# Giving a Woman "Space" = The End?



## nice777guy

Just wondering how everyone else feels about this one.

Is it always "the end" when a woman asks for space or a separation?


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## Amplexor

I can't speak for separation but my wife asked for space early on in our recovery. I gave it to her. There are different types of space but in our case she just didn't want to feel pressure from me about the marriage, fixing things, counseling.... She needed to have time to think but we still had our day to day relationship, kids, homework, work issues, bills.... Space does not mean the end think of it as breathing room.

Space does not = the end.


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## Atholk

There is a huge difference between having a spouse take a planned vacation alone or time by themselves to recharge their batteries, and allowing her to experiement with a dry run at leaving you. Both my wife and I are somewhat introverted and work very high touch people jobs. So we often just escape for some alone time.

Half the time they are just trying to get the OM to take them fully, and have you as a back up plan in case he falls through. They won't say that of course, it will all be about "trying to find myself yada yada yada", but it's funny how often they find themselves when the OM doesn't leave his wife for your wife.

If you do go the route of time apart etc, I think it has to be made exceptionally clear that interaction with other men is a no-no, and there has to be a time limit to the space. I think we keep seeing the same people posting over and over "It's been 3 months, how long do I wait.... It's been four months.... five months.... six months.... seven months...."

Even if they do divorce you, they often seem to be just trying to take a permanent vacation from being responsible form anything at all with this space thing.


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## JMAN777

Going for a one month separation in the near future. Each of us moves out for a half the time with her starting first (I made this clear as it was her idea). I am going to make sure there are clear goals established before doing so and one month was my time limit but in my opinion it's likely just prolonging things in either case. I am taking the necessary precautions.

Yes, as Atholk mentioned, I got the "I need to find myself," BS too. She mentioned that she wanted to experience it to get away from the daily tension and to find if it's what she really wants. Well guess, what? Maybe I won't be there when she gets back after the way I've been treated and she has put me through. I'm struggling to control my own growing resentment after throwing everything at trying to repair things,


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## beninneedofhelp

id like to hear more on the separation and space ordeal does it mean the end when is to long for space before it does become a end how long does it take sometimes to heal or to miss or realize what you are missing ?? When does it become from space to to much space ??


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## beninneedofhelp

really saddened that there wasnt more posts on this subject oh well


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## nice777guy

I tend to believe there is no real rule that can be applied to all situations. Every marriage is different. Every person is different.


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## jessi

I don't think it's a great idea, I think myself it's easier to to forget and to build a new life if you move out.
Might be just me though


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## BigBadWolf

There is no good reason to give a woman "space".

This is saying unless there is an immediate threat to life or limb to the man or the woman or children, but this is not what this thread is speaking of.

A woman is wanting her man to be jealous of her, and when a man gives her "space", this is the opposite of this and the man has failed this test.

If there is an affair man in the picture, the woman is not "confused" or "needing to make a choice" or anything of these other things. She is only waiting to see which man is going to fight harder for her. In this situation when a man gives her "space", this is the opposite of this and the man has failed this test.

Also these things about no rules. This is smoke and mirrors, we are not so very very "special" and unique as we can ignore the world we live in and throw up our hands in confusion and continue to live miserable reactionary lives as if we cannot understand what is happening.

Put aside the pride in being "special" and "individual" and see that there are indeed in this beautiful universe structures, and in these structures, to those that are paying attention, see the cause and effect and how things interrelate.

The structure of sexual attraction between a man and a woman is simple, the man strives to dominate, and the woman strives to be dominated.

When this structure is honored, the man is a man, the woman is a woman, and marriage is bliss.

When this structure is ignored, the man and woman will both be miserable, and the man will end up looking forward to his day of death.


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## beninneedofhelp

BBW but couldnt there be circumstances where that giving space works to the advantage or no ?


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## okeydokie

if she asks for "space", say ok-i have been wanting to get out there alone too....see what happens. i am not a moddly coddler, grown ups need to act like grown ups. seems like asking for space is a BS excuse to seperate


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## Amplexor

beninneedofhelp said:


> BBW but couldnt there be circumstances where that giving space works to the advantage or no ?


I am not a fan of separation and of all the couples I have seen go through it I can only recall one that survived. It was never on the table for us. Either work it out or divorce was the attitude we had. Especially since there were kids involved. "Mommy and Daddy aren't living together but are trying to get better" doesn't make much sense IMO.

But my wife did ask for space early on in the recovery. Was there another man involved? Yes. It turned out to be a very serious EA. The space she needed was emotional space to sort her feelings out and get some breathing space. Did she come to understand the EA during that period? No, it took a long time for that to happen. But the period of giving her space (about 2 months) gave her time to understand that I was dead serious in recovering the marriage. 

Since one of the things that caused problems in our marriage was that I was not respecting her wishes i.e. controlling, the best course of action was to now listen to her and do what she was asking. I had already seen that pursuing her romantically, trying to fix everything at once, 180 in attitude had in fact driven her further away. She resented me for letting things get this bad before I took action. But by giving her some room she realized I was not only serious about recovering the marriage but in respecting her wishes as my wife. Giving space was only a small part of the recovery but I believe it was part of the foundation upon which we built the rest.

I speak of only what I know and it was a part of the puzzle in our recovery.


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## beninneedofhelp

Amp that was advise i wish i would have heard about 2 months ago but non the less it is something i am looking at right now in a different light , I wrote my wife a very blunt blunt letter on how she always runs when things get tough weather it be my fault or hers its always her running me chasing , and i pointed out her family has taught her to run as well with her mom and dad having almost a combined 10 marriages between the two and was very direct about it and yet at the same time i told her if it fails it wont be because i wasnt trying it be because she wasnt trying no more that i would be there waiting and i still will help as much as possible and so forth that i still cared but wasnt going to just lay down and accept everything or agree with her choices but wouldnt be mad with her either or act indifferent i just will be there.. that was 4 days ago 

I hadnt talked to her or called or nothing in that time , well not 5 min ago i called we talked had a good polite conversation and she said she may call me to have me come over and watch the ball with her drop tonight at home with her and our kids , yes i asked she said if she wanted me to she would call and that she will think about it , but i no if i would have asked earlier or before she would have said just NO cause i asked about 2 weeks ago and she was like Ben i no what you want were not even going there right now so no no no i will spend that night with the kids alone.

So maybe it is space she just needs to heal to let her walls down and have the strength and mind set to try to work things out .. If there is other stories like yours id love to hear them as well just to see how things worked with it but that AMP was something i think i needed to hear or in this case read..


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## nice777guy

Must be nice for some of us to live in a world that is so black and white.

My world has many shades of grey and feels far more complicated than others here would have me believe.

So - it sounds like you are either a man or a woman. I'm a man. THAT is a FACT. Then there are two classes of men - strong & weak. This seems like OPINION to me, but let's play along.

My wife chose to marry me and did not stray for 14.5 years. Add four years for our courtship - so 18.5 years.

By the "either/or/black/white/good/bad/strong/weak" reasoning above, I guess I started "strong", but somehow turned "weak" about six months ago. It was right around father's day best I can tell when I saw the phone bill.

Maybe it was something I ate. Or I accidentally watched an episode of Oprah.

Must be nice to live in such a simple world.


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## beninneedofhelp

mommy22 said:


> I can't see this as a black and white issue. The term "space" could mean a short time out for one person but could mean divorce for another. I think that making a blanket statement saying that it would be doom for eveyone is a bit premature without taking each scenario into account. That said, I don't think it's a good idea for married couples to spend.much time apart physically. It simply isn't good for the health of the marriage. Marriage is a bond which brings two people together unlike any other. To bring an excessive amount of space into such leaves the marriage ina vulnerable state.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That too worries me but we dont have much time together at all , her choice but we do spend time here and there doing things together not much but its there, and i do send flowers or talk on the phone or what not to keep her mind on us i guess in a way i try to keep her thinking without being right there in person all the time but let her no im still there type of thing. 
Atleast today she didnt say no , she atleast said ill think about it and ill call you if i want you to stop over but atleast it was really friendly and we were talking talking for a change.


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## Amplexor

nice777guy said:


> My world has many shades of grey and feels far more complicated than others here would have me believe.


Relationships are multifaceted. Recoveries even more. That is why I stressed that space was only one piece of the puzzle for us and that it was required in our case.



nice777guy said:


> Or I accidentally watched an episode of Oprah.


:rofl: Thanks. Classic!!!


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## beninneedofhelp

Ok so what your saying is sometimes its needed to start with correct?
But am i doing wrong by keeping her thinking on me by sending flowers and showing her things are different through actions and once in a while i point things out in letters not all the time and lately seems like when i do speak with her after giving her time the talks go better but still arent about us , when is it a good time to bring that up cause so far in the past when i have she just gets mad about things , and im trying to figure out a good time or when it seems like it would be a good time to try that talk with her . 

Cause ussually she is closed off about it and gets mad and says things spitefully and that never gets nothing answered in truth only words of anger or sarcastic remarks. So how do you no when to say something and should i do something different then just give her a few days or a week or two here and there without talking to her or sending her a reminder im still there waiting and willing ???
Or do you wait for them to call or contact you??

i guess this has a lot of questions in it and just trying to get advise on what worked with giving space and what is giving to much or not enough with say someone who is hurt upset and still closed off for the most part and even made a comment that she thinks is true being we get along better now as friends when in truth its just the changes i have made allows that not being friends cause though its part of marriages im more then just a friend still and she sees it as we get along better now cause of that when its really just cause i have changed the way i approach things talk and listen to her , and it could be that way even if we were together together but she dont see that yet .. 

Wow i guess i tend to ramble on sometimes and have many questions for this subject this is the one part of my situation im not dealing well with is time apart from each other cause she wants it saying she is divorcing but not doing nothing about it either (dragging her feet i guess) but i dont want it and feel things can be worked out if she would just stop running like she always has in the past but in the past i just kept the pressure on her and pushed pushed pushed but this time that seems to push her further away its when i give her time she ends up calling or we talk better but when i push she gets less likely to speak or even talk openly about anything .

I feared calling today cause my last letter 4 days ago was very blunt and i pointed out at this point its her not me stopping things its her running like always ext ext and felt she was going to be rude or upset or cold with me when i called after 4 days of not even speaking to her she was warmer then she has been and we had a good talk for a change and still might spend the evening with her now , which just seems weird i got that response instead of the cold shoulder cause that letter wasnt just blunt but did point out that it may have been my fault to start with but now at this point its her so i guess i was scared she would take it as i was blaming her for this which in a way i am but i took responsibility for the start but not the present or the future of our marriage if im the only one trying .

i wish i could explain the letter in more detail its 11 pages long typed out and 3 of them pages arent really a letter but facts on divorce and kids and one was the letter i got from mort fertel about when someone really changes which is posted on her in a couple spots for others to read its a good read and is something some should read like my wife and maybe others that are thinking divorce but has someone willing to make them changes needed for the marriage to work and be happy but anyways hope to hear something back on this post here..... Its really got my attention and i think im picking a few things up today that i was not before and probably should have


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## nice777guy

Sorry Ben, but I've always believed that unless your audience is really interested in hearing what you have to say, less it best.

I think if I sent my wife an 11 page letter right now she would read the first paragraph and then throw it away.

I'm by no means an expert, but the only times my wife seems to draw closer to me are the times when I've backed off. When I'm chasing, she knows she's "got me." When I'm not, I think it scares her.


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## beninneedofhelp

you no i have read so many of the ebooks and audios out there and even tried to get a copy of pull your ex back and some very controversial ones too and one thing i have seen that im not to good at doing even after 3 plus months of just being in limbo with limited contact in person is do these things exspecially the space part a few days a week or two at most and i ussually break down 
She does read the letters i no that much for sure she dont speak about them though ussually well unless i call that day or the day after but it does seem like the last part of your post is correct when ever i back off she does seem to want to no why but not in so many words some how she calls or something.. Or i give it time and then call and things seem to be better or something not sure how to look at it 
But all these books all said is dont push always agree with everything even the separation divorce or what ever it may be take fault for what is yours dont try to fight over it at all and even make them guess what you are doing and most not all always say make them think you are moving on even dating now that last part with dating just dont seem like it will work with everyone i feel if i did that she would have one of 2 reactions either get scared i really am moving on and start chasing me or she might get the idea that oh ok im not worth it and move on herself and that could be the crushing blow to it all . It seems to be like a tight rope act or something and i dont seem to have good balance as of yet . I may have made the changes and she sees them but her pride and fears of it going back the way it was are still very big on her mind so she likes the changes likes the new me in her words but is scared to try cause she dont want to get hurt . Now how do you get around that and what do you think is the best way to go or am i doing the right thing now and just being loyal and faithful and sincere with the changes not just doing them cause of her doing them cause i needed to and hope its enough for her to want to try one last time ??


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## beninneedofhelp

here are a little bit out of the one book

There are 4 different kinds of competition
you’ll have to overcome…
1. Other people: In-laws, her man friend or her lady friend who is divorced and
subconsciously envious of her marriage. Other people involved that are supporting her in
her idea for divorce or separation.
2. Her negative feelings, her fear, her hurt, her anger, her pessimistic feelings.
3. Addiction to 10 strategies that never work, which I’ll go into very briefly.
4. Our pain and our addiction to the pain. That is, our hurt, our grief, our anxiety, our
depression.


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## beninneedofhelp

Here Are 10 Strategies That
Never Work – Yet People Always Try
1. The first is to give her reassurance. “I’ve changed. I won’t be controlling anymore. I
won’t lie to you anymore. I won’t have another affair,” and so forth. The efforts to give
her reassurance. This almost never works.
2. The second strategy is to tell her over and over again, “I love you.” That never works.
3. Third is the use of prayer and hope, which is basically wishful thinking. Robert Ringer
talks about wishful thinking in his book Winning Through Intimidation. He was in big
commercial real estate, barely getting by financially. And then he discovered he was
doing wishful thinking, so he switched over to doing reality thinking. In less than one
year, he made over $800,000 in brokerage fees.
4. The fourth strategy is arguing, reasoning, trying to talk her into feeling different or doing
different. That never works.
5. The fifth strategy is recruiting others, trying to get others to side with us. That always
boomerangs.
6. Acting depressed. Now, sometimes that might work temporarily through getting her to
feel guilty or afraid of what we’re going to do. But it increases her motivation to get away
from us.
I had a man who attempted suicide twice before he heard about me and called me. He ended
up in the hospital. I don’t even think she went to the hospital. But they’re back together and
happy now. His acting depressed didn’t help very much.
7. Using the kids. That’s kind of like recruiting others. That always boomerangs.
8. Blaming and using moral pressure. One psychologist says, “The essence of mental
disturbance can be put in one word: blaming.” Never works. It works negatively.
9. Pessimism. We become addicted to our pessimism. “I know I can’t win. You don’t know
my wife. She’s very stubborn. She never changes her mind.” I say, “Never? About
anything?” “Well, maybe about minor things, but not things this important.” I said,
“Well, I think it’s about something this important is precisely what she has changed her
mind about. She originally said she was going to stay with you and love you forever.
And now, she can’t stand you. So obviously, she’s changed her mind. So obviously, she
© Copyright 1998-2006. NewInformation!, Inc. All Rights Reserved. 8
does change her mind.” But people fall in love with pessimism. That’s one of the
strategies.
10. Exaggeration. One psychologist says, “The essence of mental disturbance can be put in
one word: blaming.” I say the essence of mental disturbance can be put in one word:
exaggerating. We exaggerate the good, and we exaggerate the bad.
All of these strategies are very human. This list almost exhausts the strategies that people use.
These strategies always backfire. Now, how are we going to win against the competition of
other people and her negative feelings and our addiction to these strategies and our addiction
to self-pity?


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## nice777guy

Ben - I wish I knew. I called my wife last night even though I KNEW it was a bad idea. And, I was right - bad idea.

But sometimes I also believe that - even if I do everything PERFECT, it still may not matter.

We just aren't in control of it all.


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## beninneedofhelp

thats just some of the one book wonder what others would think of it and weather or not i should be paying more attention to these types of books


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## beninneedofhelp

nice777guy said:


> Ben - I wish I knew. I called my wife last night even though I KNEW it was a bad idea. And, I was right - bad idea.
> 
> But sometimes I also believe that - even if I do everything PERFECT, it still may not matter.
> 
> We just aren't in control of it all.


That is true but we are in control of what we do and how we do things . That may make a difference to some degree but i guess its ultimately there choice i wish i knew as well. But your right about this sometimes it dont matter if its good or bad even when i no im doing right sometimes she looks at it as im doing wrong so in these situations sometimes it dont matter your just always wrong till there hurt feelings and or anger start to disapate


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## Atholk

Look you can't ever truely control the other person in the relationship. You can only control you. My general approach is to make you into the best you, you can be, but tailored to be attractive to the opposite sex.

Either your spouse responds to that or they don't. If they do, then great, that's a win. If they don't, it's sad in the short term, but you're better set up to attract new love into your life, so that's a win as well. Either way you win.

You don't usually win by simply pining for your lost love and suffering in aguish until they return. Your entire emotional state is actually replusive to most people when you're in the middle of being dumped. You're anxious, lonely, hysterical, angry, unstable... so who wants to cozy up with that?

Whatever you do, you need to get into some kind of positive action for yourself quickly, rather than handing your estranged spouse all the cards to your happiness.


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## nice777guy

Once again, its hard for me to feel like I can give advice, but I think you've done enough reading for now. It even sounds like you've concluded that the books are all telling you the same things.

I KNOW I've spent far too much time on this board the last couple of days, and I'm not sure if its helping me or if its just giving me a place to "wallow" in my sorrows.

Kind of back to the "weakness" thing - I didn't feel weak when things started going downhill, but I feel weak RIGHT NOW. Which is yet another reason I need to KEEP MY DISTANCE and find something I enjoy doing to take my mind off of things.

Like At said - *I'm angry, lonely, anxious and unstable *(think I may get this put on a button I can wear). 

I'll let her see me or hear from me on a better day - and there will be better days.


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## missmywife

I am going through the same thing with my wife, she wants space. She moved out of the house about 4 mths ago. I tried to get her back for about 2 mths, then decided to move on. We didnt talk for 2 mths. She came back to the house to talk one day and said she wasnt sure what she wanted anymore, but didnt want to just move back in together. She wanted me to move out, since she has been miserable living with a friend. Ive been out of the house for 2 weeks now, feels like 2 mths. She isnt sure whats going to happen, when she is in a bad mood though she says the most likely scenario is we get a divorce. I ask her how am I suppose to take that, she says she wants to wait and see what happens. I cant sit around forever, but I love her deeply.


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## beninneedofhelp

If it wasnt for the kids i would have stopped talking a while ago im starting to realize this it be a lot easier to walk away if not for the kids but in my situation i get so little time with them its crazy im almost alienated from them but i also no the only way to get more time with them would be a road that would certainly push the over the line button with the wife so im kinda stuck all though the other day she did say she was thinking and decided she would let me come to the house a couple times a month and spend time with the kids at the house something she hasnt done and been dead set against the hole time. So i dont no what that is about i posted a status update yesterday to get views and thoughts and got just a couple posts back  it helped but not as much as i had hoped 

Hope is all i got it seems but not sure what foot to put out in front of the other no more . Id stop talking to her but i call my son once a night before bedtime to say good night and ask him about his day and such , but then he hands the phone to the wife and we always talk for a few atleast and its always about the kids , everyonce in a while she leaves a opening in there and i always take it and say something and she just gets mad about it and dont want to talk i can count on my one hand how many times she has wanted to talk its been a total of 5 times so far 3 of which came after letters or emails she felt mad about and wanted to vent on me which i aloud but till the last one i just played complacent this last one i stood my ground on my beliefs and feelings took blame for my part but didnt let her run from her blame now and what she is really doing to the kids with this.. That was the day she said i could start coming over once in a while to see the kids there... the other two times just happened on the phone but none of them were good..


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## swedish

I don't think needing space = the end, but I do think when a woman needs space it's likely that she has been feeling bad about the marriage for months or years and either ignoring the feelings for whatever reason (divorce is not an option, you made your bed now lie in it, need to hang in there for the kids) & at some point they decide they are done and cannot ignore their unhappiness within the marriage anymore.

It might be that she's met someone else who is filling the needs she felt are missing in the marriage (EA or PA) or even lusting over a male friend, co-worker and fantasizing how that person would be a better fit...this can be enough for a woman to say the grass may be greener on the other side, I am not happy now, what do I have to lose?

It might be an event, the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back, that causes her to say 'I'm done.'

Once she gets the courage to tell you she needs space, she has thought about the marriage for a long time. Although the husband may feel this came out of nowhere and she isn't giving you a chance to 'fix' things...she either has been saying it for years and gave up or she feels that if you truely loved her you would not need to be told to put her first, spend time with her, bring her flowers once in a while, put her on a pedistal  I know, husbands are not mind-readers & I'm not defending this position...just my opinion on why women 'need space'.

Although it may seem out of the blue to you, she likely has been unhappy in the marriage and/or thinking about ending the marriage for a long time and once she made the decision to tell you that, she is beyond the point of thinking staying will be an option. Space likely means she does not want to discuss the relationship, be pursued by you...she has already decided she does not want to continue the marriage....but she is leaving room for hope and does not want to close the door just yet unless she feels certain it is the only option for her happiness.

So pushing blame, making them feel guilty, pushing romance will likely all backfire at this stage. 

Looking within yourself, making changes where you see shortfalls, being confident and happy around her and with your kids IMO might make her think twice about her decision.

Just my 2 cents


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## missmywife

@swedish,

Well said. My wife has told me she hasnt been happy in years. Is it my fault, maybe partially, but happiness comes from within. I dont think she is happy with herself. She said she gave up trying on the marriage 2 years ago. Did I miss the signs, yes. I wish I can turn back time. We do not have any kids, so its easier for us to party ways and start a new life. Both of us are 34 years old. I still love her deeply and I know she still has feeling for me. She says she wants to make a decision with her mind, not her heart. There isnt anyone else but something did happen with her sister and her around the same time that our marriage "broke". We havent spoken in about a week, she only wants to talk about business stuff (like bills, household stuff, etc). The only thing I can really do is give her the space, otherwise divorce is the only other option. I just find it really hard to sit back and do nothing to try and get her back. She admits that I have changed since we separated 4 mths ago, but she thinks it wont last. I want nothing more than to treat my wife like a queen, show her affection everytime I see her, give her thoughtful gifts once in a while. Yes, I neglected to do these things over the 10 years of our marriage. Its like you take each other for granted, stop working at the marriage because you think it will work itself. Thats another thing I realized, it takes work every day.

For the past 2 weeks I wake up from dreaming about her, getting back together. Sometimes its the opposite, I dream of her being angry and leaving again and again. 

So is there anything I should do besides wait for her to make a decision? We are living 2 hours apart right now.


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## sisters359

> Once she gets the courage to tell you she needs space, she has thought about the marriage for a long time. Although the husband may feel this came out of nowhere and she isn't giving you a chance to 'fix' things...she either has been saying it for years and gave up


I think this is actually documented--that when women in longer-term marriages leave, they have been thinking about it for a long time and they feel they have tried everything at some point. I personally felt like this, plus I felt that a relationship restored out of fear (his fear of being alone) was not what I wanted. I did not believe in threatening to leave. I changed a lot of things about myself and still didn't get met half-way. 

I'd like to paraphrase Atholk (I think it was him) on when men say they were "blind-sided" by their wife's decision: they weren't paying attention. I didn't hint--I told my husband what I needed; he refused to change. I made changes to encourage change in him. It didn't work. When I said I was done, he said, "You didn't scream and cry about things; how was I to know they were important?" Well, although "screaming and crying" never was and never will be my style, I made things very clear. I have no doubt in my mind that he knew exactly what I was unhappy about, and he also knew that he hadn't paid any attention. He chose the path of least resistance--ignoring me. That didn't work so well. 

As for "space," by the time a woman asks, it may well be too late. But if she is not having an affair, she is trying to figure out if she needs or wants you in her life. It could go either way. I don't think it is any type of test, frankly, for many women--so be very careful about assuming that.


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## missmywife

@sister359,

The book "Uncoupling" talks about this in great deal, how the "initiator" gets a head start in the grieving process. Uncoupling is just one of the books ive read over the past 4 mths since my wife left. I am hoping she sees the light and that things are not hopeless. She even admits that she should have been more open about how she felt over the years. Most men would have given up by now with the emotional rollercoaster ive been through. It may sound cliche, but I feel my wife and I belong together. I hope that she sees this also or at least gives our marriage another chance. With what ive learned the past 4 mths going to counseling, support groups, and reading self help books, I know I can be a better husband than I ever was before.


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## beninneedofhelp

I feel you missmywife and i to miss mine and i no exactly how you feel sadly i long for it still but i am at the same time getting frustrated and other emotions are starting to come up as well that are not good or wanted and i have to push them down or try to sometimes i cant right now.. But i have been on that boat for near 4 months as well and learned a lot about myself my issues that needed changed and many other things from both sides of the spectrum but at the same time i have 2 kids that need this out of us and that keeps me going with trying and unfortunatly even if she made her move tomorrow for the worse it be another 6-9 months before anything was final sadly that could be almost a year or longer from the start of this and that is a long time on a roller coaster exspecially when you are the only one trying at this point but i have to ask myself this is she worth it ? yes . Is my kids worth it ? without a doubt yes . so to me i guess i ride the ride and hope for the best


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## missmywife

@beninneedofhelp,

Only you know if its worth it and when to stop trying. So many of my friends and family dont understand why I want to be with my wife, especially the things she has said and done the past 4 months. If they were in my shoes, they may think differently. The only contact I have with my wife right now is txt msges. My wife is big on that with her friends, I find it impersonal. I know she is afraid to talk to me because the relationship eventually comes up and gets both of us upset. I just want to talk about us as individuals, get to know each other again, what brought us together in the first place. Hopefully she gives us this chance...


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## Amplexor

swedish said:


> Although it may seem out of the blue to you, she likely has been unhappy in the marriage and/or thinking about ending the marriage for a long time and once she made the decision to tell you that, she is beyond the point of thinking staying will be an option. Space likely means she does not want to discuss the relationship, be pursued by you...she has already decided she does not want to continue the marriage....but she is leaving room for hope and does not want to close the door just yet unless she feels certain it is the only option for her happiness.


:iagree::iagree:

Excellent point Swedish. I think that sums up where my wife was at the time she asked for space. Add in the EA and it was nearly game over. Like many I felt blindsided but looking back I could see all the signs, warnings and pleads from her. I wasn't blindsided simply blind to what was going on with my marriage for far too long. But we did move forward, improved and eventually recovered.


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## swedish

sisters359 said:


> I think this is actually documented--that when women in longer-term marriages leave, they have been thinking about it for a long time and they feel they have tried everything at some point. I personally felt like this, plus I felt that a relationship restored out of fear (his fear of being alone) was not what I wanted. I did not believe in threatening to leave. I changed a lot of things about myself and still didn't get met half-way.
> 
> I'd like to paraphrase Atholk (I think it was him) on when men say they were "blind-sided" by their wife's decision: they weren't paying attention. I didn't hint--I told my husband what I needed; he refused to change. I made changes to encourage change in him. It didn't work. When I said I was done, he said, "You didn't scream and cry about things; how was I to know they were important?" Well, although "screaming and crying" never was and never will be my style, I made things very clear. I have no doubt in my mind that he knew exactly what I was unhappy about, and he also knew that he hadn't paid any attention. He chose the path of least resistance--ignoring me. That didn't work so well.
> 
> As for "space," by the time a woman asks, it may well be too late. But if she is not having an affair, she is trying to figure out if she needs or wants you in her life. It could go either way. I don't think it is any type of test, frankly, for many women--so be very careful about assuming that.


I can relate to your post, as much of what I posted was drawn from reading many posts on here and my own personal experience in my first marriage.



missmywife said:


> I just want to talk about us as individuals, get to know each other again, what brought us together in the first place. Hopefully she gives us this chance...


I hope she does also (and ben's wife and others going through this)...if she is able to see changes in you, it does help to get her thinking. It's hard when you have little or no contact. 

Do you think a lot about what brought you together? If it were me, getting flowers, begging me for another chance, etc. would all seem like a quick fix to reel me in and get your life back to normal....if I received a text like 'I just heard xxxx on the radio and it reminded me of when we were at xxxx...made me smile '

Friendly, not overly forward & sweet....that type of thing may get her thinking...and you are not demanding a response....and may not get one...but it will make her think of that time...and probably smile inside.


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## missmywife

swedish said:


> Do you think a lot about what brought you together? If it were me, getting flowers, begging me for another chance, etc. would all seem like a quick fix to reel me in and get your life back to normal....if I received a text like 'I just heard xxxx on the radio and it reminded me of when we were at xxxx...made me smile '
> 
> Friendly, not overly forward & sweet....that type of thing may get her thinking...and you are not demanding a response....and may not get one...but it will make her think of that time...and probably smile inside.


We have been friends since high school, 16 years, together for 12 years, married 10. I think about that stuff all the time. She crys when I bring some things up. Buying her flowers and gifts seem to make things worse when I did it a month ago. Im just going to give her the space, hoping she sees the light. She knows what I want, she knows I want to try, she knows I do not want a divorce. She has made this clear to me. I also feel this is a control thing with her also, she wants things her way right now.


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## swedish

missmywife said:


> She crys when I bring some things up.


This is a hopeful sign. 


missmywife said:


> Buying her flowers and gifts seem to make things worse when I did it a month ago.


I am not surprised. It does not take much effort to buy/send flowers and at this point it comes off as a desparate attempt to get her back vs. really understanding where she's coming from right now.


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## missmywife

@swedish,

She also made comments to me that I was her "comfort" and "home". She has said, and I know, that she is afraid that things will go back to "normal" if we get back together. I know I cannot prove this to her unless we get another chance.


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## beninneedofhelp

No you cant but can continue to prove other things while you wait thats all i can do as well just little things for her for i to no it will really in truth be the trying that proves it but getting to the point where she wants to try is key i would think.


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## swedish

It's somewhat of a catch-22 if you are not in contact she will not see the changes. Again, her comments are very hopeful, IMO...

a woman who is a friend of a collegue of mine started a company called 'Just lunch'...it's a dating thing where you are matched with people and you have lunch with them....anyway, the concept is so you don't get all stressed and worked up about 'the date' because it's 'just lunch'...no pressure type thing....maybe that's the sort of thing that you need....some 'just lunch' dates....low-key face time...if she's willing of course.


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## nice777guy

So - I'm trying to figure out where all of this leaves ME?

Wife has been sending very mixed signals, but has consistently said she wants to work on the marriage. Why would she say this if she's "already gone"? Is this a good sign, or just likely just a ploy on her part to stretch out the inevitable?

Also, she has shown a continued interest in sex, invited me to go to lunch Sunday (I turned her down), and has been acting VERY/TOO needy the last day and a half while sick.

So - what does this all mean to me? I'm starting to think - with all sincerity - that she is dealing with major depression issues and really doesn't know what she wants - which would be contrary to the idea that she had made up her mind before she left.

Once again, I understand there are patterns - but no two people/separations/marriages are the same - right?


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## missmywife

nice777guy said:


> So - I'm trying to figure out where all of this leaves ME?
> 
> Wife has been sending very mixed signals, but has consistently said she wants to work on the marriage.
> 
> ................
> 
> Once again, I understand there are patterns - but no two people/separations/marriages are the same - right?


If she is saying she wants to work on the marriage, than that is great. My wife hasnt even said that yet, she needs this "space" to see if she wants to work on the marriage. 

Regarding sex, my wife wants sex whenever I see her, even early on in the separation. Before I moved out of the house 2 weeks ago we had sex. Does sex = good sign? Not necessarily.

You are right, everyones situation is different. Case in point. When my wife left, everyone who didnt know her kept telling me "there is someone else". There was never someone else, I knew that and the people close to me who knew her knew that. Thats one of the catch 22s of the net. If you can find lots of information easily, as well as get suggestions/comments from forums like this, but nobody really knows your situation like you do. 

I hope for the best in everyones situation though. To many people nowadays quit, think marriage is disposable. I thought my wife was not like this, I hope she proves me right.


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## beninneedofhelp

id agree this day and age people dont value marriage like it should be to many people see divorce as a easy out now and just run my wifes parents are prime examples her father 4 marriages her mom 3 that i no of and this worries me cause its a trend also in her family she has always seen how to run and not deal with hear feeling in a way to heal together, 
As for me i dont no what to think either when she speaks to me about things its always her being upset and ussually i have to bring it up ,once in a while she calls to vent over a letter or something and then she open up a bit but i think its only cause i dont allow it to escalate like i use to do in the past and this last time she said she was thinking i could come over and spend time with the kids at the house which is something she has been dead set against.
I no also when she speaks to me about things she is upset and emotional and i get a lot of hurtful remarks and that she still is done , but she tells people like my father and a mutual friend she opened up to that she isnt rushing anything till she is 100 percent sure of things that she isnt with no one else or talking to them 
that she misses me and wishes things could be like they use to be again but is scared i would go back to my old ways , so she sometimes seems to give signs of hope as well but im on the outside of that wall no contact and she stays closed off most the time . 
when she is near me she starts to open up but as soon as she realizes it she slams that door closed hard and fast with another hurtful remark i wonder sometimes if she isnt enjoying it right now. 
So maybe i should just give up but for some reason when i get to that point something always comes up or she calls and then there is my kids they keep me going cause i no how much they need me and right now im feeling alienated from them


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## missmywife

beninneedofhelp said:


> when she is near me she starts to open up but as soon as she realizes it she slams that door closed hard and fast with another hurtful remark i wonder sometimes if she isnt enjoying it right now.
> So maybe i should just give up but for some reason when i get to that point something always comes up or she calls and then there is my kids they keep me going cause i no how much they need me and right now im feeling alienated from them


Thats exactly what happens with my wife. She opens up when I am face to face with her but not on the phone. She acts like a different person on the phone. She has also said some pretty fked up stuff but I dont dwell on it since I know she says those things when she is mad. Definitely since you have kids you should keep on trying.


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## beninneedofhelp

that is about all keeping me going right now with it i no without kids right now it be easier to walk away but i cant and when i leave her alone and start to question why i try she calls or something happens that keeps me hoping i guess i dont no if there is hope or not i guess she still loves me so i guess there is still always hope but how to get around the pain and hurts and resentments she feels is something i cant figure out it seems nothing i do is right nothing i do is good enough for her or enough to her to feel like she should try or anything else . These walls seem to be made of iron and in the mean time time just ticks away as she keeps this up its almost like she is trying to force herself to leave me or break the bonds but she dont realize we will always have a family together we will always have them bonds and at the end of every day its still going to be her me and our kids that matter.. I just dont no how to get her to leave them walls down so we can try .. She is under the belief that as friends we get along better when in truth friends do more then we do but we are getting along better but its cause i have learned to talk understand and respond better to people and things said , i guess it comes down to i listen then think then speak and i always try to keep things from escalating into something negative or a yelling fest where i no nothing gets solved and nothing gets resolved only thing that happens in that is people get hurt emotionally and that sometimes cuts deeper then anything else


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## swedish

nice777guy said:


> So - I'm trying to figure out where all of this leaves ME?
> 
> Wife has been sending very mixed signals, but has consistently said she wants to work on the marriage. Why would she say this if she's "already gone"? Is this a good sign, or just likely just a ploy on her part to stretch out the inevitable?
> 
> Also, she has shown a continued interest in sex, invited me to go to lunch Sunday (I turned her down), and has been acting VERY/TOO needy the last day and a half while sick.
> 
> So - what does this all mean to me? I'm starting to think - with all sincerity - that she is dealing with major depression issues and really doesn't know what she wants - which would be contrary to the idea that she had made up her mind before she left.
> 
> Once again, I understand there are patterns - but no two people/separations/marriages are the same - right?


I agree that every situation is different to some extent, but it does help to share our experiences and similiarities as some may apply to your situation...

Your situation almost seems triggered by external factors...your wife's health, subsequent depression, turning to internet friends as an outlet...a place where she feels better about herself...I haven't read all of your posts (but many of them!) and I don't recall her being unhappy or done with you or your marriage...on the contrary, sounds more like she's leaning on her online life and not feeling she can let that go because it upsets you....and btw, I'm on your side with the EA....it needed to end.

Still having sex is not something I can relate to ... that all stopped as soon as I was separated, so not sure what to make of that other than IMO it is a positive sign that she still feels connected to you, idk. 

Do you think her online activities give her a sense of self-worth? I think in your situation you need to understand where this need of hers is coming from...is she trolling for men's attention or just attention in general? If it's men's attention, has she been missing something in her relationship w/you (emotionally) or do you think her illness/depression is the key as to why?

It does sound as though she wants to remain married to you in the long term. I think the bigger issue is whether the status quo is enough for you if you get back together? If she acknowledged her issues and started making positive changes to feel better from day-to-day you both would probably see your marriage in a better light.


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## missmywife

The longer I go without talking to my wife, the more it feels like she really doesnt care. When we started talking again last month she said she cared. Then she would make a comment saying she cant care, that she has to think about whats best for her, not whats best for me or both of us. She also said she wants to make a decision using her mind, not her heart.

This is emotional torture. I wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy.


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## nice777guy

swedish said:


> I agree that every situation is different to some extent, but it does help to share our experiences and similiarities as some may apply to your situation...
> 
> Your situation almost seems triggered by external factors...your wife's health, subsequent depression, turning to internet friends as an outlet...a place where she feels better about herself...I haven't read all of your posts (but many of them!) and I don't recall her being unhappy or done with you or your marriage...on the contrary, sounds more like she's leaning on her online life and not feeling she can let that go because it upsets you....and btw, I'm on your side with the EA....it needed to end.
> 
> Still having sex is not something I can relate to ... that all stopped as soon as I was separated, so not sure what to make of that other than IMO it is a positive sign that she still feels connected to you, idk.
> 
> Do you think her online activities give her a sense of self-worth? I think in your situation you need to understand where this need of hers is coming from...is she trolling for men's attention or just attention in general? If it's men's attention, has she been missing something in her relationship w/you (emotionally) or do you think her illness/depression is the key as to why?
> 
> It does sound as though she wants to remain married to you in the long term. I think the bigger issue is whether the status quo is enough for you if you get back together? If she acknowledged her issues and started making positive changes to feel better from day-to-day you both would probably see your marriage in a better light.


Swedish - thanks for the insights.

I think the attention she is getting online is feeding her ego. Most of her women friends have jobs, husbands, children, etc, while my wife has nothing but time. I think she is leading these guys on in order to get more than the normal amount of attention. I truly don’t think she’s done anything physical.

And yes - she is missing something from our relationship. Since she’s been sick I’ve had to focus more on the kids and household duties. I’ve also attended appointments with her, helped her fill out forms, listened to her talk for hours about how bad she feels or about test results – so I thought I was doing a great job. 

I can see that we weren’t connecting emotionally, but I feel that this goes both ways. She commented before that she didn’t have to talk about her health with these guys. And I pointed out that I don’t come home begging to hear the latest lab results.

If she coud work to improve her health, then she could help with the kids and the house more. Also, if her health improved, maybe she wouldn't need to lean on these unhealthy outlets for her self-esteem. It would also free my time up a bit so that we could begin to work together to figure out what is missing and how to improve things for the both of us. 

But I know I can’t be a single father, a disability/health advocate, part-time caretaker, the handy man, the breadwinner (50 hour work weeks – not terrible) and then be expected to be her BFF and Don Juan too.


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## missmywife

I just emailed a friend of my wifes, telling her I haven't talked to my wife in a week. I said I dont feel like my wife cares about me, yet my wife says she does. Her friend said actions speak louder than words. I replied back, true, that I wish we could at least be talking and doing things one night a week, making this situation productive. She replied back that she wouldn't waste her time at this point. I replied back if thats her way of saying my wife says its over. She replied back, thats her best guess. Last week her friend said my wife flip flops back and forth every other day, that she isnt sure what she is going to do in the end. I know I shouldn't give up unless I feel its time, but comments like this take hope away from me. The Divorce Remedy book says never give up, even in the darkest hours. I feel so helpless sitting back and doing nothing. Its like seeing something moving further and further away and Im not doing anything to get closer to it.


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## swedish

nice777guy said:


> I think the attention she is getting online is feeding her ego. Most of her women friends have jobs, husbands, children, etc, while my wife has nothing but time. I think she is leading these guys on in order to get more than the normal amount of attention. I truly don’t think she’s done anything physical.


This almost sounds as if your wife is feeling inadequate as a wife/mother and the outlet is an escape from reality and makes her feel good/worthy.


nice777guy said:


> She commented before that she didn’t have to talk about her health with these guys.


Again sounding like an escape from her reality.


nice777guy said:


> If she coud work to improve her health, then she could help with the kids and the house more. Also, if her health improved, maybe she wouldn't need to lean on these unhealthy outlets for her self-esteem. It would also free my time up a bit so that we could begin to work together to figure out what is missing and how to improve things for the both of us.


I totally agree with you here...the biggest problem is that she needs to want this and take action. It's the more difficult road, but for her, you and the kids I hope she decides to take it.


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## nice777guy

I hope so too, but we've reached a point where my suggestions are not receiving much consideration.

Even now that she's out of the house and only has the kids part-time, they both last night mentioned that "mommy is still ignoring us and playing with her phone and her laptop when we come over."

I'm at a loss.


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## beninneedofhelp

i seriously believe that is happening all to me as well with my wife i just got talking to a marriage gure with the program the enviroment changer or something like that by larry bolliata i think i spelled it right ill post more in a bit..


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## nice777guy

W came over last night before we got hit with a snow storm. She doesn’t work, and we both thought this made more sense than either her rushing over in the morning, or me getting the kids up and rushing them to her apartment before work.

Right now I’d guess school will be delayed or canceled again tomorrow, so another night together is likely.

It was a nice night. No fights. She “shared” the TV with the kids. Left her laptop at her apartment. Actually seemed to have her feelings hurt – instead of just getting mad – when the oldest said she was thought we were separated and mom wasn’t supposed to be staying over.

I have been so worked up about some of her actions and this separation in general over the last week. Then out of the blue, a good day comes along and just confuses me further.


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## Amplexor

nice777guy said:


> I have been so worked up about some of her actions and this separation in general over the last week. Then out of the blue, a good day comes along and just confuses me further.


That ole emotional roller coaster comes with unlimited re-rides. Hang in there.


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## missmywife

Amplexor said:


> That ole emotional roller coaster comes with unlimited re-rides. Hang in there.


unlimited re-rides that nobody wants... 

I wouldnt wish this experience on my worst enemy, its been hell.


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## beninneedofhelp

Well i talked to a insurance guy today about dental and got some dental insurance lol but anyways ended up me and this guy became friends over the subject of my wife and my situation , his buddy was dealing with the same thing and this might add to this post i dont no .
But his buddy went through this emotional roller coaster for almost 2 and a half years.... He did what most of us are probably trying to do and talk , show and push that he is different and this separation and divorce talks are not the answer .. He finally got tired of it and stopped and just let her be what she thought she wanted to be and decided to just let it all go , turns out after not calling her and talking and trying to change her mind she called him after a couple months and walla she wanted to talk she did not no longer want to go that road and decided to try and work things out , 3 years later there still together and have a new baby and are happy together.

The insurance guy remembers very clearly cause its his best friend since age 6 and his wife and his buddys wife are best friends from JR high so they were caught in the middle and it turns out it wasnt till he gave her space and stopped trying for her and her alone till she wanted to work things out .. So i would say all these things about space are good in one sence, She may need it and like someone else said here its just the door opening up its when it opens you got to take the 2nd and 3rd steps and so forth to keep that door open and put your marriage back in order ..

Atleast that is what i am getting and after yesterday and its posted on my thread in general the entire situation i think im not just believing it i think its almost fact from the things i read to what i started to see yesterday , i dont no for sure but id love to hear feed back on what took place , but i also no it dont mean it will work either , truth be told i think it comes to how much she still cares how strong she is still and how we play our cards..

It goes to show and it took a while to see this but when i say its this isnt needed she says yes its in essence pulling away again . So when you agree instead she slows for a second going umm wait this isnt what i expected maybe something has changed and she is or he i guess to becomes curious and opens the door a little more . Before long the lack of fighting with her or him starts to open the door to talking more and before long the closeness is back and the feelings of the past start going away for them cause now they are feeling supported and secure and that starts the trust back up and then things become more possible for her or him to want to try again .. Does that make sence ?. I no agreeing with them sometimes isnt always what we want to do and it hurts sometimes to say it even but its what they may need to feel comfortable again with you. I truly believe i understand now and i believe it will help get them walls down , is it to late after all the pushing and such that just made it worse ? I dont no . Could she find someone else ? Maybe but he wont be there months down the road still either or years since we have kids , atleast its not likely. Most men dont look to tie down with a pre built family ussually and sorry if this upsets the women its most likely just a booty call for us


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## Amplexor

beninneedofhelp said:


> He finally got tired of it and stopped and just let her be what she thought she wanted to be and decided to just let it all go , turns out after not calling her and talking and trying to change her mind she called him after a couple months and walla she wanted to talk she did not no longer want to go that road and decided to try and work things out , 3 years later there still together and have a new baby and are happy together.


This is very much what Dobson talks about in "Love Must be Tough"


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## beninneedofhelp

Hmm Amp go to my thread below and read up please give me your thoughts on this and what this ""mutual friend "is able to do if its good or bad? Also i think im finally seeing the path due to those events that happened let me no if i am or not ... But i do believe supporting her right now in odd ways and just being there when she calls and not fighting her with things is the only way to get the walls down were we can talk about working things out . Am i on the right path or what? And anymore advise or things you may have done to help with your past situation would be greatly appreciated as well


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## missmywife

beninneedofhelp said:


> He finally got tired of it and stopped and just let her be what she thought she wanted to be and decided to just let it all go , turns out after not calling her and talking and trying to change her mind she called him after a couple months and walla she wanted to talk she did not no longer want to go that road and decided to try and work things out , 3 years later there still together and have a new baby and are happy together.



Thats a nice happy story, thanks for posting.

I went "No Contact" on my wife for 1.5 mths. She came to me to talk after all that time, told me she missed me, didnt know what she wanted. She didnt know if she wanted to work on th marriage, she knew Ive always did. For some reason she got scared away, so I have to go NC again. Its very disconcerting, which the emotional roller coaster is. 

Just remember this (I got this from the Divorce Remedy book).



> "The only person who knows when you should stop working on your marriage is you. You are the expert here, not your mother, father, spouse, rabbi, pastor, counselor....just you. Only you, in the privacy of your own thoughts at night, can tell whether you've left no stone unturned, whether you still have the energy to give."


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## beninneedofhelp

Interesting quote above and one that is true im sure right now im just going to hang on to the ride and hope it stops without me having to get sick


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## missmywife

Well, I came back from vacation last night. My wife called a couple of days ago, I didnt answer since I was still on vacation. It messed with my mind though, I had it in my mind she was calling to say when can I move my stuff out and she decided she wants the D. Well, I was right. She sent me a txt when I was on the plane and I called her back. At first she asked me about a bill, then she asked "When can you move your stuff out?" The exact thing I thought would happen. I said so you want a D, she said yes. I said ok. I needed to know what happen last month when she came back, why she did this. She said she was scared and thought we could work on things. I asked what made her feel we couldnt work on things, she said she didnt know and she would have to think about it. WTF?! How can she not know that? Either she is lying to me or mentally unstable. She says she is still scared. She said she knew she didnt want to work on things 2 weeks ago, but also knew I was going on vacation and didnt want to ruin it. Then I tell her im coming next week to get my stuff and she says I need to get a hotel room. It will take about a week to pack, at least. This upset me, I told her I need the house for week. She heard me getting upset and said we can talk about this in a couple of days.

So, im not in limbo anymore. This is the 3rd time she has said "its over" since we separated. Im throwing in the towel, there isnt anything else I can do. Ive done everything plus things most people wouldnt have done. Its very sad but maybe this is really best for me. Everyone says that, that I will realize she is doing me a favor.


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## larniegrl

missmywife...take care of yourself and let this miserable, unstable woman go her own way. No person deserves to be "yo-yo-ed" for months on end just because someone "doesn't know what they want." I know you love her, that you want this marriage in some way...but you cannot stay on this ride forever, it will destroy you.

I would think that an affair on any level would change the intentions of a separation, but in my case...I pushed, waited, prayed, got help for myself, tried to accepted it, yelled, cried...and am now trying to move on. Would I love for my husband to chase me down, change his verbal/emotionally abusive ways and sweep me off my feet? ABSOLUTELY.

Will that realistically happen? No...he hasn't cared for the last 3 years...why would he care now. Honestly, if he pursued me now...I would still emotionally want to have him back, but I couldn't trust his intentions. It would take such a radical change.

That being said, I guess separation is the fast-street to divorce. If the marriage is "bad" (I know that is relative) to physically separate...than divorce is HIGHLY likely.

I don't want a divorce...I don't want this, but I've cannot change him...cannot make this relationship healthy...and I refuse to live like this for 3, 5, 20 yrs in hopes that he will just "wake" up one day a different man...

I met with a lawyer today...just to check out the options to protect myself financially...etc. It was very scary...I hate this.


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## missmywife

@larniegirl, 

Thanks for the reply, I hope you get better soon.

Heres my update:

So, I woke up depressed again today (typical). I felt like seeing my pets, so I headed to my house 2 hours away. My W and I already agreed on who gets what, property and pets. I went to pick up a few other things, since I dont plan on moving out until next weekend. I gathered my things and my 2 cats, txted her that I was at the house to get some things and the cats. She freaked. Why did I txt her? Because I wanted to give her at least a heads up. She txt back saying no, can I wait. I said wait for what. She called, crying saying that she cant believe I can be so cold and take the cats without her saying goodbye. I have to admit, I felt guilty about it but at the same time she has been ice cold to me for the past 4 mths. She asked if I could wait till she gets off of work. I didnt even say anything until she started screaming that things can get dirty, we can get lawyers, take all the money, etc. She hung up. Next txt said that she knows I want to be mean to her and there was nothing she could do about it. Next she said she was on her way.

When she arrived, she was crying. Couldnt believe I could do such a thing. (Me, Mr Nice guy for the past 4 mths) She was also upset that I came to the house without her knowing. I told her this was my house also and I have every right to be here. We started talking about the D, when I was going to move, went over the separation agreement again, etc. She calmed down by this point. I said I already started to right up the documents for the mediator and asked her to email me the things I needed from her. I was stern and assertive the entire time, no pleading or begging. I did ask her for an answer to my question the other day, why didnt see feel we could work on things last month. She said because she didnt love me anymore, cant love me again, and that whenever she thinks about us together she thinks about the 11 years of unhappiness. She also said she doesnt have it in her to try to make it work, to much time would have to be invested and would rather start with a clean slate on life. I didnt argue, said ok. She asked about my vacation, I told her how much fun I had and how much I liked the city. Its one of the places Im thinking about moving. We chit chatted about some other non R things. She started asking me how to do different things that I usually do, even asked me if I could right instructions for her. I laughed, said its not my job anymore, she would have to figure it out. I made plans to move my stuff, asked her not to be there. I also said I dont want to see her until we meet with the mediator. Whatever we need to do, email or txt.

Something weird happen today. I felt different, almost like I dont love/care for her like I did a week ago. I know I will most likely feel different tomorrow, but I think I may have had some closer today. At least I had some questions answered. I am accepting the fact that it is over and that the W I married doesnt exist anymore. I thought this way in Nov when I started detaching, it helped. She made a comment that I would be M again in a year, I laughed. I needed to do a few more things before I left, so I asked her to leave. She needed me out the house in 30 min, I took another hour or so...

So I feel better right now. On the way home I thought about my future, the possibilities. Did I do wrong today? I think not. I was tired of being Mr nice guy. I need to start thinking about myself. I started to make a plan for the next 2 weeks, meet with friends, join a gym, work on the documents for the mediator.

In the end though, it all comes down to the signing of the papers. I told her months ago that nothing is final until the papers are signed. She wants the D ASAP, wants to get it over, so ive accepted that it is truly over...


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## nice777guy

bump for wondertalk


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## missmywife

nice777guy said:


> bump for wondertalk


is wondertalk someone on this board or are you curious whats going on with everyone? 

update on my sitch, I started moving things out of the house last weekend, will finish this weekend. My wife is truly a different person. She said over and over that she has never been happy in the 10 years of our marriage that I believe its become true in her mind. Nothing I can do anymore, Ive chased her long enough. Im moving on with my life. I hope the best for others who are giving their spouse "space", since I still believe people should work things out unless theres extreme circumstances (chronic infidelity, drugs, abuse). Meeting with the mediator in about 2 weeks, divorce will be final in 4 weeks...


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## lostinparadise

my wife asked for a trial separation, she has been / on medication for over 3yrs as she had - 2 hip replacements, and then got additied to the pills, its been a touch road finanacials and has taken its tole on our relationship I have been working on giving her hope, and tried to get her to get off the pills after the last surgery - finally she got clean, and went to a - NA - meeting and after 30days of 30 meetings she said my life was too - chaotic, and she needed peace and asked for a 6month separation, I have been - barely paying the bills, and havnt had the time to spend with her and I know I wasn't always there for her, and I have things to work on with my life, she is now working on her life and thinks I should work on my life, she says she still loves me but there hasn't been much intimacy for a ton of time mostly as she has been in pain all the time, the NA thing is great for her to get off the pills but now I think they brainwashed her into believing to get away from anyone / anything that stresses her out / don't think any of them are married in her group probably, anyone gone through anything like this - or ( possibly she was waiting to get through all the surgery's to dump me ) not sure - all the comments above about not many people surviving a trial separation - isn't very optimistic, 1/2 of me feels maybe she just needs space and the other 1/2 maybe thinks - I should move on. she isn't seeing anyone, she isn't seeing anyone - but should I, she said she wants divorcing me / but - Im not sure I can just sit around and extend the - what if - and pain, any - ideas would be helpful


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## PHTlump

Seriously, lost, start a new thread.


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