# I have saved a marriage of not quite 20 years, here's how



## BassGuy919

*Disclaimer: (I may have) saved a marriage, I don't know, but maybe this post can help*

_Disclaimer: The original title of this post was *"I have just barely saved a marriage that is days shy of 20 years old" and was then edited to the even more obnoxious "I have saved a marriage of not quite 20 years, here's how"*. If I could change it again, believe me I would, but after so many replies I guess you lose that option.
First, let me say that I don't know if my marriage is saved or not. This first post was made when I was feeling good about the way things were going in my relationship. I didn't mean to come off as a know-it-all, or worse a fool. It apparently rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. So I'm sorry about that. But there was also a lot of trolls and negative nellies posting in response. The only thing I was trying to do was to help other people. The main idea I was trying to get across (rather ironically in retrospect) is that communication is key to a good relationship. My wife and I were having horrible fights that were often very destructive and ended with one or both of us either regretting what we said or did, or being very resentful at the other person because of what was said. That certainly wasn't helping our relationship out. Our therapist gave us these ground rules for fighting and for your benefit, they are posted below. This is not some magic cure. Sorry if I made sound like it was. All these rules do is (if you and your partner are willing to stick to them) is keep you from making things worse and maybe, and just maybe mind you, get you moving in the direction of healing your relationship by clearly and calmly expressing what you feel is wrong or what you need from your partner. You can't fix what you don't even know is broken. If you express yourself better and your partner learns to listen better, many disagreements get be settled amicably. Again, communication was/is at root of most of the problems in my and many other marriages. These fighting rules are just a tool to help troubled partners fight in way that is constructive and NOT destructive. - RubenDLR
_

My wife and I are just now getting out of a very rough spot. Next week on the 23rd of March, 2016 we will celebrate our 20th anniversary. For awhile I didn't think we were going to make it to 20. 

A little less than 2 months ago, my wife dropped a bombshell. After having a couple of drinks as we often do on the weekend together, she apparently worked up enough nerve to tell me that "although she still loved me, she was no longer in love with me and that she wanted to be 'single'". Her words, almost verbatim.

Well, suffice it to say I did not take the news well.
Some of the things I did really didn't help. I cried, I yelled, I attempted to guilt, shame, and scare her into staying. I used our financial situation as leverage, reminding her that the lion's share of our income was being generated by me.

Well none of this worked, and in fact, it made her resentful and pushed her even further away. I almost blew it.

So what happened? What changed? Well first I stopped trying to influence her directly. I tried to be more upbeat, and we started talking, a lot. You can only change yourself. But if you change, your partners reactions to you and your actions will likely change as well.

There were things I didn't know about that I needed to hear. Some of them were not pleasant, but how can you fix something if you don't even know that it's broken? I was a bad listener for one, sometimes unbeknownst to me I sucked in the sack. I was stuck too much in my own head and viewpoint and was not seeing things from her side. 

So my advice to any other person, especially husbands facing this issue, is don't panic, don't overreact. You are only going to antagonize your wife and make the situation worse.

I strove to be a better listener to my wife, and to be more sympathetic to her needs, wants, and opinions. She felt valued, and in turn was more open to expressing affection toward me, which is the way I feel loved. 

I don't think we are a typical example, but I wanted to put this out there if helps anyone. We went to counseling, and we were taught how to fight. Yes, actually instructed on how to have an argument with each other. The purpose of an argument is to reach a consensus or comprise that is acceptable to both parties. When your are fighting without either a set of rules or a clear objective or worse yet neither of those things you get miscommunication and emotional and not intellectual responses. This quickly deteriorates to anarchy and stuff gets broken, and people get hurt.

So let me give you the rules, they help. I hope my therapist doesn't mind me doing so. I doubt he does because his goal is to help people. I hope this helps someone. 

10 RULES FOR FAIR FIGHTING

1.	Listen completely to the other person's point of view before expressing yours and try to understand what their point is.

2.	Be respectful of their opinion; even though it's not your point of view, it deserves respect

3.	No belittling the other person or their ideas.

4.	NO SARCASM!

5.	No name calling or swearing at the other person.

6.	Don't gunnysack; stick to the subject at hand! Do not bring up old arguments or other things that have nothing to do with the current argument itself.

7.	STAY RELEVANT

8.	Realize that in general there is no right or wrong in an argument* only differing points of view.

9.	Take several deep breaths, count to 10, and remind yourself why you love the other person.

1O. Ask yourself, "How important will this argument be to me in 10 years?"

Remember that who started the argument is irrelevant. The important thing is to resolve it as quickly as possible, in a manner that will strengthen your love for each other and bring you both greater understanding of each other.

COMMUNICATION AVOIDS CONFRONTATION

God bless and good luck in saving your marriage.

RubenDLR


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## GusPolinski

*Re: I have just barely saved a marriage that is days shy of 20 years old*

So did you find out who she was seeing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BassGuy919

*Re: I have just barely saved a marriage that is days shy of 20 years old*

That's not very helpful or funny. But, in truth, I know she was starting to window shop, but she hadn't bought anything. That was one of the reasons she told me she wanted out. She wanted to be respectful of our marriage, and didn't want to have an affair without at least telling me how she felt. I wasn't giving her what she needs, but she wanted to tell me before she went outside the marriage to address her needs.

I am not selling anything at all, I am sincerely sharing information I have learned the hard way in hopes that it would help someone else out.

Snide comments are not appreciated. If you were trying to be cute, you did not succeed. The you were honestly asking that question, you could have been more diplomatic in your approach.


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## ConanHub

Glad you two turned it around.

Good rules for fighting as well.

If I missed it, Were you able to better satisfy her in bed?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

*Re: I have just barely saved a marriage that is days shy of 20 years old*



rubendlr said:


> That's not very helpful or funny


It's kinda both, actually.

Admittedly, though, its helpfulness is at least significantly lessened if all you did was bury your head in the sand while swallowing all the stale platitudes your "therapist" could offer up.



rubendlr said:


> In truth, I know she was starting to window shop, but she hadn't bought anything.


That's probably a lie.

But is it hers, yours, or both?

And did you even bother asking?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BassGuy919

I believe that I am addressing the issues she brought up. She quoted a yoga guru who said, "Foreplay doesn't start a few minutes before sex. Foreplay is how you treat your partner daily." By talking and listening more to her, she felt more connected to me, which made her more receptive to physical intimacy. 

But specifically yes, I added a lot of manual foreplay before penetration. So either I made come with my hands first, or almost come and then I had a lot less distance to travel so to speak when we finally got to penetrative sex. 

I hope that this helps someone too.


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## EllisRedding

May I ask, so it sounds like the potential failure of your marriage was your fault (at least that is how it is laid out in your OP). You mention:



> I strove to be a better listener to my wife, and to be more sympathetic to her needs, wants, and opinions. She felt valued, and in turn was more open to expressing affection toward me, which is the way I feel loved.


The success of your marriage depends on you doing XYZ and then your wife deciding if it is enough to reciprocate?

Also, you mentioned you were a bad listener, and pointed specifically to sucking donkey balls in the sack (I may have paraphrased here). So does this mean your W was trying to give you guidance about the sucking and you didn't listen, or was this ever communicated to you directly?

Also, did JLD put you up to this post :grin2:


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## BassGuy919

*Re: I have just barely saved a marriage that is days shy of 20 years old*

I did bother asking, actually. Though, I have no proof that what she said is true. If there is no trust or honesty then there really isn't a basis for the relationship anyway.


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## GuyInColorado

Nothing wrong with letting her go and starting over. In my state, 20+years of marriage can mean life time alimony. Definitely a reason to stay in a miserable marriage if you let it go that far.

Not sure how I could be someone with that doesn't desire me.

Hope it works out for you.


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## BassGuy919

I am really kind of surprised by the tone of some these comments, actually. I have no idea who JLD is. I just thought this was an open forum on marriage and marriage issues.

Again I was just trying to help someone else. Instead I am belittled and made fun of.

It seems that at least one of these guys is a troll from way back. So what ever.

If my wife cheated, I don't know about it. I can choose to take her at her word or not.
You can believe what you wish, it is of no consequence to me.

If anyone finds help from my post, even if it's just to provide some modicum of hope then I have done what I sought to do.

RubenDLR


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## threelittlestars

She was more than window shopping. She had one picked out and she was saving up the money. Maybe she was not making moves, but by your own admission you never bothered to ask to see her email, phone etc, because that signifies no trust. Well honey her wanting to be SINGLE shows that you CANT trust her to be in your relationship. You just don't realize that you have lost trust in her, you are just deluding yourself into thinking you actually DO trust her. You are crossing your fingers and looking the other direction. 

Good points in your post though. I'm sure i could have used that last night for the doozy of an argument i had with my husband.

Sorry if you feel we are poking holes in your perceived progress. I know it may feel like things are on track, but you don't actually know it in your bones because you never took the x-ray. 

Dig, i highly recommend it. If you find nothing then you KNOW you can trust her.


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## zzzman99

rubendlr said:


> I am really kind of surprised by the tone of some these comments, actually. I have no idea who JLD is. I just thought this was an open forum on marriage and marriage issues.
> 
> Again I was just trying to help someone else. Instead I am belittled and made fun of.
> 
> It seems that at least one of these guys is a troll from way back. So what ever.
> 
> If my wife cheated, I don't know about it. I can choose to take her at her word or not.
> You can believe what you wish, it is of no consequence to me.
> 
> If anyone finds help from my post, even if it's just to provide some modicum of hope then I have done what I sought to do.
> 
> RubenDLR


Chill


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## samyeagar

rubendlr said:


> I really kind of surprised by the tone of some these comments, actually. I have no idea who JLD is. I just thought this was an open forum on marriage and marriage issues.
> 
> Again I was just trying to help someone else. Instead I am belittled and made fun of.


It is an open forum, and I don't doubt your motives, and am glad you posted. The thing is, what you have posted here is nothing new from the I love you but am not in love with you speech your wife gave you, to what you discovered to placate the situation. Look up and research Walk Away Wife Syndrome...

Unfortunately, more often than not, the problems were never really fixed by simple compliance. More often than not, it leads to being a doormat and continuing misery. Not saying that is for sure your situation, but yours would certainly be the very rare exception that you want to believe it is.

JLD is a regular poster here who in short believes that it is the mans responsibility to carry his wife and marriage, and anything that goes wrong is ultimately his fault, and responsibility to fix. Her marital dynamic is not one of equals, but one of a parent and child where the husband is the parent, and the wife is the child.


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## rzmpf

rubendlr said:


> Again I was just trying to help someone else. Instead I am belittled and made fun of.


May be because for me your advice is limited to

-be able to conduct a civilized and meaningful argument/discussion (I would assume that that is a given, not always possible but at least most of the time)
and
-give your wife more foreplay and orgasms.

Seems rather superficial but from your comments I can only conclude that your wife's problem was her not orgasming enough.
And she didn't tell you that? Because you were not able to have a civilized discussion or what?

No issue about taking time for her, how did you treat her the whole day, do you have kids, was she at home, how did you value her work (career or at home). Basically how was your marriage life, how a typical day or weekend? There is a plethora of information that would make your story more valuable for others.
Now it's just ,"Argue in a civilized manner and f*** her better and all will be good.".

Others have already spoken about other problems in your statement, basically her side of the relationship is missing and it reads like a newly opened "my wife doesn't love me any more and I don't know why" thread when you should be able to provide a much broader picture since you saved your marriage and should have all these informations others come here to learn how to aquire them (or are unaware that they should aquire them).

Doesn't mean your post is unnecessary, just means it's lacking helpful information.


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## EllisRedding

@rubendlr

Honestly, any time someone is able to save their marriage I consider that a huge positive, so don't take the questioning here to mean people disapprove.

For me personally, I am just trying to understand a little better since nowhere in your OP is there an indication that your wife had any role in the deterioration of your marriage. Also, the concern is that your W said she wanted to be single. So to me, adding this all up with your post, it would appear that at any point if she decides you aren't doing enough she will just throw out there the single card. 

So I am curious, do you feel like currently it is all on you to make the marriage work? Also, can you expand on what parts of your marital issues do you believe your W contributed to? Just trying to see the full picture here.


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## BassGuy919

threelittlestars said:


> She was more than window shopping. She had one picked out and she was saving up the money. Maybe she was not making moves, but by your own admission you never bothered to ask to see her email, phone etc, because that signifies no trust. Well honey her wanting to be SINGLE shows that you CANT trust her to be in your relationship.
> 
> Sorry if you feel we are poking holes in your perceived progress. I know it may feel like things are on track, but you don't actually know it in your bones because you never took the x-ray.
> 
> Dig, i highly recommend it. If you find nothing then you KNOW you can trust her.


Thanks for the advice, now that was a constructive critical response and I DO appreciate that.


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## BassGuy919

EllisRedding said:


> @rubendlr
> 
> Honestly, any time someone is able to save their marriage I consider that a huge positive, so don't take the questioning here to mean people disapprove.
> 
> For me personally, I am just trying to understand a little better since nowhere in your OP is there an indication that your wife had any role in the deterioration of your marriage. Also, the concern is that your W said she wanted to be single. So to me, adding this all up with your post, it would appear that at any point if she decides you aren't doing enough she will just throw out there the single card.
> 
> So I am curious, do you feel like currently it is all on you to make the marriage work? Also, can you expand on what parts of your marital issues do you believe your W contributed to? Just trying to see the full picture here.


Ok this is also good feedback. I didn't really mean to generalize.
I thought I was being wordy enough. Ok. Yes, my wife of course has some culpability in all this. One, she wasn't communicating her feelings and needs well. She also was keeping score. A relationship should not have a scoreboard. She was holding on to things from the past and throwing them in my face when it benefitted her. She is definitely no angel. She has a bad temper and she holds grudges. No one is perfect. No one.

The main advice I was trying to give was one, not to argue without a set of ground rules, and two, communication is absolutely the cornerstone of a good relationship. You really have to be clear and not make assumptions, you have to listen well and express well.

Sex is important as well, but not every woman can be satisfied by the same means. I posted what worked for me, but your mileage may vary. That was not the focus of my post, however, the communication was. People asked for specifics though, and I tried to answer them. 

Sorry if I'm coming across as being testy, but geez, come on.

I am sorry if anything I said came across as insincere or overly optimistic or any other negative perception you may have had. I just wanted to express my personal situation somewhere and maybe help someone who is in the same place as me not to make the same mistakes.

RDLR


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## karole

If you found out that she was actually in an affair or close to one, be it physical or emotional - would that be a deal breaker for you?


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## BassGuy919

karole said:


> If you found out that she was actually in an affair or close to one, be it physical or emotional - would that be a deal breaker for you?


A physical affair would be a deal breaker for me. Or at least I have always thought it would be.

I have asked her straight out if there is someone else, and she said no. I have looked at emails and phone, BTW. Either I am a horrible detective or she is really good at covering her tracks or both because I didn't really see anything to give me pause.

Anyway, as I stated, if I can't trust this woman, then what the hell am I fighting to keep anyway? 

RDLR


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## Wolf1974

rubendlr said:


> Ok this is also good feedback. I didn't really mean to generalize.
> I thought I was being wordy enough. Ok. Yes, my wife of course has some culpability in all this. One, she wasn't communicating her feelings and needs well. She also was keeping score. A relationship should not have a scoreboard. She was holding on to things from the past and throwing them in my face when it benefitted her. She is definitely no angel. She has a bad temper and she holds grudges. No one is perfect. No one.
> 
> _*The main advice I was trying to give was one, not to argue without a set of ground rules, and two, communication is absolutely the cornerstone of a good relationship. You really have to be clear and not make assumptions, you have to listen well and express well.*_
> 
> Sex is important as well, but not every woman can be satisfied by the same means. I posted what worked for me, but your mileage may vary. That was not the focus of my post, however, the communication was. People asked for specifics though, and I tried to answer them.
> 
> Sorry if I'm coming across as being testy, but geez, come on.
> 
> I am sorry if anything I said came across as insincere or overly optimistic or any other negative perception you may have had. I just wanted to express my personal situation somewhere and maybe help someone who is in the same place as me not to make the same mistakes.
> 
> RDLR


Seems another point that was not done in your marriage was honest communication. She didn't get to a place of love you but not in love with you overnight. Million and one things bothered her but she didn't tell you about them or you didn't listen. Same for the lackluster love love. You can only take accountability for what you know and have to work with. Some, maybe a lot, of that is on her.


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## samyeagar

rubendlr said:


> A physical affair would be a deal breaker for me. Or at least I have always thought it would be.
> 
> I have asked her straight out if there is someone else, and she said no. I have looked at emails and phone, BTW. Either I am a horrible detective or she is really good at covering her tracks or both because I didn't really see anything to give me pause.
> 
> Anyway, as I stated, if I can't trust this woman, then *what the hell am I fighting to keep anyway?*
> 
> RDLR


Time always has a way of answering this question whether we like the answer or not.


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## BassGuy919

Wolf1974 said:


> Seems another point that was not done in your marriage was honest communication. She didn't get to a place of love you but not in love with you overnight. Million and one things bothered her but she didn't tell you about them or you didn't listen. Same for the lackluster love love. You can only take accountability for what you know and have to work with. Some, maybe a lot, of that is on her.


Thank your for that Wolf1974. Which is the point I was trying to make, you're right that she didn't get to where she was overnight. She either didn't make it clear that some things were wrong, or I ignored that they were, more than likely it was a little of both. So again to my point, it is communication that was the root of our issues, not bad sex, not really.

Most times, you can do something simple in the bedroom to spice things up. Take your time, do more warm up, use toys, take pills for ED if you have that. Try tantric exercises if you come too fast, etc. Try new positions, new places, wear costumes, lingerie, what ever. You get the point.

But actually getting your point across to another human being, not so easy. Especially if you have certain patterns, assumptions, and bad habits that have built up over 20 years. That's a lot harder to fix in my opinion.

I also don't have any delusions that all is well now. It is just that she has now verbally committed to the relationship, not just to me, but to our children, to our therapist, and even our friends. One our mutual friends, who felt like she was going to be forced to pick sides told me that my wife told her about our issues, and more importantly told her that she had a change of heart and no longer wanted to end the marriage but to work to fix it. So our friend was relieved, and wanted to tell me how much she knew, and also that she was happy for us and the turnaround.

So this is why I am more hopeful. But I also wanted others to know that, and I wanted to help other people. 

Did the rules for fighting save our marriage? No, neither did fingering my wife more before I screwed her to be as frank as some of you are.

What did then? Well both those things helped and or were helped by my wife and I learning after 20 years how to communicate better. 

Is everything fine? No it isn't. We have a lot of work to do. Things were said and done that can't be unsaid or undone. But we are moving in the right direction and have been given the right set of tools to fix the problems we have. 

We will we ultimately fail or succeed. I don't know. But I do know that the immediate danger has passed. That's not to say we won't be right back here in 6 months or a year out or two or five. But, I think now that it is more likely that we WON'T be in the same boat in the future. Why? Because now instead of me meekly or passive-aggressively agreeing to everything my wife does or says, if it rubs me the wrong way or I disagree, I express it instead of letting it turning to resentment later. My wife also won't let things slide and fester either, or at least she says she won't do that again. If she is unhappy, rather trying to spare my feelings, she now tells me that she is unhappy, and why, and then the two of us can decide what to do about it.

Do I have proof that she cheated or not? No, I do not have definitive proof either way.
But I now see her smile when she sees me for the first time after work. She tells me she loves me first, instead of in response. There is a warmth to her touch and her kiss. That IS proof to me that the wall she built between us has been torn down.

RDLR


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## TRy

rubendlr said:


> "although she still loved me, she was no longer in love with me and that she wanted to be 'single'"


 Her saying "she still loved me, she was no longer in love with me" is a version of "I Love You but I’m Not in Love With You". A spouse saying "I Love You but I’m Not in Love With You" is so common when a spouse is in an emotional affair ("EA") or physical affair ("PA") that the infidelity sections of varies site often abbreviate it to "ILYBINILWY". Google the phrase or the abbreviation "ILYBINILWY" and you will see what I mean. This is important for you to know because although it does not prove that she is in an EA or PA, the odds are real that she might be. You need to trust but verify. Do not confront, start really digging.


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## tech-novelist

If ILYBINILWY *doesn't* mean she was cheating on you or planning to, it would be the first time I've seen that, either here or in real life.
And I've seen a lot of examples where it did mean that.


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## TRy

rubendlr said:


> Do I have proof that she cheated or not? No, I do not have definitive proof either way.


 You may not have proof that she cheated but you have many red flags. 

1) You have the standard ILYBINILWY that all cheaters use.
2) Out of no where she was telling you that she wanted to be single. Going from zero to wanting a divorce with no warning is a common indicator of an affair. 
3) Saying that she was shopping other men is a much of an admission that there is another man that a cheater will ever give you.
3) Although she never told you this before, supposedly she has all of these many reason why you were a horrible husband. This is called reinventing history, where a cheater holds you to a standard of perfection that they know as a human you will fail, because they want you to fail so that they will not feel bad for having cheated on you. Most cheaters want to think of themselves as good people, and thus need to blame you for the affair. 



rubendlr said:


> But I now see her smile when she sees me for the first time after work. She tells me she loves me first, instead of in response. There is a warmth to her touch and her kiss. That IS proof to me that the wall she built between us has been torn down.


 It proves no such thing. In fact it indicates the exact opposite. If the wall she built was ever really there, and not just her reinventing history so as to be able to blame you, it would take much longer to take down than 2 months. If she is or was in an EA or PA, she has you doing the typical cheaters pick me dance of trying to win her back from her secret other man. It is a dance that will be hard for you to win, because whereas she told him all about you and your weaknesses, she has not told you that the other man even exists. Thus he has home field advantage with her and not you.


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## TeddieG

TRy said:


> You may not have proof that she cheated but you have many red flags.
> 
> 1) You have the standard ILYBINILWY that all cheaters use.
> 2) Out of no where she was telling you that she wanted to be single. Going from zero to wanting a divorce with no warning is a common indicator of an affair.
> 3) Saying that she was shopping other men is a much of an admission that there is another man that a cheater will ever give you.
> 3) Although she never told you this before, supposedly she has all of these many reason why you were a horrible husband. This is called reinventing history, where a cheater holds you to a standard of perfection that they know as a human you will fail, because they want you to fail so that they will not feel bad for having cheated on you. Most cheaters want to think of themselves as good people, and thus need to blame you for the affair.
> 
> It proves no such thing. In fact it indicates the exact opposite. *If the wall she built was ever really there, and not just her reinventing history so as to be able to blame you, it would take much longer to take down than 2 months. If she is or was in an EA or PA, she has you doing the typical cheaters pick me dance of trying to win her back from her secret other man. It is a dance that will be hard for you to win, because whereas she told him all about you and your weaknesses, she has not told you that the other man even exists. Thus he has home field advantage with her and not you*.


RubenDLR, this is really important. I loved the optimism and hope in your opening post. Let me share a little bit with you about my experience. My h came home one day and said "I love you but I'm not in love with you." He'd been acting strangely, withdrawing, being detached, but I thought it was because of a health issue he'd recently been dealing with. He didn't act like he wanted to leave, but it upset me, and then a few weeks later he confessed that he'd been unfaithful. 

Fast forward 8 years later and he left me and married the OW, although he "married" her before our divorce was final. But within 24 hours after the ILYBINILWY, I found a forum, and posted that h had said "ILYBINILWY," and the wise souls there said "watch for the next shoe to drop, there'll be another woman." I argued vehemently, oh hell no, my h would never do that to me. I left that forum for about three weeks, until he confessed about the OW, and then went back. They were right. I was wrong.

Now, you may very well be right that your wife got to you before it was too late, but also DO keep in mind that whatever issues my h had with me were all news to me when he confessed his infidelity (and he'd shared all kinds of stuff about me with OW, some of which she was happy to share with me when his determination to leave me flagged and home was looking attractive). I know my h had SOME issues, but he also had depression, health issues, ED, and he blamed ALL of those on ME and the fact that I wasn't making him happy. 

Just be careful and guard your heart and don't get TOO excited yet. When someone says "ILYBINILWY," there's been a lot going on in them, often that has nothing to do with you, for a long time, and you may not be out of the woods yet. Be happy, but be guarded.


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## MattMatt

*Re: I have just barely saved a marriage that is days shy of 20 years old*



rubendlr said:


> That's not very helpful or funny. But, in truth, I know she was starting to window shop, but she hadn't bought anything. That was one of the reasons she told me she wanted out. She wanted to be respectful of our marriage, and didn't want to have an affair without at least telling me how she felt. I wasn't giving her what she needs, but she wanted to tell me before she went outside the marriage to address her needs.
> 
> I am not selling anything at all, I am sincerely sharing information I have learned the hard way in hopes that it would help someone else out.
> 
> Snide comments are not appreciated. If you were trying to be cute, you did not succeed. The you were honestly asking that question, you could have been more diplomatic in your approach.


Gus was not joking. Nor was he being snide.

You will forgive some of us for being cynical. We have had the weasel words ourselves, so have experience in this area.


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## MachoMcCoy

You came to the wrong forum. All they care about is infidelity. They love those threads. If it's NOT about infidelity, they push it there anyhow. If they just can't steer it in that direction, they move on to find one where they can can.

Now this is where they all say "we have all been there, we know the signs". And when they are right, they all say "see, told you so". Ignoring all of those marriages they destroyed convincing a spouse his wife was in an affair when she WASN'T.

IF you yell "SHE'S CHEATING" every time, it doesn't count when you're "right".


----------



## MattMatt

MachoMcCoy said:


> You came to the wrong forum. All they care about is infidelity. They love those threads. If it's NOT about infidelity, they push it there anyhow. If they just can't steer it in that direction, they move on to find one where they can can.
> 
> Now this is where they all say "we have all been there, we know the signs". And when they are right, they all say "see, told you so". Ignoring all of those marriages they destroyed convincing a spouse his wife was in an affair when she WASN'T.
> 
> IF you yell "SHE'S CHEATING" every time, it doesn't count when you're "right".


Are you perhaps on the wrong forum Mr Macho?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marc878

Ignorance is bliss until it isn't.


----------



## TRy

MachoMcCoy said:


> You came to the wrong forum. All they care about is infidelity. They love those threads. If it's NOT about infidelity, they push it there anyhow. If they just can't steer it in that direction, they move on to find one where they can can.
> 
> Now this is where they all say "we have all been there, we know the signs". And when they are right, they all say "see, told you so". Ignoring all of those marriages they destroyed convincing a spouse his wife was in an affair when she WASN'T.
> 
> IF you yell "SHE'S CHEATING" every time, it doesn't count when you're "right".


 Actually we are not stating that she is cheating as a fact, but as a possibility that he needs to explore. I specifically stated that "although it does not prove that she is in an EA or PA, the odds are real that she might be. You need to trust but verify. Do not confront, start really digging". Do you believe that given the circumstance that her cheating is not a possibility that should be explored?


----------



## MachoMcCoy

TRy said:


> Do you believe that given the circumstance that her cheating is not a possibility that should be explored?


Explored? No. Because "explored" would imply this guy spends a lot of time digging. "Explored" means that a poster looking for help on an internet site that exists for the purpose of helping people through ALL TYPES of marriage issues will spend a large majority of his time reading "she's cheating, spy!". Telling him to "explore" will have this guy say "screw it, they don't know what I'm trying to say" and leave this forum not knowing his wife is still gone.

Mention that it's a possibility and to keep his eyes open, then get on to his problem.




rubendlr said:


> A little less than 2 months ago, my wife *dropped a bombshell*... "although she still loved me, she was no longer in love with me"....
> 
> I cried, I yelled, I attempted to guilt, shame, and scare her into staying.
> 
> Well none of this worked, and in fact, it made her resentful and pushed her even further away.
> 
> There were things I didn't know about that I needed to hear. I was stuck too much in my own head and viewpoint and was not seeing things from her side.
> 
> So my advice to any other person, especially husbands facing this issue, is don't panic, don't overreact. You are only going to antagonize your wife and make the situation worse.


You want to talk about red flags? Those aren't even red flags. Those statements are all solid proof that his wife has left the marriage emotionally. I've bastardized Oprah's old term and call it "walk-away-wife". Some know it as the "ILYBINILWY". It's the same pattern, over and over and over...




rubendlr said:


> I don't think we are a typical example...


He doesn't even know he is a typical husband. Amazing.


Look at that bolded part. Why was he "shocked"? Why are we all shocked? Because we didn't know it had happened!! This guy wasn't even supposed to find out. She was drunk and blurted it out. I wasn't supposed to find out. I pestered my wife until she blurted out the 7 words that forever changed my life. Unfortunately, she didn't know how much reading I had done on these forums up until then and FULLY understood what those words were. She was trying to deflect and it failed.

So what Macho?

Because of all of the WAW's we know about, there are 10 times as many who haven't "spilled the beans" yet, intentionally or not. Those are the ones we need to reach. Those are the ones that can be saved.

I don't care if she's cheating. It's not the problem. If she IS cheating, the marriage is over. If she's NOT cheating, he ignores the real problem (for how long?) while pushing her away further.

When I got my "shocked" moment, my wife knew she blew it. She made an "effort" to work on things. Sex went from 3 times a year to three times a DAY. 

We also made progress on other things. Kind of like "learning how to argue" type things.

We're still together a few years later. Sex is back to three times a year. We don't "argue so good" any more. But I'm older, balder...more stuck.

"Keep your eyes open for the possibility that there could be another man"? Sure. But as I've said in other threads, even if they ARE cheating, they walked first. They stopped being "IN love" with you first.

Am I right? Who knows. But in all of these WAW threads, it's almost ALWAYS the guys doing the "she's cheating" chant. I don't know what that means, but my gut tells me it's important.


----------



## aine

I have every reason to be cynical and jaded yet appreciate the OP's post. Give him a break. Most problems in marriage start with lack of communication and fighting. Learning how to fight is useful imho. 
Glad you turned around the marriage, hope it can continue.


----------



## Married but Happy

tech-novelist said:


> If ILYBINILWY *doesn't* mean she was cheating on you or planning to, it would be the first time I've seen that, either here or in real life.
> And I've seen a lot of examples where it did mean that.


Let me be your first, then! I told my ex ILYBINILWY, and I wasn't cheating or having an emotional affair. I was just fed up with the marriage and lack of positive change. Once I separated from her, THEN I started looking and dating.


----------



## Blonde

> I am really kind of surprised by the tone of some these comments, actually. I have no idea who JLD is. I just thought this was an open forum on marriage and marriage issues.
> 
> Again I was just trying to help someone else. *Instead I am belittled and made fun of*.


Welcome to TAM 

Ruben, yes it is a "marriage forum" but an unhealthy one. There seem to be an inordinate number of bitter angry betrayed husbands who cannot get past it and project their own experience into posts like yours.

Bagdon- http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/85369-she-said-w-man-i-dont-love.html - has an inspirational story and he did not stick around here and get his mind poisoned against healing his marriage. He's off living "happily ever after" because he got to work on his side of the street.

I love your humility and willingness to grow! 
May your tribe increase! :grin2:


----------



## GusPolinski

MachoMcCoy said:


> You came to the wrong forum. All they care about is infidelity. They love those threads. If it's NOT about infidelity, they push it there anyhow. If they just can't steer it in that direction, they move on to find one where they can can.
> 
> Now this is where they all say "we have all been there, we know the signs". And when they are right, they all say "see, told you so". Ignoring all of those marriages they destroyed convincing a spouse his wife was in an affair when she WASN'T.
> 
> IF you yell "SHE'S CHEATING" every time, it doesn't count when you're "right".




Quite a turn from your comments in the "Vegas bachelorette party" thread, wouldn't you say?


----------



## GusPolinski

Blonde said:


> Welcome to TAM
> 
> Ruben, yes it is a "marriage forum" but an unhealthy one. *There seem to be an inordinate number of bitter angry betrayed husbands who cannot get past it and project their own experience into posts like yours.*
> 
> Bagdon- http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/85369-she-said-w-man-i-dont-love.html - has an inspirational story and he did not stick around here and get his mind poisoned against healing his marriage. He's off living "happily ever after" because he got to work on his side of the street.
> 
> I love your humility and willingness to grow!
> May your tribe increase! :grin2:


Or... 

...people who just know how to read.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

Blonde said:


> Ruben, yes it is a "marriage forum" but an unhealthy one.


I thought I was pushing the envelope by implying that. 



Blonde said:


> There seem to be an inordinate number of bitter angry betrayed husbands who cannot get past it and project their own experience into posts like yours.


Guilty. But this doesn't even make sense. She started loving him again because he learned how to argue? My point is that ANYTHING he tried would have "worked". Doesn't it almost seem like it was a little too easy? She's just back to keeping it underground. Not her affair, but the fact that she doesn't love him. 

You know what poll I'd like to see? How many women are miserable in their marriages and/or don't really like their husbands and/or are really repulsed by sex with them AND are positive the idiot doesn't know it. 

THAT'S what I'd like to know. One vote for my wife. One for the OP's as well. He MAY have turned it around, but she walked and he didn't know it. It was a "bomb dropped", remember? 

Any ladies want to vote?


----------



## MachoMcCoy

She's a walk-away. She's not in love with you any more. She said so in a moment of drunken honesty. 

Nobody has to project anything to say that.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

GusPolinski said:


> Quite a turn from your comments in the "Vegas bachelorette party" thread, wouldn't you say?


I wonder how the trip went. You KNOW she ended up going.


----------



## Blonde

MachoMcCoy said:


> I
> Guilty. But this doesn't even make sense. She started loving him again *because he learned how to argue*?


Read this



> You know what poll I'd like to see? How many women are miserable in their marriages and/or don't really like their husbands and/or are really repulsed by sex with them AND are positive the idiot doesn't know it.
> 
> THAT'S what I'd like to know. One vote for my wife. One for the OP's as well. He MAY have turned it around, but she walked and he didn't know it. It was a "bomb dropped", remember?
> 
> Any ladies want to vote?


As for me, if I am unhappy, there is really no hiding it. I couldn't hide it if I wanted to.

Sounds like you KNOW your W is unhappy. You have no doubt. 
Does your wife greet you like this? 



> I now see her smile when she sees me for the first time after work. She tells me she loves me first, instead of in response. There is a warmth to her touch and her kiss.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

She had her own way of exhibiting false reconciliation.


----------



## lifeistooshort

How can one be so clueless as to not know their spouse is unhappy? 

Ime it's because they're self centered and the marriage is working for them so nothing else matters. 

When he or she walks it's much easier to scream cheating them to face one's failure to give a rats behind about their spouse. 

Everyone is self centered to some degree..... it's the human way. But many are stuck in the mindset of "but but but we took vows! Don't they mean anything? ".

Yes, but usually such a statement refers to the stay married vow while conveniently forgetting about the love, honor and cherish vow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3Xnocharm

I'm glad things are turning around for you guys, but two months is really too soon to say that you have SAVED it. Sorry. If you can come back here in a year and things are still on the upswing, then yeah. I do wish you continued success.


----------



## bc3543

MachoMcCoy said:


> She's a walk-away. She's not in love with you any more. She said so in a moment of drunken honesty.
> 
> Nobody has to project anything to say that.


Are you saying its impossible to come back from that?



MachoMcCoy said:


> She started loving him again because he learned how to argue? My point is that ANYTHING he tried would have "worked". Doesn't it almost seem like it was a little too easy? She's just back to keeping it underground. Not her affair, but the fact that she doesn't love him.
> You know what poll I'd like to see? How many women are miserable in their marriages and/or don't really like their husbands and/or are really repulsed by sex with them AND are positive the idiot doesn't know it.


What if the wife WAS repulsed by sex and not really in love, or at best engaged in duty sex 1-2 times a week, then Everything changed?

What if they did learn to fight right, and to communicate? What if he learned to listen to her heart and to spend huge amounts of uninterrupted time together. What if sex went from 1-2 times a week to nearly every day, with her initiating most of it, and both spouses coming up with a bucket list of sex ideas they wanted from the other, and started checking off the list month by month?

What if the wife told her husband that she was forever grateful to him for "fixing us", for being willing to see the problems that were there and actually deal with them? That she was happier now than she had ever been in marriage?

So are you saying all of that is just a WaW going back underground to keep her husband in the dark that she isn't in love with him anymore and wont admit it? The OP was basically us a year ago. That last paragraph is us now.


----------



## BassGuy919

Thanks for the show of support from those who have actually have been supportive. 

I didn't mean to cause infighting on this thread, nor was I intending to HAVE TO defend any and every statement I made.

I agree that my thread title/subject is overly optimistic. I really don't know that I have saved my marriage. But I think we are moving in the right direction. 

As far as my wife having an affair, I have both dug around some and confronted her about an affair, and I am satisfied with her answer, and ultimately it's only my feelings and state of mind that matters, because it's my relationship, not any of yours. 

I am sorry if some of you didn't manage to turn around a relationship you wanted to turn around, or if some of you had bad experiences that may superficially appear to be similar to mine. I didn't mean to come off as a braggart or know-it-all. That never was my intention. However, even if it were, this by no means justifies anyone to bring me down a peg if you think otherwise.

I was simply and apparently very naively thinking I could help someone else in a similar predicament as I am in. I am not going to resort to a flame war to justify my stance. That _is_ truly sad. If you find my advice helpful, good. If not, that's fine as well. If I oversimplified my very complex relationship issues, sorry, but again I meant no harm.

No one need to take upon themselves to warn me or school me, or let me know that I'm being taken for a ride. I have a good and trusted therapist, who has helped me in the past and is now helping my wife and I both. I feel if this truly is or was an issue, it will come up in our sessions. You are free to think or feel otherwise, but I am not going to argue this or any other statement.

I now think it was a mistake to post here, and I am sorry if I offended or upset anyone. 

Finally, thanks again to those who were kind to me or at least thought they had my best interests in mind when they responded.

I wish you all luck and love.

RDLR


----------



## TRy

lifeistooshort said:


> How can one be so clueless as to not know their spouse is unhappy?
> 
> Ime it's because they're self centered and the marriage is working for them so nothing else matters.
> 
> When he or she walks it's much easier to scream cheating them to face one's failure to give a rats behind about their spouse.


 Or the husband is clueless that she found another man (she did admit that she was shopping), and thus she is reinventing history and pointing out that as a human he is not perfect to justify her exit. He quickly took responsibility for his part in the marriage, and responded with a lot of effort once she let him know what she wanted, so it sounds like he is a pretty good spouse that that would have responded sooner had she ever really communicated with him about it.


----------



## TRy

rubendlr said:


> I agree that my thread title/subject is overly optimistic. I really don't know that I have saved my marriage. But I think we are moving in the right direction.


 Had you said in your opening post that "I really don't know that I have saved my marriage. But I think we are moving in the right direction, here is how", and titled it "I think we are moving in the right direction, here is how" instead of titling it "I have saved a marriage of not quite 20 years, here's how", the response here would have been much different to your otherwise very good advice. Be well. I hope that the two of you make it.


----------



## BassGuy919

TRy said:


> Had you said in your opening post that "I really don't know that I have saved my marriage. But I think we are moving in the right direction, here is how", and titled it "I think we are moving in the right direction, here is how" instead of titling it "I have saved a marriage of not quite 20 years, here's how", the response here would have been much different to your otherwise very good advice. Be well. I hope that the two of you make it.


I quite agree. Hindsight is always 20/20. 

Thank you for the well wishes.


----------



## Wolf1974

lifeistooshort said:


> *How can one be so clueless as to not know their spouse is unhappy? *
> 
> Ime it's because they're self centered and the marriage is working for them so nothing else matters.
> 
> When he or she walks it's much easier to scream cheating them to face one's failure to give a rats behind about their spouse.
> 
> Everyone is self centered to some degree..... it's the human way. But many are stuck in the mindset of "but but but we took vows! Don't they mean anything? ".
> 
> Yes, but usually such a statement refers to the stay married vow while conveniently forgetting about the love, honor and cherish vow.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


you would be amazed at what people will hide when they are motivated. And deception is extremely hard to see in people you trust. To some degree I am paid to detect deception and I'm very good at it. But in my own personal life never saw it coming.


----------



## bc3543

rubendlr said:


> As far as my wife having an affair, I have both dug around some and confronted her about an affair, and I am satisfied with her answer, and ultimately it's only my feelings and state of mind that matters, because it's my relationship, not any of yours.
> 
> RDLR


^This. 

The thing is, you can't prove a negative. There are posters on this and other forums who just aren't satisfied until everyone else has been cheated on and is as miserable as they are. So even if you have "taken all the steps" to rule out cheating, they don't buy it, and will say that you must have missed something and that your spouse is the best liar since Bill Clinton because XYZ happened to them and all spouses in a particular circumstance have cheated.


----------



## tech-novelist

MachoMcCoy said:


> You came to the wrong forum. All they care about is infidelity. They love those threads. If it's NOT about infidelity, they push it there anyhow. If they just can't steer it in that direction, they move on to find one where they can can.
> 
> Now this is where they all say "we have all been there, we know the signs". And when they are right, they all say "see, told you so". Ignoring all of those marriages they destroyed convincing a spouse his wife was in an affair when she WASN'T.
> 
> IF you yell "SHE'S CHEATING" every time, it doesn't count when you're "right".


Ok, let's hear about some of the other cases that you know about where a wife said ILYBINILWY and didn't turn out to be cheating. I haven't seen any yet, but I'm certainly ready to hear about some.

(ETA: I see someone else has mentioned one, so they do exist.)


----------



## bc3543

tech-novelist said:


> Ok, let's hear about some of the other cases that you know about where a wife said ILYBINILWY and didn't turn out to be cheating. I haven't seen any yet, but I'm certainly ready to hear about some.
> 
> (ETA: I see someone else has mentioned one, so they do exist.)


You mean mine, which is going great now? Or the guy who said that to his wife before they divorced because he didn't want to cheat?


----------



## lifeistooshort

TRy said:


> Or the husband is clueless that she found another man (she did admit that she was shopping), and thus she is reinventing history and pointing out that as a human he is not perfect to justify her exit. He quickly took responsibility for his part in the marriage, and responded with a lot of effort once she let him know what she wanted, so it sounds like he is a pretty good spouse that that would have responded sooner had she ever really communicated with him about it.


Actually that wasn't aimed at OP, it was a general statement. If you really start digging into a lot of these was threads you'll see that the betrayed will often admit they kind of knew something wasn't right but assumed their spouse wasn't going anywhere and hoped it would go away. 

If one wants to assume their spouse just rewrote and they weren't so bad that's their perogative but it does them no service. 

My ex would tell you that I rewrote and he wasn't so bad, though I didn't cheat, but know what? It's been 11 years and he can't keep a woman, so maybe he was that bad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort

Wolf1974 said:


> you would be amazed at what people will hide when they are motivated. And deception is extremely hard to see in people you trust. To some degree I am paid to detect deception and I'm very good at it. But in my own personal life never saw it coming.


So looking back you seriously had no idea your wife wasn't happy? 

I'm genuinely interested.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

rubendlr said:


> I quite agree. Hindsight is always 20/20.
> 
> Thank you for the well wishes.


Duck and cover brother! LOL! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MachoMcCoy

lifeistooshort said:


> So looking back you seriously had no idea your wife wasn't happy?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I find it interesting you doubt this can happen. Three years and 5,000 posts and you are shocked that people are shocked at this?

Fascinating. If I had the time I could find 50 threads where the OP was shocked before I even went to bed tonight.

That's like studying the weather and having NO IDEA that rain came from the clouds.

I mean, you literally are missing a major phenomena on this forum.

Not only did I not know she was unhappy, I thought I had one of the greatest marriages in the world. For 10 YEARS I thought that while the whole time she didn't really like me. I guess you can't fathom it because it never happened to you. I wouldn't have believe it either. Until it happened. That's why they say they were "shocked". This OP had a "bomb drop". I refer to it as my kick in the gut moment. It's why I'm here. And I can see it when it happens over, and over, and over, and...


----------



## MachoMcCoy

tech-novelist said:


> Ok, let's hear about some of the other cases that you know about where a wife said ILYBINILWY and didn't turn out to be cheating. I haven't seen any yet, but I'm certainly ready to hear about some.


How can you make that statement? That is why the internet is so dangerous.


----------



## ConanHub

MachoMcCoy said:


> You came to the wrong forum. All they care about is infidelity. They love those threads. If it's NOT about infidelity, they push it there anyhow. If they just can't steer it in that direction, they move on to find one where they can can.
> 
> Now this is where they all say "we have all been there, we know the signs". And when they are right, they all say "see, told you so". Ignoring all of those marriages they destroyed convincing a spouse his wife was in an affair when she WASN'T.
> 
> IF you yell "SHE'S CHEATING" every time, it doesn't count when you're "right".


You are probably right about some but not all by a long shot.

Got anything useful to contribute or just want to generalize all the posters of TAM and criticize them?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MachoMcCoy

ConanHub said:


> Got anything useful to contribute or just want to generalize all the posters of TAM and criticize them?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Seriously? I have a 25% of the posts on this thread.


----------



## ConanHub

MachoMcCoy said:


> I thought I was pushing the envelope by implying that.
> 
> 
> 
> Guilty. But this doesn't even make sense. She started loving him again because he learned how to argue? My point is that ANYTHING he tried would have "worked". Doesn't it almost seem like it was a little too easy? She's just back to keeping it underground. Not her affair, but the fact that she doesn't love him.
> 
> You know what poll I'd like to see? How many women are miserable in their marriages and/or don't really like their husbands and/or are really repulsed by sex with them AND are positive the idiot doesn't know it.
> 
> THAT'S what I'd like to know. One vote for my wife. One for the OP's as well. He MAY have turned it around, but she walked and he didn't know it. It was a "bomb dropped", remember?
> 
> Any ladies want to vote?


LOL! So you did post a lot! I'll be damned!

I have seen more than one or two women love their husbands again.

For real. I'm excruciatingly sorry yours was rotten.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

lifeistooshort said:


> It's been 11 years and he can't keep a woman, so maybe he was that bad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So...you are actually keeping track of your ex-husband's life?

Really? Why?


And I thought I needed more hobbies......


----------



## TeddieG

rubendlr said:


> I quite agree. Hindsight is always 20/20.
> 
> Thank you for the well wishes.


Thank you, rubendlr. One reason I responded that things might not be so rosy is because in many ways, your first post had the wring of denial to it (I recognize it because I had it for so long!!!). Or maybe you were so excited that you dodged a bullet that you sounded a little giddy. I can understand that; you dodged a bullet if your marriage survives. 

I like the new approach of qualifying with "maybe," or perhaps "in time I'll be able to tell if my efforts are paying off." You're right that when someone who sounds as if they're in denial shows up to tell veterans/survivors of hellacious experiences something they don't already know, things can get complicated. 

I do hope your marriage makes it and you get all that you want. I too did what I thought was right, and my counselor expressed some concern that I have a tendency to always want to know what is and always do "the right thing," or to do things right. But in all honesty, I thought I did everything right and my marriage didn't make it. 

But I do hope yours does, and as many as possible that have the potential to do so really do, make it.


----------



## Wolf1974

lifeistooshort said:


> So looking back you seriously had no idea your wife wasn't happy?
> 
> I'm genuinely interested.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I knew off and on she was unhappy with herself and she had some issues with her father. 

I had absolutely zero knowledge she was unhappy with me or our marriage. She never said anything about it. When I asked her or "checked in" if she was happy was always a smile, a kiss and told very much so. She said the same to me at the beginning of her affair with a straight face and because Of my trust in her I believed her.

I honestly believe that the easiest people to lie to are those who love us.


----------



## lifeistooshort

bandit.45 said:


> So...you are actually keeping track of your ex-husband's life?
> 
> Really? Why?
> 
> 
> And I thought I needed more hobbies......


Um, because we have two kids that we share and he wastes no time bringing them around the boys when he meets them so I always know about them, and when they break up i know about it because my boys tell me? 

And we're on reasonable terms.

Does that meet with your approval?

If we didn't share the great state of AZ I'd be much more irritated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort

Wolf1974 said:


> I knew off and on she was unhappy with herself and she had some issues with her father.
> 
> I had absolutely zero knowledge she was unhappy with me or our marriage. She never said anything about it. When I asked her or "checked in" if she was happy was always a smile, a kiss and told very much so. She said the same to me at the beginning of her affair with a straight face and because Of my trust in her I believed her.
> 
> I honestly believe that the easiest people to lie to are those who love us.


I'm sure that's true. And we all likely have some blinders on where our loved ones are concerned as well. 

I guess all we can do is the best we can do and keep looking in the mirror to better ourselves. 

By the way, I appreciate you actually discussing without getting your back up. That's not always the case around here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Miss Independent

tech-novelist said:


> Ok, let's hear about some of the other cases that you know about where a wife said ILYBINILWY and didn't turn out to be cheating. I haven't seen any yet, but I'm certainly ready to hear about some.
> 
> (ETA: I see someone else has mentioned one, so they do exist.)



Last year, I told my ex horrible boyfriend "I love you, but I'm not in love with you". I guess you're going to inform me that I was cheating?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## GettingIt_2

Congratulations on working on your marriage, and on seeing results. I have no idea if your wife cheated on you, so I'm not going to jump on the speculation band wagon. I will offer that my husband and I had a very rocky marriage for more than ten years, during which I emotionally detached. I never cheated on him, or was tempted to cheat on him. I think it's fair to say that we both were vulnerable, although I'd *like* to believe that we both would have had the decency to end the marriage first. 

What I do want to tell you is this: buckle up and hold on for the long haul. You're two months in, and I suspect you're experiencing the "high" of early reconciliation. My husband and I committed to fixing our intimacy and overhauling our marriage three years ago, and although the highs have been high, some of the lows have been colossal suck-holes, lol. But the first few months were amazing  

A bad marriage is some serious baggage, no matter how sincere your efforts to leave it behind. It will always be a part of you. Triggers and bad habits abound. If you BOTH are committed to the repair of your intimacy, then you've got the best fighting chance to make it. Even though my husband and I still sometimes struggle, our skills are much improved, but even more important, our trust in one other's commitment is strong. Still, the baggage is like a double-whammy. You have to learn to feel one thing, and believe another. You have to be twice as good at the skills, have superior self-awareness, and be very willing to hear things you don't want to hear, feel things you don't want to feel, and say things you don't want to say. In other words, be vulnerable and hope that your partner doesn't abuse that gift. Again, deep, deep trust. 

Communication is important. But if you don't have trust, you won't communicate. 

Along those lines, think about WHY your wife didn't tell you the things she didn't tell you. No, I'm not saying it's your responsibility to "read her mind," but if you are sincere about fixing your marriage, you will try and understand why anyway. And by turn, she has to be willing to look at her inhibitions, understand them, and ask for your help in overcoming them. And she has to be willing and able to listen to your hopes, fears, and disappointments, too.

Well, I won't rattle on. Good luck. I hope that your journey continues to be worthwhile and rewarding.


----------



## bandit.45

lifeistooshort said:


> Um, because we have two kids that we share and he wastes no time bringing them around the boys when he meets them so I always know about them, and when they break up i know about it because my boys tell me?
> 
> And we're on reasonable terms.
> 
> Does that meet with your approval?
> 
> If we didn't share the great state of AZ I'd be much more irritated.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh yeah. Kids. 

Little Walter Cronkites....


----------



## bandit.45

spinsterdurga said:


> Last year, I told my ex horrible boyfriend "I love you, but I'm not in love with you". I guess you're going to inform me that I was cheating?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


But how can you love someone and not be in love? Makes no sense.


----------



## Miss Independent

bandit.45 said:


> But how can you love someone and not be in love? Makes no sense.



I love my best friend but I'm not in love with him.... He was my friend in addition to being my boyfriend. I loved him as a person who I shared things with but wasn't in love with him. He did many things that made me fall out of love. Does it make sense?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TRy

bandit.45 said:


> But how can you love someone and not be in love? Makes no sense.


 You love your children, but you are not in love with them are you? If you were, that would be creepy LOL!!


----------



## bandit.45

TRy said:


> You love your children, but you are not in love with them are you? If you were, that would be creepy LOL!!


That's not the kind of love I'm talking about. 

I don't believe a woman can love more than one man at a time. 

I think she can be infatuated with one man and still love another semi-romantically, but once she bonds with the new guy there is no more love left for the first dude. It's done. It's gone. And women lie to themselves when they say they still love guy #1. 

I've been guy#1 many times, and I can tell you none of those women who told me they would always love me would not throw me a rope now if I was drowning.


----------



## bandit.45

spinsterdurga said:


> I love my best friend but I'm not in love with him.... He was my friend in addition to being my boyfriend. I loved him as a person who I shared things with but wasn't in love with him. He did many things that made me fall out of love. Does it make sense?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No. 

You may still like him a lot. You may have some fond memories. But you don't love him.


----------



## soccermom2three

OP, don't let the Debbie Downers get to you. There are some here that really don't like success stories where the couple actually works things out. They pretty much see bad in everything. 

This is the second thread I've read this week where there were a lot of Negative Nellie's posting on the thread.

I'm going to give you a big High Five like I did for the OP on the other thread.


----------



## GusPolinski

soccermom2three said:


> OP, don't let the Debbie Downers get to you. There are some here that really don't like success stories where the couple actually works things out. They pretty much see bad in everything.
> 
> This is the second thread I've read this week where there were a lot of Negative Nellie's posting on the thread.
> 
> I'm going to give you a big High Five like I did for the OP on the other thread.


Oh come on... _everyone_ loves a good success story.

Still, most would prefer that OP -- or anyone facing a similar set of circumstances -- tackle the aforementioned salvation of his marriage w/ both eyes open.

After all, if there's more to the story than what the OP has been told or been made aware of, then he's reconciling his marriage on a foundation of lies.

And let's be real... we all know what the ol' "...I love you, _but I'm not *in love* with you_..." speech means in most cases.


----------



## tech-novelist

MachoMcCoy said:


> How can you make that statement? That is why the internet is so dangerous.


"The trouble with the internet is that you can never be sure that the quotations are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln


----------



## MachoMcCoy

lifeistooshort said:


> So looking back you seriously had no idea your wife wasn't happy?
> 
> I'm genuinely interested.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you? Then you will be fascinated by this. Read the OP. It's not long. She even TELLS him she's unhappy.

What if I told you I can almost GUARANTEE he is going to be "shocked" if she works up the cojones to serve him papers? I'll put money on it even. A lot.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/323633-wondering-am-i-selfish.html


----------



## jdawg2015

ruben, she said she wanted to be single. That statement sets off alarm bells to me.

The odds that your wife had another guy in mind (emotionally or physically) are very high. You would be wise to sit back with your mouth shut and observe.

This could be a cause of your wife being legit, but I would use this as a chance to see. I hope we're wrong but you got the ILWYBNILWY which is a very dangerous thing to hear from your spouse. In your posts it's all about you needing to change and her needs, but a marriage is TWO people................................. 

Get in counselling and resolve the issues for her to fall out of love with you. The how to argue process is window dressing around bigger problems. Start dating your wife again. And this will take many months before you are out of the woods, not after a lecture about how to argue from a marriage counsellor.

Sex life drop off? 
You guys go out together frequently?
Change in her appearance and dressing?
She travel for work?
Lot of girls nights and/or coming home late all the sudden?
Phone guarding?

Don't blow us off. You don't need to freak out but you need to open your eyes and ears and keep your mouth shut. Observe.


----------



## jdawg2015

You are dismissing way too many red flags.

I certainly like to see a success story. But saying she wanted to be single? Huge red flag. Implies wants to have "freedom" and this is not over analysing things.

OP would be very wise to snoop for a while. If nothing found, great. But those words she used, and how he's taking all the blame is worrisome.



soccermom2three said:


> OP, don't let the Debbie Downers get to you. There are some here that really don't like success stories where the couple actually works things out. They pretty much see bad in everything.
> 
> This is the second thread I've read this week where there were a lot of Negative Nellie's posting on the thread.
> 
> I'm going to give you a big High Five like I did for the OP on the other thread.


----------



## lifeistooshort

I tend to think if his wife had another guy she wouldn't have come around so easily as he made changes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Miss Independent

bandit.45 said:


> No.
> 
> 
> 
> You may still like him a lot. You may have some fond memories. But you don't love him.



You can't possibly know how I feel. At the time, I loved him but wasn't in love with him. This is how I felt. I'm sorry I don't fit into the TAM (infidelity) box. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bandit.45

spinsterdurga said:


> You can't possibly know how I feel. At the time, I loved him but wasn't in love with him. This is how I felt. I'm sorry I don't fit into the TAM (infidelity) box.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why are you getting bent out of shape? Isn't this a discussion forum? 

I just don't believe that a woman can really "love" a guy while at the same time moving on to another guy and fall "in love" with him. Generally that is infatuation that is growing into love, while the love for the first guy diminishes to "like". 

I once had a girlfriend who I loved very much break up with me and tell me _"I will always love you."_ 

Well, I've been around the block a few times. I told her _"No. You will love me for a little while longer, but once you find a new boyfriend and bond with him, you won't love me anymore. It will be as if I never existed in your life.. But I appreciate the sentiment."_

Needless to say I never heard from her again.


----------



## lifeistooshort

bandit.45 said:


> Why are you getting bent out of shape? Isn't this a discussion forum?
> 
> I just don't believe that a woman can really "love" a guy while at the same time moving on to another guy and fall "in love" with him. Generally that is infatuation that is growing into love, while the love for the first guy diminishes to "like".
> 
> I once had a girlfriend who I loved very much break up with me and tell me _"I will always love you."_
> 
> Well, I've been around the block a few times. I told her _"No. You will love me for a little while longer, but once you find a new boyfriend and bond with him, you won't love me anymore. It will be as if I never existed in your life.. But I appreciate the sentiment."_
> 
> Needless to say I never heard from her again.



Perhaps people have different criteria for what constitutes love? 

My ex hb claimed to love me but his treatment of me suggested otherwise. 

If that was his definition of love i feel bad for him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

lifeistooshort said:


> *Perhaps people have different criteria for what constitutes love?
> *
> My ex hb claimed to love me but his treatment of me suggested otherwise.
> 
> If that was his definition of love i feel bad for him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's what I mean. And generally women have inaccurate criteria for what they perceive as being "in love" and "loving" someone. 

I think we need to do away with the term "in love". It is inaccurate.


----------



## lifeistooshort

bandit.45 said:


> That's what I mean. And generally women have inaccurate criteria for what they perceive as being "in love" and "loving" someone.
> 
> I think we need to do away with the term "in love". It is inaccurate.


What exactly is our criteria for love and why is it inaccurate? 

I'm looking forward to this 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## UMP

lifeistooshort said:


> What exactly is our criteria for love and why is it inaccurate?
> 
> I'm looking forward to this
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ben Higgins
After all, he should know so much about love, being able to "love" two women at once and then five minutes later proposing to only one of them! :grin2:


----------



## bandit.45

lifeistooshort said:


> What exactly is our criteria for love and why is it inaccurate?
> 
> I'm looking forward to this
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because women don't work that way. A woman cannot love two men at once. She can be infatuated with one guy and moving out of love from guy #1. But she does not love guy #2 until she has extricated herself from guy #1. 

We need to make up some new words for this transition.


----------



## bandit.45

UMP said:


> *Ben Higgins*
> After all, he should know so much about love, being able to "love" two women at once and then five minutes later proposing to only one of them! :grin2:


Who?


----------



## Miss Independent

bandit.45 said:


> Why are you getting bent out of shape? Isn't this a discussion forum?



Lol where did I say I was upset by what you wrote? You're reading way into what I wrote. 




bandit.45 said:


> I just don't believe that a woman can really "love" a guy while at the same time moving on to another guy and fall "in love" with him. Generally that is infatuation that is growing into love, while the love for the first guy diminishes to "like".
> 
> )



I wasn't talking about moving on and falling in love with another guy. All I said was "X, I love you but I'm not in love with you " I wasn't cheating. His behavior led me to fall out of love with him. My goal was to counter the claim that people who tell their SO "ILYBILWY" are ALWAYS cheating. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bandit.45

spinsterdurga said:


> I wasn't talking about moving on and falling in love with another guy. All I said was "X, I love you but I'm not in love with you " I wasn't cheating. His behavior led me to fall out of love with him. My goal was to counter the claim that people who tell their SO "ILYBILWY" are ALWAYS cheating.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well that makes more sense. So is he sticking around or have you cut him off clean?


----------



## MAJDEATH

I think a great percentage of wives just expect their man to know that they are unhappy, but they won't tell him. "If he really loved me and knew me, he would know something is wrong." So it could be possible that she is unhappy and you don't know it.


----------



## tech-novelist

bandit.45 said:


> Because women don't work that way. A woman cannot love two men at once. She can be infatuated with one guy and moving out of love from guy #1. But she does not love guy #2 until she has extricated herself from guy #1.
> 
> We need to make up some new words for this transition.


No need. This is called "swinging from branch to branch".


----------



## Miss Independent

bandit.45 said:


> Well that makes more sense. So is he sticking around or have you cut him off clean?



I've cut him off since he was verbally abusive. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## soccermom2three

tech-novelist said:


> No need. This is called "swinging from branch to branch".


This is my sister in law. 1st husband>2nd husband(brother in law)>OM1>OM2. OM1 was "karma-nized" when SIL started up with OM2.

Also, my husband and I have known a couple of guys that are serial branch swingers so it's not just a girl thing.


----------



## tech-novelist

soccermom2three said:


> This is my sister in law. 1st husband>2nd husband(brother in law)>OM1>OM2. OM1 was "karma-nized" when SIL started up with OM2.
> 
> Also, my husband and I have known a couple of guys that are serial branch swingers so it's not just a girl thing.


Sure, I know that, but thanks for the reminder anyway.


----------



## lifeistooshort

bandit.45 said:


> Because women don't work that way. A woman cannot love two men at once. She can be infatuated with one guy and moving out of love from guy #1. But she does not love guy #2 until she has extricated herself from guy #1.
> 
> We need to make up some new words for this transition.


Well I'll admit that I don't work that way, but I don't do casual sex or ons' s either because I need a connection. And I will only connect with one guy at a time. 

But I'm hesitant to label all women this way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BetrayedDad

bandit.45 said:


> That's what I mean. And generally women have inaccurate criteria for what they perceive as being "in love" and "loving" someone.
> 
> I think we need to do away with the term "in love". It is inaccurate.


She loved her ex-boyfriend like she loves pepperoni pizza...

Duh!

I agree... it's horribly inaccurate. 

It would be far more accurate to say, "I like you as a person but I don't love you."

ILYBINILWY just creates false hope and confusion for all parties involved.

If you love something you would do anything for them. Spouse, kids, even an object or a pet, etc. 

That criteria is not met when your in the process of dumping them....


----------



## bandit.45

spinsterdurga said:


> I've cut him off since he was verbally abusive.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

BetrayedDad said:


> She loved her ex-boyfriend like she loves pepperoni pizza...
> 
> Duh!
> 
> I agree... it's horribly inaccurate.
> 
> It would be far more accurate to say, "I like you as a person but I don't love you."
> 
> ILYBINILWY just creates false hope and confusion for all parties involved.
> 
> If you love something you would do anything for them. Spouse, kids, even an object or a pet, etc.
> 
> That criteria is not met when your in the process of dumping them....



Women say it to make themselves feel better. They feel guilty for hurting the guy, but in the end no woman wants to think that she is badly thought of. By saying ILYBINILWY she is hoping that he will accept the friend-zoning and not hold a grudge against her, and more importantly, that he go away and leave her alone to pursue her new guy.

... and wait around until five years later, after her new relationship has bombed, so she can "rekindle the spark" of love she has for him.

... or she hopes he carries a torch for her the rest of his life, until he dies miserable and alone in a dark corner of an empty house at the end of a dark lonely lane somewhere....

So romantic....


----------



## TRy

bandit.45 said:


> That's not the kind of love I'm talking about.


 But it is the kind of love that many others are talking about. The English language is tricky on this topic and subject to different interpretations. For most people there is being in love, which is romantic in nature, and there is loving someone, such as a close family member. In some failing marriages a person no longer has romantic feelings for their spouse, but still loves them as a family member, the whole “I Love You, but I'm Not In Love With You” thing. That is why when you asked “But how can you love someone and not be in love? Makes no sense”, I answered that “You love your children, but you are not in love with them are you?”



bandit.45 said:


> I don't believe a woman can love more than one man at a time.
> 
> I think she can be infatuated with one man and still love another semi-romantically, but once she bonds with the new guy there is no more love left for the first dude. It's done. It's gone.


 You are confusing love with being in love. I agree that you cannot be in love with more than one person, but you can love many people such as your child, sibling, parent, and spouse. Loving your spouse only becomes a problem if you are not also in love with them anymore.


----------



## bandit.45

TRy said:


> But it is the kind of love that many others are talking about. The English language is tricky on this topic and subject to different interpretations. For most people there is being in love, which is romantic in nature, and there is loving someone, such as a close family member. In some failing marriages a person no longer has romantic feelings for their spouse, but still loves them as a family member, the whole “I Love You, but I'm Not In Love With You” thing. That is why when you asked “But how can you love someone and not be in love? Makes no sense”, I answered that “You love your children, but you are not in love with them are you?”
> 
> You are confusing love with being in love. I agree that you cannot be in love with more than one person, but you can love many people such as your child, sibling, parent, and spouse. Loving your spouse only becomes a problem if you are not also in love with them anymore.


I'm not confusing anything. I just don't agree. When you fall out of love, you do not love your partner anymore. Period. You may like them very much, still admire them for some things, or just merely tolerate them, but you don't love them. Love is an action, not a state of being. 

I disagree with you wholeheartedly.


----------



## lifeistooshort

bandit.45 said:


> Women say it to make themselves feel better. They feel guilty for hurting the guy, but in the end no woman wants to think that she is badly thought of. By saying ILYBINILWY she is hoping that he will accept the friend-zoning and not hold a grudge against her, and more importantly, that he go away and leave her alone to pursue her new guy.
> 
> ... and wait around until five years later, after her new relationship has bombed, so she can "rekindle the spark" of love she has for him.
> 
> ... or she hopes he carries a torch for her the rest of his life, until he dies miserable and alone in a dark corner of an empty house at the end of a dark lonely lane somewhere....
> 
> So romantic....



I think women can genuinely have affectionate feelings for someone without wanting to jump them. This is what many likely mean by the whole ILYBNILWY thing. 

Men, otoh, view love as wanting to have sex, so if your woman doesn't feel passionate you don't view it as love. Men either want to fvck you or they don't. Period. 

Differences in gender.

There are women who have princess syndrome in that they want men to carry torches for them. .... it's an ego thing. They were so wonderful that he just couldn't get over her. ....a nice little mental masturbation romance. 


Both of my hb's first wives were like this. Me, otoh, I wish my ex would keep a woman. ....i certainly don't want him and he's in a better mood when he's getting some.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3Xnocharm

bandit.45 said:


> Women say it to make themselves feel better. They feel guilty for hurting the guy, but in the end no woman wants to think that she is badly thought of. By saying ILYBINILWY she is hoping that he will accept the friend-zoning and not hold a grudge against her, and more importantly, that he go away and leave her alone to pursue her new guy.
> 
> ... and wait around until five years later, after her new relationship has bombed, so she can "rekindle the spark" of love she has for him.
> 
> ... or she hopes he carries a torch for her the rest of his life, until he dies miserable and alone in a dark corner of an empty house at the end of a dark lonely lane somewhere....
> 
> So romantic....


You cant really generalize like that. I went through this with with my first husband. I was no longer in love with him, but I did (and still do) love him as family. Since we share a daughter, he will always be family to me. So while what you said may apply in some cases, it doesn't apply to ALL of us.


----------



## bandit.45

3Xnocharm said:


> You cant really generalize like that. I went through this with with my first husband. I was no longer in love with him, but I did (and still do) love him as family. Since we share a daughter, he will always be family to me. So while what you said may apply in some cases, it doesn't apply to ALL of us.


So its a filial affection you have for him... are you saying you love him to the same degree you love your siblings or your aunt?

See this is where the English Language is so inaccurate. I believe the ancient Hebrew had around thirty different words for different "types" of love....fatherly love, sibling love, Godly love, marital love, sexual love...?

If I ever heard my ex tell me she still "loves" me, I'd probably knock her through a wall. I don't want or need love from her.


----------



## bandit.45

lifeistooshort said:


> I think women can genuinely have affectionate feelings for someone without wanting to jump them. This is what many likely mean by the whole ILYBNILWY thing.
> 
> Men, otoh, view love as wanting to have sex, so if your woman doesn't feel passionate you don't view it as love. Men either want to fvck you or they don't. Period.
> 
> Differences in gender.
> 
> There are women who have princess syndrome in that they want men to carry torches for them. .... it's an ego thing. They were so wonderful that he just couldn't get over her. ....a nice little mental masturbation romance.
> 
> 
> Both of my hb's first wives were like this. Me, otoh, I wish my ex would keep a woman. ....i certainly don't want him and he's in a better mood when he's getting some.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think...generally speaking...that_ most_ women (I emphasize most) are wired to be monogamous, whereas men are wired to be more polyamorous by nature. I think a man can love two women, and love them both with romantic love... but not a woman. I just don't think women are wired to do this. 

One man is always going to be the steady, soft landing pad and the other the hot lover. She can like and admire guy 1, and allow him to have sex with her as currency to maintain his support, but she will never have the lusty, romantic infatuation she has for guy #2. In fact, I would say that she doesn't really "love" either one of them during this transition period.


----------



## BassGuy919

Update, I am not reading responses anymore, and I figured out my title came off as prideful, boastful, arrogant, or deluded. I am sorry, really.
My marriage is not out of the woods. Ok, happy?

Please stop the trolling, the sniping, the infighting. It doesn't do anyone any good. Keep this up and am just going to delete this entire thread.
If you have been hurt by anything anyone including I have said, I am sorry. 

I still wish everyone the best. I hope my marriage is salvaged, but if it isn't, I am blaming no one but myself and my wife.

rdlr


----------



## EllisRedding

I definitely wasn't trying to be negative with regards to the OP. Honestly, I just found his opening post to be rather confusing. The first part reads about everything he did wrong and needed to fix in order to make the marriage work. The second part then jumped in to how to fight properly. Hopefully you can see where there is a bit of a disconnect. The information the OP provided below (especially bolded) from one of my questions I think added a lot more value and would have probably balanced out some of the opinions posted here.



rubendlr said:


> Ok this is also good feedback. I didn't really mean to generalize.
> I thought I was being wordy enough. *Ok. Yes, my wife of course has some culpability in all this. One, she wasn't communicating her feelings and needs well. She also was keeping score. A relationship should not have a scoreboard. She was holding on to things from the past and throwing them in my face when it benefitted her. She is definitely no angel. She has a bad temper and she holds grudges.* No one is perfect. No one.
> 
> The main advice I was trying to give was one, not to argue without a set of ground rules, and two, communication is absolutely the cornerstone of a good relationship. You really have to be clear and not make assumptions, you have to listen well and express well.
> 
> Sex is important as well, but not every woman can be satisfied by the same means. I posted what worked for me, but your mileage may vary. That was not the focus of my post, however, the communication was. People asked for specifics though, and I tried to answer them.
> 
> Sorry if I'm coming across as being testy, but geez, come on.
> 
> I am sorry if anything I said came across as insincere or overly optimistic or any other negative perception you may have had. I just wanted to express my personal situation somewhere and maybe help someone who is in the same place as me not to make the same mistakes.
> 
> RDLR


----------



## EllisRedding

rubendlr said:


> I still wish everyone the best. I hope my marriage is salvaged, but if it isn't, I am blaming no one but myself and my wife.


If things don't work out figure out which TAM member here has the most posts in this thread and blame them >


----------



## TRy

3Xnocharm said:


> I went through this with with my first husband. I was no longer in love with him, but I did (and still do) love him as family. Since we share a daughter, he will always be family to me. So while what you said may apply in some cases, it doesn't apply to ALL of us.


 :smthumbup:
This is spot on. I think some males miss that females think differently than men on this topic. What is true for men is not true for women.


----------



## BassGuy919

EllisRedding said:


> I definitely wasn't trying to be negative with regards to the OP. Honestly, I just found his opening post to be rather confusing. The first part reads about everything he did wrong and needed to fix in order to make the marriage work. The second part then jumped in to how to fight properly. Hopefully you can see where there is a bit of a disconnect. The information the OP provided below (especially bolded) from one of my questions I think added a lot more value and would have probably balanced out some of the opinions posted here.


Thank you, EllisRedding, yours is the only response of late that I have read. I didn't read where people thought you were being negative towards me, I'm sure it was misconstrued as I was. Thank you for posting my response to your question in attempts to salvage this fiasco of a thread. 

By the way, if you go to my original post you will see I have put a disclaimer and modified the title, but it apparently has no effect on the main thread link though. 

Again to all reading this: I don't *know* if I saved anything. If you care, my wife and I are doing better, but we are by no means out of the woods. In fact we had a horrible fight two nights ago, but yesterday was bliss. Go figure. We fought mainly because I confronted her about an affair which everyone was sure she is having. She said that we had a long established rule that if we ever were interested in anyone else that we would be honest to the other person. She said there was no one, but for awhile she felt that she was no longer in love with me and felt that I deserved better. She also told me that now she realizes she still feels for me, especially in light of how hard I am trying to save the marriage. Maybe it's guilt, maybe she doesn't know what she wants, maybe she figured it would be too hard to start over, maybe the person she was interested in (if he/she even exists) wasn't interested in her, maybe she's gotten cold feet. I don't know. Again, it just seems now that she's willing to give *us* another try, and that's something. It doesn't mean it's all going to work out, either, but it is _something_.

I hope anyone in the same boat as me can turn their marriage around. Maybe if mine falters, it's for the best. Maybe I do deserve better. Maybe I'm kidding myself, maybe I'm afraid of change, maybe I'm settling. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Who knows?
All I know is I still love and want her. The heart wants what the heart wants.

Again all the best, and please be nice to one another.

RDLR


----------



## bandit.45

rubendlr said:


> Update, I am not reading responses anymore, and I figured out my title came off as prideful, boastful, arrogant, or deluded. I am sorry, really.
> My marriage is not out of the woods. Ok, happy?
> 
> Please stop the trolling, the sniping, the infighting. It doesn't do anyone any good. Keep this up and am just going to delete this entire thread.
> If you have been hurt by anything anyone including I have said, I am sorry.
> 
> I still wish everyone the best. I hope my marriage is salvaged, but if it isn't, I am blaming no one but myself and my wife.
> 
> rdlr


None of us are happy about your situation, because most of us have been in your situation. We empathize with you...definitely. 

We don't offer group hugs and words of affirmation like the folks on SI do. You won't find coddling going on here. When we see a good person, like yourself, being taken advantage of and deluding himself, we kick you in the butt to wake you up out of your fog. 

Plattitudes and pretty words are not going to motivate you to make the hard decisions you need to make to save your marriage.


----------



## zzzman99

bandit.45 said:


> I think...generally speaking...that_ most_ women (I emphasize most) are wired to be monogamous, whereas men are wired to be more polyamorous by nature. I think a man can love two women, and love them both with romantic love... but not a woman. I just don't think women are wired to do this.
> 
> One man is always going to be the steady, soft landing pad and the other the hot lover. She can like and admire guy 1, and allow him to have sex with her as currency to maintain his support, but she will never have the lusty, romantic infatuation she has for guy #2. In fact, I would say that she doesn't really "love" either one of them during this transition period.


Actually it should read "women (I emphasize most) are wired to be *serial *monogamous".


----------



## TRy

rubendlr said:


> Again to all reading this: I don't *know* if I saved anything. If you care, my wife and I are doing better, but we are my no means out of the woods. In fact we had a horrible fight two nights ago, but yesterday was bliss. Go figure. We fought mainly because I confronted her about an affair which everyone was sure she is having. She said that we had a long established rule that if we ever were interested in anyone else that we would be honest to the other person. She said there was no one, but for awhile she felt that she was no longer in love with me and felt that I deserved better. She also told me that now she realizes she still feels for me, especially in light of how hard I am trying to save the marriage. Maybe it's guilt, maybe she doesn't know what she wants, maybe she figured it would be too hard to start over, maybe the person she was interested in (if he/she even exists) wasn't interested in her, maybe she's gotten cold feet. I don't know. Again, it just seems now that she's willing to give *us* another try, and that's something. It doesn't mean it's all going to work out, either, but it is _something_.
> 
> I hope anyone in the same boat as me can turn their marriage around. Maybe if mine falters, it's for the best. Maybe I do deserve better. Maybe I'm kidding myself, maybe I'm afraid of change, maybe I'm settling. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Who knows?
> All I know is I still love and want her. The heart wants what the heart wants.


 This thread and the posters on it may not be perfect, but I think that it has helped you. You may not see it, but reading your most recent posts and comparing them to your early posts, it is obvious that you have grown in your understanding of your situation. If your wife had another man in possible consideration, you are doing most of the right things to derail him before it went further. You cannot do better then your best, so keep trying, and hope for the best. You need to go with your heart, but be smart about it. Good luck, I am pulling for you. We need more happy endings on this site.


----------



## BassGuy919

For those of you who want to know more about the background of my current marriage issues, please see my response to this thread:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...on/316161-do-women-forget-block-out-past.html
here is the direct link to my response:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...on/316161-do-women-forget-block-out-past.html

To answer the question of whether or not I feel that this situation is all my fault, I would say that, no, it is not all my fault.
To answer the question of whether I consider that it's all up to me to fix this mess, I would say, no, I don't believe that it is all up to me.

Although it was only me in the beginning that wanted to fix our marriage, I knew that I couldn't do it alone. The first step in fixing our marriage was for both parties to acknowledge that it needed fixing. The second thing was to specifically identify the issues that are causing strife in our relationship so that we can deal with them either individually or together as appropriate.

I now feel that is she is actually putting effort into saving our marriage. This, in my mind at least, is cause to be hopeful. 

Initially I was acting very needy and desperate which only worsened the situation. Now that I have calmed down somewhat, and gotten past (most of) the drama, I feel that I can address issues _that I do believe _are my responsibility to solve. I also can better help to address those issues that we have identified as needing to be dealt with as a team together.

My hope is that my wife will do the same and consider this situation as an opportunity to fix all the little things that have added up over time and put us where we are now.

Now and only now can we even attempt to get back on track with our marriage and gain a better understanding of what is and what was wrong in the first place.

RDLR


----------



## MachoMcCoy

rubendlr said:


> Initially I was acting very needy and desperate which only worsened the situation.


This is the biggest take-away we all need from this situation. I was amazed at a few of the veteran posters genuinely shocked that he did not know his wife fell out of love. That's textbook walk-away-wife/ILYBININLWY. You can't have either one without the surprise factor. The secrecy is the whole POINT of this.

Yes, women keep their misery secret. That's why men are always "shocked". We need to let men know that no matter how happy they think their marriage is, a WAW or ILYBINILWY speech can be lurking just beneath the surface. When men get it they cry, beg, become clingy, and otherwise make the situation EXPONENTIALLY worse.

When your wife comes to you with big news? Let her give you the whole speech, then look her in the eye and say "is THAT all? I thought it was bad from your expression. OK. Heard loud and clear. Now get your ass in there and get me a beer".

OP. Not to push my situation on you further, but to go from a WAW, to a WAW squared when the "baby factor" kicks in, to full reconciliation in two months? I hope you're right. And good luck to you.

But she kept this secret from you for a reason. She let the Jeanie out of the bottle. This is how she put it back in.

Just be careful.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

rubendlr said:


> We fought mainly because I confronted her about an affair which everyone was sure she is having.


You didn't read ANYTHING I posted, did you? Spend a little more time on other threads before you do something stupid like that. It's ALWAYS cheating for these people. Always. A wife is 10 minutes late from a dentist appointment and they all want keyloggers and VARS set up. Looking like a jealous baby from ZERO evidence just shot you down again. Right back to square one.

You just seriously diminished your chances of winning her back. Cut that crap out.


----------



## bandit.45

MachoMcCoy said:


> You didn't read ANYTHING I posted, did you? Spend a little more time on other threads before you do something stupid like that. It's ALWAYS cheating for these people. Always. A wife is 10 minutes late from a dentist appointment and they all want keyloggers and VARS set up. Looking like a jealous baby from ZERO evidence just shot you down again. Right back to square one.
> 
> You just seriously diminished your chances of winning her back. Cut that crap out.


I like the fact that you and jld share the task of being the lone voices of dissent. Pretty damn cool.


----------



## BassGuy919

MachoMcCoy said:


> You didn't read ANYTHING I posted, did you? Spend a little more time on other threads before you do something stupid like that. It's ALWAYS cheating for these people. Always. A wife is 10 minutes late from a dentist appointment and they all want keyloggers and VARS set up. Looking like a jealous baby from ZERO evidence just shot you down again. Right back to square one.
> 
> You just seriously diminished your chances of winning her back. Cut that crap out.


It's OK, really. It was a really bad fight, but the next day she told me she DOESN'T want to go back to square one. She likes it better when we get along, so she cut me some slack. She apologized to _me_. I was kind of floored, because you're right, I didn't really have any proof and that was a stupid thing to pull. But we had just had a really good run of days so after blowing up at me, she said she was sorry. I really don't know what to think. I just am thanking my lucky stars that she let that slide, which is a change for her. Like I said she usually holds on to bad stuff much more than good stuff. 

I really just want things to be better, so I need to stop listening to all the naysayers out there. They are not helping.

RDLR


----------



## MAJDEATH

rubendlr said:


> Update, I am not reading responses anymore, and I figured out my title came off as prideful, boastful, arrogant, or deluded. I am sorry, really.
> My marriage is not out of the woods. Ok, happy?
> 
> Please stop the trolling, the sniping, the infighting. It doesn't do anyone any good. Keep this up and am just going to delete this entire thread.
> If you have been hurt by anything anyone including I have said, I am sorry.
> 
> I still wish everyone the best. I hope my marriage is salvaged, but if it isn't, I am blaming no one but myself and my wife.
> 
> rdlr


Some very learned religious scholars would say the negative anti-marriage attitudes expressed by some TAM posters are the work of the devil.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

bandit.45 said:


> I like the fact that you and jld share the task of being the lone voices of dissent. Pretty damn cool.


Which is AMAZING. This guy describes a walk-away-wife to a TEE, and you ALL go into default mode. This site is of no use if it's ALWAYS "She's Cheating". 

ZERO evidence of cheating. 100% evidence of WAW. You people are amazing.


----------



## TRy

MachoMcCoy said:


> ZERO evidence of cheating. 100% evidence of WAW. You people are amazing.


 Actually zero evidence of anything, 100% evidence of red flags.


----------



## bandit.45

There is no evidence of evidence.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

MachoMcCoy said:


> Which is AMAZING. This guy describes a walk-away-wife to a TEE, and you ALL go into default mode. This site is of no use if it's ALWAYS "She's Cheating".
> 
> ZERO evidence of cheating. 100% evidence of WAW. You people are amazing.


No you are amazing man...really. We needed someone to tell us what brainless idiots we are. Thank you. Thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

rubendlr said:


> Update, I am not reading responses anymore, and I figured out my title came off as prideful, boastful, arrogant, or deluded. I am sorry, really.
> My marriage is not out of the woods. Ok, happy?
> 
> Please stop the trolling, the sniping, the infighting. It doesn't do anyone any good. Keep this up and am just going to delete this entire thread.
> If you have been hurt by anything anyone including I have said, I am sorry.
> 
> I still wish everyone the best. I hope my marriage is salvaged, but if it isn't, I am blaming no one but myself and my wife.
> 
> rdlr


I'm writing this just incase you do read here again.

Wow I'm sorry for the way you were slammed for you sharing something that you feel worked for your marriage.

This place can be very harsh at times...


----------



## MachoMcCoy

rubendlr said:


> I am really kind of surprised by the tone of some these comments, actually....I just thought this was an open forum on marriage and marriage issues.


In MY defense, he really should read a forum a little bit before he posts a life changing experience in order to "help others". And I don't mean so he knows what kind of jerks post here (although that would have helped). But it might have been a good idea to read up on what other people have gone through first. Maybe learn a little about the people he is trying to help. 

The fact that he really needed to hear a lot of it didn't really hurt either. He starts as a man she doesn't love any more. Immediately falls off of a cliff when he turns into a crying clingy baby. And he's back at the mountaintop within 2 months? 

Come-on. There's NO WAY he would have posted this story if he had just read even a LITTLE bit first.


----------



## BassGuy919

Update - Hey guys. I don't know what to say, but the wife and I are doing well. Maybe I just lucked out, maybe she felt guilty for what she was thinking of doing (or did). I still have no proof that she ever did anything. But FYI, I do have proof that she's not doing it now. I feel a little bad about it, but I'm an IT guy and installed spyware on her phone including GPS tracking. Since I've done that, there has been NOTHING in the logs that is cause for concern. I get every text she does and like I said it also shows where she is every 15 mins. I am going to uninstall it. She's done nothing to make me distrust her since we started working on stuff together. Anyway, we still fight every now and then but it is much more civil and she is affectionate towards me, initiating not just reciprocating. Maybe 20 years and 3 kids counts for something. Maybe her seeing me try so damn hard to try to keep her did, like I said I don't know. Maybe the counseling helped, maybe it was all of the above. 
@EleGirl thanks for being so kind. @MachoMcCoy, you're right I was dumb to post such a ****y post without really getting a feel for the forum. Lesson learned. 

I wish everyone luck and love.

RDLR


----------



## EleGirl

rubendlr,

I'm glad to hear that you and your wife are doing better. 

Clearly you two have found what works for you. That's good. There is more than one way to save a marriage. Each couple has to find what works for them.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

*Re: I have just barely saved a marriage that is days shy of 20 years old*



GusPolinski said:


> So did you find out who she was seeing?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:rofl: :smthumbup:

Sorry OP, 

I may be highly inappropriate but this is the most funny response I will see today!


----------



## See_Listen_Love

rubendlr said:


> Update - Hey guys. I don't know what to say, but the wife and I are doing well. Maybe I just lucked out, maybe she felt guilty for what she was thinking of doing (or did). I still have no proof that she ever did anything. But FYI, I do have proof that she's not doing it now. I feel a little bad about it, but I'm an IT guy and installed spyware on her phone including GPS tracking. Since I've done that, there has been NOTHING in the logs that is cause for concern. I get every text she does and like I said it also shows where she is every 15 mins. I am going to uninstall it. She's done nothing to make me distrust her since we started working on stuff together. Anyway, we still fight every now and then but it is much more civil and she is affectionate towards me, initiating not just reciprocating. Maybe 20 years and 3 kids counts for something. Maybe her seeing me try so damn hard to try to keep her did, like I said I don't know. Maybe the counseling helped, maybe it was all of the above.
> @*EleGirl* thanks for being so kind. @*MachoMcCoy*, you're right I was dumb to post such a ****y post without really getting a feel for the forum. Lesson learned.
> 
> I wish everyone luck and love.
> 
> RDLR


OP, since there are kids involved I will react to you quite harsh I am afraid:

Posters react to you like shooting from the hip. That is because your posting displays all the common characteristics of so many a doormat type husband that crowd the infidility forum history of TAM. It is very obvious to the analytic reader of many of those.

Because of your kids I advise you to read and learn from the illusionary thinking of so many a betrayed husband. Maybe you can in the long term save your marriage. If you do.

But experience shows that people like you are not conceivable of reasoning and only spin the wheels of their own thoughts over and over. That is what was displayed in your first and other posts. Total self centred talk. I can imagine your wife is fed up with that.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

Good luck man. I hope it works out. Just stay vigilant. That ILYBINILWY speech didn't come out of nowhere.


----------



## BassGuy919

See_Listen_Love said:


> OP, since there are kids involved I will react to you quite harsh I am afraid:
> 
> Posters react to you like shooting from the hip. That is because your posting displays all the common characteristics of so many a doormat type husband that crowd the infidility forum history of TAM. It is very obvious to the analytic reader of many of those.
> 
> Because of your kids I advise you to read and learn from the illusionary thinking of so many a betrayed husband. Maybe you can in the long term save your marriage. If you do.
> 
> But experience shows that people like you are not conceivable of reasoning and only spin the wheels of their own thoughts over and over. That is what was displayed in your first and other posts. Total self centred talk. I can imagine your wife is fed up with that.


I know that probably English is not your first language, but can you expound or explain "people like you are not conceivable of reasoning and only spin the wheels of their own thoughts over and over." Do you mean not capable of reasoning? Also do you have a degree in psychology or sociology? You talk as if you do. Otherwise you're just another internet busybody who thinks he knows how to help me. Granted I was dumb enough to think I could help others when I didn't really have grasp on my own situation, but I have learned that. I think I am more than capable of correcting fallacious thinking on my part and learning the lessons of my past mistakes. 
I realize that I was not the victim, but I am also not going to be a martyr. I did things that drove my wife away, but I am trying to make amends. It seems like I did so in the very nick of time. You are entitled to your opinion, but don't criticize me and expect to me to be thankful to you for dispensing your "wisdom".

Like @EleGirl said, every couple needs to find what works for them. Thinking that I am incapable of change is fallacious thinking on your part. You don't know me. And even if you flip a quarter and it lands on heads 50 times in a row, it doesn't mean that you don't have 50/50 change of getting tails on the next flip. Patterns are sometimes real and sometimes only have appearance of a pattern, especially when an intelligent human being who IS capable of reasoning is involved, we are not slaves to our thoughts and feelings, we can choose to act in ways that though they may be counter intuitive are actually better for a given situation.

_EDIT - profanity removed because I don't need to sink to that level._ I feel bad for saying this in light of what has happened in your country recently (he's Belgian), but you are being a royal jerk.


----------



## ConanHub

I am actually pleasantly surprised by your story @rubendlr

ILYBNILWY is almost always associated with at least an emotional affair but not always.

She might have headed that way or just left but sounds like you two got it going in a healthy direction again.

I'm really glad for you both and your children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MAJDEATH

Thanks for the update rubendlr. Glad things are trending positive for you.
As far as the monitoring software goes, it might be better to leave it in place and only open it if you ever feel the need in the future.


----------



## UMP

....so, to lighten things up a bit, I bring you a blast from the past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz89H0DfVTk


----------



## jld

MAJDEATH said:


> As far as the monitoring software goes, it might be better to leave it in place and only open it if you ever feel the need in the future.


I disagree. Any "monitoring" you do can be interpreted as "spying" by your spouse. Unless you have her explicit permission to do this, you risk destroying her trust in you. 

And even if she never finds out, you will know what you did. Can you live with that?

I believe strongly in transparency in marriage. I think it avoids all kinds of problems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MAJDEATH

jld said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> 
> As far as the monitoring software goes, it might be better to leave it in place and only open it if you ever feel the need in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree. Any "monitoring" you do can be interpreted as "spying" by your spouse. Unless you have her explicit permission to do this, you risk destroying her trust in you.
> 
> And even if she never finds out, you will know what you did. Can you live with that?
> 
> I believe strongly in transparency in marriage. I think it avoids all kinds of problems.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

Monitoring is transparency. And if you are innocent, you should have nothing to hide. I'm sure weightlifter would agree with this, especially if you R with your spouse after infidelity.


----------



## Anon Pink

rubendlr said:


> Thank you, EllisRedding, yours is the only response of late that I have read. I didn't read where people thought you were being negative towards me, I'm sure it was misconstrued as I was. Thank you for posting my response to your question in attempts to salvage this fiasco of a thread.
> 
> By the way, if you go to my original post you will see I have put a disclaimer and modified the title, but it apparently has no effect on the main thread link though.
> 
> Again to all reading this: I don't *know* if I saved anything. If you care, my wife and I are doing better, but we are by no means out of the woods. In fact we had a horrible fight two nights ago, but yesterday was bliss. Go figure. *We fought mainly because I confronted her about an affair which everyone was sure she is having.* She said that we had a long established rule that if we ever were interested in anyone else that we would be honest to the other person. She said there was no one, but for awhile she felt that she was no longer in love with me and felt that I deserved better. She also told me that now she realizes she still feels for me, especially in light of how hard I am trying to save the marriage. Maybe it's guilt, maybe she doesn't know what she wants, maybe she figured it would be too hard to start over, maybe the person she was interested in (if he/she even exists) wasn't interested in her, maybe she's gotten cold feet. I don't know. Again, it just seems now that she's willing to give *us* another try, and that's something. It doesn't mean it's all going to work out, either, but it is _something_.
> 
> I hope anyone in the same boat as me can turn their marriage around. Maybe if mine falters, it's for the best. Maybe I do deserve better. Maybe I'm kidding myself, maybe I'm afraid of change, maybe I'm settling. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Who knows?
> All I know is I still love and want her. The heart wants what the heart wants.
> 
> Again all the best, and please be nice to one another.
> 
> RDLR



Dear god another example of the broherd damaging a marriage!

Greetings to you Ruben,

I am glad you posted your thread but I am sorry your thread became the dumping ground for the broherd.

I think a lot of men become complacent in their marriage. A lot of women too for that matter. The "I love you but I'm not in love with you" talk is almost exactly what I said to my husband several years ago. It is a horrible feeling to be married to someone you're no longer in love with. You WANT to be in love with them and you feel guilty that you're not. How did it come to this? Complacency. 

Getting a marriage back on track takes a long while. It took a long while for the relationship to decintegrate so it will take a while for it to improve.

How have you guys been dealing with resentments? What does your therapist say about that?

I don't think your title was offensive. The broherd has their panties in a wad because they're being challenged. I can take an hour or so and come up with maybe a dozen threads in which the broherd jumped on the OP insisting his wife had an affair. It's frankly, disgusting and shouldn't be allowed, and yet it is tolerated.


----------



## anchorwatch

Good one, Anon. "Broherd" I almost spit my coffee.


----------



## BassGuy919

Thanks again to those who have been supportive of me. I also wish to publicly apologize for reacting very harshly to my detractors especially one in particular although I do stand by my opinion that he/she was being more hurtful than helpful. 

You can only control one person's actions in any relationship, your own. That has been the most important lesson I have learned.
I am far from perfect and so is my spouse. We are working on it. Things are much better, but we have a long road ahead of us to try to repair the damage of years and years of bad habits, bad behavior, and bad communication. However, the thing is *WE* are trying. As in my wife and I. Will we make it? I don't know.

I do know that we are both going to give it all we have. 

Edit, update: Today, in fact, just minutes ago in a phone conversation, my wife thanked me for not "giving up on me [her]". So all you haters and doubters feel free to spin this as you like. 

I am nothing special, I don't know the answers, but I was able to finally see the light that I was ruining my marriage and pushing my wife away by my actions and inactions and was able to begin to try to fix it. Moreover, I was nothing more than lucky that somewhere deep in her heart there was still the tiniest of embers of the feelings she had for me that I was able to rekindle. Perhaps in another few weeks or maybe even another day or two and that may have not been the case. 

RubenDLR


----------



## Yeswecan

rubendlr said:


> I am nothing special, I don't know the answers, but I was able to finally see the light that I was ruining my marriage and pushing my wife away by my actions and inactions and was able to begin to try to fix it. Moreover, I was nothing more than lucky that somewhere deep in her heart there was still the tiniest of embers of the feelings she had for me that I was able to rekindle. Perhaps in another few weeks or maybe even another day or two and that may have not been the case.
> 
> RubenDLR


RubenDLR, you are not alone. I too was similar. Not seeing forest for the trees. My W had waited for me 18 years for me to "get it." I finally got it and went about repairing it. My W always had that ember and stood fast waiting on me. I know I'm blessed in that regard. The revelation that she would wait for me to get it was astonishing. Anyway, marriage has never been better. Glad you finally "got it" and went about fixing it.


----------



## BassGuy919

Yeswecan said:


> RubenDLR, you are not alone. I too was similar. Not seeing forest for the trees. My W had waited for me 18 years for me to "get it." I finally got it and went about repairing it. My W always had that ember and stood fast waiting on me. I know I'm blessed in that regard. The revelation that she would wait for me to get it was astonishing. Anyway, marriage has never been better. Glad you finally "got it" and went about fixing it.


Glad it worked out for you, @Yeswecan. That's exactly it, I finally "got it" and with not a moment to spare. I have been reading about the Walk Away Wife syndrome. We were lucky. Some wives don't have that ember and the guy "gets it" too late to save it. I read about another marriage where the wife gave the guy a final chance and they turned their marriage around too. I think the fact that my wife saw how much effort I was putting into saving the relationship that she finally softened. 

RubenDLR


----------



## Yeswecan

rubendlr said:


> Glad it worked out for you, @Yeswecan. That's exactly it, I finally "got it" and with not a moment to spare. I have been reading about the Walk Away Wife syndrome. We were lucky. Some wives don't have that ember and the guy "gets it" too late to save it. I read about another marriage where the wife gave the guy a final chance and they turned their marriage around too. I think the fact that my wife saw how much effort I was putting into saving the relationship that she finally softened.
> 
> RubenDLR


There was many times my W threatened to call it quits. We always worked it out but at the end of the day the underlying issues still remained. Truth be told, what made me "get it" was this site as well as a few others. Reading what other had gone through and what their spouses have done to each other there was always a recurring theme. Feeling of neglect, alone, did not appear to care any longer, room mates. These are the things I discovered my W was feeling. Fortunate for me my W said these things and asked for change. Others were not so lucky and got the sh!tty end of the stick. In that regard my W never handed me that end. As a result my W gets nothing but my utmost respect, attention and love she can handle. My W has said I have come full circle in our marriage. Only took 18 years. In two weeks we celebrate our 22 year. Long weekend alone in the boonies. :grin2:


----------



## Anon Pink

anchorwatch said:


> Good one, Anon. "Broherd" I almost spit my coffee.


I can't take credit for that one. I believe credit goes to Always Alone. Or maybe SoccerMomto3... Someone from the Glossy Posse...


----------



## Marduk

Anon Pink said:


> Dear god another example of the broherd damaging a marriage!
> 
> Greetings to you Ruben,
> 
> I am glad you posted your thread but I am sorry your thread became the dumping ground for the broherd.
> 
> I think a lot of men become complacent in their marriage. A lot of women too for that matter. The "I love you but I'm not in love with you" talk is almost exactly what I said to my husband several years ago. It is a horrible feeling to be married to someone you're no longer in love with. You WANT to be in love with them and you feel guilty that you're not. How did it come to this? Complacency.
> 
> Getting a marriage back on track takes a long while. It took a long while for the relationship to decintegrate so it will take a while for it to improve.
> 
> How have you guys been dealing with resentments? What does your therapist say about that?
> 
> I don't think your title was offensive. The broherd has their panties in a wad because they're being challenged. I can take an hour or so and come up with maybe a dozen threads in which the broherd jumped on the OP insisting his wife had an affair. It's frankly, disgusting and shouldn't be allowed, and yet it is tolerated.


I dunno. I struggle with that. 

I mean, I get the whole "she's cheating, dump her ass" theme. 

But part of what brings a dude to ask or even accuse his wife of cheating is a bunch of red flags that make a person look like they're cheating. 

I mean, if I did what his wife did my wife would have accused me and gone through my phone long before he did. Why? Because it's natural. 

It's like showing up for work staggering, with slurred speech, and acting irrational and then getting mad when my boss accuses me of being drunk. When what I am is sick or something.

If your behaviour leads one to naturally conclude something that's wrong, there is a component of life that you need to look at - that at some level perception is reality. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anon Pink

I get what you're saying Marduk but the thing is, everybody has their own normal. The first response in this thread, maybe most of the first 40 or so posts were all about she's cheating.

ILYBINILWY does NOT always mean she's cheating. It does always mean that the marriage has been failing for a while and she no longer feels passion towards you. 

If you went to work slurring your words and staggering, they might also think it's great you've regained the ability to talk after your stroke. Everybody has their own normal.


----------



## Yeswecan

Anon Pink said:


> I get what you're saying Marduk but the thing is, everybody has their own normal. The first response in this thread, maybe most of the first 40 or so posts were all about she's cheating.
> 
> ILYBINILWY does NOT always mean she's cheating. It does always mean that the marriage has been failing for a while and she no longer feels passion towards you.
> 
> If you went to work slurring your words and staggering, they might also think it's great you've regained the ability to talk after your stroke. Everybody has their own normal.


I was fortunate to not hear the ILYBINILWY. I was even more fortunate that my W waited and waited until I figured out the last piece of the puzzle. Keep in mind my W always said I am excellent as a father and provider. As a H not so much. I blew it off. Come on...I'm doing all the right things right? Financial stability. Kids are doing great. My W, in her way, was telling me I was failing in just one portion of the marriage.


----------



## Evinrude58

Thankfully, I've steered clear of posting in this thread as far as I know. I just read most of it.

So, OP thinks he has the silver billet for reconciliation. I hope it is this simple for everyone.

What I like is that he's got all the spy gizmos and such in place for monitoring, while he's doing his thing to try to make his wife fall in love with him again.

I think that's wise. Because it may be that he fails and he will need to know when to give up.

Or, he will succeed and can just relax. And enjoy life.

I'm jealous of the opportunity you have with your wife. I didn't get the chance. I'm very hopeful that you have a successful reconciliation.

Don't listen to someone that says you shouldn't spy, but a marriage should have transparency.
That's crazy talk from crazy thought.

How can one tell if something is transparent without looking to see?
You gotta look! If you're looking, one can say it's spying. But a quick glance to see if the sun is still out through the "transparent" marriage is not spying.

Keep your spy gear and hope that one day your marriage is string enough you stop using it for even a glance.

Good luck OP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BassGuy919

I really want to emphasize that this was not easy in any way, shape or form, and I too am surprised by how much I've gotten back in a few months, because my wife herself told me that she didn't get to ILYBINILWY overnight. She said she really tried to tell me she wasn't happy for some time, but let me tell you, though, I just didn't get it. I thought it was a fleeting feeling. She did NOT get through to me that it was as pervasive as it was. She'd say something, maybe I'd be a little more this or that for a while, she would then stop complaining and I thought all was well. In reality, she just was frustrated and gave up. She has said that she should have been better about making me understand the urgency and or the depth of the issue. So that's a communication issue on both our parts. 

But I am not the victim, I didn't listen, I didn't give her what see needed, I pushed her away with a million and one bad habits and inconsideration, all the while being clueless about it.

But now I do know. Again, she had thought I couldn't change and gave up, and then I upped and changed on her. That threw her for a loop. So first she had to see that I was serious and it wasn't a fleeting temporary thing, and two, she had to process it. Maybe it seems fast. She said for her the issue has existed for years, for me from my standpoint it was an all of sudden thing, but that was perception and not reality.

Her reaction makes more sense if you look at few things, one our relationship used to be absolutely fabulous and even the remote possibility of getting that back was a pretty big carrot to dangle in front of her. Two, our relationship is a mature one, I think the weight of breaking up a 20 year marriage is more than say a 5 year one, lastly she is and was considering our children and how our splitting up would affect them. 

So my making these changes to fix our relationship played to her long hoped for desires that she had finally given up on. When she saw me do some of the things that she long hoped I would, at first she was incredulous, and also thought that maybe it was too little too late, but my persistence, and how I attacked on several fronts finally convinced her to give me a final shot at it. That's really it. She could have decided it was too late, or simply that she would be better off without me, but she didn't. It's been another month or so since I first posted this, and while it hasn't been completely smooth, it has been a hell of lot better.

She has owned up to some of things she did wrong, including not trying to get help (counseling) sooner, and her failure to convey to me the true nature and depth of the issues in our marriage. Like I said I am NOT the victim here. I got comfortable and worse complacent. I took her for granted. I was a crappy listener. I didn't fulfill her needs because I didn't bother to find out exactly what she needed from me. Here comes a crappy analogy - Marriage IS like a bicycle, you won't go very far without effort, and if you do notice that you've been coasting for a while, it is more than likely due to the fact that you are going downhill.

So yes she walked away emotionally. But I don't think she had an affair, in fact she said that that was one of the reasons she wanted to split. She said she cared too much about me and respected me as the father of her kids too much to have an affair on me. At the time she told me she wanted out she thought she might be happier with someone else, and even that I might be as well. But, she changed her mind. People actually do that. 

Now I feel that we're on the same side now that she has decided to stay. She has joined me in my effort not just to save the marriage, but to make it great again, maybe some day to be better than it's ever been.

We had another talk last night, and she apologized again for things she had done and said, and again thanked me for not going down without a fight, because it made her realize that she was mistaken and that I wasn't incapable of change and what's more that our marriage was worth saving.

I know some trolls are going to want to rain on this parade. Fine. I just want someone out there to know, that maybe there is hope. Maybe you won't reconcile, but maybe you will. This is a form of Pascal's wager - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

So if you try to save your marriage and you don't you have not lost anything besides the marriage, which was going to end anyway.

So if you try to save your marriage and you succeed, then you have saved you marriage, which is what you want.

If you don't try to save your marriage, you won't of course, but what's more is that you will never know whether or not you could have, and that will eat away at you for the rest of your life.

So you have nothing to lose and a great deal to gain by trying your absolute best to save your marriage.

Love and luck,

RDLR


----------



## MAJDEATH

I think what happens a lot in a LTR is one partner won't tell the spouse she is unhappy and what the reason is, specifically. But she will tell her girlfriends, mother, co-workers, etc. Now it could be because the H didn't listen in the past about an issue, but an impasse so serious that it threatens the severability of the M must be communicated clearly and deliberately.
My W wasn't happy in the M, but failed to notify me that her unhappiness had reached a level that caused her to consider a replacement spouse. She kept "going thru the motions" but was checked out emotionally. She would have left but she couldn't make it on her own as a working mom, so she used me to provide for her material/lifestyle needs.


----------



## Yeswecan

> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think what happens a lot in a LTR is one partner won't tell the spouse she is unhappy and what the reason is, specifically. But she will tell her girlfriends, mother, co-workers, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> You are on the right track. My W would be somewhat vocal but a majority of the talking about the marriage went to friends, mom and co-workers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it could be because the H didn't listen in the past about an issue, but an impasse so serious that it threatens the severability of the M must be communicated clearly and deliberately.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did not listen. What I was doing was all good. Me not doing something right? Do you know who you are talking too? That is how I saw it when the condition of the marriage was brought up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My W wasn't happy in the M, but failed to notify me that her unhappiness had reached a level that caused her to consider a replacement spouse. She kept "going thru the motions" but was checked out emotionally. She would have left but she couldn't make it on her own as a working mom, so she used me to provide for her material/lifestyle needs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is were my W path went differently. She held onto it for years that one day I would come around and be the H she desired. My W did divulge there was many nights crying alone in the bathroom. That devastated me to no end. I had to change things pronto. I'm sorry your W did not clue you in. Sucks being left in the dark then handed a bag of crap for something that you have no idea how you were awarded said bag of crap.
Click to expand...


----------



## BassGuy919

MAJDEATH said:


> She would have left but she couldn't make it on her own as a working mom, so she used me to provide for her material/lifestyle needs.


That's horrible, I was afraid of this too. I am getting so many "I love you"s, hugs, and kisses (and more), however, that I have become a little more secure about things. Not to mention the fact that I _am_ spying on her, and so far she's clean.:wink2:


----------



## BassGuy919

Another post, now almost 3 weeks later. Checking in. Still married. Still going well.

RubenDLR


----------



## GusPolinski

Good to hear.

Now set an end date w/ respect to the monitoring, and make it soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BassGuy919

Update May 14, 2016.

Update, I guess all you naysayers were right. We're back in the toilet again. I don't quite know what happened again. Blindsided part two. I am sorry about giving false hope to others.
I am sure there are some happy endings somewhere. The romantic in me needs to believe that. But mine will not be among them. I don't know what to do, I don't want to screw up my kids' lives, but I can't live in a loveless/sexless marriage, or worse yet just play dad while she goes out and makes a new life with someone else. She told me I need someone who is a better fit, and this time, I actually agree with her. I still love her of course, but I won't heal while she's around me. But I can't keep my house without her, and the situation with the kid's school is very complicated.

I am truly beyond myself, and don't know what to do. I wish I would have gotten a clue years ago when I actually might have had a better chance. I know I am not without fault, but she really did not make the seriousness of the situation clear to me, and maybe that's on both of us. I should have gotten it but she really should have tried to make me get it, if I could have saved what was once a beautiful relationship and avoid all this mess, I would have. Would have, should have, could have. It's all moot now.

Fair warning I WILL BE deleting this post I think. So anyone who wants to archive it, please do so. I will bring it down in a few days and start a new one. Or do you think it would serve the community better if I left up and changed the disclaimer on page one? 

Please let me know what you think about what to do with this post.

Again please me nice. I am nice guy and don't deserve this. 



Ruben DLR


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## anchorwatch

@rubendlr, This board is made up of both those who made their marriages better and those that had to move on. It's a place to learn from the experiences of others, whether in failure or success. Yours is just as valuable a lesson. Leave it up for those who are searching for their own path. Start a new thread with your future journey, even if it's just to have somewhere to vent. 

You may not see it now, but you will be okay. 

“It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.” TR


Best


----------



## Julius Beastcavern

rubendlr said:


> Update May 14, 2016.
> 
> Update, I guess all you naysayers were right. We're back in the toilet again. I don't quite know what happened again. Blindsided part two. I am sorry about giving false hope to others.
> I am sure there are some happy endings somewhere. The romantic in me needs to believe that. But mine will not be among them. I don't know what to do, I don't want to screw up my kids' lives, but I can't live in a loveless/sexless marriage, or worse yet just play dad while she goes out and makes a new life with someone else. She told me I need someone who is a better fit, and this time, I actually agree with her. I still love her of course, but I won't heal while she's around me. But I can't keep my house without her, and the situation with the kid's school is very complicated.
> 
> I am truly beyond myself, and don't know what to do. I wish I would have gotten a clue years ago when I actually might have had a better chance. I know I am not without fault, but she really did not make the seriousness of the situation clear to me, and maybe that's on both of us. I should have gotten it but she really should have tried to make me get it, if I could have saved what was once a beautiful relationship and avoid all this mess, I would have. Would have, should have, could have. It's all moot now.
> 
> Fair warning I WILL BE deleting this post I think. So anyone who wants to archive it, please do so. I will bring it down in a few days and start a new one. Or do you think it would serve the community better if I left up and changed the disclaimer on page one?
> 
> Please let me know what you think about what to do with this post.
> 
> Again please me nice. I am nice guy and don't deserve this.
> 
> This next part is weird also, but I guess I need to start somewhere. If you're a nice lady between 37-45 who lives in the Austin TX area, and would like to start what will be a very slow going relationship, I would like to hear from you. Full disclosure, I am short, Hispanic, and overweight (but I'm not a bus, either). But I do think I have a nice face, and I am a very considerate person, plus I have a very good job and love kids. I consider myself liberal and traditional at the same time, I'm Presbyterian.
> It will be way too soon for anything serious, But that does mean I just want a hook up. I don't want to be alone and If you don't either maybe we can meet for drinks or lunch. I will send a photo if you want. If this is the wrong place for this pitch, let me know where to put it and I'll edit it out this thread and move it to where it needs to be.
> 
> Ruben DLR


Ruben, I want to thank you for being honest enough to make this post. I wish you the best in your future life with a sex vixen.


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## lifeInStudy

Please don't request this thread for deleting OP. It will help many more people in its truth. Even though this is my first post I have been reading and learning on this board for a long while. These aren't naysayers... They have seen the predictability of human beings. It is always the same few people being dead wrong here. Really a broken clock has a higher chance at helping people as they do, I won't bother to name names.

There are lessons to be had here. This may have been fixed, but in truth no one knows. All I can say is those that have been fixed here it is decisive, high octane actions after serious fact finding that has the best shot of beating this sad human condition.

Good luck OP
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Ruben, How's it going? Have you reached out to family or friends? They can be of great support during these times.


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## 3Xnocharm

@rubendlr, thank you for the honest update, Im sure that wasn't easy to come here and post that information. Please don't ask to have your thread deleted, it may really help someone else one day. Did you discover she was cheating?

That said, keep in mind that this is NOT a dating/hookup site. Not sure if you can get banned for that or not..?


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## farsidejunky

*Re: Disclaimer: (I may have) saved a marriage, I don't know, but maybe this post can*

That took a lot of moxy, @rubendlr. 

Your post is somewhat cryptic. Did she say she was done, or that it would just never get better?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Tron

*Re: Disclaimer: (I may have) saved a marriage, I don't know, but maybe this post can*



farsidejunky said:


> That took a lot of moxy, @rubendlr.
> 
> Your post is somewhat cryptic. Did she say she was done, or that it would just never get better?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


She is most likely hooking up with some other dude now. Since it has gone sexless again sounds like she's committed to someone else. Pretty clear that she was looking a couple months ago.

Good job coming back Ruben. That took some guts.

Time to 180, file and expose.


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## BassGuy919

Hey guys, it's me checking in.

Life sucks for me right now. I am living with someone who almost daily breaks my heart or my balls. She is acting single even though we're still married. I am just a ball and chain for her in her mind. I really really want to divorce, I can NOT abide this emasculation much longer, but I am worried about the number it's going to my kids. But God help me, I just can't deal with her **** anymore.

If we didn't have kids, I would dumped her on her ass already. She is getting all the benefits of being my wife without having to put anything into the relationship.


If someone sees me around town, do a favor and hit me a truck, it would be faster and more humane. She'd have her freedom, I wouldn't suffer and more and my kids would be taken care from my life insurance.

She is definitely having an EA and it's only a matter of time before she does the deed. She and I are musicians and she's living this rock and roll fantasy right now now, an almost 43 old woman playing in a rock band and running around all painted up in tight and short dresses. I used feel bad when my band practices ran late and was a little late getting back to her and the kids and I resented my band. Her band is the center of her universe right now and she's gone with them for hours at time, while I'm stuck at home with the kids.

I want get proof of infidelity so I can have her be at fault in the divorce. So I guess I'm going to have to suck it up a bit longer. 

RubenDLR


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## BassGuy919

I am really sorry I made my username so close to my real name. Is there any way I can request a name change from the admin. It's almost a safety thing. I am afraid what she'll do if she finds theses posts.

RDLR


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Disclaimer: (I may have) saved a marriage, I don't know, but maybe this post can*

What will proof do? Isn't treating you terribly enough?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## BassGuy919

*Re: Disclaimer: (I may have) saved a marriage, I don't know, but maybe this post can*

I guess I could petition on a cruelty fault. I guess so.
But I would have to prove any fault, and I an not sure how I'll prove cruelty. I do know how I can prove infidelity. I won't go into details, but there are forensics kits for just such a thing.

RDLR


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## 3Xnocharm

Im no expert, but Im pretty sure since you guys are divorcing that the court isn't going to care if she dates. Most states are no fault anyway, she could have banged the local football team for the last two years, and you still would not have any advantage. 

Until your details are finalized as far as your living arrangements, try implementing the 180 and detach from her.


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## Marduk

rubendlr said:


> Update May 14, 2016.
> 
> Update, I guess all you naysayers were right. We're back in the toilet again. I don't quite know what happened again. Blindsided part two. I am sorry about giving false hope to others.
> I am sure there are some happy endings somewhere. The romantic in me needs to believe that. But mine will not be among them. I don't know what to do, I don't want to screw up my kids' lives, but I can't live in a loveless/sexless marriage, or worse yet just play dad while she goes out and makes a new life with someone else. She told me I need someone who is a better fit, and this time, I actually agree with her. I still love her of course, but I won't heal while she's around me. But I can't keep my house without her, and the situation with the kid's school is very complicated.
> 
> I am truly beyond myself, and don't know what to do. I wish I would have gotten a clue years ago when I actually might have had a better chance. I know I am not without fault, but she really did not make the seriousness of the situation clear to me, and maybe that's on both of us. I should have gotten it but she really should have tried to make me get it, if I could have saved what was once a beautiful relationship and avoid all this mess, I would have. Would have, should have, could have. It's all moot now.
> 
> Fair warning I WILL BE deleting this post I think. So anyone who wants to archive it, please do so. I will bring it down in a few days and start a new one. Or do you think it would serve the community better if I left up and changed the disclaimer on page one?
> 
> Please let me know what you think about what to do with this post.
> 
> Again please me nice. I am nice guy and don't deserve this.
> 
> This next part is weird also, but I guess I need to start somewhere. If you're a nice lady between 37-45 who lives in the Austin TX area, and would like to start what will be a very slow going relationship, I would like to hear from you. Full disclosure, I am short, Hispanic, and overweight (but I'm not a bus, either). But I do think I have a nice face, and I am a very considerate person, plus I have a very good job and love kids. I consider myself liberal and traditional at the same time, I'm Presbyterian.
> It will be way too soon for anything serious, But that does mean I just want a hook up. I don't want to be alone and If you don't either maybe we can meet for drinks or lunch. I will send a photo if you want. If this is the wrong place for this pitch, let me know where to put it and I'll edit it out this thread and move it to where it needs to be.
> 
> Ruben DLR


What is clear to me is that you reconciled because you're afraid to be alone. That's what I thought from the beginning when you happily ate the **** sandwich that she served up for you.

Now it's abundantly clear because the first thing you're seeking is Mrs. Next, rather than finding yourself as mr single.

PS. 

There's another dude. Again.

Get divorced. Stop talking to this woman. Find out who you really are -- alone. Eat good, sleep good, excercise, hang with some buddies.

A year from now, start dating.


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## BassGuy919

No that's the whole thing, the divorce petition has NOT been filed yet. So technically anything that happens outside our marriage would be legally considered infidelity. In the state I live in, adultery/infidelity is a ground for divorce. We have no faults too, but I think would be in better standing in the court if I could prove she's being unfaithful.

RDLR


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## BassGuy919

_Yeah, it was stupid of me to post this - 
This next part is weird also, but I guess I need to start somewhere. If you're a nice lady between 37-45 who lives in the Austin TX area, and would like to start what will be a very slow going relationship, I would like to hear from you. Full disclosure, I am short, Hispanic, and overweight (but I'm not a bus, either). But I do think I have a nice face, and I am a very considerate person, plus I have a very good job and love kids. I consider myself liberal and traditional at the same time, I'm Presbyterian.
It will be way too soon for anything serious, But that does mean I just want a hook up. I don't want to be alone and If you don't either maybe we can meet for drinks or lunch. I will send a photo if you want. If this is the wrong place for this pitch, let me know where to put it and I'll edit it out this thread and move it to where it needs to be._

I have no business dating anyone right now. You're right.

Ruben DLR


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## samyeagar

rubendlr said:


> No that's the whole thing, the divorce petition has NOT been filed yet. So technically anything that happens outside our marriage would be legally considered infidelity. In the state I live in, adultery/infidelity is a ground for divorce. We have no faults too, but I think would be in better standing in the court if I could prove she's being unfaithful.
> 
> RDLR


Grounds for divorce, yes, but in most states where both at fault, and no fault divorces are granted, the grounds are completely separate from final judgement, meaning things like property division, alimony are unaffected by the grounds...fault or no fault. At best, the benefit could be a reduced, or no waiting period before final judgement, but in a lot of states, the waiting period can be waived.

In short, in most cases, there is no material advantage to proving fault...it just a waste of time, energy, and resources.


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## BassGuy919

I see, thank you for the information.

RubenDLR


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## BassGuy919

So as to posters who said I am afraid of being alone, you're right.

I had no business posting this: I left a "not" out of a sentence as well, that may made things seem stranger. The correction is all CAPS now. The sentence was supposed to read "But, that does NOT mean I just want a hook up."

*This next part is weird also, but I guess I need to start somewhere. If you're a nice lady between 37-45 who lives in the Austin TX area, and would like to start what will be a very slow going relationship, I would like to hear from you. Full disclosure, I am short, Hispanic, and overweight (but I'm not a bus, either). But I do think I have a nice face, and I am a very considerate person, plus I have a very good job and love kids. I consider myself liberal and traditional at the same time, I'm Presbyterian.
It will be way too soon for anything serious, But that does NOT mean I just want a hook up. I don't want to be alone and If you don't either maybe we can meet for drinks or lunch. I will send a photo if you want. If this is the wrong place for this pitch, let me know where to put it and I'll edit it out this thread and move it to where it needs to be.*

I need to get my stuff straight, first. Also I am way too vulnerable right now. Lastly, I would not be able to give anyone else a fair shot right now and I don't want hurt anyone including myself.

Thanks for calling me out on this.

RubenDLR


----------



## GusPolinski

*Re: Disclaimer: (I may have) saved a marriage, I don't know, but maybe this post can*



farsidejunky said:


> What will proof do? Isn't treating you terribly enough?


Since he's in TX, if he has proof of infidelity, he can file citing infidelity and _hopefully_ wind up not having to pay alimony.

@RDLR, start documenting everything.

And you might as well start talking w/ an attorney, especially w/ respect to the kind of proof that you'll need to prove infidelity.

And I'm sorry man.

As far as having your name changed goes, send a PM to one (or more of the mods)...
@Amplexor @EleGirl @FrenchFry @MEM11363 (MEM is probably your best bet)

There are a few other mods, but they aren't around as much these days.


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## anchorwatch

FrenchFry said:


> Thanks for the heads up but mods can't change names, only admins can at their discretion.
> 
> Try PMing @Yungster.


Can you move it to private for him?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

Rubin enough feeling sad for yourself, tell your wife either you are married and she acts like it our you are going to divorce her. Quit being passive in your own life, go talk to a lawyer already. Part of what's making you feel depressed and emasculated is your inaction. We are men, we do better when we act. If you can't do that, hit the gym loose some weight, join a bad as the bass player. Just stop sitting there feeling sorry for yourself. You can be sad but self pity isn't going to help you. 

If you don't feel you are making enough money go get some training so you can, you are only 43 you got a whole lot of life ahead of you and it can be happy but you have to work for it. Your life is not over dude. Come on one step at a time man!


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## MachoMcCoy

Hey man. Remember me? You hated me 3 months ago. I reread a lot tonight. I think I got a special shout out in one of your "take THAT, you haters" posts. It was an anonymous "someone", but I'm sure it was me. I was pretty hard on you. But I'm not here to gloat.

I just read this for the first time. 



BassGuy919 said:


> *I wish I would have gotten a clue years ago when I actually might have had a better chance. * I know I am not without fault, but she really did not make the seriousness of the situation clear to me, and maybe that's on both of us. I should have gotten it but she really should have tried to make me get it, if I could have saved what was once a beautiful relationship and avoid all this mess, I would have. Would have, should have, could have. It's all moot now.


Fascinating. It happened to you and you got it. Look at that bold sentence. I need to write a book that will get men to do EXACTLY what you just said there. While there's still a chance. You get it.

I saw your other thread. I'll pop in and follow your progress. Bar wh0res are one of my special interests in this forum. I'll be interested in hearing how THAT works out as well. Let's just say I know how you feel at home with the kids at 2AM. You need some help there. Meds or sleeping pills at least. You really need to get the **** out of that situation.

Enemies three months ago. Now we're compadres, sort of. Funny how that happens.


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## ThreeStrikes

Heh. Just read this thread. 20 year marriage filled with conflicts, and damaging arguments.

OP gets the ILYBNILWY line. (cowardly way to say "I'm not into you anymore.)

OP gets remedial counselling, including basic steps to keep arguments from escalating, and thinks he's found the magic wand to a happy marriage.

In fact, he's on such a high he goes to a marriage forum and arrogantly proposes he has the secret to saving bad marriages.

OP's wife bamboozles him for a month. One month. Out of 20 years. And all is right with the world.

Only its not.

OP, time to come down to the Divorce forums where you'll get some real advice. Because you are asleep, fella....and waking up is painful.


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## Mclane

ThreeStrikes said:


> OP, time to come down to the Divorce forums where you'll get some real advice. Because you are asleep, fella....and waking up is painful.


It appears the Op is coming to terms with reality as per his updated thread.


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## MAJDEATH

A reconciliation is not built in 1 month. 2-3 years minimum.


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## Begin again

MachoMcCoy said:


> Hey man. Remember me? You hated me 3 months ago. I reread a lot tonight. I think I got a special shout out in one of your "take THAT, you haters" posts. It was an anonymous "someone", but I'm sure it was me. I was pretty hard on you. But I'm not here to gloat.
> 
> I just read this for the first time.
> 
> 
> 
> Fascinating. It happened to you and you got it. Look at that bold sentence. I need to write a book that will get men to do EXACTLY what you just said there. While there's still a chance. You get it.
> 
> I saw your other thread. I'll pop in and follow your progress. Bar wh0res are one of my special interests in this forum. I'll be interested in hearing how THAT works out as well. Let's just say I know how you feel at home with the kids at 2AM. You need some help there. Meds or sleeping pills at least. You really need to get the **** out of that situation.
> 
> Enemies three months ago. Now we're compadres, sort of. Funny how that happens.


This really is key, and something that I don't know how to solve but would love to hear from men about. If you and your wife don't spend much time together, if you come home and go to separate rooms, if sex is meh or infrequent/non-existent, if you only talk about the kids, if you don't kiss/flirt... aren't these pretty clear signals?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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