# Living with the STBXW advice?



## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

My first post and the beginnings of my story can be found here

My wife returned home from a work trip that had her away the entire first week after i found out that she is, at the very least having a deep EM with another man. Details are in the other post, but basically when confronted she was surprised and then stated she hadnt been happy in a long time ("maybe since the spring") and wanted a D. She says she isnt communicating with OM now, but i dont see how that is possible giving what they were saying to each other. 

My question is now that we will have to be together for the next few weeks (while i get things together to move, since we JUST moved to follow her career {mine allows me to live anywhere}), how do I treat her? 

She is fairly nice to me, if a bit awkward at times when she is obviously thinking about the situation. She seems overly interested in where I'm moving to (also asked what i'm going to do for T-giving). Not sure if she is wanting to know when and how far away I'll move (like she is afraid I'll stay in town) or if she secretly wants me to stay close. 

So confused as to what to do now! The 180 was working so well while she was gone. Please help!


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## ConfusedInMichigan (Oct 27, 2012)

Im not sure if you want her back someday, someway-but I can tell you no matter what you are planning on doing the less you tell her the better. The moment they start getting answers, they become bolder and bolder.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks confused. Your name is particularly apt at the moment. 

I'd give anythign for a crystal ball showing the future right now.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Rawr ... she is out (i just got back from a 20m bike ride) and calls to ask what I'm doing for lunch. WTH?

Told her I was finishing up some leftover chicken and she mention what she would eat when she got home. Then it was the typical "ok, see you soon" type thing. 

WTH is going on? I need a manual.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Good luck. Speaking from experience its tough living with the Stbxw. In my case she is seeing someone else and doesn't really show any feelings for the loss of our marriage. I'm hurting so bad over this and she treats me like nothings really changed. Which makes things worse. 

I gave up trying to win her back and basically did the 180 just to not give her the benefit of seeing me suffer over this. 

Basically go about your business, keep busy. Don't really interact with her, but don't be ugly or cold to her. Show her you are content to move on and are happy.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

You're in the same situation as I'm .
Only #15 is difficult when you still live together , but the rest is very useful . Third day into it and I love it.
She is bugging me all today and she is extremely nice and caring .


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

NoWhere - Like yours, my STBWX was acting very close to normal for the first two days (when i posted the above). I recently caught her in a lie about the OM and she has significantly withdrawn and escalated her recent dislike of me. 

Big - Mine was like that. Now it has swung back the other direction. Would someone please let me off the roller-coaster?

She went "rings-off" today. Funny that that should hurt after everything else ... but every little thing that makes this more of a reality stings a little. 

I know you shouldnt wish your life away, but right now I'd give just about anything for a button to fast forward to a year or so from now.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> I know you shouldnt wish your life away, but right now I'd give just about anything for a button to fast forward to a year or so from now.


 You just need to find something that will provide the 1.2 gigawatts of power to the flux capacitor.  Come pick me up when you find it!


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> You just need to find something that will provide the 1.2 gigawatts of power to the flux capacitor.  Come pick me up when you find it!


Me to... 








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

stay strong Lost and post here 

one trouble I have with 180 is telling her everything


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Me too Big ... I am WAY too open with her. I'm just used to being able to tell her everything and am finding that a VERY hard habit to break.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

I think that is a problem we all have. You are so use to discussing things or even saying little things like inside jokes and stuff its hard to stop yourself from doing it.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> I think that is a problem we all have. You are so use to discussing things or even saying little things like inside jokes and stuff its hard to stop yourself from doing it.


Indeed. One that I am working on ... and one that she is making easier by continuing to lie, and now to be cold to me. 

I miss my wife, but this person isn't her. Sometime my eyes and ears fool me into thinking it is ... but that person was caring and genuine. This person is the opposite. Maybe this is her 180?


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## Broken84 (Oct 30, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> WTH is going on? I need a manual.


Totally understand your frustration. My stbxw has a tendency tomdo that as well. One minute she isnfurious and not talking to me. I try my hardest not to contact her and all of a sudden she is messaging me...its all about mind games.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

@Lost
how you feeling today ?


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I've been better, but thanks for checking Big. 

Honestly, I must be starting to turn a bit of a corner. I'm quickly getting to the point where I'd rather move on. Obviously the person I am sharing an apartment with isnt the woman I loved and I'm ready to move out, if not move on. 

We have stopped interacting much since I caught her in her most recent lie. I jsut dont have much to say to her ... why talk to someone who has a much higher chance of telling a lie than the truth? I've come to terms with the fact that this is VERY unlikely to be just an EA. She is going back to where he lives this weekend to see "friends" ... I just don't buy it. 

Got some good news yesterday: I have two job opportunities that came about. I have never really leveraged my contacts before and doing so had quick results. Was nice getting a little good news. 

I hate that this all happened, and I know the rollercoaster is going to head back down at some point (probably at some point today), but for now life is slightly better than it was 2 days ago. Of course "better" is nowhere near "good".


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

I'm happy you feel better . It is better then nothing .
Do you really want her or you want your old live/routine ? Ask you self this question.
I'm asking my self the same and more I'm thinking about it , more I lean towards the routine .


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I want the old her. The person I'm seeing every day is nothing like the girl i feel in love with. I'm not sure if she is gone or just in hiding, but that is the person I miss. 

I can't assume she'll ever come back ... and she almost definitely wont with the posOM in the picture. I also refuse to be plan B. 

As predicted the rollercoaster went back down for a bit today. Having to spend time with the stbxw is hard and I am ready to move out and get on with healing.


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## flyfishdoc (Oct 21, 2012)

I put up with the roller coaster **** for 2 weeks...literally one day they hate your guts then the next they want you to take care of them..I finally pushed the nuclear button and exposed the OM to her friends/family...now my STBXW is a consistent *****...I can handle consistency. Make her show her true colors. She sounds like a cake eater..mine was literally eating off my plate 2 days before Armageddon day.. Tellher to go stay with him...the girl you fell in love DIED and doesn't exist anymore, never will


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Unfortunately I will be the one to have to move. Thats not a big deal, it is just going to take a few weeks. I have a new job opportunity (two actually) that would move me a few states away. I'm hoping that comes through quickly. 

I just can't stand the lies and deception anymore. I've quit checking the "facts" and quit trying to catch her in a lie. Its just too damn easy when you know they are lying. 

I will probably never understand how someone could throw away so many years of happiness without a thought or regret in the world; without giving it even an ounce of effort to save it. I know she is just in the honeymoon stage of an affair and that is helping her, but you'd think there would be some remorse. 

I really hope there is someone out there for me who is open (ie will tell you if there are problems) and loyal. Its hard picturing a new life at this point, but i do truly hope one is out there for me... and that I wont have to be alone for a decade before i find it.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Feeling a bit better today, but had a bit of a slip last night (a convo)that ended in a hug. Whoops. 

I am really starting to look forward to moving out. Not because I want to be gone, find it exciting, etc; but because I just hope it will help me move on and be anle to think about other things for the majority of my day. 

Being truly "alone" for the first time since I was 20 will be tough though. Its amazing how much I will have to learn/relearn about how to live life, budget my time, my money, etc. I'm fortunate to make enough that I can afford to do this on my own (minus some money from the STBXW to get me started, since all my money had been going toward CC debt i didnt know about), but I have no idea how people with less means make this work. Its going to be a challenge for me.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Have you exposed the affair?


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Have you exposed the affair?


Probably not enough. A few people know, but most of those people have limited connection to her. I will see someone connected to her old work (where the posOM still works)today. I guess I could tell them. 

Not sure what good it would do. 

Most of "our" friends are her friends. She is a very giving friend to most people and has lots of friends. I'm sure her friends don't have the whole story (or at least not the bit about the affair), but I can't see what them finding out would change
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Yesterday was tough. I travelled (physically) back to a place with all happy memories of her. Set me back a bit I think. 

Doesn't help to know she travelled too - to see the posOM. I didn't get a call or text from her all day and I guess I won't today either. First time ever. I wasn't expecting that to bother me so much. 

I've got to be able to focus on work today but I doubt I will. I get that she doesn't love me anymore, but how can someone do this to someone who loves them and has been a constant companion and friend for more than a decade? How hard would it have been to leave me before replacing me?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Yesterday was tough. I travelled (physically) back to a place with all happy memories of her. Set me back a bit I think.
> 
> Doesn't help to know she travelled too - to see the posOM. I didn't get a call or text from her all day and I guess I won't today either. First time ever. I wasn't expecting that to bother me so much.
> 
> ...


 Another day. 

Had a weird text exchange with her yesterday. Won't go into details, but she was awfully nice at the end. At this point I think that is worse. 

Been seeing some good friends who are all great and supportive. Of course some of their wives are her friends. Outing her affair seems to upset them, but they stay loyal to her. I guess that makes sense: she is a very good friend to people. 

I still want off the emotional rollercoaster and am starting to itch to get moved out. Will prolly ttake a couple more weeks, but I just don't see myself getting considerably better and starting to move on while still constantly being around the woman who looks and sounds like the woman I love. 

I miss that person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> Won't go into details, but she was awfully nice at the end.
> 
> Been seeing some good friends who are all great and supportive. Of course some of their wives are her friends. Outing her affair seems to upset them, but they stay loyal to her. I guess that makes sense: she is a very good friend to people.


I think it is positive she was very nice , however exposing her affair to family and friends I think is a HUGE mistake . She'll think you're trying to screw her reputation and that may make her hate you!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lostinspaces said:


> Probably not enough. A few people know, but most of those people have limited connection to her. I will see someone connected to her old work (where the posOM still works)today. I guess I could tell them.
> 
> Not sure what good it would do.
> 
> ...


It makes it more difficult for them to operate in secret.

It helps to lift the fog - opens their eyes to what they are really doing.

By remaining silent, you make it easy for them - perpetuating her view of you as a doormat.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Ya, i guess it really doesnt matter if it is the right or wrong thing to do. In the end she has no right to privacy in this matter and if she hates me for it, so be it. I'm not the one who took us down this path. 

I need to move on. Its hard but I got some good news today. I've been offered a job 6 hours away. It isa good opportunity and will let me cut ties more completely. I don't plan to tell her until the details are ironed out, but it should happen quick (2 weeks notice) and I have a feeling telling her with be cathartic.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Yesterday turned out to be the first day that actually passed with no contact. She was in a different town with friends and the posOM. I'm a little surprised how much that doesnt hurt (not to say there isnt a little regret there, but not as much as i expected). 

I am actually learning to anticipate her actions at this point. I realized that there was no way she was coming home last night and also that it will be as late as possible today before she gets home. If i think of her like a wild teenager it actually becomes pretty easy to predict what she'll do. Its something of her own 180 i guess. 

Not sure what I should be doing for the next few weeks that we'll live together while the preparations for the new job come through.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> It isa good opportunity and will let me cut ties more completely. I don't plan to tell her until the details are ironed out, but it should happen quick (2 weeks notice) and I have a feeling telling her with be cathartic.



The best will it be, if you get the job and move there without telling her where,why and what . If she wanna know let her chase you .


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Ya, she has been very concerned with where I'm going. Even pointing out that she isnt trying to rush me and that I could stay in town. I don't think that is her wanting me around as much as it is her not wanting to feel guilty for what she's done. 

With our bills so tied together, I'm sure I'll have to tell her where, but I'm sure she was expecting me to be within a few hours.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

She don't want you in town so you can't see what is she doing . From the other side she don't want you to go far away " keep your enemies close so you can see their moves "


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Likely true. The only hard part would be dealing with the lawyer from so far away. I guess I'll have to put down the retainer before leaving.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Yes, make all your arrangements and leave. Then if she wants to talk to you, let her do the 6 hours drive.
Being far away will help you heal faster because you wouldn't see her .


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Very rough being back together in the house. She is nice, but isn't all that interested. She's in her room for hours likely talking to the posOM. I just want my love and my life back, but I know her well enough to know that even if she recognizes this as a mistake on day, she'll never admit it to anyone. She's strong that way. 

Sucks to be rebooting your life after 12 years with someone. I know it will take me a long time to recover fully and that is worse. I wish I regretted those 12 years, but really I just regret that, in the end, they didn't mean anything. Could I have been spending them with someone as faithful to me as I was to them?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I jsut failed miserably at the 180. Yet again I lay my emotions on a platter for her and leave feeling horribly. I dont know why I keep setting myself up for getting hurt. 

She claims I am better at this than her, but she sure knows how to make me miserable. She stealth filed for divorce on Thursday. This is all happening so quick. I'm jealous of the people who split up and get time to deal with it emotionally. I dont get why this has to be rushed. 

I'm miserable. Back to day one in terms of how I feel emotionally. Everything I gained to this point has just been lost. In two or three weeks time I will live in another state and likely never see her again. Our work travel will make that about three days total left together, of which I'm sure we will spend most apart. 

Why does that have to hurt so much?


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Retained the attorney and should be getting paperwork from hers soon. 

*Sigh*

She wants me to sign something that make the divorce go through quicker ... maybe I'm petty or selfish, but I just don't want to make it any easier for her. I'll be suffering through this for a long time and I don't see why i should give her a free pass.


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## NickCampbell (Oct 18, 2010)

lostinspaces said:


> Retained the attorney and should be getting paperwork from hers soon.
> 
> *Sigh*
> 
> She wants me to sign something that make the divorce go through quicker ... maybe I'm petty or selfish, but I just don't want to make it any easier for her. I'll be suffering through this for a long time and I don't see why i should give her a free pass.


I went through the same thing. 

I'm now out of the emotional sadness and living on my own in the house we shared together. 

She has the OM - and I truly feel sorry for him.. 

File the motion to have it quickened (we did that) , and let her move out and find hobbies you enjoy. 

It's going to happen regardless if you're sad or fighting or not. Focus your energy on making you happy..


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

She will use your weakness to beat you over that head and to hate you in the future. Tell her that she is no longer your problem and to stay out of your way.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

You are not giving her a free pass, you are getting the keys to a new life, go somewere Boise ID (Believe it or not) Canada, someplace warm, just do something that you would not have done if this had nothappened. Good luck and God Bless you!


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

It hurts, because you loved her and trusted her with your soul. I really do know your pain but understand this....She does not give one little ship about you anymore, she has the other man now and that is were her head and other body parts are at....so if you want to waste energy on POS woman that would stab you in the back and laugh while walks to the other man's bed, be my guest but she really is not worth it.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Always remember, "its not what knocks us down that matters, it how we get back up that counts"

You will get thru this and the quicker you do this the better off you will be. As I read thru this thread I see every time you interact or engage her you emotionaly go back.

I strongly suggest you maintain your distance.


Sure you have all kinds of questions, so ask them here, there is a script and many here in this forum have gone thru this.

Most likely OM wants her to file and pushed her, maybe he is military or in some other career were infidelity especially adultory is forbiden. Hence the reason her tracks are covered well and she still needs to come home. 

Even in the begining she was sure how the new man was going to pan out but then some kind of commitment was, hence the mood change in her.


Sure these are assumptions, but I feel she is very lucky you haven't exposed this. Again just another reason for the quick devorce.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks guys. I know I should be stronger and, frankly, I'm ashamed at what I'm willing to put up with to have my old life back. 

I'm just not wired to give up without a fight ... but fighting this just hasnt ever seemed to help. I share too much with her. I give her the ammo that I'm sure she will use against me at some point. 

I'm of two minds about moving on/out in a few weeks. On the one hand, I do seem to feel better when I'm not around her. On the other, its been so long since my vision of the future was not "we" that I really don't know what to do with myself. 

Thanks for the continued advice and support. I hope tomorrow is a better day. The stealth filing threw me.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Again the stealth filing is rare, most waywards won't file so they don't lose there plan B if the affair doesn't work out.

So again I believe her filling shows a strong commitment *from* the OM.....

This is a solid sign from her that she is moving on. Granted only like 1 % of affairs work out in real life, but she sound really fogged in.

BTW who is OM?


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Ya, the OM has been a friend for a while who she mentored at work. I knew he liked her but have always trusted my wife ... he isnt the first to like her. 

She swears that there is nothing any more with him, but I dont buy it. I know they talk on the phone and they got together "socially" this past weekend. I've already proven myself to be dumb, but I'm not a complete idiot. I think he has found a sugar momma and he makes her feel good. 

With my luck it works out between them and he has the life I always thought I'd have.


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## NickCampbell (Oct 18, 2010)

It's not "giving up without a fight" - it's getting a hold on your self esteem and saying you're worth more than you're getting. 

She doesn't want to be with you. The OM is worth more than your history together to her. 

There's nothing to fight for.. 

The sooner you realize that, the better. 

I'm in the exact situation as well.. It gets better..


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lostinspaces said:


> Ya, the OM has been a friend for a while who she mentored at work. I knew he liked her but have always trusted my wife ... he isnt the first to like her.
> 
> She swears that there is nothing any more with him, but I dont buy it. I know they talk on the phone and they got together "socially" this past weekend. I've already proven myself to be dumb, but I'm not a complete idiot. I think he has found a sugar momma and he makes her feel good.
> 
> With my luck it works out between them and he has the life I always thought I'd have.


What makes you think she'd be faithful to him?


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I guess I think she is capable of being faithful. I jsut thinnk her not communicating she was unhappy led her to seek happiness elsewhere. She has such a complex about disappointing people that I think she just couldnt bear to tell me when things started going south. 

So rather than let me know when there was still something i could do about it, she hid it until she fell out of love. 

If she ever learns to be open and honest with her significant other, I think she has a decent shot as happiness. She is getting IC now, so maybe she will fix her issues for someone else.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

What comes around comes around ! 

Stay strong and on 180 , so far it does great for me !

Hope everyday you'll feel better and better.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I just feel more and more like I've lost her. I doubt I'm losing her any more than I already had... just coming to terms with it maybe. 

I know I deserve someone who wouldnt do this to me ... especially with no warning. But I do still love her. 

I cant remember the name of the movie where you could have bad memories erased ... but I'd pay a ton for that service right now.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

As usual, mornings are tough. No clue why they are so much worse than any other time of the day for me. Maybe it's the feeling of solitude or maybe it's the break in the routine I've always knew. 

For some reason I have a gnawing feeling the posOM is coming here while I'm out of town over the weekend. She hasn't been truthful about anything else with respect to him, so I guess I just expect the worst from her in that. The thought of him in my home makes me sick. 

I want to find some evidence of their plans to meet while I'm gone, but I guess it doesn't really matter. I just wish it would happen somewhere else. I wish I could convince her to respect what we had for so long enough to at least give me time to be gone.


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## kramber (Oct 30, 2012)

Keep busy. Try to work out or do something healthy and positive. Congrats on your new job opp btw. Sounds like you are on the right path.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks Kramber. Once I get clearance from my doc in a few days I'll be back to the gym. A few days after I found out about the affair I worked out so hard I wound up in the hospital. I've only been allowed cardio since (and damn the cold for making that less fun this last week)


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> For some reason I have a gnawing feeling the posOM is coming here while I'm out of town over the weekend. She hasn't been truthful about anything else with respect to him, so I guess I just expect the worst from her in that. The thought of him in my home makes me sick.
> 
> I want to find some evidence of their plans to meet while I'm gone, but I guess it doesn't really matter. I just wish it would happen somewhere else. I wish I could convince her to respect what we had for so long enough to at least give me time to be gone.


Even if you put hidden camera and cote them won't change much ! And you'll feel worst !

Stay focused on you and try your best !


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

True. At this point I just want honesty, but i know i wont get it and likely could never tell if what I am hearing is true or not. 

It is another bummer of a day. I'm having a hell of a time concentrating on work and I really need to focus. Its not going well. I have IC later this afternoon and am looking forward to getting some insight into myself and how I let this happen.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Good luck with the IC. Tell us how it was !

Don't ask questions about the OM. In my case it does wonders . 180 works for me big time .
I joined an Ghost Haunting group and innocently let her see the info about it. She is IMing me all day with questions about it 

Do something like this and you'll see


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Ya, I am apparently horrible at the 180. I imagine I'll get better at it after I am able to move out. For now I become a babbling idiot whenever she starts acting like the wife i knew. 

When I get back from my trip this week I'll look into doing something for myself again.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

You can talk to her , it doesn't hurt but " talk and don't say much" , bla bla only.
Be nice , happy, enthusiastic and mysterious. 
Again, in my case does wonders .

Do something unusual , mysterious ( like ghost hunters , treasure hunters or whatever ) . This is killing her . You know from 180 - don't follow your spouse around the house - she is following me right now 

Show her what is she going to divorce !


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I definitely talk too much ... But that has been a problem since kindergarten 

Yesterday/this morning was big for me. First, I had IC ... He told me much of what I got here: that I'm lacking the anger that I have a right to after being cheated on (physical or not). That I have trouble with healthy boundaries with her at this point because I think they would be "mean". I shouldn't let her get the support from me (emotional) when I am getting in return. That I probably didn't show how I felt about her enough and that all of our work travel likely led to a drop in bonding as we didn't do anything to keep it up.

This is all true and god knows I have my failings, but she never talked to me once about being unhappy... And there is no excuse for an affair. 

I got some good news that is definitely what I need right now: my new job came through and it will mean good things for me. Hopefully I'll be moving soon.


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## loveisforever (Jun 21, 2012)

Move out ASAP and forget your wife. Your wife acted as a dirt bag and a sick lady. You are too nice to them to the point that you need IC to figure out why are you so sticky.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Major fail on the 180 and not being so "sticky" (I like that) tonight. I just don't know if I'm capable of being standoffish and I'm definitely not good at being mean or unavailable. I guess I'm just lonely already. I really haven't been alone in my life and I've had her for more than a decade. With all of our travel I'll only be in the sAme house with her at the same time for 3 or 4 more days. I'm gone for the next 5 days and she is gone most of the rest of the month. I'm sure that is a good thing as much as a bad thing, but it doesn't feel like that at this moment.

I guess I should have stayed closer to my own friends ... I had become dependent on her and her friends I guess. Live and learn but I'm not looking forward to all of the "starting over" I'm doing. 

Thank for listening and the support guys.


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## tonynw (Nov 7, 2012)

you deserve better bro. run a mile

tony from london


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I'll be running several hundred miles ... But it still feels like giving up. I'm just not good at admitting defeat I guess, and to me marriage meant forever (no divorce in my family). 

I'll always regret that she never talked to me and let me have a chance to work on our marriage. I had my failings but what she told me was pretty much all small stuff that added up and soured her love for me. These were thing I easily could have worked on/fixed. 

She just throws the "you can't change someone" thing out there, Which is bs. Maybe she couldn't make me change, but if she had just once talked to me about it I could have tried. I feel like I deserved the right to try and fail. It would have been so much easier if I had known that my marriage had problems, instead of being blindsided by a D. 

I hope one day I'll get another shot at a family. At the very least I know things about myself now that my wife didn't like, and I know that a wife not telling you she is unhappy doesn't mean she is happy. Maybe I'll do better, I'm just worried I'll never trust someone enough to go through this again.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Getting ready to go out of country for work over the weekend so I'll have no contact for 4 days or so. That should be good I guess, but I'm not feeling it this morning. As usual, mornings are the worst for me. 

I hate that I wish someone who would do his to me would come back. What does that say about my self esteem? 

I know I have to mentally start moving on, but part of me keeps wishing for a time machine so I could go back to being happy. 

I hope everyone has a good weekend. I'll check back in next week.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

So, I'm back from my trip and I had a great time. Definitely not bad for a work trip. 

I met someone on the trip, and while she is too young for me and doesn't live near me, it was just good to know that I might be desirable to the opposite sex. It's been more than a decade since I was last "out there" and, frankly I'm and scared to death of dating and going through all of that again. Being around this new woman, even just for a few days took my mind off thing and made me smile. 

I know I'm nowhere near ready to move on, but am greateful for the distraction. 

Getting home was tough. I discovered the STBXW had made a trip back to see her boyfriend (she claims to see friends, which I'd guess is half true). This, of course, upset me as she has been claiming its over between them (but they remain "friends"). I hate that things are so dysfunctional when we are around each other, but to be fair i think that is more me discovering her lies/deceptions than anything. 

Part of me is looking forward to moving out so I can move on and the other part is sad that (with our travel) I will likely only see her two more days. It's hard to give upon a friend/wife after so long and know you will likely never see them again.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Blah, just blah.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> I met someone on the trip, and while she is too young for me and doesn't live near me, it was just good to know that I might be desirable to the opposite sex. It's been more than a decade since I was last "out there" and, frankly I'm and scared to death of dating and going through all of that again. Being around this new woman, even just for a few days took my mind off thing and made me smile.


Obviously :smthumbup:

I have the same and feel great , even I have a girl inviting me to go out with her and that makes me feel " in the sky " .
Remember , we're " new guys on the market " and our chances are huge . That girl told me - I'm 2 years on the market and never got a chance to catch a guy like you, if someone like you came out hes taking within a week  and that made me feel even better and realizing there are gals over there that will appreciate me more and will be happy with me .

Keep in mind , the best way to heal from the situation is a GF and nothing else . She'll take your attention and you'll start thinking " why didn't I open my eyes earlier " 

Glad you had a great trip !


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## Why Not Be Happy? (Apr 16, 2010)

Congrats on the new job. Good luck with the move. You can do this and you will find something better.
I know you love her but your STBXW is untruthful and a cheater and her POSOM got involved with a married woman-----The Karma bus is waiting to bring bad stuff their way!


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## Why Not Be Happy? (Apr 16, 2010)

And keep working out too-----it'll help keep you going. Find a new gym in your new town and make it a point to meet some new people!


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Why Not Be Happy? said:


> I know you love her but your STBXW is untruthful and a cheater and her POSOM got involved with a married woman-----The Karma bus is waiting to bring bad stuff their way!


Odds are against them anyways . Every guy that dates ( or even flirts with the intention to catch ) married woman is a lusa , needy and insecure . And if she is needy ( and it looks alike she is ) , and that comes hand in hand with insecurity then we all know how will this end up .


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

I have the same problem. Wife wants divorce, has EA with OM and wants to be all buddy buddy. It is hard....i am very much in the anger phase, and simply want her out. She is trapped in the house due to no job and i cant pay her way. I avoid her at all cost, but its hard when you have kids at home and they dont know about the impending divorce and her moving out. I will jump for joy when she is out.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> Wife wants divorce, has EA with OM and wants to be all buddy buddy.


Welcome on the Plan B team !


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Oh yeah, im there. I learned all about that when she wanted a separation. I forced her hand..marriage or divorce...so we are divorcing.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Paperwork signed and returned last night. They will call my references today (a formality) and I should be able to give to give 2 weeks tomorrow. 

The wife leaves today for a work trip followed by vacation and there is a good chance, if I see her at all it will be a day or two as I move out two weeks from now. 

This is getting very "real" now and I know I'll miss her. Such a sad situation that I never saw coming or thought I'd find myself in. How does one come to terms with never seeing ones best friend again after more than a decade?

I see a tough road ahead these next few months...


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> I see a tough road ahead these next few months...


More you say it, more you believe in it and you'll feel worst ! Please do you self a favor and don't say it or write it !


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Yeah, I dont look at her or talk to her. For the most part, my STBXW IS gone. Heck, since she had the EA, I dont feel like i know her anymore anyway. Seems like I am living with a different person. I miss who she used to be, not who she is now. It will be a relief when she moves out...I will be able to relax in my house again.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Well, she's off on her trip. No goodbyes or anything. Sad that it could come to this with someone you thought you'd spend your life with. No regret, no remorse, just gone.

I can't wait until I move on. I'd pay through the nose for an emotional fast forward button.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

oh im with you. This has been a SHOCK to me too. Her behaviour is COMPLETELY out of personality...for who i USED to know. My STBXW simply doenst care....about me, the kids, the house, her future...nothing. She is dreaming of moving to a one bedroom apt. and eating soup....what?!?!? I get zero emotion from her aobut anything...so i quit trying.

Its all part of the grieving process. Shock at first, then sorrow, then anger (where i am), then acceptance of the future. Like everyone says, you have to put it behind you. I dont look at her picture, dont think about her. I took down all the family photos and our wedding invite that we had framed. It is the sad past now, and reminds me of it all.

Ok, so now, she talks to me, and I dont even hear her....she thinks im ignoring her...no...i REALLY dont hear you...i block you out.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

So for the "bright side" note of the day, I think I've currently moved into the depression stage of dealing with grief. I'm sure ill flip back between them some more but I am definitely accepting of the inevitability of all of this and I'm definitely not bargaining as I know it does me no good (unless talking to God counts ... But even there it tend to be of the"helps me find happiness" and not the "make her understand" type. )

I seem to have pretty much skipped anger though, but that shouldn't be surprising as both my close friends and IC say I have a problem in that anger makes me feel guilty so I avoid it in almost all cases. 

I do still wish I had more answers, but I know that knowing more at this point wouldn't do much for me. That is also something about me ... I'm a "input" and "analytical" on my works strengths-finder ... Those two together mean I crave more information and basically obsess about understanding "reasons and causes". Probably the exact wrong type of guy to put in this situation. 

I guess I'm just writing to write tonight. I'm lonely and am reaping the fruits of a life where the only friend I truly treasured (and was close to) was my wife. I wish I had kept my other friends closer.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Rough night last night. I stopped taking my depression med yesterday thinking I was in a good enough place to do without it. Apparently I was in a good enough place BECAUSE of the med. Duh ... Dummy me. When I saw the doc yesterday he recommended I stay on it for a month or two until this is mostly blown over. I just worry about dependency. 

Last night was pretty bad. I kept waking up with nightmares (cant tell you the last time I had those) and was waking up early this morning with what may have been panic attacks. Never had them before but these seem to fit the bill : racing heart, can't breath, elephant on my chest, etc.

Gonna grab something to eat so I can take my pill. I guess I'll worry about dependency when my body stops trying to drive me insane. 

Another day without the STBXW around. Hope this one is good. I go see some friends tonight so that should help.

Maybe I'll turn the med stuff into a separate post so people don't have to find it in my wall-o-text


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Yeah, I know LIS. I relate way too much to what your going through. I woke up with panic attacks, would pace around the bedroom (we sleep in different rooms since she needed "space"). I never had them before either. This isnt easy, the whole process stinks. 

I have moved to the anger stage (for the most part). I am so angry at her for what she did to me (EA), and what she will do to my kids whom i adore. It has helped me ALOT to focus on the positive, and NOT to look back. I took down all the family photos, and ANYTHING that reminds me of how it USED to be. I avoid looking at her at all cost...because I see the wife who USED to love me....but its not her. 

I have joined some singles sites, not to date, but to give me some hope of a future good relationship and fun, and to reassure myself that there are attractive women out there who will love me. It helps me.

Look to the positives and stop dwelling on what you wish it could be. Easier said than done, i know, but it helps.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Garry are these single sites more in your area or nationwide? If they are nationwide, could you share a few of them? I am in the separation stage with a few twists that only I could get myself into. I do consider myself lucky, I am more concerned about moving on than trying to work things out. I tried and she knows I wanted to but as the days pass by, so does my desire to R. I was 26 when we met, now I'm 41. The dating landscape for me has changed a ton since I was last single and running the roads. I guess someone probably has a feed on how to get back into the dating pool after a 15 year absence.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

LIS-Hang in there kid (I'm thinking you are a bit younger than I). We did not have any children either so it is a lot easier when that is the case. New city, new start, new beginnings. Trust me on not really knowing how to get back into the dating pool. Times have changed so much and since I want children, I will have to date younger women. I always and still do like older women by far but at 41, trying to meet one who wants one (child) is a needle in haystack. Keep us posted. I hope you rise above this and you are in my thoughts! Chin up!


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

The next months after moving out will be tough, but know that it gradually does get better and at the end of the day it'll be much better then ever. Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Doing ok today but forgot my dang meds at home. Will have to wait for tonight to take them. It's good to be around friends today and this weekend. 

Gave my notice at work,so that is official. Time to find an apartment and continue this moving on process. I have a ton of questions that I would kill to get answered by her, but I know I wouldn't get honesty anyway. 

I'm scared of screwing up again when/if I meet another girl. Since so much of what I've been told I did wrong could be pointed at any married man after years I feel like I could find myself in this situation again one day. I just don't know how I will ever trust that someone won't leave me again. Then again, maybe that fear will make me a better husband next time. 

Thanks for the support guys. As for my age, yes, I'm about a decade younger than you Chuck. I know I still have a chance to be a dad one day, but I don't like feeling rushed. I'm afraid of making bad decisions because of wanting that... Apparently men have biological clocks too.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Yeah, consider it a bonus that you dont have kids. I have 3...all under 10...and that is what i dread now the most. First, that is will devastate them Second, I WILL NEVER be rid of my STBXW...I have to share the kids for the next 13 years, and then see her at kid milestones for the rest of my life. 

Singles sights abound. Zoosk, match.com, harmony and Plentyoffish.com are some of the more tame ones. Go into a web browser and just type "dating"...a bunch will come up. I'm certainly not advocating jumping into the dating scene, but there are profiles of women who are in the same boat, and just want to date...not looking for long term relationships. I know that for me, personally, while hard in the beginning, when I move to a new relationship, I start forgetting about the old one. I guess sometimes when you fall off the bike, you just have to get back on...and not sit there thinking about how you skinned your knee.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Not having kids is good logically ... But after a recent miscarriage and god knows how much in fertility in the last year, it is kind of depressing. I can't help but think that led to my stbxw's current decisions. I also am not looking forward to starting over.

As for dating ... If I run into someone interesting in the next couple months, great, but I know I won't be looking for a while (especially not on dating sites for a while).

Good weekend so far with friends. Had a milestone moment today and that was a nice celebration. 

Stbxw is texting me once a day right now on random stuff. Even her friends tell me I shouldn't respond, but I don't want to be mean. Especially for the next couple of weeks till I move out... And then I think I'll just want to be left alone. 

I know I don't want her back, but I miss the girl I was in love with. I know she is gone now, but that doesn't make it easier.

On a side note... Binge ate at a party tonight and now feel like I need to spend 4hrs in the gym tomorrow. On the bright side, that is the first time I ate a lot in a few weeks. 

Hope everyone is having a good week


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Good morning world. Another day beginning without her here (traveling again today).

I have a feeling this will be the first day with no text from her. She sent me a long one yesterday and got a 2 word reply from me. Her reply sounded like that annoyed her (or some similar emotion). Knowing her, the punishment will be "fine I'll make him text me next" which won't happen (that is one bit of strength I HAVE found). Still I annoy myself in hoping to get texts from her. 

Can't wait for this connection to start to fade. Not fair that one of us should hold so much power in this (due to wanting the D first and having the affair).

Random thought for the day: going through this makes you actually listen to the lyrics in songs. I liked it better when I was just singin along without paying attention to what was said.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Yeah, funny... I have several songs now that make SO much more sense... About betrayal, heartbreak etc. Once you turn the corner emotionally, you may want to listen to songs of survival and the "go ef yourself" songs. I am remembering how it was to be single...not so bad at all, have to get past the dependence on her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Lawyer got the petition for dissolution of marriage yesterday. Blah. I knew it was coming but I still hate these bumps in the road.

I can't wait until there are no more surprises - until life settles into a new "normal".

So question - do I sign the paperwork part that speeds up the divorce or do I wait and let it drag a bit? I'm torn, I want to be done with all the painful stuff ... But, selfishly, I hate giving her a free pass to move on with her life (and posOM ) so easily


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

You'll be on 50 000 feet if you do that ! Showing her you're larger then live and you don't care will kill her . When I did it she was very surprised and respected me for that.

Anyways you wont win anything if you're pain-in-the-a$$ !


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

True. Blah.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Holding out might be seen as your ok being plan b too. My STBXW has not asked about me filing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Ya Im Definitely not holding out. Not because I'm above the per say, but because I know her well enough to know when she walks away she doesn't look back. I can at least thank her for making the decision to start moving on easy. 

Garry - have neither of you filed?


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

I was hung up on what to do, but finally got some legal advice yesterday and I am filing Wednesday. She doesnt "want" to divorce...she wants to keep me as plan b. She just wont fight the divorce either. See, I KNOW she will come out of the fog and regret this...she ADORED me for many years, up to a year ago....then she snapped six months ago when i guess the EA got serious. I have several threads here when i was panicking. I hoped she would snap out of it, was in denial, all the stuff so many on here go through. I have accepted that she will be like this for a while, and I wont put up with it anymore. I'll be just fine without her...its sad, but I have to move on for my health.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Good for you man. I wish I was in the place you are. Can't wait to find myself there.

I think mine adored me for years too, but I also think her never communicating when she was unhappy (I naively assumed she wasn't since I wasn't) allowed a lot of little things she didn't like grow into something big that spoiled her love for me. Like I said though, I do know her well enough to know she will never go back on this. Heck she rushed into the divorce just a few days after I found out about the EA (which I'm 99.9% sure is a PA after last weekend, if not before). 

Hell in a few weeks I'll likely never hear from her again. She hasn't texted me today, as I predicted. She might not think so, but after more than a decade I know her VERY well.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

I don't think they just snap out of it either. Like an alcoholic, they have to hit rock bottom before they wake up... Some do, some don't. I knew my wife well too... The woman I'm living with is not her.... and she may or may not come back... how long you wait and hope and pray is an individual choice... I couldnt take it anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

My STBXW hasn't text me in a week or more... I'm moving on... More fish in the sea... I loved her... But it ain't love if there is no love iin return.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

You can't predict how long will it take for her to realize what she lost .. if she even realize it !

So, sit around and waiting is not an option , we have to move on and you never know ! I'm pretty sure my W will regret it as soon as I leave and when she sees who I'm dating


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I'm sick, I know, but I really want her to regret it and me to know it one day. Just sucks to know I won't. Definitely can't wait around for that affirmation. 

Moving out will help. I was amazed how good I felt when that 23 yr old flirted with me on that work trip. She's too young for me, but it was fun and confidence building. 

I don't know how I'll move in with someone new without carrying this around with me. I really worry ill sabotage new relationships with this baggage.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Lost, you can live on the Moon but if one day she realize what she lost , you'll hear from her for sure . She'll find you and show you she is interested . Woman doesn't say it directly , but she'll call you , text you, ask for a coffee etc , so that will be the sign


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I hope my new wife answers my phone when that day finally comes.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> I hope my new wife answers my phone when that day finally comes.



ha ha ha ... but be careful what you wish your self


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

BigMac said:


> Lost, you can live on the Moon but if one day she realize what she lost , you'll hear from her for sure . She'll find you and show you she is interested . Woman doesn't say it directly , but she'll call you , text you, ask for a coffee etc , so that will be the sign


Yeah i agree. I had an ex (only 22 but it was VERY similiar to the MLC my wife is having now), she called me about two years after she left me, saying it was a mistake etc. Then a couple years later she called, then a couple years later a xmas card...lol

I was already married for 5 years and she was STILL wanting me back...lol...move on already. NOW, get this, I get these MYlife emails, and It's still her looking me up!!! stalker!!! I wish that on my STBXW. I wanna enjoy rejecting her for years haha.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I've never had one call me back. I dated a girl for a year befor meeting my wife who I was with for the next 10+ (sorry to not be specific but I worry she'll find me on here) . 

I remember wanting the old gf to want me back, and if she ever did I never knew about it. I imagine this will be the same way. The silver lining is more than a decade later I don't mind that that old X never tried to come back. Hopefully I'll feel the same about the stbxw a decade from now. 

Heck the only one I ever think of is my huge crush from HS who called me in college when I was already with the stbxw. She's happily married with kids now I think.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

@Lost , not all do it but remember GF for 1 year is different . It isn't sure your W will do it , she may never realize what she lost but she'll be calling you here and there , you'll see.

@Garry , my first wife that I left she was always checking me here and there even she is in EU and I'm in US . Her cousin mailed me regularly up to 2 years ago and I don't think it was his intention  She is married now and I never heard of her anymore ( and don't want to ).
As of my current one - she is dating recovering drug-attic , no job no car ... I'm sure I'll hear from her very soon after I leave ( we still live together ).


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Good morning all. Time to get ready for the gym. Not looking forward to the holidays this week, but each day has been a little easier. 

I need to pull the trigger on somewhere to live today or tomorrow so I can set up movers. That is still quite the icing on the cake in all of this for me. I JUST moved here for her. Now I'm off to mov again by myself doing all the annoying moving stuff. Nice. 

It's bad that when I get a text I get a little excited that its from her. Now that we are going into day 2 of no contact ( and I don't expect to hear from her until the end of the week) I'm realizing I had been looking forward to the texts. I wasn't replying back much, but I like the affirmation. 

How do I stop that? Is it something I can do or just something time will do for me?


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

It does get easier every day. Our texts have gone from many times a day, to a few, to now nothing. She is at the point now where she wont even return a text (i only send her things like -"leaving house"). Time is the great healer. 

No, the holidays are not exciting or an event to look forwards to for me this year. I had to tell the kids that i had to "work", so i cant go to Thanksgiving with them. They were sad, It hurt me more. First time I have ever not been with them on Thanksgiving...and they told me that.

BUT, I simply have to get past that. I bought a turkey, stuffing (stovetop), a couple veggies, and a pie. I have been alone on Turkey day before, so it wont be a totally new thing. Just cant dwell on the negatives.

See lost, In my situation, the STBXW is at the point where she just doesnt care, about me, the kids, the house, nothing. I cant change her mind, her heart or anything. She will have to hit rock bottom before she can properly evaluate if this is what she really wanted to do...and i fully expect to be long gone by then. I CANNOT sit around hoping, praying, wishing, or stressing about how i can SAVE this...i CANNOT..to me, detaching from her is a survival technique...otherwise i will go insane trying to stop the unstoppable.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

That makes sense Garry, and I doing the same with the new job and big move. In my case it is almost like fate has pushed me down that road... Like a cosmic boot in the ass forcing me to move on. And I'm thankful for that, because I know I wouldn't have had the strength to progress as much as I have without the fates working for me (for a change). 

Like you, I am doubtful mine will ever come out of this, but I am sure I don't want to wait around till (if) she does. I'm pretty sure I would hate myself for letting her back in my life and would be secretly miserable waiting for her to dot his to me again one day.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Yeah, someone told me on here, that the BS that fight to keep the WS are miserable aftewards. Maybe because you make so many sacrifices that its not like a marriage anymore. I could get her to stay im sure, let her have her bf and 100% freedom. But why? I would be miserable knowing what she is doing, and that im letting her. I have been miserable fighting her facebook crap, texting men crap, and fight for freedom crap as it is!!!! I DONT want to go back to that!!!! 


I would rather hurt some now, and get a great loving woman down the road. Or at least not put up with fighting her all the time while she just wants to be free. Its wearing me out.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Garry , is not worth it I'm convinced . Actions speaks for them self. 

Don't need the [email protected] anymore ! Period.

And in such a times they truly show their true nature ... and then the question - Do I really what that peace of s$1t back ? For what ? To start over again in a year or two from now ? I it worth it ?


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

BIGMAC, i agree.... I like myself too much to subject me to that crap.

Yeah, I would ALWAYS be wondering what she is doing on facebook, who is she texting, did she come back because i was the last resort.....nah....im gone!


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Great , love to hear that ! I'm not checking her status too ... and I don't care more and more . Lost is doing great job of moving away , time heal those things the best !


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Lost, focus on the GOOD reasons she is out of your life...all the things that made you mad or pissed you off.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Unfortunately I don't have much of that. I truly was happy in my marriage. We didn't fight, I didn't have anything (or much) to complain about with her. That is part of what makes this hard. For me, we had the idyllic marriage. It turns out that was the case because she wasn't communicating with me. 

I want a girl that like to fight when she's upset next time. If she's unhappy I want to KNOW about it for a change.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Lost, I really thought we did too. We ONLY fought about her facebook stuff and the flirting she has been doing over that last two years. Even at that it was periodic...as I was trying to give her room without "being controlling". It was less than a year ago she wrote me a birthday card that said "as long as i am by your side, i am the happiest wife of all, I love you more than words can say".

Now, she just wants out. Doesnt make sense to me either lost...pass through the stages of grief and we will move on.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Good morning world. Today is the day I pull the trigger on a new place. It's a tough decision between convenience, upgrades and price. 

Had IC last night and it was brought up that I'm not very emotional, and am very logical through all of this. I guess that is true. I only remember crying once. Not sure why ... I feel sad a lot, but no tears or anything. I can't decide if I'm doing well, or burying this. 

I'm worried that I'll carry this around with me forever and let it be a destructive force in the rest of my life.

Got some texts from the stbxw yesterday. As usual she was very nice. It's so hard to reconcile those two people: the sweet girl I married who is everyone's best friend, and the cheater who didn't care enough about our marriage to even bring up the she was becoming unhappy.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Yeah, boy, i hear you on the reconciling issue. That's why, for me, I cant be "nice" to her. I WILL get sucked in and start to play her game of "friends", my heart wants to, my brain luckily says heck no!

I guess I worry too that i will hold this against every furture GF. I will have to be open to them and let them know the whole story, so they dont just think im a total wack job.

You will be ok LIS. It will be a transition for both of us.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Indeed on all of the above. I have to learn to be ok with being "mean" when the situation calls for it. 

As far as holding it against future GFs ... I'm hoping, when the time comes, that the new relationship will be so exciting that it will be easy to overlook the past. Kind of like the stbxw's with their PoSOM ... They are so wrapped up in the excitement of the affair they don't think logically. I hope the same works in our favor later. 

Where I see the problem coming is later on in the relationship when the excitement dies down some and the new girl is friends with another man. Not sure how ill ever trust a girl around another guy again. I know I have no interest in my female friends, but obviously after this I know I can never be sure about other people.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

@Lost , remember what I told you in my previous posts - within 6 months ( I even think earlier ) she'll be interested in you , just be patient and you'll see.


@Garry 

from my conversations with my SBMXW I think the sentence - lets stay friends , keep in touch and go from there - is to prevent you of getting into a relationship with OW , or simply saying - You're my Plan B honey


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

yeah...i think my wife actually told me, after we decided to divorce, AND we talked about the POSOM- "i would like to go month to month on my apartment rental in case i want to come back"

ahh...dont worry...ill have your keys hun, you aint coming back.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Garry2012 said:


> yeah...i think my wife actually told me, after we decided to divorce, AND we talked about the POSOM- "i would like to go month to month on my apartment rental in case i want to come back"


Ha ha ... Welcome on the Plan B team 

yesterday my STBMXW say something similar ...

can't wait to move out and to end all this BS


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

me too...im tired of the bs!


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

So sorry you have to live with her still. I had to live with stbxh for a month before my place was ready. Worst h3ll on earth. Especially when you know you are going to D...


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Mine has "holed" up in her bedroom for the last week...so i have been making the dinners, cleaning etc. Basically she isnt there...so thats better. Not sure WHY she is doing it, dont care really, but it has been better with her out of the way.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks guys. At least we have been apart for a lot of this with conflicting travel schedules.

You guys will appreciate this: we emails back and forth about bills today and towards the end of the exchange she asks what my plans for the day she gets home are and tells me when she'll get home.

I don't know what to do with that. I don't want to be mean, but I hate the "look how nice I am" game she plays. I wish it would just stay all business at this point.

T-minus one week until I move and can start trying to forget all of this.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Thanks guys. At least we have been apart for a lot of this with conflicting travel schedules.
> 
> You guys will appreciate this: we emails back and forth about bills today and towards the end of the exchange she asks what my plans for the day she gets home are and tells me when she'll get home.
> 
> ...


Panicking ! That is it ! She knows you're moving away and don't like this .

If you don't have the things to split and she wanna manipulate you, then yes ... she is not comfortable with you moving far away ! What if you catch a gal and her Plan B is gone forever ? 

If you wanna be mean, just before she come home, you go out and come back by midnight ! This way you'll scare her allot ... she'll think you moved on and doesn't give a crap about her !


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

BigMac said:


> Panicking ! That is it ! She knows you're moving away and don't like this .
> 
> If you don't have the things to split and she wanna manipulate you, then yes ... she is not comfortable with you moving far away ! What if you catch a gal and her Plan B is gone forever ?
> 
> If you wanna be mean, just before she come home, you go out and come back by midnight ! This way you'll scare her allot ... she'll think you moved on and doesn't give a crap about her !


I agree with this.

My stbxh barely talked to me for 2 weeks when I first discovered his EA and said we are divorcing. When it got closer to me moving out and he saw me getting exited he was so nice and sucked me back in emotionally.

Don't fall for it. Just business talk, no personal information/plans talk if you can help it.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I'll try to be strong while still being nice. If possible I don't want the divorce to get ugly. Right now we are working together ok. 

I'll leave the next day for a work trip and then when i get back it will be no more than 3 days until I move.... Depending on the movers.

I hate that I know I'll miss her ... Not her as she is now, but who she once was.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Lost , I think we're on the same bus and that is wrong . You wanna be nice to her because you hope and will hope till the last minute there , that just before you have to leave she'll jump on you neck crying begging you to stay !

Unfortunately that wont happen to non of us. Moving away you're on the last trip on the " Plan B " line ... within 6 months she'll contact you, you'll see !


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

BigMac said:


> Unfortunately that wont happen to non of us. Moving away you're on the last trip on the " Plan B " line ... within 6 months she'll contact you, you'll see !


Yup....guarenteed...

Make sure you are strong enough by then...lol


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Dont be surprised if she offers you some goodbye sex the day you move out.....


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Dont be surprised if she offers you some goodbye sex the day you move out.....


I don't see hearing from her after this. She is too proud. 

As for sex ... I'd almost welcome it, a month is a long time 

But, besides that, she is getting hers elsewhere now ... I do t think she'd "cheat" on the posOM ... Oh the irony


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> I don't see hearing from her after this. She is too proud.
> 
> As for sex ... I'd almost welcome it, a month is a long time
> 
> But, besides that, she is getting hers elsewhere now ...* I do t think she'd "cheat" on the posOM* ... Oh the irony


Not experienced in this scenario.

Although .. I've heard many stories of that exact thing.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> I don't see hearing from her after this. She is too proud.


You can be surprised how quick this can turn 

You say she was cold, doesn't care etc ... but now she is talking to you, tell you what time she'll be home ... what a change huh


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Not sure how I feel about that. There was a point where I quickly would have forgiven her. Not sure if that is possible now, and it definitely won't be possible when I move and have a new career, lease etc. 

Hearing from her at that point would just drag me down, I think.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Not sure how I feel about that. There was a point where I *quickly would have forgiven her*. Not sure if that is possible now, and it definitely won't be possible when I move and have a new career, lease etc.
> 
> Hearing from her at that point would just drag me down, I think.


That's called rug sweeping.

Nothing quick about things like this.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Not sure how I feel about that. There was a point where I quickly would have forgiven her. Not sure if that is possible now, and it definitely won't be possible when I move and have a new career, lease etc.
> 
> Hearing from her at that point would just drag me down, I think.


When you realize they drag you down, that is the point you are starting to move onward and upward...

One step at a time


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost

Do me one favor.

Do not do sloppy seconds.

And be mean once in your marriage.

Tell her how disappointed you are in her and do not be friends with her.

She does not deserve your friendship.

My wife does not express her unhappiness very well.

And we have been married over 20 years, together 26. 

But no matter how unhappy with me, our marriage or herself she would never cheat on me.

Wanna know why? She has immense self esteem. She respects herself too much.

Look for those qualities Lost. I gurantee you if the next woman you fall in love with has those qualities she will love you froever.

And you will no longer be "LOST"!

Stop telling us how nice your wife is to her friends. All she had to be was nice to her husband. And she is not.

So move on. With dignity. And never look back. She does not deserve that last glance from you.

HM64


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Lost
> 
> Do me one favor.
> 
> ...



Very nice said HM64 

this is 100% true about my case too


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

+1 on what happyman said.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks guys. I guess sometimes you don't truly "hear" yourself ... You need a hand from others to point out the crazy or destructive things you are telling yourself. I appreciate you guys being that for me. 

I can't say half of what I say here to my friends, partly because they want me to focus on the good in my life (which I shroud, no doubt, but it isn't the reality of wher my head is sometimes), and partly because so many of my friends are connected to hers (through work or marriage). 

Woke up this morning very down. No real clue why. I must dream about this stuff some nights; that's the only reason I can think of why I'd be more "down" when I wake up than when I went to bed. 

There has been a lot of loss for me this year (2012 - worst year ever!) and a lot of change coming all at once now: two moves in two months (the next one away from her next week), new job, new city, done with my masters (and no longer seeing those friends often) and being alone in my life for pretty much the first time. 

I could use a vacation from all of this! 

Thanks again for helping me see what I can't always bring myself to look for. Things are getting better, but there are still bumps in the road.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost

I know all this upheaval in your life is scary.

I was in your shoes a long time ago. I lost all my closest friends because they all decided to do my fiancé while I was at OCS.

So I get the no friends and the moves.

Here is the difference. We both had no choice but to move on. 

No girl.
No friends.
Totally new environment.....

Embrace it. Do not fear it. Put yourself out there. Meet new people.
Find a cool place to live.

and live your life to the fullest.

It worked for me and it can work for you.

I met the woman of my dreams and she helped make all my dreams come true.

Go find that girl. Remember the checklist.

She has your morals.
She has your values.
She is your friend before others.
She values herself. Impeccable self esteem.
She will love you to the day you die.

Do not settle for less my man.

Now get the "f" out of that place, never look back and go live your life.

HM64


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Lost-In my case this has went on for several weeks. I had vivid dreams of her and I from years ago a few times. I know she is wondering why I have not chased after her. I poured my heart out at the talk and brought up the fact of working things out once verbally and last, in a letter. She wants her freedom and just may be seeing someone else. But it does not matter, simply not wanting to try and work things out did it for me. That's like giving up. Her main complaint was lack of affection but she had an EA and when caught, did not want to disclose all information but did say N/C. About the time I started turning the corner, I find an email to him (non sexual) but there went the trust again. Again did not want to discuss it. She knows that held me back and can say she does not until her teeth fall out. 
To heal I have to D...too many wounds. Yes the day will come when she attempts to re-enter. Am I 100% certain I would decline....no but I wouldn't bet too much cash on a reconnection.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

HM64 - Thanks for sharing that. It helps to hear from others who have been through similar. It is definitely nice to hear you met the woman of your dreams. I hope to get that lucky. 

As for my STBXW, i would have said she met all of those criteria but one - she didnt have very good self esteem. Towards the end I guess she valued her friends over me, but I dont think it was always that way. The self esteem bit gets me though ... I wouldnt have guessed that to be all that important. 

Chuck - sounds VERY similar to my situation. Every time i start to believe her I find evidence that she is lying and seeing/talking to the posOM. I wish I wanted the D like you do. I mean I know i SHOULD want it, but it is hard to admit that I actually do. I guess I'm a bit of a glutton for punishment. 

I think it is hard because I know had things not gone poorly with the pregnancy we would be expecting in a month and a half. Was really looking forward to that and I guess I'm having trouble letting go of what I THOUGHT my life would be like right now. 

Just a bummer of a day. Yesterday was better, hopefully tomorrow will be too.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lostinspaces said:


> Yesterday turned out to be the first day that actually passed with no contact. She was in a different town with friends and the posOM. I'm a little surprised how much that doesnt hurt (not to say there isnt a little regret there, but not as much as i expected).
> 
> I am actually learning to anticipate her actions at this point. I realized that there was no way she was coming home last night and also that it will be as late as possible today before she gets home. If i think of her like a wild teenager it actually becomes pretty easy to predict what she'll do. Its something of her own 180 i guess.
> 
> Not sure what I should be doing for the next few weeks that we'll live together while the preparations for the new job come through.


Have you exposed the affair?

Does posOM have a posOMW?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Lost-Maybe the holidays are bothering you. I know you've said to yourself -this is the first Thanksgiving we hadn't been together since......- it's normal. I did it too. I am he!! bent on the D but yeah....it still hurts. Those times when you think back and you knew....110% the two of you were so much in love it was sickening. Then you think how did "that" go to "this?" But it all comes out in the wash eventually, just be prepared for her to be a' lookin' you up sometime down the road. What Mac n Bride said were so true.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> HM64 - Thanks for sharing that. It helps to hear from others who have been through similar. It is definitely nice to hear you met the woman of your dreams. I hope to get that lucky.
> 
> As for my STBXW, i would have said she met all of those criteria but one - she didnt have very good self esteem. Towards the end I guess she valued her friends over me, but I dont think it was always that way. The self esteem bit gets me though ... I wouldnt have guessed that to be all that important.
> 
> ...


Lost

Being a Dad is awesome. You will experience that gift someday.

But your wife has issues. And having a child with her would have been tough because her infidelity would have happened anyway.

She has self esteem issues and a miscarriage or a child would have the same effect on your marriage.

Start focusing on your new future instead of "what would have been...."


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Conrad - a few people know, and those are connected to enough other people that matter that it will get out, if it hasn't spread some already.

Chuck - maybe the holidays are bothering me. Not sure, Thanksgiving is a holiday I've been alone for the past few years as she goes to see family and I haven't been able to get away from work. I think I was just dwelling on her and the recent bits of the affair that I know / have heard about. I really kind of wish she could just be honest about it with me at this point so I could quit hearing things from people. 

HM64 - ya,maybe you are right. Not sure if she would have go e this route without the problems we had this summer ... But logic says if she did it in this case she eventually would have done it in some other case. 

I was looking forward to being a dad and just hate that I have to reset my entire life at this stage. I don't want to rush a new relationship, but I dated for more than half a decade before marrying my wife. I guess I'll have to move a bit quicker at my age.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Oh, and this waking up at 3:30am crap has to stop 

Edit - so I got a text early with the "Happy Thanksgiving" and other stuff. I started trying to analyze what it all meant when I realized that it didn't matter. Put my phone in the other room and won't look at it again until tonight ( unless it rings - which would be friends or family).

I've realized that some parts of me look forward to the texts, as that is the only connection to her I still have. That is a connection I have to break.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

It will come. I dont expect them anymore....usually cringe when i get them, because its another "can you help me with..." deal. I wake alot too. She didnt talke to me today, but I know she is feeling guilty for me being alone today, she made sure to tell all the kids to wish me happy thanksgving...and i THINK was looking for a hug before she left....i walked away without even looking at her.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Garry-I hope you realize you will here "let's try and stay together for the kids"......in about four weeks? God I would be a wreck if we had kids. You're in my prayers!


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

yeah, my oldest has now started noticing that we dont "eat as a family" since we had a big fight. Broke my heart...with so much more to come.

I really dont think she will do that....I have been telling her that this will really hurt them...she doesnt care.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Garry-the fact she acts as if she does not care is more realism in it happening. it is only an occurrance, you dictate the outcome. when it happens to me, i am lost as a deer in belize but when it is someone else, you have the eyewear on.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

she may try to work it out...im pretty far gone at this point....the impact to the kids is the ONLY factor in her favor...but they would have to suffer for a while too (i love my kids dearly) to make me do that...


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Garry-I still and always will love who my stbx was. God she was amazing! But that person is gone. Therefore the marriage is gone. Would I date her a year later.....maybe but it would be from that point forward. If she was anything remote to what she turned into, I would pull to a red light get out of car and run. I had a hand in the demise, I admit it and am by no means in the country of perfect. Your children may impact what you decide but when the smoke settles and they grow up.....they will understand. Again if we had children I would be looking at my situation completely different.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

"Garry-I still and always will love who my stbx was. God she was amazing! But that person is gone."

So true...


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Garry2012 said:


> "Garry-I still and always will love who my stbx was. God she was amazing! But that person is gone."
> 
> So true...


Exactly. I miss the girl I married. No clue exactly when she left or where she went, but I'm pretty sure she is gone for good. My stbxw seems to be intentionally doing things in her life that I wouldn't like (heavy drinking, etc)... I'm thinking that is part of her way to try to break the bond. 

Just got back from a 22m ride and am hopefully exhausted enough for good sleep tonight. Got to do some serious packing tomorrow.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> My stbxw seems to be intentionally doing things in her life that I wouldn't like (heavy drinking, etc)...


Was she always heavy drinker ? When did she started ?


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

You know, that happens....sometimes women go so far as to get caught having sex etc. I guess to break it off so they dont have to actually do anything. I dunno.

I expected my stbxw to start doing **** like that too....but she has not.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

No, she drank occasionally and Aracely she had a bit too much (typically when traveling our out with friends, maybe a few times a year).

I wonder if she'll ever look back on how she is acting and wonder why she got so silly. I doubt she'll regret the divorce, but I think she might one day regret some of her actions lately. Especially lying to me about everything when she could just be honest ... Since it wouldn't change anything at this point. 

That is what will keep us from ever having a cordial relationship in the future: the lies. If she had just been straight with me at some point then I could at least feel like I could trust what she says.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Yeah, when i think i want to like her again...i just think of the VAR where sheis flirting with her POSOM and saying our marriage is a over....good feeling gone. I cant even look her in the eyes anymore.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I get more hung up when she is here. My biggest problem is seeing her as my best friend still ... I don't see her as my wife as much, but more than a decade of friendship is hard to forget.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

I think she is struggling more with that...i solved ALL her problems, and was her savior...I hid my problems because it stressed her out too much. But, yeah, she still was the one I shared my life with...now i just talk to myself....and yes...i now answer too.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> No, she drank occasionally and Aracely she had a bit too much (typically when traveling our out with friends, maybe a few times a year).
> 
> I wonder if she'll ever look back on how she is acting and wonder why she got so silly. I doubt she'll regret the divorce, but I think she might one day regret some of her actions lately. Especially lying to me about everything when she could just be honest ... Since it wouldn't change anything at this point.
> 
> That is what will keep us from ever having a cordial relationship in the future: the lies. If she had just been straight with me at some point then I could at least feel like I could trust what she says.



OH , if she started heavily drinking after the ILYBNILY then I bet all you want she'll be running back to you !

Why I think so - she isn't happy with the situation right now , why she get into the alcohol . And that can't go on and on.
After you move away she'll realize that she is killing her self ... and then you'll see .
If she doesn't come back then she'll became an huge alcoholic and you don't wanna be there believe me .

Stay tune .


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I think she is making some life mistakes right now, and I hope she comes out of being self-destructive, but I don't expect her to contact me after I move out. She is too committed to this and her friends/family know of her decision (although I doubt she told them of her affair) and she is probably finding ways to make me out to be the reason to leave. She won't be able to explain why she would go back, so she won't. That's the way she is. 

It's ok, I don't know how I could ever get back to feeling like I used to about her. I miss what we had, but that woman is gone. 

I just want to move on and hopefully be lucky enough to find someone with all her good qualities PLUS loyalty and communication before I'm too old to have a family.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Lost-Sometimes it helps to take something (picture, ann. gift) and bury it. I did it and it brought some closure. The D has not happened yet but my train left the station. The appearing in court is just a formality.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I may try that after I move out Chuck. I knew it was over for forever a few weeks ago when talking with her ... After so many years I can read her like a book (she thinks she is the only one with this ability). She had such a look of loathing and anger because I had caught her in another lie, I knew then this wasn't repairable and she'd never have any interest in trying.

As for today ... Lots of packing to get done. She gets home tomorrow (an oddly enough had asked easier this week what my plans were ... I feel like I'm being set up for something). Hopefully we'll spend the majority of the day going through some stuff so I can be mostly done with packing. 

I'm looking forward to seeing lots of friends next week on my work trip. I will also stop by the office of the girl who I developed my first post-separation crush on while I was on that last work trip. Maybe I'll get another goodbye hug 

Not expecting to get a text or anything from the stbxw today. She sent the one yesterday that I referred to above and my answer was along the lines of "Thanks, you too" to her whole paragraph and smily. I think that pisses her off when I do that and I hope it doesn't damage our ability to remain nice through the D. 

Should I be more chatty in texts? It just feels so forced or fake for me to text with her like we are still the same people we were when married ... But I don't know that conveying a "I don't care about you" type message will help us stay decent in the D either. 

Any thoughts would be appreciated.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> She gets home tomorrow (an oddly enough had asked easier this week what my plans were ... I feel like I'm being set up for something). Hopefully we'll spend the majority of the day going through some stuff so I can be mostly done with packing.


I think the same , she may "ask" you something ! Remember your moving out day is approaching and the " unknown " stresses her even if she isn't aware of it .



> Should I be more chatty in texts?


I'll quote Conrad here - cool,firm, dispassionate !

Act happy with moving out and " looking forward " for the changes coming ahead . When we talk yesterday about me moving out I did exactly that and she wasn't really happy ... actually wasn't happy at all !


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Cool, calm and dispassionate is right!

You are on to a better and brighter future.

Give her what she wants. Especially when left with no choice.

I always say embrace it.

And if you need motivation read Shamwow's thread......

I am leaving you and Big Mac today with one of my favorite sayings:

*"Life is too short to spend time with people who suck the happiness out of you. If someone wants you in their life, they'll make room for you. You shouldn't have to fight for a spot. Never ever insist yourself on someone who continuously over looks your worth."*


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Ya, that tactic just seems to discourage her from contacting me ... But I guess that is not a bad thing anyway. I just want the contact because I want that human interaction and emotional links i had with her. Still I don't have a choice but to move on and I guess the geography will help with that.

She won't ask what you are thinking Big - I feel more like she will be asking something about the terms of the divorce. Especially after spending a week with family who all have a history of ugly divorces. They are really poisoning her as far as this situation ... Especially since she was the one having the affair. They prolly dont know that though. 

I've been thinking today that both women I've had serious relationships with (sure the first was in HS) left me AFTER finding someone else. I read something somewhere that this is common for women ... They tend to form new bonds before being willing to sever old ones. That bothers me a bit. How do I ever trust who I'm with if I likely won't know there is a problem until they've already replaced me. Or maybe it's just me.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

It is not you.

Again you need to find a woman with strong self esteem.

A woman in touch with herself.

My wife was a virgin when we married. She was only on a two dates with two other guys.

She enjoyed being with her friends.

It made me nervous. I dated her for five years before we got engaged.

Wanna know something? She has the strongest self esteem of any woman I have ever met.

Great girlfriend, great wife, great mother. They are out there, you just need to qualify the next woman you are getting serious about.

Qualify her really well.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> I've been thinking today that both women I've had serious relationships with (sure the first was in HS) left me AFTER finding someone else. I read something somewhere that this is common for women ... They tend to form new bonds before being willing to sever old ones. That bothers me a bit. How do I ever trust who I'm with if I likely won't know there is a problem until they've already replaced me. Or maybe it's just me.



The red part - as far as I know this means one thing = INSECURE !

Do you wanna deal with insecure people ?


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> *"Life is too short to spend time with people who suck the happiness out of you. If someone wants you in their life, they'll make room for you. You shouldn't have to fight for a spot. Never ever insist yourself on someone who continuously over looks your worth."*


:iagree:


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

The qualifying bit is intimidating. Again, I never would have guessed this from my stbxw, so I don't know that I rust my judgement in These matters. 

Yes she was a bit insecure on some small items, but very confident in others. I think that may describe most of us.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Packing up the house is a bit harder than i thought. Doing ok ... But reality is setting in and I just want to wake up and find this was all a bad dream.

The scariest thing to me is knowing these feelings will last on and off for months yet. I really don't want to deal with this for another day,let alone for months to come.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

It has to get easier LIS. Just hang in there...try not to think about it too much maybe.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I think the last two days have been so hard because I know I see her tomorrow. It should be "interesting" . I really wishi knew what I wanted at this point.

As guessed she hasn't texted me today, when I don't play "friends" and act all chatty and fun in text she doesn't text again for a day or two. Not sure what path I should take. About to go out to dinner with a friend. Should get my mind off of things for a few hours. 

Thanks guys ... I truly appreciate the input and just conversation.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Any suggestions one how to treat her tomorrow? I think we need to do some paperwork and I need to continue packing and also get ready for my work trip. 

Wish me luck guys.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Any suggestions one how to treat her tomorrow? I think we need to do some paperwork and I need to continue packing and also get ready for my work trip.
> 
> Wish me luck guys.


Cool,firm, dispassionate 

Act happy , that's killing then the most , remember she expect you to be miserable , lonely and depressed .

Good lock Lost , hope the best for you


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks Big. We'll see how it goes, but I'm definitely not looking forward to it. The lies bother me the most at this point. I know she is still seeing him but she denies it ... I just don't get why she lies about that at this point. Why not just tell the truth? You'd think all our years together would have bought that. 

I'm going to start marking my level of "moving on" by how much past 4:30 I sleep every day . I stayed up late last night and still, *boom*, awake and thinking at 4:34. I miss the days of rolling around in bed till 9 . 

Hope everyone is doing well ... I'll take any spare well-wishes and prayers today.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Just did something I'm not proud of and had promised myself I wouldn't do again. I know she is still with this guy ... So why do I want to "know"? What difference does it make? 

I just wish I understood how she could let herself fall out of love without mentioning it or fighting for it at all. Of course her "fall out of love" timeline coincides with when she started being better friends with him. 

Allow me to be VERY selfish and probably horrible: God, please don't let them work out. I understand that I can't have her, but please don't let someone who would get in between someone else's marriage have her.


----------



## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Found out today that she is telling people that I left HER... What?!

She has to know this would get back to me. I just don't get this ... She hurt me and now she's telling people I left her. In what world does that make any sense?


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> Thanks Big. We'll see how it goes, but I'm definitely not looking forward to it. The lies bother me the most at this point. I know she is still seeing him but she denies it ... I just don't get why she lies about that at this point. Why not just tell the truth? You'd think all our years together would have bought that.


Because you're on the Plan B bus and your moving day is coming to town ! Also she may be realizing the grass isn't greener and she isn't sure she made the right decision . I predicted you she'll run back to you and you'll see.



> Allow me to be VERY selfish and probably horrible: God, please don't let them work out. I understand that I can't have her, but please don't let someone who would get in between someone else's marriage have her.


You shouldn't do this my friend . Karma may bite you . I'm still convinced she knows the posOM is just a temp thing , so you don't need vudu or whatever . 
I advice you to " apologize " for that !


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Found out today that she is telling people that I left HER... What?!
> 
> She has to know this would get back to me. I just don't get this ... She hurt me and now she's telling people I left her. In what world does that make any sense?


LIS, I would say its her way of saving face. Now its not her fault. My STBXW is adamant about this whole thing not being her fault. See, she can say its either your fault, or it was a unified decision...therefore, noone can point the finger at her. I am learning too, can't apply basic logic to these things my friend.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Garry2012 said:


> LIS, I would say its her way of saving face. Now its not her fault. My STBXW is adamant about this whole thing not being her fault. See, she can say its either your fault, or it was a unified decision...therefore, noone can point the finger at her. I am learning too, can't apply basic logic to these things my friend.


Gentlemen,

Read this link - again.

It's never their fault.

An Overview of the Drama Triangle


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost

There is nothing wrong with setting people straight and letting hem know your wife cheated on you/walked away from the marriage.

You can also let them know that you have no idea who she is anymore, refuses counseling and has left you o choice but to move on with your life.

Be strong and assertive. Stand up for yourself.

But most of all be happy because your life in a few months is going to be great.

Do not settle for anything less.

Did you read Shamwows original thread?

Do it and use that knowledge to improve you and your future.

HM64


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> Did you read Shamwows original thread?


Can you post the lint to it please .Thank you.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

It's here http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/31388-go-time-time-go-sucks.html

I'm not but 2 pages into it but it sounds like he is telling my story ... Traveling for work, young guy telling her she deserves more ... Only diff is she has money too. 

Wish me luck guys. She just got home. I have to deal with this now ... (Tried to stay at the gym until after she got home but didn't make it) .

Thanks for all your support...


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

stay strong LIS!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lost,

Here's his original thread. Truly one for the ages.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ls-lot-sex-life-has-stalled-worried-help.html


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

She just went out for a run ... I guess she could find this but I no longer care. 

You guys will love this: my lawyer contact me to let me know she (through her lawyer) is claiming to not make enough to support her lifestyle (she's at nearly 100k) and the I, however have the means to support her (even though until I took this new job that I start next week I made HALF of what she did).

They also claim we have been living separate since may. Wtf? I only found out in late Oct and we slept together 2 days prior to that. This person makes me sick. 

Oh and to make it better, a friend of hers contacted me (not liking what she did apparently) and told me that they had been having the EA since at least June... When we had finally gotten pregnant after trying for half a year. Wtf.

It's like I've been living with a stranger. I think I am safely in the anger stage right now. She was really nice when she was here but bailed for the run quick. God thing as I'm pretty mad right now and I want to stay calm and cool. 

I don't see what bringing this up would do for me.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lost,

Have you looked at this yet?

An Overview of the Drama Triangle

Classic victim behavior.

She's entitled. posOM will rescue her.


----------



## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Which one? Me or her? I'm trying not to be the victim but its really hard to assess your own behavior. I can give decent advice on these forums ... But god knows I don't do a good job of following hat same advice. 

I guess she is eying to rush the D so she can safely be with posOM huh?


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lostinspaces said:


> Which one? Me or her? I'm trying not to be the victim but its really hard to assess your own behavior. I can give decent advice on these forums ... But god knows I don't do a good job of following hat same advice.
> 
> I guess she is eying to rush the D so she can safely be with posOM huh?


The reason she is so willfully blind and mean is because she believes she is YOUR victim. She's convinced herself.

Any explaining, logic, or pleading... counterpoints all are seen - by her - as you grabbing victim status.

That will not be allowed.

Those are the most vicious fights.


----------



## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Ah. Weird that she has claimed that role. I think she is a Rescuer by nature. It would definitely make sense with the guy she's chosen (recovering drug addict, current alcoholic, not great career, younger, and sending her notes on how she's saved him). 

I know it takes time to heal, but I just want all of this to be over. 

Let me ask you this: based on what I've said, confronting her about any of this stuff (lawyer stuff, pregnancy affair, lying to people about who left who) won't have any but negative consequences, right? 

Should I just continue to be nice-ish today?


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> The reason she is so willfully blind and mean is because she believes she is YOUR victim. She's convinced herself.
> 
> Any explaining, logic, or pleading... counterpoints all are seen - by her - as you grabbing victim status.
> 
> ...


Of course, he "made" her cheat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

spun said:


> Of course, he "made" her cheat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Through his neglect, he "forced her" to turn to posOM and start banging his lights out.

After all, posOM "understands" her.

Right.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lostinspaces said:


> Ah. Weird that she has claimed that role. I think she is a Rescuer by nature. It would definitely make sense with the guy she's chosen (recovering drug addict, current alcoholic, not great career, younger, and sending her notes on how she's saved him).
> 
> I know it takes time to heal, but I just want all of this to be over.
> 
> ...


Cool

Firm

Dispassionate

Work on you.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I really hope I can find some good IC where I'm moving that I can afford (insurance wont kick in for 90 days after I start). 

Since I can't really talk to her about this and follow the 180 (or follow Conrads good advice) I'm going to have no closure on this. My friends really don't want to talk about it (tough guy buck up and or f-her types) and I will want to talk it though. Not that talking will change anything.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lostinspaces said:


> I really hope I can find some good IC where I'm moving that I can afford (insurance wont kick in for 90 days after I start).
> 
> Since. I can't really talk to her about this and follow the 180 I'm going to have no closure on this. My friends really don't want to talk about it (tough guy buck up and or f-her types) and I will want to talk it though. Not that talking will change anything.


Have you read _*Codependent No More*_ by Melanie Beattie?


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> I really hope I can find some good IC where I'm moving that I can afford (insurance wont kick in for 90 days after I start).
> 
> Since I can't really talk to her about this and follow the 180 (or follow Conrads good advice) I'm going to have no closure on this. My friends really don't want to talk about it (tough guy buck up and or f-her types) and I will want to talk it though. Not that talking will change anything.


Closure comes from within.

You will find it when you are "right" with yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

spun said:


> Closure comes from within.
> 
> You will find it when you are "right" with yourself.


I've never read a truer statement.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Haven't read that Conrad. Will have to look for it. I'm sure I am. Heck I sit with her on the couch and just wish we were back to the way we were, but apparently she was unhappy for months and I was oblivious.

Thanks for the support guys. Would love to get right with myself... But I don't know what is wrong.

She made plans to go to a friends house, so I'm about to be here by myself for the rest of the night. Kills me that the girl I loved for so long can't wait to be away from me when all she used to want was to be with me. Somehow I missed when that changed and that scares me for my ability to notice it in the future. 

I don't know that I'm wired to go through this again ... For me marriage was for life and i just never mentally prepared to start over. I wouldn't know where to start in dating.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Haven't read that Conrad. Will have to look for it. I'm sure I am. Heck I sit with her on the couch and just wish we were back to the way we were, but apparently she was unhappy for months and I was oblivious.
> 
> Thanks for the support guys. Would love to get right with myself... But I don't know what is wrong.
> 
> ...



Lost

Stop crying. You are not oblivious. She lied to you. She has used you. You guts were trying to have a baby while she was screwing around on you.

Don't Yu get it yet. This has so little t o do with you.

About the biggest mistake you have made is that you are too nice.

Do you honestly think your wife could even tell you the truth so you have closure???


She cannot even be honest with herself!!!

None of us could imagine what. Is going through her head because she is so F'd up right now.

Look at the loser the POSOM is. There is no comparison to be ads between you two.

So stop crying. Get the hell out of there. Make sure your attorney gives her nothing. 

Hell, you should ask to be reimbursed or the fertility costs alone!!!

Be grateful you never had a child with her. She is no friend of yours.

Run, run, run as fast as you can. 

Notice how you keep learning more crap she as pulled on you???
And you want closure from this liar, she has not been your wife for a while.

You should be disgusted, disgusted with her......

HM64


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Ouch. You are right of course. Not sure how to learn to be less nice. That has always been a good thing about me ... Hard to start looking at it like a bad thing. 

Fortunately I haven't given myself much of a choice in the matter by moving so far away. 

You'll like this though ... She brought up the girl I met on the work trip (apparently talked to her on a work trip) and that I might have met someone at the gym. Seriously, It blew my mind and made me laugh inside.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lostinspaces said:


> Ouch. You are right of course. Not sure how to learn to be less nice. That has always been a good thing about me ... Hard to start looking at it like a bad thing.
> 
> Fortunately I haven't given myself much of a choice in the matter by moving so far away.
> 
> You'll like this though ... She brought up the girl I met on the work trip (apparently talked to her on a work trip) and that I might have met someone at the gym. Seriously, It blew my mind and made me laugh inside.


Let me make it easier for you.

Do you have $4.00 for a "used copy"?

It's the best thing you'd do for yourself today.

Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself: Melody Beattie: 9780894864025: Amazon.com: Books

Now, go do it.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

i agree with hm64. However, you HAVE to turn the corner from victim, to independent man. STOP feeling bad for yourself, and STOP thinkng she has ANY of your or you relationship's best interests in mind. She is out to use you and to get all she can. I am sure that is hard to believe, i am there too trust me. The woman you once knew is no longer....she is gone. You have to look at her as who she is NOW. It has helped me to delete or hide picture, cards whatever. To me, they keep me looking at her as who she used to be.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

The book is on the list for when I move next week Conrad. Thanks man. 

I'm having a particularly weak day, probably since I hadn't seen her in a week, and I'm not proud of it. 

It will get better tomorrow. I have a work trip and I'll get to see a lot of close friends. It's amazing how much better I do when she isn't here. 

Thanks for the smack to the head guys. I needed it.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Failed in a way that is beyond belief tonight. Pretty ashamed of what I did, even if it did lead to me learning what I wanted to learn. 

As Conrad would say - why do you care? Don't know, but I did. Now I wish I didn't. Time to forgive myself and move on. 

I know this will get easier as time passes, and at this point it can't pass fast enough.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Got more information than you wanted?


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Yup, but nothing I wasn't already sure of in my head and heart. She just wouldn't admit it to me before. It's still just so hard to believe that things that seem so small can lead to her falling out of love with me and running into the arms of another man. 

I suppose some small part of me was still holding out hope that this could be fixed. Or something. I don't know. I mean I've posted here that I know her well enough to know shed never go back on the decision ... And that is true. 

Denial is a funny thing my friends. 

I want to be angry at her for what she did but I'm really not. Just sad for where we are now. At least I am angry with the posOM though. Seriously, who goes after a married woman (and a pregnant one for part of it)?


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> Seriously, who goes after a married woman (and a pregnant one for part of it)?



Needy , moody , creepy ,insecure MF lusa !

That relationship won't last much . And the symptoms are there - alcohol , nasty, lies etc ... believe what you want but I'm sure in 6 months you'll be in a better state then her , you'll see !


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost

Be angry at both of them.

There is a right way and a wrong way to end any relationship.

Either way will hurt. But which one would you choose?

Hopefully you got your closure.

Now move on.

HM64


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I think I did. I know I'll suffer a relapse at some point (love is a drug, after all), but I know she is planning on pursuing the relationship with the posOM so now I can't be surprised by it in the future. That's good at least. Although I might never know, since at this point our friends have pretty much split and once I move out in four days I doubt I'll be getting updates.

I heard two pieces of divorced wisdom the other day and they both ring true:

1) the saddest part of divorce is realizing that you no longer have the right to know if the other person is ok. 

2) good memories cause bad feelings - divorce ruins places where happy memories live

Being back in our old town definitely makes the second one true. Every location has a good memory associated with it. I'm thankful that I'm moving to a new city with no memories. 

I'm scared of being completely alone for the first time in my life, but I'd rather be alone than live with the ghosts of my past.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Hanging out with friends today has been awesome. It would be great if I lived near all of these friends (support) still. I didnt realize how much that helps until i was here. just having all these distractions is great. That will be the tough part of the new move, no local support. 

Stbxw and I have started severing all ties in prep for the move out this week. Very strange to know that you are prepping to never talk again to the person you have spent more than a decade with. I have to respect that this is what she wants though. 

One sentence of selfishness time: I just wish she had to start at square one like I do, rather than having her next relationship already started ... Would be fair


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Hanging out with friends today has been awesome. It would be great if I lived near all of these friends (support) still. I didnt realize how much that helps until i was here. just having all these distractions is great. That will be the tough part of the new move, no local support.
> 
> Stbxw and I have started severing all ties in prep for the move out this week. Very strange to know that you are prepping to never talk again to the person you have spent more than a decade with. I have to respect that this is what she wants though.
> 
> One sentence of selfishness time: I just wish she had to start at square one like I do, rather than having her next relationship already started ... Would be fair


You have been given the gift of working through this, for real.

You see when we rugsweep, and shift blame, we are bound to re-live our mistakes.

Things with she and posOM have a snowballs chance in hell of working out in the long run.

But that's not your problem, now is it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> I just wish she had to start at square one like I do, rather than having her next relationship already started ..



She'll be , don't worry . Such a relationships doesn't last long !

Spun is right , why do you care ??

I have a question for you too :

If she cheated on you, why do you think she'll be faithful to him ?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost

You will be better off starting from a clean slate with your future relationship.

She is a cheater. POSOM is with a cheater. Their relationship is doomed.

So stop fretting about her having someone to move onto.

You ending your relationship like a man.

And you can look in the mirror everyday knowing you are a good man.

Good things will happen for you after this mess is over.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks guys for the continued advice. 

I guess I care a bit because I care about what happens to her. I hate watching her be self destructive and I know in a week I won't even know if she needed help. No, is not my problem, it's just hard to stop caring. I'm sure not seeing her will start to sever that thinking. 

I don't really think they'll work out, but who knows. I didn't think we would ever be in this situation either. I've got to work on being a bit more suspicious... Not horribly so, just more than the 0% I have been.

I have definitely tried to do things that allow me to maintain my self respect and come out of this knowing that I stayed a good person throughout. 

I'm just not sure that women want a nice guy. I hate to try to learn to be a jerk and to have problems like these guys do, but that seems to be even what women my age (ie my stbxw) want. There is such a thing as too nice, and I know I've always been that.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> 1) the saddest part of divorce is realizing that you no longer have the right to know if the other person is ok.


The best part of divorce is realizing that you no longer have to be concerned if the other person is okay.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Touché. 

That said, I'm pretty sure I'll always want her to be ok. I may get to the point one day where it doesn't bother me if I don't know, but if I found out something happened to her I think I'd be sad no matter how long from now it is. 

Today should be interesting. I'll see a lot of the same people she saw on her work trip last week ... A lot of mutual friends. Of course I heard that she had been telling them that *I* left her (wtf, lol) so we'll see if I get approached by people wondering what's up (they've known us as a couple for years) . If that happens I don't think I'll be able to hold my tongue. I'll end up telling them what she did. 

Hopefully I'll be so busy with work that I won't have time for most of them. That would be nice as I really don't want to spend my day talking about this (that's why I come here!). 

I will see the girl I have a huge crush on today. There is no future there, but it just felt so good when such an amazing, funny, beautiful young woman wanted to spend so much time with me (and seemed flirty!) a few weeks ago. I hope I can find someone like her where I move to. 

Hope y'all have a great day today.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

LIS, your story is so much like mine. My STBXW returned yesterday from her thanksgiving trip. I was SO much better and less stressed when she was gone, slept great etc. Last night i was up until 1am, cause she really P%ssed me off. 


Anyway, i handed her the divorce filing, told her it was her birthday present. She had no comment. Like your STBXW, she will be a mess in a year, so sad. Sometimes, like you, I feel like I am almost trying to save her from herself. She is destroying her world- once its final, i will tell her friends, family, and some day I will tell my kids. But she has to go ruin her own life...she is an adult woman. But I sure as heck am NOT going to give her the power to ruin my life.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> Like your STBXW, she will be a mess in a year, so sad.


Why do you feel sad for a cheater that betrayed you and your kids ? 


@Lost



> I will see the girl I have a huge crush on today.


Lots of people here disagree with me, but that is a good sign in my opinion ! 

If you're ( starting ) thinking about another woman means you're moving forward . GREAT job !


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Just sad to see someone self destruct is all--to throw away all that once mattered so much.

I agree BM, looking and thinking about other women is good! i certainly plan to get back on the horse soon...quickest way to forget someone is to get someone new!! even if just to date....(not looking longterm at ALL). I have no plans to sit around feeling sorry for myself and pining on her!!


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Garry2012 said:


> Just sad to see someone self destruct is all--to throw away all that once mattered so much.
> 
> I agree BM, looking and thinking about other women is good! i certainly plan to get back on the horse soon...quickest way to forget someone is to get someone new!! even if just to date....(not looking longterm at ALL). I have no plans to sit around feeling sorry for myself and pining on her!!


Thank you for that ! Here allot of people disagree with me when I said the same but I really believe that's the quickest way to forget and move on.

You don't need to lie or to give false promises to the new gal , you can just find a hooker , have a fun , have a woman intention and appreciation and that will make you feel great .

If you're mentally OK with it, go ahead . I'm seeing a gal and I love it . Feel needed , appreciated , adored ... .


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

BigMac said:


> You don't need to lie or to give false promises to the new gal , *you can just find a hooker *, have a fun , have a woman intention and appreciation and that will make you feel great.


Are. You. Serious?


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

BigMac said:


> Feel needed , appreciated , adored ... .


And that's the rub.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Yeah...the whole aura around a divorce is all so negative....she is negative, the environment is negative, thoughts are all so negative. Just need SOMETHING to look at in a positive light.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

It's like a vaccum or a leech. I dread having to date again more than losing her. I guess that's a good thing or at least I hope.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> Are. You. Serious?


Yes I'm ! 

can you please tell me what you think is wrong about the " friend with benefits " when both parties agree on it ?


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

BigMac said:


> Yes I'm !
> 
> can you please tell me what you think is wrong about the " friend with benefits " when both parties agree on it ?


Nothing - at all, as long as the understanding is there.

Not for me, but whatevs.

But...

A hooker?

Now, I'm not one to judge anyone based on their profession.

But, really?

A hooker?


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

OK , my bad ! I should say hooker ! 

I mean - " no strings attached " ... "relationship ".

Both agrees - we like each other ( the physical attraction ) and we both don't want to jump into a relationship ! 

Just go out for drinks/dinner , then to bed and then cya next time.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

BigMac said:


> OK , my bad ! I should say hooker !
> 
> I mean - " no strings attached " ... "relationship ".
> 
> ...


Haha.

I'd like to suggest you refrain from referring to said ladies as "hookers".

The chances of a next time would be slim to none.

Well...that, and it's largely possible you'd get kicked in the nuts.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> Haha.
> 
> I'd like to suggest you refrain from referring to said ladies as "hookers".
> 
> ...


Ha ha , Up used the word " hooker " and I though is OK 

I'm sure if I tell her I called her hooker she won't like me anymore haha .


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

BigMac said:


> Ha ha , Up used the word " hooker " and I though is OK
> 
> I'm sure if I tell her I called her hooker she won't like me anymore haha .


:rofl:

Up thought you were referring to a prostitute - a legit hooker.

A friend with benefits is just that.

I promise you, you will not receive a single other benefit, if you call 'em a hooker.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

I've thought about this. As much as I feel like I'm dying for sex and it would make a lot of my loneliness and desires go away. I think at this point it would be far to easy to get attached in a FWB situation. As far as a hooker it would be far to easy to get attached to a disease. :nono:


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## coachman (Jan 31, 2012)

Or...call her a hooker, get kicked in the nuts and report back here for our amusement. :smthumbup:


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> As far as a hooker it would be far to easy to get attached to a disease. :nono:


Diet Coke, meet monitor.

:rofl:

My IT department is going to be pissed.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Just tell them some jerk shook up your soda can! I like to randomly shake those things up in our company fridge since I don't drink soda. :FIREdevil:


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

What the heck? I have a busy day at work and cant check in and this thread comes unglued.  

Awesome, thanks for making me laugh guys. Hilarious! 

I'm all about having a date or just spending time with someone that is interested in me, but im definitely not ready for anything serious for a while yet. Would be nice to have some companionship though. 

I think I called a girl a hooker once... Not sure as the concussion I suffered afterwards has made that whole day a bit hazy. 

Was a good day seeing so many friends. I'm excited to be moving into a new office environment soon to make a whole new set of friends. Heard some things about what the stbxw is telling people (seriously how could she not expect this to get back to me) but entertainingly enough my friends have been setting the record straight for me. That's a good feeling. 

I was a little sad that a few people didn't stop by to see me, but I had a feeling those people wouldn't. I guess you always know where certain friends loyalties lie. 

Looking forward to a few more days hanging out with friends and colleagues ... Not looking forward to moving right when I get back. Can't decide how I feel about knowing I'll probably see the stbxw for less than 24 hrs over the course of the rest of my life (all of which later this week). Even with everything else, not sure how she can be ok with not seeing someone who was so important to her for more than a decade.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

When I referred to a Hooker.

I meant just that.

A Hooker.

Someone who you willingly go to (and they are fully aware) for sex and only sex.

What I was objecting to, and will continue to object to, is USING another human being to make yourself feel better when you fully intend to 'pump and dump'.

If they are not privy to the information, then that's despicable behavior.

Yet, we wonder why some people turn out the way they are.

Getting used for sex and then never hearing from that person again, could possibly carry onto the next relationship.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

@UP , If you're referring me then my answer is - NO

I don't use her for my games , in fact she was the one that approached me


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Spent the night with friends (at dinner/drinks) laughing and telling stories. Can't believe how therapeutic that was. Then went over to the nuthouse that is my best friend's place. She and her husband have 3 kids under 4 and uncle LIS (me) is a popular fellow over there. 

Had a great night and other than realizing how much I hate that I didn't get the chance to have my own family right now, didn't dwell on my situation once. 

Wish I could stay here, but I'm hopeful my new city/job will allow me to find more friends.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Lostinspace, 

I've joined in too late to offer you any personal advice here because I don't have enough time to sit down and read from pg.1, but what I can tell you will more than make make up for that.

*Living with your stbxW it's almost certain that you will be tested around every corner day and night. She's going to do anything and everything to avoid responsibility for her bringing on the divorce and cheating, so she will blame you for everything, project her problems onto you, possibly even starting fights to be used against you later on, temper tantrums, and even Oscar winning tears on command so she can play the victim.*

Don't you fall for any of this, you hear me! You may have lost her respect but that doesn't mean you can't get it back. No matter what don't let her pull you into another fight and be consitent n standing tall. It helps to think of her as a little girl trying to push your buttons after her "pwease daddy" attempts to sucker you into giving her what she wanted failed. Because you're holding her responsible for her bad actions now she's going to storm around until she learns you're not going to give in this time. Just stay strong and don't let her know she's getting to you because she will switch between flattery and punishing you before trying to seduce you and eventually use whatever fond memories you have of her when she was perfect as leverage...... ie do things my way and I will be sugary sweet to you again. DON'T BELIEVE THIS CRAP! If it does work it willl only be for a little while or until she feels comfortable enough to drop the act. 

Like I was told duing my divorce from an unstable woman....... "You're not a bad guy for finally standing up to her and telling her NO".


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks Nsweet.

I'm definitely trying to detach and have been doing better each week ... Especially the ones where I've been traveling for work. Seeing all my friends this week has been great. I even saw the girl I have a crush on from my meeting a few weeks ago. Looking forward to seeing her again in the am. If I'm lucky she'll be single about the time I'm ready to start dating again (whenever that will be) and I can start flying down here to see her  

I'm definitely working on moving on (not well at times) but I physically move out this weekend. Life should get so much better when I do. No more mind games, no more seeing the woman who looks and sounds like my wife ... But clearly isn't. 

I think I'll start a new thread next week to chronicle my journey in a new job, new town etc since I won't be "living with the stbxw" anymore. 

I hope everyone is doing well. Wish me luck tomorrow night and Thursday guys, as those will likely be the last two days I ever see her (which I can't help but feel sad about). I have a feeling those two days will be one hell of a roller coaster.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> If I'm lucky she'll be single about the time I'm ready to start dating again (whenever that will be) and I can start flying down here to see her


What does that mean ? 

You don't try to pick up a married woman right ?


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## ilou (Oct 25, 2012)

Sounds like some break up sex may come. Whether it happens or not, I hope you're emotionally prepared for it and stick to your guns. Good luck LIS.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

BigMac said:


> What does that mean ?
> 
> You don't try to pick up a married woman right ?


A) she isn't married, but does have a BF. AND

B) NO! I would never step in between someone else's relationship, no matter how much I like the girl. 

I haven't said a word to this girl about what I feel. She may sense is (it seems some women can) or she may not. What I was saying is that "if I'm lucky" she ends up single for some reason, at a point in my life where I'm ready to move on to try to date. 

*Ilou* - you mean break up sex with my wife? Other people have said that, but I don't see it. Why would she do anything with me when she has a new boy to fool around with this weekend? I don't think she'd "cheat" on the guy she's cheating with (hah).

No, I'm 99.9% sure she is totally disconnected and I won't hear from her again (except for divorce stuff) after this weekend. 

I'm not looking forward to going "home" this tonight. I've been doing so much better without having to see the stbxw. I almost feel like my life will get back on track one day when I'm not around her ... When I am around her I just miss her (ironic huh?). 

I'm sure Ill update before bed tonight. Who knows what crazy and/or upsetting thing I'll have to deal with when I get home.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

You're a great guy Lost


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

I agree withg the other's about not chasing after this girl with a BF and I'll tell you why. Even if she does breakup with him and you manage to get a little on the rebound, you're just going to be a rebound. Maybe you'll be around long enough to fall in love and wind up getting hurt again, but more than likely she'll kick you out just as soon as her bed gets warm again when she tells you something like "this is all moving too fast for me..... I need a break".

Also because you care about this girl...... it's kind of a **** move to move in on her when she's vulnerable and brokenhearted. You were once in that position of absolute despair and so it seems a little heartless not to learn from your lessons and let her get over it before approaching. Let a couple knuckleheads give it a shot and blow it before you step in and be the strong husband type she's looking for. And trust me I've been there in both situations and the dumpee and with a brokenhearted girl, and sex with someone who is painfully depressed and clingy is no fun. You'll end up feeling really good for rescuing her and then feel really creeped out when you can't get a moment of peace because she's afraid of saying or doing something to push you away.

C'mon, dude you're old enough to understand you don't play these kinds of games. Let the dust settle and then take her out and go from there. Just know that if this girl means anything to you know you could end up blowing any chances of a future friendship by simply kissing her. Just so you're aware once you go after that you risk losing everything.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Ummm, ya'll must not be understanding me at all. To clarify, I am NOT chasing this girl. I am enjoying the brief time we spent together as coworkers and such (today was my last day there) and love how she made me feel by just being her awesome self and giving me attention. We weren't even flirting (unless it was in some way only women understand). She makes me feel good just by being around. Don't see how that is bad. 

She did give me her cell and email today when I left though. Again "if I'm lucky" one day this girl and I will both be at a point in our lives where we could go on a date. 

Now ----- for what I actually logged on to post-------

I had a great last day of work. Was mentally prepped to see the wife two more days ... Before probably never seeing her again. The I got on the plane to come home (although if I only lived here a month an a half, and half of that was a lie, is this really home?)... And then my premonition from my post above from this morning came true: 

"Who knows what crazy and/or upsetting thing I'll have to deal with..." 

Got a text from the stbxw that she went ahead and left for somewhere for work and would stay there and then go straight to see her bf ... Ie I would never see her again (she didn't come right out and say that part). So I'd been prepping myself all week for 36 more hours with her ... And it turned out to be 0 more. 

Why does that bother me so much????? I didn't think I wanted to see her one last time. I guess I did. I was really upset earlier. It still hurts now. I wonder if she didn't want to be around cause it would be painful of her too .. Or because she just didn't care. 

Two more days of posting here and then on Sat I'll start a new thread as I won't be living with her anymore. I'll be two states away.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Hmmm....... So she gave you her cell AND her email. And she makes you feel super special and tingly inside with how she hangs on your every word. Gee nothing wrong with that, EXCEPT you can't wait to f*ck her. You said it yourself more or less in your own words. You want her but, you don't want to break them up, but you'll be there when they do, but we misunderstood you, but you still want her, but but but. "If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry Christmas".

If you're going to have an affair or cheat with her the least you could do it admit it to yourself! You took the phone number and the email address, which puts you in the danger zone unless you feel comfortable with her boyfriend and putting yourself in as the third wheel when he's there. Unless you made your intentions painfully clear, you're on your way to an emotional affair with this girl...... and you can deny it all you want and play the "I'm a good guy, I would never do that card" but that door is open and you can't be trusted with her. You're going to probe her for information and keep planning on seducing her into a relationship with you just waiting for her relationship to go through a conflict so you can swoop in and get your girl. And really that is the worst type of friend because you don't care about her enough to leave her alone, you just want more and more until you get your needs met.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Holy crap man. 

You have no idea what is going on in my head or the type of person I am. I iwould NEVER break someone up, or plan for it. I think she is sweet and nice and she makes me feel like I can one day move on. I have no interest in sleeping with her (but you put it so much more eloquently).

I live 1000 miles from this girl. I'm sorry if me having an innocent crush on someone somehow bothers you, but I have no interest in dating ANYONE right now, in case you couldn't tell that by every other post I've made about how screwed up I am right now ... Or the entire REST of my post above. 

I sorry me enjoying the company of someone to help get my mind off the horrible things my wife is doing to me bothers you, but kindly refrain from posting on my pages from now on. 

This convo with you is over.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Good morning TAMers. I hope everyone is doing ok so far today. 

So today is T-2 days from me moving (actually I will likely start the drive tomorrow) and I start my new job on Monday. I'm both excited about the new job, and terrified about how much is changing. To compare next week to one month and 10 days ago:

1) new state and city that I've never even been to before
2) new job in a new industry
3) don't know anyone at the new place
4) single 
5) living alone for the first time except for 1.5 months at college before I met her
6) all the other stuff I'm forgetting! 

Crazy. I wish I understood why life has taken me this way, heck even a clue would be nice, but I hope it works out ok in the end and that the best years of my life aren't behind me. 

Still struggling a bit with knowing she decided to leave on her trip 2 days early so she wouldn't have to see me when I got back from mine. I guess I just thought after spending more than a decade together she would want to see me one last time too. 

Oh well, other than the divorce, maybe that means this is the last time she can hurt me. 

On Sat, if I have Internet, I'll start a new thread since I won't be living with her and this one has gotten so long. And it seems right too, since I'll be writing a new chapter in my life. If anyone an spare a good thought or prayer, send them my way over the next two days (not the best place to ask for good vibes huh?!)


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## ilou (Oct 25, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> On Sat, if I have Internet, I'll start a new thread since I won't be living with her and this one has gotten so long. And it seems right too, since I'll be writing a new chapter in my life. If anyone an spare a good thought or prayer, send them my way over the next two days (not the best place to ask for good vibes huh?!)


I don't pray to any being but I *DO* wish you luck! Look forward to seeing you turn the page LIS.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks ilou.  

Packing up the last of my life with her is so surreal. Definitely not taking any pics or overt reminders though.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Hang tough LIS. You are making progress.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Lost , you may not been conscious about it but flirting innocently with her may push her to break up with her BF. 

See yours and mine cases , what happens :

Bored , start looking around , find flirting and interesting guy(s) ... ummmmm , I'm cute, I'm needed , I can get better then him, Live is to short ... etc 

And then ILYBNLWY .... you see what I mean .

My advice is - do 180 to her too . No contact . If she contact you 3 months saying yes, I'm single then ... you know better.


as for this :



> Got a text from the stbxw that she went ahead and left for somewhere for work and would stay there and then go straight to see her bf ... Ie I would never see her again (she didn't come right out and say that part). So I'd been prepping myself all week for 36 more hours with her .



You understand she planned especially , right ? You'll say WHY !

Just to piss you off because she is INSECURE ! That is all .
She want you to be miserable because she think it is your fault only for the broken marriage . 
I wouldn't do anything. Just leave and NOT leave her a good buy letter , NOTHING . Just leave and let her think she got her way.

Remember what I predicted you , within 6 months you'll hear from her


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

It wasn't even flirting. It was just me feeling good knowing that there are such great girls out there. I was getting a bit bitter before chatting with her and this really helped me realize that I can, and hopefully one day will move on. 

You are right. I know the stbxw did this to elicit an emotional response from me. I don't plan to leave a note other than one detailing what I took that she'll have to replace (literally just a list). I wish she had been mature enough to be here to see what I was packing (its not like we are fighting or being un-civil), but I guess this is easier. 

Definitely wont hear from her again except for divorce stuff. You'd have to know her to understand. She is incapable of going back n what she tells people and she had told too many at this point (even going so far as to tell some that I LEFT HER) .

Bah


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Anyone is capable of going / coming back. The more deceptions made to further reinforce their denial, more likely a return will occur.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

I hope mine doesnt REALLY think of coming back...not before i have a new GF. I think she just may, after 6 months of her so craved 'freedom'.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

If it happens I hope it happens well after I move on. I'm not sure if I am strong enough yet.... And I have friends and family who may literally murder me if I took her back again. 

I hope if it ever happens, I'm in the shower and my new gf/fiancée/wife answers my phone...


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Garry-I used this as an example to a couple of youngsters who came to me after their first love devestated them. We work 40 hours a week. What if you could work 32 and still be paid 40. I dropped the hours to 24, 16, 8. Then once the person is used to getting 40 hr pay for 8 hours, they get sloppy, bored......see where I'm headed? They take advantage and seek new challanges. Everyone loves a new job, a new relationship. That wears off after the first time your boss chews you out or when you have the first huge fight. Then the person hits the reset button. Many times it is too late.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Yeah, that is my thinking too LIS. IF the woman i married returned, i dont think i could walk away...yet. Everyday I get closer to that. Once she moves out, I hope to make greater strides in getting away from her. Once i am ready and get a new GF, I'll be good.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

The fact that she arranged her trip like this speaks differently but you'll see . She just wanna hurt you because this is only think she can do to you know.
And 180 is working very well in your case 

Keep doing it and you'll see . She can't stand you don't crying and begging her to come back . She hates you're doing well and moving forward , AWAY from her ! She can't control you and make you feel like crap.

You're in a better shape then her for sure .


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Chuck - interesting theory. I wonder what the percentages are?

Garry - fortunately, for me , I don't see it ever happening, so I really don't have to worry about being strong. Then again, if it does, I have a great support network who would kick my ass if I put myself back in this situation again. 

Big - thanks man. I am doing pretty well most days. She, however, is doing fantastic. With her chatting on the phone with her bf every night, and seeing him every weekend (and she has some supportive friends too), she is cool and calm. Seriously, she will never see the man she spent 12 years of her life (almost half) with and it doesn't bother her at all. 

I wish I was doing that well. I'm doing ok with it, but I do still care, she doesn't. And in that, she wins.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost

You have my prayers pal.

And you are too young to realize this but with D there are no winners.

Both of you have lost a part of yourselves that the other takes with them.

But if you work real hard and be honest, the next woman you find could bring that missing part back to you.

Keep looking lost, she is out there......

HM64


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Something we all hope for HM64.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks HM. i do believe that, although if she loses, I do think she knows it. 

Found out that she was lying again today about leaving for that work stuff. She went to see him earlier than expect. Don't know why that bothers me, I knew she was seeing him this weekend. I guess I'm just hurt that rather than see me one last time she went to see him. 

I thought we had agreed that there was no reason to lie at this point. Maybe this time I'll finally learn my lesson and stop trusting anything she says.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Ask her he no questions and she will tell you no lies!


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

That sucks loner. I've been in about the same schedule. Mid Oct to this weekend. 

So life is not being nice to me right now. The movers are screwing me with a broken down truck, meaning they can't pick me up tomorrow. Of course my apartment can't meet me on the weekend ... And I start work on Monday. 

So it looks like I'll have to ask the stbxw to cut short her week with her bf to come home to manage the movers so I can head over tomorrow. Seriously. My life sucks.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> So it looks like I'll have to ask the stbxw to cut short her week with her bf to come home to manage the movers so I can head over tomorrow.


BIG mistake ! DON"T ask her to do that ! She'll be negative and I'm sure she'll love to make you feel like crap. Find other solution !


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Don't have one that I can find. I have to leave tomorrow.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Why can you not stay 1 more day ?


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Because I have to sign paperwork and pick up keys for my apartment before the weekend.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Bad idea to ask her !

Bad idea moving on Friday and start a new job on Monday !


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Was supposed to be thurs or Friday, but the truck broke down. And let's face it, I wanted to get the hell out of here. And I had to travel to my old job till wed. 

My luck sucks


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Oh My ... no a friend around ?

Also your X sound weird to me . My updated my resume today ( she is good on that ) and even asked me if I need other help. Yours sound a MadMan holly molly .

Get out of there and never watch back !


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Nope, remember my X moved me to this town just two weeks before I found out about her affair. So I've had no time to make fiends here yet.

Just a crappy situation. 

Good deal on your résumé. A new job is a good start to a new life I think.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks Loner. I guess that's what I have to do. 

I am looking forward to my restart. The question is wether she'll text or call so I can ask her.she is having too much fun with the bf I'm sure.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I'm going to be very blunt dude....keep away from her. If she was on fire, do not urinate on her. You see how she cares about you. Oh by the notion she will be a'calling you.........I'm 41 and I've seen it done enough, if I had $1 every time I saw it.....I would own 50% of Florida.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Thanks Loner. I guess that's what I have to do.
> 
> I am looking forward to my restart. The question is wether she'll text or call so I can ask her.she is having too much fun with the bf I'm sure.


You don't have a care in the world with what she is up to...;-).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks Chuck, good advise, I know. And spun - I think I got the kick in the pants I really needed. 

You know how they say sometime you don't get what you want, you get what you need?

Well, about 3:30 am she texted me back (I've realized I don't care if she ever find this, so details be damned), stating that she couldn't help me out by coming home a bit early so that she could be here with the movers and I could head to my new place/city.

I just replied something about seeing how today went and figuring it out (one sentence). She then texted back how the alcohol she had with dinner was why she was still awake (I was awake because I always wake up the first time at 3:30 these days). I didn't reply to that. 

As for getting what I needed: I realized, even in a jam, to help me get out of her life she couldn't be bothered to help me out at all. More than a decade together and I'm not even worth one last nicety.

I've realized she has become a shallow, selfish, cold person who is only interested in trying to relive her young 20s that she "missed" by being with me. 

I don't like this new person, let alone love them. I miss my wife, but this definitely isn't her. I guess I got the wake up call I needed this morning.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

LIS, yeah, you HAVE to stop expecting them to care. I fall into it now and then, especially when I fire off a text and get zero response (which I rarely do). Yesterday I got sucked in (it was a very angry day for me) and texted her some fired up emails about her cheating on me etc. She didnt respond for 3 hours, then just said "can you pick up some coffee creamer on the way home?". 

Today, I am back....back to expecting nothing, and OK with it.

To me and maybe you, we have to accept that they just don't care...and the more you emotion we have, is just a waste of our effort and time.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Agreed. At least I haven't shown it to her in a long time (week or two). Gary, its ok to still care (you would be like them if you didn't, and who wants to be so shallow?) ... Just work on not showing it. 

I keep it to myself (mostly) by remembering that I am *giving* them something when I show it, and will get nothing in return.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

I know, but i need to do a better job at venting to friends and family who actually care about me and maybe even listen. I just get all worked up when I pour my emotion and frustration into a text or conversation, and get ignored....then Im all fired up for the rest of the day.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

To a degree this is a chess game. Be patient and show no regrets or heartbreak. Nothing wrong with them knowing it bothers you, it's human. But also it is like a boxing match, through the first five rounds they are throwing punch after punch. By the seventh round they show fatigue. By the tenth they're spent. Patience


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Yeah, as many of us maybe, my head and my heart are in a constant battle. My brain needs to prevail, but sometimes I let my heart get involved too much.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

You're human. Example-had I been the one to pull this with STBXW, trust me, she would have said don't let door hit you in the a$$ on the way out. And I would expect that. I have pretty much done the same thing. The other night she came by the house and brought me a pizza. I ate it and left the room. I have started dating someone, nothing serious at all, and a week ago I got in at 5am and she was up on the couch. Said she was letting the dogs out....wasn't a work day for her. I'm going on with my life and as much as I hate to say this....even if she throws up a white flag before the D is final....I think it should be gone through with. Just to show....this is what you did and these are the results. Maybe after the D if she wants to talk, we can see. But running the roads, not caring about my well being and just walking out on all those years......the final verdict has probably sounded.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I'm also committed to this action now. She showed no remorse all the way up to moving day (even going for far as to go see her posOM while I am trying to move out). 

She had her chance. I'm not perfect, but I loved her and would have never done anything to hurt her. The same obviously wasn't true for her. I guess I was right back in the day when we used to have the "I love you more" fun arguments. 

Still ticked off that I'm trying to find a solution to this mover mess and she couldn't be bothered to come home a day early from the posOM's place to get me moved out. Now I have to wait here at least another day or two while the movers get their **** together.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Yeah, your are just where I am too Chuck. I would have gladly taken a bullet for her, but after all this...I would MUCH rather take it for someone else. The bell has tolled for me, at least at this point, and I think she knows it. I don't look back well, so once D is final...and kids are pretty well adjusted...hasta la vista. 

Like you said, I am taking the punches now, but I am confident that while I will have to take a couple rounds, she will have a LONG time in the ring taking them when the dust settles. Even if she doesnt regret the D (which I think she really will), she will always have the shame over her head to her family, our kids, and anyone who knows us , that she had the EA/PA that broke us apart.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> I guess I was right back in the day when we used to have the "I love you more" fun arguments.


oh boy, yeah, we used to have these too....and now they seem rather comical to me....maybe in a sad way, but funny none the less....


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Ok seriously. The fates/God/karma/something is seriously screwing with me. I just want to be out of this house and its up in the air when the movers will be able to get me. 

With everything else, why does this part have to be such a PiTa?

Would be nice if the stbxw could pretend to be a halfway decent human being and come home a day early to be with the movers so I could head over to my new town now. But, no, hanging out with the posOM (which she can do every other weekend) takes precedence. 

I'm glad I'm finally angry.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Good be angry. 

But why is 99% of your posts focused on her? That's not helping you in any way, in fact its bringing you back to square one each and every time you focus on her instead of your own life.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Didn't realize I was. Thoughts was looking at it through the lens of how it affected me. 

Hmm ...


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Grr... Doesn't look like movers will make it tomorrow either now. 

*sigh* I just want out of here at this point. Hopefully they can get me very early in the am on Sunday and ican still make my first da of the new job. This sucks.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Grr... Doesn't look like movers will make it tomorrow either now.
> 
> *sigh* I just want out of here at this point. Hopefully they can get me very early in the am on Sunday and ican still make my first da of the new job. This sucks.


Can you take some clothes and tooth brush with you just to get you started ?


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

If they can't get me out of here VERY early Sunday morning (by 7am), I'll have to just shoot over there and let my stbxw handle the move on Monday. 

Just frustrated that this move is being such a pain when I'm just trying to get myself out of this situation. Was hoping this would go easy.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost

Patience. Your new, easier, better life will be starting soon.

I know you are angry. I know you are hurt.

Just realize she is so lost in her own sauce that she does not even conceive of the disrespect she has shown you today.

Just remember this; your life will be better soon.

Patience.

HM64


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks HM. I know things will get better. 

I'm just fighting with my self internally. If this is what is supposed to happen, why can't it just be easy to at least get out? 

Can't wait for this string of "surprises" to be over. Cancer, best man of my wedding passing and the miscarriage of the child we tried so hard for ...then her leaving. 2012 has been horrible. Come on 2013.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Wow Loner, that is horrible. Half of me is glad my stbxw and I didn't end up with children ... Because while i have trouble working up anger on my own behalf, I have no trouble working it up on behalf of my family. The other half of me realizes that I was *so* close to being a dad, and I would give anything to have made that work. 

Hell, I don't think the stbxw and I would be where we are if it weren't for the problem with getting pregnant. She blames herself for it and I really think it has messed her up. Like I had said, as far as I knew, we were very happy before. Her timeline even matches this pretty closely, with some minor rewriting of history.

I hope you can focus on the good that came out of your marriage - your daughter. I just feel like I wasted a decade in mine.

If I have ANY good luck at all, the movers will be able to make it here late today to move me. That way I can drive to the new town VeRY early tomorrow (thinking leave here at 6am) so I can do the apartment paperwork, iron my work clothes, do a test drive to the new job and still be there when the movers come in.

I really need this to go my way today. I hate that I missed the new job's Christmas party (tonight). It would have been great to meet people in a social setting.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Theloner said:


> My brother in misery, don't despair because things will improve. I for one can relate to your pain. I have had a shocking 2012 myself. When we think too much, nothing seems to work the way we want it to. Even the simplest things. Let me share with you a brief moment I had yesterday with stbx.
> I was working yesterday when I received a call from her. She asked me to take my daughter this weekend. I normally I do starting Saturday. This time however she wanted me to have her from Friday night. Well I for one no longer have a car. I live 60 miles away from the matrimonial home. I can and have to walk to and from work or take transit. I work 10 plus hour days and she knows this. I make a decent buck and she sure knows that. Anyhow, she only works part time and said the reason she needed me to take my daughter Friday was because she was going to a Gala her work was holding on Saturday
> I agreed to take her, my daughter is 13. So wife says she will drive into Toronto and meet me at a Subway station. I told her my daughter would not have much of me Saturday because, I'm working 10 hours. This didn't matter to her, seems she just wanted to pawn her off for her own benefit. Fine but the woman is becoming more and more aggravating each time we speak. So after my shift, I travel to the subway and pick up my daughter, first thing the stbx says, I need gas money, then she says she needs money to attend the Gala, her time out. Then see says, she wants me to return my daughter Sunday night. I know she is going out to party. I know she used my daughter to ask for money and I sure know she has no regard for me.
> so as I write this, I'm getting ready for work, my daughter is sleeping and I won't see her for about 11hrs. The moral of my story is simple, our soon to be "x's" will do everything they can to screw with us. They become worse then your worse enemy in some cases. All I can do is think for my daughter. Yet I know the stbx is only thinking about making sure I suffer in every possible way.



Don't tell me you gave her money !!!


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Arrrghhhh. Movers are at the repair shop AGAIN. They still think they can load me at 6 am tomorrow, (was thurs, then fri, then tonight) ... But I have to be GONE from here by 8am to have a chance of making it to the new town in time to get my keys. 

Let alone get ready for my first day at the new job on Mon. It kills me that this is being so difficult. I just need a little luck or for things to just go as planned and not worse for one freaking day. Is that too much to ask?


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Everything will be fine Lost ! Don't stress out about the small things ! Is not worth it !


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Be pushy with movers and make it happen Lost.

And while the pregnancy might be what caused both of you pain, all she had to do was turn to you for comfort, for grieving.

But she chose a different path.

And thus forced you to choose a different path as well.

Stop dwelling on what if's or what was's!

Focus on what is right in front of you.

Today is the day your new life starts........


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Lost - you'll make it work with the movers and the first day of work. Her actions are revealing her true nature. You are lucky you don't have kids involved. It will help you move past this much faster especially with the distance.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks guys. I'm pushing the movers as much as possible. Fortunately I deal itch with contracts for a living so I'm pretty used to being tough, but fair/nice, when I have to. 

If they can't be here and done loading by 8am tomorrow, I'll have to have the stbxw deal with it Monday. I really don't want her involved based on her comments the other day. I'm still feeding off that anger and I feel like leaving here angry is probably the best way for this split to happen. 

Still can't believe after so many years she wouldn't want to at least say goodbye. I mean I hate when my friends leave somewhere far away and I don't get to say bye, this just seems like something anyone would want to do, especially since I've never been anything but nice to her (too nice apparently). 

Lol, just got pictures delivered to her. I wonder who they are of. Lol the temptation to open this up. I wonder if I should open it and give one to my lawyer. God knows I know what must be inside.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> Lol, just got pictures delivered to her. I wonder who they are of. Lol the temptation to open this up. I wonder if I should open it and give one to my lawyer. God knows I know what must be inside.


She is mean and don't wanna help you ? Here your chance to get her back !

Open and check, if they're with the posOM trow them away and pretend you never saw anything delivered


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I know what they are. I don't even need to check. At the end of the day though, it doesn't matter. 

The only reason I'm tempted to open them is to give one to my lawyer, but I don't know that "evidence" like that does any old in divorce these days. 

And on another note ... Wth, why wouldn't she wait to do this until next week when I'm gone or have it delivered to work. This along with other things she's done make it seem like she likes to get caught.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Because she know you know what is inside and want to piss you off , that is it !


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Lost - what a crappy way to finish this. I feel for you.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Screw that.

Take the pictures with you , open them later and burn them.

That is what you should do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Screw that.
> 
> Take the pictures with you , open them later and burn them.
> 
> ...



:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

It's like the angel and the devil on my shoulders. I really keep saying, "I know what's there, so it there any point in punishing her for it? What does it really matter, especially when she is off with him right now anyway"


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> It's like the angel and the devil on my shoulders. I really keep saying, "I know what's there, so it there any point in punishing her for it? What does it really matter, especially when she is off with him right now anyway"


She is punishing you all the time .

You try to nicen your way to her .

Imagine she was in your shoes and she know posOW pics are inside , would she give it to you or she would burn them ?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

BigMac said:


> She is punishing you all the time .
> 
> You try to nicen your way to her .
> 
> Imagine she was in your shoes and she know posOW pics are inside , would she give it to you or she would burn them ?


I second HM burn them!:FIREdevil:


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

I'd probably make copies and hang them all over the office.

But, then again, some people call me a b1tch.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I left a message for my lawyer asking him if there was any reason he would want them. If not I think I'll just leave them be. At this point I'm still walking away from this knowing I've never knowingly done anything to hurt her or against her. 

Why end that streak now? I'm a nice guy and a good person, and to this point I'm leaving this marriage with that intact. 

I may never have anything else but knowing I did everything the right way.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I sure she was planning on taking on to her office anyway and since its a new job for her and I don't know anyone there, that wouldn't really affect her


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

So i may have texted her telling her that I knew what the pictures must be. She just replied that she won't open my mail so I shouldn't open hers. 

As if there was ever anything bad to find in my mail. 

I shouldn't have done it, but I finally lashed out as her a bit and called her a shallow selfish person and said I didn't know when she became this person. 

She's nothing like the girl I knew. That's what is scary, that I misjudged someone i spent so many years with so severely. 

I just need to be gone. I want someone who will treat me like I treat them and will tell me if I ever screw up. I hope I find that before I'm too old to have a chance for a family.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> So i may have texted her telling her that I knew what the pictures must be. She just replied that she won't open my mail so I shouldn't open hers.


Again , you're trying to nice your way back to her ! 

Why are you doing this ?

Did you expect after you text that her answer will be - hunny , I just dumped the MF posOM, stay where you're , I'm coming and I'll jump in your arms and will have sex 3 days non stop - ???

That will NEVER happen , even she thinks "bad" things about you right now !


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

No, I didn't think that at all. I just went through this whole thing without pointing out how horrible she was being, how counter to her old personality, that I felt like I wanted to make her look in the mirror before I walked out the door. 

Basically, when I get in the car tomorrow I don't plan to ever talk to her again (other than through lawyer). That is sad in a way, buti don't see the need to keep the ties alive so that she can play games with me anymore.

I know it's a roller coaster, and I'm not off it yet. But I'm ready to get off ... Now if only it would stop moving long enough for me to exit.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

I think you shouldn't text her and just leave the pics in the mail.

And yes, if you don't contact her that will be the fully 180 and in that case remember my prediction !


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I remember your prediction. Won't happen though. You'd have to know my wife to understand.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> I remember your prediction. Won't happen though. You'd have to know my wife to understand.



See my threats posts yesterday  

My X is stubborn too but today she said twice " I'm not ready to trow the pictures away " ... and all the other stuff .

You'll be surprised sometimes .


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Mac is right. This goes back to impulse decisions and people being too hard headed to admit any wrongdoing. See people who can not even be true to themselves have a hard time being true to others. Picture looking never bothers me (thank God) because it was proof, at one time there was something special. Before the two in the picture met, nothing was built. It was built from nothing. Be proud of what it once was. Rome fell, Constantinople fell. Can it be re-built....yes but it will be in your court once you move past everything. I hope this makes sense


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

It does. But i definitely regret the 12 years we had together. I could have spent those with the right person. If I could have anything, I would be ready and would meet the right girl 6 months from now. 

I don't want my wife back. What kind of life would that be? My two best friends are girls, so I never worried about my wife's male friends. Now I would have to. I don't want a life of suspicion and memories of betrayal, it wouldn't be fair to anyone in the relationship. 

I just want life to go on. Just don't want to have missed my opportunity for a family. I could never forgive her for that.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> It does. But* i definitely regret the 12 years we had together. I could have spent those with the right person*. If I could have anything, I would be ready and would meet the right girl 6 months from now.
> 
> I don't want my wife back. What kind of life would that be? My two best friends are girls, so I never worried about my wife's male friends. Now I would have to. I don't want a life of suspicion and memories of betrayal, it wouldn't be fair to anyone in the relationship.
> 
> I just want life to go on. Just don't want to have missed my opportunity for a family. I could never forgive her for that.


This type of thinking will hold you back.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

How so?


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

People who are unhappy in their marriages often speak of feeling trapped. They yearn to be free from the tension, loneliness, constant arguments or deafening silence but worry that divorce may not be the right decision. After all, they took their marital vows seriously. They don't want to hurt their spouses. They don't want to hurt their children. They panic at the thought of being alone. They worry about finances. They fear the unknown.

Yet, the idea of living in a loveless marriage starts to feel like a death sentence. They feel caught between a rock and a hard place…trapped in a life of misery. Over time, many of these people slowly convince themselves that the benefits of leaving their marriages vastly outweigh the benefits of staying. They tell themselves, "Kids are resilient, they'll bounce back," or "In the long run, this will be better for everyone," or "Sure, it will be hard for a while, but change is good for people, or "Anything has got to be better than this." It's not until they embark on the path to divorce and begin to piece their lives back together that they discover the real price they paid for their so-called "freedom". Regretfully, this painful discovery comes too late. They have fallen into the divorce trap.

The following are two letters from people who stumbled into the divorce trap:

Dear Michele,

I have been searching the internet for the last two weeks looking for help or information about my problem. I was married for 18 years and we have three terrific children. I instigated a divorce. It was final six months ago. Now, I am having second thoughts. I miss my "family" so much. And, of all things, I really miss my husband, ex, that is. If I could just talk him into it, we might be able to work on our relationship and make our family whole again.

I never imagined that I would feel this way because, for years, I was so miserable in my marriage. I thought that once I got out, we all would be better off. My ex and I would stop fighting, and we would all be free from the stress and tension in our home. At first, it was a relief to get away from all the arguing. However, I could not anticipate how quickly the feelings of relief would turn to pain. The look on my children's faces when they talk to their dad on the phone or when they come back from weekend visits has been more than I can bear. I knew they would be sad, but I had no idea how deeply this would affect them.

What surprises me the most tough, is the fact that I find myself thinking about my ex all the time. He is far from perfect, but I now realize I could have made more of an effort to learn how to deal with the things that irritated or hurt me. Instead, I just shut down and shut him out. Now I am haunted by the fact that my divorce destroyed not only a marriage, but a family. I am desperate to know whether there are others out there who regretted their decision to divorce and somehow managed to make their families whole again. I pray to God that the answer to this question is "Yes." Can you help me?

Joan

Dear Michele,

I feel like a fool writing to you, but I don't know where else to turn. After 24 years of marriage, I told my wife I wanted a divorce. I had been pretty unhappy in our marriage for a long time. Our sex drives were totally incompatible. Whenever I approached her, she never seemed to be in the mood. At first I thought I was doing something wrong, but after a while I got sick of all of her excuses. I felt angry all the time. Plus, she constantly nagged about everything. I'm a hard worker and a good provider for my family, but nothing I did pleased her. I dreaded coming home at night.

Then my life changed. I met a younger woman at work who respected me and seemed attracted to me. Although I never thought I would be the kind of guy who would have an affair, after spending hours together working on late night projects, the temptation just became too great. This really threw me because, for the first time in a very long time, I felt alive. She was really fun to be with and she couldn't keep her hands off me! What a difference from my wife! Well, that really turned my world upside down. I started paying more attention to body- working out more, eating better and caring about my appearance. Although my wife suspected something, I kept my affair secret.

Eventually, I realized I couldn't live this lie any longer, so I filed for divorce. My wife was devastated. She begged me to stay. She tried to explain away my feelings- insisting that I was in the midst of a midlife crisis or that I was depressed and not thinking clearly. I thought she was nuts and couldn't wait to get out on my own. I knew the kids would survive and I believed our marriage had died long ago.

The divorce became final a year ago during which time I have made some painful discoveries. As trite as it sounds, the grass really isn't greener on the other side. It didn't take long before I lost my infatuation with the other woman. She was sexy but extremely immature. Besides sex, we had nothing in common. I started hating her messy habits and loud music. We had no history together. We didn't bring children into the world. I started missing my wife.

But the sad ending to this story is that my wife has moved and wants nothing more to do with me. If I had approached her six or eight months ago, she might have been receptive to giving our marriage another try. But the damage was done. She has made a whole new life for herself and I am not part of it. And even though I never told the kids about my affair, they seem to be angry with me and busy themselves with plans whenever I try to spend time with them. This hurts more than they will ever know. So, I'm not even sure why I'm writing. I doubt you have anything to say that will help in my situation. But if you have any suggestions, I will be forever grateful.

Mark

Mark and Joan are not alone. The divorce trap seduces over one million people each year. It promises peace and tranquility. It offers a fresh start, a second chance at romance, contentment, and self-discovery. It lures people into its grip by offering assurances that walking out the door can eliminate life's seemingly insurmountable problems. When you're desperately unhappy, these so-called guarantees are hard to resist. But there are good reasons for doing so. If you or someone you love is contemplating divorce you will want to know what I have learned about the truth about divorce.

In my work, I've had a bird's eye view of what happens in people's lives after divorce. I have seen the intense pain and despair that lingers for years. I have seen times when every birthday, holiday, or other causes for celebration have been nothing more but painful reminders of a divorce. I have seen the triggering of unpredictable, hurtful events such the total rejection by the children of the parent seeking the divorce. I have known children who, even after many years following the divorce and after their parents' subsequent marriages, still want to know if mom and dad will ever get back together.

Now, after three decades of our social experiment with rampant divorce and disposal marriages, I know it isn't a matter of people keeping their marriages together because they can, it's a matter of people making their marriages work because they should. Divorce stinks! 


here the whole story if you want - Divorce Busting® - Books on Marriage Problems - Book Sample: Divorce Remedy


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## ilou (Oct 25, 2012)

I remember something an uncle did to his ex-wife before he moved out and was in the same situation. He wrote everything he felt in a letter but hid it between the backing and photo of a picture frame. 

He was never confrontational so he found this as a way to get it off his chest. He knew it was completely over.

Apparently she saw it about 7 years later when the dust had settled. She was pretty distraught and remorseful. But hey, he was long gone doing his own thing.

Not saying the same result would happen to anyone that would try but I think it would be a good temporary relief.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I vented a bit in a text message today. I hadn't done that before. I don't think I was cruel, but I said what I wanted to say, especially since she went and hid with the posOM while I am moving out. Nothing mean, just matter-of-fact. 

I think I am done with that. There is nothing else to say. She either became someone I wouldn't love, or was always that person and had me fooled for years. 

I'm looking forward to next week and the start of my new life. Sitting at dinner with a few new friends (who I'm ironically moving away from already) watching the SEC champ game. Life isn't bad, just frustrating. I hope I get a do-over.

Wish me luck with the move. It's been a real PITA so far and I hope they get me packed late tonight or at the crack of dawn tomorrow so I can be done with this.


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## ilou (Oct 25, 2012)

It's a pretty good game. I'll probably kick myself in the butt later for saying this but I think Georgia pulls it off.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Almost, was a fantastic game. 

Now for some luck with this darn move!!!

No word back from the stbxw from the text. Not surprised by that. Not sure what she could


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> No word back from the stbxw from the text. Not surprised by that. Not sure what she could



Ha ha , you're advising me not to think about my X but look what you're saying :lol:


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

True. Was just updating my TAM support network though. I guess I could have just not said anything until I heard back.

This will all get so much easier next week when I don't expect to hear for her. Couple more bills to split and them the divorce and that should be it.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

NO CONTACT ! remember 180 ? There is a reason why they say " do not initiate any contact " , think about it


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

FINALLY got some good news. The movers will load me tonight!

The downside is it will be very late ... No telling when and I'll have to drive 6hrs to the new city in the am, leaving before 8am (at the latest).

So not the way I want to spend the day before the new job, but thank god I'm out of here. I might take a nap now before they get here (who knows when).


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## tokio (Nov 9, 2012)

Very nice thread with great info. Bigmac that post earlier really hit me how my wife thought exactly. Truly amazing. Good luck lostinspace, I hope nothin but the best for you. Strive everyday to be better and make her realize what she gave up on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost



> So i may have texted her telling her that I knew what the pictures must be. She just replied that she won't open my mail so I shouldn't open hers.


Nice guys finish last so do me one favor, stop being so damn nice.

I know you hoped she would show you one sin this weekend that she cared, or that you could get closure.

But selfish cowards do not do that. They keep being selfish.

Never look back.

Heal. Socialize. Find that woman that loves you and wants your children.

Life will be ok for you.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Lost
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A-freaking-men.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks Tokio.

HM and Katty - being nice is a very hard habit to break I'm finding. My best friend (might as well be my sister) yells at me for the same thing. I'm trying to improve on that front and will definitely get some IC in the new town. I can't keep putting other people's feelings ahead of my own.

So update on the move. It's 3:30am and the movers just called to say they are now on the way ... Still 2.5 hours out. So much for last night. I'm going to be cutting this VERY close. 

This move had better be some kind of cosmic joke.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Seriously... The movers better get here quick. Damn this is frustrating.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

tokio said:


> Very nice thread with great info. Bigmac that post earlier really hit me how my wife thought exactly. Truly amazing. Good luck lostinspace, I hope nothin but the best for you. Strive everyday to be better and make her realize what she gave up on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



My X too and actually that is the case with most of us here !

Stay strong and keep on 180 !

@Lost

Be patient mate , everything will be fine. Don't get pissed for unimportant things !


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Watching them get me moved. I have to be on the road in 30 minutes ...


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Watching them get me moved. I have to be on the road in 30 minutes ...


GREAT , you see , everything will be fine. Don't stress out . Great live is ahead of you !

Good luck with moving !

Drive safe !


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Let us know how your move went.
And I hope you left the pictures unopened on her pillow with a big load of dog [email protected] on them with a note:

Thanks for the memories! See ya!


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

BigMac said:


> People who are unhappy in their marriages often speak of feeling trapped. They yearn to be free from the tension, loneliness, constant arguments or deafening silence but worry that divorce may not be the right decision. After all, they took their marital vows seriously. They don't want to hurt their spouses. They don't want to hurt their children. They panic at the thought of being alone. They worry about finances. They fear the unknown.
> 
> Yet, the idea of living in a loveless marriage starts to feel like a death sentence. They feel caught between a rock and a hard place…trapped in a life of misery. Over time, many of these people slowly convince themselves that the benefits of leaving their marriages vastly outweigh the benefits of staying. They tell themselves, "Kids are resilient, they'll bounce back," or "In the long run, this will be better for everyone," or "Sure, it will be hard for a while, but change is good for people, or "Anything has got to be better than this." It's not until they embark on the path to divorce and begin to piece their lives back together that they discover the real price they paid for their so-called "freedom". Regretfully, this painful discovery comes too late. They have fallen into the divorce trap.
> 
> ...


Great stuff. I would love to present this to STBXW, but she wouldnt care at this point anyway. But I am pretty sure she will have the same emotions some day.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Hi guys. I wanted to check in and let you know I am finally in the new city and apartment and got Internet set up this evening. 

The new city seems awesome. Lots of stuff to do, great restaurants, and amazingly nice people. I'd kill to have everything unpacked (and my tv working... Why doesn't my tv work with just the HDMA cable plugged in!!!), but am happy to have everything in the right city at least. Got done with the movers about an hour ago. 

Had the first day of my new job today. The people are very nice. I've got a ton to learn as it is a completely new industry for me, with brand new acronyms and such, and I'm in a junior executive role ... So I need to hit the ground running. The next few weeks will have lots of late nights studying (but tonight I catch up on sleep!).

I decided not to respond to my stbxw's response to my text the other day... I still can't believe she said that saying goodbye in person would be too hard for her. Seriously? Ya, I'm sure she won't look back and regret choosing to stay an extra day with the posOM rather than saying goodbye to the man she spent more than a decade with ...

On a similar note, she is texting me nice things like "hope your day goes well" to which I don't respond. Only business chat now honey ... And that is starting to bug her i think. 

Just don't get why she thinks I want to be all nicey nicey with her after all of this. 

Tomorrow, when I get some time I'll start my new journal/post, since as of yesterday afternoon I'm no longer living with the stbxw!


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

^5


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> On a similar note, she is texting me nice things like "hope your day goes well" to which I don't respond. Only business chat now honey ... And that is starting to bug her i think.


Do you remember my prediction ?

This is just the begin !

Wait till she starts missing you ! Then she'll pay less and less attention to posOM . Then he'll dump her !

Then she'll start living the single live . 

She'll try to get a new posOm but she get losers only !

Then she'll get tired of all the bullcrap.

And then ... guess what .... YES ... you got it 

It will start with the texts like " how is your day " , " how do you like your new job " , " I hope you having fun in the new city" etc

AND then - fasten your seat belt !

Nice to hear you're doing great , please keep us posted !


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Mac is spot on. Read my posts, I see it done ALL the time. I don't care if she has more pride than anyone in the country. it will happen. I've seen it done 25 years, guys and girls wanting to re-enter. I will lay you a dinner for two if we ever meet, she will.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost

Glad you are getting settled. Go dark.

Only communicate about the divorce.

She deserves nothing else from you.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> Mac is spot on. Read my posts, I see it done ALL the time. I don't care if she has more pride than anyone in the country. it will happen. I've seen it done 25 years, guys and girls wanting to re-enter. *I will lay you a dinner for two if we ever meet, she will.*


Was that for me ? 

What is the average time you've seen them wanting to return ?

I know is around the year anniversary.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

text back CWML.....................consult with my lawyer.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Glad to hear things are going well so far! Great job on the NC btw 

Sounds like your new life will be fun and exciting. A great city, new job, nice people...you are set.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

LIS, you are making progess and didnt even do the 180 really right?


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Correct. Didn't do much in the way of the 180 except: 

1) working out more. Worked out already, but I go every day now and sometimes 2x a day and am training for another marathon now.

2) started taking myself out to dinner. I am/was the type to NEVER go anywhere alone. So that is a bit of a 180 for me.

3) stopped being super nice to her (and now that I'm out of the house I am doing NC except for "business" type emails or texts about bills that aren't split yet, etc). 

I'm doing the NC for me though. It seems like a lot of people go NC thinking it might be some magic spell that will bring their wayward spouses home. I'm doing it because it helps me move on and not think of her - out of sight out of mind. With how busy I am with the new job/moving/learning the city, I actually haven't thought of for an hour or two at a time at some points. I know she isn't the type to undo or admit a mistake (even if she one day thinks it is a mistake) so I'm moving on with my life.

That is a good thing for me, since I shouldn't want someone who would do this to me anyway. Knowing there is no chance of a R makes moving on much easier.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Correct. Didn't do much in the way of the 180 except:
> 
> 1) working out more. Worked out already, but I go every day now and sometimes 2x a day and am training for another marathon now.
> 
> ...


Lost

Keep moving forward. And no chance with her leaves you open for so many options.

Get her permanently out of your life so you can get on with yours.

you will not be alone for long.....

The good guys never are!

HM64


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

I have always had a "self purge" process when it comes to exes. I never really noticed it before this. I get rid of pictures, cards, notes, everything. With my STBXW, I dont even look at her, because I need to forget, move on, not feel. I will do fine with the NC, that is what I am looking forward too. Makes it so much easier for me. 

I would agree, if you sitting there always thinking of R, you will drive yourself nuts!


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Garry2012 said:


> I have always had a "self purge" process when it comes to exes. I never really noticed it before this. *I get rid of pictures*, cards, notes, everything. With my STBXW, I dont even look at her, because I need to forget, move on, not feel. I will do fine with the NC, that is what I am looking forward too. Makes it so much easier for me.
> 
> I would agree, if you sitting there always thinking of R, you will drive yourself nuts!



I did ask my X on the day of divorce after we got back , she say NO , I'll to have the pictures ... and trow them away on my terms !
No idea what does she mean but right now I don't care !


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

I'm not ready to throw them away, and frankly I want them for my kids to see that we where once a family etc. But, they will collect dust for 20 years in a box in the attic for sure.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Correct. Didn't do much in the way of the 180 except:
> 
> 1) working out more. Worked out already, but I go every day now and sometimes 2x a day and am training for another marathon now.
> 
> ...


Seems like you have made some great strides LIS! Keep up the good work.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Just a quick update for those following along:

I'm still planning on starting a new thread, just need to find some time this week. It will likely be the weekend.

Yesterday after work the CEO's husband (who I have gotten to know a bit over the last two years) took me out to show me the city and to dinner. Was a good time, although I worry that some of the other employees were thinking "wth is this guy".

I'm also going to a work party this Friday. Should be fun.

The stbxw sent me the weirdest email yesterday. The subject was something like "hi" and she said she hopes my job and move are going well. She then went on to say she misses our pet (who moved with me) and then sent me a video or picture of some joke from online that she said reminded her of something I used to tease her about. I didn't watch the video, so no clue what that meant.

I sent an email later that day (not a reply) with some divorce business in it and that was it. 

Like Dewayne's question in the Christmas thread, I wondered if me not replying might push her further away but then I remembered she "fell out of love" with me without ever telling me she was unhappy at all (seriously had no clue) and then cheated on me. 

The gut reaction is always to talk with the person who has been my best friend for so long, but I wouldn't stay friends with someone who betrayed me, why would I stay friends with the stbxw who has done what she did? It's sad because I miss what we had, and I worry about my future (being alone, never having kids, etc), but I just can't imagine a good life with her anymore ... I doubt there would ever be trust again. 

So, the NC continues. We'll see if she got the message by me not replying and how quick I can make new friends here.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

You're gonna be just fine, lost


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Keep going LIS. She is prob starting to regret what she did right? We all knew this was coming. I know its in my future, and i will be looking for support too. But like you, its sure is hard to take back someone who didnt care at all about you and cheated on you, not that long ago. I know I will never look at my STBXW the same. She will always have this aura of negativity and mistrust over her. Why would I want to deal with that when I can start fresh? Besides, my STBXW would be required to end almost all her male relationships, get off facebook, show me her phone all the time etc. ughhh....makes my stomach turn to think of going back to all the relationship monitoring I would feel i would have to do....and why the heck would i do that!!!! 

Stay strong!


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

LIS-Your ex will do things you would never imagine to try and either get you back or see your reaction. I don't care who she is or what control she thinks she has over her emotions. It will happen. Your key is to have flushed everything out of your system. If you gave love and kindness w/o regard they always return.....write it in stone. Like I told FS, that last corner is the hardest but the sunshine is waiting around it.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost

Stay Dark unless it is a divorce issue.

And she will not get the message for a while.

But that is her problem, not yours.

By the way, please remember she is not your friend. She was your friend.

Friends do not lie, hide or cheat on their friends.

Keep being you Lost. Hob knob all you can with the boss.

You will not be alone for long.

You'll see....

HM64


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

I know my day is coming, so I am putting together a timeline/diary/evidence package so I dont forget my feeling, what she did and what she said. This will be my reading material when she wants to come back, I will remember all the bad things she did to me...and keep walking.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Lost
> 
> Stay Dark unless it is a divorce issue.
> 
> ...


All stuff I need to remember too. I want her to get the message NOW, but it will take a while i guess.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Lost
> 
> Stay Dark unless it is a divorce issue.
> 
> ...


Remind yourself of this everytime she contacts you.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks guys. I appreciate the continued support. I'm looking forward to tomorrow when I can focus on me again. 

I've been too busy and/or tired to workout much this week (the alarm goes off at 5:30 and I think "no") and I've had no time after work. It will be nice when I settle into a routine. I've got a ton more stuff I need to buy for my new single life (I knew there'd be hundred of dollars of stuff I didn't think of) and a million things I need to do yet (and the DMV is one I'm not looking forward to). 

Total NC yesterday. She didn't send anything and I had no business to discuss. I definitely realize she isn't my friend ... But it's a hard mental hurdle after so many years. 

As for me not being single long. I hope you are right HM. The pickings appear to be slim (not that I'm looking, but I am noticing other single people for the first time in my life) as my age bracket is the recently-married-but-not-yet-divorced group, I think.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost and Garry2012,

You both are doing fine. I remember figuring out the new life and routine.

As to not being single for too long? Here is how you select your next candidates.

She needs to be:
Nice.
Respectful of you.
Have high, high, high self esteem for themselves.
And a good family behind them.

Start with those qualities and narrow down from there. Also forgot to mention she needs to be cute. How cute? Hotter than the Ex.

And take your time. Sort out yourselves. Do the sorting now.

And never look back. There is nothing back there for you. Your futures are ahead of you......

Good Hunting after your Divorces.

HM64


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

HM, thanks man. Definitely working on sorting myself out, but I can say I don't really like being alone. I've got to figure out how to be ok with it and myself. I've never been alone except for a few months at college before I met the wife.

Went out with my new coworkers for a drink after work tonight. Great people all. I did learn that at 32 I'm "old" . This from a 26 year old girl. Great. I guess I'm going to have to go 27 and up 

Can't wait for the new normal.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

32 is not old. She is just naive.

I am 48 and my wife says i act like a 9 year old. 

That makes me feel good. Because the day i act my age is the day i die.

The new normal will slowly sink in.

Patience.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> 32 is not old. She is just naive.


I agree!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lostinspaces said:


> HM, thanks man. Definitely working on sorting myself out, but I can say I don't really like being alone. I've got to figure out how to be ok with it and myself. I've never been alone except for a few months at college before I met the wife.
> 
> Went out with my new coworkers for a drink after work tonight. Great people all. I did learn that at 32 I'm "old" . This from a 26 year old girl. Great. I guess I'm going to have to go 27 and up
> 
> Can't wait for the new normal.


My friend, a young lady makes a remark like that and it's a fitness test.

Did you really fold up the tent in response?


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> HM, thanks man. Definitely working on sorting myself out, but I can say I don't really like being alone. I've got to figure out how to be ok with it and myself. I've never been alone except for a few months at college before I met the wife.
> 
> Went out with my new coworkers for a drink after work tonight. Great people all. I did learn that at 32 I'm "old" . This from a 26 year old girl. Great. I guess I'm going to have to go 27 and up
> 
> Can't wait for the new normal.


I would have told her I'm not old, but maybe more of a man then you could handle!


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

just an immature woman for sure. I talk to 20 somethings all the time, and they say im not old...and im 44.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

The comment wasn't directed at me, was just a general observation. I do wish I was a bit younger in this situation. No clue how to meet people who are on the market.

A bit depressed today for some reason. I guess it is because this is the first day I've had where I didn't have anything I *had* to do. I'm planning to unpack the rest of my stuff today and probably overpay for this massive gym I toured (65 a month). There are a ton of people there though and lots of classes and clubs. I was going to join a running club anyway so I could take those dues out of the cost. 

Wish I had a support network here. The first couple months to meet people will suck.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lostinspaces said:


> The comment wasn't directed at me, was just a general observation. I do wish I was a bit younger in this situation. No clue how to meet people who are on the market.
> 
> A bit depressed today for some reason. I guess it is because this is the first day I've had where I didn't have anything I *had* to do. I'm planning to unpack the rest of my stuff today and probably overpay for this massive gym I toured (65 a month). There are a ton of people there though and lots of classes and clubs. I was going to join a running club anyway so I could take those dues out of the cost.
> 
> Wish I had a support network here. The first couple months to meet people will suck.


I would respectfully disagree.

Most of the true goddesses I've met are around 35.

That was true when I was 23.

It's also true when I'm 50.

Wake up.

26 year old bubbleheads hold little appeal. They've usually got a biological clock roaring in their heads. 

Think about it.

How many threads have you read here about "I gave him a family".

As if that's when their part of the deal ended.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I always loved older women, even back in college. My STBXW was nearly 7 years older than I. But at 41 and seeking children, I most likely will have to seek younger. There are females who have "their sh1t together" at 30 but lol they're usually taken pretty quick.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I figure I'll be looking for late 20s. Old enough to have a career of her own (to avoid women who are only interested in my income), and to have a good idea of what she wants in life.

Like Chuck said though ... Girls like that are very rare at this age.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> I figure I'll be looking for late 20s. Old enough to have a career of her own (to avoid women who are only interested in my income), and to have a good idea of what she wants in life.
> 
> Like Chuck said though ... Girls like that are very rare at this age.


What's up with the 'late 20's' thing?

You don't want a woman?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

HappyKaty said:


> What's up with the 'late 20's' thing?
> 
> You don't want a woman?


Damn.. how stupid.

35 year olds are goddesses.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I'm 32 ... I can't very well go much older than myself and still have a chance at having a family


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lostinspaces said:


> I'm 32 ... I can't very well go much older than myself and still have a chance at having a family


Bull****

How about having a life?


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> I'm 32 ... I can't very well go much older than myself and still have a chance at having a family


Umm, what?!?

I resent that statement.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

HappyKaty said:


> Umm, what?!?
> 
> I resent that statement.


It is "misinformed"


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> I'm 32 ... I can't very well go much older than myself and still have a chance at having a family


Older women make better lovers.

Believe that.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

HappyKaty said:


> Older women make better lovers.
> 
> Believe that.


This is gospel truth.

They know what to do.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> I figure I'll be looking for late 20s. Old enough to have a career of her own (to avoid women who are only interested in my income), and to have a good idea of what she wants in life.
> 
> Like Chuck said though ... Girls like that are very rare at this age.


Come to NY City Lost.

There are a few million of them......


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Not trying to insult, and I'm sure older women have fantastic qualities, but I don't know that I see myself with someone older. That said, I'm obviously not going to ask a girl her age on a date, so if I like her and she is older, so be it. 

Not sure how I feel about women with kids either. Again, if I find one I like and she has kids, it wouldn't make me like her less. I just don't know what to think about trying to raise someone else's kids not having had any experience raising my own. 

HM - definitely wish I was in NYC. I'm sure there are tons of career oriented single women there. I've got some friends there, but I don't see myself getting over there with the new job. I'll be doing a lot of DC trips though.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Read all these links youngin'

Next time some bubblehead disses you, you'll be ready:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Interesting reads Conrad, thanks. 

I've always known I was a nice guy. Most of my close friends are female and they always gush over how much of a "good guy" I am. As if this is something to be proud of. 

I'm definitely working on this. I know I'm a fairly attractive guy, in good shape with good income, but I have just never had the Alpha personality. Its something I'm trying to figure out still and one of the reasons I'm glad I'm in a new city - a chance to reinvent myself.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lostinspaces said:


> Interesting reads Conrad, thanks.
> 
> I've always known I was a nice guy. Most of my close friends are female and they always gush over how much of a "good guy" I am. As if this is something to be proud of.
> 
> I'm definitely working on this. I know I'm a fairly attractive guy, in good shape with good income, but I have just never had the Alpha personality. Its something I'm trying to figure out still and one of the reasons I'm glad I'm in a new city - a chance to reinvent myself.


If most of your good friends are female you are doing something wrong.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Don't know about that. Since I've been with my stbxw for 12 years, I haven't had an interest in any of my female friends (and still don't) and therefore haven't been stuck in the "friend zone" or anything. 

The trick is to not make friends with any girls I am interested in and to figure out how to spot girls that are looking.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Don't know about that. Since I've been with my stbxw for 12 years, I haven't had an interest in any of my female friends (and still don't) and therefore haven't been stuck in the "friend zone" or anything.
> 
> The trick is to not make friends with any girls I am interested in and to figure out how to spot girls that are looking.


Are these female friends teaching you to "spot" other women?


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> HM, thanks man. Definitely working on sorting myself out, but I can say I don't really like being alone. I've got to figure out how to be ok with it and myself. I've never been alone except for a few months at college before I met the wife.
> 
> Went out with my new coworkers for a drink after work tonight. Great people all. I did learn that at 32 I'm "old" . This from a 26 year old girl. Great. I guess I'm going to have to go 27 and up
> 
> ...


I'm 47...I've never been alone either...and don't want to be...I have no idea how to meet new 'guys' really and my job is male oriented....lol...I mean...pickins are low...I want to go back to the gym on Monday...I usta work out like crazy....I need to get back into that.
I hate the number 47yrs...but nothing I can do about it...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Stella Moon said:


> I'm 47..*.I've never been alone either...and don't want to be*...I have no idea how to meet new 'guys' really and my job is male oriented....lol...I mean...pickins are low...I want to go back to the gym on Monday...I usta work out like crazy....I need to get back into that.
> I hate the number 47yrs...but nothing I can do about it...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What's wrong with being alone?


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> Are these female friends teaching you to "spot" other women?


Nope. It wasn't advice I ever needed before.

Now they fall under "omg you're a catch, you'll be fine" advice category. I don't live near them anymore (closest is 2 hr away) so they aren't going to be much help vetting candidates


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Stella - definitely get back to the gym. It's hard to motivate yourself to do sometimes (I should be getting ready to go right now) , but its amazing what it does for your mental well being. 

Up - there is nothing "wrong" with being alone. I just don't think some of us are cut out for being happy that way. Just like how some people tell you they aren't cut out for marriage. 

For me personally, I've always wanted a family. If life had been "fair" my stbxw would have been expecting next month. I just know there will always be a void in my life if I don't have that one day. I'm sorry the stbxw and I put it off for our careers for so long.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Anyone know if there is a way to rename a post? Rather than starting a new one, I think I'd rather rename this one to be my blog. Maybe my story might help someone else to avoid my mistakes one day.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Just finished a 6 mile run and feel pretty darn good. Getting excited about my half marathon back where all my friends live. 

I hope everyone is having a good weekend. About to go get stamps to mail the stbxw back some stuff. I've also got to fill out my court papers for the D today. 

I've decided to agree to most of her terms except financial. Se is claiming the separation started in May (I found out about her affair in late Oct, in May we were paying for fertility, and, hell in Sept she was all excited to move me to a new city for her job). I feel dirty agreeing to that lie, but, whatever. She's with the posOM anyway, why fight a piece of paper. 

Still don't get the point of lying though. This is literally like a death. The girl I knew for more than a decade truly is gone. How surreal.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

re writing history


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

I wont lie for my STBXW. She call tell them we fight all the time, I wont.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Simply wait until you go before a judge.....yeah talk abour a reality check!


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Well, I don't have to go before the judge for the Initial hearing, due to where i live. Which is good. I also happy as I know she'll expect me to be there and I won't.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

will you have to appear at all?


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Dunno. Not the first time at least. Frankly I hope not. What good would my presence do?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

true, just a formality


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost

Would it be wrong to ask for half the fertility and 100% of your moving costs?

If she says the Marriage ended in May and you had those expenses after her Separation date I would ask for re-imbursement of those expenses.

Maybe I am nitpicking and you are better off walking away.

It just seems weird she was out of the marriage but would have you go to all that expense......

Just an idea and if it does not bother you then I think staying dark and being a no show for court is the right way to go.

I guess at this point whatever helps you heal is the best direction to head for.

HM64


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Ya, I guess if she is going to BS about the start of the end I should get that money back. Obviously it wasn't until at least sometime shortly before the miscarriage (we stopped trying after that for a few months under the pretense of her training for a marathon... With this guy it turns out).

Still I guess I might want to be done with it too. It's too painful to think about us trying to get pregnant and what losing the baby led to. 

I may just stay dark. Dunno, today for some reason I am down ... I guess it is not having any human contact (unless flirting with a girl at target counts) and having nothing going on. If I'm being honest ... And I stay honest here ... I kind of want to hear from her. If only to know she thinks of me too. 

How strange is it to not want her back (I really do want someone new), but to want her to want me. Stupid brain.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> I kind of want to hear from her. If only to know she thinks of me too.


She thinks about you.

See?

Now, you don't need to hear from her.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Hah, thanks Katy. If you are in the business of making wishes come true, then I'll have to let you know the next time I buy a lottery ticket.


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> That's called *rug sweeping.*Nothing quick about things like this.


I did this daily in my marriage


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost

Buy the lottery ticket no matter what.

Your luck will change. 

You are in control of what happens to you now.

No one else.

HM64


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Stupid mobile phone somehow makes a post whenever I check this page from it... 

Anyway. Pretty good day at work today. Went to lunch with a coworker and finally got some traction on some of my work projects. I'm actually excited to go into work tomorrow, I can actually start doing stuff now. 

I did get an email from the stbxw this morning, so the put a shadow over part of the morning. It was all business until I replied (my reply was all business) ... Then she went on to bring up something we had talked about a month ago (I thought she had forgotten) and asked my opinion on her calling my sister. To be fair I told her she should more than a month ago. I've since changed my mind as it seems to me that people who are friends with cheaters are more likely to be them themselves (stbxw's best friend broke up her marriage and a married man w. kids marriage). At this late date I don't want her calling my sister anymore. My sis was pretty broken up about this initially, and I don't want her being reminded about it all. They were pretty close though and my sister has known my stbxw almost all of her life. 

The stbxw also pointed out when our initial court date was, as if my lawyer had wouldnt tell me that.

Ok so someone smarter than me tell me wth that was about. She waited to drop that on me until the reply. Was that supposed to continue the conversation? Anyway, I didn't reply. Still trying to be strictly business. 

* oh and on a side note; I've decided that I don't care if the stbxw finds this. I don't see what real harm it would cause and she still knows more about me than anyone else, so if she chose to cyber-stalk me I (a) probably wouldn't know and (b) don't see why I'd care.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

LIS-She is lining up your sister as a go between when she wants to try and reconnect. That is a PROMISE. Sit back and watch.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Don't thin so, and my sister is too young tone a good go between. I really do think she is committed to this. You'd have to know her family and personality to understand, but she can't admit she made a mistake and her parents would never forgive her for undoing this.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost

Do not be Plan B. keep moving forward.

And you are right.

The STBXW loses you then your sister goes too!

Protect your sister.

And by the way your ex is a little crazy is just looks like stubbornness.

Because she thinks by keeping her relationship with your sister she can keep tabs on you.

You'll see.

You are doing great. Have fun at your new job.

HM64


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks HM. I'm definitely not going to give my blessing to that relationship. 

So, obviously, this morning is a bit rough. It's 4:45am and I've been up since 4 ... Not exactly sad, just dwelling on things. Woke up immediately thinking of her and some of the stuff she did. I still can't wrap my brain around how we could go from starting our family to her wanting a D in less than 4 months. I suppose us both traveling and not seeing each other much since the miscarriage did a ton of damage. 

Also thinking about how she was already replacing our photos with photos of a guy she's been with for just that time (less, likely) before I'm even out of the house. It makes me sick. How could I have misjudged her character so completely for 12 years?

I really did think this was the best person I had ever met.

I've been laying in bed thinking about the horrible things I'd like to say to her (in an email, so she has to read and can't argue). I know it wouldn't do any good and I won't actually write it, but I'm just very angry/betrayed at the moment again. 

I hate this multiple personality type thing that goes on in my head. I want to hear from her, but I don't. I keep it strictly business, but I guess, deep down, I'm still looking for answers and validation.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

There is a good chance she doesn't even know the why. When someone doesn't know the why, they get immersed in a fantasy. I never heard one word about mine being "miserable" until the bomb dropped. Claimed she was miserable for several years. Well...I was not aware you can be that great of an actress because you sure never acted like it.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Thanks HM. I'm definitely not going to give my blessing to that relationship.
> 
> So, obviously, this morning is a bit rough. It's 4:45am and I've been up since 4 ... Not exactly sad, just dwelling on things. Woke up immediately thinking of her and some of the stuff she did. I still can't wrap my brain around how we could go from starting our family to her wanting a D in less than 4 months. I suppose us both traveling and not seeing each other much since the miscarriage did a ton of damage.
> 
> ...


Your not alone LIS. I feel the same way. I thought I new my STBXW backwards and forwards, but for the last 6 months, and last month or so especially, I dont even know who she is...and the person i see i really dont like.

I know in my case, it is a mlc, she is off her rocker. I dont feel like i misjudged her, she has a disease, that i cant cure.

I had a rough night last night for some dumb reason too, up from 2-330 thinking about everything. I slip every once in a while, then do good for a couple days.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lis and Garry,

Your wives are off their rockers.

You need to keep that perception of them so you can move on and heal.

Only they can help themselves now. They are in control of their actions. You two can only control yourselves.

So step back. Let them continue to make those horrible decisions. 

The key is to keep moving forward, make the decisions to get away from their infidelity and put your lives back together for yourselves.


HM64


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I know she's crazy now, but she wasn't always that way. I just remember only a few months ago when she told me how she loved me so much and was so happy with our pregnancy. What a f***ed up world we live in, when I NEVER would have guessed this from her. I should never have let her be friends with that cheater best friend of hers. 

I'm doing my best to move on. Actually I think I'm doing very good at acting moved on, but I won't lie here. I don't even know what I want anymore. I want to wake up from this as a bad dream ... But even if it was I don't think I'd ever look at her the same. 

I wish I knew I'd find someone else. But some people don't. 

It's strange I can be so down and then so "ok" at the same time. It's more like fear of the future than wanting her back. I don't think I could ever forgive her. I just don't want to be alone. I don't even know what I'm supposed to do with life now. 

I mean I have a good job. I've just finished my masters. If I don't meet someone and have a family, what else is there? 

I'm a planner by nature (and profession) so not having a plan is really starting to get to me. I'm not a "live life day by day" person. As a matter of fact that is something the stbxw complained about me. I just plan out my (our) entire life and then track things. Didn't try to have kids until this year because I wanted to hit a financial goal for the benefit of my kids. A mistake I guess... 

Garry - mine is having a mlc too I think. Wants a tattoo, wants to party, getting drunk after not being a huge drinker etc. doesn't make a diff why she did what she did though.

Sorry for the vent tonight. Not sure what is up these last two days. I'm fine during the day when I'm distracted by work. Guess being truly alone for the first time since a few months in college is starting to get to me.


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> I mean I have a good job. I've just finished my masters. If I don't meet someone and have a family, what else is there?


LIS - you have a good foundation and time to meet someone again and possibly have kids. To let you know, I had kids when we were 37 and I don't feel "too old" as a lot of people have put a family off until their late 30s or so now. None of the other kindergarten parents I know are "spring chickens".


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

LIS-If your spouse wants to leave or cheat there is not a thing you can do to stop her (or him). In time you will forgive her and (I know you say she never will but for sake of argument) when she tried to reconnect you will be able to make a clear choice. If you do not forgive, judgement clouded. I am an organization freak too. I can relate to what you are saying. Someone said the betrayed spouse ends up in a much better position that the cheater because they knew they gave all they could. Like I said earlier, I think I had that one last cry. She came in today and I looked at her and felt.......no pain, no anger, no regrets. A loss well yeah but I did what I could. At least I now know the coming around day, I will be able to make a decision based on clear logic and reason. If this makes sense, I feel like I was baptized today.


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## HeartbrokenW (Sep 26, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> I wish I knew I'd find someone else. But some people don't.


Thanks for your kind words in my post. This quote is how I feel. I've been down the marriage road twice now, and I really thought everything was fine with us. I never had a clue that he wasn't happy. Like you posted in your original post, people were floored when they found out we were divorcing. We were the last people that they thought would ever go separate ways. 

Since realizing (or accepting) that its over, I am in a good place. I sleep well now at night, I wake up refreshed. I go to work every day and do my best. My work is my lifeline, I couldn't let that slip. I have my daughter here at home to keep things normal. In my spare time, I work on projects around the house. Painting, changing things that I've always wanted to do. Things I can do on my own. Being alone is my only caveat, but in time, I'm hoping I will meet someone else. I don't think I could ever marry again, but I'd like to just have someone who cares, you know?


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Soca - that is good to hear. I have to keep reminding myself that we tend to socialize with people similar to us. Therefore all of my friends have been late 20s/early 30s with kids. I need to meet a cute girl finishing up her medical residency ... They tend to wait until later to have kids 

Chuck - that does make sense ,and I've been at that point before (well not forgiveness, but the numbness you describe) and that is how I'm feeling this morning. It's almost like mental mood swings. 

I definitely do want her to regret her decision one day. I think we had a very good marriage and I think a few months ago she would have said the same. With the miscarriage and the attention of the younger guy I think she just got blinded by the excitement of something new. The again, her cheater friend is still with the guy whose marriage she destroyed (they were both married) so, with my luck, it works out for my stbxw and her posOM too. Shallow, I know, but I'd rather her end up with anyone else but him. 

Heart - it's hard when you don't see it coming. Many people know their marriages have problems, but when everything seems to be going so well, the shock when you find out the stbx isn't happy images everything harder. Basically what you have is someone who is horrible at communication and too selfish to see a marriage as two separate people working towards a common goal. They keep looking for the fantasy. 

I'm glad you are doing so well, and normally I do ok too. Last night was rough for some reason I can't figure out. Doing pretty good this morning though. 

I definitely understand that being alone is the hang up in the recovery. It is mine as well. I want to be ok with being by myself, but I don't know if I'm wired that way. It's weird for a guy to say this, but I always pictured myself married with kids, even as a teenager. I think that led to my lack of dating experience ... I was always looking for the "right" girl.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

God my posts have gotten long. Sheesh, sorry guys ... They don't feel that long when I'm typing them!


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Got a good run in tonight. Training for my next race. 

Also ... Two cute girls at the apartment gym while I was there. Apparently I didn't choose my apartment complex horribly. Now I have to figure out how to talk to them and not look like a creeper. 

Maybe I'll start another post and get some female perspective on when/how to talk with women and when/how to ask them on a date. I haven't done this since I was a teenager and I was only single for 6 months then. Was with my high school sweetheart for two years before meeting my wife... 

I have a feeling this is the type of things where practice helps, but don't know that much rejection would be great for me right now.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost

2 cute girls at the gym? Don't know how to break the ice?

Go to the gym every day at or close to the same time. You will be great friends sooner rather than later with them without looking like a creeper.

Do not mention the S or pending D until you become friends.

Keep it light and fun.

Who knows, they might have friends!!!

HM64


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

HM64.....wise man.......nice to have someone who has been through everything to help newbys (like me)


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Got a good run in tonight. Training for my next race.
> 
> Also ... Two cute girls at the apartment gym while I was there. Apparently I didn't choose my apartment complex horribly. Now I have to figure out how to talk to them and not look like a creeper.
> 
> ...


Just get hammered and throw down! 

Oh wait...that's what I used to do... never mind...


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Hey, at this point, if I knew I would work I'd try just about anything. I have literally almost 0 experience in that arena.

Would just be nice to get that socialization at this point. The big drawback of being in this new city is (obviously) that I don't know a soul. 

Also, realization dawned on me when I woke up today that if I don't hear from the stbxw today, that will make three days in a row of NC. The longest I've gone in 12 years without hearing from her (already been more than a week since I heard her voice, a record there too). 

Crazy. Doesn't bother me really, I just find it surreal. My stupid ultra analytical brain keeps track of data like that.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost

My real point was that by going to the gym every day you will be in the best shape of your life. 

What woman does not like a guy who is in great shape.

Plus the cuties will be working on their shapes too!

It is a great icebreaker.

Start putting yourself out there. I am very shy! But I am also in sales. So I force myself to be approachable.

And funny but true, I dated a few women in my day. I worked myself into a relationship. But the only woman I ever asked out on a first date I married. 

So be careful Lost!

And have fun.

How is the new job by the way?

HM64

Ps
Stop keeping count of your texts or calls to STBXW. You should focus on you......


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Also ... Two cute girls at the apartment gym while I was there. Apparently I didn't choose my apartment complex horribly. Now I have to figure out how to talk to them and not look like a creeper.


Lost - here's something I picked up from No More Mister Nice Guy:

Blurt. In my dating seminars and classes, shy men will often tell me that they can’t think of anything to say when they approach a woman. I tell them this isn’t true. They have plenty to say, but they have created a filter in their mind that constantly and quietly warns them, “Don’t say that, it might be the wrong thing, she might disagree, you might look foolish”. Trying to get anything past this sensor proves difficult. So these men typically don’t say anything or what they do say is bland and boring.

I tell these guys to practice “blurting” -- to say whatever comes to mind. Don’t pre-think it. Don’t get caught up in the paralysis of analysis. Say whatever off-the-wall thing comes to mind. Have an opinion. State the obvious. Be silly. Be childlike. This of course means that they will indeed sometimes say something stupid or even inappropriate. But by taking off the filter, at least something comes out of their mouths and more often than not, it is interesting and stimulating.

This applies to married men as well. One of the biggest complaints I hear from married women is that they don’t know what is going on inside their man’s head. Your woman wants to know what you are thinking -- even if she disagrees with it! The average married man has developed the philosophy that you can’t be crucified for what you don’t say. But over the long-term, a woman can’t be aroused by a man who keeps thoughts and opinions to himself. Blurt!

Have a plan. Whether you are single or married, it is your job to set the tone and take the lead. That doesn’t mean being controlling or dominating. It just means having a plan. Recently one of my clients shared in group that his live-in girlfriend got mad at him when he asker her, “What do you want to do this weekend?” He couldn’t understand her reaction because he was just trying to be considerate.

Here’s the reason she got mad. He already knew what he wanted to do that weekend -- he wanted to go camping. But instead of telling her that in a clear and direct way, he asked her what she wanted to do, hoping he could steer her toward what he wanted without actually having to state his plan. She knew he was being indirect and she resented being put in that situation. When he finally came out and said he wanted to go camping, she said “Great, lets go”.

Having a plan isn’t being controlling, it is giving a woman a choice. If you are single, don’t ask a woman, “Would you like to go out with me sometime?” Tell her to meet you at Starbucks on Tuesday afternoon for coffee. She knows exactly what she is signing up for and she isn’t burdened by having to come up with a plan.

If you are in a relationship, don’t come home in the evening and ask, “What do you want to do tonight?” Walk in the door and say, “Be dressed and ready to go dancing by 8:00.” Give her the choice to follow your lead or not. Give her the chance to propose an alternative. Just don’t leave everything up to her. She’ll resent it.

As much as a woman might want to be attracted to a Nice Guy, she can’t. Her biology won’t allow it. Stop being the safe guy. Be a good man with an edge. Be yourself. That’s what turns a woman on!


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

HM - new job is pretty good. I want to get deeper into the meat of some projects but my boss (CEO) has been out since I started. I've still got stuff to work on, but its not as involved as id like yet. I'm the they the needs to be very busy at work. 

Im a petty social person. Actually it's a feast or famine thing for me, I'm either VERY social or completely alone. I'm happy with either normally, but now that I'm single I'm finding that I want more socialization than I used to.

I'm definitely in very good shape now. I was in decent shape when this started and almost two months of training daily has put me over the edge. Training for this race is also having an effect. I do t think there are many early-30s guys out there in better shape. Self confidence would be the bigger issue. 

Good advice on just being around the until I develop a friendship though. I'll run another 5k tonight at the same time and will report back if they were there again. 

Zill - good read, thanks for sharing! It's an interesting concept. I think maybe ill try it out in those "nothing to lose" situations. The again my wife did use the "always having to choose" thing against me when detailing my flaws post D day. Maybe there is something to that. I was always taught to be a gentleman and defer to the woman in most cases though. It's a hard habit to break. 

Makes me friends with a lot of girls though ... Not the situation I'm looking for these days though.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Well, maybe somehow I know her too well. She texted me today. I guess I had a feeling one was coming. 

It just tells me she mailed me some stuff. Is that business? Do I reply to it? I got the text hours ago but can't make up my mind in what to do. I want to be NC, but I don't want to be an ass either.

I mean we have to work through a divorce still and if she goes into it thinking I've become a a-hole I can't imagine we'll have an easy time negotiating. 

Thoughts? 

Jumping in the shower post-run. Will prolly need to make a decision when I get out.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

I wouldn't reply....or if i did it would be "ok" and a couple days from now....she is just fishing


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks vi, you're right of course. Don't know why I wasn't sure. 

Also don't know wth she'd be fishing for.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Thanks vi, you're right of course. Don't know why I wasn't sure.
> 
> Also don't know wth she'd be fishing for.


.....don't worry about her....she probably wants to see if your miserable or something....

Ignoring her is best right now. For you.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

work on yourself, time not here yet nut will be coming, be prep'd n ready. you tube carly simon


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks vi. I'm actually not miserable. Lonely, but not miserable. My stbxw and I both traveled for a living so we would after go a couple weeks without seeing each other. I think that was good practice for this. My IC think so too ... Think that couples that travelled for work like we did rarely work. 

Chuckles ... You are being awefully cryptic tonight


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Good morning TAMers. 

Hope everyone has a good day today (or has had a good day for those on the other side of the pond). Feels like it will be a good day to me. 

Gotta figure out what to do with my weekend. Not having any plans is something that is going to take getting used to. If it weren't so dang cold I could do a long ride. Maybe I'll look into clubs or volunteer opportunities around here. 

Ummm. Ya, that is all.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Good morning TAMers.
> 
> Hope everyone has a good day today (or has had a good day for those on the other side of the pond). Feels like it will be a good day to me.
> 
> ...


Thats is so true. I let my STBXW and family drive my life, now i have to think about me, what i want and just do it. Kinda nice feeling to not have to worry about whether what i do makes her happy anymore. Gotta remember my hobbies haha.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Volunteering animal rescue or children with special needs would be a good place. If you have an interest there, girls will know that you are a nice guy that has compassion. In warmer weather, try volunteering to mow people's yards who are unable. Anytime you show kindness with no expectation in return will turn a girl's head quick.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Garry - the problem is figuring out what to do.

Chuck - I was thinking about volunteering to be a big brother. Money and time are two things I have these days, and I figure I could really help some kid who needs it. I almost adopted a kid in college who I met while volunteering ... Both his parents were in jail and his grandma was raising him. Was a bright kid and so sweet ... And didn't stand a chance.

------

So I'm pretty mad at myself right now. I went to my apartment complex party and stayed all of 2 minutes. There weren't many people there and everyone was already talking to someone. I have no clue how to be alone and meet people. This sucks. I was all geared up to be confident, but when I stood there for 10 sec by myself I just crumbled and left. 

Maybe I'm not ready yet. I love hanging out with people, but have never been good with strangers... And now everyone is a stranger. 

How do I meet people? I just don't get this.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Wow just looked at the joint account and the stbxw is off for a weekend trip with the posOM again. Why did I look? Why am I sick to my stomach after seeing that? 

I thought I was way past that. Stupid me.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Wow just looked at the joint account and the stbxw is off for a weekend trip with the posOM again. Why did I look? Why am I sick to my stomach after seeing that?
> 
> I thought I was way past that. Stupid me.


Why do you still have a joint account?

Why do you give a crap what she is doing? She is lost, LOST!

You should take your share and do something with it.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

It exists for another two weeks while I wait for my new company's paycheck to go not my new account and my old company's paycheck to clear the old one. 

I have to pay bills out of the old one this weekend and then I should be able to close it after they clear.

No clue why I care what she is doing. Didn't think I did till I saw it. I'm not broken by it, it just turns my stomach. The thought of them together makes me sick.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Wow just looked at the joint account and the stbxw is off for a weekend trip with the posOM again. Why did I look? Why am I sick to my stomach after seeing that?
> 
> I thought I was way past that. Stupid me.


Its ok. Feel it, deal with it and then move on.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Why would a cheating spouse go on a weekend trip with the OM during her divorce? I'd say she's either avoiding responcibilities and living it up in la la land or using this as a coping tool for her, shall we say, real feelings of shame and insecurity. Either way her life is hers to live but sooner or later she's going to have to face reality with divorce, bills, a boyfriend who's not who he appeared to be, and depression. 

Don't beat yourself up for slipping up like we all have done. Think of it as periodization cycling training where when you were at level 10 and you slip up so you start over at level 5 or below and work your way up to 11. Except instead of counting the days of you not contacting her or spying you can focus on a rewarding hobby instead. If you're already motivated and know what to do you don't need to worry about the punishment or reward. You can just keep going forward with your life because YOU like the challenges ahead. 

Or in other words if your 180 is getting to be too much work and you're obsessing over what you can't do then find a way to make it fun again with something that will take your mind off of divorce and channel aggression away from your mouth. Musical instruments, working out, video games(handheld so you can take it with you). Really anything that you can mess around with for twenty minutes that makes you happy again will do. When I had the roughest time of my divorce and couldn't go on I found exercising with different breathing styles really helped. And during the whole court battle it was like my body knew what to do so I didn't lash out at my whife for holding my wrists and not letting me go cool down. 

Hope this helps you.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Vi - definitely feeling it, but at least it's anger/betrayal at this point. Woke up at 3:50 on a freaking Saturday (went to bed at 11). Just woke up angry at her. I guess when you spend the majority of your time trying not to think about the situation you will eventually get cracks in your mental armor and get a flood of emotion all at once. 

Other than wishing I could go back to sleep I'm doing ok laying in bed with my iPad though. Thank god for TAM or I wouldn't know what to do with these early morning hours. 

----

Nsweet - She goes because she has no reason not to. She went straight from trying to get pregnant with me to a relationship with him (which was admittedly developing for a few months), with no stops in between. It's like she just traded, rather than going through the typical stages of a relationship. She wants that relationship I think, but doesn't want to have to develop it all over again. 

I still think she hadn't made up her mind when I caught her, so when I did she was forced to commit to it. It's the only thing that explains her moving me to new town, buying fertility stuff, and some other things that happened just a few weeks before D-day. 

Exercise is definitely helping. I'm in the best shape of my life being only 10 lbs more than I was when I started college, and much more muscular. Unfortunately I hurt my knee running the other day. I'm hoping it will heal this weekend so I can stay in schedule for my marathon training. 

I've got to figure out a hobby hat lets me meet people. Not knowing anyone or having friends to hang out with in my new city sucks. I know I've only been here two weeks now, but I'm ready to get that circle going. Just not sure how to do it. 

The last time I was concerned about making friends and meeting girls I was a teenager.  

I wish I still like video gaming. I did that quite a bit over the last decade, but completely lost interest after d-day. Was a great way to waste a hour or two.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> I wish I still like video gaming. I did that quite a bit over the last decade, but completely lost interest after d-day. Was a great way to waste a hour or two.


I'm right there with you Lost. Since discovery I haven't been able to sit down and enjoy more than one round of MW3 or BF3 at a time. Same with TV. I think this is due to how I was using these things to escape when deep down I knew something was off, but refused to see it. stbxw's big complaint is that I would dismiss her in order to do these things, and she isn't wrong about that. While she has clearly been in the affair fog, I was in a kind of fog myself before and during the affair. I know this because I am so much more self-aware and clear headed and these activities have been knocked back down on my priority list where they should have stayed all along. 

Same with alcohol. I wouldn't say I am a raging alcoholic, but I did indulge more than I should have and in the last year we both were drinking too much, which led to more arguments. And during those nights it really was a truth serum. The crap that came out of her mouth was astounding and cruel. And I naively blamed it all on the alcohol and did a lot of rug sweeping. A week or two without and then I'd buy another bottle to distract myself from the emotional wounds and try to have a good time with wifey. We'd have a great night and then too far into the bottle and she'd lash out again. 

I haven't brought home hard alcohol since the first morning I woke alone. And I haven't had as much as a beer in a week. And it hasn't been that hard. I don't want it. I need to feel this. I've processed more emotions in the last week than I have in a month. 

Have been doing really well with the 180 lately but had a slight slip up just this morning. stbxw came home last night and asked my opinion about her going to my niece's bday party today. "I really want to see my niece and nephew, but I don't want to cause tension at a kids bday". She kept trying to get me to make the decision for her. I told her I wouldn't. "My opinion is you should go if you want to. Will it be awkward? Will there be tension? Of course there will. But that comes with your decision to divorce. You aren't just divorcing me. After it's final they WON'T be your niece and nephew. EVERYTHING will change. Our family photo on grandma's wall WILL be replaced with one of just me and D6. And it's not my place to make the decision about the bday party for you." 

That wasn't the slip up. That was an honest response to her question. I did good there. I wasn't emotional. I stayed rational. I went to bed on the couch upstairs and woke at 8am and saw a text from her "I think it's too soon for the party. Gut says no. I can't help but feel like the bad guy here. No place for a bad guy in a family celebration." 

I got up to go downstairs and start bfast and she was just barely coming upstairs to go to bed. We passed on the stairs and she stopped to repeat to me the contents of the text. She'd clearly been up all night stressing and crying about it. All I wanted to do was grab her and hold her. But I still remained calm and just said ok. I went down and out onto the patio to reflect. And then I broke down. Long hard sobs. Empathy sobs for her pain, and also many for my own. Fell back into the "How could she do this and just walk away from us all" trap. And right then as I was finishing she stepped out onto the patio. I collected myself but it must have been completely obvious to her what I was doing out there. She saw my pain. There was no way around it. 

I hope the day gets better. I need to chin up and prep myself to have a good time at the party without her. Here I go.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Vi - definitely feeling it, but at least it's anger/betrayal at this point. Woke up at 3:50 on a freaking Saturday (went to bed at 11). Just woke up angry at her. I guess when you spend the majority of your time trying not to think about the situation you will eventually get cracks in your mental armor and get a flood of emotion all at once.
> 
> Other than wishing I could go back to sleep I'm doing ok laying in bed with my iPad though. Thank god for TAM or I wouldn't know what to do with these early morning hours.
> 
> ...


I went months waking up around 3:30-4 am on the dot every day....every. fricken.day. even if I went to bed at midnight or 1am. The anxiety was so bad...awful. I would just wake up and sit straight up in bed wide awake. It does take time for that to subside but I tell you what...it's nice when you do finally sleep like a rock every night :smthumbup:

As for meeting people - have you tried searching Meetup for some interest groups? I know there are running groups near me on there. What else do you like to do? I joined a photography and hiking and tennis meetup. Just to talk and meet new people, try new things. 

Oh and if you want to attract a lady, don't get sucked back into vid games


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Zill - I may have done the same thing with the gaming ... Especially towards the end. I think I knew something was up, I just couldn't believe it. We were both just traveling so much. 

The day will get better Zill, and every day after that. BUT you have to get out of there. Even if it is to eventually R , I truly believe you can't heal a relationship without fully understanding what losing it means. 

I've come to terms what losing it means. I have no clue if my stbxw has. I have a feeling that if she eventually breaks up with this posOM, she'll be dealing with losing him, AND the realization that she lost her marriage for nothing. All at the same time. 

Vi - I can't wait to sleep in. Last weekend slept until 7:30 once, but that was after a full day of unpacking then working out. 

As for meeting people, I'm planning on joining the running and cycling clubs at the gym in Jan (no point in joining for dec since I'm about to leave for Xmas).

So ... And I'll probably get yelled at for this ... But I may have signed up for one of those dating sites. I just wanted to see if I might get any interest at all. I mean, I haven't been "out there" in over a decade. 

I've been messaged three times in the hour since I signed up. Not sure what to do with that. I mean I feel great, and these girls are young and very pretty, but how do I know it's not my income that they are interested in? 

I mean it wouldn't hurt to meet someone, right? I definitely could use some human interaction other than from work and I'd really like to start making a circle of friends here. 

Thoughts?


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Ummm, so I have a date tomorrow. Wtf am I doing?


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Ummm, so I have a date tomorrow. Wtf am I doing?


I don't have an answer for you...but been following along... 

I'm laughing...not at you...but 'with' you...

oh honey... haha... dude...you are such a dmn trip!


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Ummm, so I have a date tomorrow. Wtf am I doing?


Now the STBXW will start to fade....... :smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Ummm, so I have a date tomorrow. Wtf am I doing?


Do it up, man! Just don't get attached.


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

put condoms in your wallet...


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Most importantly, don't think about it. Blurt. Have fun!


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Oh no. No condoms. I'm not there yet.

I'm excited and scared out of my damn gourd. I've got 12 years of rust to shake off. This girl seems amazing... And she is easy on the eyes too. It's a lunch thing so at least I should know wether I have a new friend, something more or the same as I've had by 1pm or so. 

I just spent $200 getting more stuff for my apartment. I am not ready for guests of the opposite sex yet. I was planning on replacing a bunch of the furniture (I took mostly the old stuff and left the good stuff for the stbxw) ... Still need to hang pics, unpack more boxes. Ugh.

My best friend just gave me a pep talk on the phone. It was pretty funny considering she has been with her husband for 16 years (they got together when she was 16), other than having a girls prospective she can't know that much more than me.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost



> But I *may* have signed up for one of those dating sites.


The "may"part is funny.

At least you admitted to the date.

Will you just go with no expectations and have a nice conversation with the girl.

And do not fall in love with the first girl on the first date of your new life!!!!

And lost, have a good time and be yourself.

And, and, and no they are not after your money....yet! That happens after the fourth date. :rofl:

Let us know how it goes. Take a pic and update your FB when you feel like being wicked.:FIREdevil:

Good Luck

HM64


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Vi - definitely feeling it, but at least it's anger/betrayal at this point. Woke up at 3:50 on a freaking Saturday (went to bed at 11). Just woke up angry at her. I guess when you spend the majority of your time trying not to think about the situation you will eventually get cracks in your mental armor and get a flood of emotion all at once.
> 
> Other than wishing I could go back to sleep I'm doing ok laying in bed with my iPad though. Thank god for TAM or I wouldn't know what to do with these early morning hours.
> 
> ...


Hmmm...... her actions sound strangely familiar to what my borderline waif ex wife did with me. Normally you'd expect for there to be a sexless marriage stage before she starts cheating and then mopes around acting like a sad sack before pressuring you into many fights she can use for leverage as "It's all your fault!". 

But when things move this quickly......... I'd almost hesitate to guess it was after you stopped putting her needs ahead of yours stopped jumping through her hoops, wanting this to be an equal partnership that she went out trying to entangle her next victim into a pregnancy trap (probably selling him some lie about being afraid of her abusive husband).

Something about that just doesn't seem like what an average cheating woman would do. Because they usually try to stay on the fence for a while and have their husbands treat them special while they play with another man.

Not all affairs are like this but the majority have quite a bit of cake-eating and empty promises before the cheater leaves. 


I have to ask you was your wife depressed a lot and did she seem to always have a low self esteem? Did she ever seem hesitant to have you do something nice for her almost like she felt she wasn't worth it? And as a follow up, did she blame you a majority of the time and have you apologize for little things that shouldn't even matter..... like apologizing for flirting with a waitress when you did no such thing.

I've been there before. Do not push yourself when you come back from a knee, hip, shoulder, or elbow injury. Use periodization cycling training and come back to work out at about 50% and milk your strength slowly over time. You honestly don't want a blow out because joints take forever to heal, and often enough that knee will take years to fully recover. I messed my knee up playing hockey and it still slips when I sit too long making plane trips miserable. 

Well there ya go! You can meet friends on an online game chat and play some multiplayer games in your spare time. It may not seem like much but it should be safe enough for you to come out of your divorce shell a little and still be fun. Just try to keep it to a minimum or else you end up putting off workouts and real human interaction for quests and team matches. At this point anything little you do to talk to other people will be fine even if it's just chatting here and talking to a friend on the phone everyday. In a few weeks you can try breaking out and socializing little by little. The way I did it was I used to say hi to one extra pretty girl a day until I felt confident to say more. Six months passed and I..... I did a lot more than say hi, but that was only after taking it slow and not worrying too much about social stuff. And all that reading I did made me very intellectual.


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## ilou (Oct 25, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Ummm, so I have a date tomorrow. Wtf am I doing?


Apparently you're trying to have fun


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

So, interesting fact: I slept till almost 7 today. Not sure if its the impending lunch or the White Russian I made myself. I'm leaning towards the beast-from-the-east. 

HM - good advice as always. So far the three girls in talking to are all the same age (and all a bit younger than I was planning on) and all hold masters degrees. Kinda strange huh? The bright side is since they hold MAs too they should have a similar earning potential. 

Definitely not looking for love yet. Just friendship and companionship. If more develops, great, but right now just having someone to do stuff with would be great. 

Not sure how to "be myself" anymore. Too much of who I was involved being a married man and the stbxw's partner. I'm still discovering the rest. 

Nsweet - some of that, yes,and some no. It definitely wasn't a sexless marriage even in the days immediately before d-day. However I noticed something "off" that week. I think that is subconsciously what let to me finding out. 

I'm guessing it was a mix of the travel for both of us (saw each other about two weeks those last 2 months) and the miscarriage. After being baby-crazy (as my checkbook would show) for about a year, when I last spoke with her she was saying she's not sure, and that she wants to wait a few years before thinking about kids again. I think that's bs and I fully expect her to get pregnant if she's with posOM for a year or so (and fertility works). 

My wife had body image issues, which was weird as she was in great shape. She apparently was struggling with anorexia (didn't find out till after d-day and she always ate well around me). She wasn't particular low self-esteem otherwise though. Very successful in her career and otherwise. 

I do think she had low self esteem for her body though and that is likely where the draw of the younger guy came from.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Let me correct your thinking.

Yes she had low self esteem. Period!

The body self consciousness is part of it. Successful at her job has nothing to do with it.

Stop talking about her new relationship. It is doomed. In time you will see.

And how tobe you. Easy.

Be honest.
Be forthright.
Be clear about your new goals.
Be a gentleman (just a little).
Have fun.
Be no longer,, Lost.......

Today might be the day you are found!!!


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

LIS - go and have fun with no expectations. This will be at least good "practice" for you.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

No expectations is the best advice. Its once you start getting expectations than feelings can get hurt or you may be disappointed. Just go out, have fun and don't care about what happens or doesn't happen. It takes the pressure off that way if you keep things friendly and light hearted. Oh and with no expectations


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Had a great time. Talked a lot and found that we had a bunch in common. 

Not knowing the rules is the hard part. I brought up doing something later this week and she said, yes. Now I to figure out what that should be. I want it to be interesting, but laid back. Will take some thought. 

So I don't know if the stbxw has spies or what but she texted me this morning. She did the typical "hope you are having a great weekend" type thing then asked about the NC and sent me something about family.

I told her I was out and would get back to her tonight. I probably should have stayed dark, but in light (haha) of the events of the last few days, I feel like she deserves to hear from me on the NC... I just don't know what I want. 

Half of me wants to say that I don't think staying in contact with her is fair to anyone else if I ever start to move on. I also want to point out that after what she did, she isn't the type of friend I want. Also, what do we have to talk about ... Most of her communications are stuff that can replied to with "k" ... I know she is just trying to stay in touch with me with those sorts of things. 

The other side of the coin is that I really don't hate her. I hate what she did. We were together for 12 years though, and they were almost entirely good years. We were the type that made other couples jealous ... Just so put together. I feel like I'd want to be there if she ever truly needed anything. 

Just not sure what I should do. Am I moved on enough to be friendly? Would that be fair to a new relationship should one form? 

So strange.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost

2x4's coming your way.

Glad your date went well.

Now wise up. Your SZtBXW is not your friend. Friends do not screw you.

Time for new friends.

And just think how it will sound when you get close to the next woman in your life and she learns that your "friends" with your Ex that screwed you over.

Not a pretty picture. Detach, detach, detach.

Again I will repeat for your benefit.

Your future lies ahead of you. Face forward and stop looking back over your shoulder.

There is nothing behind you to see........


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Indeed. I'll let the stbxw know tonight. She deserves to know that I a trying to go NC so she doesn't keep wasting her time. 

May have found a bump in the road with getting to know the new girl better. We bantered a bit since I got home and she asked at one point if I was married. I told her the truth : separated and D in Jan most likely (my profile says separated so I guess she didn't read that), haven't heard back. 

Quite the bummer, she was cool and I was hoping for at least a friendship out of this. Maybe I need to wait until the paperwork is complete to try to talk to any girls. That sucks. 

Stbxw still screwing up my life.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Indeed. I'll let the stbxw know tonight. She deserves to know that I a trying to go NC so she doesn't keep wasting her time.
> 
> May have found a bump in the road with getting to know the new girl better. We bantered a bit since I got home and she asked at one point if I was married. I told her the truth : separated and D in Jan most likely (my profile says separated so I guess she didn't read that), haven't heard back.
> 
> ...



Stop.

You told he truth. It is up to he young lady if that is a deal breaker or not.

Just ask her out agin later this week. The worst thing she can say is no.

Again, it is just coffee and someone to talk to.

Be cool, calm and confident. 

Oh yeah, and over the Ex.

Now do you understand why you need the ex out of the picture???

Keep moving forward.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Now wise up. Your SZtBXW is not your friend. Friends do not screw you.
> 
> Time for new friends.


Right. I told my stbxw last night that I wanted no contact unless it regards our daughter. Said I have no interest being friends but I will be civil and cordial in regards to co-parenting.

As much as I long for her affection, validation, etc, she has not been friendly. Friends are honest with each other. Friends are empathetic. Friends treat each other with respect. 

By cheating, lying, betraying, and refusing to rebuild trust, the DS treats the BS no better than an enemy.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks HM. Just needed something good to happen. 

I think I'll wait until the D is final to talk to anyone else. It's difficult enough to be dating without having this new wrinkle in the mix. I'm finding that while I want some companionship, I am not at a point where I want a new roller coaster. 

The up was good but I feel like crap now as I feel like I somehow misled this poor girl. She asked me if I had kids so I just assumed she had seen the separated tag.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

So true Zill. Typing it now. Still not fun.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Agreed, keep the wife in the dark as much as possible. 

Your safest bet is to just ignore her "Hey, what's up" or "How are you?" messages and anything about the relationship because these are often, well spam. That is she tries to get a response from you, any response, but only so she can get the ego boost and know you can still be reached. 

A little tip. Use the lines women use on us like "I'm sleeping", "IDK", "maybe", "K", and "Nope" to communicate you're still alive but keep her at an arms length making her wonder what you're doing. Believe me this will upset her but it will also make her try harder to get your interest. 

And always your best bet when doing the 180 is to just put your phoine down or throw it in a drawer and go do something else for a while. Take at least an hour to respond to her texts and only during the hours of the day you "feel like it" .

I also feel I have to point out her life must be pretty boring if she feels the need to see what you're doing, make you jealous, or deliver what's known as "lazy communication". Use your best judgement and ignore her pathetic attempts to reach out to you. You don't have kids so there is really no excuse for her to pull an emergency guilt trip. 

I bet you anything she won't be able to handle you going completely dark on her for 6-8 full weeks..... That is if you've squared away the divorce and are just awaiting your court date. Be prepared for the hoover! - I'm just warning you up front about it, but after going completely dark she'll want you until she has you and then she'll keep you at bay again and again and again.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Well, I sent her a pretty long text back explaining that I don't see a reason to stay in touch and that I was moving on with my life. It may have been 3 text pages, so by pretty long, I mean like 3 small paragraphs or so. 

I felt like she deserved that from me out of respect for what we had. 

Of course her reply was nice but included bits like "I felt taken for granted" and "why you couldn't show the life you wanted to me". Which was weird as all I said is basically I was doing good, moving on, wanted NC, and couldn't be friends because I would likely never forgive her affair. 

I know she was just throwing stuff at me but it egged me on enough for one last reply from me saying that if she were unhappy she had owed it to me to tell me (I thought we were happy and it was all I love yous the week prior to the bomb). I also told her there was no excuse for her affair. 

The reply from her was that she wouldn't make excuses and that I should show the next person I'm with how I feel. Considering how much we did together and that I was always the affectionate one, I'll never understand that line. 

The bright side is it didn't bother me. I'm truly feeling good. I wish I wasn't at this point in life, but I'm past the point of being upset. I know I didn't do anything that would lead to a divorce, especially with no previous comments from her, so I'm good with myself. 

It also helps that my lady friend is still in touch. I didn't blow it apparently. Who knows where it is going, but I'm just thrilled to have a potential friend in town.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

EX blameshift
EX clearing the track
EX puts on running shoes
EX prepping to pursue (wait n see)


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost

Your wife is full of crap. But cheaters always are. It is how they deal with the guilt. They make it all "your" fault.

As for the new girl, I told you so.......

Have fun and stay Lost until the D.

Life is going to get interesting for you Lost.

HM64


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> I felt like she deserved that from me out of respect for what we had.


She threw away and disrespected you and what you had. Not you. What does she really deserve?


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Its a hard one, the person you KNEW deserved it, the person she is now does not. That's what i have to tell myself too. Then again, if she was still the person you KNEW, you wouldnt be here to begin with.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

zillard said:


> She threw away and disrespected you and what you had. Not you. What does she really deserve?


Zillion and Gary, you are right of course, but I feel good with the decision I made. It cost me nothing to be up front with her and now I don't have to worry about game-playing. 

HM and Chuck - indeed on the blame shifting. I recognize it ... Just still find it annoying. The trick is that it is annoying and not upsetting now =). 

Definitely getting there. 

It helps that I just scheduled a second outing with my friend for tomorrow night. Went with something simple that has very little commitment. If it goes well, I'll point out that there is a nice restaurant across the street. =)


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

LIS-Now that she said she felt taken for granted......here are the next three
-i felt like you didn't love me
-i felt you were pushing me away
-i felt alone
it's clockwork dude....


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Zillion and Gary, you are right of course, but I feel good with the decision I made. It cost me nothing to be up front with her and now I don't have to worry about game-playing.


The important thing here is what makes YOU feel better. So good. 

As long as you can recognize the guilt hooks for what they are.

Glad to hear about your meetup tomorrow. I was going to tell you earlier, don't over analyze during conversations/meetups with her. She may not have responded right away because of any number of reasons. Put yourself out there, honestly, regardless of what others think. If you get a response at least you know they are interested in the real you!

Of course it's easier for me to say than do. I have no idea how I'll react to single life yet. Not quite there yet.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> LIS-Now that she said she felt taken for granted......here are the next three
> -i felt like you didn't love me
> -i felt you were pushing me away
> -i felt alone
> it's clockwork dude....


ding
ding
ding
ding

don't forget "stuck"


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

If I had $1 for every guy who told me their ex told them that........I would own Key West


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

zillard said:


> Of course it's easier for me to say than do. I have no idea how I'll react to single life yet. Not quite there yet.


I didn't think so either Zill. But I had a friend shame me into trying. What didi have to lose ... Right? 

So an interesting observation:what I'm feeling right now, giddy, alive, better than I remember feeling in YEARS... This is the fog folks. 

This is what all the STBX's that cheated got out of their EAs. I honestly can't remember ever feeling this excited. Logically I KNOW I felt this way about my wife once, but after 12 years I've forgotten it. Don't get me wrong, i love her (who she was, not who she became). But i don't feel like I need her now. 

The human brain is an amazingly resilient thing.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Yes Lost. The brain is an amazing organ.

Use that organ for now.

Take your time. And start to enjoy life again.

Have fun on your date.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> I didn't think so either Zill. But I had a friend shame me into trying. What didi have to lose ... Right?


That's a good friend!

I have a friend from HS that I haven't seen in a few years, even though we both live in the same area now (a few states over from where we grew up). stbxw hates him because he's a ladies man, fitness instructor type. So of course I had listened to her and stopped hanging out with him - dumb move. 

He's dragging me out Saturday night, right after I get done helping stbxw move out. Will be good to have a player as a wingman, help me ease back into single life. 

So rough that you've got to do it alone Lost. *How'd the date go?*


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

It went fantastic. Two hours turned to four, turned to six and now I get to spend the rest of the day fighting to keep my eyes open at my desk. Totally worth it. =)

She a fantastic person, and is confident, highly educated, outgoing, funny and caring... And breathtakingly beautiful. Sad to know that between my plans this week and leaving town on Friday for Xmas, that I won't see her for at least 10 days. 

I'm glad you are getting back out there Zill. People are right when they say it makes a night and day difference. You just feel alive again. 

HM - no worries. I'm taking it very slow. Actually my biggest concern now is showing that I'm interested in progressing the relationship (hand holding or a kiss) with now clue how to initiate it. I'm 99.9% sure I'm picking up the right signals from her. Just very little experience in this and that experience is more than a decade old.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> It went fantastic. Two hours turned to four, turned to six and now I get to spend the rest of the day fighting to keep my eyes open at my desk. Totally worth it. =)
> 
> She a fantastic person, and is confident, highly educated, outgoing, funny and caring... And breathtakingly beautiful. Sad to know that between my plans this week and leaving town on Friday for Xmas, that I won't see her for at least 10 days.
> 
> ...


Again, try not to over analyze. Just have fun and if the moment feels right...

What's the absolute worst that could happen? You lose someone you just met. You are already learning to cope with a much bigger loss. Piece of cake.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

haha so true. My bigger concern when i start back dating is not to latch on to the first one...or worse, have her latch on to me. I generally get along with almost anyone.

Sounds like your doing great LIS...the image in your mirror gets smaller and smaller with every mile you walk away....


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> LIS-Now that she said she felt taken for granted......here are the next three
> -i felt like you didn't love me
> -i felt you were pushing me away
> -i felt alone
> it's clockwork dude....


Check.
Check.
Check.
Check.

Oh... don't forget, "I felt like you didn't understand me any more."



Pb.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> Check.
> Check.
> Check.
> Check.
> ...


Got that one too. Even got, in between sobs, "Please, please don't do to the next one what you did to me. Don't keep her at arms length."

Immediately followed by, "me kissing another man was merely inappropriate". :scratchhead:


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

The bright side is I really will pay more attention to the little things with future girls.I think I did a pretty good job before, but there is always room for improvement. 

Zill - unfortunately analytical is one of my top 3 strengths. Telling me not to analyze is like telling me not to think at all =P
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Here are a few more
-you didn't show your devotion to me
-your love never match my love
-we never were on the same page
-emotionally, you have changed
just a few from my BS vault


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> The bright side is I really will pay more attention to the little things with future girls.I think I did a pretty good job before, but there is always room for improvement.
> 
> Zill - unfortunately analytical is one of my top 3 strengths. Telling me not to analyze is like telling me not to think at all =P
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That IS a bright side! I'm looking forward to doing that. I've learned so much in the last two months about marriage and myself. I seriously feel like I'm already a better man, father and future hubby to some lucky woman.

I get the analytical thing, that's why I repeat it (probably more for myself than for you to be honest). 

I got the "Strengths Finder 2.0" book by Tom Rath a while back. 

1. Context
2. Achiever
3. Analytical
4. Relator
5. Harmony


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I love strngths finder! 

1)Strategic
2) Input
3) Analytical
4) Intellection
5) Ideation

... And now you know why I analyze everything to. Death =)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

LIS-I have a clue you could balance the budget in DC lol


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I asked and they made some comments about letting people with PR degrees anywhere near a budget. Never mind the MBA... =P
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

So I seem to have somehow turned off the girl I was courting. No clue how, as the last date lasted until after midnight (from 6). I think I lack the mysterious/ bad boy side that women are all looking for (even though half swear they want a nice decent stable guy). 

Definitely a bit depressing as this girl was pretty awesome. I've got two more dates with two other women lined up for when I get back from vacation, though, so I guess I'll have to stay positive. 

I think I'm too available. No clue how to fix that, it's just how I am. My friends (mostly women) love me to death and always go on about how nice a guy I am, but as we all know, no women truly wants a nice guy. Good education, great salary, treats them well? Nope, would rather have the druggie or bad boy so they can fix them. 

/ rant. 

I just exhausted by this. I'm too damn lonely to be any good at being alone, and just too clueless on how to correctly date anymore. 

I'm not suicidal or anything, but I really am lacking a purpose. I don't like that, but I really don't know what the point is anymore.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost

Patience. Direction and focus come in time.

As fars as the hottie.

here is a clue.

ignore her. If she reaches out great. If not, no big deal.

When I started dating my wife. She told me to meet her out one night. She ended going to 3 different bars with her GF's.

I was pissed. So I did not return her calls for a few days. No texting then.

So I returned her call in a few days and she was mad. I told her not too waste my time. If she wanted to date me then date me. I was not going to chase her from bar to bar.

I told her I was too f'ing busy to play games.

That made her think. She was not used to that.

Do do your own thing. Plenty of fish in the sea. It takes time to get your equilibrium back so be patient and have fun.

And do not play their games........

Happy Holidays Lost!


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Patience LIS. Patience.

Plenty of girls to choose from, just take your time and make they chase you not the other way around.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

HM64=Mr. Miagi (sp) from karate kid....speaks truth


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> So I seem to have somehow turned off the girl I was courting. No clue how, as the last date lasted until after midnight (from 6). I think I lack the mysterious/ bad boy side that women are all looking for (even though half swear they want a nice decent stable guy).
> 
> Definitely a bit depressing as this girl was pretty awesome. I've got two more dates with two other women lined up for when I get back from vacation, though, so I guess I'll have to stay positive.
> 
> ...


That's where you're wrong. Women don't get into relationships with bad boys because they think they can fix them...... although some actually do. Women get into relationships and stay with bad
boys because their intermittent kindness floods the brain with dopamine giving her a temporary high she will chase after through months or years of abuse. And yes scientists have recently proven this. 

If you want to attract a woman and keep, without being an abnoxious douche, her here is how........ 

*1. Set boundaries before anything else and make a 20/20 list of 20 good things you are looking for and 20 bad things that you can't stand in women.* 

If the good out weighs the bad then go for it, but if she has more flaws than you care to put up with, keep looking. AND set the relationship rules on your terms..... 

*2. Take your time!*
You be the one to decide when to say "I love you" after she's proven herself to be love worthy, and you be the one to decide when you feel you can trust her enough to have sex without fearing she will trap you with pregnancy and child support, or give you an STD - It helps to take your time and get to know her first. It also driven women crazy to know they can't have you as quickly as every other guy.

3. Only pursue her when she deserves your love. 
The secret here every bad boy understands is that as long as she is the cold woman and you want that, you’re never going to get the warm woman. You’ve got to reject the cold woman, before she will respect you and turn into the warm woman. As long as the man is pursuing the cold woman, the hostile woman, she never changes toward him in becoming the warm woman. But if he acts indifferent, not interested in her because she is a cold woman, she immediately begins to respect him. Because she knows that she does not deserve any catering, loving treatment that he’s desperate to give her. So she just disrespects him for pursuing her.

This as I have said before is the secret that will help turn you from a nice guy wimp into an astoundingly assertive nice guy women want to date. You have to learn that women are going to test you repeatedly before they decide to sleep with you or even get into a relationship and it's your mental outlook that will determine how she treats you differently than all her other platonic friends. 

Now there are a lot, in fact hundreds of dating books from so called "pick up artists" that basically say the same thing, but the only thing you have to keep in mind in the dating world is if she treats you like a girlfriend and gives you one of her BS lines about needing "time and space" or "doesn't know how she feels about you" she can be replaced in a heart beat by a woman who is looking for what you have to offer exactly. There are 7 BILLION people on this planet, roughly 3.5 BILLION WOMEN. It only takes ONE good woman who you can get along with to start over and raise a family with, just ONE. Not one in a million mind you, or a soulmate from birth, you have a greater chance of finding a woman you can pair bond with than you do of getting the flu this year. Now what's that tell you about the odds?

P.S. The only thing from experience I can give you about dating that will carry you far is that you always want to make sure your last interaction with them is positive, and don't go chasing women for sex because at some point they do talk at one point and you don't want a bad name for yourself. So long as you try to leave them with a last positive interaction they will remember you in a positive light..... And whatever you do take it slow. No 40 minute or hour long phone calls everyday when you just met last week. Keep her on a need to know basis at arms length and let her be the one to ask you about your hobbies.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks guys. I guess I'm more aggravated by not knowing the "rules" of the game. It makes me not want to play, you know? 

I think patience would be easier to come by if I wasn't totally alone in this city. I'm making friends pretty quick (went out with the guys last night and have a new triathlete buddy out of it) , but I'm finding that being single is like how I was in HS (the last time I was single incidentally). I need a TON of friends to make up for not having that key person in my life. 

I just don't do well with just me. I admire those people who are good by themselves, but that has never been me. 

Oh and patience? Not my strong suit. Great trait for my career ... Horrible trait for just about anything else. I'm a meticulous planner and analyzer (see my strengths ). I have to know what comes next... And now there isn't a next. 

So I'm going home to see my family tomorrow night and will be at our vacation home that I'm not sure ill get cell/ Internet reception at. I'll prolly post tomorrow morning and then I'll be gone for a week. 

I hope everyone have a great holiday. Take care and stay strong all. 

-LiS


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Thanks guys. I guess I'm more aggravated by not knowing the "rules" of the game. It makes me not want to play, you know?
> 
> I think patience would be easier to come by if I wasn't totally alone in this city. I'm making friends pretty quick (went out with the guys last night and have a new triathlete buddy out of it) , but I'm finding that being single is like how I was in HS (the last time I was single incidentally). I need a TON of friends to make up for not having that key person in my life.
> 
> ...


I can help you if you have any questions over the little stuff. 

Or I could send you a ton of ebooks and other resources through email. 

It's only hard until you get the hang of it and learn to work with your natural character. I wouldn't advise you act like a jerk if your real self is a nice guy sweetheart. All it takes is a few changes over time to get you the dating success you're looking for. I can even show you the algorithm I came up with along with the geeked out diagram I memorized to take me from dating dud to banging strippers....... but seriously I don't recommend doing this, you just got over one crazy chick and you don't need a worse one.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> So I'm going home to see my family tomorrow night and will be at our vacation home that I'm not sure ill get cell/ Internet reception at. I'll prolly post tomorrow morning and then I'll be gone for a week.
> 
> I hope everyone have a great holiday. Take care and stay strong all.
> 
> -LiS


Enjoy the time with your family. Decompress. Eat. A lot. And have an awesome Xmas Lost. :smthumbup:

Also pick up "No More Mister Nice Guy".


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I hope you have a nice time with your family, Lost. Relax. Have some fun and have a lovely holiday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks Nsweet - I'll be taking you up on that. My confidence level are all over the place lately. Two days ago I'm getting a phone number at a basketball game and today I just want to be done with dating. I did some mental math and realized I've only been single for about 6 months since I was 15. Sheesh, I really DO have no experience at this. 

Definitely going to get NMMNG Zill. I've known I had that "problem" for a long time. It's just not the type of thing I was raised to see as a problem. You know?

Angel - you too. I hope all is well. 

Definitely looking forward to seeing my family. It's been about two years as I've been busy with work and my MBA. Finally finished school so now I can take some vacation again. Hopefully I can be sufficiently distracted to be ready to start over when I get back.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Enjoy your family and I will make one more suggestion.

Lay off TAm for the vacation.

Just get away from it all.....

We will be here when you get back.


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> So I seem to have somehow turned off the girl I was courting. No clue how, as the last date lasted until after midnight (from 6). I think I lack the mysterious/ bad boy side that women are all looking for (even though half swear they want a nice decent stable guy).
> 
> Definitely a bit depressing as this girl was pretty awesome. I've got two more dates with two other women lined up for when I get back from vacation, though, so I guess I'll have to stay positive.
> 
> ...


LIS - my advice to you is to build your own life first and then pursue relationships that complement your life. You've just moved into this new city so your focus should be establishing "you" first. Make friends, find activities you enjoy, join a church if that's your thing, etc. This will give you an identity of who LIS is. Then I think you would be ready for a new relationship. From your posts, it seems like maybe you haven't ever really defined yourself as an individual. Once you do, relationships become a part of your life and not your life so if things work, great, and if not, that's OK, too which relieves the pressure of making a date "the one" to complete you.

You've done a great job moving through your D process and I know you will be a great catch for someone one day.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

And, LIS -- don't give up on all women, 'K? I for one (and I doubt I'm alone in this) have absolutely NO desire to get involved with a bad boy/druggie/a$$hole. A lot of women, however, have never really dealt with anything but these kinds of guys in their lives, and they don't know how to be around someone who doesn't treat them like crap. Sadly, _that_ is their 'normal.' 

Many of us are working on getting to a new normal. Hang in there.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Amazing advice, as always guys. I'm definitely not chasing for sex. Not to overshare, but strangely enough I haven't had much of a libido since finding out about the wife's affair. Not to say I don't appreciate attractive women, just that I'd rather spend time with them in non sexual ways at the moment. 

And don't worry about phone calls either. These girls are all the texting generation (oddly enough, all three are 27). Not sure what the rules to texting frequency are though. 

Soca - too true. I've always been defined by my friends and sig others. It makes me a great friend, but a horribly lonely person alone. I've worked on it a little, but I still tend to find anything interesting that someone else does. The bright side is it means I have very diverse interests now. I'm just so much happier with someone than without. It makes it hard to pass up those opportunities when they present themselves. 

And angel, I know its not all women, but it is a surprising majority I think. I think it comes from the emotional minded nature of women. But hell, I'm obviously not expert on women!!!

HM - ill take that advice. I think I just need a week to assess and decompress.

Talk to you all in a week. I hope you all have a great Christmas. Thank you for your friendship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

So, I'm back. Had a great Xmas week and two good dates since I've been back. Unfortunately I feel worse all of the sudden. I think part of it is realizing the girl I really like is playing games. The rest ... I don't know. 

I can say this: even though I like meeting new people, dating sucks. I don't know the rules. I'm moving way too slow (didn't try to kiss the girl last night on 3rd date) and that must be a turn off. 

I just want the right person, you know? I've always been a serial monogamist. I realized that I've been single for about a year total since I was 14... Almost 20 years ago. 

Maybe I should be ok being just me ... But I just feel lonely and incomplete. Anyone else feel like this? 

I'll write nmore later. Meeting a male friend for a quick dinner. I cancelled my date tonight. I'm juat not into it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> So, I'm back. Had a great Xmas week and two good dates since I've been back. Unfortunately I feel worse all of the sudden. I think part of it is realizing the girl I really like is playing games. The rest ... I don't know.
> 
> I can say this: even though I like meeting new people, dating sucks. I don't know the rules. I'm moving way too slow (didn't try to kiss the girl last night on 3rd date) and that must be a turn off.
> 
> ...


Welcome back LIS! Glad to hear you had a good Xmas and have had more dates. 

1 year single since your teens sure isn't much time to yourself. I agree. That should show you that you are a catch, but being comfortable with who you are is very important for long term happiness. 

I also don't have much interest in picking up a lay at the moment. Well, sort of. I think it would do me some good but at the same time think I would feel a little dirty being so fresh out the gate (or more accurately halfway out). I am heading out to look and meet people tonight though. Baby steps. 

I say don't worry about "rules". Live by your rules. Be honest and you and refuse to play games. The right one will respect that.


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## dzd&confused (Nov 27, 2012)

LIS- we are in very similar situations and age. In fact I see alot of me in you regarding family ambitions etc. the biggest difference is it took me far to long to get the info I needed to do what I needed to do.

I completely relate about the dating scene though I'm personally no where near that.

What do you mean by playing games? And what exactly are you looking for in the dating world right now? 
You say your a serial monogomist but are you really looking to find your next wife right now? If you are that's cool but it dosnt have to be the first person you go out with. Really the best advice is to have no expectations, be yourself and monst importantly be honest with yourself and her about what your looking for. If you don't know what your looking for maybe it's to soon? Tell her you like her but want to go slow... OR.. You are not looking for a commitment but wanna 'get together' once in a while. It's all about what YOU want.

I think... I'm rusty myself..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Zill - the concern with the rules is more that I think I don't convey the right messages because I do t know what they are expecting and have no idea how to read their signals. I think they get frustrated and quit.

Last night I had the most beautiful women I've ever been on a date with (former pro football cheerleader and 5 years younger than me) running her foot up my leg and I had no idea what to do with it. We have a great connection, but by the end of the night (3rd date) I'm pretty sure she either thought I wasn't ready, was a prude, or wasn't interested. I wanted to kiss her, but did t see the right opportunity. I need to get her alone somewhere for that ... Public just isn't my thing for affection like that.

Dazed - as for games, I mean we hit it off huge when We are together, every date has gone past midnight on work nights even, but the next day I rarely hear anything from her. I tend to hear from her if I don't contact her for a day or two. its more like keeping me on the line. I know she has many other suitors, but she definitely plays interested with me. 

Last night she dropped hints about spending NY alone (which was bs as I know she has a half dozen other guys chasing her) and. I told her I'd see if my buddies were doing anything special. She liked that idea ... But maybe she wanted me,to introduce her to more people.

Well I find out at work today that my buddies are not doing anything I'd want to take her to, so I tell her that I had no luck, but if she wanted company, I thought a relaxing night together would be more my style anyway. Never heard back from her. 

Am I wrong to be pissed by that? I wouldn't mind at all if she said she had a better offer, but to not reply back at all is disrespectful IMO. Don't leave me hanging. That's why I think she plays games. I'm sure I'll hear from her in a day or two. 

Maybe I'm forcing myself to get "back out there" too quick but I'd really like someone to spend time with and be comfortable around. Being alone is the pits


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## dzd&confused (Nov 27, 2012)

Sounds like the game to me, LIS... Its dating. Not so much the no comm's during the day but the NY offer without a reply seems odd. Should you be pissed? Honestly, no, not worth it. Would be enough to make me keep looking without expectations. That's the beauty of dating. If your already pissed, go for the next one. No questions asked. Though I agree!! I hate how people ignore like that. Its done because they are affraid to tell the truth and are worried about hurting feelings. Don't let it run you down. 

When i reflect back on my relationships prior to meeting my stbxw 9 years ago I was always doing my own thing. Doing what I did, what I enjoyed and opportunities presented themselves. You capitalize when you can, but bottom line is your enjoying life. When I met stbxw I wasn't even looking for a GF. Just happened (but that obviously didn't work out well, maybe I should revisit tactics )
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

It is a game. Get back behind the meat counter and call out the next number.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

The "beauty of dating", hah.  

Some people really do like being out there though, huh? Went to dinner with a buddy of mine (who incidentally has daughters my age, lol) and got to talking about it as well. He was laughing about how he wouldn't wish "dating" on anyone and how one of his daughters played the game as well. 

Just made me realize that there really are two totally different types of people out there.

As far as getting back up to the plate, even though I have two other women who I've gone on a date with who I know I could set up something for today with, I feel more like taking my ball and going home. 

I guess I wasn't quite ready for rejection yet. As I said before, I've been in relationships my entire life basically, and I always went with the safe bet... Heck every girl I dated prior to m wife asked me out, she was the first I pursued. Never been the type to deal with failure well, or to willingly put myself in situations where failure is a possibility if it can be avoided. 

Maybe it's time to find a therapist in my new city.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Get a therapist if you feel confused and need to sort your feelings out.

And I really don't think you have been rejected, remember, to some woman it is a game.

When I was picking up the pieces I dated as well. I had one exceptionally hot GF. We clicked every which way imaginable. I thought if ths is a rebound I could not have been happier.

Then this girl got clingy, meddling too deep with the cheating ex fiancé (can you say jealous over my ex who was out of the picture) and red flags started going off.

I broke up with this girl. Because as giving and hot as she was she needed to grow up.

Then I met my wife. I wanted someone that had high self esteem, was as beautiful on the inside as the outside and was mature. 
So we started dating. She was the only girl that I ever asked for her number.

My exGF could not believe I would date someone like her. I said why? She said she is short, round and not very attractive aka not my type.

What no one realized was that I needed a new type.

When my parents first met her they told me they knew she was the one. I said how did you know? They said you were Happy.

They were right. That was 26 years ago Lost. Good things come out of bad events in our life.

Find the type that is right for you. Rejection happens everyday. I know. I am in sales.

Shrug it off and go onto the next endeavor.

And your next type does not have to be a beautiful, cheerleader party girl! My exf was exactly that.

My type turned out to be short, round in all the right places, loyal like mallard duck (google that) and fiercely protects her husband, honor, children and home like a lioness.

Find those qualities my friend and be happy. You deserve it.

HM64


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

That was a great post, HM64. Very hopeful.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks HM, as always, reading your posts helps. 

I think I'm fairly attractive, I'm in great shape and my recent excursions into dating have been met with girls I thout were out of my league saying I'm good looking. News to me. I know self esteem is an issue for me. 

As for getting rejected, you are probably right. But not hearing back was pretty disrespectful in my opinion. I wouldn't have minded hearing she had a better option or "no thanks", but nothing is incredibly dismissive. Especially considering she had texted me before I could even get home after the date Sunday. I swear, her in person and her via text are two totally different people. One I like a lot and have tons in common with and one I can't stand and want nothing to do with. 

To be shallow for a second - I'd really like to date a girl that I look at and am very attracted to. I've met a few other girls that are sweet, but I wasn't really physically attracted to. Blah, dating sucks!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

One day at a time Lost.

And I agree dating sucks but it gets better.

Remember the goal is to find the one!

And that means weeding out the all the garbage. And when I was dating my wife before all this texting nonsense, seh gaveme the run around as well. I just told her one night that I was busy working all hours of the day and night. My time was limited and valuable.

That if she didn't have the time for me just to tell me so i wouldn't be wasting my time. I told her I was crazy about her but i was done chasing.

Luckily, she got it. I got it too.

So get back up on the horse Lost. Giddee Up!


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## dzd&confused (Nov 27, 2012)

they don't call it the "dating game" for nothing. Important thing is your out there and that in itself is a big step! You should be proud of that regardless of rejections, games or any other BS that goes along with it! Good job LIS. 

hM64- your posts are uplifting, thank you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks guys, it means a lot. 

I find myself crying for the first time in a month tonight. I haven't been so lonely in my life. I wish I was closer to my friends so I could at least drive and see them, but I wonder if that would help. 

If I knew I would be alone for years from now, I don't know if I could take it. I'm not sure what the point of my life is anymore. I mean, everything I've done, I did to give my wife a better life so that we could one day make a better life for our children. 

Now none of that may ever happen. If it doesn't, what's the point? I mean. i have a great career, but what good does that do me? I make money and its useless. It was only ever a vehicle to providing for my family. Now I sit in an empty apartment and wonder what the point of going into work tomorrow is. Why should I be concerned if I land the VP position? What difference would it make? 

I think that is why I had been dating so much. It stops these thoughts when I'm busy doing something else.

2013 better get better in a hurry. It feels too much like the last bit of 2012.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Lost

Of course you did those things for her. You loved her.

guess what? Sh!t happens my friend.

I started a business once in NY City. I focused on very specific customers in a very specific area. World Trade 1,2,4,5,6 and 7.

I thought I was a frickin genius. 

Well you know the rest of the story. I lost my shirt.

But you know what. You get back up. Dust yourself off and get back in the ring.

It does not happen right away. But it will happen.

Keep the faith buddy.

And no matter what do not quit! These are the tests that we judge ourselves by.

Vent here. Cry here.

And be a lion tomorrow. 

I am waiting to hear you roar. Hopefully soon.

But if not just know that us Tammers will be waiting for that positive update that tells us that you are on the road again.

God Luck at work tomorrow. Make 2013 rock!

HM64


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Thanks guys, it means a lot.
> 
> I find myself crying for the first time in a month tonight. I haven't been so lonely in my life. I wish I was closer to my friends so I could at least drive and see them, but I wonder if that would help.
> 
> ...


You are still a person within your own right, and you have your daughters. They need you. Don't base your worth on how your STBXW responds to you. That is the danger that a lot of us got into. If our relationship with that 'someone' ends, then what are we? What does that say about us? 

It says our relationship ended. It doesn't say our worth went away. You were someone before you met her, and you still are someone. You still have all of those talents, and great qualities that you had before. And now you're a dad on top of it. 

Don't give in to the depression you're feeling, LIS. This isn't going to last forever. I'm speaking as someone who's been there, too.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Good words we all need to hear Angelpixie.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks guys. Better again now ... It's amazing how up and down I am still. Went to dinner with the other girl that I've seen more than once. She is very sweet, not as amazingly hot as the other one, but cute none-the-less. The hang up with her is she has a kid ... I'm not against that per se (obviously or I wouldn't have gone out with her in the first place ... And I don't have kids angel, we tried for a long time and I'm petty sure the miscarriage led to our divorce). I just don't really know how I feel about raising someone else's kid and I am a little paranoid that women with kids are looking for someone with money to be a dad, not necessarily looking for me, for me, you know? 

I'm still seeing her though, so I'll see where it goes.

The other one is definitely playing games. We text back and forth and she tells me she wants to "hear all about" something, but when I ask her to do something this weekend (would be 4th date) she says she wants to just relax this weekend. 

I think I'm going to stop texting her. She makes me feel amazing when I'm with her, and like crap afterwards. I don't need that right now ... She's just so good looking that I am weak when she wants to do something. I guess being the fat kid growing up really does damage self esteem for life. As a marathoner now, I know I look good, I just don't see myself with a woman like that. Pretty sure I turned her off by not making a move to kiss her on that last date. 

Entertaining item of the day: I was out shopping today and saw this beautiful girl ...and asked if she wanted to go out for a drink. Lol. She said no, but in 30+ years I've never done that so I figured wth. I didn't have anything to lose and ... Live a little, right? 

I really don't like dating though, you know. I'd kill to have a sweet girl to sit here on the couch with me and watch a movie. 

Hope everyone is doing well.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

LIS-You're back in the game, step by step. I never in my wildest dreams thought I would end up falling for someone with a child. Well...fifteen years later LOL And I did practically raise him, we grew very close before he bowed to drugs. So yeah I can so relate to what you are saying but, things work out in ways we never expect.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> The hang up with her is she has a kid ... I'm not against that per se (obviously or I wouldn't have gone out with her in the first place ... And I don't have kids angel, we tried for a long time and I'm petty sure the miscarriage led to our divorce). I just don't really know how I feel about raising someone else's kid and I am a little paranoid that women with kids are looking for someone with money to be a dad, not necessarily looking for me, for me, you know?


Just my opinion and I'm in no position to tell you what you should do but reading marriage forums and seeing it in real life, I can say 100% of single moms ARE looking for a daddy to foot the bill and nothing else. 

You're young so take your time to find the perfect one with no divorce or child baggage with her.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

sounds like i got off lucky lol....... wasn't aware of that


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

I can see that...expecially if the exH was the bread winner...so now they are broke and have the kids. I have seen it a couple times already on the dating websites.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

keko said:


> You're young so take your time to find the perfect one with no divorce or child baggage with her.


Thanks. I don't feel young to not have kids yet. I definitely would take one who has been divorced ... I'd be quite the hypocrite if I didn't 

No clue how I feel about the kids thing still, but the girl is so sweet and isn't playing games. Right now I find that attractive. I just don't know that there is anything long term there and I'm struggling to break it off when I like her company. I don't want to hurt this girl. Blah. 

I'm looking forward to going out of town to see friends tomorrow. I've also taken a break from dating for a few days. I'm pretty worn out mentally and physically (no sex, if that's what you are thinking).


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Had a great day yesterday in my old city seeing friends. There were a lot of questions about the stbxw from others,but everyone seemed surprised how well I was doing. I don't know that I feel like m doing well ... I might not feel well until I have someone serious in my life again ... But dating as much as I am now must give people the illusion of doing well. That and I am a generally happy person. 

I was surprised how much people had soured on my X and how different she is now ... And how much I just didnt care. I just don't have time to waste on her anymore. 

So, here is the entertaining item of the weekend. I have a date with a 24 year old this week. Lol. I was going to say no, but my friend shamed me into it with a "what do you have to lose, it will be fun!" Argument. 

She's very attractive so at the very least it should be good for the ol' damaged ego.

Of course I wish it was with the girl who is/was playing games. She shot me down for today on Wed and I'm uncertain if I'll hear from her again. It just so weird as the dates all went so well and lasted ways too late. I guess she is just "good" at dating and giving all the right signals. It's probably for the best ... I'm sure I wasn't meant to be with the first girl I dated since my stbxw ... That just screams rebound. 

Hanging out with the boys today and then being domestic around the house tonight.

I hope ya'll are doing well.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Glad you're doing well Lost 

Just read your dating stories and I can say you're very hesitant ! Woman like just the opposite - decisive man ! 

On the 3rd date you should have her in your bed already


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Good to see you back Big. You disappeared for a while (which can be good too I guess!). I hope all is well. 

I don't know about that. I'm pretty confident in person... I come here to vent my frustration and insecurities. That said, the physical aspect of dating is where I'm most lost. I haven't had to read a new woman's signals in more than a decade. 

From what I've seen, trying to get women into bed too quick is not the route I want to take. Most of the women who would do that are not the type for me, and the ones who wouldn't would be put off.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Oh yes , I know what you mean. I was the same but you'll get it fast.

Maybe you need to have 5 a 6 dates and you'll be back in form


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Dad always told me, son...if she will drop her panties on the first date for you, she will anyone. You're not special.....no matter what she spews. Wise man....wish he was around longer for me to thank him as I got older.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Heya guys. I hope everyone is doing well. 

Ups and downs continue for me. I've got dates the next two nights but for some reason I'm still pretty down right now. I didn't like dating much as a teenager and I still don't. Give me one good woman, and I'm a happy man. Trying to find her is the pits. 

Work is slow right now too, which sucks as I'm no good at not being busy. Heck, it means I spend a decent part of the day checking my cell phone. Never have heard back from the one girl I really liked that I referred to earlier. I was pretty sure she was playing games from the start, but I did really enjoy her company. 


Everyone think I'm doing so good because I'm "out there", having fun and such... But I'm out there to find someone to make me feel good again. Lame
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

I hear you LIS. I have a couple of women that want to date, and I dont know how into i am. I want to go slow etc, just have dinner etc, but worry they will want more and I dont feel like going there yet. I also feel wierd dating when the D is not final. Seems like I am still married...though most seem to be fine dating during separation. We have been separated, but, she still lives with me (prob not for long).

big mac!! welcome back!!! how are you? we need an update on you!


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Everyone think I'm doing so good because I'm "out there", having fun and such... But I'm out there to find someone to make me feel good again. Lame


Reminds me of this song...

Sea Change "Guess I'm Doin' Fine" on Vimeo



Pb.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Everyone think I'm doing so good because I'm "out there", having fun and such... But I'm out there to find someone to make me feel good again. Lame
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You shouldn't be looking for someone to make you feel good again. You need to feel good regardless if you have a romantic partner or not. Once you feel good and comfortable all the time, being single, being by yourself...that's when the magic starts to happen. 

It takes time. Don't rush it. You will still have more days that you feel down than up, but thats just part of the process.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

LIS-It usually comes when you least expect it. When I met my psycho soon to be leaving W, I was dating about four others. I didn't see her as 'the one' at first. But after a handful of dates, I found myself either canceling dates with the others or just not calling them anymore. When it was just her, I kinda knew...well this is your choice. Seemed like anytime I was looking for a LTR...never found it. It just finds you.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Ya'll are right of course, but I just feel like some people just aren't ever going to be good alone, you know? I mean, I know people that are no good as part of a group and some that never want to be anything than single ... I think this is the same. Some of us were just meant to be part of a couple. 

That said, I'm sure I've got stuff on that front to work on. Maybe when my new insurance kicks in Feb 1 I'll see about getting a few sessions of therapy to look into it. It might also help with the lows I feel associated with dating. 

I had a good date tonight. The woman was my age (young 30s), very attractive and interesting. Not sure I really felt a connection though. Definitely nothing like i did with the one I wrote about earlier who has since moved on. I did like her enough to go out again though. No clue if she wants to or is just being nice via text "had a good time", etc. I really can't read women unless they are VeRy forward (the one I had a good connection with was very hands on). I guess I'll ask her this weekend if she wants to do something next week. 

I've got another date tomorrow with a woman much younger. Should be interesting at least. Hopefully I get the hang of this soon.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

Oh, and on the D front - apparently my next hearing isn't until March. It figures ... Now that I'm ready to put this behind me the fricking system is taking forever. Oh ... And the stbxw is claiming I should owe her alimony, lol. She's made more than me for the last 5 years ... It just since I moved and took this big job hat I now make just $2k less than her. Her claiming $5.5k in expenses a month is ridiculous.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

What's stopping YOU from asking for alimony?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

lostinspaces said:


> Oh, and on the D front - apparently my next hearing isn't until March. It figures ... Now that I'm ready to put this behind me the fricking system is taking forever. Oh ... And the stbxw is claiming I should owe her alimony, lol. She's made more than me for the last 5 years ... It just since I moved and took this big job hat I now make just $2k less than her. *Her claiming $5.5k in expenses a month is ridiculous.*


That is extremely ridiculous. Has she ever heard of cutting expenses? Good grief, DS and I live on less than 40% of that. And since when does the person making less owe alimony to the person making more?!


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

keko said:


> What's stopping YOU from asking for alimony?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, what is stopping you?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

:iagree:

That is how you counter her request for support. 

She is just getting crazy.

He'll, hit her up on moving expenses.....


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Alimony was loosely termed for SAHMs with several children. No kids, she works. What basis can this be meritable on? None.

Just another way she is trying to 'jerk your johnsons'. You could always say "Mrs. LIS.....I am contemplating counter grounds on emotional abuse and adultery." Let her sulk at the lipstick counter on that for awhile. But it's just to get your nads in a wad.......best thing is to ignore it.........hopefully she will be like a bad fart and go away.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

So, in talking with my attorney yesterday, I have no grounds due to us not making basically equitable incomes. She shouldn't either, but apparently the divorce is being filed in the state which most heavily favors women in a divorce.

As for abuse and adultery... Since it is no fault, that literally doesn't matter. Pisses me off a bunch, but her affair doesn't factor into the D at all unless I filed based on it. And even then all it would do is speed the process up (oops, should have at least done it based on that).

Another date last night, and while the girl was very nice, I just didn't feel anything there. Eight years younger (at my age at least) is just going to be too much. Was a fun way to spend an evening though.

Going out with the boys tonight and I'm much more excited about that than I have been for any of these dates recently. I think I'd much rather meet a woman the old fashioned way and KNOW I like her before the date. That's just so much harder to do.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Why are you putting so much pressure on yourself to date right now? 

Take some time with and for yourself, lost.


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

A. Age only works one direction ... And I still want to have kids one day. If it reasonably will take me at least 3 years to get back to that point, I don't want to waste time getting started when... 

B. I'm happier when I'm with someone. Admittedly, I was basically a teenager last time I was single, but even then my focus was on finding my "other half". That's not to say I'm miserable now, just that I am unfocused without someone else and I don't like that. 

There is a definite lack of purpose for me in life as a single. volunteering and work don't do anything to give me focus. As I said before, I think some people are just not meant to be alone. 

I definitely envy those people who are happy being single though.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Are you in IC to address the "can't be alone" issue? Just sounds like you don't have a good sense of self. And that can be worked on 

The more confident you are in who you are BY YOURSELF the better partners you will attract.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

I picked up a good book recently. Judging by the cover it looks a bit hokey but is really an excellent read and concept. 

Being Happy, by Andrew Matthews

Another is Creative Visualization, by Shakti Gawain


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## lostinspaces (Oct 22, 2012)

I'll get back to some IC in Feb when the new insurance kicks in. It's definitely something ill talk about ... But at the end of the day I don't see much problem with wanting to share my life with someone rather than be alone. 

At the very least the dates keep my appointment book filled up. Looking forward to the one tomorrow night. Seems promising. 

Oh, and on the topic of perfect songs for the situation: Matchbox 20 "Last Beautiful Girl"


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Glad you are looking into IC 

It is good to get out and meet new people, just don't put so much pressure on yourself to "date" I guess. The less pressure, the more relaxed you will be in social situations. And girls will notice, lol


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

How are things going Lost?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

LIS.............how have things been for you???? We are here for ya bud


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## gbonham77 (Feb 21, 2013)

wondering what happened with him


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