# Opinions on MC



## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

"Counsellors are usually not good at all and make things worse and charge fees you can ill afford. They wont tell you who is right or wrong, that is not the way they work. They will spend long fruitless hours (and charge huge fees) trying to make you both 'understand' which you never will. Dont waste your money there unless you know in advance they will make decisions how you should run your life which is really what you both want." 

************

Im going to start this week so wondering. 

Is this pretty much the general consensus?


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Wow, if you feel that way, why are you going?

I will say that counseling (especially IC) has made a huge difference in my life. 

If you want someone to tell you who is right or wrong, go see a referee or judge. If you want someone to provide an avenue to explore the dynamics of a relationship in a safe setting, so that both folks can make improvements for the benefit of the relationship, then MC is for you.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

MC can be helpful if you're both committed to making things work. If one is resisting or uncooperative, you're probably wasting your time. If the issue isn't one that can be solved by improved communication and compromise, then MC won't help. Sometimes IC may help an individual, which may then help the relationship or make it possible for MC to be effective.

MC seldom refer you to a divorce lawyer, but that should be one of their functions, IMO.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

This is not my statement, it was a response to another thread I started requesting advise. I just noticed from lurking that it is stated on here more often than I would have expected. 

Actually, I was surprised to hear it at all.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Counseling is like every other profession. There are good ones and bad ones. A common complaint with bad counselors is that they side with one spouse against the other. If you run into one of those, change counselors until you find a good one.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

We had to change counselor a a couple times before finding one we both felt comfortable with. As someone stated above, there are good ones and bad ones, and there are some who are or are not a better fit for you and your spouse. To say that they're a waste of time and money is wrong. A good counselor will not side with one party or call out who is right and who is wrong.

MC can be invaluable if both spouses are willing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> Counseling is like every other profession. There are good ones and bad ones. A common complaint with bad counselors is that they side with one spouse against the other. If you run into one of those, change counselors until you find a good one.



Agreed. Counselors are supposed to help couples find ways to fix their problems, not take sides or pass judgement like a judge in court. The only exception would be very extreme cases, such as if one spouse had a serious drug addiction, was abusing children, or was dangerously violent, etc. 

To the OP, if you are worried about MC, think of it this way. If your relationship is in a bad place, do you have anything to lose by going?

My wife and I went to MC only once, but I wish we had done more (we moved frequently and it was difficult to keep it up). We have solved these issues now, but I think it took a lot longer than it would have if we had stuck with MC.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Every counselor has a unique personality and belief system that "flavors" their interactions with patients. Any one counselor might be trained to various degrees in one or several types of techniques... Gestalt, Rational-Emotive, Psychoanalysis, Neuro-linguistic programming, and more. The clinics they work for might or might not accept a particular patient's insurance. And then there are the patients themselves, each with their own personalities, motivations, and belief systems. The social norms of the day play a role in how they treat things, too. If childhood trauma is getting a lot of attention in the trade literature, they'll focus more on that aspect as it plays in your relationship than if behavioral change is a more popular topic. 

Having a very well-trained, happily married (my opinion) therapist is half the battle, but being the right patients is the other half. 

Often, these variables don't come together to produce the best outcome, but sometimes they can.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Sounds like a statement from someone with a bad experience. PHT is correct, there are good and bad members of every profession. The advice here is solid, find a counselor that appears to be neutral and has the success of the marriage as the goal. My wife and I attended counseling for about 6 months. It was helpful but was not a magic pill, it was only part of the solution. But she did point out some of the positives of the marriage and encouraged us to spend more time together, limit the drinking..... But she also missed the boat on my wife's EA. In the end we recovered but there was a lot more work to it than just the counselling sessions. Move forward with it and hopefully it will help. It needs to be viewed as an investment in your marriage not just a cost out of the checking account. Good luck.


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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

I was the original poster on a different thread and I must disagree with all of you. Why shouldnt a counselor say who is right or wrong. That is not the same as taking sides. Usually they are both sometimes right and sometimes wrong. His job should be to make a working relationship.

If one is a taker that is where the problem usually lies and certainly if both are. No amount of 'explanations' will help


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

accept1 said:


> I was the original poster on a different thread and I must disagree with all of you. Why shouldnt a counselor say who is right or wrong. That is not the same as taking sides. Usually they are both sometimes right and sometimes wrong.


Sure, but what's the point of just rehashing every previous argument the couple had? 

Of course a counselor can say that certain actions or behaviors are wrong, but that shouldn't be the main focus of the counseling session. It isn't an episode of "Judge Judy" where one person determines guilt and assesses damages. 



> His job should be to make a working relationship.


Exactly!! But if the counselor spends all his/her time finding out who was right or wrong in every argument, what is really accomplished? The more important goal is to help them get along and figure out how to constructively solve their problems themselves.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

The problem I see boils down to this: Even the best trained person cannot create compatibility or commitment where it does not exist.


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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> The problem I see boils down to this: Even the best trained person cannot create compatibility or commitment where it does not exist.


I would say further that if you have to go to a counselor it most likely doesnt exist. 

The only reason to go which I keep on stressing is like if you have to stay together for the children perhaps or if you dont believe in divorce.

Then his job ought to be to create a working relationship. They do not want this to be their role. It wouldnt pay enough. One session can usually accomplish this. 

I dont know if there is already a thread here but it would be interesting to see how many people have been really helped by counselling. Considering so many counselors advertise here it is surprising none of them have come back on this and explain their role and how much success they have had if any. 

They are also good at teaching people how to get through the divorce. They often advise this even though the couple never wanted it in the first place. They show up faults which were never noticed before. 

I do remember once both the man and woman had separate threads on here and we all through our replies brought them together. 

Why isnt there a special section on here for this. It is free and will bring much better results than any private counselor.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

LOL, accept1. Funny you should say that... 

As a former drug and alcohol counselor, I worked at a clinic where we measured the recidivism rate - patients who came back after being "treated" previously. 

When counseling was raised as a possibility for my stepdaughter's issues, I asked counselors how they confirm their effectiveness, whether they do periodic follow-ups with patients, etc. and the few that do ANY follow-up usually only do it for the first couple of months. 

As a person who spent many years on the patient side of the desk, I can say that individual counseling caused me about as many problems as it solved. However, as I look back over the years, what I learned was helpful to a large degree, too. I use what I learned constantly, but had to discover how to use the information successfully through an awful lot of trial and error because counseling cannot adjust a person's deep belief systems, values, and perceptions beyond that person's abilities to use the information.... IF the counselor really understands how to get to those matters in the first place!

Some acquaintances of mine recently were having problems that became rather public. They wanted to see a MC but couldn't afford one. I told them to come browse this site. Last time I saw them, they said they didn't even have to post, because they saw an existing post and the answers there helped them get back on track.


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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

'''''Exactly!! But if the counselor spends all his/her time finding out who was right or wrong in every argument, what is really accomplished? The more important goal is to help them get along and figure out how to constructively solve their problems themselves.''''

I will also repeat EXACTLY. Most arguments keep on repeating themselves. Knowing one is wrong will stop this repetition. If they have to go to a counselor they are most likely not capable of solving problems themselves. 

Once they have some idea of right and wrong (and many people have no idea they only think of themselves) this is the best way teaching them to solve problems themselves. 

The counselor usually says they are both right so as to make sure they come again. He/she is scared to offend either of them thinking they wont come back again. If he were to act as judge and both parties know this in advance arguments would be settled and peace and harmony would reign. 

If any counselor advertising on here reading this would be prepared to do this, I can assure him he would get many clients. Most people think they are right that is only natural and it needs a third person to decide. 

If then one doesnt want to abide by his decisions still thinking he/she is right, then divorce would be the only answer.


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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

to KathyBatesel

I am not sure whose side of the fence you are on. 
You seem a talented writer as well as having been going through counseling and knowing all about it. 

It begs the question why couldnt you manage your step daughter on your own. 

You say you have had a lot of practice, I suppose with different counselors. I am surprised they could really teach you anything. 
Perhaps we can hear more about it. Or maybe on your blog you have articles about it. 

But as you say each person is different and they are not you. A person has to be himself in marriage and not the copy of someone else.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

MC didn't work for us, but I think that was because of US, not because of the counselor. I think if both people want the counseling to work and are committed to working on themselves and making positive change, then counseling can work. But it also depends of finding a counselor/therapist who is a good fit for the couple in question. 

For example, our therapist was nice, but I'm not sure that she recognized that my STBXH was blowing smoke up her @ss the entire time. And she was really fixated on this light therapy thing, which she said would help neutralize negative associations with bad memories, which we were both really skeptical about. The STBXH tried it in one of his IC sessions with her, but he said he didn't really feel any different or get the point.


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## pb76no (Nov 1, 2012)

MC worked for us in the sense it gave us a neutral place to talk about things we couldn't (or more accurately wouldn't) on our own. It also gave us structure to work through issues and a specific scheduled time to do that.

It didn't "solve" anything. That was still up to us.

As for the counselor staying neutral, yes I think they should. Be we would also have separate sessions where the counselor could give me (and her I assume) strategies for dealing with the other's "problems" or sticking points.


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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

Why would one want to spend time and money on a counselor if one isnt interested to make it work.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

accept1 said:


> Why would one want to spend time and money on a counselor if one isnt interested to make it work.


Sometimes someone doesn't realize (or don't want to admit) that they don't want it to work, until they go through the counseling. Or they're just doing it so they can claim that they did everything to make the marriage work.

Personally, I didn't realize how UN-INVESTED my STBXH really was until we went to counseling. He SAID he wanted to fix the marriage and "would do whatever it takes to save the marriage," but when it came to actually DOING the "whatever it takes," he didn't DO any of it.

For me, counseling opened my eyes to the hopelessness of the situation, and showed me that he was never going to change, and how mis-matched his words and actions really were. MC didn't save my marriage, but it may have saved my sanity.


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

"Counsellors are usually not good at all and make things worse and charge fees you can ill afford. They wont tell you who is right or wrong, that is not the way they work. They will spend long fruitless hours (and charge huge fees) trying to make you both 'understand' which you never will. Dont waste your money there unless you know in advance they will make decisions how you should run your life which is really what you both want." 

...heh...

On one hand, that was exactly my wife's opinion. On the other hand, well, turned out she had a personality disorder. (BPD).

My experience has been that marriage counselors can be useful in a bunch of different ways. Or that they can be a waste of time.

1. If you're both vested in the R/S and looking for ways to improve interactions by working on behavioral changes...then...sure...a few months of M/C are likely to be useful. But, you probably didn't need it. Still, useful ain't bad.
2. If one of you is a bit off, then MC can be a useful way to figure that out. Basically, the one storming in demanding that the other person change and refusing to accept responsibility and then blaming the MC is probably problematic. Now sure, nothing improves, but at least you get some suspicions confirmed.
3. Maintenance - if you need a bit of structure to make sure you don't let things slip, then periodic maintenance is a great thing.

Overall, I found MCs to be fairly uniform in competence. They tended to be a bit crazier than your average person, but not too bad. I did divide them into 'listeners' and 'teachers'. Listeners get paid to listen to people whine and teachers try to teach more productive behaviors. Both have merit, but I think just listening without providing input runs out of utility at some point.

To a large extent, if you go through several MCs and have problems with them, the problem is almost certainly on your end. 

OTOH, there comes a point where the 100+ USD and a few hours of time spent talking about problems can be more productively spent on a nice evening out. 

--Argyle


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

MC last year nearly broke up our marriage. The counselor kept missing the subtle signals and only focused on our words. I mentioned this to him and he said this showed that I had a "core issue" unrelated to MC and therefore it should not be brought up in a session as it wasted everyone's time. To me this was absolute nonsense.
We left those sessions bitterly angry and barely speaking because the MC stirred up issues that did not get resolved, due to this bizarre philosophy.
We are now in MC with a counselor who is adept at spotting little signals (gestures, facial expressions, word choice, etc.), and is night and day different in guiding us back to a happy place.
I know that the first MC has a great reputation locally but he just wasn't right for us. 
It pays to trust your instincts IMHO.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

accept1 said:


> to KathyBatesel
> 
> I am not sure whose side of the fence you are on.
> You seem a talented writer as well as having been going through counseling and knowing all about it.
> ...


For a couple reasons, and it's semi-related to this topic: 

1. Counseling involved an inherent authority position in relationship to the person or people being counselled. In our case, my husband had a much different viewpoint than I do, and I chose to disengage rather than allow a power struggle between him and me. 

2. Being a counselor requires an emotional detachment that's not always appropriate for personal relationships. It's also tough to be objective with things that affect us personally. (For instance, when my stepdaughter stole my belongings, I am emotionally involved.) 

3. Being a counselor is a not, not an identity. I'm still a human being with flaws and expectations. Relationships always involve two people with different values and belief systems. When more people are involved, it gets complicated. 

Although I use a great deal of my training and learning on a daily basis, and certainly did use many of these techniques with my stepdaughter (and my own children, for that matter), there's a big difference between an hour a week in a counseling office and living life.

As far as what side of the fence I am on, the answer is that I am straddling the fence. There are benefits to counseling and there are drawbacks. If they are weighed carefully, counseling can produce an excellent outcome, but if they're miscalculated or poorly thought out, there can be negative consequences that endure for years.


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## LivingAgain (Jun 12, 2013)

MC did not work for my marriage but H was not open to the process. I educated myself with tons of reading on marriage and relationships and read things to him before MC. I had a nagging feeling he just said the "right things" from what we had learned on our own but never really opened himself up to it.

If you both are fully committed to the process, MC can work. I recommend finding one that gives you "homework" - practicing the tools they should be teaching you.

Good luck!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

LivingAgain said:


> MC did not work for my marriage but H was not open to the process. I educated myself with tons of reading on marriage and relationships and read things to him before MC. I had a nagging feeling he just said the "right things" from what we had learned on our own but never really opened himself up to it.
> 
> If you both are fully committed to the process, MC can work. I recommend finding one that gives you "homework" - practicing the tools they should be teaching you.
> 
> Good luck!


My STBXH did pretty much the same thing - he said what he knew the therapist wanted to hear, to make himself look like the "victim" of a crazy wife. When they continued with IC after he and I separated, he kept up the charade. He wasted 6+ mos of IC (that he could have REALLY benefited from) because he's incapable of being honest and just being himself.

But he wouldn't do the homework... he talked a good game, but his actions spoke very loudly.


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## LivingAgain (Jun 12, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> He wasted 6+ mos of IC (that he could have REALLY benefited from) because* he's incapable of being honest and just being himself.*
> 
> But he wouldn't do the homework...* he talked a good game, but his actions spoke very loudly.*


:iagree: I think we married clones! LOL


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

I really think it depends why you are going.

I had a bad experience but not because of the counselor.. although.. I wish he had taken the abusive factor in my relationship a bit more seriously.
After seeing him my stbxh was a bit more understanding of his actions (because it wasn't me just saying it) But in our case that didn't matter.

Maybe 3 months after MC said that he just doesn't see things improving and we should write out a contract (my stbx and I) about how many more sessions we are willing to do. But stbx never went back.

They will tell you if you are wrong/right BUT yes they will bounce back and forth.. so both of you have issues.

After going through all that I saw a psychiatrist because I was having panic attacks and she was shocked at what my MC recommended, as was a woman's counselling group.

If you guys are disconnected you will basically have to write down the good things that person does for you (your homework) then share that in MC.. go on "dates" etc.

You can probably see why that won't work when dealing with abusive relationships. 

I think you should research and try to get some referrals to someone good, it's really hard to tell what they will be like. And it was a bit expensive and weird with billing for me, my psychiatrist after MC ended up seeing me for 45min-1 hour for counselling and it was less expensive. But I don't think most psychiatrist do that.


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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

Still no word from the hundreds of counselors who advertise on this site. Dont they have time to read what people write here. Or do they know it all and have no need to.

I think I should reiterate my opinion of counselors.

First and foremost they are in it for the money. That means to make sure you come back often. In the UK where doctors are free and get the same amount of money per patient how ever often you attend they do their best to make you better quickly and so called get rid of you quickly. If counselors where the same more marriages wouldnt split up.

They realise quickly which 'partner' is the one being 'forced' to attend. This is usually the case. So that partner has to be sweet talked however wrong he/she may be or they wont come back.

Sex is usually 'downgraded' in other words they are of the opinion that everything else has to fit in first. This is wrong since sex is often the very cause. 

Many counselors are very reluctant to talk about sex. It seems this subject makes them seem 'lower' in the eyes of the partners. As though they are above it. So if sex is the problem and it often is make sure your counselor does not consider the subject taboo. 

Counselors like doctors and most professionals like to give the impression that they are above you. That they know what you dont. This is rarely the case. And what they do know or have studied has usually nothing to do with your individual problems.

They are human like you and often themselves divorced and many times married. Having all their knowledge doesnt usually help them either. People are naturally 'takers' and not 'givers' and will always have good reasons for being this. 

A good marriage can only be when one at least is prepared to 'give' in. This used to have to be the woman. Today when both are not prepared to 'give' in this will always cause conflict and arguments.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

LivingAgain said:


> :iagree: I think we married clones! LOL



Ha ha - I didn't realize how un-unique my situation was until I got to TAM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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