# depersonalization disorder



## Whubble (10 mo ago)

Good morning,

My wife had an affair last summer with three in-person meetups with AP. According to their text messages (I have the whole transcript), they had sex. However, when confronted, and since I had no video evidence, she denied sex by saying that it was all online and nothing happened in real-life. However, I have her arranging this as a cover story by grooming friends that she had told (and who had encouraged) about the affair and I have her saying to AP "I told him I didn't **** you, I'm still going with that by the way lol". SO I don't believe her.

The affair is my fault, according to her. I have been inattentive with the birth of our three kids (5.9,12) - I have tried as best I can but it has been difficult to balance three kids (I tend to be the primary caregiver and was stay at home dad for three years) with giving enough affection. Plus my wife has been co-sleeping with the kids for three years - how much sex can you have if you can't sleep in your own bed? Despite that, we have never had a dead bedroom. I have used porn - she says addicted - maybe, maybe not. I sought therapy for porn use and curtailed it significantly, though never eliminated (nor did my wife demand that I do so), I had a sexual identity crisis a number of years ago since where I thought perhaps I was a little bisexual - sought therapy - DID NOT **** a bunch of men to find out. And I overspent two months in a row that left us short on our mortgage leaving her in the awkward position of having to borrow money from her dad. These are the things she brings up to either blame me, make what she did morally equivalent (porn), or guilt me into staying - because she stayed despite these things.

She got a polygraph test, in her messaging to AP and friends she indicated her intention to game it. First test comes back inconclusive, second test she passes. However, she tells a friend that she lied on the test "I'm pretty good, I should be a criminal" she says, and I find out that she took five Lorazepam (anti-anxiety meds) prior to the test and on top of that, googled things like how to pass a polygraph and even did the thumbtack in the shoe trick (Oceans 13 style). I called ********.

Despite all this, I try to give her the benefit of the doubt and reconcile. Reconciliation does not go well, she refuses to cut AP out and refuses to give me access to her devices (I made my own way in eventually). In fact, the very day I recommit to the marriage (she was pissed because she was going to propose ad three month separation where she would be with AP - she had already restarted the affair - though not physically two weeks prior), she contacts him for sex the following friday. They have a falling out of Saturday - Sunday because she was being to pushy and needy in her demands for attention (LOL!).

So we try through Christmas. I'm still not happy because I am 99% sure that she is lying to me about what happened and AP keeps popping up every now and then in her text messages and she doesn't simply tell him to **** off. Mid-january is my daughter's birthday (9) and my wife goes on Facebook to announce it. AP writes his birthday greetings and then starts texting my wife about it. Their conversation snowballs and pretty soon they are way off the topic of birthdays. Nothing quite sexual, but not limited to the birthday as my wife led me to believe. In this exchange she learns that due to the weather AP will be at home monday (today) and tuesday. So that night my wife spends three hours in the bathroom dying her hair and grooming herself telling me that she is getting ready for me.

Naturally, given the fact that she was just in contact with AP, and that he is at home the following day, as is she (work from home), I was suspicious - rightly so as it turns out. She texts me that she is taking a nap at lunch, but instead goes to his house and has sex with him. I confront and she denies and to the extent that she accepts she went to his house, it was - once again - my fault because, despite her saying we were doing so well, I wasn't doing enough.

Now, to the title of the post. In yet another attempt to dodge responsibility (she has owned none of this so far - instead it has been and is, in her mind, all my fault), she tells me about how she suffers from depersonalization and has been treated for it the last two years (absolutely news to me - I knew she was seeing a shrink but all she told me was that it was for depression) and she experiences this out-of-body experience when she is with AP and tells me its like watching some other girl doing other things with AP. This is the closest she has gotten to admitting sex and yet she tells me that when she was out of body and watching, she was focusing on other things in the room, etc. 

Of course, this depersonalization is also my fault and is a result of my emotional neglect over the years. Thing is, have I ignored her? No. Could I do better? Yes. All of my acts of love (I tend toward acts of service - perhaps I was wrong), and my kisses, hugs and "I love yous" were all deemed inadequately passionate or sincere. Is it even plausible that I could have caused this disorder and is it plausible that it could have played such a role in her affair? Does it absolve her of responsibility? She seems to me to have been in fully aware of what was going on around her and was bragging to her friends about sleeping with him (all lies for attention she now tells me), etc. It all feels very manipulative.

Things is, I know nothing about it and she has never spoken a word to me about it over the last couple years. 
I don't even know that she has a formal diagnosis. She told one of her awful enabler friends that she googled some symptoms last fall and talked to her psych about this just before she retired in October. Since telling me of this she has asked for a new referral and has asked me to attend her sessions so I can see what it is all about (appeals to authority are a favourite tactic of hers). 

Any insights into this condition are appreciated. I can't stand to be around her, and have initiated divorce. But she won't accept it and has gone so far as to sit on me and hold me down in order to get me to talk to her about our relationship. But I know that this will just become another arrow in her quiver when it comes to her smear campaign (which has been ongoing for months now). I will be known to all her family and all our friends as someone who cared so little about her that he gave her this disorder, forced her to cheat, and then left her despite her mental illness.

Please forgive the wall of text.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

You wife is a cheater and a liar. What more do you need to know? She ****ed another guy at least three times and still continues talking to him. She has no respect for you whatsoever. You have a dea dbedroom. There is no coming back from this.

You need to leave her immediately and move on with your life. You'll easily find someone else who will respect you, not lie to you, and not cheat on you. Don't waste any more time worrying about her.

Start working on yourself. I can tell you are a little too weak which might have caused this. Work on yourself, be a man, be strong.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Surely you know that she is just making up excuses? Its clear she has had sex with him. 
You are doing the right thing by ending the marriage, sad for the children though. Get a decent lawyer.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Yeah it’s your fault all right.

It’s your fault you stayed 

It’s your fault you don’t have a lawyer yet

It’s your fault you tried to reconcile with a zlut 

It’s your fault you are still in this situation 

It’s your fault you swallow stupid lies like they are the truth

It’s your fault you can’t see the punch right in your face she is giving you

It’s your fault you gave your balls away

It’s your fault you are teaching your kids this is what a marriage looks like by staying in this ridiculous nightmare 

It’s your fault you are acting so WEAK and PATHETIC.


IT IS DEFINITELY YOUR FAULT BUT NOT FOR ANY OF THE REASONS SHE IS GIVING YOU.


I can’t believe you eat one chit sandwich after the other.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Sounds very convenient to be depersonalised when you are cheating.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> Sounds very convenient to be depersonalised when you are cheating.


You got that right brother!!!!!!


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## Butforthegrace (Oct 6, 2021)

My friend, your story is a classic example of both gaslighting and DARVO. Look them up. Your wife is a master practitioner. 

You are not in R. Don't kid yourself. White knuckling it and staying technically married by walking on eggshells is not R.

Friend, all I can say to you is: don't set yourself on fire to keep somebody else warm.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

Dude, she’s been in bed with this guy multiple times, still contacts him, brags to her enabling friends about it and even they support her, found a way to cheat a polygraph, and now claiming a disorder while trying not to let you leave.

This is a nuclear explosion waiting to happen. You’ve collected evidence, right? Lock that down tight. Keep a journal of all the stuff she’s said to you and continues to say to you; document her lies. Look up if you can record conversations where you live. Look up the 180 and gray rock and implement them right away. In your case, they’re not meant to get her back but to preserve your own mental health. Because frankly, she’s very ducking manipulative.

There is no relationship to save if she’s so set on blaming you for everything. She’s full of it. See a lawyer to go over your options and file.

Do you have your own support group separate from hers? Close friends and family on your side? Rely on them if you can.

Cover all your bases. With someone conniving and manipulative as her, you might be in for a doozy.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

@Whubble find your backbone.
You're letting her treat you like this.

Maybe you want the pain to continue, if so...keep going like you have been.

If not then you have to stand up on your own two feet and take charge of your life.

You tried to divorce already, so do it.
Don't let her take charge of that.

Call the cops if she gets physical with you again.
I know it's hard, but we're talking about your life here. Take charge of it.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Get a good job! Earn enough to support your family. Divorce your terrible wife!!!! Seriously, now!!!


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Whubble said:


> *(I tend to be the primary caregiver and was stay at home dad for three years)*


although I did read, I didn't have to read past the above sentence. You my friend are a mess of a... man?. No wonder why your wife lost her respect for you as a man. I don't care what anybody say, but when a man becomes the stay at home parent, and the wife becomes the breadwinner, the next logical step is the woman seeing her stay at home man as less than a man. Anyway, you do seem to be a beta or below at the least. Therefore is your fault, but for being a weak pathetic man (you are teaching your children how to lose respect to a man like you), not her cheating.

Regardless of how responsible in the damage to the marriage you are, that does not give her any rights to cheat. That's on her. Now, you staying in this marriage after initially finding her infidelities, tells me that you have not self-respect, dignity, and self-worth. No wonder you're getting what you're getting. It's up to you to man-up (cliche,but it really, if ever needed to be apply to a man, that's you). Find your balls and be a man, that's what you need to do. I can't really understand a man whose wife is having sex with other men and still stay being a supplicant spineless cuckold trying to reconcile. This says a lot about you. what's the next step for you?...clean her up after she comes from having sex with one of her lover? Plus, if she can seat on you and keep you pinned down, dude, you must be a complete weakling. are you by any chance one of those little skinny, soft men that even a child can beat them?

You say you have initiated divorce proceeding, but I wonder how far will you go, if you go through it at all. I doubt you will divorce, but if you do, I'll be glad you proved me wrong.


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## HappilyMarried1 (Jul 21, 2021)

Whubble said:


> have her saying to AP "I told him I didn't **** you, I'm still going with that by the way lol".


Just curious if you have her text actually saying this to her AP in a text what did she say when you confronted her with this in her own words or her own actual text.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> Sounds very convenient to be depersonalised when you are cheating.


Yeh. Must admit thats the weirdest excuse I have heard yet. Anything can now apparently be excused if you have some sort of 'condition'.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Not responding to the whole thing, as I don't have time, but you are under no obligation to cause further mental distress and anxiety to yourself in order to curtail hers. Anyone who claims such is the abusive one. Telling someone they have to give up their mental and emotional health for another is gaslighting at its highest. She is responsible for her own mental and emotional health, not you.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Yeh. Must admit thats the weirdest excuse I have heard yet. Anything can now apparently be excused if you have some sort of 'condition'.


We knew it was a matter of time, though, right? Call being selfish and lying and deliberately hurting and humiliating someone else a 'disease' and now you can't help it.  Anything to avoid personal responsibility.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> We knew it was a matter of time, though, right? Call being selfish and lying and deliberately hurting and humiliating someone else a 'disease' and now you can't help it.  Anything to avoid personal responsibility.


There is a 'condition' or 'illness' that covers every bad behaviour now.


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## Whubble (10 mo ago)

HappilyMarried1 said:


> Just curious if you have her text actually saying this to her AP in a text what did she say when you confronted her with this in her own words or her own actual text.


At first she attempted to deny saying that. Everything I confront her with a I have to prove. Everything. She will not admit to anything until her face is rubbed in it. And then she gets mad at me and will reluctantly admit to it, but then spin it. So in this case she says that I am misinterpreting or "twisting" her words and taking things out of context. She has also said to this, "well how do you know this isn't just a continuation of the fantasy"?


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Whubble said:


> Everything I confront her with a I have to prove.


You don't HAVE to.
You can be done with this right now if you want.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> I don't care what anybody say, but when a man becomes the stay at home parent, and the wife becomes the breadwinner, the next logical step is the woman seeing her stay at home man as less than a man. Anyway, you do seem to be a beta or below at the least. Therefore is your fault, but for being a weak pathetic man (you are teaching your children how to lose respect to a man like you), not her cheating.


This, 100%


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Every time you think about reconciliation just think about how your wife got ****ed my this guy and loved every minute of it. She probably gave him all the sex and dirty things he wanted while you sat at home in a dead bedroom. She probably came home and kissed you after swallowing his cum.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Get a job, get her out, or you out.
Divorce.


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## Whubble (10 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> although I did read, I didn't have to read past the above sentence. You my friend are a mess of a... man?. No wonder why your wife lost her respect for you as a man. I don't care what anybody say, but when a man becomes the stay at home parent, and the wife becomes the breadwinner, the next logical step is the woman seeing her stay at home man as less than a man. Anyway, you do seem to be a beta or below at the least. Therefore is your fault, but for being a weak pathetic man (you are teaching your children how to lose respect to a man like you), not her cheating.
> 
> Regardless of how responsible in the damage to the marriage you are, that does not give her any rights to cheat. That's on her. Now, you staying in this marriage after initially finding her infidelities, tells me that you have not self-respect, dignity, and self-worth. No wonder you're getting what you're getting. It's up to you to man-up (cliche,but it really, if ever needed to be apply to a man, that's you). Find your balls and be a man, that's what you need to do. I can't really understand a man whose wife is having sex with other men and still stay being a supplicant spineless cuckold trying to reconcile. This says a lot about you. what's the next step for you?...clean her up after she comes from having sex with one of her lover? Plus, if she can seat on you and keep you pinned down, dude, you must be a complete weakling. are you by any chance one of those little skinny, soft men that even a child can beat them?
> 
> You say you have initiated divorce proceeding, but I wonder how far will you go, if you go through it at all. I doubt you will divorce, but if you do, I'll be glad you proved me wrong.


Well, I hear you. And you are correct, overall I tend to be your classic unassertive, Mr. Nice Guy type who has been a doormat throughout this whole relationship.

On the topic of jobs, however, I did spend 15 years in the Army and served in Bosnia and Afghanistan (Combat Engineer/EOD). I was injured and medically released and went on to gain a Masters in Library and Information Studies - admittedly, not a very masculine job since a male librarian is rarer than a male nurse these days. It was while attending school that I was a stay at home parent, so it wasn't necessarily a conscious choice, but more just a convenient set of circumstances that allowed us to save money on daycare, etc. 

For the last three years I have worked as a library manager in a small town - an entry level job in the library field. It doesn't pay spectacularly well and so my wife continues to be the "breadwinner", although once I am established and gain experience, my earning potential far outstrips hers. Its just getting there takes time, too much time apparently. One of the reasons her AP appealed to her (I found a list of his qualities vs. mine as well as some immature schoolgirlish poetry about him) was his "manly job", "manly wage", and his "manly truck". She has also said in our MC sessions that she doesn't find being a librarian "sexy". Whatever, IDGAF.

At the risk of sound defensive, I will also note that I am fairly physically intimidating. 5'11" 235lb barbell lifter. She pinned me down and I let her because I was not going to risk giving her any reason to claim domestic violence on my part. My kids mean everything to me, and will be going for 50/50 custody. She has said that she will go for full custody. Last thing I need is to give her any pretext for making an argument that I am a danger to her or the kids. Her friends have made such insinuations in the last couple months and so I am treading very carefully here (I also deposited my firearms temporarily with a friend for much the same reasons).


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

thunderchad said:


> You wife is a cheater and a liar. What more do you need to know? She ****ed another guy at least three times and still continues talking to him. She has no respect for you whatsoever. You have a dea dbedroom. There is no coming back from this.
> 
> You need to leave her immediately and move on with your life. You'll easily find someone else who will respect you, not lie to you, and not cheat on you. Don't waste any more time worrying about her.
> 
> Start working on yourself. * I can tell you are a little too weak which might have caused this. *Work on yourself, be a man, be strong.


He may, in fact, be “a little too weak,” but under no circumstances did his weakness cause his wife to be a selfish, deceptive, lying, cheating, manipulative, and evil *****. That’s *ALL* on her.

His weakness is certainly making it easier for her to continue to get away with it, but it isn’t responsible for her corrupted character.

~ signed, former wayward wife


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Whubble said:


> Good morning,
> 
> My wife had an affair last summer with three in-person meetups with AP. According to their text messages (I have the whole transcript), they had sex. However, when confronted, and since I had no video evidence, she denied sex by saying that it was all online and nothing happened in real-life. However, I have her arranging this as a cover story by grooming friends that she had told (and who had encouraged) about the affair and I have her saying to AP "I told him I didn't **** you, I'm still going with that by the way lol". SO I don't believe her.
> 
> ...





Whubble said:


> *Any insights into this condition are appreciated.* I can't stand to be around her, and have initiated divorce. But she won't accept it and has gone so far as to sit on me and hold me down in order to get me to talk to her about our relationship. But I know that this will just become another arrow in her quiver when it comes to her smear campaign (which has been ongoing for months now). I will be known to all her family and all our friends as someone who cared so little about her that he gave her this disorder, forced her to cheat, and then left her despite her mental illness.
> 
> Please forgive the wall of text.


She’s an unrepentant piece of ****.

You’re welcome.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Whubble said:


> Well, I hear you. And you are correct, overall I tend to be your classic unassertive, Mr. Nice Guy type who has been a doormat throughout this whole relationship.
> 
> On the topic of jobs, however, I did spend 15 years in the Army and served in Bosnia and Afghanistan (Combat Engineer/EOD). I was injured and medically released and went on to gain a Masters in Library and Information Studies - admittedly, not a very masculine job since a male librarian is rarer than a male nurse these days. It was while attending school that I was a stay at home parent, so it wasn't necessarily a conscious choice, but more just a convenient set of circumstances that allowed us to save money on daycare, etc.
> 
> ...


Certain elements of your story seem very familiar — have you posted this to Reddit as well?


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Whubble said:


> She pinned me down and I let her because I was not going to risk giving her any reason to claim domestic violence on my part.


Good on you for this ^^^

Get a VAR and keep it on you for these kinds of things, also set up some cameras if you can. Protect yourself.
Then call the cops and get a restraining order if she does that crap again.

Remember your training. Survive first then fight like hell. 

She is now the enemy. Treat her that way.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Whubble You wife thinks you are addicted to porn. But she is addicted to ****ing other men.

Incidentally an addiction to porn isn't grounds for divorce in Canada. But addiction to ****ing other men is grounds for divorce. And there's no one year waiting period under those circumstances.





How to Apply for a Divorce


Department of Justice Canada's Internet site




www.justice.gc.ca


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

OP, you are an adult, if you want to put up with this crap, that's your choice.

However, you should NOT be raising children in this environment, with a lady like that.

Put your children's needs ahead of yours and do the right thing... for them.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rob_1 said:


> although I did read, I didn't have to read past the above sentence. You my friend are a mess of a... man?. No wonder why your wife lost her respect for you as a man. I don't care what anybody say, but when a man becomes the stay at home parent, and the wife becomes the breadwinner, the next logical step is the woman seeing her stay at home man as less than a man. Anyway, you do seem to be a beta or below at the least. Therefore is your fault, but for being a weak pathetic man (you are teaching your children how to lose respect to a man like you), not her cheating.
> 
> Regardless of how responsible in the damage to the marriage you are, that does not give her any rights to cheat. That's on her. Now, you staying in this marriage after initially finding her infidelities, tells me that you have not self-respect, dignity, and self-worth. No wonder you're getting what you're getting. It's up to you to man-up (cliche,but it really, if ever needed to be apply to a man, that's you). Find your balls and be a man, that's what you need to do. I can't really understand a man whose wife is having sex with other men and still stay being a supplicant spineless cuckold trying to reconcile. This says a lot about you. what's the next step for you?...clean her up after she comes from having sex with one of her lover? Plus, if she can seat on you and keep you pinned down, dude, you must be a complete weakling. are you by any chance one of those little skinny, soft men that even a child can beat them?
> 
> You say you have initiated divorce proceeding, but I wonder how far will you go, if you go through it at all. I doubt you will divorce, but if you do, I'll be glad you proved me wrong.


It may be true in their case that he sees her as less than a man, but some marriages work well with the guy being a stay at home parent for a time.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Whubble said:


> Well, I hear you. And you are correct, overall I tend to be your classic unassertive, Mr. Nice Guy type who has been a doormat throughout this whole relationship.
> 
> On the topic of jobs, however, I did spend 15 years in the Army and served in Bosnia and Afghanistan (Combat Engineer/EOD). I was injured and medically released and went on to gain a Masters in Library and Information Studies - admittedly, not a very masculine job since a male librarian is rarer than a male nurse these days. It was while attending school that I was a stay at home parent, so it wasn't necessarily a conscious choice, but more just a convenient set of circumstances that allowed us to save money on daycare, etc.
> 
> ...


Make sure you have a VAR (voice activated recorder) on you at ALL TIMES and keep it running any time she is around you. You should also expose her cheating to your family, her family, etc.. DO NOT let her hide this in the shadows and make it seem like YOU are the bad guy.
See a shark lawyer ASAP -- separate your money, get all your financial stuff together for the lawyer.

IF her AP has a wife/gf, talk DIRECTLY to them (do not tell your wife) -- and give them the evidence that he cheated.
Start practicing the 180 (The 180) so you can start detaching.
Spend your life for YOU now -- ignore anything she wants/needs. Spend a lot of time with your kids, exercise, do your own hobbies, go out with your own friends. Start living YOUR life.


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## justaguylookingforhelp (Nov 4, 2021)

Most have already said the same thing but you need to get a lawyer and get out of this. Your wife is not going to stop cheating. Even if she does end things with this guy, she'll find somebody else. My ex was not as brazen as your wife, but when she was confronted with the fact that I knew she was cheating, she pulled a lot of the same gaslighting tactics that your wife is pulling. Regardless of whether people want to label you a beta or whatever, the simple fact is that you deserve better. And your kids deserve better. Growing up with two parents in a dysfunctional relationship is much worse than growing up with divorced parents who can be civil with each other. 

You should not accept this from another human being. You may lose time with your kids, but you'll still be better off. I considered trying to reconcile with my ex so I wouldn't lose time with my kids, but I quickly discovered that I was not being a good parent or role model by staying in that relationship because I was more focused on what my ex was doing, etc. I see my kids half the time but that time is way better than when I saw them 100% of the time and was distracted and unhappy. Long story short, I know from personal experience that while it will be hard, you can do better and will be better off getting out of this relationship.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Whubble said:


> *overall I tend to be your classic unassertive, Mr. Nice Guy type who has been a doormat throughout this whole relationship.*


I'm glad that you clarified some of the aspects of your relationship with her. You need to understand that you can be a 7 feet tall man he-man, but if your woman is the breadwinner, then, regardless, eventually she will lose respect for you as a man. All those dudes above her at work will become in her eyes the Alpha, macho men. When the woman gets home and see her homey husband, she sees a less than a man. if you were to read anywhere where there's marital infidelity or problems and the husband is a stay home dad, then, you will realize that this is a pattern, over, and over, and over with women. You my friend, need to up your ante economically, and as a man with the next woman in your life. Read No More Mister Nice Guy. That could be a start to de-pussified yourself. You need to become an assertive, confident, no-nonsense man that has pride, self respect, and dignity if you want to be respected by anyone.

You can start gaining all that with the simple step of presenting her with divorce papers, and follow through. Just prepare yourself as advice here by so many to ensure that she can't have one single motive to snarl you into domestic violence and/or abuse charges. Take all the steps necessary to ensure that. It's a must.

Another step is to counter any and/or all social post about you. Women tend to be expert manipulators at advertising campaigns to gather support when divorcing. You need to be proactive not reactive to anything you might think she's going to pull. Remember, just like in war: planning strategies, and knowing your enemy modus operandi will give you the upper hand. THIS IS WAR, dude, use your military knowledge to strike first ar every move.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> It may be true in their case that he sees her as less than a man, but some marriages work well with the guy being a stay at home parent for a time.


There is NOTHING unmanly about stay at home dads. We all do the best we can for our families, and there is no singular formula for that. Men are men, they don't need external validation to make them men. There is nothing unmasculine about being a stay at home father and nothing unfeminine about being a working mother.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> There is NOTHING unmanly about stay at home dads. We all do the best we can for our families, and there is no singular formula for that. Men are men, they don't need external validation to make them men. There is nothing unmasculine about being a stay at home father and nothing unfeminine about being a working mother.


I actually love seeing a guy doing a really good job of being a full time dad. Not many men can hack it to be be honest. 
The op was in the army for 15 years with tours of duty so clearly is quite a tough guy.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Whubble said:


> Good morning,
> 
> My wife had an affair last summer with three in-person meetups with AP. According to their text messages (I have the whole transcript), they had sex. However, when confronted, and since I had no video evidence, she denied sex by saying that it was all online and nothing happened in real-life. However, I have her arranging this as a cover story by grooming friends that she had told (and who had encouraged) about the affair and I have her saying to AP "I told him I didn't **** you, I'm still going with that by the way lol". SO I don't believe her.
> 
> ...


I stopped reading at the bold. There was, and us now only one thing to do. Stop being the way you are and just divorce her.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> There is NOTHING unmanly about stay at home dads. We all do the best we can for our families, and there is no singular formula for that. Men are men, they don't need external validation to make them men. There is nothing unmasculine about being a stay at home father and nothing unfeminine about being a working mother.


well, so you say. But to quite a few women a stay at home dad is about as unmanly as it gets, and they are pretty much notorious for being cheated on.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> There is NOTHING unmanly about stay at home dads.


This just simply isn't true. Divorce rates are higher for stay at home dads.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Whubble said:


> At first she attempted to deny saying that. Everything I confront her with a I have to prove. Everything. She will not admit to anything until her face is rubbed in it. And then she gets mad at me and will reluctantly admit to it, but then spin it. So in this case she says that I am misinterpreting or "twisting" her words and taking things out of context. She has also said to this, "well how do you know this isn't just a continuation of the fantasy"?


Are you this obtuse?
You divorce her. You’re the stay s as t home dad? Have her pay you alimony abd C I’d support. You don’t have to prove anything. See an attorney abd kick back abd enjoy the **** show.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> The op was in the army for 15 years with tours of duty so clearly is quite a tough guy


And once the betatization process was complete she cheated.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> well, so you say. But to quite a few women a stay at home dad is about as unmanly as it gets, and they are pretty much notorious for being cheated on.


Well, for that matter, to quite a few men there is everything unfeminine about a woman with a fully functioning brain. It's also statistically true that more SAHMs are cheated on than working mothers, that doesn't mean that women should stop staying at home just because some men abuse the situation. 90% of statistics are made up anyway.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> I actually love seeing a guy doing a really good job of being a full time dad. Not many men can hack it to be be honest.
> The op was in the army for 15 years with tours of duty so clearly is quite a tough guy.


I find it interesting that divorce rates are being tied to 'manliness.' 

I also find it sad that so many men think being a good father isn't 'manly.'


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I also find it sad that so many men think being a good father isn't 'manly.'


I'd be willing to bet divorce rates are higher for beta males and for people in relationships without traditional gender roles.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> 90% of statistics are made up anyway.


ha ha. self-defeating comment 
Sorry Texas, I found it funny.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> ha ha. self-defeating comment
> Sorry Texas, I found it funny.


It was supposed to be funny. 😎


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Not having a job and having a family is unmanly to me. How can a man protect abd provide if he has no job? There are circumstances and exceptions. OP’s attitude toward his cheating wife is proving the rule.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Could you please help me out with a timeline, you married her but weren’t really into her in any way, you were using porn (addicted?). You Felt you might be bisexual (did she catch you doing anything online, texting guys, emotional affair etc?) I understand you pointed out that you didn’t explore anything physically.

When you discovered her affair, YOU then committed to the marriage, just as she was wanting to leave you. Or YOU committed to your marriage when she discovered your secret life? Was your marriage sexless from your end?

Is that a good timeline? Meaning YOU committed to the marriage after these events?


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> There is NOTHING unmanly about stay at home dads.


Ok. Just in this site try to find all those OPs that are men exposing their marital problems where their woman has not respect for them, and mostly including infidelity. What's the common denominator to all those men: they all are stay at home dads. Of course, there a few women that they really are happy with their man being a stay at home dad. But just in case that you've been living a sheltered life, around the world, anywhere if the man stay home and the woman brings the bacon, the end result is the woman cheating and losing respect for her partner. That's a fact.

The only circumstances where I see men being supported happily by women around the world is those relationship where the woman is with the man because he's her stud, and she wants him, and no one else for that. You know there's so many names for those dudes.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rob_1 said:


> Ok. Just in this site try to find all those OPs that are men exposing their marital problems where their woman has not respect for them, and mostly including infidelity. What's the common denominator to all those men: they all are stay at home dads. Of course, there a few women that they really are happy with their man being a stay at home dad. But just in case that you've been living a sheltered life, around the world, anywhere if the man stay home and the woman brings the bacon, the end result is the woman cheating and losing respect for her partner. That's a fact.
> 
> The only circumstances where I see men being supported happily by women around the world is those relationship where the woman is with the man because he's her stud, and she wants him, and no one else for that. You know there's so many names for those dudes.


You mean the majority of people on a site that talks about marital problems have marital problems? What a shocking development!

I'm not sure you're correct, there seem to be quite a few posts about infidelity where the man is being used as an ATM by a woman who is fooling around. You'd have to show me some hard data to convince me that every single instance of a woman cheating was because the man wasn't working.

When you look at instances of domestic abuse, they occur most frequently with women who are unemployed and are staying at home being supported by a man. The man has no respect for her, cheats on her and beats her because she has no escape. Statistically, this is a fact. So by your logic, no women should ever stay home with her children, because her husband is going to cheat on her and beat her. After all, it is a fact that women are more likely to be cheated on and beaten if they stay home and don't work. See how statistics can be twisted?

If you don't want to stay at home and be a father, don't. No one is making you do that. But I have a hard time with "this war veteran isn't manly because he's currently taking care of his children."


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

@Rob_1 you're never going to win with a feminist


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## Whubble (10 mo ago)

Luckylucky said:


> Could you please help me out with a timeline, you married her but weren’t really into her in any way, you were using porn (addicted?). You Felt you might be bisexual (did she catch you doing anything online, texting guys, emotional affair etc?) I understand you pointed out that you didn’t explore anything physically.
> 
> When you discovered her affair, YOU then committed to the marriage, just as she was wanting to leave you. Or YOU committed to your marriage when she discovered your secret life? Was your marriage sexless from your end?
> 
> Is that a good timeline? Meaning YOU committed to the marriage after these events?


It is not a good timeline.

I have been committed to the relationship from the very start and was very much into her. I think I used the word "recommitted", meaning that after the initial discovery of her affair, I had wanted a divorce. She talked me down and later in MC, I recommitted to it in an effort to save the marriage. Truth is, her arguments and list of my misdeeds have had me feeling responsible for her affair. In many ways I still do. Porn use is clearly my issue to own and I have now, and have in the past (I even sought therapy for it - the therapist did not agree that I was addicted but did acknowledge that it was causing problems in the relationship), and part of me is sympathetic to her argument that she felt rejected by my porn use. However, she has never forbidden porn, and it was never hidden from her. Indeed, living with army buddies, and her being part of our mutual friend circle, she was well aware that porn was present even before we started dating. Furthermore, we have used porn together and I know that she uses it from time to time as well.

It's all very confusing, since even now, despite her claiming that it was a major factor in her affair, she still has not forbidden it and has even gone so far in the last couple months to suggest I watch it "in order to get some ideas for things we could do".

What has changed since, though, is her continuation of the the affair in January. To my mind, and my porn use notwithstanding, there is NO excuse for her continuing contact with AP and hooking up with him in January. 

As to bisexuality. I have entertained - very mild and occasional - homoerotic fantasies. At the time I was on antidepressants as I was dealing with severe back pain. This of course led to erectile dysfunction and low libido and an increasing discomfort with my sexuality. There was nothing inappropriate about my exploration of this issue. I did not start texting men, lurking on Grindr, or anything of the sort. I started reading some of the LGBT resources that are out there on the web, read books on the topic, and started seeing a therapist. I acknowledge that this did cause my wife some insecurity and anxiety for which I tried to be as reassuring as possible. At no time did I ever consider myself fully bisexual, as I have no desire for a romantic or emotional relationship with a man. Purely sexual, and if you must have a label, I might consider calling myself heteroflexible. However, it is not something that is so compelling to me that I have at any time felt the need to step out of the relationship in order to explore further. I made my choice when I say "I do" and am content with that. 

I hope this is clarifying.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Whubble said:


> What has changed since, though, is her continuation of the the affair in January. To my mind, and my porn use notwithstanding, there is NO excuse for her continuing contact with AP and hooking up with him in January.


Nothing that is going on with you justifies her cheating. It's no different than "I cheated because my wife got old" or "I cheated because my wife spent too much time with the baby" or "I cheated because my husband only cared about work." Look, cheaters cheat. They're bad people. Bottom line. This isn't your fault, this is HER fault. 

Thank you for your service.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You are not to blame for her affair!she made many choices to have the affair - all on her own.

And there isn’t one single reason to chaseHER truth. Since she isn’t willing to DO 150% effort to repair the damage SHE has caused - you have nothing to work on - divorce her! She gives women a bad name. 

You should never make the effort when the other person is the one cheating. Sit back - see IF the cheater tries fixing hat they’ve purposely ruined! 

You should have left her the minute she wasn’t OFFERING a you truth and evidence that SHE is changing!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Whubble said:


> It is not a good timeline.
> 
> I have been committed to the relationship from the very start and was very much into her. I think I used the word "recommitted", meaning that after the initial discovery of her affair, I had wanted a divorce. She talked me down and later in MC, I recommitted to it in an effort to save the marriage. Truth is, her arguments and list of my misdeeds have had me feeling responsible for her affair. In many ways I still do. Porn use is clearly my issue to own and I have now, and have in the past (I even sought therapy for it - the therapist did not agree that I was addicted but did acknowledge that it was causing problems in the relationship), and part of me is sympathetic to her argument that she felt rejected by my porn use. However, she has never forbidden porn, and it was never hidden from her. Indeed, living with army buddies, and her being part of our mutual friend circle, she was well aware that porn was present even before we started dating. Furthermore, we have used porn together and I know that she uses it from time to time as well.
> 
> ...


TMI will kill any sympathy you deserve.

In any future relationships, reveal all your background info, sparingly.
I think your wife knows you better than you think.

Plus, she leverages your oddities to her benefit.

That period were you suffered from ED was a killer in your relationship.
Too much porn use can contribute to this ailment, methinks.

Being honest with us (about everything) is good, to a future mate, no sir.

She is still a rat, nevertheless.....

Just Sayin'



_N-_


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Whubble said:


> Good morning,
> 
> My wife had an affair last summer with three in-person meetups with AP. According to their text messages (I have the whole transcript), they had sex. However, when confronted, and since I had no video evidence, she denied sex by saying that it was all online and nothing happened in real-life. However, I have her arranging this as a cover story by grooming friends that she had told (and who had encouraged) about the affair and I have her saying to AP "I told him I didn't **** you, I'm still going with that by the way lol". SO I don't believe her.
> 
> ...



I have not read through the whole thread yet but she is definitely a cheat.

The worst part is that she is doing this with young kids, damaging their lives, costing you tons of $ and she will continue to blame you and make you look bad.

I would hire a shark of an attorney. Obviously you have one but how aggressive is he/she ? Next I would get the word out on her lies and so forth if she doesn't accept an amicable divorce. She will ruin your reputation by claiming that she is innocent and now you are dumping her and 3 kids for your own gain. Beat her to the messaging. I would also say that, based on her comments, she is a little bit narcissistic. She is the one who would throw a false DV order in your face so be prepared for a last second evacuation and get necessary documents and items into a safe place outside the home before she launches on her self entitled tirade.

She retired ? How old is she ?


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Mr.Married said:


> Yeah it’s your fault all right.
> 
> It’s your fault you stayed
> 
> ...


yeah. The only credit I will give is that he filed. He needs to get this animal out of his life asap. I would rather have kids part time and save myself than live with someone like this and lose myself.

He hopefully has info and evidence (he seems to) to give to his attorney


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## Whubble (10 mo ago)

SunCMars said:


> TMI will kill any sympathy you deserve.
> 
> In any future relationships, reveal all your background info, sparingly.
> I think your wife knows you better than you think.
> ...


Perhaps, but it is not sympathy that I am looking for. I want honest appraisals and insight, and for that, I need to be fully honest too. 

It is true that the ED I suffered was hard on the relationship. Let me be clear though, my porn use was never so heavy or consistent that it was the cause of ED. I am not, nor have I ever been a masturbate five times a day and leave myself completely dissipated kind of guy. We're talking three times a week? The ED was anorgasmia caused by the antidepressants and is a very common side effect of SSRI use in men (women too, I understand). Funny thing is, she was the one who encouraged their use at the time too.

Nonetheless, my wife does point to this period of relative inactivity (though I did try things other than PIV sex to try and maintain some level of intimacy) as another instance of our lack of a sex life. While we have never had a dead bedroom, the last three years have taken a toll on our sex life. She has been cosleeping with our two youngest children for the entirety of that time, leaving us both dissatisfied with out sex life. I try to sneak her away on the weekend while the kids are distracted by the TV, but they are still young enough that they are prone to coming and looking for us when we leave the room, so sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. However, with the pandemic, she has been working from home almost the entire time, and there have been periods here where the libraries have been shut down as well. While the kids have been in school I was quite regularly dragging her away from her computer for sex during the daytime, particularly over the last year. So, I am kind of baffled by her insistence that we were not having sex, because we were.

We also do not have consistent child care. Her mother is immunocompromised and is terrified of COVID, so we haven't seen her in the better part of three years outside of occasional visits on the front lawn. Her dad is in poor health after having had both hips replaced, a knee replaced, a foot surgery, a stent, and just recently, a gall bladder removal. 

Admittedly, though, I haven't been very adventurous in bed and have not made enough of an effort to get us out of that rut. Neither had she, until she met her AP. In fact, this was one of the clues that something was amiss. One of the things she has said to her friends is that she found it all very exciting. Surprise! No doubt it was.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Whubble said:


> So, I am kind of baffled by her insistence that we were not having sex, because we were.


We call that 'gaslighting.' She is lying and rewriting the past to cover for her behavior.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

She will dream up any excuse so she isn’t accountable for how she participated.

Stop blaming yourself! Stop thinking you are responsible for her spreading her legs for others.

She ruined your marriage! Why are you still with her? YOU are responsible for staying while she’s been a tramp.


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## Whubble (10 mo ago)

wmn1 said:


> I have not read through the whole thread yet but she is definitely a cheat.
> 
> The worst part is that she is doing this with young kids, damaging their lives, costing you tons of $ and she will continue to blame you and make you look bad.
> 
> ...


We are both early 40's. Not retired.

Funny, my therapist has said the same thing, that she sounds narcissistic. I am reading "caretaking the borderline or narcissist" right now and it very much fits our pattern. 

She has been running a smear campaign for months already. And probably long before that as well, considering that her friends were quite ready to encourage her to have an affair. She is very prone to aggrandizing herself at my expense and at minimizing my contributions (particularly my financial contribution) to the family. She has a long history of oversharing our relationship and this is something that I have long had a problem with.

Her narrative is already out there, and so she is way ahead of me in this regard. There is not a person in my life, except my one friend here, who she has not contacted already to smear me - and this includes my dad and my sister to whom she has sent a couple of nasty emails and text messages. Unfortunately, I am quite isolated here. My family resides three provinces over, and other than the one friend I have here, have no one outside of her friends, acquaintances, and family. I am an introverted and generally socially anxious person and she has done a great job over the years of guilting me into staying home and so most of my previous friendships have melted away and I have not felt free in a long time to go out on my own and make new friends. She either guilts me about leaving her with the kids, or she accuses me of wanting to cheat.

My lawyer seems to be pretty good and has been well-reviewed by others. So hopefully I am in good hands there.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Oh honey, she is a monster. I hope your lawyer SHREDS her.


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

Whubble said:


> Good morning,
> 
> My wife had an affair last summer with three in-person meetups with AP. According to their text messages (I have the whole transcript), they had sex. However, when confronted, and since I had no video evidence, she denied sex by saying that it was all online and nothing happened in real-life. However, I have her arranging this as a cover story by grooming friends that she had told (and who had encouraged) about the affair and I have her saying to AP "I told him I didn't **** you, I'm still going with that by the way lol". SO I don't believe her.
> 
> ...


You gifted her with reconciliation when she should have worked years for it, yet you gave it to her for free weeks later. Just human nature will tell you, you cheapened your value to her. In her mind she's saying, I can fk another man and lie to my husband and STILL GET HIM TO WANT TO BE WITH ME. 

I'm not telling you what to do, however I am telling you to place yourself in her shoes and understand why you were and will be disrespected if you don't respect yourself. Imagine you're a kid and you took your parents car, got drunk, totaled it and the next day your parents handed you keys to the family's second car despite you taking the first car without permission and drank, drove and crashed THEIR car? 

You've empowered her and disempowered yourself. What fears a cheater more than ANYTHING is a betrayed spouse who knows their value, prioritizes their own emotional health and happiness, and has the conviction to change the course of their misfortune decisively, despite the pain. Stuff changes in your favor quickly.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Whubble said:


> I hope this is clarifying.


Nothing yet clarifies why you would want to remain married to this woman. There's nothing there but more of the same, if you stay with her. And it sounds like you have some things to sort out on your own as well. But if you don't already realize this... nothing here can help you.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

We train people how to treat us. You have trained her - to think/know she can disrespect you and treat you like crap - and expect that you will stay.

When do you start living YOUR life? Go do what you choose to do and don’t answer to any of her questions/inquiries. 

Start living man. She’s had you in an enclosed cage for years. It time you disregard anything she wants and start taking care of yourself!

Move half your money and assets into an acct with your name only!

Do you own a house? Are you on the title to that house?


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

Whubble said:


> We are both early 40's. Not retired.
> 
> Funny, *my therapist has said the same thing, that she sounds narcissistic.* I am reading "caretaking the borderline or narcissist" right now and it very much fits our pattern.
> 
> ...


Get a new therapist, he/she is unprofessional and unproductive.
The focus is on you, not what your spouse is doing. Being a victim will elicit sympathy but this is your life isn't it. It isn't as though you will be asked about others at the end, or someone else will die for you.
Grow up.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Your wife has only tricked and used you because you have allowed it.
Stop allowing it.

Read “no more mr nice guy”


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Oh honey, she is a monster. I hope your lawyer SHREDS her.


Monsters are pedophiles, rapists, murderers, serial killers, genocidal lunatics, etc...but on tam, a 'monster' is a person who cheats on their spouse. 
Jerry Springer it is then, lol.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Whubble said:


> It is not a good timeline.
> 
> I have been committed to the relationship from the very start and was very much into her. I think I used the word "recommitted", meaning that after the initial discovery of her affair, I had wanted a divorce. She talked me down and later in MC, I recommitted to it in an effort to save the marriage. Truth is, her arguments and list of my misdeeds have had me feeling responsible for her affair. In many ways I still do. Porn use is clearly my issue to own and I have now, and have in the past (I even sought therapy for it - the therapist did not agree that I was addicted but did acknowledge that it was causing problems in the relationship), and part of me is sympathetic to her argument that she felt rejected by my porn use. However, she has never forbidden porn, and it was never hidden from her. Indeed, living with army buddies, and her being part of our mutual friend circle, she was well aware that porn was present even before we started dating. Furthermore, we have used porn together and I know that she uses it from time to time as well.
> 
> ...


NONE of this is a viable excuse for her to CHEAT. If any of these were really a problem for her, then she should have divorced you. The cheating is 100% on HER -- and she has YOU believing it is your fault. She is being very manipulative and is very good at turning the story around on you.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You have been committed to her yet she isn’t committed to you.

Does it even make sense to you? It’s a one way marriage.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

jlg07 said:


> NONE of this is a viable excuse for her to CHEAT. If any of these were really a problem for her, then she should have divorced you. The cheating is 100% on HER -- and she has YOU believing it is your fault. She is being very manipulative and is very good at turning the story around on you.


I realize that you did not direct this to me and in no way mean to be disrespectful.
Of course "NONE of this is a viable excuse for her to CHEAT.' This is 100% on HER."

It would be more beneficial for the OP to understand that every day he chooses to remain after HE PICKED HER and continues to REMAIN in this relationship is on him, not HER. 
OP has agency and responsibility for himself and his present and future. Therapy should be about him, not her.
Completely irresponsible on the therapists part and money grubbing (surprise, not) to do otherwise. 

Spending a thread bashing his wife will get him no where. A person who is confident will not be manipulated in the first place.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

You should stop concentrating on fixing your wife and try to figure out why continue to allow her to disrespect you. You are only hurting yourself. You sound codependent to me and you are making excuses for her by acting like if you diagnose her with something it justifies her treatment of you. It doesn't make it OK for her to continue to abuse you. Even if this diagnoses is true, then that means she is too mentally ill to be married and it's still time to move on. This is the moral thing to do. Some people just don't have the stuff to be married.

It's like the scorpion and the frog, it's in their nature.

Sometimes the moral and healthy thing is for the marriage to end. Particularly when there is ongoing abuse in it. You have a moral responsibly to protect the innocent even if the innocent is yourself. When you allow yourself to be repeatedly abused you cheapen marriage, and it does damage to everyone around you who watches that. Love or fear is not a good enough reason to allow this to continue. It's wrong.

Not saying its easy, it's terribly hard but at least if you leave the abuse stops. She is in an ongoing affair and whether it's mental illness or the fact that she is a sociopath it doesn't matter. What matters if that you start doing things to empower yourself, you find your courage and leave. If you post on here we will help you, I am sure your friends and family will too.

In the end you will be better for it. Come on man, it's time.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Whubble said:


> Well, I hear you. And you are correct, overall I tend to be your classic unassertive, Mr. Nice Guy type who has been a doormat throughout this whole relationship.
> 
> On the topic of jobs, however, I did spend 15 years in the Army and served in Bosnia and Afghanistan (Combat Engineer/EOD). I was injured and medically released and went on to gain a Masters in Library and Information Studies - admittedly, not a very masculine job since a male librarian is rarer than a male nurse these days. It was while attending school that I was a stay at home parent, so it wasn't necessarily a conscious choice, but more just a convenient set of circumstances that allowed us to save money on daycare, etc.
> 
> ...


they always say they will go for full custody. The courts don't allow that anymore unless you will be in jail for 50 years. That is a stupid and empty threat by her. There's no justification of it. Get a strong attorney and I would like to see you get primary custody since she is the one who screwed up.

I wish you would have filed a restraining order when she pinned you down. You would be in the catbird's seat now.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

You do realize that you only get one life don't you? News flash: this is it.

Get control of your life and start enjoying it.

Step 1 is to divorce your cheating / lying life as fast as you possibly can. You'll get alimony and child support and likely primary custody, just engage a lawyer.

You should be beyond pissed your wife did this and not tolerate one second of it.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You don’t need a diagnosis. You already have her actions and that tells you what you need to know - that you don’t want her anymore.

She checked out long ago.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

sokillme said:


> You should stop concentrating on fixing your wife and try to figure out why continue to allow her to disrespect you. You are only hurting yourself. You sound codependent to me and you are making excuses for her by acting like if you diagnose her with something it justifies her treatment of you. It doesn't make it OK for her to continue to abuse you. Even if this diagnoses is true, then that means she is too mentally ill to be married and it's still time to move on. This is the moral thing to do. Some people just don't have the stuff to be married.
> 
> It's like the scorpion and the frog, it's in their nature.
> 
> ...


exactly !!


----------



## Whubble (10 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> We train people how to treat us. You have trained her - to think/know she can disrespect you and treat you like crap - and expect that you will stay.
> 
> When do you start living YOUR life? Go do what you choose to do and don’t answer to any of her questions/inquiries.
> 
> ...


We do own a house, and yes I am on the title and mortgage.

The house is a contentious issue. She insists that I move out if I decide to leave. I will refuse on the advice of my lawyer. I will not be able to keep the house, as I will not be able to afford it on my own. My hesitation to leave has a lot to do with the finances. While I have gotten a pre-approval for a mortgage in an amount that would allow me to afford a townhouse/rowhouse, the money would be very tight. Being the lower income earner means I would be entitled to child support and even spousal support, although my lawyer has advised me that because of the relatively small income disparity, I would be unlikely to receive both. Of course, child support is dependent upon me winning 50/50 custody, something she has said she won't allow.

Her thought is that if I leave, her and her father will just walk into the bank and buy me out. She doesn't realize that it is not quite that simple. Her father is also trying to scheme and find a way to buy me out without having to pay me the equity. What he did (mind you, in the early 80's) was to stop paying the mortgage until it went into foreclosure. At that time you have the option then to pay out the remaining balance on the mortgage. He thinks, then, that if this happens she will not have to pay out my share of the equity. I don't think he/she will get away with something like this, but nonetheless it does reveal something as to their intentions which leaves me rather unsettled. 

She insists also that I would be left with nothing else as far as the kids go and that I would not be entitled to any of their furniture, etc. as she has paid for all of that. Largely true, as the furniture has generally (though not exclusively) been paid for by her while our extensive home renovations have been paid for by me (and completed by me, as well...lots of sweat equity). Whatever, I understand that she is full of ****, and obviously does not understand the concept of marital property and the division of assets that that involves. Honestly though, I would be happy enough to get out with my firearms, books, and woodworking tools. The rest of it I would happily walk away from. As I said though, it does reveal something of their intentions and suggests that things could get pretty contentious, pretty quick.


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## Whubble (10 mo ago)

wmn1 said:


> they always say they will go for full custody. The courts don't allow that anymore unless you will be in jail for 50 years. That is a stupid and empty threat by her. There's no justification of it. Get a strong attorney and I would like to see you get primary custody since she is the one who screwed up.
> 
> I wish you would have filed a restraining order when she pinned you down. You would be in the catbird's seat now.


Her rationale for full custody is based solely on my income and her perception that it would not be sufficient to support three kids. I have budgeted it out and think that it is doable, even without child support, but it would be very tight. It is, aside from child custody worries, my single greatest obstacle. She will be absolutely livid if she ends up having to pay me child support, and foresee a major fight if that comes to pass.

Of course, I could go out and get another job. This is true, however, starting a new job means at least six months probation, reducing the possibility of getting a mortgage in the very near future and meaning another six months of having to pretend.

I have no family that I can live with here, and have only one friend who lives in a house that he rents.

My best option would be to rotate a week on/off in the house. I.e. I stay with my friend for a week, while she is in the house, whereupon we switch and she goes to live with her mom, dad, AP, IDGAF.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

So get her to agree to put the house up for sale.

After the settlement is reached you should look in to earning more money.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Whubble said:


> Her rationale for full custody is based solely on my income and her perception that it would not be sufficient to support three kids. I have budgeted it out and think that it is doable, even without child support, but it would be very tight. It is, aside from child custody worries, my single greatest obstacle. She will be absolutely livid if she ends up having to pay me child support, and foresee a major fight if that comes to pass.
> 
> Of course, I could go out and get another job. This is true, however, starting a new job means at least six months probation, reducing the possibility of getting a mortgage in the very near future and meaning another six months of having to pretend.
> 
> ...


fight it, man. The system has changed. They want a good co-parenting situation. I am an expert in this field. Don't budge. She doesn't deserve anything but will get much. Limit what you give.If she makes more, go for child support and alimony. Don't let her up.

You talk about getting a second job. Hell, make her get one.

Yes you could be hit on legal fees but capitulation means you will be held down for a long time. Fight, see where it takes you.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

She's funny. She's got a lot of undue confidence about the strength of her position. Keep her naive as long as possible. She will become very angry when someone rational explains the law to her. Document every threat she makes. Carry a VAR (voice-activated recorder) on you at all times in case she decides to make a false accusation of domestic violence (this is quite common, especially as things get more contentious). 

If she wants to buy you out of the house, you can first publicly list the house at a price that is acceptable to both of you. If her father's offer is the best one, then there's no shame in accepting it. If her father can make a direct "as is" offer that will cut out middleman commissions, then all the better. Choose whatever is most profitable for you. Just make sure an attorney is involved every step of the way. 

If the furniture was paid for her out of commingled funds (e.g., a joint account) then she likely doesn't have a leg to stand on.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Stop engaging, and start planning an adequate exit. The wall of crap that has been thrown at you is a monument to her various infidelities. I note that you are a Canadian, essentially no fault, therefore. What you are looking for is your ultimate reason to terminate this relationship with just cause. To that end, it would likely involve having her followed, and getting prima facie evidence. There are any number of investigative techniques available here, one by "Weightlifter" is comprehensive. Beyond that, a private investigator is a relatively good investment.


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## balbichi (Sep 17, 2021)

The OP posted same story in SI and reddit few months back. The things is people over there gave him same advice as here. One of the main advice was given to OP to work on his self esteem issue. I doubt if Op actually listened to those.


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## Whubble (10 mo ago)

balbichi said:


> The OP posted same story in SI and reddit few months back. The things is people over there gave him same advice as here. One of the main advice was given to OP to work on his self esteem issue. I doubt if Op actually listened to those.


It’s true. It’s a process and therapy


balbichi said:


> The OP posted same story in SI and reddit few months back. The things is people over there gave him same advice as here. One of the main advice was given to OP to work on his self esteem issue. I doubt if Op actually listened to those.


Did too. Curious to see whether there might be differences in opinions on a more general marriage board.

Also, need the motivation to remove myself from this situation. I am listening, in fact.

It is a process for someone like me and it is something I am working on. But it's slow. And therapy is available - with my finances - about once a month only.


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## Going on 22 years (10 mo ago)

Whubble said:


> Good morning,
> 
> My wife had an affair last summer with three in-person meetups with AP. According to their text messages (I have the whole transcript), they had sex. However, when confronted, and since I had no video evidence, she denied sex by saying that it was all online and nothing happened in real-life. However, I have her arranging this as a cover story by grooming friends that she had told (and who had encouraged) about the affair and I have her saying to AP "I told him I didn't **** you, I'm still going with that by the way lol". SO I don't believe her.
> 
> ...


You said you might be gay. That could be a problem in a marriage to a woman, no? She might not be very happy and she might feel like she isn’t “enough” for you. It sounds like it was a pretty huge deal and you even “sought therapy” for it. And you blame her for seeking comfort elsewhere? Did you tell her you were actually attracted to men when you asked her to commit her entire life with you and have 3 children? It sounds like maybe you should be taking that polygraph. She’s just trying to have a decent life and feel attractive in the world and connect with her kids. You - have rejected her. This is all just her response.


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## Going on 22 years (10 mo ago)

Whubble said:


> At first she attempted to deny saying that. Everything I confront her with a I have to prove. Everything. She will not admit to anything until her face is rubbed in it. And then she gets mad at me and will reluctantly admit to it, but then spin it. So in this case she says that I am misinterpreting or "twisting" her words and taking things out of context. She has also said to this, "well how do you know this isn't just a continuation of the fantasy"?


You “rub her face in it”? Nice.


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## Whubble (10 mo ago)

Going on 22 years said:


> You said you might be gay. That could be a problem in a marriage to a woman, no? She might not be very happy and she might feel like she isn’t “enough” for you. It sounds like it was a pretty huge deal and you even “sought therapy” for it. And you blame her for seeking comfort elsewhere? Did you tell her you were actually attracted to men when you asked her to commit her entire life with you and have 3 children? It sounds like maybe you should be taking that polygraph. She’s just trying to have a decent life and feel attractive in the world and connect with her kids. You - have rejected her. This is all just her response.


No. Nowhere did I say that I might be gay. Nowhere. I do not, and did not have any desire for a romantic or emotional relationship with a man and have stated as such here. What I shared with my wife is that occasionally I have homoerotic fantasies. What I have learned, is that this is in fact, relatively common - not that many of us will admit it. 

Before we were dating, I saw my wife kiss a girl. Is she secretly gay?

Nonetheless, perhaps you are right? Perhaps my wife interpreted this in the same way you have. I don't know, she has not discussed this with me.

And, this was also approximately eight years ago. I have proven my commitment and fidelity both during and after this period.


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## Whubble (10 mo ago)

Going on 22 years said:


> You “rub her face in it”? Nice.


Would "when I present her with the evidence" be more to your liking?

I have not even so much as raised my voice or called her names during this whole ordeal, while she has done both. 

Even if a poor choice of words, the point remains that I have to prove everything I say because her default position is denial.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Things change when you change your actions.

Nothing changes if nothing changes. This is up to you to start changing everything. That means doing everything you normally do in contrary (opposite) action. That would get you new results.

Leave it the same = you get the same.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Whubble said:


> Even if a poor choice of words, the point remains that I have to prove everything I say because her default position is denial.


No, you don’t.
You want to get her to acknowledge her wrongdoing and change because of it.

But guess what.
She knows it already and doesn’t care enough to fix it with you.

You don’t have to prove a single thing.
You can be done with this right now.


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## Going on 22 years (10 mo ago)

Whubble said:


> No. Nowhere did I say that I might be gay. Nowhere. I do not, and did not have any desire for a romantic or emotional relationship with a man and have stated as such here. What I shared with my wife is that occasionally I have homoerotic fantasies. What I have learned, is that this is in fact, relatively common - not that many of us will admit it.
> 
> Before we were dating, I saw my wife kiss a girl. Is she secretly gay?
> 
> ...


You went to therapy to explore - and devote money and time- to your potential interest in men. Pretty sure any wife would feel pretty darn hurt, confused and yes- angry about that. And she probably (she shouldn’t!) have shared it with her friends who probably condoned her affairs because of it.
You can say you were working on oneself etc., but in reality it’s more than that. It’s an emotional pursuit/effort outside the marriage - and to think it won’t affect the marriage is a mistake, in my opinion. You make a subtle insult that she hasn’t wanted “to discuss this” with you. Pretty sure most wives don’t want to discuss their husband’s attraction to men. Is it common on both sides to have fantasies, ok-sure. But you went to a therapist about your fantasies so it seems more than that. I am not insulting you - I am just saying that I would not assume it Is not significant in a marriage. These are just my opinions and I don’t know you- so take them for what they are worth. I just see that all your potential efforts to “find yourself” whether it hurts your marriage or not… are explained away and hers are not. She might be the worst wife in the world…I don’t know…but you married her and had kids with her…so maybe she isn’t all bad.


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## Whubble (10 mo ago)

Going on 22 years said:


> You went to therapy to explore - and devote money and time- to your potential interest in men. Pretty sure any wife would feel pretty darn hurt, confused and yes- angry about that. And she probably (she shouldn’t!) have shared it with her friends who probably condoned her affairs because of it.
> You can say you were working on oneself etc., but in reality it’s more than that. It’s an emotional pursuit/effort outside the marriage - and to think it won’t affect the marriage is a mistake, in my opinion. You make a subtle insult that she hasn’t wanted “to discuss this” with you. Pretty sure most wives don’t want to discuss their husband’s attraction to men. Is it common on both sides to have fantasies, ok-sure. But you went to a therapist about your fantasies so it seems more than that. I am not insulting you - I am just saying that I would not assume it Is not significant in a marriage. These are just my opinions and I don’t know you- so take them for what they are worth. I just see that all your potential efforts to “find yourself” whether it hurts your marriage or not… are explained away and hers are not. She might be the worst wife in the world…I don’t know…but you married her and had kids with her…so maybe she isn’t all bad.


I was in the Army at the time and had essentially unlimited free access to therapy. At the time I was going for other marital issues as well as dealing with chronic severe back pain (culminating in back surgery around 2014). 

My wife uses my sexual identity issues not so much to rationalise her affair, but more in order to guilt me into overlooking it. 

I understand that it may not be something that she wants to discuss. But perhaps, if it was such an issue that it lead to an affair, it might have been worth having that discussion. Of course, I accept that I didn't go out of my way to discuss it either, though I did try to reassure her that I was not about to just up and leave her for a man.

Ultimately, I can see her (and your) point. And this is part of why I am still here - aside from my (obvious) self-esteem problems and lack of assertiveness. Part of me does accept responsibility (to the point of self-blame) even though I find many aspects of her arguments non-compelling (such as the lack of affection and sex being laid entirely at my feet). I guess what I have been after is an admission from her that she did in fact have a physical affair. Because without which, there can be no healing on my part and ultimately no reconciliation. Perhaps this is just "hopium", but I don't see a path forward without some acknowledgement from her of what happened and some genuine remorse. Because, ultimately, this is no way to heal a marriage. And perhaps I'm a fool to even think that it can be, at this point.

Please don't take me for hostile. Your arguments are refreshing in that they tend to depart from the standard that one finds in these places.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Your wife is grasping at straws to justify her actions. While she may have an official diagnosis, it doesn’t negate that fact that she is still in control of her decisions.

At this point you need to decide what you want your life to look like. She’s shown you over and over again that she will not stop the affair and doesn’t respect your marriage.

I would bet my life savings that your wife would have had the affair even if you were the breadwinner. That is a character flaw in her and not a reflection of your worth.


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## justaguylookingforhelp (Nov 4, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> No, you don’t.
> You want to get her to acknowledge her wrongdoing and change because of it.
> 
> But guess what.
> ...


100% this. OP, I get where you are coming from--I am the type of person who wants people to acknowledge when they are wrong and remedy that. But as BeyondRepair writes here, people don't always play along with that. And some people know what they are doing is wrong and don't change. There will be no light bulb moment. Your wife is not going to change her actions just because you catch her in a lie or have proof. I know this from experience. 

It is a cliche, but when people show you who they are, believe them. Actions speak much louder than words and your wife's actions are those of someone who is not going to change.

Look, I get that it is easy for all of us that aren't living your life to tell you to walk away and you'll be better for it. I acknowledge that it isn't as easy for the person involved. And there are probably some co-dependency issues and I am sure you don't want to lose time with your kids. But trust me when I tell you, as someone who was in a similar situation as you but was also slow to move on, that you are better off getting out. Your wife is not going to change so you have to choose between moving on and trying to find happiness out of the relationship or staying in it and being unhappy. Even ending a bad relationship has a mourning period, but you deserve better than this and you need to see that and take action to get out.


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