# Friendly vs. Flirty



## DazedAndConfused25 (Sep 17, 2014)

I already have my friends and family perspective on this and how to handle it. I'm just not sure what to make of the situation. I just don't understand the why and that bothers me.

*How we met:* The guy is a fireman. His crew came out to my local annual block party. They always do. My stepdad, knowing I'm single and dating, does the, "Oh, ___ go meet the fireman!" So we trade introductions.

*Innocent flirting:* We engage in some body language only flirting without breaking a physical contact barrier. Everyone jokes to my mom that she better keep an eye on me because "that firefighter is trying to pick up your daughter!" He sticks me in the truck to get a picture, makes jokes about how I grabbed his helmet, blah blah. Then it's time to go. He locks me in the firetruck to say goodbye, comes back and gets in on the other side, winks at me, and asks me where we're headed next. I, missing the memo, say he has another block party to go to and I have a hot dog with my name on it. Get out. They leave. I left my number in his hat. He wasn't wearing a ring and made a comment about the other firefighter being married so I figured he must be single.

*Not so innocent:* 20 minutes later, they come back. Which is weird. I keep talking to my mom and neighbors. I notice he keeps looking over at me, but I avoid eye contact. We finally make contact, and he winks at me and smiles. So I get up and bring him a cookie, he says, "That was sweet of you, honey." Whatever. Makes a joke about not coming over to my house now because I own a snake. He keeps joking about me bringing treats to the station on his next shift. So finally I told him a note in his helmet. He asks if he should use it, I say yes. Eventually, I'm tired and want to go home since I don't live with my parents. I get ready to go and so he rounds up his crew to leave. Coincidence, no. Before I leave, he says, "So I'll see you Tuesday?" (this was Sunday) and I say yes. *Forgot one!* A lady walked by with her baby and tried to strike up a convo with the firemen. Captain defers her to one of the firefighters, and I make the joke that it's time for him to go a kiss a baby. He replies it's all part of the job: shaking hands, taking pictures, kissing babies, and kissing pretty ladies. Then he winked at me. Damn the winking.

*Crossing the line?:* Tuesday comes and goes because I'm super busy with my new job and getting my MS. So by the time i go, they are on call. I go back Wed to drop off cookies, but find out they don't work until Sunday. I'm not about to be judged by 5 day old baked goods. So I bake new ones Sunday, throw on a casual but cute outfit, and take them down. He greets me and gives me a tour. Another fireman offered to do it since he is the captain and had a lot to do, but he insisted on giving me the tour himself. Halfway through the tour, I get the sense to ask if he is married due to a previous comment about missing his kid's soccer game and my stepdad said, "A man that age, that together, and that handsome has to be married." Flirty moments:
1) I walk in and it's super hot so I say it's really hot in there to which he replies (lol really? get some better game) it's just you. This happened twice.
The rest of these were AFTER admitting to being married, and I said I don't mess around with married man. 
2) I call him out for being flirty when he is married and he says he is just friendly and apologizes if he came off as flirting. Then he asks me if I'm married or have a boyfriend. I said no husband, no boyfriend, so I'm free to flirt but just not with him since he's married. He said something about "you don't mess with married men" but in hindsight I couldn't tell if that was advice or a question. After, he goes on about how most firemen get divorced. And gets really sentimental for a bit. Then, asks me if I could date a guy who was divorced. I said they'd have to really be divorced. Not separated, but legally divorced. With no kids, well maybe kids. He responds, kids are great. You should consider it. Basically felt like he was hinting at something. 
3) He tells me, "It's too bad he's married because I'm really cute."
4) He tells me, "Good thing I'm married. If we were together, I'd be 300 lbs." because I'm an excellent baker.
4) On my way out, I said that he was free to give my number to any hot, SINGLE firemen. He said he had one in mind, but the way he said it just felt weird. Idk. Like I didn't trust it. 

I mean... I don't even know what I'm asking. 
*Did he cross a line or was he legit being friendly? Or was he being flirty and that's ok?
Why bother flirting if he's married? Happy or not, seems strange to me.*

Don't worry about counseling me not to date him. Like I said, I did that once when both parties (wife and husband) admitted to being separated for 2 years with no chance of reconciliation. I ended up filing for two restraining orders and have criminal charges against the husband. Also, I don't know his home situation. I didn't play 20 ?s about his marriage since I lost interest once I found out about it.

And the why do I care... I'm abnormally hurt by this. I get rejected a lot or I go out with guys and things don't work out. But this was the first time I got the butterflies and met someone who I thought had the complete package. Personality, good lucks, community job like me (I'm a teacher), great with kids, stable... so handsome. That has to be brought up twice. I have pretty good flirting skills, and I felt nervous/ off my game around him which never happens. Idk. I'm just really, for lack of better wording, butthurt over this.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Why bother flirting if he's married? Because he's obviously looking for someone to play with. Yes, he's way more than just friendly. No, it's not okay.


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## DazedAndConfused25 (Sep 17, 2014)

Openminded said:


> Why bother flirting if he's married? Because he's obviously looking for someone to play with. Yes, he's way more than just friendly. No, it's not okay.


But that's not fair to me or to his wife. Am I just some ego boost for him? Oh, I got the attention of a girl 10 years younger than me. Oh, I get bragging rights because the cute girl brought cookies to the station. Is this what people mean when they say they got played? UGH See, I'm 25. Every guy I've dated it's been 1-3 years and pretty back to back so I haven't really been single much. Or single as an adult.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

DazedAndConfused25 said:


> I mean... I don't even know what I'm asking.
> *Did he cross a line or was he legit being friendly? Or was he being flirty and that's ok?
> Why bother flirting if he's married? Happy or not, seems strange to me.*


If you do not see what happened, then.....:scratchhead:

He is picking up meat wherever he can, and he is good at it. The ultimate bad boy. Your stepdad's signal was clearly not enough for you to be warned. And the whole situation is not clear to you. You may have been in the fog until it got to clear what HE wanted.

You still have to come clear with what YOU wanted out of it.


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## DazedAndConfused25 (Sep 17, 2014)

I guess I must be pretty :scratchhead: then. I'm a terrible judge of character. I don't know if I'm just young and naive or what, but I cannot read people to; literally, save my life. Idk, I went through my 9 months of "having fun" with people but maybe because now that I want something serious I mistook his flirting as just trying to get laid.




See_Listen_Love said:


> You still have to come clear with what YOU wanted out of it.


I wanted to date a total package SINGLE fireman. But I'm evidently not getting that.  I'd be lying if it didn't cross my mind to just have some fun with the guy. Again, I am single and fun is fun. But he's married. With at least one kid. Woman to woman, I've been wronged by enough women to not give. But as a teacher, I could never put a child through that.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Are you saying if there would not be a child involved you would have no problem with him being married, because you have been wronged by other women many times??


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## DazedAndConfused25 (Sep 17, 2014)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Are you saying if there would not be a child involved you would have no problem with him being married, because you have been wronged by other women many times??


I would have a problem, but not for the reason you are thinking. In before internet judgement time. My safety. As I mentioned, I dated a guy who was separated with a 3 year old daughter. Both parties admitted to the relationship being over which is the only reason I kept seeing him. She blew up my phone and stalked me so civil harassment order. He, when he lost his phone because we were celebrating/drinking, freaked out because "I must have taken it to text his wife" (like I want to and I can't do that from my own phone [/sarcasm] and slams me into the wall and injures my shoulder. Which, to this day, still hurts. So why repeat it?

As far as the wife versus child. Sociologically speaking, it's like eating meat. Hang with me for a moment. I love animals, I was almost a vet. I have a dog, cat, snake, and marine fish. I volunteer time at the animal shelter. I firmly believe in animal welfare and rights and cogniscience. However, I LOVE to eat meat. It is outrageously satisfying to eat meat. I crave it daily. Whether or not I buy the meat, meat will always be in supply because that is the nature of the business. The demand will never go away entirely. Also, I am so far removed from the killing and prepping process that, while I can be almost certain that the process is not as humane as I would like it to be, I don't witness the damage firsthand.

In other words:
- meat is to sex
- meat market is also a flawed system like this man's marriage but how they address that flaw is between them not me
- meat demand is to cheating man is going to cheat with or without me
- killing animals is to destroying this woman's heart, but I don't have any attachment to her. I can empathize having had every bf cheat on me while I remained faithful and tried to work it out. But really not a whole of sympathy.

But having taught in a title 1 school where only 1/32 were in a two parent household, and I witnessed firsthand how much a bad home life can affect a child. I wouldn't do it. Unless the paperwork was signed then maybe I'd get a jumpstart, but really fully divorced is the way to go. In my honest opinion and experience, if a man is at the point of emotionally or physically cheating then the relationship is dead anyway.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

DazedAndConfused25 said:


> But that's not fair to me or to his wife. Am I just some ego boost for him? Oh, I got the attention of a girl 10 years younger than me. Oh, I get bragging rights because the cute girl brought cookies to the station. Is this what people mean when they say they got played? UGH See, I'm 25. Every guy I've dated it's been 1-3 years and pretty back to back so I haven't really been single much. Or single as an adult.


Yes, you got played and he has his fun with you. Typically, you can recognize guys like this easily, so I'm wondering why it took so long for you to realize what was going on? I've come across many myself and would always avoid them. 

It's okay to be single and you have to learn how to be happy with yourself without a partner. As the saying goes, in order to be able to love someone else, you have to learn how to love yourself first. I'd stay away from men who come across that strong. He was obviously well known for crossing the line(as your family told you), but you still went after him. That says something about yourself too, so I'd take a nice look at that part of you.


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## CardReader (Aug 15, 2014)

Was he wearing his wedding ring?


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Classic example of a guy that has very little control of his ****. Quite normal actually.

IMO, you made a mistake OP. When a guy winks at you.....doesn't that turn you off? That's just awkward IMO.

I think you missed that BIG red flag.

Then he tells you he is married, and you not only proceed to talk to him but now post a thread on the forum?

Why? 

Seems to me like you are on a verge of missing a 2nd HUGE red flag. He is married, when you found out you should've said "thank you, but I have to go".

Speak to him with action, not words. You are not dealing with this guy, you are dealing with his ****!

:rofl:

Now, based on your other replies and your user name. I would highly suggest that you start paying CLOSE attention to YOURSELF.

You are your worst enemy. 

PS. Don't date a guy unless he was smart enough to take time to HEAL after their divorce. a) you don't want a dumb ass and b) you don't want to date a guy that's not over their ex/be a rebound.

Good luck


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
Innocent flirting can be good fun for all, serious flirting is a big problem if you are in a relationship with someone else. 

The differences are subtle, but I think they exist. 

Innocent flirting: no touching -ever. You can make positive comments, but not suggest (even as a joke) getting together. 

So, when a female friend commented about being hot (referring to the temperature) , I think it was OK for me to say - yes you are. 

It would not be OK to suggest that "we" do anything together.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> ot suggest (even as a joke) getting together.
> 
> So, when a female friend commented about being hot (referring to the temperature) , I think it was OK for me to say - yes you are.


See, I would think that is NOT ok while in a relationship. Keep it to yourself, no need to state it to other person.

If my wife was to say that to some guy, that's not cool. If she was to tell me "he is hot"......no problem there/thanks for sharing/honest.

Different strokes for different folks I guess


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

DoF said:


> S. Don't date a guy unless he was smart enough to take time to HEAL after their divorce. a) you don't want a dumb ass and b) you don't want to date a guy that's not over their ex/be a rebound.
> 
> Good luck


:scratchhead:

You tell OP not to date someone until they have healed after a divorce, yet tell another guy on a different thread to date a girl while his divorce papers are still being processed??  I don't get you. 

I will just say I agree to the above quote.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Anonymous07 said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> You tell OP not to date someone until they have healed after a divorce, yet tell another guy on a different thread to date a girl while his divorce papers are still being processed??  I don't get you.
> 
> I will just say I agree to the above quote.


Show me

I'm pretty sure if you look at my first reply in his thread....I pointed above out as a "red flag" on him.



2nd/3rd replies are all past that fact....what's done is done....


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

He knocked you on your side, and I would guess you might feel a little mix of euphoric curiosity and anger. Believe it or not, that is the effect that pick-up artists go for...to loosen you from logic and question your sanity, even if you get slightly offended...because even offense means that you are thinking about them and thus creates a scenario where you come to them for rectification...where more manipulation can take place. Not saying this is consciously in his mind, but some people are just naturally gifted at manipulation.

He was laying it on thick...and then retreated and advanced and retreated and advanced...it is pretty much out of the player's handbook, designed to make you crazy and look to them for stability. I am not saying that married men who flirt are uncommon, but his direct manner betrays that he is accustomed to this behavior. This is not a person who respects healthy boundaries...and I would guess you are scrambled about this because somehow this scenario has compromised a weakness in your own integrity (integrity, not in the moral usage, but integrity in terms of your your makeup as an individual. Who am I? What do I believe about me? Am I deficient, looking for others to complete me, or am I whole, looking for other whole, healthy people?)

The divorce option he brought up was only a lure...something to dismantle your guard enough to create some sort of magical thinking scenario where he would actually ditch his wife for you. Don't be a fool, and don't let his sick hypothesis worm your way into your head. 

And ESPECIALLY don't believe your self-talk that says you are missing out on something good here...as that will lead to desperation to act, and desperation causes people to make decisions based on fear, leading to poor choices and poor choices for relationships.

Walk away from this. Quickly.

And just for added clarity. After *two very brief encounters*, the discussion has already reached the stage of leaving one's wife for a stranger? BTW, his method of suggesting one of the "single firemen" was his tactic of "negging" you...basically luring you in and then "rejecting" you in a way to set the hook. The only reason you aren't dropping this douche without another though is because the hook was properly set. Get. Out. Of. This. Trap.

Oh, and another thing, my sister-in-law got involved with a divorce-ing firefighter who dumped her, took her back, dumped her, took her back, got married, kicked her out, took her back, kicked her out, took her back, kicked her out, divorced her.


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## DazedAndConfused25 (Sep 17, 2014)

Anonymous07 said:


> Typically, you can recognize guys like this easily, so I'm wondering why it took so long for you to realize what was going on?


It's an ongoing problem for me. I have a terrible judge of character. I'm very honest, and I don't play games because that's how I want to be treated. So I just naturally assume other people do that. I also feel like, in my profession, you have to be able to see the good in every person. So people can be complete ***holes to me, and I'll try to justify it for them.



CardReader said:


> Was he wearing his wedding ring?


He was not either time that I saw him. In his profession, a lot of men don't for safety. But I've also met many other firemen who wore their rings on duty. I also thought he was single because he made a comment about his partner's marriage, but neither made mention of his right after. So to me no ring + no rebuttal joke + chemistry = single guy.



DoF said:


> When a guy winks at you.....doesn't that turn you off? That's just awkward IMO.
> 
> Why?


I think winking is incredibly attractive. Everyone at my job winks, not in a flirty way. It's fun and cute and I can't do it! Haha.

As for why I'm posting and talking about it. See below response.



FormerSelf said:


> He knocked you on your side, and I would guess you might feel a little mix of euphoric curiosity and anger.
> 
> and I would guess you are scrambled about this because somehow this scenario has compromised a weakness in your own integrity (integrity, not in the moral usage, but integrity in terms of your your makeup as an individual. Who am I? What do I believe about me? Am I deficient, looking for others to complete me, or am I whole, looking for other whole, healthy people?)


That's really how I feel. I'm insecure. I'm half black and half Thai, too light to be black and too dark to be Thai. I grew up in an all caucasian neighborhood, always passed over for my friends. So as confident as I try to look and know I should be, I'm not. This is not the first married man to come on to me. Second to lie about it, but it's like... what am I doing that attracts these men? Is it me? And I'm attracted to them because they are stable financially, handsome, blah blah... so why can't I find men like that who are single? Everyone else in my life does. I feel like something is wrong with me.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

DazedAndConfused25 said:


> That's really how I feel. I'm insecure. I'm half black and half Thai, too light to be black and too dark to be Thai. I grew up in an all caucasian neighborhood, always passed over for my friends. So as confident as I try to look and know I should be, I'm not. This is not the first married man to come on to me. Second to lie about it, but it's like... what am I doing that attracts these men? Is it me? And I'm attracted to them because they are stable financially, handsome, blah blah... so why can't I find men like that who are single? Everyone else in my life does. I feel like something is wrong with me.


Good honest response here. It's a deep issue that I think requires pulling away from the "I'm available" queue for a season and go off and seek your personal authenticity. I think once you establish that, your confidence won't appear manufactured which is an attractor to game-players, as they will see your resistance as paper-thin and that you are a quick challenge. Healthy people with intact boundaries attract healthy relationships. 

At the same time, I am sure you are challenged by your individual ethnic/cultural diversity...and are struggling to find a fit. Sometimes we just want to belong by any means necessary...yet that is the desperation I mentioned that will open you to bad scenarios. 

Luckily, you are quite young and can get a jump on being comfortable in your own skin and authentic beauty which will reconfigure your ability to find relationships that aren't detrimental. Soon, you will develop a discernment of what you will allow in your circle and what you won't allow, and you won't have any problems telling the creepers to take a hike. 

Also, don't disengage your intuition, as you seemed to already know something was off, but you questioned it and faltered. That intuition is the unconscious authentic you, so pay attention if you think it is poking you on the shoulder.


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## DazedAndConfused25 (Sep 17, 2014)

Short reply since I'm on my phone. 

I hear what your saying. My massage therapist I think was trying to say a similar thing. The law of attraction, like attracts like. We haven't delved fully into the conversation. 

As far as my intuition, I've felt red flags before. I didn't feel it once with J (the ex who lied about being divorced then turned violent) or this guy. My parents knew. I described J to my mom, just talking, and the first thing she said was, "He's going to be a narcissistic abuser. End it." Which, I didn't because how could she make that snap judgement based on a quick facts summary of the guy. She also called that he was probably lying about being divorced. Same with firefight. I was glowing three days later when I went back to their house, my mom let's me retell the full story, and my step dad comes home. When I'm done, he says what he says. Never once dawned on me to think that something didn't add up.

ok that was not short sorry!


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

DazedAndConfused25 said:


> I think winking is incredibly attractive. Everyone at my job winks, not in a flirty way. It's fun and cute and I can't do it! Haha.


You know, that is just extremely weird.

You go back few decades and winking was reserved for prostitutes.

If I was a woman, ANYONE winking at me would be deeply offensive. It's disrespectful IMO.

From a male perspective, when you wink at a lady and she like it.....that's the opposite of classy and you are very low on the "woman" scale. Mind you, many men LOVE that as they love easy lay and girl that bangs away.....but they won't respect you much, trust me.

Don't lower your standards for complete dogs.

Just me though.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

FormerSelf said:


> Good honest response here. It's a deep issue that I think requires pulling away from the "I'm available" queue for a season and go off and seek your personal authenticity. I think once you establish that, your confidence won't appear manufactured which is an attractor to game-players, as they will see your resistance as paper-thin and that you are a quick challenge. Healthy people with intact boundaries attract healthy relationships.
> 
> At the same time, I am sure you are challenged by your individual ethnic/cultural diversity...and are struggling to find a fit. Sometimes we just want to belong by any means necessary...yet that is the desperation I mentioned that will open you to bad scenarios.
> 
> ...


Great post!

:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

DazedAndConfused25 said:


> That's really how I feel. I'm insecure. I'm half black and half Thai, too light to be black and too dark to be Thai. I grew up in an all caucasian neighborhood, always passed over for my friends. So as confident as I try to look and know I should be, I'm not. This is not the first married man to come on to me. Second to lie about it, but it's like... what am I doing that attracts these men? Is it me? And I'm attracted to them because they are stable financially, handsome, blah blah... so why can't I find men like that who are single? Everyone else in my life does. I feel like something is wrong with me.


There is nothing wrong with you and I think it's important for you to learn how to love yourself as you are(half black half Thai sounds beautiful!). Take some time to just work on yourself, not looking for a relationship and find that inner peace. It took me a while to be okay with myself and during that time period before I became confident, I met a lot of unavailable men. I think because I was so insecure, it attracted those who knew they could take advantage of me. I was an "easy target" and it was a fun game for them. After I became confident in myself, I could pick out those losers and quickly skip over them.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

I agree with above

You cannot love others, unless you love yourself FIRST.

Accept yourself for who you are. Accept your flaws and what nature has given you.

Love yourself.

I don't care what color you are or what nationality. All that crap is just "things" that put boundaries between people and LIMIT them.

Don't even think about that crap. You are a HUMAN on PLANET EARTH. That's it.

Once you learn to love yourself, THEN you will be ready for a relationship.

Also you will attract WAY more people as your current state not only reflects bad on you/give off bad vibes/atmosphere.....but also make you EXTREMELY vulnerable and high risk to BAD people/relationships.

People are like dogs, they sniff that from MILES away. 

People you WANT, will run away. People that you don't want will use that against you.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

He was flirting.
Stay away from this one, he is a player. A bad player as it is.


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## DazedAndConfused25 (Sep 17, 2014)

Thank you. It's just so weird that they can see right through me. I was shopping with my mom the other day. We shop in different sections since I'm still too short to shop in women's. When I walked up to her, she told me I looked so confident and fierce. People tell me all the time that's how I come off. I just don't understand how these guys can see through that. Idk. It's hard to take time. I've enjoyed being single, but at the same time I've never had a healthy relationship. It's been 10 years of dating wasted on men who are either emotionally or physically abusive. I feel like I don't have time to waste anymore. I know I'm 25, but when you expect to date/be engaged/be married for a while before kids and you want a kid desperately... every decision in my life has been about putting myself in the best position to be a mother. I feel like I should have found Mr. Right two years ago.



DoF said:


> You know, that is just extremely weird.
> 
> You go back few decades and winking was reserved for prostitutes.
> 
> ...


I could see that, but I grew up in a different generation/ different culture. This is what winking means to me: fun, friendly, anime culture.

I would take offense to your insinuation that I am very low on the woman scale except that statement is ignorant and unfounded. Instead, I'll just point out its baselessness and move on.







.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

DazedAndConfused25 said:


> I feel like I don't have time to waste anymore. I know I'm 25, but when you expect to date/be engaged/be married for a while before kids and you want a kid desperately... every decision in my life has been about putting myself in the best position to be a mother. I feel like I should have found Mr. Right two years ago.


This certainly makes sense, ...and I can see how this adds to the pressure. Reminds me of old Joan Rivers routine I saw recently...so even though things have modernized since then, there still is that undercurrent among women to have everything in place by the time they are 30. Paired with careers, know we know why the "quarter-life crisis" can be very potent with women today.

I think that it is great that you have your values...and I am sure that not all of your confidence is entirely false per se, but when you truly OWN IT, then I think you will have more stable results. 

Don't be to fettered by your relational state, it will arrive...just know that you have the right to be very picky. It is better to be choosy and take you time then to rush out there to alleviate your fears and then regret a very tragic mistake. Lots of people on these boards made tragic mistakes...some redeemable, some haunted, some trapped in limbo.

You can certainly find a guy who will meet all your criteria and not be a sociopath, but you just got to call out all the bs for what it is...and you need to catch it when you are sweeping your doubts under the rug.


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## bravenewworld (Mar 24, 2013)

DoF said:


> You know, that is just extremely weird.
> 
> You go back few decades and winking was reserved for prostitutes.
> 
> ...


Ok to me this is a little crazy town. I wink. My Grandmother winks. My Uncle winks. None of us are disrespectful or prostitutes. 

In my family it's like the thumbs up sign.


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## bravenewworld (Mar 24, 2013)

DazedAndConfused25 said:


> Thank you. It's just so weird that they can see right through me. I was shopping with my mom the other day. We shop in different sections since I'm still too short to shop in women's. When I walked up to her, she told me I looked so confident and fierce. People tell me all the time that's how I come off. I just don't understand how these guys can see through that. Idk. It's hard to take time. I've enjoyed being single, but at the same time I've never had a healthy relationship. It's been 10 years of dating wasted on men who are either emotionally or physically abusive. I feel like I don't have time to waste anymore. *I know I'm 25, but when you expect to date/be engaged/be married for a while before kids and you want a kid desperately... every decision in my life has been about putting myself in the best position to be a mother. I feel like I should have found Mr. Right two years ago.*


The likely reason they see through you is probably the bolded. Girl, you _thirsty._

Just the fact you dropped off cookies twice to the firehouse for that guy so they would be fresh when you barely knew him tells guys everything they need to know. 

I'm mixed too, lots of my friends are. We're some of the most beautiful and exotic looking people on the planet. Take some time off from dating and get some counseling. When you truly believe in your own value, you will project a more desirable image to others regardless of looks.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Quick run down:

I don't think YOU did anything wrong morally, at least in the first two meetings. You saw a hot guy who was interesting to you. You went for it. There is nothing wrong with that! You even checked that he had a ring. He didn't so good on you there (a lot of professions need to take off their rings to keep their fingers safe, so it wasn't JUST to be a snake).


HE, on the other hand, well...the initial flirting, that's being human. I know I will take a lot of crap for this, but a lot of people want those little ego buffs of people finding you attractive and saying so. It can lead down dark paths, but so can soap operas! First you start with General Hospital, then Days of our Lives and before you know it, the electric company is there turning off the power and your kids were removed by DYFS for malnutrition 

So not being perfect people, I can see where he passes back a light flirt.

BUT...sorry to say, but you were ringing a dinner bell. The number in the helmet...smacks a bit of 'I'm easy. Pick me!' So too did your 'pass my number to any other hot single firemen'. No. Just...no.

You are trying too hard. I'm glad you told him no go, but I am not sure he believes you. After your post about meat, I certainly don't believe you!

You want a mate and you are seriously considering destroying another woman to get it. Don't go there. Karma is a *****.

He will be happy to have sex with you and string you along with divorce talk. He found you hot enough to feed you a line. Take comfort in that fact. You are perfectly acceptable as a partner.

Join a gym. There are a ton of fit men there. Some aren't even gay 

Go to a bowling alley. Lots of men there. Some might even be fit.

If you have a 'fireman' fetish, find out when they have their annual get togethers and put on a low cut top, do up your hair and make up and have at it!

But...first question out of your mouth should be 'are you married?' because your step dad is right. You aren't the only woman who has a thing for firedogs.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> That's really how I feel. I'm insecure. *I'm half black and half Thai, too light to be black and too dark to be Thai.* I grew up in an all caucasian neighborhood, always passed over for my friends. So as confident as I try to look and know I should be, I'm not. This is not the first married man to come on to me. Second to lie about it, but it's like... what am I doing that attracts these men? Is it me? And I'm attracted to them because they are stable financially, handsome, blah blah... so why can't I find men like that who are single? Everyone else in my life does. I feel like something is wrong with me.


I hear ya'. And had a similar upbringing. Also accused by other black people for acting too white and in the midwest that I grew up in, was very obviously black (with all the stereotypes that go with being black in America) to many of the white people there........

I finally realised that instead of trying to "make it work" with people who don't care or at least, who have stake in keeping you on that hamster wheel in search of approval, I started looking and choosing friends who accepted me immediately.

Wanna accuse me of acting too white these days? Well, f^ck you too. 

So my advice to you Dazed is to stop trying to fit in and look for people who immediately think that you fit in. If you have to leave town, go to a big city, go to either coast or even leave the country, then do it. 

You're 25, no dependants, go for it. Ever looked into Peace Corps? I think there are some other government positions for teaching that can take you overseas. My father was telling me that my brother's stepson was teaching English in Austria and South Korea.

And one more thing, about those cookies. I've done that shyte before. It doesn't matter how good or even fresh your cookies are, particularly at the beginning, a man is not going to fall in love with you for your cookies. All he is going to see is woman who is desperate for approval. Save your homemade cookies for established friends who have earned the right to your cookies. And let them get it around as to what a great cook you are.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I suppose, too, you and Tiger Woods could commiserate........ NOT!


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

bravenewworld said:


> Ok to me this is a little crazy town. I wink. My Grandmother winks. My Uncle winks. None of us are disrespectful or prostitutes.
> 
> In my family it's like the thumbs up sign.


I guess we will just accept that we are both crazy.

Wink all you want, I'm just telling you that it won't earn you much respect from males.....


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Op the guy was certainly hitting on you...but not because he sensed your insecurity, he was hitting on you because you are beautiful and alluring. Players like him aren't after the weak, guys like him are alpha and they go after the trophy. Give yourself some credit, take his interest as a compliment. 

Honestly I think you handled it pretty well, sounds like you shut him down after you found out he was married. After you become a little more confident you will get more creative in putting guys like him in their place, something like..."OMG I can't believe you are hitting on me! I was just being friendly, I never date guys TWICE my age!" See there's a little insult that will take a chunk out of his ego. 

As for finding single guys...keep your eyes open and put yourself into the right situations, and don't be afraid to say the first hello.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Cooper said:


> Op the guy was certainly hitting on you...but not because he sensed your insecurity, he was hitting on you because you are beautiful and alluring. Players like him aren't after the weak, guys like him are alpha and they go after the trophy. Give yourself some credit, take his interest as a compliment.
> 
> Honestly I think you handled it pretty well, sounds like you shut him down after you found out he was married. After you become a little more confident you will get more creative in putting guys like him in their place, something like..."OMG I can't believe you are hitting on me! I was just being friendly, I never date guys TWICE my age!" See there's a little insult that will take a chunk out of his ego.
> 
> As for finding single guys...keep your eyes open and put yourself into the right situations, and don't be afraid to say the first hello.


Why try to take a piece out of his 'ego'? I mean, she is directly contradicting herself there and makes herself look pathetic to 'neg' him two seconds after smiling at his stupid joke and putting her hand on his arm.

Yes, say hello. Make them ASK for the number...but stick around so they CAN ask. 

And yes, if I am interested in a girl, I'll even eat Italian food. (Not a fan)


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## bravenewworld (Mar 24, 2013)

DoF said:


> I guess we will just accept that we are both crazy.
> 
> Wink all you want, I'm just telling you that it won't earn you much respect from males.....


Nope, not crazy. Not even a little bit. 

I know plenty of males who respect me. And in my many travels I've never met anyone who takes your view on winking. Opinion does not equal universal truth.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

DoF said:


> I guess we will just accept that we are both crazy.
> 
> Wink all you want, I'm just telling you that it won't earn you much respect from males.....


Wow I never heard anyone say that about winking before! What part of the world do you live in? I think a wink, properly done and properly placed, is incredibily sexy. 

I do think the winking in this case though was just further proof of his jerkdom. 

OP, I bet you are incredibily beautiful. Just don't let yourself get jaded by the dregs of this world. Honestly, your meat analogy was very concerning and I hope you will rethink how you feel about that. Don't stoop to the level of those who have hurt you, rise above it.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

DazedAndConfused25 said:


> Thank you. It's just so weird that they can see right through me. I was shopping with my mom the other day. We shop in different sections since I'm still too short to shop in women's. When I walked up to her, she told me I looked so confident and fierce. People tell me all the time that's how I come off. I just don't understand how these guys can see through that. Idk. It's hard to take time. I've enjoyed being single, but at the same time I've never had a healthy relationship. It's been 10 years of dating wasted on men who are either emotionally or physically abusive. I feel like I don't have time to waste anymore. I know I'm 25, but when you expect to date/be engaged/be married for a while before kids and you want a kid desperately... every decision in my life has been about putting myself in the best position to be a mother. I feel like I should have found Mr. Right two years ago.


Do you think people would tell you that you come off as insecure? Typically people will try to bring you up, so by telling you that you come off as "confident and fierce", it helps to give you a little 'pep in your step' so to speak. I'm not saying that is always true, but it's something to think about. 

Don't look at it as 10 years wasted, but more so 10 years of learning what you don't want, what you won't accept, and so on. Every relationship teaches us something, as long as we're open to learning from those past mistakes. If you come off as desperate(bringing cookies twice to the firehouse), you will attract those same losers. I would stop trying to throw yourself at guys and let the guy "chase" you, too. 

As the saying goes, you will find mr. right when you least expect it. You have to be patient. 



DazedAndConfused25 said:


> I could see that, but I grew up in a different generation/ different culture. This is what winking means to me: fun, friendly, anime culture.
> 
> I would take offense to your insinuation that I am very low on the woman scale except that statement is ignorant and unfounded. Instead, I'll just point out its baselessness and move on.
> 
> ...


I'm the same age as you, but find winking to be weird unless you already know the person. I find a wink from a stranger a bit creepy and off putting.


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## DazedAndConfused25 (Sep 17, 2014)

FormerSelf said:


> This certainly makes sense, ...and I can see how this adds to the pressure. Reminds me of old
> just know that you have the right to be very picky. It is better to be choosy and take you time then to rush out there to alleviate your fears and then regret a very tragic mistake.



You are the second person to say that to me today. I think it's sound advice. I'm going to try to be a little more selective about the guys I date.



bravenewworld said:


> The likely reason they see through you is probably the bolded. Girl, you _thirsty._


I was going to argue with you, but then I realized you're probably right haha. But! The cookies really was a don't judge me on old cookies as a baker. Baking is the one "domestic" thing I can do. I can't clean, I can't cook, but I can bake a storm! 4 day old crowns are a disservice to my skills. That's like eating Chef Colicchio's three day old leftovers. Still good, but not the same! Yeah, I just compared myself to him haha.



JCD said:


> BUT...sorry to say, but you were ringing a dinner bell. The number in the helmet...smacks a bit of 'I'm easy. Pick me!' So too did your 'pass my number to any other hot single firemen'. No. Just...no.
> 
> You are trying too hard. I'm glad you told him no go, but I am not sure he believes you. After your post about meat, I certainly don't believe you!


I guess when you look at it that way, it is trying to hard. I've always been really forward with men. I do a lot of chasing. I'm not a fan of waiting around for something good to happen. I've always been proactive. I'll take a chill pill. And I go to a gym, everyone there is married x.x Which is good. It's my happy place. Don't want no man drama there!



NextTimeAround said:


> You're 25, no dependants, go for it. Ever looked into Peace Corps? I think there are some other government positions for teaching that can take you overseas. My father was telling me that my brother's stepson was teaching English in Austria and South Korea.
> 
> And one more thing, about those cookies. I've done that shyte before. It doesn't matter how good or even fresh your cookies are, particularly at the beginning, a man is not going to fall in love with you for your cookies. All he is going to see is woman who is desperate for approval. Save your homemade cookies for established friends who have earned the right to your cookies. And let them get it around as to what a great cook you are.


I thought about it while I was in college, but two years is such a long commitment. Now, I'm teaching in my dream district so can't leave. I do a lot of international traveling with the family though. Maybe a summer teaching English in Japan or Thailand.

Thank you to everyone else. I know I didn't reply to every post, but I did read them and I have a lot of soul searching to do so I don't rinse and repeat. Especially after being in court this afternoon. He plead not guilty so off to trial...


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## DazedAndConfused25 (Sep 17, 2014)

Cooper said:


> Give yourself some credit, take his interest as a compliment.


Thank you. I needed that.



Anonymous07 said:


> Do you think people would tell you that you come off as insecure? Typically people will try to bring you up, so by telling you that you come off as "confident and fierce", it helps to give you a little 'pep in your step' so to speak. I'm not saying that is always true, but it's something to think about.
> 
> Don't look at it as 10 years wasted, but more so 10 years of learning what you don't want, what you won't accept, and so on. Every relationship teaches us something, as long as we're open to learning from those past mistakes.
> 
> I'm the same age as you, but find winking to be weird unless you already know the person. I find a wink from a stranger a bit creepy and off putting.


My mom is super stereotypically Thai. She's the type to, when I walk in the door, hit me with a, "Wow, you look like s*** today" or "You're really going to walk out of this house looking like that? How are you even my daughter?" I love my mom. She just needs some sensitivity training lol.

True. I've only ever been winked at, other than this guy, by coworkers or friends. So that might have to do with why it doesn't bug me. I think catcalling at me from a car is way more disrespectful than a flirty and/or friendly wink. But maybe because I know I'm obviously not a prostitute.


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## spunkycat08 (Nov 14, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening all
> Innocent flirting can be good fun for all, serious flirting is a big problem if you are in a relationship with someone else.
> 
> The differences are subtle, but I think they exist.
> ...


There is no such thing as innocently flirting in any relationship... committed, engaged or married


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## DazedAndConfused25 (Sep 17, 2014)

I disagree. My Krav instructor is super flirty, but the boundaries were established early on that A) he will always be there for me more as a father figure, B) it's more to raise my confidence,and C) that he loves his wife. So I know when he makes a passing comment about my figure (because I do intentionally wear krav tanks and spandex pants) that it's meant as a compliment not an attempt to get in my pants. Plus, he wife knows and is secure in their relationship/he's always been that way. They are like my second set of parents. I think it just boils down to boundaries. But I know my boundaries are pretty wtf you just checked her out?!


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## DazedAndConfused25 (Sep 17, 2014)

I guess it's like being bi. I see women and find them attractive enough to do things. My mom can see women, acknowledge their beauty, but has zero desire to do things. So innocent flirting versus shame on you, to me, is about intention and boundaries and secrecy.


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## spunkycat08 (Nov 14, 2013)

DazedAndConfused25 said:


> I disagree. My Krav instructor is super flirty, but the boundaries were established early on that A) he will always be there for me more as a father figure, B) it's more to raise my confidence,and C) that he loves his wife. So I know when he makes a passing comment about my figure (because I do intentionally wear krav tanks and spandex pants) that it's meant as a compliment not an attempt to get in my pants. Plus, he wife knows and is secure in their relationship/he's always been that way. They are like my second set of parents. I think it just boils down to boundaries. But I know my boundaries are pretty wtf you just checked her out?!


So you intentionally wear tight clothing to get attention from a married man with whom you stated boundaries have been established. Regardless of the fact that boundaries have been established, that looks like attention seeking behavior. Why the need to seek attention from a married man? Then you literally chased the very flirty fireman.

This is not the type of behavior I would engage in if I was single.

My husband read your reply, and his impression is that going by your behavior you seem to go after men you cannot have.

Since you want to get married some day, how would your future potential boyfriend/future potential fiance feel about the behavior of yours mentioned in your reply if you were still engaging in this behavior? Would he consider you to be potential girlfriend material based on that behavior? Would he want to consider getting involved in a committed relationship with you based on that behavior?


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

spunkycat08 said:


> There is no such thing as innocently flirting in any relationship... committed, engaged or married


:iagree:

In a relationship, you can be friendly and joke around with others, but flirting is a no-no. :nono: Flirting should be reserved for your significant other.


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## DazedAndConfused25 (Sep 17, 2014)

spunkycat08 said:


> So you intentionally wear tight clothing to get attention from a married man with whom you stated boundaries have been established.


Misunderstanding. I see my krav instructor as the father I never had because mine died when I was 4. The tight clothes are for myself. I'm not very confident about a lot, but I know I have a rocking body. Wearing clothes that compliment that make me feel good. And if I was trying to catch anybody's attention, it would be the SINGLE cuties in the muay thai class after my class ends.

I don't want a married man, whether he is in the midst of a divorce or otherwise. I'm more concerned with:
A) The fact that I attract these men. Today, a guy straight up moved his wedding ring from his left hand to his right middle finger when he saw that I noticed it from a distance. He thought I wasn't looking then tried to flirt with me.
B) Why can't I find men like these (minus the cheaty flirty behavior, I mean personable, successful, cute, stable job) who are single?


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

DazedAndConfused25 said:


> I don't want a married man, whether he is in the midst of a divorce or otherwise. I'm more concerned with:
> A) The fact that I attract these men. Today, a guy straight up moved his wedding ring from his left hand to his right middle finger when he saw that I noticed it from a distance. He thought I wasn't looking then tried to flirt with me.
> B) Why can't I find men like these (minus the cheaty flirty behavior, I mean personable, successful, cute, stable job) who are single?


You can find these men, but they are most likely turned off by how you come across as desperate. As said before, you have to learn to love yourself and be okay with who you are. Until then, you'll keep getting the same unwanted results for the men you attract/go out with.


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## spunkycat08 (Nov 14, 2013)

DazedAndConfused25 said:


> Misunderstanding. I see my krav instructor as the father I never had because mine died when I was 4. The tight clothes are for myself. I'm not very confident about a lot, but I know I have a rocking body. Wearing clothes that compliment that make me feel good. And if I was trying to catch anybody's attention, it would be the SINGLE cuties in the muay thai class after my class ends.
> 
> I don't want a married man, whether he is in the midst of a divorce or otherwise. I'm more concerned with:
> A) The fact that I attract these men. Today, a guy straight up moved his wedding ring from his left hand to his right middle finger when he saw that I noticed it from a distance. He thought I wasn't looking then tried to flirt with me.
> B) Why can't I find men like these (minus the cheaty flirty behavior, I mean personable, successful, cute, stable job) who are single?


Ok...

But this is what you stated in one of your replies...

because I do intentionally wear krav tanks and spandex pants...

So *exactly *why do you intentionally wear that type of clothing around him?

Because the definition of intentionally is deliberately; on purpose.

So exactly why do you wear tight clothing around him on purpose? Why do you deliberately do this?


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## spunkycat08 (Nov 14, 2013)

Anonymous07 said:


> You can find these men, but they are most likely turned off by how you come across as desperate. As said before, you have to learn to love yourself and be okay with who you are. Until then, you'll keep getting the same unwanted results for the men you attract/go out with.


In order to attract a decent guy, you have to act in an appropriate manner. Giving off a desperate vibe is a repellant to decent guys.

You have to be comfortable in your own skin to attract a decent guy.


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## DazedAndConfused25 (Sep 17, 2014)

spunkycat08 said:


> Ok...
> 
> But this is what you stated in one of your replies...
> 
> ...


I can't help but feel like you are determined to prove that I am or have already decided in your head that I am some sort of trashy woman that tries to intentionally seduce married men. But the teacher in me wants to believe that you are still just misunderstanding. So I will say what I said (having answered this already) in different, simpler words.

I wear form fitting clothes because I know I look good in them. It makes ME feel good. I enjoy getting compliments like, "Wow, your waist is so tiny!" and "You're so small, I could just carry you around everywhere!" from men and women, friends or not.

Why do I wear tight clothes to krav? I wear my gym's apparel to every class. This consists of a logo-ed krav tank top and a logo-ed pair of spandex shorts that are not suitable to wear in public outside of exercising because of their length. There isn't AC in the gym. It gets hot quick. If I do wear pants, they are also spandex. So while I do wear work out appropriate clothes, it is an added perk that (as mentioned above) I feel attractive in them and there are single guys at my gym. Most are married, but there is the occasional single guy here and there.

Now, yes all of my clothes in general fit nicely and show off my curves/ waist, butt, and legs. Do I show butt cheek? No. Do I show cleavage? No. I am a second grade teacher in a nationally ranked school district. I am always very aware of my public image because it reflects on my school even when I am off work or going to a bar.


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## spunkycat08 (Nov 14, 2013)

DazedAndConfused25 said:


> I can't help but feel like you are determined to prove that I am or have already decided in your head that I am some sort of trashy woman that tries to intentionally seduce married men. But the teacher in me wants to believe that you are still just misunderstanding. So I will say what I said (having answered this already) in different, simpler words.
> 
> I wear form fitting clothes because I know I look good in them. It makes ME feel good. I enjoy getting compliments like, "Wow, your waist is so tiny!" and "You're so small, I could just carry you around everywhere!" from men and women, friends or not.
> 
> ...


Let's not kid ourselves: Most women know exactly what effect this has on a man regardless of 1) the man's relationship status and 2) their occupations.

This is for anyone, male or female.

If you have self confidence, then there is no reason for you to wear clothing that shows off your body. You would feel confident wearing anything, and it would show. But the self confidence has to come from inside of you. What you wear does not make you feel confident... including tight clothing. It is how you feel inside **your inner self** that makes you feel confident.

So there should be no reason to wear clothing that shows off your body to get compliments. The compliments should come from how you carry yourself in what you are wearing... no matter what you are wearing.


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## DazedAndConfused25 (Sep 17, 2014)

Oh, trust me. I feel just as beautiful in my hoodies and sweatpants with tangled hair in a ponytail. But I know when I'm tying up my hair in the mirror before I walk out the door to go to krav or slip into a cute, fitted dress that I look good to me. If that "does something" to a guy in a relationship, that's his and his wife's issue. Not mine. If you've never stepped out of the shower or put on an outfit that just complimented you to the point you thought, "Damn, I look good," then I feel really sorry for you. I'm not about to apologize for only buying clothes that flatter my body. If you think that makes me trashy, sounds to me like I'm not the only one here who needs a bit self re-evaluation.


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## SunnyWife (Aug 6, 2014)

DazedAndConfused25 said:


> Oh, trust me. I feel just as beautiful in my hoodies and sweatpants with tangled hair in a ponytail. But I know when I'm tying up my hair in the mirror before I walk out the door to go to krav or slip into a cute, fitted dress that I look good to me. If that "does something" to a guy in a relationship, that's his and his wife's issue. Not mine. If you've never stepped out of the shower or put on an outfit that just complimented you to the point you thought, "Damn, I look good," then I feel really sorry for you. I'm not about to apologize for only buying clothes that flatter my body. If you think that makes me trashy, sounds to me like I'm not the only one here who needs a bit self re-evaluation.


Everyone is just pointing out that dressing like this is probably attracting the wrong kind of attention, which from your comments has been happening to you and you are wondering why. We are just trying to help you.

I have been where you are right now. My first marriage (when I was 19) was to an abusive husband. I left him and had a slew of lousy re-bound relationships. One day some lady at work pointed out to me that I had to improve myself and take some time off from dating. By this time I was 24-25 years old. Right when I took this time off from dating is when I met the guy I am married to now. Knowing what I now know about relationships, my Hubby & I would not have worked out had I been my old self. It is so true what everyone here is telling you. I understand that you feel upset right now and that is very normal. Please know that we are here to help, not judge or hurt you.


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## DazedAndConfused25 (Sep 17, 2014)

This is a picture from that day. I had a black shirt on and jeans.

The next is a dress I have in 5 different colors and usually wear leggings under with flats. Again, pretty typical outfit.

And another typical outfit, nice blouse with jeans. Still flattering without excessive skin showing. 

If these outfits scream that I want married men or abusive men or "bottom of the barrel" men as my step dad calls them then I honestly give up on dating. Or stepping outside of my house ever again.


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## DazedAndConfused25 (Sep 17, 2014)

And this is what I typically wear to krav/to work out which is the only time I show that much skin unless I'm at the beach or pool. And I don't have these creeper problems at my gym. So I really gave to think it's not my clothes unless I'm missing some provocative message in my day wear which, at this point, wouldn't surprise me. I just want to give up... I feel really defeated


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

You are a beautiful woman just as I thought. I don't know what you can do to squelch the vibe that you are probably giving out that you are available and really want a man. I do think though that it might help to just step out of the dating scene for a time. Dress in a way that pleases you only without thought to what a man may think (not that those pics look ****ty - they don't). Dont let your mind wander to men that you think would fit the bill of what you are looking for. Just get the mindset that you are not dating right now. If a man flirts with you, be kind but let them know you are not interested. 

I would also again like to bring up, at the risk of it offending you because I am truly not trying to do that. Your attitude toward married men's wives needs adjusting. Looking at them as having the problem and not you is probably going to come back to bite you. I would feel nothing but sympathy for the wife of a married man who acts inappropriately toward other women.

ETA: You might want to cover up your gym clothes when you are outside of the gym.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

DazedAndConfused25 said:


> That's really how I feel. I'm insecure. I'm half black and half Thai, too light to be black and too dark to be Thai. I grew up in an all caucasian neighborhood, always passed over for my friends. So as confident as I try to look and know I should be, I'm not. This is not the first married man to come on to me. Second to lie about it, but it's like... *what am I doing that attracts these men? * Is it me? And I'm attracted to them because they are stable financially, handsome, blah blah... so why can't I find men like that who are single? Everyone else in my life does. I feel like something is wrong with me.


Short answer: you're 25 and exotic. Men, including (probably especially...) older married ones, are going to hit on you.

Longer answer: The above combined with your insecurity. Insecurity ALWAYS shows through, and it presents a vulnerability, particularly to the type of men you DON'T want. They know how to target the women who they have the best chance with (and don't be insulted by that). But the fact is, this guy DID get your head spinning, and even though you are stating that you would never do anything with him, you're still here, questioning it all. And you wouldn't be the only one. BUT, the women who ARE secure, would turn around, walk away, and never even think twice about this guy again. They'd think he's a d-bag, and that's that.

Some guys spend years honing their game and are good at it. Some just have a natural radar. What you're describing this guy as, he sounds like he knows what he's doing, and he's had success at it. You were targeted at some point, and you even went to him. He strung you along for a little while, until you eventually asked the inevitable, to which he did not lie. But he then kept you on the string by dropping little nuggets here and there (most firefighters get divorced. Would you date a divorced man? etc.)

So in a nutshell, it's you, but it's also not you, if that makes sense. But the bottom line is, expect this to happen repeatedly with other guys. Whether it's body language, verbal, or anything else, you gave off a vibe to this guy in which he thought he'd have a good chance, and he was partly correct.

You may learn, in the future, to bring up the marriage thing right off the bat. You don't have to point blank ask somebody within minutes of meeting them, but you can say things like "I can't believe you're not married" or something along those lines that'll force his hand (if he's honest) before you get to stage two.

And for what it's worth, I bet you he WAS there on the day that you showed up with cookies. It's part of the game..


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

DazedAndConfused25 said:


> And this is what I typically wear to krav/to work out which is the only time I show that much skin unless I'm at the beach or pool. And I don't have these creeper problems at my gym. So I really gave to think it's not my clothes unless I'm missing some provocative message in my day wear which, at this point, wouldn't surprise me. I just want to give up... I feel really defeated


Your photo's are looking good and would give no problem in my opinion. Great!

Your description before, does, it gave a more 'way too hot' impression, that would explain the reactions.

I got the impression of you wearing this:










Which is way off for something like Krav Maga.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

thefam said:


> You are a beautiful woman just as I thought. I don't know what you can do to squelch the vibe that you are probably giving out that you are available and really want a man. I do think though that it might help to just step out of the dating scene for a time. Dress in a way that pleases you only without thought to what a man may think (not that those pics look ****ty - they don't). Dont let your mind wander to men that you think would fit the bill of what you are looking for. Just get the mindset that you are not dating right now. If a man flirts with you, be kind but let them know you are not interested.
> 
> I would also again like to bring up, at the risk of it offending you because I am truly not trying to do that. *Your attitude toward married men's wives needs adjusting. Looking at them as having the problem and not you is probably going to come back to bite you.* I would feel nothing but sympathy for the wife of a married man who acts inappropriately toward other women.
> 
> ETA: You might want to cover up your gym clothes when you are outside of the gym.


Yes, us married women stick together.

And do not be surprised if the wife should crush you like a fly under the circumstances. (I certainly would....)


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