# 2nd Marriage, credit card problems



## smb1691 (Jan 31, 2015)

I recently enter my 2nd marriage to a woman (both in our 50s) who appears to have major problems with money. Approx 1 month prior to our marriage, she informed me that she had 38K in credit card bills. Her car is paid off, but has no other assets. She informed me that she did not expect me to help her pay these credit card bills off. She claimed these bills were the result of her ex husband (but I doubt this now)  She was renting an apartment, living alone, with her 2 dogs.
After we married, we moved into my house, which is almost paid off. She takes home about $2500 a month after all taxes, retirement, 401K and insurance is taken out of her check, contributes $200 towards utilities and approx $150 - $200 a month in groceries. I told her not to worry about any other house expenses and put everything else towards her credit card bills. Her other major bills are basically gas, medical bills, and her cell phone. I figured she would have at least $1500 in expendable income to pay her credit cards down, especially since I pay the bill the majority of times when we go out to dinner, or social activities. She makes approx 55K a year and I make about 65K. We keep our money separate (separate accounts for everything) except one joint account for house utilities. I decided this was the best action, based on her financial state. My vision for our future was to have her credit cards paid off in approx 2 years. My house would be paid off by then, we could buy some land together, sell my house, and I would contribute the income from the sale of my home to build our retirement home. 
During our first year of marriage, I did not check to see if she was paying down her credit card bills, since I did not want to get drastically involved in her finances. When we sat down to review credit reports after 12 months of marriage, I found that she had not reduced her credit card balances at all, still holding about 38K on the total balances. Apparently she was paying payments and re-charging against the cards. After another nine months later (1 ¾ years into the marriage), I have discovered that she has paid off on some credit cards, but increased balances on others, even though she stated that the cards would not be used. She is still in debt about 37K, even though for the 18 months we have been married, she had approx 25K in expendable income to pay the credit card balances down. Don’t ask me what she spent the money on, all I know it was not for my bills. I have talked to her several times about her credit card debts, but she gets upset and informs me that she is paying them off. In reality, she has had almost 2 years of expendable income, with no house payments or car payments from her salary, yet cant reduce the balances of her credits card substantially. 
The financial situation seems to be getting worse. I just completed our taxes and found that my wife’s take home pay increased about $175 a month for the 2014 year, thru changing her tax status from single to married, reducing her federal tax deductions from her paycheck. Even with this additional money, she has failed to reduce her credit card debt substantially, and we now have to pay uncle sam for taxes this year, instead of getting a refund. 
I have always been very financially responsible, had little to no credit card debt, saved regularly, and have excellent credit. My wife is a loving person but I am at the point of making a major decision regarding the future of our marriage. I was especially disturbed when I recently took actions to update my will. I originally had my possessions and assets distributed to my 3 children, but updated my will to include my wife. I was shaken when my wife (who has no assets to speak of) stated that I should be leaving my entire estate to her, to support her, and nothing be awarded to my children until after her death. It was my belief, based on my wife’s financial irresponsibility, that nothing would be left for my kids.
I know this probably paints a terrible picture of my wife, but she is a caring person, who cares for my youngest daughter (who lives with us) very much. She has spent some money for things around the house (curtains, blinds, some personal items for my daughter, etc) but it does not add up to a ton of money, not enough to support not reducing her credit card debt. I just believe that her financial behavior is a major issue. I recently had a friend who remarried in his 50s, and ended his marriage based on his wife’s financial irresponsibility. There have been a few other bumps in the road lately with our marriage, I am just wondering if I should cut my losses and end the marriage, or stick with it and keep plugging at her money issues. I know the longer I stay in the marriage, the harder its gonna be to walk away.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

You knew about her credit card debt before you married her so why is it a problem now? If it was a big problem for you then you should have waited until she had them paid off before you two got married. It doesn't affect you as the debt is in her name. Keep your will leaving your assets to your children. Money is the number 1 reason people divorce and you two clearly have different spending styles but you this when you married her. You keep mentioning she doesn't have assets, you knew this when you married her so I assume you married her because you love her and her other qualities so stay married for those reasons and don't be so obsessed about her credit card debts.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Why don't you try helping her with her finances, rather than considering going straight for divorce? And by that, I don't mean giving her money. But helping with budgeting, being accountable, etc.

C


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

How do people not wise up a bit by mid life?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Happilymarried25 said:


> You knew about her credit card debt before you married her so why is it a problem now? If it was a big problem for you then you should have waited until she had them paid off before you two got married. It doesn't affect you as the debt is in her name. Keep your will leaving your assets to your children. Money is the number 1 reason people divorce and you two clearly have different spending styles but you this when you married her. You keep mentioning she doesn't have assets, you knew this when you married her so I assume you married her because you love her and her other qualities so stay married for those reasons and don't be so obsessed about her credit card debts.


I think you're missing the fact that she pretty clearly wasn't honest with him -- she told him the debt was all because of her ex-husband, and that's clearly not the case. I'd say that's at least a yellow flag, if not a red one.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

PBear said:


> Why don't you try helping her with her finances, rather than considering going straight for divorce? And by that, I don't mean giving her money. But helping with budgeting, being accountable, etc.
> 
> C


I think this is a good idea, to try at least, but it depends on the root of the problem.

It's possible that, coming from a background without much money, she just never learned to manage her finances. I have a good friend like this, a responsible hardworking guy who once told me "You know, I just did a budget for the first time ever. No one in my family ever taught me how to do this." He had literally never sat down and looked at his incoming and outgoing cashflow and made sure that his bills and spending didn't outstrip his income.

However, it's also possible that she has a real spending problem or "addiction." I'm already concerned about this because of the dishonesty about the source of the debt. If that's the case, merely being the friendly budgeting counselor is not going to have much success, because there's a deeper pathological problem at work, and that problem will lead to all kinds of dishonesty and self-deception. 

Worth a try though.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I would make a strict budgeting plan for her to follow, if you think for any reason you might end up responsible for her debts (not sure how your state handles this). And for sure, keep the money for your kids, maybe a small but fair amount for her. She has her own job, after all.

Honestly, I bet there are lots of very nice, very financially responsible older women out there. I would not feel obliged to stay with this one. Jmo.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Somehow I'm reminded of a couple we knew who divorced. The guy had lots of problems for sure, and she had many legitimate good reasons to divorce him. One of her reasons, she said, was that he "got them into credit card debt" and "hid it from her." However, (1) she had no interest in even paying attention to their finances and (2) she spent money like water, and continues to do so post divorce in spite of a small income. She also makes all kinds of bad financial decisions. 

So maybe in this woman's mind, it was all her ex's fault too.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

jld said:


> I would make a strict budgeting plan for her to follow, if you think for any reason you might end up responsible for her debts (not sure how your state handles this). And for sure, keep the money for your kids, maybe a small but fair amount for her. She has her own job, after all.


Since she is technically paying off old debt and replacing it with old debt, he is on the hook in a community property state.

Truly though, he is on the hook indirectly. He is subsidizing her lifestyle and sacrificing to pay the bills. It looks like she expects it. He must establish a budget regardless of legal circumstances.

This woman has a major entitlement issue. While putting in $200 monthly on groceries, she takes back as much by decreasing her tax withholding. Effectively, she contributes nothing to the household while making nearly half of the income.

Her lifestyle went up when they married. She spends everything on herself. Her debt is only a year's pay; it would be far higher if she had spent the same way while single. Even if not financially savvy, she must notice she lives well while he sacrifices, and it does not seem to bother her. That is the real issue.

My concern is this is only the beginning. She objects to not being his sole beneficiary. She is saying "I should get all of it even though I did not build it up". They have many years ahead. What will happen when they face significant house or car repairs? Will she resent him when he retires and can no longer subsidize her?

OP, you need to insist on better from her and at the same time show that it's doable with a minimum of prudence. Were I in your shoes I would do the following:

1) Explain your money goals and current reality to your wife, as in "I want to be able to retire in 10 years and that won't happen at this rate. I'm all in just supporting us right now, and I need your help". Does she know that you like to do for her but don't see it as your responsibility?

2) Insist that she undo the change to her tax withholdings and pay this year's tax liability. Her taking away the little bit she actually does put in is pure B.S.

3) Do not buy a new house with her. You cannot count on her to help you out (at least not now) and you seem to be stretching yourself already. Also, she needs to see that there is a limit to what you will provide, and a new house says the opposite.

4) Continue to pay for your home (mortgage and maintenance). Ask her to step up her household help - $200 is not enough. 

5) Ask her to pay off her credit card bills - 1.5 years months at $2k per month. That leaves her $1k per month for herself, which is a lot of money to spend on just stuff. Point out the interest is at least $400 monthly, which could boost your bottom line if she will sacrifice for a short time.

6) Ask her to take responsibility for her future. She needs to step it up if she wants to retire (I assume her current $200 is as good as it has been). Since you pay for almost everything, a reasonable goal is to contribute 1/3 of her income to her401(k) after paying the credit cards off. Remind her that is a nice six-figure balance even with lousy investment returns.

If she won't agree to such a reasonable plan to right her own financial ship and reduce the burden on you, you have serious relationship issues and need to make some serious decisions for the future.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I can't think of any reason she couldn't be putting $1000 a month down against her credit card debt. I would also expect that she not use the cards any more. If she's serious, that $37K should be down pretty close to $27K in a year. If it's not even close to that figure, show her the door. If she can't partner and manage money by age 50, there's little point in spending the next 40 years fighting with her. I agree that leaving all your money to her would be like leaving booze to a drunk. Your kids would never see a dime.


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## parker (Dec 2, 2012)

Ewwww. You two need Dave Ramsey.


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## lovesmanis (Oct 9, 2014)

Take her cards away. Give her an allowance. Some people are just useless when it comes to managing finances.

Oh yeah, and dont change your will.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You're supposed to evaluate potential wives in all respects prior to marriage.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Hicks said:


> You're supposed to evaluate potential wives in all respects prior to marriage.


Caveat emptor?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening SMB1691
My philosophy is that when you get married, you share everything. 

So - combine incomes. Then if you are better at budgeting than her, you do the financial stuff, she does some other chore. You pay the credit card bills from your common pool of money. 

You each get an equal budget for "fun", then split the rest for joint expenses.

A marriage is a lifetime commitment, a debt of 25% of a year's combined income isn't a big deal.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

But what if she does not agree?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening SMB1691
> My philosophy is that when you get married, you share everything.
> 
> So - combine incomes. Then if you are better at budgeting than her, you do the financial stuff, she does some other chore. You pay the credit card bills from your common pool of money.
> ...


This actually isn't a bad idea -- she gets access to the joint money and you get full transparency on spending, so it potentially becomes easier to find a solution. If she does have a spending problem, she may also find it easier to control if she knows you can see what she spends.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

cut your losses. or pay the consequence.

she lied about how the debt accumulated
she lied about paying it down as you guys agreed
she wants to inherit ALL of your assets and leave you to trust her to be wise with your money if you die!


she is showing you her true colors and at this late age is not likely to change and become wise with money.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Tough, tough call. She apparently is not skilled at setting a budget and unnecessarily lives in the culture of living paycheck to paycheck. 

At the same time, you agreed to split finances except a share pot for utilities. So basically, you have established a scenario where you don't have any say-so concerning her budgeting...and she really doesn't have right to your estate. 

Although I suppose this is because you have remarried older and are used to a large degree of independence, but at the same time, this an area where you have not come together even though this still majorly affects you in a large way. 

I would tell your wife that you would be willing to consider adding her to the will (and not the WHOLE estate) if and only if, she get financial counseling (I would say you should look up a local Financial Peace University class that you do together), cuts the credit cards, and pays off the debt. State firmly that you do not intend for your estate to pay off irresponsible debt. Of course, say all of this in love...and show you are willing to take the journey with her...or else it's best to not say anything at all.


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## smb1691 (Jan 31, 2015)

Thanks for all the responses…………..I wanted to add a few points to this issue
After my divorce, while being single for over 10 years and raising my kids (I had custody) I was a “Hard Ass” when it came to my deal breaker list while dating, I found though I was not finding anyone to fit the bill, breaking up with women over the smallest of issues, so I started slacking off of my deal breaker list. I fell in love with this person, and let my guard down on my deal breaker list. My love for my wife has clouded my judgment on certain issues, issues I recognize now I would normally have never accepted.
My Wife has some very good positives, …. easy going personality, gets along great with my kids and mom very well (mom can be tough), not quick to argue. Her Job has good benefits, pays her own medical bills, she has her own retirement with the state (medical field) and does many small things, very considerate to me and my kids/mother , we have a good sex life, and enjoy each others company. 
The problem is with my wife’s negatives…….her spending and Credit Card issues, not revealed until one month prior to our marriage, was def holding back on the issue, since I stressed “Openess” on these issues during dating. I accepted her problems with the credit card debt when we married, but I also know that two years was more than enough time to significantly reduce her debt. From the looks of things now, by this Summer, she will have made approx 30K in payments against her credit cards, yet only reduced her total debt by approx 5K.(if that much?) She works 4 days a week (off 3), has no interest in working extra hrs to reduce her debt, gets a massage every week on her day off and nails done a couple times a month ( I see many areas to cut her spending) ………….at times I feel she has a “Hidden Agenda” …..with her actions related to her behavior of my will. 
Prior to our marriage, I know my wife was paying approx $950 a month rent, along with approx $1000 towards her credit cards (which she was probably charging back against to support some of her expenses). With no rent now, she gained at least $950 in expendable income, but to hear her talk though, she is barely making it. She also gained an additional $175 a month in expendable income when she changed her tax withholding status from Single to Married, so that’s additional money that seems to be going somewhere. I believe after we married, she increased contributing to her 401K at work, but I know once all the deductions are made from her check, including her $200 monthly contribution to utilities, she has $2400 deposited in her checking account monthly to spend.
As far as divorce, don’t live in a community state, her debts brought into the marriage are hers, my debts are mine, the house , and all pre marital assets stay mine as long as I don’t sell and she has no financial connections to making the house payments, if I “transmute property” into a marital asset, she automatically gets half…..I am very knowledgeable in the legal areas of divorce in my state, and have an excellent attorney that has handled my past legal issues , so I am well aware of how to protect myself from being “cleaned out” if a 2nd divorce would occur. I am not interested in combining our money and trying to completely manage her spending, I had enough of that with my first wife and I know the troubles it can create. I also know she is not interested in combining accounts as well, based on her conversations.
I love my wife and was willing to help her get out of debt by letting her live for the past 2 years with minor financial contributions to the marriage. I feel as if she has had a chance to fix this, and I am not going to use my money to pay her debt. I recently had a friend who divorced his 2nd wife for her irresponsibility in handling finances, making 125K and having nothing to show for it, basically bailing out her two grown kids every month. I know right now I could file for divorce, basically claiming incompatibility, and get out with minimal damage, but when you love someone, its true to say that Love can make a person “blind, def, dumb, and stupid………


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## Mr.D.E.B.T. (Jul 19, 2012)

I would say the good outweighs the bad. Her debt won't affect your credit or the house, so if she goes to her grave with debt its not going to harm you. She probably wont change at this stage of her life, so don't get too fustrated with her behavior. Overall she seems like a nice gal. Stay the course.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

I am 57 years of age and has a wonderful friend who is 51 years old. She has been divorced three times. She is a hard working woman, but loves to shop and travel. She owed about $40,000.00 in credit cards and took a whole semester of financial planning. The class did not work. She just lost her home as she stopped paying the mortgage. She was underwater on this home. She made this a justification to stop payments.

My friend is actively dating, seeking a 4th husband without success. She is a beautiful woman, fun, vivacious, but financially irresponsible. Her haunt in dating in our academic environment will not yield positive results as academic professionals in their 50s are financially savy. I doubt if your wife will change in her spending habits.

I wouldn't change my will as she has not contributed anything to your estate. Cut your loss and let her go if you don't want to live in the manner that you have presented here. You will resent her in the end.


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## Aspydad (Oct 17, 2013)

Some people are just no good at managing money. It seems to me that you need to take over the financials completely. You just sitting on the sidelines hoping your wife will do this IS NOT WORKING!!

What interest is your wife paying on these cards? Someone who has close to 38K on credit cards most likely is paying a very high rate. First thing I would do is see if I could consolidate to to the lowest possible interest rate. Pay down these cards from highest to lowest interest rate.

Then, you need to relieve your wife of all cards that are in her name. Any purchase that is required to be made by a credit card should be made by you. The best solution of course is to just pay cash until you guys get the financial part of you marriage in order.

You need to have both of your paychecks come into one account that you have control of. Then, you transfer money into your wife's account from there for things that she needs to pay for - this is budgeted and not just here you go buy away!!

Last - you need to track every dime spent every day by BOTH of you - which means you have access to all credit cards online and of course your wife's checking account - you can watch all of this on line. When I mean track - I don;t just mean have a look - I mean have an excel spread-sheet and log / categorize expenses EVERY DAY.

One thing that is imperative is that you need to pay the credit debt FIRST - get that payment out of the way as soon as your pay hits the bank and the rest is to live on PERIOD. 

If you do not do this then you reduce your chances of ever getting out of this large debt.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

I would just suggest to her that now that you have been together for two years, she has had an opportunity to pay off her CC debt, and now she can start contributing more to the household expenses. Charge her more than the $200 share, charge her something closer to half. Ask her to contribute half the money for any vacations you go on too, etc. If she complains about being unable to do this, you can then offer to help her manage her finances a bit better and maybe show her how much she's paying in pure CC debt interest. Her problem is not the massages and manicures necessarily, but in carrying so much CC debt.

I certainly wouldn't put her in your will. That's for your descendents, not your dependants.

The fact that she deceived you about this financial stuff is worrisome. If she can't be honest with you, there are bigger problems ahead for your marriage. It may be helpful to explain this to her.


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