# Update to my story and reconciliation



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Many of you know my story, for those that don’t my wife had a six month workplace affair. Two and a half years passed before my d-day on 1/20/2014, two days later I was informed my twin boys were not mine biologically. I had attempted suicide (failed) and after years of therapy I’m now a person who has grown and back to being healthy. My wife also did therapy and has grown as well. I chose reconciliation as it was my best option, what was best for me. 

We have just returned from a vacation to Disney, a week long adventure with many firsts for the boys. First time to Disney, first time flying, and many other firsts the vacation had to offer. To say we had a blast would be an understatement, the excitement from the boys very contagious. My wife and I also spent many evenings alone at the pool with the boys asleep upstairs. Our communication was outstanding, same page and finishing of each other’s sentences. We laughed and joked without infidelity poking in anywhere. I have now come to realize I have chosen correctly, reconciliation truly was best for me. 

So many people on TAM have helped our reconciliation as we walk this journey. Too many to list here individually, but you all have helped in one way or another. @Truthseeker1 has posted a thread about the wayward spouse ever truly getting it, I think my wife does. She feels my pain, although she hasn’t been betrayed, she feels my pain very close to what I do. This is remorse, along with being vulnerable to speak about my pain and try to comfort me through. She has done quite extraordinary in therapy, she has changed so much of herself. She too has become a better person and become healthy again. She has changed her character, her morals, and so much more. Many of my friends and both our families have noticed both of our improvements. 

While she has not felt betrayal, the only way she could is for me to cheat, but I’m not wired that way. She will never know what it’s like to be cheated on, but for a wayward, I believe she couldn’t possibly be get it any more then she does. So @Truthseeker1, I’m not even sure if a revenge affair would even be as devastating. What made her affair hurt so much was that it was a shock, what shock would she really feel if it’s in the back of her mind that I may cheat? She doesn’t think I will, I won’t, but I suspect that those who have cheated think their spouse may down the road. I think a revenge affair is up to the individual, but for me I don’t think you can extinguish a fire by pouring gas on it. 

So we are doing well, our marriage rebuilt and stronger then ever. Our boys doing very well and enjoying family adventures. Both my wife and I take them alone at times for special time each week, we are very heavily involved in all that they do. Summer is fast approaching and the boys have the itch to go fishing again, they’ve asked several times already. While the marriage continues to be worked on we raise our boys to the best of our ability. Each year we have made progress forward, we have risen from what could be the lowest points we reached. 

Coping with infidelity is a forum filled with pain and destruction, hopefully today each of you smile that peace and happiness can once again return to your life. God bless you all here on TAM, you never know just how much your posts may help someone.


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## Trumbull (May 2, 2018)

Congratulations! It is always great to hear a success story on TAM. Best of luck to you and your family.


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## FarAwayFuture (Apr 28, 2018)

Congrats!!! That is awesome! It's great to read stories like yours. Gives me hope that my story will have a happy ending too someday.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

DO, hoping and praying this keeps up ... glad to hear!


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Drifting on, I will give you one piece of advice. I have heard a number of betrayed spouses over the last number of years say that they would never inflict the pain that their spouse inflicted on them. A lot of the time, they stick to their guns. In approximately 10-20% of the cases, the reconciliation has a late revenge affair. It usually is caused by a trigger, and the anger returns with a vengeance. Sometimes leads to the divorce and in others, adds another layer to the onion. I recall one that devastated the reformed WW. She had the original affair. She was caught, and trickle truthed for months. Then, finally, there was a sheaf of evidence provided by her xAP's wife. It was undeniable, he kicked her to the curb. She worked her ass off. She convinced him that she was again safe, that their love could be renewed. For ten years, it seemed as if they were fully recovered.

He ran into the AP, and it all came back. He told me, the trigger was just as if he had found out yesterday. All he could feel was anger. He, of course, goes to a bar, and proceeds to subvert his anger with a copious amount of alcohol. Strikes up a conversation with the bartender. What he said is that he hung around to closing, called his wife, and gave a bullcrap excuse. She never had any reason to suspect, after all, she was a cheater and he was the good guy that stood beside her. So, he begins to feel better. He feels even, except for one thing: his wife had not found out. I tell him to prepare for the worst. In short, he absolutely devastates her. And he says to her, now you know. If you want out, then ok. They talked. All about his anger that always bubbled below the surface. He controlled it for ten long years. He thought that it was slowly ebbing, and seeing the AP just broke the surface and it all came out. He told her that it was nothing but pure revenge. He had no feelings at all for the bartender, and was sorry for using her. Her anger was spectacular, and I caught a bit of it, and I reiterated my stand that anything said to me is in confidence, and the only place I can be compelled to talk is in a court. It took her a month or so to calm down and start the whole damn thing all over again, this time as the opposite side of the coin. He realized they were going to be better, when she admitted that she NEVER realized how much pain. She saw it in his eyes, and never thought it could be as bad as it was. They agreed that she needed to feel it. I related to her that my wife had done something similar. I am not a proponent of this, as two wrongs never make a right, but for some people the need for justice can lie dormant until aroused by unusual circumstances.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Taxman said:


> Drifting on, I will give you one piece of advice. I have heard a number of betrayed spouses over the last number of years say that they would never inflict the pain that their spouse inflicted on them. A lot of the time, they stick to their guns. In approximately 10-20% of the cases, the reconciliation has a late revenge affair. It usually is caused by a trigger, and the anger returns with a vengeance. Sometimes leads to the divorce and in others, adds another layer to the onion. I recall one that devastated the reformed WW. She had the original affair. She was caught, and trickle truthed for months. Then, finally, there was a sheaf of evidence provided by her xAP's wife. It was undeniable, he kicked her to the curb. She worked her ass off. She convinced him that she was again safe, that their love could be renewed. For ten years, it seemed as if they were fully recovered.
> 
> He ran into the AP, and it all came back. He told me, the trigger was just as if he had found out yesterday. All he could feel was anger. He, of course, goes to a bar, and proceeds to subvert his anger with a copious amount of alcohol. Strikes up a conversation with the bartender. What he said is that he hung around to closing, called his wife, and gave a bullcrap excuse. She never had any reason to suspect, after all, she was a cheater and he was the good guy that stood beside her. So, he begins to feel better. He feels even, except for one thing: his wife had not found out. I tell him to prepare for the worst. In short, he absolutely devastates her. And he says to her, now you know. If you want out, then ok. They talked. All about his anger that always bubbled below the surface. He controlled it for ten long years. He thought that it was slowly ebbing, and seeing the AP just broke the surface and it all came out. He told her that it was nothing but pure revenge. He had no feelings at all for the bartender, and was sorry for using her. Her anger was spectacular, and I caught a bit of it, and I reiterated my stand that anything said to me is in confidence, and the only place I can be compelled to talk is in a court. It took her a month or so to calm down and start the whole damn thing all over again, this time as the opposite side of the coin. He realized they were going to be better, when she admitted that she NEVER realized how much pain. She saw it in his eyes, and never thought it could be as bad as it was. They agreed that she needed to feel it. I related to her that my wife had done something similar. I am not a proponent of this, as two wrongs never make a right, but for some people the need for justice can lie dormant until aroused by unusual circumstances.


A lot of times when this happens the BS also will just lose all love for their WS and move on. There are lots of threads like that too. But then again, marriage is hard even without infidelity. Nothing is guaranteed.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Good luck to you. I hope out works out for you.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Taxman said:


> Drifting on, I will give you one piece of advice. I have heard a number of betrayed spouses over the last number of years say that they would never inflict the pain that their spouse inflicted on them. A lot of the time, they stick to their guns. In approximately 10-20% of the cases, the reconciliation has a late revenge affair. It usually is caused by a trigger, and the anger returns with a vengeance. Sometimes leads to the divorce and in others, adds another layer to the onion. I recall one that devastated the reformed WW. She had the original affair. She was caught, and trickle truthed for months. Then, finally, there was a sheaf of evidence provided by her xAP's wife. It was undeniable, he kicked her to the curb. She worked her ass off. She convinced him that she was again safe, that their love could be renewed. For ten years, it seemed as if they were fully recovered.
> 
> He ran into the AP, and it all came back. He told me, the trigger was just as if he had found out yesterday. All he could feel was anger. He, of course, goes to a bar, and proceeds to subvert his anger with a copious amount of alcohol. Strikes up a conversation with the bartender. What he said is that he hung around to closing, called his wife, and gave a bullcrap excuse. She never had any reason to suspect, after all, she was a cheater and he was the good guy that stood beside her. So, he begins to feel better. He feels even, except for one thing: his wife had not found out. I tell him to prepare for the worst. In short, he absolutely devastates her. And he says to her, now you know. If you want out, then ok. They talked. All about his anger that always bubbled below the surface. He controlled it for ten long years. He thought that it was slowly ebbing, and seeing the AP just broke the surface and it all came out. He told her that it was nothing but pure revenge. He had no feelings at all for the bartender, and was sorry for using her. Her anger was spectacular, and I caught a bit of it, and I reiterated my stand that anything said to me is in confidence, and the only place I can be compelled to talk is in a court. It took her a month or so to calm down and start the whole damn thing all over again, this time as the opposite side of the coin. He realized they were going to be better, when she admitted that she NEVER realized how much pain. She saw it in his eyes, and never thought it could be as bad as it was. They agreed that she needed to feel it. I related to her that my wife had done something similar. I am not a proponent of this, as two wrongs never make a right, but for some people the need for justice can lie dormant until aroused by unusual circumstances.




I understand all that you have said, and I thank you for posting this. Being four years past d-day, the desire for a revenge affair just isn’t there. I felt my pain and devastation, my being fully destroyed. Intimacy is much more to me, I can’t nor wouldn’t, be intimate with anyone but whom I’m married too. I’m not dead, I notice beautiful women, but having an affair is just not me. This is why I came here so confused, or at least partly, is because I just don’t understand giving yourself away in just a manner. I’m not judging any wayward, it’s just in my mind I don’t get it. Justice will not be served by me, that was a huge hurdle to overcome, but I do still mess with OM every given chance. Think of it as a hobby.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

You are obviously intelligent, write very well and have well thought out posts and positions.

However, and this possibly says more about me than you, but you have accepted a situation that would be probably 1st or 2nd on most BH's "deal breaker" list. I simply couldn't even attempt R with the constant trigger of an OC(s). It's your life and you seem to be comfortable with your decision, but its just difficult for me to even imagine how that situation would work or is even healthy to attempt. 

I see most are offering support and congratulations, but I just can't go there with what I perceive to be such a tragedy.

Please don't consider this a criticism, but more of as expressing a differing opinion than some others may offer.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

sokillme said:


> A lot of times when this happens the BS also will just lose all love for their WS and move on. There are lots of threads like that too. But then again, marriage is hard even without infidelity. Nothing is guaranteed.





Nothing is guaranteed, and I would say I was most nervous of this change. I worried I will not love who she becomes, would she love me with my changes? Just like myself, my wife threw herself into changing like I did, full commitment. She didn’t take an easy route nor did I, maybe this is why we have come to this point. Whatever the reasons may be, we both find ourselves blessed today.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

MyRevelation said:


> You are obviously intelligent, write very well and have well thought out posts and positions.
> 
> However, and this possibly says more about me than you, but you have accepted a situation that would be probably 1st or 2nd on most BH's "deal breaker" list. I simply couldn't even attempt R with the constant trigger of an OC(s). It's your life and you seem to be comfortable with your decision, but its just difficult for me to even imagine how that situation would work or is even healthy to attempt.
> 
> ...




I can understand your position, hell, even I would advise a betrayed to divorce immediately if faced with this situation. I respect your honesty, and do not feel you are criticizing at all, your perspective is well taken on my end. What I will say is that the boys were two and a half years old when I found out biologically that they weren’t mine. What my wife and I went through trying to get pregnant was over fifteen years, along with a miscarriage. I had great difficulty in just walking away from two great boys who were completely innocent. The boys are not a source of a trigger, instead they are two individuals who I loved immensely both before and after finding out. The boys are “mine” without any shadow of a doubt, I am the only father they know. When age appropriate they will be told, and my love for them is so much that if they desire contact with OM, I will help in finding OM. I just won’t meet with OM and the boys, they will have to do that on their own. If too young to drive I will the boys, but in no way do I meet OM and the boys together. I hope I’m explaining this correctly.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

@drifting on - stay happy and healthy my friend....


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

drifting on said:


> I can understand your position, hell, even I would advise a betrayed to divorce immediately if faced with this situation. I respect your honesty, and do not feel you are criticizing at all, your perspective is well taken on my end. What I will say is that the boys were two and a half years old when I found out biologically that they weren’t mine. What my wife and I went through trying to get pregnant was over fifteen years, along with a miscarriage. I had great difficulty in just walking away from two great boys who were completely innocent. The boys are not a source of a trigger, instead they are two individuals who I loved immensely both before and after finding out. The boys are “mine” without any shadow of a doubt, I am the only father they know. When age appropriate they will be told, and my love for them is so much that if they desire contact with OM, I will help in finding OM. I just won’t meet with OM and the boys, they will have to do that on their own. If too young to drive I will the boys, but in no way do I meet OM and the boys together. I hope I’m explaining this correctly.


I understand your position, I just wouldn't even contemplate attempting it on my own, and if I did for whatever reason, all parties would have to be NC for life with OM. I'm sorry, but if you actually succeed in doing what you are attempting and raised the OC, I would consider it the ultimate disrespect for them to ever want any contact with OM. If you do indeed consider them "mine", then they should consider themselves "yours" and OM should be nothing to them but some unrelated sperm donor.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Congratulations! I think that you and your wife are a rare breed and an inspiration to many going through hard times. Best wishes!


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

drifting on said:


> I can understand your position, hell, even I would advise a betrayed to divorce immediately if faced with this situation. I respect your honesty, and do not feel you are criticizing at all, your perspective is well taken on my end. What I will say is that the boys were two and a half years old when I found out biologically that they weren’t mine. What my wife and I went through trying to get pregnant was over fifteen years, along with a miscarriage. I had great difficulty in just walking away from two great boys who were completely innocent. The boys are not a source of a trigger, instead they are two individuals who I loved immensely both before and after finding out. The boys are “mine” without any shadow of a doubt, I am the only father they know. When age appropriate they will be told, and my love for them is so much that if they desire contact with OM, I will help in finding OM. I just won’t meet with OM and the boys, they will have to do that on their own. If too young to drive I will the boys, but in no way do I meet OM and the boys together. I hope I’m explaining this correctly.


Drifting i am so glad things are going well for you, for all of you, but when the day comes, and you tell them the truth your wife will also have to to grips with her part in all of this (as expected) but the boys will not see their mother in the same light as you (as expected)


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

By the time an infidelity case reaches me, the marriage is effectively over. I offer no counselling, or even legal advice, I offer a constellation of professionals in different areas of expertise. I have seen people pull back from the brink. I have seen people toss their partner over the brink. And Drifting on, unfortunately, I have had three in the last five years that swore up and down they would NEVER EVER lower themselves to act like their partner. One woman said that she was raised as catholic as you can get, and she saved herself, and she did not want to spend eternity in purgatory. She was good and dutiful, and she battled valiantly to keep her marriage together. His affair effected her more deeply than she let on. Her self esteem took a good solid body blow. First year after dday, she was definitely dressing better. Year 3, I did not recognize her, the lost a lot of weight, and it was very apparent that she was in the gym for a significant portion of her life. Given the change, my alarm bells went off.

It was not very long after that, news made its way back to me, that she had indeed found someone to erase the negative self esteem issue. Her husband did not deal with it very well. She now lives (according to her, in sin), with a new fellow. Hubby and her are split under tremendously acrimonious conditions. She is holding her own pretty well, and I pointed out that she handled his affair like a champ, but he ain't anywhere near as strong as her.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I appreciate reading your posts. You are insightful and you have a way of getting right to the heart of the matter so that people can use your advice in a practical manner.




drifting on said:


> Justice will not be served by me, that was a huge hurdle to overcome, but I do still mess with OM every given chance. Think of it as a hobby.


When do you see him? Why do you have the opportunity? What do you do to mess with him? Does he know he fathered the boys?



drifting on said:


> The boys are “mine” without any shadow of a doubt, I am the only father they know. When age appropriate they will be told, and my love for them is so much that if they desire contact with OM, I will help in finding OM. I just won’t meet with OM and the boys, they will have to do that on their own. If too young to drive I will the boys, but in no way do I meet OM and the boys together. I hope I’m explaining this correctly.


Are the boys six or seven now?
I think they will need to know before they are old enough to figure it out, but I would not advise that they meet their biological father until after they are 18. I would advise the help of a trained marriage and family therapist to help you through this situation when it arises.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Lostinthought61 said:


> Drifting i am so glad things are going well for you, for all of you, but when the day comes, and you tell them the truth your wife will also have to to grips with her part in all of this (as expected) but the boys will not see their mother in the same light as you (as expected)




In therapy is how this will be divulged to the boys, and therapy has provided ways for my wife to deal with this. Of course the boys view of their mother may indeed change, this is something beyond our control. I can only hope that it does go well, but we are prepared for it not too as well.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> I appreciate reading your posts. You are insightful and you have a way of getting right to the heart of the matter so that people can use your advice in a practical manner.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My wife worked OM, he attempted to befriend me but I wasn’t very receptive. We have other mutual friends who let me know about OM, like when he starts a new job. I will call the OM’s employer and let them know who they have hired. He hasn’t had employment for more then two weeks. I have the opportunity because it’s a new hobby I have picked up, petty, but still a hobby! Lol. As of now I have not informed OM he is the donor, I am leaving that for the future, things that I wish I could explain here, but I’ve been advised not too. Once our therapist determines they are of age to know we will tell them in a therapeutical setting with a trained therapist. I can only hope they don’t want to meet OM and I will ask that they wait until they are eighteen. However, after eighteen I feel as if I have no say in if they want to meet OM. 

I thank you for your kind words, I find so many of your posts to be very accurate and intelligent. I try to post with some type of vulnerability, something I need to work on, but I don’t think I come across that way sometimes. My posts are to show what I went through, that I survived, and so will others when they pick themselves up. But that’s the key, you have to pick yourself up no matter how devastated and destroyed, then you need to get healthy. From there your outlook begins to change. Thank you for being a calming voice in the storm, I hope you see that in your posts.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> In therapy is how this will be divulged to the boys, and therapy has provided ways for my wife to deal with this. Of course the boys view of their mother may indeed change, this is something beyond our control. *I can only hope that it does go well, but we are prepared for it not too as well*.


Me too for your boys to lead happy, well adjusted lives. I admire your strength in dealing with this.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

@drifting on, Thank you.

Truly I hope that your boys will not want to meet him. You have good character to raise them as a loving father and truly embracing them as your children. I cannot imagine they could ask for a better dad. Telling them in a therapeutic setting is a good idea. This will come as quite a shock to them when they learn the truth. It's too bad they ever have to know, but it is better for them to find out this way than another way.

With all the DNA testing and genealogical interest these days, they could get tested and find out that way about their biological heritage. That would be tragic for them. The genealogical sites now match people who are biologically related and give them an opportunity to get to know each other.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Me too for your boys to lead happy, well adjusted lives. I admire your strength in dealing with this.




Thank you @Truthseeker1, and not just for this post, but for all the other posts that you helped me. God bless you.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> @drifting on, Thank you.
> 
> Truly I hope that your boys will not want to meet him. You have good character to raise them as a loving father and truly embracing them as your children. I cannot imagine they could ask for a better dad. Telling them in a therapeutic setting is a good idea. This will come as quite a shock to them when they learn the truth. It's too bad they ever have to know, but it is better for them to find out this way than another way.
> 
> With all the DNA testing and genealogical interest these days, they could get tested and find out that way about their biological heritage. That would be tragic for them. The genealogical sites now match people who are biologically related and give them an opportunity to get to know each other.




As for the DNA testing sites, scary at best, although they just caught a serial rapist who submitted his DNA for ancestry reasons. We plan to tell them, I can’t let them live a lie any more then myself could. I hope I am the best father I can be to them, I’m very active in my life with them. If they decide to want to meet OM, I can’t argue that, I think I would want to know who is my biological father. As much as I would like to say no, I see it as very selfish on my part. As I’ve said, they’re innocent, besides, I’m confident enough in how I’m raising them that our relationship will have minimal impact. I guess I’m saying, by the age of eighteen the boys and I should be very close, much closer then I was with my own father.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I wish the best for you @drifting on. 
And because I'm a man of my word I will not bring up my story.
Stay vigilant.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MyRevelation said:


> You are obviously intelligent, write very well and have well thought out posts and positions.
> 
> However, and this possibly says more about me than you, but you have accepted a situation that would be probably 1st or 2nd on most BH's "deal breaker" list. I simply couldn't even attempt R with the constant trigger of an OC(s). It's your life and you seem to be comfortable with your decision, but its just difficult for me to even imagine how that situation would work or is even healthy to attempt.
> 
> ...


I offered the same response to another of @drifting on threads maybe a year ago when I first heard his story. I even had a crisis of faith over it. I think I still am in the middle of that in some ways. One thing to remember is that all infidelity is a tragedy. Even with the best reconciled relationship there is still tremendous loss. Infidelity is death. You never get over it you learn to live with it. Even if you no longer suffer any emotional pain it still changes you forever. 

That said even if I am unsure of his decision I think that @drifting on is a very honorable man. I have no problem celebrating that.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

drifting on said:


> I can understand your position, hell, even I would advise a betrayed to divorce immediately if faced with this situation. I respect your honesty, and do not feel you are criticizing at all, your perspective is well taken on my end. What I will say is that the boys were two and a half years old when I found out biologically that they weren’t mine. What my wife and I went through trying to get pregnant was over fifteen years, along with a miscarriage. I had great difficulty in just walking away from two great boys who were completely innocent. The boys are not a source of a trigger, instead they are two individuals who I loved immensely both before and after finding out. The boys are “mine” without any shadow of a doubt, I am the only father they know. When age appropriate they will be told, and my love for them is so much that if they desire contact with OM, I will help in finding OM. I just won’t meet with OM and the boys, they will have to do that on their own. If too young to drive I will the boys, but in no way do I meet OM and the boys together. I hope I’m explaining this correctly.


Have them take an Uber. I'm kidding. 

I am curious have you prepared for some of the fall out from them. There may be anger and also some identity stuff. Also kids can be cruel even to parents, and this may be a way to be that way. It's not uncommon for adopted kids to romanticize their biological parents whom they don't know because at the time their parents are seen as restrictive authority figures. 

I don't say that to scare you just to mention it if you haven't thought of it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

drifting on said:


> My wife worked OM, he attempted to befriend me but I wasn’t very receptive. We have other mutual friends who let me know about OM, like when he starts a new job. I will call the OM’s employer and let them know who they have hired. He hasn’t had employment for more then two weeks. I have the opportunity because it’s a new hobby I have picked up, petty, but still a hobby! Lol. As of now I have not informed OM he is the donor, I am leaving that for the future, things that I wish I could explain here, but I’ve been advised not too. Once our therapist determines they are of age to know we will tell them in a therapeutical setting with a trained therapist. I can only hope they don’t want to meet OM and I will ask that they wait until they are eighteen. However, after eighteen I feel as if I have no say in if they want to meet OM.
> 
> I thank you for your kind words, I find so many of your posts to be very accurate and intelligent. I try to post with some type of vulnerability, something I need to work on, but I don’t think I come across that way sometimes. My posts are to show what I went through, that I survived, and so will others when they pick themselves up. But that’s the key, you have to pick yourself up no matter how devastated and destroyed, then you need to get healthy. From there your outlook begins to change. Thank you for being a calming voice in the storm, I hope you see that in your posts.


OK, you know I respect you dude and I would want to kill the guy but I have to do it, it wouldn't be me not to challenge. 

So here goes why does your wife get the opportunity to be forgiven and move on with her life and he doesn't? Why as you say you don't take the opportunity to serve her "Justice" but you do with him? It's still true that though he is repulsive he didn't brake any personal vows to you. He only had a general responsibility to you as a fellow human being, where as you wife had an active sacred role. I can see sending him dead flowers, but preventing him from ever making a living for the rest of his life seems over the top particularly when you have completely forgiven your wife. Not to say I don't get the impulse but is that really helping you heal? Seems like a lot of head space.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Have them take an Uber. I'm kidding.
> 
> I am curious have you prepared for some of the fall out from them. There may be anger and also some identity stuff. Also kids can be cruel even to parents, and this may be a way to be that way. It's not uncommon for adopted kids to romanticize their biological parents whom they don't know because at the time their parents are seen as restrictive authority figures.
> 
> I don't say that to scare you just to mention it if you haven't thought of it.




We have thought of this, I believe the s really being the driving force to meet OM. Since I have no control over how they will feel, I am combating this by being the best father I can be, to have a relationship that is strong and fully involved in every aspect of their life. My relationship with my father was very general, but most of my friends spoke to their fathers all through their teens. I want that relationship with the boys, a strong bond that they feel comfortable coming to me about anything. Realistically it’s all I can do, I can’t forbid them from meeting OM, I can only obtain a strong bond to where they may not desire to meet him. Thank you for bringing this up, I appreciateciate your thoughts and concerns.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

sokillme said:


> OK, you know I respect you dude and I would want to kill the guy but I have to do it, it wouldn't be me not to challenge.
> 
> So here goes why does your wife get the opportunity to be forgiven and move on with her life and he doesn't? Why as you say you don't take the opportunity to serve her "Justice" but you do with him? It's still true that though he is repulsive he didn't brake any personal vows to you. He only had a general responsibility to you as a fellow human being, where as you wife had an active sacred role. I can see sending him dead flowers, but preventing him from ever making a living for the rest of his life seems over the top particularly when you have completely forgiven your wife. Not to say I don't get the impulse but is that really helping you heal? Seems like a lot of head space.





I have held my wife’s feet to the fire, she’s been dealt consequences, OM has evaded most consequences. I have a standard letter written, only need to change the company name or a simple google search to get the company phone number. OM is one who likes to flash money, not allowing him to make more hurts him. I know this through mutual friends, so actually I spend ten minutes to make him unemployed again. To me it’s not much head room at all, as I’ve said it’s just a hobby. When I know he’s unemployed again I don’t even smile, it’s business, not my life’s passion or goal. Remember, OM is twenty five years my wife’s senior, I’m just keeping him in early retirement. My therapist once asked why I do this, I responded with why not, the company may appreciate knowing something that doesn’t show up in a background check. My therapist just shrugged her shoulders, and said “moving along”......


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

sokillme said:


> I offered the same response to another of @drifting on threads maybe a year ago when I first heard his story. I even had a crisis of faith over it. I think I still am in the middle of that in some ways. One thing to remember is that all infidelity is a tragedy. Even with the best reconciled relationship there is still tremendous loss. Infidelity is death. You never get over it you learn to live with it. Even if you no longer suffer any emotional pain it still changes you forever.
> 
> That said even if I am unsure of his decision I think that @drifting on is a very honorable man. I have no problem celebrating that.




I remember this conversation very well, you really had me thinking deep. That’s good, I appreciate your responses more then you’ll ever know. While my decisions may bewilder some or have some say no way I could do this, I will say the decision was not easy to make. However I view this while heavily leaning on God. Not a church, nor any priests or pastors, they are capable of sin too, but God and Jesus are pure and perfect. It is my thought that God has placed these boys at my feet, I believe He is watching, perhaps as a way to forgive my own sins. I’m not perfect, never will be, but I will be the best father I can be to two innocent boys. They didn’t ask for this, they were made by two people who sucked at making choices, they should not have to pay for my wife’s or OM’s sins. Say what you want, but between God and myself I’m truly doing what is best for me. I am not saying I stayed for the boys, I stayed and offered to reconcile for what was best for me. It is my hope the boys benefit from what was best for me.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

One other thing @sokillme, I appreciate your kind words, I didn’t want to put that in my last post. I wanted that to be in a separate post.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Sofaking 

How have you been doing? I have thought of you often and prayed for you. I hope you are doing well, seeing as I was so wrong about your situation. God bless you brother.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

drifting on said:


> I remember this conversation very well, you really had me thinking deep. That’s good, I appreciate your responses more then you’ll ever know. While my decisions may bewilder some or have some say no way I could do this, I will say the decision was not easy to make. However I view this while heavily leaning on God. Not a church, nor any priests or pastors, they are capable of sin too, but God and Jesus are pure and perfect. It is my thought that God has placed these boys at my feet, I believe He is watching, perhaps as a way to forgive my own sins. I’m not perfect, never will be, but I will be the best father I can be to two innocent boys. They didn’t ask for this, they were made by two people who sucked at making choices, they should not have to pay for my wife’s or OM’s sins. Say what you want, but between God and myself I’m truly doing what is best for me. I am not saying I stayed for the boys, I stayed and offered to reconcile for what was best for me. It is my hope the boys benefit from what was best for me.


That is a very Christian way of thinking about this. Still it seems so unjust. Grrr.. My internal struggle continues...


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

sokillme said:


> That is a very Christian way of thinking about this. Still it seems so unjust. Grrr.. My internal struggle continues...





I can understand your struggles, I had a couple too.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Glad you made it so far.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

drifting on said:


> Two and a half years passed before my d-day on 1/20/2014, *two days later I was informed my twin boys were not mine biologically...*
> 
> I chose reconciliation as it was my best option, what was best for me.


Couldn't do myself.

I guess we all have our own "Crossed Line" when it comes to infidelity? Hell, what do I know... I R with a serial cheater. :surprise:


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

drifting on said:


> Many of you know my story, for those that don’t my wife had a six month workplace affair. Two and a half years passed before my d-day on 1/20/2014, two days later I was informed my twin boys were not mine biologically. I had attempted suicide (failed) and after years of therapy I’m now a person who has grown and back to being healthy. My wife also did therapy and has grown as well. I chose reconciliation as it was my best option, what was best for me.
> 
> We have just returned from a vacation to Disney, a week long adventure with many firsts for the boys. First time to Disney, first time flying, and many other firsts the vacation had to offer. To say we had a blast would be an understatement, the excitement from the boys very contagious. My wife and I also spent many evenings alone at the pool with the boys asleep upstairs. Our communication was outstanding, same page and finishing of each other’s sentences. We laughed and joked without infidelity poking in anywhere. I have now come to realize I have chosen correctly, reconciliation truly was best for me.
> 
> ...



I am glad you are enjoying your OC. Glad recovery has worked out for you.
Though I have to ask; have you and your FWW talked about you and her
having any of your bio kids?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

If you are watching OM and basically lying in wait to destroy his career, that is revenge. If you are seeking revenge, you have not forgiven. If you have not forgiven, your soul is in jeopardy.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> If you are watching OM and basically lying in wait to destroy his career, that is revenge. If you are seeking revenge, you have not forgiven. If you have not forgiven, your soul is in jeopardy.





I have forgiven my wife as her feet were held to the fire and she had consequences. My wife had vows to me, OM knew she was married and tried to befriend me. I equate this to OM delivered a sucker punch, now if you truly knew me, you would know that that punch better kill me. I’m sure you are now thinking, great, here comes the tough ego. I do not have an ego for toughness, @ConanHub could probably attest to this as we have met and broken bread together. Trouble I don’t seek out, but I am well known to end trouble using any means. Who I deal with on any given day is what other people run from, not me, I face threats head on. So when OM delivered his sucker punch, retribution must be served according to how I think. All of us will pay for our sins, and my seeking retribution is a sin I am willing to pay. My sins are paid to God on the chair of atonement. I will have much to pay for on this chair, but I believe God will also consider some of the good I’ve done. 

The mutual friends I have that know OM have no clue what has happened. When OM is spoke of I simply listen, and if he has found employment I spend a few minutes to eliminate it. Revenge? With what OM did I do not see this as even coming close to revenge, revenge would be far more sinister. Perhaps I should be a better Christian, I have forgiven my wife, but if I said I have forgiven OM, I’d be a bold faced liar. I have not been able to forgive OM, he has not gone through what my wife has, nor will he. So OM will be one person on earth that I am just not able to forgive.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

What were your wife's consequences for this entire ordeal?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> If you are watching OM and basically lying in wait to destroy his career, that is revenge. If you are seeking revenge, you have not forgiven. If you have not forgiven, your soul is in jeopardy.


Proverbs 6:27-35.

There is often a price to pay regardless of forgiveness.

The man on the cross next to Jesus was forgiven and not long after had his legs smashed as he was brutally killed.

Don't mistake forgiveness and repentance with irresponsibility and debt elimination.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Proverbs 6:27-35.
> 
> There is often a price to pay regardless of forgiveness.
> 
> ...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> The mutual friends I have that know OM have no clue what has happened. When OM is spoke of I simply listen, and if he has found employment I spend a few minutes to eliminate it. Revenge? With what OM did I do not see this as even coming close to revenge, revenge would be far more sinister. Perhaps I should be a better Christian, I have forgiven my wife, but if I said I have forgiven OM, I’d be a bold faced liar. I have not been able to forgive OM, he has not gone through what my wife has, nor will he. So OM will be one person on earth that I am just not able to forgive.


Serious question @drifting on is this healthy to continue to seek out revenge? I mean doing it a few times I get it but does continuously seeking this out hurt you more than him? You have enough on your plate my friend without this complicating your life. Does your wife know?


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Proverbs 6:27-35.
> 
> There is often a price to pay regardless of forgiveness.
> 
> ...


Rome didn't forgive him, Jesus did, which probably didn't help his cause any.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Rome didn't forgive him, Jesus did, which probably didn't help his cause any.


If you are a Christian, Jesus is God. The point is that you can receive forgiveness and still have a price to pay.

Jesus paid your debt to God, not to the neighbor whose wife you're boinking or the society you committed a crime in.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> What were your wife's consequences for this entire ordeal?




My wife had many consequences, many of which I can’t put here, but that doesn’t mean her feet were weren’t held to the fire. The consequences I can’t speak of here imposed by me were actually not worse then the punishment of her own demons. Meaning, any consequence I impose was not nearly as devastating as the consequences she inflicted on her own. I can issue a consequence or punishment all day long, but the most severe are self inflicted. In my opinion it’s the self imposed consequences of the wayward that the betrayed needs to measure. Remorse is a needed part of infidelity, but it’s not just remorse that the betrayed needs. What actions is the wayward taking? Are they committed to changing? Are they capable of making long term change? Can they change their character and morals? I was cruel in many ways to my wife, but she took it all and then some. I’m not perfect, it had to be my way though, my wife agreed.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Serious question @drifting on is this healthy to continue to seek out revenge? I mean doing it a few times I get it but does continuously seeking this out hurt you more than him? You have enough on your plate my friend without this complicating your life. Does your wife know?





My wife knows, tells me to do as I wish, but I don’t seek out the revenge. It’s talk among friends, they say where OM is working and I take ten minutes to destroy it. It really is that simple, at worst it costs me .50 cents to mail a letter. I understand exactly what you say, trust me I do, but sometimes this makes me smile. I doubt this will ever change.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Proverbs 6:27-35.
> 
> There is often a price to pay regardless of forgiveness.
> 
> ...





Spot on, exactly as I view it.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> If you are a Christian, Jesus is God. The point is that you can receive forgiveness and still have a price to pay.
> 
> Jesus paid your debt to God, not to the neighbor whose wife you're boinking or the society you committed a crime in.





Exactly. Just because your debt was paid to God by Jesus, don’t think you will still have to pay for your own.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> My wife knows, tells me to do as I wish, but I don’t seek out the revenge. It’s talk among friends, they say where OM is working and I take ten minutes to destroy it. It really is that simple, at worst it costs me .50 cents to mail a letter. I understand exactly what you say, trust me I do, but sometimes this makes me smile. I doubt this will ever change.


So long as you cant be hurt in anyway - emotionally or legally I trust you will do what is best for you and the boys.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> Exactly. Just because your debt was paid to God by Jesus, don’t think you will still have to pay for your own.


Agreed. Sin has consequences even if we seek and receive forgiveness for them.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

oldtruck said:


> I am glad you are enjoying your OC. Glad recovery has worked out for you.
> Though I have to ask; have you and your FWW talked about you and her
> having any of your bio kids?





Multiple times we have had this discussion, however it just never really worked for us. We tried fertility in 02 along with invitroinsemination. When she had a miscarriage in 09 I couldn’t follow the script so to speak. If it happened it happened, that was how I changed to. Now in our lives I hate to say I might be too old for a baby, I struggle at times just to chase the twins down!! Tough to admit, but it’s the truth, age will slow you down. So us having a child that I am the biological parent to is very slim.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

DriftingOn,

What you are doing is a fraction of what some men would do. Two big strikes, 25 years older and two children you are supporting. Adds up to 1% of what the OM did to you. 

I told my W about the 80 something year old OM3 that his kids and grandkids would be held accountable should I ever find out that anything physical happened.

Is the OM married and has his W divorced him?

Tamat


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> So long as you cant be hurt in anyway - emotionally or legally I trust you will do what is best for you and the boys.




This is one change that I have made for me, that I love myself enough to always do what is best for me. Yes, I will always strive to do what is best for myself, the boys, and my marriage. I say the marriage to as it has a direct impact to the boys as well, but I always knew the boys would be fine if we divorced. I would make sure of that, but it didn’t come to that as my wife did some extremely hard work.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

TAMAT said:


> DriftingOn,
> 
> What you are doing is a fraction of what some men would do. Two big strikes, 25 years older and two children you are supporting. Adds up to 1% of what the OM did to you.
> 
> ...





OM will stay pay that 1%, period. OM is still married, from what I’ve heard in separate bedrooms and groveling. I’ve also heard he’s not happy, that breaks my heart (insert sarcasm).


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Miss you my friend.

Flying to Seattle at the moment to officiate for my nephew.

Mrs. Conan is as nervous as a cat in a room full of rockers and keeps touching me for assurance! LOL! She hates flying!

To skeptics about Mrs. drifting, people can and do change.

drifting has changed, his wife has changed, both for the better.

Not that drifting was in any way to blame for the fiasco his wife pulled but he has become stronger and has a healthier outlook.

His wife is a pretty wonderful woman now. She, unfortunately, took a detour into skank alley for a time but has made very hard and good choices since.

She is good people.

I've made some remarkably bad choices in my life and changed in response to the damage I wrought.

The world is definitely a better place for drifting being in it.

He balances folks like me. We are both probably considered good but he is a stand up guy that will have your back, I'm the guy your enemies won't see coming if you're my friend.

I'm not shady, just cunning.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I could go into a full explanation of the importance of forgiveness, but I will simply say this:
Forgiveness is at the heart of the gospel message. We are not take revenge. Justice is to come through proper channels and when it doesn't we allow for either the vengeance of the Lord or his grace, not on our own idea of getting even. When we choose to deliberately sin, we put ourselves in great peril.

My concern is for you, drifting on. I believe you are a good man, as far as mankind goes. None of us are truly good. But when we make a measured decision to defy God's instructions we will eventually reap what we sow. It is my hope that you will sow well and reap a bountiful harvest of blessings.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Miss you my friend.
> 
> Flying to Seattle at the moment to officiate for my nephew.
> 
> ...





I miss you too brother, you are an exceptional human being that helped me through some very dark times. Tell your Mrs. not to worry, flying is safer then driving. I thank you for the kind words, you have no idea how much it means to me. My wife made some terrible choices, choices that directly impacted several people. I have watched her change, I am the recipient of that change, and I know I made the best choice for me. Being in a dark place hurts, you become lost and think you may never find your way again. I know @ConanHub has been in that same dark place, and it hurt me to see him hurting and lost. I hope you don’t mind me saying this, but meeting you and your wife was a day I will never forget. Being able to shake your hand and hug you meant the world to me. I will forever remember that calm feeling of meeting a friend who has your back. I miss you buddy, and I look forward to the next time we meet.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> I could go into a full explanation of the importance of forgiveness, but I will simply say this:
> Forgiveness is at the heart of the gospel message. We are not take revenge. Justice is to come through proper channels and when it doesn't we allow for either the vengeance of the Lord or his grace, not on our own idea of getting even. When we choose to deliberately sin, we put ourselves in great peril.
> 
> My concern is for you, drifting on. I believe you are a good man, as far as mankind goes. None of us are truly good. But when we make a measured decision to defy God's instructions we will eventually reap what we sow. It is my hope that you will sow well and reap a bountiful harvest of blessings.




@CynthiaDe

I appreciate very much the concern you have for me and my actions towards OM. I respect you very much, just to show you how much, I will cease all actions towards OM. I appreciate you and others who have posted to be a better Christian. Your words affected me deeply, and maybe reading them and allowing them to seep in had an affect on me. Thank you for this post, your kind words, and your caring to a stranger you’ve never met. I post here many times after I let the message seep in. This allows me to post mostly from a position of being vulnerable. I’m still a work in progress in being vulnerable, not all my posts are from vulnerability. Thank you again for your kindness, it is appreciated.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Drifter I am truly happy for you that you have found happiness and more importantly, peace despite the double **** sandwich you have had to eat.

However I have never fully understood your actions and put it down to not being there and not fully understanding your situation.


But I have got to say the following from my point of view:


Your wife's "remorse" has been for her benefit mainly - to give her relief from the guilt, to allow her to carry on, to give her the opportunity to have a family after what she did.

And make no mistake (and I think you know this) she did what she did because she wanted to. It was not just the OM but the two of them that carried on for (you believe) 6 months resulting in her conceiving and having twins that you have to raise. And even with these, as per a previous thread of yours, she lashes out if you use a firm hand in disciplining them when they behave badly. Not some thing that I could ever cope with.

Yet you continue to take an aggressive stance with the OM, taking delight and satisfaction in his woes and misery (which I really do understand) but have chosen to completely absolve your wife of what was a partnership in deceit at the time. Why ? Because you love her you say - again something I do not fully understand. Both are EQUALLY to blame. 

And you are raising his kids! Due to her multiple deceit - in cheating on you, on getting pregnant, and then in not telling you until you had bonded with the children! Wow, just wow!

All this makes you a great man and not something that I could ever handle. I would have sent your wife packing as soon as I found out.

I hope you managed to get over these demons because there were times in your past threads where they would raise their heads and you did not sound at all like you had really gotten over it.

If you say that she is truly sorry and has put in the work (to have the life she wanted) then I have no choice but to believe you. But maybe you need to go a little lighter now on the OM and offer him the same Christian forgiveness that you offered your wife who wronged you far more than he did!


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Drifting On... I've lived the bad. so I thought. I had seen the worst, so I thought. But damn, how do you do it day to day? Are you like "The Pretender" as Jackson Browne wrote?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> Drifter I am truly happy for you that you have found happiness and more importantly, peace despite the double **** sandwich you have had to eat.
> 
> However I have never fully understood your actions and put it down to not being there and not fully understanding your situation.
> 
> ...





I completely understand your view, much of this is why I struggled for so long. I would say knowing what my wife is capable of was the hardest to work through. Even after talking with her for hours at a time, if she had answered because I wanted to, I would still struggle. That’s just it, much of the answers to the why is why the betrayed has a hard tome accepting the answer. In the early stages of infidelity the why to the betrayed is such a mystery, a how could you type of moment. How could you this, how could you that, didn’t you think of this, or didn’t you think of that. But the truth is simply this, for an unknown length of time, I wanted to. That is the best way I can explain what my wife thought. Thank you for the well wishes.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

RWB said:


> Drifting On... I've lived the bad. so I thought. I had seen the worst, so I thought. But damn, how do you do it day to day? Are you like "The Pretender" as Jackson Browne wrote?





No pretending, that would have been the worst decision for me to make. I don’t think any human could pretend all is well with yourself with infidelity. Deep inside I don’t think it’s possible for anyone to pretend it didn’t happen and that they found peace and happiness. I would think that just that one ounce of suspicion would eventually grow so much that person couldn’t pretend anymore. I think we see this on threads all the time, an ounce of suspicion and next thing you know confronting early. Or people getting a divorce twenty years after the infidelity. This is why I struggled so much with reconciliation. I had to go slow, turn over every rock and discuss it until I could accept and forgive. You could try to pretend, but in the end it will be one hell of a crash.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

drifting on said:


> I have held my wife’s feet to the fire, she’s been dealt consequences, OM has evaded most consequences. I have a standard letter written, only need to change the company name or a simple google search to get the company phone number. OM is one who likes to flash money, not allowing him to make more hurts him. I know this through mutual friends, so actually I spend ten minutes to make him unemployed again. To me it’s not much head room at all, as I’ve said it’s just a hobby. When I know he’s unemployed again I don’t even smile, it’s business, not my life’s passion or goal. Remember, OM is twenty five years my wife’s senior, I’m just keeping him in early retirement. My therapist once asked why I do this, I responded with why not, the company may appreciate knowing something that doesn’t show up in a background check. My therapist just shrugged her shoulders, and said “moving along”......


Why does a company care if he slept with your wife? Does this really work? Do you get a reply to your letters?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> If you are a Christian, Jesus is God. The point is that you can receive forgiveness and still have a price to pay.


I don't think you can actually. That's a contradiction. Either a debt is "forgiven" or "there is price to pay". You can't have both.



ConanHub said:


> Jesus paid your debt to God, not to the neighbor whose wife you're boinking or the society you committed a crime in.


Also this: "Jesus is God" and "Jesus paid your debt to God". I don't understand. If Jesus is God why does he need to pay someone's debt to himself? Why couldn't he just forgive without the whole sacrificing himself thing?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

I am a bit concerned about the whole letter sending thing; if companies do indeed take it seriously and hire people on the basis that they never had an affair in their CV, then anybody could send in a letter about anybody they don't like and just make **** up and then they would never get employment.

I don't quite understand how this is allowed. Are there perhaps other reasons he can't get employment?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> I don't think you can actually. That's a contradiction. Either a debt is "forgiven" or "there is price to pay". You can't have both.
> 
> 
> 
> Also this: "Jesus is God" and "Jesus paid your debt to God". I don't understand. If Jesus is God why does he need to pay someone's debt to himself? Why couldn't he just forgive without the whole sacrificing himself thing?


Jesus provided himself as a sacrifice for our sins. God provided himself as a sacrifice for our sins. It requires perfection and we lost that when Adam and Eve sinned. They passed their sin through the bloodline. This is why a blood sacrifice is required. Despite being born with a sin nature, Jesus being a human did not sin and was therefore able to be the sacrifice to bring peace between himself and people.

In order to understand this more fully, I recommend you read the Bible starting with Matthew. Read through the entire New Testament, then read the Old Testament starting with Genesis.

If you decide to do this for curiosity sake, even if you don't believe in God, ask God if he is real to reveal himself to you through your reading.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Why does a company care if he slept with your wife? Does this really work? Do you get a reply to your letters?




They don’t care he slept with my wife, they care because I say it was a workplace affair taking place on company time. Yes, it really works. I have not received any calls or replies to my letters.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> I am a bit concerned about the whole letter sending thing; if companies do indeed take it seriously and hire people on the basis that they never had an affair in their CV, then anybody could send in a letter about anybody they don't like and just make **** up and then they would never get employment.
> 
> I don't quite understand how this is allowed. Are there perhaps other reasons he can't get employment?





I’m biased and can’t really answer that question as to are there other reasons. However, let’s give this a shot shall we!! 
He’s spineless.
He’s more stupid than the average bear.
Oh never mind, you get the idea.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> Jesus provided himself as a sacrifice for our sins. God provided himself as a sacrifice for our sins. It requires perfection and we lost that when Adam and Eve sinned. They passed their sin through the bloodline. This is why a blood sacrifice is required. Despite being born with a sin nature, Jesus being a human did not sin and was therefore able to be the sacrifice to bring peace between himself and people.
> 
> In order to understand this more fully, I recommend you read the Bible starting with Matthew. Read through the entire New Testament, then read the Old Testament starting with Genesis.
> 
> If you decide to do this for curiosity sake, even if you don't believe in God, ask God if he is real to reveal himself to you through your reading.





Exactly, and just for the record I always liked the Old Testament better, I had more in common with that. The New Testament is what I am trying to work on more, it’s more forgiving rather then punishment. Even though I grew up with the New Testament, I related to the Old Testament better.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

drifting on said:


> Exactly, and just for the record I always liked the Old Testament better, I had more in common with that. The New Testament is what I am trying to work on more, it’s more forgiving rather then punishment. Even though I grew up with the New Testament, I related to the Old Testament better.


Haha I understand. But it was still God pouring out the judgement. I just got done reading the Old Testament. Reading through the prophets is interesting and a bit scary. Makes me think I need to get my attitude right.

Maybe you can related to Jonah regarding OM. Jonah did not want God to forgive those awful Ninevites.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

I think some men just can't be pussified.

IMO anyone that does something to destroy you, your family and future deserves consequences etc.

I see a lot of forgive, roll over and take it, etc. revenge is bad, etc.

Only a gutless coward doesn't defend himself. 

I'll say this too. Most women want a Strong MAN. It's the mindset.

Revenge if it's done well is very satisfying and brings good closure. It also makes life simpler, easier. If people know you it's a lot less you have to deal with for the most part.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Marc878 said:


> I think some men just can't be pussified.
> 
> IMO anyone that does something to destroy you, your family and future deserves consequences etc.
> 
> ...


This not about self defense or standing up for his family. The man is gone. Let him stay gone not only from his wife's life, but from the entire family and from his mind. This jerk OM is taking up space in drifting on's mind, therefore, he is still occupying space where he doesn't belong. Being strong is to let go and move forward away from the jerk. Everything that needed to be done has been done regarding OM.

Saying that revenge brings closure certainly isn't true here. There is no closure when it goes on and on, which is what is happening here. It will never end and the OM will never truly be out of the picture if Drifting On is dwelling on him, watching him, and involving himself in OM's life. There is zero closure in that, which is one of the reasons to forgive and move on.

It is a healthy boundary to let it go and get the man out of site and out of mind. He should be nothing but a bad memory rather than part of current events.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

We each must find our own way. Drifting On is very capable of figuring out his own life and what works best for him.

Advice or opinions aren't cookie cutter solutions for everyone.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

drifting on said:


> Exactly, and just for the record I always liked the Old Testament better, I had more in common with that. The New Testament is what I am trying to work on more, it’s more forgiving rather then punishment. Even though I grew up with the New Testament, I related to the Old Testament better.


So the solution is to live by the Old Testament when it comes to the OM but by the New Testament when it comes to your wife. Simples!


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> Only a gutless coward doesn't defend himself.
> 
> I'll say this too. Most women want a Strong MAN. It's the mindset.


I am not really sure writing letters anonymously to get someone fired is universally considered a 'strong MAN' thing. Maybe some will consider it strong.

I think if you decide to R and forgive, you take that decision seriously. And that includes moving on with your life and putting this whole thing behind you, if you can (that includes revenge stuff). If you can't, then don't R.



Marc878 said:


> Revenge if it's done well is very satisfying and brings good closure. It also makes life simpler, easier.


How on earth is that simpler? What if the other guy finds out? And it's extremely likely that he will. All the employer needs to do is ask him a question and show him the letter.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

inmyprime said:


> I am not really sure writing letters anonymously to get someone fired is universally considered a 'strong MAN' thing. Maybe some will consider it strong.
> 
> I think if you decide to R and forgive, you take that decision seriously. And that includes moving on with your life and putting this whole thing behind you, if you can (that includes revenge stuff). If you can't, then don't R.
> 
> ...


Oh, he will find out. So what. That's the point.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> Oh, he will find out. So what. That's the point.


Is it? Does he also have, I dunno, a gun? He may decide he has nothing to loose since he can't get a job anyway.


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

Even if you were wired like that to exact revenge it would fall unbelievably short unless your lover gave birth to twins. There's physical and spiritual permanency stemming from her betrayal and that was giving birth to her lovers children. I remain saddened quite frankly. You deserve better I believe. I am happy that you are still living and can at least love someone. That's the most important thing. 

Disclosure:My words in this post were from reading less than five sentences of your initial post on page 1. I recall your story but some stories are so brutal, I can't continue following them. Once I realized twins resulted from the affair in your previous posts I was done right then and there. Today, I mixed you up with another member, and didn't realize it until you mentioned the twins. Heart sank all over again. Still, happy you're alive and can look forward to another day. That's the best gift of all.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

inmyprime said:


> Is it? Does he also have, I dunno, a gun? He may decide he has nothing to loose since he can't get a job anyway.


Some live in fear of one thing or another their whole life. Others do not.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> I am not really sure writing letters anonymously to get someone fired is universally considered a 'strong MAN' thing. Maybe some will consider it strong.
> 
> I think if you decide to R and forgive, you take that decision seriously. And that includes moving on with your life and putting this whole thing behind you, if you can (that includes revenge stuff). If you can't, then don't R.
> 
> ...


You are probably not going to be able to comprehend the answers to your questions given your thought process is alien to the concept you are questioning.

I am a territorial male, pretty easy going until someone intrudes on my turf.

Doing damage to interlopers is very effective in dissuading future transgressions and keeps you fit to defend in the future.

Years ago, a man crossed the line with the future Mrs. Conan. When I was barely into my retaliation, the man in question decided to get down on his knees in public and beg her forgiveness.

Needless to say, we never had trouble from him again or anyone else who knew about it for that matter.

A very small investment of my time and energy remedied the situation and prevented many future problems as well.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Is it? Does he also have, I dunno, a gun? He may decide he has nothing to loose since he can't get a job anyway.


Yeah.....poor baby.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> You are probably not going to be able to comprehend the answers to your questions given your thought process is alien to the concept you are questioning.
> 
> I am a territorial male, pretty easy going *until someone intrudes on my turf.*


If you are equating your wife with your 'turf', I would comprehend it as long as your wife didn't give consent and the intruder intruded on *her* turf *against her will*. Even in this kind of situation, you don't 'handle' it yourself (unless it is self defence or defending someone's life), you hand it to authorities.

However none of this happened. Nobody intruded on anyone's turf, the turf offered itself up for grabs and was quickly snapped up.

The misdirected anger may be satisfying and fun to play, I am just pointing out a potential consequence, in case it hasn't been considered properly and in case the 'intruder' has a crappy sense of humour.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Years ago, a man crossed the line with the future Mrs. Conan. When I was barely into my retaliation, the man in question decided to get down on his knees in public and beg her forgiveness.


That's a different situation. You don't say exactly what happened but I surmise that she did not agree to whatever it was that was happening to her and that you were protecting her.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> If you are equating your wife with your 'turf', I would comprehend it as long as your wife didn't give consent and the intruder intruded on *her* turf *against her will*. Even in this kind of situation, you don't 'handle' it yourself (unless it is self defence or defending someone's life), you hand it to authorities.
> 
> However none of this happened. Nobody intruded on anyone's turf, the turf offered itself up for grabs and was quickly snapped up.
> 
> The misdirected anger may be satisfying and fun to play, I am just pointing out a potential consequence, in case it hasn't been considered properly and in case the 'intruder' has a crappy sense of humour.


Too bad for the intruder, until there is a divorce, or a break up in case of a gf, she is my territory by my standards and any intruder is less intelligent than cabbage to think otherwise.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> That's a different situation. You don't say exactly what happened but I surmise that she did not agree to whatever it was that was happening to her and that you were protecting her.


You are correct. If she would have welcomed it, he still would have paid a price but she would have been kicked to the curb on top of it.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> You are correct. If she would have welcomed it, he still would have paid a price but she would have been kicked to the curb on top of it.


Exactly


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> Is it? Does he also have, I dunno, a gun? He may decide he has nothing to loose since he can't get a job anyway.


 Seeing as your in London, apparently, you should be more worried about steak knives than guns.
Speaking of pussified.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Marc878 said:


> We each must find our own way. Drifting On is very capable of figuring out his own life and what works best for him.
> 
> Advice or opinions aren't cookie cutter solutions for everyone.





This is very true, OM does not occupy much of my mind. Previously I said I will cease any employment endeavors to have him terminated. I told @CynthiaDe I will stop and I will. The way I learn OM is working is when talking to mutual friends, so I’m not seeking to know, it’s more like just talking to a couple of buddies. Truthfully, I enjoyed knowing he was hurt by his impact to his wallet, that and reputation are most important to OM. I’m a quiet person, one who studies habits of humans, and I studied OM very much early on. That doesn’t get forgotten, instead it’s articulate intelligence in knowing the enemy. Knowing how to hurt your enemy the hardest, with very little energy exuded. This is why infidelity is thought of as an invasion to me, my marriage, an act of war that will have retaliation.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> This not about self defense or standing up for his family. The man is gone. Let him stay gone not only from his wife's life, but from the entire family and from his mind. This jerk OM is taking up space in drifting on's mind, therefore, he is still occupying space where he doesn't belong. Being strong is to let go and move forward away from the jerk. Everything that needed to be done has been done regarding OM.
> 
> Saying that revenge brings closure certainly isn't true here. There is no closure when it goes on and on, which is what is happening here. It will never end and the OM will never truly be out of the picture if Drifting On is dwelling on him, watching him, and involving himself in OM's life. There is zero closure in that, which is one of the reasons to forgive and move on.
> 
> It is a healthy boundary to let it go and get the man out of site and out of mind. He should be nothing but a bad memory rather than part of current events.


 I have placed so much thought in your posts on this thread, I understand what you are telling me. OM is gone, no more occupying space, unless I’m writing of him here. Even then it’s not angry or sad, I am indifferent to OM. Thank you, genuinely I thank you for your posts. God bless.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> So the solution is to live by the Old Testament when it comes to the OM but by the New Testament when it comes to your wife. Simples!





No, but let me try to explain this again. I identify with the Old Testament better then I do the New Testament. Learning to forgive is somewhat foreign to me on the scale that I did forgive. If you think my wife showed some remorse and I jumped up and down cheering and saying I forgive you, let’s reconcile, you’re wrong. My wife had her feet held to the fire, they will be again as she sits on the chair of atonement with Jesus. Her choices came with consequences, some applied by me and some not. That is my wife’s to work to do, not mine, and while I believe in punishment, I know I’m not the one to judge. I have forgiven my wife, she has done the heavy work, she suffered the consequences, and when the boys are told she will suffer again. I’m learning the New Testament, forgiving was difficult to do, for my wife, but OM is not worthy of forgiveness by me. OM did not go through what my wife did, he suffered minimal consequences compared to my wife.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> I am not really sure writing letters anonymously to get someone fired is universally considered a 'strong MAN' thing. Maybe some will consider it strong.
> 
> I think if you decide to R and forgive, you take that decision seriously. And that includes moving on with your life and putting this whole thing behind you, if you can (that includes revenge stuff). If you can't, then don't R.
> 
> ...





If OM knows it’s me, I’m fine with it, he can knock on my door anytime, somehow I don’t think he will. As for the letter, may not seem strong, but it is when it impacts one of the two most important things to OM. Wallet and reputation, that’s most important to OM. So when his wallet is affected, he hurts, and don’t forget about a glancing blow to reputation. OM now lives with another company knowing the true him.


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

Does the OM know he is the biological father to your twins.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Is it? Does he also have, I dunno, a gun? He may decide he has nothing to loose since he can't get a job anyway.





OM has weapons, so do I, and he knows that. As for what does he have to lose? Probably as much as you would have to lose, the biggest being the ability to breathe. I’m not going up against Rambo, or a decorated veteran, just your average joe on any neighborhood block. I wear a target on my back all day in a city well known for it's violent crime. We’ve had more killed in a month then many months compared to the Iraq war. There’s several shootings a day where I work, and to many we are targets to the entire nation. If I feared OM and his weapons I wouldn’t be able to perform my job. Simple as that.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> If you are equating your wife with your 'turf', I would comprehend it as long as your wife didn't give consent and the intruder intruded on *her* turf *against her will*. Even in this kind of situation, you don't 'handle' it yourself (unless it is self defence or defending someone's life), you hand it to authorities.
> 
> However none of this happened. Nobody intruded on anyone's turf, the turf offered itself up for grabs and was quickly snapped up.
> 
> The misdirected anger may be satisfying and fun to play, I am just pointing out a potential consequence, in case it hasn't been considered properly and in case the 'intruder' has a crappy sense of humour.





I’ve been reading your posts, along with the intensity in what you’ve posted here and in other threads. Here you have said sending a letter isn’t strength, to which you may be right. But it impacts OM in a way that is most important to him, not me. My way has far too many consequences, but OM can do nothing about a letter if it only contains facts. 

My wife is not really my turf, my marriage is, and when someone invaded that marriage it has a consequence. My wife accepted those advances, I did not, so I may respond in any manner I see fit, and to me it’s an act of war. If you don’t want trouble, don’t go after a married woman whose married to someone you hardly know. Instead try this, go have sex with your buddies wife, see how he reacts, then tell him to go to the authorities. See what he says to you then, see the look in his eyes, and if he stomps your a$$ because of what you did then ask your other friends if you deserved that a$$ kicking. I’ll bet you all but maybe one will say you deserved it. Oh, then tell your buddy your wife accepted your advances, so the turf was up for grabs anyway. How much you want to bet you get another a$$ kicking? 

What you have posted here is mired in fear, Thoughts not based on reality at best. I don’t dislike you nor am I angry at you, but you have very different thoughts on infidelity then I do. You see, you wouldn’t want to know, and that’s your right, but not everyone is like that. You have no idea if your wife has cheated or not, which means you may be living a lie. I can’t do that, but you can, and yet you sit behind fear that she has so you don’t want to know. I perceive that as weaker then sending a letter. I consider your turf or wife as unprotected and up for grabs as you say. I say this because it is my opinion based upon what you’ve posted. I see you with yours eyes closed shut, hands over your ears screaming blah blah blah to your wife. All because you fear if she cheated. Does that sound strong or weak to you. Again, it’s just my perception and my opinion, but if your wife cheated and you knew, I’m sure your posts may be different. 

Finally, I have consulted an attorney, have his ok to send the letters, without consequence legally. I don’t jeopardize my family, I protect them, yet I have never protected my wife here. It’s not my place to because she was capable, and did. Now she has changed, I protect her as I do my family, and they are safer then most families, as I will give my life protecting them.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> That's a different situation. You don't say exactly what happened but I surmise that she did not agree to whatever it was that was happening to her and that you were protecting her.




Not really, if she did or didn’t agree it’s obvious her spouse or boyfriend didn’t agree with the actions. In fact she most likely told her spouse or boyfriend so she could be protected. In this case, Mrs. ConanHub was fully protected and has nothing to fear from this idiot again.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

TheBohannons said:


> Does the OM know he is the biological father to your twins.





Officially no, unofficially, yes. My wife told OM it was a possibility the twins were his. He has not been told if he is or not. Per my attorney he does not want to notify OM yet. I can’t say why but I can say it’s to protect the boys.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

drifting on said:


> No, but let me try to explain this again. I identify with the Old Testament better then I do the New Testament. Learning to forgive is somewhat foreign to me on the scale that I did forgive. If you think my wife showed some remorse and I jumped up and down cheering and saying I forgive you, let’s reconcile, you’re wrong. My wife had her feet held to the fire, they will be again as she sits on the chair of atonement with Jesus. Her choices came with consequences, some applied by me and some not. That is my wife’s to work to do, not mine, and while I believe in punishment, I know I’m not the one to judge. I have forgiven my wife, she has done the heavy work, she suffered the consequences, and when the boys are told she will suffer again. I’m learning the New Testament, forgiving was difficult to do, for my wife, but OM is not worthy of forgiveness by me. OM did not go through what my wife did, he suffered minimal consequences compared to my wife.


However you want to word it, the fact is that you DID forgive your wife else you would not be with her now (regardless of how much you think you held her feet to the fire).

On the other hand you have more than held the OM's feet to the fire (you actually burned him completely a couple of times) even though he did not come close to doing as much wrong to you as your wife.

It seems like you have not really come to terms with your situation and need to take it out on someone so you chose the OM instead of your wife. You really need to work on this as it will eventually drive you nuts.

I understand that you wear a target on your back and all that stuff, but the danger you face is not as obvious as that. Your wife could have the following perspective right now:



She needs to appear to say and do anything to keep you in this marriage while the kids are growing up.


She will gladly throw the OM under a bus in so doing even though he gave her two kids where you could not.


She sees you as petty and vindictive and this will cause her to resent you even further.


Once the kids have grown up, and she is financially stable as a result of the "marriage", she really will have no further use for you.


The kids may eventually be told who their father is with embellishments on how you behaved leading up to her being with their biological father and also after.



All this and the possibility of him getting back at you when you least see it coming. 

By the way, if the above is true, it paints an even more damning picture of your wife.


You need to get therapy in dealing with your real issues and I still maintain that while I wish you the best with your reconciliation, you are not really there yet and still need a lot of help.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> However you want to word it, the fact is that you DID forgive your wife else you would not be with her now (regardless of how much you think you held her feet to the fire).
> 
> On the other hand you have more than held the OM's feet to the fire (you actually burned him completely a couple of times) even though he did not come close to doing as much wrong to you as your wife.
> 
> ...





I would say I agree with your second to last paragraph. The above isn’t true, but I will agree that we are not without more work to do. At this point in time I would say what I’ve said before, reconciliation doesn’t really ever end. It must be worked on each and every day, effective communication, meeting each other’s needs and wants, that all has to be worked on each and every day. It can’t go to autopilot, or coast so to speak. This why I think at times reconciliation doesn’t end. I thank you for the well wishes.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Seeing as your in London, apparently, you should be more worried about steak knives than guns.
> 
> Speaking of pussified.



I’m not especially worried about either as I’m not terrorising/carrying out revenge on anyone. What has your point got to do with anything?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

drifting on said:


> I’ve been reading your posts, along with the intensity in what you’ve posted here and in other threads. Here you have said sending a letter isn’t strength, to which you may be right. But it impacts OM in a way that is most important to him, not me. My way has far too many consequences, but OM can do nothing about a letter if it only contains facts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think you misunderstand. If my wife had an affair for 6 months and also gave birth to kids that weren’t my own, of course I would want to know. I would NEED to know.

I was referring to a thoughtless, one night stand in the other thread. Don’t know why people can’t tell the difference..But there’s a big difference between one mistake and a long, drawn out, premeditated affair plus with kids involved.

I also was not comparing what I would do in your situation as better or worse, I’m pointing out the obvious risks to you and as long as you are fine with them, it’s obviously up to you what you decide to do.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

drifting on said:


> OM now lives with another company knowing the true him.



‘Lives with another company’? I thought he was fired.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

drifting on said:


> Not really, if she did or didn’t agree it’s obvious her spouse or boyfriend didn’t agree with the actions. In fact she most likely told her spouse or boyfriend so she could be protected. In this case, Mrs. ConanHub was fully protected and has nothing to fear from this idiot again.



Yes but yours is a different situation. You may not have agreed with your wife’s actions however those were HER actions, based on her consent. The OM didn’t do anything against her will so Conan’s situation was totally different.

I am not saying your actions and thinking are not understandable (and I’m not so much criticising them as pointing out the risks), just that it’s better to call a spade a spade: the reason for the letters are due to revenge. You excuse it using your family's safety as reason however, whether he works or not has no impact on your family’s or your wife’s well being.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

drifting on said:


> ...she suffered the consequences, and *when the boys are told she will suffer again*.


About the above...
The reason people have pointed out that perhaps you should reconsider approaching the whole thing with some kind of retribution in mind (there can't be retribution; if you want retribution or for there to be consequences, you should not R) is that people don't make the best decisions when retribution is dominating their mind. 

Why do you think it's your wife who will suffer when you plan to tell your kids? It's most likely that the kids will suffer the most. Have you seen a professional counsellor regarding this issue? (When and how to tell your kids). This is a serious decision. Most advocate making the whole thing as gently and smoothly as possible for the kids: if the parents are not their biological parents, they advise to slip the topic into conversation between the ages 2 and 4 and make it seem like a normal thing. Kids are more likely to think that it's fairly usual that they don't carry their parents DNA (you really don't need to go into specifics of why). And it's not that uncommon in fact, especially given how many adoptions take place.

This situation is slightly different in that only one parent is biological and the other is not. However dumping this on them when they are 18 may hit them in such a traumatic way that you cannot really predict. They may blame you for not telling them earlier or they might have some other crisis you just cannot predict. Do you really think it is in their best interest to receive this news as a shock in one blow like that?

The way you write seems that the reason you decided to tell them when they are 18 is to provide another blow to your wife: this is completely immoral to use your kids like this. You should really work through your issues with a professional. I am not sure you understand what R actually is if you feel that it's a 'continuous process'. Marriage is a continuous process, retribution can be a continuous process, *R isn't.*

Don't take what I post the wrong way: it may sound like I'm criticising you, I am not. I am trying to make you think about these issues using the rational part of your brain. I know and sympathise that what you and your marriage went through is one of the hardest things a partnership can go through but just because you managed to stay together, doesn't mean that you managed to achieve reconciliation and move to a place that gives you and your family sufficiently good enough odds to make it and not harm each others (and your kids') lives.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> I’m not especially worried about either as I’m not terrorising/carrying out revenge on anyone. What has your point got to do with anything?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 See post #94, drifting on made my point quite well. Your over the top melodrama and hoplophobia isn't the norm for everyone. Some folks do what they feel they should without fear, and are fully prepared to handle it themselves if the need arises. Drifting On is obviously one of them as well as a bunch of others here on TAM. Apparently, you are not. That's my point, as valid as yours, like it or not.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Yes but yours is a different situation. You may not have agreed with your wife’s actions however those were HER actions, based on her consent. The OM didn’t do anything against her will so Conan’s situation was totally different.
> 
> I am not saying your actions and thinking are not understandable (and I’m not so much criticising them as pointing out the risks), just that it’s better to call a spade a spade: the reason for the letters are due to revenge. You excuse it using your family's safety as reason however, whether he works or not has no impact on your family’s or your wife’s well being.
> 
> ...


You don't understand the concept.

An enemy at bay or on the defensive or being routed is the best way to keep what is yours safe.

OM also hasn't repented as far as I can tell. Regardless, if OM wants peace, OM should move, far away and keep his slimy pecker where it belongs from now on.

drifting isn't doing anything illegal, immoral or against scripture for that matter.

Revenge would look quite different than what is taking place.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Rubix Cubed said:


> See post #94, drifting on made my point quite well. Your over the top melodrama and hoplophobia isn't the norm for everyone. Some folks do what they feel they should without fear, and are fully prepared to handle it themselves if the need arises. Drifting On is obviously one of them as well as a bunch of others here on TAM. *Apparently, you are not.* That's my point, as valid as yours, like it or not.


You are not making any sense: I am not what? Not living in fear? Not sending anonymous letters? Not shooting people? No, I am not doing any of that. What's your point?

This thread is not about me at all: how I live my life is entirely irrelevant.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> You don't understand the concept.
> 
> An enemy at bay or on the defensive or being routed is the best way to keep what is yours safe.
> 
> ...


The most important issue in all of this is making sure the kids are not used in any way as a tool to inflict pain on the wife, as per his sentence: 'when the boys are told she will suffer again'.

Everything else pales into insignificance in this thread.
I am surprised nobody commented about this. It's something to discuss with a professional.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> The most important issue in all of this is making sure the kids are not used in any way as a tool to inflict pain on the wife, as per his sentence: 'when the boys are told she will suffer again'.
> 
> Everything else pales into insignificance in this thread.
> I am surprised nobody commented about this. It's something to discuss with a professional.


You simply lack information. He is extremely considerate of the twins' wellbeing.

His wife will suffer from her own terrible behavior, to have to endure the pain of her children knowing what she did.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> You simply lack information.


I am sure I do but has he been to a professional counsellor to specifically address what is the least traumatic way to let the children know when one of the parents is not their biological parent?
I would very much doubt anyone would advise to wait until the kids are 18 years old without pointing out that there is a high risk of it being highly traumatic for them. When there is a choice available to 'ease them in' with this information (without going to specifics until they are much older), it seems to me that waiting knowingly would be an immoral thing to do, regardless whose fault it was.



ConanHub said:


> He is extremely considerate of the twins' wellbeing. His wife will suffer from her own terrible behavior, to have to endure the pain of her children knowing what she did.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

_Waiting until adolescence to reveal a child's adoption to him or her is not recommended. "Disclosure at that time can be devastating to children's self-esteem," says Dr. Nickman, "and to their faith in their parents."_

https://www.parents.com/parenting/a...should-we-tell-our-child-that-he-was-adopted/

I know this is about adoption but it is the same principle (when one is not a biological parent). This should be given serious thought, coming from the right place..


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> This thread is not about me at all: how I live *my life is entirely irrelevant*.


 You're right it's not about, you even though 12 of the last 30 posts are by you.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Rubix Cubed said:


> You're right it's not about, you even though 12 of the last 30 posts are by you.


Yes, and none of them are about me. What's your point? (is there an echo in here).


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> The most important issue in all of this is making sure the kids are not used in any way as a tool to inflict pain on the wife, as per his sentence: 'when the boys are told she will suffer again'.
> 
> Everything else pales into insignificance in this thread.
> I am surprised nobody commented about this. It's something to discuss with a professional.





You obviously have no idea what type of person I am, and that’s ok. In many other threads I have explained how the boys will be told. It will be in a therapeutic setting with a thereapist at the age appropriate time. I work side by side with medical professionals and have been given a very good plan and advice. Not one day have the boys been tools, they never will be, but the fact you bring it up is simply ignorant. Before you come post something so ignorant do a little checking, ask me a question if you’re befuddled. But if you come to my thread thinking either my wife or myself are using the boys as tools, just shut your computer off. Do I mean to be harsh? No. I say God brought these children to my feet to raise to the best of my ability. I have done that since day one and haven’t changed at all after I found they aren’t mine biologically. 

As for my wife suffering again, then read ConanHubs reply, that is exactly what I meant. She will suffer from her own actions, not mine, and I can’t do anything to even minimize the blow. It will be hers to own fully, she made the choices, not me. So yes, she will suffer when the boys are told whether in a tharepeutic setting or anywhere else, it can’t be avoided. 

If you have any other questions I can answer for you let me know. I wouldn’t come back to this thread saying the boys are being used as tools though, not with the way my wife and I are raising them. I will tell you this, that comment has had me lose all respect that I did manage to have for you, I take that comment as one who is baiting others for being banned. You may just want to move your yourself to another thread.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Yes, and none of them are about me. What's your point? (is there an echo in here).





There might be, between the right and left ear.😜


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

drifting on said:


> You obviously have no idea what type of person I am, and that’s ok. In many other threads I have explained how the boys will be told. It will be in a therapeutic setting with a thereapist at the age appropriate time. I work side by side with medical professionals and have been given a very good plan and advice. Not one day have the boys been tools, they never will be, but the fact you bring it up is simply ignorant. Before you come post something so ignorant do a little checking, ask me a question if you’re befuddled. But if you come to my thread thinking either my wife or myself are using the boys as tools, just shut your computer off. Do I mean to be harsh? No. I say God brought these children to my feet to raise to the best of my ability. I have done that since day one and haven’t changed at all after I found they aren’t mine biologically.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Drifting: there’s no need to threaten people. You wrote that you plan on telling the kids when they are 18. I picked up on that comment and asked whether you consulted professionals whether this is indeed the best age to do this since it is contrary to all that I have read (while technically and legally you are within your rights of course). There’s no need to take this comment personally; my comment was with your kids’ well-being in mind. If, as you now wrote, you have a team of medical professionals who advised you that 18 is indeed the appropriate age for them to be exposed to this, then that answers my question.
I wish you and your family all best through this difficult time.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Drifting: there’s no need to threaten people. You wrote that you plan on telling the kids when they are 18. I picked up on that comment and asked whether you consulted professionals whether this is indeed the best age to do this since it is contrary to all that I have read (while technically and legally you are within your rights of course). There’s no need to take this comment personally; my comment was with your kids’ well-being in mind. If, as you now wrote, you have a team of medical professionals who advised you that 18 is indeed the appropriate age for them to be exposed to this, then that answers my question.
> I wish you and your family all best through this difficult time.
> 
> 
> ...





Exactly where did I threaten you or “people” as you say?


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

I have read too many times to remember many professionals
saying that a child is best told about bio parents soon as they
are able to understand it. Usually 6 years.

You have another dad. You were adopted, etc.


At that young age they will ask simple questions.
Requiring simple answers. Mom had you with another man.
They accept that because they do not know where kids
come from.

As they get older, and they become more aware they will
ask more detailed questions. As the parent tell some more
the child will feel secure because their parents have never
lied to them. This leads them to not having issues having a
D day of their own when they turn 18 or older.

Delaying


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Moderator's warning:-*

Please keep it civil, folks.


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

Hi, I've been a lurker for over a year but I was reading this thread and just felt compelled to comment. From two similar situations with my mother and my husband, this post has really struck a chord.

Has the OM terminated his parental rights, and have you legally adopted the boys? That might make a difference helping them transition to the knowledge that they have a different bio dad. If they know he refused to keep them, it would hurt, but it would also reassure them that you were always there for them despite that and they will continue their bond with you as their father. If the OM wasn't given the option to terminate his rights, then chances are they'll try to establish a relationship with him, because they might think he wasn't given a fair chance. I know it doesn't make sense and isn't logical, but children are so ingrained to love and want acceptance from their bio parents. I've seen this time and again with my mother, husband and BIL, who had different bio parents that who they lived with but weren't legally adopted. They always held out hope that their bio parents loved them.

You say your wife realized she made a mistake and over the years has done hard work to make up for the mistake she made. If your wife has come to this realization, don't you think it's possible the OM has, too? He might truly regret it and know it was a mistake as well. He is a human being capable of growth just like any of us. Gently, I just caution that trying to stop him from gainful employment seems like it could really backfire. I'm not diminishing what he did at all. It's just that he and your wife engaged in a consensual relationship, which happened to produce children between them. You've forgiven your wife. You don't have to forgive him of course. But I just mean if you can find it in your heart to forgive her, after she broke vows, then you can possibly use that same grace to let the OM go and find his own way in life.

I know it's probably very jarring to have a stranger comment on this thread. My apologies. I mean no ill intention. I'm a woman and my husband of 11 years left me to be free to pursue all his options. I know the pain of a spouse cheating and in my case leaving. I read a lot here at TAM and it helped a ton to heal and move forward in my situation. My situation isn't like yours but my husband and mother both went through issues these of paternity, non-legal adoption and abandonment of bio parents. The hurt children feel stemming from that can last a very long time, and it's very sad.  Peace to you


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

azimuth said:


> Hi, I've been a lurker for over a year but I was reading this thread and just felt compelled to comment. From two similar situations with my mother and my husband, this post has really struck a chord.
> 
> Has the OM terminated his parental rights, and have you legally adopted the boys? That might make a difference helping them transition to the knowledge that they have a different bio dad. If they know he refused to keep them, it would hurt, but it would also reassure them that you were always there for them despite that and they will continue their bond with you as their father. If the OM wasn't given the option to terminate his rights, then chances are they'll try to establish a relationship with him, because they might think he wasn't given a fair chance. I know it doesn't make sense and isn't logical, but children are so ingrained to love and want acceptance from their bio parents. I've seen this time and again with my mother, husband and BIL, who had different bio parents that who they lived with but weren't legally adopted. They always held out hope that their bio parents loved them.
> 
> ...





Thank you, I have more to add but I'm pressed for time at the moment and will post later regarding your post.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

drifting on said:


> You obviously have no idea what type of person I am, and that’s ok. In many other threads I have explained how the boys will be told. It will be in a therapeutic setting with a thereapist at the age appropriate time. I work side by side with medical professionals and have been given a very good plan and advice. Not one day have the boys been tools, they never will be, but the fact you bring it up is simply ignorant. Before you come post something so ignorant do a little checking, ask me a question if you’re befuddled. But if you come to my thread thinking either my wife or myself are using the boys as tools, just shut your computer off. Do I mean to be harsh? No. I say God brought these children to my feet to raise to the best of my ability. I have done that since day one and haven’t changed at all after I found they aren’t mine biologically.
> 
> As for my wife suffering again, then read ConanHubs reply, that is exactly what I meant. She will suffer from her own actions, not mine, and I can’t do anything to even minimize the blow. It will be hers to own fully, she made the choices, not me. So yes, she will suffer when the boys are told whether in a tharepeutic setting or anywhere else, it can’t be avoided.
> 
> If you have any other questions I can answer for you let me know. I wouldn’t come back to this thread saying the boys are being used as tools though, not with the way my wife and I are raising them. I will tell you this, that comment has had me lose all respect that I did manage to have for you, I take that comment as one who is baiting others for being banned. You may just want to move your yourself to another thread.


HI DO!!!
First let me say how much joy and hope I get whenever I read one of your posts. You are a light on a cloudy day!
I am sincerely grateful for all the support you have given me and others over the years. Wow....YEARS!

In reply to the ignorant (as in- uninformed) post from inmyprime......the opinion is to be dismissed and not considered. It is irrelevant to your nature, your love of god, and your fair treatment of others. Anyone who knows your history knows this to be true.
@ConanHub- hey there I have been so happy to see through your other posts all is well with you- you are one strong man! Excellent posting on behalf of your buddy. I couldnt have said it better!


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

azimuth said:


> Hi, I've been a lurker for over a year but I was reading this thread and just felt compelled to comment. From two similar situations with my mother and my husband, this post has really struck a chord.
> 
> Has the OM terminated his parental rights, and have you legally adopted the boys? That might make a difference helping them transition to the knowledge that they have a different bio dad. If they know he refused to keep them, it would hurt, but it would also reassure them that you were always there for them despite that and they will continue their bond with you as their father. If the OM wasn't given the option to terminate his rights, then chances are they'll try to establish a relationship with him, because they might think he wasn't given a fair chance. I know it doesn't make sense and isn't logical, but children are so ingrained to love and want acceptance from their bio parents. I've seen this time and again with my mother, husband and BIL, who had different bio parents that who they lived with but weren't legally adopted. They always held out hope that their bio parents loved them.
> 
> ...





I wish I could just say everything that would most likely have you all understand the plan in place for this horrible situation. Unfortunately my lawyer has expressed what to say and what not to say. I can say this, OM does not know, has told my wife when they discussed this that he wants nothing to do with the kids. Actually OM saying that had a profound effect on my wife. I can’t say that even if OM terminated his rights that the boys may still want some form of relationship. What caused confusion earlier was that I said the boys could search for OM after turning eighteen and that I would even help them find OM. They will be told earlier, and at sixteen, if they present a desire to meet OM, I may allow it. The circumstances as to why will be heavily considered at that time. I won’t forbid the boys from OM, as much as I’d like too, I have to consider the feelings of the boys here. 

I very much appreciate your post, and I hope that you find peace and happiness in your life. You have given me much to consider, I genuinely appreciate your post.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

NJ2 said:


> HI DO!!!
> First let me say how much joy and hope I get whenever I read one of your posts. You are a light on a cloudy day!
> I am sincerely grateful for all the support you have given me and others over the years. Wow....YEARS!
> 
> ...




Thank you NJ2, I should have stepped back and allowed myself to calm before replying. I’m human as you know, I allowed myself to post from anger, clearly I should have chosen my words more carefully. Thank you for being a calm in the storm for me here. Hope you are doing well.


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

drifting on said:


> I wish I could just say everything that would most likely have you all understand the plan in place for this horrible situation. Unfortunately my lawyer has expressed what to say and what not to say. I can say this, OM does not know, has told my wife when they discussed this that he wants nothing to do with the kids. Actually OM saying that had a profound effect on my wife. I can’t say that even if OM terminated his rights that the boys may still want some form of relationship. What caused confusion earlier was that I said the boys could search for OM after turning eighteen and that I would even help them find OM. They will be told earlier, and at sixteen, if they present a desire to meet OM, I may allow it. The circumstances as to why will be heavily considered at that time. I won’t forbid the boys from OM, as much as I’d like too, I have to consider the feelings of the boys here.
> 
> I very much appreciate your post, and I hope that you find peace and happiness in your life. You have given me much to consider, I genuinely appreciate your post.



Thank you and I wish you all peace and love for the future. These kinds of situations are so hard and sad. When my mother was a baby she was "given away" to a wealthy family, this was in the 50's and didn't go through any legal channels. She was so hurt because her bio mom "kept" her other children and even had one more after she had given my mom up whom she also kept. Mom didn't know until she was about 14 when a sibling contacted her. Me, growing up as her daughter was extremely hard to watch her go through these emotions. She tried really hard to fit into her bio family, and I knew her bio family much better than the adopted one. Even though her life was 10 billion times better in her adopted family she was very drawn to the bio. I don't want to make my post super long but as I said earlier the same kind of thing happened to my STBXH when he was a kid and adult. Your story really resonates with me. I cry for all involved. It looks like you are handling it very well, focused on what's best for the children. Best of luck to you all.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

drifting on said:


> I wish I could just say everything that would most likely have you all understand the plan in place for this horrible situation. Unfortunately my lawyer has expressed what to say and what not to say. I can say this, OM does not know, has told my wife when they discussed this that he wants nothing to do with the kids. Actually OM saying that had a profound effect on my wife. I can’t say that even if OM terminated his rights that the boys may still want some form of relationship. What caused confusion earlier was that I said the boys could search for OM after turning eighteen and that I would even help them find OM. They will be told earlier, and at sixteen, if they present a desire to meet OM, I may allow it. The circumstances as to why will be heavily considered at that time. I won’t forbid the boys from OM, as much as I’d like too, I have to consider the feelings of the boys here.
> 
> I very much appreciate your post, and I hope that you find peace and happiness in your life. You have given me much to consider, I genuinely appreciate your post.


What was the profound effect and Why did it have a profound effect on your wife? Was she expecting a different response?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

BruceBanner said:


> REDACTED BY MODERATOR


Good grief. He is not choosing to be a cuckold. His wife was an adulterous wife without his knowledge, let alone his consent. He believes that she is repentant and is no longer an adulterous wife. Choosing to forgive someone and to work through problems is not separate from indignation or justice.

The fertility problem is with drifting on. He is unable to reproduce, so commenting about "genetic death" to a man who is unable to reproduce is extremely rude.

He is not helping to spread anyone's seed. He is helping to raise someone else's biological child, which in a way could be the ultimate consequence, because the man has been denied any parental rights. He has zero say in how those children are raised and it's a good thing because rather than being raised by a scoundrel, they are being raised by a good man who will teach them how to be good men as well. Two less children for the OM to mess up who would likely become scoundrels if OM raised them. These boys will not even carry OM's name. They will carry Drifting On's name.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

That post was awful. I am glad it was deleted, but I have to stick up for DO. What he has chosen to do was make the best of a very bad situation. When he found out he was already 2 years in love with kids as he was led to believe they were his. He decided to sacrifice the pain that that causes and love those kids like his own. The only bad person in this story is his wife. She has repented and he decided to make the best of that as well. 

I personally have great respect for how handled being their father. His choice with his wife would not be my choice but it's his life and one that takes a whole lot of strength. In all his posts I do not see him as a pushover, he is a very good man. Where would his kids be if he abandoned them. That would just compound a problem. His kids were Innocent. Once you have children a true man makes decisions with their needs in mind first. That is what DO has done. For that an a whole host of other reasons he is their father. 

Look few things make me more mad then paternity fraud but I choose to judge the guilty not the innocent. Lay off the dude, he is a good man.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> Good grief. He is not choosing to be a cuckold. Choosing to forgive someone and to work through problems is not separate from indignation or justice.
> 
> The fertility problem is with drifting on. He is unable to reproduce, so commenting about "genetic death" to a man who is unable to reproduce is extremely rude.
> 
> He is not helping to spread anyone's seed. He is helping to raise someone else's biological child, which in a way could be the ultimate consequence, because the man has been denied any parental rights. He has zero say in how those children are raised and it's a good thing because rather than being raised by a scoundrel, they are being raised by a good man who will teach them how to be good men as well. Two less children for the OM to mess up who would likely become scoundrels if OM raised them. These boys will not even carry OM's name. They will carry Drifting On's name.



Okay then, how is he/OP not a cuckold? Choosing to forgive someone and to work through problems is separate from indignation or justice when the appropriate punishment for an unfaithful wife who cucks her husband would be enduring single motherhood and legitimately suffering for her deceit. How is it justice when her comfortable life is likely still all intact?

How is he not helping to spread someone else's seed when the twins will likely have children of their own when they grow up? OP is literally giving the OM free reproductive benefits/advantage. The man being denied any parental rights means **** all when he likely didn't want to be a genuine father in the first place. Men and women know unprotected sex leads to children as a consequence. He knew there was a possibility of him being a father when he was blowing his load into OP's wife's uterus and I'm sure he planned on bailing it the **** out of there since the beginning.

You're right, they won't carry OM's name or teachings but they will carry on his genetic code, now won't they?


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

sokillme said:


> His kids were Innocent...


So is OP. There is no shame in a man deciding to bail when he figures out the kids aren't his. I don't give a **** what the law says, which by the way promotes cuckoldry in many places.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

BruceBanner said:


> So is OP. There is no shame in a man deciding to bail when he figures out the kids aren't his. I don't give a **** what the law says, which by the way promotes cuckoldry in many places.


And people wonder why the family courthouses favor mothers. It's a non-stop parade of 'men' that think and act like this and makes recognizing the legitimate decent fathers very difficult.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

Quality said:


> And people wonder why the family courthouses favor mothers. It's a non-stop parade of 'men' that think and act like this and makes recognizing the legitimate decent fathers very difficult.


Who told you I was a man? Are you implying women can't be angry over paternity fraud? When a woman's son gets cucked so does she. If he doesn't pass on his DNA then neither does she. That's why the male species are a risky investment in terms of passing on your genetic code. A woman always knows the baby is hers. The male not so much. 

Are you justifying the courthouses favoring mothers because I am a "disagreeable" person who said something "disagreeable"? Also are you implying it's wrong for a man to bail on "his kids" when he figures out they aren't really his? Being law does not automatically make something and everything right.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

BruceBanner said:


> So is OP. There is no shame in a man deciding to bail when he figures out the kids aren't his. I don't give a **** what the law says, which by the way promotes cuckoldry in many places.


There is also no shame in staying and raising kids you love. Are men who adopt cucks too? Just stop, you are being really unfair to a very honorable man. That reflects on you man not him.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Quality said:


> And people wonder why the family courthouses favor mothers. It's a non-stop parade of 'men' that think and act like this and makes recognizing the legitimate decent fathers very difficult.


Your not helping either, no man should HAVE to support a kid who is not his. I don't like his tone but he is right in the idea that no man should have to. I personally am in favor of DNA testing at child birth for that reason. Just look at the other thread and what it has done to this innocent women who found out that her whole childhood was a lie.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

sokillme said:


> There is also no shame in staying and raising kids you love. Are men who adopt cucks too? Just stop, you are being really unfair to a very honorable man. That reflects on you man not him.


Men who adopt weren't deceived into thinking the kids they are currently raising or will be raising are genetically theirs. That's the big difference.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

BruceBanner said:


> Who told you I was a man? Are you implying women can't be angry over paternity fraud? When a woman's son gets cucked so does she. If he doesn't pass on his DNA then neither does she. That's why the male species are a risky investment in terms of passing on your genetic code. A woman always knows the baby is hers. The male not so much.
> 
> Are you justifying the courthouses favoring mothers because I am a "disagreeable" person who said something "disagreeable"? Also are you implying it's wrong for a man to bail on "his kids" when he figures out they aren't really his? Being law does not automatically make something and everything right.


Ohhhh..you were chixsplaining. You should leave the defining of men ---- to men. 

Lot's of mothers have sons that adopt children for various reasons, love their grandchildren and don't throw tirades.

And the courthouses TEND to favor women because they are, quite often, an endless parade of 'modern men' incapable and unwilling to take care of their own biological children, let alone non-biological children they are legally responsible for. Men have to proceed very carefully in family court lest they be mistaken as one of the herd of responsibility shrugging men. Men that don't want to raise other men's kids ---- ever ---- should bio-test their children upon birth so they can have 100% assurance too. 

And I'm not judging whether it's "right or wrong" for another man to bail on his kids or not. As a man, I might feel one way or another about any particular situation given the circumstances; but, in the end, it's not my life, I haven't personally experienced it and I trust and respect the thoughtful and careful decisions Drifting has made for himself, his repentant former wayward wife and HIS children.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

BruceBanner said:


> Men who adopt weren't deceived into thinking the kids they are currently raising or will be raising are genetically theirs. That's the big difference.


DO is making a choice. He loves his kids even if they are not genetically his own. There are so many ****ty people in this world there has to be some forgiveness, and when it comes to innocent kids that isn't even the point. I get your anger at her, lots of us have it, but not him. Again this is a man of honor who doesn't deserves this. Besides that we are not talking about someone who just found out. I also get it if he was trying to make up his mind. I would be right there telling him not to do it, adopt the kids and find a better wife, but he chose to stay and by his words they are doing well. Again if she was still treating him awful I would also be right there saying protect yourself, but he made his choice. Don't take your anger out on him when he is the kind of man we need in this world. He is not a wimp and the choice was not made out of fear. I believe he made the choice because he loves his kids, there is great honor in that. The rest just happened to work out so far. 

I hope his wife reads this though, WS never get that this is part of what every BS has to deal with. He is disparaged because of her terrible choices. Hell most BS attack themselves for staying.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Your not helping either, no man should HAVE to support a kid who is not his. I don't like his tone but he is right in the idea that no man should have to. I personally am in favor of DNA testing at child birth for that reason. Just look at the other thread and what it has done to this innocent women who found out that her whole childhood was a lie.


Wasn't really trying to take the argument here. 

DNA tests are widely available now {to fathers OR even grandma's} and, in some {not sure} states, it is my understanding, a 'father' has up to 2 years to challenge paternity and relieve himself of "HAVING to support a kid who is not his", after that, he's legally obligated. He can walk out all he wants, but unless the mom let's him go, he'll be on the hook for support and just adding to the perception of "deadbeat fathers" in family courts.

Sure --- test away, good suggestion - until then caveat emptor.


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

10 characters


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

How do you know the OM said he wanted nothing to do with the children? Because your wife told you so? Really? He doesn't even know he has children.

If this is not true and he finds out and wants in HIS children's life, you will have no say in this matter.

While I will say that raising another man's child is a noble thing, keeping it from the biological father is not. You have no right to do that.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

TheBohannons said:


> How do you know the OM said he wanted nothing to do with the children? Because your wife told you so? Really? He doesn't even know he has children.
> 
> If this is not true and he finds out and wants in HIS children's life, you will have no say in this matter.
> 
> While I will say that raising another man's child is a noble thing, keeping it from the biological father is not. You have no right to do that.


If the OM really cared about whether he had kids or not he would've asked for a DNA test a long time ago.


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

Does any one really know what the OM knows, or what he said?

Sorry, but I would make sure I knew the truth from both sides if possible, and get the rights waved. It's hard to believe either side of a affair. I would not be to sure of anything the wife or the AP said. This is a projection from a sibling. Once he knew, the story changed. 

That's all.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

TheBohannons said:


> How do you know the OM said he wanted nothing to do with the children? Because your wife told you so? Really? He doesn't even know he has children.
> 
> If this is not true and he finds out and wants in HIS children's life, you will have no say in this matter.
> 
> While I will say that raising another man's child is a noble thing, keeping it from the biological father is not. You have no right to do that.


I disagree. 

If I were to find myself married raising another man's child {by choice or otherwise} that would make me that child's parent and the one responsible for that child's care and well-being. If the other man, bio-father were a repentant God-fearing Christian {or contrite and religious - decent} man that approached me outside of court|legal process honoring and respecting my position as that child's legal and present father, I'd like to think I might be open to permitting some kind of limited contact over the years maintaining strict boundaries of "no contact" between him and my wife {as a matter of accountability and best practices for the preservation and stability of our entire family}. However, were I {in consultation with my wife} to deem the bio-father unsuitable {very likely} then I'd have every right, even a duty, to protect my child from him. If the guy came sniffing around and threatening us, I'd be packing up the family and moving. 

I wouldn't want his money|support either.

Like the original poster - when the child is old enough and mature enough, in my estimation {in consultation with my wife and after prayerful consideration}, we'd share the story with our child and help the child fulfill his/her choices and desires based upon such knowledge. 

Under differing circumstances OR actually living these choices, like our friend Drifting, I might make a completely different call. Armchair quarterbacking and kicking the guy at the bottom of the pile are both very easy to do. In real life these are tough choices to make and life doesn't always turn out perfect for everyone all the time. Don't be afraid of being wrong and don't make your choices out of fear. Simply do the best we can --- loving and fearing the Lord the entire way. 

Other than that --- may God bless your upcoming wedding, Mr. Bohannon.


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

Hey, thanks Quality!!!! That brought a smile.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Quality said:


> However, were I {in consultation with my wife} to deem the bio-father unsuitable {very likely} then I'd have every right, even a duty, to protect my child from him.


It's the mother and not you or in this case drifting who should decide whether the bio-father is suitable or not or what's in the best interest for the children. It may very well be that the OM will not want to have anything to do with the kids in which case it's straightforward. But I agree with Bohannons that it's on balance not ethical to keep this information from the bio father in the first place.
You see all these things will later potentially come back and bite you in the ass when the kids start asking questions such as "why did you never tell my bio dad he had children?"



Quality said:


> Like the original poster - when the child is old enough and mature enough, in my estimation {in consultation with my wife and after prayerful consideration}, we'd share the story with our child and help the child fulfill his/her choices and desires based upon such knowledge.


The point at which to tell the kids that their father is not their biological father is the main thing I question on this thread. And I don't mean it as some kind of criticism to DO but this whole thing is bigger than him. Nobody seems to be looking at this situation from the kids' point of view. Detonating this kind of potentially devastating information onto the kids when they are 18 or 16 or whatever is potentially ruinous. Call me 'uninformed' or whatever you want but everything I ever read and experienced always talks about how important it is to ease this information onto the kids throughout the kids' childhood so that it doesn't hit them in one blow at some point. They will unlikely ever be 'mature enough' to ever come to terms with it but if they are used to this from a young age (5 or 6) and it's talked about in the house as a 'normal thing' (that it's ok to have a father but have a different biological father as well; which doesn't mean that their father is not their 'real' father etc) then they are less likely to be traumatised by it and develop some kind of resentment against their parents. 

Drifting: I know you said you had worked with specialists or a legal team etc and maybe they do have a different viewpoint on this in those parts of the world but I would specifically consult a child psychologist in a big city or someone who specialises in those kinds of issues to make sure you have a robust plan that prioritises the kids in this situation.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

DjDjani said:


> REDACTED


I know where you are coming from with the sentiment in this comment but you are out of line. I don't know if you had small kids in your marriage who you thought were yours but this is a very different situation from yours. And the OP made the decision to stay and raise the kids; there is absolutely no point bashing him for this. He needs to have a plan how to move forward with his family.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

DjDjani said:


> Wow! You Americans are so weak.


I don't know where u are from but the French deal with infidelity very softly and don't see much wrong w it.... So do your homework before u talk crap about US.
Anyways you are most definitely ful of toxic anger, and it's likely you are not even one quarter the man that DO is

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

CantBelieveThis said:


> DjDjani said:
> 
> 
> > Wow! You Americans are so weak.
> ...


There are so many things ****ed up about the way France deals with infidelity that it would make your head spin. 
DNA is not accepted in French law to disprove parenthood. 
If you are married and your wife is pregnant then legally the child is yours and it doesn’t matter who impregnated your wife. Unless she voluntarily refuses child support then her husband is going to be paying for another mans child for eighteen years. The child can be a different color or obviously Asian for instance and both parents caucasian and it is still illegal to use dna to disprove parenthood. 
When a large percentage of a country’s political leaders have mistresses why would they change the law? Have you ever heard of a politician wanting to spend his own money. Better to have some other poor sap pay. 
They justify this by claiming that the rights of the population at large supersede the rights of the individual. 
Yeah.........


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TheBohannons said:


> How do you know the OM said he wanted nothing to do with the children? Because your wife told you so? Really? He doesn't even know he has children.
> 
> If this is not true and he finds out and wants in HIS children's life, you will have no say in this matter.
> 
> While I will say that raising another man's child is a noble thing, keeping it from the biological father is not. You have no right to do that.


LOL!

Actually, if you didn't want to involve him at all you wouldn't have to. Children born in a marriage are immediately and almost irrevocably the husband's unless immediately and very thoroughly challenged.

The idiot OM in this instance has no legal standing and no interest anyway.

I am not DO and would have gone a different route but he is well within legal boundaries for his path through this.

He is a very thoughtful man that takes legal precautions.

Also, any idiot that sleeps with another man's wife should only expect pain, not child visitation. 

OM's don't get anything to do with the kids if the husband and wife don't want him to.

The level of destruction this particular moron would bring down on himself is considerably more than he would want to risk.


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> LOL!
> 
> Actually, if you didn't want to involve him at all you wouldn't have to. Children born in a marriage are immediately and almost irrevocably the husband's unless immediately and very thoroughly challenged.
> 
> ...


The wife did the exact same thing as the OM, but she gets to raise her her children and see them every day, yet the OM does not deserve even visitation? And in fact deserves pain? For how long? The OM gets denied being a father to his own kids, and denied employment for the rest of his life because he slept with a married woman, but the woman in question gets to raise her bio kids, has a loving and devoted husband and is forgiven. That doesn't make sense. She did the exact same thing. And it's not right that the wife and husband get to decide the OM's punishment as if they're the arbiters of right and wrong for people. They don't know him anymore. They don't see who is now and the decisions he makes. That's why above I mentioned that maybe the OM has reflected and knows that it was a mistake too, and regrets it. I highly doubt that the OM is still in the same mindset as years ago. And even if he's not, it's not up to the wife or any other human to punish him. I'm sorry but that's how I feel.

There's a really good chance the kids will see this as a betrayal if they're not told soon, and if the OM wasn't given the option to be in their lives, then they will give him the option in adulthood. They will want to know him and earn his love. They'll want to know he loves them. The kids won't care that this was part of a condition to reconciliation between DO and their mom. They're going to be focused on their own relationship with their mom, bio dad and DO.

I know this is a really delicate situation, but the kids will have a different perspective than any of the adults involved. It's just human nature.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

azimuth said:


> The wife did the exact same thing as the OM, but she gets to raise her her children and see them every day, yet the OM does not deserve even visitation? And in fact deserves pain? For how long? The OM gets denied being a father to his own kids, and denied employment for the rest of his life because he slept with a married woman, but the woman in question gets to raise her bio kids, has a loving and devoted husband and is forgiven. That doesn't make sense. She did the exact same thing. And it's not right that the wife and husband get to decide the OM's punishment as if they're the arbiters of right and wrong for people. They don't know him anymore. They don't see who is now and the decisions he makes. That's why above I mentioned that maybe the OM has reflected and knows that it was a mistake too, and regrets it. I highly doubt that the OM is still in the same mindset as years ago. And even if he's not, it's not up to the wife or any other human to punish him. I'm sorry but that's how I feel.
> 
> There's a really good chance the kids will see this as a betrayal if they're not told soon, and if the OM wasn't given the option to be in their lives, then they will give him the option in adulthood. They will want to know him and earn his love. They'll want to know he loves them. The kids won't care that this was part of a condition to reconciliation between DO and their mom. They're going to be focused on their own relationship with their mom, bio dad and DO.
> 
> I know this is a really delicate situation, but the kids will have a different perspective than any of the adults involved. It's just human nature.


Actually, very often the OM doesn't even know the WS/his AP is in fact married or involved with someone at all in which case it's not clear why the OM should get ANY blame at all. It's actually the woman who is in charge of all of the decision making behind her choice to have an affair.
I don't know if the OM did know in this case or not but I think that's probably not the issue anymore. They decided to stay, they decided to repair things and decided to raise the kids together. He decided to forgive his wife. From the thread it doesn't quite sound as though he has. I do think the two main issues here is reconsidering when/how to tell the kids and OP's unresolved feelings about the whole thing. I don't know if the latter can ever be resolved properly but it needs to be addressed and brought under control.

This kind of thing does happen a lot in nature and someone used the word 'cuckold'; it is actually the very definition of it:
"A cuckold is the husband of an adulterous wife. In evolutionary biology, the term is also applied to males who are unwittingly investing parental effort in offspring that are not genetically their own. The word cuckold derives from the cuckoo bird, alluding to its habit of laying its eggs in other birds' nests." 

It became a derogatory word over time but it needn't be. They should have gone the adoption or other routes (using her egg and donor sperm). Maybe I am wrong but perhaps the wife wanted to have kids so badly that it completely overrode her thinking and made her act irrationally so that she wanted to 'choose' the sperm donor 'manually'. Maybe if OP looks at it from this angle it might lessen the pain and provide some explanation. We are all subject to biology in the end.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

azimuth said:


> The wife did the exact same thing as the OM, but she gets to raise her her children and see them every day, yet the OM does not deserve even visitation? And in fact deserves pain? For how long? The OM gets denied being a father to his own kids, and denied employment for the rest of his life because he slept with a married woman, but the woman in question gets to raise her bio kids, has a loving and devoted husband and is forgiven. That doesn't make sense. She did the exact same thing. And it's not right that the wife and husband get to decide the OM's punishment as if they're the arbiters of right and wrong for people. They don't know him anymore. They don't see who is now and the decisions he makes. That's why above I mentioned that maybe the OM has reflected and knows that it was a mistake too, and regrets it. I highly doubt that the OM is still in the same mindset as years ago. And even if he's not, it's not up to the wife or any other human to punish him. I'm sorry but that's how I feel.
> 
> There's a really good chance the kids will see this as a betrayal if they're not told soon, and if the OM wasn't given the option to be in their lives, then they will give him the option in adulthood. They will want to know him and earn his love. They'll want to know he loves them. The kids won't care that this was part of a condition to reconciliation between DO and their mom. They're going to be focused on their own relationship with their mom, bio dad and DO.
> 
> I know this is a really delicate situation, but the kids will have a different perspective than any of the adults involved. It's just human nature.


You are a universe 🌌 away from me in thinking and quite a bit different than drifting as well.

If a scumbag knocked up your wife, you can definitely deal with it anyway you want but I would make his life a blasted wasteland for being arrogant enough to trespass in my territory. I would not keep my wife but that is just me.

If you feel sympathy for your wife's defiler and impregnator, that is absolutely your business.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> You are a universe 🌌 away from me in thinking and quite a bit different than drifting as well.
> 
> If a scumbag knocked up your wife, you can definitely deal with it anyway you want but I would make his life a blasted wasteland for being arrogant enough to trespass in my territory. I would not keep my wife but that is just me.
> 
> If you feel sympathy for your wife's defiler and impregnator, that is absolutely your business.


You mentioned before that you slept with (I think?) 80 women or so (maybe I got the number slightly wrong but perhaps you can correct me). Were any of them not in a relationship/married? How much 'effort' did you put into finding out whether they were single or not before banging them? 
Lets not get carried away


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> You mentioned before that you slept with (I think?) 80 women or so (maybe I got the number slightly wrong but perhaps you can correct me). Were any of them not in a relationship/married? How much 'effort' did you put into finding out whether they were single or not before banging them?
> Lets not get carried away


There were two that slipped by my radar.

One had a boyfriend that was standing over us, the morning after a house party, as we woke up in bed together.

The other was a coworker who took me to her home and had me in her mouth when, do to a number of factors, I deduced she was married. I asked her to take a shower and left.


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> You are a universe 🌌 away from me in thinking and quite a bit different than drifting as well.
> 
> If a scumbag knocked up your wife, you can definitely deal with it anyway you want but I would make his life a blasted wasteland for being arrogant enough to trespass in my territory. I would not keep my wife but that is just me.
> 
> If you feel sympathy for your wife's defiler and impregnator, that is absolutely your business.



I'm a woman and a mother. My husband cheated on me and left me. So I see things from that perspective. Your attitude suggests you think women are for the picking by men and have no agency. That men need to guard their territory from roving evil males impregnating their woman. I don't see things that way at all. Women makes choices equally as men. In my marriage there were many opportunities for me to cheat but I never took them because I honor the vows I take, plus I was in love with my husband. My husband however did not honor his vows. Believe me I know the pain of being cheated on. I don't have "sympathy" per se for the OM. My sympathy is for the children. If you read my earlier posts my mom and husband were in similar situations as kids and adults. As a result I've talked about paternity, adoption, relinquishing rights, visitation, etc etc throughout my life extensively, and that's why I felt compelled to post in this thread. This is the only thread that kept me up at night, it hits very close to home. I don't know if I have anything to add anymore. The wife should have told everyone day one. Then the OM would have terminated his rights, DO could have legally adopted and they could move forward as a family without lying and pretending. IMO. Bowing out now.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Quality said:


> Wasn't really trying to take the argument here.
> 
> DNA tests are widely available now {to fathers OR even grandma's} and, in some {not sure} states, it is my understanding, a 'father' has up to 2 years to challenge paternity and relieve himself of "HAVING to support a kid who is not his", after that, he's legally obligated. He can walk out all he wants, but unless the mom let's him go, he'll be on the hook for support and just adding to the perception of "deadbeat fathers" in family courts.
> 
> Sure --- test away, good suggestion - until then caveat emptor.


so what is supposed to happen for the guy who is duped and finds out his kid isn't his when said kid is 3? You are markedly missing the point on how tragic paternity fraud is. It is NOT just the money bit. That is really the only recourse to 'get back' at being totally deceived.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

naiveonedave said:


> so what is supposed to happen for the guy who is duped and finds out his kid isn't his when said kid is 3? You are markedly missing the point on how tragic paternity fraud is. It is NOT just the money bit. That is really the only recourse to 'get back' at being totally deceived.


When I'm POTUS (could happen!), my first executive order will be automatic paternity tests. I'll pay for it by suspending foreign aid to any country that has a bigger border wall than the USA.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> You are a universe 🌌 away from me in thinking and quite a bit different than drifting as well.
> 
> If a scumbag knocked up your wife, you can definitely deal with it anyway you want but I would make his life a blasted wasteland for being arrogant enough to trespass in my territory. I would not keep my wife but that is just me.
> 
> If you feel sympathy for your wife's defiler and impregnator, that is absolutely your business.


We finally agree 100% about something.

This probably isn't the forum for anyone wishing to carry water for OM sperm donors. 

If a 'man' wants to ensure himself legal {or even moral} rights to his progeny, find himself his own wife OR, at least, wear a condom when with someone else's wife lest the sperm you leave behind, and any resulting child, might just become the property of another man by adverse possession.

In the real world this isn't a real issue or problem. There is no line at the courthouse of OM's fighting for legal rights to their bio-kids. The only time they pipe up is as a way to manipulate themselves back into the life of the waywward wife who, inevitably, dumped them.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

naiveonedave said:


> so what is supposed to happen for the guy who is duped and finds out his kid isn't his when said kid is 3? You are markedly missing the point on how tragic paternity fraud is. It is NOT just the money bit. That is really the only recourse to 'get back' at being totally deceived.


Take it up with your local politician or, better yet, run for state congress, get elected and proceed with trying to change the laws in your state. 

However, my point was, considering the availability and ease of undertaking a DNA for anyone {father, mother, grandma}, being "totally deceived" after the 2 year window of opportunity is kind of on you. 

AncestryDNA = $99.

Seems easier to just educate every man you know to undertake an ancestry dna test of some kind on themselves and their babies, even if it's just for seemingly "entertainment purposes".

btw - sometimes moms don't tell because they don't know themselves having slept with several men during the suspect time period. They continue with their husband in blind and|or hopeful ignorance of such "fraud". The availability of dna testing helps this situation too as mom can confirm one way or another secretly whether she truly has to have a conversation with her husband about the paternity of the child or not.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

Quality said:


> btw - sometimes moms don't tell because they don't know themselves having slept with several men during the suspect time period. They continue with their husband in blind and|or hopeful ignorance of such "fraud". The availability of dna testing helps this situation too as mom can confirm one way or another secretly whether she truly has to have a conversation with her husband about the paternity of the child or not.


Doesn't matter. It's still their fault. It doesn't matter if they don't know for sure because they know they slept with more than one man without protection and that unprotected copulation potentially leads to pregnancy.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

azimuth said:


> I'm a woman and a mother. My husband cheated on me and left me. So I see things from that perspective. Your attitude suggests you think women are for the picking by men and have no agency. That men need to guard their territory from roving evil males impregnating their woman. I don't see things that way at all. Women makes choices equally as men. In my marriage there were many opportunities for me to cheat but I never took them because I honor the vows I take, plus I was in love with my husband. My husband however did not honor his vows. Believe me I know the pain of being cheated on. I don't have "sympathy" per se for the OM. My sympathy is for the children. If you read my earlier posts my mom and husband were in similar situations as kids and adults. As a result I've talked about paternity, adoption, relinquishing rights, visitation, etc etc throughout my life extensively, and that's why I felt compelled to post in this thread. This is the only thread that kept me up at night, it hits very close to home. I don't know if I have anything to add anymore. The wife should have told everyone day one. Then the OM would have terminated his rights, DO could have legally adopted and they could move forward as a family without lying and pretending. IMO. Bowing out now.


DO is totally and legally their father. The OM is legally out of the picture. I would probably follow a similar path if I was in DO's shoes and staying with my wife.

Sorry to hear about your marriage BTW.

My wife and marriage is my territory. DO's wife had repercussions and they are reconciling.

Any man stupid enough to bed another man's wife is lucky to still be breathing. He has no claim to children that might result.

I have zero sympathy for OM's. The wife is guilty as hell here but she is married to DO and their marriage and family is between them and no one else.

Don't plant crops in another man's field and expect a harvest.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

BruceBanner said:


> Who told you I was a man?


Check out your user name. That might explain it.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Don't plant crops in another man's field and expect a harvest.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Don't plant crops in another man's field and expect a harvest.


Never thought of wife's vagina as 'my own personal field' but thanks for the analogy!
I will get back to ploughing..


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> DO is totally and legally their father. The OM is legally out of the picture. I would probably follow a similar path if I was in DO's shoes and staying with my wife.
> 
> Sorry to hear about your marriage BTW.
> 
> ...


That'll preach.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> Check out your user name. That might explain it.


Haha. Bruce Banner is the name of a fictional superhero appearing in American comic books. Also it's not like males don't use female usernames on the internet all the time so the opposite could also be true in this situation.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> Never thought of wife's vagina as 'my own personal field' but thanks for the analogy!


It's a foundational basis of marriage - 

"For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh." Ephesians 5:31 KJV

"Culture" or satan's attack on marriage has you re-framing Conan's statement as a seeming archaic ownership statement from when men had complete authority over women and they were considered chattel by many PRE-Christian (and some post-Christian) civilizations. 

It's ironic that the equality of women and women's rights came forth within western Christian societies yet the Christian values upon which the foundation of such rights were founded now get dismissed or reframed as misogynistic. 

Marriage trumps OM every time. It may not be the perfect rule every time and in every situation but, culturally and societally, it should remain a hard and fast rule in the best interests of the children in these situations. Consider this story. If OM was permitted, by law, to interject himself into the lives of Drifting and his wife, their marriage would never make it. "No Contact for Life" is the first rule of marital recovery after infidelity and, absent that, there is little hope for the marriage and these innocent children grow up in a broken home and incur even more consequences on top of having to share DNA with OM.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Quality said:


> Take it up with your local politician or, better yet, run for state congress, get elected and proceed with trying to change the laws in your state.
> 
> However, my point was, considering the availability and ease of undertaking a DNA for anyone {father, mother, grandma}, being "totally deceived" after the 2 year window of opportunity is kind of on you.
> 
> ...


The problem here is this is plain old fraud and there should not be a statute of limitations. Sure, reform the government. Read the NY times story in the other active thread here. Disgusting what guys have to go through when they are wronged so badly in this way.

The other thing is the only folks talking about this are the few who found out AND want to do something about it. Many who found out are essentially counseled to not bother, as they will get raped by the Divorce court.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

BruceBanner said:


> Haha. Bruce Banner is the name of a fictional superhero appearing in American comic books. Also it's not like males don't use female usernames on the internet all the time so the opposite could also be true in this situation.


 You don't have to explain that to me. I am well aware. You asked a stupid question....


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> You don't have to explain that to me. I am well aware. You asked a stupid question....


It was rhetorical.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Quality said:


> It's a foundational basis of marriage -
> 
> "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh." Ephesians 5:31 KJV
> 
> ...


Maybe because there is a reason for this?

Colossians 3:18:
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 11:3-10:
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Ephesians 5:22-24:
Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 

1 Timothy 2:12:
I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man; she must be quiet.

It doesn't sound terribly gender equal to me. The renaissance of gender equality had nothing to do with religion.



Quality said:


> Marriage trumps OM every time. It may not be the perfect rule every time and in every situation but, culturally and societally, it should remain a hard and fast rule in the best interests of the children in these situations. Consider this story. If OM was permitted, by law, to interject himself into the lives of Drifting and his wife, their marriage would never make it. "No Contact for Life" is the first rule of marital recovery after infidelity and, absent that, there is little hope for the marriage and these innocent children grow up in a broken home and incur even more consequences on top of having to share DNA with OM.


There are many things wrong with this. First of all, if you are the biological father and your name is not listed on the birth certificate, it is my understanding that you can still establish paternity, even if the mother refuses to sign the affidavit of paternity. So your premise does not seem to be correct.

https://www.livestrong.com/article/140913-what-rights-do-fathers-have-if-they-are-not-birth-record/

Secondly, it's complete speculation on your part whether a marriage will make it or not "due to this law" that does not exist. Nor what is in the best interest for the children. If reconciliation is not successful and the parents resent each other, there is no chance that it is better for the kids to remain in this environment, just for the sake of staying married.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

BruceBanner said:


> It was rhetorical.


Sure it was... >


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

sokillme said:


> That post was awful. I am glad it was deleted, but I have to stick up for DO. What he has chosen to do was make the best of a very bad situation. When he found out he was already 2 years in love with kids as he was led to believe they were his. He decided to sacrifice the pain that that causes and love those kids like his own. The only bad person in this story is his wife. She has repented and he decided to make the best of that as well.
> 
> I personally have great respect for how handled being their father. His choice with his wife would not be my choice but it's his life and one that takes a whole lot of strength. In all his posts I do not see him as a pushover, he is a very good man. Where would his kids be if he abandoned them. That would just compound a problem. His kids were Innocent. Once you have children a true man makes decisions with their needs in mind first. That is what DO has done. For that an a whole host of other reasons he is their father.
> 
> Look few things make me more mad then paternity fraud but I choose to judge the guilty not the innocent. Lay off the dude, he is a good man.


And the children are innocent also!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> And the children are innocent also!





> That post was awful. I am glad it was deleted, but I have to stick up for DO. What he has chosen to do was make the best of a very bad situation. When he found out he was already 2 years in love with kids as he was led to believe they were his. He decided to sacrifice the pain that that causes and love those kids like his own. The only bad person in this story is his wife. She has repented and he decided to make the best of that as well.
> 
> I personally have great respect for how handled being their father. His choice with his wife would not be my choice but it's his life and one that takes a whole lot of strength. In all his posts I do not see him as a pushover, he is a very good man. Where would his kids be if he abandoned them. That would just compound a problem. *His kids were Innocent.* Once you have children a true man makes decisions with their needs in mind first. That is what DO has done. For that an a whole host of other reasons he is their father.
> 
> Look few things make me more mad then paternity fraud but I choose to judge the guilty not the innocent. Lay off the dude, he is a good man.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> Maybe because there is a reason for this?
> 
> Colossians 3:18:
> Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
> ...


This is just proof-texting. Men are to submit their wives too and love her as Christ loved the church. Christ loved the church enough to give up His life for it {us}, and it's really easy for a woman to biblically submit {as is fit in the Lord} to her husband when he is willing to die for her. Further, it is not demeaning to women to affirm their equal value but differing roles the Bible clearly teaches. What is demeaning is to ascribe to them positions of spiritual leadership in the home or church (and the accompanying responsibilities of the same) the Bible reserves for men.

The first rule of interpreting scripture is context. The second rule of interpreting scripture is context. The third rule....context. I'm not being pompous when I say this because my true wish would be for you to fully understand what you are arguing about, but it is very difficult to discuss Christianity and scripture with a non-Christian. The Holy Spirit helps us understand the bible. This may explain what I mean:  "How the Holy Spirit helps you read the word of God"


Another verse, which in full context, supports my opinion about marriage:

For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 1 Corinthians 7:4 ESV



> There are many things wrong with this. First of all, if you are the biological father and your name is not listed on the birth certificate, it is my understanding that you can still establish paternity, even if the mother refuses to sign the affidavit of paternity. So your premise does not seem to be correct.
> 
> https://www.livestrong.com/article/140913-what-rights-do-fathers-have-if-they-are-not-birth-record/


Livestrong??? funny authority to utilize for US law.

Depends on the state. I'm sure some or even many states have gone to a more secular European model of mistakenly handing "father's rights" to single men over marital paternity rights. Fortunately, in practice, even in those states it's still an uphill battle for them, as it should be. 



> Secondly, it's complete speculation on your part whether a marriage will make it or not "due to this law" that does not exist. Nor what is in the best interest for the children. If reconciliation is not successful and the parents resent each other, there is no chance that it is better for the kids to remain in this environment, just for the sake of staying married.


Not speculation. I've seen it. When you involuntarily {or even volunatarily} add a bio dad on top of a legal father {who was betrayed by his wife with bio-dad} and a mom {former wayward wife with bio-dad} you have a recipe for divorce 999 out of 1000 times. Anecdotal stories aside, children {including any other children of the marriage} do better within intact homes with both a mother and father. Giving the marriage it's best shot by keeping interloping men out of it is a benefit to more persons in an overwhelming majority of these situations.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Quality, I understand exactly what you are saying. And you make sense. Let's just be honest… none of these people championing the cause of the OM knowing his child or the child knowing their true origin has anything to do with care about children or biological dads or anything else. All of this is about making sure no man has to interact with any child that doesn't share his DNA and making sure the wayward wife gets punished as much as possible. Let's just be honest. I mean, any man who could walk away from his ten year old based on a DNA is to selfish to care about anyone else.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> Let's just be honest. I mean, any man who could walk away from his ten year old based on a DNA is to selfish to care about anyone else.


I think I'll call BULL**** on that one.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> I mean, any man who could walk away from his ten year old based on a DNA is to selfish to care about anyone else.


That is 100% his right and no man would be wrong to make it. There's no reason why the woman should be able to be selfish, have her cake, and eat it too.


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> Quality, I understand exactly what you are saying. And you make sense. Let's just be honest… none of these people championing the cause of the OM knowing his child or the child knowing their true origin has anything to do with care about children or biological dads or anything else.* All of this is about making sure no man has to interact with any child that doesn't share his DNA* and making sure the wayward wife gets punished as much as possible. Let's just be honest. I mean, any man who could walk away from his ten year old based on a DNA is to selfish to care about anyone else.


Nope, you are wrong. I don't know how in the world you got that from my posts. I "championed" the OM knowing he is a father and allowing him to terminate his parental rights because in my experience that DOES make a difference for the kids when they grow up. It hurts really bad but it's a form of closure. If he never did, if he was never even informed that he was a father, then the kids will grow up and try to earn his love and give him a fair chance. It's what happened in TWO separate incidents of my family members.

I never advocated that DO abandon the kids. That is ridiculous.

Also, you may not agree but there's nothing wrong with wanting to know one's own origin. It's absolutely ok to feel lied to and betrayed by a parent who kept that information from you, to serve their purposes. Shaming children into thinking they shouldn't find out, or make them think they're the ones betraying the parents causes massive damage.


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

It is easy to cast stones, when you could never be on the other side. 

It is memorial day weekend. RIP JFL. SPF USA

Time to go.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

BruceBanner said:


> That is 100% his right and no man would be wrong to make it. There's no reason why the woman should be able to be selfish, have her cake, and eat it too.



When a man's need to stick it to the woman (albeit a crappy woman) makes him punish a child, he is no man.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

MyRevelation said:


> I think I'll call BULL**** on that one.


So you would walk away from a son or daughter you had raised for a decade? This surprises me.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

TheBohannons said:


> It is easy to cast stones, when you could never be on the other side.
> 
> It is memorial day weekend. RIP JFL. SPF USA
> 
> Time to go.


When you've been the child....it's even easier.


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> When you've been the child....it's even easier.


Your adoption and active deceit/paternity fraud are not the same thing. It is offensive to insinuate such a thing.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

TheBohannons said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > When you've been the child....it's even easier.
> ...


I never said they were. Calm down, hon.

Just saying that from a CHILD's point of view, the "why" might not mitigate the hurt and rejection.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

I still don't understand how OP can stay with a woman who would've kept "their" children's paternity a secret through out the rest of the marriage and possibly after his death if she could've gotten away with it. She had no problem whatsoever with playing you for a fool. He only figured out due to him taking the initiative. She had two/three years to tell you that the kids weren't yours. She was never going to tell you. I've been reading through some of the posts of the OP's past thread(s) and I haven't seen a single person bring this up yet. Most people just glorifying a man becoming a martyr by staking himself to a cross and lighting it himself. 
@drifting on


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

BruceBanner said:


> I still don't understand how OP can stay with a woman who would've kept "their" children's paternity a secret through out the rest of the marriage and possibly after his death if she could've gotten away with it. She had no problem whatsoever with playing you for a fool. He only figured out due to him taking the initiative. She had two/three years to tell you that the kids weren't yours. She was never going to tell you. I've been reading through some of the posts of the OP's past thread(s) and I haven't seen a single person bring this up yet. Most people just glorifying a man becoming a martyr by staking himself to a cross and lighting it himself.
> @drifting on





Bruce

I have been challenged many times on TAM, I have no issue with being challenged, many of those who’ve challenged me are posting on this thread now. My wife taking this secret to her grave is not what she would be capable of. I know this by watching her now, her actions, her drive to repent and be forgiven by The Lord. This may not mean much to anyone, even though her actions were evil and cruel, it truly is not who she is. Capable? Yes. For a lifetime? No. My wife has done so many things to change and grow, she has surpassed the woman I married. I believe people can change, in drastic and huge ways, I’ve also seen that change here from posters who made devastating decisions. 

A martyr? No. I’m actually a very simple man, one who is nice until it’s time not to be nice. I have people test me all the time, until I deal with them, and then they won’t test me again. I make sure they remember that they test me, so our next meeting is generally just talking. Am I stakes by myself to a cross and setting it ablaze, no more then I would extinguish a fire by pouring gas on it. I am not searching for glory, I am not here for posters to tell me how honorable my actions may be. No, I’m a man that is trying to reconcile a vile act, with a wife who has completely changed herself. The fact that this keeps our family together is an added plus. I have met with a poster who challenged me daily, wrote some very angry posts, but always continued to help me. That poster is @ConanHub, he can tell you what he thought of me when we met, maybe that will satisfy you that I’m not a martyr. 

I wasn’t going to respond to you in any fashion, you have written some disparaging comments that I don’t agree with. How you have written was purely to insult either me or my wife, I ask how that is helpful? You say I am a cuckold, a term I will tell you I don’t appreciate. My wife having an affair does not make me a cuckold, it makes me a betrayed husband. I wasn’t consented by my wife to approve or deny her affair, so calling me a cuckold is purely an insult. I understand the definition of the word, disagree with it whole heartedly. The fact is, if I respond harshly another moderator warning will appear in this thread, I find that disheartening. As much as you insult me with the word cuckold I should be allowed to respond about how I feel about your intelligence, or lack thereof. Know this, the boys are innocent, regardless of conception. OM is not wanting to be a part of their lives, that is his choice he made when he spoke to my wife that they may be his. This was just after the affair ended, when she tried to talk to OM again a week later he said he wants no part of them. Most anyone can be a donor, not much required for that, but to be a father, you need to have more inside you. 

I hope you feel I have answered your question, if not, well I don’t know what to tell you. I’m not here to prove anything to you, martyr or not a martyr, I’m here for me and others of TAM who may need help or encouragement. My situation was despicable, but I survived with the help of many people here, I have shown that after such a devastating blow you can become healthy again.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

drifting on said:


> My wife taking this secret to her grave is not what she would be capable of. I know this by watching her now, her actions, her drive to repent and be forgiven by The Lord. This may not mean much to anyone, even though her actions were evil and cruel, it truly is not who she is. Capable? Yes. For a lifetime? No. My wife has done so many things to change and grow, she has surpassed the woman I married. I believe people can change, in drastic and huge ways, I’ve also seen that change here from posters who made devastating decisions.


You don't know that for sure. People wear masks all the time. Nobody knows what she truly feels and thinks but her. I bet you never thought your wife would cheat on you and fool you into thinking those twins were yours when they're not, but she did fool you. Anyways, the OM should be paying child support whether he wants to be apart of their lives or not. That should be his punishment. He shouldn't get to fool around with a married person, get her pregnant, and then get off scot-free.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

BruceBanner said:


> You don't know that for sure. People wear masks all the time. Nobody knows what she truly feels and thinks but her. I bet you never thought your wife would cheat on you and fool you into thinking those twins were yours when they're not, but she did fool you. Anyways, the OM should be paying child support whether he wants to be apart of their lives or not. That should be his punishment. He shouldn't get to fool around with a married person, get her pregnant, and then get off scot-free.





This post is about who she was, not who she is currently, that’s how people change and grow in turn becoming healthier. It is true she could change back to who she was during the affair tomorrow, but I have also grown. On the slim chance she were to do this again I wouldn’t have blinders on, I would respond harshly and swiftly, this marriage would be dead. Knowing I’m ok with or without her will make this very easy for me, I’ve already done my crying and have no more tears to shed. I have taken small pokes at OM, but OM isn’t worth one ounce of legal trouble. He will suffer at the hands of God, the chair of atonement, which I find solace in.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> What was the profound effect and Why did it have a profound effect on your wife? Was she expecting a different response?





My wife and OM discussed the pregnancy at length after the affair ended. OM was very firm in his decision that he wants nothing to do with the child(s) that were a result. What this showed to my wife is how shallow and fake OM is. He wasn’t anything that he had shown to her. It was a brutal hit to her, one that showed she meant absolutely nothing to her. Beyond that it proved to her that not only did she mean nothing, a child didn’t as well. 

It wasn’t so much she was expecting a different response, it was the fact OM saw her as meat and not for her. I guess that’s what happens when the fantasyland ride comes to an end.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

BruceBanner said:


> So is OP. There is no shame in a man deciding to bail when he figures out the kids aren't his. I don't give a **** what the law says, which by the way promotes cuckoldry in many places.





When I met these two boys, held them, fed them, changed their diapers, payed with them during naps, showed them their very first tree and leaf, all of these are bonding times. It was very much me experiencing this for the first time also. Since that time we have done so much, learned to ride bycycles, gone fishing together, caught their first fish, been to Disney, and so much more. I’ve taught them how to swim, sprayed them with the garden hose as we wash the car, they’ve sprayed me as well. I’ve taken them to ice cream shoppes, museums, sporting events, monster jam, all of this is very bonding. We are a close knit family, walking out of their lives is not possible for me. Having split custody is for the most part acceptable, if my wife fails. My desire for kids wasn’t just to say I had kids, it meant to me that I be involved heavily in their lives. That means I spend as much time as possible with them, interact, teach, learn, smile and laugh, so they are going to be quality men as adults. But for now, I want them to enjoy childhood, become great students in school, and to feel safe and secure. That is what I always imagined being a father was about, not just a male in the house and to carry a name on.


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

drifting on said:


> *My wife and OM discussed the pregnancy at length after the affair ended. OM was very firm in his decision that he wants nothing to do with the child(s) that were a result. *


from page 7 on this thread:


> Does the OM know he is the biological father to your twins.





> Officially no, unofficially, yes. *My wife told OM it was a possibility the twins were his. He has not been told if he is or not. *Per my attorney he does not want to notify OM yet. I can’t say why but I can say it’s to protect the boys.



These two statements don't really match. You said you knew the children weren't yours because you two weren't having sex at that time. So she knew the children were OM's, it was not a "possibility." If they discussed the pregnancy at length she would have had to tell him that they were his since she wasn't having sex with you at the time. It just looks like they didn't really discuss it as extensively as you think?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

drifting on said:


> My desire for kids wasn’t just to say I had kids, it meant to me that I be involved heavily in their lives. That means I spend as much time as possible with them, interact, teach, learn, smile and laugh, so they are going to be quality men as adults. But for now, I want them to enjoy childhood, become great students in school, and to feel safe and secure. That is what I always imagined being a father was about, not just a male in the house and to carry a name on.


1) Will you ever tell them about their biological father?
2) How would you feel about them meeting him, and making him a part of their lives?
3) How would you feel if the other man decided right now to assert his legal rights as the biological father?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

TRy said:


> 1) Will you ever tell them about their biological father?
> 2) How would you feel about them meeting him, and making him a part of their lives?
> 3) How would you feel if the other man decided right now to assert his legal rights as the biological father?


I realize this is a longish thread, but he has answered all these questions.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

drifting on said:


> My wife and OM discussed the pregnancy at length after the affair ended. OM was very firm in his decision that he wants nothing to do with the child(s) that were a result. What this showed to my wife is how shallow and fake OM is. He wasn’t anything that he had shown to her. It was a brutal hit to her, one that showed she meant absolutely nothing to her. Beyond that it proved to her that not only did she mean nothing, a child didn’t as well.
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn’t so much she was expecting a different response, it was the fact OM saw her as meat and not for her. I guess that’s what happens when the fantasyland ride comes to an end.



I don’t mean it in an unkind way (and this is just an alternative perspective; it may not be the best angle to look at), but do you think you would be raising those boys if the OM embraced the idea of raising those kids with your wife? I mean the reason your wife ended the affair with OM and came back to you is perhaps because she sensed that the OM wouldn’t be interested in raising the kids with her (and not necessarily because she loves you). She may have chosen what she considered the safer path for her kids, choosing you as the provider, instead of the OM. The reason I mention it at all is that you should never let your guard down with her.

On the other hand however: it’s perhaps perverse to look at it this way but if it wasn’t for the OM, you guys would not really have had a chance to have this family unit and you would never have experienced those things with your kids. Ok, she should have gone through IVF or the sperm donor route instead of deceiving you but if the affair didn’t happen, you wouldn’t have those two wonderful kids. There is always a silver lining for some clouds.

The only thing I would really reconsider is waiting when to tell the kids. I understand your priority is to protect them and your family but I really believe it is better for them to be accustomed to the idea that you are not their bio dad early on so that it doesn’t come as a shock to them later. By withholding the truth from them, you are risking potentially losing them or their respect later on. It will hit them hard and they may react in ways you cannot predict and completely contrary to how you might be imagining it now.
Watch this video: https://youtu.be/3fS8nPo21Dg
It’s an annoying video but illustrates the point what happens to an adult when they are suddenly confronted with such news.

A lot of kids don’t have a bio parent or two and they turn out perfectly happy. You are doing a noble thing, raising them and being a great dad to them, they would otherwise not have. Please don’t make the same mistake many parents made before you and hide the truth from them.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

azimuth said:


> from page 7 on this thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Actually my statements do match, after d-day I was able to piece together much of how everything happened. I was able to figure out many things after d-day, and when I write now it reflects that. However, if I wrote from a position of how things occurred it would look much different. From the talks my wife and OM had, OM does most likely know he is the biological parent. I hope you can understand what I’ve written here, but to explain it clearly would reveal much of what my attorney states to not say.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

TRy said:


> 1) Will you ever tell them about their biological father?
> 2) How would you feel about them meeting him, and making him a part of their lives?
> 3) How would you feel if the other man decided right now to assert his legal rights as the biological father?





1) yes, at an age appropriate age. This will be in a therapeutic setting with my therapist. 

2) this is the choice of the boys, my feelings are not relevant in what they need to do. Even though they will know before this age (18), if they desire to meet OM I will help them find him. I will not introduce them, but if the boys need this I won’t stop them. 

3) OM could try to invoke his legal rights at any time, my attorney has a plan for this. As for how I would feel? I’m sure the affair would come flooding back in a huge way. I would need to carefully navigate these waters and maintain a healthy and strong balance. My therapist has worked with me in the event it does happen. With that said, I can say I will destroy OM legally and financially. I will leave him with absolutely nothing, not even a good memory in life.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Have a great Memorial day!


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

double post


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

drifting on said:


> 3) OM could try to invoke his legal rights at any time, my attorney has a plan for this. As for how I would feel? I’m sure the affair would come flooding back in a huge way. I would need to carefully navigate these waters and maintain a healthy and strong balance. My therapist has worked with me in the event it does happen. With that said, I can say I will destroy OM legally and financially. I will leave him with absolutely nothing, not even a good memory in life.


I think that would be an appropriate response. When you are being attacked, you have to stop the attack. Going scorched earth makes sure he doesn't come back at you again.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Have a great Memorial day!





You too brother!!! Off to play with the boys!!!


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> MyRevelation said:
> 
> 
> > I think I'll call BULL**** on that one.
> ...


Why, I actually believe it would be the response of most men. Life is too short to spend it paying for the betrayal of others.

One thing I’ve learned ... love is not unconditional.

You are free to judge my manliness however you want, but I’ll be damned if I’d knowingly raise the child of another man conceived thru adultery with my W. I’m normally a pretty “gray” thinker, but this is black and white for me.


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

drifting on said:


> Actually my statements do match, after d-day I was able to piece together much of how everything happened. I was able to figure out many things after d-day, and when I write now it reflects that. However, if I wrote from a position of how things occurred it would look much different. From the talks my wife and OM had, OM does most likely know he is the biological parent. I hope you can understand what I’ve written here, but to explain it clearly would reveal much of what my attorney states to not say.


I get how you know and found out. I’m saying you have no idea what your wife told OM, if she even talked to him at all. She lied about the biggest things for years. I wouldn’t really trust what she said she told OM and what he allegedly said to her. She has the capacity to be a “good liar” and she could have told you a story about how much of a deadbeat he was to earn sympathy. It’s not a stretch.

I think this is one of the reasons you’re trying to destroy him now, so he won’t be able to have visitation or provide financially if he ever chose to. It helps you rest easy that if he does want to be in his children’s lives, he won’t physically be able to. Because since your wife changed so much and became a better person, he could too. And he might not even know he’s a father at all. God may have put those children in his path to help him grow and be better.

In any case it seems like you are very set on this path of destroying the OM and not telling the boys until they’re 18. Your boys may have very different opinions about all of this than you imagine, no matter if the OM is a deadbeat or not. They will understand that people can change over time, even if you don’t think so. Best wishes to you all, I will for real bow out of this thread. It’s super triggering and my maternal instincts kick in. I can’t think about this situation any more. Good luck


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

drifting on said:


> 1) y
> 3) OM could try to invoke his legal rights at any time, my attorney has a plan for this.
> 
> With that said, I can say I will destroy OM legally and financially. I will leave him with absolutely nothing, not even a good memory in life.


Why does the OM deserve destruction and your wife deserve forgiveness?

You do not really know the truth do you.

Your lawyers plan will mean nothing if your wife is lying. A competent lawyer would have reached out to the bio dad, and received a waiver.. You think you could destroy the OM, but he can destroy you also.

Your plan is to wait and pray. A better plan would be to find the truth and get the parental waiver.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

azimuth said:


> I get how you know and found out. I’m saying you have no idea what your wife told OM, if she even talked to him at all. She lied about the biggest things for years. I wouldn’t really trust what she said she told OM and what he allegedly said to her. She has the capacity to be a “good liar” and she could have told you a story about how much of a deadbeat he was to earn sympathy. It’s not a stretch.
> 
> I think this is one of the reasons you’re trying to destroy him now, so he won’t be able to have visitation or provide financially if he ever chose to. It helps you rest easy that if he does want to be in his children’s lives, he won’t physically be able to. Because since your wife changed so much and became a better person, he could too. And he might not even know he’s a father at all. God may have put those children in his path to help him grow and be better.
> 
> In any case it seems like you are very set on this path of destroying the OM and not telling the boys until they’re 18. Your boys may have very different opinions about all of this than you imagine, no matter if the OM is a deadbeat or not. They will understand that people can change over time, even if you don’t think so. Best wishes to you all, I will for real bow out of this thread. It’s super triggering and my maternal instincts kick in. I can’t think about this situation any more. Good luck




I understand this can be triggering you very much, and that you may not agree with my decisions and actions, my two largest priorities are myself and the boys. They will be told before the age of eighteen, I’ve ssid that, but both myself and therapist believe it to be in the best interest that they meet OM after the age of eighteen. I cannot stop this, yet I will listen to them if they decide they want to meet OM before the age of eighteen. Personally I feel I’m being very open to hear the boys for their needs. 

As for OM, I also work where my wife does, I’ve met OM, and I’ve met him twice after the affair was found out. When I met with him I spoke about the unprotected sex, what it could lead to. As he tried to tell me basically what he told my wife I cut him off and continued speaking. I should have listened, because I would then have full confirmation of what my wife said, but my anger was too much. I can say that about one week after d-day my wife has only told the truth. I have discovered no lies and I’m about 99% sure of that, I verify much of what she has said. 

I hope you find peace and happiness in life.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

TheBohannons said:


> Why does the OM deserve destruction and your wife deserve forgiveness?
> 
> You do not really know the truth do you.
> 
> ...




Why does OM deserve destruction? Really? How about he had sex with my wife? Not reason enough? How about because my transgressions have been minimal to him compared to what he did? Still not reason enough? Because he was stupid enough to have sex with a married woman who is married to someone who finds that reason for OM to no longer breathe. I have forgiven my wife because of the hard work and repentance she is trying to achieve. She has suffered my consequences and her own. Justice will never ever be repaid to me by them, it will be to God. I can never forgive OM, not in me to do so, but I haven’t really gone out of my way to seek the justice I want to bring him too, he is still breathing. 

As for what happened, I know about as much as I will ever know, the full truth, find one thread here where the betrayed did find the entire truth. It’s impossible. 

As for my lawyer, I trust in his plan, OM was told he may be the father, never once ever reached out to my wife to know. This includes the almost three years they worked together after the affair ended. If someone told me I may be the father of a child I would find out, I wouldn’t wait to be on the line for years of child support. No, I would prove my innocence as many would. I couldn’t imagine having that uncertainty hanging over my head, could you?

Destroy me? With exception to a few phone calls or letters containing truth, what could he destroy me for? Even the letters and calls are truth and not slander, hell, I could put his name on a billboard that he is a cheat without any legal repercussions. As long as I state the truth I am protected. Now if I put he is slime and a bad father I could be sued, I don’t know if he is a bad father. Legally OM can’t touch me, let alone destroy me, but I welcome his fight.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> The only thing I would really reconsider is waiting when to tell the kids. I understand your priority is to protect them and your family but I really believe it is better for them to be accustomed to the idea that you are not their bio dad early on so that it doesn’t come as a shock to them later. By withholding the truth from them, you are risking potentially losing them or their respect later on. It will hit them hard and they may react in ways you cannot predict and completely contrary to how you might be imagining it now.
> Watch this video: https://youtu.be/3fS8nPo21Dg
> It’s an annoying video but illustrates the point what happens to an adult when they are suddenly confronted with such news.
> 
> ...


I think this might be a little difficult for a child to wrap their heads around at so early an age. I tried to explain to my 9 year old about dogs going into heat and found myself verging on the precipice of too graphic detail and confusing her (and me) even more with the scientific explanation of hormones. So, it may just be something you have to wait until they are mentally able to process the information.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

MyRevelation said:


> Why, I actually believe it would be the response of most men. Life is too short to spend it paying for the betrayal of others.
> 
> One thing I’ve learned ... love is not unconditional.
> 
> You are free to judge my manliness however you want, but I’ll be damned if I’d knowingly raise the child of another man conceived thru adultery with my W. I’m normally a pretty “gray” thinker, but this is black and white for me.


Depends, if I found out years later after bonding with the child then I would treat the child as my own, despite whether the marriage lasted or not. If, however, I knew it was another man's prior to the pregnancy, I just couldn't do it. I would divorce her. If it was right after the pregnancy I don't know what I'd do, since I fell in love with my little one the day she was born. Either way, I don't think I'd ever have the forgiveness that Drifted On has. My EX-W cheated on me in much less heinous way (meaning she didn't get pregs with OM/OM's), even so I don't think I'll ever forgive her betrayal. Not that it matters at this point.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I think this might be a little difficult for a child to wrap their heads around at so early an age. I tried to explain to my 9 year old about dogs going into heat and found myself verging on the precipice of too graphic detail and confusing her (and me) even more with the scientific explanation of hormones. So, it may just be something you have to wait until they are mentally able to process the information.



Heat? I didn’t think that this is the part that needs to be explained to a child...but most child psychologists agree that it’s best to mention things in relation with bio versus non bio parent so that it’s not such a shock to them later.
So I’m surprised that he would have received the advice to wait until kids are 18 because that’s certainly not the recommendation usually given.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Heat? I didn’t think that this is the part that needs to be explained to a child...but most child psychologists agree that it’s best to mention things in relation with bio versus non bio parent so that it’s not such a shock to them later.
> So I’m surprised that he would have received the advice to wait until kids are 18 because that’s certainly not the recommendation usually given.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Posted by me just a few posts above, I don’t know if I can be any more clear.

I understand this can be triggering you very much, and that you may not agree with my decisions and actions, my two largest priorities are myself and the boys. They will be told before the age of eighteen, I’ve ssid that, but both myself and therapist believe it to be in the best interest that they meet OM after the age of eighteen. I cannot stop this, yet I will listen to them if they decide they want to meet OM before the age of eighteen. Personally I feel I’m being very open to hear the boys for their needs.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> Heat? I didn’t think that this is the part that needs to be explained to a child...but most child psychologists agree that it’s best to mention things in relation with bio versus non bio parent so that it’s not such a shock to them later.
> So I’m surprised that he would have received the advice to wait until kids are 18 because that’s certainly not the recommendation usually given.


In this circumstance, how would one go about doing that without telling the children that their mother cheated? It's not the same as telling a child that his parents adopted him. In some cases it's obvious that a child is adopted when he doesn't look like either of his parents. I have a cousin who was adopted and is an obviously different ethnicity from his parents. It was easy for them to tell him that they chose him specifically because they connected to him and wanted him to be part of their family.

The circumstances here are much different. There are many aspects to the situation. You don't want to give the children the impression that what happened was okay, but you don't want to traumatize them either.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

drifting on said:


> Posted by me just a few posts above, I don’t know if I can be any more clear.
> 
> I understand this can be triggering you very much, and that you may not agree with my decisions and actions, my two largest priorities are myself and the boys. They will be told before the age of eighteen, I’ve ssid that, but both myself and therapist believe it to be in the best interest that they meet OM after the age of eighteen. I cannot stop this, yet I will listen to them if they decide they want to meet OM before the age of eighteen. Personally I feel I’m being very open to hear the boys for their needs.


When a child is adopted, I am a believer in them knowing all along.

THIS is not an adoption situation. This is much different. I can definitely understand why this is something that would require great care and waiting until they are able to understand what it means. It will be hard either way, but, sadly, that is one of the many painful consequences of adultery. 

I admire you very much


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

drifting on said:


> Why does OM deserve destruction? Really? How about he had sex with my wife? Not reason enough? How about because my transgressions have been minimal to him compared to what he did? Still not reason enough? Because he was stupid enough to have sex with a married woman who is married to someone who finds that reason for OM to no longer breathe. I have forgiven my wife because of the hard work and repentance she is trying to achieve. She has suffered my consequences and her own. Justice will never ever be repaid to me by them, it will be to God. I can never forgive OM, not in me to do so, but I haven’t really gone out of my way to seek the justice I want to bring him too, he is still breathing.
> 
> As for what happened, I know about as much as I will ever know, the full truth, find one thread here where the betrayed did find the entire truth. It’s impossible.
> 
> ...


Fair enough on the first part. I would do the same, but I would also divorce. Your decisions are what is right for you, and that is all that matters.

Everyone post for a reason. Some for entertainment, some to give advice and some from experience. I do not post to infidelity threads, since it has no bearing on my life. Paternity threads are another matter. My brother fought for a son he did not know. The issue was never resolved and he passed a few years ago. His son was not permitted to go to the funeral. My entire family will hate that woman until the day she dies. This is my projection onto your thread. It is not you i question, it is your wife. 

I find it strange that in 3 years of working together, your wife never told the OM directly he was the father. Could it be that he was told he is NOT the father? You say you do not know the complete truth, however you do have the ability to know, but you chose not to ask the question. With that said, the truth is what you want to believe, so there is no point in anyone outside of your family questioning your beliefs.

The OM may not be able to destroy you financially, but if he has a change of heart, there will be a fight, and if your wife told him he was not the father, then you have a "he said, she said" situation. If you seek to destroy him during this process, you will look vindictive and will probably lose. You wrote that your wife has changed. So can he.

The point of all my post were to suggest that you get the paternity waived. If everything is as you say it is, this should not be a problem. Your lawyer has prepared you for a battle that need not be fought. Consider a different approach. But if you think you and your lawyer have everything covered, then good luck to you.

I will also bow out of this thread, since words are pointless. The dead have been buried and should remain that way.


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

TheBohannons said:


> Fair enough on the first part. I would do the same, but I would also divorce. Your decisions are what is right for you, and that is all that matters.
> 
> Everyone post for a reason. Some for entertainment, some to give advice and some from experience. I do not post to infidelity threads, since it has no bearing on my life. Paternity threads are another matter. My brother fought for a son he did not know. The issue was never resolved and he passed a few years ago. His son was not permitted to go to the funeral. My entire family will hate that woman until the day she dies. This is my projection onto your thread. It is not you i question, it is your wife.
> 
> ...



She can't ask him to terminate his rights, because he has no clue he's a father. If she had told him there was a possibility of him being the father, and if he wanted nothing to do with the child, he would have 1) demanded a paternity test, and 2) waived his rights then and there, so he wouldn't be on the hook for child support. He did neither of those things. What man who wants nothing to do with a pregnancy would bet on faith that his AP would lie to her husband about paternity?

The second bit of fallout from asking him to waive his parental rights now would be admitting they have knowledge that DO isn't the father. Right now they can maintain plausible deniability. In one of his other threads he said they hadn't done a paternity test themselves, and something about wanting to go after OM for child support when the kids are going to college. Admitting now might hinder those plans.



DO, I urge you to seek other, different professional help for your destroying OM and your attitude of wanting him to stop breathing. I don't know any lawyer or therapist who would go along with this festering anger and hatred toward another person, and certainly not a Christian therapist. My husband cheated and I don't feel that kind of hatred toward his OWs. In my first initial rage, I found where one of them worked and their work email. I seriously considered writing a rage-filled email toward her, but I stopped myself. Now, 10 months later, I don't feel any of that rage toward her, and I don't even feel it toward my STBXH. You need to let go of the hate, it is not healthy.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I think I would tell them that they were the product of a sperm donor, like artificial insemination. Which is kind of true, and then tell them the reason why later.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

My question is that many here seem to think that drifting on and Mrs. drifting on should tell the boys that drifting on isn't their biological father. Since it's much different than adoption and even different from a sperm donor, how on earth do they go about telling the children without traumatizing them? I don't know that there is a way.

Of course they will eventually know the truth and it would be easy to tell them when they are older, but by then it could create even more problems. I think it's better to slip it in there somehow. But I don't have any recommendations as to how. It seems like a conundrum to me.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

sokillme said:


> I think I would tell them that they were the product of a sperm donor, like artificial insemination. Which is kind of true, and then tell them the reason why later.


No offense, but telling a child this (a lie) and then telling them the truth later is a worse idea than just waiting, IMO

I get that we all wanna stick it to mom, and I think she needs consequences. But they are KIDS


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

CynthiaDe said:


> In this circumstance, how would one go about doing that without telling the children that their mother cheated?



Why do they NEED to know their mother cheated? They will be able to put two and two together later on their own.

There are two issues here and maybe we are not talking abut the same thing.

One is the cheating and the other is the non bio dad issue. My concern (as a parent) would be to try and lessen the shock of dropping the news at some point in the future that I’m not their bio dad so I would probably try to mention this when they are 6-7 etc so that they get used to that idea.

The affair, the cheating and lack of trust and any unresolved mess related with the marriage etc is entirely between the parents to sort out; I wouldn’t want my kids to have any part in this for many reasons; they may feel like they will need to take sides or it may backfire and I think it will actually increase the chances that they will want to go off and find their bio dad. Have you seen the video? This is basically what they might have to deal with.

And on another note: I also would not be able to walk out on the kids if I found out they weren’t mine (biologically). I think anyone who says they could is probably not a parent. Genes don’t mean everything.



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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

drifting on said:


> Posted by me just a few posts above, I don’t know if I can be any more clear.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand this can be triggering you very much, and that you may not agree with my decisions and actions, my two largest priorities are myself and the boys. They will be told before the age of eighteen, I’ve ssid that, but both myself and therapist believe it to be in the best interest that they meet OM after the age of eighteen. I cannot stop this, yet I will listen to them if they decide they want to meet OM before the age of eighteen. Personally I feel I’m being very open to hear the boys for their needs.




Maybe I misread the meaning but when you posted that you are sure your wife will ‘pay’ again once you sit her and your kids down when they are 18 or 16 and explain to them what she did.
It sounded a bit like a revenge plot rather than anything else (especially when many of the posts revolve around going all ‘old testament’ on her and holding her feet to the fire etc - I’m still not sure what that means) so it was perhaps a trigger. If I misunderstood it, my apologies.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> Why do they NEED to know their mother cheated? They will be able to put two and two together later on their own.
> 
> There are two issues here and maybe we are not talking abut the same thing.
> 
> One is the cheating and the other is the non bio dad issue. My concern (as a parent) would be to try and lessen the shock of dropping the news at some point in the future that I’m not their bio dad so I would probably try to mention this when they are 6-7 etc so that they get used to that idea.


They are not two separate issues. If you tell the children that their father isn't their biological father, they will want to know how that works and why not. That's what kids do. They ask questions. They are like little sponges soaking up information and trying to put it together into some manageable form so they can understand the world around them.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> My question is that many here seem to think that drifting on and Mrs. drifting on should tell the boys that drifting on isn't their biological father. Since it's much different than adoption and even different from a sperm donor, how on earth do they go about telling the children without traumatizing them? I don't know that there is a way.
> 
> Of course they will eventually know the truth and it would be easy to tell them when they are older, but by then it could create even more problems. I think it's better to slip it in there somehow. But I don't have any recommendations as to how. It seems like a conundrum to me.




This is the difficulty we run into, it’s do we tell them but how. This is the exact reason I have enlisted the help of professionals. I do not want to traumatize the kids nor does my wife. We both fully understand they need to know so they don’t live a lie. I will say that the best interest and well being of the children come first. My feelings as well as my wife’s will come second to the kids. 

I do want to express my gratitude to all posters who have given me their thoughts. Your thoughts are important and read carefully by me, even those I may disagree with. There is no such thing as too much advice when it comes to getting this right for the kids. 

A personal note to @azimuth, I am sorry that this thread has triggered you so much. You are quite strong as a person to keep advising me when this may cause you inner turmoil. I hope you keep posting on this thread and others as you have such great wisdom to share. Thank you.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Maybe I misread the meaning but when you posted that you are sure your wife will ‘pay’ again once you sit her and your kids down when they are 18 or 16 and explain to them what she did.
> It sounded a bit like a revenge plot rather than anything else (especially when many of the posts revolve around going all ‘old testament’ on her and holding her feet to the fire etc - I’m still not sure what that means) so it was perhaps a trigger. If I misunderstood it, my apologies.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





My wife will indeed pay again, but not at my hands, she will from her actions. Informing the kids is going to hurt my wife very much, all the talks we will have explaining what happened. This isn’t my revenge, it’s her own consequences, her own actions, that are going to cause the boys pain. My wife had consequences, some by me and some not by me. I held her feet to the fire so she understands what her actions did to me, what it did to the marriage, and what the future will or may hold. I have forgiven her and she has worked very hard to change, grow, become healthier. Infidelity is a beast, felt by all involved one way or another.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

CynthiaDe said:


> That's what kids do. They ask questions. They are like little sponges soaking up information and trying to put it together into some manageable form so they can understand the world around them.



But that’s the benefit of telling them as early as possible; as the grow older, they ask more and more relevant questions and you don’t withhold the answers.
I know it’s tricky and extremely sensitive, that’s why a good psychologist is extremely important.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> But that’s the benefit of telling them as early as possible; as the grow older, they ask more and more relevant questions and you don’t withhold the answers.
> I know it’s tricky and extremely sensitive, that’s why a good psychologist is extremely important.


Sure, but I think the kids are going to recognize that their mother cheated. I don't see any way around it if they are going to be told that they are not biologically related to their dad. Yes, they need to know that they are not biologically related to drifting on, but that information is going to include them realizing that their mother cheated. No way around it as I can see. That is why drifting on and his wife haven't told them so far, because it would include them knowing that their mother cheated. That's the entire reason why they have no clue, because they can't tell them one without the other. They are intertwined and cannot be separated.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

We just found out on another thread that a "child" finds out her father isn't truly the father. 27 years later... 

The harm done is acceptable then? Since time was bought and the child was duped? I'm for the honesty. Treat it with kid gloves, but tell the truth. We are always told to never lie to a child...Why would we now?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

BarbedFenceRider said:


> We just found out on another thread that a "child" finds out her father isn't truly the father. 27 years later...
> 
> The harm done is acceptable then? Since time was bought and the child was duped? I'm for the honesty. Treat it with kid gloves, but tell the truth. We are always told to never lie to a child...Why would we now?


Oh my gosh! Have you even read the thread? These are little children, not 27 year old women whose parents were too cowardly to tell her the truth, even when they knew she was having her DNA tested. That is not at all what is going on here.

The children in question are still little kids. They do not need to know that their mother was involved in adultery. That is not age appropriate information. If they know that their father isn't biologically related to them, there is no way to separate that information from the fact that their mother was an adulteress. 

Drifting on and his wife plan to tells the kids, but they are not going to tell them until they can also process and work through the fact that their mother was an adulteress. That's too much for little kids to grasp. Again, this is all in the thread.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> Oh my gosh! Have you even read the thread? These are little children, not 27 year old women whose parents were too cowardly to tell her the truth, even when they knew she was having her DNA tested. That is not at all what is going on here.
> 
> The children in question are still little kids. They do not need to know that their mother was involved in adultery. That is not age appropriate information. If they know that their father isn't biologically related to them, there is no way to separate that information from the fact that their mother was an adulteress.
> 
> Drifting on and his wife plan to tells the kids, but they are not going to tell them until they can also process and work through the fact that their mother was an adulteress. That's too much for little kids to grasp. Again, this is all in the thread.


"Hence the words...Childs gloves!"

And yes children can know the difference. I did. Since I was in elementary school, I knew that I was "special" and was not exactly related to my brother or my parents.. 

NO- You don't tell the kids that mom ran a train and became the ***** of Babylon. But you must tell the truth. That is all I was saying.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

CynthiaDe said:


> Sure, but I think the kids are going to recognize that their mother cheated. I don't see any way around it if they are going to be told that they are not biologically related to their dad. Yes, they need to know that they are not biologically related to drifting on, but that information is going to include them realizing that their mother cheated. No way around it as I can see. That is why drifting on and his wife haven't told them so far, because it would include them knowing that their mother cheated. That's the entire reason why they have no clue, because they can't tell them one without the other. They are intertwined and cannot be separated.



I didn’t mean to hide it either. Of course eventually they will probably have the full picture when they are more grown up to ask the relevant questions. But they don’t have to start out with the full picture. No kids ever do, even in cases when they have been adopted. They won’t understand the concept fully anyway at that age but that’s a good thing. All they need to know is that the parents have been honest with them all along because when the time comes and they begin to see the full picture, that’s when it will matter to them the most that the parents were always honest and straight with them.

Let me flip the question around and ask how you ensure that the child doesn’t feel they have been lied to and manipulated for all those years that they were growing up? I don’t quite understand the main motivation for waiting. 


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

drifting on said:


> both myself and therapist believe it to be in the best interest that they meet OM after the age of eighteen.



Whose ‘best interest’ is it supposed to be?

Have you considered the possibility that you might alienate the boys from you if they feel that you deliberately withheld the truth from them for 18 years?

I wouldn’t be surprised if the OM wants nothing to do with the kids but it’s the kind of information it might be better to verify through the lawyer and get the waiver rather than relying on your wife’s words.



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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> Oh my gosh! Have you even read the thread? These are little children, not 27 year old women whose parents were too cowardly to tell her the truth, even when they knew she was having her DNA tested. That is not at all what is going on here.


You mean parent. Her parent was too cowardly to tell her the truth.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

drifting on said:


> My wife will indeed pay again, but not at my hands, she will from her actions. Informing the kids is going to hurt my wife very much, all the talks we will have explaining what happened. This isn’t my revenge, it’s her own consequences, her own actions, that are going to cause the boys pain.


Why do you feel that it’s your wife who will ‘pay’ at the point when you tell the kids? I’m not sure you understand the first truism of being a parent: no matter what she did TO YOU, she will always be a mother TO THEM.
Kids are not an extension of you or your feelings. They are their own individuals.

What if they ask you: “why have you waited all this time to tell us? And why have we never met our biological father?” Will you have a good answer for these questions?

What if they direct their adverse reaction to this news at you instead, for actively withholding this information from them? 
If that was even a remote possibility (and I don’t think it’s that remote), I would really try everything to eliminate it.



drifting on said:


> My wife had consequences, some by me and some not by me. I held her feet to the fire so she understands what her actions did to me, what it did to the marriage, and what the future will or may hold.



What do you actually mean by this? What did you do to her/what consequences has she endured? You never really addressed it except to say that whatever it is you did, would not be acceptable for these boards, or something similar. It seems somewhat cryptic and I don’t want to read the wrong things into it.



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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

DO, seek professional advice as to when and how to disclose to the children. I read about the woman who found out after 27years . Lets double that, 54 years later, with a close friend of my family. She and her husband sent off their DNA along with her 4 siblings for fun.
She found out she was 1/2 Italian. This was shortly after her dad died. Her sisters and brothers all were blond headed and fair skinned while she had jet black hair and olive skin. Funny how we all grew up together and never gave her appearance a second thought.

Well when the results came back needless to say she was shocked. She learned after confronting her mother, that mom had an affair with an Italian gentlemen while her father was at sea. This knocked her for a loop. After much therapy, she decided to look up her biological father and they were able to meet and she found she had five other siblings.


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

drifting on said:


> This is the difficulty we run into, it’s do we tell them but how. This is the exact reason I have enlisted the help of professionals. I do not want to traumatize the kids nor does my wife. We both fully understand they need to know so they don’t live a lie. I will say that the best interest and well being of the children come first. My feelings as well as my wife’s will come second to the kids.
> 
> I do want to express my gratitude to all posters who have given me their thoughts. Your thoughts are important and read carefully by me, even those I may disagree with. There is no such thing as too much advice when it comes to getting this right for the kids.
> 
> A personal note to @azimuth, I am sorry that this thread has triggered you so much. You are quite strong as a person to keep advising me when this may cause you inner turmoil. I hope you keep posting on this thread and others as you have such great wisdom to share. Thank you.


Thank you. My mom relied on me a lot to support her emotionally. I think I became in tune with her "inner child" and felt her pain, as our roles were reversed. As a consequence it kills me to see any kids hurting. When she found out she was adopted she felt betrayed by her adopted parents and also anger at her birth mom for "giving her away." She didn't take it well at all. She rebelled against her adopted parents in severe ways that couldn't be undone (when she was a teenager and adult). She took out her anger at her birth mom on her adopted parents for the rest of their lives.

There is no way to get through this without everyone enduring significant pain. I will say your wife is very lucky to have you support her and cover for her even though she screwed up so badly. I would be very uncomfortable with protecting her reputation by lying to the boys. I know it's a fine line and on one hand they see a marriage with forgiveness, but on the other they'll also feel the image of the perfect family was a lie. Good luck and peace


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> Drifting on and his wife plan to tells the kids, but they are not going to tell them until they can also process and work through the fact that their mother was an adulteress. That's too much for little kids to grasp. Again, this is all in the thread.


It's not ok to lie and say, "I'm going to lie for 10 years, but after that I'll tell the truth." That wouldn't work in a relationship between adults and it doesn't work between adults and kids either. When the kids grow up and learn the truth, they'll realize lying was a daily part of their household, that the image of a perfect family was false.

As far as learning their mother was an adultress, that's one of the consequences of her cheating. Their perfect mom was not so perfect. Her image and reputation is not more important than knowing who their father is.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

DriftingOn,

Do the Grandparents know the story and other family members?

It is unfair to present children as blood to people to whom it may matter, particularly your parents.

I can tell you as an OC myself that it is likely the children will want to make contact with their biological family, I wanted to and did find them.

Tamat


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

Super big hug Azimuth.

U2 drifting.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

TheBohannons said:


> Super big hug Azimuth.
> 
> U2 drifting.





Thank you. This has been a very difficult few days trying to navigate through this mess that is best for the kids. My feelings are aside, the boys are who we need to do this right for. I will talk to my therapist as to how and when this is best for the boys including perceptions from posters here. My therapist knows I post here, has encouraged me, as well as it is beneficial to me.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> DO, seek professional advice as to when and how to disclose to the children. I read about the woman who found out after 27years . Lets double that, 54 years later, with a close friend of my family. She and her husband sent off their DNA along with her 4 siblings for fun.
> She found out she was 1/2 Italian. This was shortly after her dad died. Her sisters and brothers all were blond headed and fair skinned while she had jet black hair and olive skin. Funny how we all grew up together and never gave her appearance a second thought.
> 
> Well when the results came back needless to say she was shocked. She learned after confronting her mother, that mom had an affair with an Italian gentlemen while her father was at sea. This knocked her for a loop. After much therapy, she decided to look up her biological father and they were able to meet and she found she had five other siblings.




Thank you for this brother, I can tell you we do indeed plan on telling the kids before the age of 27 or 54. I will use posts from here and my own thoughts with my therapist on when to tell them. Your advice means a lot to me.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

DO - Tell your kids you love them often. Show your kids you love them with action. When they do wrong correct them and then tell them you love them. When they do right tell them how proud you are but that is not why you love them. When life gets hard and they are suffering tell them you are sorry for their pain but that no matter what YOU will always love them. Strive to do your best with them so that when they have questions you can say honestly, I did what I thought was best, so even if you were wrong they will know that it was with good intentions because they will have a lifetime of experience that leaves no doubt. And if your kids grow up to be decent people they will forgive you if you were wrong because they will have learned that love should not be conditional when it was given unconditionally. If they have questions about your relationship because of your DNA make sure they will never have a doubt about your love. In the end that is what you have to put your trust in and frankly that is much stronger then chromosomes. Everyone has parents, lots and lots of people wish they had Mom's and Dads. 

That's all you can do.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

drifting on said:


> Thank you. This has been a very difficult few days trying to navigate through this mess that is best for the kids. My feelings are aside, the boys are who we need to do this right for. I will talk to my therapist as to how and when this is best for the boys including perceptions from posters here. My therapist knows I post here, has encouraged me, as well as it is beneficial to me.



Don’t navigate through it all by yourself. Talk to your therapist that you are worried that the kids might feel you lied to them once they grow up and how to avoid it. A good therapist and specialist in this kind of thing will know techniques how to navigate through it. It’s a very difficult situation and when you are in the middle of it yourself, very difficult to not make mistakes. (Completely understandable).


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

sokillme said:


> DO - Tell your kids you love them often. Show your kids you love them with action. When they do wrong correct them and then tell them you love them. When they do right tell them how proud you are but that is not why you love them. When life gets hard and they are suffering tell them you are sorry for their pain but that no matter what YOU will always love them. Strive to do your best with them so that when they have questions you can say honestly, I did what I thought was best, so even if you were wrong they will know that it was with good intentions because they will have a lifetime of experience that leaves no doubt. And if your kids grow up to be decent people they will forgive you if you were wrong because they will have learned that love should not be conditional when it was given unconditionally. If they have questions about your relationship because of your DNA make sure they will never have a doubt about your love. In the end that is what you have to put your trust in and frankly that is much stronger then chromosomes. Everyone has parents, lots and lots of people wish they had Mom's and Dads.
> 
> That's all you can do.




Basically you have summed up what I am doing and have tried to do since birth. Even though I have tried my best I am human and will make errors, but every chance I have I let them know they are loved. All of my actions have shown I love them unconditionally, even when I have made errors. I tell them when I’m wrong, then tell them what I should have done, so they understand nobody is perfect. We all have made mistakes or errors, I tell them that your response to that mistake or errror is what’s important. 

Some nights at bedtime they ask either me or my wife to lay with them. One night I was laying with one and my arm draped over him. He grabbed my arm and pulled it into his chest, then softly said thanks. I asked him why he said thanks, to which he replied, I feel safe this way. When I eventually walked out of the room, I couldn’t help but shed a few tears. Since the day they were born I have loved them unconditionally, nothing changed after d-day in how I love them. 

I’ve said before @sokillme that you make me think and challenge me with each post. I will tell you it makes me feel good in that I’m doing what you have written. I have a great amount of respect for you, and for me to be doing what you have said shows I’m on the right path with the boys. We have a three day weekend coming up, so far we are planning on fishing and going to a carnival at the boys request. 

I understand the boys are going to eventually want to meet their biological father. I can’t and won’t stop this from happening, it’s what they need despite my feelings. After viewing this situation and the posts of others, if it’s before the age of eighteen I will consider them meeting OM. I’m not worried about the boys comparing OM to myself, I’m not worried about the boys wanting to know OM, I do know the boys know I love them. I do know the boys know I love them without limits, and I do know the boys genuinely love what we do together. They may be young, but they are very sharp and very quick learners.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

drifting on said:


> Thank you. This has been a very difficult few days trying to navigate through this mess that is best for the kids. My feelings are aside, the boys are who we need to do this right for. I will talk to my therapist as to how and when this is best for the boys including perceptions from posters here. My therapist knows I post here, has encouraged me, as well as it is beneficial to me.


I think this is good. Bottom line - they are YOUR children and this is YOUR decision. Other than the fact that we can all read and weigh in anonymously....it really is none of our business. It's easy to pass out edicts when you don't have to be around to pick up the pieces.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Why do you feel that it’s your wife who will ‘pay’ at the point when you tell the kids? I’m not sure you understand the first truism of being a parent: no matter what she did TO YOU, she will always be a mother TO THEM.
> Kids are not an extension of you or your feelings. They are their own individuals.
> 
> What if they ask you: “why have you waited all this time to tell us? And why have we never met our biological father?” Will you have a good answer for these questions?
> ...






The boys reaction may very well be adverse to me, or it could be that they love me even more. Without a doubt our entire families reaction will be affected. That’s just it, we don’t know what the reaction will be to this news. I am prepared that the boys will be angry, may even resent me, and we will need to work through this in therapy. One thing won’t change, my love for them.

As for consequences, my wife had many, and you are correct, I don’t reveal them here. I believe this to be between my wife and I, some things I still consider to be private. This may frustrate you that I don’t share that information, but I feel it’s private.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

@inmyprime, I’m going to try to explain why I say my wife will pay again. Remove me from the entire situation, that is first to do. Now that I’m removed, any pain or hardship the boys endure is because of my wife’s actions. How would you feel? Would you feel terrible knowing that you caused that pain and hardship? Wouldn’t you be paying yet again for your choices? That is what I mean when I say she will pay again. I have nothing to do with the remorsecshe feels. I have nothing to do with her trying to repent. These are all on her, I can’t do anything to alleviate any of it. Personally, I don’t feel it should be on me, infidelity was her choice alone, she never consulted me about having an affair.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

drifting on said:


> Basically you have summed up what I am doing and have tried to do since birth. Even though I have tried my best I am human and will make errors, but every chance I have I let them know they are loved. All of my actions have shown I love them unconditionally, even when I have made errors. I tell them when I’m wrong, then tell them what I should have done, so they understand nobody is perfect. We all have made mistakes or errors, I tell them that your response to that mistake or errror is what’s important.
> 
> Some nights at bedtime they ask either me or my wife to lay with them. One night I was laying with one and my arm draped over him. He grabbed my arm and pulled it into his chest, then softly said thanks. I asked him why he said thanks, to which he replied, I feel safe this way. When I eventually walked out of the room, I couldn’t help but shed a few tears. Since the day they were born I have loved them unconditionally, nothing changed after d-day in how I love them.
> 
> ...


The respect is mutual my friend. As I have said your love and forgiveness also challenge me. 

I wrote that stuff about love because this is how I feel about my parents. My Dad was an awful husband and has issues with women obviously. He and I don't really have the same life philosophy so that is always a challenge. But I have never had a doubt that he loves me. There are many times that I was terribly hurt and angry at what he did (and with good reason) in the end I was able to completely forgive him because I don't believe it was done to me with malice, I think he has some serious failings and he did his best in the context of those failings. Luck for both of us those failings never were enough to destroy are relationship as father and son. I am not sure it's the same for his daughters and that is a real shame for both of them. I would never be married to him though. My Mother also made some very bad choices but she lived much of her life for me which is all that is needed to be said. I have dinner with each of them once a month. We have wonderful relationships. All of that is because at the end of the day what I wrote in that post is how it was.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

drifting on said:


> The boys reaction may very well be adverse to me, or it could be that they love me even more. Without a doubt our entire families reaction will be affected. That’s just it, we don’t know what the reaction will be to this news. I am prepared that the boys will be angry, may even resent me, and we will need to work through this in therapy. One thing won’t change, my love for them.
> 
> As for consequences, my wife had many, and you are correct, I don’t reveal them here. I believe this to be between my wife and I, some things I still consider to be private. This may frustrate you that I don’t share that information, but I feel it’s private.


DO, they will love you more. I will use my friend as an example. Her father ( not biological one) was an honorable man who did not want to expose his wife to shame according to her mother. When his tour of duty was over his wife was six months pregnant.He was hurt, but he loved her mother. She knew he could very easily filed for divorce and leave. This only made our friend love her fathermore. Quite honestly growing up, it seemed she was his favorite of his six children. 

Once they know the truth, I feel they will realize what a stand up guy you are. They will know you love them by the course of action you charted. Fear not.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> DO, they will love you more. I will use my friend as an example. Her father ( not biological one) was an honorable man who did not want to expose his wife to shame according to her mother. When his tour of duty was over his wife was six months pregnant.He was hurt, but he loved her mother. She knew he could very easily filed for divorce and leave. This only made our friend love her fathermore. Quite honestly growing up, it seemed she was his favorite of his six children.
> 
> Once they know the truth, I feel they will realize what a stand up guy you are. They will know you love them by the course of action you charted. Fear not.





Thank you my friend, your post has lifted me that we will get through this with a positive outcome. Of course it will be hard, but we have resources to help us along the way. God bless.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

sokillme said:


> I think I would tell them that they were the product of a sperm donor, like artificial insemination. Which is kind of true, and then tell them the reason why later.


This lying. No reason to lie to a child.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Children young a four understand the concept of boyfriend and girl friend and
marriage, pairing up. That married people do not have BF/GF and gone on dates with them.

So when a the BS tells the child that the WS did not behave for they had a BF/GF and
went on dates with them. That behavior is called cheating.

This is a perfect age appropriate talk with the child/children.

If the affair resulted in an OC at four years of age they understand
the concept of having parents. When a movie, tv show, relative, a
neighbor adopts a child they understand that the child was not born
into the family, rather other people had the child but did not keep the child.

That is the signal to tell the child often people have more than one mom
and or dad. Jr, you are one of those people you have two dads.

Child asks why?

Well mom had you with another man. But you mom and dad love you
and are family is staying the way it is.

Child at four does not take things farther because he mind cannot take
him there.

Though when the child gets older he will hear something that will cause him
to trigger the memory of him having a second dad. Such as who is my
other dad?

Tell the OC the name then change the subject. Usually a simple direct answer
will quench their appetite for knowledge do their age.

By the time the child hits 12 they will ask if you were married how did mom
have a child with the second dad. Then the time for the truth about the affair.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

No need to tell a small child. No matter what motorcycle guy and his cult say.

Drifting, you do what you believe is right for YOUR child and YOUR family. This isnt a single doctrine, cookie cutter site (thank God)


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

This would mess a child up. Little children cannot understand these concepts. They can understand having a boyfriend or girlfriend, but that does not translate into a fall from innocence.

It's like people do not understand the innocence of children anymore. It's bizarre and unhealthy for little children to have to cope with the concepts of sexual relationships, adultery, etc. I'm glad for drifting on's children that he and his wife understand and are sensitive to their children's hearts.



oldtruck said:


> Children young a four understand the concept of boyfriend and girl friend and
> marriage, pairing up. That married people do not have BF/GF and gone on dates with them.
> 
> So when a the BS tells the child that the WS did not behave for they had a BF/GF and
> ...


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> Drifting, you do what you believe is right for YOUR child and YOUR family. This isnt a single doctrine, cookie cutter site (thank God)


 QFT. ^
@drifting on, I won't try to pretend that I know what I would do if I was in your shoes, but I just wanted to let you know that I have the utmost respect for you in your resolute choice and your patience with having to repeat yourself endlessly here. 

RC


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Rubix Cubed said:


> QFT. ^
> @drifting on, I won't try to pretend that I know what I would do if I was in your shoes, but I just wanted to let you know that I have the utmost respect for you in your resolute choice and your patience with having to repeat yourself endlessly here.
> 
> RC




To be as honest as I can be, I don’t know what I would advise if this situation came up in a thread here. While I’m looking for different perceptions then just my own, it’s got to be difficult to even give advice to my situation. Right now I’m seeking guidance from my therapist to go the correct path. The last thing I want to do is harm the boys, that would kill me inside worse then the affair itself. I appreciate your posts Rubix, you have a great ability to say exactly what is needed at the exact time it’s needed. I have great respect for you as well. God bless.


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## Mstanton (Feb 8, 2011)

I'm amazed you did not murder her. Jesus would not have blamed you, you know?


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## Mstanton (Feb 8, 2011)

"Coping with infidelity is a forum filled with pain and destruction, hopefully today each of you smile that peace and happiness can once again return to your life."

Oh, no... no no no. You got back with her? Why? My god the children are someone else's on top of her cheating on you! You should have filled her life with pain and destruction. Hatred is a beautiful thing.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Mstanton said:


> I'm amazed you did not murder her. Jesus would not have blamed you, you know?




Jesus probably wouldn’t but his dad might.
Best not to murder people overall but I agree with the sentiment...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

drifting on said:


> To be as honest as I can be, I don’t know what I would advise if this situation came up in a thread here. While I’m looking for different perceptions then just my own, it’s got to be difficult to even give advice to my situation. Right now I’m seeking guidance from my therapist to go the correct path. The last thing I want to do is harm the boys, that would kill me inside worse then the affair itself. I appreciate your posts Rubix, you have a great ability to say exactly what is needed at the exact time it’s needed. I have great respect for you as well. God bless.


Others are right; nobody can *tell* you what's the best thing to do. I can only point out some risks of one approach over another - from an outsider's point of view - and you should then discuss this with a specialist and come to a decision. Ideally it should be a rational decision; not based on emotion, fear, anger or retribution; then it will have highest chance to be the 'correct' decision (if there is such a thing in those circumstances).
Best of luck.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Mstanton said:


> "Coping with infidelity is a forum filled with pain and destruction, hopefully today each of you smile that peace and happiness can once again return to your life."
> 
> Oh, no... no no no. You got back with her? Why? My god the children are someone else's on top of her cheating on you! You should have filled her life with pain and destruction. Hatred is a beautiful thing.





You are correct in that coping with infidelity is filled with pain and destruction. It is also filled with broken and unhealthy people who are trying to recover from a serious hit to their life, hence the word coping in the title. Many who have come here to this section had their world rocked hard, they are lost and in shock to some degree, myself included. I was a complete mess, many posters here steered me on the correct path to living healthy again. Difficult decisions must be made, and me reconciling was not very popular among many posters. However, I chose reconciliation from a position of strength, not emotions. I know I will be just fine with or without her, and it was very liberating on my part to tell her that. On her end it meant that she had better do the heavy lifting and become a healthy partner for me. Some of the changes placed fear in her, fear that she had misread me, and that she had consequences. 

Her life has had its fair share of pain and destruction, some by my hands and some not. In her efforts to repent she will and does feel pain and destruction. She will feel more when it is explained to the boys as she knows she caused all of this. While Jesus will forgive her, her time on the chair of atonement will not be as easy. It is here that she pays for her sins for her life choices as we all will. You have said hatred is a beautiful thing, yet I find hatred to a road block to peace and happiness. I don’t hate the OM, I don’t hate my wife, I do however poke OM every now and then, but have stopped. Jesus died for our sins, preaches to forgive and not cast stones, but I am unable to forgive OM. That is going to be my hardship on the chair of atonement, which I accept fully. To keep hating will destroy you, it will also keep peace and happiness at bay, for how can peace and happiness fill a person full of hate?


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

You're a better man than I am DO.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

Our MC equated "hating" someone to "drinking daily poison and expecting someone else to die". I like this analogy and remind my self of it when necessary. That hatred so easily spills over on to ourselves.

I think that when you realized you were going to be ok with her or without her, the tides changed. I'm still working towards that.

I try for now to use the mantra - I am enough for me. I look at my relationships with others- my kids, family, friends, co workers...and I feel like I am enough just as I am. Doesnt mean I cant improve my health or emotional fortitude - just means my inner core is strong and worthy of love just as I am.Forgiving oneself for our shortcomings and failures is important as well as forgiveness from god. Sometimes much harder to attain.

All the best to you and your family DO!


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