# Looking for advice



## bluefin33 (Aug 9, 2017)

Hello,

I'm new here and want to get some other people's thoughts. Just some quick background. My wife had an affair 2 years ago. I thought I got over it, but in reality, I probably haven't. Anyway, after the affair she seemed to be the perfect wife, for 3 months exactly. After that, she was friendly and all that, but didn't really put much effort into our relationship. I bought this up multiple time but was only met with excuses, anger, or told I was imagining it. After about 8 months of this I had finally had enough and disengaged with her. After several months of that, she became the perfect wife again, for 3 months. Anyway, we are back in the distant phase. What bothers me about all of this is: 1. Why the 3 month on, 9 month off cycle? 2. It seems to be getting worse lately 3. her lack of effort of willingness to do anything or even talk about it. It has been progressively getting worse lately. No time together, even though I ask for it, not much affection, rarely asks me about anything. Only superficial talk. I don't know what to do. Talking to her accomplishes nothing, reaching out to her is starting to make me feel like a begging fool. I really can't grasp what is going on. Since the affair I have made a lot of positive changes - both for her and myself. I had high hopes for us, but am realizing that she hasn't put in any kind of sustained effort. I've read enough to know that if things don't change, our marriage will eventually end in disaster. Just want to hear if anyone else has been through something similar and try to figure out what is going on.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Very Sorry you are going through this.
My thoughts: a) she isn't really remorseful that you found out about it, or b) she is still having affairs.

Have you checked all of her electronics/email/etc.? You may want to check phone bills, etc., and even get a few VARS (Voice Activated Recorder) for the car/house where she makes calls just to make sure that things are NOT still going on. I'm sure someone will add a link to what you should do/check.

Have you both gone to IC or MC (Individual/Marriage Counseling)? Sounds like the affair was a bit rug-swept and never really resolved.


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## Dannip (Jun 13, 2017)

She treats you bad when she's back on with a guy cheating. When it's over she's back with you. 

Based on what you've said, she's very likely still cheating.


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## bluefin33 (Aug 9, 2017)

Thanks for the replies. You are right, it was all swept under the rug, and I let that happen. I was way too forgiving and she didn't really suffer any consequences other than a few tense conversations. Neither of us have done any counseling. I thought I could just plow through it and let it go. All bad moves on my part.As for her being remorseful - she is not and has all but come out and said that. Haven't done any snooping as I'm not sure if there is a point. Very little I can do about it. Another affair, yea I've thought about that. Who wants to believe it is possible, but I know better than that. I did bring it up once and she said no about it, but what else would she say? She did have a close friend who died about 8 months ago and is depressed so I was hoping it was just that, but in reality things just don't really add up. I guess I'll keep my eyes and ears open and see what happens. Things are getting pretty tense between us as I have trouble engaging with due anger and resentment.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I suggest the e-book "Women's Infidelity" if you can find it cheap somewhere. The author asks an unreasonable amount on her website. But I think she describes a common mindset of women who cheat, and I think your wife sounds like she is in that particular group.

One person cannot save or build a marriage alone. Your wife needs to enthusiastically participate. Why she isn't so keen on doing so isn't actually all that important. What is important is that she isn't putting in the effort consistently.

I think she is doing what she thinks she has to, but nothing more. I bet there is a cycle she is seeing from her side, where she sees things going pretty well from her viewpoint, and so she slacks off. Then after about 9 months she starts to get worried because you've pulled back and she has noticed it. So she steps things up.

When someone cheats, I am of the belief it frequently is productive for the betrayed to file for divorce because it forces the cheater to do A+ work to save the marriage. The cheater knows if they don't work hard at R, the betrayed is going to continue the divorce to completion. But if the betrayed doesn't file, the cheater only has to do D- work. They only have to do just barely enough that the betrayed won't actually leave. I think that is the kind of cycle you are in with her, where she reverts to D- for about 9 months, then she starts to worry you might leave, then she'll step it up to A+ until she feels secure again.

My xw did something similar with sex, which is a common thing we see on this forum. She would avoid sex for however long (usually months, sometimes years), then she'd get worried I'd leave so she'd serve up some hot sex for a month or 2. That would reset the clock, so she'd feel secure withholding sex for a while again. The psychology is a lot like gambling, where the occasional win keeps you thinking the next win is moments away. You might be responding the same way, put off balance by her 3 months of Stepford Wife act, and then slowly distancing during the 9 months she reverts to cold behavior.


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

Sounds like she is continuing to cheat. Those 3 month stretches of her pretending to be kind to you is the time in between her affairs.


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

Well, try ruling out another affair but I think it could also be about her close friends death. I know when my mom's close friend passed, she acted differently and still does in a way. Marriage counseling could help figure out what it going on.


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## bluefin33 (Aug 9, 2017)

Thanks for the replies. Thor, I think you may be right. I know I should bring it up, but talking to her is a little on the difficult side to say the least. I worry a little that I'm making a bigger deal out of it than it really is. I guess I'll have to give some thought on how to approach it. My past attempts have not worked.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

What do you have to lose by divorcing?

Kids,money,?

If not dump the skank!


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## bluefin33 (Aug 9, 2017)

Yea, of course kids and money. I think the real problem is the fact that it has all been rugswept and there has been no accountability, let alone effort. I tried to bring it up again a few days ago, but she pretty much blew up, which made me feel bad for even bringing it up. I think it bothers me so much for several reasons. 1. since she is so justified about everything, I fear she would do it again, if she hasn't already. I see a lot that some spouses confess they will never do it again, mine didn't even do that. All she said was I would never cheat on the husband you are now. Guess I better not slip up? 2. I wonder what kind of person she really is - really doesn't seem to care at all about how I feel about it. Can that really be normal? 3. By not addressing things I never feel quite right with her, it is like an elephant in the room, for me anyway. Anyway, I feel like I'm at some breaking point, it is hard to keep going like this. From what I've read, it is impossible to R with her acting like this so I guess we are really in a false R. I'm not trying to say she is a bad person and I do want to make things work, but without her cooperation, I feel doomed. I do believe she thinks everything is just fine between us and can't understand why I can't let it go. I'd love to let it go, but it just isn't working.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

If she's not having another affair, then she's only nice to you when she's afraid of losing you, and when you are present and making an effort, she feels she doesn't need to. Either way, she's not really into you, just the security or other benefits you provide. It may be time to just cut her loose for good.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

bluefin33 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm new here and want to get some other people's thoughts. Just some quick background. My wife had an affair 2 years ago. I thought I got over it, but in reality, I probably haven't. Anyway, after the affair she seemed to be the perfect wife, for 3 months exactly. After that, she was friendly and all that, but didn't really put much effort into our relationship. I bought this up multiple time but was only met with excuses, anger, or told I was imagining it. After about 8 months of this I had finally had enough and disengaged with her. After several months of that, she became the perfect wife again, for 3 months. Anyway, we are back in the distant phase. What bothers me about all of this is: 1. Why the 3 month on, 9 month off cycle? 2. It seems to be getting worse lately 3. her lack of effort of willingness to do anything or even talk about it. It has been progressively getting worse lately. No time together, even though I ask for it, not much affection, rarely asks me about anything. Only superficial talk. I don't know what to do. Talking to her accomplishes nothing, reaching out to her is starting to make me feel like a begging fool. I really can't grasp what is going on. Since the affair I have made a lot of positive changes - both for her and myself. I had high hopes for us, but am realizing that she hasn't put in any kind of sustained effort. I've read enough to know that if things don't change, our marriage will eventually end in disaster. Just want to hear if anyone else has been through something similar and try to figure out what is going on.



Sorry you are here. R takes two. It appears to me your W has not reengaged and really worked on the marriage. Your W offered up a 3 month facade to keep you around. Then let off thinking you are all good. When you appear not your W begins the facade once again. Was the affair carpet swept? 

If you really want to know what is going on advise your W the current status quo is not working and D could be a reality.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Women don't respect weak men. You will also learn that being fearful of her reactions will make things much worse for you. By rug sweeping the affair, your wife knows that she can push the envelope further and if you raise your concerns, she'll intimidate you into backing down. This is not some mystery that you can't solve. You know what you need to do; you just don't have the courage to do it. 

And yes, you are in a false R AND your wife is a bad person.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

bluefin33 said:


> Yea, of course kids and money. I think the real problem is the fact that it has all been rugswept and there has been no accountability, let alone effort. I tried to bring it up again a few days ago, but she pretty much blew up, which made me feel bad for even bringing it up. I think it bothers me so much for several reasons. 1. since she is so justified about everything, I fear she would do it again, if she hasn't already. I see a lot that some spouses confess they will never do it again, mine didn't even do that. All she said was I would never cheat on the husband you are now. Guess I better not slip up? 2. I wonder what kind of person she really is - really doesn't seem to care at all about how I feel about it. Can that really be normal? 3. By not addressing things I never feel quite right with her, it is like an elephant in the room, for me anyway. Anyway, I feel like I'm at some breaking point, it is hard to keep going like this. From what I've read, it is impossible to R with her acting like this so I guess we are really in a false R. I'm not trying to say she is a bad person and I do want to make things work, but without her cooperation, I feel doomed. I do believe she thinks everything is just fine between us and can't understand why I can't let it go. I'd love to let it go, but it just isn't working.


BLAME SHIFT!!! Never cheat on the H you are NOW??? What a peach. Dude, get the D papers rolling. Become the man your WW thought you would never be. One with set and not afraid to call the ball. WW will change her damn tune.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

bluefin33 said:


> Yea, of course kids and money. I think the real problem is the fact that it has all been rugswept and there has been no accountability, let alone effort. I tried to bring it up again a few days ago, but she pretty much blew up, which made me feel bad for even bringing it up.


She had an affair, you are allowed to be angry, even though it is a couple of years later. Especially if the whole incident was rug swept. I get it, you are afraid that she might leave. Having been in your shoes, I can tell you that you need to stop being a nice guy and be prepared to let it all end.

I read what you wrote and it sounds like you have more remorse over this then your wife ever did. Of course she is not remorseful, she is just upset she got caught. Being the nice guy you are, you allowed her back with no consequences and a minimum of effort to act nice. All she has to do is show a little bluster and you back down.

I highly recommend you read "No more Mr. Nice Guy" and start to implement some of what is written (It is available for free online, just Google it). You are allowed to have feelings and be heard. The worst that can happen is that you all divorce. For me, it ended up being one of the best things to ever happen. I live me life the way I want to and get to keep all of my money.


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## bluefin33 (Aug 9, 2017)

Yea, I know you are all correct, I've let this happen. becareful2, you are right, she is not a good person. But who wants to admit that to their self? I still worry that maybe I'm dwelling on this and making it into something it is not, but I doubt it. Guess I just need to figure out how to take the next step, which I have to do or this will eat me up.

Either way, she's not really into you, just the security or other benefits you provide. Never wanted to admit this, but this is exactly what her actions or lack there of tell me


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Just a few questions. 

How old are you both and your kids?
How long have you been married?
What would she say are the things she is unhappy about in your relationship?


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## bluefin33 (Aug 9, 2017)

I'm 45, w44, s10, d7. Been married 18 years. Not caring or attentive enough, don't show enough appreciation, not enough sex, etc. All were true, at least to some extent. I went through a few periods of depression that hurt her a bit. When I add all of this up, I do think she has a right to be mad and maybe I deserve what I'm getting. I know I didn't cause the affair, but I certainly created a lot of the situation that led up to it. This is one of the things that holds me back from taking any actions. I think in her mind, she is thinking you hurt me, now it is your turn. I've learned that we didn't communicate much in the past, which I'm trying to fix, but she fights me all of the time when the communication involves her taking responsibility for anything, not just the affair. As I'm sitting here writing this, I'm realizing it is not the affair that bothers me anymore, it is her cold attitude about it and the remarks she has made.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

May I ask why did you decide to stay with her after she did this terrible thing to you?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

bluefin33 said:


> Yea, of course kids and money. I think the real problem is the fact that it has all been rugswept and there has been no accountability, let alone effort. I tried to bring it up again a few days ago, but she pretty much blew up, which made me feel bad for even bringing it up. I think it bothers me so much for several reasons. 1. since she is so justified about everything, I fear she would do it again, if she hasn't already. I see a lot that some spouses confess they will never do it again, mine didn't even do that. All she said was I would never cheat on the husband you are now. Guess I better not slip up? 2. I wonder what kind of person she really is - really doesn't seem to care at all about how I feel about it. Can that really be normal? 3. By not addressing things I never feel quite right with her, it is like an elephant in the room, for me anyway. Anyway, I feel like I'm at some breaking point, it is hard to keep going like this. From what I've read, it is impossible to R with her acting like this so I guess we are really in a false R. I'm not trying to say she is a bad person and I do want to make things work, but without her cooperation, I feel doomed. I do believe she thinks everything is just fine between us and can't understand why I can't let it go. I'd love to let it go, but it just isn't working.


Everything is fine for her. She knows you won't rock the boat because you are afraid of reduced contact with the kids and don't want the expense of a divorce. She is in great shape because she can have her fun with other men and you will just tip toe around her and try not to anger her. If you do get a little annoying with your questions and insecurities, all she has to do is "blow up" and you will drop it and back down. 

She is fine because she get the security and convenience of a live-in babysitter and roommate to help with the housekeeping and bills and doesn't even need to be nice to you or have sex with you. and she gets to have wild monkey sex with other men. She gets to have her cake and eat it too. She has it made.

You are the one that is being chumped and taken for a ride here. You are the one with the problem here. Things are completely Jim Dandy for her.

Here's a little secret - men that aren't afraid to spend some money in a divorce, aren't afraid to upset their cheating wives and aren't afraid to have shared custody of kids rarely get cheated on and never get cheated on twice. 

My reccommendation is consult a divorce attorney and get an appraisal of how much a D would actually cost and find out what your custodial arrangements will likely be like.

You discover that it actually is doable and that you will be able to live with unyoking yourself from her and making a good life for yourself and that you do not need to let the fear of losing some money and having shared custody stop you from moving on with your own life and not being mistreated, disrespected, cheated in and emasculated by her.

Sometimes losing a few dollars is a whole lot cheaper than losing your dignity and self respect.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

bluefin33 said:


> I'm 45, w44, s10, d7. Been married 18 years. Not caring or attentive enough, don't show enough appreciation, not enough sex, etc. All were true, at least to some extent. I went through a few periods of depression that hurt her a bit. When I add all of this up, I do think she has a right to be mad and maybe I deserve what I'm getting. I know I didn't cause the affair, but I certainly created a lot of the situation that led up to it. This is one of the things that holds me back from taking any actions. I think in her mind, she is thinking you hurt me, now it is your turn. I've learned that we didn't communicate much in the past, which I'm trying to fix, but she fights me all of the time when the communication involves her taking responsibility for anything, not just the affair. As I'm sitting here writing this, I'm realizing it is not the affair that bothers me anymore, it is her cold attitude about it and the remarks she has made.


What she did to you was abuse. No one deserves to be abused. Your thinking on this is wrong and very codependent. I suggest you get some IC. You sound like the person whose spouse hit them and says, well I deserve it I yelled at him. It's not healthy. 

Google "married to a female narcissist" Does this sound like your wife? From what I have read narcissist are very good at blame shifting and getting their partners to think they are responsible for they the narcissists despicable actions. They are also good a changing on a dime to avoid true work and consequences. They also specifically pick codependent people to marry as those people fit right into their patterns and support their brokenness. 

See if you have problems in your marriage the way to deal with them is to talk about it. If that doesn't work you get marriage counseling. If that doesn't work at the very last resort you divorce. Cheating is just selfish abuse and really doesn't have anything to do with marriage problems. It has to do with the abusive person who cheats. 

You need to change your thinking you are not healthy. You sound codependent.  Many men who post threads like yours are. They wouldn't put up with the crap you have if they weren't. Unfortunately there is a good chance this has been a pattern in your relationship from the start and the A was just the final consequence. You should work on that in yourself and then reassess if this is truly a healthy relationship for you. 

There are any number of books. One was already posted. Also

The human magnet syndrome.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

bluefin33 said:


> Guess I just need to figure out how to take the next step, which I have to do or this will eat me up.



I made a post about this very thing. Read these posts, hopefully they will give you some strength.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

bluefin33 said:


> I'm 45, w44, s10, d7. Been married 18 years. Not caring or attentive enough, don't show enough appreciation, not enough sex, etc. All were true, at least to some extent. I went through a few periods of depression that hurt her a bit. When I add all of this up, I do think she has a right to be mad and maybe I deserve what I'm getting. I know I didn't cause the affair, but I certainly created a lot of the situation that led up to it. This is one of the things that holds me back from taking any actions. I think in her mind, she is thinking you hurt me, now it is your turn. I've learned that we didn't communicate much in the past, which I'm trying to fix, but she fights me all of the time when the communication involves her taking responsibility for anything, not just the affair. As I'm sitting here writing this, I'm realizing it is not the affair that bothers me anymore, it is her cold attitude about it and the remarks she has made.


NO NO AND NO! You did nothing to cause the affair. That was your W choice. The better choice was to work out the marital issues NOT introduce a 3rd party to the marriage to exact some sort of revenge because you did not have the handbook on marriage handling and how to get out of a depression. 

Of course your W is cold. She has no respect for you and appears to care any less for the marriage. 

Time to walk my man.


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## bluefin33 (Aug 9, 2017)

sokillme said:


> May I ask why did you decide to stay with her after she did this terrible thing to you?


I'm a firm believer in second chances, anyone can screw up.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

bluefin33 said:


> I'm a firm believer in second chances, anyone can screw up.


Since you feel like you are the reason this happened (you're wrong by the way) then she didn't give you one.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

You will never find out she is in an affair from her. If you ask her, she will be more on guard to be sure she hides it well.

DO NOT ASK HER about it. Stay calm and do some real investigating.

If she is pretending to reconcile, while maintaining her affair(s), then you know you are really just a means to an end for her. A bill payer and a convenience.

She needs consequences for her actions.

Honestly, being ok with losing her will really be the best way to get her fully back (if that is really what you want).

Do you have access to her phone? iPhone? Time for Dr. Fone....


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

bluefin33 said:


> I think the real problem is the fact that it has all been rugswept and there has been no accountability, let alone effort. I tried to bring it up again a few days ago, but she pretty much blew up, which made me feel bad for even bringing it up. .


She created all the problems that have to do with the affair and needs to listen to your concerns about it if they come up now, or twenty years from now. Rug sweeping is essentially just deferring dealing with it. Eventually after rug sweeping you will realize how bad it is, and that it needs to be dealt with. Sounds like that is now / why you are here.

She should be extremely remorseful for the affair part of it, way more so than you are for the issues that you are owning in the marriage, because what she did was way way worse.

If she thinks it was justified, which it sounds like she does, you have major, likely insurmountable issues to get past. True reconciliation takes both parties doing their part, the betrayed spouse healing, and the wayward spouse doing the heavy lifting to help the betrayed heal.

What you are in currently is False Reconciliation. You think it is getting better in your mind, and you are making a real effort, but the reasons she had the affair are still there, and it can and will happen again... in fact, it is likely happening now. 

You have conditioned that her that it was ok, and she actually thinks it was ok, so why wouldn't she do it again. She can just blame you for it and you will accept the blame, likely being more concerned about not setting her off / rocking the boat with her than the fact some other dude had his penis in her as she was laughing at you.

Sorry to be blunt but have you to see this for what it is...

Can you provide details about the affair? How long? With who (coworker)? Was the other person exposed? Was your wife exposed to family / friends?


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## bluefin33 (Aug 9, 2017)

Yes, rug sweeping was the worst thing I've done. Affair was about 3 months with a co worker out of town. Her family knows. Other person was single so I didn't bother. I pretty much blew up last night and told her everything I've been told here. I think she was a bit shocked. She agreed that she was not doing much, and at least started answering some questions. At this point she is completely aware of what I'm looking for. I never really spelled it out for her. I don't have high hopes, but we'll see where it goes.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Does she and the OM still work together?

How are you sure that the affair ended?

Do you have access to her phone / have you checked it thoroughly?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

bluefin33 said:


> Yes, rug sweeping was the worst thing I've done. Affair was about 3 months with a co worker out of town. Her family knows. Other person was single so I didn't bother. I pretty much blew up last night and told her everything I've been told here. I think she was a bit shocked. She agreed that she was not doing much, and at least started answering some questions. At this point she is completely aware of what I'm looking for. I never really spelled it out for her. I don't have high hopes, but we'll see where it goes.


If you are determined to try to save this then send her to SurvivingInfidelity.com and tell her it's her last chance. At least there there will be some people who give her books and at least try to get her to be introspective. Is the problem your wife, or what she did, because if it's what she did that isn't going to change. She is always going to be the person who did that to you. You have to accept that. Maybe she will be a better person but that won't make what she did go away. If it's the fact that she did it then you are wasting your time.

I read your posts and it's just sad. You would be SO much better off even alone because at least there would be a chance to meet someone decent. Your wife is a terrible wife (to put it nicely) she doesn't deserve to be married to anyone at this point, but I guess you don't see it or maybe you don't feel you are worthy of someone better.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

bluefin33 said:


> Yea, of course kids and money. I think the real problem is the fact that it has all been rugswept and there has been no accountability, let alone effort. I tried to bring it up again a few days ago, but she pretty much blew up, which made me feel bad for even bringing it up. I think it bothers me so much for several reasons. 1. since she is so justified about everything, I fear she would do it again, if she hasn't already. I see a lot that some spouses confess they will never do it again, mine didn't even do that. All she said was I would never cheat on the husband you are now. Guess I better not slip up? 2. I wonder what kind of person she really is - really doesn't seem to care at all about how I feel about it. Can that really be normal? 3. By not addressing things I never feel quite right with her, it is like an elephant in the room, for me anyway. Anyway, I feel like I'm at some breaking point, it is hard to keep going like this. From what I've read, it is impossible to R with her acting like this so I guess we are really in a false R. I'm not trying to say she is a bad person and I do want to make things work, but without her cooperation, I feel doomed. I do believe she thinks everything is just fine between us and can't understand why I can't let it go. I'd love to let it go, but it just isn't working.


You should tell her that she has NO RIGHT to blow up over your questions -- SHE IS THE ONE who cheated, not you. She should answer EVERY SINGLE question you have no matter HOW many times you ask -- she would do that if she was really remorseful. for your own sanity, you should investigate more -- VAR her car, check phone/text/etc., keylogger on her computer. She will continue to brush you off if you have nothing concrete.


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## Yvophi (Oct 4, 2017)

I recommend a book that tells you exactly what a person is going through when they are the one cheating or the one who had an affair, and how the one violated by this should heal and move forward from the affair. Perhaps it will help you deal with the on and off cycles. If interested, I recommend getting it. It's called Us Against the World: How God's love conquers all. 

https://www.amazon.com/Us-Against-W...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=1937741397


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Yvophi said:


> I recommend a book that tells you exactly what a person is going through when they are the one cheating or the one who had an affair, and how the one violated by this should heal and move forward from the affair. Perhaps it will help you deal with the on and off cycles. If interested, I recommend getting it. It's called Us Against the World: How God's love conquers all.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Us-Against-W...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=1937741397


Wow. Eleven posts and all the same.

It is Catherine Harmon, I assume?


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## Yvophi (Oct 4, 2017)

I don't see anything wrong with posting something that made such an impact on helping my own marriage. I thought this was a forum where we could share advice?


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