# Is this appropriate behavior between my spouse and ex co-worker?



## winniecooper (Nov 16, 2011)

Hi everyone, I am new to these forums and would appreciate feedback about my situation. I will try to be clear and keep this short. I am struggling with feelings of jealousy and I have no one to talk to since I am embarrassed to go to anyone IRL. Thank you for reading this. 

Problem: I recently came across some behavior that raised my suspicions about the appropriateness of a "friendship" between my DH and a female ex co-worker. I love my DH and want to trust him. I want him to have meaningful friendships, but I know the perils of male-female friendships and how they can go too far. I feel in my gut that a line has been crossed and I am afraid that if things continue in this manner, the situation may turn into something unhealthy. I also am working through my feelings about setting appropriate, non-oppresiv/unfair boundaries with members of the opposite sex.

My question: Is it appropriate for my husband to call an ex female co worker (or for her to call him) after business hours/at night, while he is out of town. Is is okay for them talk "business" for nearly an hour at a time sometimes? Are these the warning signs of a EA on either members part? 

Background: 

This lady became co workers with my DH this past summer; they've known each other maybe 5 months. From the time he first met her, he began praising her professional skills on numerous occasions. He and her have bonded over their distaste for that firm's work environment. He has always been willing to disclose their communications to me. He has never done anything before to warrant my distrust of him. 

DH has since stopped working for that firm for almost 2 months now, but he and this lady keep in touch through numerous emails, chats, and phone calls. Everything is business related as he and her like to network amongst other business types. She is married and has kids. She also lives several states away. 

Exhibit A: 

She called him about a month ago during the day, distraught and crying because she had been reprimanded by her superior over her work performance. This struck me as odd when DH told me about it. When I asked him why she wasn't going to her husband about such personal/emotional issues, he said she told him that her husband was out of town and she was really stressed out about her familial duties as a wife and mother. Since DH and her had established a bond over their negative work environment, he was in a sense her "confidant". Keep in mind though, that they were no longer co workers when this phone call occurred. 

Exhibit B:

After this call, I had a dream about a week later that he admitted to having an affair with her. I know it was just a dream, I know, it seems silly to give such a passing fancy much thought. I figured since DH has always been faithful and has never shown distrustful behavior with respect to other women, I brushed this off as anxiety on my part. I didn't mention the dream to him, but now I know I should have.

Exhibit C:

A couple weeks go by and I am still bothered by him mentioning his relationship with her. DH still talks about her on numerous occasions and will mention how he needs to call her for work reasons. Feeling jealousy growing in my heart about them, I decided to check his cell phone call records. I figured I would find only a reasonable amount of calls during business hours. 

Well...

When I analyzed his phone usage for last month, I checked the top ten most called numbers and her's came up as the fourth most called number with a total time of almost 200 minutes (highest total duration for that billing cycle and DH calls a lot of different people). I felt this was strange and so I looked at the times and the durations of each call. Most of the calls were during business hours (fine), but they would talk for upwards of an hour at a time. But one call was at 9PM at night when DH was out of town for work. This call didn't last long, but it seemed like too late to be calling another ex coworker. 

Exhibit D:

I went and checked the unbilled minutes usage for this month on his line and noticed two weeks ago that he had tried calling her several times over the spanse of a few days. The calls were in the evenings (one was at almost 9PM at night) and a couple were while he was traveling out of town. Then she called him one evening while he was out of town and they talked for almost an hour. 

I was so hurt when I saw this. I feel this is innappopriate for them to be talking at night for extended periods while he is not at home. Again, I am confused about this because he keeps saying they only talk about business, but I wonder why he's even thinking about talking to her at night when he is out of town. 

I did confront him about my concerns and he said he had no romantic feelings for her and that he would be more careful not to let this turn into something else, but i still feel jealous. I'm confused. I feel that maybe we should articulate specific boundaries with these things, but i don't want to be a nag or the jealous wife type. 

Again, thank you for reading this, and again my question is:

Is it appropriate behavior for my spouse to make after business hours/late night phone calls to ex coworkers while they are out of town away from their spouse? I need feedback so I can construct some useful boundaries.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Yeah, not good. I see this as inappropriate at best and probably now into the infaithful area. Not talking about full blown cheating yet but without knowing the conversation who can tell where this is leading? He should nix this friend completly in my opinion. He should go full NC with her. I had a workplace EA and this does not look good at all.

Ever since my EA I have become very conservative in this area. I am now against having close opposite sex friends like he has. She is a colleague I guess. But we are not talking about an occasional facebook comment. They actually have a relationship of some sorts where needs are being met.

Do you have access to his email / FB?

I did not realize I was in an EA until I went through withdrawal. So what he says is of little solice. This stuff is chemical. It feels ok.


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## winniecooper (Nov 16, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Yeah, not good. I see this as inappropriate at best and probably now into the infaithful area. Not talking about full blown cheating yet but without knowing the conversation who can tell where this is leading? He should nix this friend completly in my opinion. He should go full NC with her. I had a workplace EA and this does not look good at all.
> 
> Ever since my EA I have become very conservative in this area. I am now against having close opposite sex friends like he has. She is a colleague I guess. But we are not talking about an occasional facebook comment. They actually have a relationship of some sorts where needs are being met.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your feedback, Entropy. 

I do have access to his FB and emails. He said I can look through them at any time. He was upset and said I was reading into things when I first mentioned my concerns (we got into a full scale yelling match too), but he apologized. I think I will ask him to limit his calls with her to only business hours during the weekdays. 

And I think I should read though the contacts they have had more so to put my mind at ease. I believe he has been unintentionally encouraging her to rely on him too much emotionally. He was trying to get her another job with the company he is currently with. 

I too feel like these event are not right. I think maybe he and I have been too naive about this.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

There does seem to be reason for concern here. It sounds like she is pursuing him and is actively reaching out to him for emotional support. It doesn't matter if it's for work or home life, emotional support isn't a business relationship, it's an emotional relationship,

It's ok for people to have work relationships, it isn't ok to have emotional relationships when married.

Is hubby a nice guy who feels good when helping things? It sounds like she recognizes this and is pursuing him. Him being the nice guy doesn't want to say no, and doesn't realize where this can lead.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

This topic seems to be prevalent over the past few days. I will tell you that when I was in the corporate environment for almost 20 years I worked in female dominated industries.

I had and still have great relationships with many of these women. Some are married, some are single. Some are mentors and teachers and there are a few that I still rely on for input on important career decisions. All that being said I have never come close to crossing a line with any of them. I have had long conversations with them regarding professional issues but that may happen 2 to 3 times a year.

My wife has never had a concern with any of them because I am confident she knows they have her back and would rat me out immediately if I ever got fresh. I am not really a very smooth guy. It would be a disaster if I ever did something like that.

Share your concerns with your H and if he shrugs it off be concerned. Ask him how he would feel if the tables were turned. If he says it would be no big deal he is a liar.

My wife is respected in her field and many of her subordinates dominate our time. It bothers me but they are all female so it is a bit different but the frustration is somewhat similar.


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

Almost sounds like you're reading a script on my EA. 

It's not good. When she called him instead of her husband, that's a HUGE red flag. 

Have you asked her husband what he thinks of their friendship?


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## winniecooper (Nov 16, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> There does seem to be reason for concern here. It sounds like she is pursuing him and is actively reaching out to him for emotional support. It doesn't matter if it's for work or home life, emotional support isn't a business relationship, it's an emotional relationship,
> 
> It's ok for people to have work relationships, it isn't ok to have emotional relationships when married.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Shaggy for your reply.

I agree that this has turned into something else entirely not business related. I think I will ask him talk to her about these boundaries on my behalf and tell her that things are going to far. 

He is really nice, handsome, helpful, smart, articulate, compassionate soul who loves to help others. He is an amazing man. I am crying right now because he is such an awesome human being and I feel bad about my reaction. Again I am confused.


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## winniecooper (Nov 16, 2011)

HerToo said:


> Almost sounds like you're reading a script on my EA.
> 
> It's not good. When she called him instead of her husband, that's a HUGE red flag.
> 
> Have you asked her husband what he thinks of their friendship?


Thanks you for your reply, HerToo. 

When I mentioned her calling him and crying, I said that was wrong. He didn't think it was because they were friends and she was lonely and didn't have anyone to turn to. 

I asked him if he would be uncomfortable if I called a male friend and cried to him about work troubles/being lonely instead of going coming to him as my husband. I think it got him thinking.


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## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

I find this topic and thread very interesting.

It is easy to see how an EA is not appropriate and can lead to more.

From what you describe, there is a good chance the relationship is inappropriate but I can see the possibility that there is nothing to worry about.

I think men and women can be friends only.

I am a little unclear on the definition of an EA but I imagine it's when you say something to someone you wouldn't say in front of your spouse ?

At my workplace there is some flirtation (it appears to me at times married people seem to need this) is any time some flirts an EA ? 

If so virtually everyone is having one IMO.

I don't know if this would apply to your situation but if this person is a friend of your husband could you suggest that the three of you meet for a drink or something.

If he is reluctant to do that this would be a warning sign if he agrees then you can check things out for yourself and see what you think.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

winniecooper said:


> Thank you for your feedback, Entropy.
> 
> I do have access to his FB and emails. He said I can look through them at any time. He was upset and said I was reading into things when I first mentioned my concerns (we got into a full scale yelling match too), but he apologized. I think I will ask him to limit his calls with her to only business hours during the weekdays.
> 
> ...


He is probably not trying to decieve you. He is decieving himself. I though we were just friends in my EA. That is how it begins. The chemicals make it feel ok, even when it is not.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I would say that the majority of folks engaged in an EA don't even think it's an affair since it's not physical


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Looking to heal said:


> I find this topic and thread very interesting.
> 
> It is easy to see how an EA is not appropriate and can lead to more.
> 
> ...


No while an EA can lead to inappropriate, unfaithful and / or cheating behavior an EA is about an emotional bond. It manifests in the brain with the oxytocin and dopamine chemicals.
Oxytocin being the chemical that we get when we are close to someone. Dopamine when we start becoming romatically involved with someone. One sets the stage for the other.

What she has found are signs of an EA. Even if there has yet to be unfaithful comments it is inappropriate in its nature as a bond has formed. Once a bond has formed the EA takes on a life of its own. Very subtle things start to happen that can cross into being unfaithful. Unfaithful may be just sharing things about your marriage with another that should be between the spouses only. It for sure involves sharing feelings one has for another. An EA evolves from innocence most of the time. Sometimes there is a predator. Sometimes it is just mutual infidelity but mostly it is having poor boundaries. One can meet another needs as a friend. That is fine, but past a point it is way more than friendship alone. He is meeting needs of hers not as just a friend but as a man. She is leaning on him instead of her husband.

If she was a man would he be doing this? Ummm ... no.


Oh and yes, I agree I think the workplace os fertile for EAs. They are way more common than folks realize. But when you see a lot of texting, emailing or phone calls it is obvious. Not a close call.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

You are right to worry. Assuming that your husband is telling the truth and they are having marathon phone conversations about the lousy work environment, that is still an excellent basis for starting a relationship.

A Careerbuilders survey estimated that 40% of all employees responding had engaged in an office romance. That's because they're bonding first, which is powerful.

It's good that this woman is out of state and no longer a coworker of your husband. But that obviously isn't slowing down the phone conversations.

It's good that you talked to your husband. But you also need to snoop. Start checking your husband's phone. If he's deleting phone logs or text messages from her, that's bad. Put a voice-activated recorder in his car or wherever he's most likely to talk to her. If he has a smartphone, put spyware on the phone so that you can monitor his calls. Be wary, since he knows you're checking his usage, of him buying a prepaid cell and using that. Or of his using Skype, or a secret email account to communicate with her.

You need to go all out to protect your marriage.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Dear Winnie,

Tell him and tell him soon, before anything more happens...if you can stop this one in its tracks, do it, or you could be headed for potential disaster. Keep on top of this.


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

My AP called me for a similar reason because she was lonely too. Granted, she is divorced. But that didn't change my role in the EA. It's not about her actions, it's about his actions with her.

When my AP called, I expressed my desire to be there right then and there to hug and comfort her. 

You're not an idiot. You're on to something, and you know it. AND IT SUCKS!!! 

Get working on it and get that relationship to end now. And I mean END. NO CONTACT!!! 

Call her husband and talk to him. He needs to know what's going on (facts, not speculation). Let him decide on how he wants to react.

God, I hope I'm dead wrong on this.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> I would say that the majority of folks engaged in an EA don't even think it's an affair since it's not physical


:iagree:

Nailed it!


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Winnie,

This is all you need to do. Tell him it bothers you very much, and that you prefer he not communicate with this woman anymore. No email, phone, FB, etc. Tell him the anguish you are feeling. Don't accuse, just be honest with your feelings - give him the details of your anguish. Ask him to say this to this woman:

"Friend - my wife is uncomfortable with our relationship, and out of respect for her and our marriage, we have to stop communicating. I know we've been friends and colleagues for a few months now, but I have to focus on my family at this time."

If he is willing to do this for you and actually does it, then you are free and clear and your husband is this great guy you think he is. 

But, if he pushes back hard, you have a problem. If he gets defensive, put your foot down. If he persists after that, you have a problem. If he says okay, but then later you see they are still talking, you have a catastrophe.

Unlike others on this board, I am AGAINST opposite sex friendships when one of the spouses isn't an equal part of it. Couples can be friends with other couples. Couples can be friends with one person, together. But when one married person is friends with an opposite sex person and at least one spouse isn't also involved, it is a recipe for disaster.

Because in this case, just wait until you have a fight about something. He'll call his friend and confide personal details about your marriage, because that's what friends do. And then she'll comfort him, they'll meet for lunch, etc, etc, and it just asks for an affair to start.


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## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> No while an EA can lead to inappropriate, unfaithful and / or cheating behavior an EA is about an emotional bond. It manifests in the brain with the oxytocin and dopamine chemicals.
> Oxytocin being the chemical that we get when we are close to someone. Dopamine when we start becoming romatically involved with someone. One sets the stage for the other.
> 
> What she has found are signs of an EA. Even if there has yet to be unfaithful comments it is inappropriate in its nature as a bond has formed. Once a bond has formed the EA takes on a life of its own. Very subtle things start to happen that can cross into being unfaithful. Unfaithful may be just sharing things about your marriage with another that should be between the spouses only. It for sure involves sharing feelings one has for another. An EA evolves from innocence most of the time. Sometimes there is a predator. Sometimes it is just mutual infidelity but mostly it is having poor boundaries. One can meet another needs as a friend. That is fine, but past a point it is way more than friendship alone. He is meeting needs of hers not as just a friend but as a man. She is leaning on him instead of her husband.
> ...


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## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

When do these chemicals get released for the first time in an EA ? 

I knew about them as far as PA but never really thought about it in EA context.

If an attractive woman walks by or man does this produce chemicals ?

Emotional bond is a little vague but I think I understand.

I do think some women I know tend to prefer the company of men others of women and I think the same holds true the other way around.

Does this matter ? Maybe not

This topic is fascinating to me, it's where everything gets started so good boundaries and rules seem critically important.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I don't know. Seeing that he's only known her for 5 months, then I'd say it's an EA.

My husband and I both have opposite friends that we've had for years (before we even met) and we talk probably once a month or twice a month to them for 30-60 minutes at a time to catch up. I see nothing wrong with this.

However, there's no feelings of romance between us and our opp.sex friends. We don't tell them things we don't tell each other and we know about the friends. 

If this bothers you, then it's a problem.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

I'd say it is highly inappropriate. Do his male business associates call him crying?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Looking to heal said:


> When do these chemicals get released for the first time in an EA ?
> 
> I knew about them as far as PA but never really thought about it in EA context.
> 
> ...


It is fascinating. I did not see this so much until I fell prey to it myself and realized how powerful this really is. Having an understanding of what is at play with proper boundaries can help one from messing up.

Biological basis of love - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Married Man Sex Life

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin -- Increasing trust and losing fear. Oxytocin evokes feelings of contentment, reductions in anxiety, and feelings of calmness and security around the mate. Beta stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine -- Dopamine is commonly associated with the reward system of the brain, providing feelings of enjoyment and reinforcement to motivate a person proactively to perform certain activities. This can be a result of sexual attraction / romantic feelings. Alpha stuff.

So a friendship is all about trusting, losing fear, empathy and so on. So a woman is said to need to connect before they are ready for sex. So then after they have connected in a friendship, then they may be more open to enjoying the dopamine effects that come with attraction. 

This may just be a simple as having ones needs met and really looking forward to seeing that co-worker tomorrow. Wow they really look nice today. Love that smile. They are always glad to see me. I really miss them when we are apart. Hey I will text them and see what they are doing. I can't get enough of them. They make me feel good. What a great friend they are. I wish my spouse was so much fun to talk to. I will ask to meet them for coffee Saturday morning.

In no way am I implying that all friendships go down the EA path. Having good boundaries can deal with much of this.


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## winniecooper (Nov 16, 2011)

Thank you again to everyone for providing me your perspectives on this situation. You have been immensely helpful to me and my marriage. 

I want to post the following for anyone out there who is in a similar situation and may be looking for a clear direction in which to navigate similar circumstances: You can come out of this and become closer to your spouse. This may be an opportunity to grow the bond of trust you have with them. Be diligent, and be honest with yourselves and each other. If you spot something that alarms you, don't ignore it before it's too late and damage is done. I feel that if one handles these situations in an appropriate and mature manner, it will draw you closer to your spouse and you will be better off in the long run. 

Since we as a couple have never been in this territory before, we both see this as an opportunity to learn and grow closer together. Up until now, we have always assumed that trust existed between us. This has tested our bond of trust and we wish to strengthen that bond. We've also talked through this situation and have set some clear boundaries regarding friendships/business relationships with members of the opposite sex with which we both feel comfortable maintianing. 

Resolution:

Considering that he has been extremely honest and transparent through all of this, and there hasn't been enough time for these circumstances to fully blossom into something more, we have agreed on the following plan to deal with the situation so that he can show me he is trustworthy and so that I can show him that I trust him:

1. He will cease all phone communications with her. I don't mind if they email about business matters (they don't chat anymore). But, I feel that phone calls are too personal at this point considering that an emotional bond exists. Also, since this was the main medium through which things were allowed to become inappropriate, we feel it's best to cut that tie upfront and altogether. We hope this will send her the signal that he's no longer making himself emotionally available in a personal capacity whenever she needs him. 

In general, we have decided that for both of us it is inappropriate for either spouse to be making or receiving phone calls to/from a member of the opposite sex outside of business hours (Mon - Fri, 9AM - 5PM only acceptable times for phone calls). We both agreed that any time outside of normal business hours is personal time and we need to protect it from intrusions. 

In the event that a coworker needs to contact us outside business hours, we can only take the call if the spouse is physically in the room via speaker phone or included in the call by three-way communication. That way either of us can hear what is being said and if we feel uncomfortable with any aspect of the conversation in question we can request the spouse discontinue the call immediately. If either of these circumstances cannot be met (physical presence or three way call), said spouse must discontinue the call immediately and continue the call during designated business hours. We agreed that this will be applied equally to both of us. We both feel that emails and chats are not an issue at this point. But we agreed to retain the right revise and include stricter boundaries in the event that these mediums create a future environment that could foster an EA with a member of the opposite sex. 

2. I asked him to no longer inadvertently provide open doors to any emotional bonding between him and her. This means no inquiries about her personal life in any communication from here forward not matter how innocent they may seem. If she mentions things about her personal life, he can be polite, but he needs to steer and keep the tone of all non-phone communication in a professional business capacity only. He agreed that if she needs emotional support, she should seek her husband or a close friend/family member and not another man. I refuse to let anyone use my husband as an emotional crutch, just as I refuse to let anyone use me as emotional crutch; DH expressed that he feels the same way. 

3. Since I am sort of frazzled emotionally right now and thusly my judgement is clouded, I have told him that I will trust his perception of the context of this friendship from this point forward now that he is aware of the non-appropriateness of past communications. He doesn't think she will actively pursue him if he distances himself from her. 

Please note, when I asked him if he would be willing to discontinue all contact with her, again he was fine with this and offered to tell her not to contact him due to the circumstances. I don't think he is trying to justify what has happened. My gut says he's being honest with me. 

4. In the event that she continues to try and contact him despite him distancing himself from her and/or she shows any of the following cues, we agreed that he should discontinue all forms of contact with her and that I would call her and tell her what I have found and why I feel her behavior is wrong and that I would tell her to cease all communications with my husband:

- If she continues to call him on the phone even after he doesn't use the phone to contact her. I told him I would monitor his cell phone records to see if she or he is calling the other. He said he was comfortable with me doing so. 

- If the frequency of communications increases without phone contact or the tone of the communications is excessively personal in nature. 

- If she in any way, shape, or from tries to reinsert herself in any part of his work life. Period. She has picked up freelance work with the parent company of my husband's new firm. I told my husband that the nature of their past communications has opened doors for her to move closer to him in a work sense (he had been trying to network her amongst some of his business contacts in order to help her get a new job). 

I told him that given the context of the situation, this bothers me deeply and that I want nothing to do with her in any actual business capacity. He reassured me that he and her would in no way be in close enough proximity to each other for anything to continue. I did tell him that I was not comfortable with him retaining her as a business colleague but instead I wished for him to treat her as a business acquaintance due to the nature of the circumstances. We agreed that this would too allow distance to be place between him and her within their business relationship and hopefully prevent any inappropriate situations from arising in the event that they cross paths in the future. 

Conclusion:

From this point forward, we hope that this dies off without things becoming anymore dramatic. We are aligned and prepared to go into this with a clear action plan. We both want to move forward and learn how to avoid possibly setting ourselves up for potential EAs in the future. Granted, emotions have run high for both of us these past fews days, we feel that the only way to navigate such perilous circumstances is to identify problem areas now and have a unified plan of action in place to protect our marriage covenant. 

Again, thank you all for your words of wisdom.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Sounds like you've set up some good boundaries. Good work; I hope everything works out for you. My only caveat would be to make sure that emails and chats don't become a problem... but it sounds like you're on top of it.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

*Resolution:

Considering that he has been extremely honest and transparent through all of this, and there hasn't been enough time for these circumstances to fully blossom into something more, we have agreed on the following plan to deal with the situation so that he can show me he is trustworthy and so that I can show him that I trust him:

1. He will cease all phone communications with her. I don't mind if they email about business matters (they don't chat anymore). But, I feel that phone calls are too personal at this point considering that an emotional bond exists. Also, since this was the main medium through which things were allowed to become inappropriate, we feel it's best to cut that tie upfront and altogether. We hope this will send her the signal that he's no longer making himself emotionally available in a personal capacity whenever she needs him. *In general, we have decided that for both of us it is inappropriate for either spouse to be making or receiving phone calls to/from a member of the opposite sex outside of business hours (Mon - Fri, 9AM - 5PM only acceptable times for phone calls). We both agreed that any time outside of normal business hours is personal time and we need to protect it from intrusions. 

I think the only way this will work is if he specifically informs her that she is cut off completely - as in NO contact. Business, personal, or otherwise. Don't you fear that H could slip back into it? Why hasn't the OW been told that she's crossed the line with respect to his marriage? Did you inform OW's husband?

I think you and your husband have a great attitude toward this, and you have really great ideas and solid boundaries, but in this one aspect, lines look a little blurred.


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## winniecooper (Nov 16, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> *Resolution:
> 
> Considering that he has been extremely honest and transparent through all of this, and there hasn't been enough time for these circumstances to fully blossom into something more, we have agreed on the following plan to deal with the situation so that he can show me he is trustworthy and so that I can show him that I trust him:
> 
> ...


Yes, I am fearful that this is going to continue, but I am so emotional about it that I am second guessing myself right now. 

At first I asked him to cease all contact with her and that I would call her and tell her what I found and that I wanted him to be present and confirm to her that the relationship had become inappropriate and needed to stop. He agreed. 

But...

He does seem genuinely affected by this and he has said he is willing to do what it takes to show he is not interested in pursuing this and that he wants me to trust him. He said he sees that it was wrong of her to call him upset and crying, but I kind of get the impression (again, my emotions could be clouding my judgement here) that he thinks that her actions are what is inappropriate and not so much him trying to contact her. He has been just as active in this as her, if not more so. Also, I'm not sure he sees this as infidelity. He called it a fluke. Maybe it is, IDK. 

He did let me have access to his email account and I noticed this morning that this last Friday evening he emailed her private account around 8PM (9PM her time) that he wanted her to call him this weekend if she had some free time so they could "touch base". This sent me into a furious fit because I feel like even though he says he's not pursuing her, it seems like he has been actively trying to keep her in his life after he switched jobs, for whatever reasons. I have only just confronted him 2 days ago, but I am still upset by all of this and I am still confused. One minute, I feel like I should call and tell her off, the next I calm down and just want it to go away. 

Lastly, one of the reasons we decided to not engage in a confrontation is because she is in town this week for work and I feel bad that she might be upset if I confront her. Gah, this is all messing with my head so much. 

I'm gonna give it a week and see how I feel. If in my gut is still bothering me, I think I may talk with him about discontinuing all contact. I am trying to be reasonable in this. I still feel like I am crazy for being upset here.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

winniecooper said:


> Yes, I am fearful that this is going to continue, but I am so emotional about it that I am second guessing myself right now.
> 
> At first I asked him to cease all contact with her and that I would call her and tell her what I found and that I wanted him to be present and confirm to her that the relationship had become inappropriate and needed to stop. He agreed.
> 
> ...


OK - I can understand you being emotional...it's only natural. But he contacted her after you confronted him and mutually agreed that he would not be calling her anymore?

I don't think I need to tell you that he has to cut it all off. All contact. No more emails, texts, no reaching out, nothing. You will go crazy wondering what he's doing, mark my words. I've been there! 

Last year, before we were married, H and I had an issue with a woman he used to date. In the beginning, I didnt' even know that he dated her, as he had downplayed the relationship and told me they were just friends. I now know that the reason he did this was so that he could continue to contact her from time to time, 'as friends', trying to fly under the CandieGirl-Radar. It didn't work. Every time the name came up, I got an uneasy feeling. He repeatedly denied anything more than friendship. I thought I was going crazy! I only discovered the truth discussing this with a mutual friend of ours, who inadvertently spilled the beans. Well, if I wasn't mental before the discovery, I was after. It practically killed me that he had lied, and even though I found out the true nature of things a year ago, it still hurts to think about it. So while I have not (yet) experienced an EA with H, this hurt a lot, and it started a chain of events that have led to my having zero trust and being suspicious of everything he does. I say 'yet' because I'm on high alert due to several 'white lies' by H, and I currently have reason to suspect a possible EA (with someone else from his past).

I fear that if you don't knock this one on the head right now, you will set up for further heartache in the future. There are many things I should have done differently with my H - hindsight is 20/20! I just hope we can make it.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Oh and Winnie? Don't be worried that OW will be upset if you confront her. You are the victim here - she is very lucky to be swanning off unscathed. Cow.


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## winniecooper (Nov 16, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> OK - I can understand you being emotional...it's only natural. But he contacted her after you confronted him and mutually agreed that he would not be calling her anymore?
> 
> I don't think I need to tell you that he has to cut it all off. All contact. No more emails, texts, no reaching out, nothing. You will go crazy wondering what he's doing, mark my words. I've been there!
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing this, CandieGirl.

That last email I mentioned was sent before I confronted him. So while we are just working through this, I am still finding things that are upsetting. Again, part of this is me being emotional right now. 

I still feel deep down that he should not contact her again at all and that I need to confront her. I need to sort through everything. I am thinking that I should read through every communication they have had, just so I can be mad and then move on. I am vacillating I think. I also think that after a few days I can sort of clear my thoughts. I figure if she calls again, i may just have to confront her outright. 

Thank you again for you patience with my thread and you caring suggestion.


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## winniecooper (Nov 16, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> Oh and Winnie? Don't be worried that OW will be upset if you confront her. You are the victim here - she is very lucky to be swanning off unscathed. Cow.




Yes, I just don't want to fly off the handle if I contact her. I may email her and him as a reply to their recent email communications and point out what I think is wrong with their "friendship". I am so tempted to disclose this to everyone we mutually know (me, him, and her) because I am at times livid. 

I am trying to handle this right. My husband doesn't think she is trying to turn this into an EA, and she didn't call him/email him last weekend even though he asked her to call so who knows. 

Part of me almost wishes more had happened (GAH!) so that I wouldn't have to feel like I am overreacting, cause that's how I feel at times.


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## Needingsomeadvice (Oct 14, 2011)

Looking to heal said:


> I find this topic and thread very interesting.
> 
> It is easy to see how an EA is not appropriate and can lead to more.
> 
> ...


It is so very easy to gloss over this and say there is nothing wrong, and there may well not be anything wrong here but it certainly seems to me like it is the beginnings of something more. All affairs start somewhere and this relationship has all the red flags. 

Emotional attachments do make you blind to so many things. That is why a male-female friendship is so difficult to pull off, especially when there exists some level of attraction. The temptation for something more will always exist in these sorts of relationships. 

I don't think you are overreacting. This is an odd relationship and will, in my mind, lead to more over time if left unchecked. They have developed a connection, common ground and this very easily can grow into so much more. I know for a fact, your hubby would freak out if you had this type of relationship with a man you once worked with.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

winniecooper said:


> Thank you for sharing this, CandieGirl.
> 
> That last email I mentioned was sent before I confronted him. So while we are just working through this, I am still finding things that are upsetting. Again, part of this is me being emotional right now.
> 
> ...


Good plan. I wish I had your patience! In the past, I would tend to react too quickly to suspicious situations - and end up in heated arguments. This time, I'm trying to play it cool and see what happens (with a bit of good old fashioned snooping).


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

She knows what she's doing and confronting her will do nothing but make you doubt yourself. 

I had an honest email convo with the psycho hose beast who tried to lure my H away. At first glance her emails appeared fairly nice. They're just good friends, yadda yadda yadda. However, further inspection revealed that she was contradicting herself and making small jabs at me. With one comment I set her straight, but I went on to let her "know" that our conversation made me comfortable with their relationship. Then, I told my husband that he either removes the ***** from his life as much as possible or I'll remove myself from the marriage. He did, then she became desperate and completely showed her hand, removing any lingering doubt my H had to her intentions. 

Your H needs to go NC with NO mention of your conversations. She needs to believe it was his choice 100% or her sick mind will believe she can weasel her way back in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Bravo. Well done.

I will add that when I had my work related EA it was my wife who did exactly as you are doing. I was totally clueless. An idiot. But my wife got my attention. I went through withdrawal and realized how foolish I had been. I came out of it with a whole lot more respect for boundaries and relationships. I also saw that my wife deeply cared for me or she would have kicked me off the abyss. She had every right to do so. I can honestly say I did not set out to be unfaithful. But I did get involved in what turned out to be an inappropriate relationship that was headed the wrong way. My wife acted, as you have. Your husband is a fortunate man.

I believe a loving and caring spouse looks out for their partner and the marriage in the manner that you are doing. It is not about blind trust, it is about love and willing to engage to protect each other and the marriage. I learned the hard way. My wife forgave me early on. I did not fully forgive myself for many years to come. I realized though that to be the husband my wife deserved I had to forgive myself. Anyway, we are better than ever and I actually am trusted more now than before this hppened. Maybe because I used up my get out of jail free card and / or I have learned for this and am much the wiser.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

I don't think it's an overreaction. If something is making you uncomfortable, I think that a good spouse would take steps to correct it.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

I think you're handling it appropriately. You would certainly be within your rights to quash all contact completely. But this is probably exactly what your husband has portrayed it as. Two coworkers developing into friends and talking on the phone a lot.

The fact that we all know that this will likely lead to an EA doesn't mean they knew that, or that it already had gone to an EA. A big red flag in cases like this would be that your husband is open about talking to this woman a great deal, and then suddenly he stops mentioning her altogether and starts guarding his phone.

So I would say give the business-only communication time to cool this off and continue to monitor your husband's email and phone. If the communication continues, step up your intervention. If you can't find any evidence, but your husband is acting squirrely, be wary.

Good luck.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

on a side note, anyone else find it funny that we have a winniecooper and an Arnold (aka Kevin) posting here?


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> on a side note, anyone else find it funny that we have a winniecooper and an Arnold (aka Kevin) posting here?


I'm not following...


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## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

They are characters from some old 1980's TV show. The wonder years I think.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Kevin Arnold and Winnie Cooper


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

winniecooper said:


> I am thinking that I should read through every communication they have had, just so I can be mad and then move on. I am vacillating I think. I also think that after a few days I can sort of clear my thoughts. I figure if she calls again, i may just have to confront her outright.
> 
> Thank you again for you patience with my thread and you caring suggestion.


I do think you should read the emails and discuss particular phrasing with your husband. When I was working through this with my wife she pointed out phrases that hurt her and we discussed them. We hung different contexts on the same words and through that I learned more about her and have added some new boundaries to avoid when communicating with women. It was indeed a growing experience for the both of us.


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## winniecooper (Nov 16, 2011)

meson said:


> I do think you should read the emails and discuss particular phrasing with your husband. When I was working through this with my wife she pointed out phrases that hurt her and we discussed them. We hung different contexts on the same words and through that I learned more about her and have added some new boundaries to avoid when communicating with women. It was indeed a growing experience for the both of us.


I think you're right about this. Considering that my husband has been so forthcoming with information and that he is actively trying to learn from this experience, I am willing to let this go and have us both be the wiser for it.


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## winniecooper (Nov 16, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> on a side note, anyone else find it funny that we have a winniecooper and an Arnold (aka Kevin) posting here?


I had no idea! Too funny! 

I only used that name because it was from one of my favorite TV shows growing up. 



Again, thank you to everyone for being so helpful! I am most appreciative of your perspectives.


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