# Divorce or stay for the kids?



## Mr. Bright Side (May 24, 2014)

Okay, here is the situation. I have been married for 15 years, but the marriage is pretty much over. I have two wonderful children... boy 9 and girl 2 and a half. The marriage has been very rocky for a long, long time and I've come to the conclusion that neither of us is going to change or wants to change. Currently, we are pretty much living as roommates. I sleep in my own bed in a different room. Basically next to zero touching for the last 7 months... its a big deal to get a hug and even then its awkward. We are civil with each other. We have a long history of arguing and bickering but in the last 7 months things have changed. There is less arguing but I think thats because we have both “checked-out”. There is no passion left so we don't have as much invested in the argument... if that makes sense. Why I say 7 months is because it really changed when she refused to let me buy her Christmas presents. I bought her a tablet and she refused it then a few weeks later, bought the exact same one. I am tired of trying to fix things and have tried for years upon years to make things better. Its never good enough. She is un-satisfiable.... by me at least. She is a good person and an excellent mother and I know she feels the same about me, but as far as the marriage goes, its dead and buried. I am 42 years old and I don't want to be living like this for the next 18 years until my children are grown and move out... but then again leaving my kids is probably the hardest thing I could ever do.

What I need to figure out, and what I am having a very difficult time deciding is, should I stay in this situation or leave? If it wasn't for my kids I would have been gone a long time ago (the second child was an accident, but of course I love my daughter very, very much). Financially, things will be VERY difficult if I leave as I will have to (want to really) give half my income as child support. I am a fairly responsible person and I feel duty bound to do so and its something I want to do, but that doesn't make it easier financially. If left I would still see my kids two or three times a week for about 4 hours each time. However, because of tight finances, I would not be able to keep them overnight. The only way I could do that, and pay half my income to child support, is to get a second full time job, which I just simply cannot do.

So from your perspective should I stay in a 'dead' marriage and thus be able to remain living with my kids or should I leave, be free from the marriage but see my kids on a much more limited basis?

Posting this on an internet forum I don't expect the “perfect” answer. However, I am trying to gather as much perspective and points of view as possible to aid in making the best decision possible. I have been thinking about this for months and months.


----------



## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

What have you tried in order to fix your marriage?


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I would recommend a book like this to help you wade through it.. 

Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship 

Ok this is going to be full of links.. in the name of FIXING... just for you to have something to chew on...

If you are both "done"..that means putting up an iron fence between yourselves...and inviting MISERY to eat you alive...what will happen in this atmosphere...one of you will get so weak emotionally ...temptation is going to take you over....and someone is going to end up in someone else's bed.. that's just the way it goes.. 

What ARE your issues... What have you been fighting about for all these years? Obviously there is deep Resentment (Unfulfilled emotional Needs) on both sides piled to the sky.. you likely need a Therapist to get you both to open up and talk rationally with each other.. 

Excellent book here to discuss the importance of these Emotional needs ... His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage  

If you want to work through it with her...it's going to take someone humbling themselves because they CARE about the marriage & happiness.. if you can't afford it financially and are not willing to go there.. you better buckle down and MOVE ON working for reconciliation ....some understanding...

Do you want your kids to feel -this is what marriage is.. a Prison sentence.. this is not OK.. and you can't hide it...they KNOW, they feel it in the air.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...l-etc-how-robs-us-intimacy-we-crave-most.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...transforming-our-marriages-relationships.html

COMMUNICATION is VITAL, the root of all that can go wrong







....know how to resolve conflict !! 

Excellent rundown on healthy communication here - Conflict is spoken here in  paragragh #5.










Every marraige will struggle if communication is not used Properly & unoffensively. The Art of not being Offended If one is a Silent Treatment holder, it IS emotionally abusive & RESENTMENT building. Passivity, Irresponsibility & Resulting Partner Anger  

Be a LISTENER as well as an effective communicator of your needs, be approachable always without a scowl. Ask questions, be open, honest in all things, understanding & learn the beauty of forgiveness ....we all have weaknesses & flaws, & loose our way sometimes. Learn humility & apologize . Forgive and Forget: Healing the Hurts We Don't Deserve 


*Vulnerability *should be acheived -excellent 20 minute video within within 1st line of this link >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...r-its-pain-its-beauty-how-vulnerable-you.html

*Validation* is important also: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/39565-validating-your-spouse.html


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I don't recommend staying only for the children. Your children will know their parents aren't happy and they will grow up thinking that's how marriage is supposed to be. That's the wrong message to give them.


----------



## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

If it is in your head to leave, do it.

There comes a point where you will either regret not leaving while you were young enough to start over or you end up leaving when it does not get any better.

Pack and go, be confident enough not to hang on to misery and to find a better future.


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Openminded said:


> I don't recommend staying only for the children. Your children will know their parents aren't happy and they will grow up thinking that's how marriage is supposed to be. That's the wrong message to give them.


I agree. The 9 year old probably already knows things aren't right because the two of you have separate bedrooms. When he watches T.V shows and goes over to friend's houses he sees that married couples sleep in the same room.


----------



## heyyoo (May 24, 2014)

can do as much or more damage by staying 
kids are always learning


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mr. Bright Side said:


> Financially, things will be VERY difficult if I leave as I will have to (want to really) give half my income as child support. I am a fairly responsible person and I feel duty bound to do so and its something I want to do, but that doesn't make it easier financially.
> 
> If left I would still see my kids two or three times a week for about 4 hours each time. However, because of tight finances, I would not be able to keep them overnight. The only way I could do that, and pay half my income to child support, is to get a second full time job, which I just simply cannot do.


Give half of your income to child support? This is not a good idea. It does not make you a good guy. It would make you someone who is playing martyr. And in doing so you will actually be abandoning most of your responsibility for participating in raising your children.

If you divorce, your children need to spend as close to 50/50 time with each of their parents. What they don’t need is to spend almost no time with their father and for him to be the martyr who just threw money at their mother for whatever reason he is rattling around in his head. If you do this, your children will not respect you.

Is your wife a SAHM? If so, she needs to do what is necessary to get a job/career going. You need to agree to pay only as much child support as the court says you have to pay. This will leave you with enough $$ so that you can also have a place where you can have your children spend 50% (or so) of their time with their father.


----------



## Mr. Bright Side (May 24, 2014)

Okay, I will add a couple of things... as I said things have been very rough for YEARS. However, we rarely, if ever yell or swear at each other. I am just not that kind of person.

Part of my concern is that if my children are raised around a dysfunctional relationship, their future relationships will be dysfunctional as well.

We've been to marriage counseling previously. The counselor wanted to see her separately and after about 3 or 4 more sessions she would not go any more. She said that he just kept focusing on all the things that were/are wrong with her and she did not want to hear it. I am willing to try counseling again, but I strongly feel its not going to prove fruitful. I just can't meet her needs as I guess she is what you call "high maintenance". Every possible thing that can be complained about is complained about. I cannot remember when the last time I have gotten a sincere compliment from her. Definitely years ago, if even then. I used to "walk on eggshells" continuously trying to not annoy her or make her angry. I tend not to do that now as, frankly, I cannot own her issues. She needs to figure herself out. I cannot do that for her. 

So... while I definitely see how it *could* be better for the kids for me to stay, having them grow up witnessing this dysfunctional marriage cannot be good for them. Plus, wouldn't it be better for them for us to get separated while they are younger?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you and your wife wanted to fix your marriage you could do it. If you were in love once, you can fall in love again. The book "His Needs, Her Needs" tells you how to do this. The book is a starting point. There is more help available if you wanted to get back to loving each other.

Most people do not want to put the work into fixing their marriage. Divorce is seems like an easy way out.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mr. Bright Side said:


> Okay, I will add a couple of things... as I said things have been very rough for YEARS. However, we rarely, if ever yell or swear at each other. I am just not that kind of person.
> 
> Part of my concern is that if my children are raised around a dysfunctional relationship, their future relationships will be dysfunctional as well.


Not all counselors are good at what they do. That's the problem with counselor's it's almost impossible to know if they are good and going to help until you have been with them for a while. Most MC's unfortunately do not work to help repair the marriage, they often focus on how to get the couple to move to a divorce.


----------



## Mr. Bright Side (May 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Give half of your income to child support? This is not a good idea. It does not make you a good guy. It would make you someone who is playing martyr. And in doing so you will actually be abandoning most of your responsibility for participating in raising your children.
> 
> If you divorce, your children need to spend as close to 50/50 time with each of their parents. What they don’t need is to spend almost no time with their father and for him to be the martyr who just threw money at their mother for whatever reason he is rattling around in his head. If you do this, your children will not respect you.
> 
> Is your wife a SAHM? If so, she needs to do what is necessary to get a job/career going. You need to agree to pay only as much child support as the court says you have to pay. This will leave you with enough $$ so that you can also have a place where you can have your children spend 50% (or so) of their time with their father.


She works part-time, I work full time. I am going to do my absolute utmost to keep this out of court, if divorce happens. I would rather my kids or their mother get the money than greedy lawyers. That said, you raise interesting points about the martyr bit.


----------



## Mr. Bright Side (May 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Most MC's unfortunately do not work to help repair the marriage, they often focus on how to get the couple to move to a divorce.



Why is that?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mr. Bright Side said:


> She works part-time, I work full time. I am going to do my absolute utmost to keep this out of court, if divorce happens. I would rather my kids or their mother get the money than greedy lawyers. That said, you raise interesting points about the martyr bit.


I am assuming that you live in the USA. The state you live in has child support guidelines. That is what you need to follow whether you go to court or not. When you have children and you get a divorce, the court gets involved. You have no choice on this.

Have you considered using a mediator instead of lawyers. They cost a whole lot less and make the divorce a lot easier. If you go to a mediator and follow the state guidelines for asset/debt division, child support and timesharing, you are pretty much assured of getting what you ask for. 

Start by researching divorce laws in your state, find out what the guidelines are. Every states has an online self-help site for legal issues to include family law and divorce.

ETA: Your wife is going to have to support herself, so she will no longer be working part time. This is even more reason why you need to be able to have your children half the time.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mr. Bright Side said:


> Why is that?


A few reasons:

It takes a very talented and well trained counselor to guide people through making the real, life-long changes that are needed to fix a relationship. Most are not that good at what they do so it's just a lot easier.

Also, even a good counselor cannot do anything with people who are not willing to look at themselves and do the hard work to make changes. Most people believe that the fault lies mostly with their spouse and are looking for confirmation of that. They are not willing to admit that they contribute at least 50% to their marital problems. So what can a counselor do but just help the couple separate and get hopefully at least put an end to the misery they are both creating.


----------



## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

OP,

Ele is correct regarding the mediator. It appears you can be more than civil to one another so why don't you find out what the guidelines are in your state and work from there with here rather than making assumptions about what will happen. I suggest you move forward with divorce and discussing options at length with one another and then taking what you have discussed to a mediator. 

I think you can make this work. Will it be perfect? No but nothing is.


----------



## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

It appears that you and your wife have already gone into the "dance of death." I forget which book it was, but when you go from frequent argumenting into the phase of peaceable indifference...then the marriage has pretty much bottomed out, given into the hopelessness that things can be restored.

It CAN be repaired, but it is going to take a massive overhaul...where behavior is changed, where forgiveness can take place, where hope for a future can be restored...and thoughts, feelings, and emotions come online to the point that one is willing to take risks for love again. Even if your wife is not on board, it is possible to do a one-sided jumpstart (kind of like in Star Wars Episode I when one of his engines go out and and he takes the charge of one engine and transfers it to the dead engine to boost it back to life) which may rouse her curiosity and regain her interest and getting here hoping again...but it is going to take some hefty behavioral changes in you...with the risk of not getting any return on your hard work.

Basically, you STOP looking to her meet your needs...STOP the expectation and dwelling on what you blame her for. In fact RELEASE IT in your heart and mind. She NO LONGER owes you anything. No grudges. Gone and clear.

Then, you do some major self-confrontation. Focus on your faults and behaviors that you haven't faced well in your life. Be the best father you can be...be the best man you can be. Change your eating, your schedule, your life. No more mindless tv or unproductive hours...get busy get involved. Do those projects you never followed through with...exercise, go for walks. If she ever wants to join you, let her, BUT NEVER bring up anything negative NEVER...cos you let it all go remember? NEVER mention the future. If she inquires about what's going on with you, just say you have been reflecting a lot and that you could do so much better, so you're doing it. KEEP her guessing. But don't play games with her or be passive aggressive...cos you're not playing anything...you are actually focusing on changing yourself and your life.

She may test you to see if you are changing. let it roll. NOTHING gets to you anymore. Fake it until you make it...until you reach the point where you feel confident, direct, calm, and intentional. If she tries to start a fight or says something rude or nasty...act like it doesn't even exist on the same radio frequency. You only treat others in respect and expect respect. Show her utmost respect, but of she is rude and b****y, then you don't respond...and not being pissy, just refusing to acknowledge disrespectful behavior. Tell her, "When you are ready to talk the matter more respectfully, I'll be happy to listen." NO more tit-for-tat arguments.

The point: Changing YOUR behavior into the man you want to become and the man that she hopes to have. If (through consistency and and visible change physically, mentally, emotionally, and behaviorally) it sparks her interest enough to reconsider her withdrawal, then she may start to show curiosity and begin to show signs of interest in the new man who was once her husband. She may try to test and poke at you to challenge your authenticity...to see if positive changes are real. IF the changes are to her liking, she may suggest bonding activities to try to work it out. Don't let this make you comfortable...keep on keeping on...but at the same time, stand firm as a challenge to her own behaviors. NO, you do not hold them against her anymore, but as a new man...you now hold new expectations for your wife...as it concerns to how she acts around you, others, and the kids. YOU are no longer acting like YOU are on the chopping block, but be sturdy and bold enough in your life and actions, to where she will start to question if SHE is in fact on the chopping block. You have raised your perceived value and worth enough for her to question hers BUT you always treat her as someone with worth...like you are a bottomless well...even of she fails to reciprocate. However, if in this process, she comes to you with valid hurts and pains caused by you, be a man and gently apologize for them and say that you don't want to be that any more. Don't be defensive, or wriggly...accept them, but don't allow her offenses be a sign you have to wear...cos you are moving on from that old life. Deeply tell her you are sorry and repeat to her that you understand how that must of made her feel. Show empathy and respect...but you are not to wallow in guilt or shame.

This IS an overhaul...easier said than done...but it is what you can do on your end to give it a last gasp try. If it fails, then hey, you did your best and you feel ready to move on. If it works out and you don't falter, then it could be the thing that changed your marriage forever.


----------

