# Borderline Personality Disorder



## BPDR (Jul 5, 2012)

Hi Everyone, 

This site has been extremely helpful in so many ways lately regarding my M - I would like to thank ALL of you in helping me understand my situation more clearly. 

First off, I am usually a VERY confident, strong and loving husband. A hard working professional with many talents and quality attributes. These are the VERY qualities my wife saw in the beginning - and they remain MY strengths as we move closer to divorce as the result of BPD conflagrations, constant arguing and NC types of separations that are now common in our M.

Before, I go further into the detailed technicalities of our "Condition" - I simply would like some board advice on experiences by others here suffering from this "On-And-Off" switch mechanism that many other women are able to do to there husbands - and get away with it?

Mine HAS been getting away with it for some time now. Game up. I am putting my foot down and filing for divorce next week. This LAST separation and NC torment is the FINAL straw. Mutual friends are now informing me of her "Running around" with other men, and to my way of thinking - "Where there's smoke" ---> there is definitive fire.

I cannot, nor will I tolerate this behavior ANY longer with regards to our children and our family. This MUST STOP NOW or there is NO other option available to me. She obviously needs help psychologically to HELP her understand this illness, but calls me CRAZY every time I elude to the true underlying extent of her condition. She proclaims that I am trying to make her "Crazy" now?? Cmon!

It's her, and her friends have even told her to her face!!

I moved out, over this last battle - and I am NOT coming back until she get's some serious help for this. I have ulcers, heart racing, upset while working and stressed out all the freaken time because of her constantly. I CANNOT take anymore of this.

The children seem out of sorts, because Mommy can't seem to not get angry and shout about everything all the time...

She throws EVERYTHING at me, but the kitchen sink. Literally. Fortunately, there is no police involvement yet, no abuse (Physically) yet -- but for how long remains the only question.

Her anger issues have destroyed many of our possessions in the home, and her constantly picking a FIGHT so she can find a useful reason to leave the home to go to the bar and party with people I cannot stand is depriving me of my wife. If I go with her to the bar, she picks fights with me until I basically leave. Good thing is, she usually comes home shortly afterwards to attempt a mends of sorts.

The CONSTANT tug-of-war has me in complete disarray. My emotions are like a roller coaster constantly. I work too hard for her and the kids to endure this behavior much longer. I am wits end with her, and it is time for me to set boundries and limits on her getting some REAL solid help for her issues, or it's over...

Plain and simple. I can't take this anymore.

Anybody here, have a similar scenario? If so... please chime in..

I am devastated by all of this - and our family is being ruined from within by this constant fighting over really stupid, petty stuff she keeps throwing back up into my face.:scratchhead:

Thanks in advance! Cheers!


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Hi, I'm sorry you are dealing with such a difficult situation. I wish you the best, and hope you find peace and happiness for yourself and your children. While this community is great, and tends to offer very good advice, I think you will benefit far greater from visiting, registering, and posting on the following site:

Out of the FOG - Personality Disorder Support
Out of the FOG - Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)

The site I link to is an amazing resource for people who are dealing with, or have loved ones that suffer from personality disorders. 

The only thing that will bring about meaningful change in your wife is a commitment from her to intensive individual counseling. She would benefit most from seeing counselors who specialize in personality disorders and CBT/DBT (cognitive/dialectical behavioral therapy). DBT has been shown to help the most, although it greatly depends on how bad your wife's disorder is.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

BPDR said:


> Anybody here, have a similar scenario? If so... please chime in..


BPDR, welcome to the TAM forum. I'm so sorry to hear you believe your W has strong traits of BPD. I offer the following suggestions:

As an initial matter, if you suspect your W has strong BPD traits, I recommend that you NOT tell her. If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist (not a MC) and let the psych decide what to tell her.

Second, if you think you may stay with her a while, I suggest you get _Stop Walking on Eggshells_, the best-selling BPD book targeted to spouses like you. Or, if you are decided to get a divorce instead, get _Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist_. Both books are written by the same author. If you divorce your W, the second book is especially important because BPDers typically are very mean and vindictive when a loved one is walking away.

Third, I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at _BPDfamily.com_ -- the largest and most active BPD forum I've found that is devoted fully to the spouses and family members of BPDers. This issue is such an enormous problem that that website is growing by 20 new members every day. The result is that it offers eight separate message boards on various BPD issues. The ones that likely will be most helpful to you are the "Staying" board, "Leaving" board, and "Raising a Child when One Parent Has BPD." The website that Paladin mentions is an excellent resource also.

Fourth, while you are at BPDfamily.com, I suggest you read the excellent articles in their resources section. My favorite is article 9 at T9 Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder - Columbia University, New York.

Fifth, I suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with -- and how likely it is she may pass it on to your son. As I've explained in many other threads, your best chance of getting a candid opinion regarding a possible BPD diagnosis is to NOT have the BPDer along. Therapists are loath to tell high functioning BPDers the name of the disorder (for her own protection).

Finally, BPDR, I will answer the question you pose: Yes, I had a similar experience -- in a 15 year marriage that ended in divorce, after my BPDer exW had me arrested on a bogus charge so she could file a restraining order against me -- to kick me out of my own home. If you would like to read about my experiences, please see my three posts in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. Take care, BPDR.


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## BPDR (Jul 5, 2012)

Uptown said:


> As an initial matter, if you suspect your W has strong BPD traits, I recommend that you NOT tell her.


Thank you both Paladin and Uptown for the insight. I really appreciate the input, as I am seriously crawling the walls now going out of my mind over this. I have opted to NOT tell her I know about her BPD tendencies.

First off, I am actively enrolling in the prescribed forums offered by Paladin. Thank you!:smthumbup: Secondly, I just received some emails from my wife (Since I have discontinued text, phone) stuff with her completely. I will share some of that content with you later, as she now seems to see fit - that I AM the one abandoning her, so she's got "More drinking to do tonight" so bid me a "Good-Night"

Her whole outlook on our problems, seem to be "Classic" signs nearly fitting precisely 17 of 20 signs of BPD. The only thing that has me wondering about my feelings, seems to be that she is NOT a pathological LIAR. I know this to be true, because she does not lie to me about even the simplest of things.:scratchhead:

Now, that is NOT to say that she is capable of lying about the bigger stuff. All I am suggesting, is that I don't know for sure since most of my info has come from mutual people we both know. Our MC is doing a one on one evaluation with us next week. We will see if my wife is willing to go to this one.

Otherwise, I will begin the detachment process for my family and MY sanity shortly thereafter. I just can't take much more of this on/off again abuse. It's affecting me professionally, physically and emotionally. It's always "About her" or "What about me" almost crying for attention like a two year old in the living room!?

It's actually diminishing my love for her layer, by layer literally. I am losing respect now and fear that my children are beginning to see it for what it is. Amazing. Sharp as a tack. 

The most difficult aspect of this is - the CONSTANT bickering, is over PAST issues. For instance, my past lovers ie; Ex-Wife etc. and that I am "Emotionally Unavailable" or "Built an Emotional Wall" that cannot possibly be torn down!! She harbors resentment like no other individual I have ever experienced in my entire life. The baggage she brings up, moves from one argument to the other - creating drama when NONE exists!? 

Everything seems to be about HER emotions, and how I cannot possibly change the fact that she no longer loves me, and how nice it would be to find "The Man She Fell in Love With"....

If that makes any sense.

I told her, that MAN exists - but he is beaten down, exhausted and depressed right now. Still, she goes to the bar to philander with the VERY people she knows I cannot approve of. I know, you might be thinking the drinking is an issue, and that may be part indeed - but the underlying question I have, is that she is like this CONSTANTLY sober! There is this endless need to be acknowledged, validated and her emotional sensitivities addressed.

Her needing to be validated - has risen to the level of sharing our personal deepest dark issues to everyone around her, and manipulating them into thinking I am some sort of MONSTER lurking in the shadows. I know this to be true from the info I get from her texting other men. She claims that I "Put my hands on her" somehow suggesting that I have struck her in a violent way - when in reality and actuality, I was attempting to save another household item, or another one of my smartphones or laptop from being smashed....

Go figure?:scratchhead:

I'm simply exhausted from the situation - and desire only release if something cannot be done effectively to allow her to see this destructive behavior in it's purest form. She blames everybody else when they try to make her see "SHE'S THE PROBLEM" as her whole group of friends are now turning against her because rises up against them, throws ME under the bus and blames me for all of her issues. Strangely enough, she has this "Kid Like" tone about her voice when friends shut her down - but SCREAMS in a demon voice at me when I try to rationalize her argument with her. It's really weird.

Anyways, here is her parting quote to me in an email sent just about an hour ago...



> _I have some more drinking to do. Good night. If you think you have what it takes to make me fall in love with you again, by all means. Prove it for once.
> _


That's laughable, almost teenage like. I married her. I provide for her, I put ALL of her needs ahead of mine and our children and still she can say "Prove it for Once" --- oh WoW:scratchhead:

Again, THANK YOU Paladin and Uptown for listening to me and sharing some useful information regarding our situation. Much appreciated MORE than you know sincerely.

BPDR


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

BPDR said:


> The only thing that has me wondering about my feelings, seems to be that she is NOT a pathological LIAR.


That is not surprising because BPDers generally are NOT pathological liars. Like any other group of people, they are for the most part good people with good morals. Their problem is not being BAD but, rather, being UNSTABLE. That instability distorts their perceptions of other peoples' intentions and motivations, leading them to mistakenly respond with bad -- sometimes very mean and vindictive -- behaviors.

Keep in mind that, because a BPDer's emotional development is frozen at about age 3 or 4, she is stuck using only the primitive ego defenses that are available to young children. These primitive defenses include projection, black-white thinking, temper tantrums, and lying (denial). Lying is at the end of the list -- being the BPDer's least favorite option -- because lying is done consciously, thereby always producing much guilt. For a person who is self loathing and has been carrying enormous shame inside since early childhood, anything that makes her feel shame -- as lying is certain to do -- is extremely painful. 

My experience, then, is that a BPDer typically will resort to lying only as a last resort -- when you have her cornered and admitting the truth would be far too painful (more painful even than feeling the shame of being a liar). BPDers generally do not have to resort to lying, however. Their defense mechanism of choice -- projection -- usually protects their fragile ego by shielding them from seeing too much of reality. 

The beauty of projection as an ego defense is that it works entirely at the SUBCONSCIOUS level, thereby allowing the conscious mind to actually believe the absolute nonsense coming out of her mouth. Importantly, this means that projection is GUILT FREE, making it a far superior ego defense to lying.

The result is that a BPDer will say -- with great sincerity and conviction -- things that are so absurd that you will absolutely marvel that any adult can say such a thing while holding a straight face. Although such false accusations cannot even pass the laugh test if one stops to scrutinize them intellectually, the BPDer does not apply that test. When a BPDer experiences intense feelings, she does not intellectually challenge those feelings. Instead, she "splits off" the logical adult part of her mind and makes you deal, instead, with the intuitive child part of her mind. 

This is why, when you are trying to discuss a sensitive subject, you are always left trying to reason or compromise with a four year old. She does not permit you to engage the logical adult in her mind. And this is why the vast majority of her absurdities likely are projections, not lies. Moreover, because BPDers generally are excellent actors, it is difficult to distinguish between the lies and projections. With my BPDer exW, for example, I learned early on that I would drive myself crazy if I tried to tease apart the lies from the projections. This, at least, is my experience, BPDR.


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## Berilo (Aug 2, 2011)

BPDR said:


> ...she now seems to see fit - that I AM the one abandoning her, so she's got "More drinking to do tonight" so bid me a "Good-Night"
> 
> .... I just can't take much more of this on/off again abuse. It's affecting me professionally, physically and emotionally. It's always "About her" or "What about me" almost crying for attention like a two year old in the living room!?
> 
> ...


BPDR,

I am very sorry you are in this situation.

My stomach turned when I read your story. I was in your situation about a year ago. (See my thread: "Distressed"). I suffered almost exactly the same uncertainties, abuse, and emotional whiplash as you have, from my STBXW who I am almost certain has BPD.

The quotes above from your post resonated particularly with me, for the following reasons:

- My STBXW showed little empathy towards me, and slid into serial infidelity, during which times she would disappear from our relationship (certainly emotionally, and a few times physically). I found out and backed off -- and I was the one "abandoning her"!

- The sick self-centredness really has to be seen to be believed.

- I too was labelled "emotionally cold" and "insensitive" because I tried to manage her moods, put up some boundaries (like, once, I said, please let me get back to my business meeting, I can't talk on the phone about supermarket products all afternoon just because you have the day off. She blew up.). Somehow, after only a year of marriage, I was also "No Longer the Man She Married".

- Resentment about history (usually conveniently revisionist) is always simmering beneath the surface, on call when needed to use as a weapon.

- She tells her colleagues I was "the worst husband", a man who can't deal with a woman, and should never have gotten married. (Funny, most of my ex-girlfriends have told me I was generally a pretty good guy with them, whatever the reasons we broke up.)

- One night, she smashed both my laptop and my cellphone, because I was allegedly using them to carry on an affair. (Completely false -- she was projecting her own faithless affairs, of which I had strong evidence.) I couldn't believe the sight of her violent tantrum.

- You mentioned two words that have repeatedly come to my mind about my STBXW: "childlike" and "demon". Like in the film "The Exorcist", I never knew which one I'd be talking to at any given moment. It was creepy, very unsettling, and exhausting.

I am now out from this relationship, fully separated, and headed to divorce. (I am moving the paperwork forward slowly and steadily, to avoid a crisis/explosion. Seems to be working so far.)

You will get some excellent advice on this forum. Continue to do a lot of reading on the subject. It really helped me maintain my sanity and do the right thing for myself (and in your case, also for your kids).

I wish you the best. Please feel free to send me a PM anytime if you feel you can't take it any more and need to blow off some steam. The situations you will find yourself in are truly mind-bending, mind-numbing -- and most undeserved.

- Berilo


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## SCondeck (Oct 5, 2012)

Wow, count me in on the "I think my STBXW is a BPDer" club. I was out of the country for business and spent her birthday in a foreign police station waiting in line to get fingerprinted for a Visa application. It took ALL day! I managed to get a quick message to her "Happy Birthday, I'll see you tomorrow!" and made it home the next day. Do you think she would be happy to see me? Do you think she missed me? Nope. She accused me of having an affair with a woman of that country, forgetting her birthday and saying she EXPECTS flowers on her birthday! I mean come on, how can a husband who's NOT cheating on his wife not give her flowers on her birthday, even if he was 5 thousand miles away?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

SCondeck said:


> Do you think she would be happy to see me? Do you think she missed me? Nope.


SC, clearly, despite the boring day spent waiting for a visa, your being 5,000 miles away from your W was the best part of your week. That speaks volumes.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

BPDR said:


> I cannot, nor will I tolerate this behavior ANY longer with regards to our children and our family. This MUST STOP NOW or there is NO other option available to me. She obviously needs help psychologically to HELP her understand this illness, but calls me CRAZY every time I elude to the true underlying extent of her condition. She proclaims that I am trying to make her "Crazy" now?? Cmon!


This accusation of the cheater calling the victim crazy is known as gaslighting. 

Cheaters with some type of personality disorder are masters of gaslighting.


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## BPDR (Jul 5, 2012)

Well Folks, as you can see here--my story started here 6 months ago, and I am thankful for all of you and your comments for helping me moving forward and beyond this experience. In many ways--I regret NOT seeing the "Red Flags" sooner, and as for my M I have given up any hope of making sense of a senseless situation and have decided to divorce and move beyond this very painful experience.

The despair, heartache and devastation of my life is enormous. 

I cannot begin to describe the ensuing HELL that has transpired over the course of identifying this illness. But, having said that--it is important for others to continue to recognize, intervene and help people who are experiencing this very difficult condition.

I count my blessings for the advice I received here in getting support, help and understanding just exactly what I have gone through. It is such a painful experience, that I cannot fully describe the damage psychologically what she has done to me and our family.

She has now slid into serial infidelity, drinking and partying and I have been left cleaning up the mess. Only six months later - am I beginning to gain perspective of what the hell exactly went on. It has been literally a "HELL" of emotions and disappointment. But, truth be told--it's NOT me. I'm not crazy.

I saw the signs--and I came here. Something else was going on with her, and I could not put my finger on it. Now, I can. Thanks to all of you!:smthumbup:

My family and I are recovering now. It will take some time to sort through the pain of it all--and the D will be final in January, but in the meantime treating my anxiety and depression has been extremely difficult at best. I am getting better with her away from us. The destructive nature of this illness is so very apparent. Only now, six months later can I begin to gain perspective on what the hell went on. Truly confusing. While I am saddened by this fact of her illness...it is with MUCH RELIEF that now I understand more clearly just what the hell happened.

I will be coming back for periodic updates of how things progress, and be PM'ng some of you whom helped me along. I have enrolled in a CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) Program and began session work with an IC on how best to recover from being married to this person. So, far I am staying off of meds and dealing with the reality of it all, but trying to get on with my life with my kids without her. I am still obligated to her and paying alimony every month--but her needs are exceeding the initial amount agreed upon in mediation. In the meantime, I am being responsible for all of the household needs and clearly caring for the children and working everyday to maintain some semblance of order without her. She's gone to us now. I know that.

Please offer any kind words of advice here. You folks have helped me identify what exactly was going on, and I feel obligated to let you all know how things are going during this most painful period in my life. Thank you all.

Best wishes,
BP


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

BP, thanks so much for giving us an update. Like you, I was living in a state of shock when my 15-year M was ending, at which time BPDer exW had me thrown into jail on a bogus charge of "brutalizing her" so her status of being "The Victim" would be immortalized for all time. Of course, she obtained a RO barring me from returning to my own home for 18 months (the time it takes to get a D in this state). That proved to be a blessing of sorts because my being physically removed from her toxic behavior greatly accelerated my healing process.

Yet, as bad as that was, I cannot imagine how painful your situation must be -- given that you have children who must be protected throughout the whole messy affair. If you have not done so, I again suggest you start participating (or lurking) at the "Raising a Child when One Parent has BPD" forum at BPDfamily.com.

Another helpful resource is the book, _Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist._ It was released last year by the author of the best-selling BPD book (_Stop Walking on Eggshells)._ Please take care, BP, and feel free to PM me at any time.


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## BPDR (Jul 5, 2012)

Uptown said:


> BP, thanks so much for giving us an update. Like you, I was living in a state of shock when my 15-year M was ending, at which time BPDer exW had me thrown into jail on a bogus charge of "brutalizing her" so her status of being "The Victim" would be immortalized for all time. Of course, she obtained a RO barring me from returning to my own home for 18 months (the time it takes to get a D in this state). That proved to be a blessing of sorts because my being physically removed from her toxic behavior greatly accelerated my healing process.
> 
> Yet, as bad as that was, I cannot imagine how painful your situation must be -- given that you have children who must be protected throughout the whole messy affair. If you have not done so, I again suggest you start participating (or lurking) at the "Raising a Child when One Parent has BPD" forum at BPDfamily.com.
> 
> Another helpful resource is the book, _Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist._ It was released last year by the author of the best-selling BPD book (_Stop Walking on Eggshells)._ Please take care, BP, and feel free to PM me at any time.


Thank you very much Uptown. Clearly you understand the dilemma that me and my kids face. It is absolutely devastating as she is now outwardly displaying pictures oh her and the OM now on her Fb page, and making it public. Her attempts to destroy me are now out in the open--and for full public viewing.

I will be PMng you once my head begins to digest and clear somewhat. Right now my state of mind is fragile, and I am trying to maintain composure for the children's sake. I am alone and bitter trying to cope with my anxiety and severe depression. I began the CBT Testing this week, and after taking the Anxiety Tests and Depression Tests--The screen popped up saying I needed to contact a clinical psychiatrist to avoid suicide! I would NEVER do that, as I must clearly care for my children. So, that is not even an option here IMO.

I want to go complete NC with her, and discontinue giving her anymore money period. She clearly is a ***** that is sucking the life out of me--and kicking me in the nuts at the same time. It's humiliating and disgusting that I am having to put up with it, since we are still legally married and I am financially obligated to her. Maybe I need to call my lawyer today?

This is rediculous. What more can I do to get beyond this trauma? I am heavily involved in support forums, and trying to get out there more and live some aspects of my life--but every morning brings more and more of the same sleeplessness and anxiety she is outwardly trying to inflict upon me and our family.

The hatred of her is now so apparent, that I want to retaliate in the worst way--but also know this too will change nothing. Only perhaps make things worse. I view her now as an adversary, and I want so badly to fight back in some way. 180 and NC is probably the best thing to do completely, but how do I manage the alimony thing? That's her only link back to us now.

Any advice is much appreciated. Thank you all.

BP


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## Amyd (Nov 12, 2012)

BPDR said:


> Thank you very much Uptown. Clearly you understand the dilemma that me and my kids face. It is absolutely devastating as she is now outwardly displaying pictures oh her and the OM now on her Fb page, and making it public. Her attempts to destroy me are now out in the open--and for full public viewing.
> 
> I will be PMng you once my head begins to digest and clear somewhat. Right now my state of mind is fragile, and I am trying to maintain composure for the children's sake. I am alone and bitter trying to cope with my anxiety and severe depression. I began the CBT Testing this week, and after taking the Anxiety Tests and Depression Tests--The screen popped up saying I needed to contact a clinical psychiatrist to avoid suicide! I would NEVER do that, as I must clearly care for my children. So, that is not even an option here IMO.
> 
> ...


You must have answered certain questions a certain way that triggered a suicidial response from the test.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

BPDR said:


> I view her now as an adversary, and I want so badly to fight back in some way. 180 and NC is probably the best thing to do completely, but how do I manage the alimony thing?


BP, I don't know what the alimony requirements are for California. Where I live on the East Coast, I was advised to seek a settlement agreement using a professional mediator. The great advantage of that approach (at least in this State) is that, once the agreement is signed, it can never be revisited. If I had let the divorce judge decide the alimony amount, however, my exW could always revisit the judgement at any time by petitioning the court, arguing that her needs had changed.

Whether that consideration applies in California or when children are involved, I have no idea. Surely, the child support issue can be revisited no matter what you agree to up front. In any event, having to deal with an angry BPDer for the next 15 years, until the children are adults, is going to be a major pain. Sadly, that is exactly what one of my nephews is doing right now. He got a BPDer pregnant and, although he never got married to her, he has been having to deal with her outrageous, selfish behavior when trying to pick up or drop off his daughter.

Your lawyer likely has already told you that it is VERY difficult to get a psychologist to evaluate your W and testify against her in court about her having strong BPD traits. There are many reasons for that. Suffice it to say that this difficulty is so well known that one law firm (in L.A., Orange Country, and Las Vegas) even warns their potential divorce clients about it on their website. They explain why therapists are loath to tell a BPDer the name of her disorder, even when it is full blown. They also discuss some of the difficulties of divorcing a BPDer. The article is at http://www.bonnebridges.com/pdf/Borderline_Personality_Disorder.pdf.

That is why I encouraged you to go to your own psychologist -- for a visit or two BY YOURSELF -- to obtain a candid professional opinion of what you and your kids are dealing with. Relying on the advice of your W's _therapist_ during the marriage would be as foolish as relying on her _attorney's_ advice during the divorce. It is important to see a professional who is ethically bound to protect your best interests, not hers. If you want a more detailed explanation of why therapists typically withhold this information to protect their BPDer clients, see my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-official-im-getting-divorced.html#post811909.


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## BPDR (Jul 5, 2012)

Uptown said:


> BP, I don't know what the alimony requirements are for California. Where I live on the East Coast, I was advised to seek a settlement agreement using a professional mediator. The great advantage of that approach (at least in this State) is that, once the agreement is signed, it can never be revisited. If I had let the divorce judge decide the alimony amount, however, my exW could always revisit the judgement at any time by petitioning the court, arguing that her needs had changed.
> 
> Whether that consideration applies in California or when children are involved, I have no idea. Surely, the child support issue can be revisited no matter what you agree to up front. In any event, having to deal with an angry BPDer for the next 15 years, until the children are adults, is going to be a major pain. Sadly, that is exactly what one of my nephews is doing right now. He got a BPDer pregnant and, although he never got married to her, he has been having to deal with her outrageous, selfish behavior when trying to pick up or drop off his daughter.
> 
> ...


UPTOWN, you are such an inspiration to me and my family. Thank you so much for your insight to my situation. Clearly, you have been there (To Hell and back) and I am desperately trying to get to the "Other Side" of this tragedy. Tragic, in that my W is RELENTLESS in "Hoovering" me back now -- and sending messages of; I love you, and I DO miss you...and it's important that you know that"!? HuH? ---> Did I MISS something? Like, whatever HAPPENED to your VOWS?

This crazy-making has my head swimming. My kids ask about their mom everyday -- and it's crushing my heart every minute-- of every day. Literally.

On the alimony, I have just decided to placate her with whatever she wants until the D is final. It's better than arguing with her. Besides, I just want her to be gone so badly, I will PAY any price to be able to move on with my life. Our kids and me deserve to have peace. This has NOT been peace of any kind so far. Her being away from us has been better, but Seeing the OM has been heartbreaking to me, as it validates everything I have thought about her all along.

The subsequent toll that she exacted upon my health is enormous. I feel as if I have aged 100yrs. and beyond....Truly Sad 

Uptown, EVER SINCE you folks guided me to the appropriate sources to more clearly understand what my M is going through, I now understand it. Before -- I was helpless to grasp this PD thing. It's so heartbreaking, and I will be forever changed. Hopefully, for the better -- as I move to divorce.

I have NO illusions about trying to divorce a PD. I have read all of the material - and received guidance on "Out of The Fog" forum. My lawyer is simply oblivious, I think. Just another D is his position I truly believe. Either way, I know what must be done. I AM DOING IT--but it's damned hard I cannot tell you!!!

I love my wife with every ounce of my being. She is the mother of my children. But, her wreckless behavior has so polluted the well, I cannot drink from it any longer. I know this very well.

I am staying NC as her latest message today was around noon. The "I Miss You Alot" -- just ain't exactly what I need to hear right now for me and our children. She's gone, out of our lives now....she needs to stay gone I say.

Again, thank you for all your help. I read your story complete, and it has touched me deeply. I am so sorry for your loss to this PD thing. It crushes our inner soul, and makes us slave to the very people we love.

All the very best,
BP


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

BPDR said:


> On the alimony, I have just decided to placate her with whatever she wants until the D is final. It's better than arguing with her.


BP, if that is what it takes to keep her from insisting on shared custody, it may be worth it. Keep in mind, however, that placating her by throwing money at her will buy you NOTHING in lasting good will. With a BPDer, it is simply impossible to build up a store of good will that you can later draw upon in bad times. The reason, as you've seen so many times, is that a BPDer is so completely reactive to the intense feelings she is feeling AT THE MOMENT that, after a few days (if not hours), she is completely out of touch with the good will you had tried to build. With an untreated BPDer, it is always "What have you done for me LATELY?"

The result is that, the more money you pay her now, the more she will expect you to pay when you are trying to reach a arbitrated settlement. I therefore suggest you speak with a good lawyer as to whether you are shooting yourself in the foot long-term by being so generous. I simply don't know the answer to that question. I realize it would be foolish to loose your 100% custody of the kids over a small amount of money.


> My lawyer is simply oblivious, I think. Just another D is his position I truly believe.


As in any profession, the skill sets vary GREATLY among divorce lawyers. Hence, if you are not confident in your present lawyer, I suggest you do some research to obtain a reliable reference for choosing another one. With kids involved, a D is very complicated and you want the very best advice.


> Our kids and me deserve to have peace.


Yes, but it would not be wise to make enormous short-term concessions to achieve little or no long-term gains. Further, being generous now may even weaken your bargaining position later. A good lawyer will help you make the right choices.


> Before -- I was helpless to grasp this PD thing. It's so heartbreaking, and I will be forever changed.


Yes, as painful as your experience with her has been, it has given you an understanding of basic human behaviors and motivations that few men ever achieve in a lifetime.


> So, far I am staying off of meds and dealing with the reality of it all.


BP, believe me, there will be plenty of reality left to deal with even if you do take a mild medication. But you should do whatever works best for you. It is not necessary for everyone to take the same path to healing. In my case, I found that the smallest available dose of Zoloft -- which has both antidepressant and anti-anxiety effects -- greatly helped to take the edge off of my suffering, allowing me to make more rational decisions. I took it for about six months. They don't hand out any awards, you know, for going through great pain without taking a painkiller.


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## BPDR (Jul 5, 2012)

Uptown - Yeah I think you are right about seeking out a more attuned lawyer to this PD D. On one of your links - there was such a law firm available in our area. Initially - my present lawyer was retained specifically because of my vested interests in maintaining custody in the superior family law court. He is very good with custodial parental rights (Which is good) but, I also realize that not only does my W have BP traits - it has become increasingly clear there is a Cluster #B underlying histrionic AND Narcissistic tendencies also present. This has become more and more apparent of recent.

Having said that - perhaps I will do some local searching visits to get a better feel for Lawyers familiar with a BPD'r D. Also, you may be right about building up a good store to call upon later. Her attitude's change so rapidly now from one day to the next (Email Only) and one day "I love you and I miss you" to "Can you please load more money onto my card today" to "There you go again, ignoring me" -- it's all so unnerving.

On one hand -- I just want this nightmare to end, on the other hand I MUST do this correctly. The ability of a PD to string things out to a nasty detriment is a very real possibility here. Now that the OM is revealed -- and that she has an admitted affair going on with him now -- and I have proof, pictures, status update screen shots, SHOULD carry some weight with a good lawyer in the court proceedings.

As for the sleeping issue - it's getting worse. Although the anxiety and depression is beginning to mellow out somewhat, the sleeping thing is really bothering me now the most. I suppose it can't hurt making an appointment to go get some sleeping meds. I tried melatonin - and it just triggered the anxiety more! 

Again, thank you for your continued support here. I really do appreciate the input.

All the best,
BP


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

BPDR said:


> I think you are right about seeking out a more attuned lawyer to this PD D. On one of your links - there was such a law firm available in our area.


BP, please be cautious about jumping ship if your present attorney is "very good with custodial parental rights," as you say. That, of course, is your paramont consideration.

I am skeptical that any law firm is able to work any magic when dealing with abusive PD sufferers. As I noted, that L.A./Orange Country law firm says on its website that it is difficult to get a professional to testify against them. Hence, unless the firm knows some tricks to get the spouse's mental problems entered into the court record, I don't see any advantage of switching. After all, EVERY divorce lawyer has the experience, with at least 15% of their clients, of having to deal with abusive spouses having strong BPD, NPD, Histrionic PD, and AsPD traits.

That said, it may nonetheless be worth an hour of your time to get a free consult with a law firm that claims to have expertise in dealing with PD sufferers. You can find out if they have any bright ideas on how to get the issue considered in the custody hearing.


> Not only does my W have BP traits - it has become increasingly clear there is a Cluster #B underlying histrionic AND Narcissistic tendencies also present.


That would not be surprising. Most folks having one PD also suffer from one or two others. The PDs do not constitute separate diseases. Indeed, there is no evidence that a disease causes ANY of them. Instead, PDs are simply groups of dysfunctional behaviors that tend to be observed occurring together. 

Technically, a PD is simply a "syndrome," i.e., a group of dysfunctional behavioral symptoms. Because every PD is considered to be a "spectrum disorder," every one of us has all the traits to some degree. I mention this because, in every field of the medical sciences, the term "disorder" typically means "disease." In psychiatry, however, this is NOT the case. With respect to PDs, "disorder" simply means "syndrome." It is nothing more than a group of symptoms and, because the APA created too many of these groups back in 1980, they are now consolidating the 10 PDs into 6 PDs in the new DSM5 which will be released this May. (Yes, BPD and NPD are being retained but Histrionic PD is not.)

A recent study of nearly 35,000 American adults (pub. 2008) found that, of those suffering from BPD, 74% also suffer from at least one other PD. With regard to the Cluster B personality disorders alone, 49% of the BPDers also had Narcissistic, Histrionic, or Antisocial PD -- or more than one of them. See _Table 3 _at Prevalence, Correlates, Disability, and Comorbidity of DSM-IV Borderline Personality Disorder: Results from the Wave 2 National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions.


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