# What to do when one partner is infertile and you want a family?



## WhoHaveIBecome

This is just a hypothetical question after the fact and I am curious for what the consensus is on this. Lets say it is important for you to have children and a family. A family that preferably involved biological children. Say your spouse/partner cannot have children for whatever reason (infertility, low sperm count, etc). What should the partner that wants and can have children do? 

Should they just accept adoption or pursue unconventional methods (i.e. in vitro/surrogate/etc)? Divorce/Separate? Should they accept not having children? 

This was the issue that plagued my first marriage and I handled it poorly (to say the least). I know what I chose to do in this situation was the wrong decision. I am not advocating it at all. I am curious as to what the "right" decision would have been.


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## unbelievable

The world is full of precious kids who need parents. Adopt.


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## Coffee Amore

Before my husband and I started a family we decided if we couldn't have biological children, we would adopt. Two of my closest friends have adopted children - domestic and abroad. If I had been infertile, we would pursue all avenues - IVI, gestational surrogate, IVF, etc. If those methods didn't work, we would have adopted children. 

I haven't come across anyone who I mesh well with as my husband. I wouldn't give him up simply because for whatever reason he couldn't have a biological child with me. That would be like cutting off my nose to spite my face. My husband is more than a sperm donor. He's so, so much more and I would deeply regret all his wonderful attributes if I let him go for not creating a biological child together.


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## unbelievable

My son is adopted but he's been mine since he was 3. He's 31, now and just got married last weekend. I've also got two biological daughters. Kids don't need to check their DNA to know who their parents are. If you love and care for kids, they're your children, regardless of how you got them. I think God fixes things so some very special people can't naturally have kids just because He loves and wants to provide for children who don't have parents. DNA doesn't make families but love does.


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## DawnD

Coffee Amore said:


> Before my husband and I started a family we decided if we couldn't have biological children, we would adopt. Two of my closest friends have adopted children - domestic and abroad. If I had been infertile, we would pursue all avenues - IVI, gestational surrogate, IVF, etc. If those methods didn't work, we would have adopted children.
> 
> I haven't come across anyone who I mesh well with as my husband. I wouldn't give him up simply because for whatever reason he couldn't have a biological child with me. That would be like cutting off my nose to spite my face. My husband is more than a sperm donor. He's so, so much more and I would deeply regret all his wonderful attributes if I let him go for not creating a biological child together.


 I think that was very beautifully stated! I can no longer carry a baby to term. My body just can't do it. My H got a vasectomy to prevent us from having to go through any more miscarriages. I don't really have a clear reason why, but my body just couldn't do it anymore. I had my two boys, and after that it just stopped working. We agreed that if either of us decided we wanted more kids after his V we would simply adopt. If he walked up to me right now and said he wanted more, we would start the process immediately.


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## WhoHaveIBecome

My intention was not at all to be offensive. It was a mistake on my part if I seemed dismissive of adoption. It can be a great thing and I have a lot of respect for people that adopt children. 

This question was more posed to something that I went through about three years ago with my ex-wife. I have a daughter (biological) now and we aren't considering adoption. 

I know adoption isn't for me anyways. At the time my ex and I considered it but we both had deep reservations over the process. I can't really explain my hesitation with adoption but it is really important for me that my kids be mine. My ex shared those issues and she wanted to go through the whole experience of motherhood and childbirth. We ended up going the route of trying fertility treatment and a whole number of other things with no success. We thought about adoption as a last resort when those things didn't work out but the marriage ended prior to us getting to that point. 

I guess what I am trying to say is I may have let my personal preference for biological children affect me when I was writing the question. I don't want to sound like adoption is some horrible choice but for us it wasn't an option we liked or wanted. But its different for every couple. 

I don't want to get off-track but I do disagree with your "blood is nothing" statement. Adoptive children are constantly looking for their bio-parents. When I see my daughter I always notice my features in her. I love that. There are a lot of other things. I think I feel a sort of natural urge to protect my daughter because I know she is part of me. I'm not sure I would feel that towards any random child. 

And the point that Casey Anthony was a biological parent and awful isn't really a great one. There are thousands of foster and adoptive parents that sexually abuse children. Doesn't mean all foster and adoptive parents are bad. You cannot use one person as an example of why something is right or wrong.


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## Gratitude

Adopting a child is just as fulfilling and loving as having a biological child. It's giving a child a home who needs one. I've worked with many homeless juveniles, and lived with many in hostels when I was younger. They can be tough kids to handle if their older due to prior abuse and it takes a very special person to give that kind of love.

Most people have a natural desire for biological children of their own. It's normal and nothing to be condemned for.


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## Coffee Amore

If my husband wanted to divorce me because I was infertile, I'd know exactly what sort of character he has. I'd know his commitment to me wasn't that strong. 

OP, suppose tests revealed that you carried a gene that would make your child extremely disabled, would it be acceptable for your then wife to pack her bags and leave? Suppose you developed a serious medical condition after getting married, would it be acceptable for your then wife to pack her bags and leave? 

When you marry someone you make a big commitment to them. You marry for better for worse, in sickness and in health. OP, your first wife (the one you cheated on with a younger woman and impregnated her) was infertile. Welcome to Life. There are no guarantees. There are many ways to become a parent, but not many ways to find the person who you want to spend the rest of your life with.


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## DawnD

Gratitude said:


> Most people have a natural desire for biological children of their own. It's normal and nothing to be condemned for.


 I agree that you shouldn't be condemned for wanting a biological child. But I also believe those who are obsessed with a child having to be biological and never happy with anything less probably need some form of therapy. 

The OP has mentioned that he would give his life for his daughter, yet wasn't sure if he would do that for a random child. That in itself makes me question his character. If I saw a child in danger or at risk I would do everything in my power to help. not stand by and say "oh, not mine, sorry".


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## Beowulf

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> Adoptive children are constantly looking for their bio-parents.


Again, maybe its the way you are stating things but this statement is so not true. Many adopted children never feel the need to seek out their birth parents. In fact I would say the majority do not. You seem to have a misconception about the adoption process and how it really relates to people.


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## WhoHaveIBecome

> The OP has mentioned that he would give his life for his daughter, yet wasn't sure if he would do that for a random child. That in itself makes me question his character. If I saw a child in danger or at risk I would do everything in my power to help. not stand by and say "oh, not mine, sorry".


That is not what I said. What I said is I feel a natural urge to protect my daughter and I think part of that is because I know she is half me. I would help a child at danger or risk too. I just don't feel that same protective urge to random children. 



> OP, suppose tests revealed that you carried a gene that would make your child extremely disabled, would it be acceptable for your then wife to pack her bags and leave? Suppose you developed a serious medical condition after getting married, would it be acceptable for your then wife to pack her bags and leave?


I don't think it would be acceptable to leave in either of those situation. I think what you don't understand is the damage an issue like infertility can do to a previously happy marriage. Its a lot of gloom to be dealing with on a daily basis and some people handle it worse than others. 



> There are many ways to become a parent, but not many ways to find the person who you want to spend the rest of your life with.


I think a lot of this I would stick by my spouse forever is based on being in a happy marriage with your soulmate. Its a lot more complicated when the marriage isn't as healthy. Like I said I am not defending what I did to my first wife. I didn't handle the stress and grief from the infertility situation well at all. I think the affair was my messed up way of coping. If we divorced in year 1 of infertility I think things would have been better for both of us. 



> Most people have a natural desire for biological children of their own. It's normal and nothing to be condemned for.


I know it is. Its just hard to exactly vocalize why its important to you. I think it matters a lot and I would not be comfortable adopting.


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## DawnD

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> That is not what I said. What I said is I feel a natural urge to protect my daughter and I think part of that is because I know she is half me. I would help a child at danger or risk too. I just don't feel that same protective urge to random children.


And that it what I find lacking in you. I have a natural protective urge for children in general. Not just mine, not just my friends. Most of my friends who are parents are the same, and even some who don't have children. That protective urge is towards all children, not just the two I have.

You don't have to like it, but yes I find that lacking in character.


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## SimplyAmorous

I went into my marraige wanting at least 3 kids.... I was envious of my friends having these big boisterous families, I despised being an only child....."I had a dream". 

After me & husband conceived our 1st easily ....it seemed God closed my womb after this ...for years ! He was such a sweet son, I couldn't understand why other parents had so much trouble with their kids, mine was a living breeze..... I wanted more of those!! 

We just really wanted our own.... I wanted a few little peices of ME mixed with my husband.....It was the superier dream that I would have done anything for. 

After many tests, a surgery & still nothing...we were scheduled for our 1st invitro attempt ....amazingly we got pregnant on our own ....saved us a ton! Then baby after baby after baby in our 30's. A little before that though- we started looking into adoption...lighty, I worried alot special needs concerns, these children were readily available. I didn't feel I could handle that, I know my limitations. Of course I took risks having my own. 

If the invitro would have failed, might have tried again -I would have given up our dream for a country home for a shot at another biological child.

I don't think I need therapy for wanting my own biological children. I think that is going a bit too far. There are many concerns when one adopts, you don't know the genetics that are in that family. I do believe it matters ALOT how a child is raised, true, but genetics still has a role to play. It is a roll of the dice. One very worth taking if you are the right people. My Aunt was one, her son, now 35 is a dream, never looked for his biological parents, I do feel girls will have more of an interest.


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## WhoHaveIBecome

> And that it what I find lacking in you. I have a natural protective urge for children in general. Not just mine, not just my friends. Most of my friends who are parents are the same, and even some who don't have children. That protective urge is towards all children, not just the two I have.
> 
> You don't have to like it, but yes I find that lacking in character.


So you feel the same way about a random child on the street as you do about your own son/daughter? I feel like you are being really unfair to me. How is it objectionable that I would feel more towards MY child over a child I don't know at all?


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## DawnD

SimplyAmorous said:


> I don't think I need therapy for wanting my own biological children. I think that is going a bit too far. There are many concerns when one adopts, you don't know the genetics that are in that family. I do believe it matters ALOT how a child is raised, true, but genetics still has a role to play. It is a roll of the dice. One very worth taking if you are the right people. My Aunt was one, her son, now 35 is a dream, never looked for his biological parents, I do feel girls will have more of an interest.



I didn't say everyone who wanted their own biological children need therapy, but I do think those who will cause hurt and pain to other people, including their infertile spouse all for that biological child probably need therapy.


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## SimplyAmorous

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> So you feel the same way about a random child on the street as you do about your own son/daughter? I feel like you are being really unfair to me. How is it objectionable that I would feel more towards MY child over a child I don't know at all?


The people who genuinely feel this way deep deep within their souls are the ones who forgo having their own children by choice....they go above & beyond and look to adopt those who are "waiting childen"....there are such wonderful people in this world. The ones who say this...and have never adopted themselves, I see it as a little bit of lip service personally. 

Do I want to adopt...not really. Those who do..guess what, they are better than I... more loving, more giving even.....but I still don't need therapy!


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## LovesHerMan

I think to answer the question fairly you have to consider what if you were the infertile one of the couple? Would it be OK for your wife to leave you? George and Martha Washington never had their own children. Do you think that Martha should have left George?

We get married for better or for worse. There is medical intervention for infertile couples. If this is unsucessful, then there is a decision to be made. Do you get married just to have children, or are you committed to your spouse no matter what fate has in store for you?

There are no guarantees in life. People of character realize that life may deal them an unfair blow, but they are willing to accept it and move on with grace.


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## DawnD

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> So you feel the same way about a random child on the street as you do about your own son/daughter? I feel like you are being really unfair to me. How is it objectionable that I would feel more towards MY child over a child I don't know at all?


 Yes. All children should be cherished, shown love, and protected. All the children in my neighborhood know me. Most of the children in my kids schools know me. I volunteer a lot with kids. Each and every one of them hold a spot in my heart. I would do anything I had to to make sure they are safe.


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## DawnD

SimplyAmorous said:


> The people who genuinely feel this way deep deep within their souls are the ones who forgo having their own children by choice....they go above & beyond and look to adopt those who are "waiting childen"....there are such wonderful people in this world. The ones who say this...and have never adopted themselves, I see it as a little bit of lip service personally.
> 
> Do I want to adopt...not really. Those who do..guess what, they are better than I... more loving, more giving even.....but I still don't need therapy!


Wrong. I have my own children, and still feel this way in my soul. I have see a lot on this planet, and child abuse/neglect is rampant. I can look at any child and find a place in my heart to truly care about them. You can change a child's world all by giving them some attention and someone to come to when things aren't going well.


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## WhoHaveIBecome

> Yes. All children should be cherished, shown love, and protected. All the children in my neighborhood know me. Most of the children in my kids schools know me. I volunteer a lot with kids. Each and every one of them hold a spot in my heart. I would do anything I had to to make sure they are safe.


Fair enough. I think that is really admirable of you. I don't want to get painted as a child-hater. I love kids too and I would never hurt a child. But for whatever reason I feel more towards my child versus other children. 

My daughter is like a miracle to me. I was convinced for the longest time I would never have children so she is extra-special to me. I'm not sure if that makes things any different but I think it might help explain why I feel the way I do. I would do anything for my daughter. I can't say that I would do anything for any random child at her daycare. Maybe I'm the only person who feels this way though.


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## SimplyAmorous

DawnD said:


> I didn't say everyone who wanted their own biological children need therapy, but I do think those who will cause hurt and pain to other people, including their infertile spouse all for that biological child probably need therapy.


Sorry that is how I took it originally written. I was a living basketcase when I couldn't conceive...I could have treated my husband nicer during that time. So I guess I am guilty too. 

Unless you have walked the infertility road, I wouldn't judge. I did, and I even had one kid...so in it's way, I guess I was really an ungrateful witch! 

I went to a Infertility Retreat, friends with the leader.... where I sat among numerous couples who couldn't conceive, I felt like I didn't belong there...and maybe I didn't..... I felt their pain, the sadness in thier eyes....I cried with them. I planted a tree with them, for the children we all hoped to have someday. Very very difficult road to walk. Whether it is the husband or the wife. 

When that is a DESIRE of the HEART.... it rarely goes away... and sometimes we aren't thinking too clearly....like this poster.


Most difficult in my life. Even the Bible calls the barren womb one of the 3 things that are never satisfied, there is a reason it is compared to the grave. 

Proverbs 30:15-16



> There are 3 things that are never satisfied .
> Four that never say "Enough"
> The Grave, the barren womb,
> Land which is never satisfied with water, '
> and Fire, which never says "enough".


At least I felt GOD understood me during that time , even though when going through it I was mad as hell at Him!


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## DawnD

SimplyAmorous said:


> Sorry that is how I took it originally written. I was a living basketcase when I couldn't conceive...I could have treated my husband nicer during that time. So I guess I am guilty too.
> 
> Unless you have walked the infertility road, I wouldn't judge. I did, and I even had one kid...so in it's way, I guess I was really an ungrateful witch!
> 
> I went to a Infertility Retreat, friends with the leader.... where I sat among numerous couples who couldn't conceive, I felt like I didn't belong there...and maybe I didn't..... I felt their pain, the sadness in thier eyes....I cried with them. I planted a tree with them, for the children we all hoped to have someday. Very very difficult road to walk. Whether it is the husband or the wife.
> 
> When that is a DESIRE of the HEART.... it rarely goes away... and sometimes we aren't thinking too clearly....like this poster.
> 
> 
> Most difficult in my life. Even the Bible calls the barren womb one of the 3 things that are never satisfied, there is a reason it is compared to the grave.
> 
> Proverbs 30:15-16
> 
> 
> 
> At least I felt GOD understood me during that time , even though when going through it I was mad as hell at Him!


Asking, not accusing, this question LOL. If you hadn't been able to conceive again, would you have sought out any way possible to have a child, including leaving him and being impregnated by someone else? Would you risk losing your husband to have that biological child?

I think a byproduct of this thread is the fact that it really does depend on whether or not you are the one unable to produce children.


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## SimplyAmorous

DawnD said:


> Wrong. I have my own children, and still feel this way in my soul. I have see a lot on this planet, and child abuse/neglect is rampant. I can look at any child and find a place in my heart to truly care about them. You can change a child's world all by giving them some attention and someone to come to when things aren't going well.


And I do this as well. My house is filled with children all the time, some practically live there, always the open door...and I want to keep it that way (unless the kids show trouble -then they're booted)... I come home and wonder...hmmm whose shoes are here today! 

I talk to every one of them, and if their life sucks at home, all the more do I care for them, and try to guide them in a good way...to not mess their life up -as they go into these teen yrs where every one seems to go wild & crazy. 

I was a child who had a SUCKY existence at home...my best friends family was more MY family growing up, thank God for them! They were my mentors. I was never physically abused but some might say it bordered "emotional" abuse, the step mom wanted my dad to herself. (We get along great today though) 

What really is the answer to so many unwanted children on this earth? Birth control is everywhere, this doesn't appear to be doing the trick. Some are so irresponsible, it is just plain sad. 

What can we do... but be "examples" for others, show them a better way.


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## WhoHaveIBecome

DawnD Just out of curiosity. If the genetics do not matter at all to you why did you not just adopt children? Why have your own biological children if it makes no difference? Like you said there are many neglected and abused children. Surely it is better to save one of those children than have your own and leave them neglected?


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## that_girl

I'm a teacher and I get 30+ ten year olds a year. I don't know them from adam, but i love them. By the end of the year, I love them like my own children.

You don't know your own child either at birth. Just because you share blood DOES NOT mean you'll bond. Believe me.


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## DawnD

SimplyAmorous said:


> And I do this as well. My house is filled with children all the time, some practically live there, always the open door...and I want to keep it that way (unless the kids show trouble -then they're booted)... I come home and wonder...hmmm whose shoes are here today!
> 
> I talk to every one of them, and if their life sucks at home, all the more do I care for them, and try to guide them in a good way...to not mess their life up -as they go into these teen yrs where every one seems to go wild & crazy.
> 
> I was a child who had a SUCKY existence at home...my best friends family was more MY family growing up, thank God for them! They were my mentors. I was never physically abused but some might say it bordered "emotional" abuse, the step mom wanted my dad to herself. (We get along great today though)
> 
> What really is the answer to so many unwanted children on this earth? Birth control is everywhere, this doesn't appear to be doing the trick. Some are so irresponsible, it is just plain sad.
> 
> What can we do... but be "examples" for others, show them a better way.


I actually had a great family life, but growing up military, we saw a lot of really horrible things going on. To spare one child some of the things we saw is worth all the time in the world.

I don't understand the overwhelming number of unwanted children at all. I do understand bad situations happening ( rape, incest, etc,etc) but I am unsure how many kids in the system are there because of those things. 

We have a boy in my son's SKILLS class ( he is autistic) who is purely there because he is so neglected he can't function in a general education classroom. Breaks my heart. I spend so much time with him and my son trying to build them up so they can get on the train and be in general education. If I ever see his parents I might throw something at them... lol


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## DawnD

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> DawnD Just out of curiosity. If the genetics do not matter at all to you why did you not just adopt children? Why have your own biological children if it makes no difference? Like you said there are many neglected and abused children. Surely it is better to save one of those children than have your own and leave them neglected?


 I do plan on adopting, just not until my oldest (autistic) is more able to function on his own. 

My H wanted to try for some kids, so we tried. We were very lucky with our two boys. He is also very aware of my feeling for adoption and we will be working on that in the next couple of years.


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## SimplyAmorous

DawnD said:


> Asking, not accusing, this question LOL. If you hadn't been able to conceive again, would you have sought out any way possible to have a child, including leaving him and being impregnated by someone else? Would you risk losing your husband to have that biological child?
> 
> I think a byproduct of this thread is the fact that it really does depend on whether or not you are the one unable to produce children.


NO, I would NOT have left my husband but ...had his sperm count been the issue.... I would have gotten donor sperm, Oh yes, that would have been easy, and he wouldn't have minded... Yes, we talked about that. But he was just fine at 195,000 sperm count with excellent mobilty. Our OBGYN told us our Post Coiltal test was the BEST he ever seen in his career. That was pretty neat. 

It was more My issue, after the C-section (they waited to long after my water broke), this caused adhesions to bind up my tubes, like co-webs in my womb, the Laparocopy confirmed this & corrected it..

It is so much harder when it IS the woman.... she generally cares 10 times more than the husband, and makes his life very difficult...most women get depressed. 

I was never the type to get depressed... I get MAD. So I would just rant about not being able to conceive, I would outright tell my friends I was jealous, kinda joke with them -what lucky son of B****es they are. I tried to keep a sense of humor, but I was still pissed off. I think all of my friends were relieved when I finally got pregnant again- so they wouldn't have to hear my mouth anymore. 

I don't feel I could handle his sperm going in another woman...because I would fear she would want that baby (and she has that right)...and that baby would feel an attachment to HER over me, since genetically it would be hers, and not mine. So a surrogate situation I wouldn't have wanted anything to do with.

It is very very sad , even angers me that women have to go through this. Today we are breeding a society on casual sex, as many partners as we want!! This is a HUGE Risk for future fertilty..., as some STD's render a woman infertile. And then some of the women who didn't do a damn thing wrong, has these issues, life is just not fair. 

STD's That Cause Infertility


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## DawnD

SimplyAmorous said:


> NO, I would NOT have left my husband but ...had his sperm count been the issue.... I would have gotten donor sperm, Oh yes, that would have been easy, and he wouldn't have minded... Yes, we talked about that. But he was just fine at 195,000 sperm count with excellent mobilty. Our OBGYN told us our Post Coiltal test was the BEST he ever seen in his career. That was pretty neat.
> 
> It was more My issue, after the C-section (they waited to long after my water broke), this caused adhesions to bind up my tubes, like co-webs in my womb, the Laparocopy confirmed this & corrected it..
> 
> It is so much harder when it IS the woman.... she generally cares 10 times more than the husband, and makes his life very difficult...most women get depressed.
> 
> I was never the type to get depressed... I get MAD. So I would just rant about not being able to conceive, I would outright tell my friends I was jealous, kinda joke with them -what lucky son of B****es they are. I tried to keep a sense of humor, but I was still pissed off. I think all of my friends were relieved when I finally got pregnant again- so they wouldn't have to hear my mouth anymore.
> 
> I don't feel I could handle his sperm going in another woman...because I would fear she would want that baby (and she has that right)...and that baby would feel an attachment to HER over me, since genetically it would be hers, and not mine. So a surrogate situation I wouldn't have wanted anything to do with.
> 
> It is very very sad , even angers me that women have to go through this. Today we are breeding a society on casual sex, as many partners as we want!! This is a HUGE Risk for future fertilty..., as some STD's render a woman infertile. And then some of the women who didn't do a damn thing wrong, has these issues, life is just not fair.
> 
> STD's That Cause Infertility


And it seems completely rational to me, all the things you had discussed with one another "just in case". The people who are committed to staying together and making a family do just that. But those who are obsessed with only having a biological child and sacrifice their spouse for that I think require therapy. That isn't to say that they are crazy for wanting that or for having those thoughts, but thinking that the marriage may not work and throwing your spouse under the bus are two separate things. 

If I were infertile and my H simply left me because I couldn't provide him with heirs, well then I guess that would show me how much I meant to him. That would basically be telling me that I mean nothing to him unless I can reproduce. What an awful way to classify someone you are supposed to love


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## WhoHaveIBecome

DawnD said:


> But those who are obsessed with only having a biological child and sacrifice their spouse for that I think require therapy. That isn't to say that they are crazy for wanting that or for having those thoughts, but thinking that the marriage may not work and throwing your spouse under the bus are two separate things.
> 
> If I were infertile and my H simply left me because I couldn't provide him with heirs, well then I guess that would show me how much I meant to him. That would basically be telling me that I mean nothing to him unless I can reproduce. What an awful way to classify someone you are supposed to love


I think saying someone should get therapy for wanting a biological child is not really fair. It is the normal position to want a biological child. People value different things. How is wanting a biological child any different than wanting a partner who is taller or shorter than you or a partner who shares your religious beliefs? Its just something a person finds important. 

Also I should clarify a little. I'm not sure if the line about a H leaving because his wife was infertile was directed at me or not but if it was... I never did what I did with the express intent of impregnating someone else. I didn't leave my wife and start looking for women who were fertile. That wasn't my plan at all. It happened by accident. Once I was in the situation I did choose my child over my wife. I think that was the hardest decision of my life. I put myself in a wretched situation and I felt that my child and a fresh slate was better than going back to my wife whom I had betrayed and with whom I was unhappy with. 

I think a struggle with infertility can potentially destroy a marriage. Its painful and heartbreaking. People handle trauma in different ways. Some couples come together and thrive under the pressure and others fold and let it destroy them. My marriage was not a happy one by towards the end which complicated things. I think in a happy marriage of course you stay together and fight to overcome. In an unhappy one its a lot tougher of a choice.


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## Gratitude

DawnD said:


> I agree that you shouldn't be condemned for wanting a biological child. But I also believe those who are obsessed with a child having to be biological and never happy with anything less probably need some form of therapy.
> 
> The OP has mentioned that he would give his life for his daughter, yet wasn't sure if he would do that for a random child. That in itself makes me question his character. If I saw a child in danger or at risk I would do everything in my power to help. not stand by and say "oh, not mine, sorry".


Some people only feel they could raise their biological child and that's ok. That's why they shouldn't adopt. Not everybody could and should adopt a child. That's why the process is so gruelling. 

I have seen many foster/adoptive parents fail the child they adopted. Because they weren't prepared and couldn't find the connection. If the OP or anyone doesn't feel they would be willing to do what it takes, don't do it. It's normal to feel that you might not be able to bond with another child that's not yours. Adoptive parents do worry about that too. Sometimes this is overcome, sometimes it isn't. It's honest. I would help any child I could that I saw was in danger, but when it came to adopting I would need to make sure it was something I was mentally prepared for so the child doesn't suffer anymore than they have already.

If somebody doesn't think they could adopt for whatever reason, then that's their choice. I don't think they need therapy. People can only give what they can give, and instead of feeling guilty for that they should know themselves well enough to not make decisions that would affect a child's life. I can't tell you how many kids have been taken into foster homes only to be treated worse.


----------



## DawnD

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> I think saying someone should get therapy for wanting a biological child is not really fair. It is the normal position to want a biological child. People value different things. How is wanting a biological child any different than wanting a partner who is taller or shorter than you or a partner who shares your religious beliefs? Its just something a person finds important.
> 
> Also I should clarify a little. I'm not sure if the line about a H leaving because his wife was infertile was directed at me or not but if it was... I never did what I did with the express intent of impregnating someone else. I didn't leave my wife and start looking for women who were fertile. That wasn't my plan at all. It happened by accident. Once I was in the situation I did choose my child over my wife. I think that was the hardest decision of my life. I put myself in a wretched situation and I felt that my child and a fresh slate was better than going back to my wife whom I had betrayed and with whom I was unhappy with.
> 
> I think a struggle with infertility can potentially destroy a marriage. Its painful and heartbreaking. People handle trauma in different ways. Some couples come together and thrive under the pressure and others fold and let it destroy them. My marriage was not a happy one by towards the end which complicated things. I think in a happy marriage of course you stay together and fight to overcome. In an unhappy one its a lot tougher of a choice.


Again, you are only reading the first half of the sentence. I said when the need becomes so extreme that you are causing hurt and pain to your partner/people in your life. Then yes, it would be wise to seek some therapy to either comes to grips with the infertility, explore options, etc, etc, etc.

The leaving your spouse comment wasn't directed at you, I had asked Simply A about it and she responded above.

It takes two to make a marriage fail just like it takes two to make one succeed.


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## DawnD

Gratitude said:


> If somebody doesn't think they could adopt for whatever reason, then that's their choice. I don't think they need therapy.


Who said they did??


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## WhoHaveIBecome

DawnD said:


> But I also believe those who are obsessed with a child having to be biological and never happy with anything less probably need some form of therapy.


----------



## DawnD

Exactly. Those who are obsessed with it --- i.e. will get a biological child no matter what the cost, their spouse, their family,etc, etc


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## WhoHaveIBecome

Would a person who spends tens of thousands of dollars in pursuit of a bio-child need therapy? You could argue they are obsessed and hurting their family.


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## DawnD

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> Would a person who spends tens of thousands of dollars in pursuit of a bio-child need therapy? You could argue they are obsessed and hurting their family.


If they have the money, then hey its up to them. I am not talking about financials, I am not talking about people whom don't want to adopt. I am talking about people who ruin lives for it. There aren't very many of them out there. But be honest, do you really think you wouldn't have benefited from some therapy during your infertility years with the first wife? I am not talking about "you are crazy" therapy, I am talking about guidance and communication in the relationship therapy.


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## WhoHaveIBecome

DawnD said:


> If they have the money, then hey its up to them. I am not talking about financials, I am not talking about people whom don't want to adopt. I am talking about people who ruin lives for it. There aren't very many of them out there. But be honest, do you really think you wouldn't have benefited from some therapy during your infertility years with the first wife? I am not talking about "you are crazy" therapy, I am talking about guidance and communication in the relationship therapy.


I have a pretty positive view of therapy. It can be helpful and being in therapy couldn't have hurt. I really struggle with looking back at that point in my life. I clearly made some awful life-altering decisions. But I honestly do not know what I should have done. 

Any choice I made would have hurt people. I'm not sure what benefit therapy would have given me at the time. No therapist is going to tell me to leave my wife. It may have helped prevent some of the destructive behavior I engaged in. But then odds are I would just be childless and in an un-happy marriage today. My ex-wife would probably be alive so maybe that was the sacrifice I should have made. I just don't know. 

I think I posed this question to kind of get an idea on what the proper response is to something like infertility. It can be handled in a happy marriage. In an unhappy marriage its like throwing oil on a fire. It just makes things worse.


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## DawnD

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> I have a pretty positive view of therapy. It can be helpful and being in therapy couldn't have hurt. I really struggle with looking back at that point in my life. I clearly made some awful life-altering decisions. But I honestly do not know what I should have done.
> 
> Any choice I made would have hurt people. I'm not sure what benefit therapy would have given me at the time. No therapist is going to tell me to leave my wife. It may have helped prevent some of the destructive behavior I engaged in. But then odds are I would just be childless and in an un-happy marriage today. My ex-wife would probably be alive so maybe that was the sacrifice I should have made. I just don't know.
> 
> I think I posed this question to kind of get an idea on what the proper response is to something like infertility. It can be handled in a happy marriage. In an unhappy marriage its like throwing oil on a fire. It just makes things worse.


 I didn't mean therapy when you had already impregnated the mistress, I meant way before that, when things started going sour. 

Who knows, your paths very well could have still led to divorce, but perhaps your present living wouldn't be plagued by the past if that had taken place.


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## WhoHaveIBecome

DawnD said:


> I didn't mean therapy when you had already impregnated the mistress, I meant way before that, when things started going sour.
> 
> Who knows, your paths very well could have still led to divorce, but perhaps your present living wouldn't be plagued by the past if that had taken place.


If I was in therapy and we were in marriage counseling before the affair started I think we would have patched things up to an acceptable level. So that we weren't unhappy. But not happy. Maybe I wouldn't have had the affair but that wouldn't have solved the root issues of our problems. Therapy isn't going to make an infertile woman fertile. Therapy is probably not going to change my desire for having offspring that are part of me. 

And I think I should note that my ex-wife wanted biological children too. It wasn't just me pushing for it and her saying lets adopt. We both wanted biological children. It was something that we both valued. 

I also know divorce wasn't a realistic option for us. Its not something my wife ever wanted and I don't think I would have had the guts to file for divorce. We were never fighting like animals. It was more just a lack of communication and sadness. It wasn't a happy relationship. But I don't think it was bad enough that one of us would have felt the need to file for divorce. I think if some of the things that happened didn't happen I would still be married but incredibly unhappy with my life and essentially alone. 

I regret the pain and suffering the affair caused my ex-wife. But I don't know if I regret the affair/relationship though. What I should have done is file for divorce once it was clear I had feelings for another woman. I think... But I'm not even sure of that. I really think there were no good choices.


----------



## DawnD

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> If I was in therapy and we were in marriage counseling before the affair started I think we would have patched things up to an acceptable level. So that we weren't unhappy. But not happy. Maybe I wouldn't have had the affair but that wouldn't have solved the root issues of our problems. Therapy isn't going to make an infertile woman fertile. Therapy is probably not going to change my desire for having offspring that are part of me.
> 
> And I think I should note that my ex-wife wanted biological children too. It wasn't just me pushing for it and her saying lets adopt. We both wanted biological children. It was something that we both valued.
> 
> I also know divorce wasn't a realistic option for us. Its not something my wife ever wanted and I don't think I would have had the guts to file for divorce. We were never fighting like animals. It was more just a lack of communication and sadness. It wasn't a happy relationship. But I don't think it was bad enough that one of us would have felt the need to file for divorce. I think if some of the things that happened didn't happen I would still be married but incredibly unhappy with my life and essentially alone.
> 
> I regret the pain and suffering the affair caused my ex-wife. But I don't know if I regret the affair/relationship though. What I should have done is file for divorce once it was clear I had feelings for another woman. I think... But I'm not even sure of that. I really think there were no good choices.


There were good choices. There was the choice to leave your wife when you discovered you would not have biological children with her. It is obvious from all of your posts, that having children was the main thought of your life, wasn't really who was having them with you that mattered. The right thing to do would have been to let your wife go.

I can't ever see someone saying they should have cheated still, but just cheated and left their wife sooner. That is a first. I think this might be where most of those who are seriously slamming you ( browsed some threads of yours, they were pretty interesting). The fact that you don't regret your affair BECAUSE it resulted in the child you wanted so badly is very....telling.


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## EleGirl

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> Adoptive children are constantly looking for their bio-parents.


We adopted our son when he was 10 days old. He is 23 now. He has known that he is adopted from the very beginning as I do not believe in lying to children for any reason.

He came to terms with his adoption before he was 10 years old. I’ve offered to give him the info to contact his birth mother. He says no, he has one set of parents and he already knows them. 
Most adopted children never look for their bio-parents. It’s actually a pretty rare thing.



WhoHaveIBecome said:


> When I see my daughter I always notice my features in her. I love that. There are a lot of other things. I think I feel a sort of natural urge to protect my daughter because I know she is part of me. I'm not sure I would feel that towards any random child.


The agency we used for adoption tries to match a child to the family. They did a very good job in this. Our son looks just like me… same hair color, eye color and skin tone. His intelligence level also matches that of his father and me. I can see both his father (my ex) and me in everything he does. His curiosity, his love for science and math. It’s so clear that nurture is a very strong part of who a child becomes. The influence of the parents who raise a child is so strong that no one has ever guessed that he is adopted. It’s always a shock when people find out.

If you were lucky enough to adopt and raise a child from birth you would know that the love a parent has for a child it not based on blood, it’s based on love… the love that parents have for their child. And the love a child has for their parent is also not based on love.

A child that you adopt and raise is not ‘any random child’. My son is MY son. And this mamma lion will tear apart anyone who tries to harm him… because I love him more than life itself, not because of any genetic tie that really means very little.


----------



## WhoHaveIBecome

DawnD said:


> There were good choices. There was the choice to leave your wife when you discovered you would not have biological children with her. It is obvious from all of your posts, that having children was the main thought of your life, wasn't really who was having them with you that mattered. The right thing to do would have been to let your wife go.


Having children is not the main thought of my life. Its just something I have posted about a lot on this site since it was so heavily tied to my affair and first marriage. Its far from the focus of my life. And the mother of my children does matter. I'm not just sleeping with random people and I wouldn't want to have a child with just anyone. I think the woman that is the mother of my child is a wonderful mother and I lucked out in that respect. I am not just running around and impregnating girls. 



DawnD said:


> I can't ever see someone saying they should have cheated still, but just cheated and left their wife sooner. That is a first. I think this might be where most of those who are seriously slamming you ( browsed some threads of yours, they were pretty interesting). The fact that you don't regret your affair BECAUSE it resulted in the child you wanted so badly is very....telling.


The only reason why I say I should have still continued in the relationship with my now fiancee is saying I shouldn't have would mean I wouldn't have my daughter. I only said I should have left sooner because I think me not making a decision had a significant negative impact on my ex-wife's mental health. I don't know that my actions necessarily caused what happened to her but it certainly contributed. If I handled how the marriage ended better I think it could have been avoided. 

I don't regret the affair also because I love my fiancee. It is not all about our child. If I am being honest I am much happier in my day to day life with my fiancee and daughter than I was with my ex-wife. I think the situation with my ex will always be with me and I can't ever forget it. Its the worst thing I have ever been apart of. 



> Most adopted children never look for their bio-parents. It’s actually a pretty rare thing.


My mistake. For some reason I felt like it was the norm. It might just be media depictions of adoptive children. Again I am not slamming adoption at all. I think its something that can work out great in the right situation.


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## DawnD

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> Having children is not the main thought of my life. Its just something I have posted about a lot on this site since it was so heavily tied to my affair and first marriage. Its far from the focus of my life. And the mother of my children does matter. I'm not just sleeping with random people and I wouldn't want to have a child with just anyone. I think the woman that is the mother of my child is a wonderful mother and I lucked out in that respect. I am not just running around and impregnating girls.
> 
> But you did. You cheated on your wife, and ran around and impregnated another girl. She could give you the ONE thing your wife couldn't, and believe me, she knew that.
> 
> The only reason why I say I should have still continued in the relationship with my now fiancee is saying I shouldn't have would mean I wouldn't have my daughter. I only said I should have left sooner because I think me not making a decision had a significant negative impact on my ex-wife's mental health. I don't know that my actions necessarily caused what happened to her but it certainly contributed. If I handled how the marriage ended better I think it could have been avoided.
> 
> I don't regret the affair also because I love my fiancee. It is not all about our child. If I am being honest I am much happier in my day to day life with my fiancee and daughter than I was with my ex-wife. I think the situation with my ex will always be with me and I can't ever forget it. Its the worst thing I have ever been apart of.
> 
> Because you didn't go through as much with her. Your first wife struggled. How exactly did your fiance get pregnant? Were you guys using birth control? Would your fiance still be happy knowing you slept with your wife those couple of times?
> 
> My mistake. For some reason I felt like it was the norm. It might just be media depictions of adoptive children. Again I am not slamming adoption at all. I think its something that can work out great in the right situation.


 What happens if you fiance can't provide you with more children?


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## Lyris

EleGirl said:


> He came to terms with his adoption before he was 10 years old. I’ve offered to give him the info to contact his birth mother. He says no, he has one set of parents and he already knows them.
> Most adopted children never look for their bio-parents. It’s actually a pretty rare thing.
> 
> If you were lucky enough to adopt and raise a child from birth you would know that the love a parent has for a child it not based on blood, it’s based on love… the love that parents have for their child. And the love a child has for their parent is also not based on love.


I would be interested in some actual research to support your claim that it's rare for adult adoptees not to look for or want to look for their birth parents. I have been doing a lot of reading around adoption and attachment recently and have read over and over about the primal wound, grief and loss surrounding adoption, disrupted adoptions, questions around identity for the adopted child, feelings of not fitting in, erc. It's just not as simple as you are making it sound here and to state that your son had completely come to terms with being adopted by the age of ten is very hard to believe. 

I have read about adult adoptees who don't start looking until they themselves are parents. Or until their adoptive parents die. Just because your son hasn't wanted to find his birth family yet doesn't mean he never will.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhoHaveIBecome

DawnD said:


> What happens if you fiance can't provide you with more children?


My fiancee is 22 years old. There were no issues with our first and as far as we know there is nothing that would prevent us from having future children. We are actually trying for our second right now and if/when she is pregnant I would be content to stop at 2. I think we both want more than two kids but I wouldn't risk my family over that. 

Leaving my marriage now would hurt so many people. I have a little girl that depends on me for so much. I would never do anything that would cause her pain. 



DawnD said:


> But you did. You cheated on your wife, and ran around and impregnated another girl. She could give you the ONE thing your wife couldn't, and believe me, she knew that.


I was taking issue with the fact that you were making it seem like a pattern. It was the one instance. The pregnancy was not planned. I have no reason to think she got pregnant on purpose. When we found out she was pregnant she offered to get an abortion to save me the trouble with my wife. 



DawnD said:


> Because you didn't go through as much with her. Your first wife struggled.


My fiancee and I have gone through a lot together. Some extremely traumatic things. We've raised a child together and I'm sure you know that isn't easy all the time. 



DawnD said:


> How exactly did your fiance get pregnant? Were you guys using birth control? Would your fiance still be happy knowing you slept with your wife those couple of times?


Like I said the pregnancy was an accident. It was not a goal of mine to get her pregnant and it wasn't her plan to get pregnant. It just happened. We never used birth control. Which sounds reckless I know but it wasn't something I was concerned about at the time. You have to realize I had gone years with my wife of having unprotected sex with no pregnancy. I didn't think it could happen and I wasn't worried about it. 

I've adressed the sleeping with my ex-wife a few times and I don't think she would be happy. My fiancee is the jealous type. I think we would get over it though. It happened in such a tremendously difficult point in time in our lives and I have been 100% committed to her since then. But I am not going to rock the boat over something that no one can prove happened. The only two people that know are my ex and I. So its not going to be revealed to my fiancee. It is a secret I am going to take to my grave.


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## DawnD

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> My fiancee is 22 years old. There were no issues with our first and as far as we know there is nothing that would prevent us from having future children. We are actually trying for our second right now and if/when she is pregnant I would be content to stop at 2. I think we both want more than two kids but I wouldn't risk my family over that.
> 
> Leaving my marriage now would hurt so many people. I have a little girl that depends on me for so much. I would never do anything that would cause her pain.
> 
> 
> 
> I was taking issue with the fact that you were making it seem like a pattern. It was the one instance. The pregnancy was not planned. I have no reason to think she got pregnant on purpose. When we found out she was pregnant she offered to get an abortion to save me the trouble with my wife.
> 
> 
> 
> My fiancee and I have gone through a lot together. Some extremely traumatic things. We've raised a child together and I'm sure you know that isn't easy all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said the pregnancy was an accident. It was not a goal of mine to get her pregnant and it wasn't her plan to get pregnant. It just happened. We never used birth control. Which sounds reckless I know but it wasn't something I was concerned about at the time. You have to realize I had gone years with my wife of having unprotected sex with no pregnancy. I didn't think it could happen and I wasn't worried about it.
> 
> I've adressed the sleeping with my ex-wife a few times and I don't think she would be happy. My fiancee is the jealous type. I think we would get over it though. It happened in such a tremendously difficult point in time in our lives and I have been 100% committed to her since then. But I am not going to rock the boat over something that no one can prove happened. The only two people that know are my ex and I. So its not going to be revealed to my fiancee. It is a secret I am going to take to my grave.


Okay, I can buy that you were having unprotected sex for so many years with nothing, but I highly doubt your GF was having years of unprotected sex without a pregnancy resulting. I think you like to think that she was a completely innocent woman, but I doubt it.

She offered to have an abortion to a guy who was longing for a child of his own, huh? Wow. What a gesture. She knew you would never go for that. And she knew if she got pregnant you would leave your wife, because SHE had what you really wanted. The ability to give you children. 

It isn't a secret. Its a LIE. You are lying to your fiancee. A secret is not telling her you used to think Batman was awesome. A lie is not telling her that you cheated on her. Big difference.


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## Lyris

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> I've adressed the sleeping with my ex-wife a few times and I don't think she would be happy. My fiancee is the jealous type. I think we would get over it though. It happened in such a tremendously difficult point in time in our lives and I have been 100% committed to her since then. But I am not going to rock the boat over something that no one can prove happened. The only two people that know are my ex and I. So its not going to be revealed to my fiancee. It is a secret I am going to take to my grave.


I guess you're lucky your ex took it to her grave. I wouldn't have been so generous.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhoHaveIBecome

DawnD said:


> Okay, I can buy that you were having unprotected sex for so many years with nothing, but I highly doubt your GF was having years of unprotected sex without a pregnancy resulting. I think you like to think that she was a completely innocent woman, but I doubt it.
> 
> She offered to have an abortion to a guy who was longing for a child of his own, huh? Wow. What a gesture. She knew you would never go for that. And she knew if she got pregnant you would leave your wife, because SHE had what you really wanted. The ability to give you children.
> 
> It isn't a secret. Its a LIE. You are lying to your fiancee. A secret is not telling her you used to think Batman was awesome. A lie is not telling her that you cheated on her. Big difference.


I've written about this a little but my at the time girlfriend was not the most experienced person in terms of sex. She could have done more to prevent a pregnancy but I feel like its on me to be careful. I was the older person, the more experienced person, and the person with more to lose. I'm not going to slam the woman that is going to be my wife and is the mother of my child. I'm sure she isn't completely innocent. After all she was having an affair with a married man. But she isn't some calculating witch like people seem to think. She is a fun, caring, kind, woman. She has her flaws like we all do. But she isn't evil. If anyone was in the wrong in our saga it was me. 

The abortion may or may not have been an empty gesture. Regardless it wasn't something I wanted at all. After trying for years for a child when I finally have an opportunity to have one I am not going to want to terminate. I don't know what her thought process was at the time. I do not think it was that manipulative though. Its just something that happened and we tried to make the best of it. 

I was legally married to my wife when the sex occurred. It was more pity sex than anything. It wasn't something I enjoyed or even wanted. Its really debatable if that constituted cheating on my girlfriend. I think it was wrong but I never though much of it until some folks on this site mentioned it.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> I think a struggle with infertility can potentially destroy a marriage. Its painful and heartbreaking. People handle trauma in different ways. Some couples come together and thrive under the pressure and others fold and let it destroy them. My marriage was not a happy one by towards the end which complicated things. I think in a happy marriage of course you stay together and fight to overcome. In an unhappy one its a lot tougher of a choice.


I agree with this comment. And I'll say it again , until someone walks in that battlefield, I just feel it is cruel , the harsh judgements... we are all human and make mistakes along the way. Me & my husband never made these type of mistakes ourselves but yet... I can still sympathize with the lonliness & forboding sadness that can come upon people where they might fall into something that they shouldn't have...during this sort of pain and desperation. 



DawnD said:


> And it seems completely rational to me, all the things you had discussed with one another "just in case". The people who are committed to staying together and making a family do just that. But those who are obsessed with only having a biological child and sacrifice their spouse for that I think require therapy.


 They might require therapy, true, but if the depression would continue, I think it would be best for the marraige to be broken. I personally know...for myself... I would never never never be able to stand being married to someone who was depressed all the time, that would drag me down into hell. If we have a goal, go after it, if it is dead, we need to move on. BUt someone lamenting & foreboding 75% of the time, I'd want to scream and run from them. 



> If I were infertile and my H simply left me because I couldn't provide him with heirs, well then I guess that would show me how much I meant to him. That would basically be telling me that I mean nothing to him unless I can reproduce. What an awful way to classify someone you are supposed to love


 Yes it is awful and it takes a LOVE beyond comprehension to deal with this. Not everyone is even capable of such love, that is how I feel. I can not sit here and boast that I am. Hell no. I feel pathetically bad for what happened to his wife. Why does GOD allow these things!! I just don't feel his shoes was any easier, living every day with a woman who likely couldn't even smile, was there any Joy at at in that home, any laughter....I doubt it. 

I can understand the temptation for an escape. 

Personally If I didn't have one child when I was going through that, this could have happened to ME. 

Now everything can judge... the husband is just no good...but I still say, until you walk in those shoes every day and deal with a woman who can not eat sleep or drink cause she wants a baby so bad... how that would affect you, your life and drag you down into .....hell. 



I am very blesssed that my own husband is a very very patient man, he was able to put up with me- well I wasn't all that bad, since we had one kid... I just went on ranting sprees now & then, didn't care about his pleasure -just wanted his deposit of sperm. Sometimes I cried.... but we still had a great life & spoiled that little boy we shared, I felt mightly blessed inbetween my feeling "cheated" somehow. 

The whole thing is just so gruelingly unfair. He is where he is now, he has a right to love his daughter, and he also needs to forgive himself, I wouldn't want to be in his shoes. I also probably would have wanted out of that marriage - to be honest. His mistake was to have unprotected sex with another ...while married. Should we stone him?

How many have done this -and not got the backlash he is recieving here. It is just these horrendous horrifying circumstances that make us want to tear his heart out.


----------



## DawnD

SimplyAmorous said:


> I agree with this comment. And I'll say it again , until someone walks in that battlefield, I just feel it is cruel , the harsh judgements... we are all human and make mistakes along the way. Me & my husband never made these type of mistakes ourselves but yet... I can still sympathize with the lonliness & forboding sadness that can come upon people where they might fall into something that they shouldn't have...during this sort of pain and desperation.
> 
> They might require therapy, true, but if the depression would continue, I think it would be best for the marraige to be broken. I personally know...for myself... I would never never never be able to stand being married to someone who was depressed all the time, that would drag me down into hell. If we have a goal, go after it, if it is dead, we need to move on. BUt someone lamenting & foreboding 75% of the time, I'd want to scream and run from them.
> 
> I have never stated that he shouldn't have left his wife. I stated he should have left her before deciding to cheat. OP has stated in this thread that he still should have cheated, just left her a little earlier after cheating. That I find very selfish and almost cruel.
> 
> Yes it is awful and it takes a LOVE beyond comprehension to deal with this. Not everyone is even capable of such love, that is how I feel. I can not sit here and boast that I am. Hell no. I feel pathetically bad for what happened to his wife. Why does GOD allow these things!! I just don't feel his shoes was any easier, living every day with a woman who likely couldn't even smile, was there any Joy at at in that home, any laughter....I doubt it.
> 
> I can understand the temptation for an escape.
> 
> Personally If I didn't have one child when I was going through that, this could have happened to ME.
> 
> Now everything can judge... the husband is just no good...but I still say, until you walk in those shoes every day and deal with a woman who can not eat sleep or drink cause she wants a baby so bad... how that would affect you, your life and drag you down into .....hell.
> 
> I won't say he is no good, I don't know him. But I will say his actions were no good.
> 
> I am very blesssed that my own husband is a very very patient man, he was able to put up with me- well I wasn't all that bad, since we had one kid... I just went on ranting sprees now & then, didn't care about his pleasure -just wanted his deposit of sperm. Sometimes I cried.... but we still had a great life & spoiled that little boy we shared, I felt mightly blessed inbetween my feeling "cheated" somehow.
> 
> The whole thing is just so gruelingly unfair. He is where he is now, he has a right to love his daughter, and he also needs to forgive himself, I wouldn't want to be in his shoes. I also probably would have wanted out of that marriage - to be honest. His mistake was to have unprotected sex with another ...while married. Should we stone him?
> 
> How many have done this -and not got the backlash he is recieving here. It is just these horrendous horrifying circumstances that make us want to tear his heart out.


Of course he has the right to love his daughter. It is very unfortunate that these circumstances hang over them. I don't want to tear his heart out for cheating and resulting in a pregnancy. I want to understand how a man who has been through this much can honestly sit there and say he doesn't regret his affair at all, he just thinks he should have cheated and left his first wife sooner. I do believe he is being awfully naive about his Fiancee and her intentions when they were cheating, but that apparently has been expressed on his other threads as well.


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## SimplyAmorous

DawnD said:


> Of course he has the right to love his daughter. It is very unfortunate that these circumstances hang over them. I don't want to tear his heart out for cheating and resulting in a pregnancy. I want to understand how a man who has been through this much can honestly sit there and say he doesn't regret his affair at all, he just thinks he should have cheated and left his first wife sooner. I do believe he is being awfully naive about his Fiancee and her intentions when they were cheating, but that apparently has been expressed on his other threads as well.


Because if he regretted his affair, he would have no beautiful daughter beside him right now, she would go "poof". I see his honestly. Sometimes doing bad things leads to a blessing. This is one of those cases. 

Where I see Honesty...even though it is a very DIFFICULT honesty.... all you see is his SIN. But you see, this SIN lead to this beautiful gift...so what is he to do. It is a hell of a question in my opinion, a hard one to answer and most would just lie anyway...and say..."Yeah, if I could do it all over again... I wouldn't have done this" -to appease the listeners and to lower the judgement...but I believe..if you had that child you adored more than life itself (most especially someone who struggled with infertility for years after a river of tears)..... many would be likely lying through your teeth to give that answer. 

He is kinda brave coming here with his story, in my opinion...and I did read this whole thread...his answering this way...makes sense to me. 

He has to live the rest of his life with this on his conscience. I don't envy the man.


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## DawnD

SimplyAmorous said:


> Because if he regretted his affair, he would have no beautiful daughter beside him right now, she would go "poof". I see his honestly. Sometimes doing bad things leads to a blessing. This is one of those cases.
> 
> Where I see Honesty...even though it is a very DIFFICULT honesty.... all you see is his SIN. But you see, this SIN lead to this beautiful gift...so what is he to do. It is a hell of a question in my opinion, a hard one to answer and most would just lie anyway...and say..."Yeah, if I could do it all over again... I wouldn't have done this" -to appease the listeners and to lower the judgement...but I believe..if you had that child you adored more than life itself (most especially someone who struggled with infertility for years after a river of tears)..... many would be likely lying through your teeth to give that answer.
> 
> He is kinda brave coming here with his story, in my opinion...and I did read this whole thread...his answering this way...makes sense to me.
> 
> He has to live the rest of his life with this on his conscience. I don't envy the man.


I can't honestly see why he wouldn't regret not leaving his wife before he started cheating. Was it just that he was lacking the *insert male body part here* to leave her without having a pregnant girlfriend? No, I don't expect him to regret his daughter, but I would expect him to regret sleeping around while married. He very well could have left her way before he ever slept with his GF.


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## WhoHaveIBecome

DawnD said:


> I can't honestly see why he wouldn't regret not leaving his wife before he started cheating. Was it just that he was lacking the *insert male body part here* to leave her without having a pregnant girlfriend? No, I don't expect him to regret his daughter, but I would expect him to regret sleeping around while married. He very well could have left her way before he ever slept with his GF.


I've never said I was brave. I was a coward in how I handled the situation. The pregnant girlfriend made me make a decision when I was too scared or weak to leave my marriage. I still loved my wife during the affair and I was terrified of hurting her. That is why I put off leaving for such a long time. 

The only reason why I refused to say I regret the affair is because the end result of the affair is something I would never regret. SimplyA touched on this in her reply to you but I am thankful for my daughter every single day. I feel like saying I regret having the affair would be in a way disavowing her. 

I should have left before I got her pregnant. It was a horrible horrible thing to do to my wife. She didn't deserve it. I don't know at what point do you say you have to leave your marriage. Is it at the first kiss? Before that? I know the ideal situation is to never ever step out but I was past that point. 

I feel like the situation I was in was a once in a lifetime situation. So many different things happened at the same time. I'm not a person who cheats. I've never cheated on a partner prior to this experience and I haven't since and I can't fathom cheating again. I regret so many things that happened in this. I regret hurting my wife. I just don't know that I regret the affair. 



> Sometimes doing bad things leads to a blessing. This is one of those cases.


I don't think I can put it in better words than that. I know I did some awful things but the end result of those wrong decisions is something pure and perfect. I can't say I would go back in time and not have the affair because I wouldn't have the happiness I have in my life today. I know I could have been more responsible in how I ended my marriage and been more considerate of my ex's mental state.


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## DawnD

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> I've never said I was brave. I was a coward in how I handled the situation. The pregnant girlfriend made me make a decision when I was too scared or weak to leave my marriage. I still loved my wife during the affair and I was terrified of hurting her. That is why I put off leaving for such a long time.
> 
> The only reason why I refused to say I regret the affair is because the end result of the affair is something I would never regret. SimplyA touched on this in her reply to you but I am thankful for my daughter every single day. I feel like saying I regret having the affair would be in a way disavowing her.
> 
> I should have left before I got her pregnant. It was a horrible horrible thing to do to my wife. She didn't deserve it. I don't know at what point do you say you have to leave your marriage. Is it at the first kiss? Before that? I know the ideal situation is to never ever step out but I was past that point.
> 
> I feel like the situation I was in was a once in a lifetime situation. So many different things happened at the same time. I'm not a person who cheats. I've never cheated on a partner prior to this experience and I haven't since and I can't fathom cheating again. I regret so many things that happened in this. I regret hurting my wife. I just don't know that I regret the affair.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think I can put it in better words than that. I know I did some awful things but the end result of those wrong decisions is something pure and perfect. I can't say I would go back in time and not have the affair because I wouldn't have the happiness I have in my life today. I know I could have been more responsible in how I ended my marriage and been more considerate of my ex's mental state.


You leave your marriage when you are building an inappropriate bond with someone else. I am betting you knew way before she got pregnant that it was inappropriate, possibly even before you had sex with her. I don't know your story that intimately, so I don't know if you started as an EA or not. That would have been an ideal situation.

But ideals don't usually happen. My H had his affair. I get good people make mistakes, I really do. We have reconciled even after his affair. People do things that hurt the ones they love. Being able to be man enough to realize that people were hurt and to take away from the situation with new knowledge is preferred. I do not think merely stating " I would never do it again" is enough in that scenario, but I am sure typing out a detailed list of why would take all day 

The things that concern me are all over your other threads, but scattered and in pieces. Do you feel that you are taking more time and effort to make sure this works because you have a child? Or because of the circumstances that led to the relationship??

I do question your naivety towards your fiancee, but again I do not know her in real life, so all I can judge with is what I have read. Scattered still, and almost more difficult to understand since it was touched on by so many different posters.


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## WhoHaveIBecome

DawnD said:


> You leave your marriage when you are building an inappropriate bond with someone else. I am betting you knew way before she got pregnant that it was inappropriate, possibly even before you had sex with her. I don't know your story that intimately, so I don't know if you started as an EA or not. That would have been an ideal situation.
> 
> But ideals don't usually happen. My H had his affair. I get good people make mistakes, I really do. We have reconciled even after his affair. People do things that hurt the ones they love. Being able to be man enough to realize that people were hurt and to take away from the situation with new knowledge is preferred. I do not think merely stating " I would never do it again" is enough in that scenario, but I am sure typing out a detailed list of why would take all day
> 
> The things that concern me are all over your other threads, but scattered and in pieces. Do you feel that you are taking more time and effort to make sure this works because you have a child? Or because of the circumstances that led to the relationship??
> 
> I do question your naivety towards your fiancee, but again I do not know her in real life, so all I can judge with is what I have read. Scattered still, and almost more difficult to understand since it was touched on by so many different posters.


I realize I am putting myself in the line of fire by even posting about my life. I know how this whole situation looks and I don't expect people to be sympathetic. I really don't. I understand why someone wouldn't empathize with me. I never did anything I did with the intent to harm.

My ex-wife didn't make it easy for me to leave. After she knew I was in a sexual relationship with another woman she still tried to get me to stay in the marriage. I could have tried to leave when I felt attraction to another woman but I don't think it would have been that easy. 

My affair started as a friendship that eventually went physical after a few months. I'm not a huge fan of the term emotional affair. I don't think what I was engaged in was an emotional affair. It was just a close friendship. Once we first fooled around it accelerated quickly and went into a full fledged affair. 

I've learned from my experiences. I think maybe you have the impression I haven't learned anything because I said I don't regret the affair. I get that hearing something like that would be infuriating to a person who has been cheated on. Its just the way I feel. It doesn't mean I would go back and do things the same. I know better now. I don't put myself in situations where I am going to develop a bond that is too close with another woman. I try to be transparent with my fiancee. I try to address problems early on rather than letting them fester. 

I have much more to lose with this relationship than my first marriage. I put more time and effort into the relationship because I learned from my first time around. I also know there is more than me and my partner in this relationship. My child is my priority and I would do anything to make sure her childhood is as perfect as can be. So that absolutely motivates me to prevent relationship issues. 

I'm not going to convince anyone here my fiancee is a good person. I know that. I see people throw around derogatory labels like mistress and I get it. Most other women are not kind people. They prey on a person's marriage and try to steal something that isn't theirs. And I understand that people project. Someone's OW might have been a wretched person and they will assume all OW are the same. I just feel like the affair is on me. I wasn't trapped nor was I tempted. It is a cop-out to blame the affair on my fiancee and say I was innocent. I wasn't.


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## DawnD

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> I realize I am putting myself in the line of fire by even posting about my life. I know how this whole situation looks and I don't expect people to be sympathetic. I really don't. I understand why someone wouldn't empathize with me. I never did anything I did with the intent to harm.
> 
> My ex-wife didn't make it easy for me to leave. After she knew I was in a sexual relationship with another woman she still tried to get me to stay in the marriage. I could have tried to leave when I felt attraction to another woman but I don't think it would have been that easy.
> 
> My affair started as a friendship that eventually went physical after a few months. I'm not a huge fan of the term emotional affair. I don't think what I was engaged in was an emotional affair. It was just a close friendship. Once we first fooled around it accelerated quickly and went into a full fledged affair.
> 
> I've learned from my experiences. I think maybe you have the impression I haven't learned anything because I said I don't regret the affair. I get that hearing something like that would be infuriating to a person who has been cheated on. Its just the way I feel. It doesn't mean I would go back and do things the same. I know better now. I don't put myself in situations where I am going to develop a bond that is too close with another woman. I try to be transparent with my fiancee. I try to address problems early on rather than letting them fester.
> 
> I have much more to lose with this relationship than my first marriage. I put more time and effort into the relationship because I learned from my first time around. I also know there is more than me and my partner in this relationship. My child is my priority and I would do anything to make sure her childhood is as perfect as can be. So that absolutely motivates me to prevent relationship issues.
> 
> I'm not going to convince anyone here my fiancee is a good person. I know that. I see people throw around derogatory labels like mistress and I get it. Most other women are not kind people. They prey on a person's marriage and try to steal something that isn't theirs. And I understand that people project. Someone's OW might have been a wretched person and they will assume all OW are the same. I just feel like the affair is on me. I wasn't trapped nor was I tempted. It is a cop-out to blame the affair on my fiancee and say I was innocent. I wasn't.


 It doesn't infuriate me to hear you don't regret it, it does confuse me. But when you clarify with that follow up sentence about meaning you would go back and do it differently at least addresses both parts of it. I get that you wouldn't want to regret your daughter, I think most of the posters here ( including myself) thought you just flat out didn't care who you hurt as long as you got a child in the end. It does come off that way, but when you stay calm and talk it makes more sense and gets clearer. I have more clarity with you in this thread then all of the others. 

Mistress is a term. Your fiancee was in fact your mistress. I think it strikes a special nerve with you since you have had to defend your relationship basically since it began. That can make one easily defensive, and I can understand why. I don't say "mistress" in hate, its just to keep people straight in my mind. But I do think that you allow yourself to be naive about her some. At 22 years old, she was a grown woman and she knew what she was doing. I am pretty sure she knew how babies were made as well LOL. She does hold some accountability in the end of your marriage. She doesn't owe your wife anything, but she did willingly cause emotional pain to a complete stranger. Bad decisions, we all make them.

I think if you were as clear and .....I don't know.....less defensive?? maybe ( not sure if that's the word I am looking for)......people would be more willing to listen. Not all, but some. 

I don't know that this offers you anything, but I will say it anyway. I don't personally hold my H's OW accountable for anything. He was the one who made a vow to me, he is the one who hurt me. Granted, she will face the same scrutiny I mentioned above, as will my H. They were both married. But in the end, the only one who owes me anything, is him. I think most LS get to that point in time. Not all, but a good amount of them. Again, its all about gaining that clarity. Can be really hard to find sometimes.


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## shy_guy

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> This is just a hypothetical question after the fact and I am curious for what the consensus is on this. Lets say it is important for you to have children and a family. A family that preferably involved biological children. Say your spouse/partner cannot have children for whatever reason (infertility, low sperm count, etc). What should the partner that wants and can have children do?
> 
> Should they just accept adoption or pursue unconventional methods (i.e. in vitro/surrogate/etc)? Divorce/Separate? Should they accept not having children?
> 
> This was the issue that plagued my first marriage and I handled it poorly (to say the least). I know what I chose to do in this situation was the wrong decision. I am not advocating it at all. I am curious as to what the "right" decision would have been.


My wife and I have two homemade children, and one adopted child. I think your choice of wording betrays an attitude that I hope I can address a bit.

I will never get tired of making this next statement (just a bit tired that I have to make it  ): There is absolutely NO difference in the way we love our homemade and our adopted children. NONE! The way they came to be part of our family has not affected our attitude. Adoption is not "Settling." It is another way of building a family, but it is not settling. "just accept adoption," it seems to say to me that you think of adoption as settling for a lesser choice. 

Our family was planned to be this way. Many people who adopt have children. Many more, do not have children, and probably have fertility issues of some sort. Some adopt and later have children biologically. Probably most adoptive parents are infertile.

The things you have to do are: Come to grips with your fertility issues. This involves some grieving, that is true. Counselors are available to help with this. I wouldn't advise anyone to turn to adoption until they have found some peace with the issue of their fertility. After this, you can decide on adoption, and move toward that. I can guarantee once you get involved with the process, you will never be the same.

If you choose adoption, you will have to be ready for a lot of frustration, and the level of frustration will change depending on the type of adoption you chose. I can talk to someone specifically about that if they are interested, and I'll be open and honest about it.

So far as the marriage, I knew there were no guarantees when I got married. I didn't know how long either of us would live. I didn't know if we would have health or be sick, and we had no guarantees that we would be able to have children. I pledged my love to my wife regardless, and that's how I view it. I pledged for life regardless of what happened. Being infertile would have been a big hurdle, but it would have to be dealt with the same way. In the adoption process, I've seen other couples who have dealt with it, and I would hope if that was what faced us, I would have been the same.

Back to adoption, I think it gets a bad rap as a "second choice" too often. It's actually a wonderful way to build a family, and when you have a situation where you can have an open adoption, it actually expands your family in a way you may not anticipate. After all, how can you not love someone who has given you such a gift? And again, you love that adopted child the same as you would love biological children ... sometimes you have to work a lot harder and endure a lot more heartache before that child comes into your home ... and that is not forgotten - you really love that child and recognize how precious he/she is. 

I wish we'd talk about adoption a lot more on this forum.


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## SimplyAmorous

shy_guy said:


> The things you have to do are: Come to grips with your fertility issues. This involves some grieving, that is true. Counselors are available to help with this. I wouldn't advise anyone to turn to adoption until they have found some peace with the issue of their fertility. After this, you can decide on adoption, and move toward that. I can guarantee once you get involved with the process, you will never be the same.


I believe this to be true. I can say , for me, I never came to grips with my fertility issues ...there was no peace about it at all ...in that 6 and a half yrs. It was likely a blessing I didn't go on to adopt... cause I was not ready. 

I have an AUNT who did adopt a son, biggest blessing in their life.


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