# Should I pay spousal support?



## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

Okay, the above question is NOT a legal question as courts are not involved in my D process but rather a moral question. I personally feel spousal support is immoral and that grown adults should support themselves. My STBXW and I cannot agree on this and she wants money. She can't afford a lawyer to file the contested divorce necessary to get spousal support so we are stuck in a rut of sorts. I have offered in our settlement agreement to give her 750$ each month until I retire from the military. That could be in as little as 3.5 years or as many as 10 years from now. Our marriage statistics:

1. Married 14 years. My income is 6 times her income. 
2. Wife convicted of 2 counts of domestic battery against myself earlier in the month. No jail but will have to complete DV counseling and alcohol counseling and 2 years good behavior. She goes to AA daily and hasn't drank in a couple of weeks since the sentence. 
3. Wife had sex with 8 different men since Jan 2011 and is currently in a PA with guy #9.
4. No custody agreement is in place with our kids but they live with me and she pays no child support. 
5. Wife has a job albeit minimum wage but she has no real expenses other than utilities where she lives. She does not pay the mortgage on the house she is in as it is in pre-foreclosure. 

She is convinced that she is "entitled" to more SS and I feel that is not the case. In any event, what are your opinions? Should I offer to pay SS outside of a court order or signed settlement agreement? I think in light of all that has happened and my current circumstances with supporting my children by myself, I would say no.


----------



## LaxUF (Feb 13, 2012)

Yeah... ugh... no... do not pass go... do not collect $200.

I do think stay at home parent's or spouses without outside employment - who made a career of maintaining the marital home are entitled to spousal support within reason (rampant infidelity & abuse is not reasonable).


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

An unqualified no. Especially with the number of guys she recently cheated with.

Given the number of guys, perhaps you should suggest she starts charging.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Morally? Where were her morals when she was going through guys?

My answer would simply be NO.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You have left out some important bits of info.

How old are the two of you?

How old are your children.

What are your chances of being deployed?

What state do you live in?

What percentage of your joint income do you earn?


----------



## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

I say no but not because she sound despicable but because I believe the only time one should get SS is if they have been at home for many years and it would take an amount of schooling and/or time to find a suitable job. 
But yours is employed and has no bills and will not be the primary care provider of the children so there is not one reason she should have ss from you.


----------



## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

@elegirl,
I am 36 she is 35 currently in PA with 25 YO
Our children are 14, 11, and 5 and I pay all expenses for them to include our 5 YO's before and after care expenses.
My chances of being deployed, if I stay active duty, are 100% going out in July 2013. We live in Virginia. As for income if we were to add ours together, I would earn 85%. She is qualified to be a medical biller and coder (a school I paid for) but chooses not to work in that field which would pay more. I am also willing to pay for advanced schooling for her in that field to help her get on her feet. 
I agree with the majority for paying no support. I will pay child support when I am deployed and have no issue with this at all. Support of children even above the state guideline, yes. Support of deadbeat, domestically abusive, cheating spouse, NO.


----------



## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

I'm normally a proponent of spousal support but not in this instance -- esp since she refuses to work in the field that could net her more income. I think the other commenters have already covered the moral aspect 

HOWEVER -- you may have to compromise to some extent to wrap up this process, so I'd say anything you agree to should be extremely time limited, and under no circs should you be bound to anything until you retire from the military! I'd say a year tops if you have to offer her something to get closure.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

No. 
Do whatever you think won't make you look like an A** to your children when they're old enough to understand, not what feels right now. 
Having said that-Divorce on the grounds of adultery can be asserted as a statutory bar to permanent spousal support in Virginia, unless there's some manifest injustice. In VA adultery is very difficult to prove in court. Her saying she slept with a platoon isn't enough. Go figure. Also a court could impute additional income to her for voluntary underemployment. But if it ever did get to court, they're going to look at the overall standard of living and earn power of both as well as the fault in the deterioration of the marriage and might give her recuperative support (temporary). Big might So give her enough to be done with it.


----------



## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

Yeah, I tried that approach. I offered 750$/month which when combined with what she makes at her CURRENT job is more than enough for an appartment for her and the kids to visit. She has gone into typical Navy wife mode. You know the kind when the marriage breaks down and everything is now an "entitlement". She feels that since I am in the military she is "entitled" to high spousal support for life. She is being advised by other ex-Navy wives whose husbands signed agreements making them into ATMs. Not me. I wish Virginia had a law on the books preventing DV victims from having to pay SS to their abusers. I thought it was always illegal to profit from your crime.


----------



## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Well, MiVA, if I were on her side, I'd be pushing her to get an attorney, but since I'm on your side, the fact that you guys are doing this yourself is actually going to work in your favor. She cannot make you give her spousal support for life. It's annoying, but I think you have to stick to your guns here.

Meaning no disrespect to the mother of your children, but she doesn't sound like the sharpest knife in the drawer, so I think you still hold all the cards. It may just take some time to wear her down, and as Pluto said, it's worth giving her something (on a LIMITED time basis) just to get it over with. But for life? Ptui.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Morally, no. Legally, yes. 

You did choose to marry this woman and was married for quite some time. 

My husbands brother pays 2500 a month for 15 years spousal support. The kids live with him since she is an unfit mother. She had an affair on my BIL and that's what started the divorce. He makes a bit of money as you can see by the judges request. I'm assuming he's appealing the amount and time for the alimony. He lives in another state, so we don't keep in touch often. His ex has a bf that is also very well off like my BIL. 

My ex SIL told my BIL that she will get over a million dollars from him and that's her goal right in front of both lawyers. Unfortunately, it's happening. He also had to give her 400,000 cash for the house and 1/2 of whatever else.

She does pay child support, but that soon ends as the last child is nearly 18. Some women are just disgusting. Her own brother told my BIL about the affair. This was after he spent 100,000 remodeling her business that she let go in foreclosure.


----------



## 67flh (Sep 26, 2011)

she ain;t giving you any child support.. why should you feel morally responsible for ss? she made her bed {with numerous men] let her lie in it;;;


----------



## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

I'minlove, while I'm sure you are right, this is why I say that it's really good that MiVA is not doing this through the court system.


----------



## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

@Iminlovewithmyhubby, I get what you are saying and feel bad for your husband's brother who is getting screwed royally. I have a problem with being a spouse one day and a convertable annuity the next day. Our laws in the country as a whole regarding marriage and divorce are terrible and desparately need reform. I am willing to offer her some money so she can maintain the standard of living held during the marriage. With what I have offered she could live at the same level as I am right now. I would NEVER pay 2500$ per month in SS. I think I would move overseas and relinquish citizenship before I did that. He must make some serious $$.

I guess the other thing I don't understand is that since a majority of people I talk to are against spousal support, why do our laws still allow for it? Maybe time to get politically active.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Morally, if one spouse (typically the W I presume) gives up part of her earning potential so that the other spouse can have a higher earning potential and thus a higher family income and lifestyle, then the marriage ends due to reasons beyond that spouses control, spousal support is morally correct until the earning potential is restored.

If the lower income spouse never had the higher earning potential in the first place, or did not enable the other spouse to have a higher earning potential, then there is no basis for spousal support, in my moral opinion.

If the lower income spouse destroys the marriage through infidelity or even just an individual choice to leave the marriage they should forfeit any continued benefits they were getting from the marriage, namely the lifestyle associated with the higher family income. If they are the ones that broke the contract why should they be rewarded? Why should the loyal spouse be punished further - their lifestyle already takes a big hit when the disloyal leaves, they already lose the additional earning potential they had.

And obviously, to me, anything gained DURING the course of marriage should always be equally divided, under any circumstances... but we aren't talking assets, we're talking income here.

So to the OP: what did your W sacrifice (in terms of earning potential) to be a SAHM and how much did you benefit by having her raise your children allowing you to have a full time career? How much do you feel is reasonable to help her restore her earning potential to where it should be today?


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

maybe she can shack up with one of the 8 guys


----------



## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

Lon,
She had no college or other career that she was giving up. My career was not really helped along by her staying at home. My advancement was purely my own by taking examiniations and going before selection boards. She never wanted a career until the marriage starting going south. I paid for her schooling to obtain her certificate in medical billing and coding which is what she chose. I am also willing to pay for advanced schooling to allow her to enter the job market at a higher rate of pay. I offered 750$/month which is more than reasonable. She wants a share of my retirement which I am not going to budge on in light of the adultery. If this was awarded somehow by a court then I just won't retire from the military but will enter my next career and retire from there which thankfully under VA law, that retirement would be considered separate property. 
In the end, I have offered her enough to set her up in a good career, take care of back medical bills, help her move, give her enough to get a nice apartment, gave her one of the cars, get her starter furniture and the kids furniture so they can visit/live with her. I think I have been more then fair in my offer but she just wants more. It may be my time to get my attorney and file the contested D and just win by default but I am not like that. I am trying to end this with dignity and respect.


----------



## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Wait her out, M...just wait her out.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

When I left my husband I did not ask for spousal support. I was the only one with a lawyer and I only asked for 200 a month for child support. I was making more money then my ex with 2 minimum wage jobs. He worked part time working minimum wage. He was too busy sleeping with other women and racking up the credit cards. He even took a credit card in my name a month after I left him. He had stolen my checkbook and drivers license out of my car. I lived in an area where it was safe from theft. Or so I thought. 

I tried so hard to get away from my ex. He was using illegal drugs, abusive, unfaithful and extremely controlling. His behavior is so much worse today then 18 years ago. I was only with him 2 years total. We had one child together and I only married him due to being pregnant and thinking I was doing the right thing. Boy was I wrong.

My ex h tried taking me back to court for a modification to lower support. He told my daughter over and over, I was stealing all his money. When in fact he stole mine through identity theft. This was 18-19 years ago, so I was not able to protect myself and make him pay that credit card. I let it go. Somehow it was a 10,000 bill. He took my other credit card and maxed that too. I had never used it and luckily it was only 2-3 thousand dollars. The court allowed me to only pay my one credit card instead of splitting it instead of splitting the debt in half due to his horrid spending habits. He was 20-30 thousand in credit card debt and I had to pay the 2-3k that I never used. In the last 18 years he filed bankruptcy 3 times. He and his wife harassed me through the years that I was stealing his money and all I cared about was money. Dang, they are so ignorant. I'm so happy my daughter is an adult now. My ex hates my daughter and stopped talking to her at 15. He's such a scumbag. 

I learned a very good life lesson out of this. I set my standards much higher as far as dating went. Then I met my now husband a few years later. I've had the best last 13 years of my life with him. I no longer get child support and I supported for my daughter myself and with the support of my current husband. My daughter still wants to be in her biological fathers life, but he won't allow it. It hurts her that she can not have a relationship with her step siblings.


----------



## papa5280 (Oct 12, 2011)

I'll take a different approach than I've seen here. I think you SHOULD pay her spousal support for the next 13 years. $1,000 per month.

SHE should also pay YOU child support for the next 13 years. $1,000 per month.

The spousal support would be a deduction for you on your taxes and would be income on her taxes. The child support isn't income or a deduction for either of you.

So, net-net, you would be getting roughly $250 per month net income from this equal transaction.

By the way, this is one legitimate reason to have a lawyer...to advise you about the tax implications of the agreements you make.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Married in VA said:


> Lon,
> *She had no college or other career that she was giving up. My career was not really helped along by her staying at home. My advancement was purely my own by taking examiniations and going before selection boards*. She never wanted a career until the marriage starting going south. I paid for her schooling to obtain her certificate in medical billing and coding which is what she chose. I am also willing to pay for advanced schooling to allow her to enter the job market at a higher rate of pay. I offered 750$/month which is more than reasonable. She wants a share of my retirement which I am not going to budge on in light of the adultery. If this was awarded somehow by a court then I just won't retire from the military but will enter my next career and retire from there which thankfully under VA law, that retirement would be considered separate property.
> In the end, I have offered her enough to set her up in a good career, take care of back medical bills, help her move, give her enough to get a nice apartment, gave her one of the cars, get her starter furniture and the kids furniture so they can visit/live with her. I think I have been more then fair in my offer but she just wants more. It may be my time to get my attorney and file the contested D and just win by default but I am not like that. I am trying to end this with dignity and respect.


I am talking the bigger picture, not her career or education, but potential and opportunity cost of marrying you. Her earning POTENTIAL. And yes she did give up earning potential to suit the role of your spouse in the family.

And absolutely YES your career WAS helped along by her, your advancements (which were a result of your hard work and dedication) were only made possibly while also having a family because of her role in the marriage and family. If you were a single half time parent you would be in no place to advance your career unless you had hired a nanny to take care of your parental responsibilities. You chose to make a family with her and thus your earning potential (opportunity for career advancement) to contribute to the family income was increased by having a mother (whether or not you criticise her skills as such) to take care of the duties you would otherwise have had to be serving.

That being said, you certainly appear to be willing to do what you believe is right so I'm not criticising you in any way, merely pointing out that your ex DOES have SOME entitlement to her share of what you have created. As for your retirement, that is pretty much an accrued asset, so why wouldn't she be entitled to the interest income of her share of that savings? I'm not trying to say you should surrender everything she wants or feels entitled to, she could be asking way too much for all I know, I just want you to realize, as despicable as she is, she did contribute, so for your own benefit do not become resentful or bitter about what part of the family benefits go her way.

I just believe that spousal support should not be a permanent condition, its to help her restore her own earning potential, and if she is not using the spousal support for that purpose it becomes her problem if she doesn't want to realize that potential. It is too bad different jurisdictions view this all so differently.


----------



## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

Papa,
I have been thinking alot about that approach. I know SS is tax deductable which is a very attractive reason to pay SS. My situation won't allow for what you have suggested because I am active duty military. In order to get that kind of child support, I would have to have sole custody of my kids which would make me a single parent which would cost me my job. Otherwise I would be all for it. The best I can do right now is joint 50/50 custody while I am in home port and she will have temporary custody while I am deployed. I will be paying child support while I am gone. I am trying to avoid it being court ordered but we shall see how this unfolds. 
@Lamaga - That is my plan for right now is to wait her out while having my own attorney for advice and if I need to file, to be able to pull the trigger on a moment' s notice. He will be on retainer. 
@ILWMH - Sorry to hear that your ex was such a POS. I know you are in a better spot now with new H and I hope that is where I will be in a few years. I'm trying to emerge from this with my financial dignity intact. Never again will I be married to someone who doesn't work or doesn't sign a pre-nup absolving me of all support responsibilities (except children of course).


----------



## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

Lon,
I get what you are saying and that is the other side of the debate about spousal support in general. I believe my STBXW received her "marital share" already during the marriage. She lived off of my income during the marriage and was fed/housed/clothed/medically covered, etc. She left the marriage and so those benefits go away as well. In my opinion, which I know is not legal fact right now, she received her share and is no longer entitled to my bounty. 
Whether or not she contributed to my career success is another debate. Other than birthing the children her services were not required after that. My family or hers would have been more than happy to care for the kids while I was gone and they would have been compensated for their efforts. 
Being that I am a good person and don't wish to leave her destitute, I did pay for her initial education and am willing to pay for advanced education to bring her earning potential above minimum wage so she can provide for herself and our children while they are in her care with the help of my child support. 

I do agree with you in that spousal support, like welfare, should not be a permanent thing but a temporary one under certain circumstances and that NEED of SS should be PROVEN rather than an entitlement created by virtue of marriage. SS should only cover the shortfall in income experienced by the lower earning spouse for a defined period until the spouse's income can be raised enough to cover that shortfall on their own. No one should EVER profit of "support" payments.


----------



## papa5280 (Oct 12, 2011)

Married in VA said:


> Papa,
> I have been thinking alot about that approach. I know SS is tax deductable which is a very attractive reason to pay SS. My situation won't allow for what you have suggested because I am active duty military. In order to get that kind of child support, I would have to have sole custody of my kids which would make me a single parent which would cost me my job. Otherwise I would be all for it. The best I can do right now is joint 50/50 custody while I am in home port and she will have temporary custody while I am deployed. I will be paying child support while I am gone. I am trying to avoid it being court ordered but we shall see how this unfolds.


Ah...I was assuming that you had primary custody because of your W's absence. Makes sense though. Overall, though, my take is that there probably is some moral obligation to help her get on her feet. As much as is possible, though, I would push for as short a duration as possible, even if it means paying her a bit more per month. No way I would voluntarily agree to something as open ended as "until retirement from the military".


----------



## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

Papa,
Concur. I will push for something VERY limited in scope. I don't like having to pay it but I do recognize that money for her is not going to fall out of thin air at this point. I don't want the support to be monetary. Maybe I can pay her rent or something like that. The cool part about VA is that ANYTHING can be put into the agreement and once signed by the parties and approved by the judge, it becomes law so to speak. I am thinking short duration SS, help with schooling, and CS when I am gone and maybe some money for her time with the kids since her income is significanly lower than mine.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I agree with you completely, I just didn't want to presume anything about her qualities or lack thereof. Though I think by virtue of marriage alone there is some entitlement created, which is why I think its important for spouses to have a backbone sometimes and not allow or tolerate it (I personally know how that goes, last few years I was tolerating way too much, and so was my ex). I also agree spousal support is not about "profit" its about reparation to earning potential (as twisted as that is for the one who was wronged to be the one to have to make the expenditure).

I would really just wait for your lawyer to advise, because if you claim she lost no earning potential, then why even offer up anything at all, morally you are not helping the cause by giving away stuff to people who did nothing to earn it? But I suspect deep down you realize there were in fact contributions she made which is why you would feel wrong leaving her destitute, and why I think you are doing right by offering to pay enough to get her reasonably established. As to the amount, that's where negotiation comes in, it can't simply be what YOU believe is a reasonable amount (though in reality I suspect you are probably pretty darn close, just a matter of going through all this rigamorole.)


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Judges actually review these agreements to make sure there is "enough" for the woman to live on.

I really wish you didn't have to give her a dime.


----------



## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

@conrad,
I know, my lawyer informed me of this. He said we can agree to everything, sign it and the judge could reject it. He has seen rejections in the areas of child support but never in the areas of spousal support. The agreement must be in the best interest of the child which makes sense.


----------



## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Married in VA said:


> I guess the other thing I don't understand is that since a majority of people I talk to are against spousal support, why do our laws still allow for it? Maybe time to get politically active.


Glad you asked! 

I am asking for SS. My husband cheated on me and refused to leave the marital home. Married almost 29 years. Children are grown. Both of us work, however, he makes twice the income I do. I moved into a smaller home, with a roommate, in order to cover the rent and expenses. He gets to maintain the marital home and cover the expenses with his own money, with money left over for his "fun and games". Somehow this just does not seem right that he could drive MY marriage into the ditch, then "take the spoils" so to speak.

So yes, I want him to pay me a monthly allowance (SS) so that I could relax and not worry about my expenses.

I hope that explanation gives you insight into a spouse who, through no fault of her own, finds herself "on her own"


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Married in VA said:


> Papa,
> Concur. I will push for something VERY limited in scope. I don't like having to pay it but I do recognize that money for her is not going to fall out of thin air at this point. I don't want the support to be monetary. Maybe I can pay her rent or something like that. The cool part about VA is that ANYTHING can be put into the agreement and once signed by the parties and approved by the judge, it becomes law so to speak. I am thinking short duration SS, help with schooling, and CS when I am gone and maybe some money for her time with the kids since her income is significanly lower than mine.


My first marriage lasted over 20 years.

I would have been on the hook for 1850.00/month had I litigated.

I wrote her a single check and was done with it.


----------



## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

@conrad, wow that is a lot and because I know you are going to ask at some point, yes she had a terrible child hood. I know she is either bi-polar or borderline. Two different doctors have diagnosed her with each one. She has more of the borderline tendencies. 

@survivorwife - Sorry you are going through what you are. I was cheated on too and it stinks.


----------



## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

MiVA, just want to give you some props, there's nothing harder than listening to people give advice, and you've dealt with it with grace. Kudos!


----------



## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

Lamaga,
I am a Chief Petty Officer in the Navy. My skin is thick like armor. Very little offends me.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Married in VA said:


> @conrad, wow that is a lot and because I know you are going to ask at some point, yes she had a terrible child hood. I know she is either bi-polar or borderline. Two different doctors have diagnosed her with each one. She has more of the borderline tendencies.
> 
> @survivorwife - Sorry you are going through what you are. I was cheated on too and it stinks.


When you said 8-9 affairs there was little reason to ask

Seriously consider the single check option.

She sounds impulsive.

It will hurt, but it WILL be over.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> Morally, no. Legally, yes.
> 
> You did choose to marry this woman and was married for quite some time.
> 
> ...


I'm sure that the 400,000 cash was his buying her half of the equity of the house. That is not getting money out of him. That's getting her half of the marital assets. He did not have to buy her out. He could have forced the sale of he house and they would have split the equity. In that case they would have each gotten about $400,000.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Married in VA said:


> 4. No custody agreement is in place with our kids but they live with me and she pays no child support.


Since your income is 6 times hers, even if you went to court and got 100% custody she most likely does not make enough to have to pay you any child support. How many hours a week does she see the children?



Married in VA said:


> She is convinced that she is "entitled" to more SS and I feel that is not the case.


Legally she is entitled to more spousal support. She is also probably entitled to 50% of your community assets and a portion of your retirement.



Married in VA said:


> In any event, what are your opinions?


If she is smart she will get an attorney. So your goal should be go give her enough to keep her from getting an attorney. What is the magic number? Only she can tell you that.

What would be the normal amount and of support and the length of support that she would get based on state guidelines?

The formula I found is
(YourIncome*.30) – (Her income *.58) = support

So let’s say that you earn $100,000 (using round numbes) and she earns $18,000 annually

(100,000 * .30) – (18,000 * .58)
= 30,000 – 10,400
= $19,560 annually in ss
So $19,560/12 = $1630 monthly.

So if she drags you into court she will get about $1630 a month in support, 50% of the community assets and 50% of your retirement.

Since you were married for 14 years, she could very likely get rehabilitative ss for 7 years, half the length of the marriage.


Virginia Divorce Source: Virginia Spousal Support Issues

Be very careful about coming up with an agreement that is way out of line with the state guidelines. A judge and throw out your agreement when they review it before final signature. And at that point you are the mercy of the judge who will most likely go by the state guidelines.


Your offer of $750 a month and no retirement is so out of what is her legal rights that it’s highly likely that she will end up with an attorney. And the court will very likely order you to pay her attorney fees.

One out you have is if she is living with someone else. Is she living with another man right now?

“Theoretically, our Courts did not have authority to cut off "periodic" spousal support awards at any time in the future, absent death of either party, or re-marriage of the recipient, or habitual cohabitation for a year or more in a "relationship analogous to marriage"


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Married in VA said:


> Yeah, I tried that approach. I offered 750$/month which when combined with what she makes at her CURRENT job is more than enough for an appartment for her and the kids to visit. She has gone into typical Navy wife mode. You know the kind when the marriage breaks down and everything is now an "entitlement". She feels that since I am in the military she is "entitled" to high spousal support for life. She is being advised by other ex-Navy wives whose husbands signed agreements making them into ATMs. Not me. I wish Virginia had a law on the books preventing DV victims from having to pay SS to their abusers. I thought it was always illegal to profit from your crime.


Tell us some about this domestic violence. What happened? Is this something new for her to do?

Keep in mind that if a man abuses his wife, he still does not owe her any more support. SS is not meant to be punative in either direction.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

If it helps, my WW was the cheater and as a SAHM had NO income, and I make very good money. We're splitting through mediation, and regardless of the fact that HER infidelity is leading to the split, I will be paying her spousal support + child support that when combined is more than half my take-home pay. Her SS portion will be well above the $2500/month you said you'd leave the country over paying. I can only take solitude in feeling it will best provide for my child to have her set up well.... :-(


----------



## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

@elegirl, good advice, I'll try to find the magic number. Everyone has their price. That is where I will concentrate my efforts. Being military, she can only get 35% of retirement if I retire, and even then it's only 35% of my non VA portion of the retirement which will be a paltry sum. 

@2Xloser,
You are a better man than I. I would probably look straight at that judge and tell him/her that they could put me in jail now on contempt as there is no way in hell I would pay that much SS. CS I understand, but SS for a cheating spouse, no way!

In general, there needs to be a rigourous public debate on this topic. Times have changed and we no longer live in the "Leave it to Beaver" generation. I know I will be talking to my state legislators about this issue. Creating an "entitlement" to support a grown adult post marriage is preposterous under most circumstances. Don't get me wrong, there is a place for SS in limitied circumstances and the legislation that I will propose to my state congressmen will contain those circumstances.


----------



## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

@elegirl, for the DV, she kicked me, slapped me, and destroyed property in front of the children. I did not fight back as I am a foot taller and 80 Lbs heavier than her and I would have been arrested. My daughters told the police what happened and she was arrested and given a 72 hour restraining order each time. She was convicted in court of these charges and is on probation for two years and will have to do some mandatory IC. She faces charges next Thursday of contributing to the delinquency of a minor for allowing one of her many boyfriends to give our daughter pot and she watched as she smoked it and didn't make any effort to stop him or her. The boyfriend is also facing the charges as well. She will be convicted as there was a witness (neighbor).


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Married in VA said:


> @elegirl, for the DV, she kicked me, slapped me, and destroyed property in front of the children. I did not fight back as I am a foot taller and 80 Lbs heavier than her and I would have been arrested. My daughters told the police what happened and she was arrested and given a 72 hour restraining order each time. She was convicted in court of these charges and is on probation for two years and will have to do some mandatory IC. She faces charges next Thursday of contributing to the delinquency of a minor for allowing one of her many boyfriends to give our daughter pot and she watched as she smoked it and didn't make any effort to stop him or her. The boyfriend is also facing the charges as well. She will be convicted as there was a witness (neighbor).


Dislike...

The hell with the b*tch!

(Somehow, that doesn't seem quite strong enough)


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Married in VA said:


> @elegirl, good advice, I'll try to find the magic number. Everyone has their price. That is where I will concentrate my efforts. Being military, she can only get 35% of retirement if I retire, and even then it's only 35% of my non VA portion of the retirement which will be a paltry sum.
> 
> @2Xloser,
> You are a better man than I. I would probably look straight at that judge and tell him/her that they could put me in jail now on contempt as there is no way in hell I would pay that much SS. CS I understand, but SS for a cheating spouse, no way!
> ...


MinVa,

In my divorce, I remember the day I opened the investment account in the presence of my ex. Yes, the same investment account I'd nursed since the original investment back in the days I was still with Edward Jones. My account survived the tech bubble and had roughly $225k in it that day.

I left it open for her and walked away.

It hurt.

But, I was done with her - forever.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Married in VA said:


> @elegirl, for the DV, she kicked me, slapped me, and destroyed property in front of the children. I did not fight back as I am a foot taller and 80 Lbs heavier than her and I would have been arrested. My daughters told the police what happened and she was arrested and given a 72 hour restraining order each time. She was convicted in court of these charges and is on probation for two years and will have to do some mandatory IC. She faces charges next Thursday of contributing to the delinquency of a minor for allowing one of her many boyfriends to give our daughter pot and she watched as she smoked it and didn't make any effort to stop him or her. The boyfriend is also facing the charges as well. She will be convicted as there was a witness (neighbor).


Wow, she is out of control.

I guess some kind of arguement led up to her DV... it's not an excuse of course. She's responsible for her own bad behavior. Good for your daughters for siding on the side of right.

How did you find out about her giving your daughter pot?


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Wow, she is out of control.
> 
> I guess some kind of arguement led up to her DV... it's not an excuse of course. She's responsible for her own bad behavior. Good for your daughters for siding on the side of right.
> 
> How did you find out about her giving your daughter pot?


The marijuana thing may prove her unfit - which she clearly is.

What does the attorney say about this?


----------



## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Keep in mind the possibility of them getting remarried, do monthly payments may be the better option for some rather then large sum of cash.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

keko said:


> Keep in mind the possibility of them getting remarried, do monthly payments may be the better option for some rather then large sum of cash.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In VA, if she lives with a guy for a year the payments can be stopped. So this is a real way to reduce the obligation.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

miVA,

Who is going to take care of your children when you are deployed?


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

keko said:


> Keep in mind the possibility of them getting remarried, do monthly payments may be the better option for some rather then large sum of cash.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I knew my ex wouldn't.


----------



## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Conrad said:


> I knew my ex wouldn't.


Even if you covered the wedding cost's?


----------



## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

@elegirl - Most likely family will take care of the children while I am deployed. The DV was the result of arguments about her seeing/texting/screwing other men. She would literally text the other men (multiple) right in front of me and then guard her phone when I wanted to read the texts. Fortunately case law in VA will allow for no SS if she is cohabitating at the time of the hearing. PI is already hired and we are keeping track of how many nights she spends at OMs house. It may be completely irrelevant if she is convicted next week as she will face jail for that charge plus the two she is on probation for. Max sentence is 3 years but will most likely get 6-8 months. 

@conrad - That is alot of money to give up but I am sure you did what you needed to do and though was right under the circumstances. She is unfit but that may work against me. If family cannot care for my children, I will be forced out of the military as I will be a single parent. Oddly enough if she is sentenced to prison for greater than a year, I can D and she gets nothing.


----------



## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

@elegirl - I found out about the pot because our neighbor witnessed them outside on the back patio smoking it. We lived in a townhouse and they were being loud from getting high. This woke the neighbor and she saw them through the window. She told her dad who called me. I confronted my daughter with a home drug test kit and she confessed. We went to the police and she gave a statement as did the witness. The police did an investigation and warrants were issued. She and the boyfriend were arrested and charged. They were both on the local news too pictures and all, kind of weird.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Married in VA said:


> @elegirl - Most likely family will take care of the children while I am deployed. The DV was the result of arguments about her seeing/texting/screwing other men. She would literally text the other men (multiple) right in front of me and then guard her phone when I wanted to read the texts. Fortunately case law in VA will allow for no SS if she is cohabitating at the time of the hearing. PI is already hired and we are keeping track of how many nights she spends at OMs house. It may be completely irrelevant if she is convicted next week as she will face jail for that charge plus the two she is on probation for. Max sentence is 3 years but will most likely get 6-8 months.
> 
> @conrad - That is alot of money to give up but I am sure you did what you needed to do and though was right under the circumstances. She is unfit but that may work against me. If family cannot care for my children, I will be forced out of the military as I will be a single parent. Oddly enough if she is sentenced to prison for greater than a year, I can D and she gets nothing.


I will light candles for her conviction.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Married in VA said:


> @elegirl - I found out about the pot because our neighbor witnessed them outside on the back patio smoking it. We lived in a townhouse and they were being loud from getting high. This woke the neighbor and she saw them through the window. She told her dad who called me. I confronted my daughter with a home drug test kit and she confessed. We went to the police and she gave a statement as did the witness. The police did an investigation and warrants were issued. She and the boyfriend were arrested and charged. They were both on the local news too pictures and all, kind of weird.


What a stupid woman (sorry for name calling).


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

keko said:


> Even if you covered the wedding cost's?


There would still have to be a groom.


----------



## DaKarmaTrain! (May 17, 2012)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> When I left my husband I did not ask for spousal support. I was the only one with a lawyer and I only asked for 200 a month for child support. I was making more money then my ex with 2 minimum wage jobs. He worked part time working minimum wage. He was too busy sleeping with other women and racking up the credit cards. He even took a credit card in my name a month after I left him. He had stolen my checkbook and drivers license out of my car. I lived in an area where it was safe from theft. Or so I thought.
> 
> I tried so hard to get away from my ex. He was using illegal drugs, abusive, unfaithful and extremely controlling. His behavior is so much worse today then 18 years ago. I was only with him 2 years total. We had one child together and I only married him due to being pregnant and thinking I was doing the right thing. Boy was I wrong.
> 
> ...


Horrible story ImInLove...nice to see it worked out in the end, and it seems the lil Karma Fairy blessed your ex mightily


----------



## DaKarmaTrain! (May 17, 2012)

Married in VA said:


> @elegirl - I found out about the pot because our neighbor witnessed them outside on the back patio smoking it. We lived in a townhouse and they were being loud from getting high. This woke the neighbor and she saw them through the window. She told her dad who called me. I confronted my daughter with a home drug test kit and she confessed. We went to the police and she gave a statement as did the witness. The police did an investigation and warrants were issued. She and the boyfriend were arrested and charged. They were both on the local news too pictures and all, kind of weird.


Hi Married, just...wow.

My situation is similiar, but a key difference is I thankfully (in this situation) am poor as a church mouse. I have been voluntarily paying SS, but we had no assets (really no debts either, so it was rather simple in some respects).

In Virginia do they not have Legal Aid (or something similiar)? Just trying to figure out why she can't get a lawyer...


----------



## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

Karma,
The do have legal aid in VA but they will not do a contested divorce. The way divorce works here is kind of different from other states. We are a hybrid of fault/no fault if you will. If you want to go the no fault route, you have to live separate and apart for a year if children are involved and are expected to settle your issues on your own outside of court. Yes, you can get court orders through Juvenile and Domestic relations for things like custody, child, and spousal support. My STBXW doesn't want to go for custody because that would make her responsible for the kids. She is enjoying the single life right now with only seeing the children on her terms when she wants. If she files there for spousal support then I will file a contested divorce to move it into a higher court and thus, the expensive option. You DO NOT try to represent yourself here in VA in a divorce proceeding when your spouse has an attorney. You will get eaten alive. 

For the criminal proceedings she had a public defender to represent her there. 

I wish I was in your situation and had little assets. That would make things a lot easier. There are two houses that need to be dealt with, 1 of which is in foreclosure. There is military retirement (maybe) that needs to be spared, there is spousal support, etc. I am in the military and by nature a fighter. I will argue for the best deal possible for myself and not settle for anything less.


----------



## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

I shouldn't have read this thread, makes me seethe
she has a job and you pay child support and she expects you to support her too?

I've never taken a penny off a man (in child support or anything else) and never will - damn, perhaps I'm the idiot here

but where's her damn pride?

I suppose I can understand it if someone has been a SAHM for years and genuinely has no means of supporting themselves, but I would still hate to be dependent on someone else


----------



## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

Dolly,
She does have a job and I have the kids full time and she just visits when it's convenient for her. She pays me no child support and I pay all of the kid's expenses, including day care. Yes, she still expects spousal support in the 4 digit range each month. She rang me the other day saying it was the first and asking if I would pay her some support. I said no. 

The funny thing is I give her money when she visits with the children so the can eat, do things with mom, etc. (Child support?). If she would spend more time with HER OWN CHILDREN she would probably make out better. Weird.


----------



## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

ugh women like her make me sick! she should be f*cking ashamed of herself

how could any judge in their right mind award her a penny when you have the kids full time anyway? I just don't get it


----------



## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

Thankfully this is not in court yet. My attorney pretty much says fat chance for her to get much of anything unless we share custody. If we do that, then I will owe child support because I make a lot more than she does.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Dollystanford said:


> I shouldn't have read this thread, makes me seethe
> she has a job and you pay child support and she expects you to support her too?
> 
> I've never taken a penny off a man (in child support or anything else) and never will - damn, perhaps I'm the idiot here
> ...


Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but if you've been living off someone else's wages for 14 years or so, the idea of banging 8-9 additional men over the past 18 months seems excessive - especially when you want the guy you left to pay for it.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but if you've been living off someone else's wages for 14 years or so, the idea of banging 8-9 additional men over the past 18 months seems excessive - especially when you want the guy you left to pay for it.


Ya think!? :scratchhead:


----------

