# "Good Girl" is driving me away



## MyCoolUserName (Aug 29, 2015)

So, I've been married for almost 2 years. When my wife and I were dating, she was ALL OVER me. We never had sex till our honeymoon, but she was often talking about how excited she was to do it...even went on and on one night about how she wants to do it in the car some day. I was always a very sexual person and had many fantasies and desires, and couldn't wait for them to finally come true!

And then they never happened...on our honeymoon I could barely get her to even have sex. Her drive just went down from there. I'll admit, some of my dreams were a bit far-fetched (mile-high club, sex in a pool, etc.) but I can't even get her to try a new position. It's just her on top. The only time it's any different is when she's not feeling like getting up and I bug her for a while and she finally says to go for it but don't make her actually do anything. And we've never ever had oral, she thinks it is too "dirty". Doggy style? won't even try it, too dirty also. Kitchen? Family room? laundry room? No, that's apparently "just wrong". And it keeps getting worse and worse! In the last month, I've never even made it to first base!

It's not just about sex though. It's hard to even get affection in general! Sunday is my only day off, so you think we have Sunday dinner alone? Nope! We have to go to her families house every single Sunday! Date nights? I've been turned down on more dates then from every girl in my entire single life combined! Dancing has always been a big part of my life...I would go country-swing dancing five hours a night 3-4 nights a week before we met. She and I have both taken ballroom dancing classes before we met. So I thought I'd go dancing with her...I've been able to get her to go twice since getting married, and both times she was complaining the entire time! To add to it all, she's completely let herself go. Never gets dressed up, never does her hair, never works out and therefore has gained over 50 pounds.

I don't know what to do. I don't want this to end in divorce, but it's hard when there's no hope in sight. Not only that, but we have a 10 month old baby, and I want her to know her mom and dad. What do I do?


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## MyCoolUserName (Aug 29, 2015)

Personal said:


> 1. Divorce her!
> 
> 2. Divorce does not mean one's child will not know their parents.
> 
> ...


We are both fairly religious and had mutually agreed to wait till we were married. But there was almost never a time while we were dating that she didn't have her arm around me or something like that.

At one point while we were dating we both took a love language test and both scored highest in "Physical Affection". We took the test a few months ago I've still got just as high a score in that category, but it's her lowest category of all. I just don't know what to do


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Baby? There's your issue.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Sounds like her goal was to get a ring on a man's finger. Once that was accomplished, no need to do more. Give the bare minimum (for now). Death will come along in about 70 years or so. You approach your wife for sex and she lays there and says "go for it but don't expect me to do anything"? Maybe she's so comfortable she doesn't feel any need to even try to be a romantic or sexual partner. She doesn't want to date you and she doesn't sound very interested in sex. What does she do to show she loves you and finds you desirable? Let's put it this way, if it were a felony for a woman to be in love with you, would a jury convict her? What would they use as evidence to prosecute her?


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

"I don't know what to do. I don't want this to end in divorce, but it's hard when there's no hope in sight. Talk to your doctor. Talk to your pastor, who will explain marital obligations. I am patient and I love you but I need to see changes or this ends."


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## MyCoolUserName (Aug 29, 2015)

> 7. Considering what you have written you shouldn't be surprised you get no oral sex.


An added note, she won't even let me give it to her. She thinks it is too dirty.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Comes down to this. You sit her down and tell her that so far she turned out to be a great big dud in bed and showing you any kind of love and your letting her know that she either starts acting like a wife and a partner or the changes that will be comings she wont like very much.

Don't just mumble through the words. Tell her in a way that she knows that your through with her lack of affection and her inability to even try. When she said to just go for it but don't expect her to do anything, that is nothing but a flat out slap in the face and a total lack of respect, so you either jolt her prude ass back into reality or tell her that your giving her back to Mumsy and Daddy. You can still be a good father to your child and not have to put up with her crap but it's up to you.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

How old are you and your wife?

How long did you two date before marrying?

Did either of you have sexual experience before marrying?

What type of upbringing did she have? What are her parents like ? ( openly loving?cold?)

Did you two get any premarital counseling from your pastor?


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

Having a baby usually takes the wind out of the sails of even the most sexual woman. My wife and I were fiercely attracted to one another but after our first child, that went way down hill. Being young, never married, and never having had a child before, I was at a loss to understand it all.

I know now that it's completely normal. Your wife probably feels "touched out". I know mine did and frankly, we had sex but not really because she was that into it but she did it for me. 

Then one day, I'd say when our child was about 15 months old, she came down stairs one weekend day in a mini skirt and tight top and I was like whoa, what happened? She said that she was tired of just being mommy and ready to be a young, sexy woman again. I can't remember a happier day. Like many, I suppose I thought that things had changed forever and would never go back to the way they were before.

Thankfully, it was just a short phase after a child's birth.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

MyCoolUserName said:


> We are both fairly religious(


That's your problem right here.. Sorry.. Religion gets in the fvcking way of everything.. 

You buy a car without test driving it ?

Again sorry.. 
But it is clear she thinks everything is dirty and is not interested in any of it.. 
What do you think you are going to do that will convince her otherwise ? 
Tell her you had a vision that god wants her to do this stuff ? It isn't gonna happen because religion is telling her otherwise..

My Ex Brother in law had a similar issue with his first wife.. He had an affair, got caught and got divorced.. 

You can try a *NON RELIGIOUS* therapist.. 

But NOTHING is going to change as long as she has the shackles of religion to hold onto as an excuse..


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Lila said:


> How old are you and your wife?
> 
> How long did you two date before marrying?
> 
> ...


Not being an a$$, but I think you need to re-read the original post.. 

It seems fairly obvious that they had no sex until married.. 

It seems both had some sort of religious upbringing and even if not the OP stated the they are both religious..

Even if they went to a religious person for counseling.. You can see doggy style is dirty and so is oral.. I don't see a pastor saying give your husband a BJ because it's okay with Jesus..


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Always on top? Sounds like a control issue from a childhood trauma, not religious. You are not wrong to want to divorce. Also you are way to tied to her family, which can be a form of control. Seriously your life is as breeding stock and ATM. She and her family will take it from there, no other input needed.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Hey hardtohandel, not even the catholic church has a problem with doggie. When young and rude I ask a priest how about oral ? He said it alll depends on where you finish. I Saul Huh ? he replied "what part of being open to the creation of life don't you understand ? You do know how woman actually get pregnant?". Still cracks me up 44 years later.


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## MyCoolUserName (Aug 29, 2015)

I want to start out by saying how much I love and adore kayla. I truly do, in so many ways. I don't ever want to hurt her. I'm trying everything I can to help her through her depression. But it's hard.

When I was a kid I was neglected and abused verbally, emotionally, and physically by my mom. I was dragged down the stairs by my ear, whipped with coat hangers and vacuum hoses, held to the wall by my throat, and told if I said anything about it she would kill me, just to name a few I remember. It was a few years later till my dad got remarried, and she was great, but between her brain tumor and jumping into raising seven kids, there wasn't much room for affection. So ever since then, I've craved affection. I guess it's where I get my confidence and self worth.

So when I got to college, it was great! So many girls to date and they would all show me affection! When my wife and I started dating after college, she was always hanging all over me and telling me how great I was We both did a love language test and both of us scored much higher in "Physical Affection" than any other category. But the moment we got married that all changed. On our honeymoon I could barely get her to do anything. Then a few months later she got pregnant and wanted nothing to do with me. Our love life got worse and worse. She kept saying it would get better after that trimester, then after the baby was born, then after we got use to the baby, then after her depression goes away...it kept getting pushed back more and more 

So, for example, this week I let her go on a cross country trip to drop her sister off at college and fly home so she wouldn't have to drive alone. after getting home from the trip, I can barely get her to talk to me. She's been walking around watching How I Met Your Mother on her phone with headphones. She's been home three days and I haven't even gotten to first base! Nothing more than a quick kiss. We haven't even slept in the same bed! She keeps staying up till like 2 or 3 in the morning, so I finally go to bed cause I have to get up for work, and when she comes in she goes and lays on the ground with a pillow instead of coming to bed. I tried asking her on a date for tonight but she said no 

I'm not sure where I'm going with this...I guess the hardest part for me was never really being able to enjoy that honeymoon phase cause there was always a different reason. I get her to make out maybe once or twice a month? I'm trying to be a good husband and do all the things I should, but it's so hard when you're not getting anything back.


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## MyCoolUserName (Aug 29, 2015)

JohnA said:


> Always on top? Sounds like a control issue from a childhood trauma, not religious. You are not wrong to want to divorce. Also you are way to tied to her family, which can be a form of control. Seriously your life is as breeding stock and ATM. She and her family will take it from there, no other input needed.


YES, DEFINITELY a control issue! She treats me like I'm a kid who doesn't know how to do anything


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Hardtohandle said:


> Not being an a$$, but I think you need to re-read the original post..
> 
> It seems fairly obvious that they had no sex until married..
> 
> ...


The OP didn't specifically state they were both virgins when they got married just that they ( the two of them) hadn't had sex. Clarifying that point would be helpful.

As to whether their pastors advocate blow jobs, and non vanilla sex, check out themarriagebed.com. I'm not a religious person but there are religious groups out there advocating freaky sex within marriage. They even back it up with scripture.


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## MyCoolUserName (Aug 29, 2015)

Lila said:


> How old are you and your wife?
> 
> How long did you two date before marrying?
> 
> ...



I'm 23 and she's 20

I did almost everything except sex with other girls (oral, fully nude make outs under a blanket at the park or in a locked janitors closet at my college haha). I think that's the hardest part for me is thinking back to all the crazy things I did and knowing I'll never be able to do those with my wife. We had to stay at her inlaws for a week to watch her siblings, so no chance for sex. I suggested we go out for a drive and have sex in the car, or maybe in the pool during the night...she went on a long lecture about how sex is supposed to be special and I need to stop treating her like an object. That's what made me come and start this post.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MyCoolUserName said:


> We are both fairly religious and had mutually agreed to wait till we were married. But there was almost never a time while we were dating that she didn't have her arm around me or something like that.
> 
> At one point while we were dating we both took a love language test and both scored highest in "Physical Affection". We took the test a few months ago I've still got just as high a score in that category, but it's her lowest category of all. I just don't know what to do


Get the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Read them, do the work that they say to do on your own (there are worksheets that help you work through what you need and want.


Then sit her down and tell her that this is not the marriage you want. That the lack of non-sexual intimacy and sexual intimacy is not sustainable. You will not live your life like this. But you want her in your life. So you are hoping that she will read the books with you and work through them. The author of the books also has online classes/seminars that couples can take.

She apparently had not idea what sex really was before marriage. Now that she's married she has no idea what to do about sex. Many women are often brought up with things being put in their heads that 'good' woman do not like sex; that sex is dirty; etc. She needs to learn that a good sex life, and lots of non-sexual intimacy, is a large part of what binds a couple together and creates a solid relationship/marriage.

If she's all hung up about being a mom, she needs to realize that the best gift she can give her child(ren) is a strong foundation by the two of you having a strong marriage.

This is not an option, it's a necessity.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

MyCoolUserName said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > How old are you and your wife?
> ...


Oh my! You two are so very young. So much living to still do. 

Paging @Anonpink. Paging @Anonpink.









AP is an active member on TAM who gives excellent advice. She is much better than I at explaining responsive desire versus spontaneous desire, plus she gets the whole sexual repression from religious upbringing. 

However I would advise you to check out themarriagebed.com. It could give you ammo for fighting your wife's existing religious beliefs regarding sex.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MyCoolUserName said:


> I'm 23 and she's 20
> 
> I did almost everything except sex with other girls (oral, fully nude make outs under a blanket at the park or in a locked janitors closet at my college haha). I think that's the hardest part for me is thinking back to all the crazy things I did and knowing I'll never be able to do those with my wife. We had to stay at her inlaws for a week to watch her siblings, so no chance for sex. I suggested we go out for a drive and have sex in the car, or maybe in the pool during the night...she went on a long lecture about how sex is supposed to be special and I need to stop treating her like an object. That's what made me come and start this post.


The answer to that is that yes, sex is supposed to be special. And it's supposed to be fun. That's why having it in the car and the pool is a great idea.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

MyCoolUserName said:


> I'm 23 and she's 20
> 
> I did almost everything except sex with other girls (oral, fully nude make outs under a blanket at the park or in a locked janitors closet at my college haha). I think that's the hardest part for me is thinking back to all the crazy things I did and knowing I'll never be able to do those with my wife. We had to stay at her inlaws for a week to watch her siblings, so no chance for sex. I suggested we go out for a drive and have sex in the car, or maybe in the pool during the night...she went on a long lecture about how sex is supposed to be special and I need to stop treating her like an object. That's what made me come and start this post.


You and a woman are naked AND you have no SEX ? 

Personally I think you are really missing the signals here.. 

She is an object ? 

Look if she cannot see how important sex is in a healthy and marriage then you need to found counseling.. 

All I can say is I'm making my GF do stuff that 2 years ago she thought was offensive and demeaning.. 

Do you tell her how excited she makes you feel ? 

When you are driving in the car when you can kiss her at the red lights.. Get excited and then take your C0ck out of your pants and show her.. 
Tell her look this is what you do to me..
What am I gonna do with this ? Take her hand and put it on your c0ck.. What is the worst that can happen ? She pulls away ? Says you're possessed by the devil ?

If she does, when you get home tell her you are gonna go to the bathroom and crank one out while you think of her naked and sexy..

OP you need to try to let her know you lust for her.. Maybe that will ignite some fire inside her..

Sometimes I call my GF just to talk to her while I crank one out.. It freaked her out at first, but she gets hot herself now and she loves it.. I will take my GF at any time and anyplace and she knows it.. 

She finds it hot and sexy that I want her all the time.. 

You gotta be bold.. She is your wife.. 

I have many issues and insecurities but when it comes to my GF and sex I let her know I am always hungry for her.. 

Also practice on your stamina and duration.. Try to learn how to zone out a bit.. Make it a game to give her orgasms.. Stamina is also big.. 

If you can wear them out and still be going strong you win this game.. I have an unfair advantage in this department but I use it to full advantage.. All you need to do is wear out your wife and *BE IN CONTROL*.. 

Again I am just thinking and maybe go this route.. Be that sexual beast but in a exciting way.. Kiss her like you're fvcking her.. You know what I am talking about, everyone does.. 

Put her hand on your crotch when you're kissing her.. Let her feel you are getting excited about her.. 

She doesn't like to do oral on you it's okay, you do it on her.. You might awaken something in her.. 
She might go holy sh!t that felt good.. 
Get her addicted to you going down on her.. Then when she is hooked.. Then when you are in a store shopping whisper in her ear how you love going down on her.. Get her worked up in the store.. Make her think about it and make her want it..

So don't talk about it, just do it. Again what is the worst that can happen ? She tells you NO ?.. She is doing that now anyways.. She asks you for a divorce because you're sexual deviant ? It doesn't matter because you're already thinking about a divorce anyways.. 

Again start off slow. Tell her you had a sexy dream about her.. Kiss her more passionately over the next few days.. 

Again don't go from simple pecks to make out sessions.. Just make the kisses more meaningful and passionate. Hold her face.. Pull her closer to you when you are kissing her.. ETC

When she says what's gotten into you.. You tell her I just been looking at you each day and notice how beautiful you are each and every day..


The big issue here is that you are somewhat very inexperienced here as well. Again I'm slow but even I know when a woman gets naked with me, I know my penis is going somewhere inside this woman body and probably several times and different places..

Also there are sex tutorials online..

Do you masturbate ? How much ?

Personally I do it at least 3 to 4x a week during the weekdays.. On the weekends starting Friday I am with the GF so I don't need to do it then.

Crank one out before having sex with your wife.. Takes the edge off and makes you last longer.. Also the more you masturbate the less you get used the feeling of her.. Well at least for me it helps.. The GF doesn't like that I do it so much and wants me to save it.. But I just lie and tell her I did.. Regardless I tell her just fvck me more and I won't have to take care of it myself... For now *( thats me insinuating someone else other than her might in the future )*.... She laughs for a second and then threatens me.. 

At this juncture I just don't see you losing either way with this..


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Well beyond time to have a "Come to Jesus" meeting with her! 

It's time that she faced the stark and sobering reality that sex is a most integral part of the marriage contract!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

Hardtohandle said:


> That's your problem right here.. Sorry.. Religion gets in the fvcking way of everything..
> 
> You buy a car without test driving it ?
> 
> ...


Don't blame religion, blame people's interpretation - Here is bible's view of sex - 1 Cor. The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife.

Here are two additional links for your review -

http://forgivenwife.com/

http://www.shannonethridge.com/prod...ing-with-your-husband-mind-body-heart-spirit/


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## Sandy B (Aug 30, 2015)

It sounds as if she really didn't know what to expect regarding sex. I can think of no religion that discourages sex within marriage. 20 is very young. Is her issue with marriage? How do her parents behave towards each other? She needs to understand that if she's old enough to be married she's old enough to talk about whatever is upsetting her in an adult manner. Telling her your fantasies isn't going to help. Ignoring you and treating you like her roommate is completely unacceptable. I've known a lot of girls with very religious upbringing who were very screwed up about the difference between marital and premarital sex. A pastor, priest, whatever fits in your religion, would be an excellent starting point to get communication moving. If she genuinely feels sex is dirty that may help. I wish you luck.


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## MyCoolUserName (Aug 29, 2015)

Lila said:


> The OP didn't specifically state they were both virgins when they got married just that they ( the two of them) hadn't had sex. Clarifying that point would be helpful.
> 
> As to whether their pastors advocate blow jobs, and non vanilla sex, check out themarriagebed.com. I'm not a religious person but there are religious groups out there advocating freaky sex within marriage. They even back it up with scripture.


I was the third person she had ever kissed (she was only 17 when we met in college). She just thinks everything is dirty.


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## MyCoolUserName (Aug 29, 2015)

Hardtohandle said:


> You and a woman are naked AND you have no SEX ?
> 
> Personally I think you are really missing the signals here..


I knew I could have had sex, but I wanted to save at least SOMETHING till I was married :wink2: haha

She doesn't like when I say dirty things, she gets really mad at me.


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

MyCoolUserName said:


> I was the third person she had ever kissed (she was only 17 when we met in college). She just thinks everything is dirty.


THIS is your problem.

Sorry, I know this was something important to you because of your religion. But, if you didn't know what you were getting, you can't really complain now.

ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS...try before you buy.


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## MyCoolUserName (Aug 29, 2015)

where_are_we said:


> THIS is your problem.
> 
> Sorry, I know this was something important to you because of your religion. But, if you didn't know what you were getting, you can't really complain now.
> 
> ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS...try before you buy.


That's the thing though, she was pretending to be a lot more sexual than she was while we were dating, and even if we did have sex she still would have been pretending till she got the ring

and even if the car you buy doesn't work well, sometimes it's easier to just deal with it than to buy a new one, ya know? haha


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

anonmd said:


> "I don't know what to do. I don't want this to end in divorce, but it's hard when there's no hope in sight. Talk to your doctor. Talk to your pastor, who will explain marital obligations. I am patient and I love you but I need to see changes or this ends."


Exactly. I just LOVE it when Christians embrace the commandment to abstain until marriage and forget the commandment to provide for your spouse's sexual satisfaction ("so that Satan tempt you not...").

I would not expect the talk with the pastor to yield any results. Refusers get really good at justifying how that part of the NT does not really mean that, or how they are exempt from that requirement, etc. But you will at least know that she is actively rejecting that tenet of your faith, and you can act accordingly.

If nothing else, the blowback from your pastor (and if he is a good one, there should be some negative consequence for her) might cause her to at least take the issue seriously, since you've had no luck so far.

P.S. Yes, you got played. Based on my experiences and what I've read, it seems that people can mask their lack of sexual interest with the celibacy requirement. They kick the can down the road, so to speak, hoping things will work themselves out later rather than dealing with the issue up front.

A question for you: did you guys struggle with staying pure? Were there physical signs she was aroused by you? If staying pure was no big deal for her, then most likely she never was that into you and you should get out at soon as your daughter is old enough so that you could care for her alone. If your wife is breastfeeding or co-sleeping, for instance, stop that soon.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

MyCoolUserName said:


> I suggested we go out for a drive and have sex in the car, or maybe in the pool during the night...she went on a long lecture about how sex is supposed to be special and I need to stop treating her like an object.


Your answer to this assertion of hers is simple:

* Sex is special because it is between the two of you exclusively, not because she arbitrarily limits sexual frequency and variety.
* Scripture does not prohibit any sexual activity between a husband and wife. Hopefully you are not Catholic.
* You will not force her to do anything she does not want, but you will not just drop the issue. Any limits she imposes are personal choices - not moral issues - and you will act accordingly. She should not expect generosity from you if she continues to be stingy.

IMO, anyone who is at least somewhat familiar with the Bible will agree that generosity is a consistent theme (notwithstanding the sexual generosity mandate). Ask her how her behavior stacks up against the standards of generosity she claims to believe in.

Lastly, an argument I've seen (and it's coming) is you have an unnaturally high sex drive. Your sin (premarital sex) and bad "worldly" influences are stimulating your sex drive. If you were pure you would not be unfulfilled, so she is not responsible for your current needs. Your response should be:
* The only thing sinful was being unmarried, not the acts performed.
* Your drive is a natural thing that exists on its own. These curiosities just exist - you are not seeing something being done then rushing home to try it on her.
* Sex drives vary widely. Just because she wishes yours was lower does not make it unworthy or subordinate to hers.
* You do not accept as appropriate the idea you should be sexually ignorant to lower the bar so she does not have to try very hard.


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## MyCoolUserName (Aug 29, 2015)

One more thing I want to add...she always thinks everything is "Dirty". Like on our wedding night she wouldn't wear lingerie cause she thought it was dirty. She gets mad when I ask her to. Her sisters took me out to pick out some lingerie for her the night before our wedding. The only time she wears part of that outfit is when she wears the underwear that came with it when she's on her period so she doesn't ruin her regular underwear. If I ever want to try anything new I can't cause it's dirty. I can't even get her to play truth or dare! Once I got sternly scolded because I wanted to buy a couple's truth or dare at barnes and nobel...she started yelling at me for even suggesting it and saying that intimacy is special and isn't a game.

I think the problem is growing up hearing that things are "Dirty". But the problem is that NOTHING is dirty but the act of doing it before marriage. That's it.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

MyCoolUserName said:


> One more thing I want to add...she always thinks everything is "Dirty". Like on our wedding night she wouldn't wear lingerie cause she thought it was dirty. She gets mad when I ask her to. Her sisters took me out to pick out some lingerie for her the night before our wedding. The only time she wears part of that outfit is when she wears the underwear that came with it when she's on her period so she doesn't ruin her regular underwear. If I ever want to try anything new I can't cause it's dirty. I can't even get her to play truth or dare! Once I got sternly scolded because I wanted to buy a couple's truth or dare at barnes and nobel...she started yelling at me for even suggesting it and saying that intimacy is special and isn't a game.
> 
> I think the problem is growing up hearing that things are "Dirty". But the problem is that NOTHING is dirty but the act of doing it before marriage. That's it.


Do you know if her sisters view sex in the same way?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@MyCoolUserName, one more question.....does your wife orgasm during sex with you? Has she EVER had an orgasm and know what that feels like? 

In general, people seek pleasure and avoid pain. Humans are unusual in the animal kingdom in that sex is not an instinct. Barring an unnatural situation, we make a conscious choice when and where we have sex. Orgasms are natures way of guaranteeing that sex is something we choose to seek out. 

If your wife isn't getting any enjoyment from the act, then you will be hard pressed to convince her that it's something she should be enthusiastic about. Ultimatums like 'have sex with me or else' will only work to force her to participate in the act but will not get genuine desire from her. You'll be lucky to get the gumby experience with her praying for you to finish quickly. 

If your goal is to have mutually satisfying and passionate sex, then you're going to have to convince her to work with you on how to make it so. You can do this using a multi-prong approach. 

(1) As many of the posters have mentioned already, communicate the importance of marital sex. Get your pastor to support your position. Does she have an older sister that you can ask to talk to her? 

(2) Put your ego to the side for a moment. Most first timers (women and men) are crappy lovers. As @Hardtohandle alluded to, watch 'how to' videos and read up on becoming a great lover. Sex is just like any other learned behavior, you have to be aware of the proper action before you can put it into practice; and

(3) Many women experience responsive desire - like wood-burning ovens...it takes stoking the fire to get us hot. Figure out what turns her on and start early, well before you go to bed.

Having said all of this, it's not going to be easy. Her beliefs on sex are something that were ingrained into her from a very early age. You will have a very long and tough fight ahead of you.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

MyCoolUserName said:


> She just thinks everything is dirty.


The bad news is it ain't ever going to change with her. She's an iceburg, treating you like a shoe shine boy and that's the way it is and will always be. She may have been taught, programmed, or whatever, but that doesn't make it good for you. Many folks who harm others, bad parents, employees and the like do what they do because of programming. That doesn't make it better for their victims. A woman like her will make you become something you never wanted to be my man.
The good news is there are plenty of other women who have way more to offer you than what you have now. 
Do like my cousin, "preacher" Preston C. would tell you, "forgive her for being a cold, lousy wife and get rid of her my son."


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

The following is exactly what I suggested to another poster:

It's not too late to divorce her and start over. If you are sexually incompatible, it usually gets worse - seldom better. Is that how you want the rest of your life to play out?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Wow OP, you've got a lot of potentials to point the finger of blame.

Girls raised in abstinence, and some boys, associate sex and arousal with shame and that doesn't go away just because she is marries.

She had a baby! A baby only 10 months ago! Weight gain letting herself go....sounds like a very young new mother who is overwhelmed. Her hormones are whacked, her energy level is zapped, her body has changed significantly. She has a bay tied to her hip. Totally not sexy at all. She's not feeling sexy because she knows her body hasn't bounced back. She's not feeling sexy because she is overwhelmed with parenting, she's not feeling sexy because she hasn't learned that sex is good and fun.

Your wife was extremely young and had no friggen idea what she was doing when she talked about how much she wanted to have sex. I'd bet my house she believed what she was saying at the time she said. She probably assumed that once married everything would magically turn perfect and when it didn't she shut down since her youth and ignorance left her no skills to actually cope with her unrealized expectations of "perfect together."

You've got a mountain to climb. Literally a mountain! This may NEVER get better. The ONLY way it will get better is if she wants it to get better.

Does she want to have a sex drive?
Does she want to be able to enjoy sex?
Does she want to have a great marriage? Does she know that to have a great marriage there has to be good sex?
Does she ever orgasm?
Does she ever masturbate?
Does she ever talk openly about sex?
Does she ever tell you what feels good?

Your key is getting her to take ownership of her sexuality and how that relates to taking ownership of the connectedness of the marriage. Currently, she is existing, not participating.

If she agrees to participate in making this a good marriage you've got a chance. If she insists everything is fine the way it is, you've got no chance at all of this ever getting better.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

MyCoolUserName said:


> YES, DEFINITELY a control issue! She treats me like I'm a kid who doesn't know how to do anything


 And you let her and as long as you keep putting up with her excuses and prudish way, the harder it will be so if it's me I tell her that we either come up with a solution to her problem or your leaving. 

Put the cards on the table so she's sees your serious and your not putting up with her attitude. Put the ball in her court. Let her know it's one way or the other and she better make her mind up real fast because time is riding out on her but do it in a way that she fully understands that your not playing games.


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## MyCoolUserName (Aug 29, 2015)

She says she wants to have a higher sex drive.I get her to orgasm almost every time. The only time she doesn't us when she's not into it cause she doesn't want to have sex. Sometimes if she doesn't want anything but it's been a few weeks she'll tell me I can masturbate but I'll tell her I want her to masturbate too at the same time so we can at least enjoy ourselves together... She did it once but the rest of the times she says she doesn't feel like it or she's too tired


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

It sounds like you're not going to be willing to do anything about this, so you should start working on acceptance.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

MyCoolUserName said:


> That's the thing though, she was pretending to be a lot more sexual than she was while we were dating, and even if we did have sex she still would have been pretending till she got the ring
> 
> and even if the car you buy doesn't work well, *sometimes it's easier to just deal with it than to buy a new one, ya know?* haha


* Certainly not for all of the money and the emotions that I would plan on investing in her! And she in me!*


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

MCN, two points: 

First I. (we?) don't care how you feel about her ! Duh, the question really is why she isn't here asking for help to connect with you. It's called empathy and you have it she doesn't. Empathy is not knowing the answer. Is knowing something is off. Combined with caring it results in a willingness to engage in a long term search for an answer and a willingness to sacrifice. Sound like part of true love? So again I say "You are here. Where is she?" 

Second; when I used the word "control" I failed to follow up with an explaination as to why. I think your wife does not like to be touched by you. On top gives her a greater control on how and where you can touch her. Lots of different reasons maybe why, but you will have better luck with lottery tickets then even getting her to open up to the why, forget about overcoming it. 

You love her, this is a painful future. And in the end, even if she ever heals, 90% chance when she is healed she will move on. If she stays it will be out of gratiude, not love. Do you want a wife that stays out of gratitude ?


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

Here is a more focused link. While your wife may express reluctance to read these articles, they certainly got discussions going with my wife. 

Questioning an Assumption: Is Being Valued for Sex Such a Bad Thing? - The Forgiven Wife


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

I also thought, for many years, my wife valued me only for sex. The article helped a lot. Thank you.


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## MyCoolUserName (Aug 29, 2015)

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> Here is a more focused link. While your wife may express reluctance to read these articles, they certainly got discussions going with my wife.
> 
> Questioning an Assumption: Is Being Valued for Sex Such a Bad Thing? - The Forgiven Wife


I read through that and it's exactly what she needs! I don't think it will help much, she's pretty closed off, but there's hope!


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## MyCoolUserName (Aug 29, 2015)

An update for anybody who's following along:

Last night I asked her if she would go on a date with me so we could have some alone time, and she said maybe next week.
An hour or so later her brother came and told her he had been feeling depressed recently, and suddenly my wife comes to me and asks if we can take her brother and sister that we're watching and our daughter out for ice cream! What the H3LL?!

So I humble myself and do it anyway to try and be a good husband...no action at all in bed last night!

Then this morning we were getting ready for church and I told her we need to stop by our place on the way so I can brush my teeth, since I left my toothbrush there last night. She freaks out because she says it will make us late and that I need to just use her mom's old toothbrush and I'm like WTF that's nasty! and she kept screaming at me telling me how ridiculous I was. I'd like to add also that going by our house on the way adds MAYBE one minute to the drive. I was like "You won't give me a blowjob because you think it's gross and unhygienic yet you want me to use your mom's old toothbrush?!"

So we get home and I told her brother and sister "I'm going upstairs for a nap for one hour. Don't come knocking on the door or waking me up." I took my wife's hand and walked her up the stairs. The whole way she was saying "I don't want to take a nap, I'm not tired! I want to read my book" (she obviously didn't get the hints). We get into the room and locked the door and I started kissing her. (I haven't gotten more than a quick peck since she got home from her trip four days ago). She wouldn't even kiss me back! Her mouth was clenched tight and she was completely stiff. So I said "Fine whatever, go read your book" and she walked out and closed the door. I sat down for a minute to collect myself, then walked downstairs thinking "Ohh, she'll like if I sit down and read with her". She was completely asleep on the couch.

And now I'm back upstairs writing this blog post! haha

This whole time since my first post I've been trying to get advice to save my marriage, but honestly now I really don't care.


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## MyCoolUserName (Aug 29, 2015)

I want to make sure you guys know also that it's not just about physical affection. It's any demonstration of love besides just saying it. Like a few months ago when I saved up some extra money from my DJ gigs and instead of buying dj lights I went and bought her a real diamond wedding band to go with her engagement ring (she had just been wearing her engagement ring by itself since she didn't like the old wedding band) I planned out a super nice date with all kinds of activities and at the end of the night I gave her the ring and she totally treated it like nothing, didn't even say thank you! I know I'm definitely not the best husband in the world and I know I mess up some times, but I try, and that's what matters, right? The only time she's ever taken me on a date was once when she wanted to choose the restaurant.


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## Mrs.Submission (Aug 16, 2015)

Your wife did the old "bait and switch"; behaved as if she was a passionate woman until she got the ring. 

Lots of women play that trick on men and I think it's a disgusting way of fooling someone.

It sounds like your wife sees you as her roommate who provides her lifestyle. She isn't interested in a romantic relationship or having private time as a couple; she just wants someone who will pay the bills and help her raise your child. Your wife's behavior is selfish and unacceptable. 

You need to stop approaching her so much and focus on improving your own life. Get out and dance by yourself. Exercise and buy some new clothes. Let your wife know that you will no longer tolerate her coldness and or visiting your in-laws every week. In order to keep you as her husband, she needs to visit your family doctor to rule out any health issues as well as a sex therapist. If she refuses, there will be a separation.

If your wife knows that you are willing to lose her over her self centered attitude, my guess is that she will change her behavior soon. You have to be willing to walk away; life is too short to be so unhappy. You can still be a good father if you aren't with your wife.


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## D1C (Aug 29, 2015)

Sounds to me like she has shut down and the only way this changes is if she wants it to. If she doesn't, you need to ask yourself how much can you take?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Stop playing into this dynamic at all.

Step one is stating clearly what you expect to remain married. In neutral, reasonable, abstract terms. "Wife, marriage to me includes two people who love, respect, have affection and passion for each other. And that includes romance and sex." Let her respond to that until she starts to spin, repeating herself (don't interrupt, just wait for it) and end the conversation.

Step two is go dark on her and do some serious introspection about what your weakest points are, and start to work on them. What are they? Pick one of the biggest ones that you can make a large change quickly.

When you've done those two, let us know what you've discovered and where you're at.

Whatever you do, do not play into this dynamic further. It's like giving a fire oxygen, it will just burn bigger and longer.


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## D1C (Aug 29, 2015)

Is she on any form of birth control by chance?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

MCUN, your story sounds eerily similar to the first two years of my marriage. 

Add in toxic inlaws and it would be pretty much the same! 

Anyway, we are still married, and have a very active and fulfilling sex life today. She had a lot of hang ups from her past that made sex very difficult for her, and she was also seriously depressed. And was suffering severe anxiety. 


To make a long story short, I made sure she understood that I would have a happy and fulfilling sex life, with or without her. I loved her, but I was not going to live a celibate life. Nor a life devoid of passion and intimacy. 


If you aren't willing to leave her, your probably not going to get anywhere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

MyCoolUserName said:


> An update for anybody who's following along:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



These are not the actions of a man who commands respect.


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## Roxxolid (Jul 29, 2015)

You got a cold fish, man, throw her back in the water and motor over to a better place.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

MCUN my man, are you, by chance, related to Copper Top?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Some of the issues you are experiencing now are due in part with the fact that you married so very young (18 and 21) and then added a baby almost immediately. Your limited life experiences are compounding your marital problems. 

Your update today is indicative of you and your wife's level of maturity. Since you are the one that's here asking for advice, we can only tell you what you can do to 'clean up your side of the street', sort of speak



MyCoolUserName said:


> Last night I asked her if she would go on a date with me so we could have some alone time, and she said maybe next week.
> An hour or so later her brother came and told her he had been feeling depressed recently, and suddenly my wife comes to me and asks if we can take her brother and sister that we're watching and our daughter out for ice cream! What the H3LL?!
> 
> So I humble myself and do it anyway to try and be a good husband...no action at all in bed last night!


Okay, this is called a covert contract. You asked her out on a date in exchange for sex. She declined your invitation knowing that your ultimate goal was sex.

This also works with affection. If the only times you cuddle, hug, or kiss her are when you want to have sex, then she's going to avoid those non-sexual acts of intimacy.

Stop the covert contracts. Do nice things for her without expecting anything in return. Ask her out on dates because you enjoy her company, not because you expect to be thanked with sex.



MyCoolUserName said:


> Then this morning we were getting ready for church and I told her we need to stop by our place on the way so I can brush my teeth, since I left my toothbrush there last night. She freaks out because she says it will make us late and that I need to just use her mom's old toothbrush and I'm like WTF that's nasty! and she kept screaming at me telling me how ridiculous I was. I'd like to add also that going by our house on the way adds MAYBE one minute to the drive. I was like "You won't give me a blowjob because you think it's gross and unhygienic yet you want me to use your mom's old toothbrush?!"


Yikes! I can't say "Act your age" because at 23 and 20, you _are _acting your age.

Stop bringing up sex (or the lack thereof) outside of conversations involving the state of your marriage. Don't let your frustrations overwhelm good judgement. 



MyCoolUserName said:


> So we get home and I told her brother and sister "I'm going upstairs for a nap for one hour. Don't come knocking on the door or waking me up." I took my wife's hand and walked her up the stairs. The whole way she was saying "I don't want to take a nap, I'm not tired! I want to read my book" (she obviously didn't get the hints). We get into the room and locked the door and I started kissing her. (I haven't gotten more than a quick peck since she got home from her trip four days ago). She wouldn't even kiss me back! Her mouth was clenched tight and she was completely stiff. So I said "Fine whatever, go read your book" and she walked out and closed the door. I sat down for a minute to collect myself, then walked downstairs thinking "Ohh, she'll like if I sit down and read with her". She was completely asleep on the couch.


{SMH} This type of 'Gone with the Wind' move only works with women who 1) respect their husbands, 2) trust them implicitly, and 3) find them sexually attractive. Figure out which one is lacking in your relationship and work towards fixing it. 

------
Look, you and your wife are maturing and changing. Your likes/dislikes, life goals and views will most likely change a lot in the next 3 - 5 years. Best case scenario, this will happen in parallel to each other. Worst case scenario, you diverge from each other with one going in one direction and the other in another. If you wish to avoid being a divorce statistics, then both of you are going to have to learn to communicate and work together as a team.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

I can't say much about their age. I got married at 22 and barely knew my wife at all. 

The covert contracts do need to stop...


Op, what do you do for your wife that tells her that you live her? Ask her what she loves the most about what you do for her. 


And here comes the part that you will likely have issues with... once you have identified what it is that you have been doing for her that she appreciates, stop doing them. And tell her that the reason you are no longer willing to tell her that you love her in her own love language is because she is not willing to tell you that she loves you in yours. 

Do not have sex with her if she wants to just be a cold fish and lay there. A cold fish is not what you want. You want someone who is willing to explore their sexuality WITH you.

I won't tell you to divorce. Honestly, I think jumping to divorce without first seeking to provide a reason for a spouse to change their behavior is to miss an opportunity for growth. 
But, I will tell you this:

If you do not give your wife a reason to change, she will not likely change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

It sounds like a classic case of good girl syndrome. Google it. Before you give up on your marriage, since you have a child - you need to get into counselling, preferably with a SEX therapist - one that is of the same religion so she will listen to them. Otherwise she will just say they are "worldly" when they make suggestions to her.

There is nothing else you can do to change her, she will only change if she has a desire to and right now it seems she doesn't even have a desire to spend alone time with you even if there is no sex. I think you both have more issues going on than just a lack of sex. A sex therapist can do everything a marriage counselor does, they just have additional training and expertise specifically in sexual relationships. 

Yes it's expensive, but so is divorce and child support.


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## Rosemary's Granddaughter (Aug 25, 2012)

MyCoolUserName said:


> An update for anybody who's following along:
> 
> Last night I asked her if she would go on a date with me so we could have some alone time, and she said maybe next week.
> An hour or so later her brother came and told her he had been feeling depressed recently, and suddenly my wife comes to me and asks if we can take her brother and sister that we're watching and our daughter out for ice cream! What the H3LL?!
> ...


I am confused about why you needed to humble yourself in order to take her siblings out for ice cream?

Mouth clenched tight and completely stiff while you were trying to kiss her? It sounds like she isn't happy with you at all--what else is going on in your marriage?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

As'laDain said:


> I can't say much about their age. I got married at 22 and barely knew my wife at all.
> 
> The covert contracts do need to stop...
> 
> ...



I was like you, man. I was 23 and the wife was 22 when we got married. Hell, I was lucky if I got to work on time though for all the sex we were having. Like other young couples, we fought about other things but luckily for us, sex was never one of them.


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## NotEasy (Apr 19, 2015)

You both need to stop following the current path or this marriage is doomed.

You have many good suggestions above for changing yourself, so I won't add more.

Changing her path is harder given she is not here. You need to shake her tree to convince her that the status quo is not OK. You mentioned you were religious so many mentioned versus, mostly 1 Corithians 7:3-5. I assume you are Christian. These are the standard Christian wedding sermon passage. If you can remember your wedding sermon you will recall them from then. Or if you were as nervious as me you can't recall. Maybe you have the wedding program handout still. Check what bible passage was read. All bible verses should be important to Christians, but the passage read at her wedding should be extra special to her. So read the passage, study it, and discuss it with her.

Or if you feel like really shaking her tree, expand back to verse 1, which ends "It is good for a man not to marry."


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Hardtohandle said:


> That's your problem right here.. Sorry.. Religion gets in the fvcking way of everything..
> 
> You buy a car without test driving it ?
> 
> ...


Religion offers a handy excuse for people who would rather not have sex but any other excuse would work, too. My religion instructs me that God designed and created everything in the natural world. It tells me sex was His idea and so was marriage. We are commanded by God to have sex with our spouse and He calls withholding "fraud". If she found sex desirable, nothing in religion would have been a barrier to having sex with her husband.


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## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

Have you had a frank discussion with your wife yet? You keep talking about things you've tried, but have you told her how you feel?

Honestly, from the way you describe her, she doesn't love you. It's also possible that if you two don't believe in using birth control that she just doesn't want to get pregnant again and is avoiding sex as hard as she can.

Being Christians, my wife and I also had never been with anyone else. My situation was similar, although not as extreme (and we were slightly older than you are). My wife wasn't having orgasms at all for our first eight years of marriage, and as embarrassing as that is, it was not really my fault - she didn't know her body, didn't know what orgasms were supposed to feel like, and didn't seem to be interested in sex much anyway, so we didn't have much opportunity to try. When she finally did have an orgasm, I though that magically she would start wanting sex more, but that was not the case AT ALL. I can't say that your situation is the same, but in my experience, making it more pleasurable for her doesn't necessarily correlate.

Assuming you are Christian, there is nothing in the Bible that says any sexual act is dirty if it is between a husband and wife, so she is getting these "dirty" feelings elsewhere. My guess is like others have stated - sexual abuse as a child. That's probably why she always wants to be on top and in control.

So have a talk with her, be as calm as you can be, and tell her how you feel. Her reaction will tell you how much she loves you and cares about your feelings.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I wouldn't get too hung up on addressing the excuse of the day. The problem is that you're getting excuses. If you managed to resolve one excuse, she'd develop another. It's a constantly moving target. If she really desired having sex with you, nothing would be a sufficient barrier for her. If she doesn't, no reasoning or logic will move her position.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

MyCoolUserName said:


> One more thing I want to add...she always thinks everything is "Dirty". Like on our wedding night she wouldn't wear lingerie cause she thought it was dirty. She gets mad when I ask her to. Her sisters took me out to pick out some lingerie for her the night before our wedding. The only time she wears part of that outfit is when she wears the underwear that came with it when she's on her period so she doesn't ruin her regular underwear. If I ever want to try anything new I can't cause it's dirty. I can't even get her to play truth or dare! Once I got sternly scolded because I wanted to buy a couple's truth or dare at barnes and nobel...she started yelling at me for even suggesting it and saying that intimacy is special and isn't a game.
> 
> I think the problem is growing up hearing that things are "Dirty". But the problem is that NOTHING is dirty but the act of doing it before marriage. That's it.


Just a thought (and I'm 2 pages behind, so it could have been brought up already), but why not talk to her sisters about this?

Yes, it may be awkward, but it seems as though they don't quite share the same issues as she does, seeing as how they were the ones to help you pick out lingerie for her. They also had the same upbringing, I would imagine.

You certainly don't have to get too in depth with them, but raise it as a genuine concern, and they might sit down and have a chat with her.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

MyCoolUserName said:


> We are both fairly religious and had mutually agreed to wait till we were married. But there was almost never a time while we were dating that she didn't have her arm around me or something like that.
> 
> At one point while we were dating we both took a love language test and both scored highest in "Physical Affection". We took the test a few months ago I've still got just as high a score in that category, but it's her lowest category of all. I just don't know what to do


The old bait and switch. Sorry dude.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

MyCoolUserName said:


> One more thing I want to add...she always thinks everything is "Dirty". Like on our wedding night she wouldn't wear lingerie cause she thought it was dirty. She gets mad when I ask her to. Her sisters took me out to pick out some lingerie for her the night before our wedding. The only time she wears part of that outfit is when she wears the underwear that came with it when she's on her period so she doesn't ruin her regular underwear. If I ever want to try anything new I can't cause it's dirty. I can't even get her to play truth or dare! Once I got sternly scolded because I wanted to buy a couple's truth or dare at barnes and nobel...she started yelling at me for even suggesting it and saying that intimacy is special and isn't a game.
> 
> I think the problem is growing up hearing that things are "Dirty". But the problem is that NOTHING is dirty but the act of doing it before marriage. That's it.


Have her read this book.

Holy Sex!: A Catholic Guide to Toe-Curling, Mind-Blowing, Infallible Loving: Gregory K. Popcak PhD: 9780824524715: Amazon.com: Books


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## bc3543 (Aug 24, 2015)

Another thing that is screwing with your marriage is her inability to leave her family behind. You mentioned you can't even spend your one day off with her alone. This is Not right according to God. 

In Genesis he commands the husband and wife to leave their families and cleave to their spouse. As long as she is putting the needs of her parents and siblings ahead of her marriage, you will get nowhere.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> If she really desired having sex with you, nothing would be a sufficient barrier for her. If she doesn't, no reasoning or logic will move her position.


Exactly right.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

bc3543 said:


> Another thing that is screwing with your marriage is her inability to leave her family behind. You mentioned you can't even spend your one day off with her alone. This is Not right according to God.
> 
> In Genesis he commands the husband and wife to leave their families and cleave to their spouse. As long as she is putting the needs of her parents and siblings ahead of her marriage, you will get nowhere.


Another convenient excuse but that's all it is. She managed to leave them long enough to date her man before she got a ring on his finger.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

What denomination are you?
As a Christian who knows the Bible pretty well, I would have to say that your wife's issues are not based on her religion. They are based on her distaste of certain things. Further, your wife is in sin, because she is haughty and rude to you. She is not patient and kind. She seeks her own and does not look out for your best interests. She has an anger problem as well.
Does your wife have a regular time that she spend reading the Bible and praying on her own? Do you? Do you read the Bible and pray together? The answers to these questions will help me to assess your situation more clearly.
Age has absolutely nothing to do with the issues you are concerned about. Your marriage has no less chance of succeeding based on age than anyone else. Most young marriages fail, because the couples got married due to unplanned pregnancy and they were not ready to be married. I got married when I was 20. I have been married for 31 years. I know lots of people who married young and their marriages did fine. I know many people who got married later and their marriages failed. Age has little to nothing to do with it.
There are some serious issues in your marriage, but they can be resolved. The way you are going about it, however, is not going to help you. It will only make her more sure of her position.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Read your OP. Don't let this fall on pregnancy hormones or the baby. While I agree it can have an effect, it isn't a cause in your case.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Read your OP. Don't let this fall on pregnancy hormones or the baby. While I agree it can have an effect, it isn't a cause in your case.


That's for sure. It has nothing to do with hormones and everything to do with false beliefs and a bad attitude. Your wife is making stuff up and you are not calling her on it. You are enabling her. I am not saying to force yourself on her or to try to control her. I am saying that she is mistreating you and she has some serious sin in her life regarding how she treats you as her husband. It is up to you to stop enabling her and to instead hold her accountable in an appropriate way that builds the relationship rather than further tearing it down.
Proverbs 14:1
1 The wise woman builds her house, But the foolish tears it down with her own hands.
I am sorry to say this, but you are married to a foolish woman. The only way this will change is if she repents and she is not going to repent when what she is doing is working for her.


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## Pollo (Oct 17, 2014)

Hardtohandle said:


> That's your problem right here.. Sorry.. Religion gets in the fvcking way of everything..
> 
> You buy a car without test driving it ?


Apparently religion gets in the way of treating people like objects.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Read else's post, and Anton's post. Read them again. And again. You have let her know full well that she is in complete control, and you will put up with any treatment she sees fit to dole out. So either get used to it, and watch your so called marriage wither, or do something. Tell her exactly how you feel. You are normal. You are human. You want more than to be an occasional sperm donor and ATM, and you are willing to put in effort, but not alone. Not anymore. She needs to put in real effort to alter her ****ed up view of sexuality, or she can freeze by herself in the dark. You do your child no favours modelling a sterile, loveless, increasingly bitter (guaranteed) pantomime of marriage. Your wife will do what she is going to do. You don't have to follow her lead, nor should you. Divorce could be the best thing for not only you, but your kid too. And who knows, if you make the consequences of her choices real, very real, your wife might find some motivation to change. One thing is sure though, do nothing, and your life will not get better anytime soon.


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## November (Nov 28, 2013)

MyCoolUserName said:


> I want to start out by saying how much I love and adore kayla. I truly do, in so many ways. I don't ever want to hurt her. I'm trying everything I can to help her through her depression. But it's hard.
> 
> When I was a kid I was neglected and abused verbally, emotionally, and physically by my mom. I was dragged down the stairs by my ear, whipped with coat hangers and vacuum hoses, held to the wall by my throat, and told if I said anything about it she would kill me, just to name a few I remember. It was a few years later till my dad got remarried, and she was great, but between her brain tumor and jumping into raising seven kids, there wasn't much room for affection. So ever since then, I've craved affection. I guess it's where I get my confidence and self worth.
> 
> ...


WOW, thats got to be absolutely unbearable! I make out every day, and twice a month just wouldn't work. She needs some serious counseling help from a GOOD sex therapist, perhaps a phycologist. She CAN learn. Good luck.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

When she screamed at you before church, that's when you should have taken your nap. Put the car keys on the table and tell her that she is on her own. You take too much sh!t from your wife. You need to tell your wife that you must both treat each other the way each wants to be treated. When she loses it, disengage nicely until she is civil. Always let her know that you will come back when she is prepared to speak to you the same way you speak to her. Invite her to do the same with you. That will be the hardest thing for you. You have not had practice and you are trying to overcome childhood trauma. 

What do you think will happen if you tell her you want her to treat you with respect? She is not your mother but you made her into an abusive mother by letting her treat you badly. She will not abuse you or emotionally abandon you when she respects you. She is doing those things now in spite of your being a good man. When she respects you, she will show love and be intimate. 


Have you tried therapy for you issues?


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

This is the best reason to never marry until you have had sex several times with your partner. Does your wife orgasm during sex? If so, sometimes you have to be a little more insistent when initiation sex. My wife also thought oral was "dirty" but within the first year she was enjoying it. Just recently my wife told me that she didn't always want sex when I asked, but was always glad I "talked her into it"....Try being a little more insistent, work on your orgasm producing skills, and if nothing works, resign yourself to a sexless marriage, or divorce...


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## Roxxolid (Jul 29, 2015)

Catherine602 is onto something that many young people have heard from me. Make sure you're sexually compatible before marrying. 

Woodchuck, I wish I could have had an outcome like yours in such a short time. 

My ex had Good Girl, for sure. It was a struggle for years. She never initiated sex, never vocalized her pleasure, never caressed me or grabbed my penis, and was generally a poor lover. She refused to give me a blow job. Her version of it was that no matter how clean that my **** was, it was dirty and made her gag because of the thought of those germs. She had OCD (meat, peas, mash potatoes must remain separate on the plate, not touching and not easy with peas.. Lol) and was bipolar on top of it all... I tried to make her understand that her refusal to get my penis in her mouth was unacceptable unacceptable unacceptable, and told her that I was going to be training her since she didn't know what to do. She tried because she loved me but couldn't get past all her long term phobias. 

Once again I tried to make sure that I was kind and that I thought through my emotions and ego to truly see the problem from her perspective. This is not the same as being a wimp and letting her dictate the terms of our sexual relationship. I am a dominant male and expect to be honored as a partner, respected and understood. 

It came to me that she had been seeing a psychiatrist for her issues and that she had not brought up this issue. I finally confronted her with it and told her that she had to face it, she was damaged somehow through her childhood (dad left when she was six) , religious upbringing (Baptist college which she bailed out of after a year) and other learned behavior. Was she sexually abused? I'll never know. It was evident after a year that weren't going to have improvement. That and other things that led us to grow apart sent me out the door. 

Sometimes things can't be fixed.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

I was indeed lucky. My wife was a man hater, having been impregnated and dumped by her first LTR. It took 4 months, but she had never had an orgasm from sex with a partner, and was stunned that she did every time with me. That fact made her much more willing to open up her sexual horizons with me....It is a wonderful think to by lying in bed, and have your partner walk in and ask if you would like a BJ...


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## jessy81 (Dec 2, 2012)

Hardtohandle said:


> That's your problem right here.. Sorry.. Religion gets in the fvcking way of everything..
> 
> You buy a car without test driving it ?
> 
> ...


I totally & completely agree with u on this 100%! How I wish I was born without such a rigid religion! It makes absolutely no ****ing sense AT ALL to marry someone u haven't lived with under the same roof AND had sex with MULTIPLE times!! Talking is one thing & testing test drives is another! Plus being sexually experienced for both men & women make a married couple's lives waaaaaaay beter sexually!! People have different sex drives & fantasies & preferences! I have been arguing with my husband forever over this issue also....because of my goddamn religion (that i actually hate so much since it abuses the life out of women), he kept talking soooooooooooo much about how we'll have sex everyday forever getting me all hyped up since I have a very healthy sexual appetite then after marriage , after the first 2 months, he finally said it was too much, i need "help" since i love sex too much & there r other ways to express it & we went from 3 /4 days a week to one a week, then once every 2 weeks, then once a month or nothing at all.....i wanted to take my uterus out to not get periods anymore since I got soooo frustrated every time i had to wait 4 it to start & end! Of course, he would be happy to know i had it finally ....i can't tell u how much i cursed my religion & strict upbringing for making me feel guilty about my "freaky nature"! I talked my heart out, cried in desperation, took care of my looks & hygiene...but still getting laid once every 2 weeks or once every week is the max...he is just worn out at work & not athletic (unlike me), so i'm always up to it even if i'm beat, he is not......but when i encouraged him to lose weight & have very light dinners, it got slightly better.....in all honesty, i'm just focusing on going to the gym every day to relieve stress as much as I can & he is also trying not to leave me hanging like that for long......but yes...i agree...religion ****s your life, it really does in every way....holding out till marriage makes no sense & doesn't work for everyone & just keeps people sexually starved, or not be accepting of the "dirty" idea later on, everyone is inexperienced..it's just awful.....i wish i was born out of it....i can't abandon it now, i'll kill myself out of guilt & my family & husband would disown me.....it's just wishful thinking....


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## Tangent110 (Apr 27, 2015)

I admit to not reading every response, but to me, this is simple. One of three things can happen: divorce (not preferred due to religiousness and family/children), living a life of frustration and boredom, getting what you need and want. 

If this was my situation, I would gently grab my wife by the hair and kiss her passionately (just take what you want). I would tell her that you are the man, and you have needs, and you are going to start taking what you want, and that she will love it. I'm not condoning marital rape. I am condoning expressing your needs, being the man, and taking the lead. Tell her that you want her on her knees before you. Tell her you are going to take her when and where you want, how you want. 

Call her as you are driving home and tell her that if she is in the kitchen when you get home, you are going to put her on her knees and she is going to learn how to please you. This is obviously giving her an out (by not being in the kitchen). If she is there, have fun. Be the man; she should like it. 

Whatever you do, don't ask, beg or plead. Men take. Women may say they don't like this, but read any romance novel....they do like to be taken...just by the right man.


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## mintyman99 (Jun 14, 2015)

There are 2 or 3 questions you need to sort out.
1 Sit down and ask each other what you want from the marriage. Just because you are religious does not mean you can't have a healthy sex life. God would not have given you the means to have a good sex life if you were not allowed it.
2 work out how compatible you are or as the case maybe, not. If you are more incompatible then you both need to consider your options.
a) do you stay with each other and be miserable
b) do you both change but that would need to give both some time on your own to work out what changes are needed to make both of you happy
c) do you start a new life apart.
It is good to get ideas of what people think should happen but it will be the 2 of you that will make the decision.
One final thought from me. Are you strong enough to handle your wife, or do you fall into the category of Mr nice guy? Believe it or not, many women like a mr strong guy particularly in the bedroom.
Food for thought.


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## SportingChance (Dec 7, 2013)

Just an opinion: I only read the 1st couple of posts on this topic. Your initial post sounds very similar. Here's a book that has helped me gain some great in sight into the "good girl syndrome" and a person's upbringing and the impact it can have post marriage (without open and honest communication). If chapter 1 doesn't ring a bell, then skip the book. So many times, parents only teach part of the hazards of physical intimacy while being young, without thinking to really educate your kids about the real joy/blessing (and purpose) it is later in life with the right person. The book helped to bridge a few conversations in the past couple of years. In the mean time, work on yourself and what you can do. Trying to "change" another person is often interpreted as they are "broken or basic beliefs are screwed up", and you end up losing exactly what you both want to achieve. Real open/honest 2-way communication is the key. Both people (especially you) not judging when things are shared and really hearing each other out to the end of their thoughts, will help keep her and you feeling safe and open to sharing new things. I don't post a lot, but a few people who post on this website have helped me to see others have similar issues and some topics here keep you sane from time to time (even provides comic relief at times). ;^) 
http://www.amazon.com/And-They-Were-Ashamed-Strengthening/dp/1587830345
"And They Were Not Ashamed: Strengthening Marriage through Sexual Fulfillment"- Laura M. Brotherson


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## BlindNoMore (Dec 17, 2012)

Oh, man. I've lived through this. We just celebrated our 19th anniversary and things are better than they have ever been. Are they what I envisioned? No. Are they better than they were? An emphatic YES.

We were both 'inexperienced' before marriage due to religious upbringing. In my case there was no bait and switch as we never even talked about sex before marriage, except to say that I would give her time so she didn't feel rushed and it would be a good experience for her. This 'time' ended up being not at all during our 7 day honeymoon. Believe me, that was hard. It kind of still is. Let me share with you what she and I were dealing with and what paths we went down.

-She loves the scriptures, reads them frequently, but was still able to say that 1 Cor 7 was not inspired and was not being interpreted correctly
-We read the 'And They Were Not Ashamed' book by Brotherson and she would just discount whatever she didn't like and not try
-We fought about sex constantly, at least weekly. 
-She still let me have sex with her, but would not try to enjoy herself, or would say she couldn't/didn't know how (psychology is a major factor in enjoyment). She refused to have orgasms and would even cry and withdraw if she had one (only when she said I could help her reach that point)
-I continued to do so many things for her, at first in hopes of getting sex, later just to show her that I was doing it without the sex and still it was ok. I had to learn to give/serve without any expectations
-I finally came to the point where I said, I love you but you are not meeting my needs and I'm tired of hurting so I will be leaving the marriage because I want to be happy. She honestly heard me and said she would try for a year and if I wasn't happy then she would know she had tried (that was dicey due to not feeling like she was 'trying' before but she felt she was)
-I developed many talents (guitar, cooking, programming, piano, child care, grocery shopping) and it still did not help her realize that I was a good person and that I loved her
-Since she would not believe me when I told her how I felt (Done that SOOOO many times), I would read many articles to her from Christian sex blogs about how men think (including The Forgiven Wife who so many times said it so eloquently and correctly how I felt ). She would respond with hurt or withdrawal.

All of this seemed so hopeless. I could have sex, but she would never talk about it or enjoy it or really initiate it like she wanted it. What changed? How did it get better? We found out (through counseling and LOTS and LOTS of talking) what her fears were. She found out what her 'scripts' (as the therapist put it) or 'programs' were that were running. She has started to re-write the scripts and undo the programming. Basically these scripts were the way that she would interpret my actions, no matter what they were. Here's some examples of the scripts:

-She found out one of her fears was being unsupported/abandoned. I had let her down many times when she needed me for non-essential things (I made poor choices to 'get back at her'; I was immature) early in our marriage and she had some childhood things that went along with those fears. Her script was that NO MATTER WHAT I did to support her, I was always unsupportive and might abandon her when she needed me. All the acts of service NEVER amounted to anything because of how it was being interpreted by this script in her head.
-My frequent requests for sex meant (this is the script in her head) that all I valued her for was sex. I can't tell you the number of times I tried to talk her out of this belief and do EVERYTHING/ANYTHING she asked me to do to show her that I didn't value her ONLY for sex, but she could not see it until she realized this was a script.
-The results of our sex led to her getting pregnant (she will NOT use birth control of any kind beyond abstinence) and realized part of her reluctance of sex was her fear of getting pregnant again and possibly being abandoned, even though I had attended every birth and delivered many of our children. Obviously, pregnancy is no fun. 
-There were some expectations of what our marriage would be and what I would be like that were not met. These expectations were set up by the religion we attend. She was disappointed with what she felt she had to deal with and divorce wasn't really an option, so she was stuck. There was a LOT of resentment about this.
-One of her scripts was that in order for people to like her, she had to DO things for them. So, when she would agree to sex, it was not really what she wanted and she felt (subconsciously) that she was betraying herself. This led to major disappointment with herself which just kept spiraling downward. 
-Due to a running script, she saw all requests for change/criticism as being unloved for 'who she is' and meaning that I did not accept her. I had told her that she was broken (immaturity, remember?) and that led her to a feeling of being unaccepted. We all need to feel accepted by somebody.

Now. I had to understand this. I had to put myself in her shoes. How would I like to 'make love' to someone who could abandon me, was unsupportive, could make me pregnant, disappointed me and hurt me in so many ways, didn't accept me, and led me to hate myself? I'm not saying all or any of these scripts were rational or based on truth, but they were running ALL THE TIME! Nobody would stand a chance! Women are so complex. Psychology is what makes 'em tick and respond. I don't have a degree in any of this, but once I gave her space to make choices and she understood what was causing her to interpret my actions as harmful, we started to heal. I've asked for the same kind of fantasies as you, and had some of the small things given to me with the possibility of more to come.

I write all this to be thorough and help you see what I've been through in hopes that it will help you MCUN to see it differently. I KNOW how hard it is right now for you. I've wept many a day for the coldness and hurt feelings. I can't say what you should do. But maybe hearing another's story can give you hope and a different perspective.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

@BlindNoMore what I seem to read here is that you've bent over backwards to understand the why of things but nothing has really changed. She's still not rocking your world. And you still haven't left so you were apparently bluffing her. I would submit to you that your empathy for her is demonstrative of your love. And her lack of empathy shows that her love of you is little more than an act to avoid being abandoned.


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## BlindNoMore (Dec 17, 2012)

Yeah... I guess I didn't spend any time talking about how she has changed. Once I understood what she was dealing with and she started undoing the scripts, she showed a lot more empathy. She has been so much more willing to have sex, almost daily, enjoy herself, and even teases me about it now. She is more willing to try what I suggest and even though I don't have every wish granted, she really is doing MUCH more than she was. I am content with where we are and happy to move forward together. Thanks for pointing that out!


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## Angel82 (Sep 7, 2015)

I think being pregnant and a 10 month old would explain a lot of things. Having sex in other rooms is something some people dont care for. My husband refuses to have sex anywhere other then in the bedroom. The only time we had sex in a car was when we were teenagers and had no where else to go. Tried the shower and he hates it...tried the living room and he always pushes into the bedroom...I accepted this.

Is her weight gain from the baby? This is a hard one for some women and I also have a 10 month old and still holding an extra 15 pounds and I worked really hard to lose lose the other 40. I wouldnt even apporach her with oral sex or any different positions during this time. The stress of caring for a baby and the changes your body goes through during that time in my opinion would want me not to have sex and try something different things. Its only in the last 2 weeks my hubby and I are starting to connect sexually again. 

Maybe woe her....plan someone to watch the baby and plan a romantic date without her permission..its already done and give her an hour and half to get ready. I think she would appreicate the gesture. In she is going through pp depression than maybe plan something at home. 

Share your sexual desires and make her feel comfortable but bring these topics up when u are in a better place. 

I dont have much experience in waiting till marriage but it could be intimidating. You said she is on top but does she enjoy it and have an orgasm. Ask her the questions....are you attracted me...are u interested in my sexual needs. To me if she doesnt want to try more makes me thing that she isnt getting much out of it now and all your getting from her is duty sex which would not be enjoyable for you or her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mace85 (Mar 12, 2012)

MyCoolUserName said:


> I'm 23 and she's 20
> 
> 
> 
> I did almost everything except sex with other girls (oral, fully nude make outs under a blanket at the park or in a locked janitors closet at my college haha). I think that's the hardest part for me is thinking back to all the crazy things I did and knowing I'll never be able to do those with my wife. We had to stay at her inlaws for a week to watch her siblings, so no chance for sex. I suggested we go out for a drive and have sex in the car, or maybe in the pool during the night...she went on a long lecture about how sex is supposed to be special and I need to stop treating her like an object. That's what made me come and start this post.



You were sold a bill of goods when you dated her. Between the religious upbringing, and her closeness to her parents, she will never be the wife you want. 

I'm my mind you have two options. Ask her to question her religion and think for herself. Or ask her to question how much she wants to be a single parent. 

She isn't your wife. She's your in-laws daughter and she needs to learn that there's a difference. 

I fear her beliefs have permanently damaged her opinion of sex, and she will never make you happy. 

Leave her man.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

OP's been gone for 3 weeks.


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