# Forcing kids into religon, whats your view?



## mentallydrained

I'm curious as to what you may think or have opinion on forcing kids into religon/church.

Brief synopsis: Due to a few years unmarrital bliss, my husband as turned to what he feel is last resort for him self and that is church. He has not been since he was 10. (now 51) He said he was forced through age 10, then when parents divorced they stopped. I too growin up until about age 17, went. Through younger years parents were youth leaders. Then we all slowly stopped. People in the church changed, typical hypocrit/judging etc started up and slowly we just all (except for mom) stopped. Mom was pianoist/organist. She stopped for while and went back.

Anyhow, I believe he is going because a good friend of his, whose faith is pretty strong compared to most we know, went through a divorce a few years ago. They were what I would call church going fools. (not in a bad way) They went every Sunday morning, night, during the week etc. Non-stop. So..in my husbands eyes and others, HOW could someone like that get divorced? They are great friends now, have strong parenting skills even though apart. He has since remarried to another strong faith/church person. So..for me, I'm feeling that is why H is giong. And yes...he's going to thier church..or friend.

Well, not long ago our daughter didn't feel good. Had her big bday party day before..rollerskating! Had many major falls. That same day, there was a major emotional fight and what I feel is abuse to her from my H. That's a whole other thread I have here as well. So..the next day she says to me she doesn't want to go. She doesn't like it and her back really hurts. Which she was very stiff and sore even night before. She has only been 2x and each sat in the adult sermon. We know no one there and non of the kids. She isn't comfortable if not with us. So...I told her I'd stay home with her. Well, H says "if your back hurts that much, probably shouldn't go to grandma's either". It was her actual bday and we were celebrating with family at my moms. I was so mad! So...I talked her into going to save 'peace' with him.

He later tells me he seen this preacher on TV that said you must do what it takes to get your kids involved in church as they will grow up to make terrible decisions, get into trouble etc. I think thats hooey! THAT starts with the parents. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against church or her going. But to say she will grow to be a bad person, make wrong decisions? Ummm...strong faithed people are NOT God and perfect. 

Any how, we tried a different church just once as her school friend goes there. It was okay, and she did join her friend in the kids section. She had gone with her friend one other time during a Wed. night services. She seemed to like it so that's why we tried a Sunday morning services. As we pull into the parking lot she starts crying and says "I dont want to go in there...I don't understand it. I don't understand what they say" and she is sobbing uncontrollable. My heart just bleed for her! WE did explain it was okay that she did not have to understand she was still too young and that even mommy and daddy doesn't understand sometimes.

So...any way...my H has been going for a month now, I've gone with him 3x. Our daughter is aware of God and heaven. She has a childrens Bible that we read to her once in a while. She understands prayers. For most part, I just do not like how H has done this 380 seeking Church to fix our marriage so I know my first issue is resentment. I resent it b/c again...it's me doing what he wants on his terms and with the people he approves. (one of the many issues we have). 

I didn't mean to get off track...I truly was curious as to how other's felt if 'forcing' kids into church and all is healthy? She is 7 and not stupid. Like me, very possibly could start to resent it? Like that Sunday, when she was upset over what I feel was a bribe to make her go...to avoid her getting upset and him then starting in on her because she will start crying and whining, I interven with something to conform to his way to appease him and head off what I feel may turn into anger with him.

She did spend all daycare and preschool (age 6mos. through age 5 before Kindergarten) in a church so again, she does know very basics. Maybe I'm wrong in my thinking. I don't mind going once in a while and I think she would be fine with that too. But the forcing thing, making her go kicking and screaming (not literally......yet!) just not comfortable with that. Definately not comfortable with the thought process of if we don't she will grow up a bad person per say. That is so wrong in my eyes.

Again...curious to thoughts. Thank you.


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## Mom6547

emotionalwreck said:


> He later tells me he seen this preacher on TV that said you must do what it takes to get your kids involved in church as they will grow up to make terrible decisions, get into trouble etc.


Disclaimers necessary here. I think your husband is a mental case, abusive SOB. There is not one piece of judgment that you have expressed about him here that has NOT made me want to throttle some sense into the MoRON.

Disclaimer two: I am a former Catholic forced into church turned atheist.

Whew.

What a load of crapola. In a mentally healthy family, a church can have a very positive effect on the overall development of family. But in the final analysis good parenting is what helps kids to learn the right way. Teaching SKILLS for living life; problem solving, interpersonal. character, integrity, discipline (TEACHING discipline not PUNISHING discipline). 

Furthermore the role of TV evangelicals is to separate you from your money. Their job is to brainwash you into tithing. They are NOT like your local parish/congregation who actually knows or cares about you. It is Big Business for them.






> I think thats hooey! THAT starts with the parents. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against church or her going. But to say she will grow to be a bad person, make wrong decisions? Ummm...strong faithed people are NOT God and perfect.


Amen, sister. 



> Any how, we tried a different church just once as her school friend goes there. It was okay, and she did join her friend in the kids section. She had gone with her friend one other time during a Wed. night services. She seemed to like it so that's why we tried a Sunday morning services. As we pull into the parking lot she starts crying and says "I dont want to go in there...I don't understand it. I don't understand what they say" and she is sobbing uncontrollable. My heart just bleed for her! WE did explain it was okay that she did not have to understand she was still too young and that even mommy and daddy doesn't understand sometimes.


I thought you were dumping his sorry butt. The ONLY thing that is going to come from forcing your child into religion that she doesn't want is
- absolute rejection of your religion
- rebellion against you in general



> So...any way...my H has been going for a month now, I've gone with him 3x. Our daughter is aware of God and heaven. She has a childrens Bible that we read to her once in a while. She understands prayers. For most part, I just do not like how H has done this 380 seeking Church to fix our marriage so I know my first issue is resentment. I resent it b/c again...it's me doing what he wants on his terms and with the people he approves. (one of the many issues we have).


Do you have access to therapy and/ or a domestic violence hot line so you can start reaching out to people who can help you understand how to break free of this pattern?



> I didn't mean to get off track...I truly was curious as to how other's felt if 'forcing' kids into church and all is healthy? She is 7 and not stupid. Like me, very possibly could start to resent it?


It worked so well for me! Not! Yes she will resent it.


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## 827Aug

Well, I've caught some flack from my friends on this one. I have raised my children in a Christian home. However, I'm not going to force them to attend church. That's something they need to decide to do. We want our children attending church for the right reasons. How will they ever experience the joy and peace religion is supposed to bring if they are coerced and threatened to attend church? 

And quiet honestly I don't approve of some of the things which go on in some of the churches. Right now some of the fundamental Christians views don't need to be imparted on my teenagers. I want my children to have an open mind about our world.

I wish you luck with this one! Pray for God's guidance.


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## nice777guy

I would not force her to go - especially if her back was hurting her and it was her birthday.

This last weekend my oldest asked to go - and my youngest asked to stay home - and they both got their way. I honestly wouldn't have gone if the oldest hadn't asked me to take her.

And as far as church helping kids be better people - make better decisions or stay out of trouble - we had a rash of young, unmarried girls become mothers a few years ago. Was a bit sad to hear all of these proud church-going people announcing that their daughters were pregnant when there were no fathers in sight.

Small church - 100 people on a good week. I think I remember 3 or 4 such girls having kids that year.

I think being an involved parent - with or without church - is what makes the difference.


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## F-102

I, like vthomeschoolmom, was also raised catholic, told that if I "strayed", I would turn into a devil-worshipping, drug-addicted serial killer, and that "atheist" and "agnostic" were just nice ways of saying "satanist".
And like her, today I am borderline atheist/agnostic-and I consider myself a fine, upstanding and contributing member of society. I don't drink, smoke, cheat on my wife or my taxes, and I have never been in trouble with the law.
I get people telling me or anyone who will listen that if you don't force your kids to accept god, they will get pregnant, join gangs, take drugs, drop out of school and all sorts of rosy scenarios.
I remember our neighbor down the street: they were bible-thumping Christians who always attributed every thing that happened to them, good or bad, to be the "work of the good lord".
I wonder if they were saying that when all three of their daughters "disappeared" for a year, and their son was arrested for robbing an elderly couple.
But, I remember a certain painting that the preists and nuns all told me about. It was a picture of Jesus knocking on a door, but there was no latch on the door- the artist said that you had to accept Jesus, and open the door, on your own will. I exercised my own will, and I locked the door.
My daughter has no religion, but she is very kind, polite and a straight-A student, and frankly, I don't think one could ask for a better kid.
Now, if she wants to accept religion, that is fine with me-it has to be her decision, not my decision or the decision of someone trying to shame her into it.


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## Blanca

emotionalwreck said:


> He later tells me he seen this preacher on TV that said you must do what it takes to get your kids involved in church as they will grow up to make terrible decisions, get into trouble etc. I think thats hooey! THAT starts with the parents.


Your H is dead wrong! You are right. My mom is devoutly religious. never missed a day of church her entire life and she tried to force me and my siblings to go to church. It was a nightmare.


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## greeneyeddolphin

I am also an atheist, as is my boyfriend. I would never force my children into any religion. I feel that I made my decision. I did my research, looking at a huge variety of options including Christianity, Wicca, Buddhism, etc. I feel that the decision I made was an informed one I am comfortable with. And because I was able to make that decision for myself, I never doubt it. My children are entitled to that same certainty in whatever religion or lack thereof they decide to go with. 

If they wanted to go to church, I would take them. If they decide they are a Christian, I will support them. If they decide they are an atheist like me, I will support them in that as well. It is all their decision. 

I have read your other posts, and I also think your husband is abusive. I also think what he is doing is only going to push her further away from religion and God. You cannot force someone to believe in something if they don't; you cannot get them to be religious by forcing them to do something that makes them uncomfortable. If she believes and attends church, it needs to be because she wants to and she chooses to be there, otherwise it does no good at all.


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## Mom6547

atruckersgirl said:


> I am also an atheist, as is my boyfriend. I would never force my children into any religion.


Or non-religion for that matter. I am a touch anti-organized religion. OK more than a touch. I think a lot of evil is done in the name of a poorly interpreted reading of various religious texts. Religion is as much a force for judgment and division as it is for charity and love.

That said, when my kids ask me, I am very careful not to bad mouth. They have religious relatives. I use statements like "I believe"... and "Christians believe" and "Muslims believe"... or whatever. And try to leave the judgment out of it. Over time, they need to acquire the information to make their own choices.




> I feel that I made my decision. I did my research, looking at a huge variety of options including Christianity, Wicca, Buddhism, etc. I feel that the decision I made was an informed one I am comfortable with.


Wandering a little... I like Buddhism, not so much a religion as a philosophy. I can be an atheistic Buddhist. 



> If they wanted to go to church, I would take them. If they decide they are a Christian, I will support them. If they decide they are an atheist like me, I will support them in that as well. It is all their decision.


What she said.


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## F-102

Her H listened to a preacher on TV? And how much money did he send him?


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## unbelievable

At 7, kids have parents who make decisions for them. If the decision is to go to church, they go to church. If the decision is to go to school, go to the mall, or go to Disneyland, they go. They can be given some age-appropriate decisions, but a 7 year old doesn't decide how the family spends the day. I think the problem here is not that 7 year old doesn't want to participate, but that you and husband aren't on the same religious page. This is why it's generally bad practice to marry outside one's own value/belief system. Your husband has made a very drastic change in his lifestyle and your values/beliefs are probably about the same as when you married. This isn't a decision for a 7 year old but one to be made between a husband and wife. As she gets older, she'll have the autonomy and the information necessary to make heavy decisions. Right now, her job is to be a kid.


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## Mom6547

I do agree with unbelievable that it is appropriate for a 7yo to be expected to church with the family. I think that if he wasn't already causing such issues with her and you, then there would be no force involved. Kids kinda tend to go along with what is going on. The sudden nature of the fanatical church going probably also adds to the friction.


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## greeneyeddolphin

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Or non-religion for that matter. I am a touch anti-organized religion. OK more than a touch. I think a lot of evil is done in the name of a poorly interpreted reading of various religious texts. Religion is as much a force for judgment and division as it is for charity and love.
> 
> That said, when my kids ask me, I am very careful not to bad mouth. They have religious relatives. I use statements like "I believe"... and "Christians believe" and "Muslims believe"... or whatever. And try to leave the judgment out of it. Over time, they need to acquire the information to make their own choices.


I so agree with you here. I do think that people, of all religions (with a few possible exceptions) choose to interpret their religious texts in the way that best suits whatever purpose they have at the moment. 

I also try to leave the judgment and bad mouthing out of it. If I do feel the need to say something bad, I try to limit to a specific thing. For example, that Westboro Baptist Church that makes the news for picketing funerals and such. I despise them, I think it's people like them that make all Christians look bad. And I'm very careful to make sure my kids understand that it's that specific church that I am complaining about, and precisely why I am complaining about them: they don't do anything that seems to have anything to do with Christianity, they disrespect people who've done nothing to deserve it, and they're after nothing but attention and money. I also make it a point to tell my kids this is my opinion, and that they do not have to agree with it.


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## mentallydrained

unbelievable said:


> At 7, kids have parents who make decisions for them. If the decision is to go to church, they go to church. If the decision is to go to school, go to the mall, or go to Disneyland, they go. They can be given some age-appropriate decisions, but a 7 year old doesn't decide how the family spends the day. I think the problem here is not that 7 year old doesn't want to participate, but that you and husband aren't on the same religious page. This is why it's generally bad practice to marry outside one's own value/belief system. Your husband has made a very drastic change in his lifestyle and your values/beliefs are probably about the same as when you married. This isn't a decision for a 7 year old but one to be made between a husband and wife. As she gets older, she'll have the autonomy and the information necessary to make heavy decisions. Right now, her job is to be a kid.


:iagree:
You are completely correct. He has made a very drastic change in seeking religon as his 'saviour' in our marriage. He refuses counsling with exception of his new found pastor. Why? Becuase he believes his pastor (of only 4 weeks) cares for him, that he has nothing to gain out of this unlike someone being paid per hour. Funny, 2 weeks ago when I went to church with him, as we were leaving the pastor said to us, "Now, what are your names again?" On way home H says "that kind of bothers me he didn't remember our names". 

Hmmmm...really? But he cares about you. Now because he called him Sunday, at his home and since the pastor invited to his home on a Sunday afternoon during time his wife was preparing dinner for their family...he feels HE, the pastor, is the right person for the job. Said he made more sense to him in 2 hours than any of the paid counselors. I did ask..'did he make sense to you because he told you what you liked to hear?' He says no, that he did "diagnosis" him with some things he didn't like to hear but they were fixable. 

I don't mind going once in a while. But I am not at a point in my life to make IT my life. He all of sudden is. He watches it on TV now, he even has christian stations preset in truck! Like me in finding this forum, he now sits on computer finding and reading religous sites. He heard something on TV of these class married people can attend. He called the number, looked up the website, etc. Found one of them less than 60miles away wanting us to attend. He's completely flipped his lid, yet I'm the one on meds!!!:rofl: Sorry, if I don't laugh I cry and make myself sick to my stomach.


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## mentallydrained

vthomeschoolmom said:


> I do agree with unbelievable that it is appropriate for a 7yo to be expected to church with the family. I think that if he wasn't already causing such issues with her and you, then there would be no force involved. Kids kinda tend to go along with what is going on. The sudden nature of the fanatical church going probably also adds to the friction.


Yes, all true. She's 7 and not stupid. I'm sure because I do not want to go all the time, she follows suite with mommy. Right or wrong that's just how kids are. If it was reversed, she'd probably do same with daddy.

I have, for so long, conformed to doing what I thought would make him feel better, make him not angry, edgy, or whatever and I already told him, I resent this whole church thing because it's yet just another controll issue. He feels because I grew up with it, I should have no problem going back. I use to sing in choir and as special music in church...he feels I should do that again. Says church will be a good place for me to make friends like I want, meet other women, get my "girls nite/weekends" by way of womens bible study or retreats. WHY...of course it would be as it will be women he approves and feels safe and secure with me being around! Sorry, my sarcasm is getting the best of me. Uggghhhh I'm just so drained. I'm sorry for all this blabbing.


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## nice777guy

> He's completely flipped his lid, yet I'm the one on meds!!!:rofl:


I tend to think that medication has helped a lot more people than organized religion over the last 20-30 years.


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## mentallydrained

Thank you everyone! vthomeschoolmom your first post on this made me smile and laugh! Thank you for that 

I completey understand and know we as parents make the decisions for your children. I get that. Obviously, this all goes deeper than our daughter going to church.

Again, I'm not against, just am not at a point in my life to make it all I need or want. He is now asking as a last resort of effort that we do a couples counseling with pastor. He has already gone once. He ask that I go and speak with him, see how I feel, and then decide if we should go together. Because he blatenly said the pastor won't do seperate counseling, I told H to call and ask him to meet with me on his behalf and then do a couples. Well...he called and informed me we are set to go next week. Together! What happend to just me going? He said preacher doesn't want to do it that way. OH...I see. He cares for you...you can be welcomed into his home, tell your story. I on the other hand, cannot. Yes, resentment with sarcasm. Well, I have decided okay. If this is what they (H and pastor) want, then hope they are ready because I'm to the point of no holding back. I was told in last counseling sessions they wanted to meet with each of individually first, to get idea of where each were emtoionally etc. then combined us. Guess not with this preacher. Right now, I feel I'm going in with both barrells loaded. I know wrong and maybe by next week I'll calm down.

H and I met in a bar. We took country dance lessons for years together. We went out once during week and every Fri. Sat dancing. We did our share of drinking back then, yes. We sometimes would (did until about a year or so ago) go out with other couples to clubs/bar dancing etc. I love to dance! I miss it! So...since these are things I still want to do, do ya really think this preacher is going to understand and agree to it being okay? I guess that's another resentment but of myself as I will be the hypocrit in church. The one who went out to a bar last night had a few drinks, enjoyed herself and is now sitting in church. Heck, he told my H he was wrong in taking his son to Las Vegas a few days and then driving to see his mom in AZ!! He said Vegas is not the place to try and connect with your son. He does not need to be introduced to that kind of environment! Hello! We aren't talking strip clubs and hookers here! Guess out of the thousands of people in Vegas there isn't one Christian or good faithed/hearted people. We should implode that place then. Just kidding. As for seeing his mom, H says his mom will do nothing but an "I told you so" and preacher says due to our situation, he really shouldn't be around someone with more negativity. Forget that he hasn't seen his mother in 3 years.

I'm sorry I'm getting off track of this post. I'm just so frusterated even more so with the development of this meeting the pastor thing etc. I told him this morning we need to wait until after 1st as I don't want the termoil right before Christmas especially with our daughter. She deserves a household of fun, cheer, happiness! Not gloom and doom! He doesn't agree as he says I want this fixed as soon as possible. I told him one meeting is not and will not fix this.

Never thought in million years I'd be here, in this situation, struggling to know, feel, do, and enact on what to do for my own happiness. I'm to place where if I'm a horrible person, selfish, and what ever else I can be labled for not wanting to pursue church the way H is right now then so be it...I am.


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## mentallydrained

F-102 said:


> Her H listened to a preacher on TV? And how much money did he send him?


Really! Haha...I actually was thinking of telling him to look up Earnest (sp?) Angly as right now I'm thinking getting smacked upside the head might do some good in healing!


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## Mom6547

emotionalwreck said:


> Thank you everyone! vthomeschoolmom your first post on this made me smile and laugh! Thank you for that
> 
> I completey understand and know we as parents make the decisions for your children. I get that. Obviously, this all goes deeper than our daughter going to church.
> 
> Again, I'm not against, just am not at a point in my life to make it all I need or want. He is now asking as a last resort of effort that we do a couples counseling with pastor. He has already gone once. He ask that I go and speak with him, see how I feel, and then decide if we should go together. Because he blatenly said the pastor won't do seperate counseling, I told H to call and ask him to meet with me on his behalf and then do a couples. Well...he called and informed me we are set to go next week. Together! What happend to just me going?


He does not want you to say anything that he is not there to control.




> He said preacher doesn't want to do it that way.


That would be the first thing I asked the pastor in the appointment. Out of context or whatever, say nothing. When it is your turn to speak you say "Pastor, DH said you did not want to see me alone. Is this true?" If he answers yes, "why?"



> OH...I see. He cares for you...you can be welcomed into his home, tell your story. I on the other hand, cannot.


If the pastor indicates that this is, in fact, the case, then this is the wrong counselor for the 2 of you.



> Yes, resentment with sarcasm. Well, I have decided okay. If this is what they (H and pastor) want, then hope they are ready because I'm to the point of no holding back. I was told in last counseling sessions they wanted to meet with each of individually first, to get idea of where each were emtoionally etc. then combined us. Guess not with this preacher.


Do not assume it really IS the preacher.



> Right now, I feel I'm going in with both barrells loaded. I know wrong and maybe by next week I'll calm down.


Wrong is irrelevant. It is ineffective. Show the preacher that you are 
- calm, cool and collected
- not the mental case your DH has almost certainly portrayed you as
- capable of solving problems and communicating



> H and I met in a bar. We took country dance lessons for years together. We went out once during week and every Fri. Sat dancing. We did our share of drinking back then, yes. We sometimes would (did until about a year or so ago) go out with other couples to clubs/bar dancing etc. I love to dance! I miss it! So...since these are things I still want to do, do ya really think this preacher is going to understand and agree to it being okay?


Why wouldn't he? Is there something morally wrong about dancing?



> I guess that's another resentment but of myself as I will be the hypocrit in church. The one who went out to a bar last night had a few drinks, enjoyed herself and is now sitting in church.


You are in a church that considers dancing wrong? Having a moderate amount to drink is wrong? I would not choose to go to that church.



> Never thought in million years I'd be here, in this situation, struggling to know, feel, do, and enact on what to do for my own happiness. I'm to place where if I'm a horrible person, selfish, and what ever else I can be labled for not wanting to pursue church the way H is right now then so be it...I am.


Who cares what anyone else labels you. Can you remind me again why you are still playing this man's game? Why not find a counselor, not this pastor, who can help YOU to gain some clarity on this situation and stop singing his tune.


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## 827Aug

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Why wouldn't he? Is there something morally wrong about dancing?
> 
> 
> You are in a church that considers dancing wrong? Having a moderate amount to drink is wrong? I would not choose to go to that church.


I'm thinking you are in the wrong church too. Sounds like a lot of ignorance at work controlling people to me. What qualifications does this minister have?


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## Mom6547

827Aug said:


> I'm thinking you are in the wrong church too. Sounds like a lot of ignorance at work controlling people to me. What qualifications does this minister have?


Also bear in mind that, unless you are hearing this yourself in sermons, if it is the word of your husband, he may be making it up.


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## mentallydrained

> Quote:
> He said preacher doesn't want to do it that way.
> 
> That would be the first thing I asked the pastor in the appointment. Out of context or whatever, say nothing. When it is your turn to speak you say "Pastor, DH said you did not want to see me alone. Is this true?" If he answers yes, "why


Thank you, I didn't think of that but I will. If I do this. I have such mixed resentful and angered emotions right now that I shouldn't even go at this point.



> Quote:
> Right now, I feel I'm going in with both barrells loaded. I know wrong and maybe by next week I'll calm down.
> 
> Wrong is irrelevant. It is ineffective. Show the preacher that you are
> - calm, cool and collected
> - not the mental case your DH has almost certainly portrayed you as
> - capable of solving problems and communicating


I understand and do know this. I have felt to be 100% blame for so long in this, I've somewhat taken on the likings of my DH in reacting I guess.



> Quote:
> H and I met in a bar. We took country dance lessons for years together. We went out once during week and every Fri. Sat dancing. We did our share of drinking back then, yes. We sometimes would (did until about a year or so ago) go out with other couples to clubs/bar dancing etc. I love to dance! I miss it! So...since these are things I still want to do, do ya really think this preacher is going to understand and agree to it being okay?
> 
> Why wouldn't he? Is there something morally wrong about dancing?
> 
> Quote:
> I guess that's another resentment but of myself as I will be the hypocrit in church. The one who went out to a bar last night had a few drinks, enjoyed herself and is now sitting in church.
> 
> You are in a church that considers dancing wrong? Having a moderate amount to drink is wrong? I would not choose to go to that church.


 I'm miss speaking on this. The preacher may not disagree. I am basing it off of him saying my DH should not be in Vegas with his son due to what he "may get introduced to." Maybe I should suggest my DH take his 28yr old son to Disney Land. I'm sure the pastor would approve of that. Haha..joking. I'm preconceiving due to the environment I would be in should I go out and do these kinds of things once in a while. 



> Who cares what anyone else labels you. Can you remind me again why you are still playing this man's game? Why not find a counselor, not this pastor, who can help YOU to gain some clarity on this situation and stop singing his tune.


 Maybe subconciously I don't want it to be viewed as if I myself did not try and do all I can? I honestly cannot give a straight answer. I know my heart has felt what is right for thing for me on several different occassions. Yet, I still, mentally, allow the guilt to overrule. I'm struggling with that, so obviously I need deeper resources. Financially I cannot pay for counseling that is why I'm exhausting myself on the internet searching. Hence how I found everyone here. I also have had this misconceived notion that DH and I were stronger in our relationship than to end this ugly and vindictive. Sadly, I feel it deep in my soul that is exactly how this all will come to an end. AND...that with my daughter I fear will eat me alive. I sometimes want to ask her how she would feel if daddy and mommy lived in seperate houses, yet I don't want to plant the seed either.


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## Mom6547

emotionalwreck said:


> Maybe subconciously I don't want it to be viewed as if I myself did not try and do all I can?


I know many people don't agree with this. But acquiring the ability not to care how others viewed me was one of the most liberating thing that I ever was able to do. *I* have higher moral standards than anyone I know. So if *I* don't look to myself like a bad person to myself, then if I do to someone else they must not know what they heck is going on. I am guessing you also have a high standard for yourself from your posts.




> I honestly cannot give a straight answer. I know my heart has felt what is right for thing for me on several different occassions. Yet, I still, mentally, allow the guilt to overrule. I'm struggling with that, so obviously I need deeper resources.


Yes indeed. The guilt is a necessary component of keeping you in line. (And for the record not all abusers know or always know that that is what they are doing. Some do. Some play the game on purpose. But some just have the instinct for what works.) You have been fed and encouraged your fault, blame and guilt because it keeps you off your toes and open to manipulation.



> Financially I cannot pay for counseling that is why I'm exhausting myself on the internet searching. Hence how I found everyone here.


Have you looked into domestic abuse resources? Almost ALL of them have resources for those who cannot afford to pay, even if in the form of the hot line.




> I also have had this misconceived notion that DH and I were stronger in our relationship than to end this ugly and vindictive. Sadly, I feel it deep in my soul that is exactly how this all will come to an end. AND...that with my daughter I fear will eat me alive. I sometimes want to ask her how she would feel if daddy and mommy lived in seperate houses, yet I don't want to plant the seed either.


I think that is a mistake. That is too much pressure to put on her. She is a child. You are the mother, no matter how hard it is right now to be that. 

I wonder (the needle on this record player keeps skipping!  ) have you found the local domestic abuse shelter/resources/hot line number in your yellow pages?

Keep us posted.


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## pickledginger

As someone who was forced to attend religious services as a child, I can say that all it did was chase me away from organized religion in general. When I was about 12 or 13 I made enough of a stink about going that my dad just didn't try to drag me anymore, but the emotional games he played to try to guilt me into going have never stopped. I am now 25 and to this day my dad preaches to me and scolds me for not "honoring god". It has become even worse since I've had our daughter, because he now uses the "you are responsible for this child's soul" arguement.

I did my fair share of stupid things when I was a teenager. I had sex, drank, tried drugs... but I honestly think that most people do at least a few bad things when they are in high school and/or college. I had to learn from my own mistakes, and I believe that is the strongest lesson one can learn.

I don't think it is right for your husband to try to force the subject with your daughter. It will most likely only drive her farther away from him, and take it from me, it's not a situation anyone likes. I wish I had a stronger relationship with my father, but I am confident in saying that it was/is his constant nagging and judging that has driven us apart.

I suggest giving your daughter a bible and letting her take her own direction to god. if she feels that church has a place in her life then she will go. that's the only way she'll find any meaning in it anyway. otherwise it's just a punishment and she'll reject it.


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## michzz

OK, presuming the church is a legit, caring organization, then the kinds of things your husband is doing is totally out of line--in the context of a Christian fellowship.

And you should be able to approach any pastor, church elder, etc. and find out their specific beliefs and whether or not you share in them. You should also be able to find out what their beliefs are regarding children and husbands and wives.

They likely have brochures too.

From what you described, your husband has found a way to manipulate you and your family through this new-found church.

And regarding your daughter. It seems to me that he didn't believe she hurt her back because if she was well enough to go to grandma's she ought to be well enough to go to church--in his way of thinking.

His capacity for cruelty trumps his religiosity. Banning her from grandma's on her birthday? Wow, "what would Jesus do?" would have been my question to him.

There are some churches that teach that a man's family has to do whatever he says because he is the leader of his family.

However, the problem is nobody else signed up for this church's teaching but him. Bullying you and the children is not leading.

The man is confused. The point of leading is to set a good example and mirror Christlike behavior. He's mirroring Napoleonic behavior.

If he has become extreme lately, why is that? What has changed in his life?


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## Mom6547

michzz said:


> OK, presuming the church is a legit, caring organization, then the kinds of things your husband is doing is totally out of line--in the context of a Christian fellowship.


Once again, michzz says it right. :iagree:

Ok resisted the urge to pepper this post with little I agree emoticons. But I do. Michzz is spot on.


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## mentallydrained

*vthomeschoolmom*


> I know many people don't agree with this. But acquiring the ability not to care how others viewed me was one of the most liberating thing that I ever was able to do. *I* have higher moral standards than anyone I know. So if *I* don't look to myself like a bad person to myself, then if I do to someone else they must not know what they heck is going on. I am guessing you also have a high standard for yourself from your posts.


Okay, stupid question here...is this a bad thing? 



> I wonder (the needle on this record player keeps skipping! ) have you found the local domestic abuse shelter/resources/hot line number in your yellow pages?


 No. Maybe I'm still in partial denial of being abused feeling these resourses are for the more severe who need and deserve them that are beaten to a pulp and truly cannot get out. I guess I'm feeling since it's emotional...there is no reason to go to such lengths as this should be something I can pull myself out of easily. Although, I'm obviously not doing so well at that either. I feel so ashamed sort of. My dad would not be proud! In fact, one thing/reason my DH said why he married me is becuase I was the first women to stand up to one of his friends who does nothing but belittle women (his wife/daughter included). This guy would make comments to me so rude and disrespectful and I dished it right back and then some! I made sure he knew I was not going to stand for his actions with me regardless of him and my DH (not hubby at time) being good friends. I did it right back infront of crowds of people as well as he thougth that made him the 'big' man! He would tell stories to crowds of people how "if I only spent 50cents for a rubber I wouldn't have this issue" blah blah...Oh ya and that's actually tame compared to other things! That spark...fire...I've lost. Obviously since I'm feeling I need to 'do what is asked of me' to prove I'm not a failure.

Also, I definately do not want DD involved or stressed. I wouldn't ask, but the thought enters my mind all the time. I fear once I take that final step, that's when I will need strength more than ever for her. Which reminds me what last counselor said to me, "your DH has two trump cards inpocket and depending on what card you lead with, will depend on what one he plays." Well...I'm not very excited about knowing what the other card may be....I'm not liking this one as it is! Not to mention I'm terrible at Ucher anyway...and never have played poker! So I'm feel I'm in a lose lose here.


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## mentallydrained

michzz said:


> OK, presuming the church is a legit, caring organization, then the kinds of things your husband is doing is totally out of line--in the context of a Christian fellowship.
> 
> And you should be able to approach any pastor, church elder, etc. and find out their specific beliefs and whether or not you share in them. You should also be able to find out what their beliefs are regarding children and husbands and wives.
> 
> They likely have brochures too.
> 
> From what you described, your husband has found a way to manipulate you and your family through this new-found church.
> 
> And regarding your daughter. It seems to me that he didn't believe she hurt her back because if she was well enough to go to grandma's she ought to be well enough to go to church--in his way of thinking.
> 
> His capacity for cruelty trumps his religiosity. Banning her from grandma's on her birthday? Wow, "what would Jesus do?" would have been my question to him.
> 
> There are some churches that teach that a man's family has to do whatever he says because he is the leader of his family.
> 
> However, the problem is nobody else signed up for this church's teaching but him. Bullying you and the children is not leading.
> 
> The man is confused. The point of leading is to set a good example and mirror Christlike behavior. He's mirroring Napoleonic behavior.
> 
> If he has become extreme lately, why is that? What has changed in his life?


michzz: If he has become extreme lately, why is that? What has changed in his life? 


The change is me. Very long story with many many scenarios, but in short, as short as I can, I have grown. Grown out of my marriage as far as I understand it and feel. We are 11yrs apart and he is very content, complacent, and I am not ready for that. We started out for years connected at hip. I worshiped him, put him on pedestal, and when I joined Facebook one day, reconnecting with old classmates, he despised it as one day I ask him if he mind I went out of town with an old friend (girl). We planned going shopping, staying the night and going out to a club dancing then coming home next day. This was an hour away from our house. He went balistic! Reason being, supposedly he knew some history by way of working with her spouse they were swingers. I told him that is there lifestyle not ours/mine and he should trust me, which he did, says does, but is very intimidated saying these 'friends' are infringing on his family and doesn't like it. Well...that just started a domino affect with many other things which led to bring up past resentments between the two of us back over 9yrs ago. He actually during a major blow up was first to through out the "D" word on several occasions. It never ever came to mine until I started learning more and more about myself through counseling and learning more about him. This has been a 12 month roller coaster but on a 9yr ride that I'm just now figuring out and surfacing. Since I've come 'clean' in that I feel I"ve grown out of this marraige....he's gone to extreme now with religon as his last resort. And...quick side note, he said me and our DD is all he needs in his life. He needs nothing else. I cannot say the same back which has created many more complications.

So, in a nutshell, my nutshell that I've created...that is the change in his life. His change is the fact I have changed and he doesn't like it nor want to work with it...unless his terms. My thought is the religon/preacher, that maybe he feels since the things I feel I'm missing and want would not be 'approved' by them...make him feel better or at least he hopes would not be approved. I want to be able to have outside friends, maybe a girls night out which yes, would include a drink or two and maybe a club dancing. He has no reason to not trust me and admits that. His justification is that since I have low self esteem, a man, such as himself, would pick up on that and take advantage and who knows what and how I would feel and act on. He says that's how he would be so he knows it would happen. Many other things I could go on about, but those are few items.


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## Mom6547

emotionalwreck said:


> *vthomeschoolmom*Okay, stupid question here...is this a bad thing?


Why is what a bad thing? Caring what people think of you? Well by itself it isn't. For instance, I would like my mother to think highly of me. I value her and he opinion. But if one cares too much about every Tom, **** and Harry, it interferes with honest judgment. By worrying about what people think, you limit your choices and remove focus from what is morally right, what is in your best interest and the interest of your child. Or at least runs the risk. They don't have the information that you do. And no matter how good of people they may be, they aren't in your shoes.



> No. Maybe I'm still in partial denial of being abused feeling these resourses are for the more severe who need and deserve them that are beaten to a pulp and truly cannot get out.


As a former domestic abuse volunteer, it is my experience that they would disagree with you. And in the final analysis, what difference does it make. You and your daughter need a point of view that you can trust.




> I guess I'm feeling since it's emotional...there is no reason to go to such lengths as this should be something I can pull myself out of easily.


What lengths? Picking up the phone? I do that daily, and I am terribly phone phobic.



> Although, I'm obviously not doing so well at that either. I feel so ashamed sort of. My dad would not be proud!


Is your father deceased as mine is? I can't speak for your Dad. I don't know him or his values. But I CAN say I am not ashamed of you. I am very proud. Your strength and your concern for your daughter demonstrate that you are a person of great quality.




> In fact, one thing/reason my DH said why he married me is becuase I was the first women to stand up to one of his friends who does nothing but belittle women (his wife/daughter included). This guy would make comments to me so rude and disrespectful and I dished it right back and then some! I made sure he knew I was not going to stand for his actions with me regardless of him and my DH (not hubby at time) being good friends. I did it right back infront of crowds of people as well as he thougth that made him the 'big' man! He would tell stories to crowds of people how "if I only spent 50cents for a rubber I wouldn't have this issue" blah blah...Oh ya and that's actually tame compared to other things! That spark...fire...I've lost. Obviously since I'm feeling I need to 'do what is asked of me' to prove I'm not a failure.


Ah the fear of being a failure. Hate it. I am a failure. All the time. It is part of being a human being, to fail. Your spark is still there. You are here because your spark is still there.With time, faith and your continued search for the right way, you will find your spark again.




> Also, I definately do not want DD involved or stressed. I wouldn't ask, but the thought enters my mind all the time. I fear once I take that final step, that's when I will need strength more than ever for her. Which reminds me what last counselor said to me, "your DH has two trump cards inpocket and depending on what card you lead with, will depend on what one he plays." Well...I'm not very excited about knowing what the other card may be....


That sounds like a fool's game. It sure does not sound like a marriage.



> I'm not liking this one as it is! Not to mention I'm terrible at Ucher anyway...and never have played poker! So I'm feel I'm in a lose lose here.


Well I hope you can find someone to reach out to beside some dope on the internet who can see YOU and your side of things. I fear for you seeking solutions through your husband.


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## michzz

emotionalwreck said:


> I want to be able to have outside friends, maybe a girls night out which yes, would include a drink or two and maybe a club dancing. He has no reason to not trust me and admits that. His justification is that since I have low self esteem, a man, such as himself, would pick up on that and take advantage and who knows what and how I would feel and act on.


This is the only part of his concerns that I kind of agree with him. Despite your trustworthiness, add in booze and dancing with random men who really do want to bed you is a big risk to your self control. You would be willfully naive to think otherwise.

However, I can see that you two have grown apart. Is that likely to change? Not if your interests are so different.


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## Mom6547

michzz said:


> This is the only part of his concerns that I kind of agree with him. Despite your trustworthiness, add in booze and dancing with random men who really do want to bed you is a big risk to your self control. You would be willfully naive to think otherwise.


Pshaw. I think that is silly. She said a drink or two, not a bottle. Seriously most women learn how to handle men who want to get in their pants when they are still in pinafore.


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## michzz

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Pshaw. I think that is silly. She said a drink or two, not a bottle. Seriously most women learn how to handle men who want to get in their pants when they are still in pinafore.


I am sure you are right about most women--if they are happy in their marriage. I know from personal experience what a couple of drinks and dancing led to for my own wife.

And I'm not really saying don't do it. Just don't be surprised when a situation she didn't expect to occur--does. A test of will power on the dance floor when a little tipsy.


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## Mom6547

michzz said:


> I am sure you are right about most women--if they are happy in their marriage. I know from personal experience what a couple of drinks and dancing led to for my own wife.


Yah. The underlying issue is not the drinking nor the dancing. But I do hear what you are saying.


> And I'm not really saying don't do it. Just don't be surprised when a situation she didn't expect to occur--does. A test of will power on the dance floor when a little tipsy.


Does it make me evil to like turning this sort of thing down? Test of will, indeed! I am woman, hear me roar!


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## mentallydrained

michzz said:


> I am sure you are right about most women--if they are happy in their marriage. I know from personal experience what a couple of drinks and dancing led to for my own wife.
> 
> And I'm not really saying don't do it. Just don't be surprised when a situation she didn't expect to occur--does. A test of will power on the dance floor when a little tipsy.


michzz....I understand the whole self esteem men trying to bed me idea/concept when alchole is involved. I am a responsible person. Just like DH liking my firery attitude earlier on....when it comes to those kinds of situations, I do feel I can handle myself. Guess my resentment on this topic with him is he tells me he may not have a problem with it, if it were someone he liked who had better values and respect for him. First off, this friend I referenced, not sure where he gets she disrespects him as a human being. His 'respect' is non of her business when it's comes to what her and her husband do. Second, I do have a friend, not close but keep in touch once in while...that he does like according to her family values, etc. She ask me not long ago just do dinner. All clear because he likes her, she's a wonderful mother of 2 and a teacher, and strong family values...correct? That's what he likes in a person for me to 'hange out with'. Well, went to dinner after work, came home 8ish...and before we go to bed what do I get? Question after question and then here....oh....wait for it...here it comes......BAM! He says "I admit, my mind has been going all night long wondering if you were talking about divorce and and asking her how her kids dealt with it etc..." REALLY???? Yes, she has been divorced for 5 years, loves her life has very well mannered and behaved kids and NOW...she's on the 'don't care so much for me to hang out with.' And that was just DINNER! 

I understand the temptation issues, etc. I honestly do. It has jsut come down to the fact there isn't ONE person he feels won't enter our family and disrupt it as he puts it. He has grown to be extremely jealous. Maybe that is our age difference? He says not. I however, have grown to be not jealous. He does not like that. He wishes I were still jealous.


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## michzz

Your husband is way insecure. Yup.


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## mentallydrained

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Pshaw. I think that is silly. She said a drink or two, not a bottle. Seriously most women learn how to handle men who want to get in their pants when they are still in pinafore.


Correct, not talking drunk. Never ever have been permiscuous. I do have my dad's ******* attitude! Haha...he would always say...."watchout when hillbilly get's the reda$$" (he called me hillbilly or sissy) He's deceased now and I SOOOO need him right now. I'd love to curl up and cry on him! 

In fact, on several occasions my DH in our earlier courtship years, (courtship of 6 yrs! that should have been 1st clue!) there were several occastions DH would get baligerant drunk acting all sexual and stuff with me in public. OH would that tick me off! I like affection in public, not sloppy ravishing. I locked him out of his own home I was so mad. Dropped him off left with his keys he slept on patio furniture...in the rain! That sense of self, or maybe confident attitude(?) is what I miss. Not liking the feel I have to abide, listen, and do what asked and told just to feel I'm not a failure or dissapointment to what was a commitment and vows.


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## LLisa

I think it is good for children to have a religion. That is 100% true. 

What is not good is how your dh is going about it. If he is so in to getting her in to a religion, then he needs to behave how the religion he choses teaches him to behave. He needs to find a children friendly church. He needs to get involved and take her to the youth activities and do what he can to foster those relationships. He needs to walk the walk.

He is not forcing her in to a religion..he is forcing her in to a building to attend a meeting for adults. That is completely different. He is using religion as an excuse. He obviously does not care much about this religion as he is not even trying to make it about family or about the children or even about whatever the religion he has chosen teaches.


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## RandomDude

Missus and I are currently in the process of discussing this issue (thankfully without curses and miscellaneous throwing objects this time). Turned out that the real problems at least for us was really outside of the church.


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## mentallydrained

RandomDude said:


> Missus and I are currently in the process of discussing this issue (thankfully without curses and miscellaneous throwing objects this time). Turned out that the real problems at least for us was really outside of the church.


Ours is too and he knows that but is hoping the 'church' will fix it. IMO, I feel he is using Church in completely wrong manner. But, what do I know. If I was so confident in my answers/thinking, I wouldn't be in this perdicument.


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## RandomDude

!!!
You're in the same shoes I was just in!


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## F-102

Sounds like he's using the church to take care of things so that he doesn't have to face them.


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## RandomDude

Playing god was an act of desperation, at least for us.


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## mentallydrained

_*F-120 & RandomDude *_--- Yes,that is how I feel, that he doesn't want to face them. It's in Gods hands and he will lead him/us to do whats right. Again, I have my beliefs but when I say he is going to church and is finding or relying on God for the wrong reasons, he looks right through me with a blank stare. Maybe wrong words I used that he is relying on God for wrong reason...he is getting into religion the wrong way and in the wrong frame of mind I guess. 

Oh heck, I know what I mean...just don't know how to say it.


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## Mom#2Bliss

I just saw this post, and am responding to the original thread. 

We went to church randomly when we were kids, my grandpa would have forced us to go if he could, but my mom and dad said we could go to church or not, it was up to us. We chose not to, occasionally going with the family on Christmas and Easter. We both turned out fine. 

Our best friends growing up since we were 5yrs old (32 now) were a mormon family, and went to church EVERY week and often more than that. They were banned from doing many things, and not allowed to play outside at all on Sundays. 
They had 5 children who were forced against their wishes to attend church and follow the Book of Mormon. Their parents often told my brother and I we were bad influences because we did not go to church, they told their children to pick different friends, etc... at my age I didn't understand the ignorance, it was just hurtful. 

As the years went on...Their oldest stayed with the church, married in the temple, etc. Their 2nd oldest became severly depressed, often running away from home at the age of 14 on, and is now diagnosed as bi-polar with severe anger issues, my best friend the 3rd child ended up dating (non-mormon) some really shady characters and going to raves, and doing ecstacy, and is now an emotional wreck. The 4th child is addicted to steroids, and alcohol and has been in treatment homes quite a few times, and their youngest daughter rebelled and is seen often at the age of 14 (now) getting picked up by a car full of men late late late at night, and her parents often don't know she snuck out. 4/5 of their children severly rebelled in a bad way.

I saw their mom at the grocery store one day, she hugged me, started crying and stated "Can you talk to S____daughters name)? You are doing so good, and I hope you can have some influence on her" I took this time to tell her how ironic it was that when I was young and didn't understand her being ignorant and telling a child that I was a bad influence, she didn't understand the hurt she caused, and how church doesn't make you a good or bad person, it's your upbringing and if you choose to have God in your life whether in or out of church should not matter. She stated she was sorry and told me how wrong she was. 

I choose God, I pray, I read, I just do not believe you need to be inside of a building to do so. 

My story I guess is to say, do not force church on your child. If they do not want to go, and make that clear, they will only rebel when they are older, and you will lose that connection with them by making them do something they are not comfortable with. Good Luck


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## F-102

There was a family in my hometown, husband died, so mom turned to religion and forced her kids. Took her bible with her everywhere, dragged the kids to church, said things like "God will be very angry if you don't go to church, and after she wore them down and had them "brainwashed", (I would see them making the rounds of the neighborhood , ringing doorbells for their church), she would say how proud she was of her angels for living the way god wanted them to, and proud of herself for raising them right.

Shortly after Thanksgiving in 1984, her two angels strangled her and dumped her body in a creek.


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## SimplyAmorous

I disliked church when I was a little kid, just found it boring , I was an only child , kinda shy & we went somewhere where I did not know any of the kids. I used to give my parents a hard time about it. Eventually they stopped going, and divorced. 

Then when I got older , a friend from School wanted me to go to her youth group, now this was a very different experience as I wanted to do, I knew some people there & I think the social aspect of it drew me in. Her family used to take me every week. My father & step Mom had no interest in church but they figured "Hey, this will keep her out of trouble" this can work for us. 

And it did, for the most, part, steer me towards a moral path in life. Other than I listened to "highway to hell, I was forever conflicted on things I enjoyed & what the church taught. I DO believe it matters the type of people kids hang with in life. 

BUT Poeple do NOT have to be Church goers to be GOOD decent respectable model citizens, good friends and faithful spouses . The people I admire MOST in my life , infact just getting ready to go to a water park with the Mom & her family, has never went to church, they are the best parents I ever encountered, and rarely judgemental.

I just had a run with with some christian friends at my house , I thought we had a good time talking, then one of them goes home & hours later sends me a FB message retracting some of the things she said in the moment , and making me feel like SCUM, judgement written all over it. I need to put a duct tape over my mouth when christians are around, I tend to open myself up to judgement, and frankly, I think I am a fine Mother & wife, and friend. 

Let them judge.

I feel if your child does not want to go and you force them , it will do more damage than good.


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## mentallydrained

Mom#2Bliss said:


> I just saw this post, and am responding to the original thread.
> 
> We went to church randomly when we were kids, my grandpa would have forced us to go if he could, but my mom and dad said we could go to church or not, it was up to us. We chose not to, occasionally going with the family on Christmas and Easter. We both turned out fine.
> 
> Our best friends growing up since we were 5yrs old (32 now) were a mormon family, and went to church EVERY week and often more than that. They were banned from doing many things, and not allowed to play outside at all on Sundays.
> They had 5 children who were forced against their wishes to attend church and follow the Book of Mormon. Their parents often told my brother and I we were bad influences because we did not go to church, they told their children to pick different friends, etc... at my age I didn't understand the ignorance, it was just hurtful.
> 
> As the years went on...Their oldest stayed with the church, married in the temple, etc. Their 2nd oldest became severly depressed, often running away from home at the age of 14 on, and is now diagnosed as bi-polar with severe anger issues, my best friend the 3rd child ended up dating (non-mormon) some really shady characters and going to raves, and doing ecstacy, and is now an emotional wreck. The 4th child is addicted to steroids, and alcohol and has been in treatment homes quite a few times, and their youngest daughter rebelled and is seen often at the age of 14 (now) getting picked up by a car full of men late late late at night, and her parents often don't know she snuck out. 4/5 of their children severly rebelled in a bad way.
> 
> I saw their mom at the grocery store one day, she hugged me, started crying and stated "Can you talk to S____daughters name)? You are doing so good, and I hope you can have some influence on her" I took this time to tell her how ironic it was that when I was young and didn't understand her being ignorant and telling a child that I was a bad influence, she didn't understand the hurt she caused, and how church doesn't make you a good or bad person, it's your upbringing and if you choose to have God in your life whether in or out of church should not matter. She stated she was sorry and told me how wrong she was.
> 
> I choose God, I pray, I read, I just do not believe you need to be inside of a building to do so.
> 
> My story I guess is to say, do not force church on your child. If they do not want to go, and make that clear, they will only rebel when they are older, and you will lose that connection with them by making them do something they are not comfortable with. Good Luck


Thank you for your time reading and sharing. I am of the same character. When young, made to go. Mom and dad were even youth leaders. Now, granted back then 30 years ago...lots of kids my age and ya, it was kinda of fun. But that same church now, they don't even have a youth group. All elders. I too choose God, believe in prayer, love some of the gosples and music, but..for some reason I have grown, I guess, to where I do not want to feel my beliefs are only 'true' if I practice them under roof of the church. Our daughter is NOT comfortable at all and when we do go, her in tow, she hates it. She deals with it, sits with us, but yes, bored out of her mind and later always tells me "I hate church". She even whispered to me one time "I wish daddy would have never found that church". I just say, "I know but it does make daddy happy when we go once in a while". I feel that's wrong, but yet, I'm still of one to please the other over myself.

The church is not even in our city. It's a 25 minute drive and she knows not one single child. In fact, I myself, don't feel comfortable for her. These are children of doctor's, lawyers, the majority go to private school in area or the more 'ritzy' public school. I sound like I'm judging and that's not my intent by any means. It truly is a different calaber of people. Yes, some are very nice and I'm sure the kids are too, please don't take me the wrong way or start writing me hate mail.  I can't put my finger on it. She understands heaven, God, and prayer. She literaly freaks if H says "you need to go downstairs with the kids'. Her eyes fill with tears and she looks at me like "no mommy no'. So, I've told him, if he that is the church he chooses, and we all go as family, if she is only comfortable by sitting with us, then that's the way it has to be.

He is okay with that, but it still leaves some tension I feel. I just don't know what to do.


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## mentallydrained

*SimplyAmorous & F-102 * Thanks for your input. I know religion is a very very sensitive topic for people/families/marriages, etc. H to this day, says he doesn't get why I have such an issue with it. I honesty cannot figure out any words to say that make any sense what so ever. Other than, I have been down that road personally, and just do not have that desire. I also find it very odd that this good friend of H's whom was one of main reasons H started this church, doesn't contact him much any more. There for first few months H was going, they were in contact at least 2 times a week if not more. They would talk about get together's etc. Then all of a sudden that stopped. Maybe becuase H and I are getting some what back on path in our marraige? Maybe because I'm working on trying to like myself so I can love my H more? I don't know I just find it odd how it just completely stopped. No, I know H told him about me posting here and I know he told H he should cut his losses with me. Maybe since I have turned to realize I obvsiouly have someting underlying to still work at and for in this marriage, this friend things H is wrong for still working on it? No clue and I'm the person who will analyze it to death, so I'll just quit now.

Many say if church is what 'we' want, we should find one dd is comfortable. Only way that will happen is to go to one she knows kids. Kids she goes to school with. Well, we tried that, H didn't like it. And, dd the second time we went, cried in parking lot as she said she didn't like it as she didn't understand it (the class she was in with her little friend). Then, there is one other church I know one of her little friends go to that is right up H's alley (contempory, can where jeans, even drink coffee during service) but he won't go says too big. No personal feel with pastors like this one. So...feel I"m at mercy of what he decides and have to make work some how. But I can't. I'm exhausted trying to appease him and dd. I try so very hard when it comes to situations that I know either he will like she won't or visa versa and I try so hard to make those sitautions work for them both, like a compromise. But I can't do it. I do it on so many occasions, I guess the 'church' is where I draw the line. Hence...mentally drianed.


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## F-102

Your H's toxic friend realized that your H wasn't going to bite so easily, i.e., he wasn't "lost" enough, and he gave up on your H to find someone more gullible.


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## Soupnutz

I wont force my kids to do anything they don't want to do (within reason). As far as religion, I'm a spiritual person but don't necessarily believe in god and don't practice a religion. My wife was raised a Jehovah's Witness but hasn't practiced it in a long time, she wants to get back into some kind of religion but not sure exactly what. Her parents are still jehovah's witnesses. Sometimes my kids like to visit them and go to the service with them, as long as they want to go it doesn't bother me, and I will never force them to. Oh yeah, theres 3 children, ages 8, 6, and 3. But my wifes cousin took them out for the day and later told us that the 8 year old was really sad. When she talked to her about it she was told that grandma said, "mommy and daddy were going to burn for eternity", and that we wouldn't be able to see each other after we died. I was pretty pissed when I was told about this. My wife talked me into holding my tongue and not saying anything about, but how can you tell an 8 year old something like that. She doesn't go over there as much to go to the service since then, but the two younger still like to. I won't tell them they have to, or that they can't if they want to.


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## F-102

I'd be pissed, too.


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## mentallydrained

Soupnutz said:


> I wont force my kids to do anything they don't want to do (within reason). As far as religion, I'm a spiritual person but don't necessarily believe in god and don't practice a religion. My wife was raised a Jehovah's Witness but hasn't practiced it in a long time, she wants to get back into some kind of religion but not sure exactly what. Her parents are still jehovah's witnesses. Sometimes my kids like to visit them and go to the service with them, as long as they want to go it doesn't bother me, and I will never force them to. Oh yeah, theres 3 children, ages 8, 6, and 3. But my wifes cousin took them out for the day and later told us that the 8 year old was really sad. When she talked to her about it she was told that grandma said, "mommy and daddy were going to burn for eternity", and that we wouldn't be able to see each other after we died. I was pretty pissed when I was told about this. My wife talked me into holding my tongue and not saying anything about, but how can you tell an 8 year old something like that. She doesn't go over there as much to go to the service since then, but the two younger still like to. I won't tell them they have to, or that they can't if they want to.


Wow....that would be very difficult. If my spouse ask me to not say anytihng, then they better say something to his/her parent because I definately could NOT let that go unattended. Sorry to hear this was said to children. So not right.


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## RandomDude

Wow this thread is oldish... anyways glad that the missus has laid off with her religious dramas this year. Still, as much as I love her if she brings up the issues again she's heading out the door (again). Our daughter deserves her own choice once she is ready to make her own decision, already compromised enough by even allowing the missus to take her to church.


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