# Difficulty with arousal / desire



## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

*Intro*
My wife and I are both 37 years old. We have been married for 12 years and dated for 10 months before that. No kids. I read that communication, compatibility, and chemistry are the three most important things for a successful relationship. We are able to talk about our feelings and we enjoy spending time together (bike riding, dinner, playing games, shows, travel, etc.) so the communication and compatibility are fine, but the chemistry has been a struggle for a long time - at least for me.

My wife is usually up for sex when I’m in the mood, and I feel I have a normal sex drive, but her small breast size makes it difficult for me to maintain an erection. I know that sounds terrible, but that’s the way it is. It doesn’t mean I don’t respect her as a human being or believe that a woman’s worth is based on her bra size. Otherwise, I find my wife physically attractive. In addition, she is caring and supports me in any way she can.

*Why did I get married?*
You might be wondering why I got married in the first place.
1. I didn’t have a great deal of experience sexually before I got married and didn’t realize how important physical attraction was.
2. My wife and I did have some hot sex in the beginning so I suppose I was also a bit optimistic from the good beginning-of-the-relationship sex.
3. I did not look at marriage the same way that I do now (thoughts on monogamy below). Rather than enjoying promiscuity, I felt as though marriage was the goal - it’s just what you’re supposed to do.
4. My wife is not from the U.S. If I hadn’t married her, she would have gone back to Thailand and I would have never seen her again, so I had to make a decision.

*Kids*
My wife and I both like and have experience with kids. I am a middle school teacher and my wife was a nanny for many years. She currently works as a paraprofessional in a pre-k center. I think we would make good parents. In fact, when she was a nanny, I would sometimes visit her and the two kids she took care of. We would go to Roosevelt Island in NYC and visit the playground, go to Starbucks, have a picnic, etc. Those were some of the most idyllic days of my life. I really had a good time and would like to experience that with our own kid(s).

We have put off having kids for so long for a number of reasons, but right now my main reason is that I feel our sex life is not on solid ground. In fact, I’m not sure I’m the kind of person who should be married in the first place so making another huge commitment like that might not be the best idea, despite the fact that I know it would add so much to our lives.

*Porn / Strip clubs*
I kept the fact that I use pornography hidden from my wife for a long time. Actually, she caught me viewing some Playboy images early in our relationship and was perfectly fine with it, but I felt embarrassed and kept it a secret for years after that. After a while, I developed a taste for chatting with live camgirls. My wife eventually found out and was very hurt by it. I promised to stop but was unable to (in fact, I had tried unsuccessfully to stop viewing porn myself, even before my wife found out).

We had been in a virtually sexless marriage for at least six years. I snuch out to strip clubs a few times. The first time I went, I was so turned on by the experience that my wife and I had sex five times that week! Going from a sexless marriage to _that _was unanticipated to say the least.

Each time that I went back to the strip club, I felt greatly aroused and was able to take that energy back to my wife. But I felt bad so I decided to come clean to her. My rationale was that I didn’t want to keep living a double life like this so I would just put it out in the open. She was deeply hurt (yet again) and was ready to divorce me right then, but she actually called both of my parents first! My mother saved my marriage at this point. When my wife called her in a panic, my mother was afraid something horrible had happened. My wife told her that I had gone to a strip club and my mother sort of laughed it off, said “Yeah, guys are gross,” and told her about a relationship she had had with a guy who liked going to strip clubs.

After that, my wife became tolerant of my using the camgirls website. We even viewed it together sometimes. She even let me go to the strip club once in a while. All of this is not to say that things were easy. It was very hard for her and I felt guilty, but it did improve our sex life significantly. We went from having sex once every two or three months to four or five times per month. Now my wife seems more okay with everything although our current deal is that I can only visit the strip club three times per year, something which I don’t think I’m really satisfied with (yes, I know that my wife is being incredibly generous here and I am coming off as selfish – I’m just trying to be as honest as possible).

There has been a downtick in our sex life lately. It’s not nearly as bad as before but it’s still not easy for me to maintain an erection when I’m with her. I know that some people will say that the porn is hurting our sex life. As the above paragraphs show, it’s more nuanced than that. When I feel I have the freedom to explore, my sexual arousal increases. I think the main reason I struggle with my wife, and I know it sounds terrible, is her small bust size. I am attracted to larger breasts – a B cup at least. It’s extremely difficult for me to hold onto a lusty feeling without that.

*Breast implants*
It was actually my wife who brought up the idea of getting implants first. In fact, the first time we ever had sex, she seemed self-conscious about her bust. In recent years, she has become more aware that I am attracted to fuller breasts though I don’t think she has realized that it is a big factor when it comes to our sex life. She believes my difficulty maintaining an erection has something more to do with me either physically or psychologically, or perhaps with my time spent using online pornography. This is a theory that is contradicted by my experiences in strip clubs where I find no difficulty whatsoever getting aroused (holding hands is enough to make me hard). She also wants a nose job, by the way, something I have rejected because I like her nose the way it is. Anyway, despite this, she is fearful of the procedure and possible complications which, obviously, is very understandable. Also, whenever the topic does come up – even when _she_ is the one who brings it up (which she usually is; I don’t bring it up anymore) - she seems hurt when I say that that, yes, it would be helpful.

*Monogamy*
Years ago, I never devoted much thought to marriage as an institution. I just accepted it. After years of marriage and a lot of thought and reading (“Sex at Dawn”, “Marriage, a History”), I have come to the firm conclusion that humans, generally speaking, are not a monogamous species. It comes down to a very simple question – after two people have mated, do they remain attracted to other people? Obviously, the answer is “yes”, but if humans were _truly_ monogamous, the answer would be “no”. People say all the time that “marriage is hard work”. Would a truly monogamous species view marriage as hard work? Bottom line, requiring members of a promiscuous species to choose one other member to mate with for life is bound to cause problems (hence this section of the talkaboutmarriage page).

I think I would go so far as to say I’m resentful of the institution, with its inflexibility and impossible standards. I can’t think of any other human endeavor that is considered a failure if it does not last forever. The emotion that defines marriage, that separates it from other relationships, is not love – it’s jealousy. There is love between family members and friends, but you’re allowed to have more than one family member and more than one friend. Not so with marriage. Jealousy existed before marriage (even a group of friends can feel jealous if one believes he/she is being left out), but marriage is the only institution that _encourages_ jealousy, with society telling you to keep a tight leash on your significant other. Though it is not stated explicitly, many feel that if their significant other does want to explore, it is because they have failed in some way. I feel horrible for the emotional roller coaster I have put my wife through. I do accept responsibility, but I believe the marriage concept is to blame as well.

My wife and I have talked about having an open relationship and swinging. It took her a while to be okay with my clubbing and online chatting. The open relationship thing is a no go for her and there’s probably little chance of changing her mind.

Despite my feelings on monogamy, I did make a commitment to my wife and I’m trying to honor it even though I’m sure that to many on here it doesn’t seem like that. I really don’t want to hurt her but my dissatisfaction with our sex life is on my mind all the time. I don’t know what to do.

*Questions that I have asked myself a million times and can’t figure out*
1. I know that if my wife got a boob job, it would help me get aroused TREMENDOUSLY. But will it last?
2. If we have kids, will that take my mind off of sex?
3. If I visited strip clubs more, would that satisfy me and take my mind off of actually having sex with others?
4. Maybe my desire for an open relationship is too deeply ingrained and nothing will change it. Should I just get a divorce? Is it better to hurt her now rather than possibly hurt her ten years down the line when it will be even harder?


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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

"I read that communication, compatibility, and chemistry are the three most important things for a successful relationship." - actually the most important thing is to know and love God, because without that as a foundation, you will always be frustrated with your spouse, at some point they will fail to meet your expectations

"makes it difficult for me to maintain an erection " - this is an emotional issue due to all the conditioning that you've done to yourself with porn and lust. Stop porn. Stop looking at other women. Focus only on your wife and eventually this problem will go away.

"didn’t realize how important physical attraction was. " - how are you going to love this woman when you are both 60 and sagging?

"My wife and I did have some hot sex in the beginning " - happens to everyone, its called infatuation or the "honeymoon phase", its like being on drugs, we were wired that way

"I felt as though marriage was the goal " - the goal is actually to share the good news of Jesus Christ to everyone. I can tell you are not a believer, but that is ok, I am here to tell you the truth. Marriage is a representation of the church which is one of the tactics to spread His good news. Married people make kids, families pray together, the family goes to church, and the kingdom is expanded. That is the design. Right now in your mind the design is supposed to be some type of self-service to you. With this thinking, once again, you will become frustrated. Your wife will never meet all your needs.

"We have put off having kids " - Good. It doesn't seem like as the man of the house you have your mission in life and priorities straight. Right now you are consumed with boobs and sex.

"*Porn / Strip clubs* " - I can skip this section. There is no solitude here. Flee from sexual immorality. I can tell you from experience that it is a bottomless pit.

"*Breast implants* " - I can skip this section too. Once you stop fantasizing about other women for an extended period of time, your wife will become much more pleasing and intoxicating to you.

"I think I would go so far as to say I’m resentful of the institution " - You are consumed in a religion of self and of the world. With this mindset you will be lost forever, sorry. Pick up a bible and find the real meaning of life.

1. I know that if my wife got a boob job, it would help me get aroused TREMENDOUSLY. But will it last? *Nope*
2. If we have kids, will that take my mind off of sex? *Nope*
3. If I visited strip clubs more, would that satisfy me and take my mind off of actually having sex with others? *Nope, its a bottomless pit, your fantasies will get more perverted over time, you may even start having homosexual fantasies*
4. Maybe my desire for an open relationship is too deeply ingrained and nothing will change it. Should I just get a divorce? Is it better to hurt her now rather than possibly hurt her ten years down the line when it will be even harder? *God can change anything actually, He does it all the time. Your rhetoric of absolutes is extremely immature and not masculine at all.*


Let us know when you are ready to man up so we can jump in and help support you! I would love to see you in the kingdom of heaven one day brother.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Get away from porn. It does no one any good.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

fencewalker said:


> I kept the fact that I use pornography hidden from my wife for a long time.


THAT is your problem. Not your wife's breast size. Perhaps when you see your wife naked you are reminded of the other things you see in porn that you hide from her, which is a form of lying. 

Sex does not work like the story of Pinocchio. Your penis will NOT grow bigger and longer by telling lies and hiding things. 

So if your wife gets breast implants, they will only serve to remind you that you still watch porn and are likely still hiding it.

Watching porn is not a bad thing. Hiding it from a spouse is! 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Wow I don’t even know where to begin... 

Our sexuality is one of many parts of who we are. Sex is one of many aspects that make up our relationships with our spouse. You have tunnel vision on one part of your relationship, you need to step back and take a look at the whole picture. 

Listen if your not the marriage type, then divorce her now. Please. She deserves to be loved for who she is. And trust me, there will be a line of guys waiting for her and one of the reasons will be because her body is exactly what turns them on. 

Breast have nothing to do with your desire. Trust me. Bodies change, specially after kids and as we age. No one should require an almost perfect body to get an erection. And if they do, they have porn issues and masterbating issues. 

Your partner in all their flaws should be a turn on to you. That’s love. You don’t love this women. Or any women. You see them as a pair of boobs and ass.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Dear fencewalker;

May I suggest you get some individual counseling. I think that the benefits could really help not only you, but your relationship with your wife. You need to figure out what is important in your life and start taking responsibility for who your are. I would urge you to become a better you.

First, strippers and camgirls are onlyl after your money. If you are aroused by them you are probably projecting that they have an emotional connection to you. They don't. It is strictly monetary and any niceness is just "customer service skills." Second strippers and camgirls don't care if they take your rent money from you and your wife. If you seem addicted to them, then that is going to be a very expensive habit that will take its toll on your marriage.

Work with an individual counselor to figure out what a "good loving" marriage entails. It doesn't entail spending time and money away from wife and future children with strippers and camgirls. Imagine what your future children would think if they saw or learned about daddy in such a situation. A good parent serves as a role model for their children.

Good luck. It sounds like your wife must really love you to put up with what you have done. That is good, because you are capable of changing yourself, if you really want to.


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

badsanta said:


> Perhaps when you see your wife naked you are reminded of the other things you see in porn that you hide from her, which is a form of lying.


I no longer hide my porn use from my wife. Thank you, but that is not the problem.


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> Listen if your not the marriage type, then divorce her now. Please. She deserves to be loved for who she is. And trust me, there will be a line of guys waiting for her and one of the reasons will be because her body is exactly what turns them on.


I can't bear it. I can't bear to hurt her like that, emotionally and financially. And it's not as if I don't love her too. I hate the idea of this issue splitting us up.



Girl_power said:


> Breast have nothing to do with your desire.


Yes, they do. Respectfully, it is naive to think that physical features have nothing to do with physical attraction. Some women like big muscles, others like skinny guys; some guys are attracted to breasts, others not as much. I married my wife despite this because I recognized what a wonderful person she was. I did not realize how much of a problem it would be down the road.



Girl_power said:


> Your partner in all their flaws should be a turn on to you. That’s love. You don’t love this women. Or any women. You see them as a pair of boobs and ass.


There is emotional love and physical love. I love my wife emotionally. In the bedroom, yes, boobs and ass matter. I wish I could turn on a switch in my brain so that it didn't matter so much. I wish I could get more aroused by my wife the way she is. I wish I could tell my libido to see in my wife what my mind does.


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

Young at Heart said:


> May I suggest you get some individual counseling.


I tried Talkspace for a month but I didn't think it was that great. I thought the different perspectives I got on here would be better.



Young at Heart said:


> It is strictly monetary and any niceness is just "customer service skills."


I'm okay with that. I used to tend bar. It's similar in that respect. And for the record, the fact that money is involved does not mean that two people cannot enjoy each other's company.



Young at Heart said:


> If you seem addicted to them, then that is going to be a very expensive habit that will take its toll on your marriage.


I budget out a certain amount per month and stick to it. It's about the same amount that my wife spends on her monthly yoga classes.



Young at Heart said:


> Good luck. It sounds like your wife must really love you to put up with what you have done. That is good, because you are capable of changing yourself, if you really want to.


Thank you very much for the support. It means a lot. However, I do not view what I "have done", using the services of strippers and camgirls, as immoral in and of itself (although I would agree that it can become immoral if I disregard my wife's feelings in the process). If "changing myself" means forgoing these services completely, then no, I do not want to. I do not wish to undergo monogamy therapy any more than a gay person wants to undergo gay therapy. I view it as unnatural. My goal, ironic as it may sound to those who believe that sexual desire is a zero-sum game, is to improve my sex life with my wife.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> Breast have nothing to do with your desire.


I am fairly certain that the male brain is instinctively wired to associate breast attributes with improved odds of offspring survival. That instinct results in strong sexual arousal when an ideal breast attributes are encountered. Porn thrives on exactly this and tends to overstimulate that part of a male's brain.

Awkwardly I don't think breast "size" has anything to really do with it. For example if the OP looks at an ideal pair of breasts on a transgendered man, will he still get aroused? If so, is this arousal triggered exclusively by one's breast size or some other attribute(s)? In my opinion the arousal is likely triggered by "novelty" in that the pair of breast being viewed are something new and different to the one's seen before. 

There is a lot of research that suggests is eventually the notion of "novelty" is what drives arousal after a man becomes overstimulated from watching porn. If the wife gets a boob job, then whooo hoooo her breast will have porno novelty out the wazoo. But novelty must quickly be replaced in order to be sustained. Back to porn the husband will go and at some point inevitably small breasts will become novel and fascinating to him. It might even remind him of a first girlfriend. He will seek out a porn actress with the same attributes of past girlfriends and try to relive a fantasy in his mind while at the same time seeking them out on social media to see how they look in real life after so many years. 

If the wife gets breast implants they will only serve to remind him that he was just looking at small chested women on porn that look just like an old girlfriend and that the wife's breasts are no longer "novel" in that manner. 

Take away the porn and/or sexual overstimulation and things will get back to normal. His wife's natural breasts will return to being very arousing.

My opinion....

Badsanta


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Your wife is who she is. You married her knowing what she looked like. If your not Into her now, then divorce her and let her be with someone who is into her now.
You can’t say the problem is her breasts. You can’t keep changing your wife with plastic surgery to fit your current fancy. 

The problem is you. Not her breasts. She is a person under those breasts. Her body is not for you to alter for what you like. I don’t know if you fully understand this.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Free this woman to find a man that will love her for who she is, and not cheat on her through strip clubs, porn and chat rooms.

Never get married again.


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## Satisfied Mind (Jan 29, 2019)

fencewalker said:


> I can't bear it. I can't bear to hurt her like that, emotionally and financially. And it's not as if I don't love her too. I hate the idea of this issue splitting us up.


You used a lot of words, but is it really that complicated? You know you’re not the monogamous type, but your wife most certainly is, and on top of that you’re not physically attracted to her, which your actions have made painfully clear to your wife.

So when you say you “can’t bear to hurt her,” it’s a bit late for that. What you are doing is far more cruel and destructive to her self-worth than simply ending things and letting her find happiness with someone else. If you need us to spell out how cruel your behavior is, we can. And don’t try to tell us you love your wife because love is an action and nothing about your selfish actions as you’ve described them reflect love toward your wife.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

This just seems so wrong, in so many ways, for a long-term relationship. If a good part of compatibility is based upon a single attribute (like breast size), what happens if they sag, or shrink, or she has a mastectomy? Everything falls apart?

Personally, I would prefer it if my wife had AAA boobs that got her turned on when I worked with them than C or D that do nothing... for her. Not me. I think a key to a long term relationship is you getting turned on by something that you can do for her. Her responsiveness to your touch, your words. OP make it all seem so one-sided.

The porn use, the exploration of non-monogamy, they sound like ways to help rationalize that it's OK to base your love for your wife on breast size. Don't get me wrong; there needs to be an attraction between the two people, but I think it takes something a bit more broad to survive many years together.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

@fencewalker

1. you are cheating on your wife with camgirls, it may not be physical sex but they are real women and you are getting and giving something to them that should be reserved for your wife
2. your wife has not been happy with your porn use, cam whoring or strip clubs but it appears she has been made to acquiesce by you, not the foundation for a loving relationship
3. This poor woman now suggest bigger breasts because that is what YOU want, God can you hear yourself, by the time you are finished with this poor woman her self-image and self worth will be in the toilet. i hope she has a really good friend who will lay it out for her and dump your ass
4. Do your wife a favour and divorce her, let her be loved for herself, by a decent man who isn't it to all the **** you are and has all the expectations you have and now even an open marriage. you will probably eventually wear her down on that issue and she will have to given in. You sir, should not be married.

Imagine if your wife asked you to get a tummy tuck or a penis enlargement, would you be up for that I wonder?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

fencewalker said:


> I no longer hide my porn use from my wife. Thank you, but that is not the problem.


"no longer' a problem being the operative words, you wore her down until you got your way. Next it will be the breasts, then it will be strip clubs, then it will be an open marriage....


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

badsanta said:


> ..."novelty" is what drives arousal...


You are correct that novelty is a HUGE factor although I disagree with many of the statements you made regarding novelty. I can remember a few makeout sessions from when my wife and I were dating that turned me on as much as anything I ever experienced in a strip club. Now, however, the familiarity I have with my wife is an obstacle - at least for me - that stands in the way of my excitement. To me, the idea of new partners is exciting.



badsanta said:


> I am fairly certain that the male brain is instinctively wired to associate breast attributes with improved odds of offspring survival. That instinct results in strong sexual arousal when an ideal breast attributes are encountered...
> Awkwardly I don't think breast "size" has anything to really do with it.


You are contradicting yourself here. You are positing that certain ideal breast attributes exist and then you say that size has nothing to do with it. Is size not a significant attribute? What attributes did you have in mind? Symmetry? The shape of the areola?

You are correct that men focus on breasts, from an evolutionary standpoint, because of a correlation with offspring survival. I would like to point out that male promiscuity is also a strategy that increases the odds of offspring survival (you can't blame it all on porn). The asymmetry here between male and female arises from the fact that the female is certain that the offspring being raised is hers whereas the male is not. Consider the case of one ancient female and two males. One of the males is promiscuous while the other wants to settle down. The female could receive the sperm of the promiscuous male without the knowledge of the settled male and then allow the settled male to help raise the child. The settled male will inadvertently be assuring the continuation of the promiscuous male's line while his own line dies with him.



badsanta said:


> For example if the OP looks at an ideal pair of breasts on a transgendered man, will he still get aroused?


If everything else is female in appearance, then yes. If, however, I see a mustache or an overly masculine jaw or a penis, then no. 



badsanta said:


> Back to porn the husband will go and at some point inevitably small breasts will become novel and fascinating to him... If the wife gets breast implants they will only serve to remind him that he was just looking at small chested women on porn that look just like an old girlfriend and that the wife's breasts are no longer "novel" in that manner.


I have been looking at pornography for quite some time and this has not happened. That is not to say my tastes are completely rigid. I can once in a while get turned on by a woman with small breasts, but generally speaking my preferred body type has not changed.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

fencewalker said:


> I can't bear it. I can't bear to hurt her like that, emotionally and financially. And it's not as if I don't love her too. I hate the idea of this issue splitting us up.
> ………………………………...
> There is emotional love and physical love. I love my wife emotionally. In the bedroom, yes, boobs and ass matter. I wish I could turn on a switch in my brain so that it didn't matter so much. I wish I could get more aroused by my wife the way she is. I wish I could tell my libido to see in my wife what my mind does.


Respectfully, OP, I think there's a major point that you either are unwilling or unable to accept as a truth: 

There are few things more soul destroying that spending your life being told - by someone who purportedly loves you - that you are not, will never be, enough.

Every time you run to a stripper or a cam girl, then wear your wife down from her rightful anger about your faithlessness, you convey the message that she is not enough. Every time you fail to maintain an erection at the sight of her breasts, you let her know she is not enough. Every time you tell her she'd be more sexually attractive with larger breasts, or discuss plastic surgery with her, you're saying she's not enough. And every single time you make sure to share your "honesty" about monogamy not being natural, you are making sure she knows that she is not, will never be, enough. 

The truth is, your wife is enough. That you cannot see that is not her fault. Perhaps it is not even your fault. But refusing stop holding her close and whispering in her ear, with every deed and action and honest chat, _'you're just never going to be quite good enough for me to love'_? That, sir, is your fault. 

Her self-esteem is so damaged that she's sticking around for this. The single most loving thing you could possibly do for your wife is to file for a quick, entirely amicable, and very generous, divorce. Then offer to pay for at least 6 months of sessions with an excellent therapist so she can work on rebuilding the self-esteem you've been torpedoing for the last decade-plus.

You say you can't bear to hurt your wife. What you don't seem willing to get is that you already are. Profoundly.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Regarding her tatas, a friend's daddy told her when she was whining about her little ones "Darling, anything more than a mouthful is a waste".

You love your wife, yes? Then let her go so she can find a man with whom to have children before her biological clock runs out. Don't be selfish in the guise of being noble.


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

Satisfied Mind said:


> ...nothing about your selfish actions as you’ve described them reflect love toward your wife.


That's true. I haven't told you about all the times I made her laugh (and the times she made me laugh), the times I held her in my arms, the times we had fun gossiping about dramas outside our own. I haven't told you about the times I've come home with flowers and a card that tells her how thankful I am for having her. I haven't told you about the trips we've taken within the U.S. and abroad and how much we look forward to them and enjoy them. I haven't told you about the five years that I would come home exhausted from work and help her earn her master's degree, taking on much of the work myself because the academic language was difficult for her as a non-native English speaker. I haven't told you about the times we would sing together while she practiced a song on the piano. I haven't told you how I bought that piano for her at a time when money was tight simply because she said she wanted to learn how to play. I haven't told you about the plans we've made for the future and how I genuinely would love to see them come to fruition.

You brought up some valid points in your post. I am unable to adhere to a strict monogamous code and this has caused self-image issues for my wife, something I feel terrible about. But her life is not some dreary, perpetual hell. If I have painted it as such then that's my fault. The situation is not so black and white.



Spicy said:


> Free this woman to find a man that will love her for who she is, and not cheat on her through strip clubs, porn and chat rooms.


She is free to leave. When things were really bad, we did discuss divorce. I even told her that she could keep all of our savings for herself and I meant it and still mean it. She has chosen to stay.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Yeah, I'd like to shake some sense into your wife. 

You love your wife's company. It's like having a best friend you like to hang out with. 

You do nice things for her because it makes you feel good. Being good to her justifies your twisted idea wives shouldn't mind can girls to get aroused. Having a wife feeds your desire for companionship but it doesn't go beyond that. 

I'd like to tell your wife there's a huge difference in having a husband who does "nice" things for her and a husband who is nice AND who cannot keep his hands off her. Huge difference!!!

You are not that into her, and that's ok...What's not ok is you not letting her go and have a chance in finding someone who can love her whole.

You are worried about how YOU feel. You are not worried about how she feels. You don't want to become the bad guy in her life. That's why you have fed her such bull*** about being totally normal to pay cam girls to get an erection in order to have sex with her. WTF!!! 

It would be interesting to invite your wife to this board and for her to see what other husbands and wives think about this whole thing. I would be the first one to advise her to go look for someone else.


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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

Hey OP, you are still defending and reasoning, but have not yet found the comfort you seek. Will you try something new?

For instance, I stopped my intermittent binge drinking years ago but I've still been having a cocktail or a beer here and there. Recently I just thought, what would happen if I stopped completely? So for giggles, I just stopped drinking all together and it feels pretty good!

Sometimes you just need to walk in another direction so you can get out of your own way and start to see other perspectives. If you don't like the new direction, then you can always go back to your old ways.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

fencewalker said:


> I no longer hide my porn use from my wife. Thank you, but that is not the problem.


Yes it is. Don't kid yourself.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

fencewalker said:


> I can remember a few makeout sessions from when my wife and I were dating that turned me on as much as anything I ever experienced in a strip club. Now, however, the familiarity I have with my wife is an obstacle - at least for me - that stands in the way of my excitement. To me, the idea of new partners is exciting.


Did you know that for some people that idea of a week of complete abstinence is so novel that it will be more exciting than anything you have ever experienced. I am not joking, give it a try! 

If you do actually try that you will discover that your mind will go into overdrive to replace your porn use. You'll begin to both fantasize and start to really tune into everything around you in search of something that is arousing. For the first time in your life you will discover what it feels like to have your sexual desires driven by your own brain as opposed to feeding it junk from porn. Give it a week, or at least two-three days. Suddenly your instincts will guide you to you wife and you will re-experience a sure thing with excitement that is real and not driven by nonsense novelty. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> I think a key to a long term relationship is you getting turned on by something that you can do for her. Her responsiveness to your touch, your words.


That is a turn-on for me too. Perhaps I should focus more on that.


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

badsanta said:


> Did you know that for some people that idea of a week of complete abstinence is so novel that it will be more exciting than anything you have ever experienced... Give it a week, or at least two-three days.


It is not unusual for me to go two or three days without porn. My wife and I recently made a bet about me going a full week. I won. And my wife and I did end up having sex two-three times. Of course, we also had sex yesterday and I had looked at porn the day before. I disagree with those who say that porn is the root of all evil, but I would agree that everything is best in moderation. I

I thank you for offering an actual suggestion as opposed to many other people who just want to tell me what a twisted person I am.


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

pastasauce79 said:


> I'd like to tell your wife there's a huge difference in having a husband who does "nice" things for her and a husband who is nice AND who cannot keep his hands off her. Huge difference!!!


I agree. My wife and I do have sex, by the way, and it can get hot. I'd like to find a way for me to make it more consistent.



pastasauce79 said:


> What's not ok is you not letting her go and have a chance in finding someone who can love her whole.


Who's not letting her go? My wife and I had this conversation recently. I flat out asked her if she thought it was immoral for me to stay with her knowing that I am attracted to other people. We discussed her meeting someone else and she brought up that she knew how easy it would be for her to find someone else on a dating app. She knows that if we split up, I would let her keep our savings and support her any other way that I can. She wants to stay and continue working on it.



pastasauce79 said:


> That's why you have fed her such bull*** about being totally normal to pay cam girls to get an erection in order to have sex with her. WTF!!!


As far as the camgirls stuff goes, despite her being heterosexual, she gets more turned on watching girls than guys. When she first found out that I watched camgirls, after the initial shock and, yes, feelings of betrayal, we watched together. She had fun also. Lately, I have asked for more privacy which perhaps was a mistake. I should probably bring her in more.



pastasauce79 said:


> You are worried about how YOU feel. You are not worried about how she feels.


Just completely wrong.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

As I was reading this thread I was wondering what you look like, OP.

Are you a near perfect human specimen, physically?

I fervently hope some day you get to feel continual sexual rejection due to what some body part of yours looks like. As a human learning experience for you.

Buckle up dude, you never know what's coming down pthe line for you physically. Freak things happen (heart attacks in fit people, brain aneurysm, sudden male hair loss, erectile dysfunction, MS, rheumatoid arthritis, you never know). 

Beware the karma gods.


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

waynejoey said:


> Hey OP, you are still defending and reasoning, but have not yet found the comfort you seek. Will you try something new?
> 
> For instance, I stopped my intermittent binge drinking years ago but I've still been having a cocktail or a beer here and there. Recently I just thought, what would happen if I stopped completely? So for giggles, I just stopped drinking all together and it feels pretty good!


Hi waynejoey. Thanks for the productive advice. Yes, I have tried this strategy. There was a time when I subscribed to the "porn is the root of all evil" philosophy too and I did my best to cut it out. I locked myself out of my favorite websites on my computer. I got rid of my phone's internet capability completely. I bought a device I saw on Shark Tank that lets people who can't control their appetites put all their junk food in a safe that will stay locked for a certain amount of time. I used it for my iPad. I even read Alan Carr's "The Easy Way to Quit Smoking" and tried to apply the principles to my porn use. The best I was able to do was a month without porn and even without masturbating. I didn't end up having any sex with my wife at that time (though as I've said in other posts, my wife and I do have more sex now) but I did have a couple of wet dreams for the first time since I was a teenager.

At that time, I was completely hiding my porn use from my wife. When she came home, I would turn it off and this would leave me with a very unsatisfied feeling and made it difficult for me to connect sexually with my wife. I interpreted this as being evidence that porn is the root of all evil which is why I tried to eliminate it. What I have since found is that being more open with my wife about my feelings and letting her into my fantasies is helpful; hiding and shutting everything down when she comes home is counterproductive, and so is pretending not to have these feelings in the first place (locking myself out of my computer, etc.). 

Incidentally, smoking and porn use are both described as addictive behaviors. I agree they can be. However, I believe there's a fundamental difference between smoking and porn use which is why so many people have had success with "The Easy Way to Quit Smoking" (maybe some people on here will check it out?) while I could not apply the ideas to my own situation. Carr realized that people know smoking is bad for them but they continue to smoke because they feel irritable and believe that smoking is the only way they can relax themselves. Once they realize that it was the cigarette itself that made them feel irritable due to nicotine withdrawal then they realize that there's absolutely no reason to continue smoking. I think the analogy with porn use breaks down because porn is not the "first cause" of feelings of desire (like nicotine withdrawal is the first cause of irritability) despite what so many people on the internet say. Yes, it can get out of hand and I admit there are times when I turn to it more out of boredom than genuine horniness, but people do have innate sexual desires whereas they do not have an innate desire to smoke.

One of the pleasures I derive from porn and strip clubs is the feeling of freedom. Psychologically, if I feel closed in - unable to explore - it's a turn-off. The freedom that my wife gives me to explore puts me in a completely different mindset, even when I'm with her. We do discuss boundaries, of course, and if she says she doesn't want me going online certain days then I don't do it. As far as strip clubs are concerned, I have only gone about ten times in the last few years so it hasn't been all that frequent.


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

Livvie said:


> As I was reading this thread I was wondering what you look like, OP.
> 
> Are you a near perfect human specimen, physically?
> 
> ...


No, I am not a perfect specimen although my wife and I both work out. And the point I think you're trying to make about looking at things from my wife's point of view and thinking about how she may be looking at her own body because of my attraction to large breasts is a valid one and one I think about all the time. However, your spiteful tone is not appreciated. That goes for many of the people on here. Of course, I knew that it was inevitable when I made this post - that many people have strong feelings about pornography and so forth. 

Please understand the following: 
1. I would love more than anything to get erect easily with my wife. I continue to look for things that get me in the mood. My wife and I had sex yesterday, actually. She spoke in Thai, pretending to be one of the Thai bar girls that are found all around Thailand. I'm actually surprised we never did that before and I enjoyed it so that's one more tool in our arsenal. I have also tried complete abstinence from porn. That did not work.
2. My wife is not a prisoner. We have discussed these issues many times and she is still here of her own free will. She will have my support as well as the support of her family and friends if she chooses to leave, and maybe she will. Until that day comes, she is here, working with me. And I am here, in this forum, seeking any and all well-intended advice - not people wishing brain aneurysms upon me.
3. I know many on here think that I should divorce my wife. I actually do consider this well-intended advice if that's people's honest opinions (although there is a nice way to say it), but I am not willing to go down that route until I feel I have exhausted all alternatives. My marriage has been rocky but it is actually much better now than it was a few years ago so I think a divorce would be premature at this point. I am still brainstorming and welcome this chance to brainstorm with others both on ways to get aroused more consistently and on how to stop freaking out so much when I don't (I tend to freak out about it more than my wife does).


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

waynejoey said:


> how are you going to love this woman when you are both 60 and sagging?


Good question. I would appreciate any 60+ individuals offering their experience on how they keep the flame burning.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

fencewalker said:


> It is not unusual for me to go two or three days without porn. *My wife and I recently made a bet about me going a full week. I won. And my wife and I did end up having sex two-three times.* Of course, we also had sex yesterday and I had looked at porn the day before. I disagree with those who say that porn is the root of all evil, but I would agree that everything is best in moderation. I
> 
> I thank you for offering an actual suggestion as opposed to many other people who just want to tell me what a twisted person I am.


*OK, now here we have something!*

Now the question is about how you expand on that? I completely agree with you that porn is not the problem, BUT you should try and shift your perspective that "how" you use porn can actually be a tool to help you better understand yourself and works towards solving your problems. 

I have been through a lot myself and also read a lot. The solution I am going to suggest is not ideal, but you will find that this really helps. Think of it as "libido management" in that when you want to have quality sex and intimacy with your wife, that for you it will not be spontaneous and will require some preparation. Here are some things that may help:

Try and schedule intimacy with you wife. If she agrees then you can try to refrain from overstimulating yourself for a few at least a day or two prior (avoiding porn and masturbation). Then come time to be with your wife, you have plenty of extra hormones built up to make the moment more enjoyable for BOTH of you. 
Try substituting porn with something else that is not over stimulating. An example might be reading erotic materials and allow yourself to fantasize if the nature of what you are reading might apply to making things more stimulating when you are intimate with your wife.
This one is awkward, but yet very effective. If you want to enjoy erotic materials (porn or whatever) combined with self gratification, consider inviting your wife to become somehow indirectly involved in that process. How that works is up to you and your wife, but the idea is that you somehow together discuss and choose what erotic materials/novelties that can actually lend themselves to you enjoying fantasizing about your own wife. 
Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

fencewalker said:


> No, I am not a perfect specimen although my wife and I both work out. And the point I think you're trying to make about looking at things from my wife's point of view and thinking about how she may be looking at her own body because of my attraction to large breasts is a valid one and one I think about all the time. However, your spiteful tone is not appreciated. That goes for many of the people on here. Of course, I knew that it was inevitable when I made this post - that many people have strong feelings about pornography and so forth.
> 
> Please understand the following:
> 1. I would love more than anything to get erect easily with my wife. I continue to look for things that get me in the mood. My wife and I had sex yesterday, actually. She spoke in Thai, pretending to be one of the Thai bar girls that are found all around Thailand. I'm actually surprised we never did that before and I enjoyed it so that's one more tool in our arsenal. I have also tried complete abstinence from porn. That did not work.
> ...


Not sure my response was as much "spiteful" as just honest. To be spiteful, you kind of have to be seeking revenge or being mean as some payback to the recipient, that's the essence of it. I don't know you so I'm not feeling spiteful towards you, more like _repelled_ by you as someone who is so unaware of the damage you are doing to your wife.

Yep, you can't help it if you aren't sexually attracted to her because she doesn't have the large breasts you need to be attracted.

I think the way you are handling that is completely without honor or thinking of her wellbeing.

I see lots of rationalization, and a lack of true empathy.


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## Sockittomewife (Nov 30, 2018)

fencewalker said:


> I no longer hide my porn use from my wife. Thank you, but that is not the problem.


It is tho. She might of gotten over the initial bunch to the gut, but she is hurting. And withdrawing from you more and more because of it. That’s y your sex life has gone to ****. Your looking at all this one sided. If she was going to thunder down under so she could get excited for you, you wouldn’t be very happy I’m sure. That’s nature of it. Your just on the self centered side of the marriage. And it doesn’t seem like anyone is going to change your mind or new outlook on things. So why are u makin this poor girl suffer? She DOES have a sex drive and your missing out on finding your wife’s fun and wild side that ur urning for. 
Good luck!


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

You might try looking at abstaining from porn as a gift to your wife. It doesn't really matter how YOU see it. It's how SHE sees it that matters, and perhaps, as a gift, that context, it can be something that brings you pleasure, because it brings her happiness.

Aren't the very best feelings those you get when you do something nice for someone else, something THEY appreciate? Because so often we can come up with things we THINK they should appreciate, but don't. When you find those things they do, that makes it extra-special.

If you can't look at porn in this fashion (now viewing it being a gift to your wife), then perhaps porn has more control over you than you believe.

Just a thought. Kind of thinking out loud here.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

fencewalker said:


> I agree. My wife and I do have sex, by the way, and it can get hot. I'd like to find a way for me to make it more consistent.
> 
> 
> Who's not letting her go? My wife and I had this conversation recently. I flat out asked her if she thought it was immoral for me to stay with her knowing that I am attracted to other people. We discussed her meeting someone else and she brought up that she knew how easy it would be for her to find someone else on a dating app. She knows that if we split up, I would let her keep our savings and support her any other way that I can. She wants to stay and continue working on it.
> ...


If everything is peachy and your wife is ok about you needing a cam girls and sleeping with others to have an erection at home what's the issue then? 

Marriage is a piece of paper. You create your own marriage. You are saying you have put your wife through an emotional rollercoaster. You are the one posting here and wanting advice. 

Many are saying stop the porn, it can hurt you and your wife. You defend your choices. What's the point of asking for advice when you are not listening to the advice?

The whole post is about you. Your choices, your feelings, your desires. Marriage is about compromising as well. What are you willing to do sexually for your wife? What are her desires and fantasies? What are her goals in her marriage? I really feel sorry for her. I'm not from the U.S. either, and I wonder if she thinks all American men are like you.

It's just sad you can't have an erection without watching porn or fantasizing about big breasts! I'd like to know how many men here have the same issue? 

I wonder if a sex therapist can help you?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

pastasauce79 said:


> It's just sad you can't have an erection without watching porn or fantasizing about big breasts! I'd like to know how many men here have the same issue?
> 
> I wonder if a sex therapist can help you?


If he could fantasize about his _wife_ having big breasts, there wouldn't be an issue. The problem, I think, is that he can't see his wife as the center of a fantasy. My wife is really out of shape, very overweight, and two mishapen replacement breasts post-mastectomy. And I fantasize about her A LOT. In my mind, her shape is not a turn-off. I see her as the gorgeous young woman I married 40 years ago.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> If he could fantasize about his _wife_ having big breasts, there wouldn't be an issue. The problem, I think, is that he can't see his wife as the center of a fantasy. My wife is really out of shape, very overweight, and two mishapen replacement breasts post-mastectomy. And I fantasize about her A LOT. In my mind, her shape is not a turn-off. I see her as the gorgeous young woman I married 40 years ago.


I get it. 

My husband has gained weight due to a medical condition. I still find him attractive and sexy. His belly pouch is nice to the touch. Other women might think I'm crazy but I adore his body shape.

After having kids my body is not the same either, but he cannot walk by without grabbing me. 

It's a wonderful feeling to know you are the center of your spouse's sex fantasies.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Casual Observer said:


> If he could fantasize about his _wife_ having big breasts, there wouldn't be an issue. The problem, I think, is that he can't see his wife as the center of a fantasy. My wife is really out of shape, very overweight, and two mishapen replacement breasts post-mastectomy. And I fantasize about her A LOT. In my mind, her shape is not a turn-off. I see her as the gorgeous young woman I married 40 years ago.


This in my opinion is the challenge the OP needs to pursue. Asking himself what things about his wife would facilitate his own fantasies for her. At the moment it seems _novelty_ driven in that he does fantasize about her having big breasts, but for whatever reason that fantasy seems too problematic or unsure to make into a reality. So solutions should be _reality-based-novelties_ that are easy and obvious. However I just contradicted myself as the notion of novelty is rarely easy or obvious. Well the nature of which adult novelties and female beauty products that can be purchased online would tend to argue otherwise. 

What if the OP were to pursue a lingerie-based solution that uses some sexy lingerie along with some push up pads or shapers for his wife's breasts. Most of the products can be purchased at a local bog box retailer at a very reasonable price. Odds are if he discussed this with his wife and went shopping online with her to point out a few things that he likes, she would probably be willing to indulge along with another bet for him to stop self pleasuring himself for at least a few days before she shows it to him. 

Also if the wife could adopt a strategy of trying to leave a few things to her husband's imagination and not allow him to take off her bra while being intimate, that could begin to stimulate his imagination and fantasy over to lingerie and less towards a surgical procedure. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

badsanta said:


> This in my opinion is the challenge the OP needs to pursue. Asking himself what things about his wife would facilitate his own fantasies for her. At the moment it seems _novelty_ driven in that he does fantasize about her having big breasts, but for whatever reason that fantasy seems too problematic or unsure to make into a reality. So solutions should be _reality-based-novelties_ that are easy and obvious. However I just contradicted myself as the notion of novelty is rarely easy or obvious. Well the nature of which adult novelties and female beauty products that can be purchased online would tend to argue otherwise.
> 
> What if the OP were to pursue a lingerie-based solution that uses some sexy lingerie along with some push up pads or shapers for his wife's breasts. Most of the products can be purchased at a local bog box retailer at a very reasonable price. Odds are if he discussed this with his wife and went shopping online with her to point out a few things that he likes, she would probably be willing to indulge along with another bet for him to stop self pleasuring himself for at least a few days before she shows it to him.
> 
> ...


We really have no idea what his wife wants though. Maybe she's offended that he fantasizes about women with larger breasts. Or maybe she'd be totally open to larger breasts herself. Her issue with his porn use may be skewing her thoughts about larger breasts though; she may truly resent them, possibly for good reason. 

There needs to be a solution that works for both of them, not just one. And it can't even be a compromise really; it almost has to be one of those magical things that just makes sense. Reality has to knock the OP on the head though. I don't think he can see the forest for the trees right now, thinking that porn isn't a significant issue.

As I think this through, it's possible that anything that's glamorized in porn might be a severe turn off for her. The only thing about porn that she might enjoy, according to OP, is girl-on-girl. And maybe that's the key here. Maybe he isn't offering her what she needs to be satisfied. Maybe he could learn a few tricks from girl-on-girl stuff instead of focusing on dumping a load into a receptacle of fantasized shape & desire.


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

Livvie said:


> I don't know you so I'm not feeling spiteful towards you, more like _repelled_ by you as someone who is so unaware of the damage you are doing to your wife.


Well then, I hope you are repelled far, far away. Please discontinue your responses to this discussion.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Casual Observer said:


> We really have no idea what his wife wants though. Maybe she's offended that he fantasizes about women with larger breasts. Or maybe she'd be totally open to larger breasts herself.
> ...
> There needs to be a solution that works for both of them, not just one.


These are good questions for the OP.

I will admit that I am NOT an advocate of breast enhancement surgery and I once found myself in an awkward relationship (long before I got married) where the woman I was with was unhappy with her breast and wanted to get them enlarged. No matter how much I told her how wonderful they were naturally, she did not believe me. Most of the times when we were intimate she would try to avoid contact between me and her breasts because she said her small breast size made her feel uncomfortable with herself.

So there are situations where the man wants things kept natural and it is the woman that wants them enlarged. From what I understand the procedure can be a huge confidence booster for the women that want it done. 

So it would be helpful to those here helping the OP to know if there has been a discussion with the wife about enhancement options and what is her stance on the topic?

Regards,
Badsanta


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

waynejoey said:


> Hey OP, you are still defending and reasoning, but have not yet found the comfort you seek. Will you try something new?
> 
> For instance, I stopped my intermittent binge drinking years ago but I've still been having a cocktail or a beer here and there. Recently I just thought, what would happen if I stopped completely? So for giggles, I just stopped drinking all together and it feels pretty good!
> 
> Sometimes you just need to walk in another direction so you can get out of your own way and start to see other perspectives. If you don't like the new direction, then you can always go back to your old ways.


The drinking thing... may be closer to porn than some think. I would get frustrated and let porn try to soothe the feeling of rejection I was getting from my wife. It sorta worked, but it also kept me from dealing with the problem (the rejection). It was, in fact, a substitute. Whether I was willing to accept that or not. And for the longest time, I didn't accept that. Actually, what I didn't accept was that porn was keeping me from dealing with the problem. I understood its role as a substitute.

When I discovered what appeared to be the cause of my wife's lack of passion (the past she actively lied about, in a nutshell, claiming I was her first and allowing dishonesty to become the norm for her, once trapped by her lie), I stopped looking at porn cold-turkey. It's been over a year. I cannot let porn ever again be a substitute for what I feel like I'm missing, because it's not even close to what intimacy should be with your wife. Not. Even. Close. When you let it become a substitute, you're short-changing yourself. You're settling for something you shouldn't, not even an imitation but a fraudulent idea of intimacy. 

Porn will, of course, affect different people differently. It didn't destroy me; it didn't destroy my marriage. But it kept me from improving our marriage, from doing the hard work, asking the hard questions of both myself and my wife.


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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> The drinking thing... may be closer to porn than some think. I would get frustrated and let porn try to soothe the feeling of rejection I was getting from my wife. It sorta worked, but it also kept me from dealing with the problem (the rejection). It was, in fact, a substitute. Whether I was willing to accept that or not. And for the longest time, I didn't accept that. Actually, what I didn't accept was that porn was keeping me from dealing with the problem. I understood its role as a substitute.
> 
> When I discovered what appeared to be the cause of my wife's lack of passion (the past she actively lied about, in a nutshell, claiming I was her first and allowing dishonesty to become the norm for her, once trapped by her lie), I stopped looking at porn cold-turkey. It's been over a year. I cannot let porn ever again be a substitute for what I feel like I'm missing, because it's not even close to what intimacy should be with your wife. Not. Even. Close. When you let it become a substitute, you're short-changing yourself. You're settling for something you shouldn't, not even an imitation but a fraudulent idea of intimacy.
> 
> Porn will, of course, affect different people differently. It didn't destroy me; it didn't destroy my marriage. But it kept me from improving our marriage, from doing the hard work, asking the hard questions of both myself and my wife.


Yes Casual Observer!!! Not so casual now are you 

This is such a brilliant truth and I do was trapped in this warped lie for the longest time and now I am reaping what I sowed. You are 1000% correct, our porn usage let our wives off the hook and indirectly communicated that we were satisfied with the way things are. Now as we get older and their sex drives diminish further, it has become a strong hold. My wife's words "well I mean it has been like this for a long time". Once a week 'ok sex' had become a habit! Argh, and I let it happen with these other numbing agents being a replacement. For me it was porn and captain morgan. For the OP it is porn and strip clubs. We all have our desired poisons.

Anyway, regarding OP, nothing else I can do, he is trapped in the twisted lies of satan and will live a life of selfishness and constant discontentment. I did my part in sharing the truth, I will not debate any further. Our 1st job in life as men of God are to create disciples that create other disciples so we can spread the word about what Jesus did for us. And our first priority in discipleship is our spouse. So I would never say to my wife: babe, you just aren't as hot as the strip clubs, but when I'm low on money let me turn the lights about and bang you while I fantasize about porn, and oh by the way you should get a boob job. Because that line of reasoning is so senseless and useless in the grand scheme of things. Rather I say to her "let's show the secular world and have an amazing sex life so the aroma of our success brings them to Jesus".

We gotta wake up men! And stop being little boys.


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

badsanta said:


> Try and schedule intimacy with you wife. If she agrees then you can try to refrain from overstimulating yourself for a few at least a day or two prior (avoiding porn and masturbation). Then come time to be with your wife, you have plenty of extra hormones built up to make the moment more enjoyable for BOTH of you.
> Try substituting porn with something else that is not over stimulating. An example might be reading erotic materials and allow yourself to fantasize if the nature of what you are reading might apply to making things more stimulating when you are intimate with your wife.
> This one is awkward, but yet very effective. If you want to enjoy erotic materials (porn or whatever) combined with self gratification, consider inviting your wife to become somehow indirectly involved in that process. How that works is up to you and your wife, but the idea is that you somehow together discuss and choose what erotic materials/novelties that can actually lend themselves to you enjoying fantasizing about your own wife.


These are good ideas. I found some erotic stories online that I enjoyed. No pictures, only words. I don't go back to that page very often but perhaps it could be used as a substitute sometimes. And I should be bringing my wife in more. I'll definitely keep these suggestions in mind, in addition to exercising more moderation generally.


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> I cannot let porn ever again be a substitute for what I feel like I'm missing, because it's not even close to what intimacy should be with your wife. Not. Even. Close.


I don't disagree here and I am working on exercising more moderation.


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

waynejoey said:


> Anyway, regarding OP, nothing else I can do, he is trapped in the twisted lies of satan and will live a life of selfishness and constant discontentment. I did my part in sharing the truth, I will not debate any further. Our 1st job in life as men of God are to create disciples that create other disciples so we can spread the word about what Jesus did for us. And our first priority in discipleship is our spouse. So I would never say to my wife: babe, you just aren't as hot as the strip clubs, but when I'm low on money let me turn the lights about and bang you while I fantasize about porn, and oh by the way you should get a boob job. Because that line of reasoning is so senseless and useless in the grand scheme of things. Rather I say to her "let's show the secular world and have an amazing sex life so the aroma of our success brings them to Jesus".


We don't share the same religious beliefs, but there is some truth in what you say. I will attempt to put my wife more in the forefront of my mind, where she deserves to be.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

waynejoey said:


> we Yes Casual Observer!!! Not so casual now are you
> 
> This is such a brilliant truth and I do was trapped in this warped lie for the longest time and now I am reaping what I sowed. You are 1000% correct, our porn usage let our wives off the hook and indirectly communicated that we were satisfied with the way things are. Now as we get older and their sex drives diminish further, it has become a strong hold. My wife's words "well I mean it has been like this for a long time". Once a week 'ok sex' had become a habit! Argh, and I let it happen with these other numbing agents being a replacement. For me it was porn and captain morgan. For the OP it is porn and strip clubs. We all have our desired poisons.
> 
> ...


We share the same faith BUT I really don't think a faith-based argument is needed here. This is standard common sense. That we let something substitute for something real and settle for what we shouldn't settle for. We lower both our own standards as well as accept a lower standard from our partners. We become complicit in the road to mediocrity.

Regarding the boob job, I don't think there's anything at all wrong with the wife getting a boob job, if it's something both thing would be a good idea. But if the wife is doing so because she thinks her husband would otherwise leave or think less of her, how much more wrong can you get? 

I think "fantasizing" is really at the heart of a long term awesome relationship. the fantasizing doesn't take place mostly during intimacy, but surrounding it. Leading up to it. And obviously the fantasy involves the partner, not others. The danger is when you fantasize that your partner desires you more than they do. Ideally, your partner desires you more than your own fantasy. I might be setting a pretty high bar here.

Getting back to faith, please note that I was woefully unprepared for marriage by Christian pre-marital counseling. There was no talk of boundaries, no talk of differing notions of privacy. No talk of creating a "book" of how you should see each other for each of the next 4, 5, 6 decades of life. Covering all the details, including intimacy and how you deal with going in separate directions (career vs child raising?) without going in separate directions. How you maintain the connection. How you measure that, so you know when something's amiss. The need to have a tune-up counseling session once in a while, when the hard questions are asked. 

This is an area in which the Church should excel, an area in which it could truly make a difference. It would have kept many of us from finding TAM, right?


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## Where there's a will (Feb 10, 2014)

Having small breasts can be very sexy. You need to channel your deviance (there's probably a better word) into finding them a turn on. At the moment its bigger breasts that get you going. It's possible for you to turn this round so that small breasts are what you crave. Restrict all porn use but when you cant resist it any more only search your wifes body shape. Train your brain to find small that shape irresistable and start building up your wife. Make her proud to be who she is sexually. The hurtful things should then fade away over time and you will find that she is everything you desire.


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

Where there's a will said:


> Having small breasts can be very sexy. You need to channel your deviance (there's probably a better word) into finding them a turn on. At the moment its bigger breasts that get you going. It's possible for you to turn this round so that small breasts are what you crave. Restrict all porn use but when you cant resist it any more only search your wifes body shape. Train your brain to find small that shape irresistable and start building up your wife. Make her proud to be who she is sexually. The hurtful things should then fade away over time and you will find that she is everything you desire.


I've half-heartedly tried this strategy in the past. I'll double my efforts.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

fencewalker said:


> These are good ideas. I found some erotic stories online that I enjoyed. No pictures, only words. I don't go back to that page very often but perhaps it could be used as a substitute sometimes. And I should be bringing my wife in more. I'll definitely keep these suggestions in mind, in addition to exercising more moderation generally.


When I first discussed my self gratification habits and went through a process of asking my wife to better accept and care for that part of me, it was really awkward at first. I am pretty sure I came across as needy and self-conflicted. However over time the shame and guilt eventually have been removed. These days my wife really enjoys giving me something to "think" about. And I enjoy knowing that she accepts that part of me. This allows my time alone to be something that brings us closer as opposed to something that pulls us apart. 

Exercise of course will do wonders. Especially if life is stressful to help stay calm, patient and be a better listener whenever things get tough again. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

fencewalker said:


> I agree. My wife and I do have sex, by the way, and it can get hot. I'd like to find a way for me to make it more consistent.
> 
> 
> Who's not letting her go? My wife and I had this conversation recently. I flat out asked her if she thought it was immoral for me to stay with her knowing that I am attracted to other people. We discussed her meeting someone else and she brought up that she knew how easy it would be for her to find someone else on a dating app. She knows that if we split up, I would let her keep our savings and support her any other way that I can. She wants to stay and continue working on it.
> ...


You want more privacy with other women, why? This is cheating already. How would you feel if your wife was online with some very hot guys (i.e. more sexually attractive than you) and asked you to leave the room? Would you be down with that? 

Please do the honorable thing and divorce your wife and camwhore all you want.


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

aine said:


> You want more privacy with other women, why? This is cheating already. How would you feel if your wife was online with some very hot guys (i.e. more sexually attractive than you) and asked you to leave the room? Would you be down with that?


I liked this post by mistake. To answer your question - yes, I would be down with that. I appreciate that this would be a deal breaker for you but not everyone feels that way. It is up to the couple to decide where the boundaries are.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Ok where to start. Do you masturbate to the porn? You say you went a week without porn and that you and your wife had sex several times. Have you ever tried expanding to more than a week? Why do you think your wife bet you that you couldn't go a week? It is because you are hurting her every damn day. 

No she shouldn't get breast implants. This marriage is most likely going to fail. You don't believe in monogamy, you aren't sexually attracted to your wife. Just like the kid thing. It is wise not to bring children into a relationship that isn't stable. It is wise to make life altering, body alterations in a relationship that isn't working. You know she is only considering doing that for you. She should be concerned about complications not just now but later. Here is a quote from a plastic surgeon's website. "On average, the majority of implants last 10-20 years without complications." So how old is she now? How many times will she have to have these things replaced?

You claim to love your wife but this isn't really love or at least not marital love. So she doesn't want to divorce, she also didn't want to marry a guy who finds her unattractive and can't even get a hard on around her without watching cam girls. Guarantee. So you bring her flowers and make her laugh that doesn't seem to be enough for you why should it be enough for her. An addict to cocaine just wants more cocaine even though it is hurting them, slowly killing them and all their loved ones want to do is save them. Be a loved one. Divorce her while she can still find another monogamous man to have real love and children with.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Livvie said:


> As I was reading this thread I was wondering what you look like, OP.
> 
> Are you a near perfect human specimen, physically?
> 
> ...



Probably not. Thai girls are notoriously beautiful but unfortunately are more often than not content with less than perfect white males particularly if they are from a poor family and in her case was a nanny who needed a green card to stay in the US. She is now educated and can live in the US and I am sure there are many men who would date her or marry her and have babies with her.
OP by his own admission was not very experienced sexually until he met her, a bit of a clue as to his attractiveness perhaps. 
My bet is that OP is not a perfect male specimen in any sense of the word but his wife loves him for what he gives her and I am not talking about sex. In addition he does not want to have children, because maybe she is not really mother of his kids material (after all she was from an uneducated, poor English speaking, poor background) see where I am going with this? I sense a lack of respect for his wife not just about her breasts but about her as a person. I also sense that because she is from a culture which tends to give males a lot of leeway (no self respecting western female would put up with this ****) he is trying to turn her into something she is not.
She is prepared to put up with his issues however because of where she came from. In other words there may be more reasons for staying in this marriage from her point of view. I believe she knows exactly what she has in him, flaws and all. It could all be very transactional.


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## Captainswan86 (Jun 23, 2020)

fencewalker said:


> *Intro*
> My wife and I are both 37 years old. We have been married for 12 years and dated for 10 months before that. No kids. I read that communication, compatibility, and chemistry are the three most important things for a successful relationship. We are able to talk about our feelings and we enjoy spending time together (bike riding, dinner, playing games, shows, travel, etc.) so the communication and compatibility are fine, but the chemistry has been a struggle for a long time - at least for me.
> 
> My wife is usually up for sex when I’m in the mood, and I feel I have a normal sex drive, but her small breast size makes it difficult for me to maintain an erection. I know that sounds terrible, but that’s the way it is. It doesn’t mean I don’t respect her as a human being or believe that a woman’s worth is based on her bra size. Otherwise, I find my wife physically attractive. In addition, she is caring and supports me in any way she can.
> ...


That was a lot to take in I know her hurt but on different levels. But to be honest if you have to do all these things to get aroused to be with your wife I think divorce is the best suggestion. Your young she doesn’t deserve that. How would you feel if she felt the same about your penis size and did the same thing to you I bet you’d be hurt right. This won’t get better by getting implants no girl should want to do that to save a marriage. I don’t have the right advice for this honestly it’s alot but I know how she feels and it silently destroys someone on the inside I can tell you that much


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

Captainswan86 said:


> That was a lot to take in I know her hurt but on different levels. But to be honest if you have to do all these things to get aroused to be with your wife I think divorce is the best suggestion. Your young she doesn’t deserve that. How would you feel if she felt the same about your penis size and did the same thing to you I bet you’d be hurt right. This won’t get better by getting implants no girl should want to do that to save a marriage. I don’t have the right advice for this honestly it’s alot but I know how she feels and it silently destroys someone on the inside I can tell you that much


Thank you for your comments. Yes, I have wondered how I would feel if the shoe was on the other foot and I wonder if she might feel more hurt on the inside than she lets known on the outside. You mentioned that you know her hurt but on different levels. Would it be possible for you to elaborate on this?


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

aine said:


> Probably not. Thai girls are notoriously beautiful but unfortunately are more often than not content with less than perfect white males particularly if they are from a poor family and in her case was a nanny who needed a green card to stay in the US. She is now educated and can live in the US and I am sure there are many men who would date her or marry her and have babies with her.
> OP by his own admission was not very experienced sexually until he met her, a bit of a clue as to his attractiveness perhaps.
> My bet is that OP is not a perfect male specimen in any sense of the word but his wife loves him for what he gives her and I am not talking about sex. In addition he does not want to have children, because maybe she is not really mother of his kids material (after all she was from an uneducated, poor English speaking, poor background) see where I am going with this? I sense a lack of respect for his wife not just about her breasts but about her as a person. I also sense that because she is from a culture which tends to give males a lot of leeway (no self respecting western female would put up with this ****) he is trying to turn her into something she is not.
> She is prepared to put up with his issues however because of where she came from. In other words there may be more reasons for staying in this marriage from her point of view. I believe she knows exactly what she has in him, flaws and all. It could all be very transactional.


I posted a response to this yesterday but apparently it was taken down because of the strong language. So I'll try again... You insulted me and, knowing only that my wife is from Thailand, you made the generalization that she is from a poor, uneducated background and only got married to earn a green card. You also made the unbelievably hypocritical and xenophobic statement that in her culture, girls put up with male misbehavior whereas a westerner wouldn't, despite the fact that you have no doubt read dozens of examples on this site of western women putting up with all kinds of ****. You clearly have zero interest in making any constructive comments. Your only desire here is to bash me and, not content with that, to bash my wife's country of origin. Get off this thread immediately.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

fencewalker said:


> I posted a response to this yesterday but apparently it was taken down because of the strong language. So I'll try again... You insulted me and, knowing only that my wife is from Thailand, you made the generalization that she is from a poor, uneducated background and only got married to earn a green card. You also made the unbelievably hypocritical and xenophobic statement that in her culture, girls put up with male misbehavior whereas a westerner wouldn't, despite the fact that you have no doubt read dozens of examples on this site of western women putting up with all kinds of ****. You clearly have zero interest in making any constructive comments. Your only desire here is to bash me and, not content with that, to bash my wife's country of origin. Get off this thread immediately.


It is not my intention to offend you at all, it seems I have hit some raw nerves there.I wonder do you think about how you offend your wife in letting her know she is not good enough for you physically. It appears to me you are one of those men who can dish it out but cannot take it when they are confronted with some home truths. I don't even know you so why would i be interested in bashing you and most definitely not your poor wife, I think she has enough to contend with in you. 

You are the one who posted that you had to marry her otherwise she would have had to go back to Thailand,. Let me remind you *My wife is not from the U.S. If I hadn’t married her, she would have gone back to Thailand and I would have never seen her again, so I had to make a decision. *

There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about saying what I said about the culture, in fact I live in Asia and married into a different but similar culture. You cannot say that culture doesn't matter, cause it does, there is lots of research to back that up not just simply anecdotal evidence. And I repeat, Asian women are very different from Western women in terms of what male behavior they will accept in a relationship. Pointing out cultural differences is not 'bashing' the country and saying one approach is better than another approach. So take your head out of your ass and use it. Instead you sidestepped everything I said (which was supposition to be sure), did not address it and instead attacked. Deflection at its best. 

I can only guess from your angry response that perhaps my suppostitions were not too far from the reality of your relationship.


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

aine said:


> It is not my intention to offend you at all...


Really? "OP by his own admission was not very experienced sexually until he met her, a bit of a clue as to his attractiveness perhaps. My bet is that OP is not a perfect male specimen in any sense of the word..." Sounds pretty offensive to me.



aine said:


> I wonder do you think about how you offend your wife in letting her know she is not good enough for you physically.


I know you have been reading what I've been posting so you know that this _is_ something that I worry about.



aine said:


> It appears to me you are one of those men who can dish it out but cannot take it when they are confronted with some home truths.


I am one of those men who will defend myself when I'm insulted. I am on here seeking help from people who may be in a similar situation or who simply feel they have some constructive advice. That includes advice which I may not agree with but it does not include insults.



aine said:


> You are the one who posted that you had to marry her otherwise she would have had to go back to Thailand,. Let me remind you *My wife is not from the U.S. If I hadn’t married her, she would have gone back to Thailand and I would have never seen her again, so I had to make a decision.*


This may be an honest misunderstanding. My wife did not marry me to stay in the U.S. It was her plan all along to travel a bit, get some work experience, and then go back to Thailand. She stayed here because she met me. She didn't use me to stay here.



aine said:


> And I repeat, Asian women are very different from Western women in terms of what male behavior they will accept in a relationship.


Again, you've been on this site long enough to know that Western women, and men for that matter, put up with plenty. In particular, there are many couples who are in pretty much the same situation I am.



aine said:


> Pointing out cultural differences is not 'bashing' the country...


No, but this is... "In addition he does not want to have children, because maybe she is not really mother of his kids material (after all she was from an uneducated, poor English speaking, poor background)..." As I said before, knowing only that my wife is from Thailand, you assumed she was poor and uneducated. I would call that bashing a country. In fact, my wife is college educated and would have had no trouble making a career for herself back home. In addition, I said in my opening post that I would like to have kids and that my wife has tons of experience working with kids so screw you very much for suggesting that my wife is not mother material.



aine said:


> So take your head out of your ass and use it. Instead you sidestepped everything I said (which was supposition to be sure), did not address it and instead attacked. Deflection at its best.


Here's some advice if you genuinely want to help people here. Keep your damn suppositions to yourself. If you want to know something, ask. And I think I did address your comments, though I notice that in your attempt to defend your comments, _you_ did not address your assumption that my wife was poor and uneducated simply because she was from Thailand.

I've now wasted way too much of my time arguing with you. I will do so no longer. Make whatever final snarky comment you're going to make, and then please get off this thread.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

fencewalker said:


> *Monogamy*
> Years ago, I never devoted much thought to marriage as an institution. I just accepted it. After years of marriage and a lot of thought and reading (“Sex at Dawn”, “Marriage, a History”), I have come to the firm conclusion that humans, generally speaking, are not a monogamous species.


What's the name of the girl with the big boobs you met?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

fencewalker said:


> Really? "OP by his own admission was not very experienced sexually until he met her, a bit of a clue as to his attractiveness perhaps. My bet is that OP is not a perfect male specimen in any sense of the word..." Sounds pretty offensive to me.
> 
> 
> I know you have been reading what I've been posting so you know that this _is_ something that I worry about.
> ...



Yup, I feel the same way, i don't want to waste my time arguing with you. You only want to see what you want to see which is surprising for an educator!

You yourself said your wife was a nanny when you met her and you helped her to get an education in the US (all your own postings). We have nannies here too (from Thailand, Philippines, etc) and I think I might know as much about Asia as you do and the qualifications necessary to be a nanny. Now if you had been an international school teacher (who had traveled around the world) then maybe I would defer to you.
AND i never said she wasn't mother material, I said maybe you thought that considering you are so fixated on the external. In fact she is probably far too good for you and knowing many fine women from Thailand, they make great mothers and wives.
Anyway, your attitude shines bright through your comments (and not like a diamond), it is all about you and what you want. Perhaps instead of looking for constructive advice on how you can get what you want, you consider doing some self reflection and inner work and become a better man and remove the focus from yourself and really see what it is that you have to be thankful for.


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## fencewalker (Apr 17, 2020)

aine said:


> really see what it is that you have to be thankful for.


This much I agree with. Thank you for the constructive advice.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

This typical attitude:


Livvie said:


> -snip-
> I fervently hope some day you get to feel continual sexual rejection due to what some body part of yours looks like.
> -snip-


And this certain truth:


Rowan said:


> -snip-
> There are few things more soul destroying that spending your life being told - by someone who purportedly loves you - that you are not, will never be, enough.
> -snip-


Are precisely the reason that I will:


Spicy said:


> -snip-
> Never get married again.


Thanks gals for filling in the blanks.


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## jorginator (Oct 25, 2021)

Girl_power said:


> Wow I don’t even know where to begin...
> 
> Our sexuality is one of many parts of who we are. Sex is one of many aspects that make up our relationships with our spouse. You have tunnel vision on one part of your relationship, you need to step back and take a look at the whole picture.
> 
> ...


agree 100%. btw u really thing ur body has no flaws at all. u got a slamdunk of a wife there. get ur head out of ur ass.and enjoy. nada wrong with porn and strip clubs. in moderation. but stop comparing girls who use their beauty for living with ur wife. we all know, strippers are hot untill u talk to them.


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## jorginator (Oct 25, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> Regarding her tatas, a friend's daddy told her when she was whining about her little ones "Darling, anything more than a mouthful is a waste".
> 
> You love your wife, yes? Then let her go so she can find a man with whom to have children before her biological clock runs out. Don't be selfish in the guise of being noble.


and btw i am sure she would never say anything about ur **** on a forum. i think u have some growing up too. feel horrible for her.


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## jorginator (Oct 25, 2021)

badsanta said:


> I am fairly certain that the male brain is instinctively wired to associate breast attributes with improved odds of offspring survival. That instinct results in strong sexual arousal when an ideal breast attributes are encountered. Porn thrives on exactly this and tends to overstimulate that part of a male's brain.
> 
> Awkwardly I don't think breast "size" has anything to really do with it. For example if the OP looks at an ideal pair of breasts on a transgendered man, will he still get aroused? If so, is this arousal triggered exclusively by one's breast size or some other attribute(s)? In my opinion the arousal is likely triggered by "novelty" in that the pair of breast being viewed are something new and different to the one's seen before.
> 
> ...


i just do understand why breast size matter. should he be super hard and horny when he sees how horny he makes her. i huess its this facebook generation. i see nothing but big breast that must be good. i am sure she would never complain about ur flaws. and i am sure he has some. physical or mental. hope she we will be happy


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

jorginator said:


> and btw i am sure she would never say anything about ur **** on a forum. i think u have some growing up too. feel horrible for her.


Put down the bottle and go to bed.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Zombie thread.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

OP: Dude, you have issues.

there is a whole kinky branch of sex related to tiny breasted women! check it out. 
get her to wear thin blouses with no bra, so you can notice her nipples getting erect when she is horny.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

I think the main problem is the OP shouldn’t have married her knowing breast size was an issue although I know he explained the reason why.

I also agree with him when he said about why marriage isn’t suited to human beings. The number of failed marriages is consistent with that.

Personally I couldn’t be with someone with small beasts. When I say small I’m talking basically 2 nipples and that’s about it. Like a boys body. It’s not for me and I’m not attracted to it.

During a split with my wife I met someone and ended up having sex a couple of times. She was keen to develop the relationship but I the breast size was a deal breaker, breasts excite me, two nipples alone don’t and that’s just the way I feel. Nothing anyone will say or do will change that. 

I also seen someone give advice to the OP about God and Jesus etc. What’s that got to
do with anything? The church is the only cult that isn’t universally vilified for brain washing people.

This marriage is doomed. Divorce is the only answer.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Porn and strip clubs is why you no longer find your wife attractive. The grass is always greener. Even if you replaced her with a D, you'd soon find yourself wanting a GG. You need to lay off of both unless you are really disgusted with your marriage in general and just need to get out.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

I wonder what happened to OP.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

BIL310 said:


> I think the main problem is the OP shouldn’t have married her knowing breast size was an issue although I know he explained the reason why.
> 
> I also agree with him when he said about why marriage isn’t suited to human beings. The number of failed marriages is consistent with that.
> 
> ...


i like boobs too!
I am just saying that some men have figured out how to be turned on by small boobs.
Maybe the OP can retrain his mind by watching "small boob porn". find some sex groups where guys talk about their small boobed GFs. Have her dress to accentuate a certain look.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Apologies, obsessing over wife's boob size seems rather shallow in the opinion of his old man. What will he do if medical problems necessitate them being totally removed? If he feels the need to frequent the strip clubs in order to function, he ought to have the decency to set his wife free to find someone who loves her unconditionally. Then he can spend all of his free time in the clubs.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Spicy said:


> Free this woman to find a man that will love her for who she is, and not cheat on her through strip clubs, porn and chat rooms.
> 
> Never get married again.


Or make sure each potential LTR understands that, when her breasts lose shape and sag, you’re going to be trading her in for a new model. Be kind and make sure there’s a prenup that protects HER from the inevitable.

I don’t see anything changing the way you feel about this. Women deserve better than a guy who is so hard-wired around a physical attribute that can’t be presumed to last. A relationship should build desire from internal positive thoughts. It sounds like you couldn’t feel much for your wife even if she wrote the book on amazing sex. All you’ll be thinking about is that she doesn’t have bouncing boobs.


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