# Mismatched Drives & Compromise



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

How does everyone handle their mismatched drives in their marriage? Who compromises more? Do you meet in the middle, or does one person get more say?

For the HD partner, do you ever feel guilty requesting sex when you know they don't want it and it's just for you?

When does it cross the line into selfishness?

:scratchhead:


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## BigMrE (Jan 14, 2014)

For many years, we never really reached compromise, unless by "compromise" you mean that our sex life was always if and only if my LD wife was interested, and just for the activities she was interested in. If she wasn't interested it didn't happen, and when we was interested then I damn well better hop to and perform as to not hurt her feelings by rejecting her advances. I think that is usually how these situations seem to play out.

Fortunately, after years of trying to work through it and also my all but threatening to leave if she didn't turn things around, we made some other changes, things have been getting better. And part of that improvement has been her making more of an effort to keep me more satisfied even at times she isn't completely into it. I feel zero guilt about wanting her.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

TheCuriousWife said:


> How does everyone handle their mismatched drives in their marriage?


I will speak from my wife's side, cause her drive is much lower than mine.

She simply focuses on my drive and makes sure I'm happy (and some). 

There are also time when I stand back and not meet my needs, to give her a break and offset the compromise as well. Even though that happens much less often.

In the end, even though she might not be in the mood......when we are done, she is glad we did it.




TheCuriousWife said:


> Who compromises more? Do you meet in the middle, or does one person get more say?


Wife compromises more on my end. Sometimes we meet in the middle.

More say? No, there is no dictatorship of any kind in our marriage. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> For the HD partner, do you ever feel guilty requesting sex when you know they don't want it and it's just for you?
> 
> When does it cross the line into selfishness?
> 
> :scratchhead:


There are always times when one doesn't want to ask cause they know their partner might be going thru rough patch or maybe even doesn't want to do it.

There is always tomorrow though 

Have I ever felt guilty? Sure, but I usually ask for what I want.

Not sure if I would use the world selfishness. It's simple, both partners have their own desires, each partner is responsible to meet their partners desires (whatever those might be, without extremes of course/reasonable).

For example, wife doesn't have the drive I have (ok, at times), but she goes up and beyond to meet mine. 

Meanwhile, her desire is being met AND some by the frequency of my own drive hehe.


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## Hacker (Jul 14, 2014)

For us it was a compromise for both of us, she was fine with never doing it and I wanted all the time.

So we met in the middle, couple times a week.

I think if anyone was guilty, it was the person with the LD.

But those days are gone.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

BigMrE said:


> For many years, we never really reached compromise, unless by "compromise" you mean that our sex life was always if and only if my LD wife was interested, and just for the activities she was interested in. If she wasn't interested it didn't happen, and when we was interested then I damn well better hop to and perform as to not hurt her feelings by rejecting her advances. I think that is usually how these situations seem to play out.


Why do women make this mistake SO much. Why in the world doesn't a woman want to make sure their husband's needs are met in the bedroom is beyond me.

This is #1 threat to marriage IMO (one of the top ones anyways).


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## Hacker (Jul 14, 2014)

Probably because she thinks she has control and doesn't need to. There are some smart chicks out there that get this. You wanna control your mans sex life, then you make sure his balls are empty when he leaves the house.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Hacker said:


> Probably because she thinks she has control and doesn't need to.


I cannot understand why anyone, male or female, would want a marriage like that.



> There are some smart chicks out there that get this.



Wait, now you are married to infant poultry?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I wasted many years trying everything. I am HD, she was essentially no-D. There was no compromise - it was her way or no way, when we had sex at all. I never felt selfish, but certainly thought she was. I felt frustration, which became anger.

Our marriage was irretrievably damaged. The only solution, fnally, was divorce. That worked great! I found someone who is also consistently HD.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> Wait, now you are married to infant poultry?


Well, it could be worse. His wife could be a cold Digby Chick


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## EntirelyDifferent (Nov 30, 2012)

I'm the ND in a relationship with a fairly HD man. I feel like the compromise is fairly even, but we both work hard to keep it like that. There's a LOT of give and take - I understand that this is a need for him and work hard to fulfill it as much as possible, but he's understanding on those weeks where I just can't go there and doesn't pressure me about it. He also gives a lot in other areas, which allows me to happily give in this one.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks for all the responses! Keep them coming!

For me, I seem to always battle myself about if I am asking too much, being too needy, and if it is selfish to keep pushing. I can't tell when I cross the line.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

To my wife's credit, she has made more of an effort to not reject me flat-out during the past several months. She will NOT initiate, however. To me, this comes across as she's just doing it for my benefit (whether this is the case or not--it's how it feels to me) and has very little motivation on her own. For this reason it makes me very hesitant to initiate anymore because I feel like crap about myself afterward. Net result---very little sex still, despite her being more willing to participate.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

DH and I compromise. Instead of having sex every day we have it every other day or so. For his part of the compromise he has recently stepped up his compliments and aggression. Very nice


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> To my wife's credit, she has made more of an effort to not reject me flat-out during the past several months. She will NOT initiate, however. To me, this comes across as she's just doing it for my benefit (whether this is the case or not--it's how it feels to me) and has very little motivation on her own. For this reason it makes me very hesitant to initiate anymore because I feel like crap about myself afterward. Net result---very little sex still, despite her being more willing to participate.


Very similar here. I'm starting to feel bad when I initiate now, even when he is willing to participate.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Makes you feel like a puppy humping a leg like I said in my thread LOL 

I know that feeling very well.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> DH and I compromise. Instead of having sex every day we have it every other day or so. For his part of the compromise he has recently stepped up his compliments and aggression. Very nice


That is what we do here too. But now I am starting to question whether or not every other day or so is working, or if I should cut back.

It's starting to become a weekly routine for him I feel. He doesn't even want the sex, he just does it to satisfy me. Which is nice of him, but it makes me feel guilty.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

TheCuriousWife said:


> That is what we do here too. But now I am starting to question whether or not every other day or so is working, or if I should cut back.
> 
> It's starting to become a weekly routine for him I feel. He doesn't even want the sex, he just does it to satisfy me. Which is nice of him, but it makes me feel guilty.


I imagine he'd stop if it was entirely unpleasant for him though. So he must be getting something out of it no need for guilt there! I bet you do a lot of things you're less than enthusiastic about too but he doesn't feel guilt for accepting your efforts does he?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Fozzy said:


> To my wife's credit, she has made more of an effort to not reject me flat-out during the past several months. She will NOT initiate, however. To me, this comes across as she's just doing it for my benefit (whether this is the case or not--it's how it feels to me) and has very little motivation on her own. For this reason it makes me very hesitant to initiate anymore because I feel like crap about myself afterward. Net result---very little sex still, despite her being more willing to participate.


Our turn around came a couple of years ago. Since then, rejection has been rare but her initiating even rarer. I do not however feel I am using her for sex. And I make sure there is plenty of foreplay so she enjoys her self to the fullest. It is an important part of the relationship for me. With regular sex, I am happier and my bond with her is tighter. 

For her, she has a need at the end of the workday to vent. Her 
job is very stressful so we always take a few minutes to have a glass of wine and let her gripe. Just plain gripe. I rarely interact other than to support her. I don't try and fix anything, just listen and support. When I've had a poor day this is about the last thing I want to do when I get home, but it is important to her so it is important to me. I don't feel used, I don't feel forced, it is just something I do for her and therefore important to the overall health of our marriage.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
I think HD/LD rarely works out happily. The LD person is always feeling pressured for sex, feels that every nice thing their partner does is in order to get sex. The HD person feels constantly rejected and frustrated. Feels that their partner is doing everything they can to avoid doing the one thing that they really need. The LD partner may try to avoid accepting favors in order to avoid feeling like the owe sex. The HD partner may start rejecting non-sexual favors because they don't want them instead of sex.

I think it rarely ends happily unless the LD partner's drive increases. The HD partner may suppress their sex drive, but it will be difficult for them to avoid feeling resentful. 

If both are up for an open relationship that could work. (but few people are able to handle that emotionally).


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

TCW,
For the first 15 years of our marriage, I'd say the compromise was 80-90 percent in my favor. 

M2 and I joked about how we sort of had a 90-10, 10-90 marriage.

Inside the bedroom was almost all about me. Outside the BR it was almost all about her. Both happy with that. 

During the past decade we've moved much closer to a 50-50 compromise in and out of the bedroom. Which works well for me at 51, maybe wouldn't have worked as well in my thirties. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> How does everyone handle their mismatched drives in their marriage? Who compromises more? Do you meet in the middle, or does one person get more say?
> 
> For the HD partner, do you ever feel guilty requesting sex when you know they don't want it and it's just for you?
> 
> ...


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I imagine he'd stop if it was entirely unpleasant for him though. So he must be getting something out of it no need for guilt there! I bet you do a lot of things you're less than enthusiastic about too but he doesn't feel guilt for accepting your efforts does he?


I hadn't thought of it like that.

I don't particularly care for washing his laundry, but I still do it.

It's just hard for me to equate sex and laundry. Doesn't compute. 

I also don't want him to feel like sex is a chore, like washing laundry. That kind of defeats the purpose of sex. It's suppose to be fun.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

TheCuriousWife said:


> I hadn't thought of it like that.
> 
> I don't particularly care for washing his laundry, but I still do it.
> 
> ...


yeah but it's different too though. LD or not,orgasms feel good. It's not entirely unpleasant to him even if he is LD. Once that laundry is done I bet you are thankful you did it and Loooove the smell of those clean sheets on the bed when you sleep at night right?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

My wife primarily does laundry in the house because I have made a blunder of it a few times. Occasionally, I like to jump in and do it myself to give her a treat (although i sometimes still do not things to her specs, but oh well). I also cook (very well), do dishes, mow the lawn and take out the trash, without being prompted.

If my wife had to ASK me to do those things each and every time, she would justifiably begin to feel a little resentful--would she not?


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks guys. You cheer me up.


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## EntirelyDifferent (Nov 30, 2012)

TheCuriousWife said:


> That is what we do here too. But now I am starting to question whether or not every other day or so is working, or if I should cut back.
> 
> It's starting to become a weekly routine for him I feel. He doesn't even want the sex, he just does it to satisfy me. Which is nice of him, but it makes me feel guilty.


I think keeping HIS needs at the back of your mind is a really good thing. Maybe give him a break every now and then if you can, if he's making an effort to meet yours to the best of his abilities? 

I get next to nothing out of sex. I enjoy being close to my SO and I love making him happy, so I don't want it to sound like a chore or that all we have is duty sex, because that isn't the case, but there have been a few times where he's recognized that I am making more of an effort and 'let me off the hook', so to speak. And I really appreciated that. When it happens, it gives me even more incentive to continue trying to meet his needs because I felt like mine are being recognized as well.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

EntirelyDifferent said:


> I think keeping HIS needs at the back of your mind is a really good thing. Maybe give him a break every now and then if you can, if he's making an effort to meet yours to the best of his abilities?
> 
> I get next to nothing out of sex. I enjoy being close to my SO and I love making him happy, so I don't want it to sound like a chore or that all we have is duty sex, because that isn't the case, but there have been a few times where he's recognized that I am making more of an effort and 'let me off the hook', so to speak. And I really appreciated that. When it happens, it gives me even more incentive to continue trying to meet his needs because I felt like mine are being recognized as well.


Thanks fro the POV from the lower drive partner. :smthumbup:

I will keep that in mind, and try to be sensitive to his needs.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It does very often feel like a chore to the LD spouse. The problem for the HD spouse is that if the LD spouse waits until they build enough desire to really want to then it could be a long wait. Weeks. Months. A very long wait. In a perfect world, HD would always marry HD and LD would always marry LD. In a non-perfect world compromise seems to be the solution or, worse, the possibility of a sexless marriage down the road.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

It's really sad when a person starts off HD then changes to LD. I wish it was easy as HD with HD and LD with LD.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

TheCuriousWife said:


> Thanks for all the responses! Keep them coming!
> 
> For me, I seem to always battle myself about if I am asking too much, being too needy, and if it is selfish to keep pushing. I can't tell when I cross the line.


I would suggest it's entirely personal and you can't assess your own relationship based on other people's. 

The majority of marriages end in divorce. Does that mean we should accept getting divorced? I would say no. Despite what happens in other people's marriages we should do everything we can to keep ours intact.

The same goes for your happiness. Just because a lot of other people are unhappy does that mean you should settle for being unhappy?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

ScarletBegonias said:


> It's really sad when a person starts off HD then changes to LD.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Preaching to the choir here. Stress and menopause took its toll on her.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> Preaching to the choir here. Stress and menopause took its toll on her.


Im so scared to go through menopause for this reason. I don't ever want to know what it's like to not want sex the way I want it now. At least you have a reason to why it happened not that it makes it easier. It's something tangible you can understand though. It must be awful to have a low drive and not know why
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Doesn't happen to all women SB. My partner went through menopause a long time ago. I didn't know her before but her sex drive is fine now. And we have the added benefit of being open for business 28 days out of 28.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

MaritimeGuy said:


> Doesn't happen to all women SB. My partner went through menopause a long time ago. I didn't know her before but her sex drive is fine now. And we have the added benefit of being open for business 28 days out of 28.


Stories like that keep me from going into a full on anxiety attack about it Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrVanilla (Apr 24, 2012)

It’s been really difficult. I don’t remember ever being HD. If I was, there wasn’t anyone in my life then, so the want became somewhat pointless. When my LW and I met, we waited nearly a year. Even in those first few years, 3x a week wasn’t the norm. After 8 years, she changed BC, and didn’t want sex, and during those years I sort of trained myself not to want it either. Then all that changed for her when she stopped that BC med, and her libido came back with a wild vengeance. She behaved like someone I didn’t know. So her lack of drive had been a medical side affect and mine was mental conditioning. The result is that she’s all HD now and I struggle to get my own normal drive back. 

What I’ve learned from all of this is that we each are wrestling with way different perspectives. What I think a sex life is supposed to be like … isn’t what she thinks a sex life is supposed to be like. And, I had certain expectations of how a partner behaves toward sex… and she had different expectations of how a partner should behave toward sex. Our expectations were suddenly wildly opposite. She was expecting ‘normal’ behavior from me (compared to her previous lovers) but she’s not getting it because I’m expecting a far different ‘normal’ behavior from her as I learned my prior relationships. 

What we finally figured out was that in the past when she met someone she wanted to have sex with, she had sex with them. When I met someone I wanted to have sex with, it never happened. My past was full of those I ‘could’ have sex with, and never those I actually wanted to have sex with. I began turning women down simply because I’d had enough sex with people I wasn’t all that attracted to. Then I met my LW and I was very attracted. That was a first for me. 

So our previous experiences gave us each very different perspectives on how the other gender is supposed to behave, and we never realized it. Knowing all of this hasn’t helped much. Our frequency is still about 1x a month and we each struggle with learning new behavior. I want her in close proximity to see if I ‘should’ make a move (not what she knows) and she’s keeping her distance waiting for me to make the ‘bold’ move - that I don’t know how to make. We just haven't quite figured out the compromise yet.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

MrVanilla said:


> It’s been really difficult. I don’t remember ever being HD. If I was, there wasn’t anyone in my life then, so the want became somewhat pointless. When my LW and I met, we waited nearly a year. Even in those first few years, 3x a week wasn’t the norm. After 8 years, she changed BC, and didn’t want sex, and during those years I sort of trained myself not to want it either. Then all that changed for her when she stopped that BC med, and her libido came back with a wild vengeance. She behaved like someone I didn’t know. So her lack of drive had been a medical side affect and mine was mental conditioning. The result is that she’s all HD now and I struggle to get my own normal drive back.
> 
> What I’ve learned from all of this is that we each are wrestling with way different perspectives. What I think a sex life is supposed to be like … isn’t what she thinks a sex life is supposed to be like. And, I had certain expectations of how a partner behaves toward sex… and she had different expectations of how a partner should behave toward sex. Our expectations were suddenly wildly opposite. She was expecting ‘normal’ behavior from me (compared to her previous lovers) but she’s not getting it because I’m expecting a far different ‘normal’ behavior from her as I learned my prior relationships.
> 
> ...


Its your wife. Your gonna have to learn how to "take" it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

E,
This is the difference between someone who sees sex as something they do WITH you, not something they do TO you. Or something you let them do to you. 






EntirelyDifferent said:


> I think keeping HIS needs at the back of your mind is a really good thing. Maybe give him a break every now and then if you can, if he's making an effort to meet yours to the best of his abilities?
> 
> I get next to nothing out of sex. I enjoy being close to my SO and I love making him happy, so I don't want it to sound like a chore or that all we have is duty sex, because that isn't the case, but there have been a few times where he's recognized that I am making more of an effort and 'let me off the hook', so to speak. And I really appreciated that. When it happens, it gives me even more incentive to continue trying to meet his needs because I felt like mine are being recognized as well.


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## Hope4love (Jul 21, 2014)

I'm the HD and my wife is the LD. With sum it began with compromise and has slowly settled into mostly her preference. I am interested in sex everyday. I'd say my wife is a once every other week kind of gal. Earlier in our marriage we would have a loving encounter about 3 days a week. That slowly feel to 2 days, then once a week with a quickie in between. We've finally come to 2 quickies a month and two loving encounters a month.

It's pretty tough for the HD man who still would enjoy once a day.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Hope4love said:


> I'm the HD and my wife is the LD. With sum it began with compromise and has slowly settled into mostly her preference. I am interested in sex everyday. I'd say my wife is a once every other week kind of gal. Earlier in our marriage we would have a loving encounter about 3 days a week. That slowly feel to 2 days, then once a week with a quickie in between. We've finally come to 2 quickies a month and two loving encounters a month.
> 
> It's pretty tough for the HD man who still would enjoy once a day.


Yikes!  I am worried about that happening here.

We compromised at 3 times a week. Now it's leaning towards 2 times a week. I worry the number will continue to drop.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening TheCuriousWife
this can be a really big problem. I don't know if it is intentional or not, but there are a lot of cases where a LD/HD couple settles on a rate of sex, and then the LD partner gradually ramps it down. Every other day becomes twice a week, becomes Sundays and sometimes once more, becomes Sundays, becomes sundays except when we are busy....down to never.

Intentional or not it is a very annoying thing to do to your partner, acting as if they somehow won't notice.

Since the ramp down is so slow, it never seems quite worth complaining. 



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yikes!  I am worried about that happening here.
> 
> We compromised at 3 times a week. Now it's leaning towards 2 times a week. I worry the number will continue to drop.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

How does everyone handle their mismatched drives in their marriage? Who compromises more? Do you meet in the middle, or does one person get more say?

For the HD partner, do you ever feel guilty requesting sex when you know they don't want it and it's just for you?

When does it cross the line into selfishness?



We both compromise and meet in the middle.
We agreed on sex twice per week.
That's far less than I would like, but far more than her desire would have it otherwise.

As the HD partner, I never feel guilty initiating twice per week. That's what she agreed to, so why would I ever feel guilty?
Besides, it's not like she DISLIKES sex, in fact she usually gets very much into it once we are started. 
People seem to confuse *low desire* with *hates sex*, these are not the same thing.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

You can't meet in the numeric middle unless your idea and her idea refer to the same time units... 

As my buddy said, my wife is on the "quarter system" and he did not mean in college . If his idea was a couple times a week the numeric middle is the Universal LD SLA of once a month.... Not likely to fly.

He ended up with a PA which progressed to a rather open marriage...


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

You really cannot measure it in how many times a week is normal. All couples are different. 

The half way should be somewhere where HD hasn't reached the point of feeling rejected, and where LD doesn't feel like HD doesn't care about LD's feelings.

If HD insists all the time, then LD starts feeling that all HD is after is a sexual act without any consideration of LD's feelings. If LD refuses to have sex time after time again, then HD starts feeling too much rejection, lack of love, understanding and affection. 

You really shouldn't focus on the number of times you do it. Humans can skip meals and sleep once in a while - you sure will survive skipping sex sometimes. You should focus on his and your feelings. 

I used to be LD compared to my super HD husband. I never felt used even though we had sex as much as he wanted, and sometimes do things that I couldn't care less for. I focused on his feelings about it. Then the table turned and now I am the one with HD in our relationship. We had some challenges, but I finally got it across and things are working again - he focuses on my feelings and I appreciate his efforts. I don't feel guilty - I feel grateful. 

In both situations, the one on the giving end enjoys the experience for the joy of making the other one happy. And the one on the receiving end pretty much reinforces that behavior by openly expressing happiness and appreciation.

I think it's all about two people trying to make the other one happy. If it turns into "I need", "I want" (be it pro or con sex), then it's doomed.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

As a scientist I worship metrics of all types, and we go to great lengths to capture and analyze metrics. 

And while metrics aren't set in stone, there are certain SLA's implied in marriage - SLA's related to finances, kids, pets, house, and of course intimacy.

You mentioned the "table turned", to me this would be a wholly metrics based assessment... You explain the rationale for having intimacy very well, but metrics ultimately get the last laugh.

Ask any man in this board whether they would be willing to have porn star sex once a month or vanilla sex twice a week. If metrics were irrelevant you'd see a number of people pick the porn star. But you don't, and I'd be willing to bet you that few real people would go for the porn star once a month routine.


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## jasmine9 (Jul 18, 2014)

We are learning to compromise although very hard. Hubby has ED and has said pressure from me made it worse. I have learned to back off which has helped and he hasn't had to use his pills. I will MB if I need to but if he requests that I not and save it for him, I respect that.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

I'd hope the "low drive" spouse works on understanding her/his sex drive has absolutely nothing to do with intimacy and learns to appreciate the "high drive" spouse is being punished for wanting to spend more intimate time with the person she/he loves.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Why does it seem crazy to compromise with sex and intimacy?

Hugs are free

Kissing is free

Cuddling is free

Saying I love You is free

Sex is free

How can any of that be negotiated? 

Why do people resent having sex? 

How and when does sex become a chore?

How could one spouse love and think about sex so often while sex never crosses the LD mind?

Is it fair to threaten/suggest Divorce from mismatched libidos?

If the LD person isn't feeling it, isn't feeling the passion, isn't in to the moment, and just having sex so the HD spouse doesn't get pi$$y, is the sex really worth it?

It seems that if either HD or LD compromises too much, resentments build and over time, destroy a marriage.


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

john117 said:


> As a scientist I worship metrics of all types, and we go to great lengths to capture and analyze metrics.
> 
> And while metrics aren't set in stone, there are certain SLA's implied in marriage - SLA's related to finances, kids, pets, house, and of course intimacy.
> 
> ...


Metrics rarely come in flat numbers. Most often they are a function of other factors. I gave clear definition of the function - the number must be tied to how each party feels about the situation. If one side starts getting uncomfortable, the number should be adjusted. The only way to stay connected in this whole equation is to be sincerely considered of other person's feelings. 

There is no one magic number (once or twice a week, months...) that fits all.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Agreed, but...

Metrics by themselves are objective. Cold numbers. That's where their value is. It allows us to detach from any emotions we may have...

Sometimes we get too engulfed in the subjective aspects of the relationship and miss the cold reality of objective metrics.


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

john117 said:


> Agreed, but...
> 
> Metrics by themselves are objective. Cold numbers. That's where their value is. It allows us to detach from any emotions we may have...
> 
> Sometimes we get too engulfed in the subjective aspects of the relationship and miss the cold reality of objective metrics.


Happy marriage is all about emotions. 100%. People may feel happy. In the most awkward settings, and be miserable when everything goes their way. Emotions at times get tied to cold numbers. But still, detaching marriage from emotions is a way to the selfish "I want/need". The goal is for both to be happy, even if it doesn't imply full satisfaction in sex, finances, free time, the number of kids, etc...


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

Trickster said:


> Is it fair to threaten/suggest Divorce from mismatched libidos?
> 
> .


It's not about fair. It's about finding happiness in compromise. If the goal of marriage to get full satisfaction of all needs, then it's the shortest way to divorce. 

If I want to visit France, and he wants to visit Japan for our next vacation, then I'd be happier to go to Japan with him than going to France myself. If he appreciates my efforts, then he will be just as happy to go to France with me next year. The point is that we are happier together than apart. 

If you are happier having sex as often as you want with some Susie Jane rather than having it once a week with your wife, then it's fair to divorce. Fair to your wife before all.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

TheCuriousWife said:


> Yikes!  I am worried about that happening here.
> 
> We compromised at 3 times a week. Now it's leaning towards 2 times a week. I worry the number will continue to drop.


wait what?, 3 times a week is LD, I always considered myself average to HD, so is there really people out there that every single day of the year wants sex?

I guess I have to redefine myself


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## Jakobi Greenleaf (Sep 19, 2012)

*Re: Re: Mismatched Drives & Compromise*



manticore said:


> wait what?, 3 times a week is LD, I always considered myself average to HD, so is there really people out there that every single day of the year wants sex?
> 
> I guess I have to redefine myself


HD and LD are relative terms. It's how one compares to the other. I am the HD person, and I'd be happy with 3x a week.


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## Jakobi Greenleaf (Sep 19, 2012)

Also, so far as compromise goes: there is a large amount of fluidity in it. Things in my life have changed, and my drive has changed as well. I've got three kids. My wife and I work opposite shifts. I am the HD person. But I'm not blind to what's going on in life. I know that no matter how much I might want it on a Monday, it's not going to happen. My wife knows that her days off are very likely to be a go. I don't know her ideal frequency is, just that it's less than mine. There is compromise all around.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

I've learned to not even bother. I'm moderately HD, and she's ZD (Zero Drive). Doesn't masturbate, think of sex, nothing. Granted, with two small kids and us in our late 40's, it's tough, but you can always find time. Right now, the kids are napping and she's napping as well. 

Like Trickster says, any sex would be just to keep me off her back, and she'd try to get me to finish ASAP so she can go back to Facebook. I don't need that.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

rubymoon said:


> Happy marriage is all about emotions. 100%.



I'm beginning to feel like the TA . God it was a long time ago...

Think what drives or causes emotions. There are different theories and they seem to agree on the basics: there's a physiological stimulus of some kind followed by the brain working to provide a cognitive classification or label, in other words, a match to its library. 

The stimulus would be seeing a good looking woman or man, smelling pizza, etc. In other words physical events. Sex is one of those. Then the brain tries to match the stimulus and the label. So emotions are based on physical world events or stimuli. If the physical stimuli ain't there or are not present in sufficient quantity or quality, emotions can't be generated or sustained. 

Then there's the actions taken due to the above. But if the emotion is not present in sufficient quantities it's not going to be enough unless the people don't know better or don't care.

In other words emotions follow the standard cognitive psychology of stimulus perception -> cognition -> response and action.... and some relatively discrete and defined metrics that apply to what a stimulus should be and what the response should be. 

Again think of the porn star sex once a month vs ho hum sex twice a week....

(Pity I didn't ask the above questions to my students :rofl


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

john117 said:


> In other words emotions follow the standard cognitive psychology of stimulus perception -> cognition -> response and action.... and some relatively discrete and defined metrics that apply to what a stimulus should be and what the response should be.


If you are not feeling the right response of your own cognition  then the number is wrong - adjust it. There is a gap that cannot be bridged, but it's probably an extreme case. 

Another thing about cold hearted statistics: I don't know about others but I do not have a set requirement that fits every single week. Desire changes with the time of the months, amount of stress, health condition, situation at home (problems with my TA may take my drive down)... So one number seems to be too flat of a metric. To me at least.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Correct again! That's why the trend is your friend, as they say.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

john117 said:


> I'm beginning to feel like the TA . God it was a long time ago...
> 
> Think what drives or causes emotions. There are different theories and they seem to agree on the basics: there's a physiological stimulus of some kind followed by the brain working to provide a cognitive classification or label, in other words, a match to its library.
> 
> ...



Lost me a little after the pizza... If all there that I was allowed to eat was cheese pizza when I am after a 5 topping pizza with chicken, pepperoni, spinach, bell peppers, and mushrooms...I would probably turn down that cheese pizza...

I'd want a big fat juicy hamburger fully loaded instead....

Dangit... Now I am hungry.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The pizza is the stimulus. The smell. The taste. The familiarity. The brain will try to match those with the appropriate cognitive labels then take action of warranted. 

Without the pizza stimulus you will not get the same magnitude of the response just by looking at pictures of pizzas. Hence Costco samples on Saturday


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

manticore said:


> wait what?, 3 times a week is LD, I always considered myself average to HD, so is there really people out there that every single day of the year wants sex?
> 
> I guess I have to redefine myself


It's all relative. In our marriage yes I am the HD one, and he is the LD one. But for another couple the HD partner may want sex once a month, and that would still be higher than the LD person who wants it every other month. 

Also he doesn't want sex 3 times a week, that is just what we agreed on for compromise.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

CW,
You seem to be successfully shaping some of his behavior. 

You might want to keep that oral foreplay you give him about as brief as what he is doing for you. 

Maybe you can get him to experiment with 69. 

It will start to create a positive association between giving and getting pleasure. 






TheCuriousWife said:


> It's all relative. In our marriage yes I am the HD one, and he is the LD one. But for another couple the HD partner may want sex once a month, and that would still be higher than the LD person who wants it every other month.
> 
> Also he doesn't want sex 3 times a week, that is just what we agreed on for compromise.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

rubymoon said:


> If I want to visit France, and he wants to visit Japan for our next vacation, then I'd be happier to go to Japan with him than going to France myself. If he appreciates my efforts, then he will be just as happy to go to France with me next year. The point is that we are happier together than apart.


Maybe you should compromise and go to Kazakhstan. It appears to be roughly in the middle of the two. :scratchhead:


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

MaritimeGuy said:


> Maybe you should compromise and go to Kazakhstan. It appears to be roughly in the middle of the two. :scratchhead:



I used the same logic wanting to marry a fully Asian chick vs a fully European chick. The compromise was marrying a chick from those -istan countries :rofl:

Compromises don't always work out.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

On a more serious note that's the concern I have with compromises that have one side having less sex than they want and the other having more. You stand a good chance that neither ends up happy.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

It turns selfish when you make yourself bigger than the marriage and put your "don't need" in front of your spouses actual need. Sex and intimacy is free and if it becomes a duty for anyone, they do not understand marriage.


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## TheWon% (Jul 30, 2014)

Wow I'm kinda new here I didn't know there were so many HD/LD relationships out there. I am what I call "selective high drive" I have two examples. The woman before last that I dated was a super incredible person but was LD apparently. And I always felt like she was having sex just for me. Not sure what was wrong with her, tried to talk to her about it but never got any answers much. That relationship ended. Two months later I start dating a new woman, who was/is VERY VERY HD. This brought out the HD in me BIG TIME. In a setting (when she would stay over, say about 8 hours) we'd have sex no less than 3 times, and 5-6 in that time frame was common. This DID NOT happen with the former GF, not even close. I don't think I could have even performed like that if I tried.

Now you've got to be careful with HD being single, that's why I'm glad I'm "selective" I control it, it doesn't control me. Her HD destroyed our relationship because even at the frequency above it wasn't enough. Ironic thing is that now the guy she's with (and was also having a EA while with me) she say's he's MD, which is really just an excuse for him being LD. Oh Karma how I love thee.... lol......


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## jasmine9 (Jul 18, 2014)

I don't think all of these "HD/LD" relationships have to do with HD/LD. We had issues with relationship and ED. Just because our marriage counselor told my husband that woman have higher drives, now he uses that as his excuse when that is not even the problem. The issues go deeper than that.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

jasmine9 said:


> The issues go deeper than that.


Personally I think the vast majority of these so called LD/HD mismatches go deeper than simple drive. I think they have more to do with the relationship than anything.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

MaritimeGuy said:


> Personally I think the vast majority of these so called LD/HD mismatches go deeper than simple drive. I think they have more to do with the relationship than anything.



They do, but good sex is a heck of a relationship BONDO so that things can be smoothed without too much effort.

Sex helps keep the connection running more smoothly. Without sex every trivial issue can and often will snowball..,


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## jasmine9 (Jul 18, 2014)

Absolutely!


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## HDsocal (Nov 19, 2010)

I don't understand the idea of compromise on mismatched drives.

There isn't really a middle ground, it is about intamacy and drive not just about sex. If the LD partner just 'puts out' that isn't satisfying sex it is just mastrubation food the HD partner. What is it for the LD partner? If they don't have the desire but have sex anyway?

The mismatch is about desire and intimacy not just sex IMO. How do you create a middle ground to desire?


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## JourneyOn (Aug 10, 2014)

I am the HL one who would be happy with once or twice a week. He seems to be content with once a month. I'm the one that usually brings up the topic of being more intimate and the one that is hurt (or at least expresses I feel rejected). However, I don't want to keep bringing it up to him because I don't want to make him feel forced to have sex or just do it to please me. There's still been no real compromise... I use my vibrators more than I'm with him. The situation doesn't seem to bother him.


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

I am HD.

If I could have it my way it would be 5 days a week.

But, UNFORTUNATELY, it has been 4 times this past month. 

I cant even choke with that number.

Depressing truthfully. 

This makes me reject him when it comes around because there is no point in satisfying his every now and again urges. 

Selfish, maybe. I don't really know anymore.....


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

What compromise? When she refused to do it even just once every two months as a relationship saver, I gave up. I don't know how people take absolutely nothing for years at a time.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> What compromise? When she refused to even do it even just once every two months as a relationship saver, I gave up. I don't know how people take absolutely nothing for years at a time.



The biggest mistake people stuck with LD's unwilling to compromise is to keep hoping for crumbs.

The crumbs help preserve the status quo. 

Once a month and never are in the same area code in terms of pleasure derived. Once a month sort of obligates me into a resemblance of normalcy. Never frees me to do whatever I want. Situational ethics.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

BigMrE said:


> Fortunately, after years of trying to work through it and also my all but threatening to leave if she didn't turn things around, we made some other changes, things have been getting better. And part of that improvement has been her making more of an effort to keep me more satisfied even at times she isn't completely into it. I feel zero guilt about wanting her.


This is a such a wonderful way to say how you feel.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

I divorced him, that's how I handled the mismatch. Was the best thing for both of us. I went on and repartnered with a compatible VHD man, the ex still hasn't repartnered after 5 years. Top of my list with any prospective serious relationship was that he had to truly be HD and enjoy sex. We are a daily or more couple, middle aged and having the best sex of our lives.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I'm really quite sad about how things have gone for us in the past few months. Last summer I was full of optimism that we could work things out. However, after I started paying more attention to patterns and started expecting better sexual treatment for myself I concluded that he was still where he had always been in regards to sex. He can pretend for a while. He can respond to me being mad at him for a while. His baseline is his baseline, though. 

I was able to find some other outlets for myself. I became involved in a few community activities that hit the same nerve as feeling desired. Things that require my attention and passion and creativity. 

I find that I really don't want to have sex with DH lately. I hope I haven't hit the point i read about often here, where finally the HD partner becomes unattracted to the ld after many years of rejection. But perhaps I have. When we do have sex, even if he makes it very about me, i feel as far from orgasm as I ever did. In doubt it's going to get better while my intimacy switch is off. I could work at engaging myself or I could stop putting energy into the one part of my relationship that has never been right. 

I'm still masturbating 3-5x/ week so it's not like my drive is gone. Just tired of the table scraps. 

Sorry for the pessimism, curious.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I'm really quite sad about how things have gone for us in the past few months. Last summer I was full of optimism that we could work things out. However, after I started paying more attention to patterns and started expecting better sexual treatment for myself I concluded that he was still where he had always been in regards to sex. He can pretend for a while. He can respond to me being mad at him for a while. His baseline is his baseline, though.
> 
> I was able to find some other outlets for myself. I became involved in a few community activities that hit the same nerve as feeling desired. Things that require my attention and passion and creativity.
> 
> ...


Right there with you Miss Scarlett. The wife and I recently had sex, and it was so much "ok, now do THIS to get me in the mood. Now do THIS! Now bring me some of THESE!" So many requirements, just to have sex that it very nearly killed the mood for me entirely. Nevertheless, I persevered. 

The next day, I was feeling my oats again, and thought, "what the hell, why not try for double?" Leery of a repeat of being sent on another grail quest to ignite her libido, I opted instead for the other thing that's lacking as much as sex---communication. I tried asking a few questions about the night before--what worked, what didn't, etc. Very little feedback. Then I moved on to fantasies, etc--none. Any non-PIV stuff you've wanted to try? Nope. Toys? Nope. 

Finally got to the point where I asked her straight up--"before we got together", (we're each other's first and only relationship) "did you ever think about sex in any way?" Nope.

I'm coming to the conclusion that she may acquiesce to sex, may in fact even enjoy it on some level from time to time. But I don't think I'll ever understand what it's like to have a wife who actually WANTS to have sex with me.

For me, compromise is quickly becoming a moot point. After reality started to set in from that long overdue conversation, I've really not even had much of a desire for her. The thought of it is actually starting to turn me off.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

MS,
I am genuinely sorry for you. You are a good person and deserve to be loved like a wife. 

I did think your H was not being honest with you - when you talked to him about what you liked/wanted. He claimed not to remember certain things that - well - a normal man would absolutely remember. He seemed - selfish. 




MissScarlett said:


> I'm really quite sad about how things have gone for us in the past few months. Last summer I was full of optimism that we could work things out. However, after I started paying more attention to patterns and started expecting better sexual treatment for myself I concluded that he was still where he had always been in regards to sex. He can pretend for a while. He can respond to me being mad at him for a while. His baseline is his baseline, though.
> 
> I was able to find some other outlets for myself. I became involved in a few community activities that hit the same nerve as feeling desired. Things that require my attention and passion and creativity.
> 
> ...


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

MissScarlett said:


> I'm really quite sad about how things have gone for us in the past few months. Last summer I was full of optimism that we could work things out. However, after I started paying more attention to patterns and started expecting better sexual treatment for myself I concluded that he was still where he had always been in regards to sex. He can pretend for a while. He can respond to me being mad at him for a while. His baseline is his baseline, though.
> 
> I was able to find some other outlets for myself. I became involved in a few community activities that hit the same nerve as feeling desired. Things that require my attention and passion and creativity.
> 
> ...


I am in the same place as you...I no longer put my energy hoping for sex...


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I'm really quite sad about how things have gone for us in the past few months. Last summer I was full of optimism that we could work things out. However, after I started paying more attention to patterns and started expecting better sexual treatment for myself I concluded that he was still where he had always been in regards to sex. He can pretend for a while. He can respond to me being mad at him for a while. His baseline is his baseline, though.
> 
> I was able to find some other outlets for myself. I became involved in a few community activities that hit the same nerve as feeling desired. Things that require my attention and passion and creativity.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to hear that Scarlett. 

I was really hoping you were doing better lately.

I find I go through stages. Sometimes I feel like you, sometimes I feel good, sometimes I feel mad. It's always waves of emotion. I think that is to be expected in a situation like this.

I hope this stage doesn't last long for you. And if it does, I hope you have peace with whatever decision you make.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I don't think it's a stage. It's the way it is. 

Like many here I'm sure I constantly gague the sum of my marriage and life vs. the one part that is missing.

I think what bothers me more is that I've gotten bitter. It's hard to read on this board about people who have what I don't. I'm filled with jealousy at my real life friends who have satisfying sex lives. 

I know I could divorce him. That's an option I have. And yet - my life is good. I have everything I've ever wanted except that one thing. I find myself adding how many years before my sex drive declines with age. Constantly doing math in my head about what percentage of my marriage is good and how much of my sexual life am I through. Even how likely is it that I could get away with an affair. It's a little frightening how my mind has gone there. I've even started to believe that DH wouldn't care. Becoming so matter of fact with my options. 

What started out as an orgasm issue became very plainly a desire and intimacy issue. I can't have the orgasms because the synergy isn't there. I get it now. 

So yeah.... Anyway. Sorry again for the pessimism.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I don't think it's a stage. It's the way it is.
> 
> Like many here I'm sure I constantly gague the sum of my marriage and life vs. the one part that is missing.
> 
> ...


I am so sorry.  I have no advice, only sorrow and hugs. I've had those thoughts. It stinks. Life is so unfair sometimes! 

We have similar stories, only you are much farther down the path. I can't imagine the pain of looking back on 20 years of the same crappy sex life. I hope I never let it get that far. 

Have you shared with your husband that you have had thoughts of an affair? Maybe that would be the wake up call he needs? Or maybe he would just be like my husband, who probably won't take me seriously if I told him that?

As for the bolded part. That is exactly what happened with me. I thought it was an orgasm issue. But once I started digging, the hole just kept getting deeper and deeper. It was so much more.

I really wish the best for both of us. Don't forget I'm here to chat if you're feeling low. Even if it is just to whine, cry, or vent. Feel free to PM me any time.


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## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

From a back of the napkin review of this thread, it seems a little more than half seemed to find some sort of compromise and are happy with it. The other less than half have some sort of compromise but are unhappy. 2 divorced and are re-partnered and happier. I didn't dig deep enough to see if those that are satisfied tended to come from the LD or HD side or both evenly.

50-60% chance of finding a satisfactory compromise isn't too bad considering most people are here because they are the ones with the issue to solve. I guess that's one reason why I haven't pulled the plug yet.

This thread is only a snapshot in time though and far from scientific. Just like crunching numbers sometimes.


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