# Is a complete turnaround possible?!?



## DoneAndDoner (Jan 27, 2018)

This is a long one, but I just don't know what to think about my husband's complete turnaround and just want people to weigh in.

You can read more details on my other posts, but my quick back story is that I had been planning on filing for divorce from my abusive husband by the beginning of summer without having discussed any of this with him. We have been together for 11 years, married for 8, and have two kids. We do not communicate at all, even finding discussion of logistics around the kids difficult and any intimacy we shared was basically to create our children (his choice, not mine). Why I married him to begin with is a whole other post...

About a month ago, out of nowhere, my husband very calmly asked me if I was planning on leaving him, because he said he had a feeling that I was. I said I had been thinking about separation and what that could look like, but not quite planning on it, because I was too scared to admit it to him in that moment. We managed to talk calmly for about an hour and acknowledged that we were both still in the marriage for the kids, that neither of us was harboring much anger any more, and that for the time being, we would continue to see how things go. I should have just started a conversation about divorce but instinctively was too scared of him to say anything.

In the following weeks, my husband approached me several times to talk more about our marriage. He said he wanted to communicate more and salvage the marriage, that he had been a bad husband and father and now wants to be actively engaged in these two relationships, and that if we could not save the marriage, that he would be able to tell the kids that we did everything possible to try. He confronted me about a number of things that have always been difficult to talk about and he seemed at peace with them. I asked him where this was all coming from, and he said it was something he had been working on for years but hadn't talked to me about. And just like that, he transformed into a completely different person overnight. Now he is warm and kind, engages me in conversation constantly, considers my opinions, and has taken on half of the housework and child-rearing. 

Unfortunately, I don't buy this new behavior. I don't believe someone can transform like that overnight. On top of that, I am no longer attracted to him romantically. I love him as I would family, but no longer as a partner. In the last few weeks, I have paid attention to his behavior outside of our marriage and have noticed that he still carries a tremendous amount of anger towards others. For example, having severe road rage or expressing his disgust with others for minor things or things outside of their control. I would think that if he had genuinely changed, he'd have compassion for everyone, not just me. What I suspect is that he got scared that I had thought through some divorce planning and is using these tactics to reel me back in. This is how he behaved at the beginning of our relationship, but with every milestone, started to show his true self. And I believe that if I stay in this marriage, he will revert to the abusive person he has been for all these years.

Am I wrong to think this? Is it possible for someone to change like that, and I'm just so conditioned to fear him that I refused to believe it? I honestly don't know what to think or do. My gut still tells me to leave, but if there is any hope in this, I don't want to turn my back on it.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

while it is possible, it typically comes with an overall change. as in, it would show up in all aspects of his life. in my own case, i had a moment where my whole personality changed nearly overnight, and that was what it was like. 

we have no way of knowing if he really has changed... if he really is serious about permanent change, it will bother him when he reverts back to old behavior, or even emotions. for instance, you would likely hear him express a lot of irritation for getting angry when he really doesnt want to . he will say things like "WHY does this tick me off so much? i dont even know why this bothers me!".

if he is only doing it as a control tactic, then you wont see any difference in the way he thinks about things and reacts to anything outside you. 

plus, if you go against his wishes, he will actively escalate attempts to control you, even if he uses tactics other than anger and abuse.


----------



## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Trust your gut.

Even my abusive father during his eureka moments was able to demonstrate a change in his mindset by treating friends/extended family and us differently. He'd put all us kids and my moms to sit and apologise for everything, promise he would change and even went to counseling. Psht what BS. That never lasted more than 6 months.


----------



## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

Yes, a complete turnaround is possible, but I don't believe that is what has happened with your husband. He's simply shifted his targets in order to get or keep what he wants. This means he is entirely capable of controlling himself and simply chooses when to let loose and upon whom to let loose. It also means that your instinct is likely correct and he will revert to his old ways, and probably worse, after he feels like he has "won".

My advice would be to seize this opportunity of his good behavior to get your ducks in a row, find a safe place to go and take your kids, see an attorney if you haven't already to get the divorce papers in order, and get out BEFORE you tell him you're leaving (have left). Someone like your husband is more likely to hurt or kill you and/or the children, especially if he feels he was duped into believing that the marriage was being restored by his [fake] good behavior.

Time is of the essence here, because he is only going to be on good behavior for so long. It's time to make a decision and act swiftly in order to protect yourself and your children.


----------



## Just another (Feb 21, 2018)

I think it is possible to turnaround, but if it was "real" I think you would see it in all aspects of his life.


----------



## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

DoneAndDoner said:


> I have paid attention to his behavior outside of our marriage and have noticed that he still carries a tremendous amount of anger towards others.
> 
> *For example, having severe road rage or expressing his disgust with others for minor things or things outside of their control. I would think that if he had genuinely changed, he'd have compassion for everyone, not just me.*


I understand you have deep reservations. I have an honest question though.

The bolded part, why does that matter? 

To be quite honest, there are many many people on this planet that do not even come close of deserving compassion, hence why I ask.


----------



## DoneAndDoner (Jan 27, 2018)

Thanks, everyone, for the input. I feel not so crazed after reading your responses.
@As'laDain: you make a good point about how he might respond if he was actually make an overall change. I will look for newly adopted behavior applied to all aspects of his life in addition to where it's lacking.
@Magnesium: thank you for the reminder about capitalizing on this time. I started lining up my ducks when I was planning to leave, so I feel like I don't have that much more work to do. I am nervous about his response, but it's no better than being paralyzed by fear.
@Windwalker: I think for the reasons that many have mentioned on here, if there was a genuine change in behavior, I would see it across the board, not just at me. With the example of road rage, my husband's reactions still seem severe, in my opinion. He stares down other drivers and races around them to cut them off to prove a point, and he does this with the kids in the car. I can understand voicing irritation, but acting on it is still a red flag to me. That's just one example. There are others that I find concerning, as indication that his new behavior is just a ploy.


----------



## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

From your description in this case NO!
He just does not want you to leave.!!
Trust your gut instinct!!


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

DoneAndDoner said:


> This is a long one, but I just don't know what to think about my husband's complete turnaround and just want people to weigh in.
> 
> You can read more details on my other posts, but my quick back story is that I had been planning on filing for divorce from my abusive husband by the beginning of summer without having discussed any of this with him. We have been together for 11 years, married for 8, and have two kids. We do not communicate at all, even finding discussion of logistics around the kids difficult and any intimacy we shared was basically to create our children (his choice, not mine). Why I married him to begin with is a whole other post...
> 
> ...



Believe it sister. I'm living proof that one can transform overnight. I was cruising through the marriage providing and being a good dad. I was on a mission. As far as a husband...I WAS NOTHING SHORT OF AWFUL. The poster child of how NOT to be a H. One day I happened upon this site and others like it. I noticed a reoccurring theme. Specifically where infidelity was concerned. Lack of attention given to each other. Just like that...I changed over night. My W of 20 years stayed the course and waited for me to GET IT. I finally got it. My W deserved nothing less. It was time for me to recognize the wonderful person my W is and do my very best in correcting all the wrong from the past years. The wrong way of being a H that is. 

Sounds to me your H just GOT IT. 

As far as staying this way....my complete change was 4 years ago. Today the change has stayed. My W reciprocates in return with nurturing and fostering the marriage. Give you H a chance because it appears he has finally figured out the what I call the triangle. Husband, father and provider. Got to be all three for it to work and work well. A marriage can limp along on two as you know. Add all three and life can be very wonderful. 

To add...I have road rage. I am allowed to express anger and so is your H. However, as I'm getting older...I more so don't care about much the things that used to anger me. I work on it and still a work in progress for some things. Overall, the new improved me does shine through. My W notices.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

DoneAndDoner said:


> @Windwalker: I think for the reasons that many have mentioned on here, if there was a genuine change in behavior, I would see it across the board, not just at me. With the example of road rage, my husband's reactions still seem severe, in my opinion. He stares down other drivers and races around them to cut them off to prove a point, and he does this with the kids in the car. I can understand voicing irritation, but acting on it is still a red flag to me. That's just one example. There are others that I find concerning, as indication that his new behavior is just a ploy.



Let me introduce you to what they call, "Anger Management". There are plenty of self-help books and sites as well as seminars. I would suggest you talk to your H about working on his anger issues. I did. I'm much better at taking a breath and stepping back before just going from 0-100 in under a second.


----------



## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

I've read a few books from Couples Councillors and many of them indicated that the men typically don't identify that there is a problem until the women is checked out and ready for divorce. Sometimes they are scrambling to fix things but its too late.


Is it possible for someone to change? Of course. Sometimes a new perspective or life altering experience can jolt them into a new direction. Maybe the idea of loosing you has awoken him to his mistakes and he will want to work on them.
IT IS also very real that some aspects of the personality cannot be altered or changed. Its difficult to say if this new husband is dynamic enough to fix his problems, or if some of his problems are in the 'static' area of him that are unmovable or flexible. Only time, and actions, will tell.

Anything that spawns from addictions will be very difficult to break long term 

*Lastly *it will be impossible for him to change behaviours if he is doing them for YOU and not for himself. Self improvement requires self motivation and discipline. If, in his mind, he is doing it for YOU then he will very quickly revert back to his old ways if you give him a bad day and he realized "why am i doing this for HER?"

I dont think you have anything to loose telling him that, infact, you were thinking of divorce but you were scared to even say the words. Give his awakening another jolt.

I think it was the 'mindful attraction plan' (which is a very good book) indicated that AFTER your divorce ultimatum or reveal someone will typically change for 3 - 7 days. At that point, they will revert back to their old ways slowly OR will continue to work on fixing the problem. 

Time will tell... trust your gut


----------



## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

And road rage with the kids in the car should be a hard boundary for you. This needs to be in your next discussion.
1) He needs to find ways to fix his road rage (professionally or through books, him to decide.) 
2) He cannot drive the kids in the car until he figures that out


----------



## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

DoneAndDoner said:


> @Windwalker: I think for the reasons that many have mentioned on here, if there was a genuine change in behavior, I would see it across the board, not just at me. With the example of road rage, my husband's reactions still seem severe, in my opinion. He stares down other drivers and races around them to cut them off to prove a point, and he does this with the kids in the car. I can understand voicing irritation, but acting on it is still a red flag to me. That's just one example. There are others that I find concerning, as indication that his new behavior is just a ploy.


Fair enough. I understand your reservations about his character change and the finality of it. 

I'll just say this. My feelings and interactions with my wife and children have absolutely jack to do with any other person on this planet. How I interact with others has jack to do with how I interact with my immediate family. 

Only 2 things can just make me snap. Idiot drivers, as I put in between 50 and 75 thousand miles a year. My brother, as I would rather snap his neck than share oxygen with him.


----------



## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

OP-

Only you know the life long and persistent traits that are making the hair on the back of your neck standup. 

I'm almost certain that swearing at the driver on the interstate is NOT the ONLY disconcerting behavior this man demonstrates to You and your children.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Your husband doesn't want a divorce. Only time -- maybe a lot of time -- will tell if his change is real.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Give it time, you cant expect him to change in every area all at once. Talk to him about the road rage, tell him that its not acceptable when you or the children are in the car.


----------



## DoneAndDoner (Jan 27, 2018)

sandcastle said:


> OP-
> 
> I'm almost certain that swearing at the driver on the interstate is NOT the ONLY disconcerting behavior this man demonstrates to You and your children.


You're certainly correct. The road rage was just one recent example. There are plenty of others that raise, at a minimum, orange flags. I still maintain that I would be seeing an overall change if this was genuine, but I'm seeing almost all of it directed only towards me.


----------



## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

DoneAndDoner said:


> You're certainly correct. The road rage was just one recent example. There are plenty of others that raise, at a minimum, orange flags. I still maintain that I would be seeing an overall change if this was genuine, but I'm seeing almost all of it directed only towards me.


I know that you know.
Only you know when it will become to much to bear.
When your home and your marriage is no longer a safe place for you to be. But- you will know .


----------



## DoneAndDoner (Jan 27, 2018)

Windwalker said:


> Fair enough. I understand your reservations about his character change and the finality of it.
> 
> I'll just say this. My feelings and interactions with my wife and children have absolutely jack to do with any other person on this planet. How I interact with others has jack to do with how I interact with my immediate family.
> 
> Only 2 things can just make me snap. Idiot drivers, as I put in between 50 and 75 thousand miles a year. My brother, as I would rather snap his neck than share oxygen with him.


Windwalker -- you don't know me from the next person, but you are able to lead into your response with courtesy and a wilingness to accept my point of view. I don't see my husband doing something as simple as this with anyone else. If they are impacting his routine or preferences, they are immediately idiots and whatever the swear word of the day is. As I mentioned, the road rage was just one example of many that I find concerning and indicative of strategic, controlling behavior rather than a genuine transformation. 

I can appreciate the selectiveness of reserving your best self for your wife and kids, but today, he let slip that he's not fully doing that. Long story short, I suggested a parent in strategy for our son, who is 6. He had a bad (little league) game today and was getting frustrated with himself and started to develop a bad attitude. Immediately after we got in the car, my husband did the exact opposite of what I thought we had agreed upon and essentially told our son that, because of his bad attitude, it was his fault the team loss (even though they don't keep score).

I may be nitpicking here with these examples, but my walls are very high and am being very critical of everything my husband says or does to continue protecting myself and the kids.


----------



## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

DoneAndDoner said:


> Windwalker -- you don't know me from the next person, but you are able to lead into your response with courtesy and a wilingness to accept my point of view. I don't see my husband doing something as simple as this with anyone else. If they are impacting his routine or preferences, they are immediately idiots and whatever the swear word of the day is. As I mentioned, the road rage was just one example of many that I find concerning and indicative of strategic, controlling behavior rather than a genuine transformation.
> 
> I can appreciate the selectiveness of reserving your best self for your wife and kids, but today, he let slip that he's not fully doing that. Long story short, I suggested a parent in strategy for our son, who is 6. He had a bad (little league) game today and was getting frustrated with himself and started to develop a bad attitude. Immediately after we got in the car, my husband did the exact opposite of what I thought we had agreed upon and essentially told our son that, because of his bad attitude, it was his fault the team loss (even though they don't keep score).
> 
> I may be nitpicking here with these examples, but my walls are very high and am being very critical of everything my husband says or does to continue protecting myself and the kids.


Yep-
Tormenting the 6 year old because he did not hit a home run. Or make the game winning play or pitch a perfect game.
Watch out when Pops decides he wants to be the Head Coach for the team.


----------



## DoneAndDoner (Jan 27, 2018)

@Yeswecan: if you don't mind me asking, how did you "happen upon this site and others like it?"

I'm totally making assumptions here, but does that mean you were aware that there was something wrong with the marriage and were seeking answers? I'm just curious what your motivation was to find this site in the first place. I can understand how the words of others can resonate louder than those of your loved ones, but something had to drive you to seek out answers to begin with.

I am just learning new terms from reading posts across this site, and discovered "The 180." My husband did not have an affair, but I essentially practiced the techniques of The 180 over the last three years to finally care for myself after all the years of neglect. I can only assume that this became apparent to my husband and forced him to see our marriage for what it really was. I don't know if this triggered a period of reflection for him or what, but I still don't understand how something like this happens overnight. Thanks for sharing your story, though. Hearing your perspective of what my husband may be experiencing is keeping me open minded -- guarded, but open minded.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

suggestion:

get two journals. in one, write the positive things he does each day. in the other, write the negative things he does. 
at the top of each page, write this sentence: "my husband is the kind of person who..." and then create bullet points the finish the actions that he has done. for instance, a bullet point might look like this: 

- tells his son that he cost his team the game, even though they dont even keep score. 

a positive one might look like this:

-tells his son that he enjoyed watching him play and is proud of him, even if it wasnt always easy. 

keep both journals for a couple weeks. put everything both positive and negative in them that stands out to you, whether its toward you or other people. at the end of the two weeks, when you have a habit of writing those things down, look over them yourself and determine if you are being fair to him or not in your own perceptions of how bad it is. 

and then let him see them. make sure you put facts in there only, nothing about what he is intending or thinking. just what he does and says, and maybe a few facts for context.


----------



## DoneAndDoner (Jan 27, 2018)

sandcastle said:


> Yep-
> Tormenting the 6 year old because he did not hit a home run. Or make the game winning play or pitch a perfect game.
> Watch out when Pops decides he wants to be the Head Coach for the team.


The thing is, he's actually really great on the field and with the other kids. It's when it's out of the public eye that things change. He's not like this all the time, but enough that makes me believe this is the reason my kid is so tough on himself to begin with.

The fact that he has these two sides of him make me even more nervous. I have been cautioned in previous posts not to diagnose, which I fully appreciate, but with his behavior of having a favorable personality in front of others and a sour one at home, I can't help but decide that this is a manipulating personality disorder. Diagnosing or not, the two-faced behavior does not sit well with me at all.

On a separate note, I do want to say thanks for your words that encourage me to trust my instincts and endure a process as I see fit. I take to heart everyone's advice, but at the end of the day, this stuff is incredibly scary for so many reasons, and I don't know if I'll ever be able to rip the bandaid off. A couple of years ago, I had resolved to just know when I know.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

*Communication is key.* 

If he continues to do things like road rage, etc call him on it.

Your silence means it's acceptable to you. 

Separation/divorce is financially devastating and will drop the standard of living for all involved.

It takes two to make a marriage. You need to voice your opinion. In a strong marriage both spouses have to be open and honest. If he gets angry when you voice your thoughts then you have your answer.

In case you haven't noticed most men are kinda dumb about relationships, etc. you are doing yourself and marriage no favors by sitting back and expecting change when you don't express yourself.

Unless you are already set on divorce. Then it's all a mute point


----------



## DoneAndDoner (Jan 27, 2018)

As'laDain said:


> suggestion:
> 
> get two journals. in one, write the positive things he does each day. in the other, write the negative things he does.
> at the top of each page, write this sentence: "my husband is the kind of person who..." and then create bullet points the finish the actions that he has done. for instance, a bullet point might look like this:
> ...


Thank you for this suggestion. I will give it a try, as I often question whether or not I'm being fair to him. This will definitely also help me evaluate whether or not his new behavior is sticking or if he is trending back to his old self.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

The reason I know is I'm a hot head. I had to learn to be a better husband/father. How to treat a woman.

These things don't just come naturally to everyone. I've seen the pitfalls of not speaking your mind in situations where it calls for it.

Conflict avoidance is not a good thing.


----------



## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

DoneAndDoner said:


> I can appreciate the selectiveness of reserving your best self for your wife and kids, but today, he let slip that he's not fully doing that. Long story short, I suggested a parent in strategy for our son, who is 6. He had a bad (little league) game today and was getting frustrated with himself and started to develop a bad attitude. Immediately after we got in the car, my husband did the exact opposite of what I thought we had agreed upon and essentially told our son that, because of his bad attitude, it was his fault the team loss (even though they don't keep score).
> 
> I may be nitpicking here with these examples, but my walls are very high and am being very critical of everything my husband says or does to continue protecting myself and the kids.


**** move on blaming the boy. Placing that much weight on a young boys shoulders is a good way to discourage him from giving his full effort. He can acknowledge the loss and encourage improvement without being an ass. I don't believe in not keeping score or participation ribbons, but that's a post for a different part of this forum. 

@As'laDain gave you a really good suggestion that would give you a realistic picture of change. I fully endorse it. There will be some backsliding into old habits, but the journals should show at least a somewhat constant progression to fewer negatives. 

"The thing is, he's actually really great on the field and with the other kids. It's when it's out of the public eye that things change. He's not like this all the time, but enough that makes me believe this is the reason my kid is so tough on himself to begin with."

This part is a little troubling. If anything, I would think it would be the opposite if his family is priority 1.

I agree with Marc, call him to the carpet when he starts his garbage. It serves no one to suffer in silence. 


For the record, as an somewhat certified ******* and former short-tempered baffoon, your story intrigues me. I assure you, I'm far closer to a Hells Angel than a regular one. Lol.


----------



## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

DoneAndDoner said:


> Unfortunately, I don't buy this new behavior. I don't believe someone can transform like that overnight. On top of that, I am no longer attracted to him romantically. I love him as I would family, but no longer as a partner. In the last few weeks, I have paid attention to his behavior outside of our marriage and have noticed that he still carries a tremendous amount of anger towards others. For example, having severe road rage or expressing his disgust with others for minor things or things outside of their control. I would think that if he had genuinely changed, he'd have compassion for everyone, not just me. What I suspect is that he got scared that I had thought through some divorce planning and is using these tactics to reel me back in. This is how he behaved at the beginning of our relationship, but with every milestone, started to show his true self. And I believe that if I stay in this marriage, he will revert to the abusive person he has been for all these years.
> 
> Am I wrong to think this? Is it possible for someone to change like that, and I'm just so conditioned to fear him that I refused to believe it? I honestly don't know what to think or do. My gut still tells me to leave, but if there is any hope in this, I don't want to turn my back on it.


You are right, it is NOT possible for an abusive man to change. They always make a million promises to change after they discover they have something to lose, such as you leaving him. And they do change.....for a couple weeks. In your husband's case, it might last longer until he's comfortable that he got you to change your mind. But no, he won't really change, so it is not going to last. You were keen to notice how he hasn't changed at all in other areas of his life and interactions. So don't fall for his crap. Continue planning your escape. You have to trust your gut feelings because those are your instincts talking to you. This is the only way your instincts communicate with you.

But, you have a problem you will have to overcome. He sensed you were planning to leave, which means you tipped your hand somehow. You didn't mean to let on, but you did. Maybe you became disinterested in him. Maybe you just began pretty much ignoring him, which let him know you were completely checked out of the marriage. Whatever you did and however you acted, he figured it out because you told him without actually saying it.

Now, you have to play his game. You have to play the "I believe you" game and the "I'm all in" game. That will be extremely hard, and I have no idea how you will pull it off because I know I wouldn't be able to do it. It may be best that you play along but shorten the length of time to your projected escape. Instead of early summer, make it the end of April. I know that's only a month or so away, but you're kind of under the gun here.



DoneAndDoner said:


> My husband says he doesn't believe in divorce, but one of his closest friends just separated from his wife, and I think this event has given my husband a different perspective. The second time separation was mentioned, he was the one who brought it up, about two months after his friend separated. This is why I think we may actually be able to have a conversation. *I fear that taking the kids and leaving would actually cause him to be more enraged than if I had tried to talk to him about it.* And I don't completely trust the legal systems in place to be able to protect me and my kids in a situation where we just leave.


Statistics show that a woman is most in danger when she is trying to leave. Don't be lulled by his current demeanor. He won't take the news well however you break it to him, but you cannot announce it in advance, and you can't leave if he knows you're going to. Anything can happen during the time leading up to move out date, and during your exit is the most dangerous time. Therefore, don't tell him in advance and when it's to pack and load the moving truck, have the police there with you. I understand you can't trust them to come to your rescue if you have to call them, but they will arrange to meet you at the house and oversee your move to make sure you can move out safely.
-
The best thing for you to do is dial 211 or the Domestic Violence Hotline 800-799-7233. Both numbers can direct you to DV shelters in your area. They can help you formulate an exit plan in the best way. They are trained in giving advice and helping women to get out safely.


----------



## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

DoneAndDoner said:


> @Yeswecan: if you don't mind me asking, how did you "happen upon this site and others like it?"
> 
> I'm totally making assumptions here, but does that mean you were aware that there was something wrong with the marriage and were seeking answers? I'm just curious what your motivation was to find this site in the first place. I can understand how the words of others can resonate louder than those of your loved ones, but something had to drive you to seek out answers to begin with.
> 
> I am just learning new terms from reading posts across this site, and discovered "The 180." My husband did not have an affair, but I essentially practiced the techniques of The 180 over the last three years to finally care for myself after all the years of neglect. I can only assume that this became apparent to my husband and forced him to see our marriage for what it really was. I don't know if this triggered a period of reflection for him or what, but I still don't understand how something like this happens overnight. Thanks for sharing your story, though. Hearing your perspective of what my husband may be experiencing is keeping me open minded -- guarded, but open minded.


Maybe tell us in more detail how your husband has been abusive say in the past 5 years. And maybe Yeswecan will give you details of how he felt he was a terrible husband because he didn't give any. If th e two descriptions don't line up as very similar, then the comparison is apples and oranges and the differences could be vast. 

There's a website called Must Be This Tall To Ride, where the guy writes an "Open Letter To Sh!tty Husbands." The letter is 14 volumes on different subjects that he points out are sh!tty husband behaviors. None of them are emotionally and mentally abusive as you describe your husband to be. Yeswecan might have made all 14 of those mistakes and not be anything like your husband. So, it just might not be a good idea to derive optimism, however so cautious, from his professed overnight transformation. Statistically, abusers, as I mentioned before, do not change any more than the cliched tiger changes his stripes. Make sure you and Yeswecan are talking about the same thing before hoping your husband is capable of pulling off such a miracle. I assure you he isn't and even if I am wrong that he can't, he would fall in the lowest percentile category of possible likelihood and success. It isn't possible for you to be too critical.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

DoneAndDoner said:


> @Yeswecan: if you don't mind me asking, how did you "happen upon this site and others like it?"
> 
> I'm totally making assumptions here, but does that mean you were aware that there was something wrong with the marriage and were seeking answers? I'm just curious what your motivation was to find this site in the first place. I can understand how the words of others can resonate louder than those of your loved ones, but something had to drive you to seek out answers to begin with.
> 
> I am just learning new terms from reading posts across this site, and discovered "The 180." My husband did not have an affair, but I essentially practiced the techniques of The 180 over the last three years to finally care for myself after all the years of neglect. I can only assume that this became apparent to my husband and forced him to see our marriage for what it really was. I don't know if this triggered a period of reflection for him or what, but I still don't understand how something like this happens overnight. Thanks for sharing your story, though. Hearing your perspective of what my husband may be experiencing is keeping me open minded -- guarded, but open minded.


I was looking for help with my anger issues. Similar to your H. Road rage and quick to anger. In searching self-help for my anger issues I found this site and started reading. Sheesh...eye opener for sure. I was handling dad and provider very well. However, my husband skills simply sucked. After reading the life details of many here(infidelity threads) the recurring theme is usually the same. Lack of attention. Spouse finds what they are not getting from the marriage from another. I was king a not providing the husbandly attention my W needed and desired. She told me many times but I ignored my W. After all I was providing and being a dad, right? I was foolish. For me, my W kept on course hoping I would change. My W did not look to another or simply file for D. For me, that was a HUGE revelation to the character of my W. She deserved nothing short of my undivided attention, love, support and everything else a H should be doing. My W was also a bit leery wondering if this change was just a flash in the pan. It was not and never was going to be. My W deserved the very best I could be. 

The 180, yes this is a way of detaching for separation. It does not really bring couples together nor designed too from understanding. However, it does appear to have an alternate affect and that is other spouse wondering what is going on. Communication starts and hopefully a resolution found.

Yes, it may be your H has had that revelation or moment of reflection that something is just not as it is to be. Like you, my W was guarded to a certain extent because like a light switch I changed with one flick. But did it have staying power? It did and will continue. My W multiplied her efforts as a W as a result of my change. The overall marriage blossomed and continues to do so. Just this past weekend we spent both days together getting lost in the countryside finding what we could find and simply having a blast enjoying each other. Appreciation for each other is high on the list for us both. I appreciate my W for who she is and what she does daily. Appreciation goes a long way. Even further when you state to one another that you appreciate them often. 

Now, your H may fall off the wagon and revert to old ways. We are not perfect and have our failings. But, it is the failing that does not stop that cause problems. Work with your H and his change. Foster and encourage. Drop a hand written note in his lunch or some place your H will find it. It can be short and sweet, "I love the changes I see in you."


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

StarFires said:


> *You are right, it is NOT possible for an abusive man to change. They always make a million promises to change after they discover they have something to lose, such as you leaving him. And they do change.....for a couple weeks.* In your husband's case, it might last longer until he's comfortable that he got you to change your mind. But no, he won't really change, so it is not going to last. You were keen to notice how he hasn't changed at all in other areas of his life and interactions. So don't fall for his crap. Continue planning your escape. You have to trust your gut feelings because those are your instincts talking to you. This is the only way your instincts communicate with you.
> 
> But, you have a problem you will have to overcome. He sensed you were planning to leave, which means you tipped your hand somehow. You didn't mean to let on, but you did. Maybe you became disinterested in him. Maybe you just began pretty much ignoring him, which let him know you were completely checked out of the marriage. Whatever you did and however you acted, he figured it out because you told him without actually saying it.
> 
> ...


No, you are wrong. People can change and it can have staying power. Honestly, your post is horrible. You have the OP dialing 211 and running for the hill.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

StarFires said:


> Maybe tell us in more detail how your husband has been abusive say in the past 5 years. And maybe Yeswecan will give you details of how he felt he was a terrible husband because he didn't give any. If th e two descriptions don't line up as very similar, then the comparison is apples and oranges and the differences could be vast.
> 
> There's a website called Must Be This Tall To Ride, where the guy writes an "Open Letter To Sh!tty Husbands." The letter is 14 volumes on different subjects that he points out are sh!tty husband behaviors. None of them are emotionally and mentally abusive as you describe your husband to be. Yeswecan might have made all 14 of those mistakes and not be anything like your husband. So, it just might not be a good idea to derive optimism, however so cautious, from his professed overnight transformation. Statistically, abusers, as I mentioned before, do not change any more than the cliched tiger changes his stripes. Make sure you and Yeswecan are talking about the same thing before hoping your husband is capable of pulling off such a miracle. I assure you he isn't and even if I am wrong that he can't, he would fall in the lowest percentile category of possible likelihood and success. It isn't possible for you to be too critical.


"Men frequently demonstrate an inability or unwillingness to recognize the pain they cause their wives or girlfriends and then fail to intentionally adjust the behavior to stop hurting them."

I concur. However....

Just a brief read of the open letter, I did just about all of it. I invested in everything BUT my W. I belittled. I angered quickly. I name called(called my W a biotch once). I ignored. I had little respect. I was an azz to the 9th degree. Sex was something I ignored with my W. Affection was something seen in the movies. I was nothing short of awful. However, my W believed and prayed(as she cried yet another night alone in the bathroom because I rejected her for sex once again) that I would be the H she prayed for when she was a little girl. My W took this for 20 years. I finally got it and how I miserably screwed up my marriage of 20 years. I regret every minute of it and even more so when I gaze at my W. I feel like crap for years I was nothing short of an a-hole. The day the light went off in my head was the day I changed for good. The day the light went off that my W was something special for sticking it out. I changed for good. The day I recognized my W had backbone and character. I changed for good. The day I recognized my W was an excellent mother. I changed for good. The day I recognized my W stayed the course for.....ME. I changed for good. 

It was a change I will NEVER regret.

OP, give your H the benefit of the doubt. Reciprocate back. For me, my W simply commenting on the change made me work harder. P.S. took a few weeks/months for my W to get used to me opening the door for her(car or any other door for that matter). Something so simply as opening a door for my W. So simple but speaks volumes to my W that I am who she prayed for. It just took me 20 years of marriage to figure it out. After 5 years since my change...I still open the door for my W....as it should be.

One other item. You see my name for the forum? Yeswecan...that has absolutely nothing to do with Obama and the stupid campaign crap. Yeswecan is something I say to my W now since the last 20 years I always said to her"No we can't".


----------



## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Yeswecan, you remind me of an incident that happened at work one day many years ago. I was sitting across a table from a female co-worker, when a guy, who worked in a near area, walked over to chat with us. I forget the topic that provided him the perfect seque into telling us how he treated his wife and the things he did for her. We both sat in silent mesmerized awe long after he had walked away. She turned to me after a few moments and repeated something he said. I couldn't acknowledge her speaking because I was still silent and mesmerized. Then she asked "Starfires, did you hear what I said?" No acknowledgment from me. I still wasn't able to bring myself back down to earth. A few moments later, she called my name again "Starfires" a little bit louder to get my attention. I rose from my seat to walk away, and, pretending to cry, I shouted "YES I HEARRRD YOUUUU!" We both burst out laughing. She and I were in our early-mid 30s, both divorced, both single mothers, and both spent our lives up to that point still looking for that man, as you put it, we'd been dreaming of since we were little girls. And there he was working across from us all this time but belonged to someone else - a very lucky woman indeed. We envied that woman and had never met her.

It's wonderful that you changed. It's wonderful that you realized you needed to change, and I'm happy for your wife - a very lucky woman indeed. I just have to disagree with you that my post was horrible because it was, indeed, based in statistical facts. So no, I'm not wrong. As just one example, statistics show it takes a woman 7 times to finally leave an abusive man for good. That means she left and went back 6 times prior, only to leave a 7th and final time realizing he still hadn't changed and finally accepting that he never will. And they never do. Or, as I stated before, those who actually do change are very few in comparison to the number of those who don't. 1 in 100 odds are not conducive to optimism. For that matter, nor are 1 in 75 odds, or whatever the exact ratio may be. Even 50/50 odds are not all that much to hope for, and that's being generous.

You conveyed the story of your miracle, but it simply doesn't apply to many. It only applied to you and way too few others. And, I have to point out that you neglect one key detail when you criticize my posts and when you encourage her to stay with her abuser (entirely opposite of the advice from DV professionals), and that's the detail of what served as the catalyst that prompted and motivated you to make this change in yourself. You stated at least twice what you discovered after coming to this board, but DoneandDoner's husband is not here on this board. And if he is, goodness knows his presence here has not yielded any benefit to her. 

So, unless the majority of abusive men find revelation and, therefore, derive motivation from an outside source like you did, they will continue abusing their wife and being an "azz" and "nothing short of awful" like you were until they realize they have something to lose or until they lose it. Everybody has regrets then when they lose what they have. Walk Away Wife Syndrome

Good that you found this board. Good that you realized you had to change. Good for your wife to have the same but infinitely improved model of a husband. All thanks to TAM and the wonderful and unfortunate people who post here. But DoneandDoner has not been so fortunate.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

StarFires said:


> But DoneandDoner has not been so fortunate.


But all the same, the opportunity has appeared to see a possible lasting change in her H. I don't understand why you would suggest the following:

Starfire


> Statistics show that a woman is most in danger when she is trying to leave. Don't be lulled by his current demeanor. He won't take the news well however you break it to him, but you cannot announce it in advance, and you can't leave if he knows you're going to. Anything can happen during the time leading up to move out date, and during your exit is the most dangerous time. Therefore, don't tell him in advance and when it's to pack and load the moving truck, have the police there with you. I understand you can't trust them to come to your rescue if you have to call them, but they will arrange to meet you at the house and oversee your move to make sure you can move out safely.
> -
> The best thing for you to do is dial 211 or the Domestic Violence Hotline 800-799-7233. Both numbers can direct you to DV shelters in your area. They can help you formulate an exit plan in the best way. They are trained in giving advice and helping women to get out safely.


Based on the information provided from DoneandDoner I don't see were there is domestic violence on the horizon or warrants this information. Has DandD posted she fears of physical harm? 

I never ONCE hit my W for any reason. And yes, my W threatened to leave me several times. Specifically due to my anger issues. 

As for the statistic, please provide a link so we can assess the data. You stated that it is impossible for abusive men to change. That statement is broad brushed and incorrect. I was abusive(not physically) but emotionally/verbally. I changed. The statistic you speak of will show then that abusive men 100% can not change, yes?


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Openminded said:


> Your husband doesn't want a divorce. Only time -- maybe a lot of time -- will tell if his change is real.


I agree with this. You ask if a complete turnaround is possible. I believe it is, but it requires time, lots of time. And it requires consistent actions/behavior that clearly demonstrate, for a prolonged period of time, that he is truly reformed and chooses the life of a reformed man.

Do not be quick to believe someone when they show you what you want to see only after you've been begging and pleading for years with no prior results.
If when you say "enough is enough" you finally see change, be very, very skeptical (or cautiously optimistic, if that sounds better).

Quick change in behavior tells you two things very clearly: 1.) The change was always possible (he just didn't want to do it before); and 2.) He's good at showing you exactly what you want to see.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Satya said:


> I agree with this. You ask if a complete turnaround is possible. I believe it is, but it requires time, lots of time. And it requires consistent actions/behavior that clearly demonstrate, for a prolonged period of time, that he is truly reformed and chooses the life of a reformed man.
> 
> Do not be quick to believe someone when they show you what you want to see only after you've been begging and pleading for years with no prior results.
> If when you say "enough is enough" you finally see change, be very, very skeptical (or cautiously optimistic, if that sounds better).
> ...


This is/was me in a nutshell(with exception of #2 putting on a show). My W was very skeptical that the change would last. Took some time for my W to realize it was a change for good. 

I hope the OP at the very least gives it a chance. As for the road rage, your H needs some reading material of abusive language and what screaming constantly is abusive behavior. It is quite possible your H does not see this as abusive. I sure didn't until I read up on it. Your H needs to want this change in behavior. If it is something your H can not do then pull the plug.


----------



## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Yeswecan said:


> But all the same, the opportunity has appeared to see a possible lasting change in her H. I don't understand why you would suggest the following:
> 
> Yes, and she is giving him the opportunity to show her. She posted here wondering if it's probable that he will change. I let her know, with the assistance of research data, that it is most UNlikely that any changes will be permanent or even long lasting. The promised changes usually last between 2 weeks and 3-4 months depending, but normally no more than that before he transforms back into his real self.
> 
> ...


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

StarFires said:


> Yeswecan said:
> 
> 
> > Good grief, Yeswecan, you are so behind not just the 8 ball here but EVERYthing. It is exhausting. But fine, I will play along one last time and then I'm done because it's just too ridiculous, and I don't hardly enjoy, the back and forth with someone so incredibly unknowledgeable, yet keeps challenging me on commonly known public information that Google's and every other browser's search engine make readily available. The only thing required is a desire to know what you are talking about to be more important than your desire to be unnecessarily challenging.
> ...


----------



## DoneAndDoner (Jan 27, 2018)

@Yeswecan and @StarFires, I'm sorry if my post instigated confrontation, but I do want to thank you both for the incredible amount of thought you put into your posts. While it goes without saying that no two marriages are the same and should be compared to generate decisions, as the OP, I take to heart what both of you have said. Both of your positions describe exactly the conflict I'm feeling about this radical change I'm seeing in my husband. 

Today, a friend of mine who is currently going through a fairly amicable divorce said to me that he "thinks it's crazy that I identify as someone who is divorcing." For the record, I've never said that and he acknowledged that it's the image he creates in his head about my marriage because I had previously made up my mind to file this summer. But he also thinks that I have stayed in a state of limbo for too long. While he insists he wasn't mocking me (I'm sure he considers himself the divorce guru now because of his experiences), I did have to point out that there's no space to mess up or have second thoughts in an abusive relationship. Yes, I know...there should never be second thoughts at all, but as mentioned, it takes an average of 7 attempts to leave before its permanent. My friend experienced an emotional roller coaster, also having tried to reconcile with his wife several times over the course of three years. And I had to explain to him that I don't feel like I have that luxury. That I can only make tiny forward movements, either towards reconciliation or towards divorce, but I can't waffle between the two. Because with an abusive partner, you're never confident that you'll even be alive to change your mind.

So my point is, the two sides you have both presented are very meaningful to me. On the one hand, I am completely astonished by the degree to which my husband has shown changed behaviors and pray that it sticks. Even if our marriage doesn't make it, the kids would witness healthy behaviors modeled by their dad. On the other hand, I still don't believe it the least bit, and I don't believe the change is sparked by internal factors. I have many theories about why I became attracted to the abusive behavior in the first place, so I won't deny that the potential for a fairy tale ending isn't appealing to me, even if it's just fantasy. However, I'm a pretty logical and data-driven person and like keeping those statistics about domestic violence in my back pocket as a constant reminder to be, at a minimum, skeptical about this change.

I want to answer Starfires' question from an earlier post, which is to describe the abusive behavior I had been experiencing. My husband has demonstrated some textbook behaviors, like controlling the finances. I asked for the passwords to all of our accounts once, and he made sure they were valid for less than a week. He made major financial decisions without consulting me and he has a terrible spending habit to feed his hobby, one that has left our kids sharing the smallest room in the house so that the other bedroom could function as a storage unit. And I'm talking hundreds of thousands of dollars here. Physically, he's never hit me. He has thrown and broken things across the room when we've argued. And he's threatened me in very vague terms. He manipulated me into not being able to see my friends. He's never actually prevented me, but chooses exactly the right words to have eventually made me stop making plans all together. He withheld any kind of affection completely. And he contributed nothing to the household, including not pulling his weight as a father. I already had a 90-minute commute to work. At one point, I was doing two drop-offs and two pick-ups every day, sometimes making my commute 3 hours one way. I'd get home and he'd be angry that I got home so late because that meant by the time I finished making dinner, it would be too close to his bed time. Emotionally, there was no doubt he was abusive and neglectful. About a month after we got married -- a major relationship milestone -- he became incredibly cold towards me. I finally confronted him and asked why he stopped having sex with me, and he replied, "because you're a fu**ing ugly person on the outside and on the inside. I'm disgusted by you." That was about 30 days after our wedding. It was easy to become immune to being called a b***h after that. My husband also wanted to have a gun. I am opposed to having them in the house. One day, when my son was about 20 months, a friend of my husband's showed up at the door. He was carrying two small cases. Money was exchanged and we became the owners of a 9 and a 22. There was no anger involved in that decision, just selfishness and total disregard. It was about control. And I finally started to see that, while many of his behaviors may have been motivated by anger, domestic violence is really about manipulation and control.

I had always struggled with assigning a condition (if you will) to his behaviors. Was it abuse or a matter of anger management? My mother was incredibly emotionally abusive towards me, so I never saw this as bad behavior. I just thought of her as always being angry. So it never occurred to me that the things my husband was doing to me was not healthy. Likewise, my father-in-law is equally controlling and short-tempered, so I had given my husband a pass for those learned behaviors. And I still sometimes convince myself that he's "just" got some anger he needs to work out and that if I accommodated him in ways that helps keep his anger at bay, I would be be exposed to the wrath. I'm not saying that's the answer, but I acknowledge that I have been long conditioned to believe that it is.

I know that my willingness to overlook or forgive his abuse encourages me to give him a second chance, but I've done a lot of work over the years to rebuild my dignity and believe that I deserve so much more than what he's provided, and this part of me wants to tell him that his change is too late. That there are consequences for being a complete a-hole for 10 years. And so, this is how I found myself starting this thread.

And as of last night, he confirmed that he was prompted to make swift changes when he realized how serious I was about filing for divorce. About three weeks ago, he asked me if I had spoken to an attorney yet, and I told him that I had. Things began to change immediately, like within hours of that conversation. So to StarFires' point, I'm logging that into the manipulation journal.

I didn't mean for this reply to be so long, but because of the conversation my post sparked, I did want to respond to both of you with the same level of thought and detail that you both provided me and to everyone reading. As you can see, there are no right answers here, just two sides of the same coin. 

Yeswecan, I find your story sweet and inspiring and wished for many that they were as self-reflective as you. Thank you for sharing. I'm really happy for you and your wife that yours was truly a happy ending.

StarFires, I really do appreciate the constant reminders about abuse. Until I finally admitted to myself that I was experiencing domestic violence, I would've continued on with the neglect and control till the day I died. 

Really, this post was just to thank you both for taking the time to provide insight, and allow me to feel as though my uncertainty and paralysis is not just an inability to cope and move forward in my life.


----------



## DoneAndDoner (Jan 27, 2018)

Moving on to another question, I am curious what people think about this: I'm no longer sexually attracted to my husband. Even when he puts his hand on my arm because he's simply trying to get past me in a small space, I am incredibly uncomfortable, like when a weird uncle tries to hold your hand. It feels incestuous to me. I started to tell him this last night, but he insists that if we start with the tiniest of gestures, we will eventually rekindle our sex life. I'm somewhat repulsed by the idea. I am starting to enjoy what appears to be a friendship and I like having another adult to engage with in the house, but that's about my limit. Is this a dealbreaker?


----------



## DoneAndDoner (Jan 27, 2018)

@Windwalker -- just for sharing, I don't believe in not keeping score either! And I also slide further on the Hells Angel side than the other one. Glad you're getting some reading time in with all of this.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

DoneAndDoner said:


> [MENTION=147186]
> And as of last night, he confirmed that he was prompted to make swift changes when he realized how serious I was about filing for divorce. About three weeks ago, he asked me if I had spoken to an attorney yet, and I told him that I had. Things began to change immediately, like within hours of that conversation. So to StarFires' point, I'm logging that into the manipulation journal.


There is a saying here at TAM..."You need to be willing to lose it to save it." You are willing to lose it to save it. So was my W. Having to stand back and really think about what an idiot I was for years made me realize I needed to change. My W, like you, overlooked and forgave. Your H though...spending in such a way that it affects the children's lives is completely selfish to the 100th degree. My kids never went without. My W took 100% of my nonsense. Further, there was never an altercation between my W and I that would have made me strike my W. I can not say my W has not whacked me a few times.

My change was not manipulative(some felt your H may be manipulating) in any way. It was an awaking/realization that I have screwed up for years and what we could have had can still be. I made the changes. 

So, yes, your H realized you mean it this time. The bull crap is now over. I feel though it may be too late for your H in saving what he completely bungled.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

DoneAndDoner said:


> @Windwalker -- just for sharing, I don't believe in not keeping score either! And I also slide further on the Hells Angel side than the other one. Glad you're getting some reading time in with all of this.


I do not keep score either. Although my W has one heck of a memory. :surprise:


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

DoneAndDoner said:


> Moving on to another question, I am curious what people think about this: I'm no longer sexually attracted to my husband. Even when he puts his hand on my arm because he's simply trying to get past me in a small space, I am incredibly uncomfortable, like when a weird uncle tries to hold your hand. It feels incestuous to me. I started to tell him this last night, but he insists that if we start with the tiniest of gestures, we will eventually rekindle our sex life. I'm somewhat repulsed by the idea. I am starting to enjoy what appears to be a friendship and I like having another adult to engage with in the house, but that's about my limit. *Is this a dealbreaker?*


For many, yes. As I understand it, once a woman detached mentally/physically getting back these feelings does not happen. Thus my response a few post back, I believe the problem has gone past being able to fix the marriage. 

But, the slight glimmer of enjoying a friendship can lead to rekindling of love. As you stated, at least you are giving it your best effort to make it work. If your H continues to fail with these changes on a consistent basis or in other words...gone back to who he was then pull the plug. 

Keep us posted.


----------



## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

DoneAndDoner said:


> @Windwalker -- just for sharing, I don't believe in not keeping score either! And I also slide further on the Hells Angel side than the other one. Glad you're getting some reading time in with all of this.


I made the comment about being intrigued simply because I would like to understand the other side of the equation better so to speak. It's not a morbid curiosity, more of a seeking to understand curiosity.

This June will be 20 years of marriage for us. The first 5 were good. The middle 10 were total and utter **** from my viewpoint. The last 5 were mostly a 65/35 split of good and ****. In the end, as part of the process I have decided that if I'm going to have any kind of a marriage I have to be able to reconcile the marriage as a break-even at the 20 year mark. I take it day by day and try to do my part to make it a good day for the both of us the best I can. I have been 1000% completely transparent with my wife about my feelings on the history of out marriage. She knows exactly were I stand. She does not agree, but she does not have to. My opinion and hers do not have to match. She has made comments that she doesn't believe that I'm looking at things the right way, to which my reply is that I will not and won't attempt to change her perspective, but I'll be damned if she has any rights to attempt to change mine. We have had a couple of arguments over it and the last time we did I told her that I will not discuss it anymore. It's just as simple as that.

When I made concessions and attempts to bury the "hatchet so to speak", it took numerous attempts. It was not until I reached my breaking point that changes were made. For the record that was about year 15 for me. I also made myself a promise that now that I had reached my breaking point that my goal was just to hang on for the kids and once the youngest turned 18 give it all to her and walk away. Well damn, to little to late now. I'm not going to lie. There were 3 years in my marriage that I was a royal son of a *****. I wanted to break her. I hated her at one point. I did eventually push her to her braking point and she cried uncle. She told me she wanted a divorce. I asked so you have finally reached your breaking point? She replied yes, and I replied back, well I guess everyone has one and it's pretty damn clear that this marriage has always ment more to me than it has for you. You want a divorce then you can have it if that's what you want. She asked what's that supposed to mean. I said it quite simple, it took 10 years of BS for me to reach my breaking point, but it seems that just a couple of years of crap is all you can take. You dedication to the situation is duly noted and I left town for work. Mind you, I had been working on the road for several years at that point so its not like I was home all the time.

That was roughly 4 years ago give or take. We have reconciled. We get along actually pretty good for the most part. The one thing that really hurt her was when I had my heart attack 2 years ago and called her from the table to tell her I love her. The next morning she called and asked if I wanted her to come up. I told her no. It's was 5 hours away and she had responsibilities to take care of there. I would let her know when I was released because they would not release me without some kind of assistance and she could come up then. I refused to be seen in a weakened state, that's just all there is to it. My trust or lack of 100% trust will not allow it along with the vulnerability that goes with that. Since the day she asked for divorce we have had quite a few open and honest discussions about things over the years. She knows exactly where I stand. She knows that I never wanted children. Granted, they are my world from the day they were each born, but I always told myself I never wanted any. She wanted them so I said OK. I never wanted a SAHW. She wanted that, I wanted a true partner in life. I never gave a damn about a house or what other people thought of me, she did, so in 20 years she has had 4 different ones. All I ever truly wanted was a lover and a best friend and a life partner. I don't know that I have achieved that, but it seems to be getting closer.

Make no mistake, if we split it will hurt, but life will continue on and I will make the most of it. I am no longer of the mind that a person should fight for the marriage at all costs. Call me jaded or whatever. I firmly believe you have to be willing to lose it to make it better. I am so much quicker to suggest divorce. I call it bring realistic.

There are so many things left out of all of that. If I put everything down it would have been an encyclopedia rather than the book I wrote. I'm sure we could all write our own novels. Not sure how well the sever space would hold up though. Lol. This is the Readers Digest /Cliff Notes super condensed version. I actually linger around here now to provide help where I can and to catch a glimpse of how other people think.

This is my reasoning for being intrigued by your story.
I truly wish you well.


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I agree with the others who've said it takes time. 

This is a forum I participated on a few years ago when in need of support, and it has sections for both the abuser who wants to change and the victims:

Home | MEVAC - Men Ending Verbal Abuse and Control


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Count me as one TAM member who thinks you should cut your losses now. Given what you've told us, he can't 'turn around' without some serious therapy, which takes a lot of time. He also has had virtually no relationship with his children, so his absence could actually be a relief to them.

I'm in the 'life is too short' camp that says that you've enabled this for long enough, that you deserve better things for yourself, that 10 years of abuse is enough.

I think he's hoovering you after treating you with contempt for the whole of your marriage. I would believe it is manipulation, not epiphany. And even if it turns out to have staying power, then he will still be a better father and better human being in the world, both good things. Since you're not attracted to him romantically anymore, you really have no reason to try, in my opinion. He wants to be able to say that he tried everything; you've already done that for years and he treated you with respect only when you were packing your bags.

I say 'enough.'


----------



## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

It is possible for someone to change.

It doesn’t seem like your husband has actually done so.

Generally I was mellow, but stern and willing to be angry. When things made me angry I let it show. I was not excessive, but people didn’t push me because they knew I would strike back.

I can say that was required to get along where I was raised. I had friends, and no particular issues. No road rage for instance.

But in 1979 I did get angry with my wife, and began emotionally abusing her quite a lot. Then occasionally tossed her aside when she tried to block my way. I was not gentle. 

In 1980 I grabbed her by the hair and drug her into the bedroom and spanked her. People might think spanking is something sexy, but it’s not. It was physical abuse for the sole purpose of hurting her. I chose that to avoid broken bones.

That act frightened me. I swore to myself to change myself. I have not hurt my wife emotionally again since then. 

There are special circumstances.

My wife was later diagnosed as a pathological liar, and unable to tell the truth when questioned. For me to not only stop abusing her in response to her lies but also find peace in our relationship has been a long road.

This includes psychiatrists, psychologists, and university studies in philosophy. 

But no matter what I knew I was out of control on that day, and I was never going to let myself be out of control again.

I just don’t think your husband has seen anything like that.


----------



## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

So how are things going, @DoneAndDoner


----------

