# New with Issues



## MILProblems

Hi everyone. I'm new here. My husband and I have been married for 18 years, my MIL has been causing problems for that long, and it looks like she may be getting her way, finally. He went to visit them recently and has been ridiculously grumpy and angry since he got back. I asked him point blank if he wanted a divorce, and he said that while he didn't want one, it looks like we're headed there. My MIL will pay for an apartment, his lawyer, etc. Part of me wants to fight for my marriage, part of me wants to just let my MIL win and get her out of my life.


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## Tilted 1

Tell us more what lead up to this divorce question. And welcome


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## MILProblems

Oh, where to start. From the time we met, my MIL has been either hateful or incredibly loving. It started out that she hated me, thought it would be a starter marriage, called me a gold digger, etc. Threatened not to tell H if his grandparents passed away. Neither MIL or FIL showed at the wedding. A year later, one of H's grandparents died, MIL called and opened a relationship. Apologies all around, relationship starts. She demanded much of H's time, I dealt, we moved across the state for work. We would visit, she would get upset when we don't send presents for holidays, just cards. She would forget my birthday or just fail to acknowledge it periodically. Other times, she would remember and send a card and present. I try to remind H about her birthday, mother's day, Christmas, etc., so we have presents and cards for her. We would visit when we could, bringing our dogs if we're spending the night.

She decided she didn't like the dogs there because of the fur, so only H would visit her for weekends. She and I would talk occasionally, things seemed fine when I see them when we would meet for dinners and such. 

H has never wanted to be involved in money, but when we've had money issues, he gets furious. H threatened divorce over money issues last year, we worked things out. He took a new job that required a decent amount of travel last year, and that seemed to help. His travel had him out of town for mother's day this year, so he and I met his parents a few hours away for all of us. I brought a card for her that we both signed, but didn't think of a gift. My FIL called H the next week and read him the riot act over the lack of a gift. H sent her a check from an account that we don't use frequently. My birthday is at the beginning of June. She didn't acknowledge my birthday, and H and I fought, especially because she flipped out at him the day after my birthday about a trip we were all supposed to take.

H showed me an email he was going to send that basically said "Yesterday was her birthday." He made me think he sent it but didn't. MIL still didn't acknowledge my birthday, so a month later, I decided that if she couldn't bother wishing me happy birthday, I wasn't going to give her a mother's day present, and made it so there was never any money in the account. 

The check bounced, she told H the week before he was supposed to go out of town for a month. He told me to talk to her while he was gone. I called, she wanted nothing to do with talking to me, so I never apologized or explained. He went to visit them recently, and came back from the trip angry, grumpy, and told me that his parents were more important than me. I finally asked him, because I figured that after the visit he was thinking about it.

She told him I didn't apologize, and convinced him that maybe he should walk away. She'll pay for an apartment, etc. He wants me to apologize to her. I feel like even if I do, in a month, it'll be something else.


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## Diana7

This is one of those situations where the man has never really left his parents for his wife. Sometimes the only solution is for the parents to be cut off, drastic I know, but clearly every time he goes she tries to break up your marriage and that is appalling toxic behaviour. No one should be allowed to do that ever.

I would suggest finding agood marriage counsellor who can hopefully let him see what is happening here. 
If he does see them or talk to them, then he needs to set clear boundaries so that if she ever starts on about leaving you, or starts criticising you, he will leave immediately. Of course that is up to him, but he needs to stand up to them. If he refuses and choose them over you, then not sure what will work for you.


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## Andy1001

Is he an only child by any chance. Are they playing the inheritance card and threatening to leave him out of their will?


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## MILProblems

Diana7 said:


> This is one of those situations where the man has never really left his parents for his wife. Sometimes the only solution is for the parents to be cut off, drastic I know, but clearly every time he goes she tries to break up your marriage and that is appalling toxic behaviour. No one should be allowed to do that ever.
> 
> I would suggest finding agood marriage counsellor who can hopefully let him see what is happening here.
> If he does see them or talk to them, then he needs to set clear boundaries so that if she ever starts on about leaving you, or starts criticising you, he will leave immediately. Of course that is up to him, but he needs to stand up to them. If he refuses and choose them over you, then not sure what will work for you.


He won't. I assume some of it is that they've promised him an inheritance, some of it is that MIL has a toxic personality and won't take no for an answer. 

He agreed to go to counseling but said he doesn't think it will work.


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## MILProblems

Andy1001 said:


> Is he an only child by any chance. Are they playing the inheritance card and threatening to leave him out of their will?


He is not the only child, but there will be an inheritance. I don't know that they are verbally playing that card or if it is just a subtle assumption.


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## She'sStillGotIt

I must have zero tolerance for man bull**** anymore, because any man who threatens me with divorce or claims it's coming down the pike because I haven't treated him like the Demi-god he is to his lunatic mother's satisfaction - would get *exactly* what he claims is coming. 

A brand new shiny, late model divorce. Pfffft.

OP, you married an emotionally stunted man-child. What the hell is wrong with this guy - is he 8 years old or something? "My parents are more important to me than YOU are! Nanner nanner!" How on EARTH you've stood this **** show for 18 years literally boggles my mind.

Unless that inheritance he's getting is a castle in Bordeaux France worth millions or 40 pounds in gold bullion bars, I honestly can't think of one positive reason to stay in Dysfunction Junction. I honestly can't.


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## sa58

Sorry that you have been going through 
this for 16 years.

How old are you and your husband ?
Do you have any children ?

I agree with Diana7, he has never truly
left home. His mother sounds like the type
that will never be happy for him. Who he married
or what ever he does. That may be where part of his
anger comes from. You said that when he had a job 
that required travel things got better. He was away 
from the entire situation then. 

He needs to grow up stand up and decide his own 
life. He can not keep trying to balance things between 
mommy dearest and you. Counseling may help with this.
His life and his decisions affect a lot more than him. 

I would caution you about lowering yourself down to their 
level. Not giving her a mothers day gift etc. Don;t pour gasoline 
on the fire. and give her any reason to complain. I understand the 
hurt and frustration but it is not worth it.


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## Tilted 1

Yes, as the above posters have said, it is time to move forward with your life. What a screwed up family. Your H and his family, he is repeating the same traits as his father which is by no means a man and have been repeating the same weak and failing to appease the mother. Because of controlling the reigns with the magic carrot of inheritance of some worth. Is not a way to live but he does.

If he cannot explain to his family of the cost of living and the need of presents, for the occasions, and the lack of money in your account. With checks bouncing. Shows he is also self serving. You now have become a part of that sick and meaningless cycle of misery. I know 18 years should account for something, but another 18 years of misery just is not worth it. 

Accept your losses and move forward, but understand this you have already had 18 years of getting beat down and your physical and mental state has taken the blows and you may not believe in yourself anymore. Don't do that to yourself this is not a normal cycle of life. Your H should desire to guard and want to protect you, you are the PRIZE!! don't forget this. 

This type of disfunctionl life just isn't where you are. It's rampant because boys don't grow into the men they should become. You are worth so much more and l know the unknown stirs fear in us all, but as you have shown down deep you have not fully accepted the life style you MIL wants you to live. Good for you! 

Now if you are a believer in God or something greater than yourself, draw the will and strength from it. Do not let yourself become another casualty of love lost, because if H did Love you first then he would fight for you. 

Set down your new expectations down for you H and if you don't follow through with the threat's of the ultimate, ( leaving him) don't do it! it will only strengthen his resolve that his life choices of his family will always come first. Now when and if your able to put into play a new life with him and he is with you it will be worth the chance. ( Because of your love for him).

But most of all do this for yourself and your future with this man. If not then remain in the cycle of misery, because it will never go away. It a inbred of sorts. And will come at great cost YOU!! and your sanity of a belief, of a love and joyful marriage. People can not be happy with money it only creates envy, lack of trust and honor. Because they put it first and above all things.

Which do you prefer a life of love and honor, or of false promises and wishful thinking. The time has come for Truth. And do keep on this fourm we are here to help and support you.

Tilted


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## MILProblems

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I must have zero tolerance for man bull**** anymore, because any man who threatens me with divorce or claims it's coming down the pike because I haven't treated him like the Demi-god he is to his lunatic mother's satisfaction - would get *exactly* what he claims is coming.
> 
> A brand new shiny, late model divorce. Pfffft.
> 
> OP, you married an emotionally stunted man-child. What the hell is wrong with this guy - is he 8 years old or something? "My parents are more important to me than YOU are! Nanner nanner!" How on EARTH you've stood this **** show for 18 years literally boggles my mind.
> 
> Unless that inheritance he's getting is a castle in Bordeaux France worth millions or 40 pounds in gold bullion bars, I honestly can't think of one positive reason to stay in Dysfunction Junction. I honestly can't.


His mother has never approved of anything he's done, so I know he's seeking her approval. 

I love him, but I'm tired of feeling like I have to fight to be recognized as a person with value in his family.


sa58 said:


> Sorry that you have been going through
> this for 16 years.
> 
> How old are you and your husband ?
> Do you have any children ?
> 
> I agree with Diana7, he has never truly
> left home. His mother sounds like the type
> that will never be happy for him. Who he married
> or what ever he does. That may be where part of his
> anger comes from. You said that when he had a job
> that required travel things got better. He was away
> from the entire situation then.
> 
> He needs to grow up stand up and decide his own
> life. He can not keep trying to balance things between
> mommy dearest and you. Counseling may help with this.
> His life and his decisions affect a lot more than him.
> 
> I would caution you about lowering yourself down to their
> level. Not giving her a mothers day gift etc. Don;t pour gasoline
> on the fire. and give her any reason to complain. I understand the
> hurt and frustration but it is not worth it.


We are in our early 40s, no kids, just three dogs. 

Looking back, no, I shouldn't have done what I did with the check. I just am so tired of catering to her every whim while being forgotten about.


Tilted 1 said:


> Yes, as the above posters have said, it is time to move forward with your life. What a screwed up family. Your H and his family, he is repeating the same traits as his father which is by no means a man and have been repeating the same weak and failing to appease the mother. Because of controlling the reigns with the magic carrot of inheritance of some worth. Is not a way to live but he does.
> 
> If he cannot explain to his family of the cost of living and the need of presents, for the occasions, and the lack of money in your account. With checks bouncing. Shows he is also self serving. You now have become a part of that sick and meaningless cycle of misery. I know 18 years should account for something, but another 18 years of misery just is not worth it.
> 
> Accept your losses and move forward, but understand this *you have already had 18 years of getting beat down and your physical and mental state has taken the blows and you may not believe in yourself anymore*. Don't do that to yourself this is not a normal cycle of life. Your H should desire to guard and want to protect you, you are the PRIZE!! don't forget this.
> 
> This type of disfunctionl life just isn't where you are. It's rampant because boys don't grow into the men they should become. You are worth so much more and l know the unknown stirs fear in us all, but as you have shown down deep you have not fully accepted the life style you MIL wants you to live. Good for you!
> 
> Now if you are a believer in God or something greater than yourself, draw the will and strength from it. Do not let yourself become another casualty of love lost, because if H did Love you first then he would fight for you.
> 
> Set down your new expectations down for you H and if you don't follow through with the threat's of the ultimate, ( leaving him) don't do it! it will only strengthen his resolve that his life choices of his family will always come first. Now when and if your able to put into play a new life with him and he is with you it will be worth the chance. ( Because of your love for him).
> 
> But most of all do this for yourself and your future with this man. If not then remain in the cycle of misery, because it will never go away. It a inbred of sorts. And will come at great cost YOU!! and your sanity of a belief, of a love and joyful marriage. People can not be happy with money it only creates envy, lack of trust and honor. Because they put it first and above all things.
> 
> Which do you prefer a life of love and honor, or of false promises and wishful thinking. The time has come for Truth. And do keep on this fourm we are here to help and support you.
> 
> Tilted


The bolded part is very true. I feel like I'm not worth any effort. 

I'm hoping that counseling can help him see the cycle and that he needs to stand up to her, but I'm not counting on it. I'm formulating what I really want if we divorce, and developing a plan to achieve it.


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## Diana7

To add to my last post, I do know people who have moved right away from toxic parents and its helped immensely. I Mean RIGHT away, too far for you to see them or them to see you. I doubt that he will ever find the guts to stand up to them or be a mature husband, but if you both remove yourselves from the situation it may just work.
My own MIL was toxic and tried to break us up, we had only been married for less than a year, fortunately we lived the other side of the world and after one disastrous visit never went back.


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## Tilted 1

It's been said before on TAM: It is He or She that has the least to lose, has the power. Just think about that over and over will your situation really take a change? I do hope it will work for you but you are going up against the great wall of china.


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## MILProblems

Diana7 said:


> To add to my last post, I do know people who have moved right away from toxic parents and its helped immensely. I Mean RIGHT away, too far for you to see them or them to see you. I doubt that he will ever find the guts to stand up to them or be a mature husband, but if you both remove yourselves from the situation it may just work.
> My own MIL was toxic and tried to break us up, we had only been married for less than a year, fortunately we lived the other side of the world and after one disastrous visit never went back.


Perhaps I should suggest that we move several states away. 


Tilted 1 said:


> It's been said before on TAM: It is He or She that has the least to lose, has the power. Just think about that over and over will your situation really take a change? I do hope it will work for you but you are going up against the great wall of china.


Thanks.


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## MILProblems

We spoke for a bit today, and the latest is that it's not at all about his parents and it's all about how I don't clean, don't help with yardwork, and don't think about him.


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## Yeswecan

MILProblems said:


> Oh, where to start. From the time we met, my MIL has been either hateful or incredibly loving. It started out that she hated me, thought it would be a starter marriage, called me a gold digger, etc. Threatened not to tell H if his grandparents passed away. Neither MIL or FIL showed at the wedding. A year later, one of H's grandparents died, MIL called and opened a relationship. Apologies all around, relationship starts. She demanded much of H's time, I dealt, we moved across the state for work. We would visit, she would get upset when we don't send presents for holidays, just cards. She would forget my birthday or just fail to acknowledge it periodically. Other times, she would remember and send a card and present. I try to remind H about her birthday, mother's day, Christmas, etc., so we have presents and cards for her. We would visit when we could, bringing our dogs if we're spending the night.
> 
> She decided she didn't like the dogs there because of the fur, so only H would visit her for weekends. She and I would talk occasionally, things seemed fine when I see them when we would meet for dinners and such.
> 
> H has never wanted to be involved in money, but when we've had money issues, he gets furious. H threatened divorce over money issues last year, we worked things out. He took a new job that required a decent amount of travel last year, and that seemed to help. His travel had him out of town for mother's day this year, so he and I met his parents a few hours away for all of us. I brought a card for her that we both signed, but didn't think of a gift. My FIL called H the next week and read him the riot act over the lack of a gift. H sent her a check from an account that we don't use frequently. My birthday is at the beginning of June. She didn't acknowledge my birthday, and H and I fought, especially because she flipped out at him the day after my birthday about a trip we were all supposed to take.
> 
> H showed me an email he was going to send that basically said "Yesterday was her birthday." He made me think he sent it but didn't. MIL still didn't acknowledge my birthday, so a month later, I decided that if she couldn't bother wishing me happy birthday, I wasn't going to give her a mother's day present, and made it so there was never any money in the account.
> 
> The check bounced, she told H the week before he was supposed to go out of town for a month. He told me to talk to her while he was gone. I called, she wanted nothing to do with talking to me, so I never apologized or explained. He went to visit them recently, and came back from the trip angry, grumpy, and told me that his parents were more important than me. I finally asked him, because I figured that after the visit he was thinking about it.
> 
> She told him I didn't apologize, and convinced him that maybe he should walk away. She'll pay for an apartment, etc. He wants me to apologize to her. I feel like even if I do, in a month, it'll be something else.


So your boy of a H has not cut the apron strings I see. Your H should be backing you in everything. Your H needs to grow a set and tell his mother that she needs to stay out of his marriage. It will not survive with three in it. If he does not understand this then marriage counseling is in order. MIL is not invited.


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## Prodigal

MILProblems said:


> We spoke for a bit today, and the latest is that it's not at all about his parents and it's all about how I don't clean, don't help with yardwork, and don't think about him.


So is he saying this is the reason he's considering divorce? Is there truth to his accusations? Just need a little clarity here. My guess is he's blowing smoke because he doesn't want to admit to being a mommy's boy. But I could be wrong ...


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## Openminded

That doesn't sound like a battle you're going to win.


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## SunnyT

Soooooooooo.....DO you do those things??

Do you work full time also? Is this a common complaint that he has? Or is this the first time you are hearing of it?


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## MILProblems

Prodigal said:


> So is he saying this is the reason he's considering divorce? Is there truth to his accusations? Just need a little clarity here. My guess is he's blowing smoke because he doesn't want to admit to being a mommy's boy. But I could be wrong ...


He is saying that's the reason. Well, that and the money thing with his mother, and that he knows nothing about our finances. I am not the best housekeeper, but I have been making a concentrated effort to do more. I hate yardwork, and he has always just taken care of the grass and weeding. I do think about him a lot, far more than he probably realizes.

As far as the finances, every time I try to tell him anything, either he tunes it out, changes the conversation, or gets mad. 


SunnyT said:


> Soooooooooo.....DO you do those things??
> 
> Do you work full time also? Is this a common complaint that he has? Or is this the first time you are hearing of it?


I am not the best housekeeper. I hate housework, but have been making sure that the house is clean when he comes home from a trip, have been doing dishes, unloading the dishwasher, doing laundry, etc. It's a common complaint, and I've been working on it and doing far more cleaning. 

I work full-time, plus usually a decent amount of overtime. He leaves before I do, but then he gets home usually at least an hour before me.


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## Tilted 1

MILProblems said:


> We spoke for a bit today, and the latest is that it's not at all about his parents and it's all about how I don't clean, don't help with yardwork, and don't think about him.


Well hell, boo hoo you poor sap (H). I guess he needs to grow up and get a pair! Not to face mommie but figure out that comes with wanting to do things he just doesn't want to do. It don't think he will ever measure up just dump the asshat like yesterday. And go and find a good man, and as you do work on your weaknesses, you know you can do but it will be different do them with joy. Because the new Man you get, you will want too do because he will value you. And you see that in a whole different light.


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## MILProblems

Tilted 1 said:


> Well hell, boo hoo you poor sap (H). I guess he needs to grow up and get a pair! Not to face mommie but figure out that comes with wanting to do things he just doesn't want to do. It don't think he will ever measure up just dump the asshat like yesterday. And go and find a good man, and as you do work on your weaknesses, you know you can do but it will be different do them with joy. Because the new Man you get, you will want too do because he will value you. And you see that in a whole different light.


Yardwork comes with a house, car maintenance comes with a car. He cooks dinner most nights because he gets home an hour before I do. I'm happy to cook when I get home, but he wants to eat right away, so he's decided to take on cooking. I do the dishes.

Our landscaping looks horrible because we haven't figured out what to do. We took it down to soil and mulch a few years ago, and I planted vegetables, and that was fine. His mother didn't like that and gave us Russian Sage, which is fine, except it grows and spreads and looks horribly overgrown. I'm happy to maintain the landscaping if we can get rid of all of that and I can plant vegetables again. I had a purpose in taking care of those, because it was food for us. 

The more I think about it, the more I think divorce may not be horrible. Do I want it? No. Do I think it will be uncomfortable for a while? Yes. Do I think it may be the best way to move forward? Yes. For now, I'll fight for my marriage, but we both have to change for it to work. He's acting like a petulant child demanding his way while I've been understanding about his visits to his parents, his month-long travel overseas to study a language (two years in a row), his hunting trips with his father, etc. 

He's said I can keep the house, so I won't need to worry about finding a place to live with three dogs.


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## Tilted 1

MILProblems said:


> Tilted 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well hell, boo hoo you poor sap (H). I guess he needs to grow up and get a pair! Not to face mommie but figure out that comes with wanting to do things he just doesn't want to do. It don't think he will ever measure up just dump the asshat like yesterday. And go and find a good man, and as you do work on your weaknesses, you know you can do but it will be different do them with joy. Because the new Man you get, you will want too do because he will value you. And you see that in a whole different light.
> 
> 
> 
> Yardwork comes with a house, car maintenance comes with a car. He cooks dinner most nights because he gets home an hour before I do. I'm happy to cook when I get home, but he wants to eat right away, so he's decided to take on cooking. I do the dishes.
> 
> Our landscaping looks horrible because we haven't figured out what to do. We took it down to soil and mulch a few years ago, and I planted vegetables, and that was fine. His mother didn't like that and gave us Russian Sage, which is fine, except it grows and spreads and looks horribly overgrown. I'm happy to maintain the landscaping if we can get rid of all of that and I can plant vegetables again. I had a purpose in taking care of those, because it was food for us.
Click to expand...

Excuses excuses excuses,....

but understand this you have already had 18 years of getting beat down and your physical and mental state has taken the blows and you may not believe in yourself anymore.

That is why I said the above.


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## MILProblems

Tilted 1 said:


> Excuses excuses excuses,....
> 
> but understand this you have already had 18 years of getting beat down and your physical and mental state has taken the blows and you may not believe in yourself anymore.
> 
> That is why I said the above.


You are correct. I think about getting a divorce and dating and all of that, and I think no one else will want me. And yes, whether he and I go to counseling, I am going to start going.


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## Tilted 1

MILProblems said:


> Tilted 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excuses excuses excuses,....
> 
> but understand this you have already had 18 years of getting beat down and your physical and mental state has taken the blows and you may not believe in yourself anymore.
> 
> That is why I said the above.
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct. I think about getting a divorce and dating and all of that, and I think no one else will want me. And yes, whether he and I go to counseling, I am going to start going.
Click to expand...

Imagine, it just could be a blast! Now that you have the experience or a wise woman. Don't sell yourself short.

Have fun with it!


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## Tilted 1

Quote:  and I think no one else will want me. 

This is the brain washing type l was referring too. Your conveniently thinking the way their programming works self doubt.


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## FeministInPink

Prodigal said:


> MILProblems said:
> 
> 
> 
> We spoke for a bit today, and the latest is that it's not at all about his parents and it's all about how I don't clean, don't help with yardwork, and don't think about him.
> 
> 
> 
> So is he saying this is the reason he's considering divorce? Is there truth to his accusations? Just need a little clarity here. My guess is he's blowing smoke because he doesn't want to admit to being a mommy's boy. But I could be wrong ...
Click to expand...

Yeah... I think that the cleaning, yardwork, etc is all just a red herring, a smoke screen, to distract from the real issue. He wants to make YOU the problem in the marriage, so that he doesn't have to acknowledge the reality of the situation and deal with his own issues. He's avoiding responsibility and owning up to his contributions to this situation. And he's identified things that you readily admit to, which makes it impossible to argue with when he brings it up, and HE KNOWS IT--that is completely intentional. It's a passive aggressive way to shut you up and shut down the argument.

But here's the thing. It's not like this is a NEW thing. Someone doesn't all of a sudden become BAD at housekeeping and yardwork, after being good at it all their life. It is a safe assumption that you've always been crap at this stuff, which means that he married you already knowing that you weren't going to keep the house sparkly clean and the lawn manicured. HE MARRIED YOU ANYWAY. If it didn't keep him from marrying you and making a lifetime commitment in the first place, it's not a good reason to break that marriage, is it? (If you're not sure, the answer is NO, it's not a good reason. It's BS.) You didn't do this, you didn't all of a sudden become a bad person and push him away. You're the same person you were before, but now he's trying to use YOU against YOU. How messed up is that? (If you're not sure, it's really ****ed up.)

There are plenty of men whose wives are crap at housekeeping and yard work, and are happily married. It's not a reason for divorce. Why? Because they are mature adults, who love their wives accept their wives for the imperfect person she is, and recognize that she is a good partner, and impeccable housekeeping and landscaping skills are not necessary. They also recognize, as @Diana7 has said, that when you marry, your wife becomes your first priority, and if mom becomes an issue, you establish and maintain boundaries.

If your H hasn't learned this by now, he isn't ever going to learn it. Especially with his attitude towards counseling. Counseling only works if you're receptive and open to other, and he clearly isn't. He is still being controlled by his mother, and will be until the day she dies... and it will only get worse before it gets better.

ETA: And... to say that you don't think about him? I'm calling BS on that one, too, though I have less to go on. First, does he have a recording advice in your head to monitor your thoughts? This is something that is so vague and unquantifiable, it's not really a valid argument. I think this is really code for: "I'm tired of having to deal with your needs, because I don't think they matter. I'm the only one that matters here, and you need to get on the same page."


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## sa58

Testicular fortitude, he has none !!

I asked about kids because sometimes 
people stay together just for that reason.
Rarely works out well. Glad your going to
counseling with or with out him. Mental anguish
for 18 years, you will see it is not you !! It is the 
whole bunch of them, HIM. 

His mother sounded just like the type that never 
approves of anything he does or will ever do. That 
way he never really leaves her. She maintains control
over him and his life. FOREVER. Shame he cannot see 
that, probably never will. You see it now, don't let her 
control your life anymore. 

Stay and fight for your marriage, or go. That is your choice.
Only you can decide how much more you can take. Since he 
is in his forties, he may be unable to change. Or unwilling to.
Just run back home to mommy, the way she wants it to stay.

Excuses, and more excuses is all he can come up with. Really !!
We have four dogs, three cats, and twelve chickens. ( In a coup )
The grass gets cut when it gets cut. ( Riding mower works well )
My wife will cut it if I don;t have time, or I do. I cook, she cooks, 
and we both clean the house and dishes. I like the idea you have 
about growing veggies. We do also. Sounds like you have a good 
head on your shoulders. His is somewhere else, Ask his mother,
she probably controls that also.

Testicular fortitude, he is just going to remain in his misery.
because of his lack of it. Do not allow them to do the same 
to you anymore. Live your life and be happy, if he comes along 
then fine. If not you decide which way you want to go then.

Forty is still young. Your just getting your second wind. 
Counseling will help you see a better life, with or with out 
him.


----------



## snerg

MILProblems said:


> You are correct. I think about getting a divorce and dating and all of that, and I think no one else will want me. And yes, whether he and I go to counseling, I am going to start going.


Why do you think that?

Because being married to a man baby has done that to your confidence.

Get out now.
Give him his divorce.
Stop listening to his excuses.
Let junior go back to mommy.
Live your life free from of stress.

You'll find that once you are out from under the strain of these people, you will flourish.


----------



## SunnyT

snerg said:


> Why do you think that?
> 
> Because being married to a man baby has done that to your confidence.
> 
> Get out now.
> Give him his divorce.
> Stop listening to his excuses.
> Let junior go back to mommy.
> Live your life free from of stress.
> 
> You'll find that once you are out from under the strain of these people, you will flourish.


*^This.*


----------



## Prodigal

MILProblems said:


> You are correct. I think about getting a divorce and dating and all of that, and I think no one else will want me. And yes, whether he and I go to counseling, I am going to start going.


I'd suggest you clear your head and get out there and enjoy life first. I see so many people here who remain in crappy marriages because they are afraid of not finding another partner.

First … What is so godawful terrible about not finding another partner? Second, why not worry about growing into your full potential first and enjoying your own company before seeking some else's?

JMO, but I think if more folks would break the emotional insecurities that keep them tethered to the wrong partner and work on themselves, they'd have a far higher success rate of finding someone else.


----------



## FeministInPink

Prodigal said:


> I'd suggest you clear your head and get out there and enjoy life first. I see so many people here who remain in crappy marriages because they are afraid of not finding another partner.
> 
> 
> 
> First … What is so godawful terrible about not finding another partner? Second, why not worry about growing into your full potential first and enjoying your own company before seeking some else's?
> 
> 
> 
> JMO, but I think if more folks would break the emotional insecurities that keep them tethered to the wrong partner and work on themselves, they'd have a far higher success rate of finding someone else.


^ THIS.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## MILProblems

Prodigal said:


> I'd suggest you clear your head and get out there and enjoy life first. I see so many people here who remain in crappy marriages because they are afraid of not finding another partner.
> 
> First … What is so godawful terrible about not finding another partner? Second, why not worry about growing into your full potential first and enjoying your own company before seeking some else's?
> 
> JMO, but I think if more folks would break the emotional insecurities that keep them tethered to the wrong partner and work on themselves, they'd have a far higher success rate of finding someone else.


For me, I want someone to share my life. I want someone who makes me smile and laugh.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Don’t wait for him, go see a lawyer today. If he already thinks counseling won’t work, don’t waste the money. Set up an appointment and do an initial consultation. Do a couple to get the costs figured out. 

I’d put one on retainer and have him served first. 



Are you from different country or culture than Western practices? Nowadays, it seems like you are weird if you haven’t had at least one marriage or a kid entering a new relationship. Many Westerners do not care about kids or divorces.

You’ll be fine.


----------



## Prodigal

MILProblems said:


> For me, I want someone to share my life. I want someone who makes me smile and laugh.


Nothing wrong with that. Nothing at all. But happiness is an inside job.


----------



## hptessla

MILProblems said:


> His mother has never approved of anything he's done, so I know he's seeking her approval.
> 
> I love him, but I'm tired of feeling like I have to fight to be recognized as a person with value in his family.
> 
> We are in our early 40s, no kids, just three dogs.
> 
> Looking back, no, I shouldn't have done what I did with the check. I just am so tired of catering to her every whim while being forgotten about.
> 
> The bolded part is very true. I feel like I'm not worth any effort.
> 
> I'm hoping that counseling can help him see the cycle and that he needs to stand up to her, but I'm not counting on it. I'm formulating what I really want if we divorce, and developing a plan to achieve it.



Oh my goodness! You're in your 40's, an adult; she's older than that. Boohoo, she didn't get a birthday present or Mother's Day present...is she 4 years old? What can she possibly need as a gift other than a massage to her ego that she's the center of her baby boy's life. The bottom line, as I just found out from my BIL (the one that; never goes to family events and they all whisper about) that my W's entire family has zero respect for me or for his wife because we were able to and chose to stay home with the kids. How shallow.
I was already tired of the underhanded disrespect and the meddling and now I am done with it. My W has never really grown up, just like your H. I don't know if either of them will but I am done with the inconvenience of 'family' beyond our nuclear one. Be thankful you don't have children because MIL would be catering to them the same way she controls your H. That's my puzzle now, how to distance us from MIL while the kids are always glad to go because she overrides any parental rules and spoils them. I may have to bide my time, but the teen years are coming and those little kids won't want to make the 2 to 3 hour drive much longer. I'm a patient man.


----------



## MILProblems

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Don’t wait for him, go see a lawyer today. If he already thinks counseling won’t work, don’t waste the money. Set up an appointment and do an initial consultation. Do a couple to get the costs figured out.
> 
> I’d put one on retainer and have him served first.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you from different country or culture than Western practices? Nowadays, it seems like you are weird if you haven’t had at least one marriage or a kid entering a new relationship. Many Westerners do not care about kids or divorces.
> 
> You’ll be fine.


Why have him served first? Is there a benefit to that legally? 

He has a meeting with one next week, I'm calling tomorrow to set up an appointment with a lawyer recommended by a friend. 

I'm not from a different country or culture. 


hptessla said:


> Oh my goodness! You're in your 40's, an adult; she's older than that. Boohoo, she didn't get a birthday present or Mother's Day present...is she 4 years old? What can she possibly need as a gift other than a massage to her ego that she's the center of her baby boy's life. The bottom line, as I just found out from my BIL (the one that; never goes to family events and they all whisper about) that my W's entire family has zero respect for me or for his wife because we were able to and chose to stay home with the kids. How shallow.
> I was already tired of the underhanded disrespect and the meddling and now I am done with it. My W has never really grown up, just like your H. I don't know if either of them will but I am done with the inconvenience of 'family' beyond our nuclear one. Be thankful you don't have children because MIL would be catering to them the same way she controls your H. That's my puzzle now, how to distance us from MIL while the kids are always glad to go because she overrides any parental rules and spoils them. I may have to bide my time, but the teen years are coming and those little kids won't want to make the 2 to 3 hour drive much longer. I'm a patient man.


She wants to know she's the center of everything, including our marriage. 

I only added to letting him not grow up--for years, I made sure he was awake for work, packed his lunch, packed his coffee, etc. When he was working out of town and home on weekends, I'd cook during the week and would send him back with food, so he would have dinner for the week. I thought I was being a loving, caring W, but I was only allowing him to not grow up and be responsible for any of that.


----------



## MILProblems

His latest is, "I don't hate you. It's not like I'll take any photos and cross out your face." We have a vacation overseas planned for early next year. I suggested that we cancel it or I see about canceling his ticket and taking a friend with me. He suggested that we still go, even if we are divorced. 

I can't. Why would I? If we get divorced, I want him out of my life, because I want my crazy MIL out of my life. Am I wrong to say no to that? Am I wrong to tell him that if we get divorced, I'm not going to tell him when our dogs pass away, because I'm not going to allow him back into my life if he leaves. I don't want to subject myself to allowing him to cause me more pain.

While the 180 plan is meant for dealing with a spouse who had an affair, I think I'm trying it anyway.


----------



## Andy1001

MILProblems said:


> His latest is, "I don't hate you. It's not like I'll take any photos and cross out your face." We have a vacation overseas planned for early next year. I suggested that we cancel it or I see about canceling his ticket and taking a friend with me. He suggested that we still go, even if we are divorced.
> 
> I can't. Why would I? If we get divorced, I want him out of my life, because I want my crazy MIL out of my life. Am I wrong to say no to that? Am I wrong to tell him that if we get divorced, I'm not going to tell him when our dogs pass away, because I'm not going to allow him back into my life if he leaves. I don't want to subject myself to allowing him to cause me more pain.
> 
> While the 180 plan is meant for dealing with a spouse who had an affair, I think I'm trying it anyway.


The more I read this the more I think it’s about money.
He doesn’t want to lose you he just doesn’t want to be married to you. Him suggesting you vacation together even if you’re divorced spells this out. 
Explain to him in words capable of only one interpretation that when you divorce you will be dating other men and if you take a vacation whoever you bring with you is none of his business. 
It’s time he had his eyes opened to the real world and you need to look up the 180 and start implementing it immediately.


----------



## MILProblems

Andy1001 said:


> The more I read this the more I think it’s about money.
> He doesn’t want to lose you he just doesn’t want to be married to you. Him suggesting you vacation together even if you’re divorced spells this out.
> Explain to him in words capable of only one interpretation that when you divorce you will be dating other men and if you take a vacation whoever you bring with you is none of his business.
> It’s time he had his eyes opened to the real world and you need to look up the 180 and start implementing it immediately.


I'd wager money that Mommy Dearest promised him money if we divorce.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

MILProblems said:


> Why have him served first? Is there a benefit to that legally?
> 
> He has a meeting with one next week, I'm calling tomorrow to set up an appointment with a lawyer recommended by a friend.
> 
> I'm not from a different country or culture.
> 
> She wants to know she's the center of everything, including our marriage.
> 
> I only added to letting him not grow up--for years, I made sure he was awake for work, packed his lunch, packed his coffee, etc. When he was working out of town and home on weekends, I'd cook during the week and would send him back with food, so he would have dinner for the week. I thought I was being a loving, caring W, but I was only allowing him to not grow up and be responsible for any of that.


 He told you what he thinks and what won’t work, why wait? What purpose does it serve? How does it help you move forward? Limbo sucks. Take control of your life. You follow what your lawyer says and if he says go, then have him served first.

This is not a game, this is your life. His mom is running your life, don’t let her or the inheritance run your life anymore.


----------



## .339971

She sounds beyond horrible and overbearing and there probably isn't anything he's ever done in his entire life that's been good enough for her. And she's a hypocrite. She expects but won't give. Since you've said that you feel he isn't unwilling to change nor stand up to her she'll probably get what she wants. Divorce isn't ever easy, but if his inheritance is more important, so be it. Easier said than done, sure, but sometimes you have to put yourself first. But I really do hope it works out for you.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

It seems you have been pushed out of your husbands life for a long time... you can blame your MIL if you wish but the true weak link is one who who is directly connected to you. 

Being loved in not a convenience, it is a deliberate show of actions from one who has true respect and shows that respect by putting balance in all things that would affect that.

After 18 years together, he has learned that he can treat you poorly and you will still put up with it... that is not him, that is you because we teach people how to treat us... we all own that, even I when I was willing to subject myself to a most unmindful past marriage. That fear and hostility we face is the boundary where their respect ends and it hurts to think of how poorly things have dissolved to land there, but the truth is often a tough reality.

Time to think about calmly removing yourself from anyone and anything that hurts you more than they love you... you have tried for years to make this codependency better in his emotional addictions, you cannot fix this and frankly, it is not your job.

I know how hard divorce in the face of best effort can be, but only fear keeps us from taking that next logical step of loving ourselves more.

And that is what your job is, loving yourself more to end this suffering cycle and step forth with a new breath and a new focus... trust me, a loving partner is waiting to be discovered.

Especially when that loving partner is you.


----------



## FeministInPink

MILProblems said:


> His latest is, "I don't hate you. It's not like I'll take any photos and cross out your face." We have a vacation overseas planned for early next year. I suggested that we cancel it or I see about canceling his ticket and taking a friend with me. He suggested that we still go, even if we are divorced.
> 
> I can't. Why would I? If we get divorced, I want him out of my life, because I want my crazy MIL out of my life. Am I wrong to say no to that? Am I wrong to tell him that if we get divorced, I'm not going to tell him when our dogs pass away, because I'm not going to allow him back into my life if he leaves. I don't want to subject myself to allowing him to cause me more pain.
> 
> While the 180 plan is meant for dealing with a spouse who had an affair, I think I'm trying it anyway.


It isn't wrong to want him out of your life when your marriage ends, and it is perfectly healthy and in your rights to say, "No, I will not be taking a vacation with my ex-husband." I think he's a little crazy to suggest that you two take this vacation together after you are divorced, or in mid-divorce. 

Definitely do the 180. It will help you to get through all of this, and establish who you are without a partner, and will help with some of the confidence and other issues you're facing right now.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

I’ll say it, he is trying to make himself look like the good guy.

If he remains nice, you might not fight for what you DESERVE. I am not saying be vindictive or get payback, but I’ve seen too many people settle on TAM and in life. No, let the courts or mediators decide, with your input of course, not his or your emotions.


----------



## MILProblems

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I’ll say it, he is trying to make himself look like the good guy.
> 
> If he remains nice, you might not fight for what you DESERVE. I am not saying be vindictive or get payback, but I’ve seen too many people settle on TAM and in life. No, let the courts or mediators decide, with your input of course, not his or your emotions.


Trust me, I have no intention of not fighting for what I deserve and want. He can be nice, but I'm still going to fight for what I deserve.

Tonight, I ran to the grocery store without saying anything to him, came home, and got started on cooking my dinner. He asked where I had been, and said he thought I would've told him I was leaving. I just said, "I figured you'd hear the car." He asked what he could do to help with dinner, so I shared dinner like I would with a housemate. 

After dinner, I did the dishes, changed the sheets on my bed, and got ready for bed. No sharing anything, no asking him to come to bed, etc. 

I do find it humorous that of the three dogs, the two boys want to be by me all the time. He wanted one to go to the spare room with him, but he refused.


----------



## frusdil

MILProblems said:


> We spoke for a bit today, and the latest is that it's not at all about his parents and it's all about how I don't clean, don't help with yardwork, and don't think about him.





MILProblems said:


> He is saying that's the reason. Well, that and the money thing with his mother, and that he knows nothing about our finances. I am not the best housekeeper, but I have been making a concentrated effort to do more. I hate yardwork, and he has always just taken care of the grass and weeding. I do think about him a lot, far more than he probably realizes.
> 
> As far as the finances, every time I try to tell him anything, either he tunes it out, changes the conversation, or gets mad.
> 
> 
> I am not the best housekeeper. I hate housework, but have been making sure that the house is clean when he comes home from a trip, have been doing dishes, unloading the dishwasher, doing laundry, etc. It's a common complaint, and I've been working on it and doing far more cleaning.
> 
> I work full-time, plus usually a decent amount of overtime. He leaves before I do, but then he gets home usually at least an hour before me.


You both work full time, the cleaning and yard work should be shared or outsourced. Tell him to hire a damn cleaner and mower if he's that upset about it.



MILProblems said:


> I'd wager money that Mommy Dearest promised him money if we divorce.


If that is the case, and he divorces you he is a dead set bastard. An absolute bastard. Why would anyone want to be married to that?

My username stands for FRUStrated Daughter In Law. My MIL is a real peach, lol. At first she was the problem, but as time has gone on, it's my husband who is now the problem. The problems continue because HE allows them to. This is literally the only issue in our marriage - it's what brought me to TAM, my bloody MIL. Now the SIL has jumped on her bandwagon.

My husband morphs into a snivelling little boy around his mother and it's such a turn off. I've told him this and the problem still continues. Pretty much the main reason I haven't left is because his solution to keeping harmony in our home so far has been not to see them. When he was still seeing them I couldn't get past the feeling of betrayal every time he went, and we would argue in the lead up to his visit and again when he returned home. 

Don't get me wrong - I want him to have a relationship with his parents, and given that they are elderly he needs to take steps to repair things asap, and I keep reminding him of this. But I need him to put them back in their box and tell them to stay in their lane, until he does that I don't want him spending time with them, because doing so tells them that he is fine with the way they treat me, and that is not ok with me. He isn't able to speak up to them as of yet, so here we are.

Again, the problem is your husband, not his mother. If he won't go to counselling and has already booked a lawyer appointment, then it's pretty clear what his intentions are. Protect yourself and your interests now.


----------



## MILProblems

frusdil said:


> You both work full time, the cleaning and yard work should be shared or outsourced. Tell him to hire a damn cleaner and mower if he's that upset about it.
> 
> 
> 
> If that is the case, and he divorces you he is a dead set bastard. An absolute bastard. Why would anyone want to be married to that?
> 
> My username stands for FRUStrated Daughter In Law. My MIL is a real peach, lol. At first she was the problem, but as time has gone on, it's my husband who is now the problem. The problems continue because HE allows them to. This is literally the only issue in our marriage - it's what brought me to TAM, my bloody MIL. Now the SIL has jumped on her bandwagon.
> 
> My husband morphs into a snivelling little boy around his mother and it's such a turn off. I've told him this and the problem still continues. Pretty much the main reason I haven't left is because his solution to keeping harmony in our home so far has been not to see them. When he was still seeing them I couldn't get past the feeling of betrayal every time he went, and we would argue in the lead up to his visit and again when he returned home.
> 
> Don't get me wrong - I want him to have a relationship with his parents, and given that they are elderly he needs to take steps to repair things asap, and I keep reminding him of this. But I need him to put them back in their box and tell them to stay in their lane, until he does that I don't want him spending time with them, because doing so tells them that he is fine with the way they treat me, and that is not ok with me. He isn't able to speak up to them as of yet, so here we are.
> 
> Again, the problem is your husband, not his mother. If he won't go to counselling and has already booked a lawyer appointment, then it's pretty clear what his intentions are. Protect yourself and your interests now.


I agree that cleaning should be outsourced. I've pushed for that for years, and if/when he leaves, that will probably be one of the first things I do... Pay someone to clean. 

I stopped arguing about him seeing his parents ages ago. Maybe I should've argued about it more, but I figured it was a good thing that he'd see them, and would show I was being supportive. 

He agreed to go to counseling, but says that we need to decide by Christmas. I suggested that we'll try counseling, but he has to give counseling 100%. We'll see how that goes.

I don't get why some MILs want to cause problems.


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## MILProblems

I'm enjoying this 180 plan. I slept in this morning, thought nothing of getting up to get his lunch packed. Worked late, picked up food for dinner. He called while I was waiting on the check, I didn't answer. He can talk to me when I want to talk, not when he wants to talk. 

Did get consults scheduled with lawyers, and set up an appointment for counseling. Tomorrow, I'll call MIL and apologize but put much of it back on her for her lack of common courtesy towards me.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Seriously, it is your life, but screw counseling unless it is free. Anyone who sets a hard deadline isn’t in it for help.


----------



## frusdil

MILProblems said:


> I agree that cleaning should be outsourced. I've pushed for that for years, and if/when he leaves, that will probably be one of the first things I do... Pay someone to clean.
> 
> I stopped arguing about him seeing his parents ages ago. Maybe I should've argued about it more, but I figured it was a good thing that he'd see them, and would show I was being supportive.
> 
> *He agreed to go to counseling, but says that we need to decide by Christmas*. I suggested that we'll try counseling, but he has to give counseling 100%. We'll see how that goes.
> 
> *I don't get why some MILs want to cause problems*.


He put a deadline on the counselling? You're just spinning your wheels mate, complete waste of time.

Some MIL's, mine is a case in point, don't like to relinquish control of their little boys. Only they're not little boys - they're grown men. 



MILProblems said:


> I'm enjoying this 180 plan. I slept in this morning, thought nothing of getting up to get his lunch packed. Worked late, picked up food for dinner. He called while I was waiting on the check, I didn't answer. He can talk to me when I want to talk, not when he wants to talk.
> 
> Did get consults scheduled with lawyers, and set up an appointment for counseling. Tomorrow, *I'll call MIL and apologize* but put much of it back on her for her lack of common courtesy towards me.


WTF for???


----------



## MILProblems

frusdil said:


> He put a deadline on the counselling? You're just spinning your wheels mate, complete waste of time.
> 
> Some MIL's, mine is a case in point, don't like to relinquish control of their little boys. Only they're not little boys - they're grown men.
> 
> 
> 
> WTF for???


He put a date on deciding if we're staying together. I do believe that's going to be something that is discussed at our first session and I'll go from there. 

Apologizing for making sure the check bounced so she didn't get a present for Mother's Day.


----------



## frusdil

MILProblems said:


> He put a date on deciding if we're staying together. I do believe that's going to be something that is discussed at our first session and I'll go from there.
> 
> Apologizing for making sure the check bounced so she didn't get a present for Mother's Day.


And where's her apology to you?


----------



## Openminded

Well, technically they're grown men in these situations but unfortunately they actually remain little boys desperately wanting their mother's approval. They don't outgrow that unless they really, really want to and it rarely seems they want to. I was married to one for a very long time.


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## Spicy

As long as his mom remains his First Lady, you never will be.


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## MILProblems

frusdil said:


> And where's her apology to you?


When a certain city in Michigan freezes over...

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


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## MILProblems

Openminded said:


> Well, technically they're grown men in these situations but unfortunately they actually remain little boys desperately wanting their mother's approval. They don't outgrow that unless they really, really want to and it rarely seems they want to. I was married to one for a very long time.


He does want her approval and will never get it. He brings presents back for her from trips, only to be met with, "I wanted X instead of Y" or "Where's this to go with it?" 

If he thinks he'll get her approval with this, he's wrong. It will always be one more, "Do this," until the day she dies. 

The tough part is done. I told my mother we're considering divorce and I apologized to my boss for needing to take time off for appointments this week, but told him why and he's understanding. 

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


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## MILProblems

Met with the first of three lawyers. Next meeting is Thursday, last meeting is next Monday. This one answered most of my questions, made a few recommendations, and also told me that, if his parents are going to pay his legal bills, let him be the one to file, because whoever files pays the fees. 

I have a few other questions, and will decide on an attorney after all three appointments.

I have a phone appointment with a counselor tonight. I'm going to try to schedule an appointment with my PCP tomorrow, as I think I have an ear infection, but also because I may explore asking for meds to help with the initial shock. 

Timeframe if I refuse to be served is one year. If I agree to be served, then we can probably end everything in 90 days. 

My biggest question is what happens if he tries to fight for one of the three dogs. We have three, he would consider fighting for one, because I know him.


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## FeministInPink

MILProblems said:


> He does want her approval and will never get it. He brings presents back for her from trips, only to be met with, "I wanted X instead of Y" or "Where's this to go with it?"
> 
> If he thinks he'll get her approval with this, he's wrong. It will always be one more, "Do this," until the day she dies.
> 
> The tough part is done. I told my mother we're considering divorce and I apologized to my boss for needing to take time off for appointments this week, but told him why and he's understanding.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


If you need time off for self-care and emotional healing, don't be afraid to take time off for that, too. It's in your boss's better interest for your to take the time off you need so you can be fully present and productive when you are at work. If you're falling apart at work, if will affect your performance and that's not good for you OR them.

I hope your mom was supportive.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

MILProblems said:


> Met with the first of three lawyers. Next meeting is Thursday, last meeting is next Monday. This one answered most of my questions, made a few recommendations, and also told me that, if his parents are going to pay his legal bills, let him be the one to file, because whoever files pays the fees.
> 
> 
> 
> I have a few other questions, and will decide on an attorney after all three appointments.
> 
> 
> 
> I have a phone appointment with a counselor tonight. I'm going to try to schedule an appointment with my PCP tomorrow, as I think I have an ear infection, but also because I may explore asking for meds to help with the initial shock.
> 
> 
> 
> Timeframe if I refuse to be served is one year. If I agree to be served, then we can probably end everything in 90 days.
> 
> 
> 
> My biggest question is what happens if he tries to fight for one of the three dogs. We have three, he would consider fighting for one, because I know him.


Ask the other lawyers to verify what the first one said. Always get a second (and in your case, a third) opinion.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## MILProblems

FeministInPink said:


> If you need time off for self-care and emotional healing, don't be afraid to take time off for that, too. It's in your boss's better interest for your to take the time off you need so you can be fully present and productive when you are at work. If you're falling apart at work, if will affect your performance and that's not good for you OR them.
> 
> I hope your mom was supportive.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I will take time. That's basically what my boss said... Let him know how they can help me deal with this and ease my workload if I need time. 

Right now, working gives me a reason to get up, shower, etc. More work means I'm not thinking, and that's not a bad thing.

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## MILProblems

FeministInPink said:


> Ask the other lawyers to verify what the first one said. Always get a second (and in your case, a third) opinion.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I intend on it. I also have a few other questions to ask. 

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## FeministInPink

MILProblems said:


> I will take time. That's basically what my boss said... Let him know how they can help me deal with this and ease my workload if I need time.
> 
> Right now, working gives me a reason to get up, shower, etc. More work means I'm not thinking, and that's not a bad thing.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


Good point. But you also need to tale some time to do some things that make you happy and bring you joy. Maybe some pampering (spa day!) is in order 

And if you need a day to be mopey and cry and overthink things, that's ok, too. Trying to act like everything is ok, go to work, bottling things up/repressing your feelings isn't good for you.

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## aine

MILProblems said:


> Oh, where to start. From the time we met, my MIL has been either hateful or incredibly loving. It started out that she hated me, thought it would be a starter marriage, called me a gold digger, etc. Threatened not to tell H if his grandparents passed away. Neither MIL or FIL showed at the wedding. A year later, one of H's grandparents died, MIL called and opened a relationship. Apologies all around, relationship starts. She demanded much of H's time, I dealt, we moved across the state for work. We would visit, she would get upset when we don't send presents for holidays, just cards. She would forget my birthday or just fail to acknowledge it periodically. Other times, she would remember and send a card and present. I try to remind H about her birthday, mother's day, Christmas, etc., so we have presents and cards for her. We would visit when we could, bringing our dogs if we're spending the night.
> 
> She decided she didn't like the dogs there because of the fur, so only H would visit her for weekends. She and I would talk occasionally, things seemed fine when I see them when we would meet for dinners and such.
> 
> H has never wanted to be involved in money, but when we've had money issues, he gets furious. H threatened divorce over money issues last year, we worked things out. He took a new job that required a decent amount of travel last year, and that seemed to help. His travel had him out of town for mother's day this year, so he and I met his parents a few hours away for all of us. I brought a card for her that we both signed, but didn't think of a gift. My FIL called H the next week and read him the riot act over the lack of a gift. H sent her a check from an account that we don't use frequently. My birthday is at the beginning of June. She didn't acknowledge my birthday, and H and I fought, especially because she flipped out at him the day after my birthday about a trip we were all supposed to take.
> 
> H showed me an email he was going to send that basically said "Yesterday was her birthday." He made me think he sent it but didn't. MIL still didn't acknowledge my birthday, so a month later, I decided that if she couldn't bother wishing me happy birthday, I wasn't going to give her a mother's day present, and made it so there was never any money in the account.
> 
> The check bounced, she told H the week before he was supposed to go out of town for a month. He told me to talk to her while he was gone. I called, she wanted nothing to do with talking to me, so I never apologized or explained. He went to visit them recently, and came back from the trip angry, grumpy, and told me that his parents were more important than me. I finally asked him, because I figured that after the visit he was thinking about it.
> 
> She told him I didn't apologize, and convinced him that maybe he should walk away. She'll pay for an apartment, etc. He wants me to apologize to her. I feel like even if I do, in a month, it'll be something else.



Your husband is a mummy's boy and has absolutely no back bone. A man should leave his mother and father and be cleaved to his wife, the two become one. HIs lack of backbone is creating issues in your marriage and the poison will grow, believe you me. My H did the same thing although is mum was not as bad as yours she was interfering. Now I join them, answer her calls, etc only if I feel like it. I saw the control and damage at the beginning and will not forget it. You need to tell him all of this or let him go, a man who does not stand up for his wife really isn't worth having.


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## MILProblems

FeministInPink said:


> Good point. But you also need to tale some time to do some things that make you happy and bring you joy. Maybe some pampering (spa day!) is in order
> 
> And if you need a day to be mopey and cry and overthink things, that's ok, too. Trying to act like everything is ok, go to work, bottling things up/repressing your feelings isn't good for you.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I intend on it. I sell Perfectly Posh so I have all the stuff to do my own spa day at home for no cost! Had to laugh, as the counselor said the same thing about self-care. 

I have Monday off, so I will meet with an attorney and then take the day for me.

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## MILProblems

aine said:


> Your husband is a mummy's boy and has absolutely no back bone. A man should leave his mother and father and be cleaved to his wife, the two become one. HIs lack of backbone is creating issues in your marriage and the poison will grow, believe you me. My H did the same thing although is mum was not as bad as yours she was interfering. Now I join them, answer her calls, etc only if I feel like it. I saw the control and damage at the beginning and will not forget it. You need to tell him all of this or let him go, a man who does not stand up for his wife really isn't worth having.


I'm figuring that the first few counseling sessions will cover his issues with me (financial, house, etc.), and then we'll get into the MIL issues. 

He did mention that, even if we stay married, he doesn't think his mother will ever talk to me again. Can't say I'm upset. 

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## frusdil

MILProblems said:


> I'm figuring that the first few counseling sessions will cover his issues with me (financial, house, etc.), and then we'll get into the MIL issues.
> 
> He did mention that, even if we stay married, *he doesn't think his mother will ever talk to me again. Can't say I'm upset.*
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


Haha - I'm not welcome at my in laws house until I apologise to my MIL. For what exactly neither my husband and I are sure. Works for me! :grin2:


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## MILProblems

frusdil said:


> Haha - I'm not welcome at my in laws house until I apologise to my MIL. For what exactly neither my husband and I are sure. Works for me! :grin2:


Part of me wonders if we wouldn't be at this point had I just always refused to see her. 

There were times she was very generous. She took me clothes shopping for Christmas one year, gave me money towards vacations, paid for my plane ticket to Hawaii when H was there for work. But, there were a lot of times she was spiteful. They didn't come to H's graduation from college (he dropped out before we met, joined the Marine Corps, then went back to school after he got out) because I "wouldn't let him visit without me." They didn't come to the wedding because she thought we were making a mistake. Multiple years, she didn't wish me happy birthday because he forgot to get a Mother's Day present for her. She would promise him one thing and then deliver another.


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## sa58

Glad you are moving on and taking care of you NOW !!
It hasn't clicked in his head yet and probably never will.
Your done and moving on from their issues. 

Sadly he will remain tied to mommies apron strings, and 
continue to be miserably. I bet if he stood up to her, she 
would back off. No hope of him doing that thou. 

Take care of you, and be happy from now on.

Best wishes moving forward.


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## MILProblems

sa58 said:


> Glad you are moving on and taking care of you NOW !!
> 
> It hasn't clicked in his head yet and probably never will.
> 
> Your done and moving on from their issues.
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly he will remain tied to mommies apron strings, and
> 
> continue to be miserably. I bet if he stood up to her, she
> 
> would back off. No hope of him doing that thou.
> 
> 
> 
> Take care of you, and be happy from now on.
> 
> 
> 
> Best wishes moving forward.


I worry that because he won't deal with t and won't have me to vent to, he'll kill himself eventually, but I can't fix the situation and if he wants me out of it, so be it. 

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## MILProblems

At the end of this journey, I don't know what will happen. However, he is very bothered when I show signs of moving on or cutting him out of my life. I visited my parents this weekend. Before I left, he expressed his displeasure that I didn't ask him if he had plans, I just decided I was going. I think he doesn't like the realization that if we get divorced, he doesn't get to be part of my life. 

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## 3Xnocharm

If a man is willing to divorce his wife because his mommy says so, then that man is NOT a real partner, and there is NOT a real marriage.


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## sa58

MILProblems said:


> At the end of this journey, I don't know what will happen. However, he is very bothered when I show signs of moving on or cutting him out of my life. I visited my parents this weekend. Before I left, he expressed his displeasure that I didn't ask him if he had plans, I just decided I was going. I think he doesn't like the realization that if we get divorced, he doesn't get to be part of my life.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


Maybe if the realization hits him he will stand up
to his mother and begin to live life the way he wants.
That is what he has to do, she will not let go until 
then. 

I had dated for several years before I met my wife.
I lived on my own, by myself.
My mother met some of my girlfriends some not.
When I told my mother I was getting married to
my wife, she said " If you marry her you can't 
come home anymore " I said ok goodbye !! Several 
months later she contacted me and asked to come by. 
I don;t know why she said what she did, but I live my
own life. He needs to do that, not just for his family,
but for himself.

Retired from a great job, still married to my wife.
30 + years later, two sons, and grand kids. ( I spoil them
rotten ) I think I made the right choices. She's a keeper !!
After all she still tolerates me. Sometimes.

If you want to stay with your husband, do so because you
want to. Because you are happy, and feel loved. Live your life
not his for him. If he realizes your leaving, then maybe he will 
change. Maybe not, only he can decide that. 

Live a great and fulfilling life.


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## MILProblems

sa58 said:


> Maybe if the realization hits him he will stand up
> to his mother and begin to live life the way he wants.
> That is what he has to do, she will not let go until
> then.
> 
> I had dated for several years before I met my wife.
> I lived on my own, by myself.
> My mother met some of my girlfriends some not.
> When I told my mother I was getting married to
> my wife, she said " If you marry her you can't
> come home anymore " I said ok goodbye !! Several
> months later she contacted me and asked to come by.
> I don;t know why she said what she did, but I live my
> own life. He needs to do that, not just for his family,
> but for himself.
> 
> Retired from a great job, still married to my wife.
> 30 + years later, two sons, and grand kids. ( I spoil them
> rotten ) I think I made the right choices. She's a keeper !!
> After all she still tolerates me. Sometimes.
> 
> If you want to stay with your husband, do so because you
> want to. Because you are happy, and feel loved. Live your life
> not his for him. If he realizes your leaving, then maybe he will
> change. Maybe not, only he can decide that.
> 
> Live a great and fulfilling life.


If he stands up to her, great. If not, then I'll move on and he can stay with her.


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## Ursula

Your H sounds like he still is tied to his parent’s apron strings, and that he will do anything to please them. Does he want to work on or save his marriage? Your relationship with your MIL sounds much like my former MIL; she was also terrible, and my now XH always sided with her and bent over backwards to help and please her, while our marriage suffered a great deal. We’re now divorced, much to the surprise of his family (I’m not sure why they were surprised), but I’m eternally grateful that I don’t have to deal with both former MIL and SIL any longer. 

Point blank: his parents are toxic to your marriage. If you and he want to stay married, he’s going to have to consider the real possibility of cutting his parents off, or just limiting contact to very unimportant/little things. If he’s not willing to do that, then your marriage is probably going to be more of the same, and is going to be very difficult. Your H isn’t a little boy anymore, and I would think he’d be aware of what his parents are doing and how manipulative they’re being. If not, then they really have pulled the wool over his eyes.


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## MILProblems

Ursula said:


> Your H sounds like he still is tied to his parent’s apron strings, and that he will do anything to please them. Does he want to work on or save his marriage? Your relationship with your MIL sounds much like my former MIL; she was also terrible, and my now XH always sided with her and bent over backwards to help and please her, while our marriage suffered a great deal. We’re now divorced, much to the surprise of his family (I’m not sure why they were surprised), but I’m eternally grateful that I don’t have to deal with both former MIL and SIL any longer.
> 
> Point blank: his parents are toxic to your marriage. If you and he want to stay married, he’s going to have to consider the real possibility of cutting his parents off, or just limiting contact to very unimportant/little things. If he’s not willing to do that, then your marriage is probably going to be more of the same, and is going to be very difficult. Your H isn’t a little boy anymore, and I would think he’d be aware of what his parents are doing and how manipulative they’re being. If not, then they really have pulled the wool over his eyes.


I'm grateful that even if we stay together, my MIL will probably not talk to me again. 

I think he is so focused on getting his mother's approval that he doesn't focus on what she is doing, even though he knows she never gives her approval.


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## Ursula

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Seriously, it is your life, but screw counseling unless it is free. Anyone who sets a hard deadline isn’t in it for help.


I agree with this. After much cajoling about going to counselling and XH saying that he wanted us to work on us first before involving a counsellor (um, yeah, that worked well), I finally said screw it and made an appointment. However, I called the counsellor ahead of time and told her that I wanted to ask my H for a separation at that appointment. She suggested a 2 month separation "deadline". I had no intention of going back to my marriage; I was done. I pretty much just played the card, but in reality, I was relieved and happy to finally be out of the toxicity.


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## Ursula

MILProblems said:


> When a certain city in Michigan freezes over...
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


I'd like to say good for you for apologizing, even though I don't really think you have anything to apologize for to be honest. However, it shows that you're the bigger person in this. If she doesn't apologize to you as well, it will reflect badly on her, no you.


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## Ursula

MILProblems said:


> Met with the first of three lawyers. Next meeting is Thursday, last meeting is next Monday. This one answered most of my questions, made a few recommendations, and also told me that, if his parents are going to pay his legal bills, let him be the one to file, because whoever files pays the fees.
> 
> I have a few other questions, and will decide on an attorney after all three appointments.
> 
> I have a phone appointment with a counselor tonight. I'm going to try to schedule an appointment with my PCP tomorrow, as I think I have an ear infection, but also because I may explore asking for meds to help with the initial shock.
> 
> Timeframe if I refuse to be served is one year. If I agree to be served, then we can probably end everything in 90 days.
> 
> *My biggest question is what happens if he tries to fight for one of the three dogs. We have three, he would consider fighting for one, because I know him.*


Ask your lawyer about this, and what their recommendation would be. This was also a concern for me, as I rescued 2 dogs before I even met my XH, and so they were written into our prenup that if things go south in the marriage, the dogs stay with me. If this is important to you (and I know that it is), be sure to communicate this to whichever lawyer you go with, and actually, this is something good to ask in the initial meetings too. Good luck, and get those furbabies protected!


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## MILProblems

Ursula said:


> I'd like to say good for you for apologizing, even though I don't really think you have anything to apologize for to be honest. However, it shows that you're the bigger person in this. If she doesn't apologize to you as well, it will reflect badly on her, no you.


I called last week to apologize, and she either wasn't home or didn't answer. I left voice mail asking her to call and telling her I wanted to apologize. She's not called back, and based on what H said about how she'll likely never talk to me again, I doubt she'll call and I'm not going to call again.


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## MILProblems

Ursula said:


> Ask your lawyer about this, and what their recommendation would be. This was also a concern for me, as I rescued 2 dogs before I even met my XH, and so they were written into our prenup that if things go south in the marriage, the dogs stay with me. If this is important to you (and I know that it is), be sure to communicate this to whichever lawyer you go with, and actually, this is something good to ask in the initial meetings too. Good luck, and get those furbabies protected!


I met with another lawyer today. She provided some solid advice on everything, including that I can and should start channeling my money into a separate bank account. She suggested that I do that, even if I need to transfer money to our joint account to pay bills. 

On the dog front, in our state, they are considered personal property. She suggested that if H moves out and doesn't take any of them, I not finalize everything for a year. After a year with me, they are considered my property. He would only ever fight for one of them. That one is very bonded to me, but is also bonded to one of the other dogs.


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## MILProblems

I'm convinced he is not thinking. He opened a bank account on Friday (fine) and moved his direct deposit to that. He gave me no warning for any of the bills that come out of his pay, including both of his student loan payments. I guess I'm moving my direct deposit to my separate bank account and changing all of my bills to be paid from that. 

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## FeministInPink

MILProblems said:


> I'm convinced he is not thinking. He opened a bank account on Friday (fine) and moved his direct deposit to that. He gave me no warning for any of the bills that come out of his pay, including both of his student loan payments. I guess I'm moving my direct deposit to my separate bank account and changing all of my bills to be paid from that.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


He's acting on the same advice you were told to act on; open a separate account and put your money into it.

If he's doing that, make sure the payments for the student loans aren't coming from the joint account--make sure he's paying those with HIS money.

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## MILProblems

FeministInPink said:


> He's acting on the same advice you were told to act on; open a separate account and put your money into it.
> 
> If he's doing that, make sure the payments for the student loans aren't coming from the joint account--make sure he's paying those with HIS money.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


True, although I was told to transfer money to the old bank account to pay bills if necessary. He didn't even consider his student loans and that the payment for one is pulled on the 5th of each month. The other is pulled on the 15th, but it takes them a month or two to process any account changes. So, this week, I need to update my bill calendar and tell him that if our joint account gets overdrawn due to his lack of switching things, he gets to pay the fees.


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## Andy1001

MILProblems said:


> True, although I was told to transfer money to the old bank account to pay bills if necessary. He didn't even consider his student loans and that the payment for one is pulled on the 5th of each month. The other is pulled on the 15th, but it takes them a month or two to process any account changes. So, this week, I need to update my bill calendar and tell him that if our joint account gets overdrawn due to his lack of switching things, he gets to pay the fees.


Is there any way that he knows your on tam and is copying what you are being advised to do?


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## Nucking Futs

FeministInPink said:


> He's acting on the same advice you were told to act on; open a separate account and put your money into it.
> 
> If he's doing that, make sure the payments for the student loans aren't coming from the joint account--make sure he's paying those with HIS money.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Also, when you open your own account do it in a different bank. Banks sometimes link accounts without asking.


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## MILProblems

Andy1001 said:


> Is there any way that he knows your on tam and is copying what you are being advised to do?


I doubt it. 

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## Openminded

Just don't get stuck with his personal stuff. That stuff he "forgot" about.


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## Ursula

MILProblems said:


> I met with another lawyer today. She provided some solid advice on everything, including that I can and should start channeling my money into a separate bank account. She suggested that I do that, even if I need to transfer money to our joint account to pay bills.
> 
> On the dog front, in our state, they are considered personal property. She suggested that if H moves out and doesn't take any of them, I not finalize everything for a year. After a year with me, they are considered my property. He would only ever fight for one of them. That one is very bonded to me, but is also bonded to one of the other dogs.


I'm in Canada, and they're considered property here, which I respect, but it still boggles my mind how something that is living, breathing and feeling is considered property. At any rate, this lawyer sounds like she's a good candidate for sure, and that she gave you some good advice. My thoughts are to keep all the dogs together if at all possible. It might sound funny to some, but major life events also affect animals, and if your H thinks that it won't, he's sorely mistaken. If he does try to take one of them, you could always use the argument that he/she is more bonded to you than him, and is really bonded to the other dog as well, and that it would be cruel to separate them. Maybe you can consider him having occasional visitation? This is what XH and I do. I won't allow them to go for overnights, but he walks them every few weeks. It's uncomfortable for me, and I wish it wasn't that way, but it makes the dogs happy to see him, and that's what matters.


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## sa58

You cannot control or change him.
You take care of you, first!!
Watch what he is doing but take 
care of yourself and stuff ASAP.
Lawyer, money, debt etc.

He may say he is doing this or that.
In reality he may not be doing anything.
Probably talking to mommy again.

This hurts but you have given him
18 years of your life. Done hurting !!
Stand up, hold your head up and take 
care of you!!

Sorry you are going through this.


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## MILProblems

The counselor commented about his mother being too involved, not that he wanted to hear it. He ended the session by saying he wants to separate reasonably.

I'm furious tonight because, running the numbers, thanks to his move and pending checks for his activities, the bank account will be overdrawn after paying all of the bills. 

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## jlg07

Why don't you put a stop payment for the checks for "his" activities -- then maybe you will have enough $$ for the bills.
He needs to pay for his own ****.


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## MILProblems

jlg07 said:


> Why don't you put a stop payment for the checks for "his" activities -- then maybe you will have enough $$ for the bills.
> 
> He needs to pay for his own ****.


I think I've decided that I will talk to him tonight and if he doesn't pony up for the bills, I'll stop payment on that check. If I do that, I have $95 to last 2 weeks. At least after that, I'll be able to better budget.


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## MILProblems

I did spend several hours cleaning last night. Packed up books to purge, threw out other things. That felt good.


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## Ursula

Hey @MILProblems, how are you holding up over the past couple days?


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## MILProblems

Ursula said:


> Hey @MILProblems, how are you holding up over the past couple days?


Some moments are fine, others I bawl. Had an appointment with my PCP's PA yesterday and have a new prescription for an anti-anxiety med. Bawled through most of that visit. Last night was fine, this morning has been rough because I'm 95% certain he found a place to live and will be moving out soon. That means divorce papers are probably imminent. 

I'm holding off on asking questions until counseling on Monday. 

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## Ursula

MILProblems said:


> Some moments are fine, others I bawl. Had an appointment with my PCP's PA yesterday and have a new prescription for an anti-anxiety med. Bawled through most of that visit. Last night was fine, this morning has been rough because I'm 95% certain he found a place to live and will be moving out soon. That means divorce papers are probably imminent.
> 
> I'm holding off on asking questions until counseling on Monday.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


I'm so sorry you're going through this.


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## MILProblems

Ursula said:


> I'm so sorry you're going through this.


So am I. I thought that he'd at least try with counseling since he said until December, but I guess that was a lie. 

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## Ursula

MILProblems said:


> So am I. I thought that he'd at least try with counseling since he said until December, but I guess that was a lie.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


I hate to say this, but some men need a mommy instead of a wife. So, no matter who he's with (whether it's you, Betty Sue, Maggie Lou, etc), she will never be good enough in the eyes of his mother, and he will never stand up for anyone to his mother. He, like my ex too, need their mommies, and really have no business in being married. It just sucks for the women who are/were involved with them.


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## MILProblems

Ursula said:


> I hate to say this, but some men need a mommy instead of a wife. So, no matter who he's with (whether it's you, Betty Sue, Maggie Lou, etc), she will never be good enough in the eyes of his mother, and he will never stand up for anyone to his mother. He, like my ex too, need their mommies, and really have no business in being married. It just sucks for the women who are/were involved with them.


The more this goes on, the more I think he does want/need his mommy. One of the things that always seemed really odd to me was that if one of them was using the bathroom at my in-laws' house, and it was more than a quick trip, they'd have no problem about the other walking into the bathroom and talking to them. That just seems odd to me. 

It does suck, but I'll get through it. I'm amazed by the support from my friends and coworkers.


----------



## FeministInPink

MILProblems said:


> The more this goes on, the more I think he does want/need his mommy. One of the things that always seemed really odd to me was that if one of them was using the bathroom at my in-laws' house, and it was more than a quick trip, they'd have no problem about the other walking into the bathroom and talking to them. That just seems odd to me.
> 
> 
> 
> It does suck, but I'll get through it. I'm amazed by the support from my friends and coworkers.


That is weird.

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## MILProblems

He has decided to go to an event instead of counseling on Monday. 

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## Openminded

He was never going to choose you over his mom. It's better that you know this now rather than having him drag it out. I know it's difficult but with time things will improve.


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## FeministInPink

MILProblems said:


> He has decided to go to an event instead of counseling on Monday.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


He clearly has no interest in saving this marriage. Start the 180 and plan for your life without him. You will be so much better off.

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## MILProblems

FeministInPink said:


> He clearly has no interest in saving this marriage. Start the 180 and plan for your life without him. You will be so much better off.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I've already started it. I have to wonder what Mommy Dearest promised him... 

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## FeministInPink

MILProblems said:


> I've already started it. I have to wonder what Mommy Dearest promised him...
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


A man who would do that, and let his mother manipulate him and interfere in such a way, is not a man worth having.

Make sure your lawyer gets you what you deserve. And stick to the 180, it will help immensely.

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## MILProblems

FeministInPink said:


> A man who would do that, and let his mother manipulate him and interfere in such a way, is not a man worth having.
> 
> Make sure your lawyer gets you what you deserve. And stick to the 180, it will help immensely.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I'm confident my lawyer will get what I deserve. She was highly recommended and knows her stuff.


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## MILProblems

In other news, we went to a sportsmen's bingo at a volunteer fire company last night. I paid for the tickets and ended up winning a rifle he really wants. Odds that he tries to argue for it in a divorce? He'll get it only if he pries it from my cold, dead hands!


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## Tilted 1

MILProblems said:


> In other news, we went to a sportsmen's bingo at a volunteer fire company last night. I paid for the tickets and ended up winning a rifle he really wants. Odds that he tries to argue for it in a divorce? He'll get it only if he pries it from my cold, dead hands!


Wow just wow so much anger and hate. It's good you moving on, revenge is telling of your state of mind. Yes l read the whole thread. Do get some IC and put it into the divorce papers.


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## FeministInPink

MILProblems said:


> In other news, we went to a sportsmen's bingo at a volunteer fire company last night. I paid for the tickets and ended up winning a rifle he really wants. Odds that he tries to argue for it in a divorce? He'll get it only if he pries it from my cold, dead hands!


Think of it as leverage to get something you want that he might be holding out on. Like the third dog he will want.

I mean, do you really want a rifle? I know you're angry right now, which is understandable. But keep in mind... it's in your best interest to keep this amicable, in spite of your emotions. If you and he can keep things civil and not fight over petty things, it will be easier on you both both logistically and psychologically, and you will be able to get through this as quickly as possible.

If you let your anger control you, and you decide to be petty (which, TBH, the post above is quite petty), this whole thing will drag out and will be more traumatic than it needs to be.

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## MILProblems

FeministInPink said:


> Think of it as leverage to get something you want that he might be holding out on. Like the third dog he will want.
> 
> I mean, do you really want a rifle? I know you're angry right now, which is understandable. But keep in mind... it's in your best interest to keep this amicable, in spite of your emotions. If you and he can keep things civil and not fight over petty things, it will be easier on you both both logistically and psychologically, and you will be able to get through this as quickly as possible.
> 
> If you let your anger control you, and you decide to be petty (which, TBH, the post above is quite petty), this whole thing will drag out and will be more traumatic than it needs to be.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I said what I did about the rifle because in actually do want it. I've wanted that rifle for years but never could justify buying it. 

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## Ursula

MILProblems said:


> I've already started it. I have to wonder what Mommy Dearest promised him...
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


Whatever it is, I'm sure that in time he'll realize the mistake he made by choosing his mother.


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## Ursula

FeministInPink said:


> Think of it as leverage to get something you want that he might be holding out on. Like the third dog he will want.
> 
> I mean, do you really want a rifle? I know you're angry right now, which is understandable. But keep in mind... it's in your best interest to keep this amicable, in spite of your emotions. If you and he can keep things civil and not fight over petty things, it will be easier on you both both logistically and psychologically, and you will be able to get through this as quickly as possible.
> 
> If you let your anger control you, and you decide to be petty (which, TBH, the post above is quite petty), this whole thing will drag out and will be more traumatic than it needs to be.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I agree with what FIP says above. Use the rifle as a bargaining chip for the other dog he wants, but don't just hold onto it because it will upset him. Stooping down to his and his mother's levels isn't a good thing.


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## MILProblems

Ursula said:


> I agree with what FIP says above. Use the rifle as a bargaining chip for the other dog he wants, but don't just hold onto it because it will upset him. Stooping down to his and his mother's levels isn't a good thing.


If I didn't want the rifle, I'd use it as a bargaining chip, but I do want it. 

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## Ursula

MILProblems said:


> If I didn't want the rifle, I'd use it as a bargaining chip, but I do want it.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


That’s fair, and if he wants the dog, then I guess you have a decision to make on which is more important to you, unless you have a really good lawyer or a bargaining chip that you’re willing to use.


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## 3Xnocharm

If you are going to divorce, why does it even matter if he gets another dog? Just curious...


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## MILProblems

3Xnocharm said:


> If you are going to divorce, why does it even matter if he gets another dog? Just curious...


No, the issue is he will want to take one of our dogs and I happen to be very bonded to said dog.

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## FeministInPink

MILProblems said:


> No, the issue is he will want to take one of our dogs and I happen to be very bonded to said dog.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


You can buy another rifle, but you can't replace that dog. Which one do you want more? 

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## MILProblems

FeministInPink said:


> You can buy another rifle, but you can't replace that dog. Which one do you want more?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


 The dog.


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## MILProblems

Our second counseling session was tough and challenging. I expressed my feelings of being hurt that he won't call out his mother on her bad behavior, won't prioritize me over her, etc. His understanding of it was that I am "envious" of his relationship with his family and want him to not spend time with them. Where did he get that?


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## Andy1001

MILProblems said:


> Our second counseling session was tough and challenging. I expressed my feelings of being hurt that he won't call out his mother on her bad behavior, won't prioritize me over her, etc. His understanding of it was that I am "envious" of his relationship with his family and want him to not spend time with them. Where did he get that?


He got it from his mother.


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## FeministInPink

MILProblems said:


> The dog.


Well, there you go!

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## FeministInPink

MILProblems said:


> Our second counseling session was tough and challenging. I expressed my feelings of being hurt that he won't call out his mother on her bad behavior, won't prioritize me over her, etc. His understanding of it was that I am "envious" of his relationship with his family and want him to not spend time with them. Where did he get that?


Frequently, people hear what they want to hear--not what is actually being said/communicated.

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## MILProblems

FeministInPink said:


> Frequently, people hear what they want to hear--not what is actually being said/communicated.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


The therapist tried explaining to him my feelings, and I'm hoping he listened to what she was saying. When I said about being upset that when we screw up and don't get her a Mother's Day present, she takes it out on me, the therapist interrupted to point out that we didn't screw up, it is his mother's unrealistic expectations that caused this.


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## FeministInPink

MILProblems said:


> The therapist tried explaining to him my feelings, and I'm hoping he listened to what she was saying. When I said about being upset that when we screw up and don't get her a Mother's Day present, she takes it out on me, the therapist interrupted to point out that we didn't screw up, it is his mother's unrealistic expectations that caused this.


When my XH and I were in counseling before we agreed to separate, even with the counselor "translating" my XH still only heard what he wanted to hear. When someone's mind is set, they can have all the evidence in the world in front of their face and will still refuse to acknowledge it, and may be even more determined that they are right. That is the magic of the human mind :/

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## Openminded

You're hoping he's going to wake up because someone besides you is telling him this. But don't underestimate the power his mother has. It takes a very strong person to break that power. Most people aren't strong enough to do it.


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## MILProblems

FeministInPink said:


> When my XH and I were in counseling before we agreed to separate, even with the counselor "translating" my XH still only heard what he wanted to hear. When someone's mind is set, they can have all the evidence in the world in front of their face and will still refuse to acknowledge it, and may be even more determined that they are right. That is the magic of the human mind :/
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


You may be right. 


Openminded said:


> You're hoping he's going to wake up because someone besides you is telling him this. But don't underestimate the power his mother has. It takes a very strong person to break that power. Most people aren't strong enough to do it.


I'm hoping he's strong enough.

I'm visiting a friend out of town later this month, and part of me fears he is going to move out while I'm out of town. At the same time, that may be the best time, because he avoids any drama.


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## Openminded

He's unlikely to choose you over her at this point. Hopefully, you have a plan ready because I think you'll need it.


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## MILProblems

Openminded said:


> He's unlikely to choose you over her at this point. Hopefully, you have a plan ready because I think you'll need it.


I've had a plan since meeting with the lawyer. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.


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## MILProblems

I figured I should post an update. We've been going to counseling, and I've been seeing a counselor on my own. I can definitely tell when he hasn't talked to his mother in a while, as he is different when he does talk to her. 

He'll be gone for much of November (was gone for a week, home for almost a week, and left today to go hunting with his father until after Thanksgiving). We booked a trip to Paris for February, and our counselor agrees that he's confusing, in that he makes comments about travel, taking care of my car, etc., and then says he wants a divorce. 

We've separated our bank accounts/paychecks, which has taken a bit of adjustment for me, but it's forcing me to budget, which isn't horrible.


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