# Is it too late??



## Helpmee (Jul 6, 2011)

Here's a quick summary. My wife is a very emotional person. I have not traditionally been. We have been married for 11 years and have 3 young kids. I have not been the emotional partner that she has needed throughout our relationship. I have had pretty deep intimacy problems that I now realize need to be fixed if I am to be truly happy. I have been working on opening up to people and have made major strides in the last several months. It feels good. The problem I have is that my wife is unable to trust me with her heart. Says the years of me not being there have hurt so much that she cannot allow me another chance. She says she is "empty" inside and does not have the will or desire to try to fix our marriage. I love my wife more than anything and want to save our marriage and family. She now acts as though she hates me and spins everything that comes out of my mouth to the most negative interpretation imagineable. She is generally the nicest and most considerate person you have ever met. I am unbelievably frustrated. What should I do????


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## Helpmee (Jul 6, 2011)

Sorry, incidentally, my wife is in her upper 30's and I really feel that her behavior may be the result of a midlife crisis. She speaks in a matter of fact tone and minimizes anything that seems contrary to her current beliefs. We have each been using the same IC and MC and she also says that she is not going back to her because "she has turned on her to".


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Helpmee said:


> She now acts as though she hates me and spins everything that comes out of my mouth to the most negative interpretation imagineable.


That is a person very, very checked out of the marriage. You musty have been about as "emotionally unavailable" as one could be (or more?) to her...

...serious question: do you think she's engaged in an affair? This would be the treatment one might expect from someone who is because they are hurt or angry with their spouse... and the refusal to continue MC would fit right in. She doesn't want the marriage 'fixed' because she's getting her needs met elsewhere - emotionally and/or otherwise.

Only advice I can give is that actions speak much louder than any words. I'd convey what you plan to do that is different, and then show her every single day, and nicely, genlty remind her from time to time about how much effort and result you are putting out. Never step into the trap of arguing about it being too little too late; only convey a positive/improving/better future.... good luck.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Hey you are not alone, just read around here. It seems that many women at around the 10 year mark all of sudden, after making several babies, discover that their husbands are not Dr. Phil. 

Unfortunately, we now livie in a society in which women are encouraged and entitled to being the recipient of an ongoing fairy tale, with zero repercussions for checking out of a marriage.

We need to bring back shame. 

I wish you luck, but do not let her rewrite history on you nor be her doormat. I'm pretty sure you didn't rape her when you made the kids. Don't be a beta apology boy. Do take an interest in trying to impove things if she is willing to try as well.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Welcome to the club. I'm 10 months in with pretty much the same senario. I do not agree with Locard. You can't control what she does/says/etc. Work on you, take care of the kids, get into marriage counseling. You are going to have to swallow some pride, but it does get better. 1-2 year process.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Not to be argumentative, but what exactly do you not agree with?

Should he be a doormat, let her rewrite history, beg her for forgiveness ? Good luck with that! No, he can't control her or she wouldn't be doing these things. Counseling would be great.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

> Not to be argumentative, but what exactly do you not agree with?
> 
> Should he be a doormat, let her rewrite history, beg her for forgiveness ? Good luck with that! No, he can't control her or she wouldn't be doing these things. Counseling would be great.


The reason I don't agree with you is the OP said he was emotionally unavailable to his wife which is EXACTLY what I was. This is not a beta trait. So, what you are telling him to do in your own interpretation is to be more alpha. Pointing the fingers and holding someone's feet to the fire solves nothing. Your definition of not being a doormat and not "letting" her rewrite history is about feeding your own desires and selfishness. You might be very sincere in what you believe, but I believe you are sincerely wrong. She has her own point of view and to underestimate her pain by not understanding that point of view you doom the relationship. Ultimately, you will run into the same thing later in life with another woman.

This isn't about being a doormat. Your point of view and her point of view are on different sides of the planet right now. The truth lies in the middle. The ability to humble yourself, acknowledge that you have faults, die to your own selfish desires, and become the man you were created to be is what is going to heal this. The first 6-8 months will be brutal. It will seem that you are getting the "doormat" treatment. But, if you don't fall to pride, learn how to make deep emmotional connection with others, your wife will eventually follow. She has anger and resentment that will have to be flushed. This take enormous patience and time. If you try to be rigid with her, you will push her away. 

Not trying to say that this should be the way in every situation. Just when dealing with anger and resentment the wife does feel empty and loses her ability to really try. Truth is, she has been trying for a long time and has run out of gas. Humility is the way back and it is a LONG road. 

Of course, this is only what I see and have experienced after looking at multiple situations of this type. I could be wrong, but almost every situation where the man goes through a humbling transformation and sticks it out turns out ok when dealing with this specific problem.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

OK, there is another perspective.

I still disagree 100%

I would batten down the hatches. If he has gone to counseling and she refuses he is in for a rough ride. I would try to work with her, like I said, but if you go at this from the perspective of you being completely wrong than you will most likely just be miserable, and still have nothing to show for it. 

People have a lot of defintions of alpha and beta. Ultimately this issue is likely MUCH more hers than his and I am not saying to be an a** nor be aloof. 

He does not have to prostrate himself for her.


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## Helpmee (Jul 6, 2011)

Thank you very much for the feedback. I am trying to understand this demon that has inhabited the body of my wife. I am absolutely baffled at the level of disdain that she views me with. I have already been a doormat for the past several months. I have apologized profusely and have admitted everything that I can think of and have made legitimate efforts and progress and to fix what I have been doing wrong for my entire life. I find tremedous comfort in that. I am just baffled that my wife cannot see and begin to trust those changes. I am becoming exactly what she wants and what she has needed because I now realize it's importance to make myself a better person. I just hope her apparent hate of me subsides and she can start to even consider reconciliation. As of now, any mention of it from anyone means they are against her and she simply alienates them. This is a brutal experience. All I can think of to do at this point is give her some space and try to be the man that I am and hope that she starts to recognize and appreciate it. I fear that this may never happen, and if it does, it may be too late to save our wonderful family. I would really appreciate any ideas for helping her snap out of this but from what I have read, there doesn't seem to be a lot of hope that any outside influence on her will be helpful. Has anyone been to Retrovaille? Our counselor has suggested it several times. Not sure it my wife would even entertain the idea at this point.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

Check for an affair, first. As noted in an earlier post, this is behaviour that is typical of that.

Second, you can't control her, and the more you do things to get her to "snap out of it", the more resentment it will breed. You can focus on being a good man, and having a good life (which includes your own things, for you), but I'd stop the apologies and stop beating yourself up. It's very possible that you haven't done anything wrong. She just may be going through something, or just is mourning the loss of her romantic ideal.

Really, what the hell does "emotionally unavailable" mean? Did you listen to her when she spoke? Did you support her in her various hopes and dreams? 

I'd just back way off, allow her to come to you, and then focus on creating YOUR OWN life. When women get to this point, the men usually come on strong trying to "fix" and make up for past mistakes, and it just makes things worse.

Read about walk away wives. 

Oh, and check for an affair. It's a real possibility.


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

I imagine she is feeling angry that it has taken so long and that you waited until it came down to brass tacks to do anything to change it. She probably doesn't trust that it is real. Just keep improving and being a better person and maybe she'll come around. If not...then you'll be a better person for someone else out there.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

> I would try to work with her, like I said, but if you go at this from the perspective of you being completely wrong than you will most likely just be miserable, and still have nothing to show for it.


I would not try to work with her. Work on yourself. Take care of the kids. Do not push anything in terms of relationship. She has a closed spirit and it takes true Godly humbleness and unselflessness to reopen it. Until she starts to soften, working with her is the equivalent of pushing her out the door. Nothing to show for it? You can change and become a really awesome guy worthy of everything a woman's confiding love lays at your feet.



> I imagine she is feeling angry that it has taken so long and that you waited until it came down to brass tacks to do anything to change it. She probably doesn't trust that it is real. Just keep improving and being a better person and maybe she'll come around. If not...then you'll be a better person for someone else out there.


Here you go. She has to see it. It has taken my wife 10 months to soften. Then the change starts to come. Pretty cool stuff. It's hell getting there, though. Oh yeah, our changes have nothing to do with therapy. Our therapist has been amazing, but just in getting me to see how to handle myself and things. You are the leader. Lead her through servant leadership. Stop talking about your relationship. Stop pushing anything. Work to change your heart and flush your selfishness. A man is only a failure when he starts to blame others for his circumstances. Good luck.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

I guess I'm puzzled. Don't work with her, but be emotionally available???? Whatever.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

When I say don't work with her, I mean don't pursue her. Give her space. Don't talk about "the relationship". When she has something bothering her, listen. Be there for her in the capacity she needs right now. As she trusts you with that, she gradually trusts you with more. If you focus on your current situation, you will be frustrated. If you read into her current behavior, you will get angry/frustrated/resentful. Pull back. 

Be a friend and stop trying to get her to do what you want her to do. It's controlling, manipulative, and desperate. Very unappealing to a hurting woman. Just be a consistent man. Work on yourself, find out why you do the things you do, be happy with you and what you are doing to become a better man. The rest is just details. Like I said, it's a hard path and most men FAIL.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

That makes it more clear. Of course I would argue that likely the only one failing here is his wife. Best of luck to both of you, hopefully it will turn around. 

I do fear when the OP mentions mid life crisis. If this goes full blown, like I said, batten down the hatches.


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## wemogirl (May 31, 2011)

stillme4you said:


> I imagine she is feeling angry that it has taken so long and that you waited until it came down to brass tacks to do anything to change it. She probably doesn't trust that it is real. Just keep improving and being a better person and maybe she'll come around. If not...then you'll be a better person for someone else out there.


:iagree: Her emotional needs have gone unmet for 10+ years. It's going to take more than a few months of good behavior for her to get over the pain and let go of the resentment she's built up over that time. Keep doing what you're doing and in the end, you'll know you really did change and did what you could to save the relationship.


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## Breeann (Jul 6, 2011)

I seriously would find out if she's cheating. My best friend was married for 20 yrs with 2 small children and his wife acted the same way. She claimes he was verbally abusive to her and which he did have a temper, but cheating wasn't the answer. He was so in love with her and when the marriage started going downhill they joined MC that lasted 2 yrs. The entire time he was changing she was still cheating. He would cry on my shoulder saying he doesn't know if he can live without her. They were high school sweethearts and had alot of history between them. She kept him around the 3 yrs she was cheating bc he took care of the kids while she went out with "girlfriends". I told him time and time again she had another man, but he refused to believe it until 1 day he got that phone call from the other guys wife. That's all it took got a divorce asap and after the guy dumped her she wanted him back bc she realized he was good to her and the kids. Yea right doesn't happen like that. 3 yrs later I married him and he's the best! kinda glad she let him go but I hated to see him go through all that pain of trying to hold his family together. So I can understand what you are feeling by seeing what my husband went through. On my own experience if she's feel out of love with you then it's going to be really hard to get her back. My ex from an 8 yr marriage did the same to me, but I was done. He had cheated on me for the last time. I put up with that for 3 yrs after telling him I was going to leave him he then wanted to change but it was too late. Hated to get a divorce bc I had 2 kids and wanted my kids to have their dad around. Good luck to you and hope for the best


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## Helpmee (Jul 6, 2011)

Thanks again everyone. I am sure she is not having an affair. She is wrapped up in the thought that she sees no hope in being happy with me. I think she may be having an "affair" with the idea of a fresh start. She is starting to realize just how painful a divorce can be. She has been pretty naive on that front up until now. She is carrying tremendous guilt because she knows that I want nothing more than to try to work this out and she just says she doesn't have it in her. She wonders how she will be able to explain that to our kids in the future. I have no idea how to answer that one for her. I am working on the infamous 180 and am working on myself as much as possible. I am worried that as we work through this difficult time that she might meet someone else though, but I don't know what to do about that. I am trying to control what I can control and hope she comes around. Seems pretty bleak right now though. I feel so sad for my kids. Any other suggestions out there?????


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

What happened to open your eyes, to see that you were not there emotionally for her?


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## Helpmee (Jul 6, 2011)

We had a friend die unexpectedly last year. Made me realize that I wasn't happy with who I was and also that my wife wasn't happy either. I had serious intimacy issues and they contributed to our issues. I have made major strides but she can't seem to believe it. I think the death was a trigger for her too; except she checked out of the marriage and I checked into it.


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## Helpmee (Jul 6, 2011)

I am new to this whole jealousy thing. How do you cope with it? My wife who is determined to get divorced goes out with friends and I worry incessantly that she will meet someone else. She is so emotionally vulnerable right now that it wouldn't take much for a guy to impress her. How do I deal with the thoughts???? I am trying to reinvent myself and impress her enough that she will again fall in love with me but this is driving me insane!!!


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

There is nothing you can do about her potentially meeting someone else. Just work on being a better person...read books on it, do some research. If you are concentrating all your attention on the thought of losing her you cannot do all these things to improve yourself. 

You may just have to accept the fact, though, that you two may not be meant to stay together. Maybe you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Maybe somebody else out there would be more attuned to your personality and wants and needs, and you to theirs. Improving yourself to where you can step outside of yourself and like what you see is fine...but if you are trying to twist yourself into a pretzel just to appeal to her that is not okay because eventually you will wear yourself out. Maybe there isn't anything critically WRONG with you, but you are just WRONG for each other. Contemplate this side of the equation as well...not just on the fact that you want to keep her. 

Awhile ago my husband got onto me for something I didn't think I was doing wrong, and I just couldn't fathom why he felt that way about me. It wasn't the first time he made me feel like I, myself, was just wrong...or that everything about me was not right and needed work. But I didn't feel like I was that bad of a person. I finally got tired and very soberly told him that maybe I just wasn't the person for him anymore, maybe someone else could be and would make him happy, and that if he wanted to - I loved him enough that I would let him go - so he could find that. I meant it too. Because I love him enough to just want him to be happy, and I discovered an unselfishness in me to not want to just hold onto him because I "wanted" him. It had nothing to do with wanting to find someone else for myself, either...because I already know it would take a long long time for my grieving to subside enough to even consider that. I knew it would be extremely painful for me. But I love him enough to let him go if I can no longer make him happy. 

Consider this as well.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Ok. I'll step in:

Question: how long have you been in MC/IC?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Helpmee (Jul 6, 2011)

Still, that's a very sobering thought but you may be right. The problem I have though is that I am making major changes for myself and I truly believe they are changes that would make our marriage very fulfilling for my W and our kids. She just can't seem to trust me again.

Dedicated, she has been in IC for almost a year, me about 6 months. We have only been to 2 MC sessions a few months ago. She won't entertain MC at this point, just wants out, now. I keep thinking she will have an epiphany.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Keep trying, but be careful about "trust". You may have not been as emotionally available as she wanteds, whatever the **** that means, but in no way does it seem you violated "trust".


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Well. 2 sessions in MC is nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Helpmee (Jul 6, 2011)

Locard, thanks. I guess the trust I refer too is her ability to trust me with her heart again. She is deeply hurt by my emotional absense.

Dedicated, I completely agree. The problem I have is that any mention of MC now irritates her. Tells me I need to accept it's over. I tell her I have. I have not mentioned MC in 2-3 weeks. She has calmed down considerably. We are conversing in a cordial manner lately. Even laughing together at some things. She does still regularly bring up the D though......

I do need help with one issue. Working 180 and actually think I'm doing a good job at it. The problem I have is that she regularly wants to talk about the D. Division of assets, what to do with the house, what and when to talk to the kids. What is a good response to these inquiries? I seem to annoy her by saying that "I don't want to talk about it". Any suggestions?


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

On one hand, you have to let her go. On the other hand, you have got to find peace within yourself. It's ok to talk about the divorce. Start the process. 

Pick up "Winning your wife back before it's too late." by Gary Smalley. Bury yourself in this book. It will help immensely.


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## Helpmee (Jul 6, 2011)

Just bought the book.

Another question. What about my family? I'm doing the 180. Should I ask them to back off her too or let them do what comes naturally to them, try to reason, talk about the kids, etc.??????


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Helpmee said:


> Just bought the book.
> 
> Another question. What about my family? I'm doing the 180. Should I ask them to back off her too or let them do what comes naturally to them, try to reason, talk about the kids, etc.??????


She needs no pressure from anyone. Chill. Let it all ride. The book is going to help you really begin to develop you. That is your way back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## miss smiley (May 3, 2011)

I was just wondering if there has been any development in your situation. I am the wife in your situation. I have been married for 14 years and have always felt that there was something missing in our relationship. I kept a journal documenting my thoughts and when I couldn't understand why I was unhappy in my marriage, decided to go to IC to find out what was wrong with me. Turns out my husband is emotionally unavailable, as in, he just can't communicate his feelings. My years of trying to build intimacy had failed and I got use to seeking connection with others (friends, not an affair). It reached a pt where i ran out of gas. He now sees his own IC and my IC turned into "our" MC which pretty much discusses how his sessions are going. I honestly don't see any change in him. I wonder if he's just going to IC to show he's making an effort. I haven't scheduled another MC as our last one ended with a sad note and he hasn't brought it up either. Just wondering if anything may have turned around for you? I honestly think it's over for me and have told him he really should just focus on making himself happy and not trying to "fix" us as the more he tries, the more I feel like withdrawing. Weird, huh?


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