# The first days after discovery of cheating



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

I found out 2 nights ago that my wife of 2+ years is cheating on me with an also married male co-worker. We have a 2 year old daughter.

She accidentally pocket dialed me on during a 30 minute break from work and I had the extreme displeasure of hearing my wife having sex with a co-worker over the phone activated in her pants pocket as she was taking them off.

I called and told her what I heard. She claimed it was "making out" and touching, but not sex (I know what I heard). She worked the rest of her night shift and then didn't come home saying yesterday she was "afraid."

She came to the house in the afternoon where I expressed my hurt and anger. She was crying and apologetic. Initially telling me they hadn't had sex "yet," she eventually admitted to a 3 week time period where they had sex twice.

My gut was telling me something was up about 3-4 months ago. I really feel like she is lying about the whole truth of her involvement with this guy. I have been pressing her for honesty and full-disclosure, but does it matter? Once is really enough.

Grandma took the baby for the night (last night) because I wasn't up to being daddy while my wife went back to work. I asked her to stay at a friends last night because honestly I can't stand the sight of her at the moment.

If not for the baby, I would be filing for divorce today. Now I guess I have to decide if staying with a cheating spouse to raise our daughter together is something I can do, or not. Right now I feel disgust and anger. I can't imagine a time when seeing her naked will even be attractive to me again. She just seems gross to me now.

What have I done right/wrong these first couple of days after catching her? What should I be doing now?


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Welcome and sorry that you have joined us in these circumstances

You must understand the guidance I am giving you is from a process dedicated to saving marriages and is not personal opinion, please do not debate or try dilute the recommended approach. Ask any questions on the way 

You have confronted your wife 

The next step is to expose this to your family and hers and choose a small number of close married friends of hers to expose to as well. These friends are to be her confidants should she wish to speak to them, she will need someone to talk to, for you they must be pro your marriage. 

You may choose to call them or send them emails, we have templates for you to use .

Furthermore as the OM is married you tell his wife, have no delusions about this you find his wifes and friends details on facebook or any other way you can and you let her know, we have a template for this as well. it is critical you get this man out of your wifes life. 

Is your wife remorseful enough to stop the affair, you have to ask her.?

You cannot force her as she will go deeper underground.


Is she is then below is the script from the affaircare site:




> Here's the minimum that we usually recommend:
> 
> 1) Write a No Contact Letter to the Other Person (OP). The no contact letter is written by the DS to the OP and indicates that they can NEVER, EVER contact each other again in any way...including seeing each other. Here are some Sample No Contact Letters. If your DS works with the OP, he/she may need to quit their job or ask for a transfer, or may need to ask their employer for a shift that does not coincide with the OP. Most/many Disloyals balk at this or say "Are you crazy? I can't quit my job now!" but marriages can survive periods of unemployment or under-employment; they CAN NOT survive an active affair!!
> 
> ...


Summary is:

Your wife writes a no contact letter - there is to be no contact with the OM ever. 

Provides full transparency, she tells you all , answers any question and tells you of her movements, mails, calls etc.

Commits 100% to the marriage and the work required to rebuild the marriage and trust. 

In your case as they work together SHE LEAVES HER JOB NOW, not in a months time NOW. 


You then follow a Plan A



> The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A
> 
> 
> The carrot of Plan A
> ...


Be warned it is unlikely that the affair will stop easily, be on your guard if she chooses not to write the no contact letter then after exposure you let the company know they are having an affair. We can help you with words on this as well.

All the steps are to save your marriage, exposure to your family, hers family , her friends and the OM's family and friends is not revenge it is part of the process to bring the lie into the open and help the marriage recover. 

The assumption of all the above is you want to save your marriage. 

This will hurt you a lot, so be strong and hang in there. There is a plan we will guide you through it.

and accompany her for an STD check!!!!


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Reading material for you:

Affaircare site

Articles

Feel free to ask any questions


----------



## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I think you have done everything right so far. It is how you felt in response to her betrayal. First off, do not make a decision based up on your 2 year old. She is young enough where if you did decide to divorce her, it would easily become the natural way of things. Do not let your wife off the hook. You really don't need to know anything more. After all you heard it yourself. Do not believe a thing she says anyways, about anything. You discovered it, she did not confess. Make her stay somewhere else until you can deal. You need real contrition at this point. And right now you can't trust anything that comes out of her lying mouth. You need to expose this affair to everyone. That means the OMs wife, your family, her family, all your friends and her employer. Good luck.


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

Well, she just came by and we talked. 

I asked her to write a no contact letter. She didn't - saying she already told him it's over so there's no need.

I asked her to quit her job, she said no; she will "need the money if we separate."

I offered to make the drastic lifestyle changes needed and talked about the tremendous amount of work we'd have to put in to save the marriage. She responded that things have been bad for so long that she has little faith that we could get back to our happy place. She wants to continue to stay apart "to be sure or not of what she wants."

And now here I am alone wondering why I put myself out there like that when I was already feeling really angry and hurt.

Anyway, thanks for the advice above. Not sure of any next steps...but this is life.


----------



## Workingitout (Sep 27, 2010)

If she won't write the "no contact letter" its probably because she hasn't ended the affair. My wife swore her affair was over after I discovered the "I want you" text message. She swore that she called him and ended it. That was BS. All she did was buy a pre-paid cell phone and went "underground" with her affair. Affairs are rarely that easily ended. She probably has strong feelings for this guy and is not just going to end it easily.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

You cannot force her to send the nc or resign and it is likely she has not stopped the affair so-----


*
You expose*, if she uses facebook copy all her friends details into word so you have a record, if he is on facebook do the same. 


Start with her family and yours, parents, siblings and a number of close married friends of hers. Try find some acquaintances at her work to include in the list. 


Furthermore as the OM is married you tell his wife, his parents and his friends via facebook or any other way you can. Mobile number, email addresses, home address any way of sending them a mail text or letter. 


Once you have gathered the contact list we can give you a sample message .

Dig my friend dig and get that list together, do not let on what you are doing.


----------



## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Ya'll just regurgitate this stuff like a momma bird don't you? Every situation is different there isn't a master plan that works for everybody and there are MAJOR consequences from telling 1/2 the planet that your spouse is sleeping with someone else. What you describe is the last straw of many! Not the first!!

Baldman, ask yourself some serious questions the gut wrenchingly hard ones.

1) Was the marriage troubled? Were the problems caused by your actions or just lifes little surprises?

2) Why do you think you wife cheated or is cheating? Is it really worth the fight of going forward? 

3) It's not just the affair it's the lies upon lies the deciet and hiding for months that would trouble me. Honestly what would it take to trust her going forward?

I would have a few more hard heart to heart talks with her after doing some soul searching! Then go from there!! Depending on her response would depend on what steps you take going forward.

If you do follow the expose plan get ready for your life to be consumed with endless chatter and drama. IMO, this other guy was just her vehicle of choice removing the "vehicle" doesn't fix the problem.......I understand the point the affair must stop, but think long and hard before going down this road.

There are people that do treasure marriage, you do deserve better, and your baby she won't remember any of this anyway. I don't believe in saving a marriage at all costs!

If your wife's response was "Eh, I don't know we've been miserable a long time. I think I want to be seperated for awhile" it wouldn't take too long for me to move forward with divorce. 

You don't have to play this game and you deserve more! Keep us posted you will get alot of conflicting advice.


----------



## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

She won't quit her job because she is seriously considering divorce, and she still wants to be with OM. Tell their boss, and let the chips fall where they may. She only has herself to blame for the consequences.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

She should be in full cooperation mode, "I'll do whatever it takes" kind of thing. Your chick sounds like she wants it her way and that won't help you. For you to move forward she need to give her self back to you. Unfotunetly, it sound like she want to stay apart which = have you and the OM. Distance your self from her, pack her things up and take them to were ever she is staying.

She has it made, she now can come and go when she pleases. The advise from the other posts will help in making the affair as difficult as possible so listen to them.

When I confronted my W 11 months ago, she bent over backwards to redeem her self. What ever I needed to heal and forgive was given to me ( most everything). My wifes goal was to stand by me, answer my questions, and do what was nessesary to reassure me that he past behavior was in the past.

It sound as if your wife is not there, so expose this affair, and distance your self from her until she can give you 100% commitment, nothing less will do in my book.

Good luck and spend alot of time with your kid, do not let your child be exposed to the ughly behavior your wife is showing. Stay strong and confident, do not beg or plead, that is her job. For now don't ask her no questions and she will tell you no lies.

Stay busy with your kid, go find something that the both of you can do with out youw wife.

I hope your wife will turn this around and see there was a reason for the both of you to be married. Right now she is only thinking "me" and is making the marriage look as bad as possible to justify her guilt. She will want to pin this all on you, the bottom line is she broke her vow in commiting adultary, and every one should know. Expose it, do it now before she puts her spine on it.


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

Just saw her again for a minute.

She is showing some very selfish behavior, even now. She's complaining that everyone in her family is "telling her what to do," (her family knows now) and nobody seems to care about her happiness.

I told her that I'm not waiting around for her relationship with the other guy to lose stream or for his wife to find out and have her come back as option 2. I told her that she should feel grateful that I would participate in the recovery process (I doubt she would have given me the chance). And I told her that with new year starting on the first I want her to either get her stuff or choose me and her family.

By nature, though, she is a very selfish person and I doubt she will be willing to give up her new found happiness with her boyfriend (?) to make the sacrifices necessary to save her marriage. She is not good at seeing the big picture and seems addicted to the present and her happiness above all else.

Having just typed that I'm starting to wonder myself if I'm better off without her.


----------



## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Separate finances immediately and cut off any credit cards. Do not beg or plead or chase her. The more you do the faster she will run. She does not respect you and will respect you less if you chase her. Think about yourself and your girl. Worry about yourself and your girl. maintain your self respect. So far you handling things as best as possible. Move forward with your threat to put her out if she does not choose you and the family. Do not make it an idle threat. You must expose to the OMs wife. Good luck. And stay strong.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Baldmale~

First I just have to say I am impressed by how you're handling this. Under similar circumstances many people temporarily lose their mind, freak out, etc. So I wanted to start by saying that so far, you've been incredibly clear-headed and reasonable, and that will work GREATLY to your advantage. 

Next, I would ask if you've read our article about the Seven Step to End an Affair. If you have not, I'm going to assume you'll click the link now and at least browse through it to be able to talk about it intelligently. 

Before we even begin going any further, one primary thing you will need to decide is "Do I want to try to save this marriage?" The answer to that question is yours and yours alone to make, and believe me when I say no one will think less of you if you consider all options and say: "No, she broke her vows and I'm morally free to divorce, so I believe that's what I'm going to do." You have every right to seek divorce with a free conscience as she was sexually unfaithful with another man even if all they did was "mess around." The vow is to forsake ALL OTHERS and that means 100% of affection and loyalty are promised to you...not to some other man! So you're free, she is not, and it's up to you to reach that conclusion. Honestly the answer to that question will determine what you do next!

If you choose to divorce..you'd find an attorney, probably pack her things and ask her to leave firmly, and file. If you choose to work on saving the marriage, and if she were to choose to work on saving it too, then those three things that were mentioned to you are the cost of returning: *1) No Contact Letter* and no contact with the OM EVER (which would probably require quitting her job), *2) Transparency* which would mean both of you would be "see through" enough to no longer hide things from each other and you'd like your spouse see the Real You. You would both share email addresses, passwords, logins, etc. and both let the other look at your personal cell phone in order to prove you are being trustworthy. Now..YOU have not acted in an untrustworthy way so she shouldn't doubt you but hey, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, right? *3) Commitment* which would mean you look at YOUR side of what contributed to this and make the effort to actually fix yourself and the marriage...and SHE looks at HER side of what she really did and actually makes the effort to fix herself and give you what you need to heal from this betrayal. If she decides she wants to return, those would be NON-NEGOTIABLE.

However, if you decide to try to save the marriage and she will have none of it and tries to continue to carry on the affair by not agreeing to those non-negotiable requirements or by just carrying on the affair right in front of your face...that's when you would do the Seven Steps in our article. Okay?

So far, it sounds like you have already done Step One: Gather Evidence. That step is to convince you that you can trust your gut feelings and that you're not just "jealous" or something. Yeah, you have audio evidence and you know for a fact, it's not just "friendship" there is more going on here. 

You also have already accomplished Step Two: Confront which would be talking to her directly and stating that you KNOW she is committing adultery and you are asking her to stop right now. Again, I believe you've done this step, don't you? If you have a doubt, you may want to go to her and say, "I'm asking you to end your affair right now." That way you're making your statement. 

Step Three: Disclose would be to tell one or maybe two people who are fairly close to her who will likely influence her that what she's doing is wrong and tell her to stop it and do the right thing! Well you mention here that her family knows: 


> She is showing some very selfish behavior, even now. She's complaining that everyone in her family is "telling her what to do," (her family knows now) and nobody seems to care about her happiness.


Thus my guess is that you've already told a few family members at least, if not all of them. 

So as you can see, you are well on your way. You've been following the steps to a degree just by nature, and you've set some decent personal boundaries (as you prove here in this quote):


> I told her that I'm not waiting around for her relationship with the other guy to lose stream or for his wife to find out and have her come back as option 2. I told her that she should feel grateful that I would participate in the recovery process (I doubt she would have given me the chance). And I told her that with new year starting on the first I want her to either get her stuff or choose me and her family.


So that's where we stand. Figure out if you want to try to save the marriage.


----------



## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Doesn’t appear that she is interested in saving the marriage and is probably preparing herself for a divorce. She is too deep into the affair to stop right now and it will take months for her to get over it, if ever. She has reverted to a childlike emotional state and nobody will be able to talk her down at this point. There’s no doubt she isn’t telling you everything, they never do.

If you don’t file for a divorce, she will. Filing sends a message that you are not going to take this laying down. Too many people are way too soft on cheaters and end up getting walked on for months on end. You are taking the right approach and nipping this in the bud. Just don’t go soft is she suddenly acts all nice and makes all kinds of promises when things go bad for her. The second she can hook back up the OM she’ll be out the door again. You will not be able to trust her as long as the OM is anywhere on her mind. Affairs never stop right away, they only go into remission.

Make sure the OM’s wife knows what’s going on and make preparations for separating asap. I found the best way to kill these affairs is to throw them at the OM and leave them high and dry to face the reality of their situation. Over 90% of all affairs die within 2 years and once they realize their affair partner is a no good cheater like them and can’t hold a candle to their spouse (80% of people that get a divorce while having an affair regret afterwards).

For now she is useless to you so you need to protect yourself and get away from her. If she starts acting nice short term it will because she needs something from you but don’t trust it. If she wants to be with the other guy, let him have her. I’m sure his wife will not be too happy and odds are he may dump your wife to fix his own marriage. 

She is going to get a lesson from the “Be careful what you wish for…” school.

This is going to be a long, drawn out process. Don’t expect anything to get resolved in the near future. Read Jar’s thread to get an ideal of what kind of future you could be facing. That’s thing is a good 6 months long and very typical of what happens.


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

Well that's the slap in the face I probably need.

Indeed today she was much nicer and more remorseful, telling me that she is "so ashamed of what she did" and feeling like she "can't face anyone." She asked about the accidental call that busted her and after describing what it was like from my end she said "I don't even know if I can live with myself" and calling herself "the worst human being." I brought her back from that edge a bit by telling her it's her actions that are the worst. But I was not overly comforting.

On the down side, she still seems on the fence about her choice. She is not here now begging for a chance to make things right but is instead at work, once again, with OM. I find it hard to imagine that she would actually keep having sex on breaks in her present condition and with the looming deadline, but anything is possible. Hope she locks the keypad on her phone first. 

Also she has not asked about conditions of her coming home like the no contact letter, transparency, quitting her job, etc.
So I really have no idea about her intentions at this point. Before she left for work she did stop in her tracks and came back to offer me a genuine hug.

At that point I gave her a schedule of who would keep the baby when in the event she decides against working on her marriage. I told her on that paper that she should get her stuff, leave the house key, and not to contact me unless it's baby related starting Saturday. And to be prepared for D papers.

So that's where I am. It seems more like 50-50 now compared to 20-80 yesterday on her coming home. However, I still think she is going to fight me on the no contact letter and the transparency things, so I guess I need a game plan. She looked at me like I was from another planet when I first mentioned the no contact letter; "you want me to do WHAT??" So I need some guidance in the event she comes home to stay Saturday and fights me on these things, like her saying "I told OM it's over that letter is pointless." Things like this, plus the more practical things like where does she sleep? And how should I be behaving? This is the carrot stick part, right? But wow, that seems unrealistically positive...almost acting as if nothing even happened, it seems.

I did tell her today, however, the choice to stay or go was hers to make, not mine. And if she decides she wants to leave I'll respect that and wish her peace.


----------



## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

You have the patience of Job. Actually, I would get her to agree to a legal separation first(get yourself a good attorney!), then she can't say you "abandoned" your family or "threw her out of her rightful home". You said she is selfish, so get ready for every dirty divorce trick in the book. If my inklings are correct, she will start telling anyone who isn't deaf about the years of "neglect, abuse," etc.-and that is what drove her into the arms of the OM. She may try to do everything to make it look like this was all your fault, that YOU are such an unreasonable, controlling a**hole, that you deserve everything that happens to you. 

Do you have any female friends? She may accuse you of having an affair first!

Oh, and try to keep a reasonable physical distance from her. She may try to goad you into an argument, start pushing and even hitting you, then if you try to push her away, she could call the police, and guess which one of you two will be dragged out of the house in handcuffs? Some women have even bashed their faces into walls to get good and bruised, and that is all the "evidence" that is needed.

And, if that doesn't work, there's the old, tried and true accusations of you molesting the baby.

Not trying to scare you, but desperate women who have slimeball attorneys have actually done these things. Take all steps, no matter how redundant they may seem, to protect yourself!


----------



## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Listen to F102, you need a VAR (voice activated recorder), and you need to carry one on you and have one in the room that you speak to her in. It has saved many men from a night at jail and a month in a hotel. Next, regarding the NC letter. If she says "I already broke it off, there's no point". Tell her "Oh, did you think that the NC letter was for you? Its not, its for me, and its non negotiable". I hope you have separated finances and closed access to your CCs. If she balks at your requirements, file quickly as she can get credits and run up your debt until you file. Do not let her ply you with sex, require that you both get checked for STDs b4 any SF.


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

Well, sounds as if she's coming back and is willing to do the NC letter, transparency, and adjusting her schedule.

I found his phone number and have traced back the start of this to around mid-September, although I'll never know exactly when the sex started I'm sure.

We will have a lot to work through. I still feel like I need some help on best course of action when she returns. Specifically what should MY behavior look like? I read the carrot/stick article, but again, that almost seems as though I'm to act as if nothing happened. And where should she sleep her first nights back? She specifically asked this and I'm wondering too.

We agreed to enter counseling this month where I'm sure many of the issues of infidelity and what led to it will arise, but how should I be behaving in the meantime. Should I be pushing for explanations about phone calls, full disclosure of sexual activity etc etc etc, or should I just try to be my previous happy self and not face these issues these first days back.

Any advice would be appreciated because I don't want to screw up the potential recovery process and work against a healed marriage.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

The conditions to start rebuilding the trust and relationship are:

No Contact- ever

Full transparency - her phone , email passwords , whereabouts etc. She should offer this information of her own accord. Should you wish this should include answering any questions you ask. I suggest you set the discussion to one session per week of two to three hours where she answers any question you ask. You do this for three weeks and then stop, let her know that a polygraph is an option at the end, in the event you think she has not disclosed all. She must know you want the whole truth so you can put it all behind you.

As for where she should sleep, in your bed , start returning to a marriage, she has an STD test no matter if she says they used a condom.

Full commitment to rebuild the marriage.

Try reading the book " surviving an affair" by Harley
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

You can go two ways on the bedroom arrangements. Either you ask for clear sexual disease testing before you do anything with her as a matter of principle - but some wouldn't show up anyway. Or you simply say if there's no real symptoms that either of you can see, you just say_ "we can't rebuild a marriage in separate beds. I expect you to be fully with me the first night you are back. After that we can work it out together."_

The other questions you need answers to is what it is that you were or weren't doing that left her open to the affair. Note that's not justifiying her affair, but something is usually lacking in the cheated on partner somehow.

You seem to be doing a great job with the recovery so far.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

From experience, I started reconnecting right of way. My thought was... My W's OM's were compitition and I needed to be better then them. I give her the things she was looking for when she went out. So sex happened right of way (make up sex is great) and believe me, I raised my game. There for, my $0.02 is let her in your bed ASAP. again thats just me. We also went out alot, we had date night everyday. I spent alot of dough going out to dinner and bar hopping.

As far as the interigation goes, I needed all of my guestions answered, and I needed the ughly details. I mean I already know the why, I needed to know the when, where and how. Bewarned it will be tough for the both of you, but after hearing your W having sex 1st hand, I imagine you can handle her answers. In fact that is a good way of approaching it... "I already heard you have sex, you my as well tell me the rest of what I NEED to know" . 

For us, at first she didn't want to talk about it. That wasn't going to work for me, so she gave in and understood why I needed to know the details. See, my imagination was eating me up if my W didn't start talking. 

I think the whole affair needs to be opened up. It should be talked about as matter of factly. Air it out and and confront the ughliness of it, confront the affair head on like it was a world event on the evening news. Get this cheating crap over with by getting all the questions answered and leave no stone unturned, your side of things, her side of things, there by being done with it, learn from it and pray that her wanting another guy never needs to be addressed again.

My feelings will always be there with regard to my W A's and I deal with them, and every once in awhile I discuss them with her, and she understands the discussion will accure and she deals with it and then we move on as quickly as my feelings come up. I have (most) the answers and I except the 1/2 truths but at least I have an idea of what realy went on, and that is most then other guys in our sich have. So good look baldmale, you are not alone.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

baldmale said:


> Should I be pushing for explanations about phone calls, full disclosure of sexual activity etc etc etc, or should I just try to be my previous happy self and not face these issues these first days back.
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated because I don't want to screw up the potential recovery process and work against a healed marriage.


I have two suggestions: 

1) Regarding the questions you will no doubt have about the phone calls, sexual activity, etc. each person is different, and yet some degree of disclosure is reasonable. If she were to completely clam up and be unwilling to even address what happened...that's not cool. My analogy is that it's like she has all the puzzle pieces, knows the picture that the puzzle paints, and it's probably not a complimentary picture so she doesn't want to look at it--but you do NOT have all the puzzle pieces because she deliberately kept them from you. You have the pieces you have and go over and over in your mind trying to make them fit together and some pieces just *are* missing. Now some folks want every piece--others get one or two more pieces, they see the gist of the picture, and they have seen enough. So I recommend asking her if you two can have an agreement that you will ask her 1 question a day and she will answer that one question thoroughly and honestly. "I don't know" doesn't count and that conversation will end after 45 minutes (so it's not the Spanish Inquisition)...or some reasonable agreement along that line that works for both of you.

2) Regarding having her in your bed/sex, I will remind you of one thing. The ONE PLACE where it is moral for her to have sexual expression is in her marriage bed...and she made the effort to do the right thing even though it's pretty hard. So I would recommend that if she wants to be in your bed, let her in the bed at least for some hugging and comforting touch until medical tests come back clean. Until the tests come back, I think it's pretty reasonable and understandable to use safe sex practices to protect your health, but that just doesn't mean you couldn't hold her, hug her, or cuddle--which, trust me, that rebuilds and is very reassuring!


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

Well, she did indeed come back, remorseful. She wrote the NC letter, and agreed to transparency. 

After delivery of the NC letter she still went to work one last time on a shift where OM would be around, but W came home saying she "wanted to punch him," as he never looked twice at her and was "flirting and talking" with all the other women at work. That she understood he was doing what she requested in the NC letter, but felt like he was just throwing it in her face by hitting on other women at work. She said "I really was just a piece of meat to him, even thought I wanted to believe it was more." She actually thanked me for making her write the NC letter because even though she had told him it was over, he treated her differently when she spelled it out in the NC letter; a side of him she hadn't seen before. 

The weekend seemed great. I mean I tried to be the guy she fell in love with a bit harder, and w/o OM in the picture I could actually "see" my W for the first time in months.

However, a day hasn't passed that I haven't thought about what I heard on the phone that night, and I know it's going to take time and effort to get to a better place. I downloaded "His Needs, Her Needs" to my Kindle and we started reading it together over the weekend. Next step, find a good MC in the area.

My advice for others in the early stages after such a discovery:

1) Stay as calm as possible.
2) Draw a line for them to move out if that's their choice (and stick to your demand). This for me was the key. At first my W said she "just needed some time" to figure out if her M was really what she wanted. The reality was she wanted to string both of us along for a while; to continue her cake eating lifestyle. Drawing that line made me appear strong and gave her a chance to respect me.
3) Expose (although in my case she exposed to her family) to at least a few family members and friends.
4) Reassure your spouse that their M can once again be the safe loving place that they married into (though it will require lots of work).

So many members said "most affairs don't end easily or quickly so be prepared for that," that this is now my own hang up. Is my wife the exception? Or am I being tricked and the A has just gone more underground? I will be vigilant about checking up on her calls, texts, etc.. but of course where there is a will there's way. I guess I just need to be on guard and communicate with W to keep moving forward.


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

Also, can someone please recommend for me, the loyal spouse, their favorite books on _how to forgive_ and _surviving an affair_.

This site and its valuable member advice has potentially saved my family. Without it I don't think I would have had the tools to effectively deal with the horror of my cheating wife. Thank you.


----------



## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Glad it seems to be working out. I'm particularly happy that she saw what a jerk he was!


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

Its been 3 weeks since DDay and she has been home since New Year's Eve. In that time we have been communicating better and working on aspects of our marriage to restore closeness and intimacy.

We have been reading both His Needs, Her Needs and Not Just Friends together. We are in the process of finding a good MC. 

The OM no longer works at the same place as my W (I've verified this by going in repeatedly to check). I believe this to be true. In addition, I also believe that there has been no contact with OM. I think it is over.

I haven't really asked about details of the affair (up until last night) for 2 reasons: 1) I was afraid my reactions might amount to love busting behavior and I thought discussing such details in front of a MC might help guide us down a healthy path, and 2) I wasn't sure I was ready to hear the gruesome facts of the affair yet.

Last night we were reading Not Just Friends (the chapter about the clues the the BS may or may not have noticed during the affair). Many of the things in there were, in fact, noticed in my own experience. After the chapter I asked "How long were you involved beyond a normal friendship with OM, and when did it switch over to a PA?" She immediately went back to a script "I told you one month."

Me: "I saw phone and text records from the start of September."

Her: "We were becoming friends in that time."

Me: "That was already over the line. You hid all this contact from me. So again, when?"

Her: "I thought you said you wanted to talk about this in front of a MC?"

Me: "I want to know these answers from you honestly, now. I need to hear some of these things so I can start to heal. My imagination is eating at me. Plus I want to get back to being honest with each other. If you can honestly speak about what happened, then I'm confident we can be open and honest about things in future. I'm trying to build and heal our marriage, not ruin your night" (as she accused me of doing).

Her: A sample of some other responses..."I guess I'm not ready to talk about it....If you already know from phone records then there's nothing for me to say....No matter what I say, you won't believe me anyway....I have my own issues that make it hard for me to talk about this stuff, maybe after some IC I can get there...etc etc..."

I didn't yell and remained calm throughout the evening. I explained where I was coming from and in the end simply said "Thank you for listening and for at least trying to talk about it with me." However, I'm feeling stuck now, and even like we've taken a step backwards instead of forward. It would have been so much easier and a step in the right direction if she could have just answered my questions honestly. I haven't been pressuring her for answers at all. I've required very little of her.I've been making myself and home a place she feels safe in.

This morning I feel angry that she's not doing her share of the work, her share of the honesty, her sharing in the hurt in order for us to heal. I'm unsure about how to act or what to say from here. It appears like we're just stuck until MC. Argh!


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

Ya DO NOT stay with her just for your daughter because I garauntee that it will hurt her the most in the future cause if you are so sick to the point that you cant look at her say a year later. Then obviously you can't be with her. You should just really acually sit and think of if you LOVE her and because of that love for her you are going to stay. I think that staying in things for kids is destruction in slow motion, I am truely sorry for what you are going threw right now. It seems to be more and more commen these days..... Just hang in there and focus on that baby girl right now take some time away from your wife dont just jump back into it right away cause thats I THINK that when people think it was so easily forgivin and do it again.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You threw a curve ball at her. Remember ask the question and give the time frame in which you want the answer.

What sucks is you didn't ask "you was on top" or any thing....... wait I have an idea....... ask her a extremly uncomfortable question, then ask her an easy one like how long or when did this or that start.

Do you get what I mean?


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

baldmale said:


> ...I'm feeling stuck now, and even like we've taken a step backwards instead of forward. It would have been so much easier and a step in the right direction if she could have just answered my questions honestly. I haven't been pressuring her for answers at all. I've required very little of her. I've been making myself and home a place she feels safe in.
> 
> This morning I feel angry that she's not doing her share of the work, her share of the honesty, her sharing in the hurt in order for us to heal. I'm unsure about how to act or what to say ...


Why don't you tell her this...out loud? I pretty much says it right out, doesn't it? She was more than willing to to hurt YOU in order to make herself feel better, but she won't endure some discomfort in order to make YOU feel better--and that makes you feel like you're not worth much to her. 

THEN make a request that you do have some questions but you realize that if you were in her shoes, you would feel like every question was the Spanish Inquisition! Thus, you'd like to see if she'd be willing to answer ONE question a day, fully and honestly, and that you two agree that discussing that ONE question will only last (30 min. or one hour). Ask if she'd be willing to do that for 30 days (or whatever seems right to you) and then you'll stop asking questions about it. 

Now, you two can agree to whatever you like. Maybe you'd prefer two questions a day or 45 min. or ask for 2 weeks and then check to see if you need 2 more... Work together to find what works for her and works for you, make sure it's clear what you're both agreeing to, and then stick to it! That way you can find out some of what you need to know, and she won't feel interrogated.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

AC, thanks that will help me, I'm running out of lines to convinence her to tell me more.

She's been great with all the issues, but there is one that ripps her up, I mean she just does a shiever, then a jerk, followed by a heads down.

My good friend, out of 20 guys, her biggest wall is him, I have a feeling that out of all the 1/2 truths about the rest of her adventures, his is only scimming the surface.


----------



## MayfairJaz (Jan 17, 2011)

Hi Baldmale, 
I have to ask if you want to re-build this marriage you have. I think that the advice above is harsh and fuelled with bitterness which is totally understandable. 

It's very early days for both of you right now and as Juan says 80% regret taking the divorce route because of an affair. PLS don't rush it I know that you are in real turmoil and pain at the moment. Can Talking About The Affair Help? | Surviving The Affair 

Do read this post I have just made - It so fits your situation and I am a firm believer in trying to fix the relationship... Especially with such a young child involved.


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

Hello all, I'm back at about 4 weeks from D-Day. Firstly, I want to thank everyone for their experienced guidance, expertise, and concern up to this point.

My wife is still home (since the Jan 1 deadline I had set), but in all honesty I think I have less faith now that this marriage is worth saving than I did the day she returned. 

I think she is honoring the NC agreement, and we are planning for her to leave her job shortly (end of Feb, budget allowing); OM does not work there anymore. However, the hours are too conflicting between my job and hers, and I think this is really where our trouble began. No marriage can be successful when the couple sees each other only on weekends. 

So why am I less confident now? Her efforts at doing her part in the work have been very minimal. She does call/text more often during the day which helps alleviate my concerns about her whereabouts...but really this is about all she has done. I've read posts on here where people have had their DS return and be willing to do "whatever it takes" to help their LS heal, recover, and begin to trust again. Maybe that's what I was hoping for and/or expecting. When I asked her what she has done to help me, her response was "I'm here." 

I picked up Not _Just friends_ and His Needs, Her Needs for us to read together days after she returned. Her enthusiasm for reading with me has dwindled over the weeks; we haven't picked either up for a week now. In conversation, I have done most of the talking. I have been the one to offer hugs, back-rubs, notes, date-nights (all of which she accepts). But why isn't she doing everything possible to "win me back?" Or even some things that show true concern for an ease to my suffering?

She has said "sorry," but I told her that only helped _a little_, and only the first time. I need actions! Concrete proof that she is willing to work her butt off to repair this marriage. She asked "What do you want me to do? What do you need?" I explained that I can't tell her exactly what she should be doing to help me - heck I'm putting my efforts into doing things for her. Does she expect me to do both sides of the work here? I suggested just do the things she was doing to attract the OM or things she did when we first met. Normal things that people do when putting their best foot forward to build closeness. Frustrated, she said "How about I just get home from work and rip my clothes off and give you sex?" And guess what, not even that sounds good at this point.

How is it fair that I'm the LS, yet I'm the one doing nearly all the work now? She cheats, I offer to do the work with her to save our marriage, she returns unappreciative of my offer, then proceeds to take take take while giving very little in return.

As you can see, I'm building up resentment during this time when I was so open to her stepping up her game and building good will. I needed much more kindness, reassurance, and love during these initial weeks after that horrific discovery. Doesn't she even care about me enough on a person-to-person level concerning the hurt she caused to offer _some_ comfort?

I'm feeling cold and losing hope.


----------



## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Sorry to here it baldmale. The consequences for her betrayal just weren't sufficient. It really hasn't cost her much. Just an unhappy spouse. She is hoping things will die down if she doesn't stir the pot. Not my idea of healing a marriage. Personally, at this point I would tell her not to quit her job. I would then tell her that her contrition has not impressed you and that you think you can do better with someone else regarding a lifelong commitment. Then file for divorce. She does not respect you, and love cannot live without respect. She needs to experience single motherhood. Don't worry about your daughter she will be fine. Take these steps and then see what her response is. If she doesn't TAKE THE INITIATIVE, move forward with separating. The fact is, you doing all the work has only made her respect you less. Good luck.


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

I agree with you that this all has been a bit too easy for my wife. If you read some of my earlier posts I was even voicing my concerns then that following Plan A almost creates an environment where nothing seemed to have happened or even a better place than before D-Day. I was wondering even then if this would create the exact situation I'm dealing with now.

I get the idea that I need to fulfill her needs even better than before...but why isn't she grasping the idea of this being a joint effort? Is it just a matter of her "catching up" at some point as I keep making deposits in her love bank? Had she fallen out of love with me during the affair to such an extreme that she can't just jump back into the marriage wholeheartedly? 

I need her to jump start her efforts, but do you think filing for divorce or other "threat" tactics are the only/best way to get her going?


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm still getting over that you turned down sex. For me that is part of the package....I mean the glue that helps hold the marraige together. I can see that she is not reconnecting and I agree with IFTD. I just think some sex would help both of you.

Heres some things I have used to reconnect;
Mix up the kissing- small peck in the evening, then a peck with a pause then follow up with a longer one, the next day just plant a long drawn out one and walk a way.

Huggs get real hot and rub her and kiss her neck like you want to make love then walk away. I call it the big tease.

Tell her hot she looks, always ound like her phone calls just brightened up your day, Ansewering the phone like"oh its you" is bad.

I quess its a balancing act, your last post sounded smothering, my point is be more teasing and cheerful. there is something that turns your wife on once you find that, work it.

I may be wrong and I may have missed something, but the thing you are doing know it seams the both of you are struggleing with, so its always worth tring something different.


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

For the record, her "offer" to come home and rip her clothes off was not said in seriousness, it was her asking what exactly I want her to be doing these days to heal/re-connect. 

Thanks for the tips. I guess it comes down to getting her on board one way or another; threats or continued affection.

My attempts so far aren't getting the results I need, and I'm beginning to feel resentful about expressing my love to my wife.


----------



## SurprisedinME (Jan 7, 2011)

You are doing SO well! Don't give up. It's frustrating, for sure. But look at how far you have come in such a short time!

My advice is to do what she asked of you - she said, _what do you need from me_? So what is it you need? Do you want more affection, a date night, a weekend away? A phone call midday? What is it?

In my situation, I took the time to look at this and was very specific. I needed a weekly date night, total honesty, the ability to ask any detail about the A any time. I needed daily check in calls, sitting with me while we watched TV, a date set for a weekend away. I needed actions, but actions are specific to each person. Basically, I want the H I'd had years before...but to get that I knew i needed to ask for those things that made me feel special. I needed to be the first person he greeted when he walked in a room or home from work.

I wrote it all down, shared it with him. And honestly, he has become the man I married. Of course there is still times of doubt and hurt and confusion but that is on my end. He stepped up to the plate, but I truly believe that's because I asked him to. Not once have I seen him falter. Early times, still but it's working.


----------



## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

baldmale said:


> Hello all, I'm back at about 4 weeks from D-Day. Firstly, I want to thank everyone for their experienced guidance, expertise, and concern up to this point.
> 
> My wife is still home (since the Jan 1 deadline I had set), but in all honesty I think I have less faith now that this marriage is worth saving than I did the day she returned.
> 
> ...


I guess I look at this from the cheater perspective.

After my affair my wife was in your position. Hurt, wanting things to go back to normal but she also could not tell me what she needed to make things right, or at least comfortable, for her.

I tried everything to rebuild trust and show her love, but without her telling me what she "needed" eventually it came to a point where I had to say that I had done as much as I could. It was up to her at that point to either accept my efforts or decide it wasn't going to work.

I think it was a wake up call for her. I am still doing all those things and she accepts them as filling her needs. Do any of us get all our needs met? No, so you have to accept what you can.

in your case, you ultimately have to decide. I've seen posts here that begin "My wife had an affair x years ago and I'm still not happy..." You can hold out for the peak of happiness and not get there (and meanwhile your wife is also in an unhappy marriage), or you can figure out it's time to accept or go.


----------



## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

baldmale said:


> How is it fair that I'm the LS, yet I'm the one doing nearly all the work now? She cheats, I offer to do the work with her to save our marriage, she returns unappreciative of my offer, then proceeds to take take take while giving very little in return.


This is the problem, YOU are doing all the work so she is not motivated to do anything. You are rewarding her with back rubs and whatnot for "being there"? She needs to win you back and show she is worth keeping, not the other way around. SHe screwed up so she needs to make amends.

I'm not a big fan of the Plan A approach since it failed for me and I just don't see it working. I got results from using tough love and if you read enough stories you'll see patterns. For instance, when a LS finds out about an A and kicks them to the curb then files for a D, 99% of the time the WS comes crawling back and their hands and knees begging for a second chance. 

She obviously isn't concerned that you are going to leave and just doesn't care enough to do anything than the bare minimum. When they really want to work on the M it will be very apparent and they will go above and beyond what you ask for. 

I say stop being nice and pull away. No more rewarding bad behavior and really think about if you really want to be with someone who did this to you.


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

Well over the past days we have been communicating better and the giant roller coaster seems to have been replaced by more of a kiddie ride.

I'm at the point now where I want some more details about what happened and what/how she was feeling/thinking during that time.

I've read that a dry time line along with a page of feelings is one approach. Of course an honest talk would be another. I think she has great difficulty in being completely honest about what happened when we talk face to face about these details though. She is scared. She is disgusted and mad at herself.

I don't really want to know the super graphic stuff ("he was on top, i did reverse cowgirl until he blew a load on my face"), just more basic stuff like "we had sex x number of times starting ___."

Any suggestions on how to help her to "get it all out?" I want desperately to avoid the trickle truth of bits at a time so that I can put that chapter to rest.


----------



## Simon Phoenix (Aug 9, 2010)

ArmyofJuan is correct on this. I know from personal experience that all you will be is more resentful by continuing to cater to her every wish and whim without a payoff. What was her punishment for stepping out on you; more roses, candy, and affection? A DS will take that deal all day long.

Make her EARN your trust back, my man...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

baldmale,
this is what worked for me;
1.reassure her that you will not leave
2. let her know the hurt is already there and further detail will help me put this to rest
3. your imagination is running wild and things need to be set straight
4. let her know that you understand her difficulty and that it is part of the healing and consequences that you both bear.
5. you want to learn from it, what turned her on what the OM did that you can do but better.
6. (big one here) promise her that the information she tells you will not be held against her in any way.
7. this will help in healing you
8. its interesting how the machanics of it all work for her
9. promise no judgment on your part don't call her out
10. smile alot, give her the impression that it is all a matter a fact 
11. it will not change your perseption of her


For me it is how you approach her and giving her a comfort leavel, If she can beleive that all this is what best friend would do...tell each other everything, then she may open up.

Giver her some time, let her know (warn her) that this evening after work you want to discuss X,Y,& Z

What ever you do don't tell her things like"come on really" except what she is telling you and move on to the next question. There will be alot of 1/2 truths and expect that don't push it. She is fragile so go with her flow. The last thing you want is her regretting telling you these things, you will need to bring some more things up later on. It took me weeks to get alot out of her. Its been months and I finaly got the big picture. After a while you will have everthing that you want and it will nolonger be an issue. the only issue you will have is that it just happened period.


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

Well, I finally got some more of the details over the weekend, and I guess that's helpful, but......

Why can't WW be honest from this point forward and not trickle out bits of the truth??? I created a safe way to hear her out. I asked about how it started, when, how many times they had sex, etc in a calm manner. I just listened and nodded. I asked follow up questions. She answered. I thanked her afterward for talking with me honestly.

Then the next morning the "truth" about sexual encounters just didn't sit well with me. She said that while they were involved for 4 months, that they had had sex only twice, and with condoms. And that it might have been more but condoms weren't always handy.

After letting this settle for the night, "twice" just seemed like the safe answer to me, since "once" would be an obvious lie. I told her that I actually wish she had told me 30 times...at least then I could believe that was the truth. As it was "twice" just kind of keeps me stuck because it is potentially a lie. She said "would you rather me just tell you 5 or 6 times?" and "what does it matter what I say if you won't believe me anyway?"

I said "I only want the truth." She said "Fine, it was 5 or 6 times." I said "really?" She said "If that's what you want to hear then yes."

So it goes on like this crap for way too long. Her justifying lying to me because "I won't believe her anyway."

I really do think after the convo that it really was 5 or 6 times. But that means the night before she lied again to me straight to my face saying "twice." I was totally calm that night. I made no judgmental statements...it would have been sooooo easy to just be honest that night.

Why do WSs act like this and continue to make things harder when really us BSs are giving them opportunities to build bits of trust and safety back into the relationship. Instead they lie...shake our beliefs, doubt their commitment, and re-open wounds over and over by trickling out the "truth."


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> ... After letting this settle for the night, "twice" just seemed like the safe answer to me, since "once" would be an obvious lie. I told her that I actually wish she had told me 30 times...at least then I could believe that was the truth. As it was "twice" just kind of keeps me stuck because it is potentially a lie. She said "would you rather me just tell you 5 or 6 times?" and "what does it matter what I say if you won't believe me anyway?"
> 
> I said "I only want the truth." She said "Fine, it was 5 or 6 times." I said "really?" She said "If that's what you want to hear then yes."


So I have a good question for ya that may clear this up. How many times have you and your wife had sex in the past 6 months? I want an exact number now...no estimating or guessing otherwise you are lying to me. 

Nothing personal but I think that's a little how your wife feels. There's 'never' which means no contact whatsoever...there's 'once' which would be like a one-night-stand mistake kind of thing...there's 'twice' which would mean it was very infrequent but not just a drunken one-night-stand...there's 'a lot' or 'frequently'. But chances are good that she didn't "count" every single time (oh let's see that's the fifth time we made love this week) just like you haven't counted the number of times you two made love in the past six months. Now...if you thought back on it you might be able to come up with a reasonably close number, but she could always say, "Hey wait remember that night we did XYZ?" and you had forgotten to count that one. Does that mean you lied? Where you purposefully trying to mislead her or hiding that encounter from her? Nope. 

Furthermore, if she is recovering at all, she is trying to put the OM, any connection to him, and any memories or thoughts or feelings for him OUT OF HER MIND. So she is purposefully trying to forget those things and you are asking her to remember them! And yeah, I do get the concept that she had all the pieces to the puzzle and could see the whole picture, whereas you have had pieces withheld from you and are trying very hard to see what the picture was! I get that, I do! Yet, just as you want her to understand YOUR side...I would hope that you might care to understand HER side. In order to move forward, she has to look at the present and the future...not at the past. So to her 2 times and 5 times probably seems the same--if it was over the course of a year or six months, that's infrequent and yet not an accident or unplanned. 



> So it goes on like this crap for way too long. Her justifying lying to me because "I won't believe her anyway."
> 
> I really do think after the convo that it really was 5 or 6 times. But that means the night before she lied again to me straight to my face saying "twice." ...


So even if she does sit and recall every single time they had sex, and the real, actual, truthful number is two...you won't believe her! You believe it was five times, no matter what she says unless she can give you documentation that the three other times you suspect were NOT sex. Let me ask you this...can you prove you have NOT made love to your wife twice a day this week? Because I think you did and no matter what you SAY I won't believe you. I think it's 14 times this week. Period. Can you prove me wrong? 

This is the position you've put her in. 

Thus at some point she says, "Believe whatever number you like, I don't care. You have it in your mind that I am thus and such kind of person and I'm tired of trying to prove to you I did or did not do whatever when you've proven to me that what you believe is what you believe. Fine. Believe it." This isn't trickle truth, baldmale. It's resignation to badgering. 

This is my own personal opinion. Rather than demanding to know if it was 2 times or 3 or 4 or 5...part of her is hoping you would say "Look I view you as someone who would not turn into a sex fiend and lose all morality. You say 2, I suspect more like 5, but we can agree that it wasn't all that frequent and very often given the opportunity you avoided it. But that a few times the temptation was too strong and you gave in." 



> Why do WSs act like this and continue to make things harder when really us BSs are giving them opportunities to build bits of trust and safety back into the relationship. Instead they lie...shake our beliefs, doubt their commitment, and re-open wounds over and over by trickling out the "truth."


Can you PROVE it was 5 or 6 times? I mean flat out, factually prove it with evidence for a court of law? Because if you can not, then what you've really done is set your wife into a no-win position and then when she doesn't win, you wonder why she doesn't develop feeling of intense love for you. Well...do you love people who set you up to fail? I know I don't! 

What if you had embezzled from your company over the course of six months--and your wife suspected you did it once every month (a total of six times) but you got caught, then went to the owner and did the right thing and admitted that you had stolen $6000. You were humiliated, fired, felt like a heel...and your wife kept grinding you about whether it was 2 times at $3000 each or 6 times at $1000 each. In a way, nothing personal, but WHO CARES!!! How about noticing that you did the right thing? How about noticing that you repaid them? How about saying something supportive or encouraging like, "Honey it was a mistake. Okay a fairly big one but everyone makes mistakes. You've learned a good lesson from this and even the two of us have grown closer. It will be okay." Do you want her to continue to scrutinize your every move over those six months when you were not acting like yourself, or at some point would you want her to remember who you ARE at your core and treat you like that guy? 

Soooo... next time you two have a talk like this, and she says something like "twice" and you suspect it was possibly more, be a little GRACIOUS and say "So what you're saying is a few times but it was not very frequent?" Give her the opportunity to save some dignity and also to build some trust in YOU that you won't tear her down and rub her nose in it. I realize you think she needs to build trust, but you do as well, and right now the lesson she's learning is that no matter what she says, if you "think" it's otherwise, you won't give her the benefit of the doubt.


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

Normally I agree with much of the content of your posts Affaircare...but I think you're off base here. My wife hasn't been asked about hardly any details of what went on. My behavior has been far from badgering. I finally came to a point where I felt I needed more details, so I asked. While I can't prove it was more than twice, she has dropped hints over the course of the last few weeks like sexual contact was more than just once or twice. She resorted to habitual lying and self-protection as opposed to being open. She asked "what difference does the number make, it happened?" I said if it mattered to me to hear her best guess at the number then it should be important enough to her to offer it. Isn't it important to own your own actions? And she knew damn well the number was more than 2, so why spin the story with 2 specific cases and call it an honest and open conversation? 

What has she learned if I just let it lie? Hide, provide half-truths, what he doesn't know won't him....etc. It's that habitual behavior that kept the affair going. No thanks.


----------



## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I agree with you baldguy. That answer would be once, twice or if it has been many times, the answer should be something like two or three times a week. If it was frequent, nobody would expect an exact number.

Saying twice when it was frequent is a lie.


----------



## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

AC,

You are missing the point big time here. No one is asking for an exact number. There is just no other way of asking the question. BaldMale and I would of been perfectly fine with an answer such as...

"I'm not quite sure, it was a while ago. Maybe once or twice a months. It varied."


----------



## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

Im not going to tell you what to do. But i am going to remove sympathy from this post and steer you down the road to clear thinking. After all, right now that is where your head needs to be, regardless of the outcome? agreed?

Questions to ask yourself.

1. Do you have the foundation that makes this worth saving, or is this a bad stock that you are afraid of losing your butt on?

2. Can you accept that the relationship has changed forever? No matter what people tell you, you will not be able to go back to "where you were" after all... where you were was with a cheating wife, and you dont want that right? additionally, "where you were" was complete faith, you ABSOLUTELY knew that she would NEVER do this. Now you know that she is capable.

3. Is she willing to do everything possible, i mean walk through fire, to save your marriage? You might be, but if she is not opening up herself to the threat of being hurt, like you were, then she is saying " im willing to hurt you, but when it comes to my security, no way buddy." She should be dropping everything in her life right now to make things right, just like you would. Period.

Look brother, I see this too much... Guys feel the loss because of an affair, and go into begging mode. Acting like you were the one who screwed up.. meanwhile, she is socking away money for the impending court case and making plans to bail out.

Im called twotimeloser for a reason. I have been cheated on twice by two wives. one ended in divorce, one saved. now im married for 10 years, and it worked out fine... The difference was the answers to the questions I just typed out. What are your answers?


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> Normally I agree with much of the content of your posts Affaircare...but I think you're off base here. My wife hasn't been asked about hardly any details of what went on. My behavior has been far from badgering. I finally came to a point where I felt I needed more details, so I asked. While I can't prove it was more than twice, she has dropped hints over the course of the last few weeks like sexual contact was more than just once or twice. *She resorted to habitual lying and self-protection as opposed to being open. She asked "what difference does the number make, it happened?"* I said if it mattered to me to hear her best guess at the number then it should be important enough to her to offer it. Isn't it important to own your own actions? And *she knew damn well the number was more than 2, so why spin the story* with 2 specific cases and call it an honest and open conversation?
> 
> What has she learned if I just let it lie?* Hide, provide half-truths, what he doesn't know won't him....etc. It's that habitual behavior that kept the affair going.* No thanks.


Do you see the items I have bolded and underlined up above? Unless you have specific evidence to the contrary, every single one of those statements is a Disrespect Judgment...namely YOU assigned a role of lying and deceit to her with no confirming information or reason to assign that role other than "hints" and your judgement. I have linked to Dr. Harley's description of what a disrespectful judgement is so that you can read up on it and learn from it (I hope). 

My direct advice to you would be to print what I wrote--in any format you desire (screenshot, copy/paste...whatever works for you), hand it to your wife, and ask her yourself if that is what she feels like. If that is indeed what she feels like, I would encourage you to LISTEN because she is giving you a direct clue about what killed the marriage in the first place. 

I do realize that no one likes to discover the action they are doing that is killing their marriage and harming their spouse. It's SOOOOO much easier to blame the disloyal and claim he or she is "a liar." In this instance I do completely understand what you are saying, namely that you have not badgered her and she was not forthcoming. You would like her to feel comfortable being completely open and forthcoming with you. So teach her she can do it by something like when she says, "Twice" you say "Dear, just based on a few things you've said before I suspect it may be more than two times, but could we say this? It was not a one-time occurrence but it was not frequently? Did you resist sometimes? Did you give in more often than you wanted to?" Those kinds of statements give her the opportunity to save some dignity AND sound like you are thinking of her withe some "benefit of the doubt" whereas your method says "I think of you as a lying adulterer and you'll always be a liar. Even if I don't have evidence, I won't believe you." 

And finally, before you get utterly upset, here's a weird thing to think about. What if she said 4 times? It's less than you "suspect" but you can't prove more or less. How will you ever really *KNOW* for a certainty? My point? You won't. You will never be able to know absolutely, irrevocably, without any shadow of doubt--and you know why? Because you were not there. So if she tells you the truth, you won't know for sure. And if she lies, you won't know for sure. I bring this up because if she is showing you her phone NOW, and you can see her email and PC history NOW, and she shares her schedule and whereabouts NOW...she is being open NOW and honest NOW. The past will never, ever, EVER be exactly "proven" no matter what you do. So are you going to ignore and damage the behavior she's doing now in pursuit of something you and she will never, ever really be able to "prove"??? Just give that a thought, okay?


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

Hello all,

I'm back with a couple of lingering questions/thoughts...

First, as an update, we are still together and doing pretty well. She quit her night job and is back in a program that will lead to her career of choice. She is a great stay at home mom, and our marriage is much better with all the extra time we have for each other. I truly believe that the number one reason for her affair was the lack of time we spent with each other because of conflicting work schedules. And her poor boundaries. So a piece of advice: don't work shifts where you never see each other. The distance will grow and grow, and that's generally a necessary first step to open the door to infidelity. Your marriage can survive being financially strapped, but not physical/emotional distance.

Anyway, two things still lingering. 1) I never exposed to OMW and I still feel like she deserves to know what happened. I only have OM name and cell number (which is registered to an east coast address). No facebook. And I doubt my wife knows where OM or OMW lives. Should I still be worried about exposing to OMW? Or should I just let this go? As a side note, I think OM was in the military a few years ago, would this be a potential way of finding out an address?

And 2) I'm struggling a bit these days because a year ago now was when the affair was going on. I find myself going back and replaying the lies and deceit because this was the season that it was going on. I haven't talked about this with my wife out of fear of going backwards in our recovery. Should I be expressing these feeling to my wife? Is there a point? Or should I just soldier on and try to power through the time from now until the anniversary of D-Day?


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I'm glad your doing better. I do think you need to still tell OMW , she deserves to know. He is likely doing this with other women and bringing home who knows what diseases.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

baldmale said:


> So a piece of advice: don't work shifts where you never see each other. The distance will grow and grow, and that's generally a necessary first step to open the door to infidelity. Your marriage can survive being financially strapped, but not physical/emotional distance.
> 
> Anyway, two things still lingering. 1) I never exposed to OMW and I still feel like she deserves to know what happened. I only have OM name and cell number (which is registered to an east coast address). No facebook. And I doubt my wife knows where OM or OMW lives. Should I still be worried about exposing to OMW? Or should I just let this go? As a side note, I think OM was in the military a few years ago, would this be a potential way of finding out an address?
> 
> And 2) I'm struggling a bit these days because a year ago now was when the affair was going on. I find myself going back and replaying the lies and deceit because this was the season that it was going on. I haven't talked about this with my wife out of fear of going backwards in our recovery. Should I be expressing these feeling to my wife? Is there a point? Or should I just soldier on and try to power through the time from now until the anniversary of D-Day?



read my story linked in my signature, you'll see have a LOT of similarities including the shift work and waiting to expose to OMW. It'll also give you a glimpse of what stages you went thru and are going thru and will go thru.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

baldmale said:


> Anyway, two things still lingering. 1) I never exposed to OMW and I still feel like she deserves to know what happened. I only have OM name and cell number (which is registered to an east coast address). No facebook. And I doubt my wife knows where OM or OMW lives. Should I still be worried about exposing to OMW? Or should I just let this go? As a side note, I think OM was in the military a few years ago, would this be a potential way of finding out an address?
> 
> And 2) I'm struggling a bit these days because a year ago now was when the affair was going on. I find myself going back and replaying the lies and deceit because this was the season that it was going on. I haven't talked about this with my wife out of fear of going backwards in our recovery. Should I be expressing these feeling to my wife? Is there a point? Or should I just soldier on and try to power through the time from now until the anniversary of D-Day?


and to answer your questions-


1) YES find OMW and tell her, be sure to have your proof ready as OM likely will spin a lie that your wife is crazy.

2) YES express your feelings with your wife, it's likely she is also thinking of the affair since it's close to a year. Never hold back and always be open. I know it's hard as you feel like you are dredging it up again and don't want to appear like you want to punish her all over again. Preface it by stating how good you feel things are going and how much you appreciate that she did the heavy lifting but wish to convey how you have been feeling lately.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

baldmale said:


> And 2) I'm struggling a bit these days because a year ago now was when the affair was going on. I find myself going back and replaying the lies and deceit because this was the season that it was going on. I haven't talked about this with my wife out of fear of going backwards in our recovery. Should I be expressing these feeling to my wife? Is there a point? Or should I just soldier on and try to power through the time from now until the anniversary of D-Day?


Yes, you need to discuss this with her so you can begin to heal. You're going on a year and you haven't been able to discuss this with her? If she is truly remorseful, she should be able to discuss the affair to help you heal. If she doesn't want to discuss it, then she's trying to sweep this under the rug. Refer to this guide. She should be totally in the left column.


----------



## nice_cheryl (Oct 15, 2011)

It's a long process. Take your time.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

To truly HEAL your marriage, not only does your Wife need to be transparently honest, but you do as well. That's the part that can be a little scary--because not only does she need to be an open book that you can read, but you need to be an open books for her as well! The truth of the matter is that you are hurting and you are remembering the old pain. I would recommend sharing that with her and believing the best: asking her to respond with some reassurance. 

Then in an effort to not "hold it over her head forever" see if there isn't something you two can do together to "RECLAIM" this time of year/season. For example, take a second honeymoon...renew your vows very privately (just you two and a judge)...make this time of year YOUR time and also sort of claim your woman  But whatever you two decide to do, do it together and do it as a mutual agreement.

Regarding exposing to the OMW...I would have encouraged you to do that last year, but now that a year has gone by I suspect that would be re-opening a can of worms that's been closed. Last year you made the decision to not tell the OMW and I say don't contact anything from that past now.


----------



## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Did the both of you ever get tested for STD's?


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

zombie thread- cue Dex


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> zombie thread- *cue Dex*


Yes and just like his Showtime namesake, he knows where the bodies are buried. :rofl:


----------



## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

baldmale said:


> If not for the baby, I would be filing for divorce today. Now I guess I have to decide if staying with a cheating spouse to raise our daughter together is something I can do, or not.


Only if you are willing to be married to an untrustworthy huss.

Ask yourself this, can you picture ever being with her and the thought of her screwing another guy not pop into your mind, and you looking at her with disgust?




> Right now I feel disgust and anger. I can't imagine a time when seeing her naked will even be attractive to me again. She just seems gross to me now.
> 
> What have I done right/wrong these first couple of days after catching her? What should I be doing now?


Nobody can really tell you what you did right or wrong, only what we think you should do based on what we would do ourselves.

IMO, child or not, I'd divorce her. Why? Because you'll never trust her again and living with the thought of her riding another man's member won't ever go away. It will haunt you from here on out.

Kids are not a reason to remain miserable in a marriage. I have 2 kids and they were young when I decided to divorce. They turned out fine. My oldest was initially sad for about the first month, but he got over it and saw that his dad was much happier away from his mother.

So thats just my opinion. You have to ask yourself, can you handle looking at her face from here on out and not thinking to yourself, "b**ch!" ? If the answer is yes, then you do what you think is best.

If the answer is no, you need to consider that a better life is out there for you.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

bahahahahahahahahahahaha


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:bounce::bounce:
:moon::moon::moon::moon::moon:


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> bahahahahahahahahahahaha
> 
> 
> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
> ...


Don't Bogart the Jesus juice AR, pass it over to me.:lol:


----------



## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

morituri said:


> Don't Bogart the Jesus juice AR, pass it over to me.:lol:


What happend to this guy, no update. Did she dumped him or did he dumped her.
Ladies without respect to their husbands are dumb assh*le


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

16 months later and still married. 

Update: I finally tracked down the OMW and told her on the phone tonight about the affair between her husband and my wife. I've always thought she deserved to know, I just couldn't find her. This week, I did. And as gently as I could told her what I know.

Case closed. 

Happy ending (so far).


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Does your wife know you found and told the OMW or are you waiting to see if she is going to find out through the OM?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

I told my wife I found OMW. OM is not in contact with her.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

baldmale said:


> 16 months later and still married.
> 
> Update: I finally tracked down the OMW and told her on the phone tonight about the affair between her husband and my wife. *I've always thought she deserved to know*, I just couldn't find her. This week, I did. And as gently as I could told her what I know.
> 
> ...


:smthumbup:

Honesty is the best policy, now his lies will start being uncovered.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

baldmale said:


> I told my wife I found OMW. OM is not in contact with her.


And what has her reaction been?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

You did good baldie. The OMW needs to know who she is married to so that she has the choice to make an informed decision as to whether D or R. Again good job.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Way to go B. You did the right thing. Now that poor woman has a choice, something she did not have before.

Did your wife ever show any true remorse or contrition or did she sweep it all under the rug?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Please share


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

If I were you I'd go stay with Grandma too and get some comfort and lick my wounds, before deciding on any course of action. Taking action gives someone else something to ping off of. What you might want to do is to lay low and take care of yourself, not your relationship, and also your child, and wait to see what her response will be to her own actions and situation, without your interference. This will tell you ALL you need to know about where your relationship will go. I am 100% sure that if you ask Grandma won't mind helping. I had to invest a lot into self care when I found out my former husband was cheating and lying, like you I found out suddenly by accident (thankfully not a pocket dial) and I had a social worker for assistance, plus a lot of therapy. But it's really difficult to keep yourself pulled together, fed, adequate rest, parenting....probably being with your child is the best thing, if you don't feel up to having your child on your own, don't add to trauma by being separated from what is left right now of your nuclear family.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

WTF?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

My wife has been on board with recovery for more than a year. No contact, transparency, on working on herself and us. We have been on a good road.

The OMW cried, hung up. Then called back later to ask some questions. "How do you know this was my husband? There was another guy of the same name there." Sorry, the same outta state area code as yours is all over my phone bill from that period. Plus, I met him and knew his circumstances. "Well, how did you find out? Maybe it wasn't sex." Um, yeah, I heard them in action over the phone.

Yeah, she cried. Said it wasn't his first time cheating on her. Wasn't sure what course to pursue with him. She had previously told him another strike and she was gone. Now, if she tells him she found out she is either gonna have to follow thru or find some way to make them work. She said they were "finally in a good place" and now this news.

Yeah, it sucks. And I felt bad for being the person to deliver the news. But again, it was the right thing to do I believe. And if the situation were reversed, I'd want to know.

I only wish I could have gotten the news to her sooner, but I had nothing for so long, then a missing piece of the puzzle came into place and I contacted her ASAP. Unfortunately, it was 16 months later.

My wife said "good" she deserves to know. I think my wife has always been pissed off that this affected our marriage, but never his. Like he got a free pass. And I think she has happy to hear that his hall pass got revoked.

I wasn't emotionally invested in his position, so I didn't hold those feelings even though I understand.

I genuinely feel bad for OMW. I could hear her pain over the phone. Feel it. Know it. And don't wish that hurt on anyone. Too bad our cheating spouses didn't consider the hurt before going down that road. So selfish and short-sighted of them.


----------



## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Affaircare said:


> Do you see the items I have bolded and underlined up above? Unless you have specific evidence to the contrary, every single one of those statements is a Disrespect Judgment...namely YOU assigned a role of lying and deceit to her with no confirming information or reason to assign that role other than "hints" and your judgement. I have linked to Dr. Harley's description of what a disrespectful judgement is so that you can read up on it and learn from it (I hope).
> 
> My direct advice to you would be to print what I wrote--in any format you desire (screenshot, copy/paste...whatever works for you), hand it to your wife, and ask her yourself if that is what she feels like. If that is indeed what she feels like, I would encourage you to LISTEN because she is giving you a direct clue about what killed the marriage in the first place.
> 
> ...


HMMMM.... Pause for thought!!

Now, see here it is.. My WH.. denies any sexal activity what so ever. No matter how many times I demand or as or sweet talk or threaten or safe envorinment.. Nothing changes his answer. NO SEX.

But, all the signs were there that He did. Even when I ran it by all you guys. You all for sure thought there was sex involved. He on the other hand say it was wrong, it went to far, he is sorry. But to admit more than a EA well it just isnt going to happen. 

So this post strikes a cord with me. What if he is telling me the truth and I refuse it to be the truth.( Am I doing as you mentioned in this thread.)

I just can not beleive that there was no sex involved ever.. Its just no way in my mind for me to think otherwise. But there was NEVER not even once did he give me a ounce of tricle truth about it being PA. It all seems to line up with an EA.. EXCEPT that the things I saw I can not even start to fathom that sex did not occur ever.. 

I have tried and tried and tried to get him to admit or trickle truth or slip up or somthing that sex was involved. But NO.. not one time has it been stated otherwise all EA.. 

But there is no way I can make myself beleive it. So what do you do in this situation? Am I doing what you discribed in this post dunno.. I do understand that Ea are deep and very destructive. And it runs a course just like a PA does - sex. But still, to be that close to someone it very akward postion no married person should be in, just doesnt seem like no sex occured... 

Somtimes I wish I could go back in time to the ONE MOMENT that I could had been for sure if it did of didnt.. But I dont have no time machien around so.... NOW WHAT???



And I absouloutly REFUSE to beleive that it did not go into a PA. But I have no way of PROVING it did. Nor can I PROVE it did not..


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

I understand what you're saying. And as hurtful as it was to hear my wife over the phone with another man, AT LEAST now I knew the truth. That my suspicions were true, and that I was not crazy. However, what was heard cannot be unheard, and it would have been better to just have her admit the truth instead of me living with the cold hard truth my ears presented.

I haven't read thru your whole story, sorry. But I do think it's far less likely for a man to stop at an EA. After all, the whole point of an EA for a man is to grease the skids for sex. A woman, I think, could possibly be involved in an EA only, but it's far less likely for a man, IMO.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Thanks for sharing. 
I like the fact that your fWW took care of you and herself and fixed this. As it should be!


----------



## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

baldmale said:


> I understand what you're saying. And as hurtful as it was to hear my wife over the phone with another man, AT LEAST now I knew the truth. That my suspicions were true, and that I was not crazy. However, what was heard cannot be unheard, and it would have been better to just have her admit the truth instead of me living with the cold hard truth my ears presented.
> 
> I haven't read thru your whole story, sorry. But I do think it's far less likely for a man to stop at an EA. After all, the whole point of an EA for a man is to grease the skids for sex. A woman, I think, could possibly be involved in an EA only, but it's far less likely for a man, IMO.


Yeah I get what you are saying about the unheard.. Its a shame.

I can't undo what my eyes have seen. Wich is why I dont beleive the EA only angle..

But as you stated, and you being a man, I just think that for a man it is as you say "to grease the skids for sex" I agree.

And that brings me back to I CAN NOT beleive it was EA. I feel it was PA. But for him to admit well not even close to it.

I completly understand you not reading my story. But I did read yours and I must say congrats to you for R.

My story well is long and just plain shocking, but hey who's isnt in the mist of the Nasty A?

Good luck hope it all stays on a postive road for you and your wife :smthumbup:


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I agree. She is setting you up for another butt kicking down the road. That's why she is rugsweeping, hoping to keep you quiet and on the hook until another likely lad comes along.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Looks like you did good, congrats Sincerely. I got so pissed at you before that I wrote before reading all. Good Luck and God Bless.


----------

