# Christmas brought it all to an end :rolleyes:



## Scrooge (Dec 28, 2021)

I’ve used TAM a few years back, when I thought our marriage was over then, but somehow my wife (Feels so strange to call someone that I barely know ‘my wife’) and I managed to literally limp our way through till a few days ago, Christmas Eve to be more precise.

I’m 3x, come from a different background to many people (Mediterranean, not a religious Christian, but a Christian anyway), wife’s a native Brit, 4x (Yes, age gap, not much, but I thought I did well avoiding the generally childish behaviour of some of my birth country’s ladies who are in my age group, clearly I was wrong).

Long story short, I moved to the UK less than 10 years ago, dropping university and leaving family and very few friends behind thinking that we’ll be happy ever after.

Came in, not much culture shock as I was living a Western lifestyle anyway, but needed to adjust to simple day to day activities, I soon (Less than 2 weeks in) realised that I was left on my own, expected to stay at home while she worked (Extremely long hours) for a family business, and get on with it, and also be the housewife.

I wasn’t happy with this, I’m a private man that wouldn’t hesitate to stay in and watch a nice film with my better half instead of going out for drinks with my friends, but I wasn’t a housewife or anyone’s pet, or maid, and when I mentioned that, it turned on me and I was confronted with something in the lines of ‘I’m working long hours to put good food on the table and a roof on top of us while you’re sat doing nothing, what are you moaning about?’, and that’s when I didn’t complain at first (Big mistake, I know).

Instead of complaining, I tried to get myself on my feet, basic life requirements (Register with a local GP, apply for National Insurance number and open a bank account so I can get a job, apply for a driving license, etc., wife who is a native citizen offered almost zero help as she’s always busy, but Google’s there and luckily Gov.uk gateway is simple! Got everything done, finally passed the driving test (Drove since I was 12 and couldn’t reach the pedals, but failed 3 times somehow! Funny!), wife’s generous present was a brand new car, which I did appreciate and it did help me getting a job, eventually, after nearly 13 months of looking.

During all this, life wasn’t happy, wife was constantly reminding me of how hard and complicated life is instead of being supportive, NEVER helped with the driving lessons, and made it sound like I would never be able to get a job anywhere and that I should just be happy that I didn’t need to work and that she was putting food on the table. Any resistance from me resulted in arguments, the nasty type (My parents had a horrible marriage, I had tough upbringing, it was also the first serious relationship that I ever been involved in, so I was an idiot during those arguments, said and done things that I will always regret, verbal exchange was common occurrence, but luckily I never laid a finger on her, something that I take pride in given the dysfunctional family setting that I grew up in).

The job I got was a short drive away, shifts, it was far below my capabilities but I got on with it for many reasons, I knew I had to start somewhere in this country, and I was able to take time off to accommodate for when someone needed to be home (As it seems the wife was never able to take any time off).

During all this, we were both growing apart, I became used to being on my own, had a routine of doing my thing after working the morning shifts while waiting for the wife to come back home (No defined schedule or working hours, she came back when she came back, I NEVER had dinner on my own and ALWAYS waited for her to come back even though I started work early morning, I just didn’t see the point of eating on my own while being married!), and doing all the house work before the going to work on the afternoon shift so we can have the weekend for ourselves.

That was the largest disappointment for me, I did all of it so we can spend time together, we never did, she almost always had something planned to do over the weekend, we were either waking up early to go somewhere, or she just wanted to do some gardening, there was no ‘us’ and she wasn’t even interested in making the effort. I spent so much time on my own, went to bed so many times on my own that I was just cursing marriage and wondering why have I done it.

There was very little sexual activity at the beginning when I moved in, gradually became non existent, (She was very horny almost all the time before we got married, almost bragging about her sexual life and promising all sort of fun, loving things that we would do when we’re finally together, I realise now that it’s same as my native country, a sales’ technique to lure a potential groom, once transaction is complete, no perks. I do understand that arguments weren’t great effect on our sex life though, it’s not all her, or me, but the lack of interest, and the lack of effort IS on her), I eventually got to a stage where I didn’t even bother to mention it or complain about it any more, and I was actually happy without sex as I found other hobbies (I like technology, give me a broken laptop or phone and leave me alone with it, better than sex, specially when you’re not getting any).

She almost never let me see her naked anyway, she lost a lot of weight before we met and was proud of her new body, then after I got here she started putting some weight back (I never found it an issue, but I appreciate ladies’ view on it, body image and self conscience about it, but everything I said or tried to do to let her know how attractive I thought she is was met with a flat no, after being turned down countless times, I eventually found myself looking the other way if she bent over to pick something instead of admiring the view, I mean why would anyone want to look at a chocolate cake that they can’t have?).

Hobbies and pass time helped me through, I changed jobs (First job wasn’t great, got another that was a trap, thought I’d try something else that turned to be a bad decision so I quit, same time she finally got out of her long hours job, life was looking good and I thought ‘great, we’ll catch up with what we’ve lost all these years’), wrong, a couple months in, China gave the world a huge present (Covid), and the wife started realising how hard being at home was (Took her a few months to acknowledge that I was right to want to work!), we were both at home, but we were room mates, I was also so used to doing housework on my own, now she wanted to chip in, so we found ourselves arguing about that instead of arguing about me having to do everything on my own while she was at work! Funny life!

I had enough of the being at home under her feet scenario, so I looked for a job, got a job, still local and flexible to allow us to do anything together if ‘we’ wanted to (Yeah, I was still naive thinking she’ll be interested in sharing a life with me) Soon after lockdown brought another issue, health issues for the wife, started with anxiety, we didn’t know it was at first, then when we did know, it wasn’t as easy to deal with as we thought, and now every time she’s in pain, she thinks it’s something sinister, despite scans showing otherwise. She became good friends with Google, looking symptoms up and trying to self diagnose, almost ignoring doctors’ advice, and just saying she’s in pain all the time, not happy with all clear from doctors, she goes to another department (I tried to be supportive, but I had to mention the possibility of anxiety and hypochondria being a possibility in here, after undergoing a minor surgery as a scan to diagnose what the wife thought she had, that was a red line to me, undergoing surgery to see if I got something that Google matched my symptoms with was a step too far, I’m not a qualified psychiatrist and I probably could’ve done better laying it out, but I was genuinely trying to help).

Our life at home was pretty much on repeat, I started early, came back to find the wife watching TV, concentrating so much sometimes that she wouldn’t even say a word to me before getting in the shower. I get a shower, before I get a chance to have a coffee or anything, dinner’s served because she wanted to eat early, I didn’t mind, we’re eating together after all. Except, we’re not, silence was our guest on the table, then wash up, and back to TV, not a lot of conversation going on, just TV. I had to go to bed early cause I had to be up early, so went to bed on my own, too many times.

A holiday was rescheduled from last year, so we went in, very nice place and a very nice room, we cleaned it together, went to have something to eat, then she got in the shower, me next, and when I got out, surprise: She was watching TV again, I just didn’t even want to be part of it and just pretended to have fallen asleep.

Next day we had a meal booked, we were the only people in there, food was great, she NEVER looked me in the eye, I felt like I was a spare wheel, and I seriously considered leaving her on the table on her own, but stayed, but couldn’t say a word to her any more, and she actually asked what was wrong as if I was over reacting, I mean seriously? Why would I want to be married if it’s all responsibilities and there’s no perks? Calm down ladies, I didn’t want to have sex, trust me, that was the LAST thing on my mind, to sleep with someone that I barely have a conversation with, perks means being acknowledged while sitting 2 feet away across the table!

She didn’t like the silent treatment, but I had NOTHING to say to her any more, and her acting like I was over reacting made it worse, I just didn’t want to be part of this circus any more.

This went on for nearly 2 weeks, we actually had a second week booked to go to from week one, I was SHOCKED to see that she decided to continue with second part instead of heading home, but went on with it, still quiet. There was a trip that she arranged that included sitting across a table from each other, I said to her days before that whilst I was happy to go along with walking and being out, I just could not put myself through being ignored on a table again and that I wasn’t putting myself through the humiliation again, she still tried to act normal, we had zero communication regarding the first dinner, but yet she expected me to go along on the day of the second activity, I just didn’t. Instead, we both left the accommodation so no one will notice that something is wrong, she spent the day sat across an empty chair crying her eyes out according to her, and I spent the day walking till my feet were killing me. But I just couldn’t face the humiliation again, and I did tell her long in advance, so guilt for leaving her to go on her own? Not much of that, no.

Somehow we stayed together after that, finally had a heart to heart conversation, eventually, she said she understood how I feel and acknowledged that she would’ve felt the same way if it was the other way around, but that she didn’t do it on purpose, that it just happened that we grew apart and she became used to sitting and eating quietly, which we did, but I couldn’t be part of that circus any more, and she knew it, and promised to do something about it.

Shortly after that, the job I had during lockdown came to an end just before the surgery, management had a problem with their staff and when I complained about a certain person of interest, who had been complained about by other people too, I was reminded that they were generous with me taking time off unplanned when wife wasn’t feeling well and told to suck it up, I pulled the plug on it and quit there and then, she came first anyway and the surgery was due, so I thought I’d be there for her. I never told her the real reasons for leaving because I didn’t want her to feel guilty or bad, and it was a sh!t job at the end of the day.

Instead of being there for her, we fell out over something and nothing, for the first time she actually asked me to take my hands off her when I tried to comfort her. I did, and decided to sleep on the sofa downstairs (I’m not a perfect person, but when a lady asks to keep off her, that’s exactly what I would do). She never spoke to me for the whole week leading up to the surgery, I eventually had to drive her through, but I behaved like a taxi driver, at that stage, we haven’t spoken for over a week, and after everything that we’ve been through, I was done, tragic timing, but I did my bit over the years, and that was the last bit for me to do.

She was in tears just before getting out of the car, accusing me of not wanting to speak to her, but when I reminded her that she walked past me for over a week after asking me to take my hands off her and not said anything to me, she didn’t even have anything to say and said that her anxiety made her say that. Fair enough, that was at the heat of the moment, but what about the whole week afterwards? She never said anything, stepped out of the car crying and she admitted herself.

I felt HORRIBLE, but there was nothing I could have done, she asked me to keep off her, I did exactly that, she eventually started texting me from her room before the surgery, can’t remember if she actually apologised in a text or not, but said she missed me and would’ve been nice if I was there, which is nice, but a bit too late as I couldn’t be there, Covid means I couldn’t, but she knew that anyway.

Somehow we had another heartfelt conversation when she came back from hospital, she refused to admit doing anything wrong, it’s always something that I have said or done, and accused me of being a horrible nasty person, after all the sacrifices that I’ve made, being there for her and looking after the house while she worked long hours, and losing my job for taking time off, I was the reason things didn’t work out, I just said that it was fine and that since the surgery showed that she was all clear, that I was leaving back home as there’s nothing for me to do.

That was a shock to her, and another heart to heart conversation meant that we were back together again, she acknowledged where she went wrong, and I stayed. Funny. Not. We were still in the same old routine, TV almost all day and every night, not much conversation, go to bed, now she has to sleep in certain position after the surgery so I can’t even touch her or be near her, it’s just sharing a bed, and I was just so frustrated, but kept quiet.

Few weeks later, leading up to Christmas, she was in a very aggressive mode, complaining about almost everything, including how difficult it is to shop for a Christmas gift for me, I mean seriously, I didn’t even want any THING, I wanted HER, to spend time with her, to be happy with HER, not anything material! On the third time she complained how difficult shopping for me again, I nearly just told her not to bother, that and that I had enough with Christmas altogether. But I didn’t, just kept quiet.

Christmas Eve, in the morning: TV again, same show on loop on a boring channel, no conversation, I said I couldn’t do it any more and that I was hoping it will be a bit different now that it’s Christmas, she was shocked and I was blamed for being insensitive, I tried to hug her, she couldn’t even hug me, so I just said that I’d leave her alone and that she can shout me if she needed help with anything, her phone rings and I couldn’t find her, upstairs, cleaning the bathroom! Priorities! I couldn’t believe it, just said that if she thought it was a good idea to clean the bathroom the day before Christmas then that’s what she should be doing and went back to watching YouTube to distract me from my misery!

She cleaned the bathroom, went to the kitchen, asked for help once, I helped, back to YouTube, she went and had a shower and then finally came downstairs, not a lot to say, at that stage I just spent the whole day before Christmas on my own, again. So I just said that I was depressed and not feeling too Christmassy at all, that I won’t even bother to have a shave and that I’m going straight to bed after shower as I couldn’t face another night of silence in front of the TV.

I did that, she came to the bedroom to ask me if I’d come downstairs, so I said I didn’t want to do the same thing over and over again, even though it’s Christmas Eve! She didn’t say much, didn’t even deny that TV watching was what’s going to happen, didn’t say anything! Just said she was going downstairs again, and she did. Once again I was alone in bed, I needed her more than anything, but she wasn’t there, TV came first, cleaning came first, gardening came first, me coming last, I was just depressed, Santa would’ve made a huge mistake if he came to see me that night.

I was awake till nearly 2 in the morning and she was still downstairs, I went to ask if she’s coming to bed, she said she would in a few minutes. She came to bed, we’re both quiet, I’m on my spot, she’s in hers, sharing the bed again.

Christmas morning, I was awake in bed, didn’t know if she was awake or not, so I just got up quietly, still shocked and in disbelief that our life is THAT tedious that even in Christmas Eve we’re cleaning instead of being with each other. I went downstairs and sat on my own wondering what’s happening, then I decided to go get some washing done as it seemed like any other fu**in’ day, she came downstairs shortly after, slammed my gifts in front of me and sat in the other living room, when I went through she said I’d put the washing in to piss her off! Well, I didn’t, but it’s just another day.

I went for a walk, tried to hide my face from the few people who walked past, unshaven, alone, and broken hearted again, but on Christmas day! Merry fu**in’ Christmas!

When I came back she’d got rid of cards, gift bags, everything and left it near the door, I thought she was kicking me out, but she just said I didn’t want Christmas so she got rid of Christmas rubbish, that’s fine, except, I did want Christmas, just with her, not with TV!

I slept on the sofa that night, I just couldn’t be near her, not in the sense of being near her, but so close to her but without being able to touch her, it’s just wrong, I didn’t want to be in bed, alone, again.

Boxing day, same start, aggressive, I was numb, and tired after sleeping on the sofa, went for a walk, came back, she was still aggressive mentioning food being wasted, I just couldn’t handle the aggressive attitude any more, told her I had enough and that I would book a ticket to go home, she just carried on pushing, I snapped and threw the laptop on the floor, £600 to replace hers, I ordered on on the spot, then started looking at flights to take me home.

I just couldn’t pay for it, I couldn’t believe that the marriage is over, I mean I’m smart enough, she’s smart enough, we both know it is, but I just couldn’t do it, went back to the living room and asked her if she couldn’t see how much I needed her, if she couldn’t see that how bad our marriage was, if she didn’t really want to work on it, but it’s all same old same old, telling me that this is what people do, that I’m looking for a robot wife that will look at me all the time instead of watching TV, well, I’m not, and I’m done.

Flights’ page expired, so I went for another walk, came back, showered, slept on the sofa. She forwarded a collection code for the new laptop the next morning as I ordered it on her account (My card, but her account), as I was getting ready to leave, she was just getting out of bed and already in a foul mood, telling me that I slept on the sofa again to piss her off! I mean seriously? Our whole marriage is falling apart, for ALL THESE REASONS! But sleeping on the sofa is the unforgivable deed!

At that stage I just took my wedding band off and handed it back to her, she actually paid for it, and I gave it back to her and told her I couldn’t do this any more. Went got the laptop, spent all day setting it up and recovering data from the old one. She went out, came back, asked if I wanted dinner and put a pizza in for me, I ate what I could and the rest is in the fridge.

This morning, I ask her if she tried the laptop, she just said it will never be as good as her old one (It’s 5/6 years old one that I was thinking of replacing anyway, but there we go, I’m reminded that I broke it, fair enough, I did, but my buttons were pushed, I mean ALL MY BUTTONS were PUSHED, HARD! And I coughed money that I need now that I’m going back home to start my sad life from scratch again, on a much better laptop than what she had, yet it’s not good enough!).

I just can’t do it any more, I’m not here for advice, I know what to do, we need to be away from each other, I just needed to vent out as I have no one in this country to speak to, well, no one at all just now.

Thank you for reading, I just realised it’s page SIX and I been typing for over 2 hours! Whoever read all this deserves a medal! Thanks a lot!


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

You stayed way to long with a dead beat!
Your from the middle east, you should've known better!


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## Suki123 (Aug 15, 2021)

wow Thats a lot of baggage. um it kinda sounds like a non working thing of clingy verses non clingy a bit here. i can tell you that if i am the one wanting to be touchy feely and rejected i would feel bad too. but mabie some is caused by stuff that has been done shes not gotten over that you have done? in my expeirance with realationship issues its a resentment that dampens the sex drive to this degree or she just really is not attracted to you at all,


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Kaliber said:


> You stayed way to long with a dead beat!
> Your from the middle east, you should've known better!


Most Mediterranean countries are not the middle East.


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## Scrooge (Dec 28, 2021)

Kaliber said:


> You stayed way to long with a dead beat!
> Your from the middle east, you should've known better!


I appreciate the input and the fact that this is probably the impression that my post gave, but I didn’t come here for anyone to take sides or to get moral support in the form of bad mouthing the wife.

I’m sure she’d get a lot of sympathy and I’d get lots of criticism if she started a thread describing how she feels about our marriage. I wouldn’t actually mind it if she did that as I prefer to see constructive criticism, or even marriage ending rather than no effort at all.

She’s not perfect, but neither am I.

The bit that kills (Killed is more accurate) me is how little effort she put into the marriage, compared to what I believe I’ve done, our marriage is just nowhere near the top 10 items on her list of priorities, and that is painful to grasp.


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## Scrooge (Dec 28, 2021)

Suki123 said:


> wow Thats a lot of baggage. um it kinda sounds like a non working thing of clingy verses non clingy a bit here. i can tell you that if i am the one wanting to be touchy feely and rejected i would feel bad too. but mabie some is caused by stuff that has been done shes not gotten over that you have done? in my expeirance with realationship issues its a resentment that dampens the sex drive to this degree or she just really is not attracted to you at all,


Ouch, truth always hurt.

Am I clingy? To the marriage, yes. To the person? Not really.

I believe(d) in marriage, in the vows that we both uttered in front of everyone, in sickness and in health, till death do us part.

That is what I was ‘clinging’ on to, I thought I was doing my bit as a decent husband to be there for her while she was too busy at work, while she needed my support. I WANTED to do my part otherwise I would’ve been betraying her and myself and wouldn’t be able to live with myself if (When) things got beyond repair.

I do have regrets, but I have done everything within my means and powers to invest in this marriage, the regrets I have are regarding my reaction to certain things and early red flags, I should’ve taken the lead and put my foot down much quicker, and should’ve done it without being too scared of being my father (A horrible husband, father and person, and I was trying everything I could to NOT do any of the things that I witnessed him doing).

So I don’t think I’m THAT clingy, just a naive idiot that believed in marriage.

I did ask her so many times over the years if she resented me for the mistakes that I’ve done before (Not talking cheating, I never did, just the verbal exchanges during arguments and losing control when she was just in denial all the time), she said that she was happy to move on and that I did make her happy when things were ‘OK’ between us. But as it turned out, things being ‘OK’ for her means I just had to accept everything she’s doing and our life as it is and be quiet. Not OK for me. I’d simply rather be alone, I enjoy my own miserable company and more than capable of being happy on my own.


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## Scrooge (Dec 28, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Most Mediterranean countries are not the middle East.


That’s my fault and on me to clarify:

Kaliber is correct, I did mention the Middle East in my original post, then edited it out for privacy reasons, but he/she must’ve picked it up before removing it.

I apologise for the confusion.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I tried to follow…..it was difficult.
Your complaint is: no sex and she doesn’t spend time talking with you, correct?

what is her reason for no sex?


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## Scrooge (Dec 28, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> I tried to follow…..it was difficult.
> Your complaint is: no sex and she doesn’t spend time talking with you, correct?
> 
> what is her reason for no sex?


The original post spiralled out of control, I was letting steam out to save my own sanity, literally. I am very sorry, and thankful for anyone who took the time to read it.

In the main, yes, it is correct, these were my main complaints.

It’s not that she doesn’t talk to me, it’s the fact that we have minimal contact, life is on repeat button every day, and that daily routine does not accommodate for ANY mutual activities that ‘we’ enjoy as a couple. We have no kids (Thankfully!) or pets, or any other obligatory activities other than weekly shop and checking on her parents, we (She) is also financially comfortable and we would’ve been able to do anything we wanted (Within reason) without worrying about money, we are financially privileged, yet we never seem to do anything other than watching TV programs of her choice, quietly. Alongside arguing about what she thinks I’ve done wrong, of course. This is not what I signed up for, if I wanted a room-mate, I would’ve stayed single.

And even when we did go away for ‘holidays’, as I mentioned in the original post, we were just 2 complete strangers, and she just wanted to watch TV again! I actually told her that we were better off paying for a happy couple’s holiday instead as we didn’t deserve the money we had.

Her reasons for no sex? You name it, she used it. Started with ‘I work too much, I’m tired’, then accused me of putting too much weight on sex (Yet she wanted sex all the time before getting married, I would’ve never married a nun, and I didn’t want to be celibate, but hey ho, I was focusing too much on it).

Then the record changed into I love you but I don’t like you enough, then it was ‘People don’t have sex that often’, and that’s when I just stopped discussing it, it was one thing for her to deny sex for whatever reasons she had, but trying to change what’s classed as ‘normal’ to other people vs what’s not, her opinion became irrelevant when she tried to manipulate reality into her favour, and she lost whatever little respect I had for her at that stage, and that was a few years back.

She did see that I wasn’t just ‘quiet’ about it, but that I lost interest in sex with her, so she tried pity sex, I never turned her down, but it was just awful and I was just happy for her to pretend to get there, I couldn’t pretend, and she got the hint. She let it get to a stage where pity sex was not what’s needed, I needed to clear things up via a constructive conversation, a wet hole was not going to solve our problems. And the fact that she was suddenly happy to have sex instead of having a conversation just made her cheap, I hate to admit it, she is still my wife, but this behaviour and that approach makes women lose value, to me anyway.

It will be 2 years soon since the last time we had ‘sex’, I don’t know if she kept track of it, but it’s easy for me to remember, because it was just another awful Christmas season where we could’ve been happy, but we weren’t.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

No sex, pull the plug. The no sex in my opinion is the glowing check engine light that the romance is gone. 
Is the reason you’re still there because she provides security? Or are you also well off financially? If you are, and you’re unhappy for so long, it’s a no brainer to leave.
However, it’s 99% likely that there’s at least a good percentage of these marriage problems that are your fault. Maybe get some marriage counseling? If the sex was good before marriage, what happened? Do you feel in your heart it was a total bait and switch?
Or could it be that living together is what screwed up the romance. Just trying to figure out your problem. 
Many times the biggest problems are obvious to outside people when all the information on both sides is presented.

what are your wife’s complaints?
Go over those reasons SHE says are for the no sex again, as far as why it dried up right after marriage. It does indeed sound like a bait and switch.


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## Scrooge (Dec 28, 2021)

@Evinrude58

I stayed because I was naive, I believed in marriage and thought I was being a ‘Good husband’ sticking around and not bailing when things got tough. I still believe in marriage, but I don’t see our current relationship as marriage any more, more of a circus, a bad joke.

I am sure that I made a lot of mistakes, just like it takes 2 for a marriage to work, it takes 2 to break it.

This is where I needed her to communicate, tell me what I need to do, instead, the only thing she’s doing is trying to manipulate reality and demanding me to settle for less and less telling me that this is what marriage is about. At first I had to settle for no sex, now I have to settle for little human interaction in the form of a conversation. I won’t be here to see what’s the next thing I’m expected to settle for, not even if we did have kids. I love her, but not enough to sacrifice my own happiness, and I was clear about that a few months back, and she agreed that I had a point.

Marriage counselling? I mentioned it before, she just rolled her eyes on me, as if we’re too smart to need help, I know I’m not, I know I need help, but I can’t do it on my own.

Financially speaking? She always worked long hours and earned a comfortable income, with savings and help from her family she can afford not to work for a substantial length of time.

I have limited funds as I always worked local sh!tty jobs so I can help round the house (I am NOT complaining, I CHOSE to do it because our marriage came first, I just didn’t expect THIS kind of return to my investment!), due to that, I would not be able to continue living in the UK on my own, to try separation or working things out, my only affordable option is to fly back home, it will be dangerous and extremely difficult to start over back there now that I have a UK passport, but I’ll take my chances. Life threw a lot of sh!t at me before we got married and I survived, I’m sure I can do it again.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I don’t know what to say. Sounds like you are thinking logically. Does she want a divorce? If not, why? What does she get out of the relationship? Doesn’t sound like there is much for her either. Most women want lots of attention, and are wanting intimacy like you want to give. Finding one you love is difficult though. Wishing you luck. You might stay for a while and get some kind of training so you can support yourself. Going here and there with no skills sounds scary to me.


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## Scrooge (Dec 28, 2021)

The accusation of thinking logically is a welcome one 😅

She already had a divorce, I knew about it, didn’t mind it, what I didn’t know was that she and the ex husband were living separately when she and I met, but were still legally married. I would have NEVER got in a relationship with a married lady, but I did not know and we were too involved when it came to my knowledge (Literally while preparing for our own marriage), so I don’t think the idea of a second divorce will sit well with her. I on the other hand don’t have a choice, I can not afford to live here on my own, and I refuse to stay in her house if we’re not on good terms.

What’s in the marriage for her? That’s probably a question for her to answer as I’m not the bragging type, all I will say is that whatever little I had went into our marriage, financially and emotionally, but I am FAR from perfect, I just did the best I could, in the best way I knew how.

She did get the attention, she didn’t appreciate it and I was accused of practically being a pervert that has a penis for brains, so it stopped.

I can probably stay and get training and find a job, but I will probably live on the brink of poverty and hardly make ends meet, so I’d rather just go back home and take my chances.

Divorce will also break my mother’s heart as she thought I will finally get the life I deserved when we got married, but I can’t live a lie just to make other people happy.

We haven’t spoken today, she spent the day out, I spent the day trying to sort my sh!t out, it’s difficult to try and pack nearly 10 years away into a suit case, and if you think lack of skills is scary, someone from my country with a Western passport has a LOT MORE to worry about than skills and jobs 😅 But that’s life and it is what it is.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Scrooge said:


> I can probably stay and get training and find a job, but I will probably live on the brink of poverty and hardly make ends meet, so I’d rather just go back home and take my chances.


I think you misunderstood the suggestion. DO NOT leave -- stay there, do the 180 with her, but go and get some training. Use the time to get yourself setup for a job for when you go back home.

Also, don't you also have a passport from your OWN country? If not, apply for one again before you leave.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You are unhappy and unsatisfied. Divorce her. She has no intention of considering your feelings. It’s been over for a while.


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## Scrooge (Dec 28, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> You are unhappy and unsatisfied. Divorce her. She has no intention of considering your feelings. It’s been over for a while.


Sadly, you are 100% right and accurately describing both how I feel and see the situation, not just now, but for the last few years.

One of the things that I did say to her during our last argument is that keeping going as we are without meaningful changes that will make us both happy is like delaying the funeral, our marriage as it is at the moment is too damaged at this stage and burying our heads in the sand will not change much.

I do question my intelligence over allowing myself (And our marriage) to be in this situation for as long as I have, but I’m not stupid enough to practice the very definition of madness: Trying the same thing over and over again but hope for different results.


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## Scrooge (Dec 28, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> I think you misunderstood the suggestion. DO NOT leave -- stay there, do the 180 with her, but go and get some training. Use the time to get yourself setup for a job for when you go back home.
> 
> Also, don't you also have a passport from your OWN country? If not, apply for one again before you leave.


I must’ve misunderstood what @Evinrude58 said, my mistake.

Years of being in the same situation means that I’m literally drained, I already gave her every ‘nice’ part of me and tried to do the decent thing, I have nothing left to give and to be quite frankly, I don’t even want to try given the fact that I see little to no effort from her to work things out. I did my bit over the years. I do not owe her, or this marriage any more effort.

Getting the native passport from here will be very risky to my family living there for reasons that will be difficult to explain, and I won’t put them through that. Life in there is around 400 years behind, it’s complicated, I left it behind, but I will get through it one way or another when I get back, will just need a few weeks of lying low till I get local documents sorted. But I can’t go back to uni so job wise, I’ll be limited, but that’s the least of my worries just now.

Or, I can max my credit card in here and use my savings up to start over here, but to be honest? Just now I just want to disappear off the face of the Earth altogether.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

You've put up with it this long. NOT suggesting you do anything for your marriage. Just live there. Keep your interactions with your wife at a minimum and get some training (can even do it online) and then get out. 
Can't you go to your countries consulate in the uk to get your passport? Why do you need your family to intervene?


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## Scrooge (Dec 28, 2021)

@jlg07
I think there’s some sort of a mix up, I do not want my family to intervene, as far as my family's concerned so far, I’m living the dream, ate till I was too full to move on Christmas dinner and all safe and sound. They have enough problems to worry about where they are, so problems with our marriage are not something that I will trouble them with, if/when it’s over, they’ll know about it and the details will remain private.

The consulate would be more than happy to get me a travel document, provided that they could verify details of immediate family back home, ALL of them, which is not a clever move with a nation that follows the Russian style of democracy. Sleeping rough in the UK is a better option, and I am not that desperate, my wife could easily go and buy a piece of furniture with double my savings, but they are sufficient enough to fly me out of here, and I will be able to handle the local sh!t in there, I think.

As to staying in the house if the marriage is over? It’s her house, I did contribute with appliances and DIY projects over the years, but it remains hers, maybe it’s a pride thing, or a cultural difference, but if it’s over, I’ll be out. As soon as I can.


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## Scrooge (Dec 28, 2021)

On a separate note, and after a couple of quiet, almost peaceful days of no communication at all, wife’s injured herself somehow today, nothing significant but enough for her to ask for help in the kitchen while cooking what was supposed to be Christmas dinner so it can stay in the fridge instead of throwing away. I was happy to help and checked her injury to see if it would require medical attention, it didn’t. I kept it brief, did what I was asked to do and helped as much as I could.

Then she ‘realised’ that a part of the meal can’t be cooked and saved, but required serving immediately, so we ended up on the table having some of the meal. I went along because I didn’t want to argue, I literally had enough arguing for this year and my head’s spinning already with me trying to get my head around what I’d need to do next if/when it’s over.

She tried her famous small talk strategy while ignoring the elephant in the room, that the meal tasted nice and blah blah blah, I just said it was just food at the end of the day and kept quiet, she got the hint and stayed quiet till she finished her portion and left the table.

I know she’s trying to make an effort and be civil, but after all the aggressive attitude that lead us into where we are today and ruined another holiday season, I just couldn’t be part of this circus again. I know some people will think I’m too cruel and nasty and that I should at least appreciate it, and I did, but sitting on the same table was as civil as I could be today after spending days having to run horrible scenarios that will keep my family and myself safe if things didn’t work out.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Scrooge said:


> @jlg07
> I think there’s some sort of a mix up, I do not want my family to intervene, as far as my family's concerned so far, I’m living the dream, ate till I was too full to move on Christmas dinner and all safe and sound. They have enough problems to worry about where they are, so problems with our marriage are not something that I will trouble them with, if/when it’s over, they’ll know about it and the details will remain private.
> 
> The consulate would be more than happy to get me a travel document, provided that they could verify details of immediate family back home, ALL of them, which is not a clever move with a nation that follows the Russian style of democracy. Sleeping rough in the UK is a better option, and I am not that desperate, my wife could easily go and buy a piece of furniture with double my savings, but they are sufficient enough to fly me out of here, and I will be able to handle the local sh!t in there, I think.
> ...


Sorry I guess I misread -- I was under the impression that you needed your family back home to do something to get your home country passport.

As for this:
"As to staying in the house if the marriage is over? It’s her house, I did contribute with appliances and DIY projects over the years, but it remains hers, maybe it’s a pride thing, or a cultural difference, but if it’s over, I’ll be out. As soon as I can."
There is an American saying -- don't cut off your nose to spite your face. If it's OVER, then USE some time to get yourself setup for the next stage of your life. YOU are going to put your ass in a sling over what? pride? DON'T do that.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I agree. Get as much $ from her in the divorce as you can. 

If it is dangerous for your family if you move back home, can you do everything you can to stay in the UK?

Think of getting all you are due in a divorce as protecting your family!


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## Scrooge (Dec 28, 2021)

@jlg07 and @Livvie,
I understand, and appreciate what you’re saying. It is not that simple for me however.

On one hand, I will, most likely, have to live separately from my family if/when I get back home, living with them (Even with local documents) will put them in danger (Please don’t ask why, it’s just too complicated). But I will at least be able to keep in touch with them more often, and to be quite honest, I won’t end up dying alone, which is the only thing that scares the sh!t out of me in life.

On the other hand, I made the mistake of getting married, so I am finding myself questioning why am I considering going back home and leaving my family exposed to consequences of bad decisions that I made, which leaves me to staying in the UK and starting over.

Problem with that, being with my wife was the only reason I came here, I have lived all these years with no other plan for me but being with her. Starting over in here means I have to get a mortgage (Not easy if you got no deposit, or ‘look’ different!) and work like a dog just to make ends meet, and what for? To die alone? (Renting is not something I would do, I might as well just pour the money down the drain).

As for suggestions to get money out of the wife, I could be wrong, but I am quite sure she will actually volunteer to ‘give’ me money because she knows how screwed up things are for me either way, but really, do I want to start my life over with money from the same person that screwed me up in the first place? I don’t think so. But I know how stupid that makes me sound, reason for that is that I do have some daddy issues, I don’t want to do what my father did (Another long story, he’s a real piece of work).

Anyway, we still didn’t discuss anything properly, I just couldn’t face talking about it either last night when everyone else was happy or drunk, nor today when it’s supposed to be a fresh start. I just went for a long walk yesterday afternoon and went to bed in the spare bedroom before 6 O’clock, I just didn’t want to be with her. I heard her going to bed around 10, so I’m guessing the company of the TV wasn’t that interesting after all.

She has lost her arrogant/defiant tone though in the last couple of days, which might help me calm down when we finally speak, I just need to figure out what I’m going to do first.

My father took advantage of me being at uni and screwed my mother and my siblings up, then he turned his attention to me when I confronted him and screwed me up too. I had no choice who my father was. But her? I chose her, and she had every reason to be happy, nice house, expensive car, highly paid job, and a moron that loved her, and what has she done with it all? Blew it all off.

I don’t respect people who are miserable by choice.

This is not what I had in mind for today 

Sorry for ranting.

Happy New Year everyone.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

@Scrooge is your wife much older than you ? Honestly if you were not working then she had no choice to work, that’s the reality and it seems work to maintain a very good life style which you benefited from. Honestly you sound a bit dependent and whiny. Expect her to help you with everything. You’re an adult who was not contributing to the household, what’s wrong with getting off your butt and learning about things in your adopted country, you speak English well, why did you expect her to hold your hand? Many women on this forum can identify with hardworking husbands who may not always be around because they are busy being providers. Have you ever been a provider?
Sounds like you have had a cushy life with family, education paid for and now a well off wife.
Your wife is not your mother and you need to put on your adult man pants and take care of business with or without your wife.

to


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## Scrooge (Dec 28, 2021)

@aine

I am fully aware that my initial post was extremely unorganised and difficult to read or follow. I’m not sure this is a good excuse for such a reaction however, as it seems you chose to respond before you read the whole thing, or perhaps I just reminded you of someone that you really don’t like? 

Either way, just to address the points you raised:

My family had the opposite of a ‘cushy life’, my mother, siblings, and myself were very fortunate in many ways just to be able to keep our head above water.

I would have been the provider had it been safe for her to live in my birth country, it wasn’t. I was already starting a very well paid career before I even graduated when we met, but because of safety, our relationship was not going to move forward unless I moved into the UK, I made my choice, and now I’m paying for it, no problem. I can live with that.

I did not expect her to ‘hold my hand’, and I did get myself settled in on my own. If that showed me anything, it would be that she was not there for me from week 2. I would’ve never left her to set herself up on her own if it was the other way around, but that’s probably my fault for expecting support from my own wife helping me settling in a country that I knew no one else but her. Maybe it was too much to ask for, maybe that makes me too demanding, ‘dependant and whiny’, but the flip side doesn’t make her a supportive spouse either.

She had no choice but to work, I agree. But what she did when she was at home was no one else’s choice but hers, and both our marriage and me always came last. Every single time.

Me not working at the beginning was a decision that she made for me, I did get ‘off my butt’ and got a job(s) while prioritising our marriage, that didn’t sit well with her in the beginning, then both of us working ultimately lead to us growing further apart.

Yes we lived together in her house, but I did not benefit from the ‘very good lifestyle’, and I would’ve swapped it all just for us to have a decent marriage. But more to the point: Everything is in her name, and regardless of the ‘legal’ whose name is on what, I did say that everything she worked for is hers, I did contribute when I could, but she will be keeping everything now that it is over.

I don’t need her money, man makes money, money doesn’t make a man.

What I ‘needed’ from her wasn’t the money or the lifestyle, I needed the company of someone I love and a partner in life. She earned the money, and I genuinely hope she’ll enjoy it, but I won’t be here to see it.

But yeah, I’m a dependant piece of sh!t, thanks for stopping by.

I wish you lots of happiness in your current/future relationship(s)!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Scrooge said:


> @aine
> 
> I am fully aware that my initial post was extremely unorganised and difficult to read or follow. I’m not sure this is a good excuse for such a reaction however, as it seems you chose to respond before you read the whole thing, or perhaps I just reminded you of someone that you really don’t like?
> 
> ...


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## Scrooge (Dec 28, 2021)

aine said:


> I am sad to hear this, I recall you saying it was something to do with your father, so it sounds like you do come from a middle class background but due to circumstances things didnt work out.
> 
> I am somewhat sceptical of your stance that you had a well paid career without any tertiary education? But how would I know? The whole safety issue doesn't make sense to me if you are from the meditarrean unless you are talking about North African countries and religion.
> 
> ...


Your earlier post was based on assumptions and wild accusations, and tried to force me into a mould of a character of someone that you must really dislike. Then your second post is still making wild accusations that I’m not telling the truth about my background or our situation, and asking questions that were mostly answered in my earlier posts in this thread, so I think I can detect a pattern by now.

Based on that pattern, and knowing that my opinion is worthless in here, but forcing my situation to make it fit somehow into your own life/experience or whatever you linked it to isn’t a very practical idea, I am terribly sorry for whatever bad memories I, or our situation has reminded you of, but I’m not even remotely interested in correcting your assumptions or convincing you of anything at this stage, because it doesn’t seem to matter, you will most likely come back with more assumptions and will be ‘sceptical ’ of anything I’d say, so just believe what you want, your opinion is the least of my worries today to be quite frankly.

One thing you were absolutely right about however is that we both have completely different priorities. We have now reached a stage were we have fundamental differences and I have, over the last few years, come to accept the fact that I will never make her as happy as she deserves to be, and neither will she be able to make me happy. Sad as it is, not much will change now.

She is not a bad person, I did not come here to bad mouth her, or take comfort in criticising her, and I was clear about that from the beginning. We both have been through a lot before we met, and she does deserve to be happy, I tried my best to do what I thought would make her happy, but it’s time to let go and move on given the circumstances.

This is why we (Well, I), and after another heated argument a few days ago, have decided that there’s no way forwards. She said that she was happy for me to stay in her house till I get a job, which I am incredibly grateful for, all with the intention of moving out (By end of January, I will hopefully be out). I have also told her that it will not be a problem if she changes her mind and wants me out any sooner, I would not question it, it is her house and I’m a guest in here.

My marriage has fallen apart, so I’m clearly not in a position to give advice to anyone, but I would read people’s threads before making wild accusations if I were you. I know people are different, but most people come here because they’re going through rough times, questioning their integrity and/or their character by people who seem to have ignored most of what they said and chose to form pre mediated opinions about their whole lives is not a nice thing to do. What goes around, comes around. I wouldn’t want to see you, or anyone else, at the receiving end of this behaviour.

Again, I wish you lots of happiness in your current/future relationship(s)! And best of luck to whoever you choose to be your better/other half


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Scrooge, I know we've been on the other thread for a while, but I wonder -- did you ever bring up the idea of marriage counseling with your wife? I've re-read your thread and what comes through to ME loud and clear -- NEITHER of you know how to communicate with the other. There is a ton of resentment I think on BOTH of your parts.


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## Scrooge (Dec 28, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> Scrooge, I know we've been on the other thread for a while, but I wonder -- did you ever bring up the idea of marriage counseling with your wife? I've re-read your thread and what comes through to ME loud and clear -- NEITHER of you know how to communicate with the other. There is a ton of resentment I think on BOTH of your parts.


You are 110% correct, there’s A LOT of resentment on my side, and I am pretty certain it’s the same for her.

There was no communication in this marriage, any and almost every conversation needed to be going her way, otherwise I found myself having to justify/defend myself on things that happened before I was even born (Sarcasm, but partially true). If she’s wrong, which is as rare as a Solar eclipse, it’s still my fault for not being understanding or for over reacting.

I did mention marriage counselling, I don’t actually remember her even verbally responding or acknowledging my suggestion, she just looked at me and as childish/passive aggressive as it sounds, the look meant NO! She never brought it up again when fresh arguments took place either, she had no interest whatsoever in sharing our dirty laundry with a complete stranger.

I come from a dysfunctional family and grew up in a pre historic nation, I have enough loose toys in my attic to require a consortium of psychiatrists. Her family, whilst not as bad as mine, still had issues (And still do), and she knows she has inherited and is repeating certain traits that needs addressing, she will criticise her parents for what they do and how they interact with each other, but won’t admit that she does the same thing or behave in the same manner. Yet she thinks/thought we’re ‘too good’ to need help, we’re _us_, the perfect couple.

I’m not interested in trying to repair anything any more, but if I was to guess on why she didn’t want marriage counselling, I’d say because she knew she’d be asked to do more work than me for this marriage to work. I’ve shared a lot more than I intended to on TAM, but there’s loads more that I’m keeping to myself. This marriage should’ve never lasted as long as it has.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Scrooge said:


> Your earlier post was based on assumptions and wild accusations, and tried to force me into a mould of a character of someone that you must really dislike. Then your second post is still making wild accusations that I’m not telling the truth about my background or our situation, and asking questions that were mostly answered in my earlier posts in this thread, so I think I can detect a pattern by now.
> 
> Based on that pattern, and knowing that my opinion is worthless in here, but forcing my situation to make it fit somehow into your own life/experience or whatever you linked it to isn’t a very practical idea, I am terribly sorry for whatever bad memories I, or our situation has reminded you of, but I’m not even remotely interested in correcting your assumptions or convincing you of anything at this stage, because it doesn’t seem to matter, you will most likely come back with more assumptions and will be ‘sceptical ’ of anything I’d say, so just believe what you want, your opinion is the least of my worries today to be quite frankly.
> 
> ...


What wild accusations and assumptions are you talking about? 
I will extend the same wishes to you cause you obviously only want to hear what you want to hear. I'm out.
Good luck!


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