# Affection solely as a prelude to sex?



## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

How much of this are we guilty of? 10%, 50%, 90%?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Well, when you have lots of great affection and lots of great sex, it is kinda a chicken and egg thing. Are we so affectionate because we have so much great sex? Or do we have so much great sex because we're so affectionate?


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I would like to show affection all the time. My wife only accepts affection when she is willing to have sex.

So there isn't much affection!!!


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Well, when you have lots of great affection and lots of great sex, it is kinda a chicken and egg thing. Are we so affectionate because we have so much great sex? Or do we have so much great sex because we're so affectionate?


My point is when affection is *solely* used to obtain sex. This often has the same effect as when a "friend" only pays a visit when he/she wants something. It leaves a very bad taste in ones mouth.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Not guilty of anything here. We have good balance of affection and sex. TBH I would not tolerate being with someone that only showed affection when they wanted sex, sorry not in my world.


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## ChristianGrey (Nov 27, 2014)

One only prepares food when one is hungry...

Unless you work in a restaurant.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

Today I'm about 50% guilty. I wish I were 100% guilty tho - because I think sometimes it's (it was) frustrating for my husband when I come up for a passionate kiss just for that kiss, and for nothing else.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Besides the perfunctory kiss before leaving for work and upon arriving home from work, my ex ONLY showed affection as a prelude to sex. And because he was very LD, there was very little sex. Thus, very little affection.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

We are affectionate all the time, sex or not. Maybe that's part of the reason sex is so prevalent with us.

Looking on the bright side, though, affection soley as a prelude to sex is better than an infection solely as a postlude to sex!


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I think there's a chicken/egg problem here.

If you have a healthy sex life with your spouse there's a better chance of getting affection without the expectation of sex. But if sex is lacking, then it's frustrating for a spouse to show affection, quickly get aroused because there hasn't been any sexual satisfaction and then look for sex to follow the affection (or even initiate affection with the hopes of sex).

When we were having problems my wife complained that I didn't cuddle with her. Since we weren't having sex often cuddling = arousal = wanting to have sex. Since she never wanted to have sex, I didn't want to cuddle. It can be a maddening circle.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I think that if couples have sex a couple of times a week, then affection becomes something other than a prelude for sex. 

If couples have sex a couple of times a month, then affection only happens as a prelude for sex. It is because the LD partner is trying to avoid sex and the HD partner is trying to avoid rejection.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

My wife and I have more towards the affection side. The only reason is there are only so many places we can get away with having sex and not getting arrested. 
Our affection does not always culminate with sex. Nor it seen as a prelude to sex.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Holland said:


> Not guilty of anything here. We have good balance of affection and sex. TBH I would not tolerate being with someone that only showed affection when they wanted sex, sorry not in my world.


Agree and I wouldn't be with someone that withheld sex to get affection. Affection and sex should be given freely from both partners and not as an agenda


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> I think there's a chicken/egg problem here.
> 
> If you have a healthy sex life with your spouse there's a better chance of getting affection without the expectation of sex. But if sex is lacking, then it's frustrating for a spouse to show affection, quickly get aroused because there hasn't been any sexual satisfaction and then look for sex to follow the affection (or even initiate affection with the hopes of sex).
> 
> When we were having problems my wife complained that I didn't cuddle with her. Since we weren't having sex often cuddling = arousal = wanting to have sex. Since she never wanted to have sex, I didn't want to cuddle. It can be a maddening circle.


:iagree:


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I think it is pretty well covered here but my very first reaction to the question was, How well could you handle affection without the possibility of sex. That is the good friends feeling not the intimate partners feeling. Then as I read further and thought back i decided that in my current situation due to conflicting schedules and mechanical difficulties. Affection and sex in my relationship are pretty much done at different times. Not that sex isn't affectionate, just that usually there isn't enough time to to add in a healthy amount of affection. In fact yesterday, getting enough affection to satisfy me made me late. 
MN


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

I think the OP is talking about a lack of affection unless it's used to prime the pump. 

As others as suggested, there can be a bit of a catch 22 here when sex isn't frequent. The HD partner may not be able to handle the affection without wanting more while the LD partner wants to know that affection isn't just a means to an end but meaningful unto itself.

I think it's worth having an open conversation with your spouse about this. If the HD partner isn't the affectionate type, but wants sex, then there may be an issue. But if they are avoiding affection because it leaves them wanting more, that's different. Most people wouldn't put up with A but there's hope for B.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

SurpriseMyself said:


> I think the OP is talking about a lack of affection unless it's used to prime the pump.


You are correct. There are many spouses, the majority men, who will only give affection to their spouse solely to get sex. They will deny it of course, stating that their overtures of affection just happen to coincide with their overtures for sex.

Makes you wonder if this MIGHT be a factor in a significant number of sexless marriages.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

My H is naturally a very affectionate man.. hands on...if I am near, it's almost like an instinct to reach for my hair, he'd sleep with my being all tangled up in him (though I can't do this unless I am dead tired)... when he leaves for work & comes home, I get a kiss, a squeeze..if we are out, he will reach for my hand, or arms around me sitting next to me... he's been this way since our teens.. 

He is a little different from many men, even when his loins were burning many times...he wanted more sex (and was even frustrated, not feeling enough desire from me).. he never slowed down on the affection.. we'd watch movies together many nights with my head on his lap, his fingers through my hair, scratching my back..yet he didn't push for sex..

When I came to realize THIS...how we missed each other in ways that shouldn't have been...I asked him WHY DID HE DO THAT, he should have went for what he wanted?!!.... he answered.. *He never wanted me to think it was "JUST ABOUT SEX" because to him, it never was.. *

Now when I became more sexual .. my affection doubled / tripled towards him..I went a little overboard, couldn't keep my hands off AND I let him know I wanted the sex too, nothing subtle about it...

Somehow I think a woman can get away with that many times.. but a man never could !!


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

after being turned away time and again for affection because lets face it after a hot sexy kiss most guys are standing at attention. even holding hands and feeling the soft touch of a woman can lead to an erection. 

so after many times of being aroused and then being told is that all you think about. you must be a sex fiend! I quit trying to be affectionate and then after kids came along she wouldn't want to kiss in front of them or be playful like a husband and wife should be.

then it dwindled to just trying or giving affection when the tension was so high I would eat a dog turd to get some sex. 

Its a two way street in a perfect marriage the husband would give small amount of affection through out the day and the wife would actually initate sex or at least show desire for her husband as much .

but pride and hurt feeling often get in the way and then poor communication caps it off and the bus goes round and round!


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

My H is only affectionate immediately before, during, and immediately after sex. His affection seems very genuine and sweet at those times, so it is not a ploy to get sex. Maybe it is more like appreciation rather than affection, and he expresses at those times that he feels lucky. He does say he thinks I'm beautiful, but only during sex.

He was LD throughout most of our marriage, but medium drive now that he is on T therapy. I'm HD so I'm very grateful and feel lucky for that progress, but the lack of affection is still an issue. He was affectionate during the early dating period but not since. He knows how I feel, we've had talks that resulted in little change, and he says that's not who he is. He knows about love languages because I've described the concept to him, but would not read a book such as His Needs Her Needs because it would make him feel like I was trying to change him or that he is supposed to pretend to be a certain way. He just cannot easily get into the mindset of acting that way (being physically or verbally affectionate) unless it is nighttime and we are in bed. I don't think he is afraid to touch me because I'll expect sex, I think he just has no urge to during the day.

He likes small infrequent acts of affection from me such as if I rub his shoulder but does not like to cuddle or hold hands except maybe in bed once in a while.

Most days I get about 20 seconds of affection since he kisses me good morning and goodnight. 

He is great with acts of service (he is always doing things to make my life easier) but that is not a love language for me, it is not what makes me feel loved even though I appreciate his thoughtfulness and effort. His acts of service are partly done because of his need to be constantly busy and productive. He never slows down until late at night, and until then when he is home he is either doing household or yard chores, gardening,woodworking, exercising, playing music, or involved in his other hobbies. He won't do date nights or schedule couple time, it would make him feel trapped. Conversation with him is fine but he doesn't say sweet things or flirt or say I Love You.

I'm struggling with how I can come to accept that I will never be able to show or receive much physical or verbal affection for the rest of my life, especially now that we are soon to be empty nesters.

I'm curious to know what other wives on TAM would think about being in a relationship like this: good sex, great dad, incredibly productive/useful, smart, funny, fit, great looking. But I think he only likes me, and doesn't feel love or romantic feelings. Except in bed twice a week, there is almost no touching, and there is no flirting or sweet words. I think I'm good enough to stay with since he doesn't want to live or grow old alone, but i don't really float his boat per se. 

And for the men here, do any of you relate to or think like my H and don't like to cuddle or say I love you or other sweet things, or flirt with your wife except when in bed? I don't know if I should conclude he is staying with me out of obligation or convenience or not wanting to be alone mostly.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

If there was mutually satisfying sex, then affection wouldn't always have to lead to sex.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

Kari said:


> And for the men here, do any of you relate to my H and don't like to cuddle or say I love you or other sweet things, or flirt with your wife except when in bed? I don't know if I should conclude he is staying with me out of obligation or convenience mostly.


Yes, I do. I used to be very uncomfortable with cuddling, flirting, holding hands, etc. Not sure why, but I was. The fact that we were in a sexless marriage just compounded it even further and it was a no go for me.

After "the talk" my wife told me how important it was to her. I told her how important sex was to me (Simplified version)

I be came more affectionate and she became _more affectionate_ 

After a while, I really became quite accustomed to affection outside the bedroom and rather like it now.


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## MrHappyHat (Oct 24, 2012)

chaos said:


> You are correct. There are many spouses, the majority men, who will only give affection to their spouse solely to get sex. They will deny it of course, stating that their overtures of affection just happen to coincide with their overtures for sex.
> 
> Makes you wonder if this MIGHT be a factor in a significant number of sexless marriages.


It is definitely a factor.

I generally only show my wife affection leading up to sex. Why? Because she's rejected my attempts to be affectionate in other situations, so consistently, and on every level, that I've given up. It's a big ole "Why bother?" situation. She's "won" that battle.

So now my kids get all of my hugs and cuddles.


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## notmarriedyet (Nov 10, 2012)

My SO is super super affectionate - I am the female, he's affectionate constantly - rarely ever leads to sex.
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only woman on the planet in this situation.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Trickster said:


> If there was mutually satisfying sex, then affection wouldn't always have to lead to sex.


This. We are a super affectionate couple, both of us are very kissy and cuddly. We cannot be near each other and not have a big hug. We kiss passionately every day, many times. Each day starts and ends with a kiss and cuddle, we say ILY many many times a day to each other. There is always a shoulder rub, a butt squeeze, always some type of touching and affection. 

We have a rocking sex life so no, affection does not always lead to sex or we would be having sex all day, everyday lol.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Every time I touch my wife, my body wants sex, even if I hadn't actually thought of it until I touched her.

Obviously, we don't always do it. Well, the manager at Tesco wouldn't like it.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Holland said:


> This. We are a super affectionate couple, both of us are very kissy and cuddly. We cannot be near each other and not have a big hug. We kiss passionately every day, many times. Each day starts and ends with a kiss and cuddle, we say ILY many many times a day to each other. There is always a shoulder rub, a butt squeeze, always some type of touching and affection.
> 
> We have a rocking sex life so no, affection does not always lead to sex or we would be having sex all day, everyday lol.


Sure... rub it in why don't you!


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

notmarriedyet said:


> My SO is super super affectionate - I am the female, he's affectionate constantly - rarely ever leads to sex.
> Sometimes I feel like I'm the only woman on the planet in this situation.


I am sure his needs must be filled by you..


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

MrHappyHat said:


> It is definitely a factor.
> 
> I generally only show my wife affection leading up to sex. Why? Because she's rejected my attempts to be affectionate in other situations, so consistently, and on every level, that I've given up. It's a big ole "Why bother?" situation. She's "won" that battle.
> 
> So now my kids get all of my hugs and cuddles.


Interesting. Could it be that she perceived your attempts to be affectionate in non sex situations, as insincere and only done because you wanted sex?


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

notmarriedyet said:


> My SO is super super affectionate - I am the female, he's affectionate constantly - rarely ever leads to sex.
> Sometimes I feel like I'm the only woman on the planet in this situation.


Maybe not, check this out *Couples report gender differences in relationship, sexual satisfaction over time*.


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## notmarriedyet (Nov 10, 2012)

*Re: Re: Affection solely as a prelude to sex?*



Trickster said:


> I am sure his needs must be filled by you..


No, that's not the case. His needs are met by himself - if you catch my drift. I just don't think he's attracted to me in 'that' way .. we've only been together 3 years, but our lives are so super intertwined.

I've been thinking about leaving for over a year and I just sit here. I'm 35 years old and not getting younger. I wont have what I got forever. ....

Guess that's way off topic, sorry.


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

notmarriedyet said:


> No, that's not the case. His needs are met by himself - if you catch my drift. I just don't think he's attracted to me in 'that' way .. we've only been together 3 years, but our lives are so super intertwined.
> 
> *I've been thinking about leaving for over a year and I just sit here.* I'm 35 years old and not getting younger. I wont have what I got forever. ....
> 
> Guess that's way off topic, sorry.


Yeah, it may indeed be ''way off topic'' but no need to apologize...

Your 'issue' is real and serious...and my gut is that you're reading your situation TOTALLY ACCURATELY

(I'm sorry if it's not a 'happy read' for you----just know that all Self-Honesty...is the root of all True Happiness)

There is no happiness if you're merely lying to yourself

You don't seem to be doing that...that's good.

And it quite literally 'warms my heart'

(thus---this strange and off- 'thread-topic' reply to your post)

Anyway, your relationship and its unique dynamics merit its own thread...a REALLY BRUTALLY and DEEPLY SELF-HONEST thread

When you're ready----you should create that thread...

Good Luck!!


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

notmarriedyet said:


> *I've been thinking about leaving for over a year* and I just sit here. I'm 35 years old and not getting younger. I wont have what I got forever. ....


*Be explicit in letting him know this*. You owe this to the two of you. If the roles were reversed wouldn't you want him to have the decency to let you know this and to give you a chance to resolve it?


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

notmarriedyet said:


> No, that's not the case. His needs are met by himself - if you catch my drift. I just don't think he's attracted to me in 'that' way .. we've only been together 3 years, but our lives are so super intertwined.
> 
> I've been thinking about leaving for over a year and I just sit here. I'm 35 years old and not getting younger. I wont have what I got forever. ....
> 
> Guess that's way off topic, sorry.


Has he always been affectionate without the desire for sex?

What's in it for him?


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## notmarriedyet (Nov 10, 2012)

*Re: Re: Affection solely as a prelude to sex?*



chaos said:


> *Be explicit in letting him know this*. You owe this to the two of you. If the roles were reversed wouldn't you want him to have the decency to let you know this and to give you a chance to resolve it?


He knows this and has known it for a good long while. I've been VERY explicit - even using the same words here, I've explained exactly as I have here. 
He denies not being attracted to me, he says he absolutely is. 
He does not show it.

He can be affectionate, loving, all of yhe things an LD woman would absolutely kill for. Flowers, unexpected gifts, you name it. He's great at things like that. 

But there is zero interest in sexual intercourse, I always used tolove telling him how sexy I think he is - etc. I never received any such comments back.

And to answer Trickster - I have no idea what's in it for him. None. And yes - our sexual relationship has been like this from the very beginning. 

Since my needs have gone unmet and ignored - I've begun reciprocating on Dec 23. I started sleeping on the couch and moved my toiletries to the guest bathroom. I only enter our room to access my clothes. 

No sexual connection = why should we share a bed? It hurts me.

He asked why last night finally, I just replied, because I want to sleep on the couch. He just said - ok.

He seems happy with it in my opinion. So I suppose this is the beginning of the 'real' end..

Sorry for the thread hijacking. 

I would start my own thread but I've done it before and ignored advice. Just hoping I can help someone less stubborn than myself.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Kari said:


> Most days I get about 20 seconds of affection since he kisses me good morning and goodnight.
> 
> He is great with acts of service (he is always doing things to make my life easier) but that is not a love language for me, it is not what makes me feel loved even though I appreciate his thoughtfulness and effort. His acts of service are partly done because of his need to be constantly busy and productive. He never slows down until late at night, and until then when he is home he is either doing household or yard chores, gardening,woodworking, exercising, playing music, or involved in his other hobbies. He won't do date nights or schedule couple time, it would make him feel trapped. Conversation with him is fine but he doesn't say sweet things or flirt or say I Love You.
> 
> ...


I am going to tell you.. I don't think it means he is not in love with you or staying out of obligation.. some men are WIRED this way.. 

I did a post on my Love Languages thread near the end about a couple that are both HIGH in Acts of service and GIFTS.. their marriage has been pretty smooth... though I've had some deeper conversations with her since that post.. to learn when it comes to conflict he always gets his way... she will do some "silent treatment " on him till she cools down.. but recognizes his good.. * I do feel it's a lot harder road to remain with someone where your Love languages are at opposite ends, it takes WORK for both*, reminding ourselves that the other still loves -even if we may not feel it...it's pushing down our natural desires and CHOOSING TO LOVE ...and do.. 

Just so much easier when a couple is naturally matched in these things.. 

That post...



> *Simplyamorous said:* Relaying a story about an older couple I personally know..., I've sat & ate lunch with them a # of times, been in & out of their house, witnessed their marriage in action, I do a job for them so I have gotten to know them over the past year very nicely .... ...that just illustrates how easily these love languages flow within a marriage ... when they are in sync with each other...
> 
> Now, she is an excellent Cook , I enjoy getting recipes from her, so I asked her one day "How often does your husband compliment your cooking? ".... she says immediately "Never", she wasn't upset or anything....then goes on to tell me something I would have a hard time believing...
> 
> ...














> *NotmarriedYet said*: But there is zero interest in sexual intercourse, I always used tolove telling him how sexy I think he is - etc. *I never received any such comments back*.
> 
> And to answer Trickster - I have no idea what's in it for him. None. And yes - *our sexual relationship has been like this from the very beginning.
> 
> Since my needs have gone unmet and ignored...*


NOTMARRIEDYET... please leave this man.. you will never be fulfilled in a relationship like this ..... life is too short...put yourself out there and look for one who loves and finds enjoyment in what you do as well.


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