# "I'm just not into you anymore." Could you handle that truth?



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

To say a lot has been written about the LD/HD dilemma would be the understatement of the millenia. 

However, at the root of it, from what I can tell, is a lot of people simply not admitting that they just aren't sexually attracted to their spouse anymore, if ever they were in the first place. It's amazing how many LD spouses seem to recover when divorced and dating, remarried, or having an affair with somebody they truly crave sexually. 

People who want to have sex have sex. Period. Even with children, jobs, just the overall madness of busy lives, they will find a way if it's mutually important to both of them, if they genuinely remain attracted to the other person.

People who inherently want sex with you will not chronically put you off for dishes, deadlines, or even their kids. Momentarily, sure, but after awhile they will be driven to seek you out because they want sex not just for your sake, but their own. People who don't have sex because of "XYZ" excuse, who chronically deny you, are often lying. 

So here's the deal, if you're in a sexless or near sex starved marriage, would you rather your "LD" partner finally admit that they just aren't into you anymore? As hurtful as that sounds do you think it would be more of a relief, or would it present even more problems?


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

i would much rather them tell me they're not into me anymore than string me along. then I could go from there.


----------



## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

As someone who is the HD in a sexless marriage I agree with your assesment of the dynamics.

I have always believed in the old saying "where there is a will there is a way".

I would prefer my wife to admit that this is the case to me. It would be so much easier to decide to move on or not.


----------



## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

jaquen said:


> So here's the deal, if you're in a sexless or near sex starved marriage, would you rather your "LD" partner finally admit that they just aren't into you anymore? As hurtful as that sounds do you think it would be more of a relief, or would it present even more problems?


As my wife put it a few years ago. "The thought of you touching me like that, repulses me!" (Happy Father's Day Amp!)

That was a sobering moment. Pretty much clued me in as to just how far out the door she was. Today we are still together, having sex regularly and rejection is rare. Even under the worst circumstances, recovery is possible.


----------



## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

yep, would allow me to move on without cheating. 

To me, that would show she didn't want to live by her word (our vows) and that would be enough for me to move on.


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

jaquen said:


> So here's the deal, if you're in a sexless or near sex starved marriage, would you rather your "LD" partner finally admit that they just aren't into you anymore? As hurtful as that sounds do you think it would be more of a relief, or would it present even more problems?


I'm not sure if there is even a need for anyone to admit anything.

Actions speak louder than words. Lack of actions would tell me EVERYTHING I need to know.

And then there is the whole "does it even matter"

Who cares if they are no longer attracted. They don't want you sexually or whatever reason.

Why they don't want to be intimate doesn't really matter. Bottom line is, it's time to move on.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

That explanation might cover a lot of the folks here who have seen a drop in sex from an earlier era in their relationship, but it misses the group who are with someone who never had any significant sexuality to begin with. 

Those who differences are innate will always have a disconnect that no amount of repartnering will cure.


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Cletus said:


> but it misses the group who are with someone who never had any significant sexuality to begin with. Those who differences are innate will always have a disconnect that no amount of repartnering will cure.


I'm beginning to believe those people are truly rare.

I think a lot of "low drive" people, who claim their inherent sexuality is nearly non-existent, would find themselves surprisingly revved up if their fantasy person started coming on to them. I think a ton of people get away with claiming "this is just how I am", when the deep root of the issue is "this is just how I am...with you", or even for some "this is how I am with the people I can attract".

I do think a lot of people who had issues from the beginning also had a lack of attraction from the beginning. I think lots of people, especially women, marry spouses who they never truly had that much sexual chemistry with, but decided that getting married to somebody who was compatible in other areas was just more important. Sexual attraction often gets shuffled off to the "shallow" category and people get married to folks thinking that it's perfectly OK that they aren't really all that ravenous for them sexually.


----------



## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

I would appreciate if my wife finally said this. Deep down, I know it's true, but without verbal confirmation I think people tend to linger on the what if.. or maybe she does love me..or maybe shes just going through something..etc..

Its like a bandaid ripping from skin. Ouch for a bit, but the healing process would begin immediately.


----------



## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

jaquen said:


> I'm beginning to believe those people are truly rare.
> 
> I think a lot of "low drive" people, who claim their inherent sexuality is nearly non-existent, would find themselves surprisingly revved up if their fantasy person started coming on to them. I think a ton of people get away with claiming "this is just how I am", when the deep root of the issue is "this is just how I am...with you", or even for some "this is how I am with the people I can attract".
> 
> I do think a lot of people who had issues from the beginning also had a lack of attraction from the beginning. I think lots of people, especially women, marry spouses who they never truly had that much sexual chemistry with, but decided that getting married to somebody who was compatible in other areas was just more important. Sexual attraction often gets shuffled off to the "shallow" category and people get married to folks thinking that it's perfectly OK that they aren't really all that ravenous for them sexually.


100% true. Very few are truly LD. This is why there are so many books written about "manning up" or gaining her attraction etc. If someone was truly LD, there would be no need to try xyz actions to win your spouse back. 

Just like many people criticize those who stay in a marriage unhappy becaus of kids, I would say leading your spouse to believe you are just "LD" is super dishonest. Unless you happen to be in that 0.5% who REALLY REALLY is LD (excluding disabilities obviouslly).


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

What difference does it make? As I've often said "It's not what you DO, it's who you ARE". I know she hates me, the reason and the inner child don't matter.


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I think a lot of people marry while they are still in the new relationship stage, but after life and time and kids and age and responsibilities and daily farting and nagging kick in, the new car smell wears off and they "fall out of love" and the sex dwindles. I also think a lot of those people are shocked when that happens because they assumed sex would be as great as it was when they were young and in a fresh relationship because they luuuuuv each other so much.

The reality is that you can fall in and out of love with your spouse many times over a lifetime, and you aren't always going to feel desire for your partner. Add relationship problems and resentments on top of that, and sex disappears. 

You have to constantly work at maintaining a connection with each other and focus on each other, but many marriages just coast along or get sidetracked with kids and problems until it's too late and then they realize they've dug a deep hole they can no longer climb out of. At that point, only commitment is keeping them together and maybe only one wants to work on it.

Would it be good if someone were to come out and say they've lost attraction? I suppose so if their partner seems to think that there is a magical solution or would rather believe it's something else, but it seems the lack of attraction is self-evident due to no sex, right?


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

I’ve discussed this in other threads on a random basis, but I’ll put it all here (maybe I’ll copy this into a new thread in General Discussions if it doesn’t get much response here.

Of course, we’ll need to deal with generalizations here. Let’s say 80% of men and 80% of women. There will certainly be exceptions (note the women who post here about their LD husband), but I do think that these are exceptions. 

There is a theory that women want to have sex just as much as men do and for the same reasons; that they are attracted to their mate and because they enjoy sex. Therefore, if the woman isn’t having sex as much as the guy would like, there are two things to be done. 1) Increase her attraction to you (work out, destabilize the relationship, be a “leader”) or 2) Get better at sex. The problem is that women don’t need to increase their attraction to get sex form men and, for the most part, they don’t need to get better at sex. They can get plenty of sex without doing either of these things (although, they will probably get more if they do). I think that this is men projecting their feelings on to women. It doesn’t hurt to be more attractive or improve your performance, but that isn’t the key. 

My theory is that men are HD (they want sex all the time with almost any woman who meets certain minimum requirements). Women have responsive desire. They like sex plenty when the relationship is new and exciting, during an affair and when they are in a relationship they value that is threatened. However, once these special circumstances wear off, they are unlikely to spontaneously want sex. When it happens, they enjoy it well enough. It just isn’t something that they are going to go out of their way for. Sex is the number 1 priority for men, it’s considerably further down the list for women. So, when a relationship gets past the initial excitement phase, it’s becomes a lower priority for women. And women, projecting their feelings onto men, think that it’s also now a lower priority for men. They look at men that still expect the same amount of sex as before and think “what’s wrong with him? Having sex 4-5 times a week is only something that happens in the early days”. They got over wanting it all the time, they figure the man will feel the same way.

I think the best comparison is going to the gym. Most people have responsive desire as far as going to the gym. Hardly anyone just can’t wait to go work out. No one wants to go to the gym (initially). You know it will feel good if you do, but it’s a pain in the a$$. It’s easy to put it off until another day. Can’t go today because I’m tired. Too much work to do. My stomach hurts, I’ve got a headache. The kids need x. But, if you do go, you’ll enjoy it. You’ll feel good about yourself. The more you go, the more you’ll enjoy it. Eventually, if you keep going to the gym, it’ll become a priority. You’ll make time for it. 

If you have a good marriage, love each other and genuinely care about each other’s happiness, this shouldn’t be a problem. Your wife will have sex with you most of the time that you initiate. She’ll initiate herself occasionally. 

If you have a good marriage, love each other and genuinely care about each other’s happiness but you rarely have sex and get turned down regularly when you initiate, then at least one of these things is not true. There is a possibility that she just doesn’t understand how much this means to her husband and will come around if it’s explained (and it’s absolutely unbelievable how many husbands don’t tell their wives that they are unhappy about this). Don’t expect her to start wanting sex all the time just like you do. However, the more sex you have, the more she’ll think about it and, usually, the more she’ll want it.

If you talked about this and your wife didn’t respond, put the marriage at risk. And don’t whine! This will underscore just how important this is to you. If she still doesn’t respond, then why would you want to be married to a selfish person that couldn’t bother to inconvenience herself to make you happy?


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

norajane said:


> I think a lot of people marry while they are still in the new relationship stage, but after life and time and kids and age and responsibilities and daily farting and nagging kick in, the new car smell wears off and they "fall out of love" and the sex dwindles. I also think a lot of those people are shocked when that happens because they assumed sex would be as great as it was when they were young and in a fresh relationship because they luuuuuv each other so much.


True, but this happens mostly to women. The men keep wanting sex.



norajane said:


> The reality is that you can fall in and out of love with your spouse many times over a lifetime, and you aren't always going to feel desire for your partner. Add relationship problems and resentments on top of that, and sex disappears.


I don't know that I'd call it falling in and out of love so much as falling in and out of sexual attraction.



norajane said:


> Would it be good if someone were to come out and say they've lost attraction? I suppose so if their partner seems to think that there is a magical solution or would rather believe it's something else, but it seems the lack of attraction is self-evident due to no sex, right?


But, if there's still love (or some significant portion of it) it can be improved. I'd hate to see it happen that every time the sex slows down, we have to dump our relationship and start all over with someone new!


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> But, if there's still love (or some significant portion of it) it can be improved. I'd hate to see it happen that every time the sex slows down, we have to dump our relationship and start all over with someone new!


Yes, it can be improved. But first, BOTH people have to believe it can be improved. And then they have to work at it, one way or another. And when someone has lost desire or attraction, they don't necessarily believe that it can be improved. 

The expectation that sex will always be great as long as you love each other (without having to constantly maintain the connection and chemistry) is counter-productive to long term commitment. It's NOT always going to be great if you take it for granted. So it shocks people when it starts to be less great. And then all kinds of other problems are layered on top, and/or already exist as an iceberg beneath the obvious surface problem (lack of sex).


----------



## seahorse (Apr 10, 2010)

I married very young and too inexperienced. I knew there were problems early on. Multiple times during our dating life I attempted full disclosure about the lack of desire I felt for her and how I thought we could work around it, but all attempts were met with such vitriol and deep-seated resentment that I began to pursue a path of non-confrontation in order to spare her feelings. This is the largest and defining mistake of my life, carrying consequences all the way to the present. Surprisingly, I married anyway in order to make her happy, because I felt it was the "the right thing", and primarily because I still harbored a false belief system which was influencing how I viewed goals for marriage. I was self-deprecating but didn't realize it. With no mentors or trusted male role models in which to confide, I reached the decision which seemed right.

With this experience behind me, I feel it's always better to say what you know than to conceal unaddressed realities which prevent true intimacy. As another poster commented, even very bad situations can be redeemable. In my case intentions were well and good, yet the decision to pursue non-confrontation was still the wrong one.

I believe wisdom dictates that truth can liberate you, or at least it can give you the closure needed if you must move on.


Good luck
-seahorse


----------



## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

I would ALWAYS prefer to hear a painful truth over even a well intended lie because, when the truth is finally discovered it's as painful as it would have been anyway PLUS it's made worse by the fact that it was kept from you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the2ofus (Jan 28, 2014)

What about the cases of wonky hormones?


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

jaquen said:


> I'm beginning to believe those people are truly rare.
> 
> I think a lot of "low drive" people, who claim their inherent sexuality is nearly non-existent, would find themselves surprisingly revved up if their fantasy person started coming on to them. I think a ton of people get away with claiming "this is just how I am", when the deep root of the issue is "this is just how I am...with you", or even for some "this is how I am with the people I can attract".
> 
> I do think a lot of people who had issues from the beginning also had a lack of attraction from the beginning. I think lots of people, especially women, marry spouses who they never truly had that much sexual chemistry with, but decided that getting married to somebody who was compatible in other areas was just more important. Sexual attraction often gets shuffled off to the "shallow" category and people get married to folks thinking that it's perfectly OK that they aren't really all that ravenous for them sexually.


It isn't rare. I've known several truly LD people who remained that way throughout their lives, both men and women.

What happens to them is that early in relationships, people tend to have sex more. This is true for everyone. But for those who are truly LD, they tend to rationalize this as "well, this is fun but things will die down with time". They typically don't realize (if their spouse is HD) that their spouse thinks it will stay like this. The LD is having more sex than they would naturally desire, but they understand it is only due to the newness. They don't expect to keep it up. They are usually surprised when the HD spouse DOES expect it to keep up.

When two LD's are married, these issues don't come up. They also have more sex early in a relationship, and then it DOES die down with time, yet both spouses are fine with this.

In the case of a truly LD person who meets their fantasy person or who starts having an affair and are suddenly hot to trot, this won't last either. Just because they have a burst of sexual arousal and activity with the new person does not mean they are forever changed. After a year or two, they will return to their normal drive level.

BUT....

There ARE plenty of cases (and some I've seen here) where the LD spouse really just isn't that into their spouse. I agree with that.

I'm saying BOTH of these scenarios occur regularly. There are plenty of truly LD people who will always be LD. Same way that a truly HD person will always be HD. Though an HD person can also not be into their spouse and refuse sex with them...it is just that they will still know they want sex, just not with their spouse.


----------



## Justus3 (Oct 18, 2014)

I would rather know the truth. Then I could make better decisions from there.


----------



## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

Of course I could handle this truth. Most rational people can handle any truth. The problem is, the way they handle it might not be to the liking of the one who hides the truth.

Everybody has their pet peeves. For me, it is the commonly expressed opinion on TAM that dishonesty is a valid policy because "the truth would hurt him" or "he has no right to know" or "men are too insecure to handle the truth."

To me, all of these rationalizations are harmful forms of manipulation. I want no part of a marriage where I am being manipulated.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

jaquen said:


> I'm beginning to believe those people are truly rare.


Why?

Gut feelings don't count.


----------



## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

I'd feel more relieved knowing the truth. Then it wouldn't bother me at all being an a$$ to her.


----------



## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> It isn't rare. I've known several truly LD people who remained that way throughout their lives, both men and women.
> 
> What happens to them is that early in relationships, people tend to have sex more. This is true for everyone. But for those who are truly LD, they tend to rationalize this as "well, this is fun but things will die down with time". They typically don't realize (if their spouse is HD) that their spouse thinks it will stay like this. The LD is having more sex than they would naturally desire, but they understand it is only due to the newness. They don't expect to keep it up. They are usually surprised when the HD spouse DOES expect it to keep up.
> 
> ...


Most people will just never be in the position to experience this since most people by definition aren't on the extreme ends of the libido scale AND go through LTR's with partners on both ends of the scale. It's hard to wrap your head around it even if you do go through it. Heck, just distinguishing the difference between "low drive" and "lost drive" in a partner is a challenge until you look hard for it. Took me almost 17 years to grasp it.


----------



## cuchulain36 (Jul 8, 2014)

Honesty would be much better, let everyone move on with their life. Women are much more prone to the "I love you but I'm not IN love with you" speech... But it's typically after many years of denying sex to her husband with BS excuses and meeting a new man. It's all very tragic...


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

4x4 said:


> Most people will just never be in the position to experience this since most people by definition aren't on the extreme ends of the libido scale AND go through LTR's with partners on both ends of the scale.


I'm not so sure. IRL it seems that most husbands aren't getting nearly as much sex as they would like (not that most of them deserve it). I think it's common. Most husbands either whine (and make their wife respect them even less) or give up. This seems to be the default setting for marriages. I rarely see a happy couple at the grocery store; laughing, touching each other and obviously in love. I look for this and, when I see it, I smile. Doesn't happen very often.


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

jaquen said:


> People who inherently want sex with you will not chronically put you off for dishes, deadlines, or even their kids. Momentarily, sure, but after awhile they will be driven to seek you out because they want sex not just for your sake, but their own. People who don't have sex because of "XYZ" excuse, who chronically deny you, are often lying.


No, they are not neccesary lying. they themselves might be in denial or not understanding the issue. One partner starts having resentments about lack of sex, the other about not getting enough attention or unfair divistion of household chores. If not recognized and addressed aearly, it will be downward spiral. 

What's interesting, if you think about it, is that the idea that spoused are supposed to have regular, happy sex life is very recent - maybe last 40-50 years. Before that it was something not talked about, women were supposed to just 'endure" it as part of their wife's duties. Not many people went throught their lifetimes enjoying satysfying sex life. Sometimes I have feeling we are fighting against nature. some of us are simply luckier than others.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

the2ofus said:


> What about the cases of wonky hormones?



Overrated.

If anyone told me I would be cycling 30 miles in 90F weather three months after sitting on a bike for the first time after 40 years I would have laughed at them.

Yet I did.

Hormones and low T are convenient excuses in many cases, as is work, kids, stress, etc.

Not in all cases but in a lot of them.


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

cuchulain36 said:


> Honesty would be much better, let everyone move on with their life. Women are much more prone to the "I love you but I'm not IN love with you" speech... But it's typically after many years of denying sex to her husband with BS excuses and meeting a new man. It's all very tragic...


What you call BS excuses usually come from trouble within the marriage. It would hep to listen to your wife, instead of shruggin and saying "just B/S, just her moods". It could improve the sex life.


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> I rarely see a happy couple at the grocery store; laughing, touching each other and obviously in love. I look for this and, when I see it, I smile. Doesn't happen very often.



And when i see couple like this, I automatically assume that most likely this is new relationship for them. I have a feeling that I am right in around 80-90%.


----------



## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

WandaJ said:


> What you call BS excuses usually come from trouble within the marriage. It would hep to listen to your wife, instead of shruggin and saying "just B/S, just her moods". It could improve the sex life.


very true. what if your spouse wont talk or communicate to your her feelings. Even if you ask how things are going or whats wrong? my wife told our MC she was "just not into it". The MC said that doesnt work in a marriage. You owe it to the person you said your vows with to share more than "just not my thing". 

If your sex life is failing and you think its good ole LD, odds are communication is a big problem in your marriage.


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Why?
> 
> Gut feelings don't count.


Why?

Gut feelings don't count.

See how that works? I think the idea that many people, namely women, are just naturally "low drive" has been challenged ad nauseum. I'm not saying that there aren't truly, genuinely low/no drive people who wouldn't be all that sexully interested in even the sexiest person. I'm saying that I believe it's far rarer than touted and quite a lot has been written to support that notion.

But if you'll produce some evidence of this mass low drive problem, I'll be happy to google hunt for some articles backing up my POV as well.



WandaJ said:


> And when i see couple like this, I automatically assume that most likely this is new relationship for them. I have a feeling that I am right in around 80-90%.


Yeah, a lot of people make that assumption.

Me and my wife are like this and this older woman from church came up to us and said "Oh, I just love seeing you and your wife together. It's such an inspiration. You're newlyweds, of course". We've been married for 6 years and together going on 15.


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

WandaJ said:


> No, they are not neccesary lying. they themselves might be in denial or not understanding the issue.


Oh when I say lying I don't just mean to the other person. Lots of people lie quite well to themselves.




WandaJ said:


> What's interesting, if you think about it, is that the idea that spoused are supposed to have regular, happy sex life is very recent - maybe last 40-50 years. Before that it was something not talked about, women were supposed to just 'endure" it as part of their wife's duties. Not many people went throught their lifetimes enjoying satysfying sex life. Sometimes I have feeling we are fighting against nature. some of us are simply luckier than others.


In centuries past it was largely expected that men would stray (even at times/in places where adultery was frowned upon), with marriage not realistically looked at as the sole conduit for sexual satisfaction, at least for the men. So yes these issues weren't as prevalent when men were getting it from a mistress, random hook ups and/or a prostitute.

Of course, thanks to a historic lack of understanding, and voice, surrounding women's sexuality, the sexual history of women across most societies isn't as well documented. However that doesn't mean women didn't get their needs met too.


----------



## nightmoves8 (Aug 30, 2012)

Tremendous, outstanding, thread.

I think that SO many of us struggle with this conundrum.

At one end are those who say - "it does not really MATTER why or the reasons...IF you are in an unhappy sexless marriage...that i ALL that you need to know"

Others (like myself) - really NEED to know. I think it is due to the fact that we SO want to be sure that we do not leave a woman or spouse we ultimately do love...a family we do cherish...a life we have committed to and built for so long. IF .....they feel the same way - and - are dealing with something that prevents them from having sex or meaningful sexual relationship with us. (hormones, FOO, prior abuse, childhood issues, fear of intimacy,etc..etc..)

NOW - it has also been said - that then that spouse really owes a MEANINGFUL discussion about these issues - AND - needs to truly work at them.
But alas (again like me) so many spouses REFUSE to discuss. And even REFUSE to look within. So...the result is ....status quo.

So - to ALL the ladies who are on this thread...help us.

How can we perhaps know? To all of us who would WANT the truth AND could handle it...but do not GET even the discussion....

HOW might we be able to tell?


----------



## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

No, I couldn't handle it.

I mean, I'd be glad to know the truth. But the marriage would be over.

I have actually asked my husband in the past year, "Are you done with me?" And he always laughs (in an exasperated sort of way) and tells me "No, I'm stressed/tired/older now/I'm not like I was when I was younger".


----------



## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

intheory said:


> I mean, I'd be glad to know the truth. But the marriage would be over.


I think that is the reaction most people with healthy self respect would have. And that's why you will never get an honest answer from a spouse that does not desire you sexually. Telling the truth might break some of the puppet strings they use to control you.


----------



## neglected42 (Aug 11, 2014)

I would now consider myself LD. Was I always? No, for the first few years of our relationship I had a normal sex drive. What takes a women from normal to LD? In my situation, living with an alcoholic husband. The neglect and narcissistic selfishness of an alcoholic has sucked all of the sex drive out of me. People joke and call him my fifth child. Having a parent child relationship with your spouse also sucks the sex drive out of you. Am I no longer into him? Not in the least. Have I told him that? Yes. He still feels I am deciding not to be into him. That my sex drive is a decision. I feel exactly like Amplexor's wife used to. I feel revulsion at his touch. Can I "think" myself out of this like my husband, and so many other men on TAM assume I should be able to. No success so far. Can it be overcome? Amplexor is an example that it can. How does a person become LD? I cannot imagine I would have got to this point if I had a spouse who was a kind, compassionate, supportive partner.

That being said, testosterone levels are clearly linked to sex drive. That is where men have a large advantage over women. I imagine if all those HD men had their testosterone levels reduced to that of a women, they would be shocked at their lack of sex drive. Let's face it, if men are LD the first thing a doctor checks is testosterone levels. 

Having children is another large reducer in women's sex drive. The sheer exhaustion of child care is naturally going to reduce a women's sex drive. Her body is not going to respond to exhaustion with a message telling her what she needs is sex. If her mind and body is exhausted, her brain will naturally reduce her sex drive as the last thing she needs is another child to take care of. For those men whose wives became LD after having children, how much of a partner were you in rearing those children. Was she a working mother? Did you really take on half of the work with those children? Really???

Of course, there is also the option that you have married a selfish person. Lets face it, helping a partner with their needs in this area is neither too time consuming n'or too physical. I guess one has to look at their partner as a whole. If they are a selfish person in general, there is no reason to believe they won't be when it comes to this. Whether they tell you they are not into you or not is irrelevant. They are selfish. They will only do what they want, when they want, and will not take you into consideration.


----------



## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

neglected42 said:


> Am I no longer into him? Not in the least. Have I told him that? Yes. He still feels I am deciding not to be into him.


Well, you are deciding not to be into him, and for very good reasons. Once you identified and shared the problem, your husband is in a position to fix things about himself if he wants to.

Being LD for your spouse is not evil or destructive in itself. Keeping it secret to maintain a marriage that works well for you but not so well for your spouse is wrong.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

Sometimes communication is hard if the person who is LD doesn't quite know what the issues are yet? They may feel content with their spouse even if there are underlying issues.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Don't know???

Very hard to believe that unless they have lived a super sheltered life...


----------



## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

albertamom3 said:


> Sometimes communication is hard if the person who is LD doesn't quite know what the issues are yet? They may feel content with their spouse even if there are underlying issues.


I can imagine how hard it would be to communicate honestly in this kind of circumstance. But when you consider the damage to a marriage and family that sexual incompatibility can create, I still think the LD spouse has an ethical obligation to be honest about their sexual desire *if they are asked*. Failure to do so is toying with the life of another human being (or beings, if children are in the picture.)

Bear in mind that honest communication can be framed in a way that indicates your willingness to try to fix the problem from your end, if that is the case.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

john117 said:


> Don't know???
> 
> Very hard to believe that unless they have lived a super sheltered life...


I think it's pretty easy to believe in a situation where there are no obvious problems with the spouse.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Ok. Maybe because I'm a professional mind reader... I don't buy that for a second. 

We live in a hyper sexualised society - even the freakin' weather person sports a miniskirt and cleavage... People have friends - guys have guy friends, women have BFF's. Stereotypes are there. Everyone knows someone who cheated or was cheated on. So it's not like my wife's BFF's whose leading conversation topic in parties is who has had the latest round of plastic surgery or whose kid is going to medical school or whose BMW is more expensive. THOSE ladies are definitely not very sexual yet they all dress nicely (to impress the other ladies 

People know. They have kids to remind them of the "process". They have teenagers to emulate  If someone is non-self-aware enough to not know that then... 

Just because a lot of people are "nice" enough to not talk about it doesn't mean that they don't know. 

Hope and Change I suppose. We hope they will change.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Why?
> 
> Gut feelings don't count.
> 
> See how that works?


I'm not advancing a position. I'm asking you to justify yours with real data. I'm not even saying you're wrong - but you ought to have more than just a gut feeling to back it up if you want me to agree.

Human sexuality is, like most things, normally distributed. 98% of all partners will have sexual desire within 3 sigma of the norm. That still leaves millions of men and women who are so far out on the tails of the distribution that they will for all intents and purposes appear to be asexual to those of us in the middle.


----------



## lisamaree (Nov 2, 2014)

Yes. As hurtful as it would be I'd love if my husband would just tell me the TRUTH because then I could move on to find someone who did find me sexually attractive and would want to be with me. I already feel unattractive anyways he might as well say it.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

norajane said:


> I suppose so if their partner seems to think that there is a magical solution or would rather believe it's something else, but it seems the lack of attraction is self-evident due to no sex, right?




It took many years of sexual and non-sexual disappointments in our marriage before my wife ever stated she was not attracted to me physically.



I can see why, at this point, physically I don't do it for her, as I am overweight. However, my weight was fairly normal 15 years ago when the sex frequency became an issue.



For several years at first, iirc, she reported physically (arousal and orgasm) didn't work any more for her, even alone, and thought vaginal birth and perhaps breastfeeding had caused a change.



I suppose by now, I have imagined just about every possible cause and she has reported several.



Nothing has seemed self-evident, at least not forever.



What is becoming clearer to me, though, is after 15 years and it only getting worse, is feeling loved by her and connected to her in the ways I so much -- once upon a time --longed for, simply isn't going to happen.



That's the main thing. Trying to figure out the whys eventually becomes a waste of time.


----------



## seahorse (Apr 10, 2010)

Perhaps for many people, but it isn't always about control. 

Early in my marriage my wife essentially threatened me never to "tell" a truth having anything to do with loss of attraction or desire. Stupidly I obeyed her wishes and I played the part of nice guy, hoping to spare her feelings. It was about survival, not control.

-seahorse



Big Dude said:


> I think that is the reaction most people with healthy self respect would have. And that's why you will never get an honest answer from a spouse that does not desire you sexually. Telling the truth might break some of the puppet strings they use to control you.


----------



## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

seahorse said:


> Perhaps for many people, but it isn't always about control.
> 
> Early in my marriage my wife essentially threatened me never to "tell" a truth having anything to do with loss of attraction or desire. Stupidly I obeyed her wishes and I played the part of nice guy, hoping to spare her feelings. It was about survival, not control.


Interesting! I'm not sure what the right move is when your partner willfully chooses to be ignorant about an important thing. And it sounds like in your case you were damned if you did and damned if you didn't.

I can't wrap my head around people who would rather not know things that will affect their lives. I know that such people walk among us. I wonder if, in their minds, the principle of reciprocity leads them to rationalize that since they don't want to know important things it is right to deny similar truths to others.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

What's truly amazing are the number of guys that are cut off before, during, and after their WW's affair, told by their WW they no longer think of them "that way" and still ask for advise on how to get the old lady back.


----------



## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

To answer the subject question: _Re: "I'm just not into you anymore." Could you handle that truth?_

Yes, I could handle that truth. Why? Because I have enough self esteem to realize this statement is more about HER than about ME. This may sound strange, but I would not really even take it personally. Would it be a shock and upset me? Maybe, for a while, but not in the sense of injury as this question postulates.


----------



## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

It took several TAMer's telling me "she just ain't that into you" before it finally sunk in. I did not want to believe it even though all the clues were hitting me over the head for 3 years. 

She is kind of making an effort to change her demeanor but I do not initiate ever because I do not believe her desires are anything other than self serving. 

I wish she would just come out and say it to be honest but we have appearances to keep up you know.


----------



## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

neglected42 said:


> I feel exactly like Amplexor's wife used to. I feel revulsion at his touch. Can I "think" myself out of this like my husband, and so many other men on TAM assume I should be able to. No success so far. Can it be overcome? Amplexor is an example that it can. How does a person become LD? I cannot imagine I would have got to this point if I had a spouse who was a kind, compassionate, supportive partner.


Qualification to my situation. She was in an affair at the time she said it. Solution, kill the affair and mutually work on a broken marriage.


----------



## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

jaquen said:


> I'm beginning to believe those people are truly rare.
> 
> I think a lot of "low drive" people, who claim their inherent sexuality is nearly non-existent, would find themselves surprisingly revved up if their fantasy person started coming on to them. I think a ton of people get away with claiming "this is just how I am", when the deep root of the issue is "this is just how I am...with you", or even for some "this is how I am with the people I can attract".
> 
> I do think a lot of people who had issues from the beginning also had a lack of attraction from the beginning. I think lots of people, especially women, marry spouses who they never truly had that much sexual chemistry with, but decided that getting married to somebody who was compatible in other areas was just more important. Sexual attraction often gets shuffled off to the "shallow" category and people get married to folks thinking that it's perfectly OK that they aren't really all that ravenous for them sexually.


This explains my wife and I. Our relationship was never all that sexual... I was somewhat OK with that. It's a long story as to why...

Now, after several years of increasing sex from 2 times a month for over 17 or so years, to about 9 times a month for about a 4 year stretch, my wife admitted she was never sexually attracted to me...

She was a virgin at 25 when we met.. Her sexuality never grew like I thought it would...we were compatible in other areas. Sex is something that never crosses her mind...

Her telling me she doesn't love me romantically was a way to get me to stop initiating sex... It worked....She will have sex if I want, she just let's me know it is mostly for my benefit. 

She doesn't want to divorce and givef me total freedom.....


----------



## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Big Dude said:


> I think that is the reaction most people with healthy self respect would have. And that's why you will never get an honest answer from a spouse that does not desire you sexually. Telling the truth might break some of the puppet strings they use to control you.


Yes yes yes

It was such a relief when my wife admitted she wasn't in love with me or sexually attracted to me.... No I no longer have to jump through hoops for sex...


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Trickster said:


> This explains my wife and I. Our relationship was never all that sexual... I was somewhat OK with that. It's a long story as to why...
> 
> Now, after several years of increasing sex from 2 times a month for over 17 or so years, to about 9 times a month for about a 4 year stretch, my wife admitted she was never sexually attracted to me...
> 
> She was a virgin at 25 when we met.. Her sexuality never grew like I thought it would...we were compatible in other areas. Sex is something that never crosses her mind...


But would her sexuality have blossomed with any other man? Who knows - that's a double blind experiment that you can't run. But if sex never crosses her mind, that says way more about her than it does about her feelings for you. People who are perfectly happy to be in a sexless relationship are going to revert to the mean with another partner too, after a while.


----------



## 1812overture (Nov 25, 2013)

BostonBruins32 said:


> I would appreciate if my wife finally said this. Deep down, I know it's true, but without verbal confirmation I think people tend to linger on the what if.. or maybe she does love me..or maybe shes just going through something..etc..


I agree. And it's not just what if? for me. There's spoken and suggested statements that she wants me, but. . . 

the but can be followed with a whole host of things -- life, me not holding up my end of some supposed bargain, etc., etc.

So, I'll say my wife gives me hope -- and I think she's hot. It's easy to imagine her continuing to be the only one until I die. But, slowly and surely, every day that goes by, is an inch closer to fully acknowledging this is the case. If/when I can fully accept it (and she may have to say it for me to accept it), then it's an easy decision between remain in a sexless marriage and see my kids everyday, or see them less frequently and start prowling for women. And hope that after enough sex, I can look for and find a partner to love. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/m...all&adxnnlx=1415034498-ogBskBp2TnMOFxo+cbSoRA

This article is 18 months old, but I linked to it in BB's thread. Science seems to say this happens. I think I've also read studies of primates where the desire in the female waned, and revived when a new male came upon the scene.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

RClawson said:


> It took several TAMer's telling me "she just ain't that into you" before it finally sunk in. I did not want to believe it even though all the clues were hitting me over the head for 3 years.
> 
> She is kind of making an effort to change her demeanor but I do not initiate ever because I do not believe her desires are anything other than self serving.
> 
> I wish she would just come out and say it to be honest but we have appearances to keep up you know.


She doesn't have to be that "in" you you, but could be a generous person who is going to make sure you get what you need. Sounds like she doesn't have that in her.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

1812overture said:


> I agree. And it's not just what if? for me. There's spoken and suggested statements that she wants me, but. . .
> 
> the but can be followed with a whole host of things -- life, me not holding up my end of some supposed bargain, etc., etc.
> 
> ...


Alot of time when you have that outside attention, you may be having sex with the new FWB, lover or whatever... She may very well want to have sex with you.

I was shut out over two years in my previous marriage, no love, no affection, no sex. So I finally got a girlfriend.

It took 24 hours after our conjugation for my mind to have a complete phase shift in how I saw the world.

Ex wanted to bang me that night, after she witnessed the "sheen" and swagger of me being dipped in sex. I didn't give it to her, because by that time I was done and insulted she waited till the very last second.

What if she's one of those strange people you have to "cheat on" a little bit for them to be good to you? Could you do it if you had to?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Trickster said:


> Yes yes yes
> 
> It was such a relief when my wife admitted she wasn't in love with me or sexually attracted to me.... No I no longer have to jump through hoops for sex...


I don't get it.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Cletus said:


> People who are perfectly happy to be in a sexless relationship are going to revert to the mean with another partner too, after a while.


The one perfectly happy in a sexless marriage are usually the one putting less into the relationship, (resources, work, time, emotion) while getting the most out of it. All the while sucking the life and joy out of their partner.


----------



## nightmoves8 (Aug 30, 2012)

Interesting Phoenix.

Why do you think that is as well?

(been there ...AM there)


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> The one perfectly happy in a sexless marriage are usually the one putting less into the relationship, (resources, work, time, emotion) while getting the most out of it. All the while sucking the life and joy out of their partner.


Normally we are finding this to be true. I call them "free riders".

They are not really trying to give anything or more than they have to to maintain the status quo.

A LD can be a selfless one, and even though sex might not be their thing, can perform pretty well and give their partner a lot of pleasure, even though it's no big deal to themselves.

Those who won't don't see the need, mostly because they don't gain anything out of it.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> The one perfectly happy in a sexless marriage are usually the one putting less into the relationship, (resources, work, time, emotion) while getting the most out of it. All the while sucking the life and joy out of their partner.



Bingo...


----------



## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Cletus said:


> But would her sexuality have blossomed with any other man? Who knows - that's a double blind experiment that you can't run. But if sex never crosses her mind, that says way more about her than it does about her feelings for you. People who are perfectly happy to be in a sexless relationship are going to revert to the mean with another partner too, after a while.


She was a VIRGIN at 25. She went to college for 4 years. She lived on campus. Went bar hopping. She never let a man get close enough...ooooorrrrr...most normal men never stuck around when they realized sex wasn't gonna happen.


----------



## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> I don't get it.





Trickster said:


> It was such a relief when my wife admitted she wasn't in love with me or sexually attracted to me.... No I no longer have to jump through hoops for sex...


I look back on all the things I did to "earn" sex. The cooking, laundry, vacuuming, dishes....I read over a dozen books on marriage and how to improve intimacy and nothing helped because there was no romantic love. I have detached now. Sex with my wife is no longer my goal. I have the freedom to develope relationships with other women and still be Dad to my daughter and be a daily part of her life. My wife honestly doesn't care. It hurt for a couple months but I no longer feel like a victim



I initially set my sites too high in regards to women. The opportunities will come. Its just not in the budget to pamper then...


----------



## KingofIstatements (Jul 30, 2011)

seahorse said:


> ... because I felt it was the "the right thing", and primarily because I still harbored a false belief system which was influencing how I viewed goals for marriage...


And this- is a very powerful, daunting realization I've recently been struggling with. To understand too late in life that most of the 'positive' traits I was raised to uphold, and promised by those I trusted would be beneficial in life are actually libido-squelching liabilities for a man in relationships or marriage. Who is truly rewarded, celebrated by our society now, the good father and husband, or the rogue? 

It'd certainly be traumatic for awhile, but I also would rather have my wife's honesty than the perpetuation of our current situation. It'd be great to believe, as she's often stated, that doing dishes or anything to make her life easier is 'hawt...' 

But unless it's like the kinda thing in primary school where your class fills a bucket of good-behaviour tokens and is then rewarded with frozen square pizzas from the cafeteria- no, I'm actually not going to buy that anymore. Who knows, those lines probably would've kept working in another time, before men like me had the ability to see within seconds what 'hawt' actually looks/behaves like.

Every possible sense in my awareness and understanding of her now would indicate my wife is exactly like the kind of person Treyvion describes, someone 'you have to "cheat on" a little bit for them to be good to you.' My naive younger self wouldn't have believed that dynamic to make any sense biologically, but I wish now I'd been warned well to look out for it.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Normally we are finding this to be true. I call them "free riders".
> 
> 
> 
> ...




A line from a Meatloaf song comes to mind:



"I would do anything for love, but I won't do that."





It feels like it fits both sides of that situation. It not a tune I have wanted to sing along with, but I'm getting closer to walking away humming it.


ETA: In my case, the problem is not an unwillingness to be intimate though desire is absent. It is track record of unwillingness and uncooperativeness to address the underlying personal and relationship issues blocking the desire.

There is a big difference between those who are relatively LD but still feeling love for their partner and feeling loved too, and those who have essentially quit their side of the relationship.


----------



## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

jaquen said:


> To say a lot has been written about the LD/HD dilemma would be the understatement of the millenia.
> 
> However, at the root of it, from what I can tell, is a lot of people simply not admitting that they just aren't sexually attracted to their spouse anymore, if ever they were in the first place. It's amazing how many LD spouses seem to recover when divorced and dating, remarried, or having an affair with somebody they truly crave sexually.
> 
> ...


Yes. That would be the closure more people SHOULD need to move on with their life. Some people fear closure, but it's a lot easier to move on when you have it.

I know I'd rather hear "I am just not into you" than being cheated on or left in limbo for years with a sexless marriage.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Trickster said:


> I look back on all the things I did to "earn" sex. The cooking, laundry, vacuuming, dishes....I read over a dozen books on marriage and how to improve intimacy and nothing helped because there was no romantic love. I have detached now. Sex with my wife is no longer my goal. I have the freedom to develope relationships with other women and still be Dad to my daughter and be a daily part of her life. My wife honestly doesn't care. It hurt for a couple months but I no longer feel like a victim
> 
> 
> 
> I initially set my sites too high in regards to women. The opportunities will come. Its just not in the budget to pamper then...


You will get alot better. You were putting them undeservedly on a pedastal, when like you, they put on their pants two legs at a time, they poop, they urinate, and they have times of weakness.

Your opportunities will come.


----------



## coupdegrace (Oct 15, 2012)

jaquen said:


> So here's the deal, if you're in a sexless or near sex starved marriage, would you rather your "LD" partner finally admit that they just aren't into you anymore? As hurtful as that sounds do you think it would be more of a relief, or would it present even more problems?


First, I would have to ask how our relationship got to that point. If I woke up one day, and my wife told me something like that, I'd be a bit perplexed on how things went so wrong, so fast. I would also be a bit upset that she let things get this out of hand without some kind of communication. I mean, hell. She can communicate whenever she has a headache, tummy ache or tell stories about the gossip nonsense that goes on at the office, but not this?


----------



## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

coupdegrace said:


> First, I would have to ask how our relationship got to that point. If I woke up one day, and my wife told me something like that, I'd be a bit perplexed on how things went so wrong, so fast. I would also be a bit upset that she let things get this out of hand without some kind of communication. I mean, hell. She can communicate whenever she has a headache, tummy ache or tell stories about the gossip nonsense that goes on at the office, but not this?


It's not that they wake up and say they don't love us or not attracted to us. For me, I have known this for a very long time. I knew in my gut there was something missing.

For. For years now, I did all I could do to improve things... To get that feeling that my wife would desire me if I did xyz.... When I did all that and sex seemed like a chore for her, I knew she didn't love me like that...

I wasn't a shock when I forced that communication.... She didn't want to tell me.

My wife never wanted to tell me she didn't have that romantic love. So she complied with all the sex I wanted... She tried to avoid it when possible, but I knew...

For the normal marriage, it would be a shock... It wasn't a shock for me though..


----------



## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

treyvion said:


> You will get alot better. You were putting them undeservedly on a pedastal, when like you, they put on their pants two legs at a time, they poop, they urinate, and they have times of weakness.
> 
> Your opportunities will come.


My problem is that I haven't been looking in over 22 years... I don't know when women are being friendly or if they are interested, and are waiting for me...the man, to make the first move.

What I do know is that women initiate a conversation with me wherever I go...

Today I was a the grocery store and there was a vender selling expensive chocolate. So when I picked the one I wanted, she said that was her favorite too... Then as I was walking away, she asked if they were for a special someone... I said, " no... There for me". 

I hope I get over my nerdiness soon.


----------



## ifweonly (Feb 27, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> And when i see couple like this, I automatically assume that most likely this is new relationship for them. I have a feeling that I am right in around 80-90%.


My wife and I do hold hands in public (she is not into PDA but I keep trying), joke and talk up a storm to each other.You are mostly correct inasmuch my wife and I are in a new relationship --- we are working on our next 52 years together. Hmmm in the 10-20% bracket for once!

I know -- yes we are living in La La land but it is soooo much fun! I am also a realist knowing that it will all end someday when one or both of us are pushing up daisies.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You're not doing your daughter any favors Trickster. 

All I have to say.


----------

