# Can you move on without divorcing?



## LimboGirl (Oct 28, 2011)

My 22 year marriage has been difficult for the last 15 years. It has not gotten to the point of unbearable. My husband and I have been going to marriage counselling for over a year now and things seem worse then ever. I truly feel like I need to just get away from him. We have two children, a son (19) and a daughter (17). I have always tried to make it work for them. 

I don't think my husband knows how to love a women. He puts everything before me. He even admitted this in the last session.

He has always had to have most things his way. As an example, when we moved he wanted to tell the Dish network people we were a new account so we would save $100.00 by putting the bill in my name. I wouldn't agree to it, so he faxed a paper to Dish with my name on it requesting a new installation. He then had the payment come out of a checking account I rarely see.

During our counselling we have talked about past grievances and the need to let them go. But how do you let them go if they keep repeating themselves? Example: A few years ago we were remodeling. My husband acted like an a$$ during the whole process. He yelled at me, told me my ideas wouldn't work, and generally made it hard to get anything done. At one point I was wanting to build a desk. He was totally against it. (This is after I have tried to encourage him to do new things. He has low self esteem) I just ignored his rudeness and went ahead with the project. My father came and helped me. Well to make a long story short I ended up telling my husband not to touch any of the wood after he used a piece of trim to start a fire. Luckily the piece he burned wasn't the one I needed. My dad had cut a piece to fit an area for a built in shelf. Time passes things come up and the project is not getting finished. My husband once again goes to my wood and gets a piece and starts a fire with it. This time it is the one I need. We have discussed in counselling how this is inconsiderate. How it makes me feel like I am not entitled to own anything, etc. I tell my husband not to ask my Dad to cut another one. I just feel like what is the point he will just burn it. You would think that since we have discussed this in therapy, this would be the end of it. No he recently used a another piece to start a fire.

I've had it. There are all kinds of examples I could put in here. His excuse is he forgot. He uses this one a lot. I told him I want to get on with my life and not be stuck in this limbo.

He wants to talk about it and is telling me I am shutting down and how is this any different from him shutting down. (Another issue) I told him I would talk about it at therapy.

I just can't live like this anymore. I have to matter. Has anyone been able to move on without divorcing?:scratchhead:


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

LimboGirl said:


> We have two children, a son (19) and a daughter (17). I have always tried to make it work for them.


I have known several people who do this, and while I can see why one would want to try to make it work for the kids, I think it rarely works. 

Kids know, they may not always know what is going on with their parents but they know when their parents are not happy. I think some even know when their parents are putting on a front. 

IMO, I think sometimes staying in a unhappy/unhealthy situation is far worse on the kids than an actual divorce although I'm sure one is about as bad as the other. Now that your kids are pretty much grown and have a better understanding of things, maybe you need to cut your ties with your husband if you feel this is just not working. 

if you have been miserable pretty much a good part of the marriage no reason to keep living that way.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

A close friend of mine KNEW as young as 10 that her parents marriage wasn't working. They kept up appearances and just as she got comfortable wiht the idea that they somehow are making it work....on the day she got dropped off at college they broke the news to her that they were separating and were only together because of her. Basically they waited till her first day in college. Needless to say she's still dealing with it 10 years after she graduated. 
It's not worth it....never let children be an excuse to remain miserable. Always remember that your happiness is the foundation to their happiness whether or not you're married to their other parent.


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## LimboGirl (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks CallaLily. My thoughts are pretty much the same. I just hate hurting my children. I recently read a study that said it was worse to divorce when their older. I thought great what was all this for.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

LimboGirl said:


> Thanks CallaLily. My thoughts are pretty much the same. I just hate hurting my children. I recently read a study that said it was worse to divorce when their older. I thought great what was all this for.


IMO I think it depends on the child(ren). I do think it can effect them at any age, however, I also think it can have a great impact on them when two people stay together if its not working too. 

If you do decide to do this, sit down with them and explain to them how you feel and have been feeling.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

You can learn to detach somewhat. Get your own hobbies - split up your money. There are things you can do to kind of get your own life.

BUT - you won't truly be free to pursue your life the way you want unless you end it.

We considered doing what you are talking about - but I think it would have only delayed the inevitable. It wouldn't have been good for the kids either. Might have saved us a few bucks.

If you are unhappy - and its truly because of your H and the marriage - you need to consider ending it.


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## chattycathy (Aug 19, 2011)

A huge percentage of couples are separated but not divorced for decades until death.

Is that what you are talking about?


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## LimboGirl (Oct 28, 2011)

chattycathy I guess I was thinking of more just living separate lives. I don't know if I can live in the same house with someone and do this. We both work at home.


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## h0pe (Oct 29, 2011)

Thats the hard part for me too: living separate lives under the same roof. Its not healthy I think to live with someone who is hostile, and he is definitely that. Any minor infraction of arbitrarily imposed "Rules" can set him off with a tirade of abusive yelling. Or, if Im lucky, just a cold look. 

To be honest, I dont love him either. I really dont harbor any hopes or desires for it to work out. I dont like him as a person any more after years of his psychological and emotional abuse.

Its sickening to see him go off to church on Sunday morning after turning a cold shoulder to me all week. Or he barricades himself in his computer room reading his Bible and then comes out and is as mean and cold as ever. Does he find some justification in that book? :scratchhead:


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## chattycathy (Aug 19, 2011)

If you both work at home, it will be constant grief for you to stay together while distancing further and further.
I know you two have been to counseling but does he know you are seriously going to give up in frustration? That the marriage is not improving enough to keep you engaged with it? If you tell him you are seriously considering living separate lives for real to escape the sad state of affairs, he might be inspired to really try harder to change for the better. He might not. 
I think if you are planning to live in separate homes but stay married, why stay married? If there is no plan to try to rebuild, why? 
If you plan to live in the same home but live separate lives....grief. Grief. Grief. Grief.
Either way, one of you may very well find someone else to romance and only divorce would be the proper way to work towards that.
YK?


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## LimboGirl (Oct 28, 2011)

chattycathy said:


> If you plan to live in the same home but live separate lives....grief. Grief. Grief. Grief.
> Either way, one of you may very well find someone else to romance and only divorce would be the proper way to work towards that.
> YK?


I think you are right. I've tried to look at what keeps me stuck in this relationship and I feel it is my not wanting to hurt others, not even him.

If I look at everything he does, I come up with a person who is not able to be emotionally intimate with another person. Then I start looking at things one by one and think oh it's not so bad. But really he is very self-centered with low self esteem. I don't think he can change. I care about him, but am not in love with him anymore. Pretending feels so dishonest to me.


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## LimboGirl (Oct 28, 2011)

h0pe said:


> Thats the hard part for me too: living separate lives under the same roof. Its not healthy I think to live with someone who is hostile, and he is definitely that. Any minor infraction of arbitrarily imposed "Rules" can set him off with a tirade of abusive yelling. Or, if Im lucky, just a cold look.
> 
> To be honest, I dont love him either. I really dont harbor any hopes or desires for it to work out. I dont like him as a person any more after years of his psychological and emotional abuse.
> 
> Its sickening to see him go off to church on Sunday morning after turning a cold shoulder to me all week. Or he barricades himself in his computer room reading his Bible and then comes out and is as mean and cold as ever. Does he find some justification in that book? :scratchhead:


I know where you're at. My husband doesn't do the yelling thing much anymore. He did work on that one a few years ago, but he is very clingy. Today I told him I was going to go clean out the concession stand for our daughter's soccer team and he said he would go with me. It's beside an RV park and he said it could be dangerous. He lives his life based on his fears and expects me to do the same. It is about as dangerous as going to the grocery store. I told him no I am going by myself. I expect him to come check on me.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

h0pe said:


> Thats the hard part for me too: living separate lives under the same roof. Its not healthy I think to live with someone who is hostile, and he is definitely that. Any minor infraction of arbitrarily imposed "Rules" can set him off with a tirade of abusive yelling. Or, if Im lucky, just a cold look.
> 
> To be honest, I dont love him either. I really dont harbor any hopes or desires for it to work out. I dont like him as a person any more after years of his psychological and emotional abuse.
> 
> Its sickening to see him go off to church on Sunday morning after turning a cold shoulder to me all week. Or he barricades himself in his computer room reading his Bible and then comes out and is as mean and cold as ever. Does he find some justification in that book? :scratchhead:


Reading his bible? Really? Does he even know the story of Christ? Love your wife as Christ loves the church? Sheesh. He needs to die to himself, his flesh. Give up his will for God's. That is somewhere in the book he is reading.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LimboGirl (Oct 28, 2011)

Just realized in my original post I put "It has not gotten to the point of unbearable." I didn't mean to put the "not." My marriage has gotten to the point of driving me insane and I just want to not think about it anymore.


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## LimboGirl (Oct 28, 2011)

Dedicated2Her said:


> Reading his bible? Really? Does he even know the story of Christ? Love your wife as Christ loves the church? Sheesh. He needs to die to himself, his flesh. Give up his will for God's. That is somewhere in the book he is reading.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think using the Bible to support your somewhat insane viewpoint isn't that uncommon. I don't mean to be offensive, the guy just sounds like he would drive me crazy.


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## LonelyHusband (Sep 2, 2011)

I'm in the same place in my marriage...it's been rough for almost 15 years and I wanted to hold it together for the kids, but it isn't going to happen. I've tried to make it work, but she doesn't care, said she had already moved on...so I'm starting the divorce path..makes me sick but I know it has to be done. I don't think I can move on without it....


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

LimboGirl said:


> chattycathy I guess I was thinking of more just living separate lives. I don't know if I can live in the same house with someone and do this. We both work at home.


My experience is that it doesn't work. In the end, if you don't love the guy and all the marriage is doing is stressing you out and making you hurt then it's to no avail. If you think being nice and trying to accommodate your husband is going to change him or make things easier, than think again. 

Also, I know for a fact that staying together for the kids and having them grow up in an atmosphere which is loveless and cold at best and strife ridden and angry at worse will make it far worse then if you are physically separated or divorced. 

And once you do leave it will be the greatest feeling of relief that you ever had. You'll wonder why you didn't do it years ago. I moved out with my kids a year ago after trying to live separately under the same roof for years. It never worked. It makes it worse. For almost 20 years my husband and I lived like a divorced couple under the same roof. We had completely separate lives right down to us assigning each other a specific weekend day to spend on our own while the other would take care of the kids. We had separate finances, hobbies, friends, took separate vacations. Our sex life varied from boring to nothing. For years, we didn't even have sex. We slept in the same bed but he would sleep fully clothed and at the opposite end of the bed. I would stay up late playing video games because going to bed with that was so hurtful. 

So yes, we were together physically but it was a terrible way to live and we still fought and nit picked at each other much as you and your husband are doing now. 

We tried fixing our marriage a few years back. 21 years to day he proposed to me we sat down and "reconciled" and attempted to fix our marriage. We gave up our separate lives and attempted to act like a married couple and family and for a brief time it seemed to work. We became like newlyweds again and shared hobbies, went out together at night and our sex life was great. But he wouldn't let the past go and used it like a weapon to berate and bully me with. As result, our relationship once again soured, then fell apart due to his "issues." 

Then his drinking started and he stopped working and it got worse and worse. In the end, all I got left with was a crazy, abusive alcoholic husband who is clinically depressed who left us after stopping work to move in to live with his invalid, dying father. It paid off because he then inherited a bunch of money and now attempts to bully and intimidate me and the kids with it. He figures he can buy expensive things for us and we'll all love him despite the way he acts. Now he's wondering why me and the kids don't want to spend time with him. Because he's still an A hole, that's why, and for much of this time, he's a been a drunken A-hole. There is nothing worse or more dangerous than drunk jerk with money. 

A year ago, I moved my kids and I into our apartment. When I realized that our marriage was never going to be fixed I started putting my money away again my own account. Best thing I ever did because it's what saved us. He nearly destroyed our family business and emptied our joint account when he left so my business and savings was what I used to reconstruct my life and finances. Fortunately, in the years that he was falling apart emotionally I'd gotten much stronger and was able to pull it together and be there for my kids. 

It was my older daughter who encouraged me to move out of our rental home and went apartment shopping with me. Best thing I ever did for me AND my kids. Now he still pulls his crap and mind games and emotional abuse but the difference is, this time I'm not living with him so I don't have to put up with his crap and I don't. I find I put up with it less and less. I don't fight any more, I just leave. It drives him crazy! The other day he said "we need to talk about our relationship. " I thought "What relationship?". I just said "I'm done talking." For once, he didn't have anything to say. He was in my apartment and he just left. 

He talks about us living together again but it's NOT going to happen. I will never, ever live with him again. Taking that step and living apart for a year has solidified it in a way that never happened in the 20 years we lived together. It's been a long, hard journey and the hardest part was my making the necessary emotional break and just not caring any more. Not caring about him, the marriage or holding out hope that it would get better. Once I accepted reality and moved on all the crap ended. 

Your kids are even older than mine are and my kids (age 17 and 14) wouldn't have it any other way. They love being in our own place. It's peaceful now. No fighting, no screaming, no strife. This weekend is my son's birthday. What's my husband's "top priority"? (his words, not mine)... Going to pick up his boat from the marina and trailering it back to his house before it snows and he can't do it. . He figures his buying my son a $5000 gaming computer will make up for his not being there. Thing is, we don't WANT him there! The three of us will have a far better time without him and he doesn't even realize it. Years ago we would've had a fight about this but this year I said "Don't worry, do what you want." I'm GLAD he won't be there!

Why don't I divorce him? For a number of reasons that I won't get into here but let's just say that I'm waiting him out and doing what I have to do to secure a financial future for myself in my old age so that I won't be a burden to my kids. Divorce would definitely not be to my advantage financially and I have what I need to live a comfortable nice by just being separate. Why fix what isn't broke? So we are separate and I plan to remain that way. I love living on my own and being free, not just physically but emotionally as well. I've stopped caring about whether our marriage works or if he loves me or not. For me, it's pretty much over. I don't need divorce papers to tell me that. 

If you don't love your husband and feel it's never going to get better then what's the point of staying? I don't know how old you are but you aren't getting any younger. If you think that you are doing yourself or your kids a favor staying with a jerk then you are delusional. If your kids see how you are suffering then they will WANT you to be happy. They will support you as my mine do and actually be happy to see you live a good life on your own. 

If, on the other hand, your kids are are immature and selfish and feel that your leaving your husband is doing harm to THEM then it'll be their problem to deal with. They are NOT children anymore, they are adults and will have to deal with the fact that you are a human being with feeling and needs and one of those needs is that you have to get on with her life. You can't live FOR your children any more than you can live with an abusive A hole who makes you miserable. That's not your role as a parent. or at least it shouldn't be. 

So get up and get out. Just leave him and see how you feel. If you feel relief and peace then that's all you need to know. You've done the right thing. Don't let some misplaced sense of responsibility or compassion for your kids dissuade you. Don't play the martyr. You only live life once. Your kids have their own lives ahead of them. Ask yourself, would you want THEM to live as you do? 

Read my signature..it comes from song called "So Happy" by Theory of a Dead Man. Great song. Check it out on You Tube. Good luck!


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## LimboGirl (Oct 28, 2011)

Freak On a Leash said:


> If you don't love your husband and feel it's never going to get better then what's the point of staying? I don't know how old you are but you aren't getting any younger. If you think that you are doing yourself or your kids a favor staying with a jerk then you are delusional. If your kids see how you are suffering then they will WANT you to be happy. They will support you as my mine do and actually be happy to see you live a good life on your own.


I don't think it is even about whether I love him or not. He has never been the type to let you love him. It is a constant game of letting you get so close and then he shoves you away. This has went on our entire marriage, 22 years. Now I don't even know if I'm capable of being close to anyone. 

I am happiest when he is out of town. This is not often, though. And he tries his best to not go.

I was so upset last night. I had made a comment to my husband and my 17 year old daughter says "You don't say that to him. He's your husband and that's personal." I had told him that studies show that Americans don't touch as much as other cultures and how there is speculation as that being a factor in depression. The comment that got her upset was "so you should hug your dad." The reason I got upset was my husband has always controlled what we talk about. He does this by changing the subject, refusing to talk about things, not actually saying what he feels, etc. But what upset me was my daughter thinking this is how relationships should be.

We go for marriage counselling today. I just dread it. What I dread is we will be in the same car, long story. 

I agree with you. I need out. I'm reading "Too good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay. Things are becoming clearer.

Thanks for you reply.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

LimboGirl said:


> I don't think it is even about whether I love him or not. He has never been the type to let you love him. It is a constant game of letting you get so close and then he shoves you away. This has went on our entire marriage, 22 years. Now I don't even know if I'm capable of being close to anyone.
> 
> I am happiest when he is out of town. This is not often, though. And he tries his best to not go.
> 
> ...


Good luck with counseling today.

As for being in the same car - we had some of our best conversations on the ride home after an appointment.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

> As for being in the same car - we had some of our best conversations on the ride home after an appointment


Yes. My wife's impregnable outer shell cracked after an appointment in the car. 

Week by week, piece by piece. Man, these shells can be thick and massive. lol


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## kekel1123 (Aug 17, 2011)

Well, just do your thing and let him do his and show him that your not affected whatsoever (manning up/ 180) and let him know what he will be loosing in the end. Let her realize the consequences.He should be responsible enough for all his actions and learn to forgive himself first before giving forgiveness to you. You can only change yourself , not him . and give everything to the LORD. Thats what im doing to my wife right now. and somehow she keeps on changing her decisions whether to file or not to file.And i care no more! If that happens , it will! if not, then divine intervention(?) ..... I dont think so. Its just she saw something that made her think and stress her mind out. I dont care no more. I love her till now but I cant force her to stop the filing. It will come from her for she is the one who wanted it. I will not waste time and effort to deal with these nonsense *&T^T! I hade enough! Im just trying to live my life on a day to day basis for MYSELF, and my daughter!because she wants to be out of the picture! let it be and let her DO IT FOR SHE WANTED IT!


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## LimboGirl (Oct 28, 2011)

kekel1123 said:


> Well, just do your thing and let him do his and show him that your not affected whatsoever (manning up/ 180) and let him know what he will be loosing in the end. Let her realize the consequences.He should be responsible enough for all his actions and learn to forgive himself first before giving forgiveness to you. You can only change yourself , not him . and give everything to the LORD. Thats what im doing to my wife right now. and somehow she keeps on changing her decisions whether to file or not to file.And i care no more! If that happens , it will! if not, then divine intervention(?) ..... I dont think so. Its just she saw something that made her think and stress her mind out. I dont care no more. I love her till now but I cant force her to stop the filing. It will come from her for she is the one who wanted it. I will not waste time and effort to deal with these nonsense *&T^T! I hade enough! Im just trying to live my life on a day to day basis for MYSELF, and my daughter!because she wants to be out of the picture! let it be and let her DO IT FOR SHE WANTED IT!


Sometimes I think you have to get to the point where you don't care so you can survive.


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## LimboGirl (Oct 28, 2011)

nice777guy said:


> Good luck with counseling today.
> 
> As for being in the same car - we had some of our best conversations on the ride home after an appointment.


Well I can't say I was in the mode of having a good conversation on the ride home. But I do have to agree there have been some appointments where this has been true. We've been going for over a year now.

Today our appointment was hell for me. I'm just tired of being with someone who emotionally is just out of reach. I actually said today that if it is just his personality to have to always have his way or that he can't ever remember me, I want a divorce. I try not to throw around the big D. He admitted that it seemed like it was just too hard. He did say he loves me but I rarely feel like he loves me, to me your actions speak loader then your words.

I can't be in a relationship where everything else comes first and I don't matter much longer.

All and all a very tiring day.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

LimboGirl said:


> I am happiest when he is out of town.





> We go for marriage counselling today. I just dread it.


Sounds like your gut is telling you something. I feel your pain. Been there, done that with the marriage counseling. My H and I tried it once and all it did was give him more ammunition to use against me. He'd be all congenial and nice in the session and then blast me once we got in the car. I think that's what you mean by being in the car alone with him? MC doesn't work for everyone. It can easily make things worse by supplying ammunition for the abusive spouse. 

Last year, before we separated I was on the verge of a breakdown. My husband encouraged me to call the local clinic here and they sent a social worker over to talk with me. I wanted him to leave when I was talking to the counselor but he wouldn't. He acted all supportive and loving while the counselor was there and I even said "He's nice now but once you leave, all Hell will break loose. " Which is EXACTLY what happened. As soon as she walked out the door he turned and started in on me. 

When I think of all I went through I can't believe it. 

The night he left I drove home and was SO happy and relieved to see that he was truly gone. It was the most amazing feeling. 

I'm sorry that your 17 year old daughter isn't supportive of you. My daughter is the same age and she and my son have been great. My daughter was the one who encouraged me to move out of our old house and into "our own place." She literally can't stand my H. My son is more neutral but he's the most loving, supportive 13 year old you'd ever want to meet. 

What you might have with your kids is that they might think of your husband's treatment of you as NORMAL. That's the danger of exposing kids to years of being raised in a dysfunctional, mean spirited, strife-ridden environment. You think you are doing them a favor by staying together for their sake but you aren't. All they are doing is absorbing and becoming immune to what's really happening. They begin to get used what they are seeing and then accept it and eventually the will emulate it in their own relationships. 

Children learn by example. What kind of example of has your bad marriage shown them? What has the exposure to your husband's cold and loveless personality done for them? Not good things, I can assure you of that. 

Consider this: Your son has seen his mother abused emotionally and thinks that the way a man is supposed to treat a woman and your daughter thinks that's a normal way for a woman to be treated by her husband. How will she learn to detect and protect herself from the same thing happening to her? Answer: She won't. And chances are your son will the same type of abusive husband because it's what he's learned and what he knows. 

I grew up in a very bad environment where my parents fought constantly. When my father left at one point I was relieved. It took me years get over growing up that way. 

You need to save yourself and your kids. Your kids may blame you at first but in the end you are doing them and yourself a big favor.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

LimboGirl said:


> Sometimes I think you have to get to the point where you don't care so you can survive.


Yep..that's the ticket. When you don't give a damn anymore then you are free. Takes awhile to get to that point, even if you can't stand the other person. It's amazing how habitual a relationship can be.


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## Janie (Apr 10, 2010)

h0pe said:


> Thats the hard part for me too: living separate lives under the same roof. Its not healthy I think to live with someone who is hostile, and he is definitely that. Any minor infraction of arbitrarily imposed "Rules" can set him off with a tirade of abusive yelling. Or, if Im lucky, just a cold look.
> 
> To be honest, I dont love him either. I really dont harbor any hopes or desires for it to work out. I dont like him as a person any more after years of his psychological and emotional abuse.
> 
> Its sickening to see him go off to church on Sunday morning after turning a cold shoulder to me all week. Or he barricades himself in his computer room reading his Bible and then comes out and is as mean and cold as ever. Does he find some justification in that book? :scratchhead:


Hope - 

Your marriage and mine sound eerily similar. 

But here, it's gospel music... ugh

A book called 'People of the Lie' (not a light, pleasant, or easy read, but powerful & truthful) -- strongly asserts the Church is where the evil reside to hide. Worth a peek...


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