# 5 Myths About Cheating - WashingtonPost



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Article posted yesterday in the Washington Post:

*Five myths about cheating*

_By: Eric Anderson, Published: February 13

Valentine’s Day excitement is upon us, a time when people’s thoughts turn to romance, flowers, candle-lit dinners — and cheating?

Though this may risk spoiling the holiday, I’ve got to say it: A lot of people in relationships cheat. My in-depth interviews with 120 straight and gay undergraduate men in Britain and the United States, as well as broader research into monogamy, have shown that people are unfaithful more often than not. As we munch on heart-shaped chocolate, let’s take another look at what we’ve wrongly assumed about fidelity.

1. Cheating and affairs are more common among the rich and less common in conservative cultures.

From golf star Tiger Woods to Republican presidential contender Newt Gingrich, cheating seems commonplace among famous and wealthy men. But although studies have found that the more money and celebrity men have, the more likely they are to cheat, cheating is hardly the domain of just the rich and famous. In fact, according to Boston College economist Donald Cox, poorer women are more likely to cheat than wealthy women.

Nor do more socially conservative times erase infidelity. America today may seem more sexually relaxed than in the buttoned-down years immediately following World War II, yet pioneering research by Alfred Kinsey found that married men cheated at rates of around 50 percent.In 1953, Kinsey showed that 26 percent of married women had also been unfaithful. Estimates today find married men cheating at rates between 25 percent and 72 percent. Given that many people are loath to admit that they cheat, research on cheating may underestimate its prevalence. But it appears that cheating is as common as fidelity.

2. If you really love your partner, you’ll remain faithful. 

Perhaps one of the most tragic misconceptions about cheating is that people stray because they have fallen out of love with their partners. We are taught to value fidelity as the litmus test of a relationship and conditioned to feel victimized if someone cheats on us. But my research shows that young men don’t cheat because they have fallen out of love with their partners. Rather, they cheat simply because they desire sex with someone else, even if they want to preserve their relationship.

I found that, though 78 percent of the men I interviewed had cheated on their current partner, only a handful said they cheated because they were near the end of their emotional relationships. And women may respond to similar pressures: According to a 1999 study in the Journal of Social and Personal Relationships, 68 percent of female undergraduates also cheat. (Whether they cheat for sexual or emotional reasons remains unclear.)


3. We generally agree on what counts as cheating. 

In Kinsey’s day, the meaning of cheating was simpler — it involved physical contact with another person. But today, the Internet and its democratization of pornography not only make yesterday’s stigmatized bedroom activities seem mundane but also force us to ask what defines cheating. A few erotic text messages? Former congressman Anthony Weiner’s lewd pics? What about a live Internet sex show, or “camming” — online sex via webcam?

I’ve found little agreement on what counts as cheating among today’s youth. “If you’re just in some chat room [masturbating], and you are watching other people you’re chatting with, that’s not really cheating, is it?” one of my participants said. “You’re not actually doing anything with them. It’s just fantasy.”

Others disagreed. One said, “It doesn’t matter whether it’s just chat or camming, you’re cheating.” Unsure about what form of cybersex might upset a partner, the strategy of almost all of the men I interviewed, gay or straight, was don’t ask, don’t tell.


4. Your partner won’t stray as long as you keep your sex life exciting. 

If you’re in a relationship, spicing up the physical intimacy won’t prevent cheating. Worse, buying into this myth makes the wronged individuals blame themselves for their partner’s infidelity.

For most people, monogamy does not necessarily provide a lifetime of sexual contentment. This is perhaps particularly true for youth who have grown up in a pornified culture; men in my study found themselves increasingly less interested in sex with their partners as months passed. Within two years, almost all of my subjects had cheated. “At the start I wasn’t cheating on her,” one explained. “But it felt like I was getting the same old thing. I just needed some other sex.”


5. Most married people don’t cheat. 

In a 1991 study, sex researcher Shere Hite found that 70 percent of married women have cheated on their partners; a 1993 follow-up study found that 72 percent of married men have as well. According to a 2004 University of Chicago study, 25 percent of married men have had at least one extramarital affair. And with more than 12 million members looking for extramarital intimacy on Web site ****************** (tagline: “Life is short. Have an affair.”), it’s easier than ever to break marriage vows. A wedding ring is not insurance against cheating.

Although society cherishes monogamy, the expectation of exclusive sexual activity is unsustainable for most couples. We may need to investigate other relationship models: open arrangements, or what sex columnist Dan Savage calls “monogamish” relationships, in which couples have flings, affairs or threesomes. These ways of loving, along with polyamorous relationships and even singlehood, should be as equally valued in our culture as monogamy. Only when men and women are able to make sexual choices free of stigma will people be honest with their partners about their desires._

Five myths about cheating - The Washington Post

::Goes off to grab some popcorn::


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> 5. Most married people don’t cheat.
> 
> In a 1991 study, sex researcher Shere Hite found that 70 percent of married women have cheated on their partners; a 1993 follow-up study found that 72 percent of married men have as well. According to a 2004 University of Chicago study, 25 percent of married men have had at least one extramarital affair. And with more than 12 million members looking for extramarital intimacy on Web site ****************** (tagline: “Life is short. Have an affair.”), it’s easier than ever to break marriage vows. A wedding ring is not insurance against cheating.


Is that study for real?

70% of people in marriages have cheated?
Am I reading that wrong?

I`ve got to stop coming to this board.

Jelly your post makes me want to put a VAR in my wifes car for no other reason!


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Is that study for real?
> 
> 70% of people in marriages have cheated?
> Am I reading that wrong?
> ...


That wording is pretty loose. Does that mean cheated on their existing partners, or cheated on a partner at some point in their life. The context suggests the former, but it would not be the first time a reporter missed the point of a study. It is also so different than the other study that listed 25% that I have to wonder about the sample selected.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

tacoma said:


> Is that study for real?
> 
> 70% of people in marriages have cheated?
> Am I reading that wrong?
> ...


 Keith E Rice - The Sex Reports _ Methodology
Hite uses an individualistic research method. Thousands of responses from anonymous questionnaires were used as a framework to develop a discourse on human responses to gender and sexuality. Her conclusions derived from these questionnaire data have met with methodological criticism. The fact that her data are not probability samples raises concerns about whether the sample data can be generalised to relevant populations. As is common with surveys concerning sensitive subjects, such as sexual behaviour, the proportion of nonresponse is typically large. Thus the conclusions derived from the data may not represent the views of the population under study because of bias due to nonresponse. Hite supporters defend her methodology by saying that it is more likely to get to the truth of women's sexuality than studying women engaged in prostitution as if they were exemplary of women in general or to study in laboratory conditions women who claim to orgasm during coitus.

Hite has been praised for her theoretical fruitfulness in sociological research. The suggestion of bias in some of Hite's studies is frequently used as a talking point in university courses where sampling methods are discussed._


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

> Although society cherishes monogamy, the expectation of exclusive sexual activity is unsustainable for most couples. We may need to investigate other relationship models: open arrangements, or what sex columnist Dan Savage calls “monogamish” relationships, in which couples have flings, affairs or threesomes. These ways of loving, along with polyamorous relationships and even singlehood, should be as equally valued in our culture as monogamy. Only when men and women are able to make sexual choices free of stigma will people be honest with their partners about their desires.



So the take away from this article is above and beyond the outrageous numbers quoted. The conclusion is that monogamy is a farce and unsustainable by couples in general and that we may need to consider other alternatives ... As is it the honest thing to do. Being free of stigma.

No agenda here. Probably a big boost for that website just from the article. Was this an advertisement?


68 percent of those coeds cheat but when they get married the cheating moves up to 70%. Wow. Girls Night Out anyone? Just kidding. The numbers are all over the place. I think you can get high numbers depending on what counts as cheating and by the sample of people you are using. Yet other studies say 10% of married women have cheated.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

tacoma said:


> Jelly your post makes me want to put a VAR in my wifes car for no other reason!


The question you should be asking is not: 'Am I paranoid' but: 'Am I paranoid enough?'

hahahaha.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Is that study for real?
> 
> Jelly your post makes me want to put a VAR in my wifes car for no other reason!


:lol:


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> The question you should be asking is not: 'Am I paranoid' but: 'Am I paranoid enough?'
> 
> hahahaha.


Or perhaps the question is "It's not IF I'm going to be cheated on but WHEN? So many stories here where a couple have been married for 20, 30 years and then WHAM!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Maybe I'm jaded, but those numbers don't surprise me. Whether they're accurate or not is another question.

Makes me want to send my kids somewhere in a bubble though. Doesn't bode well for their future relationships.


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> 2. If you really love your partner, you’ll remain faithful.


Not a myth at all. You don't f*** someone else if you love your SO.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

There's too much variances on all the different studies out there. Besides, if we worry too much about our partners cheating, we'll never enjoy our time together...

Really, the only way to go is to be good to one another and hope for the best...


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Love is a conscious choice just as cheating is a conscious choice. It's never an accident or a 'mistake'

I've yet to see a man, married to another woman, accidentally fall over a woman, married to another man, and his penis gets thrusted into her vagina. Then he saying to her "Hey! Your vagina swallowed my penis!" and she saying to him "Hey! Your penis is inside my vagina", then both of them saying at the same time "Hey this feels great". It's never a Reese's peanut butter cup situation folks


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

""Perhaps one of the most tragic misconceptions about cheating is that people stray because they have fallen out of love with their partners.""

Its the excuse they use and affirm themselves with only AFTER they are caught..


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

I agree...I can't predict the future, and I'm not perfect, but I really really HOPE, that if I'm ever faced with the decision of whether or not to cheat - that this time, I'll make the right choice.

While I'm hoping, I may as well hope that life never thrusts me down this particular road again, because I already know where it ends!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I don't think cheating has anything to do with love in a lot of cases. Sex does not = love. I love my husband but my vibrator gives me orgasms - I certainly don't love my husband any less because of that. If it was a penis in the flesh attached to a man, it isn't such a leap to say I still love my husband but I just wanted a bit of extra sex on the side.

And same with EA's. I have three kids and I love them all. Why couldn't I also love two or more men romantically?


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Researchers can make #'s say anything they want

The results of that specific study, is still in reality for those questioned, only, maybe a sample of the whole culture but not necessarily so---also those studies are 20 yrs old----wonder what the #'s would be today.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Depressing stuff really. Why get married in the end.


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> I don't think cheating has anything to do with love in a lot of cases. Sex does not = love. I love my husband but my vibrator gives me orgasms - I certainly don't love my husband any less because of that. If it was a penis in the flesh attached to a man, it isn't such a leap to say I still love my husband but I just wanted a bit of extra sex on the side.
> 
> And same with EA's. I have three kids and I love them all. Why couldn't I also love two or more men romantically?


Because "cheating" has nothing to do with sex toys... it has to do with proclamations of trust and dedication spoken to a person and then breaking those proclamations. That "penis attached to another guy" is also attached to a heart and soul, not just some lifeless dummy. When you cheat is it a betrayal of heart and soul, it has nothing to do with a penis or vagina. It is *completely* about love.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

But I really think that's how cheaters think. It certainly isn't how I think - don't get me wrong. I can see, though, how someone can justify in their own mind that the object of their sexual desire is nothing but a way of 'scratching an itch'.

And the point with my kids is that, if humans can love more than one child, why can't they love more than one lover? I don't think there's only one person for each of us in this world - I think we have the potential to love many people romantically. Cheaters sometimes actually do love more than one person at a time, the mistake they make is to act on those feelings with both rather than choose one or the other.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> But I really think that's how cheaters think. It certainly isn't how I think - don't get me wrong. I can see, though, how someone can justify in their own mind that the object of their sexual desire is nothing but a way of 'scratching an itch'.
> 
> And the point with my kids is that, if humans can love more than one child, why can't they love more than one lover? I don't think there's only one person for each of us in this world - I think we have the potential to love many people romantically. Cheaters sometimes actually do love more than one person at a time, the mistake they make is to act on those feelings with both rather than choose one or the other.


I love my wife more than myself. But I am capable of loving any number of women in theory. Not all at once. One at a time. That is why I have learned to have a healthy respect for the power of love. We are all capable of falling in love with other people.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

morituri said:


> Love is a conscious choice just as cheating is a conscious choice. It's never an accident or a 'mistake'
> 
> I've yet to see a man, married to another woman, accidentally fall over a woman, married to another man, and his penis gets thrusted into her vagina. Then he saying to her "Hey! Your vagina swallowed my penis!" and she saying to him "Hey! Your penis is inside my vagina", then both of them saying at the same time "Hey this feels great". It's never a Reese's peanut butter cup situation folks


EAs happen all of the time. Most do not realize it is an EA. They are just friends. Been there. No this is not the same as what you are pointing out. But it gets started with an EA.

I am sorry if this is not what folks want to hear. And I have spent the last umteen years thinking about this and I am not deluding myself. It is actually scary. Like being on a drug.

I state this as a warning to those that have poor boundaries. Get some. Once involved pulling back is not so easy.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> I don't think cheating has anything to do with love in a lot of cases. Sex does not = love. I love my husband but my vibrator gives me orgasms - I certainly don't love my husband any less because of that. If it was a penis in the flesh attached to a man, it isn't such a leap to say I still love my husband but I just wanted a bit of extra sex on the side.
> 
> *And same with EA's. I have three kids and I love them all. Why couldn't I also love two or more men romantically?*


Different kinda love. Different chemical as well.

The love you have with your kids is oxytocin related. The romantic love is some amoutn of oxytocin but mostly focused on dopamine.

Typically it is thought that men are interested in mating with as many women as possible, while women are searching for the best Alpha available. It may seem to be the same thing but there are very specific differences too.

So you can love someone ( oxytocin ) but not be in love ( dopamine ) with them. In fact this is fairly stable state.

I do not buy into the vibrator analogy. Its just sex. This may be true for some people, but I think they have a disorder of some kind.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> EAs happen all of the time. Most do not realize it is an EA. They are just friends. Been there. No this is not the same as what you are pointing out. But it gets started with an EA.
> 
> I am sorry if this is not what folks want to hear. And I have spent the last umteen years thinking about this and I am not deluding myself. It is actually scary. Like being on a drug.


You are right in that most cheaters don't wake up one day and say to themselves "Wow I think I'm going to have some fun and cheat on my spouse". Nevertheless in the end it is a series of choices on the part of the cheater that lead him/her down the slippery slope that tunr a seemingly innocent friendship into an EA and later on into a PA or full blown affair.


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## I_Will_Survive (Oct 28, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> But I really think that's how cheaters think. It certainly isn't how I think - don't get me wrong. I can see, though, how someone can justify in their own mind that the object of their sexual desire is nothing but a way of 'scratching an itch'.
> 
> ... Cheaters sometimes actually do love more than one person at a time, the mistake they make is to act on those feelings with both rather than choose one or the other.


The truth is, even cheaters are human, and experiencing an orgasm in the presence of another human being engenders feelings of love. That's the problem. It starts with "scratching an itch" and moves, oh so quickly, to "I am in love with this other person."


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

To say that all cheating has nothing to do with love is disengenuous and very naive.

People can and do "fall in love" with others ... a lot. I am not saying that the whole continuum does not exist of sleazeballs but the fact is that people fall in love. Not all people cheat when they fall in love. Some cut it off. Others are more honorable. They divorce and remarry. Not saying these relationships last but last time I checked a lot of marriages fail. I wonder how many fail because one person or the other has poor boundaries and is having their needs met by someone else.

I do not in any way think it is as simple as, if someone wants to cheat they will cheat. I used to think this way when I was younger. I believe now that the overwhelming number of folks who end up being unfaithful are human beings with poor boundaries. Character flaws probably do exist but not as much as we might suspect.

It is a natural to fall in love. I am not making a moral judgement. It is very possibel for us to bond with someone and it turn inappropriate. I suggest that this is more common than not. People just think it is a friendship.

Deny this at your own peril. It is not just about good people and bad people. It is about people.

I donlt care if 99% of the people on TAM disagree with me. If just one person thinks about this and realizes that maybe just maybe they could fall into an inappropriate relationship and make a better choice then I have done what I intended to do.

Happy Valentines everyone.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Oneman - you seem to contradict yourself. If sex does not = love, as you agreed with me earlier, then how could loving more than one person translate into an orgy???

If you had a look at some of my previous posts you'd see that I actually don't think marriage is for everyone. I think I'm thinking esoterically here and you're thinking on a different plane, a more practical one maybe?

I think we're actually saying some of the same things


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## I_Will_Survive (Oct 28, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Is that study for real?
> 
> 70% of people in marriages have cheated?
> Am I reading that wrong?
> ...


That's actually a good point. 24 years ago, long before my marriage, I cheated on a new boyfriend with an old one. (can you say, "goodbye sex? I knew you could.")

I have thought lately that that single incident is why I am experiencing the other side of infidelity today. FML. (My fault.)


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I_Will_Survive said:


> The truth is, even cheaters are human, *and experiencing an orgasm in the presence of another human being engenders feelings of love.* That's the problem. It starts with "scratching an itch" and moves, oh so quickly, to "I am in love with this other person."


This is absolutely correct. Couples do bond with orgasm. This is partly why guys obsess about wanting their women to have them. He is looking for the full impact of the lovemaking.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

morituri said:


> You are right in that most cheaters don't wake up one day and say to themselves "Wow I think I'm going to have some fun and cheat on my spouse". Nevertheless in the end it is a series of choices on the part of the cheater that lead him/her down the slippery slope that tunr a seemingly innocent friendship into an EA and later on into a PA or full blown affair.


We agree. It is just a shades of gray thing on how things get started. I felt I was superman and had too much character to stray at all. By most peoples standards they would say I just had a close friendship with a female. I thought that. I was wrong. I was closer and in deeper than I thought. There was never any physical activities but we were too close and it could have gone further. It started very innocent. We were both too naive and had no boundaries. I was an idiot. The people who go to those sites and do other things purposely to engage with others are not the greatest human being on the planet. Also I do agree there are places along the way people make clear choices.

If cheating is actual physical intercourse or oral sex, then I would say that the number sof those who are just plain unfaithful are much larger. I say this because faithful is a much grayer and broader concept. Also harder to define. It is not just confined to sex either.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Sorry, I seem to have struck a nerve with you. I really do not have an 'agenda'. I'm just taking part in the discussion. Well, actually not any more since I am leaving work now and going home to my husband who cheated on me two years ago but is doing a helluva job R'ing with me, to celebrate Valentines day


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> Sorry, I seem to have struck a nerve with you. I really do not have an 'agenda'. I'm just taking part in the discussion. Well, actually not any more since I am leaving work now and going home to my husband who cheated on me two years ago but is doing a helluva job R'ing with me, to celebrate Valentines day


The forum is for discussion. Sometimes it feels like a little bit of conflict but you know, sometimes that helps us all sort things out. Sometimes I am typing stuff and realize my down fall. People are just sharing their thoughts. How else can we learn?


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

I_Will_Survive said:


> That's actually a good point. 24 years ago, long before my marriage, I cheated on a new boyfriend with an old one. (can you say, "goodbye sex? I knew you could.")
> 
> I have thought lately that that single incident is why I am experiencing the other side of infidelity today. FML. (My fault.)


You mean karma? I've been on both sides myself. I'm not afraid of karma, I'm afraid of women who are like the one I used to be.

Again, all I can do is live my life right, and hope that my husband chooses to do the same. If I expect him to cheat at every given opportunity, just because I was once the cheater, then we may as well call it quits.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I think this study is trying to unlink monogomy from sex. To me, monogomy is not the same as love, cheating is not the same as polygamy. Cheating is about honesty, and honesty has a lot to do with love. If someone wants to be in a polygamous relationship, who am I to argue with that, I am liberal-minded and really could care less what consenting adults do as long as they are not hurting others. The problem with infidelity is it denies the betrayed partner the right to informed consent.

Now my head hurts :scratchhead:


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Lon said:


> I think this study is trying to unlink monogomy from sex. To me, monogomy is not the same as love, cheating is not the same as polygamy. Cheating is about honesty, and honesty has a lot to do with love. If someone wants to be in a polygamous relationship, who am I to argue with that, I am liberal-minded and really could care less what consenting adults do as long as they are not hurting others. *The problem with infidelity is it denies the betrayed partner the right to informed consent.*
> 
> Now my head hurts :scratchhead:


This is key. And one of the things I didn't like about this EA my guy had with this so called ex was the fact that she knew a lot about me for a long time before I knew even anything about her. When he did finally come clean, he forwarded me an e-mail with her e-mail address on it. I e-mailed her something.

Do you know I was discussing this situation on another relationship message board and several women chastised me for invading this woman's privacy?!?!?!?


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Sex and Love are different actions. You can have sex with someone you don't love(PA), and you can love someone without sex(EA). And yes, cheaters can cheat and still love their spouse or SO. I have cheated, but would not leave my spouse for any of those women. They were satisfying a singular urge, nothing more. I would never use family money to take them out or get hotels, I usually went for women in much better positions financially. Is it right, no, but everyone has a flaw or fault. Even you folks who claim they will never cheat or think cheaters have flaws, so don't go down this holier than thou path. 
Just as how there are a larger percentage of men who can cheat without falling for the OW, inversely, there is a small percentage of women capable of the same. And where there are a large percentage of women who will fall for the OM, there is a small percentage of men that will as well. 
Does this ability to compartmentalize it make you stronger or weaker mentally? Who knows.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

mikeydread1982 said:


> Sex and Love are different actions. You can have sex with someone you don't love(PA), and you can love someone without sex(EA).


Oh, I definitely agree with that. 



mikeydread1982 said:


> Does this ability to compartmentalize it make you stronger or weaker mentally? Who knows.


Interesting thought.


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> I don't think cheating has anything to do with love in a lot of cases. Sex does not = love. I love my husband but my vibrator gives me orgasms - I certainly don't love my husband any less because of that. If it was a penis in the flesh attached to a man, it isn't such a leap to say I still love my husband but I just wanted a bit of extra sex on the side.


Tell your husband that, see if he agrees. Better yet, tell him, "I love you, but I want another man inside me. But I will still love you the entire time he is penetrating me"

I realize he has cheated on you, but that is irrelevant to the principle of the discussion.


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

Complexity said:


> Depressing stuff really. Why get married in the end.


Exactly. And there are alot of people here not fit to be married.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

The question is moot because by having an affair, a spouse is already showing weakness.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Dexter Morgan said:


> Tell your husband that, see if he agrees. Better yet, tell him, "I love you, but I want another man inside me. But I will still love you the entire time he is penetrating me"
> 
> I realize he has cheated on you, but that is irrelevant to the principle of the discussion.


Just because she can seperate the 2 feelings and actions, does not mean she wishes to act on it. 
have you loved every person you have had sex with?(and if you did, that would explain a lot more than if you did not) did you have sex with every person you loved? Even before having my affair and even wanting to, I was able to seperate the 2.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

OneMan said:


> You didn't separate the two when you were in the arms of another woman, that's just the rationalization you used in order to keep cheating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have to agree.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Dexter Morgan said:


> Tell your husband that, see if he agrees. Better yet, tell him, "I love you, but I want another man inside me. But I will still love you the entire time he is penetrating me"
> 
> I realize he has cheated on you, but that is irrelevant to the principle of the discussion.


I am not saying I want any such thing. And if I did want it, I am certainly not going to act on it. I was using it as an illustration of what I *think* may go on in the minds of some cheaters. Not all cheaters, but some.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

OneMan said:


> You didn't separate the two when you were in the arms of another woman, that's just the rationalization you used in order to keep cheating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Last I checked, I was not in love with any other woman. And the things I do for my wife, I wouldn't do for any other woman. Sooooo..not sure what your idea of love is, but its beyond just sex.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Tall Average Guy said:


> That wording is pretty loose. Does that mean cheated on their existing partners, or cheated on a partner at some point in their life.


It means 70% have cheated........on their taxes.  
Ridiculous stats.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

mikeydread1982 said:


> Last I checked, I was not in love with any other woman.


"Last I checked, I was not in love with any woman".

There I fixed it for you. You simply cannot cheat, lie, deceive, manipulate, put in harms way, steal time/marital resources and claim to love the person you are doing that to. Not a chance. 
My guess is you also haven't told her. It sounds like you can compartmentalize that part as well.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> "Last I checked, I was not in love with any woman".
> 
> There I fixed it for you. You simply cannot cheat, lie, deceive, manipulate, put in harms way, steal time/marital resources and claim to love the person you are doing that to. Not a chance.
> My guess is you also haven't told her. It sounds like you can compartmentalize that part as well.


Really? So you never lied to your parents, and if you did, you obviously don't love them. And I don't use any family resources to do my dirt, I go for women that are usually a lot more financially stable than I am. I didn't downgrade when I did that. And lastly, yes, she knows. I told her of each instance. However, we are working to move past it. So now that you're wrong on all counts, i'm sure you still feel that way. these holier than thou-ers I tell you


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

mikeydread1982 said:


> Really? So you never lied to your parents, and if you did, you obviously don't love them. And I don't use any family resources to do my dirt, I go for women that are usually a lot more financially stable than I am. I didn't downgrade when I did that. And lastly, yes, she knows. I told her of each instance. However, we are working to move past it. So now that you're wrong on all counts, i'm sure you still feel that way. these holier than thou-ers I tell you


1. I've never cheated on any partner I had. 2. You used family resources whether you know it or not. Time is a resource. 
I am not wrong on any count, you however are living in denial if you think any of your actions show love. Not holier than thou. I just call out ridiculous "justifications" when I see it.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I think what it boils down to is semantics. I think it's very possible to love someone and cheat on them. But if your definition of love includes remaining faithful, then you wouldn't agree with me. Love is impossible to define the same for everyone. I think some cheaters DO still love their spouse by their own definition.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> 1. I've never cheated on any partner I had. 2. You used family resources whether you know it or not. Time is a resource.
> I am not wrong on any count, you however are living in denial if you think any of your actions show love. Not holier than thou. I just call out ridiculous "justifications" when I see it.


By your own admission, lying to someone means you do not love them. You said it.
The time used for my indescretions was time that I am allotted for my personal time anyhow. And as adults, we are allowed personal time, no? Not living in denial, i have accepted the wrongs I have committed, just as my wife has admitted to hers, does not mean there is no love. 
And remember, no sin is "bigger" than the other. So if you've done one, you're no better than I am. Your flaws are just materialized in a different manner.

And based on that little quote under your comments, however funny, shows your line of thinking. Just remember, peace on earth was not jeopordized during the finding baby Jesus, it was this minor incident with an apple. Lol.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

mikeydread1982 said:


> By your own admission, lying to someone means you do not love them. You said it.
> The time used for my indescretions was time that I am allotted for my personal time anyhow. And as adults, we are allowed personal time, no? Not living in denial, i have accepted the wrongs I have committed, just as my wife has admitted to hers, does not mean there is no love.
> And remember, no sin is "bigger" than the other. So if you've done one, you're no better than I am. Your flaws are just materialized in a different manner.
> 
> And based on that little quote under your comments, however funny, shows your line of thinking. Just remember, peace on earth was not jeopordized during the finding baby Jesus, it was this minor incident with an apple. Lol.


I said the actions that come with infidelity means you don't love the person. Lying is only part of that equation. There are lots of other components. That was my point and you took it out of context. 

Justify whatever you want. You fail to see that even on your "personal time" you were hurting your family. Not worth arguing with you at this point. If your wife is cool with it, so be it.

Apple? Yeah and all animals are decedents from the animals on that little floaty thingy.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I said the actions that come with infidelity means you don't love the person. Lying is only part of that equation. There are lots of other components. That was my point and you took it out of context.
> 
> Justify whatever you want. You fail to see that even on your "personal time" you were hurting your family. Not worth arguing with you at this point. If your wife is cool with it, so be it.
> 
> ...


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

OneMan said:


> I never said anything about love when I was replying to you.
> 
> So are you claiming to have never done the things you did with your wife, with your affair partner?


No, I'm saying the day to to day things I do for my wife, I would never do for the OW. I would never want them to think the relationship is anything beyond sexual. And the only things I did with them that I didn't with my wife may be some positions that she finds uncomfortable, or multiple times in a night.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

mikeydread1982 said:


> No, I'm saying the day to to day things I do for my wife, I would never do for the OW. I would never want them to think the relationship is anything beyond sexual. And the only things I did with them that I didn't with my wife may be some positions that she finds uncomfortable, or multiple times in a night.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Okay, let's agree to disagree on the love part. May I ask a question though? Why are you cheating? Why are you risking everything you have and the love of a good woman? :scratchhead:


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Okay, let's agree to disagree on the love part. May I ask a question though? Why are you cheating? Why are you risking everything you have and the love of a good woman? :scratchhead:


Well, I *was *cheating. And during that time, the wife and I were in a bad place. She had her moment of infidelity as well, and when it came to light, we were arguing a lot. She would not want to talk to me about it, and I wasn't given a chance to heal. She would also say terrible things when we did get in an argument. So, I went to regain my manhood, and after a few times out, I did. It felt great, I had a good time. Once I got it out of my system, I was able to keep it moving. We still talk about hers, because it was during a good time in our relationship that it happened, so I never understood what led her to it. So we just talk when we can about it. 
Was it all about ego, absolutely, did it mean I didn't love her, sure doesn't. We were just at a rough patch. We all go through them in one form or another. its that same love that we supposedly lack that keeps it together and going well now.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

mikeydread1982 said:


> ...So, I went to regain my manhood, and after a few times out, I did. It felt great, I had a good time. Once I got it out of my system, I was able to keep it moving. We still talk about hers, because it was during a good time in our relationship that it happened, so I never understood what led her to it. So we just talk when we can about it.
> Was it all about ego, absolutely, did it mean I didn't love her, sure doesn't. We were just at a rough patch. We all go through them in one form or another. its that same love that we supposedly lack that keeps it together and going well now.


Based on your reasoning, whether you are in a rough patch or not, she just had to get it out of her system too, it just happened to not be when you thought it would be possible. There really is no point in trying to understand the reasons for her affair, to do so under your rationale would be hypocritical.

Just to be clear, I am not judging you or your relationship, no matter what the values of you and your W you seem to be suggesting that as long as both of you are vested in the marriage you will both be happy!


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

morituri said:


> Love is a conscious choice just as cheating is a conscious choice. It's never an accident or a 'mistake'
> 
> I've yet to see a man, married to another woman, accidentally fall over a woman, married to another man, and his penis gets thrusted into her vagina. Then he saying to her "Hey! Your vagina swallowed my penis!" and she saying to him "Hey! Your penis is inside my vagina", then both of them saying at the same time "Hey this feels great". It's never a Reese's peanut butter cup situation folks


you got peanut butter on my c**k. no you got P***y on my peanut butter.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lon said:


> Based on your reasoning, whether you are in a rough patch or not, she just had to get it out of her system too, it just happened to not be when you thought it would be possible. There really is no point in trying to understand the reasons for her affair, to do so under your rationale would be hypocritical.
> 
> Just to be clear, I am not judging you or your relationship, no matter what the values of you and your W you seem to be suggesting that as long as both of you are vested in the marriage you will both be happy!


Oh, I know this is a judgment free zone, I don't take anything said here personally. But trying to understand the reason for her affai is not hypocritical, it was unprovoked, unwarranted and was not with/for something better(according to her of course). There was nothing to get out of her system. We were at that honeymoon stage, when neither of us could do no wrong. Then, she did. I don't know how else to make it more clear that it is an absolute mind F when your spouse cheats when you thought you were being great. It's like, at that point, what can you do to exceed damn near perfect to maintain their interest. Which is what drove me nuts I think.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

What is hypocritical is being able to separate love from sex and fidelity then trying to rationalize that cheating only makes sense when the feelings of love start to wane.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

2. If you really love your partner, you’ll remain faithful.

3. We generally agree on what counts as cheating.

Hmmm. This has been an interesting discussion about love, sex, relationships and cheating. It shows me that as people don’t always agree to what is cheating they also may not agree to what love is.

There seems to be two types of love discussed on this thread: 

1.	Love as an emotion/feeling confined to an individual
2.	Love as a state of being of a relationship between two people.

There have been arguments that say there is no love if there is cheating of any kind so that myth number two is not really a myth and is explained by the loss of the love relationship caused by the cheater. The other argument says that for the individual feeling of love can still exist but cheating may occur anyway. I really think that how one defines love here is not the important thing.

I think that the actual point of myth number two is that you or your spouse can be blindsided by temptation to be unfaithful whether or not you are in a good relationship. Just because you have an otherwise good relationship does not mean you or your spouse is immune to an affair. A good relationship is not the last defense.

Good boundaries are needed in addition to a good relationship.


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## Wolfgar (Nov 15, 2011)

I think this whole discussion revolves around each individuals definition of LOVE. There's no right or wrong answers. It's different for everybody...maybe the key here is to be honest to yourself and spouse about what your version of love actually entails...


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I haven't read all the comments, but what is striking here is the disagreement over whether or not people who cheat "love" their spouse. 

In one corner we have, "Yes, they loved their partner but only started 'rewriting' the history of their relationship after they cheated."

In the other corner we have, "Of course I can love one man/woman and have sex with another--or maybe I'm in love with two different people at the same time." 

As someone who knew my marriage wasn't great and I wasn't happy and I didn't love my ex for a long time before I finally left--but had a hard time admitting it to myself--I tend to think that people cheat BECAUSE they are unhappy in their marriage. Note: that does NOT make it "right" or "ok," because while being unhappy in marriage is nearly always a failure on the part of both parties, the cheating is 100% on the cheater. At the same time, I don't condemn cheaters like some folks do; they were cowardly and should have left first, but didn't; it was a mistake, yes, but I'm not going to judge someone as a horrible person because they made that mistake.

Now, the quiz: How many times different positions did I state in this post? Ha, even I lost track in trying to consider all the different povs (points of view) on these issues!


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## Falene (Dec 31, 2011)

It isn't a question of whether cheaters love their spouses.

It is a statement that cheaters love themselves more.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Falene said:


> It isn't a question of whether cheaters love their spouses.
> 
> It is a statement that cheaters love themselves more.


Well, in order to love others, you have to love yourself. Just saying
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Falene (Dec 31, 2011)

mikeydread1982 said:


> Well, in order to love others, you have to love yourself. Just saying
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed, but that doesn't mean you have to love yourself more. 

Just saying.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

OneMan said:


> When you decide to go into a monogamous relationship, or even get married, it's clear what the definition of LOVE is. Just because one wants to freak with another man/woman at their spouse's expense doesn't mean it is right. That has nothing to do with love. Far from it.


No it's not clear otherwise we wouldn't be having this dicussion. The point is for some people love has a LOT to do with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

OK, so what is to be said.of people that cheated and reconciled and are thriving? They don't love each other? Give me a break, its you hyper emotional people that cannot seperate the 2. Think back to when you were single, did you love every single person you had sex with? If you say yes, then I'm talking about you. The clingy, needy, I have to always be in love, type. Get your emotions in check.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

mikeydread1982 said:


> OK, so what is to be said.of people that cheated and reconciled and are thriving? They don't love each other? Give me a break, its you hyper emotional people that cannot seperate the 2. Think back to when you were single, did you love every single person you had sex with? If you say yes, then I'm talking about you. The clingy, needy, I have to always be in love, type. Get your emotions in check.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yes, and your boundaries too.


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

I don't worry too much about if there are myths about cheating.

I only need to know one thing.....whether or not it occurred.


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