# Questions about Secret Emailing



## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

Warning: This is very long!
But this incident is pretty much the reason I started reading this forum. So I'm finally going to post my questions about it.


My partner is transparent and honest. He describes himself this way, and I observed this about him, 100%. Until August.
I looked at email (on his phone) and found email exchange between him and a woman he dated many years ago. 
I could only skim it, because he quickly took the phone away.
The only details I know for sure: They were meeting for lunch on a day I would be at work. Parking separately, getting into one car and going to some restaurant. She assured him she would not tell her husband.
That's all I could read.

His explanation:
They are friends, they've emailed/talked/met through the years. She was complaining to him about her bad marriage, and he was just trying to encourage her.
The lunch was completely platonic, but he felt uncomfortable w/ her husband knowing.
They've had platonic meetings in the past, he's not interested in her in that way.

He didn't tell me, because he knew it would bother me,and he knew it was harmless.

He would not show me the email. He deleted it. He said that it would make things worse.

Over a few days, I decided that I should try and move past this, and stay with him.
He promises that he will never meet with a person of the opposite sex without telling me (and vice versa)
I've left out all the good things about us, of which there are many. 
But this incident changed things for me, which changed how I act, and I'm trying to figure out if I can really move past it.
Now, I have an even harder time trusting him. My insecurity drives him crazy. But we are trying to stay together.

Background:
I had a hard first marriage that made me take a long break from relationships. (Husband cheated, it hurt me very deeply)
As a result, it's fair to say that I have 'issues with trust'. 

I told him up front about it, because I was worried it would be a problem, mostly because he has (IMO) many female friends and his ex-girlfriends contact him (IMO) frequently.
He always shows me their texts, or lets me know they email, and he asks how I want him to respond. (I didn't ask him to do this, it's an agreement that he came up with. I had a guy or two that I'd dated contact me.)

That day, I had an intuition to check his phone, I have no explanation but that. (He'd say I'm paranoid, so that I have that intuition 100 times and maybe one time it's right. I understand why he'd say that, but all the same it's weird how I had a compulsion that day to specifically check his email on his phone.)
Also -- I'm glad I did it, he'd have never told me.
I know that it's a problem that I am glad I checked his phone, and that normal people do not look in the SO's phones.
I feel compelled to verify things now. 
I am going to a counselor this week, if I like this one, I'll keep going.
--------------------------------

Do any of you have insight into this kind of situation?
Maybe a relationship that survived this?
Maybe I'm being dramatic and it's really not that big a deal?
Ideas for direction I can take with counseling?

Thanks, in advance, and thanks for reading my book. =)


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Bottom line - he chose to put her above you and to lie to you about it.

He betrayed your trust.

And to do it to meet up with and ex lover to hear about her bad marriage.

That's the exact opening to two ex lovers finding themselves in bed together that plays out every day on real life.

I don't see this a you dong anything wrong.

I do see him selectively lying to you, and him continuing relationships with Exs as examples of him excusing very poor boundaries and him making poor choices.

Cheating is just a question of having sex with another person. It's about who you are loyal and honest with.

He did choose to put her about being honest with you.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

I think that what he did was inappropriate and a violation of trust between you, but at the same time it was a pretty minor and forgivable one as long as he's telling the truth. I believe that meetings with exes and things of that sort are always the kinds of things we should tell our partners about beforehand, even if they're 100% platonic. The fact that the ex is in a bad marriage and not telling her own husband means that the ex may have mixed ideas about what's going on, even if your husband is totally innocent. So it's better to be upfront about that kind of situation before it turns into anything worse.

That said, if he promised not to do it again, you have to trust him, and let go of your urge to keep checking his phone so long as he isn't giving you any reason to think he's doing something wrong. If you are constantly spying on him, you risk making him feel trapped and controlled and untrusted, which is not healthy for your relationship. 

There's a bit of chicken and egg here -- he deleted the e-mail because he was nervous you'd see it. Maybe that's because he felt guilty, but on the other hand maybe that's because you're so untrusting of him that he was afraid you'd get upset over something ultimately minor.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> Bottom line - he chose to put her above you and to lie to you about it.
> 
> 
> He did choose to put her about being honest with you.


This was my POV, too, and he agreed. 

I'll add why it's disturbing, too: he has been very, very open about other exes contacting him (shows me their texts, etc) It has happened about 4-5 times in the last 7 months. 

But this one --- he kept secret.

So I was trying to think of a motivation to lie to me that *wasn't* sexual. I can't come up with much.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

John Lee said:


> I think that what he did was inappropriate and a violation of trust between you, but at the same time it was a pretty minor and forgivable one as long as he's telling the truth. I believe that meetings with exes and things of that sort are always the kinds of things we should tell our partners about beforehand, even if they're 100% platonic. The fact that the ex is in a bad marriage and not telling her own husband means that the ex may have mixed ideas about what's going on, even if your husband is totally innocent. So it's better to be upfront about that kind of situation before it turns into anything worse.
> 
> That said, if he promised not to do it again, you have to trust him, and let go of your urge to keep checking his phone so long as he isn't giving you any reason to think he's doing something wrong. If you are constantly spying on him, you risk making him feel trapped and controlled and untrusted, which is not healthy for your relationship.
> 
> There's a bit of chicken and egg here -- he deleted the e-mail because he was nervous you'd see it. Maybe that's because he felt guilty, but on the other hand maybe that's because you're so untrusting of him that he was afraid you'd get upset over something ultimately minor.


"Inappropriate" is exactly how my partner characterizes it, but he maintains that he had zero sexual interest or intention, so it's not as if it were cheating.
He told me some of the things that were in the email that I'd not like (She complained that her husband doesn't find her attractive, so he complimented her physically, for example) He said the black-and-white reading that would make me very upset.
He also referred to one of their romps from back in the day, just a sentence and just playful. 
He claims none of this is flirting.

And he says EXACTLY what you say -- that I'd over-react if I saw it, and that's why he deleted it.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

He did something wrong. He lapsed. He made a mistake. He acknowledged it and apologized. You have to put things in context -- if he doesn't usually do things like this, if he's never done something like this, I think you should let it go as long as he promises not to do it again. If it's repeat behavior, it's more of a concern. But all men make mistakes.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

gloriagloria said:


> This was my POV, too, and he agreed.
> 
> I'll add why it's disturbing, too: he has been very, very open about other exes contacting him (shows me their texts, etc) It has happened about 4-5 times in the last 7 months.
> 
> ...


He kept it secret because his dinosaur brain said to him

"Dude, this chick is unhappy in her marriage and she wants to meet up with you and 'chat'"

He kept it secret because he knew what was likely up and he wanted to see her. He wanted to see how she would dress FOR HIM, how she would TALK TO HIM, and his she would make herself OPEN TO HIM.

Even if he didnt have sex with her - he kept it secret because hus dinosaur told him that keeping it secret maximized his chances of having sex with her.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, it appears his interest is sexual whether hers is or not. It's possible his email was worse than he has admitted. That's something you will never know. So the question is whether you can put that behind you given your history with your cheating ex. Trusting someone after you've been cheated on is very difficult for many of us. We keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.


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## soulsearch (Aug 2, 2013)

deleting the email, for me, would be way worse. it's one thing to know exactly what went down, quite another to now have that doubt in your mind. I'd explain that to him, and if your relationship is good, try to get passed it. in these days of smart phones, if someone wants a secret way to communicate, they have tons of options, and you would never know.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

So, he basically told her she's hot and reminded her of one of their sexual encounters. He doesn't consider that flirting? You are not being paranoid, since he deleted the email there was likely more damning flirting in there. I would tell him you want to go to this lunch date with him to comfort this poor woman, and see what he has to say about that.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> He kept it secret because his dinosaur brain said to him
> 
> "Dude, this chick is unhappy in her marriage and she wants to meet up with you and 'chat'"
> 
> ...


I think this is right. But here's the thing: you're not going to find a man on this earth who doesn't once in a long while go a little too far with flirting when given the opportunity. An ex sought his attention, his ego was flattered, he remembered the old times, he temporarily lost his judgment. We can't know what would have happened if you hadn't caught him. But if he's loyal otherwise, chances are nothing would have happened. Look at how he behaves overall, look at his character. You're never going to find someone who is 100% trustworthy and loyal 100% of the time, never doing the slightest thing to betray trust.. If you have 95%, that's pretty good. If he's not one to cheat, then this seems forgivable.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Trust but verify.

For every rat you see there are 50 more you don't.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Bottom line - he chose to put her above you and to lie to you about it.
> 
> He betrayed your trust.
> 
> ...


Reposting for "truthiness."


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

gloriagloria said:


> "Inappropriate" is exactly how my partner characterizes it, but he maintains that he had zero sexual interest or intention, so it's not as if it were cheating.
> He told me some of the things that were in the email that I'd not like (She complained that her husband doesn't find her attractive, so he complimented her physically, for example) He said the black-and-white reading that would make me very upset.
> *He also referred to one of their romps from back in the day, just a sentence and just playful. *
> He claims none of this is flirting.
> ...


There is absolutely 100% no healthy reason for him to remind her of their sexual past together.
The ONLY reason he brought it up was to bait her, to see what her reaction was going to be.
He's so full of it, I'm surprised he's not shoveling it while he's talking to you.
I can't imagine that if he found out that you were reliving a sexual situation with an ex of yours that he would be cool with it.
Nope, I'm calling BS about this entire thing, he kept it all a secret for a reason.
As you pointed out, he's never kept it a secret that any of his ex's contacted him & unless you freaked out when he told you about them, then he's projecting that you would have freaked if he told now. 
Yeah, completely BS.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

So he wants to go out on dates with an ex... Platonic ones. Uh huh.

Ask poster 'hard to detach' if that is a good or a bad idea.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

John Lee said:


> I think this is right. But here's the thing: you're not going to find a man on this earth who doesn't once in a long while go a little too far with flirting when given the opportunity. An ex sought his attention, his ego was flattered, he remembered the old times, he temporarily lost his judgment. We can't know what would have happened if you hadn't caught him. But if he's loyal otherwise, chances are nothing would have happened. Look at how he behaves overall, look at his character. You're never going to find someone who is 100% trustworthy and loyal 100% of the time, never doing the slightest thing to betray trust.. If you have 95%, that's pretty good. If he's not one to cheat, then this seems forgivable.



The 95% idea is intriguing to me. 
I've been trying hard to put myself in his shoes, or anyone's, and really think about attraction/flirtation/etc.
Is it really that threatening to me? Is it even about me? 

I agree with every other poster --- Setting up this lunch date was inappropriate. More than. 
Deleting the email was wrong. 
He is lying when he says that his feelings toward her are platonic.
At the very least, he exhibited a blaring lack of judgement.

Yet.... I also believe that he wasn't trying to have sex with her. at least not that day.

So I found out, cut it off at the pass, and he knows how I feel about it. He says he will not keep communication between him and any female a secret again. 

He stands by his claim that he is not interested in her (and has many 'proofs' of this), but it's really irrelevant.

I believe he betrayed my trust, and I need to figure out if I can stay with him and ever trust him again.

As I said before, there are other qualities about our relationship that make me think it's worth trying.

Lowering my expectation of loyalty seems like a good strategy, if I choose to stay. So thanks for that.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

Phenix70 said:


> Reposting for "truthiness."


haha @ 'truthiness' =)


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

scatty said:


> So, he basically told her she's hot and reminded her of one of their sexual encounters. He doesn't consider that flirting? You are not being paranoid, since he deleted the email there was likely more damning flirting in there. I would tell him you want to go to this lunch date with him to comfort this poor woman, and see what he has to say about that.


I ruined that lunch date so (as far as I know) it didn't happen.
But that would have been a much better response than mine.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

soulsearch said:


> deleting the email, for me, would be way worse. it's one thing to know exactly what went down, quite another to now have that doubt in your mind. I'd explain that to him, and if your relationship is good, try to get passed it. in these days of smart phones, if someone wants a secret way to communicate, they have tons of options, and you would never know.


Re: Deleting the email...He claims kind what @John Lee said earlier, though: That I over-react to things, and reading the actual words would have been much, much worse.

But I agree with you. I believe that knowing all the truth would have hurt, but may be much better than what I imagine now.

And your point about smartphones is spot on. There are many, many ways to communicate and never get caught.
He may have just resolved to be more careful now.
I will never really know if he is being loyal.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> Trust but verify.
> 
> For every rat you see there are 50 more you don't.


I agree with the rat idea.
Like that quote "The truth will out"
If something else in this ballpark happens, I guess I need to have a plan.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

Phenix70 said:


> There is absolutely 100% no healthy reason for him to remind her of their sexual past together.
> The ONLY reason he brought it up was to bait her, to see what her reaction was going to be.
> He's so full of it, I'm surprised he's not shoveling it while he's talking to you.
> I can't imagine that if he found out that you were reliving a sexual situation with an ex of yours that he would be cool with it.
> ...


You bring up a very good point:
He says that he knew it was harmless, because he knows her and he understands their friendship. 
BUT if I did something similar with a guy he didn't know, it wouldn't matter if I thought it was harmless. He absolutely would NOT be OK if the situation were reversed. 
He says that thinking about that helped him understand my reaction, and understand the weight of what he did.

I still think it's BS though, because, as you pointed out, he did show me other texts, and told me about other emails. 
This is the one that was kept secret. (Or at least, one that I learned about)


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> So he wants to go out on dates with an ex... Platonic ones. Uh huh.
> 
> Ask poster 'hard to detach' if that is a good or a bad idea.


I will try and find posts from that user , thanks~


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

gloriagloria said:


> You bring up a very good point:
> He says that he knew it was harmless, because he knows her and he understands their friendship.
> BUT if I did something similar with a guy he didn't know, it wouldn't matter if I thought it was harmless. He absolutely would NOT be OK if the situation were reversed.
> He says that thinking about that helped him understand my reaction, and understand the weight of what he did.
> ...


That's what would get me, why this one person, why now?
I don't think you're off base at all for being confused & hurt by his actions, his actions go against everything else he has done up to this point.
I don't know about regaining the trust, that's a tough one.
I suppose you can keep an eye out for anything out of the ordinary, but honestly that could just drive you up the wall. 
I think it's up to him to be as transparent as he can from this moment on, including not deleting msgs should he get any more from her.
If she's having marriages issues of her own, more than likely he will be hearing from her again.
Then it becomes a matter of whether or not he tells you or pursues any more contact with her.
Now it's mostly a waiting game.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

If he has an affair, I believe you will find out sooner or later anyway. His reaction to me does not suggest a conscious plan to have an affair, more like he was just testing the line a bit. Somewhere in his mind (maybe the "dinosaur brain" part as one poster said) there was some interest there, but that doesn't mean he was going to do something. Some part of him probably also recognized that he was going a bit too far, which is probably part of why he deleted the e-mail. But that doesn't mean there's more to the story. I say this as a man who has been in a similar situation once. Maybe I'm projecting myself onto him too much. But I was in a situation very similar to this once, I didn't want to cheat, and I didn't cheat.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

John Lee said:


> If he has an affair, I believe you will find out sooner or later anyway. His reaction to me does not suggest a conscious plan to have an affair, more like he was just testing the line a bit. Somewhere in his mind (maybe the "dinosaur brain" part as one poster said) there was some interest there, but that doesn't mean he was going to do something. Some part of him probably also recognized that he was going a bit too far, which is probably part of why he deleted the e-mail. But that doesn't mean there's more to the story. I say this as a man who has been in a similar situation once. Maybe I'm projecting myself onto him too much. But I was in a situation very similar to this once, I didn't want to cheat, and I didn't cheat.


I really appreciate this perspective -- maybe I am projecting you into my situation now, but it is useful to hear that it's possible for something like this to happen, and there be no intention of cheating.

As Phoenix said(above), it's a waiting game.
Or maybe not 'active waiting'...
I actually need to stop obsessing about it.... be aware but not fixated. And be more positive. All of which is very, very hard for me. 
But I should correct compulsive, negative thinking whether I stay with this man or not.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Can you look at his phone bill?

If you can, can you find the text he deleted?

If you can, good. If you can't, then he is using a method that doesn't show up on the phone bill.

If you can find the text that he deleted, can you then look at the other texts he's sent and received to see how many he has sent to her, times of day, etc.?

If there was or is cheating going on, usually the number of texts will tell the story.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

What you are looking for is a deviation in his behavior. Did he have lunch dates with other old exes, or just this one? Did he always show you the texts from this one, or the other ones, and just hid/deleted this lone text? Is the showing of all texts something that happened since this lunch date, or has been part of your relationship all along?

Keeping in touch with exes is like playing with fire.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

gloriagloria said:


> I could only skim it, because he quickly took the phone away.
> 
> Parking separately, getting into one car and going to some restaurant. She assured him she would not tell her husband.
> 
> ...





gloriagloria said:


> Maybe I'm being dramatic and it's really not that big a deal?


Insight on how to deal with it? No. But I'm a man. And as a man, I am qualified to tell you that he wants to screw her. Of that I have ZERO doubt. Just wanted to let you know that this is a big deal. A HUGE deal.

Good luck.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

John Lee said:


> I think that what he did was inappropriate and a violation of trust between you, but at the same time it was a pretty minor and forgivable one...


Agreed.




John Lee said:


> ...as long as he's telling the truth.



Oops.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

gloriagloria said:


> I will try and find posts from that user , thanks~


community link at top
members list
H
click hard to detach
view public profile
second tab is statistics
find all threads started by hard to detach

hint you already guessed. Its a bad bad BAD idea. Hes not the first.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

OP,

Your answer to your dilema can be answered with this question:

"If your husgand found the OW spread eagle waiting for him, would he hesistate or refuse to have sex?" 

If no, then time to make some decisions.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> Can you look at his phone bill?
> 
> If you can, can you find the text he deleted?
> 
> ...


It was email, not a text.
And I don't have access to his phone bills anyway.
I won't even have the ability to check his phone anymore.

After this incident, I had a freak-out where I invaded his privacy and searched his computer room for other evidence. I found nothing, and now it's made him feel that he can't trust me to not go through all his stuff when he's not home.
He changed his locks, his phone is locked down, he will never be the type to share passwords.

So I can't really "Trust, but verify".
I can just "Trust, but not fully."
And have an action plan ready to implement at the next sign of disloyalty.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

MrK said:


> Insight on how to deal with it? No. But I'm a man. And as a man, I am qualified to tell you that he wants to screw her. Of that I have ZERO doubt. Just wanted to let you know that this is a big deal. A HUGE deal.
> 
> Good luck.


I agree that his intentions were not good. I can also see @John Lee's point, though, that maybe he did not actually want to have sex with her.

But I do agree that his intentions were in that direction.
((Texts from other exes he showed me are women who have gained a lot of weight or are older now. This woman is 10 years younger, and thin. I pointed that out to him, that his 'helpful' nature seems to come out for hot women over not-so-hot ones.))

Questions for you:
Do you think it's understandable for a man to be sexually attracted to another woman?
Do you think it's a recoverable offense?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I smell "trickle-truthing" here! He simply wants to place himself in the most adventageous position of having his cake and eating it, too!

Infidelity, Secrecy, and Lies make excellent triple bed-partners ~ and they have ever since the inception of time! 

He has given you a brief preview of what you can expect of him in a potential long-term relationship.

Time to give him the air, Sweetheart! You absolutely deserve far, far better!*


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

Sanity said:


> OP,
> 
> Your answer to your dilema can be answered with this question:
> 
> ...


I believe there is about a 30% chance he'd do something sexual with her, if given this opportunity.

What decisions do you mean?

I guess a corollary question I am asking:

*What percentage of men could be presented with a woman they find attractive, 'spread eagle and waiting', and say no?
* I think it's very, very low.

I suspect this will be an unpopular opinion, but here goes:

I love men. I love many, many things that are uniquely male. 
But I don't think true, 100% fidelity is possible for them.
I think they are hard-wired to have as many sexual partners as they can, and if they want to be monogamous, they have to consciously work at it. And even then, their true desires and impulses do NOT align with their actions. They may say all kinds of (ridiculous!) things, such as "You are the most beautiful woman to me!" but they are simply forcing their will or trying to optimize the relationship, they don't really deeply feel that way.

Women are hard-wired to bond tightly with a single person. I sort of 'imprint' on the man I'm in love with, I truly do not struggle with the temptation of wanting another person.

((Not trying to sound arrogant here -- I totally struggle with despair and not believing relationships can't work and things like that. I'm just saying, though, that other men do not tempt me at all.)) 

And I'll add this: In a way, it's a nobler thing when men try to be faithful, because they are going against all the evolution and their ture nature and instinct. I give these men a lot of credit.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Sanity said:


> Your answer to your dilema can be answered with this question:
> 
> "If your husgand found the OW spread eagle waiting for him, would he hesistate or refuse to have sx?"
> 
> If no, then time to make some decisions.


Few men could resist that. Period. Thinking back on some of my ex-gf's, I probably couldn't resist that. 

The key, if you give a F about your marriage/spouse, is to not put yourself in that sitch in the first place.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

gloriagloria said:


> I believe there is about a 30% chance he'd do something sexual with her, if given this opportunity.
> 
> What decisions do you mean?
> 
> ...


I'm not going to lie to you. Yes most men would likely find it too hard to resist hence the best defense is boundries which your husband violated. 

How's your sex life? How do you treat him? Not that i'm justifying his behavior, just trying to understand the situation better.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

gloriagloria said:


> He changed his locks, his phone is locked down, he will never be the type to share passwords.


Is this okay with you?

Overall I'm not a big fan of snooping because I think if someone is going to cheat they are going to cheat. My issue with this is he got caught then he shut you out. 

That doesn't look good in my opinion. I believe once you get caught lying you lose your right to privacy.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

thunderstruck said:


> Few men could resist that. Period. Thinking back on some of my ex-gf's, I probably couldn't resist that.
> 
> The key, if you give a F about your marriage/spouse, is to not put yourself in that sitch in the first place.


I had that happen to me while married. Had a ex facebook message me and she was recently divorced and overly friendly. I remember her very "fondly" and we had tons of fun but I moved. I respectfully told her that I was married and that it's not right to keep talking. I then blocked her just in case. This is not to say I didn't think of "good old times" in the shower that night but that's where it ended. Down the drain.........


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> Is this okay with you?
> 
> Overall I'm not a big fan of snooping because I think if someone is going to cheat they are going to cheat. My issue with this is he got caught then he shut you out.
> 
> That doesn't look good in my opinion. I believe once you get caught lying you lose your right to privacy.


She doesn't have any enforceable "right" to snoop and yes he does has a reasonable expectation of privacy. I never understood why people who are cheated on suddenly get all these "rights" to invade a persons space like a child. All she has to right to is simply ask him to show him his phone and texts and he can say yes or no. From there she needs to decide if she wants to stay married to somebody she can't trust. 

I don't defend his behavior. I'm just not supportive of the premise that a spouse scorned gets to automatically perform "random cavity searches" to establish trust. That's just not healthy. 

I've been cheated on before. I never demanded phone records, texts or any other personal information. The lack of trust was MY RESPONSIBILTY to reconcile and it was my decision to decide if the relationship was worth saving. To date, I have never given a chance. That is the consequence. You cheat, we are done period. I'm not wasting my time on auditing you.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

Sanity said:


> I'm not going to lie to you. Yes most men would likely find it too hard to resist hence the best defense is boundries which your husband violated.
> 
> How's your sex life? How do you treat him? Not that i'm justifying his behavior, just trying to understand the situation better.


That area is excellent.
But your question did make me realize something:
That was a daily thing for us, which was fantastic. But since we've had these issues, it's more like 2-3X week.
I was thinking it was due to the issues.

As far as how I treat him, I feel very insecure, so I think I am probably quite exhausting and irritating to him. 
I think I treat him very well generally, but my lack of trust is a huge problem, and when I feel discouraged, I do things that are pretty bad. (e.g., the snooping thing)


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> Is this okay with you?
> 
> Overall I'm not a big fan of snooping because I think if someone is going to cheat they are going to cheat. My issue with this is he got caught then he shut you out.
> 
> That doesn't look good in my opinion. I believe once you get caught lying you lose your right to privacy.


It's not okay with me. 
I wish we had that system that one TAM member has (can't remember her name!) . where there is complete openness - shared passwords, etc.

Since I totally violated his privacy, though, he feels justified in doing this.
I agree, that it makes him seem more guilty.
But I also know that he is responding to my over-the-top actions. 

It's like a terrible feedback cycle. (I don't trust, I violate his privacy, he gets more secretive, I don't trust more...etc.)
I feel so discouraged typing this, it's a mess.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Sanity said:


> You cheat, we are done period. I'm not wasting my time on auditing you.


But what about the people who choose to reconcile?


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

Sanity said:


> I had that happen to me while married. Had a ex facebook message me and she was recently divorced and overly friendly. I remember her very "fondly" and we had tons of fun but I moved. I respectfully told her that I was married and that it's not right to keep talking. I then blocked her just in case. This is not to say I didn't think of "good old times" in the shower that night but that's where it ended. Down the drain.........


I respect that you blocked her. Also that you're honest about the fact that the memories were 'fond'.

The analogy for me is this: when people are trying to eat healthfully, they should get rid of all the junk food in their house.
Cheetos taste good, it's dumb to pretend they're not tempting. THe strategy should be to never buy them.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

gloriagloria said:


> That area is excellent.
> But your question did make me realize something:
> That was a daily thing for us, which was fantastic. But since we've had these issues, it's more like 2-3X week.
> I was thinking it was due to the issues.
> ...


I'm very sorry for what you are going through but from my own personal experience and other friends who went through cheating spouses, it's just not healthy for you to audit him. You definitely should consider counseling and maybe take some time to reconcile your feelings. I'm not telling you to divorce him but understand that every big fight, every night he comes home late or goes out with his friends, the OW will be on your mind. This is the inevitable and permanent scar left by infidelity. I pray you have healing your in your marriage.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

Sanity said:


> She doesn't have any enforceable "right" to snoop and yes he does has a reasonable expectation of privacy. I never understood why people who are cheated on suddenly get all these "rights" to invade a persons space like a child. All she has to right to is simply ask him to show him his phone and texts and he can say yes or no. From there she needs to decide if she wants to stay married to somebody she can't trust.
> 
> I don't defend his behavior. I'm just not supportive of the premise that a spouse scorned gets to automatically perform "random cavity searches" to establish trust. That's just not healthy.
> 
> I've been cheated on before. I never demanded phone records, texts or any other personal information. The lack of trust was MY RESPONSIBILTY to reconcile and it was my decision to decide if the relationship was worth saving. To date, I have never given a chance. That is the consequence. You cheat, we are done period. I'm not wasting my time on auditing you.


As much as I crave the audit (I seriously treat it like I'm researching for the cure for cancer or something, I'm very focused) , you are right about this.
It'd be demeaning to me if someone insisted on reading all my emails and facebook messages and whatnot.

And the truth is, the audit is ONLY valid IF you find something bad. It is NEVER satisfying to me. 
Not finding something bad just tells me I may have missed something.
Does that make sense?

And I really appreciate your idea that it is my responsibility to figure out if I can come to terms with this incident.

Bottom line is: Can I make it work with someone I don't trust?

There are many compelling reasons to stay with him, which is why I'm conflicted.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> But what about the people who choose to reconcile?


I think this is where I am right now -- trying to make a go of this relationship. 
But with eyes open and a rule in my mind that if there is another similar incident, it's finished.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I see where Sanity is going with this.

If he's going to communicate secretly he's going to find a way. It was your gut that got him caught this time.

Can you trust YOURSELF to catch him if he does it again?


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

Sanity said:


> I'm very sorry for what you are going through but from my own personal experience and other friends who went through cheating spouses, it's just not healthy for you to audit him. You definitely should consider counseling and maybe take some time to reconcile your feelings. I'm not telling you to divorce him but understand that every big fight, every night he comes home late or goes out with his friends, the OW will be on your mind. This is the inevitable and permanent scar left by infidelity. I pray you have healing your in your marriage.


Thank you for this.
I am seeking counseling now. I have an appointment with one, but I know it may take a while to find the right person.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> I see where Sanity is going with this.
> 
> If he's going to communicate secretly he's going to find a way. It was your gut that got him caught this time.
> 
> Can you trust YOURSELF to catch him if he does it again?


Yeah - I totally get it, too. A few messages earlier, I tried to say this, but the 'audit' really only satisfies if you find something bad.
So it really does nothing to alleviate worry.

I do trust myself to catch him.
My partner disputes this, but I believe I have an uncanny 'gut' that has led me to discover many things, some not even to do with relationships.

((He says that I'm paranoid about everything, suspect everything. so the few times I'm right I feel my intuition is validated, but it's really not accurate. 
While I agree with him that I'm paranoid and suspicious, I believe my intuition is often accurate and even strangely precise. 

The day before this particular incident, for example, I had a dream that I checked the email app on his phone. I woke up with a compulsion to do so. 
Weird, but that's what happened.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> But what about the people who choose to reconcile?


My ex MIL found out her husband had an affair for 12 years and even slept with the OW in their marital bed. He cut the affair off after he had open heart surgery and became a born again Christian. Years past by and I guess it faded into history. One day the OW out of nowhere call my ex MIL and told her about the affair and all the lurid details. The OW was dying of ovarian cancer and was looking for money since the ex FIL was paying her bills for years during the affair. Safe to say it was a very tough time for the family and the exMIL was constantly yelling and crying. The old man (he was 78 at the time of the call) was very heartbroken and admitted and begged for forgiveness but for years the exMIL would bring it up when he disagreed with her or fought with her. It was sad to see and he admitted to me that he was to end it all. He passed away two years ago and while I think she forgave him, she still mentioned the OW name from time to time. 

To answer your question, of course I think people can reconcile but understand forgiveness should be part of the process and condition of reconcilation. This means it cannot be brought up as "ammo" even if your trust falters for a moment. I personally am not strong enough or patient enough to rebuild trust after cheating.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Sanity said:


> I personally am not strong enough or patient enough to rebuild trust after cheating.


Me neither.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

Sanity said:


> My ex MIL found out her husband had an affair for 12 years and even slept with the OW in their marital bed. He cut the affair off after he had open heart surgery and became a born again Christian. Years past by and I guess it faded into history. One day the OW out of nowhere call my ex MIL and told her about the affair and all the lurid details. The OW was dying of ovarian cancer and was looking for money since the ex FIL was paying her bills for years during the affair. Safe to say it was a very tough time for the family and the exMIL was constantly yelling and crying. The old man (he was 78 at the time of the call) was very heartbroken and admitted and begged for forgiveness but for years the exMIL would bring it up when he disagreed with her or fought with her. It was sad to see and he admitted to me that he was to end it all. He passed away two years ago and while I think she forgave him, she still mentioned the OW name from time to time.
> 
> To answer your question, of course I think people can reconcile but understand forgiveness should be part of the process and condition of reconcilation. This means it cannot be brought up as "ammo" even if your trust falters for a moment. I personally am not strong enough or patient enough to rebuild trust after cheating.


This story is heart breaking. It makes me feel so sad for both of them.
(I'll admit that I don't feel any sympathy for the OW in this situation. She seems like a selfish b*tch, trying to ruin their marriage TWICE.)
I understand totally why the MiL would bring it up all the time, I am picturing the old man being remorseful.

This story is also instructive, so thank you. And I guess I have yet to see if I can do this.

And I'm the same -- if I knew for sure he had an affair, or even had a one-time sexual encounter, I wouldn't even be on this forum, I'd be busy dating others and would not be conflicted at all about that.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Sanity said:


> I had that happen to me while married.


Happened to me many years ago when I was single and ran into a married ex. She suggested lunch the next day so we could catch up. We did, and nothing inappropriate was said. I figured that was the end of the story, but she called later and asked me to come to her apt the next day. I did, she told me what she wanted and I left. She tried again with another call, and I told her to cut contact. 

I guess my integrity finally kicked in. Going to her place was 100% wrong, but it taught me a good lesson. If you don't want to have to make the tough decision, don't even start down that path.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

MrK said:


> Insight on how to deal with it? No. But I'm a man. And as a man, I am qualified to tell you that he wants to screw her. Of that I have ZERO doubt. Just wanted to let you know that this is a big deal. A HUGE deal.
> 
> Good luck.


Of course he "wants" to screw her on some level, the question is whether he actually intended to and whether he would have done it. Some men are capable of restraint, contrary to popular belief.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

John Lee said:


> Of course he "wants" to screw her on some level, the question is whether he actually intended to and whether he would have done it. Some men are capable of restraint, contrary to popular belief.



I am on the verge of understanding this idea (your first sentence -- how men work and what seems like dissonance to me is really not).

And I really want to believe your second sentence.


Geez, I wish this: I could take a random sampling of men and have all their thoughts and feeling laid bare before me, so I could understand things better.

I bet it'd benefit a lot of guys to have the same thing (but with a random sampling of women)

I guess that's what this forum is doing, though to a smaller degree. This place is great.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

thunderstruck said:


> If you don't want to have to make the tough decision, don't even start down that path.


wisdom.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Sanity said:


> She doesn't have any enforceable "right" to snoop and yes he does has a reasonable expectation of privacy. I never understood why people who are cheated on suddenly get all these "rights" to invade a persons space like a child. All she has to right to is simply ask him to show him his phone and texts and he can say yes or no. From there she needs to decide if she wants to stay married to somebody she can't trust.
> 
> I don't defend his behavior. I'm just not supportive of the premise that a spouse scorned gets to automatically perform "random cavity searches" to establish trust. That's just not healthy.
> 
> I've been cheated on before. I never demanded phone records, texts or any other personal information. The lack of trust was MY RESPONSIBILTY to reconcile and it was my decision to decide if the relationship was worth saving. To date, I have never given a chance. That is the consequence. You cheat, we are done period. I'm not wasting my time on auditing you.


LOL until that last line that post was going to be my vote for worst post ever.

Like I said. Until that last line.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

So how do you propose he restore her trust in him? He lied and withheld and spent time with another woman. His word is not valuable because of it. 

Since you didn't want to remain married it is easy for you to feel this way. But someone who wishes to rebuild would take a different approach. Nobody wan ts to be hypervigilent. It sucks. But to regain a seems of day the husband should be very willing to prove himself with more than promises.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Gloria, to give you more insight, what I did was actually much worse than what your husband did, because I fell into a kind of EA -- I kept trying to create boundaries and tell the person that I didn't like the direction our relationship was going in, but I kept listening to the dinosaur brain when I should have cut off contact. The culmination of this was when I went to her apartment while my wife was out of town -- a BIG breach of trust. But I think in a weird way that going to her apartment and having her come on to me made me stop being in denial about what was going on. I left without so much as touching her. I told my wife shortly after, and I cut off the relationship. I persistently refused to restart anything further with her even though she kept trying. I no longer hear from the woman, and our marriage healed from the damage and is stronger than ever.


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## Kaci (Mar 11, 2013)

:iagree:


Shaggy said:


> Bottom line - he chose to put her above you and to lie to you about it.
> 
> He betrayed your trust.
> 
> ...


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

_He told me some of the things that were in the email that I'd not like (She complained that her husband doesn't find her attractive, so he complimented her physically, for example) He said the black-and-white reading that would make me very upset.
He also referred to one of their romps from back in the day, just a sentence and just playful.
He claims none of this is flirting._

I missed this one from yesterday, but according to what dictionary would this not be flirting??


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## Kaci (Mar 11, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> So he wants to go out on dates with an ex... Platonic ones. Uh huh.


Ask him, since this is a 'platonic' date, would it be ok if you asked one of your old boyfriends out and the four of you can double 'platonic' date.

How cute.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

One of the things I did with my wife to regain trust was, instead of her reading my e-mails, I agreed to tell her whenever the woman tried to contact me, even if it was minor. Obviously this took more of a leap of faith on her part, but I did it. I think it was a better approach, because it let me rise to the moment instead of being treated like a child about it.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Kaci said:


> Ask him, since this is a 'platonic' date, would it be ok if you asked one of your old boyfriends out and the four of you can double 'platonic' date.
> 
> How cute.


Seriously. Exes are poison. Its Russian Roulette. Read Hard to Detachs thread. Far from a perfect relationship but still.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

John Lee said:


> One of the things I did with my wife to regain trust was, instead of her reading my e-mails, I agreed to tell her whenever the woman tried to contact me, even if it was minor. Obviously this took more of a leap of faith on her part, but I did it. I think it was a better approach, because it let me rise to the moment instead of being treated like a child about it.


That's great but since you acted like a selfish child doing what you knew was wrong just shy of the point of reaching the point of no return maybe a little more oversight might have saved your marriage and lot of grief.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

gloriagloria said:


> *After this incident, I had a freak-out where I invaded his privacy and searched his computer room for other evidence. I found nothing, and now it's made him feel that he can't trust me to not go through all his stuff when he's not home.
> He changed his locks, his phone is locked down, he will never be the type to share passwords.*
> 
> So I can't really "Trust, but verify".
> ...


This is BAD BAD BAD!! He did something wrong and now he is putting the blame on YOU because you caught him, and he is further proving guilt by locking everything down! 

May I suggest you go read my story??


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> That's great but since you acted like a selfish child doing what you knew was wrong just shy of the point of reaching the point of no return maybe a little more oversight might have saved your marriage and lot of grief.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Would it? Or would it have made me feel trapped and controlled and perpetuated the unhappiness in the relationship? I don't understand all these superspy impulses -- is your goal to save your relationships or to "catch the bad guy"? In my experience it's easy enough to figure out when someone's cheating. If you find "oversight" necessary (maybe it is sometimes) I think it's better to be open about it -- tell him that in order for you to trust him again you need him to do x y z, whether it's access to his e-mails or whatever. 

I learned my lesson and I don't even strike up the slightest friendships with women since then, and it's been over three years.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Philat said:


> _...so he complimented her physically, for example)
> 
> He also referred to one of their romps from back in the day, just a sentence and just playful.
> He claims none of this is flirting._
> ...


The hubby has it right - it's not flirting. 

It's fishing. Fishing for some tail. 

gloria - ask this moron husband of yours to please stop insulting your intelligence with his BS. "Platonic" lunches where they both giggle about all the ways they used to F**K? Yeah, that's just "playful."


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> So how do you propose he restore her trust in him? He lied and withheld and spent time with another woman. His word is not valuable because of it.
> 
> Since you didn't want to remain married it is easy for you to feel this way. But someone who wishes to rebuild would take a different approach. Nobody wan ts to be hypervigilent. It sucks. But to regain a seems of day the husband should be very willing to prove himself with more than promises.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's the million dollar question -- how does trust get restored? 
And a corrollary question -- Whatever the answer is to that, is the amount of energy and time worth it?


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

John Lee said:


> Gloria, to give you more insight, what I did was actually much worse than what your husband did, because I fell into a kind of EA -- I kept trying to create boundaries and tell the person that I didn't like the direction our relationship was going in, but I kept listening to the dinosaur brain when I should have cut off contact. The culmination of this was when I went to her apartment while my wife was out of town -- a BIG breach of trust. But I think in a weird way that going to her apartment and having her come on to me made me stop being in denial about what was going on. I left without so much as touching her. I told my wife shortly after, and I cut off the relationship. I persistently refused to restart anything further with her even though she kept trying. I no longer hear from the woman, and our marriage healed from the damage and is stronger than ever.


This is encouraging, to know it's possible.
And I was going to ask you what factors do you think helped your marriage to heal, and then I saw you wrote this:



John Lee said:


> One of the things I did with my wife to regain trust was, instead of her reading my e-mails, I agreed to tell her whenever the woman tried to contact me, even if it was minor. Obviously this took more of a leap of faith on her part, but I did it. I think it was a better approach, because it let me rise to the moment instead of being treated like a child about it.


I understand the indignity of showing someone your email.
I'm a very private person.
For example, he likes to know who I'm texting and I feel mildly irritated at having to explain (it's usually someone from my family). 

He says he will do exactly this: Let me know when a female contacts him.
But, as you said, it does require a huge leap of faith on my part. 

A significant difference in my situation and yours, John Lee, is that YOU chose to tell your wife.
I only found out about this because I looked in his phone. He would have never told me about it.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

Kaci said:


> Ask him, since this is a 'platonic' date, would it be ok if you asked one of your old boyfriends out and the four of you can double 'platonic' date.
> 
> How cute.


ha.

Yeah, that's the thing - He openly says that he would NOT be OK with me meeting with any guy alone for a meal.

He does say that he'd not over-react, though. He'd just tell me it wasn't cool with him, he'd make me cancel the lunch, and he'd tell me that I need to never do that again.

He maintains that he wasn't cheating, had no intention to cheat, etc. And that my reaction is one of a person who was cheated on.
He says it was bad, but not as bad as I'm making it.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> This is BAD BAD BAD!! He did something wrong and now he is putting the blame on YOU because you caught him, and he is further proving guilt by locking everything down!
> 
> May I suggest you go read my story??


I get what you're saying- the part about him putting the blame/responsibility on me for my reaction to his breach.

And you're right, that is really bad.


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## gloriagloria (Aug 14, 2013)

John Lee said:


> Would it? Or would it have made me feel trapped and controlled and perpetuated the unhappiness in the relationship? I don't understand all these superspy impulses -- is your goal to save your relationships or to "catch the bad guy"? In my experience it's easy enough to figure out when someone's cheating. If you find "oversight" necessary (maybe it is sometimes) I think it's better to be open about it -- tell him that in order for you to trust him again you need him to do x y z, whether it's access to his e-mails or whatever.
> 
> I learned my lesson and I don't even strike up the slightest friendships with women since then, and it's been over three years.


For me, the superspy impulse is about mitigating fear.

And it's pretty ineffective, unless you find something confirming.

That's solid advice: To figure out exactly what I need to trust again, and be open about it. And if he can't do it, then...

However, I'm not sure if 100% access to all his accounts would be enough. Because I'm not so naive; I know that he can always make another email account. (He already has multiple emails for different functions. I do, too, in fact.)
So I don't know if any amount of oversight would help.
And then our relationship would just be all about oversight.
So depressing.

I think a key for me is *freedom:* 

*I only want to be with a man if he chooses me.*
I don't want to have to monitor his behavior, like he's a wayward teen or something. 

And whether this is realistic or not ((I am actually figuring this out as I type!!!)), *I need to be with a man who truly only wants to be with me.* 
And I'm not hypocritical at all, I would feel the same way about him.

Wow, I think this is a sort of bottom-line basic need for me.
Maybe I'm destined to be single?


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Part of the problem with surveillance even with permission is that you have to do the looking. If they were more forthcoming and openly share and was proactive about sharing with you I think it would go off much longer way toward building trust and security. 

Because you're right. There are a million ways if someone can get around being found out and it's getting easier and easier with the calls for quote privacy online. 

It's supposed to be there to protect good people from evil unfortunately its allowing more people to be evil
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

And the truth is, the audit is ONLY valid IF you find something bad. It is NEVER satisfying to me. 

,
........
I don't think it can be satisfying either way. Is it not fun not trusting someone but it's even worse when you do find something. It confirms that you weren't trusting them for a reason. Especially in this case where he was meeting with another woman without your knowledge. That's not the same thing as buying on a and expensive toy without telling your spouse. 
.....
Not finding something bad just tells me I may have missed something.
Does that make sense?
.....

It does make sense but it only makes sense if you are absolutely certain that he couldn't be trusted from the get-go

......

And I really appreciate your idea that it is my responsibility to figure out if I can come to terms with this incident.

Bottom line is: Can I make it work with someone I don't trust?

There are many compelling reasons to stay with him, which is why I'm conflicted

.....

I think that someone who is built like you and is also good at research and following their own tuition will not be able to be happy in a relationship where they don't trust .
.
Thinking out loud I wonder how much is this is ego vs self protection I'm a lot like you in that I am great at research and I'm very observant and I feel really notice things when they don't make sense or they are incongruous with something its very very difficult to lie to me long term. I catch the smallest things. 

So when you find something you get blamed for looking but you were looking because there wasn't something there to suggest that you should pay attention. My husband and I had a row about that around the first of the year. But this wasn't about to email it was about something else. 

I'm sure it isn't fun to live with someone who can pick up on such small details. I remember one of my daughters saying that I must have cameras in the house. The youngest has simply learned it isn't worth lying to me but for some reason adults get really angry when you catch them lying. I know they often feel ashamed but perhaps responding in a different way would make people a little less paranoid. .
.
Now in your case it was pretty cut and dry. He knew he was doing something wrong and he hid it. .in other cases I'm wondering if the the response of becoming more secretive is due to the fact it a person might not actually know what's right or wrong. They want to classify it as you being paranoid even if you haven't reacted to nothing. So they justify hiding because they don't want you to freak out on something that's supposed to be meaningless. But does that really mean that they don't know the difference between right and wrong or does that mean that they are acting in a way that's passively asserting their independence. They say people that have nothing to hide don't get upset about opening up the emails and comforting the other person and reassuring them. But I think that has a lot to do with the quality of the relationship before the incident. 

I so totally know how you feel. Intuition and observation can be a real curse of you aren't a detective getting paid for catching subtle things. 

Has your husband lied much in the past? I don't mean little things so much, though anyone who does a lot of that also lies about big things. I'm talking about dumb things now and then, when he is acting like a boy not wanting to tell you he bought a new something floor hits going even though he has two already... but this one has a new feature that you both know he will never use. To mfr that is silly but would make me laugh. 

If he is generally honest then he needs to answer why this time was different without blaming you for it. 

Has he cut all communication with this woman? If so, how willing was he to do it? 

I didn't like hearing that most men well take flirting too far at some point just because they rang to know if they could get into someone's pants. Men hate when we generalise but them tell is things like this. How many of those dumb asses end up sleeping with the person they were just playing a game with? 

I don't find it harmless to go up against a risk like this. Logically if you were do drawn by the possibility that you could get laid your duck is clearly running the show. When men fail to realize they are vulnerable and take these risks with their lives and their marriage if tells you just how strongly their ducks were calling the shots 

Therein lies the problem with what your husband did. If he were honest about that it would hurt like heck to hear it. But knowing he is not being honest about it feeds the worry. 

Ask him if he would pass a lie detector test with that question and ask him if he would be willing to pony up $500 to give you that piece of mind. 

He has to believe you would follow through. 

If he admitted something like this and would look at himself and his weakness honestly and work to affair proof your marriage would you feel better? 

My husband has been dishonest a lot about some big things. I know if he did something like this it would be the end. But that is because the history is so bad. 

If your husband has been generally honest then maybe he would be willing to go that extra mile to help you recover from what in my opinion was a very large breech of trust.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

gloriagloria said:


> And whether this is realistic or not ((I am actually figuring this out as I type!!!)), *I need to be with a man who truly only wants to be with me.*
> And I'm not hypocritical at all, I would feel the same way about him.
> 
> Wow, I think this is a sort of bottom-line basic need for me.
> Maybe I'm destined to be single?


No, I think this is a perfectly right and healthy thing to want in a relationship. A man should be truly COMMITTED to only BEING with you, even if he has occasional impulses to be with someone else.


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## Boricha (Sep 29, 2013)

How long have you been married to him? Was your husband married before? How old are you guys?

It was an ego feed for him. Definitely not appropriate. He seems very sociable/flirty as he has many "women" friends.

It's impossible to know what was going through his head, especially after he deleted the email.

But if you want to save this marriage, and make it a happy one, you have to learn to let things go. Choose your battles. Do this for you. If you break up, what will happen with your future relationships? Do you want to keep living your life obsessing? Go to IC if it will help you.

You devalue yourself in his eyes when you act this way. Do not show your insecurity. Personally, unless there is evidence of a full blown affair, I would not let it waste my time.

If he does end up being a cheating spouse, deal with it then. You are acting like he already met her and had the affair.

Remember, he did choose you for a wife. It sounds like there is still love here. Life is too short. Make the best of your marriage.


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