# When do you say 'no more'?



## Tomlongisland (Feb 4, 2013)

Need some advice.

Wife and i have been married for over 30 years. There have always been stresses caused by finances and marriage. For a while the financial stress was unbearable. My wife didn't work during this time and I lived from paycheck to paycheck. Work was horrible and I got absolue no empathy from wife.I felt like I was having a breakdown. this was about 4 years ago. I don't drink or take drugs but needed an escape. The escape was sex. I had a few meaningless affairs, meaning no emoton. I just needed to be with someone that wasn't going to put any pressure on me. I know it was terribly wrong. I eventually told wife about it. She decided to try to work things out. I went into therapy and tried to understand my feelings and why I did what I did. It helped alot. This past fall I had a highschool reunion. My wife was somewhat parnoid that I was going to see old girlfriends. Far from the truth. I went to a game with the guys in the afternoon and my wife joined us for dinner that evening. 

A few weeks later she tracked down an old male friend she knew in college. She started an email correspondance. She told me about it but I didn't think it was that frequent. About two weeks later she said she was going to meet a girl friend for dinner. I knew in my gut she was meeting him but I didn't want to call her a liar without proof. Two months later I found emails. Proof she had met him and that they were chatting and emailing on the internet every night. Nothing was said about sex but they were very 'lovey dovey'. I confronted my wife and she said yes she met him but it was with the girlfriend she had dinner with, they were not alone. I knew she was lying. Eventuyally, with much verbal pushing she admitted that she saw him alone. I told her she had to end it. She said it wasn't a physical relationship and it was dying anyway so she agreed. We sent him a joint email that said I felt the relationship was inapproriate for married people and me and my wife agreed it would end. Over this past month I found his telephone number in my wife's dresser draw. She said it was old and forgot it was there and kept it in case things didn't work out with us. I was stunned since she had told me she wouldn't see him again regardless of how things turned out in our marriage because she really didn't like him. We agreed in total transparency but I found her sneaking on the internet and lying about it. She has been deleting voice mails and email history. She swears it is over but I keep on finding these things every few days. She says she wants to make it work but I keep on finding things every few days. I have told her the only way for the marriage to work is for her to change her behavior and through the change in behavior demonstratet that she is committed to the marriage. We have always had great sex so that is not the problem. In fact it is hard to refrain at this time but I have because I told her I can't have sex with her if she isn't committed to the marriage. We are going to counseling but so far she has found little value in it. Tell me what you think? This has been going on for 5 months with major arguements about her lying every 3 or 4 nights.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

If she will not give up OM and continues to lie and deceive you, then she does not value you or your marriage.

She is choosing OM over you.

She does not think you will divorce her so she thinks she can continue with OM.

It is difficult to say, but you have to do something that will shock her back to reality if you want to save your marriage.

In some States you can download a copy of divorce paper on-line. Check and see if you can do that. Present them to her and tell her that you have had enough of her lying.

Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Sounds like she has detached and is justifying her fling.

Revenge affair? Exit affair?

I am sure your cheating had *everything* to do with it.

This is a tough deal. No moral high-ground for you to work from.

Why do you want to stay married? I don't really need an answer, but it sounds like both of you would do better if you divorced.

Good luck! This forum is a great place to start!


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Tom,

As you figured out, she's lying to you. She's been pursuing an affair possibly as a way to get back at you for your affairs

This affair of hers has probably gone underground.

It doesn't sound like the two of you adequately addressed your infidelity back when it happened. 

I'm not realy sure what to tell you. It's painfully obvious that the two of you can't trust each other and I believe this doesn't bode well for your marriage


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## LostAndContent (Feb 22, 2013)

Tomlongisland said:


> Need some advice.
> 
> Wife and i have been married for over 30 years. There have always been stresses caused by finances and marriage. For a while the financial stress was unbearable. My wife didn't work during this time and I lived from paycheck to paycheck. Work was horrible and I got absolue no empathy from wife.I felt like I was having a breakdown. this was about 4 years ago. I don't drink or take drugs but needed an escape. The escape was sex. I had a few meaningless affairs, meaning no emoton. I just needed to be with someone that wasn't going to put any pressure on me. I know it was terribly wrong. I eventually told wife about it. She decided to try to work things out. I went into therapy and tried to understand my feelings and why I did what I did. It helped alot. This past fall I had a highschool reunion. My wife was somewhat parnoid that I was going to see old girlfriends. Far from the truth. I went to a game with the guys in the afternoon and my wife joined us for dinner that evening.
> 
> A few weeks later she tracked down an old male friend she knew in college. She started an email correspondance. She told me about it but I didn't think it was that frequent. About two weeks later she said she was going to meet a girl friend for dinner. I knew in my gut she was meeting him but I didn't want to call her a liar without proof. Two months later I found emails. Proof she had met him and that they were chatting and emailing on the internet every night. Nothing was said about sex but they were very 'lovey dovey'. I confronted my wife and she said yes she met him but it was with the girlfriend she had dinner with, they were not alone. I knew she was lying. Eventuyally, with much verbal pushing she admitted that she saw him alone. I told her she had to end it. She said it wasn't a physical relationship and it was dying anyway so she agreed. We sent him a joint email that said I felt the relationship was inapproriate for married people and me and my wife agreed it would end. Over this past month I found his telephone number in my wife's dresser draw. She said it was old and forgot it was there and kept it in case things didn't work out with us. I was stunned since she had told me she wouldn't see him again regardless of how things turned out in our marriage because she really didn't like him. We agreed in total transparency but I found her sneaking on the internet and lying about it. She has been deleting voice mails and email history. She swears it is over but I keep on finding these things every few days. She says she wants to make it work but I keep on finding things every few days. I have told her the only way for the marriage to work is for her to change her behavior and through the change in behavior demonstratet that she is committed to the marriage. We have always had great sex so that is not the problem. In fact it is hard to refrain at this time but I have because I told her I can't have sex with her if she isn't committed to the marriage. We are going to counseling but so far she has found little value in it. Tell me what you think? This has been going on for 5 months with major arguements about her lying every 3 or 4 nights.


I'm sorry you're here. 

The next time you find evidence of contact, kick her out. She obviously doesn't think you're serious about leaving her. As long as she thinks you'll rugsweep the affair for her, she won't change her behavior. Unless she sees concrete evidence that she is going to lose you, she won't wake up from the fog.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

When she learned you cheated, the marriage as she knew it was over. Something was broken and it's hard to mend. 

"She said it was old and forgot it was there and kept it in case things didn't work out with us."

Hell, at least she was honest with you.

Even though she's having the EA (possibly PA), there's still a burden on you because of your past indiscretions. 

If you love her, prove it to her.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> When she learned you cheated, the marriage as she knew it was over. Something was broken and it's hard to mend.
> 
> "She said it was old and forgot it was there and kept it in case things didn't work out with us."
> 
> ...


This post is horrible as advice in the present situation.
Fo and read the newbies thread. Act decively. Kill this affair NOW. EAs are very hard to crack.
Red more threads.
Start serious snooping, think hard of the boundaires, lay the law.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Tomlongisland said:


> She said it was old and forgot it was there and kept it *in case things didn't work out with us*.


Well I guess there's your answer to the question on top of the page.


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## ubercoolpanda (Sep 11, 2012)

Did she completely forgive you for your affair? Did she move past it or always hold it against you? 

Maybe she feels she is entitled to cheat too, and that's why she doesn't see it as a big deal by leaving OMs personal details lying around. 

Sit her down and ask her what she truly wants from this marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

Tomlongisland said:


> Need some advice.
> 
> Wife and i have been married for over 30 years. There have always been stresses caused by finances and marriage. For a while the financial stress was unbearable. My wife didn't work during this time and I lived from paycheck to paycheck. Work was horrible and I got absolue no empathy from wife.I felt like I was having a breakdown. this was about 4 years ago. I don't drink or take drugs but needed an escape. The escape was sex. I had a few meaningless affairs, meaning no emoton. I just needed to be with someone that wasn't going to put any pressure on me. I know it was terribly wrong. I eventually told wife about it. She decided to try to work things out. I went into therapy and tried to understand my feelings and why I did what I did. It helped alot. This past fall I had a highschool reunion. My wife was somewhat parnoid that I was going to see old girlfriends. Far from the truth. I went to a game with the guys in the afternoon and my wife joined us for dinner that evening.
> 
> A few weeks later she tracked down an old male friend she knew in college. She started an email correspondance. She told me about it but I didn't think it was that frequent. About two weeks later she said she was going to meet a girl friend for dinner. I knew in my gut she was meeting him but I didn't want to call her a liar without proof. Two months later I found emails. Proof she had met him and that they were chatting and emailing on the internet every night. Nothing was said about sex but they were very 'lovey dovey'. I confronted my wife and she said yes she met him but it was with the girlfriend she had dinner with, they were not alone. I knew she was lying. Eventuyally, with much verbal pushing she admitted that she saw him alone. I told her she had to end it. She said it wasn't a physical relationship and it was dying anyway so she agreed. We sent him a joint email that said I felt the relationship was inapproriate for married people and me and my wife agreed it would end. Over this past month I found his telephone number in my wife's dresser draw. She said it was old and forgot it was there and kept it in case things didn't work out with us. I was stunned since she had told me she wouldn't see him again regardless of how things turned out in our marriage because she really didn't like him. We agreed in total transparency but I found her sneaking on the internet and lying about it. She has been deleting voice mails and email history. She swears it is over but I keep on finding these things every few days. She says she wants to make it work but I keep on finding things every few days. I have told her the only way for the marriage to work is for her to change her behavior and through the change in behavior demonstratet that she is committed to the marriage. We have always had great sex so that is not the problem. In fact it is hard to refrain at this time but I have because I told her I can't have sex with her if she isn't committed to the marriage. We are going to counseling but so far she has found little value in it. Tell me what you think? This has been going on for 5 months with major arguements about her lying every 3 or 4 nights.


Just sounds to me like your wife decided that what was good for the gander is good for the goose. Incidentally, did you tell your wife that these affairs were meaningless? If so, that's really about the worst thing that you could've said; it's bad enough that you demeaned yourself and broke your vows, but to admit to her that you did so for no other reason than to get your d!ck wet is just sand in the eyes after the slap in the face. It's no wonder that she doesn't place any value in your marriage in more. That said, she had no right to step outside the marriage herself.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Well, I always sort of default now to telling my wife how I cope with things. I tell her my way of dealing with stuff.

Since you've been a wayward, drag it back up. Start talking about what you really learned and how you value your marriage. Tell her about how you look back on it now and how you would handle it now that you are wiser and learned. Basically talk to her as a man who made that mistake and has had to deal with that regret of your life. And let her choose what to do with all that. 

You don't try and control their actions. You influence their thoughts and plant seeds so they might predict how it will turn out or what to expect that she probably hasn't considered. As she hasn't had that experience from the wayward side, she may not know or you haven't really made it look that bad.

You could also ask her to think about how she felt when she was discovering your infidelity. Does she really have any reason that you won't react with that same rollercoaster of emotions? Is she really enjoying seeing you like that?

Anyway... food for thought.


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## A++ (May 21, 2012)

Tomlongisland said:


> This has been going on for 5 months with major arguements about her lying every 3 or 4 nights.


If there is no consequences for her actions then she has no reason to stop disrespecting you..


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## fishfast41 (Dec 12, 2010)

Seems to me that since you cheated, she figures she can too. Doesn't make it right , however. I think you both need to go somewhere with absolutely NO distractions for like a couple days and spend all that time discussing what you both want and expect from a marriage.Then make a decision as to what you both agree to do. Obviously,if you decide to remain married,you must not cheat again, and she must stop cheating now. Since you both are guilty here, it seems to me that mutual,SINCERE, disclosure of ALL affairs,and mutual,SINCERE apologies are the only chance of fixing this mess.


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## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

It bothers me a lot that you "found" reasons to have an affair, I too also wonder if your wife is having an EA because she has never healed from you demeaning your marriage vows like that. Saying that, however she would also be handling it the wrong way now and is "now" choosing to demean the marriage. It has to be addressed!


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