# Martyr Mothers-Ugh!



## FirstYearDown

My mother was supposed to leave my father recently. She ended up coming back home, because my mother is not brave enough to live without my father. 

She is an old fashioned woman who puts up with EVERYTHING from my dad. I have been disgusted with La Maman for a very long time. What a bad example she set for me as a daughter-She waits on my father hand and foot, even though he cheated on her for years.  Bricks.

I keep a civil relationship with La Maman, because she is also controlling, manipulative and abusive. In fact, I only have contact with her because if I do not, the rest of my family will cut me off. 

Yesterday I called for my father and my mother started her b!tching about how lazy my dad is. She sounds like a bleating lamb "Your father is in the baaaasement and I have to cooooook dinner allllll alone! He didn't even gooooo grocery shopping!" Boo hoo, my poor mom! :rofl:

I refuse to listen to it anymore! It is her fault that my father does nothing; she taught him that he is a king and she is the servant. Don't come crying to me about a dynamic that you created, Mom. She had the chance to leave and she was too weak to walk away, so La Maman needs to shut up and accept her choices. 

Just a rant, but feel free to reply.


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## LovesHerMan

I know that this is easier said than done, but I as get older I find myself having compassion for people like your mother.

She is frustrated that she does not know how to get what she wants out of life. As you say, she is weak, and she hates herself for that.

When she complains about how hard her life is, say, "Dad is who he is," and change the subject. 

Use gentle humor with her whenever possible. My mother-in-law was like this, and my father-in-law would gently tease her and point out how contradictory some of her laments were.

It is good that you are trying to keep a semblance of a relationship with her. When she is gone, you will be glad that you were the better person, and did not cut her out of your life.


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## Runs like Dog

Inside every martyr beats the heart of a tyrant. You knew that, right?


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## FirstYearDown

She is certainly a tyrant in different ways. Her temper is legendary and La Maman thought nothing of beating her children until they bled. My father is afraid of his wife and when he is home, he avoids my mother like the plague.

I can't feel sorry for women who do not empower themselves. La Maman claims that she stayed with my father for her four children, but now we are all adults. She has no excuse now.

She loves to complain about her marriage to my eldest brother and me. We just keep repeating the same line: "You taught Dad how to treat you." I once asked La Maman what she expected me to do about her situation. "Nothing you can do, my dear."

It must be very hard to walk away after nearly forty years and four children. However, it does not make sense to speak seriously about separation, only to reconcile out of fear.


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## FirstYearDown

So I had a talk with La Maman yesterday. I only returned her call because if I did not, she would make a huge deal out of it. 

The poor woman desperately needs to feel relevant in her adult children's lives, especially me because I am the only daughter. It is painfully obvious to her that we are not close and we never will be, so she concocts this very tight mother-daughter relationship in her head. So sad....

She was moaning about my father's infidelity and sneakiness that happened *17 friggin' years ago*. The idiot won't leave, but all she does is complain. What made me laugh inside was when La Maman told me that I should take my father to lunch and talk about how his cheated affected me. "Tell you father that if he does it again, you will move me out of our house and into your apartment. *Even if you and K (my hubby) have to break up over me being there*, you will do it." :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Like all narcissists, La Maman has an inflated sense of her own importance. There is no way *in hell *that she could ever live with us and to think that I would end my marriage so she could do so is hilarious. If La Maman wanted to live with one of her kids, I would tell her to go stay with my unmarried eldest bro. Only stupid parents try to horn in on their kids' marriages. She was horribly abusive to me growing up and I am lucky to be alive-our relationship is far too damaged for the fake closeness my mother wants.

I wish she would hurry up and die already.


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## shy_guy

Since you say this is just a rant, I wondered if I should just listen. It's my nature to try to solve problems, so it's hard to put that mode in neutral. I don't have a good solution, but I have a few things that come to mind as I read this. This comes from my trying to empathize with you, and with your mother. It's hard for a guy to have confidence he can empathize with a woman on a very deep level, but I'm trying to see what possibilities are.

First, I absolutely agree with you not allowing her to move in with you, and I agree with you not entering into the manipulation with her that she was attempting when that was suggested. I'm not entirely sure how old you are - my impression is that you are in your late 20's, but I'm not sure what it is that makes me think that. I'm trying to figure this because I think there is a natural escalation of friction between mother and daughter as the daughter approaches the age where she is ready to move out and establish her own household. I think this is a development of the personality that is necessary for a young woman to begin establishing her own household, and to usher in the next phase in her relationship with her mother. So when I'm reading this, I'm not sure what stage you fall into this. My guess is that you are far enough removed that the friction should have evolved into that new phase of relationship. Your refusing to bring your mother into your own house seems to confirm to me that you have passed through this phase - thus I put you in your late 20's. (You don't have to tell me your age). 

Now, trying to empathize: I think your mother has felt unloved for a very long time. You are seeing her inaction as weakness, and maybe it is, but in her position, I'm not sure she has seen it as this. It may be that she has seen herself as persisting even though she was unloved, and thus she saw herself as being a self-sacrificing mother/wife. Maybe she did this out of a sense of duty to her children without really knowing how that would turn out - she was just doing what she thought was right. It may be that she thought, "Suppose I move out. Then what? Do I have any identity outside of my family? Am I able to establish a household on my own and subsist? Will anybody else love me? or will it just be the same thing I've had here?" I imagine if she stayed long enough, she began to think of herself as someone that is unlovable, and she has become very broken.

If I'm correct in this, then I wonder how a person who thinks this of himself/herself interacts with the other people in his/her life that are important. Does she have an outlet to vent? If so, what is that outlet in the context that your mother has? Is it possible that hurt and frustration constantly built up and erupted from her, and this is the beating you talk about? I'm not saying it is right, I just wonder if this is the source of at least part of it. 

If she feels unloved and unlovable, and thus unable to make her marriage relationship work for her fulfillment, then when the children start leaving the nest, what source of love does she have? I think she probably struggles to try to find some love from some source. Maybe she has given up on getting this from her husband, so she desperately tries to get the affirmation she needs from her children. If so, does she know how to pursue this love in this new stage of her relationship with you and your brothers? Or is she simply asking for it the only way she knows how? One thing seems sure: She's never learned a healthy way to pursue being loved, not even from her children. I can imagine that at some point, the hurt from her husband has gotten to the point that she has become calloused in a sense - numbed to his treatment of her. She probably still desperately wants love and attention, but when she still cannot get it, then she begins to exhibit the martyred personality to try to get the love and attention she wants from someone ... anyone who will listen.

Of course, we recognize this is not going to get her the love and attention that she wants or needs. 

From your perspective, I can understand that there is a lot of hurt. You were probably the victim of your mother's frustration. Despite her wanting to be close (if, indeed she really wanted that), she wasn't able to, and in fact, she pushed you away and hurt you, and that hurt deepened the separation. I think you've expressed most of what I would think for yourself, and your own words will be much more accurate than what I will be able to surmize. I think I see a lot of hurt in your posts, though.

So what do you do here?

First, I think you recognize that you can't fix her. Further, you have your own family that you need to focus your attention on. Your posts indicate that you understand this. Good.

Can your mother be fixed and change her direction? I think it will be a very difficult thing for her to do. I imagine that by now, she really views herself as unlovable because she has never felt loved, despite her best efforts (best efforst in her mind ... ). Does she even feel herself to be worthy of being loved? I would think she probably doesn't. If she doesn't, I can't imagine that she thinks she can get the attention she craves without being a martyr to people. She probably doesn't think she can move out, establish an identity of her own, subsist, and possibly be loved by anyone. She also doesn't want to leave the only unit where she has ever found any love at all (that would be your family where at least she knew the love of children at some point and on some level, although from your perspective, it was never good). 

Does your mother have enough left of her to begin seeking counseling? If she does, and if she would agree, would you be willing to support her on that? You cannot be her counselor as this will drain you, but if she decides she is willing to go, would you support her on any level? Maybe driving her to counseling to make sure she goes. Maybe sometimes attend the session with her. I don't know what level, but I'm just wondering to what level you would be willing to help, if at all - I'm not even saying you should. Maybe one of your brothers is more able than you, or maybe there is some way of rotating it if she would go. My gosh! I can't imagine how deep the hurt is, so I have no idea how long it would take if she is ever willing to go to counseling, but I think she is going to have to see herself as lovable before she is able to take any other steps. I think she will have to do this, and see herself as lovable, though, before she can begin to pursue a healthy relationship with her children or with anyone else. I think it is likely she will look to her children for love long before she will look to her husband, but this is all just my speculation.

If she begins to see herself as more lovable, I would hope she would be able to stand up for herself a little more, and maybe change the direction of her life. Ultimately, it will be up to her to do it, though.

In the meantime, keep your boundaries where they need to be for you to maintain your relationships and your family.

BTW: Do you think what you have been through affects your perception of what kind of mother you would be? 

So did I get in the ballpark? or did I just write a fairy tale?


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## FirstYearDown

shy_guy said:


> Since you say this is just a rant, I wondered if I should just listen. It's my nature to try to solve problems, so it's hard to put that mode in neutral. I don't have a good solution, but I have a few things that come to mind as I read this. This comes from my trying to empathize with you, and with your mother. It's hard for a guy to have confidence he can empathize with a woman on a very deep level, but I'm trying to see what possibilities are. Sometimes men can have more empathy than women.
> 
> First, I absolutely agree with you not allowing her to move in with you, and I agree with you not entering into the manipulation with her that she was attempting when that was suggested. I'm not entirely sure how old you are - my impression is that you are in your late 20's, but I'm not sure what it is that makes me think that. I'm trying to figure this because I think there is a natural escalation of friction between mother and daughter as the daughter approaches the age where she is ready to move out and establish her own household. I moved out at 21. However, your guess about my age is correct. I am 29.I think this is a development of the personality that is necessary for a young woman to begin establishing her own household, and to usher in the next phase in her relationship with her mother. So when I'm reading this, I'm not sure what stage you fall into this. My guess is that you are far enough removed that the friction should have evolved into that new phase of relationship. Your refusing to bring your mother into your own house seems to confirm to me that you have passed through this phase - thus I put you in your late 20's. (You don't have to tell me your age).
> My refusal also stems from the fact that I do not like my mother as a person; I have tried to get away from that woman my whole life. I would not feel happy with her living in my house and neither would my husband.
> 
> Now, trying to empathize: I think your mother has felt unloved for a very long time. I agree. She lost her own mother at 13 and had to raise her siblings, so the feelings of abandonment must have come way before her marriage. You are seeing her inaction as weakness, and maybe it is, but in her position, I'm not sure she has seen it as this. It may be that she has seen herself as persisting even though she was unloved, and thus she saw herself as being a self-sacrificing mother/wife. Exactly.Maybe she did this out of a sense of duty to her children without really knowing how that would turn out - she was just doing what she thought was right. That is what she always says. However, we are all grown now and now her excuse is that she is too old.It may be that she thought, "Suppose I move out. Then what? Do I have any identity outside of my family? Am I able to establish a household on my own and subsist? Will anybody else love me? or will it just be the same thing I've had here?" I imagine if she stayed long enough, she began to think of herself as someone that is unlovable, and she has become very broken. La Maman has been broken for many years. She used her children as punching bags to alleviate her frustration.
> 
> If I'm correct in this, then I wonder how a person who thinks this of himself/herself interacts with the other people in his/her life that are important. Does she have an outlet to vent? Not really. Her friends and family are tired of hearing about this issue and only my last brother is at home. The rest of us stay away as much as we can.If so, what is that outlet in the context that your mother has? Is it possible that hurt and frustration constantly built up and erupted from her, and this is the beating you talk about?I am speaking of horrible physical and verbal abuse. This is what she did to me and two of my brothers, to make herself feel better and more powerful. I'm not saying it is right, I just wonder if this is the source of at least part of it. It sure is.
> 
> If she feels unloved and unlovable, and thus unable to make her marriage relationship work for her fulfillment, then when the children start leaving the nest, what source of love does she have? I think she probably struggles to try to find some love from some source. Maybe she has given up on getting this from her husband, so she desperately tries to get the affirmation she needs from her children. Hit it right on the head!If so, does she know how to pursue this love in this new stage of her relationship with you and your brothers? Or is she simply asking for it the only way she knows how? One thing seems sure: She's never learned a healthy way to pursue being loved, not even from her children.I concur. She refuses to see us as adults and tries to meddle in our lives. I can imagine that at some point, the hurt from her husband has gotten to the point that she has become calloused in a sense - numbed to his treatment of her. She probably still desperately wants love and attention, but when she still cannot get it, then she begins to exhibit the martyred personality to try to get the love and attention she wants from someone ... anyone who will listen. I only call my mother when she calls me. Otherwise, we do not speak. She wants a daughter that she can be best friends with, but I do not trust my mother or like her very much. I need to live my own life and overcome the abuse; I can't do that trapped in her narcissistic web.
> 
> Of course, we recognize this is not going to get her the love and attention that she wants or needs.
> 
> From your perspective, I can understand that there is a lot of hurt. You were probably the victim of your mother's frustration. Yes, I was. I look like my father's sister who she hates. Unfortunately, La Maman used that as a reason to be abusive.Despite her wanting to be close (if, indeed she really wanted that), she wasn't able to, and in fact, she pushed you away and hurt you, and that hurt deepened the separation. I think you've expressed most of what I would think for yourself, and your own words will be much more accurate than what I will be able to surmize. I think I see a lot of hurt in your posts, though.
> 
> So what do you do here?
> 
> First, I think you recognize that you can't fix her. Further, you have your own family that you need to focus your attention on. Your posts indicate that you understand this. Good.
> 
> Can your mother be fixed and change her direction? I think it will be a very difficult thing for her to do. I imagine that by now, she really views herself as unlovable because she has never felt loved, despite her best efforts (best efforst in her mind ... ). Does she even feel herself to be worthy of being loved? I would think she probably doesn't. If she doesn't, I can't imagine that she thinks she can get the attention she craves without being a martyr to people. She probably doesn't think she can move out, establish an identity of her own, subsist, and possibly be loved by anyone. She also doesn't want to leave the only unit where she has ever found any love at all (that would be your family where at least she knew the love of children at some point and on some level, although from your perspective, it was never good).
> 
> Does your mother have enough left of her to begin seeking counseling?No way that would ever happen. She doesn't believe in it. If she does, and if she would agree, would you be willing to support her on that? You cannot be her counselor as this will drain you, but if she decides she is willing to go, would you support her on any level? Sure I would, albeit from a distance. Maybe driving her to counseling to make sure she goes. Maybe sometimes attend the session with her.She refused to attend my sessions when I was a depressed young adult, so I will not be helping her in this manner. I don't drive either. I don't know what level, but I'm just wondering to what level you would be willing to help, if at all - I'm not even saying you should. Maybe one of your brothers is more able than you, or maybe there is some way of rotating it if she would go.My youngest brother would do it because he is her special child; the one who was rarely hit and the one who receives special treatment to this day. My eldest bro would do it because he still needs her approval. My gosh! I can't imagine how deep the hurt is, so I have no idea how long it would take if she is ever willing to go to counseling, but I think she is going to have to see herself as lovable before she is able to take any other steps. I think she will have to do this, and see herself as lovable, though, before she can begin to pursue a healthy relationship with her children or with anyone else. I think it is likely she will look to her children for love long before she will look to her husband, but this is all just my speculation. La Maman is looking in the wrong place when she calls me! :rofl:
> 
> If she begins to see herself as more lovable, I would hope she would be able to stand up for herself a little more, and maybe change the direction of her life. Ultimately, it will be up to her to do it, though.
> 
> In the meantime, keep your boundaries where they need to be for you to maintain your relationships and your family.
> 
> BTW: Do you think what you have been through affects your perception of what kind of mother you would be?
> I don't even want children, because I had such an abusive childhood. My mother hated having four kids and I swore that I would never be a miserable and tied down mom like her. If La Maman didn't have kids, she would have been happier and more fullfilled. Maybe she would have been able to leave my dad and go back to school, if La Maman didn't have "parasites" to worry about. I have inherited my mother's bad temper and I am afraid that I would not be able to refrain from abusing my own children. I even went so far as to marry a man who was also childfree and my husband has had a vasectomy.
> 
> So did I get in the ballpark? or did I just write a fairy tale?It was very long, but you made a lot of sense.:smthumbup:


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

wow.
i really dont know what else can be said about this.

i think i do know some of how you feel as i had an abusive step father. he would hardly work at all and lived of my mothers social security from my father who was killed.

he had his own was of abusing me and my brother, but my half sister, who was his daughter, got nothing but love and positive attention from him.

i have not really seen or talked to him since i came home from school on my 18th birthday with my stuff on the front porch and was told i needed to find somewhere else to live.
i spent some time on the streets a few months later.

im not sure how i would react if it was my blood parent, except my mother let it happen. i do still talk to her though because she finally had enough and sent him packing.

i know i feel as you do about him dying. i would love to hear that he has died a horrible painful death.
i think i could watch someone kill him slowly and not give 2 shets about it. might would even enjoy it.

i think if it was my bio parent that did these things, i would feel the same way as you do. i certainly dont fault you for feeling as you do.

im kind of surprised you still talk to her.
i think i would put as much distance between us as possible and i would not talk with her at all.
i give you credit for being able to do that. i wouldnt be able to.
i CERTAINLY would not allow her to live with me.
but then again, how could she ask me, she wouldnt even know where i was.

i just dont see how a bio parent could treat their child that way.
the love for your child should be one of the greatest things.

i can certainly see why you feel as you do about having children of your own.

i know i made a conscious effort NOT to treat my daughters as i was treated as a child.
at times it was very hard ans my exw would sometimes say i hope your not going to be towards your children as your step dad was to you.

i feel very bad for you and that you cant have a good relationship with your mother. but under the circumstances, i can certainly see why.

i dont see what i, or anybody can say to make things any better for you except to try and understand where you are coming from on this issue.

maybe it would be best for your mental health to, sadly, not have any more contact with her so you can focus on yourself and try and make yourself feel better about your life and your choices in it and not have the burden of your mother on your mind.


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## FirstYearDown

The only reason I speak to her is if I don't have contact with my mother, the rest of the family will shun me. 
I have tried to cut her off before and everyone took her side.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

FirstYearDown said:


> The only reason I speak to her is if I don't have contact with my mother, the rest of the family will shun me.
> I have tried to cut her off before and everyone took her side.


do they know what happened?

if so, if they shun you, are they worth having around then?


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## FirstYearDown

They know and they are all victims of my mother in their own ways.
It is not that different from a cult. I am viewed as rebellious because I stand up to my mother and I live for myself.

I love my father and my little nieces so much. I need to see them.


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## Lionelhutz

It sounds like a "complex" relationship and there could be a whole lot of additional baggage there that you may not even know about. 

I have some self-pitying "martyrs" in my life. Remind yourself that he or she is an adult and has made and is continuing to make choices. Without being preachy or condemning I pick my points to gently remind them that this is the life they have chosen. They much prefer the warm cozy feeling of "victimhood" over scary change. Their "oppressor" know this, so there is no need to be surprised or complain about poor behaviour in the future. It is a certainty.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

FirstYearDown said:


> They know and they are all victims of my mother in their own ways.
> It is not that different from a cult. I am viewed as rebellious because I stand up to my mother and I live for myself.
> 
> I love my father and my little nieces so much. I need to see them.


rock and a hard place for sure.

that makes any other choices difficult to say the least.
i feel for you fyd.


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## FirstYearDown

No pity, please. I don't want anyone feeling sorry for me.

My childhood made me strong and independent.


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## Runs like Dog

My mother and I have an understanding. We both understand she's a psycho martyr


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