# To tell or not...



## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

I've been around TAM for a while (my story is here) 

Earlier tonight, I had an awkward moment with my wife after we both received a text from my best friend announcing that he'd proposed to his girlfriend and she had accepted. So far, so good. My friend got in touch with me a week ago to let me know that he was going to propose to his girlfriend. He said that he'd only told me and another close friend. I took that to mean that he wasn't letting a lot of people around him know about his plans because he obviously wanted to surprise his g/f, so I didn't even tell my wife about his plans.

Big mistake on my part. Tonight, after the text about the engagement came, my wife asked if I knew about it beforehand. I said, "Yes, he told me last week, but he said that he'd only told me and K, so I thought that he didn't want anyone else to know". She said, "I asked you about this last week" (she was referring to her asking me if I thought my friend was going to propose to his girlfriend). My reply was that I didn't think that he wanted too many people who knew her to know, to keep the proposal more of a surprise.

That was a bad mistake, considering that my relationship with my wife, post-EA (on my part) has been pretty rough, this made her feel once again that she was being treated as "second" in my life by me not letting her in on what was going on with my friend's plans. I apologized and she said that it was ok, but I could tell from her expression and body language that things were not ok. She was quietly upset and said that she had to think about it. Later, after apologizing again for not telling her, she said, "I'm not 'everybody'", implying that I should have told her about my friend's plans. 

She felt left out and this was probably a trigger for what has happened in our own relationship. I'm thinking now that I should have told her in the beginning, but was it not reasonable to not tell my wife about my friend's plans to lessen the chances of his now fianceé from finding out by mistake?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Uuuumm ... no. There is transparency for sure. But ther eare things that in all reason you do not share with your spouse.

1) When someone is going to propose to someone else and they don't want you to tell anyone else.

2) If you know that the raid on Bin Laden is happening tonight. You are not allowed to tell your spouse.

3) Things that would constitute insider trading I suppose.

Probably a few others as well.

That said, there is a burden for the rest of your marriage after an EA to go the extra mile in transparency. But this is not one of those times. You were not at liberty to share this with her. next time someone tells you a secret. Ask them if they would mind if you shared it with your wife if you feel you are not capable of making that decision on your own.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

Seriously now. Top secret government plans are obviously off limit, but this certainly does not rank anything like that. And, yes that means you CAN tell your wife about insider trading. What she does with that information is up to her. The same with this. If she breached your trust and spread the word to someone else, then that also is up to her. But, you telling your wife does not breach your friend's trust. Everyone on this earth should know not to tell a married person anything they don't want that person's spouse to know about because any and all information is fair game between spouses. This is the reason our court system does require a person to testify against their spouse. It is EXPECTED you will tell your wife.

I guess you realize the problem you created here....or rather, the problem you perpetuated. You have cheated on her, and now you continue to leave her out of your life. She is right when she said she is not "everyone." You need to learn what your wife needs to feel she means to you because you keep telling her she means little of nothing, no more than and probably not even as much as the next door neighbor. When she's done and fed up with your inconsideration, you'll be back here wondering how to handle the divorce she filed for.

It is not okay to let your wife know your friend means more to you than she does.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

I don't think that you caused WW3 here but I do get your wife's veiw of it. I hope that she can see it for the mistake that it was on your part and I hope you tell her everything from this moment forward.
All my family and friends know that telling me anything that they do not wish to have shared will be shared with my Husband and yet they still confide in me and will even say, "tell your H that this is not to go around." 
I believe there should never be secrets from one another even stupid dumb gossip or even a friend is going to pop the question. I keep this in mind when I share things with my friends that to do so their spouse will know too.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm a woman and have had to deal with my eH and his EAs. Somehow, this is not the kind of information, especially since it came from a male buddy that I would get upset about not haering sooner rather than later.

However, had that been a female friend texting my H about her milestone intentions, I would be annoyed. to be honest, I would be annoyed if I didn't hear it directly from her.

Were I to marry again, I would be more keen about ensuring that my H's female friends see me as an equal partner / part of the package that comes with a friendship with him. I would certainly get an e-mail address with both of our names and expect them to use it. And as far as texting, well she would have to put both phone numbers on the text so that we could receive it at the same time.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

That's not the point though nexttimearound. 
He lied to her. Doesn't matter what it was about.
That was a trigger for her.
I hope your lesson is learnt tm84!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mephisto (Feb 20, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> That's not the point though nexttimearound.
> He lied to her. Doesn't matter what it was about.
> That was a trigger for her.
> I hope your lesson is learnt tm84!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Um, no he didn't. He told the perfect truth to her. Seriously, if my mates tell me something in confidence it stays that way, wife or no wife. Unless it effects her, then I tell THEM that she needs to know and will be told.


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

River1977 said:


> SeriouEveryone on this earth should know not to tell a married person anything they don't want that person's spouse to know about because any and all information is fair game between spouses. This is the reason our court system does require a person to testify against their spouse. It is EXPECTED you will tell your wife.


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

Darn iPhone. Anyway I agree with the statement I just posted above. I've always thought no matter what I tell my male or female friends in confidence that their spouse will know it to. Honestly I thought most people assumed this as well.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

daisygirl 41 said:


> That's not the point though nexttimearound.
> He lied to her. Doesn't matter what it was about.
> That was a trigger for her.
> I hope your lesson is learnt tm84!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Agree , withholding information can become a habit , especialy as this is from the one person who you want trust from. Take it as a lesson learned .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

she sounds like a gosip. my opinion no you didn;t have to tell a fried told you in confidence. this info had no impact on her so no need to tell her.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Your wife is making a big deal out of this. Your friend told you something that wasn't going to effect you or your wife, and then he said not to tell anyone.

You don't have to tell your wife EVERYTHING people tell you daily. Good grief.

She asked you last week...oh well. She needs to get over it and be happy for your friends.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

Telling her or not telling her may well seem like a matter of opinion, but it's not. What matters is how SHE feels about it. Respondents seem to be missing the point, which is that once again, he created a scenario of exclusion. She feels that as his wife, she is and should be privy to information that comes by him. She knows that kind of sharing is expected between spouses. Yet, he left her out of the loop and by doing so, is continuing his pattern of excluding her and keeping secrets from her. She feels kept at arm's length from him and despite his apparent apology for his emotional affair (which alone is a major violation of her trust), he still keeps her out of his life. He keeps letting her know other people mean more to him than she does, and his loyalties continue to lie elsewhere......everywhere but with her.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think the key issue here is that he choose to lie to her and put the friend above her.

- I'd talk to your wife and simply tell her your sorry that you see now how you screwed up and that at the time you were only focused on the small issue of keeping the friends plans secret, and not the bigger picture.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

Holy crud peeps. Geesh... If the best friend didn't want it told... so be it. 

It is not about him "lying"... or leaving out a truth by omission... It is about her feeling left out.\
j


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

Thank you for all of your responses. I appreciate your input. 

When my friend told me of his plans, I thought of it no further than he might want to keep his proposal plans under the radar until he went through with it. Unfortunately, it was completely an assumption on my part that he didn't want anyone else to know and I included my wife within that area, which should not have been the case upon reflection. 

I did apologize to her for not sharing that information and she seems to have accepted it. Although, now I feel like sh!t because I've added yet another spritz of gasoline on the fire. I honestly thought that when she read the text that she'd be really surprised and happy about the news if I didn't say anything about it beforehand. Obviously, that backfired and now it's back to square one with learning to share more openly.

I will add that part of this stems from how differently we communicate, in general. This is typical of a lot of the stories on TAM, but I'm not big on details and my wife is. I'm much more insular than she is. Typical chat when I get home from work: 

Her: "How was work?"
Me: "Ok, nothing special. And yours?"
Her: "Well, this happened, that happened, and then on my way home..."

You get the idea. Unless something happens that really affects me in an intense way, I don't usually hold onto it to tell later. Most of my day is fairly mundane and since I work with the public, I learned a long time ago to let a lot of interactions slide off so as to not let negative interactions affect me personally. So, I tend to lump everything into that bag and toss it. By the time I get home, I can't even remember much of any interaction I had, so I don't feel like I have much to share. 

Anyway, lesson learned. Back to the drawing board.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

Yes. sounds like lesson learned...

Another small suggestion though... when something odd or unusual does happen at work, keep it in mind...

When she asks "how was work?"... You could say "Well I did have an irate/weird/crazy, etc... customer today"..."Do you want to hear about it?"

If she does, she will feel that much more connected to you, because you are communicating closer to her level... even if it is something that seems very insignificant to you, it might make a bit of difference, just because she feels like you are sharing something with her.

If she doesn't want to hear it... then maybe she is just using the question as a conversation starter, so she can tell you about her day & get it off her chest.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

tm84, I met a guy when I was 10 years old and secretly liked him. Didn't see him much for many years, but we met again at 20 and began dating for a couple years. I was crazy about him, but it never felt quite right for various reasons. A scenario similar to yours was the major reason. He bought a new car, a really nice sports car that everyone liked. I asked him how much it cost (I really wanted one, too), and his answer was, "A lot of money!" That was the last straw for me that made me see he was never going to let me in. I always felt like a seperate part of his life - just a compartmentalized aspect he kept at arm's length. Like you, he didn't communicate much. He never knew his answer really stuck with me. Obviously, it still does to this day because this guy remains the great love of my life (we never lost contact), but I didn't want that kind of life. I never believed him when he TOLD me that he loved me and never believed any of the other sweet nothings that usually work on women because when it really mattered, he was emotionally absent. There never was any kind of communication or connection. So, I couldn't find any reason at all to trust him with my heart or my future.

A book author once wrote, "There's nothing small about small talk." You really have to get that message. You have already blatantly and openly caused distrust in your wife. You need to recognize the importance of communication and pulling her in to your world so she feels a part of the whole and not just some disjointed appendage. You'd be surprised how much sharing your day can mean to her, as well as keeping her in the loop of what goes on in your life.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

Chelle D said:


> Yes. sounds like lesson learned...
> 
> Another small suggestion though... when something odd or unusual does happen at work, keep it in mind...
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'll have to work on that one. I'm so far into the habit of dismissing so much that it's tough to hold onto those insignificant-to-me moments, but I'll give it a try.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

It is true you don't have to tell your wife everything. However, you have a problem, you have been deceptive and humiliated her. You shunted your wife off to one area of you mind so that you could carry on that deception. 

The problem is not the surprise proposal, it is that she is still isolated in your mind. Fundamentally, you have not elevated her status in your mind therefore, she is still an afterthought. 

If I had happy news of the nature you describe, I would not think twice abut telling my husband. That would be the first thing to enter my mind, sharing happy news. Telling him is like telling myself. If I can keep a secret then so can he. 

You seem to have had and still have a problem integrating your wife into every area of your like.

Think of it like this. You mind is like a house with many rooms. There is the work room, wife room, family room and friend room. It appears that you wife has access to the family room but not the work or friend room in your mind. 

You do each activity in a room and then to the next, You forget about the other rooms until you are in them. She takes up little of your thoughts until you are in the wife room. 

Your partner should be in part of every aspect of your life, in my opinion. You don't have to exist in lonely silos. That's why we have spouses, to share our lives. 

You sound like a very lonely and forlorn man. Would you not be happier if you invited your wife into all your rooms to keep you company? 

I bet that would be a joy to her. You would have no problem thinking about her and sharing with her all aspects of your life.

Have you read any relationship books? Sounds like you are not really working hard to reconnect with your wife and solve your problems. 

Eventually I think your marriage will die as a result. Right now your wife is trying, she has to see something from you besides blank resignation, don't you think. Do you want the marriage or are you just going through the motions?

BTW how is your sex life now?


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Usually it's a simple rule--if the secret is not yours, then you should not share it. 

But some people think that because the law says that a married couple is one person in some regards (which is why a spouse cannot be forced to testify against their spouse), that there can be no secrets between spouses. So, technically (in the eyes of the law and these people), telling your wife is not telling anyone else--you are kind of telling yourself again. Yeah, it's a legal fiction, but it's what we have.

I still think that if it is not YOUR secret--something YOU are hiding about yourself, your feelings, health, thoughts, etc.--you can respect your friend's wish to keep it quiet. 

Clearly your wife has an additional reason to react to the news that you kept a secret--and the rational part of her understands that it was not "your" secret. Emotionally, she feels threatened b/c she *knows* you did keep your secrets from her, and this brought back the traumatic moments of realization that you kept secrets that caused her pain. 

I'd encourage you to bring it up to your wife again, and to thank her for making the distinction between your secrets vs. someone else's secret. Ask her how she wants you to handle this in the future. You might need to tell your closest friend(s) that you will be sharing EVERYTHING, even their secrets, with your wife for the foreseeable future, so they should not tell you anything they don't want her to know, too. That way, you've covered yourself.

But talk to her again and acknowledge how this had to have been a painful reminder of times you have previously violated her trust. Do something special to acknowledge your appreciation for her bearing the new pain of the old wound. Good of you to be sensitive to it, but not enough.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

River1977 said:


> tm84, I met a guy when I was 10 years old and secretly liked him. Didn't see him much for many years, but we met again at 20 and began dating for a couple years. I was crazy about him, but it never felt quite right for various reasons. A scenario similar to yours was the major reason. He bought a new car, a really nice sports car that everyone liked. I asked him how much it cost (I really wanted one, too), and his answer was, "A lot of money!" That was the last straw for me that made me see he was never going to let me in. I always felt like a seperate part of his life - just a compartmentalized aspect he kept at arm's length. Like you, he didn't communicate much. He never knew his answer really stuck with me. Obviously, it still does to this day because this guy remains the great love of my life (we never lost contact), but I didn't want that kind of life. I never believed him when he TOLD me that he loved me and never believed any of the other sweet nothings that usually work on women because when it really mattered, he was emotionally absent. There never was any kind of communication or connection. So, I couldn't find any reason at all to trust him with my heart or my future.
> 
> A book author once wrote, "There's nothing small about small talk." You really have to get that message. You have already blatantly and openly caused distrust in your wife. You need to recognize the importance of communication and pulling her in to your world so she feels a part of the whole and not just some disjointed appendage. You'd be surprised how much sharing your day can mean to her, as well as keeping her in the loop of what goes on in your life.


Thanks for sharing your story. "There's nothing small about small talk"-I think that this has been one of my major failings in how I have communicated (or not communicated) with my wife and other people, at times. My issue is that I learned a long time ago that that I wanted to keep certain negative and dangerous people at arm's length in order to survive my teen years. The fallout from that has been that I'm now used to keeping things to myself and/or disgarding those things that I think are insignificant to me in order to focus my energies on what I consider important.

"Important" includes my wife, but it has been difficult to let go of old habits and communicating with her in a really open manner and recognizing the importance of what the "small things" may mean to her. 

Thanks again.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

tm84 said:


> The fallout from that has been that I'm now used to keeping things to myself and/or disgarding those things that I think are insignificant to me in order to focus my energies on what I consider important.
> 
> "Important" includes my wife, but it has been difficult to let go of old habits and communicating with her in a really open manner and recognizing the importance of what the "small things" may mean to her.
> 
> Thanks again.


You need to be honest with your wife. Being honest doesn't just mean not lying to her. It also means sharing with her information you believe is important_ to her_. By openly sharing what you know and what's going on in your life, you rebuild her safety and trust in you. When you're honest she feels safe. When you're honest it gives her another reason to trust you.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> You sound like a very lonely and forlorn man. Would you not be happier if you invited your wife into all your rooms to keep you company?
> 
> _- I'm not lonely and forlorn, but I am depressed about what a mess I made of my marriage and how much I hurt my wife._
> 
> ...


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## smith9800 (Mar 7, 2012)

yeah..it's right that there must be transparency in every relationship, but it was about your friend and your wife is over reacting. It was not necessary for her. Your apologize gave her more strength to react on this matter.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

This is why when my friends say "Don't tell anyone", I say, "except hubs  " They assume I will tell him in passing because we talk.

But if your wife is a gossip, let your friends know that "hey, i don't keep secrets from my wife, so if you don't want people to know, don't tell me either."

Gotta be proactive.

I still think it's a silly issue. If hubs kept a secret like this from me, I wouldn't care. Holy crap. ESPECIALLY if I'm a known gossip. That's a given why people wouldn't tell you.


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

Agree with Dean

Anything said to me in confidence from a friend, stays that way until they release it.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

Thanks to everyone who has responded. It's been good to get your take on this issue. 

A couple of you have expressed the thought that my wife is a gossip based on my post, and that isn't the case at all. She was upset that I didn't tell her what I knew about the proposal plans, hence she felt left out and based on our recent history, felt that I was keeping her on the sidelines in our relationship. 

Bear in mind that my friend didn't say explicitly that his news was to be kept secret, I *assumed* that and didn't think to pursue it further. 

She does have a hard time with not knowing some things, like not knowing what her Christmas or birthday presents are. I'll give her hints, but will not tell her to keep the gift a surprise, like it's supposed to be.


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