# Married Man's Sex Life



## kl84 (Jan 26, 2012)

I keep seeing a lot of references to this book on this forum. I read the gist of it and it seems like something my husband (and I) could benefit from. Problem is, my husband doesn't read. Like, no kidding, he won't even read my blog. He just doesn't like reading.

I never really knew how to bring this sort of thing up to him without him taking it the wrong way or going overboard with it and making me miserable.

Here's the thing. I am a *very* dominant female. I can't stress that enough. I am very blunt (not mean, just very candid), have a very strong sense of humor (always making jokes and making people laugh), I don't typically follow the lead of others..... people naturally follow my lead. Family, friends, you name it. I always call the shots. This is not something I intentionally set out to do in life, it's just who I am and no one ever questioned it. I'm the one constantly giving people advice. It drives my sister's bf crazy because she can't even make a decision without consulting me. Same with my husband. He can't even decide what to have for dinner. I KNOW he wants meatloaf, but he'll still say, "Whatever you want to cook, baby." or "Whatever is easier on you". If we see a movie, I picked it. If we go to a restaurant, it was my choice. I even pick out his clothes. He rarely ever speaks up about what he wants. I can go out and blow money on whatever but he will wait and ask me before he makes almost ANY sort of purchases for himself. Like I said, I never intentionally set out to take charge, it just sort of happens. It always does. Even in college I was always picked group leader. I'd always be the one giving presentations. I always got called on. No different at work. So I don't want it to look like I am trying to wear the pants and control my husband because, truth be told, I want him to take the weight off my shoulders and assume more of a leadership role in the house. 

Though he does these things, and assumes he is making me happy and showing he loves me, I know he is NOT happy doing them. But I guess with my personality being so dominant he is probably scared of how I would react if he TOLD me what was going down, rather than asking for permission. Little does he know I would find that very attractive. I want him to just go to the grocery store and come home with what he wants me to cook for him. I want him to tell the family, "Get ready, we're going to xyz". I want him to put his foot down, like I do. I have always been like, if something is bothering me, i'm going to say something about it. I'm not going to keep quiet and hope for the best. He's totally the opposite. I could be pissing him off for weeks and he wouldn't utter a word so as to avoid confrontation and it drives me INSANE. 

With sex. I always found a way out of it. I'm just being honest. And he never said anything about it, ever. He just dealt with it. I want him to speak up more. I want him to be the leader of our family. I don't want to be controlled or dominated, that's not what I am going for here. But I want my husband to stand up for himself and be a man. I know he is not happy feeling like he can't speak up and make his own decisions. I know he doesn't like certain things that happen around here but he just won't speak out on it. 

As dominant as I am, I want to be my husband's partner, not his mother. I want him to feel like he wears the pants. He busts his @$$ for our family and I respect him more than he would ever really know. But he just lets things slide WAY too often and I don't want him looking at me like *I* make him this way. He has hinted that so many times before. *I* control. I do not control. At least I don't try to. Of course in the beginning I went against him a lot because I guess I was just subconsciously testing the limits? Idk. But it was never my intentions to tell him, "No, you can't grab a beer with your friends after work.....EVER". Of course I wouldn't want it to be an all the time thing, we have 3 kids, one with special needs, and number 4 on the way. He's a dad now. But the times his friends have invited him out the past year or two, he's consulted with me first and usually ends up just staying home, I guess assuming I don't want him to go anywhere.....which isn't true. I don't want his buddies or brothers to look at him like I lay the law down and he reluctantly complies. This is what he thinks, though.

At the same time, I LOVE how considerate he is. It does make me feel like, "Wow, I have a pretty awesome husband". I hear a lot of my friends complaining about their men and envying mine.....he really is a great guy and I don't want him to lose that sincerity and become a douche. I don't want him to change who he is, I love him for who he is...... but taking the back seat on EVERYTHING is *not* who he is. 

The times I have brought this up in the past, he's said I would end up hating him if he did what he really wanted to do.....which I don't totally understand..... How can I convey all of this to him without making it seem like I think he's weak (I don't) or that I am trying to change who he is (i'm not) or that I don't appreciate his gentle side (I do).......? He's not going to read the book. I would buy it and it would collect dust. He'd probably read a chapter or two then he'd start feeling like he's in school and he'd get annoyed by it......even if it were something of interest, he's just not into reading.

Help? Am I making sense here?


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

I don't agree with the MMSL way of life at all...visit the blog and see if you agree with his ways before buying the book. Have your H look at it, too. I had my H look at it, he didn't like it either. He said "So, what....am I supposed to start being mean to you now???".

But that's just me...many on here just looooooove Athol...


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## kl84 (Jan 26, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> I don't agree with the MMSL way of life at all...visit the blog and see if you agree with his ways before buying the book. Have your H look at it, too. I had my H look at it, he didn't like it either. He said "So, what....am I supposed to start being mean to you now???".
> 
> But that's just me...many on here just looooooove Athol...


Yeah I wouldn't tolerate him being mean LOL. He knows he couldn't pull *that* off. But I wouldn't be put off by him telling me, "Get ready, we're going to xyz". I do it ALL the time. I tell him where we're going. I tell him what we're eating. I want him to be able to be himself without worrying about pissing me off. There are many times I forego doing something I want just to please him but he RARELY does that. He puts me and the family first ALL THE TIME. I respect that about him and love him to death for being so considerate but there are times when I can tell he just isn't happy doing it.....almost like he feels trapped? I want him to be more assertive.....not be someone he isn't, but to truly speak up for who he IS.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

You sound like my sister...LOL...she tells us ALL what to do

I don't know, sounds like you've got a good man, there. Maybe just ease up on your own assertiveness? Make him feel needed? I don't know...maybe you're the one that needs to change? Or get him to try and meet you halfway.


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## kl84 (Jan 26, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> You sound like my sister...LOL...she tells us ALL what to do
> 
> I don't know, sounds like you've got a good man, there. Maybe just ease up on your own assertiveness? Make him feel needed? I don't know...maybe you're the one that needs to change? Or get him to try and meet you halfway.


I totally have changed. I realized that I *really* needed to a few years ago. Even if he says nothing, and even if I don't feel like it, i'll make his favorite meal because I know he wants it and wouldn't ask for it. When his friends ask him to grab a beer, I GENUINELY encourage it. Would I rather him sit around and watch a chick flick with me while rubbing my back? Of COURSE lol. But I know he'd rather not, so I encourage him to do his guy thing......even if he usually doesn't. I have a list of honey do's that he hasn't gotten to yet but still don't nag when he wants to wash his car or go get his hair cut instead. I always let him know how much I appreciate him. If I snap at him, I usually apologize and tell him i'm just having a rough day and it's not him. If he tells me one of his hair brain ideas that I think is totally ridiculous, I will still entertain it just so he doesn't feel stupid. I haven't changed who I am completely, and wouldn't, because then I would be living a lie. But I have chilled out a LOT on the assertiveness and have made a lot of compromises. I am sure he notices. But even with all that, he's still not as assertive as I know he would want to be..... He always says he does things to make my life easier....and of COURSE I appreciate it..... but not if he sees it as doing me a favor and constantly putting himself on the back burner. I never want him to feel like he can't be who he is and do what he wants.....and I don't know how to convey that to him.....


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> I don't agree with the MMSL way of life at all...visit the blog and see if you agree with his ways before buying the book. Have your H look at it, too. I had my H look at it, he didn't like it either. He said "So, what....am I supposed to start being mean to you now???".
> 
> But that's just me...many on here just looooooove Athol...


Sorry...but I totally disagree. I has absolutely nothing to do with being mean. The first thing you read as a sub-title on his forum is, "Teaching Nice Guys to add a little Bad Boy without becoming Total *********s." You really don't get all of it UNTIL you read the book. The forum tells you some things, but you really need to understand the foundation first. Also, look at all of the women on there that thank Athol for getting their husbands to set up and be the leader.

As to getting you hubby to read, I don't know since I am a reader. Maybe getting laid more often if he begins to practice the principles would be a good incentive. If you want, I can list the things that directly helped us in our relationship.


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## oldgeezer (Sep 8, 2012)

Well, you and my wife are a lot alike. Perhaps my perspective might help. You want him to be direct and blunt. I was raised that doing so is rude, unacceptable behavior toward someone you respect. I have rarely raised my voice toward my wife, and if there's a disagreement, it's me who compromises. She's not totally unreasonable, but just like you, starts insisting I do this and that, and speak up. Of course, when I do, it's because it is something I really, really intend or want, and then she gets furious about it and tells me to stop being stupid and shut up and... 

During a really rough time, she asked me what I thought, and I explained that when I was young, my parents DID control me, and never even dreamed of asking me what I wanted. They just chose it. And objecting was the same as all out angry rebellion, and you could get kicked out onto the street, penniless, over that kind of bad behavior. 

She insists that she's not controlling, and I damn well stop that nonsense right now. 

I've tried to explain to her that if I tell her "I will never wear green pants" that there's no expiration date. So, when she says "Nobody is going to tell me how to spend my money" and "my paycheck is my money", it precludes all possibility of compromise or discussion of the subject. To which she tells me to shut up and stop being stupid. Why, she never said such a thing. 

Yes, you've run totally roughshod over your husband. But that's your personality. You married him becuase he was nice and respectful, and now that same behavior makes you angry because he seems passive. Did you, like my wife, ever say things like "Nobody's ever going to tell me what to (insert topic here)"? Or other such things you forgot 20 seconds later, because you were describing your emotion, not what you demand his behavior be, and he understood exactly what you said, and had not a clue what you wanted to communicate? 

He has to learn how you communicate, and you have to learn how he understands. As long as the two of you fail to speak the same language, nothing can or will change.


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## kl84 (Jan 26, 2012)

oldgeezer said:


> Well, you and my wife are a lot alike. Perhaps my perspective might help. You want him to be direct and blunt. I was raised that doing so is rude, unacceptable behavior toward someone you respect. I have rarely raised my voice toward my wife, and if there's a disagreement, it's me who compromises. She's not totally unreasonable, but just like you, starts insisting I do this and that, and speak up. Of course, when I do, it's because it is something I really, really intend or want, and then she gets furious about it and tells me to stop being stupid and shut up and...
> 
> During a really rough time, she asked me what I thought, and I explained that when I was young, my parents DID control me, and never even dreamed of asking me what I wanted. They just chose it. And objecting was the same as all out angry rebellion, and you could get kicked out onto the street, penniless, over that kind of bad behavior.
> 
> ...


No, you've missed the point. I love that my husband is considerate and asks my opinion on things. I love how sincere he is. I do not want that to change. But if he says he wants to go out somewhere, I would like him to tell me, "I want to go to the gun range, let's go!", instead of, "Sure, we can go to the movies and see whatever you like". I'm not saying I want him to totally disregard what I want, but I want him to speak up about what *he* wants, too. For instance, dinner is obviously an issue. He's a big eater LOL. I never cooked until I met him, now I THROW DOWN in the kitchen for him. He says, "What do you want for dinner tonight?" and my response is, "What would you like to have?". I'm being sincere. I stay at home with three kids while pregnant....yes my day gets hectic..... I understand he wants to make it easy on me.... but I am TRYING to show him that I appreciate he works a very physically demanding job and doesn't get home until almost midnight, the least I could do is cook him a meal he can look forward to. He loves my food.....*even if I scorched it"..... That's all i'm saying. Why can't he just tell me, "I want steak tonight"? He is ALWAYS asking what *I* want. I know he's a considerate guy and all, but sometimes he truly does act a little sad..... like he's not getting everything he wants out of this relationship. And I know it's because he feels he can't speak up to me, be it my personality or whatever the case..... I want to show him, YES.....you CAN tell me you want steak for dinner. Yes, we CAN go to the gun range. Yes, you CAN get a beer with your buddies after work. 

I don't raise my voice at him and don't spew demands at him, either. Having a dominant personality doesn't mean you have to be a b****. Sure there are times I snap when i'm having a rough day, but that's anyone. And I always explain that it's not him, i'm just a little stressed. 

My sister is always telling me, "You need to make him feel like a man".....and I don't know WHAT she is talking about because I don't forbid him of ANYTHING. I don't give him ultimatums. I don't disrespect him. I don't feel like I do anything that would make him feel as if his opinions aren't valid. Maybe I am intimidating? Who knows? I'm really not even saying this for just my benefit, I really want to see my husband happy. My husband, as nice as he is, is a manly man. He's not afraid to get out and get dirty, fixing my car, doing yard work, works a physical job, he's just into guy ****....he's a guy. He's a man. But I also know, as nice as he is, catering to my every need does *not* make him feel like a manly man. It's come out in arguments in the past. And I genuinely do not want to make him feel less of a man just because I have a dominant personality. I would not see him being more assertive as being a ****. If he's not happy, i'm not happy. I just want what's best for our marriage and I would be a fool to think he can continue on decades of marriage assuming a passive role. I don't want some cute thing coming along and batting her eyelashes at him, making him feel manly, when I, as his wife, am willing to do that now.

I will take a backseat. I will let him make decisions, even if I don't totally agree sometimes. I want to build him up as a father and a husband. I want to compliment his personality, not overwhelm him with mine. I want to be his biggest fan, his own personal cheerleader in life. But I can't possibly do that for him if he won't step up and assert himself. Like I said, I am not unhappy with my husband. I feel like I have the best man I could have ever imagined and I thank God he's in my life......frequently. I mean that. I just want him happy, too.


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## kl84 (Jan 26, 2012)

romantic_guy said:


> Sorry...but I totally disagree. I has absolutely nothing to do with being mean. The first thing you read as a sub-title on his forum is, "Teaching Nice Guys to add a little Bad Boy without becoming Total *********s." You really don't get all of it UNTIL you read the book. The forum tells you some things, but you really need to understand the foundation first. Also, look at all of the women on there that thank Athol for getting their husbands to set up and be the leader.
> 
> As to getting you hubby to read, I don't know since I am a reader. Maybe getting laid more often if he begins to practice the principles would be a good incentive. If you want, I can list the things that directly helped us in our relationship.


Yes, please share.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Ok...here goes. Keep in mind these are my interpretations of his concepts.

1. Athol talks about the captain (husband) and the first officer (wife). The first officer is fully capable of running the ship, but the captain is in charge and is ultimately responsible. The captain should listen to the first officer and weigh heavily her counsel. So I am taking much more of a lead role. This is a small area but instead of asking, "Where do you wan to eat?" I say, "Let's have Mexican tonight." She will tell me if she has something else in mind. (Only one of many examples.)

2. Women need a mix of beta (nice guy) and alpha (bad boy). Too much beta and he is not a leader, too much alpha and he is a jerk. I was like your hubby...way too much beta. That being said, I still love to cuddle on the couch naked with her and watch a chick flick, or take her shopping. I am just trying to be more decisive, take the lead, etc.

3. I stopped asking for sex. I initiate expecting we will have sex. This is one of the biggest improvements in our sex life. Athol talks in his book about the fact that many women will not initiate, get over it. I also discovered through other writings that my wive has "responsive desire". This means that she will not be all that interested in sex UNTIL we get into it. Then, she really wants it!! We have both had more orgasms since I started this. The other day we were going to run but it started to rain. She was going to get in the shower, and I came behind her, took her in my arms, and took her back to the bed where I proceeded to make passionate love to her. She LOVED it!

4. I stopped expecting her to orgasm every time. If she says, "I can't today...you go ahead." I take her at her word and go ahead.


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## oldgeezer (Sep 8, 2012)

kl84 said:


> No, you've missed the point. I love that my husband is considerate and asks my opinion on things. I love how sincere he is. I do not want that to change. But if he says he wants to go out somewhere, I would like him to tell me, "I want to go to the gun range, let's go!", instead of, "Sure, we can go to the movies and see whatever you like". I'm not saying I want him to totally disregard what I want, but I want him to speak up about what *he* wants, too.


I absolutely believe you. 

In my case, I simply will not express what I want, because expressing what I want can lead to a confrontation and another "no way" moment, and I'd rather just curl up in a ball or be run roughshod over than to have that kind of rejection. I simply do not risk the emotional investment required to subject my wants to her judgment or opinion. And yes, asking for some specific thing for dinner is risking the "What, you think I want to do all that work with a headache and aching arm, I'm not your slave" or "Why do you have to do that, I don't like that, and I don't want to have to go to store now, I'm tired and hungry and my blood sugar is low and I need to eat before I get even grouchier ( extend for 5 more minutes)" type of slapdown. 

I have no idea if that's you and him. I presume not, or at least not to YOUR observation. My wife is absolutely dead nuts certain it never happens, and never comes from her. But her volatility and her unrelenting anger ( and accompanying sexual, emotional, and intimacy droughts) is not worth the slightest father ruffling. 

Since you identify his behavior as near identical to mine, I'm offering my experience as a possible insight. Not necessarily an accusation or even saying it's true. Just hoping something in it might help. There are similarities in personality and responses, so...


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## oldgeezer (Sep 8, 2012)

In my case, it's a learned behavior I haven't been able to break since my teens. I learned to hide everything from my parents, so it couldn't get taken over and controlled. No matter what the dream or wish or interest, it had to be absolutely and utterly hidden. And, the more important to me, the most deeply and carefully it had to be, to avoid the risk of it being taken and/or controlled. 

I lost all such inhibitions with my wife, until we were married a few years. That all changed the day she got her first profession-derived paycheck. On that day, the sex life nearly died, so did our intimacy, and so did her level of respect. Oh, not completely, but it was a shock so large I reverted back to my former behavior and have never recovered. It's easier to talk to total strangers than it is my wife, because I have an emotional investment in a relationship and she has so much ability to hurt me because of it. To give you an idea... Up to then, sex was generally daily, sometimes twice a day, and we often had marathon sessions of hours, and her initiating sex was probably equal or greater than mine. Within the space of a week, it went from daily to longer than weekly. And it demarcated that paycheck precisely. 

Yes, I told her this, yes I have tried to make her understand. We had a separation for three weeks over other things, and when I came back, I thought it was over, and past sins were forgiven as we promised each other. This was one of the things we addressed. It worked for a month, but then her dog snuck out of the house and was lost for an overnight, and everything she ever had against me she berated me for, including a tirade about how horrible I was for behaving like this. I discovered that nothing was forgiven, just set aside until needed as a weapon again for threatening me. After that, I have been a wreck, physically, sexually, emotionally.


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## joelmacdad (Jul 26, 2010)

romantic_guy said:


> Ok...here goes. Keep in mind these are my interpretations of his concepts.
> 
> 1. Athol talks about the captain (husband) and the first officer (wife). The first officer is fully capable of running the ship, but the captain is in charge and is ultimately responsible. The captain should listen to the first officer and weigh heavily her counsel. So I am taking much more of a lead role. This is a small area but instead of asking, "Where do you wan to eat?" I say, "Let's have Mexican tonight." She will tell me if she has something else in mind. (Only one of many examples.)
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Great stuff above. Could have written this exact response myself. Great book with great advice and things you can work on and change right away and over time.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

So sad when guys are so whipped.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

kl84 said:


> I keep seeing a lot of references to this book on this forum. I read the gist of it and it seems like something my husband (and I) could benefit from. Problem is, my husband doesn't read. Like, no kidding, he won't even read my blog. He just doesn't like reading.


So if he won't read the book, maybe you should. The ideal case would be for him to read it and implement the plan outlined in the book. But if you are ABSOLUTELY certain that he will never read it, you reading it is the next best thing. Perhaps if you gain the knowledge, it might provide you with some insight on how to work with your husband.

I agree with a few other posters that the MMSL book is not about being an a$$hole. I have read the book and it is full of useful information. Its about standing up and being assertive while maintaining a good alpha/beta balance.

**Word of warning...read the whole book if you are going to read it. If you just pull up a chapter or two and read a paragraph out of context, you may get easily offended and throw the book down in disgust thinking that the author is a jerk. You may still not agree with everything he says once you finish reading it but there are likely many things in there that can help you out.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> I don't agree with the MMSL way of life at all...visit the blog and see if you agree with his ways before buying the book. Have your H look at it, too. I had my H look at it, he didn't like it either. He said "So, what....am I supposed to start being mean to you now???".


If this is what you got from MMSL, you either didn't really bother to read it or didn't bother to pay attention to what you were reading.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

Some ebook readers have a text-to-speech function. Maybe get him one of those so he can listen to it. Also, No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover is available in an audiobook format and may be helpful.

And by the way, kl84, you are to be congratulated. It takes a strong woman, not just a woman who likes to say she's a strong woman but is really an insecure, overbearing *****, to understand what you seem to understand about yourself and your husband.


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> I don't agree with the MMSL way of life at all...visit the blog and see if you agree with his ways before buying the book. Have your H look at it, too. I had my H look at it, he didn't like it either. He said "So, what....am I supposed to start being mean to you now???".
> 
> But that's just me...many on here just looooooove Athol...


I don't think even Athol would suggest his 'way of life' for every marriage. He has a very specific target audience: husbands who are in practically sexless marriages where the wife seems to have lost attraction and respect for the H. In these cases, the reason might be the man's personality, he doesn't stand up for himself and lets her treat him with disrepect. He might beg for sex instead of knowing he should turn down the temperature or do a 180. He might have stopped having his own interests or he might have gained a bunch of weight and stopped working out.

He gives advice specific to this one situation, not advice for people who are in a healthy, affectionate marriage with frequent satisfying sex. 

From what I've read on TAM, Athol really knows how to explain the situation to the 'whipped guys' and if they follow the MAP, they then see changes in their wives' attitudes. The advice might sound silly or archaic or sexist, but you can't argue with results.

I read the MMSL book and liked it, but I did hate his 'dating/player' chapter. He should have left that chapter out. It was irrelevant to married men and MMSL anyway. I'd never want to have sex with someone while dating if he was also having sex with other people.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

Kari said:


> I read the MMSL book and liked it, but I did hate his 'dating/player' chapter. He should have left that chapter out. It was irrelevant to married men and MMSL anyway. I'd never want to have sex with someone while dating if he was also having sex with other people.


I agree. I got to that part and kept thinking, why am I reading this? Why is he writing this for married men?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

kl84 said:


> At the same time, I LOVE how considerate he is. It does make me feel like, "Wow, I have a pretty awesome husband". I hear a lot of my friends complaining about their men and envying mine.....he really is a great guy and I don't want him to lose that sincerity and become a douche. I don't want him to change who he is, I love him for who he is...... but taking the back seat on EVERYTHING is *not* who he is.



kl84, I can relate to alot of what you said about your husband, I didn't read all the posts here, but I am clearly a more dominant female - and he is...well... not as assertive as myself...he is also NOT a reader too much, but one thing my husband is happy to do is ...no matter what book I get my hands on... if I post a thread on this forum , he will happily sit down with me and we'll talk...& learn together, whether that is laying in bed side by side... on a swing outside on a nice sunny day.. so I can't complain too much. 

I also bought MMSL ... and as Romantic Guy explained so well....this is specially for the men who are being taking advantage of... the Nice Guy.... the book does not offend ME at all... and I know that I know that I know...had my husband read this book in our past...it could have changed our marriage, and he would have been a happier more fullfilled man. 

Instead he read some stupid article on the net how to do my damn dishes & run my vaccum. What a waste of literature... not all women are the same, I was never an "Acts of service" woman. My radar would have been up real good had he listened to Athol Kay, and in a gooooood way too.  The thing I know about my husband is this.... I don't think he is EVEN capable of disrespecting a woman, it's just NOT in his nature. 

It depends on the man (just as not all women are the same either )....as in anything written ....some will use it to twist the message and enslave others, and others will be greatly helped by it. 

My husband accually enjoys the Chick flicks, he is also like you, wants my opinion on everything - he lets me decide/ take the reigns...now I am not really complaining about this, in fact the only thing I have complained about was...wanting him to be more aggressive in Bed... 

He also just wants to please me, this makes him happy...knowing I am happy. He would put himself on the back burner if he felt I would benefit....I have even had little fights with him on occasion telling he he needs to be MORE SELFISH...how rediculous is that!... I mean really, can anyone relate to [email protected]#$%^

I have to wonder if your husband has a similar Temperment as mine has... have you & he ever taken the time to do a Temperment test. They offer a few differnet types, I cover 2 types in my thread here >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ments-our-spouses-better-understand-them.html

When I read my husband's ....after he took the 1 out of 16 Personality types....being an ISFJ  ..... I almost feel off my chair ....the things it stated were sooooo HIM. Here I was trying to change him in some ways - but needed to just *understand* him - for who he is ... and what gives him Joy...pleasing others. 

Not sure if this IS your husband or he is stuck on the "Nice Guy" merry go round trying to get off. 

Thought it worth a mention!


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## kl84 (Jan 26, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> kl84, I can relate to alot of what you said about your husband, I didn't read all the posts here, but I am clearly a more dominant female - and he is...well... not as assertive as myself...he is also NOT a reader too much, but one thing my husband is happy to do it ...no matter what book I get my hands on... if I post a thread on this forum , he will happily sit down with me and we'll talk...& learn together, whether that is laying in bed side by side... on a swing outside on a nice sunny day.. so I can't complain too much.
> 
> I also bought MMSL ... and as Romantic Guy explained so well....this is specially for the men who are being taking advantage of... the Nice Guy.... the book does not offend ME at all... and I know that I know that I know...had my husband read this book in our past...it could have changed our marriage, and he would have been a happier more fullfilled man.
> 
> ...


I will write more this afternoon when I can but I did want to say, I've had him take it before and I believe he is an INTP.....i'll have to double check LOL. I am an INFP (go figure)....


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

romantic_guy said:


> Sorry...but I totally disagree. I has absolutely nothing to do with being mean. The first thing you read as a sub-title on his forum is, "Teaching Nice Guys to add a little Bad Boy without becoming Total *********s." You really don't get all of it UNTIL you read the book. The forum tells you some things, but you really need to understand the foundation first. Also, look at all of the women on there that thank Athol for getting their husbands to set up and be the leader.
> 
> As to getting you hubby to read, I don't know since I am a reader. *Maybe getting laid more often if he begins to practice the principles would be a good incentive.* If you want, I can list the things that directly helped us in our relationship.


Getting laid more often is my goal, not my husband's...and honestly, I've passed it by quite a few people outside of this forum, and we pretty much all agree. I'll be nice and say it just isn't for us.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Drover said:


> If this is what you got from MMSL, you either didn't really bother to read it or didn't bother to pay attention to what you were reading.


Sorry, but if the blog itself isn't enough to interest me in these views, there's no way I'm wasting money on the book, just so that I can make sure I don't agree with any of it. This is for the pu$$ywhipped among us.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Kari said:


> I don't think even Athol would suggest his 'way of life' for every marriage. He has a very specific target audience: *husbands who are in practically sexless marriages where the wife seems to have lost attraction and respect for the H.* In these cases, the reason might be the man's personality, he doesn't stand up for himself and lets her treat him with disrepect. He might beg for sex instead of knowing he should turn down the temperature or do a 180. He might have stopped having his own interests or he might have gained a bunch of weight and stopped working out.
> 
> He gives advice specific to this one situation, not advice for people who are in a healthy, affectionate marriage with frequent satisfying sex.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Exactly right, and unless these are your problems, I would suspect that MMSL isn't really going to help you. But hey, if it works for the whipped, I guess they've got nothing to lose


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> So sad when guys are so whipped.


But what's "learned behavior" can be in *un*learned.....or changed. No?


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## Mark72 (May 26, 2012)

I am a lot like the husbands described here. My wife appreciated part of it, but I have heard "Why don't you just be a man!" on several occasions... Didn't really "get it" until she left.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

Kl, the book is working for me. It actually is a very interesting read once you get past the first few pages. It sounds like you are natured like my wife nad I like your husband. Also note you are like SA and I like her husband. I have heard the same type things from mine and I bet SAs H has from her as well. 

Here is the thing, if you want him to do some of those things and you have that strong personality when he starts trying some of them then you will need to throttle yourself to a degree and let him feel like he can be that alpha. 

And just as an aside; it has nothing to do with being mean. I am like SAs I don't have it in me to be mean to her but if it turns her on (and it does) I can be forceful.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

Kl, the book is working for me. It actually is a very interesting read once you get past the first few pages. It sounds like you are natured like my wife nad I like your husband. Also note you are like SA and I like her husband. I have heard the same type things from mine and I bet SAs H has from her as well. 

Here is the thing, if you want him to do some of those things and you have that strong personality when he starts trying some of them then you will need to throttle yourself to a degree and let him feel like he can be that alpha. 

And just as an aside; it has nothing to do with being mean. I am like SAs I don't have it in me to be mean to her but if it turns her on (and it does) I can be forceful.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

CharlieParker said:


> SA, I do not like that test, I am not "boring, boring, boring" (ISTJ).


:rofl: You took the halarious test, well hey, if it makes you feel any better, all the other ones are wretched sounding too...gotta make fun of ourselves once in a while... I think I was a cross between the SAP & Miss Do gooder & my husband was the complete Pushover... 

You could be the Criminal or the Loner, or the Crackpot. 




> *kl84 said *: I am a *very* dominant female. I can't stress that enough. I am very blunt (not mean, just very candid), have a very strong sense of humor (always making jokes and making people laugh), I don't typically follow the lead of others..... people naturally follow my lead. Family, friends, you name it. I always call the shots. This is not something I intentionally set out to do in life, it's just who I am and no one ever questioned it. I'm the one constantly giving people advice. It drives my sister's bf crazy because she can't even make a decision without consulting me.....
> 
> 
> In College I was always picked group leader. I'd always be the one giving presentations. I always got called on. No different at work


 You said you are an INFP... Ok, something is terribly screwey with that test if you came out an INTROVERT [email protected]#$% .... Not adding up....

Even I come out an Extravert when I take them....but I was NEVER the daring leader you describe here in your post....advice giver, oh yeah, bold Pretty much...but I'd want to crawl under a dirty rock before giving a Presentation in front of a bunch of people........ Introverts would never describe themselves as you did above here...that is Boldness 101....Clearly Choleric/and or Sanguine behavior and ...Extraverted .


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I didn't see the funny test. But I'm an intj do they probably say I'm the distant nerd.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Kari said:


> From what I've read on TAM, Athol really knows how to explain the situation to the 'whipped guys' and if they follow the MAP, they then see changes in their wives' attitudes. The advice might sound silly or archaic or sexist, but you can't argue with results.


I've read the book out of curiosity (Hell, I'll read anything) and I'm not sure if, "Whipped" is the best word to describe the target demographic although that would certainly be a constituent part of it because those men do exist. 

It seemed to me that a lot of the book was devoted to helping men unlearn typical male behavior and attitudes when it comes to sex and the psychology of attraction.

The ladies can correct me if I'm wrong here, but women do not feel amorous out of a sense of duty, or obligation, or reciprocity or even gratitude. That's not how women see the world; they hate the idea of tit for tat.

But that is exactly how many men see the world. A husband thinks his wife fell in love with him because he was kind and considerate and treated her like gold. Isn't that what dating her was all about? Wasn't the purpose of dating to convince her that he was a good man who would always take care of her and never hurt her? 

So when his wife loses interest in sex, he thinks he must be failing her in some way. He tries to be even nicer and more accommodating. He's not doing this because he's 'whipped.' From a male perspective, it's simple cause and effect, like putting gas in the tank of an empty lawn mower.

But the more he tries, the less interested she is and the more angry he becomes until he's a seething pile of molten lava inside. I suppose from a female perspective that might appear 'whipped.' --Right up until he explodes one day and walks.


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## Gangland (Aug 3, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> I've read the book out of curiosity (Hell, I'll read anything) and I'm not sure if, "Whipped" is the best word to describe the target demographic although that would certainly be a constituent part of it because those men do exist.
> 
> It seemed to me that a lot of the book was devoted to helping men unlearn typical male behavior and attitudes when it comes to sex and the psychology of attraction.
> 
> ...


I agree with most of what you're saying here... except Athol also stresses that you not be dependant on her opening her legs. hince the "don't ask for sex' rule. 

Men who do things they normally wouldn't do, like buying flowers, deferring what you want to do, to do what she wants to, just for a womans approval and intamacy (see: sex) are whipped.

They are whipped because this is a form of supplication. She has the power, you do her bidding to get her approval. Most women hate this... because it turns them off. So when you show you have power by not supplicating, and or not asking her what she would like to do (another form of supplication) it turns her on. Instead have a plan, execute it, lead. this is what being a Captain is and this is what Athol preaches.. I'd also say this is what the OP is looking for.


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## kl84 (Jan 26, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> :rofl: You took the halarious test, well hey, if it makes you feel any better, all the other ones are wretched sounding too...gotta make fun of ourselves once in a while... I think I was a cross between the SAP & Miss Do gooder & my husband was the complete Pushover...
> 
> You could be the Criminal or the Loner, or the Crackpot.
> 
> ...


I've taken it *so* many times LOL. It was actually required when I reenrolled in college at the beginning of this year and I took it several years ago for one of my jobs. When put in social situations, I am VERY outgoing but it's something I really trained myself to do. I suffered years from social anxiety and well, long story short, I fixed that problem without meds lol. But it does not come natural to me and it's something I have to put conscious effort in. I enjoy it while it lasts but for the most part, I prefer being alone. Being around too many people for too long drains me. I really start experiencing physical symptoms. Even my husband, I have to have at least an hour a day of *me* time just to unload my thoughts. When working on projects I *prefer* to do it myself. Anyways, i'm basically a born introvert who learned how to turn on an extrovert switch when needed. Those temperament tests do not have to be the end all be all of who you are, you can teach yourself to adapt to situations that otherwise do not come natural to you. I'm big on self improvement and I LOVE learning new things and testing myself so that was just one of my accomplishments over an issue I had struggled with most of my life.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Gangland said:


> Men who do things they normally wouldn't do, like buying flowers, deferring what you want to do, to do what she wants to, just for a womans approval and intamacy (see: sex) are whipped.


I guess like everything else, it depends on how you define basic terms. To me, 'whipped' would mean something like this: 

"A man who compromises his manhood in order to pacify the woman in the relationship for the purpose of maintaining access to her vagina."​
To me, that is different than the innate believe that humans (And animals too for that matter) generally respond favorably to kindness. But I can see how that line could inadvertently be crossed.


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## karma*girl (Apr 28, 2012)

When my husband buys me flowers, I appreciate it & don't see it as him being 'whipped.'
It's a genuine, loving gesture..it's too bad such a simple, loving act can be so misconstrued. I suppose if he was giving & giving & I was taken him completely for granted & he STILL sent me flowers, then that's a problem. 

I personally want to be asked what I am thinking, what I want, how I feel & to have the chance to make the plans, my way, sometimes.
If my husband 'allows' that, which he totally does, in no way does that mean he's 'whipped' or less of a man.
(If I ALWAYS insisted on my way with no concern for him, then maybe he's 'whipped,' & a total pushover.)

For him to chill on the need to constantly lead, just means he's a fair man that understands what we both want, matter.
His masculinity just is. He can't take me anywhere I don't already know how to go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karma*girl (Apr 28, 2012)

*excuse the typos!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gangland (Aug 3, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> I guess like everything else, it depends on how you define basic terms. To me, 'whipped' would mean something like this:
> 
> "A man who compromises his manhood in order to pacify the woman in the relationship for the purpose of maintaining access to her vagina."​
> To me, that is different than the innate believe that humans (And animals too for that matter) generally respond favorably to kindness. But I can see how that line could inadvertently be crossed.


I actually like your definition better. That's what I was going for.

I think we just feel it in different extremes.

Believing that animals and humans respond to kindess is definitely not "whipped"

It's more of a dependence on a desired result (ie access to her vagina or in extreme cases even just her presence) that causes one to be whipped.

so in that case... I'd agree, Athol's targeted demographic is not whipped men, but they are included.


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## Gangland (Aug 3, 2012)

karma*girl said:


> When my husband buys me flowers, I appreciate it & don't see it as him being 'whipped.'
> It's a genuine, loving gesture..it's too bad such a simple, loving act can be so misconstrued. I suppose if he was giving & giving & I was taken him completely for granted & he STILL sent me flowers, then that's a problem.
> 
> I personally want to be asked what I am thinking, what I want, how I feel & to have the chance to make the plans, my way, sometimes.
> ...


Agreed fully. The kind of man Athol suggests is just the kind of man your husband is. A captain doesn't make the desicions without the input of his first officer (Athol's terms) It's only bad when it's supplicating. As in he never says what he wants because he's afraid you'll dislike him or leave him for it.

In fact. Athol also pushes what he calls "beta traits" which are things that aren't mean at all and fit under what some would call whipped. Things like buying flowers. They do raise a womans appreciation and asure her that you love her and will take care of her, that much is true. These things are needed, but things like this do not make her want to jump your bones, if, like most of Athol's audience, you've lost the mojo in your marriage.

The problem is most men believe that all that is required are the "Beta traits" and when a man does nothing but coddle, fondle and, defer to you, it makes women wonder if her man is valuble enough to be with her. This turns her off. Which causes more fondling and coddling, which turns her off more etc etc.

On the other hand, things like leading, being in shape, having her believe you have options (even if you don't entertain them) and are a valuble mate, are things that women respond to. 

this does not mean "Lead or divorce" that'd be completely exhausting, You have to find balance. But leading is usually where it starts.


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## karma*girl (Apr 28, 2012)

Yes, that's all true..it's when the man gives up what is good for himself in order to please his woman. 
That's when trouble starts. 

Which makes me wonder: Will the same thing happen if the woman gives up everything, for her man?
Or does he like that & expect that? It seems like it goes both ways.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

kl84 said:


> I am VERY outgoing but it's something I really trained myself to do. I suffered years from social anxiety and well, long story short, I fixed that problem without meds lol. But it does not come natural to me and it's something I have to put conscious effort in. I enjoy it while it lasts but for the most part, I prefer being alone. Being around too many people for too long drains me. I really start experiencing physical symptoms. Even my husband, I have to have at least an hour a day of *me* time just to unload my thoughts. When working on projects I *prefer* to do it myself. Anyways, i'm basically a born introvert who learned how to turn on an extrovert switch when needed. Those temperament tests do not have to be the end all be all of who you are, you can teach yourself to adapt to situations that otherwise do not come natural to you. I'm big on self improvement and I LOVE learning new things and testing myself so that was just one of my accomplishments over an issue I had struggled with most of my life.


 That's great, You are a real mover & shaker in what you want to accomplish and you can pull that out on demand then. I am a Choleric / Menancholy - so I have some intraverted as well... and this combination is considered "HARD"... that means I am a little wired, demanding, particular... not exactly so easy to please at times.... but those who know me well .... would think I am a Bubbly Sanquine in how I handle myself in conversation & with friends.... but in reality, I don't have too much of that temperment... So yeah - we can grow & progress....our temperments don't have to define us... :smthumbup:

People get on my nerves too, and I like my down time, I always tell my husband ...he is the only one in this world I can stand to be around 24/7.

Now if we can only get our husbands to pull a little more aggression out of themselves, then we'd be set !


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

karma*girl said:


> When my husband buys me flowers, I appreciate it & don't see it as him being 'whipped.'
> It's a genuine, loving gesture..it's too bad such a simple, loving act can be so misconstrued. I suppose if he was giving & giving & I was taken him completely for granted & he STILL sent me flowers, then that's a problem.
> 
> I personally want to be asked what I am thinking, what I want, how I feel & to have the chance to make the plans, my way, sometimes.
> ...


I think where most men screw up....and correct me if I'm wrong here ladies...is by buying flowers in either one of two situations (mainly); 1. When he screws up, 2. When you give him really good sex.

I mean, I hear it so often...probably more often than "ohhh, how sweeetttt!" when a woman in the office gets flowers: More often than that it seems that they'll joke with the recipient "what did he do now", or "it seems someone is trying to bark their way out of the dog house (love that one )", or "you must have really rocked his world last night"...or something to that effect.

I take all that away. She gets flowers out of the blue, every couple / three months or so, and on special occasions. NEVER after an argument. NEVER because I screwed up. NEVER because I'm trying to kiss her azz. And certainly NEVER because I'm trying to "get some", or she gave me "some". I'll send them simply because I'm thinking of her and want her to feel appreciated. Or maybe she's having a bad week or something. That's pretty much it. 

I refuse to give the appearance I'm trying to "buy" her affection. She instead gives me affection because I treat her well in every day things, day in and day out, year in and year out. And because, I'm sure on some level, she understands that without affection in this relationship, I'll be gone. 

As for the rest of it, the guy should almost always "have a plan". For dinner. For weekends. For vacations. For life issues. Now, every once in a while it's fine to say "you know what hon, you decide....what do you want to do?" But if it happens all the time? That's trouble. It's also fine to have a plan, and if she shows desire to do something else to say "sure, okay, let's have mexican tonight. Tomorrow night, my turn, and we're having italian!"

One of the worst conversations to hear is a man asking his woman where she wants to eat or what she wants to do all the time.

W: What do you want to eat tonight?
H: I don't know. Where do you want to go?
W: I'm not sure. You make a decision.
H: Babe, I really don't care. Any place you want.
W: Hmmm. Well, maybe mexican. But you know what? There's a new bagel place that just opened up. I'd like to go there sometime.
H: Okay, let's get a bagel sandwich then.
W: Ohhh, I'm not sure I want a sandwich.
H: Well....I could do mexican?
W: I don't feel like anything spicy tonight.
H: Well babe, tell me then what you want, because I don't care either way.
W: Are you getting angry? Why are you angry?
H: I'm not. I'm just hungry, and wish you could make up your mind.
W: I don't care where we eat. I want to eat whereever you want to eat. You chose.
H: Babe, whatever you want. Pick a place.


OH MY GOD, SHOOT ME IN THE HEAD! OR SHOOT HER IN THE HEAD AND MERCIFULLY PUT HER OUT OF HER MISERY OF DEALING WITH A DOORMAT MAN!!!

The correct way....

W: What do you want to eat tonight?
H: You know what? That new mexican place opened up. Let's try that. 
W: Hmmm, I don't know, I don't think I can do spicy tonight.
H: Okay then, let's go to the steak house.
W: Okay. 

OR

W: I don't want steak tonight. 
H: Babe, you asked me where I wanted to eat. If you have somewhere you want to go and aren't saying it, then just say so. If you don't, then let's go. Tonight it's steak. Tomorrow you chose. Now get your skinny azz in the car so we can go eat! You'll need your energy later.

It's easy to fall into the trap of trying to appease your woman because that's what you THINK she wants. Or maybe it's even what she TELLS you she wants. Either way, appeasing someone is never a respect getter. And it isn't gonna get you laid either. At least not by a strong woman who has chit going for her.


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## kl84 (Jan 26, 2012)

Never mind lol. Hubs is an intj.


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## Feelingdown (Aug 13, 2012)

While I wouldn't say the content of MMSL is wrong, it really could be summed up in about 1 min of conversation and most of it is stuff that should be common sense. Keep fit and your wife will find you more attractive.... no ****. You don't need the book to go on and on and on and on about this... So much padding it's unreal. Don't like the clinical POV it takes on things either.

But, if someone is seriously whipped, they could probably do with a read.


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## Gangland (Aug 3, 2012)

Feelingdown said:


> While I wouldn't say the content of MMSL is wrong, it really could be summed up in about 1 min of conversation and most of it is stuff that should be common sense. Keep fit and your wife will find you more attractive.... no ****. You don't need the book to go on and on and on and on about this... So much padding it's unreal. Don't like the clinical POV it takes on things either.
> 
> But, if someone is seriously whipped, they could probably do with a read.


This is true to an extent, it is common sense at it's finest. The problem happens because men have heard over and over and over again things like, "buy more flowers, do more dishes, always be nice, always be considerate, treat her like a queen, never let her down." etc. We grow up hearing this everywhere, and so like men we see a problem in the relationship and try to fix it with more of these things. Over time you end up losing your manhood trying to constantly fix problems in your relationship by supplication.

Not many people ever say, stay fit and hot, lead, be decisive, be high value, and you'll avoid some of these problems. In fact they say the opposite: be yourself, find someone who likes you as you are, if you are a bum, find someone who likes bums, etc.

They don't speak truth because it's not politically correct ot say you should lead a woman, or that it's not ok to be a bum and expect you "deserve" a quality mate.

yes it's common sense, but common sense is hard to find. Athol puts it in one place. The padding is needed because in order to change a persons beliefs at the core they have to be convinced that the old belief is completely and utterly false. This is what Athols book does in my opinion.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

karma*girl said:


> Yes, that's all true..it's when the man gives up what is good for himself in order to please his woman.
> That's when trouble starts.
> 
> Which makes me wonder: Will the same thing happen if the woman gives up everything, for her man?
> Or does he like that & expect that? It seems like it goes both ways.


It won't happen to the same degree. Men tend to be attracted to women who are submissive and can defer to their leadership. So some deferring is attractive. However, if a woman defers on everything, then it can feel like you're in a relationship with a child. Most men don't want that. So, women need a balance on submissiveness just as men need a balance on assertiveness.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

kl84 said:


> Here's the thing. I am a *very* dominant female. I can't stress that enough. I am very blunt (not mean, just very candid), have a very strong sense of humor (always making jokes and making people laugh), I don't typically follow the lead of others..... people naturally follow my lead. Family, friends, you name it. I always call the shots.
> ....
> I KNOW he wants meatloaf, but he'll still say, "Whatever you want to cook, baby." or "Whatever is easier on you". If we see a movie, I picked it. If we go to a restaurant, it was my choice. I even pick out his clothes. He rarely ever speaks up about what he wants.
> ...
> ...


Well..., you have a very unhealthy relationship here. It looks to me a Master - Slave relation. With both of you also getting energy from the negative part of it.

You just want to get some more energy and satisfaction by having the Slave protesting and working against you some more. Then the new suppression you can exercise will breng more joy and satisfaction to you.

This is really bad. Sorry for you all. I see no hope here.


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## kl84 (Jan 26, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Well..., you have a very unhealthy relationship here. It looks to me a Master - Slave relation. With both of you also getting energy from the negative part of it.
> 
> You just want to get some more energy and satisfaction by having the Slave protesting and working against you some more. Then the new suppression you can exercise will breng more joy and satisfaction to you.
> 
> This is really bad. Sorry for you all. I see no hope here.


I'm not exactly seeing where you where you are getting the idea that we have a master/slave relationship and I actually LOL'd when I read this......LOL

By me expressing that I *want* him to voice his opinions and do things his way, doesn't that show I am *not* trying to enslave him over here? Idk, I don't think I can even respond to this because I don't know if I should take you serious or not lol.:rofl:


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

I'm afraid it is serious. I hesitated even to react because the story looks like on of those fantasy writing you get here now and than.

The idea of a master/slave relationships comes from the in my opinion extreme doormat behaviour of your husband, and your total controlling of him, and seeming to like it.

Your story and your wish for change made me think of a cat playing with a mouse. The mouse can't get away and gave up, runs around a little bit only if the cat pokes him a lot. The cat gets boared and would like some more action. Why can't the mouse be more fierce, and stand up and fight like a man. That would bring on some real fun, a fighting mouse, you really can enjoy to play with!


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## kl84 (Jan 26, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> I'm afraid it is serious. I hesitated even to react because the story looks like on of those fantasy writing you get here now and than.
> 
> The idea of a master/slave relationships comes from the in my opinion extreme doormat behaviour of your husband, and your total controlling of him, and seeming to like it.
> 
> Your story and your wish for change made me think of a cat playing with a mouse. The mouse can't get away and gave up, runs around a little bit only if the cat pokes him a lot. The cat gets boared and would like some more action. Why can't the mouse be more fierce, and stand up and fight like a man. That would bring on some real fun, a fighting mouse, you really can enjoy to play with!


Please give me an example of where I have controlled him.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

kl84 said:


> Please give me an example of where I have controlled him.


Well, that are basically the quotes I used in my first post:


> I am a *very* dominant female. I can't stress that enough. I am very blunt (not mean, just very candid), have a very strong sense of humor (always making jokes and making people laugh), I don't typically follow the lead of others..... people naturally follow my lead. Family, friends, you name it. I always call the shots.
> ....
> I KNOW he wants meatloaf, but he'll still say, "Whatever you want to cook, baby." or "Whatever is easier on you". If we see a movie, I picked it. If we go to a restaurant, it was my choice. I even pick out his clothes. He rarely ever speaks up about what he wants.
> ...
> ...


Some other outings:

"Yeah I wouldn't tolerate him being mean LOL. He knows he couldn't pull *that* off."
- Your dominance is fueled by his submissive behaviour. 

"My sister is always telling me, "You need to make him feel like a man".....and I don't know WHAT she is talking about "
- Blinded by your own system of thinking.

"I've had him take it before" 
- The use of words is illustrative, you HAD him take the test. People use that words only in a force situation. Where one 'has' the 'authority' to make the other do something. The Domina.

"I will let him make decisions"
- Still you controlling this, as you like, as in a test situation. The Mouse.

"I want to build him up as a father and a husband. I want to compliment his personality" - etc. etc. 

OK your texts are full of examples, I think you can find them yourselves.

I get from your question you need some distance from your relation to consider what is happing with your husband. Someone smart once said "A problem can never be solved on the level it was created on."


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Are you sure you truly want this?

My wife and I are a dominant/dominant couple and we're always headbutting each other. I let my guard down one minute and she's on top of me, and we play quite a fair bit of games with each other. It can be quite toxic at times


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

MMSL is a good read.
Even before reading parts of this book I always believed that men should not work / ask for sex.

I like his views on the actual sex act though.
There are some things some women would never admit to a man.
And if she had to say it to her SO ,
Then its " game over " for him.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

The book is $9.99 on Kindle, if you don't like it, return it.

Way too much overthinking happening here.

KL84 I think you might like it.

And for the record, started on the process of blogging and writing, because so many TAM readers encouraged me to because what I wrote about was so effective at fixing things for so many people.


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## oldgeezer (Sep 8, 2012)

kl84 said:


> Please give me an example of where I have controlled him.


It works like this: 

You have consistently pushed for or insisted on your own way, raised a ruckus when you don't get it. You have, like it or not, set all the boundaries by expanding them so that your dominance controls every aspect of everything. Then, you're mad because he won't cross them. 

YOu clearly stated that you do things to make him mad, just to try to provoke him? Into what? You say "standing up for himself", but from his point of view, you're just plain deliberately being obnoxious, mean, and it apparently goes on for weeks. Imagine the person you are supposed to love endlessly treats you mean and tries to hurt and wound you, apparently until the point you break and violate every boundary. 

This is absolutely unacceptable in any respectful relationship. You will deliberately wrong him, just to make him mad to try to change his personality? Are you crazy? 

Nobody, and I mean, NOBODY gets to wrong another person they love, and be justified. You have pushed him into a corner and keep punching, and to him the ONLY options are to be critical, or get angry and be out of control, and violate the "You will not harm the person you love" relationship you are supposed to be in. 

You want him to push back at you, but that's called "rejection" to his mind and you're damn lucky he hasn't flipped that switch. 

You have pounded on him until he is a doormat, and now you're mad because you got precisely what you wanted - which was to aggressively assert yourself against your partner, with no sense of boundaries or limitations on your part. It is NOT his role in life to corral your aggression. 

Marriage is supposed to be the port in the storm, where you gather strength to meet the hurricane, not the hurricane. If you have taken your partner's freedom to do what he is supposed to do, because you can't recognize or honor a partnership's boundaries, no level of aggressively provoking someone else by endless violation of those boundaries is going to set them back where they should be in a healthy way. It will, rather, resolve itself by him finding another place to be, where he is safe, not the subject of endless aggressive or passive-aggressive provocation.


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

I have read the book 3x in order to keep myself on my MAP. I grew up with 2 sisters (I'm middle child) and a Mom who raised 3 kids by herself working 2 jobs. That made me a strong man in the sense of working hard gets you places. 

But, growing up with no father figure really put me at a disadvantage when it came to meeting women and dating. Yeah, I had my share of GFs in my teens but I did not have that "dad" to guide me on dealing with women. I learned the hard way. I treated girls like queens and they walked all over me. Finally figured it out and by 21-24 YO I dated 5/6 girls on and off. 

Then finally I met my current wife. 

Fast forward to when we got married, waited 4 years to have kids. We did not want to do day care so I went on 3rd shift and her on first shift. Never seen each other... Only weekends. So as she was advancing in her career we decited to have me stay home and be the infamous SAHD. 

It would ultimately change the whole dynamics of our marriage. Took a while but after years of this I realized what was happening. She was slowly changing her view of me and at the same time she would "get off" by letting friends and family know she had the power in our marriage by making little comments that would belittle me in front of them. 

So, I finally let her know it will not be tolerated and she will be called out on it everytime. Has been done many times this summer. 

In conclusion, I have a ways to go in my marriage to make sure my wife respects me no matter what. Reading that book just opens your eyes to why a wife will want you sexually and how to keep the respect everyone deserves. 

In my case, sex rank in my favor works well for me. I am a 8 and she is a 7. I lost weight, lift weights and keep my Alpha strong. I look and feel like i am in my 20's, as where she does not exercise, a little overweight but still looks good. 

So for a $10 book, eating better and lifting weights it's not a bad thing to try. Like the Author says, if in the end it does not work then you will be in better shape at least to find a new woman who wants to have sex with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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