# Feeling lost...



## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

Hi, 

I've come here looking for some advice about my marriage. I have been with my husband for 5 years, we've been married for 2. I was single for a year before I met him, after being in a bad relationship (he cheated, so I left)... When I met my husband, I wasn't looking for a relationship and didn't push for commitment. He was a few years younger than me and in the navy and in all honesty I didn't see it going anywhere. However, the more time we spent together, the more I was proved wrong. It just felt right. 

We moved in together within the year, mostly for financial reasons, he just bought a house and my tenancy was ending on my apartment, so he asked if I wanted to move in. Things were brilliant, and despite the time apart, we grew very close. We have never really argued and he has a lovely character, caring and warm. My family and friends adore him, and we've always been happy. 

We were engaged in 2010, I was surprised at the proposal but it felt right. We married in Summer 2012, and he'd left the navy a few months prior to our wedding. 

Everything has been brilliant in our marriage, we've had a tough start, we had a death of a very close family member of mine, and two redundancies. But we've remained strong and close and we've got through it. Well, in October last year I received a message from his ex girlfriend telling me he tried to sleep with her after we were engaged, and then just before he left the navy. She said she doesn't want anything from him, but felt I should know. 

He admitted he had done this, and I took some time to think about whether I should stay. I asked him if there was anything else and he said no, and I stayed. January this year, he eventually sat me down and told me, within the first year of our relationship, he had two one night stands, and 2 one night stands with a co-worker (in the navy). The following year, he slept with the same co- worker twice.

I was obviously devastated and everyone was shocked, I made him tell my family and his. Its very hard to explain, but he's such a warm loving person that none of them could believe it. I took a month and decided that I think what we have is worth the risk. He said that since we've been married he's been faithful and that he put in for voluntary redundancy from the navy, because he knew he wanted to settle down with me, in our home town, and break away from the navy life. I said that is was a cop out as the situation doesn't force you to cheat. It's the choices you make, but he said I made the choice to leave that behind and since I've been faithful. Well I decided to stay, and asked him again if there was anything else, I said you had these one night stands, do you expect me to believe you've never tried it on with other women? He said no, that was it. 

This week he came clean about trying with other women, 7 times during the first year, he said I was truly horrible in the first year and I never let you go because I knew you were the one. I was so used to being away in Plymouth, going out drinking and living that life, looking back I probably should have let you go, but I wanted to marry you, and it was the best decision I ever made, the worst was keeping it from you.

Now, I really don't know what to do. Part of me says 'He was 21/22 years old, in the navy, away from me a few weeks a month, we didn't have a conventional relationship, hes not a malicious person and he's a good man'..... The other part of me is thinking 'He's lied repeatedly, he couldn't have loved you, and has very little respect for you, leave now before he does it again'..... 

I love him truly, and he is the man I wanted to spend my life with, still is. I don't think he would do it again, and I think making the decision to leave the navy and come home was a good one, however, my concern is, that he simply hasn't had the opportunity to cheat since, not like he did when he was the other end of the country. My worry is the continual lying. 

He's devastated now as I've said I don't think we can mend this, I know my limits and I certainly know I don't want to live in fear of my husband cheating, it's not healthy for either of us. However, I feel that what we have is strong enough to get through this, I just have my doubts. 

I am really looking for some guidance, as I am completely torn.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Hi Teal,
Many here know the feelings you are experiencing and I'm sorry you are in this place.
If there is one piece of advice I can give you, it is that the saying "once a cheater, always a cheater" is definitely true, almost without exception. This is because the drivers for cheating are two, their fundamental personality and their primal urges. Neither of these two will ever change. Try to imagine yourself changing these in your self - you can't.
The next important step is to STOP and give yourself a LOT of space to let all the emotions associated with this man dissipate. Move him out, and everything, every single thing he owns. At least 6 months with NO contact. I have been there and the only way you can think straight about all this is to separate and if you are in a country where you can serve papers, do so. Trust me, if he is willing to crawl back, and climb Everest for you to save the marriage, he will do so.
Once you have broken it off given yourself plenty of space and time, you will be able to logically think about what you want in life and in a relationship. 
For me, the next step was to go to personal counselling and find out more about myself. And find out I did, an enormous amount. I am happier now than I have ever been. And I would suggest you still carry with you deep wounds from your previous relationship that need healing.
Once you have done all that, you can sit back, consider everything and make a decision. And I bet you, at that time, with emotion removed from the equation, your pride and self respect will prevent you from going back.
Stay strong and PM me if you want to talk.


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

Thanks for your advice, I understand I need space and time. I just can't think straight at the minute. He is currently working away at sea for 5 weeks, and I am a full time student. I gave up my job to go back to college. 

He has been faithful since leaving the navy, just before we got married, but I really doubt whether it's through choice. I think it's more situational, and that he hasn't had the opportunity to. I just can't bear the lying. I feel like he's taken my life from me, I am 30 this year and we were planning to have a child within the next couple of years, once I'd finished my studies, now I feel like he's taken that away from me. I am so angry.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

I was in the Navy as well for 8 years and had time away from my wife in the Philippeans with more temptation that you can imagine- but I never betrayed her. And let me tell you, his excuses are _no_ reason for betrayals. He did this as he wanted to and had the easy opportunity- period. And here's a shocker for you.... he will again as it's just what makes him tick. 

You have 2 options:

1) Accept the fact he is a serial betrayer and just learn to cope with it and make the best of it all.

2) Call it quits and find a much better life for yourself.

I wish you well.


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

Wow this is so hard. Although I am angry and hurt, I actually believed it might have been a phase, as it all happened early on in our relationship, and then he sorted himself out. But it could just be that it's how he is. 

I just feel so completely lost, the man I married is not who I thought he was/is.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Teal1985 said:


> I actually believed it might have been a phase...


A phase? Sorry, but there no such things. He has admitted to being a serial betrayer and you think this is a phase? I know you want to hold on, but don;t try and fool yourself.



Teal1985 said:


> I just feel so completely lost, *the man I married is not who I thought he was/is.*


And that is the answer. He isn't. And never was. And never will be.

I am sorry to be so blunt, but trying to fool yourself will only make things worse. Sadly, you married a betrayer and a loser. He will never change.


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

Its ok to be blunt, it's your advice and I do appreciate it. 

I told myself after a previous relationship that I've never stand for it again but here I am. So you believe there are two types of people, those who cheat and those who don't? and neither one will change? I suppose I am trying to put it down to it being within the first year of our relationship, and us being so far apart, then I think, at the time he was 21/22 years old and I cut him slack. But I then realise that I was away from him too, I never cheated and would never consider it. 

It's really hard to imagine life without him as crazy as that probably sounds, he's very different to my ex partner, who showed no remorse or emotion when confronted. I know i should probably walk away, but I feel like 'What if he has grown up, and is settled with me now, and would never do it again?'.... Its really hard to just up and leave.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

IMO I wouldn't have a child with him any time soon. If anything you need to do some serious soul searching. I understand you love him, but that wont stop someone from cheating. And he may or may not ever do that again, however do you want to spend your life always wondering if he is? Thats no way to live.


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

CallaLily said:


> IMO I wouldn't have a child with him any time soon. If anything you need to do some serious soul searching. I understand you love him, but that wont stop someone from cheating. And he may or may not ever do that again, however do you want to spend your life always wondering if he is? Thats no way to live.


I won't be having a child with him anytime soon now, not after all of this coming to light. What I meant was, I feel like because of his actions, I probably will leave, and I feel like he's taken away my chance of having a child. 

I left my ex partner because I felt that what he did was unforgiveable, and it turned the relationship sour. I was ill with worry and he did nothing to help put my mind at rest. So I left. I guess I came on here to have some truths delivered, but part of me was wanting to hear that people have successfully reconciled, I am now realising that's a rarity.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Teal1985 said:


> I don't think he would do it again


Perhaps he's a rare exception, but I'm not sure why you would think this. He's shown you that not only will he cheat, but he's made the decision to do it multiple times - early in the marriage when you should be in your honeymoon stage. 

The best predictor of his future behavior is his past behavior.

What happens the next time when you fail to meet his expectations;when you've got several more years invested in the marriage and have children?

Whether you R with him is a personal decision; but be aware of the odds, and understand that you may someday regret giving him yet another chance.


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

He cheated before we were married, within the first year of our relationship. We were still committed though. At least I was! Since we've been married he's been faithful, it all happened when he was in the navy based about 400miles away from me. Whether we were married or not makes no difference to be honest, I was still committed to him. 

The more I hear from other people the more it's sinking in.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Teal1985 said:


> Whether we were married or not makes no difference to be honest, I was still committed to him.


Okay, I stand corrected. You say he hasn't cheated on you while you were married - that you know of. But you're right, it shouldn't matter.

Would you have married him had you known? If not, that may help give you a clue as to what you should do now.


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

If he had come clean about it before we were married then no, I wouldn't have done it. I don't know for sure I would have completely ended it or tried to work on it, but I definitely wouldn't have married him. 

He says he will do anything to make it right, the usual speech bla bla bla. I always had a bad feeling but put it down to how my ex was to me before this relationship, and my husband, never acted oddly, he'd let me have his phone, go on his laptop, would ring me after nights out etc. So I never really acted on my gut feeling, and then this came out. But my gut tells me he did do some growing up and wouldn't do it in the future. However, I don't want to be a fool and kid myself that people can grow up and change.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Teal1985 said:


> So you believe there are two types of people, those who cheat and those who don't? and neither one will change?


I believe (and there are studies to back this up) that people have the propensity to betray or not. That may not guarantee serial betraying, but it shows a mindset that does not change. 

My first wife was a serial betrayer. It was just her way of getting what she wanted- a big lifestyle. My second (and current wife) was in her late 20's/early 30's and in a sexless marriage (due to testicular cancer) with a cruel man who mentally abused her. She never once even considered an emotiona or physical affair. It just wasn't her way of coping. And I might add she is a very sexual person (keeps me flat worn out and I keep hoping for menapause as I need a break).

I used to moderate a board like this. The betrayers would say that the very first time was hard and then after that it was not only easy, but perferable.


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

thatbpguy said:


> I believe (and there are studies to back this up) that people have the propensity to betray or not. That may not guarantee serial betraying, but it shows a mindset that does not change.
> 
> My first wife was a serial betrayer. It was just her way of getting what she wanted- a big lifestyle. My second (and current wife) was in her late 20's/early 30's and in a sexless marriage (due to testicular cancer) with a cruel man who mentally abused her. She never once even considered an emotiona or physical affair. It just wasn't her way of coping. And I might add she is a very sexual person (keeps me flat worn out and I keep hoping for menapause as I need a break).
> 
> I used to moderate a board like this. The betrayers would say that the very first time was hard and then after that it was not only easy, but perferable.




Thank you for that. He said something similar himself, the first time he cheated, we'd been together literally 1 week I think, he said he felt awful and had never cheated on anyone before, his ex girl was the one that cheated on him, and she told me this too... Anyway he then said, after the first time, it became almost like a habit. 

He admitted this, and said that's when he put in for voluntary redundancy to try and remove himself from the situation and concentrate on us. Since him leaving the navy, we've barely spent a night apart, we had a tough time financially as I left my job to go back to study, so we haven't really had nights away etc like we would have before. And he says he never came clean because he was a coward and didn't want to face up to what he did, he wanted it to be a distant memory and has no intention of ever repeating his behaviour again...

However, after reading some replies I am beginning to doubt whether he is actually capable of change and wonder if even he is in denial.


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## Lifer (Feb 14, 2014)

I don't post here, much, but I feel compelled to share a helpful quote. 

"When someone SHOWS you who they really are, believe them." 

Your family and friends are so impressed with him, because they only see and hear what he wants them to. He sounds like a warm, likable, good communicator. The best, or worst, tail chasers always are. They trust completely their ability to make you believe their ridiculous explanations. He is very confident in his own verbal skills, likely because he is always using them, with good results.


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## MoonBay (Mar 10, 2013)

Teal1985 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've come here looking for some advice about my marriage. I have been with my husband for 5 years, we've been married for 2. I was single for a year before I met him, after being in a bad relationship (he cheated, so I left)... When I met my husband, I wasn't looking for a relationship and didn't push for commitment. He was a few years younger than me and in the navy and in all honesty I didn't see it going anywhere. However, the more time we spent together, the more I was proved wrong. It just felt right.
> 
> ...


Honestly, your husband has proved to be a serial cheat. And he hasn't even told you everything. He's given you more trickle truths after supposedly telling you that you know everything. 

What has he done to show that you can trust him? Has he given you complete transparency with all of his social media/email/phone accounts? Has he cut off all people who facilitated his cheating? Has he sought help through counseling to figure out why he cheated?

Based on what you have written, it sounds like your husband is trying to control you into staying in the relationship by stipulating what HE feels you should and should not know.

Don't let him have that control anymore. It's up to you whether or not you want to continue with the relationship. If you want to have all of the information, demand a complete timeline from him that has absolutely everything on it, or else you walk.

Based on his pattern, I'd say leave and learn from this relationship and pay attention to red flags. 

But if you really think this is worth saving, it'll be an extremely hard road. And it seems like your husband hasn't even begun to understand the things that need to be done to mend your relationship.


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

Some very good advice, thank you all...

Probably since we've been married I've had access to email/password, and I do all the banking etc. That wasn't due to me knowing he'd cheated it was basically down to him asking me to check his emails/facebook when we were looking into him getting a position in the merchant navy. It would be a case of a company giving him 24hours notice to join a ship. He's never been bothered about me having his phone, being able to use his laptop, seeing his facebook or emails. Hence why it was such a shock. 

His timeline was this basically.....

We started dating in the January 2010, after meeting in 2009. We would see eachother maybe once or twice a month when he came back north after being in Plymouth (in the navy). He said he had several nights out in Plymouth right at the beginning of us dating and he approached other women, kissed some of them. In the February and march he had two one night stands. Then in the summer he slept with a co-worker after a night out. He slept with this same girl in the September too. 

He said he then decided to sort himself out as he'd never cheated on his previous girlfriend and knew he wanted to settle down with me. He asked me to marry him and stayed faithful until the following year, when he slept with the same co-worker once in the march and once in the September. He came home in the September and decided to put in for redundancy, and broke all contact with anyone he'd been involved with. We married in the June after that, and he's not cheated since. He said before that 1.5 year period, he has never cheated on anyone, his ex gf cheated on him (she told me this too). 

Since we've been married we've barely spent a night apart, he said to me he was sick of wasting money on nights out like he did when he was in the navy and it was time for him to grow up. We started putting our money away for trips away together and whenever he's been on nights out locally, he's home for midnight and goes out with mutual friends. He said he never came clean because he didn't want to face up to what he did he wanted to forget it.... I know he's been giving me trickle truths and I even told him this myself. He said he thinks he should go to counselling as even though he feels he wouldn't cheat again, that he needs to understand himself why he did it. 

P.S hes not the most articulate of men, and usually is a man of few words, he's not an expert communicator by any means and he had pretty much zero confidence, he was badly bullied as a teen and suffered panic attacks growing up... I was the first long term relationship he as ever had. 

I have told him if he wants counselling I will be there to help him through it, however, whether that is his wife, or as a friend I am not sure, because I don't know if we can mend it.

Sorry for the long reply!!


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

Teal1985 said:


> *he did nothing to help put my mind at rest.* So I left. I guess I came on here to have some truths delivered, but part of me was wanting to hear that people have successfully reconciled, I am now realising that's a rarity.


imho, this is what makes a diff from the BS perspective....does he want to stay married? is he truly remorseful? 

there are several people here who've been in your shoes (and worse) and reconciled successfully. it's hard...and as a fellow BS; some of those feelings never go away...trust issues/etc/etc.

i also came her for advice not too long ago and got plenty of it. the takeaway for me was that *no one* is in my exact position/knows all the circumstances and can tell me 100% what to do....my advice is to take the information here and apply it (where applicable) to your situation and then listen to your heart/head.


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

StuckInAL said:


> imho, this is what makes a diff from the BS perspective....does he want to stay married? is he truly remorseful?
> 
> there are several people here who've been in your shoes (and worse) and reconciled successfully. it's hard...and as a fellow BS; some of those feelings never go away...trust issues/etc/etc.
> 
> i also came her for advice not too long ago and got plenty of it. the takeaway for me was that *no one* is in my exact position/knows all the circumstances and can tell me 100% what to do....my advice is to take the information here and apply it (where applicable) to your situation and then listen to your heart/head.


That was me talking about my ex before my husband, he reacted very differently in confrontation, he actually never did admit that he cheated until a couple of years after I left him. I received a random apology via email one day. My husband now won't leave me alone, texting me, saying he will not give up and that he doesn't want to spend his life without me in it. I of course took the 'Well you should have considered that before....' 

He says he's been reading about counselling and never really thought he had an issue because it was 1.5years of his life and he hasn't had a though about cheating since, he said at first he missed going out and after a few months he settled into living back here in his home town and enjoyed just the time with our local friends, being with me and didn't want what he had before. 

I am well aware of the bull**** that they feed when caught, or when they've delivered info via trickle truths like my husband has, but in honesty, he hasn't really been bothered about nights out with the guys, and isn't secretive with phone/fb/etc... and to be honest we mostly do what I want to do, that probably sounds selfish but he's generally quite laid back and goes with the flow. 

I can't tell if he will ever do it again, and that worries me. The fact it took him 7 months pretty much to reveal all the details of his betrayals is even more worrying, as I gave him plenty of opportunity to fess up. I can honestly say I am not sure about what will happen, in an ideal world we'd R and be happy, but it's far from ideal. Apart from trying to keep the infidelity secret, he's not done anything since that would make me think he is still cheating, or would cheat. 

I spoke to him frankly and said, would you prefer to be single, and us remain friends, you can do what you like then and have no one to answer to, and he broke down and said he couldn't lose me. I feel as though he wants to remain married, but I don't know if he's in denial about his behaviour.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

i don't think we live in an ideal world...nor do i believe there are any ideal marriages out there.

my wife and i have been reconciled for about 7 yrs and i've had a few moments in those years where something has tickled a wound i thought long healed. it took us about year and some serious MC to get things on track and we still work on it daily.


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

StuckInAL said:


> i don't think we live in an ideal world...nor do i believe there are any ideal marriages out there.
> 
> my wife and i have been reconciled for about 7 yrs and i've had a few moments in those years where something has tickled a wound i thought long healed. it took us about year and some serious MC to get things on track and we still work on it daily.


Thank you. I know I will never forget what he's done, though, I never forgot what my ex did either and I had wounds from that relationship when I entered this one. I did make an effort not to let it show and gave my now husband his freedom and space. He chose to abuse it. 

This is something we discussed when he decided to fess up to being unfaithful in January this year. I asked him for complete honesty then and I didn't get it. He omitted the details of him approaching other women (within the first 6 months of us dating) his reason for this was 'Because I didn't want to let you know how bad I was, I didn't want you to think of me like that and feel hurt, I didn't want to face up to it, I am supposed to protect you not hurt you'... 

As far as he is aware now, we are separating, and he has no idea if I plan to R or not. I have basically said to him, he needs IC before I even consider MC with him. His actions in the coming months will hopefully provide me with more direction, as well as being able to think clearly and take some time for myself. 

My mother suggested that I 'go public' with the separation, and let everyone know, she said I didn't a few months ago when I found out and maybe he needs a little more of a reality check. Though I don't know if exposing him is a good idea, especially if we do R.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

i chose to not go public at the time...now, the important people (family) know about her affair and ONS. *A LOT* has changed over the last 7 years. we honestly don't have many close friends from that time...and the ones we do still associate with know. 

i think going super public would have derailed any hope of reconciling so i don't regret the decision to keep it private and work on fixing our broken marriage. my wife likens what happened to an identity crisis....she really didn't know what she wanted with her life. i told her to figure it out...she did...we worked through it. we also have children now and i feel that the more people that know about it the higher chance for a super awkward conversation later down the road; something my wife struggles with...how will she explain our marital history without giving our daughters the "green light" to mirror her actions?

i tend to feel as though we did a really good job of being in a "spotty marriage" for 7 years......my wife dropped a nuclear bomb on that marriage and now we've been working hard the last 8 years to have a great marraige. that's what i want my girls to see. 

i will say this...of the few friends who were in the know then....some were very pro divorce....those friends of hers that were in that camp are no longer in her life (her choice).


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

Teal1985 said:


> Thank you. I know I will never forget what he's done, though, I never forgot what my ex did either and I had wounds from that relationship when I entered this one. I did make an effort not to let it show and gave my now husband his freedom and space. He chose to abuse it.
> 
> This is something we discussed when he decided to fess up to being unfaithful in January this year. I asked him for complete honesty then and I didn't get it. He omitted the details of him approaching other women (within the first 6 months of us dating) his reason for this was 'Because I didn't want to let you know how bad I was, I didn't want you to think of me like that and feel hurt, I didn't want to face up to it, I am supposed to protect you not hurt you'...
> 
> ...


Some might say this is exactly why you should go public.

Consequences are also deterrents for them doing it again.


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

My mother, his mother and one of my friends know. I didn't plan on telling anyone, but we all need to be able to talk to someone. 

@:StuckInAL - I understand why you chose not to go super public, and I would say that I am of a similar mindset currently. I don't want it to define our marriage if we do R. Tbh one of my friends is very much pro-divorce too, and says 'if I was in your situation I would leave'. But we all know how easy that is to say until you are in that situation.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

I think you've been given a gift most of us have not had. 

Most of us were married for years, had children, tied up and spent our money,...........and so much more, before we discovered our spouse would cheat on us and leave us in dire-straights. 

Yes, it's hard now to divorce or even separate but you can't even imagine how hard it's going to be in the future. It's usually near impossible and certainly not without affecting finances, careers, and the lives of family, friends, and children. 

Listen to the veterans here very carefully. We are trying to help. 

In my opinion, this is the perfect opportunity for a separation. Separations were created for such a predicament. 

He has a lot of work to do on himself to change if possible and I believe you do too. 

Deception is a choice for both of you. Don't deceive yourself into a chance at true trust and honesty with someone. Don't let this go because of his age. His weakness was due to character and not age. (Again, in my opinion)

Whatever you choose, good luck.


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

I completely understand what you are saying and I will take it on-board. I am trying to take the advice and let myself process it. We haven't had a child no, but this is mainly due to the fact that it is hard for me to conceive. But there was hope for a child in the future. We own the house together and I left my job to go back to college. So financially it is complicated. But we've already agreed that he will continue to support me until I've finished my studies. We both don't want to be sour, and I'm not someone who holds onto anger, so I am confident we can move forward amicably. 

I am torn, I admit I am 50/50. I don't like to think people are incapable of change, I am studying psychology and it would go against a lot of what I've been taught. It would have been easier to move past the infidelity if he had come clean before we married, because that shows greater guilt and remorse, more importantly strength. But the idea that 1.5 years of his life defines him and all the actions he will take in the future seems unfair, I know I probably sound like I have my head in the clouds, but he chose to leave the navy (yes his job didn't make him cheat, but to him it was a contributing factor), and since he's been faithful. We've grown a lot closer since he left the navy, we've had turbulent times with a bereavement and two redundancies and we got through it together, he's always been there to support me and me him. The big shadow however, is the continual lying, that despite us getting closer, he still chose to keep it from me until early this year. 

I really am conflicted, on the one hand I don't want to write him off, he does seem to have tried, he has little interest in the kind of lifestyle he was living back then, he's not bothered about me having access to everything 'private'. On the other hand, I have a serial cheat on my hands. Enough said.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Teal1985 said:


> and since he's been faithful.


Given his premarital history, unless you've had complete 24/7 accountability, that's not a wise assumption. At the very least you shouldn't assume either way.


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

badmemory said:


> Given his premarital history, unless you've had complete 24/7 accountability, that's not a wise assumption. At the very least you shouldn't assume either way.


Since he moved back here after leaving the navy, we really haven't spent that much time apart. He immediately went into a job where he was working 12 hour shifts (60 hours a week), I would pick him up and drop him off and he'd have the same days off as me for the most part. He has had hardly any nights out, we usually go to parties/events together and he has very little interest in going out to clubs if any interest at all. He doesn't go to a gym, he sometimes visits friends but invites me too, mostly he has friends round here (we are situated in the middle of most of his friends so its an easy gathering spot). He left his shift job and immediately started working in the north sea, (all male crew), and when he's at home, I am off too as I study now and work from home. He doesn't drive, he never got a licence. So I know he's not gallivanting off in car parks. I have had complete access to his phone/email/fb... in fact my phone broke while we were on holiday last year and he gave me his to keep while he went back to sea and I was waiting for my replacement. 

I have no reason to assume he's cheated since he moved back home. However I know that if people want to cheat they can make it happen. As I pointed out earlier, being in the navy away from me made it easier for him to cheat, if he hasn't cheated since leaving it's more likely down to him being less able to do it/get away with it. I am aware of that, this is what I've addressed with him. I said 'You can't say you've tried and remained faithful since leaving the navy through your own choice, it's simply been harder for you to do so, you haven't addressed why you cheated back then, you put it down to the 'navy lifestyle' but it was all you, nothing forced you to, you made that choice, repeatedly'... 

I have a hard road ahead whichever path I take. But I am not sure I should write him off completely.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Teal1985 said:


> I have a hard road ahead whichever path I take. But I am not sure I should write him off completely.


I understand Teal, and I'm not suggesting you should.

No driver's license huh? That does make it more difficult to cheat doesn't it?

All I'm saying is don't be naive about his ability to change. My main concern is the serial nature of what he did. It's apparent he's been an "opportunistic" cheater. He best be willing to be fully transparent and give you complete accountability for his time going forward.

Wishing you the best no matter what route you take.


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

I know I even laughed myself at the driving licence thing, but as I writing I had images of people meeting in cars so thought I'd rule that one out. 

I spoke to WH on the phone and he said he's been reading forums etc about serial cheats. (Hmmm wonder if he stumbles across this one). He said 'It's obviously what I am isn't it, reading about what they do, it's what I have done. And although I don't have an urge to cheat now, and haven't since being home with you, how do I know I won't in the future, these people said they won't and they let people down again'... I said 'Well, that's what you need to figure out isn't it, and that is exactly my point, the intention can be there when the temptation isn't present, but throw yourself back into that same opportunistic environment and you can't be sure'....

I think he understands that he needs to take responsibility and face upto it, instead of hide it. He said that hiding it was for mostly selfish reasons, he didn't want to hurt me, but more importantly that it was because I would leave.

He said that he'd read up on counselling and wants to try, and he said it worries me that serial cheaters don't always stop, and that they don't always change. I want to know what made me cheat, not just for the selfish reasons but I know I was in love with you, we were happy, so why did I do it?

I was thinking the whole time, 'If he's just going through the motions I will skin him alive'... but I digress... He said he understands I need to separate from him and he thinks it's probably best while we work on ourselves, I thought about something that made me wonder if there was something more going on with his 'need to cheat'...

Hear me out... His Father (also in the navy) got two women pregnant at the same time, he denied all knowledge and existence of my husband, and my husband was brought up by his mother alone. He never met his father until last year actually and I was with him when he did. It was quite emotional.

Now, as I've mentioned earlier, my husband and I rarely argue but on the odd occasion he's got himself so worked up that he's had a panic attack (something that he used to have often growing up due to bullying). He said he always panics because he feels he 'let's me down' and I will leave. He has these massive abandonment issues and almost needs to feel needed and wanted. I am wondering if there might be something in that and if it in some way contributed to his attention seeking, *****-ish behaviour... Anyway.. enough of the psychobabble. 

I am happy he is seemingly acknowledging his problem, though I am weary and somewhat sceptical. I suppose that is normal. I did reaffirm that we shall remain separated because I can't promise R, it's all so raw.

I just want to say thanks to everyone for all the advice, it's helped open my eyes a little and I know it may seem as though I am lapping up what he's feeding me, but it's allowing me some objectivity that I might not have had without the advice.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Teal1985 said:


> He said he understands I need to separate from him and he thinks it's probably best while we work on ourselves


First, understand when I give you my observations, I'm not necessarily trying to convince you to divorce him. I just want you to go into this with your eyes wide open. That said:

It should bother you that he is so agreeable to separation. Why is he? Is he trying not to pressure you? Maybe. Or is he trying to get free from your scrutiny? Very possible.

All I can tell you is that if I was him and indeed remorseful, I'd try to convince you not to separate - until I knew you couldn't be convinced.

Just sayin.


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

badmemory said:


> First, understand when I give you my observations, I'm not necessarily trying to convince you to divorce him. I just want you to go in this with your eyes wide open. That said:
> 
> It should bother you that he is so agreeable to separation. Why is he? Is he trying not to pressure you? Maybe. Or is he trying to get free from your scrutiny? Very possible.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input. Yes he's spent the past couple of days begging me not to separate and I said you need to stop being selfish and let me have my space and stop trying to force me to stay... So it might be that he doesn't want to pressure me. I said to him we will spend this next 5 weeks apart (hes at sea) and then he can stay at my mums when hes home, he agreed and she has agreed with me to keep tabs on him. I've told him this too. He gets on really well with my family and its a way for me to have space and tbh I want to be selfish right now, and think about me. He works long periods on the north sea, so he has alone time on the ship.

I see what you are saying though and when he said it, it did get my back up, but then I thought 'You've spent two days telling him to back off'


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Teal1985 said:


> Thanks for your input. Yes he's spent the past couple of days begging me not to separate and I said you need to stop being selfish and let me have my space and stop trying to force me to stay... So it might be that he doesn't want to pressure me. I said to him we will spend this next 5 weeks apart (hes at sea) and then he can stay at my mums when hes home, he agreed and she has agreed with me to keep tabs on him. I've told him this too. He gets on really well with my family and its a way for me to have space and tbh I want to be selfish right now, and think about me. He works long periods on the north sea, so he has alone time on the ship.
> 
> I see what you are saying though and when he said it, it did get my back up, but then I thought 'You've spent two days telling him to back off'


Okay Teal,

I keep throwing you hard balls to test his remorse, and you consistently hit them back at me hard. Maybe he is remorseful. I hope so.


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

You're right to throw me them. Maybe he is remorseful, maybe he's a good liar. 

I appreciate all the advice, and I think honestly what I need to do first is have my space to really let it all sink in. And be objective, which I think is what most people on here advise people to do, to take a step back.


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## TurtleRun (Oct 18, 2013)

Teal1985 said:


> So you believe there are two types of people, those who cheat and those who don't?


There are those who cheat and are sorry for it. Truly remorseful. But he did it multiple times with multiple people... there is no remorse in that. 

That is why you should run away.


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## catsa (Jun 8, 2013)

So many OP's here say, "I have his email password, FB password, etc." 

It takes about 2 minutes, especially on an iphone, to delete an email account, then wake it up whenever. 

Only spyware will show it. 

If you're really planning to do a separation with both of you remaining faithful, you really need to have some way to monitior. If he takes a laptop with him, definitely put a keylogger on it. There are some that send you email reports of everything.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

catsa said:


> So many OP's here say, "I have his email password, FB password, etc."
> 
> It takes about 2 minutes, especially on an iphone, to delete an email account, then wake it up whenever.
> 
> ...


If he's in the Navy, he'll be aboard a government vessel(or did I miss something?).

"Spyware, on a laptop, aboard a Navy vessel...


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

He doesn't take his laptop to sea with him because they don't have wifi etc... he leaves it here. When hes home we use mine mostly, as its newer and in the kitchen...

His email account is synced to his phone, I have many times just asked for his phone and hes passed me it without a second thought, and there is nothing on there that would worry me. 

I am currently going through his mobile phone record, and I can see every text/call, internet use he's had.... very little internet use, calls are all to numbers I recognise in my own phone, and texts too... I don't think hes at it currently. I've always had access to the mobile phone records etc. I deal with all finances, we have a strict budget to stick to for savings. 

I don't think he would plan and plot, he was more of an opportunist... the concern is, he 'removed' himself from being in the Royal Navy and living away from me, and came home and now works in the north sea instead, because he felt like he didn't want to carry on doing what he was doing. he did a timeline last night using his fb as a guide, and we figured out, his last betrayal was 12 months before the wedding, that is when he planned to put in for redundancy, shortly after. 

I believe he wanted to sort himself out, but its whether hes capable or not, most here think that people will carry on throughout life, which through their experience that might be the case. I would tend to agree, and this is my concern, that he's taken away the 'easy temptation' but hasn't actually chosen not to cheat. It's hard to explain but I have serious doubts about one night stands happening again in future.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Abandonment issues are bad.

He is likely to cheat again because if this.

He may also be reading so he can tell you what you want to hear. Manipulation.

I hope not. He can't want to turn out like his dad.


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

clipclop2 said:


> Abandonment issues are bad.
> 
> He is likely to cheat again because if this.
> 
> ...


I have no idea if he has some deep seated psychological issues that contributed to his spate of cheating, however I can see how his upbringing could contribute. On the other hand it could simply be down to him just thinking 'because he can'... He said to me that it was a factor, because he knew he had less chance of getting caught, but he said it wasn't the only reason. He says 'It's hard to put myself back in that mind-set, because I don't have an urge to cheat now, and haven't for a long while'... I am sceptical about that statement, and I sit and wonder is he telling me what I 'want' to hear. 

He has been reading on serial cheats and said 'He doesn't identify with doing it for power or control'... he's not very confident and never has been, he has very low self-worth, so I am thinking it could be an ego boost. I want him to figure it out and I know it sounds crazy, but he's not a malicious person despite him betraying me so terribly. Something I am having a hard time getting my head round is he is usually so careful not to hurt peoples feelings, he doesn't like to upset people, I've hardly ever heard him mutter a bad word about anyone either. So why he so freely hurt me like he did is beyond me.


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## MoonBay (Mar 10, 2013)

Teal1985 said:


> I have no idea if he has some deep seated psychological issues that contributed to his spate of cheating, however I can see how his upbringing could contribute. On the other hand it could simply be down to him just thinking 'because he can'... He said to me that it was a factor, because he knew he had less chance of getting caught, but he said it wasn't the only reason. He says 'It's hard to put myself back in that mind-set, because I don't have an urge to cheat now, and haven't for a long while'... I am sceptical about that statement, and I sit and wonder is he telling me what I 'want' to hear.
> 
> He has been reading on serial cheats and said 'He doesn't identify with doing it for power or control'... he's not very confident and never has been, he has very low self-worth, so I am thinking it could be an ego boost. I want him to figure it out and I know it sounds crazy, but he's not a malicious person despite him betraying me so terribly. Something I am having a hard time getting my head round is he is usually so careful not to hurt peoples feelings, he doesn't like to upset people, I've hardly ever heard him mutter a bad word about anyone either. So why he so freely hurt me like he did is beyond me.


Reading won't help your husband figure out why he did those things. And you constantly trying to figure out reasons why he did it won't help either.

He needs to get into therapy, like yesterday. A therapist will get to the root issues better than you both thinking up possible reasons that could be completely off target.


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

MoonBay said:


> Reading won't help your husband figure out why he did those things. And you constantly trying to figure out reasons why he did it won't help either.
> 
> He needs to get into therapy, like yesterday. A therapist will get to the root issues better than you both thinking up possible reasons that could be completely off target.


You're right and its the first thing he's doing when he returns from sea. I've looked into counselling locally, unfortunately for some reason here in the UK MC's are few and far between, especially ones who specialise in serial cheating etc... I suppose it's just natural to speculate myself and wonder why isn't it.


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## MoonBay (Mar 10, 2013)

Teal1985 said:


> You're right and its the first thing he's doing when he returns from sea. I've looked into counselling locally, unfortunately for some reason here in the UK MC's are few and far between, especially ones who specialise in serial cheating etc... I suppose it's just natural to speculate myself and wonder why isn't it.


Of course it's natural to wonder why. The danger with that is that it may make you think those are acceptable reasons for his actions when, in fact, they aren't. In a way, it could make you let him off the hook instead of holding him accountable.


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## Teal1985 (May 27, 2014)

MoonBay said:


> Of course it's natural to wonder why. The danger with that is that it may make you think those are acceptable reasons for his actions when, in fact, they aren't. In a way, it could make you let him off the hook instead of holding him accountable.


Yes that's true too. It's something I've been milling over. He spoke to me on the phone and we discussed counselling, and I felt myself being positive, and backtracked and made a point of saying 'Well it doesn't make it right, I have issues with confidence etc, I don't go jumping into bed with other people to deal with it, so don't think that if you do uncover something that it makes it acceptable'... It's all been circling through my mind, he could be manipulating me, pretending, lying, it's a horrible feeling, I pray that he's not, that he's actually being sincere. I sure can pick em!


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Guys who avoid hurting people are often dishonest. They aren't being nice because they are nice but because they are conflict avoidant. Passive aggressive. They act out. Cheating is one way they act out.


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