# Why is love like this??



## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

I just recently posted on someone else's thread about the life and death of a love story- how it starts of in a blaze of hormone-addled, chemically-altered paradise, but as with any drug, you need more and more romance to keep the good feelings going and eventually, there's nowhere to go but down because everyday life can't be more romantic than your honeymoon.

I was invited to an acquaintance's engagement party, and of course I'm going. Mr. Suaveterre is too. I was gushing over how romantic and in-love the happy couple must be, recalling that we were once like that... and I asked him, "Do you still consider yourself a hopeless romantic?" and he said, "Yeah, sometimes." 

I realized that he was right. Our love does only feel good _sometimes_ nowadays. For a month, I had put everything I had into planning a romantic day for us together, but the day before the big event, my dress got ruined, the vacuum broke, and I took sick. Now, instead of a romantic dinner and sensual bubble baths, we're trying to fix a vacuum, get renters' insurance, and pay to dry clean a satin gown, and I can't even cuddle him for comfort because I need him to keep away from me if he is to stay well.

I _know_ how the chemicals in our brain guarantee that love can only last a while. Biologically and scientifically, I know _why_. 

But here I am, sad and upset and asking, why, why, _why_ can't love last forever???

A lot of people say married love has to be true love- even with the inevitable slow death of passionate romance- because it leads into a deeper sort of affection. Then they will usually tell a story about some terrible time they or their mate went through and survived _together_. I'm sorry, but as touching as it is, I just don't think the self-sacrificial kind of love that you have for someone when they're 90 years old and you're cleaning their bedpan is _real love_. That's called duty, or obligation, or I've-been-married-to-myrtle-for-65-years-and-I-can't-just-leave-her-like-this. That kind of devotion is saintly, it's noble, it's kind, it's honorable and worthy and a whole lot of other adjectives. 

It's beautiful, and something I wouldn't mind having, but it's not _true romantic love_. And it's not the same. Why on earth can't romantic love last forever? 

So many people break each other's hearts and lives and psyches because the person who provided for them- or for whom they provided- just wasn't good enough in comparison to someone new, for whom they could still feel passionate infatuation. I do not believe that anyone's love or personal happiness or romantic fulfillment is worth destroying another person's life over. But surely human society could have come up with SOMEthing to fix this!! To be able to have all the infatuation and romantic desires one could ever want, and also stability, and not destroy anybody's life in the acquisition of either!! Why is our current paradigm- that either we remain unsatisfied when the hormones fade or we go look for someone else and MURDER our spouse's heart- the best thing we as a species could come up with?! Just, why???


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> Why is our current paradigm- that either we remain unsatisfied when the hormones fade or we go look for someone else and MURDER our spouse's heart- the best thing we as a species could come up with?! Just, why???


I think you are defining lust, not love, in your opening post. I think that's part of the misunderstanding. Unbridled by rules, law, morals, strong character, or religious beliefs, we as humans will always want more, new, better, etc. There is no end to it until we die. Even then, there are those who would freeze their bodies for revival at a future time when they can be healed and continue this mortal life. It must be a wonderful life for those folks. I have yet to experience that.

Maybe that is part of the issue? It's all tangible reality that we seek. This could be a long discussion. That's all I want to say.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

It is a drug. Why do people take drugs? To escape some sort of misery. Which explains why a lot of depressed, unhappy, lonely people get into relationships. They want to escape. Co-dependency sets in a short while after. However, that escape is only temporary; honeymoon turns yucky-moon.

Listen, LOVE IS NOT A FEELING. One feels infatuation, affection, sexual excitement and attraction, comfort, and euphoria but one never feels love. A lot of relationships die because of this. There wasn't love just a really nice feeling that made you look at your partner in unreal ways. They look like an angel in the beginning. Then they are brought back down to earth as the humans they are.

That’s why the bible says love your enemy. Isn’t your enemy someone you don’t like? So why would it tell you to like someone you don’t like? It isn’t telling you that. You can love someone without liking them. That is how all-encompassing love is. I might have legitimate reasons not to like you but I can still treat you humanely, with some compassion, as another member of the human race.

I don’t want to put bible stuff in your thread because I don’t know where you lean but 1 Corinthians 13 is probably the best piece of writing I’ve ever read on love.

So, a better question for you to ask, OP, is *Why is infatuation like this?*


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I'm definitely still on the ''high'' with my engagement. I'm ''in love'' but do love my fiance, at the same time. I still think of him constantly when we're not together, and he says that he does the same. Constantly, in a good way lol The nervous feelings before he comes over to pick me up to go somewhere are all still there, and it's amazing to have these feelings. But, my parents tell me that love is deeper than just feelings...that it lasts through good and bad times. Right now, all we have had are good times, and I wonder...will we weather the bad times? I hope so. I want to, and so does he...and I want to take my vows seriously. 

To me, that's the difference between love and being ''in love.'' Love will be everlasting, and you will choose to weather the tough times because of it. Love is a choice, and one that I make every day when I wake up, and will continue to make once we're married.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

@EunuchMonk- Very well, infatuation. Does it matter what we call it? Love, infatuation, it matters not. Both are words people use to describe romantic feelings and those feelings die. Frankly, I'd rather not mince words. I'm disillusioned and I could cry I'm so disappointed. My question remains the same. Why in the name of everything pure must romantic feelings die?? It's cruel.
@*Deidre*- Oh god, I remember when I was 17 and those were, almost verbatim, the words I said. Mark me, there will come a day when you realize it's HARD to make that choice, that it SUCKS to make that choice, and that you haven't gotten what you were promised by your husband and by society and by Shakespeare and Bronte. One day, it'll be over. The romance will be over and you will have to resort to reviving it unnaturally, like you're Frankenstein or something. Consciously, I know I'm better off for having gotten married, so don't let that sad truth of human emotion discourage you, but... I wish the "honeymoon" didn't end and I think it is a cruel, sick joke that it ends at all.

I mean, long-married couples don't go out on dates because they feel like they'll die of lovesickness if they can't see each other. They go on dates because they're desperate to revive that spark, to _feel_ something again. It's just sad. I had thrown myself into the pursuit of that romance, to jolt myself into feeling in love again and it worked, and I was so excited to plan out our day, but then the vacuum broke and I fell sick and instead of going on our date we have to deal with the mundane, AGAIN. I'm crying, I'm literally crying. This isn't what I wanted.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

@EllaSuaveterre I didn’t write it just to mince words. I’m saying you want something akin to a drug high to last! See the foolishness of that. Again, it is people who aren’t happy with themselves that want such things. I, personally, am on a constant high with occassional interruptions, and I am not even in love. You can have that too but you have to stop chasing phantoms.


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> I just recently posted on someone else's thread about the life and death of a love story- how it starts of in a blaze of hormone-addled, chemically-altered paradise, but as with any drug, you need more and more romance to keep the good feelings going and eventually, there's nowhere to go but down because everyday life can't be more romantic than your honeymoon.
> This is a total misconception! Everyday life CAN BE as or even more romantic than the honeymoon, if you WANT IT TO BE! Love and romance are like piano playing in that, once you reach a certain level of proficiency, you have to CONTINUE to practice to either stay at that level or practice a little more to go to higher levels BUT, if you *STOP* practicing, as do most "romantics", your piano playing skills go down and down until you are no longer able to play at all or, as in a relationship, the whole thing simply DIES because one or both partners FAILED to go on practicing the loving and respectful things that they started off with. Your very WRONG assumptions that "everyday life can't be more romantic than the honeymoon." is completely FALSE and anyone who has gone on PRACTICING romantic skills and methods (just like piano playing) knows that its NOT TRUE!
> 
> I was invited to an acquaintance's engagement party, and of course I'm going. Mr. Suaveterre is too. I was gushing over how romantic and in-love the happy couple must be, recalling that we were once like that... and I asked him, "Do you still consider yourself a hopeless romantic?" and he said, "Yeah, sometimes."
> ...


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

EunuchMonk said:


> @EllaSuaveterre I didn?t write it just to mince words. I?m saying you want something akin to a drug high to last! See the foolishness of that. Again, it is people who aren?t happy with themselves that want such things. I, personally, am on a constant high with occassional interruptions, and I am not even in love. You can have that too but you have to stop chasing phantoms.


I am well aware that infatuation is very much like a drug high. I see the futility of it, but the knowledge does not stop me from wanting it still. I am somewhat unhappy with myself, but much more so, I am unhappy with the human condition. I always have been, ever since I was very young. Why must we struggle so for such little reward? Congratulations on your constant high. Whatever it is, I have probably tried it before, especially if it's of a spiritual nature.


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

I just *LOVE* your honest and deep post...........


*Deidre* said:


> I'm definitely still on the ''high'' with my engagement. Now, can you stay up there? Do you KNOW HOW to keep that "high" when things get "low"? I'm ''in love'' but do love my fiance, at the same time. I still think of him constantly when we're not together, and he says that he does the same. Constantly, in a good way lol ..and CONSTANTLY will have to be the constant factor to keep this love and happiness alive and well when things turn sour as they just might later on.The nervous feelings before he comes over to pick me up to go somewhere are all still there, and it's amazing to have these feelings. But, my parents tell me that love is deeper than just feelings...that it lasts through good and bad times. Right now, all we have had are good times, and I wonder...will we weather the bad times? I hope so. I want to, and so does he...and I want to take my vows seriously. All of this is quite possible if BOTH of you study up on a few very powerful and easy relationship skills such as: 100% honesty, respect, friendship and LOVE done *ALL OF THE TIME* and not just on special occasions. Google: relationship skills to see more about this.
> 
> To me, that's the difference between love and being ''in love.'' Love will be everlasting, and you will choose to weather the tough times because of it. Love is a choice, and one that I make every day when I wake up, and will continue to make once we're married. Now that is POWERFUL!! If both of you can CHOSE LOVE as often or consistently as possible and go back to it if and when UNLOVING appears in the union, your relationship can and will be Heaven on Earth! :laugh:


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

EunuchMonk said:


> @EllaSuaveterre I didn’t write it just to mince words. I’m saying you want something akin to a drug high to last! See the foolishness of that. Again, it is people who aren’t happy with themselves that want such things. I, personally, am on a constant high with occassional interruptions, and I am not even in love. You can have that too but you have to stop chasing phantoms.


Loving feelings are akin to a drug high.

Fair enough.

Feelings, all of them actually, are a drug high.



If you like yourself constantly(which cannot be the correct word here because you then post) with an occasional interruption, then you are almost constantly on a drug induced high. 

If you are able to be nearly constantly high with feelings about yourself due to some actions from yourself and/or others, you are also able to be almost constantly in love due to some actions from yourself and/or others. 

Chemical high?

Fair enough.

Can it be maintained most of the time? Well, if you like yourself as much and often as you posted, then yes.

This is where you have to be careful. Obsession is easily confused with love. So is codependence. Two sides of the same wooden nickel. 

Love chemicals caused by the realization of regular actions of loving kindness toward ourselves or another and/or their real actions of loving kindness toward us seem to follow in line with your assertions about liking yourself. 

If that is true, then we can love each other for life. Maybe I should say, we can elicit a chemical response in each other that is akin to a drug induced high for life? 

It takes some resolve, understanding and desire for love in our lives. It takes morals, good character, following laws, or religious beliefs, among many other things we learn along the road to lifelong love of our spouse. Or, you may want to call it a chemical response to positive actions in our lives. 

When we find the right person, those actions that cause us to feel those chemicals become easier to perform and find anew. They become more than a need or an obsession. They become a deep desire that when not allowed to be performed on a regular basis, or received on a regular basis, have been proven to reduce lifespans. 

Is there love? 

If you believe in the chemicals or want to call it by the words 'in love' or some other emotion inducing/chemical producing words, I think that's fair.

If you want to say none of us are capable of inducing these love chemicals in ourselves and/or others long term, I disagree. 

But then, I'm more a philosopher than a pure scientist.


Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

@jimrich

You know what, chap? You're right! You're absolutely right. Love is supposed to be revived when it dies, and it can live eternally like that, by being resurrected over and over. In theory, at least. In practice, half the time, what comes out of the ground seems more like Frankenstein's monster then a Phoenix eising rrom the ashes. It doesn't feel natural. It doesn't feel as exciting or new as it once did. 

My husband and I play this game together called "The And" in which we ask each other deep and important questions and have to answer with total honesty.

I was planning on taking him out on a really romantic date. I had planned everything- a quiet lunch, a visit to the museum, painting pottery, a fancy dinner, sensual massage... it just didn't pan out. Additionally, we're reading e books together about relationship skills and the art of romance. I was taking The Love Dare before I fell sick and I intend to resume it when I recover. Those things helped a little, or a lot, and I guess I should keep doing them. 

But right now is one of those days where I look back at how I felt when Mr. Suaveterre and I were dating, and I feel so disappointed that the discrepancies between what I expected from him back then, and what has actually happened. We talk about this on occasion- whenever I should happen to feel particularly disillusioned- and in the end it's disappointing and just a bit heartbreaking, but not bad enough to be a dealbreaker.

So we keep talking and we keep reading and we keep practicing... but it still only pays off sometimes. 

If you know of any books or advice I can add to my repertoire, feel free to share. Will more romantic gestures and more talking and more knowledge bring back the excitement and the natural feel of it?


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

@2ntnuf

Except I have control over myself. I don't control others. If that chemical high is dependent on others then WEEEEEEEEE!!! ROLLERCOASTER!!!! Maybe a crash too.


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## seasalt (Jul 5, 2012)

There is an old saying, "When love is deserved the least it is needed the most". I think love is a choice in the same way we choose who to love. I will be married for forty-four years in April and I know I have only loved and still only love one woman. It is the same love I felt forty-five years ago, it just manifests itself in different ways and sometimes takes more effort on both our parts.

It doesn't go away if it is real and truly realized by the people that share it. I'm going to go hug my wife and tell her I'm happy I married her and would have done it all over again at any point in our marriage.

Seasalt


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> @EunuchMonk- Very well, infatuation. Does it matter what we call it? Love, infatuation, it matters not. Both are words people use to describe romantic feelings and those feelings die. Only when NOT nurtured and kept alive! Frankly, I'd rather not mince words. I'm disillusioned and I could cry I'm so disappointed. My question remains the same. Why in the name of everything pure must romantic feelings die?? It's cruel. Because the partners DO NOT KNOW HOW to keep their love and mutual respect ALIVE & WELL.
> @*Deidre*- Oh god, I remember when I was 17 and those were, almost verbatim, the words I said. Mark me, there will come a day when you realize it's HARD to make that choice, that it SUCKS to make that choice, and that you haven't gotten what you were promised by your husband and by society and by Shakespeare and Bronte.
> And you may also "realize" that you failed to make that choice because you simply did not KNOW HOW and came to believe that there was no CHOICE or that it was "too hard" or that you are "disappointed" so you are too angry and resentful now to make the choice to go on loving your partner.
> 
> ...


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Ella have you ever read the story of John and Abigail Adams? I think you should order a book called *"Abigail Adams: A Life"*. I just read it and it is a fabulous story. 

She and her husband were married for 54 years, and lived in a time when there was really almost no romance. None. Their life was anything but romantic. They were farmers, and John made occasional money as a lawyer. When Adams was elected to the Continental Congress, he and Abigail were separated most of the time. She went for years....years....barely ever seeing her husband as he was in Philadelphia or in France, doing what he had to do to win our country its freedom. Yet he could not have done all the great things he did without his wife standing beside him and supporting him, while spending all her time by herself taking care of their farm and raising their children. She was every bit his equal, and he constantly deferred to her wisdom and insights to help him with his tasks as congressman, diplomat, vice president and eventually the second US president. 

Their marriage was a partnership... a true partnership in every sense of the word. Romance had little to do with their happiness, because they were rarely "happy". Their second son died at age thirty of alcoholism. Their daughter died years later of breast cancer. Their marriage was constantly beset by personal tragedy, sickness, war and party politics. They stuck together through everything. 

She and John were rarely "happy". But they were content, and by the time they both died they had built an amazing legacy that has stood the test of time. They didn't live for themselves, they lived for something bigger than themselves, and they found peace and contentment in that knowledge and in each other. 

Romance feeds the feel-good chemicals that you are addicted to, but romance does little to actually provide you with a comfortable, stable, meaningful life. 

Stop thinking that the whole world is supposed to be one big ongoing rainbow party, with poetry and laughter and minstrels and lovers, and dancing, and moonlit walks. Well, that's not what life is. Sorry, but you are setting a bar for your marriage your husband will never be able to meet. And if you continue on with this way of thinking, you will cheat again.


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> @jimrich
> 
> You know what, chap? You're right! You're absolutely right. Love is supposed to be revived when it dies, and it can live eternally like that, by being resurrected over and over. In theory, at least. In practice, half the time, what comes out of the ground seems more like Frankenstein's monster then a Phoenix eising rrom the ashes. It doesn't feel natural. It doesn't feel as exciting or new as it once did. All because you don't KNOW HOW TO DO IT!
> 
> ...


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

EunuchMonk said:


> @2ntnuf
> 
> Except I have control over myself. I don't control others. If that chemical high is dependent on others then WEEEEEEEEE!!! ROLLERCOASTER!!!! Maybe a crash too.


So, are you saying you can't love yourself because you can't control others? 

Are you saying you can't love someone else because they can't control you? 

Or are you saying that love between a coupe is not complete unless each of you loves the other through your own free will while loving yourselves? 

There are no guarantees where emotions or brain chemicals are concerned. Some folks are unable to have any feelings. These are sociopaths. 

So, yes, I agree. 

There are no guarantees.


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

bandit.45 said:


> She and her husband were married for 54 years, and lived in a time when there was really almost no romance. None. Their life was anything but romantic. They were farmers, and John made occasional money as a lawyer. When Adams was elected to the Continental Congress, he and Abigail were separated most of the time. She went for years....years....barely ever seeing her husband as he was in Philadelphia or in France, doing what he had to do to win our country its freedom. I sure wouldn't call that a marriage! Yet he could not have done all the great things he did without his wife standing beside him and supporting him, while spending all her time by herself taking care of their farm and raising their children. She was every bit his equal, and he constantly deferred to her wisdom and insights to help him with his tasks as congressman, diplomat, vice president and eventually the second US president. It's just to bad he was rarely ever with her and that his "other life" was more important to him! I wouldn't want the love of my life sitting home alone while I wildly peruse my musical career in some road band!
> 
> Their marriage was a partnership... a true partnership in every sense of the word. I don't see it as such! Romance had little to do with their happiness, because they were rarely "happy". That' just semantics and word play. What is "happiness" for one may not be for another. Their second son died at age thirty of alcoholism. Yep, having such unhappy, DISTANT parents can often cause kids to become alcoholics or worse! Their daughter died years later of breast cancer. IMO, that's also about inadequate parents/parenting! Their marriage was constantly beset by personal tragedy, sickness, war and party politics. They stuck together through everything. LOL, give me a break! I don't see that they ever stuck together and the tragedies of their children proves it to me!
> 
> ...


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Ella have you ever read the story of John and Abigail Adams? I think you should order a book called *"Abigail Adams: A Life"*. I just read it and it is a fabulous story.
> 
> She and her husband were married for 54 years, and lived in a time when there was really almost no romance. None. Their life was anything but romantic. They were farmers, and John made occasional money as a lawyer. When Adams was elected to the Continental Congress, he and Abigail were separated most of the time. She went for years....years....barely ever seeing her husband as he was in Philadelphia or in France, doing what he had to do to win our country its freedom. Yet he could not have done all the great things he did without his wife standing beside him and supporting him, while spending all her time by herself taking care of their farm and raising their children. She was every bit his equal, and he constantly deferred to her wisdom and insights to help him with his tasks as congressman, diplomat, vice president and eventually the second US president.
> 
> ...


Hear here! That's aces bandit.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> So, are you saying you can't love yourself because you can't control others?
> 
> Are you saying you can't love someone else because they can't control you?


No, never said that. Read my posts. The OP is not referring to love. She is talking about a feeling. If that feeling is governed by the way someone behaves towards you it is not certain, nor constant. Imperfect people do imperfect things that might diminish that feeling.



> Or are you saying that love between a coupe is not complete unless each of you loves the other through your own free will while loving yourselves?


All love is an act of the will, not the emotions so, yes, it must be from your will, and, of course, if you can not love yourself you will not be able to properly love another.



> There are no guarantees where emotions or brain chemicals are concerned. Some folks are unable to have any feelings. These are sociopaths.
> 
> So, yes, I agree.
> 
> There are no guarantees.


Exactly. So the OP's question is answered. "Love", as she calls it, is not guaranteed because it depends of the ebb and flow of emotions and brain chemicals, which make one infatuated, not love. Love is an act of the will. Romance is good but it is because so many people make their marriage depend solely on it that many of them fail. One can easier feel that love high with a new partner than with the old in most cases.

OP said she has done many things to bring back this feeling. She might have to keep doing those things even if they are not immediately rewarding and they feel like a drudgery. Like it or not, that is the nature of emotions. They are never constant.

We are just a generation steeped in fantasy. Thus why Hollywood is a billion dollar industry. I think that's what the old people had that we don't; less T.V., facebook, and all those other things that skew people's perspective on what life should be.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

EunuchMonk said:


> No, never said that. Read my posts. The OP is not referring to love. She is talking about a feeling. If that feeling is governed by the way someone behaves towards you it is not certain, nor constant. Imperfect people do imperfect things that might diminish that feeling.
> 
> I get what you are saying. I just disagree that love is not a feeling. It can be, just as it is a verb. I agree with the rest. Imperfection and all.
> 
> ...


Oh, I agree with that. There is a deeper love from knowledge and respect of the spouse or partner that builds, if we let it. That's a mature love that builds over time. It is still good. It feels comfortable, warm, and passionate on a level that feels deeper than infatuation. It's the goal of infatuated couples. They just don't realize it until they are more mature...or maybe never? :laugh: Oh well, I'm sorry for them. 

Thanks bud. Take care.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

@jimrich I like the cut of your jib. I've just got to figure out how to make it right again.

BTW, our date day didn't pan out because the vacuum broke and I couldn't clean the house, because I discovered an enormous stain on my satin gown, and because I took sick with a cold and I need him to stay at a safe distance so as not to catch it. So instead of spending the day giving each other sensual massages and eating out at a 5-star restaurant, I spent it sick and miserable, trying to repair a vacuum and get a gown to the dry-cleaners. Thus, the sadness. How do I repair something like that??


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Love it or loathe it ~ it's called life!

And it's preeminently how we go about choosing to deal with the problem at hand, in order to help insure ourselves of the love that we need from that person we largely need it from! And the person that we want to surrender our very own heart to!

Just stay positive and stay loving!*


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

I just rescheduled our date for Boxing Day! <3

Everybody else will have that kind of a sense of loss that people get after the Christmas holidays end... not us!


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## jasmine31 (Jul 12, 2016)

edit: deleted 
jasmine31


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Some people are better than others at maintaining that in-love feeling.

Here are some books that talk about how to maintain it. In addition to her book, you might benefit from the TedTalks and other lectures on youtube given by Esther Perel.

Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence by Esther Perel

"Love Busters"
"His Needs, Her Needs"

You talk about how all sorts of things got in the way of the romantic date you were planning with your husband. This in on you. You choose to let the sorts of annoyances that happen often ruin your romance. Learning to manage your own state of mine is a large part of maintaining happiness and romantic love.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Does one need more and more romance to keep that spark going? Romantic love is partly illusion yet there's a lot to be said for loving with all your heart and expressing that in various ways... and going through the trials and tribulations of life together. 

I've experienced a woman into her late 90s, kiss a photograph of her husband each night and place it beneath her pillow. In the morning, she kisses the photograph again and places on her bedside. If you spoke with her, she wouldn't talk of romantic gestures, although I'm certain they shared plenty. What you would hear about are stories of resilience and working hard together.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

What I'm considering with romantic gestures, the cherries-on-top (of which I love), are special within a marriage when the solid foundations are there. Without that and without having each others back, it's just niceties lacking substance.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

On Romance...I found this definition some time ago..this greatly resonated with me.. this was less about LUST.. but one of giving / sharing, the thrill of a shared "intimacy"...



> *Being Romantic means being sensitive, affectionate, and spiritually-inclined.*
> 
> The paramount quality of a romantic person is sensitivity. The romantic is a person who FEELS deeply, and attaches a lot of meaning to those feelings. Because of this, the romantic will express him/herself through such things as affection, verbal declarations of love, and meaningful gestures, all of which come from deep within.
> 
> ...


I believe a couple can still hold the romantic flame through the decades... sure it goes out from time to time, or the flame gets dim .. There will be hills & valleys in every relationship... the mundane every day chores, the pressures of work, the chaos / worry children can bring into our lives, etc etc...

It's about finding the silver lining in the little things..being able to laugh when things are going wrong even, one after the other - the absurdity of it.... but one thing still remains...you have each other to walk through it, slicing the burden in half... bringing each other up when the other is down..it could be so much worse..

Sometimes even a good fight will re-ignite the passion.. this has happened a # of times with us...not that I recommend this.. but it hasn't hurt us either.. then you just end up having amazing make up sex.. I remember this one time...due to the hormones it stirred or something... I felt I needed him like air...it was intoxicating. 

I've never looked at Romance in the sense of flowers, jewelry or poetry so much....but in *Affection*... that's our common denominator ...a shared love language that keeps us in tune with each other... I especially like Urban Dictionary's take on it :.. a physical way of showing just how much you love someone. Its a fondness that consumes you. Wanting to touch, tickle, kiss, hug, or hold. ...."My lover's constant affection is a great reminder of how much he cares for me." .. 

Another area I find important is: Always having something to look forward to...we could call it a "Lover's bucket list".... "Someday I want to go here with you".... "Let's do this together!"...

Trip Advisor  is a great website to hang out in....reviews at our fingertips of vacation homes, romantic getaways, Cabins, Restaurants, Parks, museums, every vacation destination is there.....there should always be something to look forward to... meanwhile you are making memories together...that's what it's about..


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> Urban Dictionary's take on it :.. a physical way of showing just how much you love someone. Its a fondness that consumes you. Wanting to touch, tickle, kiss, hug, or hold. ...."My lover's constant affection is a great reminder of how much he cares for me."


 fondness that consumes you. Wanting to touch, tickle, kiss, hug, or hold


It's not that high of infatuation. It's more like content obsession. There is a patience. A knowing that you will come together, and then a satisfying feeling when you finally do and hug, touch and hold. It's like a vitamin. You can get them other ways, but it isn't as satisfying as eating the fresh fruit and vegetables loaded with flavor. Even that analogy doesn't seem to do it justice.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> You know what, chap? You're right! You're absolutely right. Love is supposed to be revived when it dies, and it can live eternally like that, by being resurrected over and over. In theory, at least. In practice, half the time, what comes out of the ground seems more like Frankenstein's monster then a Phoenix eising rrom the ashes. It doesn't feel natural. It doesn't feel as exciting or new as it once did.
> 
> .....
> 
> If you know of any books or advice I can add to my repertoire, feel free to share. Will more romantic gestures and more talking and more knowledge bring back the excitement and the natural feel of it?


Yes love can be revived over and over and even constantly. It really can! It takes a certain mindset.

Have you checked out Marriage Builders? Their concepts are all about creating and maintaining that romantic love for your spouse. It really works too, if you can apply it.

Even though I am recently divorced, my ex-h and I had that madly-in-love, can't wait to see you type of feelings all throughout our marriage. The reasons that broke us up never interfered with that feeling. I think that we both just naturally were adept at Marriage Builders type concepts without even knowing about them, and then once I did learn about them and apply them even more specifically, it really did keep us in love...butterflies type of mad crazy love, every day, for 13 years.

Unfortunately, that deep love couldn't bridge our problems, and ultimately we had to love each other enough to let go because that was what was best for us both. But for every day I was with him, my heart was soaring, soaked with that bright, sparkly love you are talking about. It was so awesome.

I also know I can have that again as I move forward and love again. It is a skill now. I know how to keep romantic love alive and what it feels like when you can.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> I mean, long-married couples don't go out on dates because they feel like they'll die of lovesickness if they can't see each other. They go on dates because they're desperate to revive that spark, to _feel_ something again.


No, my ex-h and I went on dates because we were dying of lovesickness. We went on dates because we still wanted to court each other. We went on dates because doing those behaviors of courting made us horny for each other and we'd go home and get busy like we did when we really were just dating. 

That spark can be a constant roaring camp fire if you know how to bring it to life.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Why is love like this? Maybe because you make it so complicated OP. I can't get my head around plans being ruined because of a dress or a vacuum, illness yes but the rest is just excuses. You spent an unusually high amount of time planning a romantic day, what about just being spontaneous without all the micro managing, that would do my head in. When our expectations are unrealistic then failure is often the net result.

There is so much in your posts that I completely disagree with. You seem to be your own worst enemy. Breath in, breath out and just get on with it.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> I just recently posted on someone else's thread about the life and death of a love story- how it starts of in a blaze of hormone-addled, chemically-altered paradise, but as with any drug, you need more and more romance to keep the good feelings going and eventually, there's nowhere to go but down because everyday life can't be more romantic than your honeymoon.
> 
> I was invited to an acquaintance's engagement party, and of course I'm going. Mr. Suaveterre is too. I was gushing over how romantic and in-love the happy couple must be, recalling that we were once like that... and I asked him, "Do you still consider yourself a hopeless romantic?" and he said, "Yeah, sometimes."
> 
> ...


Miss @EllaSuaveterre, you have an interesting concept of "love." I don't think I would very much like your kind of "love" because all it is, is hormones and brain-chemistry mixing to create raging attraction. I just don't understand how that can be "love" to you. That is just so much less than my definition that I barely see a connection between the two. 

In your world two people have initial attraction in some way--they see each other or hear each other, and boom! Chemistry! And then they do more and More and MORE just to keep that chemistry level up and it's never enough and eventually... what? They lose interest in each other? They drift apart? They get tired of having to try to keep the chemistry level so high? Clearly they lose the "high" because no one can stay high forever! So your definition of what love is...well it ends in disaster!

My definition of love is much different. First I believe Love is a DECISION--a choice I make for which I am personally responsible--to be a LOVING PERSON. Love is also an ACTION (not a "feeling"), so when I have made the choice in my head to be LOVING...I then follow that up with ACTIONS that demonstrate LOVE. Finally, being a married person, I make a vow to my Dear Hubby to love him and only him all the days of my life through every circumstance that life ends up throwing at us. I CHOOSE to love, through unemployment (that's no fault of his own), through illness, through poverty, through crises, through sorrows, through all the stupid little things that happen that just bring ya down! 

I CHOOSE. It's not a feeling I wait to have wash over me. It's not a feeling that depends on someone else so they are responsible for me. It's not a feeling that changes if I'm hungry, tired, angry or lonely or that time of the month. It is a CHOICE. I will include my husband, and treat him at least as good as company, and clean up after him as happily as I clean up after visitors, and call him lovey-dovey nicknames, and tell him OUT LOUD when I'm proud of him, and learn how to respect him, and make the effort day-in and day-out to learn about him and love him the way that he "hears" love. Nowhere, in my definition, am I helpless or a victim or "it just happened" or "I can't help it" or anything! Always it is about ME...what kind of person am I going to be? 

And here's the thing I find particularly striking. YOUR style of love leads naturally to disaster because no one can ever "keep the high going forever" and that's just a feeling of being high--not LOVE. Love is how a person is inside! By contrast, MY style of love leads to one of two things: a) if only one party engages in being loving, they become a better person-they may eventually lose the marriage but they are more mature and have grown in a healthy way... or b) if both parties engage in being loving, then they share closeness, and harmony, and peace, and intimacy, and thoughts, and feelings and life, and ongoing joy even in the hard times. 

See, you talk about long-time marriages as if they were *only* duty. My Dear Hubby is very ill and I don't stay with him because "we've-been-married-for-years-and-I-can't-just-leave-him-like-this." That would be sad! I stay because of who I am, because of promises of made, and because of HIM. Yes, I did make a promise and I'm the kind of person who honors their promises. But he is also the kind of man who had to courage to stay and work on reconciliation when I strayed! And he is the kind of man who raised seven children! And he is the kind of man who finds me sexy and desires me! And he is the kind of man who is possibly the funniest, smartest, sharpest person I've ever met. Every day we wake up and kiss, and make each other coffee, and share what's ahead for the day, and send each other silly stuff on FB, and hold hands, and make dinner together, and cuddle on the couch while we watch our show, and play games together, and read to each other, and surprise each other with hugs or little presents. THAT is what I think of when I have to do something medical but kind of icky like a bedpan. THAT man. The man who wrapped our bedroom mirror in garland to make is "holiday festive." 

See? I don't look at his eyes and get "high" like the hormone-addled thing, but I do kiss him and melt! And I do touch him every minute I can. This is a very different love than yours--your "romantic love." We are romantic in our own way that means something to us (like we have a private anniversary that no one knows about but us!)... but not like high school kids who just met. That's childish, and when I grew up, I put away childish things. I made the decision to be who I promised I would be--and I gave him the freedom to choose to be the husband that HE promised to be and let him do it too! I don't nag him--let him figure it out! I don't demand that my needs be met or that he speak my love language to "make me feel lovey-dovey"...my Love is inside ME! 

Does this make sense? Your love is like a shooting star that burns out upon entry into the atmosphere and is out in a flash. My Love is like a SUN: it burns and Burns and BURNS because I choose to keep loving and letting someone love me. Oddly enough that's the harder part for me: letting someone love me. I get scared. I feel TOO close and TOO intimately known and want to back up a little. But even then it's a choice to love and be loved even when it's scary.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

@Affaircare- You describe your love as being like the sun in that it burns and burns and BURNS, as you said... How? 

How can a love not based on "the high" of infatuation ever "burn" with anything? How can it feel satisfying and beautiful when you've already tasted the high? We both know that high can't last. But it still feels so good that everything else is just bland in comparison. When you're in it, you can KNOW it's not going to last, but it feels so good you don't care! 

I wish I could rewind the clock and groundhog-day the year Mr. Suaveterre and I first started going out over and over and over. I was never happier. Now, I try to resurrect what we had. Of course I do. I give him sensual massages, cuddle sessions, and romantic bubble baths. I write him poetry, hand-make cards for him, and go out on dates with him and it feels wonderful. We've been reading marriage books like "Not Just Friends". We play The And. We make each other coffee, watch movies together, and kiss all the time, just like you and your Hubby. We reminisce and have inside jokes and even a secret language, and in some ways, there's no one who understands me quite like he does. It's all lovely, really.

I love the look in his eyes whenever he's looking at me. I can tell there's so much affection there, and I feel that affection for him too. 

But nothing I do, I don't think, will be enough to bring our emotions back to 2009 when I was a lovestruck teenager. That makes me so sad. I don't know how to get over the loss of that idealism. At the worst of times, I feel nothing short of conned out of the happily-ever-after that I fully expected to get when I married Mr. Suaveterre at 18. My disappointment in the reality of long-term relationships was so great, that the moment I realized my husband was not literally flawless, I cried on and off for WEEKS. Shortly thereafter I was diagnosed with major depression. I know that seems like an extreme reaction, but as I said, sometimes I feel conned out of my fairytale.

If it weren't for the other things I mentioned- the love in his eyes, the romantic gestures I orchestrate, the things we share, the feeling of closeness- I'd probably have left long ago in search of another heartbreakingly temporary high.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> [MENTION=10177]
> But nothing I do, I don't think, will be enough to bring our emotions back to 2009 when I was a lovestruck teenager. That makes me so sad. I don't know how to get over the loss of that idealism. At the worst of times, I feel nothing short of conned out of the happily-ever-after that I fully expected to get when I married Mr. Suaveterre at 18. My disappointment in the reality of long-term relationships was so great, that the moment I realized my husband was not literally flawless, I cried on and off for WEEKS. Shortly thereafter I was diagnosed with major depression. I know that seems like an extreme reaction, but as I said, sometimes I feel conned out of my fairytale.
> 
> If it weren't for the other things I mentioned- the love in his eyes, the romantic gestures I orchestrate, the things we share, the feeling of closeness- I'd probably have left long ago in search of another heartbreakingly temporary high.


No, nothing you do will ever bring back how you felt nearly 8 years ago. You were little more than a child then. The human brain doesn't finish developing until approx. age 25, so your brain was literally underdeveloped. It's not possible to think and feel as you did then as you are now past that stage of development. People who continue to think and feel like "lovestruck teenagers" past maturity are disordered. You don't think and feel that way anymore because you're maturing. That's good!

Also, your brain is not wired to be deliriously happy for long periods of time. The brains feel good chemicals are finite and must be replenished before we can feel good again. That's nothing wrong with you or your marriage. It's simply biology.

What you felt and believed before about long term romantic relationships was basically the hearts and flowers sold by movie studios and publishing houses. The Disney Princess thing. Find the perfect Prince Charming and live happily ever after. It's all romance and adventure culminating in a beautiful wedding. The End. But that's not real life. No one gets a fairy tale. Thank God for that! Life is messy and chaotic and it's full of beauty. Compared to fairy tales written in the common formula, real life is much more full of adventure and excitement because it's so uncertain and mysterious. None of us knows the future, yet we bravely live and love anyway. That's amazing!

Of course you realized your H is not flawless! He's a real, live, human man! What is more deeply and insanely romantic than seeing a person's imperfections and passionately loving them as if they were perfect?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> @Affaircare- You describe your love as being like the sun in that it burns and burns and BURNS, as you said... How?
> 
> How can a love not based on "the high" of infatuation ever "burn" with anything? How can it feel satisfying and beautiful when you've already tasted the high? We both know that high can't last. But it still feels so good that everything else is just bland in comparison. When you're in it, you can KNOW it's not going to last, but it feels so good you don't care!


 @EllaSuaveterre, which would you say burns hotter: 5 pieces of grass on fire, or a log? The 5 pieces of grass catch fire a LOT quicker, and burn out just as quickly--but they are the catalyst that start the kindling twig...then the branch...and finally the big old log on fire. But the burning embers of a log is FAR hotter than the quick flash of the 5 pieces of grass. Without the grass, the log would never start, but the heat of the grass is very low compared to the heat of the log. 

It is very similar with love. You keep wanting to rewind the clock and get the quick blaze of the 5 pieces of grass, and boy it sure was a great, burst of flame! But burning 5 pieces of grass and then 5 more pieces and 5 more pieces...and looking for more grass elsewhere... is not really going to create true, deep warmth OR heat! Real Love-- such as is built by acting in a loving way toward another, honoring your promise to them, treating them like a visitor in your home (politely and with manners), being kind, being generous and sharing ALL of yourself with another person --is what builds a hot conflagration. Sharing when you are afraid to let them see the real you. Being honest. Sharing memories. Loving and being loved. These things are SO MUCH HOTTER than the quick flash of intensity that cools. 

When I think back now on the days when Dear Hubby and I were infatuated, first I was SO SURPRISED that someone my age could feel like a teenager (I was later 30's at the time). I was so happy my heart wasn't dead! And I do look back fondly on those days of sweaty palms and pounding hearts. He used to write me letters that had little drawings in them, and I adored them. But although I view those early days with sentimentality--I would not change them for the world with what I have now! We have MEMORIES together--some good, some bad. I can remember how he stood like a man to offer the gift of reconciliation after my affair. I can remember being so sick one Christmas that we spent two weeks just sick in bed together! I can remember finding out we were going to be grandparents. I can remember laughing with him, and holding hands, and making love. How could that real life and real love even compare to the butterflies-in-the-stomach when we first met? LOL It can't! Those were just possibilities and hopes--this is REAL LIFE and REAL LOVE!

How? Well, that's harder. For me I literally work at it every day--and I take the time to notice what HE did to work at it every day too. That's the bigger challenge for me, honestly--to take my eyes off myself (and my love language and my needs and me, me, me), and look at HIM. What did HE do today? Did he push himself? Did he try hard? Did he take a risk? Did I say thank you or admire him for it? I so often tend to be in my own head and think of my own self, that I risk missing that he loaded the dishwasher. Yes, a mundane daily task--not very glamorous or romantic--but know why he did it? To take some of the burden off me! To give me time to relax with him! That's love! And if I keep thinking about "Make me feel gooey and mooshy" I would have missed that clear and obvious (but less-than-sparkly) act of love. And by missing the act of love, I put myself in the position of missing the feeling. 

So maybe the answer to change your focus. Maybe the answer is to learn about your husband and find out what means love TO HIM (not you). Maybe the answer is to spend time lighting the twig on fire, and then the branch, and then the log instead of "missing" the 5 pieces of grass.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

My grandparents married in the 1930s when they were both 18. They built a two room house on some remote desert land my grandmother inherited and built up a small cattle ranch. Six days a week my grandfather worked in the local copper mines, which meant that grandma was left to tend the cattle and livestock, run the ranch and raise four kids while poppa busted his ass 10 hours a day 2000 feet underground. Two of her kids died before they reached four years old. 

For the first twenty years of their marriage they barely made ends meet, and had to work their fingers to the bone just to make that. No running water until the mid-1960s. My grandfather could never afford to give grandma more than a thin gold band. She never had a diamond ring. They spent their money on horses, cattle, livestock, trucks, hay, feed, tack, lumber. Grandma also grew a garden....on top of the eighty-six hundred other things she had to do every day just to keep that place running. Oh, and she had a milk cow and raised honey bees too. Grandma rarely if ever got to go out to eat at a restaurant. Her and grandpa's only pleasures were church every Sunday, the occasional church picnics, and maybe going out honky-tonkin' two or three times a year for a birthday or anniversary. I think she owned two dresses. The rest of the time it was hard not to mistake my grandma for a man. 

Granddad was not a romantic. He was a tough, uncouth cowboy/miner, who cussed like a whirlwind, drank whisky and terrorized his sons (who worshiped him, by the way) when they screwed up. I never heard my grandparents EVER once say "I love you" to each other. They didn't have too. They showed it to each other every day. Love to them was about hard work, commitment, responsibility to each other and their kids, and total and complete devotion. There was no romance to speak of because there was just no time for it. Love was a verb.

I remember when I was about ten, my grandma suffered her first stroke and was in the hospital for about two weeks. The hospital was right near my elementary school so every day I would run up to the hospital and see her. I never once, during those whole two weeks, ever saw my granddad leave her side. Not once. Dad and his brothers ran the ranch while grandma was sick, and grandpa stayed with her eighteen hours a day. He would sit next to her holding her hand and stroking her forehead and talking low and steadily to her, never letting her feel like she was alone. I NEVER saw my granddad like that. This man was the toughest SOB I have ever known... so tough he would rust if you sprayed water on him. But you could see in the scared, lost look his eyes how much he loved her. And when she died a couple years later from another stroke it just destroyed him. I think he lost a foot off his height. He never was the same and he never remarried. 

I don't know...to me that kind of love is the love worth living for. The steel-strong, active, mature kind of love that a man and woman slowly build-up together over a lifetime of heartaches and victories and tragedies and triumphs. Romantic love is sweet and nice and squishy and warm. Everybody likes it. It's fun. But you don't NEED it to survive. It makes you feel good, but it doesn't hold two people together through the storms of life like devoted, sacrificing love does. That's the kind of love I want to invest in.


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