# I don't want to reconcile. I just want the kids.



## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

I won't traumatize you TAM readers with my sad tale of marital woe. It will suffice to that I am at the beginning of the divorce process, i.e. only one court appearance thus far.

I feel I am gaining strength being separated from my wife. I have found a peace I have not known in some time, and I am generally feeling optimistic about my future. The exact opposite can be said for her. She looks haggard, tired, and seems confused during our brief conversations. In court she simply cried.

However, the CA courts have awarded her primary custody of our 6 kids as she as a SHAM, I mean SAHM, and I only get to see them every other week. It seems having a uterus in CA is the primary criterion for determining where children go. I do not have a place big enough to "keep" six kids, and my soon to be ex won't "swap" places for the weekend. Even today she wouldn't let me take them to church. They just stayed home and did nothing; while she went to the gym to play racquetball.

Thus far my 17, 15, 13, and 11 year old have said that they want to live with me. That only leaves the 7 and 5 year old to "decide" for. My soon to be ex and I had talked about keeping all of our kids together for their well being, so by her own admission that would give me all 6. However, when she said that she was under the illusion she would get the kids.

I have spoken to my partners at work and they have said I could adjust my schedule to accomodate my new parental role. The house has been chaotic in my absence, and she is frequently gone, abdicating her motherly duties to one of our teenagers. This simply is unfair, unsafe, and unacceptable.

I could go on further and say the material condition of our home has decayed as well i.e. it's a friggin mess. My soon to be ex is obviously depressed, and has been for sometime. I worry about her and I would like to see that she gets the proper treatment, but I no longer have any power in her life.

I have basically placed the situation in God's hands, but I know that there must be something proactive I can do to help change this situation. I have already "leaked" my intntions to two of her closer friends, as I don't want her to be surprised by my actions. My problem is I know she is going to "break" and soon, but I fear my heart is too hard to take her back. I just don't believe I can love her like a husband needs to love his wife after all she has done. Suggestions?

LIL


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## OneMarriedGuy (Apr 5, 2010)

Sorry, if it is in the courts own hands, the womand get the kids unless she is a major drug addict REFUSING treatment or a physical sbuser REFUSING treatment.

She has the house and space going for her as well.
You have the 17 and 15 year old wanting to live with you (usually they don't let under 14 give an opinion).

Sorry, did your attorneys tell you to move out or was that prior to your being in contact with the attorneys? Usually it is rather easy to get a cheating spouse to be the one to move as they don't like being told they are a "cheating spouse".

I wish you luck and quite understand your frustration. Of course talk to your attorneys as to your real chances and whether the current house siz is a big deal or not - I'd guess it would be one more thorn but if you've little chance anyway ...


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Thanks for your response OMG. For the record two deputies actually told me to move out while I was at work. I think they called it a temporary restraining order. 

My soon to be ex has fabricated tales of long-term marital abuse. In court the best she could come up with to substantiate her claim was that I am "gone a lot" and "sarcastic". Unfortunately, both are true, but in my opinion fall well below the mark of abuse.

However, my soon to be ex continually cried and acted in an erratic manner that the judge deemed as evidence of "chronic emotional abuse". Oh I don't know judgey-poo, I won't pretend to be a lawyer if you don't pretend to be a Dr. How about this Mam, might the court consider the possibility she's friggin nuts?

I guess not. To make matter worse, I wasn't particularly well behaved in court. I seem to remember a moment where I stated the need for legal reform before health care reform. I believe the word I used was "abomination".

The judge was plain in telling me that had I behaved better she would of dropped the RO, as my wife's claim were "minor" by court standards. It appears in court only the judge can have hubris. "F" that. The system is broken. The courts are evil. 

I disagree with the statement about the cheater leaving OMG. In CA at least, Adultery doesn't matter. Here they call it irreconcilable differences. 

LIL


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## OneMarriedGuy (Apr 5, 2010)

Oh I get that the courts don't care about much of anything, I was just saying alot of times the cheater will leave just to be away from anybody calling them a cheater.

Seems she has had some help along the way and either coached or whatever for court. Yet on the other hand I don't really know the real history of your mariiage. I once said that if I told the current story in all honesty from my point of view I would get tons of sympathy and advice here. Funny thing is if my wife told her story in all honesty she would get the same. Unlike you however we are trying to work things out and progressing decently.

Yes your frustration didn't help you. While yes our courts ARE in worse shape than our health system, they don't want to here it. They are more concerned with expedieance than justice.

I can only wish you good luck and hope that you will get some counseling to figure out what went wrong on your side so that next time your relationship is likely to last longer and that you can relate and be there to help your kids through this whether they are with you or with mom.

Best of luck


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## Help239 (Oct 20, 2009)

LIL - I can sympathize. The best thing you can do is seek legal counsel. I did and I was able to get my RO overturned due to lack of evidence. I was plenty upset in court but never spoke a single word - that was my attorney's job. 6.5 months later and I've been in the house for 3.5 months and have 50-50 custody of the children. I am also in Cali - it can happen, you just have to play the "perception" game. The truth means squat.


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## morningdew (Jan 14, 2010)

LIL I can only wish you the best and maybe a good lawyer will help you thru this. It's great to know that your older kids wants to be with you because they sees and knows are things really are.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Help239 said:


> LIL - I can sympathize. The best thing you can do is seek legal counsel. I did and I was able to get my RO overturned due to lack of evidence. I was plenty upset in court but never spoke a single word - that was my attorney's job. 6.5 months later and I've been in the house for 3.5 months and have 50-50 custody of the children. I am also in Cali - it can happen, you just have to play the "perception" game. The truth means squat.


Thank you Help239 for your advice. You are exactly right on all fronts, and your story was encouraging. I need to abandon a bit of principle and just "play the game". Two things I have always said I'd never spend money on: 1) prostitutes 2) lawyers
Wait, I guess there is only one thing I've always said I'd never spend money on.

My partners think I'm a friggin idiot as well, Help239 for going it alone. They have repeatedly pointed out that our corporation has used lawyers on several occasions to execute various contracts on our behalf; so I am inconsistent more than principled.

Ultimately, she has more money than I do as her family is fairly wealthy, so she hasn't really gone hard and fast after my income. However, it's safer not to gamble with my future as she currently seems to hate me. She is also being stubborn as he// with custody, so I guess she really is forcing me to put all of my chips in.

The problem I'm having is her family is now funding her lawyer, and I can't even begin to compete with their deep pockets. In light of this, part of me thinks financially it might be better to just go it alone, and learn to "shut up" in court. 

LIL


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## OneMarriedGuy (Apr 5, 2010)

Lawyers and judges have a club so to speak. Without one you are not paying in the club and will not be privy to the club benefits.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

What the hell you don't have a lawyer?


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Atholk said:


> What the hell you don't have a lawyer?


I will be blatantly honest; I am a lying sack of sh*t. I do want to reconcile. I do want my family back. I have an extension from her lawyer, so I still have another 2 weeks to wait for a de'tente, before I am forced to defensively file.

I know her actions, and she's hurt. It doesn't matter to her that most of her wounds are self inflicted. I have played the nonchalant tough guy role to the hilt. I have recently added being gracious to my list of insults, and it friggin drives her nuts.

She is starting to regret her decision, but she doesn't know how to come back without loosing face. To make matters worse, I have fairly effectively sold the notion that I am fine with "moving on". It is definitely obvious to her at this point that I have far more options than she does.

To better illustrate this point; one of her "single" racquetball friends has begun to regularly facebook me. She has invited me out for coffee and expressed an interest in "being there for me" during this emotionally tough time. I have politely declined all offers thus far.

I know she periodically checks my e-mail, so I have left it in the ether to torment her as it were. My wife has begun to earnestly clean the house; which is a first in a long time. She has also started to cook again.

She also called me Hun tonight when I dropped off my son after JuJitsu. Furthermore, she has begun to regularly violate her own RO with frequent; almost daily direct phone calls,and even invited me into the garage tonight to go through some of my stuff.

So Atholk that is why I don't have a lawyer, because I really can't fathom a divorce. Maybe it's friggin biochemical, maybe it's my religious doctrinal "hang ups", maybe it's love; I don't know. She is the only woman I have ever been with, and for whatever reason I still feel as if I'm part of her. So there you have it Atholk, I'm a sentimental p*ssy right? That's ok, pride heals faster than soul does.

LIL


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## Help239 (Oct 20, 2009)

Wish you the best LIL - I only wanted to reconcile for about 45 days after my wife filed. I'm sure she regrets her decision too and is too afraid to come back. Difference is, I don't want her back. It's been over 6 months now and she just keeps digging a deeper hole for herself.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

The last post that your wrote was your most "real" post! I could feel your emotions. I understand where you are coming. You can't imagine your life without her. 

The main thing is to still allow her to come around but protect yourself in the process. It's hard to be a mind reader.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> The last post that your wrote was your most "real" post! I could feel your emotions. I understand where you are coming. You can't imagine your life without her.
> 
> The main thing is to still allow her to come around but protect yourself in the process. It's hard to be a mind reader.


Sadly, the part about her being mentally unstable is very, very, very true. I spend my whole day helping people I hardly know, and the one person who needs my help the most, I can do nothing for...frustrating.

LIL


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Take a look at this old thread now collecting dust:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/7606-trying-gain-momentum.html

The last post in that thread was particularly profound. I know a lot has transpired since then, but a lot had built up before then too so not all hope is lost.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

LIL - I am very confident that you would kick the crap out of the average guy your size and age in a fight. You might not even break a sweat. Between your conditioning and martial arts training - well - no brainer. 

Why is it you would have legal conflict without aid against a trained specialist who has done nothing but practice resolving marital disputes for decades?

I am also going to make a fairly pointed observation. Good lawyers who are brought in early into a deal typically write clear contracts that PREVENT disputes later. 

I am not a lawyer but strenuously object to the negative way you describe them.




lastinline said:


> Thank you Help239 for your advice. You are exactly right on all fronts, and your story was encouraging. I need to abandon a bit of principle and just "play the game". Two things I have always said I'd never spend money on: 1) prostitutes 2) lawyers
> Wait, I guess there is only one thing I've always said I'd never spend money on.
> 
> My partners think I'm a friggin idiot as well, Help239 for going it alone. They have repeatedly pointed out that our corporation has used lawyers on several occasions to execute various contracts on our behalf; so I am inconsistent more than principled.
> ...


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

swedish said:


> Take a look at this old thread now collecting dust:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/7606-trying-gain-momentum.html
> 
> The last post in that thread was particularly profound. I know a lot has transpired since then, but a lot had built up before then too so not all hope is lost.


It is interesting to reread those words swedish; especially now. I am not kidding when I say my wife is not mentally well. She isn't. Today she threw everything in my office at home away . My unit pictures, ball caps, martial arts stuff, professional paintings of the boats I'd served on, piece of the Berlin Wall, and even my signed Ronald Reagan picture. 

She even tossed the shadow box she had compiled for me several years ago of my deceased father. It had photos of him as a child through adult, diplomas, and the brochure from his funeral. It was all that I had that belonged to my Dad. Who does that to somebody?

She told me that she couldn't think in my office. I told her I would never ever did that to her no matter what. She threw away most of my past. It's evil.

This afternoon she said she wants my 17 year old to come and live with me. This is Ms. court order who wouldn't even let me take them to church on Sunday because it was her weekend, so they sat home and did nothing.

Like I said I do want the kids, she is unstable, but I also worry about her. If I can only choose one; I'll settle for saving my kids, but it would be nice to rescue them both.

LIL


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Mem her lawyer isn't interested in solving anything. Hell, he isn't even interested in the truth. He appears to be only interested in running up a tab. Sadly, from my experience this seems to be more the norm than the exception with lawyers, thus the contempt.

LIL


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Wow. Throwing out your office stuff--really just wrong on so many counts. Were you able to retrieve it? I hope so. Doesn't change the fact that she was trying to deprive you of all that you value--as with the kids, of course. 

I can only imagine how hard it must be for you to maintain an even keel, and God bless you for what you are able to do in the name of your kids. "These are the times that try men's souls." I think the words apply here. Best of luck in rising to the occasion.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Yes, she may be mentally unstable with some anger and resentment. She will try to push your buttons. "You can't have the kids" and "You can have the kids." She is likely to flip flop on many things just to push you.

It's frustrating to say the least. She will have to work on her problems by herself. You can't save her. 

Still remind yourself of your blessing daily. This will help keep you afloat! YES! You have blessings.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Well I have until next week to defensively file, but it looks like the clock is going to strike midnight on this marriage. Because of my strong and enduring faith in humanity, I had given her one final chance to reconsider. Sadly, her answer was both irrational and untrue. At least she is consistent.

I had dropped off a check with my 15 year old this afternoon because she was out shopping. He was having his piano or saxophone lesson or some such. It was hard to tell because I was outside of the house. Anyway, for the sake of convenience I gave him a check to give to her. 

About two hours later, I returned from a meeting with my oldest son's recruiter. She was in our drive way when I dropped my son off, so I gently inquired if she'd gotten her check. She said no, and then started going nuts because I had given it to my 15 year old without first placing it in an envelope. BFD. My checkbook doesn't come with envelopes. 

To make matters worse, she told my oldest son he should go live with me today. That's the second kid she has "kicked out" of "her" house in the last two weeks. I told her to strongly rethink her path because if she wants to "part out" the kids, I already have verbals from our 17 ,15, 13, and 11 year old puppies. That leaves her with only the 7 and 5 year old. I then told her to go and find a job because she'll be paying me child support soon enough.

She then started going off about my jack Russel. While I enjoy a tangent as much as the next person, I failed to connect the dots between the topics.

I feel better knowing I have at least tried. I have honestly exhausted all of my options, so I think it's best just to move on. Sometimes your best just isn't good enough. I can live with that. I hope she can.

LIL


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## Help239 (Oct 20, 2009)

LIL - You will be see-sawing thru these emotions for months to come. In the end, you have to be good with yourself about the path you decide to take. 

I know I am. I waited until the LAST day to defensively file. Even though my stb-x is now making some moves to "be nice" and such, I am in no mood to "pretend" that what she has done to this family is anything but senseless. Keep your chin up.


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## whattodo17 (Jan 12, 2010)

Ok, that was downright dirty that she would throw something away from your father! I thought my situation was bad.....I believe you have me beat! You win! 

What's sad is, she won't get help until SHE wants help. It can't be for anybody else but herself or she won't take anything that is said seriously. Hopefully she will snap out of whatever depression or funk shes in.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Believe it or not, LIL. . .you are sort of roundabout "following my advice" of negotiating that I prooffered at teh beginning.

She's surrendering the first child. . .accept her surrender graciously and continue to work on an agreement with the other kids. 

Remember also. . .yeah, verbals from the kids count for something but it's up the courts to decide what's best. If there is a compelling reason to not go with you, they may not get to decide. And a compelling reason may be they don't want to deny the younger ones an older siblign experience (and vice-versa).

The prevailing psycho-legal viewpoint on that is that our siblings are the longest relationship we will all have throughout our life. Our parents we may know for 40 years. . .our children for 40 years. . .our siblings we may know for 70-80 years. . .so seperating the 17 year old from the 5 year old may not be viewed without some trepidation.

Remember. . .it's just a business transaction involving child-rearing, property division, and income splitting. Every point is negotiable. Let her decide what she can handle and pick up the slack from what she can't.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Thanks for your input scannerguard. I hate to take my 17 year old away from the rest. He'll be gone soon enough in the Army, so I don't want to deprive him of his last few months with his brothers and sisters. Selfishly, it would be the easiest thing in the world to do, but for his benefit I can't. 

He also is a great buffer to have in the house; as in essence he has most of my beliefs and a lot of my mannerisms. I am also sadly sure that this is also one of the reasons his mom would like to see him go.

Today, I am sitting at my desk in my clinic preparing to defensively file. Wednesday is my absolute deadline. It is a surreal experience. The only thing I can actually liken it to is putting your dog down. You've known it's been sick for awhile, but you've kept putting it off because you still love the thing. In the end though it really is best for the animal. 

I've told her I'd accept another extension if she'd like, but apparently that's not on her agenda. I've done all I can. I don't feel the hurt I used to feel. I just know this wasn't the best way to handle this. Every problem she has will now be worse, but in the end you cannot save people from themselves. Sometimes you can only save yourself. 

LIL


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## peacefully (Nov 13, 2009)

LIL, I have been keeping up with your thread and I am really feeling for you. 
My situation was different, as we have no children, however I know how hard it is to have to make the decision to actually END the marriage. 
I went back and forth for a couple of years before we finalized the process.
It is like putting an animal that you love down, that is a great analogy. The love has not left, but the relationship is too sick to survive and it's cruel to keep it on life support, as no one is able to really like that, that is not living.
I tried to reconcile with my ex on a couple of occasions and it was always the same outcome, a few weeks of happiness and relief (a sort of honeymoon period) and then the same problems that led to the break down of the marriage would re-surface, as we were just the same two people going back into the same patterns.
It is a painful and terrible process and I think it will take me years to really be able to move on freely and in a healthy way.
I don't have any advice for you, I just wanted you to know that I really feel your pain and where you are coming from.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

I think you need a lawyer.

If she is as mentally unstable as you think she is, I believe she will destablize further once the divorce process really starts. Leaving the kids with her may well be a safety concern.

I think the acceptable options are; stay married but she must agree to seek mental health help, or divorce and you seek full custody.

Both are hard roads to walk. But I can't see you ultimately being happy with her wrecking the kids if she keeps them.

Lawyers don't do their own health care... why would a doctor do their own legal defense?

Right now she just doesn't seem safe. I wouldn't sleep next to her. Your martial arts tend to be less effective lying prone in your sleep.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Well tomorrow I am scheduled to defensively file as my extension is just about ready to lapse. After I finish that, I will drop off a retainer payment for my lawyer. Thanks for your concern and advice Atholk. I will do what I need to do to protect myself as well as my children. Let the games begin.

LIL


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