# How to get over thinking the wife is cheating...



## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

So I've always had the suspicion that my wife was doing something behind my back, whether it be physical or emotional. There have been numerous reasons, I have even brought up some of these in counseling. Her first response is "no, I don't have the time or desire", but she never tries to understand where I am coming from. She still continues to do these things...

How do I get these thoughts out of my head? Especially with our issues going on it's one of the first things I go to sometimes....


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*What you so aptly describe is called your "gut instinct!"

99.99% of the time, it is going to be the absolute truth! Having said that, it would be well worth your time to execute "the 180," and start investigating your wife's cell bill , texting activity, and social media interaction!

Once that has been confirmed, you might try placing a good VAR underneath her car seat! That will probably tell you more than you'd ever expect to know!*


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

arbitrator said:


> *What you so aptly describe is called your "gut instinct!"
> 
> 99.99% of the time, it is going to be the absolute truth! Having said that, it would be well worth your time to execute "the 180," and start investigating your wife's cell bill , texting activity, and social media interaction!
> 
> Once that has been confirmed, you might try placing a good VAR underneath her car seat! That will probably tell you more than you'd ever expect to know!*


I've been looking at the cell phone bill for a while, it is hard for some numbers because she is a mobile therapist and can't have names attached to some numbers. I do need to get her new password for Facebook, it changed recently and she hasn't given me the new one.


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## smi11ie (Apr 21, 2016)

Can you get a look at her phone .... in the middle of the night or something? You might need some time. You can also run software to get deleted texts. This might be against your principles, however, there is a lot at stake.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

ZDog377 said:


> So I've always had the suspicion that my wife was doing something behind my back, whether it be physical or emotional. There have been numerous reasons, I have even brought up some of these in counseling. Her first response is "no, I don't have the time or desire", but she never tries to understand where I am coming from. She still continues to do these things...
> 
> How do I get these thoughts out of my head? Especially with our issues going on it's one of the first things I go to sometimes....


Due diligence friend, due diligence.

Stop confronting her without solid evidence. Be your normal self around her. Put her mind at ease.

In this day and age there aren't very many cheaters who can avoid being caught if the BS uses all the methods at his disposal. VAR, GPS, cell records, key loggers, phone spyware, video cameras, text recovery apps, PI's. If you're smart about it and patient enough, you'll catch her if she's cheating.


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

My co-worker at work thinks his wife is cheating. All he has is that she buys sexy underwear and stays late at work one night a week. They have one car so he drives her to work and picks her up which is not far from their house. I think it's all his head because they are both social in their group of friends/family and they do trips often.. So seriously I wouldn't think she would have time.


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

Oh and she is going thru menopause-- being tested for zero testosterone or that's what he says.. So why would he think that she's having an affair?


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## smi11ie (Apr 21, 2016)

I don't want to thread jack but it sounds like she is cheating.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Suggest a polygraph, see how she reacts.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

badmemory said:


> ZDog377 said:
> 
> 
> > So I've always had the suspicion that my wife was doing something behind my back, whether it be physical or emotional. There have been numerous reasons, I have even brought up some of these in counseling. Her first response is "no, I don't have the time or desire", but she never tries to understand where I am coming from. She still continues to do these things...
> ...


I've been trying to find some stuff that I can put on her phone and computer but can't find anything that she can't find unless she knows it is there. I asked a friend a long time ago for suggestions and she happened to see it on my Facebook messages and flipped out about it.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

ZDog377 said:


> I've been looking at the cell phone bill for a while, it is hard for some numbers because she is a mobile therapist and can't have names attached to some numbers. I do need to get her new password for Facebook, it changed recently and she hasn't given me the new one.


*Then go with the "hidden under the car seat VAR" trick then! 

It'll either totally "convict" her or fully "exonerate" her ~ with no middle ground!*


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

I agree, go with the VAR. But you'll be nervous as hell when you plant it and retrieve it. I'm using one right now to verify my "fiancee" isn't doing drugs still. I download the .mp3 files to my work computer and comb through them. Get two of them so you can keep swapping them out. 

I was able to use Dr Fone to recover the deleted texts and see it all right there. You just need a few hours with the phone and know the PIN.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

What reasons do you suspect an affair? Keep in mind that digging for proof could wreck your marriage if there is no affair. I'd divorce over a VAR and I have nothing to hide.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

GuyInColorado said:


> I agree, go with the VAR. But you'll be nervous as hell when you plant it and retrieve it. I'm using one right now to verify my "fiancee" isn't doing drugs still. I download the .mp3 files to my work computer and comb through them. Get two of them so you can keep swapping them out.
> 
> I was able to use Dr Fone to recover the deleted texts and see it all right there. You just need a few hours with the phone and know the PIN.


I'll have to check into one of those. I would just have to hide it well because her and the kids are constantly losing stuff and looking for it. 

I'll also look into Dr. Fone, is it free?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

This!

Trust is important in a marriage and I'd leave my wife if she started spying on me. 

if there is some *evidence* for an affair, that is different, but the OP doesn't seem to have given any. Is there some history, or some other reason he thinks she might be having an affair?









SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> What reasons do you suspect an affair? Keep in mind that digging for proof could wreck your marriage if there is no affair. I'd divorce over a VAR and I have nothing to hide.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> What reasons do you suspect an affair? Keep in mind that digging for proof could wreck your marriage if there is no affair. I'd divorce over a VAR and I have nothing to hide.


She doesn't want to tell me her work schedule because I travel for work and it constantly changes. She also told me she went back to work because she wanted something to do and needs her "own" money. When she wants to talk between jobs, she calls all the time. When I try and call her she acts like I'm interrupting something.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

ZDog377 said:


> I've been trying to find some stuff that I can put on her phone and computer but can't find anything that she can't find unless she knows it is there. I asked a friend a long time ago for suggestions and she happened to see it on my Facebook messages and flipped out about it.


The software and apps are designed to be well hidden. She's unlikely to find them unless she has advanced IT knowledge *and* suspects they are installed.

You just need about 30 minutes of alone time with her phone and computer to load them. Google for the top rated ones.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

ZDog377 said:


> She doesn't want to tell me her work schedule because I travel for work and it constantly changes. She also told me she went back to work because she wanted something to do and needs her "own" money. When she wants to talk between jobs, she calls all the time. When I try and call her she acts like I'm interrupting something.


Lots of women want to work so they have their own money and lots of people can't talk at work. I hated when my ex called me at work. I'm busy. She calls you when she's free and sounds like you're available for the call as well. 
If her schedule changes then it'd be hard to always keep you knowing it. 

None of these things sound like an affair.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

ZDog377 said:


> So I've always had the suspicion that my wife was doing something behind my back, whether it be physical or emotional. There have been numerous reasons, I have even brought up some of these in counseling. Her first response is "no, I don't have the time or desire", but she never tries to understand where I am coming from. She still continues to do these things...
> 
> How do I get these thoughts out of my head? Especially with our issues going on it's one of the first things I go to sometimes....


Have you told her of specific behaviors that make you think this way? Because if she continues doing something she KNOWS that makes you suspicious or uncomfortable, that shows a complete lack of respect for you. Even if she thinks your thoughts are way out of line, as your spouse, she should still do whatever it is you need to feel comfortable. 

If you really suspect she is cheating, then you need to stop talking to her about it, all you are doing is forcing her to take things underground even further.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

https://www.whistle.com/


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

3Xnocharm said:


> ZDog377 said:
> 
> 
> > So I've always had the suspicion that my wife was doing something behind my back, whether it be physical or emotional. There have been numerous reasons, I have even brought up some of these in counseling. Her first response is "no, I don't have the time or desire", but she never tries to understand where I am coming from. She still continues to do these things...
> ...


I've told her multiple times that it makes me question things. Her response is that she's not so there is no reason for me for me to feel that way. I've asked her with other arguments to consider my point of view but it doesn't happen.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

You must have things other than she works and can't talk when you call her at work but can talk when she's between jobs and calls you, or won't/can't give you a solid schedule. 

She can't really change these things even if you asked and none of them are shady or even unusual.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Not all that long ago IIRC you were set to divorce her and then she talked you out of it. Have those issues improved?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

The fact that she calls you a lot in between jobs points to not cheating. CHeaters spend every second engrossed with their AP (in my meager experience). They simply no longer care for their spouse and don't bother to "call and talk all the time between jobs".

Why do you think she's cheating? 
Does she not give you good sex?
Does she not seem interested in sex with you?
Does she stay on her phone a lot and ignore you and guard her phone?
Is there a lot of unexplained time she is missing?

What you've provided is weird. But not really matching up with cheating in the normal scenario.
If you're paranoid, then do the VAR and find out the truth. If you're paranoid after a couple of weeks with the VAR, you're the problem and not her.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Lots of women want to work so they have their own money and lots of people can't talk at work. I hated when my ex called me at work. I'm busy. She calls you when she's free and sounds like you're available for the call as well.
> If her schedule changes then it'd be hard to always keep you knowing it.
> 
> None of these things sound like an affair.


Except that Z's wife has six figures in student loans that are currently in default.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

ZDog377 said:


> I've told her multiple times that it makes me question things. Her response is that she's not so there is no reason for me for me to feel that way. I've asked her with other arguments to consider my point of view but it doesn't happen.


Z, this may seem completely pointless to you. However, after three or more threads with the same content...

If you change nothing, nothing changes.

Nobody here is going to be able to tell you something that you haven't heard that will get your wife to put more effort into your marriage.

For what it's worth, I don't think she's cheating. However, she's not into you either. 

At this point, you either need to accept her behavior or leave.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Yep, I recognized your name and had to click your main thread.


Evinrude58 said:


> The fact that she calls you a lot in between jobs points to not cheating. CHeaters spend every second engrossed with their AP (in my meager experience). They simply no longer care for their spouse and don't bother to "call and talk all the time between jobs".
> 
> Why do you think she's cheating?
> Does she not give you good sex?
> ...


He can't answer any questions because it started off as a sex Drive issue, morphed into a parenting issue, added a possible EA/PA issue, counseling occurred and ended with a psychiatric visit for possible self harm. I left your thread because you kept going in circles so, now, you are back to the cheating scenario.

Get off the merry-go-round, you are only hurting yourself.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

ZDog377 said:


> I've told her multiple times that it makes me question things. Her response is that she's not so there is no reason for me for me to feel that way. I've asked her with other arguments to consider my point of view but it doesn't happen.


Z, say you found out tonight that she was seeing/talking to someone else...what would be your reaction?

Beyond the hurt feelings and emotions, what do you think you would do?


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> The fact that she calls you a lot in between jobs points to not cheating. CHeaters spend every second engrossed with their AP (in my meager experience). They simply no longer care for their spouse and don't bother to "call and talk all the time between jobs".
> 
> Why do you think she's cheating?
> Does she not give you good sex?
> ...


Sex was plentiful until we had our third. Then she dropped the bomb on me that the only reason she had sex with me was to have kids. Sex has been only after I ask for it since then (once or twice a month) and its usually hurry up and get it over with. 

She's on her phone a fair amount, usually playing some kind of game. If I call and she doesn't answer she blames it on the three year old having her phone. 

There are a few times where I can remember her saying she was on her way home from the store (10 mins away) then shows up 45 to an hour later and says she was at a friend's house or I'll come out and she will stay on her phone for a half hour once in the driveway.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

well you can always plant GPS in her car so you will know exactly where she goes.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

Ceegee said:


> Z, say you found out tonight that she was seeing/talking to someone else...what would be your reaction?
> 
> Beyond the hurt feelings and emotions, what do you think you would do?


I would definitely be done if I had proof.....


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yep, I recognized your name and had to click your main thread.
> 
> He can't answer any questions because it started off as a sex Drive issue, morphed into a parenting issue, added a possible EA/PA issue, counseling occurred and ended with a psychiatric visit for possible self harm. I left your thread because you kept going in circles so, now, you are back to the cheating scenario.
> 
> Get off the merry-go-round, you are only hurting yourself.


Counselling is still going on, the self harm issue wasn't the only thing that made me go for psych help, I was concerned about my having issues with anger and the kids.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

I'm sorry
I don't get it
Why do you think she's having an affair?? 
My four year old constantly has my phone so that is plausible 
I am a working mom and if my h calls me at work 99% of the time it goes to voicemail and it's a while before I call him back.
I'm busy. My job is busy.
We talk when we have an opportunity.
So yeah...sorry
You need to tell us more as to why you think she's cheating.
Also if I found my spouse put a VAR in my car for no apparent good reason I'd leave him.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

He is giving you a snapshot of one issue to protect his wife from any negativity. He can't sum up two years in one or two posts.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/283818-wife-feels-touched-out.html
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/physical-mental-health-issues/368666-im-not-happy-who-i-am-anymore.html

Two years worth of drama and he still seeks out ways to take all of the blame and fix himself, for her, while nothing changes. No, I am not saying she is cheating or is wrong. Just saying his OP is bereft of any context so, he can get beat up for feeling this way. IMO, he is a codependent pain shopper.


So, did your doctor officially diagnosis you as Bipolar?


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> He is giving you a snapshot of one issue to protect his wife from any negativity. He can't sum up two years in one or two posts.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/283818-wife-feels-touched-out.html
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/physical-mental-health-issues/368666-im-not-happy-who-i-am-anymore.html
> ...


That's what they said. I feel that's when stuff started to go south again. She pushed for me to go and then it was like I was not as much of a man once I was diagnosed.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> Z, this may seem completely pointless to you. However, after three or more threads with the same content...
> 
> *If you change nothing, nothing changes.*
> 
> ...


The third option is the first bold sentence. Change. Become the best Z Dog possible. Then everything else will fall into place.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Honestly not really seeing any red flags. Have you tried hiring a PI??


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

manwithnoname said:


> The third option is the first bold sentence. Change. Become the best Z Dog possible. Then everything else will fall into place.


I am working on that. I've asked her if we could start walking again at night when I'm home, that would help us exercise plus get us some alone time together. I feel they finally have me on the right combo of medication for the most part, still needs tweaked a little. I feel it has made things clearer in some aspects of my life. I've started to clear out projects that I knew I didn't have the money/time to finish.


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

Sorry guys. What's a VAR?


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Voice Activated Recorder. If you go that route make sure it's well hidden and secure. I literally face palm every time I hear about a potential WS finding the VAR because they were careless, didn't use enough tape, etc.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

If she doesn't let you track her via an iPhone or you worry about her turning GPS off, there is a $50 tracker on Amazon with a $15 magnetic case that has awesome reviews. It does require a $25/m fee for the wireless carrier so you can track it real time. This is a safe bet since you can hide under the frame of the car and she'll never know about it (just remove it before she takes it in for oil change/service). You'll see exactly where and when she goes, and can setup geofencing alerts if she leaves or enters a certain area. Main risk is the reoccurring $25/mo fee, so make sure she can't see it.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

ZDog377 said:


> So I've always had the suspicion that my wife was doing something behind my back, whether it be physical or emotional. There have been numerous reasons, I have even brought up some of these in counseling. Her first response is "no, I don't have the time or desire", but she never tries to understand where I am coming from. She still continues to do these things...
> 
> How do I get these thoughts out of my head? Especially with our issues going on it's one of the first things I go to sometimes....


*I have advised you that your gut instinct is preeminently the best barometer in the world to determine marital infidelity!

Please enlighten us all as to exactly what has transpired or has happened to you thus far:

*Have you received the ignominious ILYBINILWY?

*Has there been a severe or drastic reduction in sex and overt affection?

*Has there been noticeable absences from home with little to no explanations, or overt defensiveness when questioned about it?

*Has there been ultraprotectiveness of her passwords, social media activity as well as her cell phone and PC?

*When her phone rings, does she take her conversation to some other cloistered place in the house or even outside?

*Does she work outside of the home, and if so, is she "working" beyond the scope of her call to duty?

*Does she praise other men acquaintances in front of you or in any way, throw up their success to you, or at the same time belittle yours in front of you, family, or friends?

Any of these, and even many more that I haven't even thought of to mention are the noteable "Red flags" that can preeminently lead to marital infidelity!

So have any of these actually happened to you? Or perhaps something that I have not mentioned? 

I'm surmising and am trusting that they have!*


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Mental illness and anxiety can cause your gut instincts to not always be right. Trust me, I live it. 

Stop putting this on her for right now. No var, no pi, no looking through her things. There's little of any cheating signs and it'll ruin any chance you can fix your marriage. 

Just worry about you right now. Many woman would refuse sex if he has issues with instability and anger and self harming he is needing to work on.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

ZDog377 said:


> She's on her phone a fair amount, usually playing some kind of game. If I call and she doesn't answer she blames it on the three year old having her phone.
> 
> There are a few times where I can remember her saying she was on her way home from the store (10 mins away) then shows up 45 to an hour later and says she was at a friend's house or I'll come out and she will stay on her phone for a half hour once in the driveway.


Looking for excuses to run the store...gone for hours, sitting in her car on the phone in the driveway or at the end of our subdivision. My XWW did this stuff as well. It sounds like she doesn't have any empathy for the way you feel either. That's a red flag too.

ZDog, all I can say is it starts with a gut feeling. Your subconscious is telling you something is wrong, believe it. I ignored mine for too long.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

So during counseling yesterday, something very interesting was brought up. We were talking about finances and I explained how she needed to cut back on the spending and how I felt that she needed to almost cut out personal spending until she got the credit card paid down until a certain point. Counselor said that this was too "parent like" and I needed to let her handle this on her own. If she wanted to run her credit card bill up then that was her problem since my name was not on the card. 

She explained that this acting like a parent could also cause a sexual attraction issue.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ZDog377 said:


> I would definitely be done if I had proof.....


So, do you really genuinely think she is cheating?

Or do you hope that she is cheating so you can be done with her?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

ZDog377 said:


> So during counseling yesterday, something very interesting was brought up. We were talking about finances and I explained how she needed to cut back on the spending and how I felt that she needed to almost cut out personal spending until she got the credit card paid down until a certain point. Counselor said that this was too "parent like" and I needed to let her handle this on her own. If she wanted to run her credit card bill up then that was her problem since my name was not on the card.
> 
> She explained that this acting like a parent could also cause a sexual attraction issue.


The counselor might be wrong about the credit card.

My son caught his wife cheating. She had maxed out two credit cards he did not even know she had (her name only). After the divorce the card companies came after him for payment. Community property applies to all assets accumulated during marriage, it also applies to debt accumulated during marriage. Did not matter whose name was on the account.

Your location MIGHT change this, but if it worries you, check with a lawyer.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

TDSC60 said:


> The counselor might be wrong about the credit card.
> 
> My son caught his wife cheating. She had maxed out two credit cards he did not even know she had (her name only). After the divorce the card companies came after him for payment. Community property applies to all assets accumulated during marriage, it also applies to debt accumulated during marriage. Did not matter whose name was on the account.
> 
> Your location MIGHT change this, but if it worries you, check with a lawyer.


 ^THIS!^
Your MC just proved they don't see the big picture or they are just not qualified for their job. Her debt is half your debt until you file.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

Rubix Cubed said:


> ^THIS!^
> Your MC just proved they don't see the big picture or they are just not qualified for their job. Her debt is half your debt until you file.


I didn't say anything there, but that was the same thing that I was thinking. 

I also asked about what would happen then when she runs it up so high that she can no longer make the minimum payment. She stated that she would then have to pick up extra hours to be able to work that out. I just had to laugh to myself.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

And what's the counselor's advice about the high student loan debt that your wife ignores -- or is she taking care of it now?

I don't see that much has changed from the time when you were planning to divorce her and she talked you out of it.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

Zdog- I will add a different but possible scenario. My H had some red flags going on and I became suspicious- I VARed his car, GPS'd his phone, checked both his phones regularly, went through his garage, went through his bank statements, checked every pocket of his clothing.....I never found anything conclusive but continued to look.

I was trying desperately to prove the worst possible scenario (that he was cheating with a coworker) was true so that I could could finally stop searching. I was also trying desparately to prove it wasnt true so that I could stop the pain and anxiety the thoughts were causing. 

We were in MC. I was in IC. I was on antidepressents. I confronted him regularly with some piece of evidence- we would argue and fight - I would blow a gasket - it would take a few days I'd get over it continue looking for my "bad news"...
This thought that he was cheating became an obsession and the behaviour of constantly checking and looking to find evidence became a compulsion to relieve the anxiety of the obsessive thoughts. Eventually I was spending hours and hours and hours going through phone records, logging his activities and whereabouts..it gradually took over more and more of my life. Noone knew the extent of dysfunction. No one knew because most other areas in my life seemed fine. I was able to compartmentalize the crazy quite well.

I was told I was codependent and read books and went to a support group but it didnt ring true for me.

Then I read an article about anxiety disorders called "searching for bad news" by dr. Heather Stone. PLEASE read it!!!!!! 

It described my actions and more importantly my emotions so perfectly that I had to consider the possibility that I was wrong- there might not be an ongoing affair, and that I was suffering from a form of OCD.

I discussed it with IC, and my Dr. and went on medication for it after reading some kind posts from @sokillme 

OMG what a profound difference this has made in my life. I have room in my brain for other thoughts now. I can accomplish normal daily chores like shopping and cleaning. I'm not wasting all my time and energy on the detective work....I no longer have that pit of the stomach gripping fear all the time.

I will never know for sure whether those red flags actually were indications of an EA/PA. I suspect at least an EA was brewing several years ago. I can now accept that I will never know and have chosen to live with that and move on. Our marriage is now everything I ever wanted it to be. (I also had a PA 25 years ago-so who am I to judge)


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

NJ2 said:


> Zdog- I will add a different but possible scenario. My H had some red flags going on and I became suspicious- I VARed his car, GPS'd his phone, checked both his phones regularly, went through his garage, went through his bank statements, checked every pocket of his clothing.....I never found anything conclusive but continued to look.
> 
> I was trying desperately to prove the worst possible scenario (that he was cheating with a coworker) was true so that I could could finally stop searching. I was also trying desparately to prove it wasnt true so that I could stop the pain and anxiety the thoughts were causing.
> 
> ...


This sounds exactly what I'm going through now. I feel slightly better since my psych doctor has me on some new medication, but that feeling is still there every now and then. 
@Openminded, that is something I'm going to bring up next visit. It's been proven multiple times that if someone doesn't hold her hand with financial stuff, it is disaster.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Get a new counselor. Yours is a dud.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

ZDog377 said:


> So during counseling yesterday, something very interesting was brought up. We were talking about finances and I explained how she needed to cut back on the spending and how I felt that she needed to almost cut out personal spending until she got the credit card paid down until a certain point. *Counselor said that this was too "parent like" and I needed to let her handle this on her own. If she wanted to run her credit card bill up then that was her problem since my name was not on the card. *
> 
> She explained that this acting like a parent could also cause a sexual attraction issue.


Say What!
*
“In community property states, most debts incurred by either spouse during the marriage are owed by the 'community' (the couple), even if only one spouse signed the paperwork for a debt. The key here is during the marriage. ... However, if you have private student loans, your spouse could be responsible for your debt.

If you live in a community property state, you can be held responsible for debt incurred by your spouse even if you were unaware of the debt and did not sign an agreement with a creditor. In other words, in a community property state marital debt is considered joint debt — debt that you are both responsible for."
*

Google says... your counselor is an idiot.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Acting like a parent does cause sexual attraction issues..... nobody gets turned on by their mother or father. 

But debt incurred while married is an issue because it's joint. 

You just need to make sure you approach her as a partner and fellow adult..... without a daddy tone. See if you can find a counselor to help with that. 

You don't tell her what she can and can't spend money on..... that's a daddy attitude. You sit with her and go over the credit card bills and come to a solution together. 

Have you tried this?


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> Acting like a parent does cause sexual attraction issues..... nobody gets turned on by their mother or father.
> 
> But debt incurred while married is an issue because it's joint.
> 
> ...


I feel I have, maybe I haven't the way it makes sense to her. Money has always been high on my list, I grew up seeing my parents be paycheck to paycheck most of the time. We have tried to do a budget before, it usually doesn't work for one reason or another.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

ZDog377 said:


> I feel I have, maybe I haven't the way it makes sense to her. Money has always been high on my list, I grew up seeing my parents be paycheck to paycheck most of the time. *We have tried to do a budget before, it usually doesn't work for one reason or another.*


The one reason is her uncontrolled spending. My son's ExW would buy something that was "on sale" simply because it was "on sale". He would ask her why she bought it since she had no need or use for the items - her answer - "it was on-sale". She had a closet full of shoes (still in the boxes) and clothing (price tags still attached) that she never wore. All purchased on-sale. Staying on a budget was impossible for her. Impulse buying.

Sound familiar.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

TDSC60 said:


> The one reason is her uncontrolled spending. My son's ExW would buy something that was "on sale" simply because it was "on sale". He would ask her why she bought it since she had no need or use for the items - her answer - "it was on-sale". She had a closet full of shoes (still in the boxes) and clothing (price tags still attached) that she never wore. All purchased on-sale. Staying on a budget was impossible for her. Impulse buying.
> 
> Sound familiar.


She doesn't overspend on herself most of the time. She will do it on the kids. She wanted to buy them each one of the 12v ride on cars for their birthdays this year (the younger two). At over $100/each I told her no way. We ended up settling on something a little less expensive and were able to use the money my grandmother gave them towards it. 

I have reigned in my impulse spending a lot. I used to buy a lot when things were on sale with hopes of selling for a profit. I've started to sell off the excess I've accumulated and anymore I try and sell one of its on sale, if it doesn't sell I return it.

I got mad the other day and told her she was a cake eater. I explained why and told her that she doesn't have to work and chooses to, is able to be at all the kid's activities and so on. I then got really mad and told her that it seems like she wanted all the comfort of marriage without the work that one requires...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ZDog377 said:


> I feel I have, maybe I haven't the way it makes sense to her. Money has always been high on my list, I grew up seeing my parents be paycheck to paycheck most of the time. We have tried to do a budget before, it usually doesn't work for one reason or another.


When you've done this, how have you approached it?

I'm thinking it's led by you and she agrees to it, but that doesn't really make her part of the solution. If you think she didn't understand then she isn't part of the solution..... she's a teenager and you're a mean daddy trying to control her.

Have you shown her the money coming in and going out, then asked what she'd like to do?

When you put the onus on her to offer a solution, it is often received differently then when you offer the solution and she agrees. That is a parent dynamic, and while she agrees she isn't necessarily on board with it, and this can create a rebellious response. She has to be on board with things, so tell her you aren't interested in a budget she won't or can't keep.

It might not fix things but if you haven't tried it you should. Her comment to the counselor suggests that she sees you as a parent.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> When you've done this, how have you approached it?
> 
> I'm thinking it's led by you and she agrees to it, but that doesn't really make her part of the solution. If you think she didn't understand then she isn't part of the solution..... she's a teenager and you're a mean daddy trying to control her.
> 
> ...


I'm going to try this tonight and see how it goes. I asked her earlier today if she would be able to sit down later and go over the bills and come up with a budget that would work for for her. She agreed and hopefully this means we can make some progress.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

ZDog377 said:


> I've been looking at the cell phone bill for a while, it is hard for some numbers because *she is a mobile therapist* and can't have names attached to some numbers. I do need to get her new password for Facebook, it changed recently and she hasn't given me the new one.


OK, so you mention that she is a mobile therapist. What is that? Is it a psychological-related job?

Then you also mention that you try to contact her and she doesn't respond. You think that is a sign of cheating.

If she is a therapist, she can't be taking your calls during a therapy session with a patient.

That by itself is no sign of cheating.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

michzz said:


> OK, so you mention that she is a mobile therapist. What is that? Is it a psychological-related job?
> 
> Then you also mention that you try to contact her and she doesn't respond. You think that is a sign of cheating.
> 
> ...


I never said that was the only item that caused me to think she was cheating. Also, I mentioned that I try and contact her when she says she has free time and don't get a call back. That's why I've also asked for a schedule. She says it's controlling, I said that I would just like to know if she should have been home three hours ago or five minutes ago. When I do contact her during a meeting with a parent/child, I usually do a text message and only if she has messaged me asking for something or it is an emergency. 

I feel the things I'm asking for are common courtesy, she feels they are controlling. Just like she's been reading the scarymommy.com blog online and I made the joke that I should block it the other day because she's always posting articles from it. Once again, that was taken as I want to be controlling.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

arbitrator said:


> *I have advised you that your gut instinct is preeminently the best barometer in the world to determine marital infidelity!
> 
> Please enlighten us all as to exactly what has transpired or has happened to you thus far:
> 
> ...


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

michzz said:


> OK, so you mention that she is a mobile therapist. What is that? Is it a psychological-related job?
> 
> Then you also mention that you try to contact her and she doesn't respond. You think that is a sign of cheating.
> 
> ...





ZDog377 said:


> I never said that was the only item that caused me to think she was cheating. Also, I mentioned that I try and contact her when she says she has free time and don't get a call back. That's why I've also asked for a schedule. She says it's controlling, I said that I would just like to know if she should have been home three hours ago or five minutes ago. When I do contact her during a meeting with a parent/child, I usually do a text message and only if she has messaged me asking for something or it is an emergency.
> 
> I feel the things I'm asking for are* common courtesy*, she feels they are *controlling*. Just like she's been reading the scarymommy.com blog online and I made the joke that I should block it the other day because she's always posting articles from it. Once again, that was taken as I want to be controlling.


Because you lack receiving common courtesy out of her, you have upped your requests into the anxiety zone/controlling behavior. She is right.

BUT, BUT, BUT, she is manipulating you into it. Your wife is a trained professional in psychological issues. and she is using techniques she knows about to gaslight you and try to make herself look like an innocent.

If I were you I would quit trying to find out what she is up to. Insist on getting a "I'm on my way home from work now" call or text.

Stop planning your evening around her presence or absence. 

If she won't agree to that common courtesy?

File for divorce.

Watch her self-regulated behavior. If she gives a rat's a$$ about you she will do as you ask---NOT just say she will do it to appease your demands.

If your wife is cheating you really cannot "make" her stop it.

And if she is cheating, why bother?

I made that mistake, trust me, I know the script well. too well.

Better to leave her.

It took me a long time to get my head around that decision.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

It'd probably be a lot easier for you to believe it if she weren't running the script.

Buy one of these and put it in her car...










Oh, and (obviously) don't tell her about it.

Also be sure to configure it so that it doesn't make any noise when starting the car, accelerating past 70 mph, etc. (All of that is configurable in the app.)


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## Anthony Wellers (Jul 29, 2017)

Jasel said:


> Voice Activated Recorder. If you go that route make sure it's well hidden and secure. I literally face palm every time I hear about a potential WS finding the VAR because they were careless, didn't use enough tape, etc.


Go extremely covert.

https://www.spyequipmentuk.co.uk/

Maybe there's a US equivalent as well (in fact, I'm sure there is).

Also, look at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Anthony Wellers said:


> Go extremely covert.
> 
> https://www.spyequipmentuk.co.uk/
> 
> ...


Google "Brickhouse Security".


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

Hmm... I occasionally get worried my dear husband is cheating on me too (and it's horrifying, I know), and what I have discovered (as of today) that helped me tell whether it was anxiety or a possible affair was to ask myself how I felt when he was in the room. I noticed that my anxiety and worry died the second I saw his face. Also, I noticed I was jumpy and easily frightened in general. This may not be true for everyone, but maybe you should notice the amount you worry in other aspects of your life to see whether you're just a worrier and not a betrayed husband.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

citygirl4344 said:


> I'm sorry
> I don't get it
> Why do you think she's having an affair??
> My four year old constantly has my phone so that is plausible
> ...


Easy to say....

At first you would be stunned....if you were not cheating.
Then you would be hurt.
Then you would be angry.

Then?
Then, you would think this guy really loves me. He is an idiot for doing this. BUT...He does not want to lose me.

Then you would smile.
Then you would watch him...to see if he goes off the rails and crashes the marriage further.
...............................................................................................................................

You talk tough. 

However, true love cannot so easily be quenched. If it can, it is not love...it is convenience that holds the marriage together.

Lovers put up with a bunch of inter-personal, painful stuff. They have to. Marriage is tough.
Remember, spouses are in their Own Image...not Yours.

HAH!

Just Sayin'


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> Easy to say....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You have a point in that I would think he was projecting his own paranoia into myself. I would watch and wait however ultimately the trust would be gone and the marriage over.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

citygirl4344 said:


> You have a point in that I would think he was projecting his own paranoia into myself. I would watch and wait however ultimately the trust would be gone and the marriage over.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Your' thin Skin protected.
Your' Ego never to be dinged. Never questioned.

The trust was gone when he snooped your Sniff.
Aye, Lass. His eye lash cover his red, worried, doubting and right wet eye.

His lost trust, even misguided wrongful trust, came from a fearful place.
A place free of Malice or wooden mallets.

He loves what is his. What he thinks is his. What he hopes is his.
He needs what you seem.
He fears that what he clearly feels.

You, his wife, only keep him close.
Keep him close when he is good.
When he is sure. Sure of you.

When his own fears and your lackluster concern give the man anxiety.
When you put conditions on your union.
When he quivers, you un-hook his Caboose, after the first curve it tilts.

And then you bade him... go free. His three legged Caboose then stops, only to roll backwards.
Away from your Ego. Oh, I see it, your righteous Engine blowing cool,coal laced smoke.
As you chug up your High Mountain of PermaFrost. You are righteous. And you are free. 

You, by your words can carry no load. 
Ah, Yes! Dump the Jitterbug, shake his legs 'Free of Thee'.
And this is your love and this is your Exemplar?

Just Sayin'

Justly saying, Methinks.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

So over the past few days I have thought a lot about what's going on and I think it boils down to a lack of respect. I took my oldest with me for work a few times last month and he was beat by the end of the day. He admitted that it wasn't as fun as mom made it out to be. She tells me the other day during an argument that "it doesn't seem like it would be that bad". I've told her numerous times that I appreciate her and how she takes care of the kids. The respect doesn't seem to go both ways. 

Setting boundaries feels like a lost cause. She wants to go visit a female friend that is going through a divorce but then changes he mind and says she can't trust me to take care of the kids. Then she will add that is only one of the reasons. 

I'm past believing it's a physical affair, but I still have strong thoughts of an emotional affair going on.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

So my last post about this. Last week I purchased a small webcam that looks like a minion (from the movies) and decided to set it up in the living room to play around with. She kept on asking why I got it and if it was going to stay in the living room. The kids love it because you can make it talk like a minion when you want. Anyways, I asked her what the big deal was. She said it was creepy and controlling that I could check on them at any time. Then we got into the argument about what was different between this and security cameras and so on. I asked her if she thought the issue was trust. Her response was "I know you don't trust me, but it doesn't bother me since I've done nothing wrong". This started another discussion.....


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

ZDog377 said:


> So my last post about this. Last week I purchased a small webcam that looks like a minion (from the movies) and decided to set it up in the living room to play around with. She kept on asking why I got it and if it was going to stay in the living room. The kids love it because you can make it talk like a minion when you want. Anyways, I asked her what the big deal was. She said it was creepy and controlling that I could check on them at any time. Then we got into the argument about what was different between this and security cameras and so on. I asked her if she thought the issue was trust. Her response was "I know you don't trust me, but it doesn't bother me since I've done nothing wrong". This started another discussion.....


I disagree with the others. There are signs of cheating.

However, you keep dabbling in inefficient actions.

You have to take assertive action in order to determine once and for all if she is cheating or not. 

BTW, why would you tell her you got the camera ? That is self defeating


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Her continued use of "controlling" is worrisome.

Giving your spouse your schedule is common courtesy - not controlling. After all, you are not trying to change her schedule. Like you said, you have the right, as her husband to know if she is due home in 30 mins. or 3 hours.

It seems that the term controlling comes up every time you show interest in where she is and what she is doing. Almost sounds like someone is schooling her. Telling her that this is you trying to control her.

Being overly controlling is bad(it does not sound to me like you are), but so is deception and secrecy.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

I always go with my gut and it is right a lot more than wrong. Hired a private detective and you will know for sure one way or the other. The problem you have is one that I had faced once before. Thinking she is cheating is almost as bad as if I knew she was cheating. You go through the same emotions and knot in the gut when she is not with you. You can talk to her and ask her not to do the things that make you suspicious. If she loves you she should agree to that. If she starts an argument about her space and doing what she wants, you make of that what you will.


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