# Accepting a relationship is dead



## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

Starting a new thread. My previous thread "How to connect with wife" is no longer relevant. It appears that some were right and that it's dead. I believe she has already had an active relationship, but she still denies it. She admitted flirting and opportunity, but messages show more. I haven't found her talking to that partner...just several references to that other partner. I don't know if there is any benefit to going further to try to prove that....other than being "right". That might do more harm than good.

I'm trying to wrap my head around what to do next until we can get into marriage counseling (defering til kids can get past covid virtual schooling)...with the goal of finding out how to move forward as a family. Obviously other options are....live together as friends, divorce, reconcile, or something else. I don't want to hear "kick her to the curb". I won't do that.
I'm currently stuck on "why can't we try to fix the marriage we have?". To me....life sure feels a lot easier to live in the traditional constructs....a man, a wife, kids in a home...all acting as one unit.
To her....she feels that we only have a marriage on paper (which is fair) and she's too far checked out to even try. She can't see that a man, a woman, kids in the home + another woman and another man stealing time from the mom/dad/kids will be a challenge. I just don't see how those other relationships could be fullfilling without impacting the parent/kid relationship. 
She seems to want to just be nice to each other for the kids. I'm trying to talk myself into that. We do not fight around the kids....we really don't even fight when kids aren't around. We're more in the butting heads section of what we want. Our problems stem from frustration of our current state and come out in small outbursts of frustration. Kids also see me as disconnected, sad, angry, etc when I'm processing things (usually around the depth of her extramarital activities).

I've started counseling for myself, just to help me get levelset....but that only comes once a week. I think I just need to say "marriage counseling will come later...what happens in that counseling, we'll figure out later", suck it up and ignore what I know/expect is going on, and be nice. It's hard...but that's what brings normalcy to our kids...they need that right now. We've both done that for years.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Dude if she is searching out other partners there is nothing to save. You should really work on trying to face reality.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

sokillme said:


> Dude if she is searching out other partners there is nothing to save. You should really work on trying to face reality.


I have faced reality. Trying to figure out where to go next. I feel like I've been hit by a truck. Our goal in marriage counseling is to figure out if we stay together for the kids (and negotiate how that works) or by some longshot (resolve things). But I've been trying to resolve things in a what I now see as a one-sided discussion.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

DennisW said:


> I have faced reality. Trying to figure out where to go next. I feel like I've been hit by a truck. Our goal in marriage counseling is to figure out if we stay together for the kids (and negotiate how that works) or by some longshot (resolve things). But I've been trying to resolve things in a what I now see as a one-sided discussion.


There is no way to start fixing until all the issues are on the table and admitted to, which would mean her fully admitting what she's done. If you try to reconcile but leave out making her come clean, that is a "false reconciliation". It has bitten many a person around here in the behind when new information comes out years later.... it undoes all the effort to that point.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

re16 said:


> There is no way to start fixing until all the issues are on the table and admitted to, which would mean her fully admitting what she's done. If you try to reconcile but leave out making her come clean, that is a "false reconciliation". It has bitten many a person around here in the behind when new information comes out years later.... it undoes all the effort to that point.


Thanks. I understand that. Right now....she's not even willing to go there and have that discussion. In her eyes, she was "done" years ago and has been hanging on for the kids and supposedly NOT having an extra-marital relationship out of respect for me. Whether that's true or not.....I'm not sure I'll find the real truth right now. I expect that when we eventually do get to marriage counseling that there WILL be more things piled on that she needs to admit to.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Weighing in as a woman, I would advise you shelve marriage counseling. Your marriage is over. She is done. Continue to work on yourself. Focus on being the best dad you can be. And make an appointment to see an attorney to find out where you stand financially if you decide to divorce. Because from where I'm sitting, marriage counseling would be a waste of money and time. I see marriage counseling as something a couple tries because they want to make a real effort to save the marriage. Sadly, that isn't where your wife is heading. She's checked out. Sorry. JMO.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I second what @Prodigal said. She is done. She doesn't want to work on this marriage, agreed to marriage counseling just for you.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> I second what @Prodigal said. She is done. She doesn't want to work on this marriage, agreed to marriage counseling just for you.


I third this. She told you outright she isn't interested. You are just spinning your wheels not facing the reality that this is over and you need to go your separate ways.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

DennisW said:


> In her eyes, she was "done" years ago and has been hanging on for the kids and supposedly NOT having an extra-marital relationship out of respect for me.


Did she actually say that she "was done years ago"? If so, I think you have a nearly insurmountable situation. Is it you bringing up counseling? What is her thought about going?

99% of cheaters are not going to say they cheated, you would have to dig deeper and find evidence. If you are asking her about it, she will never tell you and then will destroy evidence. (what exactly did those other messages that referenced cheating say?)

Are you at a point where you are basically giving her a hall pass for any prior indiscretions even if she doesn't admit to them? If you are putting out that sort of weaknesses, you are not going to attract her back to you.... It may feel like your only hope, but putting blinders on to what she may have done will be the nail in the marital coffin. If a woman cheats, lies about it, and her husband just says its ok, she will view that husband as weak and never have a spark for him again.

A confident man would look at this situation that his wife has betrayed him, directly tells him she was done with him years ago, and is just using him for a paycheck as time to move on and find someone better. Why do you not view it that way?


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

Thanks ladies. I think marriage counseling will really turn into joint counseling on how we find some way to continue living together for the kids (I have my doubts on how that plays out...and she doesn't have any good answers). I don't have high expectations on how that feels.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

DennisW said:


> Thanks ladies. I think marriage counseling will really turn into joint counseling on how we find some way to continue living together for the kids (I have my doubts on how that plays out...and she doesn't have any good answers). I don't have high expectations on how that feels.


how old are the kids?


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> how old are the kids?


9 and 12


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

DennisW said:


> 9 and 12


Mine were 12 and 15 when we told them about divorce. they were not surprised at all. Next day both downloaded zillow and keeping watch on potential houses for me and their father....


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

I'm confused on the living with each other for the kids part. In my mind, being not together but living together for the kids is only going to cause nothing but confusion for them.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

hubbyintrubby said:


> I'm confused on the living with each other for the kids part. In my mind, being not together but living together for the kids is only going to cause nothing but confusion for them.


I totally agree. It shows them a bad example of what they might view as a marriage. I've brought this up. Also I questioned what kind of relationship can you build outside of this home without being too distant from your children's lives. ie....you're trying to be around for your kids, do things as a "family". How much quality time are you going to have with that other person? Decorate the christmas tree. Thanksgiving. Just boggles my mind.
I'm not making any immediate life decisions....just trying to get myself to a place where I can cope for the time being until we can get some form of group counseling.
I'm not going scorched earth on what I think she's been up to. Have evidence but it's veiled enough that she could possibly talk it down. When I told her I assumed the worst was happening she turned it back on me. I know it's not on me....just tired.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

we lived like that for around a year. Decision was made, but neither one of us was rushing. It was relief to finally tell the kids, and stop pretending that we are an item. It also made many things much more clear to our girls. once they knew it was happening.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DennisW said:


> I think marriage counseling will really turn into joint counseling on how we find some way to continue living together for the kids


Why would you even want to do that?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Here’s the thing, if she is rubbing up on another man and some dude is schmoozing her all up and she she is full of all those feel-good hormones, You can sit and talk about your problems for years in end and shell out 10s of thousands of dollars and it won’t mean a thing. 

You can’t resurrect a dead marriage when there is any kind of 3rd-party involvement. 

You have a 0.000000000001% chance of resurrecting a dead marriage if there’s not another man - but if she has feelings for someone else, it’s just a simple no. Ain’t happn’n. 

You trying to keep everyone in the marital home and maintaining a family life with her is pretty much like Norman Bates keeping his mummified dead mother in her rocking chair and pretending as is well. 

It may not be dealing with dead, rotting bodies. But holding on to dead, rotting marriages is just as disturbed. 

Wake up and smell the decay. 

You can live with a corpse of marriage and be a psycho. Or you can give it a proper funeral, mourn it in a healthy manner and bury it with dignity and then move in with own your own life.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Why would you even want to do that?


You'll see later posts where I'm already questioning how this works out. Maybe she'll see it there too. This is very fresh...came up in the last few weeks and to a head last night.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

DennisW said:


> You'll see later posts where I'm already questioning how this works out. Maybe she'll see it there too. This is very fresh...came up in the last few weeks and to a head last night.


well, you have a say too. You may not agree to that scenario.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> You can live with a corpse of marriage and be a psycho. Or you can give it a proper funeral, mourn it in a healthy manner and bury it with dignity and then move in with own your own life.


I have my doubts that I will be able to maintain a facade for the kids for very long. I don't think she's fully thought things thru.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

If you yourself think this would be confusing for the kids involved, why would you go along with this and be OK with this, even with your doubt? I don't understand.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

hubbyintrubby said:


> If you yourself think this would be confusing for the kids involved, why would you go along with this and be OK with this, even with your doubt? I don't understand.


We've lived pretty much this way for a decade....so that's really all they know right now. I've raised to point that we should strive to show them a healthy relationship. I want to delve into that in group counseling (which we are deferring due to Covid).


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

DennisW said:


> We've lived pretty much this way for a decade....so that's really all they know right now. I've raised to point that we should strive to show them a healthy relationship. I want to delve into that in group counseling (which we are deferring due to Covid).


The chances of you showing your kids a healthy relationship within this marriage are infinitesimally small. How long are you going allow this process to go on? You could be working on this for 5 years and miss your chance to show them a healthy relationship.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DennisW said:


> I have my doubts that I will be able to maintain a facade for the kids for very long. I don't think she's fully thought things thru.


You’re missing all of our points....

YOU need to think this through and you need to do what is best for YOU. 

This ain’t about her anymore, she has chosen her path.

Now you need to wake up and pull your head out of the sand and do what is best for you to move with your own life. 

Dennis Lives Matter here. 

Yes, you will need to come up with plans for child custody and the care and well being of the children.

But pretending all is normal and trying to create illusions that nothing is happening here is very maladaptive and dysfunctional.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> You’re missing all of our points....
> 
> YOU need to think this through and you need to do what is best for YOU.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the strong feedback. I hear you. You don't see me here saying "rah rah...this is a great idea". I'm very concerned about this and plan to discuss with my therapist.
Trying not to drop the divorce or separation card too quickly.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Look, YOU want to at least have the facade of a good marriage for the kids, but they aren't stupid. You already said that they see you disconnected (hopefully not from THEM, just your W).
You cannot work on a marriage one-sided. She clearly has given up and she WILL NOT be doing the work you want/need her to do. She may try to appease you, but it's not going to be real.

You should take the time for yourself to think this through. Would you REALLY want to "stay together for the kids" while YOU get to stay at home babysitting while she goes out to have sex with her AP?


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

jlg07 said:


> She may try to appease you, but it's not going to be real.
> You should take the time for yourself to think this through. Would you REALLY want to "stay together for the kids" while YOU get to stay at home babysitting while she goes out to have sex with her AP?


Excellent points that were already in my head.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

DennisW said:


> Excellent points that were already in my head.


And yeah, we all get it. It SUCKS big time. You WILL get through this though.

Maybe start to do the 180: 180 for Betrayed Spouses 
Start working on YOU -- continue counseling, work out, eat right, start doing hobbies YOU want to do, do a LOT with your kids -- build those relationships, etc.. This all may help you start to detach and help you accept what she is doing.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

DennisW said:


> Starting a new thread. My previous thread "How to connect with wife" is no longer relevant. It appears that some were right and that it's dead. I believe she has already had an active relationship, but she still denies it. She admitted flirting and opportunity, but messages show more. I haven't found her talking to that partner...just several references to that other partner. I don't know if there is any benefit to going further to try to prove that....other than being "right". That might do more harm than good.
> 
> I'm trying to wrap my head around what to do next until we can get into marriage counseling (defering til kids can get past covid virtual schooling)...with the goal of finding out how to move forward as a family. Obviously other options are....live together as friends, divorce, reconcile, or something else. I don't want to hear "kick her to the curb". I won't do that.
> I'm currently stuck on "why can't we try to fix the marriage we have?". To me....life sure feels a lot easier to live in the traditional constructs....a man, a wife, kids in a home...all acting as one unit.
> ...


I'm not understanding why you can do individual counseling with COVID, but can't do marriage counseling with COVID? I wouldn't wait on the marriage counseling, but to each their own.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

GC1234 said:


> I'm not understanding why you can do individual counseling with COVID, but can't do marriage counseling with COVID? I wouldn't wait on the marriage counseling, but to each their own.


Our kids are schooling from home. I don't see how we have a highly emotional counseling session and then come out of the bedroom saying "hi kids"....and the risk of them hearing. I do individual counseling in from a parking lot in my car.
And....I don't think she would do marriage counseling right now if we could. I know that's very telling.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DennisW said:


> Trying not to drop the divorce or separation card too quickly.


The part that may not be quite sinking in is she is using you like a parasite now. 

She is extracting resources and labor and comfort from you while providing you nothing in return. 

Countless WWs remain with their BHs because the BH helps maintain their lifestyle, pays bills, unclog her toilet, mows the lawn and babysits the kids while she gets all her fun and sex and excitement from the other man. 

I other words, the longer you remain with her, the more you get used and exploited and chumped. She gets resources and comfort and work from you but what you get in return is you get to launder her semen stained underwear when she comes home from her dates. 

The sooner you take yourself out of that triangle, the sooner you can get on with your life and do the things you want to do and live your life without being her errand boy while she screws other men.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

DennisW said:


> We've lived pretty much this way for a decade....so that's really all they know right now. I've raised to point that we should strive to show them a healthy relationship. I want to delve into that in group counseling (which we are deferring due to Covid).


The marriage you've been modeling for the kids has been cold and dead. They know. Kids are intuitive and they have eyes in their heads. They feel the distance, the disconnect, and I'm sure they've seen happily married couples to bring home the contrast between that and what they see or don't see at home.

At best, you'll be able to learn how to share a house with your wife. Modeling a healthy, happy, affectionate, marriage isn't going to happen if you stay tied to her.



DennisW said:


> Excellent points that were already in my head.


Well, that's how it works. Yes, you'll be with the kids while she's out with romantic partners or even hootin and hollarin with friends. And vice versa should you decide to date or go adventuring with buddies. Depending on the rules, romantic partners may also come to the house for time together while one of you is out for the evening.

This would also be true if you divorce. The difference it you'd be doing it in separate households.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

While you are still in the stage of figuring out how to proceed, it sounds like your initial plan is to live in the same house with you and your wife leading separate lives. I apologize if my assumption is incorrect. So, is that how you would like to see things play out, if possible?


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

DennisW said:


> Our kids are schooling from home. I don't see how we have a highly emotional counseling session and then come out of the bedroom saying "hi kids"....and the risk of them hearing. I do individual counseling in from a parking lot in my car.
> And....I don't think she would do marriage counseling right now if we could. I know that's very telling.


So It seems highly unlikely you will ever get any truth from here on infidelity, unless you go the full spy root, voice recorders in cars etc. and discover something on your own and even then my guess is she still lies, deflects, tells you your crazy. We have seen this exact scenario too many times around here. 

I think you are hearing pretty unanimously you need to draw a line in the sand, she needs to state either she wants to have a real marriage or not. If not there is no we live together for the kids, in the end that mostly likely does more harm than good. So her choice is 1. A full commitment to the marriage, full openness and transparency 100% effort or 2. Divorce. 

I am In the boat she is using you to maintain the facade of a happy family for the outside world, using you for security, and she will keep using you until she has fully secured your replacement. Then suddenly she isn't going to think staying together for the kids is a good idea anymore.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

Prodigal said:


> While you are still in the stage of figuring out how to proceed, it sounds like your initial plan is to live in the same house with you and your wife leading separate lives. I apologize if my assumption is incorrect. So, is that how you would like to see things play out, if possible?


That's her intention/desire for long term. Just don't see how it works without making one or both of us crazy.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

happyhusband0005 said:


> she is using you to maintain the facade of a happy family for the outside world, using you for security, and she will keep using you until she has fully secured your replacement. Then suddenly she isn't going to think staying together for the kids is a good idea anymore.


Yes to the above.

She is using you for all the reasons people have been saying. 

She will do this until some guy, whether it is this current OM or a different one, decides he’ll have her full time. 

When that happens she will literally leave in soon a time as she can get everything packed up and on to the next guy.

I have personally seen women out of the house and with the new man in the course of a weekend.

But in the mean time she is extracting your money, you labor, your security, your emotional energy and investment and your future hopes.

While you are doing the “Pick Me! Dance” she is feathering her nest with the OM(s) and preparing to step into her new life as seamlessly as possible. - all while you are still investing your time, energy and money in trying to do CPR on a dead and rotting corpse of a marriage. 

You are being used and chump here.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@DennisW , 

I think it may be time to have a sit-down with the little Mrs. and say something like: "We are married. I made promises to you and you made promises to me. I expect you to honor your promises, just as I hold myself to the standard of honoring my promises to you. What I will not do is allow us to continue living a lie when there is a third party, nor will I accept that you need time to make up your mind. Either you honor your promises to me right now or you do not. If you do, then we live as husband and wife, we share a bed and intimacy, and we share our lives. If you do not, then we do not live a lie in front of our children, we do not share a bed or intimacy at all in any way, and you will not be sharing my life. You are free to make up your mind, but my decision is made: I will only accept a faithful partner who loves ONLY me. I will no longer accept a third wheel or this limbo. You decide today."


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

If you really wanted her back, you'd need to 180 anyway and tell her directly that she changes or you leave.... so you might as well start the 180. It will be good for you if it does or doesn't workout with her, so it is a win-win.

Stop chasing, focus on yourself, tell her you're the one who is done.

If she really doesn't want it to end, she'd then be ready to actually talk. Right now she doesn't believe you have the balls to stand up for yourself.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DennisW said:


> Thanks. I understand that. Right now....she's not even willing to go there and have that discussion. In her eyes, she was "done" years ago and has been hanging on for the kids and supposedly NOT having an extra-marital relationship out of respect for me. Whether that's true or not.....I'm not sure I'll find the real truth right now. I expect that when we eventually do get to marriage counseling that there WILL be more things piled on that she needs to admit to.


I am REALLY sorry that it has come to this for you...!!

I would say that any "truth" about the extra-marital relationship is irrelevant, because your marriage was most likely over (and unsalvageable) before anything actually happened, if it did. It sounds now like she is trying to create an "open-marriage" situation without calling it that. For some couples, that's a great option and fulfills their needs - for you, it WON'T. So you need to start setting some timelines and boundaries around what you want in YOUR life and your relationship as co-parent with your EX-wife. 

Don't make decisions based on hoping to win her back - you aren't going to. Make decisions based on what is best for YOU, and move forward without considering HER happiness -- that's HER responsibility now. You have a responsibility only to your kids and YOURSELF. Be kind and respectful, but put YOUR needs before her. That's how to move forward and begin to accept that your relationship is over.


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## DennisW (Nov 17, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> It sounds now like she is trying to create an "open-marriage" situation without calling it that. For some couples, that's a great option and fulfills their needs - for you, it WON'T. So you need to start setting some timelines and boundaries around what you want in YOUR life and your relationship as co-parent with your EX-wife.


Yes....she asked said she felt we needed an open marriage back in May which I clearly stated I wasn't ok with....instead we should get counseling.
I'll start working on my 180 behavior/myself.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Thank you for clarifying. Sounds like your wife wants to keep you around for the financial security, but wants the freedom to screw other guys. Around these parts, we refer to someone like your wife as a "cake eater."


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

*"I'm currently stuck on "why can't we try to fix the marriage we have?". To me....life sure feels a lot easier to live in the traditional constructs....a man, a wife, kids in a home...all acting as one unit."

Sounds like she wants living in a make-believe world, with secret freedom (open marriage)?*

What is the purpose of this? I don't know many folks that have been successful trying the 'staying together for the kids' gambit'. In fact, I know none. It is not just about EASY. Misery wins out and better situations are found. If your marriage has been in this state for 10 years or so, you recognize the truth. It is too late to resurrect this from the dead. This would not be jumping into separation or divorce (10 years).

As has been said--repeatedly--both have to be willing and eager to do the work. Divorce does not mean you are a failure, but that the marriage relationship is over. Finding a counselor who supports your proposal will be unusual. Some Christian counselors will agree, but to the detriment of human emotions and being.

This is sad. She wants out/different/more. Be the strong one--maybe that would have helped sooner. Care enough to let her go and to be open with your kids, and friends, not your marriage


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She would get what she wants — freedom to do whatever — but would seeing your children every day make dealing with that okay for you? Sounds like you’re still hoping she’ll change her mind and pick you but that’s unlikely.


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## jin (Sep 9, 2014)

DennisW said:


> Yes....she asked said she felt we needed an open marriage back in May which I clearly stated I wasn't ok with....instead we should get counseling.
> I'll start working on my 180 behavior/myself.


If you want to stay together for the kids that is probably the only viable option.

She has checked out of the marriage and you can't get that back. Once a woman loses respect for you it's gone and its not coming back.

It's not a bad idea and many do make this work. The stress of trying to be man and wife is gone and you can just work on being friends. You can both pursue your own romances and find some happiness and have a somewhat functional family. 

I'm not recommending this btw. Just saying that its the only viable way to stay together for the sake of remaining a family unit kids house etc.

If you are not okay with an open marriage then your options are stay together and be miserable knowing your wife could be cheating or get a divorce.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

I've read all of your comments in both threads and you haven't provided direct points on some basic bio factors. You reference that she has access to an inheritance which could sustain her, going back to college, etc. so this hints that she is a SAHM. There is some mention of past infidelity but that's not playing a central theme in your comments here. This is leaving a very murky picture for readers here and for you, the mystery of what is going on in her life, leaves you in the same murky waters. Clarity is called for.

Find out what, exactly, is going on in her life. Is there an OM? Find out. Use the usual tactics that are discussed here. Your intent in this post is to salvage something of your relationship. As others have pointed out this is going to be a Herculean task, but it's going to be impossible if what animates your wife is another relationship. If you're still committed to trying to save something in your marriage, then blow up her outside world. Put pressure on her. Expose her. Blow up the OM's world.

Make your wife get a job. Separate finances. Follow the advice here, but you can also walk on parallel tracks. It may take time to blow up her world, start on that. Meanwhile, dry up her life of convenience. Make her get a job, guard the finances, restrict her access to cash. Start planting the seed that 50/50 custody means mom is not going to be seeing her children every day and will have to live without them every second week.

Right now you are the only one who is suffering. Start sharing that pain, make her feel her own pain.

Do something other than betting the house on counseling. Hedge that bet. Start looking at divorce because that's almost a certainty. Start getting your head right. Your wife is no longer your ally.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I was never able to find evidence of an affair, but several years ago when the shyte was hitting the fan in our marriage and she was treating me horribly and was madder than a hornet at me for trying to bring our issues to the table to address, I broke my wife’s steadfast reluctance to talk to me by doing the exact opposite of what you are doing - 

- I gave her a taste of single parenthood.

I packed up some stuff while she was at work and when she got home I told her what the kids did during the day and then I left. I didn’t tell her where I was going or what I was doing or who I was with. I told her if something happened to a kid to txt me otherwise I wouldn’t be taking her calls or returning txts. 

She tried calling and txting but I was on “Me Time.” 

Nor did I call or talk to the kids. 

I was off the grid. We were separated and it was her custodial night and I was a free, single man and could do as I pleased.

Now, unbeknownst to her, what I did was got a local motel room, hung out in the hotel hot tub for awhile, then sprawled out on the bed and watched mindless tv shows for the evening and then got about 10 hours of glorious, undisturbed sleep. 

But she didn’t/doesn’t know that. For all she knows I was dancing the night away with hot chicks or banging nasty prostitutes. I didn’t/don’t care what she thought. Wives have a right to know their husbands whereabouts and what he’s doing, but if she didn’t want to be with me, then she had no entitlement to my whereabouts.

The next day I called her and told her it was my night with the kids and when I got home she had exactly five minutes to give me a report on the kids and then exit the premises and leave us alone for the night - it was MY custodial night. 

When I got home, I told her her time was up and that it was my night with the kids. She was fuming mad but did leave.

Right on time at bedtime she started calling wanting to talk to the kids. 

I said no and didn’t let her talk to them - it was my night. I told her if she came to the house I would bolt the doors and not let her in.
She threatened to call the cops. I said I couldn’t stop her from calling them but that she would be a million times more embarrassed and humiliated about about having cop cars at our house in front of the kids and neighbors than what I would be. 

She was livid, but I was steadfast and told her if she didn’t want to be with me anymore that was her prerogative but that this is what shared custody would be like and if she wanted to be single that she might as well start now. 

Make no mistake, she HATED ME in that moment and was perhaps the most angry she had ever been in her life.

But the next evening she had her tail between her legs and was ready to talk and ready to go in to MC. 

You are making this easy for her.

You are making it comfortable for her to have a home and family life but still screw other guys like a single woman. 

If she wants to have the sex life of a single woman, then don’t provide the home and family life of a married woman.

Make her an actual single woman.

A single woman that has to get a job.

A single woman that can only have access to her kids on specified days.

A single woman that has to hire a babysitter if she wants to go on a date or out with friends. 

A single woman that has to change her own flats, unclog her own toilet and kill her own spiders. 

Maybe she will dig it and be gone.

But if she is gone, then you can live your own life, hang with your own buddies, date and have the kids to yourself on your custodial days and have the house to yourself to watch tv in your underwear and eat greasy hamburgers and not clean up after yourself on your noncustodial days.

If she wants to screw around like a single woman, then let her be single and you be a single man.


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## shortbus (Jul 25, 2017)

I don't give too much advice, mainly, because no one takes it.
You've already had a bunch, but here you sit, providing a nice cushion for your wife.
You've gotten a lot of good advice from old shirt, I won't rehash it.
So, just to get my 2 cents in, and you don't need to reply to me, just internalize it.

Your wife gets to dine on cake, must be sweet.
You, get to dine on **** sandwich. Might I add, can't get enough mustard for that either.
At least you're setting a good example for your kids, of what NOT TO DO. Hope they'll get it.

You don't need therapy, you're living in hell and will only deteriorate from here. This is from living under the hell of self enforced limbo. 

You can get yourself out of this, by divorcing her. Once you make this decision, you will heal. Until then, your mental state will only deteriorate.

So dear readers, let's switch the sexes. Would anyone suggest to some poor woman to put up with what you have. Didn't think so.

So, what advice would you give to your son or daughter, if, after they married, they found themselves in your shoes.

I'm sorry for your situation, I wish you and your children the best going forward.
But if you were my son, I'd slap you in the back of the head and offer to pay your divorce lawyer's retainer.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Let me sum all this up in one sentence - 

By staying with her you are making her life easier and more comfortable while she is making you miserable and tormented.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Affaircare said:


> @DennisW ,
> 
> I think it may be time to have a sit-down with the little Mrs. and say something like: "We are married. I made promises to you and you made promises to me. I expect you to honor your promises, just as I hold myself to the standard of honoring my promises to you. What I will not do is allow us to continue living a lie when there is a third party, nor will I accept that you need time to make up your mind. Either you honor your promises to me right now or you do not. If you do, then we live as husband and wife, we share a bed and intimacy, and we share our lives. If you do not, then we do not live a lie in front of our children, we do not share a bed or intimacy at all in any way, and you will not be sharing my life. You are free to make up your mind, but my decision is made: I will only accept a faithful partner who loves ONLY me. I will no longer accept a third wheel or this limbo. You decide today."


This. 

How can she respect you when you won't respect yourself?

Is one of your children a son? What he sees modeled from you becomes his foundation for what he allows in his intimate relationships.

Love yourself enough to refuse to tolerate the intolerable. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Affaircare said:


> @DennisW ,
> 
> I think it may be time to have a sit-down with the little Mrs. and say something like: "We are married. I made promises to you and you made promises to me. I expect you to honor your promises, just as I hold myself to the standard of honoring my promises to you. What I will not do is allow us to continue living a lie when there is a third party, nor will I accept that you need time to make up your mind. Either you honor your promises to me right now or you do not. If you do, then we live as husband and wife, we share a bed and intimacy, and we share our lives. If you do not, then we do not live a lie in front of our children, we do not share a bed or intimacy at all in any way, and you will not be sharing my life. You are free to make up your mind, but my decision is made: I will only accept a faithful partner who loves ONLY me. I will no longer accept a third wheel or this limbo. *You decide today.*"


This was great advice up until the last tiny sentence. It still leaves the ball in her court. He needs to take back the power. It's clear that she's already made her decision, and it wasn't to choose him. He needs to start acting on THAT.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

DennisW said:


> Our kids are schooling from home. I don't see how we have a highly emotional counseling session and then come out of the bedroom saying "hi kids"....and the risk of them hearing. I do individual counseling in from a parking lot in my car.
> And....I don't think she would do marriage counseling right now if we could. I know that's very telling.


Oh, ok that makes sense. Well, never assume she wouldn't. You may want to ask her about if she would consider it in the future. I think when you ask, THAT would be very telling.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

DennisW said:


> Thanks ladies. I think marriage counseling will really turn into joint counseling on how we find some way to continue living together for the kids (I have my doubts on how that plays out...and she doesn't have any good answers). I don't have high expectations on how that feels.


or she'll use the opportunity to try to blame you for everything, so she can pin the marriage failure on you.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

dennis hire a PI and have them discover what she is doing then once you gather the evidence you will in a better position to confront her. if you really want to make the point home gather the evidence put it in a box under the tree and give it too her on christmas to show her what a crappy person she is and the damage she has done to the family and you.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

OP, I've been in your situation for nearly 2 years now. No affair, but mental illness. Doesn't work and we don't even have kids in the house any more. It's destroying me. And like me, you are still secretly hoping she'll change her mind and go back to you. But she won't. She's done. Take time to organise your new life, but don't delude yourself.


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

“ how do you accept that a relationship is dead?”

When all hope is gone. Hope is a powerful thing and sometimes it dies a very slow painful death.


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

Keep going to counseling for yourself and do things for yourself. Now with covid that might be difficult to get out with friends, etc... Spend quality time with your kids, cook, etc... Marriage counseling will help ONLY if both parties are participating. She may not want to work on it.. 

My spouse refused any help at all. We are still together BUT pretty much lead separate lives. That's what my therapist mentioned-- either divorce or stay together and lead separate lives. It's pretty much the same but kids are teens are doing more on their own.. I just got back from visiting my sister for 2-weeks. I know it's covid but it was needed due to her health. I cook and take care of our house, he does the outside stuff or whatever else needs to get done.. So I guess it looks as thou we are a 'family'.. We don't get along but neither of us are excited about living alone.. Every once in awhile we will have a loud fight. If kids are home, they say knock it off, if they aren't- he just yells and gets mad. I drink wine then do online shopping..


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> The part that may not be quite sinking in is she is using you like a parasite now.
> 
> She is extracting resources and labor and comfort from you while providing you nothing in return.
> 
> ...


The longer you are with her the longer the allimony payments if they are in your state.


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## Phoenix68 (Dec 3, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Why would you even want to do that?


Agree
This is not, never for anybody a good solution.
Much better, go your on ways and parent together.
That works for me (us) really well.
But you have to be on good terms, ans since you even contemplate to stay together for the sake of the children, you are.


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