# His home, his choices...



## greeneyedlady (Apr 24, 2014)

I am new to this. My husband and I have been in an ongoing fight about the house. 
For background, I moved into his home 4mo before our engagement. He bought the house new and choose every finish in the home and hung pictures he had ordered on an a standard art/poster website (even even said he filled it with travel pictures because he did not want to be living there at the time). He had a nice couch and bedroom set, but otherwise it looked like a bachelor pad. He told me I could "do what I want" with the guest room, but that we needed to make decisions together about the common areas, and began to call the guest room "your room" and the office "his room". 
Over the past 2 years, we have had on and off arguments about the house. With discussion and my ideas, a few things have changed in the house. We have changed the pendant lights, added shelves in the closet and the dining area, new LR chairs, a patio replaced the weeds and pictures on the stair wall. We made the decisions together. Although it was my idea, he had many opportunities to say "no, I do not like it" and I continually asked his opinion. Often he is indifferent and says nothing or that he doesn't care, but the other half of the time he says "we don't need that", "it works fine how it is", "we don't need to spend the money" (i contribute equal pay). He continues to throw those examples of the decisions made together back at me, stating at one point "I let you do this.." and "You changed all these things". 

He wants me to check with him before I do anything. ANYTHING, this includes if I exchange a picture on the wall, move a piece of furniture or even an item of his off the counter on his side of the bathroom. When I asked what things I had done to the house without checking with him, he listed three things. A christmas wreath hung on the front door with removable hook , pictures above the bed hung removable tape, and a cork wreath I made replaced one of the pictures he had hung. He then said I change his bedside table on a regular basis and he doesn't give me flack for that...I dust! I move the stuff and make it neat after I dust. 

He says we need to make decisions together, that it is "mutual respect" and he would never touch something of mine without checking with me first. I feel like he doesn't trust me to do the right thing and has no mutual respect for my hobby and has no trust in me. I have stated repeatedly, I would not get rid of his stuff without checking with him first. I have stated repeatedly I would not make big decisions without checking with him first. He thinks anything that ANY changes the aesthetics of the home, whether it be simply moving a photo is a big change and we should decide together and I should wait to "discuss" with him. I translate that to "you need to check with me before doing it", even if it can be simply moved back or returned. 

Organizing and home decorating are hobbies of mine, and I find great enjoyment in it. I feel like I cannot do it because I have to check in with him on everything. I work 3 long shifts a week and have days off while he works his day job. I find it unreasonable to have to text him while he is in a meeting, wait for a response or to wait till he gets home to do anything. Of course, if i wait till he gets home, then I am busy making dinner for us because he expects dinner to be ready when he gets home. Half the time my "checking" with him results in an argument because he feels it is unnecessary to change anything, or he want to organize it himself. He is not the best with organization and it has taken him over 2 years to "organize" the office...the progress made is that we can now see the floor. (eventually the office will have to be shared, as the guest room will become a nursery...if things get better)

I could go on and provide more examples and a better timeline. 

I have also been trying very hard to be patient with him and I spend a lot of time explaining how I feel and communicate my wants and needs. I feel like roommate in HIS home, not OUR home. He won't budge and I am feeling more isolated. I got so angry and upset last night I slept in the guest room. I do not know what to do.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

How old are you and how long have you been married?
Part of the process of marriage is you learning about him and him learning about you. And learning how and when to assert yourself and how and when to let things go. So possibly you are just describing a normal process of getting to know each other.

Now, you may think he feels possessive that this is "His" home..... But nothing you post distingues that mentality from a guy who is just a little too controlling and particular. Maybe he would be just like this in any house.

I think you have to do some further investigation. I would start a conversation that starts with "To me, this house feels like YOUR house and not OUR house"... and sit back and let him speak. And in the conversation advocate for your needs as a woman to create her home environment.

If you discover that he feels he has greater rights, then I would suggest you advocate for moving to a new home what the two of you can create together.

I would not agree to a policy that we have to mutually agree on every little thing. And you are a grown woman so you can choose to disagree with your husband's policy ideas....

Do you two share your money?


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

I would have a serious conversation with him and tell him you are moving out within "x amount of time" (arrange for it prior to talking to him).

Explain that you just don't feel like this is our home, mostly his home and clearly he is very protective of it and wants final say on anything and everything. Clearly you don't want to live like that and it's effecting you deeply.

It just doesn't feel like 50/50 decision making and is not a good indicator of what's to come in the future.

I would also put the marriage on hold as well......

He is not very willing to compromise it seems. And marriage is ALL about compromise. 

There is no I in marriage, you guys are/will be a unit now and you both need to think this way. It seems like you are willing to think this way, but he isn't and wants to be controlling etc.

Ask yourself, are you willing to put up with this for the rest of your life?

Remember, what you see is what you get. I applaud you for dealing with this now rather than expecting some kind of miracle change once you get married (mistake that SO many people make).


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

DoF said:


> I would have a serious conversation with him and tell him you are moving out within "x amount of time" (arrange for it prior to talking to him).


DoF, they are actually married, so you might want to rethink your advice. The husband has trust issues and threatening to abandon him will only make that far, far worse. It would quite likely be irreparable.


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## greeneyedlady (Apr 24, 2014)

I am 33, he is 40. First marriage for both, first time living with a SO. We both contribute equal income, I am not on the title of the house because I have not contributed a significant amount of money to it, but we share finances. Our money together pays the mortgage and property taxes.
This has been going on for 2 years. 
I moved in 4 mo prior to our 1 year engagement and we were married 7 months ago. We had arguments in the 4 months prior to the engagement but I had yet to move ALL my belongings into the home (much was in a storage space across the country and has since been moved in). Wedding planning took priority of the home after the engagement (I planned the entire wedding myself, and we had some cultural conflicts with his parents at the time). 
Now that the wedding is over, and I can focus on the house to make it our home and prepare it for the future, as we would like to start a family. 
Hicks: I have repeatedly had this conversation, stated that it feels like HIS home, and I would like to make it OUR home and work for the two of us, not just him and his needs. It always ends in the same statements from him about mutual respect for decisions and then he relates he doesn't feel like it is his place anymore and I have "taken over" because I do what i want. Everything I have done I have checked with him (minus the 3 temporary items mentioned). When I bring up the topic of changing things he gets angry and states "I don't appreciate what I have" &"we don't need that"

Unfortunately, moving to a new home is not an option (i have broached the subject). Housing prices have skyrocketed in our area and we cannot afford a new home. We are saving for the future, but in the short term it is out of our reach.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

greeneyedlady said:


> I am 33, he is 40. First marriage for both, first time living with a SO. We both contribute equal income, I am not on the title of the house because I have not contributed a significant amount of money to it, but we share finances. Our money together pays the mortgage and property taxes.
> This has been going on for 2 years.
> I moved in 4 mo prior to our 1 year engagement and we were married 7 months ago. We had argument in the 4 months prior to the engagement but I had yet to move ALL my belongings into the home (much was in a storage space across the country). Wedding planning took priority after the engagement (I planned the entire wedding myself, and we had some cultural conflicts with his parents at the time).
> Now that the wedding is over, and I can focus on the house to make it our home and prepare it for the future, as we would like to start a family.
> ...


My DH paid the down payment on our house with money from his savings...I'm still on the loan and title bc my money is going toward paying off the home. Get yourself on the title ASAP. You're 33 honey,wth were you thinking with a move like that? Protect yourself bc this man obviously is NOT looking out for your best interests. This is not HIS home...it's the marital home to which you are BOTH entitled to equal say and equal share.

Your DH is so wrong on all counts but you are even more wrong for letting another person do you like this. You two need counseling. He's never going to change or listen to you without the help of a professional.


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## greeneyedlady (Apr 24, 2014)

His parents assisted with the down payment. Houses in our area are crazy expensive and neither he nor I could ever afford one on our own. I am not looking for a handout or a part in something I did not contribute to. 

I slept in the guest room after a big screaming match last night. 2nd one this week. He said nothing to me this AM and just left for work, without saying a word (I often get the silent treatment from him). I am so upset. I have threatened to get an apartment on my own, because I cannot live in home where I cannot make decisions. 

I am considering texting him and telling him I am staying at a hotel until he can act like I am his wife.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

ScarletBegonias said:


> My DH paid the down payment on our house with money from his savings...I'm still on the loan and title bc my money is going toward paying off the home. Get yourself on the title ASAP. You're 33 honey,wth were you thinking with a move like that? Protect yourself bc this man obviously is NOT looking out for your best interests. This is not HIS home...it's the marital home to which you are BOTH entitled to equal say and equal share.
> 
> Your DH is so wrong on all counts but you are even more wrong for letting another person do you like this. You two need counseling. He's never going to change or listen to you without the help of a professional.


Ok so a man buys a home before meeting a woman. He decorates it. He gets married and then suddenly he relinquishes all rights to the house he bought?? I don't follow this reasoning. Just another woman who feels a man's possessions are hers to do as she sees fit.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

greeneyedlady said:


> His parents assisted with the down payment. Houses in our area are crazy expensive and neither he nor I could never afford one on our own. I am not looking for a handout or part in something I did not contribute to.
> 
> I slept in the guest room after a big screaming match. He said nothing to me this AM and just left for work, without saying a word. I am so upset. I have threatened to get an apartment on my own, because I cannot live in home where I cannot make decisions.
> 
> I am considering texting him and telling him I am staying at a hotel until he can act like I am his wife.


It doesn't matter who paid the down payment. Having your name on title is important bc you are putting your money into this home. Do you want him to have the right to put you out on the street every time he gets a notion to do so? There shouldn't be a screaming match about this. You deserve certain things as an equal member of this marriage and as an equal contributor to the care and payments of this home. Even if you weren't making payments on it,you STILL have the right to have your name on it.

Do your best to take the emotion out of your discussions about this with him. Don't text him or anything like that. This needs to be done without threats and without screaming. What you need to do is get your ducks in a row and organize exactly what you wish to communicate to him. Write it down if you have to and then discuss it calmly. Let him know this is not how you wish to live. He needs to understand you WILL leave if he isn't going to respect you and stop controlling the marriage the way he is. It's not a threat if it's a fact. Then tell him you need him to attend MC with you asap. It's not an option,it's a necessity at this point.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Regarding not being able to afford a new home..... If housing prices have skyrocketed, then the house you are living in has also skyrocketed, and therefore you can sell it and buy one of equal value. What you "pay" is the transaction cost of a real estate agent, closing etc. Also, where is it written that everyone must own their home? Is home ownership more important than mutual happiness in a marriage? Renting a home in a happy marriage is a better choice than owning a home in an unhappy marriage.

Was this behavior apparent proir to marraige? Maybe I"m reading into things but it looks like you were hell bent on marriage and did not necessarily focus on evaluating who it was that you were marrying.

HEre are the cards I would play:

He says, it doesnt feel like "his house" any more... Your answer: We are married, this is OUR house. I"m not your tenant, I'm your wife.

If he says this is about mutual respect, ask him how he has shown any respect to you as his wife?

Tell him until this feels like a "nest", no one will be laying any eggs.

If you move things to dust, ask him "What do you want to do, dust this yourself or have me move things"?

You just have to keep working and be persistant...


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

jb02157 said:


> Ok so a man buys a home before meeting a woman. He decorates it. He gets married and then suddenly he relinquishes all rights to the house he bought?? I don't follow this reasoning. Just another woman who feels a man's possessions are hers to do as she sees fit.


My understanding was he purchased the home to be the marital home so his wife and he could live there and build a life TOGETHER. Also, I don't give a rats little furry tush if he bought the home prior,bottom line,he's married now and that was his choice. He moved his wife into the home,that was his choice. now he needs to put on his big boy panties and respect that she has equal say BECAUSE THEY ARE MARRIED. 

Check my history,bro. I walked away from a LOT of money and ton of properties bc I don't feel women are just entitled to whatever a man has. 

But I DO feel a woman is entitled to things she is contributing to.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

jb02157 said:


> Ok so a man buys a home before meeting a woman. He decorates it. He gets married and then suddenly he relinquishes all rights to the house he bought?? I don't follow this reasoning. Just another woman who feels a man's possessions are hers to do as she sees fit.


Speaking as a man... If I bring a partner into my home (married or living together), I would want her to feel at home. This means giving her some control over how it looks. Actually, to be honest, since my place still looks like a bachelor pad after 3 years, she could do pretty much anything she pleases so long as it isn't really offensive to me. 

For that matter, my SO (who doesn't live with me) has a standing agreement with me that she can buy whatever she likes to decorate my place, but just hang on to the receipt. I get final veto, but I don't think I've ever used it. 

Personally, I think there's room for compromise between the two of them, and they better find a way to deal with issues like this, or the marriage is in trouble. This is a symptom of a much bigger problem. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greeneyedlady (Apr 24, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> Ok so a man buys a home before meeting a woman. He decorates it. He gets married and then suddenly he relinquishes all rights to the house he bought?? I don't follow this reasoning. Just another woman who feels a man's possessions are hers to do as she sees fit.


I am not looking to get rid of all his stuff, I am looking to organize it. I am looking to blend and make decisions together. He decided on all the things in the home before knowing me, just as I decided on my furniture and decorating items. I asked him whether he liked every item I had before I used it in the home. I gave him a choice in all my belongings and if he did not like it, I got rid of it. Am I supposed to just sit back and have absolutely no say in something because it was in his home before I got here? I moved into HIS home, but if he wants it to be OURS, I have to have a say in some things. 
He didn't decorate it much, he hung up framed travel posters. He had minimal furniture for himself and used metal folding chairs for guests. He has no interest in decorating and organizing. It is a hobby of mine and organizing is a stress reliever and I enjoy it. 
I can't do what I enjoy for fear of his reaction.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

I was thinking about your post and read this article: 

My Husband is Rigid and Rejecting | Psychology Today

You said you have expressed your need to be creative in your environment with respect to home decor. You haven't been too successful in shaking your DH's comfort zone. 

I would suggest taking a series of short outings with your DH to show him some of your design preferences in a neutral setting (like a store or a showroom). Let him start by showing you what he likes and see if you can build from there. Start with a small area of the home and see if you and agree to try a design change for x months.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

greeneyedlady said:


> I am not looking to get rid of all his stuff, I am looking to organize it. I am looking to blend and make decisions together. He decided on all the things in the home before knowing me, just as I decided on my furniture and decorating items. I asked him whether he liked every item I had before I used it in the home. I gave him a choice in all my belongings and if he did not like it, I got rid of it. Am I supposed to just sit back and have absolutely no say in something because it was in his home before I got here? I moved into HIS home, but if he wants it to be OURS, I have to have a say in some things.
> He didn't decorate it much, he hung up framed travel posters. He had minimal furniture for himself and used metal folding chairs for guests. He has no interest in decorating and organizing. It is a hobby of mine and organizing is a stress reliever and I enjoy it.
> I can't do what I enjoy for fear of his reaction.


Exactly. A mature man understands these things and respects them. A mature man appreciates the beauty and comfort a woman's touch can bring to a home. A mature man isn't threatened by his wife wanting equal say in things.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Yeah, don't run away to a hotel.

I would say marital counseling is your best bet.

He does seem like a jerk, but at the same time he should not automatically owe you 50% ownership of a house he bought when single....

This won't be solved in one day. Don't have kids. Spend time figuring out who this man is. Spend time advocating for what you want. Allow him to choose to give it to you or refuse. Stop aruging and fighting. State your needs and allow him to make choices. Then evaluate whther you stick with him or not. So far, he does not seem so great from what you have written. IF he is not a good husband then by all means don't turn him into a father.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Virtually any guy who has even a basic understanding of women would know that the OP's husband is making a huge mistake if he cares about staying married. To deny a women decorating rights is no different than denying a man sex. It's biological.


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## greeneyedlady (Apr 24, 2014)

PBear said:


> Speaking as a man... If I bring a partner into my home (married or living together), I would want her to feel at home. This means giving her some control over how it looks. Actually, to be honest, since my place still looks like a bachelor pad after 3 years, she could do pretty much anything she pleases so long as it isn't really offensive to me.
> 
> For that matter, my SO (who doesn't live with me) has a standing agreement with me that she can buy whatever she likes to decorate my place, but just hang on to the receipt. I get final veto, but I don't think I've ever used it.
> 
> ...


That is all I am asking to do. I would make a large purchase for something that cannot be returned without checking with him first. I would not make permanent changes or big changes without checking with him first. I have not gotten rid of anything of his without checking first, nor do I plan to. 

When I mention putting up shelves in the garage and re-organizing it, he says we can discuss it, but he never does and it never gets done. I mention organizing the bathroom drawers and countertop, but he doesn't want me to touch his stuff. He wants me to wait till he comes home and ask him to do anything that involves something of his. 
( I worry the next argument being that i nag him too much to do stuff, it has already happened a few times)


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Again, the fact that you two can't discuss things without fear of a blowup argument is symptom of bigger issues. Would marriage counseling be an option? Maybe you two just need some help in communicating effectively, especially when it comes to things that involve compromise. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Also going to comment as someone going through this.

Divorced three years ago, I kept the marital home since I was only one who could afford it. Early last year I finally renovated same house to make it more me. It turned into a guy house for sure...lol but I wasn't seeing anyone at the time so made no difference.

Met Gf bout a month later and she will be moving in next week after a year of dating. She had some ideas about the house and I have no issue with them. I only asked that we agree on things. Some areas of the house I could care less about, kitchen for example. She asked if she could rearrange it and I said sure it's our house and that doesn't bother me so why not. Living room I am particular about so some of her ideas I liked some I didn't. Point is we talked and compromised. If I had the notion this is my house and you just live here then I would be better off staying single


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Hicks said:


> Virtually any guy who has even a basic understanding of women would know that the OP's husband is making a huge mistake if he cares about staying married. To deny a women decorating rights is no different than denying a man sex. It's biological.


Have no problem so long as agreement and compromise is used so both people are happy


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

This is the first time he's ever lived with an SO?

Maybe he's just used to having everything his own way and doesn't know how to share. In which case, he needs to learn because otherwise he will drive you away.

I agree 100% with your policy to never throw away anything of his, but would put my foot down about freedom to change things.

Personally, I would just go ahead and do those things I wanted to do (with consideration to his aesthetic tastes, of course), and if he complained, just point out how much better everything is now.

And if he kept complaining, I'd go on a nice long vacation so that he could fully enjoy his house, his choices, and his responsibilities without me there to bug him. 

Then see how he feels about sharing.


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## 101Abn (Jan 15, 2014)

I can't understand why he would object to your input especially when you said interior decorating is your interest and hobby and you are paying into the household costs.I always paid the mortgage and bills and never said it was my house.As for painting and decorating I let my wife choose because I am color blind and heaven knows what it would have looked like if I did it.Having such big fights over this so early in the marriage is not good and as other posters suggest maybe some counceling.Best of luck.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

greeneyedlady said:


> That is all I am asking to do. I would make a large purchase for something that cannot be returned without checking with him first. I would not make permanent changes or big changes without checking with him first. I have not gotten rid of anything of his without checking first, nor do I plan to.
> 
> When I mention putting up shelves in the garage and re-organizing it, he says we can discuss it, but he never does and it never gets done. *I mention organizing the bathroom drawers and countertop, but he doesn't want me to touch his stuff. He wants me to wait till he comes home and ask him to do anything that involves something of his. *
> ( I worry the next argument being that i nag him too much to do stuff, it has already happened a few times)


My radar went up when I read the bolded part. My first thought was "I wonder what he is hiding that he doesn't want you to find?" When you mention bathroom, aren't you talking about toothbrushes, razors and the like? And you are not allowed to move or organize them? And this has what exactly to do with "ownership" of the house? (Referring to his little tantrums as I would imagine you have the same question at times.)

What is the worst he could do if you started organizing without his "permission". Divorce you? Is it that serious? And, assuming it is (to him), would he consider counseling?


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

greeneyedlady said:


> I am not looking to get rid of all his stuff, I am looking to organize it. I am looking to blend and make decisions together. He decided on all the things in the home before knowing me, just as I decided on my furniture and decorating items. I asked him whether he liked every item I had before I used it in the home. I gave him a choice in all my belongings and if he did not like it, I got rid of it. Am I supposed to just sit back and have absolutely no say in something because it was in his home before I got here? I moved into HIS home, but if he wants it to be OURS, I have to have a say in some things.
> He didn't decorate it much, he hung up framed travel posters. He had minimal furniture for himself and used metal folding chairs for guests. He has no interest in decorating and organizing. It is a hobby of mine and organizing is a stress reliever and I enjoy it.
> I can't do what I enjoy for fear of his reaction.


I guess my reaction to this is due to my wife's claim to being a "decorator". We bought our first home a couple of years ago after struggling financially for a long time. It was a new house...everything was as we both wanted it. Then she comes along and starts painting the walls...every room downstairs was a different color and I absolutely hated it. I said that if she painted one more room I was going to repaint the entire house back the way it was. Isn't it important to agree on something like this??


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Agree that serious communication issues are present.

A talk with him that a marriage is 50/50 and so is the home. He has never been married and it seems he is set in his ways. He needs to let go of this. It sounds like you are being considerate of costs and his taste. 

You do mention culture - what are the differences? Is his culture one where the man makes decisions and women aren't as vocal? 

If he is concerned he won't be able to find his stuff in the bathroom and he is just SO used to always having things in a certain place, leave it as long as he has made space for you and your toiletries. 

Some things you may need to leave/let go - don't organize his dresser if you have your own. Areas you share should be 50/50. Some men don't see the value in "home" vs. "house". To him this is just a place to live. To you, it's a place to make memories. It may be a Mars/Venus thing.

Regardless, communication will be required to resolve this one.


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

Compromise. He has to learn it. My husband and I bought our house together before we were married and he's the only one on the title, fair enough, I'm a SAHM and he pays the bills. We recently had to rebuild our home due to a natural disaster, but refurnishing has been really easy because for all the BS problems we have, compromise is not one. Couch, I hate the fabric he chose, but got the shape I wanted and we agreed on color. Kitchen appliances, he wanted stainless steel (which I hate and I am the one to clean the smudgy kid prints off), I wanted black. We got SS BUT I got to pic out the style and features or the fridge, stove, and dishwasher. Wall hangings are solely my "job" and anything electrical (overhead lights, fans, security systems) are all on him. Our desk; he found one he really liked, I made a few tweaks to the design and had the compromised design built. Heck, even our dogs... I was breed specific but he picked which pup out of the litter and immediately agreed to the name I suggested as I didn't mention any name until I had found one I knew would appeal to both of us. 
The only thing he would not budge on was the bed. He's had the same bed for 31 years and I hate it. I don't like thinking that all of his exes have slept in my marital bed  Yuck.

Though this makes me wonder... how similar are you and your H in tastes? I guess I lucked out and found a man with an almost exact asthetic liking as myself. The biggest difference is that he is a boarderline hoarder and I'm a minimalist so his possessions take up infinitely more space than mine.


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## Row Jimmy (Apr 15, 2013)

My wife let's me have full input on her decorating ideas then does whatever the heck she wants. 

In return, I get to decorate my garage how I want and make the final decision on our vehicles. If she came into my garage and started rearranging my tools I'd be pissed. 

It makes her happy to make these decisions so I don't make too many waves as I have better things to worry about. (like who controls the remote during NHL playoffs) 

You need to learn how to communicate without fighting and how to pick your battles. Don't escalate this by having screaming matches or by running away.

If you can't do it on your own then MC is the next step.


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## greeneyedlady (Apr 24, 2014)

survivorwife said:


> My radar went up when I read the bolded part. My first thought was "I wonder what he is hiding that he doesn't want you to find?" When you mention bathroom, aren't you talking about toothbrushes, razors and the like? And you are not allowed to move or organize them?
> 
> I trust he isn't hiding anything. He says the bathroom is organized to his liking, but it is products stuffed into drawers. The tons of extra bottles and things on the counter bugs the hell out of me, and is more for me to dust. He wants me to take care of "my side" and then let him take care of "his side". I am simply trying to help and make things neater and cleaner, while giving myself a project to do and making me happy to see stuff organized. If there was anything he did not like that I had done, he could easily move it back the way he had it. meanwhile, it will still remain clean and somewhat organized and labeled.
> 
> ...


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Some people have their brains operating where physical location of objects is mapped into their logical construct of the world and updated only when they move something themselves. I am one of those people. For some strange reason my kids never touch my stuff or move it. Maybe because I don't touch their stuff or move it, because they are the same way. My older son was also this way. I noticed when he was 4 months old I set him on the floor to play and he immediately went to look under a chair where he had left a toy the day before. I never moved anything of his again, ever. 

It could be that you are messing not with simple objects such as a chapstick container or a tissue box or a chair, but you are totally rearranging someone's internal mapping of the world. 

When they go to retrieve an object and it's not there, or moved, it messes with their minds. There is a schism between what their brain registered was and should be there (very good memories, in fact I make a lot of money putting my memory to use in my work...) and what is now actually there. 

In a home or work environment this is absolutely maddening. I regularly change up where I put my kitchen utensils, there are 4 urns on the counter where I put them after washing, but I can find stuff almost right away. Likewise, my utensil drawer where I have yet more utensils is always a jumble but it's mapped into my mind, where stuff is, or whether it's still on the drying rack. My pantry and my fridge and freezer are the same. I could tell you EXACTLY what's in my fridge item for item and I didn't even take the time to try to memorize it. I just know.

IF your H tells you he doesn't want things being moved around you shouldn't act like it's abnormal to want things that way. Personally, I think it's abnormal to touch other people's stuff and move it around and mess with their flow in their own environment with their own objects. Just because you're married and a woman and into home decorating doesn't mean you automatically get to change up a house. It sounds like you made a big assumption, and now because of how he likes things, you're blaming it on his equity, when it probably has nothing to do with that.

By the way, I didn't know that different people had different brains until it was explained to me by neurologists. I had always assumed that everyone mapped objects like I do and thought in pictures. But, they don't. I have no idea how people think about objects, but I do know that there's no way I have ever moved anything that belonged to someone else. There is one exception and that's my dining table. If the kids leave anything there, there is a certain bin where I will put it if they're not around to remove to their own preferred location. Otherwise, no touching. lol.

Your H is not weird, or controlling, in my book he's completely normal.


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## greeneyedlady (Apr 24, 2014)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Some people have their brains operating where physical location of objects is mapped into their logical construct of the world and updated only when they move something themselves. I am one of those people. For some strange reason my kids never touch my stuff or move it. Maybe because I don't touch their stuff or move it, because they are the same way. My older son was also this way. I noticed when he was 4 months old I set him on the floor to play and he immediately went to look under a chair where he had left a toy the day before. I never moved anything of his again, ever.
> 
> It could be that you are messing not with simple objects such as a chapstick container or a tissue box or a chair, but you are totally rearranging someone's internal mapping of the world.
> 
> ...



I work in medicine and I am familiar with neurological differences in how people perceive things. I am not going to change the places of of his daily things, simply place them into neat clean bins and most importantly, clear off the clutter of the countertop. He has 10-12 unused cologne bottles in the back of the cabinet, that have been sitting used for over 3 years. When I moved in, he had cabinets and drawers full of plastic bags. I am not planning on getting rid of stuff without asking, I am not talking about a drastic change in layout. I would still leave his hair gel in the drawer. I want him to trust me to do the right thing, which he clearly does not.

He wants me to check with him prior to purchasing a holiday wreath and hanging it on the front door with temporary hangers, wants me to wait till he comes home before I hang a picture. He considers my "moving" his books on the nightstand to dust as choice on something I changed without consulting him.


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

greeneyedlady said:


> . I am not going to change the places of of his daily things, simply place them into neat clean bins and most importantly, clear off the clutter of the countertop.


I read this and went "HUH?" I read it to my husband and as he often does, gave it back to me as he heard it, "I'm not going to change things, I'm just going to change them." 

There you go.


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## greeneyedlady (Apr 24, 2014)

MyHappyPlace said:


> I read this and went "HUH?" I read it to my husband and as he often does, gave it back to me as he heard it, "I'm not going to change things, I'm just going to change them."
> 
> There you go.


Bathroom drawers aside, he can keep them how he wants them. The mess is annoying, but they are his. Why can I not clean the counter tops? We share that space. 
In short, the bathroom is just a tiny part of the issue. I can let the bathroom go. It is the fact that I have to check in for everything. Is it acceptable that I must check with him before purchasing a wreath for the front door, a pillow, or move a piece of furniture, etc..? I have to check in with him before I do ANYTHING at all. 
I want to be able to make choices on my own, and not have to get his permission for everything. 
If I do ask permission, then I am told we don't need it or it is fine the way it is and it has functioned fine for him and I do not need to change anything. Either way, I make him mad and i get the silent treatment and attitude from him


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MyHappyPlace said:


> I read this and went "HUH?" I read it to my husband and as he often does, gave it back to me as he heard it, "I'm not going to change things, I'm just going to change them."
> 
> There you go.


As often happens, if you cherry pick a few sentences you can make what the OP is saying be what you want it to be.

She has clearly stated that she wants to organize and get rid of clutter. .like get rid of empty bottles, draws stuffed with plastic bags.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

greeneyedlady said:


> Bathroom drawers aside, he can keep them how he wants them. The mess is annoying, but they are his. Why can I not clean the counter tops? We share that space.
> In short, the bathroom is just a tiny part of the issue. I can let the bathroom go. It is the fact that I have to check in for everything. Is it acceptable that I must check with him before purchasing a wreath for the front door, a pillow, or move a piece of furniture, etc..? I have to check in with him before I do ANYTHING at all.
> I want to be able to make choices on my own, and not have to get his permission for everything.
> If I do ask permission, then I am told we don't need it or it is fine the way it is and it has functioned fine for him and I do not need to change anything. Either way, I make him mad and i get the silent treatment and attitude from him


Does your husband check with you before he buys something new for the house? Does he check with you before he moves things around?

If what your husband is arguing against is unused cologne bottles, he’s got a problem. Are the bottles empty? If not, is the cologne still good? Cologne does go bad.

Cabinets and drawers full of plastic bags? Do you mean like shopping bags? He sounds like a hoarder. If he is, you have only seen the tip of where this is going. 

Do you pay half (or about half) of the mortgage payment every month?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

MyHappyPlace said:


> My husband and I bought our house together before we were married and he's the only one on the title, fair enough, I'm a SAHM and he pays the bills.


Why on earth are you not on the title of your home??? Do you really think that just because your contribution isn't financial that it's not worth anything??? Seriously????

I'm shocked.

To the OP, I think counselling is the only way this can be solved. If your H refuses to go with you, go on your own. I'd bet the family farm that he'll hightail it there quick smart once he realises you're serious - he likes control, and won't be able to stand the thought of you talking about him without him there.

I moved into my husbands house a year before we got engaged. He said that he wanted me to feel at home, and that it was "our" house, not "his" house. At first I would ask everytime, before I changed anything or put any of my stuff out. He always said yes, and so I stopped asking and started doing. When he came in I'd say I've done X, Y, Z if you don't like it, let me know and I'll put it back. He's never asked me to put anything back the way it was. He actually prefers my way, because I make sure it's a mix and reflection of both of us.


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## greeneyedlady (Apr 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Does your husband check with you before he buys something new for the house? Does he check with you before he moves things around?
> 
> If what your husband is arguing against is unused cologne bottles, he’s got a problem. Are the bottles empty? If not, is the cologne still good? Cologne does go bad.
> 
> ...


He doesn't often buy stuff for the home. He purchased the couch and the pictures downstairs when he bought it, but he rarely buys stuff. He does not have an interest in home design like I do. It seems his idea is "if it works, why change it". When I moved in, he was using blankets his mother gave him that had plastic thread coming out of them. 
When I moved in, he had drawers and a cabinet full of plastic bags. He said he was saving them to recycle them (like many other items in the house) and that he liked to keep some bc he uses them for his shoes when he travels. Those are trash. I recycled most of them and kept 5 of them folded up in small triangles in a drawer for him and his travel needs. He is not quite a hoarder, but he doesn't feel the need to get rid of something if it is still "functional" in his eyes. He makes piles of stuff with the intent to sell/recycle/donate, but they just grow. He often thinks "I spent this much on this item console, I should get it repaired/sold for more"

In terms of the mortgage. we share a joint checking and savings now. He contributes to checking, and I savings. Since we make about the same amount, all bills are paid with that.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

greeneyedlady said:


> He doesn't often buy stuff for the home. He purchased the couch and the pictures downstairs when he bought it, but he rarely buys stuff. He does not have an interest in home design like I do. It seems his idea is "if it works, why change it". When I moved in, he was using blankets his mother gave him that had plastic thread coming out of them.
> When I moved in, he had drawers and a cabinet full of plastic bags. He said he was saving them to recycle them (like many other items in the house) and that he liked to keep some bc he uses them for his shoes when he travels. Those are trash. I recycled most of them and kept 5 of them folded up in small triangles in a drawer for him and his travel needs. He is not quite a hoarder, but he doesn't feel the need to get rid of something if it is still "functional" in his eyes. He makes piles of stuff with the intent to sell/recycle/donate, but they just grow. He often thinks "I spent this much on this item console, I should get it repaired/sold for more"
> 
> In terms of the mortgage. we share a joint checking and savings now. He contributes to checking, and I savings. Since we make about the same amount, all bills are paid with that.


One thing that you might be able to do with things he wants to recycle/donate/whatever is to set up a box or two someplace like the garage. Then see if you can get him to agree that things go there. Every so often you just take the stuff to someplace to donate it. (Plastic shopping bags can often be recycled at the grocery store.)

I don't get why your name is not on the title and mortgage of the house. You are paying half of payments. It's your house too. In a divorce you would get 50% of the equity that has built up from the time you married.

if he had a large down payment you two could even sign a post-nup saying that if you split, he gets his down payment back and then you split the rest 50/50.

His thinking that the house is all his might very well be based on a basic misunderstanding on his part as to how marital assets are considered.

I'm curious as to why you are putting up him not adding your name to the house.


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

frusdil said:


> Why on earth are you not on the title of your home??? Do you really think that just because your contribution isn't financial that it's not worth anything??? Seriously????
> 
> I'm shocked.



Actually, I'm not on the title because of how it was financed. Though we bought the house together, I picked it out even, we were not married at the time. He was eligible for a VA loan that enabled us to buy a home that we wouldn't otherwise qualify for, as the VA backs the loan. We also had $0 down payment and no closing costs, again because of the VA. Had I insisted that I be put on the title, we would have had to finance independantly which would have meant down payments, closing costs, lower qualification, not getting the house I wanted. We bought THIS specific house to make OUR home and raise our children in. I wasn't worried with semantics.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MyHappyPlace said:


> Actually, I'm not on the title because of how it was financed. Though we bought the house together, I picked it out even, we were not married at the time. He was eligible for a VA loan that enabled us to buy a home that we wouldn't otherwise qualify for, as the VA backs the loan. We also had $0 down payment and no closing costs, again because of the VA. Had I insisted that I be put on the title, we would have had to finance independantly which would have meant down payments, closing costs, lower qualification, not getting the house I wanted. We bought THIS specific house to make OUR home and raise our children in. I wasn't worried with semantics.


Well having your name on the title of the house is not just semantics. It's a legal issue.

I believe that he could go back now that you are married and add you to both the title and the loan. That would help your credit rating as well.

Keep in mind though, that even if your name is not on the title, since you are married to him you do have rights to the house legally. The house is not 'just' his. It's yours too. You would just need to do a bit more to get that taken care of should anything happen.


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## loveadvice (Dec 22, 2013)

I feel sorry for you.

It sounds like a very uncomfortable situation where you're not able to be completely happy in your own home.

It would be a red flag to me if I were married and got into screaming matches with my husband over decorating the house. It should be a pleasant experience to decorate one's home with one's spouse. This is the supposed to be honeymoon period.


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Well having your name on the title of the house is not just semantics. It's a legal issue.
> 
> I believe that he could go back now that you are married and add you to both the title and the loan. That would help your credit rating as well.
> 
> Keep in mind though, that even if your name is not on the title, since you are married to him you do have rights to the house legally. The house is not 'just' his. It's yours too. You would just need to do a bit more to get that taken care of should anything happen.


But to me, it is semantics. I do not own this home because I'm worried about my credit score or have nowhere else to go. I own and live here because this is my family and we belong here together. Not only could I not afford this house on my own anyway, I wouldn't want to. This is very much OUR home and without him in it, I wouldn't want it. Because of the unique laws of our state, one of only 9 states that use these specific laws, if something tragic were to happen to my husband, I am still entitled to the home whether my name is on the deed or not. Even then, I would just sell it and move. I don't want it without him. 

Same thing as marriage. We lived together, bought the house, and had children for over 5 years before we finally signed the papers. We never had any real intention of being married. We both wore rings and I had unofficially adopted his last name, but at the time, there was just no reason to marry. When we did, it was primarily for tax reasons and the conversation went like this: I was on break at work about 10 p.m. on a Friday I believe, and called him at home. Said, "Hey, you wanna get married Tuesday?" and he said "Sure, I guess." So Tuesday afternoon rolled around, we went to the courthouse and got married with another newlywed couple standing in as our witnesses and we stood in as theirs. That was it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MyHappyPlace said:


> But to me, it is semantics. I do not own this home because I'm worried about my credit score or have nowhere else to go. I own and live here because this is my family and we belong here together.


You are right, you live there because it is where your family lives and you all belong together. It’s your martial home as well. You are an adult and a full partner with your husband. Thus you should be shown the respect have your name on the title of the home you own.

Things like credit scores might seem silly to you. You apparently assume that all things will always be good and thus you can always depend on your husband’s credit. If I’ve learned on thing in this life (I’m 65 so I’ve lived a few years and seen many things) it’s that the unexpected happens. What will you do if something happens to your husband? How will you take care of your children if you have no credit, no real access to what your husband apparently feels is HIS money since you are not on HIS account? You would need to hire an attorney to even get the money to live on. You will need that attorney to do anything with the house.

Now your husband might be the nicest guy in the world and he might just not realize the ramifications of keeping your name off the house, the accounts and who knows what else. I don’t know. 

I’m sure you are going to tell us that he is indeed the nicest guy. But from here he looks like he does not look at you as his equal partner.


MyHappyPlace said:


> Not only could I not afford this house on my own anyway, I wouldn't want to. This is very much OUR home and without him in it, I wouldn't want it. Because of the unique laws of our state, one of only 9 states that use these specific laws, if something tragic were to happen to my husband, I am still entitled to the home whether my name is on the deed or not. Even then, I would just sell it and move. I don't want it without him.


I guess you are saying that you live in a community property sate? Even in an equitable distribution state you would most likely get the house if he dies. 

If you are hell bent on not being on the deed, etc., that’s your choice. 



MyHappyPlace said:


> Same thing as marriage. We lived together, bought the house, and had children for over 5 years before we finally signed the papers. We never had any real intention of being married. We both wore rings and I had unofficially adopted his last name, but at the time, there was just no reason to marry. When we did, it was primarily for tax reasons and the conversation went like this: I was on break at work about 10 p.m. on a Friday I believe, and called him at home. Said, "Hey, you wanna get married Tuesday?" and he said "Sure, I guess." So Tuesday afternoon rolled around, we went to the courthouse and got married with another newlywed couple standing in as our witnesses and we stood in as theirs. That was it.


Well, now that you are married, you have more financial stability then you did before when you were not married. You see before you married it did not matter if you pretended to be married. You have on legal rights if anything happened. Now you have some legal protections.


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

Goodness no, he isn't the nicest guy. But I'm not dependant on him either. My credit score is better than his and all open lines of credit are in my name, even though he pays the monthly bills out of "his" account. Again, I have full access to any and all money, I'm just not listed on the account and to me, that's no big deal. I have a "rainy day fund" that doesn't have his name on either, but he knows where I keep the card for the account and if he ever needed it, he's welcome to it. I guess a good chunck of why we do the things we do is because nothing is "his" or "mine", everything is OURS so it just doesn't matter whose name is listed on a silly piece of paper. All of it is just stuff after all. We've been through one separation and even though there was a lot of hurt and anger involved, we were still able to divide assets perfectly fine. Actually it was more of I said what I would like and he said "fine, take whatever." 

It makes me kind of sad to see so many people pre-planning for the failure of their marriage. I've been through a divorce before and know how incredibly hateful they can be, each side fighting over every last thing. Fighting for things they don't even necessarily want, except to spite the other who truly does want it. God forbid my marriage does end, I would rather walk away empty handed and start over from nothng again, than be involved in that amount of vindictive intolerance ever again.

To say that my H doesn't respect me because he's never added me to his accounts is a bit of a far stretch. I've never asked to be added and he doesn't think of things like that on his own anyway. I do all of the paperwork for the household and he just accepts that I do what needs to be done. If I felt the need to be on an account, I would fill out the paperwork, hand it to him to sign and he would, because that's what he does. He did make me the sole beneficiary on his life insurance when I asked which did shock me because we had only been together for 9 months at the time. I actually asked in jest because he works in a high risk profession and I found out how much his employer would pay out if anything ever happened to him. A few days later he handed me copies of the completed and accepted forms. I almost fell over in shock.


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

greeneyedlady ~ just sit down with your husband and let him know that you would like to talk without it turning into a screaming match. Use phrases like "I feel "x" when you do/say "y". "I don't feel like a wanted part of this household when I'm not able to make simple decorating changes that reflect my presence in the home." Just be honest with him. Decide ahead of time if this is a deal breaker for you. If all hell breaks loose, be glad you didn't have children with an OCD control freak


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Can you imagine what it would be like to raise a child with this man?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

If one person dislikes clutter, and the other person is OK with clutter, who "wins"? It's the person who dislikes clutter. In other words, you can't be "pro clutter". You can only not care about clutter. Therefore if it's important to your spouse to keep a clutter free environment, even though it does not bother you, it's super important to respect their need for neatness.

I personally think your husband is being needlessly stupid and this is going to cause him way more problems in life than he could ever gain by keeping wreath's off doors or his cologne bottles collecting dust on certain spots on his night stand.

In a marriage, what you have to do is look for ways to make your spouse happy. And those opportunities should be treated like golden opportunities, becuase they are hard to find.

Now, you really need to listen to everyone and not have children just yet. What you are dealing with is a normal part of early marriage. You are figuring each other out. You are figuring out how to resolve these situations. There will be many of them in your marital life and in the future. Baby multiplies this conflict by 1000. There is a poster ella1048. Read her posts to get a glimpse of your future with a baby.

So this is about how you work together as husband and wife, how you meet each others needs, what a person needs to "advocate for" and what a person needs to "let go of" for the sake of making their spouse happy. It's not about "The house" per se... 

There are a few approaches you can take:
-- Marital counseling - that is my #1 recommendation based on what you have posted
-- You start "ruling the roost" as a proper woman should. If he tells you something like "we have to discuss everything first" tell him... No, that doesn't work for me.... Or, "You moved my stuff on the counter"... Your response: "If you leave your crap on the bathroom counter, I am going to put it away becuase I hate the clutter". And do things the way you want to. You don't have to agree to everything your husband wants. Especially when he is being unreasonable. In other words, stand up for yourself.
-- He is missing out opportunities to make you happy in your marriage by denying you the pleasure of "nesting"... What opportunities are you missing out to make him happy in marriage, unrelated to the home environment? Sex? Fun? Money? Find his hot spots, make him happy and gain some "good will" where he will relax on something important to you.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

greeneyedlady said:


> I work in medicine and I am familiar with neurological differences in how people perceive things. I am not going to change the places of of his daily things, simply place them into neat clean bins and most importantly, clear off the clutter of the countertop. He has 10-12 unused cologne bottles in the back of the cabinet, that have been sitting used for over 3 years. When I moved in, he had cabinets and drawers full of plastic bags. I am not planning on getting rid of stuff without asking, I am not talking about a drastic change in layout. I would still leave his hair gel in the drawer. I want him to trust me to do the right thing, which he clearly does not.
> 
> He wants me to check with him prior to purchasing a holiday wreath and hanging it on the front door with temporary hangers, wants me to wait till he comes home before I hang a picture. He considers my "moving" his books on the nightstand to dust as choice on something I changed without consulting him.


Will you need his permission to move yourself out too then?
I'm sorry. But you really should have learned this about him before getting married. 

My kids dad is a hoarder. Every once in a while he tries to clean out his attic, but it does not go well. The last time was when I told him I would call the local fire department in his town because my daughter's ceiling over her bed was bulging due to the weight of stuff in the attic. 

It's still an emotional and neurological issue. Some people attach great emotional importance to their objects. They represent attachments, what as given to them, how things were when they placed an object there or acquired it. As for me, as much as I like objects to be in a certain place and enjoy their history, I am just now attaching emotional importance to some objects, mostly those are in my kitchen. Oddly enough, they're also the ones that would survive a fire, maybe my subconscious only allows me to become attached to the objects that will survive, haha.

It sounds like you want to be right and to win this argument regardless of the input anybody gives. 

Being right doesn't seem as though it will bring you closer in your marriage, if your goal is to be right and to stay married, it doesn't change the underlying issue/s. 

It may be that your husband is a control freak. If you want to rule out more inane, generous and sympathetic reasons such as neurological and emotional attachment differences, the only thing left is to say he's a control freak and why are you living under these conditions given the leeway and freedom you want to have to be able to mold and create your own environment.


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> It doesn't matter who paid the down payment. Having your name on title is important bc you are putting your money into this home. Do you want him to have the right to put you out on the street every time he gets a notion to do so? There shouldn't be a screaming match about this. You deserve certain things as an equal member of this marriage and as an equal contributor to the care and payments of this home. Even if you weren't making payments on it,you STILL have the right to have your name on it.
> 
> Do your best to take the emotion out of your discussions about this with him. Don't text him or anything like that. This needs to be done without threats and without screaming. What you need to do is get your ducks in a row and organize exactly what you wish to communicate to him. Write it down if you have to and then discuss it calmly. Let him know this is not how you wish to live. He needs to understand you WILL leave if he isn't going to respect you and stop controlling the marriage the way he is. It's not a threat if it's a fact. Then tell him you need him to attend MC with you asap. It's not an option,it's a necessity at this point.


While I agree with most of what you write, from a legal standpoint in my State and most others, once a person places their spouse on the title of the house, the State considers that a "gift" to the marriage. Doesn't matter if he put $100k down or $10k -- as soon as he puts her name on that deed, automatically she owns half. Doesn't seem quite fair, does it? Or...does it....


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Dreald said:


> While I agree with most of what you write, from a legal standpoint in my State and most others, once a person places their spouse on the title of the house, the State considers that a "gift" to the marriage. Doesn't matter if he put $100k down or $10k -- as soon as he puts her name on that deed, automatically she owns half. Doesn't seem quite fair, does it? Or...does it....


It does and it doesn't. It's fair if she's contributing everything she can to the care and maintenance and expenses associated w the home. It isn't fair if she just lazes about and does absolutely nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

ScarletBegonias said:


> It does and it doesn't. It's fair if she's contributing everything she can to the care and maintenance and expenses associated w the home. It isn't fair if she just lazes about and does absolutely nothing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, I would disagree about that. I could see her being entitled to half the increase in value from the time of marriage. But not half the value just because she got put on title. 

For example... Woman owns a house outright. Gets married, puts her husband on title. Now he's entitled to half the value of the home, even though he's out nothing in, never lifted a finger? Doesn't seem right. 

Sorry about the thread jack, OP! 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

PBear said:


> Well, I would disagree about that. I could see her being entitled to half the increase in value from the time of marriage. But not half the value just because she got put on title.
> 
> For example... Woman owns a house outright. Gets married, puts her husband on title. Now he's entitled to half the value of the home, even though he's out nothing in, never lifted a finger? Doesn't seem right.
> 
> ...


That seems like a more fair compromise. Good thinking I wonder why it isn't determined that way? It seems like most laws surrounding marriage and property really don't make a whole lot of sense
Eta ftr I'd think it was a more fair compromise regardless of the gender of the person who owned the home used in the example figured I got labeled a man hater elsewhere so I gotta clear that up in every post now lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

PBear said:


> Well, I would disagree about that. I could see her being entitled to half the increase in value from the time of marriage. But not half the value just because she got put on title.
> 
> For example... Woman owns a house outright. Gets married, puts her husband on title. Now he's entitled to half the value of the home, even though he's out nothing in, never lifted a finger? Doesn't seem right.
> 
> ...


Bingo. Plus, it doesn't matter whether her name is on the deed or not but it does make it more complicated legally if they divorce. If she can show marital funds were used to maintain, improve or pay for the mortgage, she would have a legal right to that portion of increased value. I'm just suggesting to the OP that this decision to add her to the deed can have huge legal ramifications and should not be done without an attorney. He could set it up so that it shows the percentage of his ownership at the time the deed was altered and any increases would be split equally upon divorce.

Equally dangerous is mixing pre-marital assets. Once comingled, the courts consider this to be a 'gift' to the marriage unless you want to hire an expensive forensic CPA to identify what were premarital assets. And the Court won't spend a whole lot of time wading through documents to figure this out -- they'll simply split it in half and move on to the next case. 

BTW, I'm not saying men aren't guilty of this -- my Mom's last husband was a prime example of a gold digger. Got over $500k of her assets despite having a prenup (very poorly written which is why he got the house and other assets). Even wanted to extract her gold teeth an hour after she passed away in Hospice because there 'was a lot of value in her mouth'....unbelievable she was married to him for only 10 years and yet he got 4x what her children received. The point of this comment is that ANYONE who has assets needs to ensure they're protected and hire an attorney to draw up the paperwork. Even then it's suspect as we found out....

It's also equally dangerous to have your gf/bf move in together when you own a house. If there's common law marriage in your State or if there's an issue of DV, you can't just kick him/her out -- they have a legal right to be there now, even if you're paying the entire mortgage, bills, etc. It just takes a simple cell phone bill and driver's license showing she lives there to prove occupancy. 

While I'm a proponent of loving, caring relationships, I won't ever bring the State into my personal life again via marriage or cohabitation.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Dreald said:


> While I agree with most of what you write, from a legal standpoint in my State and most others, once a person places their spouse on the title of the house, the State considers that a "gift" to the marriage. Doesn't matter if he put $100k down or $10k -- as soon as he puts her name on that deed, automatically she owns half. Doesn't seem quite fair, does it? Or...does it....


Nor is it fair that she is paying half of the payments on the house and has not ownership.

But there is a way around this. The see an attorney and draw up a contract (post-nup) stating that the down payment on the house is his sole property. So if the house sells, he gets his down payment back as sole property. She and he then share the remaining equity 50/50.

This is not hard to do.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> That seems like a more fair compromise. Good thinking I wonder why it isn't determined that way? It seems like most laws surrounding marriage and property really don't make a whole lot of sense
> 
> Eta ftr I'd think it was a more fair compromise regardless of the gender of the person who owned the home used in the example figured I got labeled a man hater elsewhere so I gotta clear that up in every post now lol


Generally people just do not keep good records. So the court I not going to spend a lot of time trying to figure out what people do not even record themselves.

This is what attorneys are for... to maintain good records and get an good, solid agreement between each other.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

I paid for all of it, but still put my spouse on title. And if we split, I'll probably leave him with the house, since my capacity to generate income and recover is much greater than his.

(Unless he cheats. Then I'd have to take back my half, as my revenge for the emotional trauma.)

For interior design, we work pretty well together.


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## TurtleRun (Oct 18, 2013)

Marriage is 50/50. As soon as both people agreed in the "I do" it doesn't matter who owned it first. What mine is yours is pretty much what a marriage should be.


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