# Catharsis of Confession



## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

It's been a year since I posted here and a lot has happened since my last thread. I'm still married to the same man, still dealing with the same problems, but there are some extenuating circumstances now.

Due in part to some of the responses I received from my last thread here, I did seek some medical help and being in Ontario, it took a good long time to get through the system. I had some of my meds adjusted, which helped my moods a bit, and I was referred to a diagnostic psychiatrist. That is a specialist who diagnoses a patient and puts together a treatment plan. She diagnosed me as high functioning Asperger's as well as having an attachment disorder. She changed some of my dosages, prescribed Clorazapam and Cognitive Behaviour Therapy, followed by talk therapy. 

While I agreed with the diagnoses, I refused the Clorazapam. I saw what it did to my mum and I am not going to be drugged into a stupor just so people can stand to be around me. I think all therapists are scam artists and CBT is ridiculous and also refused to follow through with that. I'm not saying this to be combative or blame shifting or trying to escape accountability. Having been through the mental health system I have formed my own opinions of what goes on and I stand by them. 

Anyway, as you may recall my last thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...nderstand-what-ive-done-wrong.html?highlight= H and I were in crises after my online fling with a scientist friend. I ended that relationship and had no contact with the scientist for the entire winter and into the early spring. H and I worked on our relationship and H came to understand that I had different needs sexually and that there were going to be things that we would have to explore in order to meet those needs. He was totally on board and had some of his own ideas. Actually, he got really into the idea of trying some new stuff and becoming more open. While I am bi-curious, he is totally straight, so bringing in a 3rd was a sticking point. And that was fine with me, it was something I was a bit interested in but it wasn't a big deal either way. I could take it or leave it. The real issue was that I wanted a side piece, a guy on the side. I did not want intercourse, I am terrified of getting pregnant again. But I wanted, well, basically, a boy toy. And H just wasn't ok with that. At least, not at that point and not in real life. I got back in touch with the scientist and things stayed on the up and up for most of the year. We were just friends and H knew I talked to him once in awhile. I knew H absolutely hated the scientist, he abhors him and I fear the day they ever meet in person. In late August, things started to heat up with the scientist again. I experienced graphic sexting for the first time. I don't feel comfortable putting nudes online or even in a text, so I never did that, but we did send photos back and forth. Just nothing R rated. 

The scientist and I met in person in late Sept and we made out in the woods. It was highly erotic for me, but also somewhat disappointing. I did not want to have sex with this man and I'd made that clear to him. Well, yes physically I did want to, very much. But I did not trust him and I have a myriad of reasons why I won't have sex with anyone else. So while I found the experience exhilarating in one sense, in another it was degrading and I felt used and a bit stupid. Like I'd really misunderstood something but didn't know what. It was a strange feeling but I still can't quite explain it. The problem with the relationship with the scientist is that I had to force it. I knew he was using me like I was using him, but I wanted him to WANT me. I had to force him to act like he wanted me and that was exhausting. I felt like I was chasing him when I wanted him to chase me. I would get so angry and frustrated when he wouldn't play along to my script. Men are supposed to chase women. It's what they do. This man in particular I chose because I knew he was weak and was a serial cheater. I knew I could get him to do anything. But he was doing it wrong! I would get angry and frustrated at him daily, but never enough to quit. I kept chasing that feeling of being wanted and desired. It would give me such a rush and I'd feel good for a little while, but then I'd need another hit. It was exhausting.

I felt both affection and disdain for the scientist. He is very physically appealing to me and we are superficially compatible. I see his weaknesses though and know he is a poser and a coward and then I have no remorse for using him as I do. I wish I did. I wish I had respect for his wife, but I honestly don't care about her. And I don't say that to be mean or cruel. I just have no feelings about her whatsoever. I feel nothing. I've met her, she's nice enough and I bear her no ill will. She's actually quite attractive. Anyway, the relationship with the scientist continued hot and heavy throughout the fall. We were in contact everyday, even when he was in Asia. On a church mission of all things. I actually really missed him when he was gone and that surprised me. When he got back I pushed and pushed for another meeting but he was always too busy and that made me mad. Again, he was supposed to be chasing me. I figured I'd overplayed my hand about being so explicit about not having intercourse. But I wasn't changing my mind on that and continued to make that clear. At this point H knew something was up but was being cool about it. I don't know if he knew it was the scientist, but he knew there was someone. I wanted to tell H, but he was dealing with a new promotion at work and was miserable with the extra workload and work politics and was so stressed about that. Plus the upcoming one year anniversary of his father's death is nearing so I kept telling myself that I should wait till the New Year to open up about everything. I had no intention of keeping the relationship a secret and even told the scientist that H knew I was interested in him but really really did not like him. 

About 2 weeks ago, the scientist and I met in the city while he was at work. We went to a park and I got in his van. I knew we would be messing around but I didn't think things would go as far as they did. We were in a van in a park FFS. I love giving oral sex and that is what I did. It was one of the worst decisions of my life. Strangely, I KNEW as I was doing it that I would regret it. Even marriage and relationship issues aside, I knew in my own self that I would regret this action. I enjoyed it while knowing I'd regret it. A very strange feeling. As soon as he was done his attitude cooled toward me and I felt like a one night stand who overstayed their welcome in a rom-com. I was furious. I kept what was left of my dignity and left but I was absolutely furious. Furious at myself, furious at him, furious at a society that makes something as simple as sex so complicated. A few hours later it all started to take on a dream like quality. I had to keep reminding myself that it had actually happened. It felt unreal. For days I just couldn't comprehend that it had actually happened. 
That was the beginning of the end for the scientist and I. Our conversations dwindled and it became more and more frustrating to talk to him. I've suffered from bruxism for years, but i had a particularly bad flare up and stress is a huge trigger. My hair started falling out, and I wasn't sleeping well. I took one of the Clonazapam's the dr gave me and I slept for 24hrs. I was disturbed by this apparent attack of conscience. I thought I was beyond that by now. It wasn't that I felt that I'd done anything morally WRONG, I still don't. I felt bad that I did it without H knowing and I felt bad about the circumstances. It was all wrong. I didn't get the satisfaction I thought I would. Nothing that I thought would happen did. I just felt empty and angry. 
A couple of nights ago I was drinking and i confessed to H. I don't like having secrets. It's too much stress. I am not good at lying. He was understandably hurt and outraged. Especially that he has to deal with this so close to the anniversary of his father's death. That just tripled the stress for him. I voluntarily cut off all contact with the scientist for good. I didn't leave any doors open this time. He is blocked on all my social media, his texts and tweets and messages are deleted and he is removing himself from the board of directors we both sat on. I removed his contact info from my phone and have shut down my Facebook for awhile. I need some time to refocus. 

H and I have talked about divorce and I offered to move out. I told him that I thought it best for us to separate because even as remorseful as I am right now, I can't guarantee that I won't do this again. I don't want to, that is certain. But the pull is so strong. I don't know why I can't be satisfied with an amazing husband, a beautiful home and two healthy happy children. I don't know why I have to have more. It's more than likely stemming from childhood abandonment issues and craving male attention to replace that which I could never get from my father. Classic "daddy issues". I know that, i just don't know what to do about it. Medication can't fix that. H does not want a divorce, at least not at this moment. I can foresee him changing his mind if he can't handle all of this. I am waiting and watching. 

I need a distraction so I am attending an open house at the local college on the weekend. When I was college aged my ill health and poverty made it impossible for me to attend post secondary schooling. I am in a better situation now and nowadays they make arrangements for people like me. There is a seminar being held for special needs students and will detail what kind of arrangements can be made for those on the spectrum. Hopefully I can find something that will give me a sense of purpose and I will be too busy to bother with this other stuff. H and I will continue to work at finding a middle ground that suits our sexual needs. He has been open with me about some things he wants and I have been agreeable. He was always afraid that I would shut him down or be offended. At this point there is literally nothing that can surprise or offend me. 

I know this post is going to be controversial, perhaps I should put a trigger warning at the top? I did cheat and I did commit adultery and I own that. Whether H can deal with it in the long run remains to be seen. He says in a way it is a relief that it is done and over with and that I finally know it's not what I'm looking for. I don't share that POV, as I still have so many questions as to why it didn't work, why I felt so typical afterwards. I thought I was above that and I am disappointed in myself. 
Beyond the catharsis of confessing, perhaps this post will be helpful to others. Don't marry an Aspie if you can't handle this type of drama. It seems typical from what I've read (read about Einstein and Newton and their personal lives, among others). And for the love of all that's holy, Aspies, think long and freaking hard about marrying at all.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Your poor husband. He needs to get the hell rid of you.


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## KillerClown (Jul 20, 2016)

I know people with severe Asperger's. They don't act like you. I come from an entire generation of children with abandonment issues, myself included. Most of us live productive lives without harming those around us emotionally or physically. 

YOU chose to live a unfulfilling life and YOU chose to harm your husband emotionally. Divorce is probably the only option for you because you are unwilling to grow as a person and will continue to harm your husband.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I have no remorse for using him as I do. I wish I did. I wish I had respect for his wife, but I honestly don't care about her. And I don't say that to be mean or cruel. I just have no feelings about her whatsoever. I feel nothing. I've met her, she's nice enough and I bear her no ill will. She's actually quite attractive. Anyway


You should get some help for your clinical depression. The apathy you describe is a classic symptom. 

Svcking OM's c0ck in the van was probably just a desperate attempt to feel ANYTHING. 

Even a negative emotion like the disgust from a load of semen in your mouth by some dude who used you.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> LadyOfTheLake said:
> 
> 
> > I have no remorse for using him as I do. I wish I did. I wish I had respect for his wife, but I honestly don't care about her. And I don't say that to be mean or cruel. I just have no feelings about her whatsoever. I feel nothing. I've met her, she's nice enough and I bear her no ill will. She's actually quite attractive. Anyway
> ...



I've been treated for depression since I was 16. The apathy is either part of what I am or a very long lasting side effect of the meds. 


Men do not finish in my mouth. That is revolting. I am always in control of where that happens. I felt disgust with him as a person and with myself for having so terribly misjudged a situation again.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I've been treated for depression since I was 16. The apathy is either part of what I am or a very long lasting side effect of the meds.
> 
> 
> Men do not finish in my mouth. That is revolting. I am always in control of where that happens. I felt disgust with him as a person and with myself for *having so terribly misjudged a situation again*.


Reading through this, I suspect you didn't misjudge it at all. You knew all of this beforehand, you just chose to keep going anyway.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I've been treated for depression since I was 16. The apathy is either part of what I am or a very long lasting side effect of the meds.
> 
> 
> Men do not finish in my mouth. That is revolting. *I am always in control* of where that happens. I felt disgust with him as a person and with myself for having so terribly misjudged a situation again.


It doesn't appear that you are in control of yourself...if you don't have that -you can't have control of anything else. 

It's a shame that your voyage of self discovery must come at such a cost to your husband. FFS...this sounds more like self-hatred that is upgrading to hatred for your husband. 

At some point, hopefully, you will grow up enough to have some kind of empathy for your husband. Be kind to him...he is not at fault for your actions.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I felt disgust with him as a person and with myself for having so terribly misjudged a situation again.


Sounds like you judged it perfectly as quoted below...



LadyOfTheLake said:


> Strangely, I KNEW as I was doing it that I would regret it. Even marriage and relationship issues aside, I knew in my own self that I would regret this action. I enjoyed it while knowing I'd regret it.


You were just getting an ego boost from betraying your husband and stabbing him in the back. It's part of the thrill for most cheaters. They get off on cucking their spouses.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

browser said:


> *What a selfish, self centered, self absorbed individual.
> 
> Op- you so into your own feelings, meeting your own needs, that she has nothing to give to anyone else.*
> 
> ...


The bolded part is true. I admit it. I am uninterested in other people, I find them irritating and loud. They are too much. I have no desire to be with people so I spend almost all of my time alone and I realize I get too caught up in myself. I don't know if there is an answer to the problem. I am not sociable and I don't want to be. I feel physically ill at the thought of interacting with live humans. People agitate me.The dr prescribed me the Clonazapam to calm me down so I can interact with the people I don't want to interact with. If that isn't the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, I don't know what is. 

I've been through the wringer with doctors and specialists and drugs and therapists. For the most part I don't think any of them know di*k all what they are doing and at best it is a best guess scenario. I've been scanned and MRI'd and poked and prodded and hooked up to machines and wires and every bloody kind of test there is so I'm afraid I take exception to being told I have a misconception of the mental health industry. I've been inside the machine and it's broken.

What I'm failing to see here is any appreciation for what an outstanding person my husband is. This man has gone above and beyond all expectations. He's dealt with all my crap, and the crap just keeps coming. He's as normal as normal can be. I don't understand why he stays with me. He insists that I'm worth the fight. I disagree and have given him permission to do as he pleases, with whomever he wants. He's had offers, as I recently learned. I'm utterly amazed he didn't take her up.

I've put in an application to be a volunteer at a local museum, and I volunteer with a conservation organization in doing field work. I'm TRYING to do normal things that will take up some of my endless amounts of time and make me be more normal. I am trying to fix this. It is just a giant clusterf*ck.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Men do not finish in my mouth. That is revolting.


What's revolting actually, is your behavior. Does your husband know where your mouth has been when he kisses you? Do you consider what might be revolting to him? You need to get help for yourself.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> What I'm failing to see here is any appreciation for what an outstanding person my husband is. This man has gone above and beyond all expectations. He's dealt with all my crap, and the crap just keeps coming. He's as normal as normal can be. I don't understand why he stays with me. He insists that I'm worth the fight. I disagree and have given him permission to do as he pleases, with whomever he wants.


There's nothing to appreciate about a codependent who refuses to dump a remorseless cheater.

We see them all the time on TAM. BS's who desperately try to cling on. We call them out for being fools.

If you had an ounce of love left for this man, you'd do him a FAVOR and divorce him for his own good. 

So he be happy with another woman who isn't sociopathic and you can continue on your merry way of self destruction alone.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Reading through this, I suspect you didn't misjudge it at all. You knew all of this beforehand, you just chose to keep going anyway.


I disagree. I wanted something from the affair and I did not get it. Not even close. I don't understand why it didn't work and why nothing went the way I wanted it to. That's a whole separate issue and one that I'll probably never understand.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> What I'm failing to see here is any appreciation for what an outstanding person my husband is.


The only thing outstanding I can see if that he hasn't murdered you in your sleep. Other than that, he's basically a wuss, allowing himself to be cuckolded.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> The bolded part is true. I admit it. *I am uninterested in other people, I find them irritating and loud. They are too much. I have no desire to be with people so I spend almost all of my time alone and I realize I get too caught up in myself. I don't know if there is an answer to the problem.*
> 
> Soooo..You are not some special snowflake. You are just an ass. The world is full of them. You can get past it. Get some real help. If you can't muster the energy to do it for yourself...please...do so for this man you call your husband.
> 
> ...


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> Sounds like you judged it perfectly as quoted below...
> 
> 
> 
> You were just getting an ego boost from betraying your husband and stabbing him in the back. It's part of the thrill for most cheaters. They get off on cucking their spouses.



Absolutely not. He was never supposed to get hurt. It is still my feeling that one person can't be hurt by the actions of another. If he didn't know what I did, it didn't affect him in any way at all. So only by knowing, he is hurt? That does not make sense to me. I explained the same thing to him last night when he told me about the woman who had been chasing him and sending him photos. He had been afraid to tell me and I said that was ridiculous. I didn't know, it didn't affect me, so how could it hurt me and why would I be angry? What he does is his own affair. But that is tangential to this post. 

I contend he shouldn't be hurt, so hurting him offers me no thrill. I have no desire to hurt anyone. I am not interested in anyone else's reactions or feelings, as a matter of fact. As was stated in another post, I made this all about me.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

lady,

curious, i have not read your history, so i can only go by what you have written here on this, do you have a problem demostrating emotions to these mens, in other words are your needs sexual fulfillment only and not emotional connection? also given your transgressions and how your husband has been willing to take you back, have you offered to all him to reach out to someone else perhaps as a hall pass perhaps as something else.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I contend he shouldn't be hurt, so hurting him offers me no thrill. I have no desire to hurt anyone. I am not interested in anyone else's reactions or feelings, as a matter of fact. As was stated in another post, I made this all about me.


The thrill is in getting one over on him. Your ego knows, every time you plant a big fat kiss on your husband's lips. That's all it needs to get fed. Stop pretending you didn't enjoy emasculating him.

You think you're some enigma wrapped in a mystery but you sound like a textbook cheater to me. Nothing to see here....


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Xenote said:


> lady,
> 
> curious, i have not read your history, so i can only go by what you have written here on this, do you have a problem demostrating emotions to these mens, in other words are your needs sexual fulfillment only and not emotional connection? also given your transgressions and how your husband has been willing to take you back, have you offered to all him to reach out to someone else perhaps as a hall pass perhaps as something else.


He has carte blanche to do whatever he wants. I do not want to have any influence or control over him. He rejects my suggestion that he do as he pleases. Originally he was offended by it, now I think he just does not want the drama. But I suspect that one day he will.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> The thrill is in getting one over on him. Your ego knows, every time you plant a big fat kiss on your husband's lips. That's all it needs to get fed.



Again, you have it wrong. I get the ego stroking from the other men. I get a thrill out of making them do what I want and say what I want. I love it when they act like puppets. It's like....I don't usually understand what people say and do, but I can use sex to make men do things and it all makes sense. Men will do literally anything to get laid. With that carrot dangling in front of them I can make them dance and then the world makes sense and I feel really really good. If I could use any other weapon I would. But sex is the one that works best. 

I hold H up above all of that. I have no reason to intentionally hurt him and nothing that does hurt him makes me feel good. I wouldn't be here writing all of this if I was feeling good about H. I know he is hurting. I don't want him to be hurt. Other than this one issue, he and I are a very good match. I don't want him in pain, even though it's a pain I can't comprehend or rationalize.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Saw this coming.

Pun not intended.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I've been through the wringer with doctors and specialists and drugs and therapists. For the most part I don't think any of them know di*k all what they are doing and at best it is a best guess scenario. I've been scanned and MRI'd and poked and prodded and hooked up to machines and wires and every bloody kind of test there is so I'm afraid I take exception to being told I have a misconception of the mental health industry. I've been inside the machine and it's broken.


Sorry. Not buying it. Your stance of knowing more than the healthcare professionals is classic. You're the one who is broken... and you choose to remain so. As others have said, do the decent thing and release your husband from this drama.


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Again, you have it wrong. I get the ego stroking from the other men. I get a thrill out of making them do what I want and say what I want. I love it when they act like puppets. It's like....I don't usually understand what people say and do, but I can use sex to make men do things and it all makes sense. Men will do literally anything to get laid. With that carrot dangling in front of them I can make them dance and then the world makes sense and I feel really really good. If I could use any other weapon I would. But sex is the one that works best.
> 
> I hold H up above all of that. I have no reason to intentionally hurt him and nothing that does hurt him makes me feel good. I wouldn't be here writing all of this if I was feeling good about H. I know he is hurting. I don't want him to be hurt. Other than this one issue, he and I are a very good match. I don't want him in pain, even though it's a pain I can't comprehend or rationalize.


And caused. You caused the pain.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I get the ego stroking from the other men. I get a thrill out of making them do what I want and say what I want. I love it when they act like puppets. It's like....I don't usually understand what people say and do, but I can use sex to make men do things and it all makes sense. Men will do literally anything to get laid.


LMAO, the only one who got played was you in the van. Few compliments and down you went. Then he bounced.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

41362 said:


> And caused. You caused the pain.



I own that. This is all my own doing.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Other than this one issue, he and I are a very good match.


You mean other than giving your affair partners blowjobs in vans? He must feel like such a lucky guy!

Find a new counselor..... splurge a little. In fact, you'd make a fascinating case study for a team of them.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Absolutely not. He was never supposed to get hurt. *It is still my feeling that one person can't be hurt by the actions of another.* If he didn't know what I did, it didn't affect him in any way at all. So only by knowing, he is hurt? That does not make sense to me. I explained the same thing to him last night when he told me about the woman who had been chasing him and sending him photos. He had been afraid to tell me and I said that was ridiculous. I didn't know, it didn't affect me, so how could it hurt me and why would I be angry? What he does is his own affair. But that is tangential to this post.
> 
> I contend he shouldn't be hurt, so hurting him offers me no thrill. I have no desire to hurt anyone. I am not interested in anyone else's reactions or feelings, as a matter of fact. As was stated in another post, I made this all about me.


I have personally Shot people while a soldier....they would seriously disagree with you. I have been shot, stabbed and lost half a hand to a grenade.....I disagree with you. 

As would anyone beaten in the street.
Robbed at gun-point
battered spouses
battered children


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

BetrayedDad said:


> You mean other than giving your affair partners blowjobs in vans? He must feel like such a lucky guy!


Yep, that's like saying that other than that hugeass hole in your head where the bullet just went, you're fine.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> Yep, that's like saying that other than that hugeass hole in your head where the bullet just went, you're fine.


Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln? - credit to @tech-novelist on that one.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Again, you have it wrong. I get the ego stroking from the other men. I get a thrill out of making them do what I want and say what I want. I love it when they act like puppets. It's like....I don't usually understand what people say and do, but I can use sex to make men do things and it all makes sense. Men will do literally anything to get laid. With that carrot dangling in front of them I can make them dance and then the world makes sense and I feel really really good. If I could use any other weapon I would. But sex is the one that works best.
> 
> I hold H up above all of that. I have no reason to intentionally hurt him and nothing that does hurt him makes me feel good. I wouldn't be here writing all of this if I was feeling good about H. I know he is hurting. I don't want him to be hurt. Other than this one issue, he and I are a very good match. I don't want him in pain, even though it's a pain I can't comprehend or rationalize.


Then why get married and exchange vows and make all these meaningless promises of loyalty and commitment?

No one has an issue with the part about you going around blowing and screwing all the guys you want and manipulating them using sex as some sort of tool. Well, at least I don't have a problem with it.

The problem is that you've got a husband at home who has committed to you for life, who doesn't want to be with anyone else, who you are deceiving and you ARE causing great pain whether you understand it or not.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

The posters that are getting angry or upset don't understand that they are probably dealing with a true sociopath who has a complete lack of empathy towards others.

It doesn't make me angry to read her words.

I find it fascinating and while I do try to point out the error of her ways I recognize the futility in attempting to do so.

It's like trying to explain color to a blind man.

She is here looking for help because she WANTS to understand what's wrong, but she is incapable of doing so.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

I don't know much about aspergers syndrome, maybe @MattMatt could help with that. 
But you should not reject the medical care and advice. 

You explained issues about your Dad, maybe you are testing your husband to see how much he really cares for you? 

Medication can't fix everything, I agree but you need to find some alternative therapies to become better, you are putting yourself at risk meeting strange men, in vans and woods, these are dangerous and the potential for violence or worse, be careful, not to mention, STDs and HIV, and pregnancy. 


Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Lady, 

Well if your husband still wants to be with you, regardless of your desire to seek it on the side, then he loves regardless, or perhaps he secretly enjoys it and is in denial. there are some men like that, personally don't know any of them but they are out there. 
you didn't answer my first question....is your need one of sexual unfulfilled appetite or is there a emotional aspect that is not being met at home? what i am trying to understand is your Asperger impacting your ability to feel anything for another human being beyond the value of good sex?


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

browser said:


> LadyOfTheLake said:
> 
> 
> > Again, you have it wrong. I get the ego stroking from the other men. I get a thrill out of making them do what I want and say what I want. I love it when they act like puppets. It's like....I don't usually understand what people say and do, but I can use sex to make men do things and it all makes sense. Men will do literally anything to get laid. With that carrot dangling in front of them I can make them dance and then the world makes sense and I feel really really good. If I could use any other weapon I would. But sex is the one that works best.
> ...


I got married very young and had no idea what I was doing. Same with when I had kids. I was young and totally clueless as to what would be expected of me. I had no clue what marriage was, obviously my vision of it is still vastly different than most others. 

I married to escape a bad situation. I did, and do, love H to the best of my ability. Same with the kids. But I don't think I'm capable of love in the way most would expect.

When I married I was sexually repressed, terrified of men, and completely naive. You'll have to go back and read my thread about being an LD wife to get the back story there. I've since had a polar shift in attitude about sex. I just went too far the other way.


----------



## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I did, and do, love H to the best of my ability..


The best of your ability is giving controlled blow jobs to various men in the back of vans while your loyal, faithful, devoted and rather clueless husband is home waiting for you, because you get off on the so-called power trip. But they won't shoot in your mouth because, well that's just disgusting and you have your limits. 

The best of your ability isn't close to even vaguely approaching what most of us call "love".


----------



## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

browser said:


> LadyOfTheLake said:
> 
> 
> > I did, and do, love H to the best of my ability..
> ...


Various men? It happened once, with one man. When I expounded on my BJ preferences I was referring to a lifetime of experience. My extra marital experience is limited to one man whom I've known for years. I'm certainly not making a habit of it. I did it. I did not like it. I see no purpose in doing it again. 

As for love, I agree. My version of it is very unlike anyone else's.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

KillerClown said:


> I know people with severe Asperger's. They don't act like you. I come from an entire generation of children with abandonment issues, myself included. Most of us live productive lives without harming those around us emotionally or physically.
> 
> YOU chose to live a unfulfilling life and YOU chose to harm your husband emotionally. Divorce is probably the only option for you because you are unwilling to grow as a person and will continue to harm your husband.


The OP's post has triggered the f**k out of me. 

And not much on TAM does trigger me...

Your Asperger's don't behave like her? Well, mine did. She is a high functioning Asperger's, too.

They don't think or behave like other people. Why? *They just don't*. 

Because they cannot.


----------



## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> The OP's post has triggered the f**k out of me.
> 
> And not much on TAM does trigger me...
> 
> ...


Sounds like a good reason to avoid them.


----------



## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Various men? It happened once, with one man. When I expounded on my BJ preferences I was referring to a lifetime of experience. My extra marital experience is limited to one man whom I've known for years. I'm certainly not making a habit of it. I did it. I did not like it. I see no purpose in doing it again.
> 
> As for love, I agree. My version of it is very unlike anyone else's.


My bad, from the way you write it sounds like an ongoing thing.

If it's over and you've been honest and you can live with knowing your husband's penis is the only one you're ever going to see going forward, then perhaps there's a way to make this work.

But I've got my doubts that you'll be able to restrain yourself, based on what you've said here.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Various men? It happened once, with one man. When I expounded on my BJ preferences I was referring to a lifetime of experience. My extra marital experience is limited to one man whom I've known for years.* I'm certainly not making a habit of it. I did it. I did not like it. I see no purpose in doing it again*.
> 
> As for love, I agree. My version of it is very unlike anyone else's.


Yep. That's sort of close to what my wife told me.

I am without words at the moment.


----------



## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

Wait, I found it.

Knew there was something that made me think you'll be doing it again.



LadyOfTheLake said:


> even as remorseful as I am right now, I can't guarantee that I won't do this again. I don't want to, that is certain. But the pull is so strong. I don't know why I can't be satisfied with an amazing husband, a beautiful home and two healthy happy children. I don't know why I have to have more. .


I think this is why I figured you haven't seen the last of being in the back of a van trying to control a strange penis (and avoiding a mouthful of semen) while proclaiming you really "don't want it".


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

browser said:


> Wait, I found it.
> 
> Knew there was something that made me think you'll be doing it again.
> 
> ...


You've just titled the Mémoires


----------



## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

browser said:


> Wait, I found it.
> 
> Knew there was something that made me think you'll be doing it again.
> 
> ...


Maybe she means she wouldn't use the same van.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Popped in read the thread.

Yikes

Popping back out..for good. lol

Seriously OP will most likely get flamed, already seen responses for the husband to divorce etc etc. The standard response.

Didn't really see if the OP was looking for advise or not, anyway y'all enjoy.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Damn....


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

It's interesting how many people are reacting to the story rather than the situation. You aren't telling her anything she doesn't know. She knows that she has been a **** awful wife. Her husband, in her eyes, has been great, but he may be more scared than anything. 

She definitely sounds like she is on the anti-social level of disorders. It's good she recognizes it and it's pretty amazing how she spells it all out. In some ways, we all feel many feelings she has, but it's our sense of self that keeps us from acting upon them. Really, if she wants to find a way to manage herself and not actually **** over anyone, she should just get out of the relationship. Let this man find a life. Let a good woman have him to be with. Give him a chance to start over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

Herschel said:


> It's interesting how many people are reacting to the story rather than the situation.


The story IS the situation.

Or the situation IS the story.

Or both. Or neither. I think I need a drink.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Xenote said:


> you didn't answer my first question....is your need one of sexual unfulfilled appetite or is there a emotional aspect that is not being met at home? what i am trying to understand is your Asperger impacting your ability to feel anything for another human being beyond the value of good sex?


I'm not sure what you mean. I don't have any emotional needs. Not that I'm aware of anyway. My sex life with H is pretty good and very regular. 

Boredom, lack of stimulation, and a craving for something I can't quite explain are what drive my behavior. Prior to this van incident all of my indiscretions were committed in the form of online sex chats and "online affairs". This is the first time physical contact has occurred.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Moderator Warning:-

This is not open season on people who are anywhere on the ASD spectrum.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/2117-forum-rules-please-read-first.html

Especially:-


> 1 Treat others on the forum with dignity and respect.


This will be the only warning. Further action, including bans, can be expected if the forum rules are breached.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I'm not sure what you mean. I don't have any emotional needs. Not that I'm aware of anyway. My sex life with H is pretty good and very regular.
> 
> Boredom, lack of stimulation, and a craving for something I can't quite explain are what drive my behavior. Prior to this van incident all of my indiscretions were committed in the form of online sex chats and "online affairs". This is the first time physical contact has occurred.


Do you drink?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Herschel said:


> LadyOfTheLake said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure what you mean. I don't have any emotional needs. Not that I'm aware of anyway. My sex life with H is pretty good and very regular.
> ...



Rarely and only in moderation. Maybe one drink, once or twice a month, if that.


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## Florida_rosbif (Oct 18, 2015)

I feel for your husband. There is something very unnerving about the matter of fact, dispassionate way that you have proceeded through a series of EAs, culminating in a PA while telling him what you've done at each step along your journey.

Presumably when he started his relationship with you no one was kind enough to give him that forthright piece of advice "Don't put your **** in crazy."


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Rarely and only in moderation. Maybe one drink, once or twice a month, if that.


Just wondering if there is any other sort of self medicating. You sound similar to my stbx, though I think she is more borderline and you are more anti-social.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

<<Not an expert....BUT

I'll admit very little knowledge of Aspergers, however what you've disclosed--lying, the NEED to control (you said you'd use ANY means to manipulate/control men), the inability to feel....my first thought is sociopathy.

Question--going back to your statement that you find sex the best method to control men--if you found another method more more effective, say perhaps violence--would you use it?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> <<Not an expert....BUT
> 
> I'll admit very little knowledge of Aspergers, however what you've disclosed--lying, the NEED to control (you said you'd use ANY means to manipulate/control men), the inability to feel....my first thought is sociopathy.
> 
> Question--going back to your statement that you find sex the best method to control men--if you found another method more more effective, say perhaps violence--would you use it?


Actually, it's fairly standard for some people who are High Functioning Asperger's.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Actually, it's fairly standard for some people who are High Functioning Asperger's.


How is the distinction drawn?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Florida_rosbif said:


> I feel for your husband. There is something very unnerving about the matter of fact, dispassionate way that you have proceeded through a series of EAs, culminating in a PA while telling him what you've done at each step along your journey.
> 
> Presumably when he started his relationship with you no one was kind enough to give him that forthright piece of advice "Don't put your **** in crazy."


I'll accept your feelings on his behalf.

Why? Because I have been in his situation. And, yes, it hurts.

And what makes you think he wasn't warned? If he had have been, he loves his @LadyOfTheLake so much he wouldn't have taken a blind bit of notice! 

How do I know? Oh, some things I just know.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> How is the distinction drawn?


Not sure. At all!

However, I do know that the rabbit hole that LadyOfTheLake's husband fell down is both deep and capacious.

And @Fozzy I would like to extend to you my thanks for giving me the opportunity to use the phrase "deep and capacious" in a post on TAM! :grin2:

Jokes to one side, although I have studied the ASD spectrum as part of an approved Mental Health Qualification, this level of problem is way beyond me.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

> Question--going back to your statement that you find sex the best method to control men--if you found another method more more effective, say perhaps violence--would you use it?


I've done it. I don't care for it. I feel there is something very dangerous in me when it comes to that and I would go too far and not be able to stop. My father took pleasure in hurting people and I feel that in me. I don't want to go there.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> And what makes you think he wasn't warned? If he had have been, he loves his @LadyOfTheLake so much he wouldn't have taken a blind bit of notice!


OP's husband has known about the emotional affair with Bill Nye the science guy for over a year.

The blowjob in the van down by the river sounds recent but regardless, I agree.

He stayed AWARE his wife's an active cheater and probably aware she needs serious help.

I still think it's depression causing her apathy. Being doped up on meds will do that.

OP how about sending your husband here? He needs as much help as you do at this point.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I'm not sure what you mean. I don't have any emotional needs. Not that I'm aware of anyway. My sex life with H is pretty good and very regular.
> 
> Boredom, lack of stimulation, and a craving for something I can't quite explain are what drive my behavior. Prior to this van incident all of my indiscretions were committed in the form of online sex chats and "online affairs". This is the first time physical contact has occurred.


I understand that you don't understand how neurotypical think and feel, so you seem cold when you are merely wired differently. 
I am not going to give you grief, I am hoping to offer you a possible tool that could help you stay faithful to your husband and avoid hurting him or anyone else.

Prior to this, your affairs existed more or less in your mind. These sexual mind games seemed to fill a need you have.

If others are correct and part of this is related to ASD and a need for control, have you explored the world of Domination and Submission, maybe even a little S and M?

Exploring basic BDSM would be mentally and physically stimulating, could possibly satisfy the unknown craving if it is related to the need to be in control and/or a need to release all control with a partner you trust.

There is plenty of room to play sexual mind games, manipulate, dominate, and/or submit within your marriage. You can dangle carrots for your husband.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

browser said:


> The story IS the situation.
> 
> Or the situation IS the story.
> 
> Or both. Or neither. I think I need a drink.


Einhorn is Finkle. Finkle is Einhorn!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Not sure. At all!
> 
> However, I do know that the rabbit hole that LadyOfTheLake's husband fell down is both deep and capacious.
> 
> ...


It's been my understanding that autism (and presumably aspergers?) sufferers DO feel emotions, however they have limited ability to understand and relate to others, whereas it's been my understanding that people with sociopathy/psychopathy simply do NOT feel emotions at all, acting completely out of a sense of self-interest. Even actions that appear outwardly charitable or noble serve a self interest.

What OP is demonstrating here is more akin to the latter, not the former.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I've done it. I don't care for it. I feel there is something very dangerous in me when it comes to that and I would go too far and not be able to stop. My father took pleasure in hurting people and I feel that in me. I don't want to go there.


Look, you may very well have Aspergers. I couldn't say one way or the other. But there is a very real possibility of comorbidity here. I'm glad you don't want to go there. 

Here's my take: blowjobs aside--the real problem here is that you recognize you have this potential in you but you're refusing to do anything about it. The fact that you are in a house with children makes that completely unacceptable. Get some help.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I stopped reading after you encounter in the woods with the scientist. You are leading your poor husband on and under the guise of medical issues, poor you etc you don't give a **** about your H. I hope he divorces you and he finds someone who will love him for him, not someone who has no respect, care or love for him.


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## Seasong (Mar 1, 2012)

In her OP she does state she was also diagnosed with an attachment disorder.

Also, she has stated since this happened she's doing more to fill up her time, like going back to school, and currently volunteering, I believe.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> It's been my understanding that autism (and presumably aspergers?) sufferers DO feel emotions, however they have limited ability to understand and relate to others, whereas it's been my understanding that people with sociopathy/psychopathy simply do NOT feel emotions at all, acting completely out of a sense of self-interest. Even actions that appear outwardly charitable or noble serve a self interest.
> 
> What OP is demonstrating here is more akin to the latter, not the former.


My wife decided to have an affair. But it wasn't cheating on me, because she told me in advance.

And she was dumbfounded and nonplussed when I was upset.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

aine said:


> I stopped reading after you encounter in the woods with the scientist. You are leading your poor husband on and under the guise of medical issues, poor you etc you don't give a **** about your H. I hope he divorces you and he finds someone who will love him for him, not someone who has no respect, care or love for him.


*Oh, she does love him for him.*

That's a sad part about this whole situation.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Fozzy said:
> 
> 
> > It's been my understanding that autism (and presumably aspergers?) sufferers DO feel emotions, however they have limited ability to understand and relate to others, whereas it's been my understanding that people with sociopathy/psychopathy simply do NOT feel emotions at all, acting completely out of a sense of self-interest. Even actions that appear outwardly charitable or noble serve a self interest.
> ...



Wow, your wife sounds like me. That is exactly what I did and that was/is my reaction. 

Interesting.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

I wonder if you are truly able to see your own true nature... an obvious problem of not seeing this reality in a sense that affects you, helps you in any base path requirement and drives you from empathy and compassion... selfishness is not too much self-love, but a matter of loving yourself way too little.

I am no one who can analyze you in any medical sense, and I have no harsh words or judgement to pass here.

If love is so foreign for yourself, it can only be even more foreign for others... I trust you'd share enough for your children, I surely hope so for their welfare. I do hear sadness in your words brought by your attachment disorder... you know you hurt those you are close to, yet every nuclear relationship requires it so you are left rationalizing them instead of growing them... a drought of mindfulness in what should be a rain forest.

There is no freedom from hurt on this path... and you know this, yet as you watch the skin cut with the lashes self-served, you have no immediate sense of being bled dry... but you will one day if you won't stop it, such willingness may not be tangible at the present, but if anything... I hear a lot of self-control in your words.

So how can you lessen your hurtful footprint and increase your loving one? There is no starting point on a circle... yet as you try your hardest to search for one, it will not be found because there is simply no beginning, thus no end.

Suffering comes from a cycle of failing to understand this "no beginning"... everything you do is a catalyst to it's next contributing consciousness. Sure, you could place a physical beginning and end to it and try to make it plausible that this will end, but the lives you touch, touch another, and another, and another... a consciousness forever in play.

But the race around the circle causes the outside force to pull at one... a mind is not restful hangs on a fragile edge and as you shared, pulls at your contentedness for reasons unexplained in the present.

Keep working on the middle path of the circle... not following well and finding yourself on the outside band finds wanting the craving of unmindful desires creates poor results as you throw yourself at it, yet having it on the inside band leaves you bored and looking for a sense of purpose.

Once you learn to expand the middle path and lesson the other extremes of the inner and outer bands, will this come together for you.

Accept that you are not above any of your feelings and perhaps something will fall into place, perhaps there is simply too much of the wrong control.

Peace be with you...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Wow, your wife sounds like me. That is exactly what I did and that was/is my reaction.
> 
> Interesting.


 @LadyOfTheLake

And my wife keeps saying: "Interesting" too!

By any chance, do you have a whole slew of degrees, various other qualifications, a couple of MAs and two Doctorates?

And do you see comedy programmes on the TV and remain stony faced, yet if there is some news item that is really terribly sad, do you find yourself laughing outloud?

Just thought I'd check... 

By the way, we've been together 27 years, in total.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> LadyOfTheLake said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, your wife sounds like me. That is exactly what I did and that was/is my reaction.
> ...



I was unable to pursue post secondary education when I was younger due to my epilepsy being uncontrolled and being completely poverty stricken. I grew up in a very poor family and no one has gone on to college or university. 
However, I am a life long learner and have taught myself several skills and have taken some online courses from Stanford. I am looking to attend a local college in the coming year. 

H often has to explain jokes to me. It annoys him that I don't see how it's funny. 

The things I find funny don't usually amuse others. I like science jokes.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I was unable to pursue post secondary education when I was younger due to my epilepsy being uncontrolled and being completely poverty stricken. I grew up in a very poor family and no one has gone on to college or university.
> However, I am a life long learner and have taught myself several skills and have taken some online courses from Stanford. I am looking to attend a local college in the coming year.
> 
> H often has to explain jokes to me. It annoys him that I don't see how it's funny.
> ...


Epilepsy? That's an interesting cog in this machine.

How severe were your seizures when you had them? Long time seizures in children and young adults can result in significant personality changes

I'm not a neurologist but I did stay at a holiday inn. Joking aside,google look up shows many cases of children who suffered long term seizures, did change significantly> Best example was of happy children unable to associate smiling as way of showing happiness.

I wonder if this is the case here with you.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

I wonder if seizures can turn you into an immoral person as well.....


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I have a family member, who is very close to me, who is right on the borderline between Aspergers and Autistic. And she does not share any of your traits. In fact, she is an empath: she feels others' pain very deeply. So deeply in fact that she will go into a profound depression if one of her friends is going through a tragedy in life. She had a good friend who's brother died, and she was more upset and grieving than her friend. 

So this inability to empathize? I'm not buying it. I think on top of ASD you are also a sociopath. Those co-morbidities can coexist. 

If you really want to know what is wrong with you, get to a psychologist and have a full psychological workup done. I would bet sociopathy/psychopathy, or at the least you have some type of Machiavellian personality.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I have a family member, who is very close to me, who is right on the borderline between Aspergers and Autistic. And she does not share any of your traits. In fact, she is an empath: she feels others' pain very deeply. So deeply in fact that she will go into a profound depression if one of her friends is going through a tragedy in life. She had a good friend who's brother died, and she was more upset and grieving than her friend.
> 
> So this inability to empathize? I'm not buying it. I think on top of ASD you are also a sociopath. Those co-morbidities can coexist.
> 
> If you really want to know what is wrong with you, get to a psychologist and have a full psychological workup done. I would bet sociopathy/psychopathy, or at the least you have some type of Machiavellian personality.


 @bandit.45 If my wife sees a person in trouble or upset, she *sort of* gets it.

But if she sees an animal in distress, that gets a *major* reaction from her.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> So this inability to empathize? I'm not buying it. I think on top of ASD you are also a sociopath. Those co-morbidities can coexist.


100% agree with you. Correlation is not causation. I wouldn't be surprised if she had half a dozen undiagnosed disorders.

One of my kids is on the autistic spectrum. He's one of the sweetest, most empathic person you'd ever want to meet.

She has already has admitted to lifelong depression. Depressed people have a hard time feeling. That's why many for example cut themselves.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> bandit.45 said:
> 
> 
> > I have a family member, who is very close to me, who is right on the borderline between Aspergers and Autistic. And she does not share any of your traits. In fact, she is an empath: she feels others' pain very deeply. So deeply in fact that she will go into a profound depression if one of her friends is going through a tragedy in life. She had a good friend who's brother died, and she was more upset and grieving than her friend.
> ...


I used to be like that. I have an affinity with all animals. As a child I would suffer great distress if I saw an animal in pain, even if on TV or in a book. 

Now, I still have great sympathy and one of my volunteer jobs is animal rescue, but Indo not get emotionally involved.


I have wondered if the personality shift I had a few years ago had something to do with damage caused by seizures rather than the conscious decision to stop hiding my Aspie traits.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> I wonder if seizures can turn you into an immoral person as well.....



is it immoral or incapable of seeing an action as immoral?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

snerg said:


> is it immoral or incapable of seeing an action as immoral?


She's not incapable of seeing it. Let's not get it twisted.

She specifically said she KNEW she would regret sucking off Bill Nye. That shows awareness.

But she enjoys giving oral, even on other men, and what hubby doesn't know won't hurt him.

Typical cheater rationalizations.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> It's been a year since I posted here and a lot has happened since my last thread. I'm still married to the same man, still dealing with the same problems, but there are some extenuating circumstances now.
> 
> Due in part to some of the responses I received from my last thread here, I did seek some medical help and being in Ontario, it took a good long time to get through the system. I had some of my meds adjusted, which helped my moods a bit, and I was referred to a diagnostic psychiatrist. That is a specialist who diagnoses a patient and puts together a treatment plan. She diagnosed me as high functioning Asperger's as well as having an attachment disorder. She changed some of my dosages, prescribed Clorazapam and Cognitive Behaviour Therapy, followed by talk therapy.
> 
> ...


*Do your H the consummate favor and just divorce him ~ no questions asked ~ and spare him all of the unneeded pain! That would allow you the unfettered freedom to continue to hop into all kinds of vans to satisfy all of your itching, insatiable womanly whims!

He deserves far, far better from what he sincerely believes to be a "loyal," committed, and devoted friend and wife!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Just a general question: If a doctor diagnosed a patient as a sociopath, would they actually tell the patient?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I think it's just evil to stay married to someone and treat them this way. If you really realize what you're doing is so horrible and you truly don't want to hurt your husband, why will you not end the marriage?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> If you really realize what you're doing is so horrible and you truly don't want to hurt your husband, *why will you not end the marriage?*





LadyOfTheLake said:


> She diagnosed me as high functioning Asperger's as well as having an *attachment disorder.*


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

OK so explain to me why people with these disorders can't overcome them and do the right thing when they know it's right?

I understand how people can do things because they're mentally ill, but what I don't understand is, if you've gotten to the point where you realize you're mentally ill and you realize you're doing something wrong and you know what you SHOULD do, why then do you not DO it?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> OK so explain to me why people with these disorders can't overcome them and do the right thing when they know it's right?
> 
> I understand how people can do things because they're mentally ill, but what I don't understand is, if you've gotten to the point where you realize you're mentally ill and you realize you're doing something wrong and you know what you SHOULD do, why then do you not DO it?


Same reason why obese people roll up to McDonald's when they are well aware it's keeping them fat.

Because they don't want to do any heavy lifting because its "difficult". In other words, lack of will.

It's SO much easier to just hide behind excuses and blame the illnesses for "controlling them".


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> Same reason why obese people roll up to McDonald's when they are well aware it's keeping them fat.
> 
> Because they don't want to do any heavy lifting because its "difficult". In other words, lack of will.
> 
> It's SO much easier to just hide behind excuses and blame the illnesses for "controlling them".


To be fair, her husband knows whats going on is wrong, he's the one being hurt by it, and he isn't filing for divorce, either.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

@LadyOfTheLake

Your life will continue to be a clusterfvck because you have psychopathic tendencies. You think very highly of yourself and you do not respect the knowledge of others. You refuse therapy insisting it is a long con, you refuse meds insisting they were prescribed in error and you expect others to meet your needs while you care little for theirs. You see people as a nuisance in general and only tolerate them if they have something you want. Your completely motivated by your needs being met by others. Your chief identifier is your callous and unemotional response to your behavior and how that affects others. You didn't enjoy your BJ interlude because it didn't give YOU what YOU were seeking, affirmation and validation. You admitted your van date left you cold because the response the scientist gave you was cold. You didn't react emotionally to how you hurt your husband. Logically, you know what you did hurt him, but emotionally, you can't feel his pain.

There is treatment for higher functioning psychopaths such as yourself. But since you are so superior you will not seek it, because you know better than they do.

I strongly urge you to leave your husband and children. Allow your children to be primarily raised by someone who can give them the love a child requires, guide them with loving attention toward THEIR best interest. Right now, you aren't capable of that. 

You may never be.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> Just a general question: If a doctor diagnosed a patient as a sociopath, would they actually tell the patient?


No. and when a doctor says attachment disorder it's another identifier as someone on the psychopathy scale. Attachment disorder means the patient has an inability to form close emotional attachments and instead they seek to have their needs met by others without regard to the other person's needs. Psychopathy.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

soccermom2three said:


> Just a general question: If a doctor diagnosed a patient as a sociopath, would they actually tell the patient?


I had the same exact thought.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Again, you have it wrong. I get the ego stroking from the other men. I get a thrill out of making them do what I want and say what I want. I love it when they act like puppets. It's like....I don't usually understand what people say and do, but I can use sex to make men do things and it all makes sense. Men will do literally anything to get laid. With that carrot dangling in front of them I can make them dance and then the world makes sense and I feel really really good.


K. Let's be really clear. This is sick. Not like name calling sick. Like actually really sick. Like illness sick. It looks an awful lot like your refusal to seek treatment is a rationalization so that you may remain sick in this way.

Not sure what your husband's shtick is. Anyone with a half an ounce of brains would drop you like a hot rock.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> @LadyOfTheLake
> 
> Your life will continue to be a clusterfvck because you have psychopathic tendencies. You think very highly of yourself and you do not respect the knowledge of others. You refuse therapy insisting it is a long con, you refuse meds insisting they were prescribed in error and you expect others to meet your needs while you care little for theirs. You see people as a nuisance in general and only tolerate them if they have something you want. Your completely motivated by your needs being met by others. Your chief identifier is your callous and unemotional response to your behavior and how that affects others. You didn't enjoy your BJ interlude because it didn't give YOU what YOU were seeking, affirmation and validation. You admitted your van date left you cold because the response the scientist gave you was cold. You didn't react emotionally to how you hurt your husband. Logically, you know what you did hurt him, but emotionally, you can't feel his pain.
> 
> ...



Much if your analysis is true. However, I AM medicated. I am on 3 different meds, one of which is at the max dose. I have been a guinea pig for drug experiments since I was a kid. I could fill a notebook with the different kinds, dosages, and side effects. So when I say no more, I'm taking a stand for my physical and yes, mental health. No more drugs. If you've never been on psych meds, you're in no position to judge. They fvck you up just as bad as any underlying condition.

I respect very few people. I don't actively disrespect or seek to harm anyone, I just don't think about them at all. Honestly, to me, humans exist as something to be suffered out of necessity. The vast majority of them anyway. A few are quite delightful.

My children are MINE. They are part me and no one will understand them like I do. Especially my eldest who is displaying many of my traits. That child is going to have a very difficult life. He has my personality but his father's soft heart. There is so much pain in store for him. I can't prevent what is coming to him but I will be able to walk beside him and hopefully explain things. He doesn't need a soft hand. He needs guidance. 

As for H, I am cognizant that he is hurting. We speak of it frequently. He explains his feelings, I listen, and try to understand. He does not want to separate. He says I am his person. He is a fixer. He needs someone to fix and take care of. I cannot be fixed, but he seems to need to try. He may very well wise up one day and want to leave and I will not stop him. But I won't leave my kids.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> No. and when a doctor says attachment disorder it's another identifier as someone on the psychopathy scale. Attachment disorder means the patient has an inability to form close emotional attachments and instead they seek to have their needs met by others without regard to the other person's needs. Psychopathy.


OP sounds very much like me ten years ago. About twelve years ago, I did have a psychologist tell me I was a sociopath. I'm pretty sure she was one too. 

I was heavily medicated as a child and was unable to feel much of anything from the time I was five to the time I was about 11 or 12 due to an idiot doctor who should have known better. Oddly enough, the massive amounts of medication that I was given caused deformities in my kidneys that later on in life allowed me to survive something that should have killed me.

as someone who grew up with practically no understanding of emotions, I can say that there is only one way to live a fulfilling life. 

Learn to love yourself. That means accepting your emotions, whatever they are, as no more important than the feeling of ice in your hand or wind on your face, and defining yourself by your actions. Do the things that make you a person that you would love. Simple as that. 

If you would not love and trust someone who would hurt you, then do not do anything that would hurt someone else. You do not have to understand why it would hurt them in order to choose not to do it. You just have to know what it is. 

If you would love someone who does things that make you feel good, then find out what makes your partner feel good and do those things. 

By doing so, you are choosing to be someone that you can be proud of. You will have no reason to question yourself, since your identity will be the product of your own choosing, rather than the product of the whims of your emotions. 

You do not have to like how it feels, nor do you have to even understand why you feel as you do. 

OP, your desire for control stems from your need for safety. If you can control people around you, then you can't be hurt. But, as you logically know, you cannot really control people. You can influence them, but you cannot make a choice for them. Until you can be in complete control of yourself, you likely will never be able to excercise the full extent of your influential abilities. 

It's a strange paradox... in order to gain the greatest ability to influence others, you will have to be able to control yourself. But, if you ever get to the point where you can completely control yourself, you will never again think that you can control others. You will simply look at yourself and decide what you can do to attempt to influence the behaviors of those around you. As you look at yourself and learn to control yourself, you will be surprised at just how much influential power you really have. 

In order to get there, you will have to let go of this idea that there is something inherently wrong with you. You can call yourself ignorant all day, but there is nothing inherently broken about you down to the core. At any point, you have the ability to choose your next move. That means that you have the ability to choose how the world sees you. 

Think about something... if I am such an amazing actor that I can convince everyone that I have such a high pain tolerance that I can take a root canal without anesthetic without so much as flinching, then wouldn't the whole world assume that I have an ungodly high pain tolerance? What if i we're to experience agony during one, but managed to put myself in a meditative trance that allowed me to show no external symptoms of pain? To the world I have a high pain tolerance. To me, I simply did some mental gymnastics to fool everyone. But in the end, the ability to DO those mental gymnastics is what everyone seems to define as a high pain tolerance!

How about if I am scared to death to jump out of a plane, but do some more mental gymnastics and imagine myself stepping off a low diving board into a pool? When everyone else sees it, they think I am not afraid to jump. In the end, they are absolutely correct, since I did in fact jump.

Let's say my wife has a destructive behavior that both terrifies me and angers me at the same time, while also leaving me feeling helpless to stop it. What if I decide to do some more mental gymnastics and imagine myself as a robot without feelings in order to figure out the thing that I can do that will scare her enough to stop the destructive behavior, and then do it, despite the fact that I am terrified? 

To everyone else, it seems that I was decisive and strong. I'm the only one who knows that I am terrified inside. And yet, the fact that I still did it is what defined me as decisive and strong. 

Does any of this make sense? 

The reason why psychologists use BCT is to get you to be more aware of why you do the things that you do. Your emotions are the number one driver of your actions. If you are aware of the emotions and how they drive your actions, then you can tweak your own environment in order to create situations where you will experience emotions that will drive you to choose actions that will produce a positive outcome in your own life. 

To be honest, I am very much against medications as anything other than a temporary tool. They give you the ability to make decisions in situations that might otherwise cause you to feel different emotions, but they do not change your ability to make those decisions. 

You can be scared **** less and still jump. I do it all the time. Not only that, you can get to the point where you are so used to fear that it doesn't even bother you to be afraid anymore. By that point, you will already know that the fear will not stop you from being exactly who you choose to be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Good lord, you have KIDS?!


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> OK so explain to me why people with these disorders can't overcome them and do the right thing when they know it's right?
> 
> I understand how people can do things because they're mentally ill, but what I don't understand is, if you've gotten to the point where you realize you're mentally ill and you realize you're doing something wrong and you know what you SHOULD do, why then do you not DO it?


It's not as simple as that. While my disorders are not exactly the same as the OP's, they are similar due to the fact that our brains are wired differently. Meds don't work. They can help with some underlying symptoms, but they can't change our way of thinking. Our disorders are not due to a chemical imbalance. Which is why medication doesn't work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> There is so much pain in store for him. I can't prevent what is coming to him but I will be able to walk beside him and hopefully explain things. He doesn't need a soft hand. He needs guidance.
> *************************************************
> But I won't leave my kids.


 I pity your kids, and from what I've read that you've written, you will do FAR more damage than good being the one giving guidance, but you're too narcissistic and arrogant to ever realize that, even after stating the boy has your traits. Sad!


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> Good lord, you have KIDS?!


Another decision/choice where I did not take all factors into consideration. It is difficult to know beforehand that one is not suited to parenthood. One would think that with my calm demeanor and ability to analyze situations and react with logic rather than emotions, I would do very well as a parent. And it's true, I do much better now with school aged and preteen children than I did with infants and toddlers. Those were extremely difficult years and the impetus for my husband getting a vasectomy.

To be fair, the choice to have children was made when I was still masking and pretending to be normal. Being married and having kids was the normal thing to do. So I did it. There was so much I did not know.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

pidge70 said:


> Hope1964 said:
> 
> 
> > OK so explain to me why people with these disorders can't overcome them and do the right thing when they know it's right?
> ...



I have a structural deformation in the temporal lobe. A very tiny black spot, a mere shadow on the MRI. It was only discovered a couple of years ago, but it supposedly the source of my epilepsy and Aspergers. That's the theory anyway. I'm treated for major depression, but I honestly think that those symptoms are caused by the stress of living in a world I can't understand and don't want to be a part of, rather than an organic chemical imbalance.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

pidge70 said:


> It's not as simple as that. While my disorders are not exactly the same as the OP's, they are similar due to the fact that our brains are wired differently. Meds don't work. They can help with some underlying symptoms, but they can't change our way of thinking. Our disorders are not due to a chemical imbalance. Which is why medication doesn't work.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OK, that makes sense, but whether it's via meds or some other method, you've (general you, not you specifically) discovered that you are doing something wrong. Once you make that discovery, what's involved in taking the next step and stopping your 'wrong' behaviour?

Is the desire to do the right thing what's lacking then? And if not, then my question still stands. Why does it take more than the realization of wrongdoing to stop the wrongdoing?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> OK, that makes sense, but whether it's via meds or some other method, you've (general you, not you specifically) discovered that you are doing something wrong. Once you make that discovery, what's involved in taking the next step and stopping your 'wrong' behaviour?
> 
> Is the desire to do the right thing what's lacking then? And if not, then my question still stands. Why does it take more than the realization of wrongdoing to stop the wrongdoing?


In my own experience, the biggest reason why I didn't change my behaviors was because I identified by my emotions. Since I could not control my emotions, I was unable to control who I was. 

That was the underlying belief that caused me to not change anything about my behavior. I didn't think of my behaviors as reflecting who I was, I saw them as a result of who I was, which, at the time, was defined by something I could not control: my emotions. This underlying fallacy made real change impossible. 

I sincerely believed that my emotions was "who I was". It wasn't until I was in a hospital listening to doctors announce my time of death that I realized that I am the only person who believes that my emotions define who I am. To everyone else, my actions defined who I was. To the doctors, I was a dead man. The only person on the planet who knew what I felt was me.

It took me nearly dying to realize that I can actually choose WHO I am.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

MJJEAN said:


> To be fair, her husband knows whats going on is wrong, he's the one being hurt by it, and he isn't filing for divorce, either.


I wish the husband would post a thread......

OP thinks she has it all figured out. She won't fix herself.

Maybe we can save the poor b*****d husband at least.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> I wish the husband would post a thread......
> 
> OP thinks she has it all figured out. She won't fix herself.
> 
> Maybe we can save the poor b*****d husband at least.


He wouldn't thank you or us for it.

I wouldn't have thanked anyone for trying to "save" me, either.

Save me from the love of my life?

I know. I know. Terribly messed up and all that... But it is what it is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope Shimmers (Jul 10, 2015)

soccermom2three said:


> Just a general question: If a doctor diagnosed a patient as a sociopath, would they actually tell the patient?


It depends. If the patient is an adult and responsible for their own care (ie, there isn't a power of attorney for health care decisions for that person, for whatever reason), then yes. It is just like any other diagnosis.


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## Hope Shimmers (Jul 10, 2015)

Honestly OP, I am going to take a slightly different stance on this than others have.

Obviously you can't be "diagnosed" on an internet forum, but if I had to take a very educated guess, I would not diagnose you as a sociopath. In some ways you meet the criteria, but the fact that you are here posting shows insight that you KNOW these behaviors are wrong, and true sociopaths just don't have that much insight or, frankly, any empathy. Certainly not enough to post a thread such as yours. 

I think that you are attention seeking, and you are getting lots of it so it's working. I think you like the shock effect of what you are saying in terms of how people react to you and reply to you. That is not sociopathic behavior IME. It seems like you go out of your way to say things that you know are going to generate a lot of responses and attention from people here. Sociopaths would not care about that type of thing.

That's it for me on the guessing of diagnoses. 

What I would say to you is that you consider spending more time thinking about what your husband and children need and less time thinking about what you want. Your husband sounds anything but stupid and I am sure he won't stay around if he feels he is being treated like sh*t. Then you will have lost your family. If that's all good for you, then hey, it is. That's on you.

That's the best advice I can give you.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I have a structural deformation in the temporal lobe. A very tiny black spot, a mere shadow on the MRI. It was only discovered a couple of years ago, but it supposedly the source of my epilepsy and Aspergers. That's the theory anyway. I'm treated for major depression, but I honestly think that those symptoms are caused by the stress of living in a world I can't understand and don't want to be a part of, rather than an organic chemical imbalance.


OK so lets look at this logically. You have brain damage. You should not be married. You need to separate yourself from your husband, give him a chance to find someone who is whole and who can help your child on an emotional level that you are just not capable of. Look at it like this way if you were blind you would not try to do something that required eyesight. In the same way you just can't support something that require the emotional intelligence that marriage does. As hard as this may be for you, though maybe it's not you don't have the skills to be a wife to anyone. So move on and live your life as you need to but being aware that you are operating with a disability.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

By the way no offense anyone who is diagnosed as a sociopath should not be giving out advice here except to other sociopaths. Such advice will be coming from a very skewed perspective.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> He wouldn't thank you or us for it.
> 
> I wouldn't have thanked anyone for trying to "save" me, either.
> 
> ...


Matt this woman reminds you of your wife? :|


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

sokillme said:


> By the way no offense anyone who is diagnosed as a sociopath should not be giving out advice here except to other sociopaths. Such advice will be coming from a very skewed perspective.


To whom are you referring?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

pidge70 said:


> To whom are you referring?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Anyone who is diagnosed at a sociopath 



> a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.


How could someone like this give good advice when it comes to realtionships? A person like this is going to give poor advice, unless it is advice pertaining specially to being a sociopath.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Re: Catharsis of Confesgsion*



sokillme said:


> Matt this woman reminds you of your wife? :|


 @sokillme 

Very much so. They are both High Functioning Asperger's.

In fact her thread really triggered me as it was very similar to our story back when we were younger. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sokillme said:


> Anyone who is diagnosed at a sociopath
> 
> 
> 
> How could someone like this give good advice when it comes to realtionships? A person like this is going to give poor advice, unless it is advice pertaining specially to being a sociopath.


My wife worked for several years as a psychologist. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

sokillme said:


> OK so lets look at this logically. You have brain damage. You should not be married. You need to separate yourself from your husband, give him a chance to find someone who is whole and who can help your child on an emotional level that you are just not capable of. Look at it like this way if you were blind you would not try to do something that required eyesight. In the same way you just can't support something that require the emotional intelligence that marriage does. As hard as this may be for you, though maybe it's not you don't have the skills to be a wife to anyone. So move on and live your life as you need to but being aware that you are operating with a disability.


I guess I shouldn't be in a relationship either since I was emotionally impaired growing up. And since I actually have suffered brain damage as well. 

What you just did was not give advice. You passed judgement. And you used a BS justification for your judgement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

sokillme said:


> By the way no offense anyone who is diagnosed as a sociopath should not be giving out advice here except to other sociopaths. Such advice will be coming from a very skewed perspective.


I disagree. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Much if your analysis is true. However, I AM medicated. I am on 3 different meds, one of which is at the max dose. I have been a guinea pig for drug experiments since I was a kid. I could fill a notebook with the different kinds, dosages, and side effects. So when I say no more, I'm taking a stand for my physical and yes, mental health. No more drugs. If you've never been on psych meds, you're in no position to judge. They fvck you up just as bad as any underlying condition.


I realize the use of most psychotropics is at best an educated guess. The brain can be retrained when one seeks equilibrium. Psychotropics can be an invaluable tool in retraining the brain. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences and I understand how that can turn you away from using those tools. I apologize if my wording caused you to feel judged for avoiding meds. Judging you was not my intention, challenging you to alter your stance was my intention.



> I respect very few people. I don't actively disrespect or seek to harm anyone, I just don't think about them at all. Honestly, to me, humans exist as something to be suffered out of necessity. The vast majority of them anyway. A few are quite delightful.


Most people on the psychopathy scale do not seek to harm anyone. But they all see no value in others unless that person meets a need, then the person is valued because they can meet a need, but not because of a believe in humanity.




> My children are MINE. They are part me and no one will understand them like I do. Especially my eldest who is displaying many of my traits. That child is going to have a very difficult life. He has my personality but his father's soft heart. There is so much pain in store for him. I can't prevent what is coming to him but I will be able to walk beside him and hopefully explain things. He doesn't need a soft hand. He needs guidance.


This is where you are wrong. @As'laDain wrote an excellent post with regard to self awareness and intentionality. You think you are self aware but without intentionality the awareness is meaningless. As'laDain intended to become a part of humanity. He sought ways to find value in others and he sought ways to feel as though he was a part of humanity. Because he intentionally sought this, he discovered a way to feel empathy and feeling empathy is what allows him to alter his behavior enough to form close, reciprocal emotional attachments. He actually cares about people. It is his ability to care about others and intentionally follow a course of behavior that adds to the positive experience of others, as welllas his own, that enables him to be a good parent who models behavior and coping skills to his children. 

You have no intentionality to become a part of humanity. This is not a result of self preservation, as many who seek to separate themselves from others. It is because you see no value in others. This is exactly what makes you an unfit parent. The behavior and attitude you model for your children do not, contrary to what you currently believe, teach them good coping skills. You are instead teaching them your attitude, which is quite poor, and your behavior, which is self serving.

Yes, your children are yours and if you could see beyond your own needs you would see that children do best when they are parented by someone who models positive behavior and positive coping skills. Can you honestly do this?



> As for H, I am cognizant that he is hurting. We speak of it frequently. He explains his feelings, I listen, and try to understand. He does not want to separate. He says I am his person. He is a fixer. He needs someone to fix and take care of. I cannot be fixed, but he seems to need to try. He may very well wise up one day and want to leave and I will not stop him. But I won't leave my kids.


Of course you are aware he is hurting. You have eyes and ears that work. But you don't feel his pain. You don feel pain in causing him pain. You feel justified because meeting your needs is all you understand. 

As'laDain described ways he was able to alter his perception. He sought to do this because he wanted to become a part of humanity and he wanted to become what he considers is an honorable person. He identified what makes a person honorable and he sought to alter himself, not to separate himself which is what you are doing.

Psychopaths can learn to alter their perception and become a more functioning member of society with good and honorable traits. But CBT therapy requires one to be open to intentionally changing their thinking patterns be recognizing what it is about them that needs to change. You eschew any hint of change because you feel superior and you feel superior because you lack empathy. You can learn empathy, but only if you want to.

I'm truly sorry about your brain anomaly. But having this anomaly does not give you a free pass to hurt others, which is what you are doing. Knowing you have this brain anomaly is simply a too, to understand why and once you understand why you can seek to alter your perceptions zeroing in on exactly how this affects you.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> I guess I shouldn't be in a relationship either since I was emotionally impaired growing up. And since I actually have suffered brain damage as well.
> 
> What you just did was not give advice. You passed judgement. And you used a BS justification for your judgement.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





> I have a structural deformation in the temporal lobe. A very tiny black spot, a mere shadow on the MRI. It was only discovered a couple of years ago, but it supposedly the source of my epilepsy and Aspergers. That's the theory anyway. I'm treated for major depression, but I honestly think that those symptoms are caused by the stress of living in a world I can't understand and don't want to be a part of, rather than an organic chemical imbalance.


What you just did is not read and then project my advice to OP onto you. OP literally has brain damage, or a "structural deformation". In your case I think you should not give advice because you are not reading the posts. JUST KIDDING.:laugh:

I stand by what I said about a Sociopath giving advice, it's like a color blind person giving painting advice. Though I am sure it is well-intentioned how can anyone with this problem even understand emotions let alone give advice about them. The one caveat I would give is that I think they could be the best people to give advice to others with the condition.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> My wife worked for several years as a psychologist.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And I am sure that people would be thrilled to know that there psychologist was a sociopath. I mean I can't even believe this is a question.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Cogito ergo sum. The ability to be self aware and to conceptualize abstract thought. You come here attempting to justify your vile behavior as a matter-of-fact consequence of your "condition". You declare that humanity, for the most part, is something you must "tolerate and endure" in your highly developed state of being yet your posts are replete with duplicity and contradiction. Interesting.

You state that you are above petty emotions and that you believe that no person can affect the emotions of another. If this is true then how is it possible that you suffer from abandonment issues? Assuming that you and your father are not the same person, how could his actions have affected you. Likewise, how could the actions of your AP scientist have caused you such anger. In fact, even the title of this thread implies that a release of emotion can be accomplished by exposing your misdeeds to your H and a group of strangers on the internet.

Additionally, you describe your disdain for people yet you voluntarily attend a college open house teeming with people? And contemplate going back to school again surrounding yourself with those you find contemptible? Your statements are irreconcilable and illogical.

You excuse using people under the guise of simply not caring yet is is you that was used by your AP for fellatio. Also, you find it disgusting that a man "finish" in your mouth. What is it that is disgusting? The seminal fluid? Are you aware that during the course of stimulation men secrete preseminal fluid along with the small amounts of urine remaining in the urethra? This you find tolerable? Or is it the fact that you want to exercise control over your "partners"? Incidentally, for a married woman the word should not be plural.

What I see in your posts is a self absorbed, ungrateful, inconsiderate, immature, manipulative child that was never taught discipline and that now refuses to operate within the boundaries of such. You see children are very much like wild stallions in that the have great potential, once harnessed. However, until the stallion is broken, there usefulness, as anything other than a spectation, is severely diminished. Fortunately for you children are blameless so you can therefore assuage your issues by placing the cause on something beyond your control. How convenient.

You have been graced with a H that seemingly cares for you a great deal and, as any spoiled child would do, you proceed to use, take for granted and treat as common that which an adult would find invaluable. I believe that you do indeed need a form of behavioral therapy called a spanking. You see, adults can be reasoned with, rationally, whereas children have not yet grown sufficiently in intellect to be able to understand and therefore need a more basic correlation between bad behavior and pain. 

Your user name does seem somewhat appropriate to your H's Merlin. What you must decide, yes you, is if you want to go on with this abhorrently childish behavior. Picking new toys when one no longer satisfies you, having blatant disregard for others, including your children and jeopardizing your family. If you wish to change then you must realize that you are not the center of all existence and that your needs and wants are no more important than anyone else's. You must also understand that contentment must first be found within because it is only once we realize this that life can offer us some happiness.

Currently you are doing a disservice to your family, your H and even to yourself and even though you seem to think quite highly of yourself you are treating that person with significant disrespect. Cogito ergo sum, consider it carefully.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sokillme said:


> And I am sure that people would be thrilled to know that there psychologist was a sociopath. I mean I can't even believe this is a question.


My wife is not a sociopath.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

sokillme said:


> What you just did is not read and then project my advice to OP onto you. OP literally has brain damage, or a "structural deformation". In your case I think you should not give advice because you are not reading the posts. JUST KIDDING.:laugh:
> 
> I stand by what I said about a Sociopath giving advice, it's like a color blind person giving painting advice. Though I am sure it is well-intentioned how can anyone with this problem even understand emotions let alone give advice about them. The one caveat I would give is that I think they could be the best people to give advice to others with the condition.


You wouldn't understand what it is like unless you could remember the process of learning emotions. You were just a young child when you learned empathy. Unless you remember the confusion, amd the constant shock as you were constantly reminded that things are not as you think them to be, then you probably won't be able to understand how a sociopath can merge into society and hold many successful and rewarding personal relationships. And who better to give advice than someone who had to study relationships as a scholar rather than learn them naturally as everyone else does? Their own emotions are not the basis of their advice.

To be honest though, you seem so narrow minded about this concept that it makes me wonder if you don't suffer a bit of psychopathy yourself. It seems that you know all that needs knowing when it comes to those who are usually deemed "broken". 

I would say that the ones who should not be giving advice are the ones who are still so hurt that they still trigger often. How do they know that their advice is not coming from their emotions, rather than their logic? When an embittered BS posts something particularly nasty and out of character, nobody blinks an eye. They understand why they are doing it, where they are coming from. 

But when someone with a social disorder does it, everyone loves to tell them that they are broken and should never be in a relationship with someone who loves them. Because they are too broken. 

In reality, the reason for your disdain is because you simply don't understand where they are coming from. You can't wrap your head around it. 

It's easier to call them evil than it is to try and understand something foreign. You should watch out for that in life. The second we put a name on something, we tend to never learn another thing about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> My wife is not a sociopath.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OK, then.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> You wouldn't understand what it is like unless you could remember the process of learning emotions. You were just a young child when you learned empathy. Unless you remember the confusion, amd the constant shock as you were constantly reminded that things are not as you think them to be, then you probably won't be able to understand how a sociopath can merge into society and hold many successful and rewarding personal relationships. And who better to give advice than someone who had to study relationships as a scholar rather than learn them naturally as everyone else does? Their own emotions are not the basis of their advice.
> 
> To be honest though, you seem so narrow minded about this concept that it makes me wonder if you don't suffer a bit of psychopathy yourself. It seems that you know all that needs knowing when it comes to those who are usually deemed "broken".
> 
> ...


Logic has very little to do with human emotions. I get that you have read and studied the concepts of emotions, that is very admirable. If however you are a true Sociopath you don't feel them, at lest not in the way most people do. Your perspective is very, very different that a person who is not afflicted with this condition. That is not a shot on you, it is just the truth. Would it be a shot if I said a blind man wouldn't be the person I go to for driving directions?

I am not calling anyone evil or being bitter. I told OP she should end the relationship because she doesn't have the ability to empathize with the cruelty she is inflicting on her family. She literately is missing a part of her brain. Most if not all of the response on the board agree with me. Again this has nothing to do with you. I don't know your situation. 

Lets just drop it, I said my peace you disagree.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

sokillme said:


> Logic has very little to do with human emotions. I get that you have read and studied the concepts of emotions, that is very admirable. If however you are a true Sociopath you don't feel them, at lest not in the way most people do. Your perspective is very, very different that a person who is not afflicted with this condition. That is not a shot on you, it is just the truth. Would it be a shot if I said a blind man wouldn't be the person I go to for driving directions?
> 
> I am not calling anyone evil or being bitter. I told OP she should end the relationship because she doesn't have the ability to empathize with the cruelty she is inflicting on her family. She literately is missing a part of her brain. Most if not all of the response on the board agree with me. Again this has nothing to do with you. I don't know your situation.
> 
> Lets just drop it, I said my peace you disagree.


I have several missing and/or scarred parts of my brain. on top of that, my brain is abnormal from development. that means practically nothing.

your advice that she walk away from relationships will do nothing for her at all. and her husband doesn't seem to want her gone either, so who is to say what is good for him?

by the way, sociopaths and psychopaths all feel the full range of normal emotions. the only thing that is different is that those emotions are triggered by different things than they are in most people.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> Cogito ergo sum. The ability to be self aware and to conceptualize abstract thought. You come here attempting to justify your vile behavior as a matter-of-fact consequence of your "condition".


I don't believe I've attempted to justify anything. I have no reason to. Many of my motives have been questioned and I answer as best I can. 




> You state that you are above petty emotions and that you believe that no person can affect the emotions of another. If this is true then how is it possible that you suffer from abandonment issues? Assuming that you and your father are not the same person, how could his actions have affected you. Likewise, how could the actions of your AP scientist have caused you such anger. In fact, even the title of this thread implies that a release of emotion can be accomplished by exposing your misdeeds to your H and a group of strangers on the internet.


I believe that the actions of adults shouldn't affect the emotional state of other adults. Turning that around to refer to child abandonment and neglect is a bit disingenuous. 
The scientist's actions made me angry. He frustrated me because he did not behave in the way I anticipated. I was not emotionally involved or upset with him. He was a tool to use to get what I wanted and the tool was malfunctioning. That was frustrating. 
In regards to catharsis, I find discussing such matters with people of polar opposite view points enlightening and it does ease my mind. I struggle greatly to understand my husband, especially in times like this. It causes me stress. Hearing from people like him helps, especially in this format where I can read words rather than speak or hear them. Written text is my preferred means of communication. 



> Additionally, you describe your disdain for people yet you voluntarily attend a college open house teeming with people? And contemplate going back to school again surrounding yourself with those you find contemptible? Your statements are irreconcilable and illogical.


A small rural country college is hardly "teeming". The class size of the course I'm contemplating is 15 students. Whilst I prefer my time spent alone and have difficulty functioning around others, I haven't yet become a hermit or shut in. It sounds appealing, but just isn't practical ?





> You excuse using people under the guise of simply not caring yet is is you that was used by your AP for fellatio. Also, you find it disgusting that a man "finish" in your mouth. What is it that is disgusting? The seminal fluid? Are you aware that during the course of stimulation men secrete preseminal fluid along with the small amounts of urine remaining in the urethra? This you find tolerable? Or is it the fact that you want to exercise control over your "partners"? Incidentally, for a married woman the word should not be plural.


I was fully aware that he was using me for his own ends. He is a middle aged man in a sexless marriage and he got off on the attention of a younger and conventionally attractive woman. That's what made him an easy target. I knew exactly what he wanted. That he used me doesn't bother me at all. Why would it? All humans use each other to meet their needs. They just sugar coat it with social rules and rites and refuse to acknowledge that all relationships are transactions. Which is neither good nor bad. It just is what it is. 
As for ejaculate, the taste and texture is a deal breaker for me. Plus I don't like contact with bodily fluids. If I don't think about it, it's not so bad, (I know it's a fallacy)but semen is hard to hide. It's pretty awful stuff. 


> What I see in your posts is a self absorbed, ungrateful, inconsiderate, immature, manipulative child that was never taught discipline and that now refuses to operate within the boundaries of such. You see children are very much like wild stallions in that the have great potential, once harnessed. However, until the stallion is broken, there usefulness, as anything other than a spectation, is severely diminished. Fortunately for you children are blameless so you can therefore assuage your issues by placing the cause on something beyond your control. How convenient.


I don't blame anyone or anything for me. I will EXPLAIN why I'm different, and there are several different reasons, but I don't assign blame. I am what I am and honestly, I think I have the advantage. I disagree.with the rules of human society so I ignore them. 

Those who don't play by the rules threaten the game. Cogito ergo sum


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I don't believe I've attempted to justify anything. I have no reason to. Many of my motives have been questioned and I answer as best I can.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so, I have to ask, are you here for mental stimulation only? 

obviously you don't have to play by any of societies rules. I tend to pick and choose which ones I will follow based on whether it will be good for me or not, or meet my goals or not. Do you love who you are, based on your actions?

think of your actions at the end of the day, and put them in a statement. "I am the kind of person who..." finish that statement with your actions. "... cheats on her husband" "...takes good care of her children" etc. 

would you trust someone like yourself?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Am I the only one who is creeped out by all this?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Am I the only one who is creeped out by all this?


why would you find it creepy?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I find sociopathy scary.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

As'laDain said:


> so, I have to ask, are you here for mental stimulation only?


I'm here to get a look at this situation from the other side. To calmly look at it through my husband's eyes, which is hard and inaccurate to do on my own and impossible with him. While I find the discourse here interesting, I have other ideas as to what counts as mentally stimulating.




> obviously you don't have to play by any of societies rules. I tend to pick and choose which ones I will follow based on whether it will be good for me or not, or meet my goals or not. Do you love who you are, based on your actions?


Interesting question. I can't say as though I've ever thought of it. Do I love who I am? 
I don't have an answer for that at the moment. I guess it requires some thought. While I can say I don't hate myself or have any strong negative emotion, it seems I do not have any positive ones either. But again, it's not something I have ever thought about before. 



> think of your actions at the end of the day, and put them in a statement. "I am the kind of person who..." finish that statement with your actions. "... cheats on her husband" "...takes good care of her children" etc.
> 
> would you trust someone like yourself?


I'm not sure what you are asking here. Are you attempting to shame me? I don't like the term "cheats". It doesn't make sense. I don't know how that word came to be used to describe these situations. It seems like a random word choice. But that's a tangent...

Would I trust someone like myself? Depends on the situation I guess. You can trust me with money, valuables, secrets. I've never stolen so much as a cent in my life. I'm brutally honest. Even in this situation. I told H what I wanted to do. I just didn't tell him before I actually went and did it. I did tell him after. It was the stress of having a secret that was eating me up. 

Would I trust someone like me? I don't trust anyone, ever. For anything. I'd prefer not to be the recipient of anyone else's trust, even if I am worthy.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Am I the only one who is creeped out by all this?


 Robotic.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Am I the only one who is creeped out by all this?


 @bandit.45

YOU'RE creeped out by it? Imagine how the f**k I feel?! 

Yeah, this does creep me out, even to the choice of AP. 

Older man in sexless marriage, seeks younger and very pretty lover who is already married. 

Blah! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

bandit.45 said:


> Am I the only one who is creeped out by all this?


Uber Creepy... I'm done with this one. Back to "normal" threads with VARs, Blame-shifting, and someone's wife getting touchy-feely with her personal trainer. Damn, those "other" infidelity boards are going to start talking about "us" if the thread doesn't drop off the first page soon. Let's make CWI great again!


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Am I the only one who is creeped out by all this?


Idk... when I read crap like this:



LadyOfTheLake said:


> he got off on the attention of a younger and conventionally attractive woman. That's what made him an easy target.


It just reeks of a very sad person looking for attention. Pity is the emotion I get, not creepiness.


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## DoneThinking (Aug 31, 2016)

Don't know if I'm helping but I feel a need to jump in for the Aspies who are not like "Lady" or Mrs. MattMatt. I was diagnosed at 56 and found the diagnosis as a relief. I knew I didn't think like other people and that I didn't feel or see things like other people and I had a skewed sense of humour. Cheating, don't think of, can't do it and I don't really notice when women are attracted to me or interested. Missed out on more than a few opportunities to indulge as a result. That is a problem I have, there are things I find it difficult to think of.

My emotional range is limited and I don't form attachments to people readily. I'm a teacher and give the impression of being understanding and empathetic, but I am none of those things. As it was explained to me, I am adaptive. I read faces and try to decide what the emotion is and then respond. I have a whole range of emotional responses that I don't really feel. I have coached for 28 years and while my teams have been successful and I have worked with some great kids, I get nothing emotional out of it. It was something I was asked to do, so I did it. Sad sort of.

Reading people, knowing what they are feeling and predicting responses is difficult. I will sometimes get it wrong.I suspect that's why "Lady" is so frustrated when people don't do the things she thinks they should or when things don't turn out as predicted. I have the same problem. I can't seem to manipulate people with any success. They are always being so unpredictable.

In addition we are prone to depression and any number of obsessions and phobias. 

My qualities are an interest in all things and I love to learn. I am loyal to a fault, commit and stay committed. I have strong beliefs and strong morals, even though I am not religious. I only have three degrees (added one recently). I haven't bothered to tell anyone outside my wife about them, because I enjoyed the challenge of doing them and not what they could do for my career. In fact I don't use my postgrad degrees at all. I do have a bit of an ego though. I am good at what I do and know it.

Sorry, just had to jump in.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I don't believe I've attempted to justify anything. I have no reason to. Many of my motives have been questioned and I answer as best I can.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is what gets people incarcerated, fined, or even shot! You OK with that ? Else you may have to become more of a hermit than you think! Are you ok with paying taxes ? And why not steal ? Nothing wrong with that, surely, in your world. How about pi$$ing in the street in somebody else's neighbourhood? Or roaming around naked when its warm enough? Or even pedofilia? All society's rules after all. You ignore any of these?


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

DoneThinking said:


> I read faces and try to decide what the emotion is and then respond. I have a whole range of emotional responses that I don't really feel.


I do this. I call it masking and thought I was the only one who did it. I choose which mask to wear to get through whatever social interaction I'm involved in by reading the other person and playing off their cues. Sometimes I get it very wrong. I don't always detect sarcasm or subtlety. 



> Reading people, knowing what they are feeling and predicting responses is difficult. I will sometimes get it wrong.I suspect that's why "Lady" is so frustrated when people don't do the things she thinks they should or when things don't turn out as predicted. I have the same problem. I can't seem to manipulate people with any success. They are always being so unpredictable.


Reading people and showing them what they want to see, saying what they want to hear, is second nature to me. I didn't even know I was doing it for many years. I find humans to be extremely predictable. I do get angry and frustrated when people behave unexpectedly, but it's mostly directed inward, at myself, for having misread the situation. I find it calming that I can reliably predict what people will say and do. Those who defy expectations unsettle me. 



> In addition we are prone to depression and any number of obsessions and phobias.


I think the depression is a by product of having to live in our society. It is draining. Myself, I am subject to short term obsessions. I don't have any phobias. 



> Sorry, just had to jump in.



Thank you for speaking up. For many years I thought I was the only person like this. I find it fascinating to read about others who function in a similar manner.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> LadyOfTheLake said:
> 
> 
> > I don't believe I've attempted to justify anything. I have no reason to. Many of my motives have been questioned and I answer as best I can.
> ...


There are human rules and then there are rules of nature. That would preclude pedophilia and other crimes against nature. Paying taxes makes sense since everyone benefits. Other rules I pick and choose which make sense and which ones are worth following. I did mean more of the unwritten social rules in my post, but I'm not a stickler for details in legality either. As long as I'm not hurting anyone, harming anything, or risking serious injury, I pretty much do as I please.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> NoChoice said:
> 
> 
> > OP,
> ...


If you are not attempting explain your behavior to be rational, if only to you, then why are you here? Are you here to boast? Or are your posts merely informative, simply spreading the news of your antics? 



LadyOfTheLake said:


> NoChoice said:
> 
> 
> > You state that you are above petty emotions and that you believe that no person can affect the emotions of another. If this is true then how is it possible that you suffer from abandonment issues? Assuming that you and your father are not the same person, how could his actions have affected you. Likewise, how could the actions of your AP scientist have caused you such anger. In fact, even the title of this thread implies that a release of emotion can be accomplished by exposing your misdeeds to your H and a group of strangers on the internet.
> ...


I fail to see how this statement is disingenuous. If you have not had this emotional detachment from birth then that would imply a learned behavior. It was also my intent to invoke thoughts of your own children and how your behavior will affect their lives as your parent's behavior has affected yours. If you do not wish the same existence for them that you are experiencing then it may be prudent to consider it. Have you considered how your son would feel were he to marry a woman just like you? Or how he may view you knowing that you performed fellatio on some random AP? However, if you are truly dispassionate about their future lives then it is of no concern to you and it will fall on your H, their father, to try and clean up the mess you have made.



LadyOfTheLake said:


> NoChoice said:
> 
> 
> > Additionally, you describe your disdain for people yet you voluntarily attend a college open house teeming with people? And contemplate going back to school again surrounding yourself with those you find contemptible? Your statements are irreconcilable and illogical.
> ...


You speak of practicality. How is it practical to gain knowledge if you do not intend to use it to benefit mankind. Will you not simply disregard most of what you learn as only being beneficial within established norms, which you operate outside of? Also, how is it practical to take a vow of commitment and then decide that those boundaries do not apply to you? How practical is it to expose children to behavior that could quite possibly forever alter their ability to experience any sort of normalcy in their lives? As to the term teeming, is not that relative to the situation. A small rural college may not be teeming when compared to a campus in New York but for someone who had such disdain for people it would seem to be.



LadyOfTheLake said:


> NoChoice said:
> 
> 
> > You excuse using people under the guise of simply not caring yet is is you that was used by your AP for fellatio. Also, you find it disgusting that a man "finish" in your mouth. What is it that is disgusting? The seminal fluid? Are you aware that during the course of stimulation men secrete preseminal fluid along with the small amounts of urine remaining in the urethra? This you find tolerable? Or is it the fact that you want to exercise control over your "partners"? Incidentally, for a married woman the word should not be plural.
> ...


I posit that you were the "target". You spoke earlier of being disingenuous. It angered you that your AP did not act and react as you imagined, is that not an effect? If all human interactions are sugar coated transactions, then may I ask how you are using your children to meet your needs?



LadyOfTheLake said:


> NoChoice said:
> 
> 
> > What I see in your posts is a self absorbed, ungrateful, inconsiderate, immature, manipulative child that was never taught discipline and that now refuses to operate within the boundaries of such. You see children are very much like wild stallions in that the have great potential, once harnessed. However, until the stallion is broken, there usefulness, as anything other than a spectation, is severely diminished. Fortunately for you children are blameless so you can therefore assuage your issues by placing the cause on something beyond your control. How convenient.
> ...


I would posit that you are not explaining your behavior but rather excusing it. You most definitely have the advantage, as does any spoiled child. You have no accountability, no responsibility and yet you reap the benefits of society. You take what you want and discard the rest, again, very convenient for you.



LadyOfTheLake said:


> Those who don't play by the rules threaten the game. Cogito ergo sum


Actually they threaten the fabric of society. It is interesting that you view it as a game. Monopoly is a game, life however, is not. To lose a game may be unpleasant but to lose at life.... You may continue to profess this mindset if it makes you feel vindicated, if it serves your purpose and the rest of us will strive to keep society together, as best we can, so that individuals such as you can be afforded the ability to meander through it leaving whatever damage and chaos in their wake that they so choose. 

Perhaps you will eventually mature to the point that you can see your behavior for what it is but it is highly doubtful. Most people aspire to leave the world a better place than when they arrived and to be better people in the end. Yours does seem to be an existence of self-convenience.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> There are human rules and then there are rules of nature. That would preclude pedophilia and other crimes against nature. Paying taxes makes sense since everyone benefits. Other rules I pick and choose which make sense and which ones are worth following. I did mean more of the unwritten social rules in my post, but I'm not a stickler for details in legality either. As long as I'm not hurting anyone, harming anything, or risking serious injury, I pretty much do as I please.


But you harmed your husband. See... you picked and chose the rules for the way you treated him, except, he wasn't in on that decision process. 

And this is where empathy enters the play. As I am making my rules for my conduct, how would those rules, of what I allow myself to do and not do, affect the man who I am supposed to love and cherish above all others?


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> LadyOfTheLake said:
> 
> 
> > There are human rules and then there are rules of nature. That would preclude pedophilia and other crimes against nature. Paying taxes makes sense since everyone benefits. Other rules I pick and choose which make sense and which ones are worth following. I did mean more of the unwritten social rules in my post, but I'm not a stickler for details in legality either. As long as I'm not hurting anyone, harming anything, or risking serious injury, I pretty much do as I please.
> ...



And there we have the crux of the problem. I don't have empathy. I am aware of that. Other people's feelings don't weigh in on my decision making process because I can't imagine them. I do try to predict other people's reactions. Usually I am correct. Sometimes, such as in this example, I get them woefully wrong. 

My H often asks me questions about my own feelings. How would I feel in such and such a situation. Would I be angry or upset if XYZ occurred. I can't answer these questions because I can't project a feeling into a thought. I feel nothing but confusion in answer to his questions. It is the same in day to day life. When I make a choice or decision, I don't consider the feelings of others because for all intents and purposes they do not exist to me. All I am concerned about is how people's reactions will effect me and how to elicit the least amount of kick back as possible. And again, sometimes I misjudge.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Hey so are you divorced yet?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Hey so are you divorced yet?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Hey so are you divorced yet?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And neither am I. For that matter. 

The problem is Gus, Ladyofthelake is like nobody you have ever met and her problems make my wife seem like a fluffy little kitty by comparison. 

Normal responses and answers are difficult to use in this case.

We need a completely new and different paradigm, here, I think?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> And neither am I. For that matter.
> 
> The problem is Gus, Ladyofthelake is like nobody you have ever met and her problems make my wife seem like a fluffy little kitty by comparison.
> 
> ...


I have some suggestions...

Sociopaths should be a) branded, b) sterilized, and c) not allowed to marry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> And there we have the crux of the problem. I don't have empathy. I am aware of that. Other people's feelings don't weigh in on my decision making process because I can't imagine them. I do try to predict other people's reactions. Usually I am correct. Sometimes, such as in this example, I get them woefully wrong.
> 
> My H often asks me questions about my own feelings. How would I feel in such and such a situation. Would I be angry or upset if XYZ occurred. I can't answer these questions because I can't project a feeling into a thought. I feel nothing but confusion in answer to his questions. It is the same in day to day life. When I make a choice or decision, I don't consider the feelings of others because for all intents and purposes they do not exisvt to me. All I am concerned about is how people's reactions will effect me and how to elicit the least amount of kick back as possible. And again, sometimes I misjudge.


I don't know if this has been talked about, and I'm far too lazy to go back and look, but have you and your husband talked about having an open relationship: where you can carry on with your other man, get whatever needs you have met, and your husband is free to go out a find a mistress or two?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> I have some suggestions...
> 
> Sociopaths should be a) branded, b) sterilized, and c) not allowed to marry.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hmm. Well Eugenics was experimented with....


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> We need a completely new and different paradigm, here, I think?


According to an article I read recently, the next Millennial generation will likely be to cheat on their partners more often! 
Studies indicate that the rise of anxiety with a side of narcissistic tendencies add in FOMO (fear of missing out) and the inability to withstand the mundane that is every day life and indeed marriage, oh and not forgetting the availability of online porn, this will be a challenge for couples. 

So I guess we will be seeing a few more sociopaths in the future. 

*source of article was Fabulous Magazine UK. 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> I have some suggestions...
> 
> Sociopaths should be a) branded, b) sterilized, and c) not allowed to marry.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hmm. Should we also lump in gays, Democrats, vegetarians, and lawyers?


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

MrsAldi said:


> According to an article I read recently, the next Millennial generation will likely be to cheat on their partners more often!
> Studies indicate that the rise of anxiety with a side of narcissistic tendencies add in FOMO (fear of missing out) and the inability to withstand the mundane that is every day life and indeed marriage, oh and not forgetting the availability of online porn, this will be a challenge for couples.
> 
> So I guess we will be seeing a few more sociopaths in the future.
> ...


This is absolutely true. As society continues on its path of devolution and our intellects revert back to a lesser developed state, the tendency to behave like children will most assuredly propagate since we will, quite literally, be reasoning and acting with the minds of children. Rational, reasonable behavior will not be possible.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> I have some suggestions...
> 
> Sociopaths should be a) branded, b) sterilized, and c) not allowed to marry.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hope your not serious...


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

If you aren't changing your ways, OP...how is confession ''cathartic?'' Just a question.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Deidre* said:


> If you aren't changing your ways, OP...how is confession ''cathartic?'' Just a question.


My wife felt better after she told me of her plan to have an affair.

Didn't make me feel better, but that wasn't the purpose behind it.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> And there we have the crux of the problem. I don't have empathy. I am aware of that. Other people's feelings don't weigh in on my decision making process because I can't imagine them. I do try to predict other people's reactions. *Usually I am correct. Sometimes, such as in this example, I get them woefully wrong*.
> 
> My H often asks me questions about my own feelings. How would I feel in such and such a situation. Would I be angry or upset if XYZ occurred. I can't answer these questions because I can't project a feeling into a thought. I feel nothing but confusion in answer to his questions. It is the same in day to day life. When I make a choice or decision, I don't consider the feelings of others because for all intents and purposes they do not exist to me. All I am concerned about is how people's reactions will effect me and how to elicit the least amount of kick back as possible. And again, sometimes I misjudge.


that wasn't the problem. you knew your husband would be hurt. you just don't understand why he would be hurt. the fact that he would be hurt was not important to you. so, you predicted his reactions more or less correctly. you just didn't care.

try something. instead of trying to understand WHY someone would react emotionally, try just looking at their face and search your memory for a time when you felt what they are expressing. for instance, whenever I get a chance to go pick up my daughter from school, her face lights up. growing up, i was never excited and happy to see either of my parents pick me up from school, even though they rarely did. so, i cant really understand the excitement. but, what i do know is that her face lights up in the same way mine did after i finally found a tiny rare fish in a secluded shallow stream, after searching for it for years. it felt _really_ good to find that little fish, and that was the kind of face my daughter shows when i pick her up from school. so, she feels the same way about seeing me as i did when finding that fish. i don't have to understand the why in order to know how it feels. 


i know what true apathy feels like. good luck remembering _anything_ if you experience true apathy. if you are able to remember anything at all, you are not apathetic. and if you are not apathetic, you are not without emotion. 

and if you are not without emotion, then you are not without the ability to empathize.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

As'laDain said:


> I hope your not serious...


*you're
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

*Deidre* said:


> If you aren't changing your ways, OP...how is confession ''cathartic?'' Just a question.


It probably is for a lot of people, but only for those capable of feeling guilt, remorse, etc.

Which means it _can't_ have been for her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

As'laDain said:


> I hope your not serious...


Remember that you're talking about people so hopelessly and pathologically broken that they're incapable of either putting a stop to their reckless behaviors (or even understanding why they're bad to begin with) or empathizing w/ those left behind in their wake.

Still, was I being serious?

No.

But just _barely_.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> My wife felt better after she told me of her plan to have an affair.
> 
> Didn't make me feel better, but that wasn't the purpose behind it.


The sand must taste great on that side of the pond.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> Hmm. Should we also lump in gays, Democrats, vegetarians, and lawyers?


I have no beef w/ homosexuals or vegetarians, at least those that aren't militantly so.

:lol: :rofl:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> The sand must taste great on that side of the pond.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Stop it, Gus. 

You are not helping. Really.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> It probably is for a lot of people, but only for those capable of feeling guilt, remorse, etc.
> 
> Which means it _can't_ have been for her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yea, I guess cathartic in this sense, is just that the OP felt a sense of relief. The thing is, that it takes a codependent person to tolerate a narcissist. A person who has high esteem and self respect would never tolerate a narcissist, and a narcissist wouldn't be attracted to someone who isn't willing to tolerate their crap. Her husband is codependent, and as long as he 'hangs in there' and keeps thinking that if he gets a divorce, he is somehow a failure in life, then the relationship will go on. But, it's not a relationship in the mutual respect sense of the word, it's just what typically plays out when it comes to a narcissist.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Stop it, Gus.
> 
> You are not helping. Really.


With the exception of being a moderator, it's not really your place to judge whether he's helping or not. He's saying what many are thinking, but won't put it out there.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

I don't understand your comnent about why should this hurt him. You know it will hurt him so don't do it. 

If I put a fork into an electrical socket, and place a voltage meter in the other showing their is in fact current in the sockets, what more do I need to know about electricity not to grab it with my bare hand? 

Next: why can't your husband be a boy toy for you from time to time? Why can't you be his girl toy from time to time? Why don't each of you create a private email account for each other's use only?


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

One other point: if he gets involved with another woman he will leave you for her. Period it is who he is.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> Remember that you're talking about people so hopelessly and pathologically broken that they're incapable of either putting a stop to their reckless behaviors (or even understanding why they're bad to begin with) or empathizing w/ those left behind in their wake.
> 
> Still, was I being serious?
> 
> ...


I'm talking about people who are not much different than me. I made a choice several years ago, that I would no longer allow emotions to have any say in my actions. I would be driven by my goals rather than the whims of emotion. 

I don't let fear, frustration, or any other negative emotion, stop me from doing what I need to do to accomplish my goals. and I don't let myself get distracted by positive emotions either. I would be exactly who I wanted to be regardless of my emotional state.

I used to absolutely hate people. it made my skin crawl just being around them. I had zero empathy for them. to me, people did nothing but use each other, constantly, whether they would admit it or not. and they blamed their emotions on each other constantly. I thought they were all incredibly stupid and vile. I was diagnosed as a sociopath as a young adult.

and yet, I was capable of change when I found the proper motivation.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Rubix Cubed said:


> With the exception of being a moderator, it's not really your place to judge whether he's helping or not. He's saying what many are thinking, but won't put it out there.


I am uniquely qualified as a moderator and as someone who is married to an Aspie to point out when a fellow TAM member is not being helpful. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

As'laDain said:


> I'm talking about people who are not much different than me. I made a choice several years ago, that I would no longer allow emotions to have any say in my actions. I would be driven by my goals rather than the whims of emotion.
> 
> I don't let fear, frustration, or any other negative emotion, stop me from doing what I need to do to accomplish my goals. and I don't let myself get distracted by positive emotions either. I would be exactly who I wanted to be regardless of my emotional state.
> 
> ...


This key unlocks many doors.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

JohnA said:


> *I don't understand your comnent about why should this hurt him*. You know it will hurt him so don't do it.
> 
> If I put a fork into an electrical socket, and place a voltage meter in the other showing their is in fact current in the sockets, what more do I need to know about electricity not to grab it with my bare hand?
> 
> Next: why can't your husband be a boy toy for you from time to time? Why can't you be his girl toy from time to time? Why don't each of you create a private email account for each other's use only?


its the mistaken belief that people feel only what they want to feel. believe it or not, I used to justify my own emotions in such a subtle and powerful way that I believed the rationalizations to be truth. if I was frustrated or hurt, it was because I had set myself up for failure. 

truth is, I had no more control over my emotions than anyone else did, I simply _thought_ I did. the biggest actual difference between me and everyone else is that I respond emotionally to different things than most people do. i used to have an ingrained habit of discrediting the emotions of others because it wasn't how i would respond. i used to think that everyone was like me, and that those "inappropriate" emotions they were showing were just tools for manipulation. 

thinking back on it, it seems kinda stupid. i used to think that people were incredibly predictable, extremely so. and that made them easy to manipulate, or at least i told myself. as OP has demonstrated though, its an illusion. she will always face such frustrations so long as she thinks she can manipulate others.

ironically, the only people who are the most predictable are the ones who think they can control everyone else. i can just about guarantee you that if OP finds something that causes her a thrill or a rush, she will pursue it without fail and will do whatever she can to get it. its extremely predictable. 

with most people, they question themselves. they question consequences of their actions, the morality of it. i only questioned the consequence of my actions. never the morality of it. 

to be honest, i still don't question the morality of my actions. i have just decided that i will love people and try to empower them to get the most out of their lives. i decided that for one simple selfish reason: i want to be someone i love. and, since i do not believe that people are ever inherently different at the core of their being, i could not fathom loving myself if i don't love others as well. either all people represent something that is worth loving or no person is worth loving. including myself. if i choose to love people, then i will just have to assume my actions are moral.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

As'laDain said:


> I'm talking about people who are not much different than me. I made a choice several years ago, that I would no longer allow emotions to have any say in my actions. I would be driven by my goals rather than the whims of emotion.
> 
> I don't let fear, frustration, or any other negative emotion, stop me from doing what I need to do to accomplish my goals. and I don't let myself get distracted by positive emotions either. I would be exactly who I wanted to be regardless of my emotional state.
> 
> ...


So you admit to feeling emotion, though. I rarely do. I actively pick and choose which ones I think I have to portray in order for life to run along smoothly. Sometimes I feel emotions I can't identify and this is distressing, not only for me but those around me because it makes me difficult to be around. These are obviously negative, but thankfully short termed and I quickly forget them. As far as I am concerned an emotion is just a chemical reaction in the brain and on that can be faked or triggered on purpose in others. They are nature's way of making sure we procreate and then don't kill each other and wipe out the species. 

I also think that the majority of people are stupid and vile. They don't have to be, they are by choice. Due to the Aspergers, I have extremely heightened senses. People stink. They are loud and obnoxious and totally unaware of themselves. I can walk into a building and SMELL the people. It is disgusting. I could go on an on about modern society's self induced state of ignorant bliss and the West's self congratulatory ethno-centrality but I'd never stop:wink2:

I too am goal oriented. When I have an objective, I am unstoppable. Luckily, I rarely get interested enough in anything to exert that kind of energy. 

I find peace in Nature. I am a naturalist and I spend a great deal of time alone in the wild. I have an unusual bond with animals, even wild ones. The college course I am looking at will enhance my wilderness skills, along with some science, photography, and self rescue skills. I hope that this course and the contacts and resources I already have will give me something more positive to do in the future. Keeping my mind occupied is key. If I am bored I will find trouble and the easiest form of trouble for me is men. 

As far as motivation to change, I don't see how that is possible. I am what I am. I cannot be what I am not. I spent half my life as a fish trying to climb a tree. I've figured out who and what I am now and I don't belong in the trees. I realize I need to change my actions and that I have to be more considerate and pay more attention to the effects of my decisions. I'm still learning how to live the way I want and not cause unpleasant repercussions. It's a very fine line.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

As'laDain said:


> its the mistaken belief that people feel only what they want to feel. believe it or not, I used to justify my own emotions in such a subtle and powerful way that I believed the rationalizations to be truth. if I was frustrated or hurt, it was because I had set myself up for failure.
> 
> truth is, I had no more control over my emotions than anyone else did, I simply _thought_ I did. the biggest actual difference between me and everyone else is that I respond emotionally to different things than most people do. i used to have an ingrained habit of discrediting the emotions of others because it wasn't how i would respond. i used to think that everyone was like me, and that those "inappropriate" emotions they were showing were just tools for manipulation.



Perception is reality. Everyone sees the world, and everyone else's worlds, through the veil of their own perceptions and biases. My reality IS reality and it is shaped by my own inner world. Same with everyone else. That's why humans can't get along. Everyone expects the whole population to share an integral experience. And that is impossible. 




> thinking back on it, it seems kinda stupid. i used to think that people were incredibly predictable, extremely so. and that made them easy to manipulate, or at least i told myself. as OP has demonstrated though, its an illusion. she will always face such frustrations so long as she thinks she can manipulate others.


I've proven I CAN manipulate others. I'm not exactly proud of it, but I consider it a survival skill. I've gotten myself a place to live when I was homeless, a job, other needs filled, all by making people think it was their own idea to go along with what I wanted. "When needs must, the devil drives". I don't know when I learned that people can be used like game pieces, but I think it was in childhood. It wasn't a conscious lesson, it just happened. And the skill has come in handy many times. Now, it's just second nature and I like it. If you think you aren't being manipulated by someone every single day, you are hopelessly naive. The world is a giant chessboard and most people are pawns. 



> ironically, the only people who are the most predictable are the ones who think they can control everyone else. i can just about guarantee you that if OP finds something that causes her a thrill or a rush, she will pursue it without fail and will do whatever she can to get it. its extremely predictable.


This is true. Like I said, once I have an objective or goal, I'm unstoppable. 



> with most people, they question themselves. they question consequences of their actions, the morality of it. i only questioned the consequence of my actions. never the morality of it.


Exactly. I am not bothered by self doubt or any of the above. Rather, if I stop to question an action it is more of a cost/benefit analysis. What do I stand to gain vs what could I lose? Or more often, how badly will the possible injury hurt? 



> to be honest, i still don't question the morality of my actions. i have just decided that i will love people and try to empower them to get the most out of their lives. i decided that for one simple selfish reason: i want to be someone i love. and, since i do not believe that people are ever inherently different at the core of their being, i could not fathom loving myself if i don't love others as well. either all people represent something that is worth loving or no person is worth loving. including myself. if i choose to love people, then i will just have to assume my actions are moral.


I was raised in a super strict Christian sect and the whole love thy neighbour and brotherly love was a huge sticking point. I get the social aspect of it, and how treating people kindly and not holding grudges makes for a smooth running society, but the focus on actually loving people and performing acts of service made me feel slightly nauseated and deeply uncomfortable. It is something I am not capable of.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

I am naive, and I readily admit it, but I refuse to believe that there are actually people in this world who believe and act the way you do.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I realize I need to change my actions and that I have to be more considerate and pay more attention to the effects of my decisions. I'm still learning how to live the way I want and not cause unpleasant repercussions. It's a very fine line.


You're not learning anything. You're still married.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

LOTL is your husband staying with you or is he seeking divorce?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> So you admit to feeling emotion, though.* I rarely do.* I actively pick and choose which ones I think I have to portray in order for life to run along smoothly. Sometimes I feel emotions I can't identify and this is distressing, not only for me but those around me because it makes me difficult to be around. These are obviously negative, but thankfully short termed and I quickly forget them. As far as I am concerned an emotion is just a chemical reaction in the brain and on that can be faked or triggered on purpose in others. They are nature's way of making sure we procreate and then don't kill each other and wipe out the species.
> 
> .


So when you actively chose to cheat on your husband with another man, that had nothing to do with your emotional needs not being met by your husband; because if you have no emotions, then it follows you have no emotional needs. Correct? 

So all I can guess by what you have told us, is that your motivation for seeking out an affair was purely for sexual satisfaction...to scratch an itch with some strange man because for whatever reason your husband was not cutting the mustard for you.... or because you were satisfying a primal urge to begin mating with as many male humans in order to insure you are impregnated by a male with the most attractive genetic makeup? So essentially, your reptile (autonomic) brain that controls primal drives is what made you do this, and that you have no control whatsoever over your base instincts? 

So if you are having these hookups for nothing more than sexual curiosity or biological mandate, you can't possibly promise your husband you won't go out and do it again? Because you are driven by your primal drives and have no control over them. Am I reading you correctly?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> As far as motivation to change, I don't see how that is possible. I am what I am. I cannot be what I am not. I spent half my life as a fish trying to climb a tree. I've figured out who and what I am now and I don't belong in the trees. I realize I need to change my actions and that I have to be more considerate and pay more attention to the effects of my decisions. *I'm still learning how to live the way I want and not cause unpleasant repercussions.* It's a very fine line.


But what you need to understand, is that NONE of us live the way we want. Some of us get closer to that than others, but life and the world dictate a large portion of how we live. If living the way you want means not being sexually monogamous and not being sexually exclusive with your husband, then you need to divorce him.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

TX-SC said:


> I am naive, and I readily admit it, but I refuse to believe that there are actually people in this world who believe and act the way you do.


I have seen people like this. One is a relative of mine (nephew). He exists for one reason only - self gratification. With no regard for anyone else. No regret or feelings for the pain he inflicts on others.

He has absolutely zero empathy for others and he will continue along this path the rest of his life. He continually manipulates others to get what he wants.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Perception is reality. Everyone sees the world, and everyone else's worlds, through the veil of their own perceptions and biases. My reality IS reality and it is shaped by my own inner world. Same with everyone else. That's why humans can't get along. Everyone expects the whole population to share an integral experience. And that is impossible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the whole acts of service thing never made sense to me either, until I realized that people seem to struggle with guilt, shame, feelings of inadequacy, etc. I never realized that before. it seems dumb now, but truth is, people often never come close to their full potential because they simply convince them selves that it is impossible. isn't that sad? it seems such a waste. acts of service, from my own reflections on the puzzle, seem to be a way for people to tell other people that they are worth caring for. I understand this is a foreign concept to you. why on earth should you care about someone elses emotional well being? after all, they are just as vile as everyone else, or are choosing to remain stupid and naïve, right? so, why does it seem so important to others? can you fathom what it is that they get out of it?

here is a question for you: what does joy feel like?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> *So when you actively chose to cheat on your husband with another man, that had nothing to do with your emotional needs not being met by your husband; because if you have no emotions, then it follows you have no emotional needs. Correct? *
> 
> So all I can guess by what you have told us, is that your motivation for seeking out an affair was purely for sexual satisfaction...to scratch an itch with some strange man because for whatever reason your husband was not cutting the mustard for you.... or because you were satisfying a primal urge to begin mating with as many male humans in order to insure you are impregnated by a male with the most attractive genetic makeup? So essentially, your reptile (autonomic) brain that controls primal drives is what made you do this, and that you have no control whatsoever over your base instincts?
> 
> So if you are having these hookups for nothing more than sexual curiosity or biological mandate, you can't possibly promise your husband you won't go out and do it again? Because you are driven by your primal drives and have no control over them. Am I reading you correctly?


the ironic thing is that the bolded part is in contradiction with the rest of it. and yet, you paint an accurate picture.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

TX-SC said:


> I am naive, and I readily admit it, but I refuse to believe that there are actually people in this world who believe and act the way you do.


you may want to watch this. its an eerily accurate example of how I used to think. 

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/what-sociopaths-reveal-to-us-about-the-existence-of-god


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I've proven I CAN manipulate others. I'm not exactly proud of it, but I consider it a survival skill. I've gotten myself a place to live when I was homeless, a job, other needs filled, all by making people think it was their own idea to go along with what I wanted. "When needs must, the devil drives". I don't know when I learned that people can be used like game pieces, but I think it was in childhood. It wasn't a conscious lesson, it just happened. And the skill has come in handy many times. Now, it's just second nature and I like it. If you think you aren't being manipulated by someone every single day, you are hopelessly naive. The world is a giant chessboard and most people are pawns.
> .


But you did get manipulated by your affair partner. Or, suffice it to say, you manipulated each other for sexual gratification. 

Do you manipulate your husband to get what you want? Did you manipulate him in order to make time to see and have sex with your AP? Did he deserve to be manipulated? 

And I agree with you that we are all manipulated every day. But don't you think, from your objective knowledge of what marriage is supposed to be, that you and your husband should abstain from manipulating each other?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

As'laDain said:


> I'm talking about people who are not much different than me. *I made a choice* several years ago, that I would no longer allow emotions to have any say in my actions. I would be driven by my goals rather than the whims of emotion.
> 
> I don't let fear, frustration, or any other negative emotion, stop me from doing what I need to do to accomplish my goals. and I don't let myself get distracted by positive emotions either. I would be exactly who I wanted to be regardless of my emotional state.
> 
> ...


It's the sections in bold above that has me thinking that you were misdiagnosed.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Rubix Cubed said:


> With the exception of being a moderator, it's not really your place to judge whether he's helping or not. He's saying what many are thinking, but won't put it out there.


To be fair, he may have been speaking from a more personal perspective.



MattMatt said:


> Stop it, Gus.
> 
> You are not helping. Really.


Respectfully, Matt, do you _honestly_ expect that NO ONE is going to respond when you retell that specific portion of your story over and over and over?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> To be fair, he may have been speaking from a more personal perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> Respectfully, Matt, do you _honestly_ expect that NO ONE is going to respond when you retell that specific portion of your story over and over and over?


In truth I* rarely* repeat it. Certainly not "over and over and over."

And now if asked for my story I take it off board due to the sensitivities of some members.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> *In truth I rarely repeat it.* Certainly not "over and over and over."
> 
> And now if asked for my story I take it off board due to the sensitivities of some members.


When measured against 17,000+ posts?

Sure.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> When measured against 17,000+ posts?
> 
> Sure.


This is turning into a threadjack.

Let's not do that.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> This is turning into a threadjack.
> 
> Let's not do that.


Agreed.

Apologies, everyone.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Okay, back on target. Stay on target.



LadyOfTheLake said:


> *I believe that the actions of adults shouldn't affect the emotional state of other adults*. Turning that around to refer to child abandonment and neglect is a bit disingenuous.
> *The scientist's actions made me angry.* He frustrated me because he did not behave in the way I anticipated. I was not emotionally involved or upset with him. He was a tool to use to get what I wanted and the tool was malfunctioning. That was frustrating.


How do you reconcile those two statements I bolded?

And from another post:



LadyOfTheLake said:


> Reading people and showing them what they want to see, saying what they want to hear, is second nature to me. I didn't even know I was doing it for many years. I find humans to be extremely predictable. *I do get angry and frustrated when people behave unexpectedly, but it's mostly directed inward, at myself, for having misread the situation.* I find it calming that I can reliably predict what people will say and do. Those who defy expectations unsettle me.


Let me give this a try. Your husband expected fidelity from you, because that's what marriage vows mean. When you did not honour your word there, he felt hurt and angry. At you, for failing to uphold your vow, and at himself, for expecting better of you, and for being unworthy of a wife's fidelity.

You said that you do not steal. (I am not going back to find that post again, sorry) Yet more than just material things can be stolen. By cheating, you stole your husband's peace of mind. You stole time and focus from him. And your affair partner scientist guy, by not fulfilling the expectations you had of him, stole the gratification you had expected to feel.

I would hazard that the tool was not malfunctioning at all. You merely misunderstood how the tool is supposed to be used. The same could be said of your husband. He is a tool you are using, and you are using him incorrectly.

As for your children, recall that nurture is as powerful as nature. You may think your parenting is fine, that because they are similar to you, it is appropriate for you to teach them what you have learned. But how do you know that it is not your influence that has rendered them similar to you, and you could have done irreparable damage to them compared to how they could have been raised by someone else to be empathetic and generous?

You say you prefer the company of animals. To me, it sounds like you are treating your children like animals to be trained, instead of raised to be fully human.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> It's the sections in bold above that has me thinking that you were misdiagnosed.



why? are you so certain that a sociopath is incapable of change?
have you ever experienced something so dramatic that it changed the way you saw everything?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

As'laDain said:


> why? are you so certain that a sociopath is incapable of change?
> have you ever experienced something so dramatic that it changed the way you saw everything?


Yep.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Here is the thing, if you were raised in some backwoods, remote area with barely any interaction with society, then yeah, I could get that you don't "understand" why your husband is upset. But you don't, you've grown up in a civilized country with societal rules and morals pretty much displayed in front of you for your entire life. I don't see a reason to understand the why of other's feelings, just know that it is what it is and make the moral choice to do the right thing. To be honest, the, "I have this or that affliction" it's just an excuse for bad behavior. Many people live through some really bad stuff and overcome it. Be strong and try to do the same.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> *I believe that the actions of adults shouldn't affect the emotional state of other adults*. Turning that around to refer to child abandonment and neglect is a bit disingenuous.
> *The scientist's actions made me angry.* He frustrated me because he did not behave in the way I anticipated. I was not emotionally involved or upset with him. He was a tool to use to get what I wanted and the tool was malfunctioning. That was frustrating.





> How do you reconcile those two statements I bolded?


I see the inconsistency there and I will try to explain it. The scientist's actions frustrated me and made me angry, yes, but I was angry at myself. I felt a slight annoyance with him, but otherwise nothing changed. I was angry at myself for not being able to figure him out, for not doing it right. Even thinking about it now gets me frustrated. It's like leaving a puzzle unfinished. I CAN'T do that. I HAVE to solve it or it will drive me mad.
Now in the van afterwards, I felt disgust and disappointment, but again, they were feelings directed at myself. His actions were practically meaningless.



> Let me give this a try. Your husband expected fidelity from you, because that's what marriage vows mean. When you did not honour your word there, he felt hurt and angry. At you, for failing to uphold your vow, and at himself, for expecting better of you, and for being unworthy of a wife's fidelity.


I can clearly see that he his hurting and he says he feels betrayed. I can understand that on one level. He expected one sort of behaviour and got another. I don't understand how my actions make him feel bad about himself or unworthy or any of that. What I did had absolutely nothing to do with him. I have to make him realize that but I don't know how. I think I make things worse when I try. 



> You said that you do not steal. (I am not going back to find that post again, sorry) Yet more than just material things can be stolen. By cheating, you stole your husband's peace of mind. You stole time and focus from him. *And your affair partner scientist guy, by not fulfilling the expectations you had of him, stole the gratification you had expected to feel.*


That is interesting insight. I did steal H's peace of mind. That is very clear and very regrettable. I do not like seeing him like this and that idea could provide incentive against further missteps. 
The bolded part explains exactly what happened with the scientist.



> I would hazard that the tool was not malfunctioning at all. You merely misunderstood how the tool is supposed to be used. The same could be said of your husband. He is a tool you are using, and you are using him incorrectly.


Agreed



> As for your children, recall that nurture is as powerful as nature. You may think your parenting is fine, that because they are similar to you, it is appropriate for you to teach them what you have learned. But how do you know that it is not your influence that has rendered them similar to you, and you could have done irreparable damage to them compared to how they could have been raised by someone else to be empathetic and generous?


I don't WANT them to be like so called "normal" people. I despise most of society so it would follow that I don't want my kids growing up acting like mindless sheep. I like that they are being taught to question ideas and standards and think for themselves. They stand up for themselves. But they also know how to go with the flow and blend in when needed. I can't stand mouthy brats








It's always been my opinion that people put more time, effort, and money into training their dogs than they do their children. Hence.....our modern youth.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> Yep.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


if you look, you will find all kinds of stories all over the internet of sociopaths who changed their ways. in pretty much every one, you can identify the turning point in their lives as a change in the way they _think_. i am no different. OP _could_ be no different, although i would say that from her responses, she still has the old way of thinking, though she seems to be trying to learn more about how people think. i can almost guarantee you that the motivation for that is to better be able to achieve her goals. unfortunately, she seems to still be chasing the fleeting thrills and feelings. the concept of real joy seems lost on her. the joy of waking up in the morning and knowing that, regardless of how much **** you are in, its going to be a great day because you're going to enjoy it anyway. the joy of knowing that life is absolutely slammed full of opportunities to do something that will last beyond yourself. 

An interesting thing happens when people change the way they think. everything seems different. everything has different meaning. not because of some fundamental change in perception, but rather the thinking. its the approach in the mind that changes it. something that we can actually control. 

here is another story where the guy says the same thing i do. that even a sociopath can choose to be different. Sociopath World: Recovering sociopath

high functioning sociopaths learn to manipulate themselves in much the same way they manipulate people. for instance, i never could get myself to run longer than about 20 miles until a buddy of mine dropped me off over 30 miles away from home and drove off before i knew what he was doing. from then on, i put myself into positions where i had no choice but to run the distances i decided i was going to run. because it works, it made me do it.

i read all kinds of misconceptions on the internet about sociopathy. some of it is true, like the bit about them being able to emulate emotions well enough that people believe them. likewise, i have been called a "facial expressionist" before. in just a number of seconds, i can run through a range of emotions on my face that seem so incredibly real to people, and that shifts so fast, that it leaves their head reeling. i can go from polar opposites faster than you can take a breath. but, its not an emotional response. its an emotional expression. for that brief instant, i do feel rage, joy, embarrassment, compassion. but, that is because i am expressing it. at some point in my life, i did learn what those felt like, and i access those emotional memories like a codex. a lot of people like to say that those emotions are not real. well, if they are not real, then a person cannot choose to be happy. if an emotion expressed is not a real emotion then the dumbest thing one can tell another to do is to "be happy". 

the whole thing about sociopaths not feeling anxiety is false. they do feel anxiety, just not from thinking about possible consequences of their actions. primarily because they dont think about the consequences. they feel anxiety when they get bored. they get the jitters. its like an itch, they NEED to do something to stimulate their minds. for me, i feel this jitteriness all the time. sometimes, it puts me into a wonderful little mood where i seem to think faster in flashes of images than i am consciously able to follow. i have designed entire systems and written entire songs in flashes mere seconds long while in this mood. i am willing to bet hard cash that @LadyOfTheLake has these moments where it seems that her mind has no limits. from where she sits, she is an evolution above everyone else who do not seem capable of such rapid innovation. and while in those moods, whatever the mind sets on is the outlet. be it a person, a system, a field of study, or an art.

beyond the medications i was on as a child, there may be a genetic component as well. my mother was diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder when she was younger. she claims that while i was growing up, she doesnt remember flying into rages and beating me, throwing knives at me, hitting me in the head with things like chairs, frying pans, heavy whiskey bottles, trying to stab me, etc. 
however, i recently caught her abusive behavior on recording when she attacked my niece. she tried making up stories about my niece attacking her, how she was innocent and my niece was a bully. but, when i offered to let the recordings tell the truth, suddenly my mother couldn't remember. she had "blacked out". an old excuse she used all the time. i knew it was going to happen, i saw it coming, and i set the stage to shred her false image she presented to everyone. now, everyone knows how vile she can be. i think it more likely that she is some kind of sociopath as well. possibly BPD? who knows. 

you would think i would feel guilty for that. i mean, she is my mother after all, and now all of her friends and family know that she is an abusive bully. i don't. it doesnt bother me at all. i have never felt the need for her approval. nor my fathers.

if you want to know effective strategies for dealing with sociopaths, that i can help you with. but, if your purpose is only to demonize them because you do not understand them, well, there isn't much discussion to be had. 

im still waiting to see if OP knows what joy feels like. i doubt it. i had never experienced it until about five or six years ago.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I see the inconsistency there and I will try to explain it. The scientist's actions frustrated me and made me angry, yes, but I was angry at myself. I felt a slight annoyance with him, but otherwise nothing changed. I was angry at myself for not being able to figure him out, for not doing it right. Even thinking about it now gets me frustrated. It's like leaving a puzzle unfinished. I CAN'T do that. I HAVE to solve it or it will drive me mad.
> Now in the van afterwards, I felt disgust and disappointment, but again, they were feelings directed at myself. His actions were practically meaningless.
> 
> 
> ...


be careful with that. you may just get what you want.


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## Mrs.Sav (Mar 13, 2014)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope1964 View Post
If you really realize what you're doing is so horrible and you truly don't want to hurt your husband, why will you not end the marriage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyOfTheLake View Post
She diagnosed me as high functioning Asperger's as well as having an *attachment disorder*.

...more like a selfishness disorder.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

The fact that people like LOTL actually exist makes me want to blast off in a spaceship and go live in another universe.

What's the point of existing if it isn't to make the world a better place for our descendants and enrich the lives of those around us?? Such utter selfishness is totally beyond my comprehension. I have no patience to try and figure out the reason. I can't fathom a reason. I will just continue on in my own little world, making it a better place for my grandson, I think. Trying to comprehend all this, if it's even real, is NOT on my bucket list.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> The fact that people like LOTL actually exist makes me want to blast off in a spaceship and go live in another universe.
> 
> What's the point of existing if it isn't to make the world a better place for our descendants and enrich the lives of those around us?? Such utter selfishness is totally beyond my comprehension. I have no patience to try and figure out the reason. I can't fathom a reason. I will just continue on in my own little world, making it a better place for my grandson, I think. Trying to comprehend all this, if it's even real, is NOT on my bucket list.


why? the vast majority of sociopaths are pretty harmless. they may toy with you out of boredome if you get involved with them, but most of them will likely ignore you. 

should you ever get caught op in their games, just accept your emotions and make it well known that you would rather experience anxiety, fear, guilt, etc, than be manipulated. dont try to game them back, you will lose. they see that a mile a way and it just becomes a fun game of cat and mouse for them.

the second a sociopath sees that they cannot use your emotions to manipulate you, then they will lose interest.

if more people took time to understand sociopaths, they would see that they are some of the simplest people to deal with.


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## Mrs.Sav (Mar 13, 2014)

[/QUOTE] I'm not sure what you are asking here. Are you attempting to shame me? I don't like the term "cheats". It doesn't make sense. I don't know how that word came to be used to describe these situations. It seems like a random word choice. But that's a tangent...

*Would I trust someone like myself?* *Depends on the situation I guess. *Y*ou can trust me with money, valuables, secrets. *I've never stolen so much as a cent in my life. I'm brutally honest. Even in this situation. I told H what I wanted to do. I just didn't tell him before I actually went and did it. I did tell him after. It was the stress of having a secret that was eating me up. 

*Would I trust someone like me? I don't trust anyone, ever. For anything.* *I'd prefer not to be the recipient of anyone else's trust, even if I am worthy.*[/QUOTE]

You are dancing around the question. We're certainly not talking about money. And just because you told your husband what you did or are planning on doing doesn't make you an angel. 

Why would you prefer not to be the recipient of anyone else's trust even if you are worthy? Are you recognizing you are not trustworthy? Being trusted is one of the highest compliments anyone can bestow on you. I can only imagine trying to have a legitimate conversation with you and feeling like I'll just be going nowhere with those defensive responses coming from you.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Mrs.Sav said:


> Why would you prefer not to be the recipient of anyone else's trust even if you are worthy? Are you recognizing you are not trustworthy? Being trusted is one of the highest compliments anyone can bestow on you. I can only imagine trying to have a legitimate conversation with you and feeling like I'll just be going nowhere with those defensive responses coming from you.


I don't like to be trusted because that makes me responsible for outcomes and I would have to get involved with people and their drama. For example, I work with several non profit organizations. I could handle large sums of money due to my position as a board member but I have outright refused to do anything that requires me to be in charge of money. While I would be scrupulously honest with every cent, I don't want to be involved. People get emotional about money and that makes me uncomfortable. Same with pretty much any other form of trust. I don't want the implied responsibility or relationship. 
Even in my position as a board member, I've carved out a niche where I'm pretty much only accountable to myself. And that only works because I can be trusted to act in the best interest of the group. Funny how that works.


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## Mrs.Sav (Mar 13, 2014)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I don't like to be trusted because that makes me responsible for outcomes and I would have to get involved with people and their drama. For example, I work with several non profit organizations. I could handle large sums of money due to my position as a board member but I have outright refused to do anything that requires me to be in charge of money. While I would be scrupulously honest with every cent, I don't want to be involved. People get emotional about money and that makes me uncomfortable. Same with pretty much any other form of trust. I don't want the implied responsibility or relationship.
> Even in my position as a board member, I've carved out a niche where I'm pretty much only accountable to myself. And that only works because I can be trusted to act in the best interest of the group. Funny how that works.


I think you are missing my point entirely. You have completely deflected this. We're talking about your situation, your husband, your need for control, your affair, your actions surrounding this. NOT money or anything else.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I'm sitting here at work waiting for the Uber to come pick me up, and I have to call bullsh!t an all these posts by OP and others, trying to blame all thsi on Aspergers. 

Like I said previously, I have a close family member who has struggled as an Aspie all her life. She is the most morally upstanding woman I know, and I can tell you she is far lower functioning than alaisdain or LOTL. She is borderline autistic, halfway on the scale between Aspie and full blown autisitic. She self-soothes ("stimming") by rocking, or sketching, or listening to her beloved Pachelbel on her iPod. She is brilliant with a high I.Q., she can memorize numbers and names like a computer...I call her my personal Rolodex. And yet she cannot tie her shoes. She has no feminine qualities whatsoever. She has no interest in sex or relationships. She falls apart when the bus driver takes different route from the one she is used to traveling every day. 

And yet she has never lied to me. She doesn't sneak around or hide things from people. She cries when she watches sad stories on the news, she cries when she hears a good friend is going through personal issues. She is always the first to go to a friend and comfort that person when he or she is sad or upset, and she cries with them. She is the most empathetic Aspie I know. She can see when a person is in pain, and she has learned what causes people pain and what doesn't cause them pain, and she has LEARNED to feel their pain. No one taught her how to do it, she learned it herself. 

Her co-morbidity is anxiety disorder, and she takes Lexapro for it, and it has done wonders for her. She also has a bit of ADHD and takes Strattera for that. 

What I am getting at is, I want the people here on TAM to understand that OP and Matt Matt's wife are not representative of all Aspies...or even a large percentage of Aspies. Almost every person suffering from Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) also suffers from a psychological mood disorder co-morbidity: ADD, ADHD, anxiety, bi-polar disorder and depression. These are mood disorders... not personality disorders. They can be treated with SSRIs and other medications, and often those treatments work well and allow Aspies to live a much higher quality of life. 

Aspies and Autistics can have personality disorders as co-morbidities, but the frequency is no higher than with regular, non-ASD people like the rest of us. Histrionic personality disorder, Bipolar personality disorder, Sociopathy/Psychopathy, Dissociative identity disorder (DID), Borderline Personality Disorder... Aspies have no higher frequency of these disorders than the rest of us. 

I just want to set the record straight that OP is NOT representative of the ASD community, and the good folks at TAM should not accept her ASD as an excuse for the way she treats her husband. OP has a far darker pathology than just her ASD, and what she needs to do is a have a complete psychoeducational workup done to find out what drives her to act this way.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Boredom, lack of stimulation, and a craving for something I can't quite explain are what drive my behavior. Prior to this van incident all of my indiscretions were committed in the form of online sex chats and "online affairs". This is the first time physical contact has occurred.


I believe my recent 1 week ban was due to the criticism I offered on this thread so I will post this last time and simply wish you the best of luck in your endeavors, with whomever and wherever they may be. One word of caution, if you live in a cold environment you do NOT want to be inside a parked vehicle with the engine running because there's a risk of carbon monoxide poisoning.


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## Mrs.Sav (Mar 13, 2014)

badbane said:


> lady I must say you are a perplexing person. Tell me, you regret hurting your husband and making your decisions but did you every truly feel guilty? Not in the logical sense that you describe so often but raw emotional guilt? It is always hard to judge one's emotions from just reading text. But most of your posts lack the flare of someone that is trying to convey feeling. Your posts are simple, to the point, logical but by and large not emotional. Honestly it doesn't feel like you came here for advice but more like you are attempting to get and external opinion of your actions. From what i have read there is one emotion I haven't really seen you display guilt. I am not trying to bash you or call you out for it. The Canadian medical institution is renowned for it's inefficiency.


Agreed!

OP, you simply cannot in good faith claim your conduct is benevolent (in the name of being honest with your husband) while continuing to hurt him at the same time - knowing that this is not what your husband wants in a marriage. It is rather twisted logic. You are essentially forcing this on your husband with all kinds of justifications.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

Oh my god this thread was a mindf**k. I am borderline Aspergers, depressed, have generalized anxiety disorder, cptsd, and traits of BPD, but holy hell I cannot comprehend bl*wing some guy- even if he's an attractive scientist or an attractive anything- and feeling NOTHING towards my poor husband! 

I've gotta go cuddle my husband... =/


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MrsHolland said:


> This makes no sense. You don't want to be in a position of trust yet you are on various Boards. Being a Board member is about being a person of trust. And with Board experience myself I don't believe that you are only accountable to yourself, it is not how Boards work.


My wife expressed similar concerns.

She has rejected promotion to senior management positions many times over the years.

Why? She says: "If I feel I can't be responsible for myself, how can I be responsible for other people?"


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MrsHolland said:


> This makes no sense. You don't want to be in a position of trust yet you are on various Boards. Being a Board member is about being a person of trust. And with Board experience myself I don't believe that you are only accountable to yourself, it is not how Boards work.


Maybe there's a difference between being on a board as a member and being in charge?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> Oh my god this thread was a mindf**k. I am borderline Aspergers, depressed, have generalized anxiety disorder, cptsd, and traits of BPD, but holy hell I cannot comprehend bl*wing some guy- even if he's an attractive scientist or an attractive anything- and feeling NOTHING towards my poor husband!
> 
> I've gotta go cuddle my husband... =/


 @EllaSuaveterre

It's not that she felt nothing towards her husband.

It's just that the thing with the scientist was between herself and the scientist and was nothing to do with her and her husband.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

As'laDain said:


> my wife was raped by her biological father as a child. she displays a hell of a lot of cluster B traits. still, she is getting better and better every day.
> 
> my mother suffered some horrific abuse growing up and visited her abuse upon my brothers and i. still, i learned to love people, though i cannot explain with words how absolutely destroyed i had to be in order to learn such a simple thing.
> 
> ...


I want you to heal and become an authentic person for yourself LOTL, whether or not your husband chooses to stay with you or not, and I do empathize with the pain you went through as as a result of the torment you suffered as a child. But none of us here are really qualified to give you any real constructive advice. There is no one here who thinks you are evil. I don't. Your selfishness and self-centeredness can be attributed to your ASD. That's not an issue. But there is something very disturbing about your inability to empathize. 

If you are going through counseling, I'm very surprised your therapist has not referred you to a clinical psychologist for further evaluation for personality disorder. From my view here as an armchair observer, who has done some reading on personality disorders and psychosis, I would not be at all surprised if you were diagnosed with some kind of PD. You owe it to yourself and your husband to get a full work up done on yourself. 

Generally, personality disorders are not treatable by way of therapy or medication. Somewhere along the line, your wiring got messed up. Once the personality portion of the brain is wired...it's wired. There is no changing around the circuitry. But you can undergo educational therapy where you learn the "scripts" of how "normal" people learn to read each other's unspoken cues and body language. It takes work and practice, but a sociopath or narcissist can learn how to act appropriately and feign empathy, even when they do not actually feel or internalize it.

Ted Bundy learned how to read people and learned how to act empathetic. He was the most charming man you would ever want to meet. Until he choked and stabbed you to death. But he was evil. You are not.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> @EllaSuaveterre
> 
> It's not that she felt nothing towards her husband.
> 
> It's just that the thing with the scientist was between herself and the scientist and was nothing to do with her and her husband.


That is a good way of framing it. It takes empathy to bridge the gap and avoid compartmentalization.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> I want you to heal and become an authentic person for yourself As'la Dain, whether or not your husband chooses to stay with you or not, and I do empathize with the pain you went through as as a result of the torment you suffered as a child. But none of us here are really qualified to give you any real constructive advice. There is no one here who thinks you are evil. I don't. Your selfishness and self-centeredness can be attributed to your ASD. That's not an issue. But there is something very disturbing about your inability to empathize.
> 
> If you are going through counseling, I'm very surprised your therapist has not referred you to a clinical psychologist for further evaluation for personality disorder. From my view here as an armchair observer, who has done some reading on personality disorders and psychosis, I would not be at all surprised if you were diagnosed with some kind of PD. You owe it to yourself and your husband to get a full work up done on yourself.
> 
> ...


misquote?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

As'laDain said:


> misquote?


Went back and fixed it. Thank you. 

All you ethereal blonde romantics look the same to me.


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