make that huge transition in about 3 months.
> 
> I on the other hand, not so much. I weight about 40-50 lbs more than I should. Hesitate on buying new clothes because "I'm going to lose the weight" but never do. She tries to encourage me to exercise with her, eat better with her. Not taking care of that is my fault.


Better get moving and quit making excuses. You are going to get replaced if you haven't already.


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## natsanjose (Mar 25, 2017)

Marc878 said:


> Ignorance is bliss until it isn't. Guilty for not wanting an x in your marriage?
> 
> You are a pushover and will lose all respect by allowing this. You can't make her stop but you'd better have the wherewithal to take yourself out of the equation. If not she'll just dump you anyway when the time comes.


My hesitation comes from the hurt that I have caused my wife from my own actions. In the sense of, "I've already hurt her this much, do I really want to hurt her more by ripping away the one person who has always been there for her. Who was there for her when I wasn't, but should have been." I know first hand that ex's can be troublesome in a marriage/relationship. I just need to nip it in the bud.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

natsanjose said:


> My hesitation comes from the hurt that I have caused my wife from my own actions. In the sense of, "I've already hurt her this much, do I really want to hurt her more by ripping away the one person who has always been there for her. Who was there for her when I wasn't, but should have been." I know first hand that ex's can be troublesome in a marriage/relationship. I just need to nip it in the bud.


You own your part in the marriage for sure but make no mistake there is never an excuse for an affair. Your wife isn't perfect either but did you go out and bring another woman into your marriage.

You've got the Mr Nice guy syndrome which will get you walked on and zero respect. That and letting yourself go is probably why you are where you are.

You'd better wake up.

Youre just making excuses hoping it'll all just go away and you won have to do anything. It won't 

Read it and apply it to your life
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrB..._Guy.pdf/RK=0/RS=cYc.MABYehYARfyINnP1YlrN5GI-


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

The texts are just nice so far...
By the time they get sexual, you have already lost.
Nip it in the bud. If she gets defensive, make sure you have at the ready a good description of an emotional affair. From my reading, most involved in emotional affairs do not understand that IT IS AN AFFAIR. It is a betrayal, a breach of trust and completely disrespectful. That has to be made clear to her, if she is unhappy, let her know that she is welcome to walk straight over to her friend. Let him be blessed with a cheating spouse.

You appear to be frightened of confronting this. You say that you would be taking a dear friend from her. I disagree, you are removing an impediment to your marriage. There cannot be three people in your bed. If she is emotionally dependent on him, then you have already lost her.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Marc878 said:


> You own your part in the marriage for sure but make no mistake there is never an excuse for an affair. Your wife isn't perfect either but did you go out and bring another woman into your marriage.
> 
> You've got the Mr Nice guy syndrome which will get you walked on and zero respect. That and letting yourself go is probably why you are where you are.
> 
> ...


OP,

You better read the above. This thing with her ex is NOT normal NOR acceptable. And in case you have not figured it out, six hours is not another continent so i would not bet your 401K with this kind of texting going on that she has not seen him in eight years. As a matter of fact, I WOULD bet money that she would refuse to take a polygraph test to validate that statement.

Time for you to stop playing ostrich.


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## rzmpf (Mar 11, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> You are going to get replaced if you haven't already.


Seems more like she settled for him because she could not have this other guy and OP never or only a short amount of time had the pole position in her heart.

She sounds just like another case of someone that desperately needs therapy to help her sort her issues out. Rape as a child, NISA, idolization, triggering etc, that's basically a life-long patient.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

natsanjose said:


> So I need to tell her that she needs to stop contacting him? It's what I, or the jealous side of me, wants but at the same time I feel guilty for forcing someone out of her life who helps her. She is in therapy as well.


It is not being jealous when you are PROTECTING your marriage. Remind me again who is she married to? You or OM? Sorry buddy, but you are not first in he heart. You are nothing more than Plan B because she could not have him. If you do not have kids, I suggest you end this marriage while you can. You deserve to be with someone who will invest *100% emotionally* on you. I know you may feel sorry for her because of what she suffered in the past. But if she won't move on with you, then this marriage is over. It's already more than halfway there.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

natsanjose said:


> My hesitation comes from the hurt that I have caused my wife from my own actions. In the sense of, "I've already hurt her this much, do I really want to hurt her more by ripping away the one person who has always been there for her. Who was there for her when I wasn't, but should have been." I know first hand that ex's can be troublesome in a marriage/relationship. I just need to nip it in the bud.


Rape is awful period. You cannot feel guilt for your actions if YOU DO NOT KNOW the problem you created. Seriously dude, she was raped, not by you, but you are going to shoulder the "hurt" for something you didn't know? Honestly, you know your thinking is wrong. A simple "honey, don't pee in front of me" is much better than you reading texts to find out what problems exist in your marriage. Even worse is finding out she is confiding in a guy she had a previous relationship with. Yes, even if said guy is an old friend who helped her through a traumatic time, it is still wrong. Do you realize how unhealthy of a marriage you have if you two are communicating problems through texts to another guy?

Let that slowly sink in. You two can't communicate with each other, so you do it through an intermediary. 

She needs more counseling and you both need a marriage counselor. Stay this soft and you might end up with the "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" speech.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Gang raped at 14 years old. In a relationship with OM for 4 years after that (18 year old) then he moves away/joins army. You enter her life at 19 yr old. Have a child at around 21 yr, then marry her at around 26 yr even though she has been talking texting OM the entire time and was hesitant to marry you. Been married 3 years and you have seen or heard her say she wishes he had been her first sexual experience after the rape and that it would be easier to have sex with him than you. She is obsessed with all things military and OM is in military. Is this about right?

He is the one that got away. You are the Plan B, the consolation prize she married grudgingly because he was not available but she continues her relationship with him by phone, email, and text. This is much more that a simple friendship and given half a chance she will go with him.

You have to get into some serious MC to save your marriage. Since OM has been her hero and confidant since she was 14 yr old, it may be impossible.

Sorry.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

natsanjose said:


> This is something that I need to work on. *My wife is very fit, works out 5 days a week, runs 25 miles a week. She gets a lot of attention from men.* Interestingly, she didn't start working out until we hit our rough patch 5 years ago. Then went from never running or working out to doing it 5x a week and going from about 140 lbs to 110 lbs. Doing workouts that are considered military type workouts. She pushed herself to the max to make that huge transition in about 3 months.
> 
> I on the other hand, not so much. *I weight about 40-50 lbs more than I should*. Hesitate on buying new clothes because "I'm going to lose the weight" but never do. *She tries to encourage me to exercise with her, eat better with her. *Not taking care of that is my fault.


Dude you need to get your excrement together. You have very fit young wife and you're 50 lbs over weight, dressing drab, and working nights? If she's not already cheating with a guy at the gym, she is very vulnerable to a smooth player swooping in. A fit 29 year old woman wants a strong, confident man to bang her often. But you're wife is disgusted by you.

Get your but into a gym to get into shape. Once you're into shape, I also recommend that you take up a martial art. The confidence you'll gain from being fit and knowing you can defend yourself will boost your confidence.

Also, you need to get another job ASAP. Having a young hot wife at home alone at night then having her see you sleep during the day is KILLING her feelings for you. 

I guarantee you, that if you get in shape, get involved in a vigorous sport, get your clothes, hair, hygiene, ETC on point, and get a day job. Your marriage will turn around and you'll have a wife who's going to enthusiastically offer herself to you.

Go read Married Man Sex Life Primer by Athol Kay. An excellent guide on becoming a better man to improve your marriage. I also recommend that you look up the Starting Strength routine by Mark Rippetoe to guide your workout. 

DO THESE THINGS TODAY.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I have a different take. The others seem to be ignoring these "problems" you say you caused including dating for seven years without proposing. I think you need to take a long look at yourself,do the right things instead of daydreaming about and man up. The way you described it I'm surprised she is still with you. Normally I would say she is in a run of the mill emotional affair. Oddly, the other guy is a cross between a brother and an unrequited love. 

I'm guessing as much as you imply you have let her down, she would choose divorce over unfriending him. She is damaged and from your first sentence I thought that was going to be because she had abuse in her background. This turns out to be much worse except for the sex. Abused women usually associate the man they are married to as an abuser and cut way back on sex. In your case, you say your own behavior has caused her to pull back.

Frankly, since she isn't hiding her communications, I would get a clue, fix myself and use her chats with him as my guide. My guess though is you don't have it in you to be a stand up guy. 

Get the MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER below. You need it badly. She's fit and your fifty pounds over weight. That's her big clue to your character. Btdt


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Yea, @Chaparral raised an excellent point. Why did it take you 7 years to marry her? She's good enough to have a kid with but you hesitated on marriage? She should have been your wife BEFORE your kid was born. 

As soon as she was pregnant and you both decided to have it, your very next action should have been to propose. She had to go through the whole pregnancy and the baby/toddler years as a girlfriend. That was not forgotten. Then years later, you want to make an honest woman of her? Not surprised that she was luke warm. Especially if her "friend" is possibly telling her "
if you were having my baby, I would've married you."

But there is nothing you can do about the past. You can only move forward. Get your stuff together ASAP. Your marriage is in trouble. To be honest, there could be a local guy that she's talking to. You're so focused on this guy that you're letting your guard down on a local guy. Especially someone at the gym.

I repeat. MOVE with some urgency. Get your sh.. together.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Honestly, you know your thinking is wrong. A simple "honey, don't pee in front of me" is much better than you reading texts to find out what problems exist in your marriage. Even worse is finding out she is confiding in a guy she had a previous relationship with. Yes, even if said guy is an old friend who helped her through a traumatic time, it is still wrong. Do you realize how unhealthy of a marriage you have if you two are communicating problems through texts to another guy?
> 
> Let that slowly sink in.


 @OP Philly is spot on with the above point, especially where he says "Do you realize how unhealthy of a marriage you have if you two are communicating problems through texts to another guy?" You should read his post a few times so it can sink in.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Chaparral said:


> Normally I would say she is in a run of the mill emotional affair. Oddly, the other guy is a cross between a brother and an unrequited love.


 I usually agree with you Chap, but you are dead wrong saying that there is any brotherly feeling involved between her and the other man (OM). No way she could be telling the OM that she wishes that he was the first person that she had sex with, and that even today sex with the OM would be easier for her than sex with her husband. Sorry that is not how you talk to a brother. No way, no how. This is in fact a full blown emotional affair (EA), where the common run of the mill excuse that the OM is like a brother is being used.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

When I was 14, I got into a relationship, physical and otherwise, with a girl a year older than me who was raped by her father. I was raped and molested as a child and we helped each other and supported each other.

I encouraged and helped her press charges against her dad and get into a better situation.

We are still friends and will always have a connection.

That being said, I married my wife and owe her my loyalty and both physical and emotional fidelity.

Your wife is way out of line and has no reason to cheat emotionally like she is.

She can always have a special connection with him but she better only honor you as husband.

He needs to cut his sh*t out and support your marriage if he is a true friend.

I would talk with both of them separately. I would send him a picture of your daughter and ask him if his intentions towards the little girl's parents was in her best interest?

Tell him to grow the hell up and get his own family while expressing appreciation for how much he helped your wife in her time of need.

You need to have a grown up discussion with your wife as well.


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## natsanjose (Mar 25, 2017)

editing


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I assumed your child was a girl for some reason.

Sorry about that.


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## natsanjose (Mar 25, 2017)

Marc878 said:


> You own your part in the marriage for sure but make no mistake there is never an excuse for an affair. Your wife isn't perfect either but did you go out and bring another woman into your marriage.
> 
> You've got the Mr Nice guy syndrome which will get you walked on and zero respect. That and letting yourself go is probably why you are where you are.
> 
> ...


In 2011-12 and 2015 I cheated on my wife. The first time we were not married, the second time we were. The first affair was with a 'childhood' ex-girlfriend of mine that I dated 20 years ago. I was working with her, due to the nature of our jobs we worked nights alone with each other. She has always had a special place in my heart, was recently broken up with and one thing led to another. It went on for about 6 months before my wife (then girlfriend) found out. I quit that job and stopped talking to her. We started MC. This is why I said I know first hand that ex's can be trouble. In 2015 I had a few ONS. 

Me hurting her goes further than hurting her over issues I was unaware of. I straight up betrayed her, and that may be coming back to bite me in the ass. 

I'll read that, because I get bored at work, but I don't think I'll I'm a nice guy. Just guilty as F and trying to let her get away with whatever she wants to make up for it. 



Taxman said:


> The texts are just nice so far...
> By the time they get sexual, you have already lost.
> Nip it in the bud. If she gets defensive, make sure you have at the ready a good description of an emotional affair. From my reading, most involved in emotional affairs do not understand that IT IS AN AFFAIR. It is a betrayal, a breach of trust and completely disrespectful. That has to be made clear to her, if she is unhappy, let her know that she is welcome to walk straight over to her friend. Let him be blessed with a cheating spouse.
> 
> You appear to be frightened of confronting this. You say that you would be taking a dear friend from her. I disagree, you are removing an impediment to your marriage. There cannot be three people in your bed. If she is emotionally dependent on him, then you have already lost her.


You're right. And they could quickly turn sexual. I have no clue what goes on when they FaceTime. It could be anything from just innocent talking to video sex. I've never seen her FaceTime with him while I'm home, though to be fair she doesn't FaceTime with anyone but family while I'm around. I did some research and it seems that a lot of people in emotional affairs don't realize it's cheating. I'll have to talk to her about it. 



straightshooter said:


> OP,
> 
> You better read the above. This thing with her ex is NOT normal NOR acceptable. And in case you have not figured it out, six hours is not another continent so i would not bet your 401K with this kind of texting going on that she has not seen him in eight years. As a matter of fact, I WOULD bet money that she would refuse to take a polygraph test to validate that statement.
> 
> Time for you to stop playing ostrich.


You are correct, that 6 hours is not an impossible drive. Especially with his brothers living 2 hours away from us, and he'd have to drive through our city on the way. I'd notice if she were gone for 12+ hours, though. Of course he could come down this way and I'd never know. Their messages had a lot of "I wish you lived closer, I miss seeing you" type messages. I do need to talk to her about it. 



rzmpf said:


> Seems more like she settled for him because she could not have this other guy and OP never or only a short amount of time had the pole position in her heart.
> 
> She sounds just like another case of someone that desperately needs therapy to help her sort her issues out. Rape as a child, NISA, idolization, triggering etc, that's basically a life-long patient.


She is in therapy, she has been going for as long as I've known her. She's had brief periods of quitting but always goes back to it. 

The thing that gets me is that there isn't really anything holding her back if she really wants him. Yes we're married but people divorce all the time. She'd be financially fine on her own. We have a child, but you shouldn't stay together for the child. The only thing that I can think of is HE doesn't want HER. If I remember correctly, they were childhood friends, she was raped, they became very close for the next 2 years, then dated for a year, then he broke up with her and they remained very close friends for a year, then he enlisted. 



phillybeffandswiss said:


> Rape is awful period. You cannot feel guilt for your actions if YOU DO NOT KNOW the problem you created. Seriously dude, she was raped, not by you, but you are going to shoulder the "hurt" for something you didn't know? Honestly, you know your thinking is wrong. A simple "honey, don't pee in front of me" is much better than you reading texts to find out what problems exist in your marriage. Even worse is finding out she is confiding in a guy she had a previous relationship with. Yes, even if said guy is an old friend who helped her through a traumatic time, it is still wrong. Do you realize how unhealthy of a marriage you have if you two are communicating problems through texts to another guy?
> 
> Let that slowly sink in. You two can't communicate with each other, so you do it through an intermediary.
> 
> She needs more counseling and you both need a marriage counselor. Stay this soft and you might end up with the "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" speech.


You are absolutely right that we have poor communication. I always knew that our communication wasn't great, we've been in MC on and off for years, but I didn't know it was this bad. In the texts she told him that I'm too "oblivious" to the things that I do. She needs to stop talking to him about our problems and talk to me. I'm the only one who can fix them. Honestly, reading through those messages shows me how much I do that bothers her. I don't know how she expects them to get better if she won't tell me, or even the MC. 

I have, unfortunately, hurt her more than just not knowing about her triggers by cheating on her. 



TDSC60 said:


> Gang raped at 14 years old. In a relationship with OM for 4 years after that (18 year old) then he moves away/joins army. You enter her life at 19 yr old. Have a child at around 21 yr, then marry her at around 26 yr even though she has been talking texting OM the entire time and was hesitant to marry you. Been married 3 years and you have seen or heard her say she wishes he had been her first sexual experience after the rape and that it would be easier to have sex with him than you. She is obsessed with all things military and OM is in military. Is this about right?
> 
> He is the one that got away. You are the Plan B, the consolation prize she married grudgingly because he was not available but she continues her relationship with him by phone, email, and text. This is much more that a simple friendship and given half a chance she will go with him.
> 
> ...


Yup, that's about right. 

That sucks to hear and to let it sink in, but you are probably right. She mentions him from time to time. One time when we were hanging out with friends someone said something about armoured soldiers that I guess was incorrect. She immediately spewed out a ton of information like it was her own job. Then just said she had an ex with that job and quickly changed the subject. 

So back to MC we go... But you're right... She may be too obsessed with him to move on from him. 



jsmart said:


> Dude you need to get your excrement together. You have very fit young wife and you're 50 lbs over weight, dressing drab, and working nights? If she's not already cheating with a guy at the gym, she is very vulnerable to a smooth player swooping in. A fit 29 year old woman wants a strong, confident man to bang her often. But you're wife is disgusted by you.
> 
> Get your but into a gym to get into shape. Once you're into shape, I also recommend that you take up a martial art. The confidence you'll gain from being fit and knowing you can defend yourself will boost your confidence.
> 
> ...


I'm an emergency responder, so changing my job isn't that easy. Everyone wants day shifts, many people have to alternate days and nights which is hard to do. So I work 12 hour night shifts. It's not ideal, I know but it's what I've got to work with right now. My wife hates it. Between her schedule and mine, it feels like we never see each other. 

To be honest, and it's stupid in hindsight, I have never thought of her cheating with someone at the gym. She goes 5x a week. Her workplace has hundreds of employees, any of them could be banging her. I work all night, anyone could be in my house at night. 

I will read that book. I know that I need to work on myself, I lack the motivation. 



jsmart said:


> Yea, @Chaparral raised an excellent point. Why did it take you 7 years to marry her? She's good enough to have a kid with but you hesitated on marriage? She should have been your wife BEFORE your kid was born.
> 
> As soon as she was pregnant and you both decided to have it, your very next action should have been to propose. She had to go through the whole pregnancy and the baby/toddler years as a girlfriend. That was not forgotten. Then years later, you want to make an honest woman of her? Not surprised that she was luke warm. Especially if her "friend" is possibly telling her "
> if you were having my baby, I would've married you."
> ...


Our child was unplanned. She was (or was supposed to be) on birth control. When she got pregnant I wasn't ready to marry her and didn't want to get married just because a baby was coming. She really wanted me to propose at the very least, and that's my fault for not doing that for her. After our child was born we had a rough patch which involved me cheating on her. Marriage was moved off the table. We went through MC for 2 years then married. 

I know that I hurt her by taking so long to propose. We had some friends that had kids around the same time, they all got married. She was literally the only one who didn't and everyone asked when she would. She felt like she was at my mercy with that, I had all the control. 

Like someone else said, you could be right. I've been so focused on this guy, 6 hours away, that I haven't even considered the men she sees daily at the gym or work. 



TRy said:


> I usually agree with you Chap, but you are dead wrong saying that there is any brotherly feeling involved between her and the other man (OM). No way she could be telling the OM that she wishes that he was the first person that she had sex with, and that even today sex with the OM would be easier for her than sex with her husband. Sorry that is not how you talk to a brother. No way, no how. This is in fact a full blown emotional affair (EA), where the common run of the mill excuse that the OM is like a brother is being used.


I agree that she does not see him like a brother. She was in love with him, maybe still is. She told him that sex with him would be easier than sex with me because he knows everything and what not to do. I'd know that stuff as well if she'd just TELL ME. I'm furious at her for not understanding that. He responded to that with "I would have taken such good care of you. I always wished we could have been intimate but the timing was not in our favour". In my world he crossing the line more than my wife is, but that's stupid thinking. I'm just trying to throw the blame to someone other than my wife.




I didn't know they were talking as much as they do. When we talked about previous relationships she said (and still says) that in hindsight they didn't have a relationship. She claims the farthest they went was quick pecking kisses, not even making out. Their relationship as best friends, to BF/GF and back to best friends never changed - just the title changed. Whether she really believes that or not, I don't know. I'm thinking no and she was just using it as a cover up. Based on the texts, I'm 99% sure they have not been intimate (yet). 

I need to confront her about it. I've made my own mistakes in our marriage, probably worse than hers, but that doesn't give her an excuse to do this. If she wants this marriage to work then we need to discuss this, she needs to drop him as a friend and she needs to learn to talk to me and lean on me. Or hell, at least talk to a therapist about this.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

natsanjose said:


> In 2011-12 and 2015 I cheated on my wife. The first time we were not married, the second time we were. The first affair was with a 'childhood' ex-girlfriend of mine that I dated 20 years ago. I was working with her, due to the nature of our jobs we worked nights alone with each other. She has always had a special place in my heart, was recently broken up with and one thing led to another. It went on for about 6 months before my wife (then girlfriend) found out. I quit that job and stopped talking to her. We started MC. This is why I said I know first hand that ex's can be trouble. In 2015 I had a few ONS.


Well you might as well delete this thread and start all over because that was basically the punchline to all this that you left out. Just a note to posters, if you want good advice you need to tell the whole story. OP seriously post the full story of your dating and marriage up to this point with the cheating. You talked about her wanting to get married and then trying to back out in the first post, but you left out the cheating. Me thinks this may be why she suddenly had cold feet? Does your wife know about the ONS?

Maybe her loyalty to you is no more. Maybe she thinks like some of us once the contract is broken there is no reason to be faithful. Personally I would just move on but some don't at least physically. What have you done to fix your cheating and try to heal her pain? Seriously play with fire and your gonna get burned. You may have just killed your wife's love for you.


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## natsanjose (Mar 25, 2017)

I originally left out the cheating because I knew if I said I cheated on her I would just get told to divorce her, that she deserves better, that I deserve to be cheated on as well, that this is all caused by my cheating and she has done nothing wrong, etc. I realized that was wrong of me and I posted the other half of the equation. She knows about everything that I have done. She chose to stay and to go to MC. She had cold feet before (and after) I cheated.

A timeline, as requested:

-My wife was raped in 2002. She was in some sort of a non-intimate relationship with her ex somewhere between 2002 and 2006. In 2006 he enlisted in the military and moved away. 

-A few months later my wife moved to the same province that he is stationed in “for school”.

-6 months later in early 2007 we met and started a relationship. 

-The first year of our relationship could barely be seen as a relationship, we didn’t even kiss and barely held hands. There was something about her, that I wanted to work for. 

-In 2008 we started seeing a sex therapist, to help open the doors to intimacy. 

-We had sex for the first time in 2009, she got pregnant almost immediately. This is when she started talking about marriage. She wanted to be engaged at the very least, I didn’t want to propose just because she was pregnant. 

-Somewhere in the middle we moved in together. 

-We had a child in 2010. She kept pressing for marriage. She was upset that I wouldn’t marry her but had a child with her (an accidental child). 

-After she got pregnant and up until our child was a few months old, there wasn’t much contact between my wife and her ex. 

-After our child was born things slowly started getting worse. I didn’t enjoy being a father, I didn’t have any bond. My wife was controlling, and now I appreciate her for it because she knew better than I did, but at the time I viewed it as I wasn’t good enough to help her or my opinion didn’t matter. She kept pressing for marriage and I was getting further away from it. She started pulling back from me and I started pulling back from her, our intimacy stopped, she stopped talking about marriage and the odd time I brought it up she wasn’t interested. 

-Contact with her ex picked up again.

-In late 2011 and early 2012 I had an affair with a long ago ex-girlfriend of mine (from 20 years ago now) who I was working with. 

-My wife found out about the affair from a friend of mine. It snapped me out of it and I ended the affair. 

-After my wife found out about the affair she very suddenly decided to lose weight and get back in shape. She started a very vigorous exercise program with a personal trainer. She had about 30 pounds of weight that stuck around after her pregnancy, she lost it in 3 months. And went from being stationary to working out 5x a week and running 5x a week.  

-I have not spoken to that women since the day my wife found out. I quit my job and found another one, taking a significant pay decrease. My wife has had full access to all of my electronics since and can ask where I am, what I’m doing whenever she wants. For the first year I had to call and check up constantly. 

-My wife and I started MC and continued with that for 2 years. We got back to a good place in our relationship. 

- Contact with her ex stopped shortly after we start MC, mid-2012. There is a year with no visible contact. 

-Contact with her ex started again in mid-2013. 

-Late 2013 I started talking about marriage and she was the one who was hesitant. 

-In January 2014 I proposed to her and we married that March. My wife had cold feet through our short engagement. 

-When I proposed he stopped contact with her, January 2014.

-The start to our marriage was good, we kept up with MC though went much less. 

-They remained in no contact for most of 2014, sporadic messages. 

-In 2015 I had a series of one night stands with other women. 

-I told my wife that I had cheated on her, though I didn’t tell her with how many women. Once again I quit my job and this time (due to her wishes) we moved (2 hours closer to her ex). I found another job and once again we went back to MC full swing. 

-Contact started back up with her ex. He supported her through a lot of it. He told her to leave me (understandable). 

-Come to think of it my wife went to visit "family" for a week immediately after finding out about my cheating, which she has never done before or since. 

-In MC I confessed to my wife exactly what I had done in the previous months. It was a very hard road to get out of that hole I dug. 

-We started 2016 on a good note. Things seemed to be looking up for us. Contact with her ex stops again. 

-Mid 2016 **** went downhill again. My wife pulled back, intimacy stopped. She started using her phone more often, being on social media more, was very slightly more protective over her electronics. She no longer has an interest in me. 

-Contact with her ex has been high since. We have been in MC on and off, with no progress to be made.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Why exactly did you decide to leave the fact that you are a repeat offender cheater out of your story?!?

Drone on and on whining about her talking to her KISA, when you did SO much worse to her over and over?
I've got no help for you dude. In fact, she should go be with him!! You can't even be honest to a bunch of strangers on the internet. How in the world must she feel?

Your one lucky SOB that she is even still with you...


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

natsanjose said:


> I originally left out the cheating because I knew if I said I cheated on her I would just get told to divorce her, that she deserves better, that I deserve to be cheated on as well, that this is all caused by my cheating and she has done nothing wrong, etc. I realized that was wrong of me and I posted the other half of the equation. She knows about everything that I have done. She chose to stay and to go to MC. She had cold feet before (and after) I cheated.


Oh I see you left out a minor detail, like being a serial cheater. You fooled us like you fooled your BW.


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## natsanjose (Mar 25, 2017)

Spicy said:


> Why exactly did you decide to leave the fact that you are a repeat offender cheater out of your story?!?
> 
> Drone on and on whining about her talking to her KISA, when you did SO much worse to her over and over?
> I've got no help for you dude. In fact, she should go be with him!! You can't even be honest to a bunch of strangers on the internet. How in the world must she feel?
> ...


I left it out because I knew this was the type of response I would get... Yes, I cheated on her. Yes, it was wrong. Yes, I've paid for those mistakes and still am. Even though I cheated, if she is cheating that still does not make it okay. My own past makes me more willing to work on this, she did it for me when I betrayed her. 

Either way, I'm going to have to talk to her today. Even if she isn't cheating, she is confiding in a man other than her husband. Every time our relationship takes a hit, she runs back to him. When our relationship is good, he's out of the picture. She isn't innocent here. I'm not either, I'm more than aware for that and I pay for it every day. I looked up her gym log last night, she's been going twice a day for the last 9 months though she tells me that she only goes in the morning. Our schedules allow me to be completely unaware of her day. 

I will regret cheating on my wife every day for the rest of my life. I probably deserve to understand how she felt. That still doesn't give her a free pass, though. Her ex needs to go. She should probably switch an an all women's gym as well, we have a couple. 



lordmayhem said:


> Oh I see you left out a minor detail, like being a serial cheater. You fooled us like you fooled your BW.


I said that I hurt her, and I said that we had rough patches. I didn't totally leave it out or ignore it. I didn't want a series of responses that all followed the same pattern of, I did worse to her, I don't deserve her, I deserve it, she should be with her ex, I'm just shifting my own guilt and she's doing nothing wrong. I realized that was wrong and corrected myself.


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## rzmpf (Mar 11, 2016)

natsanjose said:


> I said that I hurt her, and I said that we had rough patches. I didn't totally leave it out or ignore it. I didn't want a series of responses that all followed the same pattern of, I did worse to her, I don't deserve her, I deserve it, she should be with her ex, I'm just shifting my own guilt and she's doing nothing wrong. I realized that was wrong and corrected myself.


It's not even about that. With your cheating you destroyed her trust in you and to cope with that she goes to the only person that did not let her down, her friend. You are no longer the guy she can come to with her problems, the other guy is. Could be that they were smart enough to not have sex as teens because that would have probably destroyed the relationship they had and still have.

Would you be with her if you did not have a child with her? Because your story sounds more like you wanted to have sex with her and worked for it for years and after you had her you had problems to commit to her.

You should ask your wife the same question.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Ok, I'm going to admit my ignorance: What the heck is "NISA?"


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## natsanjose (Mar 25, 2017)

rzmpf said:


> It's not even about that. With your cheating you destroyed her trust in you and to cope with that she goes to the only person that did not let her down, her friend. You are no longer the guy she can come to with her problems, the other guy is. Could be that they were smart enough to not have sex as teens because that would have probably destroyed the relationship they had and still have.
> 
> Would you be with her if you did not have a child with her? Because your story sounds more like you wanted to have sex with her and worked for it for years and after you had her you had problems to commit to her.
> 
> You should ask your wife the same question.


He dumped her without giving her a reason and she was heartbroken, so I wouldn't say that he has never let her down. I was never the guy that she came to with her problems, that's the problem. Even before I cheated, she went to him. 

They didn't have a speck of intimacy because she was too broken. I'm sure he tried. It took her 2 years to have any intimacy with me. 

If we didn't have a child I wouldn't be with her no. But we do have a child so that's irrelevant. She was suppose to be on birth control, yet got pregnant within 3 months of having sex. I have suspicions that it was not 'unplanned' but have no proof of that. When I met her, I wanted to fix her, save her, whatever other phrase you'd like to use. Yes, I had regrets but that is beside the point. That is my family, which yes I have hurt but I have also worked hard to keep our family together after I destroyed it. 



thummper said:


> Ok, I'm going to admit my ignorance: What the heck is "NISA?"


Knight In Shining Armour.


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## stixx (Mar 20, 2017)

natsanjose said:


> Knight In Shining Armour.


So that would be KISA then.


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## natsanjose (Mar 25, 2017)

stixx said:


> So that would be KISA then.


Never said I was smart. Actually had to look up how to spell 'knight' because my brain wasn't getting there.


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## rzmpf (Mar 11, 2016)

natsanjose said:


> He dumped her without giving her a reason and she was heartbroken, so I wouldn't say that he has never let her down. I was never the guy that she came to with her problems, that's the problem. Even before I cheated, she went to him.
> 
> They didn't have a speck of intimacy because she was too broken. I'm sure he tried. It took her 2 years to have any intimacy with me.
> 
> If we didn't have a child I wouldn't be with her no. But we do have a child so that's irrelevant. She was suppose to be on birth control, yet got pregnant within 3 months of having sex. I have suspicions that it was not 'unplanned' but have no proof of that. When I met her, I wanted to fix her, save her, whatever other phrase you'd like to use. Yes, I had regrets but that is beside the point. That is my family, which yes I have hurt but I have also worked hard to keep our family together after I destroyed it.


Fact is you don't know what happened in their relationship. Maybe she didn't want to have sex, maybe he didn't want to have sex with a girl he helped getting over her rape. Maybe they didn't want to introduce sex into their relationship or whatever.
Also fact is that they both seem to pine about the missed opportunity which is a bad sign.

So apparently he is her coping mechanism from the start. Therapy should have addressed that long ago, it's just not healthy. Why have you started and continued the relationship if he was always there? It seems to me that you both got into the relationship for all the wrong reasons there are in this world. Maybe it's time to let the curtain drop and end the charade. 

Family is just a word, a definition, emotions and actions in the so called family either make it one or they don't. In your case I tend to the latter because of how you both are acting throughout your relationship. But it's ultimately your decision. You need to talk to your W about the state of your relationship as a whole, you either do that now or after investigating if she is having some kind of affair at her gym. But don't waste too much time.


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## natsanjose (Mar 25, 2017)

This evening I tried to talk to my wife about our marriage and her behaviour, she was lying through her teeth. I didn’t tell her that I knew she was lying, I just went with it. It was incredibly hard to do that and not lash out at her. When I cheated on her, I told her everything. The least she can do is offer the same courtesy. She forgave me for cheating. Every time, she forgave me. Previously I thought I could offer her the same forgiveness but I don’t know if I really could. If it’s purely emotional then maybe but if it’s gone physical, with anyone, I might be done. 

We have security cameras that I was suppose to install months ago and never got around to it. I put one in our bedroom in a place were she won’t notice it. I work nights so she could bring anyone home for the night and I’d never know. If she has someone over I will know. If she calls someone, I know she FaceTime’s her ex regularly, I’ll be able to see/hear that. 

She has been going to the gym twice as much as she tells me. And more than she even needs to. Who needs to go to the gym in the morning, afternoon and run 5 miles around the neighbourhood? The gym she goes to has a website with an online log, she uses the same passwords for everything so I can login and see when she is there. I might give her a surprise visit tomorrow. 

I logged into her Facebook and looked at her ex's brother's facebook pages. They have posted pictures with her ex 5x in the last 15 months. The pictures say where they were taken which proves her ex has been coming down this way every 3 months. Around the time the pictures were posted the chatting slowed down or skipped a few days.

She obviously isn't going to come clean. I don't look at her the same anymore. Like what, is she having gang bangs at the gym every day? She is supposed to be _sooo_ frickin' traumatized from her rape. Not acting like it now.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

*Re: My wife is chatting with her ex/KISA*

Trauma has weird ways of coming out. She hid sex but perhaps 'owning' sex is another coping mechanism.

I'm not sure that her having a physical affair in addition to her ex boyfriend smells right to me. I usually start with the most likely scenario.

The most likely scenario is she shut down after your second set of affairs. The marriage was saved but the love was not. I think this ex, while absolutely an affair, is more of an awkward outlet for her emotions. You cannot be trusted and neither of you ever put in the work to rebuild that.

You do need to find out if this is an affair but you also need IC to help you repair some of this damage. You may be trying to repair something that isn't there


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Its really hard to determine who the real lying cheating immoral [email protected] is here actually! Jeez! "At least I told her everything when I got caught cheating (many times)"!!!!! Indeed! You really need to fix yourself before even trying to understand why she is trying to get away from you and is cheating.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

natsanjose said:


> I read about emotional affairs and some of the signs are there. She isn't secretive with her phone really. If I ask to use it she will let me but takes a second to give it to me usually. Same with her laptop. If I want to use it and and it's in another part of the house, she always goes and gets it and takes a minute. She isn't deleting their conversations, they go back a long ways. But she could be deleting certain messages or history. Of course the opposite is possible, she isn't hiding anything and takes a minute to give it to me because she is legitimately doing/reading something.
> 
> Our intimacy has taken a pretty big hit. When she was pushing for marriage, the first half of our relationship, things were great. Then they dipped and it felt like we were roommates. No kissing, no cuddling, no dates, limited sex, fights. We had some issues that caused that, mostly my fault. This may have started way back then. It's also when she totally stopped pushing for marriage and when I brought it up either stalled or straight up said she didn't want to (yet). Things eventually got back on track, and we married. Things were good for a bit. A year into our marriage we had another issue and our marriage went into the dumps. We've been working on it since, it's a lot better but not were it use to be. I don't know if my behaviour is to blame, hers, or both.
> 
> ...


I'm a few pages behind, so I apologize if any of this is repetitive.

She's having an emotional affair, but not a traditional one, if that makes sense.

Like it or not, she has a strong bond with this guy for a very legitimate reason. And that reason makes it almost impossible to pry her away from him.

In reality, you should have taken his place, in regards to a shoulder to lean on, but that hasn't happened, and it's, IMO, difficult to fault her. He was there.

Look, there's a reason they never really formed a real relationship together. I don't know what it was, but it's there. My assumption is that he is alternately her KISA and a reminder of a very dark time, rolled into one.

That said, a good therapist or counsellor or psychiatrist would likely recommend she try and transfer the level of trust she has in this guy to you. I am none of the above, but I imagine having a third party non-therapist (etc.) person as her rock, as opposed to her husband is not all that healthy, opposite sex or not.

All that said, these are very extenuating circumstances, and do not fall into the normal EA spectrum, IMO.

To be fair, she should NOT be discussing any marital issues (or complaints) with this guy. Talking about her prior terrible experiences - yes. The trust she has in him because of that is undeniable, and she obviously still requires it, and may always require it. But talking about you, or the marriage - no, absolutely not.

That needs to be addressed, IMO, but choose your words carefully and focus only on the discussion of your marriage to her. They may have an extremely close relationship, but that's not an excuse to discuss pet peeves and marital issues.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

She has already detached from you and is probably preparing to leave.

If I read your post correctly, her ex has possibly been with her several times already.

It doesn't really sound like you love her if you are only with her because of your child.

If you loved her, I could give you advice to fight for her.

How devoted are you to keeping your marriage to her?

It is going to take a lot of effort from you to get it heading in the right direction and it still might not work.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

natsanjose said:


> I left it out because I knew this was the type of response I would get... Yes, I cheated on her. Yes, it was wrong. Yes, I've paid for those mistakes and still am. Even though I cheated, if she is cheating that still does not make it okay. My own past makes me more willing to work on this, she did it for me when I betrayed her.
> 
> Either way, I'm going to have to talk to her today. Even if she isn't cheating, she is confiding in a man other than her husband. Every time our relationship takes a hit, she runs back to him. When our relationship is good, he's out of the picture. She isn't innocent here. I'm not either, I'm more than aware for that and I pay for it every day. I looked up her gym log last night, she's been going twice a day for the last 9 months though she tells me that she only goes in the morning. Our schedules allow me to be completely unaware of her day.


After having read the rest of your thread, my above response still applies, but with the significant addition of this:

She is literally the only man in the world that she trusts, and trusts completely. Her past and your subsequent actions have made it this way. And, although I felt badly for her before, I feel even more so now.

My advice, honestly, is end this. For her sake just as much as yours. You will never, never, never gain the trust she has for this guy, ever. You were already at a disadvantage from the get-go with this, but having been unfaithful to her (twice) has completely taken that out of the equation. You had a chance at one point, and now it's gone for good.

People who have gone through this kind of trauma absolutely require somebody they can trust (as much as they are able to). You have shown that you are not it. For 15 or so years, he HAS.

It can be completely amicable. You can still co-parent. Everybody will be happier.


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## Dr. Stupid (Dec 8, 2016)

alexm said:


> After having read the rest of your thread, my above response still applies, but with the significant addition of this:
> 
> She is literally the only man in the world that she trusts, and trusts completely. Her past and your subsequent actions have made it this way. And, although I felt badly for her before, I feel even more so now.
> 
> ...


This ^^^^ natsanjose, about the best that you can do.

As for having to drag details of the relationship out of you, all that I can say is that one does not go to the doctor, tell the doctor about some symptoms but not all, and then expect to get a decent diagnosis. 

One can't come here, give part of the story, and then expect to get good advice.

Everyone knows that rape is traumatic. A rape victim who later becomes a victim of infidelity will generally never recover from that betrayal, because they tend to look sexual intimacy differently than others. 

Once you cheated on her, her feelings about sex with you most likely changed from something that was loving and intimate, and yet stressful to a degree because of a feeling of vulnerability, to exploitation for your personal gratification. 

Cheaters have no business making vows to anyone, but even more so, with victims of sexual assault. 

The reason that you left out key details to begin with, was because you knew what the responses would be. I don't know why you'd want advice based on a false premise, as that type of advice is worthless.

Yes, it is better that you moved on. You destroyed an already fragile person with your infidelity. Sorry.


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## Primrose (Mar 4, 2015)

natsanjose said:


> *When I cheated on her, I told her everything.* The least she can do is offer the same courtesy.


Foot in mouth. You did NOT tell her everything. You only told her you cheated. Not with how many women you had one night stands with. 



natsanjose said:


> -In 2015 I had a series of one night stands with other women.
> 
> *-I told my wife that I had cheated on her, though I didn’t tell her with how many women.*


You expect more of your wife than you are willing to give her. Perhaps she is on to you and that's why she is seemingly done with your marriage. I know I would be.


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## stixx (Mar 20, 2017)

natsanjose said:


> Yes, I cheated on her. Yes, it was wrong. Yes, I've paid for those mistakes and still am.


When people refer to cheating as a "mistake" what that really says is they are excusing themselves because, hey, you know the expression "everybody makes mistakes".
@natsanjose a mistake is putting the wrong amount of deductions on your tax return.

Knowingly and willingly inserting your penis into another woman's vagina is not a mistake.

It's a character flaw. One that cannot possibly fixed until at the very least, the person stops excusing it as a "mistake".


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

OP,

Just because your wife made the decision to stay with you after your cheating, doesn't mean the slate is clean. She can't help but be effected by it, and now you are seeing the results. She is having an EA with him, trusts him more than she does you, and is likely looking for an exit affair. If not with him, then I predict someone else eventually. 

And if she would divorce you before giving up this "friend", your marriage is on life support. To me, you only have one choice if you want to save it. 

Sit down with your wife and have a talk. Tell her you love her. Apologize to her again for betraying her, thank her for giving you another chance, and tell her you are 100% committed to meeting her needs and being the husband she deserves. Tell her you want to be the person she can talk to about anything. But.....you can't accept her continuing to have contact with this friend; because it's an EA and it's destroying the marriage. 

If she refuses; don't lash out at her. Tell her that you understand. Take responsibility for your past actions that are influencing her decision. Tell her you love her again and that you just want her to be happy - so it's best that you both move on. 

Then start the divorce process. Do a modified 180, don't sleep with her; but be kind while you're doing it. Give her room to change her mind. If she doesn't, finish the D and take the life lesson you learned into your next relationship.


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## 5Creed (May 29, 2011)

natsanjose said:


> This evening I tried to talk to my wife about our marriage and her behaviour, she was lying through her teeth. I didn’t tell her that I knew she was lying, I just went with it. It was incredibly hard to do that and not lash out at her. When I cheated on her, I told her everything. The least she can do is offer the same courtesy. She forgave me for cheating. Every time, she forgave me. Previously I thought I could offer her the same forgiveness but I don’t know if I really could. If it’s purely emotional then maybe but if it’s gone physical, with anyone, I might be done.
> 
> We have security cameras that I was suppose to install months ago and never got around to it. I put one in our bedroom in a place were she won’t notice it. I work nights so she could bring anyone home for the night and I’d never know. If she has someone over I will know. If she calls someone, I know she FaceTime’s her ex regularly, I’ll be able to see/hear that.
> 
> ...


*
*

OP-I am thinking the above bolded is coming from a place of anger. I am not trying to be hard on you; just observing-but this kind of comment you made about her rape is about the most insensitive **** comment you could say about it. I do hope you don't ever say that to her face. There is so much recovery that needs to be actually worked on with a therapist when a woman or man has been raped. Especially at such a young age. She doesn't feel safe with you at all. Which is why she is leaning on her friend. Every time there was trouble in your marriage, she ran to confide in her safe person. Is it wrong? Yes it is but with the cheating going back and forth I am not surprised this is where things stand right now with you two. She doesn't trust you to be that person for her to confide in etc. and you know why.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

natsanjose said:


> This evening I tried to talk to my wife about our marriage and her behaviour, she was lying through her teeth. I didn’t tell her that I knew she was lying, I just went with it. It was incredibly hard to do that and not lash out at her. When I cheated on her, I told her everything. The least she can do is offer the same courtesy. She forgave me for cheating. Every time, she forgave me. Previously I thought I could offer her the same forgiveness but I don’t know if I really could. If it’s purely emotional then maybe but if it’s gone physical, with anyone, I might be done.
> 
> We have security cameras that I was suppose to install months ago and never got around to it. I put one in our bedroom in a place were she won’t notice it. I work nights so she could bring anyone home for the night and I’d never know. If she has someone over I will know. If she calls someone, I know she FaceTime’s her ex regularly, I’ll be able to see/hear that.
> 
> ...


WooHoo this is some very hot narcissism. She's forgiven you "EVERY TIME." Sounds like more than one affair to me. It's always interesting to watch the reactions of cheaters, when they get cheated on. Now, you question her rape and make a joke. It sucks you are hurting, but your AFFAIR(s) didn't help this situation at all.


> When I cheated on her, I told her everything. The least she can do is offer the same courtesy.


I did laugh out loud at these two sentences. If she has cheated and hid it, she did offer you the same courtesy. You came clean on your timetable so, you should afford her the same "courtesy" and wait for hers. Nope, she is wrong for cheating no matter what she forgave and what you have done. Still, this moral high ground some of you cheaters have, when the tables are turned, is hilariously hypocritical.


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## natsanjose (Mar 25, 2017)

Ok, I apologize for any douchey, rude, crappy things I have said here. I just want to figure out what the hell my wife is doing behind my back. She denies, denies, denies. I surprised her at the gym to "take her out on a date" and she wasn't wearing her wedding rings. She said she takes them off to work out but she doesn't at home. I told her that I know her ex has been coming down here, she "swore" she hasn't seen him. I'm tempted to take her phone and message her ex, pretending to be my wife and she what happens. I want to know who the **** she is ****ing, because it sure ain't me.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Well there have been two other guys that have gone through this very thing over the past three years. 

Both there wives left them for the military guy and both the wives had a love with the OM. 

Good luck.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

*Re: My wife is chatting with her ex/KISA*

To be fair I take my rings off at the gym as well.


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## natsanjose (Mar 25, 2017)

ABHale said:


> Well there have been two other guys that have gone through this very thing over the past three years.
> 
> Both there wives left them for the military guy and both the wives had a love with the OM.
> 
> Good luck.


Here?



eric1 said:


> To be fair I take my rings off at the gym as well.


Do you take them off if you're working out at home?


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

natsanjose said:


> Here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I don't take them off at home workouts - much different equipment.

Lots of people are buying those Qalo rings for this reason. Perhaps OP should get her one, then she'd have no excuse


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

No


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## natsanjose (Mar 25, 2017)

She wasn't happy when I surprised her at the gym, I went when she should have been close to being done. I told her that she needs to stop contacting her ex because it's affecting our marriage. Her response was that I'm just projecting my actions and my guilt onto her and that not everyone cheats. That she isn't giving up her closet friend because my cheating led me to be insecure. And that she isn't cheating but what is going to screw up our marriage is my insecurities, jealousy and "stocking". And that she can't talk to me about our problems because I don't care enough. 

Where do I go from here? I know she is hiding something. She downplays the amount of contact and type of contact she has with her ex. She has no answer for why she takes her ring off at the gym but not at home other than "so it doesn't get lost". She doesn't take it off anywhere else and they are well fitted so they don't fall off. She has been acting off for a long time. After confronting her she changed her passwords and factory reset her phone.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

*Re: My wife is chatting with her ex/KISA*

If her phone is an iPhone 6 or newer, it takes about 3 seconds to bypass the password. I tried it on my phone and it is easy and fast. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## natsanjose (Mar 25, 2017)

*Re: My wife is chatting with her ex/KISA*



thenub said:


> If her phone is an iPhone 6 or newer, it takes about 3 seconds to bypass the password. I tried it on my phone and it is easy and fast.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just found some info online on how to do it. Thank you for the tip.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

natsanjose said:


> That she isn't giving up her closet friend because my cheating led me to be insecure.
> 
> Where do I go from here?


You can either accept things the way they are and let it go; or you can start the divorce process.

But I can tell you this; as long as your wife values her friendship with him more than her marriage, you don't have much of a marriage to cling on to - if you decide to do nothing.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Your comment "who she is whoring herself out to" seems to define you. 

Let me ask you this, do you think your wife at one time blamed herself for your adultery? That she couldn't give you what a normal person could? Note I ask not what you thought or said. I asked if she might have? 

Your child, what is your relationship with the child? You work nights, that gibes you the entire afternoon and early evening.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Why would she value her marriage more. OP cheated on her, OM has always been there for her. It's no wonder that she trust the OM more.


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## natsanjose (Mar 25, 2017)

JohnA said:


> Your comment "who she is whoring herself out to" seems to define you.
> 
> Let me ask you this, do you think your wife at one time blamed herself for your adultery? That she couldn't give you what a normal person could? Note I ask not what you thought or said. I asked if she might have?
> 
> Your child, what is your relationship with the child? You work nights, that gibes you the entire afternoon and early evening.


I apologize for that comment, I removed it from my post. My wife is having sex with another man of course I am upset and have said some things that I should not have. I'm not one to believe in karma but I probably deserve what has been thrown my way. 

I know that my wife blamed herself. She has blamed herself since the moment it happened. Even before, really. She wasn't the cause but yes she did blame herself. Trust me I know that I hurt her, if I could take it back I would. Unfortunately that isn't an option. That being said, two wrongs do not make a right. Just because I cheated on her does not give her a free pass to also cheat. I know she is sleeping with someone. It may not be her ex, I'm starting to doubt that it is, but it's someone. 



ABHale said:


> Why would she value her marriage more. OP cheated on her, OM has always been there for her. It's no wonder that she trust the OM more.


She agree to stay married. In that moment our marriage should have been more important. She may trust a friend more than me but she should also be willing to work on that. She hasn't shown any sign that she wants to try to transfer that trust to me.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

natsanjose said:


> I apologize for that comment, I removed it from my post. My wife is having sex with another man of course I am upset and have said some things that I should not have. I'm not one to believe in karma but I probably deserve what has been thrown my way.
> 
> I know that my wife blamed herself. She has blamed herself since the moment it happened. Even before, really. She wasn't the cause but yes she did blame herself. Trust me I know that I hurt her, if I could take it back I would. Unfortunately that isn't an option. That being said, two wrongs do not make a right. Just because I cheated on her does not give her a free pass to also cheat. I know she is sleeping with someone. It may not be her ex, I'm starting to doubt that it is, but it's someone.
> 
> ...


Not if you show no signs of trusting her. 

Not if you keep treating her like **** because of YOUR insecurities. 

Not if you can't get your life together because of the things you have done.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

If nothing is going on, she should give you access to all of devices, social media, and email. Then you can use Dr Phone to get undeleted text. 

There's a strong possibility that she's "hooked up" with this "friend" when he comes to town. You know a guy will drive a few hours for some sure thing sex with a woman that's working her body to such hot levels. 

But I think that it's more likely that she's having an affair with a guy from the gym. Possibly someone that she trains with. I'd bet it would've started as a FWB but she's developed feelings for him, which is why your sexually cut off. Not to mention that she'd be repulsed by your 50 lbs over weight touch vs hot guy from the gym.

I have to reiterate that you need to up your game. I'm talking the complete you. (clothes, hair, hygiene, body, ETC) You said that you find it hard to get motivated to start getting in shape. If you can't do it to fight for your marriage then I don't know what to freaking tell you.


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## sogold (Apr 4, 2017)

Forget about changing your spouse and focus on changing yourself. At least in my relationship, I had my head in the sand. I didn’t realize that I was the problem. I just didn’t get it. I’m not here to tell you husbands are bad and wives are good. What I am saying is that in order to work on a relationship, you must first look at yourself. GoodLuck:smthumbup:
__________________________________________________________
sogold - can ho hado centrosa garden - sua bep tu go vap


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## smi11ie (Apr 21, 2016)

You have serial cheated on her. This guy has been her rock. Sometimes you have to think about the other person for a change. Can you honestly say you are better for her than he is? You could win her back but you would probably S*** on her again.


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## natsanjose (Mar 25, 2017)

My wife has ****ed 3 men while we have been together. 3 men that she admitted to, at least. It's something that I can't even process. Saying what's on my mind would be an incoherent mess. I know people are going to think that I deserve it, after all I cheated on her first. Two people that she ****ed were started off as total strangers to her. When we met, we were fully together for 2 years before we had sex. Yet she can drop her panties for a stranger? Two strangers, actually. And yes, the third person that she banged was her ex. Or not so much of an ex. How a woman can go from being so traumatized from rape that she couldn't even go out in public, couldn't let me touch her for years, to screwing whoever will take her, I do not know. Who even knows if the men she put in prison should have been in there.

She said every time it was just "sex and companionship" and "nothing else happened". There was no remorse in her words or on her face. 

At this point, we're done and she isn't welcome in this house. I told her to pack her crap and leave, I don't really care where she goes.


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## ddude23 (Mar 16, 2017)

You did cheat and cheating is a horrible thing to do to somebody. But she's cheating on you and has cheated on you even if you did it first, she has absolutely NO leverage. Leave this woman. Cheating is one thing but rubbing the affair in your partners face is classless and cruel. I don't get why people here are taking her side, she is just as bad.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

I am surprised she admitted to these. Did you disclose your evidence?


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