# Should I tell my husband the truth about my past



## Butterfly_Princess (Nov 17, 2019)

Here is my little copy and past from the intro forum: My name is Angela, 25 years old, from Orange County, Cali. Married for 5 months and 9 days now. My husband is 32 and this is his second marriage and my first. No children between us..yet.

This is a challenging question that I must ask and I am seeking advice from both men and women. All replies including the good, the bad, and the ultimate ugly will be accepted. 

Last week while my husband and I were having sex he blatantly asked me if I had really been with only 2 guys before we were married. I answered yes and did my best on just enjoying the moment and sticking with my story.

I am adding an EDIT here and I want to explain that the way he asked me did not feel cruel or punishing. Now that I am thinking about it part of me believes that he might find the real number somewhat sexually gratifying but I am not entirely sure.

I am adding another EDIT here and I want to tell all the additional readers that I had originally told him 2 Partners within the first month of us being together. This was something I have been telling every guy who ever asked me. I had no clue he was going to be my husband and obviously I could have changed a couple things prior to us getting married but I did not.

Truth be told my story is not true. It is a past that I prefer forgetting about, but I will say on here the total is more than 2. My high school years were somewhat dumb and naïve, and my time in college and prior to marriage were partially naïve but I took better care of myself. 

For my husband I met him last year and sex between us started to occur within weeks of our relationship. My feeling is that I basically made it obvious from the beginning that I was okay with sex, and I think this in itself creates a red flag. Our marriage would happen almost exactly a year later from us first finding each other. 

My other issue about this is that my husband has told me that he was only with 1 woman before he married his first wife. I have never truly believed this! Part of me is believing that maybe he wishes on telling me the truth about his partners but ONLY if I tell him first. 

So, what do I do? Do I stick with "2" OR do I give him another number that I just magically think about in my head (that I will no doubt forget later on) OR do I tell him the truth about my sexual partners? 

With that said my other question is what would his reaction be towards this? And with that said what will my reaction be IF I find out HIS story is not completely true? Don't we basically create an issue that never was intended to be an issue? 

All of this is the FIRST of MANY issues that this marriage will create, I no doubt know this, but what is the best option on this??? All advice accepted<a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_kiss.png" border="0" alt="" title="Kiss" ></a>


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I don’t like that he stopped in the middle of sex to ask this question. That was weird and what a mood killer. 

Why aren’t you annoyed by that? If he wants an adult truthful discussion why do it that way?

Anyway, I myself would sit him down and tell him that was rude and weird to ask that way. And that because of that you know that your actual number is something he will judge you for. But that ok here is the actual number, and actually give it to him. Then just deal with how the chips fall. Let him decide if he can’t get over the truth or not.

I don’t think it was wise to mislead him to begin with, obviously. Instead you could have told him it was none of his business, then he could have decided to court you or not if he didn’t know your number. If that was a big deal to him, he could have bailed then.

It is a big deal to some people, to others it would only be a big deal of the number was in the hundreds or something. Though I think someone with numbers that high would not be able to hide that fact forever, either.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Personally, I don't think you should change your story at all. And yeah, why is he asking such a question during sex?

If you feel guilty about it unload it with a licensed therapist.

Do NOT confide the actual number to your husband, a girlfriend, nobody. It does not matter if the number is "3", "30, or "300".

As long as you have been tested for all the STIs and uninfected, you have nothing to share with him or anyone who would enjoy the gossip about it.

And, of course, do not add to the number.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Butterfly_Princess said:


> Here is my little copy and past from the intro forum: My name is Angela, 25 years old, from Orange County, Cali. Married for 5 months and 9 days now. My husband is 32 and this is his second marriage and my first. No children between us..yet.
> 
> This is a challenging question that I must ask and I am seeking advice from both men and women. All replies including the good, the bad, and the ultimate ugly will be accepted.
> 
> ...


You can look up my (sad) story here. I'm in a very religious marriage and my husband does not have any idea that i was not a virgin when we got married. The truth is that I was very promiscuous before we started dating in college. I led him to believe that virginity until marriage was important to me before we even started dating. So a little white lie at that point and i chose not to open up about what I was doing. At that point, I never thought we'd get together. I did not have the heart or the courage to tell him the truth. The truth is far too disturbing and would really hurt him. I'm ashamed of it too.

Your story is very different but I just wanted to let you know that others are struggling with "dirty secrets" of our own and you're not alone with this.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Why don't you believe him about his number? Why did you lie to him in the first place? Is he chauvanistic and would he have been bothered if you had been with more people?

IMO your secret will eat at you and eventually you'll tell him. The longer you wait, the more upset he will be. He will question every year he was with you and think it was a lie.

You need to tell him before more time goes by. Tell him that you understand if he wants to end the marriage because of the lie, but if he chooses to stay you don't want to be emotionally beat up over it for years to come.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> I don’t like that he stopped in the middle of sex to ask this question. That was weird and what a mood killer.
> 
> Why aren’t you annoyed by that? If he wants an adult truthful discussion why do it that way?


There is a possibility that he gets off on that. I guess it depends on how he asked. I've been with a few guys who asked me about my past during sex. Like they wanted me to confess that i was a ****. Part of like humiliation/domination/shaming type play I guess. For example, a guy was having sex with me and he demanded - "tell me how many other guys did this to you..." and proceeded with name calling - **** *****, dirty, etc.

i have no idea if this was the case here but just saying that it could be that. Or even if he was more sheepish about it, he may have had the same type of intent but just did it in an awkward way, like it was a conversation.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I cant understand why anyone would want to lie to their spouse. These sorts of things should have been discussed before you married, and if they weren't, then do it now. Otherwise you will set a precedent of lying and deception in your marriage which is not good and will damage it. 
Tell him the truth. If you cant remember how many then say that. There should be no lies or deception in a marriage.
As for him not sure why you cant believe him, not everyone has lots of partners and maybe he met his wife quite young.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

The fact that he asked at that particular time means he does not believe you for some reason. While I do not believe in NOT telling the truth, I am possibly not qualified to advise on the matter since I have only ever had sex with one person and am now married to him for past 14 years. I also believe I am his only one.

The reason I am telling you this is that I want you to imagine that hem and I split up due to some reason, death included, and I decide to date. Imagine me telling my new husband to be that I am nearly 40 and I have only ever had sex with one person when I was 24 but I had dated him from age 14. Even my friends look at me with a puzzled look when I tell them the story. Would the man believe me? Maybe not, but its true.

Society expects sex at the same rate as meals, but there are people who really follow what they believe. I went to a wedding 6 years where the woman was a virgin at 34 and the man whom I am related to through marriage was also a virgin at 35. She was so nervous about sex she was asking me what she should do or if it hurts the first time. They have two lovely boys now. 

Why do people need to know if their partner has had two or twenty former sex partners? What material difference does it actually make? Are they looking for a tool to beat you up with when you fall out? Is it to protect themselves from meeting people their spouse might have had sex with in the past who might give them funny looks or say something that creates awkward moments? What is the psychology behind the need to know?

What if he/she never asks at all? does that also have a psychological impact on the person expecting to be asked? 

What of people who have open relationships which? 

What of people who share girls/boys with their friends? A 28 year old at my work place was saying him and his young brother almost always have sex with any girl either of them brings home. They have had an HIV scare twice this year. Will they still ask women they will want to marry how many partners they have had?


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> I cant understand why anyone would want to lie to their spouse. These sorts of things should have been discussed before you married, and if they weren't, then do it now. Otherwise you will set a precedent of lying and deception in your marriage which is not good and will damage it.
> Tell him the truth. If you cant remember how many then say that. There should be no lies or deception in a marriage.
> As for him not sure why you cant believe him, not everyone has lots of partners and maybe he met his wife quite young.


I don't think anyone WANTS to lie to their spouse. I know that I don't. Keeping this deep dark and dirty secret is very difficult (i'm not asking for sympathy) so believe me, it's not something I want to do but something that I must do to keep my marriage and protect my husband from the ultimate hurt.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I totally agree that his timing in asking a question of that nature, more especially during lovemaking, is unfortunate! No matter how well intended, it can be a consummate mood-killer! Perhaps he asked out of a sense of personal insecurity. At the moment, I think you handled it the best that you could!

I don't really purport for anyone to ever hide the truth from anyone. But all in due time, and probably with your clothes on, you'll need to tell him an approximation. 

He may care ~ he may not! Hopefully, the latter!

But the marriage bed is certainly no place to be covering logistics. Fully use it to enjoy what each of you lovingly bring to that union! *


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

First, he is being an ass hat for asking you this during sex.

I honestly can't comprehend the low level of human functionality it takes to be that stupid.

Secondly, you don't have to be ashamed of anything. Your past is what it is and you can be fine with it, embarrassed of it or anywhere in between but it can't be changed, only learned from and that is up to you.

Thirdly, I don't think you should lie to your husband with this caveat, that you refuse to be judged or held in anything else but honor and love by him.

He promised to love and honor you if you took traditional vows, not judge you for your past.

You shouldn't put up with any bull **** from him about this and be ready to walk away if he doesn't start acting like a husband that really wants you.

You are young and will have many more chances at finding a kind and loving husband if he won't behave.

I still can't believe some of the ways people behave!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> I don't think anyone WANTS to lie to their spouse. I know that I don't. Keeping this deep dark and dirty secret is very difficult (i'm not asking for sympathy) so believe me, it's not something I want to do but something that I must do to keep my marriage and protect my husband from the ultimate hurt.


I cant agree that you should keep something so important from him, and you married him under false pretences. He deserves to know the truth. Its not about protecting him, its about you not wanting to risk loosing the marriage.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

JustTheWife said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > I don’t like that he stopped in the middle of sex to ask this question. That was weird and what a mood killer.
> ...


I wondered about this too. But it is still creepy and annoying to bring it up like that. They are already married and were having married sex. 

The sitch you described sounds more like you went along with something that a rando guy liked. If her H wanted to talk to her about exes because it turns him on, he should have introduced that kind of thing when they were still dating. She didn’t consent to discussing this during sex.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MaiChi said:


> The fact that he asked at that particular time means he does not believe you for some reason. While I do not believe in NOT telling the truth, I am possibly not qualified to advise on the matter since I have only ever had sex with one person and am now married to him for past 14 years. I also believe I am his only one.
> 
> The reason I am telling you this is that I want you to imagine that hem and I split up due to some reason, death included, and I decide to date. Imagine me telling my new husband to be that I am nearly 40 and I have only ever had sex with one person when I was 24 but I had dated him from age 14. Even my friends look at me with a puzzled look when I tell them the story. Would the man believe me? Maybe not, but its true.
> 
> ...


When we are deciding whether to get married to someone we talk, we get to know the other person, we ask questions, we answer questions so that we can make an informed decision as to whether we are compatible or not. How can we possibly make a decision if we are lied to?

Is it right that someone who has been married 3 times lies and says they have only been married once? Or lies about the fact that they have been in jail? Or says they have 2 children when in fact that have others they are keeping quiet about? Or says they want children when in fact they don't? Or says they earn much more than they do? 
Sex is important, why would anyone lie about how many people they have had sex with? If they have then they have married under false pretences. Lies are lies and have no place in a marriage. I don't see it as a NEED to know, but as just another important aspect or the relationship that should be discussed and sorted out before marriage. If a man I married lied to me about this, I would then wonder what else he may be lying about and the trust would be shaken.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> I wondered about this too. But it is still creepy and annoying to bring it up like that. They are already married and were having married sex.
> 
> The sitch you described sounds more like you went along with something that a rando guy liked. If her H wanted to talk to her about exes because it turns him on, he should have introduced that kind of thing when they were still dating. She didn’t consent to discussing this during sex.


I don't really know. I just wanted to say that this happened to me and yes, it was with random guys but also once with a guy i was seeing. People's preferences evolve so i'm not sure that I agree that he should have introduced it when they were dating. Maybe he was afraid to. Maybe it's a new interest. I don't know if this was the reason for it. The way she described it sounds different from what those guys did to me. Anyway, i'm not trying to argue that it's normal or good or whatever. just presenting a possibility based on my own experience.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> First, he is being an ass hat for asking you this during sex.
> 
> I honestly can't comprehend the low level of human functionality it takes to be that stupid.
> 
> ...



Well, I'm going to disagree with you on this one point. She lied to him. That's dishonorable. 


The point of marriage is to find a compatible partner. Some people don't care at all about prior experience. Some people care a great deal. Both are entitled to their opinions, and have the right to find a compatible spouse that makes them both happy. 

What shouldn't occur is that a high number experience person marry someone who values low number prior experience. Especially if it is done through deceit. That's inexcusable. 

There are over 7 billion people on this planet. A different spouse could be found for whom the prior experience doesn't matter. There's no reason for deceit. It's never OK. And while she should NOT be ashamed of her prior experience, the lying IS something that is dishonorable. 

Personally, regardless of any prior experience issue, if I found out that my spouse knew of something that was THAT IMPORTANT to me, yet lied to me anyway, I could never be with that person. It means they do not love me in the true, altruistic way, only in a selfish way. That means she didn't care about what was best for me (finding the best partner), but only what was best for her (getting married). It would be unforgivable in my book, because I couldn't rely on her to consider my best interests or feelings in the future.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Count or not starting a relationship off on lies is wrong and doesn't lead to a good chance. No one should be posting to total strangers about how they started their relationship on lies. I don't even get the point. Why do you want to be with someone who has a fundamentally different thought process on sex. Makes no sense.

So why didn't you tell him the truth? Sounds like you tried to manipulate the situation to your benefit. That's the problem. Your still doing that. You don't do that to people you love, and it doesn't make for a good relationship. If your count is a problem then you married the wrong guy, unfortunately you would have done better off to tell him before you married. But now the problem is going to be that you manipulated him and he has a right to be mad. It will be hard to judge what the reason is. 

Tell the truth now because the longer you lie the worse off it will be if he ever finds out the truth. 

Every time you lie to people like this you take away agency in their future.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Wolfman1968 said:


> Well, I'm going to disagree with you on this one point. She lied to him. That's dishonorable.
> 
> 
> The point of marriage is to find a compatible partner. Some people don't care at all about prior experience. Some people care a great deal. Both are entitled to their opinions, and have the right to find a compatible spouse that makes them both happy.
> ...


I actually don't disagree with the lying part at all. She shouldn't have. I think she should tell him the truth and be prepared to walk away if he gives her any grief about anything besides lying.

If he can't handle it, the marriage is still new and not much invested.

I got a good read on this weirdo. Anyone low enough to try and trip a woman up while inside her doesn't rate high in my esteem.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> I actually don't disagree with the lying part at all. She shouldn't have. I think she should tell him the truth and be prepared to walk away if he gives her any grief about anything besides lying.
> 
> If he can't handle it, the marriage is still new and not much invested.
> 
> I got a good read on this weirdo. Anyone low enough to try and trip a woman up while inside her doesn't rate high in my esteem.


Maybe something they were doing tipped him off. Let's just say no one has distinguished themselves in this story.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

So I think an alternative to why he asked during sex: He doesn't believe you (esp. if you exhibit some skills during lovemaking) and he thinks that maybe he can get you to "confess" during a close time -- complete guess work here, so could be 100% wrong.

Also, just think of this: What if you "run in" to someone that you had sex with in the past, and he spills the beans in front of your husband? What if he finds out some other way (a friend who knew you then getting drunk and telling stories of your past not knowing your Husband doesn't know, etc.)?

How do you think he'd react THEN? After you have repeatedly told him there were only 2? Why weren't you honest with him to begin with?
IF you think he can't handle a larger number, then maybe you shouldn't have continued the relationship LONG before you got married.

I think you need a strategy to sit down and discuss this with him and WHY you didn't tell him the truth to begin with. You do realize that he is going to wonder what else you lied about, so expect that.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Maybe something they were doing tipped him off. Let's just say no one has distinguished themselves in this story.


Agreed, and I just don't get those here who think he did something so henous by asking her during sex. So what?
Also its not just the lies that re wrong, if you marry someone having been told that your partner had say one or two other sexual partners and it turns out that they had say 20, then you have a right to be angry. Its important to some people that their spouse shares their views on not seeing sex as something casual.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I don't really understand the judgment on this thread about how/when he asked you. I guess I can imagine a number of scenarios that would make it natural to say something then.

However....I think it makes a difference how big a lie this is. Lying is not at all good and no marriage should be based on lies. If your lie is a smallish one - say, 4 times instead of two - then your H will be much more able to absorb that new reality. If the real number is 20, though, you've got a bigger problem. That could be a dealbreaker for some people.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

MaiChi said:


> Why do people need to know if their partner has had two or twenty former sex partners? What material difference does it actually make? Are they looking for a tool to beat you up with when you fall out? Is it to protect themselves from meeting people their spouse might have had sex with in the past who might give them funny looks or say something that creates awkward moments? What is the psychology behind the need to know?


This.

I never cared one way or the other how many partners.
My thought is that we are in the now and that's all that mattered.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

snerg said:


> This.
> 
> I never cared one way or the other how many partners.
> My thought is that we are in the now and that's all that mattered.


Would you feel the same if they had lied about other stuff?


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Would you feel the same if they had lied about other stuff?


What other stuff?

I make it very clear from the start of the relationship I simply don't care how many you've been with.

I've never been intimidated by a woman's number.
What do I care how many she has been with.
I get to benefit from that experience and hopefully be with someone that's as HD as I am.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MaiChi said:


> The fact that he asked at that particular time means he does not believe you for some reason. While I do not believe in NOT telling the truth, I am possibly not qualified to advise on the matter since I have only ever had sex with one person and am now married to him for past 14 years. I also believe I am his only one.
> 
> The reason I am telling you this is that I want you to imagine that hem and I split up due to some reason, death included, and I decide to date. Imagine me telling my new husband to be that I am nearly 40 and I have only ever had sex with one person when I was 24 but I had dated him from age 14. Even my friends look at me with a puzzled look when I tell them the story. Would the man believe me? Maybe not, but its true.
> 
> ...


People are allowed to have any criteria that they want when choosing who they are with. For some it means they need to be funny. Some religious. Hell there are people on here who will not date someone with a low sex count. For some people sex is a sacred act. For others it's nothing more important then having coffee. Some people want it to be special and reserved for few, others want to have lots of experiences. Point is who are you or anyone else to lie or tell people they can't have their own preferences in who they are with. 

It's interesting that the way the only time I ever hear this argument (about it being no ones business) ever being made is by people who have a high sex count who don't want to accept that they will limit their choices. My question is why would you want to be with someone you have to lie to have the chance anyway?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

snerg said:


> I never cared one way or the other how many partners.
> 
> 
> I've never been intimidated by a woman's number.
> ...


Good for you. That's not the point. Don't assume it's only about intimidation. I have a low count and I passed up a lot of potential sex so that what I had with my wife was unique. It was important that she felt the same way about it. I really pisses me off when I read crap like this last post. Your choices are your own, just like mine are. Where there is a problem is when people take away others choices by lying. Especially when there is a fundamentally different way of thinking when it comes to this.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

I think Einstein said, " If success in life is A then A = x+y+z. x is work, y is play, and z is keeping your mouth shut. Next time he ask tell him two is your story and you're sticking with it. If he starts asking you to describe your experience with these guys, don't be surprised. (considering the timing of his query)


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm totally fine with it limiting my choices. Accepting and respecting the preferences of others isn't troublesome for me at all.

If I meet someone who wants to marry a woman with x amount of partners, I don't have a problem ending the relationship.

But I do not have to explain myself. 




sokillme said:


> It's interesting that the way the only time I ever hear this argument (about it being no ones business) ever being made is by people who have a high sex count who don't want to accept that they will limit their choices. My question is why would you want to be with someone you have to lie to have the chance anyway?


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Butterfly_Princess said:


> For my husband I met him last year and sex between us started to occur within weeks of our relationship. My feeling is that I basically made it obvious from the beginning that I was okay with sex, and I think this in itself creates a red flag.


Assuming your husband isn't an idiot (defined as someone with IQ below 30), he knows you're lying. How much weight he puts on this particular deception, only he knows. 



Butterfly_Princess said:


> Our marriage would happen almost exactly a year later from us first finding each other.


Not enough time to get to know someone who is meant to be a lifelong spouse. 

My recommendation as an anonymous online opinion spewer.....be more honest and grow in maturity.

Prognosis......salvageable.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

minimalME said:


> I'm totally fine with it limiting my choices. Accepting and respecting the preferences of others isn't troublesome for me at all.
> 
> If I meet someone who wants to marry a woman with x amount of partners, I don't have a problem ending the relationship.
> 
> But I do not have to explain myself.


I didn't say all high count thinks that way. I said high count seem to be the only ones who think lying isn't a big deal. 

I guess that's because us who waited never got that chance. Every single time I dated someone more then a few dates at some point would have the conversation why we weren't having sex yet. It all depended on if we fell in love or not. Let me tell you that is not a real fun conversation to have. Knowing that half the time they think you are weird. Many time having it pretty much end soon after. Hearing your masculinity questioned by popular culture. Also dealing with the desire but not acting on it, especially when you are a healthy testosterone infused young man. 

This is why I have absolutely NO RESPECT for people who can't do the same. I get it life's ****ing hard, high or low just tell the truth.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Good for you. That's not the point. Don't assume it's only about intimidation. I have a low count and I passed up a lot of potential sex so that what I had with my wife was unique. It was important that she felt the same way about it. I really pisses me off when I read crap like this last post. Your choices are your own, just like mine are. Where there is a problem is when people take away others choices by lying. Especially when there is a fundamentally different way of thinking when it comes to this.


You've taken my answer a little out of context.

I was actually answering a question as to why do people need to know.

I was asked about what if they lied (I admit, I was assuming about partner numbers so I could very well be wrong here).
I answered only about me.

My point was that I don't give the other person a chance to lie about their numbers.
I make it very clear from the beginning that it doesn't matter to me so they don't need to lie about their numbers.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I think your marriage needs an overhaul and it's barely even started. Marriage is based on being in unity and living life together. It involves complete honesty and having each other's backs. You two didn't start out that way, but you can change things on your end by talking to your husband about the value you place on your marriage and that you want it to be safe place for both of you throughout your lives. Home should be a haven from the cares of the world where we are safe and secure. Until and unless you can tell your husband the truth, that is not how your marriage is. In order to have the best marriage possible, it starts with each individual doing his or her part. I recommend you approach it from this aspect and get started on building a firm foundation for your marriage.

Someone on this site (sorry forgot who) said that the first year of marriage is when the marriage template is formed. I believe that. It's time to start forming a template where you are transparent with each other and have each other's backs.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Cynthia said:


> I think your marriage needs an overhaul and it's barely even started. Marriage is based on being in unity and living life together. It involves complete honesty and having each other's backs. You two didn't start out that way, but you can change things on your end by talking to your husband about the value you place on your marriage and that you want it to be safe place for both of you throughout your lives. Home should be a haven from the cares of the world where we are safe and secure. Until and unless you can tell your husband the truth, that is now how your marriage is. In order to have the best marriage possible, it starts with each individual doing his or her part. I recommend you approach it from this aspect and get started on building a firm foundation for your marriage.
> 
> Someone on this site (sorry forgot who) said that the first year of marriage is when the marriage template is formed. I believe that. It's time to start forming a template where you are transparent with each other and have each other's backs.


Far more eloquent and gentle than me.

This is a good outlook OP.


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## Butterfly_Princess (Nov 17, 2019)

*First of all thankyou for all the replies. Now, I must answer some of these replies on here:

I knew my husband a year before we got married and please understand I never knew I would marry him, but I am of course glad I did. The first time he asked me the "HOW MANY GUYS" question was the first month we were together. I told him 2, and I told him 2 because that was what I would say for any guy who asked me. 2 is a simple number. I also have names for those 2, David and Jason.

Why he asked this second time DURING sex is beyond me. Maybe it would be sexually gratifying for him? Maybe he would feel like more of a man knowing he had me instead of the others? I don't know. 

Yes, I do feel guilty about all of this SEX now that I am older but the past is the past. Not much I can change about it. 

I don't believe my husband's number of 2 because he also did not hesitate on having sex with me within a couple weeks of knowing me. I feel like a man at age 32 who has only been with 2 would have waited. I could be wrong. 

And I have no intention on lying to my spouse about anything! But I also can't fix a past lie from when we were just boyfriend/girlfriend.

I come from Kentucky, moved here to Cali in 2014. Nobody around here knows me. As for facebook that is another story and I don't know how I can control that now that all of my info is available.*


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Marriage changes things from only looking out for yourself to looking out for your spouse and the marriage as well. All of this has to be considered a package deal or your marriage will suffer. You are so young and new to marriage, please start off by doing your very best to be honest and safe with your husband and expecting him to be the same with you. Starting off with deception, no matter how it happened is not doing you, your husband, or your marriage any good. I've been married for 35 years and my belief in this principle only deepens as I age.

You lied early on. I get that. But you can change that now. This can be a good lesson to you about why lying is a slippery slope that can create far more problems than you ever imagined.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Butterfly_Princess said:


> *First of all thankyou for all the replies. Now, I must answer some of these replies on here:
> 
> I knew my husband a year before we got married and please understand I never knew I would marry him, but I am of course glad I did.
> *


Which means you had a year to make it right, and tell him the truth before you married.

You didn't take that opportunity. I would have to assume it was because marrying him was more important to you than being honest and respecting what HE desired in a mate, whether or not you agreed with it.

Which is why I say I could never be with someone who could lie to me about something that was so important to me. It doesn't matter what the issue is: # of sex partners, religion, politics, how we want to raise our family, whatever. Whatever the topic, the fact that someone lied to get what they wanted (marriage) at the expense of what I needed (whatever that important topic would be) means that they didn't love me enough to look after my needs. They put THEIR needs ahead of MY needs. That's not love. That's selfishness. 

I know it sounds harsh, and maybe it sounds like I'm just taking pot-shots, but I implore you to look at it from another perspective/your husband's perspective.

I also think it's telling that you mention that you moved from Kentucky to California, where people wouldn't know you. Why should that make a difference, unless all you are concerned about is whether or not you can get away with your deception? Doesn't it matter to you that you have betrayed your husband about something that was important to him?

In the end, you have to decide what the definition of "love" is. If "love" just means to want something very badly or like something greatly, then I would say that is a selfish definition. 
On the other hand, I think that in real "love" that person's happiness become more important than your own. You sacrifice for that person. What parent that loves their child wouldn't sacrifice themselves for their survival? Think of the stereotype of a man sacrificing himself for his wife against an attacker. That's the kind of love spouses should have for each other. 
Is that the kind of love your lie represents? I don't think so, which is why I could not be with someone who would lie to me about such a critical issue.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Wolfman1968 said:


> Well, I'm going to disagree with you on this one point. She lied to him. That's dishonorable.
> 
> 
> The point of marriage is to find a compatible partner. Some people don't care at all about prior experience. Some people care a great deal. Both are entitled to their opinions, and have the right to find a compatible spouse that makes them both happy.
> ...


In most cases, I don't think this is nearly so much about high number/low number people as it is about different acceptable degrees of privacy. If someone doesn't want to divulge such information, it should be made clear. Up front. And if that makes the other partner uncomfortable, then guess what, this is only the beginning of things that aren't going to work out.

The worst scenario is what often rears its ugly head. The private person chooses to lie, to tell the partner what they want to hear, rather than be honest and tell them they're not comfortable with it or answer the question. This is just simply dead-to-rights wrong in my book. If a partner feels the need to know about such things, there may be severe compatibility issues over privacy. It's way too easy to think this is about sex and being prudish. It could be, but in many cases, it's not.

If you're a "private" person regarding such matters, please respect the feelings of the person who is expecting (and hopefully offering) transparency. The power is in the hands of the more-private person in such a relationship, and it's unfair to take advantage of that (by pretending to be open when you're not). The truly transparent person has no place to hide.

My advice to the OP? She should have a talk with her husband, reference back to when they met, when they had sex pretty quickly into the relationship, and suggest that he didn't really believe she'd only had two partners, and tell the truth. I think giving the husband credit for seeing through the ruse will help. Tactical advice.


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## Butterfly_Princess (Nov 17, 2019)

Butterfly_Princess said:


> posted second time by accident. See above post





Wolfman1968 said:


> Which means you had a year to make it right, and tell him the truth before you married.
> 
> You didn't take that opportunity. I would have to assume it was because marrying him was more important to you than being honest and respecting what HE desired in a mate, whether or not you agreed with it.


I agree. I wanted to forget about who I was and I wanted a new life. So yes, it was all about me. I knew that telling him the truth would be a KILLER for him, plus I didn't want the relationship to end between us. 

So yea, thankyou for the brutal ugly honesty.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Butterfly_Princess said:


> *
> 
> And I have no intention on lying to my spouse about anything! But I also can't fix a past lie from when we were just boyfriend/girlfriend.
> .*



Yes, you can.

You CAN fix a past lie by telling the truth now. Every time you retell the lie, or let him think your lie was the truth, you lie again. So when you say you have "no intention of lying to my spouse", that's not true. Because you continue to persist in the lie.

And you CAN fix a past lie. Tell the truth now. You just can't fix it without consequences, which I personally think that's what this is really all about. You just don't want the consequences. And therefore avoiding consequences is more important to you than being honest about something so important to your husband. Which is why I said your claim to love him seems like a selfish love to me.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Butterfly_Princess said:


> I agree. I wanted to forget about who I was and I wanted a new life. So yes, it was all about me. I knew that telling him the truth would be a KILLER for him, plus I didn't want the relationship to end between us.
> 
> So yea, thankyou for the brutal ugly honesty.


Oh... I'm going to like this one.:smile2:


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Butterfly_Princess said:


> I agree. I wanted to forget about who I was and I wanted a new life. So yes, it was all about me. *I knew that telling him the truth would be a KILLER for him*, plus I didn't want the relationship to end between us.
> 
> So yea, thankyou for the brutal ugly honesty.


Is there a reason you believe the part I bolded? Because I haven't yet seen it in your posts. You may be making assumptions that aren't true. There might be some short-term pain coming your way, and his, but long term I think it possible things could work out very well. Especially, as I mentioned previously, if you put the right spin on it. By that I am not suggesting telling anything that isn't the truth!!! But it's quite likely the reason he asked is because a few things don't quite add up right. It could be more of a curiosity thing. It might even be exciting figuring out who each of you really married. It could be downright scary. But you've got so much more to potentially gain, and so much less to potentially lose, if you get the air cleared sooner than later.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

I also agree with the timing of the question, being judged is taking the front seat, but it could have been a trigger for him with his prior marriage. And at a time of intimacy, when the bonding of a time for him was at his greatest so he asked you at the time of your love making. Understand this you were engaged in a act of loving bonding, you lied and continued the act so you could enjoy the moment as you said, and the deceit you did while in the moment of passion for each other. 

Your white lie, is your justification for not wanting to hurt him, is BS. And if you can do this at of time of your greatest moments of bonding, you Failed the Test. And you will continue to justify all other lies in the future because of not wanting to hurt him. And to you does it matter how many people your husband has been with? It must! because you already said you don't believe him. So your justification to keep the truth from him is only self serving.

You need to come clean on your own integrity, because from your stance if having to ask this question shows you lack in that department. I can almost see it coming the trainwreck, of you one day having an argument with him as throwing you amount of partners at him to crush him. You are a married woman now start acting like one, so your husband can treat you like one.

Lying will always destroy a marriage.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

snerg said:


> What other stuff?
> 
> I make it very clear from the start of the relationship I simply don't care how many you've been with.
> 
> ...


I think its odd that you assume that its anything to do with being intimidated. Its really not. Also odd that you assume that those who haven't had many partners aren't HD or interested in sex. Also not true, but they choose to only have sex while in a serious relationship or marriage. They will have had opportunities for casual sex but choose not to take them. Also odd that you assume that those who have had lots of casual sex will always be more experienced and therefore better at sex, also not true. 

As for the lying part, this thread is about lying to her husband. Lies are wrong no matter what its about.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

minimalME said:


> I'm totally fine with it limiting my choices. Accepting and respecting the preferences of others isn't troublesome for me at all.
> 
> If I meet someone who wants to marry a woman with x amount of partners, I don't have a problem ending the relationship.
> 
> But I do not have to explain myself.


Those who see sex as something for marriage or a very serious relationship only, and therefore have had very few partners, and want the same in a spouse, are also greatly limiting their choices. Believe me, guys like that aren't very common, especially when you get older.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Butterfly_Princess said:


> *First of all thankyou for all the replies. Now, I must answer some of these replies on here:
> 
> I knew my husband a year before we got married and please understand I never knew I would marry him, but I am of course glad I did. The first time he asked me the "HOW MANY GUYS" question was the first month we were together. I told him 2, and I told him 2 because that was what I would say for any guy who asked me. 2 is a simple number. I also have names for those 2, David and Jason.
> 
> ...


I don't think one person here has commented in judgment on your count. If you feel guilty about your count that is on you. What everyone is saying is be truthful. You say you have no intention of lying but you are lying. Having secrets in marriage is like a cancer, it rots the marriage from the inside. People may argue that he shouldn't but he obviously cares about this, maybe because he knows that you are not being honest with him. Are David and Jason even real? I suspect you had pretty active lifestyle if you had a ready made story, which is why I suspect you are hesitant to tell the truth now. Meaning this is going to be a big swing from how you presented your history. 

What happened with your husbands first wife? I hope it didn't involve her cheating because you lying to him is probably going to trigger stuff. 

What's your deal? May I ask why now you seem guilty about it? This is what I don't understand, your history is who you are, why are you hiding yourself from the one person you are supposed to be most open with? It's interesting that you state very plainly that you planed to lie and that until there was a serious relationship with this guy you had no problem with that. Meaning the problem wasn't starting the relationship on a lie but having the nature of the relationship change. 

But that says something about you doesn't it? When you start relationships even friendships by lying in anyway you automatically taint them. You never give the relationship a chance to be built on honesty, so you always have this feeling that if only the person knew the real you then they wouldn't be friends with you. That means all your relationships are built without the foundation of trust. I am not talking about trust of them for you, though once the lie is exposed there is that. I am talking about the lack of trust that they can be a true friend to you for who you are completely, the good and the bad. Is there some religious background going on here? What were you getting away from?

As far as his quickly being with you maybe he felt like he waited for his first wife and it wasn't worth it and decided to change. Which would have signaled that maybe he wouldn't have cared as much. However unfortunately now you have the lie to deal with. 

Look marriage is about trust, and love takes risks. You should tell him because even though it may hurt him you being big enough to come clean will shape his opinion of you. There is a difference from being told you were lied to by the one who did it, and finding out you were lied to from someone else. 

One more thing, I hope it's only you history that you are holding back form your husband, and not your sexual "enthusiasm" out of some misguided attempt to seem pure of chased or something. That is really the worst thing you can do to a man. If he feels like you were more open and willing with someone besides himself that is an almost impossible thing to recover from. He will ever feel like he was a safe choice chosen for his utility.

You have some work to do.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Butterfly_Princess said:


> I knew that telling him the truth would be a KILLER for him.



Hi BP and welcome to TAM,

There are a lot of threads on the forum about situations just like yours and from both male and female point of view.

For your situation I think you have a couple of things working in your favor and a couple things not.

2 Good Things: Your marriage is short and you have no kids

2 Bad Things: You live the lie and "truth would be a killer for him"


If he is the insecure type you could very well crush him.


I think your present circumstance gives you the opportunity to "fess up" very early in the relationship and get that monkey off your back. If you were 10 years in with 2 kids
I would likely advise you to take it to the grave.

You have no better opportunity than right now to sit him down ...... look him in the eye...... and say


" I love you .... you are the man I always wanted. I want to share our lives together in every way possible ...there is a lie I told you to protect myself ... and now I want to share something with you ...."


Let things happen as they may ...... I bet you will have a couple tough days and then everything will start going back to normal and you will feel much better.


If you get judged by him and are made to feel "less than" .... then you know that perhaps he isn't the man for you in the end.


Make sure he understands that this is the only lie you told him .....and there is nothing else in the closet.



Hey ...... and you never know ......he might get turned on like crazy.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> I think its odd that you assume that its anything to do with being intimidated. Its really not. Also odd that you assume that those who haven't had many partners aren't HD or interested in sex. Also not true, but they choose to only have sex while in a serious relationship or marriage. They will have had opportunities for casual sex but choose not to take them. Also odd that you assume that those who have had lots of casual sex will always be more experienced and therefore better at sex, also not true.
> 
> As for the lying part, this thread is about lying to her husband. Lies are wrong no matter what its about.


I think you're reading way more into my answer than need be.

You're taking my answer about me out of the context of what was asked - which was why even ask about numbers.

Perhaps I could have written this a bit clearer.
My point was, that for me, I'm not intimidated by numbers.
I'm not talking about people that make choices as to whom they have sex with. I'm talking about me and my experience (in regards to the question of why ask about numbers)
I don't care how many partners you've had.
Therefore, there wouldn't be a need to lie.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Butterfly_Princess said:


> *
> I come from Kentucky, moved here to Cali in 2014. Nobody around here knows me. As for facebook that is another story and I don't know how I can control that now that all of my info is available.*


 When the truth boils to the surface, and it will, every day that you held on to those lies will be another sledgehammer blow to his soul. Every day that he knows you COULD have told him the truth, but didn't, will be held against you. You will pay the piper either by him finding out or you rotting from the inside keeping your lies.
"To protect him"? That's a real peach. You are protecting him from you and what you caused by lying. That's a total self-serving load of tripe and if you honestly believe that, then you had best stop lying to yourself as well as him. Your best option is to come clean ASAP ... simple as that.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Some people don't care at all about previous partners, for others it is a huge deal. Since I personally don't care at all (unless it *directly* affects things now like diseases) I find it difficult to understand those for whom it does matter. Still I have to accept that they exist. 

It is unfortunate that society has a stigma against women having a lot of partners. For me it would be a bit of a plus because it would tend to indicate a woman who enjoyed and sought-out sex - far better IMHO than one who doesn't like sex.

I understand your lying early on. Now - I guess its difficult to know why he is asking. Is he fairly sexually adventurous? Watches porn with you? Maybe he is trying to find an excuse to get out of *his* lie

OR - maybe not. Maybe his number really is 2, due to lack of interest or lack of opportunity. 

I'm really sorry you are in this mess. I don't think you got here intentionally. I think all things considered, since you are happily married, I'd let the buried past remain that way. 




Butterfly_Princess said:


> *First of all thankyou for all the replies. Now, I must answer some of these replies on here:
> 
> I knew my husband a year before we got married and please understand I never knew I would marry him, but I am of course glad I did. The first time he asked me the "HOW MANY GUYS" question was the first month we were together. I told him 2, and I told him 2 because that was what I would say for any guy who asked me. 2 is a simple number. I also have names for those 2, David and Jason.
> 
> ...


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

uhtred said:


> Some people don't care at all about previous partners, for others it is a huge deal. Since I personally don't care at all (unless it *directly* affects things now like diseases) I find it difficult to understand those for whom it does matter. Still I have to accept that they exist.
> 
> It is unfortunate that society has a stigma against women having a lot of partners. For me it would be a bit of a plus because it would tend to indicate a woman who enjoyed and sought-out sex - far better IMHO than one who doesn't like sex.
> 
> ...


Or he is just very discerning. I have had a total of three partners, yet am very interested, and had unending opportunity. My wife has had over 30x the number of partners as I have, yet I have had sex more times in my life than she has in hers, and quite frankly, I am better at it than she is. At least in my experience, partner count does not translate into anything other than a different kind of discernment. For me, the biggest drawback to her partner count is that it removes any sense of partner side validation or specialness, or ego boost. Fortunately I do not need any of that to enjoy sex with her.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Butterfly_Princess said:


> my husband has told me that he was only with 1 woman before he married his first wife. I have never truly believed this!


I got married for the first time at 33. My sexual experiences were in low numbers, not only just having 3 partners, but the number of incidents probably totaled less than 15.

The number of partners would, to me, be irrelevant. However, how I compared to those partners could potentially be very destructive. I felt inadequate because my wife was a "sexual success" and I wasn't.

My wife didn't lie to me about it, ever. She told me about her promiscuity. I was a naive young christian convert who believed God could do anything, and that He would make our marriage good by His grace and His lordship upon our lives.

Don't get me wrong, I don't blame God for it, I know it was my own insecurities which made it awful. Her unfavorable comparisons of me to affair partners wrecked our sexual life. I couldn't handle it, I felt lower than a whale's belly when I would come to our bed.

I think your belief that your husband also lied to you is unfounded. If he is telling you the truth, then I would advise you to seek a professional counselor about how to bring the truth into your marriage.

I think you will pay a high penalty for the secret. Only you can decide whether to "tell" or "not tell". @JustTheWife has worthwhile experience to share.



Butterfly_Princess said:


> I feel like a man at age 32 who has only been with 2 would have waited. I could be wrong.


In my case, you would have been wrong. For me, I was "hungry" and the offer of sex was too much of a temptation.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

You should respect your H, and answer any question honestly, to the best of your recollection.

However, he also should know about the "rule of three".


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

OP,

Its tough to advise you because from what I can see you are in a lose-lose situation of your own making. If you tell him its more than two guys, he is most likely going to totally flip out and ask you all sorts of questions about the guys, what you did, their size etc. etc. Being honest people with a low number don't understand how little that those of us with high numbers remember about former lovers. I mean we remember...but specific minute details are tough to recall, at least for me they are. Unless they were exceptional in some way, and do you really want to share that? That would only further feed the insecurity.

I do think you should tell him, if you don't tell him he will likely badger you about for years until you get annoyed and tell him anyway, and then it will be much worse. So in short I say tell him, and be apologetic because you did mislead him, then hope for the best. Thats all I got.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

What if one day you go back to your home state for an event, like a wedding or something similar, and he starts talking to people and it somehow becomes apparent to him that you had more boyfriends than you admitted to.

It will be way worse if he finds out you tried to hide it.

I think you should tell him how it came about that you lied about this early in the relationship and that you've felt extremely guilty about it as your relationship progressed and feel like he deserves only truth from you and then tell him. He will be upset but at the same time it might be a good sign long term that you don't want any lies between you.

Honestly, if its 2 or 4 or 6, I can't see that changing how he thinks of you, but if it is 25, it might.

Better tell him he is the best one by far anyway for good measure.


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

If I had to guess, he asked you during sex because you are good at it. I take it his experience is less than yours. Possibly substantially less. The timing of your questions tells me you're good at it (at least from his limited experience), and you threw something on him that prompted him to ask at that moment. He was saying in his mind,..... geez, her experience seems to exceed mine, not compare with it. She's pretty good at this!  .........and was comfortable enough to just ask you outright.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

colingrant said:


> If I had to guess, he asked you during sex because you are good at it. I take it his experience is less than yours. Possibly substantially less. The timing of your questions tells me you're good at it (at least from his limited experience), and you threw something on him that prompted him to ask at that moment. He was saying in his mind,..... geez, her experience seems to exceed mine, not compare with it. She's pretty good at this!  .........and was comfortable enough to just ask you outright.


This is logic I never really understood. I say just enjoy it. Who cares how she got good? I literally want to send a wrist watch to my current girlfriend's ex-boyfriend. I wouldn't tell her that! Sometimes people meet a lover that awakens things or gets them to try things they never did before, and they carry those things forward. With that said all of this is moot. The OP's husband clearly feels differently.


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## MapMan (Dec 11, 2015)

colingrant said:


> If I had to guess, he asked you during sex because you are good at it. I take it his experience is less than yours. Possibly substantially less. The timing of your questions tells me you're good at it (at least from his limited experience), and you threw something on him that prompted him to ask at that moment. He was saying in his mind,..... geez, her experience seems to exceed mine, not compare with it. She's pretty good at this!  .........and was comfortable enough to just ask you outright.


This is what I'm thinking, the old "where did you learn that"? Ultimately, he may not care, but you are aware that if you don't tell him now, you will live with the feeling that your husband wouldn't find the real you lovable. I don't see how that can't color the marriage long term. Also, you never know when the two of you will be back in KY or he hears something from a mutual friend, acquaintance, etc. Old partners sometimes just love to tell a husband what a fun date their wife once was. 

I don't think that you can compare a man's count to a woman's count simply because many men care. Consider if in his past, he had had a promiscuous time where he had sex with many men, but it's now "behind" him. How would you feel if you found out if he kept that from you?

If you tell him now, you give him the freedom to choose you. Otherwise, even if he never finds out, you will always wonder if he would have or not and you may grow to resent him. At that point if you have kids, maybe it will be the tiniest of extra weight on the marriage that brings it down. 

He may be OK with it once he knows you are all in for him and are not keeping a part of yourself secret.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

MapMan said:


> Consider if in his past, he had had a promiscuous time where he had sex with many men, but it's now "behind" him. How would you feel if you found out if he kept that from you?


She'd likely ask, "Just how many men have you had "behind" you. The proper answer to "how many partners" is "that's none of your business and if you have a problem with that, let me know now." I think I'm going to invent a chip that women can have implanted that registers the number of partners. Ill than sell a scanner that will tell the man the number. I got the idea from this thread, OBD automotive scanners, and the vehicles mileage gauge.


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## MapMan (Dec 11, 2015)

VladDracul said:


> She'd likely ask, "Just how many men have you had "behind" you. The proper answer to "how many partners" is "that's none of your business and if you have a problem with that, let me know now." I think I'm going to invent a chip that women can have implanted that registers the number of partners. Ill than sell a scanner that will tell the man the number. I got the idea from this thread, OBD automotive scanners, and the vehicles mileage gauge.


"None of your business" is an acceptable answer because it is not a lie. 

"None of your business" = I am ashamed of the answer. But we all have things from our past that we are ashamed of, some worse than others, some meaningful to us and no one else, some meaningful to some but not others. 

We can avoid the whole judgement thing by framing it as a question about being truthful to your spouse.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

MapMan said:


> VladDracul said:
> 
> 
> > She'd likely ask, "Just how many men have you had "behind" you. The proper answer to "how many partners" is "that's none of your business and if you have a problem with that, let me know now." I think I'm going to invent a chip that women can have implanted that registers the number of partners. Ill than sell a scanner that will tell the man the number. I got the idea from this thread, OBD automotive scanners, and the vehicles mileage gauge.<a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>
> ...


Actually "none of your business" could mean "I know you're super insecure so I am not going to tell you" or it can mean "I had a lovely time with all of my previous lovers but I don't want to tell you that because it'll set you off" or it can mean "my previous relationships hold a special place in my life and I don't want to share them with you just like I won't be sharing what we do together with anyone else". See, it's not all about shame.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Moderator Note:

Due to the nature of this thread, I'll shut it down if this turns into a woman shaming party. 

Keep to the OP.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

With you already telling H multiple times it was only two others, perhaps you may consider giving yourself a mulligan, don't say anything more, let it go.

And your takeaway can be, in the future don't lie to an SO you love and value, as he's shown he loves and values you.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

OP, I'd be careful about manipulating your H for his own good. 
That could come back to bite a big chunk out of your relationship.

He should not have asked.....What he really wants to learn he can learn by your behavior. 

It's good practice to "Watch how they act, not what they say."

"If you can't understand why someone is doing something, look at the consequences of their actions, whatever they might be, and then infer the motivations from their consequences" JP.
What are his motivations??


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MapMan said:


> "None of your business" is an acceptable answer because it is not a lie.


Agreed because it shows the mindset. Which is not wrong but may be different then others have and that is what you are tying to figure out.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Butterfly_Princess said:


> *First of all thankyou for all the replies. Now, I must answer some of these replies on here:
> 
> I knew my husband a year before we got married and please understand I never knew I would marry him, but I am of course glad I did. The first time he asked me the "HOW MANY GUYS" question was the first month we were together. I told him 2, and I told him 2 because that was what I would say for any guy who asked me. 2 is a simple number. I also have names for those 2, David and Jason.
> 
> ...


Why dont you tell him the bit I have marked in red and see where the chips fall. My only question is what else he would then ask you. What did he ask you about the two you mentioned ? If it gets creepy then ask him why he wants to know. I agree that if you tell him the bit I highlighted, you still have a chance if he is worth staying with. If it doesnt work out then you do not want to be with him anyway.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

uhtred said:


> Some people don't care at all about previous partners, for others it is a huge deal. Since I personally don't care at all (unless it *directly* affects things now like diseases) I find it difficult to understand those for whom it does matter. Still I have to accept that they exist.
> 
> It is unfortunate that society has a stigma against women having a lot of partners. For me it would be a bit of a plus because it would tend to indicate a woman who enjoyed and sought-out sex - far better IMHO than one who doesn't like sex.
> 
> ...


It matters to some of us because we want a partner who sees sex and marriage in the same way as we do. We don't see it as something casual or something that we want to have with a stranger or someone we barely know, but to have with someone we love and are committed to. 

As for what you said about her husband, I am not sure how you can't understand that some men and women don't have few partners due to lack of opportunity or lack of interest, far from it, but because they value sex too much to have it with someone who they aren't in a committed relationship with, or for some, are married to. They use self control and determination to wait for the right person and right time.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I just don't get why some here think its ok to lie and deceive your spouse, and that its somehow wrong for a spouse to expect the truth from their husband or wife on such an important matter. Lying is the slippery slope for a marriage.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I think fudging numbers is totally OK.

What I don't think is OK is misleading your partner about your life before - meaning that if you now claim to be a virgin and it's important to both of you in your relationship, and you were very promiscuous before, then you have a big values problem. I actually talked to a guy once that insisted that his wife be a virgin... which is bad enough, but he was very promiscuous before and claimed to be a "born again" virgin... only he left out the "born again" part to his fiancee. That he also refused to sleep with before marriage because... virgin.

Or if you have a fetish that is core to your sexuality, or you've had key things happen or trauma that inform your future relationships, then they should probably know it at some abstract level of detail. Like "I'll never do X, and maybe we should talk about that." 

I also think your partner should know if you've done porn or something they could discover on their own - or have pointed out to them. I've seen that happen (I think here, actually), too. Same goes for STDs.

But numbers? Everybody fudges those. I literally don't know my number.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Marduk said:


> I think fudging numbers is totally OK.
> 
> What I don't think is OK is misleading your partner about your life before - meaning that if you now claim to be a virgin and it's important to both of you in your relationship, and you were very promiscuous before, then you have a big values problem. I actually talked to a guy once that insisted that his wife be a virgin... which is bad enough, but he was very promiscuous before and claimed to be a "born again" virgin... only he left out the "born again" part to his fiancee. That he also refused to sleep with before marriage because... virgin.
> 
> ...


By fudging you mean lying? Honestly no, not everyone lies about numbers. If you can't remember exactly surely you can to the nearest 10 or so?


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Butterfly,

The lie should have been confessed before the marriage. 

If your H would not have married you because your number was too high then that was his right.

So please let him know what the truth is, marriage is supposed to be based on trust and honesty. 

The sooner you tell the better don't have children with him without full disclosure or it will feel like entrapment. 

You also have the right to question his story and you should.

I suspect he found you to more sexually experienced than just 2 which is why he asked, a man is aware of the smallest sexual details and often keeps a mental diary. 

Did you also tell him that sex with the 2 others was not frequent or varied?

What is your actual estimate for the number of former sex partners


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

A couple of observations after reading this thread in one sitting...

1) I think a lot of guys have some subconscious process that compares “number of partners disclosed” vs how they act in bed. If you say you had 2 partners but have sex like a porn star a guy will think a) no woman with two partners total and no interest in porn has sex like this *is she lying?* b) this/these guy/s she was with taught her everything she knows *now I feel insecure*

2) People do pass on available sex. Someone else mentioned “missing out” by exercising restraint/discernment but some people want to miss out on STDs, an unwanted pregnancy or that you can’t take it back or it would hurt someone (is slept with buddy’s girl).

3) Misrepresenting your number is no different than had your husband misrepresented his credit score before you got married.

4) Beating him up for asking when he did (while odd) is blame-shifting and not relevant.

5) Honestly, if you just tell him, odds are he’ll freak out in the short term but it will eventually blow over. He’ll probably have more uncomfortable questions but that is normal. If he walks out then you know you’re with a man who can’t process forgiveness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

The most important aspect of this is: better to find out that you are incurably incompatible before having children.

Tell him the truth. He may freak out. He may divorce you. If he does, that is the BEST thing that could happen to you. Then you can go find a man who thinks that your number is a good thing. Heck, I liked the idea that my wife was not a virgin before we got married. I figured that she tried a bunch of other guys but wanted to spend the rest of her life with me. I thought a number higher than 2 was a plus and a compliment to me. Go find a guy like that.

Much worse to have 2 or 3 or more young kids with him and then he finds out and then he divorces you. That is messy messy messy. Divorce with no kids after short marriage is clean. The guy who takes your "number" as a compliment will not mind a divorce in your past. Relax. This is going to work out for you. Might not work out with your current husband, but that is OK.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> It matters to some of us because we want a partner who sees sex and marriage in the same way as we do. We don't see it as something casual or something that we want to have with a stranger or someone we barely know, but to have with someone we love and are committed to.
> 
> As for what you said about her husband, I am not sure how you can't understand that some men and women don't have few partners due to lack of opportunity or lack of interest, far from it, but because they value sex too much to have it with someone who they aren't in a committed relationship with, or for some, are married to. They use self control and determination to wait for the right person and right time.


I don't think it's right to say that someone who's had more sexual partners values sex less than someone who's had just one. They value is differently. And I think there are people out there who have no issue with their partner's past; all that matters is the new beginning and their future together. There will be people who have been celibate prior to marriage, knowingly marrying someone who had a great amount of experience, and the celibate person is fine with it. And carrying this further, some of the celibate folk in such a relationship don't care about knowing too.

The main problem with this thread, and every single other thread involving lies and deception through omission, is that it's just 100% dead to rights wrong to take advantage of someone believing you to be truthful, because you've implied an openness, a lack of having privacy issues, that's not the case. 

I don't know when the right time to have that privacy talk is, but I know for sure the answer is not "never." If couples understood this before marriage, I believe there'd be a lot fewer problems. I don't know about your church, but in mine, the pre-marriage counseling didn't even touch on this.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/love-lies-and-conflict/201807/small-lies-often-lead-big-lies-in-relationships

The article above talks about lying. 

The main message I got from reading it is that lies perpetuate themselves. When there are lies, it become easier to have more lies. The more you lie, the worse you feel about yourself. 

And the reverse is true, that the more honest your are, the better you feel about yourself. That being honest with your spouse should bring you closer together.

Telling your boyfriend that you only had two partners when you first me was a fairly significant lie. You knew how important this was to him. Not telling him the truth sometime later (much before marriage) was a huge lie. 

I don't know how he will react to the truth, but I think you owe it to yourself, to him and to your relationship, to be honest.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I hope she post an update no matter which way she goes ..... I'll admit I'm curious. 

I'm not sure if I'm more curious to hear her reasons of her choice or just to watch the opposite party explode.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I haven't read more than page 1 so far.

From my perspective, it is important to tell him the truth. The primary reason is when he finds out from another source it will be hugely disasterous to the marriage. He will understand you intentionally lied to him multiple times about something you knew could be important to him. Why lie about it if it weren't potentially something he would end the relationship over? So, he will know you will lie to him to get an outcome you prefer, ignoring what he would want.

And he probably will find out. Someone will say something at a party or family event. You'll bump into a former lover at a restaurant and your husband will notice your reaction. He will put the pieces together. He'll see your timeline doesn't work. You'll contradict yourself in a minor detail in some story and he will realize something is off.

When he finds out, trust will be destroyed. He will wonder what else is lies. He will feel that the entire marriage is based on lies. This will be a much bigger problem than whatever the facts are of your history. It will be a problem of him seeing you as a liar, someone he cannot trust. Everything will be viewed in that light, and he will question everything. What would have been nothing will now be suspicious. Your marriage will be poisoned.

A secondary reason is that this lie is a barrier against true open honesty and true intimacy in your relationship. It already affects your relationship.

It is far better he hear it from you than either figure it out himself or be told by someone else.

He deserved the right to make a decision about who to marry based on truthful information.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Diana7 said:


> By fudging you mean lying? Honestly no, not everyone lies about numbers. If you can't remember exactly surely you can to the nearest 10 or so?


I guess what I'm saying is a white lie is OK. If your number is, say, 8, but you say 5... does it matter?

If your number is 20, and you say 10... does it matter?

Also, does everybody remember everything? If you forgot someone you hooked up with once, and then remember 2 years into your marriage, do you make a big deal about it?

To me, this falls into "do these jeans make my ass look big" category. White lies - with the 100% intention not to mislead but also not to hurt - are ok. Things that indicate your values are not what you pretend them to be are not ok.

For example, I have never asked my wife how many guys she's been with, and I honestly don't want to know. But I sure did ask if she's ever cheated on anyone, and I sure would be upset about it if she lied to me about that.

Besides, numbers always seemed weird to me. If you have sex once with 10 randos, that 10 sexual encounters. If you've been in 2 LTRs, sure you've only had sex with 2 people, but you've probably had sex hundreds or thousands of times with them - and probably pushed the envelope with it, too. So why are the 2 LTRs better if what you're worried about is someone's experience level?


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

To me, this hard line about 'honesty' when it comes to sexual histories is complete bull****.

The details do not matter, and the digging is nothing more than gratuitous, morbid, inappropriate curiosity.

One can be 'honest' without discussing it at all.

Everyone is entitled to their preferences. 

I don't want to get involved with someone who's been married 3 times. And the fact that they have been married multiple times is all the information I need to make a choice for myself. The details are irrelevant.

Single people who want to get to know someone who has x number of partners would do themselves a favor by putting that on their profiles - or making it known before even meeting someone.




Marduk said:


> ... does it matter?


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

minimalME said:


> To me, this hard line about 'honesty' when it comes to sexual histories is complete bull****.
> 
> The details do not matter, and the digging is nothing more than gratuitous, morbid, inappropriate curiosity.
> 
> ...


I think her husband did make it known that the number is important TO HIM. That is why she lied.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

*NO*

Trust me because I have dealt with these sort of (white) lies. It opens up a can of worms.. 

Its your past.. He is ins't your pastor, priest or therapist. 

He isn't asking you because he is so interested in why your so good in bed after 2 partners.. He realizes you are pretty good around the machine shop and is wondering how you learned how to use those tools after only 2 visits.. 

You are going to tell him stories that will sound whorish and then he will paint that picture of you to YOU and you will NOT like it.. 

I've been there with my wife only she felt it was good to tell me these stories of her own free will and accord.. No matter how much I told her stop,, STFU.. I don't need to hear this.. I am not your priest, I am your husband.. I want to bury my head in the sand when it comes to this. Sadly she just couldn't get out of her own way..

End result.. She now tells me things she never did or had happen and I have to remind her she told me the story about X,Y, or Z about something like that happening.. Her response is Wow, I told you too much. I should have STFU.. 

And yes it can get heated sometimes and I paint that picture and she then comments sounds like your calling me a *****.. My response is, I am just telling you, your stories you told me.. If that is the picture your getting then that is on you.. 

Marriage is about trust and Truth but you don't have to tell them everything..

As I tell my wife if I had one gay experience as as young man because I was somehow confused in my sexuality at that time.. But then realized after that it wasn't for me.. The last thing I would EVER do is bring it up.. No matter how intoxicated I was.. I would never bring it up..Unless I wanted to give you the impression I was gay or bisexual. 

He will forever wonder what other stuff you have not told him.. Trust me..


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Marduk said:


> I guess what I'm saying is a white lie is OK. If your number is, say, 8, but you say 5... does it matter?
> 
> If your number is 20, and you say 10... does it matter?
> 
> ...


I don't think it has to do with experience level. I think it has to do with morality. Some people believe sex is a sacred thing. That it should only happen with someone you are committed to.

So being committed to 2 or 3 people in a persons life is fairly easy to understand. Being committed to say 10 people (before the age of 20) tells a story in regards to how sacred sex is to you.

I agree that the actual number doesn't really matter once it gets high enough to show that you treat sex as something fun to do that doesn't require a huge commitment.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Yes - that's true.

And the choice is hers whether or not to discuss it further.

They're married, and the damage is done. 

Opening it up for discussion to correct the lie - would it make the situation better? I think not.

Running into people who're going to blather on about their sexual exploits with her? Seriously? Besides Marduk, how often does that happen?

And even it were, she still doesn't have to explain. 

An example from my own life is that my ex-husband, (whom I was in a 20 year sexless marriage with), would go to work and look at pornography. He wasn't open about it. He didn't look at it at home. Never mentioned it until we were separated. He was deceitful. He lied by omission for who knows how long.

The details of his behavior were irrelevant, and I didn't ask one question about it. It didn't matter, and it wasn't going to help our situation.



SadSamIAm said:


> I think her husband did make it known that the number is important TO HIM. That is why she lied.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

MapMan said:


> "None of your business" is an acceptable answer because it is not a lie.
> 
> "None of your business" = I am ashamed of the answer. But we all have things from our past that we are ashamed of, some worse than others, some meaningful to us and no one else, some meaningful to some but not others.
> 
> We can avoid the whole judgement thing by framing it as a question about being truthful to your spouse.



Why not just plead the Fifth?

The lack of transparency demonstrated in such a response indicates a desire to be less than truthful and basically says to the other spouse that they frankly don't give a damn about what they need to know to feel secure in a relationship.

Not saying that a "Play by Play" accounting is necessary, but a meaningful response with pertinent detail certainly is not an unreasonable request in a relationship.

My wife knows how many girls I with with before her, and I know how many guys she was with before me. She knows about the "skeleton" in my closet, because she was there while the skeleton was still rattling around. If a relationship can't withstand transparency, then it isn't much of a relationship at all and will not withstand the test of time.

In regards to the OP, unless she was a public utility or a "Business Woman", why could her relationship not withstand honesty?

IMO, the real problem is not the number, it is the lie.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

SadSamIAm said:


> I think her husband did make it known that the number is important TO HIM. That is why she lied.


Let me give you an example from my own life that I'm still uncomfortable with - because I lied to my wife about it.

She asked if I've ever been in a 3-some. I said no. The real answer is yes. 

My rationale was that:

1. it was a long time ago, and I don't want her feeling insecure about how she could compete with two 20-somethings, when she's a 40-something.
2. it wasn't that good. In fact, it was complicated, stressful, and wasn't really about me at all. It was like solving two rubik's cubes, one in each hand, simultaneously.
3. it's not something I want again, and not something that I want her to think she needs to contemplate offering.

So I lied. I'm pretty sure my intentions were good. I'm pretty sure it doesn't impact our marriage, that she'll never find out (the women involved both live on another continent), and I'm pretty sure telling her would have been a net negative to her.

Still not sure I made the right call. I'm certain I'm not going to bring it up to her. It still disquiets me. But I'm certain my intention was good.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Marduk said:


> Still not sure I made the right call. I'm certain I'm not going to bring it up to her. It still disquiets me. *But I'm certain my intention was good.*


 The road to hell is paved with good intentions.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Rubix Cubed said:


> The road to hell is paved with good intentions.


Good thing I don't believe in hell. Whew! Dodged a bullet with that one.

But yes, that's what I worry about.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

minimalME said:


> Yes - that's true.
> 
> And the choice is hers whether or not to discuss it further.
> 
> ...


Sexual exploits actually WITH her? Well, a woman my wife had one of her threesomes with brought it up when we were all together once. Fortunately my wife had given me a heads up about it. Sexual exploits about her? Too many to count.

I have a feeling that the correlation between partner count and likeliness of people talking is fairly high. Not just because the more involved, the more likely someone will talk, but also it reflects a more casual attitude towards sex and it is likely that friends and participants also share the same casual attitude and so talking about it is casual as well.

In the case of my wife and, her circle of friends had no reason to think I was any different in sexual attitude than any of my wife's previous partners, so in the talk amongst themselves, there was not even a consideration of anything being off when I was around. It makes even more sense after I over heard my wife and a friend talking five years into our marriage, that my wife's number is actually very close to 100, rather than the 30 something she said when we first started dating.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I stand corrected. 

Personally, I've not had these conversations with any friends. I don't talk about sex, and neither do they. 

To me it's oversharing and inappropriate.




samyeagar said:


> Sexual exploits actually WITH her? Well, a woman my wife had one of her threesomes with brought it up when we were all together once. Fortunately my wife had given me a heads up about it. Sexual exploits about her? Too many to count.
> 
> I have a feeling that the correlation between partner count and likeliness of people talking is fairly high. Not just because the more involved, the more likely someone will talk, but also it reflects a more casual attitude towards sex and it is likely that friends and participants also share the same casual attitude and so talking about it is casual as well.
> 
> In the case of my wife and, her circle of friends had no reason to think I was any different in sexual attitude than any of my wife's previous partners, so in the talk amongst themselves, there was not even a consideration of anything being off when I was around. It makes even more sense after I over heard my wife and a friend talking five years into our marriage, that my wife's number is actually very close to 100, rather than the 30 something she said when we first started dating.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Marduk said:


> Let me give you an example from my own life that I'm still uncomfortable with - because I lied to my wife about it.
> 
> She asked if I've ever been in a 3-some. I said no. The real answer is yes.
> 
> ...


But if *she* brought it up again, you'd still lie again? If she decided it was time to share something from her past, something that had brought her some guilt and time to get it off her chest, and then asked you about anything you might have done that would have required you to lie if you omitted that three-some... you'd lie again? You'd double-down or take the opportunity to come clean?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Casual Observer said:


> But if *she* brought it up again, you'd still lie again? If she decided it was time to share something from her past, something that had brought her some guilt and time to get it off her chest, and then asked you about anything you might have done that would have required you to lie if you omitted that three-some... you'd lie again? You'd double-down or take the opportunity to come clean?


Honestly, I don't know. It's something I weighed on the spot when we talked about it, and I'm not sure what I would do, or what the right thing to do there is.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Marduk said:


> Let me give you an example from my own life that I'm still uncomfortable with - because I lied to my wife about it.
> 
> She asked if I've ever been in a 3-some. I said no. The real answer is yes.
> 
> ...


I just don't get how anyone can tell such lies to the one person they are supposed to be truthful and honest with. I just couldn't do it. :crying:


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Deleted .....because I have the attention span of a 5 year old.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

minimalME said:


> To me, this hard line about 'honesty' when it comes to sexual histories is complete bull****.
> 
> The details do not matter, and the digging is nothing more than gratuitous, morbid, inappropriate curiosity.
> 
> ...


However how can anyone make an informed decision if the other person lies? If you met a man who had had 3 divorces you could then make an informed decision. If he lied and told you he had only been divorced once, you cant. If you then went on to marry him and found out afterwards what then? You would feel pretty angry I expect. Honestly is always best. Lies and deception in marriage are always damaging.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Marduk said:


> I guess what I'm saying is a white lie is OK. If your number is, say, 8, but you say 5... does it matter?
> 
> If your number is 20, and you say 10... does it matter?
> 
> ...


What matters to me is that we are honest. If there had been 10 then I would have said 10. Ifnone then none. I expect that sort of honestly from a spouse as well. I don't see this as a white lie at all, its a pretty big subject and very important for most marriages. Why lie if you are reasonably sure how many? It would also matter to me whether the sex had been in a long term relationship/marriage or with many people they barely knew, because that shows how the man sees sex and relationships/marriage. 
To lie in order to get a person to marry you is terrible, about anything not just sexual partners.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> minimalME said:
> 
> 
> > To me, this hard line about 'honesty' when it comes to sexual histories is complete bull****.
> ...


And dang it.... he would have had to split his money in half 3 times instead of once !!!!!


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Sure. It's hurtful when people don't feel safe enough to be truthful.

In the past 2 months, I've had one of my children and two of my best friends behave in deceitful ways. And then they contact me, and plug along acting like everything is normal without a word about their behavior and/or their choices.

For me, I can only decide what my response will be. I'm not gonna ask why or try to have conversations about these events.

People give what they want to give. I'm not gonna try dragging it out of anyone.

And you're right. It has made me angry. 

Being direct and honest is best. I agree with you.

Unfortunately, our interaction with one another doesn't always reflect that.




Diana7 said:


> However how can anyone make an informed decision if the other person lies? If you met a man who had had 3 divorces you could then make an informed decision. If he lied and told you he had only been divorced once, you cant. If you then went on to marry him and found out afterwards what then? You would feel pretty angry I expect. Honestly is always best. Lies and deception in marriage are always damaging.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Diana7 said:


> What matters to me is that we are honest. If there had been 10 then I would have said 10. Ifnone then none. I expect that sort of honestly from a spouse as well. I don't see this as a white lie at all, its a pretty big subject and very important for most marriages. Why lie if you are reasonably sure how many? It would also matter to me whether the sex had been in a long term relationship/marriage or with many people they barely knew, because that shows how the man sees sex and relationships/marriage.
> To lie in order to get a person to marry you is terrible, about anything not just sexual partners.


I was as honest as I could be about everything, except that, for the reasons given above. It's not something I feel great about.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

minimalME said:


> Sure. It's hurtful when people don't feel safe enough to be truthful.


I think this is interesting... 

This is something that my Fiancé says about me and I don't really know why. She says she feels safe and open with me, in every way, but I guess mostly sexually. 

I understand the words that she is saying, but I don't understand what I did to make that happen. My question is, "Why would you ever be with someone that you did not feel safe with in every way?" 

But I guess people do that.

And to the number question, when she asked me I told he no one knows that number, and I would not now or ever in the future tell her that number, not that I am 100% sure of it myself. 

It kind of pissed her off a little, but that was the deal for me.

It does not matter.

But to the OP's dilemma , I also did not lie about it, which is also wrong.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Marduk said:


> Let me give you an example from my own life that I'm still uncomfortable with - because I lied to my wife about it.
> 
> She asked if I've ever been in a 3-some. I said no. The real answer is yes.
> 
> ...


Sometimes you need to protect your spouse from yourself..

You just answered your own question.. IF it would have been a negative to her then you did the right thing..

We as adults don't need to bare our souls to clear our conscious. 
Hey had sex with my ex spouse and her sister.. Whew I feel so good clearing my chest on that.. While this other person is left in shambles thinking about the 10 times you went to visit your ex sister-in-law for whatever reason over the last X amount of years.. 

No.. 
STFU.. 

Go to therapy, go to confessional. 

No reason to hurt someone else just so you feel better.. 

Trust me again.. I went through this and it has caused NOTHING but troubles.. I know tons of stories I never wanted to know.. 
This will open up more doors and more doors. 
Nothing you ever say to clear this stuff will ever be the right words.. 

Mind you my wife stories are from over 20 years ago but to me because of some issues they might have been yesterday.. 
My wife comment anytime she tells me something she shouldn't, I don't want you to find out some other way.. You know how this stuff just ends popping up out of nowhere.. Of course I always ask how and go through all the scenarios of the impossibilities.. End result we fight.
I love her to death but we fight a lot..


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Hardtohandle said:


> Sometimes you need to protect your spouse from yourself..
> 
> You just answered your own question.. IF it would have been a negative to her then you did the right thing..
> 
> ...


Ya, my wife has been extremely explicit and detailed about her sexual past. To the point that I asked her to lighten up on me about it, unless there's a reason to talk about it.

Not because I care, but mostly because I don't want to think about it.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I'm in the "just tell him" camp. 

But, not during sex. That's just weird. I don't even understand why he would ask you then. It seems manipulative and gross. 

You've been married 5 months. There's no better time than now to just tell him. The longer you wait, the worse it will be. 

I do wonder why he cares, though. You all are in your 30s... I'd expect you both to have a past. 

The only reason I am saying you should tell him is because he specifically asked you. 

I will admit I don't fully understand why people even ask for a number. 

My H and I have been married 11 years and together over 15 years. I have no idea what his number is, and he doesn't know mine. We have literally never asked each other. I only know surface level details of his previous relationships, and it's the same for him with me. (Neither of us were previously married so previous relationships weren't that serious to us I guess.) 

I have nothing to hide. I have never felt he does either. I found it refreshing that he never asked me for any prying details and I took his lead and rolled with it and never asked him either. Here we are 15 years later. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Hardtohandle said:


> Go to therapy, go to confessional.
> 
> No reason to hurt someone else just so you feel better..


I agree.

When my wife went to visit her recently-divorced friend, I said "she may want to go to a bar and verify she is still capable of attracting male attention. You are too (capable). But you are married and she isn't. So I hope you wouldn't do what she may want to do. But if you falter and indulge, whatever you do don't tell me about it. Take it to the grave."

I agree with the advice: go dump your guilt onto someone else. Don't dump on the person you supposedly love more than anyone.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Casual Observer said:


> But if *she* brought it up again, you'd still lie again? If she decided it was time to share something from her past, something that had brought her some guilt and time to get it off her chest, and then asked you about anything you might have done that would have required you to lie if you omitted that three-some... you'd lie again? You'd double-down or take the opportunity to come clean?


What if the person asking already knows they asked before and for some reason became insecure. Maybe it was a comment made during sex. Maybe it was some odd observation they seen with you. Maybe it was their friend telling them something that sparked this question again.. 
But they know the original answer.. 

You think coming clean is going to be good ? You really, really, think so ? 

I can ONLY speak for me.. 

I would not be happy.. Everything else would be suspect.. 

Again as an example 2 other women a world away... Many years ago.. 
This isn't your next door neighbor and her sister that like to get drunk and tell stories from their past.. 

You didn't kill anyone.. Or rape anyone... 

To me, I always say to my wife.. What benefit are you getting from this ? What reaction, what outcome were you expecting from me from this.. You say you know me.. You say you know me very well. You have seen me react in the past to things like this.. I have expressed many times over I do not want to know about stuff from your past. I expressed it hurts me to hear this stuff.. 

So if you were doing this to get closer to me.. To bond with me.. To have a loving moment with me.. You Failed.. All you have done is create resentment and dislike of you.. 

I have lived through this countless times.. There was never a time I said, I am glad you told me about that or shared that with me.. Again pertaining to this topic..


Let me add in this and its more for women..

If you can't tell this story to a group of other women then its not okay to tell. 

Again knowing what I know.. 

If my wife told some of these stories to her "friends", none of them would ever leave their husbands alone with her.. And she knows it.. They wouldn't even trust her.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Holdingontoit said:


> I agree.
> 
> When my wife went to visit her recently-divorced friend, I said "she may want to go to a bar and verify she is still capable of attracting male attention. You are too (capable). But you are married and she isn't. So I hope you wouldn't do what she may want to do. But if you falter and indulge, whatever you do don't tell me about it. Take it to the grave."
> 
> I agree with the advice: go dump your guilt onto someone else. Don't dump on the person you supposedly love more than anyone.


When me and wife broke up the husband of her friend would not let her go out with my now single Girl Friend (at that time). 
His wife asked why can't I go out with her I did before when she was with him.. He said exactly.. She was in a relationship with him and I know him.. Now she is single... 

The husband knew enough about her not to let his wife go out with her..


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Holdingontoit said:


> I agree.
> 
> When my wife went to visit her recently-divorced friend, I said "she may want to go to a bar and verify she is still capable of attracting male attention. You are too (capable). But you are married and she isn't. So I hope you wouldn't do what she may want to do. But if you falter and indulge, whatever you do don't tell me about it. Take it to the grave."
> 
> I agree with the advice: go dump your guilt onto someone else. Don't dump on the person you supposedly love more than anyone.


I am of the absolute opposite opinion. I am not afraid of someone else's bull****, I am afraid of not being given all the information so I don't have full agency of my life and decisions. I reserve the right to decide if I want to deal with your bull**** or not. An authentic life is the most important thing to me, more important then any relationship even my marriage.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

kag123 said:


> But, not during sex. That's just weird. I don't even understand why he would ask you then. It seems manipulative and gross.


Assuming she knows it's important to him though then lying about your history in this manor could also be described as "manipulative and gross" as well though right?


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## MapMan (Dec 11, 2015)

minimalME said:


> To me, this hard line about 'honesty' when it comes to sexual histories is complete bull****.
> 
> The details do not matter, and the digging is nothing more than gratuitous, morbid, inappropriate curiosity.
> 
> ...


If he asked, then he signaled (and she understood) that it was important to him. Early in the relationship. 

For the record, I think it's very important. But what you or I think doesn't matter - it's what the other person feels, that matters. There are many things that if lied about before marriage, could be an issue. What if someone only pretended to be religious/atheist/vegan/apolitical/enjoy camping,etc before marriage?


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

sokillme said:


> I am of the absolute opposite opinion. I am not afraid of someone else's bull****, I am afraid of not being given all the information so I don't have full agency of my life and decisions. I reserve the right to decide if I want to deal with your bull**** or not. An authentic life is the most important thing to me, more important then any relationship even my marriage.


Yes, well, you are probably in a healthy relationship and mine is a disaster of epic proportions. So your advice is probably more helpful to someone who wants to be mentally healthy and have a relationship with their spouse based on integrity.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Yes. If you've read through the thread, I've acknowledged that it was wrong to lie.

But people do lie. 

We all lie.

People who think they don't lie are lying to themselves, as well as others.

I lied in my marriage, and I was lied to by my husband. It happens.

Each of us has to decide how to respond to that in our specific situations. But I will say that, Biblically, this is why we're commanded to love and forgive one another.

And it's hard when people post as though they're above it - because they're not. They may not lie about this specific thing, but somewhere along the way, each of us behaves in a less than noble way.




MapMan said:


> If he asked, then he signaled (and she understood) that it was important to him. Early in the relationship.
> 
> For the record, I think it's very important. But what you or I think doesn't matter - it's what the other person feels, that matters. There are many things that if lied about before marriage, could be an issue. What if someone only pretended to be religious/atheist/vegan/apolitical/enjoy camping,etc before marriage?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

minimalME said:


> Yes. If you've read through the thread, I've acknowledged that it was wrong to lie.
> 
> But people do lie.
> 
> ...


What is interesting with this thread is that OP seems to kind of agree with her husband and wish she didn't have such a high count, at least it can be inferred by her answers. 

Now maybe that is just because she feels that is what she needs to say. Or maybe she has come to believe she was with those men for the wrong reasons. This has been my personal criticism of "hook up" culture which is that that culture turns the potential of a very intimate, wonderful and giving act into a transactional one. 

This is not to say all people with active sex lives think this way. I don't think that is the case. I am talking about a specific kind of mindset where both people use sex as a way to judge their self-worth. For the men it is a kind of score card or trophy hunting activity in which they use to gauge even their masculinity. Women on the other hand seem to use it as a kind of lure to get or keep men's attention. 

IMO neither of these is healthy. I think with some maturity as well as the self confidence that comes with age and some success under you built some people really grow to regret participating in things that if they were a little more self confident they might have said no to.

This can lead to a problem were it's the actual actions that misguidedly cause shame and not the reasons behind them. 
Meaning one act done out of fear of insecurity can seem very different then the same act done out of love, fun and exploration or just to be giving. But it kind of closes them off to that act forever and their partner may end up resenting it. 

This is one if the reasons I would tell people to be weary of someone with a high count, especially if they are not open about it. I think if you have a healthy open attitude about it you are going to be more opt to talk about it (there seems to be some here who are very open and seem perfectly healthy on here for instance). However if you default to keeping it hidden that to me is a tell that something is up. 

That leads me to say that if I am correct and if OP is honest about her past and how she feels now then maybe that would be enough for him. It's a shame she wasn't sooner though.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

And I would completely understand if she felt shame about her choices.

I've written about my past on this forum, and I regret mine. But I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it, and the details are not up for public consumption.

In my mind, I wasn't part of the hookup culture. It wasn't my intention to use anyone. I just wanted to be loved.

But regardless of the motivation, the minutiae are unnecessary. 

Her original mistake was answering at all in any sort of detail.




sokillme said:


> What is interesting with this thread is that OP seems to kind of agree with her husband and wish she didn't have such a high count, at least it can be inferred by her answers.
> 
> Now maybe that is just because she feels that is what she needs to say. Or maybe she has come to believe she was with those men for the wrong reasons. This has been my personal criticism of "hook up" culture which is that that culture turns the potential of a very intimate, wonderful and giving act into a transactional one.
> 
> ...


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Holdingontoit said:


> I agree.
> 
> When my wife went to visit her recently-divorced friend, I said "she may want to go to a bar and verify she is still capable of attracting male attention. You are too (capable). But you are married and she isn't. So I hope you wouldn't do what she may want to do. * But if you falter and indulge, whatever you do don't tell me about it. Take it to the grave."*
> 
> I agree with the advice: go dump your guilt onto someone else. Don't dump on the person you supposedly love more than anyone.


So, you just gave your wife a hall pass!!!!:surprise:


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

minimalME said:


> Yes. If you've read through the thread, I've acknowledged that it was wrong to lie.
> 
> But people do lie.
> 
> ...


The Bible also says not to lie, and trying to justify it by saying 'well, we all do it' is wrong. Many people don't lie to their spouse, many are honest with each other, especially about the important things. 
You cannot forgive something that you are being deceived about and lied to about. If the op ever has the guts to tell her husband, then he will decide as to whether to forgive or not and stay with her or not. Right now he cant because he is being deceived.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm not justifying it - I'm acknowledging it. There's a difference.

If I took you apart and put your life under scrutiny, I'd find your flaws too. You are sinful person who behaves in sinful ways. That's why Jesus died for you.

I've already agreed with you that the lying was wrong, so you're just beating a dead horse now. As usual.

Done. 





Diana7 said:


> The Bible also says not to lie, and trying to justify it by saying 'well, we all do it' is wrong. Many people don't lie to their spouse, many are honest with each other, especially about the important things.
> You cannot forgive something that you are being deceived about and lied to about. If the op ever has the guts to tell her husband, then he will decide as to whether to forgive or not and stay with her or not. Right now he cant because he is being deceived.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> The Bible also says not to lie, and trying to justify it by saying 'well, we all do it' is wrong. Many people don't lie to their spouse, many are honest with each other, especially about the important things.
> *You cannot forgive something that you are being deceived about and lied to about. *If the op ever has the guts to tell her husband, then he will decide as to whether to forgive or not and stay with her or not. Right now he cant because he is being deceived.


Could you explain the bolded part? Do you mean we can't forgive what we don't know about? As you're aware, I'm dealing with some of this myself, but mostly I'm dealing with the broken spirit that inhabits the person who lied and deceived. We might be focusing too much on the "victim" (the person misled & lied to) when we also should have some empathy for the person who's living that lie. 

Part of who I am today is a result of a terrible lie I gave to a young woman in my journalism class in high school. She had written a story for the school paper, and as one of the editors, it was my job to determine if it should be printed. I lost track of the story somehow, but instead of telling her that, I told her we didn't have space for it in that issue. She didn't take that well, and I later (maybe the next week? Could have been next day?) I told her the truth. It was a tearful experience and something I will never, ever forget. It shaped my attitude about truth forever-forward. It still causes me pain to think about, but at the same time, it made me a better person.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@Butterfly_Princess, 

If I had had my way, I would have met ONE man, fallen in love with ONE man, married ONE man, made love to ONE man, and loved that ONE man to the day I died. That's the way I wish it had gone. 

That is not the way my life went. 

I was raised a conservative, good Christian girl. My parents were the kind that pressured me to wait for marriage to have sex. I had a boyfriend in HS who had been my friend in middle school, and we both say "Hey instead of being all weird about boyfriend/girlfriend, you want to just 'go together' and do stuff together?" We did. We went to the football games and the dances and the youth group stuff...and we made out some and played a bit in the backseat of the car. But we didn't have intercourse. 

Along comes college, and I was raped at my very first party. I was drunk and wasn't very good at drinking, so it happened. And amongst all the varying thoughts that went through my head, one of them was, "Really? THAT'S what all the hubbub was about? It wasn't that great!" I mean seriously! 

I didn't have a boyfriend in college, but after college a fella asked me out, and we dated and I ended up marrying him. He was the first guy who came along and liked me, so I stuck with him and never realized that he wasn't a good match for me. I just stuck it out! Eventually, after 15 years, I caught him cheating and he wouldn't stop, so there I was, mid-30's with two kids in elementary school and divorced. 

I NEVER wanted to be divorced. My God, I felt like such a failure. But there I was! And you know who loved a lady in her mid-30's with two kids in elementary school? A guy in his early 40's with 5 kids and a walk-away wife! We married, and we kind of hoped for a kid of our own, but when I became pregnant, I miscarried. At the doctor's, we found out we'd never have children and we were both devastated. I grieved by wanting to talk about it and hug--he grieved by withdrawing inward and trying to process it, but to me it felt like he left me just when I needed him. I ended up having an online EA of my own, and again, I felt like SUCH a failure! Oh my God! 

But from that we actually worked hard together, and each one took responsibility for our own issues, and we truly reconciled. It took a LONG time, but during that time, we grew gradually and steadily (3 steps forward, 1 back, 3 forward, 1 back). Then we found out he had heart failure, and after surviving 5 years and slowly declining, one fall day, he died. 

Now I would have told you that I would never, EVER love again. I was convinced that we had the kind of love that other folks only hope for, and that just doesn't happen twice in a lifetime. So I figured I was ruined for all other men. And honestly I was okay with that. I wished I had met and married and had sex with only one man...and instead my life was different. I had a good HS bf, I was raped, I married and divorced, I had a sex with a few men when dating, and I married again...and became a widow! Far from what I "wished for"!! But oh well, it is what life gave me. 

And miracle of miracles, I did meet someone. I was completely surprised to learn not only that I could love again, but that at my age, love would come at all! But here's the thing: I still did not marry ONE man and have sex with ONE man, like I wished. I would love to be able to give to my new husband, the love of my life, "I married one man and only had sex with the one man I married" but that isn't true and it's not me. For him to truly know ME and understand ME and why I am the way I am sometimes, he needs to know I had a good HS bf. He needs to know I was raped. He needs to know I married a guy who cheated on me. He needs to know I cheated and learned to be a new person from it. He can not love ME if he doesn't know the True Me. 

Likewise, your beloved can not know YOU and love YOU if he doesn't know the True You. Now, he may love what he thinks is "you" but it's the image of you that you've presented, not the True You. Maybe you were supposed to wait until marriage, but you went to college and went a little nuts... and as a result you grew from it and changed. Maybe you had a LTR as a young adult and thought you were going to marry so you slept with the guy...and he broke your heart. Your new beloved will need to know because one day if he says something to trigger you, he'll wonder why you're crying. 

So let your new beloved see the True You. Whatever your past may be, it is what life gave you...and it is in the past. Let him know YOU.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Hardtohandle said:


> What if the person asking already knows they asked before and for some reason became insecure. Maybe it was a comment made during sex. Maybe it was some odd observation they seen with you. Maybe it was their friend telling them something that sparked this question again..
> But they know the original answer..
> 
> You think coming clean is going to be good ? You really, really, think so ?
> ...


So I'm wondering then is what your saying is it " l better keep my head in the sand because if l know the truth I will break?"


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Holdingontoit said:


> I agree.
> 
> When my wife went to visit her recently-divorced friend, I said "she may want to go to a bar and verify she is still capable of attracting male attention. You are too (capable). But you are married and she isn't. So I hope you wouldn't do what she may want to do. But if you falter and indulge, whatever you do don't tell me about it. Take it to the grave."
> 
> I agree with the advice: go dump your guilt onto someone else. Don't dump on the person you supposedly love more than anyone.


This is interesting to me because it is anethema to me and a polar opposite position I would take.

There is an 800 lb. gorilla on steroids in me that straight up kills Interlopers and let's Mrs. C know that stupid behavior will not result in a happy ending.

Mrs. C loves it and would never jeopardize her position as my mate by anything that could even be considered shifty behavior.

If she went to comfort a divorced friend, I would only worry about her safety, never her integrity.

She is mine boldly.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

SadSamIAm said:


> I think her husband did make it known that the number is important TO HIM. That is why she lied.


No, she said she told that lie to every man, so it had nothing to do with knowing it being important to him. It is obviously important to HER to be seen in that light for whatever reason. 

OP, I can’t for the life of me figure out why you chose your fake number as two. That is below the norm for most people. That tells me you are not a very good liar. A good liar would pick five as their imaginary number. Believable but not too high. Since you are not a good liar at all this will come back to bite you. It will be when you are happy and comfortable in your marriage, sharing stories with your husband laughing over a glass of wine, and you will share a memory that hints at sex with a guy that isn’t David and whatever the other fake name was. He will notice and question. It won’t be someone blurting our something at wedding back home or saying something on Facebook, it will be you yourself that gives it away through a throw-away story. Because you will be content and want to share everything with your best friend. 

I am in camp “tell him” no matter what. My own number is high to anyone’s standards. It isn’t high because I loved sex and wanted to have “fun”. It is high because I was a broken person looking for validation in the wrong places. I am ashamed of it. I envy those on here that can pontificate about knowing the value of sex and limiting it to marriage or even select LTRs. It means they knew the value of themselves, not sex. I did not value myself. But I do now. And my value now is not determined by the number of ******** or frat boys I allowed to have sex with me when I was younger. My value is in the good and bad experiences that made me be me and the lessons I learned from them. Tell him the truth.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> Could you explain the bolded part? Do you mean we can't forgive what we don't know about? As you're aware, I'm dealing with some of this myself, but mostly I'm dealing with the broken spirit that inhabits the person who lied and deceived. We might be focusing too much on the "victim" (the person misled & lied to) when we also should have some empathy for the person who's living that lie.
> 
> Part of who I am today is a result of a terrible lie I gave to a young woman in my journalism class in high school. She had written a story for the school paper, and as one of the editors, it was my job to determine if it should be printed. I lost track of the story somehow, but instead of telling her that, I told her we didn't have space for it in that issue. She didn't take that well, and I later (maybe the next week? Could have been next day?) I told her the truth. It was a tearful experience and something I will never, ever forget. It shaped my attitude about truth forever-forward. It still causes me pain to think about, but at the same time, it made me a better person.


What I was trying to say is that if we are kept in the dark about something and lied to, we are not going to be able to process that and work on forgiveness because we don't know the truth.
As you found out, being honest and saying sorry isn't easy, but as you also found out, its well worth it. :smile2: Honesty is always best and I am sure that the young woman admired your honesty. 

The OP's husband isn't in a position to be able to forgive because he is being deceived. If he finds out one day that she lied(and these things do tend to come to light eventually) it will be far worse than if she told him now.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

minimalME said:


> I'm not justifying it - I'm acknowledging it. There's a difference.
> 
> If I took you apart and put your life under scrutiny, I'd find your flaws too. You are sinful person who behaves in sinful ways. That's why Jesus died for you.
> 
> ...


I am WELL aware that I have flaws, but we are talking here about lying to our spouse about something very important, something that if they had known before may have changed their mind about marriage. That's plain deception and its wrong to say that all people lie to their spouse. They don't.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

minimalME said:


> And I would completely understand if she felt shame about her choices.
> 
> I've written about my past on this forum, and I regret mine. But I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it, and the details are not up for public consumption.
> 
> ...


My post was NOT to shame people about their past AT ALL. I am sorry you took it that way. It was to say we all have things in our past that we wish we did differently. And when it comes to sex we have set up a culture where young people make bad choices because that culture lies to them. It tells them that their sexuality is a tool to get what they want, or to judge themselves on. And because of that young people end up making bad decisions. What's lost is the fact that sex is really just another way to have intimacy. I don't know if OP regrets her past or not, but the real shame is she didn't just tell him about how she felt and expose who she is to him. That's because the vulnerability that is spoken in truth (whatever that is) especially if it's a painful truth is the glue that relationships are built on. 

That is why truth is important because it's the thing that makes you connected. It's the thing that lets the person you are with KNOW YOU. It's what you take the risk for. Sometimes it doesn't work out, but the payoff of letting someone KNOW YOU and LOVE YOU for who you really are is worth the risk. 

To not do that is to cheat yourself out of the very thing that creates intimacy. At the end of the day good marriages are built on intimacy, emotional, physical, and informational intimacy. Knowing about a persons history the good and bad, the triumphs and the failures are what informational intimacy is all about. 

That is why you tell your spouse the truth. 

Here I am, the good, the bad, now will you love me?

OP if you want an authentic life, a full life then you live that sentence, not with everyone but with the few who you want to love.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I didn't take it as you shaming anyone. Not at all. I was simply empathizing with those who might feel shame over their past choices.

And I agree with you that what's culturally acceptable at any given time plays a huge part in our behavior.

Having said that though, knowing the truth and sharing the truth are very different things, and I still disagree that it's wise, or even possible, to disclose every fault. 

I do, however, agree with a couple of the other posters who've experienced it and found it burdensome. Unfortunately, people don't always bond and connect when faced with reality.

And I find it somewhat fascinating that this authentic confession that some seek is so incredibly selective.

It's always sex. 

No one prods others about how many tests they've cheated on or what items they've stolen from the grocery store.

The bottom line for me is this -

I appreciate that you want to be the type of person who's willing to hear the bad. I think it's very gracious, although perhaps a little idealistic and naive. 

In the end, it's your choice, and I understand and respect you not wanting that taken from you.




sokillme said:


> My post was NOT to shame people about their past AT ALL. I am sorry you took it that way. It was to say we all have things in our past that we wish we did differently. And when it comes to sex we have set up a culture where young people make bad choices because that culture lies to them. It tells them that their sexuality is a tool to get what they want, or to judge themselves on. And because of that young people end up making bad decisions. What's lost is the fact that sex is really just another way to have intimacy. I don't know if OP regrets her past or not, but the real shame is she didn't just tell him about how she felt and expose who she is to him. That's because the vulnerability that is spoken in truth (whatever that is) especially if it's a painful truth is the glue that relationships are built on.
> 
> That is why truth is important because it's the thing that makes you connected. It's the thing that lets the person you are with KNOW YOU. It's what you take the risk for. Sometimes it doesn't work out, but the payoff of letting someone KNOW YOU and LOVE YOU for who you really are is worth the risk.
> 
> ...


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

So tired of hearing about how those with high numbers of previous sexual partners weren't really looking for sex, but wanted the attention, validation, or to be loved. Total BS. If the only way to get a guy to talk to you is to drop your panties, you need to change your approach or look for another group of people to invest in. Hopefully maturity has shown a better path.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

@minimalME Asks why it’s “always sex” and not other lies and omissions that cause so much trouble in relationships. Isn’t that pretty obvious? How many other experiences are to be shared in marriage only between the married partners? The exclusivity is what makes sex so different than, what, gambling issues, psychiatric problems and most all others. The psychiatric issues might even be presumed to be out in the open (observable) if with someone for a few months. Not sex. 

I’m sure we can come up with some serious examples other than sex, but it’s not that hard to understand why it’s relatively universal. There aren’t many other things in our wedding vows that stand out as loudly as “faithful” so it’s reinforced on a regular basis.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

What an incredibly ignorant comment.

As someone who was sexually abused by several male family members - yes, that's how 'affection' was given to me from a very young age. And, yes, that's what I continued to seek.

Sorry if reading about it bores you. 



MAJDEATH said:


> So tired of hearing about how those with high numbers of previous sexual partners weren't really looking for sex, but wanted the attention or to be loved. Total BS. If the only way to get a guy to talk to you I'd to drop your panties, you need to change your approach or look for another group of people to invest in. Hopefully maturity has shown a better path.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I didn't ask why. 



Casual Observer said:


> @minimalME Asks why it’s “always sex” and not other lies and omissions that cause so much trouble in relationships. Isn’t that pretty obvious?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

MAJDEATH said:


> So tired of hearing about how those with high numbers of previous sexual partners weren't really looking for sex, but wanted the attention, validation, or to be loved. Total BS. If the only way to get a guy to talk to you I'd to drop your panties, you need to change your approach or look for another group of people to invest in. Hopefully maturity has shown a better path.


That might be easy to say from the outside looking in. I have two daughters. Each one of them had a girl like this in their circle of friends. In one case the little girls mom was a high power
exec that never was around. She was given a fancy car and money but that was it. No guidance and no attention. In the second case the little girls dad was always away at work and her 
mom was a complete nut job flake. The mom had a major big boob job and like to flaunt herself. The daughter with no guidance followed suit as parenting wasn't on her mom's list of
to do's. Both these girls were seeking love and validation ...... that was very easy to see. 

In both cases I personally knew these kids and they both were at my house multiple times. They were both good kids that were actually smart and could of had a very good start in life.
Their situations dictated that this path would not be the one they follow for now. 

Both these girls are racking up the count ...... 

They aren't bad kids , they just didn't have the right parental support. 

"So tired of hearing about how those with high numbers of previous sexual partners weren't really looking for sex, but wanted the attention, validation, or to be loved. Total BS. "

I don't think it is BS at all. I've seen how it works


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

MAJDEATH said:


> So tired of hearing about how those with high numbers of previous sexual partners weren't really looking for sex, but wanted the attention, validation, or to be loved. Total BS. If the only way to get a guy to talk to you I'd to drop your panties, you need to change your approach or look for another group of people to invest in. Hopefully maturity has shown a better path.


You have no idea. People have different reasons for doing things. I'm one of those with a high number. I fell into this for a variety of reasons. you seem to think that people are making an excuse for it. I am not saying that I didn't get pleasure or excitement out of it but I don't think i would have gone around having sex with guys I just met just because I wanted an orgasm. What makes you think you know why people become promiscuous?


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

sokillme said:


> ...And when it comes to sex we have set up a culture where young people make bad choices because that culture lies to them. It tells them that their sexuality is a tool to get what they want, or to judge themselves on. And because of that young people end up making bad decisions. What's lost is the fact that sex is really just another way to have intimacy. I don't know if OP regrets her past or not, but the real shame is she didn't just tell him about how she felt and expose who she is to him....


Culture and society also lies to us (women) to say that we can just have sex and it doesn't matter. That "the past is the past" and that it's "none of your husband's business what you did before you met".

We easily say "I slept with him", etc. like it's no big deal. Even though i've had sex with a lot of guys, I still feel like it's such a momentous and sacred act between people. Especially for a women where a man is INSIDE of her body. I think it's difficult to say that this is meaningless or just "casual". How could there be any such thing as "casual sex"?

Even people with high numbers of partners usually know their number of partners. Because with each new partner you are giving yourself to him. It's not just an action like any other action. You do it and then it's over. With sex, you give yourself to the guy and that's a FOREVER thing. You can NEVER change it. You've given yourself to them.

That's the main reason why i'm so tormented by this. I know my husband has a right to know. I'm not going to sit here and say it's none of his business. I think the fact that his wife gave herself away to so many other men is very much his business! The problem is that I'm weak and I don't want to hurt him. The very reasons that it's important like I mentioned are the reasons why it would hurt him soooo much.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Now, why do guys sometimes have have a high partner count 🙄🙄 ? .

Just thought I'd ask. I mean, with all the proposed reasonings for a lady to be driven. 

(PS not detracting from the serious nature of some of those reasonings.)

Why might a guy be so driven, while the "whys" are being tossed around?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

JustTheWife said:


> That's the main reason why i'm so tormented by this. I know my husband has a right to know. I'm not going to sit here and say it's none of his business. I think the fact that his wife gave herself away to so many other men is very much his business! The problem is that I'm weak and I don't want to hurt him. The very reasons that it's important like I mentioned are the reasons why it would hurt him soooo much.


Despite all the hot topic and agenda of everyone here (myself included) ..... sounds to me you probably have the best position to have a discussion with the OP, ..... as unenviable
a position as that may be.

I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on the matter.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

JustTheWife said:


> Culture and society also lies to us (women) to say that we can just have sex and it doesn't matter. That "the past is the past" and that it's "none of your husband's business what you did before you met".
> 
> We easily say "I slept with him", etc. like it's no big deal. Even though i've had sex with a lot of guys, I still feel like it's such a momentous and sacred act between people. Especially for a women where a man is INSIDE of her body. I think it's difficult to say that this is meaningless or just "casual". How could there be any such thing as "casual sex"?
> .


For this reason alone is why you should tell him. And maybe he is insecure but this is one of the insecurities, he is sharing with you. Why would you based on your love for him not come clean. For one reason or another this is why we are all here is because of lies. And when the truth was found out later rather than sooner, it was such a shift and monumental the relationship is or pending to be broken because it did mean something to the person who asked the question.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

minimalME said:


> What an incredibly ignorant comment.
> 
> As someone who was sexually abused by several male family members - yes, that's how 'affection' was given to me from a very young age. And, yes, that's what I continued to seek.
> 
> ...


SA is wrong, and not your fault. If all that stopped when you left the home life, it would be easy to tell your fiance that my number of sexual partners is low - except for when I was SA by family members until I could get out of that environment and testify at the criminal proceeding. 

Now if you continued to rack up the count as an adult - that's on you.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

JustTheWife said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > So tired of hearing about how those with high numbers of previous sexual partners weren't really looking for sex, but wanted the attention, validation, or to be loved. Total BS. If the only way to get a guy to talk to you I'd to drop your panties, you need to change your approach or look for another group of people to invest in. Hopefully maturity has shown a better path.
> ...


Because they want to. Own your decisions. I do.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Everyone has the right to set the criteria they want in their future spouse. At the top of the list for everyone I know is honesty. Everything else would be lower on the list. Everything else is potentially negotiable. Once we get to know somebody we will put things into perspective and may be willing to change what we thought was the line in the sand.

But not on honesty.

Every day the lie is let to continue is another day of dishonesty. It isn't just a one time lie, it is a continuing lie. That's what we hear consistently from the betrayed regardless of what the specific topic of the lie is.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

MAJDEATH said:


> SA is wrong, and not your fault. If all that stopped when you left the home life, it would be easy to tell your fiance that my number of sexual partners is low - except for when I was SA by family members until I could get out of that environment and testify at the criminal proceeding.
> 
> Now if you continued to rack up the count as an adult - that's on you.


I understand your perspective but it doesn't work that way. The behavior is a symptom of the disease itself, to misuse a phrase. Promiscuity is one of the common reactions to the psychological damage done by CSA. Another common reaction is the opposite, being very prudish. The adult doesn't recognize their behavior as being related to the CSA until they deal with the underlying issues.

This isn't like having a limp after a broken ankle has healed, where the cause is obvious. But that doesn't justify lying about one's count regardless if one can connect the dots to the root cause.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Now, why do guys sometimes have have a high partner count 🙄🙄 ? .
> 
> Just thought I'd ask. I mean, with all the proposed reasonings for a lady to be driven.
> 
> ...


My count was high for about a year. I fell in love in high school and had my heart broke. I thought I was the golden boy. Captain of every team. Honor roll. My girlfriend was one of the most popular girls. My ego and my heart were crushed when she broke up with me. Until she broke my heart, I believed sex was sacred and something worthy to be saved for marriage.

But for the following months it seemed like I was having sex with someone different every other weekend. I would be out partying and would end up with some girl. Sex made me feel better for a bit. I was trying to prove I was a man. Trying to fix my broken ego. And my broken heart. It didn't work. I decided to move away from that small town to go to college. 

The only thing that fixed my broken heart was time. And meeting my now wife.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

This thread has gone down the crapper like too many here lol. Honestly, in terms of the point of this thread as per the OP, it really has no bearing how any of us feel about high/low counts. The point is simple. The OP lied to her husband. As she stated:



> I knew that telling him the truth would be a KILLER for him, plus I didn't want the relationship to end between us.


So based on this, regardless of what any of us think about sex, it sounds like this is an IMPORTANT topic for her husband. She robbed him of the opportunity to make his own choice as to how to proceed with the relationship. Now it is time for the OP to put on her big girl pants, tell her Husband the truth, and let the cards fall where they may.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> This thread has gone down the crapper like too many here lol. Honestly, in terms of the point of this thread as per the OP, it really has no bearing how any of us feel about high/low counts. The point is simple. The OP lied to her husband. As she stated:
> 
> 
> 
> So based on this, regardless of what any of us think about sex, it sounds like this is an IMPORTANT topic for her husband. She robbed him of the opportunity to make his own choice as to how to proceed with the relationship. Now it is time for the OP to put on her big girl pants, tell her Husband the truth, and let the cards fall where they may.


Yup. The lie is the issue.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

EllisRedding said:


> This thread has gone down the crapper like too many here lol. Honestly, in terms of the point of this thread as per the OP, it really has no bearing how any of us feel about high/low counts. The point is simple. The OP lied to her husband. As she stated:
> 
> 
> 
> So based on this, regardless of what any of us think about sex, it sounds like this is an IMPORTANT topic for her husband. She robbed him of the opportunity to make his own choice as to how to proceed with the relationship. Now it is time for the OP to put on her big girl pants, tell her Husband the truth, and let the cards fall where they may.


Please ignore what I wrote below. Just read the opening post. They have only been married 5 months. The answer is easy. She should tell him the truth.

****************************************************************************

I agree with what you are saying. We did get off track a bit.

I keep changing my mind about what the correct decision is. To tell the truth or not. If it was a month or two after they met, then the answer is easy. Tell the truth so he can make an informed decision. But now that time has passed, it is a bit unclear (for me). 

I remember a thread a while ago. The question was something like, "If your spouse cheated on you 20 years ago, would you want to know?" Based on the fact that your spouse has been faithful since then and your marriage is good. 

My answer to that question, was NO, I wouldn't want to know. Many disagreed. My reasoning is that people screw up, that she has made amends by being faithful and that she would have been punishing herself over what she did for so many years. That her telling me would only help her (relief from keeping the secret) and hurt me. Others felt like she cheated, so she is a cheater, and cheaters never change, so she can never be trusted. That you could never believe that she was actually faithful the last 20 years.

Based on my answer of NO above, I am now thinking that if my wife had slept with 100 guys before she met me instead of the 5 or so that she has lead me to believe, I would probably be best off not knowing about it. Her telling me would help her and hurt me. I would have doubts forever about our relationship.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

MAJDEATH said:


> Because they want to. Own your decisions. I do.


No, I do own it 100%. Why do you think I don't? Saying there are reasons for behavior or for making certain decisions does not mean you don't own it. Not making excuses for anything. Believe me, i've lived with the guilt and the shame of it. A whole lot of all consuming guilt and shame (and long before i met my husband).

Is it that you are concerned that guilt and shame might be lost or lessened if we say there are reasons for it. Or that we might not be as deserving of nasty names that some people like to call us?

Your comments just sound like a different way of saying "you know you wanted it...". Well if it makes you feel any better then yes, I did want it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

minimalME said:


> I didn't take it as you shaming anyone. Not at all. I was simply empathizing with those who might feel shame over their past choices.
> 
> And I agree with you that what's culturally acceptable at any given time plays a huge part in our behavior.
> 
> ...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> Culture and society also lies to us (women) to say that we can just have sex and it doesn't matter. That "the past is the past" and that it's "none of your husband's business what you did before you met".
> 
> We easily say "I slept with him", etc. like it's no big deal. Even though i've had sex with a lot of guys, I still feel like it's such a momentous and sacred act between people. Especially for a women where a man is INSIDE of her body. I think it's difficult to say that this is meaningless or just "casual". How could there be any such thing as "casual sex"?
> 
> ...


Here is the thing. The lie can hurt him, the sex count should not though it may make him insecure for a while (and that is normal). You had no commitment to him before you married him. That is where these men go wrong. I think they have a right to say look I need you to think the way I do on this, but really that is all. 

I have made my feelings known on this thread, but if I was your husband I would be willing to try and I would be thankful that I finally know the real you. You know him better then me, but you also are not trusting your faith. 

This is a thread jack and I try not to be too religious on here but please humor me for a second. From the information you have given in the past this kind of situation is why you believe the way you do right? No one should be tormented. That is not supposed to be the life you live, that is not the life that God wants for you. No it's not a pass to do wrong, but it is for exactly when you do wrong know it and want to do right. (I am specifically talking about the lie.) Your faith is not about guilt it's about forgiveness so you no longer have to feel guilt. If you are trapped in guilt you are not doing it right. 

Even more then your husband you need to really get that part straight. I would encourage you to really work on this, with an emphasis on forgiveness.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Now, why do guys sometimes have have a high partner count &#55357;&#56900;&#55357;&#56900; ? .
> 
> Just thought I'd ask. I mean, with all the proposed reasonings for a lady to be driven.
> 
> ...


Well there is a whole popular philosophy (red-pill) where a the specific worth of a man is judged by sex count, or how many women he can "get". Just the idea that if a man has sex with a women he "got" her like she is a trophy for a collection is all that needs to be said to explain it. That's not about having fun or even orgasm.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

In addition to discussing whether to tell him (I think you should), there is the question of how.

Do not say "I lied. My number is higher than I told you. But don't worry, you are better than any of them." He won't believe you about the "you are better" part. And it will feel very condescending and full of pity for him. Which he will hate.

What you say after "I lied" is: I want to share myself with you more than I shared with anyone else. Not just sexually but in all areas of life. I am going to start right now." Then tell him something about yourself that no one else knows.

And remember, availability is not the same thing as honesty. You won't earn back his trust by being available sexually. But you might earn some credit by being open and honest. If he never hears from you "that is not my favorite, how about we try this instead" then he will not trust that you are being honest with him.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

minimalME said:


> I didn't ask why.


But you did. At least by inference. Your quote was-

And I find it somewhat fascinating that this authentic confession that some seek is so incredibly selective.

It's always sex.

No one prods others about how many tests they've cheated on or what items they've stolen from the grocery store.​I would suggest that's asking "Why is it always about sex?"


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

No. 

If I'd wanted to ask a question, I would have. 

You're making assumptions.

And if you want to start a new thread to discuss this, feel free.




Casual Observer said:


> But you did. At least by inference. Your quote was-
> 
> And I find it somewhat fascinating that this authentic confession that some seek is so incredibly selective.
> 
> ...


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

minimalME said:


> No.
> 
> If I'd wanted to ask a question, I would have.
> 
> ...


No need to start a new thread; it's actually a relevant question about relationships. Why do we automatically assume that any discussion about one's "past" is invariably about sex? Looking at the OP's actual question, it says nothing about sex. Except that it is in the "Sex in Marriage" section, which I'll admit, is kind of a give-away.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> No need to start a new thread; it's actually a relevant question about relationships. Why do we automatically assume that any discussion about one's "past" is invariably about sex? Looking at the OP's actual question, it says nothing about sex. Except that it is in the "Sex in Marriage" section, which I'll admit, is kind of a give-away.


Actually for me, these are the things that I wanted to understand. What were your past relationships like, why did they end, how did they end, what did you learn if anything?

This was the stuff I wanted to know about for me. I wanted to know as much as I could about her. At that point I am just trying to understand and this type of information is what I want to know about. 

Not her count of partners. But it really does help if you have the ongoing, "What do you like/want sexually"...

I just want that line of communication open. But I really wanted to know high lights of past relationships.


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## Lake life (Nov 18, 2019)

Most men really don’t want to know 
I say just stick to the original story 
He’s probably lying about it too 
What’s in the past should stay there
I see nothing to be gained


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## stillthinking (Jun 1, 2016)

> Should I tell my husband the truth about my past?


Should you? Yes. 

Will you?


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

some things are private some things are not.

You can keep this intimate secret to your grave.

There really is no reason to tell him.

Unless, of course, you want to introduce doubt, drama, and insecurity into your marriage.

Your husband has a weakness, identified in his question, particularly in the timing of the asking.

He married a grown woman in the 21st Century, not in the 11th Century.

Just leave it be.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

michzz said:


> You can keep this intimate secret to your grave.


Correction, she can *try* to keep this secret.

For me it was a manufacturing date printed on the back of something which gave away that my now xw lied about her timeline. There had been some comments from friends of hers we saw occasionally when we went back to the home town or one of them would come visiting us. Those comments were not specific enough to prove lies but were enough of a hint to think she had lied. Things just didn't quite add up. The manufacturing date not only exposed the lie but it then indicated the little comments I'd overheard meant a whole lot more than a slightly fudged number.

Anyhow, the point is she can say nothing but it doesn't guarantee he won't become suspicious or that somehow the truth will come to light inadvertently.

At which point the marriage is over because the trust is lost. This isn't about her number, it is about her being a liar.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Correction...... we probably already ran the poor girl out of this place so none of this matters.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

michzz said:


> some things are private some things are not.
> 
> You can keep this intimate secret to your grave.
> 
> ...





Thor said:


> Correction, she can *try* to keep this secret.
> 
> ...<<snip>>
> 
> At which point the marriage is over because the trust is lost. This isn't about her number, it is about her being a liar.


I suppose that is a possible outcome, but by no way assured.

Without getting into a philosophical argument about the nature of lies, I personally believe that a BF/GF early in their dating life minimizing their sexual history is a far, far less troublesome thing to deal with than cheating during a marriage.

I may be presuming here, but most non-virginal adults (and certainly well past legal majority) have had sexual partners.

So presuming that, and her H knew she was not a virgin, it really is not any of his business now, after the marriage.

It is not like he is King Henry the 8th worried that his queen had "issue" with another man prior to his reign.

I equate fudging with the "number" to be similar to shaving off pounds for the driver's license.

No big deal--UNLESS you go out of your way to make it one without reason to do so.

Again, he married her knowing she was not virginal. And he isn't either, for that matter.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

michzz said:


> I suppose that is a possible outcome, but by no way assured.
> 
> Without getting into a philosophical argument about the nature of lies, I personally believe that a BF/GF early in their dating life minimizing their sexual history is a far, far less troublesome thing to deal with than cheating during a marriage.
> 
> ...



From my perspective it isn't the magnitude of her number that will be a problem if the lie is exposed, it is the lie itself which will be the problem.

She made her number his business when she told him a number and then again when she married him without correcting it. Still, I don't think for most people a slight inaccuracty in number will itself be the problem for the reasons you stated - we know our partner had sex with other people before us. If the number is off by a large amount then it could indicate a difference in values or in how sexuality is viewed, which could indicate an incompatibility. 

Regardless, he has every right to his standards in what he wants as a partner. 

From everything I've read, whether it be sexual infidelity in marriage or some other form of deception, ultimately the problem is the lie. Trust is killed by the lie.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

michzz said:


> I suppose that is a possible outcome, but by no way assured.
> 
> Without getting into a philosophical argument about the nature of lies, I personally believe that a BF/GF early in their dating life minimizing their sexual history is a far, far less troublesome thing to deal with than cheating during a marriage.
> 
> ...


My husband sexual past, and mine, are definitely each other business. There is a massive difference between having had one or two sexual partners or 10, or 30 or 50. Its not just about whether you are a virgin or not. 
Its about being on the same page about sex and what it means to each partner. If I met a man who had had multiple sexual partnersthen we are not compatible. We see sex as something very different and I would actually have no attraction to a man who thinks that casual sex is ok. It would be a real turn off.


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## BlindedByTheLight (Oct 7, 2019)

JustTheWife said:


> Butterfly_Princess said:
> 
> 
> > Here is my little copy and past from the intro forum: My name is Angela, 25 years old, from Orange County, Cali. Married for 5 months and 9 days now. My husband is 32 and this is his second marriage and my first. No children between us..yet.
> ...


I would go as far to say that you’re definitely not alone with this. A dilemma indeed to behold!!!

Before I continue, I feel compelled to state my opinion about your comment on the OP’s question. 

You have nothing to be ashamed about regarding your past, irrespective of how many sexual partners!!!!

Basically, when men ask a question like that, women give an answer that society has told them to give and what the man wants to be given!!!

If he’s persistent in asking that question, then only you can decide to be honest or not. 

He’s probably just feeling insecure and really want some reassurance. In admitting to lying, it could open up a Pandora’s box of difficult questions. 

For example..... so am I the best lover you’ve ever had??? 
You.... yes
Him..... you have to say that!!!

Or

You..... sex with you is fantastic, it’s different so I can’t really compare. 
Him.... right, so I’m not the best!!

You can’t win!!!

On a final point....
Don’t be ashamed, mistakes happen it’s called life!!!

👍


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

michzz said:


> Unless, of course, you want to introduce doubt, drama, and insecurity into your marriage.


You mean bring it out into the open. He asked in the middle of sex and she is here because Drama, doubt and insecurity have already ensued


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

BlindedByTheLight said:


> I would go as far to say that you’re definitely not alone with this. A dilemma indeed to behold!!!
> 
> Before I continue, I feel compelled to state my opinion about your comment on the OP’s question.
> 
> ...


Let's translate, it's OK to lie because... Men.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I learned about the rule of 3 in college, and for the most part it bore the truth. Whatever a single lady you meet says is her number of partners, multiply by 3. Opposite for the guys.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I think the OPs husband asked the question at the wrong time, specifically en flagrant delicti and the time of their life (After getting married).

That was a question for before the vows are said. Not after.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> I learned about the rule of 3 in college, and for the most part it bore the truth. Whatever a single lady you meet says is her number of partners, multiply by 3. Opposite for the guys.


Curiously, we have a "rule of 3" in retail too. If you show someone more than 3 of something, you create a shopper, not a buyer. You need to narrow down the choices to keep them from being paralyzing (you'll always wonder what else is out there and not settle down). Not really applicable here since I don't believe I've seen evidence that people with more partners are less likely to settle down than those with fewer.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

When I looked at her other posts her orientation was stated as Bisexual, so it may be not just OMs but OWs she has not disclosed. That alone might be a deal breaker for her H regardless of numbers.

I don't believe she said if any of her ex'es are still in contact with her or live nearby etc, or worse has converted them into friends.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Tilted 1 said:


> So I'm wondering then is what your saying is it " l better keep my head in the sand because if l know the truth I will break?"


NO what I am saying is make sure the reason you are coming clean about something like this ISN'T about YOU baring your soul just so YOU can feel good. 

Because you might get more then you expect which includes a lost relationship.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

michzz said:


> I think the OPs husband asked the question at the wrong time, specifically en flagrant delicti and the time of their life (After getting married).
> 
> That was a question for before the vows are said. Not after.


I believe she said the same then as well.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

michzz said:


> I think the OPs husband asked the question at the wrong time, specifically en flagrant delicti and the time of their life


Well, he isn't going to ask the question without evidence that she has "committed the crime"...... before the marriage, we don't have reason to doubt what our fiancee told us....we accept it as truth......

It's only after we get the demonstrations of experience that is obviously more than ours that the doubts ensue.... we start to understand THEN that we've been lied to....

The very best path the OP could take here is to reveal her lie, explain her reasons for lying. If her husband is a man who recognizes his own propensity to sin and is repentant for his own sin, he will forgive his wife for having lied to him.

He may not, however, be able to live with the reality that he is a "plan B" who has less experience than his wife, and cannot possibly be her "best" choice. Coming to her bed in the aftermath of it may prove to be a formidable "stronghold" in his life and in his marriage. It may destroy their relationship.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Hardtohandle said:


> NO what I am saying is make sure the reason you are coming clean about something like this ISN'T about YOU baring your soul just so YOU can feel good.
> 
> Because you might get more then you expect which includes a lost relationship.


But this is why the OP, is here if she does bare her soul then the relationship becomes genuine and honest. Because the question was asked before and again during, This is, 
Why it is TAM's number one rule "" Trust your Gut "" now the H knows something is not right, so this is ground zero. And the H believes his gut, should it be the trade off so she can remain in the marriage that is a lie? And deceiving at the start of her marriage? I think not, but should come clean and have a clear soul and shows this and is her reason for her post. " She knows what is right but is Compartmentalizing so she will not have to come clean""


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Having gone through the embarrassment of finding out after marriage, I wanted to tell you that it hurts deeply. I didn't know how to respond to someone's comment that if they knew I was going to marry her, they would have told me not to because she screwed everyone or something like that. I figured he was joking because he knew me. He apparently wasn't. 

What hurt me most was that I realized she didn't trust me. That made me question the validity of the marriage and it's likelihood of long term success. I'm divorced. 

At this early stage, give it a shot. Facebook is going to be your downfall some day. That will be tougher because you waited and continued the charade. Give him a chance to love you. He isn't at the moment. He is loving a façade. 

It will feel so much more fulfilling, if he accepts you for who you really are. You will be so satisfied inside and you will love him. You don't truly love him right now. I don't mean to hurt your feelings. I know you think you love him. If it all gets cleared up, it will be better and stronger than you've known to date.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

TJW said:


> Well, he isn't going to ask the question without evidence that she has "committed the crime"...... before the marriage, we don't have reason to doubt what our fiancee told us....we accept it as truth......
> 
> It's only after we get the demonstrations of experience that is obviously more than ours that the doubts ensue.... we start to understand THEN that we've been lied to....
> 
> ...


Why do you make the assumption he was Plan B? Why could it not be the case that it was "just" sex with the other guys and the man she married offered so much more? 

I think it's difficult to hide the evidence of greater experience than led to believe; my wife certainly didn't do a good job of it. The problem is that, when questioned, people will often "double down" instead of offer up the truth, because they're scared. That by itself isn't the worst thing in the world; the worst thing in the world is that it establishes a pattern that can be repeated because, after all, probably nothing else they're going to do is going to be a bigger lie with greater consequences. At least nothing they can imagine at that time. So lying and not being open in general can become an entrenched pattern of behavior.

And even if lying doesn't become entrenched, then there's the continuing guilt every single time it becomes necessary to double-down. Or at least hopefully there is, because what would it say about your wife or husband if there wasn't guilt about lying something that apparently has such importance to you?

In the end, it's an individual thing because a lot of people just won't care what went on before. And I think that's what gets many in trouble, because maybe they're waiting to see evidence of that. Which in itself is a trap, because it causes delay. 

Something you learn later in life, whether it's personal relationships or business decisions- those great ideas that you think you have to wait to do, because you don't have the time or the resources or the guts to do at the time? When you finally get around to them, IF you finally get around to them, you'll be scratching your head why you didn't do them sooner. Virtually every single time this will be the case. If there's something you feel should be done, don't wait for the "right" time. Just do it.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Casual Observer said:


> Why do you make the assumption he was Plan B? Why could it not be the case that it was "just" sex with the other guys and the man she married offered so much more?


It's obvious that I cannot know any of this. I should have made it more clear that feeling like "plan B" would be my immediate reaction to the scenario. And, I would feel that whether she confessed to the lie, or not, when I came to intuitively understand that it was a lie. "En flagrant delicti" would probably overtake me, and I'd have to ask.....

For me, it's the "so much more" that's the problem, I resent being "so much more" when I'm not wanted for "just sex". I want to be "the one", not "one more (because you can make money)".....

When I'm not wanted for "just sex", I feel completely disrespected and used by having the responsibility to be "so much more". I would probably remain married, because it's my duty, but the relationship would be completely tanked.

This is a very difficult dilemma. I try to come down on the side of truth, because I believe that is the way to the ultimate best outcome. However, I can understand a rationale in which no confession might placate me into a life of partial denial.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

2ntnuf said:


> Having gone through the embarrassment of finding out after marriage, I wanted to tell you that it hurts deeply. I didn't know how to respond to someone's comment that if they knew I was going to marry her, they would have told me not to because she screwed everyone or something like that. I figured he was joking because he knew me. He apparently wasn't.
> 
> What hurt me most was that I realized she didn't trust me. That made me question the validity of the marriage and it's likelihood of long term success. I'm divorced.
> 
> ...


This is very sad and makes me even more afraid to discuss my past with my husband. Many people think like that - a woman who has "screwed everyone" is not fit to marry. No wonder why we try to keep it such a secret.

I don't know how to think about this.

Part of my agrees with it. I'm damaged goods. I already gave myself away to so many other men, there is nothing left give.

If I tell him, I need to be ready for him to leave me.

You're right that he's loving a facade of a pure girl that only he's had. But what if it's the opposite? I tell him and then all he can see is what other men have done to me. Instead of being his wife, the woman he adores, I become just a wh*** in his eyes? So it's like he goes from one wrong impression of me to another. Kind of a lose/lose situation.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

You certainly should not view yourself as "damaged goods". This will not be productive for you or for him. Your past is part of who you are today and I agree with others who have said that he should not view himself as Plan B. He is the person you chose to marry and be with. You should let him know so that he doesn't wonder about it and start to think all kinds of things that he shouldn't be thinking. Explain it exactly as you did in an earlier post and let him know that you did not want to lose him and probably did not make the best choice to keep it from him, but are quite willing to come clean now and also that it does not in any way take away from the fact that you love him and chose to be with him.

Its not easy but not impossible to recover from this and even become a stronger couple.

Good luck!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> This is very sad and makes me even more afraid to discuss my past with my husband. Many people think like that - a woman who has "screwed everyone" is not fit to marry. No wonder why we try to keep it such a secret.
> 
> I don't know how to think about this.
> 
> ...


I guess that's why its so important that we marry someone who shares our views on sex and marriage etc. Just as we have to marry someone that we share other important beliefs and thoughts with. 
Yes you will have to risk loosing him, but otherwise you will have a marriage with lies and deceit, and what sort of marriage is that? 
Throwing yourself on his mercy is all you have unless you want to carry on lying to him and deceiving him. 

I feel that people are free to live as they like, just as others are free to want to meet a marry someone who shares their views on sex.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

JustTheWife said:


> This is very sad and makes me even more afraid to discuss my past with my husband. Many people think like that - a woman who has "screwed everyone" is not fit to marry. No wonder why we try to keep it such a secret.
> 
> I don't know how to think about this.


Keeping it a secret means you have not accepted who you are. Too much concern for what others think is a waste of time and will only poison you. Now, I don't know how this type of information might affect a person's job or anything. I'm only speaking of your marriage. 



JustTheWife said:


> Part of my agrees with it. I'm damaged goods. I already gave myself away to so many other men, there is nothing left give.
> 
> If I tell him, I need to be ready for him to leave me.


I'm not saying you are damaged goods. I did not divorce because she had plenty of experience. 



JustTheWife said:


> You're right that he's loving a facade of a pure girl that only he's had. But what if it's the opposite? I tell him and then all he can see is what other men have done to me. Instead of being his wife, the woman he adores, I become just a wh*** in his eyes? So it's like he goes from one wrong impression of me to another. Kind of a lose/lose situation.


If you become a ***** in his eyes, you will know you have married the wrong person.

You haven't mentioned anything about the lies you have had to tell or the avoidances. They've affected you enough that you are here. Do you want to do something about them or do you just want to sweep them under the rug and vent? 

Venting is fine. I didn't recognize your initial post as a vent. If it was, that would be my mistake in trying to help. 

You have so much fear. What causes that? Why do you feel like a *****? Forget about society. Why do you feel like you are a *****? If you didn't, you would not have brought that up. You would know you are not.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I guess that's why its so important that we marry someone who shares our views on sex and marriage etc. Just as we have to marry someone that we share other important beliefs and thoughts with.
> Yes you will have to risk loosing him, but otherwise you will have a marriage with lies and deceit, and what sort of marriage is that?
> Throwing yourself on his mercy is all you have unless you want to carry on lying to him and deceiving him.
> 
> *I feel that people are free to live as they like, just as others are free to want to meet a marry someone who shares their views on sex.*


Pretty much how I feel. If we are honest somewhere in the beginning, most things will work themselves out. We will be happier.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

JustTheWife said:


> This is very sad and makes me even more afraid to discuss my past with my husband. Many people think like that - a woman who has "screwed everyone" is not fit to marry. No wonder why we try to keep it such a secret.
> 
> I don't know how to think about this.
> 
> ...


No, I don't agree with this. Not that it does not happen, but I disagree with lots of this...

Now, I do disagree with you not telling your H, no doubt about that. And maybe both of you women know your H's well enough to know that you can't tell them. 

But here is the problem, if you made mistakes when you were young, everyone should understand that. Everyone. Further @JustTheWife, if your husband is a Christian, and I mean a REAL Christian and every standard definition that that entails.... Then he has a duty to not react that way...

2 Corinthians 5:17: 

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

This is the only verse that matters in this situation. You/HE either believe or you do not. 

You need not feel bad for your past... The lying is a different situation, but the past is the past...


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I guess that's why its so important that we marry someone who shares our views on sex and marriage etc. Just as we have to marry someone that we share other important beliefs and thoughts with.
> Yes you will have to risk loosing him, but otherwise you will have a marriage with lies and deceit, and what sort of marriage is that?
> Throwing yourself on his mercy is all you have unless you want to carry on lying to him and deceiving him.
> 
> I feel that people are free to live as they like, just as others are free to want to meet a marry someone who shares their views on sex.


There can be a huge difference between "shared views of sex" (how someone is here & now) and compatibility with the journey someone took to become who they are today. The way you put it borders on shaming when in fact I believe God shines a special light on the soul whose journey to the right place was tougher than most. 

The biggest issue is the lies and deceit you mention. Perhaps that's the only issue, because if people were more honest they wouldn't be led down a path in which they're having to double-down and make things worse. God doesn't want us to lie and deceive. I have no doubt I would have readily married my wife had I known, had she owned, her past, and been honest about my role in moving her away from a lifestyle that scared her and brought her guilt. It wasn't her past that was the issue. It was the false narrative that was doubled-down many times over the years.

It's tough, because you have to risk everything to be right with God. Or even right with your partner. But it's not yours or mine to say that a good Christian would toss someone aside because they had unfortunate (to them) baggage that was part of their journey. 

The key, obviously, is to declare that baggage early in the relationship. The question is, when should it come up? The easy answer would be as soon as it appears that a more intimate relationship is on the horizon. That could mean considerations of marriage, or even "advanced" sexuality. But everyone can agree, I think, that early is better than later. The risk of losing that person may be the same, but the consequences may be much greater down the road.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> There can be a huge difference between "shared views of sex" (how someone is here & now) and compatibility with the journey someone took to become who they are today. The way you put it borders on shaming when in fact I believe God shines a special light on the soul whose journey to the right place was tougher than most.
> 
> The biggest issue is the lies and deceit you mention. Perhaps that's the only issue, because if people were more honest they wouldn't be led down a path in which they're having to double-down and make things worse. God doesn't want us to lie and deceive. I have no doubt I would have readily married my wife had I known, had she owned, her past, and been honest about my role in moving her away from a lifestyle that scared her and brought her guilt. It wasn't her past that was the issue. It was the false narrative that was doubled-down many times over the years.
> 
> ...


The thing is that these husbands are not being given the chance to make their own decisions with or without God. I have no idea if these husband are Christians, but I do know as you say that lying is just the wrong thing no mater what. Yes they may forgive, they may remain in the marriage, but forgiveness doesnt have to mean remaining as sometimes the trust will be shattered, not always because of the casual sex, but because of the deceit. 

I know that if people become Christians and repent they are forgiven for past sins, BUT even though God will forgive them, there will still be consequences to what they did, just as there are to what we all do in our lives. There are decisions that I regret making in the past, but I can't cancel those things out and pretend they never happened, and it would be wrong of me to lie about them to my husband or anyone else. 
One of those consequences is that some people will want to marry someone who has had no or few partners. They may well have had no or few partners themselves, and they are wanting someone who shares that. I was this way with my second marriage.I only wanted a man who had very similar values to my own, IE no porn, no casual sex, complete faithfulness, and who shared my faith. I wasn't prepared to compromise as I did before. 
If my decision and desire to marry a man who shares my most important values, and my not wanting to consider a man who has had multiple partners seems to be shaming to you, that seems totally weird and I don't get it. 

I understand that for some life was hard, mine has been very hard, but we still choose how we act and what we do in those circumstances. Some I know who had the hardest lives are the most lovely people who have lived the best lives. 

Just as some don't care how many past sexual partners their spouse has had, probably because they have also had many partners, some do care and they are allowed to care believe it or not. :frown2:

All of our actions and decisions and stipulations will make it harder to meet someone. Yes a person who has had many sexual partners will narrow down their potential future spouses, but believe me, only wanting a man who has not had casual sex and doesn't watch porn, who shares my faith etc narrowed my option down far far more than that. It was a total miracle (literally)that I met anyone to be honest.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> The thing is that these husbands are not being given the chance to make their own decisions with or without God. I have no idea if these husband are Christians, but I do know as you say that lying is just the wrong thing no mater what. Yes they may forgive, they may remain in the marriage, but forgiveness doesnt have to mean remaining as sometimes the trust will be shattered, not always because of the casual sex, but because of the deceit.
> 
> I know that if people become Christians and repent they are forgiven for past sins, BUT even though God will forgive them, there will still be consequences to what they did, just as there are to what we all do in our lives. There are decisions that I regret making in the past, but I can't cancel those things out and pretend they never happened, and it would be wrong of me to lie about them to my husband or anyone else.
> One of those consequences is that some people will want to marry someone who has had no or few partners. They may well have had no or few partners themselves, and they are wanting someone who shares that. I was this way with my second marriage.I only wanted a man who had very similar values to my own, IE no porn, no casual sex, complete faithfulness, and who shared my faith. I wasn't prepared to compromise as I did before.
> ...


I had three partners before my second wife. None of them was casual or a ONS. They didn't last long, though. Still, they were a part of my life for a short time. They were not 'wham bam thank you ma'am'. 

I did care about experience, but love is a funny thing. When we love, things don't matter that much. I only asked her to tell me if it was true, but not how many or what went on. When she told me it was, I asked if she wanted to continue living that way. She said no, so I took her for her word. She must not have been sure and lied again. I guess. I don't know what she was thinking. 

The point is, I wanted to be with her. I wasn't going to leave her, unless she didn't want me. It must be difficult when one has had lots of experience and then they meet someone who has a marriage and a few short term partners in their past. Sex can be boring because the one who has the experience and hasn't told is afraid to suggest anything or do anything more than vanilla. Their husband might realize she is pretty damn knowledgeable. I guess. I never had the chance to find out. I felt she didn't want to do anything much. We never really talked about that stuff, so I don't know. 

See the difficulties? It's a mess.

Edit: Don't think I said this. I agree with you. I must have thought it was apparent. Assuming is a dangerous game.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> But it's not yours or mine to say that a good Christian would toss someone aside because they had unfortunate (to them) baggage that was part of their journey.


Loved the whole post, except this part... If you are saying that it is debatable, if someone like @JustTheWife is actually in Christ and asked forgiveness, that HER husband who is a leader in the church, was to toss her away because of her past... 

If that is what you are saying, I could give you a host of examples of scripture that would prove you wrong. 

I don't want to get into that kind of debate but it is clear biblically.

If I am misunderstanding your post, then forgive this post... 

No one has to do one thing or another, but if you profess to being a bible believing Christian, not to mention a leader, then there are other considerations besides your free will...

And of course if you don't believe do what you want...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> I had three partners before my second wife. None of them was casual or a ONS. They didn't last long, though. Still, they were a part of my life for a short time. They were not 'wham bam thank you ma'am'.
> 
> I did care about experience, but love is a funny thing. When we love, things don't matter that much. I only asked her to tell me if it was true, but not how many or what went on. When she told me it was, I asked if she wanted to continue living that way. She said no, so I took her for her word. She must not have been sure and lied again. I guess. I don't know what she was thinking.
> 
> ...


I suppose by then you had been married for some time? I would be hard to end a marriage after a time has passed and you have developed a strong love, but at least you sort of had that opportunity. I guess we are all different,I am a very honest and open person. I could never lie to my husband about something so important no matter what the consequences. If he lied to me the trust would be broken and its hard to trust again once that has happened although maybe its possible. 

My husband has only had sex with his first wife and me, and I love that. I am attracted to men who do have strong ideals about sex and marriage. I would have no attraction to a man who had had many sexual partners so for me there would be no point in persuing such a relationship.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I suppose by then you had been married for some time? I would be hard to end a marriage after a time has passed and you have developed a strong love, but at least you sort of had that opportunity. I guess we are all different,I am a very honest and open person. I could never lie to my husband about something so important no matter what the consequences. If he lied to me the trust would be broken and its hard to trust again once that has happened although maybe its possible.
> 
> My husband has only had sex with his first wife and me, and I love that. I am attracted to men who do have strong ideals about sex and marriage. I would have no attraction to a man who had had many sexual partners so for me there would be no point in persuing such a relationship.


A year or two. Maybe it was three, but it was less than five. 

I get it.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

BluesPower said:


> Loved the whole post, except this part... If you are saying that it is debatable, if someone like @JustTheWife is actually in Christ and asked forgiveness, that HER husband who is a leader in the church, was to toss her away because of her past...
> 
> If that is what you are saying, I could give you a host of examples of scripture that would prove you wrong.
> 
> ...


I don't fully understand this but my husband IS a Christian. A good one. His kind of Christian. There are many kinds of Christians. Not all think the same. And my husband is not only a Christian. He's a man. A very proud man. A 'traditional' man. He's young but one of the primary leaders in a big ministry/church group. All religious groups are different but you don't get into this kind of position in ours with a wh*** wife at your side. Having a wh*** wife that you are "Christian enough" to forgive does not earn points. He's also a human (like all of us, he's not perfect). He's also a husband who adores his wife and treats like a princess. He's also very opinionated and not very flexible sometimes (we all have faults).

With respect, i think using the bible and the fact that Christians are supposed to forgive is not a good indicator of how my husband would react to what i've done.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

JustTheWife said:


> I don't fully understand this but my husband IS a Christian. A good one. His kind of Christian. There are many kinds of Christians. Not all think the same. And my husband is not only a Christian. He's a man. A very proud man. A 'traditional' man. He's young but one of the primary leaders in a big ministry/church group. All religious groups are different but you don't get into this kind of position in ours with a wh*** wife at your side. Having a wh*** wife that you are "Christian enough" to forgive does not earn points. He's also a human (like all of us, he's not perfect). He's also a husband who adores his wife and treats like a princess. He's also very opinionated and not very flexible sometimes (we all have faults).
> 
> With respect, i think using the bible and the fact that Christians are supposed to forgive is not a good indicator of how my husband would react to what i've done.


Most churches want to think of themselves as an exclusive club. It sucks. 

You are in a really tough position. This isn't just a tell and see how it goes. You may need more help than TAM can provide. I didn't care what those guys thought about my wife. I cared what she thought about me. I knew how I felt about her. I loved her, no matter. Your husband sounds the same. Are you sure it would ruin him? Sometimes we make mountains out of mole hills because of our own fear. In fact, many times we do. 

I'm thinking you are a damn good woman and good for him. Past be damned. This one is tough. Ultimately, you will have to decide and accept any consequences or maybe none. 

I'm sorry that you are in such a conundrum. It is too tough for me to figure out.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

BluesPower said:


> Loved the whole post, except this part... If you are saying that it is debatable, if someone like @JustTheWife is actually in Christ and asked forgiveness, that HER husband who is a leader in the church, was to toss her away because of her past...
> 
> If that is what you are saying, I could give you a host of examples of scripture that would prove you wrong.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what you're saying, because far as I know, a Christian who has truly confessed and repented is not in any way less of a Christian than one who has not sinned in that fashion. But I think you're saying the opposite. I think we're arguing something where in fact we're in complete agreement.

And the stronger the Christian, the more empowered that person might/should/will (???) feel to forgive and move forward with his or her partner. But what a scary journey! When one talks about tests of faith, this is not the sort of scenario that is likely to come up. And yet it's probably more common than people believe. 

How many suffer because they doubt the strength of the faith of their partner? How many of those partners would rather not know than have their faith tested? 

I am living part of this nightmare, bared exposed threads of past & current life, but in a twilight zone because forgiveness cannot come without acceptance. And the nonsensical nature of things happening 42 years ago yet very much alive in the present. A complete lack of any possibility of infidelity on anyone's part, so where's the issue. Why should something that old need anything but burial? And yet, it does. Because the things we do at any point in our lives, whether we were 10 or 40 or 80, if we know them to be wrong, and we try to hide from them, instead of confess and repent and gain (because it's a certainty, we will gain) forgiveness... those things become part of a growing darkness in our soul.

It is never too late to set things right. This I believe.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

JustTheWife said:


> I don't fully understand this but my husband IS a Christian. A good one. His kind of Christian. There are many kinds of Christians. Not all think the same. And my husband is not only a Christian. He's a man. A very proud man. A 'traditional' man. He's young but one of the primary leaders in a big ministry/church group. All religious groups are different but you don't get into this kind of position in ours with a wh*** wife at your side. Having a wh*** wife that you are "Christian enough" to forgive does not earn points. He's also a human (like all of us, he's not perfect). He's also a husband who adores his wife and treats like a princess. He's also very opinionated and not very flexible sometimes (we all have faults).
> 
> With respect, i think using the bible and the fact that Christians are supposed to forgive is not a good indicator of how my husband would react to what i've done.


I didn't fully understand that part of his post either. 

I don't know your husband. I know what scripture says he should do, as well as those in his flock. But that doesn't mean it works out that way, because we are imperfect.

I do know that you should stop selling yourself short. You're not the person you were. You, and my wife, are far too fond of referring to themselves as having been a sl-t in the past, but I'm guessing, in an appropriate setting, you might see a true "Spartacus" moment in which a great many women in your church would come forward to confess the same sins with you. I cannot imagine that happening in a co-ed setting, but it should. Our past can be confessed, repented and forgiven. At that point, it becomes our past, something that we have learned from, but no longer pretend didn't happen. A dark cloud will have been removed from our souls and we will no longer be looking over our shoulder and wonder if it's someone who knew me at that time, because I am no longer that person. And I have a story about becoming the person I am today.

This sounds so good and real as I type it, but would I have the strength to practice the same? I cannot imagine what it is to walk in your shoes. I have some familiarity with shoes a different color, a different size, because my wife walks in them. Those shoes, she believes, are causing her much more pain, now that there's been exposure, than they did for the many years her secrets were largely hidden. Who am I to tell her that removing those shoes, walking barefoot over the hot coals of confession and repentance, followed by forgiveness, will feel so much better than wrapping layer after layer of contaminated cloth over the worn soles of the shoes she's worn for 42 years? 

In the end, you are correct. Nobody here knows how your husband would react. The only thing we know for certain is that there will be a sense of relief for you. Even if things turned out terribly, you'd still have that sense of relief, and perhaps a feeling it was the right thing to do. But it wouldn't seem like an acceptable consolation prize.

Your posts have done more to bring me back to my faith, in a meaningful fashion, than anything I can ever recall. Thank you for that. And know that there are a great many praying for you. Not praying that you "do the right thing" but just praying.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> .
> 
> How many suffer because they doubt the strength of the faith of their partner? How many of those partners would rather not know than have their faith tested?
> .


Is this not the crux, of this thread, l know what your trying to say but, biblically l am but l will not go there sofar as what interpretation each of us may have. So then non biblically speaking, the OP should have and still should come clean and be done with the falsified omissions, and be the person she would want to be married to. It is her husband who seeks the path she should surrendered too, and if she doesn't she will live with the doubt of if one day her husband finds out of her past ( bi-sexual or large count) will her marriage be salvageable or not.

Maybe he will think it is hot! or not. But more than likely no because if was hidden and all the time spent together is meaningless ( regardless if she was terrific in every way) because the marriage was a lie and he will possibly feel betrayed or worse. Then everything they worked for is meaningless and she may or may not get the home or the children when or if they have in the future. I wish she would think of her future when this comes to a head, as others have said sooner or later it always gets found out.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Guaranteed a person who finds out about a serious lie feels that the entirety of the time the lie was in place was a false marriage. When the marriage begins under a serious false representation, the entire marriage is seen as a lie.

With that in mind, imagine how a spouse will feel when the truth comes out in 10 yrs, 20 yrs, 30 years. The resentments could be huge that they had given so many of their prime years to a lie.

It is that person's values and criteria which are important, not ours. Everyone is entitled to whatever criteria they want in a spouse. The entire foundation of a person's life comes into question when they discover the things they believed about their spouse are not only false but that their spouse has been intentionally dishonest from the beginning.

The person could logically conclude that those years were stolen from them, that they can never go back to a young life with a new marriage. They can end the current marriage to move on, but they will be deeply harmed by what has been done. Perhaps there are children involved now, or maybe there are no children but they feel too old to have children in a new marriage.

This is no small matter to the betrayed, and it has almost nothing to do with the content of the lie. Whether it be sexual history or any other important information. This is a form of infidelity.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Thor said:


> Guaranteed a person who finds out about a serious lie feels that the entirety of the time the lie was in place was a false marriage. When the marriage begins under a serious false representation, the entire marriage is seen as a lie.
> 
> With that in mind, imagine how a spouse will feel when the truth comes out in 10 yrs, 20 yrs, 30 years. The resentments could be huge that they had given so many of their prime years to a lie.
> 
> ...


I am not making excuses or trying to make myself feel better for this but I think this is much more common than many people think. My case might be extreme because of the religious element to it and the fact that there is a much bigger gap between what my husband believes (that he is the only sex partner I've had) and the reality (dozens of guys had sex with me --- so hard to even type this out. so shameful. so disgusting). But I think many people have sex secrets. Again, i'm not making excuses but I lied before we even started dating. My lie was in that I never corrected what I originally said and the fact that I know and knew then he was believing something different from the truth even if I wasn't actively lying about it. After we got together, I never lied. I just never told him the truth. Not trying to say that this is better but i believe this is probably very common in marriages. Some kind of "don't ask, don't tell" that's also fed by treating the past in a misleading way.

I also think that many people (especially women) lie to themselves about their pasts. Maybe their husbands know that they've "had boyfriends" and just assume sex went with that or it's even been discussed. However, maybe some of the one night stands or periods of promiscuity have been forgotten. Not saying that's right or wrong, just that I think it's very common for women to be much less innocent than their husbands assume them to be. maybe they would care or maybe they wouldn't. Maybe they wouldn't care about a couple of one night stands but maybe they would care about many. Who knows? If your husband doesn't know the WHOLE truth then nobody knows whether or not he would care what the WHOLE truth holds.

Honestly, if my husband asked me straight out if i've had sex with any other guys, i don't think i would be able to lie to his face.

Since it's fair to assume that many other women have secrets from their husband (not necessarily lies but omissions, etc) should everyone be coming clean to their husbands? I think it's pretty rare for husbands to know EVERYTHING about what their little princesses did before they met them.

I know this is a complicated topic so there's not one right or wrong answer but I agree that lying is bad and i got myself into a big mess by letting this linger. But i've gone over and over this and I think about when I should have or could have told him. When we started dating, i had no idea we would get serious. So it would have been difficult and awkward to just tell him how many guys I had sex with or even that I was not a virgin and leave it at that. We were in the church group together and had mutual friends that were very religious. I didn't want to ruin my reputation. Then we just kind of got more serious (not sexually) as time went on. It happened slowly. By the time he asked me to marry him, i felt like it was too late to say something. I guess that would have been the right time though. I was a coward and just tried to forget it all. Like it never happened. Like I was the girl that he wanted. And the girl that I wished i was.

I hope others learn from my problem. Without even knowing it, i slept walked into something that can ruin my life by not saying something to him. I guess whenever there is a secret that your partner might care deeply about, you are at risk of your marriage being destroyed.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

JustTheWife said:


> I don't fully understand this but my husband IS a Christian. A good one. His kind of Christian. There are many kinds of Christians. Not all think the same. And my husband is not only a Christian. He's a man. A very proud man. A 'traditional' man. He's young but one of the primary leaders in a big ministry/church group. All religious groups are different but you don't get into this kind of position in ours with a wh*** wife at your side. Having a wh*** wife that you are "Christian enough" to forgive does not earn points. He's also a human (like all of us, he's not perfect). He's also a husband who adores his wife and treats like a princess. He's also very opinionated and not very flexible sometimes (we all have faults).
> 
> With respect, i think using the bible and the fact that Christians are supposed to forgive is not a good indicator of how my husband would react to what i've done.


You have a good read on your husband but he is not all that.

I'm a much older Christian man who has been involved in many ministries for many years and there are examples of real prostitutes changing their ways and getting redeemed to become amazing wives, even foremothers to impressive biblical lineage.

If Rahab was accepted, blessed and redeemed in God's eyes, all other eyes are cursed that see otherwise.

Your husband and his colleagues better watch their step unless they think themselves "holier" than God at which point there is little hope for them because prostitutes and criminals will enter in to Heaven before them easily.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> … (dozens of guys had sex with me --- so hard to even type this out. so shameful. so disgusting).


That's all in your head. Work on that. That is one thing that you have wrong and need to change about your thinking. You can't change the past. Let it go. You aren't spoiled. 

There is more to love than how many partners and what kind of sex you have had. 

Stop berating yourself. It doesn't help. That's where TAM might be able to help. Get that through your head. You are not a disgusting human. Accept that you did things then that were okay with you. Accept that you have been a good wife for him many years. 

Love yourself for who you are. Stop this crap.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> You have a good read on your husband but he is not all that.
> 
> I'm a much older Christian man who has been involved in many ministries for many years and there are examples of real prostitutes changing their ways and getting redeemed to become amazing wives, even foremothers to impressive biblical lineage.
> 
> ...


I totally get what you're saying and I really appreciate it. I know the story of Rahab very well. l can't tell you the number of nights i read different versions of that over and over.

I did say that my husband is human and therefore not perfect. Even if we might feel that it should not be this way, the fact is that someone's idea of forgiveness is not going to drive what a man might want in a wife. They are two different things. You might forgive someone who has lived his life as a thief and you might help him to get back into an honest life but it doesn't mean that you want to be friends with that person. Maybe you do or maybe you don't. But the act of forgiveness does not require you to be their friend. And even if you are willing to be friends with a reformed thief in theory, there may be certain things in this reformed thief that repel or even disgust you. Even if you can "intellectually" forgive someone for their actions, the character that they showed or the life that they led may still disgust or repel you. You can't help that. You can be the best Christian with so much forgiveness in your heart but you can't change how you feel.

How he might feel kissing my lips or making love to me. Or holding my hand. Or me being by his side at the church. After he knows what I've done with other men.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

2ntnuf said:


> That's all in your head. Work on that. That is one thing that you have wrong and need to change about your thinking. You can't change the past. Let it go. You aren't spoiled.
> 
> There is more to love than how many partners and what kind of sex you have had.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that. You're right. But be aware that i'm not beating myself up every second of the day. Things are complicated and I look at things in different ways. I felt disgusting typing that out and sharing it with everyone. So I shared that. It doesn't mean i sit there feeling totally disgusting 100% of my day. I get triggers and i had a trigger so I was just open about that.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

JustTheWife said:


> Thank you for that. You're right. But be aware that i'm not beating myself up every second of the day. Things are complicated and I look at things in different ways. I felt disgusting typing that out and sharing it with everyone. So I shared that. It doesn't mean i sit there feeling totally disgusting 100% of my day. I get triggers and i had a trigger so I was just open about that.


You're welcome and thanks for explaining. 

Good to be open and get it out.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

JustTheWife said:


> I don't fully understand this but my husband IS a Christian. A good one. His kind of Christian. There are many kinds of Christians. Not all think the same. And my husband is not only a Christian. He's a man. A very proud man. A 'traditional' man. He's young but one of the primary leaders in a big ministry/church group. All religious groups are different but you don't get into this kind of position in ours with a wh*** wife at your side. Having a wh*** wife that you are "Christian enough" to forgive does not earn points. He's also a human (like all of us, he's not perfect). He's also a husband who adores his wife and treats like a princess. He's also very opinionated and not very flexible sometimes (we all have faults).
> 
> With respect, i think using the bible and the fact that Christians are supposed to forgive is not a good indicator of how my husband would react to what i've done.


It was not really about your husband, it is about you. You should not feel bad about your past. 

However, yes, as a leader in the church, biblically he has a responsibility to forgive you. The bible is clear on that one. 

If that bothers you, then I am sorry. And I am also not saying that he would, because some cannot, I am just saying that he should. 

Leaders in the church are held to a higher standard, as they should be. But then, they are people as well, so some of them fail as well. 

That is why the Bible says "ALL have fallen short of the glory of God..."


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

JustTheWife said:


> I am not making excuses or trying to make myself feel better for this but I think this is much more common than many people think. My case might be extreme because of the religious element to it and the fact that there is a much bigger gap between what my husband believes (that he is the only sex partner I've had) and the reality (dozens of guys had sex with me --- so hard to even type this out. so shameful. so disgusting). But I think many people have sex secrets. Again, i'm not making excuses but I lied before we even started dating. My lie was in that I never corrected what I originally said and the fact that I know and knew then he was believing something different from the truth even if I wasn't actively lying about it. After we got together, I never lied. I just never told him the truth. Not trying to say that this is better but i believe this is probably very common in marriages. Some kind of "don't ask, don't tell" that's also fed by treating the past in a misleading way.


Firstly I just want to say that my post was aimed at OP who is new into her marriage, and any others who are in a similar situation. Your situation is a lot more complicated given the length of time you've been married.

Secondly, I agree with your post.

For me, and what I've generally heard others say, it is a matter of having similar values and outlooks on important matters. For example, I am now divorced and dating. One of my criteria for a long term partner is financial responsibility. If I were to marry someone and then find out she had lied about all kinds of financial things and in fact she was in a lot of financial trouble, it would be a problem both for the lie and the mismatch in value system. But let's say she glossed over a couple of store credit cards with a few hundred dollars balance on them but otherwise had been honest and she was in good financial shape. It wouldn't be a mismatch in values on the finances, and the detail of a few hundred dollars is irrelevant in our financial lives. It could be a problem if I thought it was an intentional lie of omission rather than something forgotten or she honestly didn't think was important to me (that I wouldn't change my mind based on knowing it).

So I think for you it is a problem that, as you describe, there is a larger gap in what you described vs reality. The immediate assumption is that your values and views on sex are quite different than your husband's. That may have been true in the past, or maybe you weren't behaving in accordance with your values. You'd have to be the judge of whether your views today on sex are similar to your H's. I think one of his reactions will be to wonder about the differences and "who are you?". Your years of being together is the answer. The other reaction I would expect him to have is how you could lie to him for so long about it. I would explain it the way you have here.

It will take time for him to come to grips with those things. It won't be a single conversation and then everything will be done. I suggest you have a safe place to talk about it, some kind of counselor's office. I am not religious so idk if a pastor would be best for you, or if a non-religious MC/IC situation would be best. Having a referee and a specific location away from your home to discuss it might really help to contain it.

The other reaction he may have is wondering who these other men are, and have they been in his circles. I don't think women tend to understand this about men, and this is a generality which may not apply to your H, but there is something insulting about unknowingly being in the presence of someone who has had sexual contact with your wife/gf. 

Good luck to you.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

JustTheWife said:


> You might forgive someone who has lived his life as a thief and you might help him to get back into an honest life but it doesn't mean that you want to be friends with that person.


Yes, and no matter how you would like to remain married, raise a family, provide for the common good, etc, you may always feel, when you come to the marriage bed, that you don't "measure up" and that you can never really please the experienced person.

It's heartbreaking. You are going to be disparaged continually for your lack of prowess, which you never had a chance to develop. "The beatings will continue until morale improves....."


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

I would feel betrayed. And angry, probably not divorce angry, but I'd feel I had married under false pretenses. It does matter to a lot of guys.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

My wife has far more partners than I do, and the rule of three, come to find out, held for her too. Early on, she told me she was somewhere in the thirties, and here several years later, I over heard that she is actually in the nineties. It didn't really change how I see her, but it did heavily reinforce my view of our sex life. We have frequent, great sex, but that is what it is...great sex. No real specialness or deep emotional meaning to it. Add to that her lack of ability to verbally express her raw attraction to me the way she is able to other men, and that's what we have...just sex where I am ultimately just one among many, though I do try and believe her when she says I am her best.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

samyeagar said:


> My wife has far more partners than I do, and the rule of three, come to find out, held for her too. Early on, she told me she was somewhere in the thirties, and here several years later, I over heard that she is actually in the nineties. It didn't really change how I see her, but it did heavily reinforce my view of our sex life. We have frequent, great sex, but that is what it is...great sex. No real specialness or deep emotional meaning to it. Add to that her lack of ability to verbally express her raw attraction to me the way she is able to other men, and that's what we have...just sex where I am ultimately just one among many, though I do try and believe her when she says I am her best.


That's quite a discrepancy. Guess the starting point lightens the load.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

I had a not-very-fun talk with my wife this morning about our lives and while she thinks all of our problems center upon her hidden and lied-about past, I explained that's not quite right, that it's about her pattern of not being able to understand, not even wanting to try, how something she says or does might be thought of by someone else. We had a recent issue with Thanksgiving dinner, where she unilaterally decided she might not be up to cooking (getting over a bug that is finally going away) so she ordered prepared food from a local store. She did this specifically behind everyone's back, including my daughter, for which Thanksgiving is a really big thing for (she gets into the food prep and all) because she didn't want to debate it. She would "save time" doing this instead of having people try to change her mind or whatever.

I told her she could have, should have, spoken with me first about her plans, get me on board, and then I could support her and "sell" it to the rest of the family. Which is how it could have, should have, happened. Her response? Why should she have to bother with that?

She just can't get past her own view of looking at things. And that, in her case, allows her to view everything she's done as being appropriate and not something to revisit, which means never considering if something might have been wrong. It's not quite narcissistic but getting there? She does care for other people, but only on terms she can relate to. She doesn't reach out to understand what she cannot relate to.

I think this is one way that people get in trouble, w/regards deliberately omitting/misleading/lying about their history to their partner. Looking back, it's easy to see the minefield of red flags that I carefully tried to tip-toe around instead of dealing with. 

My situation is not in any way a universal explanation. I've seen enough of @justhewife posts to know this is not an issue she has. It helps to explain my wife, and maybe some others. For the person who feels vulnerability and being open & honest is a good thing, this sort of behavior can catch them completely off-guard because they aren't looking for it. They are too willing to believe what their partner says, because, after all, they've exposed their own shortcomings and feelings.

And here's one more thing. Many of us got married with the idea of having that special person with whom we could share our joys, our problems, our light side and our dark. A partner who would learn about us, and us about them, and grown an ever-increasing bond based on shared experiences new & old. How does this topic fit in with that?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> I had a not-very-fun talk with my wife this morning about our lives and while she thinks all of our problems center upon her hidden and lied-about past, I explained that's not quite right, that it's about her pattern of not being able to understand, not even wanting to try, how something she says or does might be thought of by someone else. We had a recent issue with Thanksgiving dinner, where she unilaterally decided she might not be up to cooking (getting over a bug that is finally going away) so she ordered prepared food from a local store. She did this specifically behind everyone's back, including my daughter, for which Thanksgiving is a really big thing for (she gets into the food prep and all) because she didn't want to debate it. She would "save time" doing this instead of having people try to change her mind or whatever.
> 
> I told her she could have, should have, spoken with me first about her plans, get me on board, and then I could support her and "sell" it to the rest of the family. Which is how it could have, should have, happened. Her response? Why should she have to bother with that?
> 
> ...


I don't know if you/we are thread jacking or not. If so I guess the mods could move this to its own thread, but.. 

This is something that people do... I don't think it is just women, but I just had the conversation with Fiancé about this. 

She seems to think, that most people think like her about things? Or that if you don't see things the same way that she does, then YOU must have a problem? 

It has taken me a while to understand what this issue is and decide how to deal with it... 

I will try to be gentle about it, I will try to point out that this is an issue, and that this is a little crazy... but it will not stand in any of my relationships... 

I hope she wakes up, if not it would be sad...


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

BluesPower said:


> I don't know if you/we are thread jacking or not. If so I guess the mods could move this to its own thread, but..
> 
> This is something that people do... I don't think it is just women, but I just had the conversation with Fiancé about this.
> 
> ...


I don't think we're thread-jacking when we come up with scenarios to possibly explain the behavior. It's important for people to know that this subject is not simply an "It's my life, my past, and has no effect on you so STFU" for most people. It's too convenient to believe that. A relationship could be based entirely on the here & now & forward, nothing from the past, and that's fine as long as both parties understand that. If you went into a relationship where both parties professed that, and then later things have changed, that's a different story. That's a mess. And of course, people are dynamic, so things could, and do, change.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> ....just sex where I am ultimately just one among many, though I do try and believe her when she says I am her best.


You almost certainly are. After all, practice makes perfect.

To some people, I guess sex is just a physical activity you do with others. Like playing tennis.

They're just pickier about their partners.

If women had been throwing themselves at me for sex my whole life, maybe I'd think the same way.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Casual Observer said:


> . Her response? Why should she have to bother with that?


So that she won't be a ****? 

Because there are other people involved besides her?

These haven't occurred to her?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> So that she won't be a ****?
> 
> Because there are other people involved besides her?
> 
> These haven't occurred to her?


As of this morning, such thoughts are more likely to occur to her. It's amazing that this conversation hadn't come up earlier.

Funny how a business is supposed to have employee reviews on a regular basis, but we don't suggest the same for marriage. How many of us don't know where we stand? Why should "Should I tell my husband about my past" be something that drags on year after year at the back of someone's mind, because they might be scared to death how their partner will react? Why shouldn't they have a better idea?


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

just the wife, I would not ask about a woman's past, no need for retroactive jealousy.
Also no need to share my past. our pasts are best generally left in the past.

things needed to be revealed by the second date, sex worker, porn actor/actress, STD's,
had same sex partner. for these things can be deal breakers for many people. no point
wasting time and it would just needlessly raise one's "number".

lesson from this thread when ask what your number is, the answer is: you are or not
my first BF/GF, and I am a virgin or I am not. Response to any follow up questions:
I do not talk about my past relationships.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

oldtruck said:


> just the wife, I would not ask about a woman's past, no need for retroactive jealousy.
> Also no need to share my past. our pasts are best generally left in the past.
> 
> things needed to be revealed by the second date, sex worker, porn actor/actress, STD's,
> ...


I think everyone cares about different things. What you point out here may be very different from other guys.

There doesn't seem to be agreement on the best time to raise things like this and it's interesting that you're saying the second date. That's very early to start talking about sexual history even if it's just those things that you say you care about. Like on a second date with a guy and saying "I just need to let you know that I've had another woman as a sex partner". I think that would be very strange on many kinds of dates.

For other guys, "the number" may be very important or if there was casual sex, certain acts done, unprotected/highly intimate sex, etc, etc.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> I don't fully understand this but my husband IS a Christian. A good one. His kind of Christian. There are many kinds of Christians. Not all think the same. And my husband is not only a Christian. He's a man. A very proud man. A 'traditional' man. He's young but one of the primary leaders in a big ministry/church group. All religious groups are different but you don't get into this kind of position in ours with a wh*** wife at your side. Having a wh*** wife that you are "Christian enough" to forgive does not earn points. He's also a human (like all of us, he's not perfect). He's also a husband who adores his wife and treats like a princess. He's also very opinionated and not very flexible sometimes (we all have faults).
> 
> With respect, i think using the bible and the fact that Christians are supposed to forgive is not a good indicator of how my husband would react to what i've done.



Not sure what you mean by a 'kind' of Christian. All Christians are part of the same spiritual family and believe that Jesus is our Lord and saviour. What other kind is there?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldtruck said:


> just the wife, I would not ask about a woman's past, no need for retroactive jealousy.
> Also no need to share my past. our pasts are best generally left in the past.
> 
> things needed to be revealed by the second date, sex worker, porn actor/actress, STD's,
> ...


For many the things you mention are no less important to be honest about than if they have had many sexual partners. 
Also its nothing to do with retroactive jealousy, but honesty and sharing what is important with each other.


We knew very early on that we both believed that sex outside marriage wasn't for us. We met on a Christian dating site so that gave a clue. If I was with a man who refused to be honest then he wouldn't be the man for me. The fact that he would refuse to be honest would say a lot.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I would feel betrayed. And angry, probably not divorce angry, but I'd feel I had married under false pretenses. It does matter to a lot of guys.


Yes and it would matter to a lot of women in that position as well. Trust is so important as is honesty. Lying is always a terrible idea. Apologising is very hard, it takes guts, it takes strength, but its the right way forward. Nothing good ever comes from lying.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Not sure what you mean by a 'kind' of Christian. All Christians are part of the same spiritual family and believe that Jesus is our Lord and saviour. What other kind is there?


I just simply meant that different Christians believe different things and have different views on things as related to their Christianity (and life in general).

Sometimes I see very hard "Christians believe a, b, c" or using the bible (some interpretation of it) as a way to say what all Christians believe.

Not trying to be controversial so basically just saying that not all Christians believe and think in the same way.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> I just simply meant that different Christians believe different things and have different views on things as related to their Christianity (and life in general).
> 
> Sometimes I see very hard "Christians believe a, b, c" or using the bible (some interpretation of it) as a way to say what all Christians believe.
> 
> Not trying to be controversial so basically just saying that not all Christians believe and think in the same way.


Usually we agree on the basics of our faith at least, and many try and live their lives by Gods leading in the Bible. Some things are pretty obvious and some harder to interpret/follow. 

Are you a Christian yourself?#

Did you say that your husband had previous sexual partners?


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Usually we agree on the basics of our faith at least, and many try and live their lives by Gods leading in the Bible. Some things are pretty obvious and some harder to interpret/follow.
> 
> Are you a Christian yourself?#
> 
> Did you say that your husband had previous sexual partners?


Yes, i've been a Christian all my life. Not always a good one. I grew up in a very very strict Christian house. I don't want to go into detail about the particular order/organization but it is pretty extreme. Some might say like a cult but I wouldn't go that far.

My husband is also very Christian - we met in college in a Christian group for pretty strict Christians.

We both practice Christianity now and my husband is one of the leaders of our church/ministry.

No he did not have previous sexual partners. Just to repeat, when we met we were just friends and I took the vow for celibacy until marriage. i never thought we would date. I was ashamed of my history around all my friends in the church group so i said i didn't agree with pre-marital sex which implied that i am a virgin. When we started dating and then go engaged and then married, i never "corrected" his belief that i was a virgin. He never asked after we started dating but i know that's what he thought from earlier discussions and I also continued to espouse belief in virginity until marriage (not a lie...I do believe this is the best thing, even if i didn't follow it for a variety of reasons).


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> Yes, i've been a Christian all my life. Not always a good one. I grew up in a very very strict Christian house. I don't want to go into detail about the particular order/organization but it is pretty extreme. Some might say like a cult but I wouldn't go that far.
> 
> My husband is also very Christian - we met in college in a Christian group for pretty strict Christians.
> 
> ...


What do you think of what God says about truth and honesty?


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> What do you think of what God says about truth and honesty?


I've acknowledged here many times that I know it's a very serious sin to lie or withhold the truth from my husband. It's also a serious sin what i did with all those other men.

On the topic of different beliefs of Christians and different "kinds" of Christians, I need to tell you that both my husband and I had extensive religious teaching (not together but very similar "Christian" teachings). We've discussed this here before but part of that teaching (just one example of many with a very similar theme) involved passing a piece of unwrapped gooey candy around the room. Handled by many people. Then it got to the end and we were asked who wants to have it to eat. The punchline was "Nobody wants it. It's nasty. It's disgusting. Throw it in the garbage." All complete with the sound effects of "ughhh...ewwww" from all the kids. Then the connection was made that the candy represents a girl.

Nice huh? You may say that this is not really "Christianity". I'm not going to argue theories with you. It doesn't matter to me what you call it. We were both taught that by our church groups. I'm not wanting to get into a debate on that I'm just telling you what we learned. My husband learned from an early age and repeated over and over that females who are sexual with others are dirty and disgusting and not to be touched. Stay away. Throw in the garbage. Worthless.

So yes, I'm well aware that withholding the truth from my husband is a sin. I am also well aware of what our kind of education does to people and what they believe. My husband is a very intelligent man. Very. But he was taught in a certain way, as was I. Not making excuses but these are the realities.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

JustTheWife said:


> I think everyone cares about different things. What you point out here may be very different from other guys.
> 
> There doesn't seem to be agreement on the best time to raise things like this and it's interesting that you're saying the second date. That's very early to start talking about sexual history even if it's just those things that you say you care about. Like on a second date with a guy and saying "I just need to let you know that I've had another woman as a sex partner". I think that would be very strange on many kinds of dates.
> 
> For other guys, "the number" may be very important or if there was casual sex, certain acts done, unprotected/highly intimate sex, etc, etc.


you missed the boat, things I mentioned are deal breakers for most of the people and 
need to be cleared up on the second date before sex happens.

things you bring up go under what happened in the past is staying in the past, there
is no reason to go there. then change subject.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

error


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## 241happyhour (Jan 31, 2011)

You never know. He might want you to give details to him on every encounter. I know I have and did. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

oldtruck said:


> just the wife, I would not ask about a woman's past, no need for retroactive jealousy.
> Also no need to share my past. our pasts are best generally left in the past.
> 
> things needed to be revealed by the second date, sex worker, porn actor/actress, STD's,
> ...


Revealing numbers is not important. 

I would add a disparity of more than three partners to the list you made there. That's just me. If I say my number is less than five, yours would need to be less than ten or I'm out for long term. Now, that doesn't mean we can't date and have short term fun. I just think it is important to long term viability to be similar in numbers and sexual experience. If I've never had a three-way, I'm probably not going to be able to relate to someone who has. It is a basic difference in desire and that's something that is constantly questioned here at TAM. 

Shameful? No, if you think what you did is shameful, why did you do it? How would you know you want to be married and in a long-term relationship? Are you just trying it because you think it would be fun?

See what I am getting at? 

Oh, but you've changed and are still shamed by your own past? No, get over it. You must be okay with your past. You were then. Why do we all have to like the same things? Why do we have to be forced to comply with anyone's standards? Accept who you were and who you are. There is nothing wrong with having high numbers. There is something wrong with hiding who you are. 

You make yourself out to be a liar. I don't need to know it all. I just need to know how compatible we are. You'll probably want things I don't in sex. How can you be compatible? And, I've heard the arguments that you have changed and don't want those things. Well, I would seem like an amateur. Why would you want someone like that? Why be secret until you have sex and then shame your partner for being less experienced? 

I've seen that here as many times as the opposite.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

241happyhour said:


> You never know. He might want you to give details to him on every encounter. I know I have and did.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ewww. Gross.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

oldtruck said:


> just the wife, I would not ask about a woman's past, no need for retroactive jealousy.
> Also no need to share my past. our pasts are best generally left in the past.
> 
> things needed to be revealed by the second date, sex worker, porn actor/actress, STD's,
> ...


Well into a relationship is not the right time to say "I do not talk about my past relationships" if a false narrative has already been in use. If it had never come up, then maybe. The real key is for couples to fully understand not just boundaries but differing notions of privacy before committing to marriage. It is beyond unfair for each to profess to being open while in fact one is not.



JustTheWife said:


> I just simply meant that different Christians believe different things and have different views on things as related to their Christianity (and life in general).
> 
> Sometimes I see very hard "Christians believe a, b, c" or using the bible (some interpretation of it) as a way to say what all Christians believe.
> 
> Not trying to be controversial so basically just saying that not all Christians believe and think in the same way.


Agreed.



Diana7 said:


> Usually we agree on the basics of our faith at least, and many try and live their lives by Gods leading in the Bible. Some things are pretty obvious and some harder to interpret/follow.
> 
> Are you a Christian yourself?#
> 
> Did you say that your husband had previous sexual partners?


I think, before asking someone if they are a Christian, it would be a good idea first to look for context in prior posts. @JustTheWife has made it clear, repeatedly, that she grew up in a strictly religious home but, more importantly, is a Christian herself. A flawed person, but it's not really correct to see her as a flawed Christian because it implies others are not. We are all flawed; we are not without sin. 



Diana7 said:


> What do you think of what God says about truth and honesty?


Not a very empathetic way to approach something as painful and soul-searching as what she, and others here, are going through. If I hadn't "met" @JustTheWife here, who knows, I might not have had the empathy required to continue with my own marriage, since her situation is not entirely unlike my wife's. Except that I suspected and then found out for sure about my wife's past, and it has been a horrifyingly-painful process for both of us. But it helps to see my wife's past (albeit a bit lighter version) through @JustTheWife 's posts. A polite way of saying we should not appear to be quite so judgmental here.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> I've acknowledged here many times that I know it's a very serious sin to lie or withhold the truth from my husband. It's also a serious sin what i did with all those other men.
> 
> On the topic of different beliefs of Christians and different "kinds" of Christians, I need to tell you that both my husband and I had extensive religious teaching (not together but very similar "Christian" teachings). We've discussed this here before but part of that teaching (just one example of many with a very similar theme) involved passing a piece of unwrapped gooey candy around the room. Handled by many people. Then it got to the end and we were asked who wants to have it to eat. The punchline was "Nobody wants it. It's nasty. It's disgusting. Throw it in the garbage." All complete with the sound effects of "ughhh...ewwww" from all the kids. Then the connection was made that the candy represents a girl.
> 
> ...


I grew up in Churches like that, so you and especially your husband have my pity. Christianity without forgiveness sucks. I can't think of a worse religion possible. Why anyone would want believe and follow that is beyond me. It's all just guilt and judgment. Hell even the old testament had a way for forgiveness. I have to doubt people who say they are Christians and don't understand forgiveness. FORGIVENESS IS LITERALLY THE WHOLE AND ONLY POINT. If you don't get that, then you don't get it. Luckily I don't have to understand I just know I want them the hell away from me. 

The best thing is NOT YOU, NOR YOUR HUSBAND'S opinion matter when it comes to that. 



> Matthew 18:
> 
> 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
> 
> ...


I don't think you our your Husband know the bible as well as you think you do. I wonder if God will bring up that candy when everyone in that little circle of yours stands before him? Good thing in our sin he didn't say - "Nobody wants you. Your nasty. Your disgusting. Throw it in the garbage."


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> I've acknowledged here many times that I know it's a very serious sin to lie or withhold the truth from my husband. It's also a serious sin what i did with all those other men.
> 
> On the topic of different beliefs of Christians and different "kinds" of Christians, I need to tell you that both my husband and I had extensive religious teaching (not together but very similar "Christian" teachings). We've discussed this here before but part of that teaching (just one example of many with a very similar theme) involved passing a piece of unwrapped gooey candy around the room. Handled by many people. Then it got to the end and we were asked who wants to have it to eat. The punchline was "Nobody wants it. It's nasty. It's disgusting. Throw it in the garbage." All complete with the sound effects of "ughhh...ewwww" from all the kids. Then the connection was made that the candy represents a girl.
> 
> ...


If he is very intelligent then he should be able to acknowledge and understand that not all we hear is of God. Yes having many sexual partners does harm us spiritually, but as you know if we come to God then it can be dealt with.

Your past if repented of is forgiven by God. Trouble is, that the lying and deception cant be repented of because you are still doing it daily. Its wrong and God probably will not let it go because its bad for you to live this way, it will stop you from progressing spiritually, and its deceitful to your husband. 

Who knows God may use your honesty(if you ever do the right thing) to help your husband to learn and grow in his understanding of forgiveness and compassion. It may even bring you closer eventually. Not saying that it wont be very challenging, but either way, its damaging to you and the marriage the way it is now. If you tell him a weight will lift off you no matter what happens. Your fear is stopping you from doing the right thing. Trust God and do it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

sokillme said:


> I grew up in Churches like that, so you and especially your husband have my pity. Christianity without forgiveness sucks. I can't think of a worse religion possible. Why anyone would want believe and follow that is beyond me. It's all just guilt and judgment. Hell even the old testament had a way for forgiveness. I have to doubt people who say they are Christians and don't understand forgiveness. FORGIVENESS IS LITERALLY THE WHOLE AND ONLY POINT. If you don't get that, then you don't get it. Luckily I don't have to understand I just know I want them the hell away from me.
> 
> The best thing is NOT YOU, NOR YOUR HUSBAND'S opinion matter when it comes to that.
> 
> ...


Yep.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> Well into a relationship is not the right time to say "I do not talk about my past relationships" if a false narrative has already been in use. If it had never come up, then maybe. The real key is for couples to fully understand not just boundaries but differing notions of privacy before committing to marriage. It is beyond unfair for each to profess to being open while in fact one is not.
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> ...


One thing that I have learnt in life is that lying is always damaging. Its just not worth it, especially in a marriage. Ok it wont be easy telling her husband but I am not going to lie and say its ok to carry on lying just our of fear of what may happen. Sometimes in life we have to do hard things, challenging things, things that mean we have to trust God and get out of the boat not knowing what may happen. Yes in many ways its easier to just carry on in the deception, but its not going to stop the guilt or change the past or help the marriage grow and strengthen.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> One thing that I have learnt in life is that lying is always damaging. Its just not worth it, especially in a marriage. Ok it wont be easy telling her husband but I am not going to lie and say its ok to carry on lying just our of fear of what may happen. Sometimes in life we have to do hard things, challenging things, things that mean we have to trust God and get out of the boat not knowing what may happen. Yes in many ways its easier to just carry on in the deception, but its not going to stop the guilt or change the past or help the marriage grow and strengthen.


You've likely read enough of my posts to know that I'm 100% in agreement with you on this. It's a tough one because so much of getting ahead, obtaining an advantage so you "do better", may involve little white lies which don't seem individually harmful but work to create a growing dark area in your soul. 

I think it much easier to keep from doing damage than trying to effect repair. What I try, in everything I do, is consider this simple thing. Is doing this going to make the world a tiny bit better place, or a tiny bit worse? Always try to do the better. For the world, not for myself. Getting those two in alignment, as much as possible, has greatly helped me avoid situations where lying would be considered an reasonable option.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Yep.


I regret that I wrote pity, I should have wrote sympathy. Sympathy is more what I was trying to say there.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> One thing that I have learnt in life is that lying is always damaging. Its just not worth it, especially in a marriage. Ok it wont be easy telling her husband but I am not going to lie and say its ok to carry on lying just our of fear of what may happen. Sometimes in life we have to do hard things, challenging things, things that mean we have to trust God and get out of the boat not knowing what may happen. Yes in many ways its easier to just carry on in the deception, but its not going to stop the guilt or change the past or help the marriage grow and strengthen.


Question for all. On another thread, there were a lot of people seeming to say that it's wise or normal to lie about "how good" exes or other lovers were in bed? Save the feelings. Some guys might ask if other guys had bigger penises. Some might ask if their other partners were "good in bed". Not uncommon questions, I would think. Also, it seems, not uncommon to tell a "little white lie" to save your husband's (or wife's) feelings. 

"No, sweetheart, you're the best lover I've ever had." "Yours is the biggest I've ever had". Those other guys were just stupid mistakes. Never really enjoyed it that much. No, he never made me come like you do. 

I'm not trying to make my situation seem better or make excuses but isn't this common lying similar to wanting to protect feelings on number of lovers? Is my lie (or omission) worse than lying to your husband by saying that he is the biggest you've ever had? What about the common underestimating about numbers. Mine is more extreme but is it really "a worse lie" than a woman saying "oh i'm not realy sure, about 8 guys"? When in reality it's 10 and you know it's 10? Or 12? Or 18?

Again, i'm not trying to minimize my lying issue but just making the point that lying about sex is very common and isn't a lie just a lie? 

Any views on this?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

JustTheWife said:


> Question for all. On another thread, there were a lot of people seeming to say that it's wise or normal to lie about "how good" exes or other lovers were in bed? Save the feelings. Some guys might ask if other guys had bigger penises. Some might ask if their other partners were "good in bed". Not uncommon questions, I would think. Also, it seems, not uncommon to tell a "little white lie" to save your husband's (or wife's) feelings.
> 
> "No, sweetheart, you're the best lover I've ever had." "Yours is the biggest I've ever had". Those other guys were just stupid mistakes. Never really enjoyed it that much. No, he never made me come like you do.
> 
> ...


My view is that I don't want to know. Intellectually, I'm very aware of my wife's past in an extremely detailed fashion. But I never asked her for any of it, and honestly I'd just rather keep it to what I need to know in terms of knowing who she is and what works and doesn't work. Intellectually, I'm very happy she had good sex with other guys, because she likes sex and isn't super hung up about it. And she knows what she likes and what she doesn't, so that's good. I've often told her she could be a sex therapist.

I also think about my past very infrequently. For some reason, when I do, I seem to be posting here. But in general I don't. Just now, I had to think for a while to remember who the first girl I slept with was. I couldn't tell you who the next girl I slept with was. I remember the girls I loved - one in high school, my ex wife, the girl I dated right after, and my current wife. But in terms of sex, I just don't remember that much.

In terms of "truth" I think there's 'The Truth' and then there's 'the truth.' The former is an extremely detailed and graphic description of a past that you may or may not even remember correctly. Then there's people you fooled around with, does that count? Does a BJ count? Maybe. Does kissing a woman and getting her top off count? Maybe not. Etc. 

If you need 'The Truth' of someone's past, then I guess I would ask you what you're going to do with that, and if they even know or remember correctly. And if you're going to hold them to something they tried with someone else and didn't like it, or they just don't want to do it any more. Or what the point of it all is.

For me, I'd rather have 'the truth.' Which, to me, is the biggies: what you know you like, what you know you don't like. What you will never do so don't ask. General themes of past sexual relationships that help inform me who you are, or at least were. For me, the number one there was if you've ever cheated on someone, or were the other person. To me, that was an integrity question, not a promiscuity question. Then came things like group sex, or sex with a woman, swinging, stuff like that... more as a curiosity and a grounding than anything. To get a sense of how she viewed sex.

Aside from that, I just didn't care to know. It's not relevant to me, nor is it useful for me to know. If she needs to tell me something that I need to know as her partner - or her friend, then we talk about it. But that's it.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

JustTheWife said:


> Also, it seems, not uncommon to tell a "little white lie" to save your husband's (or wife's) feelings.
> lying about sex is very common and isn't a lie just a lie?


A lie is just a lie. Agreed. There are no "worse" or "better" lies.

We know. We know when you're lying to protect our feelings. We then understand what the truth is, that you have had guys with bigger penises, you have had guys that you enjoyed in bed more than us.

We also know that "stupid mistake" is not reality. You made a CHOICE to have sex with that guy. And, most likely, your choice was because you WANTED to have sex with that guy, not like us, who you wanted for "marriage material" while there was no "material" in the "marriage".....at least, not for us....

The truth does hurt us. No doubt about that. It may not be within our belief-system to go find another wife on such a basis. However, the lie has a secondary effect. We are not hurt by the lie. We are hurt by the truth, whether or not you have told it to us. The truth remains the truth, and we DO KNOW.

But, there is room for us to improve sexually, this would occur through encouragement from you. But, the lie has destroyed our trust in what you say. Your edification has been nulled, and we have no other morally-acceptable source from whom to receive it.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

TJW said:


> A lie is just a lie. Agreed. There are no "worse" or "better" lies.
> 
> We know. We know when you're lying to protect our feelings. We then understand what the truth is, that you have had guys with bigger penises, you have had guys that you enjoyed in bed more than us.
> 
> ...


Why do you feel you have an absolute right to the absolute objective truth of what happened before she even knew you?

Why do you think memory provides an absolute objective accounting of what really happened?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Some interesting takes on this thread but I have found that the best thing to do is follow the advice I heard a long time ago.

"Never asked how she got so good, you don't want to know the answer"


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Numb26 said:


> Some interesting takes on this thread but I have found that the best thing to do is follow the advice I heard a long time ago.
> 
> "Never asked how she got so good, you don't want to know the answer"


Agreed, but I think about it more like "if she had good sex with attractive guys before me, and then only wants me, that must mean a lot."


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Marduk said:


> Why do you feel you have an absolute right to the absolute objective truth of what happened before she even knew you?


Because I am expected to sacrifice my own desires, my own ambitions, my labor-fruits, both past and present. It seems to me a reasonable ask, for something I can build my marriage upon.
Furthermore, I think I am owed it BEFORE I marry, when I can still decide to not marry.



Marduk said:


> Why do you think memory provides an absolute objective accounting of what really happened?


The "absolute objective truth" is truly quite irrelevant. What is relevant is my partner's current perception of what happened, how she remembers it.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

TJW said:


> Because I am expected to sacrifice my own desires, my own ambitions, my labor-fruits, both past and present. It seems to me a reasonable ask, for something I can build my marriage upon.
> Furthermore, I think I am owed it BEFORE I marry, when I can still decide to not marry.


Quick - tell me how much you've spent on every girlfriend you've ever had.

If you get a decimal place wrong, you're lying.



> The "absolute objective truth" is truly quite irrelevant. What is relevant is my partner's current perception of what happened, how she remembers it.


And what if she doesn't? Or she doesn't want to answer? Do you own her past?

There be dragons here, my friend.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

JustTheWife said:


> Question for all. On another thread, there were a lot of people seeming to say that it's wise or normal to lie about "how good" exes or other lovers were in bed? Save the feelings. Some guys might ask if other guys had bigger penises. Some might ask if their other partners were "good in bed". Not uncommon questions, I would think. Also, it seems, not uncommon to tell a "little white lie" to save your husband's (or wife's) feelings.
> 
> "No, sweetheart, you're the best lover I've ever had." "Yours is the biggest I've ever had". Those other guys were just stupid mistakes. Never really enjoyed it that much. No, he never made me come like you do.
> 
> ...


I don't think lying about ex partners is a good idea either. You can choose a politically-correct answer that is not a lie, is sensitive to your partner's feelings, and captures the real meaning of what it is to be in love and making love with your partner. You can explain that (assuming that it's true) marriage is a total package and the best sex in the world is sex within a context that is part of a wonderful relationship. Sex can be a part of intimacy, and it's intimacy that is needed decade after decade, not just a good F__k. When there's a scenario on which there have been a number of past partners to "compare" then doesn't that make this an even-better approach because, after all, THIS is the person you chose, not the one with the bigger penis or better technique or whatever. 

This holds up only if it's true. Only if it really is the case this is the best partner for you, only if you aren't living a life of regret. In which case, you have bigger issues that can't be solved by bedside manner.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

My take on this is, on the occasions a question was asked, though not intentionally l may feel that the reply can be both condescending and patronizing if you do not reveal the truth to me. And as to the truth is concerned, if l ask the question then l expect the truth, but because, l know where the truth will take me to that place of no return. Be it said, be careful of what you ask for.

I am and will always be in the house of truth, because if knowingly you lie then you have degraded my worth base on you belief and not mine you have take from me the value of my heart, soul and love. And chose to put your worth over mine! And it is not to think l am better than her, but expect the faithfulness of marriage to mean something greater than the one.

But because of the ritual of dating before marriage l have already explained and focused on the value of truthfulness, and as and if we advance the relationship to marriage. If she would like the truth from me then l expect the truth from her. 

This is not to say because of this, that my intention is to harm or devalue her in any way. But rather as a means to bring the marriage to the level, that is truly expected. But if it is not revealed and is found out later, is the reason to end the illusion of marriage based on a lie.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

I'm thinking that this is a pretty murky area based on the very different views of how people should handle disclosure of sexual past. To be clear, I believe it's wrong that I omitted the truth from my husband after we started dating (when i mislead him - never outright lied), that was before we were even dating. Just friends and more like acquaintances.

It seems like some people (probably many or even most) believe that a woman is not obligated to share all her details, including potentially hurtful ones like past lovers with bigger penises or maybe doing certain acts like anal. And the whole minefield of if you enjoyed it, if the guys were good lovers, if you came a little or a lot or not at all, etc.

But why is that "wise" to avoid those hurtful things but keeping my number secret from my husband is sinful and an awful lie? As someone else said, isn't a lie a lie?

Why aren't women (and men), for example, obligated to disclose that they've had anal sex? Is it a sin if a woman does not tell her husband about it?

The argument seems to be that "it's clear that my past would be important to my husband. But with other kinds of lying about sex that people seem to be condoning, there is no way to know what he would or would not care about. And if the reason for not telling him is that you fear it would hurt him, then by definition, he cares about it. It's important to him.

Are we coming to the conclusion that ALL significant sexual experience should be disclosed to spouses. NOTHING kept hidden. Openness about everything is the best way? Isn't anything else just selective "bad lie" vs "OK lie". Who are we to judge what is an OK lie vs a bad lie?

Sorry sometimes I think too much!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Casual Observer said:


> I don't think lying about ex partners is a good idea either. You can choose a politically-correct answer that is not a lie, is sensitive to your partner's feelings, and captures the real meaning of what it is to be in love and making love with your partner. You can explain that (assuming that it's true) marriage is a total package and the best sex in the world is sex within a context that is part of a wonderful relationship. Sex can be a part of intimacy, and it's intimacy that is needed decade after decade, not just a good F__k. When there's a scenario on which there have been a number of past partners to "compare" then doesn't that make this an even-better approach because, after all, THIS is the person you chose, not the one with the bigger penis or better technique or whatever.
> 
> This holds up only if it's true. Only if it really is the case this is the best partner for you, only if you aren't living a life of regret. In which case, you have bigger issues that can't be solved by bedside manner.


I think that's a good path. It would really matter to me if she liked sex with someone else more than me and was somehow settling for me, sexually. Not regarding something I can learn to push her buttons better on, but something more systemic like our physical or chemical legos just don't click as well.

Like, if there was some guy she was pining for physically/sexually but he dumped her, and then she settled for me... well that would suck.

But if she had crazy sex with some other LTR that was better than we were when we were first together, because we didn't know each other... well, that's just reality and to be expected. I'm a dedicated student and am confident I can move to the head of the class quickly.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Casual Observer said:


> I don't think lying about ex partners is a good idea either. You can choose a politically-correct answer that is not a lie, is sensitive to your partner's feelings, and captures the real meaning of what it is to be in love and making love with your partner. You can explain that (assuming that it's true) marriage is a total package and the best sex in the world is sex within a context that is part of a wonderful relationship. Sex can be a part of intimacy, and it's intimacy that is needed decade after decade, not just a good F__k. When there's a scenario on which there have been a number of past partners to "compare" then doesn't that make this an even-better approach because, after all, THIS is the person you chose, not the one with the bigger penis or better technique or whatever.
> 
> This holds up only if it's true. Only if it really is the case this is the best partner for you, only if you aren't living a life of regret. In which case, you have bigger issues that can't be solved by bedside manner.


I understand what you're saying but the truth is the truth. I never directly lied to my husband, even before we started dating. I hate lying so i was sneaky in my answers (again, all before we started dating). I still have no problem if someone says I did lie. I did lie in that i let him wrongly assume the situation (taht i was a virgin based on my saying that i thought virginity was important before marriage).

So I don't really understand the "politically correct" answers (I didn't try to sugar coat it, i said i was sneaky). Aren't those lies in the end? I mean, they are "omissions" if they are meant to twist the truth or to mislead in any way.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Marduk said:


> I think that's a good path. It would really matter to me if she liked sex with someone else more than me and was somehow settling for me, sexually. Not regarding something I can learn to push her buttons better on, but something more systemic like our physical or chemical legos just don't click as well.
> 
> Like, if there was some guy she was pining for physically/sexually but he dumped her, and then she settled for me... well that would suck.
> 
> But if she had crazy sex with some other LTR that was better than we were when we were first together, because we didn't know each other... well, that's just reality and to be expected. I'm a dedicated student and am confident I can move to the head of the class quickly.


Are we saying that it's lying if she enjoyed sex more with another guy (maybe bigger penis or better chemistry or pushed her buttons better) but didn't tell her husband that? Sexuality is important in a relationship and generally in life so aren't women obligated to disclose that they had a super lover with a very big penis? asking because everyone thinks i'm obligated to tell my husband that i've had sex with other guys. Lie/omission is a lie/omission, isn't it?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

JustTheWife said:


> Marduk said:
> 
> 
> > I think that's a good path. It would really matter to me if she liked sex with someone else more than me and was somehow settling for me, sexually. Not regarding something I can learn to push her buttons better on, but something more systemic like our physical or chemical legos just don't click as well.
> ...


It's a toss up between the Lie/Omission and the potential can of worms that could be opened by disclosure. 
I guess it all depends on your partner. My STBXW asked me once after she performing oral if she was the best I ever had. How should I have answered that? Is there a right answer? 
To me, questions like that shouldn't be asked. Instead 2 people should be concentrating on making what they have better. Some people are not able to process that kind if information.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

JustTheWife said:


> Are we saying that it's lying if she enjoyed sex more with another guy (maybe bigger penis or better chemistry or pushed her buttons better) but didn't tell her husband that? Sexuality is important in a relationship and generally in life so aren't women obligated to disclose that they had a super lover with a very big penis? asking because everyone thinks i'm obligated to tell my husband that i've had sex with other guys. Lie/omission is a lie/omission, isn't it?


personally, i prefer honesty. if someone was better in bed than me, then ill ask what made it better and try to get better myself. i cant exactly do anything about the size of my penis, but my issue has never been that i am too small. i have always been kinda self conscious about it, but for the opposite reason... i have torn every partner i have ever had sex with.

i much prefer honesty, but at the same time, i know that most people typically dont.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

JustTheWife said:


> Are we coming to the conclusion that ALL significant sexual experience should be disclosed to spouses. NOTHING kept hidden. Openness about everything is the best way?


That would be my conclusion.

I would also conclude that it would be the best choice for me, as an inexperienced guy, to not marry an experienced woman who compares me unfavorably to men in her past. It becomes a "stumbling block" that may be insurmountable in the marriage.

And, we are not the "judge". The Judge has spoken on this subject. And The Judge says "....I change not...". If there were "permissable" lies, The Judge would have told us. We either believe The Judge has our best interest at heart in His laws, or we don't. But what we believe does not change The Judge, or His law.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

JustTheWife said:


> Are we saying that it's lying if she enjoyed sex more with another guy (maybe bigger penis or better chemistry or pushed her buttons better) but didn't tell her husband that? Sexuality is important in a relationship and generally in life so aren't women obligated to disclose that they had a super lover with a very big penis? asking because everyone thinks i'm obligated to tell my husband that i've had sex with other guys. Lie/omission is a lie/omission, isn't it?


Nah - what I'm saying is that I'd want to know if she's settling for me and wanted some other guy more. Or if she was "meh" for me about sex but "wow" about me for other reasons.

I guess I'd just want to know where I stood with her. Other guys are really only for context, I guess, like if she'd really rather be with some other guy in the sack than me, but just wants me because I'm good to her or safe or whatever.

I don't want to be "meh" in any category. I want it all, or I want nothing. I can accept the potential to be awesome but haven't realized it yet, but I don't think I could accept not knowing that I would never be awesome for her, and some other dude was a better fit and I couldn't change it. I guess I'd just move on if that was the case.

I don't agree with a detailed cross examination of her past so I can judge it in minute detail. I do agree with not being mislead that she thinks I'm awesome in the sack, but really I'll never be as good as someone else. But some guys are just ok with their wife thinking they're just OK because sex isn't a priority to them or whatever. Guys settle, too. I did in marriage #1. I sure wasn't going to in marriage #2.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Am I the only one that really only has hazy memories of their ex's, or what the sex was like?

I mean, there's no kind of running '9.9 from the Russian judges' going on in my head when I have sex. There's "I want this" or "I like that" or "that's surprising" at best. Mostly it's "mmm... boobies." And to remember what an ex's BJs was like or whatever? I mean, I kind of remember a few standout situations, but even then they stand out because of a funny situation, or a particular location, or whatever. Not 'Suzie got a bronze medal in BJs, Jane got a silver, and Lucie takes the gold' based on raw suction or whatever.

Each time was fairly different, each of them was a different personality on top of that. Mostly what I remember is generalities like enthusiasm, openness, kinkiness, and if they were hot naked or not.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Marduk said:


> I don't think I could accept not knowing that I would never be awesome for her, and some other dude was a better fit and I couldn't change it.


I couldn't, I didn't. It ruined everything.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Marduk said:


> Am I the only one that really only has hazy memories of their ex's, or what the sex was like?
> 
> I mean, there's no kind of running '9.9 from the Russian judges' going on in my head when I have sex. There's "I want this" or "I like that" or "that's surprising" at best. Mostly it's "mmm... boobies." And to remember what an ex's BJs was like or whatever? I mean, I kind of remember a few standout situations, but even then they stand out because of a funny situation, or a particular location, or whatever. Not 'Suzie got a bronze medal in BJs, Jane got a silver, and Lucie takes the gold' based on raw suction or whatever.
> 
> Each time was fairly different, each of them was a different personality on top of that. Mostly what I remember is generalities like enthusiasm, openness, kinkiness, and if they were hot naked or not.


It's not just you. I only remember the bad parts of sex with my ex's


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> Question for all. On another thread, there were a lot of people seeming to say that it's wise or normal to lie about "how good" exes or other lovers were in bed? Save the feelings. Some guys might ask if other guys had bigger penises. Some might ask if their other partners were "good in bed". Not uncommon questions, I would think. Also, it seems, not uncommon to tell a "little white lie" to save your husband's (or wife's) feelings.
> 
> "No, sweetheart, you're the best lover I've ever had." "Yours is the biggest I've ever had". Those other guys were just stupid mistakes. Never really enjoyed it that much. No, he never made me come like you do.
> 
> ...


I have no idea of lying about sex is common, but if it is that's very sad. Honesty for me is vital, and if a man didn't agree with that then he isn't for me. 
We were both in long marriages before and we didn't really discuss our previous sex lives with our former spouses in detail, as we both knew that we were much happier with each other so what happened or didn't happen in sex with our exes wasn't something we needed to go into great detail about. My husband honestly doesn't have a jealous bone in his body and is very secure in himself. If he had asked me more I would have answered him honestly. I am always prepared to be honest about my past. 

I really don't think that this is the same as your situation though, where to be honest its a constant daily deception really. I honestly have no idea how you can hide something so vital from your husband.
How do you justify it to yourself? or God?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> I'm thinking that this is a pretty murky area based on the very different views of how people should handle disclosure of sexual past. To be clear, I believe it's wrong that I omitted the truth from my husband after we started dating (when i mislead him - never outright lied), that was before we were even dating. Just friends and more like acquaintances.
> 
> It seems like some people (probably many or even most) believe that a woman is not obligated to share all her details, including potentially hurtful ones like past lovers with bigger penises or maybe doing certain acts like anal. And the whole minefield of if you enjoyed it, if the guys were good lovers, if you came a little or a lot or not at all, etc.
> 
> ...


I do think its important that we disclose these important things, such as if we have had anal, threesomes, fetishes, been to prostitutes etc. How can we make such an important decision as to who we marry if there are all these hidden secrets?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Numb26 said:


> It's not just you. I only remember the bad parts of sex with my ex's


Oh god yes. The "ugh" or "you want what?" or "wow, those don't look at all like I imagined" or "wow, that's hairy."


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Marduk said:


> Numb26 said:
> 
> 
> > It's not just you. I only remember the bad parts of sex with my ex's
> ...


Those are better then "are you done yet?"

I just think asking is just a bad move all around. What does it accomplish besides hurt feelings, RJ or feelings of inadequacy? To me, when 2 people get together it's a clean slate to build new memories. Just how I see it


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Numb26 said:


> Those are better then "are you done yet?"
> 
> I just think asking is just a bad move all around. What does it accomplish besides hurt feelings, RJ or feelings of inadequacy? To me, when 2 people get together it's a clean slate to build new memories. Just how I see it


"what's that smell?"

"who's name is on that tattoo?"

"I didn't know you could pierce that."

"I don't think that's supposed to happen."

"what was that, sorry, I fell asleep for a minute."

"why is some guy banging on the window?"

"no, farting during sex _isn't_ cute."

"it burns!"

"ouch, no teeth!"

All things I'm pretty sure I've said at one point or another somewhere along the way. Man, I'm such an idiot.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Marduk said:


> Numb26 said:
> 
> 
> > Those are better then "are you done yet?"
> ...


Better be careful, don't want to be excused of thread jacking or saying anything disgusting LOL


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

TJW said:


> Because I am expected to sacrifice my own desires, my own ambitions, my labor-fruits, both past and present. It seems to me a reasonable ask, for something I can build my marriage upon.
> Furthermore, I think I am owed it BEFORE I marry, when I can still decide to not marry.
> 
> 
> ...


I like where you're going with this. My "perception" of it can change in different situations. From "it never happened" to "OMG!!!" to everything in between according to what i want to believe at the time. So the "absolute objective truth" is irrelevant and what matters is what I choose to think about it at any point in time.

For my husband, I want it to be that he's the only one who ever had me. So that could be "my truth" when that's convenient. Other times I might like to "reminisce" I might want to perceive that it wasn't a one night stand. We were in love. My prince charming. I like the idea that i can arrange all of the "video clips" of my sex life just as I want them. I can even delete clips as needed. In college I took a video editing class. I picture myself arranging the "video clips" exactly as I want over and over to weave the story that I want to tell and more importantly that I want to truly believe.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> I have no idea of lying about sex is common, but if it is that's very sad. Honesty for me is vital, and if a man didn't agree with that then he isn't for me.
> We were both in long marriages before and we didn't really discuss our previous sex lives with our former spouses in detail, as we both knew that we were much happier with each other so what happened or didn't happen in sex with our exes wasn't something we needed to go into great detail about. My husband honestly doesn't have a jealous bone in his body and is very secure in himself. If he had asked me more I would have answered him honestly. I am always prepared to be honest about my past.
> 
> I really don't think that this is the same as your situation though, where to be honest its a constant daily deception really. I honestly have no idea how you can hide something so vital from your husband.
> How do you justify it to yourself? or God?


Why do you think that my omission of my previous sexual experience is a "constant daily deception" while your own omission of aspects of your own sexual experience is justified because you are "much happier".

Why don't you sit him down and tell him all of the dirty details. Best to be open and completely honest. Why hide that from him?

Unless my husband asks me straight out about my past and I lie, then it seems that you and I are in pretty much the same place. I also think we are much happier. Do you think your "lies" or "omissions" are just less serious so they are ok? Others have said to great agreement, "a lie is a lie".

I'm not trying to pick on anyone but it's confusing what people's views are on this. It's all over the place.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

JustTheWife said:


> I understand what you're saying but the truth is the truth. I never directly lied to my husband, even before we started dating. I hate lying so i was sneaky in my answers (again, all before we started dating). I still have no problem if someone says I did lie. I did lie in that i let him wrongly assume the situation (taht i was a virgin based on my saying that i thought virginity was important before marriage).
> 
> So I don't really understand the "politically correct" answers (I didn't try to sugar coat it, i said i was sneaky). Aren't those lies in the end? I mean, they are "omissions" if they are meant to twist the truth or to mislead in any way.


There is a big difference between a binary scenario (you did or did not have sex with anyone else) and comparing any aspect of a relationship which, by its nature, is subjective, not objective.

When I said "politically correct" I meant in terms of deference to how the other person will receive the information. You can give the same details in very different fashion. "Yes, he was bigger than you, and I enjoyed sex more" vs "It doesn't really matter to me that you're not the biggest; what matters is that I enjoy being with you more than anyone else I've been with. It's the total package and I chose you, not some guy who might have been bigger but didn't make me as happy as you do." Or something like that. No lies, no omissions, just different presentation. If he asks for details, fine, give him details but try to understand where he is coming from and explain, if need be, that he might not like some of the answers, but you love your life with him (your husband).

And if he asks if you fantasize about any of the other guys, and it turns out you do, what do you tell him then? I hope I'm far enough away not to feel the blast when that bomb goes off! Because being truthful, how do you treat that one?


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

[Delete.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> And if he asks if you fantasize about any of the other guys, and it turns out you do, what do you tell him then? I hope I'm far enough away not to feel the blast when that bomb goes off! Because being truthful, how do you treat that one?


A good point made, and could be a thread in it's self. CO


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I have no idea of lying about sex is common, but if it is that's very sad. Honesty for me is vital, and if a man didn't agree with that then he isn't for me.
> We were both in long marriages before and we didn't really discuss our previous sex lives with our former spouses in detail, as we both knew that we were much happier with each other so what happened or didn't happen in sex with our exes wasn't something we needed to go into great detail about. My husband honestly doesn't have a jealous bone in his body and is very secure in himself. If he had asked me more I would have answered him honestly. I am always prepared to be honest about my past.
> 
> I really don't think that this is the same as your situation though, where to be honest its a constant daily deception really. I honestly have no idea how you can hide something so vital from your husband.
> How do you justify it to yourself? or God?





Diana7 said:


> I do think its important that we disclose these important things, such as if we have had anal, threesomes, fetishes, been to prostitutes etc. How can we make such an important decision as to who we marry if there are all these hidden secrets?


This is somewhat at odds with your prior statement that you didn't "need" to go into great detail about your and your fiance's prior sex life before marriage. You apparently agreed to a certain level of privacy regarding such, which is fine. But what it really means is that you agreed to hide things from your spouse. There could be anal (I doubt it likely for your other examples) but you opted for "don't ask, don't tell." Which again is fine, but it does not mean you know for certain what didn't happen. You only know what you agreed to tell each other.



JustTheWife said:


> Why do you think that my omission of my previous sexual experience is a "constant daily deception" while your own omission of aspects of your own sexual experience is justified because you are "much happier".
> 
> Why don't you sit him down and tell him all of the dirty details. Best to be open and completely honest. Why hide that from him?
> 
> ...


Did you agree with your husband to not discuss your past? As I said, whether specific or implied, their's is a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. 

Perhaps the biggest difference here is that your past is in striking contrast to your narrative, and you have done nothing to dispel the myth of that narrative. Now it's entirely possible that @Diana7 's husband may have a past that's in contrast to her perceived narrative of him as well, but she doesn't know/has no idea. She's making assumptions about the man he is based on observation, not discussion or fact.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

@JustTheWife

Are you okay with knowing you tricked your husband into marrying you through your lies of omission?

I get the feeling you are because you seem to want to rationalize/contemplate it to death but it doesn't appear you have any plan of telling him. You were worried about what he'd think of you if he knew. That's who you are/were whether he knows or not. You're not being true to yourself either, just an actress playing a part. As others have told you these things have a nasty habit of revealing themselves in time no matter how well you think you've buried it. The fact that you've been married an extremely short time bodes way better for the outcome if you fess up now vs. his discovering it years down the road. It's your roll of the dice, but once they are cast and the window of opportunity closes you buy the ticket and take the ride. You may not like where that ride takes you and your psyche.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

JustTheWife said:


> Why do you think that my omission of my previous sexual experience is a "constant daily deception" while your own omission of aspects of your own sexual experience is justified because you are "much happier".
> 
> Why don't you sit him down and tell him all of the dirty details. Best to be open and completely honest. Why hide that from him?
> 
> ...


No, I don't think you and Diana7 are analogous at all.

I'm not trying to be cruel, but it really comes off like you are trying to rationalize this. It's like you're trying to lump your deceiving your husband about an important value he has about marriage into the same group with a spouse's efforts at ego support. 


First of all, you say that views are "all over the place", but that's because there's different people with different opinions. Some care about partner's pasts, some don't. But if you're going to accuse people of being "all over the place", that only makes sense in the setting of your current argument if you show that ONE person has conflicting/contradictory opinions on these topics. 

Secondly, deceiving your husband about being a virgin/low number experience and managing the facts of a prior lover's skills are NOT equivalent. The first is a statement of straight out fact that (in your husband's case and in similar cases) is a critically important issue for him. Other guys don't care about prior experience (or even want their wife to have a LOT of experience/skills to bring to the table) as shown by the responses here. But that doesn't matter, because you're not married to those other guys. You're married to a man who thinks the sexual act should be sacred, bonding, transcendental and NOT just a physical pursuit of fun/orgasm all for its own ends. So those other opinions which are "all over the place" are irrelevant. The point being is that this point become an absolute on your husband's checklist of important characteristics for a spouse. 

On the other hand, a prior lover's skills (or even size of his manhood) can be presented in a way to avoid being hurtful, as @Casual Observer has mentioned. Regardless of a prior lover's mechanical skills or attributes, I should hope that a current spouse should still provide a wonderful sexual experience---if not there will invariably be trouble down the road, so it needs to be addressed to correct that. And so, the truth can still be said, but in a way that avoids unnecessary hurt. So a prior lover who was bigger can be described as "too big", or "Although he was bigger, he just didn't have the same effect, I never enjoyed making love with anyone more than you", and so forth. 

Look, a guy who is below average in his manhood knows he is, and if he knows his spouse has had many lovers, he's obviously going to know that at least SOME were bigger than him. He's not stupid. But if he is told that the whole "making love" event (as opposed to just "having sex") is the greatest experience for his wife, then he will have his ego preserved. Just like a woman with a big butt knows it's big---so when she says "does this outfit make my butt look big?" she's actually asking for emotional support. A guy can respond, "It doesn't look big TO ME" (which is subjective) or "you're the best looking women out there, and your butt always looks sexy", or, if she really SHOULDN'T be wearing an unflattering outfit, "NO ONE can look good in that. The cut/tailoring is TERRIBLE. Let's get you a better made outfit."

The bottom line is, there has to be some criteria here. Otherwise, by your "white lie about a past lover's skill is no different than lying about being a virgin" comparison, there's really NO end to the lies you can make up, as long as it preserves your "happy" marriage. For example, then by that comparison, is there no MORAL difference between these falsehoods:
"you're the best lover I've ever had" and "No, I didn't have sex with the bridesmaid the night before the wedding". 
"you're the best lover I've ever had" and "No, I never had a period where I pursued same-sex relationships with another guy"
"you're the best lover I've ever had" and "No, I've never had sex with an unconscious woman passed out in an alley" (like Brock Turner, the Stanford swimmer)
and so on.

At some point you have to say, "this is primarily a statement to support my partner's self-esteem" and this OTHER statement/series of actions is instead "a deception which robs my spouse of something that was profoundly important to him". Trying to conflate the two seems very self-serving and frankly isn't very convincing that you truly have empathy for what you have taken from your husband.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

JustTheWife said:


> I picture myself arranging the "video clips" exactly as I want over and over to weave the story that I want to tell and more importantly that I want to truly believe.


And, I believe, with God's help and God's direction, you can align yourself completely to your husband. I'm not saying this is an easy process, only that you can. In fact, I can see that you have taken this path, by comparing your posts now to those of a year ago. In those posts, you were disappointed in your husband's sexual provision. I'm not sure whether you are or are not now, but you come across differently and give me reason for hope that you may, someday, with God's help, have a successful marriage and sexual fulfillment. And, I believe you can.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> This is somewhat at odds with your prior statement that you didn't "need" to go into great detail about your and your fiance's prior sex life before marriage. You apparently agreed to a certain level of privacy regarding such, which is fine. But what it really means is that you agreed to hide things from your spouse. There could be anal (I doubt it likely for your other examples) but you opted for "don't ask, don't tell." Which again is fine, but it does not mean you know for certain what didn't happen. You only know what you agreed to tell each other.
> 
> Did you agree with your husband to not discuss your past? As I said, whether specific or implied, their's is a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.
> 
> Perhaps the biggest difference here is that your past is in striking contrast to your narrative, and you have done nothing to dispel the myth of that narrative. Now it's entirely possible that @Diana7 's husband may have a past that's in contrast to her perceived narrative of him as well, but she doesn't know/has no idea. She's making assumptions about the man he is based on observation, not discussion or fact.


I think you misunderstood what I said. We both know about each others former boyfriends/girlfriends and each others former marriage. That we were married before, for how long and about the sort of sex that took place. We did discuss this over time, and both would be willing to answer any more questions if the other wanted to know. So no I don't hide anything, I was and am very open with him about my past. There isn't anything I would or could hide from him. 
I know that his past is what he told me, firstly he is completely honest, and secondly I have met many who know him from his past as well. Family and friends.


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## Dragan Jovanovic (Jan 16, 2019)

Youa guys should read OP post again. I think that she had over 100 partners,treesoms and possible gangbangs,when she says that she was " wery naive" in highschool, and then a "less naive" in coledge. If that is the case,then it makes a big diference. If someone tells me that she had 2 partners,i paint a certain picture in my head. If someone tells me that she had 249 partners and 6 of them at the same time,I have diferent picture of them you know. So,she is scared to tell him the truth becouse of fear that he will see her completly different. If number was 8 or 12, she would told him long time ago. Im afraid that the number is much,much bigger.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

TJW said:


> And, I believe, with God's help and God's direction, you can align yourself completely to your husband. I'm not saying this is an easy process, only that you can. In fact, I can see that you have taken this path, by comparing your posts now to those of a year ago. In those posts, you were disappointed in your husband's sexual provision. I'm not sure whether you are or are not now, but you come across differently and give me reason for hope that you may, someday, with God's help, have a successful marriage and sexual fulfillment. And, I believe you can.


The irony, I believe, is that @JustTheWife feels like she has much to offer her husband (and herself!), in the way of an improved sex life, but is held back by not being able to do so without revealing where she learned what she has to offer. It has to be immensely frustrating, and that's likely what was reflected in her earlier posts.

As for rationalization of why someone hasn't told or has actively hidden the truth about their past, I think many of us have come here, at least initially, with an idea of what does, or doesn't, need to be done, and looking for support for that position. Or a way to fine-tune a presentation by looking at how someone else in a similar situation handled it. I don't think many come here looking people to tell us we have to change. BUT-

If someone hangs around here long enough, they may get comfortable with the idea of change, more so than had they not. Especially as they gradually reveal their true self, and their relationship with people on TAM grows stronger.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Dragan Jovanovic said:


> Youa guys should read OP post again. I think that she had over 100 partners,treesoms and possible gangbangs,when she says that she was " wery naive" in highschool, and then a "less naive" in coledge. If that is the case,then it makes a big diference. If someone tells me that she had 2 partners,i paint a certain picture in my head. If someone tells me that she had 249 partners and 6 of them at the same time,I have diferent picture of them you know. So,she is scared to tell him the truth becouse of fear that he will see her completly different. If number was 8 or 12, she would told him long time ago. Im afraid that the number is much,much bigger.


There has been no clarification of anything from OP since her last post, which was I think November 17th? And the stats say she was last "active" (which I assumed means visited) on the 19th. So at this point we're having conversations that, for the most part, are dealing with the larger question posed by the OP (which was ButterlyPrincess) and not specifics.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

@Butterfly_Princess hasn't posted in a week and a half, but obviously people are passionate about this issue. I'm interested in whether she has made any move to tell her husband or has decided to remain silent about it.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Wolfman1968 said:


> No, I don't think you and Diana7 are analogous at all.
> 
> I'm not trying to be cruel, but it really comes off like you are trying to rationalize this. It's like you're trying to lump your deceiving your husband about an important value he has about marriage into the same group with a spouse's efforts at ego support.
> 
> ...


I'm very sorry but I read this 3 or 4 times and I don't really get your point. It's very confusing. You say that there "has to be some criteria here" (for what needs to be disclosed or what can be lied about or "omitted"). 

I think most of us would agree that it's simply not practical or wise to say that you are obligated to tell your spouse every single detail of your past sex life. For example, every single sex act and "flavor" of sex act that you've done. The fact that a former lover had a larger penis. etc, etc. By the way, these are all objective things, not subjective.

You then conclude with a "rule" that if you lie or omit facts to support your spouses self-esteem, then this is OK. This speaks to the intention of the lie or omission. "I can't tell him because it will kill his self-esteem". but your other choice is "a deception which robs my spouse of something that was profoundly important to him". I have no idea what this means. One is about the intent and the other is about the effect. In many cases the revealing of the stark truth will rob him of "something profoundly important to him". And keeping it hidden will "support his self esteem".

sorry I don't mean to pick on you but it's not clear at all.

Can ANYONE clearly explain their view of the things that are OK to omit from disclosing and what a woman (or man) is obligated to disclose. If one feels that some facts are OK to omit or outright lie about and others are evil, then people should be able to clearly explain this.

I don't mean to be difficult but i've been accused of my marriage being a "constant daily deception" and being build on lies. That I'm guilty of trickery, etc., etc. Then people basically say that it's normal to lie or omit some things from what they disclose about their sexual history. So if some lies are OK but others are "constant daily deception", what lies and omissions are OK and which are evil? Can anyone explain their view on this simply and clearly?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

JustTheWife said:


> If one feels that some facts are OK to omit or outright lie about and others are evil, then people should be able to clearly explain this.


I feel that deception about the simple facts is wrong. Number of previous partners, length of relationships, whether the relationships were sexual or platonic. And, before the marriage. Omission of these facts is misrepresentation. Coming to an altar of marriage implies these questions, especially for people of Christian faith, who all understand, in their heart-of-hearts, that they should be arriving there in virginity.

I don't feel that it is wrong to not "volunteer" information as to the details, kinds of sex acts, anatomical dimensions, role-play, etc. However, if the point-blank question is asked, it must be answered truthfully. Any question which is not asked need not be answered, and is likely better unanswered.

"Outright lie" is, under no circumstances, justifiable.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> I'm very sorry but I read this 3 or 4 times and I don't really get your point. It's very confusing. You say that there "has to be some criteria here" (for what needs to be disclosed or what can be lied about or "omitted").
> 
> I think most of us would agree that it's simply not practical or wise to say that you are obligated to tell your spouse every single detail of your past sex life. For example, every single sex act and "flavor" of sex act that you've done. The fact that a former lover had a larger penis. etc, etc. By the way, these are all objective things, not subjective.
> 
> ...


I think that you are trying very hard to justify what you are doing by claiming that we must all be lairs as well so its ok.
Honestly I don't think we should lie about our past sex lives at all, but that's irrelevant to what you need to do, especially as a woman who follows God. 
I believe that we should all be prepared to answer any question we are asked, and to be open about these things. 

Its your fear that stops you from doing the right thing, understandable but it will get worse as time passes. The burden that you are carrying will get heavier until you finally put it down.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

JustTheWife said:


> Can ANYONE clearly explain their view of the things that are OK to omit from disclosing and what a woman (or man) is obligated to disclose. If one feels that some facts are OK to omit or outright lie about and others are evil, then people should be able to clearly explain this.
> 
> I don't mean to be difficult but i've been accused of my marriage being a "constant daily deception" and being build on lies. That I'm guilty of trickery, etc., etc. Then people basically say that it's normal to lie or omit some things from what they disclose about their sexual history. So if some lies are OK but others are "constant daily deception", what lies and omissions are OK and which are evil? Can anyone explain their view on this simply and clearly?


Clearly explain what's OK to omit? There is no single answer to that, because it depends entirely upon each partner's expectations of the other. If he or she has expressed a desire to have no secrets in marriage, and the other agreed, then you're kinda screwed hiding things if asked. You don't have to volunteer, but you cannot hide and deceive.

OK, let's make it really simple. If you omitted, lied or deceived BECAUSE you were concerned that, if your partner knew, he or she might walk... then you screwed up. Period. It might be that simple. It's you making a call based on selfishness, creating an unfair situation for your partner. I'm making a general case, not a case specific to you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

JustTheWife said:


> I'm very sorry but I read this 3 or 4 times and I don't really get your point. It's very confusing. You say that there "has to be some criteria here" (for what needs to be disclosed or what can be lied about or "omitted").
> 
> I think most of us would agree that it's simply not practical or wise to say that you are obligated to tell your spouse every single detail of your past sex life. For example, every single sex act and "flavor" of sex act that you've done. The fact that a former lover had a larger penis. etc, etc. By the way, these are all objective things, not subjective.
> 
> ...


There is no set, hard and fast rule.

This is between you and your husband. The conversation can evolve but it should start with you just coming clean about having many partners and how your fib developed.

After that, it is really up to you how much more you want to disclose if he asks.

Under ideal circumstances, it can lead to more open discussions about sex between you two and not anyone else.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

TJW said:


> I feel that deception about the simple facts is wrong. Number of previous partners, length of relationships, whether the relationships were sexual or platonic. And, before the marriage. Omission of these facts is misrepresentation. Coming to an altar of marriage implies these questions, especially for people of Christian faith, who all understand, in their heart-of-hearts, that they should be arriving there in virginity.
> 
> I don't feel that it is wrong to not "volunteer" information as to the details, kinds of sex acts, anatomical dimensions, role-play, etc. However, if the point-blank question is asked, it must be answered truthfully. Any question which is not asked need not be answered, and is likely better unanswered.
> 
> "Outright lie" is, under no circumstances, justifiable.


OK thank you. I think your view is pretty clear.

I understand from what you've said that a woman (and man) is "obligated" to disclose the number of partners they've had even if they haven't been asked. Otherwise it's deception and misrepresentation. From what you've said (length of relationships), it also sounds like you feel that you need to disclose the nature of each partner - e.g. one night stand, guy you dated, etc.

But you don't need to disclose things like that you've had anal sex or that other men came in you, if protection was used (assuming you've been tested and you're clean, etc), or that you've had much larger penises, etc. Even if you think that these things might be important to him. For example, if you know that he thinks ejaculating into the vagina is very "special" or "sacred". Or if you don't know.

Your "point blank" point may go against a lot of people's views (nothing wrong with that...people can have different views) as many feel that "your past is none of their business" - for example, if your partner asks you if you've done certain things, etc.

I hope I got that right and not trying to dissect everything but just processing what you said.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> I think that you are trying very hard to justify what you are doing by claiming that we must all be lairs as well so its ok.
> Honestly I don't think we should lie about our past sex lives at all, but that's irrelevant to what you need to do, especially as a woman who follows God.
> I believe that we should all be prepared to answer any question we are asked, and to be open about these things.
> 
> Its your fear that stops you from doing the right thing, understandable but it will get worse as time passes. The burden that you are carrying will get heavier until you finally put it down.


I've decided that if my husband asks me straight out, then the right thing is to tell him the truth about everything he wants to know. I will answer ALL of his questions. God led me to this. Previously I was determined to go to the grave with my secrets no matter what. Just to lie, even if i knew that was wrong. I have no way of knowing what my husband would want to know so the best thing is to leave it to him. If he starts being overcome with concern about my "purity" and sits me down and asks me the question, then that means he wants to know and is prepared (as best he can be) to know the truth.

If he asks me IF i had sex before marriage, I will get up all my courage and tell him "yes". He might want to know the number of men. If he asks I will tell him. If he doesn't ask, I won't tell him. He might want to stop at any point and not want to know more. I will let him lead on that. If he wants to know who all these guys were, what they did to me, or whatever, i will tell him and not sugar coat anything. But he needs to want to know.

i'm not going to go and destroy his world by sitting him down and telling him that i had sex with all these other men. What's done is done. I can't take it back now. Doing that just sounds so cruel. What is the point? I've been tested and have no diseases. If all that casual sex damaged my soul or some other part of me, then that's done. My husband knew me for years. It's all there. 

I know it's not exactly the same but the hurt might be similar to a woman sitting her husband down and saying "I need to tell you that of all the men i had sex with, your penis is the smallest. I'm sorry, i might have mislead you to think otherwise so I wanted to clear the air". I mean, what would be the point of that. Or maybe if you've had a general conversation about number of partners a long time ago and said that you had sex with your boyfriends but you left out some one night stands. You can sit him down and volunteer this info but what's the point? Maybe some would say it it's one or two, forget it. If it's 10 or more, you need to tell. But that's kind of random and goes back to isn't a lie (or an omission), a lie (or omission)?

I believe being prepared to tell him is the best way forward. I've played this out in my mind many times. I've prayed to God. I'm ready if it ever comes.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> There is no set, hard and fast rule.
> 
> This is between you and your husband. The conversation can evolve but it should start with you just coming clean about having many partners and how your fib developed.
> 
> ...


I agree that there is no set, hard and fast rule. You need to do what you think is right, even if it's not ideal. Life is a lot of compromises and sometimes you need to do things that you would not plan out like that.

remember, I've been accused of making my marriage "built on a lie" and my marriage is a "constant daily deception" so clearly some people think that there is only one way. I appreciate EVERYONE's opinion on this so i'm not criticizing anyone. I just truly did not understand for those who did say that there needs to be criteria (or pretty firm rules/guidelines) or that any lies or omissions are wrong and then what they were saying was not clear and (to be honest) sounded rather "engineered". Many will agree that lying and omitting thing is wrong but then you look at the practical implications of this. Like trying to explain why omitting some things was OK but others was serious deception. Some lies OK, others not. I think that that is very problematic. As soon as you start to say some lies are fine and others aren't, i think you start to have a very difficult time explaining that so that it is consistent and makes sense. Just my opinion.

But it seems that when it comes down to it, many here believe that it's OK to omit some things, gloss over some things, lie about some things. Again, not criticizing, just making it clear. Perhaps my situation really puts a lot of people off and i think a lot of people are (rightly) disgusted by my omission of relevant facts of my past. My situation is like the worst nightmare for many men with wives and girlfriends where they may not really want to think about what might be true. But at the same time, a lot of lying and omission is expected and people feel that it's not really a big deal. Like if you downplay the number of partners you've had or omit facts that you've had anal or whatever. That could be very important to some men - whether you're an anal virgin or not. Who knows what people care about or don't want to know. But it seems to be pretty accepted that lies to save feelings are justified.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

JustTheWife;20040063
If he asks me IF i had sex before marriage said:


> So you're going to trickle truth him, make HIM ask the questions when you already know that you mislead him on something that matters to him?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

JustTheWife said:


> many feel that "your past is none of their business"


Yes, and I would agree that it is an inappropriate question in a casual relationship, a question upon which it is perfectly reasonable to refuse an answer.

But, in marriage, or betrothal, I think that her past IS my business. I never looked for a virgin to be my wife. I was perfectly willing to accept someone who had other relationships, but the "key" criterion of acceptance or denial would be her attitude toward those relationships. If married before, then it is obvious that she had another sexual partner. Even if she was promiscuous, and had repented of her sin and was devoting herself now to a Godly life, I think a successful marriage could have been quite possible and desirable for me.

So, for me, the "facts" were not the highest standard, it was her current attitude and desire to now live a dedicated Christian life which was the "thing" I looked for..... and, thought I found...... boy was I ever wrong......


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Rubix Cubed said:


> So you're going to trickle truth him, make HIM ask the questions when you already know that you mislead him on something that matters to him?


No, that's not it at all. Criticize my choice but it's not "trickle truth" which is continuing to tell lies. If my husband asks me if I was with any other guys and I said that I kissed a couple of other guys, that's trickle truth. I'm going to answer his questions 100% if he wants to know. I've committed to myself and to God to do that.

No, I'm also not going to MAKE him ask me any questions. He's an adult and hardly a meek man so if he wants to know anything about me, he'll ask me. Sometimes things matter to people but they don't want to know. Sometimes people don't want to know the things that matter the most to them. Maybe he wants to know, maybe he doesn't. Maybe he doesn't want to discuss this kind of thing with his wife. I have no idea. I'm here for him with the truth when and if he ever wants it. He's never asked me straight out about my sexual history, not even before we started dating when we were friends.

But I get that you're going to word things to make me look as bad as possible. "Trickle truth" has nothing to do with my situation.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

JustTheWife said:


> No, that's not it at all. Criticize my choice but it's not "trickle truth" which is continuing to tell lies. If my husband asks me if I was with any other guys and I said that I kissed a couple of other guys, that's trickle truth. I'm going to answer his questions 100% if he wants to know. I've committed to myself and to God to do that.
> 
> No, I'm also not going to MAKE him ask me any questions. He's an adult and hardly a meek man so if he wants to know anything about me, he'll ask me. Sometimes things matter to people but they don't want to know. Sometimes people don't want to know the things that matter the most to them. Maybe he wants to know, maybe he doesn't. Maybe he doesn't want to discuss this kind of thing with his wife. I have no idea. I'm here for him with the truth when and if he ever wants it. He's never asked me straight out about my sexual history, not even before we started dating when we were friends.
> 
> But I get that you're going to word things to make me look as bad as possible. "Trickle truth" has nothing to do with my situation.


I think there's a difference between "wanting to know (details)" and "clarity." When I look at my wife's situation, or yours, what's lacking is clarity. Clarity occurs as a need only when there's a belief that something's wrong with the narrative that you bought into. And when you get that feeling, that feeling that the narrative isn't right, you can easily view a good part of your marriage as a "lie" if not careful. Lack of clarity, that feeling of not really being sure what happened, what you got into, that's what can drive the partner (who doesn't know) nuts. I mean totally crazy off-the-chart losing-sleep-at-night nuts. Lack of clarity allows your mind to construct the worst-possible scenario, and that worst-possible scenario isn't really about what the partner did, but rather how you feel about what your partner might have done. It's a downward spiral. I really can't explain this very well, but I know this place.

Until your partner has this clarity, you are building up an increasing amount of time, percentage of your married life, that can be viewed potentially as "living a lie." And here's the thing- it's not the person who omitted or lied, the lie is felt by the person who didn't know. I think it comes across a bit too strongly to say the "marriage" is a lie but rather the relationship. It doesn't sound like there's a distinction, but there is, because the marriage starts on a set date and moves forward, and may be "clean", while the relationship begins prior to that and encompasses the time in which things should have been discussed.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> No, that's not it at all. Criticize my choice but it's not "trickle truth" which is continuing to tell lies. If my husband asks me if I was with any other guys and I said that I kissed a couple of other guys, that's trickle truth. I'm going to answer his questions 100% if he wants to know. I've committed to myself and to God to do that.
> 
> No, I'm also not going to MAKE him ask me any questions. He's an adult and hardly a meek man so if he wants to know anything about me, he'll ask me. Sometimes things matter to people but they don't want to know. Sometimes people don't want to know the things that matter the most to them. Maybe he wants to know, maybe he doesn't. Maybe he doesn't want to discuss this kind of thing with his wife. I have no idea. I'm here for him with the truth when and if he ever wants it. He's never asked me straight out about my sexual history, not even before we started dating when we were friends.
> 
> But I get that you're going to word things to make me look as bad as possible. "Trickle truth" has nothing to do with my situation.


Why would he ask if you have led him to believe that you were a virgin?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> I've decided that if my husband asks me straight out, then the right thing is to tell him the truth about everything he wants to know. I will answer ALL of his questions. God led me to this. Previously I was determined to go to the grave with my secrets no matter what. Just to lie, even if i knew that was wrong. I have no way of knowing what my husband would want to know so the best thing is to leave it to him. If he starts being overcome with concern about my "purity" and sits me down and asks me the question, then that means he wants to know and is prepared (as best he can be) to know the truth.
> 
> If he asks me IF i had sex before marriage, I will get up all my courage and tell him "yes". He might want to know the number of men. If he asks I will tell him. If he doesn't ask, I won't tell him. He might want to stop at any point and not want to know more. I will let him lead on that. If he wants to know who all these guys were, what they did to me, or whatever, i will tell him and not sugar coat anything. But he needs to want to know.
> 
> ...


Sorry about this, but while its better than nothing, it isn't enough. He wont ask because you led him to believe that you were a virgin so why would he? You need to do the initial telling of the truth that you did have sex with other men. Once you have done that, then you need to be ready to answer any questions he may have. 

As for it being cruel, what is cruel is to keep him in darkness, too carry on deceiving him. Bringing the past into the light is the only way that this will be death with. 

I realise that it will be hard to tell him, that its a risk, but that's what happens when you deceive people. It will always need sorting out eventually, if not now then later.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Why would he ask if you have led him to believe that you were a virgin?


I have no idea. I can't speculate on that. Perhaps like Casual Observer says, maybe he'll feel a need for clarity or something. i never said I wasn't a virgin and he probably would have got the idea i was a virgin from discussions before we even started dating where I expressed that I thought sex before marriage is a sin (true, that's what i believed) and stuff like that.

So if it was that vitally important for him to know what i've done sexually then he'd simply ask me. He would have done it already or he can ask me whenever he wants. 

It's not only about sexual intercourse. Maybe even if he thought i was a virgin, he might want to know if someone kissed me or touched my sexual parts.

Maybe he'll want to know if I ever masturbate. he can ask that too. or if i've ever seen porn. Or if i fantasize about having sex with other guys. He can ask away if he wants to know!

Again, my husband is not meek at all. He is quite controlling. He's NOT shy. He's not naive. He doesn't just naively assume things. He'll ask if he wants to know.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

@JustTheWife, I hope that you'll do what's best for you and for your marriage and not feel pressure from a bunch of complete strangers on the internet about how to handle your dilemma.

Although it sounds very noble and right to dump your past onto your husband, no one here is gonna have to live with fallout of that decision.

If these post/dicussions are helpful for you, then that's great, but in the end, it is your life and your choice.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> I have no idea. I can't speculate on that. Perhaps like Casual Observer says, maybe he'll feel a need for clarity or something. i never said I wasn't a virgin and he probably would have got the idea i was a virgin from discussions before we even started dating where I expressed that I thought sex before marriage is a sin (true, that's what i believed) and stuff like that.
> 
> So if it was that vitally important for him to know what i've done sexually then he'd simply ask me. He would have done it already or he can ask me whenever he wants.
> 
> ...


How did he tell you that he was a virgin?
You would soon find out if he knows when you tell him. From all the things you said and led him to believe he probably assumed that you were.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> *But I get that you're going to word things to make me look as bad as possible.* "Trickle truth" has nothing to do with my situation.


 You got me, that's my raison d'etre, to make some anonymous person on the internet look bad.
I'd go on to explain why trickle truth is what you're doing but there is no way you are so obtuse you don't already realize that is exactly what you're doing. Just keep rationalizing it and play the victim. 
Sorry to bother you with my advice, it won't happen again.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> How did he tell you that he was a virgin?
> You would soon find out if he knows when you tell him. From all the things you said and led him to believe he probably assumed that you were.


He said before we got together (we were just friends) that he never did anything with any girls and that was by choice and he was saving it for after he got married. Simple as that. He volunteered that. he was proud of it. I said I thought that was really great (i did, not a lie). 

I don't understand what you mean by I would find out "if he knows". I've never questioned whether he knows. I have no reason to believe that he does. Yeah he probably assumed that I wasn't based on comments that I made before we even got together. I acknowledged that many times (sorry i'm not trying to be rude) and i'm in no way trying to deny that what i said to him before we even started dating probably made him believe that i didn't have sex with so many people like i did. I didn't do it to "snag" him or for any reason other than just because i didn't want to talk about it and I didn't want people in my club (it was a Christian club) to think less of me for it. I didn't think it was anyone's business at that time. I wasn't trying to be evil or to deceive anyone. I just didn't want to share my secrets with him and everyone in the club.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Rubix Cubed said:


> You got me, that's my raison d'etre, to make some anonymous person on the internet look bad.
> I'd go on to explain why trickle truth is what you're doing but there is no way you are so obtuse you don't already realize that is exactly what you're doing. Just keep rationalizing it and play the victim.
> Sorry to bother you with my advice, it won't happen again.


I'm very sorry. I didn't mean for anything that I said to be rude. I appreciate your opinions and advice. I just don't see how anything is trickle truth. Anyway, it is what it is and i'm sorry but i find labels like "trickle truth" to be unhelpful when it doesn't match my situation.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

JustTheWife said:


> I'm very sorry. I didn't mean for anything that I said to be rude. I appreciate your opinions and advice. I just don't see how anything is trickle truth. Anyway, it is what it is and i'm sorry but i find labels like "trickle truth" to be unhelpful when it doesn't match my situation.


It is your actions she is talking about and your example, not the situation.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

JustTheWife said:


> Diana7 said:
> 
> 
> > Why would he ask if you have led him to believe that you were a virgin?
> ...


If he never asked straight out, you either made it clear you were or he doesn't care or doesn't want to confirm what he already knows. If it was something that was important to him then I think he would have simply asked long ago. Sexual history isn't all that important if you know they've had had sex. Virginity or lack thereof seems like a conversation that would have popped up along the way.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

This thread is 20 pages long. The OP's last post was on page 3.

@Butterfly_Princess if you come back to TAM, I suggest you start a new thread.


This thread is locked.


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