# Considering leaving after 6 years.



## Clarity123 (Sep 2, 2015)

My husband and I have been together for 7 years altogether. Tomorrow we will celebrate our 6 year wedding anniversary and while I should be celebrating another year with him, I just feel indifferent and somewhat confused.

My husband has had issues with anger that have only seemed to be slowly getting worse. I recall the first incident being back in our first year of marriage, we were expecting our first daughter and in the last months of my pregnancy he would start to become easily agitated. It started off that he would throw things. I recall one of his episodes, we were going through baby shower gifts and he became stressed out going through them. He said something pretty hurtful towards me, I got upset and had to leave the house.

Over the course of 5 years he has resorted to throwing things (not at me), calling me names, threatening to hurt me, threatening divorce, threatening to take our children away from me and saying things he knows will hurt me. This past year has been the worst for us. I've left him a handful of times, claiming each time that I was done.. but I would come back hoping for a better outcome. 

Most of his bursts of rage come out of the blue. Something that wouldn't bother him one day could completely set him off the next. It drives me nuts!

This last incident was just a few weeks ago. I was joking with him, he took it the wrong way and blew up. It ended up with me packing up some of my things, him cursing at me and making me feel guilty for leaving.. saying, "You're a** is leaving over the fact that you can't shut your f**king mouth". He told me to get all of my things out by the next day or my sh*t is going to be out in the front yard and that he hoped I didn't come back. Calling me a "crazy b*tch" among mumbling other things under his breath. 

I thought I finally had the strength to leave him. He even called me later that same day to tell me my puppy had an accident in our girls play room, wanting to know if I put her in there. Then he proceeded to get upset with me for walking out over something I did. He wouldn't even let me finish what I had to say before mumbling something else and hanging up on me. A few hours later, he called again.. still being defensive. I basically talked some sense into him and suggested marriage counseling, to which he reluctantly agreed to do.

At this point, he has admitted that all of his outbursts have nothing to do with me, that I have done nothing wrong. He said he's just an angry and bitter person. He's trying to find acceptance in all of the wrong people. Work is stressing him out. He said he wants to get personal counseling, that we don't need marriage counseling. However, we can't afford counseling at this point in time. So, who knows when he will seek out the help he obviously needs.

Not to mention, he's spending money on things that aren't a necessity. He knows that he needs professional help but isn't making it a priority to get things set up. 


I will admit, I've been unhappy in my marriage for a while now. Forcing a smile on my face when deep inside my heart is crying. I can't even look at him the same way anymore. My heart literally hurts.

Even though he's claiming he will work on things, I feel like I have given up. I don't know if this is fair to him or not. I am at a loss as far as what to do. I have two beautiful little girls to think about. 

I often think about the consequences that would come with a divorce. I think about how he would handle it, my two beautiful girls and our families who would probably disapprove. That and I worry how I would be able to stand on my own two feet.

There are so many questions running through my head. What should I do? How do I change the way that I am feeling? What's my best option?


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Don't let family disapproval keep you in an unhappy and abusive marriage. At the end of the day, you are the one who has to live with this man. 

You are also, showing your daughter a really bad example of what a happy home should be like. They will think this kind of environment is normal. 

Your husband has some sort of metal issues going on. He needs help if he thinks its ok to take out his unhappiness on you. You know that you have had enough. It's only going to get worst. What happens when something hits you or one of the girls. So now you to have make preparation to take action.

I would advice you get a recording device and also, video to record everything when he gets into a rage. That way you can get evidence of his inability to care for the kids. Unless, you want to give him the girls.

Keep to a lawyer to know your rights. Good luck. Take care and be careful.


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## Clarity123 (Sep 2, 2015)

brooklynAnn said:


> Don't let family disapproval keep you in an unhappy and abusive marriage. At the end of the day, you are the one who has to live with this man.
> 
> You are also, showing your daughter a really bad example of what a happy home should be like. They will think this kind of environment is normal.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your response!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Clarity123 said:


> At this point, he has admitted that all of his outbursts have nothing to do with me, that I have done nothing wrong. He said he's just an angry and bitter person. He's trying to find acceptance in all of the wrong people. Work is stressing him out. He said he wants to get personal counseling, that we don't need marriage counseling.


Then tell him "Great! I'm glad you're finally seeing the problem. Look me up in a couple years after you've been through two years of therapy and we'll see if there's anything left to save."

If you stay with him, HE WILL NEVER CHANGE.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Clarity123,

Checking in on you. How are you doing? 

If you two cannot afford counseling, you might want to search the internet for sites that help people with anger management and domestic abuse and violence.

Also look in places like Amazon.com for books on these topics.

If you are afraid your internet usage might be monitored call the national domestic violence hotline at 

Also look for organizations in your area that offer counseling for domestic abuse/violence. They usually offer sliding scale counseling for both the victims and those like your husbands. For example they often offer anger management classes and counseling.


If you call the national help line, they can help you find what's available in your area. Here's the number to the national help line....1 800 799 7233.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you're in the US, go to unitedway.org; they will help you find therapy either free or very reduced.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Clarity, see if any of these can help you.
https://www.whengeorgiasmiled.org/centers-support-groups-organizations/

w.drphil.com/articles/article/686 and the related articles. 

Hope these give you some idea of what to do and how to get some help.

Take care. Ann


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## Clarity123 (Sep 2, 2015)

I'm still with him.. 

The plan as of right now is that because things are so "tight" financially for us, he's waiting until next month to get set up with a therapist. The reason why is because that's when he will receive a bonus from his work.

I actually told him yesterday that I wanted to leave, whether or not I should have is questionable. His initial response was that he thought I was cheating on him. Then, he basically said he couldn't believe I would give up on our marriage so easily, that he stuck by my side when things were rough for me. Last year, I had to be hospitalized for depression and anxiety. It took me months to get myself right. He was actually pretty supportive, aside from the couple of times where he lost his patience with me. He's apologized for his behavior and asked me not to give up on him. 

I know part of it is because I still love him and want to see him succeed. It's also because I can be too good of a person and possibly naive. I don't know if getting professional help will lead him in the right direction. I know he'll probably continue to struggle and have episodes. I don't know if I should continue to just allow them to happen. Should I just put my foot down and walk out the next time it happens? I know for sure if I did that he will tell me exactly what he told me yesterday.


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## Clarity123 (Sep 2, 2015)

I'm hoping to continue posting updates on here, mostly for support.


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## Clarity123 (Sep 2, 2015)

I don't think he fully comprehends the damage he has done to me. I've told him several things he has said to me out of anger. He'll look at me like I'm crazy, tell me that he never said that or I'm just making it up. 

I don't know how much he will benefit from getting professional help. This is the last resort.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Counseling is not just about him. You need counseling too. Whether the two of you work through this or not, you need counseling to get stronger and to learn how to handle things better. The suggestions I gave you above still hold ... for you, even if he gets counseling.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Counseling is for YOU, not him. YOU need it to learn to love and respect yourself. Did you look up the links we've posted so you can get free or reduced therapy?


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## Clarity123 (Sep 2, 2015)

I believe that there is a local counseling center in my area that goes by a sliding fee scale. I will look into it.

I live right by the public library. So, I can always pick up a couple of books about domestic abuse. 

This is not the first time I sought professional help. I'm currently seeing my psychiatrist every 3 months now. I was seeing a wonderful therapist last year but I could no longer afford to see her. I never really spoke of my husband's behavior during my sessions with her. However, I did attend a Partial Hospitalization Program at my hospital every week day, for a couple of months. It was a group setting and the support there was absolutely amazing! I recall one of the therapists giving me some information on domestic abuse. I just now realized that I never read it. I'm sure if I dig around in my house I could find it. 


Should I let my husband know that I want to seek out help, too? As of right now, he thinks we're starting with a clean slate. He wants me to forgive and forget. 

I have moments where I know that my marriage is unhealthy, that the way my husband talks to me sometimes is absolutely not normal. I just have a hard time being in the mindset that I'm a victim of domestic abuse.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Clarity123 said:


> Should I let my husband know that I want to seek out help, too? As of right now, he thinks we're starting with a clean slate. He wants me to forgive and forget.


Of course he does. That way, it's always all your fault.
No, don't tell him anything. He doesn't deserve to know and he will do whatever he can to stop you.

This is the book you need to get:
Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft | 9780425191651 | Paperback | Barnes & Noble


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Psychological abuse can look like:

Humiliating or embarrassing you.
Constant put-downs.
Hypercriticism.
Refusing to communicate.
Ignoring or excluding you.
Extramarital affairs.
Provocative behavior with opposite sex.
Use of sarcasm and unpleasant tone of voice.
Unreasonable jealousy.
Extreme moodiness.
Mean jokes or constantly making fun of you.
Saying “I love you but…”
Saying things like “If you don’t _____, I will_____.”
Domination and control.
Withdrawal of affection.
Guilt trips.
Making everything your fault.
Isolating you from friends and family.
Using money to control.
Constant calling or texting when you are not with him/her.
Threatening to commit suicide if you leave.
It is important to remember is that it is absolutely not your fault. Abusers are expert manipulators with a knack for getting you to believe that the way you are being treated is your fault. These people know that everyone has insecurities, and they use those insecurities against you.

Abusers can convince you that you do not deserve better treatment or that they are treating you this way to “help” you. Some abusers even act quite charming and nice in public so that others have a good impression of them. In private is a different story, which is also quite baffling.
21 Warning Signs of an Emotionally Abusive Relationship | World of Psychology


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## Clarity123 (Sep 2, 2015)

turnera said:


> Clarity123 said:
> 
> 
> > Should I let my husband know that I want to seek out help, too? As of right now, he thinks we're starting with a clean slate. He wants me to forgive and forget.
> ...



I've been reading reviews on the book you've suggested and I'm very interested in reading it. It isn't available at my library though and my husband is responsible for the finances. So, if I purchased the book, he would know for sure. 

Is there any way I can read it for free over the Internet?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

try one of these links
https://www.google.com/search?sourc...o that&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j69i60j0l4.10620j0j7


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## Clarity123 (Sep 2, 2015)

turnera said:


> try one of these links
> https://www.google.com/search?sourc...o that&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j69i60j0l4.10620j0j7


Found it! Thank you so much!


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## GhoulyGirl (Sep 14, 2015)

Clarity, your story sounds a lot like mine.

Married six years also, but no kids (thank god). My husband has anger issues and when he gets upset (which seem to come out of the blue), he barks at me, or gives me the silent treatment. Or yells and then gives me the silent treatment (withholding) and doesn't talk to me for several hours until he magically decides it never happened (he usually doesn't apologize). He's never physical, but a couple times he has thrown soft objects (like a shirt) not at me, but on the bed or something. What is most hurtful is when he gets mad, he says really hurtful things. He "goes for the jugular" as they say. 

Example: we saw a movie I wanted to see about a teen girl and her mom, and as we were walking out he was saying what bad parents the mom in this movie was in the 1970s. I replied that I didn't think today's helicopter parents were doing their kids any favors either and that there needs to be something in between. Our argument escalated and he said, "It's a good thing we didn't have kids." Earlier in the day, we had been talking about if life had gone differently and we had a child. It's not anything we're sad about, it's not a priority to me (actually I'm glad now). But it was a way of him "****ting" on my point of view (sorry for the language, I can't think of another word that quite describes that). 

I know if a friend told me about this, I'd tell her to leave, but I can't seem to feel "right" about leaving. I did leave a live-in relationship a decade ago, so this isn't totally new, but I feel so guilty that I'm betraying my husband (I know how dumb that is). We never communicate about our relationship. I have IBS and a bad back, which are probably stress-related. He can be a nice, generous man, but I think he's depressed (he's admitted as much) but refused to see a therapist or try meds (or do anything). I know I need to detach and leave. I actually would love to live alone (I'm just happier on my own). But I guess my support system isn't strong enough because I just can't seem to make the decision to tell him how I feel (in large part because I'm scared of his reaction, not violence, but he'll probably explode and say terrible things. Our episodes happen about once a week (I've started keeping a spread sheet documenting them), and in between, it's like I have amnesia or I'm in denial and we kind of function and I don't know how to actually leave. 

He's very dependent on me, while I pretty independent. He constantly wants to do things, while I want to stay home and chill after work. But it isn't like he says, "you know what would be fun? Going to X." He just goes right to anger and bitterness that I never want to do anything (which is not really true). On weekends, he sits around and watches TV, while I exercise, run errands and do my work or hobbies. I'm so tired of this incidents where he explodes at me, and I feel confused and ambushed for a transgression I didn't realize I was making (his has his dumb rules). Another example: last weekend my brother, who had a TBI 5 years ago, and is on disability called because he found out some disturbing news about one of his few friends (he cant' work and suffer anxiety and depression). We had dinner reservations a couple blocks away. 20 minutes before dinner, I called my bro and checked in on him. Ten minutes later, husband stormed out the condo saying he was going to get a bottle of wine and go to dinner "if I wanted to join him." 

I don't understand why I can see that I'm not happy, see the patterns of abuse, be sick of it, but still be unable to leave.



I'm really over it. I'm 45, have a career (although he makes most of our income)


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## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

Forgive and forget - my husband said clean slate too. The first argument we had after that and everything came back


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## Clarity123 (Sep 2, 2015)

Bee29 said:


> Forgive and forget - my husband said clean slate too. The first argument we had after that and everything came back


In his mind, I have no reason to really be as hurt as I am. Like, we should only talk about our current issues once and never speak of them again. I'm in constant turmoil.

Part of me wants to run out the door now and hold onto the "what if" question that will always linger in my head. Another part wants to stick it out and see if he will stay true to his word.


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## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

Same here. He says I'm being crazy and everything is in my head. But other people are noticing. His cousin's girlfriend works at the local domestic abuse shelter and one day out of the blue was like, you know I work at the shelter right? We had never even talked about it before, so for her to bring it up without me mentioning anything was kind of an eye opener.


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## Clarity123 (Sep 2, 2015)

Bee29 said:


> Same here. He says I'm being crazy and everything is in my head. But other people are noticing. His cousin's girlfriend works at the local domestic abuse shelter and one day out of the blue was like, you know I work at the shelter right? We had never even talked about it before, so for her to bring it up without me mentioning anything was kind of an eye opener.


This forum has been an eye opener for me. 

I am not getting the appropriate support from either of our families. I haven't really told anybody about his abuse. He doesn't think I should share our business with others.


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## Clarity123 (Sep 2, 2015)

If I say anything about how I feel about his behavior that doesn't sit well with him, he'll say that I'm being brainwashed by "X" (my mom, his mom, my aunt, the hospital program, etc.) As if I don't have a mind of my own and I need to have others think for me.


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## Clarity123 (Sep 2, 2015)

GhoulyGirl said:


> Clarity, your story sounds a lot like mine.
> 
> Married six years also, but no kids (thank god). My husband has anger issues and when he gets upset (which seem to come out of the blue), he barks at me, or gives me the silent treatment. Or yells and then gives me the silent treatment (withholding) and doesn't talk to me for several hours until he magically decides it never happened (he usually doesn't apologize). He's never physical, but a couple times he has thrown soft objects (like a shirt) not at me, but on the bed or something. What is most hurtful is when he gets mad, he says really hurtful things. He "goes for the jugular" as they say.
> 
> ...


A very similar situation! I'm sorry to hear you're struggling as well. While the circumstances are terrible, I'm comforted by the fact that I am not the only one experiencing these trials.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How's the book reading going?


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## Clarity123 (Sep 2, 2015)

turnera said:


> How's the book reading going?


I've read part one and had to take a break. 

I'm starting to see that his personality falls into a couple of "types" of abusive men, Mr. Sensitive and The Victim. That he tends to twist things around and/or he will minimize or deny the abuse. 

The minimizing or denying the abuse was probably the hardest part to read thus far. This is exactly what he does every time. I will be visibly upset hours after an episode of his and he will say, "What's wrong with you?" I will tell him what was said or done. He'll either make it seem like it wasn't that big of a deal or that I made it up. He'll say things like, "That's not what I said" or "What in the h*ll are you talking about?"

Leaving me feeling confused or that I'm wasting my breath trying to be honest with him. He feels like I'm attacking him when I try to express how I feel.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, now you're seeing the real truth. With enough knowledge and therapy, you have a chance to get out of this situation. The ONLY way he will ever change is if you leave him and he then sees that he has to change to earn you back. If you stay, he will never change. But he WILL get worse.


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## Clarity123 (Sep 2, 2015)

turnera said:


> Well, now you're seeing the real truth. With enough knowledge and therapy, you have a chance to get out of this situation. The ONLY way he will ever change is if you leave him and he then sees that he has to change to earn you back. If you stay, he will never change. But he WILL get worse.


This is the part that I am struggling with. In my head, I should've left when he was telling me to not come back weeks ago. Now that things are in a calm state, I feel like I would be stirring the pot if I left now.

I would be dealing with a lot of shaming, guilt tripping and pressuring to go back from my family, his family and our friends. I can just see it now. I'd probably be made to look like the bad guy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's exactly why you need the therapy. So you can learn to love and respect yourself so that when they do, you tell them it's none of their business what you do with YOUR one life.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Clarity123 said:


> My husband has had issues with anger.... he has resorted to throwing things (not at me), calling me names, threatening to hurt me, threatening divorce, threatening to take our children away from me....


Clarity, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., temper tantrums, verbal abuse, controlling behavior, lack of empathy, lack of impulse control, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your H has full-blown BPD but, rather, that he may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your H exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits them at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met him, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your H's issues. Only a professional can do that. The main reason for learning BPD red flags, then -- like learning warning signs for breast cancer and heart attack -- is to help you decide whether there is sufficient reason to spend money on seeking a professional opinion.



> Most of his bursts of rage come out of the blue. Something that wouldn't bother him one day could completely set him off the next.


If your H really does have strong BPD traits, the temper tantrums usually will "come out of the blue," as you say. The reason is that a BPDer (person with strong traits) carries enormous anger deep inside from early childhood. This means you don't have to say or do anything to CREATE the anger. Instead, you only have to do some minor thing -- and sometimes simply being present in the room will do it -- that TRIGGERS a release of the anger that is always there.

In addition to coming "out of the blue," there is another characteristic of a BPDer's temper tantrums I should mention. It is common for a BPDer to start the very WORST arguments immediately following the very BEST of times. Hence, if your H does have strong BPD traits, you likely have seen him start many bad arguments -- over absolutely nothing -- immediately after a very intimate evening, right after a great weekend spent together, or right in the middle of a great out-of-town vacation. 

This occurs because, although BPDers crave intimacy like nearly everyone else, they are too emotionally immature to tolerate intimacy for very long. Because they lack a strong sense of self and have weak personal boundaries, BPDers quickly start feeling suffocated or controlled by their partners during intimacy. This fear of "engulfment" can even make them feel like they are losing their own identity into the partner's strong personality.

The result is that you will never know what minor thing will set him off. With BPDers, it is common for them to laugh at something you say for 8 times and then, on the 9th time, they will throw a hissy fit claiming that you have deliberately offended them. 



> I've left him a handful of times, claiming each time that I was done.. but I would come back hoping for a better outcome.


If you are in a BPDer relationship, that repeated cycle of breakup and makeup is to be expected. These relationships typically go through a number of full B/M cycles before ending for good. The reason is that BPDers typically will create arguments to push their partners away (to escape from the suffocating feeling of intimacy) and then will soon resume the love bombing to pull those partners back (to stop their painful feeling of abandonment).



> I'm starting to see that his personality falls into a couple of "types" of abusive men, Mr. Sensitive and The Victim.


BPDers exhibit both of those traits strongly. They are so overly sensitive to perceived infractions (real or imagined) that they will greatly over-react to minor comments or actions. And, because a BPDer has such a weak and unstable sense of who he is, the closest thing to a stable self image he has is the false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." 

A BPDer will maintain a death grip on that false self image, frequently seeking "validation" of it from his partner. This means he will stay with his partner only as long as she continues to play one of two roles -- rescuer or perpetrator -- because those roles support is "victim" status. That is, as long as you are trying to rescue him or are taking the blame for his every misfortune, he must be "The Victim."



> He'll look at me like I'm crazy.... leaving me *feeling confused*.


If your H actually does exhibit strong BPD traits, consider yourself lucky if you're only feeling "confused" after living with him for 7 years. Of the 157 disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds and going crazy.



> I was seeing a wonderful therapist last year but I could no longer afford to see her. I never really spoke of my husband's behavior during my sessions with her.


I agree with Turnera and EleGirl that it is important to resume counseling to obtain professional guidance -- and this time it would be prudent to describe your H's behavior to the counselor so she can tell you what you're likely dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're waiting for an appointment, you read about BPD warning signs to see if they seem to apply.

An easy place to start reading is my list of red flags at _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Clarity.


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## Bee29 (Sep 14, 2015)

Hey Clarity, don't know if you're still on here, just checking in. How are things with you?


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