# Ladies take on this please



## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

I'm trying this forum again because I seem to get great feedback. As you may (or may not remember) spouse and I are trying to recover from EA 7 months ago. MC going well, feeling closer etc. However in the back of my mind some of her story about OM is gnawing at me. I strongly feel she isn't giving me the entire story on a couple of particular items. I have asked her repeatedly about it but continue to get same answer. Rather than tell you the situation and have you give whether you believe her or not, I am asking this: things are progressing. She is not going to tell me anything different than in the past despite my disbelief on two items. How relevant is it at this point to keep ruminating about whether I'm getting the truth or not. I am convinced I am not, but all she is going to do is tell me same thing which _could be true but is really hard to believe. Is it time for me to let it go being its been 7 months ago. I get answers like well if you can't believe her stop the relationship- okay fine- but what if she is telling me everything? Any advice on how to proceed is appreciated. It's gnawing at me almost non stop - but again, maybe she has told me everything as unbelievable as it may seem to me. Here is the catch though: my history with her has always been "if we can get over this one problem we will be happy". Of course it's always something she needs to do and never happens in my eyes. So part two of my question is this: I know something took place with OM. She told me details of encounters etc. that I would NOT know if she hadn't told me. I believe there are additional unsaid things despite my questions. We seem to be doing fairly well. Any advice on this? Let go of it as it was 7 months ago? Pursue it- but how and to what end? Will it only make things worse? Helpful input appreciated._


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tell her you need her to take a polygraph or you just can't continue as is.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

If you can let it go then let it go.

If you can't then the polygraph is probably the only thing that would convince you she's truthful.

We do tend to give "truth detection" far more credit that it deserves though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

I think I'm looking for permission (from myself) to let it go. Am I a fool if I let it go? I feel in some weird way if she's still lying that she "got away" with her affair with no consequences. That is the real source of my not wanting to let it go. Does that make any sense.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

You never forget these things. Once in your memory they stay there forever, it’s how our memory works, it’s what its designed to do. It does what it says on the packet.

So lets say you now convince yourself to put it behind you. Eventually it’ll go into your long term memory simply because you’re not ruminating over it every singly day of your life. Our long term memory is like a dusty folder on a dusty shelf in a cupboard. It’s dusty because it’s unused.

Now say your wife betrays you yet again in the future. Part of the recovery (if it’s possible) from her new betrayal will be that you’ll go into that dusty old cupboard and look in the dusty files on the dusty shelves!

Another term for not resolving issues and conflicts at hand is “Stuffing it under the carpet”.

I reckon you must fully resolve the issues you have at hand now, otherwise they’ll raise their head down stream. Don’t bury things, that’s like ignoring a cancer that just grows and becomes 100 times worse.


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## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

AFEH said:


> You never forget these things. Once in your memory they stay there forever, it’s how our memory works, it’s what its designed to do. It does what it says on the packet.
> 
> So lets say you now convince yourself to put it behind you. Eventually it’ll go into your long term memory simply because you’re not ruminating over it every singly day of your life. Our long term memory is like a dusty folder on a dusty shelf in a cupboard. It’s dusty because it’s unused.
> 
> ...


All points well taken. However you say "stuffing under the carpet". I have brought them up many times which indicates not stuffing under the carpet on my part- and she says she is telling me the truth. So am I at the point of either believing it - or not once and for all so to speak? Lie detector ain't gonna happen- counselor won't have any of that in our situation.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

what's your gut instinct? it's probably right, mine was


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Bodhitree said:


> I think I'm looking for permission (from myself) to let it go. Am I a fool if I let it go? I feel in some weird way if she's still lying that she "got away" with her affair with no consequences. That is the real source of my not wanting to let it go. Does that make any sense.


It makes perfect sense.

You seem to be at a point where you either have to push yourself to accept what you know as the final truth or shake the foundations of the R you`ve built so far in order to have the leverage to go after the "truth" which may or may not even exist and it may or may not be possible to gain that "truth" by undermining your relationship.

Going after more truth is a serious risk to what you`ve accomplished so far with little likelihood of satisfactory closure.

To my mind your best bet is to accept what you have as "good enough" and keep building on your R.

I`m not in your position though so I don`t really know how possible that is for you.
Only you can say.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Bodhitree said:


> All points well taken. However you say "stuffing under the carpet". I have brought them up many times which indicates not stuffing under the carpet on my part- and she says she is telling me the truth. So am I at the point of either believing it - or not once and for all so to speak? Lie detector ain't gonna happen- counselor won't have any of that in our situation.


But if you don’t resolve it to your satisfaction but move on regardless, that will be stuffing it under the carpet. It’s difficult to offer any more advice without knowing the actual details.


I think the really big thing is that you’ve been betrayed and you feel she’s got away with it. That may be to do with a specific issue or the whole package.

Betrayal is a nasty business. Your wife has betrayed you and should come clean. She should accept responsibility for her failure and apologise in ways you feel she means it.


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## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

AFEH said:


> But if you don’t resolve it to your satisfaction but move on regardless, that will be stuffing it under the carpet. It’s difficult to offer any more advice without knowing the actual details.
> 
> 
> I think the really big thing is that you’ve been betrayed and you feel she’s got away with it. That may be to do with a specific issue or the whole package.
> ...


Letting go isn't stuffing it- letting go of it is releasing it from under the carpet if you will. Agreed betrayal is nasty business. She has apologized to me multiple times telling me " I want to be with you if you will still have me". I really think she means it because her actions over the past months especially show it- she left good paying job where OM was, gone to a lot of MC, says she loves me often, doesn't get mad at me when I need to talk like she used to - and on and on. This is part of my dilemma. All this she is doing and I'm focused on some items that I feel she may not have fully disclosed. This is my dilemma right now.


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## Verushkita (Apr 30, 2012)

bodhitree - i'm almost in the same boat as you. it's hard. i don't have any true advise for you because i'm very conflicted too. my husband was starting an EA, he said nothing PA, but he came home the next day which he does every now and then. he swears nothing happened, that he told me everything. he only told me because i had gathered some information, texts mainly. we too are in marriage counseling, and i'm trying to so hard to repair our marriage. down the line, we had become emotionally disconnected and distant, but co-existing for the sakes of our new baby.

i can't shake my suspicions sometimes, for the most part, we are both trying and doing a good job becoming closer - intimately and emotionally but there are times, when i start to question everything. 

it's not healthy, but i don't know how to stop?


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## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

tacoma said:


> It makes perfect sense.
> 
> You seem to be at a point where you either have to push yourself to accept what you know as the final truth or shake the foundations of the R you`ve built so far in order to have the leverage to go after the "truth" which may or may not even exist and it may or may not be possible to gain that "truth" by undermining your relationship.
> 
> ...


Tacoma: an absolutely perfect analysis of where I am right now. I want the agonizing over this to stop and quite frankly ready to move on. Your post helps a lot. I still think I have a history of sabotaging (just like her) our happiness. We are learning in MC a lot about our dynamics surrounding how we each have trouble "just being happy" with each other.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Bodhitree said:


> Tacoma: an absolutely perfect analysis of where I am right now. I want the agonizing over this to stop and quite frankly ready to move on. Your post helps a lot. I still think I have a history of sabotaging (just like her) our happiness. We are learning in MC a lot about our dynamics surrounding how we each have trouble "just being happy" with each other.


One more thing to think about and please do try to falsify this in your mind in order to determine whether you`re sincerely guilty of it or not.

When I`ve been betrayed or manipulated by a woman in the past I`ve often become "hyper-paranoid".

The mantra around here is "Trust your gut" but I`m telling you once your whole world and security has been upended by the one you trusted implicitly the time to "trust your gut" is over.
Your gut is in far too much pain and turmoil to be picking up on reality alone.
This is the time to attempt to be as objectively mentally rational as possible, yes I know it sounds impossible but must be attempted.

Your intuition is leaning towards a bias of mistrust and everything can seem like a potential lie when you really do already have the whole truth.

Don`t let possible paranoia throw you.

I`m not saying your feeling of still being lied to is wrong.
I`m just saying you are very susceptible to believing everything`s a lie.

Take some time and chew on your feelings and compare them to reality as objectively as you can.
You don`t have to figure this whole damn thing out right here and now.

Work it around your head, analyze her actions, and keep up with your R.

You may find that these feelings of mistrust over this one specific point aren`t really important in a month or so.
You may also find you can`t go on without "knowing" and those feelings are everything.

Point is, there`s no rush right now.
Take some time.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You can weigh knowing for sure against her ACTIONS post-DD. Is she everything you want in a wife? Is she making life good for you? Then let it go and move on. 

If she acts selfishly or petutantly, don't let go.


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## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

tacoma said:


> One more thing to think about and please do try to falsify this in your mind in order to determine whether you`re sincerely guilty of it or not.
> 
> When I`ve been betrayed or manipulated by a woman in the past I`ve often become "hyper-paranoid".
> 
> ...


Tacoma: Once again an excellent post. I think your point about "mistrust bias" is well taken. You are right- everything about the affair is questionable in my mind- even things she has told me that match up with phone records, texts etc. with OM. I've made a point recently to watch her and she really is coming around to me - deep hugs, kisses when home from work, talking about things she wouldn't talk about before, going to MC , opening up a little more. Its hard because I think she is changing and I'm still in suspicious mode like you say. My big question focuses on whether she had plans to spend the night with OM last fall. I know it didn't happen because that is when I proved via phone records that something was amiss. So , I'm saying I KNOW she was going to meet him and she is saying NO she wasn't. Is it irrelevant because it didn't happen anyway? She ended up coming home that night but I'm convinced she had plan to spend night with him. Anyway thoughts welcome.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Bodhitree,

Forgive me but I don`t recall your exact situation right now.
I`ll have a look at your posts after I type this to get up to speed.

I was drawn to this post because I can relate to the uncertainty your having.

From what you`ve said here your wife seems pretty committed to making it work.
Keep that in mind.



> My big question focuses on whether she had plans to spend the night with OM last fall. I know it didn't happen because that is when I proved via phone records that something was amiss. So , I'm saying I KNOW she was going to meet him and she is saying NO she wasn't. Is it irrelevant because it didn't happen anyway? She ended up coming home that night but I'm convinced she had plan to spend night with him. Anyway thoughts welcome.


Ok, lets go through this with a rational deduction because at this point unless she is lying and does admit it a rational deduction is all you`re going to get. You may want to give some thought as to whether or not you can live with that.

The problem is that you don`t believe her when she tells you she never planned to spend the night with her OM.
She`s adamant she never had this plan.

For a moment work from the position that she is definitely lying.
Ask yourself what she would gain from lying?
What would she lose by being caught in this lie?

Is this lie worse by any degree than any of the truth that she has admitted to?
If this one lie is lesser to the lies she has come clean with you can assume it`s not a lie because it won`t help her cause.
In fact holding onto this lie would harm her cause more than help it and she`s got to be aware of that fact.
Making your suspicions less credible.

If this lie is about an action that is a deal breaker worse than any other lie she`s come clean about then she has a great incentive to hold to it.
Holding on to this lie would help her cause in her mind.
Making your suspicions more credible.

Think about it.


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## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Bodhitree,
> 
> Forgive me but I don`t recall your exact situation right now.
> I`ll have a look at your posts after I type this to get up to speed.
> ...


Okay Tacoma- now we are getting somewhere. She has always denied any sort of PA. The OM is much older and not a physically attractive person. The nights she was out late (there were three of them all together) I was suspecting something was weird. But she came home each time (even though lying about who she was with etc.). When she got home, I made a point to observe her each time- no cologne or other scents (including sex, not to be inappropriate) of another man. No scent like taking a shower recently etc. Each time she got back she slept with me in our bed which she doesn't always do. I'm thinking she could have slept on couch with no suspicion because she regularly did that. But she slept with me. Anyway, my point is that IF she had PA, it would likely be a deal breaker. I just have a hard time believing that it didn't happen. BUT she told me who and where she was- couldn't she have made up other lies that covered it up more and were less suspicious? So I assume those parts ARE true because they seem to match phone records etc. Not sure if I am making sense, but if I did uncover that she did have PA I would likely have been done. Or if she did have plans to spend night with him, that would translate into PA for sure. But again, she denies he was involved with her stayover plans at all. She indicates she just wanted "time away" to gather her thoughts. She made hotel reservations in another city which I knew about because we talked about it (before I knew of OM for sure). Says she was so distraught over our relationship because she thought we were done. Sorry for long post.


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## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Bodhitree,
> 
> Forgive me but I don`t recall your exact situation right now.
> I`ll have a look at your posts after I type this to get up to speed.
> ...


Tacoma: One more item- I do not think she would know that a PA would be a deal breaker for me- so lets add a little more uncertainty!! I've never told her if that PA happened I would be done, but for me it probably would mean that. Part of my struggle as well. Also, she would probably be afraid of me telling family members etc. although I have promised to her that I would keep it between her and I. She knows I keep my word.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Bodhitree said:


> Tacoma: One more item- I do not think she would know that a PA would be a deal breaker for me- so lets add a little more uncertainty!! I've never told her if that PA happened I would be done, but for me it probably would mean that. Part of my struggle as well. Also, she would probably be afraid of me telling family members etc. although I have promised to her that I would keep it between her and I. She knows I keep my word.


Most people live their life through projection. In that they project their very own values and beliefs onto others and think they have the same ones.


In this case assume that if you had a PA that would be a deal breaker for your wife. If that is the case, then that’s why she wont tell you.


She’s maybe judging you by her standards, values and beliefs, not yours. She maybe thinks if she tells you the truth you will leave her, no matter what you say.


Sometimes we just have to suck these things up and be philosophical about them. In that although its not satisfactory for you, you accept it calmly and without anger, understanding that failure and disappointment are a part of life.


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## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

AFEH

"Sometimes we just have to suck these things up and be philosophical about them. In that although its not satisfactory for you, you accept it calmly and without anger, understanding that failure and disappointment are a part of life."

Thanks for your thoughts a great post. But which direction do you mean by your quote? Do you mean accept the situation as is and move on trying to reconcile, or accept it and leave the relationship? Thanks


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Bodhitree said:


> I think I'm looking for permission (from myself) to let it go. Am I a fool if I let it go? I feel in some weird way if she's still lying that she "got away" with her affair with no consequences. That is the real source of my not wanting to let it go. Does that make any sense.


Once someone has lied it makes it hard to believe anything and you second guess everything, your feelings are totally normal to feel she has left something out, even though she really may not have. I say if you cannot let it go, (I am not a fan of polygraphs) ask her to start from the beginning and retell all the details and see if anything new emerges or changes. (usually liars have a hard time telling the exact same story over and over again, it's in the details where the lie occurs). Or let it go. I do not think you are a fool. You know she had an EA, she told you most of it, even if she did leave some out... maybe it is better you do not know. You are working on the marriage together and moving forward, you can try to accept that. I do not think you are a fool if you let go of a nagging feeling... 
Let me explain why. Sometimes paranoia replaces our gut. Inititally something starts as a gut feeling but then our brain takes over and we overthink it and associate it with the "gut" feeling and thus think we are having the same feeling, when really it is our brain focused on it and releasing similar chemicals. Or you could go the poly route... but they are not fail proof, she could fail and still be telling the truth, or pass and still be lying.


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## Hank567 (Apr 23, 2012)

Here's another question to ask yourself. Are you worried about what happened in the past, or are you worried about what might happen in the future?

If you've made the decision to stay in your marriage and work on things, and you're only worried about what happened in the past, that's one thing. If you're worried something might happen again, that's quite another.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

I say make the choice to let it go.


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