# How can he deny affair?



## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Ok so been ready you guys post and I got a big problem. I think I am starting to hate my husband. I went from being so in love with him even after catching him in a bed with a girl half his age, oh but they has clothes on, so thats one of his points. They are were whatever just freinds. But with my own eyes I caught him in a bed with her. Alone nobody else around. But there clothes were on. Now I was so in love with him that I thout I could let it all go, now I think I starting to hate him. so let me give you some details. Married 21 years, was happy or so I thout. But after catching him with that little girl, its been bad every since. we seperate more than we are together. First after he was caught, he swore nothing happened because he loves me and they were freind. but to me you do not ever be alone in a bed with another female while you are married. Well after us being seperated he came back home, yes i was stupid because i thout it was over. But in the past 1 year ans a half it has been a nightmare. if we seperate i find out his been around her, so many hidden cell phone i cant even count them. I have actually caught them down the road from our home together. now i went stupid but it doesnt change the fact that he was with her.Lets see, oh yes he says he did no wrong he hasnt ever slept nor kisssed another girl thru our whole marriage and since I never actually caught them having sex well then i am supposed to beleive and trust him... he did nothing wrong. even when I seen stuff with my own eyes. He treats me diffrently to now. Like if I do find out stuff he says that i am jealous and controlling and I need to grow up because I am a kid. No she is a kid, she is 10 months older than our daughter. and it pi**es me off. and when he started seeing her she was pg by another boy. well he was freinds with ther thru her whole pregnacy and now the kids almoat 1 and this stuff still keeps happing.. the way I feel is that she and her kid is more important to him than me and our kids, his own daughters. But he doesnt see it like that, he blames me for the whole thing, how is it my fault, if he wantes his marriage he would do whatever he needed to do to keep her out of our lives. But he just says there nothing going on, he says she has finally left him alone, but I have heard that so many times before.. And in some of the text messages which were alot they tell eachother I love you, when I asked if he does he says no, just freinds, I asked why he says it to her he sayes he dont know. uhgggggg.. I can go on and on. and I would be happy to tell the whole god awful story but it would take a while..... you guys I have been thru hell, i dont know if I can do it anymore, so i got this feeling that my love is turning to hate. I been with him since I was 14 and i am younger than him by 5 years it just feels like Im wasting my time trying to save my marriage if he can be so low as to say just freinds and he did nothing wrong. I mean seriously can a man be in such deep denial?


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## Mike188 (Dec 29, 2009)

I've walked a mile in your shoes. My wife and her whole family (according to our marriage counselor) use denial as a defense and coping mechanism. When a normal person (or some normal people) tries to interact with a person like this it's really hard to deal with. It's hard to comprehend that people can lie so habitually.

Also google: gaslighting

Any chance the girl's baby belongs to your husband?


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

No the baby is not his, I know who the father is. Took me a little while but I at first thout it was his. But It is not his, thank god because I dont think I could deal with that as well. But you mentioned family,yes his family knows, actually it was at there home were this took place. It seemed everyone knew but me. I just do not beleive anything he says anymore. I even dont beleive him when he sayes he loves me thats how bad it is now. If he wouldnt blame me, or cut me down becuase he feels he did nothing wrong. How do I approach this, everything I do or say is wrong. How could he really think I should beleive they were just freinds. It went on to long, to much hiding stuff to much conection to her to be just freinds.


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Ok, since there isnt much detail about this I will give you guys a quick run down. He worked with her, he was her boss, I seen some text between them two wich I felt were inappriopriate, I confronted him we faught we split, One night he was having some problems at work, so when he got off work I drove out to were he was staying and caught them together.. He called the law on me to get me out of there bc he knew I would had hurt her and him for that matter,It broke my heart. Couple months later he came back home, but he was an ass, he text all the time was hateful to me, didnt care if I asked him to not text all the time while we were together, it didnt matter to him how I felt, well got informed his truck was parked in a lot, I went there watched, and I even text him ask him were you at of course he would lie to me and get mad bc I asked, Seen her drop him off, him drive home, all the while him lieing to me. I love you on my way home. When I confronted him he denied it said it was a buddy. Ok seperated again, he wanted to try once Again I go to were he was boom there she was this time in front of a nice cozy fire. But clothes on... All the while telling me he loves me. well I dont know how or why but we tried again.. Found repeated hidden cell phones, caught them by our home togther I just happened to get off work early one night. But that one he doesnt even remeber doing.. yeah right. She has even contacted me to tell me they were just freinds. What the heck, I told her you want him you can have him I am tired of it.. if you slept with him just tell me and his all yours.. Nope she denied it to.. she wanted us to be freinds. Not going to happen. In the text all they talked about was love, how I am a bad wife, how she cares so much about him. etc...... He doesnt feel I should be hurt or upset because I am accusing him and if I dont stop his goning to leave again, I told him to get her out of my life, he says there is nothing to get our becuase they were freinds now they aint. How can he show so much anger toward me I didnt do this he did.. and he just doesnt get it. He did no wrong, I am so tired of hearing that. It is wrong. And he gets mad at me when I tell him this. He is mad at me if I tell him that he did this, to get her out of my life. He sayes he has that I am running him away. Ok no its me I am giving up. hate this is what I am starting to feel hate.. Finacially he holds the key, but i dont even care anymore, I recently lost my job, but like I told him I would rather be broke on the street than listen to him say I did nothing wrong.. one more time. I cant beleive its over. And he tries to say if I would just let it go, because he was just her freind, and stop being a bit** then I would have it made. He used to treat me so good, until she came along and he doesnt think his changed. well he has toward me, our home our kids. It is discussting,And I am so lonley even when his around me, bc he doesnt show many any affection anymore, he sayes its bc I wont let this go.. How can I with all the lies I am afraid if I just take his word, like before I will be hurt once again. the denial is getting me to hate to even look at him, first she is just A KID, and how can he want to be with me and still act like such a ass, its not helping me get over it, it is making me not trust any words that come out of his mouth..


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

They are doing things. He is not being a good husband.  

What do you want to do?


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

I have no idea, I am tired of hearing the same thing from him. he did no wrong. I wanted to save my marriage now I am not so sure.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You need to start by saving yourself. He's lying to you. 

Have you read about the 180?


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

No what is 180


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Divorce busting 180 degree list - Marriage Builders® Forums

Of course, modify it for what you need. This isn't to change him, it's to change and help you get through it. He'll notice--- don't stop doing it.


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Okay thank you I am going to take a look at it right now, and thanks to anyone and everyone who replies I need all the help/advice I csn get..


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

Start with the 180
Work on yourself and unhook from your shoulders any consideration for what your H may say or think.
Watch what happens to you when you start being stronger and more confident in looking after yourself.


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Wow, i wrote all this in a hurry.. I left out alot. But im sure you all get the hint of what is going on. I have been trying to remeber the 180, it going to take alot of self control on my part.. The hurt has started to turn into angier ... But i think it is going to be worth it. It to better myself. And thats what i need. Iv been thru the whole self doubt. No no confidence. The whole roller coaster. Of emotions. But its me who has to to learn how to not let the roller coaster ride continue. I want off already.. He brought up marriage counceling? His idea not mine. I started seeing my own councler jb i couldnt deal with the turmoil of emotions on my own. Now he has came to me asking to attend marriage councling. He had no idea i was seeing one for my own self..but then again is this just another ploy, tatic to get me to take down my sheild. I will not get on the dang ride again.. Either his af is done she out no contact or i will end our marriage. Idk if he is understanding that i am feed up with it. I told him i wanted all this out of my life. I wanted her out of my life and the only way i could see to do that is to get him out of my life.. That may had been harsh or idk i second guess myself so much now a days. Uhgggg but the 180 is going to give me a step to the stepping stones.. A guide of some sort. Somthing at least.. Thanks everyone.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

If you want him to take you seriously, get divorce papers drawn up and type up a NC letter. Put them on the table and tell him to chose one.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Just Tired Of It All said:


> I mean seriously can a man be in such deep denial?


He's not in denial. You are.

You caught them in bed together, and you're allowing him to portray it as innocent. Now, you know better, but you're letting him off the hook.

Each time you catch him in a lie, or together with her, and then you let it go, you're reinforcing his behavior. So, to him, he gets a wife and mother to his children, plus some nice, young action on the side. That's every man's fantasy.

So, you have to decide whether you want to continue accepting this affair. First, stop asking your husband to admit to doing something that you both know he's doing. If you decide to accept his behavior, then work with your counselor on letting go of your anger. Let your husband do what he wants in exchange for his paycheck. If you don't want to accept his behavior, then call a lawyer and get the ball moving on a divorce.

Right now, you're saying you won't accept the affair, while your actions prove that you're accepting the affair. Men put a lot more stock in actions than words.


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Im not in denial.. I know for a fact he had an affair. I am so tired of his denial to cover his own butt or hers which ever it is. I will not put up with it anymore. I do beleive you all are right at first yes I wanted to beleive him. I wanted him to be telling me the truth.. And yep his pay check is a big helper. But his swears he isnt seeing her now. which i dont beleive, bc iv been thru it to many times before.. 

Now.. what is these papers you are talking about.. I got the divorce part. the others. 

I want to know how to make this better. either end my marriage or end his affair.

yes, i do agree that my actions has lead him to think he can get by with it. me being so stupid, in love whatever it was. It was all he needed to continue it. in and out of my life. false threats nothing i did backed it up. so your right I did nothing to end all the bull. I did more damage to myself for allowing him to mess up so many times. freinds my a**:rofl:

So I was thinking he was using his denial as a coping mecianism. Nope I am the one who was using his denial as a coping mecianism. I dont want to do it anymore. 

so im here for some adivce. What steps do I take to end this. good or bad..

I have to find away to show him I am for real about all this. It is my fault he isnt taking me seriously. 

So even thou I am not to blame for his affair.. I am resposnable as well as him for the deplestion of our marriage before the affair.. and I am at fault for the on again off again crap his pulled. If I dont show actions then why would he?  

So Im ready to hear it from all you guys. Im not defensive or ashamed or even denying it. I want the straight honest opions from all of you.. Im listing and I am ready to end it all.. so whatever you guys want to throw at me go for it.. 


:iagree:


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

I stared a new thread with this.. I am curious what others will have for advice on this.. I need a guid book.... uhgggg


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

HAve you ever seen the old movie with Matthau and Boby Morse ,"A Guide For the Married Man"? It has this exact scenario in one of the vignettes. The guy is busted in bed with his affair partner. He simply denies the woman is even there, while his wife looks right at her. The guide's message via this particular vignette is "deny, deny, deny".
I had my wife so busted it was incredible. Yet, she still denies to this day. Imagine, I had her journal describing all the activities. I had her out 112 out of 180 nights until after 2 in the morning. When drunk, shhe once described , in detail, the body pof the man she was with one night. She stopped wearing her wedding ring, and on and on.
But, she will never admit it. Thus she is my XW.
These folks are, truly , pathological. I am serious. Many are personality disordered, with BPD or NPD.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I believe in hope just tired, however I don't believe in waiting around for something good to happen either

you need to realize that based on your description, your husband is a serial cheater. Those types of people rarely change. You're talking years of hard work and therapy to make a real change. The amount of deception and lies and betrayal that he dishes out is normal for him. He's in a bubble of his own narcissism and will protect his bubble at all costs. And while I agree that you have engaged in codependent behavior, you cannot blame yourself for his continued cheating. I wouldn't blame a wife who is physically abused for not escaping sooner, their brain chemistry changes and fear takes over to the point of denying the obvious. You're likely stuck in the same sort of rut.

But fortunately you're waking up and you need to get angry now.

You need to start fighting for yourself and your children.

Find an attorney and file.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

You end your situation by determining a plan beforehand of what you want and what you're willing to accept.

First, do you want to reconcile. If your husband ends his affair, will you take him back? If you won't, then you move on to getting a lawyer and divorcing. Don't talk to your husband except for issues regarding the divorce.

If you are willing to take him back, what kind of proof do you require? I don't recommend taking his word for it. That hasn't worked in the past. So you have to verify. Put spyware on his phone. Put a keylogger on his PC. Put a voice-activated recorder (VAR) under the seat of his car. Maybe put a GPS tracker in his car. These items will help you determine if your husband has actually ended his affair, or simply gone underground.

Along with this line of reasoning, are you willing to accept any backsliding? If he writes and sends a no-contact letter to the other woman, and then calls her on her birthday, will you kick him out? Must he end the affair immediately, or will you allow him to wind it down gradually? Most people will advise no contact starting immediately and any failures should result in divorce, but you have to be the one to formulate and live with your plan.

So sit down and write a flow chart of what you want and what you're willing to accept. Write down the possible scenarios of your husband's behavior and how you want to react to them. That will help you avoid mistakes in the heat of the moment.

And, I suggest doing two things to help prove to him and yourself that you're serious. First, get a job. If you divorce, you will need an income to support yourself. Second, implement the 180 and tell your husband that you're no longer going to support him emotionally or sexually while he's having an affair. You can tell him that you're willing to reconcile after the affair is over. But, you should get yourself ready to move on without him.

Good luck.


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> I believe in hope just tired, however I don't believe in waiting around for something good to happen either
> 
> you need to realize that based on your description, your husband is a serial cheater. Those types of people rarely change. You're talking years of hard work and therapy to make a real change. The amount of deception and lies and betrayal that he dishes out is normal for him. He's in a bubble of his own narcissism and will protect his bubble at all costs. And while I agree that you have engaged in codependent behavior, you cannot blame yourself for his continued cheating. I wouldn't blame a wife who is physically abused for not escaping sooner, their brain chemistry changes and fear takes over to the point of denying the obvious. You're likely stuck in the same sort of rut.
> 
> ...


 I agree with you for the most part.. I am not denying his affair. I have been allowing it to continue bc i didnt not following thru with my threats. But as far as I know this is his only affair. And let me tell you it really changed him, his personality is so diffrent now. Its amazing of he did a 180 himself. I do want to implement the 180 sytem for myself, but I am unsure of how to control my emotions. Another thing, his not gone at the moment his living with me and our children. But thats not the first time its happened either, in and out.... I have not caught him contacting her this time, his been home for a little over a month. And I just cant let it go what he has done before. My words that I so often throw out at him is." its not like you havnt done it before, or its not like this is the first time, Iv been thru this before". Its just spews out of my mouth like venom. I dont beleive a word he says anymore. Yes you guys are right, I do need a job, I just lost mine right before he came home, company shut down unexpectedly, like in a matter of 2 days I had no preparing myself finacially, he was just helping keep all the bills paid, then he moved back home. I was shocked that he did that. BC I was trying to pull away, but the longer his here the more nastyness spews from me. So I am activly seeking employment. I have to learn how to control my emotions and keep those nasty little triggers at bay. so for him to be a serial cheater, if that means with several women, I only now of the one and this is more like an ongoing affair. So what is this no contact contract. Basically I am in desperate need of guidance, how to handle this, are we going to try.. I GUESS SO... am I sure.. not even in the least. For gosh sakes Iv looked at him and said.. I am so quickly falling out of love with you, I think its turning into hate.. I would had never in a million years said that to him before.. This is the first time ever. In 21+ time together. Somthing in me is changing, and he picked up on it quickly, he remarked to me how I was changing, well duhhh, iv had enough. I said I want her out of my life, and it seems the only way to make that happen is to get you out of my life...  Does it hurt me afterward to have talked to him like that, yes it does. But I seem to be getting worse at the way I lash out at him... I get so ....... and when I leave thearpy, and I come home and see him... well I get upset allover again.. its like I relive it in thearpy then I see him and I just loose it, I think his the one who hurt me, I trusted him, he took a big part of my life, for what? I look at him and said I want all my years back I invested into our marriage.... Give me my years back I wasted on you... You gave my life to somone else, I wasted to many years on you, and all you did was destroy what we built together, you destroyed everything I held dear to my heart.. He just looks at me and says I didnt do anything wrong, she was just a freind, I love you to much for that. my heart is always with you.... UHGGGGGGGGGGGGG :scratchhead:


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Bpd,,,, yes yes yes,, he was diognosed with this.... but could that really contribute to his denial?????


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Just Tired Of It All said:


> Bpd,,,, yes yes yes,, he was diognosed with this.... but could that really contribute to his denial?????



Really? Of course, read up on it- nothing is ever their fault and they don't admit being wrong
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Well his was diognosed with BPD.. about maybe 7 months ago, he did the thearpy to. The started him on medication, probley on it about 3 months now. OCD and BPD is his offical diagnoses.. And now they are recomending he go to a phycologist. Which he is going to do. I thout BPD had to do with anger issues, loosing his temper of over tiny little things that wouldnt matter a hill of beans to other people... But your saying that BPD, they never admit being wrong, intersting thanks I am going to read up on it. If anyone else gots info please please send it my way.. I may have actually got a lead into why he is the way he is.. Its frustrating trying to talk to somone who one, denies everything, even tries to conveince you, you didnt see that, two gets angry so often over really nothing, and his OCD.. nope you cant snoop into his stuff, his got it so lined up that if one thing is moved his red flag goes up.. I be like how in the world did he know.. I tested this one time. I didnt snoop. I simply opened his wallet pulled out one of his cards and carefully tried to put it back the exact same way he had it.. soons he grabed it opened it up.. "WHO THE HECK HAS BEEN IN MY WALLET." I said uhmmm no one that I know of, he said bull, its been touched. WOW, his got his stuff in perfect order that I couldnt even slide it out and put it back in the exact same way as he had it, no matter how hard I tried.. But now Im wordering how much this contributes to all this affair stuff. And with his OCD. he doesnt like to be touched by strangers, no hand shakes nothing, me he will or his kids, but thats it. His threw that at me to. saying you know I couldnt have sex with her thats sick, I dont want no one to touch me. That part he says about the no touching is true, his been like that since Iv known him. If, we go to stores he will not touch a cart, he has little hand wipes to disinfect things just in case he has to in public.. No door knobs either in public.. unless he has somthing to use to open it with.. hand sanitizar is always on him.. wierd but Iv gotten so used to it I dont even pay any attention to it anymore... other people do, but it doesnt even register in my head he is doing it at the moment, guess once you see somone do somthing so much it just becomes the norm in or daily life. But to me there is some way he got over his OCD with her.. Maybe he (sanitized her) and the (seran wrapped her).... just joking well MAYBE..


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

WOW writing this, and BPD is being disscued on the Dr.OZ show Im going to go watch it. Talk about something trying to tell me somthin and o yes he has adhd aswell, or so the doctors say....


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Research BPD. Infidelity is rampant among those folks. And, they lie, rage, abuse and drive one nuts. I'd say that at least 50% of the folks that cheat are disordered, if not more. One would have to be, to carry on with all the lies and deception as long as they do and without showing signs of guilt.
Sure, maybe a somewhat normal person could have a shot affair or a ONS. But, really, think about it. Could a normal person do this over the long haul and still function. The guilt would eat him or her up.


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

okay thanks you guys for the info... I may have finally found some sort of answer to the one of the big issues as to how he could deny deny deny.... Another question is, if he can have such deep denial bc of his disorders.. then how do you recover from the affair.. if a person is in denial of no wrong doing, no remorse than they have no reason to 1) either end the affair or 2) not begin another 3) have any real reason to save there marriage because to them they did no wrong? How do I cope or make him understand the damage that this is causing, he wants him marriage but he did nothing to damage it... How do I make him see the reality of it all? I have alot of studying to do.. And some break thru info to discusse with my councler. And he does want to go to marriage councling, of course his reasons isnt because he did anything wrong with the affair, his reasons is because they will help me to stop accusing him...:scratchhead: Any suggestions on how to handle all this?


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Yes, run the hell away from this guy. Personality disorders are , forthe most part, intractable. There is no cure and you will die early living with this type of person. DIVORCE the guy. If he has BPD, you cannot have a decent life. Sad part is these folks did not ask for the disorder and it is often the result of childhood abuse. Regardless, RUN.


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Really, there is nothing that can help him? No medication, not thearpy, not a phycologist, nothing. Obviously he has had it our whole marriage, it just been diagnosed after his affair begin, he went to therpist on his own bc he just simply told me he felt somthing was wrong with him. And his diognoses was BPD, and OCD. I really not sure about his adhd tho, I think its more BPD and OCD than the ADHD.. his denial is distructive thats for sure, but he must have had this our whole marriage and just recently put a name to what is wrong with him. And he recently started medication, which as he says is a trial and error thing until his docs gets the right combo of what is right for him. and of course his going to see a phscologist now too... But your advice is just to walk away, there is no hope at all for him.. I finally felt like I may had been given a little hope, learning that his BPD was a big contribitor to all this, now I learn there is now hope.... I dont know rather to help, work, save or run with all this..... I coped with it for years not even knowing what was wrong with him, it was his, and using this as he puts it,, "freindship" that caused him to seek help.... he just simply said somthing wasnt right.. IDK.. this is alot to take in... I NEED HELP!!!!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Ok I just read ur thread. This is one of those cases of 'do you believe me or your lying eyes? U caught th. Tem IN BED together, around ur house being sneaky, at home in front of a fire and he has sveral secret cell fones. U are asking if he's in denial or why is he in denial when the fact is YOU are in denial. U already know what the score is...he's cheating on u and thinks if he tells u he is not...u will believe him. Its called gaslighting. This is actaually pretty sick what he's doing to you but even more crazy is the fact you think u. Can make him stop or. Admit the truth when u already know the. Truth. U said yourself u issue empty threats all the time and don't follow thru with them. That there is ur problem. He knows he can walk all over u and u will still be there...waiting for more. He has no respect for u because u don't respect yourself. Time to take a stand and tell him u won't be lied to and u won't live in an open marriage. The longer you cling to him the worse off for you. U can't change him or 'make' him see anything. That's all on him. U are in for a long hard road if you keep tolerating this. Question: what do u like about him? Do u likke the way he treats u?? Do u feel he respects you? Do u feel he is honest with you? Committed to you? Loves you? Would u treat someone u love the way he's treating u? If u had a friend that acted like him...would u want to be friends w them? What do u like about him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh and he is the one who needs help. But u will too as long as u knowingly stay sucked into this vacuum.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Oh I have seeked help in coping with it all, and gaslighting, yep Im reseaching that aswell. But he doesnt deny being with her, he doesnt deny talking with her, he doesnt deny seeing her. He denies the affair part, the just freind crap. No I not beleiving it. What do I love about him. Lets see, never cheated on me for 20 of our years, treated me so well we were so super close to one another, he supported me and his kids never once failed to provide for his family. We were inseperable. NOW.. it diffent, its changed and I do lash out alot, and its because he denies his affair. he plays the just freinds card way to much.. And as long as he continues to play that card I will continue to lash out at him. It just seems to demorize me, Like I am an idiot, No he doesnt think I believe him, I alway told him he was lying to me about just freinds. But then again that is where I messed up, allowing him in my life with his lie in tow.. So yes I see my wrong doing, but If his BPD is what is contributing to his denial this somthing else that needs to be addressed.


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

I am going to repeat this one more time... I AM NOT DENYING ANYTHING.... I AM NOT DENYING HIS AFFAIR.. I AM NOT DENYING I SEEN WHAT I HAVE SEEN.. I am trying to figure out why he is in such deep denial. He knows I refuses to say or except they were just freinds. I will never say those words because its a load of crap. But what is preventing us from making any proggresse is his denial. Idk know if it is from his BPD or if he doesnt want to feel like and a** or less than the guy I feel in love with or he just doesnt want to admit he was wrong.. I have no idea what it is.. But I know that is what is keeping me held back.... I discuss it I am in councling and she has tried to say that he denies it because he doesnt want to feel any pain or guilt for what he did, so to him it is real that he did no wrong that they were just freinds. I dont beleive that one either........ I am stuck in limbo here.. which way to I go.. can we go back to before pre affair.. heck no.. its happened.. does he want it to be same pre affair,, heck yes.. is it possible heck no.. Not from my stand point. But how do you know really wich way to go?


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Yes, run the hell away from this guy. Personality disorders are , forthe most part, intractable. There is no cure and you will die early living with this type of person. DIVORCE the guy. If he has BPD, you cannot have a decent life. Sad part is these folks did not ask for the disorder and it is often the result of childhood abuse. Regardless, RUN.



I beg to differ, I am BPD and although I was horrible for many years, I have changed. Still a work in progress but, not all BPD'ers are lost causes.
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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> Really? Of course, read up on it- nothing is ever their fault and they don't admit being wrong
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Don't say ever. I admitted when I was wrong.
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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

pidge70 said:


> I beg to differ, I am BPD and although I was horrible for many years, I have changed. Still a work in progress but, not all BPD'ers are lost causes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

pidge70 said:


> i beg to differ, i am bpd and although i was horrible for many years, i have changed. Still a work in progress but, not all bpd'ers are lost causes.
> _posted via mobile device_





pidge70 said:


> don't say ever. I admitted when i was wrong.
> _posted via mobile device_


 thank you.. All i am trying to do is find info about this bpd.... And the denial of his affair..{by him} i know it happened.. But it seems like if i dont bash him for his disorder, which i had no clue could had been a factor to his denial.. Then i have a {she is in denial} bashing club going on....


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

He admits he was wrong being her freind... But the actual affair he denies.... It is frustrating...


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

He most likely will continue to deny. Such is the nature of the beast.
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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Pidge with all due respect you owned when u cheated and didn't continue gaslighting ur husband after the fact. Also...u took steps to get help for urself. This guy has done none of those things. People only change when they want to themselves. People only get help when they want to themselves. People only cop to bad behavior n and affair when they want to. That is not this guy. Justtired...u are waiting for him to admit something he has no interest in doing. So ur choicesare to accept that he won't even be man enough to tell u the truth or decide u deserve better than that.
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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

A wise person once told me: anytime ur waiting for someone to change or do something u want...u are wasting ur time.
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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Pidge with all due respect you owned when u cheated and didn't continue gaslighting ur husband after the fact. Also...u took steps to get help for urself. This guy has done none of those things. People only change when they want to themselves. People only get help when they want to themselves. People only cop to bad behavior n and affair when they want to. That is not this guy. Justtired...u are waiting for him to admit something he has no interest in doing. So ur choicesare to accept that he won't even be man enough to tell u the truth or decide u deserve better than that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Which is why I stated he will most likely continue to deny. Not all BPD'ers have enough self awareness to "cop" to anything they have done wrong.
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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Ok jellybeans.. So he changed after 20 years to become somone i just dont like to much right now,,, i loved him for 20 years he wasnt anything like he is now.. Yes he had issuse that we are now learning the name for them. But since he had an affair which he aditmitly denies, except for the freindship being wrong.. Which i know that it was more than that.. And he is seeking help, and asking for mc.... Then there is no real point to me trying to figure out why he denies the real truth beyond is freinship crap... Since he changed from my loving husband after 20 years to a lying denial of a man, that there is no possible way for us to get thru this.. That the only option is divorce..


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Who diagnosed him with BPD? You should have noticed signs years ago.
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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

He is seeing a thearpist and he was diagnosed by there phycologist.. Now they have reffered him to a phcycologist that he will be seeing on a reguar basis. And there were signs i just didnt realy know why, i didnt know what bpd was.. They have started him on medications.. Wich is still being adjusted to find the correct dosage/combo..... Honestly i didnt know denial was associated with bpd, his outburts anger, being right all the time.. And just the little things that could morph him in a second made since but denial. I would have never associated that with bpd.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Just Tired Of It All said:


> He is seeing a thearpist and he was diagnosed by there phycologist.. Now they have reffered him to a phcycologist that he will be seeing on a reguar basis. And there were signs i just didnt realy know why, i didnt know what bpd was.. They have started him on medications.. Wich is still being adjusted to find the correct dosage/combo..... Honestly i didnt know denial was associated with bpd, his outburts anger, being right all the time.. And just the little things that could morph him in a second made since but denial. I would have never associated that with bpd.


There is a victim mentality that comes with BPD as well. They can spin things very well to make you seem like the bad guy when they do something wrong.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

As I've stated on a different thread of yours, meds will not completely help with his BPD. He needs behavior modification and cognitive therapy for there to be any chance.
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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

joe kidd said:


> there is a victim mentality that comes with bpd as well. They can spin things very well to make you seem like the bad guy when they do something wrong.


yes yes yes.. He does this alot... And he seems to beleive or he is a good faker,, that it was my fault or i did this or that and i of course deny deny deny then myself.....


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

pidge70 said:


> as i've stated on a different thread of yours, meds will not completely help with his bpd. He needs behavior modification and cognitive therapy for there to be any chance.
> _posted via mobile device_


how does he go about getting this, he is seeing a therapist, and starting his phycologist visitst regularly, and he wants to begin mc.. He wants help, he started all his thearpy on his own while we were seperated, so he seems to want help, but how does he go about getting the other help you have suggested?


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

I think everyone realizes that you know he's had an affair. What I at least, don't see is what his denial has to do with anything. You have the information on what he did, now you have to decide if it's something you can live/deal with going forward. 

Seriously, what would change for you if he woke up tomorrow morning and said, "yep Tired, I boffed a kid our daughter's age, I was doing it the whole time." Would that make it all better? Would that make it okay to leave? What would it really, truly do when you already DO know what happened?

It sounds like there's a whole dang trench drawn in the sand at this point. You're not going to stop digging for the confession and he's not going to give it up at this point out of sheer determination and pride, if nothing else. If you're going to move forward-in any direction- I think you're going to have to do it based on the knowledge you HAVE, not the knowledge you WANT.
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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

You have a point, it comes down to my pride i guess.. And really if he only feels it was wrong to be her freind, then really what is he saying he did wrong..... Im sorry honey i was her freind.... It just sets it up for,,, im sorry honey i was wrong to be her freind again... Not... Looked i screwed up i cheated i feel like an ass,,,, im sorry,,, remorse somthing... Other than i was only wrong for being her freind.. So really to me if he feels he did no wrong then why wouldnt he do it again.. People who done no wrong has no real reason not to do it again. Now if they can actually admit that it went to far and stop the denial.. Then they can feel the remorse, and then maybe the would have a reason not to do it again.... Its sounds strang i know.. But it just seems to me that if he doesnt think that nothing was wrong, or his denial keeps him from having to face reality then why not do it again...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh he knows it was wrong which is why he keeps saying "she's just a friend"--classic cheater line by the way. But I can understtand why you want the admission. Will it make everything better? No. Will it undo his cheating? No. But it will at least make u feel he respects u enough to tell u the truth. It doesn't sound like he's willing todo that. And that's where u have to decide if u want to give it a shot while he continues to deny...or if u deserve or want more than that. Question: does he have a habit of rug-sweeping major issues and your concerns? Does he minimize your concerns habitually? Or is it a new thing?
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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

before the affair he may had at times side stepped some things. but to be this bold, and to try and convience me of somthing so thats there is abo****ly no other way to put it, his affair.. to try to convince me that just freinds.. is a new thing.. maybe if I was going along with it then ok he would have a reason to try to stick to the story,, but I am putting it right in his face... there is no color to it.. its black and white.... I tell him no you cheated, you had an affair.. if you didnt sleep with her then why are you destroying your family for just a freind.. YOU WOULDNT BE.. but yet he sticks to it... swears on everything that he didnt not sleep or kiss her nothing,,, just freinds. Yes it is pride, I am not an idiot,, nor will I allow him to think he pulled a good one on me.... I put it right in his face,, IT IS MORE THAN FREINDS.. but nothing and i mean nothing makes him flinch.. he will not for nothing admit more than freinds. Althou he sees his freindship with her as wrong, but other than that he considers nothing he did as wrong.. And i am not an idiot.. nor was I born yesterday, as much help as we receive as much as we try to get past this, as much effort as he or me put into this.. for me it will never be over as long as he feels he did nothing wrong, it is an affair.... friends my a**


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Ok well even if he does not admit it...he's basically telling you that him being in bed w her is not wrong. Nor was it wrong when she was there w the fireplace...nor was it wrong when u caught them sneaking around together around the corner of ur house.
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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

thats my point... it was wrong.. and if you read my other post to you just now you will get a little more to the story...but really what is he admiting to being wrong.. he will say, yes I shouldnt had her in there.. it was wrong nothing happened.. I shouldnt had been in that postion you found me in, nothing happened.. She needs a freind and blah blah blah.. bull crap.. 

O and she even contacted me before.. she denied anything beyond freindship to.. she wanted to become my freind and get to know me because hubby was so crazy about me that I ment the world to him and she wanted to put all this behind us and she could get to know me too.. becomes freinds with me aswell.. she said I know you two will be together until the day yall die.. he thinks the world about you, he loves you to death.. and this is hurting him with you not beleiving we are just freinds. I would love to meet you and discusse this his a great guy with a big heart and he doesnt want to loose you, you are his world.. can we meet and maybe becomes freinds too.. uhmmmm no way in heck.. I told her to stay the heck away from me and my family.. and if she thout so much of him and he wanted me so much.. then she would leave him alone to..... I dont even know if this was the right move on my part either.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You were right to say that to her. She is totally out of line and has a problem with boundaries. Her wanting to meet with u and blah blah blah aafter u found her in bed with your husband says everything about her that u need to know. She's prob one of those women with low self esteem who gets. Off on married guys flirtng with her or she is into married giys cause she thinks it one ups her vs. U. What a hag. Is she married or with a boyfriend? Shhe has no right to contact. U. Any sane person would bow out quietly and never speak to ur husband again so as not to cause further problems.
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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Thank you Jellybens, Idk what is the right move or the wrong move 99% of the time.. I was thinking well should I had meet with her and heard her out... But then I couldnt stand to be 2 feet near her.. and to hear her deny, well then she is just as loopy as he is.. And she was engaged to her baby daddy, but I busted her out to him to now they are not together... but his not even around his over seas fighting for our freendome ....... but he knows.. he wanted proof so once I got ahold of a hidden cell I forwarded him all the text.. lets says he wasnt a happy camper..


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