# Is this an emotional affair?



## thoughtcreation (Mar 16, 2018)

.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Of course. This is exactly how workplace affairs starts. Classic. The next step will be the touchy- feely more intimate physical contact, until they finally cross the line. 

Cut it in the bud right now. No buts. Demand it, or else.


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## thoughtcreation (Mar 16, 2018)

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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

You are allowing your husband to date this woman. Successful career woman here, 60 years old & husband 62, & 38 years married (first marriage for both of us). My husband had his own real estate rental business & now retired. I would not allow any of the behaviors that you have with your husband. No female texting, phone calls, or emails with females (younger or older), other than business related. I will be retiring from my professional position in a few months. Neither my husband or I have cheated on each other because we do not let friendships of the opposite sex get close.

We only go to dinners or lunches with other individuals that are business related. When this is to happen, we inform each other of the events of the day. Tell your husband as to how you are feeling about this situation. You need to be honest with him or your marriage will not last. They are already falling in love.

Your guts is telling you to act. Do not hesitate before it gets too late.


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## Natthewife (Jun 16, 2014)

The fact she stays overnight when u are not there is a huge red flag and a big no no in my book. 
Allowing this to continue at this level you may as well just marry them yourself. 


Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

It doesn't have to do with anything about the marriage or your relationship, these things happen all the time, just out of pure connection and physical attraction. she's younger, hes a guy, and sometimes, guys just go dumb over a pretty young face, and they start the game of conquest by worming their way into the woman's brain. 

Give him a rude Awakening.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

The gallant knight (YOUR HUSBAND) and the younger
princess (HER) She looks up to him and they praise each other!!
She has stayed at your house with him while you were away.
OUT OF THE COUNTRY!! RED FLAGS every where. Emotional affair
BET ON IT!! Since she has stayed overnight at your house alone 
with him could be more (PHYSICAL) or going that way. Your gut
is SCREAMING and telling you something.YOU NEED TO LISTEN.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Emotional and physical affair.

Sorry OP.

Get rid of her.

You may need to get rid of him too.


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## thoughtcreation (Mar 16, 2018)

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## thoughtcreation (Mar 16, 2018)

..


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## Um Excuse Me (Feb 3, 2018)

thoughtcreation said:


> Nothing physical. That i can guarantee. (pl dont ask how) But pasting an instance of the hundreds of messages which I cannot swoop down on as "one" problematic thing. But this -
> 
> Him: Just thought of checking in to see if you're okay. Very sorry to hear from your Facebook post that X (difficult chemical issue) has happened in your Y work thing. Was it hard? Was it such and such?
> Her: Yes. That was hard. Plus A B C other problems too - having such a hard time this week.
> ...



Or:

Him: You understand me so much better than my wife.
Her: She's so lucky to have you.
Him: Yes, but she's never around and I can't relate to her, like I relate to you.
Her: Come here and give me a hug.
Him: Boing.........


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

thoughtcreation said:


> I just need a perspective on whether I am going mad and imagining things or if this is really a thing.
> 
> My husband and I have been together 13 years this summer. He is a stay at home father largely with a flexible position in a laboratory. I am pretty high up in banking and finance and am based between the UK, Amsterdam and NYC. We are both the same age - mid forties. A year or so ago, a young female scientist joined the lab my husband works in. She is very talented, highly successful, and in my knowledge about 11 years younger to us. Over the last year, my husband has taken her under his wing. I confess to snooping, but there have been multiple situations which all work out as her requiring some form of help, my husband providing a huge, gallant amount of help with a ton of emotional feedback, praising her in amazement, admiration, awe (not my words) - her profusely thanking him for his gallantry, wisdom, intellect. Her confiding very personal matters and experiences (including her family, relationship difficulties, her need for support, more private matters), him reassuring her of his confidence, praising her. Him approaching her with his own disappointments if things go wrong at the lab (something relatively usual - say an experiment backfires) - and her then reassuring him profoundly and helping him feel better - and this goes on - we are talking some 3-400 emails in 3 months or whatever. Lots of workplace coffees and lunches, which have progressed to becoming long afternoon cake, meals and drink outings in seaside cafes (we live in a beach town) - her confiding in him, him feeding her back with such emotional support - building up her morale, esteem, confidence - her claiming her infinite gratitude for his reassurance. it is as though - my husband - who I have always known as a reticent, shy man, happy for me to be the confident, able, voice - is this knight in shining armour for her (a highly exceptional scientist anyway who barely needs help for her work). She also has visited our house a fair few times, including overnight stays - but or a variety of circumstances it always seem to fall when I am in NYC or Amsterdam...
> 
> Not one of these instances is one big red flag. but together? Am I insane to think he at least has some form of a softness for her? But surely not? There is a blooming 11 years gap?!


Your H is going on dates.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

thoughtcreation said:


> Nothing physical. That i can guarantee. (pl dont ask how) But pasting an instance of the hundreds of messages which I cannot swoop down on as "one" problematic thing. But this -
> 
> Him: Just thought of checking in to see if you're okay. Very sorry to hear from your Facebook post that X (difficult chemical issue) has happened in your Y work thing. Was it hard? Was it such and such?
> Her: Yes. That was hard. Plus A B C other problems too - having such a hard time this week.
> ...


Over the top in praise IMO. Further, what's the crap with earning a relax? This is something I would say to my W. Not a coworker. Your H, IMO, appears to be grooming this individual.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> She also has visited our house a fair few times, including overnight stays - but or a variety of circumstances it always seem to fall when I am in NYC or Amsterdam...


If she ever gets mad at your husband, she now has a lot of material to work with.

Affairs whether or P or E are noted not only what your spouse does but what he doesn't do. Do you feel as if you have lost the connection with your husband?


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## thoughtcreation (Mar 16, 2018)

That is a lot of views aligning with some form of softness on his part for her. Which is also why I am unable to do much because there is not one particular thing or message that is “wrong”. There is just a lot of providing seeking and reaching out for support and many long coffees and lunches. There is nothing wrong with any of that individually.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

thoughtcreation said:


> I just need a perspective on whether I am going mad and imagining things or if this is really a thing.
> 
> My husband and I have been together 13 years this summer. He is a stay at home father largely with a flexible position in a laboratory. I am pretty high up in banking and finance and am based between the UK, Amsterdam and NYC. We are both the same age - mid forties. A year or so ago, a young female scientist joined the lab my husband works in. She is very talented, highly successful, and in my knowledge about 11 years younger to us. Over the last year, my husband has taken her under his wing. I confess to snooping, but there have been multiple situations which all work out as her requiring some form of help, my husband providing a huge, gallant amount of help with a ton of emotional feedback, praising her in amazement, admiration, awe (not my words) - her profusely thanking him for his gallantry, wisdom, intellect. Her confiding very personal matters and experiences (including her family, relationship difficulties, her need for support, more private matters), him reassuring her of his confidence, praising her. Him approaching her with his own disappointments if things go wrong at the lab (something relatively usual - say an experiment backfires) - and her then reassuring him profoundly and helping him feel better - and this goes on - we are talking some 3-400 emails in 3 months or whatever. Lots of workplace coffees and lunches, which have progressed to becoming long afternoon cake, meals and drink outings in seaside cafes (we live in a beach town) - her confiding in him, him feeding her back with such emotional support - building up her morale, esteem, confidence - her claiming her infinite gratitude for his reassurance. it is as though - my husband - who I have always known as a reticent, shy man, happy for me to be the confident, able, voice - is this knight in shining armour for her (a highly exceptional scientist anyway who barely needs help for her work). She also has visited our house a fair few times, *including overnight stays - but or a variety of circumstances it always seem to fall when I am in NYC or Amsterdam...*
> 
> Not one of these instances is *one big red flag*. but together? Am I insane to think he at least has some form of a softness for her? But surely not? There is a blooming 11 years gap?!


There is one big red flag, all on its own.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

OP, it is not about your marriage but where it is going because of another woman in your life. My 80 year old mother's last words to me when I spoke to her the last time was "never trust any woman with your husband, not even your older sister". My father and she was married for 60 years, neither cheated on each other, and had 4 children. She was a career & professional woman, unusual in her time. She was a statistician & my father an accountant.

Her words were prompted by my questionning on how they were able to sustain a long time marriage, over all the years. Their marriage was first time for the both of them. I still have a copy of their marriage certificate which she gifted me. 

OP, you are a smart woman. Use your gifts. Your marriage will be heading to the rocks in a very short time. I have seen this scenario played over in my workplace. I have worked in the same office for 28 years. I am a university professor & researcher. Talk to your husband now.


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

Read the words you write and consider them.

You say he has always been happy to take the submissive role. Is this still the case? Does he still feel like a man around you? Have you sat down with him and had a relationship health check talk? 

Clearly there is a void in him that is being nourished by this other person.

Perhaps an answer might lay in discovering what is lacking. People are very quick to externalise instead of having a good hard think about their part in any issues that arise.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

thoughtcreation said:


> That is a lot of views aligning with some form of softness on his part for her. Which is also why I am unable to do much because there is not one particular thing or message that is “wrong”. *There is just a lot of providing seeking and reaching out for support and many long coffees and lunches.* There is nothing wrong with any of that individually.


Does he do those things for you? Those things are what is shared in a marriage.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

You can tell him and her together how you feel.
You can stop the overnight stays while your away.
You can tell him and her work related texts, e-mails etc. only
You can and should make sure everything is only work related
nothing about her or your family, her love life etc. 
This is how an EMOTIONAL AFFAIR STARTS!!
They seem to all ready be getting close and comfortable.
AGAIN YOUR GUT IS SCREAMING LISTEN TO IT!!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Roselyn said:


> OP, it is not about your marriage but where it is going because of another woman in your life. My 80 year old mother's last words to me when I spoke to her the last time was "never trust any woman with your husband, not even your older sister". My father and she was married for 60 years, neither cheated on each other, and had 4 children. She was a career & professional woman, unusual in her time. She was a statistician & my father an accountant.
> 
> Her words were prompted by my questionning on how they were able to sustain a long time marriage, over all the years. Their marriage was first time for the both of them. I still have a copy of their marriage certificate which she gifted me.
> 
> OP, you are a smart woman. Use your gifts. Your marriage will be heading to the rocks in a very short time. I have seen this scenario played over in my workplace. I have worked in the same office for 28 years. I am a university professor & researcher. Talk to your husband now.


Double ditto. 😊


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

thoughtcreation said:


> She also has visited our house a fair few times, including overnight stays - but or a variety of circumstances it always seem to fall when I am in NYC or Amsterdam...
> 
> Not one of these instances is one big red flag. but together?


ARE YOU KIDDING ME??????? Another woman, spending the night in your home while you are away, is NOT a big red flag for you?!?

If my husband had ever had any woman, any time, stay in our home while I was away, he would have become my EX husband in a New York minute.

You sound very intelligent, but extremely naïve. Or else you have a severe form of denial. This is, at the very least, an emotional affair.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I'd hit double like for Prodigal's post if I could 😊.


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## Katiebird (Jun 7, 2010)

YES, YES, YES!!! Please do something about it now or you will be like me in a few years - wishing that I had heeded all the red flags and gut feelings.


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## stro (Feb 7, 2018)

I guess one litmus test is. “Would he communicate like this with a male colleague”? I’m guessing not. Sounds like an EA.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

Your husband actually let her stay overnight???

I won't be surprised if it had gone physical already.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

stro said:


> I guess one litmus test is. “Would he communicate like this with a male colleague”? I’m guessing not. Sounds like an EA.


I asked my husband about this post. He said, "No, men don't bond like this one as co-workers". My husband said that most likely they are having an affair already. When you bring another woman to your home (on overnight visits) without the wife present, they most likely had sex already in the house. He also said that it is more likely that an older man is more attracted to a more younger woman as physically a woman 11 years younger is in better shape. My husband's brother-in-law was 20 years older than his sister. OP, heed the warnings!


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

This reminds me of my mom. She smoked for 40 years and said that if she ever got sick, she’d quit. She got copd 5 years ago and went cold turkey. She wonders why she had to wait so long to quit when now she is sick.

You are waiting til you get sick.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

He is grooming her and she is eating it up


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Would he use the exact same words in communication with a shining star colleague who is a man, a male?

Would those very same words sound odd to you if he had written them, and received them from, a young man?

It is my opinion your husband is having an affair. Not just an emotional affair.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Ah, spring is in the air and kids are on break everywhere.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> Ah, spring is in the air and kids are on break everywhere.


I think you're right. The OP's overall cluelessness runs counter to the statement below:



> I am pretty high up in banking and finance and am based between the UK, Amsterdam and NYC.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

thoughtcreation said:


> it is as though - my husband - who I have always known as a reticent, shy man, happy for me to be the confident, able, voice - is this knight in shining armour for her


You have very good insight.

Over the years, I've heard and read this many, many times. I've watched it begin to happen in my own life, too. I've watched it happen in my church, and in my workplace.

Being the KISA feels so good. Men have a "need" to be the protector, the dragon-slayer, the cowboy who saves the damsel and rides off into the sunset. The men get invigorated by being the KISA. For a brief time, he gets to indulge the delusion.

The guys who get involved in KISA are usually the "reticent, shy" ones. My own insights and intellect also tell me that the problem you don't want me to ask about is a major "feeder" which provides fuel for this behavior.

Many of these men, including me, do not let this progress "over the line". Because on their true heart's inside, they are loving and faithful men who have strong convictions about right and wrong. They completely abhor wrong. This fact alone makes discovery and confrontation extremely difficult for their wives. The men, by and large, don't consider what they are doing is wrong. They have convinced themselves that they are "helping" the damsel in distress, and that they are not taking anything away from their wives by what they're doing. After all, their wife doesn't need them. It doesn't matter to them that the damsel is fully capable of relieving her own distress, because it feels so good to them to be the KISA. The only difference in their wife and the damsel is that the damsel provides the "reward".

I'm going to risk getting flamed into oblivion here, but it's something to consider. I don't think you will succeed by the conventional discovery-confrontation process. You will never get the "smoking gun" because your husband is very careful not to pull the trigger. You will find the gun, but no smoke. It was not fired.

I read your words as those of a very intelligent and sophisticated woman. I think you are fully capable of stopping this relationship dead in its tracks.

Find life situations in which you can play damsel-in-distress. Use the fact that a man wants nothing more in his entire life than to be his wife's hero. Let him find himself the KISA to you.

Listen to their words to each other. They are a paragon of complete disingenuity. They wouldn't make it on to a third-rate soap opera. A woman of your acumen will be able to beat this by a mile.


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## thoughtcreation (Mar 16, 2018)

I have been quite a fool. Thanks everyone for commenting and kicks up the proverbial backside.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

You haven't been a fool -- you've just been very trusting of your husband. This is NOT your fault at all that he is doing this -- any affair is 100% on the cheater. THEY made the decision to do it, you didn't force him


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

thoughtcreation said:


> I have been quite a fool. Thanks everyone for commenting and kicks up the proverbial backside.


OP, don't feel foolish. This is on your husband. He is not a child. You are very busy and trusted your husband. Trust is essential in a marriage. However, yours has been breached. You are an executive & you know when action is needed in a negative situation. My very best to you.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

thoughtcreation said:


> But what I cannot place my finger on is what exactly it is that indicates something off. I cannot find one "specific" instance of anything that I can do anything about. We have a strong stable relationship over 13 years - surely that is a strong base and not na unhappy marriage or anything from where affair could arise?


I guess her staying the night with y Y out of town, the dates they have on the beach and for lunch, and the 3-400 emails don’t seem like enough red flags for you?

11 years age gap? Lol, when I was single after my divorce, I dated ladies 10-15 years younger and far better looking than I am—- fairly regularly.
You are not crazy, unless you count the fact that it’s taken you this long to wise up.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

OP your marriage is at serious risk here. No matter your work committments, if you are away at the moment, get on the next flight home! Don't tell anyone you're coming, just show up. SURPRISE!

Your husband must, at the very least, quit his job and have NO further contact with this girl under any circumstances.

If he won't do that, well...


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## jferg0212 (Mar 18, 2018)

thoughtcreation said:


> I just need a perspective on whether I am going mad and imagining things or if this is really a thing.
> 
> My husband and I have been together 13 years this summer. He is a stay at home father largely with a flexible position in a laboratory. I am pretty high up in banking and finance and am based between the UK, Amsterdam and NYC. We are both the same age - mid forties. A year or so ago, a young female scientist joined the lab my husband works in. She is very talented, highly successful, and in my knowledge about 11 years younger to us. Over the last year, my husband has taken her under his wing. I confess to snooping, but there have been multiple situations which all work out as her requiring some form of help, my husband providing a huge, gallant amount of help with a ton of emotional feedback, praising her in amazement, admiration, awe (not my words) - her profusely thanking him for his gallantry, wisdom, intellect. Her confiding very personal matters and experiences (including her family, relationship difficulties, her need for support, more private matters), him reassuring her of his confidence, praising her. Him approaching her with his own disappointments if things go wrong at the lab (something relatively usual - say an experiment backfires) - and her then reassuring him profoundly and helping him feel better - and this goes on - we are talking some 3-400 emails in 3 months or whatever. Lots of workplace coffees and lunches, which have progressed to becoming long afternoon cake, meals and drink outings in seaside cafes (we live in a beach town) - her confiding in him, him feeding her back with such emotional support - building up her morale, esteem, confidence - her claiming her infinite gratitude for his reassurance. it is as though - my husband - who I have always known as a reticent, shy man, happy for me to be the confident, able, voice - is this knight in shining armour for her (a highly exceptional scientist anyway who barely needs help for her work). She also has visited our house a fair few times, including overnight stays - but or a variety of circumstances it always seem to fall when I am in NYC or Amsterdam...
> 
> Not one of these instances is one big red flag. but together? Am I insane to think he at least has some form of a softness for her? But surely not? There is a blooming 11 years gap?!




I think you should give your husband the benefit of doubt. You didn’t mention that he has ever cheated on you before. So don’t let these negative thoughts creep into your mind. Be positive, have a conversation with him about it and express how you feel. There’s no evidence that he’s cheating so don’t jump to that conclusion. Our mind plays tricks on us that we sometimes can’t survive. Express how you feel about her staying the night particularly when you’re not in town. You is his wife and he’s your husband. He should take that into consideration and make the proper decisions to move forward. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

jferg0212 said:


> There’s no evidence that he’s cheating so don’t jump to that conclusion.


How can you possibly say that “There’s no evidence that he’s cheating so don’t jump to that conclusion”? Most affairs go completely undetected, and there is rarely solid evidence of sex. Him sending her hundreds of personal emails, taking her to long lunch’s at the beach, taking her to dinner, and having her spend the night alone with him when his wife is out of the country, is better evidence than most cheated on spouses ever get. Look up “emotional affair” (EA), and you will see that what is going on meets the text book definition of an EA, with it being as best evidence as she will ever likely find to it also being a physical affair. If she needs to wait for him to admit it, that would be her waiting forever, as most cheaters take it to their grave.

If the current situation continues, I can see the possibility of OP’s husband telling the OP one day that he loves her but is no longer in love with her, divorcing her, moving in with other woman, and doing all of this without ever admitting to the OP that he ever cheated on her.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

thoughtcreation said:


> perhaps the messages I pasted are nothing. Reading them back it is all colleagial isn't it? Or is it a bit too warm for colleagiality over an 11 yr gap with a v sudden new person? My head isn't telling me which bit is real and which i am imagining.


It's inappropriate, he is not their to be her emotional and mental partner, she is his work colleague. Let me ask you this, does he do this with other colleagues who he doesn't have the potential to have a romantic relationship with? Are there men whom he does the same with? Do they sleep at your house (this is really a huge red flag by the way even if he is impotent they could still do other stuff). Do they go out to coffee to discuss their experiments. 

Come on here, you are a smart accomplished women, YOU KNOW deep down inside this is not right, it's why you posted on here, you just don't want to confront, but confront you must. He is not available to be her white knight when he is married to you. You have dibs on that as we say at the very least remind him of such.


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## thoughtcreation (Mar 16, 2018)

Other Whatsapp snippets

Her: Really stressed on home front...
Him: Is a specific individual still causing you masses of trouble? (Specific individual = her boyfriend)
Her: Yep. Still wont commit to replacing the car. Says the mileage still fine on this one.
Him: The mileage sounds like an excuse....of course I may be wrong.
Her: Just hard. After a long day's work to then sit and jabber about mileage or whatever it may be...
Him: I understand. There's a ton of stuff you've got done this week.
Her: Could have done with some support. 
Him: I get it.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

OP, have you decided what you're going to do?


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## thoughtcreation (Mar 16, 2018)

I have spoken to him this weekend. Insists that absolutely nothing is up. Frankly part of me feels convinced nothing is up. Or not. Back and forth. head feels like wool.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

thoughtcreation said:


> I just need a perspective on whether I am going mad and imagining things or if this is really a thing.
> 
> My husband and I have been together 13 years this summer. He is a stay at home father largely with a flexible position in a laboratory. I am pretty high up in banking and finance and am based between the UK, Amsterdam and NYC. We are both the same age - mid forties. A year or so ago, a young female scientist joined the lab my husband works in. She is very talented, highly successful, and in my knowledge about 11 years younger to us. Over the last year, my husband has taken her under his wing. I confess to snooping, but there have been multiple situations which all work out as her requiring some form of help, my husband providing a huge, gallant amount of help with a ton of emotional feedback, praising her in amazement, admiration, awe (not my words) - her profusely thanking him for his gallantry, wisdom, intellect. Her confiding very personal matters and experiences (including her family, relationship difficulties, her need for support, more private matters), him reassuring her of his confidence, praising her. Him approaching her with his own disappointments if things go wrong at the lab (something relatively usual - say an experiment backfires) - and her then reassuring him profoundly and helping him feel better - and this goes on - we are talking some 3-400 emails in 3 months or whatever. Lots of workplace coffees and lunches, which have progressed to becoming long afternoon cake, meals and drink outings in seaside cafes (we live in a beach town) - her confiding in him, him feeding her back with such emotional support - building up her morale, esteem, confidence - her claiming her infinite gratitude for his reassurance. it is as though - my husband - who I have always known as a reticent, shy man, happy for me to be the confident, able, voice - is this knight in shining armour for her (a highly exceptional scientist anyway who barely needs help for her work). She also has visited our house a fair few times, including overnight stays - but or a variety of circumstances it always seem to fall when I am in NYC or Amsterdam...
> 
> Not one of these instances is one big red flag. but together? Am I insane to think he at least has some form of a softness for her? But surely not? There is a blooming 11 years gap?!


*I cannot help but agree with those who say that the circumstantial evidence would strongly suggest something of a greater magnitude than merely just an EA!*


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

thoughtcreation said:


> Other Whatsapp snippets
> 
> Her: Really stressed on home front...
> Him: Is a specific individual still causing you masses of trouble? (Specific individual = her boyfriend)
> ...


That's a very red flag: *she's complaining about her partner to him*. And he's agreeing. 



> Insists that absolutely nothing is up. Frankly part of me feels convinced nothing is up. Or not.


*That's not the point. *

I'm not even sure what you precisely mean by "something being up", unless the word "something" refers to his vital organ. You don't need to decide what might or might not be happening that you can't be sure about. *You already know* that things are happening that are already unacceptable *to you*. 

You get to set your own boundaries. 
Those might or might not be:
- no communication outside of working hours
- no discussion of merits or otherwise of their respective partners
- no one-to-ones in outside cafes
- no visits to each others houses
- no confiding personal matters one to one

Whatever. Those are only my ideas - you have to decide. 

She's playing him like a cheap violin.


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