# How do you know when it's really over?



## RT50 (Jan 24, 2012)

DH and I have been married for 13 years, no kids. We argue all the time and snap at each other. DH says he doesn't trust me (I've never done anything for him not to). DH threatens divorce. Sometimes I feel like I have to watch what I say around him. He takes things so literally. Our relationship didn't used to be this way. It's actually quite exhausting. There is a history of emotional and verbal abuse.

How do you know when the marriage is really over? How do we know if we're just going through a rough spot? I'm open to counseling, he isn't.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

It sounds awful.

Only you can decide when you have had enough, especially when he is making no effort to change things for the better. I think you should get counseling on your own to help you through what will be a difficult decision.


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## dormant (Apr 3, 2012)

I think the fact that you have to ask, says something needs to happen. Counseling, separation or even divorce. Only you can know which.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

It's over when one of you stops fighting. That's been my relationship experience. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RT50 (Jan 24, 2012)

He fights and I'm the one who doesn't fight back. I stand there with a glazed over look on my face and that infuriates him. But, I just can't fight back anymore especially when I don't know what it is we're fighting about.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

It's over when you no longer have ANY emotions for him. You don't get mad, you are no longer angry with him (what he does/doesn't do, what he should/shouldn't do) you just no longer care.

Remember, the opposite of love is NOT hate...it is apathy (indifference).


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

RT50 said:


> He fights and I'm the one who doesn't fight back. I stand there with a glazed over look on my face and that infuriates him. But, I just can't fight back anymore especially when I don't know what it is we're fighting about.


I don't think YinPrincess meant "fighting" in the sense of arguing and disagreeing. I think she meant the word in terms of working on and for the marriage, as in fighting for the marriage to survive.

In your situation, the marriage would have been over for me when the verbal and emotional abuse first began. I don't tolerate that for one minute. No matter how much I love the man, it's over when he shows me that he thinks he can mistreat me. I guess it will be over for you when you decide you love yourself more than you love him.


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## RT50 (Jan 24, 2012)

I was going to start a new thread, but I'll just continue on this one. 

We had a really bad weekend. DH was drinking heavily and basically giving me the silent treatment all weekend. He says he does certain things "to get through to" me, but I don't know what he means. He doesn't give specifics. 

Last night I basically told him that we can't continue this way. It's the saddest thing I've ever said. It's over. All we do is argue. He doesn't even want to try couseling together. 

Now, I'm wondering is the finality of divorce really the answer or should we just separate for a while. I'm so confused because I love him deeply, but I know what's going on in the marriage is wrong.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

I really commend you, RT50, for recognizing it has to stop. I want you to know you are not alone because I know you feel like you are. I also want you to know you are exhibiting the typical signs of an abused woman. You've finally reached the point that you want it to be over but are unable to let it go. I must admit your husband is an expert at psychological control, and now you just feel worn down. 

His position that he does certain things to get through to you is psychological abuse. The reason he says things like that is to obligate you to him and to confound you in order to make you think and feel so very incapable of understanding anything. You will try very hard to see these magnanimous efforts of his but will never find them. You will rack your brain to figure out what he means but will never understand them. And he will never explain because they are empty statements that are evidence of nothing. See what I mean? You are rightfully confused, as it is his intention to only confuse you. Until you understand it is only his tactic and not meant to make any sense and never will make any sense, then you will forever feel confused, beholden, obligated, responsible, and unable to tear yourself away. You will even try to devise ways to cling to your abuser.

It is common for abused women to stay. As result of the abuse, they think they want to stay, they should stay, or they convince themselves of what appear to be legitimate reasons that they cannot leave, such as children, finances, love, nowhere to go, etc.

That he refuses counseling is also typical of abusers. What he's saying is he refuses to change and doesn't want an authority figure to tell him he should. I wouldn't be surprised if he flipped your suggestion and dumped it on your head to suggest you are the one who needs help.

Don't fall for anymore of his antics. Refuse to be controlled by him any longer. I know it feels sad to finally come to the conclusion to end your marriage, but you don't have to feel you failed at the marriage because its demise is not your fault. You cannot change him and you cannot make him want to change, therefore you are not responsible for success or failure. He completely refuses to change by refusing help for the marriage.

I urge you to let go and walk away. Typical to the abuser's nature, he is going to promise you the world to get you back, including promises to attend marriage counseling. You will want to believe him. You will want to go back. But you cannot go back too soon. You have to hold out until he exhibits real effort to keep his promises, and that means attending counseling for at least a month. Try very hard to be strong and overcome your emotional urges to go back to him. Believe me, this is also a typical state and a typical stage, so you have to resist. If you go back too soon, nothing will improve for more than a couple weeks and then go right back to his usual abusive antics. You will feel drawn to each other and go at it like rabbits, but that's just the honeymoon phase. Honeymoons don't last a lifetime.

Be selective in choosing a marriage counselor to find one that is experienced in working with abusive relationships. However, you may find that you have to shop around for counselors before finding the right fit. Don't let anyone jump down your husband's throat. It might make you feel good to finally have someone telling him what he needs to hear and validating what you've been going through, but it will be counterproductive. He will reject it and feel alienated. A good counselor won't do that and will have better ways to place you both on a goal-oriented road to better communication skills and conflict resolution.

Also, get into individual counseling to help yourself heal from the abuse. By calling the domestic abuse hotline or dialing 211, they will help you find local women's abuse centers that have free counseling available. It's very important you understand what you have been living with and that you understand the Cycles of Abuse. They can help you with all of that.


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## RT50 (Jan 24, 2012)

River1977 - Wow, you hit it right on! To add to my turmoil he's been accusing me of cheating and I have never done anything like that. 

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Now, I don't feel like I'm going crazy. He makes me feel like I'm the cause of all of the problems; him losing his temper, me "not getting it". 

Oh, I actually have been seeing a counselor for a while now and it really is helping me.

Fortunately we don't have kids, just a dog. But, all of this drama is even taking a toll on the dog.

I just want to add that he picks fights with everyone. His family, my family. He has even called my family to tell them the marriage is over. What mature adult does that??? We should be able to work through this on my own.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

RT50 said:


> River1977 - Wow, you hit it right on! * To add to my turmoil he's been accusing me of cheating and I have never done anything like that. *
> 
> Thank you, thank you, thank you. Now, I don't feel like I'm going crazy. He makes me feel like I'm the cause of all of the problems; him losing his temper, me "not getting it".


You might be surprised that if he is accusing YOU of cheating, that he may be the one cheating.... He will keep you so down, and having to "defend" yourself so much, that you would never suspect him.. Just a thought...


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

Romeo's Bleeding - When Mr. Right Turns Out To Be Mr. Wrong
This link will help you understand the man you're married to. It describes the abusive natures and tendencies of both the narcissist and borderline. Most men who are abusive usually fall in within the characteristic of one or the other. Everything you describe will be in this article. You will see your husband in practically every paragraph.

Breaking Up with Someone Who is BPD
This article is about how to break up with someone who has Borderline Personality Disorder. I''m not sure why they limited it to borderlines specifically because it's good advice to survive any breakup.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

RT50 said:


> Fortunately we don't have kids,
> 
> He has even called my family to tell them the marriage is over. What mature adult does that??? We should be able to work through this on my own.


For gawd's sake, don't get pregnant.

Mature adults don't do that, but it sounds like you're married to a hurt little boy. I'm pro-marriage, but you need to speak to a lawyer to get the ball rolling.


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## RT50 (Jan 24, 2012)

At this point I need to save my money. He doesn't have a job and we have huge financial problems. Unfortunately, I can't afford to consult an attorney right now. 

I always told him that there was a reason we never had kids, and now I firmly believe it. Someone is watching over me.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

Women's abuse centers also have access to housing programs to pay or help you pay rent and utilities, as well as paying or providing vouchers to waive security deposits. Contact them. There is a lot available that people don't normally hear about. Any help you can get will help you expedite your exit.


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## RT50 (Jan 24, 2012)

I have three threads going on here so I'm going to post an update on each of them.

Update: We had a huge breakthrough last night. DH finally confided in me about what's been going on. It was a very emotional night. He has a history of childhood abuse/neglect. We can finally get the help that he needs. Although, I wish he had trusted me with this information sooner, I'm happy that he can slowly begin to heal. I knew it was something. Thank you for all of your support!


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