# MALE believer needs advice....



## Trying2getitRIGHT

My wife is about 6-7 weeks pregnant with our 3rd child. We are a blended family, and this makes our 8th in total. My wife has increasingly gotten more distant from me with each child. Ocassionally she will be close for about a week, then drops off the radar. She is a stay at home wife, mother. We have a facebook together, shes on it 24/7. Our sex life at times hits 3 times a week but mostly 1 time a week. She has been molested as a child, and seems depressed quite a bit. I honestly feel like im just a paycheck and ocassionally here for her when she wants something. She seems perfectly content loving the children and caring for them and just soaking up those relationships and relegating me to the trash heap. She can be really loving and sweet when those weeks come of sunshine, but its mostly cloudy. I used to not take care of myself, got up to 320 lbs, i lost 80 lbs to try and keep up on myself. She is pretty heavy and its like my losing weight hasnt made a difference. I miss my wifes delight in us, im wondering if the molestation thing will just make her colder the older she gets? She used to be madly in love with me, now im the farm cat.....Pregnancy has seemed to make things worse. Any help? Thanks!


----------



## minimalME

It's really important in marriage to have things that bond the two of you.

You were together before the children, and hopefully, you'll be together after they've grown and left.

Do you use instagram? Have you ever seen the posts of couples who work out together and make staying healthy a goal that they share? Maybe you could do that? It would include both diet and exercise.

Also, the first thing I thought of was that, if it were me, I'd start dating her again. At least once a week. 

If at all possible, please do try to get out of the mindset that you're a paycheck. It creates this battle between the sexes where men feel used for money and women feel used for sex. Both are legitimate needs when in balance.

Lastly, have you ever heard of Alain de Botton? His thoughts on love and sex are quite profound. He has lots of videos on youtube, if you're interested.


----------



## sokillme

Trying2getitRIGHT said:


> My wife is about 6-7 weeks pregnant with our 3rd child. We are a blended family, and this makes our 8th in total. My wife has increasingly gotten more distant from me with each child. Ocassionally she will be close for about a week, then drops off the radar. She is a stay at home wife, mother. We have a facebook together, shes on it 24/7. Our sex life at times hits 3 times a week but mostly 1 time a week. She has been molested as a child, and seems depressed quite a bit. I honestly feel like im just a paycheck and ocassionally here for her when she wants something. She seems perfectly content loving the children and caring for them and just soaking up those relationships and relegating me to the trash heap. She can be really loving and sweet when those weeks come of sunshine, but its mostly cloudy. I used to not take care of myself, got up to 320 lbs, i lost 80 lbs to try and keep up on myself. She is pretty heavy and its like my losing weight hasnt made a difference. I miss my wifes delight in us, im wondering if the molestation thing will just make her colder the older she gets? She used to be madly in love with me, now im the farm cat.....Pregnancy has seemed to make things worse. Any help? Thanks!


Have you talked to your wife? Marriage counseling seems a must. 8 children is pretty hard, you don't believe in birth control?


----------



## Trying2getitRIGHT

No birth control, yes counseling with an elder. He says she doesnt see her errors, defensive and doesnt take constructive criticism. Says its my job to lovingly lead her. I used to orbit her and grovel to keep her happy and from blowing up. Now I just do best job i can and if its not enough thats not my problem. I used to worship her, lived to make her happy, all it did was destroyed me and she was hateful. I started taking care of me more, standing my ground on non negotiables, not saying sorry for everything that was not my fault. Our two together are obsessed with her, and it seems she feeds off of it. They can play unless they are in her lap 4 yr old and 2 yr old. She seems to have very little interest in me other than protection, providing and taking her shopping and out to dinner. Im starting to feel like pulling away and just doing my thing. Its like having a sister more than a wife.


----------



## Trying2getitRIGHT

I more than “date” my wife. I take her to starbucks daily, i take her out to dinner atleast once a week, sometimes 2 or 3. I ocassionally write her little letters, pick me up notes. I ocassionally pick her up favorite candy on way home, tell her how much i appreciate her atlest a couple times a week. I pit children to bed, do bathtime, read scripture and pray with children. These were things that she used to appreciate. In last year she might have told me 2 times how much she loves me and appreciates me. I own my own business and get up with children every morning so she can get an extra 2-3 hours of sleep. She is quite frankly spoiled rotten.


----------



## minimalME

Trying2getitRIGHT said:


> I more than “date” my wife. I take her to starbucks daily, i take her out to dinner atleast once a week, sometimes 2 or 3. I ocassionally write her little letters, pick me up notes. I ocassionally pick her up favorite candy on way home, tell her how much i appreciate her atlest a couple times a week. I pit children to bed, do bathtime, read scripture and pray with children. These were things that she used to appreciate. In last year she might have told me 2 times how much she loves me and appreciates me. I own my own business and get up with children every morning so she can get an extra 2-3 hours of sleep. She is quite frankly spoiled rotten.


Then perhaps you're doing too much? Maybe she feels smothered?


----------



## Trying2getitRIGHT

So do less, become less available?


----------



## Diana7

If I had 8 children I wouldn't the time or the energy for anything else either. Its not unbiblical to prayerfully limit your family. 8 children is madness. 
I suggest that you stop having any more and get some good marriage counselling. Elders are often not trained to be marriage counsellors or any sort of counsellors. You need to learn how to communicate more effectively.
Are you both divorced? How long have you been married?


----------



## minimalME

Trying2getitRIGHT said:


> So do less, become less available?


The guys on the forum would probably have more practical suggestions about doing less.

In my marriage, I often felt smothered and in competition with my ex-husband. He was willing to help with just about everything, and although I did appreciate it, I ended up feeling like I was living with another woman.

Only speaking for myself, traditionally roles would've been nice.


----------



## Trying2getitRIGHT

Scripture nowhere says academic training is necessary for counsel, only those who have the Set Apart Spirit. We are never commanded in scripture to prevent pregnancy. Just an FYI. Im a seminary trained graduate, former pastor, and none of that matters.


----------



## Diana7

Trying2getitRIGHT said:


> Scripture nowhere says academic training is necessary for counsel, only those who have the Set Apart Spirit. We are never commanded in scripture to prevent pregnancy. Just an FYI. Im a seminary trained graduate, former pastor, and none of that matters.


Scripture doesn't talk about counselling as we know it at all actually. Nor does it forbid prayerfully limiting the number of children you have. I know a Christian lady who is a highly trained and experienced marriage counsellor. She says that marriage counselling is like no other and needs special skills. I Agree with her, few church leaders have what is needed. 
Are you both divorced? How long have you been married?


----------



## Trying2getitRIGHT

We are both previously divorced, my ex left me for a woman, her ex cheated on her. Scripture says “wise counsel” and as a believer we are part of a kingdom of priests led by the counselor “set apart spirit” and I believe we are so far removed from scripture in the body its unbelievable. Academia is a joke, most of what “christian counseling” promotes is psycho bable mixed with scripture. Men are taught to “make momma happy”. Many women think they want control and headship, When they gain headship in a marriage, they are miserable because the man ceases to be a man, hes a pushover. Nothing respectable about that or physically attractive. The “church” has become feminized, and Ive been through that. Male and female He created them. When a man ceases to be a man hes no longer attractive. We live in such a narcissistic world that marriage is very difficult. My wife says shes a believer but i dont see much fruit.


----------



## minimalME

Trying2getitRIGHT said:


> We live in such a narcissistic world that marriage is very difficult.


I SO agree with this!!!

In early December, I stopped participating in online dating. Consistently, I was treated as though the site was an escort service, with the main question being - 'How long are you going to make me wait for sex?' The self-centeredness was shocking, and it became dehumanizing. 

I would love to be remarried, but I just don't see that happening, and it makes me very sad.


----------



## MidnightBlue

Chances are good that your wife is exhausted, overwhelmed, depressed, and her hormones are out of whack. She’s overweight, has 7 children and is pregnant with #8, is a stay at home mom, and was molested. She probably feels terrible physically, mentally, and emotionally. She loves her family, you included, but probably feels a little like the world has dealt her a bad hand. 

People spend their time on social media to see how their lives measure up against those of others. It’s a window into the personal lives of other people. Unfortunately, most people put their best face forward on social media and it’s easy to think that other people have it so much better. Your wife is spending her time looking at the shiny façades of other people and likely feeling the sinking feeling of not measuring up or feeling cheated. 

I’m not suggesting that your wife is not to blame, quite the contrary. She is the only one who can make the improvements she needs. 

If she’s depressed, she may blame you, at least in part, for her sadness and anger. In her despondency, she may truly believe you are at fault. Whatever you do, don’t fall into the trap of feeling responsible for her happiness. 

Your wife needs counseling to deal with the molestation she suffered. She needs to take care of her physical health now and have her hormones checked after giving birth. 

Please reconsider your stance on birth control. If your wife is depressed and her hormones are out of balance, the pregnancies, the post natal period, and general fatigue are hell on her.


----------



## Uptown

> I believe there are some personality issues there. [3/13/17]


Trying, I suspect you are correct. You are describing unstable behavior, most of which is not caused by a personality issue. Rather, most emotional instability seen in the general population is a temporary problem that lasts for only a year or two -- because the two most common causes are a strong hormone change and drug abuse. However, you apparently are not talking about a _temporary_ instability but, rather, a persistent _lifetime_ instability that -- as you suspect -- likely started in your W's very troubled childhood years.

The two common causes of lifetime instability are BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) and bipolar disorder. Significantly, you do not seem to be describing a pattern of bipolar symptoms (if you're interested, see my explanation at 12 BPD/Bipolar Differences). 

I therefore suggest you consider whether BPD traits may apply. I mention them because many behaviors you describe -- i.e., anger issues, controlling actions, lack of impulse control, black-white thinking, low self esteem, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between Jekyll (loving you) and Hyde (devaluing you) -- are classic warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting your exGF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it. Below, I respond to your comments, nearly all of which are taken from your 3/13/17 posts.



> she plays games with me....Hot and Cold games. She will be super sweet and physically touchy, and then retreat.


This repeating cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back is one of the hallmarks of a BPDer relationship. One reason it occurs is the BPDer's heavy reliance on _"black-white thinking."_ Like a young child, a BPDer is too emotionally immature to be able to handle strong conflicting feelings (e.g., love and hate). A BPDer therefore has great difficulty tolerating ambiguities, uncertainties, and the other gray areas of close interpersonal relationships. 

Her subconscious solves this problem by placing the strong conflicting feeling far out of reach of her conscious mind. In that way, way she has to deal with only one strong feeling at a time. The result is that a woman who loves you is suddenly capable of hating you or devaluing you. If this behavior seems strange, remember that you will saw it many times a day in the behavior of your young children. A young girl, for example, will adore Daddy when he is bringing out the toys but will immediately flip to hating Daddy when he takes one away.

Like young children, a BPDer will categorize everyone close to her as "all good" (i.e., "white" or "with me") or "all bad" (i.e., "black" or "against me"). And she will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just ten seconds -- based solely on a minor comment or action. This B-W thinking also will be evident in the frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "You NEVER..." and "You ALWAYS...." Because a BPDer's close friends eventually will be "split black," it is unusual for a BPDer to have really close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away).

A second reason the push/pull cycle exists is that a BPDer has two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. As you draw close to a BPDer, you will start triggering her engulfment fear. Yet, as you back away, you will start triggering her abandonment fear. 



> If i'm too close i'm smothering, if I'm not all over her i'm distant.


If your W is a BPDer (i.e., is on the upper third of the BPD spectrum), this no-win situation is impossible to avoid. It occurs because a BPDer's two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) lie at the opposite ends of the _very same_ spectrum. This means that it is impossible to back away from triggering one of her fears without starting to trigger the other fear.

As you draw close to assure her of your love, for example, you will trigger a BPDer's engulfment fear because, although BPDers crave intimacy, they cannot tolerate it for very long. Due to a BPDer's fragile, weak sense of self identity, she will quickly feel like you're trying to control her -- and she will get the scary feeling of being suffocated or engulfed. She therefore will create a fight -- over absolutely nothing -- to push you away.

Yet, as you back away to give her breathing space, you unavoidably will start triggering her abandonment fear. Hence, if your W is a BPDer, you are always in a lose/lose situation. And, sadly, there is no midpoints solution (between "too close" and "too far away") where you can safely stand to avoid triggering the two fears. I know because I foolishly spent 15 years searching for that Goldilocks position, which simply does not exist. 



> I used to... hover and orbit her trying to make her happy, only to find out I could NEVER satisfy her.


If she is a BPDer, she has such a terrible feeling of emptiness that NOTHING is likely to make her happy for more than a few days. With my BPDer exW, for example, a very expensive gift usually would produce happiness for a few days -- or a week if it cost me several thousand dollars. Then she was right back to "What have you done for me lately?" A BPDer is a bottomless pit of need. Hence, trying to make her "happy" is as pointless as trying to fill up the Grand Canyon with a squirt gun.

Because a BPDer is emotionally unstable, it is impossible to build up a store of good will that you can later draw on during the hard days. A BPDer's perception of your intentions is dictated by the intense feeling she is experiencing at this very moment. The result is that your attempts to build up a lasting store of good will and appreciation (for your many sacrifices) is as futile as trying to build a lasting sandcastle beside the sea. It will be washed away by the next tide of intense feelings flooding her mind.



> It's like she keeps me in a state of suspense.


This "state of suspense" is often called "walking on eggshells," which is what you do to try to avoid triggering her anger. This is why the best-selling BPD book (targeted to the abused spouses) is titled, _Stop Walking on Eggshells_. 



> She uses her anger and distance in past to get me to grovel. [3/16/17]


If your W is a BPDer, any trivial comment or action -- no matter how minor -- has the potential to trigger her outburts. The reason is that a BPDer has been carrying enormous anger and hurt deep inside since early childhood. You therefore don't have to do or say a thing to CREATE the anger. You only have to do some minor thing that TRIGGERS a sudden release of anger that is always there below the surface. This is why a BPDer can burst into a hissy fit in only a few seconds. And this is why one of the 9 defining symptoms for BPD is _"Inappropriate, intense anger or problems controlling anger."_



> When my wife and I first met and started dating, she was very needy and extremely close and affectionate. She spoke very sweet to me, and was so good to me.


If she is a BPDer, it is highly unlikely that you would have seen her BPD symptoms during the courtship period. Her infatuation over you would have convinced her that you're the nearly perfect guy who has arrived to rescue her from unhappiness. In that way, the infatuation would have held her two fears at bay until it started to evaporate, which usually occurs about 4 to 6 months into the R/S. This is why, in BPDer relationships, it is common for sex and affection to be very intense and passionate throughout the courtship period -- and then go off a cliff following the wedding, at which time the two fears have returned.



> She started getting angry easy, emotional and would throw the _"I'm leaving you"_ card a lot.


If she is a BPDer, that is not surprising. Rather, what is surprising is that she did not actually leave several times. As noted above, BPDer relationships are notorious for the repeated cycle of push-away and pull-back. A BPDfamily survey of about 460 such relationships found that nearly a fourth (23%) went through 10 or more complete breakup/makeup cycles BEFORE finally ending for good. About 40% of the BPDer relationships experienced at least six breakup/makeup cycles before eventually ending. And 73% had three or more breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. See "Results" at BPDfamily Breakup/Makeup Poll. 



> She gets depressed.


If she suffers from strong traits of BPD, depression is to be expected. A recent American survey found that 80% of full-blown BPDers suffer from a co-occurring mood disorder such as depression or bipolar.



> She is all about the kids. She wants to do and do and do for the kids, but not for me.... She has replaced me with our kids.


It is common for high functioning BPDers to treat their young children quite well, showing love and affection. A young child does not pose a threat to the BPDer's fear of abandonment or her fear of engulfment. That typically changes, however, when the child gets old enough to start thinking for himself and start challenging authority.



> She comes from a rough upbringing. Her real dad was in and out of prison, and her step dad tried to touch her.... She was molested by stepdad growing up.... so she was very controlling, and manipulative. [4/26/17]


Most abused children do not develop strong BPD traits. Such abuse, however, greatly raises the risk that they will do so. A recent large-scale American study found that 70% of full-blown BPDers report that they had been abused or abandoned in childhood.



> MALE believer needs advice.


If your W suffers from strong traits of BPD, there is no way for you to fix it. Indeed, a team of psychologists cannot fix it. Rather, the patient herself must be strongly motivated to fix herself. I therefore suggest that, if you are still reluctant to divorce her, you consult with a psychologist -- for a visit or two _all by yourself_ -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is that you and your children are dealing with. 

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits them at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper third of the BPD spectrum). 

Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as verbal abuse, controlling behavior, icy withdrawal, and rapid flips between loving you and devaluing you.

Of course, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Although strong BPD symptoms are easy to spot, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for a stroke or heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid staying in a toxic marriage and avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her.

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_ to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings many bells and raises questions, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Trying.


----------



## Diana7

minimalME said:


> I SO agree with this!!!
> 
> In early December, I stopped participating in online dating. Consistently, I was treated as though the site was an escort service, with the main question being - 'How long are you going to make me wait for sex?' The self-centeredness was shocking, and it became dehumanizing.
> 
> I would love to be remarried, but I just don't see that happening, and it makes me very sad.



Be choosey about what sites you go on. I know many people who met lovely people on line. Make sure they are not sites such as tinder, not free sites and not international sites.


----------



## Satya

If she's on FB 24/7, then how can she be raising the kids? Was that an exaggeration on your part?

If what you meant was that she's on there a large portion of time, then she probably doesn't like raising kids as much as you think and wants alone time. Social media is a great way to become more depressed and disillusioned, especially if you browse to unhealthy quantities.

You can try to encourage her to cut down the FB and do something else more wholesome instead. Or you can encourage her to get out of the house more and get a nanny.

If she's overweight and pregnant, she's already a high risk pregnancy. She should be watching her health.

Without knowing her side I don't want to leap to conclusions, but if you want there to be any change it'll likely have to begin with you.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Trying2getitRIGHT said:


> No birth control, yes counseling with an elder. He says she doesnt see her errors, defensive and doesnt take constructive criticism. Says its my job to lovingly lead her.


Please see a marriage counselor.


----------



## Thor

Trying2getitRIGHT said:


> She has been molested as a child, and seems depressed quite a bit. I honestly feel like im just a paycheck and ocassionally here for her when she wants something.
> 
> I miss my wifes delight in us, im wondering if the molestation thing will just make her colder the older she gets? She used to be madly in love with me, now im the farm cat.....Pregnancy has seemed to make things worse. Any help? Thanks!


CSA causes lifelong psych issues. She needs good qualified trauma therapy. Without it, things will never get better. With it, she has a chance of overcoming much of it. The older she gets, the less likely she is to change.

What you describe in your marriage and her behavior is not unusual. She learned a very dysfunctional map in her head what sexuality is, what men are, what her place in a marriage is, etc. You are a "Secondary Survivor" of child sex abuse. Look it up. You may want to seek some therapy for yourself. Her abuse is being passed on to you through her, unintentionally yet it is.

My xw is a CSA survivor. Up until the marriage she was the perfect girlfriend. After marriage she was a great partner except the sex dropped off precipitously. But once she got pregnant I became Enemy #1. Everything was the kids. And it was really over the top in some ways, like at Christmas or birthdays, the kids being lavished upon beyond our means. It was an overcompensation on her part.

The point is that all of these things are related to what she learned starting as a child. Your W learned a very dysfunctional belief system around sex. She learned a dysfunctional belief system about adults and children, and of parenting. Your W's entire life has taught her or been living out what she has mapped in her brain. She will see nothing wrong with the way she is towards you or prioritizing the kids over you.

You can try to expand her understandings of some things, and it will likely take MC and IC to do so. Books or conversations are not likely to make any inroads at all. Unfortunately she will first have to know in her heart that something is wrong and that she needs to make a strong effort to work on herself and on the marriage. This is where CSA survivors frequently get stuck, and nothing substantive improves in the marriage. She may make short term changes, but nothing real or permanent.


----------

