# Pornography



## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

There are a lot of different opinions on pornography and I wanted to see the differences between men and women from this forum. I personally think that porn can be very damaging to a marriage. What are your thoughts?


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## I'mAllIn (Oct 20, 2011)

I think there should be some verbage as to "in moderation", but maybe that's just assumed. I obviously don't think it's appropriate for my husband to sit naked in a bean bag chair 20 hours a day eating Cheetos and watching porn. However, if we watch an adult film together every once in a while, or even if he watches alone some night when I'm not home, I don't see it as a problem. If at some point he started neglecting me in favor of porn I'd find that to be a problem.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

I'mAllIn said:


> I think there should be some verbage as to "in moderation", but maybe that's just assumed. I obviously don't think it's appropriate for my husband to sit naked in a bean bag chair 20 hours a day eating Cheetos and watching porn. However, if we watch an adult film together every once in a while, or even if he watches alone some night when I'm not home, I don't see it as a problem. If at some point he started neglecting me in favor of porn I'd find that to be a problem.


:iagree:


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Porn is fine. Neglecting your partner in favor of it is not. Done.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I'mAllIn said:


> I think there should be some verbage as to "in moderation", but maybe that's just assumed. I obviously don't think it's appropriate for my husband to sit naked in a bean bag chair 20 hours a day eating Cheetos and watching porn. However, if we watch an adult film together every once in a while, or even if he watches alone some night when I'm not home, I don't see it as a problem. If at some point he started neglecting me in favor of porn I'd find that to be a problem.


:iagree:


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Riverside MFT said:


> I personally think that porn can be very damaging.


i agree


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

I was OK with porn but after seeing what happened when my husbands porn use skyrocketed and our relationship took a back seat to it its not longer acceptable, not even once a month.


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## Erom (Jan 24, 2012)

guys are more visual, seeing is better than thinking, reading or talking about sex. If wives/girl friends would make videos of themselves during sex, and maybe keep them locked up or password protected on computer for their husbands viewing pleasure, or watching them together either prier or during sex, the need for additional porn, might not be necessary.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Erom said:


> guys are more visual, seeing is better than thinking, reading or talking about sex. If wives/girl friends would make videos of themselves during sex, and maybe keep them locked up or password protected on computer for their husbands viewing pleasure, or watching them together either prier or during sex, the need for additional porn, might not be necessary.


ive known of guys who had this and still insisted on porn too.


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

Erom said:


> guys are more visual, seeing is better than thinking, reading or talking about sex. If wives/girl friends would make videos of themselves during sex, and maybe keep them locked up or password protected on computer for their husbands viewing pleasure, or watching them together either prier or during sex, the need for additional porn, might not be necessary.


Oh I made videos and took pics that did nothing to stop my husband from viewing porn all the time instead of being with me.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

square1 said:


> Oh I made videos and took pics that did nothing to stop my husband from viewing porn all the time instead of being with me.


they seem to NEVER be satisfied.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

Only when my wife is watching too!


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

I think that involvement with pornography can take away from the emotional bond that couples can have when they are making love.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I do think it's inappropriate. Mainly because I do not have that perfect body. I'm smaller chested and it took me a long time to fully accept it. Luckily, my husband is not into it. He told the truth, I've looked through his history and never seen anything. He never deletes anything either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

Riverside MFT said:


> I think that involvement with pornography can take away from the emotional bond that couples can have when they are making love.


:iagree:

During my husbands porn use the sex was emotionless. Most times I'd wish he would just hurry up and be done it made me feel like a last cheap resort when he wanted his break from porn but he had to use porn to get hard to have sex. It just wasn't worth the emotional turmoil to keep having sex like that.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

i think one cop out that men give is that men are 'visual creatures'.
i feel that this is one reason it is so bad for men.
it is visual in front of them, it is never ending and they can get whatever they desire and that is why so many can never seem to get enough, even with a willing w/gf that will give sex, pics and vids of their own.
an over dose of stimulation and it becomes a major problem, even though most of them cant see that just as a drug addict not seeing his using as a problem.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

square1 said:


> During my husbands porn use the sex was emotionless. Most times I'd wish he would just hurry up and be done it made me feel like a last cheap resort when he wanted his break from porn but he had to use porn to get hard to have sex. It just wasn't worth the emotional turmoil to keep having sex like that.


I think that is one of the probems with porn. Porn's emphasis is 100% sexual. The Porn industry also spends lots of money to make sure their product is fulfilling the fantasies of those looking at it. Men then begin living only in their sexual fantasies and miss the wonderful emotional connection that can come from REAL sex with their wives.


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## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

anything can be damaging if used incorrectly. Like guns there is nothing wrong with it inherently. Its the people who misuse them that's the problem.


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## Auzzie (Jan 23, 2012)

My hubby and I watch some porn together...but not much. watch it at home alone..say like 'you porn' but more and more I hate the subjucation of woman...being choked...anal. Anal seems to just punish the woman...and it shows men being dominant and calling woman '*****s' and '*****es'. I hate that part of the industry. It makes me sad that its so prevellant and considered 'normal'. I feel the porn industry does give some young males and females in our society unrealistic views of what sex/making love could be like. Im all for porn, but more positive (?)porn if there is such a things :/


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

Porn in moderation is ok, but because very many of the scenes are poor on storylines and the dialogue is often disjointed I find it gets boring to look at after a while. I get far more of a thrill from reading erotica as it gives the mind a greater fantasy workout. But just like porn it becomes stale reading it in excess. 

I think some of the best porn is soft porn that leaves certain items to the imagination. The type that creeps up in a well acted film that you are watching for the first time. This can really stir my love senses.


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

"Porn" is such a broad word.

What is "porn" for one person is normal for another.

Porn can be anything for 1800s erotica to extreme S&M stuff.

There are very few people today that would consider a vaudeville feather dance to be scandalous, but in it's time it was. What is seen on prime time network television today, would have been banned not very many years ago.

"Porn" is like "drugs". Some people don't want any, some people don't mind some weed every now and then, some people believe in total freedom to choose, and some people can't handle the choices they make.


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## Jen's Husband (Nov 26, 2011)

My wife is the porn enthusiast. It's a problem sometimes because she can be very enthusiastic about particular actors and also can compare me negatively. Also we used to rent together a while back and she took that (something she suggested) and made it all about her, like I was barely there. It can be a challenge. Strangely at times she'll tell me what she wants to see, then when we watch that (for example girl girl scene) she'll become upset. I don't get it but I wouldn't mind if both her porn and her toys got left behind. I don't know that these things are inherently bad, but they can definitely be misused.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Erom said:


> guys are more visual, seeing is better than thinking, reading or talking about sex. * If wives/girl friends would make videos of themselves during sex,* and maybe keep them locked up or password protected on computer for their husbands viewing pleasure, or watching them together either prier or during sex, the need for additional porn, might not be necessary.


Been there done that.. I have also taken pictures My husband told it me it was INAPPROPRIATE..But yet i know he watches the **** Any answers to that one?


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

ladybird said:


> been there done that.. I have also taken pictures my husband told it me it was inappropriate..but yet i know he watches the **** any answers to that one?


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## marriageinprogress (Jul 7, 2011)

I think that porn is very arousing and very addicting. I just don’t feel the need to view it when I have a husband that is willing to have sex with me. As a woman I like to feel an emotional connection with my lover and with porn it’s all fake, and there is know connection. As for my husband, thankfully he doesn’t feel the need to watch it either; we can fulfill each others needs.


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## nicky1 (Jan 20, 2012)

porn is so bad on every level. it is no good for a marriage and gives single men a false reality of sex, so their future partners suffer also


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## Erom (Jan 24, 2012)

square1 said:


> Oh I made videos and took pics that did nothing to stop my husband from viewing porn all the time instead of being with me.


sadly, their loss


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

Erom said:


> sadly, their loss


Once he gave up the porn he actually appreciated the pics and videos. Granted I did get mad and delete most of them but we made new ones


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

This poll doesn't make a distinction between someone who watches it occasionally and someone who is addicted to porn. The poll needs more options.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

I think online porn is the major problem, not just porn. Back when men were merely looking at pictures of naked women in magazines (that they had to go out and buy at a store) or had to rent a porn movie, I think there was a lot less problems with porn addiction. 

Online porn is too readily available and provides the viewer with such a wide span of themes. Anything a man desires is at his fingertips. It's too much for many people to be able to handle. Too stimulating.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Riverside MFT said:


> I think that involvement with pornography can take away from the emotional bond that couples can have when they are making love.


Thats 2 'cans' in on sentence. I dont buy into the poll options.

I think porn can have a place - it can provide eye candy and facilitate fantasy either together or alone. It can however, same as anything... coffee, cheeseburgers, gambling, alcohol.. have positive and negative aspects with respect to exactly what is consumed, how much, and why. Tell me about someones true habits, motives, relationships, and what they are consuming and then maybe we can discuss if porn is appropriate or not.

There. 4 more 'cans' right back at you. 

(gee, I didnt even know I had serious cans.  )


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Coffee Amore said:


> This poll doesn't make a distinction between someone who watches it occasionally and someone who is addicted to porn. The poll needs more options.


it doesnt matter


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

I guess I feel blessed that my H and I do not indulge in any kind of pornography (videos, dvds, magazines) or erotica (explicit literature), especially after reading on here about so many problems that can result from it.

So, for the most part, we've had to turn toward each other to try and fulfill each other, and I think that's made us closer together - there are enough outside distractions in our lives, without having to contend with this. For that, I'm thankful.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> it doesnt matter


Actually it does. You're free to disagree of course but it's not such a black and white issue as the posts show. The poll isn't well designed but then again it's an online poll and not meant to be scientific.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> I guess I feel blessed that my H and I do not indulge in any kind of pornography (videos, dvds, magazines) or erotica (explicit literature), especially after reading on here about so many problems that can result from it.
> 
> So, for the most part, we've had to turn toward each other to try and fulfill each other, and I think that's made us closer together - there are enough outside distractions in our lives, without having to contend with this. For that, I'm thankful.


Yes, you are very blessed. You know I haven't been so lucky. Porn has definitely caused problems in my marriage.
Now I hate just hearing the word.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

bubbly girl said:


> Yes, you are very blessed. You know I haven't been so lucky. Porn has definitely caused problems in my marriage.
> Now I hate just hearing the word.


but porn is sooooo AWESOME!!!


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

bubbly girl said:


> I think online porn is the major problem, not just porn. *Back when men *were merely looking at pictures of naked women in magazines (that they had to go out and buy at a store) or had to rent a porn movie, I think there was a lot less problems with porn addiction.
> 
> Online porn is too readily available and provides the viewer with such a wide span of themes. *Anything a man desires* is at his fingertips. It's too much for many people to be able to handle. Too stimulating.


It's not just men that look at porn.

* 17% of all women struggle with porn addiction
* 1 of 3 visitors to all adult websites are women
* 9.4 million women access adult websites every month 

_Internet Filter Review_


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Mistys dad said:


> It's not just men that look at porn.
> 
> * 17% of all women struggle with porn addiction
> * 1 of 3 visitors to all adult websites are women
> ...


i would take a stab in the dark and guess that at least a fair amount of them are women trying to figure out what they need to do to get their porn addicted husbands/bf to engage with them instead of the porn.
not realizing that there is NOTHING they can do.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Porn is appropriate or inappropriate for what?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wantsmore (Sep 13, 2011)

I love when I hear people thinking porn is the reason their marriage is falling apart. I have been viewing porn for the better part of 20 years. Yes, I use it when the wife is not interested, why shouldn't anyone. 

Maybe if you think the problem is porn, talk about it and find out why. You may not like what you hear. Its called communication, maybe start talking to you SO instead of getting angry they watch porn.

Porn just gets me in the mood and want her even more. Kind of like going out for a few drinks with the boys and there is a group of very attractive women there. It makes me want sex, but I know I have a beautiful wife at home waiting for me. i don't see the difference.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

Wantsmore said:


> I love when I hear people thinking porn is the reason their marriage is falling apart. I have been viewing porn for the better part of 20 years. Yes, I use it when the wife is not interested, why shouldn't anyone.
> 
> Maybe if you think the problem is porn, talk about it and find out why. You may not like what you hear. Its called communication, maybe start talking to you SO instead of getting angry they watch porn.
> 
> Porn just gets me in the mood and want her even more. Kind of like going out for a few drinks with the boys and there is a group of very attractive women there. It makes me want sex, but I know I have a beautiful wife at home waiting for me. i don't see the difference.



So? I've been drinking for almost 20 years. I can take it or leave it. I can have a drink or a few when I go out or just to relax after work. I could go months without having a drink. I'm not an alcoholic, but that doesn't mean alcoholics don't exist or alcoholism hasn't been the reason for marriages falling apart. Just because some people can control their drinking doesn't mean that everyone can. Same difference with porn.

If I wasn't being replaced with porn, then his porn use would never have been an issue. Good for you that you can control your porn use. Not everyone is like you.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

bubbly girl said:


> So? I've been drinking for almost 20 years. I can take it or leave it. I can have a drink or a few when I go out or just to relax after work. I could go months without having a drink. I'm not an alcoholic, but that doesn't mean alcoholics don't exist or alcoholism hasn't been the reason for marriages falling apart. Just because some people can control their drinking doesn't mean that everyone can. Same difference with porn.
> 
> If I wasn't being replaced with porn, then his porn use would never have been an issue. Good for you that you can control your porn use. Not everyone is like you.


:iagree: Good analogy. Appropriate boundaries must be set.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

Most porn objectifies women. In pornography, women are seen as sexual objects and not human beings with their own thoughts, feelings, and opinions.

I have counseled with a number of women who have been involved in either the porn industry or as strippers. Most of them are depressed and feel like they are only valueable/respected for their bodies.


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

Riverside MFT said:


> Most porn objectifies women. In pornography, women are seen as sexual objects and not human beings with their own thoughts, feelings, and opinions.
> 
> I have counseled with a number of women who have been involved in either the porn industry or as strippers. Most of them are depressed and feel like they are only valuable/respected for their bodies.


Why does porn objectify women, but not men? In fact, it is the female actors that are paid more, in higher demand and in control of what scenes they decide to do.

Porn is very quickly becoming run by women. Playboy magazine has a female CEO. Many small production companies are run by women. The highest paid producers are by a large percentage women. ( Jenna Jameson, Nina Hartley,)

Most of the largest stars are women. Which is a direct reversal of the porn industry of the 60s and 70s.

Your analogy is sort of like saying that you have counseled alcoholics, and most have come to you from the bar scene. Not everyone in a bar is an alcoholic.

Read Nina Hartley's take on women in porn and the effects of feminism in porn. It's an eye opener. Nina Hartley has been a porn performer for decades, but is also highly educated and very successful.


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

Here, I found the article. Don't want to steer anybody towards a porn site, so I copied it here.


Thus I Refute Chyng Sun

Feminists for Porn

by NINA HARTLEY



It was with a growing sense of outrage that I read Prof.Chyng Sun’s report of her visit this past January to the Adult Entertainment Expo in Las Vegas. I couldn’t help wondering it the author had done any prior research whatsoever into the active, twenty-year debate among women over the impact of pornography on their individual lives and their status as a gender. There’s nothing new in her indignation, nothing fresh in her insights and nothing unfamiliar in her arguments. As a sex-worker and sex-worker advocate for over two decades, I’ve heard and read it all before.

The professor appears wholly unfamiliar with the work of accomplished, feminist women who reject her fundamental contentions about porn and sex-work. If she bothered to consider the writings of Nadine Strossen, Carol Queen, Pat Califia, Susie Bright, Wendy McElroy, Sallie Tisdale, Linda Williams, Annie Sprinkle, myself and others, her homework wasn’t reflected in what she showed me. Clearly, testimony that failed to corroborate her pre-conceived notions of what porn is "really" about, or what it "really" means didn’t register on her radar screen.

I am an R.N., a third-generation feminist and a First-Amendment activist as well as a porn performer with the longest continuous career in the history of the industry. I’m easy to find. In fact, I was in one place for four hours each day on the floor at AEE. She certainly found my husband, writer-director I.S. Levine, (whose videos and magazines appear under the name Ernest Greene). At her request, he granted her a two-hour, on-camera interview in good faith, hoping but not expecting to receive an open-minded hearing. Why did Professor Sun not speak to me? Could it be because she knew that my very existence argues against her core assertions? Where was the honest, fearless intellectual curiousity that is hallmark of the pioneering academic researcher?

Perhaps, like a number of anti-porn feminists these days, she chooses not to solicit the opinions of women engaged in or supportive of sex- work, rather than risk encountering a contrary-to-theory example.

Professor Sun’s criticisms of pornography , though jazzed up with some contemporary media theory, are little different form those posed by the first round of anti-sex feminists I came across at the NOW conventions I attended the mid-1980′s. The gender bias, anti-male hostility, neo-Victorian erotophobia and unacknowledged class prejudice are all too familiar. Having been told to my face, in the company of twelve other, like-minded women, that I was either a shill for or a victim of patriarchal domination, I know how powerful the angry denial of feminist porn-bashers can be.

And it is that very power that makes Professor Sun’s generalizations and oversimplifications so dangerous. Though she begins her jeremiad with the obligatory disclaimer about opposing censorship, she and others of her persuasion cannot believe for a moment that their opinions are offered in a political vacuum.

For many years, right -wing ideologues have co-opted the language of feminism in their on-going, nefarious attempts to erase all forms of sexual choice. Prof. Sun plays into the hands of these enemies of women. Does she not know that making common cause with those whose most treasured ambition is the reversal of Roe v. Wade will always be suicidal? How is Prof. Sun different from Phyllis Schlafly? From Anita Bryant? From Beverly LaHaye? From Judith Reisman? From Lou Sheldon or Jerry Falwell? They all want to eliminate my choice in the disposition my body. If I have the right to choose abortion, then I have the right to choose to have sex for the camera. Sexual freedom is the flip side of the coin of reproductive choice. Make no mistake, Professor. When they’ve got rid of me, they’re coming for you next.

Professor Sun’s reportage dwells at length on the most distasteful aspects of what she saw and heard, but makes no mention of any attempt to establish direct communication with any of the women who work in the adult video industry. No wonder she finds it so effortless to ignore our opinions and dismiss our perceptions of our own lives. It’s that much easier to characterize all female sex workers as degraded, humiliated and unhappy if you’ve never talked to any of us. That we might be involved in constructive, effective efforts to improve our own working conditions, and that our employers might take our concerns seriously, clearly doesn’t fit Professor Sun’s pre-cut template for who we are.

Likewise, none of the diversity of our vibrant, raucous and contentious creative culture seems to have attracted Professor Sun’s notice. By focusing on one or two examples she finds particularly heinous, she obscures the broader truth, which is that the marketplace of sexual entertainment contains products for almost every taste and orientation, including material made by and for heterosexual women and couples, lesbians and gay men. It’s not all Bang Bus, and by no means does all of it, or even most of it, conform to the author’s notions of porn-as-_expression-of-misogyny. For her to project her own, obviously conflicted, feelings regarding men and sex onto all of the incredibly broad medium we call pornography is intellectually indefensible.

Professor Sun defames male consumers of pornography with the same broad strokes used to stereotype the experiences of female performers. Does she really believe that the average man cannot tell the difference between a movie and real life? Does she really think that young people’s difficult times with sex are more attributable to porn than to the enforced ignorance resulting from twenty years of abstinence-only "sex education" and anti-choice propaganda? Does anyone seriously harbor the idea that individual conceptions of intimacy and sexual pleasure are shaped more by exposure to pornography than by the examples parents set for their children?

A young person?s self-image, ability to set boundaries, and attitude toward sex is formed long before his or her teen years, before he or she has encountered to the supposed "evils" of pornography. I have personally met, and looked into the eyes of, hundreds of thousands of fans over the past two decades, and precious few of them would fit Professor Sun’s construction of the "typical" consumer.

And to confabulate the images on a screen, which are created performances, with the actual experience of the performers themselves, would be laughably literal-minded, were it not so profoundly insulting. Sex performers, like the products they make, vary greatly in taste and temperment. We are much more than the characters we play. LIke it or not, many female performers enjoy what they do, including things Professor Sun finds repellent. If we are not to choose what forms of sexual _expression we find appropriate for ourselves, who is to do the choosing for us, Professor Sun and her like-minded friends of the Christian Right?

Even those performers to whom work in porn is just a way to pay the bills don’t need to be lectured by a tenured university professor regarding what work they may properly do, based on her interpretation of the gender politics of porn. Her essay pulsates with the unconscious classism that has contaminated feminist thought since I first encountered it. If I learned one thing when I started my career in 1983, myself the product of an ivory-tower upbringing in Berkeley, California, it was to rein in my received ideas about my fellow sex workers and to see them as individuals struggling with all kinds of situations. What does Professor Sun propose sex workers do instead of addressing their economic challenges with what resources they possess, go to Harvard? The real choices that present themselves in modern America to a young woman with a high school education and no class advantage are often far less appealing than sex work. Perhaps she thinks we should choose the dignity of minimum wage jobs, early pregnancies and abusive marriages over the relative autonomy we enjoy as independent tradespeople.

With what I’ve learned of Dr. Sun’s views thus far, I can only await her film "documentary" with the usual weary apprehension. Knowing already what her conclusions will be, I’m only left to wonder who subsidizes her obviously well-funded labors and to what purpose. All I know at this point is that neither I nor anyone like me will be represented in her depiction of my world, or of any world anyone I know might recognize. To me, she’s just one more exploiter, seeking to make her living from the attempt to deprive me of mine.

NINA HARTLEY is a Founding Member, Feminist Anti-Censorship Task Force Member Emeritus, Board of Directors, Free Speech Coalition Member at Large, Board of Directors, Adult Industry Medical Foundation.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Is it wrong for me to completely dismiss, out of hand, anything supposedly written by Nina Hartley on the subject of porn? He has a continued, vested interest in its prosperity.

Isnt that like Goldman Sachs defending Wall Street?

--

Im sure there are just as many former pornstars that feel differently about critique of porn being simply 'anti-choice'.

Ex-Porn Star Tells the Truth About the Porn Industry | Covenant Eyes

"The California pornography industry is a destructive, drug infested, abusive and sexually diseased industry which causes severe negative secondary effects on female and male adult industry workers as well as the general public."

Former Porn Star Shelley Lubben Launches New Rap Album

"Following detailed behind-the-scenes accounts of how she and others were treated and abused, Lubben talks about the difficult road she traveled to not only get out of the industry alive and healthy - but also how she became the leading advocate speaking out against the porn industry... "

Leaving Porn On Her Terms / Violet Blue: Former adult star Jennie Ketcham's exit from porn defies stereotypes | Full Page

"I've spent my entire adult life developing the identity of a woman I am not. A woman that exists for the sole purpose of others' enjoyment. "


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## Rejected (Dec 26, 2011)

I think it all depends on how it is used, like most other things. I imagine porn could be used to help explain your fantasies to your spouse, or to help you come up with ways to spice things up. If it helps to bring a couple together, then I think that's great. If it gets in the way of a relationship, then it is inappropriate.

This question to me is much like asking whether or not hammers are inappropriate. Hammers have been used to build homes for people who would otherwise have no home. They have also been used as murder weapons. They are not "good" or "bad" on their own.


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

You can take it for what it's worth.

It's her point of view. 

Again, the alcoholic or drug addict analogy comes in. Many "Ex" drinkers are convinced that the substance they themselves had no control over, will destroy anyone who touches it.

They lost themselves in drink, so you must not be allowed to drink. Ever. Period.

I choose what is seen in my home. Not the government, not feminists, not the media, not religion. I make my own choices and I take responsibility for myself. 

By the way, I'm not really into the porn thing. Most seems kind of silly.

Even your Wall St. analogy makes the point. Not every company on Wall St acted wrong. In fact, very few did. To paint the entire Wall St business community based on that small percentage, is flawed. 

You can find individual examples of any point of view.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Rejected said:


> This question to me is much like asking whether or not hammers are inappropriate. Hammers have been used to build homes for people who would otherwise have no home. They have also been used as murder weapons. They are not "good" or "bad" on their own.


Oh no.

"hammers don't kill people, people kill people." :: "Porn doesnt wreck relationships, people do."

(groan) 

I'm not sure it is entirely that easy, though I argued along those lines. I think I feel closer to porn being more like alcohol than a hammer.


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

anotherguy said:


> Oh no.
> 
> "hammers don't kill people, people kill people."
> 
> (groan)


Oh no

we need more government control of hammers.....it's for the children......


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

anotherguy said:


> Oh no.
> 
> "hammers don't kill people, people kill people." :: "Porn doesnt wreck relationships, people do."
> 
> ...


Yes it is that easy.

People make choices. Your computer has never forced you at hammer point to watch anything.


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## Wantsmore (Sep 13, 2011)

Honestly ask your self. Why is he using porn in place of me? There are probably things he is uncomfortable sharing with you and you with him.

Something is causing him to be this way. I view porn almost everyday and never has it replaced the sex I have with my wife. If I had to rely only on my wife for sex then I would probably be a looking for it outside of our marriage. My drive is way higher then hers. Porn allows me to not be asking for sex 6,7,8 times a week. She is fine with a couple times. Porn for me is the outlet to keep me happy.

If he is using porn to avoid you then there are other issues at play.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Mistys dad said:


> Yes it is that easy.
> 
> People make choices. Your computer has never forced you at hammer point to watch anything.


yes, but many people have held their computers at hammer point:


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## Rejected (Dec 26, 2011)

Wasn't trying to make a joke, although I'm glad to have been able to amuse you. 

Right now I'd be happy if my husband showed an interest in porn. ANY interest in sex would be an improvement. 

In a relationship, I feel that it is a person's responsibility to be mindful of their partner's feelings and needs. Porn may or may not be harmful. I'm no expert, I'm just some schmuck posting my opinion on a discussion board. But I can tell you this from experience... completely withholding sex and showing no interest in sex can hurt your partner an awful lot.


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

Wantsmore said:


> Honestly ask your self. Why is he using porn in place of me? There are probably things he is uncomfortable sharing with you and you with him.
> 
> Something is causing him to be this way. I view porn almost everyday and never has it replaced the sex I have with my wife. If I had to rely only on my wife for sex then I would probably be a looking for it outside of our marriage. My drive is way higher then hers. Porn allows me to not be asking for sex 6,7,8 times a week. She is fine with a couple times. Porn for me is the outlet to keep me happy.
> 
> If he is using porn to avoid you then there are other issues at play.


I asked myself that question as I am sure many women have. Heck I straight out asked my husband but he didnt view it as replacing me cause we were having sex once a week so he thought it was fine. It wasn't fine. He looked at porn everyday multiple times a day. No matter what I changed to try and entice him it didn't work. And i am very open sexually and we try a lot of things. The problem wasn't me. It was him.

Now that he doesn't view porn at all we have sex at least once a day. And we are both happier. We have our intimacy back that porn stripped from us.


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

Grayson said:


> Porn stripped nothing from you.
> 
> Your husband's misuse of it did.
> 
> ...



Oh no I blamed him too and he is fully aware of it. It was his choice to continue with the porn the way he was no one forced him. But if internet porn wasnt so easily accessible do I think it would have become what it did with him? No I don't.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

square1 said:


> Oh no I blamed him too and he is fully aware of it. It was his choice to continue with the porn the way he was no one forced him. But if internet porn wasnt so easily accessible do I think it would have become what it did with him? No I don't.


That's still all on him. Availability does not automatically lead to misuse. If it did, the ready availability of fatty foods and alcohol would mean that all Americans would be morbidly obese alcoholics.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

Grayson said:


> That's still all on him. Availability does not automatically lead to misuse. If it did, the ready availability of fatty foods and alcohol would mean that all Americans would be morbidly obese alcoholics.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah well many news stations report that most american are now qualified as being morbidly obese (but nothing about being alcoholics) especially children.
According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 34% of adults aged 20 and older are obese, and 34% are overweight. Among children, 18% of teens aged 12 to 19 are obese, 20% of children aged 6 to 11 are obese, as are 10% of kids aged 2 to 5.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

would never look at porn again if the wife was more into sex!



really don't care for porn but it gets old masterbating to thoughts of your wife rejecting and refusing to care about what you like sexually.



I think a lot of husbands turned to porn because of a poor sex life and after trying to lead their wives to be more sexual and sensual and not making progress they turn to porn. I do agree that its so prevelant and easy to find any kind of twisted porn that it has become a problem for many many men. alcohol and drugs are similar in that respect.

but its still about self control.as much of life is


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> * husbands *turned to porn because of a poor sex life and after trying to lead their wives to be more sexual and sensual and not making progress they turn to porn. I do agree that its so prevelant and easy to find any kind of twisted porn that it has become a *problem for many many men.* alcohol and drugs are similar in that respect.
> 
> but its still about self control.as much of life is


again.

* 17% of all women struggle with porn addiction
* 1 of 3 visitors to all adult websites are women
* 9.4 million women access adult websites every month 

Internet Filter Review 

Why is this considered a "man's" issue?


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Wantsmore said:


> *I love when I hear people thinking porn is the reason their marriage is falling apart.*
> 
> Ok for one.. It is the reason my marriage is falling apart.
> 
> ...


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

anotherguy said:


> Oh no.
> 
> "hammers don't kill people, people kill people." :: "Porn doesnt wreck relationships, people do."
> 
> ...



:iagree:

It is never that black and white, is anything really. It is a choice and for some it is a bad choice like meth or alcohol etc and for others it is nothing... It really depends on the person.

I know most people don't understand what it is like, some do, but most of you don't. To be married to someone who doesn't even know you EXIST, I am just a housekeeper, baby sitter, cook (you get it).

I am a very attractive woman (or so I have been told) I get hit on at the grocery store for **** sakes. 

I have also tried to spice things up sexually.. That totally back fired.. Toys ( he had issues with it) dirty pictures and text messages he said that it was inappropriate. But yet he watches porn, how really inappropriate is that.. A wife trying to get his damn attention and he gives me the 3rd degree for doing what I did.. So please tell me what the logic is on that, cuz i really want to know.


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## KittyKat (May 11, 2008)

This topic is so easy peasy. Get you some Hentai Anime. Pm me for the best titles.

I can't stand porn with real humans. But I LOVE anime porn! The Japanese are some really f*cked up people when it comes to sex. There's always bondage, rape, forced, etc. But it's a cartoon for heaven's sake. And a lot of them are done really well. And just like 'human' porn, the anime always has a story line. I like it so much that I sell them. 

No woman would feel inferior watching a cartoon. Your wife won't be looking at her butt or boobs or stomach and wishing she looked like that. Men, get you some hentai anime. Show it to the wife. Get horny and have at it.


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

KittyKat said:


> This topic is so easy peasy. Get you some Hentai Anime. Pm me for the best titles.
> 
> I can't stand porn with real humans. But I LOVE anime porn! The Japanese are some really f*cked up people when it comes to sex. There's always bondage, rape, forced, etc. But it's a cartoon for heaven's sake. And a lot of them are done really well. And just like 'human' porn, the anime always has a story line. I like it so much that I sell them.
> 
> No woman would feel inferior watching a cartoon. Your wife won't be looking at her butt or boobs or stomach and wishing she looked like that. Men, get you some hentai anime. Show it to the wife. Get horny and have at it.



I didn't wish I looked like the women in the porn my husband was watching. Real or cartoon porn its still porn and if a man or woman starts choosing it over sex with their partner its a problem.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Mistys dad said:


> again.
> 
> * 17% of all women struggle with porn addiction
> * 1 of 3 visitors to all adult websites are women
> ...


I'd be willing to bet my next pay check the the number of men with the same issues are much much higher.

thats why In my opinion its more of a mens issue than a womans issue.


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

Ok, the number is probably higher.

But you did not state it a "more" issue. You are stated it as an exclusive issue.

You stated the issue was with Men and Husbands. 

It's not just men.
It's not all men.
It's not even most men.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Mistys dad said:


> Ok, the number is probably higher.
> 
> But you did not state it a "more" issue. You are stated it as an exclusive issue.
> 
> ...


you infered that I did not state that.

I used terms like alot of men and many men.

and just because I did not include females dose not mean I don't think that some female also have problems with porn


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

I have already expressed that pornography by itself can be damaging to a relationship. What causes even more strain on the relationship is the porn coupled with the lies. More often then not, men (and some women) who use porn will hide the extent of their usage from their spouse. They will lie when confronted, or do everything in the power to make sure their secret is not discovered.

While I am not for pornography use, it is a choice you have to make between BOTH spouses.

I loved this thread on a man's perception of what pornography use did to his relationship: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/28547-lies-pornography.html

If you want to read some more threads about others who have struggled with pornography in their relationships, read these:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/29587-pornography.html from 8/07/2011
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/26538-pornography.html from 6/5/2011
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/38444-fed-up-him-preferring-porn.html - this conversation is currently in progress.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Riverside MFT said:


> I have already expressed that pornography by itself can be damaging to a relationship. What causes even more strain on the relationship is the porn coupled with the lies. More often then not, men (and some women) who use porn will hide the extent of their usage from their spouse. They will lie when confronted, or do everything in the power to make sure their secret is not discovered.
> 
> While I am not for pornography use, it is a choice you have to make between BOTH spouses.
> 
> ...


You determine a causality that does not exist. The problems that you cite lie in the (mis)use of (in this case) porn, and the secrecy and lies established by the (mis)using partner. Porn did not misuse itself...it did not keep secrets...it did not lie. It did not ignore its spouse in favor of itself. All of those were actions willingly committed by the porn-misusing partner. As has been said ad infinitum, there are many forms of recreation and entertainment that can be damaging to a relationship if the relationship takes a back seat to it. Porn is no different...no better, no worse. A spouse's fervor for following his/her favorite sports team can cause just as much damage to a relationship, but I don't see you taking football to task for being inherently damaging.

I do, however, agree that it's a subject that needs to be discussed and agreed upon - rationally and openly - between partners. It's the best way to not only know where you both stand on the issue, it can most certainly help prevent conflict. My wife has known that I view porn since shortly after we began dating. Sometimes, she watches with me. Sometimes she doesn't. Sometimes, since we've got other family members in the house, she will - with no prompting from me - arrange for me to have the house to myself to watch at my leisure. Is our marriage perfect? Of course not. But, we own our issues...we don't blame them on activities we've chosen for our leisure time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Grayson said:


> You determine a causality that does not exist. The problems that you cite lie in the (mis)use of (in this case) porn, and the secrecy and lies established by the (mis)using partner. Porn did not misuse itself...it did not keep secrets...it did not lie. It did not ignore its spouse in favor of itself. All of those were actions willingly committed by the porn-misusing partner. As has been said ad infinitum, there are many forms of recreation and entertainment that can be damaging to a relationship if the relationship takes a back seat to it. Porn is no different...no better, no worse. A spouse's fervor for following his/her favorite sports team can cause just as much damage to a relationship, but I don't see you taking football to task for being inherently damaging.
> 
> I do, however, agree that it's a subject that needs to be discussed and agreed upon - rationally and openly - between partners. It's the best way to not only know where you both stand on the issue, it can most certainly help prevent conflict. My wife has known that I view porn since shortly after we began dating. Sometimes, she watches with me. Sometimes she doesn't. Sometimes, since we've got other family members in the house, she will - with no prompting from me - arrange for me to have the house to myself to watch at my leisure. Is our marriage perfect? Of course not. But, we own our issues...we don't blame them on activities we've chosen for our leisure time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


this reminds me of a cheating spouse trying to justify their actions.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> this reminds me of a cheating spouse trying to justify their actions.


How so? A cheating spouse attempts to absolve themselves of personal responsibility for their choices and behavior. That sounds a lot more like saying that it's porn in and of itself that's harmful, and not the decisions made by the person (mis)using it.

In fact, I am remaining consistent with the same POV that says the cheating spouse is responsible for his/her own decisions and actions.

Have I even suggested that no relationships face problems that involve one partner's use of porn? Not at all. But, just as with the cheating spouse being responsible for their actions, so it is in porn-related problems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

Riverside MFT said:


> There are a lot of different opinions on pornography and I wanted to see the differences between men and women from this forum. I personally think that porn can be very damaging to a marriage. What are your thoughts?


I think that if your intention was to solicit unbiased responses you may have not first offered your opinion. It could sway the responses.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

tjohnson said:


> I think that if your intention was to solicit unbiased responses you may have not first offered your opinion. It could sway the responses.


Very good point. I don't think that unbiased opinions were truly hoped for. Given the phrasing of the poll options and the tainting of the proverbial jury pool that you've just mentioned, I think what was being sought were responses that could be used to shore up a pure-determined conclusion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

tjohnson said:


> I think that if your intention was to solicit unbiased responses you may have not first offered your opinion. It could sway the responses.


how is that when people have their own opinions and views and everyone can give it.
him saying his belief will not in its self sway anyone.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

It is true that pornography in and of itself is not the problem in relationships but rather people's reactions to the pornography is the problem. 

Openess and honesty is vital to a healthy relationship. When engaged in porn, people have a tendeency to lie and hide things from their spouse. 

Turning towards your spouse when dealing with problems is also important. People will turn to porn (among other things) instead of trying to solve problems within the marriage. 

Seeking sexual satisfaction from something (or someone) other than your spouse eventually causes problems. Pornography is a facilitator in people meeting their sexual needs (though not their emotional needs). 

I recognize that pornography does not cause all of these things to happen, however, porn is a medium for facilitating lying, turning away from your spouse, and seeking sexaul satisfaction elsewhere. Taking away the medium (porn in this case) will not solve the problems people already have in their relationships, but it will remove one of the obstacles for couples to heal and draw closer together.


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## RECHTSANWALT (Oct 5, 2011)

I believe there are some people who view porn because it is the best or even only alternative to safe sex when none is available. 

What would you do if the spouse is simply not interested in having as much as a conversation with you for weeks, shares no common interests, has no interest in you & cannot be bothered to extend courtesies? How awkward would an hour of sex with such a person be?

I have been viewing porn for as many as 15 years. Yes, I feel terrible - deleting all content, and restarting all over etc. 

I have weakness for well shaped b****ts, behinds - no denials. But amusingly enough, I have begun realising that what I miss most in my life is emotional intimacy. The scenes involving flirting, naughty talk, petting, spontaneity, foreplay, kissing and some sex is what I look forward to from porn these days. 

I think there is potential for a new genre of adult films that is not exactly pornographic. Mind you, it would still be branded "immoral" and be accused of "objectifying women" (somehow the fashion and cosmetics industries get away with this. No, they "empower" women).


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

RECHTSANWALT said:


> I believe there are some people who view porn because it is the best or even only alternative to safe sex when none is available.
> 
> What would you do if the spouse is simply not interested in having as much as a conversation with you for weeks, shares no common interests, has no interest in you & cannot be bothered to extend courtesies? How awkward would an hour of sex with such a person be?
> 
> ...


Are you asking what to do? If so, you could share these same feelings with your wife with the emphasis on wanting an emotional connection.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

RECHTSANWALT said:


> I have weakness for well shaped b****ts, behinds - no denials. But amusingly enough, I have begun realising that what I miss most in my life is emotional intimacy. The scenes involving flirting, naughty talk, petting, spontaneity, foreplay, kissing and some sex is what I look forward to from porn these days.


I can understand that. I, myself, have found a preference for amateur material because it seems more genuine (for want of a better term). The people in them seem as if they actually want to be together and are truly enjoying themselves.



> I think there is potential for a new genre of adult films that is not exactly pornographic. Mind you, it would still be branded "immoral" and be accused of "objectifying women" (somehow the fashion and cosmetics industries get away with this. No, they "empower" women).


They already exist. For the most part, they market themselves as being "for couples" or "for women." Some more explicit than others, but with a focus on portraying the more emotional aspects of whatever scenario they're presenting. Right now, it's more of a niche market.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

RECHTSANWALT said:


> (somehow the fashion and cosmetics industries get away with this. No, they "empower" women).


i dont like these either. i believe they also objectify women and give a false sense and unrealistic view of what beauty is to women.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Grayson said:


> It can skew the responses in several ways. For starters, it can make it more likely for those who agree to respond than those who disagree. It can also set the tone for the responses...those who agree are already in a position of feeling their opinions carry more weight, and those who disagree starting the proverbial race with a handicap, in that their views are perceived to be dismissed out of hand or seen as rationalizations (of course you'd never do that, would you?).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


of course not. i had my views BEFORE this thread. thank you very much.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Grayson said:


> I know you did. I was pointing out that you'd NEVER dismiss a differing viewpoint out of hand, such as by, oh, I dunno...someone suggesting that those who misuse porn (or anything else) take responsibility for their choices and actions is akin to a cheating spouse rationalizing their actions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


i absolutely do think people should take responsibility for their own actions.
nut i also liken the porn industry to drug dealers, same as a drug dealer doesnt force the abuser to take drugs but it doesnt make what they do right by any means.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Riverside,

I am going to just go off on a small tangent and for discussion's sake, say that you have a bonafide point from a relationship health standpoint, an individual emotional health standpoint, and a moral standpoint.

However, I am not sure about other men here, but I have to concede that pornography, from the early days of a Playboy under my bed to the modern internet age, played a certain role in becoming a decent lover (at least my gf seems to think so. . .I don't want to wax on about how good or not good I am, because it can seem self-serving and in no way can you verify it).

The truth is. . .sexualilty is learned.

If not porn, where are men to learn it from?

Dad?
The Church?
Biology class?

or lol. . .

Your partner?

Like women know what they want? Especially a 21-23 year old relative novice?

I certainly don't think sexuality begins or ends with porn, and a lot of it IS simply unrealistic and faking and performing. . . but gee whiz, it was probably through Playboy and Penthouse I learned about the clitoris, female orgasm, cunninlingus, and even some cheesy pillow talk.

Beyond just imagery, the stories or letters to Penthouse. . .I don't know, Riverside. . .had I NOT had these references. . .would I be a "In and Out" kind of guy? Maybe. . .

I kind of regard it as a necessary evil. . .like the army.

But yes. . .it's a double-edged sword. . .that which has the potential to assist a man to become a good lover. . .also has the ability to consume him and make him a terrible lover and partner. . .I am not trying to come across as a porn apologist. . .but would rather like to hear your opinion. . .

without porn. . .would many of the women out there be counting cracks in the ceiling?


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

wow, wonder what guys did before the 50's :scratchhead:


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Riverside,

To continue the discussion and make my point. . .I have 3 boys. . .how far am I supposed to take the sex talks I have with them besides appropriate birth control?

You know. . .I DO want all of my boys to be good lovers someday, although I am wise enough now at 43 y.o. to know that being good in bed isn't the end-all necessarily. . .and being consumed with getting the Big O for a woman isn't healthy either. . .yet. . .I ask even women here in a poll awhile back - would you rather be a good lay or a good cook and hands down. . .all of them want to be good lays.

Obviously, it's in poor taste I tell my boys about doing the alphabet, how it's all in the pillow talk, and that "rockin' is better than thrustin" from a technique standpoint. . .Gawd. . .do you think they want to hear this stuff from Dad?

Do you even think they SHOULD or would I be locked up?

Yet. . .there is porn, isn't there?

I mean, I'd never encourage it but I am glad there is stuff out there, you know? 

Because some woman someday is going to spread her legs for my boys and pass judgment. . .what do you say to that?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> Riverside,
> 
> I am going to just go off on a small tangent and for discussion's sake, say that you have a bonafide point from a relationship health standpoint, an individual emotional health standpoint, and a moral standpoint.
> 
> ...


Porn makes a man become a good lover? :rofl::rofl:
Sweet Jesus, I have LITERALLY heard it all. Hey, here's a tip....those women screaming in porn aren't actually enjoying it. In other news, the WWE is fake as are unicorns. 
What makes a man a good lover? Listening to his partner, asking questions, understanding her vibes and moving with it. 
Women know EXACTLY what we want sexually but yeah, it's easier to watch a lame porno. Kind of like watching the movie To Kill A Mockingbird, rather than read the book. It's cheap and it's lazy and us women know it.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> wow, wonder what guys did before the 50's


Well. . .it's like the ol' Sat. Night Live sketch with Tim Kazurinski. . .he's playing a scientist with a bow tie on and says, "The male orgasm has long been around since the dawn of time. The female orgasm. . .about 1960."


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

TheRealBrighteyes:

I can guarantee you I didn't learn about the clitoris or G-spot by watching or reading To Kill A Mockingbird.

Of course they are faking. . .they are being watched. . .yet, it's part of the repository of information out there. . .I agree a lot (most?) of porn is mechanical and may only be mildly instructive for the novice lover. . .but a man has got to start somewhere. . .because it's all on him unfortunately.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Scannerguard said:


> Well. . .it's like the ol' Sat. Night Live sketch with Tim Kazurinski. . .he's playing a scientist with a bow tie on and says, "The male orgasm has long been around since the dawn of time. The female orgasm. . .about 1960."


very uh, scientific


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> TheRealBrighteyes:
> 
> I can guarantee you I didn't learn about the clitoris or G-spot by watching or reading To Kill A Mockingbird.
> 
> Of course they are faking. . .they are being watched. . .yet, it's part of the repository of information out there. . .I agree a lot (most?) of porn is mechanical and may only be mildly instructive for the novice lover. . .but a man has got to start somewhere. . .because it's all on him unfortunately.


And you SURE didn't learn about the clitoris or G-spot from porn.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> very uh, scientific


Yup. Female orgasm didn't exist until the 1960's. Let me restate that...the female orgasm didn't matter until the 1960's when the women demanded it. 
Hey, you are arguing with a guy who thinks women should be held back education wise in favor of men. In fact, his solid economic plan is to fund men to get a college degree and succeed and force women to wait until they are 40 to start college.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

BTW, I thought the "Progressive SimplyAmorous" said it best. . .there are two kinds of lovers . . .Sensual and Erotic and of course, most are probably a mix, but most gravitate towards one or the other as a lover and preference.

Either approach to making love is going to demand some knowledge, experience, and gauging your partner to what they like. . .yes, tuning in.

WIthout "erotica". . .where can the "erotic" come from?

Are you suggesting that men need to read The Feminist Diaries and that will make them good lovers?

Here, Realbrighteyes. . .let me do some laughing of my own. . .

You know, I am going to let you in on a secret I know about a lot of women, Realbrighteyes (for some reason, you seem to have it out for me). . .sometimes, Realbrighteyes, sometimes, (not all the time - sometimes) women just want to be f'd. Oh, most don't freely admit it at Church breakfasts, but occasionally, they'll open up.

As one girl at work said to me, unsolicited BTW. . ."I wish my husband would put my legs up behind my ears and just f' me."

Does your man know how to do that? Cause I sense a tension in the provocative tone towards me. . .almost a cognitive dissonance to the way you approach my ideas (look it up).

Sorry. . .not all sexuality is rose pedals on the bed and talking for hours after watching a chick flick and a night of couples counseling (although other than the last thing, I can get into those aspects of a relationship).

Sometimes, a basic vanilla porn may be more instructive on sexuality, I suppose, than a neutered feminist or a coffee-drinking, brown sports coat wearing, liberal therapist's idea. (  to Riverside - all in fun).

Hey, don't get me wrong. . .when I was younger and more impressionable, I used to listen to females like yourself. . .then I got older and wiser.

Yeah, talking. . .as if that's what a tongue is supposed to be used for. . .


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Scannerguard said:


> Yeah, talking. . .as if that's what a tongue is supposed to be used for. . .


FINALLY!
you said something that makes sense


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## IAMCIV (Nov 8, 2011)

ladybird said:


> :iagree:
> 
> It is never that black and white, is anything really. It is a choice and for some it is a bad choice like meth or alcohol etc and for others it is nothing... It really depends on the person.
> 
> ...


I can't completely speak for anyone who isn't me of course, but I knew a guy who stated that he couldn't imagine his wife doing the things porn stars do. That it wasn't decent. Whatever that ment. I guess some people have a certain image of what they expect form their wife and anything too far into the adult entertainment side makes them uncomfortable. It's like they think wife does this and that, adult entertainers do that and this and they don't want their worlds to collide. 

Usually a woman wants to be a mans everything so he doesn't need that other world but that may not be what their husband wants. 

I personally throughly enjoy the vids and pics my wife made for me. 

I remember an episode of married w/ children where Al was totally infatuated with a stripper, and then to his horror found out later that it was his wife the whole time.

The vastness of the mind. It's rarely black or white I suppose.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> BTW, I thought the "Progressive SimplyAmorous" said it best. . .there are two kinds of lovers . . .Sensual and Erotic and of course, most are probably a mix, but most gravitate towards one or the other as a lover and preference.
> 
> Either approach to making love is going to demand some knowledge, experience, and gauging your partner to what they like. . .yes, tuning in.
> 
> ...


I don't have it out for you. I dislike people who inflame and say things just for shock value, as you have always done. This is a forum of people seeking help, not Howard Stern.

Your use of the word "females" is just that, designed to incite and you knew exactly what you were doing. Your dig at Riverside, who did nothing to you, was a cheap passive aggressive shot. It is lame, tiresome and transparent as glass. 

Stick with porn and highly inappropriate conversations with married co-workers.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Stick with porn and highly inappropriate conversations with married co-workers.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Riverside MFT said:


> I think that involvement with pornography can take away from the emotional bond that couples can have when they are making love.


 I feel this greatly depends on the individual couple..... their emotional vulnerability with each other, shared enjoyment of the Erotic, even some enthusiam for learning (we enjoyed Amazon.com: Better Sex Video Series: Sexplorations - Volumes 1, 2, 3 DVDs + FREE Music CD "Journeys" DVD/music CD Set: Dr. Linda Banner, Ph.D., Dr. Eli Coleman, Robin Millhausen, Dr. Eusebio Rubio-Aurioles, MD, Dr. Mark Schoen: Movies & TV).......

...... for many, it is a little extra spicing - a going beyond the steamy R rated bedroom scene & getting a little more skin. Some simply ENJOY it, and when we can do it "together" without insecurities flaring ... The question is... why not? Because someone else feels it is dirty/sinful/harmful? 

I had enough of that "thinking" to SINK my own sexuality in our younger yrs... been there, done that... won't go back. 

From our experience........ My husband has been looking at Playboy since he was 12 ....he read the articles back then also ---everything he learned about sex was through this medium. He was never the type of man to "use" a woman , he treated me like a treasured lady in every respect -even waited for me. The "*emotional*" was paramount to him ....always, I could not ask for more in the emotional. 

....When he came across "Hustler" -he felt it was Pure Trash, degrading to women & preverse, felt Larry Flynt deserved to be shot - too bad he didn't die. Playboy was "class" in his eyes, even if he did feel guilty for looking, the visual allure never left him...he also enjoys a seductive stripper -oh yes ! and these visual temptations followed into our marriage. Amazingly, he never masterbated to these images... he felt that was cheating (his words, not mine)... he always saved himself for me. (Believe me, I know this is near unheard of).

....I didn't know all of this back then cause we never talked about sex! How silly that was, embarrased of our own desires /fantasies! Now if that isn't a damn hang up, I am not sure what is !

.... I was hardy FREE in my own sexuality, I was infact "Caged"...anything outside of intercourse I viewed as pornish, stripperish, immoral somehow ..... these puritan views I held hindered our marraige bed worse than any enjoyment of a little soft porn. 

One thing we always had, has never left us, even in the dark, under the covers was this amazing "Emotional bond"- we had this to the heights, but with the opening up of the sexual/use of more of the visual erotic, no longer feeling "guilty'/ ashamed of the human desire to ENJOY looking at SEX, getting kinky, doing some of those things I previous felt were "dirty", seeing the human body with beauty ........and allowing myself to get aroused.......this has only enhanced our marraige, our fantasies with each other, and the trying of new & exciting things.

Man may have created Porn, but our Creator , for whatever reason gave the Drive to want to view these things....can this really be argued? 

Because of my own personal experience, when I had an obvious hormonal increase .......I was literally DRIVEN to look upon the erotic/ some Porn, we even rented it for a time (went after the educational, SOFT only).......if my husband was against this - putting some guilt trip on me, this would have only pushed me away, causing fights.....had I been married to a Preacher - He might have tried casting a "Lust demon" out of me. None of this viewing separated us...it got us opening up about sex, trying new things, pure enjoyment really. 

Porn will always be with us so long as men are born with 10 times more testosterone raging through their veins, they will seek it out, in youth, in near sexless marraiges. When they use it ABOVE their willing wanting wives, when this viewing warps expectations , expecting their wives to be/act like a porn star, these are all REAL issues though. 

So HOW it affects our relationships--how we "use" other people, if it doesn't bring us CLOSER to our spouses, then we should discipline ourselves to remove it from our lives, I won't argue with that. 

Obviously I am against Hard core Porn, I don't feel it is ok to degrade women, for men to use women, but still, I appreciate the Freedom for the Erotic to be made viewable to those who enjoy it, I would not want that taken away, it needs safeguarded - with our children. The lives of the women who engage in this industry, that is a whole can of worms, I have not the answers. 

This is a great book....written by a husband & wife giving thier detailed & heartfelt struggle with the Porn issue.... she hated it-near ready to leave the marriage over it , he enjoyed it couldn't understand her... they determined to HEAR each other fully , try to understand the other , to listen, to care...... I believe he gives it up in the end but not because he was coersed into it. It was their personal struggle -- of putting each other 1st. As for me & my husband, neither of us has an issue with the others enjoyment, so we have a different outcome. To each their own. Amazon.com: Love and Pornography: Dealing with Porn and Saving your Relationship (9780981874388): Victoria Prater, Garry Prater: Books


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Thanks SA. .. to be clear, I wasn't trying to be a porn apologist. . .but to subscribe the motive of a male viewing porn as to only indulge himself in masturbation, well. . .I think it's more complex than that.

I am going to venture 98% of porn is not instructive. . .just trash and an indulgence. . .still. . .what does biology class and that book your parents gave you about sex at age 7 teach you?

Insert Tab A into Slot B and that's sex?

I wasn't trying to take a cheap shot per se at Riverside (my apologies Riverside) but rather just be a little challenging to his views as a coach may be (I always preferred coach hard-butt vs. coach nice guy).

Here is a documentary on the Female Orgasm:

The Female Orgasm Explained | Watch Free Documentary Online

(it's not pornographic)

It does appear the Female Orgasm was discovered about 1960, although I am sure it has been happening for many 1000's of years before. . .

While I more prefer to watch Carl Sagan's Cosmos on the side bar on a reflective Sat. night. . .this wasn't a bad watch.

The forum will note the woman who disposes of men who can't get her off. 

The pressure is on, guys.

A lot of women don't want men who are not a student of the female body and sexuality.

And honestly, why shouldn't they?


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Scannerguard said:


> The truth is. . .sexualilty is learned.
> 
> If not porn, where are men to learn it from?
> 
> ...


Yep... gasp ... from your partner. 

If people went in to marriage understanding that it is a BEGINNING and not an END, it might help.

If people went in to marriage understanding that is a learning process, that it involves constant change, that it is dynamic and not static, it might help.

It is the beginning of learning about how to get along with another, it is the beginning of learning about how your partner works - what pleases them and what doesn't, it is the beginning of learning about what works for you and what doesn't.

And, if you are blessed enough, you will learn a whole lot about YOURSELF in the process of learning about another and it can carry you throughout your entire marriage and life.

People have been able to figure it out since the beginning of time without having to have porn to guide them. Maybe we all just need to get back to the basics.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> Yep... gasp ... from your partner


Optimally, yes. . .however, unfortunately, women are often blessed with the condition of "I don't know what I want - itis" and the pressure is still on.

Now. . .in women's defense, it's okay to not exactly know what you want or even know what's on the menu, but a man has got to be able to offer more on the menu that just a quickie/wham-bam.

That the reality of sex in 2012.

Now. . .I find it interesting that TheRealBrighteyes accuses me of "shock jocking" here when I rarely partake in the anal sex, threesome, sex toy, etc. threads and even attempt to offer a religious, tantric and spiritual dimensions to sex here.

Now, I don't expect any of the men and most of the women to be as accomplished as me  but I expect you all to listen when I have something to say of value.

I think what's bugging the "anti-pornites" here is this:

"A thoughtful lecture from PhD, who is an expert on relationships, on how a man should hold a woman, clean the house, love her, listen to her, etc."

is just as valuable and instructive on female sexuality as:

A sterile DVD on the anatomy of sex stating, "After the clitoris is sufficiently engorged and your partner is stimulated, you may now to proceed to copulation, if your penis is sufficiently erect."

is just as valuable and instructive on female sexuality as:

"PIZZA BOY: Hey, Baby, I heard you ordered a pizza with pepperoni. Well. . .here's the pizza, baby. . .and here's the pepperoni."

They all impart different messages. . .the porn, in a non-sterile way, is teaching men (and women) that sex is supposed to be fun and playful, if even a bit cheesey at times.

You'd all do well to remember that and stop trying to fit into the Puritan mold of sexuality.


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## mommy22 (Apr 6, 2008)

Enchantment said:


> Yep... gasp ... from your partner.
> 
> If people went in to marriage understanding that it is a BEGINNING and not an END, it might help.
> 
> ...


I love this!!! And to add my two cents... It's so much more gratifying when you move away from the motive of self-pleasure to pleasing your spouse. It makes the experience so much more unified and pleasurable as a couple. As crazy as it sounds, the more I try to make sex pleasing to him, the more excited and completely inundated with the experience I become!


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## mommy22 (Apr 6, 2008)

BTW, it's quite upsetting that the largest number of males is in favor of porn while the largest number of females finds it inappropriate. Is there a disconnect?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

mommy22 said:


> BTW, it's quite upsetting that the largest number of males is in favor of porn while the largest number of females finds it inappropriate. Is there a disconnect?


Of course there is....*the role of testosterone*. If men had our estrogen, and the fluctuations of our hormones & pms, they would act like us-more emotional and more receptive- and think like us. (the lower test men ARE more like us - I know as I am married to one of them- his interest in porn is very tame, it makes all the sense in the world)

Most women will NEVER understand the mind of the average male - their lower test levels can not allow it. 

*An average woman has 40 to 60 nanograms of testosterone in a deciliter of blood plasma. An average man has 300 to 1,000 nanograms per deciliter*.

Read just a part of this very long & informative article about the role of Testosterone ...


> Does this apply to humans? The evidence certainly suggests that it does, though much of the "proof" is inferred from accidents. Pregnant women who were injected with progesterone (chemically similar to testosterone) in the 1950's to avoid miscarriage had daughters who later reported markedly tomboyish childhoods. Ditto girls born with a disorder that causes their adrenal glands to produce a hormone like testosterone rather than the more common cortisol. The moving story, chronicled in John Colapinto's book "As Nature Made Him," of David Reimer, who as an infant was surgically altered after a botched circumcision to become a girl, suggests how long-lasting the effect of fetal testosterone can be. Despite a ruthless attempt to socialize David as a girl, and to give him the correct hormonal treatment to develop as one, his behavioral and psychological makeup was still ineradicably male. Eventually, with the help of more testosterone, he became a full man again.
> 
> Female-to-male transsexuals report a similar transformation when injected with testosterone. One, Susan/Drew Seidman, described her experience in The Village Voice last November. "*My sex-drive went through the roof*," *Seidman recalled. "I felt like I had to have sex once a day or I would die. ... I was into porn as a girl, but now I'm really into porn." For Seidman, becoming a man was not merely physical. Thanks to testosterone, it was also psychological. *"I'm not sure I can tell you what makes a man a man," Seidman averred. "But I know it's not a penis."


I like how the man writing (who has felt the effects of being injected with Test ) ended it - so true


> But it seems to me no disrespect to womanhood to say that I am perfectly happy to be a man, to feel things no woman will ever feel to the degree that I feel them, to experience the world in a way no woman ever has. And to do so without apology or shame.


Here is the article The He Hormone .... I think every woman should read this, although little about porn itself was mentioned.... the differences in MEN compared to women was spoken in quite depth, and how Levels majorly affect our psychological outlook. 

.


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## nicky1 (Jan 20, 2012)

only people with cold hearts can endure porn, this will get a reaction for sure but i dont care, porn is and always will be pure filth and a closer step to watching child porn and even rape videos..come on people time to clean your minds and live properly, sex is a beautiful thing but porn turns it into a repulsive thing remember the fire analogy, sex outside the bounds of a committed stable relationship will always bring negative consequences, proved by abortions stds, aids, a multitude of emotionally broken people, the lust of wicked men destroying uncountable lives, child prostitution, beastiality, need i say more, dont delude yourselves into thinking it is ok in any way


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

nicky1 said:


> come on people time to clean your minds and live properly, sex is a beautiful thing but porn turns it into a repulsive thing


Thanks nicky1. I think that relationships are beautiful things and sex should be a symbol of that commitment, love, and perseverance to maintain that reltionship forever. Porn implies that sex is EVERYTHING, no commitment, no love, no relationship.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

mommy22 said:


> BTW, it's quite upsetting that the largest number of males is in favor of porn while the largest number of females finds it inappropriate. Is there a disconnect?


This poll obviously is not a scientific poll, but the numbers are interesting regardless.


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## eastcoastgirl (Jul 8, 2011)

Porn is just like "for-play". Most of it has no story line, nothing except just doing the "deed".
I had much rather watch a sexually charged movie such as some of the scenes in Spartacus than any porn and I feel sure my husband would agree. 
However; at this juncture in our relationship, we are neither threatened by it. At one point in my life, I could say that I was constantly comparing myself to those women and although I did watch it with my husband, felt pangs of jealously.
I am so beyond that now and it all has to do with the security that we have with each other. He would never choose porn over me, no more than I would choose a vibrator over him.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

nicky1 said:


> only people with cold hearts can endure porn, this will get a reaction for sure but i dont care, porn is and always will be pure filth and a closer step to watching child porn and even rape videos..come on people time to clean your minds and live properly, sex is a beautiful thing but porn turns it into a repulsive thing remember the fire analogy, sex outside the bounds of a committed stable relationship will always bring negative consequences, proved by abortions stds, aids, a multitude of emotionally broken people, the lust of wicked men destroying uncountable lives, child prostitution, beastiality, need i say more, dont delude yourselves into thinking it is ok in any way


I believe Sex is a beautiful thing too, even *sacred*, me & my husband have only been with each other, waited for marraige for intercourse even- it is even hard to put into words what that means to me, to us. But yet, I won't judge the rest of the world for not seeing everything as I do...we all have our own lives to live, and enjoyments. And a little soft porn , I do not feel should be compared on the same level as some of the viler stuff you listed above. 

I also do not believe monogamy is "natural".... even though I would never argue that there is anything better for the raising of families , the health of a bonding marraige & Society as a whole. 

Scientifically, it simply is not "natural". I guess I am not for judging others for doing what comes natural to them -if /when it is not hurting anyone else. I don't care for the black & white mentality of those who judge this harshly -on others. 


science monogamy natural - Google Search

.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

YAY!!

Porn wins!!


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

eastcoastgirl said:


> Porn is just like "for-play". Most of it has no story line, nothing except just doing the "deed".
> I had much rather watch a sexually charged movie such as some of the scenes in Spartacus than any porn and I feel sure my husband would agree.
> However; at this juncture in our relationship, we are neither threatened by it. At one point in my life, I could say that I was constantly comparing myself to those women and although I did watch it with my husband, felt pangs of jealously.
> I am so beyond that now and it all has to do with the security that we have with each other. He would never choose porn over me, no more than I would choose a vibrator over him.


:iagree:

Its fun for play time sometimes and adds some spice but a little bit of story line would make it more interesting and a lot more fun to watch.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I wasn't trying to be a porn apologist.

If anyone can suggest better educational material for the male, I'm all ears.

And don't say - "your partner."

Honestly, half of the women don't know what they want in bed but they are expecting it to be pleasurable.

And I consider Fox News "Political Pornography" and HGTV "Pornography for Women."

Just watch women drool when HGTV comes on 

Actually there is a website. . .I won't list it because it is semi-pornographic - shows all the sex positions and so forth for couples. (actually, one of the women here linked me to it). It's very instructional.

You'd be surprised at the number of young women and men who are on the forum, virgins, wanting to know if this is the position I should do it in for the first time, is this position pleasurable for him, for her, etc. . .

Again, where are they going to get this information?

It's an honest question. . .how about I put it this way.

Realbrighteyes, Riverside, et al don't like porn. It's offensive to them.

Well ok, then offer an alternative. It's not a matter of winning. . .it's a matter there is no where to go for the nitty-gritty of sex.

As far as sex being sacred. . .

I am reminded of the line from the 40 Year Old Virgin, who regarded sex and women as so sacred, he said he never touched women.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

mommy22 said:


> BTW, it's quite upsetting that the largest number of males is in favor of porn while the largest number of females finds it inappropriate. Is there a disconnect?


and yet many men here refuse to see that this may be a problem in their marriage, even if their wives dont say anything about it.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

And I am not trying to nuture this disconnect. . .I cna recall there was a poster who worked in the porn industry who came here once justifying all the porn industry does (and made quite a thesis). Even I was uncomfortable with all the justification and it made me take pause.

I dunno. . .maybe technology will be the answer. . .the website that this woman referred me to just basically has computer generated human forms in sexual positions. No one is exploited and it's "instructive". Of course, the human forms are "ideal" in construct, but it allows men and women to be students of the male and female body and sexuality without exploiting women (and men).

I realize too this is only one dimension of porn. . .there are couple out there who like to exhibit, and porn does go beyond the "visual" (domination, submission, etc.)

I do hope the Heydey of Pornography is over and will declilne for natural reasons. . .I don't think we are all on opposite sides necessarily.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

oops I didn't read the whole thread.

Scanner ....it seems you're considering how we (or some boys/young men) learn about sexuality, perhaps more so than porn itself? The Kama Sutra apparently came about in the 3rd century by a celibate monk. Of course the Kama Sutra is also more than just sexual positions. This forum is even visited seeking advice/ideas. I don't think we all just learn from our partners. There's usually a starting point with sexuality. So in that regard, if I'm reading you properly Scanner, I do actually get where you're coming from.


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## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

Riverside MFT said:


> Thanks nicky1. I think that relationships are beautiful things and sex should be a symbol of that commitment, love, and perseverance to maintain that reltionship forever. Porn implies that sex is EVERYTHING, no commitment, no love, no relationship.


I agree that much of male-produced porn IS insensitive and treats women like objects. It is hard to argue otherwise. I think it in some instances it may do so intentionally but, in other instances is it merely trying to to "cut to the chase" I mean if you were to watch most men view porn in private they will fast forward though any diologue, romance etc...to get to the "good part". Porn geared toward men unlike romance novel don't want stories of women being wisked off in private jets or having romantic diologue. 

Furthermore, who is/should be getting their morality/values etc. from porn or any other movies/tv for that matter.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

For the poster that stated she disliked porn due to her own body issues, is that porn's fault, or the very mainstream media you probably indulge in? This is not a defense or ridicule of porn, but it seems the women who have an issue with it all say the same thing. "I give him all the sex and blah blah blah..." What they fail to realize is, quantity is not directly related to quality. My wife wants a lot of sex, doesn't mean I am thrilled about it by default. I have had much better sex with the women I dated before my wife, but, I guess great sex is a sacrifice I made for a stable, suituated household. And for those people arguing how gruesome an industry it is, don't the women in these roles have a choice to enter the industry, yet they still do. If I am applying for a job, I think I would go out and do as much research on it as possible. Now if I take the job understanding the occupational hazards, I don't see anyone lobbying for my cause. And you might say, "oh, you're defending it because you're one of those guys." I do watch porn, but my imagination is way more capable at getting me off than any porn can. That, and I rather the amatuer stuff prsonally, industry stuff is too over done.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

mikeydread1982 said:


> And for those people arguing how gruesome an industry it is, don't the women in these roles have a choice to enter the industry, yet they still do.


The choice for some of these women might be making $200 a week flipping burgers or making that same amount in one hour by getting involved in the porn industry. Flipping burgers does not pay the bills.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Riverside MFT said:


> The choice for some of these women might be making $200 a week flipping burgers or making that same amount in one hour by getting involved in the porn industry. Flipping burgers does not pay the bills.


Therein lies your problem, not porn, but that woman's greed. I am sure most of the women here would rather flip burgers for that $200 than go off and shoot a flick. So again, the decision another adult human being makes is of no consequence to me. Pornography being acted out between 2 consenting adults should not be abhored, anything outside of that, certainly. And the porn industry is not like slavery or the holocaust, none of the stars are being held captive and threatened with their lives if they refuse to perform. And if that were to occur, there are authorities that can be called if that happened on a set.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

And for those saying one should learn about sex solely from their partner, what about that guy who doesn't have sex until his mid twenties, for whatever reason, meets a girl who has had more experience than he does, and she is disappointed in his performance, ridicules him to his face and to her friends? A lot of women do that, i've seen and heard it. Porn has taught me about things that would have otherwised upset me. Squirting for instance, the first time I saw it was in porn, and it intrigued me to go an do research on it. Now can you imagine how surprised and upset I would have been not knowing about it before hand and thinking a woman pissed on me?! That was the thought process of men in the 50's and prior, women were having those kinds of orgasms since then but were too ashamed of it because of the reaction from the men, who knew no better because their women expected them to know what they were doing. So with everything, there is good and bad to be found in it.


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## IAMCIV (Nov 8, 2011)

nicky1 said:


> only people with cold hearts can endure porn, this will get a reaction for sure but i dont care, porn is and always will be pure filth and a closer step to watching child porn and even rape videos..come on people time to clean your minds and live properly, sex is a beautiful thing but porn turns it into a repulsive thing remember the fire analogy, sex outside the bounds of a committed stable relationship will always bring negative consequences, proved by abortions stds, aids, a multitude of emotionally broken people, the lust of wicked men destroying uncountable lives, child prostitution, beastiality, need i say more, dont delude yourselves into thinking it is ok in any way


Seriously? Clean up our minds and live properly according to who? Some god, I suppose? Why can't people understand that people are different. Some women I've known have liked porn and some don't. some guys do, some don't. Some people think it's apporpiate, some don't. 

How does watching consenting adults lead to things like child prostitution? Or Beastialty? Seriously? One co-worker of mine was extremely open about her sexuality, she enjoyed watching porn with her husband and talked about it as openly as going to a regular movie. My wife feels it doesn't belong in a relationship. There are billions of people in this world, not everyone considers looking at porn to be dirty and its not just lustful men destroying lives. Plenty of women have done the same.

I'm not saying that I think its ok or not ok, I'm just saying that everyone is different.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

mikeydread1982 said:


> And for those saying one should learn about sex solely from their partner, what about that guy who doesn't have sex until his mid twenties, for whatever reason, meets a girl who has had more experience than he does,


When my H and I got married at the age of 25 the only experience he had with a girl was porn and it almost destroyed our marriage. The problem was I had more experience with people; he only had experience with himself and a monitor. Huge disconnect. 

If you're with the right girl then any surprises can be navigated as easily as when you saw it in porn for the first time. If you're becoming intimate with a girl without first knowing that you can trust her then you've got a different problem. But that's the thing about dealing with real people and not monitors; you have to learn to communicate and deal with your insecurities. That's something my H has an incredibly hard time doing since he never faced those fears and never learned how to communicate. He's sexually knowledgable and pleasure driven but intimately and emotionally inept.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

nicky1 said:


> only people with cold hearts can endure porn, this will get a reaction for sure but i dont care, porn is and always will be pure filth and a closer step to watching child porn and even rape videos..come on people time to clean your minds and live properly, sex is a beautiful thing but porn turns it into a repulsive thing remember the fire analogy, sex outside the bounds of a committed stable relationship will always bring negative consequences, proved by abortions stds, aids, a multitude of emotionally broken people, the lust of wicked men destroying uncountable lives, child prostitution, beastiality, need i say more, dont delude yourselves into thinking it is ok in any way


:iagree:


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

As a mother of 3 sons (teens and older) I'm horrified to learn that so many young men are learning how to be a 'great lover' from porn... it would be funny if it wasn't so awful.

I've made a point of telling my boys that in my view.... Porn is as much like real sex as the rest of the movie industry is like real life.
It's bull**** and fantasy.

Personally I believe porn is a problem...when it's a problem (same for shopping, gambling, alcohol, drugs etc).
When it's chosen over a loving and willing partner or when it interfers with relationships/jobs/commitments in the 'real' world.

I hate shopping and cleaning the oven almost as much as I hate porn...but sigh... you just can't go around banning everything thing you hate.


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

Porn is here, it is not going anywhere. The internet is the latest avenue of delivery. Porn has been around since the first cave painting was made. It will be around long after we are all just a memory.

It is up to parents to make their kids understand how real people treat each other, in real life. If a kid has a good base of education in the home, their understanding of fake and real will allow them to make good decisions.

That is the same base of education that will allow them to make decisions about sex, drugs, alcohol, tobacco, drunk driving or any other "challenge" they face.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Mistys dad said:


> Porn is here, it is not going anywhere. The internet is the latest avenue of delivery. Porn has been around since the first cave painting was made. It will be around long after we are all just a memory.
> 
> It is up to parents to make their kids understand how real people treat each other, in real life. If a kid has a good base of education in the home, their understanding of fake and real will allow them to make good decisions.
> 
> That is the same base of education that will allow them to make decisions about sex, drugs, alcohol, tobacco, drunk driving or any other "challenge" they face.


Seriously, this is the only approach there is...as responsible parents -if we don't want our children to grow up with a warped sense of Sex. Me & my husband like a little Soft porn, some here may look upon us as bad parents....if you only knew our kids! Our oldest son wants to be a Youth Pastor, still a virgin at 21---by choice, he has many girls after him, he is good looking- opportunities could be his. Him & my 14 yr son both wear thier Purity "silver rings" proudly (did a thread on that) ... we are very open about sex in our household... they see a good example in our home about how a marraige should be, how you treat someone you love....they also know me & their dad waited till marraige. 

...And WE TALK ABOUT SEX. Both of these sons struggle with wanting to look upon Porn. We caught the 14 yr old last year....the way we handled it some may find VERY ODD - maybe even a little CRAZY .... but at the end of the day... the communication flowed very very nicely, my son learned something , he didn't feel shamed by us, which allowed him to open up, even brought a little humor to the situation. 

Am I shocked...my young son wants to go here & set his eyes on this --- of course not, I'm no fool. It is natural for young boys raging in puberty to want to go there. 

Story below... please listen to the mindset of a stugging young male...what he said to ME...... Both of my older sons believe Porn is wrong because of their beliefs -like many on this thread. I am accually very proud of them for taking the stand they do. BUt even my oldest had to put Blockers on his computer cause he is admittably "weak" in this area, he near hates himself for it - he must keep busy...throwing himself into his guitar & music helps him not go there. I am not corrupting my children.....even though we , as adults DO enjoy it.... (we have our dvd's under lock & key in a small filing cabnet in our bedroom closet).

This was taken from another of my threads over a year ago -copy & pasted...


> So we as parents MUST have some influence on their hearts, their minds. All the more to have our home be that safe haven where ALL can be brought up (even sexual matters), discussed, parents listening 1st if they are daring enough to open up -THEN explaining the whys when instructing & enforcing. I know my kids feel this freedom. There is literally nothing they would feel "threatened" to bring up to me or their dad. Not that they always would!!! Teens will be teens - But they know they can, this is so important.
> 
> I have a little story ... some may find our tactics very strange, HOW me & the husband dealt with this, but I am very pleased with the outcome & it didn't end with "shaming" our son, which is what we wanted to avoid.
> 
> ...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I thInk porn has adverse affects men and women and it will get worse in the next generation. Men because they are more likely to prefer sex acts with women that bring them quick and easy orgasms with little effort on their part.

Women because the pressure will be on them to be servants to male orgasmic pleasure. Not many women with options, are not likely to enter into such an arrangement. 

More women than ever are opting to have a career. The financial independence may make a service relationship with a man less attractive,

I love my husband but if I were to find myself single again in the present environment, I would not get into another relationship. 

I am too proud to be vetted for a relationship based on my willingness to give bj, hj and anal sex. I am worth a lot more than the sum of my parts. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Yup, because women are the victims here. Women don't want the quick orgasm...Seriously, this isn't the 50's, both sexes are equally responsible. Women have asked for equality and it only serves the purpose when convenient. Get over yourselves. You think men don't want careers and God forbid you were single again, you would not find another man to put up with your lack of wanting to put in effort sexually. No one is asking for you to be a sexual deviant.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Blanca said:


> When my H and I got married at the age of 25 the only experience he had with a girl was porn and it almost destroyed our marriage. The problem was I had more experience with people; he only had experience with himself and a monitor. Huge disconnect.
> 
> If you're with the right girl then any surprises can be navigated as easily as when you saw it in porn for the first time. If you're becoming intimate with a girl without first knowing that you can trust her then you've got a different problem. But that's the thing about dealing with real people and not monitors; you have to learn to communicate and deal with your insecurities. That's something my H has an incredibly hard time doing since he never faced those fears and never learned how to communicate. He's sexually knowledgable and pleasure driven but intimately and emotionally inept.


If you're with the right girl....IF. Your husband lucked out and found a woman that probably wouldn't put his business out there, but you obviously did judge him based on his approach. So either way, even though he waited, it's still not enough. And how many men did you have to go through to develop that tolerance and understanding? And you ever thought that he was emotionally inept before porn?


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

waiwera said:


> As a mother of 3 sons (teens and older) I'm horrified to learn that so many young men are learning how to be a 'great lover' from porn... it would be funny if it wasn't so awful.
> 
> I've made a point of telling my boys that in my view.... Porn is as much like real sex as the rest of the movie industry is like real life.
> It's bull**** and fantasy.
> ...


Just like how young girls are fed Disney fairy tales and told they're princesses and all type of rubbish. Its the same damaging effects. That's why I tell my daughter, you're not a princess, or any other foolishness like that. I tell her she's an intelligent, and beautiful girl, and teach her not to fall to labels that people like you are quick to cast on people.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Riverside MFT said:


> There are a lot of different opinions on pornography and I wanted to see the differences between men and women from this forum. I personally think that porn can be very damaging to a marriage. What are your thoughts?


Here is my 2 cents on the issue. I have watched many kinds in my day more so when I was younger and in my single days. I couldn't tell you the last time my wife and I watched any. Its something that I do not need or have to have for sexual fullfillment with my wife. We both have a active imagination and thats good enough for us. We do not need the visual aid of porn for spice. IMO I think the industry has gotten worse over the years and will continue to do so as long as people are willing to help to contribute to the making of it. I believe if people feel they need it or have to have it in their life for whatever reason, then thats their choice. My choice is I do not feel that way and I'm actually glad about that. To each their own.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Blanca said:


> If you're with the right girl then any surprises can be navigated as easily as when you saw it in porn for the first time. If you're becoming intimate with a girl without first knowing that you can trust her then you've got a different problem. But that's the thing about dealing with real people and not monitors; you have to learn to communicate and deal with your insecurities. That's something my H has an incredibly hard time doing since he never faced those fears and never learned how to communicate. *He's sexually knowledgable and pleasure driven but intimately and emotionally inept*.


:iagree:

I especially agree with the part I bolded in that a lot about making an intimate relationship flourish is to nourish it - in all of its aspects.

If all you can do, or are interested in, is the mechanical aspects of sex - with a count of acts and orgasms, but you cannot really relate intimately and emotionally with your partner at the same time and incorporate both the physical and emotional element in to your relationship, then your relationship will eventually wither and die.

That is the problem with thinking you can use porn as some sort of educational facility - you won't be getting anything about how to actually RELATE to another individual in any emotionally meaningful way - and THAT is the relationship skill that is the greatest one to have in order to build and maintain a mutually satisfying, long-term intimate relationship.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I especially agree with the part I bolded in that a lot about making an intimate relationship flourish is to nourish it - in all of its aspects.
> 
> ...


Well, obviously. I wouldn't go to a pastor to teach me about sex either. You must know what the tool is intended for. And by the way, nowhere in everyday life does it teach you how do any of those things you stated, it's learned. Each woman a man will come across would be different, so teaching him one way how to be emotionally involved and being able to relate may not work the same for every woman. However, as special and different most women are, sexually, majority of them are similar. Meaning they reapond to the same stimulii. Aroused by their necks, breasts, stomachs, clitoris, vagina, inner thighs...you get the picture. Learning how to stimulate those areas effectively will make you a better lover right out of the gates. 
And just like food, cars, people, not all are bad, not all are good. You have to find what you are comfortable with, the same in the porn you choose. I don't watch the gruesome stuff, not even bdsm, I like plain old regular sex porn. You may need to tone down what you're looking at there.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> I mean if you were to watch most men view porn in private they will fast forward though any diologue, romance etc...to get to the "good part". Porn geared toward men unlike romance novel don't want stories of women being wisked off in private jets or having romantic diologue


It has been said that romance novels conjure up mental images that no male can live up to - able to fulfill and anticipate every emotional (and financial) need of a woman. Knowing when to take a woman, knowing when to not be interested. . .

Yet, men don't seem to be as jealous of Dirk and Fabio as women are of Bambi and Peaches. . .wonder why. . .


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

This jealousy comment is so common. You think it is the best way to stifle discussion? But I would need to be insecure for that to work. 

The not so subtle implication is that women dislike porn because we are in comparison to the perfection of porn women wanting in our partners eyes. 

If we were not old, fat and ugly, we would have nothing to worry about. If we made more of an effort to compete with the porn actresses in looks and skills for our mates there would be no problem.

Come up with something unique if you want to control the exchange. Women are concerned for the men they love and their kids.

I have a son and daughter. My concern is for them. If you have children you should think of them as well. That takes an ability to reason outside of the rationalizations men commonly use to support porn. 

If there is any possibility of harm to a sizable proportion of the next generations of kids, why chance it? Is porn more important than the future of our own kids? 

Google the new syndrome of ED among young men. The common thread, early and chronic masturbation to internet porn. 

Google increasing prevalence relationship problems of men in their middle to late 20's. They have a hard time getting hard and maintaining an erection. They are not stimulated by their partner even though they find them attractive. 

These men want to connect but women wont stay if they feel that the man is not sexually attracted to them. The common thread, early and chronic masturbation to internet porn. 

I think there is enough convincing evidence to show that porn is a big problem but we will have to wait for maybe 5 - 10 years. The current batch of men in their 20's who have been exposed since childhood will be in their 30's. 

By that time, many will be unable to maintain an erection to even the most extreme porn let alone a live woman. 

Internet porn will go the way of crack cocaine. The generation to follow will see the sad effect of porn on their older peers and avoid their fate.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> I hope you are also telling your daughter that she may not be the fantasy princess but she is precious and to treat herself and others with that in mind.
> 
> I dont understand what you mean about the 50's comment and women being victims.
> 
> ...


Oh believe me, I do tell my daughter all the things to build her self confidence and self reliance. 

So, has anyone done any research into why so many women have these very unrealistic expectations of relationships and why they always end up getting hurt? I don't see anyone petitioning to ban disney and their fairy tales. And yes, i am using that example again because I am showing that people only fight the battle that suits their situation. And I don't see how a man has ED if he is getting it up to porn. Maybe it's his spouse he is not attracted to, but that is not porn's fault. Aren't the women in porn real people, I mean, there are posters on this site fighting for their rights, so the physiques they possess, what is wrong if men realize that is what they like? And people say porn has warped men's mind on the woman's physique and what sex is to be. Well, if I am expected to wow my woman and sweep her off her feet and be there for her emotionally, financially and otherwise, what's wrong if I expect her to look hot. because any intelligent, upright standing man will tell you, no porn star has the perfect body, you'd be a fool to think that they do, but they might have an attribute that is attractive to that man that maybe his woman does not, and a little enlightenment never hurt a soul.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

I didn't find to many things when searched for effects of romance novels and disney characters on people and relationships, But found right many on the effects of porn on people and relationships.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

CallaLily said:


> I didn't find to many things when searched for effects of romance novels and disney characters on people and relationships, But found right many on the effects of porn on people and relationships.


absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. but a reasonable person would stand to think the effects are similar, it's just the delivery method is different. Having these mediums create unrealistic expectations of one's partner based upon an ideal visual. Like I said before, I stand to gain nothing from defending the position of porn, its just unreasonable and plain foolish to think how only men are destroying relationships based solely on something they watch, while you see women sitting around expecting roses and and men on white horses. Where do think the saying "Waiting for her knight in shining armor" comes from? You don't hear of a saying "Waiting for my porn star to suck me dry", so if anyone that has a real issue here, its women. Men know, we watch porn to get off, not to say, "man, my wife is nothing like this." Whatever happens to a weaker man subconcisouly is another story. But you DO hear when women watch the notebook for instance, and all these romantic comedies or fairy tales "awwww, I wish my guy would do that..." say i'm lying, i'll wait.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You mean if women made more of an effort to be like porn actresses - fall upon an erect penis, fake orgasms, focus on his pleasure with no expectations that men would stop watching porn? 

That is your solution? 

So it is woman who are at fault for driving men to the destructive influences of porn? 

There are some men who manage to take proud responsibility for the preservation of their manhood. They may watch porn but don't go over board. 

They are careful not to let anything control them, including their mate. They take the responsibility to be loving and careful not to play into the insecurities that most men know women have. 

These men like women. If they are married to a women who is mentally healthy things usually work out. 

My husband is like that.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

mikeydread1982 said:


> absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. but a reasonable person would stand to think the effects are similar, it's just the delivery method is different. Having these mediums create unrealistic expectations of one's partner based upon an ideal visual. Like I said before, I stand to gain nothing from defending the position of porn, its just unreasonable and plain foolish to think how only men are destroying relationships based solely on something they watch, while you see women sitting around expecting roses and and men on white horses. Where do think the saying "Waiting for her knight in shining armor" comes from? You don't hear of a saying "Waiting for my porn star to suck me dry", so if anyone that has a real issue here, its women. Men know, we watch porn to get off, not to say, "man, my wife is nothing like this." Whatever happens to a weaker man subconcisouly is another story. But you DO hear when women watch the notebook for instance, and all these romantic comedies or fairy tales "awwww, I wish my guy would do that..." say i'm lying, i'll wait.


Damn man take a chill pill, its gonna be ok!


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

mikeydread1982 said:


> because I am showing that people only fight the battle that suits their situation.


Thats for sure! 

If you're a lover of porn they will fight it till the death, same for those who love anything. Gonna fight it tooth and nail to prove the point of why something is either good or not.


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

mikeydread1982 said:


> absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. but a reasonable person would stand to think the effects are similar, it's just the delivery method is different. Having these mediums create unrealistic expectations of one's partner based upon an ideal visual. Like I said before, I stand to gain nothing from defending the position of porn, its just unreasonable and plain foolish to think how only men are destroying relationships based solely on something they watch, while you see women sitting around expecting roses and and men on white horses. Where do think the saying "Waiting for her knight in shining armor" comes from? You don't hear of a saying "Waiting for my porn star to suck me dry", so if anyone that has a real issue here, its women. Men know, we watch porn to get off, not to say, "man, my wife is nothing like this." Whatever happens to a weaker man subconcisouly is another story. But you DO hear when women watch the notebook for instance, and all these romantic comedies or fairy tales "awwww, I wish my guy would do that..." say i'm lying, i'll wait.



I actually have heard guys say that porn star line and across the internet read men talk about watching porn because "man, my wife/gf is nothing like that" or "its something my wife won't do"

I grew up watching Disney and i never expected that crap. Roses would be nice on a birthday and anniversary (ironically that's when my husband can expect a bj, j/k), and my husband can't go near horses he's allergic, problem solved: roses 2x a year and no horses. I don't think that's unrealistic on my part.

I don't think women have the real issue here and its not just because I'm a woman. What about the boys who watch disney movies and play the prince and protector? My nephew does it all time and when not watching the movies he now likes to protect his mom "from the bad guys" aka his wwe action figures. So he's growing up with the idea to protect women but I guess I should tell his mother to stop letting him watch that stuff since it is an unrealistic view and he can start acting like the little boy down the street currently teaching the other kids to cuss (wonder what he might be watching?)

This problem can affect a man or woman(granted more likely to be a man but still) so if a husband finds out his wife is looking at porn masturbating all the time but only having sex with him once a week or month he should be OK with it, just accept it?


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> You mean if women made more of an effort to be like porn actresses - fall upon an erect penis, fake orgasms, focus on his pleasure with no expectations that men would stop watching porn?
> 
> That is your solution?
> 
> ...


Comprehension is obviously something that needs work here, lol. You obviously did not read where I said WEAK men allow that to happen to them. As far as I know, it's not a majority of men runnig around with ED, and i'm sure of those men, most of them watch porn, or have watched. Women don't make men do anything, just like men don't make women do anything. I said as plain as day, just as how you are blaming one medium for affecting how men see women, that same blame can be cast on the other medium for how women expect men to be. Be fair and unbiased. And to show what I mean, sure, your husband will never expect you to act like a porn star, or look like one, or perform like one. However, let him not get you something on a birthday, valentine's day, mother's day, christmas, new years, or whatever you do celebrate. Or let him not do those emotional things that he is doing now, takes a day off from it maybe, your panties would be in a wad. So again, who has the unrealistic expectation? And I know you're going to say it wouldn't matter, but seriously, we're here to be real.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Jamison said:


> Thats for sure!
> 
> If you're a lover of porn they will fight it till the death, same for those who love anything. Gonna fight it tooth and nail to prove the point of why something is either good or not.



Oh, I see what you did there, lol. No, don't love porn, I use the memory bank for my alone time. I actually rather go off sex i've had than sex I probably won't ever get. I'm not a fantasy kinda guy. I'm just annoyed by the stance that people have on a choice drive industry. Some people say, oh the girls are mistreated, well, they chose to do it. some say porn ruins marriages, no it doesn't, something your spouse is doing or you aren't doing ruined your marriage.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

square1 said:


> I actually have heard guys say that porn star line and across the internet read men talk about watching porn because "man, my wife/gf is nothing like that" or "its something my wife won't do"
> 
> I grew up watching Disney and i never expected that crap. Roses would be nice on a birthday and anniversary (ironically that's when my husband can expect a bj, j/k), and my husband can't go near horses he's allergic, problem solved: roses 2x a year and no horses. I don't think that's unrealistic on my part.
> 
> ...



And i'm sure when you hear those guys make those statements, they are referring to bj's or doggystyle, not ramming them with 12" dildos. come on, be real. It's just like here, most men complaining about not getting sex or bj's, you'll have that one or two that want's to have his wife be with someone else or do something crazy with, but definietly the minority. 

On your second point, hahahaha, allergic to horses, lol. If you really are that woman you claim to be, which I doubt, but will believe for arguments sake. So at what point did you come to the realization that you should not expect that from men? I'm sure it was some relationship, maybe before your husband, that opened your eyes. 

As for your nephew watching disney, I am referring to dating age people, not kids exploring their imaginations. And when your nephew grows up, he will have the right idea of being the protector, but notice, he is not getting the idea that he should be some soft guy bringing flowers and crying and being super sensitive. He wants to be a tough guy and protect his mom, like all good boys do. All his mom should do is let him know that boys don't hit girls, or prey on the weak. as for the kid who is cursing, that's bad or inadequate parenting, not porn. 

And for you to sit there and say you don't know of the women I speak of that think life should be like the notebook, then you need to never meet other women in the world because your husband caught an untainted one, or you're just a liar, lol. 

And again with the comprehension, where did I say the problem cannot affect either sex. We know that, we are just discussing the more common recurrence of the issue.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

mikeydread1982 said:


> Oh, I see what you did there, lol. No, don't love porn, I use the memory bank for my alone time. I actually rather go off sex i've had than sex I probably won't ever get. I'm not a fantasy kinda guy. I'm just annoyed by the stance that people have on a choice drive industry. Some people say, oh the girls are mistreated, well, they chose to do it. some say porn ruins marriages, no it doesn't, something your spouse is doing or you aren't doing ruined your marriage.


HUH? What did I do? I'm simply saying people who love porn will defend it to end and find all reasons why its ok...just as other people who love other things would do the same.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Jamison said:


> HUH? What did I do? I'm simply saying people who love porn will defend it to end and find all reasons why its ok...just as other people who love other things would do the same.


Oh, misread your tone. Thought you were taking a jab.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

CallaLily said:


> Damn man take a chill pill, its gonna be ok!


Lol, its all good. I just love to debate, even flat out argue sometimes. that's why i'm awesome at my job.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Jamison said:


> Thats for sure!
> 
> If you're a lover of porn they will fight it till the death, same for those who love anything. Gonna fight it tooth and nail to prove the point of why something is either good or not.


:iagree:

And some will go up, over and beyond to defend certain things, almost like they are obsessed.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Yay!!

Porn`s still winning!

I really think the ladies who have a problem with their mans porn viewing habits are missing the actual problem.

The problem is not the porn, the problem is your man is weak or you have a man clinging to a sexually unsatisfactory marriage by substituting porn for intimacy.

Lets see how many cop to either probability.


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

mikeydread1982 said:


> And i'm sure when you hear those guys make those statements, they are referring to bj's or doggystyle, not ramming them with 12" dildos. come on, be real. It's just like here, most men complaining about not getting sex or bj's, you'll have that one or two that want's to have his wife be with someone else or do something crazy with, but definietly the minority.


I wouldn't be too sure about anything now reading some of the fetishes I have come across on the internet.



> On your second point, hahahaha, allergic to horses, lol. If you really are that woman you claim to be, which I doubt, but will believe for arguments sake. So at what point did you come to the realization that you should not expect that from men? I'm sure it was some relationship, maybe before your husband, that opened your eyes.


Just the way I grew up. And i have been with my husband since I was 16 (now 28) and before him i didn't even want a relationship always seemed like too much drama. I had a lot of guy friends some who wanted to date me but to me it wasn't worth the hassle. Something just clicked when I met my husband, we hung out for a few months and then officially started dating and have been together ever since. In the beginning he used to bring me flowers all the time and I told him to stop it they were nice but he was spending too much money and they die in like a week. 



> As for your nephew watching disney, I am referring to dating age people, not kids exploring their imaginations. And when your nephew grows up, he will have the right idea of being the protector, but notice, he is not getting the idea that he should be some soft guy bringing flowers and crying and being super sensitive. He wants to be a tough guy and protect his mom, like all good boys do. All his mom should do is let him know that boys don't hit girls, or prey on the weak. as for the kid who is cursing, that's bad or inadequate parenting, not porn.


Didn't say it was porn but I don't think he's getting it from Tangled. And no my nephew doesn't think he should be super sensitive or crying all the time but he is being raised to listen and talk. Why does a guy have to be soft if he brings a girl flowers?



> And for you to sit there and say you don't know of the women I speak of that think life should be like the notebook, then you need to never meet other women in the world because your husband caught an untainted one, or you're just a liar, lol.


I don't recall saying I don't know any women like you speak of, I said I def wasnt one of them. Hell I have worked with a few girls like that on and off through out the years but most of the women I know don't act in this way.



> And again with the comprehension, where did I say the problem cannot affect either sex. We know that, we are just discussing the more common recurrence of the issue.


So the common recurrence is Disney movies and women being unrealistic or more and more people seem to be turning to porn to get off cause its easier and requires no effort or connection?


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Yay!!
> 
> Porn`s still winning!
> 
> ...


Luckily porn is something I could take or leave.

BUT, I do wonder what people would do had their never been any porn? Where would they turn to if they were weak, or the sex with their spouse was unsatisfactory? I guess they would continue to hold on to their own gear shift or maybe drive their car into anothers garage? Well, some people do that anyway......


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Yay!!
> 
> Porn`s still winning!
> 
> ...


My husband told me he turned to porn to deal with any negativity/stress he felt. It was easier for him to deal with that way and he felt he would be bothering me with his troubles and didn't realize that using so much porn and masturbating was taking away from us cause it made him feel happy at the time so he thought everything was OK then.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

square1 said:


> I wouldn't be too sure about anything now reading some of the fetishes I have come across on the internet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


See, I knew you were different. Now I feel you were just saying things to get a rise out of me, lol. And no, being soft and bringing flowers are not related. LOL @ Tangled. I literally laughed when I read that.

Most of the women who don't act that way have come to the realization that men are as close to prince charming as they are to jenna jameson. Actually, we're closer, but you get the point. 
And it does annoy me when I see grown women act that way still. 
And for your last question, a combination of the 2.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

CallaLily said:


> Luckily porn is something I could take or leave.
> 
> BUT, I do wonder what people would do had their never been any porn? Where would they turn to if they were weak, or the sex with their spouse was unsatisfactory? I guess they would continue to hold on to their own gear shift or maybe drive their car into anothers garage? Well, some people do that anyway......


I guess they would not have discovered their weakness and went on to live productive lives. maybe more spousal rapes, or divorces if the there were the same rate of unsatisfactory sex.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Yay!!
> 
> Porn`s still winning!
> 
> ...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

The thing that bothers me the most about the whole porn debate is.... the non-users will judge it as near emotional death to a marraige ....they can not acknowlege the fact this is simply not true of every marraige. 

I do not feel such wide brushes should be used , it is not true in my own marraige and it makes me want to argue the side of those how enjoy it.

It doesn't bother me if others choose thier own path -being an uncrossable boundary for them, we all have our agreements in marraige ......but why judge those outside of your marraige and presume it is as dark & dire as you paint it to be. 

Personally, I wouldn't even want to be with a man so morally strict as to never look at it ever -then he would judge me for enjoying some of the soft stuff, I have no desire to be married to the Preacher type, it just wouldn't be working out. And I don't really think I am a bad person. But its kinda sad, because I know by saying this, judgement is automatically brought down upon me, my marriage , just for speaking this. 

A shame I say.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Yay!!
> 
> Porn`s still winning!


Of course it is, it always will be with dealers and buyers.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Um. . .it was more just a random thought or wondering. . .not a thesis. . .on the porn character vs. romance novel character thing. Don't worry. . .wasn't forwarding it as a thesis.

I have noticed (not that I read many) that no man can live up to the standard in those books, just as women cna't live up to the standards in porns.

That being said, I really doubt any intelligent man expects that anyway.

But men would hope and perhaps expect that women enjoy sex, that's all. . .well, this thread has probably run it's course with me. . .as long as we all hope it declines in usage.


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> The thing that bothers me the most about the whole porn debate is.... the non-users will judge it as near emotional death to a marraige ....they can not acknowlege the fact this is simply not true of every marraige.
> 
> I do not feel such wide brushes should be used , it is not true in my own marraige and it makes me want to argue the side of those how enjoy it.
> 
> ...


I'm not against everyone using porn. I'm stating for my own marriage now. If you still have a good relationship with your spouse and neither is being neglected, communication is good etc then I see no problem.

Like I said in another thread about porn when my husband started acting a little weird and distant I started digging cause i really thought he was having an affair. That's when i discovered the massive amount of porn and started noticing his habit/timing. My first thought was crap now I'm gunna be one of those wives. I had no problem with porn prior to this he used it on and off through out our relationship. But when it crossed over from occasional use to almost obsessive and he used it to cope with anything he was dealing with essentially shutting me out of our relationship then I put my foot down.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Jamison said:


> Of course it is, it always will be with dealers and buyers.


Why would you buy porn?

The internet is packed full of it for free.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Why would you buy porn?
> 
> The internet is packed full of it for free.


Yes I thought of that after I posted this...so maybe just the dealers then! 

I don't buy it or get it free, don't need it.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Jamison said:


> Yes I thought of that after I posted this...so maybe just the dealers then!
> 
> I don't buy it or get it free, don't need it.


Heck nobody "needs it" but the vast majority of "things" nobody needs.

if I got rid of everything I don`t need I`d be sitting in a tent with a bag of food and a bottle of water.

Where`s the life in that?


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Heck nobody "needs it" but the vast majority of "things" nobody needs.
> 
> if I got rid of everything I don`t need I`d be sitting in a tent with a bag of food and a bottle of water.
> 
> Where`s the life in that?


I think you should give it a try! :smthumbup:

Need it/want it..whatever.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Jamison said:


> I think you should give it a try! :smthumbup:


I`ve done it, it`s no fun.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Yay!!
> 
> Porn`s still winning!
> 
> ...


If you read my "fed up with him preferring porn" thread, you'll see I had a very open mind about the problem. I got good suggestions from mikeydread1982 and others and I am working on me. I'm not saying I'm definitely the problem (I had gained some weight that I am currently losing) or maybe I'm not being exciting enough in bed. Maybe the problem is him. We'll find out. I don't care whose at fault, I just plan on doing whatever needs to be done to make us both happy in our marriage.

I never had a problem with him viewing porn until he began neglecting me. I have no problem putting in the work if it means getting the results I want.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

I know this isn't quite on topic, but these polls/threads about porn always amuse me. Posting a poll/thread on a marriage forum regarding porn would be like starting a poll on evolution on a Christian forum. You're going to get a very self-selected and slanted sampling that may or may not be a valid representation of the public's opinion at large.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

tacoma said:


> Yay!!
> 
> Porn`s still winning!
> 
> ...


Well lets see you cop to this, you equate porn with intimacy? How about sex with women - what is that? 

Can you please explain how you manage to have intimacy with a computer monitor and a porn video? 

If you are having intimate relationships with porn actresses, what do you have with your partner?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

mikeydread1982 said:


> I mean, sure, your husband will never expect you to act like a porn star, or look like one, or perform like one. However, let him not get you something on a birthday, valentine's day, mother's day, christmas, new years, or whatever you do celebrate. Or let him not do those emotional things that he is doing now, takes a day off from it maybe, your panties would be in a wad. So again, who has the unrealistic expectation? And I know you're going to say it wouldn't matter, but seriously, we're here to be real.


No, in fact it does matter. I give gifts too (surprise surprise) I would be hurt if he did not think of me and remember special days. He is the same way. 

I don't have your bean counting mentality. I do have feelings though and they get hurt when my husband does not think of me. 

By your distorted logic, his gift-giving takes a monumental extra effort and mine count for so little that I need make up the deficit with bj's? 

In my opinion, to feel entitled to porn acts in payment for gifts as you do, a man would have to devalue what his wife does for him. I don't detect that in my marriage, thank God.

Maybe some men are able to compartmentalize the feelings of guilt for not appreciating their wives? I have read that men can do that when sex is involved.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

mikeydread1982 said:


> but you obviously did judge him based on his approach. So either way, even though he waited, it's still not enough.


I'm not really understanding what you're saying here. 

Just to make sure we're on the same page I was disagreeing with your suggestion that a man in his mid 20's, who never had a chance with a women, would be better off finding out about sex through porn than nothing at all. I was stating that I disagree because my H took that approach and it was not only unhelpful but very hurtful. 

In light of that I'm not sure what you mean when you say I obviously judged him on his approach, saying it's still not enough, or what you mean by 'either way.' 



mikeydread1982 said:


> And how many men did you have to go through to develop that tolerance and understanding?


Just one- my H. 



mikeydread1982 said:


> And you ever thought that he was emotionally inept before porn?


Of course. I know he was emotionally inept before porn- that's why he had to turn to porn to coddle his insecurities. No insult intended- that's just how I feel about it.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> The thing that bothers me the most about the whole porn debate is.... the non-users will judge it as near emotional death to a marraige ....they can not acknowlege the fact this is simply not true of every marraige.
> 
> I do not feel such wide brushes should be used , it is not true in my own marraige and it makes me want to argue the side of those how enjoy it.
> 
> ...


I agree

People have a tendency to put everyone into neat little boxes based on their experience, never taking into account the fact that others experiences may be completely different.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Well lets see you cop to this, you equate porn with intimacy? How about sex with women - what is that?
> 
> Can you please explain how you manage to have intimacy with a computer monitor and a porn video?
> 
> If you are having intimate relationships with porn actresses, what do you have with your partner?


I have no idea what you`re talking about Catherine but that`s fairly par for the course.

Would you please explain how you got the idea that I equate porn with intimacy?

In fact I believe I said the exact opposite.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

i think saying porn is not bad because it helps 1 marriage out of maybe 100 or 1000, that serial killers arent bad because they are bound to get someone who deserves it, so its worth all the losses.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

no, they are both ridiculous.

both can be right for a few but hurtful to many more.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

I'm just curious what is considered pornography. My wife and I read erotic stories together. We have attended gentlemen's (i.e. strip) clubs together in the past as well. When we sit down to watch porn movies together we often have to stop after a short time because it's usually so silly we start laughing. Kinda ruins the mood.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

This article talks about how ALL men look at porn. A British study had a similar result. So for all those women who equate porn with murder or peadophilia you are essentially condeming every male in the world.

All men watch porn, scientists find - Telegraph


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

No, all the women here seem to feel that we just watch those really gross porns that have like weird fetishes or something way out there. There seem to not know or not want to acknowledge that there is porn with just regular old one on one sex in it.


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> This article talks about how ALL men look at porn. A British study had a similar result. So for all those women who equate porn with murder or peadophilia you are essentially condeming every male in the world.
> 
> All men watch porn, scientists find - Telegraph


The writer of that article is engaging in yellow journilism, at best.

The article never said *all men *look at porn. It said, they could not find any test subjects who had never seen porn.

How hard did they look? Where did they look?


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

mikeydread1982 said:


> *No, all the women here seem to feel* that we just watch those really gross porns that have like weird fetishes or something way out there. There seem to not know or not want to acknowledge that there is porn with just regular old one on one sex in it.


You shouldn't make blanket statements like that. No, ALL the women here do not seem to think that.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

bubbly girl said:


> You shouldn't make blanket statements like that. No, ALL the women here do not seem to think that.


I was thinking the same thing -when I read that - he obviously skipped my posts.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> This article talks about how ALL men look at porn. A British study had a similar result. So for all those women who equate porn with murder or peadophilia you are essentially condeming every male in the world.
> 
> All men watch porn, scientists find - Telegraph


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Really? ALL men? I'm going to take a wild guess and say that blind men don't look at porn & they're still men.

Seriously, though, you can't lump all men or all women into one group. I do agree that MOST men look at porn. Perhaps almost ALL men have looked at porn at one time in their life. 

BTW the murder comment came from a man, not a woman.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

bubbly girl said:


> You shouldn't make blanket statements like that. No, ALL the women here do not seem to think that.





SimplyAmorous said:


> I was thinking the same thing -when I read that - he obviously skipped my posts.



I apologize, I did forget about you two. That was pretty generalized. I give credit where due.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

bubbly girl said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> Really? ALL men? I'm going to take a wild guess and say that blind men don't look at porn & they're still men.
> 
> ...


Ok, for the literal minded folk out there, ALL in this case means the vast majority. Like saying ALL women have breasts and ALL men have testicles. 

Most studies point to at least 80% of men _regularly_ using some form of visual pornography. The point being men who use porn aren't perverts, they are just normal men. Your fathers, brothers, cousins and husbands. Get used to it or cut yourself off from most* men.

*For bubbly girl by most I mean a simple majority.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Mistys dad said:


> The writer of that article is engaging in yellow journilism, at best.


It is the Telegraph, it is a sensationalist rag, but it is based on a real, peer-reviewed study. The BBC published a similar report a few months ago based on a different study which came to the same conclusion.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Whats the point? How many women have NEVER seen some type of porn?


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> It is the Telegraph, it is a sensationalist rag, but it is based on a real, peer-reviewed study. The BBC published a similar report a few months ago based on a different study which came to the same conclusion.


It's still a flawed study. Finding no subjects for the negative test group does not mean they do not exist.

The absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence. (saw that in another post and liked the quote)

If you go into a bar and look for non drinkers, you may have a hard time finding a good sample. But to use that say that every person drinks, is not accurate.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Mistys dad said:


> It's still a flawed study. Finding no subjects for the negative test group does not mean they do not exist.
> 
> *The absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence. (saw that in another post and liked the quote)*If you go into a bar and look for non drinkers, you may have a hard time finding a good sample. But to use that say that every person drinks, is not accurate.



You're welcome :smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Mistys dad said:


> It's still a flawed study. Finding no subjects for the negative test group does not mean they do not exist.
> 
> The absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence. (saw that in another post and liked the quote)
> 
> If you go into a bar and look for non drinkers, you may have a hard time finding a good sample. But to use that say that every person drinks, is not accurate.


They went to a university, not a porn store, so your bar analogy doesn't work.

The point is that there have been many studies (you can dismiss all of them if you like) that have come to the same conclusion. Internet search statistics and bandwidth usage statistics also back up the studies' findings. 

Add to that anecdotal evidence from friends and colleagues and you are faced with an undeniable body of evidence. MOST MEN USE PORN. You can nit-pick this study or that all you like.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> Ok, for the literal minded folk out there, ALL in this case means the vast majority. Like saying ALL women have breasts and ALL men have testicles.
> 
> Most studies point to at least 80% of men _regularly_ using some form of visual pornography. The point being men who use porn aren't perverts, they are just normal men. Your fathers, brothers, cousins and husbands. Get used to it or cut yourself off from most* men.
> 
> *For bubbly girl by most I mean a simple majority.


Well now you basically said what I previously posted. I believe most men look at porn and probably almost all have at least looked at porn at some time in their life.

Relax...I don't think anyone was calling men perverts. (Unless, I missed something in a post)


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

bubbly girl said:


> Well now you basically said what I previously posted. I believe most men look at porn and probably almost all have at least looked at porn at some time in their life.
> 
> Relax...I don't think anyone was calling men perverts. (Unless, I missed something in a post)


I am just messing with you bubbly girl, but yes, men who watch porn have been compared to paedophiles and I have seen many posts where women consider divorce because their husbands' look at porn.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> I am just messing with you bubbly girl, but yes, men who watch porn have been compared to paedophiles and I have seen many posts where women consider divorce because their husbands' look at porn.


Ah, ok. 

I think the subject of porn should be discussed before marriage. If porn is a deal breaker for a woman and her boyfriend is not willing to abstain from it, well then they probably aren't going to be a good match.

I think it was tacoma (forgive me tacoma if it wasn't you), that said he broke up with a girl that flipped out because his roomate had porn magazines. He knew a woman who deplored porn so much wouldn't be a good match for him. I believe that is a very wise attitude. It will certainly avoid major problems down the road in a marriage.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

bubbly girl said:


> Ah, ok.
> 
> I think the subject of porn should be discussed before marriage. If porn is a deal breaker for a woman and her boyfriend is not willing to abstain from it, well then they probably aren't going to be a good match.
> 
> I think it was tacoma (forgive me tacoma if it wasn't you), that said he broke up with a girl that flipped out because his roomate had porn magazines. He knew a woman who deplored porn so much wouldn't be a good match for him. I believe that is a very wise attitude. It will certainly avoid major problems down the road in a marriage.



Yes that was me.


To add to Johnnys point I`ve even recently seen women in this forum equate watching porn to infidelity.

That type of attitude just kills me.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

bubbly girl said:


> Ah, ok.
> 
> I think the subject of porn should be discussed before marriage. If porn is a deal breaker for a woman and her boyfriend is not willing to abstain from it, well then they probably aren't going to be a good match.
> 
> I think it was tacoma (forgive me tacoma if it wasn't you), that said he broke up with a girl that flipped out because his roomate had porn magazines. He knew a woman who deplored porn so much wouldn't be a good match for him. I believe that is a very wise attitude. It will certainly avoid major problems down the road in a marriage.


You hit the nail right on the head. Refreshing to see such a level-headed post in this thread after having been wished to the cornfield for ten days.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Noel1987 (Jan 2, 2012)

Riverside MFT said:


> There are a lot of different opinions on pornography and I wanted to see the differences between men and women from this forum. I personally think that porn can be very damaging to a marriage. What are your thoughts?


Sorry iam late but in what kinda situation you are saying that i mean some people take it in positive way and try to get experiences when married..,..


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> I am just messing with you bubbly girl, but yes, men who watch porn have been compared to paedophiles and I have seen many posts where women consider divorce because their husbands' look at porn.


Before I married my husband, I knew he looked at porn. I assumed most men looked and had no problem with it. I used to buy him subscriptions to Hustler for Christmas (this was before internet). We've been married 15 yrs and fairly recently we've had a problem with him rarely having sex with me, yet jumping on porn every time I was at work.

Neglecting your wife is a problem. I've had many helpful suggestions by other posters of reasons I may have contributed to him not wanting sex. On this thread I had plenty of men soley blame me. Umm...no. I take responsibility for myself, but it doesn't make it ok for my husband to neglect me sexually and replace me with porn. He also needs to take responsibility for his actions. I'm sure none of the men laying all the blame on me would tell another man, whose wife wasn't giving him sex, that it was all his fault.

If a man is just using porn as a filler in between real sex with his wife, then there's no problem. 

If I was to divorce my husband, it would be because he chose porn over me and denied me a sex life, not because I think he's some sort of pervert for looking at porn. But I love so much about him and want to work things out. I'm working on me and he's giving me more attention and sex!:smthumbup:


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

bubbly girl said:


> Before I married my husband, I knew he looked at porn. I assumed most men looked and had no problem with it. I used to buy him subscriptions to Hustler for Christmas (this was before internet). We've been married 15 yrs and fairly recently we've had a problem with him rarely having sex with me, yet jumping on porn every time I was at work.
> 
> Neglecting your wife is a problem. I've had many helpful suggestions by other posters of reasons I may have contributed to him not wanting sex. On this thread I had plenty of men soley blame me. Umm...no. I take responsibility for myself, but it doesn't make it ok for my husband to neglect me sexually and replace me with porn. He also needs to take responsibility for his actions. I'm sure none of the men laying all the blame on me would tell another man, whose wife wasn't giving him sex, that it was all his fault.
> 
> ...


Of course neglecting your wife is not acceptable. I firmly believe that a decent sex life is both partners' right and if you can't deliver, for whatever reason, you have a duty to sort it out. The onus is on him.

Why not ask him to refrain from masturbating for a while, say a month? This can have an envigorating effect on your sex life. 

Did he have trouble finishing? Other performance issues? This could be a reason why he seems to prefer porn at the moment.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I also feel the issue of Porn should be talked about when dating, how very very important this is, get it out on the table so no hiding is going to be happening...how each partner feels about the issue needs to be talked about OPENLY. ...... 

I KNEW my then BF/now husband had a collection of PLayboys -he used to pick them up at the Flea Market in mass amounts, I think he had like 300 of them, I seen his stash. 

Even his Mom knew he got it in the mail for a time, she never said anything to him. Now, there is no man who would have treated me better or more respectful than my husband. Every other guy who ever liked me never hung around cause I wouldn't "put out". 

Honestly, I never really thought that was such a horrible thing, even though I was of the "good girl" mindset & really didn't understand the allure . I can't remember this knowledge bothering me at all ! It was all in how he personally treated me -that is all I focused on. It would have never been a deal breaker for me- even then in my "good girl" days, I guess I had some leniency in "boys will be boys"- even if I didn't get it . 

Yrs later, it was the Churchs pounding purity teachings , our Pastor was always harping on porn leading to hell ... it was their judgement that played with my mind - made me feel like he was a bad man for looking. Just never the case.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> Of course neglecting your wife is not acceptable. I firmly believe that a decent sex life is both partners' right and if you can't deliver, for whatever reason, you have a duty to sort it out. The onus is on him.
> 
> Why not ask him to refrain from masturbating for a while, say a month? This can have an envigorating effect on your sex life.
> 
> Did he have trouble finishing? Other performance issues? This could be a reason why he seems to prefer porn at the moment.


Thank you for understanding. Having sex and being desired by your spouse is very important to many women too, not just men.

He has promised to lay off the porn. So far everything is going well! The first week, I was actually a bit sore, but I wasn't about to complain.

No trouble finishing. He became a very selfish lover though. Sex consisted of him waking me up on Saturday morning by pulling down my underwear and sticking it in. Since our talk he's being a much more considerate lover. Sex is very enjoyable for me too now.

I had been losing some weight I had gained before I discovered our problem so I just continued eating healthy and going to the gym and have continued to lose the extra weight. I know weight gain can affect a man's desire too. I'm still not fat, I'm still an attractive girl and take good care of my appearance and hygiene. That's what I meant by I took responsibility for working on me. Like you said, my husband has a duty to sort out his problems too. Now if things stay the way we currently are, I'll be a very happy wife.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I also feel the issue of Porn should be talked about when dating, how very very important this is, get it out on the table so no hiding is going to be happening...how each partner feels about the issue needs to be talked about OPENLY. ......
> 
> I KNEW my then BF/now husband had a collection of PLayboys -he used to pick them up at the Flea Market in mass amounts, I think he had like 300 of them, I seen his stash.
> 
> ...


Yes. Couples make sure their religious views are compatible, discuss having children before marriage, etc. Why not discuss the porn issue?


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## Lordhavok (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm addicted to pornography and sex. I don't masturbate unless the wife is watching, I dont have to look at porn to be aroused. Matter of fact, porn don't arouse me much anymore, its more about the collection. I meet my wifes sexual needs. I dont think porn is a problem unless the other partner is being ignored. She gets pissed when she finds it on my phone. I have to keep it hidden from her.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Lordhavok said:


> I'm addicted to pornography and sex. I don't masturbate unless the wife is watching, I dont have to look at porn to be aroused. Matter of fact, porn don't arouse me much anymore, its more about the collection. I meet my wifes sexual needs. I dont think porn is a problem unless the other partner is being ignored. She gets pissed when she finds it on my phone. I have to keep it hidden from her.


Get yourself some help and quit hiding things from your wife! What is WRONG with you?


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

porn is inappropriate and its wrong its not good for relationships unless you are corrupted and sick yourself. 

I am sick i guess cause i watch porn from time to time its not great but yeah its hard to kick out. Thankfully i never had a woman who loved or obsessed over porn i have met those girls and relationships never go well with them.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

square1;573349[B said:


> _]I'm not against everyone using porn. I'm stating for my own marriage now. If you still have a good relationship with your spouse and neither is being neglected, communication is good etc then I see no problem._[/B]
> 
> Like I said in another thread about porn when my husband started *acting a little weird and distant I started digging cause i really thought he was having an affair. That's when i discovered the massive amount of porn and started noticing his habit/timing. My first thought was crap now I'm gunna be one of those wives. I had no problem with porn prior to this he used it on and off through out our relationship. But when it crossed over from occasional use to almost obsessive and he used it to cope with anything he was dealing with essentially shutting me out of our relationship then I put my foot down.*


*
*

You hit it right on the head for me, I could have written it myself..But putting my foot down has done nothing. It still continues.


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## LemonLime (Mar 20, 2012)

If it is hidden or excessive, it is a problem. As a couple, no problem.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

While this poll is not scientific by any means, the discrepancies between what men and women think about this topic is interesting to me. An overwhelming number of men are okay with pornography use, while it is pretty even with women who think porn is appropriate or not.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

We just had a fight about this today. 

If I go to the store, he watches it. It pisses me off because why jerk off to some staged porno when you can have flesh 
and blood standing in front of you in about 8 more minutes????

If I am at work for 8 hours a day, fine..I get it. 

But guys...if you are horny all the sudden and your wife is nearby...please please go jump her. She will appreciate the spontinaity of it and she will actually FEEL wanted by you. 

Porn is for single people who have no other immediate outlet..or the spouses who are being deprived of sex by their spouses.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

lisab0105 said:


> But guys...if you are horny all the sudden and your wife is nearby...please please go jump her. She will appreciate the spontinaity of it and she will actually FEEL wanted by you.


If there's one thing this forum has taught me, is that's just not necessarily the case. 

For some women, yes. For some women, no. 
For some women, "jump her" means "make a candelit meal." Etc. etc. etc. 

[Also goes for some men, of course.]

As has mentioned elsewhere, I wonder what the coincidence of LD spouses and spouses who aren't okay with porn use are. 

That is, are LD spouses more likely to disapprove of their partners using porn than HD spouses?


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## Mom_In-Love (Mar 18, 2012)

Porn is not bad. 

Any addiction or hidden thing is bad. 

Personally me and my husband like porn, hentai and ecchi anime. Its awesome to be a part of these things when we so choose. 

Whatever works for each relationship is perfectly fine.

Lighten up, there's nothing else to this stuff.


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

As long as women are the sexual gatekeepers in this world men will turn to porn and masturbation when the gate is locked or they can no longer stand to risk rejection after jumping through the hoops it takes to open it, or they can't afford to pay the price. Porn is a godsend for sexually lonely men.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I watched less then 5 minutes of a DVD I received as a free gift. My husband was bothered by me watching it. It's not my thing and I immediately threw it away.

I was blown away that he was bothered by it. I told the same day day and I barely saw anything. It was poorly taped and I was totally disgusted by seeing another man's manhood. Bleh!

I was completely up front and honest. I was surprised my husband was bothered by me watching it. I watched it alone due to the kids being at school and being down right curious. I've never seen porn before and I don't plan on watching it in the future. 

My husband for some reason does not watch porn or look at other naked women. Hey, fine by me!


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