# Not sure what to put as a title......



## HorribleGuy (Mar 3, 2014)

First of all, I'd like to apologize for what might end up being a long thread, I am starting to type this while having no clue what to say......

I'd like to introduce myself as a Mediterranean guy (English is not my native language, so pardon me for any language mistakes), late 20's, who is, by the opinions of the majority of people in my life, and for different reasons, a horrible guy. I got married to a wonderful girl that loves me so much, and I do love her with all my heart, will always do, but I keep hurting her, all the time.

I really don't want to bore everyone with the all the details, but to give an idea about my situation, I grew up in a culture that does not believe in divorce, family of 2 younger sisters, mum, and a horrible, horrible father that is still torturing my whole family. He kicked my mother and sisters out while I was at university some good 8/10 years ago, at that point my mother and sisters thought I was on his side, so they hated me. All this affected my academic studies, ended up being expelled, and later I confronted him and told him he was wrong, he ended up trying to put me in jail, threw me out, and now he's 'married' (illegally) to another 'lady' half his age, with a poor baby due to arrive shortly.......

My whole life I been told that I was a mistake, that I brought misery to everyone, I honestly can't think of anyone that knew me and didn't wish I never got into their lives, at least once, including my mother and sisters, and I really don't blame them, at all, cause I do realise that everything I do to help ends up hurting people instead, always.

Things got better between my mother, sisters and I after my 'father' tried to throw me in jail as they realised that I wasn't on his side, I lived with my mother and sister (Sounds childish I know, but where I come from, guys live with their families till they're married). I managed to finish a 2 years degree that would qualify me to get a semi decent job, if I didn't graduate in the middle of a global financial crisis anyway.........Long story short, couldn't find a job, I had an extremely high score graduating that qualified me to study the same major I had before I was expelled again, and out of guilt and thinking of it as a 'God's reward' for what my father put me through my whole life, my mother insisted that I'd stop looking for a job with the 2 years degree and join the higher academic degree studies, starting from scratch.......


So there I was, the old boring guy whose at least 5 years older than the oldest student in my class, and as old as some of the teachers........But I managed........And joining a forum to improve my English, I got in touch with my wonderful wife..........I do know that many people will jump in here and think that 'online relationships' don't always end up well, but this has nothing to do with that, it is my horrible, hurtful, super sensitive character that is a problem, and that is what I am in here looking for help for.

I told the Mrs everything about my situation, everything, and I did warn her that I do harm more than good all my life, and she was great enough not to give up on me, even when I gave her every reason to do so, and even when she actually wanted to leave me, but she stayed cause she believed in me, and I will never forget that, and will never forgive myself for all the times I hurt her.

I then told my family that I met someone, and that we're planning to get married, and my mother loved it and thought it was another 'reward' from God, even though she was very sad that I'll end up moving out of the country, but she thought that it will be a better life for me and that helped her accepting it, and with the help of my mother (That is also normal where I come from, father would usually be the one helping of course, but I have a lovely one..... ) and more help from one of my sisters who did graduate and managed to find a job (She did great considering both the family problems and the economical state of the country when she did graduate, and I am really proud of her, and really grateful for her help), so with their help, my wife and I finally got married in a small family ceremony in a local church........

We then started all the paper work for me to get a visa to join the wife (Another bell ringing in people's heads, but no, I really wasn't after the visa, or the money, we used to be very rich when things were better with my farther, yet we were miserable, so trust me, I do know better.......) Anyway, visa granted, and here I am, making her life miserable day after day, and it kills me to know I'm hurting her this way.........

We'd spoke every night for 3 years, the whole length of our relationships, with visits as often as possible, and I did cause many arguments during that, but like I said earlier, she was kind enough not to give up on me, I do have a problem of being a details' freak, I analyse everything too deep, I never let go, I question everything and everyone and always think that everyone hates me, even the poor girl that went through Hell to be with me, paid tons of money, and had to convince her parents who weren't thinking it was a good idea, and that's what I do to her now after all she did to help us be together, to help ME being a better guy and loving me! I just pick on everything that happens, I turn little things into major problems and create situations that I, more than anyone, regret......

It probably is late to ask for help now as she made it clear that she can't live like this, and I really don't wanna leave her, but at the same time, I don't wanna keep torturing her like this cause I do love her, so much.

I do realise that I am a complicated guy with tons of dad issues, family issues, self confidence issues, and many more, but I really feel like I'm completely lost and don't know what to do anymore, even if I'm doing something nice, or something to help, I end up fu*king things completely and hurting people instead, people that I care about and love, very much, and I know it's hard to help with ALL these problems, but any help will be much appreciated........

I think it was a long thread, so I need to thank anyone who bothered to even read it.....


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Your childhood taught you that you're unwanted and "bad" and that people hurt the ones they love. This showed you how unsafe the world is. 

Today, you can find a world that is safe and loving, but it means you have to let go of almost everything you have known about the world. 

This is not easy to do, and will probably take several YEARS of therapy.


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## HorribleGuy (Mar 3, 2014)

KathyBatesel said:


> Your childhood taught you that you're unwanted and "bad" and that people hurt the ones they love. This showed you how unsafe the world is.
> 
> Today, you can find a world that is safe and loving, but it means you have to let go of almost everything you have known about the world.
> 
> This is not easy to do, and will probably take several YEARS of therapy.


Thank you for your reply.....

I never tried to blame my 'misfortune' on anything or anyone else, and it is what I do to people, even the things that I try and do with good intentions that I think would make them feel better, or make their life easier, that ends up hurting people the most, people that I love and care about, so I do agree that my 'childhood' is a main part of my problem, but what I do is causing harm as well, somehow.

I always did think about therapy, but where I used to live isn't really a country that believed in therapy in its modern definition, so smoking was my therapy, and the wife helped me quit for health reasons, and I will always appreciate how hard she tried to help me out of what was a 3, 20-pack-a-day addiction.

I never did mention the idea of therapy to the wife, I did promise her that I will try to be the man she deserves when we are together, and I really am trying, but I don't think I'm trying hard enough, and all the daemons from my past are chasing me whenever anything's said or done, which makes it even harder to try.

I will try and mention therapy if I saw any sign of her willing to forgive me, for the million time, but to be honest, I don't even know how much would that cost here or how to go about it as I only moved here 4 months ago and have no job or health insurance, so hopefully it won't put more strain on her budget, or more waste of her money, cause I'd already wasted tons of her money, and for nothing but bringing misery to her life.

Thank you again for your reply, and sorry for moaning


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

That sounds like a pretty grim history and one that will be hard to get over.

However, from a practical point of view, can you give some examples of what you actually do or say that causes hurt to people? Particularly your wife.


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## HorribleGuy (Mar 3, 2014)

ClimbingTheWalls said:


> That sounds like a pretty grim history and one that will be hard to get over.
> 
> However, from a practical point of view, can you give some examples of what you actually do or say that causes hurt to people? Particularly your wife.


I do understand that giving examples of situations is essential for a anyone to help, but the fact that it's a public forum makes it very hard to share personal situations/information.

But usually it's things like dropping something while helping cleaning the house, or trying to do something the way I used to do it back home instead of doing it the 'local' way in here......

And emotionally speaking, if I said that we aren't doing much together anymore, it comes across as if I'm complaining about her long working hours.......


I know it all sounds like silly things, and they probably are, but I do understand why she gets upset with me, I have NEVER been good with words and I do know that, but I just can't seem to make her happy anymore, and it just breaks my heart


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You need to get therapy not for your wife or your marriage, but for yourself. Until you can love and respect yourself, it will be impossible for anyone else to do that to you too. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Iidoni (Mar 2, 2014)

_(This is a bit long, but I read it and saw a lot of my own experiences looking back at me, hopefully I'll ramble on through a few things that might at least make you feel better.)_

I really resonate with some of this (and 'resonate' seems to be my word of the week, I have no idea why, but I digress...)

I grew up with a difficult father. He never did as many awful things as it sounded like your father did, but he was a functional alcoholic with mental health problems, and he was abusive (largely emotionally, thankfully, but there were times when it spilled over.) He left me with a lot of loose toys in the attic and some of my issues sound very similar to yours.

I've never been able to settle to a degree, which is something that I would never admit if this weren't an anonymous forum. I've never been able to pass one, or even get to the end of one, and I have to reassure you of one thing: you'll get somewhere in life. I didn't even START making any progress in life (or even deciding which direction I wanted to go in) until I was in my early 30s. One of the biggest things that has helped me has been the stability of marriage (although, I should point out that I'm here commenting on a post in a marriage guidance forum, showing that my own marriage is far from perfect.) 

I still don't have a degree, even now, which is something that the bulk of my colleagues don't know (my managers do, I've never lied for a job or to the editors of a publication I've worked for, but I allow my colleagues to wrongly believe that I did, in fact, graduate from one of the universities that I dropped out of). There are ways around having or not having a degree: right now you need a job for basic necessities, but when after those are covered keep trying things until you find one you're good at. Once you've done that, and kept at it for what feels like an interminably long time, you'll get the same status and respect as someone with a degree. It's worked for me.

I also have had the experience of not being able to believe that anyone likes me. I just don't have that ability inside me to meet other people and think they have anything but contempt for me. I know it might not be entirely rational, but it's a thing that's broken inside me and I've never been able to fix it. 

The reason I bring it up is because it has a certain effect on a marriage: it damages the trust and good will, or at least it has with mine. The root of a lot of my own problems is that because I can't believe that anyone really likes me, I can't trust my partner's good intentions. This means I spend a lot of time being controlling, angry and defensive, and I tend to hang onto things until I feel like I've 'won' because I'm always in threat mode. 

I don't know if any of this sounds familiar to you, but it's something that I thought might be similar to your situation.

The final thing I'd like to say is that I've also been on the other side of the visa situation: my wife isn't from the same country as me. I've got some legal training (don't worry folks, I'm not out there working unqualified in legal services!) and it was still hellish to go through the visa process. Afterwards, we had no money and every time my wife and I argued (which was a lot, bitterly, including the first night of our honeymoon where we ended up screaming at each other in a Czech pub) my friends and family would shake their heads and go 'Visa marriage.' It's just the programming that people have in some countries. We've hung in there (so far) and my wife is now an accepted part of the family. It'll happen for you as well. 

My wife took a long time to get a job, and we didn't get any money from the state, first because she was an immigrant, and later because they decided my income was too high. It's been hard, but she's making headway with her own business and it's making a difference. 

As to therapy... if you're in the US, that could be expensive, but might be worth it. I think part of the problem is that it's probably six of one, and a half-dozen of the other (i.e. both your faults, not just you) so marriage counseling might well help, or both of you getting a bit of therapy.

The biggest thing I'm working on at the moment though, is trust, and my ability to trust the motivations of others. I hope it'll help with my marriage because it'll allow me to give up my fear of losing control... and it might do the same for you. 

In any case, it sounds like it's still early days. I've been exactly where you are, and as bad as things are with my other half at the moment, we're better than in those first, bad days and we're getting better. Hang in there.


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## HorribleGuy (Mar 3, 2014)

PBear said:


> You need to get therapy not for your wife or your marriage, but for yourself. Until you can love and respect yourself, it will be impossible for anyone else to do that to you too.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do agree on the concept, partially however because I do know that people like my wife, family (Mother and sisters), and some of my friends do love me, even if I did hurt them whether it was intentionally or not.

The respect side of it may vary though due to different elements that control how people decide whether they respect someone or not.

But I do agree on the concept.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

This book helped me, my therapist recommended it. I hope it helps.

Letting Go of Shame: Understanding How Shame Affects Your Life:Amazon:Books
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HorribleGuy (Mar 3, 2014)

Iidoni said:


> _(This is a bit long, but I read it and saw a lot of my own experiences looking back at me, hopefully I'll ramble on through a few things that might at least make you feel better.)_
> 
> I really resonate with some of this (and 'resonate' seems to be my word of the week, I have no idea why, but I digress...)
> 
> ...


Thank you for 'resonating' with my situation, and you did help making me feel better 

I 'had' a horrible father who was really good in both physical and emotional abuse, the physical abuse was, and unfortunately still a widely accepted part of 'parenting' where I grew up, and I grew to handle that 'alright'; it was always the emotional abuse that was harder for me to take, and it still is as I always feel that what my father, and occasionally mother, used to describe as 'miserable existence' is the reason for all their, and any other problems, and being the oldest child probably added to it as they both felt that having children added to their problem, and it also added to me cause I always felt the need to be the 'parent' for my sisters since our own parents were busy fighting and shouting the whole time, it did however teach me to be independent and be the neat, clean freak that I am, so it did some good to me, in a way......As an adult, and specifically with my wife, the problems always start with her saying something that triggers this guilty feeling of being the miserable existence that causes all the problems, which leads to me shutting down and getting into a defensive guilty mood thinking (And actually believing) that I do nothing but making her feel miserable.......

Before I was expelled, I was supposed to graduate to be qualified to do one of a very few extremely high income jobs back home, but I only chose that major because it was my best interest, not due to its financial reward, I graduated the 2 years degree with a very high score, but I never managed to find a job not back home, or here, and I dropped university for getting married and coming here, and I did that happily, because starting a family was, and still is, more important for me.

Career wise, the wife and I agreed that there would be no point of paying thousands of pounds for complete strangers to look after our kids whenever we'd have kids, and it makes sense that the partner with the lower income stays home, which will be me of course since I'll never manage to make the same money the wife's making right now, and I am totally fine with that, but it's the fact that I still can't find a job so far, which doesn't only mean that I have no friends, but also have no one to even talk to the whole day, and that does get into me sometimes, specially with the wife having to commute for 2 hours everyday to get to her already long hours job, I do try to do almost everything around the house though, and I try and leave bits and pieces (Upon the wife's request) for her to do during the weekend because she loves to do things around the house.

I too 'resonate' with your problem of not believing that you can't believe that someone can love you, or to trust your partner's good intentions, it does sound very familiar with my situation as I always find myself treating my poor wife as if she's a complete stranger that's just using me for something and willing to easily get rid of me, and it all goes back to what I was saying earlier about 'triggers' that take me back to my childhood/early life, and it breaks my heart, it really does, cause I do KNOW that she loves me, and she keeps forgiving me, but I keep forgetting that and keep hurting her, really badly 

The visa situation went relatively 'smooth' in our case I have to admit, maybe due to the fact that we both did look into it very carefully before applying (For almost 8 months we were preparing lol), but it did leave its marks on us, it was stressful to be waiting for the decision (Took almost 2 months, and I was starting to search on appeals lol), and also financially, I (My family) paid for the visa fee, but when I came here it put more stress on my wife's already hard financial situation, which makes me feel even more guilty as it's not just that I can't help financially, but I also make her more stressed with all the arguments 

I'm in the UK, and I think it's even more expensive in here, everything is.......And I'm sure it is both of us, but I am the main reason for 90% of the arguments/situations that occurs, and I think if it came down to marriage counseling while we're making our way to the 4th month of us being together, I'll never blame the wife if she decided to choose to ship me and my heavy baggage home instead........

I think trust is what I need to work on really hard as well, I also need to trust that my wife loves me for who I am and that she doesn't share my father's view of me, or that she thinks that I'm a burden like I always think of myself, and I need to keep repeating that to myself all the time, cause I keep hurting her and causing her pain all the time whenever any of the past daemons start haunting me......

Thank you so much for your input, it did make me feel better, and good luck to you with your own situation


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## HorribleGuy (Mar 3, 2014)

mablenc said:


> This book helped me, my therapist recommended it. I hope it helps.
> 
> Letting Go of Shame: Understanding How Shame Affects Your Life:Amazon:Books
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Will take a look at that, thank you


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

I am sorry about your problems. I too had a difficult father - a workaholic in my case.

As well as working on yourself, consider working on your marriage. Read His Needs Her Needs and the Five Love Languages. It certainly is unlikely to do you any harm ,will leave you somewhat wiser.

Good luck.


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## OptimisticPessimist (Jul 26, 2010)

I understand you had a hard family life in terms of your dad, and as my father was awesome to me I cannot say I relate. I just wanted to acknowledge that im sure it sucks and it is a significant reason for any problems you might have.

I read through your words with one thing in my head: "where is the information about the negative things hes done to his wife?"

"But usually it's things like dropping something while helping cleaning the house, or trying to do something the way I used to do it back home instead of doing it the 'local' way in here......"

Dude, dropping something? That doesnt even warrant a second thought, let alone feeling like youre being horrible to your wife. It sounds to me like you have severe confidence issues, and THAT is what will destroy your marriage- not you being "horrible". Your wife should accept your culture and not condemn you for it...

You sound like youre being a Beta male to me. Some people around these forums believe that some women are attracted to Beta males and not Alpha males, but I am not one of them.

I believe a woman wants a man who puts a FIRE between her legs, but at the same time a man who she respects for what his life represents.

Read this a few times and let it really sink in: *your life has to have value independent of the woman you date in order for her to find you valuable.* 

One way to make your life have value is to have confidence in what YOU bring to the world; what does HorribleGuy bring to the table? Where you are today is a consequence of you making the best decisions you could, and here you are living and breathing. You are the culmination of thousands of years of genetic strategy- OWN that s*** and rock out with your c*** out!

If you want to make your wife happy, tell her early in the morning over breakfast "you are going to be surprised tonight". At lunch tell her "whens the last time I used you for the beautiful piece of a** you are wifey?". At dinner tell her "15 seconds after were in the bedroom Ill be inside you." If she loves you, she'll be dripping!

There are two kinds of sex in a marriage: fu*king and making love, and it takes both for the marriage to work. Why am I talking about sex? 2 of the 3 most popular subforums of this forum relate to sex or the possibility of sex. Sex in a relationship is huge not only for reproductive reasons, but for what it says about your level of confidence. Be comfortable with who you are as a man.

For that matter, do what you can to improve yourself as a man. Hit the gym and get the blood pumping. Read a book youve been meaning to read. Go people watching. Try to discover a new pattern that helps you and your wife be more successful. Create every day a better version of yourself, and change your perspective from one of self-loathing to one of self-respect and c***iness.

Dont be emasculated by our current culture. Rock masculinity because it is a tonic your wife needs... just like you need what she offers.


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## HorribleGuy (Mar 3, 2014)

It's me, again........

I wanna thank everyone that bothered to read my "article" and those who bothered to even reply to it.

OptimisticPessimist, thank you for your input, I haven't seen your post before today, I probably wouldn't like what you'd said if I'd read it back then, but today, and after the few things that's been happening lately, specially in the last few days, I do know where you're coming from, and I know it's true......

I do believe that my wife does love me, or at least the guy that she thought I'd be when I come to live in this country, and I'll always believe that, cause she does. And I also believe that I have tons of "Daddy issues" and "Nice Guy" issues (Great book, thanks for recommending it guys). But I also believe that my wife doesn't respect me, or maybe that I don't rise high enough to meet her standards, and that, I think, is the reason why our marriage is over........Cause no one should ever marry, or even be in a relationship with anyone that they don't respect.......We both made mistakes, and it is time for me to man up and do what I should've done long time ago, leave her alone.

This morning we had the worst argument ever, and it is over, and I can't see how can I "fix" it anymore (Well, more of: I know that the only way to fix it is to leave her alone).........

I went out trying to look for any job today that would help me get some money to get a ticket back home as soon as possible, as I do NOT want to take any money from the "wife" anymore, and my family back home is in a rough financial situation so I can't ask them either (Besides, I won't tell them that I'm going back till I'm actually there).

I haven't found any jobs, and I don't even know if I was doing the right thing by walking into shops/cafes etc. and ask if they had any jobs? I'm in a small town in the UK, if anyone have any recommendation/advice on how to look for a job in here that would be appreciated (I am allowed to work in the UK, I won't be breaking the law by working).

Thank you all for taking the time to read this, and for any help......


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

If you want a job you will need to put a CV together listing your educational qualifications and work history, plus your contact details.

Then by all means go round shops or anywhere else that may have a suitable opening. They may ask for your CV outright or they may say they don't have one, in which case ask if you can leave a copy of your CV in case an opening comes up.

Companies like to have CVs on file; they have to pay a recruitment agency a lot of money to hire someone via that route. That said you should also get in touch with local recruitment agencies and sign up there.

Finally, check out the Job Centre.

What kind of a job might you be qualified for?


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## HorribleGuy (Mar 3, 2014)

ClimbingTheWalls said:


> If you want a job you will need to put a CV together listing your educational qualifications and work history, plus your contact details.
> 
> Then by all means go round shops or anywhere else that may have a suitable opening. They may ask for your CV outright or they may say they don't have one, in which case ask if you can leave a copy of your CV in case an opening comes up.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your response.

The CV route is a long one as it would be a waiting game, I'd rather plan for my friends back home to send me the money somehow as that would be quicker........

I studied electrical engineering for 3 years back home, have a survey degree, then changed major into automotive engineering before I dropped it to be here, and I am a geek so computers and hardware is also something I'd manage to do well, but I do realise that any degree from back home is worthless in here, so mind you just 'studying' without graduating......., besides, I am desperate for a quick job that would give me something like £300 to get my ar$e back home as soon as possible because I just had enough, so did she..........So I will do anything (Legal of course, I'm desperate, not stupid), I was trying to get a car wash job today, but the guy said he didn't need anyone 

I don't have a driver's license in here though, nor a car, not even a bloody bike, so it needs to be close/ish to where I live.......


Reading my own post now gives me an idea about how impossible it is to get a job soon enough.......Failing that, I will keep searching for next week before I call my friends back home, but I'd rather not do that.......

Thank you again for your help......


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

Just ask everywhere, then. Good luck.


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