# What would you do?



## scooterM (Apr 4, 2016)

This is my first post after recently discovering this site. What's really interesting to me is I see a lot of posts that have common elements as my relationship. 

I'm interested in getting people's opinions about my marriage and if I should stay or go. 

My wife and I have been married 18 years, dated for 4, faithful the entire time. We're both 46 now, healthy, decent looking. Everyone says we're just the cutest couple together. We have two kids 10 and 13. For the most part, we get along well, very little fighting, we laugh a lot around the house, but at the same time, I feel extremely lonely in my marriage.

We have pretty much zero intimacy in our marriage. I have a high sex drive, she has a non-existent sex drive. We have not slept naked together in over 14 years, not even a single night. We have "quickie" sex maybe once every two months, but no kissing is allowed. I miss making out terribly. She says she does not like to kiss. I've tried for years to set the mood, almost always the imitator. Now, after years of rejection I stopped initiating, I just can't handle the rejection anymore. She's been to the doctor about this as well as counseling, nothing has helped to increase her libido. 

In addition to this, she has not worked in 13 years, until recently she started working part time, maybe 20 hours a week for just over minimum wage. 

I work full time and have a 45-minute commute each way, so I'm gone for 11 hours a day. Many times I get home and run out the door to kid activities and I'm away from home for up to 15 hours at a time. I also have a part time job running a little home business to bring in a little extra money. 

I also do almost 100% of the cooking and cleaning. I've become very resentful over the years that she doesn't help, and she's a slob. I'm constantly the nag who is telling her to clean up her wrappers, empty food containers, dishes piled at her desk. I'm also the one who runs the kids to most of their activities while my wife stays home and watches TV. 

I'm tired of being a man-slave with no reward, like "what's in this for me?" We've been to counseling off and of, the last one said there wasn't much more she could do until my wife decides she wants to do something about this. That was three years ago. 

I've had a dream of retiring at age 55 ever since I was 16 years old, and we're now debt free with a substantial savings and on track to retire early. She has never contributed a dime to this substantial savings, nor has she ever contributed to any household expenses. She's never mowed a lawn, she's never cleaned a bathroom. How I let things go on like this for so long, I don't know.

So, I'm once again at the point of contemplating divorce, but doing so almost assures I give up my lifelong dream. Her bitter divorced friends always tell how they got judge to issue permanent spousal maintenance as well as 1/2 of all assets. This scares me. Either way, I'll have 8 years of child support too.

I feel like we're too gone to save our marriage, we don't do anything together or even have common interests anymore. She's totally fine with not doing stuff together and thinks everything is okay. When we've discussed this before, she promises to do better, but it never happens. I'm tired of broken promises and tired of being lonely while supporting her carefree life.

If you were me, how would you go about things? Is my view all skewed? Maybe this is how marriages really work, I really don't know. Any feedback/recommendations welcome.


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## asdfjkl (Sep 26, 2015)

Hello scooterM,

I cannot give you an advice about how to work things out with your wife. The way you describe her, she seems to be pretty uncontributing. You have recognized this problem, that is a start.

In respect to financials: Yes, loosing a lot of money is hard. But I have had the same resentment when I started considering seperation. By now I do not care about the money any more. You still have 20 years to recover from the blast. Since your house is paid, you will not be looking at a total loss. May be a delay, but I believe that your happiness is worth more than the money you might be loosing.

If you should and can rebuild your marriage is beyond my experience, so please do not take the lines aboveas an indication that you should leave. I am just trying to express the fact that money will not buy you happiness.

Regards

asdfjkl


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

asdfjkl said:


> Hello scooterM,
> 
> I cannot give you an advice about how to work things out with your wife. The way you describe her, she seems to be pretty uncontributing. You have recognized this problem, that is a start.
> 
> ...



^^This^^


You are going to take a financial hit if you divorce. If she hasn't worked for your entire marriage lengthy spousal support and half of your assets including retirement is usually a given. 

She will get the same deal if she decides to leave you BTW. So you should just do what you need to do to be happy today.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Sloth Definition:

Any of various slow-moving, arboreal, edentate mammals of the family Bradypodidae of South and Central America, having long hook-like claws by which they hang upside down from tree branches and feeding on leaves, buds, and fruits, especially.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Sorry for your situation.

Your wife has long hook-like claws that latch into your ongoing good and forgiving nature.

Her idea of being a housewife is upside down to the behaviors that other wives in the world have...... 180 degrees apart from any rational concept of WIFE.

She feeds on whatever you bring home and cook for her.

How does it feel to be a sex-starved and a well worn but cognizant, Doormat...Eh, Mr. Door-mouse?

Run, Forest, Run

Talk to your Buds, put on a fresh pair of Fruit-of-the-Looms, and Leave.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Have you two ever been to counseling?

Regarding alimony, if you're in a state like Texas, she'll play hell getting as much as a dime of it unless she can prove disability!

And since you have aptly shown that you are the one who is the most demonstrative in the kids activities, you should file for custody and possession of the domicile for as long as they are in high school!

Let her move into a one BR apartment!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

OK, I can't judge about the lawn thing since I've never done that either (my dad wouldn't let us growing up), but why has she never cleaned a toilet????? Why does she feel entitled to that?

My advice, go away for 2 months and let her see what it's like to handle everything. You don't have to call it a separation, but maybe tell her you need a 2 month break so she has a clue what all you're doing for the family. Stay with a friend. 

Maybe this is terrible advice, but this woman needs a major wake up call. 

On the other hand, maybe she wants a divorce because she knows she'll make out financially.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She will rape you in a divorce.
I would speak to a lawyer without her knowing and let them help you figure this out.
I would stop doing any cleaning and such for her. She will likely live in filth before she'll lift a finger.

You're getting no affection, withhold it from her, too.
I would also see if I could get her working more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Let me share a little secret, scooter. Divorce is expensive, but so very worth it!

Happiness is worth far more than money - and I think you'll do alright financially even if you divorce. However, if you wish to mitigate the impact, reduce your income now, and wait a couple of years before divorcing her, to reduce spousal support. A couple of years later, you can ramp back up, and by then you may have met someone who is truly wonderful for you.

My ex was greedy, and wanted more than she was entitled to legally or morally, even though I made her very generous settlement offers. I waited her out, and got laid off from my lucrative job. She got far less, then. But, I'm HAPPY, and met the true love of my life after ditching the ex. I'm financially stable now, a few years later. I may not retire early, but I'm HAPPY - because I have a wonderful relationship and someone who loves me and truly care about my happiness as much as I care about hers. That's something money can't buy.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Marital warfare may be your friend here. You may not fix your marriage but she will finally start seeing a changing marital landscape...

Not a 180 per se, more some way to legally keep her on her toes.


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## scooterM (Apr 4, 2016)

We've been to counseling a few times, the last time she was told it was a wake up call for her, and basically get off her butt. I've wanted her to get a real job, there is no reason she can't. I agreed that she could be a stay at home mom early on, but my youngest has been in all day school for 7 years. 

Why has she never cleaned a toilet? I have no idea. she hates cleaning and would rather live in a huge mess than clean it. It gets to the point where it drives me crazy and I do it for my own piece of mind. We have a double vanity in our bathroom, I actually used blue painters tape to draw a line down the middle, and I keep my side nice and clean while her sink gross the counters are covered in various products. And the bigger deal is I want to teach the kids how to be responsible adults, and this is not a role model. My oldest has told me that he's embarrassed to have people over because of the mess, but I can only do so much. asking for help works sometimes, then she'll get distracted and never comes back to finish the job.


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## scooterM (Apr 4, 2016)

I should add too, that she's a good, kind person. No substance or gambling abuse. If she were a real b**** or had other issues, this would be easy, but because she is such a nice person to so many, it makes it difficult.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

She sounds like a lazy, entitled princess. That doesn't make her bad, but it sure doesn't make her good.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

A happy life is worth any loss you take financially, It sounds like while you have tried all you can she doesn't give a crap. Probably because she thinks you won't leave.


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## scooterM (Apr 4, 2016)

Thanks for all your feedback folks... Change is hard for me, especially big change. Probably why it's taken so long to get to this point.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

scooterM said:


> I'm interested in getting people's opinions about my marriage and if I should stay or go.


Go


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## RosaParks (Jan 4, 2016)

Scooter, 

((((Big Hugs))))

What does she contribute to the marriage, family, and household? She doesn't work, clean, cook, do yard work, run kids around, enjoy sex . . .

What does she do with her time & what are her hobbies? Does she exercise? Is she depressed? Is she overweight? Help with homework and school projects? Laundry? Care for extended family? Does she have health issues? Is she involved in charities, PTA or church work? Does she spend time on her computer? Does she shop excessively or spend money?

You mentioned watching TV . . .what else? What a shame that your kids are too embarrassed to have friends over because of the mess, especially after you have worked so hard to pay off the house and have earned the ability to retire early. 

My heart breaks for you. And yes, change is hard. Blessings.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Sorry friend but this is your fault. She just didn't become a slob over night or any other things you described. It's been like this for a long time and you let it slide and rather than open your mouth and say something. 

Now you have a two headed monster your dealing with. She's lazy in the living room and lazy in the bedroom. What you need to do is this. Let her know that your at the end of your rope and if she can't get her ass moving and help out then let her know that the marriage is circling the drain and it's up to her to either save it or let it go down the sewer.

When you cook, then make it for you and the kids. If she says something, then you let her know that if she can't contribute the she can prepare her own. Stop picking up after her and let her know that if she's home all day then you expect her to do her share and keep the house in order. I'm not talking about sparkling clean but presentable and let her know what the kids said about how they feel embarrassed and don't want to ask their friends over. 

The problem is you let it go on too long and old habits are hard to break. One thing you can do is let her know in a way thet she fully understands that your at the end of your rope and it's time for her to either sink or swim.


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## scooterM (Apr 4, 2016)

RosaParks said:


> Scooter,
> 
> What does she contribute to the marriage, family, and household? She doesn't work, clean, cook, do yard work, run kids around, enjoy sex . . .
> 
> What does she do with her time & what are her hobbies? Does she exercise? Is she depressed? Is she overweight? Help with homework and school projects? Laundry? Care for extended family? Does she have health issues? Is she involved in charities, PTA or church work? Does she spend time on her computer? Does she shop excessively or spend money?


She's healthy, a little extra padding, but not much. She helps pack backpacks in the morning and make lunches for the kids (they are in middle school). She does drive the kids to appointments during the day if they have them, but that's just the occasional teeth cleaning, braces check, etc. Occasionally she'll do laundry, but just tonight I did three loads of my own clothes so I have enough for work. Her primary thing is computer games, binge watching Netflix, and reading. She's not involved in PTA or other activities. She's pretty much a self-proclaimed homebody. She does take good care of our dog. No other real issues that would prevent her from working or being a housewife. I do most of the grocery shopping, but she does the Costco runs during the day.


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## scooterM (Apr 4, 2016)

6301 said:


> Sorry friend but this is your fault. She just didn't become a slob over night or any other things you described. It's been like this for a long time and you let it slide and rather than open your mouth and say something.


You're probably right, I've enabled this. When we do discuss this stuff, her response is usually something like "you knew I was a slob when you married me." Which, technically is true, but we were in our 20's and I didn't think of the long term impact. 

I have said lots, in fact just last week, the kids were off school on Friday, so I made a list of the tasks to be done and left it on the kitchen table. The kids got all their stuff done. She didn't get any of hers done. When I asked her about it, she just said she had a really busy day watching the kids. Well, the kids are old enough now that they don't need watching.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

In response to your original post, stop doing it. All of it. No cooking, cleaning, or catering to her.

In order to do that, you will have to put up with things being less than tidy.

I think it would be good for both of you.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## scooterM (Apr 4, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> In response to your original post, stop doing it. All of it. No cooking, cleaning, or catering to her.


If it were only that easy. Seriously, she doesn't cook unless it is EasyMac or frozen pizza. I need to eat and the kids need to eat. How do I cook something and exclude her without looking like an A** to my kids?

And seriously, if the house went 2 months without cleaning, I could not stand it. She would not notice, or care. She'd just switch to paper plates went he real ones ran out. Trust me.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You've lived with this situation to the point you're the problem.

I suspect you're not going to do anything about it now either except talk.

If I were you I'd start making my own life without her.

Get a good looking young chic to do some of the housework.

If you're really serious get a lawyer and file.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

scooterM said:


> If it were only that easy. Seriously, she doesn't cook unless it is EasyMac or frozen pizza. I need to eat and the kids need to eat. How do I cook something and exclude her without looking like an A** to my kids?
> 
> And seriously, if the house went 2 months without cleaning, I could not stand it. She would not notice, or care. She'd just switch to paper plates went he real ones ran out. Trust me.


Excuses to stay where you are.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

scooterM said:


> If it were only that easy. Seriously, she doesn't cook unless it is EasyMac or frozen pizza. I need to eat and the kids need to eat. How do I cook something and exclude her without looking like an A** to my kids?
> 
> And seriously, if the house went 2 months without cleaning, I could not stand it. She would not notice, or care. She'd just switch to paper plates went he real ones ran out. Trust me.


Have you ever actually done it?

It is funny the excuses we will reach for to avoid changing ourselves and instead attempt to change others...

ETA: Looks like I am not the only one that sees excrement in this post...

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Have you ever asked her if she feels lonely and rejected, too?

I am guessing she feels judged by you.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

To a certain extent this sounds like my mom. We had a housekeeper and she never worked a day in her life. She did do the laundry, dishes and make dinner, so she wasn't a completely waste of space. Still, I probably would have divorced her, and I love her.

It's totally not worth it. The sexlessness alone ain't worth it (I've been through that). The laziness alone isn't worth it. This woman doesn't love you. She treats you like you are her parent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@scooterM, as others have already said, you've made some serious mistakes in your marriage. You married a woman who by your (and HER) admission is a living, breathing slob; you accepted a sexless marriage for the better part of your marriage; and you've accepted your wife's disengagement from the family. Of the three main points, I think the only one that has a chance of being fixed to your satisfaction is the sexless marriage. 

Why not the other two? Well as someone else who CHOSE to marry a man who is a slob, I'm here to tell you that there's nothing you can do to "fix" her natural definition of acceptable cleanliness. As per my IC's advice, you bought a Ford Focus expecting it to handle like a Ferrari Testarossa. Not.Gonna.Happen. You can accept her slobbishness and work around it, or you can leave her, but you won't change her. If you choose to stay married, then my recommendation is to hire a cleaning service to do the heavy cleaning once a week. Is it a lot to ask of someone? Yes, but consider the cleaning service, and your day to day cleaning and cooking efforts, the cost to retiring at 55. 

Second, you accepted a sexless marriage. This has been going on for the better part of your marriage. You've done counseling and it hasn't worked. It's time to take a serious look at yourself. I'm not blaming you for the lack of sex in your marriage, but are you absolutely sure you've done everything to guarantee you are the best man you can be in your marriage. Have you read Love Languages and His Needs, Her Needs? Before you decide the financial hit is worth taking, make sure you've given it the ol' college try. 

Lastly, your wife is not living her life if all she is doing is playing online games, zombie-ing out to netflix, and living vicariously through others on Facebook. The question is why does she do this? My recommendation is to NOT compete with these passive activities. Ask yourself if you are living a life worth living. Participate in hobbies, get active, get out and do fun stuff. Do not depend on her for you happiness. Make your own happy with your kids.

Having said all of this, it's your decision to stay or go. There are risks and consequences to both decisions. If you stay, you MAY end up putting tons of effort into 'fixing' the relationship and may not be successful. You'll have wasted more time being unhappy. If you go, you WILL end up splitting half the assets with your wife, paying C.S. (and possibly alimony). You won't be able to retire at 55 but you won't have wasted time being unhappy. Tough choice.

instead of focusing on the cleanliness of the house, I recommend you start a thread on how to fix the intimacy in your relationship. You will get advice that might actually help.


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## scooterM (Apr 4, 2016)

Lila said:


> @scooterM, as others have already said, you've made some serious mistakes in your marriage. You married a woman who by your (and HER) admission is a living, breathing slob; you accepted a sexless marriage for the better part of your marriage; and you've accepted your wife's disengagement from the family.


Her messiness didn't used to be this bad, but if we had lived with each other prior to getting married, I think I would not have gotten married. We used to have an awesome sex life, but it faded after kid #2.

I agree on her not truly living life, but she's happy with the way it is and enjoys her homebody life. I have lots of hobbies and she encourages me to go out and do them. It's just not as much fun as doing these things by myself or with friends when I'd rather be doing them with the person I love.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

scooterM said:


> Her messiness didn't used to be this bad, but if we had lived with each other prior to getting married, I think I would not have gotten married. We used to have an awesome sex life, but it faded after kid #2.
> 
> I agree on her not truly living life, but she's happy with the way it is and enjoys her homebody life. I have lots of hobbies and she encourages me to go out and do them. It's just not as much fun as doing these things by myself or with friends when I'd rather be doing them with the person I love.


Trust me, I know what you're dealing with in regards to the messiness. I too dated H for 4 years before marrying. We didn't live together until we got married. The 1st year was the worst. I thought we'd divorce then. I fought the good fight but in the end, I accepted I would be the housekeeper (and the career woman, and the mom). It's the price to staying with my husband. Here's the thing. ...I clean and cook when I feel like cleaning and cooking. I'm rather neat but have given up on spotless. I also cook whatever I feel like eating that day. He knows not to complain. 

Have you tried just doing it your way and treating her like a fixture in the house?


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Stop enabling these lazy piece of ****s. Seriously. They are likely to be depressed, but to not try one bit at all around the house? Are you kidding me? Dump the house. Live in a motel. Seriously. Why the hell do you have a house if they aren't willing to put in the effort.

Honestly, you need to give an ultimatum of you better get off your lazy ass or I gtfo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Give her a few things to do like make supper each day. Clean bathrooms once a week. Initiate sex once a week. Don't pile it on. Just get her doing some things.

Tell her that if she doesn't get these things done, you will start taking away things. Netflix gone. Computer gone. TV gone. Books gone. Phone gone.

When she doesn't do her jobs. Take things away. Don't give them back until you see real change.

If change doesn't happen, then divorce. It will cost you a bunch, but it will be worth it.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You see yourself as having two choices. Put up with it, or get a divorce. Each of these choices has big drawbacks.

There is a third choice. Do for her to the level she does for you and excersize your rights as a human.

Example, don't cook for her, don't clean her clothes, don't shop for her, eliminate netflix, put a dead bolt on the bathroom door and don't give her a key.... Come up with a new set of rules and live by them:
-- Benefits you provide need to be earned
-- You give only to the level that she gives
-- You remain a committed father to your children.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

Go. Divorce. Financial hit will be devastating but you will be happy.


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## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

Have you tried to go to counseling with her? If you think that will help then go for it. If not, then maybe a legal separation will work for now, which is a good step before a divorce. Legally separating will give you time to figure out your financial situation as well and to see if she is going to be bitter about things. Will give you time to make a plan.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Sorry but I have to concur that you brought this on yourself, you allowed this. You may have known she was kind of a slob when you married, but there is a big difference between slob and choosing to be completely useless. There is no excuse for her to not have a full time job, your kids are both well into full time school age. Since she does nothing at home, she needs to go out and earn a salary so that she is contributing to the household. That needs to be step one. Honestly, I don't think there is anything you can do to make her change, short of actually starting a divorce. I know that sounds harsh but it may be the only thing that shakes her out of this state. 

What is her excuse for the sexlessness??


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## BBF (May 21, 2015)

I plotted out a end game. Does the slob princess follow family finances? If not, move disposable funds into non traceable assets. Collector coins are good. Bits and drips at a time. If she watches money, be more creative...develop a "gambling" habit and "lose." Again "losses" can go to nontraceable assets--collector or gold/silver coins. If you don't have a trophy car, get one.

If she has started a part time job,encourage that. A judge can impute full time income.

Plan for a two year period with benchmarks and evaluation points. Perhaps you can set her up so she "strays." Then dump her lazy azz and nasty attitude when she in the affair fog. 

Think creatively for an exit because the rest of your life won't be worth living if you stick with this entitled, selfish b!tch.


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