# Avoiding nonsexual intimacy - because it is too arousing



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Looking back on my marriage, I think I often had a tendency to avoid a great deal of nonsexual intimacy because I knew it would get me aroused at times when my wife was NOT going to be sexually receptive. Much like me getting frustrated from denied sexual intimacy when I needed it, I think I was equally depriving my wife of nonsexual intimacy when she needed it.

The other day I caught myself doing this again but I was open about it. I mentioned to my wife that I had been aroused earlier in the day while we were taking a nap together in bed (one of those weekend, just after lunch naps). So later in the evening after the kids were in bed, I told her I was not aroused at that moment, but mentioned that I would like to try and pick up where we left off earlier in the day (as we were making out and it started to get hot, but we had guests arriving, so there was not time for things to get too hot). She indicated before bedtime that she was really tired, but that she would just want a back rub. I told her that I would likely get too aroused and we agreed that it might be better for her to go to bed while I just watch a movie or something in the living room. Otherwise it seemed like the perfect ingredients were coming together for both of us to get frustrated. 

So I ended up in the living room watching youtube documentaries on the Mars rovers, but then I got to thinking that it would have been nice to go to bed with my wife and give her a back rub, and I imagine she really wanted that after she had a tough day with things in the house. Now we did communicate about this, and we BOTH agreed it was best just to not heat things up again. For the first time, I was frustrated with myself for getting aroused so easily with her. BUT too often I remember feeling and behaving this way in the past WITHOUT communicating about what was going on. Those times my wife would often complain about going to bed many times alone while I would stay up doing other things. I have to imagine that it was taking a toll on her and making her feel unloved. 
*
So just as my wife tells me that I need to be careful and choose a good time to initiate sexual intimacy (for her it is mid-day), I guess the same goes for her trying to initiate nonsexual intimacy from me (I'm easily aroused just before bedtime).*

*Has anyone on TAM tried to address this in their relationships? *My wife says that going out for a nice meal and having great conversation does NOT count as nonsexual intimacy. She only counts it when we hug and she gets a back rub without the pressure of me starting to grab and be sexually playful with her when she is tired. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

badsanta said:


> *Has anyone on TAM tried to address this in their relationships? *My wife says that going out for a nice meal and having great conversation does NOT count as nonsexual intimacy. She only counts it when we hug and she gets a back rub without the pressure of me starting to grab and be sexually playful with her when she is tired.
> 
> Regards,
> Badsanta


Haha! Yep, done this, still do it.

My wife doesn't quite understand it, though, so it really only serves to frustrate her. Kind of proves her point of guys always wanting sex (which is not true, I DO enjoy nonsexual intimacy with her!) But when she's clearly only after that, and I know it will stir other thoughts in my head, I find I weight the pros/cons at that exact moment. If it's been a while since she's came to me for nonsexual intimacy, then I just suck it up. If it's been a while since we've had sex, then I'm blunt about it. Usually she understands, but I know she's not happy about it. Her brain just doesn't function that way. Each need is mutually exclusive of each other for her. Rock and a hard place.

And on the odd occasion, it'll lead to both (though it's more a tit-for-tat thing, for her..) Which is how these things should be, IMO, and probably are for most 'normal' couples! One need being met leads to another need being met, and both people are happy doing both things, because both are needs of each person.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

This isnt something we discuss, but we have sort of an understanding.

if either of the 2 of us is aroused, we drop hints. We're both pretty tuned in on the hints, and very rarely do we turn the other down.

Actually, I dont think this is the ideal at all, but its working for us pretty well so far.

We also have a lot of non-sexual intimacy, so thats not a problem.


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## 247769 (May 18, 2016)

I believe this is the story for most couples who have vastly different sex drives. The fear of getting aroused and rejected and the fear of arousing and having to do it or fight about is seems to be a constant struggle spoken of here. But I agree, we all miss out on so much when we fall into this rut. Thanks for sharing.

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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Sounds so damn complicated.

I sort of view all intimacy in a relationship as part of a sexual connection as it is important (for me) to have that always present, under current of sexuality in the air. Of course it cannot be acted upon all the time and that is the point, that is part of the fun of being in a secret club of two. Personally I need a dividing line between love and sex, hard to explain but I am happy for all touches to be associated with sex but I need times where his love is shown without an association with sex. Eg sometimes he will just come up to me, hold my face, look into my eyes and give me a kiss that speaks pure love, there is nothing sexual about it (as opposed to the lets have sex type of kissing), it is just overwhelming love. 

Honestly BS I think you go above and beyond in your relationship, you squash your desires and who you are in order to keep the peace with your wife. Why can't she give a little and be more open to there being a sense of sex in the air and use that to build up excitement for the time when actual sex is possible.

Far out, it is fun to get all hot and steamy knowing you have visitors arriving soon so will have to pick things back up after they have gone.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

MrsHolland said:


> Honestly BS I think you go above and beyond in your relationship, you squash your desires and who you are in order to keep the peace with your wife. Why can't *she give a little and be more open to there being a sense of sex in the air and use that to build up excitement for the time when actual sex is possible.*


I actually think that we are headed in this direction to be honest. I have started communicating much more about my various levels of desire, particularly if I feel things can easily get revved up too much while I still have myself under control. Sometimes she is OK with that possibility, and other times she is not feeling receptive to that. She also has been communicating to me when she just needs a hug and feels too emotionally exhausted for anything else. Because we have both been working on things she does make it more obvious to me when it is a good time to be more playful. I've also noticed her putting an effort into trying to be more receptive when she knows I have been refraining from pressuring her for at least a day or two. 

We have both been coming to terms that I am very easily aroused, and that I tend to get the most revved up when I am under a great deal of stress or it has been a while. If it is a lazy day in the house, she knows she can enjoy toying with me a little and that I enjoy that regardless of the possibilities. 

We are both working towards trying to make things more natural, but at the same time I think that also means having to avoid certain things when there is too much potential for conflict. This seems to be the first time that we are actively communicating about this in a respectful and fair way. I can now communicate while my desire is still under control and my feelings are going to be OK either way, but I only do this when I sense the potential for conflict. She is also starting to do the same. 

This just happens to help me see for the first time how much nonsexual intimacy she needs/wants and the dynamics of times it has been problematic for me to give that to her. In the past she has also been reluctant to ask for nonsexual intimacy b/c she knew it would likely rev me up and that I would have to have it, which was really frustrating for her.

Badsanta


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Badsanta, you are a very understanding H, you will get there.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

I'm dealing with that as well -- Hubby wants to cuddle and snuggle far more often than he wants sex. I'm so easily aroused that this can be very uncomfortable for me. in the beginning of our relationship I would (subconsciously) guilt and manipulate him into sex. This was not usually a satisfactory solution because I knew he was doing it just to avoid conflict. I realized this just about 2 weeks ago and apologized to him. After being together 5 years and married for 2 years I finally understood that my attitude and behavior was actually responsible for our sex life being infrequent. Self fulfilling prophecy anyone?


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Reading this leaves me scratching my head because it has been so long since we denied each other and ourselves our sexual urges and arousal. But then I remember that we did have this issue in the past and now I given it some thought 'missing' each other sexually is probably what caused our problems at the beginning. 

You may remember that we decided well over a year ago to be intimate with each other whenever one of us asks or initiates. So this may mean I am given orgasms where H has no erection. In the same way I am happy to do things for him when I am tired and not aroused, menstruating etc. Then there are times when we just sync (which is amazing but not the holy grail). 

When we started this change, TAM generally considered it to be dysfunctional way of going about things. Firstly that we were using each other as sex toys and secondly it is just assisted masturbation and not true connection.

Well...I have to say this has been a game changer for us and is such a simplistic thing to do for each other it makes me wonder why we hadn't done it sooner. Why did we think that we both had to be aroused at the same time to have good sex and feel connected? Who wrote that rule? I can do something for my H and I do feel connected and bonded with him for sure. For him - sometimes bringing me manually to orgasm is enough to 'naturally' peak his interest and be aroused - not always but that is OK too. Definitely bonding, passionate, loving either way.

As Holland says - we sometimes make sex too complicated.


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## FiddleMeThis (Nov 3, 2016)

We went through a period like this a couple of years ago. I had to have significant surgery and couldn't have sex for over 6 months. My husband isn't big on oral so that wasn't an adequate replacement for him. However he couldn't control that he was getting aroused when we snuggled/ kissed / spooned together in bed. We pretty much ended up not touching each other at all. We even stopped sharing a bed.

We have since resumed our physical relationship, but I am no longer capable of anal sex which he loves. We used to sleep naked and spoon a lot which often led to me waking up with him already inside me just as often in the back door as the front! We have since started wearing sweats to bed because it's a good deterrent to him just starting without me and maybe accidentally hurting me if he isn't fully awake himself yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

badsanta said:


> My wife says that going out for a nice meal and having great conversation does NOT count as nonsexual intimacy. She only counts it when we hug and she gets a back rub without the pressure of me starting to grab and be sexually playful with her when she is tired.


This is the *exact* stuff I was talking about on another thread when I mentioned that some women have gotten to the point in their marriages where they don't even *want* to be affectionate anymore because their husbands see everything as a sexual gesture when all they wanted was a simple hug or in your case, a back rub. 

I have to say that it's pretty sad that a* grown* man can't even do a NICE thing for his spouse and give her a back-rub after she had a hard day because he can't control his libido. Seriously, that's what this* all *comes down to. So she has to miss out on what would have been a nice few minutes to end her rough day all because GOD FORBID, you become aroused. Call in the National Guard - it's an emergency of epic proportions!!!

Has it ever occurred to you that you can become aroused and with just a little *self control*, you can actually live through it and be able to tell the tale to your grand kids? It's true. The world really won't come to an end and you really won't die if you become aroused and actually choose to ignore it.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

To be fair to BS, as he seems to be clued up on tease and DENIAL I think he knows he will quite happily live through moments of arousal. I think what he is saying is that there are times when his wife also becomes aroused and he is unable to satisfy her - they never seem to be in sync? If I have got this right he is concerned that he is missing opportunities to be intimate with his wife which may be leaving her feeling unloved.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> This is the *exact* stuff I was talking about on another thread when I mentioned that some women have gotten to the point in their marriages where they don't even *want* to be affectionate anymore because their husbands see everything as a sexual gesture when all they wanted was a simple hug or in your case, a back rub.
> 
> I have to say that it's pretty sad that a* grown* man can't even do a NICE thing for his spouse and give her a back-rub after she had a hard day because he can't control his libido. Seriously, that's what this* all *comes down to. So she has to miss out on what would have been a nice few minutes to end her rough day all because GOD FORBID, you become aroused. Call in the National Guard - it's an emergency of epic proportions!!!
> 
> Has it ever occurred to you that you can become aroused and with just a little *self control*, you can actually live through it and be able to tell the tale to your grand kids? It's true. The world really won't come to an end and you really won't die if you become aroused and actually choose to ignore it.




This, I 'become aroused' a few to many times a day, wait 5 minutes and it goes away. Just make it clear to her that she is free to ignore it if she doesn't want it but expecting it not to happen is pure BS.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I have to say that it's pretty sad that a* grown* man can't even do a NICE thing for his spouse and give her a back-rub after she had a hard day because he can't control his libido. Seriously, that's what this* all *comes down to. So she has to miss out on what would have been a nice few minutes to end her rough day all because GOD FORBID, you become aroused. Call in the National Guard - it's an emergency of epic proportions!!!
> 
> Has it ever occurred to you that you can become aroused and with just a little *self control*, you can actually live through it and be able to tell the tale to your grand kids? It's true. The world really won't come to an end and you really won't die if you become aroused and actually choose to ignore it.


Well this is where the dynamics get much more complicated. YES, I would have in the past enjoyed this, and in the past year or two I am just starting to get to enjoy this. What used to happen* in the past was that if I would get mildly aroused, my wife would reject that!* To her that was NOT OK, and she would begin aggressively withdrawing from all forms of nonsexual and sexual intimacy. I guess this would be her self defense tactic. In the meantime that would be extremely hurtful to me just because I happened to get aroused because I enjoy holding my wife. She would just preemptively reject me before I got too aroused, and that HURT. 

Now I communicate when I can get aroused and be OK without sex, and she also communicates when she is able to try for us to be sexually intimate. So what you described above is now starting to happen. BUT I am noticing that there are still times I have to step back because I know my libido is overly anxious to respond. As a guy I am noticing this, because everything starts to become much more sexual in context: I can'y help but to notice my wife's curves, I start actively thinking about the next opportunity, insignificant details about her become arousing. This does not always happen, so I am aware and communicate to her so she knows, "I'm not just playing around right now anymore!" 

In the past I did not know how to communicate this, and she rejected me very often and preemptively so all the time. We argued about sex in the past, and she really struggled with feeling of inadequacy that she would never be able to please me. Our arguments were taking a toll. We don't argue about sex hardly any these days, as I use my libido as a way to tell her that she is uncontrollably attractive sometimes, and that I would not change that for anything in the world. She has become more accepting of my libido and she has slowly learned how and when to be a little more playful with me in ways that no one gets our feelings hurt in the event she can't get herself in the mood to enjoy sex with me. I now clearly appreciate her attempts to get better at this as something that means a lot to me. If I am getting too aroused, she might give me just the beginning of a HJ and tell me to just _really enjoy myself_ thinking about her and how much I want her just afterwards. THAT I really do enjoy here and there nowadays instead of being frustrated or angry with her! 

Badsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

peacem said:


> To be fair to BS, as he seems to be clued up on tease and DENIAL I think he knows he will quite happily live through moments of arousal. I think what he is saying is that there are times when his wife also becomes aroused and he is unable to satisfy her - they never seem to be in sync? If I have got this right he is concerned that he is missing opportunities to be intimate with his wife which may be leaving her feeling unloved.


We do enjoy trying to be "in sync" more often, and that is happening more often these days. Managing and cultivating sexual energy while not knowing when that moment will happen is still a source of frustration more often that not. I sometimes enjoy thinking about my wife a little _too much on my own_ and then my libido calms down. Just afterwards I somehow always find myself in a moment where SHE is dragging me to the bedroom and I am like "oh shît!"


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

badsanta said:


> We do enjoy trying to be "in sync" more often, and that is happening more often these days. Managing and cultivating sexual energy while not knowing when that moment will happen is still a source of frustration more often that not. I sometimes enjoy thinking about my wife a little _too much on my own_ and then my libido calms down. Just afterwards I somehow always find myself in a moment where SHE is dragging me to the bedroom and I am like "oh shît!"


When you were having a good time on the bed (during the day when you were not aroused) why didn't you bring her to orgasm manually? Is there is reason for you to stop? In the same way is your wife completely against the idea of being briefly intimate with you even when she is tired? (i.e HJ, BJ). I can be completely exhausted and stressed but will still get a thrill from H using my body to 'M' (all I have to do is lie there and go with the flow as it were). 

I get a similar rush of 'love' from doing that.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> This is the *exact* stuff I was talking about on another thread when I mentioned that some women have gotten to the point in their marriages where they don't even *want* to be affectionate anymore because their husbands see everything as a sexual gesture when all they wanted was a simple hug or in your case, a back rub.
> 
> I have to say that it's pretty sad that a* grown* man can't even do a NICE thing for his spouse and give her a back-rub after she had a hard day because he can't control his libido. Seriously, that's what this* all *comes down to. So she has to miss out on what would have been a nice few minutes to end her rough day all because GOD FORBID, you become aroused. Call in the National Guard - it's an emergency of epic proportions!!!
> 
> Has it ever occurred to you that you can become aroused and with just a little *self control*, you can actually live through it and be able to tell the tale to your grand kids? It's true. The world really won't come to an end and you really won't die if you become aroused and actually choose to ignore it.


I'll agree that barely being able to touch your wife without becoming aroused is a little much, but it doesn't take much if a husband is starving. I also think there are different kinds of touching. Sure, a shoulder rub after work or cuddling on the couch during a movie could be just that, but my x wife's sex drive was so unusual, she could be in her underwear and take a full body massage with lotion that lasted 30 minutes(at her request), and if the planets weren't perfectly lined, she still wouldn't be in the mood for sex even though she thoroughly enjoyed the massage. 

My x liked attention to her feet. I can't count the times that I painted her toenails or massaged her feet(at her request) while we watched a movie. She would even do little moans at times. Come on!

She seemed to not see any connection to any of this and sexual arousal. I guess I was supposed to be thinking about an episode of Mr. Ed while I was massaging her nearly naked, tan body. 

My marriage wasn't totally sexless, but it certainly wasn't frequent.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

badsanta said:


> So I ended up in the living room* watching youtube documentaries on the Mars rovers,*




It's all good.:nerd:


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

notmyrealname4 said:


> It's all good.:nerd:


Haha...I was thinking the same and even looked them up. They were very good :grin2:.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

peacem said:


> Haha...I was thinking the same and even looked them up. They were very good :grin2:.




Yes, indeed.


Now, if there is a way to *combine* Mars rovers and sex .. . :circle::bounce::awink:


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

THIS Is precisely why I will never have another romantic relationship. You can't win, and you end up feeling good because you slept on the couch.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Now, if there is a way to *combine* Mars rovers and sex .. . :circle::bounce::awink:


OMG, some of the best sex my wife and I would have back in our college days was THIS!!! We would go at it, order a pizza with sodas, watch awesome documentaries on the Discovery Channel (before it turned into a stupid guns and cars channel), have sex again, and then pass out. 

The best were watching documentaries in the winter about Arctic expeditions. We would cuddle up to stay warm. Outside the window was snow, freezing temperatures, and trains barreling through the snow.




























What I would not give to relive those days a few more times!

Badsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

So this morning, my wife and I were being playful, but I think knowing that we had guests arriving again today in a few moments gives her some kind of superpowers of confidence to mess with me. She starts giving me a HJ knowing that I am really enjoying it, and I ask her to stop because I am enjoying it too much. It was as if I challenged her to tease me or something. OMG I think I am creating a monster! A few minutes later, she smiles and gets up as or doorbell was ringing, leaving me in a rather awkward situation to cool myself down. 

*I guess this is BETTER than the fights we used to have!*


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

badsanta said:


> She starts giving me a HJ knowing that I am really enjoying it, and I ask her to stop because I am enjoying it too much. It was as if I challenged her to tease me or something.
> OMG I think I am creating a monster!


LOL! Maybe she wanted a quickie! 
My new book arrived from Amazon, it has tricks and tips on how to have quickie everywhere! 



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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

badsanta said:


> OMG, some of the best sex my wife and I would have back in our college days was THIS!!! We would go at it, order a pizza with sodas, watch awesome documentaries on the Discovery Channel (before it turned into a stupid guns and cars channel), have sex again, and then pass out.


Why do you think that changed? Not watching the documentaries lol but seems like you both require a lot of planning and your sex life lacks spontaneity?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

*Deidre* said:


> Why do you think that changed? Not watching the documentaries lol but seems like you both require a lot of planning and your sex life lacks spontaneity?


Back then we were in college, and our schedules might have a day or two of nothingness. Now we both have full time jobs, teenage kids in the house, laundry piling up, cats to feed, meals to plan, and our bodies do not have the energy we had when we were younger. 

When I was in college I would do my laundry once a month at about 2am on a Saturday. I could load about six machines all up at once in the dorm basement and be done by 4am. For some reason when I go to do laundry now, when I go to put my first load in the dryer with my desperately needed just-washed underwear, I find a damp load of the kids cloths that did not dry all the way, has been sitting for days, and smells like sour shît that my MIL left for me who knows when (you know, her trying to be helpful!). So our laundry needs have quadrupled, our capacity to do laundry is exponentially smaller and always starts out with one of us yelling, "fück me!" And that is NOT meant in a sexual way! 

Don't let this scare you @*Deidre* as it is worth it! You'll wake up late one Saturday morning and discover all kinds of fun stuff the kids made in the snow!


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

peacem said:


> When you were having a good time on the bed (during the day when you were not aroused) why didn't you bring her to orgasm manually? Is there is reason for you to stop? In the same way is your wife completely against the idea of being briefly intimate with you even when she is tired? (i.e HJ, BJ). I can be completely exhausted and stressed but will still get a thrill from H using my body to 'M' (all I have to do is lie there and go with the flow as it were).
> 
> 
> 
> I get a similar rush of 'love' from doing that.






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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

This is what I want in my marriage. instead I try to balance my (lately, as in the last 6 months) perpetual arousal without shying away from nonsexual intimacy. I just wish we could set blatant signals so H would know that without orgasm in the near future I would start getting grumpy. when we we've tried that in the past, I felt like I was guilting or manipulating him -- I struggle with satiety when I feel sexual intimacy is done as a duty and not because he wants to. I could really use some advice on this!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

KaraBoo0723 said:


> This is what I want in my marriage. instead I try to balance my (lately, as in the last 6 months) perpetual arousal without shying away from nonsexual intimacy. I just wish we could set blatant signals so H would know that without orgasm in the near future I would start getting grumpy. when we we've tried that in the past, I felt like I was guilting or manipulating him -- I struggle with satiety when I feel sexual intimacy is done as a duty and not because he wants to. I could really use some advice on this!


I am not sure if this is the advice you want to hear, but when faced with this exact same scenario I would often turn down opportunities for sex when my wife was not really into it. It was not only until that we really began communicating that I discovered that doing this AND feeling that way made HER feel rejected sexually. This in turn made sexuality in our relationship even more stressful for both of us.

While easier said than done, if your spouse wants to or is willing to please you when they themselves are not really in the mood, simply enjoy it, be very easy to please, and compliment your partner in the process. This in turn builds confidence and playfulness in the relationship as opposed to stress and anxiety. 

The worst thing you can do is to want your partner to want you sexually, and then preemptively try to get them into the mood just because you are aroused and are wanting to feel the connection of being in sync with your spouse. Awkwardly it works way better just to show a spouse how aroused you are and then tell them they can't have that! THEN be playful and confident until your partner remembers the thrill of the chase! 










I struggle with myself when I start getting too needy, and our schedules are too overloaded for intimacy. Then I get pushy and she gets frustrated with me. To some extent I think moments like that are just unavoidable but do seem to get a little better with communication so that your partner knows what to expect. Sometimes this will involve avoiding nonsexual intimacy in the event your partner is not in the mood for you to get pushy, AND you have to communicate that BEFORE things get to heated up so that it is easier to avoid your feeling getting hurt. 

I'm just learning this...

Badsanta


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

KaraBoo0723 said:


> I* felt* like I was guilting or manipulating him -- I struggle with satiety when I feel sexual intimacy is done as a duty and not because he wants to. I could really use some advice on this!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No-one has a full satisfaction of duty sex but I wonder if feelings are facts here. Is there any rock solid evidence that you _are _guilting or manipulating him or is it that one sided intimacy makes you feel that way. I imagine these thoughts a very common among women who are very sexual and they are usually self imposed. Has your H actually suggested that he feels put upon or frustrated by your sex drive?

How does it make you feel if you do a one-way act with him? HD women usually get a little buzz from this. Making someone orgasm is a huge thrill for most people don't you think?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

peacem said:


> How does it make you feel if you do a one-way act with him? HD women usually get a little buzz from this. Making someone orgasm is a huge thrill for most people don't you think?


I agree with this! In my marriage (even though the genders are reversed compared to @KaraBoo0723 with her husband) it is the same for an HD male to get his wife excited. However when it is just you getting excited and you are not getting much of a response from your partner for more than a few weeks, it can become rather frustrating and eat away at you. 

It is like you are ready to take off, things get off the ground, and you look out and one of the engines on your aircraft shuts down as you are still gaining altitude:










Sure you can still fly and glide around this way, but you are going to have to cut your trip short and land ASAP if you have the skills. Most end up shutting down both engines, nose dive, and eject themselves into self misery. Occasionally this even happens with experienced couples that enjoy a one-sided experience and can leave the pilot and co-pilot in fear of flying again. So the next time a pilot may end up just doing this:










While the co-pilot is doing this:


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I guess I don't understand why being aroused and not acted upon has to be a bad thing. DH and I both do it all the time. No blood, no foul.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> I guess I don't understand why being aroused and not acted upon has to be a bad thing. DH and I both do it all the time. No blood, no foul.


I think the issue is that the "not acted upon" part is the norm.


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## bkyln309 (Feb 1, 2015)

Honestly, if my partner is aroused, I just go with it even if I am not in the mood. Its like some tasks at work. Whether you feel like it or not, you have to do it. Most times if you surrender to your partner's desire, it ends up very enjoyable anyway so its a win. 

Most times those non-intimate deeds like the back rub end up turning into intimate deeds.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> I guess I don't understand why being aroused and not acted upon has to be a bad thing. DH and I both do it all the time. No blood, no foul.


Being aroused and not acting on that is basically a standard way of life for me, but eventually that arousal builds to a point where it becomes difficult to ignore. At this point if my wife is still unwilling to try for us to be sexually intimate OR at least be a little playful by giving me a HJ or something, it is best to avoid being close.

If I may ask @NobodySpecial have you ever rejected sexual intimacy or have been rejected for over a week once it was made obvious that one person was becoming continuously aroused? That is NOT a spiteful/sarcastic question as I am sincerely curious about how this works in other marriages since this is not an issue for you. I ask that question respectfully as it helps give myself a reality check.

Thanks, 
Badsanta


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

badsanta said:


> Being aroused and not acting on that is basically a standard way of life for me, but eventually that arousal builds to a point where it becomes difficult to ignore. At this point if my wife is still unwilling to try for us to be sexually intimate OR at least be a little playful by giving me a HJ or something, it is best to avoid being close.
> 
> If I may ask @NobodySpecial have you ever *rejected *sexual intimacy or have been rejected for over a week once it was made obvious that one person was becoming continuously aroused? That is NOT a spiteful/sarcastic question as I am sincerely curious about how this works in other marriages since this is not an issue for you. I ask that question respectfully as it helps give myself a reality check.
> 
> ...


I have said no any number of times as had he. The difference is one of attitude. Neither of us see it as a REJECTION. And really? Over a WEEK? We often go longer than a week.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

What comes off time after time after time is how passive yet demanding you are. You "make it known"? And then after a week you are whining. How many posts have you made on this board? If I were your wife, I would avoid you like the plague. And there is nothing LD about me. Is EVERYTHING some kind of sex contract with you?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

In retrospect, for me the solution was simple. After spending too many years avoiding nonsexual intimacy because my wife rejected sexual intimacy, I left. No more avoidance OR rejection! No more issues with intimacy, or different drives. I looked for and found someone compatible, and never looked back. When you are IN the problem - and perhaps part of the problem - solutions are extraordinarily difficult.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> In retrospect, for me the solution was simple. After spending too many years avoiding nonsexual intimacy because my wife rejected sexual intimacy, I left. No more avoidance OR rejection! No more issues with intimacy, or different drives. I looked for and found someone compatible, and never looked back. When you are IN the problem - and perhaps part of the problem - solutions are extraordinarily difficult.


OR understand this reality and stop beating your head on the wall.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> I have said no any number of times as had he. The difference is one of attitude. Neither of us see it as a REJECTION. And really? Over a WEEK? We often go longer than a week.


Gah...my wife would claw my eyeballs out if she had to wait a week...


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> I have said no any number of times as had he. The difference is one of attitude. Neither of us see it as a REJECTION. And really? Over a WEEK? We often go longer than a week.


My wife and I often go longer than a week as well. At some point my libido starts really building up and I let her know.



NobodySpecial said:


> What comes off time after time after time is how passive yet demanding you are. *You "make it known"?* And then after a week you are whining. How many posts have you made on this board? If I were your wife, *I would avoid you* like *the plague*. And there is nothing LD about me. Is EVERYTHING some kind of sex contract with you?


My wife actually finds the communication to be very helpful. She does NOT like it when we get into situations when I am going to begin putting too much pressure on her. So the PURPOSE of communicating my arousal is to help her know when to avoid me. I'm OK with that because I know it helps us avoid arguments, but nonsexual intimacy gets sacrificed at these times. 

While you may think many things in my marital life seem like a contract, these are things that my wife has requested of me and needs me to demonstrate in order for things to improve. So the things that seem contractual in nature (e.g. me giving her a break from sexual intimacy so many days after sex, me not getting upset when we do not have sex, me not insisting she has to be aroused when I am) are things that SHE has stipulated through communication. 

With respect to me being like the plague, I'll take that as a HUGE compliment!!!!! If my ability to get my wife to continually fall in love with me has the same success rate as the infection rate of the Bubonic plague in European history, I guess I should smile confidently and come home at the end of each day yelling to my wife, "Bring out your bed! Bring out your bed!" 

Badsanta


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

@badsanta - funnily enough I watched a documentary on the Black Death last night which was a rather a refreshing upbeat account of its legacy. Mainly an end to feudalism, peasants became land gentry in just 2 generations, the village pub became a must for all those people traveling around for work, those who survived seemed to have developed a strong immune system, women were given roles that were traditionally forbidden. The plague gets a bad press sometimes.....


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

badsanta said:


> Being aroused and not acting on that is basically a standard way of life for me, but eventually that arousal builds to a point where it becomes difficult to ignore. At this point if my wife is still unwilling to try for us to be sexually intimate OR at least be a little playful by giving me a HJ or something, it is best to avoid being close.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yep, continued arousal along with continued rejection gets difficult to handle very quickly for me. H and I went 13 months with no sexual intimacy. I personally become frustrated and irritated after 48-72 hours without some type of sexual activity. After 4 or 5 days, just cuddling up next to my H at bedtime can cause actual physical pain for me, a rough road while driving can put me in tears. My H doesn't understand this, he even asked his coworkers if they had heard of experiencing pain with prolonged celibacy and asked what I did when I was single. I've tried to explain that when single it isn't as difficult but that when I am that aroused lying next to my H, or even just casual touches, can be excruciating. Wanting (or needing) intimate contact, being so physically close to him but unable to act on my arousal DOES in fact cause me pain. 

I told H just night before last that if there were a way to remove arousal completely or even just to mute it for a short time I would be first in line. I hate feeling this way and, even worse, I hate that me feeling this way hurts my husband -- he feels inadequate and/or broken. I try so hard NOT to show desire or sexual frustration to him -- he was a pedestrian hit by a semi while crossing the street when he was 20 and has decreased sensation to his right groin and leg -- he took Levitra before we met but said that after a month or so into our relationship that he no longer needed it. My high sex drive has been the largest ongoing issue in our relationship. People who have never experienced this have no idea of the emotional pain HD partners like myself feel -- I can't stop my nearly constant arousal even though it's causing my wonderful husband to feel like he doesn't satisfy me. 


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

peacem said:


> The plague gets a bad press sometimes.....


Same goes for skunks!










But hey, me and Pepé le Pew have a lot in common! We both know what we want and know how to be persistent!

Badsanta


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Gah...my wife would claw my eyeballs out if she had to wait a week...


Ugh I would go nuts if the "times per week" discussion was part of my marriage. Sometimes life happens. And oooooo laaaa laaa sometimes life happens.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

KaraBoo0723 said:


> People who have never experienced this have no idea of the emotional pain HD partners like myself feel


At moments like that I would often feel a passive aggressive tantrum coming on and want to make my wife know how I was feeling. Because I realized that passive aggressive tantrums made things even worse, I made it a point to try and be creative with my tantrums so that they at least stood a chance to have a positive effect. An example of a creative tantrum might be to buy a nice bouquet of flowers, bring them home, let my wife think they are for her, and then ask her help delivering them to my grandma or something thanking them for being such a wonderful person!


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

badsanta said:


> Same goes for skunks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL! I find it funny that you choose a cartoon that is an exercise in futility. Your humorous gene is on fire.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> LOL! I find it funny that you choose a cartoon that is an exercise in futility. Your humorous gene is on fire.


I'm sure someone once sent you a Pepe valentine card too!


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

badsanta said:


> I'm sure someone once sent you a Pepe valentine card too!


I tend to punch out people whose advances are unwelcome.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

KaraBoo0723 said:


> I've tried to explain that when single it isn't as difficult but that when I am that aroused lying next to my H, or even just casual touches, can be excruciating. Wanting (or needing) intimate contact, being so physically close to him but unable to act on my arousal DOES in fact cause me pain.


Same here.



KaraBoo0723 said:


> I told H just night before last that if there were a way to remove arousal completely or even just to mute it for a short time I would be first in line. I hate feeling this way and, even worse, I hate that me feeling this way hurts my husband -- he feels inadequate and/or broken.


Again, same here for me and my wife. I wish I had no drive at all. Working on it.



KaraBoo0723 said:


> People who have never experienced this have no idea of the emotional pain HD partners like myself feel -- I can't stop my nearly constant arousal even though it's causing my wonderful husband to feel like he doesn't satisfy me.


You may not enjoy reading this, but please hear me out as I think you might find a different perspective helpful to both of you.

Your husband is correct. He does not satisfy you. Which is why you are so horny so much of the time. Stop arguing with him and embrace your differences. Agree that he does not satisfy you sexually as often as you wish. But reassure him that he has many great qualities, you love him, and you are not trading him for any other man. After all, some other woman would have bigger or perkier boobs or more money or whatever, and he isn't leaving you over those things, is he? No one is perfect and no couple is perfectly aligned in every aspect of their relationship. In fact, PRETENDING that your spouse is a perfect match is more likely to cause problems than accepting the reality that they aren't.

Marriage is not about finding the perfect match and then demanding that they never change and tying them to the wall so they can't escape. Marriage is about making a commitment to stay with a person despite their flaws and despite the ways in which they are not a perfect match for you. it is about doing the work to iron out or accept your differences. It is about constantly working to become more compatible, not about achieving a state of perfect and petrified compatibility.

When you tell your husband that he fully satisfies you, you are lying to him. And he knows you are lying. And he may appreciate the sentiment behind the lie. But he would probably appreciate the truth more.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

So here is a speculation. And I hope it is not mean or in any way missing the point in a hurtful way. The overarching message I get from these posts is the DRIVE. And the wife is a vessel for the drive. Arousal that is disconnected from the person that is your wife. I mean, I was goofing when I made the joke about the pepe cartoon. But it is kind of on point. I would feel like a husk of a body of THAT is what my husband wanted from me. Just a vessel for his drive.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> So here is a speculation. And I hope it is not mean or in any way missing the point in a hurtful way. The overarching message I get from these posts is the DRIVE. And the wife is a vessel for the drive. Arousal that is disconnected from the person that is your wife. I mean, I was goofing when I made the joke about the pepe cartoon. But it is kind of on point. I would feel like a husk of a body of THAT is what my husband wanted from me. Just a vessel for his drive.




What you may fail to realize is that many / most men would love to be a vessel for their spouse's drive. In fact, that is the pinnacle of desire - to abandon all sense of self and other and pursue pleasure.

Why wouldn't a man want for his spouse that which he desires for himself?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> What you may fail to realize is that many / most men would love to be a vessel for their spouse's drive. In fact, that is the pinnacle of desire - to abandon all sense of self and other and pursue pleasure.
> 
> Why wouldn't a man want for his spouse that which he desires for himself?
> 
> ...




In fact there is a very, very small but quite vocal subculture / fetish of cuckolds and their "hot wives" who pursue this fantasy of watching their spouse unleash their desires with others who appear to possess this mystical power of passion.

Not my thing but I recognize the underlying mechanisms that are amplified in this fetish.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> So here is a speculation. And I hope it is not mean or in any way missing the point in a hurtful way. The overarching message I get from these posts is the DRIVE. And the wife is a vessel for the drive. Arousal that is disconnected from the person that is your wife. I mean, I was goofing when I made the joke about the pepe cartoon. But it is kind of on point. I would feel like a husk of a body of THAT is what my husband wanted from me. Just a vessel for his drive.




My husband is everything to me and says I've never made him feel like "just a vessel" for my drive. I am incredibly touch oriented, sexually and nonsexually. We've discussed at length ways to minimize my sexual frustration but "taking care of it" myself will only increase my frustration more often than not. It's not only the physical aspect of making love for me -- it's the closeness, the intimate connection that powers my drive. This actually helps my H to initiate as it is not the orgasm that I'm after but instead the orgasm from HIM that I crave. For most of our relationship he has been willing to pleasure just me when he feels unable to maintain an erection when I initiate -- and when that happens I make sure to give him a BJ ( I love giving him BJs). He tells me that he is horny a lot but often feels PIV is out of reach and does not initiate or accept my attempts to initiate as he feels that I would be disappointed -- I am never disappointed about that but he hasn't been able to fully believe that. When I'm on my period I make it a point to offer BJs at least every other day (he has an aversion to PIV during that time) without expectation of orgasm for myself. Because of the ED he has trained himself to not think about sex very often and so far I haven't been able to break through those barriers. 

As far as one-way pleasure offered by him I know when he is doing it out of desire to please me -- as well as when he does it out of guilt/obligation/just to avoid a fight and/or to "shut me up" (rolling eyes when I'm being seductive, huge sigh right before rolling over towards me, manuel stimulation rougher and constant without pause between climaxes). I usually accept the one-sided episodes but if I can tell he's really not into it then I'm left with minimal emotional and physical satisfaction. 


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

KaraBoo0723 said:


> When I'm on my period I make it a point to offer BJs at least every other day (he has an aversion to PIV during that time) without expectation of orgasm for myself. Because of the ED he has trained himself to not think about sex very often and so far I haven't been able to break through those barriers.


When you are on your period, why do you avoid orgasms? Have you thought about using a mooncup? Orgasms during menstruation help cramps and PMS. 




> As far as one-way pleasure offered by him I know when he is doing it out of desire to please me -- as well as when he does it out of guilt/obligation/just to avoid a fight and/or to "shut me up" (his words). I usually accept the one-sided episodes but if I can tell he's really not into it then I'm left with minimal emotional and physical satisfaction.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hmmm...although your H's response to one way sounds somewhat selfish when you are prepared to do the same, ED can be a really distressing thing for men and it may give him a feeling of inadequacy which makes him tetchy. It takes a lot of reassurance and playful interaction to get through to some men that it really, really doesn't matter and there is lots of fun to be had without an erection. It just takes time and persistence, but not like Pepe Le Pew.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

peacem said:


> When you are on your period, why do you avoid orgasms? Have you thought about using a mooncup? Orgasms during menstruation help cramps and PMS.


When on my period I am even more horny and yes, orgasm does relieve a lot of my symptoms but because of the heightened sensitivity I prefer to handle it myself -- H gets a little carried away and doesn't realize how vigorous he's being. If he offers, I'll ask him to play with my hair, neck, ears, breasts to increase the power of my orgasm. 





peacem said:


> Hmmm...although your H's response to one way sounds somewhat selfish when you are prepared to do the same, ED can be a really distressing thing for men and it may give him a feeling of inadequacy which makes him tetchy. It takes a lot of reassurance and playful interaction to get through to some men that it really, really doesn't matter and there is lots of fun to be had without an erection. It just takes time and persistence, but not like Pepe Le Pew.



I think it's more that giving me an orgasm can sometimes bring his perceived failings front and center. I'm an RN and have been reassuring him that making love doesn't require PIV and telling him how incredible his touch makes me feel even without PIV but he's battling 22 years of ingrained doubts and insecurities. 


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Holdingontoit said:


> Marriage is not about finding the perfect match and then demanding that they never change and tying them to the wall so they can't escape. Marriage is about making a commitment to stay with a person despite their flaws and despite the ways in which they are not a perfect match for you. it is about doing the work to iron out or accept your differences. It is about constantly working to become more compatible, not about achieving a state of perfect and petrified compatibility.
> 
> When you tell your husband that he fully satisfies you, you are lying to him. And he knows you are lying. And he may appreciate the sentiment behind the lie. But he would probably appreciate the truth more.


 @Holdingontoit I usually refrain from agreeing with you as your approach to solving problems in your marriage is a very different approach than that of my own. But reading this it becomes all to important that we must all understand that it is not really important how we go about solving our problems, but more so about our intent and to remain genuine about that.

There are many things in my marriage that are not compatible, but I do not see that as a problem. I see those things as lending to more diversity in our relationship. While diversity is not always easy when it comes to appreciating it in a relationship, if the intent is to love and accept your partner for who they are and to help them do the same for you, that is what a marriage should be all about!

So this one comment of yours really sticks out from what I have read in the past. I wholeheartedly agree with it. Thanks for the post!

...and with keeping the peace in my own thread, I am finding that in order to help someone love you, avoiding nonsexual intimacy can at times be useful for both partners. This is equally as useful as when couples sometimes need to avoid sexual intimacy from time to time. Along with diversity in a marriage of personalities comes weakness if both insist on being close all the time. Sometimes it is the respected distance that pushes two people together in a way that will create such a strong bond that few understand.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

TheTruthHurts said:


> What you may fail to realize is that many / most men would love to be a vessel for their spouse's drive. In fact, that is the pinnacle of desire - to abandon all sense of self and other and pursue pleasure.
> 
> Why wouldn't a man want for his spouse that which he desires for himself?
> 
> ...


If the spouse does not also want that, it is nothing but use.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> If the spouse does not also want that, it is nothing but use.


Awkwardly enough I agree with you and also insist the same is true for a woman (or LD partner) that only wants nonsexual intimacy that is unwanted by the HD partner. That is also a form of just using your partner when the other person does not want that. 

For the HD partner it can be difficult to understand why your spouse would want you emotionally close while at the same time reject or push you away physically. So when my wife gets her back rub and I listen to all the stress from her day while she winds down and dozes off to sleep, meanwhile I am aroused and she rejects that possibility of intimacy in favor of only what she wants... it can also leave me feeling used at times. 

Now I do not mind being used as a vessel of my wife's emotional and nonsexual intimate desires, because that it what she needs to help sooth herself after a stressful day. Sometimes I do wish she could be a little more emotionally independent so that at the end of the day we could share positive energy with one another as opposed to her just unloading all of her stress onto me and just using one another. It would be nice to share things more often!
@NobodySpecial if you read this reply and feel a bit like you are investing your time and energy without getting or hearing what you desire in return, "hey thanks for sharing some nonsexual intimacy with me here in my thread!" Now that I got what I needed, I do not care about your replies anymore. Would you mind taking any additional comments elsewhere, because I am really not in the mood for anything else from you right now.

The paragraph above is just me being rather sarcastic to try and demonstrate how some forms of nonsexual intimacy can leave one feeling used and rejected!

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

@badsanta
Do you get turned off when your wife unloads all of her stress on you? 
This is interesting to me because when I avoid my husband when I'm upset, but then he wants me to "talk" but what he really wants is for me to STFU and go back to being happy again. 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

MrsAldi said:


> @badsanta
> Do you get turned off when your wife unloads all of her stress on you?
> This is interesting to me because when I avoid my husband when I'm upset, but then he wants me to "talk" but what he really wants is for me to STFU and go back to being happy again.
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


Actually when my wife is upset or stressed out, I find I respond to her stress by becoming highly aroused! My wife and I communicate about this so that she is aware of that. At times it now becomes rather comical! 

We will be sitting on the couch and I will have done something stupid. She will become rather critical towards me and it will make me upset. I start getting defensive and aroused all at the same time. That is just how my personality works! ...so I have an internal conflict of interest that I want to get defensive and yell back at my wife, while at the same time I will want to beg her to shove her boobs in my face. OMG she takes full advantage of that to win arguments in the house!!!! Nowadays when she yells at me, she will purposely pull her shirt down to reveal extra cleavage. To defend myself from this move of hers, I'll pretend that I am really NOT in the mood and insist she put her boobs away. Then I don't have to beg because she will immediately shove them in my face! ...after that, what where we arguing about again?

>

Badsanta


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@badsanta wow your sexual tension sounds all messed up - kind of like the bad 8mm porn I recall from my youth. I keep expecting to hear a guitar whammy bar, picture you with a 70's pornstache delivering a pizza, and your W as the big boobed blond woman at the door arguing about the pizza when the action starts. Is that TMI?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

TheTruthHurts said:


> wow your sexual tension sounds all messed up - kind of like the bad 8mm porn I recall from my youth.


 @peacem has accused me of conditioning myself to use arousal as a form of emotional self defense. In other words if my wife tends to arbitrarily reject me, I simply learn how to enjoy that instead of getting upset. It is like a very skilled game of sexual chess with my wife.

WIFE: (preemptively) Please do not plan on bothering me, I am not in the mood tonight!

BADSANTA: You know how rejection gets me all excited, and I am tired and really just need to go to sleep. Please stop trying to get me all aroused!

WIFE: (speechless)

BADSANTA: Now look what you have done! >

WIFE: (about to fuss at me)

BADSANTA: Aaaaa?

WIFE: (speechless)


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

NobodySpecial said:


> So here is a speculation. And I hope it is not mean or in any way missing the point in a hurtful way. The overarching message I get from these posts is the DRIVE. And *the wife is a vessel for the drive*. Arousal that is disconnected from the person that is your wife. I mean, I was goofing when I made the joke about the pepe cartoon. But it is kind of on point. I would feel like a husk of a body of THAT is what my husband wanted from me.* Just a vessel for his drive*.


Not sure where that came from but avoiding non-sexual intimacy is just step one in avoiding Sexual intimacy. In other words you can pack up your vessel and put it in cold storage.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

badsanta said:


> @peacem has accused me of conditioning myself to use arousal as a form of emotional self defense.


I have no recollection of this...but perhaps I'm a genius. 

I go through phases of thinking I've got all this sex business sussed. And then I remember that people are complicated and then complicated people are coupled together. 

To me cuddling/massaging/bathing/touching...whatever should be done (especially when you have children) at every possible opportunity. If one person gets aroused that should be seen as a affirmation that something is alive in their marriage and a happy ending should be had all round. If neither finds this sexually arousing you have had a precious moment of skin to skin contact which is essential for bonding. Avoiding non-sexual contact is crazy to me. But I am not someone who would ever encourage ignoring arousal either - that stuff has gotten me into trouble in the past and I know where it leads. Not ever going back there.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Mr. Nail said:


> Not sure where that came from but avoiding non-sexual intimacy is just step one in avoiding Sexual intimacy. In other words you can pack up your vessel and put it in cold storage.


I agree. Depending on the context it can be a slow road to sitting on separate sofas and sleeping in separate beds. 
@badsanta - When we start threads a large number of viewers may remember our username and avatar. A smaller number may remember our previous thread. An even smaller number will remember most of our threads and posts. A tiny minority will remember every detail of our marriages that we have chosen to share. I guarantee none of us know the whole story. So you will get a range of advice that makes no sense. But it is well meaning all the same (I am mainly talking about myself).

This is what I have been thinking. Last weekend H and I were having morning intimacy before the children woke up. Just as an erection came, my son was knocking at the door wanting breakfast. So erection was ignored and we began hurrying ourselves into parent duties. Later I asked H what about the erection and he said 'I just ignore it...'. So, the rest of the day he was preoccupied with the thought that later in the evening we will continue where we left off - it is a nice preoccupation and come the evening there is a sense of urgency and passion which is right up my street and worth waiting for.

The difference between that situation and yourself is that you know, I know and possibly your wife knows that unfinished business may be tomorrow, next week, next month....so just ignoring it is a completely different ask. I understand why you wouldn't want to risk arousal. It is risky - frustration - built up resentment - midnight rows....(I'm having flashbacks :awink

From what I remember your wife has always been in control of your intimacy. She even controls which sex books you are allowed to read. There is very little wiggle room if she is not in the mood, no give or take, no meeting in the middle. You get frustrated and resentful, she feels guilty and inadequate, she will occasionally give you a few hints to make you think...'tonight'...which momentarily eases your frustration and her guilt, but the evening comes and she is tired. It is not a long term solution. 

I don't know what the solution is but I do understand why you would want to avoid non-sexual intimacy and why that may be problematic to HER. But that is perhaps for you to compassionately explain and for your wife to start meeting you in the middle for her benefit as well as yours.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

badsanta said:


> Awkwardly enough I agree with you and also insist the same is true for a woman (or LD partner) that only wants nonsexual intimacy that is unwanted by the HD partner. That is also a form of just using your partner when the other person does not want that.
> 
> Regards,
> Badsanta


Yes. Indeed. Using your partner for whatever your own needs are does not amount to intimacy at all. In any form. Intimacy is a shared thing. Which is why I think that is not what you are after at all. You are after sex. Nothing wrong with that. But understand what it is.


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

This was timely. The other night I was on the couch with my wife after the kids were in bed. We were cuddling and being affectionate and I became aroused. After I shared that I was sexually charged, she replied very bluntly, "No! That's not happening tonight!" That type of rejection is painful, but I've learned not to respond to it. She wanted to resume cuddling and was rubbing my leg and thigh. I was literally in pain. I got up abruptly and said no, that I can't do that if it can't lead to more. She was visibly upset with me and said that she was just loving on me. She didn't realize that she was getting her needs met for nonsexual affection at my expense. And to her I was just being an ******* for shutting it down. I think she really thought I was punishing her. It wasn't a good turn of events. Usually I can just suck it up and cuddle - I really love that too. But for whatever reason my desire level was too high to tolerate that. The whole situation is like water on the campfire. 


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> Yes. Indeed. Using your partner for whatever your own needs are does not amount to intimacy at all. In any form. Intimacy is a shared thing. Which is why I think that is not what you are after at all. You are after sex. Nothing wrong with that. But understand what it is.


I'll give you an example of nonsexual intimacy...

She will ask for her back to be rubbed while she talks about all the stressful things from her day. This may last for up to half an hour. I'll get tired and stop rubbing her back, and then she whines and wiggles to insist that she wants more. Instead I'll ask to take a break and for her to scratch my back a little. She will do this, but for no more than 45 seconds or so and that is it. I can ask for more and I'm not joking, she will actually give me just 1/2 of a scratch (less than one stroke of her hand across my shoulders). Then she will begin tickling my back or pulling hair so that I stop asking. 

When it comes to my needs for more nonsexual intimacy such as scratching my back she will refuse and begin citing:


cleaning the house
taking care of the kids
having to deal with my family

Meanwhile when I try to cite taking her out for a nice diner just the two of us to her favorite sushi restaurant, pampering her with dumplings, and both of us having a really great time, that does NOT count for nonsexual intimacy. 

Like you just commented, she often just accuses me often of wanting her for nothing more than sex and just trying to use her! To me this comment from her hurts. But I get over it, keep my chin up, and continue to love her!

Badsanta


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> Yes. Indeed. Using your partner for whatever your own needs are does not amount to intimacy at all. In any form. Intimacy is a shared thing. Which is why I think that is not what you are after at all. You are after sex. Nothing wrong with that. But understand what it is.


This is a really interesting perspective NS. I can relate to it in terms of pre-marriage boyfriends, who most certainly made me feel used at times. There was one guy who was a lot older than me who I realised just wanted sex with a young girl - he had no interest in me whatsoever. There was also a boyfriend who would have sex with me then not contact me for days and days. Then back again when he was horny.

Compare that to my H. I recently had a kidney infection which meant sex was out of the question as it felt as though I had been kicked in the back. The best I could do is lie there. For weeks he 'used' my body to M. And I loved it. It was incredibly validating that he found my poorly body erotic and that he was turning to me for his sexual needs. Things are similar when I am menstruating. 

The difference in being 'used' is that afterwards we hold the moment; giggle about stupid things, talk into the early hours. He gets up early to make me tea, he takes my son out for a few hours so I can do jobs. Then there are times (as he is getting older) that things are not going to happen, usually when he is tired, so he gets my box of tricks out or uses his hands to make me orgasm. I am most definitely 'using' him as solitary masturbation has become somewhat lame in comparison. 

So I think the issue of being 'used' has to be put in context of what is going on in a non-sexual way. I never really got into the idea that doing dishes, preparing meals, putting the kids to bed = sex. But now I think I am starting to understand it.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

badsanta said:


> I'll give you an example of nonsexual intimacy...
> 
> She will ask for her back to be rubbed while she talks about all the stressful things from her day. This may last for up to half an hour. I'll get tired and stop rubbing her back, and then she whines and wiggles to insist that she wants more. Instead I'll ask to take a break and for her to scratch my back a little. She will do this, but for no more than 45 seconds or so and that is it. I can ask for more and I'm not joking, she will actually give me just 1/2 of a scratch (less than one stroke of her hand across my shoulders). Then she will begin tickling my back or pulling hair so that I stop asking.
> 
> ...


You really don't understand what I am trying to say to you. You think I am just being a beotch. What BOTH of you are doing is not intimacy at all. It is using each other. If the acts of service like back rubs or sex are not mutually enjoyed, it is not intimacy. You keep trying to stick your expectations into an incorrect reality.


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

badsanta said:


> I'll give you an example of nonsexual intimacy...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Don't you ever feel like a loyal dog to an owner that doles out more beatings than belly rubs? I'm not sure that I could continue to love someone so indifferent to my needs. I've felt that at one time and the resentment nearly crushed any love I had for my wife. I refuse to accept such inequity from someone that professes to love me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

rich84 said:


> This was timely. The other night I was on the couch with my wife after the kids were in bed. We were cuddling and being affectionate and I became aroused. After I shared that I was sexually charged, she replied very bluntly, "No! That's not happening tonight!" That type of rejection is painful, but I've learned not to respond to it. She wanted to resume cuddling and was rubbing my leg and thigh. I was literally in pain. I got up abruptly and said no, that I can't do that if it can't lead to more. She was visibly upset with me and said that she was just loving on me. She didn't realize that she was getting her needs met for nonsexual affection at my expense. And to her I was just being an ******* for shutting it down. I think she really thought I was punishing her. It wasn't a good turn of events. Usually I can just suck it up and cuddle - I really love that too. But for whatever reason my desire level was too high to tolerate that. The whole situation is like water on the campfire.



I've been in this situation before! And I would actually be OK remaining on the couch and cuddling if I got a sense that my wife enjoyed me being aroused by her, even if it was not going to happen. But when a spouse REJECTS the fact that she is getting you aroused and insists that those feelings are unwanted at that time, YES it hurts and is painful.

My wife always accuses me of just arbitrarily getting myself aroused as if it was an untimely decision of mine to mess up a perfectly wonderful moment. She could almost never see that I was very attracted to her and that it was being close to her that was getting me aroused.

I later found out she had very low self esteem about her body image, and literally thought she looked like, "a big fat cow" in her own opinion. It took me a while to appreciate that my arousal would cause her anxiety in the forms of:


she thought I had been watching porn earlier in the day and needed to relieve that sexual tension by using her (NOT TRUE).
she could not accept that I was aroused by her, and becoming physically intimate would force her to confront her own body and contempt she had for her own looks.

I have been working aggressively to help her improve her self image and see that she actually is beautiful. Our teenage daughter even got involved in the debate over self image and got VERY UPSET at her mom for calling herself fat. She told her, "mom, you are beautiful!" This made my wife start crying. Hearing it from our daughter was much more sincere and honest for her to hear than compared to hearing it from me. When I would tell her, she just convinced herself that I was lying and trying to manipulate her. She has had, and still does have trouble believing it. 
@rich84 I am not sure if this is the case for you, but it is something to be aware of. Women, no mater how fit or slim they are, get bombarded by advertising that tells them they will never look good enough in order to sell them more products. Meanwhile us men are often like honey badgers with regards to our self image! Wow, look at this HUGE scar I got across my face honey, doesn't this make me look cool (just an exaggeration)! 

Badsanta


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

badsanta said:


> I've been in this situation before! And I would actually be OK remaining on the couch and cuddling if I got a sense that my wife enjoyed me being aroused by her, even if it was not going to happen. But when a spouse REJECTS the fact that she is getting you aroused and insists that those feelings are unwanted at that time, YES it hurts and is painful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Body image issues are a major influencing factor in my wife's libido too. She also sees herself as disgusting and my desire for her is seen as me being a pig (because who would be attracted sexually to her in this state?!!). I've tried to help her increase her confidence, but it comes from within. 


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> You keep trying to stick your expectations into an incorrect reality.


Like telling my wife she is beautiful and expect her to enjoy a sincere compliment! 

Agreed!


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

badsanta said:


> Like telling my wife she is beautiful and expect her to enjoy a sincere compliment!
> 
> Agreed!


Exactly.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

rich84 said:


> Body image issues are a major influencing factor in my wife's libido too. She also sees herself as disgusting and my desire for her is seen as me being a pig (because who would be attracted sexually to her in this state?!!). I've tried to help her increase her confidence, but it comes from within.


If you are sincere in telling her she is attractive, DO NOT give up! But do be aware your wife faces anxiety with confronting her own body when it comes to the idea of trying to enjoy physical intimacy.

I find it helpful to tell my wife that we BOTH need to take care of our health and that I want us to help each other. I also combine this with the fact that despite some minor issues with getting older that I still see her loyalty and hard work with our family as things that make her extremely attractive to me and that my body responds to that. THIS is honest, but perhaps avoids the issue that I do find her physically attractive as a means to help her avoid issues she has with her own self image. It works! It is not ideal because I do not want to validate her feelings that she thinks she is ugly, but I have to find creative ways to tell her she is beautiful that tiptoe around her issues with self image.

Badsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> Exactly.


I want to hate you for that comment, but I admit you are likely correct...


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

rich84 said:


> Body image issues are a major influencing factor in my wife's libido too. She also sees herself as disgusting and my desire for her is seen as me being a pig (because who would be attracted sexually to her in this state?!!). I've tried to help her increase her confidence, but it comes from within.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't mean to sound harsh towards your wife but only she has the power to change either the way she thinks about herself, or the way she actually looks. I see women no older than 40 just give up - which is fine as long as you feel good about yourself inside. Whatever you say will be the wrong thing if she is in the mindset of ugly. If we don't feel sexy it is hard to be sexy. So how I overcame this was I faked it. I acted sexy (as convincingly as I could) and...eventually.... I felt sexy. But you cannot persuade someone of this, they have to work it out themselves.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

rich84 said:


> Don't you ever feel like a loyal dog to an owner that doles out more beatings than belly rubs? I'm not sure that I could continue to love someone so indifferent to my needs. I've felt that at one time and the resentment nearly crushed any love I had for my wife. I refuse to accept such inequity from someone that professes to love me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I wonder if this is what resonates with me about this situation. It does not seem like love. Without love, no intimacy exists. It is just quid pro quo. 

Physical touch if very much NOT my love language. It very much is my husband's. When he was sitting this morning and I ran my hands over his chest and head it was to make him feel good. The thing *I* got out of it was *his* vocalization of pleasure. THAT is intimacy. The action is not relevant.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

NobodySpecial said:


> Yes. Indeed. Using your partner for whatever your own needs are does not amount to intimacy at all. In any form. Intimacy is a shared thing. Which is why I think that is not what you are after at all. You are after sex. Nothing wrong with that. But understand what it is.





NobodySpecial said:


> You really don't understand what I am trying to say to you. You think I am just being a beotch. What BOTH of you are doing is not intimacy at all. It is using each other. If the acts of service like back rubs or sex are not mutually enjoyed, it is not intimacy. You keep trying to stick your expectations into an incorrect reality.


I'm not sure I'll ever understand your definition of intimacy, much less share it. But your double entendres are amusing.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Mr. Nail said:


> I'm not sure I'll ever understand your definition of intimacy, much less share it. But your double entendres are amusing.


Double entendres? What the heck is that? Intimacy is the sharing of a bond of love. Acts are motivated be feelings. One possible set of feelings is give to get. That is not intimacy. 

Example. My husband does not like beef. Or potatoes. He comes home and cooks me a wonderful steak and baked potatoes with brussels sprouts. He does not want anything from me. He is saying, this is for you. I wake up and see my husband sitting with his coffee. I run my hands on him. I hear him sigh in pleasure. I don't want anything from him. When we experience problems with our kids and know that we can handle it TOGETHER. When we come together with our bodies and enjoy EACH OTHER. Those things are intimacy.

I am not sure what is unclear about this.


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## Married27years (Jun 16, 2016)

You should have gone into the bedroom with her and given her a back rub, even if you get arroused. This is all part of being intimate with your wife without having sex. My husband doesn't like having sex at night but we are intimate in other ways, cuddling, kissing and then I give him a back rub every night. I know this won't lead to sex but it doesn't matter because this is a way for us to be close and intimate without having sex. Avoiding being intimacy with her because it won't lead to sex has taken a toll on your wife. She feels you only want to touch her because you are hoping it will lead to sex.

My advice is to cuddle, kiss and give her back rubs at night assuming it won't lead to sex. You two will become closer and she is more likely to want to have sex with you when she feels close to you.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> Double entendres? What the heck is that? Intimacy is the sharing of a bond of love. Acts are motivated be feelings. *One possible set of feelings is give to get. That is not intimacy. *
> 
> Example. My husband does not like beef. Or potatoes. He comes home and cooks me a wonderful steak and baked potatoes with brussels sprouts. *He does not want anything from me.* He is saying, this is for you. I wake up and see my husband sitting with his coffee. I run my hands on him. I hear him sigh in pleasure. *I don't want anything from him. *When we experience problems with our kids and know that we can handle it TOGETHER. When we come together with our bodies and enjoy EACH OTHER. Those things are intimacy.
> 
> I am not sure what is unclear about this.


I agree the notion of giving without expecting anything in return is noble and all that shît, but in many relationships it is just not that simple. Keep in mind that nobility often tax the shît out of any and everyone around them! 

I once told my wife that the one thing I valued and enjoy most in life is my desire to be with her, and that I would not change that for all the money in the world. So she knows I desire her. While I do not exactly give to get, I do have to actively work with her on understanding what her needs are and give that to her. In return she understands she does also has to work with me so that at some point I can acknowledge her making an effort in our relationship.

I would not call this giving to get, but more about teaching our partners how to give in ways that will be appreciated. So it is more like understanding you might need help to give and helping your partner give to you as well. Emphasis on the "helping" part as what is actually perceived as true intimacy, and not so much the giving or getting parts!

When my wife after twenty years finally started opening up about what she needed in order to feel loved from me, it was as if my prayers had finally been heard! She continues to help me learn these things, and I continue to help her. For us this might even include putting a little space between us in a way that the following "discord" actually serves to create a more respectful form of tension between us. A little distance can be a healthy thing, especially if it prevents us from what you define as "using" each other and becomeing a little more self reliant.

Badsanta


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

badsanta said:


> I agree the notion of giving without expecting anything in return is noble and all that shît, but in many relationships it is just not that simple. Keep in mind that nobility often tax the shît out of any and everyone around them!


It is not about being noble. It is about being in love. Is your wife in love with you?


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> Example. My husband does not like beef. Or potatoes. He comes home and cooks me a wonderful steak and baked potatoes with brussels sprouts. He does not want anything from me. He is saying, this is for you. I wake up and see my husband sitting with his coffee. I run my hands on him. I hear him sigh in pleasure. I don't want anything from him. When we experience problems with our kids and know that we can handle it TOGETHER. When we come together with our bodies and enjoy EACH OTHER. Those things are intimacy.
> .


If I waited for my H to make my favourite meal I would be waiting a long time. If I want him to do that for me I would have to buy the ingredients, give him polite written instructions, and then remember to reciprocate his efforts.

Some relationships are not as perfectly harmonious in our differences as yours seems to be. Often one person is required to carry the other. This often means we have to use a combination of cunning psychology and deep compassion for theirs (and our) flaws. We have to think outside the box.


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

peacem said:


> I don't mean to sound harsh towards your wife but only she has the power to change either the way she thinks about herself, or the way she actually looks. I see women no older than 40 just give up - which is fine as long as you feel good about yourself inside. Whatever you say will be the wrong thing if she is in the mindset of ugly. If we don't feel sexy it is hard to be sexy. So how I overcame this was I faked it. I acted sexy (as convincingly as I could) and...eventually.... I felt sexy. But you cannot persuade someone of this, they have to work it out themselves.




She cannot seem to fake it. Not in her personality. And she has yet to seize her power. Even when I was overweight, I found it within myself to enjoy things and not limit myself. For her, and for others in her family, if the task seems very difficult, they choose to give up without trying. She's realized this and is working on it. She is actually disgusted at her family members for doing this same thing. 


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Married27years said:


> You should have gone into the bedroom with her and given her a back rub, even if you get arroused. This is all part of being intimate with your wife without having sex. My husband doesn't like having sex at night but we are intimate in other ways, cuddling, kissing and then I give him a back rub every night. I know this won't lead to sex but it doesn't matter because this is a way for us to be close and intimate without having sex. Avoiding being intimacy with her because it won't lead to sex has taken a toll on your wife. She feels you only want to touch her because you are hoping it will lead to sex.
> 
> My advice is to cuddle, kiss and give her back rubs at night assuming it won't lead to sex. You two will become closer and she is more likely to want to have sex with you when she feels close to you.


I agree and disagree with you. The dynamics in some relationships can get a little more complex. Imagine if your husband might get frustrated with you if you do NOT give him a back rub and help him calm down for sleep at the end of the day. In this case while the back rub may seem like a great form of nonsexual intimacy, perhaps it is leaning more in the direction of a toxic codependency of someone who is unable to handle stress. While YES, it is great to be able to comfort our partners occasionally, it can become rather taxing when it is expected and one-sided. 

My wife has argued with me that she needs sex to happen more "naturally" and without any negotiation, planning or arguing. While that sounds great, I have to insist that it will never happen naturally unless she helps me to make it that way. She is now the one deciding that she might need a little more space at moments when I am likely to become too aroused. 

So my situation is not as if you are unwilling to give your husband a back rub even though he will not be in the mood. My situation is more like your husband asking you NOT to give him a back rub because he does not want to be around you in the event he gets you aroused. His reasons for not wanting to get you aroused is what he needs in order to relax and not to have to worry about making you feel ignored. This space in turn actually helps him to better enjoy the moments when he DOES want to get you aroused! 

If you are someone easily aroused, it is NOT always easy to see that sometimes your partner just needs a little extra space. Even if sex will not happen, the fact that nonsexual intimacy is charged with arousal can actually cause stress for the person that is not in the mood.

Desire sometimes just needs a little distance in order to thrive. 

Badsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> It is not about being noble. It is about being in love. Is your wife in love with you?


I'll answer this question in her words...

When I almost died once she was confronted with the idea of living the rest of her life without me. She was surprised that she was not scared by this possibility because I have supported her career to the point that she could be completely independent from me rather easily. Having experienced that, she was happy when I recovered and that we get to continue loving one another. So she stays married to me because she wants to and not because she needs to. THAT for her is something that she says is wonderful to feel in a marriage. 

Badsanta


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

If, "You keep trying to stick your expectations into an incorrect reality." isn't a double entendre, it should be.

Intimacy is a shared vulnerability that builds trust. It is the environment were love can grow. It is not love. When vulnerability is responded to with assault it does not build trust, without trust love dies.


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> I wonder if this is what resonates with me about this situation. It does not seem like love. Without love, no intimacy exists. It is just quid pro quo.
> 
> 
> 
> Physical touch if very much NOT my love language. It very much is my husband's. When he was sitting this morning and I ran my hands over his chest and head it was to make him feel good. The thing *I* got out of it was *his* vocalization of pleasure. THAT is intimacy. The action is not relevant.




Sure. You didn't do that just so that your husband would meet your love language. You did it without any expectation of a return. That's how it should work. You're both freely and actively meeting each other's needs. There's no mismatch in the flow back and forth. Nobody feels the other's needs are unrealistic, gross, or painful emotionally/physically to meet. Nobody accepts significantly more than give. 

In a mismatch, the more giving partner gives and gives until they pop their head up from all that giving and realize that it's been quite some time since they received. Now they may have received a host of gifts, but it's not the gift they needed. Their partner loves them, but they just cannot deliver on the one thing they really need. It may be selfishness, cluelessness, or the perception of personal harm, but it isn't necessarily a lack of love. 

This is where covert contracts come from. If I just try harder, do this, do that, be a perfect spouse, then maybe they will want to meet my need. Doesn't work that way. 

I genuinely think that sex forces my wife to confront her personal demons about her body image issues. And this causes her pain. Enough pain that she would rather avoid it despite actually enjoying sex. Until her drive overpowers it. Until she perceives that she's risking the relationship. Until she has a good day in terms of self-confidence. 

I think that badsanta's wife is a mix of selfish and clueless. He's told her a million times in a million ways that he needs sex. She disagrees and isn't willing find a workable compromise. Doesn't mean she doesn't love him. It just means she's entrenched on this issue. 




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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

..............You don't always get what you Waaaant!..............................

No, you can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometime you find
You get what you need

Rolling Stones - 

.....................................................................................................

And you sometimes get what you deserve.....sometimes............the warm fold, or the knuckles.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

rich84 said:


> I think that badsanta's wife is a mix of selfish and clueless. He's told her a million times in a million ways that he needs sex. She disagrees and isn't willing find a workable compromise. Doesn't mean she doesn't love him. It just means she's entrenched on this issue.


THIS is a good point, but I have moved past that, and here is where we are:

I do NOT necessarily need sex, but I do need for her to accept the desire I have for her. Accepting my desire just means her appreciating that I find her very attractive and allowing my desire to be something positive in our relationship. Easier said than done! But it has been happening. 

While my wife does not exactly compromise herself so to say, she has now been willing to work as a couple so that we can help accept and appreciate our differences just the way they are. The key ingredients seem to be communication, patience, and appreciating each other's intent. 

Badsanta


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

*THE CAROUSEL*



badsanta said:


> Like you just commented, she often just accuses me often of wanting her for nothing more than sex and just trying to use her! To me this comment from her hurts. But I get over it, keep my chin up, and continue to love her!


You're just going round and round in circles to little end.

If you are sexually attentive you should feel no shame in wanting to use your sexual partner.

Why aren't you often telling your wife, that you want to use her for sex?

That said often doesn't mean labouring the point.

How about changing tack.


*IN SICKNESS*

*Her Turn*

*W:* You just want me for sex./?

*M:* No I don't, you're so much more to me than... blah, blah, blah... *

*W:* You're just using me for sex./?

*M:* No I'm not, I love you and connect with you... blah, blah, blah... *

*W:* All you want me for is sex./?

*M:* No I don't, I just want to share positive... blah, blah, blah... *

* Ugh.


*AND HEALTH*

*Her Turn*

*W:* You just want me for sex./?

*M:* Absolutely!*

*W:* You're just using me for sex./?

*M:* Yes.*

*W:* All you want me for is sex./?

*M:* Yes.*

* All without further explanation or caveat, because you are making it explicit that you desire her.

*Your Turn*

*M:* I want you for sex.

*M:* I want to use you for sex.

*M:* I really want you.

*M:* I really want to use you.

*Mix It Up*

*M:* You just want me for sex.

*M:* You're just using me for sex.

*M:* All you want me for is sex.

*More*

*W:* If you weren't with me, you'd be having/wanting sex with someone else./?

*M:* Of course I would. *

* Don't tap dance, don't try to reassure her (since your desire is implicit in your choices), just use the simple matter of fact truth, because the same can apply to her as well. If you want to be treated credibly, you need to be credible.


*DO A TWIRL*

*Her:* "*You* just *want* to use *me* for sex!/?"

*Him:* That's right, *I do*!" 

*Her:* ...Oooh he still thinks I'm a star, do a twirl...


*UGH*

*Her:* "*You* just *want* to use *me* for sex!/?"

*Him:* *No I don't*, you are so much more to me than that. *I want* you to understand that I love you. *I want* you to understand that, *I want* to connect with you, *I want*... blah, blah, ****king blah... !"

*Her:* ...Ugh, I guess he still wants sex. Yet there's no way he lusts for me! I may as well be a hole in the wall, since I seem to be everything other than luscious...


*CLOSING*



badsanta said:


> I do NOT necessarily need sex, *but I do need for her to accept the desire I have for her.* Accepting my desire just means her appreciating that I find her very attractive and allowing my desire to be something positive in our relationship. Easier said than done! But it has been happening.


If you're not a selfish lover and you do want her to accept your desire for her! Try admitting it by telling her *you do want* to use *her* for *sex*. Instead of telling her that *you don't want* to use *her* for *sex*.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Personal said:


> *You're just going round and round in circles to little end.*
> 
> If you are sexually attentive you should feel no shame in wanting to use your sexual partner.
> 
> Why aren't you often telling your wife, that you want to use her for sex?


I do agree that it feel like I go round and round in circles.

I do NOT feel like I want to use my wife for sex, as I am very talented and creative to handle that all by myself. The reason I desire my wife is because I want to connect with her on both an emotional and physical level. OK, slamming the breaks for a moment on my squeaky merry go round.... shît this thing is hard to slow down .... .... bear with me ..... ..... .... .... (FÜCK) ...... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... (scraping sounds...................... grinding to a halt sound finally).

OK, I got it to stop for just a moment before I jump back on and spin it back up into the disturbed sexual reality in which I live. Regardless of how I feel, I do know when I have sex with my wife that she often feels it is a need I have and that I compel her to accommodate that. While she will respond nicely and enjoy these moments together, she simply does not share my level of motivation for sex. I've never stopped and considered how she may react if I indicated that I wanted to "use her!" She may like that b/c it will validate how she often feels, and get the impression that I am finally coming to terms with how she views my sexuality. If done playfully and with the correct intent, this may be good advice.... If not and she explodes, I'm all too familiar with that and know exactly how to handle that. So before I hop back on and start going again, I'll kick to spin myself in the opposite way and see what happens....

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Personal said:


> *THE CAROUSEL*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


^^^The voice of reason in a simple sentence Personal. 

'Using' is such an emotive word deliberately designed to induce guilt in the context of this thread. Of course it is possible to be OK/thrilled with being used and using with the caveat that holistically everything else is healthy within the relationship. I think BS has been groomed to feel ashamed of wanting to have lots of sex and getting aroused by his wife's body, almost like it's a disability. :scratchhead:. 

The original question was 'How to avoid nonsexual intimacy?'. But I think the answer is you don't and shouldn't. A better question should be 'How can my wife learn to enjoy by my arousal - even when we don't have sex?'. (Answer:therapy)

Yesterday I was chopping onions in the kitchen, my husband came up behind me and hugged me - I could feel his erection, I got a rush of 'love', I carried on with the cooking. It wasn't a threat - it didn't mean we had to have sex. It was just a pleasant affirmation that all is well. I like to think this is normal.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

*How to avoid nonsexual intimacy?*

This any good?











Someone once emailed this to me and it made me giggle so much I kept the image because I had an inkling it would come in useful. Its original purpose if for women to masturbate whilst simultaneously shaving their legs. Genius!

This would make a perfect gift for Mrs Santa this Christmas, you just have to angle it right on her back and then just leave her to it. Keep checking on her and adjust the angle as necessary. A useful labour saving device whilst you get on with other things. Problem solved?



(I am just being a little bit cheeky here) >


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

badsanta said:


> I'll answer this question in her words...
> 
> When I almost died once she was confronted with the idea of living the rest of her life without me. She was surprised that she was not scared by this possibility because I have supported her career to the point that she could be completely independent from me rather easily. Having experienced that, she was happy when I recovered and that we get to continue loving one another. So she stays married to me because she wants to and not because she needs to. THAT for her is something that she says is wonderful to feel in a marriage.
> 
> Badsanta


Well ****. That is freaking positive. Something to work with here?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Mr. Nail said:


> If, "You keep trying to stick your expectations into an incorrect reality." isn't a double entendre, it should be.
> 
> Intimacy is a shared vulnerability that builds trust. It is the environment were love can grow. It is not love. When vulnerability is responded to with assault it does not build trust, without trust love dies.


Yes. Almost perfect. I would say that the only condition that can engender that vulnerability is love.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Too tired to receive a massage last night, but still stayed up an hour after me reading. It's 3:30 and I'm not in bed because she will want morning sex (after an hour of massage) this morning so she can tick sex off her to do list for the week.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Mr. Nail said:


> Too tired to receive a massage last night, but still stayed up an hour after me reading. It's 3:30 and I'm not in bed because she will want morning sex (after an hour of massage) this morning so she can tick sex off her to do list for the week.


Wow on the hour massage. Does she at least reciprocate? I think you should be "too tired" this morning for morning sex!


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

rich84 said:


> Sure. You didn't do that just so that your husband would meet your love language. You did it without any expectation of a return. That's how it should work. You're both freely and actively meeting each other's needs. There's no mismatch in the flow back and forth. Nobody feels the other's needs are unrealistic, gross, or painful emotionally/physically to meet. Nobody accepts significantly more than give.
> 
> In a mismatch, the more giving partner gives and gives until they pop their head up from all that giving and realize that it's been quite some time since they received. Now they may have received a host of gifts, but it's not the gift they needed. Their partner loves them, but they just cannot deliver on the one thing they really need. It may be selfishness, cluelessness, or the perception of personal harm, but it isn't necessarily a lack of love.
> 
> ...


Yes. What to do with this information?


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> Yes. What to do with this information?




Destabilization vs. acceptance. He's working at the latter. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

rich84 said:


> Destabilization vs. acceptance. He's working at the latter.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just strikes me as the wrong choice.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

rich84 said:


> I think that badsanta's wife is a mix of selfish and clueless. He's told her a million times in a million ways that he needs sex. She disagrees and isn't willing find a workable compromise. Doesn't mean she doesn't love him. It just means she's entrenched on this issue.


She has been willing to compromise, but I was too often unwilling to recognize or accept her offers as I saw them as duty sex. I used to wait for a moment when she would be receptive, which in turn put too much pressure on her to enjoy it when I initiated. Once I learned to back off, let her enjoy pleasing me, and wait until she asked for things, we have been working towards a much healthier marriage.




NobodySpecial said:


> Yes. What to do with this information?





rich84 said:


> Destabilization vs. acceptance. He's working at the latter


Ultimately "acceptance" is the answer in almost every marriage in my opinion, but not in the form of accepting the problems, but instead learning to accept each other in ways that can be appreciated and enjoyed.




NobodySpecial said:


> Just strikes me as the wrong choice.


Right or wrong, if it means I am about to learn something the hard way, that is very familiar territory for me. I sometimes can't win for loosing... ,but I know optimistic persistence usually pays off in the long run. 

My wife would roll her eyes and tell TAM:










But I would give you a huge smile, point to my undeniable results, and say:










Badsanta


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

badsanta said:


> She has been willing to compromise, but I was too often unwilling to recognize or accept her offers as I saw them as duty sex. I used to wait for a moment when she would be receptive, which in turn put too much pressure on her to enjoy it when I initiated. Once I learned to back off, let her enjoy pleasing me, and wait until she asked for things, we have been working towards a much healthier marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You're an incredibly optimistic man, BS. Have you ever lost your positivity with your wife and let her know that you were very displeased with her? I wonder how much she relies on your unflappable resilience? Or is she indifferent to your withdraw? 


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

rich84 said:


> You're an incredibly optimistic man, BS. Have you ever lost your positivity with your wife and let her know that you were very displeased with her? I wonder how much she relies on your unflappable resilience? Or is she indifferent to your withdraw?


OMG we used to argue all the time over sex! For her "arguing over sex" was the one thing that was becoming unbearable to her, even to the point she admits to feeling like she did not love me anymore at some points. My biggest complaint years ago was that I felt like she would not even try. What I could not see was that she was very willing to please me, but that I would not allow her to do that until insisting that it was a mutually enjoyable opportunity. I would then force her to try to enjoy herself, that would fail, make her feel inadequate, and then the arguments would begin.

Now I keep myself unrealistically optimistic. I allow her to enjoy pleasing me, and guess what? She responds very well to that! If I give her enough space (keep my hands off of her with regards to anything that might be overstimulating for her), she eventually starts asking and wanting things. Then the sparks start flying! The level at which she can enjoy physical intimacy at this point is often mind blowing for me. But it was not easy for me to get to this point as it requires:



Waiting to initiate intimacy at a point where my desire to be with her has built up to a point to where it responds to universal stimulus (meaning she can do whatever she wants to make me climax and I will respond without fail).
Be romantic with intimacy, but avoid stimulating her until she is ready and asking me, and understand that she still loves me and enjoys pleasing even if she does not respond by feeling/desiring her own physical pleasure. 
Communicating when my libido has become overactive and needy so that we can mitigate problematic situations. This includes avoiding nonsexual intimacy at these times because it will make me too aroused at moments when she does not have the energy/patience/mood to enjoy pleasing me. 
Keep a positive attitude, even when all forms of intimacy may be problematic for whatever reason 

Now that things have been turning around there are times when she finds herself in the mood, and she will out of nowhere drag me to the bedroom! Not often, but it has happened in the past few months about once or twice.

Badsanta


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Sex with your life partner shouldn't be this hard...


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Livvie said:


> Sex with your life partner shouldn't be this hard...


In a LTR that has spanned a few decades, enjoyable sex REQUIRES continued personal development. This is at a point in life where many become set in their ways and do not want things to change anymore. Good sex requires you to embrace change in order to experience the most in life.

If maintaining quality intimacy is easy, then you may have stopped progressing as a person and are heading for a world of hurt, OR you have learned early in life to embrace change as a way of life.

Badsanta


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I've thought a million times that BS's wife doesn't love him. But like my puppy he keeps coming back for more.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I've thought a million times that BS's wife doesn't love him. But like my puppy he keeps coming back for more.


Now see, I've often thought the same thing at times! Turns out many times my wife was struggling to believe that I actually loved her. We both struggled with our own self confidence and did not feel deserving of being loved.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Wanting to feel loveed is not the same as loving someone.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Wanting to feel loveed is not the same as loving someone.


A better way to say that is, "wanting to feel loved in the ways you will easily recognize it, is not the same learning to recognize the ways people actually love you. Loving someone in the ways you want to be loved back is not always the way another person will want/need you to love them."

Then we get into a discussion of love languages, but for me it is about personal development to learn to appreciate things and be confident/strong for your partner at all times. 

So @WorkingOnMe have you ever avoided nonsexual intimacy for any reason or felt your partner avoided it for reasons you did not understand? I think everyone does it, but rarely is it ever a topic that many of us explore becuase it is so closely tied to the vulnerabilities of wanting to feel loved and not being sure if your partner loves you or not.

Badsanta


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## biwing (Feb 2, 2017)

This is a good post as my life is like these posters!

I'm constantly playing up my wife and her looks, how I still adore her like when we first met, hold her hand, shower hugs, complement that although were both ageing I still desire her body and mind and all I get in return as to compliments is an occasional nice buns ................. (Were 68 and 66yrs old respectively)

I could use more comments and suggestions from her to boost my ego and lead to naked cuddling but now I am begining to think from these posts that she is withholding so that it won't lead to sex. (I'm very easily turned on BTW) 

She has medical problems that limits PIV sex to a couple times a year and I understand that completely, but she doesn't lead at all to cuddling or spooning. I'm always the one to pursue these desires.

I'm going to talk to her about these ideas as posted above and maybe work it out. 

Thanks All


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

peacem said:


> You may remember that we decided well over a year ago to be intimate with each other whenever one of us asks or initiates. So this may mean I am given orgasms where H has no erection. In the same way I am happy to do things for him when I am tired and not aroused, menstruating etc. Then there are times when we just sync (which is amazing but not the holy grail).


Yay for pragmatism!


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