# Am I at fault or is she BSing?



## Houstondad (Jul 6, 2011)

If a guy asks you out for the following Saturday and you say yes, is it proper dating etiquette for him to touch base with you the day before? And if he doesn't , should you the woman contact him to see if it's still on? Or is that not even necessary?
I've been in a casual relationship over the last 2 months with this girl from my gym. When we go out we have a great time and we kiss and hold hands. But I'm starting to have my doubts about her.
My most recent invite to her was a week ago and we made plans to meet in the afternoon for today. The only thing I didn't tell her at the time was the exact time I would pick her up. We'd see each other during the week and say hi. I'd smile and make short talk. But nothing was mentioned during the week about our date.
I texted her this morning the meetup time. She calls me a while later saying she was sorry but she thought I didn't want to go out anymore. WTF?!?
I told her we could meetup later today if she would like, but she says she already made plans. I was shocked and pissed. And this wasn't the first date that I felt hung up to dry. The dates have been 50/50 regarding cancellation or it was on.
I wonder if I should have called her sooner like the day before? Or is she totally blaming this on me when it's really BS? Is she making a lame excuse? I'm especially curious to hear what the ladies perspective is on this. 
Thank you!


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Houstondad said:


> If a guy asks you out for the following Saturday and you say yes, is it proper dating etiquette for him to touch base with you the day before? And if he doesn't , should you the woman contact him to see if it's still on? Or is that not even necessary?
> I've been in a casual relationship over the last 2 months with this girl from my gym. When we go out we have a great time and we kiss and hold hands. But I'm starting to have my doubts about her.
> My most recent invite to her was a week ago and we made plans to meet in the afternoon for today. The only thing I didn't tell her at the time was the exact time I would pick her up. We'd see each other during the week and say hi. I'd smile and make short talk. But nothing was mentioned during the week about our date.
> I texted her this morning the meetup time. She calls me a while later saying she was sorry but she thought I didn't want to go out anymore. WTF?!?
> ...


I am a bit surprised it never got mentioned again in your little chats. I certainly would have said something like see you Saturday or suggested a time prior to the day of. Perhaps this is her way of communicating that she sees your relationship as very casual and convenient, as opposed to something to look forward to.

You mention previous cancellations. Similar circumstances or what?


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

If I was really into a guy, I wouldn't make other plans for the day we had decided to go out, even if he hadn't confirmed the date. However, I would expect him to at least confirm the time the day before, I think that's just polite. If he regularly left me hanging as to whether or not the date was confirmed until that day, I would lose interest, that's just me, I have high expectations. If he's interested, he needs to be very active in that interest. Blasé about a date will not engender a great deal of interest imo. You both sound like you're acting, if not possibly feeling, very relaxed and blasé about the whole idea of a possible relationship with each other.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

breeze said:


> If I was really into a guy, I wouldn't make other plans for the day we had decided to go out, even if he hadn't confirmed the date. However, I would expect him to at least confirm the time the day before, I think that's just polite. If he regularly left me hanging as to whether or not the date was confirmed until that day, I would lose interest, that's just me, I have high expectations. If he's interested, he needs to be very active in that interest. Blasé about a date will not engender a great deal of interest imo. You both sound like you're acting, if not possibly feeling, very relaxed and blasé about the whole idea of a possible relationship with each other.


I totally agree. I'm surprised that you didn't confirm the date prior to the actual day of the date especially since you saw her in person a couple of times. She probably thought that you lost interest.


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## browneyes74 (Sep 1, 2013)

I think you two are probably a bad fit communication wise.. And neither of you seem really interested to be honest.. 

You saw each other a few times this week and never said, "see you this weekend?" Yeah, I'd think that you weren't interested as well, to be honest.. 

Or, she could be playing the "Rules" that if you are truly interested, you would be pursuing.. Which, while I think there is something to that idea, I think the Rules are ridiculous.. 

BUT, I think if you truly were excited to see her, it would have been mentioned before.. And if she were truly interested in you, she would have probably asked before moving on.. 

I say.. Move on.. She's obviously not floating your boat or vice versa..


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Houstondad said:


> If a guy asks you out for the following Saturday and you say yes, is it proper dating etiquette for him to touch base with you the day before? And if he doesn't , should you the woman contact him to see if it's still on? Or is that not even necessary?
> I've been in a casual relationship over the last 2 months with this girl from my gym. When we go out we have a great time and we kiss and hold hands. But I'm starting to have my doubts about her.
> My most recent invite to her was a week ago and we made plans to meet in the afternoon for today. The only thing I didn't tell her at the time was the exact time I would pick her up. We'd see each other during the week and say hi. I'd smile and make short talk. But nothing was mentioned during the week about our date.
> I texted her this morning the meetup time. She calls me a while later saying she was sorry but she thought I didn't want to go out anymore. WTF?!?
> ...


Houstondad, 
two months is enough time for her to know if you mean what you say or not. If this were a first date or even first couple of dates then it could be chalked up her game or her jaded past with guys or a number of things. But no if you've been consistent for two months then it's not that. It's either disrespect to you or it's her personal baggage that will haunt you.

Put this girl in the booty call category if you have one of those. If not then look elsewhere.


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## Houstondad (Jul 6, 2011)

Actually, I am interested in her.
I'm struggling to get some balance in the dating world and that includes my nice guy issues. I've come across as needy in the past when it comes to contacting a girl. So with her, I'm trying to not call/contact her too much. Say what you want, but I've found more success with girls when guys don't show too much interest in the dating stages.
Nearly all the dates with her have had a confirmation in the morning of that day/date. However, my last one (before this one) I confirmed the night before and she responded that she had to cancel for not feeling well. The two times I contacted the night before(the dates were not back to back), something came up with not feeling well. Yesterday was Valentine's Day and her friend told me she was down in the dumps that day/eve (I'm assuming memories from her ex). So I felt it was best to wait till morning when she would possibly be feeling better. I was Just trying to be strategic. And yes, it sounds silly and unnecessary.

AND what's so hard for checking in with me if it's still a go? Is there a "RULE" for women not to check on that one? Pffft!

Just because I don't call the night before shouldn't mean it's cancelled. If I need to cancel, I'll call a woman and tell her straight up. This is why I'm having a hard time buying much of what is said on here. Sure, it's polite and I probably should do it anyways and not be afraid of the response. But should not confirming mean a definitive no interest?
And yes, there's a damn good chance she's GAMING me. Maybe until something better comes along, which may have happened today. 
She's hot and cold. 
It's felt like a back and forth game this last month or so. I show interest, we hang out, make out, then she seems aloof and/or cancels the next eventual date. Then I distance myself and she starts to show lots of interest back and I eventually cave and respond by asking her out.Why? I'd like to think she's still interested in me, but I think she would have left her options open and said yes when I still tried to move the date to later today.

The tough part is that I want to tell her how I really feel about her. But I'm butt-hurt/ ego-hurt right now and feel that the timing of it would be bad and show too much weakness/neediness from my part.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I think you dropped the ball. You had tentative plans a week away. By the day before, the time should have been set, or at least the date confirmed even if the time is fluid. Sure, she could have checked with you, but you were the one who asked, so the responsibility is yours. If I'd been her, I'd have assumed you'd either forgotten or not been that serious, and made other plans.

Treat her like an option, and she'll treat you the same.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You are really interested. You made a date a week in advance and never mentioned it again? Dude, show some enthusiasim. By the middle of he week you should have had a plan and let her know what was up. You don't treat a lady like that. Women prepare. What you did was insulting and flip.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Houstondad said:


> Nearly all the dates with her have had a confirmation in the morning of that day/date. However, my last one (before this one) *I confirmed the night before and she responded that she had to cancel for not feeling well*. *The two times I contacted the night before*(the dates were not back to back), *something came up with not feeling well*. *She's a game-player! One time: yep, two times: unlikely, three times: I call BS!* Yesterday was Valentine's Day and her friend told me she was down in the dumps...I felt it was best to wait till morning when she would possibly be feeling better. I was Just trying to be strategic. And yes, it sounds silly and unnecessary. *Because it IS! I see this one of two ways, EITHER
> 
> she's interested in you CONDITIONAL upon you being so popular that you can't call her 'till the last minute (so she feels 'special') OR
> she's biding her time and waiting until the last possible minute in case she gets a 'better offer' (her opinion, not mine).
> ...


Let me ask you to be really honest and tell us whether you've been to IC since you and your ex-wife split up? Have you read any of the books recommended on TAM? How many? Which ones? What (if anything) did you feel you got out of them?

It just seems like you went from the frying pan into the fire! I don't think YOU took the time to heal YOUR wounds and to fix YOUR dysfunctionality before you started dating again. And, if I remember correctly, you have custody of your two minor children. So, please, spend the next six months working on YOU. Fixing YOU. Healing YOU. So you can have productive healthy relationships that work for you and your kids! Don't settle for run-of-the-mill, same-story-different-woman relationships! You and your kids DESERVE healthy! You've all been through the wringer!

Wishing a HEALTHY HAPPY *you* in 2014, and joy for your children!

~SGW


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Houstondad said:


> If a guy asks you out for the following Saturday and you say yes, is it proper dating etiquette for him to touch base with you the day before? And if he doesn't , should you the woman contact him to see if it's still on? Or is that not even necessary?
> I've been in a casual relationship over the last 2 months with this girl from my gym. When we go out we have a great time and we kiss and hold hands. But I'm starting to have my doubts about her.
> My most recent invite to her was a week ago and we made plans to meet in the afternoon for today. The only thing I didn't tell her at the time was the exact time I would pick her up. We'd see each other during the week and say hi. I'd smile and make short talk. But nothing was mentioned during the week about our date.
> I texted her this morning the meetup time. She calls me a while later saying she was sorry but she thought I didn't want to go out anymore. WTF?!?
> ...


Nope. You shouldn't have done anything differently except had other plans and other light dates lined up. This changes the picture till where she's worried about what you are doing.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

You're playing games. Being into her but trying not to show it. It's all a waste of time. I answered that I wouldn't do what she did, but I don't play games, and I certainly don't date guys who do. I have seen guys playing these games with my SIL and they come across as a'holes. Either she's really not that into you, or she's not going to show her cards because so many guys do this crap, and the girls don't want to invest too much into a guy who is probably just in it for the sex.

I can't help but compare guys to my own DH. When he was interested, he was absolutely 100% interested. There were no games from either of us. 

If you're that interested, tell her, ask her if she wants to continue dating and if so, could she stop blowing you off, because the next time you won't bother asking her out again. Cut the crap, try honesty.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

She's not that into you. And you continuing to be interested in her even when she's treating you this way isn't helping your cause.

C


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

If a man asked me out on a date in a week's time, and then never called to confirm the time or place, I'd assume that it was cancelled too.

Am I missing something?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

breeze said:


> You're playing games. Being into her but trying not to show it. It's all a waste of time. I answered that I wouldn't do what she did, but I don't play games, and I certainly don't date guys who do. I have seen guys playing these games with my SIL and they come across as a'holes. Either she's really not that into you, or she's not going to show her cards because so many guys do this crap, and the girls don't want to invest too much into a guy who is probably just in it for the sex.
> 
> I can't help but compare guys to my own DH. When he was interested, he was absolutely 100% interested. There were no games from either of us.
> 
> If you're that interested, tell her, ask her if she wants to continue dating and if so, could she stop blowing you off, because the next time you won't bother asking her out again. Cut the crap, try honesty.


Totally agree with this.

The game playing stuff is silly. My guess is that the not so confident women or low self esteem ones respond to this sort of game playing but as a confident woman I would not be playing.


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## EntirelyDifferent (Nov 30, 2012)

I think the situation could have been handled better by both of you.

Calling/texting once in a week's time is not needy, it's confirming a date. I like to know for sure what's going on ahead of time, not the day of. 
If I hadn't heard from you and you had not brought it up by mid-week, I too would have assumed you no longer wanted to meet up. I don't think there's any 'rules' about asking the guy, because I would have if it was important to me, but that's the key. She didn't ask, so my take is that it's reasonable to think that it wasn't something she was that into.


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## Houstondad (Jul 6, 2011)

I've decided to text her to tell her we need to talk. There's waaaay too much assumptions on my part and possibly her as well. My aloofness with her has much to do with my response to her actions. First, let me explain she's pretty quiet around other people. She's an introvert and can be socially awkward at times. Not a deal breaker to me, but just something that has caused me to rarely initiate texts or conversations with her, especially as of late.

We don't usually text unless it has to do with a date. And her texts can be brief. We occasionally email once in a while, but most of our communication is face to face. I'd like to communicate more often via text/phone, but I feel if I initiated it too much it would come across as annoying/needy.There have been several times I discover that she's going through a tough several days or week and I'm fairly certain the most recent ones are because of her trying to get over her EX. So my response to this is to back off and give her space. And in time, she begins to pursue me again and I ask her out and the cycle starts all over again. 
I agree that if she really wanted to go, she would have asked. So that kinda hurts personally, but I feel even more guilty for not confirming. 

In all honesty, I never knew checking in a few days in advance was an expected courtesy in dating. I'm having a tough time that women can assume that the dates is magically cancelled because they didn't hear from the guy the night before. Isn't assuming a negative? If the confirmation rests solely on the guy, then I call BS and that it's part of the RULES/ GAME. If she is going to make other plans, then tell the guy you haven't heard from him and will be making other plans. Just like he would if he changed his mind. Seriously. And call me clueless in the dating game. Like I mentioned before, if we agree on a date, then it's a date. It's called communication and I agree with some of the posters that it's on the both of us.
But lesson learned, because it looks like it's expected and sometimes I need to swallow my pride.

So when I talk to her, I'll cover the following
1. Where do we exactly stand in our relationship? Or how would she define it?
2. Explain that I am giving her space because it appears her feelings are somewhere else.
3. That I really am interested in her and enjoy going out and having a good time together.
4. Communicate more often. Especially if she begins to assume something about me (I'm no longer interested in going out).

After typing all of the above I realized something. My feelings for each other are probably greater than hers, unless she's been bottling it up inside. So far, it's been a very casual relationship. I've received mixed messages from her based on great dates (kissing/holding hands) to sudden aloofness from her and learn later she's having a tough several days or week. Could I be bringing up feelings from her past that she hasn't resolved?
I've been making excuses in my head that it's all about her introverted nature. But it's becoming clear that she's probably emotionally detached because of her breakup. Afraid to put her feelings and heart out there. I get it.
Should I bring that up with her? Or just keep the question simple from Question #1 above? I might get all the answers I need from #1.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

"Actually, I am interested in her.
I'm struggling to get some balance in the dating world and that includes my nice guy issues."

And yet you continue to let those issues confound you.

She makes alternate plans for your date night and opts for them instead of you. At this point I would tell myself that I am indeed barking up the wrong tree and elect to waste no further energies on this particular pursuit.

Why shame yourself? You're worth more than that aren't you?


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## browneyes74 (Sep 1, 2013)

How far are both of you from your marriages? 

It may be that she's not ready yet. She may like you, but not be ready.. 

This is kinda why I'm shutting men down from the get-go.. I don't want to meet someone I like and then be faced with the "do I start to date them even though I'm not ready b/c they might not be available when I am?" conundrum.. 

I think having an open conversation is a good idea..


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

If you are reading NMMNG then you know about finding a RGW. (Really Great Woman)

In my opinion I am having a hard time seeing how she might fit this description. How do you feel about this? You are so early in this relationship and you are already having to play guessing games with her, and you are having to strategize when you should call her about coming dates. Call her the night before and she isn't feeling well. Call her the day of and she has made other plans.

Dr. Glover said to choose someone who chooses you. If she wants to see you she will move heaven and earth to do it.

I think PBear got it right....she is not that in to you....


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Sounds like maybe she isn't ready for dating. If she can't go through the week without having a few bad days from getting over her Ex, I don't think that's a good sign for you. Why would you want to be that guy right after her EX? She seems to be having a really tough time with it still. 

You can be friends, but I don't think she will be able to date you without drama and depression from her breakup for a while. Is that something you look past?


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Houstondad said:


> There's waaaay too much assumptions on my part and possibly her as well.
> 
> If the confirmation rests solely on the guy, then I call BS and that it's part of the RULES/ GAME.


You're still making an assumption here. Confirmation doesn't necessarily rest on the _guy_, but rests on the _person_ who does the inviting. If you're a guy and you invite a woman to dinner, confirmation rests with YOU. If you're a woman and you invite a man out to dinner, confirmation rests with the woman. It's not about gender; it's about whoever invited WHOM has the 'burden' of confirming. This applies not only in romantic relationships but in the business world, too. The only exception is if the invitee has to change plans. If you invited me to dinner next Friday, and I find out on Monday that I have to be out of town on Friday, it would be up to ME to call YOU a.s.a.p. It would be inappropriate for me to *wait* until you call me to confirm before telling you that I can't make the date. 

You mentioned that she was still getting over her ex. In all honesty, she may be looking ONLY to date right now without getting into another relationship too quickly, so I would NOT have the "where do we stand?" conversation right now. 

How long was she with her ex and how long ago did they break up? The answers to BOTH of those questions may help you figure out a few things (such as, if your relationship with this woman a relationship worth pursing NOW). 

Vega


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Houstondad said:


> Actually, I am interested in her.
> I'm struggling to get some balance in the dating world and that includes my nice guy issues. I've come across as needy in the past when it comes to contacting a girl. So with her, I'm trying to not call/contact her too much. Say what you want, but I've found more success with girls when guys don't show too much interest in the dating stages.


So you are gaming her. Yet you complain about her doing the same.



> AND what's so hard for checking in with me if it's still a go? Is there a "RULE" for women not to check on that one? Pffft!


So you confirming is bad, but she should have?



> Just because I don't call the night before shouldn't mean it's cancelled. If I need to cancel, I'll call a woman and tell her straight up. This is why I'm having a hard time buying much of what is said on here. Sure, it's polite and I probably should do it anyways and not be afraid of the response. But should not confirming mean a definitive no interest?
> And yes, there's a damn good chance she's GAMING me. Maybe until something better comes along, which may have happened today.
> She's hot and cold.
> It's felt like a back and forth game this last month or so. I show interest, we hang out, make out, then she seems aloof and/or cancels the next eventual date. Then I distance myself and she starts to show lots of interest back and I eventually cave and respond by asking her out.Why? I'd like to think she's still interested in me, but I think she would have left her options open and said yes when I still tried to move the date to later today.


Seems to me that you are both playing a game. No problem with it, other than no real moral high ground for either of you. 



> The tough part is that I want to tell her how I really feel about her. But I'm butt-hurt/ ego-hurt right now and feel that the timing of it would be bad and show too much weakness/neediness from my part.


So more game playing. You say you are interested in her, but don't want to show it. Well, the draw back to doing so is that she may be unsure that you really are interested, so will play a game to try and gauge where you stand. It is up to you how you want to proceed, but I can't really fault her for doing the exact same thing you are doing.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

I'm way out of the dating scene and I know a lot has changed since my days including cell phones, texting, etc. But honestly, if you asked a girl on a date a week in advance, it's your responsibility to get back and give her a time and place. How is she to know what to wear, how to prepare, etc? She might have though you weren't even serious and threw the invite out like a fake "Let's do lunch". Guys may scoff, but we gals need this detailed, confirmed info. And it's not our responsibility to hunt you down to ask, If we do...we're called needy or clingy.

This was for an afternoon date. This has different implications than an evening date. Also, if you've been dating for two months at this stage of life and you've only kissed, she probably thinks you're not interested...or gay.

Dating sucks. So much hand-wringing over nonsense. I'm so glad I don't have to play that anymore. Honestly, if I ever got divorced I would just stay single.

Bottom line, if you like a girl, pursue her and make her feel wanted.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I don't think you did anything wrong.

She's blowing you off & making excuses (blame-shifting).

I'm old & married  but have a young adult daughter who is actively dating. Dudes will set up a date, say for a Sat. night & sometimes she doesn't know the time they are picking her up until 2 hrs. before the date. However, she still gets ready & is excited for the date.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I think the last time you're going to see her before the day of the date you should bring it up. Girls don't like having to guess. Comes across as arrogant or chicken.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I kinda see both sides in this... I think if you seen her through the week, it would have been GOOD to mention how you was looking forward to the date.. show some enthusiasm, get her to .......IF the woman likes you, this surely helps..some women may start to think , with your NOT mentioning it at all -that something is amiss..though I'd think she'd still hang on to "THE DAY" if she was really interested in you...waiting for you to get back to her, feeling this was worth the wait...

So in this way....she jumped ship... I think you should be more FIRM in the future.... date, TIME...and yeah, a text the day before to confirm... that way, if you get blown off... you know the woman was just not that into you.. instead of worrying you kinda left her hanging by not showing enough "ooommph" towards her... 

If It was me, I would have texted to confirm again before making new plans though (if I had another offer and the man seemed kinda distant -your fear of coming off TOO NICE -I prefer those types so that would be a turn off to me)....

And if I hadn't heard back in so many hours -thinking he is too casual for me....I might have changed my plans... but then, good communication again, I would have let him know..

Just be upfront... it's the best way.. I am someone who wouldn't put up with games, I would trust their word...and I might want more clarification... but after that ...if they pull my chain, leave me hanging, one date not showing up....I'd be out. 

Chalk it up to -there wasn't enough "oommmph" there to sustain this one.. learn from it..


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Thing is, you're dating. Dating should mean that you enjoy TALKING to each other, even between dates - when you see her, when you feel like calling, even sending a text cos you saw something that reminded you of her. It's called flirting. You make it sound like a business arrangement.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Off subject a little but....
*Kudos to you Houstondad* for recognizing traits that didn't work out for you in the past (nice guy) and trying to change how you do things. It's a way to avoid making the same mistakes over again. You may make a few mistakes but at least they're new ones that you can learn from.

I'm sure it's hard not to second guess yourself when you're going against your nature but you're on the right track.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I haven't read 'No More Mr. Nice Guy', but I would have to assume that it would have some advice such as: be honest, be forthright etc. Is that right?

In this situation, I would expect a man with these sort of traits to 1) be more proactive and decisive about a date he'd organised 2) already asked whether she was truly interested, because he didn't want to waste his time with someone who didn't know her mind, 3) if she was positive regarding the last, stated that he would prefer to date a woman who didn't cancel dates on him, 4) if she did it again after that, stopped pursuing her completely.


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## Houstondad (Jul 6, 2011)

I haven't been on since my last post. I decided to swallow my pride and I texted her Sunday. Made a short apology for my lack of communication. Still would like to take her out and suggested this Saturday at a park. She said it sounds great. Monday afternoon I text her that I had a few ideas for Saturday and that I'd like to discuss with her when I see her at the gym. No response from her. And I haven't seen her at the gym the last two days (and we always run into each other Mondays & Tuesdays. What the heck? Strange, huh?
She works part-time at the gym (trainer) and works Wednesdays.I feel like talking to her face to face vs. playing game and giving her the silent treatment because that's what I feel is a possibility. And yes, I know it can be other things which is why I plan to talk to her face to face. 
A friend said she may have had other plans regarding last Saturday because she's teaching me a lesson. That she wants more out of the relationship. I'm not so sure.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Houstondad said:


> I haven't been on since my last post. I decided to swallow my pride and I texted her Sunday. Made a short apology for my lack of communication. Still would like to take her out and suggested this Saturday at a park. She said it sounds great. Monday afternoon I text her that I had a few ideas for Saturday and that I'd like to discuss with her when I see her at the gym. No response from her. And I haven't seen her at the gym the last two days (and we always run into each other Mondays & Tuesdays. What the heck? Strange, huh?
> She works part-time at the gym (trainer) and works Wednesdays.I feel like talking to her face to face vs. playing game and giving her the silent treatment because that's what I feel is a possibility. And yes, I know it can be other things which is why I plan to talk to her face to face.
> A friend said she may have had other plans regarding last Saturday because *she's teaching me a lesson.* That she wants more out of the relationship. I'm not so sure.


Next!


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

HoustonDad, what happened with younger coworker girl? She was kind of flakey I think. 

Maybe I'm thinking of another poster.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Houstondad said:


> I haven't been on since my last post. I decided to swallow my pride and I texted her Sunday. Made a short apology for my lack of communication. Still would like to take her out and suggested this Saturday at a park. She said it sounds great. Monday afternoon I text her that I had a few ideas for Saturday and that I'd like to discuss with her when I see her at the gym. No response from her. And I haven't seen her at the gym the last two days (and we always run into each other Mondays & Tuesdays. What the heck? Strange, huh?
> She works part-time at the gym (trainer) and works Wednesdays.I feel like talking to her face to face vs. playing game and giving her the silent treatment because that's what I feel is a possibility. And yes, I know it can be other things which is why I plan to talk to her face to face.
> A friend said she may have had other plans regarding last Saturday because she's teaching me a lesson. That she wants more out of the relationship. I'm not so sure.


I assume that you might see her today. If so, chat and see what happens. If not, send her another text today or tomorrow noting you missed her at the gym and wanted to talk about Saturday. 

She could be game playing. She also could be trying to back off because she thinks she is moving to fast. Or she is trying to keep it casual. Or any number of things. So go into without trying to read her mind at this point.


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## Houstondad (Jul 6, 2011)

Soccermom-
Yes, she was flaky. With her I ended up approaching her face to face to cancel our next "date". So I tell her right away that I must cancel the date. She had a surprised look on her face.
She then starts apologizing and tells me she's a real "****ty person" for not saying anything and that she's been seeing someone for a couple of weeks who is probably married and is a serial killer (she was always self-deprecating). I tell her I always prefer it when women can be direct and upfront with me. And then I left. Done. I had planned to say more (I prefer a woman who doesn't play games and sends mixed messages), but at that point I didn't need to waste any more effort on her.

This girl at the gym has been flaky too and I plan to confront her as well. I just plan to tell her what I'm looking for in a girl and that I prefer upfront, honest and stable women. Oh, and doesn't play any STUPID ****ING GAMES!


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## MrHappy (Oct 23, 2008)

Nucking Futs said:


> Next!


X2


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## Malcolm38 (Dec 25, 2012)

Life is too short. I'd rather just read a good book than to play High School games. Hope this works out for you.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

Yeah, how old are these girls you're dating? In relation to you? It sounds like you're dating sorority girls....


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

There are plenty of women out there who are not flaky. Are you picking these women based on their looks? Or do they remind you somehow of your ex-wife? There's a reason you are picking this type. You need to figure it out and go in the other direction.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I haven't dated in a looong time but I don't remember it being so complicated as it is now.

If a guy asked me out and I was attracted, I said yes. If I wasn't, I said no. If a guy asked me out on a 2nd date and if I was still interested, I said yes. If not, I said no. Pretty basic.


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## Houstondad (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm 42. The two girls are 28 and 29. But it seemed like I was dating 22 year olds.
You know what both have in common? Extremely beautiful with great slender bodies. 9's+

But what else? Baggage. Unresolved Issues. Possible mental disorders ( I think the first is either a rapid-cycler BP or Borderline) and the one I've yet to talk to isn't too far off. Not a big surprise when you have hot young women available. What's the catch?
My EX? She has several mental issues. But it didn't become pronounced until late in our marriage. Fairly healthy early on. But when things got bad, I hung around helping. Enabling. 

But even so, I am a White Knight. A rescuer. I'm always helping/ saving others (I'm a School counselor for crying out loud). Not as bad as when I was in my marriage. But I knew deep down they had issues. Red Flags that I saw, but ignored because they were too beautiful.
And I need to learn how to stop. HOW?
I've been with several 6's and 7's who had their **** together and I eventually grew tired of them.
I know. Not good.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Please listen to me when I say, stop looking for the 9's+. Most women are not 9's so statistically, most of the GOOD women out there are NOT in the group you're trolling in. And most 9's have spent their lives getting what they want because of their looks and thus have NO PERSONALITY. Don't look for that crap. Pick out someone who likes what you like and see if it goes somewhere.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you grow tired of someone, figure out why. That is inside you, so you should be able to recognize the place at which you grew tired.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Houstondad said:


> Extremely beautiful with great slender bodies. 9's+
> 
> But what else? Baggage. Unresolved Issues. Possible mental disorders ( I think the first is either a rapid-cycler BP or Borderline) and the one I've yet to talk to isn't too far off. Not a big surprise when you have hot young women available. What's the catch?
> 
> ...


I don't buy the single hot girls are damaged argument. Maybe you're just attracted to girls with emotional issues so you can be their Knight in shining armor. If they need fixed then your tendencies kick in and you start pursuing. Plus it's quite possible that "not having their **** together" bumps them up on your 1-10 scale.

I say aim high. A woman who's always been sexy or hot has always been pursued by men and she knows all of the PUA tricks. Once in a committed relationship she's generally less vulnerable IMO. But you've got to have your **** together if you want to keep a good woman no matter where she fits on your 1-10 looks scale.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

Houstondad said:


> I'm 42. The two girls are 28 and 29. But it seemed like I was dating 22 year olds.
> You know what both have in common? Extremely beautiful with great slender bodies. 9's+
> 
> But what else? Baggage. Unresolved Issues. Possible mental disorders


I'm sorry, but you're old enough to know better than this!

Stop trying to date babies. They don't have mental disorders. They are still maturing and frankly, they come from a different generation than you. They were raised on Facebook and smartphones. They don't share the same life experiences or goals. They are great for stroking your ego right now. And if they are in their 20's and smokin' hot, they are used to being treated like princesses. Are you looking to be a sugar daddy? Is the goal to show off to your friends and ex-wife?

That's not to say you won't be able to find a younger woman with shared interests to be a life companion. It happens. But you need to be realistic. Stop worrying about 6's or 9's. Find someone you enjoy hanging out with, feel comfortable talking to.

Women often make the same mistake by trying to date sexy bad boys and then wondering why the relationships don't last and aren't fulfilling.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

yeah_right said:


> I'm sorry, but you're old enough to know better than this!
> 
> Stop trying to date babies.


The two women he mentioned are almost thirty years old. There age isn't the problem. It's how they treat him and others that is the problem. 42-28 isn't considered taboo anywhere in the world however 32-18 would be.

Age disparity in sexual relationships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Stop trying to date hot women 14 years younger than you. There's a reason why they're willing to go out with a guy that much older than them, when they could have any guy they want their own age. Stick with hot women closer to your own age. 

My $0.02 worth

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

I did not say it's taboo. I'm saying it may not be a good match for companionship because of shared life experiences. 

For example, when OP was 18 in 1990, today's internet was a theory and you were hot stuff if you carried a pager. You might have collected an awesome collection of vinyl albums during your teen years. The hottie from the gym was 18 in 2004. She was taking selfies with her Razr. It's a shallow example, but there is a reality of how technology shapes people.

If all he's looking for is some hot sex and arm candy, then he should not complain about being played with. But I sense he would like something more.

If he needs a hot woman, there are plenty of sexy, intelligent cougars ready to pounce!

Edit: I also want to add that if you want long-term relationships with women in their 20's, eventually most are going to want to make babies. Are you ready for that?


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Thundarr said:


> The two women he mentioned are almost thirty years old. There age isn't the problem. It's how they treat him and others that is the problem. 42-28 isn't considered taboo anywhere in the world however 32-18 would be.
> 
> Age disparity in sexual relationships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Hmmm, he is dating women for their looks and youth and personal issues that mean they are vulnerable to someone wanting to 'fix' their problems and *they* are the ones with the problem? I fail to see how the way he is being treated due to his own choices is their fault for being who they are.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Houstondad,

You need to stop taking things personally. Flaking has become an established practice in dating. Women do it and men expect it. And the younger the woman, the more likely she will flake. I saw a recent article recounting how girls in college will set up three or more commitments for a weekend night and pick one to satisfy.

One one hand, it does say something about how she views you. If she were head over heels for you, she would most likely satisfy her commitments. So, she is communicating how little she values time with you. On the other hand, it's unlikely that this is all a complicated, calculated strategy to keep you off balance.

So, back off. And I don't mean to back off by not talking to her for X days, then ask her out, then wait Y days to confirm. I mean stop asking her out on one on one dates. Start including her in plans you otherwise have. Make plans to go out with your friends to a show, or festival, and invite the girl to tag along. If she flakes, you won't be sitting home alone wondering whether to call her and confront her. You just go out with your friends like you originally planned.

The fact is, dating is a game. If you want to date, you need to learn how to play the game. If you don't want to play the game, don't date.

And date women you're attracted to. Don't worry about what people tell you that you should be attracted to. If I tell you to stop being attracted to beautiful women in their twenties and start chasing after overweight, menopausal crack *****s (they need love, too), it wouldn't affect me in the slightest if you did, or didn't. Do what makes you happy.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Flaking isn't the norm where I live. Maybe the women I know just aren't that flaky. You get what you look for I guess.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Houstondad said:


> I'm 42. The two girls are 28 and 29. But it seemed like I was dating 22 year olds.
> You know what both have in common? *Extremely beautiful with great slender bodies. 9's+*
> 
> But what else? *Baggage. Unresolved Issues.*
> ...


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

breeze said:


> Hmmm, he is dating women for their looks and youth and personal issues that mean they are vulnerable to someone wanting to 'fix' their problems and *they* are the ones with the problem? I fail to see how the way he is being treated due to his own choices is their fault for being who they are.


Yes codependency is a join effort. But we're not talking to Mrs 28 or Mrs 29. We're trying to help HD.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Thundarr said:


> Yes codependency is a join effort. But we're not talking to Mrs 28 or Mrs 29. We're trying to help HD.


I agree, we can't talk sense into these young women, therefore, telling him that these women need to change their behaviour will not help him at all. Pointing out that the choices he makes are what he *can* change if he doesn't want to continue this cycle won't necessarily help either, but it has to beat blaming women we can't even talk to for the choices they make that we can't entirely fathom.


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