# Breaking more than fixing



## lonesomegra

During our first MC session the Counselor asked my wife who is 38 to consider contraceptives. My wife took them once prior to marriage and hated the feeling it gave her. The Counselor then suggested to my wife that she might be finished with having children and there is more risk of a problem pregnancy or child with disability if a woman has children later in life. I was stunned that my wife sided with this view and is considering contraception. I do not consider pre forty a to be in a 'danger zone' for a woman to give birth or have unhealthy children. 

This subject had never come up in conversation before with my wife and I feel that I am being put on the defensive by this Counselor. Straight away this is breaking rather than fixing. This to me is the equivalent of castration. I am going to fight this suggestion with every bone in my body and the Counselor will have some battle on her hands at the next session. I pointed out at the time that it goes against all my beliefs. 

What do you suggest I do to fight this? I want more children and would prefer for nature to take its course on my wife's body rather that artificially end things this way. That I can accept. Otherwise I will either need HUGE concessions from my wife to agree to this - something that I think won't happen - or I think our marriage is broken and I will need to consider leaving.


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## Enchantment

lonesomegra said:


> I do not consider pre forty a to be in a 'danger zone' for a woman to give birth or have unhealthy children.


I think that research has established that not only does fertility start to decline in the mid-thirties for a woman, but that over the age of 35 a woman is at greater risk during pregnancy, and there's a greater chance of genetic abnormalities in the baby. 

Pregnancy After Age 35

My H and I did have an unplanned pregnancy at the age of 39 (delivered at 40). It was extremely difficult physically and I had gestational diabetes and polyhydramnios, but thankfully our little guy was healthy - it was just me that wasn't so much so.

However, many women are capable of having an event-free pregnancy after 35, but it pays to be aware of the extra risk because extra vigilance may be necessary.



lonesomegra said:


> I pointed out at the time that it goes against all my beliefs.


Do you and your wife share the same belief? You stated that it goes against your beliefs, but maybe it should be explored what hers are, and perhaps what fears she may have.

After my last pregnancy, I was extra fearful of pregnancy again, and we did eventually go through sterilization (both of us).



lonesomegra said:


> What do you suggest I do to fight this? I want more children and would prefer for nature to take its course on my wife's body rather that artificially end things this way.


Does your wife want more children as well? Since she would be the one whose body will bear the brunt of the work of a pregnancy, she should be on board with the idea as well.

If she is not, then perhaps that is the disconnect that needs to be discussed in your marital counseling. Instead of getting defensive about it, simply go in with a neutral position. The idea is to be able to discuss things, even uncomfortable things, even things we don't personally agree with. It may not change our point of view one bit, but it may open up our eyes about our spouse's point of view and create a deeper understanding of the trials and tribulations they may be going through as well. And that isn't a bad thing. 

Best wishes.


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## Mavash.

Two thoughts on this. One I can't take any hormones - they mess up my mood. Two I had my last baby at 39 without incident and have many friends who have had healthy babies up to about 42. 

Does your wife even want to have a baby at her age?


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## lonesomegra

The subject of more children has never been discussed between my wife and I. My wife up to now shared my beliefs or so I thought but now I'm not so sure. One of the reasons we are in MC is because there is lack of communication. I well might find out that we are poles apart in many ways. I think it will take my wife a while to warm up and really be comfortable in MC and I don't know what I will discover if she does so. It might actually work out for the best! 

I suppose I do have to learn in these sessions but I spent 4 hours awake one night thinking about this and what I wrote reflects my mood at the time. Since the session my wife has made no effort to discuss this topic nor take the Counselor's advice to talk more to me. I am affording her every opportunity to talk but she is staying silent up to now. We will be back at MC in 5 days time so she still might surprise me between now and then.

Enchantment I will try your suggestion of a neutral stance at the next session and see what comes of it but I might need to tape my mouth shut to stop me from blurting silly things out!


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## Enchantment

lonesomegra said:


> The subject of more children has never been discussed between my wife and I. My wife up to now shared my beliefs or so I thought but now I'm not so sure. One of the reasons we are in MC is because there is lack of communication. I well might find out that we are poles apart in many ways. I think it will take my wife a while to warm up and really be comfortable in MC and I don't know what I will discover if she does so. It might actually work out for the best!
> 
> I suppose I do have to learn in these sessions but I spent 4 hours awake one night thinking about this and what I wrote reflects my mood at the time. Since the session my wife has made no effort to discuss this topic nor take the Counselor's advice to talk more to me. I am affording her every opportunity to talk but she is staying silent up to now. We will be back at MC in 5 days time so she still might surprise me between now and then.
> 
> Enchantment I will try your suggestion of a neutral stance at the next session and see what comes of it but I might need to tape my mouth shut to stop me from blurting silly things out!


:smthumbup:
Good for you, lonesome, for being willing to give it a go.

From one of your other threads about your wife's sexual abuse while young - well, she's likely got a very well-developed coping mechanism in place that may involve staying silent. She's also been able to practice and hone that skill for a long time. So, it may be that it will take some time (and patience!) for her to unlearn that, and she'll need a lot of support from you and need to feel like she's in a good place where there's trust and respect in order to open up.

As hard as it is to cultivate patience, look at it like she is a spool of thread that has unwound - and imagine and appreciate the effort on how long it takes to rewind that spool and get it back in order, especially if the thread is a tangled mess.

And, if after giving this counselor a go for awhile, you don't feel like they are really working out, then don't give up. Find another counselor - not all of them work in the same manner or will be the right fit for you and your wife. Just don't give up! 

Best wishes.


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## lonesomegra

During our MC this week the subject of contraception was briefly touched upon. Rather than hash this issue out in front of the Counselor we have agreed to discuss this at home during the next 6 days or so. Due to my wife's reluctance to open up and talk at home about any of the previous matters discussed in MC I have been advised to encourage my wife to talk more about our issues and problems. Because I come across as more controlling and my wife as passive I will need to tread a very thin line when this is discussed. Even though I will not go down this path I feel my wife is usually most honest when she gets angry. 

One factor my wife did bring up is that even if she did take contraceptives that she felt it wouldn't solve anything. In other words in addition to not wanting more children she doesn't feel that she wants sex with me as I don't make her feel safe.

The Counselor recognised a need to bring my wife in for Individual Counseling and this will be in six days time. Just like my efforts to persuade wife to go to MC it took a huge effort for the Counselor to get her to agree to an IC session. It nearly brought me to tears to see my wife say she thought she was worthless and any effort to increase her assertiveness 'would be a waste of time.' 

In the meantime I am facing another sexless week to allow my wife space.


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## lonesomegra

As a follow up to what I posted earlier I had a heart to heart with my wife tonight. Both of us ended up in tears. I really don't know how I can fix this marriage. My wife actually said that the hurt I had caused her in our marriage and how I pressured her for sex was worse than what her Grandfather had done to her as a child! It took a lot for me not to vomit when she said this.
My wife said that by me demanding my rights as a husband I had hurt her to the point that at one stage she had considered suicide. This particular point would have been around 2 years ago.

I allowed my wife time to speak her mind and her words really wounded me but at the end I thanked her for being so brave and honest to express her emotions. I told my wife that I hoped that she could bring these type of expressions in with her when in counseling next week. 

By the end of the conversation she was afraid of my reaction 'that I might go out and walk into the river, because I had said I felt like doing this before.' I reassured her that I would not do this. Although we kissed after this I could not let her hug me tightly. I am so wound up from not having sex that I told her I was afraid how I would react physically towards her if we hugged. 

I had to stop short of suggesting that if we could not reconnect through sex then we might need to separate or seek a divorce. I instead said that options would need to be explored and that if I said anymore I would hurt her too deeply. This is really hurting me.


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## accept

I find it surprising you want to bring kids into this world when you have problems. Do you think that your wife having a child will cure her. It wont. You seem to have so many other problems apart from sex and sex is not what is causing them so they should be the first things you go to an MC to settle.


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## Enchantment

lonesomegra said:


> As a follow up to what I posted earlier I had a heart to heart with my wife tonight. Both of us ended up in tears. I really don't know how I can fix this marriage. My wife actually said that the hurt I had caused her in our marriage and how I pressured her for sex was worse than what her Grandfather had done to her as a child! It took a lot for me not to vomit when she said this.
> My wife said that by me demanding my rights as a husband I had hurt her to the point that at one stage she had considered suicide. This particular point would have been around 2 years ago.
> 
> I allowed my wife time to speak her mind and her words really wounded me but at the end I thanked her for being so brave and honest to express her emotions. I told my wife that I hoped that she could bring these type of expressions in with her when in counseling next week.
> 
> By the end of the conversation she was afraid of my reaction 'that I might go out and walk into the river, because I had said I felt like doing this before.' I reassured her that I would not do this. Although we kissed after this I could not let her hug me tightly. I am so wound up from not having sex that I told her I was afraid how I would react physically towards her if we hugged.
> 
> I had to stop short of suggesting that if we could not reconnect through sex then we might need to separate or seek a divorce. I instead said that options would need to be explored and that if I said anymore I would hurt her too deeply. *This is really hurting me*.


What part is hurting you? The part where she said she had been hurt more by you demanding your rights than by her grandfather's abuse, or the current lack of sex?

From your description here, it sounds like the current lack of sex - in which case I would challenge you to re-think the importance of that in light of the real work that is needed to be done for your wife to gain trust in you, and in herself, again. Your wife needs more of your empathy in order to make it through this and get out the other side as a more normal functioning adult.

And, this bit about walking in to the river that you said? Please, lonesome, if you feel like that, please, please reach out yourself to someone for help for YOU.

Best wishes.


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## lonesomegra

accept said:


> I find it surprising you want to bring kids into this world when you have problems. Do you think that your wife having a child will cure her. It wont. You seem to have so many other problems apart from sex and sex is not what is causing them so they should be the first things you go to an MC to settle.


Nobody is perfect and although I have problems I still would love to be father to at least one more child. This perhaps is a selfish attitude as my wife has stated that she feels now is 'her time, to do something for herself.' At least I now know her position and will have to mourn my loss. But I would sooner hear it straight from her than feel she was prompted by a Counselor to take this position. 



Iwant2bhappy said:


> This all goes back to the first post you wrote. You are a selfish person by forcing her to have sex including anal sex. In my eyes forcing someone to have sex is RAPE. Maybe you should look into getting help for your sex addiction.


I do not have a sex addiction. If having sex on max 4 times a month is seen as an addiction then sex must be a very rare thing indeed. Even my wife agrees that I have never forced her against her will physically to have sex but I have mentally been strong in persuading her to do some things that she now states she does not like. I still maintain I am fully within my rights to want sex in my marriage but obviously now is one of the times I need to man up, abstain and put my wife first and see can some healing be achieved through MC.


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## lonesomegra

Enchantment said:


> What part is hurting you? The part where she said she had been hurt more by you demanding your rights than by her grandfather's abuse, or the current lack of sex?
> 
> From your description here, it sounds like the current lack of sex - in which case I would challenge you to re-think the importance of that in light of the real work that is needed to be done for your wife to gain trust in you, and in herself, again. Your wife needs more of your empathy in order to make it through this and get out the other side as a more normal functioning adult.
> 
> And, this bit about walking in to the river that you said? Please, lonesome, if you feel like that, please, please reach out yourself to someone for help for YOU.
> 
> Best wishes.


I am hurting because I did not know to what depth I had wounded my wife, but in truth I could never judge because she rarely speaks up about things. It hurts that she siad I hurt her more than her Grandfather molesting her. It hurts that I am not trying hard enough as a husband.

I know one side affect of at least 2 types of drugs that I am on (it states it on the leaflet that comes with each box) is it can induce feelings of suicide. I do know I was feeling really bad over Christmas but I put this down to the fact that I was driven insane by a toothache. The tooth was extracted in January. Prior to this I suppose it was 5 years ago since I had any feelings so low and I was very unexpectedly talked out of doing anything stupid by my sister in law during a New Year's Eve conversation over the phone. My wife's sister is the last person I would have expected to help me out. She has siad though if I ever do really need to talk that she will be there for me. 

I do regard my wife as a bit of a worrier and I think every time I get a bit low she becomes overly concerned. I actually will raise this issue in MC and see if the Counselor feels I need professional help in this area.


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## Enchantment

Hi lonesome ~

Haven't seen an update from you for awhile.

Just wanted to make sure that you were doing okay. 

Best wishes.


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## lonesomegra

I am taking things one day at a time at the moment. It is 24 days since we have had sex. I am also abstaining from masturbation. This is hard for me but I understood once we entered MC that there would need to be a period where the sex would have to take a back seat. At times the dynamic between us is almost like tension you could cut with a knife and yet we are laughing a little more at other times. I am doing my best to smile at my wife and to act more cheerful.

At best I would say all our communication is very measured and we are super aware of every little tick and nuance that the other person makes. (Well in so much as a man could hope to gather of a woman's wiles - there will always be that 'mystery' factor.) 

When my wife came back from IC she described the experience as wierd. There was no further expansion on this other than to tell me that there were issues she needed to raise with me but that she needed to process them first. We are back in MC in just over a day's time and I doubt anything much will be discussed between now and then. It could be that my wife wants the safety of MC to discuss these topics.

I don't know what will develop in the next MC session but I just hope that I am able to handle any curveballs that are tossed my way.

All's I can do in the meantime is keep on the current path and hope that we are going on the right direction.


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