# LD vs Asexual



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

There have been a lot of discussions here on the issues with LD/HD relationships. I'm wondering though why we seem to skirt around the idea of asexuality. Various reading seems to suggest that it is a reasonable term for some of the people we've been referring to as LD. I presume like all sexual interests it isn't an absolute, but would it make sense to refer to people with much lower than typical levels of sexual desire, and for whom sex is simply not important as "asexual"?

Thoughts?


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## bkyln309 (Feb 1, 2015)

I believe my ex husband is asexual. He had zero sex drive, never watched porn, did not masturbate. He simply has zero interest in sex by his own admission. He said he didnt know what the big deal was surrounding sex at all. Of course I knew none of this before marriage or I wouldnt have married him (we stupidly waited until after marriage for sex which hid this well).


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I’ve heard the term often, but in other worlds, so to speak. 

Since my wife is bisexual I’ve also been involved some in LBGT issues, and the term asexual is common on boards about those issues.

My suspicion is because people with different sexual orientations see both sexual orientation and desire along a continuum. Or, that’s been how those I have spoken with often conceptualize their issues. I’ve noted this since before the turn of the century.

Oddly though, the term asexual is used often but no term for other positions on that spectrum are used. People say they wonder if they are asexual or not. They don’t say they wonder if they are asexual or wildly amorous.

As you can imagine I have gotten myself in trouble from time to time.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

But what is asexual? What causes it?

Even from googling that a snipet from psychology today says

" Asexuality is a highly charged concept. One camp of sexologists' claim that it is, and should be recognized as a major sexual orientation like heterosexuality, homosexuality and bisexuality are. The other camp sees it as nothing more than low libido or a generalized type of Hypoactive Sexual Desire ..."


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Two asexuals are sitting on a tree....
S-I-T-T-I-N-G.

What's the difference between a pan- and a-sexual?
It's all or nothing.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

How to explain. 

I have never had any interest in sex. I don't see the appeal at all. My body can respond if it has to but it's a "meh" experience -- more or less okay but nothing I ever wanted to repeat. Yes, I have CSA in my past but there are also people like me who don't have CSA in their past. Why does this happen? Who knows. My thought is that we are all somewhere on the spectrum and this is just where people like me are. No more, no less. Too bad I didn't realize that when I was young. 

My advice if you are married to someone like me? Get out if sex is that important to you because it will never be important to people like me.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

It actually seems completely reasonable that there would be a range. 

What I think is surprising is that society seems to believe that there is part of that range that is OK, but wanting too little or too much sex is somehow "wrong" in a basic way.

I think misery comes from society being unwilling to discuss the issue and make it clear how important sexual compatibility is in a relationship. Too often a mismatch is viewed as someone "at fault". 




Openminded said:


> How to explain.
> 
> I have never had any interest in sex. I don't see the appeal at all. My body can respond if it has to but it's a "meh" experience -- more or less okay but nothing I ever wanted to repeat. Yes, I have CSA in my past but there are also people like me who don't have CSA in their past. Why does this happen? Who knows. My thought is that we are all somewhere on the spectrum and this is just where people like me are. No more, no less. Too bad I didn't realize that when I was young.
> 
> My advice if you are married to someone like me? Get out if sex is that important to you because it will never be important to people like me.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

actually, Asexual people DO often masturbate. Go figure.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

In some ways, this reminds me of one argument they used to use against gays.

"If everyone were gay, there would be no more people".

Ok, sure. But that doesn't mean that everyone on the planet has to be heterosexual to continue the species. Plenty of other species show the utility of having a certain class of worker or drone or nursemaid or whatever you wish to call it that never reproduces. By my count, we could use a few more gays. 

Same goes for the asexuals. The implication is always that they must be broken, that biology would never allow for someone to have no sex drive. I don't buy that. There are tails to the distribution, and someone has to live out at the edges.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Uhtred-- yes, it's unfortunate that so often mismatches happen. I went into marriage without a clue. What I learned over time is there are many like me for whom sex just never registered as a need (or, in my case, even as a slight interest). It's just not there. I understand completely your wife not being sexually attracted to anyone -- why would you be when you don't want to have sex.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Cletus said:


> In some ways, this reminds me of one argument they used to use against gays.
> 
> "If everyone were gay, there would be no more people".
> 
> ...


Indeed. Over 6 billion people and climbing. Needs to stop.

But more gays is proving to be a nonviable solution as gays are having children as well. Not with each other, of course, but they find sperm donors/surrogates so at least one member of the couple can be a biological parent. 

Even asexual people want to parent. How many women marry men, get the kids they want, and then shut down the sex factory?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

uhtred said:


> There have been a lot of discussions here on the issues with LD/HD relationships. I'm wondering though why we seem to skirt around the idea of asexuality. Various reading seems to suggest that it is a reasonable term for some of the people we've been referring to as LD. I presume like all sexual interests it isn't an absolute, but would it make sense to refer to people with much lower than typical levels of sexual desire, and for whom sex is simply not important as "asexual"?
> 
> Thoughts?


About 1% of the population is asexual.

About 10% of men and 10% of women do not want sex with their spouse. Clearly most of these people are not LD, or asexual. Studies that have been done on the topic of spouses (male & female) who don't want sex with their spouse (or hardly ever want it) report that the reasoning behind the not wanting sex in most marriage is anger and resentment. These people are NOT LD. They just do not want sex with their spouse. 

It's easy to just call the withholding spouse LD because then there is nothing that can be done about it... it means that no one has to look at the failures in the marriage, take responsibility and work hard to fix things or end the broken marriage.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Talker67 said:


> actually, Asexual people DO often masturbate. Go figure.


To what?


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Cletus said:


> In some ways, this reminds me of one argument they used to use against gays.
> 
> "If everyone were gay, there would be no more people".
> 
> ...


Im now picturing some poor drone bee wondering why his non-queen worker bee wife never wants to "do it". :rofl:


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Even asexual people want to parent. How many women marry men, get the kids they want, and then shut down the sex factory?


They keep the factory open for the tax write-off. They just close down the shipping and receiving departments.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

How would you distinguish the two cases?

Is the 1% number maybe taking too narrow a definition of people who never want sex? There seem to be a fair number discussed here who want occasional sex, sometimes of a limited form. Maybe that isn't "asexual" by some strict definition but its in that direction?

In a similar way there are a fair number of people who are mostly gay / lesbian but have on occasion had sex with an opposite-sex partner. 




EleGirl said:


> About 1% of the population is asexual.
> 
> About 10% of men and 10% of women do not want sex with their spouse. Clearly most of these people are not LD, or asexual. Studies that have been done on the topic of spouses (male & female) who don't want sex with their spouse (or hardly ever want it) report that the reasoning behind the not wanting sex in most marriage is anger and resentment. These people are NOT LD. They just do not want sex with their spouse.
> 
> It's easy to just call the withholding spouse LD because then there is nothing that can be done about it... it means that no one has to look at the failures in the marriage, take responsibility and work hard to fix things or end the broken marriage.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

What makes this topic even more complex is the role of attraction and compatibility.

I do believe there is a certain segment of the population that is asexual and has no sexual interest or drive.

I have known a few of those people personally. 

But the people I know personally never married, never had a steady GF/BF, rarely dated and if they did have an occasional date here and there they were pretty much "meh" about it when asked about it afterwards.

Now I realize some of those folks may still want some if the other benefits of marriage besides romance and sexuality and I realize some of them slip through the cracks and do ultimately marry.

But I think the majority of these, "my spouse won't have sex with me..." threads are usually some form of relationship, compatibility or attraction issues.

Countless people have discovered their supposedly 'asexual' is actually quite sexual. ......but with someone else. 

What would these supposedly asexual people do if Channing Tatum or Anna Kendrick showed up on the scene? Would they turn down Channing or Anna because it was time for their afternoon latte or had a meeting with their scrap booking club?

I think the answer 9 times out of 10 will be no. 

I can't speak for the people in their early 20s today, but many people of my generation married their high school or first college sweetheart because that is what they were "supposed" to do.

Many of those people now may not have actually had sex in many years but it has nothing to do with being asexual or broken. It is their spouse has put on 100lbs and stopped caring. 

I'm not saying asexuality does not exist because I think it does (in very, very small numbers)

But often times terms like asexuality or LD are really only describing the current situation in the here and now. It is not a true catagorization of a person's actual innate state. 

They may be completely asexual with their current partner, but a tiger in bed with someone else.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

uhtred said:


> How would you distinguish the two cases?
> 
> Is the 1% number maybe taking too narrow a definition of people who never want sex? There seem to be a fair number discussed here who want occasional sex, sometimes of a limited form. Maybe that isn't "asexual" by some strict definition but its in that direction?
> 
> In a similar way there are a fair number of people who are mostly gay / lesbian but have on occasion had sex with an opposite-sex partner.


I wouldn't, since they are not in my opinion two separate cases but two points along a continuum.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> What would these supposedly asexual people do if Channing Tatum or Anna Kendrick showed up on the scene? Would they turn down Channing or Anna because it was time for their afternoon latte or had a meeting with their scrap booking club?


Hell, I wouldn't turn down either one - and I'm not bisexual!

To quote Stephen Colbert - "I don't care where you stable your pony, that man's a stallion".


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

uhtred said:


> How would you distinguish the two cases?
> 
> Is the 1% number maybe taking too narrow a definition of people who never want sex? There seem to be a fair number discussed here who want occasional sex, sometimes of a limited form. Maybe that isn't "asexual" by some strict definition but its in that direction?
> 
> In a similar way there are a fair number of people who are mostly gay / lesbian but have on occasion had sex with an opposite-sex partner.


Asexuality is not based on behavior. It's based on the hormonal makeup of the person's body. Asexual people do not have normal hormonal responses. They basically have a physical/chemical defect and it's from birth, not a choice, not a change that happens after they are pissed off at their spouse. It's something that can actually be tested scientifically.

If the couple used to have a good sex life and the now "LD" spouse does not want sex, it's most likely that the "LD" is not "LD"/asexual. Instead it's most likely that they just do no longer want sex with their spouse. They are most likely angry and resentful of their spouse.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Asexuality is not based on behavior. It's based on the hormonal makeup of the person's body. Asexual people do not have normal hormonal responses. They basically have a physical/chemical defect and it's from birth, not a choice, not a change that happens after they are pissed off at their spouse. It's something that can actually be tested scientifically.
> 
> If the couple used to have a good sex life and the now "LD" spouse does not want sex, it's most likely that the "LD" is not "LD"/asexual. Instead it's most likely that they just do no longer want sex with their spouse. They are most likely angry and resentful of their spouse.


Bingo.

But it possibly means one of the most difficult things to hear for a spouse. I want and desire sex. Just not with you. At least not in our current form/situation. And this might be something that cannot change for some.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

In the case where someone has never had an active sex life would you consider them asexual?



EleGirl said:


> Asexuality is not based on behavior. It's based on the hormonal makeup of the person's body. Asexual people do not have normal hormonal responses. They basically have a physical/chemical defect and it's from birth, not a choice, not a change that happens after they are pissed off at their spouse. It's something that can actually be tested scientifically.
> 
> If the couple used to have a good sex life and the now "LD" spouse does not want sex, it's most likely that the "LD" is not "LD"/asexual. Instead it's most likely that they just do no longer want sex with their spouse. They are most likely angry and resentful of their spouse.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

...


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Middle of Everything said:


> Bingo.
> 
> But it possibly means one of the most difficult things to hear for a spouse. I want and desire sex. Just not with you. At least not in our current form/situation. And this might be something that cannot change for some.


That's why you suck it up and say, "NEXT"! I'm out.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> uhtred said:
> 
> 
> > How would you distinguish the two cases?
> ...


I wonder if taking birth control pills for years can contribute to a woman's loss of interest. Everyone quickly rushes to "get his T level checked" when men can't perform but many women alter their hormones for decades via "the pill".


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## bkyln309 (Feb 1, 2015)

My ex never wanted it even on the honeymoon. He still has no desire even after dating other women (none whom it has worked out with. Im sure largely due to this).


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## 2020hindsight (Nov 3, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> What makes this topic even more complex is the role of attraction and compatibility.
> 
> I do believe there is a certain segment of the population that is asexual and has no sexual interest or drive.
> 
> ...


If I had known that asexuality existed, I wouldn't have married. But I had no idea. I knew that I wasn't like other people in that I didn't experience sexual attraction and got nothing out of sex, but I didn't know there were other people like me out there (1% of the population). Also, I believed that one day my sexual side might just awaken, eventually, if I waited patiently. Lots of movies and books seemed to suggest that sexual awakening for woman could arrive later in life, with true love.



oldshirt said:


> Now I realize some of those folks may still want some if the other benefits of marriage besides romance and sexuality and I realize some of them slip through the cracks and do ultimately marry.


What about love? I fell in love several times before I got married. I got married because we both fell in love together. To me, love is not motivating sexually. I wanted to spend the rest of my life with that person and was completely devoted and dedicated to him. In time, I bore his children and raised them. But unfortunately my lifelong lack of sexual attraction and sexual response never did end.



oldshirt said:


> But I think the majority of these, "my spouse won't have sex with me..." threads are usually some form of relationship, compatibility or attraction issues.
> 
> Countless people have discovered their supposedly 'asexual' is actually quite sexual. ......but with someone else.
> 
> ...


Okay, but the true asexual, that 10th person, would naturally want to sit down with a very good-looking person and have a cup of tea and a chat. I'm not blind--I can tell when a person is extremely good-looking. I might think to myself, what a very good-looking person. But there no sexual component to that admiration.



oldshirt said:


> I can't speak for the people in their early 20s today, but many people of my generation married their high school or first college sweetheart because that is what they were "supposed" to do.
> 
> Many of those people now may not have actually had sex in many years but it has nothing to do with being asexual or broken. It is their spouse has put on 100lbs and stopped caring.
> 
> ...


Unlikely for that 1 in 100, who does not experience sexual attraction. But I agree there are many other cases where resentment or something else is getting in the way of sex.


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## 2020hindsight (Nov 3, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Asexuality is not based on behavior. *It's based on the hormonal makeup of the person's body. Asexual people do not have normal hormonal responses. They basically have a physical/chemical defect and it's from birth, not a choice, not a change that happens after they are pissed off at their spouse. It's something that can actually be tested scientifically.*
> 
> If the couple used to have a good sex life and the now "LD" spouse does not want sex, it's most likely that the "LD" is not "LD"/asexual. Instead it's most likely that they just do no longer want sex with their spouse. They are most likely angry and resentful of their spouse.


This just is not true. I've had many lab workups and tests done, and chemically/hormonally there is nothing abnormal about my lab results. There is no lab test for asexuality. Researchers still don't know what causes people to be born that way. I've consulted many doctors about the problem. They're no help at all, for me and the other 1% who are born that way.


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## 2020hindsight (Nov 3, 2015)

uhtred said:


> In the case where someone has never had an active sex life would you consider them asexual?


No, not necessarily. A man or woman may experience sexual attraction but choose to remain celibate, for various reasons. 

Women in religious orders, for instance, are supposed to sublimate their sexual energy into service and worship. That sacrifice is part of what they must do to take holy orders.

Or someone who is very shy and socially awkward may never have overcome those inhibitions to explore their sexuality. But it still exists, in the 99% who are sexual people. 

An asexual person can have plenty of sex, if someone else wants it. But their own preference would be not to have sex.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

2020hindsight said:


> This just is not true. I've had many lab workups and tests done, and chemically/hormonally there is nothing abnormal about my lab results. There is no lab test for asexuality. Researchers still don't know what causes people to be born that way. I've consulted many doctors about the problem. They're no help at all, for me and the other 1% who are born that way.



@2020hindsight

What I suggest is that the thought is not that your hormone balance or hormones themselves are in some measurable way different. Perhaps what is meant is only in reference to interaction.

The idea harkens to the arguments regarding sexual orientations, and nature versus nurture. Are people homosexual because it is biological in some way or can they be trained out of it via conversion therapy.

My wife was the victim of a brutally violent conversion therapy, so this sort of thinking strikes a chord.

A defense against attempts to retrain people into “normal” paths is to say it’s natural, the result of biology. If it’s in our genes maybe people will leave us alone about it if that’s what we want.

I think when someone says it’s hormones they mean that you were born that way and people need to accept you as you are.

Just like they should never have tried to beat the love of girls out of my wife.

People are what they are.

Be well.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Of course, my wife points out in this world of sick and twisted real Dr. Moreau’s everywhere you turn, saying something is in your genes is not safe either.

We do wish you well.


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## 2020hindsight (Nov 3, 2015)

WilliamM said:


> @2020hindsight
> 
> What I suggest is that the thought is not that your hormone balance or hormones themselves are in some measurable way different. Perhaps what is meant is only in reference to interaction.
> 
> ...


I absolutely believe that sexual orientation is inborn. There's plenty of evidence to back that up. The problem is that people aren't very aware of the fourth orientation and, if they think of it at all, consider it a treatable defect, rather than a lifelong orientation.

Heterosexual - attracted to the opposite sex
Homosexual - attracted to the same sex
Bisexual - attracted to both sexes
Asexual - attracted to neither sex


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

2020hindsight said:


> I absolutely believe that sexual orientation is inborn. There's plenty of evidence to back that up. The problem is that people aren't very aware of the fourth orientation and, if they think of it at all, consider it a treatable defect, rather than a lifelong orientation.
> 
> Heterosexual - attracted to the opposite sex
> Homosexual - attracted to the same sex
> ...


Heterosexuals, homosexuals, and bisexuals have one thing in common that asexuals don't. They have sex drives. They feel physical sexual attraction for one or both genders. Asexuals are still the odd man out.

If asexuality is hormone based, treatment would be possible. Especially as scientific knowledge and understanding advance. I imagine many asexuals would be happy to receive treatment if it meant they'd be able to have the whole human experience, including sexual desire. I also imagine others would be quite content as-is.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Ah, but there is the Dr. Moreau concept. Vivisection to make this beautiful person into something which fits someone else’s concept of normal.

That hormone treatment is no different than when the church sanctioned beating my wife nearly to death day after day for months to shatter her mind.

We ourselves recoil in horror at idea someone threatens to self medicate to obliterate their libido. Yet we suggest medication to increase the libido.

I always support psychiatric help for those who feel they need it. 

I admit I coerced my wife into therapy against her wishes. That can be viewed like forcing any other therapy on her. 

But overall I think we should be more content with accepting what is. My wife would probably have never needed treatment if they had accepted her lesbian tendencies. 

The best thing by far is to consider @2020hindsight to be perfectly normal. It does not matter what scale or method of measurement is used.


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## 2020hindsight (Nov 3, 2015)

MJJEAN said:


> Heterosexuals, homosexuals, and bisexuals have one thing in common that asexuals don't. They have sex drives. They feel physical sexual attraction for one or both genders. Asexuals are still the odd man out.


Interestingly, there is a subset of asexuals who do experience a sexual drive. I've never experienced this, but it's been described to me. They're not attracted sexually to people, but from time to time they feel a sexual urge and satisfy it in private. What they report is that they imagine nothing (no images of people or anything else), but instead just concentrate on the sensation until the urge is relieved.

Most asexuals don't experience this phenomenon, however.



MJJEAN said:


> If asexuality is hormone based, treatment would be possible. Especially as scientific knowledge and understanding advance. I imagine many asexuals would be happy to receive treatment if it meant they'd be able to have the whole human experience, including sexual desire. I also imagine others would be quite content as-is.


There is no known way to treat asexuality at this time. It's not even considered a medical problem (per the medical profession) unless it causes distress to the asexual person; for example, if he feels like a freak or is having relationship troubles because of not wanting sex.

If not made to feel like a freak for being different or stressing out over relationship problems, most asexuals seem to say they'd be quite content as is.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

It sounds so parallel to the arguments used to make it seem reasonable to hospitalize homosexuals.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

2020hindsight said:


> Interestingly, there is a subset of asexuals who do experience a sexual drive. I've never experienced this, but it's been described to me. They're not attracted sexually to people, but from time to time they feel a sexual urge and satisfy it in private. What they report is that they imagine nothing (no images of people or anything else), but instead just concentrate on the sensation until the urge is relieved.
> 
> Most asexuals don't experience this phenomenon, however.
> 
> ...


I had an asexual on another forum once tell me that the sexual urge rarely occurred, maybe once a year or so, but when it did she described it as "pressure and discomfort". She said it was distracting and annoying. She would masturbate quickly to make the feeling go away, but did not find pleasure in the act. It was kind of a sad conversation.

If an asexual wants to "fix" the problem, I hope that someday there will be a way for them. If an asexual is content "as-is", then they should certainly be left to their own devices.


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