# A question about GNO's



## Mysterio

Hi everyone , Im new to TAM & have been reading tru the various discussions , especially about GNO'S.
My situation is probably a bit of paranoia but hey ,I have to ask for advice.

My issue isnt about cheating , (ie infidelity, I trust my wife on that matter) but more of a ' is she not telling me everything that went on ' regarding the GNO . 
So my issue is probably more of a bit of deception on her part.

Ok , my wife meets old work mates on a few occasions every year 
(probably only 5 or 6 times) . they are all women of same age (late 30's , early 40's) 1 divorced , 1 married and 2 in long term relationships. When they meet up they go out for drinks and then various clubs, for ' dancing' .
I used to have a bit of a history of ' grilling her' the next day on what she got up to . I used to ask alot of questions when i was younger but I have eased off since we got married ( 5yrs married, 15yrs together in total).

When they go out she comes home usually between 3am-5am
they go for a bit to eat after the club ( which i know is true because they have been doin so for yrs)

My question is should I know everything that happens on these nights out ( the ones worth mentioning that is ).
ie: was she 'hit on? '
did she flirt'? ..
what her perception of a GNO is ?
If she WAS hit on before she has told me that she has made it clear she is married ! ( Thats how I know she has been faithful)

I cant help getting the feeling that certain things are been kept from my me 
Thanks for any replies ( male or female )
'


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## SomedayDig

Ugggg...


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## Mysterio

SomedayDig said:


> Ugggg...


I dont understand ?


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## PHTlump

Mysterio said:


> My issue isnt about cheating , (ie infidelity, I trust my wife on that matter) but more of a ' is she not telling me everything that went on ' regarding the GNO .
> So my issue is probably more of a bit of deception on her part.


Your issue actually IS cheating. That's the main reason for deception on her part. What else would she need to hide from you? The kind of music the DJ was playing?



> My question is should I know everything that happens on these nights out ( the ones worth mentioning that is ).
> ie: was she 'hit on? '
> did she flirt'? ..
> what her perception of a GNO is ?
> If she WAS hit on before she has told me that she has made it clear she is married ! ( Thats how I know she has been faithful)


I can answer your questions for you. Yes, she was hit on. Her perception of a GNO is getting together with her friends, dressing sexy, drinking to lower her inhibitions, and then shaking her ass in front of men who are looking for casual sex. Sounds like fun. And what could possibly go wrong?

So, there are three possibilities for a GNO.
1. She stays faithful to you.
2. She cheats on you, but lies and tells you that she was faithful.
3. She cheats on you and immediately confesses to you.

I'll say that #3 is so rare that it's really not even worth contemplating. Disloyal spouses don't come clean until they're caught. Period.

So, she has told you that she has been faithful to you. She's either telling the truth, or she's lying. And you think she's lying about something.

In general, if a man tells me that his wife was out until 5am drinking and shaking her ass for other men, I would tell him that he has a problem. At a minimum, it's just not very respectful to you. I mean, would your wife mind if you spent the night at a speed dating event, where 20 different women come around and spend a few minutes flirting with you? What if you told your wife that you definitely would not sleep with any of those women? Would she mind then? I bet she would.

I would suggest that your wife spend GNOs in a more respectful fashion. Like dinner with friends, or kicking you out so they can sit around at your house.

Good luck.


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## SomedayDig

I know you're new and everything, but you said you read the threads about GNO's.

You have the same questions that have been pondered in every single thread.

Of course she was hit on. Of course she flirted back. Her perception is she can have fun without you.


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## Westwind

I remember sitting behind two women on public transit and I tried to follow what they were saying. It must have been some kind of stream of consciousness thing because I could not make any logical conclusion about what they were saying and gave up listening to them. You get women together and they just like to talk like that. If a man were to intrude with the idea of trying to pick up one of them, well he would probably eventually be driven away trying to fit into the conversation. A guy is better off approaching a woman who is by herself, so do not worry about what goes on in a girls night out.


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## Mysterio

ok , so even if its only 5 or 6 times a yr ( I supose thats beside the point).. Should I sit her down and say im not happy with the 'dancing'?
I dont think its ok for a married person to flirt , but what if its only for a laugh , I know thats a bit of a slippery slope, but am i over-reacting a tad ?

I did see a photo recently of her , her friend and a random bloke at a club , it was nothing sexual or anything but it made me wonder 
'Is this what they do'??
( she was sitting beside me when her friend showed me the photo, but i dont think I was ment to see 'that' one !


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## Kobo

Westwind said:


> I remember sitting behind two women on public transit and I tried to follow what they were saying. It must have been some kind of stream of consciousness thing because I could not make any logical conclusion about what they were saying and gave up listening to them. You get women together and they just like to talk like that. If a man were to intrude with the idea of trying to pick up one of them, well he would probably eventually be driven away trying to fit into the conversation. A guy is better off approaching a woman who is by herself, so do not worry about what goes on in a girls night out.


Yes. All men should take this route. What's the worst that could happen?


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## RFguy

Unlike any other social setting where men and women will be in the same premises, what's unique with dance clubs is that your average man doesn't like to dance and doesn't go there.

The men you will find in dance clubs fall basically into two categories:
1) Men that were dragged there by their wife/gf
2) "Players" and PUAs

The first category is harmless, but the second is determined to get some action. This is why it's a dangerous setting for women in relationships. Plus the alcohol.


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## SomedayDig

Mysterio said:


> ok , so even if its only 5 or 6 times a yr ( I supose thats beside the point).. Should I sit her down and say im not happy with the 'dancing'?
> I dont think its ok for a married person to flirt , but what if its only for a laugh , I know thats a bit of a slippery slope, but am i over-reacting a tad ?
> 
> I did see a photo recently of her , her friend and a random bloke at a club , it was nothing sexual or anything but it made me wonder
> 'Is this what they do'??
> ( she was sitting beside me when her friend showed me the photo, but i dont think I was ment to see 'that' one !


Frequency doesn't really matter. If you haven't discussed that you're not happy about the dancing or flirting, then you haven't really communicated. I know the GNO proponents here say they're okay to go to, but not in what you're describing.

Here's the deal. Here's the real slippery slope - 1st time it's "I won't talk to another guy...we're girls hanging out". 2nd time it's "Okay, but I won't let a guy buy me a drink". 3rd time it's "Okay...well...I won't _dance_ with a guy". Every time the line gets redrawn and put further and further away.

And GNO proponents...I'm NOT talking about you. We're talking about this dude's wife.


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## Kobo

Mysterio said:


> ok , so even if its only 5 or 6 times a yr ( I supose thats beside the point).. Should I sit her down and say im not happy with the 'dancing'?
> I dont think its ok for a married person to flirt , but what if its only for a laugh , I know thats a bit of a slippery slope, but am i over-reacting a tad ?
> 
> I did see a photo recently of her , her friend and a random bloke at a club , it was nothing sexual or anything but it made me wonder
> 'Is this what they do'??
> ( she was sitting beside me when her friend showed me the photo, but i dont think I was ment to see 'that' one !


There's always more to the original post. Listen. You've had a problem with these GNOs from the beginning which is why you grilled her to death on the days after until she eventually wore you down. Now this picture has triggered your gut that hey maybe a married person in their thirties shouldn't be out clubbing until 5 am. Too bad you don't have a time machine to go back to that first GNO and detail that this isn't part of the marriage you envisioned. You can try to reign it in now but you're in for a battle. Her buddies aren't going to give her up without a fight. Even if it means that guy that asked about her just happen to be at the same coffee shop they're meeting at to talk about how controlling you've become.


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## IsGirl3

has she given you reason to suspect that she might cheat on you? how is your relationship? Can you tell if she really loves you?

GNO sounds like fun. I'm not sure I see anything wrong with 5 women getting together and dancing and drinking at a club. It's a fun bonding time. When I go out, with my H or girlfriends, I dress nicer. 

If she likes dressing sexy, do you give her the opportunity to do this? Do you go to clubs with her? 

My H has boys night out 5-6X/year. He doesn't spill the beans on what's up with each guy, but they just sit around a bar, drink beer, and watch whatever sports game is on TV.

If there isn't a guy out there that is threatening your marriage, I think you should relax about her letting loose and having fun with her friends.


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## MrK

Just have a friend who doesn't know her show up and get some cell phone video. PI would be better if you can afford it.

Some GNO's can be OK. It's rare, but possible. The lack of disclosure from your wife leads me to believe it gets pretty bad.

"I'm married". Classic. Why do you think men go to meat markets? To meet _married_ women.


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## SomedayDig

Honestly, after Dday I grilled my wife about the GNO's. At first she was like - "they weren't any big deal". Til I kept on asking, then she finally realized how f'ng stupid ALL of the girls were that went. I made her also realize when we went on a date 6 months later how silly it all looked. I pointed out a couple cougarish chicks at the bar - WITH their rings on, and how all the young guys were flocking to them buying them drinks...

and just how f'ng pathetic those chicks looked...

and how the young girls on their GNO's _without_ wedding rings on were laughing at them.


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## Mysterio

these are night clubs (ie dance clubs) where everybody goes at the weekend especially for drink , chat , dancing , hooking up etc...
For both Married and single people & couples .


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## SomedayDig

Mysterio said:


> these are night clubs (ie dance clubs) where everybody goes at the weekend especially for drink , chat , dancing , hooking up etc...
> For both Married and single people & couples .


Perfect!


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## MrK

SomedayDig said:


> And GNO proponents...I'm NOT talking about you. We're talking about this dude's wife.


Exactly. 

The lack of disclosure (I'm guessing even RESISTANCE to disclosure) are a HUGE red flag.


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## Mysterio

SomedayDig said:


> Perfect!


perfect for what .. innocent or something to worry about.

I have no reason to think that she is hooking up at all
( maybe im nieve)

maybe she is getting hit on ( she cant help that ?)
but flirting back ( if she is ) is a no no...

:'The lack of disclosure (I'm guessing even RESISTANCE to disclosure) are a HUGE red flag.'

should I bring up the whole gno thing again ( she prob hit the roof and say im back to my old ways of thinking )
or should i calm down and say nothing :scratchhead


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## SadSamIAm

I think it all boils down to trust and moderation.

I don't mind my wife going out with her girl friends once in a while. I go golfing with buddies for a week or two each year. She goes to the mountains with her friends for a week or two each year. She also goes out with girlfriends here once every couple of months. As I do with the guys.

After golf we might go to a bar for a bit. We talk and laugh and have a good time. I remember a couple of times where some of the guys started a conversation with some women at another table. Nothing bad ever happened. Just people socializing. Most nights we stay in and play cards just among ourselves. 

My wife has told me about their trips and the same things happen. 

I wouldn't like her going out without me all the time. I wouldn't like her staying out until 5am ever. 

I have no problem for us each having a social life outside our marriage. I think it is healthy in moderation.


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## MrK

Mysterio said:


> but flirting back ( if she is ) is a no no...
> 
> should I bring up the whole gno thing again ( she prob hit the roof and say im back to my old ways of thinking )
> or should i calm down and say nothing :scratchhead


You say nothing. 

Then you spy. I can GUARANTEE she is doing stuff you don't like (if FLIRTING is a no-no). Go ahead and read the rest of the 30 pages this topic will generate. NONE OF IT means jack to you and your wife. 

Just see for yourself how she acts when she's out. This discussion is purely academic. You need to see for yourself.


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## PHTlump

Westwind said:


> A guy is better off approaching a woman who is by herself, so do not worry about what goes on in a girls night out.


Seriously? A group of girls is called a "set". There is a boat load of information on PUA websites on how to open sets. Sets of 2, sets of 3, mixed sets (meaning men and women), larger sets, you name it. Men are not dissuaded AT ALL by women in a group.


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## Mysterio

MrK said:


> You say nothing.
> 
> Then you spy. I can GUARANTEE she is doing stuff you don't like (if FLIRTING is a no-no). Go ahead and read the rest of the 30 pages this topic will generate. NONE OF IT means jack to you and your wife.
> 
> Just see for yourself how she acts when she's out. This discussion is purely academic. You need to see for yourself.


Thats sounds so true buddy ( all problems are ones individual problems )

I have looked tru her cell phone messages +facebook +pictures etc and found nothing . 

I did notice one thing a few months ago though !
she got home at 5am and i checked her phone next morning and she had a missed call from the only 'single girl' that was with them ..this missed call was at about 3:45am .. 
so check this :
She said the reason they got in at 5am was because they went for some food and was awhile waiting for a cab ( this can happed) , but 3:45 -5am , a missed call in between ?then eating +waiting on cab all in the space of 1h 15min..somebody obviously wasent with the 'gang ' at the time of the missed call otherwise , WHY make such a call ?
And how do i spy on her when im at home with the kids ?


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## Mysterio

:iagree:


PHTlump said:


> Seriously? A group of girls is called a "set". There is a boat load of information on PUA websites on how to open sets. Sets of 2, sets of 3, mixed sets (meaning men and women), larger sets, you name it. Men are not dissuaded AT ALL by women in a group.


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## MrK

PHTlump said:


> Seriously? A group of girls is called a "set". There is a boat load of information on PUA websites on how to open sets. Sets of 2, sets of 3, mixed sets (meaning men and women), larger sets, you name it. Men are not dissuaded AT ALL by women in a group.


See what I mean? You're gonna' get 30 pages of this. And NONE of it helps you.


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## tulsy

Mysterio said:


> Thats sounds so true buddy ( all problems are ones individual problems )
> 
> I have looked tru her cell phone messages +facebook +pictures etc and found nothing .
> 
> I did notice one thing a few months ago though !
> she got home at 5am and i checked her phone next morning and she had a missed call from the only 'single girl' that was with them ..this missed call was at about 3:45am ..
> so check this :
> She said the reason they got in at 5am was because they went for some food and was awhile waiting for a cab ( this can happed) , but 3:45 -5am , a missed call in between ?then eating +waiting on cab all in the space of 1h 15min..somebody obviously wasent with the 'gang ' at the time of the missed call otherwise , WHY make such a call ?
> And how do i spy on her when im at home with the kids ?


Could have been a drunkin mis-call when trying to call the cab....

...or a "butt-dial" where the phone dialed in her pocket...

just sayin', that's not all that strange.


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## tulsy

MrK said:


> See what I mean? You're gonna' get 30 pages of this. And NONE of it helps you.


It's kinda true. You won't REALLY know unless you investigate. Everything else here is reassurance or speculation.


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## MrK

Mysterio said:


> And how do i spy on her when im at home with the kids ?


I'm gonna' get hammerred for this, but hire a PI. I wish to god I did when my wife went through her stage of trolling for strange at meat markets. Instead, I rug swept. Heard things YEARS later, but she "didn't remember" by then. Nip this in the bud now.


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## PHTlump

Mysterio said:


> ok , so even if its only 5 or 6 times a yr ( I supose thats beside the point).. Should I sit her down and say im not happy with the 'dancing'?


If you're not happy, then tell her you're not happy.



> I dont think its ok for a married person to flirt , but what if its only for a laugh , I know thats a bit of a slippery slope, but am i over-reacting a tad ?


Don't play the game of intentions. Intentions are impossible to measure. Most of the threads on the Coping With Infidelity board feature disloyal spouses who were acting horribly, but throwing their spouse on the defensive by saying, "Don't you trust me?"

Here's what you need to know. Most men and most women who are married will cheat. As in over 50% of each sex. And most of those cheaters are not psychopaths who crave to sadistically harm their spouses. Most of them are just people who believed they would never, ever cheat. And they put themselves in a bad situation, like being drunk in a place where people hook up, and things just got out of control.

The best way to defend against that happening is to make sure that you and your wife don't put yourselves in those kinds of environments.



> I did see a photo recently of her , her friend and a random bloke at a club , it was nothing sexual or anything but it made me wonder
> 'Is this what they do'??
> ( she was sitting beside me when her friend showed me the photo, but i dont think I was ment to see 'that' one !


Right. Men are involved. Maybe the man was with one of her single friends. But what about when there are 5 men with the 5 women? Obviously the single girls will want to entertain them. That means your wife will be "paired up" with a man.

You need to go to Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits. to learn about having some boundaries. Also, check out the book No More Mister Nice Guy.

Good luck.


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## Mysterio

ok what way do i approach her , when i was younger i went at her like
it was an interrogation ( which obviuosly didnt give me piece of mind )
bacause im still asking questions ! 
I think we need to sit down and chat ,


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## PHTlump

I suggest that you don't confront your wife with your suspicions, but you voice your discomfort with her behavior. Make something up. Tell her that Joe, at work, is getting a divorce because his wife was running around like a skank at meat-markets and cheating on him. Therefore, you really don't think it's appropriate for married people to hang out flirting and being flirted with, so you would appreciate it if her next GNO was at a restaurant, or at your house.

This lets her know you're not happy, but if she's up to something, she won't necessarily hide it. Then, you verify that she's stopped hitting the bars.

You can put spyware on her phone that can GPS track her and eavesdrop on her calls and texts. You can put a voice-activated recorder under the seat of her car, so that when she's calling her girlfriend to recount their exploits, you can overhear. Or, you can have someone follow her when she's out. Either a PI, or a friend she doesn't know.

Good luck.


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## RFguy

Mysterio said:


> I dont think its ok for a married person to flirt , but what if its only for a laugh , I know thats a bit of a slippery slope, but am i over-reacting a tad ?


You know what they say: "It's all fun and games until someone's c*ck "accidentally" finds its way into your wife's vag"


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## Mysterio

Is it not better to sit down and openly discuss the problem , or will it just be pushed under
ground more ?


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## A Bit Much

OP, you've been to a club right? What were you there for? What did you see?

GNO's in general aren't bad things. I like hanging with my girlfriends and going out for drinks with them. We talk about all kinds of stuff and it's fun. What I DON'T do is clubbing. Men go for one reason. If I go into a situation like that with my girlfriends, we're going to get attention. Lot's of it. I don't want that kind of attention from other men so I don't go. I like dancing but I don't go dancing without my man. 

You have these questions but you already know the answers to them. She knows you know the answers too, which is why she doesn't say much about her night. She hasn't left anything out, she just doesn't see the need to spell it out to someone who knows better.


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## tulsy

Mysterio said:


> Is it not better to sit down and openly discuss the problem , or will it just be pushed under
> ground more ?


How many time have you talked about it already?

How many times was it swept under the rug already?

Communication is always a great place to start, but in the past it hasn't helped you. Just curious about how may times you brought it up, out of the 5-6 times a year and after how many years of this?


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## Mysterio

A Bit Much said:


> OP, you've been to a club right? What were you there for? What did you see?
> 
> GNO's in general aren't bad things. I like hanging with my girlfriends and going out for drinks with them. We talk about all kinds of stuff and it's fun. What I DON'T do is clubbing. Men go for one reason. If I go into a situation like that with my girlfriends, we're going to get attention. Lot's of it. I don't want that kind of attention from other men so I don't go. I like dancing but I don't go dancing without my man.
> 
> You have these questions but you already know the answers to them. She knows you know the answers too, which is why she doesn't say much about her night. She hasn't left anything out, she just doesn't see the need to spell it out to someone who knows better.


so in your opinion is she goin for the whole 9 yrds , drinks , girl talk , dancing and flirting & getting hit on ?


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## Mysterio

tulsy said:


> How many time have you talked about it already?
> 
> How many times was it swept under the rug already?
> 
> Communication is always a great place to start, but in the past it hasn't helped you. Just curious about how may times you brought it up, out of the 5-6 times a year and after how many years of this?


probably a few yrs before we were married and the 5yrs we are married... but these are the same crowd of women she goes with 
its not like she is mixing in different circles


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## MrK

Mysterio said:


> I think we need to sit down and chat ,


try that and let us know how it goes. I mean, let everyone ELSE know how it goes. I tried it and already. I know.


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## A Bit Much

Don't beat the dead horse. Just remind her that you don't like the clubbing. It's not something you will ever be OK with no matter how she tries to soothe your mind over it.

If she goes anyway, she doesn't care that it bothers you and you'll have to a) get over it and let it go or b) provide some consequences. She needs to be made aware that you will not live this way. If she wants to stay married to you, she should respect you.


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## A Bit Much

Mysterio said:


> so in your opinion is she goin for the whole 9 yrds , drinks , girl talk , dancing and flirting & getting hit on ?


Of course. What were you doing at the club when you were there?

To think that you're going with the girls just to have fun and dance is naive. You're going to get hit on. That's part of it too. Some guy will come at you asking to dance, or buy you drinks. Yes you can say no, but it's happening. You're there for that (and the men think so too).


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## MrK

Mysterio said:


> so in your opinion is she goin for the whole 9 yrds , drinks , girl talk , dancing and flirting & getting hit on ?


I have NO DOUBT about it. And if I'm right, what is your little chat going to accomplish?


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## Mysterio

ill decide what to do over this weekend , and let u all know what went down.
thanks to everybody for the advice.
please feel free to comment more ( the more opinions the better0
laters peeps !!


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## A Bit Much

If your wife likes to go dancing she should be going with you not her girlfriends. Take her dancing man.


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## sinnister

Westwind said:


> I remember sitting behind two women on public transit and I tried to follow what they were saying. It must have been some kind of stream of consciousness thing because I could not make any logical conclusion about what they were saying and gave up listening to them. You get women together and they just like to talk like that. If a man were to intrude with the idea of trying to pick up one of them, well he would probably eventually be driven away trying to fit into the conversation. A guy is better off approaching a woman who is by herself, so do not worry about what goes on in a girls night out.


Is this a joke?


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## Mysterio

A Bit Much said:


> If your wife likes to go dancing she should be going with you not her girlfriends. Take her dancing man.


i did ask her , last week .
she said 'sure what would we talk about , the kids'?
ans that its different when she with the friends ( of course, we all need friend time)
sounds fishy though ..


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## A Bit Much

Mysterio said:


> i did ask her , last week .
> she said 'sure what would we talk about , the kids'?
> ans that its different when she with the friends ( of course, we all need friend time)
> sounds fishy though ..


You aren't talking on the dance floor. Yep. It's sounding fishy to me too.


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## sinnister

I think the reason why some women have no problem with going to a bar and drinking and dancing for the girls night out and coming home at 3am is because they truly do not understand men.

It doesn't matter what the wifes motivation is. It just doesn't. What matters is what happens in an environment where you have a lot of men who are completely hell bent on getting laid, and a group of women with lowered inhibitions due to alcohol consumption. Bad things happen when you put yourself in position for it.


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## PHTlump

Mysterio said:


> Is it not better to sit down and openly discuss the problem , or will it just be pushed under
> ground more ?


If she's intentionally going to get hit on, or worse, then it will be pushed underground. If she has honest intentions, then you can discuss it. But you can't know which one it is.


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## BrockLanders

Do you know the husbands of the other women? Wonder what they think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mysterio

i know 1 is very happy married, one is single , one has had numerous breakups with same partner and one has said she thinks her man is too fat and would be tempted to have a ons with an ex !


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## Mysterio

ps : the only reason i know this is because my wife has told me !


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## A Bit Much

I think her comment 'what would we talk about, the kids?' is a jab at you. You aren't FUN. You and she don't have anything FUN to talk about.

Girls (some) like to get together to bash/complain about their spouses, or gossip. The drinking makes such sessions more lively and fun, and in the process loosens them up to forget about their problems for a few hours. When you add in dancing at clubs with strange men, now you have something ELSE to talk about for the rest of the night and something to build on and talk about for the next time you get together.


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## Entropy3000

Westwind said:


> I remember sitting behind two women on public transit and I tried to follow what they were saying. It must have been some kind of stream of consciousness thing because I could not make any logical conclusion about what they were saying and gave up listening to them. You get women together and they just like to talk like that. If a man were to intrude with the idea of trying to pick up one of them, well he would probably eventually be driven away trying to fit into the conversation. A guy is better off approaching a woman who is by herself, so do not worry about what goes on in a girls night out.


:scratchhead:

:rofl:


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## Trying2figureitout

3-5am is REALLY LATE!

Bars close at 2am... I'd be very concerned.

Even my social butterfly wife would be home prior to bar closing time 98 % of the time. Never after 3am and if that's the norm you have big issues.


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## Entropy3000

IsGirl3 said:


> has she given you reason to suspect that she might cheat on you? how is your relationship? Can you tell if she really loves you?
> 
> GNO sounds like fun. I'm not sure I see anything wrong with 5 women getting together and dancing and drinking at a club. It's a fun bonding time. When I go out, with my H or girlfriends, I dress nicer.
> 
> If she likes dressing sexy, do you give her the opportunity to do this? Do you go to clubs with her?
> 
> My H has boys night out 5-6X/year. He doesn't spill the beans on what's up with each guy, but they just sit around a bar, drink beer, and watch whatever sports game is on TV.
> 
> If there isn't a guy out there that is threatening your marriage, I think you should relax about her letting loose and having fun with her friends.


Lets see. Guys at a sports bar watching sports on the one hand. Not a whol lot of all night sports bar BTW.

Or a woman dressing sexy, flirting and drinking weith men that want to nag her brains out. Until 5AM.

What venues are open at 5AM?

So how is what you suggest remotely the same?

How about the men going out all noght and picking up women? Is that the same? I think so.


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## Entropy3000

Mysterio said:


> perfect for what .. innocent or something to worry about.
> 
> I have no reason to think that she is hooking up at all
> ( maybe im nieve)
> 
> maybe she is getting hit on ( she cant help that ?)
> but flirting back ( if she is ) is a no no...
> 
> :'The lack of disclosure (I'm guessing even RESISTANCE to disclosure) are a HUGE red flag.'
> 
> should I bring up the whole gno thing again ( she prob hit the roof and say im back to my old ways of thinking )
> or should i calm down and say nothing :scratchhead


Ttoally unaccaptable in my marriage. Not one time would this ever be ok.

Unless you are into the hotwife fetish this is NOT marriage friendly. Why you acceptrd this I have no idea.

Realize accepting this has made you even less attractive to her and this other guys more so.

At best this is playing just the tip. By realisitcally if you saw what was going on your would probably vomit.

Sorry, I did not marry my wife to share her with other men in this way. YMMV

You should tell her that you have made a decision. That these particualr types of GNOs are not acceptable to you. And that if she insists in doing them you can no longer stand by and accept it. She can do what she wants but you will see her as disrespecting you and your marriage if she continues. And therefore you cannot live in that kind of marriage. Do not argue about this. This is your decsion about your boundaries. She is free to do what she wants woth her life but she may just have to do it wothout you.

Soem folsk like little breaks from marriage. Anything short of the above is going to be a FAIL for your marriage. 

GNOs are important. These are flirting with an open marriage. If she wants to go to the club then you take her.

If you are unable to engage this and be assertive she will find men who are bold and more exciting than you.


----------



## BrockLanders

Bars around here are open until 4am. I don't think the time is such a big deal, it's the venue.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

BrockLanders said:


> Bars around here are open until 4am. I don't think the time is such a big deal, it's the venue.


Nothing good happens to married people after 2am away from their spouse.


----------



## jay_gatsby

SomedayDig said:


> I know you're new and everything, but you said you read the threads about GNO's.
> 
> You have the same questions that have been pondered in every single thread.
> 
> Of course she was hit on. Of course she flirted back. Her perception is she can have fun without you.


I am new to this forum, but my question is simple... is there something wrong with that? As long as it stops there, why is there a problem? I am not advocating cheating in any way, but what is wrong with a little fun with close friends?


----------



## Shaggy

So she takes a pile of money to pay for a night of her own drinking?

Or she buys one, and accepts many from other guys?


----------



## SadSamIAm

Trying2figureitout said:


> Nothing good happens to married people after 2am away from their spouse.


I think after 2am nothing good happens to anyone (unless you are home in bed). 

When I was young, that was when things got out of control. Guys fighting, couples breaking up, people getting sick, etc.


----------



## BrockLanders

I couldn't stay up until 4am if I wanted to lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## A Bit Much

As my MIL so eloquently puts it...

The only thing open at that hour are some legs.


----------



## SomedayDig

jay_gatsby said:


> I am new to this forum, but my question is simple... is there something wrong with that? As long as it stops there, why is there a problem? I am not advocating cheating in any way, but what is wrong with a little fun with close friends?


Well, around these parts wives going out on GNO's and getting hit on, flirting back and dancing with other guys who...come on ~ we're all adults here ~ only wanna get a piece of ass; well, we don't advocate that.


----------



## MrK

Unless you get some proof, you're just a boring husband who won't let his wife out for a little innocent fun. Get a PI. ONE NIGHT. Show her the cell footage after just a couple of hours, along with a detailed description of where she went after the bars close, and it's done. I guarantee it.

OK. I'm out now.


----------



## Lyris

Are we doing this again? Seriously?


----------



## Caribbean Man

Westwind said:


> A guy is better off approaching a woman who is by herself, so do not worry about what goes on in a girls night out.


I haven't read the entire thread, but this post made me smile.
I remember doing the _" conga line "_ with groups of slightly inebriated women way past midnight in the clubs,more than once...


----------



## PHTlump

jay_gatsby said:


> I am new to this forum, but my question is simple... is there something wrong with that? As long as it stops there, why is there a problem? I am not advocating cheating in any way, but what is wrong with a little fun with close friends?


There are two problems. First, it often doesn't stop there. Second, it's incredibly disrespectful to husbands. Most marriages are intended to be monogamous. So why should women encourage attention from other men who are looking for casual sex? What good, besides stroking the woman's ego, can come from that? I say find another way to stroke your ego.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

If I'm out til 4am it's going to be with my partner in crime,my SO.


----------



## ClimbingTheWalls

If she likes going out dancing (I do), do you ever take her out dancing?


----------



## Trying2figureitout

PHTlump said:


> There are two problems. First, it often doesn't stop there. Second, it's incredibly disrespectful to husbands. Most marriages are intended to be monogamous. So why should women encourage attention from other men who are looking for casual sex? What good, besides stroking the woman's ego, can come from that? I say find another way to stroke your ego.


Not all women who do GNO are there to attract attention of other single men. Sometimes they are just hanging with other wives and trying to feel young again and doing an eye candy search for younger males . Is it needed... who knows I'm not concerned with feeling old.

Probably on the same level as 4-hours of Golf for a guy... is it needed not really but some guys see it as a way to hang with other husbands and do an eye candy search for younger females.

Do either challenge monogamy? Not really.

I do neither I don't need "tricks" to feel ok.


----------



## anony2

sinnister said:


> I think the reason why some women have no problem with going to a bar and drinking and dancing for the girls night out and coming home at 3am is because they truly do not understand men.
> 
> It doesn't matter what the wifes motivation is. It just doesn't. *What matters is what happens in an environment where you have a lot of men who are completely hell bent on getting laid, and a group of women with lowered inhibitions due to alcohol consumption. *Bad things happen when you put yourself in position for it.


So if a married man goes to a bar, his intentions are always to get laid?


----------



## PHTlump

Trying2figureitout said:


> Not all women who do GNO are there to attract attention of other single men.


True. But, if they're in bars/clubs, they're going to get attention. So it seems foolish to go to a place where you will get what you don't want. I mean, you're not going to go to a restaurant if you're not hungry, are you?



> Probably on the same level as 4-hours of Golf for a guy... is it needed not really but some guys see it as a way to hang with other husbands and do an eye candy search for younger females.


Not at all. A foursome of men on a golf course will only interact with themselves for 4-5 hours. Yes, there might be a pretty girl on a drink cart, or tending bar at the club house. But you would have more interaction with waitresses at a restaurant or sports bar then you do at a golf course.


----------



## PHTlump

anony2 said:


> So if a married man goes to a bar, his intentions are always to get laid?


Nobody ever said that every single man at a bar is there to get laid. I'm sure that, if you polled every man at a dance club, you could find a couple that weren't interested in getting laid. But is that the kind of defense that should be acceptable from a married woman hanging out in a place like that? "I know you're upset honey, but I think there were a couple of guys in the back that weren't trying to get in my pants!"


----------



## RFguy

*Απ: A question about GNO's*

Your average straight man hates dancing. They go to dance clubs simply because thats where the women are.


----------



## TRy

Mysterio said:


> i know 1 is very happy married, one is single , one has had numerous breakups with same partner and one has said she thinks her man is too fat and would be tempted to have a ons with an ex !


 OK so most of these women are open to being picked up by men when they go clubbing with your wife. You saw a photo of one of these clubbing nights where a man was sitting with your wife and her friend. Thus there is no doubt at all that other men are welcome to join your wife and her friends when they go drinking and dancing until 5AM. I say other men because by definition the only men on the planet not welcome to join these women on their GNO are the husbands, that means you. Heck tell us when and where and many of the posters to this thread could have a shot at drinking and dancing with your wife if they wanted to; there is something wrong with that don't you think?

How you have let your wife get away with acting like she was single for so long is beyond me. Most of the other men that are partying with your wife would never let there wives do the same thing once they get married, but then again maybe that is why your wife likes spending time with them. Time to lower the boom and lay down the law. You do not need her permission to tell her that it is time that she stop pretending that she is single and act like she is your wife all 365 days of the year. Use that photo with the other man to tell her that you feel betrayed that GNO is not just girls as you had been led to believe and that she must stop clubbing with these toxic friends and other men until 5AM. Tell her that if she wants to have a GNO it must not be at clubs, there are to be no other men allowed to join them, and that she must be home at a reasonable hour. This in normal and reasonable, do not let her tell you otherwise.


----------



## NextTimeAround

SomedayDig said:


> Honestly, after Dday I grilled my wife about the GNO's. At first she was like - "they weren't any big deal". Til I kept on asking, then she finally realized how f'ng stupid ALL of the girls were that went. I made her also realize when we went on a date 6 months later how silly it all looked. I pointed out a couple cougarish chicks at the bar - WITH their rings on, and how all the young guys were flocking to them buying them drinks...
> 
> and just how f'ng pathetic those chicks looked...
> 
> and how the young girls on their GNO's _without_ wedding rings on were laughing at them.


I have to pull this post up just because of the age related issues here. Since I met my fiance in a pub 3 years ago at a time when I was firmly in the cougar category........ what is wrong with older women going out and accepting hospitality from men of any age ........


----------



## Trying2figureitout

PHTlump said:


> True. But, if they're in bars/clubs, they're going to get attention. So it seems foolish to go to a place where you will get what you don't want. I mean, you're not going to go to a restaurant if you're not hungry, are you?
> 
> 
> Not at all. A foursome of men on a golf course will only interact with themselves for 4-5 hours. Yes, there might be a pretty girl on a drink cart, or tending bar at the club house. But you would have more interaction with waitresses at a restaurant or sports bar then you do at a golf course.



But there you don't get to compare notes apart from your spouse about the opposite sex with your same sex friends and compare notes about each spouse while drunk and doing some physical action. Its basically an escape to feel younger and to interact with friends. I highly doubt most wives use GNO's to pick up single men...they go in a group for that very reason. To have strength in numbers to be left alone by stray guys and enjoy the time out away from home.

Is it needed or necessary?... guess it really depends on how extroverted you are.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> I highly doubt most wives use GNO's to pick up single men...they go in a group for that very reason. To have strength in numbers to be left alone by stray guys


 The photo of the wife sitting with another man and her friend during one of their GNO sort of disproves this statement in this case don't you think? We should not be arguing theory and focus on the OP's actual situation.


----------



## TRy

@OP: Know the following when you confront and tell her that on GNO she cannot go to clubs, hang with other men, and stay out until 5AM:

1) Other than when you are in the bathroom, there is no privacy in marriage. The only ones that need privacy and secrets are cheaters. She must be transparent going forward. 

2) You are married and must respect your marriage vows all 365 days of the year. You cannot take breaks from your marraige during the year to act like you are single with other men.

3) All spouses that are acting inappropriately will try to beat down their spouse with anger when they are told that they cannot continue with their inappropriate behavior. They do not want to stop the fun of their inappropriate behavior. You must not buy into this. You need to be angry right back.

4) All spouses that are acting inappropriately will call their spouses "jealous" and "controlling". It is part of the script. If she tells you this, tell her that you have a right to be jealous when she is acting inappropriately with other men, and that marriage is all about both of you agreeing to be controlled by the vows of your marraige. Tell her that she has a choice to be married or not married but she cannot have both.


----------



## SomedayDig

NextTimeAround said:


> I have to pull this post up just because of the age related issues here. Since I met my fiance in a pub 3 years ago at a time when I was firmly in the cougar category........ what is wrong with older women going out and accepting hospitality from men of any age ........


They had WEDDING RINGS on.

That is the difference.


----------



## Lovemytruck

Op,

You really need to spend some time reading the countless threads in the CWI section. Look for the thread that say something about "should I be concerned..."

I would challenge you to find ONE that has a happy ending when the wife is spending nights at a club with other men/women.

Your gut made you post this. You know inside that there is more than just a few friends enjoying there evening together.

It is depressing to know that you are getting sucked down the vortex. Blow it off if you choose. Most affairs die natural deaths anyway. She probably is not in a LTA or she would be hiding her phone, treating you poorly, using words like "controlling", etc. It sounds more like a string of ONS or new encounters. She probably enjoys the chase more than the catch.

Why don't you find a hobby that keeps you out till 5:00 with other women? I am sure she would be understanding if you did.

Sorry for the edge. Man, I hope you smell the coffee soon.

LOVED the idea that men are afraid to approach a group of women. 

Here's a tip... walk straight up to the HOTTIE of the group and ask if her friend (the 2nd-3rd hottest) is available. Tell her (the Hottie) that she (#2 or #3) is the best looking woman you ever saw!  Seems to make the hottie jealous, and flatter the one that needs attention. Win-win! Lol! Enjoy!


----------



## anony2

PHTlump said:


> Nobody ever said that every single man at a bar is there to get laid. I'm sure that, if you polled every man at a dance club, you could find a couple that weren't interested in getting laid. But is that the kind of defense that should be acceptable from a married woman hanging out in a place like that? "I know you're upset honey, but I think there were a couple of guys in the back that weren't trying to get in my pants!"


That isn't what I asked. I asked if a* married* man goes to a bar, are his intentions to get laid?

I am not asking this in defense of GNO's but to see if this is what you or others honestly believe. Personally, I don't do GNO, I do dating with my spouse which to me one night out with my spouse would be worth more than 100 GNO.


----------



## PHTlump

anony2 said:


> That isn't what I asked. I asked if a* married* man goes to a bar, are his intentions to get laid?


You misunderstood me. I wasn't talking about unmarried men. I used single in the numerical sense. So, I'm sure some married men aren't looking to get laid, but some are.



> I am not asking this in defense of GNO's but to see if this is what you or others honestly believe.


What I believe is that our environment affects our decisions. So, if a wife goes to a venue that promotes casual sex, and her friends are interested in casual sex, then she is much more likely to make a bad decision than if she were hanging out with her girlfriends at a restaurant, or a movie.


----------



## MrK

And so it continues. If you don't come back at all, OP, this will go on, just like this, for 30 more pages. 

Your "chats" didn't work, and won't. And if you try it, PLEASE let me know how the "laying down the law" thing goes . We saw the results of "why don't you go too". That leaves just one option left...

And if you blow it, it's done. So get a GOOD PI.


----------



## HWW2020

My question is should I know everything that happens on these nights out ( the ones worth mentioning that is ).
ie: was she 'hit on? '
did she flirt'? ..
what her perception of a GNO is ?

First, as a newcomer, I have to say this thread is fascinating. I don't have any specific answers to your 4 specific questions, but some points to ponder as you answer them for yourself. If you take question #1 and replace "should" with "is it natural in our relationship that"... Does she relate details of other social or work experiences where you are not present? Is this the only type of experience she doesn't share? Ahem. Is this the only type of experience where you are interested in knowing the details? Ahem. Your next two questions are honing in on the specific details you want to be reassured about, and the last seems to be about reassurance entirely. I LOVE reassurance. It is a gift I give to my spouse regularly -- no, you didn't screw up at work, yes, your joke was funny, yes, you're gorgeous -- and a gift he gives me when he remembers to.  

Another idea for you to explore, do you and your wife, or perhaps in the past, have specific experiences that make you nervous about this? I agree that the wrong environment makes vulnerable people more vulnerable to making crappy choices, but not everyone. Is there a specific reason YOU are uneasy about your wife's GNO's? Are you already worried, or are you asking if these GNO's should make you worried? Is she "hit on" in your presence? Does she often flirt in your presence? If so, then I'm not surprised you're wondering if it goes on during GNO. 1. She could be just drinking, dancing and hanging out with the friends, and the late hours are "proof" that sometimes she can just be independent and not have a curfew. A little bit of fantasy thinking, but I know I sometimes feel like I have lost myself in all my roles, and a GNO is a safe way to get that back. 2. She could be drinking, dancing and out till all hours hoping she'll hook up. Does that sound like the woman you know well? You said several times you aren't worried about infidelity. Then what? 3. She could be out till hours doing something else entirely. 

If what you want is reassurance that she doesn't do these nights because of something wrong with you or your marriage, then ASK! "I know I sound like I need reassurance, but could you give me some and tell me about your night?" If she refuses to talk about it at all--well, I know if I was doing things I was ashamed of, I wouldn't even be able to talk about the parts of it I wasn't ashamed of.


----------



## MrK

Mysterio said:


> ill decide what to do over this weekend , and let u all know what went down.


So, what's it going to be? Talk? Spy? Continue to suffer at home with the kids while she parties with strange men all night and do nothing about it?


----------



## SomedayDig

So, how late did your wife stay out this weekend, OP?


----------



## Mysterio

MrK said:


> So, what's it going to be? Talk? Spy? Continue to suffer at home with the kids while she parties with strange men all night and do nothing about it?


Please accept My apologies for not getting back to u peeps .
I had a great talk with my wife about her gno's..
The result is ... 'she has only one desire ..and that desire is 
'Me' .......I am 100% sure that is the case 

thank u all for your insight into my case , im happy now ..xxx


----------



## Mysterio

HWW2020 said:


> My question is should I know everything that happens on these nights out ( the ones worth mentioning that is ).
> ie: was she 'hit on? '
> did she flirt'? ..
> what her perception of a GNO is ?
> 
> First, as a newcomer, I have to say this thread is fascinating. I don't have any specific answers to your 4 specific questions, but some points to ponder as you answer them for yourself. If you take question #1 and replace "should" with "is it natural in our relationship that"... Does she relate details of other social or work experiences where you are not present? Is this the only type of experience she doesn't share? Ahem. Is this the only type of experience where you are interested in knowing the details? Ahem. Your next two questions are honing in on the specific details you want to be reassured about, and the last seems to be about reassurance entirely. I LOVE reassurance. It is a gift I give to my spouse regularly -- no, you didn't screw up at work, yes, your joke was funny, yes, you're gorgeous -- and a gift he gives me when he remembers to.
> 
> Another idea for you to explore, do you and your wife, or perhaps in the past, have specific experiences that make you nervous about this? I agree that the wrong environment makes vulnerable people more vulnerable to making crappy choices, but not everyone. Is there a specific reason YOU are uneasy about your wife's GNO's? Are you already worried, or are you asking if these GNO's should make you worried? Is she "hit on" in your presence? Does she often flirt in your presence? If so, then I'm not surprised you're wondering if it goes on during GNO. 1. She could be just drinking, dancing and hanging out with the friends, and the late hours are "proof" that sometimes she can just be independent and not have a curfew. A little bit of fantasy thinking, but I know I sometimes feel like I have lost myself in all my roles, and a GNO is a safe way to get that back. 2. She could be drinking, dancing and out till all hours hoping she'll hook up. Does that sound like the woman you know well? You said several times you aren't worried about infidelity. Then what? 3. She could be out till hours doing something else entirely.
> 
> If what you want is reassurance that she doesn't do these nights because of something wrong with you or your marriage, then ASK! "I know I sound like I need reassurance, but could you give me some and tell me about your night?" If she refuses to talk about it at all--well, I know if I was doing things I was ashamed of, I wouldn't even be able to talk about the parts of it I wasn't ashamed of.




Thank u for your brilliant feedback..it (imo) my insecurities..
We Talked and hey we are soo much better 4 it !:smthumbup:


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

anony2 said:


> That isn't what I asked. I asked if a* married* man goes to a bar, are his intentions to get laid?
> 
> I am not asking this in defense of GNO's but to see if this is what you or others honestly believe. Personally, I don't do GNO, I do dating with my spouse which to me one night out with my spouse would be worth more than 100 GNO.


If a married man goes to a bar himself ... then chances are good that is what his intentions are. If he is with other married guys then no, probably not. Fun to look but nothing would probably happen. I was asked by a few guys (2 married, 1 single and gay) to get a beer after work today ... I couldn't go but I guarantee you nothing would have happened. Not a chance. Not even if I had the inclination to cheat.


----------



## weightlifter

So she agreed to no more late gnos? No pouting? Congratulations you married a rare one.

Actually gnos at most other places are great. Just not clubs and bars.

Just hire a female pi if she insists on it again and you will get all the info you need.


----------



## NostalgicConfusion

Unless you have reason to think otherwise, you should cool off. I, myself, love GNO every once in awhile and NOTHING HAPPENS. 

Just because you are married does not mean that you are dead and cannot have fun outside of your marriage. 

There is nothing to worry about unless there are signs to tell you otherwise. And GNO is not a sign in and of itself. Give her the freedom she deserves to have fun and alone time with her female friends. Just because she has a night out without you once every two months does not mean anything negative against you. Be a good man and support her relationships with other women outside of your relationship  

It is healthy for her to hang out with her lady friends....unless she shows signs otherwise.

Relax.


----------



## weightlifter

NostalgicConfusion said:


> Unless you have reason to think otherwise, you should cool off. I, myself, love GNO every once in awhile and NOTHING HAPPENS.
> 
> Just because you are married does not mean that you are dead and cannot have fun outside of your marriage.
> 
> There is nothing to worry about unless there are signs to tell you otherwise. And GNO is not a sign in and of itself. Give her the freedom she deserves to have fun and alone time with her female friends. Just because she has a night out without you once every two months does not mean anything negative against you. Be a good man and support her relationships with other women outside of your relationship
> 
> It is healthy for her to hang out with her lady friends....unless she shows signs otherwise.
> 
> Relax.


Still depends where. Clubs and bars are bad. 3 to 5 am is bad. Drinks from other men, dancing with other men is bad.
Most others are very very good. Dinner, shopping, parks, other womens homes with no other men...

As pointed out above. There are two kinds of men in dance clubs.
1). Ones that are brought there by the women in their lives.
2). Players and pua looking for some.

Given how easily she agreed and appears to not be pouting... He is a lucky man.


----------



## ianos

Mysterio said:


> Please accept My apologies for not getting back to u peeps .
> I had a great talk with my wife about her gno's..
> The result is ... 'she has only one desire ..and that desire is
> 'Me' .......I am 100% sure that is the case
> 
> thank u all for your insight into my case , im happy now ..xxx



She didnt say that she stop GNO she says that her only desire is him 
What i get from this is ,dondt wory about me partying all night long with other men as long as i return to you.


----------



## torani

Mysterio said:


> ok , so even if its only 5 or 6 times a yr ( I supose thats beside the point).. Should I sit her down and say im not happy with the 'dancing'?
> 
> *No, you should be happy that she is out dancing rather than something much worse... My x lied about being at bars, I found womens phone numbers in his jeans, became an alcoholic and started doing illegal drugs...
> 
> She only does this a few times a year... The dancing seems minor... She is faithful so why are you so paranoid? If you start grilling her about what all goes on when she is doing GNO, because of your insecurities, she wont want to share things with you in the future and will likely cause resentment... *
> 
> I dont think its ok for a married person to flirt , but what if its only for a laugh , I know thats a bit of a slippery slope, but am i over-reacting a tad ?
> 
> *Yes you are over reacting... Have you NEVER flirted or been flirted with the duration of your marriage? Flirting is very innocent in most cases...*
> 
> I did see a photo recently of her , her friend and a random bloke at a club , it was nothing sexual or anything but it made me wonder
> 'Is this what they do'??
> ( she was sitting beside me when her friend showed me the photo, but i dont think I was ment to see 'that' one !
> 
> *How can you say you weren't meant to see the picture.. if they had something to hide the friend would not have shown her in front of you... *


*Yes, its likely she gets hit on but it sounds to me like she is honest with you and faithful to you. She is handling those situations exactly as she should... Tells them she is married.. that means she is telling them she is not interested in their advances. You should be proud of her for this... Many married women don't do that...*


----------



## torani

One more thing, instead of approaching her with insecure questions try just asking her how her GNO went, did she have fun, what all did they do? Ask her if anything funny happened etc.. keep it as a positive conversation. I love when my partner asks me about my day or something I went out and did. He is my partner and my friend, its nice to share my life with him and most women love to chat about it... So chat her up like your a friend, just make sure you are not coming off like you are worried she did something wrong...


----------



## weightlifter

Tor. Sorry disagree.

If she did something horrible she is gonna lie and say nothing happened.

Ack misread his reply.

She could be lying to his face.
or not

Staying out till 5AM at clubs.
Good luck on that. Especially since they close at ~2AM. And what is she doing for the next 3 hours.

I feel for the guy. I have a feeling we will see him in about 6 months with a much worse story.

Hope I am wrong tho.


----------



## MrK

weightlifter said:


> I feel for the guy. I have a feeling we will see him in about 6 months with a much worse story.
> 
> Hope I am wrong tho.


I don't think you are. I also misread his response. It does seem like "Don't worry, I love only you. See you at 5AM"

Did she talk at all about what goes on until 5AM? Does she ever? Does she tell you about her interactions with other men? I told you talking was not a good idea. Next time she goes out, and there WILL BE a next time, take my advice and spy.


----------



## TRy

Mysterio said:


> Please accept My apologies for not getting back to u peeps .
> I had a great talk with my wife about her gno's..
> The result is ... 'she has only one desire ..and that desire is
> 'Me' .......I am 100% sure that is the case
> 
> thank u all for your insight into my case , im happy now ..xxx





Mysterio said:


> Thank u for your brilliant feedback..it (imo) my insecurities..
> We Talked and hey we are soo much better 4 it !:smthumbup:


 You do know that all cheaters tell you that they are not cheating? You do know that all cheaters tell you that you have nothing to worry about and that the problem is with your insecurities? The standard cheaters script is to tell you that you are you are being jealous and insecure. The betrayed spouse (BS) that allow this to continue, worry so much about being controlling, that they forget that marriage is all about controlling your actions such that you no longer act like you are single. 

Con men say the they can fool anyone as long as the person being conned wants to believe the lie. You want to believe that there is nothing going on. You will probably be back once you wake up to the facts.


----------



## inarut

Not all clubs close at 2am...depends where you live. Not all women who like to go dancing with a group of girlfriends now and then are going to or looking to get laid. Nor are all women looking for attention or validation from other men on these GNO making them vulnerable to affairs. There are women who have self control and common sense. I've read enough on here to know that there are women who are not like this but they are not the standard, "typical" woman. Lumping all women in one basket and labeling this particular activity as some sort of gateway to an open marriage or an intent to cheat or the best one ...women just cant even trust themselves or be trusted in such a situation is nonsense. 

If your relationship is having problems or distanced, I would worry. If it becomes excessive...I would worry. If she doesnt enjoy or seek your company above others... basically prioritize your time together (which doesnt mean she doesnt value individual time)...worry. Otherwise trust until you have a reason not to. Clubbing on occasion alone is not a reason to doubt faithfulness.

Many guys dont like dancing but when they get together a bar will typically be a place they end up at some point. If your looking to get laid a man can do so just as easily at a bar. There are people there looking to pick up as well. So, if a husband goes to a bar with a bunch of his friends should it automatically be assumed he is looking to get laid? Because it is a place where he might be hit on. Should that be a reason he shouldnt be allowed to go? A person can be hit on anywhere and you know what...if theyre going to cheat they are going to cheat and there isnt anything you can do about it aside from working on being the best partner and having the best relationship that you can. You cant wrap your partner in a bubble so you can feel a false sense of security. If I have to keep my partner on a leash in order for him to stay faithful then I dont want him. Some boundaries are appropriate...some are not.


----------



## itscomplicatedforsure

inarut said:


> Not all clubs close at 2am...depends where you live. Not all women who like to go dancing with a group of girlfriends now and then are going to or looking to get laid. Nor are all women looking for attention or validation from other men on these GNO making them vulnerable to affairs. There are women who have self control and common sense. I've read enough on here to know that there are women who are not like this but they are not the standard, "typical" woman. Lumping all women in one basket and labeling this particular activity as some sort of gateway to an open marriage or an intent to cheat or the best one ...women just cant even trust themselves or be trusted in such a situation is nonsense.
> 
> If your relationship is having problems or distanced, I would worry. If it becomes excessive...I would worry. If she doesnt enjoy or seek your company above others... basically prioritize your time together (which doesnt mean she doesnt value individual time)...worry. Otherwise trust until you have a reason not to. Clubbing on occasion alone is not a reason to doubt faithfulness.
> 
> Many guys dont like dancing but when they get together a bar will typically be a place they end up at some point. If your looking to get laid a man can do so just as easily at a bar. There are people there looking to pick up as well. So, if a husband goes to a bar with a bunch of his friends should it automatically be assumed he is looking to get laid? Because it is a place where he might be hit on. Should that be a reason he shouldnt be allowed to go? A person can be hit on anywhere and you know what...if theyre going to cheat they are going to cheat and there isnt anything you can do about it aside from working on being the best partner and having the best relationship that you can. You cant wrap your partner in a bubble so you can feel a false sense of security.


:iagree:
Thank you, inarut, for saying this. I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it again, there is way too much judgment and assumption going on here. 
One person's situation does NOT automatically apply to everyone else.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

NostalgicConfusion said:


> Unless you have reason to think otherwise, you should cool off. I, myself, love GNO every once in awhile and NOTHING HAPPENS.
> 
> Just because you are married does not mean that you are dead and cannot have fun outside of your marriage.
> 
> There is nothing to worry about unless there are signs to tell you otherwise. And GNO is not a sign in and of itself. Give her the freedom she deserves to have fun and alone time with her female friends. Just because she has a night out without you once every two months does not mean anything negative against you. Be a good man and support her relationships with other women outside of your relationship
> 
> It is healthy for her to hang out with her lady friends....unless she shows signs otherwise.
> 
> Relax.


I think a lot of it depends ... 

1) Where is she going
2) Who is she with ... and do you trust them
3) Can she account for her whereabouts
4) What time does she come home
5) What is she wearing
5) Does she act differently when she comes home

6) Someone mentioned that not all clubs close at 2am. True, not all close depending on where you are at but why does she have to stay out until 5:00am? 

7) Who is driving her home
8) Does she check in with you or respond to your calls/texts

I do wonder why it has to be a club. There is such a thing as trust but I prefer "trust but verify". Most ... no, ALL clubs are meat markets, some more than others. Back in my younger years, I've been to clubs where people are essentially having sex without penetration on the dance floor (and some you're not so sure) with scant clothing separating them. Not all clubs are the same.

I don't have a problem with my wife going on GNO ... she goes pretty much every friday night. All her friends are married with children and if they don't meet at somebody's house they go to places like Applebees or the local tex-mex place. My wife doesn't drink and most of her friends don't. She rarely stays out past 11. Sometimes she takes the kids if one of the other moms has nobody to watch her kids. I will admit that in her younger years, she would on a rare occasion go to a club to go dancing but I knew and trusted her friends, she never came home drunk, was always transparent about where she would be and made sure I was ok with it, was always home at a reasonable time and came back with the friends she left with ... I was vigilante, more-so than I am now, but I saw no red flags. 

I don't think GNO is necessarily a bad thing ... but if there is any secrecy around it at all or other red flags, I would be concerned.


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## inarut

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I think a lot of it depends ...
> 
> 1) Where is she going
> 2) Who is she with ... and do you trust them
> 3) Can she account for her whereabouts
> 4) What time does she come home
> 5) What is she wearing
> 5) Does she act differently when she comes home
> 
> 6) *Someone mentioned that not all clubs close at 2am. True, not all close depending on where you are at but why does she have to stay out until 5:00am? *
> 7) Who is driving her home
> 8) Does she check in with you or respond to your calls/texts
> 
> I do wonder why it has to be a club. There is such a thing as trust but I prefer "trust but verify". Most ... no, ALL clubs are meat markets, some more than others. Back in my younger years, I've been to clubs where people are essentially having sex without penetration on the dance floor (and some you're not so sure) with scant clothing separating them. Not all clubs are the same.
> 
> I don't have a problem with my wife going on GNO ... she goes pretty much every friday night. All her friends are married with children and if they don't meet at somebody's house they go to places like Applebees or the local tex-mex place. My wife doesn't drink and most of her friends don't. She rarely stays out past 11. Sometimes she takes the kids if one of the other moms has nobody to watch her kids. I will admit that in her younger years, she would on a rare occasion go to a club to go dancing but I knew and trusted her friends, she never came home drunk, was always transparent about where she would be and made sure I was ok with it, was always home at a reasonable time and came back with the friends she left with ... I was vigilante, more-so than I am now, but I saw no red flags.
> 
> I don't think GNO is necessarily a bad thing ... but if there is any secrecy around it at all or other red flags, I would be concerned.


I cant even remember the last time I stayed out until 5am and its been over a year since i went to a club but do you know how rare and hard it can be (relationships, kids, work, responsibilities, just life in general) to get your whole group of close friends together for a night out. You dance, talk, laugh, catch up, reminisce. Then you go and eat. Its just fun, harmless fun.

To comment on all the questions you need answered. Dont men value women who trust them. Isnt that a top need for men...to be trusted? Dont men feel disrespected (another top need being respect) when they are trustworthy yet they are interrogated and questioned and treated as if they are not? I also hate the whole "toxic friend" thing. I have a mind of my own. Women have minds of their own. Girls may not. I cant be "corrupted". I am who I am. 

I find the predominant attitude and belief system about women on this topic, and frankly some others, disresptful and hugely insulting. Dont make good women pay the price for not so good women.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

inarut said:


> I cant even remember the last time I stayed out until 5am and its been over a year since i went to a club but do you know how rare and hard it can be (relationships, kids, work, responsibilities, just life in general) to get your whole group of close friends together for a night out. You dance, talk, laugh, catch up, reminisce. Then you go and eat. Its just fun, harmless fun.
> 
> Dont men value women who trust them. Isnt that a top need for men...to be trusted? Dont men feel disrespected (another top need) when they are trustworthy yet they are interrogated and questioned and treated as if they are not?
> 
> I find the predominant attitude and belief system about women on this topic, and frankly some others, disresptful and hugely insulting. Dont make good women pay the price for not so good women.


Ok wait ... there is a difference between giving the third degree and keeping vigilante. If something doesn't add up then I think you have to verify. This site is replete with men and women who ignored the red flags and stories that didn't add up because they trusted implicitly only to feel like a fool later. Somehow their partners didn't value the trust given to them ... except that they could use it to their advantage. I know when my wife is being transparent and when something is up. She can expect questions when she isn't being completely transparent. I would expect the same.

EDIT: There is also a difference between somebody who only occasionally goes out to a club with her friends and can't even remember the last time they came back at 5am ... and somebody who makes a weekly habit of going and coming back just before the sun comes up. Huge difference. The first is a healthy break from a hectic life ... the other is a lifestyle.


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## inarut

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Ok wait ... there is a difference between giving the third degree and keeping vigilante. If something doesn't add up then I think you have to verify. This site is replete with men and women who ignored the red flags and stories that didn't add up because they trusted implicitly only to feel like a fool later. Somehow their partners didn't value the trust given to them ... except that they could use it to their advantage. I know when my wife is being transparent and when something is up. She can expect questions when she isn't being completely transparent. I would expect the same.


Some of your questions came off like the 3rd degree, not all. 
You have a point but there is a difference between ignoring a true red flag...i.e...being a fool and seeing red flags where there are none or seeing threats and attempting to "guard" them everywhere. If things dont add up, I agree, verify. This perception of keeping "vigilante" can become out of control. That line between giving the third degree, being disrespectful, being insulting and staying "vigilante" becomes blurred.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

inarut said:


> Some of your questions came off like the 3rd degree, not all.
> You have a point but there is a difference between ignoring a true red flag...i.e...being a fool and seeing red flags where there are none or seeing threats and attempting to "guard" them everywhere. If things dont add up, I agree, verify. This perception of keeping "vigilante" can become out of control. That line between giving the third degree, being disrespectful, being insulting and staying "vigilante" becomes blurred.


I would agree and there are some people here who cross that line but I would still argue that your ears and eyes need to be on alert. If she is headed out the door in a skimpy outfit with fvck me pumps on and all she tells me is she's going out with some friends and she doesn't know when she's going to get back ... I don't think it would be out of line to start with some questions. The right thing to do would be to discuss it with your spouse ahead of time, not because they don't trust you, but out of respect for them ... whether it is a wife or husband. I don't think it would be any different if all you planned to do was go shopping for a few hours on a Saturday afternoon.


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## inarut

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I would agree and there are some people here who cross that line but I would still argue that your ears and eyes need to be on alert. If she is headed out the door in a skimpy outfit with fvck me pumps on and all she tells me is she's going out with some friends and she doesn't know when she's going to get back ... I don't think it would be out of line to start with some questions. The right thing to do would be to discuss it with your spouse ahead of time, not because they don't trust you, but out of respect for them ... whether it is a wife or husband. I don't think it would be any different if all you planned to do was go shopping for a few hours on a Saturday afternoon.


:iagree:


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## JustSomeGuyWho

inarut said:


> Some of your questions came off like the 3rd degree, not all.
> You have a point but there is a difference between ignoring a true red flag...i.e...being a fool and seeing red flags where there are none or seeing threats and attempting to "guard" them everywhere. If things dont add up, I agree, verify. This perception of keeping "vigilante" can become out of control. That line between giving the third degree, being disrespectful, being insulting and staying "vigilante" becomes blurred.


Trying to figure out what questions come off as the 3rd degree:

Is it unfair to ask who she is going with, where they are going or when they are getting back? Should I be worried if she doesn't get back when she says ... maybe something bad happened? Who would I get hold of if I need her and can't get hold of her? 

I don't think that if she comes back when I'm getting up, it is too prying to ask what the heck she was doing when all I knew was she was going to the club.

The rest are just observations. 

If I have to work late, I will tell my wife ... hey, I will be at the office and expect to get home around X. I have to work on <fill in reason>. I don't think it would be unreasonable for her to be a little upset with me if I didn't come back when I said I would and didn't tell her. I am available on my phone if she needs me. If I tell her I'm at the office and I come home reeking of beer and cigarettes, I'm pretty sure she'll know I wasn't at the office and I would expect her to start asking questions. I would also expect her to not be so trustworthy the next time I tell her I'm working late. Now, if she drives by the office to look for my car or constantly calls my office phone to check up on me ... then yes, that is crossing the line.


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## inarut

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Ok wait ... there is a difference between giving the third degree and keeping vigilante. If something doesn't add up then I think you have to verify. This site is replete with men and women who ignored the red flags and stories that didn't add up because they trusted implicitly only to feel like a fool later. Somehow their partners didn't value the trust given to them ... except that they could use it to their advantage. I know when my wife is being transparent and when something is up. She can expect questions when she isn't being completely transparent. I would expect the same.
> 
> *EDIT: There is also a difference between somebody who only occasionally goes out to a club with her friends and can't even remember the last time they came back at 5am ... and somebody who makes a weekly habit of going and coming back just before the sun comes up. Huge difference. The first is a healthy break from a hectic life ... the other is a lifestyle.*




:iagree:


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## inarut

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Trying to figure out what questions come off as the 3rd degree:
> 
> Is it unfair to ask who she is going with, where they are going or when they are getting back? Should I be worried if she doesn't get back when she says ... maybe something bad happened? Who would I get hold of if I need her and can't get hold of her?
> 
> I don't think that if she comes back when I'm getting up, it is too prying to ask what the heck she was doing when all I knew was she was going to the club.
> 
> The rest are just observations.
> 
> If I have to work late, I will tell my wife ... hey, I will be at the office and expect to get home around X. I have to work on <fill in reason>. I don't think it would be unreasonable for her to be a little upset with me if I didn't come back when I said I would and didn't tell her. I am available on my phone if she needs me. If I tell her I'm at the office and I come home reeking of beer and cigarettes, I'm pretty sure she'll know I wasn't at the office and I would expect her to start asking questions. I would also expect her to not be so trustworthy the next time I tell her I'm working late. Now, if she drives by the office to look for my car or constantly calls my office phone to check up on me ... then yes, that is crossing the line.


i think much of it depends on the tone, timing and manner in which the questions are asked. everything you have stated and the way you stated it seems normal and reasonable.

you are also pointing out legitimate red flags and cause for possible mistrust and the need for questioning. still normal and reasonable. 

i also agree that there should be open, honest, transparent communication.

i still think this is different than making blanket demands and having preconceived notions of what is appropriate and allowable for a SO.


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## MrK

I'm not even reading this. WHY, in gods name, do all of these threads turn into a "Clubbing: good or bad for a relationship". Please. We are not cavemen. We UNDERSTAND that not all GNO's are bad. But we are not talking about a GNO where the wife tells the husband where she is going. What she does when she's there. What she does when the clubs close. Where they go afterwards. Who she parties with.

Why don't we look at THIS guy and how HIS wife behaves. I'm really glad all of you have the kind of relationship where communication is open and you tell your husbands all about your interactions with strange men.

READ HIS POSTS!!! He doesn't even think his wife talks to strange men when she's out. He doesn't think she dances with them all night. He doesn't think she is with men she just met after the clubs close.

Please. Clubbing defenders. Make your own thread titled "Clubbing: let us go you Neanderthal control freaks". Then tell everyone THERE why clubbing is good for YOUR marriage.

But when you are in threads like this. Address the OP's situation from a perspective of what you see going on at clubs along with the secrecy teh wife exhibits. Do you really feel all married women go to clubs just to dance in a man-free circle. REALLY? Please be honest..

Please. Feel free to say "My man is stronger and more confident than you and I am a better person than you. But from the way you describe your wife's behavior plus what I've SEEN at clubs, you may have a reason to worry".

Clubbing defenders. You are not helping this guy. But his wife appreciates your advice. She just got a free pass to party with the boys as much as she wants while he's home with her kids.

And to the person who said "just because a bunch of guys end up at a club, does that mean they are looking to hook-up"? Of freakin' course it does. There is at least the possibility the gals aren't looking to party with men. There is ZERO possibility a group of men are in a meat market to dance with each other. ZERO!!!!!


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## ReformedHubby

MrK said:


> I'm not even reading this. WHY, in gods name, do all of these threads turn into a "Clubbing: good or bad for a relationship". Please. We are not cavemen. We UNDERSTAND that not all GNO's are bad. But we are not talking about a GNO where the wife tells the husband where she is going. What she does when she's there. What she does when the clubs close. Where they go afterwards. Who she parties with.
> 
> Why don't we look at THIS guy and how HIS wife behaves. I'm really glad all of you have the kind of relationship where communication is open and you tell your husbands all about your interactions with strange men.
> 
> READ HIS POSTS!!! He doesn't even think his wife talks to strange men when she's out. He doesn't think she dances with them all night. He doesn't think she is with men she just met after the clubs close.
> 
> Please. Clubbing defenders. Make your own thread titled "Clubbing: let us go you Neanderthal control freaks". Then tell everyone THERE why clubbing is good for YOUR marriage.
> 
> But when you are in threads like this. Address the OP's situation from a perspective of what you see going on at clubs along with the secrecy teh wife exhibits. Do you really feel all married women go to clubs just to dance in a man-free circle. REALLY? Please be honest..
> 
> Please. Feel free to say "My man is stronger and more confident than you and I am a better person than you. But from the way you describe your wife's behavior plus what I've SEEN at clubs, you may have a reason to worry".
> 
> Clubbing defenders. You are not helping this guy. But his wife appreciates your advice. She just got a free pass to party with the boys as much as she wants while he's home with her kids.
> 
> And to the moron who said "just because a bunch of guys end up at a club, does that mean they are looking to hook-up"? Of freakin' course it does. There is at least the possibility the gals aren't looking to party with men. There is ZERO possibility a group of men are in a meat market to dance with each other. ZERO!!!!!


Amen, brother. Too many threads turn into debates that are related to the original post but unhelpful to the person seeking advice.

To the original poster my wife goes out on GNOs but not at clubs. I am concerned about how late your wife stays out. There are after hours clubs, but seriously who wants to dance until 5 am? 

I don't want to put bad thoughts in your head but coming home at 5 am is just enough time to leave the club with some random dude and hook up. People don't tend to stay the night with random club hook ups. At least I never did, too awkward.

As a person that used to club a lot there one of two things I was doing after the club closed. Hooking up, or eating pancakes. Come to think of it, those are really the only two things you can do at that hour.


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## Caribbean Man

MrK said:


> I'm not even reading this. WHY, in gods name, do all of these threads turn into a "Clubbing: good or bad for a relationship". Please. We are not cavemen. We UNDERSTAND that not all GNO's are bad. But we are not talking about a GNO where the wife tells the husband where she is going. What she does when she's there. What she does when the clubs close. Where they go afterwards. Who she parties with.
> 
> Why don't we look at THIS guy and how HIS wife behaves. I'm really glad all of you have the kind of relationship where communication is open and you tell your husbands all about your interactions with strange men.
> 
> READ HIS POSTS!!! He doesn't even think his wife talks to strange men when she's out. He doesn't think she dances with them all night. He doesn't think she is with men she just met after the clubs close.
> 
> Please. Clubbing defenders. Make your own thread titled "Clubbing: let us go you Neanderthal control freaks". Then tell everyone THERE why clubbing is good for YOUR marriage.
> 
> But when you are in threads like this. Address the OP's situation from a perspective of what you see going on at clubs along with the secrecy teh wife exhibits. Do you really feel all married women go to clubs just to dance in a man-free circle. REALLY? Please be honest..
> 
> Please. Feel free to say "My man is stronger and more confident than you and I am a better person than you. But from the way you describe your wife's behavior plus what I've SEEN at clubs, you may have a reason to worry".
> 
> Clubbing defenders. You are not helping this guy. But his wife appreciates your advice. She just got a free pass to party with the boys as much as she wants while he's home with her kids.
> 
> And to the moron who said "just because a bunch of guys end up at a club, does that mean they are looking to hook-up"? Of freakin' course it does. There is at least the possibility the gals aren't looking to party with men. There is ZERO possibility a group of men are in a meat market to dance with each other. ZERO!!!!!


:iagree:


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## inarut

I see the op as a guy who is uncomfortable with his wife going out and I see his fears being fed by many here who are making assumptions about what she may or may not be doing. I'm not blind or naive as to what some people do at clubs. I don't know what his wifes intentions are nor does anyone else here. If she is unhappy and it is her intent to cheat then she will cheat if not at the club then somewhere else.

I'm not saying "my man is stronger, more confident or that I am a better person." I don't think the op is weak or insecure. He is human and its natural to feel these kinds of fears. If anyone is making him feel like a weak fool its those suggesting he is an idiot for trusting her and for even considering that she may not be doing anything wrong. Do you think that's helpful?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife

Mr. K said: "Make your own thread titled "Clubbing: let us go you Neanderthal control freaks". Then tell everyone THERE why clubbing is good for YOUR marriage."


I really want to make a thread in the Ladies Lounge titled this...yes, because it would be a hysterical title...but also to actually discuss the issue so that we have somewhere to go round and round about the topic.

.


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## MrK

inarut said:


> If anyone is making him feel like a weak fool its those suggesting he is an idiot for trusting her and for even considering that she may not be doing anything wrong. Do you think that's helpful?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_






Mysterio said:


> ' is she not telling me everything that went on ' regarding the GNO .
> So my issue is probably more of a bit of deception on her part.
> 
> ( 5yrs married, 15yrs together in total).
> 
> My question is should I know everything that happens on these nights out ( the ones worth mentioning that is ).
> ie: was she 'hit on? '
> did she flirt'? ..
> what her perception of a GNO is ?
> If she WAS hit on before she has told me that she has made it clear she is married ! ( Thats how I know she has been faithful)
> 
> I cant help getting the feeling that certain things are been kept from my me
> '





Mysterio said:


> I did see a photo recently of her , her friend and a random bloke at a club , it was nothing sexual or anything but it made me wonder
> 'Is this what they do'??
> ( she was sitting beside me when her friend showed me the photo, but i dont think I was ment to see 'that' one !





Mysterio said:


> :'The lack of disclosure (I'm guessing even RESISTANCE to disclosure) are a HUGE red flag.'





Mysterio said:


> I did notice one thing a few months ago though !
> she got home at 5am and i checked her phone next morning and she had a missed call from the only 'single girl' that was with them ..this missed call was at about 3:45am ..
> so check this :
> She said the reason they got in at 5am was because they went for some food and was awhile waiting for a cab ( this can happed) , but 3:45 -5am , a missed call in between ?then eating +waiting on cab all in the space of 1h 15min..somebody obviously wasent with the 'gang ' at the time of the missed call otherwise , WHY make such a call ?





Mysterio said:


> i did ask her , last week .
> she said 'sure what would we talk about , the kids'?





Mysterio said:


> i know 1 is very happy married, one is single , one has had numerous breakups with same partner and one has said she thinks her man is too fat and would be tempted to have a ons with an ex !


I think that's enough.

READ MY POST!!! I understand that you and your husband have an awesome relationship and you communicate everything to him. Does it REALLY look to you like this guy's wife is being open and honest about what she does until 5AM at a place that is best known for hooking up for casual sex? After 15 years he is here ASKING US what might be going on with his wife. Why wouldn't she try to console him instead of stonewalling and accusing him of being controlling. 

Are you for real? Anyone that tells him he shouldn't be concerned with this is doing the greater damage. That would be YOU. Why can't you see that her resistance to disclosure is a guaranteed red flag? I SO don't understand people like you. What is your agenda exactly?

OP. Spy next time she goes out. I GUARANTEE it will be an education for you.


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## weightlifter

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I would agree and there are some people here who cross that line but I would still argue that your ears and eyes need to be on alert. If she is headed out the door in a skimpy outfit with fvck me pumps on and all she tells me is she's going out with some friends and she doesn't know when she's going to get back ... I don't think it would be out of line to start with some questions. The right thing to do would be to discuss it with your spouse ahead of time, not because they don't trust you, but out of respect for them ... whether it is a wife or husband. I don't think it would be any different if all you planned to do was go shopping for a few hours on a Saturday afternoon.


Disagree respectfully of course.

Logans wife CHANGED CLOTHES!
Clubs and night bars are a bad thing for BOTH and should be very very rare. I get it that on VERY RARE occasion a friend is getting married etc.

And

No matter what the spouse says in discussion. If they are going out to flirt and dance with others. They will lie and say they are not.

>"just because a bunch of guys end up at a club, does that mean they are looking to hook-up"? Of freakin' course it does. There is at least the possibility the gals aren't looking to party with men. There is ZERO possibility a group of men are in a meat market to dance with each other. ZERO!!!!! < QFT

OP FEMALE PI. Men get stuck at the door of many clubs.


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## Entropy3000

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I would agree and there are some people here who cross that line but I would still argue that your ears and eyes need to be on alert. * If she is headed out the door in a skimpy outfit with fvck me pumps on and all she tells me is she's going out with some friends and she doesn't know when she's going to get back* ... I don't think it would be out of line to start with some questions. The right thing to do would be to discuss it with your spouse ahead of time, not because they don't trust you, but out of respect for them ... whether it is a wife or husband. I don't think it would be any different if all you planned to do was go shopping for a few hours on a Saturday afternoon.


Well you all folks argue this is you like. Frankly I am not asking questions in this scenario.

This would not be acceptable to me. Not even once. But thankfully my wife has never done this to us. We both let each other know our plans.
My wife only dresses like this when we go out together. But you know, she seems to love and respect me. I think I am going to keep her.

I actually am sorry for those that have this happen in their marriage. Big hug to you all. It is f'd up in my opinion.

I am not just sorry for those that are not ok with this, and that is the biggest issue. But I am also sorry for those that are ok with this. Good luck to all of you. Some folks have to live and learn. Others learn from others mistakes.


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## Thehusband2

So here is an alternative...
My wife hasnt gone to club for a year and a half in 2 weeks she got invited with 30 girls to a party on a salsa cruise it is one of the girls bday 9-11pm i believe ... After that i am sure some will wanna continue... What do u think about a wife is by no means attracted to that lifestyle but might just wanna continue partying with girls and who has significantly cut down drinking too like 2-3 drinks on occasion? 

Im conflicted because if it was more often or for no occasion id be inclined to say no! But it is the opposite... Never happens and this seems in the works for like a month...

Ideas
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK

I can't help you Husband2. My wife lost clubbing rights when a guy she hooked up with called her on the home phone to set up a date. 

Let me rephrase that. My wife gave up clubbing rights when that call killed her "we're just out dancing every other week until 3AM, you controlling Neanderthal" excuse to not talk to me about what she did while she was out.


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## Caribbean Man

Well here's the thing.
When you get married , YOU GIVE UP THE SINGLE LIFESTYLE.
My wife encourages me to go out wit my female friends because i have very few sociable male friends.
These female friends come WITH THEIR HUSBANDS whenever we go to wine bars , and so on.
By 12..Midnight or before , I a usually back at home. Not 3 AM nor 4 AM.
My wife and I have no kids , so she has a lot of freedom to do the things she desires. She doesn't go on the " GNO bar/ clubbing scene ", she goes on _girls only vacations_.She travels with her friends, and even when she travels, they don't visit clubs or discos.
When at home, they have their so called " girls nights out" its never a 
" _girls gone wild_ " scenario. They never visit clubs and she is back home by 12.00 midnight. all of them are married women.

We don't have kids so babysitting is not an issue. She could stay out all night if she pleases, but she respects herself , and more than that, she respects me.
I don't come in after 12.00 AM,so she doesn't come in after 12.00AM.

When I was single I used to party all night, and head to the beach at 5.00Am in the morning. I usually reached back home at around Sunday evening.
I have enjoyed that life to the fullest and no longer desire it. That's why I got married.
But if it works for you guys, then by all means enjoy.


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## inarut

Mysterio said:


> Hi everyone , Im new to TAM & have been reading tru the various discussions , especially about GNO'S.
> *My situation is probably a bit of paranoia *but hey ,I have to ask for advice.
> 
> *My issue isnt about cheating , (ie infidelity, I trust my wife on that matter) but more of a ' is she not telling me everything that went on ' regarding the GNO . *So my issue is probably more of a bit of deception on her part.
> 
> Ok , *my wife meets old work mates on a few occasions every year
> (probably only 5 or 6 times) . they are all women *of same age (late 30's , early 40's) 1 divorced , 1 married and 2 in long term relationships. When they meet up they go out for drinks and then various clubs, for ' dancing' .
> *I used to have a bit of a history of ' grilling her' the next day on what she got up to .* I used to ask alot of questions when i was younger but I have eased off since we got married ( 5yrs married, 15yrs together in total).
> 
> When they go out she comes home usually between 3am-5am
> they go for a bit to eat after the club ( which i know is true because they have been doin so for yrs)
> 
> My question is should I know everything that happens on these nights out ( the ones worth mentioning that is ).
> ie: was she 'hit on? '
> did she flirt'? ..
> what her perception of a GNO is ?
> If she WAS hit on before she has told me that she has made it clear she is married ! ( Thats how I know she has been faithful)
> 
> *I cant help getting the feeling that certain things are been kept from my me *Thanks for any replies ( male or female )
> '


I have no agenda.

He has a history of feeling paranoid and grilling her.


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## inarut

Mysterio said:


> Thats sounds so true buddy ( all problems are ones individual problems )
> 
> I have looked tru her cell phone messages +facebook +pictures etc and found nothing .
> 
> I did notice one thing a few months ago though !
> she got home at 5am and i checked her phone next morning and *she had a missed call from the only 'single girl' that was with them ..this missed* call was at about 3:45am ..
> so check this :
> She said the reason they got in at 5am was because they went for some food and was awhile waiting for a cab ( this can happed) , but 3:45 -5am , a missed call in between ?then eating +waiting on cab all in the space of 1h 15min..*somebody obviously wasent with the 'gang ' at the time of the missed call otherwise , WHY make such a call ?*And how do i spy on her when im at home with the kids ?


she missed a call from the only single girl who likely hooked up...yea...she probably wasnt with the gang (meaning the single girl)...she probably met the rest of them at the diner....


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## inarut

Mysterio said:


> i did ask her , last week .
> she said 'sure what would we talk about , the kids'?
> ans that its different when she with the friends ( of course, we all need friend time)
> sounds fishy though ..


I dont like her answer here either. he should take her anyway and make sure they have a great time. he should also suggest bringing the same friends and all the husbands to the club.


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## inarut

MrK said:


> I think that's enough.
> 
> READ MY POST!!! I understand that you and your husband have an awesome relationship and you communicate everything to him. Does it REALLY look to you like this guy's wife is being open and honest about what she does until 5AM at a place that is best known for hooking up for casual sex? After 15 years he is here ASKING US what might be going on with his wife. Why wouldn't she try to console him instead of stonewalling and accusing him of being controlling.
> 
> Are you for real? Anyone that tells him he shouldn't be concerned with this is doing the greater damage. That would be YOU. Why can't you see that her resistance to disclosure is a guaranteed red flag? I SO don't understand people like you. What is your agenda exactly?
> 
> OP. Spy next time she goes out. I GUARANTEE it will be an education for you.


where is the stone walling? where is the resistence to disclosure? he says he has a history of being paranoid about this and he just has a "feeling" he doesnt know everyrhing...ie...paranoia. maybe i am wrong and his wife is messing around but just maybe you are wrong.

she did console him. she did answer his questions. when she consoled him and he felt great many thought it made him all the more a fool.


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## inarut

Caribbean Man said:


> Well here's the thing.
> *When you get married , YOU GIVE UP THE SINGLE LIFESTYLE*.
> My wife encourages me to go out wit my female friends because i have very few sociable male friends.
> These female friends come WITH THEIR HUSBANDS whenever we go to wine bars , and so on.
> By 12..Midnight or before , I a usually back at home. Not 3 AM nor 4 AM.
> My wife and I have no kids , so she has a lot of freedom to do the things she desires. She doesn't go on the " GNO bar/ clubbing scene ", she goes on _girls only vacations_.She travels with her friends, and even when she travels, they don't visit clubs or discos.
> When at home,* they have their so called " girls nights out" its never a
> " girls gone wild " scenario. They never visit clubs and she is back home by 12.00 midnight. all of them are married women*.
> 
> We don't have kids so babysitting is not an issue. *She could stay out all night if she pleases, but she respects herself , and more than that, she respects me.*I don't come in after 12.00 AM,so she doesn't come in after 12.00AM.
> 
> When I was single I used to party all night, and head to the beach at 5.00Am in the morning. I usually reached back home at around Sunday evening.
> I have enjoyed that life to the fullest and no longer desire it. That's why I got married.
> But if it works for you guys, then by all means enjoy.


maybe i do have an agenda...

i agree, dont get married if you want to live the single life. i dont consider occasionally going to a club with girlfriends living the single life nor is it a "girls gone wild" night for most. I guess something that really gets me is the assumption that a married or committed woman who does go on occasion being viewed as disrespectful to herself or her partner.

and heaven forbid she dress nicely and put a pair of heels on....


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## inarut

weightlifter said:


> Disagree respectfully of course.
> 
> *Logans wife CHANGED CLOTHES!*
> Clubs and night bars are a bad thing for BOTH and should be very very rare. I get it that on VERY RARE occasion a friend is getting married etc.
> 
> And
> 
> No matter what the spouse says in discussion.* If they are going out to flirt and dance with others. They will lie and say they are not.*
> >"just because a bunch of guys end up at a club, does that mean they are looking to hook-up"? Of freakin' course it does. There is at least the possibility the gals aren't looking to party with men. There is ZERO possibility a group of men are in a meat market to dance with each other. ZERO!!!!! < QFT
> 
> OP FEMALE PI. Men get stuck at the door of many clubs.


and if this is the case and this is what a spouse is doing you have much bigger problems than the club. what does stopping her from going to the club accomplish other than to force her to do the very same thing somewhere else anyway???? if she is going to do it she will find a way. so what do you do then? lock her up? so now you feel good or ok because you think you can make it harder to cheat? good luck.i just dont get it. why live that way? why be with someone who needs that kind of monitoring to be faithful....this i dont get.


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## Thehusband2

inarut said:


> and if this is the case and this is what a spouse is doing you have much bigger problems than the club. what does stopping her from going to the club accomplish other than to force her to do the very same thing somewhere else anyway???? if she is going to do it she will find a way. so what do you do then? lock her up? so now you feel good or ok because you think you can make it harder to cheat? good luck.i just dont get it. why live that way? why be with someone who needs that kind of monitoring to be faithful....this i dont get.


The line of thinking i believe is that clubbing is an environment where alcohol and single men plus maybe the other girls together might lead to infidelity. Also, i personally find a guy buying my wife a drink disrespectful, dancing too so in an environment like club its all too easy that a drink is bought, some light hearted dancing that might go too far and on and on... 

Besides if a guy goes to pick up a women and she goes shes married ... He wont back up... He'll reply something like " well why isnt ur man with you" and begin making the play ...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## itscomplicatedforsure

Thehusband2 said:


> The line of thinking i believe is that clubbing is an environment where alcohol and single men plus maybe the other girls together might lead to infidelity. Also, i personally find a guy buying my wife a drink disrespectful, dancing too so in an environment like club its all too easy that a drink is bought, some light hearted dancing that might go too far and on and on...
> 
> Besides if a guy goes to pick up a women and she goes shes married ... He wont back up... He'll reply something like " well why isnt ur man with you" and begin making the play ...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So, the thought is that it's all about the environment, the alcohol, other people (ie: men and 'the other girls') influencing their wife to be unfaithful. Wow, just, wow. 
And the thought that a woman can't stand up to a guy coming on to her? Only if she doesn't want to, and if she doesn't, it wouldn't have to happen in a bar. Having trust in your spouse shouldn't stop at the door to a club. And if you can't trust her for a girl's night out, why trust her anywhere?


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## JustSomeGuyWho

itscomplicatedforsure said:


> So, the thought is that it's all about the environment, the alcohol, other people (ie: men and 'the other girls') influencing their wife to be unfaithful. Wow, just, wow.
> And the thought that a woman can't stand up to a guy coming on to her? Only if she doesn't want to, and if she doesn't, it wouldn't have to happen in a bar. Having trust in your spouse shouldn't stop at the door to a club. And if you can't trust her for a girl's night out, why trust her anywhere?


Ok ... well, let me play devil's advocate here. Suppose your husband is invited by his single guy friends to a club? Would that be ok? What if he was invited to a party where you knew hookers would be ... say a Vegas party? You trust him right? If he's going to cheat, he could just as easily cheat with the checkout girl at the grocery store ... so no worries, right? Well, we've spoken about double standards but I guarantee that most wives would definitely NOT be ok with that.


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## Thehusband2

Personally, i dont feel my wife should be in clubs with her girls freinds in a reg basis... Once in a blue moon ok but a regular thing no. If i was the type never want to go then i might understand, but in sociable feel i enjoy going to the bar and so id prefer me to go!

I think it also depends on peoples experiences on here...

My wife used to go more often with a very toxic friend who is a serial cheater, i trusted wife but didnt like the feelinng of that environment my wife liked drinking and without me... I mean why are were we married if she is doing that regularly without me.

Another time a year and a half she went to a resto/bar with that friend and people from that friends worked showed up... This guy bought so many drinks my wife had to call me to help get her home she was so drunk... Can u see how i might not want her going out... A couple drinks... Lose inhibitions... Drink some more .... Wasted by another guy... 

Yes im glad on such occasions she came back to me! BUT just the fact this guy was buying her drinks like that crosses the line for me! I told her that and about her friend and she no linger does that!

So its not just wow oh wow people have their reasons!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter

itscomplicatedforsure said:


> Having trust in your spouse shouldn't stop at the door to a club. And if you can't trust her for a girl's night out, why trust her anywhere?


And 1/3 of men learn the hard way their wives CANT be trusted.

ITs an odds thing.

BTW same goes for boys nites out.


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## inarut

weightlifter said:


> And 1/3 of men learn the hard way their wives CANT be trusted.
> 
> ITs an odds thing.
> 
> BTW same goes for boys nites out.


. 

absolutely... same for boys night.

i am more of the mind that if my partner is going to hang himself, i will give him the rope to do it. thats how they show you who/what they are. i would rather know sooner than later....but thats just me. i know there isnt agreement here.


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## Thehusband2

Or u may not know or ever find out
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thehusband2

For me it wasnt even so much cheating as the disrespect of having some playboy wanna be chat up my wife while im at home with kids! Or buying drinks ... screw that! Also this friend was known so what u think people thought of my wife at 3am ... Embarrasing !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## inarut

Thehusband2 said:


> Or u may not know or ever find out
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yes, thats the scary part. but i am not dumb, ive been around the block. i am aware and i dont trust easily. so what do you do?

i do have boundaries and dealbreakers but if that has to entail all these can/cant do's...which i dont appreciate either when directed at me, whats the point? i wont be disrespected or treated poorly but...and i hate to use the word controlling but it can become too controlling.


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## Thehusband2

For us, and we have so many other issues its not funny, but for us this is not an issue as we goo out togther and even if i sometimes dont feel like it i go to bar or have party at home that way she never feels like her girls are the only sources of bars and alcohol! 

Thats one boundary ive managed to put in place now for the others :|
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## inarut

inarut said:


> yes, thats the scary part. but i am not dumb, ive been around the block.i'm not a fool. i am aware and i dont trust easily. so what do you do?
> 
> i do have boundaries and dealbreakers but if that has to entail all these can/cant do's...which i dont appreciate either when directed at me, whats the point? i wont be disrespected or treated poorly but...and i hate to use the word controlling but it can become too controlling.


to trust and feel safe is of utmost importance but in reality its an illusion. you cant control what other people do. you never know what the future will bring. the only real trust you can have is in your own ability to deal with whatever comes your way...imo


by the way, i know a guy who cheated on is wife with the check out girl at the grocery store.


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## Thehusband2

Yea thats all true! But i thiknits also about chances! And certain wnvironments may tip things out of your favor and this clubing thing is an example of that ....
Of course if someone is intennt or is ambivalent then yes an wasy opportunity like checkout girl can happen ... Nothing can b done about that! Sad!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## itscomplicatedforsure

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Ok ... well, let me play devil's advocate here. Suppose your husband is invited by his single guy friends to a club? Would that be ok? What if he was invited to a party where you knew hookers would be ... say a Vegas party? You trust him right? If he's going to cheat, he could just as easily cheat with the checkout girl at the grocery store ... so no worries, right? Well, we've spoken about double standards but I guarantee that most wives would definitely NOT be ok with that.


I guess the real issue to me is trust and love. I want to be with someone that I can trust and that can trust me. And someone that I love and that I know loves me back, and we want to be with each other. I do not want to be treated like a child, nor do I want to have to babysit my SO and tell them what they can or can't do. Who wants to live like that? If I am secure with the relationship and my trust in my man, that hooker in the same room with him doesn't concern me. If I have to worry about what he's doing anywhere, then we have much bigger issues than his having a guys night out. 

This also isn't about living as though you are single, which entails a whole lot more than just going to a bar. It's about an occasional girls or guys night out.


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## NextTimeAround

We all want to be with someone we can trust. But I want to be with someone who is trustworthy and therefore behaves in a trustworthy way. I shouldn't have to have my ability to trust stretched so that my partner can put behave in dodgy ways that look disrespectful and worse puts himself in harm's way.


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## VeryHurt

I give up.....what's is a GNO ? Thank you. :scratchhead:


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## committed4ever

VeryHurt said:


> I give up.....what's is a GNO ? Thank you. :scratchhead:


Girl 's night out


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## Caribbean Man

inarut said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> i am more of the mind that if my partner is going to hang himself, i will give him the rope to do it. thats how they show you who/what they are. i would rather know sooner than later....but thats just me. i know there isnt agreement here.


Sorry,
But I am of the view that I'm supposed to cover my wife's back,and she she covers mine. I will not give her enough or any rope, as a matter of fact,
" _to hang herself_."

Whenever a relationship has that type of dynamic , it is no longer romantic love, but passive aggressive. That is where issues of manipulation and " control " begin to arise.

Many times before , she has covered my back in situations where I was'nt aware of danger.
She is my partner, not my competitor

But if that works for you , then I can understand why.


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## NextTimeAround

inarut said:


> to trust and feel safe is of utmost importance but in reality its an illusion. you cant control what other people do. you never know what the future will bring. the only real trust you can have is in your own ability to deal with whatever comes your way...imo
> 
> 
> *by the way, i know a guy who cheated on is wife with the check out girl at the grocery store*.



He probably used BNOs as an excuse to leave the house alone to meet up with the check out girl.


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## NextTimeAround

inarut said:


> .
> 
> absolutely... same for boys night.
> 
> i am more of the mind that if my partner is going to hang himself, i will give him the rope to do it. thats how they show you who/what they are.* i would rather know sooner than later...*.but thats just me. i know there isnt agreement here.


If you had a partner who chafed and balked at the standards and intermediate boundaries that you expect from someone committed to you, you know sooner rather than later that this person is not right for you. ......... even sooner than you would if they are having an affair with someone.


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## weightlifter

Sheesh it takes me so long sometimes

Go to city-data.com put in your town. There is a crime rate index. The US average is 319.
I live in a town where the rate is 40. Yes really 40. 
Camden NJ is crime rate is 1140
I can be mugged in either place but my bet is the odds are MUCH higher in Camden. Thus I dont go there.

Dance clubs and bars have a much higher chance of getting into bad situations. They are the high crime rate areas for those in committed relationships.

Never mind, ANYONES partner dancing with a stranger, getting drinks from them, or external validation is exceedingly disrespectful to that partner. D is easy. Hell once you even file D I consider you are free and single, go ahead dance, drink, hook up with whoever the heck you want.

(Last part NOT aimed at anyone in particular. Let me be clear)


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## Faithful Wife

Why can't we all go out to dance clubs WITH our spouses, bump and grind on them in dark corners and make out all night, then go home at 3:00 am together and have a roll in the hay? Solves everything.


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## Thehusband2

Faithful Wife said:


> Why can't we all go out to dance clubs WITH our spouses, bump and grind on them in dark corners and make out all night, then go home at 3:00 am together and have a roll in the hay? Solves everything.


EXACTLY! thats i tell my wife! Especially when other married friends of hers wAnt to do gno w/o husbands. I just dont get it! I like dancing i like buying drinks whats the problem! 

My guess is other spouses dont??!! But if feel for the odd occasion, they should!

Anyway in my situation my wife will go to salsa cruise for girlfriends bday... This ends at 11and i will def. make sure shes not going clubbing afterwards if thats what other girls will b doing orrr i could join em
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK

OP. Try to ignore all of this back and forth. What I have found is that there is a direct correlation between a wife's behavior before and after the GNO and what goes on during. If there is a GNO advocate who is SINCERE in their defense of partying at meat markets, they talk about how there is open communication before, during and after the night out. 

They talk openly about where they are going, what they do there and what went on. They understand that although they like to just dance, they are doing so in an environment where all men and most women go to hook up with the opposite sex. That atmosphere is fueled by alcohol and a sexually charged atmosphere. They understand that anything besides 100% transparency and openness could make their partner extremely uncomfortable and will do anything to ease the concerns of that partner. INARUT falls into this category, and although I admire her sticking up for her principles, I do not understand why she doesn't admit to the other side of her argument. In my opinion, the more likely scenario. 

On the other side are the women who are less open about what they do and where they go. They don't talk about all of the men they meet and party with. They don't tell you where they go afterwards. Are very secretive about these nights out. Most of what the husbands find out, they do so by accident. They may even ridicule their men for their concern and call them controlling. And in NO WAY are they invited to these events. These are the wives that husbands need to be concerned about.

YOU need to decide where YOUR wife fits along this communication spectrum and decide for YOURSELF what is best for YOUR marriage.

Quite frankly, I would be hesitant to take advice from anyone that refuses to admit to ANYTHING that goes against their thought process. And any GNO advocate that makes their argument but refuses to say ANYTHING negative about what can and DOES happen there is a...liar is all I can come up with. Sorry INARUT. Nothing personal intended but you are being less than truthful in order to advance your cause.


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## Thehusband2

Agreed! Well written!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

itscomplicatedforsure said:


> So, the thought is that it's all about the environment, the alcohol, other people (ie: men and 'the other girls') influencing their wife to be unfaithful. Wow, just, wow.
> And the thought that a woman can't stand up to a guy coming on to her? Only if she doesn't want to, and if she doesn't, it wouldn't have to happen in a bar. Having trust in your spouse shouldn't stop at the door to a club. And if you can't trust her for a girl's night out, why trust her anywhere?


The way a faithful wife stands up and protects her marriage is by not putting herself out there to begin with.

That fact she has to keep telling the men no should be a clue that she should not be in a hookup place.

Duh!?

GNOs are great. If they involve men then it really is not a GNO. It is out prowling for attention and playing single.


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## Caribbean Man

Faithful Wife said:


> *Why can't we all go out to dance clubs WITH our spouses, bump and grind on them in dark corners and make out all night, then go home at 3:00 am together and have a roll in the hay?* Solves everything.


:iagree:

My wife don't like the club environment. She never did, but I used to like it.
Anytime I'm feeling for that type of environment , and I want company, she dresses in something tight or short, we go to a sports bar and shoot pool, drink," hit " on each other, rub on each other especially when its crowded and still enjoy ourselves


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## Entropy3000

Faithful Wife said:


> Why can't we all go out to dance clubs WITH our spouses, bump and grind on them in dark corners and make out all night, then go home at 3:00 am together and have a roll in the hay? Solves everything.


:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## PHTlump

itscomplicatedforsure said:


> I do not want to be treated like a child, nor do I want to have to babysit my SO and tell them what they can or can't do. Who wants to live like that?


What is at issue for me is recognizing the fact that environment impacts decisions. That's why I don't want my kids hanging around with drug dealers or delinquents. It's not that I don't think my kids are good, I just know that they can be influenced.

Statistics say that most married people will cheat on their spouses. And most of those stories of infidelity will involve drinking and no supervision. There are very few people who got jumped in church and couldn't say no. The odds of infidelity go way up at 3AM, drunk, without one's spouse, in a bar filled with horny people.

I trust my wife. But I don't think that she's morally infallible. If she's put in a position where she can easily make the wrong decision, she might just do it. Same goes for me. I'm not ever out partying with other women.


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## inarut

inarut said:


> Not all clubs close at 2am...depends where you live. Not all women who like to go dancing with a group of girlfriends now and then are going to or looking to get laid. Nor are all women looking for attention or validation from other men on these GNO making them vulnerable to affairs. There are women who have self control and common sense. I've read enough on here to know that there are women who are not like this but they are not the standard, "typical" woman. Lumping all women in one basket and labeling this particular activity as some sort of gateway to an open marriage or an intent to cheat or the best one ...women just cant even trust themselves or be trusted in such a situation is nonsense.
> 
> If your relationship is having problems or distanced, I would worry. If it becomes excessive...I would worry. If she doesnt enjoy or seek your company above others... basically prioritize your time together (which doesnt mean she doesnt value individual time)...worry. Otherwise trust until you have a reason not to. Clubbing on occasion alone is not a reason to doubt faithfulness.
> 
> Many guys dont like dancing but when they get together a bar will typically be a place they end up at some point. If your looking to get laid a man can do so just as easily at a bar. There are people there looking to pick up as well. So, if a husband goes to a bar with a bunch of his friends should it automatically be assumed he is looking to get laid? Because it is a place where he might be hit on. Should that be a reason he shouldnt be allowed to go? A person can be hit on anywhere and you know what...if theyre going to cheat they are going to cheat and there isnt anything you can do about it aside from working on being the best partner and having the best relationship that you can. You cant wrap your partner in a bubble so you can feel a false sense of security. If I have to keep my partner on a leash in order for him to stay faithful then I dont want him. Some boundaries are appropriate...some are not.


*Mrk...*this is just one quote that pretty much reflects my point of view...albeit, not a popular one. Where am I denying or refusing to say anything negative about what sometimes can/does happen? Where am I being untruthful?

*Caribbean Man*....I will always have my partners back and hope he will always have mine. I wont be with a man I dont feel is trustworthy but * I will hold him accountable and expect him to make the right decisions and conduct himself appropriately no matter what environment he is in or who he is with when it comes to being loyal and faithful to me.* If he is so easily influenced or if we are having problems and he chooses to stray rather than do something about it, if he needs me to hold his hand in order to do the right thing then he doesnt really value me or us very much and so he is not for me and I am better off without him. How is this passive aggresive? How is control, manipulation, competition arising here?


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## JustSomeGuyWho

PHTlump said:


> What is at issue for me is recognizing the fact that environment impacts decisions. That's why I don't want my kids hanging around with drug dealers or delinquents. It's not that I don't think my kids are good, I just know that they can be influenced.
> 
> Statistics say that most married people will cheat on their spouses. And most of those stories of infidelity will involve drinking and no supervision. There are very few people who got jumped in church and couldn't say no. The odds of infidelity go way up at 3AM, drunk, without one's spouse, in a bar filled with horny people.
> 
> I trust my wife. But I don't think that she's morally infallible. If she's put in a position where she can easily make the wrong decision, she might just do it. Same goes for me. I'm not ever out partying with other women.


I agree with this, especially the point about children. Do I trust my children? Yes. Do I trust them to always make the right choice? No. They can be influenced by the people around them.

That is true for adults too. Surround yourself with people you admire and want to be like and you have a good chance of being positively influenced. Surround yourself with people who are negative influences and guess what? 

I have never murdered anybody. I can sit here right now and tell you I don't think I am capable of murdering anybody. You can trust that I am not a dangerous person. Truth is ... I don't know that. Under the right circumstances, I very well may be capable of it. What would I do if I found out somebody molested one of my daughters ... I think I would do the right thing and let the justice system handle it ... but I don't know that and I hope I'm never put to the test.

I am not a cheater ... I don't think I would cheat ... but I don't hold sorority parties at my house where I am the only male invited.


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## inarut

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I agree with this, especially the point about children. Do I trust my children? Yes. Do I trust them to always make the right choice? No. They can be influenced by the people around them.
> 
> That is true for adults too. Surround yourself with people you admire and want to be like and you have a good chance of being positively influenced. Surround yourself with people who are negative influences and guess what?
> 
> I have never murdered anybody. I can sit here right now and tell you I don't think I am capable of murdering anybody. You can trust that I am not a dangerous person. Truth is ... I don't know that. Under the right circumstances, I very well may be capable of it. What would I do if I found out somebody molested one of my daughters ... I think I would do the right thing and let the justice system handle it ... but I don't know that and I hope I'm never put to the test.
> 
> I am not a cheater ... I don't think I would cheat ... but I don't hold sorority parties at my house where I am the only male invited.


There is a huge mental, emotional difference between an adult and a child...hopefully. And now I will throw out the word weak. If you are with a weak minded individual who doesnt really know who they are or are not established within themselves, someone who is not self validated they will be easily influenced. but we are talking about so called adults in committed relationships. Choose wisely! And for gods sake...we are talking about typical social situations not child molestation and murder....


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## MrK

Posted today in another thread. There was also a DJ that used to make similar posts in GNO threads.



Tbnez said:


> As a club bartender for about a decade, I know what goes on in the club. I could write a book about what I have seen women do in the club and half of them had wedding rings on....


It's odd that I've never see a guy from the produce section of a supermarket make a post even close to that.


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## inarut

MrK said:


> Posted today in another thread. There was also a DJ that used to make similar posts in GNO threads.
> 
> 
> 
> It's odd that I've never see a guy from the produce section of a supermarket make a post even close to that.


call me a liar then dismiss my response....ok....


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## MrK

inarut said:


> call me a liar then dismiss my response....ok....


Look. I have no interest in continuing communication with you. You have your opinion and I have mine. Done.

But as long as you mention it, I did indeed miss where you said "clubbing is fine, but...".

Saying "clubbing is fine, get over it" is a lot different than saying "clubbing is fine, but..." For someone into the scene, not stating the OBVIOUS dangers is lying by omission.

I can't keep you from responding to this post, but I'm done with discussing this issue with you. I don;t mean disrespect, but I'm through.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

inarut said:


> There is a huge mental, emotional difference between an adult and a child...hopefully. And now I will throw out the word weak. If you are with a weak minded individual who doesnt really know who they are or are not established within themselves, someone who is not self validated they will be easily influenced. but we are talking about so called adults in committed relationships. Choose wisely! And for gods sake...we are talking about typical social situations not child molestation and murder....


The point here is that a large percentage of people who have had affairs did not intend to have affairs. They did not set out to do it and they believed their wedding vows when they made them. They would have told you there is no way they would ever have an affair ... and yet they did. People respected in their community, teachers, people of religion ... presidents. Right time, right place, right circumstance.

Don't kid yourself, adults are easily influenced. Perhaps not as easily as children but you don't have to go any further than psych 101 to know that even adults can be influenced by the people around them to believe even those most ludicrous things. Grown sober men can be convinced that something that is green is actually blue. We are influenced by everything and everybody around us and many times in an unhealthy way. That's why toxic friends are unhealthy no matter how grounded you are. 

I have no problem with GNO. My wife goes every Friday night and I trust her. When she was younger, she did go to clubs every once in a while ... and I trusted her. If she had made a habit of going to clubs then I would have been very concerned no matter how adamant she was that she would remain faithful.


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## inarut

MrK said:


> Look. I have no interest in continuing communication with you. You have your opinion and I have mine. Done.
> 
> But as long as you mention it, I did indeed miss where you said "clubbing is fine, but...".
> 
> Saying "clubbing is fine, get over it" is a lot different than saying "clubbing is fine, but..." For someone into the scene, not stating the OBVIOUS dangers is lying by omission.
> 
> I can't keep you from responding to this post, but I'm done with discussing this issue with you. I don;t mean disrespect, but I'm through.


wow...

that actually was the first direct communication i had with you and this will be the last. you dont need to stop me from posting here. i've said my peace...much to your dismay and detriment to all...no disrespect.
carry on...


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## NextTimeAround

MrK said:


> Posted today in another thread. There was also a DJ that used to make similar posts in GNO threads.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Tbnez
> As a club bartender for about a decade, I know what goes on in the club. I could write a book about what I have seen women do in the club and half of them had wedding rings on....
> 
> 
> 
> It's odd that I've never see a guy from the produce section of a supermarket make a post even close to that.
Click to expand...


Umm, yeah, but as I said before, you could get the phone number from the chick in the produce section and then tell your wife you're going to a BNO to be able to see this new woman.


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## Caribbean Man

inarut said:


> There is a huge mental, emotional difference between an adult and a child...hopefully. And now I will throw out the word weak.* If you are with a weak minded individual who doesnt really know who they are or are not established within themselves, someone who is not self validated they will be easily influenced. but we are talking about so called adults in committed relationships*. Choose wisely! And for gods sake...we are talking about typical social situations not child molestation and murder....


How many adults do you know who are not weak in one area or another , or who are impervious to external influences / stimuli ?

Our environment and people can and does influence us .

You are basing your argument on the false assumption that people are perfect and we live in a perfect world.
But if we lived in such a world and everyone did what was right , then the issue of GNO's and BNO's in the clubbing environment cannot arise, because the environment in the clubs would be good for marriages , temptation would cease to exist , people would wouldn't get drunk , and the fact that someone was married would be a deterrent and predators wouldn't exist.

The society you speak of is called Utopia .
In utopian societies,
There are no divorces because people marry the right partner , husbands don't cheat, because they can only be sexually aroused by their wives , spouses don't get angry because there are no misunderstandings , everyone has a well paying job , people enjoy paying their taxes because taxes are low , politicians are incorruptible and don't steal.

It is an ideal, conceived by a philosopher called Plato , more than one thousand years ago, consisting of actualized citizenry , benign oligarchs ,philosopher kings and so forth.
But reality is much, much different.
After all ,
We are only _human._


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## NextTimeAround

I do find it interesting how some people --not just here but in other places IRL and in cyberspace-- assume that everything will be fine if you choose the right person. but then they never give advice as to what to look out for. 

and also, this does not account for major changes that the couple will experience over the years. What should we do? Divorce our partner before there's a problem?......


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## Thehusband2

My wife uses the same arguments about clubbing:

1. if i wanted to cheat I could meet someone everyday, she is attractive so I am sure men hit on her daily especially summer as she like to wear shorts, dresses etc...

2. she respects herself and thus cheating would go against who she is...

3. it is MY problem that i have an insecurity about clubs

etc.....

but my counter is... :
1. the occasions where she was out and came home in cab at 1130 very drunk because although she respects herself most she took drinks from some hotshot and got wasted and phoned me...

2. the time some idiot was pm'ing her on facebook apparently she was oblivious to him hitting on her until HE flat out said that he is attracted...she did for the record shut that down and i followed up with some words to this idiot....

3. a few more examples exist too....

so yeah, people are influenced easily...

oh, big one, a few weeks ago we were out and passed by a resto our friend works in. tequila shots time he says... i resisted because it was exam period so i had one...my wife however, although she has commited to drinking 1-2 drinks only, when he basically peer pressured us (i mean like buying the round and bringing it to us) she crumbled and ended up have 4 shots... in 30 minutes getting really drunk

i was strong enough to politly drink the first and refuse the 2,3,4th ... hahaha i felt like the rude one for not drinking

and she could not hold up under that social pressure...and she is/ or likes to think of herself as extremely strong minded!!!

how can we argue against social influence playing a strong role in this example??


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## PHTlump

inarut said:


> There is a huge mental, emotional difference between an adult and a child...hopefully. And now I will throw out the word weak. If you are with a weak minded individual who doesnt really know who they are or are not established within themselves, someone who is not self validated they will be easily influenced. but we are talking about so called adults in committed relationships. Choose wisely! And for gods sake...we are talking about typical social situations not child molestation and murder....


There is a difference between adults and children. But it isn't as large as you think. Nobody hits the age of 21, or 30, or 40 and becomes an entirely different person. Weakness exists in children and it also exists in adults, although to a lesser degree.

Thousands of companies spend hundreds of billions of dollars every year trying to influence adults through advertising. Now, you wouldn't say that the money is being wasted because adults are iron-willed and impervious to influence, would you? Of course not.

And you don't even have to get that abstract. Studies have shown a correlation between divorce rates and your peer group. Someone with a divorced sibling is 22% more likely to divorce. Someone with a divorced friend is 147% more likely to divorce. A divorced coworker can increase the likelihood of divorce by 55%.

I really don't buy the belief that behavior is predestined and all cheaters, if denied the opportunity to cheat in a singles club, will simply go to the library, or church, and cheat there.

Yes, people should choose spouses wisely. And some people are less likely to cheat than others. However, to anyone who believes that they, or their spouse, are too morally perfect to ever cheat, I say that pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.


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## inarut

I'm really trying not to post here but I do not claim to be a superior or perfect person Its not about pride, being perfect, morally superior or any kind of superiority for that matter. 

As for behavior being predestined.....no, people make choices. Cheating is a choice not an accident.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

If all of you are actually right about needing a will of iron to stay faithful I may as well throw in the towel and forget about love, relationships, marriage and just close myself off and not let myself care too much about any man, force myself to like casual sex and forget the rest.


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