# caught him again



## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Well, biding my time for proof proved me well, I was able to log onto at&t finally and see texting history, texting the last EA quite frequently, I called and confronted, told him that he will have his bags packed for him when he gets home. I told him he can stay at his sisters until he can file or he is 100% committed to ceasing all contact in FRONT of me, and completely committed to working on our marriage. I am done, I love this man, but I won't allow this anymore. Whatever, I am done, he needs to make the first move this time. I am going to tell my children that daddy is still talking to this woman, regardless of the context of the messages, and I am going to leave it up to him if they want to see him. I have most of his clothes packed, and his laptop packed just need to get around to getting his toiletries in order....he can call his sister and tell her why he has to go over there again. I was willing to give him his time to get himself fixed, but to find out this whole time he was lying on contact. No more, buck stops here.


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## fatiguedfatherof4 (Apr 28, 2011)

Make sure you hold fast to that.... he's definitely gonna test it to see if you'll take him back or give him ANOTHER "another" chance.
May I ask how old are your children?


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

I'm sorry he's doing that. Take care of yourself and those kids. I hope he comes around.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

^ I like those.

Sorry to hear you found out he was lying, Para. 

You must stick firmly to your boundary. I am here for you if you need anything.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

My kids are 13 12 and 6, the eldest know everything that happened, my son asked why I am packing daddy's things, I said he is talking to a bad person again. I will be telling my daughters when they get home. 

I have my line drawn, I told him point blank her or me, he is to go to his sisters until he can file or commit 100% to our marriage and adhere to the conditions which means no contact and do NC in my presence. I won't be the one to file, doesn't matter if they are just "friendly" texts, it went romantic last time. Bull****. I am done, if he is willing to come home and adhere to transparency, being accountable, etc., full blown marriage counseling, etc, then I would be willing to give him one last chance. For now, I will not contact him, I will have his things on the porch, I will not speak to him about it. Tricky thing is that we are supposed to have "scheduled" talks as instructed by our counseler, I won't participate in those, because it was all bull****. If he's not willing to commit to our marriage all the way then I guess it's over. I was willing to give him time here at home to get his head back on straight, but that's when I stupidly believed him that there was NC. It amazes me at how much easier it is this time. I just want to dump his **** in the back of his pickup at work and have his coworkers wonder why the hell I am doing it.

I chose to believe, but kept the fact that she might spring up again in the back of my mind, and was preparing myself for the worst, I kind of had sneaking suspicions. I was just biding my time to see if he was truthful and/or giving himself enough rope to hang himself. I just wonder why it didn't show up on our alltel.com, she must have switched companies. I contacted her and SHE threatened to turn me over to the cops, I wasn't threatening at all LOL!!! Whatever, she can have him, she is just as lying, duplicitous, and conniving as he is. This is NOT the man that I am married to. No wonder he didn't have loving feelings to me, he was too busy texting pig face troll.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

What did he say to you when you told he can leave?


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I don't know, I hung up on him LOL, afterwards I txted saying I am giving you one last chance me or her, and I said I hope she's worth it. He txted back can't talk way busy. Whatever, but he can text with the *****, fine. She can have him, if I am worth losing over him feeling he has this "right" to talk to her, then whatever. Someone told me recently on here she should go on Fugly.com hahaha.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Have an intermediary set up that you use for any communication about the children. Go dark , set your terms, if he agrees he stays away and evidences full NC verified by a polygraph. Any MC is a waste of time until the affair is dead and buried. Best wishes , be cold and calculating with him, do not waver.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> Any MC is a waste of time until the affair is dead and buried.


Agreed. 

Stop telling him you'll give him another chance. You need to convey that you're not going to tolerate this BS any longer.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

paramore said:


> I don't know, I hung up on him LOL, afterwards I txted saying I am giving you one last chance me or her, and I said I hope she's worth it. *He txted back can't talk way busy. * Whatever, but he can text with the *****, fine. She can have him, if I am worth losing over him feeling he has this "right" to talk to her, then whatever. Someone told me recently on here she should go on Fugly.com hahaha.


I choose you = 12 buttons pushed on phone
Can't talk way busy = 19 buttons pushed on phone

You have your answer. He's trying to play it cool, like it means nothing so you'll beg him back. I agree with NC. It's the only way he's going to get it. He needs to know what life will be like without you in it.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I don't plan on it, I gave him a chance when he supposedly ended it in mid March. I believed him, we had gone to a couple of MC sessions. I can't let him do this to me anymore. I asked him how can you do this to me again? I asked why did you lie to me, he said, it's hard to tell you stuff like this J, I was like WTF!!!!!! That's when I said I will have your things packed for you when you get home. Thing is that I believed it was, but here recently he said he doesn't have loving feelings for me, well no ****ing wonder sherlock!!! He had been loving and stuff, I don't know how long they have been going at this again, I don't know if it ever even stopped. I asked him if he said I love you to her, he said, no it's all bull**** stuff, well homie that's what you said last time. I don't believe a goddamn word that comes out of his mouth. I can't go to counseling right now because he keeps forgetting to get me and the kids on his main jobs insurance.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

That text was sent just shortly after I confronted him, after the text he sent me I responded with this, not too busy for her no wonder there's no loving feelings giving her the attention that I should be getting whatever I guess you have a choice, I'm not the one who did bad. Here I am the fool who chose to try and trust you. You swore up and down there was no contact. This one is on you. You were so convincing last night saying how sorry you were when this whole time you were doing whatever with her. I have given you a choice, it's up to you who is more important. You said I deserved honesty. I see how well that is doing for ya. I am not begging, me or her, that's it i don't care if it's just friends look what happened last time. I didn't stand a chance.

This is taken straight off of my phone, and will be the last contact I have unless he initiates, and that is the gospel truth.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

paramore said:


> I can't go to counseling right now because he keeps forgetting to get me and the kids on his main jobs insurance.


If you go to church, try your pastor. A friend of mine set me up with a pastor at a church that I can see out of my office window. He is also a counsellor. I have had a couple of visits with him and several phone calls. There is no charge.

I also had been holding off on counselling because of funding. This guy is awesome and it's free. You might want to check that out.


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## Forsaken (Feb 14, 2011)

It sucks that you're in this position but I'm glad you were able to find out because he could have come around eventually saying it was all over when really he was hiding it behind his back even longer. So better now then anytime in the future. He has shown his true colors. You did your best and it's quite apparent that he isn't good enough for you. Settle for nothing but the best, you deserve nothing but the best and this prick ain't it.

Don't forget to change the locks!


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## fatiguedfatherof4 (Apr 28, 2011)

How does a man "forget" to put his wife and children on his insurance? 
That is a hard one to understand.


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## fatiguedfatherof4 (Apr 28, 2011)

paramore said:


> This is taken straight off of my phone, and will be the last contact I have unless he initiates, and that is the gospel truth.


Not even if he calls.... stall him out a little! This is all the same as I would tell my own daughter.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

no insurance because of recent job change...and yeah I know. You know, this ISN'T the man I am married to, a ****ing parasite has taken to his body and won't let go. He takes steps forward and takes a million steps back. He was home for two and half months, time to get used to sleeping alone again.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

paramore said:


> duplicitous


Good word!. I had to look up the definition. I learned something! I have to use it in a sentence 3 times today. That should be tough.

Oh... and I'm very sorry for your pain. I'll pray for strength for you.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Thanks Pit...I am gonna need it, I hope he can see the light...if not I guess he can sit and wallow in his little hole and text all he wants with that little *****. He is going to lose a wonderful wife, and face his children knowing that he is the cause of our family's demise.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

You must not talk to him, Plan B, if you are not sure what it is search the MBuilders site, go dark, no direct conversations, no text messages. Get an intermediary pronto someone who is your friend and who will filter out his communications.

Protect yourself and make this a legal separation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

I'm sorry Paramore  Call me if you need to.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I will in a bit apple


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Paramore: consider this a war and you are going to fight to win, get a badass lawyer and hit your husband where it hurts most , his finances , his pride and shame him. Be prepare to haul the OW to court as the primary in adultry , make their lives hell.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

unfortunately, the proof I had from before got accidentally deleted by myself back at the beginning of March. I cannot afford a lawyer at this time, I swore to myself I won't be the one to end it, I won't allow myself to be seen as the "bad one" that walked away. I will stand fast to the NC until he sees the light. I have to finish packing his clothes, I am just moving slow because I am not feeling so well today on top of it all LOL.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Hang in there, breathe ,have a warm bath and let your mind rest awhile. It's been a traumatic day give yourself sometime to clear your thoughts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Start researching a valid polygraph company. Have the number handy, printed out on a piece of paper - make a bunch of copies. 

If he ever tries to engage you in conversation again, simply hand him the slip of paper and say 'When you're ready for your polygraph, call this number, and let me know. IF you pass it, I may consider talking to you again.'

Nothing else.

Do you have an intermediary set up yet?

Are his clothes outside the house? Make sure they are.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

They are packed up by the front door right now, as I said I am moving slow, not feeling the greatest. I am trying to figure out who a good intermediary would be, I have to separate his dirty clothes from ours LOL, I will see what happens when he comes to get his things LOL, should be interesting, we'll see if he tries to talk to me, he's got another thing something. He can say goodbye to his children, and I will decide when he sees them, perhaps sometime next weekend, as he works all week. We don't have legal separation in this state.


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## Tempted6119 (Apr 29, 2011)

paramore, I am soooo sorry!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

me too. God this is gonna be hard, I really didn't want to go through this crap yet again, not nearly as bad as I was a couple months ago.


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## Tempted6119 (Apr 29, 2011)

paramore said:


> me too. God this is gonna be hard, I really didn't want to go through this crap yet again, not nearly as bad as I was a couple months ago.


You are a STRONG woman. I know you can handle whatever comes your way. Not to say you'll welcome it with open arms, I wouldn't either. But I know you'll survive this. 
I wish I could spare you this pain. It really makes me sad. 
(((HUGS)))


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Thanks...I know I will be ok, I wish it could be with him, but that's just not possible at this point and time, if ever. I hope he can face his children.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I just wanted his stuff outside because, if he has to go in and out to get his stuff out, you're giving him too many opportunities to try to swing it his way.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

it will be there, I came across another number, turns out it is a girl he works it with at the gasstation, no reason to be texting each allll day long on Saturday, I called her and asked her to stop texting my husband unless it was work related, as we are having marital troubles and it makes me uncomfortable, we shall see, I think that could have turned into one.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

He said he will pick his things up in the morning, doors will be locked and stuff out with the stinky dog, including his laptop, hopefully puppy won't lay on it, he's like 120 lbs.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

and he just txted me a new number, his att line is still on, he went and bought a straighttalk phone....now THAT is classy.


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## uhaul4mybaggage (Jul 20, 2010)

Para--
First, I'm sorry. This really sux. 
Second, I know you don't want to be the one to start proceedings for divorce. I can see why, and I was there. I think now I would have been better off if I had taken the bull by the horns. His actions (your H's and mine) were the catalyst that doomed the marriage. You and I can't control them, and you don't have to get taken for a ride like I did (am) unless you choose to. I want to see you come out on top. So, once it is clear to you that divorce is inevitable, (if it isn't already,) don't beat yourself up if you need to go to the lawyer first so that you know the kids are spoken for appropriately and you are not going to be lied to AGAIN. (this time about finances/how the divorce is going to go.) At least, be getting names from your friends of attorneys with good reputations, or maybe be setting up an appt with a state lawyer if you qualify. Prepare yourself for his behavior to get worse, and to start affecting other things you thought were "safe," like the kids. Also, talk to the school counselor about how to address this with your 6 year old so she isn't as hurt. Best of luck to you.


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

Be strong now girlfriend... You have to be strong.


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## Powerbane (Nov 8, 2010)

You might want to Check with his job directly. Sometimes exceptions can be made and enrollment opened back up. It's probably a long shot but still something to check out. 

Regardless - he's still responsible for paying healthcare. I'm sure judge will not look favorably on him at all. 

Not sure if you work or not but if you do - check to see if can enroll right away. 

Stay strong Paramore - some guys can be jerks and not realize it. I know - I was one myself. (Jerk - I mean!!)

God bless and take care of yourself!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Just wondering if there is any chance for us at all. I know I did the right thing, I just wonder how long it would have gone if I hadn't stumbled across it. No wonder he didn't have "loving feelings" for me. I am just so hurt right now, basically said he guesses we are done. How when he didn't keep up his side of our agreement. Me giving him time to get his head on straight, no contact, and counseling. I am so angry, how the hell does he justify me "spying" on him? I did it so I could prove to myself wrong, to build faith in him.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Now I am full of whys? Why can't he love me, why did he start up again with her, why am I not worth it to him, why am I not worth fighting for for him, even though I know I'm worth it. Why am I not good enough for him, why am I not worth giving a second chance for? I laid in bed and I missed him so much! The last time we were intimate was a few nights ago, and I am in tears thinking that was the last time with the man I love so much. I was ok most of the day, but it's really hitting me now.


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## reindeer (Mar 24, 2011)

Paramore I am so sorry for how you are feeling. I can identify with that feeling knowing you won't be in someones arms again in that way.

Three days before I gave my husband a choice of working on our marriage or leaving he woke me up in the night, to make love. It started nice, but just did not feel comfortable, as we had hardly cuddled for about 10 days before that. I stopped him, and he seemed relieved. 

Stupidly I wonder if that had been good would it have changed anything, but in relity that is a thin thread to latch on to. Especially when sex had never been the problem.

Hope you get through the coming days. you have replied to my posts previously, I feel you are a strong woman, and you don't deseve to be treated in this way, so believe it and act upon it. Take care.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I just wonder if it's really really over, I know I will be ok, just heartbroken over his betrayal yet again, when just the night before he was talking about being perfectly honest and saying how he was sorry for hurting me with tears in his eyes, I felt he was truly starting to feel remorse, but he was texting with her on the side.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Day 1 I guess, I know it says in the 180 to believe only 50% of what you hear and they will talk in absolute negatives, but it's so hard to follow that rule, he is supposed to come get his things this morning. I wonder if he will. I just wonder if what he says is true. I know I am being gaslit. To him I am spying, for me I was just trying to build the faith that had been shattered for the billionth time. He was lying to me and telling me something else. I won't waver but I am feeling very weak right now. I have been through getting shattered 4 or 5 times now in the last 5 6 months, how much can 1 person take without completely losing it?


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## TwyztedChyck (Sep 11, 2010)

Reading your posts is heartbreaking. I well remember the raw pain of betrayal. I don't have any specific advice, you seem to be doing everything right. Just wanted to say hang in there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wrench (Mar 21, 2011)

I think you're acting very normal today, and you will feel as strong as yesterday soon. Wanting him to love you again and return to his family is a normal thing to want, that's why it's hard to fight off.

He's the one acting irregular, don't let him play you. 

(sorry for your loss)


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

((((hugs Paramore)))) I know your pain. You just want them to stand up and say "I'm sorry, I was wrong. I love you." We think that will make everything better. Go back and read the thread "Just let them go" I cant think of who started it off the top of my head, but I read that thread often, especially when I feel weak. In fact, I've printed it off and keep it with me. Read the initial post and absorb it like a sponge. I know how hard this is right now.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

told me this morning, after I asked how long it had been going on, he said awhile, but there had been a break in between, and he doesn't remember who started it. Told me that he couldn't handle to the pressure of being "spied on" which I had backed off on, I was getting better. Couldn't handle me expressing my feelings, I was guilty of here and there bringing up stuff beyond our "scheduled talks" but I had gotten so much better about that, he doesn't seem to realize that these behaviors take time to modify, especially when I am a person who needs to get it out in the open, or I forget. Said he isn't necessarily in love with her, whatever I guess. Told him that I love him and i will be here when he wants to come home, now we'll see if he does.....now no more contact. I mean it this time.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

ok I did just text him this will you please speak with (sister) about being a mediary when it comes to the children to set up times that are convenient as i wish to have no contact with you until you are ready to commit, it will have to be times that are convenient for the both of us and our scheduled talks are on the backburner for now as they have done zero good, thank you J


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

I know you keep saying "I love you" to him, hoping those three words will wake him up, but they wont. He is still in a fog. And has been for along time, those words mean nothing to him. Stop saying them to him! Make him make a move, the ball is in his court now, out of your hands. Start doing stuff for YOU! No more calling him, no more begging him, no more crying over his dumb a$$!!

Take your kids out to the park a lot, go for walks, meet often with other friends. Join a divorce/seperation support group (thats what I did) it's a lot like TAM but face to face lol. Find things that interest you! I'm helping serve a meal at the homelss shelter this week, as well as lots of other stuff. LIVE LIFE! and live it without him. Gaurenteed he will either come crawling back and begging (which he should do) because it will scare him that you are moving on! OR he may choose to go.. and if thats the case.. let him, you HAVE your own life!

Wish you lived just a little bit closer and I would drag your hiney out with me... four hour drive isn't too bad tho!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I said them for the last time this morning. I said to him I love you and i am here willing to work on the marriage when you want to come home, and I said I hope this is worth it. That is the last time he is going to hear it from me. I sent that text asking his sister to be a mediary and I meant it. I hope he doesn't choose to go, but I guess it is what it is, I realized that his deoderant and stuff is still here LOL I forgot to pack it, hey it's only 3 if you drive right.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

paramore said:


> ok I did just text him this will you please speak with (sister) about being a mediary when it comes to the children to set up times that are convenient as i wish to have no contact with you until you are ready to commit, it will have to be times that are convenient for the both of us and our scheduled talks are on the backburner for now as they have done zero good, thank you J


A big part of NC is showing that you can be in control. When you ask him to do things for you he feels needed. You should have set this up by yourself, but what's done is done. If he doesn't do it you should take responsibility. Don't tell him that you're going to do it or comment that he didn't do it. Once the details are worked out, contact him with the information in a business-like manner.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I figure if he wants to see his kids HE can do the legwork, that's what I figured.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

paramore said:


> I figure if he wants to see his kids HE can do the legwork, that's what I figured.


Suppose for a minute this ends in divorce. Wouldn't you want proof that you set up a way for him to gain access to the kids? You certainly wouldn't want him saying you denied him access. If he doesn't work this out with his sister you owe it to your children to lay out means for visitation. 

I understand where you're coming from in making him do the legwork. He should be the one to put forth the effort of rebuilding the relationship, but visitation is very different.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

this is true, I did try to text his sister, but I must have had the wrong number, and it was in his phone, I think I can look it up on the website.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

did you talk to him again?


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

not since I sent I sent him the text after he left from getting his things saying that he needs to talk to his sister about being a go between, and that I wanted NC. but then I took the advice from above and texted his sister myself, as husband does tend to forget these types of things. Really, is he gonna come out of the fog? It's fun and he enjoys himself at his sisters place. he has the freedom to talk to S all he chooses, this is really a lose/lose situation.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

paramore said:


> To him I am spying


That's just Cheater Talk. Ignore it.

The only words you ever need to hear from him again are:

"I'm sorry I put you through this. I hate myself for doing it. I'll do anything you want to prove I'm a changed man. Here's a postnup agreement giving you everything if I ever slip up again because I deserve to lose everything if I ever hurt you again. Schedule me a polygraph to prove it. Will you give me one more chance?"

Anything but that, keep walking.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

paramore said:


> I won't waver but I am feeling very weak right now. I have been through getting shattered 4 or 5 times now in the last 5 6 months, how much can 1 person take without completely losing it?


Let me gently point out that what you are describing here is not entirely his fault, ok? 

If you would have held on to your self respect and giving him VERY HIGH hoops to jump through before you accepted him back, you wouldn't have been shattered 4 or 5 times. Maybe twice, but never more than that, if you would have walked away.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

An intermediary is not his sister, it is a person who supports and protects you, history says waywards do not like IM's especially if they are forced into no contact. All mail and communication goes through the IM they filter out the content and enforce the guidelines. 

Change your locks, bar his number and sort your financials out, for your own protection make the separation legal, your husband is going to enjoy life and play slap as you have already told him you will take him back , you must not. Set boundaries with a high bar that the IM has a copy of. You stipulate that your children never meet the OW or her family. Do yourself a huge favour and buy "surviving an affair" by W Harley , the book gives you a template to work from.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

paramore said:


> told me this morning, after I asked how long it had been going on, he said awhile, but there had been a break in between, and he doesn't remember who started it. Told me that he couldn't handle to the pressure of being "spied on" which I had backed off on, I was getting better. Couldn't handle me expressing my feelings, I was guilty of here and there bringing up stuff beyond our "scheduled talks" but I had gotten so much better about that, he doesn't seem to realize that these behaviors take time to modify, especially when I am a person who needs to get it out in the open, or I forget. Said he isn't necessarily in love with her, whatever I guess. *Told him that I love him and i will be here when he wants to come home,* now we'll see if he does.....now no more contact. I mean it this time.


 paramore, PLEASE take this back. NEVER say it again.

You just told him that all he has to do is bide his time, wait for you to get desperate and lonely, and he can just 'happen by' and he knows you'll beg him to come home. 

He knows it.

Because you keep doing it.

Man up. For your kids.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

paramore said:


> ok I did just text him this will you please speak with (sister) about being a mediary when it comes to the children to set up times that are convenient as i wish to have no contact with you until you are ready to commit, it will have to be times that are convenient for the both of us and *our scheduled talks are on the backburner for now* as they have done zero good, thank you J


 Again, PLEASE stop talking this way! He KNOWS you have no self respect and will take him back; all he has to do is be smarter about it next time.

By now, it's a game for him. Because he thinks you're dumb, gullible, and desperate.

Do you know what he needs to hear from you, if you EVER want to have hope of having a real husband again?

"I deserve better than you and I'm moving on. I can't believe I gave you so many chances and you screwed them all up. I feel sorry for you. And I'm filing for divorce tomorrow."

THAT might get him back. But only if you follow through.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

paramore said:


> this is true, I did try to text his sister, but I must have had the wrong number, and it was in his phone, I think I can look it up on the website.


 Don't you know how to call her?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> An intermediary is not his sister, it is a person who supports and protects you, history says waywards do not like IM's especially if they are forced into no contact. All mail and communication goes through the IM they filter out the content and enforce the guidelines.
> 
> Change your locks, bar his number and sort your financials out, for your own protection make the separation legal, your husband is going to enjoy life and play slap as you have already told him you will take him back , you must not. Set boundaries with a high bar that the IM has a copy of. You stipulate that your children never meet the OW or her family. Do yourself a huge favour and buy "surviving an affair" by W Harley , the book gives you a template to work from.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Exactly.

Read that book THIS WEEK and follow it to a T. It's the only possible way to save your marriage, and it will help you deal with your own issues, too.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

turnera said:


> Again, PLEASE stop talking this way! He KNOWS you have no self respect and will take him back; all he has to do is be smarter about it next time.
> 
> By now, it's a game for him. Because he thinks you're dumb, gullible, and desperate.
> 
> ...


Agreed. It's what I told Apple in the other thread. You ahve basically told him, I will still give you 5000 more chances to cheat on me and I'll always be here for you when *you're* ready. What about YOU Para?


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

Paramore, I am so sorry that this happened again.
keep your head up, Sweetheart, you are better than him. Don't let this destroy you. You did nothing wrong.
Hugs from all of us...


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

You are right Turnera, it wasn't all his fault I fell. I allowed it to happen. Right now, I am willing to wait it out till he pulls his head out. I have to decide how long, I am thinking about that, filing won't do anything right now, and we don't have the funds for any lawyers at all. I didn't call the sister because she is at work, I didn't realize what the intermediary was actually supposed to be, I just figured it was a go between. There has already been strict stipulations put into place, and I do believe he will adhere to them. 

I thought I had set my boundaries at the time pretty high, NC with either woman, but he went and did it anyways. He knows this now....that he is not to contact me until complete contact has been cut off, and prove it, he is willing to be transparent, he is willing to commit to the marriage 100%, and full on counseling. The space will be good. I was really wondering if it was a bad idea this last time he came home, as he wasn't willing to be transparent, he would ask me what I wanted, and I would tell him, wasn't willing to give it, this was bound to happen. If he wants a chance with me, HE is going to have to initiate it. For instance....on Saturday I am going to pull an apple, pull up and pay at the pump gas station, where I know he can see me, all gussied up with a girlfriend, and let him wonder where I am off to. If things DON'T work out, I have expressed there will still be no contact, except through the go between, because I had told him before if he ends it, he loses me completely even as a friend, he loses me forever, all polite communication can be done through someone else for the kids. He doesn't get to have me as a friend afterwards, no small talk, phone calls, etc. He loses me forever, and I know that's gonna hurt, because I know he did miss me those times he was gone. I do own that book, I will reread it.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I must say to above post, if I pull up at the gas station, I will pay at pump, I won't go in, he will just be able to see me through the window lol.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

paramore said:


> I must say to above post, if I pull up at the gas station, I will pay at pump, I won't go in, he will just be able to see me through the window lol.



You had mentioned buying clothes that show off your "assets". Park at an angle so that he gets the proper view of just how well your clothes show them off.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

teehee, I intend on it. I do believe he will pull his head out of orifice at some point, but what really matters is if I will be there when he comes around. I haven't decided on a time limit yet. You know what would be especially funny? If I got a hold of one of my male cousins that are good looking and had them at the gas station with me...and if it ever comes up, I was hanging out with my cousn ****, I would rather enjoy that.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

ha ha! the ow in my hub life works at a local fast food place. Ive thought about going to get a sandwich and just sit there....for hours, lol. Nothing else. Just sit there


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

you know what sucks? the feeling a fool after so blindly believing there had been no contact, it sucks, but I am doing surprisingly well, trying to find a local divorce/separation support group around here. For awhile now I had a gut feeling that this was a long time coming...just needed solid proof.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Don't feel bad, Para. It's par for the course in some situations. I didn't find out til a YEAR after the ONS he was still in touch with OW. Do you know how stupid I felt? I really believed he'd cut it off. I think back to him taking me overseas to celebrate our wedding anniv...he was in touch with her the entire time. Sick. 

Oh well. That will be on his conscience not mine.

You hae owned your half o the BS and wanted to work on your marriage. If he won't do the same, move on. You deserve better.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

paramore said:


> I haven't decided on a time limit yet.


You really need to read Surviving An Affair, or at least go to Marriage Builders (but not the forum! dangerous place there; trust me), and read up on Plan A/Plan B. Learn it. Understand the time limits they set up for YOUR protection.

If you don't 'know' your time limit, you are doomed to keep going round and round with him, him giving you just enough to keep you tied into him, so he can eat cake.

Please read up on it.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

yup....just a matter of how long, I am thinking long and hard if I actually set a time limit or wait until the day I wake up and say I am done, could be a month from now, 6 months from now, a week....not sure yet, it's all still fresh. Yup, I have the book beside me right now Turnera, gonna do some reading and some hard thinking.

There are several financial things that need to put in order before either one of us could file, which I am going to start working on just in case. I know our finances, I sure don't want to lose my hobby farm with my mini horses, my puppies......but there's no way I could live out here on our own, there's an almost $800 mort and $450 and second mort payment....and all of the utilities, the upkeep, we will see what the future brings. I love this place with all of my heart.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

paramore said:


> you know what sucks? the feeling a fool after so blindly believing there had been no contact, it sucks, but I am doing surprisingly well, trying to find a local divorce/separation support group around here. For awhile now I had a gut feeling that this was a long time coming...just needed solid proof.


 And this is why you will have ready the phone number for a polygraph company, that HE will call when/if he's ready to give up cheating, so you can verify it. 

This is why you will have a postnup agreement set up that HE will sign if he's serious, so that you get everything if you take him back and he cheats again.

If he won't do these two things, he's lying.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't think Plan A will be effective in Para's case. She has already done all of that. Plan B, IMO, is the only think that could work. 

But I do agree ...without aplan or time limit, Para will be waiting around for a long time stuck in limbo. He seems the tyupe to make her want to do all the dirty work. Won't commit but won't let her go either.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

well, it's not a matter of letting go....it's about him not being able to handle the consequences of his actions, I am holding myself responsible and accountable, and he won't. He can't handle the pressure of me "talking about things" all of the time. He as I was in a deep depression, and we both didn't make good decisions for a very long time. He was telling me up until yesterday he needed time to work himself to a place where he was making good decisions again. I had asked him last night if we are done, he said I guess, it can't work, we both know that. I answered back no, YOU think it can't work, I think it can. But whatever, I am letting go, not of my love, but him. I have to for my own sanity, and only pray he comes around before it's too late, I will do plan a in conjunction for myself.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

paramore said:


> well, it's not a matter of letting go....it's about him not being able to handle the consequences of his actions, I am holding myself responsible and accountable, and he won't. .



And that is his problem. Not yours. You work on you. If he can't work on him and acept his faults, then that is his issue. Do you see that? 



paramore said:


> I had asked him last night if we are done, he said I guess, it can't work, we both know that. I answered back no, YOU think it can't work, I think it can.


He does that because it make his decision to not want to save the marriage easier for him. So he pushes it partly on you. My ex did that too. He trie dto say the divorce was as much a choice as mine as it was his. Which it wasn't. But they do taht to justify to themselves this.

You know the truth. And the truth is he won't meet you halfway and isn't willing to work past everything to restore your marriage.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

yup I know all of that, reality bites. That's why I refused his comment We know it won't work, because I know it's a cop out.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

oh, and just to add for another level of entertainment, during our scheduled "talk" the other night, I asked him if it would bother him if I dated, (I am NOT going to) he said, "I'm sure it would bother me, but if that's something you needed to do...." grrrrr, this man is truly a piece of work right now. Can we say.......justification?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Yeah. They start saying that when they're checked out, usually. Or deeply in the fog, Either way they say it when they're not fully committed.

But I can bet you if you DID go out on a date, he would lose it. 

Funny. LOL.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

isn't being checked out and in the fog kind of the same thing? Can they be both? I think it would hurt him, at least a little, I am NOT gonna do it, but sometimes you wonder.....he wouldn't say anything either. I am not going to stoop to his level, he can have his little thing with that little troll, I can't stop him, but I have to move on.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It could be both.

But generally when someone is completely done, the fog isn't really teh problem anymore. They just want out.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

paramore said:


> he can have his little thing with that little troll,


You have called her a troll a few times. Pit called my wife's OM a leprechaun. Supposedly, he is available now. Maybe we could hook the two of them up. lol

I'm not trying to make light of your pain. Just trying to make you laugh. Laughter is good medicine.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

That's the thing he kept saying before yesterday he wasn't sure if he wanted out, some days yes and some days no, I am still thinking the fog. For instance a few weeks ago, we were laying in bed, he for no reason reached over and just held me for a long time. I have caught him looking at me several times with that old look he had there, I am pretty sure it's mostly the fog. For instance, when he ended it with her back in March, things were going alright, he would say I love you this and that, then the last couple of weeks all this crap came up. Such as I don't have loving feelings for you right now, I don't want to lead you on, I don't want to make it harder for both of us, and the secretive cell texting again, it's like DUH!!!! I am still leaning more towards fog. He was saying a month ago he was in love with me, now it's him saying the last week or two, I only said it back because I didn't want to hurt your feelings. Yeah, let's keep piling the cow **** into the pile baby.

Hurt, maybe we should hook pig face troll and leprechaun up LOL.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

paramore said:


> Hurt, maybe we should hook pig face troll and leprechaun up LOL.



I've got his number, address, DOB, etc. Only thing is that the troll would have to travel to CO to be with him. He is apparently unable to travel. lol


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

HurtinginTN said:


> You have called her a troll a few times. Pit called my wife's OM a leprechaun. Supposedly, he is available now. Maybe we could hook the two of them up. lol
> 
> I'm not trying to make light of your pain. Just trying to make you laugh. Laughter is good medicine.


Supposedly my hubs ow is still in love with her ex-boyfriend. I've thought about calling this ex boyfriend up and asking him out. How you like them apples, b*itch.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

THAT would be funny hehe.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

AppleDucklings said:


> Supposedly my hubs ow is still in love with her ex-boyfriend. I've thought about calling this ex boyfriend up and asking him out. How you like them apples, b*itch.


Two wrongs don't make a right, but that would be hilarious. She will get hers.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Apple, I would have called the boyfriend a LONG time ago. And told him she is having an affair with your H. He has a right to know. Do it. 

Then drop-kick your H in the face and tell him to leave.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I just wish he could see he's making this so much harder than this needs to be, it didn't have to be this way. His sister texted me this morning that I am expecting him to be honest while being dishonest to myself. Because I was able to see the texting online, I had heard that you could, but didn't know for sure until the switch over, DAMN right I was gonna check!!! I needed to get the reassurance I wasn't getting from him, and look what happened.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You're not letting go.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

His sister is full of sh!t. The only one being dishonest is him. 

You can't make him "see" anything, Para. He knows what he is doing is wrong. If it wasn't, he wouldn't be hiding it from you.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Oh I am letting go, you wouldn't believe the difference in me from last time, he's not constantly on my mind as before, there is a sense of relief of sorts. I am unfortunately one that very good at shutting myself off right away. I am just grieving some, just thinking about not seeing for months after so long together is really really sad. I will cry for a minute and then be fine. Before, I was a sobbing mess for days on end. I didn't even cry much last night, I actually got a little sleep, would have gotten more if my sister hadn't woken me up with a phone call at midnight lol.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What ELSE can you have to look forward to, besides A MAN?

Signing up for summer school, joining a tennis club or a bowling league, taking day trips all summer, reading a book a week, getting involved at church, taking up photography and starting your own website with your pictures...

Get the idea? 

One man isn't the sum worth of you.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Paramore...

I know this isn't the time or the place...but your strength and conviction is some sexy sh$t! Remember that when you are ready for dating again if it comes to that. Any guy would be lucky to have you by his side.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Thanks alpha, that means alot, I'll give ya my digits sometime LOL!!!!! Kidding...or am I HAHAH!!!!


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Lol!

Stay strong, girl! You can get through this! Both scenarios to this seem win win to me. Things get fixed. You are happy. Things don't...u move on...find peace and happiness!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

hope so, I want the best of both worlds, but we don't always get what we want do we. Now the more I think about it, I just want it to be over, and move on and not even give him a chance. He doesn't ****ing deserve me, it's pretty sad when awesome people on here can see what a good person I am, and I was right under his nose and couldn't even see it. Too busy playing victim, and now since he has his special little Straighttalk phone he can talk to her to his hearts desire and text her all he wants, I now wish I would have waited to confront him when he actually got home from work, so he would have had to face his children.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Now I am mad, I hope down the road soon, he misses me cuddled up to him, I hope he misses the sound of my voice, talking to me, touching me, and kissing me. I hope in whatever amount of time he feels the pain he is putting me through. I hope S does something incredibly stupid that makes him think twice, and be like wtf? I hope she starts acting the way she did when they were together in high school, I hope he realizes that she is more than likely the same person she was way back when, I have this confirmed by her ex husband. I hope he wakes up one day longing for me and what we could/could have had. Some part of me hopes he wakes up after I have given up and realizes that it's too late, and he can live with the regret for the rest of his life. I hope someday he feels the pain that he is putting me through right now, and has many a time. I hope he his gut wrenches with pain the way mine has for all these months, THAT my friends would be called just desserts.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

or better yet a month from now he realizes how ****ing stupid he is being pulls his head out of mother****ing ass and realizes that he is being a ****ing idiot, and that his behavior isn't helping anyone, and realizes he needs to stop, and really do stuff that is good for him, like working out, stopping smoking, working on communication with his wife, and STOP MOTHER****ING CHEATING!!!! LOL. I mean really isn't that kind of ranked up there with an hour of exercise daily? haha


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

paramore said:


> I now wish I would have waited to confront him when he actually got home from work, so he would have had to face his children.


It's probably best you didn't. We have had a few arguments that the kids have heard lately. It's probably best they were spared the confrontation. I know mine hate it.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Oh I would have confronted him upstairs away from the kids, and he would have to pack in front of them and face the humiliation, I would have made him sit down with them and tell them why he was leaving. I have had to deal with all of the questions, they won't open up to him and tell him how they feel. I think it would mean more coming from them than me.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

This is about the time he gets home from work, and I am a mess, it will get better in a few days....


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Paramore, if that is really your picture, you are one smoking hot lady and he definitely will regret losing you. Brains and beauty -- an unresistable combination and you will have no trouble finding someone who can show you the love and respect you deserve. If I wasn't reconciling.......


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

oh no it's not my picture, but apple and lily know what I look like, I am pretty. 5ft 9, evidently as of this morning about 15 lbs from my hs weight, brunette very blue eyes, I am pretty, it's gonna be his loss. It's really too bad he chooses to continue to speak with her via txt or whatever when he has a gorgeous wife to come home too. This woman, I sent a picture to another forum member, and they didn't have very nice things to say about her looks. LOL


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Your beautiful in your heart! ANd I'm sure your as beautiful as you describe. My comments stand.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

You know, I was reading on marriage builders, I didn't get to do a very long plan a, and am clearly on plan b, what it doesn't really cover is what a spouse does when they find out the spouse returns to the affair and is cake eating. I know I did what was right by asking him to leave, but just for discussion sake, since I didn't get a chance to reread the book, does anyone know what dr. harley says when a spouse returns to the affair? Is it just wait it out and hope for the best? Kind of discouraging when he says that not many couples reconcile after separation.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

I hope I didn't make you uncomfortable, just trying to make you feel good about yourself. I am attached and won't let it change unless my WS blows her last chance.

I hate to add that statistics say separations greatly increase the odds of divorce. That doesn't say it's not possible to R. R is in the minority thought only about 30% without factoring in separation.
Count your blessings though. You found him out. You can walk away knowing you gave it every chance possible with your head up. He's the fool, not you.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

OH god no lol, not at all, I didn't catch your post right away. I hope to god we aren't one of them. There's no reason not to when he gets his head on straight. He had no right to start up with her again. I am going to IC on thursday and see what she says about another couples session, but who knows. I will wait until Thursday, I really hope he sees the light soon.


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## krismimo (Jan 26, 2011)

Paramore I have been reading your posts for some time, and although I don't know you, something tells me that your a great friend, a warm person and a straight shooter when the occasion calls for it, I wish you were my neighbor! Anyways your husband is refusing to see his actions and honestly being more than a jerk right now, if you don't mind me saying so. 

I think right now you need to listen to some music that makes you feel sexy and empowered and start ignoring him. Do you like the artist Pink? You should listen to the song called So What. 

That song perfectly reminds me of your situation and it has a good message. Girl get your groove back, and do things that make you feel great and happy. Be your own PR person, stay active, hang out more with the gf's do things that YOU want to do. be more spontanious with the kids do things with them that havnt done give them something to look foward to, give your self something to look foward to. Paramore if you can go to vegas with a friend do something fun for you even if it is for one day or one weekend, you need to change your environment maybe change some scenery, get away from it and think about just you for a change. And when you get back from your fabo trip we want to hear all about it! =)

-KRIS


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

LOL, don't have the funds for vegas, even though i know someone I could stay with, I have a friend that lives down there, I know that I need to do something fun. It's so sad that people can see me for who I really am when the man that knew me for so long can't see it, thank you kris.


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## krismimo (Jan 26, 2011)

:smthumbup::smthumbup:Your welcome paramore I think your a beautiful person inside and out, and it truly is his lost if he doesn't get his s*** together. Even if you can't go to vegas you need time to get away from the kids to think. I know they good kids but you need to sperate youself for a little while to do what you want to do but you can't do it in front of the kids, like laugh, cry, cuss out loud, drink a bottle of wine with some ice cream and just veg with no interruptions, maybe get a booty call.... Just kidding!!!... maybe..... =) just remember you have people here that are rooting for you and support you no matter what happens. =)


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

krismimo said:


> Paramore I have been reading your posts for some time, and although I don't know you, something tells me that your a great friend, a warm person and a straight shooter when the occasion calls for it, I wish you were my neighbor! Anyways your husband is refusing to see his actions and honestly being more than a jerk right now, if you don't mind me saying so.
> 
> I think right now you need to listen to some music that makes you feel sexy and empowered and start ignoring him. Do you like the artist Pink? You should listen to the song called So What.
> 
> ...


She is a great friend  Funny story with me and her. We were friends on another website from a couple years ago. We didnt really talk much then but we knew who each was on there. That website ended up having issues and so we became friends on facebook. We've been friends on facebook for at least a year now. One day I posted something on here that I had made a note about on FB. She put two and two together, and emailed me about it and we realized we were both on TAM  We've become very close since then. Yes, she is a beautiful, smart, funny woman.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

thanks guys, that brought me up.


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

WE ARE ALL BEAUTIFUL SMART INTELLIGANT WOMEN AND WE DESERVE TO BE TREATED AS SUCH! All these ignorant pr*cks can just f off!


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Lilyana said:


> WE ARE ALL BEAUTIFUL SMART INTELLIGANT WOMEN AND WE DESERVE TO BE TREATED AS SUCH! All these ignorant pr*cks can just f off!


Fkn rights! Ill say it again! Nothing more sexy than a strong women with conviction and strength. 

You all need some good spa time getting pampered and spoiled so you can all recharge and remember just who the fk 'they' are dealing with! Lol

Wait...that didn't sound manly at all...did I just say that? Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

C'mon paramore... how much longer are you going to wait for this guy to come around? You know you're my girl, right? So leave him already.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

ahhhmaaaan! said:


> C'mon paramore... how much longer are you going to wait for this guy to come around? You know you're my girl, right? So leave him already.


Ummmm. I think she flirted with me FIRST if I remember correctly. Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Lol! See Paramore! Now you have guys competing for you!


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

alphaomega said:


> Fkn rights! Ill say it again! Nothing more sexy than a strong women with conviction and strength.
> 
> You all need some good spa time getting pampered and spoiled so you can all recharge and remember just who the fk 'they' are dealing with! Lol
> 
> ...


Men deserve pampering and spoiling too. So, come now, you can join us in getting our hair and nails done


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

Ummm... No... I didn't mean it like that at all. She knows that.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

ahhhmaaaan! said:


> Ummm... No... I didn't mean it like that at all. She knows that.


Lol. I know. I'm just teasing both of you. Just my mood tonight I guess. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If I remember right, the MB plan calls for you to set your standards even higher if your WS relapses, or you catch him contacting and lying. First time, a little bit of benefit of the doubt; second time, expect a LOT more before you take them back. Sorry.


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## jem5 (Feb 6, 2011)

Im sorry paramore. You've been on here awhile and Im sorry things arent working out as planned. The most important thing are your kids.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Thank you all, it's ok, I know ahhh didn't mean it that way, it's all in good fun, actually made me smile, and I appreciate that lol. I still hold out some hope, we will see, I know he was on facebook offline, must have been cleaning out his friends list, and of course didn't get rid of the ones that counted, talk about rubbing salt in the wound, I only checked thinking, maybe he came to his senses a teeny tiny bit? nope, didn't get upset at all, just added to my disappointment in him. NC still in place, I wanted to break it so badly, but didn't.


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

Good for you... stay strong.. stick to that NC. If he doesnt come around too bad, he will lose the most beautiful, passionate and loving woman in his life! HIS LOSS! 

Now come on down to soo foo and lets go get our hair done. One of my girlfriends is in cosmotology school.. we get discounts! lol


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

LOL my car is a pos and don't think it would make it, my aunt wanted me to come down there for an open house this weekend too lol.


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

awwwww man!.. Do you know where Toronto is? I know its north of brookings... but not sure how far that is from you. Anyway I have to go to Toronto for work this weekend.... Toronto SD, you blink you miss it!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

NC also means not checking up on him. No FB.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

you are correct, he was offline, but you are still correct, but you will be proud of me, I have NOT called or texted him, that's something right? lol I am kind of mad because I texted his sister this morning, asking if he has mentioned when he wanted to see the kids, and I haven't heard anything, wtf, I expect some notice, he is not going to just "decide" to take the son and spend the morning with him at last minute, or tell sister to tell me on saturday morning he will come and get them for the afternoon after he gets off work. I had told him it needed to be planned in advanced and be convenient for both of us, or come up with an actual schedule. Whatever, isn't that hard to quick brainstorm and have his sister send a quick text. His 6 year old son misses him most, well besides me.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

paramore said:


> you are correct, he was offline, but you are still correct, but you will be proud of me, I have NOT called or texted him, that's something right? lol I am kind of mad because I texted his sister this morning, asking if he has mentioned when he wanted to see the kids, and I haven't heard anything, wtf, I expect some notice, he is not going to just "decide" to take the son and spend the morning with him at last minute, or tell sister to tell me on saturday morning he will come and get them for the afternoon after he gets off work. I had told him it needed to be planned in advanced and be convenient for both of us, or come up with an actual schedule. Whatever, isn't that hard to quick brainstorm and have his sister send a quick text. His 6 year old son misses him most, well besides me.


Is his sister a reliable person? 

Personally I think you should suggest dates and times that he could have visitation through email. You want proof that you've given him access. Remember to keep it business like. Tell him you'd appreciate a weeks notice so you don't schedule other activities during the times he'd like visitation.

When he agrees to a date you could have a friend or family member take the children to the door so you don't have to see him. 

Great job not calling or texting, btw!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

his sister is pretty reliable, he is staying with her right now. I guess I don't feel I should have to come forward so much. They are HIS children too, he really should want to see them asap, even though he only got his things yesterday. Wouldn't email be contact? I have to stick to the NC.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

paramore said:


> his sister is pretty reliable, he is staying with her right now. I guess I don't feel I should have to come forward so much. They are HIS children too, he really should want to see them asap, even though he only got his things yesterday. Wouldn't email be contact? I have to stick to the NC.


It would be contact, yes. Personally, I think it's necessary to have business-like contact about the children. I wouldn't recommend talking to him on the phone (could lead to talk about other things) or texting (could make him feel like he has constant access to you), but I think discussing visitation in email is acceptable. 

Something like this:

"H,

The children will be free on the following dates for visitation:

May 12, 3pm-4pm
May 15 3pm- 8pm
...
...
...

Let me know if any of these dates will work for you. Please give at least a weeks notice so I don't schedule other activities during their free time. 

Para"

If he responds the ONLY thing you'd acknowledge is him requesting a date. "I have marked down May 12 from 3-4pm for visitation." If he says the dates don't work, don't respond. He's capable of requesting his own time.

There are members who know a lot more than me when it comes to these things, though. You might want to wait and see what they think before doing anything. 

I'm very impressed by your almost stubbornness to stick to NC! You're going to do great!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I don't think he cares if he has access to me or not, that's why he got that straighttalk phone, if he wanted to access me he would call or text and see if he could come by, despite the NC I instituted. If he really wanted to talk to me, he would, he's too busy texting, and possibly speaking with HER. Whatever that's his deal, despite it breaking my heart. Last time, I did the begging and pleading, I can't do it again. Is the marriage builders method pretty successful? Is there statistics? I have to stick to my guns, I want him to come home badly, but it has to be under strict boundaries and standards we BOTH need to be held accountable to. Not just him....me included.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It's not your place to mother hm by goading him into seeing his own kids.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

That's what I was thinking, if he wanted to see them, he should be the one to come forward first, I texted his sister asking, for the only reason that I want to do something fun this weekend with them, I allowed the chance to have him come forward first, if I don't hear anything today, I will go ahead and make plans. I allowed him the opportunity first, since I get to see them everyday.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Draw up a schedule, send it through the IM no response means it is in place. Keep a journal of everything including if he misses allotted days or is late etc. Do not contact him directly , this plan is to help you as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

When did he start staying with his sister?

I think any marriage counselling could be good though both parties have to be committed to it.


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## reindeer (Mar 24, 2011)

Just my opinion, but I am very sceptical about marriage counselling especially when EA's still going on. People just can't switch off their feelings howevermuch they want things to work.

I attended with my husband 12 years ago after I found he was ringing and talking to somebody. He did not enjoy them and felt the sessions were very one sided and that he was not listened to.

Anyhow denied all the way through any involvement other than phone calls. One week just upped and left home. Affair had been going on 5 months! Marriage counsellor really shocked, felt he was very caring and sincere.

We later reconciled (2 years later after a lot of work) and I asked why he had lied. He said that the affair had happened because of the way he felt about our marriage, and had not been able to make me see, and that he had wanted it to work in his heart.

I tink we wasted a lot of money. if I ever wanted to go again, I would wait a while, not run for a quick fix, it's a lot of cash!

In a break up situation with the same man, not infidelity this time, well not recently


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

he went to his sisters yesterday, I am going to IC tomorrow, plan on asking her if it would be helpful to schedule an MC apt, but his heart isn't here right now, so I don't think it would do any good, in heart right now he's hopeless.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Stick to the guidelines set out by those who specialise in saving marriages, no MC. The affair must be dead , verified to be dead, he must be actively working on the marriage and be fully transparent before you even think of going to MC.

You are running a part of plan B , buy the book "surviving an affair" by Harley or google " Plan B affair " and read the links. Stay dark , get a new IM , it is tough at first it will however improve.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

yup, I won't let him come home if he ever wants to, until he's willing to SHOW me that it is dead and gone forever. I can't go through this again. Is this pretty successful? I pray so lol. I own the book, I am going to reread it again. I NEED the IC.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

MC is pointles if he's still having an affair and in touch with OW.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

yup Jelly, I completely agree.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

paramore said:


> *That's what I was thinking, if he wanted to see them, he should be the one to come forward first, *I texted his sister asking, for the only reason that I want to do something fun this weekend with them, I allowed the chance to have him come forward first, if I don't hear anything today, I will go ahead and make plans. I allowed him the opportunity first, since I get to see them everyday.


If he decides to fight for custody will you have proof that you didn't keep the children from him? Are you saving your texts? Could you contact his sister through email so you have proof that you've given him access? 

My worry is that he'd say his sister never passed on the information and she'd lie for him. She _is_ his sister, after all. If you contact him directly through email it will show that you've been acting in the best interest of your children.

You need to keep thinking a few steps ahead while he's stuck in his affair fog. Try to be prepared for every outcome.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

no he won't take me for custody he works 7 days a week, I work from home, there's no way he would/could. It was always understood that the kids would stay with me primarily.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

paramore said:


> no he won't take me for custody he works 7 days a week, I work from home, there's no way he would/could. It was always understood that the kids would stay with me primarily.


What if he becomes involved with a woman who wants him to work less? What if she doesn't want him paying CS? I'm sure it was always understood that he was to be faithful, but he didn't keep that promise, right?

I'm not trying to say you're wrong or that custody will become a problem. I just think you should be ready for it should it happen. Whatever you decide to do, make sure you have proof that you've offered access.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

he IS with a woman who wants him to be able to work less already, but we got ourselves in a financial hole. He couldn't afford child support and live on his own, at least until we sold our house, as i can't live out here on my own, and satisfied the second mortgage. He makes most of the money, and he would still be responsible for those partially as well as cs, and possible alimony. I could shoot him an email or something of some sorts so there is proof I guess.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Para, so sorry to hear you are going thru this crap. Let him know he is welcome to schedule visiting times with the kids, but don't push it or instigate it yourself.

If it comes down to D day, it may look better that he hasn't seen his kids much. 

Document and journal everything.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

maybe.....but I pray it doesn't come down to divorce. I love that man more than he'll ever know, and it's not holding onto the marriage kind of love. Of course I am scared that my marriage may be over, but I truly do love this man, I just love the actions he is taking right now.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

paramore said:


> maybe.....but I pray it doesn't come down to divorce. I love that man more than he'll ever know, and it's not holding onto the marriage kind of love. Of course I am scared that my marriage may be over, but I truly do love this man, I just love the actions he is taking right now.


I know. You're in a tough situation. But you have to start protecting yourself now.

Its hard to do. But if it doesn't work out later, you'll be glad you did.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Getting “Unhooked” From An Emotional Affair | Marriage Missions International

I found this, and I am fighting the urge to send it to him I won't, so PUT DOWN THE PILLOWS AND DON'T THROW THEM AT ME!!!!


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

It's not fog, I'm a man and I can tell you that it's this - All the blood has gone south and refuses to come back North. In other words, he's thinking with the wrong head!


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

paramore said:


> Getting “Unhooked” From An Emotional Affair | Marriage Missions International
> 
> I found this, and I am fighting the urge to send it to him I won't, so PUT DOWN THE PILLOWS AND DON'T THROW THEM AT ME!!!!


I think books can be very helpful in helping us to cope with what happened but if after reading the book and the advice in the book fails, you can still use that book to throw at them as you throw them out on the asses in the cold.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Add to that his heart is working so hard to keep up it doesn't have time to talk to the brain!


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Believe me, not ALL men are insensitive. Read my thread history some time.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

actually, I am quite positive that it isn't physical, she works alot, and her boyfriend is home when she is at work, and I know from people that know her she rarely leaves the house when she is home from work, and she has her other son on the weekends. I just simply found that thinking of emailing him that link, but I didn't, and 8years, it's all good, normally he is very sensitive, just not right now. It won't do any good to send it to him, as that would break NC and have him thinking I am trying to send him "propoganda" and putting pressure on him to commit to the marriage. I have to play my cards very carefully.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I wish I could send this to him too, he has done a TON of these

http://media.affairrecovery.com.s3.amazonaws.com/docs/20_mistakes_unfaithful.pdf

found this too, I know he doesn't have true remorse only guilt

http://www.survivingbetrayal.com/component/content/article/54-guilt-and-remorse


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Does a heroin addict listen to you when you tell him how bad heroin is for him? A smoker? 

When are you going to STOP obsessing about what your HUSBAND is doing, and redirect your energy to what YOU are doing?


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

When I get done doing a bit of grieving over this last thing lol, it takes a little time unfortunately, well at least for me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Grieving and obsessing are two different things, paramore. We're trying to show you how to handle this so that you don't have to spend as much time grieving: by actively forcing yourself to get a life, you are spending less time dwelling on what you lost. Added benefit, the more you do for YOU, the better you feel.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Why would a guy choose a non physical affair over a potentially whole relationship with his wife? Cause he's no longer in love with his wife but loves the other woman, right? Is that really fog or a chicken **** way of moving on?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

"actually, I am quite positive that it isn't physical, she works a lot, and HER boyfriend is home."- Does everyone cheat nowadays? My god...


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I am not sure what it is....I don't think he is in real love with her, I do believe it's because it makes him feel good about himself, that's what he said to me when this happened the first time with the last EA, I don't think he is actively "looking for a way out" at least that's what he's said this whole time, but can I believe him? Not necessarily, do I want to? Of course. I do believe he still loves me because there have been times where I can feel it, see it in his actions towards me, few and far between as of late, but they have happened. I just think that things got so messed up he doesn't know what's going on in his own head right now, and he needs to be the one to figure it out, no one else can do it for him. Clipclop, I don't know why he would opt for an EA over a potentially whole relationship, I know he wants a good relationship, just not sure if it's with me, and if he doesn't want it with me, he's a fool.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Paramore!

What's happening here, girl? You went from so much conviction and strength - back to trying to convince yourself that he still loves you and that everything is going to work out. If you were a male friend, I would b$tchslap you. But......since your you..well......(hugs)

I know you want this to work out. And, in all reality...it may. But it's not going to work out by anything you do. As all EA highs, you SO is on his love heroin. as a heroin addict...he won't face reality until he hits rock bottom. How will he hit there.....by realizing he lost you, of course. I do have to say....of course he loves you. He most ultimately loves you. So why is he acting like he doesn't? Because he's on heroin. And he will do anything to keep his fix. Even lieing straight to your face. Remember...he's an addict. His behavior is the farthest thing from rational there ever could be.

Ask yourself this one question...then think about it.....for days if you must. "What are you scared of?". Is it losing him.....or being alone? Or something else. With me, I think it was a bit of all of the above...but mostly I thought that I was going to be alone forever. So...I took my wife back...and again....and again....until that third time finding out she was still in the same EA did I have enough. Now, I don't know what the future is going to hold for me. But I'm not scared of it anymore. Something about not being scared of the future, not being with my wife, really sparked something inside of me. Almost like an inner strength I forgot I had. Getting it back was empowering....an Oprah moment if you will. This feeling is great, even with so much uncertainty in my future.

Will I ever reconcile? Maybe. Am I scared if I don't? Not anymore! Will I be alone forever? Absolutely not! Am I scared of going through the dating scene again and weeding out all the wackos out there? Yes! Yes! yes! Lol! But! I will definitely enjoy the ride, that's for sure!

Why am I blathering like this? Because....maybe you just need to let go of all the uncertainty you may be feeling and do what's in your heart. Stay....go...doesn't matter. But please take a step back...go to the spa...go to a relatives....get your head clear...start thinking from a different perspective. And lose any fear you have.

Besides...your self- description reads right out of one of those steamy romance novels my wife read a lot. I personally don't think you have much to worry about in the being lonely department, that's for sure! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Please listen to alphaomega.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

alphaomega said:


> Ask yourself this one question...then think about it.....for days if you must. "*What are you scared of?". *Is it losing him.....or being alone? Or something else.
> 
> ....maybe you just need to let go of all the uncertainty you may be feeling and do what's in your heart.


FEAR drives a lot of things, sadly.

Stop fearing and start doing. If you guys are meant to be, it will work out. It has to come from both though. One person alone cannot do it.

You have been through this with him for so long, his multiple EAs and cheating that it's like it's normal for you at this point. This is not a healthy dynamic.

If he won't work with you he's working against you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you knew when you started dating him that he'd expect to be able to cheat on you, would you have dated him? Of course not.

Just having kids with someone is not a good enough reason to be trampled on and settle. 

You love him because you don't know anything else. But what about a relationship where the guy bends over backward to make you feel safe, secure, loved, and wanted?

You can have that, but you have to walk away from abuse first.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

turnera said:


> But what about a relationship where the guy bends over backward to make you feel safe, secure, loved, and wanted?
> .


Where is that guy? I hope I cross paths with him some day


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

If you don't want to be treated like a consolation prize, then why are acting like one?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Where is that guy?


Someone call me ?

lol.



morituri said:


> If you don't want to be treated like a consolation prize, then why are acting like one?


Bullseye.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Where is that guy? I hope I cross paths with him some day


He's everywhere. He's the nice guy that women want. At least until they get into the relationship and decide they really don't want all that. All that kissing ass just makes you lose respect for them. Then you are off to a bad boy. There is no perfect man. (or woman for that matter).


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Someone call me ?


Good one, Pit.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wide gap between Nice Guy and A$$hole.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

HurtinginTN said:


> He's everywhere. He's the nice guy that women want. At least until they get into the relationship and decide they really don't want all that. All that kissing ass just makes you lose respect for them. Then you are off to a bad boy. There is no perfect man. (or woman for that matter).


It's not the kissing, touching, loving, or feeling of safety that turns a woman off. It's knowing that she can do whatever she wants because her man has no boundaries. You can be as nice as you want as long as you're unwilling to put up with her ****.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Ok, I am back, it doesn't that PMS is in the mix. He was the guy that bent over backwards for me for the longest time, please remember I am at fault at what happened in the marriage, I helped put him in the mindset that he cannot trust me, as I cannot trust him. His affairs are NOT my fault, mine is NOT his fault, just have to remind everyone that I put him through some **** as well. My husband suffered from the case of Mr. Nice Guy, and I am guilty of taking some advantage of that, sometimes on purpose, most of the time not. Anyways, I am sitting at my sisters doing laundry watching my son, and nephew play on the playground. Just shooting the ****. I did read on the MB website that the NC means that it's left open for the WW to contact spouse. So anyways he asked for a fb chat. I was cool, calm. I don't believe the crap that came out of his mouth, but I validated his feelings. He actually said that the OW gives him relationship advice LOL, I guess she defends me, gives him a womans pov, and defends me, and encourages him to come back to me, what kind of ****ed up bull**** is that? HAHAHAHA. Evidently she has no ulterior motive, bull****. That made me about spit pop into my keyboard from laughter. Ummm....duh, she's trying to play the nice girl, the hero, any person that is illiterate, deaf, blind, and completely stupid could see through that, I am sorry, I am sure I am gonna get blasted for fb'ing him, but I thought what the hell, I'll entertain myself with the fog bull****. I asked him why do you speak with her, he said because things aren't good at home, HAHAHA, ya think? Part of the reason things aren't good at home is cuz you are talking to her, LOL. I was just smiling as I read his babble, when he was talking about his feelings I validated, but whatever lol. Paramore the Great is back!!!! lol.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

WhereAmI said:


> It's not the kissing, touching, loving, or feeling of safety that turns a woman off. It's knowing that she can do whatever she wants because her man has no boundaries.


I don't think this is gender-specific. Nobody wants a doormat, male or female.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> Part of the reason things aren't good at home is cuz you are talking to her, LOL


Did you tell him that? You should have.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Mr. Para knows that. He is fully aware of what he's doing.

It's up to Para to squash the BS.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

WhereAmI said:


> It's not the kissing, touching, loving, or feeling of safety that turns a woman off. It's knowing that she can do whatever she wants because her man has no boundaries. You can be as nice as you want as long as you're unwilling to put up with her ****.


Yeah, you know I saw something interesting once. I don't recall where exactly. Essentially it examined the roles and characteristics of the alpha male, beta male, and the omega male in the animal kingdom and how instinctively as part of nature and evolution females were drawn to or naturally repulsed by certain qualities often at a subcontious level... 

Even if women say they want a nice guy, a sensitive guy... That is a sharp edge to walk, because if you teeter over and a women senses weakness... You might as well be a sexual lepper.. Weakness is *Evolutionary Kryponite* in the animal kingdom.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> I don't think this is gender-specific. Nobody wants a doormat, male or female.


Very true.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

What does he allege would make things good at home? He has to know what he wants if he's going to complain about what he doesn't. If he doesn't know, there's his assignment for ic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I didn't tell him that Turn for the sheer reason, I am pretty sure he had been drinking, and I didn't want the talk to escalate into an arguement. I figured I'd address that if he initiated contact again. He isn't bowling me over with this "she is encouraging me to go back to you" and "she defends you alot," It is a self serving way for her to make herself look good, "she has changed alot in 16 years" I am not falling for this crap defense of this stupid wench. Homeboy can spout his bull**** all he wants, I am NOT falling for it. He needs time, fine, I am not begging. I told him that when, I am pretty confident in the word WHEN he comes around he'd best pray that I am not so jaded that I am just done, I told him that was a very strong possibility. If this stupid woman didn't have ulterior motives, she would say to him, "Ok, I have feelings for you, but you are married, if it doesn't work out between you and your wife, and the timing is right, call me." Or not even admit that you have feelings for him at all, that is what a REAL woman who doesn't ulterior motives would do. His head is just as far up his rectum as it always was, but whatever, today I don't care, he can dig himself into his lonely little grave if he wants to. I have my me and my kids, and my nephew and son are gonna go fly kites soon, he is missing all of this, and that's his problem.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

ClipClop said:


> What does he allege would make things good at home? He has to know what he wants if he's going to complain about what he doesn't. If he doesn't know, there's his assignment for ic.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dipsmack says that he needs to get himself mentally healthy to make good long term decisions. All well and good if HE WASN'T LEANING ON STOOPID BEOTCH FOR "ADVICE!!!!" He isn't sure if he wants to be alone or with me. He needs time to decide if his feelings are with me or not, blah blah blah blah, FOG FOG FOG FOG, Pull head out of rectum time, *giggle* In a relationship he wants what we all want in a good relationship, he's just not sure he wants it with me. Whateves, he can have it with me, but he can face his kids if he wants to leave, he can face them if he decides that our family is done. I can guarantee without a shadow of a doubt that down the road he will feel the pain that I am feeling right now, and regret it like crazy, when he loses the woman that loved him more than anyone else ever could, that knew him inside and out, that was his best friend, then he can let that haunt him for the rest of his life, and if that happens, I hope it does haunt him.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Doesn't someone normally get mentally healthy by going to a pdoc, doing some therapy, maybe going to church, meditating, yoga, something other than talking to someone who may be as lost as you?
Dipsmack made me smile. 

Is he willing to consider some real help.from people with some experience? To go outside his comfort zone a bit so he might obtain a broader view? He's too close to the situ and she's too close to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Cool, paramore. You handle things much better than I ever would. You're doing great.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

ClipClop said:


> Doesn't someone normally get mentally healthy by going to a pdoc, doing some therapy, maybe going to church, meditating, yoga, something other than talking to someone who may be as lost as you?
> Dipsmack made me smile.
> 
> Is he willing to consider some real help.from people with some experience? To go outside his comfort zone a bit so he might obtain a broader view? He's too close to the situ and she's too close to him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 He has no reason to get help, in his mind, because he's getting what he wants. Unfortunately.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

He has every reason. This isn't a minor decision. Like everyone else though, it is frightening to look yourself deeply in the eyes. Further, how can he be getting what he wants? If he's into ow and it isn't physical, he's having only a partial relationship. If he's not sure about his marriage, he's not getting what he wants there either. 

He's likely trapped by fear.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Yeah, he went to one IC, and thinks he can do this all on his own, it's up to him to get help. He thinks this OW is helping him. Now he has been listening to his sister as well, who has been through this cheating thing, as her ex H cheated on her. She actually told him that I justified and that she would be reacting the same as I, GO TEAM PARAMORE. Now, I am not sure how she feels about him speaking with this woman, I don't think she wants to get put in a position where she is put in the middle of her brother and sis in law, and that's perfectly fine, I left that one lie. 

Ok, this is just for laughs. How about I call my OM, and have him give me relationship advice, I will dial him on the phone right now, it's ok right? I mean he is a good guy, and makes good moral decisions, so I should really listen to his advice right? I should take him at his word and really listen to him when he defends my husband. I mean, this guy really knows me, and with his past history, he has really learned from it, so he's qualified to give me advice. (again this is supposed to be funny) Doesn't it just sound ridiculous just reading it? It's so funny that this is the kind of **** that is going through my husbands head right now. It's the kind of **** that comedies are written for. My GOD I could write a book about this, it'd be a hit. On the other hand, even though this woman is a maggot infested ***** hole, if she wants to "defend" me, and "encourage him to come back to me" then let her, maybe it'll work to my advantage LOL!!!!!! At some point and time, beotch will slip up, and he can fall, I won't be there to catch him, but maybe I'll be there when he is ready to come home and commit, and I say MAYBE. I more than likely would with the right boundaries and conditions in place, but I am going to say maybe for now.

LOL that comment above was supposed to be ***** hole, as in ***** infection, the obscenity filter here is funny.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

No clip he wasn't getting what he needed from me in our marriage, and neither was I, we didn't listen to the cries from help from each other, hence where we are now. Before I found out about this last thing, he was getting some emotional needs met by me, because I have come leaps and bounds, but he started up again with her, because I don't think he was really "over" her, so he turned to her for his other "emotional needs", and was sleeping with me, basically cake eating. While it hurt like ****, I am glad I found out, because who knows how long I would have been used like that.

He should have every reason right now to want to get help, he's just all messed up in his head right now, he's justifying, he's minimizing, he's doing all sorts of stupid ****. He at this time does believe he's getting everything he needs in his present state, no one can help him from himself.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

What does her bf know about this? Don't you think he'd be rightly threatened to know your h would move out and think, fine, over, over his GF? Id be.

Doesn't he deserve to know?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Tried to find him the first time, but from what I hear, he's cheated on her several times, so I highly doubt he'd even care.....and it doesn't sound like she cares enough to leave, what a healthy environment to bring a baby up in...oh no, he moved out because I made him after discovering, and partially did because he couldn't handle the "pressure" of constantly talking about this crap, which I understand can get tiring, and because he didn't want to be spied on, whatever baby, hope you enjoy living out of garbage bags for a long time, and pray you don't overstay your welcome at sisters, because you can't afford your own place. I don't mean to sound like a *****, but I can easily switch extra money into another account so he can't access it, he doesn't have the pw to the online bank account LOL.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Para, you have GOT to tell the boyfriend. Seriously.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

You know girl, I have looked everywhere, I have asked people that may know him from his hometown, I have googled him, I had a cell phone number that has been dcd, I found a landline that has been dcd, I called her ex H, he doesn't even know this guy, I have found different addresses they might live at, but I would hate to stop by when she's home, as I am not completely sure what she drives. Honestly I don't think he would even care if he's ****ed 5 other women while with her. I have looked in the phone book, facebook, myspace....it's like this guy only shows up at Walmart with her, I know people that know her and mentioned that they saw him with her there, but no one knows a damn thing about this dude, not even her ex H, who she has a child with as well.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

If he cheated and she stayed, she cares, just like you. And cheaters can be real jealous. Don't judge their relnship. Just inform.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

this could be true, but read above post, I can't find the dude. I am more inclined to believe it is out of convenience and finances, since they have a young baby together, but I don't know I am not in their home THANK GOD!!!!!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I thought you knew him from FB...?


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Whose he cheated with?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

no I mean I tried to look him up on facebook, nothing came up.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

@clip, I have no idea, this is info provided to me by my husband, that he cheated on her, so I honestly have no clue if it is true or not, because you this woman is so honest and whatnot....... I can't even find anyone who actually knows this guy, it's like he exists, but he doesn't.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Remember what I said this morning when we talked, be cautious of everything. I understand that you are so desperate to believe everything your H tells you right now. I've been there, done that. My husband could have told me any outrageous line and I would have believed him simply because I wanted to. It was easier to believe him than to accept the truth. I'm not saying that what your H is not true but speaking from experience, take it all with a grain of salt.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Classmates.com?

The bar closest to his house? 

Get a friend to do recon?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I am completely cautious apple, totally, I am taking what he says with a grain of salt. IF and strong IF he's telling the truth, he's blind to the fact that this woman clearly has ulterior motives. That I am sure of, or else she wouldn't be speaking with him. His sister I do believe has both of our best interests at heart because we have always gotten along really well, and his family adores me. I do believe she just doesn't want to get stuck between her brother and me, lord knows I wouldn't, I have been in that position with my sister and her ex bf, and it sucks.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

paramore said:


> I have come leaps and bounds


This is your journey, your growing, and evolving. 

Know that this is your path. 

Believe that things have happened exactly the way that they have happened to put you right here, right now, on this path. Until now, this journey has been both of yours... Now you have reached a point, a fork. You can't drag him, He can't come with you, your going to have to keep going. 

maybe..

Your meant for more and his path might just end here...
. Let go of him. Keep following your path, your journey goes higher up...

He can't come with you.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

You know, he still hasn't said anything about seeing the kids this weekend, is he ****ing seriously thinking about not seeing his kids? Saturday afternoon would make the most sense, I asked for a few days notice, would it be unfair of me if he called me tomorrow night and said he wanted them, and if I had plans I told him no? This **** is starting to piss me off. And another thing, the gas station he works at is right on our way home, and my son always wants to "go to get juice where daddy works" especially when he sees his dads truck, do I stop? I mean he hasn't seen the kids since Sunday, my son is constantly saying he hates his dad, and he wants to hurt him because he doesn't want to live with us, this is so heartbreaking.....he has never been the one to deal with this ****, always been me.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

No idea. Sorry. It sucks a lot to be in that position.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> This is your journey, your growing, and evolving.
> 
> Know that this is your path.
> 
> ...


This made me cry.......


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

paramore said:


> would it be unfair of me if he called me tomorrow night and said he wanted them, and if I had plans I told him no?


Did you tell his sister, as we suggested, that you were giving him the chance to set up arrangements and, if you didn't hear from him by Thursday, you were making other plans for the kids for the weekend? I can't remember if you did.

If so, make your own plans and tell him no if he comes by.

If not, call her NOW and do it!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

yes, I told her I had to have at least 2 3 days notice, I didnt specify Thursday, only reason is cuz I forgot lol. I will get a hold of her this afternoon.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

paramore said:


> This made me cry.......


I'm sorry I didn't mean to.

What I said is a thought I held onto tightly in my own head during this process with my W.

That thought, Was given to me by my best friend. He knew how shattered I was... and told me what I just told you. I held onto that in the deepest part of my soul, it helped me keep going during the roughest parts... 

When I was in horrible pain and felt weak I often repeated to myself... 

"Pit, she can't come with you".

That thought was a gift someone that loved me shared with me, I wanted to share the thought with you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good. Then you can plan away, because his sister has given him your boundary, and YOU are going to enforce it.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

oh pit, it wasn't bad tears, while sad tears, they were also inspired.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

aren't these the most self pitying phrases I've been horrible to you, I am sorry, and I'm not good for anyone J you deserve better. Heard those yesterday after he texted me asking if I was ok, yeah I am up on cloud 9 that my H is cheating on me yet again!!! I wish the me not contacting him wasn't in order. I want to call and just ****ing unload on him. I want to ask him if he's slept with her, if he has, he and she had better ****ing hide....cuz I have got his shotgun sitting around here somewhere LOL,(I am kidding of course) There are only two separate times where I think it could have happened, in the last few weeks where he gets Thursday mornings off until he has to work at 2, he had left to go get his check and stuff at 11, and he doesn't have to work til 2, k I understand he deserves time to goof off by himself, but now I sit and wonder a bit.......


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And what good does wondering do you? I mean, seriously? When you could be focusing on YOU and your kids?


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

because it was almost midnight kids were sleeping, and I was letting myself feel some anger....I am good today, see? I am getting better I didn't sit and sob all LOL, some teary moments, but no full blown tears. Wondering really does no good, except brew up some questions to unload on him, cuz I do deserve answers. It sucks cuz I have my two boys I watch all day long, I mean all day last one leaves after 8, we can go outside which is fine, but I am still by myself all day long. I want to go to our craft store, no WAY I am going to take a 6, 3, and 2 year old in there. I would like to get some new shorts, but taking the 3 year old into walmart is a *****, he is quite horrid in there. I wouldn't mind going to sisters again, but she is quite jaded when it comes to men. My house is a mess, but it's a pain to clean with 3 young kids, I just know I need to get out of here today, and not come home till like 6 or 7 or so. My son and the 2 year old are pretty well behaved, but I can't even do dishes or anything in the kitchen when the 3 year old starts causing trouble with the other two boys, I wonder if this daycare thing needs to go soon, like when my son starts kindegarten in the fall. Being home stranded with young kids that aren't your own is extremely stressful, and with this situation on top of it, no wonder I am driving myself insane. It's a wonder I haven't went postal. Guessing he isn't seeing the kids at all this weekend too, oh well, it's supposed to be nice out for once tomorrow, we are gonna see if my dad can get lawnmower fixed, and let the son have run of the yard while mommy gets stuff done around the yard that daddy said he was going to do for months.....that's ok, being trapped in the house all day for months sucks, this is gonna be like a vacation LOL, anyone wanna come help clean up a hobby farm?


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

paramore said:


> anyone wanna come help clean up a hobby farm?


Sounds like fun. I'm planning to do some bushhogging on my dad's farm one of these weekends soon. It is nice to get out and enjoy the spring weather.


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

Drop the kids off with H and come down here go out with me tonight!


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## Tempted6119 (Apr 29, 2011)

I wish I could come help you Paramore. I'm pretty sure I could make you laugh at least for a little while.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

LOL Tempted, I am gonna sure you could.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Can you take them to the library today?


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

You know that could be an idea, it's just the 3 year old that I struggle with LOL, he doesn't get a whole lot of discipline at home, so I have to be the tough one when he is in my care and he challenges me quite a bit, I sure could try that.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

DId you check your messages?


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I did thanks 8 years, it was very helpful.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Well, wish me luck, I have been doing some more digging on this OW's BF, I can only find so many of his name on Intelius, I found what could be this guys sister, I am by process of deduction thinking I found this guys sister on FB. This guy that I am thinking it is is from a place about 45 minutes from one of our main towns, which I live 5 miles from. I emailed her, asking if this was **** sister who is in a R with *****, and that I would like to get in contact with them, and asked her to please keep this to herself for now, wish me luck, I also said if this is ****sister, the reason I would like to contact him is because **** is in an adulterous emotional affair with my H ****, and I feel he has a right to know, I found out in a very unfortunate manner. I am not trying to mess with their life, he just has the right to know.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

PM me the name, I have an account with Intelus with unused credits.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

ANd be sure to ask any questions you want to in PM. I'll help any way I can.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

ok....he just came up to pick up son. That was interesting. He said hi, I said hi, asked are you still speaking with her? he said a little. I said how's that going for ya? He said dunno, I said I hope you are happy with your choice, look at what you are giving up, and then he left. Now I know I shouldn't have said anything, but remember this is just a week out, I am getting better.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I just know I don't know how I am supposed to act when I am in such emotional turmoil ya know? This is all new to me. How do I treat someone I love like a total stranger? He doesn't want a confrontation, we haven't even really sat and spoke about it, he wants to avoid it and it is pissing me off even more, I deserve answers goddamn it. I deserve explanations face to face.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Para - answers are for people you love. In his position he is both embarassed and guilty. To talk honestly with you, there would have to be a decision on his part to come back. Until then, he feels like his life is completely his own and not open to your judgement or comment. It is the same thing a person in any affair does when they are still engaged with the OP. When I told you I had to completely back off when my wife was still involved with the OM, it was the same thing. Any attempt by me to ask questions, get angry, say I love you or anything for that matter was received with anger and pulling back on her part because she knew she was wrong, knew she was hurting me in unbelievable ways and could only use the fight or flight response everyone uses when they are in danger or confronted with a serious problem THEY DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH. It's not fair, especially when you are one the one trying and still deeply in love that you have to be one to back off and lessen the pressure on them and pray they come to their senses. Even when you start to R, you have to be careful to not use anger and berating them as it causes the same reaction from the WS. Back to the statement do no harm. Even though you are the one being harmed, you need to do everything you can to not do the same back. What you need and want are things he can't give you until he wants to. Make sense?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

paramore said:


> ok....he just came up to pick up son. That was interesting. He said hi, I said hi, asked are you still speaking with her? he said a little. I said how's that going for ya? He said dunno, I said I hope you are happy with your choice, look at what you are giving up, and then he left.


Please stop doing this ASAP.
Focus on you, do something nice for yourself today and tommorrow and get tough, Para.


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

... don't want to waste my breath again, but you know what you have to do girlie.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Now i'm sure I'll get the man up or woman up responses. In that regard, you reactions need to balanced with definitive boundaries and requirements for his return that you stick to and don't waffle or cave in on. You have to stand the ground you need to have. Don't let that include anger, spiteful comments and attacks. As I've said to others, be the better person that he wants to come back to, not the ***** that does nothing but give him a hard time.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

It is sooooo hard. You're right it isn't fair. I'll do better tonight, I just got done mowing 3 acres, and my shoulders are a bit pink LOL, forgot how relaxing mowing on a rider is. Now what do I do with myself until 900. I don't feel like cleaning the house, it's gonna sit in filth until tomorrow. Gah, what a great mothers day huh? Oh well, I am happily numb now. Not drinking or anything.....yet


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I've got a bottle of sangria I am going to pop open in a few. If only you were closer! LOL


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

thinking about running to gas station and getting a sixer of michelob, hehe. If I wasn't so grubby, I'd go visit the hospital, my friend A just had her fourth baby last night.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Pamper yourself - go get a bottle of Licor 43 or Quarenti Tres. It is spanish liqueor that is vanilla. Put it over ice in small glass - you won't drink this to excess because it is too rich. Then put the bottle in freezer so the next time you don't need ice to dilute it. If you do like vanilla, you can also try it in coke - but that can lead to blind drunk. It's also great on ice cream or in hot cocoa with ameretto.
Don't go near his work tease. Focus on pampering yourself, not him.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I won't go near his work again lol.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Happy Mother's Day Paramore. You deserve all the best and may the next year bring it to you! Hold those great kid's today and enjoy the beauty you have created. Focus on you, you're all that matters today!


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## Tempted6119 (Apr 29, 2011)

Happy Mother's Day Paramore!
To a great mommy!!
Pamper yourself, Sweetie. You deserve it and sometimes we are the only ones to do it. Doesn't mean we deserve it any less.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Ok, so wondering if I did this right. Last couple of weeks I haven't been well, finally with much gutwrenching pain, my parents made me go to ER. My sister and mom texted him telling him to call him asap, never did. Although I just found out my sister sent him a strongly worded text something along the lines of, "Why are you wishing me happy mothers day, you should be wishing that to the mother of your children, the one on the verge of going to the ER" Anyways, ass didn't call anyone or text anyone to see if I was ok. I am home now, he texted me about 945 asking why I was in ER, I texted back "If you want to know, you can stop by or call, I am tired of this texting stuff. I expect to talk to my husband which is my right." I left it at that. If he wants to know, he can come and find out for himself. 

He came and got our son last night, and it didn't necessarily go the greatest, will post on that tomorrow. Oh and evidently I have some sort of gastrointestinal bacterial infection, something that falls along the lines of giardia or something like that, won't know for sure what I have exactly for a few days. I am not in such gut wrenching agony now!!!! Wasn't my finest mothers day lol, my parents had been on me all day to go to the hospital, I am glad I did.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Was gonna wait until tomorrow to post but here it goes. This was last night. Ok so I changed my mind, he came to get son, I guess almost as soon as he left, son was trying to hit him, saying he hated him. I guess he said to him that he was angry at him for talking to people that he wasn't supposed to, and stuff like that, he called his aunt K a *****, I am thinking that he believes K is the one he isn't supposed to be speaking with.

He was saying all sorts of stuff when he came home, saying that daddy said he loves me, that daddy played on computer whole time, some of it could be true, some made up because he wants it to be true. He said daddy said that you hated me. He told his daddy that I said I hated him, never said that. I am posting this cuz I read what happened with Apples kids. He texted me saying it hurt to see him so angry, YA THINK!!!! It is his choices right now that are hurting our son. All of the stuff in the past yeah ****ed things up, it is the actions NOW. He is hurting our son so much, all he has to do is stop the wrongdoing, it amazes me how the know it's wrong, and they are hurting people. He texted me today that he is nervous to face me, know what I say? GOOD, be nervous, the longer he waits, the worse it's gonna get. I went from anger to pity. He sits there at his sisters house with nothing but work and WoW, and his kids here and there, and his little fantasy *****, and drinks all the time. It's sad and pathetic. While I am not sure if I'm cut out for this single mom thing, at least I have the love of my children, and my family. This man in his current state is showing his true colors, and they aren't pretty.

I hope for himself that he can stop this self destructive behavior and get himself into counseling, for himself and so he can be the father that my children deserve, regardless. It's sad, just so very sad that a man that I love so much could turn into such a monster. I really pity him if he can't pull himself up, such a great man reduced to this. Whatever tomorrow is another day, my gut pain is gone, I took the day off to rest, I want shampoo my carpet tomorrow, that is therapeutic for me LOL.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Paramore, I'm sure I'm going to get some angry responses from others and you will not like what I'm going to say. Just think about it before you respond.
What has you son overheard or have you said to him that would lead him to believe you hate his dad and that his dad is contacting someone he shouldn't. You use a lot of Bravado on this site saying what you would like to do to him and how angry you are with him. I hope that is just bravado and not something you repeat in phone conversations or discussions with other people and god forbid, not in front of or to your kids. He picked it up somewhere. Seeing your pain and hearing these types of things whether intended or not is what caused his reaction. Yes you husband is being a jerk and yes, he needs to answer some of the tough questions kids ask himself. If you did say things to your kids, shame on you for dragging impressionable kids into a war they don't belong in. This is between you and your husband. They are effected enough seeing your pain and unhappiness, wanting to protect you and unable to do so and feeling extremely helpless in the process and lastly feeling like maybe they are part of the problem when your having a bad day and inadvertantly take it out on them. Your kids need your support, to know they are in no way part of your husbands and your issues. They are too young to understand. In my mind, unless they are adults in their 20's and mature enough, there is no reason they should know any details. In spite of what you and he have both done and what he continues to do, do you think it's right for them long term to loose the connection, confidence or belief you are good people with one or both of you? In the future, if you seperate, would you want them to hate their dad or you? Would you want it to degrade into a tit for tat mud slinging contest in which both of you lose their respect? Your husband could just as well reveal all you've done out of anger. If you stay together, would you want the damage caused to effect you and your husbands chance at reconciliation? No matter what happens you have to think way down the road to the future. I've heard people on here say there is nothing wrong telling adolecscents. Let's see, the kid is already feeling his way through raging hormones and trying to understand relationships. What value is there in dragging a teen into something when he/she already has all of these growing up issues to deal with. When it comes to adult kids, I decided my 25 year old would know ONLY if my Wayward wife wanted her to. I was not going to destroy my daughters image of my wife. It may have been different with her if we decided to divorce. But only her because she was mature enough to know the truth and understand it. SO when it comes to the kids, in my mind, keep them out of it entirely and be very careful what they overhear. You also need to try and undo the damage with your son by finding out what your husband said to him and explaining to him that his dad and you are having problems but that he should not be mad at his dad. Sometimes people find they can't stay together and it is not because of him or his siblings, it just is. You should do it together with your husband for the sake of the kids and discuss before hand how to handle it and agree on what to say first. I'm am not in any way defending your husband. I'm trying to make you think of the effects on your kids long term. DO NOT drag them into your pain. They are not your confidants, can't help you and are not weapon to use against your husband. You may NOT intentionally have done anything or you may unintentionally have and not thought about the ramifications long term. In any case, you need to both look at your actions and put the kids ahead of everyhting else and try to fix this with them TOGETHER.

I'm very sorry your weekend was so bad and sorry you are having medical issues.

Yes he's being a ****. Rememebr what I said - DO NO HARM. Back and forth stabbing at each other is only going to force you two further apart. He gets tired of getting his eyes scratched out and it only reinforces his desire to go elsewhere and fires up his flight or fight slef protection response. You are in so much pain, wanting him back, but you can't change him - only he can. It's like the first step for an alcoholic - THEY have to admit they have a problem and WANT to work on it. No loved ones can cause that to happen. You have very good reason to be so hurt. Use it to motivate you to love yourself first AND then to be the better choice for him - not someone he wants to run away from.

PM me if you want to chat offline. Be mad at ME, stop around swear at me, call me every name in the book, then sit and think it through. DO NO HARM means treating him the same way you want to be treated even if he's not worth it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

8yearscheating said:


> He gets tired of getting his eyes scratched out and it only reinforces his desire to go elsewhere and fires up his flight or fight slef protection response.


EXACTLY.

Consider this a final you're studying for. It's not fun, but it has to be done. So what do you do? You put your desires and happiness on hold long enough to get the job done.

Right now, if you want him back, you have to do a great Plan A. You have to look and smell great every time he exchanges kids. You have to smile and make him wonder why you're so happy without him. You have to be on your way somewhere, keys in hand, when he picks up the kids, so he'll wonder where you're going, all dressed up. You have to keep the house immaculate and be making his favorite food/dessert when he comes by, so he can smell it and remember the good times and food he's now giving up.

You have to give him a REASON to come back to you.

Is it hard? Sure. But it's the lot you drew and you're stuck with it. If you haven't got the fortitude to do this great Plan A while he deal with his decisions and wonders which way to go, then you're either not that in love with him, or else you need anti-depressants to help you through this.

But no matter what, give him a reason to choose you.

btw, have you found a counselor for your son yet? I can't remember. He needs one.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I have not ever ever told his dad that I hate him. Never ever ever, I I do think the fact that this last week having medical issues, mixed in with this whole thing has caused me to react in a different manner than I normally would have. I have been dealing with massive gutaches, massive trips to the bathroom, body aches, etc, on top of this. I have always told him, it's ok to be angry with your daddy, it's ok to be angry with mommy, that it's ok to tell us that you are angry with us, but you are to never call us names or try to hit us. Yes I put alot of bravado up just for the sheer reason it makes me smile. The only people I say things to are my mother, sister and a very good female friend, and not in front of my kids. Never. I have had to stop myself from crying in front of him and them many times, the control is getting better. 

The last time when he did this I texted him that we needed to speak of the kids, he never answered. I then had to explain the best I could alone, he got angry at me and stated that I should have made the text more specific. I was like wth??? He said he thought it was just a way to get him to come over or something. I am sorry I didn't specify what I needed to talk about in the text, figured saying we needed to talk about the kids said it all. My husband is a chicken that runs away, stays away, and then complains when I handle the things to the best of my ability, regardless of the fact that I offer him a chance to help out, which is the case of explaining things to the children. He has chosen to run away and stay away, not contacting them to say goodnight, etc. He didn't see our son until Saturday, with no effort to contact the children. I supposed to go for myself today, but think I may call and see if she will speak with him, or have her recommend a good childrens counseler. 

My girls are very mature for their age. My eldest overheard after the first time, she was eavesdropping forever, like months ago, when I would lock myself in my room, or go outside, she would hide beside a window, she got the whole story when I came forward to a friend of mine, and then she came to me wanting clarification, she hinted that she knew alot, and I asked her what, she pretty much dropped the bomb, and I really had no choice, I couldn't lie to her. The 13 year old would then drop hints to the 12 year old, and it was driving her crazy, so I sat down and had a serious conversation with her with what happened. My son, all I said to him is that mommy and daddy weren't being good to each other and both made some very stupid mistakes, and after this last time, I simply told him that daddy is very confused and is continuing to make mistakes. Like it or not, that's how I handled it, I have never handled something like this before, I don't know what to say.

Like it or not how I handled it, I did the best I could. When the girls asked why dad left this time, I left it simple....dad is continuing inappropriate behavior and he lied to me about it.

I have made it VERY clear that if they are angry with him, they should be just as angry with me, as I am not without fault. I have told the children that this has nothing to do with them, and they really do seem to understand that. I do think that my son is just reeling from having daddy back, then gone, then back then gone again.

Turnera, it's hard to look hot when you are sitting on the latrine ever 15 minutes LOL!!!! Like I said combined with this crap infection that I have mixed in with this, hasn't helped things, and 8 years, I don't mind your words, I like a straight shooter.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Just wanted to make sure and you set me straight. If it happened by being overhead it happened and there is no undoing it. I'm sure your daughters talk and he overheard it from them. Sounds like your doing the right hings with them. I totaly agree about child counseling. One good pplace to start for recommendations is the school counselor or other teachers that deal with emotionally impaired kids.

Just focus on what I said - DO NO HARM.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

paramore said:


> I have not ever ever told his dad that I hate him. Never ever ever, I I do think the fact that this last week having medical issues, mixed in with this whole thing has caused me to react in a different manner than I normally would have. I have been dealing with massive gutaches, massive trips to the bathroom, body aches, etc, on top of this. I have always told him, it's ok to be angry with your daddy, it's ok to be angry with mommy, that it's ok to tell us that you are angry with us, but you are to never call us names or try to hit us. Yes I put alot of bravado up just for the sheer reason it makes me smile. The only people I say things to are my mother, sister and a very good female friend, and not in front of my kids. Never. I have had to stop myself from crying in front of him and them many times, the control is getting better.
> 
> The last time when he did this I texted him that we needed to speak of the kids, he never answered. I then had to explain the best I could alone, he got angry at me and stated that I should have made the text more specific. I was like wth??? He said he thought it was just a way to get him to come over or something. I am sorry I didn't specify what I needed to talk about in the text, figured saying we needed to talk about the kids said it all. My husband is a chicken that runs away, stays away, and then complains when I handle the things to the best of my ability, regardless of the fact that I offer him a chance to help out, which is the case of explaining things to the children. He has chosen to run away and stay away, not contacting them to say goodnight, etc. He didn't see our son until Saturday, with no effort to contact the children. I supposed to go for myself today, but think I may call and see if she will speak with him, or have her recommend a good childrens counseler.
> 
> ...


Just my two cents, for what they're worth.

I have a divorce under my belt and we had a young son at that time.

It doesn't matter how mature or aware your kids are - you never, ever put them in the middle of what mommy and daddy are going through - ever, for no reason whatsoever.

When the children ask why daddy doesn't live with you anymore - you simply state that mommy and daddy are having problems they are trying to work out. Nothing more, nothing less. You telling them that daddy is continuing inappropriate behavior and lied to you is NOT the right thing to do. This puts them at odds with daddy and puts them in the middle of what's happening with mommy and daddy - a place they don't need or deserve to be.

The issues between you and daddy have NOTHING to do with the children. Will the outcome affect them - sure - does it affect them that daddy is not living at home right now - sure. But mommy and daddy not getting along is not THEIR issue - its yours and daddy's. 

They have enough to deal with as children, seeing and sensing that something is wrong. But it's not their business or concern about what "it is" that has gone wrong.

My son is 28 and to this day - he DOES NOT know why his dad and I divorced. Why - because it's none of his business. The issues/divorce occurred between me and his dad - not between him and I and not between his dad and him. He was and is a great dad, he was just a lousy husband and THAT is none of my son's business. If he really wants to know, he can ask his dad and he can tell him - the subject has been and is still closed with me.

Leave the children out of this - period. They are being hurt and stressed as it is, don't add to their burden - especially because it doesn't involved them and it is not fair to "turn" the children from their father - and the statement you told your girls did exactly that - daddy lied to mommy, daddy's making mommy cry - daddy becomes the "bad" guy and while he is - he's the "bad" guy to YOU, not to the children.

You need to separate the two - please - for the children's sake.

Oprah had a show years ago about divorce and children and something said on that show has stuck with me today and was a driving force behind how "I behaved" in my first divorce.

"You have to LOVE your children more than you hate/dislike your spouse."

I'm not saying you don't - just think about it.

And you can scream and hate me all you want for saying it - but I've been where you are and you HAVE to keep the children out of it and as insulated as possible about the problems between YOU TWO - that's what they are - problems between YOU TWO - not between you/him or the children.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Oh, I am not going to scream at you my dear, I appreciate all of the opinions on this forum, I do not take offense to anything said here. My counseler is going to put me in touch with someone to speak with my son, she will be getting back to me in the next few days, as well as set me with someone interim as she is going on maternity leave at the end of the month. On the other hand, no tears today, still kind of weak, probably gonna take another day just to be on the safe side. I am numb, don't feel anything for him right now, and I intend to keep it that way, not bad....the last times it was a much bigger mess. Kinda sad when you learn to get up and dust yourself off alot faster. Now, I am gonna try to take a little nappy, I am wiped. Hopefully these meds make me feel 100% better by Wednesday, hubby probably isn't gonna be happy that I even took one day off, much less too, oh well, he's not the one who has the massive gut pains that I have had LOL, he got mad at me the last time when I discovered him that I took the next day off just to cope. I am not him, I am me, after an emotional wall, a person sometimes has to take a day to cope. For me, this time is to actually not feel like shiz lol.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

paramore said:


> Oh, I am not going to scream at you my dear, I appreciate all of the opinions on this forum, I do not take offense to anything said here. My counseler is going to put me in touch with someone to speak with my son, she will be getting back to me in the next few days, as well as set me with someone interim as she is going on maternity leave at the end of the month. On the other hand, no tears today, still kind of weak, probably gonna take another day just to be on the safe side. I am numb, don't feel anything for him right now, and I intend to keep it that way, not bad....the last times it was a much bigger mess. Kinda sad when you learn to get up and dust yourself off alot faster. Now, I am gonna try to take a little nappy, I am wiped. Hopefully these meds make me feel 100% better by Wednesday, hubby probably isn't gonna be happy that I even took one day off, much less too, oh well, he's not the one who has the massive gut pains that I have had LOL, he got mad at me the last time when I discovered him that I took the next day off just to cope. I am not him, I am me, after an emotional wall, a person sometimes has to take a day to cope. For me, this time is to actually not feel like shiz lol.


I hope you feel better and thanks for not throwing the cast-iron skillet at me (my Mom hit my Dad upside the head with one when I was young, right before the divorce).

Don't be throwing any skillets...


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Never, overall I am a pretty nice person, and I don't attack someone unless they are right there actually in my face and screaming, which my dear, you were not.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

taking tomorrow off again, hopefully feeling even better, my house is trashed, someone come over and help me clean it LOL. I am just plain old exhausted, don't have the energy to give son a bath lol, think the 13 year old may just have to do it.....lol


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

A 13 year old should be doing at least a third of the household maintenance ANYWAY. 

It's your job, as their parent, to teach them how to do everything to run a house. And a junior high school student should be pretty self-sufficient by then. They SHOULD be able to step in and keep the house running if you're ill.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

paramore said:


> Was gonna wait until tomorrow to post but here it goes. This was last night. Ok so I changed my mind, he came to get son, I guess almost as soon as he left, son was trying to hit him, saying he hated him. I guess he said to him that he was angry at him for talking to people that he wasn't supposed to, and stuff like that, he called his aunt K a *****, I am thinking that he believes K is the one he isn't supposed to be speaking with.
> 
> He was saying all sorts of stuff when he came home, saying that daddy said he loves me, that daddy played on computer whole time, some of it could be true, some made up because he wants it to be true. He said daddy said that you hated me. He told his daddy that I said I hated him, never said that. I am posting this cuz I read what happened with Apples kids. He texted me saying it hurt to see him so angry, YA THINK!!!! It is his choices right now that are hurting our son. All of the stuff in the past yeah ****ed things up, it is the actions NOW. He is hurting our son so much, all he has to do is stop the wrongdoing, it amazes me how the know it's wrong, and they are hurting people. He texted me today that he is nervous to face me, know what I say? GOOD, be nervous, the longer he waits, the worse it's gonna get. I went from anger to pity. He sits there at his sisters house with nothing but work and WoW, and his kids here and there, and his little fantasy *****, and drinks all the time. It's sad and pathetic. While I am not sure if I'm cut out for this single mom thing, at least I have the love of my children, and my family. This man in his current state is showing his true colors, and they aren't pretty.
> 
> I hope for himself that he can stop this self destructive behavior and get himself into counseling, for himself and so he can be the father that my children deserve, regardless. It's sad, just so very sad that a man that I love so much could turn into such a monster. I really pity him if he can't pull himself up, such a great man reduced to this. Whatever tomorrow is another day, my gut pain is gone, I took the day off to rest, I want shampoo my carpet tomorrow, that is therapeutic for me LOL.


That poor child, how does he know about all of this? This exactly why I would never expose this to my child.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

I just have to ask... Would you take him back even after ALL this? Why would you? If so... this is what I will never understand. Why shluld you forever be his doormat. You don't deserve this!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

13th, from alot of overhearing I am gathering, evidently me locking myself in different rooms and going other places in the house wasn't good enough, but it is what it is, I will be getting him into counseling and undoing the damage. I am not being his doormat anymore, he knows exactly what needs to happen in order to ever come home, and I will NOT waver. I am undecided how long I am going to wait, I don't want to put a time limit on it now when I am so back and forth in between anger/sadness/pity. I won't wait forever. Turnera, my girls have been doing alot to help, unfortunately, they aren't the best at it, lol, for many years when I tried to institute rules and chores and whatnot, he never backed me up, told me I was being to hard on them, well dude isn't here now, **** is gonna change, and my girls aren't gonna like it lol. He's not here, I am going to raise my children the way I choose to, chores, earning stuff. Daddy was very permissive, and never backed me up, my girls are in for a very rude awakening. Someone has to step up and raise these kids right, I am tired of being all of their doormat. My inner hardass had been beaten down for so long, I lost her, she's baaaaaack.

By fault of my own, I didn't stand up to my husband and insist that we be harder on them, there were things that he felt I should do, like the chores for the horses, because I am the one that wanted them, well you know what? I had to go and help feed bottle lambs that were my uncles, they weren't mine. It's part of being in a household. If I am cooking them dinner, there's no reason they can't water the horses, am I supposed to cook supper, do dishes, AND do the chores? My husband has gotten so skewed for so long, he doesn't know which end is up anymore. Yes I could have the girls start dinner and I could do the chores, but I am already in the house, and start it at a certain time, and besides if I say you do it, you do it. My eldest has massive attitude for her age, and she doesn't like it that I am calling her on it, this is gonna be an interesting ride.....but hopefully they will respect me for actually helping them shape good habits, and not look back fondly at dad for letting them get away with murder most of the time.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Just make sure you explain everything every step of the way.

The way I did it was "I'm your mom. It's not my job to be your friend. It's my job to raise you to be a happy, confident, capable adult. Part of how I do that is teaching you how to run a household. And if you want to spend the next 5-6 years mad at me, that's your choice. It won't change my love. But it will end up making your high school years stressful - so it's up to you how you deal with the fact that, since I'm not going to change my decisions."

In other words, they need to see your strength AND your love.

You should go to Daughters.com. It is an awesome website for parents of daughters aged 10-18.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I will check it out right now and bookmark it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good! I'm always excited when I get people to try them. It was started by a divorced dad who wanted to find ways to keep connected to his daughters. They used to have a newsletter, and DD20 and I would sit down and read through it, and discuss all the topics, which she was often too reticent to discuss with me on her own. It gave us a way to talk about things.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Good for you Para. My kids always thought I was hard on them. Now both my son and oldest daughter thank me for all the life lessons that has made their live's better and easier as adults. Your kid's may not appreciate what doing now but i guarantee they will later.


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

Para hang in there darlin! You know I'm here for ya... and if you need a night out let me know I'll drive up there and drag your a$$ out! lol


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

LOL Lily, I woke up this morning, and it was weird for the first time I didn't miss him like crazy, why would I? With the way he is treating me, I am starting to think of him as the enemy, which to my psyche, he is. The things he has put me through, to serve his entitled mind, he is looking out for himself for all the wrong reasons, well some anyways. He has put me through hell so many times, why should I miss him.


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

And you shouldn't miss him or the way hes been treating you. I'm glad you aren't missing him this morning! I'm at the point where I just want mine to go away.. all the time.. its only peaceful in my house when hes not here lol and my kids are more well behaved... they actually helped me clean.. i was shocked!! lol


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Great Paramore - focus on you and the rest will follow if it will. Independance and not taking the mistreatment is a major step toward self healing!!!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Para, treat yourself to something nice today.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I took the day off for some more recovery, I need to really clean my house, it's icky. I should say, I do miss him a little, it's not the all consuming missing him that I have been feeling. I know he is gonna regret his choice, but oh well. If my dad comes out, I may have him pick up a dryer so I can actually do laundry in my own house again instead of having to go to sisters, I love getting out of the house to see her, she is just so jaded by men, it kind of brings me down lol.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

We have appliance repair shops locally that sell used ones that have been rebuilt and made fucntional. You can also find them pretty cheap in the paper or craig's list. If you have gas, there is not much that goes wrong with them.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

yeah, I should check into that, I need to go clean my house now LOL, and I don't wanna, but I have to, hehe. I must shampoo the living room carpet, dog puked on it last night lol.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

well, I found the OW boyfriend and I spoke with him tonight.......


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

And....don't leave us hanging! Or PM me if you don't want to say it on here.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

LOL, ok I told him the whole story, of course he was stunned, he asked if I could print out whatever phone records I could so he had proof, and I told him I would get him what I could. He kind of had a feeling something was going on, but couldn't find proof. He isn't going to confront her until I get him the information. I hope this doesn't turn around and bite me in the arse....because I will be doing this to manipulate my husband and try to control him. I am sorry this man has a child with this woman, he has a right to know.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

You did the right thing, both for yourself and the BSH. He deserved to know and your WS has no right to expect you to hide his screwing around and no right to expect you to feel guilty about not doing the right thing. You did the right thing. Ignore his ranting and anger which is sure to come, it's only his attempt to displace the blame that belongs to him. He did it, not you.

Great job girl! You keep making me want more and more to give you a real hug!

Focus on you, your needs and boundaries. Leave him to struggle in the quicksand he created! We'll see how he deals with his OW getting ****ty with him for you outing her!

Revenge wasn't your goal I'm sure


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

No it honestly wasn't, I have been trying to find this guy since the first time. I felt like **** doing it, I really really did. I hope this doesn't backfire on me, but it's a risk I had to take.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Remember what I said about his reaction. His behavior owns the results, not yours.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

yup, like I said he isn't going to confront until I can print out some phone records so he has proof. It is his own fault, I hope it doesn't push them closer together. I had specifically asked that he not communicate with her at all while with our children. My daughter was using his phone, and she told me that the OW texted him, and my girl saw it!!!!!! It is ridiculous. Not the specific text but her name popped up, seriously.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Your 'backfire' will look like this:

You're crazy! 
Everyone KNOWS you're crazy and now you proved it!
I was GOING to come back to YOU, but now you've ruined it!
I'm going to the lawyer TOMORROW and you aren't going to get a DIME from me!
No one is going to speak to you, ever again.
Your kids will know the truth about you and hate you for it. I'll make sure of that.

etc.

Just smile back at him and offer him a cookie.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And paramore...

'push them together'...

YOU have NO CONTROL over what your WH does. Never did. Even when you got married. Never did. If they end up together, they do. Nothing to do with you. All he cares about is making sure HE looks good and YOU can be the bad guy. 

And here's the big secret: The ONLY way you'd ever get him back is if you tell him to get lost because you deserve better. I swear.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

This is bull, my son came in from appearing having fun with his dad, within minutes he is aggressive, saying he hates me, his dad, says I should hate him....he got very pissy last time too. I texted him asking if it all went ok, because G is very aggressive and grumpy, he won't answer back. I want to know why he would be this way all of a sudden, he should answer me it concerns his son!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I know I deserve better, for sure. I know sometimes you need to break it to fix it. I had no choice but to tell this guy, he deserves to know, he told me that he had suspicions. He asked me if I think they have met up, I said I don't believe so, but I could be wrong...I will keep you all updated. I am interested to see how this all goes down. He and her created this new situation, not me and her boyfriend.

I am furious that my daughter had to see her name pop up on his phone with a text message, you would think that he would tell her, I cannot txt with you while I am with my kids. Whatever dude, he has no respect for my wishes whatsoever, he should be focusing on his children, not checking his phone for messages from her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He's probably yelling at his son. Waywards often do.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

hard to say, I think I am gonna call my IC and see if she looked into someone like she said she would for my little guy. He says he had fun, and daddy didn't yell, i just think this is the shuffling back and forth. I hope he pulls his head out, I guess if he doesn't I move on at some point.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Your son is shifting loyalties absed on who is the easiest on him. You husband is surely overcompesating by being super nice and giving. No jobs, no discipline, no parenting. Then Mom is a parent as it should be and kiddo gets grumpy - wants his candy assed dad back. Dad is also probably telling him I'm trying but Mom doesn't want to. Confusing the hell out of him - again, he's defending the one he thinks is saying the right gooody goody things and is to blaming the one who shows backbone. This is precisely why all discussions about your relationship should be kept very simple, non-blaming and with both of you in the room. Your kids can't play monkey in the middle between the two of you - it will destroy them.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Oh - and I'm not saying your making the mistakes. Your lamo slef protecting H is. He's trying to rebuild his deserved rotten image in your son's eyes and the only way he can do it is making you the baddie. It's the lowest form of life that uses a kid this way for their own self esteem.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

oh absolutely, all I asked when they got home was did you have fun? They said yes. I am the one who has to deal with the tears, the temper tantrums, while at daddys sisters they get to watch movies and have fun. I can guarantee that he isn't telling him that daddy is the one who is trying, if he was trying, he'd give the two bit **** up and commit to working on the marriage. When he started his crap about mom and dad hate him, i assured him that we both love him very much, and nothing will ever change that, he calmed down after awhile and was normal. I want the kids to have a good time with their dad, I just hate that I am the one having to put in all of the grunt work, bathing, dealing with all of the issues. He told me last week he would talk to them, but of course it didn't happen. I won't let it destroy my children, they come before me. I know eventually I will be ok, but I won't let this destroy them.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

I'm sure you won't. You are great woman. I'm sorry you have to deal with such self serving selfish man


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

paramore said:


> I won't let it destroy my children, they come before me. I know eventually I will be ok, but I won't let this destroy them.


I am reading Helping Your Kids Cope With Divorce the Sandcastles Way right now. Specifically because of the reason you mention above.

Even if you manage to recover your marriage, this book is an exceptional resource for putting yourself in your childs eyes and understanding what this fighting/divorce/infidelity looks like to them and how to help them cope with the potentially nuclear effects this can have on their development and ability to have healthy realtionships with you, your husband and other people as they grow into adulthood.

Reviews
_"Of all the how-to advice about divorce on the market, the best is probably wrapped up in the book Helping Your Kids Cope with Divorce the Sandcastles Way. It's sympathetic, practical and loving; it covers all the problems faced by children of divorce; and it gives an excellent rundown of the reactions you can expect, age by age." -- The Washington Post_


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

Thanks for the suggestion on the book. I just ordered it. Paramore, there are used books on there for about a buck. Shipping, tax, and all came to about $5.50.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I will have to look into ordering that this afternoon thanks for the suggestion pit. Thanks for the thumbs up 8


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Just a question, I am not saying I am going to the courthouse and filing today, just entertaining the idea. He's been gone almost two weeks....if he wants out he is gonna do it one way or another, just wondering how long I give him a chance to decide. I realize if I file, he will say "go ahead if that's what you want" If I filed would I be doing it too soon? I mean I want to save this, but I don't know if I have the strength to keep fighting. This also comes with me being physically beat down with not feeling well, it started getting icky again yesterday, and I am going back to dr today. Just curious for your opinions.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

paramore said:


> Just a question, I am not saying I am going to the courthouse and filing today, just entertaining the idea. He's been gone almost two weeks....if he wants out he is gonna do it one way or another, just wondering how long I give him a chance to decide. I realize if I file, he will say "go ahead if that's what you want" If I filed would I be doing it too soon? I mean I want to save this, but I don't know if I have the strength to keep fighting. This also comes with me being physically beat down with not feeling well, it started getting icky again yesterday, and I am going back to dr today. Just curious for your opinions.


If you want to file because you're feeling depressed, I think you should wait. If you want to file because you think that the changes that lie ahead will lead you to a happier existence than continuing to fight for your relationship, file. 

You're the only one who knows when his indecision becomes a deal breaker. I think it's great to have a timeline, but it should be self imposed.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

I agree with where i am. Your statement that you still want to work it says no don't. If you think it may motivate him to make a decision, he will take the easy way out and say go. Personally I think cutting off all communication stops the process of trying to work through things. Are you seeing an MC yet? If you want to motivate him to try, flat out ask him what it will take for that to start happening and don't be get his face about it be calm. Can I suggest you read the thread I started in the Mens Clubhouse called manning up does not mean abuse? I come from a different approach to this. I think it will help you to understand why I feel the way I do about not shutting down.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Even if you file, there is still a waiting period and you can always call it off right before the final hearing or interlocutory period, or put it on hold. When I divorced my first wife, the divorce wasn't final until the 6 month interlocutory period after the divorce hearing. During that time, the divorce could be turned off.

Find out from your lawyer about the divorce laws in your state/country. From what I've read, depending on our state, it can be a long process, and that period can provide you the buffer in which the marriage can be saved.

You have to entertain the possibility that he may NEVER come out of the fog. Some never do.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

You and I have both told our spouses repeatedly how much we want to save our marriages. I think they have both used that as an excuse to continue their adulterous relationships. 

Paramore and Hurting will always be there for us. Let's see how this other thing works out first. If it doesn't, they'll take us back.

I don't know what to tell you. I've struggled with this as well. Eli-zor told me not to bite the bait when she told me she wanted a divorce a few days ago. I'm going to take that advice. 

Filing the papers may make him finally realize he can lose you. That may get his head out of his rear. I don't know.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

paramore said:


> just wondering how long I give him a chance to decide.


He has already decided. His actions are clear. He's walked away, sure he looks back every now and then to make sure your still standing there. His words and the brief moments of indecision you see are the natural tendency of a weak and flawed person to want a backup plan. 

He has cheated on you, lied to you, and disregarded your value as a person. This is your _husband_ that has done this. Do you think he's suddenly a guy who has the strength and character to cut this off clean? be a man, spare you anymore hurt and follow through with his clear decision? F*ck no. Do what he doesn't have the strength to do, remove yourself as a backup. Don't just stand there, blow him a kiss, wave goodbye, turn your back and start walking your path. He can't come with you. 

File.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

It takes two to tango.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

You are in a different position to HT. As he is out of the house file for legal separation it should be quicker than a divorce , ensure the monies he owes is paid and you are protected and go very dark, no niceties with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

I agree ELi-Zor - she needs to protect herself legally and financially. I'm not suggesting niceties - just blunt questions.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

This was suggestion I made to disbelief. Some of things you need to consider.
"Personally I'd execute the separation agreement immediately after you've seen a lawyer to make sure it's legal. Make sure it includes child support, child insurance, 1/2 the mortgage and home upkeep and all of the other expenses you think you will incur. Visitation/custody and a payment schedule and estimated amount of the items I listed. Also include an end date at which time you'll file. How long can you keep this up? 1 month, 2, 3? If you think it's going to go no where I'd keep it short so you can start to get on with your life. I'm not pushing divorce, but she needs to know it's coming and soon. There also needs to be rules about contact while with the kids. If she's using your summer place, I don't think restrictions on what can happen there are unreasonable either since you may want to spend time there with the kids yourself and shouldn't have to make sure no one else is there. Those are the things a lawyer can tell you if they are enforcable. If she balks at it, tell her to get her own apartment - the drive is stupid anyway. Separate credit cards, bank accounts, finances, online accounts, phone accounts...everything. If she asks why, it's because you are protecting yourself financially and legally and preparing for divorce because you can't live with the present disrespecting limbo situation she is leaving you in. She is continuing to try and control the situation by refusing transparency and stringing it out. She has to know you won't stand for it anymore. I'm sorry it didn't go differently. Time to move ahead in my mind. Get on with life and find a woman who can show you the love and respect you deserve. Just don't go looking until the D is final. Discuss with the lawyer a negotiated settlement and if he will do it and how much. You have given your all and can walk away from this with your head up knowing you did everything you could and a whole lot more. You know I wouldn't suggest this if I thought she was truly remorseful and cared about you enough that it would work out. She's too self centered and selfish."

Side note in your case Paramore, if he was the sole income, those percentages would change in court to a higher number in your favor. SInce you appear to do babysitting which I'm sure he will reveal in court, you need to consider that when talking to your lawyer about your percentages.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

paramore said:


> , just wondering how long I give him a chance to decide. .



Para... you need to decide what YOU want. Stop basing your life about what he wants, when he wants, how he wants, how long to wait. You need to know what YOU want, state it to him and if he can't meet you halfway and isn't willing to do the work, follow it up with your boundary, which means not staying in a one-sided marriage. That would mean ending it.



paramore said:


> , I realize if I file, he will say "go ahead if that's what you want"


If he does say that, then it means he was never committed to you and your marriage and wasn't even wanting to fight for you. He has been doing this back and forth for awhile with you... yet his actions have remained the same: lies to you about contact with OW (multiple women) and refuses to cut it off w/ them. 

So only you can decide when to end the waiting game but I was told: whenever you're waiting for someone to change.... you are wasting your time.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

pit-of-my-stomach said:


> *he has already decided*. His actions are clear. He's walked away, sure he looks back every now and then to make sure your still standing there. *his words and the brief moments of indecision you see are the natural tendency of a weak and flawed person to want a backup plan. *
> 
> he has cheated on you, lied to you, and disregarded your value as a person. This is your _husband_ that has done this. Do you think he's suddenly a guy who has the strength and character to cut this off clean? Be a man, spare you anymore hurt and follow through with his clear decision? F*ck no. *do what he doesn't have the strength to do, remove yourself as a backup*.


this!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

paramore said:


> Just a question, I am not saying I am going to the courthouse and filing today, just entertaining the idea. He's been gone almost two weeks....if he wants out he is gonna do it one way or another, just wondering how long I give him a chance to decide. I realize if I file, he will say "go ahead if that's what you want" If I filed would I be doing it too soon? I mean I want to save this, but I don't know if I have the strength to keep fighting. This also comes with me being physically beat down with not feeling well, it started getting icky again yesterday, and I am going back to dr today. Just curious for your opinions.


Way too soon unless you're doing it to ensure that you get funding to take care of kids. If you feel he will bail and not pay to take care of his kids, file a separation order to institute mandated child support. 

Otherwise, filing is just manipulation on your part. Not a great way to save a marriage.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Yeah, I love all of this advice. Right now, it wouldn't be so much as out of depression, but just not sure if I can hold on. I go back and forth, most of me thinks it would be a decision made out of pure emotion, such as anger, disappointment, etc. On the other hand, today I have no feelings towards him. 8yr, I would like very much to have some communication with him, but that would go against the NC regarding contact only with the kids, he would have to be the one to initiate communication. I would love for him to suggest at least one MC apt, but he has to want it, regardless of the outcome. My big thing is, if it ends now, it will end badly, I don't want unfinished emotional business, on either end. 

Here in SD, there is no legal separation, and there is a 60 day waiting period. I know he wouldn't bail on the kids, he is still depositing all of his paychecks in our joint account, now the problem is his spending on alcohol, eating out, and stuff. I do know deep down it would be too soon, but then sometimes I feel like, I want to start healing from this rather sooner than later if that makes any sense. I know that if I filed it wouldn't have an outcome I wanted, I would be doing it for the "just get it done and over with" reason. I know I won't today, I am just simply weighing options.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

paramore said:


> I do know deep down it would be too soon, but then sometimes I feel like, I want to start healing from this rather sooner than later if that makes any sense.


That makes perfect sense to me. I often feel the same way. 

I believe that is what the 180 does. It starts the healing process. It helps you to start focusing on you. That sounds a little selfish, but I don't believe it is. You have focused on him and the marriage. By starting to focus on you, I believe that starts the healing process.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

I agree with hurtinginTN on the focusing on you. What I don't agree with is NC - IF and that is a big if, he willing to talk intelligently about what it will take FOR BOTH OF YOU to start reconciling, it prevents finding out if he has changed at all. If he just dances when asked this question, just say sorry I bothered you and go dark again. Sometimes a single question will open the floodgates but don't get your hopes up and don't go beyond the single question.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

paramore said:


> Yeah, I love all of this advice. Right now, it wouldn't be so much as out of depression, but just not sure if I can hold on.


Katherine Hepburn was in love with Spencer Tracy. But he was Catholic, and married. He was never able to divorce. So he remained married to a woman he didn't love. So they spent the rest of their lives loving each other, from afar. You can hold on. Your marriage isn't over yet. Don't make decisions in the throes of great emotion. Rarely works out well.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

paramore said:


> I know he wouldn't bail on the kids, he is still depositing all of his paychecks in our joint account, now the problem is his spending on alcohol, eating out, and stuff.


PLEASE don't make the common mistake of believing this. If there's one truth to men (or women) having affairs, it is this: The man you KNEW wouldn't abandon his kids...isn't there any more. At least not until OW is out of the picture and he goes through withdrawal and the fog clears.

THAT man is gone. THIS man will protect his addict connection. And if paying for kids, or seeing kids, gets in the way of feeding that addiction, you can be damm sure he will choose his addiction over his kids.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

turnera said:


> PLEASE don't make the common mistake of believing this. If there's one truth to men (or women) having affairs, it is this: The man you KNEW wouldn't abandon his kids...isn't there any more. At least not until OW is out of the picture and he goes through withdrawal and the fog clears.
> 
> THAT man is gone. THIS man will protect his addict connection. And if paying for kids, or seeing kids, gets in the way of feeding that addiction, you can be damm sure he will choose his addiction over his kids.



This is proven by the fact that he chose to resume communication after I told him point blank that if I found any attempt to communicate that I would ask him to leave. If he really cared about how I felt, or how it would affect the kids if it happened again, he wouldn't do it. He keeps saying "the kids will adjust, the kids will fall into line" if it doesn't work out, it's like WTF dude???? Why should they have to pay the price of his infidelity? It shows me that as much as he loves them, the fact that he choose this over really reconciling with their mother, that this woman is more important, he can say that she isn't until he is blue in the face, he can keep saying that he needs time to be able to make good decisions, but I know the truth. You need to get your head on straight, you can do that at home, and attend MC and IC. This disgusting symptom of our marriage is more important to him right now, and it's incredibly sad. But whatever.

Went back to doctor, he is treating me for something completely different now, praying it will work.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

paramore said:


> He keeps saying "the kids will adjust, the kids will fall into line" if it doesn't work out, it's like WTF dude???? Why should they have to pay the price of his infidelity?


That is the part I understand the least. If the WS doesn't care about how it hurts the LS, that's one thing. Why don't they look at what their actions do to the innocent children? It doesn't get more selfish than that, in my opinion. Not just in your husband's case, but every parent that breaks up a marriage for a fantasy world with another person.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

I hope you feel better Paramore. Being sick on top of everything else is really hard. Keep your head up and be proud of the person you are! You are not missing half of yourself and definitely not the better half. You are a great person all by yourself and will survive this. You will also find someone who is really worth who you are and will love you in ways you don't think possible right now. I'd make myself a candidate if I could. I'm probably too old for you anyway!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

LOL you are too sweet 8year. I am actually feeling great for the first time in 3 weeks now, hopefully it keeps up. Watching Knocked Up, love that movie. I actually thought about calling up a couple of girls and hitting a local sports bar and sipping on water, but I'd best make sure that the meds are taking effect first, maybe tomorrow night. 

Oh, yeah I know he isn't my better half. My better half just kicked in once these meds seemed to start working. It's nice not feeling anything for him, not missing him, not really caring what the **** he is doing right now. I am pretty sure I will wake up and feel the same way tomorrow, quirky weird girl is back!!!! lol

I am 33, no spring chicken LOL!!!


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

A very hot age. I'm 52!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

52 is the new 32 I hear! lol


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

I haven't lost my zest for the great things in life yet!


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

29
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

hey, you are as young as you feel and act!


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## remakingmylife (Apr 18, 2011)

I think there should be a rule that your "true age" equals your chronological age divided by two.

Therefore, 52 would actually be 26!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

there ya go!


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Your only young once, but you can be immature for a lifetime!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I just wanted to tell you para that I know you can get through this. I hope you get to feeling better soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Working on it pidge, I hope you are doing well


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm working on it as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

ok my daughter was using my phone, it's almost 130 evidently he texted me saying Goodbye J, it's over. WTF???????? Dumping me via text message? What the hell do I do now? I haven't contacted him or anything.


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## krismimo (Jan 26, 2011)

Para, your sying he broke off the marriage throught text? If that is the case please don't try and work it out with him anymore. He is done and he has checked out, to be frank I'm not surprised that he did that, it's not like he is doing anything to gain your trust and support.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

yes, he sent me a text, his ****ing wife of almost 13 ****ing years!!!!!! No guts to come to me himself, this man is a monster. I will be seeing what I can do to gather up money from somewhere and contacting a lawyer on monday.


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## krismimo (Jan 26, 2011)

I'am so sorry para honey, ditch that a********* and try to concentrate on yourself, buy yourself a nice bottle of wine sit outside if you can or after the kids go to bed have your girls spend the night over a friends house if they can, you seriously need you time right now to digest everything and figure out step by step what to do next.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I think I have been mentally prepping myself for awhile, I am just curious the sudden change of heart, oh wait, guess the boyfriend must have confronted OW, and she cried to him, oh well, the serial cheating OW can have my serial cheating husband, they deserve each other.


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## krismimo (Jan 26, 2011)

Oh wow that is crazy I didn't know that! So the bf confronted the other OW wow. Just DO YOU.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

No I am only assuming lol, that's the only thing I can think of that would bring the abrupt change of heart, oh well, he deserved to know. They created this mess, not me or him.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Stay dark. Don't say a thing and don't respond. Now he's faced with ownership of his OW and it's about to get real ugly for him with a real sweet taste of reality of what she's really like. The makeup is coming off the barnacle laden wench! Doesn't really matter, You're already Gone! Reminds me of the Eagles tune!


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

"Already Gone"

Well, I heard some people talkin' just the other day 
And they said you were gonna put me on a shelf 
But let me tell you I got some news for you 
And you'll soon find out it's true 
And then you'll have to eat your lunch all by yourself 
'Cause I'm already gone 
And I'm feelin' strong 
I will sing this vict'ry song, woo, hoo,hoo,woo,hoo,hoo 

The letter that you wrote me made me stop and wonder why 
But I guess you felt like you had to set things right 
Just remember this, my girl, when you look up in the sky 
You can see the stars and still not see the light (that's right) 

And I'm already gone 
And I'm feelin' strong 
I will sing this vict'ry song, woo, hoo,hoo,woo, hoo,hoo 

Well I know it wasn't you who held me down 
Heaven knows it wasn't you who set me free 
So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains 
And we never even know we have the key 

But me, I'm already gone 
And I'm feelin' strong 
I will sing this vict'ry song 
'Cause I'm already gone 
Yes, I'm already gone 
And I'm feelin' strong 
I will sing this vict'ry song 
'Cause I'm already gone 
Yes, I'm already gone 
Already gone 
All right, nighty-night


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

All this has done is saved you a long life of unhappiness. He made your decision for you by showing you his true colors. 

Someday you'll meet a guy with true integrity na dyou won't bellieve how special he makes you feel. 

Cos that's what real men do.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm so sorry Para! Take care of you and your children and lean on us here if you need support.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Oh I know, I kind of have mentally prepped myself. My mom keeps saying the papers aren't final the papers aren't final, this is true. He's been so wishy washy, a month from now he could change his mind, but I just don't think I can say ok, I mean he texted me like a 12 year old child. I asked him if we could talk about this, he asked for a fb chat, I said face to face or nothing, he said not today. I am married to a complete coward. I asked him if he meant it, he said he wanted to to what was right for once, that he thinks this is the best for the both of us. I said what right do you have to decide what's right for me? You don't know if this is right for me or not. I said now I need to figure out what to do with my 6 pups, my kids have to lose their home because of your inability to find a shred of determination to at least give it a try and give it time. He actually said he did give it time, hah! 2 months home isn't enough time when you thrust your wife into an impossible situation, and restarted an affair, he is so full of horse****.

I did say to him, thank you for being a man and doing it by text, I thank you for that LOL. He didn't even have enough guts to come over and say we need to talk, it's just pathetic, disgusting and pitiful.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Strength Para - you have it, use it. Plan for the worst, if the best comes then see where it leads. Just don't hold onto too much hope. You deserve better and don't deserve to see good start and then have your hopes dashed again. IF good does come, you need to approach it with a so what strength attitude.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I don't have hope, absolutely zero. I spoke with the boyfriend this morning, and he hasn't confronted her yet, so he made this decision drunk, but whatever. It's his thing, I just need to figure out where to go from here, he has said nothing about filing, we need to speak face to face about that at least but he refuses to. We need to at least speak about the finances.

I don't even ****ing care if he exists or not right now, I just don't care, I just want out of this house with my kids I want to move on NOW.

I am contemplating shutting off his internet card which is in my name, both internet cards are in my name, I need him to drop off this other phone that is on my plan as well. I am chuckling at how pissed he will be if he sits down after work to log onto the internet and he can't get on!!!!! I should do it shouldn't I, I mean he said it's over, so shouldn't I start separating stuff now?


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Ugh, the fact that he won't come over and even face me means I get to tell the kids do I tell them now or wait?


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

He is out of the house and should be paying you , anything that helps him cheat you remove , cancel his internet card and phone. If you are calm and in control talk to your kids if not wait for another day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

NO - leave the kids out of it until it's final as in the papers are processed and it's all done. No sense putting them on the rollercoaster until then. As far as sperating finances , accounts, etc., if they are in your name, just shut them down. You don't need the financial liability. Same goes for the phone. Call them and see if there is an early termination fee. If there is , see if the service can be shut off and the account remain active as a minimum cost account until it expires - something like an emergency only kids account with no minutes, internet access whatever. On my plan that is $10 a month. If it's 12 months till the contract expires - $120. If the cancellation fee is $150 - then it makes sense to let it run out on minimum but deactivated. I think you'l understand once you talk to them. Before you do anyhting, open new bank accounts and kill the credit cards first - get new ones and pay off the old ones if possible. If paying them off is not possible, tell them you are separated and want the accounts put on hold so no more charges are accepted. Also contact all three credit agencies and put a fraud alert on your accounts with notification you are separated. That will prevent him from opening new cards or loans unless it's in his name only. You have to do this all at once or he could go out and run up debt and clean out the bank accounts. If you have credit card debt, you need to separate the charges that are not for the kids or home and are solely his. After you do the rest, send him a registered return receipt requested letter listing what he owes and notifying him everyhting has been shut down and separated. If you have debt, do not release any money to him until all has been paid off and a surplus remains to make mortgage payments. Start making the list I described earlier and get a lawyer now. Have your plan laid out and review it with him before you discuss anything with your husband. Close the barn door now on accounts and credit.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

The other phone the straight talk he pays for, all of our money, (he makes most of it) is still getting deposited into our joint account, we have a second one that I think I will move the bulk of the money in and divy it out right before bills are to come out to protect me and the kids for now, it's saturday, so not a whole lot I can do on the lawyer front right now.
The phone I am going to cancel isn't being used right now, that was the one he was using to cheat, he went and got another, and txted me the number, so he couldn't be spied on lol. What a guy, ending it by text message.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Does anyone know if there is someone with legal experience or experience with this that can pipe in and make suggestions to paramore?


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

yeah, with att there is a 30 day opt out where you can terminate and return the phones and cards at no charge. I will keep my internet card, I may shut down my own main phone and get one of those straight talk phones myself as it will save alot of money. My bill alone will the cell and internet card will be around 120, that's alot of savings.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Start by making a list of Credit cards and bank accounts, online accoutns, etc. etc.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Trim wherever you can.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

I hate to say it but that includes cable tv. Go to radio shack and buy an antenna. Free tv!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

paramore said:


> ok my daughter was using my phone, it's almost 130 evidently he texted me saying Goodbye J, it's over. WTF???????? Dumping me via text message? What the hell do I do now? I haven't contacted him or anything.


Wow. Via a text? My bet is he was drunk. Girl, you are so much better than this. It reminds me of Sex & the City ep where Carrie's boyf broke up with him via post-it. I would not deal with his shennanigans anymore. He has shown you over and over again where his loyalty lies--and it's not to you. 



krismimo said:


> Para, your sying he broke off the marriage throught text? If that is the case please don't try and work it out with him anymore.


:iagree:

Re: the kids..if they ask, you can tell them that mom and dad have separated but you are there for them no matter what. Be strong for them. They will look to you for guidance/a role model. 

You are 33. You are young. You may feel "old" but you're not. You have been with this fool for 13 yrs now so he is basically all you know. But life is just starting up for you baby. Just thinking of this as one chapter of your life closing and the other one is just about to start.

Like that American Beauty movie says at the beginning "It's never too late to get it back."


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Unless your car is leased or new and requires full collision, dropo that to $1000 deductible or no collision!


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Think about every expense you have. If it's not absolutely necessary to survive, cut it.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

yup I am gonna start doing that, like Ireally don't NEED internet or a cell phone, but they sure are handy! No satellite? How would I watch vampire diaries??? lol


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I would cut off his phone and cell. You could use that money for something else. He wants out and wants his affairs, let him have it but not on your dime


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Do you have a mortgage on the house or are you renting? Can you live with Mom or someone else and put it up for sale?


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Cell phone cheap enough if you sue it wisely. Internet - can you share a connection with a neighbor via a wireless router and pay 1/2?


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Think it through, make the calls to check on everything then make the decisions. I'm not trying to overwhelm you, just get you thinking.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

oh I have been thinking about this for awhile, it's possible that if I move, I'd like to move into the apt complex my sister has, she has a wifi hotspot I could just use, if I was close enough. We have a first and second mortgage that are pretty big, so I am not sure what to do there yet.

My biggest concern besides my kids is my dogs, chronological order 14, 11, 10, 8, 6, 5, I don't know what to do with them, I don't want to lose them too! I have had them for so long. My biggest love is my 8 year old lab Tyler, I couldn't live without him, my mini horses I know I could sell, but I love my dogs, they are my other kids.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

You may be upside down meaning you owe more than you will get for the house. Talk to a realtor. Talk is free.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

oh I know we are lol, I am not sure how to deal with the house will need some sprucing up, with money we don't have, I will start all of this crap on monday, I doubt I could find a place where I could have 6 dogs lol.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Sorry but he dogs may have to go. If you know your upside down, ask the realtor or the attorney what is the best way to get out from under it.


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## krismimo (Jan 26, 2011)

@Paramore my favorite dog was named Tyler he died right before me and the hubby got married, he was the smartest dog I have ever met. LOL Sex and the city I remember that when carried got dumped by a that guy BURGER who was the jealous writer, but in his defense I would dump superficial materialistic whining gold digging carrie any day. Para I knew this was going to happen, but your strong and you will get through this the ironuc part about this whole situation is once you acknowledge your problems and move on it becomes easier to deal with.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Oh I have mentally prepped myself for this, so it's not so shocking. He fb'd me saying he'd send me 200 a week, let's hold off on telling the kids, I am keeping fb status as married for now (him) go ahead and cancel my internet card and att phone, (him), he is cashing his retirement out and giving me 7500k that he thinks will buy me enough time in the house to find more kids so I can live out here on my own, there's no way even with child support. He is STILL responsible for making the house payment and second mortgage payment, his name is still on there, we cannot afford to maintain two households, we have to stay married for a fair amount of time for financial reasons. He is not thinking realistically. Whatever.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

You should step back and firm up a plan for yourself.

Make the separation legal this ensures he pays all his dues.

Do find an intermediary that supports you , this is for your well being to protect you from all this drama, you do not require any contact with him not even for the children. Draw up a schedule and keep a journal , if he misses his children's visitations keep a log and go for full custody. His behaviour will change once you go dark and reality sets in, some waywards crack others well they had no intention of returning and pride or lack of remorse gets in the way, they have to self destruct on their own. 

What I am proposing is a Plan B on the MB lines. It buys you time to think clearly and take steps for you and your children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I do not have legal separation here unfortunately. I have a notebook that I have started, not much there, my daughter unfortunately deleted my cell log with the txts that I was keeping as proof. I am in hardcore plan b here. What do I do when we really need to speak of financial issues? His work schedule is wonky as heck, I do not want to keep him from his children, the girls don't seem to care, but I worry about my baby boy. I did text him that since we have to stay married for awhile for financial reasons, we should keep things as they are for now, he agreed. Who would be a really good intermediary? I am not holding out hope by any means, he is done right now, but as my mom said I can drag my feet.....he has made it sound that he is not going to file. I am going to think more tomorrow, I have thought enough for today, I thought about going out with one of my girls and having a few, not a good idea, gonna chill with the kiddies, play some wow perhaps, and listen to youtube.

I think we will end up selling the house, my little hobby farm, some of my pups are so old no one will want them, is it appropriate if I put them to sleep? I can't part with my big fat Tyler, I just can't.

He is self destructing before my eyes, and it makes me sad, but he isn't my problem anymore.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

I didn't mean to be cold about the dogs. I have a lab that I got after my one of 13 years I had to put down. Putting him down was the hardest thing I ever did and I would have real hard time giving up Charlie, my present nutcase choc. lab. They are family as well. Unfortunately most apartments won't allow pets.

Do you how much he had in retirement - was 7500 all of it? Being upside down on the mortgage and having enough to support the kids will take everything he has.

I agree you need to take the time to get it together. Just don't procrastinate. Protect yourself.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

You can try to find a friend to take the dogs. There are also rescue groups if any of them are purebreds.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I will have to start looking into that as much as it kills me 8years.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

I feel bad for you and your in my prayers. I'm not a real religous person, but with the A, I started going to church regularly and asking god for his help. When things started to get better I thanked him in prayers. There no athiests in a foxhole!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Don't worry about your kids' relationship with him right now. You're in crisis mode and that relationship will shake out in the end.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

On the 180 and manning up, can i suggest you read the thread Manning up should not be abuse! in the men's club. You will see my opinion and others without us hijacking your thread to debate it. I have done a very long line by line opinion of the 180 today I think will help you understand why I don't agree with it.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I will check that thread out later dude, gotta go do laundry now eeek!!!


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Hi P. I'm really sorry to hear what happened.

My first thought is to block his number for texts and calls and from Facebook messages and chatting if you can. Don't block him from your page. I think it only right to keep your marital status visible. My point is to force a face-to-face.

Regarding finances, very dumb for him to take $ out of retirement for tax purposes. That should be a last resort.

Regarding house require him to buy you out. He wants the divorce so let him deal with the bs.

Keep in mind that since you were married more than 10 years, come social security time, you will still be eligible under his name. But do check on that to be sure. Doesn't help now but you also want to make sure you get it.

Kids. You need to sort out who gets to declare whom for tax purposes. It requires filling out a form for the non-custodial parent if you let him do so. I gave my ex- 2 years of both kids coz he made more money, then 1 kid the 3rd and none the forth.

Look up the child support formula for your state. He should be paying that now. And. Think about maintenance for you. Again, over 10 years buys you something there. Insist on it. It is tax deductible for him and taxable to you. Child support is neither at the federal level. So, ask for more in cp than maintenance because of those factors.

He should maintain enough life insurance to cover the entire amount of cp as well as long term disability, with you as the beneficiary. You want to be sure the kids are covered. Shoot for age of 22 for the end of cp. Factor in what hell need to contribute toward college costs, too. At that point you may wish to return 1 deduction to him, just to be nice.

As for now, do not pay for anything that is exclusively for him. Anything that is in both names is negotiated. You can't stop contributing coz that will probably make negotiating harder lately.

As for how long to wait to file, you may want to consider that you filing head of household might work in your favor. You prob have enough info to estimate what works best using an online estimator. Also remember to figure out who gets to deduct interest on your house. If he has to buy you out, moot point.

The day he moved out started the clock on separation. 

Can't think of anything else right now. Do check my tax facts.

I'm not sure he's serious about divorce since he won't see you. Might be afraid to admit the drunken bravado. Thus the stalling on kids. Don't know which way I feel for you. He prob has a character flaw worthy of divorce. But sometimes ppl grow up. The last thing you want is for him to stay for economic purposes. Promotes more cheating.

Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Btw, I totally agree with 180. I really think this board does as much damage as good in that it forces divorce, but promotes individual strength. I think in the old days people had a lot more patience in working on their marriages, even in the face of cheating. The hard 180 only makes the other person feel forced into a corner. They don't have the perception of free will. It is their spouses way or the highway. It comes down to a battle for control. Bad for marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Oh yeah. Don't take lump sum from him. Save that for negotiating with lawyers. It may appear that money is all you want and it isn't. You want maintenance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Clip clop go read my line by line eval of the full 180. I don't think anyone knows the full story it proposes. I think it's great you laid out all of the specific issues and tax consequences of D. I wish there was a thread (or maybe there is) specifically devoted to what people have learned about he legal and financial surrounding separationa nd D..


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Sorry 8 years. I meant to say I agree with 8, not with 180. I think 180 makes divorce more likely in most cases.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

It's like Plan B a last stand used to help the BS and prepare them for the final step. There are many occations when the 180 or Plan B work, a lot depends on the WS's reaction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Let's not turn this into a 180 debate. Lord knows there is plenty advocation for it on this site.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Take to thred eli - I don't want to hijack others threads.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Looks like you boys have been having fun when I was away LOL!!!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I kept the fb message on him regarding the money, I am keeping the ball in my court for sure, not gonna get accused of being money grubby, it is going into a savings account and just sitting there.


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

OMG Para! Ending it via text?!! Thats just ... LAME!! I thought my stbx was immature... well.. mine didn't even talk to me all not even via text, until I started moving on with my life lol

Get that lawyer ASAP.. protect yourself.. be there for your kiddos.. I know its tough, but girl you are worth so much more! F*CK HIM AND THE WH*RE HE RODE OUT ON!

Sorry.. im a litttle tempermental today lol


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

I'll say Lilyana - I loved it!!!


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

LOL I'm so sick of cheaters and wh*res.. it just spews out of me.. I would post what I really think on facebook, but my gramma reads that, and I don't want to offend her. So I come on here and make you guys listen to it. 

I just found my stbx has a myspace account, and hes trolling for sex on it lol.. hope the OW likes sharing.. I hope he does too since she has a boyfriend... hahahahahaha.. bunch o' morons!

Para we are SOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH BETTER THAN THIS! 

Ready to have a bon fire? I'm gonna come up there, its only a few hours drive, and we will burn our stbx's stuff together!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Hellz yeah LOL!!! I got a new phone today new phone number girl, I will pm it to you on fb, I figure I'll shut down the att one, I got my own straight talk, I figure new phone, new phone number to go with my new life. I am gonna clean my house soon, but I have an interesting story to tell ya all later.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Lilyana, why don't you start a fake account and entice him then dump him hard?

Good for you para. Pack up his stuff and put in the garage though. Give him a week to get it or you will drop it at good will. You don't need the money spent on new clothes for the bum!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

yuppers fo sho. I have entertained the idea of a facebook acct and adding him and flirting with him and then BAM!!! wouldn't that just be immature though? lol darn it I could have used the new number


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

I've thought about doing that.. but why? I already know hes up to no good.. now that hes not in my life do I really care? nope... it would be nice to get even that way tho... just to say.. "guess what this is your wife a$$clown.. and you have been flirting with ME for the last week.. hahahaha"


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

LOL!!!! I thought to take it as far as set up a "meeting" and have him be like ohhhh ****.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

What I said, I wasn't clear. Reread what I said, with a difference pause. If it is unclea r I will explain it tomow Ellen I have a keyboard.
None of what I mean is,abt money. Phone keyboard are problematic
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Aaah. Phones suck. Ignore me til tomooroq
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Clipclop LOL!!!!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I am getting irritated, I have texted him to make sure he got my new number with this new carrier, he said last night he hadn't received my texts. I dont want to shut the other one off until I know he is able to get a hold of me concerning the kids, seems like other people are getting my text messages, well I think so, I messaged my mom this morning to make sure and I haven't heard from her, but my sister and brother in laws got them, so I dunno. I would hate to shut off the other phone and if for some reason homie is telling the truth and he isn't getting my texts, I would hate for him not to be able to contact me regarding the children, I do not want to get smacked with something saying I wouldn't stay in contact with him regarding the visitation of the kids and whatnot.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

How about old fashioned phonecalls?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

he won't answer the phone when I have tried to call lol, everything he has done since I kicked him out 2 weeks ago is by text, he won't speak to me on phone or come face me in person.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

He's getting them. I assume you gave him the number by voice? If so be done with it, he's gaming your emotions.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Side note, he won't get them if his phone is off. Also not your problem if he has the number.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

So what if he won't respond. He can't claim you didn't call since the record will clearly show you did.

No texts. He can grow up or not. His choice. But his lawyer will tell him to answer the phone and stop being an idiot.

You have to stop playing by his rules.

Block his texts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

This is a completely new carrier, not sure if I can actually, well, I know that his sister has the new number, so if anything he can get it from her, I am done with his little head games. If he txts me about the kids, I will simply respond phone call please or ignore them, leaning toward the ignoring. If he refuses to acknowledge me trying to make sure he has a way to contact me, whatever. On the other hand, I have read that this carrier isn't necessarily the best when it comes to this stuff sometimes. Seems others are getting them though....LOL, whatever, he's being stoopid, sometimes you can't fix that, in the words of Ron White.

I did not give the number by voice, as he will not answer if I call, so I figured I would text it to him to be polite, I mean I didn't HAVE to give him the new number lol, it was the right thing to do as the co parent of his children. As I said, I know the sister he is staying with has the number, she confirmed that she got my text with the new digits this morning, so at least I know there is at least access.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

ok, I have been texting the wrong number LOL!!!! Poor little old lady


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

ALso have someone else text it besides you so he gets it twice then forget it.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

no kidding, I realized I was off by one number, and I was texting this little old lady, I called then number to make sure, and this lady is like hello? I was like I am sooooo sorry!!!! LOL, I got his number now. But get this I got a text from his sister this morning regarding the first visit over there a week or so ago, where the son was calling her a ***** and evidently I said that, which I did not. This is what my husband told her. I responded back that I did not call her any types of names at all, and then I explained to her all of the things my son said when he came home that night, how he said daddy hated me, said I was stupid, etc, which I knew not to be true. Just a very hurt, confused little boy. I then told her that her brother needs to tell the whole story, not just one little piece.

I then politely texted my husband this, I would appreciate that when you tell your sister these kinds of things, that you would be honest and tell the whole thing, now I have someone that I care about very much thinking that I was tearing her down in front of her nephew. I added that this behavior you are engaging in isn't about me, this is your thing, not mine. Please refrain from making me your scapegoat for this behavior and please stop demonizing me. I will not accept responsibility for your actions, thank you. I left it at that. It makes me angry he is saying this stuff to his sister and leaving her thinking this stuff, whatever. As I said I politely texted him that and left it at that.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Did his sister accept your explanation and did she have any responses? Did you tell her what your son said to your WS about hating him and hitting him? I'm sure this provoked a response from him blaming you and saying other things about you to your son which is probably why your son reacted the way he did when he came home. Some how, you or his sister need to get the point across to your WS that the kids aren't weapons. ANd when one of then reacts the way your son did to him, there needs to be a conversation between the two of you about why and not a reaction back to your son. That's making him the monkey in the middle between the two of you and your problems which is REALLY messing him up. You may want to talk to his sister about it in detail so she can understand if you think she will listen and talk to her brother without lambasting him. It's real important that he not make comments, even on a phone call to someone else with your son within earshot.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

I know you can't change your husband, but you need to try in this case to get son out of the middle. It's not your fault. But try as hard as you can.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

She seemed to, she said he shouldn't be lying and acting out with so much anger and hate like that and suggested I take him to a counseler. I said that I have got that in the works. I have not said anything to my son except for when that night when he came home, I said it's ok to tell someone that you are angry, it's not ok to call someone names or try to hit them. 

I have been VERY careful about the phone calls I make, I make sure that he is NOwhere around now, I have taken extreme precautions after my one mistake. He keeps saying that I am trying to use the kids, I am not. The fact that he said that to his sister is trying to put me in a bad light, and I will not stand for it, my poor son was reacting the best way he knew how, and for goodness sake this incident happened only a week after I asked him to leave. The second visit I guess had went much better, except he came home and was within minutes saying he hated his dad and stuff, it's like he had fun there, and came home and vented to me. All I said in response to the I hate daddy's is your daddy loves you very much, and I know you love your daddy, you will always have your daddy, and I left it at that. 

I would love to have a conversation with him about this, but as I have said before, he refuses to come over and discuss anything with me, he won't speak to me on the phone, only by text. He is avoiding, and that isn't healthy, and if I do something he doesn't like, I get blasted by text message. The text I sent him in reference to his sister wasn't rude, it was straight and to the point, simply saying I didn't appreciate him letting his sister think that I was badmouthing her. I did tell her that in addition to the things my son said at her house, that he came home and said daddy said bad things about me. Again, which I knew weren't true, and I explained it to her the best that I could. I didn't bring up my son or my personal issues with him, just expressed that I didn't appreciate the half stories, and that I won't stand being a scapegoat for his behaviors.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

On another tangent, can you give me some personal perspective on why he doesn't want to tell the kids right now? I mean if he feels it's inevitable, why do we not sit down and have that discussion with them like this week? It may take months, but I have read it's best to tell them as soon as possible, opinions please.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Fence sitting. He doesn't want to do something that can't be undone. But I suspect you are hoping he will want to come back qnd that's just not healthy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Not really, I really have no hope right now. I have accepted his decision, I just don't want to have months go by, and then "spring it" on them. I know that it wouldn't be good to tell them now, and then if it takes 8 9 months to get that ball rolling, it would just be hard on them. But he makes it sound like he wants it done as fast and efficiently as possible, so I just don't understand why we can't have that dialogue with them very soon, like in the next week or two, I would like my children to have time to adjust to the idea of mom and dad never being together again. Of course I would want him to want to come back, but I know that's not the case, highly unlikely. Things could change yes, but I am not thinking that way. Right now, I just want to do what's best for my children. 

I don't want to lull them into a false sense of security that we may get back together, so why not pull the bandaid off if that makes any sense. I was lulled into a false sense of security more than once, and it sucked, I do not want that for them. I want them to be able to adjust to the feelings and issues they may have with it. I honestly don't know right now how long it will take to get the ball rolling there is alot that needs to be resolved first.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

He is doing this for him.

And you continue to let him dictate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Perhaps you are correct. I am just trying to do right by my children, they are my first and main priority, always.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

paramore said:


> On another tangent, can you give me some personal perspective on why he doesn't want to tell the kids right now? I mean if he feels it's inevitable, why do we not sit down and have that discussion with them like this week? It may take months, but I have read it's best to tell them as soon as possible, opinions please.


 Why on earth would he want to do something that makes him LOOK bad, FEEL bad, and SOUND bad? 

When are you going to stop wasting valuable brainspace on him?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You are your children's world. They study you. They wait for you. And they KNOW when you're lying to them.

Respect them enough to tell them the truth.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

This is what I think. I think I will tell them soon, as soon as i find the right way to do so. It's his problem if he chooses not to come around and discuss this with me. He has left all of this stuff to me to deal with for so long, I feel it has to fall on my shoulders, he won't call, won't stop by to discuss things that need to be discussed for whatever stupid reason. As soon as I feel I have a good dialogue ready I am going to sit them down and tell them, when I am ready, I am not gonna sit around and wait on him, he has had his chance. He has made his choice.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Para, I agree tell them mom and dad won't be together anymore and then reinforce it with you kids did not do anything that casued this. Mommy and daddy just can't be together anymore. Don't go into any details or place nay balme. If asked, say it was decision dad and you made together. Then let your husband know exactly what you told them. I'm sure he will be pissed he wasn't involved, but don't argue or discuss that fact. Then let his sister know and anyone else close to you and your kids so no one confuses them comments to contrary.

Sorry to say this, but mywife discussed with me last night her feelings about my use of this forum. SHe doesn't like the fact that I'm discussing her affair, my reaction to it and the amount of what she considers private information even if I never use her name or mine and it's completely anonymous. I told her I frequent it to help me past roadblocks and to try to pay back some the support others gave me. She told me I didn't have to stop if I didn't want to, she was just letting me know how she felt and she didn't want me to feel resentful that she was asking me to stop - the decision was mine. Knowing that it bothered her, I told her that I would say my goodbyes but still would remain available to certain people like yourself. So if you ever need anything like someone to talk to or a sounding board, please don't hesitate to leave me a message or if you would like we can swap outside e-mail addresses on PM. I'm sure I'll drift through once in a while just to see how your doing. 

I greatly appreciate all the support people have given me and posting on others forums has helped to gain perspective in my own situation.Thanks for your support, the laughs and fun comments.

8


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

The only thing I am scared of is that if he changes (doubtful) his mind, that it will mess with my kids, like 3 months from now, he decides he doesn't want to D. I just don't want to put my kids through the back and forth ya know?


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

If you let him change his mind and come back, you guarantee putting them through more. That's on you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

BTW 8 good decision.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyGriffinFan (Apr 4, 2011)

paramore said:


> The only thing I am scared of is that if he changes (doubtful) his mind, that it will mess with my kids, like 3 months from now, he decides he doesn't want to D. I just don't want to put my kids through the back and forth ya know?


Nothing against you Paramore, but I just soooooo hate those terms. "He doesn't want to" or "what if he decides that he doesn't want a divorce"...I understand you want him back, but when I hear terms like this, I always feel like the person saying it is just giving their spouse total control of the direction of their life.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

turnera said:


> You are your children's world. They study you. They wait for you. And they KNOW when you're lying to them.
> 
> Respect them enough to tell them the truth.


ITA w/ this. Para, I hope you are doing well and am sending you a big hug


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I understand that kathy, I totally do, and I wonder it myself. I do really well for the most part, but then kind of go back a bit, it IS getting better day by day you know? I mean I am running pretty much a plan b/180 right now, which for the most part I have done so far so good. Thing is I haven't decided on a specific time limit yet, since I am still working on complete acceptance of his decision. Today I have done really well, packed up the son, and two other little boys went to a local park for almost 4 hours, only got a little sad a couple of times, which is pretty damn good these days. We came home and now I am here. I did pick up a couple of complicated cross stitches which I haven't done in a really long time, and unfortunately they are kind of expensive LOL, but I am going to start on those tonight to keep my hands and mind busy, I mean I gotta do alot of counting to keep from screwing it up hehe. It's getting better day by day for sure, it's getting easier to not miss him, getting easier at night, not thinking about him all of the time now. Thank GOD it's nicer out where I can actually get outside and do some stuff. I may either tonight or tomorrow night go mow, which is nice and mind numbing, and relaxing. I forgot how nice mowing on a rider is. For now, when it comes to him, I am not going to ignore the D word, I am just gonna let it ride, because we can't do it right now anyways, I am not gonna stress about it.

I am going to start taking steps to protect myself though, and once I figure out a good dialogue in order to speak with the kids, I will be doing that soon. One day at a time, right? I am wanting to get myself to a better place emotionally before I approach my kids, I don't want to speak with them until i can not be a big blubbery mess first. In order to do that I need to tweak myself a bit more, but it will be soon, I have really done better this time. Kinda sad when you learn to soar through it after you have been knocked on your ass so many times LOL.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Mowing therapy is great, esp with an mp3 player and very loud singing. 

Can you invite some other moms round to play penny ante poker or watch a movie and eat and make blender drinks? 

I do think it is ok to cry iwhen you tell the kids. It OS an honest.emotion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

That wouldn't be too horrible of an idea Clip, I mean right now if I told them tonight, I would be very very very emotional, to where I think I'd freak them out, as the emotion is very fresh in me yet. I need to gain better control of my emotions first, I don't want to make it any worse than it's already gonna be. My mp3 player is broken  I may have to invest in another, luckily they are cheap.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

if you think you're going to be a blubbering fool start off howling like a dog . by the time you get to crying really hard they'll be relieved and grateful that you stopped howling like a dog . if you wanna make it really amusing have a few of those blender drinks first .

think about putting it to a tune they might recognize like the barney theme song . daddy is a big fat jerk he's not coming back from work because he's lying cheating creep. Wonder where he's going to sleep.

how's that ?

;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Hahahaha!!!!!!!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

ok, I hope I did this right, as you know my husband has only been communicating via text, which I believe is childish and cowardly. We had already established that he would see the kids tomorrow on Sunday night, via chat, of course lol. He texted me a little bit ago can I see the kids tomorrow? I am tired of this communicating about our children via the typed word. I had said before I am done with this type of communication about the children. I texted him back this....I have requested communication via phone or in person please. Left it at that, he said back, ok I will call you in the morning. Why should HE get to decide how we communicate about the children. I have stated many times that I would rather communicate the normal way when it at least comes to the children. Did I do good by sticking to my guns? Not looking for a cookie here, btw. People have said don't let him dictate, so I am not letting him dictate how we communicate anymore. If I get anymore texts regarding anything I will be ignoring them.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

That's it!

Does he know the barney tune?

I like talk, you like text
You're who put us in this mess
So pick up the phone you little chicken ****
Or my lawyer says you'll pay for it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

LOL!!!!!


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

are you doing today P?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

ok so far, got most of the yard mowed, not feeling like doing the rest. I am in a pretty good mood, he has the kids til about 9, just chillin, having a couple of beers, actually enjoying the quiet.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Ok, this "single" mom things sucks. This is gonna take alot of getting used to for sure, I have to deal with EVERYTHING lol. My son has been very naughty all day, have for the most part been very patient, but god at the end of the day.....he just won't let up on me, on top of dealing with teenage hormones with my girls, this isn't gonna be an easy road. While their dad sits there in the evenings talking/texting at his sisters house, must be rough.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Forget what he's doing. Keep a log of his visitation for later use in court. You should be able to use to increase your child support payments to help with babysitting so you cna occasionally regain your sanity!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

yeah, for sure. I was just tired and grumpy last night that's all. I am gonna paint the dining room today, should be fun, fresh color, lighten up the place a bit.


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## krismimo (Jan 26, 2011)

Paramore,

I know you must be a busy lady just checking in to make sure your ok and always know you have people here that care!

-Krismimo


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Yep. We miss you !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

hey all i am still here, shot off internet at my house, so i get to do this by phone, me no likey lol. have alot to share, some back and forths, pretty sure H is still unsure of what he wants, he has been a bit of a **** here and there, well more than a ****, but i will have to do it in spurts as i hate doing this by phone lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Glad to see you are alive and well Para!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

alive, yes, well depends on the day lol. money has been tight, trying to work on replacing bad habits such as smoking with good ones. i quit wow, which is huge. i cant have have internet or wow until i get habits under control. i got rid of cable too, sucks not having tv either lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good for quitting!

Sounds like a great time to pull out some books or board games.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

COngrats paramore. It's erally hard to quit. I did for 8 months and then d-day hit and I fell off the wagon. I will quit again. Believe it or not, my wife tells me she can taste it when she goes down on me and it really turns her off. Guess that is one great motivator! Glad to hear your reining in your expenses, great job! Anything new on a$$holes part?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Just a friendly hello to you Para. Hang in there!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

nothing new to report, just still taking it one day at a time. six weeks out, he got pissed at me yesterday cuz he wanted me to pick up kids at his sisters place around 9pm, and i refused to.

i told him if you want to sit down and we will set up something, but i will not pick them up when you ask me the day of. part of me is like its your time with them you can pick up and drop off, but i am willing to make a compromise, just gotta discuss it.
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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Have you considered drawing up a custody agreement with him? Who gets them when?


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Suggestion for you paramore - if you have a droid or iphone 4, you may be able to set your phone up as a wireless router!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

well as you know, the first several weeks i was waiting to see when he wanted them. nothing was set in stone, now a couple of weeks ago he was all like well saturday and sunday afternoons are my time with them, i was like wellllll, nothing was ever set in stone, but ok fine.

evidently i am expected to be a mind reader, when the first several weeks he was gone he would go almost two weeks without seeing them. then he demands these times, bc i know his schedule. of course i didnt deny him the times, i have even gone the extra mile to offer if he gets off work early some evenings, that he is more than welcome to see them.

just seems boy wants everything his way without having to communicate over it, well he doesnt like it when i refuse to just roll with all his way
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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

He's a typical wayward. They always want everything their way. 

Get an agreement in writing. It will help resolve a lot of problems.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

or just an agreement period actually sit down and discuss it and not expect you wife to "just know" lol, instead of throwing this **** at me and getting pissed when i either cant mindread or refuse something that hasnt been reasonably discussed.
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