# Stay for the kids?



## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

I know this is a debate that has no right answers but find myself so conflicted. 

Is it better to separate and divorce or stay together, be friendly roommates and coparent the children?

I have two girls. Do I want to set the example and have them grow up to be in marriages like mine? No. Do I want to divorce and take away their family unit? No. Do I want to lose control over their care and well being 50% of the time, opening the door to husband having a new relationship and this other woman being an influence in my daughters lives? No. Do I want to continue my marriage the way it is? No, and I'm losing hope in any possibility of repair. 

We are great parents. After 15 years I believe maybe we're not great spouses. Is it possible to stay together for the kids? But then what would divorcing the day after the youngest turned 18...what damage would that do?

It's no win.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You do your children no favors staying in a miserable marriage "for them".


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

My parents had a similar "marriage." Mom didn't believe in divorce, whatever that means. Dad wasn't really emotionally invested in anything other than his own interests. Not much of a father, and not much of a husband. 

Although there were differences in my family of origin, with mom being downright nuts and dad being overly involved in work so he didn't have to be involved with his family, it was similar to what you are considering.

My parents could be cordial. But there was no actual love between them. It was more like they were resigned to stick it out for the sake of the kids.

It sucked.

By the time I was 8, I started having anxiety attacks. By the time I was 14, I just wanted my parents to split up. Eventually, they did, although they didn't divorce until I was 22. 

The issue you have is you don't think any solution is acceptable. That will keep you stuck. And you alone are the reason you are staying stuck. 

Stay with him in a friendly living arrangement if you desire. But as a kid who lived with that, I'm pretty sure your children will not feel comfortable with it. JMO.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

Thank you. This breaks my heart but I appreciate your opinions and experience. 

I am stuck. I know what I want to do but I'm stuck in knowing the destruction it will cause.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

MsStacy said:


> I am stuck. I know what I want to do but I'm stuck in knowing the destruction it will cause.


Either way, you are going to have some destruction. That is life. Nobody gets out of it unscathed.

But staying stuck is a hell of your own making. Corny as it sounds, "get busy living or get busy dying."

I suggest you give up the stuck stance. It's the way victims perpetuate their victimhood.

Your life. Your choices. Or, in this case, non-choice.


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## jay_gatsby (Jun 4, 2013)

MsStacy said:


> Thank you. This breaks my heart but I appreciate your opinions and experience.
> 
> I am stuck. I know what I want to do but I'm stuck in knowing the destruction it will cause.


The destruction is already there, it's whether you want to be actively involved with the destruction... ie, you will not change how your kids view your marriage, only how they view your misery.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Kids want happy parents. That's how simple it is.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

Prodigal said:


> I suggest you give up the stuck stance. It's the way victims perpetuate their victimhood.
> 
> Your life. Your choices. Or, in this case, non-choice.


I get that. I hate portraying myself in a victim role. I don't feel like I'm sitting in the victim chair, I just want to make sure I have done everything I can. 

If it were just my life and my Hs life it would be easier. It's the lives of my girls too.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Your girls will know you don't have a happy marriage. They will probably blame themselves. I blamed myself for my mother choosing to stay for me. And I did the same thing for my son before getting out recently after 45 years. 

It's never easy.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

MsStacy said:


> Thank you. This breaks my heart but I appreciate your opinions and experience.
> 
> I am stuck. I know what I want to do but I'm stuck in knowing the destruction it will cause.


I would star a conversation with him....

something like I feel were are disconnected so much its seems overwhelming. I love you as a father and there is no body else (although I have had fantasys about it) I just don't want to be married with no passion or effort put into our marriage I don't think its all your fault but don't know how to turn it around. I have tried to comunicate this to you and you don't seem to have a care about it. Listen if we have just grown apart and the passion is gone and neither of us wants to put the effort into rebuilding or maybe its just not possible to rebuild. so lets just be as amicable as possible and split the custody 50-50 devide our assets and still be as friendly and good parent as possible .



good luck. hope hes on board and not an evil vandictive person


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

How do you go about being friendly roommates? You're not even friendly spouses.

If you want to stay married, own it. But, don't put this off on your kids. They don't deserve to have to carry the burden of their parents' dysfunctional relationship.


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## BruisedGirl (Apr 4, 2013)

MsStacy said:


> I know this is a debate that has no right answers but find myself so conflicted.
> 
> Is it better to separate and divorce or stay together, be friendly roommates and coparent the children?
> 
> ...


I'm no relationship expert, but I'll chime in here. 

As I've stated in other threads here, there is nothing heroic about staying for the children when there is no intent on having a loving marriage again. Staying for the kids is selfish, in my opinion. I was very selfish once. 

Sure, all kids deserve to have both parents in the same home. So stay if you plan to get the help you need to make the marriage whole and loving again. If not, you'll do far more damage than you can ever imagine and you'll never be happy. 

I considered staying until the youngest was 18. At that time that would've meant staying another 10 years and the very thought of that is what brought me to the decision of divorcing. I filed 6 months later. 

Do go to counseling if you're this unsure. If nothing else maybe it will give you and your H an unbiased "this will never work and it's no one's fault" and you'll be able to split amicably. Maybe it will also provide the both of you with tools on how to tell the children, what to expect from them, how to handle their reactions, etc. 

Belive it or not, as much as you think you don't want to be with him now, divorce shakes your soul like you wouldn't believe. It's hard. It's sad. It hurts. It's emotional. You'll start to recognize things you'll miss that you can't think of now because you're consumed with misery. It is necessary at times. But that doesn't make it easy for any of the parties involved. 

My oldest took it much harder than I ever dreamed she would. It was hard. Some nights I'd lie in bed and ask myself if her hurt was worth all of this. I wondered if maybe I should just go back so she could go back to being herself. Then I talked with a wise family friend who said these words... "D15 will accept this and heal. She is not herself because she is transitioning. But, she'll never be able to transition if you go back because that life was not happy for her either. Go back, and take her future happiness away. Don't take the easy road and don't be a fool." 

I won't say you should divorce or stay. I will suggest try like hell (really try) to fix it if you're going to stay. If you can't give that to your children, then go.


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

My parents should have divorced a lot sooner. It was painful to see their pain. 

Maybe them living happier lives apart would have been better.

It's impossible to tell what their lives would have been like if they had divorced.

You only have one life. Be happy whatever you do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I think it depends on why you are unhappy. Break it down into two categories:

1. Not getting needs met: Incompatible sex drive. Wants to travel but other spouse is a home body. Different financial expectations, etc.

2. Being treated poorly: Constantly arguing, abuse, not contributing to the household, etc.

If it's case #2, then it's probably not worth staying for the kids. They are already in a stressful environment. The divorce will add a bit more, but then they'll recover. 

But if it's case #1, I think you should consider staying for the kids until they're grown. Divorce will have a significant, life-long affect on their emotional state. I think it's worth putting off your own happiness for a few years so that the kids will not be impacted as greatly. Learn to accept the lower amount of sex, frugal lifestyle, or whatever for a little while. Especially if the kids are 10-15 years old, divorce can really change a kid.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

MsStacy said:


> I know this is a debate that has no right answers but find myself so conflicted.
> 
> Is it better to separate and divorce or stay together, be friendly roommates and coparent the children?
> 
> ...


So exactly what magic happens at 18 ? I know this is a common idea among people, both M/F, in your situation, that when the kids graduate HS, then things will be easier to D.

But the truth is things are bad NOW. Your children are not getting the best of either of their parents NOW. Nothing changes at 18, or 21, or 30. They will be sad, they will have to deal with it, and they will move on.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

if the divorce is amicable and everybody is cool and the kids are still loved by both parents with no resentment then I think its better for everybody.

but if its nasty drop down drag out where either parent get draged over the cools then the kids will have lingering effects.


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## jay_gatsby (Jun 4, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> if the divorce is amicable and everybody is cool and the kids are still loved by both parents with no resentment then I think its better for everybody.
> 
> but if its nasty drop down drag out where either parent get draged over the cools then the kids will have lingering effects.


Either way, the kids will still be better off if they divorce. The first scenario is self explanatory. The second already has strife in the relationship. What ever hardships the kids endure during the divorce will be offset by the turmoil they will have if the parents stay together. Rather be "dragged over the coals" then slow cooked to death.


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

I think it depends...I'm not so much a romantic. So, I think of marriage as an ~18-25 year contract for cooperative childrearing.

If you're more like...this marriage is hostile and abusive...then kids mostly do better with divorce. You will too.

If you're more like...I'm unhappy because I'm not getting my needs met...then I'm not sure the kids do better and I'm not sure that you'll do better either. This probably depends on how bad things are. The reality is that we tend to marry people at equivalent levels of crazy - so, the next time around, we don't marry someone saner - just differently messed up. Besides, mostly, happiness is a personal thing.

If you're more like...I used to love my husband, but don't right now. I suspect very few long marriages involve unbroken love. I'd suggest just sucking it up.

But, y'know, people are different and there's lots of valid choices depending on your priorities.

--Argyle


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

MsStacy said:


> I get that. I hate portraying myself in a victim role. I don't feel like I'm sitting in the victim chair, I just want to make sure I have done everything I can.


Well, we can go 'round and 'round in circles as to whether or not you are a victim. If you don't think you are sitting in the "victim chair" that is fine.

But your mantra for months as been to do everything you can to resuscitate this marriage.

You can only do so much. 

There is a time when a separation is necessary. Stay if you want. But I suggest you dispense with the self-flagellation. 

You are spinning your wheels. Frankly, it doesn't sound like your husband wants to be married right now. A temporary remedy may very well be separation. 

And, like it or not, remaining stuck and beating yourself over the head with WHAT-IF, WHAT-IF, is self-victimization. 

JMO.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I am another who's parents stayed together "for us." I was the youngest of 4 children... When I was almost 4yo my mother put me in preschool early, so that she could go back to school. Her intent was so that she could have a means to support us when she left my dad. 

My parents fought on and off all throughout my life. My mom was a teacher, and my dad worked at a gov't job- swing shift when he could. It made it easier for him to deal with the misery. 

Although they had bouts where they would get along, they were never, ever happy. It was evident. As kids we all had our respective friends whose homes we were at more than our own. Who wants to be around that? Even when they weren't fighting, the energy was completely toxic. 

I graduated HS in June of 1998. My parent's divorce was finalized the following month. The family home was sold, and I left for college with no place to call home anymore. That was difficult to deal with, being 2800 miles from the place I had called home for 8 years.

I ended up making bad decisions including staying with a BF that cheated, and staying in an abusive marriage for 8 years. I didn't know what a healthy marriage looked like. I left that marriage by way of becoming an affair partner... Another bad choice. 

I've had a lot of counseling. I've learned a lot about myself and my relationships... And I hope some day to know what a good relationship actually feels like. But in reality, I'm not sure I would be able to recognize one if it bit me in my a$$. 

My siblings and I have had many conversations about this as adults... And we agree that in our situation, we wish they'd split up. 

They are both happily re-married now, and I like them both much better now. They are easier to be around now that they aren't living in misery. 

If reconciliation is a viable scenario... Stay. Try. If not... Walk away as much for them, as for your own happiness. You all deserve that.

Just my 2cents.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Right now I'm staying for the kids. Right now, it feels like the better thing for them. H and I are more like roommates than husband and wife, but there's very little conflict on a day-to-day basis, so it's not a hostile or awkward vibe.

There is a great deal of (fairly poor) research on divorce and children, but it's very hard to draw conclusions. Children of divorced parents seem to be more likely to have academic or relationship troubles of their own, but it's very difficult to know if that's because of the greater likelihood that they've been exposed to some kind of abuse, or if the divorce itself was the problem. Since you can't randomize troubled couples to divorce or stay together, you're always going to be mired in confounders.

For me though, I feel like my choices are between struggling on my own financially with only 50 - 75% custody of my kids, or have a roommate who pays half the bills and happens to be my kids' father, allowing me 100% custody of the kids. Maybe when they get closer to puberty I'll be able to accept less than 100% custody, but right now, no. I don't want to share them.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

OP I remember feeling the same way about sharing my son, missing moments of his life, etc. I know that feeling well. 

I can sympathize with that rationale, and having lived through it, I can also assure you it isn't as torturous as it seems.


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

I am new here and I was reading this thread because I am also asking myself the same question... stay for the kids?. In your situation, if you think its best to stay then maybe it is if there is no hostility between you two. But you still are giving up your own happiness. Why would you want to do that?

My situation is much worse. There is abuse - verbal and sometimes physical when the arguments get heated enough. The kids have witnessed it. So I have decided this week after 8 long years of being in a dysfunctional marriage to get out. I just don't have any clue how to do it. I have asked my husband to move out but he wont. Its his house too he says and the kids need him. So Im not sure what to do. I am started to talk to a therapist for advice though.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

PAGirl:

I had my stbxh legally removed from the family home on an ex parte basis. I filed the papers Tuesday evening and it was ordered Thursday. He was allowed in the house to get his things for an hour on Friday. If there is proof DV involved, you should have similar options. You should lean on community resources for help as well. 

Please feel free to PM me if you need am ear.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

In the case of abuse, kids would be better off if you divorce. If you are just "OH I'm not happy anymore" or "I found a new guy" I think it is best to stay and work on your marriage.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

OP,

It is a hard choice either way and which is best depends on the specifics of the situations and the personalities of all of those involved.

Personally I could not stay in a relationship were there was abuse or infidelity but I known couples who seem to thrive on having a "good shouting match" or who put up with their partner "playing away".

Over the years / decades the nature of a relationship will change. For some it grows deeper and more meaningful. For some the passion will say there for others they will transition for "lovers" to "friends with benefits" or even "just good friends". As long as both parties are content with the situation then there is (IMHO) no need for divorce / separation.

If the home life children have is "safe and stable" and they are shown love affection by both their parents then I see little harm in staying together even if "the spark" has left a relationship.(There can be many reasons why "the spark" goes, divergence, medical /health etc). As children grow and mature they are more able to understand and adapt to the world around them.

If a couple do divorce / separated there will be instant adverse impacts on the children.

They will most likely not see both parents every day and may feel "split" between which parent they want to be with.

The family finances will become stretched. Running two homes is more expensive than running one. Will they have to move area / school district to be able to afford a second home. Will the separated parents then be looking to date / find new partners? How will these new people fit into the family dynamic?

I do not think there is one "Right or Wrong" answer, it could just end up being a matter of choosing the "least worst" option.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

I'm grateful for everyone's opinion and experience. I really believe that if we were to separate we would be able to put our daughters first and keep it amicable. Neither of us are the "out to get you or drag it through the mud" type people. 

Separation would pretty much ruin us financially. We could not support two households nor the expenses and my daughters would lose the few extras...karate, music, etc...that they have now. Northernlights...I'm in a similar position and I'm thinking along the same lines as you. We do roommates and coparents well. 

The experiences of those that posted saying they wished their parents had divorced earlier, that's what scares me. 

H and I talked the night before last. I told him that I was in conflict over thinking of separating and divorce. I think he really heard me this time. He panicked. I could see he was scared. For years he has been the one to throw out divorce or separation as an option. I told him months ago when he brought it up that I was considering it. I told him that was the first time I planned it in my head and figured out the logistics. I have told him a few times since that I believed its what he wants and he's pushing me in that direction. I guess all these conversations fell on deaf ears. He looked as though I was telling him for the first time the other night. 

I hope he really did hear me. Maybe being scared and finally realizing I have one foot out the door will wake him up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

Crossed fingers for you.

...and there's always the...
...you get the behavior you accept thing...

People being human, you often get the behavior you accept from someone. 

Or conversely, if you don't put up with bad behavior, you often get significantly better behavior. There's a problem there with bluffing about divorce...but I've never quite worked out where the line should be.

--Argyle


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

Best off luck OP I hope you can find a solution that works for you all.


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

I agree it's no win. I have been in an unhappy marriage for too long. I am not like most couples in an unhappy marriage where they love each other but don't like each other. I don't like OR love him. 
But the fact is, kids are better off when the parents stay married even if their marital relationship is struggling or dead. 

Am I telling you to stay? I am not telling you either way. What you decide is YOUR choice. What I decide is MY choice. I do find that many people give up a lot sooner than they should. 

It is very unfortunate that over 80% of marriages are unhappy. It's not the way it should be, but it's the facts. The percentages of divorces now compared to 50 years ago is astounding. A lot of blame is that because the parents divorced the children divorce. There may be a lot of truth to that, but I doubt that is the bottom line. I believe that more marriages are unhappy now compared to then. Culturally we've changed and women want, need and expect their husband to be their friend, someone they can talk to, a man who will work on the marriage too. No, I'm not saying women are the only ones who work on the marriage. But the majority of divorces are filed by women because the wounds of a bad marriage are hard if not impossible for women to pull through.

Men want sex; and when they don't get it they get angry, feel rejected, and abused. Women want communication, to be listened to, to feel her opinions are valued, to feel like he is interested in meeting her emotional needs OUTSIDE of the bedroom. Let's face it folks, if a man can't pay attention to his woman outside the bedroom, she will (without any fault of her own) feel unloved and used. Years and years of that WILL take its toll. If it doesn't get resolved and worked out... If emotional intimacy can't be built and sustained, your physical intimacy will die. You will find yourself in a miserable, loveless, and eventually sexless marriage.

A great article can be found at:
http://ezinearticles.com/?9-Signs-Emotional-Intimacy-is-Suffering-in-a-Marriage&id=662432


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

lynst said:


> I agree it's no win. I have been in an unhappy marriage for too long. I am not like most couples in an unhappy marriage where they love each other but don't like each other. I don't like OR love him.
> But the fact is, kids are better off when the parents stay married even if their marital relationship is struggling or dead.
> 
> Am I telling you to stay? I am not telling you either way. What you decide is YOUR choice. What I decide is MY choice. I do find that many people give up a lot sooner than they should.
> ...


Be sure to ask your children when they are adults how they have felt growing up in such an environment. Of course, it will be too late by then, but go ahead and ask.


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## lynst (Aug 13, 2010)

Kids deserve to be in a home where both parents work to resolve conflict and love each other. As much as children do not deserve their parents get a divorce, neither do they deserve to be in a home where the parents can't get along, can't meet each others needs, and can't love each other. They're harmed either way! Harmed if you leave and harmed if you stay!


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

This is really not hard to answer.

Your children are best served to be raised in an intact home.

You and your husband have the power to raise them within what seems like a normal marriage and family scenrario even if you privately hate each other's guts. It's merely about what is important to you.

If you want to say you have no control over the tone of the family and marriage and therfore the situation beyond your control is toxic and harmful and unhappy, then your children are not best served in a marriage like that.

But, the question is are you in charge of your life or is life in charge of you? 

As an aside, what is wrong with your marriage?
All marriages have their problems. No husband is ideal. No wife is ideal. Most people do not think they are wrong. Most people think that if their husband / wife only did X, we'd all be alot better off. What people generally look at is is this person a good parent to my children? Is "all of our" situation better as a together situation since we are decent parents together, have a certain home set up, kids in a certain school, etc....? Given that no one has a "perfect" spouse and given that I am not a perfect spouse... All things considered should I put all my eggs in this basket? Shouldn't I just go "all in" on this life that I have set up? Shouldn't I try to be the best spouse I can be, fix what I can control, and see where it leads?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

There are financial implications in play beyond what "kids want". Or what spouses want. Living with a non optimal  spouse could be made more palatable if there's a wad of money to pay for a good college....

If the kids are not the academic types by all means ignore the suggestion but if they are, and have aspirations and abilities beyond FAFSA and your friendly state college it is something worth considering.


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## yours4ever (Mar 14, 2013)

If you stay, do whatever it takes to repair the relationship.
Read on how to be happy, what love and marriage is really about, and also read a lot on communication skills such as conflict resolution, forgiveness and and persuasion/seduction. 


Before you divorce, know that ALL MEN have issues. ALL men will disappoint you. And that life WILL throw you the same set of problems no matter where you run, until you learn to deal with it? They are humans.
Stop changing him, peace is seeing things as they are. Count your blessings.


I will only get a divorce if my husband is physically hurting me, cheats, abusing the kids or murders.




Please read chapter 12, loving the unlovely, from the the 5 love languages(the secret to love that lasts) by Gary Chapman.


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## My_2nd_Rodeo (Nov 20, 2012)

Your title answers the question... did you marry the kids? Are you divorcing the kids? (Neither)

Do you think they'll appreciate the fraud of their parents marriage, when they find out as adults?

It will only make them cynical.


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## yours4ever (Mar 14, 2013)

many marriages last, there will be up and down.. There are times you feel trap and super hurt, like you're best being single..
but 

Marriage is about giving your best with little expectation. It is a training ground for YOU to learn patience, finding happiness on your own, and to learn from your spouse.

All marriages have problems and conflicts, but there is ease after hardship. It is a sad that thing when people expect divorce even before marrying... Please reread my previous post.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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