# After 18 years of marriage - conundrum



## conundrum

I’m afraid this is going to be a pretty long post.

My wife and I have been married for 13 years and being together total of 18 years. I am at the point now when I’m seriously thinking about asking for a divorce.

We are a couple where I am the one with extreme high libido and she is with very low. In the beginning of our relationship we had sex often, but after about a year in it my, then girlfriend, had an ectopic pregnancy and they had her left tube removed. Sex after that became not so regular. Three years later, she had another ectopic pregnancy and they removed her right tube. At this point she started blaming me for what happened to her and, although I knew it was not my fault, (we were both in agreement to have unprotected sex and actually trying to have a baby) I think I did take that blame on me. A year later we got married and sex was even less present. I tried to explain to her that I’m really frustrated when I don’t have sex for weeks or even months, but she wouldn’t change her ways. The interesting thing is, that when we had sex, 8 out of 10 times she will have orgasm with me, often very loud and screaming, with redness on her chests and all other indicators that it’s not being faked. But if she was not interested in sex, and I asked her to help me out, posing or otherwise she’ll do it with no interest at all or such bored expression that sometimes I will just ask her to leave it and go away because being so not into me was like a cold shower. She would never go oral, because she was disgusted with it and she slowly pushed me away from performing oral on her as she was also uncomfortable with it.

Then after 4 years in marriage we tried in-vitro to have a baby and it failed. Years of (for me boring and impassioned sex) have followed although I was still able to bring orgasms in her on pretty regular basis, but sex was once in 4-6 weeks for the most part. Few years later she started getting urinary tract infections. She was always saying that she had really bad UTIs when she was a kid and these now were real bad too. She would go on Cipro for 10 days and sex will be out the window for couple of months. After she talked with some girlfriends, she started blaming me that it’s my fault and if we are going to have sex it’ll be only if I use a condom. She was sure that I have some bacteria that are causing her UTIs. I went to my doctor and he took a swab and found no bacteria, or at least, not the one that was harming my wife. Anyway, I started using condom and for most part there was no UTI problem, but it will still happen from time to time.

Two years ago we did a second attempt at having a baby in-vitro and my wife got pregnant for about a month, but unfortunately she lost her pregnancy and we decided we’re not going to try anymore. But in last year or more, our sex life has improved in frequency. It was still same old, not too much interesting game for me, but it was more often and at least that was an improvement. She was UTI free for almost two years. However, 3-4 months ago my wife got an UTI again and this time took three courses of different antibiotics over a period of a month, to help her. We were using condom as usual but obviously, it is not me who causing it, but the sex act itself. She could have sex with anybody else and it will happen, regardless. 

So after more than three months without sex I’m arriving to a point where I’m pretty sure I don’t want to have sex with her ever again. I don’t want to risk that she gets sick again and go through this entire ordeal again. It is really hard for me to see her suffer, and equally hard to feel her negativity towards me as on occasion she would still blame me silently. At the same time I don’t like an idea that at the age of 46 I will have to stop having sex with my wife, and at the same time I’m not interested in cheating or looking for prostitutes. I told her, half-jokingly few days ago that she should help me with this problem and I suggested she hook me up with one of her girlfriends who is single, and quite "easygoing". My wife just smiled and said that her girlfriend would never do it with me because of her and my response was, that in that case we should probably get a divorce. She didn’t say anything but I can see that it got her worrying as she increased her cooking and cleaning in the last few days, as well as blowing kisses and saying that she loves me.

So, at the end I’m getting to my online name – conundrum. Damn if I leave. Damn if I don’t.


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## Deejo

Insist on counseling. If she declines taking steps to improve your marriage - not much point in sticking around.

You really should try to involve a professional therapist to see if the issue can be addressed. If the effort fails, you will know that you indeed made a sincere effort.


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## MEM2020

This is a terribly sad story. I do think MC is worth it. 

I guess the fairly obvious alternatives to intercourse are not a workable option for either/both of you?





conundrum said:


> I’m afraid this is going to be a pretty long post.
> 
> My wife and I have been married for 13 years and being together total of 18 years. I am at the point now when I’m seriously thinking about asking for a divorce.
> 
> We are a couple where I am the one with extreme high libido and she is with very low. In the beginning of our relationship we had sex often, but after about a year in it my, then girlfriend, had an ectopic pregnancy and they had her left tube removed. Sex after that became not so regular. Three years later, she had another ectopic pregnancy and they removed her right tube. At this point she started blaming me for what happened to her and, although I knew it was not my fault, (we were both in agreement to have unprotected sex and actually trying to have a baby) I think I did take that blame on me. A year later we got married and sex was even less present. I tried to explain to her that I’m really frustrated when I don’t have sex for weeks or even months, but she wouldn’t change her ways. The interesting thing is, that when we had sex, 8 out of 10 times she will have orgasm with me, often very loud and screaming, with redness on her chests and all other indicators that it’s not being faked. But if she was not interested in sex, and I asked her to help me out, posing or otherwise she’ll do it with no interest at all or such bored expression that sometimes I will just ask her to leave it and go away because being so not into me was like a cold shower. She would never go oral, because she was disgusted with it and she slowly pushed me away from performing oral on her as she was also uncomfortable with it.
> 
> Then after 4 years in marriage we tried in-vitro to have a baby and it failed. Years of (for me boring and impassioned sex) have followed although I was still able to bring orgasms in her on pretty regular basis, but sex was once in 4-6 weeks for the most part. Few years later she started getting urinary tract infections. She was always saying that she had really bad UTIs when she was a kid and these now were real bad too. She would go on Cipro for 10 days and sex will be out the window for couple of months. After she talked with some girlfriends, she started blaming me that it’s my fault and if we are going to have sex it’ll be only if I use a condom. She was sure that I have some bacteria that are causing her UTIs. I went to my doctor and he took a swab and found no bacteria, or at least, not the one that was harming my wife. Anyway, I started using condom and for most part there was no UTI problem, but it will still happen from time to time.
> 
> Two years ago we did a second attempt at having a baby in-vitro and my wife got pregnant for about a month, but unfortunately she lost her pregnancy and we decided we’re not going to try anymore. But in last year or more, our sex life has improved in frequency. It was still same old, not too much interesting game for me, but it was more often and at least that was an improvement. She was UTI free for almost two years. However, 3-4 months ago my wife got an UTI again and this time took three courses of different antibiotics over a period of a month, to help her. We were using condom as usual but obviously, it is not me who causing it, but the sex act itself. She could have sex with anybody else and it will happen, regardless.
> 
> So after more than three months without sex I’m arriving to a point where I’m pretty sure I don’t want to have sex with her ever again. I don’t want to risk that she gets sick again and go through this entire ordeal again. It is really hard for me to see her suffer, and equally hard to feel her negativity towards me as on occasion she would still blame me silently. At the same time I don’t like an idea that at the age of 46 I will have to stop having sex with my wife, and at the same time I’m not interested in cheating or looking for prostitutes. I told her, half-jokingly few days ago that she should help me with this problem and I suggested she hook me up with one of her girlfriends who is single, and quite "easygoing". My wife just smiled and said that her girlfriend would never do it with me because of her and my response was, that in that case we should probably get a divorce. She didn’t say anything but I can see that it got her worrying as she increased her cooking and cleaning in the last few days, as well as blowing kisses and saying that she loves me.
> 
> So, at the end I’m getting to my online name – conundrum. Damn if I leave. Damn if I don’t.


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## conundrum

I don't know about counseling. I suggested it in the past and she was furious that I would even considering that. Like telling a total stranger our secrets, etc. Now that I think about it, I'm afraid it's because she know that her "logic" or arguments will loose.

I'm sorry, but what "fairly obvious alternatives to intercourse" you have in mind?

Thanks!


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## MEM2020

Personally I consider a strong aversion to counseling a big red flag. And I agree with your statement - which is she knew an objective third party would not allow her to get away with bad behavior. No rational person attacks their partner for suggesting counseling. The sessions are protected conversations meaning the therapist immediately loses their license if they ever disclose what you have told them. 

Does your wife often bully you this way?

As for alternatives: My wife has had a condition a couple times that makes intercourse painful. Once for 2 months, and once for about 6 weeks. And in both cases she offered oral entertainment regularly. The first time - 2 summers ago - I only took her up on it once. But this last time this past summer she was adamant that I lie back and let her pleasure me at least once sometimes a couple/three times a week until her condition was healed. 

Ideally the alternative would be regular oral sex - in both directions. 

If she does not like doing that  sorry for you - bare bare minimum she gives you a really good full body massage and a first rate hand job while she kisses you on the mouth - or nipples or ...

And of course you pleasure her however she likes - other then intercourse.

The alternative - no sex at all - would not be acceptable to me. 







conundrum said:


> I don't know about counseling. I suggested it in the past and she was furious that I would even considering that. Like telling a total stranger our secrets, etc. Now that I think about it, I'm afraid it's because she know that her "logic" or arguments will loose.
> 
> I'm sorry, but what "fairly obvious alternatives to intercourse" you have in mind?
> 
> Thanks!


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## conundrum

My wife and I have a pretty good relationship, except where sex is subject. In my opinion, she is a bit of a control freak and extremely defensive. Our fights in the past were so ugly that with time I just resolved to avoidance. For the most part I did it because of the guilt that she was throwing at me, as well as the guilt that I felt myself. We are from Europe and there was a war in our country in the 90s. She was pushing me to run away as soon as it started, but I didn't want to leave and wanted to stay and fight. She stayed with me and endured all the horrors one can imagine for 4 years. For that I always felt a guilt, but will get angry when she will use that as her argument that I'm somehow responsible now to take care of her for the rest of our lives.

As far as alternatives go - I don't think that'll work. She was never into oral sex and even pushed me away from performing it on her years ago. I don't remember when was the last time we kissed passionately mouth to mouth. She usually avoids it and is more interested in kind of pecks on a lips or cheeks - makes me feel as if I'm her brother or a baby.

I'm afraid, I know what I have to do, but I have another conundrum. I want to do good by her and make sure that she's financially secured, but right now we are both unemployed more than a year, and my small business is doing very poor right now. The only solution might be to sell our house and split the profits. We could make maybe 70-100,000 out of it and I'll be OK with 15-20k for myself.

I would really appreciate if some of the ladies on this forum will pitch in and gave me their opinions. I appreciate everybody's input, but will really like to hear from woman's point of view too.

Thanks!


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## Atholk

I'm with MEM11363 on this one. Just because the rollercoaster is broken doesn't mean the entire amusment park should be shut down. Hand jobs, blow jobs... there's still lots of fun to be had. Wives who make consistently poor attempts to be sexual with their husbands risk becoming ex-wives. It's just natural consequences.

But if she doesn't even kiss you... 

I'd suggest a marriage counseling or divorce ultimatium. When a man suggests marriage counseling and the women refuses it's a major red flag that something isn't right. (Not so much when a woman asks a man to go to marriage counseling. Men typically view marriage counseling as slanted in the women's favor and gives them about as good odds of success as a woman would view their success chances at "marriage boxing" where men would have a natural advantage and issues are dealt with over three, 3 minute rounds.)


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## StrongEnough

I'd suggest a marriage counseling or divorce ultimatium. When a man suggests marriage counseling and the women refuses it's a major red flag that something isn't right. (Not so much when a woman asks a man to go to marriage counseling. Men typically view marriage counseling as slanted in the women's favor and gives them about as good odds of success as a woman would view their success chances at "marriage boxing" where men would have a natural advantage and issues are dealt with over three, 3 minute rounds.) 

I'm interested in this statement. Is this how most men view marriage counseling. I have been trying to get my husband to go to no avail. I am at the point where I plan to file for divorce and move on because he refuses to go and the marriage is not getting better.

Don't mean to highjack the thread-just thought this was a decent statement and I was hoping for further explanation.


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## conundrum

One more thing to add. In all these years, and even now - I know and I can sense that despite all I said, my wife do love me. There are many, many things that I'm happy about, but the parts that make me unhappy are really pressing hard on me.


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## lastinline

Strongenough, how can I sign up for this "marriage boxing thing", and can I use my feet? LIL


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## StrongEnough

lastinline said:


> Strongenough, how can I sign up for this "marriage boxing thing", and can I use my feet? LIL


I don't know. That was Atholk's quote. I am awaiting his response.


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## Atholk

StrongEnough said:


> I don't know. That was Atholk's quote. I am awaiting his response.


Well the whole thing of sitting down, and talking about your thoughts and feelings, and discussing the relationship... this entire approach is based on skills that are feminine based. It's about one step away from having a tea party with dolls. Most men are already out talked and verbally outclassed by their wives already. Counseling just seems like an arena designed for them to lose in, except this time the stakes are just that much higher.

Hence my point about "marriage boxing". The option to lace on boxing gloves and hammer at each other for a bit, puts women at a obvious natural disadvantage. If asked to do "marriage boxing", I'd think most women would feel like that was an appointment they would like to delay. (See two men thumping each other with boxing gloves angrily can actually improve their friendship - this makes no sense to women)

The other concern I have about marriage counseling is that it is the socially approved method of allowing marriages to come to an end. If you just walk away from your marriage you're regarded as a bad person. But if you can say "well we tried marriage counseling, but nothing worked", then it's ok to end the marriage as a good person. Also it can be used as the method for fishing for a good reason to end it all. ("I just discovered the whole time he was controlling and abusing me, I need to do want I want to do, and the counselor agreed")

So a man that is asked to marriage counseling by his wife, can often view it as a one way trip to the end of his marriage. So they can avoid it as a way (in their minds) to stay married.

There is a real trap here in that men can have so few relationship communication skills that the marriage gets in trouble, and the "solution" to fixing the marriage is using relationship communication skills in counseling. The deeper problem is that men have no training or instruction over what the heck they are meant to do in a marriage and living with a woman. If working on your marriage could be reduced (explained, or reframed) to some sort of tasks and action steps (that weren't just talking about the problems), men would be more inclined to go along with it. (I am working on this  )


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## StrongEnough

Atholk~

Thank you for the response. Again, not to highjack the thread, but I am very interested in your response and well it makes a lot of sense. 

I am in a position where I need to deliver an ultimatum. We fix it or I am gone-no more waffling inbetween. Do you think I should use the ultimatum of marriage counseling or divorce? I cannot understand how counseling will help if someone is forced to go. However, that being said, I cannot continue to live like this, so do I deliver that ultimatum? Or should I just say the marriage is over and hope and pray he says we will go?


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## MEM2020

StrongEnough,

I truly think it is fair to say to your partner - whether you are the man or the wife: 

I am not happy. I believe we have tried to fix our marriage without outside help - however we have not succeeded. I am willing to try to fix it with the help of a MC. That only has a chance of working if you actively participate and are committed to trying to make things work. 

If you are not agreeable to counseling and to your active participation in the process I understand. Lets try to part amicably. I want a divorce. 

And then he has a choice to make. And it is very binary. Yes or no. And in a nice way you can explain that when the counselor gives you two homework he does his. Not doing it = not being committed = end of marriage. 






StrongEnough said:


> Atholk~
> 
> Thank you for the response. Again, not to highjack the thread, but I am very interested in your response and well it makes a lot of sense.
> 
> I am in a position where I need to deliver an ultimatum. We fix it or I am gone-no more waffling inbetween. Do you think I should use the ultimatum of marriage counseling or divorce? I cannot understand how counseling will help if someone is forced to go. However, that being said, I cannot continue to live like this, so do I deliver that ultimatum? Or should I just say the marriage is over and hope and pray he says we will go?


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## Atholk

I think once it is clearly framed as a "Divorce or Marriage Counseling" decision, then you're going to overcome that last resistance of counseling if they want to stay married.

"We need marriage counseling" is quite a different approach than "it's either marriage counseling or divorce".

I would go so far to actually contact a few marriage counselors, ask them expected costs, what their success rate is. (You'll likely get some sort of waffle about "all the couples that want to stay married and work on it succeed, I'm just a means of communication" which basically implies to me the counselor is useless, find one that will actually say "I'm batting about 40%, which is better than most" or something similar.)

Likewise contact a few lawyers offices and ask rates etc. Find out what the basic process is. You don't have to talk to the attorney, usually the office staff are pretty much fine with the general process.

Create two packets of the information. Put in big envelopes and mark one with a big  and one with a big . Highlight the counselor you think is best, say "this is who I think *we* should use". In the attorney packet highlight the best option and say, "this is who *I* will use, you would need someone else". Give them the packets and talk them through the contents. I'd give them 48 hours for them to come to a decision. Don't get into a debate or screaming match about things, just ask for a decision. If they fold and choose counseling (which might just happen within the first minute of seeing the two packets and the contents!) then book the counseling appointment right then and there. Even if all you can do is leave voicemail for the counselor saying you want an appointment. Do not let the moment pass.

If they say "ok *you win*, I'll go to counseling". Say "it's not about winning or losing, it's about *us*". Book the appointment. I'd really suggest being in physical contact with your partner as you make that call.

Sorry for thread drift  the OP has some tricky issues and counseling seems appropriate.


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## noideato20

For gosh sakes suggest something . Anything. The worst thing is to just not make it clear that your unhappy and then suggest divorce. I can only speak my opinion but in my case I would have rather have had an ultimatum than no communication.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## conundrum

I honestly don't know what to suggest. Last time we have a big fight 18 months ago, she made clear that she's happy with the way things are and that she has no problems. It is me who is unhappy, ungrateful, and that is all my problem, not hers.

So I talked to a counselor back then, all by myself because my wife will not consider counseling and will probably cut my head of from yelling if she knew that I did it myself - and a counselor suggested that I get a bit more assertive, to stop complaining and raising my voice and it kinda worked until now. The thing is now that I can't see a light at the end of the tunnel. She can be happy as the way things are and I'm more and more unhappy. She sees me going through the roller-coaster of frustration and she can see that I'm not OK and I'm aggravated, but she's not making any notion to talk about it with me. She's going through the day as usual, even more nice than usual, but she's not making any effort to find out what's going on with me. It's been almost 4 months without any sex and as I can see, it's going to be like this till the end of days.


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## conundrum

I forgot to mention one more thing. For years she's been talking to me gently, kinda baby talk and referring to me as her baby. For long I took that as her "love talk", but more and more lately, when I combine everything, that seams to me as her way to make me really into her baby, not her husband.

I also did something silly tonight. I opened online a local apartment guide to check what is available and affordable out there, and didn't even look at it, but forgot to close a window and she saw it. And now, for the first time in years, she went to bed without a sound not wanting to talk to me. BTW, we've been sleeping in separate rooms last 6 years. In part because of my snoring, but also because we are on two totally different schedules. She goes to sleep 1-2 hours earlier than me and gets up 2-4 hours later then me.


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## Corpuswife

I'm sorry that this is happening. It's difficult to love someone and not have your needs met.

She may have a low libido or take alot of warming up to get to the point of sex. With the amount of reproductive problems and UTI's this is difficult for her as well. I'd imagine that she may have a fear of intercourse at this point. Fear of pain and fear of being dissapointed that there is no preganancy. 

Her lack of affection and kissing is probably the fact that those things lead to intercourse. Women often don't do the other things if they think it will lead to intercourse (if they don't want it).

She says she's happy. You aren't. You need to sit her down and be extrememly kind, loving and DIRECT! Tell her your needs. Let her know that this is important enough to leave if she doesn't try to get help with a MC or put forth sexually (in some way).

If these direct talk do nothing, then you have your answer.

Don't give her an ultimatum if you aren't willing to move forward. 

Also...read the Gary Chapman book on The Five Love Languages. It would be a good book for the both of you.


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## conundrum

Corpuswife said:


> I'm sorry that this is happening. It's difficult to love someone and not have your needs met.
> 
> She may have a low libido or take alot of warming up to get to the point of sex. With the amount of reproductive problems and UTI's this is difficult for her as well. I'd imagine that she may have a fear of intercourse at this point. Fear of pain and fear of being dissapointed that there is no preganancy.
> 
> Her lack of affection and kissing is probably the fact that those things lead to intercourse. Women often don't do the other things if they think it will lead to intercourse (if they don't want it).
> 
> She says she's happy. You aren't. You need to sit her down and be extrememly kind, loving and DIRECT! Tell her your needs. Let her know that this is important enough to leave if she doesn't try to get help with a MC or put forth sexually (in some way).
> 
> If these direct talk do nothing, then you have your answer.
> 
> Don't give her an ultimatum if you aren't willing to move forward.
> 
> Also...read the Gary Chapman book on The Five Love Languages. It would be a good book for the both of you.


Thank you very much for your help. The problem I'm facing right now (conundrum) is that I don't want to have sex with her because I can't stand anymore to fell guilty. If she gets another UTI, I will blame myself again and I know she will too, if nothing silently.


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## conundrum

I totally understand that her avoiding to kiss me b/c she wanted to avoid possibly leading to sex and many years ago I've been guilty of that. But she won't kiss me even when we're intimate and during sex.


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## Corpuswife

You both are afraid of sex regarding the UTIs. 

It doesn't seem like you have much of a choice. 

If she is unwilling to be sexual in other ways then you will go without sex or will need to leave. Express your desires to be sexual (other than intercourse). If she refuses to get help or please you...then you'll need to make a choice.


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## conundrum

I just had a talk with my wife and asked her to try and think about some solution for this problem. She was very direct and said she has no solution. She said: "What can I do? I can't do anything.", and I asked her to try and think for few days and come up with some suggestions, but she was very determined that there's nothing she can do and that the decision is mine. If I think we should divorce, she'll agree with that, whatever I decide she'll agree. And then she throws: "If you think we should divorce so you can find someone and have sex EVERY DAY, THAT'S FINE."

"Obviously, that's most important thing to you..." And I try to tell her that it's not the most important, but IT IS important and I can't imagine myself being at 46 and healthy to be without sex until I die. And for once I want this to be her problem, not mine - but she kept saying that she can't do anything and that I have to decide. Uhhhhhhhhhhh!


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## Deejo

You are caught in a game of chicken.

You don't need to divorce. But, go find a place of your own. Move out. Even if you decide to leave for just a week 'to clear your head'. She will know you aren't kidding. She will however, continue to minimize the issue and make it about you. If she won't do counseling and won't take SOME kind of action to salvage your relationship, then you should move on. The bigger tragedy will be, once you two are done - she will address the problem and eventually be having sex with someone else.

I know this game all too well.


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## Corpuswife

Deejo...that is great advice! She can figure this out on her own. You've stated how important this is to her.


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## conundrum

I like the idea, but the problem is that we're both unemployed and have only one car right now. Neither of us could be without the car.

All I did last night was asked her to do something about this status quo and whole day today she was giving me a silent treatment, and spent most of it sleeping. She did make lunch and I cleaned the dishes.

I had some business to take care of tonight, so I returned around 10pm and she was talking to a friend and being in much better mood. I can see that she has increased her job search like 3x and from little that I picked up, she's probably been talking to her entire female support group (about 10 friends) and the summary is this: "All the men are same. All they think is about sex. They don't care that we cook and take care of them, all they are interested in is sex."

So I guess, I'm a villain.


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## MEM2020

If you get a decent job and THEN move out you will likely get a different reaction. 

I actually think the ideal conversation goes like this. 

Husband to wife: I need you to tell me what you want more of and less of behaviorally both in and out of the bedroom - so that you will be willing to have regular sex with me. 

It really is that simple. Willing is a definable objective state. 

By the way there is an easy turn around here. Ask your wife what kind of husband she will get if she tells him up front that she is simply not willing to have sex with him. 

I love my wife like crazy. And twice/maybe three times a week we spend at least one hour having a fantastic time with each other. If you subtract those 3 hours from the week you would ruin ALL the rest of the week for me. I am a man. That is how we are wired.



conundrum said:


> I like the idea, but the problem is that we're both unemployed and have only one car right now. Neither of us could be without the car.
> 
> All I did last night was asked her to do something about this status quo and whole day today she was giving me a silent treatment, and spent most of it sleeping. She did make lunch and I cleaned the dishes.
> 
> I had some business to take care of tonight, so I returned around 10pm and she was talking to a friend and being in much better mood. I can see that she has increased her job search like 3x and from little that I picked up, she's probably been talking to her entire female support group (about 10 friends) and the summary is this: "All the men are same. All they think is about sex. They don't care that we cook and take care of them, all they are interested in is sex."
> 
> So I guess, I'm a villain.


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## conundrum

It is a second day my wife is giving me a silent treatment. She does cook lunch and diner, but I can see that she focused almost all her attention to finding a job, even overseas in the old country if needed. I guess she thinks that I'm going to kick her out or leave her just like that so she's looking to ensure herself if that happens.

I, for one, even if I get to that point, want to do good by her. If we sell our home, I intend to split 20-80. I just need a little bit to get me going, so all of the rest is for her. But that's what I plan to do if it comes to that, obviously she's doesn't know that.

It's interesting. I threw the ball into her lap asking her to come up with some solution and basically she said that only solution for us is to divorce, if that's what I want, or for me to be happy-go-lucky to have her and forget about the sex and never allow myself to be bothered by the lack of sex. I guess it's her way or highway, or I'm a complete moron for allowing sex to ruin my marriage?


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## Corpuswife

It's hard for you to threaten divorce when you are both unemployed at this time. Frankly, you need each other financially. The selling of a house will take time and will be limited.

On the other hand, not having jobs, is probably pretty depressing as well. Women don't feel like sex when pressing issues are on their mind (overall). Men, for the most part, can have sex in any condition. Maybe this is a factor.

I wish you luck.


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## conundrum

Corpuswife said:


> It's hard for you to threaten divorce when you are both unemployed at this time. Frankly, you need each other financially. The selling of a house will take time and will be limited.
> 
> On the other hand, not having jobs, is probably pretty depressing as well. Women don't feel like sex when pressing issues are on their mind (overall). Men, for the most part, can have sex in any condition. Maybe this is a factor.
> 
> I wish you luck.


I understand your point completely, but! She needs me financially, I can be OK on my own. I do some contract work here and there and still pay all the bills, mortgage, etc. It's not like when we had solid jobs, but we're getting through. She's the one who worked very little in these 12 years. I worked two jobs for a long time at the same time she was not or was picky about the job. Last few jobs, one she had for three months and they let her go, apparently b/c boss wanted to have sex with her and she turned him down. Two other jobs she quit after two days. She didn't like the office, or people, or they were asking her to do too much, for a tiny pay they were going to pay her.

I'm constructionist. I create things, create opportunities and fight. She's a quitter and reductionist. She's always looking how not to spend (money or herself), but what to do if she gets down to zero. There's nothing to save if you're on zero and you never did anything to make it larger then what you currently have.

Now she's looking for a job, but I think not to help our marriage, but to ensure herself that she does have a job if divorce happen.


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## conundrum

After almost a week of quietness in the house and no progress of any kind, except that I went out for a drink a few times simply because I felt like a caged animal - yesterday late afternoon my wife approached me and suggested we have sex. I said that I'm uncomfortable with that and concerned if she gets sick again. 

She was not especially insistent, but kept saying that it's ok, and it's up to me if I want. I started to feel that if I refuse to have sex with her it may turn bad from there so I said OK. But I told her that I'm tired of going through motions and have sex without passion, kissing, etc..

She dressed sexy and smelled nice and I was gentle and slow with her. She turned on quickly and said she was missing it. We were kissing and it lasted for quite some time. However, I felt awkward all the time. I started to feel all that as more-less a manipulation and re-take of control from her and I just made sure she gets taken care of (big O), while I couldn't finish. I had to take care of it a little later myself in the other room.

After this she started talking to me much more, and it seams to me that she thinks that everything is back to normal. After all, she's of opinion that I'm like all other guys and only think of sex, so now that I had sex with her, I should be OK.

I'm going crazy!


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## Corpuswife

Well...you are a guy and this is about sex. But, it's also about feeling connected. This lack of caring has damaged your marriage. 

I would consider making YOUR move next time. Forget about her UTI's. Just be careful to prevent as much as you can (the UTI's). The more you have sex the better connection you will feel. Don't let fear take over your marriage.

In the meantime, do what you can to gain her attention. Flowers, make dinner, etc. Get creative. Kiss. Foreplay without sex. Anything tomake her feel special and wanted. In turn, she may do you some favors.


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## conundrum

Well, about 4 days after we had that sex, my wife started feeling irritation, there's blood in her urine and it seams she got UTI again. Just one final, final proof that sex is no more for us.

However, what is killing me is that I constantly trying that she takes some initiative and suggest something to resolve this problem and all she does is repeating that nothing is her fault, that she feels the worst now for being sick and that she can't understand how can't I be happy considering that she's been great wife, who doesn't spend money around, she cooks, takes care of me and I'm doing this to her.

She literarily believes that she's been perfect all these years and that she never, ever had to change or adopt. So when I tell her that b/c she never wanted to change, I chose to do so in some instances to come closer to her, I felt after some time that I've been doing things against my nature and that upsets me. For her, that is just a proof that I never loved her.

I suggested again to see MC and her first question was how will I take it if MC tells me that I'm wrong and have to change? She concluded that I will get upset. I told her that MC's job is not to make one party guilty, but to seek a solution that will make both to compromise and agree on something. At that moment she grabbed a notepad to try to interview me to find out what are all those things that upset me, as if she was a MC. I told her that looks to me very much like a typical case of projecting and then she just said that we can't afford MC, b/c they charge $250/hour and in the end they don't tell you anything that she already doesn't know. Her argument was that our friend went recently to see counselor and after spending $250 returned home telling my wife that counselor told her exactly the same thing my wife did.

Is there some counseling that is not expensive? What to look for? BTW, we are both non-religious so church counselors probably are not a good idea.

Thanks!


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## Corpuswife

Call a counselor and ask for a recommendation for low cost or free counseling. If they don't know, then ask another. If you have a university nearby call their psychology or counseling department. Ask if they have a place for counseling in which the interns staff the place. Most have a internship site in which they offer free counseling in turn for practice.


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## conundrum

Well, I went to counselor yesterday by myself. I explained situation and told about my wife's attitude towards our problem and unwillingness to go to counseling at all.

The counselor gave me a "homework" to do - exercises on "Constructing my Imago" and to look for a book "Getting the love you want" by Harville Hendrix. She stated that all this is to help me understand myself better and work my own issues, but in all she said that it looks that my wife needs counseling 10 time more than myself to help her deal with her insecurities and to help her focus on dealing with the same, not transferring them onto me and having me change or deal with her issues.


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## yulim

Just join this forum and posted a new threat on something similar, wanted to just say i understand how you feel.


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## conundrum

After many weeks, I can see now that sex issue was just something that have initiated my unsatisfaction, but there is much more than just sex.

After my first visit to the counselor I asked my wife to go together with me and after lot of arguning and shouting, she agreed. The counselor asked us to do the Imago profiles and read the book (Getting the love you want) and my wife was so in resistance with that. After reading few chapters of the book she got so upset by it and we had an arguning again and she continuted to read the rest. She was in disagreemnet with the author about the influence our parents have on us as we become adults. Today we went for a second meeting with counselor and my wife told her that same thing, while all along giving examples from her childhood how her parents were basicaly disfunctional, abusive and neglective. Yet she constantly kept saying that's OK with her b/c she still loves them.

For the most part I could sense my problem with my wife is that she's too controling and that she's acting as if she was my mother, not my wife. She also told the couselor that we will not be returning for more sessions. Well, I think I will, at least for one more, for my own sake.

This is all getting so troubling for me now. I can't see how we can achieve anything this way. And with my wife it is all pretty much "my way or highway". So, I might be heading for a highway.


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## Deejo

conundrum said:


> And with my wife it is all pretty much "my way or highway". So, I might be heading for a highway.


Which is why you need to be careful of what you wish for. Odds are, she doesn't actually want you to leave, but she doesn't want to change either. If you want to move forward with your wife, you need to take the risk of the highway, either figuratively or literally.


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## conundrum

Deejo said:


> Which is why you need to be careful of what you wish for. Odds are, she doesn't actually want you to leave, but she doesn't want to change either. If you want to move forward with your wife, you need to take the risk of the highway, either figuratively or literally.


That's exactly what I think it is. She doesn't want me to leave. She's even talking about another atempt to try and have a baby in-vitro (in this predicament, that freaked me out), but she doesn't want to change a thing about her. In her own words - she's perfect and she doesn't know what the hell have hapened to me. I was such a nice guy and now I'm making all this rucus!


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