# Am I the one who is in the wrong here?



## too_far_into_it (Jan 6, 2010)

Well, I have been struggling with the way I'm feeling about my husband for a long time now. I just need to get 'it' out there. I can't talk to my friends or family about my marriage. If you stay with this post thank you as I know this is going to be too long to really expect anyone to read it. I do however need to put this down somewhere.

I have been married for almost 19 years. I have four children, two from a previous bi-racial relationship and 2 with my husband of which we are the same race. Before I was married I was with a number of men. Now that I am in my 40's I know that it was due to the absence of my father and the way I was brought up. Basically we were brought up in a cult and lived in squallor and poverty. I was the 5th child of seven. My parents neglected most of their children in one way or another. So I thought the way to make 'someone' love me was through my body.

My husband was aware of my past before we got married. Actually it turns him on in the bedroom, he wants me to tell him all the details of encounters with other men. Actually he has gotten mad at me for not giving him details at times. You see I hate my past, I am ashamed of it and don't want to relive it. It happened over 25 years ago. So at times he will throw up to me the past, but others it is his foreplay. He doesn't even know me. I have told him how I feel about it but he doesn't believe the reasons I was so quick to be with teenage boys back then. He believes in his mind and has verbally told me that I'm just a ***** and I like it. This is a compliment in his mind to be called a *****. It's what turns him on after all.

So jump back to the beginning of my marriage. He was engaged before and got his heart broken, actually shattered. I was the girl who he felt 'sorry' for, the girl who had two kids which he really loved. I do need to say that. I also was his sexual fantasy. He told me one day when we were dating that he would never marry me. Well we lived together and I guess his christian father guilt ed him into marrying me. 

Throughout the marriage he has smacked me on a few occasions and pushed me across the room. He has called me every name in the book, ****, *****, nlover, etc. etc. Though in the past 2 years he has stopped that. He also told me early on he has never loved me. This is all in the first 17 years, the last 2 years things changed but I don't know if they changed for the better or worse. Oh yea I was smoking from marriage years 13-14. I was not allowed to do that. He would throw water on me on a few occasions when he was "really tired of me smoking". I did quit.

I did get very very depressed after my 4th son was born. this was in the year 2000-2004. I was in severe depression for about 2 years and moderate for two years for a total of 4 years. I was in a mental hospital for a week at a time on 3 different occasions. The entire time I felt tormented. He accused me of faking the depression, he told me ALL THE TIME that mental sickness did not exist. I remember waking up at night with panic attacks asking god to please help me. I really wanted to die. I think I had post pardom depression and was misdiagnosed with may illnesses and put on the wrong meds. Anyway I weathered that storm and am still kicking. I remember just hearing him call my name put me into a panic. I cannot express through this post how horrible and unsupportive he was during this time. I was just very sick and could not help it that I was unable to preform like a mother and wife should have.

I worked during our marriage all but 2 years I was really sick, I went and finished my college degree the last 2 years of my depression. The 16 years I worked as a manager I made more money than he did. I carried of families medical, dental and life insurance. I paid all the bills and kept the checkbook. Actually I am still the one who does all that. However I do not make as much as he does now. I still make 3/4 of his salary and carry the insurance. He throws up to me that I go to work but I don't actually work. I have a desk job where I use my brain and not physical labor. He is a laborer. 

I was not given the opportunity to go to college as a child, he was given EVERY opportunity, but quit college. He has quit promising jobs in big companies because it was too much pressure. He could be making a big salary now with full benefits, a great retirement package etc. He is self employed as a general contractor with no benefit package at all. The only reason he as a general contractors license is because I went and took the test for him. I am listed as his partner in his business and hold the license.

We recently moved to take care of his elderly parents. She has Alzheimer and his father is in good health other than having had both knees replaced and one shoulder replaced. So I cook all the meals for my family and his parents. Clean his parents home which is behind our house. His father loved to garden so we put in large gardens. I did most of the work in the garden while my husband coached my sons football and baseball team this year. I would spend the evenings weeding, watering, harvesting and canning while he played at the ball field.

I sit on both board of directors with my husband, one night during an argument he accused me of hanging on his shirt tails. That I did not have friends and I was using him to become popular in the community with the volunteer work I did. I busted my hind end doing 90 percent of the work to keep the leagues running so he would be guaranteed a coaching spot. (coaching spots are highly sought after here)

Ok I'm trying to put the last 20 years out there. I guess I just want to get across that I am always criticized for what I do. Nothing is ever done right or the way he wants it. If it is not one thing it's another. If I think I'm doing what he wants it always something else that I'm doing wrong. I've tried to garden and can like his mom did. I've tried keeping a clean house. I've been the bacon bringer. I've tried everything.

So that brings me to the next way I've tried to please him. So we move last year. Our house we have a mortgage on is still not ready to be put on the market, we are making a payment on it. It is in need of many repairs that he failed to do while we lived in it. He is always putting me down for not being able to carry furniture or do repairs there or whatever. I'm like if you wanted a man as your help mate you should have married one.

Back to pleasing him. We were never big drinkers. We began to go out together and have a few drinks. One night we go parking, yea at 40. Anyway he gets all teary eyed and tells me what he really want me to do for him. He wants to see me have sex with another man. He knows he is going on 50 and he really really needs for me to do this. He tells me he loves me more than he has ever loved anyone. His old fiancee who shattered his heart doesn't hold a candle to his love for me. I say no way, it will ruin our marriage. I told him on many many occasions that he would not be able to handle it. He continues to beg me for months about it. Finally I agree. He picks one of his single friends and we do it. We did it 3 times. So every time his friend would call he would hand me the phone to talk to him. He would encourage me to call him to come on to him. He wanted to do it all the time. 

So his friend and I become good friends. We talked on the phone many times a day. His friend would call me. We worked together on projects. I never was unfaithful to my husband. Believe me the friend wanted to be with me without my husband but I always played it off and would not dishonor my husband that way. Well, my husband gets jealous of him calling me etc etc. He accused me of liking it and wanting to be with the friend. It was an entire 6 months of hell. It was exactly as I predicted and again I am on the other side of his verbal abuse.
I have to admit that it was fun to have your husband allow you to be with "strange" but I didn't like his friend that way.

Well, finally I think I have stopped forgiving my husband for verbally beating me up all the time. Up until the friend issue I always forgave him. I remember going to a fundraiser dinner the few nights following the first time we got together with the friend. I burst into tears as I looked around the room and wondered how many husbands would ask their wives to do something like that. We had to leave the dinner.

So in the last 6 months I have been totally turned off by my husband. Especially when he is drinking. He will tell me that I am his wife and I will do what he wants. The only thing he asks of me is to give him sex and I should do it when he wants the way he wants and not complain one bit. One time after we did this threesome thing, he was not happy with me and the kind of sex I was giving him, I must have refused to tell him about a sexual experience that happened 25 years ago or something. Anyway he taped me and forced me to do sexual things to myself and do exactly what he wanted. I think that night my heart froze for him. I remember looking at myself in the mirror and telling myself to put away money. I was going to get out eventually.

So I haven't had sex with him in over a month. He turns my stomach. He tells me this morning that if he doesn't get good sex soon he wasn't going to fix up the other house to sell. HA your not fixing it up now I said. So he calls me a few hours ago and wants to know if I'm coming home on time. He told me to be in the mood for sex or go to my families house tonight. Well I'm 30 minutes past my regular time. 

I will say that I am a %itch at times. I am not perfect I have many faults, things are good at home 75 percent of the time. But these things he does to me are always there. Every nasty thing he has said to me is always there. He is a decent father I guess, he does provide. I just don't know if men are like this. I know that they probably are not. I don't feel I can get anyone else due to the fact that I have mixed kids. He tells me that all the time anyway. I'm afraid to start over, I don't really hate him and do love him, but am tired of feeling like a second class citizen who really has no say.

Part of me hates him, part of me still loves him.

There is more but I can't have this post go any further. I thank you so much if you have stayed with me this far. I feel better just getting it out for someone to give me some feedback.:sleeping:


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## AlexNY (Dec 10, 2009)

I think of dysfunction as a personality trait that makes living in the real world difficult or impossible.

If two people have complementary dysfunctions, they can find it easier to live together than apart.

However, if either partner attempts to address his or her underlying problem, the other partner will feel threatened and will make treatment even more difficult than it already is.

Questions:

1) Do you think that the woman who you were when you married your husband could be happy in a conventional marriage to a conventional man? Such a man would have little interest in role-playing a repeat performance of your childhood dynamic. Such a man would not be able to sooth the pain of childhood abandonment or neglect through endless re-runs of the same script. Such a man would work for his beloved wife to find peace through the hard work of counselling and reality. _Such a man would NOT encourage or tolerate escape through fantasy or role playing._

2) Do you think that the man that your husband was when he married you would be happy in a conventional marriage to a conventional woman? _ Did he need to be married to a woman "unlovable by others" who thought she had to buy/earn love, because he is a man who cannot love himself?_

3) Did you break the marriage contract by emerging, at long last, from the pain of your childhood neglect and abandonment in a healthy way? _Did you recently face your demons?_

4) Does your husband feel betrayed that you chose to heal yourself, _and left him behind to face his demons alone?_

Good luck.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

I think you are healing from your childhood- and you picked your H to help you heal. I dont know if you've ever heard this train of thought, but its what helped me in my life. 

there's a couple of good books you can read: *Seat of the Soul* and *Radical Forgiveness*. Radical forgiveness has some strange ideas at first, but the message is really good. that book also helped my H a lot too.


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## too_far_into_it (Jan 6, 2010)

Thank you both for reading my long post. I really have never thought any of the things you replyed about my relationship. I knew I was dysfunctional due to my childhood, but have never felt he is. I do think he hates himself. I think he feels he is a failure. And of course his sexual "hangups" are not normal.

I don't feel that he feels abandoned in the fact that I am healing. I think he just treats me the way he does to try to convince me I am the piece of crap, doesn't do anything right, sorry excuse for a human being. He is always telling me how I will never find anyone to love me, that they will want to have sex but will never stay with me. I think HE is afraid HE will never find anyone else.

We had a fight when I got home last night. He wanted to know why I did not want to be with him. I told him some of the reasons but really it is just about everything about him. First and foremost his treatment of me. Even though he does not say completely terrible things to me anymore he does put me down quite often. I don't even think he realizes he still does it. So he tells me that he is not going to get the other house ready to sell until I sleep with him. 

He threatened me with various things and went as far as telling my youngest to go get grandpa and bring him to the house. He said he was going to tell his dad we were divorcing. It was an empty threat as is everything he does.

I really would like some time away from him. I have no where really to go, as the other house is not suitable right now to be lived in. I couldn't afford it anyway. I will live in a one room cubicle and shower at the gym. I just wish I could bring myself to do it.

Again thank you both for replying. I will look into the books recommended and I'm rereading the first post many times to absorb what is there.

I really wish I was not feeling this way and could continue on the same way I have for the past 19 years. I just have stopped forgiving him for his words and actions.


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## Dryden (Jan 5, 2010)

Well, I'm no counselor but I don't think your the one in the wrong here.

I think there are too many issues here to be solved on your own. It sounds like some single/couples counseling for both of you would go a long way in helping with some reconciliation. 

I think your H might suffer from a significant lack of self esteem. He doesn't think he's good enough himself, so he's projecting that on you to make himself feel better. I did something like this to my wife for a while too, until she finally stood up to me for it and I came to realize what I was doing. It took some counseling, understanding and support from my wife and a lot of personal effort to get through. However, I've drastically reduced my belittling of my W (nearly non-existent now) and feel a lot more confident in myself as well.


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## Hillbilly (Dec 30, 2009)

Are you the one who is in the wrong here?......Hell No.
Sounds to me like you've bent over backwards to please him. It is completely amazing to me that you have stayed with him all these years considering all that he has done.
I am a christian and every single thing about his treatment to you is 120% wrong.....and you know something, it doesn't really have anything to do with christianity, so whether he's a christian or not doesn't really matter. Good common morals and respect should stand in place, christian or not. Him calling you filthy names, putting you down, asking you to relive your past, pushing you around and smacking you, and on top of all that he wanted you to have sex with someone else. His treatment of you is all dispickable, disgusting, disrespectful, and dishonorable. Not only has he made you relive your upsetting past by having you tell stories about it, but he has made you actually relive it by sleeping with this other guy, and you did it all in an effort to try to please your man.......Man??? It doesn't even feel right to call him a man.
I don't mean any disrespect to you at all by saying what I'm saying, but in my opinion he is a very, very sorry excuse for a man.
Oh, by the way, I am a man, a husband of 17 years. I am in no way perfect, but I can tell you with all certainty that his treatment toward you is totally wrong to a point that he deserves to be tied to a whipping post and have the piss whipped out of him. What kind of example is he setting for the kids? Will they grow up to treat thier wives the same way? Nobody deserves this kind of treatment, no matter what kind of past they had. Are you a Christian? Do you believe in God? If you are a Christian then you are a child of God, a Princess, an heir to the throne of the Kingdom of God. How dare he treat you like that. And as I said earlier, even if you're not a Christian, this treatment is wrong. Even animals fight for thier mate and don't offer her up to others. He has NO respect for you. Period. It's hard to believe that there are men as sorry as that out there in this world. His treatment of you puts me in mind of how a pimp treats his girls. I don't mean to make you feel worse about your relationship, God knows that you have hung in there for a long time, but in my opinion, you should have left him a long time ago. I fail to understand how a man can treat his wife like this and still participate in board meetings and coach childrens ball teams and act like a good man to the rest of the community. Would you want another man like this coaching your kids? I sure as hell wouldn't.
There is nothing wrong with you because of your past. It's exactly that....The Past. Water under the bridge. Just because you had a rough past and did things that you regret and maybe things that you shouldn't have done doesn't mean that you're second hand material or that your worth is any less than an eighteen year old virgin. You are priceless. You should not be a doormat to anyone.


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## too_far_into_it (Jan 6, 2010)

WHEW!!! It is such a relief to get a mans opinion of my situation. I have to say that I have not been easy to live with. Looking back though I see that I was not easy to live with because I was tormented and completely confused about everything in my life.

I know the reason I ended up with a 4 yr severe depression is due to emotional abuse.

To answer your question, yes I am a christian and so is he. Actually his parents are devout christians who have started many churches, his sister is a pastors wife and he attended a christian university, however he quit after 18 months of college life. 

I have said to him many times that if the people of the community knew how he really is and how he really treated his family they would be completely shocked. He bends over backwards for people in the community and is walked over by everyone and anyone who does any kind of work for us or anyone he does any kind of work for.

I am torn by my beliefs. I know it says that a woman should submit to her husband. I use this a an excuse for putting up with his crap. We were members of a church for the first 10-12 years of our marriage, however his obsession with sports and his kids being the best at every sport imaginable tore us away. His kids suffer due to his unrealistic expectations of them on the court, diamond or field.

Funny thing is, I'm not ready to leave. Basically financially I could not. I'd have to leave the kids with him. Which is fine, I know they are safe there, he really is a good father, except for his treatment of me in front of them. Anything I want as far as the kids not eating in the family room or their rooms or making them do chores and pick up after themselves is a big joke, so the kids and him just laugh when I get upset over the messes they make. He is such a slob which is amazing considering how his mother kept her house. ABSOLUTELY SPOTLESS, you could've eaten off her floors. It's like he is revolting against her and I'm the one left with the unbelievable messes.

It's his family home we live in now. BTW he tells me it is not my house it will be willed to the kids. So the house we have a mortgage on together is not ready for the market and he is holding that over my head. Well I will do what I can there and hopefully hire out the things I cannot do little by little. I have to get that house sold. 

Recently whenever I call him on an issue like the messes or some mean comment he makes he always says I'm just joking. Well it's not funny and I'm not laughing.

Your post did not offend me in any way. I had that heart sick feeling that this was totally not the norm. I have always felt I deserved his treatment due to him not being the first to get to me like a husband should. When he is putting me down for my past I sometimes say to him that he did the exact same things I did, which he did.

He was very heavy into drugs as a young man as well. But it doesn't matter. I'm the piece of crap, he always says that it makes him mad when I don't want to sleep with him because I was with whoever wanted it when I was 16 (it wasn't all that many and I did not sleep with whoever wanted it btw) but he is my husband and I turn him down. Well, I don't turn him down we have sex 3-4 times a week (before the current drought) and maybe more. If he would stop watching all the porn and taking care of things himself every day I would not have a problem sleeping with him more often, but we have had 4 hour sessions before and I'm not as young as I used to be. I get charlie horses a lot due to the length of time it takes him. Not to mention he just turns my stomach anymore. I know tmi, but really when he is drinking, which seem to be a lot lately it's forever at least an hour and has been as long as 4 hrs.:scratchhead:


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## Dryden (Jan 5, 2010)

too_far_into_it said:


> I am torn by my beliefs. I know it says that a woman should submit to her husband.


Yes, but it's a two way street:
Ephesians 5:22 "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord."

However, it goes on to say:
Ephesians 5:25 "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her"

Also in Colossians 3:
"18Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord."

And directly after it:
"19Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them."

Would Christ treat his bride as you are being treated?



> I have always felt I deserved his treatment due to him not being the first to get to me like a husband should.


A Christian counselor that my wife and I saw said this, and it really stuck with me:
"Christ never said you CAN'T get divorced, he just said he doesn't like it very much."

Plus, if one Truly repents, Christ forgives all sins. If we are to be more like him, should we not at least TRY to do the same? My wife had a BF before me she had sex with. He may have coerced her into it, but I was not the first to have her. However, I do not hold that against her. How can I when she left him and married me?

I do think that his treatment of you, and how you mention that his expectations on the children are high are indicative of low self esteem. Did his parents hold him to very high standards when he was growing up?



> Recently whenever I call him on an issue like the messes or some mean comment he makes he always says I'm just joking.


I used to do this myself. And truthfully, most of the comments I made were only halfheartedly serious. What I didn't realize though, was the impact that they were having on my wife. Once this got out in the open, I made an effort to stop them.



> it's forever at least an hour and has been as long as 4 hrs.


That just sounds painful.


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## gardener1965 (Oct 20, 2009)

too far into it:

You are not wrong. No one deserves to be treated that way. 
I was married to a "pk" (pastor's kid). He had a lot of the traits that your h has. He had "done everything right" (except getting divorced, but of course that ws HER fault). He didn't drink, smoke, he went to church, had a college degree, so he thought it was OK to cut me down for every mistake I made in my youth. He was cruel, nothing was ever good enough. He made me feel worthless. It took me a few years, but I got out. It took me 5 years to be able to go. I started step by step, first just doing things on my own, finding my own job, activities, friends. Then I saved some money, and then I got out. It wan't easy, I was almost 40 years old, but I got out and I got better. 

My point is, you deserve better. Your past is your past, it isn't who you are, it is what you did and you have to own it, but it doesn't have to own you. You seem to be getting over it, he seems stuck in the same place, and he isn't healthy. It sounds like you both need counseling, but what you need most is to take care of yourself. Even if you decide you need to stay for now, you can still take care of yourself and tell yourself everyday that you are worthwhile and worthy of happiness. We all deserve that. Good luck and God bless.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

I felt like I had to comment here. My wife and I are both in our 40's and have been married 18 years with 3 kids (5, 8, and 11). Before I met my wife, she too, had a shady past (which I knew about). We don't have a perfect marriage and are disapointed with eachother in many aspects, but we have stayed together mainly because of the kids. We have an ok sex life (used to be much better, but has now dwindled down to a couple of times a month, and is not very good in my eyes (no forplay, kissing etc., just climb on and do it quickly). There are several reasons for this that would take a page to explain. My drive though is much higher than hers. I too, have the fantasy of watching my wife with another man. My wife does not know about it, because I know she would never go for it, and would be very angry with me for even suggesting it. I even tried once to get her to go for a full body massage with a male (even the thought of another man rubbing down my semi naked wife turns me on) but as soon as she found out it was a male she said that there was no way she would let another man touch her body. So I have, quite wisely, decided to leave this as a fantasy. My wife is way too religous to ever try it. I really don't know why I get so turned on by the thought of my wife with someone else, I just do. Just as a side note, we are both working class professionals with degrees living a very middle class life.


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## too_far_into_it (Jan 6, 2010)

Thank you for your reply russ101. I'm not really sure how I feel about the "wanting to see me with other men thing" part of me is hurt that I am not as precious to him as other women are to their husbands, part of me is just mad that he got so upset when I was only doing what he wanted me to do, ie; talking to the friend on the phone everyday. I mean he would hand me his cell phone every time the friend called him. I thought I should try to seduce the friend into another encounter because my h wanted to do it so much more than either me or the friend wanted. He got jealous and I got the accusations that I wanted and liked the friend. Part of me liked the excitement of it. Part of me is hurt that my h had no problem seeing me with him, I fully expected him to regret the action and not want to do it again. He'd have us be full swingers if I'd allow it.

What is it about seeing your wife with another man that is exciting? I don't understand why he needs this.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

It is really hard to explain. As I said before, my wife and I have been married a long time (18 years) and I think that I have actively had this fantasy for at least the last 12 or so. Men are very visual (I know women for the most part, are not) and women are mainly emotional when it comes to connections. When I even picture my wife being taken by another man, I get instantly very aroused. The picture of my wife having intercourse and being turned on herself is very arousing to me. Sometimes when we are having sex, I fantasize that it is really someone else on top of my wife and I get really turned on. I don't really want a threesome, I just want to watch her have sex with another man that she is very attracted to, and then when they are done, have sex with her myself. I have almost told her of this a couple of times, but I chickened out knowing that it would only cause her to have nothing but disgust for the idea. I think that there are two types of men. Those that want to watch their wives, and those that are very jelous and do not. There are alot of men out there who are into this, but I think that the vast majority keep it to themselves because of what their wives would say. But I really wish she would do it at least once, but I know that she never will, that is why I keep it to myself. By the way, I do think my wife is precious, I just want to share her every once in a while. I think you gave in partly to your husband's request because the thought of it turned you on as well to a degree. Do you have any thoughts on how I could get this to be a reality with a very religous person? Even once would be great.


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## too_far_into_it (Jan 6, 2010)

*"I just want to watch her have sex with another man and when they are done have sex with her myself."*

Yep this is my h is a nutshell, this is what he says. Though the third party go antsy and wanted my h to join in. There was no guy/guy stuff going on, just the two of them with me.

Well, what you can say to her? I'm not really sure. Everyone is different. I did it for my husband because he wanted it so bad. I mean he was in tears the first time he told me what he wanted. We have always been very open about our fantasies and porn and the like. It took him 18 years to just tell me that he was serious about wanting it. He had made comments about it before, but I didn't think he was really serious all those times.

He liked me role playing about other guys. I would call him names of other guys and pretend to have someone else with us. Mind you I never wanted to relive my past in this way. As long as it was fantasy it was ok with me. When he began to want me to relive my younger experiences it was a bad scene.

You know your wife better than anyone. I think my h knew all along I would oblige him. I don't want to tell you to have a heart to heart with her and tell her how you feel if it will cause problems in your marriage. But let me give you a piece of strong advice. DO NOT DO IT WITH SOMEONE YOU KNOW OR ARE FRIENDS WITH, EVER. PERIOD!!!


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## gardener1965 (Oct 20, 2009)

I just want to comment that I don't think it was the sex with another that caused this. If you both agreed to that, and were ok with it, then that is up to you. It is the way he cuts you down, and manipulates the situation, giving you the phone, then getting mad. Setting up a no-win situation for you. Bringing up your past. That is the part I recognize, that is the part that I see is hurting you. He is not repsectful of you and respect is important in a marriage.


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## too_far_into_it (Jan 6, 2010)

I think your right gardener. It's not the sex with the other to give him what he desires. It's what happened afterward. I did what he wanted, tried to give it to him again and then was treated like a common hor# in the aftermath. I did not want to have an A with this guy as I could have if that is what I wanted, it was obvious the friend wanted me alone. Truthfully I would do it for him again if he would just get a clue as to how to treat a wife.

He cuts me to the core all the time. I can't take it. He doesn't even know when he is doing it. THAT is the scary part. His mother from what I understand was the same way. He gets it honestly at least.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Get a divorce and stop doing things you don't want to do. what he asked you to do combined with the bad treatment generally? It's toxic.

You don't need it.


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## too_far_into_it (Jan 6, 2010)

Michzz, while I appriciate you taking time to read my post and possibly the entire thread. I have to take your post with a grain of salt.

It is very easy to tell everyone here on these boards to just get a divorce you don't need the crap your dealing with. 

Maybe it's my fault or just the "nature of internets sites" as this one. But I can assure you that when I read any of the posts here I know that there is more to meet the eye/ear when reading these situations. I'm sure that whatever reason you have found yourself here you hope for some insight to your situation. Of course I know I can just divorce him. 

I may end up taking your advice in the end, but will try everything I know to change my situation.


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## uncovered (Jul 14, 2009)

Too-far, if you don't mind me asking......you say that both you and your husband are christian? What is the evidence that you are christian? And I'm referring to the evidence within and to yourself, not about what I or others think. I hope you understand my question


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## too_far_into_it (Jan 6, 2010)

Short answer is we believe Jesus is the son of god, has died for our sins and rose again on the third day. Once saved ALWAYS saved.

I don't know the reason you have asked this question, but I will say to you that Christians are not better than other people but they are better off. Christians are not perfect and do still sin. Some reading my post my believe that we live a sinful life and they would be correct. Everyone lives a sinful life. I feel that I answer to my husband and he answers to god. If I disobey my husband I am then am disobeying God.

We do not regularly attend church. I am pretty much disappointed with modern day "men and women of god". I have sat so many times in church and listened to the pastor preach on various subjects, all the while he stands up there at the podium 400 plus pounds. He never preached a sermon on gluttony. Also divorce is rampant in our church. Most couples are remarried, but you NEVER heard him preach on remarriage and that they are living in adultery. You know why, because the sins he chose to ignore were being committed by the people who put the most money in the collection plate. 

I do hope you are not being judgmental. "Judge not less ye be judged."

Of course you may have asked the question because you are questioning my relationship with God and want to be sure I am saved. If so thank you for your concern. 

I grew up a member of a cult, so I have a VERY wide knowledge of different denominations. I have been through a very emotional relationship with the worlds view on Christianity and the like. People are not innocent, they are easily corrupted.


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## Alexandra (Jan 9, 2010)

So after reading everyone's post, I think it's time for me to give you my feedback or at least how I see your situation.

First thing first - your "active" past due to your father rejection is completely expected and even common, nothing to be ashamed of and we will all agree with the fact that your husband suffers from a monumental lack of self-esteem.

There is one thing though, I still cannot pin out from your posts: after all these years of putting you down, do you still want to stay with him? Do you want to save your marriage? Do you still have hopes?
Because if your answer on all the above questions is YES than you will have to start doing something for YOURSELF, something that will please you, something that you will do for your ego as pure selfishness. You deserve some quality time for yourself, rediscovering that you are a woman, that you deserve respect. And if you want to help your husband, because he definitively needs help, then after taking care of yourself, try to find some activities or ask him to help you in something just to give him the impression that he is needed and that he can be good at something, give him a chance to show his value to you. You are an intelligent woman; you can figure out what he is capable of doing right and then with your own way make him understand that you could not have done it without his help. 

Try this and maybe he will regain some of his lost self-respect that is obviously the main cause for your current crisis.


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## uncovered (Jul 14, 2009)

too_far_into_it said:


> Short answer is we believe Jesus is the son of god, has died for our sins and rose again on the third day. Once saved ALWAYS saved.
> 
> I don't know the reason you have asked this question, but I will say to you that Christians are not better than other people but they are better off. Christians are not perfect and do still sin. Some reading my post my believe that we live a sinful life and they would be correct. Everyone lives a sinful life. I feel that I answer to my husband and he answers to god. If I disobey my husband I am then am disobeying God.
> 
> ...


Whew, that was a full load! As you know it's very difficult to discern ones heart and intentions thru print. I thought the smiley might be an indication that it was a direct yet non-judgemental question that I was curious to know. I am a woman, a mother and a wife. I empathize/sympathize with your situation. 

I can understand your feelings about "church people" that's why it's so great that your relationship with God is your own. It's so very personal and independant of anyone...preachers included
You say that you believe that you answer to your husband and he answers to God. What do you do when what your husband wants contradicts what God wants? Who is your allegiance to first and foremost as a christian? (I hope you've gotten a feel now, that I'm not judging


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## gardener1965 (Oct 20, 2009)

:iagree:
with Alexandra. You can stay AND take care of yourself if that is what you want in your heart.

I also agree with you, Too Far, that way too many times the only answer given on this site is to leave the marriage. But I think that most people come to this site to seek advice other than leaving. I've been on other sites where this is even more prevalant. That and always jumping right to the cheating conclusion. 

I also agree that I think your husband has low self esteem. That is the reason most people pick on others - it makes them feel bigger. Prasie him when (if) he makes you feel good and ignore (try to) when he cuts you down. Your reaction is part of why he does it, if you don't engage him, maybe he will stop. Maybe not, or maybe he will get worse before he gets better. I don't know if these suggestions will help, but I do know you will feel better if you are doing things for yourself that make you happy and if you can try to see that he has a problem unrelated to you. 

When my ex used to do this to me, my Mom gave me a great piece of advice: Just becasue he says something about you does not make it true, even if he believes it, which he probably doesn't. Do something today, no matter how small, just for yourself. And feel good about it!


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## too_far_into_it (Jan 6, 2010)

uncovered: I guess the word "evidence" threw me a little and I wasn't sure where you were going with it. My reaction to your post I think is a direct connection with my h cutting words. I never know how to take anything anyone says to me. Thanks for your advice. I'm thinking on the questions you asked. A debate goes on in my head about the sexual desires my husband has with the "swinging" thing. I know that in biblical times some men of god did have more than one wife etc. etc.

Alexandria, I have begun to do things for myself. I always have had my own money and have a pretty nice wardrobe and always have. My weight goes up and down, I'm an emotional eater. But anyway I lost some weight and h didn't want me to lose my butt or boobs, so we compromised and I got lipo to take care of areas I was unhappy with while keeping areas that he loves. I know not 100 percent for me, but it was mostly for me (as it's easier to get fat sucked out in an afternoon than spend 6 months trying to get rid of problem areas to no avial) and I can't wait to get my legs done in '10. I've had it three times twice on my stomach and once on my arms. I am also going to be getting some chemical peels and other procedures done. I'm lovin' my new ps doc. tee hee. H is a little antsy about how good I'm looking, I think he's worried I'll become a goddess and leave him. Too bad he doesn't know I was considering leaving him when I was over 200 lbs tee hee. I've always been pretty attractive and with serious help I hope to age gracefully LOL. Not trying to ring my bell here just feeling a lot better about myself in the last year than I have in a long long time.

gardener:The self esteem thing is really a big one. I'm trying to help him, but sometimes I just hope he feels a badly as he makes me feel.
On Friday night he was drinking quite a bit and I had one drink, so I opened up to him a little. I told him a little bit about what I felt about his reactions to the other guy thing. I told him that I had found a site that I was talking to some cyber friends about and that I understood that just because he likes to see me do what he likes to see me do LOL, that I think he does love me and cherish me. Anyway I was able to look at him and talk to him on Sat. and we even made whoopie. Then low and behold Sunday morning were watching tv and a cooking show that cooks with ALL high fat and calories and I commented on the cook and her fat butt and legs and just couldn't believe how she was not even trying to use healthy ingredients. I was amazed just because it was a little culture shock to me. I've been getting my recipes from clean eating mag. and watching so closely my calories. Well he made a pretty hurtful comment, not due to my weight, but to my previous bi-racial relationship. Instantly all the feelings came flooding back and I started to run the most hurtful things he has said and done to me over and over in my head again. Cripes, I hate feeling like this, especially on the weekend when I'm stuck inside with him all day. I tried to go tell him how I felt and he turned it into an issue about him. I had to listen to what HE wanted to say and I never did get to tell him how he made me feel. So I'm having a beer and making some veg. soup. I garden too and I'm using all home grown veggies and canned tomatoes and juice. Do you garden? I'm guessing from your screen name you do. If so is it veggie garden, flower garden or both?

Thanks so much for everyone who is helping me. This is much better than therapy. ITS FREE


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## gardener1965 (Oct 20, 2009)

I'm so sorry he did that to you, but it lools like you responded with doing something healthy and good for yourself. I grow both flowers and some veggies - I am not so good at the veggies We try to eat healthy, getting older and I have heart problems in my family. We are pretty active, we live on a lake and we swim and have waverunners in the summer - I try to stay active in the winter, but it is not as easy.
I have decided to wait to talk to my h until during the week, and just let the weekend be good, which it has been. He is making breakfast now for us and he started some dinner in the slow cooker. 
I know about wanting to make him feel badly. When my h gets me upset and I am crying and hurting, he always seems so calm and I feel like I wish he felt as bad as me. But when I look at it honestly, I think he does, but in his own way. I bet your h does feel badly, he just shows it in a different way than you and which sometimes hurts you. I am glad you were able to talk some with him and sorry things went downhill after that. Try not to keep thinking about the negative things he has said, I know it is hard, because I do it too, but it only makes you feel worse. Keep up the positive and hang in there!:smthumbup:


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## uncovered (Jul 14, 2009)

uncovered: I guess the word "evidence" threw me a little and I wasn't sure where you were going with it. My reaction to your post I think is a direct connection with my h cutting words. I never know how to take anything anyone says to me. Thanks for your advice. I'm thinking on the questions you asked. A debate goes on in my head about the sexual desires my husband has with the "swinging" thing. I know that in biblical times some men of god did have more than one wife etc. etc.


I understand! I guess one of the many things I meant by evidence is, are the choices you're making a result of God's leading? And evidence of doing those things that He leads is inward peace, confidence, hope, joy and self-control amongst others. Many times the heaviness and depression, confusion and lack of peace that we humans experience can be traced back to decisions.

In biblical times people did all sorts of things because they were human....as are we. And we benefit from their stories by seeing the need for God's wisdom and direction so that we don't end up making some of the mistakes they made........and living with some of the consequences.

By the way, if your husband makes the choice to do those things that are contrary to God's perfect plan for your lives YOU can still decide to do things God's way and your husband can be "won over" by YOUR behavior. You can literally begin to set the tone for your home and your marriage by simply deciding to ****allow**** God to teach you order and the proper way of doing things


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks for your reply. I think that it is amazing that you do all of this for your husband and later he treats you so badly. I know that alot of women would never do this for their husband (my wife is probably one of them). Try sitting down with him and tell him that you don't mind doing these things for him, but you are not going to do them if he treats you badly after. Try to state this calmly and just matter of factly. Tell him how it makes you feel. Try to also tell him some things that you like about him as well, so he won't feel like it is just a discussion on what is wrong with him. Why do you think it is a bad idea to include a friend? as opposed to a stranger? I also am very curious: I know you stated that you didn't want to do it because it might ruin your marriage, but while you were doing it, was it something that exicted you as well, or were you just going through the motions for your husband's sake. I wouldn't want my wife to just lay there, I would want her to be genuinly aroused and into it. I'm not sure who we would ask, but I would prefer it be someone she knows and I don't and that she is attracted to.


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## too_far_into_it (Jan 6, 2010)

Russ: I'm really serious about the "someone you know thing". It is complicated enough to decide to embark on these actions let alone complicating it with a friend or someone who knows you and your family. I think you mentioned you have kids. No matter how much you trust a person to keep your secrets, things happen and people are human. It could end up getting out and getting back to your family. There are clubs all over the US with a couples, male singles, female singles who are into this. You've obviously got the internet at your fingertips, google your area, but I'd caution you to maybe go an hour or two out of town as you may see some people from your immediate area if you pick a location too close. The other issue with friends is jealousy. Even if you think you won't be jealous you will or she will have issues with seeing this person. What if this friend likes it, and wants your wife for himself and then tries to persuade her into a relationship that doesn't include you. I think this is what my husband began to suspect. Though maybe the friend did have that on his mind, I did not. My h got some vibes somehow. IT WILL CAUSE PROBLEMS EVENTUALLY MARK MY WORDS.

You need to make sure you and your w are both completely ok with this too. AND you need to be in a stable, committed relationship. At the time we did this I thought we were ok. And we were at the time. We just had too many issues and I'm not sure why you are on this site, but if you having trouble now your going to have 100 times the trouble later if you don't really really think this through and make sure it is what BOTH of you want.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks for your reply. I'm on this site because I have had several issues with my wife (as she has with me) and I thought it would be a good way to get some insight. I'm not really into swinging sites because I wouldn't want my wife with someone who has been with alot of different men. If it were up to me, I would have her be with someone she knows (and is attracted to) but I do not know. Early in our relationship (before we were married) I had a friend whom she knew (not a good friend of hers but my best friend) who was a virgin. We were talking about him one day and she stated out of the blue "would you like me to have sex with him once so he wouldn't be a virgin any longer?" I was floored that she would offer that. Because it was my best friend I said no because he would have probably told every one we knew. My wife has changed alot since then and is active in our church as a volunteer, and I just don't know how I would even bring this up anymore. It is by far my BIGEST fantasy, and she has absolutely no idea that I have it. I realize there are issues in our marriage, and it would be a risk, but I still want to try it. Maybe this could be like a once a year thing on my birthday or something like that. I don't know. I know that my wife will not cheat on me as she went to France last year with her church group (not with me) and I basically said that if anything were to happen over there, it would be ok with me. basically, an invitation to have a one night stand if she wanted to. She said she would never do anything like that. As a matter of fact when she came back she told me that a couple of guys hit on her while she was there and she just turned them down. I don't know how I could even approach her about this because of what her reaction would be but it is eating me up inside. Any suggestions?


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## too_far_into_it (Jan 6, 2010)

Russ: Consider yourself warned. Good luck.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks. I hope you and your husband can work out your problems. You sound like a terrific wife who has done alot to please her husband. Just take it one day at a time, but prepare for a future without him just in case. I do have one more question for you. As a women, do you think you would have been more open to the idea if your husband had asked told you that he just wanted to watch you make out with someone with a little bit of groping? No sex involved. I was thinking of this as a compromise. If she does this for me, I will do something for her that I don't really want to do. Would you consider doing this, more than you would have considered having sex with another man? or would they both have been about the same? This is how I am considering approaching my wife, but I do not know if she would view it in the same way. Thanks for your insight!


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## too_far_into_it (Jan 6, 2010)

"*I will do something for her that I really don't want to do if she does this for me"*

Whatever you ask her to do is up to you. I don't know how she will react. I would not do anything you do not want to do if she does it for you anyway. Your brewing a cesspool.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

but would you view making out with someone like sex? I value your opinion because you are a women about my wife's age who has done something for her husband that I would like my wife to do. I really don't know if she would view them as basically the same thing. If you had been very opposed to the sex thing, would you have been more open to just making out? Your insight is invaluable to me, even though I know that all women are different. By the way, are things any better with the way your husband treats you?


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## too_far_into_it (Jan 6, 2010)

russ: Talk to your wife, spill your guts. No I would not view making out with any different that full blown sex. I did it. I was open to the fact. I did not like his reaction after the fact. 

If this is something you need from your wife the only way to find out is to ask her. You said she joked about it in the beginning. Just ask her.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks for your help. I just need to get the guts to ask her. I am very afraid of her response. Are things any better with your husband?


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## too_far_into_it (Jan 6, 2010)

I wanted to post here in my first post. I first put down the problems in my marriage here about 4 1/2 months ago. I have been dealing with his abuse for 19 years.

I am finally free!!!!! I filed for divorce about 10 days ago, he has been served and I feel so free. I am still in the same house with him as we are fixing up the marital home and placing it on the market. I have taken the reins and am hiring help to get the house in top shape for re-sale.

I was so worried about how our financial situation was going to turn out, and this is why I put off filing for a while, I just couldn't take it any more and snapped. I'm so glad I did. I don't know how things are going to turn out in the end, but my brother is helping me get the work done on the house. I am going to keep purchasing materials until I run out of money. I still don't have a car, but asked for the marital vehicle in my complaint. It isn't really safe to drive but I'll just take the bus if I have too. There is always a way to get out. I guess I just had to be done, and I am. FINALLY after all this time I have stood as a rock.

He is pretty much devastated. Pretty ironic really. After all of the hateful, hurtful, degrading abuse. He turns out to be the weak one. He has dropped 30 lbs in just 6 weeks. So today the guy that he had me sleep with calls my cell phone. I hadn't heard from him in months. He is my stbx's very good friend. When stbx wanted me to sleep with him he would throw me his phone when he called so I could seduce him into another affair. Anyway I was in the bathroom when he called and my stbx came to get me to tell me he had just called my phone, the other guy just wanted to talk about a mutual friend who's home has just burnt down. This guy obviously has heard I filed for divorce, because he kept saying the he and I needed to get a fundraiser together for them, but my stbsx is in panic mode. I would not give this guy a chance in hell EVER, but it's pretty ironic to me that stbx is getting exactly what he asked for... only not even close to the way he imagined it. Serves him right!!!!!

It feels so good to be free of this baggage. I've had my days, but all in all I'm so much happier knowing its almost over.


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## talin (Apr 25, 2012)

There is no right or wrong in relationships.

Let me say this another way.

Let's say your partner did something totally out of line, inappropriate, over the top, morally unacceptable, illegal, whatever.

That almost doesn't matter. It matters whether they're willing to accept that the behavior is not acceptable to YOU, and/or whether or not you're willing to put up with the behavior if they're unwilling to change it.


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