# Wanting to close and open relationship... help!



## Different (Jul 31, 2014)

I suppose like most others on here I’m in need of some advice. I’ve never posted on a forum before and my situation may be a little different than most couples. Sorry, this might be a bit of read… but I really need and appreciate any advice.

I have been married for 4 years now and together with my wife off and on since I was 20 years old. I am now 35. We have two boys, aged 4 and 2. We struggle with finances like many others, but are not in dire straits when it comes to that. She is a stay at home mom and our kids are very high energy, which is very stressful for her. I understand how hard it is for her and try to be supportive, but to be honest I am not the best in that department. I wouldn’t say I am bad at it either though. Despite not seeing completely eye to eye when it comes to parenting, I try to respect her decisions and am not demanding at all with my opinions.

This is not where our problems lies though…

In our twenties we were off and on and had a mutually agreed upon open relationship. We both had “relationships” (or whatever you want to call them) with other people. Its not like we slept around like crazy, but we did have a few other people in our lives at different times. I get that many people might not understand that, but it worked for us. We totally got each other and had the “best friend” relationship that many people seek. We are different personality types but on the same wave length, same thoughts on life, religion, social views, etc. We got along great!

However, now that we are in our mid 30’s with 2 kids, my views have changed as well as hers.

Me… basically I don’t want an open relationship anymore. I’ve come to a point in my life where I want to raise my family and be committed to each other for the sake of our family.

Her… despite being super friendly and outgoing, she used to be very private and kept to herself (not a lot of friends). She had depression issues so that probably contributed to it. Now that we have kids, she has made an effort to go out and make friends and she has a ton now, which is great. However, she has also reconnected to an old male friend from high school and a new guy she just happen to meet. This was about a year ago when things were ok and we never discussed ending the “open” portion of our relationship. Since then she is really close to her old friend and spends lots of time with him. I’m not concerned about them “hooking up” because he’s gay and in a relationship, but she has become so close to him that I feel that I am no longer the best friend and he has taken my place. Thats problem #1.

The other guy she met is where my other problem lies. She has been intimate with this guy and I don’t want that anymore in our relationship. I brought this up with her a few times and she got mad at me basically saying how can I change that in our relationship when its been like that for so long. I explained to her that being in our mid-30’s with kids is a lot different than being care free in our 20’s. People mature, people’s opinions change. I told her she has changed as well, being more open and making lots of friends. She agrees that opinions change.
It has now gotten to a point where the whole dynamic of our relationship is not the same. We are not so close anymore, we don’t share as much with each other, we are closed off. We previously shared EVERYTHING with each other, completely 100% open with each other with no trust issues whatsoever. I now find myself not trusting her. When she goes out I wonder if she is telling me the truth. I worry about her leaving me for someone else. It now consumes me to the point where I don’t want to deal with it anymore. If she doesn’t want to be committed then I will move on and find someone who does. Everyone deserves to be happy but it seems we just have different views now.

The only thing that keeps me in the relationship at this point is that we have two young boys who I just can’t fathom not seeing every morning. I don’t want that for them and I am willing to sacrifice for the sake of keeping my family together. I feel that she should sacrifice as well though and we should try to find a happy medium. It hasn’t been going well though and I am starting to lose hope that we can make this work. The longer it goes on the farther apart I feel we get.

At the end of the day, if we are both not happy and it puts a strain on the family life, is it better to move on? Should we not give up so easy though? Is this just a rough patch? Should I just try to accept that our relationship is an open one?

The problem has not been going on for a very long time (less than a year), but its so stressful for me, I think about it all the time. Its not pleasant and I am not getting any younger. I don’t want to tough this out for another 2, 3, 4 years just to end up separating anyway. Its easier for her because she gets to continue the relationship how she wants, but my displeasure is now straining her as well.

At the end of the day, I just feel like I am not that important to her anymore. I am not her #1 anymore. Well… the kids are #1 now, but I don’t feel like am even #2. I could keep going but I’ll leave it at that. Thanks for reading.


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## TheWon% (Jul 30, 2014)

In an open relationship there is a division of control, each person has free reign so to speak. In a typical monogamous relationship, each partner to a degree hands half of their control to their partner, this is the beautiful equation of that type of relationship. 

Is it possible that now being older you feel like you cannot equally find another girlfriend? Because it doesn't look like she's willing to give up the boyfriend, not even for the kids sake as you are trying to explain it to her. But is it really for the kids sake? because admittedly your relationship has been open for the duration and you've had the kids.....

Sit down and get honest with what the real issues are here (not doubting your originally stated ones, but encouraging you to step back and critically observe them) Mirror her, get a attractive new girlfriend of your liking, see if that changes how you feel. If not sit down and let her know you're no longer comfortable with the current arrangement and are willing to do what's need to change it, with or without her consent if need be. This is sort of like smoking, the best way to stop is never to start, so you've got your work cut out for you. I wish you the best of luck, I truly hope this works out for you.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Don't apologize for having been in an open relationship. TAM is against the idea in general. This is not the forum n which the majority accept the idea. In fact, even open marriage websites warn that is risky, unless you are really in very healthy relationship.

You are not in an open relationship anymore because you no longer accept it, but you have not communicated it to you wife clearly. Also, since you no longer feel close to her, the terms of the open marriage have been violated. A successful non-monogamous couple always put their spouses security first. Emotional and physical relationships with others are secondary.

How can you change the situation? Do you want your wife to fall back in love with you? You need to pursue her. Words might not be the best way. Get her attention.

One of the debates on TAM is about self improvement. If you quit a bad habit but don't mention it to your wife, say, for example, drinking too much beer on weekends, would she notice?

Neediness is not attractive. 

How has your wife grown as person in her 30s?


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

do you just want her to stop seeing this one other guy, or in general quit having an open marriage?

If it is just the one guy, you can try to establish some new boundary rules. Like you each get a veto over whatever partner the other wants to try, and you can only sleep with a new partner 4 times, etc. 

But it sounds more like she might have strong emotional feelings for this other guy. That IS the problem with an open marriage. Hard to get that toothpaste back into the bottle. Communications with her is the first step. Maybe some Marriage counseling?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good afternoon Different
While I have not moral objections to open relationships, I find from talking to people that in practice they often don't work out well.

I think all you can do at this point is to try to have a serious heart to heart. Make it clear that is isn't her "fault" you both agreed to this, but that now you have changed and it isn't OK with you any more. You are sorry, but you can't help the way you feel, and you can't be happy in this sort of relationship any longer. You hope she will change her mind, but you understand if she wants to continue the way she has been - but not with you.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

You pulled a bait and switch on her, and she's not down for monogamy. Pretty simple.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> You pulled a bait and switch on her, and she's not down for monogamy. Pretty simple.


How do you figure? A bait and switch is when someone fakes a characteristic in order to trap someone and then changes to his/her true nature. In this case, the OP naturally evolved in matters of relationships. Now if he was always a monogamous person who faked being into open relationships to hook his wife, and then immediately pulled the rug out from under her after the wedding, that would be a bait and switch.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)




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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Different said:


> ....
> 
> At the end of the day, if we are both not happy and it puts a strain on the family life,* is it better to move on?*
> 
> ...


Ya, in this case it is better to move on.

If you're not into the lifestyle anymore, you don't just "put up with it". You end it and move on. The kids will be fine. Try for split custody.

This isn't just a "rough patch"...this is some serious stuff, you both created this mess. You are now changing the dynamics of the relationship, but she's not interested in that. 

Right now, all you can do is tell her you can't do this "open" lifestyle anymore, and either she's on-board with you and monogamy, or you move your stuff into the spare bedroom or basement, file for divorce, and ask that she be as discrete with her lovers as possible until you guys finalize the pending divorce and division of assets.

180 and gauge the reaction/ her actions.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

I understood that for a committed couple to stay in the lifestyle it had to be of mutual consent. If one wanted out, it had to end. No ifs, ands, or butts. So where's the commitment now? I guess that was not discussed before hand. It seems if you want the commitment of monogamy, you'll have to find another woman that agrees with you.


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

Probably Marriage Counseling (MC) would be in order. 

Of course if the bottom line is you want a closed marriage and she won't drop the boyfriend, well...

If push comes to shove do you think she'd ditch the OM if it was a requirement to stay married to you?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

While it may not be a "bait and switch", it seems that both of them have changed. And if one of them is no longer feeling like the relationship is meeting their needs, the options are pretty limited if the other spouse isn't willing to bend. In that case, the inly option may be to split up. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

murphy5 said:


> do you just want her to stop seeing this one other guy, or in general quit having an open marriage?
> 
> If it is just the one guy, you can try to establish some new boundary rules. Like you each get a veto over whatever partner the other wants to try, and you can only sleep with a new partner 4 times, etc.
> 
> But it sounds more like she might have strong emotional feelings for this other guy. That IS the problem with an open marriage. Hard to get that toothpaste back into the bottle. Communications with her is the first step. Maybe some Marriage counseling?


I'm wondering this too - it seems that the emotional intimacy that she shared with you may be going to this other guy now. And I don't know how you fix that. There don't seem to have been any rules in place that would have prevented that.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Why are you no longer close with her? Did it start with her latest boyfriend or was it happening before?

I really don't know what the heck you're supposed to do now. On the one hand it's totally not fair that you want to change this and are basically forcing it on her. On the other hand it isn't fair that she's ignoring your wishes and not putting you first any more.

Is her stopping the extramarital sex completely the ONLY way to satisfy you here?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Clarification.
She slept with not gay man in the past or
She slept with him recently?


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Different, please clarify: You say that you had an open relationship and were on-and-off while in your twenties,. But you only married at age 31. Did you not discuss the open relationship question when taking the marriage step, or did you both just make an unspoken assumption that the old rules would continue to apply?


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## Different (Jul 31, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> A successful non-monogamous couple always put their spouses security first. Emotional and physical relationships with others are secondary.


Thanks you all for the advice. I wasn't quite sure what to expect coming on here. Was expecting some heat for our lifestyle to be honest, but its been really positive and helpful reading these replies.

The above quote hit home for me and I feel she is not putting my security first. I've pretty much decided that I am going to tell her we need to put some rules in place if we want to continue our relationship. If she is not on board with that then I am going to move on.

We have a friend of ours who is also in a somewhat open relationship, but they have rules in place to ensure no ones feelings or insecurities are damaged. I think that is a happy medium that I am hoping we can both agree on.


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## Different (Jul 31, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> Why are you no longer close with her? Did it start with her latest boyfriend or was it happening before?


I'm not sure what the answer to the first question is. I don't think its any one thing. First off, I totally understand the being a stay at home mom to two super energetic boys puts major stress on her> So thats not helping.

Her new old friend has become really close to her and I think she confides in him a lot now. That's another.

The stress of the situation we are in has maybe pushed her and I both away. Put it all together and we just aren't that close any more.

Its been brewing and getting worse over the course of about 1 year.


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## inquizitivemind (Jul 16, 2013)

I think that you need to be completely open and honest with your wife about how you feel. You need to explain to her that you aren't comfortable with the open relationship any more. Furthermore, you MISS being close to your wife. Have you actually told her that you miss her? That can mean a lot to someone if they actually really care for you.

I think once you are completely honest that you can tell a lot from her reaction. If she gets angry, ask her why? And not just, you can't change the relationship? Why does she think this change would be so bad? What is she getting out of it that you don't give her?

Ultimately, I think you are paying a high price for marrying and having kids with someone who you had an open relationship with. I do hope though that you can talk it out with her. Kids deserve two parents if possible.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

There's really only so much room in a person's life for meaningful relationships imo. When kids come along they take a huge chunk of it. It's hard enough keeping one romantic relationship going let alone many while also raising children. That's probably what you see happening with her now. It's the kids, her new BFF, her possible lover/future lover, and somewhere down the line, you'll be fit in when she gets a free moment. When you're not on your partner's priority list, you're not really in a relationship anymore.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

I really don't know how people could think having an open marriage is a good idea unless one of them doesn't really care for the other.


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

breeze said:


> There's really only so much room in a person's life for meaningful relationships imo. When kids come along they take a huge chunk of it. It's hard enough keeping one romantic relationship going let alone many while also raising children. That's probably what you see happening with her now. It's the kids, her new BFF, her possible lover/future lover, and somewhere down the line, you'll be fit in when she gets a free moment. When you're not on your partner's priority list, you're not really in a relationship anymore.


This is a solid point - I mean how much time can parents with two children have? Can you really fit in another person with out negatively impacting the partner? I would think the same if it was you with a girlfriend you were close to. It would be taking away from your wife. (I do understand it works for some people but you don't seem to be falling into that camp.)

It also seems that you are competing with the OM here, kinda like you are dating a woman who is seeing other people in addition to you. Dealing with that cr*p isn't my idea of a marriage.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

It's hard when you set certain boundaries and then decide to change them.

Sounds to me like she is unwilling to go with your new boundaries, which tells you that this relationship is over.

Not much else to it, is there? All of the little details of who and when are irrelevant.

I still think you set yourself up for complete failure. You allowed yourself and your wife to have an open relationship and now expect the complete opposite? That's not going to fly, remember, she has been used to this for over 15 years.

I also have a feeling that she has very little value for this marriage.......

I think it's time to end it.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

I don't know much about open marriage other than what I read on forums. But setting up the initial boundary rules is critical. and some of the rules are: never in the wedding bed, the spouse always has veto power, no more than 4 times with any one person...stuff like that intended to stop an emotional bond from forming. Otherwise, there is almost no chance one of you will not eventually "fall in love" with someone new...it is human nature.

That is why 95% of married people choose to never roll those dice-the temptation is too great.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Listen man, putting THAT genie back into the bottle is going to be difficult, if not impossible.

"Wife, I'm in a different place now. I'm older, we have kids, life is complicated enough. I want to be with someone that is just focused on the marriage partnership, and to be monogamous. I understand I'm changing the rules, but that's what I want. Are you willing to come on this journey with me or not?"


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

With the given info. I'm reading this as the beginning stages of the OP being planB'ed.

We've had a few similar.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

It seems to me, that you need to confront your wife and tell her that you can not live in a marriage that has more then two people in it...and if she can not give up that up then you need to move on for your own piece of mind. if that is what she wants you will not stop her, secondly and more importantly she has defined where you stand...a paycheck.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Confront her? Has she done anything wrong? Not according to the rules of the marriage such as it is.

Seems to me this has to be negotiated and doubtful she bonded sufficiently with him in the first place or she never would have agreed. Were they ever really best friends? Doubtful again. The OP set the bar very low for the emotional strength of the marriage from the start. Orgasming with others does nothing to strengthen emotional ties.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Oh, and the above goes for both men and women. 

He is jealous all of the sudden and doesn't want to lose her. My question is, why now?


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