# Persevere or not? Help ladies.



## AlexNY (Dec 10, 2009)

For too many years I have put off talking to my wife about equitably dividing household tasks, I finally jumped in the deep end last night and I think I screwed it up.

Getting her to let me do anything is like pulling teeth, but she is working herself to death so I have to act.

In front of guests on Christmas day was not the right place, but every other time I try to bring it up she avoids.

Now for the first time in 10 years we are not talking and I am scared. I married the most wonderful woman in the world, and I have hurt her.

Should I back down?

Help please.


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## artieb (Nov 11, 2009)

Bringing up your issues as a couple in front of company on Christmas Day has to be one of the biggest screwups in the list of "Don't do this" marriage tips I can imagine. As Jay Leno asked Hugh Grant, "What the hell were you thinking?" If you really have major couple issues you can't work out because she won't talk about them, you go see a marriage counsellor who you never met before and will never see outside your sessions, so you can handle your private stuff mostly privately. You don't blab it in front of friends and family who may gossip it to everyone you ever met.

Your only solution to this mess is (a) apologize, because you really were at fault, and (b) say that you were just so upset because it hurts you to feel as though you are taking advantage of her. Take her in your arms, and while you are hugging her look her in the face and say "I just feel bad when you're doing all the work and I could be helping. Besides, if I helped and we finished faster we might have more time for other things [wink]."

As for the household tasks, you don't need her to _let_ you do things. Just do them. As long as you can do them correctly, so she doesn't have to re-do them, I don't see a problem. (If you botch them up and create more work, then yes there's a problem.) Do you know where the flatware goes? Do you know where the dishwasher is? Then when it finishes, put the stuff away. Some people get particular about how the dishwasher should be _loaded_, so maybe you leave that to her, but if you know where the dishes go then you can _empty_ it without trouble. Similarly, you can clear the table and stack the plates on the counter for loading, and you can set the table (if you don't know how to set a table, Google it), and if she fusses about the towels you can at least dig through the laundry pile for your own stuff put your own socks away and hang up your own shirts on hangers and such.

Another thing you might do is buy her a Roomba. Then it'll do the vacuuming by itself, and you can help out by reading the instructions and emptying it when it finishes. And if you have a cat who likes to ride it, you can put up a video on YouTube.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

artieb said:


> Bringing up your issues as a couple in front of company on Christmas Day has to be one of the biggest screwups in the list of "Don't do this" marriage tips I can imagine. As Jay Leno asked Hugh Grant, "What the hell were you thinking?" If you really have major couple issues you can't work out because she won't talk about them, you go see a marriage counsellor who you never met before and will never see outside your sessions, so you can handle your private stuff mostly privately. You don't blab it in front of friends and family who may gossip it to everyone you ever met.
> 
> Your only solution to this mess is (a) apologize, because you really were at fault, and (b) say that you were just so upset because it hurts you to feel as though you are taking advantage of her. Take her in your arms, and while you are hugging her look her in the face and say "I just feel bad when you're doing all the work and I could be helping. Besides, if I helped and we finished faster we might have more time for other things [wink]."
> 
> ...


This advice is good. Simply do the tasks that you know you can do well, and leave the ones your wife is proud to do. 

Also don't undersestimate her pride in her work, and understand she is not necessarily looking for everything equal in all tasks. Sometimes complete ownership in certain areas is most desirable. 

Do not underestimate how forgiving your woman may react once the dust settles and you are explaining your intentions, much like you have done on this post.

The dominant man takes ownership of even his faults and mistakes, and will correct them. For this man a woman will be honored to forgive and move on at that point, but sometimes it will take time, and her seeing the actions are matching the words.


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## DeniseK (Jun 25, 2009)

[email protected]#@$......I dont' like to use bad language...but wow. If I caught my ex husband folding towels or doing housework.....well....there wouldn't have been a fight..... How can anyone be mad about having a husband want to help. Maybe I am jsut a crazy woman.....and need serious psychological help...but I do not see a problem here.....Hope she gets over being angry soon. This is as stupid a thing as I can think of to get angry about.....

I am not making light of it.....trust me. Issues are issues...no matter what they are. I just am scratching my head.....searching for an answer and coming up blank.

Maybe you can tell her how much it hurts you to see her working so hard ......try to make her feel validated in her concerns. tell her you know you can't do as great a job as she does but you love and want to take some of the burdon off her and would love to work side by side with her in everything...that is how much you love her.

Good luck.


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## AlexNY (Dec 10, 2009)

artieb said:


> Bringing up your issues as a couple in front of company on Christmas Day has to be one of the biggest screwups ...


I know it was stupid and I apologized. Every other time I bring it up she changes the subject.

It happened this way: after supper I got up to do dishes, and my wife said "I hate it when you get up before people are finished." For whatever reason, I found it in me to answer "And why do you think I have to do that? Because I know that if I don't, you will find a way to start doing _my _task." It went on from there.


> As for the household tasks, you don't need her to _let_ you do things. Just do them.


This does not work. I tried for 10 years. She finds something wrong with what I did, and then she is even more frustrated and tired after having to re-do it herself.

My plan is for her to relinquish responsibility for entire tasks to me, warts and all. For example, I want the laundry. Sometimes, I may leave the wash too long after spin before dry (leading to mildewy smell), or too long after dry before fold (leading to poor appearance). I will do my best, and when I fail I try better next time.

It is very tempting to simply apologize and go back to the easy way. She takes care of our family sooo well. However, I am not blind, she is running on empty, it is slowly killing her. For a long time I have known that I felt angry, but did not know why. Now, I know that I am angry because I hate seeing someone I love wasting away. I simply cannot back down, it might be 10 more years before I have a chance to act again, this is a fight I have to win.

I also hope that more balance in chores might lead to more "us time". Maybe not.


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## AlexNY (Dec 10, 2009)

DeniseK said:


> ... How can anyone be mad about having a husband want to help.


I dont want to help. Help means the task gets done her way, and I try to be an extra pair of hands and arms. She wants help and asks for it, but I have tried, I cannot help at her level of standards for how it gets done.

I need her to unload entire responsibility for a type of chore to me, and _let me do it my way. _


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## AlexNY (Dec 10, 2009)

BigBadWolf said:


> Sometimes complete ownership in certain areas is most desirable.


That is exactly what I want, ownership. I have wrestled about 30% from her, but that still leaves me doing less than half of what she does, and we both work full time. Now I need her to relinquish some of the things that are more important to her, like clothes. Visible things maybe? Not sure.



> The dominant man takes ownership of even his faults and mistakes, and will correct them. For this man a woman will be honored to forgive and move on at that point, but sometimes it will take time, and her seeing the actions are matching the words.


My wife has always been dominant in our marriage, except for career related things. Following your advice, I have started changing that on a limited basis, but last night was the first clash that I knew she would resist fiercely. And she did. Afterwards, I told her I was sorry that I was clumsy in my approach, but not sorry for what I was doing. I told her that I would not drop it and we could talk again when she was ready.

She does not know that I am afraid, but I am. Disaster could happen if I loose her now by trying to solve problems that could wait a very long time.

Does anyone know why some women are so particular about how things get done? She knows that it is affecting her health, three months ago she started having severe back pain and muscle tension related migraines. The doctor told her it was stress and ordered rest and deep muscle massage. She went one time to deep massage, quit, and never took even one minute of rest. Why go to doctor if you don't do what he orders? I suppose it is hearing the doctor report that made up my mind to do something.

Thanks for advice.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

AlexNY said:


> That is exactly what I want, ownership. I have wrestled about 30% from her, but that still leaves me doing less than half of what she does, and we both work full time. Now I need her to relinquish some of the things that are more important to her, like clothes. Visible things maybe? Not sure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am seeing from your recent posts you are taking ownership, like you say, to do things your way instead of helping. This sounds correct and I know you will continue to work this out to a good conclusion. 

Being afraid is natural, for the man who has the sense of ownership of the relationship like you have. 

And to answer your question as to why some women are so particular? Yes, actually, I know why this is so.

I am hoping to be able to explain this plainly, because it is often complex.

The woman is wanting very hard to please those she depends on, even to the point of not wanting help or assistance, out of her insecurity. 

She is trying to overcome insecurity by being the perfectionist.

Know that when this happens, there is always something "wrong" with those efforts to help her. Nothing will be "good enough", etc. Much like you are saying. 

This is not actually saying there is incompleteness in the task, it is only the screen to isolate her from "looking bad" in the eyes of those she is trying to please.

The solution is this: To make her know she has worth that is not based on the tasks she is doing, but on the desire of her man for her.

Not to be beating the drum and the broken record, but again the cure for the woman's insecurity is to make her feel sexually attractive. 

Know this, that sexual attraction and insecurity cannot co-exist in a woman, it is either one or the other, but know also it is always one or the other.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Try making it ****y and funny.

"Well you can take over doing the dishes, but I'm going to rub myself on your ass the whole time you're doing them. I'll probably reach around as well." If she starts on the dishes, go "oh yeah baby, DO MY DISHES, DO MY DISHES!" and start grinding on her.

Also you can try physically blocking her from getting to the task. Turn all the contact into playful fighting and attempt to turn it into flirting teasing fun. "If you want to do that baby, you've got to come through me, and I'm horny as a jack rabbit baby".

Oh oh oh..... "I don't usually let the kitchen staff talk back to me... perhaps a spanking would be in order."

Keep it light, playful, fun, funny and flirting. Don't just be a jerk. BIG "I'm gonna be a naughty boy" grin the whole time. Think to yourself, what would Austin Powers do?

Either she gives up and lets you finish, or you end up... yeah


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## artieb (Nov 11, 2009)

AlexNY said:


> Sometimes, I may leave the wash too long after spin before dry (leading to mildewy smell), or too long after dry before fold (leading to poor appearance). I will do my best, and when I fail I try better next time.


You might like _Home Comforts: The Art and Science of Keeping House_. Pick something out of the book, memorize how to do it, and get it perfectly exactly right. Ideally, pick something your wife doesn't do very often because she hates it. Another choice might be _Speed Cleaning_ by Jeff Campbell, which covers how to get the house clean in a hurry.

With a little work, you can make a chart of the "how long until it needs attention" chart for all the machines, and set a timer. We rented a house for a while that had a dishwasher which didn't always open the "second wash" compartment for some reason. So I got in the habit of setting a timer for 19 minutes, which is when the door was supposed to open when the dishes were set on "normal wash". (You can tell if you listen to when the water is running and when it cuts off.)


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Alex,
Why are you afraid of having conflict with your wife? Why are you walking around on eggshells with her? 

When are you going to address your real issue which is that she uses housework to avoid intimacy/sex with you? 

You have to learn to avoid saying things like "I don't want to lose you over this - or I would never leave you no matter what" Those are submissive statements and will cause her to assume that you are willing to quickly back down on any topic. 

Be assertive - work on your script ahead of time and practice it. 

You can banter - OMG darling do you think if I do the dishes differently then you - civilization as we know it might end? 






AlexNY said:


> That is exactly what I want, ownership. I have wrestled about 30% from her, but that still leaves me doing less than half of what she does, and we both work full time. Now I need her to relinquish some of the things that are more important to her, like clothes. Visible things maybe? Not sure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

I have a different view on this. Which is, she's stressed and tense enough to pick a fight outa everything. She's also demanding high competence from you at certain things...and when you do something wrong (in her view) it makes things worse. 

Doesn't even count that you did it, if you did it bad. Also, sorry doesn't do anything. Ever hear her say 'i don't need to hear your sorry i just need you to do it right', or something to that extent? 

I wouldn't start being joking and flirty around her out of the blue specially when doing something she finds important. 

Guess it highly depends on the woman but what Atholk described earlier is extremely amazingly annoying for me if i were to be focusing on fixing something (i'd have the - ok so i'm trying to finish this faster cause i'm tired and you're acting like a little spoiled child AND getting in my way at the same time- attitude). 

What i would however try...just my opinion, and you can't really mess up with this, is waiting for her after she's done with housework and doing something she likes (after asking, obviously) like a foot massage, back massage, anything that makes her feel better and less stressed....with 3 conditions: if she sais no, don't insist too much.... make sure she doesn't think it's because you want sex....make sure you don't come across as doing that because you're desperately want to please her. 

If this works, you get her more relaxed, she'll link an activity that she finds pleasant to you, will get more used to your touch and let you get closer more often. 

Mem on the other hand is spot on with his attitude.


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