# Had the birds and the bees conversation with my son mainly telling him to use protection and so on but instead he confided in me



## someguyfromthenorth (5 mo ago)

So yeah I thought my son was dating a girl and I decided to have the birds and bees conversation basiclly telling him to use protection and so on.

He instead confided in me and the kid has no confidence whatsoever he seems depressed and lonely he even asked about chemical castration since that could make him not think about girls I told him that's not something he should even consider or even would get given his age.

But he just felt like a loser and that no girl would even look twice at him and he just wanted to not have to deal with it.

I honestly feel horrible for bringing it up now he is a good looking kid but he has no confidence and just seems depressed all the time.

I did not know how badly he struggled with his self image and makes me feel aweful I told my wife and we agreed he should talk to somebody he has been holding this in for quite some time.

I honestly feel like a horrible father for not noticing and after he told me he just got very quiet.

He is 16 for the record


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

someguyfromthenorth said:


> So yeah I thought my son was dating a girl and I decided to have the birds and bees conversation basiclly telling him to use protection and so on.
> 
> He instead confided in me and the kid has no confidence whatsoever he seems depressed and lonely he even asked about chemical castration since that could make him not think about girls I told him that's not something he should even consider or even would get given his age.
> 
> ...


Teens are like marshmallows. They think everybody notices all of their faults when most people are too wrapped up thinking about themselves to notice much of anything. But it's also true that nearly all teens feel some kind of bullying and that really tears down their self-confidence.

It's hard for a parent to be objective. Obviously your children are always beautiful and wonderful to you. But it would be good to have a realistic impression of how others might see him. And take a good look at the kids his age where he goes to school and be sure he just kind of doesn't stick out. Be sure his grooming is in line with the way most of the kids look and nothing there is being neglected. 

Self-esteem is built by making your own accomplishments that you are proud of, not by being given stuff by your parents or getting a trophy everyone else got at school.

So many kids grow up with porn, and that would only make a teenager very frustrated and have unrealistic expectations. So I would have a talk with him about that. Be sure he knows those are paid actresses and and not to expect women to look or act like that. Just make sure he realizes that is not real life and he is not entitled to that so why torture himself watching it.

But now that he's 16 I would encourage him to get a little part-time job. Ideally it would be something he has a little interest in, but the main thing is that it's something he can succeed in and feel appreciated in so he starts getting an idea that he is worth something. He could even go someplace and work for the summer on a ranch or at a camp. It would give him something to feel good about and talk to other people about.

Even if it turns out he's unable to get a paying job, volunteering at something that sounded good to him would give him some interest. It could be something like picking up poop at the zoo. For a person to be interesting they need to do interesting things so they have something interesting to talk to others about. So I would get him working doing something that had some element of interest in it.

He thinks his whole problem is about girls but his problem is about self-esteem and if he develops self-esteem, eventually girls will come along.

There are not too many men or women who are confident at age 16. But getting him started making his own accomplishments might mean he starts feeling better about himself sooner.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

The hormones are a still new and tumultuous thing at this age. Get him into counseling to either build self esteem or reset his goals.

I was shy and nerdy and just accepted that was my lot. I wasn't happy with being celibate, but my social skills left me there. It was not until I was almost 30 that some women decided to change that. It's survivable.

Castration means he has no hope of changing things. I was medically castrate for most of 2022 and that is not somewhere he wants to go. It causes male menopause. Ask any woman and she'll tell you that is one personal hell. Long term leads to loss of muscle mass, loss of bone density, "brain fog"/cognitive issues, other health issues.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You need to get him in some counseling, hopefully tell him he can try several abd pick one. I deal with kids a lot. Depressed kids do crazy life altering things. He’s reaching out for help. Took a lot of courage to share that with you. The fact that he did speaks well of you too. Good luck


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

A lot of schools have school counselors that he could talk to. A friend of mine has a daughter who is recently diagnosed bipolar and undergoing a lot of trauma right now and she is in constant contact with her school counselors. She has also had other therapy. It might give him one other person to talk to so you might just call and find out what the resources are there for school counselors and then suggest that he could talk to them if he wanted.


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## someguyfromthenorth (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Teens are like marshmallows. They think everybody notices all of their faults when most people are too wrapped up thinking about themselves to notice much of anything. But it's also true that nearly all teens feel some kind of bullying and that really tears down their self-confidence.
> 
> It's hard for a parent to be objective. Obviously your children are always beautiful and wonderful to you. But it would be good to have a realistic impression of how others might see him. And take a good look at the kids his age where he goes to school and be sure he just kind of doesn't stick out. Be sure his grooming is in line with the way most of the kids look and nothing there is being neglected.
> 
> ...



He has a job and he loves music and playes the guitar quite well but he no longer finds joy in anything and everytime I try to propose something that I believed he liked he just shrugs.

He is not even angry or agressive in any way he just seems like he has given up on everything and just seems apatetic to everything.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

someguyfromthenorth said:


> He has a job and he loves music and playes the guitar quite well but he no longer finds joy in anything and everytime I try to propose something that I believed he liked he just shrugs.
> 
> He is not even angry or agressive in any way he just seems like he has given up on everything and just seems apatetic to everything.


You know at the bottom of it is probably an unrequited crush on a girl. But now is the time to learn how to deal with that. Everybody has to. But I would still recommend that he talk to the school counselor but I would first contact them and find out what different things they could talk to him about. 

As soon as he gets himself a garage band and he gets any gig at all where he's playing in public, he will start getting girls. 

You know in high school and even later in life, 90% of the kids are in love with the same 10% most desirable ones and it's hard to learn back when you have a bunch of emotions or desires, that doesn't mean at all that they will be returned. 

I would ask him if it was a girl and see if he'll talk at all.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Girls and such isn’t your boy’s problem. Real depression is. It needs addressing. Try to avoid medication if possible if there are other means, is what I suggest.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Evinrude58 said:


> Girls and such isn’t your boy’s problem. Real depression is. It needs addressing. Try to avoid medication if possible if there are other means, is what I suggest.


I agree. I found that meds didn't do much for me other than kill my libido. Dunno how that is supposed to stop depression so gave them up.

I have a bottle of pills sitting on the shelf that supposedly don't cause loss of libido, but I found massage did the job.

Your son's depression is coming from a much deeper place than mine, though. He needs some serious counseling by a competent mental health professional.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

They try not to do too much diagnosing of teenagers because they already exhibit symptoms of a whole lot of the major psychiatric disorders just because they're teenagers. So they don't want to get them started on some regimen that in 2 years they won't need.

Counseling or therapy. Honestly a lot of people are depressed at times in junior high and high school. The likelihood is that his depression is situational and temporary. But there are people who suffer from chronic depression so it would be good to rule that out but again it's not that easy on teenagers because everything about being a teenager lends itself to unbalanced behavior. I honestly think that not acting despondent and depressed is probably more unusual for a teenager than doing so.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

By the way, it's great your son took that opportunity to open up to you.


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## Max.HeadRoom (Jun 28, 2014)

Some kids thrive in high school & dating there others do not; I did not fit in and like your son I thought I was doomed, high school was the only world I know then and nobody could tell me otherwise. My dad tried. Once out in the real world, I did just fine and your boy may do as well. 

His depression about his is real as was mine. You opened the door foor communication so keep it going and keep it positive. Someone who specializes in teens for consoling. Focus on the other things that are going well.


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## Corgi Mum (10 mo ago)

someguyfromthenorth said:


> He has a job and he loves music and playes the guitar quite well but he no longer finds joy in anything and everytime I try to propose something that I believed he liked he just shrugs.
> 
> He is not even angry or agressive in any way he just seems like he has given up on everything and just seems apatetic to everything.


Loss of interest in hobbies and activities that were once enjoyable and engaging is a bit of an alarm bell.

Teenagers can and do suffer from clinical depression. A friend's son who was super popular socially, involved in various organizations, brilliant (head hunted by top universities in his final year of high school) and had everything going for him started having serious issues with depression in high school.


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## LoganLeco1991 (Nov 23, 2021)

Try convincing him to do some sports and compete. Specially martial arts, more specially Brazilian jiu jitsu. Martil arts can do amazing things for kids that dont have confidence. 1st, he will learn to control his body and his emotions. He will face defeat on a daily basis and will learn how to deal with his frustrations on a safe environment. 2nd he will start to improve and start wining. There is nothing more powerful for a male kid that knowing he can defend himself. 

I mention Brazilian Jiu Jitsu because is the most gentle art out there. It allows you to train and spar at 100% every single day withou getting injuried. 

It has done amazing things for me and improved my life so much that i wished i started as a kid.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

I had the birds and the bees talk with my 17 year old recently. I think I understand everything he told me.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

someguyfromthenorth said:


> So yeah I thought my son was dating a girl and I decided to have the birds and bees conversation basiclly telling him to use protection and so on.
> 
> He instead confided in me and the kid has no confidence whatsoever he seems depressed and lonely he even asked about chemical castration since that could make him not think about girls I told him that's not something he should even consider or even would get given his age.
> 
> ...


I had some of the same same feelings at that age that your son did. I was regularly told by peers that I would live and die alone. My current GF is kind of baffled when I tell her this but it doesn't make it any less true.

One thing that you can propose is a different approach. It was a bit of a combination of "don't give the assholes the satisfaction" and "I'll show you (them)". So. Much. Anger.

For instance, regardless of his starting physique, if he works out consistently he will literally be in better shape than 90% of his peers a few years out of high school when they don't have adults pushing them anymore. Learning to cook is a simple skill that is relatively cheap to learn. I mean most recipes are just a hand full of steps and less than 10 ingredients and you can literally screw up 3 or 4 of the meals for the cost of going out to eat one of them. Its a marketable skill for others and useful for yourself later on. Most trades and college majors are more about work ethic than talent so someone with average abilities that works hard can generally do well. In a more uncomfortable area, the anatomical knowledge and technique that will help to satisfy a woman is essentially free on the internet. A teenage girl might be judgmental about a guy wanting to study (either thinking that the guy should just _know_ or consider him a pervert or something) but I think most if not all of them come to appreciate the knowledge and effort as they get older.

Even if it doesn't result in a relationship right away, he would be able to be _smug_ with regard to complaints about "guys". All. The. Time. All of it.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

someguyfromthenorth said:


> So yeah I thought my son was dating a girl and I decided to have the birds and bees conversation basiclly telling him to use protection and so on.
> 
> He instead confided in me and the kid has no confidence whatsoever he seems depressed and lonely he even asked about chemical castration since that could make him not think about girls I told him that's not something he should even consider or even would get given his age.
> 
> ...


Your son was extremely brave and needs to be praised for that. He also needs his dad to not drop the ball and continue to have "man to man" talks with his son. Note that I said man to man and not dad to son. You want two way communications where you can share things with him and he with you.

You have gotten lots of great advice. There was one piece of advice that was missing. It is the very high teen suicide rate. Teenagers and young adults really need to be watched (from a distance so they don't feel smothered) so if they get depressed they don't do anything life threatening.

My suggestion is you read up on the signs of suicide. (I have had a co-worker's husband commit suicide, a teenage brother-in-law just after I married my wife, and a father in law who once threatened suicide.) From my perspective everyone should learn the signs of suicide.

One of the most important life lessons you can give your son in your man to man talks is how hugely important some things seem when you are a teenager and how utterly unimportant they were when you were an adult. For example, getting a bad grade in a course in high school or college may seem like a bit deal at the time, but after you have a career job, it means nothing. Similarly, doing something illegal and getting caught by the police may feel like your life will be ruined, but it probably will not or be excused as a crazy youthful thing. Helping him gain perspective about the things that terrify him is the best thing you can do for him.

He sounds like a good kid and should turn out fine.

If you want to help his social development get him a copy of the book by Chapman, the Five Languages of Love. A teenager who understands that will be quite the ladies man.

Good luck.


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## someguyfromthenorth (5 mo ago)

Tanks for the advice and comments we finally convinced him to talk to somebody and it's much worse than I had anticepated, he admitted that he had thought about suicide and made a plan a year ago but never followed through.

He just is not happy with anything more passive and hardly engages anyone in a conversation it's so difficult to watch because he seems to not have any passion for anything anymore.

So he continues to be in therapy but not sure if it helps and we made it clear to him if this therapist does not work or does not feel comfortable for him we can find someone else for him to talk to.

After we found out more he seems more quiet and never been aggressive or angry but just seems down all the time, my wife feels at a loss she has tried to make him his favourite food or just about anything to make him feel a little better but nothing seems to work.

One therapist believes he suffers from chronic depression but the therapist is not sure of the diagnosis yet.

It's hard seeing him this sad and this is more than just regular teenager phase we are very aware of that, but he seems to have given up on life and seems that he has no hope for the future.

He goes to school and hardly engages us in a conversation and still has his part time job which he shows up for, I had to ask his boss a friend of mine if he had noticed anything and he just said he is professional with the customers but very quiet all the time and he was about to ask me if he was okay because even he was a little worried about him.

I don't know much about depression I never had it (of course been sad and depressed in my life) but never like this so I am just trying to understand as much as I can.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I'm glad you have him in therapy. It's a good sign that he is functioning well at work. Some people with chronic depression can't do that. Can be different I guess once they really diagnose him then maybe they can find something to help. But they're right to watch him for a while first because again he's a teenager and there are a whole lot of depressed teenagers. They just take things too hard at that age. Has either your son or the psychologist discovered a trigger?


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## someguyfromthenorth (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm glad you have him in therapy. It's a good sign that he is functioning well at work. Some people with chronic depression can't do that. Can be different I guess once they really diagnose him then maybe they can find something to help. But they're right to watch him for a while first because again he's a teenager and there are a whole lot of depressed teenagers. They just take things too hard at that age. Has either your son or the psychologist discovered a trigger?



No not discovered but clearly something has affected him because it feels he has been holding in his true feelings for awhile and has decided to just be depressed since he feels he does not have to hide it anymore.

One theory is that me and my wife are very extroverted people and one suggestion was that we somehow has made him feel inaduquate or abnormal since we have many friends and a large social circle, I did not realize just how alone he was all this time.

I never been in that situation and was rather lucky at my school and had a lot of friends and so did my wife growing up, and I am not gonna pretend being a teenager today is the same as it was back when I was a teenager there is a lot of pressure for teenagers out there right now.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Depression is no joke especially among teens. I'd take him to a counselor, he may need antidepressants.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

someguyfromthenorth said:


> No not discovered but clearly something has affected him because it feels he has been holding in his true feelings for awhile and has decided to just be depressed since he feels he does not have to hide it anymore.
> 
> One theory is that me and my wife are very extroverted people and one suggestion was that we somehow has made him feel inaduquate or abnormal since we have many friends and a large social circle, I did not realize just how alone he was all this time.
> 
> I never been in that situation and was rather lucky at my school and had a lot of friends and so did my wife growing up, and I am not gonna pretend being a teenager today is the same as it was back when I was a teenager there is a lot of pressure for teenagers out there right now.


I think it sounds like you and your wife provided good social role models for him.


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## someguyfromthenorth (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think it sounds like you and your wife provided good social role models for him.


Maybe but us being successful at it while he is not and him hearing our stories may left him feeling lonelier and that's not something to celebrate either, because we are very extroverted people while he is not and that might put pressure on him and we have to accept that he is his own person and maybe not like us at all.

It's hard because he really seems so sad all the time with no confidence whatsoever and whatever I or my wife suggests does not seem to work.

I wrote that he plays guitar but does not play anymore and seems to have lost all interest and have no real passion for anything anymore.

At the same time there is nothing to really complain about when it comes to him he still does his chores, helps out around the house, and does his homework.

It's strange and he seems to be on a different planet sometimes just sitting there in his own thoughts.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

someguyfromthenorth said:


> Maybe but us being successful at it while he is not and him hearing our stories may left him feeling lonelier and that's not something to celebrate either, because we are very extroverted people while he is not and that might put pressure on him and we have to accept that he is his own person and maybe not like us at all.
> 
> It's hard because he really seems so sad all the time with no confidence whatsoever and whatever I or my wife suggests does not seem to work.
> 
> ...


I hope the psychologist gets in diagnosed correctly and finds out what is the source of his depression. 

All I can tell you is that I have certainly seen a whole lot of teenagers who acted the same way and didn't even function as well. So it seems pretty common.


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