# No birthday sex



## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

Not really looking for advice but yesterday was my birthday and you guessed it- I got nothing other than some good excuses. 

- I'm too tired ( the classic of course - had to use this one)

- I was going to earlier but then I fell asleep and I don't feel like it now ( same as the first excuse with a new twist)

- we just did something! (I got a handjob on Saturday night. Before that it had been two weeks since anything)

No real question or anything just venting about the ****tiness of no birthday sex. I don't know why I thought things would happen any differently than they did though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Dayum. That sucks. 

I'm on a very good "new Mommies" site and I am SHOCKED at how little important a lot of the Mother place on sex in marriage. I trying to do my part to educate but a lot of them feel like it up to the individual whether it important or not


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I am sorry your birthday was not what you hoped for. Could you talk to your wife and tell her your feelings about this? Or write something to her? She may not realize how you feel.

Also, and I realize this might sound naive, have you thought about sitting down and having a frank discussion about your expectations? Some people need clear guidelines.

I have been with dh for 20 years, but I still am learning how to please him. While he has always been happy with our sex life, I think he could have been even happier by being extremely clear and direct about what he wanted, how, and how often, rather than just letting things happen naturally (my guessing what he wanted).

They always say men are not mind readers, but women are not either. Sometimes we need to know very explicitly what your requirements are.

I have not read any of your other posts, so please disregard this if it has already been covered.

And Happy Belated Birthday!


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I feel your pain, rarely get birthday sex unless it happens to be on our regular day which in my opinion is not really birthday sex.

It would be great if talking to my wife actually ever helped. She asked me what do you want for your birthday? I said I can buy anything I need but you. You are all I want for my birthday. 

What did I get? A diner out and a promise to have sex on our regular day.


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## Code-Welder (Dec 17, 2012)

There are very few reasons a lover should not take special time to give you a gift of satisfaction on your birthday. It costs nothing and all it takes is a little effort. Sorry but this sounds like she a bit self absorbed and or worse, uncaring.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Code-Welder said:


> There are very few reasons a lover should not take special time to give you a gift of satisfaction on your birthday. It costs nothing and all it takes is a little effort. Sorry but this sounds like she a bit self absorbed and or worse, uncaring.


:iagree: An hour of your time, and not a penny spent. This would make every birthday a happy one.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> Dayum. That sucks.
> 
> I'm on a very good "new Mommies" site and I am SHOCKED at how little important a lot of the Mother place on sex in marriage. I trying to do my part to educate but a lot of them feel like it up to the individual whether it important or not


Keep after them Commited! Be an ambassador!


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## Janky (Nov 26, 2013)

I know the feeling man, had the same thing happen to me a while back.

Went out to dinner and had a great time, she flirted with me the whole night.

Got back home, she changes clothes and goes straight to bed.

I sat on the couch in total disappointment.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

jd08 said:


> Not really looking for advice but yesterday was my birthday and you guessed it- I got nothing other than some good excuses.
> 
> - I'm too tired ( the classic of course - had to use this one)
> 
> ...


I am sorry to hear this.

So what are you going to do?


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

I, for instance, don't encourage my wife to do something special for me because it's my birthday. I'm afraid it could turn into a once-a-year tradition and anything enjoyable should come up more than that.

So, no special birthday sex for me, thank you. How about special saturday night year round festivities?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

You didn't get anything you wanted for your birthday. Ignore hers when it comes - after all, you can be too tired to do anything nice, just like her! If this is a pattern regarding denying sex, then do the 180 everyone here talks about, focus on making you better and just ignore her.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Welcome to the club OP now brace yourself because I have no doubt you will soon be joining me in the Non - Coital Anniversary Club. I am still trying to figure out which one is more bothersome.


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## CASE_Sensitive (Jul 22, 2013)

It's a double edged blade. I had birthday sex a month ago and nothing since and nothing for 3 weeks before that. My brain keeps asking if it wasn't my birthday, how long would the drought be? I agree birthday sex should be special, but not at the expense of a healthy regular frequency


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Sad. I used to wake up exH with a birthday BJ. It was a tradition.

I do not get NO birthday sex. Insane in the membrane.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

jd08 said:


> Not really looking for advice but yesterday was my birthday and you guessed it- I got nothing other than some good excuses.
> 
> - I'm too tired ( the classic of course - had to use this one)
> 
> ...


I know the feeling. I got, "I have cramps." At least the dinner was decent.


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## daffodilly (Oct 3, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I am sorry to hear this.
> 
> *So what are you going to do?*


This is the important question. 

Not the first time you have posted about this kind of thing, and your wife has no incentive to change because she has nothing to lose by treating you this way.


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## dblkman (Jul 14, 2010)

committed4ever said:


> Dayum. That sucks.
> 
> I'm on a very good "new Mommies" site and I am SHOCKED at how little important a lot of the Mother place on sex in marriage. I trying to do my part to educate but a lot of them feel like it up to the individual whether it important or not


you need to have a mandatory class for them :smthumbup:


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

I don't know. I honestly don't. I've had the talk, it doesn't help. She has told me she doesn't understand why sex is so
Important to me. What else can I do? Leaving with two small children in the house seems almost too selfish. 




daffodilly said:


> This is the important question.
> 
> Not the first time you have posted about this kind of thing, and your wife has no incentive to change because she has nothing to lose by treating you this way.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Make sure you remember this on her birthday. Don't make it worse by rewarding her bad behavior. Remember we teach people how to treat us.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

My second wife was on the cold side. Not real emotional and as tome went on, it got worse.

My birthday was on a Sunday and I got up and fixed the kid breakfast and got a cup of coffee and read the Sunday paper.

My wife got up about an hour later, came into the dining room with her toast and tea, sat down, ate it and said, "I didn't have time to get you a birthday card", but she had time to go out Saturday night with her friends from work.

I looked at her, thought about it for a couple minuets and said, "Ya know, sometimes there are things that are better off left unsaid.", and got up and left. It pissed me off to no end. I didn't ask for a present or a card for that matters but the idea that she couldn't take five minuets to stop a the store and buy a card or say Happy Birthday. She knew I was pissed.

I came home later that day and was up stairs in the bedroom watching TV and she came home and gave me a birthday card and another card that said she was sorry. I accepted both and thanked her but they meant nothing. 

If it took me getting hurt feelings for the way she conducted herself for her to get these cards, they had no meaning. it didn't come from the heart or mind, it was just to keep peace and to relieve herself from looking bad. 

Wasn't much later when I handed her walking papers and ended it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Sad. I used to wake up exH with a birthday BJ. It was a tradition.
> 
> I do not get NO birthday sex. Insane in the membrane.


DAMMMM!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Sad. I used to wake up exH with a birthday BJ. It was a tradition.
> 
> I do not get NO birthday sex. Insane in the membrane.


*Sounds exactly like my skanky XW. I asked her countless times to awaken me with a BJ. No such luck. "Oh," she said, "with your reflex actions and all, you'd probably end up kicking me!" 

Then after our separation, I was supplied with and read one her FB posts to one of her BF's, " So, how'd you enjoy me waking you up this morning while bobbing, sliding and slathering, down 'the Matterhorn'?"

Looks like her "good stuff" was definitely reserved for the BF's!*


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

Janky said:


> I know the feeling man, had the same thing happen to me a while back.
> 
> Went out to dinner and had a great time, she flirted with me the whole night.
> 
> ...


That is awful.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

It's happened here too. I feel ya bro.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Sucks man. If any consolation, I don't think I have EVER gotten birthday sex in 21 years of marriage. 

Think I've seen your story but did you talk to her about it?

EDIT: Ahh, yes ... I see you've had "the talk". Yeah, my wife doesn't understand why it's important to me either. Wish I had an answer for you.


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## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

jd08 said:


> Not really looking for advice but yesterday was my birthday and you guessed it- I got nothing other than some good excuses.
> 
> - I'm too tired ( the classic of course - had to use this one)
> 
> ...


I feel your pain...on my 22nd anniversary in October my wife wiggled out of it. First time in all our years together. It was quite deflating to say the least.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

jd08 said:


> I don't know. I honestly don't. I've had the talk, it doesn't help. She has told me she doesn't understand why sex is so
> Important to me. What else can I do? Leaving with two small children in the house seems almost too selfish.


Buy her the book His Needs Her Needs. Its hugely eye opening for both of you. After my W denied me on our 22nd Anniversary for a very ridiculous reason, and was the final straw in a long battle with near-sexless for months. I bought it and read it cover-to-cover (she's not found the time yet :-() and she is definitely responding to my simple changes. This is not to say that it will be our solution, nor yours. I hope for a speedy resolution for you.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## 1971 (Mar 7, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Sucks man. If any consolation, I don't think I have EVER gotten birthday sex in 21 years of marriage.


I would have to agree, I don't think I've EVER had birthday sex.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

jd08 said:


> I don't know. I honestly don't. I've had the talk, it doesn't help. She has told me she doesn't understand why sex is so
> Important to me. What else can I do? Leaving with two small children in the house seems almost too selfish.
> 
> You have to do whatever makes you happy. She is not in charge of your happiness. She does not need to know why it is so important, although there are a thousand books and web sites to enlighten her. Truth is people that say they don't understand are lying, you would have to be of a third world country to not understand that a man needs sex to feel loved
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

She wants to go out on a date tonight. I'm still mad at her and don't really want to go. She just expects me to act like everything is fine. I don't know how to react
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

arbitrator said:


> Then after our separation, I was supplied with and read one her FB posts to one of her BF's, " So, how'd you enjoy me waking you up this morning while bobbing, sliding and slathering, down 'the Matterhorn'?"


 Horrible. And she posted that on Facebook for the world to see? OMG. WTF?



JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Sucks man. If any consolation,* I don't think I have EVER gotten birthday sex in 21 years of marriage. *





1971 said:


> I would have to agree, I don't think I've EVER had birthday sex.


Oh gawd. It's an epidemic! I feel for you guys. 



jd08 said:


> She wants to go out on a date tonight. I'm still mad at her and don't really want to go. She just expects me to act like everything is fine. I don't know how to react
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell her, "Woman, I want to get laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaid!"


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Jd08...why so you can reward her and meet her needs when she clearly doesn't find your needs and wants a priority. I think she is testing you....I forget what its called. Heck my hubby still brings me catalogs with pictures as hints for what he wants for presents....sex is a given!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I wouldn't take her out. It's rewarding bad behavior. We teach people how to treat us. If she want to go out tell her to reverse the date. You get laid BEFORE dinner. Then you'll take her out.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

jd08 said:


> She wants to go out on a date tonight. I'm still mad at her and don't really want to go. She just expects me to act like everything is fine. I don't know how to react
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would apply the dating rule. If a woman you were dating treated you this way, would you take her out on another date? I suspect not. So I would tell her exactly this.

Then be sure to go out with some friends and have fun.


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## daffodilly (Oct 3, 2011)

jd08 said:


> She wants to go out on a date tonight. I'm still mad at her and don't really want to go. She just expects me to act like everything is fine. I don't know how to react
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't you DARE take her out. If you do, you are equally at fault for the state of your relationship as she is.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

daffodilly said:


> Don't you DARE take her out. If you do, you are equally at fault for the state of your relationship as she is.



I agree with this. If she treats you badly and you respond by taking her to dinner then it's your fault when she treats you badly again.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Doesn't sound like anything has changed much from your earlier threads? She will continue on her usual path until you tell her to find a new path.


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

Nothing has changed. I have a constant resentment that is crushing me. I've been mad at her for two days straight. 



Openminded said:


> Doesn't sound like anything has changed much from your earlier threads? She will continue on her usual path until you tell her to find a new path.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> :Oh, Horrible. And she posted that on Facebook for the world to see? OMG. WTF?


*Not exactly, Jelly! To her credit, it was found in her FB privately saved stash, along with a plethora of other saved memos, both to and from her OM. Guess they were of some sentimental value to her at the time.

Another posting of particular and intense interest to me is one where she posted up a photo to him, along with the message, "Thought I'd show this to you, but please don't tag me ~ too many of Arbitrator's friends would see it!" This was posted up about a month prior to the beginning of our mutually-agreed-to "trial separation." The "Matterhorn" commentary, however, was posted up roughly a week following the actual separation. It's rather obvious that she didn't exactly let a whole lot of grass grow under her feet!

But isn't it absolutely amazing how a good PC detective can actually ferret that good stuff out?
*


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Sorry to hear about that, Arb. You are much better off w/o her.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

jd08 said:


> Nothing has changed. I have a constant resentment that is crushing me. I've been mad at her for two days straight.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So what are you going to do?


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

What can I do? I could stay and go to counseling or I can leave with two young kids. I don't know if counseling will help. She says I need counseling to " understand women" and that I need to talk to someone about my resentment (caused by her) so that's where we are starting from. That
Leaves me with the option and divorce or staying and being miserable. 



Tall Average Guy said:


> So what are you going to do?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

jd08 said:


> Not really looking for advice but yesterday was my birthday and you guessed it- I got nothing other than some good excuses.
> 
> - I'm too tired ( the classic of course - had to use this one)
> 
> ...


This is a shame

A) that you have to ask
B) that even though you do have to ask, she doesn't give a poo.

Solution: cut down the housekeeping money. When she asks for more:

-I was going to give you more, but then I spent it on myself, and I don't feel like giving you any money now.

-All this talk about money is giving me a headache.

-But I gave you some last month!!

Fight fire with fire


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Housekeeping money?

Damn, I wish I had housekeeping money.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

jd08 said:


> What can I do? I could stay and go to counseling or I can leave with two young kids. I don't know if counseling will help. She says I need counseling to " understand women" and that I need to talk to someone about my resentment (caused by her) so that's where we are starting from. That
> Leaves me with the option and divorce or staying and being miserable.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Counseling isn't for figuring out women, it's for figuring out yourself and your own relationship. Sounds like counseling might be a good idea for both of you together. Better yet, counseling with a sex therapist.

If she's not willing to meet you halfway, I'd say don't discount divorce as an option. I understand you don't want to go that route with small kids, but raising kids in a dysfunctional home is just modeling that behavior for them as normal.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Housekeeping money?
> 
> Damn, I wish I had housekeeping money.


Withhold sex till you get some.

Have you learnt nothing from TAM?


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Through 12 years of marriage, I never knew there was "Birthday Sex." Well, until this year anyway. What a great discovery. So glad I finally got out of that. I felt just like you do. Two small kids. Kinda felt like a selfish reason to leave, but man life is short! 

Best part was when my GF said after, "I think I like fvcking a 39 year old!"


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

jd08 said:


> Nothing has changed. I have a constant resentment that is crushing me. I've been mad at her for two days straight.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sorry to hear things have not improved. The problem is that for her things are fine (I assume) and for you they aren't and haven't been and won't be as long as she continues the path she's on.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

TheStranger said:


> I, for instance, don't encourage my wife to do something special for me because it's my birthday. I'm afraid it could turn into a once-a-year tradition and anything enjoyable should come up more than that.
> 
> So, no special birthday sex for me, thank you. How about special saturday night year round festivities?


Totally agree with this. Why should a birthday be so special re sex? If you are in a good and happy marriage then it shouldnt take a birthday for your wife to have sex with you.
If you have sex 2-3 times a week anyway but on your birthday she, say, wakes you up with a BJ, then lucky you!

But if you are, as many men (and women) are, in a sexless marriage then birthday sex is an insult.

"I'll have sex with you because its your birthday"....my attitiude would be "no thanks" at best and something like "Oh why don't you just fu*k right off" at worst.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Sad. I used to wake up exH with a birthday BJ. It was a tradition.
> 
> I do not get NO birthday sex. Insane in the membrane.


Ex-wife...never any birthday sex, hell, never, and I mean literaly never a bj.

STBW...morning sex, late morning road head, outdor sex in the afternoon, bedroom sex before bed.

ETA: I honeslty never really thought about the whole birtday sex thing until I asked my STBW about it, and she was absolutely stunned that I had never had it. For her, it was just a given. An assumed thing, as plain as the sky is blue. I made sure to carry on the tradition on her birthday of course


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

usmarriedguy said:


> I feel your pain, rarely get birthday sex unless it happens to be on our regular day which in my opinion is not really birthday sex.


Some people's tolerance thresholds are very different from mine. 

I have to agree with those who say there should be no such obligation as "birthday sex". I have never even heard of it. Ditto for "regular day" sex as in regularly scheduled sex.

Sex should be anytime of the morning noon night on any day at all. Preferably, every day.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

jd08 said:


> What can I do? I could stay and go to counseling or I can leave with two young kids. I don't know if counseling will help. She says I need counseling to " understand women"


Then tell her she needs to go to counseling with you to "understand men". Fair is fair.



> _and that I need to talk to someone about my resentment (caused by her) so that's where we are starting from. That
> Leaves me with the option and divorce or staying and being miserable. _


No, you still have the counseling option. As Fozzy mentioned, marriage counseling isn't about fixing one person over the other. Some people think of it like Judge Judy, where one person stands in judgement after hearing both sides. It isn't like that (or at least, it's not like that with a good marriage counselor). The primary purpose is to find strategies to help you both resolve your conflicts peacefully. If you emphasize that side of it, then maybe your wife will go. Sounds like you both need it big time; and that's not meant to be insulting to either of you.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Theseus said:


> usmarriedguy said:
> 
> 
> > I feel your pain, rarely get birthday sex unless it happens to be on our regular day which in my opinion is not really birthday sex.
> ...


It's not that it's an obligation but for some of us, sex doesn't happen often so it would be nice that at least on this one day that is supposed to be special, our spouse shows some interest in making it special.

Reminds me of my recent 21st anniversary. I gave her a gift and got none in return. I sent her a few texts during the day with 'I love you's and only received a text in return that said 'thank you'. Her mom was in town so that night I went to bed alone, not even a kiss or a hug, while she sat in the living room watching tv with her mom until 1 in the morning. 

She will not leave our marriage but yes, we are done. I don't care if I live the rest of my life alone, anything is better than sharing everything with someone who takes it all for granted

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> Dayum. That sucks.
> 
> I'm on a very good "new Mommies" site and I am SHOCKED at how little important a lot of the Mother place on sex in marriage. I trying to do my part to educate but a lot of them feel like it up to the individual whether it important or not


Sounds like you are very,very wise:toast: Sadly, it's because these types of women don't want to make the effort to change. They don't really want to learn about their husband's sexuality and needs.

Then down the road when their husband has a porn addiction/cheats/divorces them because they have been sexually starved in the marriage, they will act completely shocked and still blame the husband.:banghead:issed::banghead:issed:


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

jd08 said:


> Not really looking for advice but yesterday was my birthday and you guessed it- I got nothing other than some good excuses.
> 
> - I'm too tired ( the classic of course - had to use this one)
> 
> ...


:birthday:

So sorry for you, has this happened before or has she changed?


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## badcompany (Aug 4, 2010)

committed4ever said:


> Dayum. That sucks.
> 
> I'm on a very good "new Mommies" site and I am SHOCKED at how little important a lot of the Mother place on sex in marriage. I trying to do my part to educate but a lot of them feel like it up to the individual whether it important or not


Good for you commited. As one of the "forgotten" after we had had kids, I think this is all too common. To have happy kids they need to have happy parents.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Janky said:


> I know the feeling man, had the same thing happen to me a while back.
> 
> Went out to dinner and had a great time, she flirted with me the whole night.
> 
> ...


Guess I'm not the only one this happens to. Go out on date night, have great time, get home and talk to sitter about how kids were, then go upstairs and put your flannel pj's on and tell me how tired you are. Next week, another date night, we even talk about having sex, then when we get home, she tells me she has cramps. 

Now when we go out, she prepares by telling me she has a headache, cramps, doesn't feel good, etc. 

Our anniversary is next month, which is the one day she'll consent to sex. I'll just tell her that I'm too tired. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> Dayum. That sucks.
> 
> I'm on a very good "new Mommies" site and I am SHOCKED at how little important a lot of the Mother place on sex in marriage. I trying to do my part to educate but a lot of them feel like it up to the individual whether it important or not


For whatever reason there are a lot of married women that just kind of assume that all married couples rarely have sex. It doesn't help that they seem to befriend one another to further this notion of thinking. My wife used to try and talk some sense into them but now she thinks its futile. 

Just last week a neighbor's wife was over visiting my wife and commented about a reality show where the husband was expecting sex once a week. She commented how that was way too much, and nobody does it that much. My wife challenged this and she looked at her like she was alien. You just can't explain the importance of sex to someone that sex isn't important to.


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## Janky (Nov 26, 2013)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Guess I'm not the only one this happens to. Go out on date night, have great time, get home and talk to sitter about how kids were, then go upstairs and put your flannel pj's on and tell me how tired you are. Next week, another date night, we even talk about having sex, then when we get home, she tells me she has cramps.
> 
> Now when we go out, she prepares by telling me she has a headache, cramps, doesn't feel good, etc.
> 
> ...


The problem is that it doesnt work the other way around.

If you deny her sex, thats what she wanted anyways 

In my situation, I began to disconnect emotionally from her.

A month later she had the nerve to say she didnt want to have sex with me because we didnt have an emotional connection.

Well hell, it didnt seem to matter before, lol.

Luckily im not with her anymore and have to hear all the bs excuses for no intimacy.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Janky said:


> The problem is that it doesnt work the other way around.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actually the problem is that he's training her to not have sex. Every time she denies him he takes her out to dinner. Rewarding bad behavior. If I had to guess id bet he punishes good behavior in some way, like passive aggressively saying no when she finally does give it up. Remember we teach people how to treat us. It's like a dog you give a treat to every time it craps in the living room.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> For whatever reason there are a lot of married women that just kind of assume that all married couples rarely have sex. It doesn't help that they seem to befriend one another to further this notion of thinking. My wife used to try and talk some sense into them but now she thinks its futile.
> 
> Just last week a neighbor's wife was over visiting my wife and commented about a reality show where the husband was expecting sex once a week. She commented how that was way too much, and nobody does it that much. My wife challenged this and she looked at her like she was alien. You just can't explain the importance of sex to someone that sex isn't important to.


Your neighbors wife's attitude is the same as my wife. Two of her friends sleep in separate rooms from their husbands, so they obviously never have sex (we're in the same bed at least), so she thinks that not having sex is normal. Another friend will give her husband an occasional BJ, but to hear her talk about it, it's more of a duty. All I hear is how much of a "chore" sex is and how it's "too much work".


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Actually the problem is that he's training her to not have sex. Every time she denies him he takes her out to dinner. Rewarding bad behavior. If I had to guess id bet he punishes good behavior in some way, like passive aggressively saying no when she finally does give it up. Remember we teach people how to treat us. It's like a dog you give a treat to every time it craps in the living room.


To be honest, I don't even bring it up. We go out to get a good meal and get a break from the kids. Anymore I don't expect sex, so I can't say she's being rewarded for bad behavior. When you've had sex three times in three years and you hear your spouses friend talk about how she would be happy to go the rest of her life without sex and your spouse nods in agreement, you learn to keep expectations to below zero.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

ChargingCharlie said:


> To be honest, I don't even bring it up. We go out to get a good meal and get a break from the kids. Anymore I don't expect sex, so I can't say she's being rewarded for bad behavior. When you've had sex three times in three years and you hear your spouses friend talk about how she would be happy to go the rest of her life without sex and your spouse nods in agreement, *you learn to keep expectations to below zero*.


That is probably the saddest thing I've ever seen. You sound broken. She's got you gut hooked and she knows it. You can pull the hook out. It hurts like a b!tch, but it can be done.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Actually the problem is that he's training her to not have sex. Every time she denies him he takes her out to dinner. Rewarding bad behavior. If I had to guess id bet he punishes good behavior in some way, like passive aggressively saying no when she finally does give it up. Remember we teach people how to treat us. It's like a dog you give a treat to every time it craps in the living room.



No, that is not correct. He did not take her out to diner because she did not have sex. They went on a date night and there was no sex afterwards. 

Certainly going out on a date night again with no expectation that sex will occur would set a trend or a standard that sex does not need to be a part of date night. But that is not rewarding bad behavior since there is no rule that sex has to be a part of date night.

By this reasoning, any civil act toward the spouse can be viewed as rewarding bad behavior. In fact short of immediately walking out the door you are rewarding bad behavior. While there is some truth to this I don't know if every man really wants to leave over lack of sex or does not at least want to make an effort to work things out before going to that extreme.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Janky said:


> The problem is that it doesnt work the other way around.
> 
> If you deny her sex, thats what she wanted anyways
> 
> ...


Catch 22. A man loses his emotional connection with his wife because they don't have sex. The wife then won't have sex because there is no emotional connection.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

I Don't Know said:


> That is probably the saddest thing I've ever seen. You sound broken. She's got you gut hooked and she knows it. You can pull the hook out. It hurts like a b!tch, but it can be done.


I don't think I would say that I'm broken. I've just learned to manage expectations. She doesn't like sex, so there's no point in me worrying about it, because if she does consent to sex, it's strictly duty sex, and I want no part of that. She's gotten a bit better in other ways, so hopefully that's next


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Your neighbors wife's attitude is the same as my wife. Two of her friends sleep in separate rooms from their husbands, so they obviously never have sex (we're in the same bed at least), so she thinks that not having sex is normal. Another friend will give her husband an occasional BJ, but to hear her talk about it, it's more of a duty. All I hear is how much of a "chore" sex is and how it's "too much work".


Women like this definitely have a tendency of finding one another. It helps them to see their behavior as normal. They also probably feel sorry for women that have normal sex lives because its inconceivable that someone might actually enjoy sex. To some it goes past viewing it as a "duty", they actually see sex as a violation. Are you happy with your relationship? Sorry if that comes across as a dumb question.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

jd08 said:


> *That Leaves me with the option and divorce or staying and being miserable.*


EXACTLY! So what are you going to do about it in 2014?

If you're waiting for her to have an epiphany, you're wasting your time. She is PERFECTLY satisfied with life the way it is (if only YOU would shut up and quit harping about sex!)

She has NO INCENTIVE to change...EVER.

She's married.
She's got her 2 kids.
She's got her home, and clothes and lifestyle.
She doesn't have sex because she doesn't want to.
She goes out to dinner w/her husband when she wants.
From where I sit, she looks pretty fat & happy! 

How about you? Oh! That's right...

You're married.
You've got 2 kids.
You've got your home and clothes and lifestyle (the way your W likes it, no doubt).
You don't have sex because your W doesn't want it.
You go out to dinner w/W to keep the peace.
From where I sit, you look like a nice, fat wallet.

You're worried that divorce will damage your children. What about viewing this "marriage" they're witnessing where the husband is soul-crushed, ignored, superfluous (except for paying the bills) and the wife is a dictator whose whims must be met with a smile? Picture your son/daughter (whichever gender(s) you have) in 20-30 years...lovely picture, no?

YOU have a RESPONSIBILITY to show them how HEALTHY ADULTS live. If you don't, you are condemning them to this same lifestyle/marriage in their own futures. Would you want YOUR FATE for your son? Would you want your daughter to become just like YOUR WIFE?

If not, then stop it NOW! Wife goes with you to MC and agrees to actively and IMMEDIATELY start making substantive changes or you should get out and find a woman who TRULY loves you; who TRULY values YOUR needs as much as her own; who sees herself as an EQUAL with you, not a 'Princess' to be won and obeyed. She's not DOING YOU A FAVOR by granting you the occasional bit of sex! She should WANT to be exploring/enjoying your JOINT sexuality as part of growing stronger, happier, closer, more confident as a COUPLE who will together LEAD their family and themselves into a happy united future.

If she won't change, GET OUT for your self-respect, for your future and for your children's future. An intact family full of frustration, anger, resentment, cynicism, one-sidedness is NOT going to be the wonderful childhood you hoped they'd have. With someone else, you have a chance for a happy, productive, mutually agreeable, caring PARTNERSHIP to show your children.


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

I agree change is needed and MC is the only way to see if she's serious or not. I will not let her hold me hostage or dictate my happiness in 2014. 



SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> EXACTLY! So what are you going to do about it in 2014?
> 
> If you're waiting for her to have an epiphany, you're wasting your time. She is PERFECTLY satisfied with life the way it is (if only YOU would shut up and quit harping about sex!)
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> Women like this definitely have a tendency of finding one another. It helps them to see their behavior as normal. They also probably feel sorry for women that have normal sex lives because its inconceivable that someone might actually enjoy sex. To some it goes past viewing it as a "duty", they actually see sex as a violation. Are you happy with your relationship? Sorry if that comes across as a dumb question.


Agree with your point about how women like this find each other. Mine doesn't view it as a violation, but people that have a lot of sex are freaks to her. 

Am I happy? Put it this way - if I knew then what I know now, I never would have gone out with her, let alone get married


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

I told her tonight we are getting MC. She is so oblivious she says she isn't unhappy and doesn't know why I am. Guess we'll see how MC shakes out. She can work on making me happy or it's done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Wow! She admits that she can't even see/understand your POV because "SHE's HAPPY!"

Dammmn! That is one self-involved woman!


ETA: Since HER world revolves around her, could she make the sun set in the East tonight....just for shyts and grins? (j/k)


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> EXACTLY! So what are you going to do about it in 2014?
> 
> If you're waiting for her to have an epiphany, you're wasting your time. She is PERFECTLY satisfied with life the way it is (if only YOU would shut up and quit harping about sex!)
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Nailed it!:smthumbup:

My wife is LD and I am High end HD. If I don't initiate, for whatever reason, she will once or twice a week.

She does so from understanding that sex is a priority for me and therefore a priority for our marriage. She also loves me and even if she isn't as high drive as me, she truly enjoys pleasing me.
OP, your posts are becoming encouraging. You don't have to settle.
I was never as bad off as you but before it got there Mrs. Conan and I have had some very "real" conversations to remedy our situation before it got too bad.

She is good at calling me out when I am not meeting her needs as well and I have become better at listening to her concerns and making sure I do my part as well.
Didn't want to make it sound one sided, marriage takes 2, (in most states ).


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## daffodilly (Oct 3, 2011)

jd08 said:


> I told her tonight we are getting MC. She is so oblivious she says she isn't unhappy and *doesn't know why I am.* Guess we'll see how MC shakes out. She can work on making me happy or it's done.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I call bullsh!t on her claiming she doesn't know why you're not happy. She knows damn well, but then that would be admitting that she has a hand in this. 

Make sure you find an MC who values sex in a marriage. Might even be good if you found a woman on this page....your wife needs to see that her view on sex, from a woman's perspective, is NOT typical and that sex and meeting someone's needs are just as important as meeting hers.

Please don't allow her to continue to stick her head in the sand. I'd even bring up with the MC how she runs to mom with all her complaints...would be a good idea to agree with MC that what is discussed in MC _stays_ between you two...no MIL involvement.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

usmarriedguy said:


> No, that is not correct. He did not take her out to diner because she did not have sex. They went on a date night and there was no sex afterwards.
> 
> Certainly going out on a date night again with no expectation that sex will occur would set a trend or a standard that sex does not need to be a part of date night. But that is not rewarding bad behavior since there is no rule that sex has to be a part of date night.
> 
> By this reasoning, any civil act toward the spouse can be viewed as rewarding bad behavior. In fact short of immediately walking out the door you are rewarding bad behavior. While there is some truth to this I don't know if every man really wants to leave over lack of sex or does not at least want to make an effort to work things out before going to that extreme.


This is why I am skeptical of MMSLP. Athol Kay seems to push the idea that the male needs to run a deficit within the marriage when it comes to showing care, affection, showing kindness, etc. The message that I see from him is 1) must have a higher sex rank than your wife so that she feels pressured please you coupled with 2) the guy must do less than she does to reinforce that the guy is more valuable than the girl.

I guess if you are a nice guy, it helps to rebalance the relationship. Otherwise, if you already have self worth, communicate effectively and are not afraid to stand up for yourself...using Athol will make your marriage "interesting"...


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

ChargingCharlie said:


> I don't think I would say that I'm broken. I've just learned to manage expectations. She doesn't like sex, so there's no point in me worrying about it, because if she does consent to sex, it's strictly duty sex, and I want no part of that. She's gotten a bit better in other ways, so hopefully that's next


Yeah, I'm not saying totally beat down. Just like a horse being saddle broken. At first they're like "No freakin way I'm wearing this thing!!" But then they learn to accept it as the norm. And I'm not saying you're doing the wrong thing by accepting things as they are. That's for you to decide. 

And I'm with you 100% on the duty sex. It's probably more hurtful than no sex, IMO.


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

I sent her some articles to read about a man's sex drive and the reason that men need sex to feel connected and secure with their wife. She said it helped her understand better where I was coming from. We are also going to do some more reading together. I think seeing it from a different source is helping so far. After she read a little and we talked again, we had a nice time in the shower last night other than she might be a little sore from when I accidentally put her against the wall too hard at one point - oops.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alecto (Sep 16, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> This is why I am skeptical of MMSLP. Athol Kay seems to push the idea that the male needs to run a deficit within the marriage when it comes to showing care, affection, showing kindness, etc. The message that I see from him is 1) must have a higher sex rank than your wife so that she feels pressured please you coupled with 2) the guy must do less than she does to reinforce that the guy is more valuable than the girl.
> 
> I guess if you are a nice guy, it helps to rebalance the relationship. Otherwise, if you already have self worth, communicate effectively and are not afraid to stand up for yourself...using Athol will make your marriage "interesting"...


MMSL is directed at whichever partner is unhappy and looking for more out of their marriage. There are many women there too and they have to increase their sex rank if they're not getting what they want and need from their husbands.

The idea of birthday sex is a classic blunder in perspective for many people. A woman (or man for that matter) who isn't interested in sex on any other day isn't going to suddenly be interested on your birthday. So would you rather improve yourself to be desirable every day or have a spouse who just throws you a bone because it's a special date on the calendar?


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## jillywilly143 (Dec 27, 2013)

Today is my husband's birthday, and he was also expecting birthday sex. I can give you a few reasons why he did not get it, and hopefully this will give you some insight. And then, maybe you can share it with him, cause he doesn't get it when I say it. 

1. When I am expected to have sex for a special occasion, such as a birthday, it feels like a chore. There is nothing arousing about your husband reminding you it is his birthday with a wink and a "you know that that means.."

2. When we do have sex, I'm not sure he realizes that I want to be having sex, too. For some reason, he does not see the double standard in expecting a bj every time we do it, but he only goes down on my once or twice a year. 

3. When I do actually have a valid reason for not wanting to do it, (working 10 hours then working on my full course load of homework, cooking dinner, putting our son to sleep, and then sitting next to him hoping for a video game match to be over in enough time for me to have a conversation before I literally pass out in the chair, then asking me for sex.) he whines, or sulks. That could not be less sexy. 

4. Sometimes, to avoid the sulking, I do it anyway. Then it feels like a chore. No thanks. 

5. Recently, my husband has started smoking again. It has been a year and a half of none, and I am acclimated to the clean smell. I literally do not want to be touched, kissed, or anywhere near him when he smells. This is not limited to smoking. There are times when he has not showered, or he has worn the same clothes for a couple of days. Gross. 

6. "Hey, lets "cuddle," doesn't do it for me. Maybe get off your gaming chair and convince me with your body.

Ultimately, sex has to be something desired by both people. It is unfair to expect it just because it is your birthday. If you can't convince your spouse to have sex with you any day by touching and kissing, there may be a reason. (See above.)

I'm not saying any of these are your issues, but if any sound familiar, a quick fix could fix your sex life.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

john1068 said:


> Buy her the book His Needs Her Needs. Its hugely eye opening for both of you. After my W denied me on our 22nd Anniversary for a very ridiculous reason, and was the final straw in a long battle with near-sexless for months. I bought it and read it cover-to-cover (she's not found the time yet :-() and she is definitely responding to my simple changes. This is not to say that it will be our solution, nor yours. I hope for a speedy resolution for you.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


I read that book after DH turned from a very affectionate person into a cold stranger with me. I had all the excuses in the book for not having sex. I thought it was my body and why should I force myself into having sex when I didn't want it. He completely stopped trying and I'd complain that he wasn't affectionate and he'd tell me he couldn't be affectionate with no sex, that it was easier for him to have no contact than a little. At my wits end with trying to force myself to have a higher sex drive, which was just impossible, I came to forums and read books etc, but that book was what really opened my eyes. I realised that I expected him to meet my needs but wouldn't meet his. Add to that reading all these posts from unhappy men. 

I just started to make the effort from that point. Even though I'd be tired etc and not actually in 'the mood', I'd initiate sex (because he wouldn't anymore). Luckily for me I've never actually had any problems having orgasms, even when tired or whatever.

Fast forward and I'm having to work on him initiating with me, but at least he's back to being very affectionate. He even got his xmas wish of a 69er, though I was a little reluctant I have to admit, lol.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

I Don't Know said:


> Yeah, I'm not saying totally beat down. Just like a horse being saddle broken. At first they're like "No freakin way I'm wearing this thing!!" But then they learn to accept it as the norm. And I'm not saying you're doing the wrong thing by accepting things as they are. That's for you to decide.
> 
> And I'm with you 100% on the duty sex. It's probably more hurtful than no sex, IMO.


Yep, duty sex is the suck. We have sex on our anniversary, and she'll talk about how we should do it more often, but they're just words to me. If she meant it, she'd do something about it, but she'd rather complain about how tired she is. 

I also think that regular sex (however that's defined) can help with a relationship, both as a stress reliever and a way to bring yourselves together. My wife's way of dealing with stress is to eat a lot, complain about her weight, and nag me.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

:lol:


jillywilly143 said:


> Today is my husband's birthday, and he was also expecting birthday sex. I can give you a few reasons why he did not get it, and hopefully this will give you some insight. And then, maybe you can share it with him, cause he doesn't get it when I say it.
> 
> 1. When I am expected to have sex for a special occasion, such as a birthday, it feels like a chore. There is nothing arousing about your husband reminding you it is his birthday with a wink and a "you know that that means.."
> 
> ...



I feel for you. I am a wife of a very busy man that has two jobs and is gone almost 70 hours a wk. We also have 4 children. We have been married over 21 years. 

From one woman to another be VERY careful of your priorities and stress level. It sounds like you work, go to school, have a child, do the housework and are a wife. Which role is the most important to you? Be careful not to burn yourself out for your husband and child.

Even though my Dh is gone a lot, when he is home he likes to unwind by watching TV and playing video games. At first I thought he was doing those things to avoid responsibility at home and to avoid me. After numerous talks and some arguments I finally understood that he NEEDS down time to not think about anything. I get that now.

I have also learned that the more I have strived to meet his needs for touch and affection (sex) he watches less TV. 

Everyone should have birthday sex. Having sex with a loving spouse increases one's overall happiness and contentment in life.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

jillywilly143 said:


> Today is my husband's birthday, and he was also expecting birthday sex. I can give you a few reasons why he did not get it, and hopefully this will give you some insight. And then, maybe you can share it with him, cause he doesn't get it when I say it.
> 
> 1. When I am expected to have sex for a special occasion, such as a birthday, it feels like a chore. There is nothing arousing about your husband reminding you it is his birthday with a wink and a "you know that that means.."
> 
> ...


Different but related subject:

I grew up on the early video games. My generation is the first one to have video games. It is one of the reasons I chose computer programming as a profession. I love video games and today's games are amazing in comparison. I avoid them like the plague. They suck the life out of you and are a complete waste of time. It is a complaint I hear a lot from the women at work whose husbands spend their waking hours with a controller glued to their hands. Video game widows. My problem is the opposite ... it is my wife who plays video games ... of the fb variety. We never talk.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

The only difference between birthday sex and regular sex for us is that on your birthday you get a set number of spankings. It doesn't even have to be on our birthday, depending on how our schedules play out, but it will be within a few days.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

5. Recently, my husband has started smoking again. It has been a year and a half of none, and I am acclimated to the clean smell. I literally do not want to be touched, kissed, or anywhere near him when he smells. This is not limited to smoking. There are times when he has not showered, or he has worn the same clothes for a couple of days. Gross. 

I am SOOOOOO with you on this. My wife and I stopped smoking about 20 years ago...she started again about 3 years ago. Giving up was tough, very tough. All that effort is now wasted. Her choice.
Shhe now smokes 20+ a day. She smells of cigarettes the whole time. Her breath is simply disgusting. 
Even at 3am when she is asleep breathing in and out facing me the smell is strong enough to wake me up. 
It is simply DISGUSTING. Yuk.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

jd08 said:


> I sent her some articles to read about a man's sex drive and the reason that men need sex to feel connected and secure with their wife. She said it helped her understand better where I was coming from. We are also going to do some more reading together. I think seeing it from a different source is helping so far. After she read a little and we talked again, we had a nice time in the shower last night other than she might be a little sore from when I accidentally put her against the wall too hard at one point - oops.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My wife and I were in MC about 3 years ago....we went separately twice a month then together as a couple twice a month.

The counsellor started to talk to us about sex and its importance in a marriage. She gave my wife a 'report' written (I think) by a female Australian professor...basically explaining the importance of sex to men...its how we bond, its what makes us tick etc etc.
My wife skimmed through it and gave it back saying that it was a load of rubbish that had clearly been written by a man who wanted more sex.
My wife simply stopped going to counselling thereafter.
I still go a couple of times a month...because I want to better myself...for me and for my next partner.

I lost all interest in my wife at that time. It was the nail in the coffin...along with the smell. (see above)
But like so many men (and women), I stay for the sake of the children.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

askari said:


> My wife and I were in MC about 3 years ago....we went separately twice a month then together as a couple twice a month.
> 
> The counsellor started to talk to us about sex and its importance in a marriage. She gave my wife a 'report' written (I think) by a female Australian professor...basically explaining the importance of sex to men...its how we bond, its what makes us tick etc etc.
> My wife skimmed through it and gave it back saying that it was a load of rubbish that had clearly been written by a man who wanted more sex.
> ...


I am so sorry for you. 

Would she read something like "The 5 love languages" by Gary Chapman? It is more subtle than a report but still explains a man's need for touch. There is also a quiz the couple can take.

All things considered you sound like a very noble Dad to consider your children's needs.

Best of Luck


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Over20 - thank-you.
My wife is simply uniterested in sex...her attitude is 'Why should I do something I don't want to do?'....even 'because I am your husband and we are married' doesn't wash.

At the moment, my children (11 and 14yrs) mean more to me than anything else. Whone they are both old enough to understand divorces etc then I will start afresh.

Lots and lots of 'disillusioned' mothers and fathers stay in a sexless and basically unhappy marriage but tolerate it to be with their children.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

jd08 said:


> I told her tonight we are getting MC. She is so oblivious she says she isn't unhappy and doesn't know why I am. Guess we'll see how MC shakes out. She can work on making me happy or it's done.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hope you clearly and firmly tell her that the issue of your resentment is clearly on yourself and is your problem to fix, but your disappointment in her is clearly on her, and that is not negotiable or open to debate!!!!

So to speak...

"we do not agree about your role in the dysfunction of this relationship, we do not therefore even agree that counseling and change is needed". 

Emphasize that there is a disagreement, DO NOT accept what she says as just "another" interpretation.

Use "we are not in agreement or we do not agree" (About the health of the marriage) as often as possible.

(Humm... IDK, you might throw in that if you wanted a marriage like your neighbors then you would have married his sorry ass excuse of a wife to begin with.)

To continue...

"You say you are happy with what you are getting out of the marriage and are unwilling to invest more in it, that leaves me in a dilemma, accept the disappointing quality of our marriage as the best I can expect (what you hope DW I will do) or invest some of myself in something that will honestly and decently make life in an unfulfilling marriage worth enduring".


I know it is not the same as sex with a connected and enthusiastic partner, but I am referring to the standard stuff talked about here on TAM, getting a life, etc

WOM is right, you do not have to apologies for being discontent with the quality of your marriage.

Do not be told that your disappointment is uncalled for, or unreasonable.

No one can tell you when you are hungry.

She is wanting to hide from her responsibility (and effort it requires) and the shame of failure.

Bottom line is, its just not worth it to her, how can you make it worth it to her to feel differently?

"We do not agree (it is already a mental and emotional separation), I am disappointed in you as a wife!!"

If the two of you separated (and lopped of the romantic side) and you could still keep up everything else you are doing for her would she even care?

Assuming you are not a total skank like jillywilly143's husband, then this is as classic a case of cake eating as you could ever hope to see, and she has taken all of the sweetness out of YOUR life to make HER frosting so rich.

I do not understand a partner who will not make choices to please another partner or meet their needs, whatever they are, and I think it is cruel regardless of who does it. 

Cruel because it traps the other partner into an apparent "dilemma".

Cruel because it makes marriage a prison where busting out or serving your full sentence seems like the only options.

This I say, after raising 4 children and struggling to survive through my wife's MS all these years.
There were times when it was tough to be together, yes of course, but to depreciate or devalue one another's needs, that's just selfish, immature, and contrary to the very spirit of a marriage.

I'm sorry, take care!


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

over20 said:


> :lol:
> 
> 
> I feel for you. I am a wife of a very busy man that has two jobs and is gone almost 70 hours a wk. We also have 4 children. We have been married over 21 years.
> ...


This.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

breeze said:


> I read that book after DH turned from a very affectionate person into a cold stranger with me. I had all the excuses in the book for not having sex. I thought it was my body and why should I force myself into having sex when I didn't want it. He completely stopped trying and I'd complain that he wasn't affectionate and he'd tell me he couldn't be affectionate with no sex, that it was easier for him to have no contact than a little. At my wits end with trying to force myself to have a higher sex drive, which was just impossible, I came to forums and read books etc, but that book was what really opened my eyes. I realised that I expected him to meet my needs but wouldn't meet his. Add to that reading all these posts from unhappy men.
> 
> I just started to make the effort from that point. Even though I'd be tired etc and not actually in 'the mood', I'd initiate sex (because he wouldn't anymore). Luckily for me I've never actually had any problems having orgasms, even when tired or whatever.
> 
> Fast forward and I'm having to work on him initiating with me, but at least he's back to being very affectionate. He even got his xmas wish of a 69er, though I was a little reluctant I have to admit, lol.


GREAT FOR YOU that you recognized YOUR failings (instead of JUST his) and were willing to be humble enough to admit it and try to do better!

Wishing you and your husband many YEARS of continued happiness and a wonderful closeness (both in and out of bed).

You make your own happiness, and you have shown that to us! Thanks for the IRL reminder!


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Different but related subject:
> 
> I grew up on the early video games. My generation is the first one to have video games. It is one of the reasons I chose computer programming as a profession. I love video games and today's games are amazing in comparison. I avoid them like the plague. They suck the life out of you and are a complete waste of time. It is a complaint I hear a lot from the women at work whose husbands spend their waking hours with a controller glued to their hands. Video game widows. My problem is the opposite ... it is my wife who plays video games ... of the fb variety. We never talk.


We're fairly close in age, so I've seen the video game revolution begin with the Atari in the mid to late 80s followed by the Nintendo, Sega and then the computer games. I'm proud to say that I never got the "Nintendo Cube", "PS3" or the "X-box" consoles. I think video games have been cited in a number of threads as being the issue that hurts marriages. It's not worth it. And yes, I've been down that path to a certain extent with computer games and overuse of the internet. For several years I closed myself off from my wife. We still had good times together, but it could have been a good bit better. I can't get that time back, but I can definitely do my best to make up for it now. Our marriage is so much better when we only use the internet or play computer games at the proper times only. That means giving your spouse first dibs on your time.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Different but related subject:
> 
> I grew up on the early video games. My generation is the first one to have video games. It is one of the reasons I chose computer programming as a profession. I love video games and today's games are amazing in comparison. I avoid them like the plague. They suck the life out of you and are a complete waste of time. It is a complaint I hear a lot from the women at work whose husbands spend their waking hours with a controller glued to their hands. Video game widows. *My problem is the opposite ... it is my wife who plays video games ... of the fb variety. * We never talk.


The bolded part is my wife. She constantly complains about how tired she is, but will stay up to play her FB games. Sex? Nope, too much work and I'm soooo tired, but I have time to stay up to play on FB.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

ChargingCharlie said:


> The bolded part is my wife. She constantly complains about how tired she is, but will stay up to play her FB games. Sex? Nope, too much work and I'm soooo tired, but I have time to stay up to play on FB.





ChargingCharlie said:


> Yep, duty sex is the suck. We have sex on our anniversary, and she'll talk about how we should do it more often, but they're just words to me. If she meant it, she'd do something about it, but she'd rather complain about how tired she is.
> 
> I also think that regular sex (however that's defined) can help with a relationship, both as a stress reliever and a way to bring yourselves together. My wife's way of dealing with stress is to eat a lot, complain about her weight, and nag me.


If I didn't know better, I'd say you married my ex. Funny how the script is almost always the same in these situations.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

I Don't Know said:


> If I didn't know better, I'd say you married my ex. Funny how the script is almost always the same in these situations.


Yep, and that's sad. I'm starting to think that for a lot of us, our SO's feel that they put out enough in the past, and now feel like they've done their time. When your SO says that sex is a chore, then why would I want to initiate? If she's in the mood, she can let me know.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ChargingCharlie said:


> The bolded part is my wife. She constantly complains about how tired she is, but will stay up to play her FB games. Sex? Nope, too much work and I'm soooo tired, but I have time to stay up to play on FB.


If she is playing video games, at least she should have the self-respect to play good ones


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

There was a time in our marriage that all that was offered was duty sex, it did not take long for me to realize that DS is an succubus that sucks the soul right out of a man, it is cruel.

A partner can make a choice to please the other without making it feel like duty sex. (Oh yes they can!!)

Some may try to keep it at the duty sex level to keep your expectations low, its cruel.

Frequency can always be a challenge but attitude is a choice, one each partner is responsible and accountable for!!

Its still takes work to keep the relationship right and spend enough time together connecting, I don't do it just for me, she needs it too, she needs to be the kind of woman I can respect and connect with. 

That door swings both ways!


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Decorum said:


> There was a time in our marriage that all that was offered was duty sex, it did not take long for me to realize that DS is an succubus that sucks the soul right out of a man, it is cruel.
> 
> A partner can make a choice to please the other without making it feel like duty sex. (Oh yes they can!!)
> 
> ...


Agree with this. I'm starting to think my wife just wants me around to help with the kids and bring home a paycheck. As someone posted earlier, she has her kids, so she doesn't need sex anymore. I'm of the thought that this is the case with a lot of women.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Agree with this. *I'm starting to think my wife just wants me around to help with the kids and bring home a paycheck.* As someone posted earlier, she has her kids, so she doesn't need sex anymore. I'm of the thought that this is the case with a lot of women.


That's exactly what happened with my ex wife and I.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> That's exactly what happened with my ex wife and I.


Mine too. Of course it was all my fault that she was that way. And that's fine. I'll take that hit if it buys my freedom.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

I Don't Know said:


> Mine too. Of course it was all my fault that she was that way. And that's fine. I'll take that hit if it buys my freedom.


Funny that...it was all my fault too, just ask her...nevermind that she is NPD...


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

I Don't Know said:


> Mine too. Of course it was all my fault that she was that way. And that's fine. I'll take that hit if it buys my freedom.


Same here. Everything that happens is my fault. Kids cranky while she's at home and I'm at work? My fault as I was at work and could get a break from the kids while she had to deal with them whining and crying.

And I wonder why I don't look forward to going home except to see the kids...


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Decorum said:
> 
> 
> > There was a time in our marriage that all that was offered was duty sex, it did not take long for me to realize that DS is an succubus that sucks the soul right out of a man, it is cruel.
> ...


Yeah, I know that feeling. Now, I certainly accept my share of the blame but the one thing that has to change for us to be able to fix it is that she places our children far above our relationship on her priority list. I'm sure she doesn't see it this way but it sure does FEEL like I am just a dad and security. She doesn't seem to understand that what is in the best interest of our children and her security is placing our relationship first. I have told her over and over that two things are required to make our marriage viable ... communication and intimacy. We have neither and at the end of the day, it doesn't matter why. There are no excuses that make it acceptable. We fix it or we're done.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Yeah, I know that feeling. Now, I certainly accept my share of the blame but the one thing that has to change for us to be able to fix it is that she places our children far above our relationship on her priority list. I'm sure she doesn't see it this way but it sure does FEEL like I am just a dad and security. She doesn't seem to understand that what is in the best interest of our children and her security is placing our relationship first. I have told her over and over that two things are required to make our marriage viable ... communication and intimacy. We have neither and at the end of the day, it doesn't matter why. There are no excuses that make it acceptable. We fix it or we're done.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


This is spot on. You just about sum up my life. Like you, I accept my share of blame (for example, I'm not the most communicative person in the world, and keep a lot of things in, mostly as a defense mechanism). Also like you, however, she puts the kids way up in the relationship to the point that she stresses out about everything (just taking the kids somewhere will cause her to carp and ***** at me), and our relationship is to the point where we're just roommates that have a couple of kids. If I even mention sex (which I rarely do anymore), it's met with a groan or a dissertation on how tired she is, and asking why I just don't go take care of myself.


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## coupdegrace (Oct 15, 2012)

ChargingCharlie said:


> The bolded part is my wife. She constantly complains about how tired she is, but will stay up to play her FB games. Sex? Nope, too much work and I'm soooo tired, but I have time to stay up to play on FB.


My wife does the same thing. She's too tired for sex, but not Candy Crush Saga and her iPad movies.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

jillywilly143 said:


> Today is my husband's birthday, and he was also expecting birthday sex. I can give you a few reasons why he did not get it, and hopefully this will give you some insight. And then, maybe you can share it with him, cause he doesn't get it when I say it.
> 
> 1. When I am expected to have sex for a special occasion, such as a birthday, it feels like a chore. There is nothing arousing about your husband reminding you it is his birthday with a wink and a "you know that that means.."
> 
> ...


See this is what I'm talking about in regards to communication and it's why I place it above intimacy as a requirement of a viable marriage ...

These things are all fixable. If my wife came to me and said ... you know why I don't want to have sex with you? ... and then listed these reasons, my first thought would be "ok, how do I fix it?" ... and then I would put together a plan to fix it.

Instead, in my case, my wife would not tell me these things. She doesn't like confrontation. I'm not exactly sure why because I think I'm pretty good at listening and not offering excuses. I don't often get mad and when I do, I try my best not to raise my voice or say something I might regret ... oftentimes just telling her I need a second to clear my head and walk away until I can talk again with a level head. If anything, she is the one that immediately goes into defensive mode as if nothing is her fault or under her control. My hunch is that she avoids confrontation because she does not want to open herself up to being wrong or being criticized in return. 

So, if she had these reasons for not wanting to have sex with me, she might avoid hurting me or herself by opening herself up to talk about it. The result is that she would be causing a whole lot more pain ... she would resent me for these flaws and I would resent her for not having sex with me without understanding why. 

Fix the communication and then intimacy will follow. I can't fix what I don't know is broken.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Yeah, I know that feeling. Now, I certainly accept my share of the blame but the one thing that has to change for us to be able to fix it is that she places our children far above our relationship on her priority list. I'm sure she doesn't see it this way but it sure does FEEL like I am just a dad and security. She doesn't seem to understand that what is in the best interest of our children and her security is placing our relationship first. I have told her over and over that two things are required to make our marriage viable ... communication and intimacy. We have neither and at the end of the day, it doesn't matter why. There are no excuses that make it acceptable. We fix it or we're done.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


This is quite common. In many respects, it makes sense, at least early on. The kids can't take care of themselves, so having a parent really focusing on them is needed. The problem as I see it are two-fold:

1. I think many women don't realize how far they go and that at some point they need to refocus on the marriage. Kids become the priority, and the marriage takes a back seat behind everything else. Fast forward two years and that becomes the norm.

2. Men don't know how to address it. They understand on one level, even though they have clearly been deprioritized. They also generally understand that it is not permanent. But after a couple of year, with no end in sight, they start to get frustrated. But we don't communicate well what we are feeling or why it is important to both of us. Sometimes, resentment has already set in. Other times, we are made to feel guilty for "demanding" sex over caring for our precious children. We lack the tools or understanding to change things in a positive matter, so we lash out in a bad way.

I am not convinced that it is a malicious act by either side most of the time. Rather, it is a change in life that neither side handles well.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> This is quite common. In many respects, it makes sense, at least early on. The kids can't take care of themselves, so having a parent really focusing on them is needed. The problem as I see it are two-fold:
> 
> 1. I think many women don't realize how far they go and that at some point they need to refocus on the marriage. Kids become the priority, and the marriage takes a back seat behind everything else. Fast forward two years and that becomes the norm.
> 
> ...


I think you are right on.

In my case though, my daughters are 9 and 12. We are long past the point where they are so dependent on us (and particularly their mom) that they require our full attention and priority. If anything, as daughters, they are at the point where they demand more attention and priority from me than from their mom. I am their first male relationship and the attention they receive from me is vitally important. It won't be long before they move on and develop their own relationships. Of course, we can also delve into the model that my marriage creates for them but that goes into a whole other discussion ...

I don't think either of us were properly equipped with the communication tools necessary to ensure that our relationship received the proper focus. We had problems with this before children and having children just made it far worse. However, in this case, I think the roles are reversed and she struggles to communicate more than I do. When it comes down to it, I think much of it comes from her lack of self-esteem ... something she has struggled with her entire life. Her purpose is her children ... and it is also a safe place for her.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

coupdegrace said:


> My wife does the same thing. She's too tired for sex, but not Candy Crush Saga and her iPad movies.


It's avoidance.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

To reinforce earlier posts, birthday sex is nothing special. Having said that, I regularly get it on my bday. But we generally don't do anything above and beyond what we normally do.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

I don't think the problem is nessicarily birthday sex. It's lack of sexual interest all year long. The birthday or anniversary aspect is just adding salt to the wound. When intimacy is lacking the hurting party feels like if you can't even muster up some desire this one day, then you'll never desire me. It reinforces that you are just not wanted, not attractive, not good enough and all the other things that we feel when we are rejected but multiplied by 10. If we were getting regular sex and felt wanted, if our birthday rolled around and SO says I'm just not feeling it tonight it wouldn't be a big deal to most of us I think.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Here is a variation of no birthday sex. 

When I do some special thing for my wife and she tells me that I just got some "good husband points"  Trouble is I never seem to be able to redeem them for anything. lol


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

This is correct. It isn't the day itself but the fact of all days to be selfish it would be on your husbands birthday. 

Like I said earlier I'm seeing some small positive changes. We showered together on Wednesday, she asked me tonight if I wanted to have sex later. I'm not counting those chickens before they hatch though. There's still plenty of time for her to get "tired" or come down with a "headache." We'll see. 



I Don't Know said:


> I don't think the problem is nessicarily birthday sex. It's lack of sexual interest all year long. The birthday or anniversary aspect is just adding salt to the wound. When intimacy is lacking the hurting party feels like if you can't even muster up some desire this one day, then you'll never desire me. It reinforces that you are just not wanted, not attractive, not good enough and all the other things that we feel when we are rejected but multiplied by 10. If we were getting regular sex and felt wanted, if our birthday rolled around and SO says I'm just not feeling it tonight it wouldn't be a big deal to most of us I think.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> My wife is LD and I am High end HD. If I don't initiate, for whatever reason, she will once or twice a week.
> 
> *She does so from understanding that sex is a priority for me and therefore a priority for our marriage*. She also loves me and even if she isn't as high drive as me, she truly enjoys pleasing me...I was never as bad off as you but before it got there Mrs. Conan and I have had some very "real" conversations to remedy our situation before it got too bad.
> 
> She is good at calling me out when I am not meeting her needs as well and I have become better at listening to her concerns and making sure I do my part as well.


*THIS* is what YOU should be striving for, jd08! But you MUST require it for yourself instead of 'settling' for 1/2 a marriage. It is the most any of us can hope for: two MATURE adults equally invested in having a happy, successful, mutually-fulfilling relationship!

Congrats, Mr. & Mrs. Conan!


And you're right, jd08, you need to see SUSTAINED understanding and SUSTAINED effort and SUSTAINED improvement in communication AND sex before you can believe this is a real, substantive, permanent change and not just a 'check the box as completed so he can't bytch about it' scenario.



.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

usmarriedguy said:


> Here is a variation of no birthday sex.
> 
> When I do some special thing for my wife and she tells me that I just got some "good husband points"
> 
> ...


Lol ... something inherently wrong with the concept of husband points.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> usmarriedguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a variation of no birthday sex.
> ...


Maybe I should start assigning wife points. I'll start by subtracting points for every lb over her marital weight. At 330 lbs that starts her deep in the negative. Then I'll subtract points for every rejection over our 21 year marriage. Good lord, it would take a lifetime to get out of that hole.

Mean and pointless, I know ... so is the whole idea of a rating system.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I think it's most likely she would just be using that as a way of saying, 'I'm happy you did that/said that whatever', not that she's actually keeping a running tally in her head...


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

breeze said:


> I think it's most likely she would just be using that as a way of saying, 'I'm happy you did that/said that whatever', not that she's actually keeping a running tally in her head...


Well clearly ... I would be quite worried about anyone actually tallying points. My point is that it really isn't a healthy thing to say. It gives the impression that you are being judged ... as if a scorecard is being kept. A healthier thing would be to tell it like it is ... thank them for that specific thing or pay them a meaningful compliment.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

I think this whole 'birthday sex', 'good husband points' thing is terrible. Its as if we are sniffer dogs looking for drugs...'Good boy!! Well done!'...here's a biscuit.

10 good husband points = BJ. WTF?


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

askari said:


> 10 good husband points = BJ. WTF?


Hey if I could redeem them for a BJ I would be delighted. 

...but seriously, it is just her way of saying thanks. 

I thought it was kind of amusing though and along the same vein as birthday sex.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> *Sad. I used to wake up exH with a birthday BJ. It was a tradition.
> 
> I do not get NO birthday sex. Insane in the membrane.*


*I absolutely feel for you, Darlin'!

Why, I even attempted to wake my "pre-skanky" XW up that way once, and I did get kicked, along with such lecturing verbage as "don't ever surprise me like that whenever I'm sleeping," or "you know that I'm dirty down there!"

Well maybe her lardass BF fared a little bit better than I did! Or at least her FB posts to him seemed to greatly indicate!*


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

Had some good intimacy last night. That's 4 times since being rejected on my birthday and being rejected frequently before that. I think a switch has come on with her. I just hope it's a lasting change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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