# My Wife and My Mother - Tag Team



## Whatsgoinon (Oct 28, 2021)

Ive recently discovered that my wife has been turning to my mother for advice when arguments arise in our relationship. In some cases, my mother is the first to know when there is an issue and myself second. My mother has referred to my wife as "the daughter she never had"....there are only sons/brothers in my immediate family. 
I feel this is a serious breach of boundaries and have asked them to stop but it hasn't. 
The speak every day on the phone and lunch/meet regularly. It looks like my mother is giving my wife ways of getting around issues with ways to pacify arguments rather than actually facing things face on.
They are adamant that this is normal and I am overreacting but it makes me feel so uneasy. Its like being my wife and mother are teaming up in order to keep things sweet for their own benefit. 
Am I making too much of this and its normal or is this a boundary broken?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It's icky. Too much 'family'. Must be starting to feel as though you are married to a sibling. It's great that they get along but the teaming up has to stop. She is your mother and she is supposed to have your back - not stab you in it when you're not looking. Your wife needs to come to you and the two of you work out your problems without input from family.

Your wife is quite the little manipulator.


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## Whatsgoinon (Oct 28, 2021)

If there is a resultant fallout from their collaboration, my mother will always side with my wife. 
There are two of them in this as manipulators it seems. My mother "adopted" my wife early on in our relationship and has molded her somewhat. It was at our wedding that she announced she was the daughter she never had. 
They also involve my siblings it seems in terms of moving things in the direction they want to go when issues arise.
Right now I feel like the outsider in my own family


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Having your mother & your wife be close is a blessing. Yes, your wife should be better about keeping her own counsel & not discussing marital problems with your mom & your mom should be more circumspect in offering her input. But your mom knows you well & she knows your dad; you probably have some of his tendencies. 

I joke all the time that my husband is a carbon copy, practically a clone of his father so I was always grateful for insights from his mom & his step mom (who has been with his dad longer than his mom). I remember one of the best pieces of advice I got from them was never ask open ended Qs about practical stuff; always make it multiple choice. Example: don't ask What would you like for dinner? Instead ask Would you like chicken or beef tonight?

There are lines & mom should be your defender. Early on in my marriage, I think it was while we were still engaged, my MIL cautioned me not to come crying to her with every little thing. The woman who used to be married to DH"s brother was always calling the family to complain about him. My MIL point blank told me that she would always take her son's side, which is fine. Your mom needs to be more of your champion but cut her a break & let her have her "daughter". She lived in the boys' clubhouse her whole life.


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## Whatsgoinon (Oct 28, 2021)

D0nnivain said:


> Having your mother & your wife be close is a blessing. Yes, your wife should be better about keeping her own counsel & not discussing marital problems with your mom & your mom should be more circumspect in offering her input. But your mom knows you well & she knows your dad; you probably have some of his tendencies.
> 
> I joke all the time that my husband is a carbon copy, practically a clone of his father so I was always grateful for insights from his mom & his step mom (who has been with his dad longer than his mom). I remember one of the best pieces of advice I got from them was never ask open ended Qs about practical stuff; always make it multiple choice. Example: don't ask What would you like for dinner? Instead ask Would you like chicken or beef tonight?


My parents are separated, my father was an abusive parent and husband. The advice my mother provides is based on her experiences, not on my own personality and situation. The phrase "you are just like your father" in most cases is a good thing, in this case....it isnt.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

What your mother is doing is called “divide and rule” and it’s your mother who is mostly to blame in this situation. She has inserted herself into your marriage and causing resentment to build between you and your wife. 
Marriage is a partnership between two people, it’s basically both of you against the world. You probably don’t know the half of what your mother and wife talk about and the subtle but cunning way your mother is manipulating your wife and marriage. 
I honestly believe that if this behavior continues this marriage will fail. You can’t be at odds with the two most important women in your life.
And I would ask anyone else that advises you differently to consider what their opinion would be if it was her own mother that she was telling everything to.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

It's a really lovely thing when a woman gets on well with their MIL, it's so often the opposite. However, I don't think a married person should discuss personal details about the marriage with any other family member.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

This sounds like a big problem to me, but it is one that turns on small details. Your W talking to your M isn't a bad thing, it is that they are ganging up on you. So I think MC is best suited to get to the detailed level you need for W to see the problem and what is/isn't kosher.

It is still ok to discuss it here, just saying I think you probably need to do the other thing.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I would approach this through your wife. She took vows with you and is the one risking more than your mother with this behavior.

Asking a parent or in law for advice isn't bad at all sometimes.

What your wife and mother have done, however, is to include your mother in the marriage bed so to speak and subsequently eliminate your position as your wife's most intimate partner.

You need to establish healthy boundaries with your wife which immediately includes you excluding your mother from the talks.

Your wife made a pact with you and needs reminded about it and to honor it unless she wants to lose it.

Having a loving relationship with in laws is wonderful. It's also easy to blur healthy lines which I believe is happening.


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## Whatsgoinon (Oct 28, 2021)

I have broached the subject many times and I am told that I am happy for them to be close when its going well for me but when there is an issue, it doesn't suit me. I don't want my mother, who I believe is in no place to be offering any marriage advice, offering it to my own Wife. I believe that as soon as as issue is raised, she immediately sees me as my Father and her advice is based on that. Its the same advice that led to a lifetime of torture for herself and her own kids. The victim mentality is very strong with my mother and while she certainly is a victim, its how you recover and rebuild your life that is important. My wife now has that same mentality and Ive no doubt its come from my mother.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

You need to nip this in the bud quickly.
I'd say that it is time for you and Mom to sit down and have a convo.
Tell Mom that while you think that it is nice that her and your wife have a good relationship, that she needs to stay in her lane.
You need to set the boundaries, make sure she knows where the lines in the road are, and enforce them.
Tell her that if she doesn't, that she will be going on a crash diet and be losing (insert your weight) pounds in the way of a son.
Convo #2 needs to be with your wife.
Tell her that your relationship is between the two of you, and that it is not the business of either parental unit.
Again, set the boundaries and enforce them. Tell her either it stops, or she will be talking to her next MIL about her second husband.
Mrs. Tdbo pulled similar stuff with her Mother after we were married, trash talking me to her Mother after we had an argument.
Even after she recanted all of it to her Mother later, the damage was done.
It took years before she started to understand the damage she caused between her Mother and myself. We are civil to each other, that's about it.


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## Yoni (Feb 7, 2021)

My husband always run to my mom when we had fight. That's not cool. I know...


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Dude: you are seeing right in front of you your marriage going to the drain. Pretty soon they both will feel so empowered as to you not longer being relevant if it isn't already so.
You must be willing to lose the marriage if you want to solve the problem, this is a "must". Remember: you must be willing to lose the marriage, and here is why:
Your wife and your mother have little or no respect for you.
When someone has not respect for you, then you are less in their eyes. Consequently, what you say, what you do has little or no bearing to them.

This was something the crept little by little as your relationship with your wife developed. You saw it earlier but did little or not sufficient enough and with confidence to stop. Now you are at the stage where you must be strong and concise.

to your mother: Mother. I respect you as my mother, but if you continue to get involved in my marriage you will not be my mother anymore but an enemy of my marriage. If it fails, i will consider you directly responsible for it. As it is I realize now that you have betrayed me. You have taken the side of another person over that of your own flesh and blood, and for this I'm already considering you as the enemy.

To your wife: wife, I am supposed to be your partner. The one to whom you come to when there's a problem to solve. You are married to me not to my mother, but it has become that my mother is your partner now. You and her have become an item against me for all thing that is our marriage. Although by now as my wife I shouldn't be asking you to choose, I'm asking you right this moment to choose me or her. if her then this marriage is over. pack your **** and go live with her as your new partner.

Dude, you must have the courage, the balls, the self respect and dignity to have this confrontation for once and for all. If you continue with the nagging that leads to nothing because there are not consequences for both of them, then my advice to you is to shut up and put up, because this is the rest of your life now. Otherwise, proceed with firm conviction that what your are doing is the right thing for you. Screw their feelings in the matter, specially your wife. You can get another wife at any time.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Whatsgoinon said:


> I believe that as soon as as issue is raised, she immediately sees me as my Father and her advice is based on that.


Lucky you, you get the punishment for the behavior of your dad. You might remind mom which of you chose him to be your father.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

SpinyNorman said:


> Lucky you, you get the punishment for the behavior of your dad. You might remind mom which of you chose him to be your father.


Oh. There you go using logic....😏


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## Whatsgoinon (Oct 28, 2021)

The confrontations have been had, they dont want to listen. Due to the childhood trauma, I am suffering from Depression and Anxiety. I barely see my father as I cannot stand his presence but I have a huge resentment towards my mother over it all. She completely dismisses that period in our lives and does not want to see the impact it has had on her children.

My marriage is all but over. I have a child who I love with everything in my heart but I feel in their presence I cannot give everything to being a parent. Its like a dark cloud hanging over me. When its just me and my kid, the world seems right.
I was a regular counseling attendee and am taking medication and are scheduled to return to counseling again very shortly.

I think I was always blinkered by the trauma, not able to think or act for myself but I can see clearly now what has been going on all this time. I am not easy to deal with at times, I can admit that. I am not making excuses but giving reasons as I know I am a great father and a good person. Everytime I see my wife, I see my mother now and it all comes flooding back.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Actions my friend, actions. Don't say a word, just do. Have her served with divorce papers and that's that. No need for considerations.
Next. Cut your mother out your your life. She's your enemy. With your wife communications should be done extrictly through texts, and only about co-parenting related issues. Anything else through your solicitors office.
Do the 180. And very importantly: protect yourself at all cost. Keep a VAR with you at all times She's near you. You must avoid a false charge of domestic abuse that many vindictive women do.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Sounds like a lot more is going on with you than this. 
Hopefully the counseling will help.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Whatsgoinon said:


> Ive recently discovered that my wife has been turning to my mother for advice when arguments arise in our relationship. In some cases, my mother is the first to know when there is an issue and myself second. My mother has referred to my wife as "the daughter she never had"....there are only sons/brothers in my immediate family.
> I feel this is a serious breach of boundaries and have asked them to stop but it hasn't.
> The speak every day on the phone and lunch/meet regularly. It looks like my mother is giving my wife ways of getting around issues with ways to pacify arguments rather than actually facing things face on.
> They are adamant that this is normal and I am overreacting but it makes me feel so uneasy. Its like being my wife and mother are teaming up in order to keep things sweet for their own benefit.
> Am I making too much of this and its normal or is this a boundary broken?


Uh, I would say mother should be used as a last resort, and she should come to you to discuss first. Do you have a good relationship with your mother? If so, it makes an iota more sense than if you don't.

Prior to this starting, had you two been able to communicate (your wife and you) and resolve problems that way or could this be she was getting nowhere with that and had to find help?


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Uh, I would say mother should be used as a last resort, and she should come to you to discuss first. Do you have a good relationship with your mother? If so, it makes an iota more sense than if you don't.
> 
> Prior to this starting, had you two been able to communicate (your wife and you) and resolve problems that way or could this be she was getting nowhere with that and had to find help?


Water under the bridge. 



Whatsgoinon said:


> The confrontations have been had, they dont want to listen. Due to the childhood trauma, I am suffering from Depression and Anxiety. I barely see my father as I cannot stand his presence but* I have a huge resentment towards my mother over it all.* She completely dismisses that period in our lives and does not want to see the impact it has had on her children.
> 
> *My marriage is all but over.*


The mother is actually his enemy. The wife doesn't give a **** about him.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Whatsgoinon said:


> The confrontations have been had, they dont want to listen. Due to the childhood trauma, I am suffering from Depression and Anxiety. I barely see my father as I cannot stand his presence but I have a huge resentment towards my mother over it all. She completely dismisses that period in our lives and does not want to see the impact it has had on her children.
> 
> My marriage is all but over. I have a child who I love with everything in my heart but I feel in their presence I cannot give everything to being a parent. Its like a dark cloud hanging over me. When its just me and my kid, the world seems right.
> I was a regular counseling attendee and am taking medication and are scheduled to return to counseling again very shortly.
> ...


I think it's a good move to return to counseling.

The dynamic between your wife and mother smacks of disrespect towards you. Both are accountable for this, however I would hazard a guess that your mother is manipulating and encouraging it to occur. If your wife went to your mother following you saying it needs to stop, your mother could tell her, 'I don't want to hear about it, I'm not getting involved.' And your wife ought to cut out discussing the issues with her, and if prompted by your mother she could conversely tell her, 'I won't be sharing these things with you any more, so please don't ask, we'll sort anything out between us.'

It's hard for me to imagine being that close to my MIL. Heck, I don't even speak with my own mother daily. Every couple of weeks, usually. And anything that arises between Batman and I gets sorted between us. From that perspective, I don't view their relationship as typical at all. And the fact it's causing issues between you and your wife, and they're both discounting what you are saying, it's not cool. Not cool at all.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Whatsgoinon said:


> I have broached the subject many times and I am told that I am happy for them to be close when its going well for me but when there is an issue, it doesn't suit me.


I perceive this as total BS.

They are creating an issue by not keeping respectful boundaries. I feel all bristled on your behalf with this. All the best with the counseling.


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## Whatsgoinon (Oct 28, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Uh, I would say mother should be used as a last resort, and she should come to you to discuss first. Do you have a good relationship with your mother? If so, it makes an iota more sense than if you don't.
> 
> Prior to this starting, had you two been able to communicate (your wife and you) and resolve problems that way or could this be she was getting nowhere with that and had to find help?


Communication was always an issue from the start of the relationship so I could understand her need to find help with the relationship, but not with my mother. I thought I had a good relationship with my mother, but recent events where my mother has been aggressive and completely dismissive of my points show she sees me as someone who should not challenge her. Since day one, it seems my mother has been directing my then girlfriend and now wife as to what to do to "keep me happy". Now she is a grandparent, she believes she is entitled to visit her grandchild when it suits her, there are no boundaries.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Whatsgoinon said:


> Now she is a grandparent, she believes she is entitled to visit her grandchild when it suits her, there are no boundaries


Boundaries are essential. 

I think you & your wife could benefit from MC to form a more united front where mom is concerned.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Whatsgoinon said:


> Communication was always an issue from the start of the relationship so I could understand her need to find help with the relationship, but not with my mother. I thought I had a good relationship with my mother, but recent events where my mother has been aggressive and completely dismissive of my points show she sees me as someone who should not challenge her. Since day one, it seems my mother has been directing my then girlfriend and now wife as to what to do to "keep me happy". Now she is a grandparent, she believes she is entitled to visit her grandchild when it suits her, there are no boundaries.


Ah ok, there it is. Grandma has new little people to be nice to, to make you feel even worse. It’s very common with these types of mothers to turn their full focus onto the grandchildren for a number of reasons. New little people she can lavish with affection to punish you. You’re the one child who has dared called her out the most? Or speaks up the most. And the one who probably suffered the worst, right?

So she’s claiming the people closest to you as hers, your wife and child. So that you will quietly go away and JUST STOP TALKING ABOUT ALL THAT ABUSE! I’m tired of being told I was a bad mother, so I’m going to be a great mother in-law and grandma.

I’ve got some advice contrary to most. Don’t leave your wife, because that’s what your mother wants. Trust me on this one.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Whatsgoinon said:


> Now she is a grandparent, she believes she is entitled to visit her grandchild when it suits her,* there are no boundaries.*


This is on you brother. It is up to you to set the boundaries and to enforce them. If you don't, your mother will encroach into your life more and more. It's your home. Don't be a doormat and let anyone, including your mother, encroach into your home, your marriage and your life.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Whatsgoinon said:


> Communication was always an issue from the start of the relationship so I could understand her need to find help with the relationship, but not with my mother. I thought I had a good relationship with my mother, but recent events where my mother has been aggressive and completely dismissive of my points show she sees me as someone who should not challenge her. Since day one, it seems my mother has been directing my then girlfriend and now wife as to what to do to "keep me happy". Now she is a grandparent, she believes she is entitled to visit her grandchild when it suits her, there are no boundaries.


Listen dude: You can try to talk and rationalize everything and anything until the cows come marching in, but you already said: 



Whatsgoinon said:


> My marriage is all but over.


If it is so, then, have you already lined up a solicitor to start divorce proceedings? Have you asked him/her how your situation looks like in the divorce? are you taking all precautions to ensure that you will not be goaded to an altercation which your wife could use against you? or are you just talking crap in the air, with no intentions to do anything other than to whine about it? Action (s) my friend is what get you results. Directives, and actions that carry the weight of repercussions is what give results, one way or another.

From what so far you have explained, your mother should be crossed out of your life until and if she ever shows any type of respect for you as an adult and as an individual. You don't own her anything to continue letting her interfere and dictate your life. You need to put a show of force against her and you wife if you are indenting to stay in the relationship. If not, then already make child custody arrangements and detach from the marriage. That's what you should be doing, but it's really up to you to do what you will do one way or another. Just remember, you will decide your future with the actions you take.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Whatsgoinon said:


> Communication was always an issue from the start of the relationship so I could understand her need to find help with the relationship, but not with my mother. I thought I had a good relationship with my mother, but recent events where my mother has been aggressive and completely dismissive of my points show she sees me as someone who should not challenge her. Since day one, it seems my mother has been directing my then girlfriend and now wife as to what to do to "keep me happy". Now she is a grandparent, she believes she is entitled to visit her grandchild when it suits her, there are no boundaries.


It's your mother, so it is solely up to you to set boundaries with her and to have a talk with her, and you need to tell her she can't just come and go as she pleases because it's an inconvenience to you and that she needs to call and then you both agree on a time. And you need to talk to her about getting the middle of your and your wife's problems. This is strictly your responsibility. Be sure she does not have a key to your house. Once you told her not to come over without an invitation, if she does anyway don't answer the door.


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## Whatsgoinon (Oct 28, 2021)

Rob_1 said:


> Listen dude: You can try to talk and rationalize everything and anything until the cows come marching in, but you already said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I have spoken to a solicitor regarding separation and what it means for us all. This might all seem like a quick trigger reaction but this nonsense is going on for as long as I can remember. I am not the person I need to be for my son around these people. The unfortunate thing is, my mother wont be crossed out of my life, separation or no separation. My wife is so enmeshed in my mothers sick world it will be impossible to remove her. She will continue to see her with my son no matter what I ask.


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## Whatsgoinon (Oct 28, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's your mother, so it is solely up to you to set boundaries with her and to have a talk with her, and you need to tell her she can't just come and go as she pleases because it's an inconvenience to you and that she needs to call and then you both agree on a time. And you need to talk to her about getting the middle of your and your wife's problems. This is strictly your responsibility. Be sure she does not have a key to your house. Once you told her not to come over without an invitation, if she does anyway don't answer the door.


A few months ago my mother called late evening just as my son was going to bed. Things were already fraught but I mentioned that it was bedtime and she could call again. I was told that she is "entitled" to see her grandchild and wouldn't be leaving. If my marriage fails, then she will continue to see my then ex and my child...there is no doubt about that. I am but a minor player in this game I believe and ill be dismissed as I'm no longer relevant.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Whatsgoinon said:


> A few months ago my mother called late evening just as my son was going to bed. Things were already fraught but I mentioned that it was bedtime and she could call again. I was told that she is "entitled" to see her grandchild and wouldn't be leaving. If my marriage fails, then she will continue to see my then ex and my child...there is no doubt about that. I am but a minor player in this game I believe and ill be dismissed as I'm no longer relevant.


You have the power to control a lot of it but you're not willing to use it. You could take a hard line with her and block her calls and not answer the door if she shows up. Obviously she's not going to listen to you, so you don't give her a chance to talk her way out of it. You have to be stronger than you're being with her and put a stop to it whether she agrees with it or not.

Grandparents don't have rights to their grandchildren unless some situation exists that goes to court because the parents are negligent or something like that.


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## Whatsgoinon (Oct 28, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You have the power to control a lot of it but you're not willing to use it. You could take a hard line with her and block her calls and not answer the door if she shows up. Obviously she's not going to listen to you, so you don't give her a chance to talk her way out of it. You have to be stronger than you're being with her and put a stop to it whether she agrees with it or not.
> 
> Grandparents don't have rights to their grandchildren unless some situation exists that goes to court because the parents are negligent or something like that.


Your points are all valid but I am not just dealing with my mother here. I also need my wife to be on the same page as myself with this.....the same wife that speaks to my mother most days, goes to visit her regularly and all in all is just short of calling her Mommy. I can keep my mother out of my home but she retains control through many other means. She knows this and is happy to battle as there is no fallout for her, only me.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Have you thought of relocating your family so that it will be too inconvenient for your mother to just drop by? I would do it even if you're going ahead with the divorce. Don't let them steal your son from you.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Whatsgoinon said:


> Yes, I have spoken to a solicitor regarding separation and what it means for us all. This might all seem like a quick trigger reaction but this nonsense is going on for as long as I can remember. I am not the person I need to be for my son around these people. The unfortunate thing is, my mother wont be crossed out of my life, separation or no separation. My wife is so enmeshed in my mothers sick world it will be impossible to remove her. She will continue to see her with my son no matter what I ask.


Well, You can be as pathetically weak as a man can be or you can be strong and intimidating as you need to be if necessary, but lamenting and accepting things as matter of facts won't do anything for you. If you wife sees your mother when is her time with the child, there's nothing you can do about it, unless you can legally make it so in your country. Talk to your solicitor about it. But it seems to me that you haven't cut ties with your mother, why" does she has that power over you also? no wonder why you are in the situation you are.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Get your wife into marriage counseling over this issue.


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## Angel wings (Oct 31, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> It's icky. Too much 'family'. Must be starting to feel as though you are married to a sibling. It's great that they get along but the teaming up has to stop. She is your mother and she is supposed to have your back - not stab you in it when you're not looking. Your wife needs to come to you and the two of you work out your problems without input from family.
> 
> Your wife is quite the little manipulator.


Your wife is wrong to make your mum the bad one. She should approach you if a disagreement not to your mum. She playing mind games with you. Speak to your mother and tell her with respect she must back off little. Tell your wife stop what's she doing because she putting a drill between you and mum.. She just middle one in your arguments..


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Angel wings said:


> Your wife is wrong to make your mum the bad one. She should approach you if a disagreement not to your mum. She playing mind games with you. Speak to your mother and tell her with respect she must back off little. Tell your wife stop what's she doing because she putting a drill between you and mum.. She just middle one in your arguments..


and again and again. Please, read the full story before giving advice to the situation. FYI, he already had "the talk" with his wife and mother many times over. You need to understand that the mother and wife has not respect for him and would do just what they want. OP wishes, and wants do not matter to them, so basically wife and mother have become his enemies. The only advice the OP should be getting right now is how fast he can divorce his wife and kick his mother out of his life.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Whatsgoinon said:


> Yes, I have spoken to a solicitor regarding separation and what it means for us all. This might all seem like a quick trigger reaction but this nonsense is going on for as long as I can remember. I am not the person I need to be for my son around these people. The unfortunate thing is, my mother wont be crossed out of my life, separation or no separation. My wife is so enmeshed in my mothers sick world it will be impossible to remove her. She will continue to see her with my son no matter what I ask.


The divorce is about getting your W out of your life, not about getting your mother out of her life or out of your son's. Unless your mother is abusing him in some way, then you would have recourse.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> It's a really lovely thing when a woman gets on well with their MIL, it's so often the opposite. However, I don't think a married person should discuss personal details about the marriage with any other family member.


Unless it is an abusive situation.


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