# turned off by hubby, but my libido is huge...



## luckydogcafe

Hello everyone! This is my first post here, I just don't really know what else to do.

I have been married 12 years, with two beautiful boys, ages 6 and 3. Our sex life has been less than ideal since the beginning with issues ranging from pain during intercourse (that's fixed now), to thyroid issues (also not an issue now), to just plain tired from raising kids (not really an issue any more either!)

I don't believe I married him for love, I think I felt that I couldn't do better and settled, but we've had a great married life for most of the time, living as friends and having sex maybe 3-4 times a year. 

I've lacked physical interest in him for years, obviously, but last June I had a very, very good sex dream about a dear male friend of mine, and realized what i was missing in a relationship. This friend of mine and I have the most ridiculous chemistry that I've ever seen, and it was only enhanced by this dream.

I have absolutely no interest in sex with my husband, but am very physically attracted to my friend, as well as other men. We have literally tried everything to get over this and nothing is helping. His smell repulses me, when he touches me I cringe. He can't turn me on to save his life. But, he never could, i was okay with that though. Now, I'm not okay with it anymore. I'm 37, and don't want to end up 50 and look back and wish I had changed something sooner. (I have never been molested or raped, btw)

And, now, thanks to my relationship with my friend, I realize that i am not the problem in this marriage. not that my husband is either, but that we're just not making sense physically. I lack respect for him, and am not challenged by him emotionally or intellectually and i think that adds to the problem too. 

I don't like how he kisses me, we just don't fit in so many ways. But, I do love him (but not IN love with him?), he is a good provider, he is a great husband and person, which is why i can't make the decision to divorce him very easily. Is this something that can be fixed? How do I get passed all of these issues in order to want to have sex with him? He thinks it's all my fault and that I have sex issues, but I seriously do not.

I'll take any advice you have! Thanks a ton....


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## adora

Does he know you are unattracted by him? If so how does he feel? Maybe he could change something? Would he be comfortable with an "open" marriage exploring with another partner? More importantly would you feel comfortable with that?


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## luckydogcafe

Thanks adora....yes he knows. I have been ridiculously open and honest with him since day one. It has been hard to see him hurt like this, but I don't think we can fix anything by not talking about it.

I've actually encouraged him to have an open marriage, but mainly because I wanted to try someone else out to see if it was me or if it really was us. He says he can't do that. 

And, not that I'm even remotely proud of this, but it's the internet so I hope I can be open here...I have had sex with my friend since that dream. It was freaking amazing. And, just his hand on my face or neck gives me more chills and excitement than anything my husband and I have ever done combined. My friend however is potentially not an ideal mate for various reasons. he is single, but his employment is shaky at best. I just can't tear my kids away from my husband purely for better sex. but, if this can't be fixed I'm not sure what else I'll be able to do.


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## MarkTwain

luckydogcafe-

Have you been reading my articles? Your situation is exactly what I was referring to  Let me know if it rings any bells. 

Sexless Marraige?

I have a theory on the smell thing, maybe...


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## Amplexor

luckydogcafe said:


> I lack respect for him, and am not challenged by him emotionally or intellectually and i think that adds to the problem too.


It is very possible that this is the core of the problem. If you don’t respect your spouse it would be difficult to find that electricity you are looking for. I believe the problem can be fixed or improved with therapy, communication and just good old fashion romance. Your husband needs to know what you seek emotionally and sexually. And sex 3 or 4 times a year certainly isn’t working at improving. If it is that infrequent can you imaging the stress he must feel when you engage? Especially if you’ve made him aware that he doesn’t’ do the trick for you. Lovemaking skills can be improved but it takes practice and communication. What about TOM thrills you in sex with him? Is it his looks, his touch or just the excitement of doing something you know you shouldn’t be doing? One thing for sure, sleeping with this other man will not improve your marriage. It may lead you to feeling great remorse, low esteem and hurt your husband and children badly. Before any improvement can be found in your marriage and sex life, that relationship must end.


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## luckydogcafe

MarkTwain....wow. that is definitely on the mark! I'd say it's the respect section that i identified with the most. (great job, btw!!!) I've talked about this with him, but his personality is such that he just isn't an aggressive type. I was initially attracted to that, or at least, not repulsed by it, in the beginning of our relationship because I was an only child and very much used to being in charge. I had no problem being the "man" of the relationship. My husband acts like a baby when he's sick and has literally said he wants me to be his mommy. i find that weird. and very unmanly. I understand the element of taking care of a loved one when they are sick, but it was as though he demanded me be his mommy and it turned me off.

I am no longer the type of person who needs to be in charge, due to many years of trying to change that as well as having kids...they aren't easy to control!  And now seek someone who will protect me and take control.

I'd be interested in your smell theory too!

Amplexor....Since i brought up our situation last June, we have had more sex than probably in our 12 years of marriage combined. I am being as open with my interests as possible. I've done everything but give him a freaking map to my g-spot with absolutely no luck. In fact there was one night when he was giving me oral and I said "right there! that's it!!" and he FREAKING WENT TO A DIFFERENT SPOT!!! Seriously. And then he preceeded to lick me like a freaking cat drinking milk and said he heard from howard stern that chicks like that. OMG. so, ya see...what do i do? i guess after years of getting nothing, i expect nothing. he wants to try, but i actually feel like it's pointless. i feel like a hooker most times that we have sex. it's like i'm providing a service. me no likey.

as for TOM, i can only say it must be a.) he's very strong and protecting and b.) we have some kind of crazy chemistry. My arm hairs stand up on end when i'm just a few feet away. He listens to me, he is funny and smart and actually remembers things I talk about, even a week, months later. He has talents like painting and he loves to cook. and of course I trust him completely b/c of our 27 year friendship.

i truly know that having this affair was not a brilliant choice, and worry constantly about how it might affect things. But in a sense it has opened my eyes to what I could have. That there is more to life than living with a friend. That it's NOT me...though my husband is adamant that i don't know how to have sex or have feelings. and of course I can't tell him that I know differently, so I just sit silently and know that's not the case.

TOM is strong and more aggressive during sex, and makes me excited, but he's also just shaped more manly. more shoulder muscles, bigger, stronger hands...Oh, and my husband, he's tall and fairly slender, with girly hands...we wear the same size gloves, but his johnson is ginormous! way too wide and long for me, which has obviously posed it's own set of problems!

also important to know is that my 6 year old has said things like "I don't love daddy" "i don't want daddy to be here" when asked what he would do if daddy didn't live with us, he said "well, I wouldn't cry." He has said these things to my husbands face. my dh is a good guy, and a good father, but perhaps not as present as he should be with the kids. clearly my oldest is picking something up. and it's not from me. i do not act differently to my dh, and don't talk about him in front of ds. he must just sense it, unless he truly doesn't have feelings for dh.

there's so much to this story, it seems very hard to piece it together. part of me just wants to chuck it, but a big part of me wants to make it work. when someone says make your marriage work, my gut reaction is of dread. when someone says leave your husband, i freak about that too. flip a coin!


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## marina72

"I don't believe I married him for love, I think I felt that I couldn't do better and settled, but we've had a great married life for most of the time" 

I'm sure this is obvious, but perhaps you shouldn't have married him.

What you did to him was not really fair, was it? Knowing you were marrying someone that you didn't respect, that you had no itellectual connection with, that you weren't attracted to sexually. And you're shocked that you're now, cheating on him? I wonder if he knows about your infidelity? 

I think you ought to set him free, so he can find someone who'll apprectiate him, and not be repulsed by every single thing about him.

What about him? What you're doing, is not fair to him. NOt in the least. 

Sounds like you've already made your choice, you're having sex with someone else. So, unless you're willing to stop it Immediately, and work on your marriage, then it's fairly hopeless, as you can't fix your marriage, And have sex with someone else at the same time.

so , if you're serious about saving it, you'll have to cut off all contact with the other man, and come clean to your husband, and admit what you've done, so that he can heal, forgive you, or leave you. It's the Least he deserves, since , as you say, he's a great person, great Dad, great husband, and great provider.

I guess this is the price you pay for just "settling"... but it's unfortunate, that your husband, is having to pay the price too, and constantly hear how he's not doing it for you sexually.

I hope you two can work it out. Good luck


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## marina72

by the way, All kids will occasionally say that they don't love a parent, it's not unusual at All for a 6 year old child, to say such things, if they are mad at the parent, or if they sense discord between them, or if one parent is "playing" the child's affection for them, off the other parent. 

It almost seems as if maybe you're wanting this to be true, so that you have even more of a reason to say you're justified in sleeping with someone else, and being "repulsed" by everything about your husband?

I am just guessing. You need to know one thing though. YOu said it's Not you, Yes... it is. You're the problem at this point, not your husband. He's not the one cheating , is he? 

It's you... you are the one who is repulsed, you are the one who is seemingly never satisfied with Anything he does, you are the one who is having adulterous sex, you are the one who doesn't like his , 

Hands, his feet, his hair, his height, his unaggressive behavior, his way with the kids, his this, his that, etc.....

It's you Luckydogcafe... You can't see how impossibly hard to please you might be? 

Face reality, don't blame this all on your husband, who got married in good faith, thinking his wife actually loved him. 

What you're doing to him, cheating, the way you speak of him... that is Not love. 

I might differ from the other posters, in that, I think it's time you set him free to find a woman that is worth his time. and that's not you.

Perhaps you can run off with your lover, his friend, of 27 years. But he, your husband, deserves better than you. Sorry....


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## MarkTwain

luckydogcafe said:


> I'd be interested in your smell theory too!


Tell me exactly when you noticed you didn't like his smell. I presume you either did not notice before, or you actually liked it.

I'm going to be honest with you - your husband will probably never be able to compete with the other guys chemistry. However, you might find that if you moved in with him, arguments would start, and the magic would wear off pretty quickly.

You could train your husband to be a better lover, I think you're just annoyed that he did not get it in one go.


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## luckydogcafe

MarkTwain...thank you. i can seriously say though that it has been more than one shot. I realize it's difficult to know someone's story on a board like this, it's impossible to give all the vital details over a 12 year period. We have experimeted, we have watched things, read things...you name it. I am nothing if not vocal about what i'm looking for...and also about making sure i do what HE wants. This is a two way street...he gets what he likes and needs when we have sex and has even said that he hasn't minded waiting so long in between because when he does get it, it's well worth the wait. 

The smell has probably been most of, if not all of our relationship. he used colognes and stuff in the beginning, and I suggested he try that again. but it's his natural smell that is unappealing to me. 

and marina 72, you have a lot of facts wrong. I am deeply hurt by many things that you said, but realize that not everyone wants to take the time to see both sides. nor is it possible to give enough information for you to understand clearly. I married him when I was young and come from a family that doesn't show much love. i thought marriage was supposed to be like that and thought i was doing great by finding someone I at least enjoyed spending time with. forget about passion! we had fun together, but after awhile you realize it's just a brother/sister or friend type of relationship and i longed for more.

I am not going to leave this marriage without making sure we've covered all of our bases. I am not in a physical relationship with TOM anymore. I realize that focusing on my marriage is important enough to do that. 

And, by saying it's not me, I meant that it's not me who is the problem with our lack of sex. he has blamed me for that and made me feel like a complete troll, like I have no feelings and can't possibly enjoy sex no matter what. now, b/c of the affair, I can safely cross that off my "fault" list. our marriage issues are both of ours...it takes two, right? he doesn't want to change. who's fault is that? does that mean he's not to blame if he's not willing to bend a little? I've changed a lot and am confident that we are trying harder than 99% of other married couples. That's why i posted here...because I'm desperate to find a reason to my lack of sexual interest in him. if there's a pill or a potion, i'll take it! 

i've told him he deserves better than me, and he says i'm the best thing that's ever happened to him and he loves me...even after i've told him about all these things that i feel. i owe him this much to figure it out. 

thanks to all of you for your help, but i'm wondering if this was such a good idea. how could i possibly have thought a bunch of strangers would be able to help me when I have to fit 12 years into such a tiny box?


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## Amplexor

luckydogcafe said:


> I am not going to leave this marriage without making sure we've covered all of our bases. I am not in a physical relationship with TOM anymore. I realize that focusing on my marriage is important enough to do that.


But are you in an emotional one with him?


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## MarkTwain

luckydogcafe said:


> That's why i posted here...because I'm desperate to find a reason to my lack of sexual interest in him. if there's a pill or a potion, i'll take it!


I can give you a technique to make him seem hotter, but you won't like it  And I will have to ask you more questions...

Can you try to describe his natural smell, and why you don't like it?


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## marina72

you gave your side only, not his. I pointed out things that any person could gather from reading your post. I am sorry if you're hurt. But perhaps you don't want to hear something that might paint you in a bad light. I mean, my God, you're the one who is having Sex with someone else , right? 

You basically, if you'll read your posts, blamed almost the Entire failure of the marriage, the sex problems, your husbands "smell"...All on him...

You didn't appear to take any responsibility for the breakdown of the marriage, or your affair , except to say that it wasn't "brilliant"

How about adulterous, hurtful, wrong, mean, cruel, imorral..

Why do none of those things come to mind?

Lucky, I was only trying to make you see, that perhaps , and you Admitted this... 

You shouldn't have married someone you Knew you couldn't love, and respect, and make love to. That was your fault not his.

And all you have done , in any of your posts, is go on and on, about how he cant' do anything right, or he's this or that. 

Now, I dont' know if he has done things to hurt you, or not/

I went based off of what You wrote. And what You wrote, sounds , shallow, mean, hypocritical, and like you're taking no responsiblity for your marital problems. I'm not speaking of the affair.

Maybe he's not satisfied with you? Did that ever occur to you? And if he were to say all the kinds of things, that you just did, about you... what would you think? 

I think maybe you're being so self centered you can't see his side, and how much you're screwing up. 

You had the gall to say it wasn't You.... and you're just not willing in my opinion to face reality , and know that , it is in fact, You.

Not saying he is perfect either, or that you both haven't done things and said things, that contributed to the breakdown. But, for you to say, that it's his problem, and it's him...

That shows you're unwilling to admit your wrongs..
and so far, from what you have posted, it sounds to me like you're doing a lot more wrong, than he is.

That's just what I gathered. If you want to hear people sympathize with you, and say how horrible is it that you settled and are now unsatisfied, and basically have everyone agree with you, well.... I'm giving a different view, and you just can't handle it.

Pretty hard to sit and have someone go on and on, about you, isnt' it? But that is exactly what you've just done, with regards to your husband.


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## MarkTwain

marina72-

I think this woman is being brutally honest with herself and everyone else, I'm all for it. Not only that, but she is looking for a solution.


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## marina72

you're right mark, and I"m being brutally honest with her.

If you really read her first two posts, they reek of self centeredness and blame almost all of this, on the husband

not only that, but having an affair, having Sex with someone else, well, it's unforgivable to a lot of people. I am not saying it will be to her hubby, but, she's acting as though, even though it was not brilliant, that it's excusable, since he smells, and can't please her in bed.

Again, he is now having to suffer , because she married someone she knew she didn't truly want, for life. And I am sure he smelled back then to, if it's his personal scent.

I just didn't get the callous and cold tone of her first two posts. And then when someone has the balls to point out that she's the one having the adulterous affair, and that maybe it's A Lot her fault.... she get's self righteous and "hurt"..

I am certain it's not all her fault, as I say, it never is only one person. But I think perhaps she's under the impression, or at least that is how it sure sounded, that it was Mostly her husband's fault.

It takes two to make a marriage work. But it only takes one to cheat.


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## MarkTwain

marina72-

You know you're one of my favourite people, but I have to tell you, you are missing something here. This woman is not quite the way you see her.


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## Mdcl33

Hello luckydogcafe,
This is my first time also at any sort of Internet chat so I thought I would join in on this one. When I started reading your post, I thought for a minute that my wife had posted something. Other than the ages of the children, your scenario is almost identical to mine. 

I have read about how you are not attracted to your husband (smells, touch, etc.) and I feel that my wife feels that way about me sometimes. It used to not be that way but over the past few years it seems to have gradually developed. I honestly have no idea what changed. I'm not a slob and I try to do everything she hints at me. 

When did you know that you were no longer attracted to your husband? How did it make you feel? Was there something he did (an event, etc.) that changed everything?

I would like to make our marriage work since we do have a decent marriage for the most part but it is hard as a man to know that your wife is not attracted to you for some reason. 

I know you are looking for advice but maybe we can help each other out since I have the role of the other person in your situation and vice versa.

Thanks.


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## marina72

well, I am sure you're correct. I was just picking up on some serious denial on her part. 

but as you say, and she said, you can't always pin it down off of here, since you don't get both sides.

but the same goes for you too then, there might be things, that you're missing, that I can see , that you can't.... See? 

at any rate, I do know that my posts didnt' necessarily sound the same as the others, but that's the nice thing about this forum, I was just trying to give her some advice, from my own point of view, and many differing points of view, are good think. But, since she got so upset by my honesty , I shant say anything more on the matter. 

I wish them luck though.


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## luckydogcafe

amplexor...he has been my friend for 27 years, and will always be my friend. being his friend is not what caused my marital problems.

mark...i don't know if i can describe it. i guess it's kind of musky or old smelling, like an old man, and on occasion like my dad. let me know what you have, because like I said, I'm looking for the answers.

and finally, marina72....i just re-read my first two posts. If you'll notice in the first one, all the reasons I give for our sex life not being so great, are ALL my fault! did you see that? ALL MY FAULT!! fatigue....pain during sex....thyroid.

I also said we had a great married life. I married him thinking we would be married forever, just not necessarily that I would be madly in love with him forever, and I'm not even sure I TRULY realized that until the last few years. Hindsight is 20/20, and sometimes people make decisions that feel right for the wrong reasons. My mom even told me once "marry your friend, and the love will follow" not sure that worked out the way she said, but hey, i tried!

Our friendly relationship got us this far, and could've gone, may still go farther yet, if we could figure out the sex.

and, furthermore, if he does everything so absolutely perfectly, then I wouldn't be posting here, would I? Clearly I have faults...everyone does. But in this instance, according to my husband, I am not a nag, I do nothing wrong in his eyes...except the occasional moodiness or obvious lack of sex. (did you see that? HE said this, not me!!) So it's not just me saying it's not me, it's also him. I am not trying to come across as arrogant or self centered, but seriously. If it was me, i'd be fixing it. I even offered to take stripper pole classes once, if he would consider taking cooking classes or guitar lessons. he turned that down because he didn't think I needed to change. Even though I had just told him that I was turned on by guys who like to cook and/or play guitar. I gave him incentive and reward and he turned that down. this was three years ago.

The tone and wording in my first two posts are listing just the facts. it's virtually impossible to deliver any emotion through this medium. And, I am trying to solve this issue by giving my side, so obviously it's going to come across more self centered.

I have initiated therapy...he didn't want to do it. I started going by myself. We are seeking a marriage/sex therapist together now because he FINALLY realizes it *might* be serious, and possibly a couples weekend or something along those lines.

i can totally list what I think my faults are for you, if that makes you feel better. But, if my husband doesn't see them, or they don't bother him, then do they really count?

As for not seeing his side of things....I have done NOTHING but try to see his side of things. I have talked to any male friends of mine who have divorced to get their opinion, I have talked to his mom to get her opinion on what his dad was like before they got divorced, I have talked to him, his best friends, anyone who will listen. I want nothing more than to be gentle on him and treat him with respect. But, i need to do the same to myself and my kids. Divorce is not fun or easy and i feel like i'm doing my best to try to solve this, and if it can't be solved, I haven't trampled anyone's life by surprising them with divorce papers.

i don't want people to just agree with me, believe that if you can. I want to hear all advice, but like I said before, when the advice seems to be coming from an angry place that doesn't have all the facts, it is unnecessarily hurtful. I am a sensitive person and take things to heart, even if they aren't true. I just don't know if it is possible to show all sides and angles and issues in this marriage, in this limited space.

I appreciate all the help, though, i really do.


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## marina72

it's not about believing you or not believing you, it's about interpreting, a written post. And I just don't see that. I saw an unfeeling cold person, not taking full responsiblity for an adulterous affair, calling merely, "not brilliant"

It's the most horrible thing you can do to a spouse, the biggest most deepest, kind of betrayel there is. Something you can never take back, and once you've crossed that line, it's crossed. Not that people can't get back from that, and be happy again. 

but lucky.... I am not saying in any way, that everything has been you, or hiim. what I mean by it's you , is that it's you right now. Your first post, was mostly , a barage of complaints about him, and what he can't possibly do right, and even his smell. not that you're not entitled to be grossed out , but seriously, you admitted that at the beginning, you knew you were settling, and then in the end, after twelve years, you have an affair.

Now, if you think that having an affair, is seeing his side of things, then that's your interpretation of trying to work it out. To me, it's selfish, and destructive, and that's how it is to most people. 


I fully admit, that a marriage always takes two to make good, and to screw up. I know that, as I'm married too. But, I wouldn' thave married someone that I Knew for a fact, I was totally incompatible with. But you did. Said and done. Now , the question is, what do you do about it. 

well, first , you don't have an affair.

You don't nit pick every single thing about your partner, and even complain about the way he gives you oral sex, not that that is not okay, I am not saying you don't have a right to be satisfied, but you must know, that when you say all those things, and the tone you used, was not loving and caring, it was mean, hurtful, and like you're tired of not having a hot relationship with your man, and tired of his stench. that it will not give the impression of you being the innocent one here. 

You don't really seem all that remorseful about your affair, it's almost as if you think it was justified. I wonder if you'd say the same if your man did that to you. 

I just called it like I saw it, and I was the only one who said anything bluntly honest, and who had the nerve to be open to the possiblity , that you're a huge part of the problem in your marriage, and the only one who pointed out how horrible your affair is, and was. And what a surprise, you jumped down my neck.

You can't fix what you won't acknowledge... to quote Dr. Phil

Good luck to you, and your family. I hope you can find happiness, and I'm sorry if my blunt way, hurt you, that was not my intention, but I do know that I am a fairly straight forward type, and it's not always received well , and so that's my fault and I"m sorry if I upset you.


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## Amplexor

luckydogcafe said:


> This friend of mine and I have the most ridiculous chemistry that I've ever seen.





luckydogcafe said:


> he has been my friend for 27 years, and will always be my friend. being his friend is not what caused my marital problems..


And you don't feel these two statements are in conflict with your marriage?? :scratchhead:

You have and EA and had a PA with this man. Until you are ready to let that relationship go, there is little hope for your marriage or an opportunity for you to see him in an unbiased light. Sounds like you husband is a decent guy. He deserves better IMHO.


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## luckydogcafe

mdcl33, i appreciate you asking me for advice. i agree with you, if i can help you see her side of things, it will be very helpful to you. here's hoping!!

we have had issues our whole marriage, beginning with me not really looking forward to walking down the aisle...that's my fault.

i thought about divorce after ds1, but God, or whatever you call it had other plans, and without going into details, we very miraculously got pregnant again. I knew then i couldn't get a divorce. sure, that was a bad decision too, but you do what you can with what you have. 

between all of these bad moments, there were years of loving and caring and happy times. i felt blessed more times than not, but it was all the down times that seem to stand out more and become immovable. I don't know that there was a particular instance that changed my feelings. But perhaps that they weren't there from the beginning.

can you ask your wife if she was in love with you from the beginning? maybe she's going through what i am? maybe she's just not able to accept that as an option? it's not fun to realize that you don't or never did love the one you're married to.

My best advice is just serious open communication. my dh and i have talked ourselves to death over this, and we plan to start talking each night about the things we have done right/wrong to each other each day in order to fine tune it if possible.

I don't know if that helps, but feel free to ask more specific questions. good luck! it's so not fun, for either side. i know this for sure.

dear marina....i am sorry to have jumped down your throat. i don't believe i reacted to anyone else because everyone else responded somewhat neutrally...it was as though they were trying to find out details first, whereas you jumped in, guns blazing, before really knowing me. it felt like a personal attack, and i responded defensively.

honestly, i am not proud of what happened with TOM, but for some reason I dont feel the guilt that I think i should feel. i don't know if it's because he's a friend, or if it's because I'm not a very religious person, or if it just hasn't sunk in yet. but also, it has helped me too. I know affairs are bad, and I wish it hadn't gotten to that. but in this case the affair was the symptom, not the cause. and it has opened my eyes to what is really wrong in my marriage. i hope i can take that lesson and move forward instead of dwelling on it. 

i believe you and amplexor in that he deserves better. BUT, so do i. does that mean it has to be a different person for either of us? can it just be a better version of ourselves? Isn't that what evolving and compromise are all about? no one enters life, or marriage as perfect. it's a series of lessons that shape us into being as good as we can be. and it's how we view those lessons, and learn from them that matter.

my only hope is that i can learn what is wrong with our marriage, why i suddenly can't get past (or ignore) the smell issues et al.

i appreciate all opinions. i hope something works, and thank you for your kind thoughts...


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## marina72

well, I do agree with one thing, you both deserve better. You shouldn't have to be unhappy either, no one would try to say that's fair. So, if it can't be resolved, and I hope it can, as you have kids and they are the most important thing. 

At least if you can both agree to go your separate ways and be good parents, maybe it will work out.

In the end, you'll have to do , what is best for you, your husband and your children.
Good luck to you.


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## Amplexor

Many on this forum (Including myself EA) turned here because their spouse had an affair. We can get pretty hard on some one who has cheated but it is emotional and painful for us to hear someone justify cheating.. Being religious is not the point in your lack of guilt. Morality is and if you don’t feel morally wrong in this affair there is not much anyone can say to change that. But I do applaud you for trying to make the marriage work. I know from experience that when a spouse emotionally attaches to another person their perspective, feelings, opinions and concepts of the one they vowed to love change and it is nearly impossible for them to overcome that while this other person is in their life. No matter what your husband might do it is unlikely you will bond with him again as long as you have this relationship with TOM. Sorry that’s just the way I see it. Leaving that “friendship” will not doubt be difficult and is not the only piece of the puzzle but it is an important part. If you really want to give your husband a fair shot, sever all ties with TOM for good and concentrate on your marriage. Don’t even consider him as Plan B if the marriage ends in divorce. As far as the smell issues go, let him know about it and see if there are hygiene issues that might deal with it. If not have him see a doctor and shop for a cologne that you like. Good luck.


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## MarkTwain

luckydogcafe said:


> mark...i don't know if i can describe it. i guess it's kind of musky or old smelling, like an old man, and on occasion like my dad. let me know what you have, because like I said, I'm looking for the answers.


My viewpoint is different form the others here. I don't think any less of you for the EA and PA. To me it's a symptom rather than a cause. 

So to move on to my methods (which you won't like)... I first have to ask you do you orgasm during sex, or solo or both?


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## luckydogcafe

wow, mark....you sure don't waste any time! haha. to be 100% honest, I did not know what an orgasm was until my dh told me about it and how to have it, while we were dating. my first sexual experience was at 19, i had probably 9 or 10 sexual partners before my dh. but no orgasm, but also no pain that I remember anyway. (maybe they weren't as big as he is?)

once he told me that lots of college girls use vibrators, I tried one out, found out what the big O was, but have never had one with sex. my half sister has said she has trouble with that too...could it be a hereditary thing? i did not know of this until recently as we are not all that close, and she is 20 years older than me, so it never felt quite right to discuss with her.

and, the EA/TOM never accomplished that either...but I came much closer than I ever did with dh because of the physical energy/chemistry.

next question?


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## MarkTwain

luckydogcafe said:


> next question?


Are you having orgasms solo, and if so how often?


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## Dancing Nancie

Amplexor said:


> And you don't feel these two statements are in conflict with your marriage?? :scratchhead:
> 
> You have and EA and had a PA with this man. Until you are ready to let that relationship go, there is little hope for your marriage or an opportunity for you to see him in an unbiased light. Sounds like you husband is a decent guy. He deserves better IMHO.


I completely agree with Amplexor on this. 

From what i have read it sounds to me that you are attracted physically to your friend, but could never be with him because of his employment history and overall stability. You are wanting to have the body and johnson of your friend but the stability of your husband. 

I will say that my wife and I had an attrocious sex life for years. It is a lot better now 10 months after starting to work on things. To make that happen it takes two people dedicated to making that work. I do understand that he has been hesitant up to now. You will need to make an ultimatum and tell him that this is a sticking point in your marriage for you. You will leave if this area of your life is not given the attention it deserves.

This also will not happen with the thought of your "friend". You must let one or the other go. You can't be attracted to your husband when your ideal physical partner and one time lover is in your life.

I do understand the temptations of someone else. I have been sorely tempted on many occasions over the years. You can either give your marriage a chance to be what you need it to be, or just let it go.


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## luckydogcafe

Yes, solo. Depends on the mood. Each time I can have at least 3-5 in one setting. Probably, these days, it's just a few times a month. But during most of our marriage I didn't do it. But I think my libido was low due to thyroid. It has increased greatly since June. I hope that answers it.


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## MarkTwain

luckydogcafe said:


> Yes, solo. Depends on the mood. Each time I can have at least 3-5 in one setting. Probably, these days, it's just a few times a month. But during most of our marriage I didn't do it. But I think my libido was low due to thyroid. It has increased greatly since June. I hope that answers it.


OK, I have two thing for you to try.

1) Stop giving yourself orgasms for now. This will make you more horny over time, especially if you say your libido is higher at the moment.

2) His smell. This is most interesting. I could write whole books on the subject. I have the best sense of smell of anyone I have ever met. 

It is not possible to mask a smell you don't like with a perfume. I suppose that if the perfume or aftershave is strong enough, it will crowd out the fainter smell, but not to the point where you could have sex and not notice it.

So I am guessing that you both love and hate his smell. You would never have married him if you truly hated his smell. It is interesting to note that it reminds you of your dad's smell.

I need your comment on this before I go further. Unfortunately it is my bedtime now, but I will write a reply in the morning. What I am going to suggest might be too much for you, Uh-Oh.


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## martino

Luckydogcafe, 

Your husband isn't your type plain and simple. You are attracted to alpha males, he is not that. You have to decide to live with that or end the marriage, and he has to as well. Like many others here i'm struggling with wife and our major differences. We took vows at 22!! we're now in late 30's, we've both changed and gotten to know ourselves better. 

Ok your situation, first how does he smell out of the shower? right out of it? bad? could it be the soap or shampoo? smell it. Next check his deodorant, his cologne, shaving cream (or shave soap?), after shave, check it all out then take him to Macy's or Nordstrom's to buy some quality scents.

Start telling him what you like in bed. I was clueless till I started thumbing through those silly romance novels you women read. My wife has piles of them and they are all the same, some espionage story with a romance building and building to a helpless woman that gives in to her own desires to the forceful and strong man. I would have never ever known but I soon found out my wife is super turned on when i'm a little mean and very agressive, she even likes to get bitten. I'm not an alpha male, I don't even like those type personalities but I had to learn about them to get her going. Some guys need to have the dots connected for them sorry but that's just how it is.......


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## GAsoccerman

I say you cut your husband loose, and divorce him, you can both be good parents to your children, let your husband find someone that can love him, not "tolerate" him.

your in love with your friend....go find happiness.

Hopefully you and your hubby can be good friends and do what is right by the children.

Also for son's to be "anti-dad" at age 6 is normal, they want their mothers attention, it is perfectly normal. Especially for the oldest boy.


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## luckydogcafe

mark...thanks again, I'm not sure what I am supposed to comment on about that last post though....did I miss something? i agree with you so far...

martino/GAsoccerman: i know you are right about him not being my type, at least not the type I'm attracted to, but i just keep agonizing over this decision. I'm sort of an alpha female, and in the long run i don't think i'd be happy with an alpha male. i am trying to see if it's possible for me to fall back into love, or to create a new kind of love with him.

Maybe I'm crazy, but i certainly don't want to regret anything, which is why i'm trying so hard to find the answers. we get along nicely, he's attractive, and the nicest guy ever. I just need to adjust my expectations I think. I'm not perfect. I am trying to see things from the other side in hopes that I can save this marriage. If I could find a way to be physically attracted to him, then the rest should follow.

I don't think any marriage is perfect, so why destroy my family and tear my kids' life appart for a pipe dream? If you could guarantee me that I'd be truly happy with someone else, then I would do it, but I've never met a person yet who can do that.


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## martino

Well I guess you need to have a talk with him then.


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## MarkTwain

luckydogcafe-

Let me repeat the relevant bit.



> So I am guessing that you both love and hate his smell. You would never have married him if you truly hated his smell. It is interesting to note that it reminds you of your dad's smell.


Can you comment on fully on the loving his smell aspect.


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## luckydogcafe

okay, this is weird. today I was feeling extremely claustrophobic about this whole marriage situation I'm in. I don't know if it's because of this site and all the opinions, and the fact that I'm really digging in deeper now, or if it's just the natural state to be in when your marriage is caving in. But, i feel like I can't breathe when i think about putting my marriage back together and I start binge eating like crazy. But when I think about leaving it feels sad too. I can't seem to feel strongly for either direction. 

Then, I smelled my husband today and he didn't repel me this time. I even smelled all over to make sure it wasn't just his cologne. So, why would this bother me sometimes and not others? He did switch colognes to one that I used to like, but i'm pretty sure i was getting his natural smell too.

And, someone else thought it was strange that a smell was having this effect on me, like perhaps I was molested, but I certainly don't remember that, or have any reason to believe that.

SO, I think I'm going to start keeping track of his smell and when i am repulsed by it versus when it smells good to me. maybe it's related to my cycle? or maybe it's something about his stress level? actually come to think of it, he's had high blood pressure, and just started a medication for it yesterday...could that be something?

this is fascinating to me....i'm looking forward to figuring something out!


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## luckydogcafe

sorry Mark, i must have been replying when you posted, I didn't see this.

i don't actually remember LOVING his smell, but i also don't really remember being repulsed by it. His towel that he used right out of the shower had a bad smell to it for a long time, I always commented on how could a clean towel smell bad after a clean body was wiped with it? Plus, his pillow smells bad to me, and our small bedroom can take on his body odor that I don't like too.

today, he had just gotten done working out and we had just gotten back from a walk outside, so maybe some of his good smell was coming from that too?


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## MarkTwain

What you've just suggested in the last posts was exactly what I was going to suggest 

I want you to really take in his smell, and keep a sell diary  You had better hide it.

Something is going on...

What did you think about my orgasm idea?


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## luckydogcafe

wow, that's crazy that you were going to suggest it. he knows I'm keeping track of it, he thinks it's funny/weird, but we're doing whatever we can. i start my cycle in about 5 days, so i'm wondering if i'm repulsed by him mostly when i'm ovulating? that might be interesting.

the orgasm thing is totally fine. i agree with what you're saying about the build up. the only thing is that I really never did that much at all over the course of our marriage, and we still didn't have much of a sex life, so apparently the build up theory didn't work there? 

of course, just because his smell isn't repulsing me today, i do recognize that we have deeper issues than just this. it's just a matter of which one seems to be raising it's ugly head that day. I'm meeting with a bunch of women tonight to talk about this issue, and maybe they'll have some new approach too.

thanks mark...you're seriously awesome for helping me like this! I really appreciate it!


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## MarkTwain

luckydogcafe-

Can you take a clean towel, rub it all over him, and take it to these ladies to smell also. I want to know whether it's simply that he has a strong smell or whether it's something that only you are reacting to. How old is he?


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## luckydogcafe

ha! I don't think his smell is that strong! I honestly think it's me. It's not a B.O. smell, it's more of a pheromone/natural smell I think.

It just reminds me kind of of old man smell...his pillow case, the collar of shirts, jackets etc. If he hasn't washed his hair in a day or so...

He's 38.


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## amorebeautifulquestion

luckiedogcafe,

Thank you for sharing your story on this forum. First, I would like to dispel at least two myths about relationships that I have learned. We all settle and we are all high maintenance. How do I know we all settle? Ask any couple if they would change just one thing about their partner and tally up the number who say, “No I wouldn’t change a thing.” Guess what? The other 99.9% settled. Nothing wrong with that.

Perhaps I missed something but nobody seems to be discussing your husband’s sexual satisfaction. He deserves a fulfilling sex life as much as you do. How many times a week would he engage in sex if he had his say in the matter?

Also, did you used birth control pills at anytime during the courtship or marriage? If so please attempt to list the years you were on them and off of them. Have you been using them during the time period you have been having sex with your friend?


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## mitkit46

Luckydog I feel for ya. I'm feeling the same way and I have been married for less than two years.

apparently, I'm a dumb a-s, cause I didn't get what I thought I was gettin.

I was living in another state than my husband and moved to where he was, so I didn't get to see much of the day to day. 

My husband is a good provider as well and very stable, however, I didn't realize he didn't know how to do ANYTHING!

The man acts like he doesn't know how to do ANYTHING. He can't hang a towel rack, he doesn't know how to roll paint on the wall, he can't plant a plant, he can't hang a light, etc... He doesn't communicate well. He is very uptight and he is in his own little world.

He has even said that it was like he was on vacation when he came to visit me, so he was a completely different person.

He often repulses me as well. I understand the feeling of having a man that is not very manly. My husband would do the exact same thing as your husband did when you were trying to show him where your g-spot is . 

My husband has actually "whinned", yes, whinned in bed when I have asked him to do things. Makes my skin crawl. He didn't used to be like that - trust me, he was somewhat ackward, but, an animal when we were dating.

I don't know what it is with him that he can't acknowledge that I've said something or takes so long to answer. It drives me crazy. I don't respect him. I can't just say something and have it responded to. I either get no response, an innappropirate response, or, what? or , what do you mean? He is driving me insane (not literally - but maybe a little). 

I am not seeing much of a future with a man that I can't have satisfying conversation with!

anyway, I feel for ya. I know what you are feeling


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## mitkit46

and, yes it does make you want to go out and have an affair, for anyone who doesn't understand that.

Sometimes you just want to be around someone pleasant and have the feelings that you used to have. (i'm speaking for myself, of course).


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## amorebeautifulquestion

Everyone is entitled to at least a little happiness and sexual satisfaction within a marriage. Ideally, a couple should strive for a love life that both would define as satisfying. Sexual pleasure is a simple joy of life and one certainly realizes this more when it is absent.

My question is this: Does the pledge of monogamy signify a responsibility for both partners to provide mutual sexual satisfaction? Is it unethical for a frigid wife to demand that her husband remain faithful to her and vice versa? It is not always easy for a sexually indifferent spouse to “look the other way” and permit of sex outside of the marriage even if it is done with utmost discretion. Even if the unresponsive partner acknowledges their behavior is hypocritical, the all too human, green eyed monster of jealousy may easily overpower their sense of logic. Would anyone care to expand on this point?


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## Mdcl33

luckydogcafe said:


> between all of these bad moments, there were years of loving and caring and happy times. i felt blessed more times than not, but it was all the down times that seem to stand out more and become immovable. I don't know that there was a particular instance that changed my feelings. But perhaps that they weren't there from the beginning.
> 
> can you ask your wife if she was in love with you from the beginning? maybe she's going through what i am? maybe she's just not able to accept that as an option? it's not fun to realize that you don't or never did love the one you're married to.
> 
> 
> Hey luckydogcafe,
> Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it. In response, I can tell you that I have realized that marriage is a series of compromises (for better or worse). That is, I realize that I may not be the ideal person for my wife and, quite honestly, maybe she is not for me either. That is, we all see things in other people that we may like better than our spouses. However, we try to work with all those things. Sometimes, it gets irritating to us to try and "work" on things but all relationships require that unfortunately. It's just part of life.
> 
> I think in your situation you may have some stronger feelings that you don't know what to do with. Maybe you can work some things out maybe some others you just can't. I tend to think that is the realization I have to come to with my situation. I think my wife "fell in love" with me as part of an image or even security/stability she was looking for at the time we met. She has enjoyed that for so many years that now she may want more. All of us always want more. It's human nature.
> 
> It does bother me that I am more of a stability factor and attraction to my wife rather than her idea of someone who turns her on or something like that. However, I suppose I am in the mode now that I will "take what I can get" and deal with the rest. Or, am I thinking this all wrong? Do I think I know what she is attracted to but maybe way off?
> 
> Question for you? Did you ever feel attracted to your husband? Or, was it always a compromise? I would be curious to know your answer so I can gauge my wife somehow. Thanks.


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## MarkTwain

Mdcl33 said:


> Question for you? Did you ever feel attracted to your husband? Or, was it always a compromise? I would be curious to know your answer so I can gauge my wife somehow. Thanks.


This seems a plausible approach, but it seldom works. The answers are within you. You already know why your wife is not hot for you. You're just resisting looking at it, or dealing with it..


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## Mdcl33

I wish I could say that I am resisting any acceptance of the situation. I understand how my wife's view of me has changed over the years. I almost just wish though that she would tell me what she wants. As a man, it is hard to accept that someone who was attracted to you once may not be as much as or at all. I don't even really know what I can do about any of this since I can sense what she does or does not feel. 

Is it normal for people just to accept this as a part of their marriage? How do you handle that?


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## luckydogcafe

A lot has been said since I last posted, so I'm not sure if I'll get to cover all the questions that have been posed. But, I will start by answering amore's question of my husband's fulfillment. It's a great question for sure. It's a hard one to answer though. I think any guy would like to get more sex. Even guys who get it several times a week want it more. So, since he only gets it a few times a year, I can safely say that he would like to get it more often. But, the thing with my husband is, that he seems okay with it. As long as I'm in his life, he deals with it the best he can. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. But it does make it easier on me. He's just not the type to demand it from me, and I know he wouldn't cheat on me. I've even offered for him to go get a prostitute if he'd just leave me alone, which he turned down. (i know...classy!!)

hopefully that answers that question.

But since I last posted, I've met with about 9 women from a group that I"m in. I'm not necessarily close to any of them, but hand picked them for their marriage experiences and what I perceived to be good/bad marriages.

We all got together at a friend's house. After the night was over I realized something pretty important. All of the women looked for certain things in their mate, like noticing whether they looked nice (after having spent an hour prepping for a party or something), straightening the house, even if not asked, changing diapers, really listening to them... etc. My husband does all of those things, except maybe the listening part. 

Then, when I complained about him, like not hearing when the kids are calling his name, not being involved in decisions with doctors or other house care type concerns (mortgages, furnace repair), not remembering what I said 5 minutes ago. They all said their husbands do that stuff too, and that it was just a guy thing.

SO, I decided that my husband has all the good things they were longing for...and all the bad things were things that all guys had anyway. Why the heck would I want to change husbands? The only single reason is of course the lack of attraction. I guess i will have to try to find ways to get around that, either through therapy or maybe medication? who knows.

i think there were times when i was attracted to him, but i remember always thinking things like, if he cut his hair or if he trimmed his bear, or if he this or that...it was like he was never totally hot to me, but I overlooked that. Overlooking that allowed us to have a great marriage for the most part, but as friends mostly. since now i seem to value the sex part more, overlooking it doesn't seem to be working. 

And all the women nearly died when they found out i had never had great sex. and, all the women are very attracted to their husbands, which helps them overlook the negative stuff.

so, is it possible to take this info and create a great marriage? does it need the sex to be great? what if i leave him and find out the attraction part isn't all it's cut out to be. perhaps I"m just too picky and no one would be good enough. that is scary.

i don't want to rock this boat unnecessarily. i'm going to seek out a sex therapist and a few other alternative type things to get to the bottom of my repulsion from him. thanks to all of you! you've been great!!


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## amorebeautifulquestion

Luckydog,

Thank you for the compliment and for answering the question. It helps paint a more complete picture. I am just as curious about any oral contraception that you might have used from the time you met your husband until now. There are medical studies that suggest birth control pills can reverse attraction preferences.

I am appreciative. Please realize that you are also helping others with your personal accounts and your candor.


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## sadhusband

Brutal is right. You stink back. Having an "open" marriage is a recipe for disaster. You might as well D. then. Sad that you are such a finger pointer and hate your husband so much that he is no longer a human being to you. Your crap smells just as bad lady... you are what every man fears and any man would be wise to stay far away from you... no man will want you with an attitude like yours. You WILL be 50/60/70 and a resentful old smelly grandma someday and regret looking back on your life for the hate, wasted lives, and horrors you have created.


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## martino

Nice one sadhusband! just what she needs. Luckydog sounds like you've made some nice realizations. Good luck!


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## amorebeautifulquestion

As Luckydog conveys what she considers to be her husband's lack of magnetism, she may sound harsh at times, but when has she ever indicated that she hates him? This is not a gender issue either. Plenty of husbands are turned off by their wives for various reasons. The bottom line for anyone who dares to sit in sanctimonious judgement of others is this: A marriage is nobody's business except the two people who comprise it. Luckydog's relationship with her spouse has no bearing on my marriage or anyone else's. I support freedom of expression on this forum by those with dissenting viewpoints. Even contributors who are overtly contemptuous should be allowed to voice their views so long as their editorializing does not maliciously malign another. They do not have a right however, to sabotage a forum topic for their own megalomaniacal jollies. Moral zealots should be granted their say but must live with the consequences of their opinions. I consider it a personal responsibility to defend any respectful and sincere forum contributer from the caustic arrogance of another. I hope the majority of my fellow contributors will do the same.


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## martino

Well put+++++


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## luckydogcafe

thanks guys....i'm not upset by sadhusbands comments. look at his user name, that says it all. I'm good with how i'm handling this situation, and that's all that matters.

amore...the answer to your birth control question: I've never been on oral contraceptives. so, i guess that isn't an issue. the ONLY meds i'm on actually are a natural hormone support for my thyroid. i've been on it for most of our marriage.

since posting my intial post a few days ago, things have improved in our relationship and i'm finding hope. without hope you have nothing, so at least i have that now. I just need to get to the bottom of the smell situation and a few other things we both need to work on, and we could very well end up with a perfect marriage. as perfect as is humanly possible anyway. that's all any of us on here are hoping for.

the only thing i can say i did different was be completely 100% honest with him every step of the way, even if it hurt. because that gave us the tools to work through it. and i truly love him as a human being. no, there aren't fireworks when i look at him, but don't those usually die out anyway? at least we have a foundation built on love and since we have children, we need to put more value into that. 

I won't be able to live forever with dh if I can't fix the attraction thing, but our future is worth digging deep to find out if it's repairable.


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## TNgirl232

(I know i'm a little late on this one  but had some insight)

As for not feeling guilty about the affair - (speaking from personal experience) - its because you don't care that it might hurt him. In your mind you've tried everything you can think of to work on the issues in the marriage and your done. Been there. I didn't feel guilty in the least at the end of mine - and that is a HUGE red flag. You know when I felt guilty - 3 months before my 2nd wedding to my now husband. I couldn't deal with hiding that from him because I LOVED him. Hopefully you can see the difference. I'm not saying where you are is easy and if you want to try to work it out go for it! But don't stay for the kids (they always know when things aren't right with mom and dad) you BOTH deserve relationships that meet both of your needs.


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## amorebeautifulquestion

Please let me take a moment to thank everyone for the candid contributions. I am really enjoying this forum. To respond to the last post:

One could argue right or wrong but there are different reasons why people have sex outside of a marriage. There are no easy or universal answers. I am not condoning or condemning, just observing. In luckydog's case there was a loss of attraction. People marry for different reasons as well. This may not apply to this particular forum post but please allow me to express it anyway. One can find someone who will give them a satisfying sexual relationship. They can also find someone who will stay with them. They may find someone who is even willing to marry them. But finding someone who really loves them is altogether different. Love is not found on every street corner. Sex is often a substitute for intimacy. Most people never entertain the thought that the opposite may also be true. When a person receives the intimacy they need it is possible they may require less sex.


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## malone

i also had an affair with no guilt. and you are right, it isn't as much about the other person but what you are not getting at home. an emotional affair is far more dangerous - believe me. We are trying to pick up the pieces without him knowing the whole truth... noone should ever judge other people - my mom keeps telling me noone goes to your home with you at night and lives in your marriage but you. For me, the affair (very short) was the breakdown to know I could not continue in this marriage - It made me see what a miserable place I was in.


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## luckydogcafe

I'm reading a book called "Broken Open" by elizabeth lesser. I can't believe how spot on it is with my life. it's as though I wrote it. I think I was meant to read it, actually.

But, it's a book about how difficult times can help us grow. Maybe there are others of you who could benefit from this book too. 

I'm looking forward to seeing what else it says. I'm always fascinated with how the "universe" speaks to me.


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## MarkTwain

luckydogcafe-

right at the beginning, or at any other time, did you ever have days of being intensely attracted to your husband?


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## luckydogcafe

hi marktwain!

i honestly can't remember a time in the beginning but it's been about 14 years. my memory isn't as good anymore.

the only time i remember being "insatiable" was during my 2nd trimester with ds number 2. i really don't think I was ever intensely attracted to him. sorry i'm not more help.


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## MarkTwain

luckydogcafe said:


> since posting my intial post a few days ago, things have improved in our relationship and i'm finding hope. without hope you have nothing, so at least i have that now.


Well that's a good sign anyway.

Having read all your posts, I feel unable to share my true feelings as they might shock you. However my viewpoint is irrelevant. By your own admission, you would not be able to tolerate an alpha male for very long, so you may as well work on the male you already have.

Role-play can work quite well for adventurous couples where one wishes the other had different attributes. Perhaps your husband deserves a lucky break - he certainly won't ask for one by himself if what you say is true.

Good luck.


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## luckydogcafe

MT....I'm disappointed. Your posts were the most helpful so far. Is there a way you could contact me privately as opposed to this forum, or do you just not think I would deal well with your advice? 

I am still very open to suggestions and really don't see how I'd be upset.

I've neve been with an alpha male, but a friend of mine said alphas don't do well with alphas, so I just assumed. But, obviously I'm very drawn to alpha males. I just figured it was opposites attract kind of thing.

Also, since my girls night out where we met and talked about how bad our husbands were )) I initially felt relieved and optimistic about my marriage, but slowly, inevitably, old feelings are creeping back and I'm starting to get that sick to my stomach feeling again. 

We even looked at homes yesterday and it just felt strange and scary to think about buying a larger home in case something happens to our marriage after all.

so, even though my husband is "better" so to speak than a lot of guys, it seems it's not quite enough for me.

THe book i'm reading, Broken Open, is helping me too. It makes me feel like there's an explanation for what's going on, and is helping me see past my self. One sentence from it that clearly states a fear I've had is this "I had been in a state of indecision about my marriage for so long that my ability to move in either direction had atrophied." And this one: "No problem can be solved from the same consciousness that created it." -albert einstein

both of those sentences fit my situation, and the way i've talked with so many people over the last year definitely has me feeling atrophied. It's like I've thought SO much about all of this that I can't understand my own words anymore...or worse, my own heart. So, reading this book is starting to clarify a bit more for me.

Anyway, that was a long reply to your post, but I just want you to know I'm open to whatever you suggest. It's not like I have to do what you say, right? 

Or maybe this is part of your plan? get me so interested in it that I'll do it?  

Either way, mark, I appreciate all of your help thus far! Thank you...


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## MarkTwain

luckydogcafe said:


> MT....I'm disappointed. Your posts were the most helpful so far. Is there a way you could contact me privately as opposed to this forum, or do you just not think I would deal well with your advice?


If you go to the link in my signature you can reach me via the ASK MT section.


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## overitnolove

Hi Luckydogcafe,

I read every thread in your post because your relationship is exactly like mine although we have only been married 2 and a bit years and habe no children.

I obsess about what to do. I have been on this site before (hi Mark Twain) and even separated from my husband for two months over Christmas.

Thing is, it is scary the thought of not having them in your life because you CARE


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## overitnolove

OOps.

... Because you care for them so much.

When I separated from my h, I was an emotional mess. and there definitely isn't LOVE there, but affection. Sex is rarely spontaneous and freely given, but I am good at pretending, and even just a few weeks ago, I said that 'you know when you said "I have to figure out if it is me making you sad"' and he said "what did you come up with?"

I said that I realise I dont love him in the same way or as much as he loves me.

And then he said a thing that startled me and strangely made things good for a few weeks.

He said that he has been in relationships where he las loved more than the other person has, and the other way around, andthe fact that he loves me more than I love him, is OK with him?????

It flawed me. Like he knows, and doesn't mind, because he likes having me in his life.

Bizzarely, I was OK with that for a few seeks as I said, and it actually answered or nullified things in my mind for a few weeks but the feelings of, THIS IS NOT RIGHT AND I AM MARRIED TO A MAN I AM NOT ATTRACTED TO OR COMPATIBLE WITH came back.

I also remembered sexual abuse which answered a lot of questions for me initially as well, but it probablly only answerd why I married a man who I wasn't right for KNOWINGLY...Being scared to walk down the aisle, saying in the car on the way to the wedding 'this is not right this is not right'.

WTF? I can't beive I am where I am because after time, you fight and work for the relationship and end up confused as hell.

I know this is your thread, but if you were 31 with no kids in the same situation, what would you do?


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## MsLady

luckydogcafe:

You are overthinking this. I know because I've been there, but I'm seeing with more clarity now.

You married the man because he's a nice guy, and you could see that he would be a good friend, stable partner, a good dad and a good provider. 

You were not in love with him nor attracted to him. You will never be. 

It really is that simple. You want to force yourself to fall in love with a specific person (your husband), but if there were a pill or substance to do that, you betcha it would be on the market.

You don't love him. You are not attracted to him. Why? Well, you could spend the rest of your lives analyzing why you don't love this good man. But, you'd be wasting your time. You just don't. There's no answer. Love is the most written about topic throughout history precisely because it is so mysterious and illogical. Knowing WHY you don't love him, won't help you know HOW to fall in love with him. And often our first instinct is to think of ways the other person would need to change in order for us to love them or feel attracted to them, but that's not fair to them and it's a futile battle to fight. 

Your husband has done nothing wrong ... well, he's probably done all the normal wrong things that most people do in their marriage, but nothing so wrong that would cause you to leave him, so anything focusing on what's wrong with him is really just a diversion from the real issue. Even his smell is fine. You don't like it, but another woman would. It's his natural smell. He can't change that or feel ashamed of how he smells. The only thing you've done wrong is to marry him ... but you were young and confused and hindsight is 20/20 and no point with those kinds of regrets. You've probably been a good wife within the limitations of your passion (lack thereof) for him and he's obviously been satisfied enough.

The one thing that does stand out is how insanely passive he is. If my partner were sniffing me up and down to figure out why my smell repulses him; or talking to everyone we know to find out why he can't love me, I would be horrified. Any man that has zero complaints about his wife (well, I guess he does think you're just too cold to please in bed), is a man that is too chicken to really take a hard look around him. I can see why he's unattractive to you. He's not only not alpha male, but he's shockingly passive. Sadly, sometimes that's what makes the guy "nice". But "nice" isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Your theory about alphas not being able to be together is as bad as the theory about "marry your friend and the love will follow". Chug it, it's not correct. You might get out there and find another guy that's not as "nice" as this one, but that makes you tingle all day long. And that tingle will be plenty to keep you happy for the rest of your days. Having our own personal doormats makes life easy, but it's hard to respect a doormat and it's hard to have good sex with a doormat.

I think we are so afraid of being hurt (by some imaginary bad man) that we give up our chances to be happy (by settling for the safe guy). Your safe guy won't change. He is who he is and it's sad that he's willing to be such a doormat that he would stay in this marriage, just because he needs you around that badly (sounds co-dependent too). But you don't have to buy into his willingness to settle (btw, he's settling too ... he's settling in a worse way than you b/c at least you are loved and perceived as attractive in your relationship, but he is settling for crumbs. Sidenote: he might have such low self-esteem - either he came that way or has become that way after years of being unloved in his marriage - that he's too afraid to be alone, believing himself to be too inadequate for anyone to love or too inept to please a woman. So his desire to keep you may stem from love or it may stem from fear as well).

It will never feel good to plan a divorce. It is heart-wrenching even for people that hate their spouse. So, given that you love your friend (meaning your husband), it WILL hurt. Just because you imagine pain in leaving him doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do. What is not normal to feel is misery when you imagine staying with your spouse. That's a big red flag.

If you plan to stay married, my advice is get thee to a sex therapist ASAP. Communication is good, but all those honest conversations that you are having can only be destroying his soul little by little and eroding any chance that he'll ever regain enough self-esteem to become even a little bit attractive to you. So, stop openly sniffing him and talking to his friends and family, and go see someone that can help you figure out how to go about this exploration in a way that leaves you both some dignity.

As for your child ... who asked him what he would feel if daddy weren't around? That's not a question anyone should ask a six year old and sounds like one or both of you were baiting him. Kids are swift and he probably knew he was being asked to choose sides. It's normal for six years to have a preference for one parent or the other at various times (or long times for some). Your interpretation that your husband must be so inept that even your 6 year old can tell is worrisome. If he's picking up on anything, it's probably the disrespect that you have for your husband. I know you don't think you show it, but believe me, the dynamic between you and your husband does not go unnoticed among the children. Do try to work on this in counseling as you could both be jeopardizing the children's relationship with their parents (or just dad) by not shifting things around.


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## LOVETAKESWORK

luckydogcafe: I read your posts. How very saddened I am by your situation and by your choice to have an intimate time with someone other than your husband, sadly this is creating a number of problems for you and will until you come to terms with what you did, you will not be able to truly forgive yourself. Until you truly realize the damage you have done to your relationship, your husband and yourself you will not even begin to realize how something like this can affect the way you think about yourself, your husband and others. Character is so important to a successful life and a good character is built on good choices with honesty being at the top of the list. Don’t kid yourself into believing it was ok, or there is any reason out there to justify it no matter what anyone tells you. I read through most of the posts and sadly most of them can be filed in the proverbial wastebasket. Other than marina72 and Mark Twain who seem to be realistic and level headed with most of their posts, unfortunately many of the dear people here are posting out of their brokenness, hopelessness and failures. Now please don’t misunderstand me, I have not posted here to judge you, mistakes happen, you made a mistake, accept it as such, understand it and work through it, but don’t live in denial. Now in reference to your marriage and the feeling you have towards your husband. Please understand physical attraction, chemistry, all good stuff, but this is not love, good sex does not equal a good marriage, a healthy sex life is an important element to marriage. Sex in the context of marriage can be a wonderful way to express how deep one feels for the other in marriage, but it must be viewed in a healthy perspective flowing out of mature love, not infatuation which so many young couples and dear relationally immature people confuse for love. Love at its core is a choice. Love has far more to do with the other than oneself. Most of what people confuse love for has far more to do with them than their spouse. It doesn’t stop their sadly, many people have shallow relationships with friends, family even their older and adult children because their relationships have far more to do with self gratification then selflessness. True love on all accounts flows out of a heart of selflessness. Now I can hear the moans and gawking at this thought, but really people look at yourselves your lives are empty, your marriages are on the rocks, you really don’t have the respect of your peers or friends and you have no purpose in your life because “its all about you”. Your entire lives are built around you. Now Lucky, I think it was great that you had a girls night, this is good stuff meeting with peers, I recommend doing it 1-3 a month if you can, you need and deserve this type of mental break, especially with small children to raise, I also recommend getting a mentor, I have found no one thing more effective in the lives of individuals and marriages then to have a mentor or two. What this means for you is an older woman preferable married more than 20 years with a proven track record, a woman of compassion and purpose that would genuinely care for your welfare but be wise enough to provide you with solid advice for your long-term success, not advice you want to hear or biased advice, which most people can get in abundance from co-workers, friends, and family. Some very good places to find mentors are usually through your place of worship, or a local charity you may serve, or family organizations like scouts, youth sports or PTA. If you don’t belong to any of these, I recommend visiting a place of worship, volunteering at your local Girl Scouts, YMCA, Boys or Girls Club, woman’s shelter, or Girls Inc. organization. You will find woman of purpose at all these organizations investing their time into the welfare of others. I would also like to recommend a couple of authors who have proven themselves as true experts on the subject of love, marriage and relationships: Dr. Garry Smalley, Gary Chapman, Dr. Kevin Leman, although they have several best sellers allow me to make some recommendations; “The Five Love Languages” by Gary Chapman, “Turning Up The Heat” by Dr. Kevin Leman, and “For Better or Best” by Dr. Gary Smalley. Dear one, you have not even begun to scratch the surface of love, marriage or even motherhood at your stage, your best years are ahead of you if your patient, choose wisely your next decisions and don’t give up hope. Wish you much success!


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## DangMe

I have gone through this same situation of being repulsed by my husband. It is as if every little thing they say or do makes you want to rip their eyes out. It is hard to get over but it can be done. Sex can be a HUGE part of a relationship and unfortunately CAN make or break it especially if there is someone else willing to give you what the relationship is missing. If you really want to save this marriage and get past this it can be done. It sounds like he has not been very active in trying to fix the whole sex issue but really is a good man in so many other ways. It is not easy but you have to try to beat it mentally. Let's face it, our mind can sometimes be our own worst enemy. Next time you get intimate with your husband, try to not concentrate so much on how his touch feels but let your mind wander with all the good thoughts you have of him. Fill your thoughts with his ability to provide and be a hard working man. In this day and age, a strong provider can be a huge turn on. Instead of longing for a take charge controlling man, try to enjoy his softness and gentleness instead. Try to focus on how much love he has for his family, and not the lack of love you have for him. What I am basically trying to say is work with what you have. Make the best of it for yourself instead of telling yourself that you are just there to please him. If this technique doesnt work, try a different approach. If you feel like a hooker, then you might as well act like one! You can completely role play in your own mind and make him your little boy toy. It can be very satisfying to know that you are in charge and can make a man melt like butter. Also if you are angered by the way he performs, then take control and give him grudge sex he will never forget. It can be very satisfying on both ends. :smthumbup: Have you ever thought that maybe he lets you be in control because he doesn't want to hurt you as he has done in the past? What he is doing may be way better than a man who has sex with you regardless of how much pain you are in. Just remind yourself that every mate comes with their own set of issues and there is probably something about your friend that you would find repulsive. You are just unaware of it right now. Good luck!


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