# Wife Has Separated from Marriage, Need Advice



## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I am a 39 year old male. Four weeks ago I was browsing through my wife's work notebook (I know, very bad) and came upon a list she had drafted of bills and apartment rent with her income and thought to myself, well **** that ain't good since we are married and live together in a four bedroom house with one 9 year old son. I realized that we have become a little bitter self absorbed, our sex life has be very bad as well. Largely my part, I have social anxiety and depression and was self-medicating for a very long time with alcohol that got worse and worse because I could not get any sleep constantly worrying about everything, no interest in sex and pretty much ignored the physical intimacy that my wife desired without even realizing it due to my mental state. I am functioning fine at my job, have a good career, but often dodge meetings, con calls classic avoidance behaviors. I realized that things were falling apart and wasn't happy with myself so I went to psychiatrist five months ago and got on Zoloft. I did not tell my wife about this, which is a classic trait of shame/despair by individuals with anxiety disorder. After taking the meds for two weeks my wife found the hidden bottle and just freaked out that I had not told her, a big verbal argument ensued where i explained the reason, which she repeatedly said to me that I did not need this medication and either you quit taking it or I am leaving you. We both cried together and I agreed that I would quit the meds. Well four weeks after I found her above mentioned list she has separated, left me today and move into a new apartment. I feel terrible and know she has a hardened heart towards me since I show very little affection, intimacy, and was plain bitter and angry (not violent) during my drinking over the last year. I have not drank alcohol in four weeks and joined a co-dependency men's group, gone to individual counseling, trying to get involved in church again, got back on the meds, will seek cognitive therapy for the anxiety. 

My wife has always been very controlling and I feel like she always has to have her way, she now has built her walls up and checked out completely, I had to live with her for the last four weeks knowing last weekend was D-Day for her moving out. I am in a pitiful state of affairs, I have repented all my wrong doings, I never cheated, I am a classic "Nice Guy" have all the traits so am reading the book. As sad as our relationship has been, I want us to work it out. I am way overdue to change my ways and am working towards that, work on myself with therapy and any means available. I may go to AA since they are a pretty good support group. What advice can you provide to unharden my wifes heart towards me, she has trust issues with me since I did not tell her about the meds. Also, she recently change jobs and there is also a possible EA or PA out there that I am unaware of, overhead her talk about a guy at work to her girlfriend, but she swears up and down there is not and she is leaving me because she is "Done". I take responsibility for much of this, but she never once spoke up months ago, suggested marriage counseling, sexual counseling, anything where we could have maybe nipped this before it got to the current state of despair. Please help. I am a train wreck right now.


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## DiamondsandRust (Jan 21, 2014)

my stbxw is very controlling too. not a control freak but she wants things done other wise she gets mad and stops talking. 

one time we had a big argument over a stupid hair iron on tv. lol she wanted it so bad and when i said no, she started crying and stopped talking. and little things here and there, even small things like get me some water and if i said no. she would get pissed and that was enough reason to stop talking. 

I love her and I miss her regardless of all that. we have 2 kids and i take care of them daily while she goes to work. 

I tell you stay strong, do the 180. It will hurt like hell and you will feel that you are in hell but as time goes by you will feel better. Take it day by day and dont look at the big picture, otherwise you wont go very far. If you start thinking about her. do something else, watch tv or go out for a walk. distract yourself. 

keep your mind occupied, go out with friends. If you go to church then do that too.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

Don't let her keep the kids all she wants

Find a Divorce care class
Get a good attorney, interview a few. If you can go collaborative or something like that even better with your wife

Get liquid financially, fast

Shut down every bill you can, my opinion any way

Start thinking about custody, who would say you are a good dad

Talk to your friends, tell them you are going to need them to call, stop, talk, listen, help, keep you going, etc. I'd suggest 5-10 if you have them.

Bond with family and friends, co workers

You are in for a ride, sorry to say. I got hit out of the blue right at Thanksgiving. 21 years in.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

Focus on YOU and your children. Go to AA, go to IC, keep doing what you are doing. I could have only dreamed that my STBXH secretly went to the doctor on got on Zoloft. I don't understand why she would be angry about that. Repair yourself. If there is any chance on getting your wife back you need to turn the focus onto yourself at this time.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hesitationmarks said:


> After taking the meds for two weeks my wife found the hidden bottle and just freaked out that I had not told her, a big verbal argument ensued where i explained the reason, which she repeatedly said to me that I did not need this medication and either you quit taking it or I am leaving you. We both cried together and I agreed that I would quit the meds.


Gee, I wonder how you got the notion it was a good idea to not tell her things?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

You cannot change how your wife feels about you right now. I would suggest you join AA start exercising and working on you. Become a strong man physically and emotionally. Then maybe your wife will change the way she feels about you. But if she doesn't, you're going to be in a better frame of mind going forward. Please take care of yourself. I'm hoping the very best for you.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Thanks for all your responses and advice, i feel for all of you as well who are experiencing this. Are most all of your situations the result of an EA and/or PA?


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

My situation has involved a PA.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

As far as I know there has been no one else, just an emotionally distant wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> I am a 39 year old male. Four weeks ago I was browsing through my wife's work notebook (I know, very bad) and came upon a list she had drafted of bills and apartment rent with her income and thought to myself, well **** that ain't good since we are married and live together in a four bedroom house with one 9 year old son. I realized that we have become a little bitter self absorbed, our sex life has be very bad as well. Largely my part, I have social anxiety and depression and was self-medicating for a very long time with alcohol that got worse and worse because I could not get any sleep constantly worrying about everything, no interest in sex and pretty much ignored the physical intimacy that my wife desired without even realizing it due to my mental state. I am functioning fine at my job, have a good career, but often dodge meetings, con calls classic avoidance behaviors. I realized that things were falling apart and wasn't happy with myself so I went to psychiatrist five months ago and got on Zoloft. I did not tell my wife about this, which is a classic trait of shame/despair by individuals with anxiety disorder. After taking the meds for two weeks my wife found the hidden bottle and just freaked out that I had not told her, a big verbal argument ensued where i explained the reason, which she repeatedly said to me that I did not need this medication and either you quit taking it or I am leaving you. We both cried together and I agreed that I would quit the meds. Well four weeks after I found her above mentioned list she has separated, left me today and move into a new apartment. I feel terrible and know she has a hardened heart towards me since I show very little affection, intimacy, and was plain bitter and angry (not violent) during my drinking over the last year. I have not drank alcohol in four weeks and joined a co-dependency men's group, gone to individual counseling, trying to get involved in church again, got back on the meds, will seek cognitive therapy for the anxiety.
> 
> My wife has always been very controlling and I feel like she always has to have her way, she now has built her walls up and checked out completely, I had to live with her for the last four weeks knowing last weekend was D-Day for her moving out. I am in a pitiful state of affairs, I have repented all my wrong doings, I never cheated, I am a classic "Nice Guy" have all the traits so am reading the book. As sad as our relationship has been, I want us to work it out. I am way overdue to change my ways and am working towards that, work on myself with therapy and any means available. I may go to AA since they are a pretty good support group. What advice can you provide to unharden my wifes heart towards me, she has trust issues with me since I did not tell her about the meds. Also, she recently change jobs and there is also a possible EA or PA out there that I am unaware of, overhead her talk about a guy at work to her girlfriend, but she swears up and down there is not and she is leaving me because she is "Done". I take responsibility for much of this, but she never once spoke up months ago, suggested marriage counseling, sexual counseling, anything where we could have maybe nipped this before it got to the current state of despair. Please help. I am a train wreck right now.


I am a psych not a psychiatrist but who gave her the

authority to order you to stop taking meds? And she

graduated from what med school?

As soon as you can, get NMMNG and MMSL

vet TAMers will hopefully follow with links

to a portion or maybe the whole book

From what you have stated, this was methodically 

planned out. Are you able to access cell records, CC receipts 

or place a VAR under driver's seat of car? You suspect this don't

you? The bottle is used as self medication by millions

and causes undue hardship. Stay clear of it, AA is good for 

anyone who suspects a problem, church is recommended, 

it cleans the soul.... in the meantime.....no contact with her, 

do the 180, it's for YOU not her. Get out and walk or jog,

hit the gym....get into shape. Whether she returns, you decide 

you do not want her back...your life will go on. So will

your job as a father......time to stand up, own up


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## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

1.) NEVER stop taking Zoloft once you've started, without the direction of the person prescribing it. I've seen what can happen and it's not good. So get back to your therapist and get back on whatever a DOCTOR tells you to take. She gets her Phd then she has a say in it.

2.) Lawyer. Now. Petition for the return of your son to the marital home and secure a temporary custody order with at least 50/50 overnights.

3.) Change locks. She has no business in the house anymore. 

4.) Ask your lawyer about insurances. Most states and companies won't allow you to remove her until you're divorced.

5.) PO Box. May be a pain. But I recommend you get one and use it for all bills and legal proceedings. MY ex messed with the mailbox on my house a few times before I did this. Nipped before it turned ugly.

6.) Pocket digital recorder form WalyWorld or RadioShed. Get acquainted with it. Record when she's interacting with you. This could and most likely will save you a lot of headache when she tries a bogus Domestic Violence charge. 

7.) If she calls, it goes to voice mail. Leave it there. Documentation. If it's not an email or text, it's recorded. I went to Google Voice and told my ex I had to change numbers. I have the screening option on and I press 4 and record every call with her. If I know she's flamed up in the start of the call it goes to voice mail. I can give the court and my lawyer access to the account to get what they need without giving up my phone.

8.) Keep your head. your marriage is now a business transaction.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

As chuck alluded to, you have an affair in the back of your mind don't you. 

Many come here thinking that but have been so gas lighted even mentioning it in an anonymous forum is uncomfortable. 

If you suspect this and have clues tell us about it.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Hey hesitationmarks here, marriage is in the ****ter here. Var'd the wife a few weeks ago and blocked it out on my subconscious. I haven't been completely honest with you guys. While listening to the wife, she was discussing a co-worker I assume with her toxic friend (proponent) "well it sucks, ha ha ha, I haven't seen him all week, I waiting for him at lunch, he usually takes a full hour for lunch, I had to run to _ _ _ _ _ and was gonna take him with me (job related task), but I waiting and he hadn't showed so I had to run, I came back after the meeting and he was out on a site visit so I missed him, Monday he called in sick and Tuesday I was at the other office, Wednesday was my work at home day, so I hadn't been able to talk with him all week".

She is not wearing her wedding ring after separating, I know this could be an honest crush with a younger co-worker/employee who has her ear and is real attentive, telling her all the right things. Whatever it is my gut is telling me this **** is over, her and I. Should I pull the plug out of limbo hell. I guess I just want the truth, she has repeated that I am not leaving you for someone else, but no ring and this **** and other behaviors tell me otherwise. WFT is my next move. Asked her tonight "So are you not wearing your wedding ring anymore at all, her reply "I not doing this right now, I have had a long damn day" while she hurries out of the house to her car. Let me see the light and provide me the guidance that I need from you old wiley veterans.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

NO contact

Do the 180

Work on YOU

is this posom married or have g/f? if so you need to expose the affair
if she wants out, give her EXACTLY what she wants

it rarely or never unfolds as they planned

what are you doing to find out who this posom is?


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Idk, Chuck. All we know now is she she interest in this dude. Exposing now may be premature. 

Continuing the 180 and surveillance are important.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> Hey hesitationmarks here, marriage is in the ****ter here. Var'd the wife a few weeks ago and blocked it out on my subconscious. I haven't been completely honest with you guys. While listening to the wife, she was discussing a co-worker I assume with her toxic friend (proponent) "well it sucks, ha ha ha, I haven't seen him all week, I waiting for him at lunch, he usually takes a full hour for lunch, I had to run to _ _ _ _ _ and was gonna take him with me (job related task), but I waiting and he hadn't showed so I had to run, I came back after the meeting and he was out on a site visit so I missed him, Monday he called in sick and Tuesday I was at the other office, Wednesday was my work at home day, so I hadn't been able to talk with him all week".
> 
> 
> 
> She is not wearing her wedding ring after separating, I know this could be an honest crush with a younger co-worker/employee who has her ear and is real attentive, telling her all the right things. Whatever it is my gut is telling me this **** is over, her and I. Should I pull the plug out of limbo hell. I guess I just want the truth, she has repeated that I am not leaving you for someone else, but no ring and this **** and other behaviors tell me otherwise. WFT is my next move. Asked her tonight "So are you not wearing your wedding ring anymore at all, her reply "I not doing this right now, I have had a long damn day" while she hurries out of the house to her car. Let me see the light and provide me the guidance that I need from you old wiley veterans.



If she is already involved with this guy she won't want to talk about anything with you because her story is incomplete. 

She knows whatever she tells you won't make sense because a key element will be left out. 

If she does engage with you all you're going to hear is what an a-hole you are.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

not yet full blown or she would already have answers to the 

questions she was unsure of about his coordinates. but she is 

emotionally detached and CG, what is 98% likely to happen now?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hesitationmarks said:


> Asked her tonight "So are you not wearing your wedding ring anymore at all, her reply "I not doing this right now, I have had a long damn day" while she hurries out of the house to her car.


This is exactly the type of interaction which will get you nothing but headache and heartache.

It makes you look completely weak - as all your focus is on nagging her and trying to figure her out.

Her perception of your weakness is that you are thinking about her and pondering her activities. This is the opposite of the type of proactive male she wants in her life.

She's lost some respect and attraction for you. Focus on making yourself more attractive (for her, or for others)

Talk less - do more.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> not yet full blown or she would already have answers to the
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Exposure breaks fog. 

No relationship, no fog. 

Conrad is right, talk less do more. 

If he wants her back he'll need to get her back with actions not words. 

180 and self improvement. 

Get out and do things. Be interesting and be fun. 

Smile when you see her but don't engage with her. Avoid conversation but if unavoidable be short and sweet. 

Continue surveillance.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Giving you a hard time about the meds is bull poop on her part. You have the right to go to your doc, and you have the right to whatever treatments you believe are correct for you. It was abusive for her to use that as a reason to leave you.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Listen to these people's suggestions. Prepare mentally and emotionally for life without her. Focus on you. Ignore her selfish behavior because why doesn't matter anymore.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Do you think your wife has an itchy pus*y and just has this urge to fu*k any guy she finds attractive? Doubtful.

What about all this advice of exposing the affair partner to clear the "fog" that your wife is in? Useless.

Your wife just grew sick and tired of having a socially inept alcoholic of a husband. She gave your enough warning, but you were probably so numb, you didn't notice. 

Tell her whatever, expose whoever, because none of it matters to her. She isn't in any fog. She's just sick and tired of you and can't take you anymore. As far as she's concerned, your marriage is over.

The more you wallow in self-pity, the longer this is going to hurt. Draft up the divorce papers immediately, and chalk this one up to a hard learning experience. 

Life does move on and there is no reason for you not to have a good one. Get off the booze, and eventually those meds, because the woman in the next chapter of your life isn't going to like it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Alpha said:


> Do you think your wife has an itchy pus*y and just has this urge to fu*k any guy she finds attractive? Doubtful.
> 
> What about all this advice of exposing the affair partner to clear the "fog" that your wife is in? Useless.
> 
> ...


Very constructive.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

She gave me no warning just withdrew, she has her own damn issues, just never addressed them, so its all my fault. No second chance, no work on marriage, no counseling, nothing. Alpha, are you perfect, no flaws huh, alpha male. Don't judge, when you live in a glass house.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hesitationmarks said:


> She gave me no warning just withdrew, she has her own damn issues, just never addressed them, so its all my fault. No second chance, no work on marriage, no counseling, nothing. Alpha, are you perfect, no flaws huh, alpha male. Don't judge, when you live in a glass house.


Hmarks,

Men often go through what's characterized as a mid-life crisis.

For women, the crisis is often best characterized as "whole life"

Much easier to blame it on someone else.

But, the question remains... what are YOU going to do about it?


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Friend, you need to work on yourself before you do anything else. You can't worry about her while your trying to get a grip on your own life. 

Once you get yourself squared away then move on a find someone not so domineering. A marriage is a two way street.

Question. Who has the child?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Very constructive.


nah me thinks this individual saw something in the mirror


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> She gave me no warning just withdrew, she has her own damn issues, just never addressed them, so its all my fault. No second chance, no work on marriage, no counseling, nothing. Alpha, are you perfect, no flaws huh, alpha male. Don't judge, when you live in a glass house.


no one is 100% at fault and other 0%

once you work on you, you will see yourself

in a much different situation. until this point is reached

you are in a state of confusion, disarray 

collect your senses, we will help you

you will see things so differently by spring


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Folks, I appreciate the support and know many of you are going through a similar and often worse situation. I wish all of you the best of luck. I am two weeks in and trying to get mentally stronger, still hanging on to hope of getting wife back but realize if nothing changes and i don't become stronger, whats the point as i and her will still be miserable. How do you get motivated to do the heavy lifting on yourself, winter is tough time to do it. I am in individual therapy and mens CODA group and it helps. How do you quit obsessing about the wife, where is she? What is she doing? Damn its tough, i am reaching out to friends i grew away from that went through their own share of relationship issues, trying to get around men to build that masculinity back.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Alpha said:


> Do you think your wife has an itchy pus*y and just has this urge to fu*k any guy she finds attractive? Doubtful.
> 
> What about all this advice of exposing the affair partner to clear the "fog" that your wife is in? Useless.
> 
> ...



POSOM, is that you?


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

6301, we are both keeping the son, she is not pulling the keep your son away from you card. Anytime i want him, i get him, about 50:50 the last few weeks


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> Folks, I appreciate the support and know many of you are going through a similar and often worse situation. I wish all of you the best of luck. I am two weeks in and trying to get mentally stronger, still hanging on to hope of getting wife back but realize if nothing changes and i don't become stronger, whats the point as i and her will still be miserable. How do you get motivated to do the heavy lifting on yourself, winter is tough time to do it. I am in individual therapy and mens CODA group and it helps. How do you quit obsessing about the wife, where is she? What is she doing? Damn its tough, i am reaching out to friends i grew away from that went through their own share of relationship issues, trying to get around men to build that masculinity back.



You've answered your own question. 

Keep doing these things. 

Forgive yourself first of all.

I was where you were at. Probably longer than most on TAM. 

Trust me, it gets better.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Ceegee said:


> POSOM, is that you?


:rofl:


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

How did you fellas work on yourselves, since this occurred i have stayed at home a lot and isolated, again only two weeks in and its early, should get better. Self confidence is shot though. I like road cycling but damn cold. Mentally, how did you work on your self confidence and swagger.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Thanks Ceegee, i will work the process learned in the books and message boards and have patience


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> How did you fellas work on yourselves, since this occurred i have stayed at home a lot and isolated, again only two weeks in and its early, should get better. Self confidence is shot though. I like road cycling but damn cold. Mentally, how did you work on your self confidence and swagger.



Nothing works better for building confidence like meeting other women. 

Just flirting and getting attention for now. 

You need to know you're still desirable because you are. Even the way you are right now. 

Get in shape physically and emotionally. Chicks dig an active guy. They go crazy for guys that are working on themselves emotionally and spiritually. 

MMSLP is a great start.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> 6301, we are both keeping the son, she is not pulling the keep your son away from you card. Anytime i want him, i get him, about 50:50 the last few weeks


everyone reacts differently and everyone's overall situation

is different, but the patterns....there are only several

no one is accusing, mostly we try to give ideas on how to

find out answers to your questions

IF she is with another, you can not do anything to

erase the past nor can you keep her from it

the key is you CAN change you

in a nutshell, everyone here, minus "alfa" is telling you

virtually the same thing but in a different way

1-work on you

2-spent time with kid(s)

3-if you suspect a posom, investigate

4-IC for you

5-if it can be saved, it will take TWO, not one

this link sheds light, whoever wrote it, was a savant

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> How did you fellas work on yourselves, since this occurred i have stayed at home a lot and isolated, again only two weeks in and its early, should get better. Self confidence is shot though. I like road cycling but damn cold. Mentally, how did you work on your self confidence and swagger.


meetup.com groups local

go out with the guys

the gym (much better than a bar)

if you love to read, frequent bookstore / library

make chatter at food store / coffee shop

catch a basketball game

females will frequent places guys are at as well


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hesitationmarks said:


> Folks, I appreciate the support and know many of you are going through a similar and often worse situation. I wish all of you the best of luck. I am two weeks in and trying to get mentally stronger, still hanging on to hope of getting wife back but realize if nothing changes and i don't become stronger, whats the point as i and her will still be miserable. How do you get motivated to do the heavy lifting on yourself, winter is tough time to do it. I am in individual therapy and mens CODA group and it helps. How do you quit obsessing about the wife, where is she? What is she doing? Damn its tough, i am reaching out to friends i grew away from that went through their own share of relationship issues, trying to get around men to build that masculinity back.


Do you have a therapist?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hell, do you have an attorney as well?

Because if my wife left me because I was a mess I would do two things right away.

1. Get a great therapist to work with me on solving my behavioral issues.

2. Get a great attorney to help separate my finances, formal separation agreement/divorce and a child custody/support agreement set in stone.

Have your wife served at work.

No matter how much you want to reconcile you have to send her a clear message that since she walked she gets the walking papers.

Stop trying to wrack your brain on what she is doing because I will tell you.

She is moving on.

Show her that you really don't need her to be happy.

Now get going.

HM


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I do have an individual counselor and have spoke with a few attorneys, basically they said you could file or wait a little while.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hesitationmarks said:


> I do have an individual counselor and have spoke with a few attorneys, basically they said you could file or wait a little while.


Wait for what?


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Conrad, do you think my situation is over, marriage is toast, should I file soon? What was you story.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

hesitationmarks said:


> Conrad, do you think my situation is over, marriage is toast, should I file soon? What was you story.


File now....take control, it's the fastest way to assume control of your destiny. In this case the best defense is a strong offense........Ask me how I know.....The wondering, worrying, all that reactive stuff will eat you alive. I know it is early for you but you can stop the bleeding early if you act decisively and soon. It took me 3 months to get my game on.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> Conrad, do you think my situation is over, marriage is toast, should I file soon? What was you story.


go ahead and file, you can stop it at any time

if you wait on her to file, you may be dragged through

limbo a lot longer than you want to

don't tell her you will file, just file

you can bet the farm she will have a reaction


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hesitationmarks said:


> Conrad, do you think my situation is over, marriage is toast, should I file soon? What was you story.


Mach put this in a CWI post... it's the best I've seen:

As everyone says you've got to be willing to burn the village to save it. It's harder to do when she has moved out, but it's definitely doable.

First expose to everyone in her family. Don't give her money for anything. 

As you've already been told, quit discussing the relationship. Go dark on everything but kids, until she's served. If she comes around, you can always stop it.

Change your hair. Grow it, cut it, dye it, just change it. Add or subtract facial hair.

Get another ride. Something a single guy would drive. Hot rod, chopper, sports car.

Get in the shape of your life; as in a defined six pack, and the broadest shoulders you can get.

Start dressing like a guy ten years younger with 3X the income.

Next time she sees you, and ever time thereafter, she needs to see the above changes. Just like her fake rack, this is a signal to her that you are moving onward and upward to younger and hotter. Start going out like you're dating the world. Have a baby sitter in a couple of nights per week. Got to a movie, go to the library, go feed the bears, just be going out.

She will not like this message. Provoking that is your best option. Unfortunately, she is probably too far gone and living on her own gives her too much time to sample strange. She can get addicted, due to the brain chemistry involved, to riding the cøck carousel really quick.

The outward improvements and the clouds of mystery pouring confusion on the ground may get her attention. She may possibly become intrigued, more likely not, but if this doesn't work, nothing else will either.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> you can bet the farm she will have a reaction



I agree with this. File first and watch her reaction. 

Don't make my mistake. After our first d-day she went NC. I hired an attorney and he sent her a letter stating my intent to divorce. She responded to the attorney agreeing to my terms. Then later she responded to me. 

Cake eating and gaslighting. I fell for it. Set myself up for another d-day which happened on her terms at the end of false R, which she used to detach and implement Plan A.

Saddle up cowboy. Prepare for the worst and bring the divorce to her. You can always stop it. If she is truly in this she will show it, not say it.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

I also want to say that for spouses doing the 180 and self improvement track; you have to do it for yourself KNOWING your spouse isn't likely coming back.

Going to the gym or getting a new hair style is all good if that helps make you feel better, but it won't bring back the walk away or cheating spouse. 

If they were into you they wouldn't have left. 

The problem isn't you, it's them. If someone loves you they don't cheat or walk away.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> I also want to say that for spouses doing the 180 and self improvement track; you have to do it for yourself KNOWING your spouse isn't likely coming back.
> 
> Going to the gym or getting a new hair style is all good if that helps make you feel better, but it won't bring back the walk away or cheating spouse.
> 
> ...


Actually, when someone loses attraction for you, there are multiple factors.

Simply blaming them for everything is counterproductive.

(It's what they've likely done to you)


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Actually, when someone loses attraction for you, there are multiple factors.
> 
> Simply blaming them for everything is counterproductive.
> 
> (It's what they've likely done to you)


I understand. But there's a point of no return. In my case she's reached it. I cannot control her behaviors or emotions. If she is in affair fog I don't want her back. If she could do it once she can do it again. Game over.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> I understand. But there's a point of no return. In my case she's reached it. I cannot control her behaviors or emotions. If she is in affair fog I don't want her back. If she could do it once she can do it again. Game over.



There's never a point if no return. 

People get remarried all the time. 

Whether you choose to or not is up to you.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

my parents were "retreads" '66 and '68......after 1st pop

had to go by her mom's to get his clothes...he asked her 

"if they could still date" LOL but yes it happens


even after 20+ years when 1st love came by my place

this spring....that itch from 1988-90 was waking up

she came by to drop off a bottle of Scotch and JD for

doing a mini term paper. Since 1990...I'd like to think I have grown 

cognitively. The thoughts of she and I did run through my head

and there could have been a spark had there not been so many

obstacles today. 


You can fall in love again.... but you must travel this road

to be clear headed as when you first met her

you can't make others pony up to their problems

all you can do is "own your own"


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> [ QUOTE=Pictureless;6955970]I understand. But there's a point of no return. In my case she's reached it. I cannot control her behaviors or emotions. If she is in affair fog I don't want her back. If she could do it once she can do it again. Game over.



There's never a point if no return. 

People get remarried all the time. 

Whether you choose to or not is up to you.[/QUOTE]

On the one hand that's a little nice to think about because it validates me as a person; I'm not the things she says I am. She vilified me to disown her POS behavior. 

On the other hand it's sad to think about. I know she's gone for good. She'll never want back. And if she did I couldn't do it. Not after how she acted. Not knowing she dumped me for greener grass.

As bad as she hurt me, I want her to be happy. I hope she doesn't ever want to come back. I don't want to have to reject her. But I will because I can never trust her again. 

In the final analysis, what will have changed? Me. I stopped believing in her because of how she treated me. Love and forgiveness is not a lifelong pact to heartache; there are consequences to choices made.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> There's never a point if no return.
> 
> People get remarried all the time.
> 
> Whether you choose to or not is up to you.


On the one hand that's a little nice to think about because it validates me as a person; I'm not the things she says I am. She vilified me to disown her POS behavior. 

On the other hand it's sad to think about. I know she's gone for good. She'll never want back. And if she did I couldn't do it. Not after how she acted. Not knowing she dumped me for greener grass.

As bad as she hurt me, I want her to be happy. I hope she doesn't ever want to come back. I don't want to have to reject her. But I will because I can never trust her again. 

In the final analysis, what will have changed? Me. I stopped believing in her because of how she treated me. Love and forgiveness is not a lifelong pact to heartache; there are consequences to choices made.[/QUOTE]




when you forgive her, it is more about you moving on


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> On the one hand that's a little nice to think about because it validates me as a person; I'm not the things she says I am. She vilified me to disown her POS behavior.
> 
> On the other hand it's sad to think about. I know she's gone for good. She'll never want back. And if she did I couldn't do it. Not after how she acted. Not knowing she dumped me for greener grass.
> 
> ...


Is it necessary to define yourself by how you feel about her?


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Is it necessary to define yourself by how you feel about her?


I'm not. I don't think I am. I am entitled to my feelings. 12 years with her. It's only been a 2 months since d-day #2 and our divorce hearing is in 2 weeks. Her choice. I can't stop it so why fight what I can't control. 

Trying to move on. I have a job interview for a better position on Friday. I have an appointment tonight for a tour of a health club I'm interested in joining. I have plans with a group for Valentine’s Day. I have some long delayed dental work scheduled. And I've been talking with a woman I met on a dating site (and I told her the truth about my current circumstances and she still wants to be friends which is good enough for me now). I'm even exploring going back to college to finish my master's. 

One day I'll wake up and I won't care anymore. I didn't change. I was a good person when she married me. My first, her third. I just didn't know the level of crazy I married into with all her baggage. My mistake. I loved righteously, just unwisely. Next time I'll discern better for myself.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Good talk, you guys are passionate and very knowledgeable about these issues, i spoke with a bunch of folks here in NOLA, divorcees, women and men and they all said its over, work on you. Talked to a female attorney until 3 am last night and a Russian hottie the previous night, felt good, trying to get my swagger back. The attorney wants me to stay and hang out tonight but another night here and i will need detox. You know when the wife informed me she was leaving, i immediately quit drinking, tried to change myself, read self help books trying to find what she is looking for in me and bring it out. What a pathetic waste of time, I wont try to change for her if she has no interest in working on her own issues and fcking around behind my back. You guys dating chicks, how do you find them.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

They found us.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Ceegee said:


> They found us.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

For real! I'm just talking with a new lady friend and that's more than good enough for me now. 

Hang a shingle out. You'd be amazed how many people want other people in their lives.

Baby steps....


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> For real! I'm just talking with a new lady friend and that's more than good enough for me now.
> 
> Hang a shingle out. You'd be amazed how many people want other people in their lives.
> 
> Baby steps....


get lost and ask a female directions


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Really depressed tonight been drinking alot, listening to some dark music. I am 39, people tell me i look 30 and i will be fine but that doesnt stop the pain and negative thoughts. I was already in a bad mental state before my separation, how do you stop the negative thoughts. Stop drinking for three weeks, but went to nola and got hammered two nights and back at it tonight, takes the pain away. I am not healthy, can function, but not mentally healthy at the moment. I said i would change for her, and quit drinking, but it doesnt matter to her apparently, she came over tonight and we watched a movie but we ar still apart. I just want to give her a romantic kiss and **** her brains out to show i love her.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Listening to nine inch nails "another version of the truth" an instrumental, will make you ****in cry in this state of mind


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Went to a titty bar, got a lap dance by a 19 year old hottie, talked to a Russian babe for two hours, talked to a thirty year old lawyer from midnight to 3 am over beer and coffee, slightly overweight, could of stayed an extra night and bagged it, nothing helps. What will help me snap out, single sites, hookers, i need a fix. Without my wife i need a sense of self. Ultimately i want her, but it looks less likely everyday.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Damn bad night guys/gals sorry for all the childish posts, miss my wife


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

The booze will kill you dude. 

It turns you inward and causes you to focus on the negative. 

When you sober up, go back and read what you posted this morning / last night. 

Not very attractive is it?

Maybe start going to AA. You said in your earlier posts that alcohol played a part in your relationship problems. Now, here it is again messing up your life. 

Are you still on Zoloft? Not a good combination.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

hesitationmarks said:


> Damn bad night guys/gals sorry for all the childish posts, miss my wife


I've done it too. It's ok, don't dwell on it, but try not to do it again.

Because it only makes you feel worse.

Nothing you did yesterday will fix you or bring her back.

If you're going to spend money, might as well get new clothes or join a gym. Better than blowing it on booze and strippers.

Yesterday I went to the gym. Spent an hour on the treadmill. It was the longest hour I can remember. It's not going to bring her back, but I lost 330 calories for me! 

Looking at the pretty, fit younger women that I have absolutely no chance with is still better than sitting around thinking about her.

But who knows. If I drop a few and tone up maybe I'll meet a fit, pretty woman my age. That's definitely better than sitting around thinking about someone who doesn't want me.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> Really depressed tonight been drinking alot, listening to some dark music. I am 39, people tell me i look 30 and i will be fine but that doesnt stop the pain and negative thoughts. I was already in a bad mental state before my separation, how do you stop the negative thoughts. Stop drinking for three weeks, but went to nola and got hammered two nights and back at it tonight, takes the pain away. I am not healthy, can function, but not mentally healthy at the moment. I said i would change for her, and quit drinking, but it doesnt matter to her apparently, she came over tonight and we watched a movie but we ar still apart. I just want to give her a romantic kiss and **** her brains out to show i love her.


Why not show yourself some love and respect.

Quit drinking.

I promise you that it will kill two birds with one stone.

Put the focus on you, not your wife right now.


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## AFPhoenix (Dec 24, 2013)

You regressed....I did the other night as well. Drop the bottle. It does not stop the pain it actually multiplies it. When you find yourself dwelling on the negative thoughts, pick up the phone and call a friend, or go to the gym and run like hell or punch the crap out of a heavy bag. I'm sure I'm going to find myself regressing too. I just hope that each time between these lapses grow. Take it day to day. Drop the bottle.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Ceegee said:


> There's never a point if no return.
> 
> People get remarried all the time.
> 
> Whether you choose to or not is up to you.


wow, ceegee......this surprises me that you see this as viable......I guess I'm just soo far from that being a possibility that I have a hard time even considering it......


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

A progress report:

I had an excellent morning. My legs and feet are sore from yesterday's gym visit. I'm giving myself today off.

I went to bible study this morning and then Sunday worship. It's funny how the same message comes to you over and over, whether through church, family, or even here at TAM. Listen and you'll hear!

Just had an awesome lunch. I've reached a first since D-Day #2: I'm looking forward to something--going to the gym after work. I'm thinking a half hour of cardio and a half hour of swimming. 

My sadness, when it comes, isn't for me anymore, it's for her. I feel bad about her patterns. She'll just go on and on marrying and divorcing men. With her it's always someone else's fault. It must get easier to do each time, as if she's closing a checking account. I don't think like that. I don't believe in that. I can't control that. I'll choose better next time.

I'm blessed. I got away relatively unscathed compared with husbands #1 and #2. And I'm not like her; I don't hate. My conscience is clean.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Pictureless, you sound like your doing great, congrats man, you sound strong as hell, i hope to be in your shoes one day real soon. I am gonna go hit some weights now, just got done detailing my shower.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Booze does not sound as if it is your friend

in my "fall from grace" it was....when I hit bottom

I would be glad to explain this to you but

drinking to dull the pain, will not help you

everything which has happened, you have to face

as ugly and gruesome as it is

this ugliness is where you will find your attractiveness back

you can continue this and realize in March, you are right 

where you were in early February..... do you want that? Didn't think so.

I don't have the lumber pick but I'm sure Conrad will drop it

We're all guys, we have those moments. 

For the next few weeks, try to stay away from the bottle


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Chuck thanks for your response, i hit the weights tonight once my son went to his mothers and also hit the road bike trainer damn i feel good and strong tonight. I have lost so much weight worrying about this **** i could easily get in the best shape of my life. Get ripped for some young honey down the road and first and foremost for myself. I need to get off the Marlboro's as well. I am in a better spot tonight. Will focus on fitness, eating right, you guys are a hell of a support network. Don't know what i would done without you, would be lost as hell. I really need to do the full 180, and quit this partial 180, more like an 85 bull****. Thanks fellas! And keep it coming!


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Get ripped for YOU

I can so relate to your earlier posts.....

my trip with the bottle is different and some...frown on it

it got results..... I used to drink when I wrote

was not long before, the bottle began to drink from me

I put it down for a good while ........ 

I work out to Rocky IV soundtrack

but this goes back to my surgery as a teen

keep climbing the mountain


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Betrayedone said:


> wow, ceegee......this surprises me that you see this as viable......I guess I'm just soo far from that being a possibility that I have a hard time even considering it......



Ha. Well, when you've put in the work people notice. People want to be with you. 

X fell for you once she can fall for you again. 

The point is to become the MAN you want to be and you'll have options.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Folks, as you know I am attempting to save my marriage, wife separate four weeks ago, I can't be for sure she is seeing someone although it is a possibility and usually turns out that way from all the post I have read here. My wife has been throwing me some scraps, we watched a movie on Saturday night, ate dinner on Sunday, all small talk crap, she is still very distant and I have not brought up our relationship. What I need to know is should I get her something for valentines day or ask her to dinner or make any effort at all, also, her bday is two days after valentines day, should I even put forth the effort to do anything. My bday was two weeks ago and all she did was call and wish me a happy bday. I know it looks as if I am weak and hanging on but if I don't do **** do I seal my fate.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hesitationmarks said:


> Folks, as you know I am attempting to save my marriage, wife separate four weeks ago, I can't be for sure she is seeing someone although it is a possibility and usually turns out that way from all the post I have read here. My wife has been throwing me some scraps, we watched a movie on Saturday night, ate dinner on Sunday, all small talk crap, she is still very distant and I have not brought up our relationship. What I need to know is should I get her something for valentines day or ask her to dinner or make any effort at all, also, her bday is two days after valentines day, should I even put forth the effort to do anything. My bday was two weeks ago and all she did was call and wish me a happy bday. I know it looks as if I am weak and hanging on but if I don't do **** do I seal my fate.


Get something small just in case.

If she gives you something, you'll be prepared.

If she doesn't, the hell with her.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

And I would give her what she gave you for your bday.

Just do the same.....


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

damn........ world class answers HM n C-rad


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Guys, I need advice right now, I have been talking with a brazzilian girl on a dating site am suppose to meet her tomorrow night for a date. I was suppose to meet my wife tonight (Friday) for a "friends" night out. She called at the last minute, I missed the call, left a message saying she had some urgent work to do for her job, state job child protective services, which I guess I believe. Anyhow, I texted her back saying that "Got your message, I got men's group tomorrow night, can you watch our son. We can keep him tonight. Oh well I tried. Thanks for letting me know". My dad was with me and said you did everything you could. Anyway, we go out to eat and 30-mins later my wife calls back balling saying she wanted to go so bad. I said in a stuttering manner that I want us to go, she was still emotional as hell, crying, so I thing there is something still there. Am I too naïve, so my response later that night via text was lets go tomorrow (sat) night, however this would mean I would need to break off my date with the Brazilian girl who I don't even know but kind of like her. What the frick should I do, please response immediately Conrad, whoever is out there. I will also see my wife at baseball practice, I haven't seen her in some time, I wonder is she is missing me. Am I a lap dog, should I play hard ball and go out with the girl who is 8 years younger than me. WFT so confused.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Either try reconciling with your wife, or date. Trying to do both is just going to mess up both things. And you've only been separated for a month... Are you in a state that is healthy? Speaking of states, have you checked with your lawyer that you're ok to date?

C


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Your only a lapdog when it is a "friends" date with your wife.

What does your wife want? From you? From the marriage?

What is she so upset about? She is the one that moved out.

Why not get answers from her so you can resolve your marriage before going on any dates with the Brazilian hottie???

HM


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

HM is right about the friend date

you are separated and who chose the separation?

go out with new gal, tell W you had prior commitment

you should never leave your life on hold to pacify

the very person who slung you into the misery bucket

she is free to date, as are you

but if you heard her tell it ........


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hesitationmarks said:


> Guys, I need advice right now, I have been talking with a brazzilian girl on a dating site am suppose to meet her tomorrow night for a date. I was suppose to meet my wife tonight (Friday) for a "friends" night out. She called at the last minute, I missed the call, left a message saying she had some urgent work to do for her job, state job child protective services, which I guess I believe. Anyhow, I texted her back saying that "Got your message, I got men's group tomorrow night, can you watch our son. We can keep him tonight. Oh well I tried. Thanks for letting me know". My dad was with me and said you did everything you could. Anyway, we go out to eat and 30-mins later my wife calls back balling saying she wanted to go so bad. I said in a stuttering manner that I want us to go, she was still emotional as hell, crying, so I thing there is something still there. Am I too naïve, so my response later that night via text was lets go tomorrow (sat) night, however this would mean I would need to break off my date with the Brazilian girl who I don't even know but kind of like her. What the frick should I do, please response immediately Conrad, whoever is out there. I will also see my wife at baseball practice, I haven't seen her in some time, I wonder is she is missing me. Am I a lap dog, should I play hard ball and go out with the girl who is 8 years younger than me. WFT so confused.


Tell your wife you have plans.

Go on the date.

But, don't do anything physical.

Your wife still has done nothing to show you she wants you. All she's showing right now is that she doesn't want someone else to have you.

That's not nearly enough.

Keep us posted.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

The friend zone is a bad place for a man to be in a dating scenario and worse off in a marriage or LTR. All friend zone means is a man's resources (time, money, committment, listening, etc..) given with no sexual reciprocity. 

Redonkulous.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

helolover said:


> The friend zone is a bad place for a man to be in a dating scenario and worse off in a marriage or LTR. All friend zone means is a man's resources (time, money, committment, listening, etc..) given with no sexual reciprocity.
> 
> Redonkulous.


Men should love themselves enough not to submit to this crap.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

women trade sex for attention

men trade attention for sex

in friend zone you give attention for no sex


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Hey guys been a while since i update my sit. Basically, i had a date set up with the wife and she cancelled just before due to work via a voicemail, i texted her back "i understand you have to meet work commitments, oh well i tried". At first i was like that is such BS to my dad, he was in town and we were taking my son to the store. We went to the local sports bar for dinner, and my dad could see i was in a defeated mood, i was most certainly going out with the Brazilian the next night, f'it right. Well then my wife calls me while eating balling on the phone saying she really wanted to go tonight but work had ....... And she had to go in. At first i said i had mens group night out and could not reschedule, obviously i could not tell her i was going out with a Brazilian i had been texting, i guess i could have, lol. Anyway i ended up going out with the wife, we initially passionately kissed when i picked her up. After dinner, we went back to her place and i put the moves on her and we ended up in the bedroom, at first i thought she would resist and then it was on. I have tried to get her to let me come over so we can hook up since then but she is still keeping her space (our main issue in marriage was intimacy). She now says she wants to work on the marriage, i have cut my drinking down considerable and quit taking Zoloft, cold, i know u are not suppose to do that but oh well. We have a cabin rental in two weeks, just her, me and our son for two nights. Anyway, i am feeling better, spirits are up, if she had someone else would she be doing all of this with me? Is this fools gold or does it sound lime i am turning the corner towards reconciliation with her.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hesitationmarks said:


> Hey guys been a while since i update my sit. Basically, i had a date set up with the wife and she cancelled just before due to work via a voicemail, i texted her back "i understand you have to meet work commitments, oh well i tried". At first i was like that is such BS to my dad, he was in town and we were taking my son to the store. We went to the local sports bar for dinner, and my dad could see i was in a defeated mood, i was most certainly going out with the Brazilian the next night, f'it right. Well then my wife calls me while eating balling on the phone saying she really wanted to go tonight but work had ....... And she had to go in. At first i said i had mens group night out and could not reschedule, obviously i could not tell her i was going out with a Brazilian i had been texting, i guess i could have, lol. Anyway i ended up going out with the wife, we initially passionately kissed when i picked her up. After dinner, we went back to her place and i put the moves on her and we ended up in the bedroom, at first i thought she would resist and then it was on. I have tried to get her to let me come over so we can hook up since then but she is still keeping her space (our main issue in marriage was intimacy). She now says she wants to work on the marriage, i have cut my drinking down considerable and quit taking Zoloft, cold, i know u are not suppose to do that but oh well. We have a cabin rental in two weeks, just her, me and our son for two nights. Anyway, i am feeling better, spirits are up, if she had someone else would she be doing all of this with me? Is this fools gold or does it sound lime i am turning the corner towards reconciliation with her.


When she texts you, how long does it take you to answer?

And, to answer your question directly.

She could most certainly be having sex with you and with posOM. Disordered people crave the drama where they get to "choose" between the new and exciting posOM and the safety of "plan B"

Guess how that works out?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

hubby in the afternoon....send him on his way

posom in the evening, spend the night...I am so desired

it would be great if they both came over and.....

yes....pure hypothetical but as Conrad stated,

with people who have disorders.... it's all a game


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I appreciate all the support and advice provide from my post. I have an update to my situation and would like to share and ask for additional advice. After a lot of effort on my part and a reconnection to my wife she has returned home and has been here for well over a month. I ask her if she is happy and she assures me she is and want to be with me. We are looking at buying a new home closer to her work and selling our current property. Our sex life is good, we had intimacy issues prior which may have triggered her leaving me, see previous posts for info. I am trying my hardest to connect with her on an emotional intimacy level and think I am doing the best job I can. I still have a few concerns that may or may not be warrant. I am severely insecure about the two younger guys she works with and supervises. I have a previously taped conversation where she was discussing a guy from work with a co-worker when this first began. She indicated on the call that she had not seen or spoke with him all week and "it sucks". I assume it is her co-worker and she is the mans supervisor but never confirmed or brought up to her the taped conversation, for obvious reasons. While it could of just been an innocent talk about guys at work with her girlfriend it nonetheless disturbed me and got me obsessing over it. I may remind you that his was in the initial stages of our separation right before she moved out, five months ago approximately. My wife often brings up her conversations with the two younger guys at work and they seem really harmless and she has to interact with them as she supervises their work. However, this really makes me insecure because I have the taped conversation from our troubled period talking about a dude at work and how it sucked she hadn't seen or talked to him all week. We are having sex several times a week, she seems satisfied. A few times I did not satisfy her, if you know what I mean. Am I just being insecure, do I have a right to be, is this normal, I have always been a paranoid type of person. Anyway, should I trust my wife enough to plan on a new home purchase, am I being too damn insecure? The fact is she is here back home we are doing good on the surface, she wants to move with me so that appears to be a commitment to the marriage, we are sleeping together in the same bed. She seems happy. I just wonder if she is thinking about another man when we have sex or something to that effect. She also lost a lot of weight and looks damn good and dresses really well for work, so I get insecure at that but that is the age we live in. Everyone wants to look their best. Please provide advice, you can say I am nuts anything will help. She is fairly impulsive, I just don't know if she is sincerely in love with me or just going through the path of least resistance and something may occur down the road. I am one of the lucky ones to get my wife back but just want to know it's real. Thanks ya'll


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

are you both seeing a MC


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Buying a new home at this juncture would be foolish. You have a long road ahead of you to reconcile and before you add additional stressors and distractions as buying major purchases you should concentrate of repairing the marriage first and it sounds like your doing everything but that. Sex and her seeming to be happy is not reconciliation


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

honcho said:


> Buying a new home at this juncture would be foolish. You have a long road ahead of you to reconcile and before you add additional stressors and distractions as buying major purchases you should concentrate of repairing the marriage first and it sounds like your doing everything but that. Sex and her seeming to be happy is not reconciliation


:iagree:
Slow down.
Make sure there is nothing going on anymore with the coworker.
VAR in her car for the near future.
Please just make sure.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

I agree with Tom.

Var in the car.

Can you buy the new home and put it in your name?

If your wife has an issue with that just remind her that she is the one that walked away and you just want to protect yourself.

Be smart. Trust your gut, not your paranoia.

If you have that gut feeling, listen to it, investigate and put your mind at ease.

HM

PS
How are you doing with not drinking? What steps have you taken to deal with your issues long term?

And how is your son doing?

Glad you came back and updated us.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

were the issues which separated both of you addressed?

you will be right back here shortly if not, MC

if trust is beginning again.... hold off on the house

dude, wish you'd have posted here while you and her R

we all want whatever you want, regardless

but want you to step back in much more healthy and 

enlightened


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> were the issues which separated both of you addressed?
> 
> you will be right back here shortly if not, MC
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

hesitationmarks said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am so damn concerned she is going to leave again although she says she is happy. Got her back, what now how do I ensure I keep her. I have been trying to show her more emotional intimacy, hugs kisses, etc. I really love her man. I put my arm around her today and she said to me "why are you being so touchy, I am not used to this and she looked into my eyes". I asked her does it feel right and she said yes. Just confused man, want to make sure she is in it for the love between her and i. I have cut my drinking out and she won't do marriage counseling with me says she doesn't believe in it. Maybe I am being too much of a pansy but i really want to connect with her on an emotional level, like in the movies. Does that really exists? Geeze guys, I am worse off now than when she was gone worrying about us. How do I keep it going show I truly love her and have her fall completely in love with me. Life is something else isn't it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> I am so damn concerned she is going to leave again although she says she is happy. Got her back, what now how do I ensure I keep her. I have been trying to show her more emotional intimacy, hugs kisses, etc. I really love her man. I put my arm around her today and she said to me "why are you being so touchy, I am not used to this and she looked into my eyes". I asked her does it feel right and she said yes. Just confused man, want to make sure she is in it for the love between her and i. I have cut my drinking out and she won't do marriage counseling with me says she doesn't believe in it. Maybe I am being too much of a pansy but i really want to connect with her on an emotional level, like in the movies. Does that really exists? Geeze guys, I am worse off now than when she was gone worrying about us. How do I keep it going show I truly love her and have her fall completely in love with me. Life is something else isn't it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



No it doesn't really exist the way it does in the movies. 

You're living in fear hoping you can make her feel for you the way you feel for her. 

Not going to work my friend. 

What have you done to work on yourself?

Done any reading?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Little story.... I sounded just like you, after the break up of my 1st and 2nd 

love. I did the begging n pleading. It didn't work. I gathered myself and

moved on. The exact minute they knew or felt I was getting involved with

someone else, they came at me like a freight train. You have to some times

let it go... to get it back. All she knows is she can lead you around

holding your nads. Yes....she knows it. She will now expect you to not

only jump but ask how high. You got her back.... but how do you feel?

All not lost, CG mentioned reading material. I recommend backing away 

and recapturing your manhood. If you post here we can help you.

Baby steps..... slow but steady. Hopefully the outcome will remain

but you change the landscape for your sanity and manhood.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

It is a bad sign she won't go to couples counseling. It means there is something she is hiding. It could be anything, and it might not be important to you at all, but it is something she fears will be revealed.

Couples counseling for you is a good idea in my opinion. Make an appointment at a time she will be available. Tell her about the appointment and invite her to be there. You go whether or not she shows up, but chances are she will show up.

Then observe if she is making an effort to do the work. Does she talk openly in the counseling sessions? Does she work on the difficult topics or does she try to avoid them? Does she do the homework assignments the counselor gives her?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Read the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover.

There are good support forums over on No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group - Powered by vBulletin . You won't be met with kid gloves though, it is a straight shooting bunch over there who challenge you.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> Little story.... I sounded just like you, after the break up of my 1st and 2nd
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I completely agree with recapturing manhood. 

Exactly where I was going. 

Some reading material will point this out and explain why (MMSL for example).


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Thanks fellas, keep the advice coming. I will read married man sex life, researched several months ago but never committed to buying. I agree with everything you guys said, I have lost my manhood. I am sure it's unattractive, I even have ***** way that I talk to her, right now I am just as you say, jump where how high. Man this is almost worse than being separated. The fact is something happened in my childhood, father neglect whatever, that I never matured as a masculine person. I feel as if I lost so much weight that I am a skinny mofo that can't put on any muscle mass. Lost a significant amount of hair also, on rogaine and propecia, laser comb to hopefully get it back. Worst year ever man! I guess I needed this though with my drinking and what not. Thanks everyone for chiming in.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Dump the Rogaine and Propecia! It can mess with your hormones. Find a haircut which neuters whatever baldness pattern you have. Shave your head, or get a crew cut, or do a pony tail. Grow a mustache. I dunno what works for your hair and head, look at some magazines. Women generally don't care about balding as long as you're not doing a combover or painting your scalp black to cover a bald spot.

You've probably heard it a bunch of times but it is true, there are many very masculine men who are sex symbols who have significant baldness. If you show confidence rather than insecurity about your hair you will be seen as masculine.

No More Mr. Nice Guy may be a better starting point for you than MMSL.

Start a serious health and fitness program. A personal trainer will help tremendously. Probably something like once per week for a couple of months, then once every month for a while. A trainer can show you how to safely and effectively lift weights so that you don't blow out your back or knees.

Your body may never be able to put on gobs of muscle but you can always increase your muscle mass and improve your physical condition. You'll feel great, which translates into confidence and a happy mood.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Embrace your imperfections.

Who is one of the ugliest mofo's on the planet? Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones. Yet he has no problem getting women. Men admire him. The guy has confidence and swagger despite being a fairly hideous looking man. Hell, the guy is a horrible singer from a technical standpoint, yet he is one of the most successful singers in history because of his confident delivery.

Just work on the things you have control over, and screw the rest of it. You're perfectly imperfect just like the rest of us. Be authentic to yourself and you'll be happier than ever.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

When I was in high school, I had brain surgery.... left deep scars in front

of ears. Yeah I was self-conscience about it. I guess I was around 30...

I stopped having the "Elvis side burns" and embraced the scars as battle

wounds. Women ate it up (what happened, etc). As Thor said, UBU

If your W is disturbed by balding men, that is her problem. Let her date

an Oxy-10 kid with a full head of hair. Dude this is about you. Just for 

chits n grins, shave your entire head. Every ounce of power you feel she 

has.....you gave it to her. I am sure we would have 2x4'd you if you had 

kept posting. Dust yourself off, grab a beer, we will re-work your charisma.

Could you give an expanded description of your childhood you mentioned?

I always make it a point to ask, as did Conrad. Matter of fact, how was her

childhood?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

So here's a little story I've posted before. I'll try to keep it short.

A few years ago at my daughter's Christmas concert (yes they can still have those at private schools) the whole choir was on stage. One of the senior boys stepped forward to the mic for a solo of a Christmas carol. I forget which one, but a common one with several verses that normally people only sing the first verse. The choir moves to the sides of the stage, the auditorium is full of 500 parents, siblings, and schoolmates.

The pianist starts playing, the boy starts singing. He gets through the first verse and chorus, then starts the second verse. He forgets one of the lines but fakes it with "La la la", but then stops the pianist. He says he forgot the line, wait a minute. He thinks for a moment and then tells the pianist to start over.

He gets to the same place in the song and ... forgets the words again!!! He stops the pianist, laughs a little and says he forgot it again. In a moment he tells the pianist to start over again.

The third time he got all the way through the song without forgetting any words.

The entire audience erupts in cheers and applause for the 17 yr old boy. The girls all go up to him and give him a hug or a smile. The boys give him some friendly grief and some punch him on the shoulder or give him a High 5.

This kid screwed up about as badly as is possible yet he was loved and admired by all. His imperfection is what set him apart in a good way.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Before my divorce (read, while my wife was cheating on me) I had zero self confidence. 

I was bald, bespectacled, a little overweight and my image had been beaten down to nothing. 

During the divorce I started hanging out with my old friends again. Going out and raising hell. Playing basketball, fishing, etc. 

Women began approaching me. Women in their 20's, 30's & 40's - I am 42. I wasn't ready for anything serious but I was beginning to believe I was going to be fine. I began to believe in myself. 

So, when I met this one woman that piqued my interest I was ready. I had no problem whatsoever talking to her, asking her out, kissing her, etc.

We've been together 10 months now. She's says it was my confidence that attracted her. 

Confidence cannot be overstated in a man's appeal and allure.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Ceegee said:


> Before my divorce (read, while my wife was cheating on me) I had zero self confidence.
> 
> I was bald, bespectacled, a little overweight and my image had been beaten down to nothing.
> 
> ...


And I recall the little scared CG

I haven't seen him in a long time


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Two things women care about a lot less than men: hairline and penis size. It's like breast size: sure there are a few men that care but most appreciate all breast sizes, especially when naked. If you happen to have one of the very few that cares about hair get another one. But do make sure the rest of you is fit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Guys this is some great advice and I will certainly need all I get muster from you. I have an update, a turn for the worse between me and the wife. I thought everything was going well till last night. I have been stressed so much about her moving back in it is really making me go nuts. We attempted to have sex last night and my penis went limp which I believe is all stress related of me trying to satisfy her. I don't believe it is the propecia. She said don't worry about it we'll try again tomorrow. I was really upset that it occurred and apologized to her. Anyway, we have been moving strong and fast will selling our house and looking for a new one closer to her work. Our house will sell probably within a few days and the thought was we would buy a new one and reconcile. Last night she dropped a bombshell about us, see we had a potential house buy fall through just recently. She said that maybe that is a sign and she wanted to slow, she said maybe we should rent and see how it goes. We she began crying and I asked why the change of heart with us and she said she is confused and wants to seek IC. I said are you having a change of heart about us and she said emotionally her heart shutdown 2 Years ago. I asked her if she though I could soften her heart back towards me and she started crying and said I don't know. She then said once my mind is made up it's made up. In a nutshell, she seems unsure if we are right for each other even though we have been together for 17 years. She said maybe we have grown apart. I said I would spend every waking minute if every day to break through to her battered heart. We both started crying. I asked when she started getting second thoughts and she indicates about two weeks ago. Have I damaged her beyond repair where she will not let me back into her heart. She says she still wants to try but is it a mute point. I thought we were doing well but apparently not as well as I thought. Can a women's hardened heart be unhardened fellas. Wtf do I do now, cut my losses and move on. It hurts again so damn bad. Feeling like I did when she first left. She said she detached emotionally 2 years ago.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## movealong (Aug 9, 2013)

My STBXW said the same thing. After working my backside off for over a year, I finally told her that I couldn't live like this anymore. If you can't, won't, and are not WILLING to work on us, then you need to tell me. It is far better to be slapped with the truth than cushioned with a lie. Truth will set you free, literally and figuratively. 

Tell her what you want, tell her what you are willing to do, then tell her that you need to know if she is in or out.

If she is out, then it saves you from another 3 months or longer of waiting for the other shoe to drop.

You can't change her by being nice, understanding, congenial, or anything else. All you can do is change you.

Remember the guy you were when she met you? Yea, he's still in there. Go and dig through those memories of you when she was falling for you. Go back to being YOU. If she doesn't come around, it is not on you.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Stop chasing her so hard. It makes you unattractive. YOU are the prize, not her.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

We have a child together, I love that little fellow. If we split, I won't see him as much, he is 9.5 YEars old
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

cancel the house looking

when it's stressful for her to move IN

that's your gut telling you something


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Fellas, the wife finally told me last night there was nothing there and it's over. I believe she wants a divorce. I feel like hell, tried my best to win her back over the last several months. She actually came back home, but really wasn't there. She just isn't there emotionally. Checked out. It's amazing to me how they can just give up without even trying counseling, it's just over. What the hell do I do now? Scared folks. Hopeless. How did you snap out of this phase quickly. What to do. We will likely move and get two smaller homes so we can both be near our son in his new school district. I just need help snapping out of this phase, I feel like I could just fall apart and still have a good career and son.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

So be proactive.

Make a promise to yourself that you will not let a divorce spin you into depression.

Make a list of what needs to be done.

A. Get an attorney.
B. Work out separation/ divorce proceedings?
C. Keep primary focus on me and our son.
D. Keep up my mental health fitness so I can be the best man/ father I can be.
E. Replace my wife with someone better in due time.

So take the bull by the horns. If your wife is checked out then check her out of your life and put the focus back on you and your son.

The future is bright if you let it be.

HM


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hes..... you are where you were before, with more knowledge than

before false R. No need to be depressed over her, you went though 

that earlier this year. Follow what HM said above. But..... I want 

you to be honest Hes.... as you look back over the last few months

can you pinpoint a time when you realized, she was back for her own

personal gain?


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Need legal advice, I am ready for the divorce, its over, i feel peace that I did everything and the wife has an EA or worse and I was never happy with her anyway, but I stood in there like a nice guy dbag and tried to save marriage regardless. She says she is emotional detached, well no **** so was I, but I played the whole it's all my fault game. I am in a predicament. I make about 102K a year and she makes about 55K. I live in North Texas. I want to go for a 50/50 split child custody but understand judges don't neccesarily like to do that. The wife appears to be onboard with this. My child support to her would be a differential (47K) in salary's approx. 20 percent of net following taxes and social security. We have a home that just sold, we will make about 60K of the sell. Right now she has an apartment and I have no where to got yet. She want's us to both buy smaller homes in the same area so the 50/50 would work. The judge may screw me anyway and I get the standard possession order, where she gets the kid 10/14 days every two weeks. Should I jump through her hoops right now and move in the same school district or do something different. I really dont want her to get the standard possession order and I have to give her fckn 20 percent of my gross, it would sicken me. She would be living larger than me. Do I make the move or say f'it it she has the power no more and get an apt and file in our county or move to the other county and play nice guy, get a house nearby her. What to do, please help. The house closes sale in two weeks. Need help, will talk to a lawyer in the next few days, free consult.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I do want to support my kid, trust me, not trying to get out of it. She plays words with friends all fckn night and would be horrible for a nine year old boy to stay with every night. She sleeps alot, depressed I think. I honestly think I am the better parent for my son, she is aloof.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Your X sounds a lot like mine, depressed, sleeps all the time, lives for FB.

You must do what you feel is right but..... 50 /50 is #1 priority. The 

10 out of 14 days.... sorry this is not 1974. You should not be 

delegated to every other weekend and a Thursday night at Mike's

Pizza Parlor. See an attorney with teeth, ask around, google local

city blogs, ask relatives. Then secure your assets. She is fully 

aware she is going to get child support and spousal support from 

you...... maybe just enough to where she doesn't have to work.

She can sit at home, play words with friends, have revolving guys

over and ..... maybe throw in a frozen pizza for your son. Bet the 

farm the men coming over will get better food. This may have been

her long term exit plan all along. She wants you to live close by, to 

maintain some form of control over you. Hesi..... I don't want to be 

all gloom n doom but when you do the child swap, she will make 

sure you see her "new man". Best to move where you feel 

comfortable. Go ahead and set up a 50 / 50 co-parenting plan ASAP.

If it is working come D final, judge will be very apt to keep it at that.

But....... she will agree only if..... you start the child support and 

spousal support (if applicable in TX). I'm not saying she will quit her

job or take extended medical leave but..... she might. She seems 

the type to do so. The sooner this is done, sooner you can start your

life over, with your son.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

be wary of setting up 50 /50 schedule. If she enrolls him in a summer

program for a week, it will be her week, not yours. Let me 

recommend a current thread with a guy dealing with co-parenting

issues and a non-reasonable spouse

LBHmidwest 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/155905-20-years-smoke.html


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Be there for your child 50/50 great if you can swing it.


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

hesitationmarks said:


> I do want to support my kid, trust me, not trying to get out of it. She plays words with friends all fckn night and would be horrible for a nine year old boy to stay with every night. She sleeps alot, depressed I think. I honestly think I am the better parent for my son, she is aloof.


I live in NTX... there are a few things that i know about the 50/50 and i can share with you. PM plz .. I have a really good Attorney, Freaking slow but i think thats just the process of it all. spousal support in Tx sucks, and it dose not happen alot, i dont have to pay it as we are about 20K differance in pay per yr. standard CS is 20% in TexA$$, but i have been lucky that she dont want that much so i have been paying about 17% and she covers the health Insurance. PM me and we can talk and i can give you mt attorneys #


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

Oh, if you need a place to crash for a few days i have a extra bed room you can use.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

hesitationmarks said:


> Need legal advice, I am ready for the divorce, its over, i feel peace that I did everything and the wife has an EA or worse and I was never happy with her anyway, but I stood in there like a nice guy dbag and tried to save marriage regardless.


Your lawyer is your best resource. Until you can get to him/her, go visit the website dadsdivorce dot com. There is a lot of useful information in there on documenting your parenting. Look for "The List" which has tons of great ideas, some of which may relate to your situation.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I find myself at a bar and don't know anyone, just sitting up here having a beer, no girls and bunch of dudes, it's lame how the hell you get out if the divorce blues. **** I need a date or something, I am in North texas any you bastards want to go out this weekend or Thursday. I'm a beta male bro, how you get your alpha back after your wife stole it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

It's damn pathetic but what else do I do sit at home all night. I'm the oldest bastard here. What did you guys do, I feel like I need a date or something to fill a hole. People tell me I'm good looking and I make a chunk of change but I feel invisible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

women can sense a man's uncertainty


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Stop hanging out in places with "no girls and a bunch of dudes", first off. Go to the gym, take up running, find a few meetup groups. Sitting in the bar feeling lonely and sorry for yourself isn't going to solve anything.

C


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I believe that is true, but give me a path out of this, to a more energetic positive frame of mind. I took the whole week off at home after dday #2. I felt okay for a few days and now I am depressed seeking attention from someone I guess. Someone to know I'm still here, I exist, I am not invisible. What cures this despair? How did you beat it, my support system is in other states, I have a few friends here but they are busy with their life's. What am I seeking? I need to feel good and loved again. Please help me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

time......................... be positive, slam a few beers with the guys

usually small groups of females are more apt to approach small group

of guys


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Get into sports and working out. If you get into CrossFit or wall climbing or kayaking, you'll make friends and gain confidence. Where do you live? By the coast? Take up scuba diving.

Join a Meetup group.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

hesitationmarks said:


> I believe that is true, but give me a path out of this, to a more energetic positive frame of mind. I took the whole week off at home after dday #2. I felt okay for a few days and now I am depressed seeking attention from someone I guess. Someone to know I'm still here, I exist, I am not invisible. What cures this despair? How did you beat it, my support system is in other states, I have a few friends here but they are busy with their life's. What am I seeking? I need to feel good and loved again. Please help me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Seeking love in this frame of mind is not a good idea, IMHO. You're much more likely to find yourself in a bad relationship than a good one. 

You've been given a couple suggestions to start working out. You haven't responded to those. Start with those?

Have you considered counselling?

C


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

Chk your PM...


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Stop drinking. It doesn't help. Improve your diet and nutrition. Take a good vitamin daily, drink lots of water, cut out the caffeine and sugary drinks. Get regular exercise even if it is just walking the dog every day. Vigorous exercise is great if your health allows it.

Try 50mg of 5-HTP mid afternoon, and then again in the evening. If after a week you don't feel better, up the dose to 100 mg at those two times. It is a natural substance which boosts neurotransmitters. It is shown to be at least as effective as Rx anti-depressants.

Read the book "The Mood Cure" for more in depth info on the 5-HTP and other natural supplements to help get your moods back in balance. The supplements are cheap and safe.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Update: wife and I are getting separate houses. She has gotten very angry lately when she is the one causing all this ****. Is this normal fellas, what do I look out for? This is some bull****, I just want to tell her to F-off but want to keep it civil for the future divorce and my sons sake.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Guys, me and my wife are buying separate homes and are still married, is it freaking over, i mean slap me in the face and tell me its over and i should file for divorce. Is there any hope, does anyone come back once this step is put in place. Realistically, no one has filed and the other night she said we can see if things get better but am i fooling myself thinking that is the case. The thing is i don't want to file right now until she gets settled because the damn judge may order spousal support or something. What is my next move, am i a co-dependant bastard that just does not know when to give up. ****in ridiculous. TBH i don't even know if i want her back anymore, i guess i do though or would not be posting on this site at midnight, lol. Read post above too.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> Update: wife and I are getting separate houses. She has gotten very angry lately when she is the one causing all this ****. Is this normal fellas, what do I look out for? This is some bull****, I just want to tell her to F-off but want to keep it civil for the future divorce and my sons sake.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


she is angry she is not getting her way

they usually flip a gasket when their extensive plan

on leaving fails to turn out as the wished

give her exactly what she wants..... a D

serve her...... yes you will get a reaction

incomewise in %, how much does she earn compared to you


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> Guys, me and my wife are buying separate homes and are still married, is it freaking over, i mean slap me in the face and tell me its over and i should file for divorce. Is there any hope, does anyone come back once this step is put in place. Realistically, no one has filed and the other night she said we can see if things get better but am i fooling myself thinking that is the case. The thing is i don't want to file right now until she gets settled because the damn judge may order spousal support or something. What is my next move, am i a co-dependant bastard that just does not know when to give up. ****in ridiculous. TBH i don't even know if i want her back anymore, i guess i do though or would not be posting on this site at midnight, lol. Read post above too.


step 1-seek IC help. you receive negative treatment equal to

the amount you allow. Someone had a Co-Dep link on here...

Conrad had it but, does anyone else?


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Sounds like its time for a classic 180...


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I make 102 K she makes 55K
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

you are at the point where you are going to have to kill the M to have 

the remotest chance of saving it. IMO, why would you? After what 

you have posted, I would leave skid marks in the driveway getting out.

Review my post #123 and happyman's the page before.

This EXACT cycle WILL continue, until YOU put a stop to it.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

I think you are getting the cart in front of the horse. Don't buy a house, when your environment is so volatile. All you need is a two bedroom apartment in the same school district. You are already selling the house, see an attorney and get the ball rolling on the divorce, establish a temporary visitation agreement and then sit back for a second.

Let her buy her house if that is what she wants to do with her money. Separate your finances and concentrate your efforts on you and your son. Later after divorce is final, then you can worry about buying a house. In the mean time make your time with your son count, take him fishing, camping, bowling, etc and enjoy your time together. This will help him and you through a difficult period.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I'd hold off on buying anything until you get some stability, as others have posted. But what kind of house can she afford on 55k a year? Just curious, mostly...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Buying a cheap ass house for DFW 137k with 20 percent down. Renting is more expensive here it's outrageous. She says the love for me is not there right now. I told her again I still love her which I do. Maybe if she sees pasture are not greener she will come back. What are my chances though slim to none? I know I know I am a sucker for my wife, we have 15 years together in marriage. Chuck I know that's what I need to do, just can't pull the trigger. Chuck: I make 102k she is at 55k I believe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

given the way she has treated you, since you started this thread....

what would be a reason to stay? She does not find you attractive 

anymore. Do you want to be a Plan B?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Don't tell her you love her, man. You're at the school dance in junior high. You ask a girl to dance. She turns you down and immediately looks away. Are you going back to ask again two songs later?

Go 180 and be hard to get. Make the D as easy as possible by detaching. If in a few months time she starts flirting you should still be inaccessible. If she wants you back, she must chase you.

Wait till you go out with other women.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I think we all talk big and strong once we lose our wife's on this board, i did the 180, moved on, i am banging so and so chick. But the reason we are here is to truly win our wife's back, win their hearts back regardless of their indiscretions or perceived indiscretions. I am still in that place where i would give anything to get her back, my livelihood, home, everything. The question is has anyone ever done it and what strategy worked, how does your wife fall back for you and blur out everything else, true passion love. Is this some bull**** enigma that doesn't exist, she is forty, we have a son, years together, good times and bad, surely you can win them back. What is the path to victory to have them fall back in love with you, their husband of 15 years. I know she gave warning signs i didn't pick up, i know i ****ed up alot of stuff but i am truly more aware now than i ever was, can women not see through their hurt and realize the man they loved is right in front of them and willing to die for their well being.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> *I think we all talk big and strong once we lose our wife's on this board, i did the 180, moved on, i am banging so and so chick. But the reason we are here is to truly win our wife's back, win their hearts back regardless of their indiscretions or perceived indiscretions*. I am still in that place where i would give anything to get her back, my livelihood, home, everything. The question is has anyone ever done it and what strategy worked, how does your wife fall back for you and blur out everything else, true passion love. Is this some bull**** enigma that doesn't exist, she is forty, we have a son, years together, good times and bad, surely you can win them back. What is the path to victory to have them fall back in love with you, their husband of 15 years. I know she gave warning signs i didn't pick up, i know i ****ed up alot of stuff but i am truly more aware now than i ever was, can women not see through their hurt and realize the man they loved is right in front of them and willing to die for their well being.


that is usually from the blame shifting and gaslighting.

when the other fills your head with all kinds of BS and you are

at a rare point where, you believe it. We are here to pull away

the veil. Mine was pulled away in Dec '12. I never once begged

her back, called her, stalked her. It was hard for me to come to

terms with fact, 15 years and it may be over. We guys don't 

like investing all this time and energy to see it go up in smoke.

After I profiled my then STBX as I would any one else, everything

made sense. I gave her two options, A-show her true colors 

and B-open a door to possible future R. Either way, the D was 

going to go forward. She chose A. As I was detaching... guess

who wanted to start going out, chatting on phone

It's all in my backstory, I never deleted it. She wanted me to

spend a Sunday with her, two days after D, 6 weeks after D she

wanted me to spend the weekend with her (6 weeks later she 

found her "soulmate" lol), near the one year anniversary of D

she asked me to meet her for dinner and... wanted us to start

dating (yes she was still dating "soul mate"), and has even 

reached out once again (yet to post). So yeah.... I can 

personally debunk your statement. 

As for the drinking..... a vast majority fall deeper in the rabbit

hole. A select few can drink to get their mind off of things, 

like a crumbling M. Take it for what it's worth but, you appear

to be falling down the rabbit hole.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> that is usually from the blame shifting and gaslighting.
> 
> when the other fills your head with all kinds of BS and you are
> 
> ...


How did you break free brother, how long did it take, I am so ready to be free again. How long were you depressed? What broke you finally from the chains of perceived love of your wife. Do they ever come out of the fog?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

hesitationmarks said:


> How did you break free brother, how long did it take, I am so ready to be free again. How long were you depressed? What broke you finally from the chains of perceived love of your wife. Do they ever come out of the fog?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did you have kids chuck? How bad was the divorce did it go dark during the D, did you obtain custody, what did you do wrong in the D that you now regret.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

What I did wrong in the M, I owned up to, as for her...

that was a different story. My story is here for you

to read but...it's short, blunt, to the point, drama free.

Everyone comes out of this differently. There is no set

method or someone would be a billionaire in a couple 

months. 

Let's try this..... can you tell us how you contributed

to the demise of the M? And can you add ways how

you plan to improve yourself for the future?

......... When I fell down the rabbit hole, I went on a fast,

and refrained from any alcohol consumption for the first

month. After I placed myself in a secure setting, then

I resumed my normal routine.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Fellas, I am high as a kite tonight, funny cigarettes yes. I guess I took a step back tonight as far as becoming a better person but I dont give a ****, if feels good to do something I haven't done in a decade. To all you Newbies, people will tell you to clear your mind, gain mental strength and build physical strength and become a better person during this time. While I believe this is extremely important to do these things, I also think you need to seek to let your bad boy back out, the one that got trapped when you became a beta orbital after your marriage, and succumb to all your wife's constraints. I have found that strip clubs, naughty things, weed, etc have been beneficial. I met this cool couple at a bar and bought them a few shots and in return they dropped some stash on me and came over to the house to smoke out, drink, just talk all night. It was blast reminded me of college. Damn beneficial. Thanks for listening, any thoughts?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> Fellas, I am high as a kite tonight, funny cigarettes yes. I guess I took a step back tonight as far as becoming a better person but I dont give a ****, if feels good to do something I haven't done in a decade. To all you Newbies, people will tell you to clear your mind, gain mental strength and build physical strength and become a better person during this time. While I believe this is extremely important to do these things, I also think you need to seek to let your bad boy back out, the one that got trapped when you became a beta orbital after your marriage, and succumb to all your wife's constraints. I have found that strip clubs, naughty things, weed, etc have been beneficial. I met this cool couple at a bar and bought them a few shots and in return they dropped some stash on me and came over to the house to smoke out, drink, just talk all night. It was blast reminded me of college. Damn beneficial. Thanks for listening, any thoughts?


Read your very first post about self medicating...... 

And it is beneficial to get out, unbeta and make new friends.

I could not agree with you more.

Keep the focus on you, your issues and your kid.

That is all you can control.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Read your very first post about self medicating......
> 
> And it is beneficial to get out, unbeta and make new friends.
> 
> ...


It's a temporary escape reality comes back in a hurry.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Yep reality is back, lol. I need some honest advice from fellas that have suffered WAS. How do I win in court or hopefully never go to courtroom? What gameplan do I use to win or ensure I come out with least damage. I feel my wife may go for the jugular on this divorce. Any thoughts, who are the best attorneys in north texas for this type of work. Did any of you guys lose and lose big? Any winners, the sad thing is I would take her back in a minute
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

You are behaving like a dink. 

Passive aggressive oozes from every pore.

Seriously, this is why beta/nice guys suck. They act like you.

Knock it off.

Men don't act out.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

hesitationmarks said:


> Yep reality is back, lol. I need some honest advice from fellas that have suffered WAS. How do I win in court or hopefully never go to courtroom? What gameplan do I use to win or ensure I come out with least damage. I feel my wife may go for the jugular on this divorce. Any thoughts, who are the best attorneys in north texas for this type of work. Did any of you guys lose and lose big? Any winners, the sad thing is I would take her back in a minute
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How do I win? Do I initiate first? What is the blueprint for gaining the advantage? Is there such a thing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Finding a lawyer should be your first priority. You should be talking to friends, family, etc and finding the best one you can (and can afford). Your lawyer will help you formulate a strategy.

C


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

there is a psychological benefit to filing first. for yourself you are taking control of the situation and you're dealing with reality. for the other person they have to deal with being rejected first. even if they left you filing first will hurt them. because it's amazing how many people will leave you tell you they want to divorce you and yet never make a single move to terminate the marriage. But heaven forbid you stand up and say no more and want to do it yourself. They get all pissy.

no matter what happens this is another case where you need to have firm boundaries. if divorce is inevitable you and your lawyer will work out what you feel is fair and you will propose it. should she decide she wants to try again you can do that but don't stop the divorce proceedings you can go as far as even divorcing her and get remarried. But you have to be firm that you are not going to put up with being jerked around. 

one of the reasons women walk away from a marriage is because they lost respect for their husbands. so only do things that evoke respect. & I mean self respect. make good solid decision. don't act from spite and don't quickly. be thoughtful and deliberate. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

dadsdivorce dot com has some good information. Check out the various forums. Also look for "the list" in the forums there. Not all items will apply to you but it contains a lot of ideas on what to do.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

clipclop2 said:


> You are behaving like a dink.
> 
> Passive aggressive oozes from every pore.
> 
> ...


Clip clop what do you mean men don't act out, tell me what you mean by your post, I am very interested.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You are getting good advice from Clipclop. 

Don't be needy. Don't say three sentences when one clear word will do. Don't leave discussion open, awaiting her approval. Stand up for what is necessary. By being decisive you can change her impression of you. Perhaps too late to save your marriage but not to late too change yourself. She will see the difference if she is at all perceptive.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

*Re: Re: Wife Has Separated from Marriage, Need Advice*



LongWalk said:


> You are getting good advice from Clipclop.
> 
> Don't say three sentences when one clear word will do.


That is solid advice for anyone in any situation.

Every situation.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

*Re: Re: Wife Has Separated from Marriage, Need Advice*



hesitationmarks said:


> Clip clop what do you mean men don't act out, tell me what you mean by your post, I am very interested.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Your behavior that makes you feel good is bad behavior and behavior you should be ashamed of. Doubtful you'd admit to it and that only makes you less worthy of R.

I would never go back to you.

For me that you think this way at all would confirm that you are not the right fit for me. 

If that behavior makes you feel like a man you need to do a gap analysis and figure out the real difference between you and a man, being "naughty" is so pathetic. Are you 15 getting over on your mom?


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Shoot. Sorry I was so direct and harsh. I hope you can pull the message out of that.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> Shoot. Sorry I was so direct and harsh. I hope you can pull the message out of that.


Clip it's all good


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I had posted a response the other day but deleted it

Hesi.... you are essentially back to Start

re-read your entire thread

you are getting the very same advice

she is no longer your W

she is someone who wants to hurt you

emotionally, financially.... like a burglar

if one robbed your home, took away your piece of mind

would you feel sympathy for him or unleash he!! on him?


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> I had posted a response the other day but deleted it
> 
> Hesi.... you are essentially back to Start
> 
> ...


Fellas, a month and a half into me and my wifes fake R we had sex one weekday night and she had the most horrific stentch emanating from her vagina. Almost a rotting fish odor, overwhelming nastiness. Of course i was trying to do anything to get her off and had to fight through it. Could that smell created by her having sex with someone else, it was horrific. Should i get tested for stds. Anyone with similiar experiences? Sorry for the personal distgusting stuff.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

STD Facts - Bacterial Vaginosis


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

HM

You should get checked no matter what but I have also been in situations when a woman is close to her period (just before/right after) where the odor could be strong.

It happens.

HM


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

What did she say?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Yes, no matter what get tested for STDs. Go to a clinic which specializes in STD tests, probably not your regular doc. You should get a full panel of tests, though some STDs have definite symptoms and you probably don't have those ones. But others can be silent.

There are no tests for HPV and Trichomoniasis in men. HPV there's nothing you can do about. If you haven't had any wart like lesions then you are probably clean on that one. But do ask about throat HPV or do a good search on the web. There may be a test for that now. Trich is essentially untestable in men. It can have no symptoms. They treat it with a med called Flagyl. You might try to convince the doc/nurse to write you a prescription for that one even if you have no symptoms.

Definitely get HIV and Herpes blood tests, too.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

VYI? WHAT do you want


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Your username is ironic when you seem to be in such a rush...

Conrad's "be still" is sorely missed here.

Hesitation, slow down a little and assess all that needs to be done. Concentrate on you, your son and the divorce. 

Muster all the masculine mettle you can and focus on these three things.

Have you found an attorney yet? There are many, many good ones in DFW.

Has she found an attorney yet?

Might be good to start talking to as many of the highly rated ones you can.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Because every one you talk to is the off limits to your wife.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I never brought it up and now she is gone again via d-day #2 several weeks ago. Fellas i have not drank or smoke since thursday, that is good for me. I feel damn good right now. My biggest issue is i cannot sleep worth a flip. Mind racing all the time, i do feel a ton better when off the booze and cigs. Every now and again I take 1/4 pill ambien and it helps sometimes for a few hours. Any suggestions on getting to sleep? Of course i reading these blogs for 45-min each night so certain that just gets me more wired.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Get good vigorous exercise. Whatever you can safely do, do it. Walk after dinner. Lift weights, ride a bike, play tennis. Something which gets you moving and breaks a sweat. Eat healthfully. Cut out the sugary drinks and diet drinks. Cut out caffeine. Stop the junk food such as fast food.

Turn off technology at dinner time. Phone, computer, tablet. Watching tv is ok but turn it off an hour before you go to bed. The flat screens put out a light which triggers the brain much like sunlight. The old fashioned tv screens didn't do that. The new ones can fool your brain into thinking it is morning, and it disrupts your sleep cycle. Also no looking at your cell phone, laptop, or tablet in the middle of the night.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Thor said:


> Get good vigorous exercise. Whatever you can safely do, do it. Walk after dinner. Lift weights, ride a bike, play tennis. Something which gets you moving and breaks a sweat. Eat healthfully. Cut out the sugary drinks and diet drinks. Cut out caffeine. Stop the junk food such as fast food.
> 
> Turn off technology at dinner time. Phone, computer, tablet. Watching tv is ok but turn it off an hour before you go to bed. The flat screens put out a light which triggers the brain much like sunlight. The old fashioned tv screens didn't do that. The new ones can fool your brain into thinking it is morning, and it disrupts your sleep cycle. Also no looking at your cell phone, laptop, or tablet in the middle of the night.



Fellas in a little quagmire, I have been talking to a girl online for about 5 days, we went out in Saturday, it was the most fun I've had in years with a women. But here in lies the problem, we started kissing and she said she hadn't been kissed like that in years, went back to her house and I pulled the moves on her did about everything except the full blown act. I went home and on the way home she said call me which I did. We talked for a while and then I had to catch a flight the next morning and am on the road in HI heading back tomorrow. After everything seemed great, it seems as if she is backing down, checking out not texting back as frequently, etc. The fact is I really like her but feel I pushed it a little far that first date, you think. Anyway, I want her to stay engaged. What is my next move, ignore her for a while. Is this normal for a women to check out after we lusted after each other for one night. I'm going crazy fellas and females. I guess I'm codependent. I like this woman. She has a son my sons age, so maybe she is just looking out what is best for them and I'm not, no telling really. Damn this sucks. Any advice to get her re-engaged, are these one night flings normal. **** I wasn't prepared for this, kind of hurts. Should I just rack this one up as a learning experience, damn it felt good to turn a woman on like that again, felt like college/high school. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Why not communicate with her and tell her that you felt great chemistry with her but you feel her pulling back.

Ask her how she feels and if she has any concerns?

Then tell her that you are cool with taking things slow and if she felt things were too fast the other night to just let you know...

That's all.

Keep it light, cool but let her know you are interested.

It either happens or it does not.

Good Luck

HM


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

happyman64 said:


> Why not communicate with her and tell her that you felt great chemistry with her but you feel her pulling back.
> 
> Ask her how she feels and if she has any concerns?
> 
> ...


Good advice, she said she wants to take things slow but indeed see me again. She said "I'm okay, just taking my time". She did enjoy herself with me Saturday. I guess I need to put it into perspective, we have only been on one date. I guess I am rebounding, lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

and remember, if you are moving on, it is recommended to date 

more than one woman at one time.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> and remember, if you are moving on, it is recommended to date
> 
> more than one woman at one time.


Roger that. Why is that so you don't get emotionally attached to one and get burnt. I am moving on, the look of my wife disgusts me, she has lost about 20 lbs, is a skeleton. Physically she is still attractive I guess to someone, but everytime I look at her I want to vomit jus because of the stupid look on her face. I guess that will go away eventually and we can work together for the sake of my son. Guilts a *****. The fact is there are many fish in the sea and I just found one, although it may be for a temporary period of time. But who knows, she may be a keeper. TAM, thanks for the support, couldn't have done it without you all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

The more different women you date the better gauge you have on 

what you may, now seek. If you have only one option, you actually 

have, no true option.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> The more different women you date the better gauge you have on
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ahh, Confucius.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Ceegee said:


> Ahh, Confucius.


Man who walk behind car, gets exhausted


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Nobody is also an option.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

not when one is desiring to date


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Fellas and gals, I have a quick update and need some input for moving forward. Basically, my wife left me once, did a fake recon, left again, we sold our home and we have two separate house now and no divorce has been filed. We have one child. I suspected and office fling/EA and our marriage was in the dumps when it all happened. I have posted our issues. 

Upon my new living arrangements, I did the 180 almost as much as possible mostly cause I didn't want any contact with her to move forward. I went out on many online dates, some bad some good. I met a smoking hot 20 year old bombshell at a bar, she was a hostess there, ended up handing out with her friends one night (lol) and she drove me home that night, I took her to a concert, we had a fling, I slept with her many times. But she is 20 for christs sake, so she basically contacts me for a booty call from time to time. Anyway, I felt I was moving forward. Yes, she is about as hot as they come. So that felt good. My wife had no knowledge of this encounter because I basically never contacted her.

About two weeks ago, wife contacted me and asked if I want to go to get a cabin rental for two nights and go with our son, so I replied "sure, i'll go". I contacted her that night and asked if she wanted to see me, she came over and we had sex. So we started talking/****ing again and hooked up five nights in a row, I slept at her place the last 7 nights. I asked her what the hell happened and she finally told me what I already knew. There was a guy/her employee at her work (33 Year old) that came on strong at her and she fell into that office romance trap, checked out on me, and it went nowhere, he would touch her hand and stare her down. But she says there was no sexual contract, kissing or anything. She said he ended up being a compulsive liar type, etc etc. So I asked her so I am your backup plan, if this guy was some great outstanding citizen, I would be on the sideline, something to that effect. I told her that this guy just wanted to **** you that is how guys think. Anyway, she seems genuinely ready to chase me down and get me back, has been being real friendly, cooking, making amends. I am still waiting for another booty call from my 20 YO friend, lol, really I would do it again. On the other hand, I still like my wife and she has cried and said I'm sorry, yada yada yada. She said if things weren't so bad between us this would not have happened. I think she may be telling me about 80 percent truth. How do I know if this guy banged her, does it matter, I had my own pleasure. How do I know this won't happen again. Should I go back with her. Unlike me, she stayed pretty solid, never went out drinking, took care of her house, etc. I on the other hand was a wild man, drinking, chasing tail, you know the drill. I had my fun, now I need to decide if we get back together long term. I drank too much drove too much was irresponsible, did it my way, but I think it helped move on. Should I call this guy and get the whole truth is he will provide it, trust my wife or call it quits. I called this one from the start. I was right with your help of course. She put me though the worst hell in my wife and I will never forget. Your thoughts are much appreciated ask any questions. I want to know if she got rejected by this guy also and that's why she is coming back, grass greener, not so.

I know i sound like a shallow dbag, but I have been through a lot this year, it took a piece of me, trying to get it back. I know I have a son and that should be priority #1. Anyway, my wife didn't go trying to hook up with guys, she could easily do that, she got caught up with a younger male attention thing at work, it happens I guess. I have resentment there but I also really have let all that go since it was expected that occurred.

She said the guy still works in her bldg, but has been transferred out of her unit and is under another supervisor and then don't talk anymore. He had a girlfriend during this time. Part of me says that he hit on her and then she probably chased him in the fog with butterflies, and either he ended up being a dbag liar or he jumped ship and rejected her. She said he got transferred out of her unit because he called my wifes supervisor and requested it because "him being in her unit was causing stress at home", I guess with his girlfriend being jealous of my wife. Who really knows, I don't think we have the whole story here and may never. But I would sure like to know. What's my next move bros.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Tell your wife about the 20 year old. It might eliminate any possibility of going forward.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

What do YOU want?


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

clipclop2 said:


> Tell your wife about the 20 year old. It might eliminate any possibility of going forward.


I thought about it, but why should I, the divorce may get nasty, she may pull phone records, why should I offer that info up, what's the point? She checked out, I pursued other avenues, simple as that. Honesty is not always the best answer, I'm sure you know that.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

WHy not call his GF and compare notes?

or better yet

Call the OM and compare notes?

If you want to know then do it.

If you dont care then dont do it.

You have absolutely nothing to feel guilty about.

S0 you and your wife have not lost it in the bedroom.

Is she still left in your heart now that you know some of the truth?


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I don't give a ****, I will call the other man, **** it. He's a state employee. If I knew his girlfriends name I would call her. I never met these people. Someone has to pay, just kidding. Sex I'm the bedroom has been okay. Nothing spectacular. I am keeping it even keel. No expectations. Single ain't so bad. Do what the hell you want. The twenty year old is oh so delicious, I have a greater infatuation with her than my wife. I'm about 10 months in from initial discovery. Guys, if you are reading this, listen to these fellas, don't make the same pathetic mistakes I made, groveling and what not, you hate yourself. I did it 6 months too late. This first 6-months I was a pathetic fool.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

if you are content with the young hottie...go for it. See if your W will

go for Plan B. I don't think she will. She knows you have went out,

difference is... now that you and her are squeaking the bed, she expects 

you to cease action with any other female. Women usually make one

deep emotional connection at a time. Right now it appears to be you.

But what for? Examine her reasons in the past. What do you see / think?


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Honesty is not the best answer huh? So she cheats and you become a less honest man? She might get nasty in the divorce if she finds out? Would you blame her? You are using her apparently. What she did is on you. What you do is on you.

Not nice.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

clipclop2 said:


> Tell your wife about the 20 year old. It might eliminate any possibility of going forward.


I had the exact same thought. Tell her about your FWB, and see what she confesses (and maybe even angrily) afterward. If it turns out that she was lying, you should (IMO) walk away.

And should you choose to reconcile, BTW, one of your conditions -- actually, THE condition -- should be that she agrees to get another job ASAP.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> Honesty is not the best answer huh? So she cheats and you become a less honest man? She might get nasty in the divorce if she finds out? Would you blame her? You are using her apparently. What she did is on you. What you do is on you.
> 
> Not nice.


How is he using her? That's a load. She trashed the marriage, now she's fvcked her future up and wants the security he provides. 

I think OP shod continue on, be discreet with the FWB, and observe his WW from 50,000 feet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

You are not a moral person bandit.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> How is he using her? That's a load. She trashed the marriage, now she's fvcked her future up and wants the security he provides.
> 
> I think OP shod continue on, be discreet with the FWB, and observe his WW from 50,000 feet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:
She knows he is detaching after all the sh!t she put him through but if things get serious with your wife you may as well tell her.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

clipclop2 said:


> You are not a moral person bandit.


I disagree. Any vows or moral obligations to his wife evaporated the second she slept with another man.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

She says she didn't sleep with him, is she lying? How the **** do you determine that?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> She says she didn't sleep with him, is she lying? How the **** do you determine that?


Ugh...
POLYGRAPH!
More the threat of one and see her reaction.
Hesitation has she seen you moving on is that the reason for the interest all of a sudden?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

hesitationmarks said:


> She says she didn't sleep with him, is she lying? How the **** do you determine that?


Well, if her lips were moving...


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> She says she didn't sleep with him, is she lying? How the **** do you determine that?


what's your gut tell you?

tell her about the 20 y/o. but say you never slept with her.

think she will believe you? ask her why.

the reason she gives will be the exact reason why you should suspect her.

the two of you are playing tit for tat. glorified urinating contest.

at this point, you may not care to save the M or kill it

what does that tell you? keep in mind.... until you step up

and take control, this merry go round will continue


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> what's your gut tell you?
> 
> tell her about the 20 y/o. but say you never slept with her.
> 
> ...


Thank you Conrad segundo
I think this is spot on.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Well, if her lips were moving...


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Well, if her lips were moving...


Eh... Al Gore?
I invented the internet.:rofl:


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

don't forget his stance on global warming :lol:

or fact he couldn't carry his home state in 2000

and his dad was a major player in state politics for decades


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Tom 67, I assume she saw me moving on as I wasn't groveling to her ass anymore and rarely spoke with her, one night she was gonna cook for me and I said no I'm busy, lol. Stuff like that mainly. I don't care where this goes to be honest, I think she is putting on an act.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> You are not a moral person bandit.


Well, people's views of morality seem very subjective on TAM. Call me what you want. OP doesn't owe his WW any consideration as far as I'm concerned.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I disagree. We owe it to ourselves to be good people.

You guys are scary.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

So sleeping with someone he likes is immoral.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Clip, his WW became just another date after destroying the marriage. Whether she cheated or not. 

She ended the contract. 

You may say he's being a douche if that's what you call a man who sleeps with women without a commitment but he is most certainly not betraying her.

ETA: she has a right to ask about his relationships since separation. He can choose to answer or not. If he lies it's on him.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> I disagree. We owe it to ourselves to be good people.
> 
> You guys are scary.


Good and moral are not the same thing. 

His wife separated from him. She divorced him in her heart. The marital relationship is suspended until the D goes through. With that suspension goes all conjugal rights and privileges.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

ButtPunch said:


> So sleeping with someone he likes is immoral.


what Clip might be saying is...it is immoral to cheat on a cheating

spouse but the original cheating spouse receives some type of

reprisal. Of course, that is an assumption and subjective but.... 

are we not already being mired in this already? Personally... I

see it as some good 'ol fashion gender bias. But...what do I know!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> what Clip might be saying is...it is immoral to cheat on a cheating
> 
> spouse but the original cheating spouse receives some type of
> 
> ...


Yeah but there is no betrayal, reprisal or revenge. The original marriage is dead. Muerta. Mort. How can there be adultery when no marriage contract exists except on a divorce petition languishing in a clerk's office?


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Never mind. Your penises are clearly in charge of you.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> Never mind. Your penises are clearly in charge of you.


Whatever Gloria Steinem.
Yes all men are evil hence...

Feminism and the Disposable Male - YouTube

Of course you won't notice it's a female talking about this.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Another good one

Men not marrying? How deep does "the problem" go? - YouTube


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> Never mind. Your penises are clearly in charge of you.


another all men are wrong elaboration

yet no reasoning. any rationale on why?

any reason why Hes is such a bad bad man

and his WAW is Scarlet? All I am asking for is a few, simple answers.

I would say I'm sorry you feel that way but

you're not, I doubt I should.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> another all men are wrong elaboration
> 
> yet no reasoning. any rationale on why?
> 
> ...


Hence the term 50 shades no?
What's good for the goose is good for the goosie no?


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

Link of anti-male shaming tactics.

‘The Catalogue of Anti-Male Shaming Tactics’ | Exposing Feminism

If you ever get bored, make a bingo chart of shaming language and then follow clipclop2's posting history. Shortest game of bingo ever.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Just for a few regulars who exhibit the behaviour I describe.

You'd think guys who think with their penises would have bigger pairs instead of acting like sissies talking about shaming language.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I could not help but chuckle.....


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

They play bingo too...


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I believe male shaming and anti male political correctness are a problem. Parents need to educate their sons and daughters to understand that men and women are different and have different needs. 

ClipClop is not guilty of this. She has a very advanced bullshyte detector. She will call women out, too. She is not a conventional boring person.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Just finished reading through this thread.

Number one I never saw where it was established that your wife was cheating.

2. The elephant in the room is that it looks like two different threads. I cant see where you ever took any advice given you on this board. As a matter of fact, you rarely even address questions asked of you.

3. There is no evidence you read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER or NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY. These books especially MMSLP would have shown you exactly what drove your wife off. Plus the neediness, whining, alcohol, and other substance abuse. Like clipclop said, you drove her off with a stick. She tried to come back and you just doubled down on beta behavior.

4. You avoided answering any questions about working out. It looks like you only worked out with a bottle of liquor.

5. If you had posted this in the COPING WITH INFIDELITY section the other posters would have called you out on all of this. Posters that are here are shocking me with their soft glove approach with you.

6. You are the leader of your family. You have shown no leadership. That's why they are not following you.

7. Your posts are few and far between, mostly to just whine. Read your thread, make a list of recommendations and make a list of those you followed. I don't see where you followed any.

8. Your wife's weight and physical appearance. She doesn't want this she is just at the end of her rope putting up with you.

Good luck, but with your attitude you will totally ignore this post too.

Twenty year old indeed. This is sickening.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Long time since I have checked in. Folks I appreciate your brutal honesty. Your are correct Chaparral, I am regressing back. My wife and I are back together but I feel in my gut she is gonna check out any second or tell me she is leaving. I did not incorporate much MMSL or NMMNG principals. I want to win my wife back for good, have her fall for me again, but what is it I do right now. Maybe I am not capable of doing it. I quit drinking. I am an emotional wreck thinking about what might be coming down the pipes. I am checking her messages, web pages, I can't believe I am back here in the position again. I am killing myself over this. I know there are no easy fixes. Please, any advice is much appreciate. We have been back together for about 6-months. I can't tell if I am just pessimistic, paranoid, having flashbacks, post tramatic stress disorder from the previous couple of bombs. Please help!


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

What do YOU want?


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

You're learning your lessons HM. 

Nothing we can do except guide you through what you face.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

You know HM your struggles truly reside within you.

I urge you to not drink and focus on your issues.

You need to stop overthinking, worrying and deal with the issues that are right in front of you.

You need to communicate with your wife in an open, honest and forthright matter.

You both need to keep the dialogue going on a daily basis.

And most importantly you need to show your wife the physical, emotional bond that she desires and that she reciprocates with you.

Keep working at it.

HM


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Has she continued interfering with your prescription medication?


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I am no longer on the meds, my wife and i are doing okay, i just obsess over the whole thing too much like you said. I wish i could quit that and just live life


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Which life do you want to live?


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## Voltaire2013 (Sep 22, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> Which life do you want to live?


Chuck,
You make me channel my dead Father, 'sh1t or get off the pot, honey'
HM, did you ever find out the true nature of her work dalliance? 

Cheers,
V(13)


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

schit or get off the pot was my best female friend / ICs saying

she's a Chicago native. bare boned but sometimes not enough for me

I like to bring it to the core


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Wife says she got caught up in an office "friendship" with a coworker that was pushing her buttons and our relationship was garbage and she was akready checked out and that just sealed our fate. I agree our relationship was crap. She said there was no contact with the dude, and he had a baby momma that he didnt tell my wife about. I tend to believe my wife. Things seem okay but i want to make sure this **** doesnt happen again by having my wife drool over me, how do you achieve that after 16 years of marriage. Im not sure my wife is in love with me, but she loves me. How do you prevent reoccurances of this scenario.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> Wife says she got caught up in an office "friendship" with a coworker that was pushing her buttons and our relationship was garbage and she was akready checked out and that just sealed our fate. I agree our relationship was crap. She said there was no contact with the dude, and he had a baby momma that he didnt tell my wife about. I tend to believe my wife. Things seem okay but i want to make sure this **** doesnt happen again by having my wife drool over me, how do you achieve that after 16 years of marriage. Im not sure my wife is in love with me, but she loves me. How do you prevent reoccurances of this scenario.


Lift weights get a new haircut and new threads.
Go out by yourself one night a week.
Change it up.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Does the W still think the M is garbage?

Has the W "owned her own POS tendencies" yet?

Is she willing to re-commit to the M?

Lastly.... do you HM.... trust your W?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> Does the W still think the M is garbage?
> 
> Has the W "owned her own POS tendencies" yet?
> 
> ...


listen...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH2xdoWnFsQ


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> How do you prevent reoccurances of this scenario.



One step and one day at a time. 

If you are both committed, and are both working toward making your marriage better, it will happen. 

If she continues to rationalize by blaming others who "push her buttons" it won't work. 

You cannot make her not do this again.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

mmslp and follow the MAP plan to the letter.

Has she started leaving her phone lying around and been open with all her emails etc? How's your sex life?


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

folks, quick update, we purchased a new home together. Review: My wife initially checked out on me for years (partly my fault), separated and had an EA (which she calls a friendship) with a coworker subordinate. I had a fling with a younger girl (yes sex, multiple times), wife and I reconciled and got to the point where I had to tell the wife about it (long story). My wife is distant at times, expected after 2014, she still works with the co-worker, it's eating me alive that she goes to that office but she swears she has limited contact and I know for a fact that the younger guy asked for transfer from her unit and no longer works under my wife. The fact is that they share the same office bldg and I assume they have some limited verbal contact which kills me to think about because I want the marriage to work. I stressed to my wife that this was a sore spot for me and I was not sure if I could live like this. Last night she brought up the point of my fling (cheating) and that it also hurts her dearly and she was open and said (sometimes when I get really angry thinking about what you did, I want to cheat on your so you will know what it feels like) and then she says but I am not going to do it, at least she was honest and told me her thought process. I told her that if this is the way she thinks I am not sure that I could go on with the marriage, because I am all in for her but is seems that she is not all into me. I have nothing concrete that says she is doing anything with this guy except maybe trying to look pretty for him at work as she dresses really nice and what not. I know alot of this crap is mind games so what can I do to make her urge for me, really obsess over me, be infatuated with me so she won't ever act on her urge to "pay me back". Sometimes I just want to throw in the towel because I think I will be hurt again in the end, but I also want a solid marriage with her. Can you guys please help me? I am completely obsessed with this and it is killing me. She keeps everything in but my fling seems to be a really sore point, as expected. Note: my fling occurred after we were separated and living in separate houses. Can I get a women's and men's perspective on this, how I should proceed, etc? I need some advice or this thing will eat both of us alive I believe.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

The little voice in your head is already telling you what to do.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

You seek to improve things by doing for her. How's that going?

If you re-read your entire thread.... the answers are already here.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> You seek to improve things by doing for her. How's that going?
> 
> If you re-read your entire thread.... the answers are already here.


QFT


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> folks, quick update, we purchased a new home together. Review: My wife initially checked out on me for years (partly my fault), separated and had an EA (which she calls a friendship) with a coworker subordinate. I had a fling with a younger girl (yes sex, multiple times), wife and I reconciled and got to the point where I had to tell the wife about it (long story). My wife is distant at times, expected after 2014, she still works with the co-worker, it's eating me alive that she goes to that office but she swears she has limited contact and I know for a fact that the younger guy asked for transfer from her unit and no longer works under my wife. The fact is that they share the same office bldg and I assume they have some limited verbal contact which kills me to think about because I want the marriage to work. I stressed to my wife that this was a sore spot for me and I was not sure if I could live like this. Last night she brought up the point of my fling (cheating) and that it also hurts her dearly and she was open and said (sometimes when I get really angry thinking about what you did, I want to cheat on your so you will know what it feels like) and then she says but I am not going to do it, at least she was honest and told me her thought process. I told her that if this is the way she thinks I am not sure that I could go on with the marriage, because I am all in for her but is seems that she is not all into me. I have nothing concrete that says she is doing anything with this guy except maybe trying to look pretty for him at work as she dresses really nice and what not. I know alot of this crap is mind games so what can I do to make her urge for me, really obsess over me, be infatuated with me so she won't ever act on her urge to "pay me back". Sometimes I just want to throw in the towel because I think I will be hurt again in the end, but I also want a solid marriage with her. Can you guys please help me? I am completely obsessed with this and it is killing me. She keeps everything in but my fling seems to be a really sore point, as expected. Note: my fling occurred after we were separated and living in separate houses. Can I get a women's and men's perspective on this, how I should proceed, etc? I need some advice or this thing will eat both of us alive I believe.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

How do I decipher the meaning of your messages. Guys/gals help me. Here is an example. My wife says "I am willing to work on things. That has not changed. Things are better but there is still a lot of pain. I am not giving up though. Love you"

This is BS, it sounds like a repeat of early 2014, we just bought a 270K house together, why are we still working on things and not giving up though. She said she is all in before, now this. My guess is she talking to her boyfriend again. What can I do now? Just sit it out and wait for another shoe to drop. Holly **** this is amazing.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Why does that make you think she is talking to him again?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

When you bought the 270k home.... what was paid down.... from your wallet

and her purse? After closing.... how did you feel? I again strongly suggest you re-read

your entire thread. You already have the answers.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Hesitation Marks,

1) Work on becoming a stronger person in all aspects of your life.

2) Don't be needy in your marital relationship.

3) When your wife wants to talk, listen. Reply in simple short sentences so that your message is not diluted. She has to feel that speaking with you is like a shot of spirits.

4) Have sense of humor.

5) Work out in the gym.

6) Cut out bad habits if you have any, e.g., nicotine, porn, booze, street drag racing, whatever is incompatible with the person you want to be.

If you find your wife responding positively, great. If she doesn't make an effort, then divorce her.

Don't try to control her. Expect respect. Give her respect in return.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

We put 5 percent down. 13 G's


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Come on guys I know she is working with the guy again, helllllllpppppp. Am I hopeless.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Did you buy the house to please her?


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Yes I did


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Did you read the mmslp book? It doesn't sound like it.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I initially got it, read most of it, then started chasing tail to fill a void, never implement the plan. Lost the book, but will get it today at lunch. How long does it take to implement the plan. I need a quick fix to me. What can I start doing today differently.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

hesitationmarks said:


> I realized that we have become a little bitter self absorbed, our sex life has be very bad as well. Largely my part, I have social anxiety and depression and was self-medicating for a very long time with alcohol that got worse and worse because I could not get any sleep constantly worrying about everything, no interest in sex and pretty much ignored the physical intimacy that my wife desired without even realizing it due to my mental state. I am functioning fine at my job, have a good career, but often dodge meetings, con calls classic avoidance behaviors. I realized that things were falling apart and wasn't happy with myself so I went to psychiatrist five months ago and got on Zoloft. I did not tell my wife about this, which is a classic trait of shame/despair by individuals with anxiety disorder. After taking the meds for two weeks my wife found the hidden bottle and just freaked out that I had not told her, a big verbal argument ensued where i explained the reason, which she repeatedly said to me that I did not need this


I realize this was posted awhile back but I'm putting RN hat on now to comment.

Her behavior regarding your meds is controlling. This is one reason why patients have confidentiality with providers. Your decision that you need a prescription med to help you with your symptoms is between you and your doctor! Your wife should BUTT OUT; taking a medication to balance your brain chemistry is like taking an iron pill when your blood chemistry is anemic: nothing to be ashamed of! The "shame on you" messages from your wife are ill informed and counterproductive.

I would encourage you to look into Wellbutrin instead of Zoloft. If you are able to stop self-medicating with alcohol, Wellbutrin helps with addictive behavior- they use it as a smoking cessation drug. It is also one of the only antidepressants which does not diminish libido and can even increase libido. If you are still a heavy drinker, scratch that. Drinking on Wellbutrin lowers seizure threshold and adds liver stress.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

let's look at your options
1. don't confront just divorce. you may have to take a lose but you can get out of the house and divorce (yeah it may hit financially but at least you can walk away from all of this and start a new life
2. confront with out evidence and ask her to leave. if you could swing it you can buy her out and if you can make the payments yourself you can stay in the house until you can sell it for a profit.
3. you can wait and see if she is cheating on you again, gather evidence and confront her
4. or maybe she is not cheating and your becoming paranoid....still not a healthy outlook for you, instead you just sitting around waiting for the other shoe to drop
5. offer to live together as roommates until such time as you can sell the house for a slight profit...take time to work on yourself.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

***You're living in fear hoping you can make her feel for you the way you feel for her. 

Not going to work my friend. 

What have you done to work on yourself? ***

CeeGee said this to you on post #100

about a year ago

Do you think anything has changed since that time?


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I have changed a little, don't over consume booze, I think once I got back with her I become more OCD paranoid whereas when I was not with her I could give a **** about anything. I still did a good job at work but had a more care free attitude. I feel like when I come home from work we just im sit there worried about our marriage. It's stupid, I need to get out, she is pretty much a home body. 

The fact is she is getting something at work that I don't provide maybe, social interaction maybe. I am fairly quite, when you see that person everyday there is not much to discuss. I feel pretty damn good today whereas I was in the dumps yesterday. I am going to the library to get mmslp. Thanks for all the advice and support. I feel like I have a third chance here and not even sure I want to take it because here check downs are becoming more than I can take. I have very few friends in the area so it's hard for me to say hey babe I am going to go ride bikes play hoops and what not so when I am home and she is, we are together.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

You should be concerned about your well-being more than hers.

Go out, have fun. She asks where you are going, give her a chance to join you.

If not.... go solo. Your life should not be defined by her.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I feel as though me and the wife have no emotional bond. I force conversation, I need some form of bond with that person. How the hell do you get that back? Do you, can you? Does love still exist? I think about her a lot and I think she thinks about me very little. Did any of you guys come out fine on the other side?


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

hesitationmarks said:


> I feel as though me and the wife have no emotional bond. I force conversation, I need some form of bond with that person. How the hell do you get that back? Do you, can you? Does love still exist?


Take her to Marriage Help Program For Couples and note how well it works on the weekend and continue at home


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I still feel like plan B-back up guy. Although things are going okay I still feel my wife is not totally into me as expected. How did any of you guys accept that you were plan B? Did you ever accept, which of you guys just said f it even after she came back. I know I sound like a broken record but your thoughts are much appreciated. I am a passive male and am reading mmsl. It is helpful. I know my wife was caught up in the dopamine response around that guy. It doesn't excuse it, I feel like she has the upper hand because I banged a chick. I don't believe she cheated but she did leave in hopes this man was her obsession novel/true love. It's silly but it happens. Wtf to do now, I am seeing an IC next week. I feel like I am just muddling along waiting for the next shoe to drop, I have no cause for concern right now but I guess I have PTSD from 2014


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

As you know, came clean about my encounter with younger woman sometime ago. Wife is still on the fence and says there may be too much damage done but also says I'm trying to get over and I love you. How in the world do I get her to jump in 100 percent and forgive me for my encounter? In a nut shell, I neglected her, she left once having an EA with another work colleague, we sold our home, We each purchased a new home, she said she wanted a divorce, we were separated for most of 2014, I went out one night and hooked up with a girl, wife wants to work on things, I tell her about the girl, we sell both houses, buy new house together, things are a little tense but okay. But then wife says too much damage, I'm hurt beyond what you can imagine on what you've done sleeping with someone. She still says she loves me and is trying and maybe time will make things better. But she is definitely on the fence. Any thoughts or suggestions to help me out. I want to do my best to say and do the right things so she will forgive me.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Sorry HM but i call bull on her, if i understand you correctly you were living separately and she was the one that originally wanted to leave, you need to man up and tell her that is crap she is playing mind games with you. either she wants to be married or not. you need to stop wasting the rest fo your life on someone who doesn't know what she wants.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

I was going to say that she sounds like a flake.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

She wanted a separation, had an EA (if you ask me I bet it went PA).

You gave her what she wanted. Of course she expected you to be a puppy dog and sit around waiting on her

You went out and had sex. Who started this ball rolling????

Now you're right back where you were before. Just in a bit deeper....

One thing I haven't heard much on is the child.... how is s/he doing?

I stand by what I said, re-reading your entire thread and implementing it would do a world of good for you


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

All she is trying to do is regain the control over you she lost when you hooked up with another woman. 

If I were in your position, I'd tell her, "look, if you want to be here stay. If you don't go."

Don't go back to begging and trying to convince her to stay.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I'm sorry for I disagree with some of the posts just now. You checked out of the marriage because of medication, depression, etc, an awful time for you and probably her. She has an EA, no excuse but easy to do when she is getting no attention from you. You separate and you sleep many times with someone else, what made you think that would be ok? It is clear to her that your words (of love, totally into her, blah blah blah) do not match the actions (you got over her pretty quickly by sticking it to someone else multiple times). 

For you as a male, no problem that was then (done and dusted) so let's now move on, not so for her (females don't think the same way as males). To her it is just more evidence of your lack of commitment and love for her, that is why she is on the fence. You (in previous posts) are always looking for quick solutions, there is none to this one, except patience, hard work and (yes) commitment through actions (not words). Why would she jump into the fire again when you have proven to her that you can very quickly get involved sexually with someone else, not the habit of a heart broken husband. 

If you want the marriage to work, be happy that she is giving you an opportunity to work on it, you cannot rush this, it may or may not work, this is a risk you have to take. Threats and ultimatums as suggested above will not work. 

This is a classic example of why those in troubled marriages should not get involved with third parties even if separated.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

hesitationmarks said:


> As you know, came clean about my encounter with younger woman sometime ago. Wife is still on the fence and says there may be too much damage done but also says I'm trying to get over and I love you. How in the world do I get her to jump in 100 percent and forgive me for my encounter? In a nut shell, I neglected her, she left once having an EA with another work colleague, we sold our home, We each purchased a new home, she said she wanted a divorce, we were separated for most of 2014, I went out one night and hooked up with a girl, wife wants to work on things, I tell her about the girl, we sell both houses, buy new house together, things are a little tense but okay. But then wife says too much damage, I'm hurt beyond what you can imagine on what you've done sleeping with someone. She still says she loves me and is trying and maybe time will make things better. But she is definitely on the fence. Any thoughts or suggestions to help me out. I want to do my best to say and do the right things so she will forgive me.


Get the two books linked to below, they're also available at amazon.

Also Google NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY free download and see if it describes you. Many feel it does but some do not.

MMSLP is a guide for every man and counters progressive thought on how relationships really work. 

Good luck. BTW, get MMSLP asap. MMSLP is just for you. NOT JUST FRIENDS is for you both.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Good post aine, I agree with most of what you said, I now take full blame for my marriage failure, I am very _ _ _ _ _ _ up in the head, the truth will set you free and you laid it out there, sorry for the late reply. It will ultimately be my wife's decision whether she leaves me or stays. What do you and the fellas suggest I do to try and weather the storm. What actions should I take? I sent flowers to her work today and she was ecstatic I think. She still works with the OM that she had an office EA with him and my actions during separation probably justify her getting emotionally involved with him again. I am between a rock and a hard place. I do want to win her back, but don't want to go all in and lose her again and feel like _ _ _ _ again. I want to protect myself and win her back. Look to be honest. I am generally negative/pessimistic, have low self confidence, "nice guy" I guess. I need to change that and I believe I can re attract her back for good but where do I start. I have all the pieces in place that say I should have high self confidence/self worth, 100K/year job, nice car, wife/kid, great house, decent parents, but something is missing, it's within me, maybe hit during childhood and I can't crack it. I self-loath, I am and think shallow, I am weak minded, sometimes I just hate myself and obsess and I can't stop it, this will end my marriage before anything. PLEASE HELP. How do I genuinely become a good guy, again. Someone people look up and demands respect, I don't feel I have that fellas. Maybe you folks have had the same feeling and gotten better. I feel like I am just skating through life with no purpose. That's a topic for another discussion. Generally, how can I help myself, and in turn help my marriage. Thanks to all.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Aine, what do you believe my wife is thinking in her head about the marriage, she came back to me, I lied about being with someone else and got busted about the OW, I admitted it, it was a traumatic ordeal for her but she still wanted to sell both homes and get one home for the family. I made a lot of mistakes during separation, that's an understatement. What would make her get back on the fence again about the marriage, time, her thoughts, I assume, but also maybe the damn co-worker is back in the fold. When I ask her about what she thinks about us, she keeps saying that things are "same ole, same ole". Then she says "You _ _ _ _ _ _ a ***** and then told me she was beautiful". I did say that and it was probably the stupidest thing I have ever said. The girl was not a "*****" but that is a mute point. Limbo hell here, population 50 million. Fellas, how can I find out the truth about the co-worker in a discrete way, is he talking up the wife again, getting her butterflies going, I don't believe so but my gut is not entirely settled on that belief. Life is tough when you have low self-confidence. Over and out.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

hesitationmarks said:


> Good post aine, I agree with most of what you said, I now take full blame for my marriage failure, I am very _ _ _ _ _ _ up in the head, the truth will set you free and you laid it out there, sorry for the late reply. It will ultimately be my wife's decision whether she leaves me or stays. What do you and the fellas suggest I do to try and weather the storm. What actions should I take? I sent flowers to her work today and she was ecstatic I think. She still works with the OM that she had an office EA with him and my actions during separation probably justify her getting emotionally involved with him again. I am between a rock and a hard place. I do want to win her back, but don't want to go all in and lose her again and feel like _ _ _ _ again. I want to protect myself and win her back. Look to be honest. I am generally negative/pessimistic, have low self confidence, "nice guy" I guess. I need to change that and I believe I can re attract her back for good but where do I start. I have all the pieces in place that say I should have high self confidence/self worth, 100K/year job, nice car, wife/kid, great house, decent parents, but something is missing, it's within me, maybe hit during childhood and I can't crack it. I self-loath, I am and think shallow, I am weak minded, sometimes I just hate myself and obsess and I can't stop it, this will end my marriage before anything. PLEASE HELP. How do I genuinely become a good guy, again. Someone people look up and demands respect, I don't feel I have that fellas. Maybe you folks have had the same feeling and gotten better. I feel like I am just skating through life with no purpose. That's a topic for another discussion. Generally, how can I help myself, and in turn help my marriage. Thanks to all.


Get the two books linked to below asap!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

HM

Why is your confidence low?

You obviously have no problem attracting women.

Your wife is obviously still hanging around to see if you can be the man she originally married.

You say you love her.

You say you want to remain married to her.

So....

Stop lying to her.
Be 100% truthful.

Tell her how you feel, what you want from her and ask her for support.

If you get it from her then come up with a plan that fixes you. That comes in the form of tangible results that she can see.

And for God's sake stop shooting yourself in the foot.

HM


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Fellas I am obsessing over this now. When is she gonna leave and she hasn't even said she wants too. How in the hell do I quit obsessing over this, meds? I want to get ripped but am losing weight again, hair falling out, ect. Feel weird around her, like if she leaves life is over. Man, I am back to square one.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

You will remain in this state until you take the focus OFF of her


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Well I pressed her the last few days and she said today that she wants the divorce and can't get over the fact that I "cheated" after she left me during our "separation". I accept that. What do I do now to protect my self interest folks.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Dadsdvorce.com


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html

Going No Contact. And Staying No Contact. - ChumpLady.com


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Fellas, I am finally getting my divorce on. First I am listing our house and trying to sell real quick which I think it will happen. I spoke with an attorney yesterday. I reside in Texas. Basically I plan to give her principle custody of my son because logistically makes sense since my commute is hell and I don't want to fight for that because she will win and then the whole thing will get contentious. I will stay nearby and get to see my son as much as I can. That's life, he is almost 11. I had a fling after she had an ea (at least) at work. I just want a simple divorce, 50/50. How do I ensure that happens, do you know of a particular attorney that is reliable. I don't want to get hosed. At the moment she wants to not fight about the divorce but we all know how that goes. She has no real proof she can bring to court I was with the girl other than I told her about it. I have nothing or her EA possible PA, which she denies. If I do a no contest will she turn around and protest on grounds of adultery, if so does the judge even care. Your thoughts please


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

hesitationmarks said:


> I still feel like plan B-back up guy. Although things are going okay I still feel my wife is not totally into me as expected.


Why should she be? The only change you made was to quit drinking.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

hesitationmarks said:


> As you know, came clean about my encounter with younger woman sometime ago. Wife is still on the fence and says there may be too much damage done but also says I'm trying to get over and I love you. How in the world do I get her to jump in 100 percent and forgive me for my encounter? In a nut shell, I neglected her, she left once having an EA with another work colleague, we sold our home, We each purchased a new home, she said she wanted a divorce, we were separated for most of 2014, I went out one night and hooked up with a girl, wife wants to work on things, I tell her about the girl, we sell both houses, buy new house together, things are a little tense but okay. But then wife says too much damage,


So...SHE is allowed to cheat DURING the marriage, but if you see someone AFTER SHE MOVES OUT, it's YOU who is the bad guy?

Sounds like you've allowed her to define everything in your marriage and just gone along with it. If this is still going on, I suggest that the next time she drags your 'cheating' up you look her straight in the eyes and say 'you cheated first and while we were still in the same house. You're lucky I even want you back.'


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

hesitationmarks said:


> Fellas I am obsessing over this now. When is she gonna leave and she hasn't even said she wants too. How in the hell do I quit obsessing over this, meds? I want to get ripped but am losing weight again, hair falling out, ect. Feel weird around her, like if she leaves life is over. Man, I am back to square one.


First thing you do is go to your doctor and ask to be put on wellbutrin or something similar, to even out your emotions. Then you find a therapist and start attending every other week to learn to like yourself and start standing up for yourself; learn about controlling behaviors and how to deal with them. Then you join a gym and start going. Then you start eating healthy food. Then you start asking some male friends to hang out and start doing something with guys at least once a week; if you don't have any friends MAKE SOME. Then you pick some charity and start volunteering at least once a month.

Do all that, and you'll be surprised how much more interested she becomes in you, even if you are divorcing.

And in Texas, judges don't give a flip about cheating. Just set up the financial arrangements. Let her see you moving on.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I should not leave the house correct, if she wants to be "alone" the. She should have to move out correct.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No, you have no reason to move out. Stand your ground.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> I should not leave the house correct, if she wants to be "alone" the. She should have to move out correct.


I tried, HM64 tried, Chappy tried.......

maybe Turnera can beat it into you.......

Everything to do is in your thread............ EVERY THING


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Folks I need some honest advice. My wife and I have a 272k new house. I make 106k a year and her 55k. I nailed a 20 YO during a separation with wife while she was in her fog. We have been in this house for four months and now wife says she can't do this anymore for the fact I cheated on her. She denies any physical cheating on her part. I accept that she can't forgive me and I dont really care at this point as her mere pressence disgusts me now. I want to file for divorce yesterday but I am trying to get her to get a rental house, sale the house and then file. Is there any positives to this? My fear is she is going to say she wants the house and I will end up with the note of she goes contested. Or should I just file next week and say freak it. So in short, should I massage the wife get her own place, sale the house and then file. Thanks brothers


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I must clearly state again, I don't want to be with my wife anymore, the emotional pain she has caused me killed any and all attraction I ever had for her. I view her as a lying self absorbed unaffectionate attention seeking twit. I just want a quick and fair divorce. She is dead to me, her mere pressence makes me sick to my stomach.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Who cares what she thinks about what you did, if you're done with her? No judge is going to care what you did while you were separated, unless you were robbing banks or raping people or something.

The ONLY thing you should be doing right now is doing exactly what your lawyer tells you to do.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Folks - I can't let her go, how in the hell do break free. The writing is all there a divorce must occur. She wants it, has said so but won't pull the trigger. She can't forgive me. yada yada yada. I am holding onto the fact that I still love her but she won't change her mind. How in the hell do you break free. I have a fear that I won't find anyone else and be lonely. This so sucks.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No offense, but you do what an adult will do - what has to be done.

You have two choices: stick your fingers in your ears and go lalalala and pretend she's not telling you she's done, and hope to get to live with her yet one more day, even if you're being her lapdog, or...

you try to remember who you were before you devoted yourself to her and pull THAT person back out of your memories, and do what HE would do.

And you find some male in your life and go to him and tell him what's going on and ask him to help you be strong and stop being a lapdog. Let him be your mentor.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

The fact you found a 20 year must means something....my point being you don't know what is out there until you out there...and for your wife....she cheated first which lead to all of this unraveling the own ness lies with her. Stop putting up with this you pull the trigger....I bet you dollar for donuts she changes her mind.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

How the f**ck do I get out of this pre-divorce funk, wife is gone emotionally again, I'm depressed suicide even crosses my mind every now and again. I AM NOT GONNA DO IT, but it does cross my mind. I guess I still love her but she gone. What to do, I'm in the road for work and depressed again. Guys, how did you beat this feeling. Arrrrggggg


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> How the f**ck do I get out of this pre-divorce funk, wife is gone emotionally again, I'm depressed suicide even crosses my mind every now and again. I AM NOT GONNA DO IT, but it does cross my mind. I guess I still love her but she gone. What to do, I'm in the road for work and depressed again. Guys, how did you beat this feeling. Arrrrggggg


You are all over the place.

First, the pain you feel is normal. You have to go through it but you can get help.

Turnera and others have told you to see a Dr and get on some meds but, like many other suggestions, you haven't acknowledged them.

Look, we can only help you so much. You have to do the work.

You have to accept where you are and begin making decisions and taking steps to get your own life back in order. 

Start by making one step today.

Do something.

Make an appointment with your Dr today. 

Most of us have been exactly where you are right now. I have. 

All of the advice you've been given is tried and true through our collective experience. 

Doing nothing will change nothing.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Whining might feel good, but it solves nothing. Stand up and do what has to be done - without delay.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Quick update - wife wants to get a rental house soon, she found one really close for $1200. She says she wants to separate for a year and see if things get better, lol. What should be my game plan when/if she does. Seems may I have an upper hand if she moves out. She even said she didn't expect me to pay her child support since the house payment i will carry is 2k versus her $1200. I will still pay although nice gesture on her part. I swear man. What you think?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Just ask her for her address of the new place.....when she asks why, tell you need to know where to send the divorce papers.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I think you should just go to your lawyer and have him draw the papers up. Kids stay with you.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

HM

It has been since over a year and a half since your original post.

You two have been separated for nearly as long.

Why continue being in limbo?

What does another year give you?

What does another year give her?

HM


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

HM - my heart still longs for her. It hurts still, if it didn't I wouldn't put myself through this. It sucks man.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why do you even come to a place like this when you refuse to even try the advice?


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Happy man, I remember in one of your post, you said you were tattered **** going through this. How did you finally break free, how are you doing now? I guess I need her to go, to get back on my feet. I know it has been way too long. I am in better shape than before for certain, it only hurts for a little while and goes away pretty quick.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

turnera said:


> Why do you even come to a place like this when you refuse to even try the advice?


He has not suffered enough......

When he gets sick and tired of being sick and tired

he will re-read his thread.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Turnera I tried the advice, it ain't freaking working. I am in the best shape of my life, ripped. Quit drinking. Read the books. Dressed my best. What advice am I not following?


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I reread my thread twice, are you saying I have to file for divorce? Is that the advice I am not following? I've done everything short of that.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> I reread my thread twice, are you saying I have to file for divorce? Is that the advice I am not following? I've done everything short of that.


Yeah and everything short of that isn't working. 

Think of filing it as less of an act and more of a statement.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

She moves out and I file the day after, what you think?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What you don't seem to be doing, in MY mind, is going out and having an amazing life without her. And to let her SEE you having an amazing life. Fill it with fun stuff, volunteering, new friends, new activities/clubs/sports/classes/women/hanging out with the guys.

If you are busy doing that, you would be growing and changing and what she does, frankly, won't even matter. Because you have so much MORE stuff in your life that gives you more happiness than her.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

hesitationmarks said:


> She moves out and I file the day after, what you think?


Great idea.

She is taking a huge step....you should do the same.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Finding a place and moving into a place are not the same.

I'm guessing here, but you to may be made for each other.....neither one of you will ever take such a huge step as to move out/divorce!

I could be wrong....so lets see....she bails you bail.

Think about it, you guys are done at the point she packs the last box and hauls it over to her new pad. I mean the only time she will think about you is when she is in between boy friends.

That's how it goes....she will go dark for a few months then she will be inviting you over for pancakes on the weekend, then she will go dark for a few months and then she will be inviting you over to fix her plumbing.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> Quick update - wife wants to get a rental house soon, she found one really close for $1200. She says she wants to separate for a year and see if things get better, lol. What should be my game plan when/if she does. Seems may I have an upper hand if she moves out. She even said she didn't expect me to pay her child support since the house payment i will carry is 2k versus her $1200. I will still pay although nice gesture on her part. I swear man. What you think?


You also bought the house right in the middle of a schitstorm after every one here told you not to.

I asked you why did you buy it.... your replied to make her happy.

So being Mr. Nice Guy.... how's that working out for you?

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/155305-weeds-codependence.html


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Of course you should file.

When she asks why?

Your response should be. "To make you happy."

You have been in limbo long enough.

Stop being her Plan B.

HM


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Guys, did I really sacrifice the marriage by sleeping with the younger girl. I am really feeling the blame and shame for that. Is this all my fault? Am I a horrible person?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Best I recall.... the M was already in the crapper at that time


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Dude all your actions are based on her. Which makes them reactions not actions. 

Be a man of action. Take your life into your own hands. Put yourself back on track regardless of what she does. 

Start doing things for yourself. File now not when/if she moves out. 

Man the f up. 

PS: Yes, sleeping with the girl was a mistake. Not because of how it affects your marriage but because it's not who you are. Every time you mention it you are sure to point out that she was 20. 

Why?

Because it's some sort of badge of honor? 20 yo's that will put out nowadays are a dime a dozen. Not special. No badge.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Cee gee, I need the brutal honesty that you just posted to snap out of being a shallow dbag. That's exactly what I need to hear. Seriously, appreciate it, keep it coming.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Okay...STOP ROBBING CRADLES!

Stick the binkie back in that girl's mouth and send her back to the playground.

There...


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Alright, let's get our game on, reached out to a good attorney, real good reviews avvo and some other site, he wants $325 an hour and 5k retainer. How much is this **** gonna cost me guys? How much were your D's? What were your major challenges to your cases?


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> Alright, let's get our game on, reached out to a good attorney, real good reviews avvo and some other site, he wants $325 an hour and 5k retainer. How much is this **** gonna cost me guys? How much were your D's? What were your major challenges to your cases?



How much it costs depends on how far apart your expectations are and how your attorneys play you.

States are pretty specific in their family codes. Study them because that's what judges adhere to.

Mine cost me over $100k because my XW wanted to fight over something the judge would have granted me anyway. 

Just file. We'll guide you through the rest. Including how she reacts.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Don't say you will file, just file.

When she learns of it by being served... you WILL get a reaction.... bet..... the..... farm.

Her reaction will most likely tell you who she really is.

What state are you in?

My D was $184.75.... DIY. At first WC wanted it, so I made her pay for it.

Got stuck with some of her debt but.... LOL nobody gets out "scott free"


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I'm in north Texas


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> I'm in north Texas



Texas. Easy. 

Read the Texas Family code. It's spelled out. Cut and dry. Judges rarely deviate from it.


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

hesitationmarks said:


> Alright, let's get our game on, reached out to a good attorney, real good reviews avvo and some other site, he wants $325 an hour and 5k retainer. How much is this **** gonna cost me guys? How much were your D's? What were your major challenges to your cases?


.



$7500, and worth every bit of it IMO. I gave him another 5k just to keep him on retainer just in case... and i'm in Dallas..


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Sammy 64, who was your attorney, was he any good.


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

Ya, really good attorney, 25 +yrs in the business. he's up in Plano..

Edit.. I sent you a PM with his info...


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Any tips divorce process, what not to do, be nice, be an ahole and throw the gauntlet down, what's the key. Is there one??


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

interview D attorneys.... this is where they make their $$$$$

key is.... make them work for YOU, not a damn yacht payment


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> Any tips divorce process, what not to do, be nice, be an ahole and throw the gauntlet down, what's the key. Is there one??


Be neither nice nor an ahole.

Be professional.

Know your goals and the law. Work specifically toward those goals.

Work out as much in advance as you can. Get it in writing.

The sooner it's done the cheaper it will be.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I want to thank Sammy 64 for meeting up with me this afternoon and talking some sense into my head, face to face, man to man. He has lived it and is extremely knowledgable. Anyone in North Texas who is going through similair issues I would be happy to meet and try to help you out. This site has been a god send to me. Thanks to all. At some point we all become misguided into believing our previous relationship should be saved but at some point it cannot and should not.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Thank goodness someone got to shake you into reality....


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> Thank goodness someone got to shake you into reality....



Not so fast. 4 days and no update.


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

Its always great to hang out with a new buddy, and i look forward to meeting up again.. but I wanted to bring forward some of the things we talked about. 
I want to apologize, this is a long post, but I think these quotes needed to be brought back to the surface 



Malpheous said:


> 8.) Keep your head. *your marriage is now a business transaction*.





hesitationmarks said:


> *She is not wearing her wedding ring after separating*, I know this could be an honest crush with a younger co-worker/employee who has her ear and is real attentive, telling her all the right things. Whatever it is my gut is telling me this **** is over, her and I. Should I pull the plug out of limbo hell.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

I know what I have to do. Next week is the week. Wednesday to be exact. Here is my delima. I have three attorneys in mind. A female with a lower retainer with some bad reviews, Sammy 64s attorney who seems solid on reviews but has a few negatives or this other rock star with no bad reviews, 5k retainer who may be more expensive. My wife is already arguing should we divorce about a court order if I allow her primary then child cannot be moved outside an adjoining county. She doesn't want that in the court order/divorce decree so she can jump up and move back home with my son. I say hell no to that so this is going contested so might as well get a good attorney. Which one would you get or does it matter, I reside in Texas. There is no way I am not gonna get that in the divorce decree. She will not be able to relocate at will, anyone ever face this? Thanks!


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> I know what I have to do. Next week is the week. Wednesday to be exact. Here is my delima. I have three attorneys in mind. A female with a lower retainer with some bad reviews, Sammy 64s attorney who seems solid on reviews but has a few negatives or this other rock star with no bad reviews, 5k retainer who may be more expensive. My wife is already arguing should we divorce about a court order if I allow her primary then child cannot be moved outside an adjoining county. She doesn't want that in the court order/divorce decree so she can jump up and move back home with my son. I say hell no to that so this is going contested so might as well get a good attorney. Which one would you get or does it matter, I reside in Texas. There is no way I am not gonna get that in the divorce decree. She will not be able to relocate at will, anyone ever face this? Thanks!


Conrad is in as much shock as you with the cardinals. lol
Anyway as a vet here you are in one of the more vaviorable states.
Ceegee won't tell you that and don't blame him.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

A judge would be very unlikely to allow her to move your child. 

I've never seen anything but what you're asking for in a decree. I have seen the custodial file for modification to allow out of state location 3 times. Only once was it allowed but to do so she has to bring her daughter back to Texas for 1 week every six weeks and she has to pay for it. 

It would be a huge waste of money to go to court if this is the only sticking point. 

Have you read this yet?

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/FA/htm/FA.153.htm

Edit: forget low retainer with bad reviews. Go with a good attorney with a moderate to high moderate hourly rate. You're going to go through retainer anyway so don't worry so much about that.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Do not tell her you are filing..... or better said, don't tell her when.

When she is served.... one of two things... she will reflect and 2nd guess it (I don't see it)

or she will come at you with her claws out. Stand still if she does.... be silent, observe @ 50k feet

She will likely show her hand. Have patience....

It's business now. A chess game. Greg Maddux did not win 355 games with his fastball... he set up batters

pitch by pitch.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Retainer 5k, 325/hour, does that sound reasonable for Texas


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Damn I should've been a lawyer......

or a prostitute..... wait.... my arse is too big. Oh well....

HM...... Cool, firm, dispassionate..... 

Do I need to get my weegie board out and channel Conrad?


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Yes please channel Conrad. I'm going in next week. Big time. I need all the advice out there. She is going to get angry when I spend 5k on an attorney big time. We have 73k in savings should separate accounts 50/50 and pull five 5k out or just keep it joined and do it.


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

Mine says Dallas County, and if I moved out of the county then she would be free to move where ever. 
5K and $300HR was mine..


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

hesitationmarks said:


> Yes please channel Conrad. I'm going in next week. Big time. I need all the advice out there. She is going to get angry when I spend 5k on an attorney big time. We have 73k in savings should separate accounts 50/50 and pull five 5k out or just keep it joined and do it.



Split it ASAP.. 50 -50 .. put it in a account that she does not have access to, even better if you opened up a new account with a different bank to drop your 1/2 in


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

hesitationmarks said:


> Retainer 5k, 325/hour, does that sound reasonable for Texas



Yes, it's about right. 

Separate accounts now. 

You're going to be divorced. Who cares if she gets mad? 

Just do as much of the work as you can. Watch all statements closely. Attorneys will bill you for everything just make sure they don't bill you twice.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

If it was me...... I'd take the 5k off the top before 50 / 50 split

I try to be the nice party at first

when it gets nasty....... open season

But that's just me


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Opened new checking and savings account today, keep on trucking to the finish line, will keep you posted.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Well folks I finally retainer an attorney and filed. 60-day wait period underway. Shooting for a uncontested divorce and wife is obliging at the moment. Any pointers on how not to piss her off and ride this pony to the finish line. Feels pretty good to have done something finally after over two years, wow. Wishing you guys and gals the best in your situations. Thanks!


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

hesitationmarks said:


> Well folks I finally retainer an attorney and filed. 60-day wait period underway. Shooting for a uncontested divorce and wife is obliging at the moment. Any pointers on how not to piss her off and ride this pony to the finish line. Feels pretty good to have done something finally after over two years, wow. Wishing you guys and gals the best in your situations. Thanks!


Why are you worried if you piss her off?

Sounds like it's high time to start standing up.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Does she know yet?

HM - you can either do what you need to do or do what doesn't piss her off. There is no in between. 

Which do you think is best for you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Standing up for what. I just want this f'ing thing over asap. I stood in there for two years and lost. We all made mistakes along the way but I honestly have no regrets. That is the way I needed to feel. I feel okay with that. Like the quote in Indiana Jones The Last Crusade at the beginning "you lost today kid but that doesn't mean you have to like it". I'll still get down at times but I am damn fine with that. It means I'm human. To all you guys going through this, don't look at your wife with rose colored glasses when she bolts, examine her for what she is, remember the things that you two have very little compatibility on. Just an example, my wife had very little desire to travel oversees, try different foods, develop a little culture. Something I was always interested in and many others are as well. This is what got me along mentally in this process of looking at her with crystal clear glasses. I think we hold onto our wifes out of fear of the unknown not true logic. I mean life and society in general is tough and unforgiving and our wifes provide us a sense of escape from that. We fear losing them even though the relationship has become toxic to one or both parties. I will keep you posted on the divorce process.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Look at your wife that way BEFORE she bolts.

You're much likely to be able to keep her if she stays off that pedestal.


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## hesitationmarks (Jan 30, 2014)

Fellas and females, it's all over today, final, what now. I want to thank everyone for your advice. If I would have strictly followed your advice I probably could have saved the marriage but it's over. You are the best and really care about the posters on this site.


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## giddiot (Jun 28, 2015)

hesitationmarks said:


> Retainer 5k, 325/hour, does that sound reasonable for Texas




I think it's high, my son was 250 with 3k retainer in MN and I lived in both places and MN is twice as expensive as Texas in just about everything.


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