# Chores are one area spouses ought to "act as if" single



## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

If you were a single mature adult you would have to clean, cook, shop, pay bills, work, make, track and execute scheduling responsibilities and entertainment, care for your animals, mow the lawn, arrange for or perform repairs, decorate your home and purchase and discuss girl stuff for your daughters in order to keep a civilized desirable home and your lives running smoothly. 

I see no reason whatsoever why this changes in any way because you are married. Don't expect your spouse will then take over any of these things unless they want to. Any time they do not want to, you ought to do so cheerfully and responsibly because they are fully your responsibilities to get done well and timely barring any prearranged agreement with your spouse. Never wait your spouse to do so by delaying taking action. If any responsibilities have not been performed by your spouse then take care of these mandatory responsibilities as you would have to "as if" single. 

Both spouses ought to be team players but sometimes one or both are not. This builds resentment that can be avoided if you do what must be done "as if" you were single and there is zero argument about whose job is whose job. Knock them out so you can spend your time on things that are infinitely more interesting than chores or destructively arguing about chores with your spouse

This keeps all manner of silly expectations and the silly destructive disappointments that go with expectations out of our marriage and home. 

It seems many couples blow up their marriages with growing resentment from unmet expectations that their spouse is required to baby them like their parents did. 

If this is you, try being a team player and accepting all responsibilities "as if" you were single because that is exactly what you will be if you divorce because the victim mentality resentments you allow to build because your spouse won't wait on you like a maid, butler, server, concierge, employee, caretaker or parent. 

Expectations destroy romance. Most if not all of the fun doing something thoughtful for someone that is not moved by the gesture in some way because they expect it ruins the kind, thoughtful fulfilling satisfaction for both the recipient and the provider. 

Appreciate that your spouse cooks, cleans, takes out the trash, changes the oil, or picks out new curtains or shovels snow off the walkway and they will be happier to do it again. Expecting it dissipates enthusiasm. 

If your spouse does any chore that would otherwise be yours if you were single is lovely but is sure as hell is not their job that they are required to do for you. Doing their own certainly but not your portion of it. 

Keeping score is nonsense as well. I did this three times and you only once resentments are a waste of energy that can be invested instead in romancing and deeply fulfilling quality time. 

It so happens one of my wife's love top love languages is "acts of service" so I benefit directly from any chores I do that makes her life easier. When we do them together efficiently with team work, we both consider it companionship with a quality time benefit as long as it doesn't take too long and we are striving to knock it out so we can go do something more fun together. 

It also helps the joy, romance and enthusiasm for doing chores to be flirty and amusing when working together toward the common goal of getting chores done. 

We also ask each other, do you want to cook or mow and offer to switch it up as long as it gets done. We make a list of what needs to get done and volunteer ourselves for what we are in the mood for or at least don't mind doing first and then decide together how to complete the remainder of list as a team. 

Considering gender roles in your perspective on division of chores is for the narrow minded, growth stunted types destined to be stuck in a rut of resentments , a less satisfying life and a shallower existence than is necessary. 

A larger more satisfying life is available if you would let go of the tired, predictable expectations, gender roles, fairness and equality of effort and contribution and just get the chit done so you can go have some fun together.

For the fans of alpha beta concerns, alphas get done what needs to get done including providing tenderness, feelings of safety, well-being and satisfaction for their little girls and their wives living in a well-cared for home with a man and women's touch whether there is a wife there or not. 

My wife was hospitalized for three weeks this year and was in recovery for four more. There was zero difference in the quality of how our home was kept, the food we ate and the parenting that was provided because this alpha male got done what needed to get done without concern of being viewed a beta and risking my wife's attraction for me. 

Quite the contrary. She is more attracted to me than ever because I am not insecure in my manhood nor feeling entitled to a maid because I am married. 

If you are ruining your marriage with resentments from unmet expectations, perhaps it's time to reevaluate your view of who should be doing what, start "acting as if" you are single when it comes to chores and just get it done without taking a burn to some perceived or real imbalance of fairness or effort. 

It works well at my house that we don't keep a tally on what we are or are not getting what we "expect" each other to do because of outdated gender roles or copying what parents or grand parents believed.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Pretty much agree with all of that. Some thoughts that came up.



> Appreciate that your spouse cooks, cleans, takes out the trash, changes the oil, or picks out new curtains or shovels snow off the walkway and they will be happier to do it again.


The above is very important or it will all fall apart. 



> We make a list of what needs to get done and volunteer ourselves and decide together how to complete the list as a team.


Many do not think a mature person needs a list and are vehemently against making one or even discussing it. They believe it is akin to keeping score.

Also, with SAH spouses, there needs to be some discussion as to what is expected by each. It doesn't mean the SAH has to do it all or the Non SAH spouse doesn't have to do regular chores. Many times, it does mean things are done that could have been shared, but the SAH had the time to do them. 

Interesting opening post. Seems like it's all about compatibility and communication.

Edit: My guess, from what I have read at TAM, is that most women have acts of service high on their list.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

To me an act of service ISN'T something that should be done by him ANYWAY because he is a contributing member of the household. An act of service is something above and beyond normal daily expectations, I think it's important to keep that in mind.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Livvie said:


> To me an act of service ISN'T something that should be done by him ANYWAY because he is a contributing member of the household. An act of service is something above and beyond normal daily expectations, I think it's important to keep that in mind.


Livvie, you made me think. What is the definition of an act of service in the five love languages? 

Acts of Service
Discovering how you can best do something for your spouse will require time and creativity. These acts of service like vacuuming, hanging a bird feeder, planting a garden, etc., need to be done with joy in order to be perceived as a gift of love.

"The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

I felt so strongly about this, that I had to make it a major part of a book chapter. We will never be able to reach any sort of measurable equality in a relationship. There is always some way to perceive one's partner as not holding their weight. I specifically advise individuals to drop the notion, altogether. In my relationship, we both take a swing at whatever needs to be done. Neither of us have chores assigned to us. I am still doing most of the non-baby related work, but that will approach a more equal arrangement over time. But if she doesn't do something, I will. It is all about both partners bringing theirselves into the relationship as individuals. We both try, every single day. My partner calls me "teammate" all the time.

The notion that men and women have to do certain things in a relationship is bogus, antiquated logic. We have different types of relationships now, and we are moving past this phase (self-expressive) and into a new phase, yet. We have this focus on equality, fairness, being right, when we should be focused on mindsets that engender happiness. You can be 'right' or be happy. If someone asks if I am right, I will shrug my shoulders. If they ask if I am happy, I will smile.

Great post. Really something that needed to be said.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Relationship Teacher said:


> I felt so strongly about this, that I had to make it a major part of a book chapter. We will never be able to reach any sort of measurable equality in a relationship. There is always some way to perceive one's partner as not holding their weight. I specifically advise individuals to drop the notion, altogether. In my relationship, we both take a swing at whatever needs to be done. Neither of us have chores assigned to us. I am still doing most of the non-baby related work, but that will approach a more equal arrangement over time. But if she doesn't do something, I will. It is all about both partners bringing theirselves into the relationship as individuals. We both try, every single day. My partner calls me "teammate" all the time.
> 
> The notion that men and women have to do certain things in a relationship is bogus, antiquated logic. We have different types of relationships now, and we are moving past this phase (self-expressive) and into a new phase, yet. We have this focus on equality, fairness, being right, when we should be focused on mindsets that engender happiness. You can be 'right' or be happy. If someone asks if I am right, I will shrug my shoulders. If they ask if I am happy, I will smile.
> 
> Great post. Really something that needed to be said.


I can remember being told stories about how there were articles in magazines that explained how a wife could best take care of the home. 

The same was true for the husband. There were articles for him to know how to take care of his wife and home. 

Seems like most of those had the wife taking care of the inside of the house and the laundry, vacuuming, dishes, and so forth. The husband was supposed to take care of painting, lawn care and snow removal, the automobile(s) and any minor remodeling and repairs.

Although my own mother and father were born '22 and '18 respectively, and lived through that era, I never did. All I knew was what I saw growing up. I didn't hear those stories until I was an adult and in my mid to late thirties. 

Some of that was the same, even when I was in my twenties, because the early baby boomers were taught that way, though not all did things that way. You would mostly see the husband outside doing work, though wives did work in gardens and plant flowers. 

Even my own first wife would cut the grass or do things with the car, if she needed to and I wasn't around to help. I see no issues with that. As in the OP, we have to pick up where our spouse has left off. She even did remodeling work with me.

Though, I think some men and women are better suited to one type of work or another and enjoy one or another more. 

Interesting how things change.

Edited to add: I forgot. My second wife and I worked on remodeling projects together, our motorcycles, the cars, shoveling snow and even the chores inside. Though, I quit because I never did them correctly and just stuck to the remodeling and general maintenance that she didn't have much to say about. Don't know why she didn't say anything? Maybe she didn't know how to criticize those things properly?


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

If I have to act as if I'm Single, why not be so?


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Individuals need to realize that the relationships their parents had were completely different than are possible today. While I hope and wish for my partner to be a stay-at-home-mom, that doesn't mean I leave the household work for her. Rather, she helps out while I have business commitments. I can try to force "equality" or I can be happy, romantically and sexually satisfied. Expectations are doomed to fail.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I can remember struggling with my first wife about the remodeling, after my daughter was born. I think it was before Al Gore invented the internet. The Commodore 64 may have been invented. I'm not sure. 

She wanted me to watch my daughter while she remodeled. I said, "Okay". I got her ready and went to my mum's for a visit. Boy, was she mad when I got back. I guess she wanted me to watch my daughter and teach her how to remodel? She didn't have anything done, and she gave me the hot tongue and the cold shoulder for the next few days. 

I guess it takes all kinds.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Relationship Teacher said:


> Individuals need to realize that the relationships their parents had were completely different than are possible today. While I hope and wish for my partner to be a stay-at-home-mom, that doesn't mean I leave the household work for her. Rather, she helps out while I have business commitments. I can try to force "equality" or I can be happy, romantically and sexually satisfied. Expectations are doomed to fail.


Certainly, just as I realized they were different. I didn't grow up in the Depression like my parents, but they sure did teach me some good lessons about life. 

So, when you get home, do you pick up the stuff you left lying around or do you go and do the things that she didn't? 

Give us a fer instance(an example) please, of what your day looks like?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

I have had two major relationships, first with the ex was almost 20 yrs and the current is 4 plus yrs. In both it has been about team work, if something needs to be done it gets done without stress. If there are extras to be done and either don't have the time or the will then outsourcing has been the answer.

I would no more put up with a non team member than I would be one. It really is not that hard when two people are adults and act as adults.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Never could afford to pay someone to do the work for me. What I made then, thirty years ago, would be like $9.89/hour today. Tough to pay for food, very low mortgage, oil for heat, diapers, formula, insurance on the car which was paid off, clothing, and so forth. 

I worked as often and as much as I could, so income was probably a bit more than that, cause I had a little to buy supplies for the remodeling. 

If you have never had to live like that, you can't understand it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I'd just like to say....there are still some women out there who enjoy taking pride in her home.. cooking , cleaning.. organizing, tending to the kids, serving her family.... it's her domain - when the husband is the main breadwinner, that is... 

What works for one family (given their various work schedules) , another family will have a whole different approach in who does what... and sometimes our teens pitch in too....

Some men LOVE TO cook ...my husband is not one of those... thankfully this doesn't bother me at all ... 

Our family runs very traditionally.... sometimes I almost feel I should be embarrassed to speak this ... the only time he might vacuum is if I am sick or something gets spilled when I'm not home.. My husband has thrown his own heavily soiled work clothes in to get washed - but that's about it.. 

The main idea is to keep the household running smoothly ...like a well oiled machine.. if one is more efficient & just plain better at something.... they should step up to do it, if they have more TIME... they should step up to do it...that's how we feel anyway..

We each bring our own gifts & abilities to the marriage.. we should be more than willing to use them.. making things happen... so we can lesson the load for the other...and have more quality time to spend together..







... Isn't that what ultimately we all want... 

And for those who can afford extra help...if they start fighting over these things.. they ought to just hire someone to clean their house.. get a Gardener, call the shop to get their oil changed, etc.....by all means take advantage of it !


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Hey, @SimplyAmorous, where did I say it should still be like that or that any of my life was like that? Because, that's sure what it looks like when you quoted my post. I'd appreciate it if you'd make that clear.

Edit to Add: As far as my own parents were concerned, you wouldn't want to eat dad's dinners. I've tried them when I was a kid. So, he did cook, but not often and not well, though it was edible. He also vacuumed and even washed dishes and clothes when it was necessary and mum was sick or something else was going on. 

You give folks the wrong ideas when you quote me like that SimplyAmorous. Do yourself a favor and don't assume so much. Ask if you don't know. Yes, those magazines told wives and husbands how to take care of each other, but it wasn't a gulag. 

If they didn't work together, nothing would get done. There were just more traditional roles. And I'm not saying that's good or bad. It's what was, long before I ever got married. And I guarantee you, if my first wife hadn't had me around, she wouldn't have graduated high school. No one was held back except by their own choices. 

And, yes, things are different today and there is nothing wrong with that. Even as you seem to state, unless I am mistaken, those who can do one thing better than the other spouse, likely should do those and the two should work together. 

This attitude at TAM is terrible. Assumptions abound. I hope it changes to a more friendly atmosphere.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think one of my first big surprises with Dug was how much he was willing to do around the house (actually, apartment then). 

I remember one time, early on, storing potatoes and onions next to each other under the sink. Over a couple weeks I started seeing what looked like fruit flies everywhere. 

One day I opened the door and saw the rotted mess. As I was silently groaning about cleaning it up, Dug came over and said, "Oh, I will have to clean that up." I remember turning to look at him, so surprised to hear that. I was the one who had stored them together, yet he was stepping right up to help.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

2ntnuf said:


> Hey, @SimplyAmorous, where did I say it should still be like that or that any of my life was like that? Because, that's sure what it looks like when you quoted my post. I'd appreciate it if you'd make that clear.


 My post was not meant to be taken in a personal way 2ntnuf.. if it came off this way to you.. I apologize.... 

It's just the idea that you presented being a true one - once upon a time...and how it appears to me that some aim to eradicate it all traces of it. 

I see it in many posts here.. It didn't even enter my brain that you THINK this way or that your life was this way...you was just speaking how SOCIETY FELT (at one time).. this * is* how I read your words.. 

It had nothing ever to do with you personally.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Great post @thread the needle, I agree with you and @SimplyAmorous, each party must do their best to keep the household functioning at optimal. Especially when kids involved. 

I don't mind taking a leadership role in our home because my H works 14 hours a day. When he comes in he has no time or energy for anything but me and kids.

If the house needs fixing he schedules it for the weekend. Anything I can handle, I do it. 

If I need something I let him know to do or get it. He does not read my mind, will never be able to since, I change my mind quite a bit. The important thing is when I need him, he is there.

I am raising my kids to do everything that is required to keep a home going, to meet family obligations and to learn to listen and be mindful.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> My post was not meant to be taken in a personal way 2ntnuf.. if it came off this way to you.. I apologize....
> 
> It's just the idea that you presented being a true one - once upon a time...and how it appears to me that some aim to eradicate it all traces of it.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Check back to my edited post for more information.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

2ntnuf said:


> Thank you. Check back to my edited post for more information.


 I really can't even tell what you are trying to say.. other than you take offense to what you THOUGHT I was saying.. Listen.. I regret quoting you ...and for the sake of making that blunder.. I will remove it from my post.. 

Carry on...


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## Giro flee (Mar 12, 2013)

Mr Giro travels so I do just about everything, you can't do things if you're not here. As long as he doesn't go out of his way to make my job harder, I'm good. No leaving dirty clothes on the floor, or splashing water all over the kitchen or bathroom.

I've always just figured you do what needs to be done. If I were single, or Mr Giro died, or we got divorced I would still have to do all these chores. I have some single siblings and nobody is helping them clean or mow the grass.


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

The point is to take care of your own chit instead of expect your spouse to do it from vows forward just because you are married, because of their gender or because previous generations did it that way. 

The expectation that your spouse should pick up your socks or take out the litter box or cook or clean or paint the fence simply because of their gender is a recipe for resentment. 

If you are single, you have to tend to all of your own pile of responsibilities. Marrying someone is not them signing up for inheriting any number of your responsibilities. You still ought to take care of your own pile rather than expect your spouse suddenly to inherit your life work by default. 

If there is agreement that one spouse will do x in exchange for the other doing y then that's fine. The marriage killing resentments are introduced when one spouse assumes their spouse automatically inherits their responsibilities by default because of marriage, gender or history

Pick up your own socks and if the fence needs painting grab a brush and get painting. It is not up to your spouse because of their gender or because your parents had outdated and narrow minded roles defined by tradition. 

I don't think acts of service need to be above and beyond to deserve appreciation. Thinking acts of service must be escalated above being a solid team player that can be counted on always is misguided. I believe a sense of entitlement is the problem with far too many failing marriages. 

If you are suffering from expectations and disappointments of who does what chore unless a previous promise has been made then you screwed up and need to reevaluate who ought to take care of your pile of chores. It is not your spouse without prior agreement whether you think so or not. 

I used to joke that the sexiest thing I could do for my wife was take out the trash without being asked. She always laughed and then agreed. She feels loved and supported with an acts of service that is neither fancy nor required of me since she could easily do it herself. A close second, third and fourth is helping carry in the groceries from the car and put them away when she comes thru the door with an armful, cleaning snow off her car and warming it up and brining her coffee the way she likes it. 

None are above and beyond nor expected, but she feels loved when I step up and do them.


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## Giro flee (Mar 12, 2013)

thread the needle said:


> I used to joke that the sexiest thing I could do for my wife was take out the trash without being asked. She always laughed and then agreed. She feels loved and supported with an acts of service that is neither fancy nor required of me since she could easily do it herself. A close second, third and fourth is helping carry in the groceries from the car and put them away when she comes thru the door with an armful, cleaning snow off her car and warming it up and brining her coffee the way she likes it.
> .


Oh my gosh, I love when somebody carries in groceries for me. 😍 I don't mind putting them away, but I hate unloading the trunk. The absolute worst chore is still dusting, just so tedious.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Holland said:


> I have had two major relationships, first with the ex was almost 20 yrs and the current is 4 plus yrs. In both it has been about team work, if something needs to be done it gets done without stress. If there are extras to be done and either don't have the time or the will then outsourcing has been the answer.
> 
> I would no more put up with a non team member than I would be one. It really is not that hard when two people are adults and act as adults.


In general, this is how I feel... our relationship is about team work. Combine that with a bit of flexibility and understanding thrown in for good measure. 

This thread has mentioned abandoning expectations however here's a different take on expectations. Over the last few weeks (and even months), my husband has been stressed. Granted he's been handling it well - calmly, with focus, taking action. But I have noticed how the stress permeates in small ways. Doing chores is one of them. I feel this is partly because it's not ranking high on his priorities right now with focus and time. It's not negatively impacted me or our home much. I've taken care of some extra things that he'd typically have done. Sometimes I've suggested we tackle the chore together. 

Yesterday he surprisingly thanked me for the support I've shown him and said he knows that it's stressful and impacts me too. The expectation I feel that we have, isn't around whether the dishes get done or by whom; but that we have each others back.


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

heartsbeating said:


> This thread has mentioned abandoning expectations however here's a different take on expectations.
> 
> The expectation I feel that we have, isn't around whether the dishes get done or by whom; but that we have each others back.


This thread is not abut abandoning all expectations, just the misguided expectations based on personal illusions, gender, cultural history or entitlement that someone else ought to take over your own chit automatically after the rice is thrown at he wedding.

There is nothing ill advised about expecting

1. Fidelity
2. Having Each others back
3. Ongoing investment in the pursuit of happiness and togetherness
4. Companionship

Plenty of expectations are well advised and benefit a marriage plenty fine but expecting your spouse to take over your list of responsibilities you would otherwise have as a single adult is missing the point of the thread.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

thread the needle said:


> This thread is not abut abandoning all expectations, just the misguided expectations based on personal illusions, gender, cultural history or entitlement that someone else ought to take over your own chit automatically after the rice is thrown at he wedding.
> 
> There is nothing ill advised about expecting
> 
> ...


This seems to be something you feel strongly about. I didn't miss the point of the thread. I also didn't view the thread as abandoning all expectations in other areas of marriage. 

My post was talking of how our marriage benefits from having each others back and demonstrating understanding from both perspectives at different times. It's a different type of expectation. I agree with a lot of what you wrote.


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

heartsbeating said:


> This seems to be something you feel strongly about. I didn't miss the point of the thread. I also didn't view the thread as abandoning all expectations in other areas of marriage.
> 
> My post was talking of how our marriage benefits from having each others back and demonstrating understanding from both perspectives at different times. It's a different type of expectation. I agree with a lot of what you wrote.


I appreciate that point. I just wanted to be sure I made it clear I was not suggesting to anyone to abandon all well advised expectations, only the unrealistic damaging feelings of entitlements for automatic concierge services from a spouse upon marriage.

I feel strongly about the concept because too many marriages are destroyed from resentments that come from those destructive beliefs

It seems to me, your stepping up to fill the void was an "act of service" accomplishing every day necessary chores and that was much appreciated as expressed with "words of affirmation" 

What I found most interesting in your post is you saying "surprisingly" before explaining he made a point of thanking you for it. 

It seems you have a lovely relationship so it is surprising his expressing appreciation was "surprising"


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

thread the needle said:


> I appreciate that point. I just wanted to be sure I made it clear I was not suggesting to anyone to abandon all well advised expectations, only the unrealistic damaging feelings of entitlements for automatic concierge services from a spouse upon marriage.
> 
> I feel strongly about the concept because too many marriages are destroyed from resentments that come from those destructive beliefs
> 
> ...


Surprisingly... well, we were sitting at a park with the dogs, just quietly enjoying the scenery and his 'thanks' was unexpected in that moment. In addition, I've felt moments of insecurity over the last few months with how I'm handling the stress. Together though, we're just doing the best we can.

The love languages to me, pretty much comes down to understanding.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

This is one of those odd posts where I completely agree with everything that is stated, and also thinking that you are also chasing unicorns if you think that every relationship is like this. 

Sometimes, you end up with someone that is a complete lazy fk tard. And no matter what you do, he/she just isn't going to lift a finger to help you out in the slightest. 

It floors me when I read posts where the wife or husband would rather sit on their fat lazy azz all day and expect the spouse to do absolutely everything around the home. So, what is the advise then? Act like your single and be happy that you're now the proud parent of an additional adult child? Bask in the pride that if you were single, you would just pick up this slack and do your "if I were single, then I'm going to get shat done no matter what and not rely upon help from anyone" dance?

Me? I'd think I'd end up with a criminal record after Beoych slapping the lazy out of my partner.....or more realistically, as paraphrasing a statement above by another poster....if you're working your house hold like your single....then be single.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

alphaomega said:


> It floors me when I read posts where the wife or husband would rather sit on their fat lazy azz all day and expect the spouse to do absolutely everything around the home. So, what is the advise then? Act like your single and be happy that you're now the proud parent of an additional adult child? Bask in the pride that if you were single, you would just pick up this slack and do your "if I were single, then I'm going to get shat done no matter what and not rely upon help from anyone" dance?
> 
> Me? I'd think I'd end up with a criminal record after Beoych slapping the lazy out of my partner.....or more realistically, as paraphrasing a statement above by another poster....if you're working your house hold like your single....then be single.


I think the "act as if you're single" advice works better directed toward the spouse who isn't doing anything around the house than toward the one who is. The one who's already doing most or all of the housework is already taking the position that stuff's got to get done. The one who's doing little to nothing is the one who needs to hear and understand that if they were single, they'd have to pick up their own socks or wash their own dishes and that as a functional adult they have some responsibility for their home. 

By the way, I've discovered that assuming all household responsibilities is actually much easier when single than when married. There's no extra adult around to create extra work and then complain about how I do that work.


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

alphaomega said:


> This is one of those odd posts where I completely agree with everything that is stated, and also thinking that you are also chasing unicorns if you think that every relationship is like this.


If "I thought every relationship was like this" I would not have thought there was any need for the thread so enough with the sarcastic unicorn bull$hit. There isn't anything odd here other than your completely failing to recognize the intended audience for the points made. 



alphaomega said:


> Sometimes, you end up with someone that is a complete lazy fk tard. And no matter what you do, he/she just isn't going to lift a finger to help you out in the slightest.


Right and then those misguided people come in here looking for answers as to why their spouse told them they want to separate or divorce and find the insight they need to address their destructive issues in my thread. 



alphaomega said:


> It floors me when I read posts where the wife or husband would rather sit on their fat lazy azz all day and expect the spouse to do absolutely everything around the home. So, what is the advise then? Act like your single and be happy that you're now the proud parent of an additional adult child? Bask in the pride that if you were single, you would just pick up this slack and do your "if I were single, then I'm going to get shat done no matter what and not rely upon help from anyone" dance?
> 
> Me? I'd think I'd end up with a criminal record after Beoych slapping the lazy out of my partner.....or more realistically, as paraphrasing a statement above by another poster....if you're working your house hold like your single....then be single.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No I don't recommend your exaggerated, angry and sarcastic bull$hit. I highly recommend you consider who the post was written to and for, which are the misguided folks that think marriage comes instantly with a maid and new parent they can use to absolve themselves of all adult responsibility. "It floors me" when TAM members personalize a post and miss the point and intended audience entirely. I'm glad we got you straightened out. 



Rowan said:


> I think the "act as if you're single" advice works better directed toward the spouse who isn't doing anything around the house than toward the one who is. The one who's already doing most or all of the housework is already taking the position that stuff's got to get done. The one who's doing little to nothing is the one who needs to hear and understand that if they were single, they'd have to pick up their own socks or wash their own dishes and that as a functional adult they have some responsibility for their home.


Exactly and thank you


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> Certainly, just as I realized they were different. I didn't grow up in the Depression like my parents, but they sure did teach me some good lessons about life.
> 
> So, when you get home, do you pick up the stuff you left lying around or do you go and do the things that she didn't?
> 
> Give us a fer instance(an example) please, of what your day looks like?


I am almost always doing something business or home chore related. If I come home, I do typically immediately start cleaning and planning dinner. There are some things that she has left out, and I jump on those things. It is usually I doing, as she is with the baby. But, now that we got him sleeping through the night, she is handing him to me more so that she can cook and clean. She's happy. I'm happy.

I hope this answers your question.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

thread the needle said:


> If "I thought every relationship was like this" I would not have thought there was any need for the thread so enough with the sarcastic unicorn bull$hit. There isn't anything odd here other than your completely failing to recognize the intended audience for the points made.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow! I don't think I'm the angry one here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

". I highly recommend you consider who the post was written to and for, which are the misguided folks that think marriage comes instantly with a maid and new parent they can use to absolve themselves of all adult responsibility"

So by your own admission, I obviously I did get the intended audience. What I'm saying is sometimes you get a "dud" that regardless of what you think and do, there just never going to change. 

I think you actually missed the intended audience for my post. Those that take your advise, which I already stated was spot on, but to which the end result will just never be successful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

"sarcastic unicorn bull$hit."

I like unicorns They make great reading for my daughter during story bed time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Rowan said:


> I think the "act as if you're single" advice works better directed toward the spouse who isn't doing anything around the house than toward the one who is. The one who's already doing most or all of the housework is already taking the position that stuff's got to get done. The one who's doing little to nothing is the one who needs to hear and understand that if they were single, they'd have to pick up their own socks or wash their own dishes and that as a functional adult they have some responsibility for their home.
> 
> By the way, I've discovered that assuming all household responsibilities is actually much easier when single than when married. There's no extra adult around to create extra work and then complain about how I do that work.


Good point. 

Myself, I just do everything anyways, such as you. . I never really thought about it before. 

"I think the "act as if you're single" advice works better directed toward the spouse who isn't doing anything around the house than toward the one who is."
My opinion again on this statement is that I think the people who really need the advise the most just won't hear it. They love the lazy world they live in now. Hence, a sarcastic beotch slap is needed, or some other come to jebezzus moment to step up to the plate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I have to agree with alphaomega.. he's just speaking the reality.. there are plenty of lazy people... whether they stay at home...also we've all met plenty of those types on the job too...imagine taking up housekeeping with some of them... 

The most smooth running marriages is where each individual strives to help & better the life of the other, because it enhances their own experience together... and where the other is thankful for all they bring.. but feel a great responsibility for our own role -or "chit" as you call it.. 

If everyone had this "giving" outlook in regards to how to run a household and a marriage.. most of these problems would be greatly reduced.... but still..I don't foresee all that much change being had in our world... some seem to be born with a lazy streak... if their parents allowed it to go on, not enforcing a strong co-operation work ethic in all their dealings, that "team effort" ...this does them a great dis-service to their futures. 

Living together 1st would reveal many things -on this end, to what someone is made of.. if they feel entitled to be catered to, or they have a "team" spirit. 

Then some have such BUSY lives.. they feel swamped.. no time to breathe...there was a thread yesterday about a husband doing a Residency to be a Pediatrician...he works like 60- 80 hrs a week... him & wife are having issues with who does what.. he isn't holding to what he said he would... and the problems continue...


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

alphaomega said:


> Good point.
> 
> Myself, I just do everything anyways, such as you. . I never really thought about it before.
> 
> ...


Yep. I think all too often, someone who just expects their spouse to do all the work is likely hear the message in the OP and think it's directed _at their partner _rather than themselves. 'Let go of expectations', to them, sounds like their partner needs to let go of the expectation that they're going to do anything to pitch in. If their spouse would just suck it up and do everything as if he/she were single, then there would be peace in the household. The status quo works for them, the "problem" is their partner and his/her expectations! 

Welcome to Narcissism 101!


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

alphaomega said:


> come to jebezzus moment to step up to the plate


Which is their hard working spouse saying they want to separate or divorce because they don't pull their weight. Then they come here searching for insight.

You're caught up now. 

Sometimes techniques that work for some don't work for others and especially those in the outliers. Wow that's deep. I heard Captain Obvious rides a unicorn.

Someone please direct me to the posters and sections of advice that works all the time for everyone. I have not been able to find it on my own.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I do not think most spouses are that lazy and no, I don't think you said that most are, ttn. The only part that doesn't sit right with me is this quote of your's:

"...The expectation that your spouse should pick up your socks or take out the litter box or cook or clean or paint the fence simply because of their gender is a recipe for resentment..."



I read that sentiment in the opening post and thought there must be very few out there in the U.S. of A. that actually think and or believe that. 

On the other hand, you did state something about some very lazy people who would not lift a finger to help, but still watch and complain as their spouse did all the chores. Yeah, probably some of those in the world, but I think they are in the minority, as well.

ETA: What I think happens is, the marriage goes sour in some place. One of the spouses gives up. Many times, this happens slowly, over time and little by little the marriage is undermined. The dedication of the spouses to their marriage, and this is one place where I think obligation is over the top, causes them to stay locked into complaining to others outside the marriage, and never talking about what is really behind it all. It's sort of like the sexual barometer, in a sense. When there is no help, or responsibility if you will, there is a much bigger problem. That lack of respect for themselves, in not doing any chores, is something needing addressed by the two and I believe they should include a good therapist/psychologist/whomever has the credentials and experience.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

You bring up an interesting point. Ideally, before you move in with someone, you have a division of chores conversation. But it sounds like you're talking about not leaning on each other at all for chores. 

For example, I love cooking, don't mind washing up, can tolerate vacuuming etc. and wiping counters and cleaning bathrooms because I have to. I would rather do almost ANYTHING than iron clothing. I do it for my son and some of my work stuff. I absolutely loathe it. If I ever got into a relationship where I was living with someone again, I would ask them to iron their own clothes. Maybe my partner loves gardening, which I'm not great at. Wonderful. And I cook and vacuum and stuff? I have always felt vaguely guilty for not ironing. I more or less told my now-XH that I hated ironing and would do it for him if he was sick or otherwise not able to do it for himself, but he needed to iron his own shirts. 

During my marriage to my XH, he took out garbage and sometimes helped here and there with other things but I was basically expected to do 80% of the housework. I don't know where he got this expectation from because it seemed like he agreed we should split the chores equally but he was averse to a chore schedule and wouldn't work with me on one, so he never did "his half." 

It makes no sense for me for one spouse to cook dinner and another to cook a separate dinner. Presumably you are eating dinner at the same time (work schedules permitting), so why not combine chores where possible? e.g. one cooks, and washes up, one puts on laundry or something else. Am I crazy for thinking that is how most couples do it? Or did I misunderstand what you meant by each acting as if they were single for chores?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

thread the needle said:


> If you are ruining your marriage with resentments from unmet expectations, perhaps it's time to reevaluate your view of who should be doing what, start "acting as if" you are single when it comes to chores and just get it done without taking a burn to some perceived or real imbalance of fairness or effort.


You really SHOULD go around the country enlightening the lazy ass men who think they're entitled to be waited on hand and foot simply because they were born with a penis.

Studies CLEARLY show that women still work *twice *as hard as men in marriage/cohabitation because they're stuck with 70-80% of the domestic chores around the house - while also holding down full time jobs just like their self-entitled spouses who are laying on the couch like worthless lumps of flesh and think they're too damned good to do their share.

This is one of my personal pet peeves because I've known too many of these lazy asses over the course of my lifetime.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

joannacroc said:


> It makes no sense for me for one spouse to cook dinner and another to cook a separate dinner. Presumably you are eating dinner at the same time (work schedules permitting), so why not combine chores where possible? e.g. one cooks, and washes up, one puts on laundry or something else. Am I crazy for thinking that is how most couples do it? Or did I misunderstand what you meant by each acting as if they were single for chores?


I don't think that's really what he meant. I think that he was saying that if things need to be done don't sit back and wait for your spouse to do it. Rather just get it done.

We try to live this philosophy but we also alternate cooking and things like that. We work as a team but we also need to proactively get things done.


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