# Help, husband is thinking of leaving



## scaredwifeof4

Hi,
I am a mom of 4 and my husband is 43. We have had a rocky time but also good times in last 16 yrs. Our kids are very challenging and we've gone through some financial disappointments. I admit I was SO busy with kids and 90% of running household that it didn't leave time to focus on marriage or sex. He tried to tell me at times but it has been a brewing for awhile. 

In March, we had a blow up and I suggested he would be better off leaving. This wasn't what I wanted. It was just me needing to get a reaction. For the past 6-12 months he has been so distance, angry with the kids and me and doing more things for his own enjoyment regardless of what the rest of the family needs (fishing more, going to listen to bands, other hobbies.) That's all well and good but with the issues and distance just made things worse.
So during this blow up he said he doesn't think we have good marriage and he is so hurt by all that we've been through and the lack of intimacy. I asked he if he was leaving and he said "I can't do that."

So honestly and truly this was the WAKE UP call I needed. My heart opened and I see him and the hurt he has. I've changed the way I respond to him and the way I feel about his time he needs. I even got a babysitter so he and I could go away for the night for anniversary. It felt weird to have the time together and lots of silence but I thought we were on the right track. We had sex and I thought it was good.... We came home and he went away for work travel and when he came back I asked if why he isn't returning my affections etc. and he said it feels "ackward" and forced between us. He said the sex was phyiscally good but no emotion for him. He said going away was "nice" but just doesn't feel right.

Fast forward to a few days ago, I pushed him on why we haven't scheduled a family vacation yet. He finally said he is "thinking of leaving." He said he hasn't made any decisions yet but he's been thinking of it for awhile. This is a man who came from a divorce family who swore he'd never do that to his kids like his dad did. Now he's telling me that the only difference in being divorced is not being here to tuck kids in at night, sersioulsy!!!!
It will kill our kids who have anxiety issues as it is, It will CRUSH us financially, it will kill me. We are active in the community, all of my friends are his too. I don't have any idea how to fix this.

He said he loves me but not in love. That he doesn't feel he can be happy. He also said we shouldn't have sex because it will confuse things. He won't go to counseling with me and he won't even commit to opening his heart and giving us a chance. I've asked him how likely he is go leave and he said he doesn't know. He hasn't made plans but he's considering it now.

We haven't fought for a few months, we talk now better than we used to but he finds all sorts of excuses not to do things together as a family. He swears there is no affair and that he hasn't talked to anyone about this situation. 

He said the big blow up we had a few months ago made he start thinking maybe leaving was an option and then when we went away and it was so "awkward" then he sees maybe this is the only way. 

Please help me. What can I do to stop this disaster. I have no interest in losing this man. Is it likely he will leave? What things can I do to prevent it. I initially begged and pleaded and have tried to make physical contact. I'm pretty sure this is just making it all worse and he isn't attracted to me. I can't eat, can't sleep and barely able to work. 

Thank you in advance.


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## 3Xnocharm

Do not beg plead and cry, all that does he push him further away. You need to do the 180 on him. This is often recommended for cases of infidelity but it can be applied in any relationship that is headed toward divorce. This isn't necessarily to get him back, but to help YOU get yourself centered and prepared should he move forward with leaving. 


The 180

1. Don’t pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Don’t point out “good points” in marriage.

4. Don’t follow her/him around the house.

5. Don’t encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

6. Don’t ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.

7. Don’t ask for reassurances.

8. Don’t buy or give gifts.

9. Don’t schedule dates together.

10. Don’t keep saying, “I Love You!” Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.

11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

13. Don’t sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don’t push any issue, no matter how much you want to!

15. If you’re in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that “they (the wayward partner)” are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…without them!

17. Don’t be nasty, angry or even cold – Just pull yourself back. Don’t always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you’re missing.

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self-assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control. YOURSELF!

21. Don’t be overly enthusiastic.

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Hear what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It’s not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don’t care.

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It “ain’t over till it’s over!”

32. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don’t work out with the affair partner.


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## john117

I fail to see how the 180 will help here if OP admits she did not focus on the marriage because of this or that... Detachment is exactly what OPs husband wants...


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## scaredwifeof4

Well I've certainly been needy and trying to "fix" this issue so I can see how going about my life and keeping our home a happy place will help. I can see how not pressuring him will help. He doesn't want physical contact and says it's ackward. I assume I shouldn't press for this. I know he doesn't want to talk about the situation anymore right now and felt we were going in circles so I should just let it go and try and stay calm?

Is it possible this is a mid life crisis or probably not since we failed to stay connected before this all came to a head a few months ago?

So by doing the 180, am I giving him the detachment he is looking for? I don't see what else I can do when he refuses any attempts to make amends or do things together. He won't go to counseling and says it wont' work and he won't even commitment to actually trying right now. I don't feel like I have many options other than to remain calm and ride the storm. I am so scared. I can't believe we are at this place.


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## WorkingOnMe

Sometimes neglect goes so far that it can't be fixed.


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## GuyInColorado

Did you let yourself go in the looks department? Not trying to sound like an a-hole...being unattractive to your wife is real and will ruin relationships. I became unattractive to my wife's soul, as she was miserable to live with and would put me down in her yelling rages. Then she let herself go physically and I was gone with no hope of reconciling. Even if she lost 50#s and became hot, I couldn't be attractive to a woman that was such a b*tch to me.


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## scaredwifeof4

I've gained some weight but not crazy. typical 25 pds or so since 4 kids. I work from home and I know I didn't do a good job of getting dressed up each day and lots of sweats (big mistake.....I get it now.) I've been on a huge diet and starting dressing nice each day and looking good when he comes home. He did notice last week and asked if I'd done something new to my hair.

I guess I'm wondering IF it is too late. how do you know? when we I know? how long does his decision take? I can't stand the limbo.

To be fair, it wasn't all me. He is an only child who expects things his way, very selfish and needy of "his time." Never one to pitch in much and I'm working full time, keeping up huge house, carting 4 kids around, doing all yard work too. It's not easy. I know I should have focused on us but just didn't realize how bad it was for him.


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## GuyInColorado

As long as he isn't talking with someone else (EA=Emotional Affair) or having a full blown affair (PA=Physical Affair), I personally think there is hope.

At end of my 8 year marriage, I started talking (phone/text) with another woman I met online and that glimpse of a better life gave me the courage to leave my miserable marriage and start over. But my marriage was much worse, no sex for 5 years, me sleeping in the basement on an air mattress, and two people who couldn't stand each other. 

Keep working on yourself. I'd also start investigating if he's talking to anyone else. First place to start is cell phone records. See who he is talking or texting.


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## scaredwifeof4

Thanks! I need that hope. Sex hasn't been good. Only once a year or so. But I see what that has done. He tells me there is no one else but I don't know how to track his cell or FB. Cell is through work. 
How do I reattract him when he says touching me is awkward? How do we start over? Can we? 

How long does this take? How long can a decision drag on?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GuyInColorado

Sex only once a year... things were pretty bad then. That's a sexless marriage. Just roommates it sounds. I'm sure he detached a long time ago. 

You won't be able to get his cell records. I have a work issued cell too and my STBX couldn't access my phone logs. It was perfect.

I'm sure others can give you some good advice. It doesn't look good from my chair.

The only thing you can control is yourself. Make yourself an attractive person to him, physically and behavioral. If it doesn't work out, then you'll be ready for the next man.


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## Marduk

scaredwifeof4 said:


> Thanks! I need that hope. Sex hasn't been good. Only once a year or so. But I see what that has done. He tells me there is no one else but I don't know how to track his cell or FB. Cell is through work.
> How do I reattract him when he says touching me is awkward? How do we start over? Can we?
> 
> How long does this take? How long can a decision drag on?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why do you want him now when you clearly didn't for years?


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## Zanne

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## Zanne

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## Zanne

.


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## Steve1000

scaredwifeof4 said:


> Thanks! I need that hope. Sex hasn't been good. Only once a year or so. But I see what that has done. He tells me there is no one else but I don't know how to track his cell or FB. Cell is through work.
> How do I reattract him when he says touching me is awkward? How do we start over? Can we?
> 
> How long does this take? How long can a decision drag on?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In my opinion, recovering from once a year sexual intimacy is not a quick or easy fix. It is understandable why he would say sex was now awkward. If he feels resentment about this, you will need time to convince him that having a sexual relationship is again important to you. When he asks "Why now?", you'll need to have an answer.


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## wilson

To keep him, you need to be willing to let him go. You need to be so concerned about his happiness that you would let him go if that's what it took to be happy. Right now you may be motivated to keep him around because you're afraid of being alone and the financial impact. That is different than caring so much for your H that you'll do anything to make him happy.

However, don't just agree to let him walk out now. Tell him you understand that he wants to leave, but ask him to stick it out for 6 months and decide after then. You have too much history for him to leave when he's in this state. He need to calm down and then decide.

Although sex is a major issue, don't necessarily try to become a sex maniac. You need to feel things out for how to proceed. If you suddenly are into sex, he's going to think you're just doing it to manipulate him rather than you find him sexually desirable. Try to encourage intimacy through being close and casual touch. For example, when you're in bed, lie against him, or hold his hand, or just have your hand touching his arm. Try to have things progress naturally. Don't worry about initiating sex so much. Right now you're just using it as a tool to keep him around rather than as an expression of your love.

In marriages like this, the couple is more like siblings than spouses. It will take time for things to progress back to being spouses. Make real changes and hopefully he'll want to stay because he'll be happiest with you than without.


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## 3Xnocharm

john117 said:


> I fail to see how the 180 will help here if OP admits she did not focus on the marriage because of this or that... Detachment is exactly what OPs husband wants...


I see your point, but we all know that begging, crying, and clinging just pushes them further away. At least this way OP maintains some dignity. 

I did notice in her OP that she did not state that she loves him...


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## *Deidre*

The question I have for you is why do you want to keep a failing marriage together? Because up until your husband threatened you, you seemed to be fine with little to no sex, and just tending to the kids, over him. I'm not trying to be harsh, but get you to also think about this marriage in terms of what does it mean to you? Is it really more about fear over what everyone will think if you split up, what it will do to the kids, and money? Because if those are your main reasons for wanting to 'save this marriage,' those aren't the right reasons to stay. Not saying you don't love your husband, but having sex once per year? Doesn't sound like you are 'in love' anymore, either to be honest.


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## 3Xnocharm

*Deidre* said:


> The question I have for you is why do you want to keep a failing marriage together? Because up until your husband threatened you, you seemed to be fine with little to no sex, and just tending to the kids, over him. I'm not trying to be harsh, but get you to also think about this marriage in terms of what does it mean to you? Is it really more about fear over what everyone will think if you split up, what it will do to the kids, and money? Because if those are your main reasons for wanting to 'save this marriage,' those aren't the right reasons to stay. Not saying you don't love your husband, but having sex once per year? Doesn't sound like you are 'in love' anymore, either to be honest.


Looks like WAH doesn't it....


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## *Deidre*

3Xnocharm said:


> Looks like WAH doesn't it....


 what is that? lol


This seems to be a recurring theme with some threads here. One spouse, usually the wife, stops having sex...basically treats the husband like a roommate who pays the bills, and wonders why the guy ''fell out of love.'' And then the couple tries to work it out in counseling and they stay together, only to have things go right back to a sexless marriage after a few months. Don't bother working on things if your real reasons for staying have nothing to do with wanting (truly desiring) to stay with the person you married.


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## Satya

Sex is the primary way a man loves and bonds to his wife. Without sex long term, it's kind of like putting him on a starvation diet. It's as important to him as feeling emotionally supported and financially provided for is to you. It's the whole reason he wanted to marry you, to bond and be as one. You changed the focus to your children and he didn't agree to that, so the bond started deteriorating when you rejected his attempts to keep the bond strong. If he can't bond with you, he will stop caring about you as a wife.

Not to put too fine a point on it or be a broken record here, but he sounds done. I'd be kind to him, admit your mistakes, let him go, and don't be over-aggressive in the divorce. If he's a good man, he'll make sure you and the children will be OK.


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## 3Xnocharm

*Deidre* said:


> what is that? lol
> 
> 
> This seems to be a recurring theme with some threads here. One spouse, usually the wife, stops having sex...basically treats the husband like a roommate who pays the bills, and wonders why the guy ''fell out of love.'' And then the couple tries to work it out in counseling and they stay together, only to have things go right back to a sexless marriage after a few months. Don't bother working on things if your real reasons for staying have nothing to do with wanting (truly desiring) to stay with the person you married.


Ooops. sorry! WAH=walk away husband. (rather than WAW, walk away wife, which is the more common thing we see around TAM) The "walk away" happens when one spouse is unhappy in the marriage and they express this to the other spouse, who sticks their head in the sand and ignores the issue until the unhappy spouse hits their breaking point from their needs not being met and is ready to end the marriage. The spouse with their head in the sand is stunned, WHAT? HOW? WHY? Usually they say they had NO IDEA, why didn't unhappy spouse TELL THEM??


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## Happilymarried25

scaredwifeof4 said:


> Thanks! I need that hope. Sex hasn't been good. Only once a year or so. But I see what that has done. He tells me there is no one else but I don't know how to track his cell or FB. Cell is through work.
> How do I reattract him when he says touching me is awkward? How do we start over? Can we?
> 
> How long does this take? How long can a decision drag on?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry you are going through this. Everyone wants to blame the wife but you can only do that if she rejected him. If he didn't express interest in having sex how if she suppose to know if he wants to have sex, maybe he is too stressed, not feeling well, not attracted, ED issues etc. He hasn't been a good husband by leaving her with 90% of the household duties even though they both work. I wouldn't be surprised if he is having an affair, which is why he isn't interested in having sex with you. Men rarely just leave their family to be alone. They usually have a women in the wings.

There isn't much you can do, especially since it sounds like he isn't even going to try. He plays a part in you two growing apart but he won't admit that. He is being selfish by only thinking of himself. He has four children that will be affected severely by leaving. Let him be the one to file for divorce if that's what he wants. He will be the bad guy for leaving you and your children. Don't make the divorce easy on him get as much money as you can.


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## WorkingOnMe

What if he is having an affair? Would that really be so bad? I mean, he needs some kind of outlet and it's not like you were interested. Let him have his fun and it gets you off the hook for something you weren't really into.


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## Satya

Happily, I just want to point out that the OP wrote in her first post that her focus on the kids didn't leave time for sex. 

So I interpreted that as, she rejected him first, now he is rejecting her.

OP please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## *Deidre*

3Xnocharm said:


> Ooops. sorry! WAH=walk away husband. (rather than WAW, walk away wife, which is the more common thing we see around TAM) The "walk away" happens when one spouse is unhappy in the marriage and they express this to the other spouse, who sticks their head in the sand and ignores the issue until the unhappy spouse hits their breaking point from their needs not being met and is ready to end the marriage. The spouse with their head in the sand is stunned, WHAT? HOW? WHY? Usually they say they had NO IDEA, why didn't unhappy spouse TELL THEM??


 What is also a bit odd is that the wife who is often the one not having sex in this scenario, doesn't want to have sex but a few times per year? It shouldn't take the spouse who's ready to walk out to bring that to the other spouse's attention. There's something gravely wrong, when either spouse only wants sex once or twice a year ...WITHOUT an affair going on. 



WorkingOnMe said:


> What if he is having an affair? Would that really be so bad? I mean, he needs some kind of outlet and it's not like you were interested. Let him have his fun and it gets you off the hook for something you weren't really into.


Keep him around to pay the bills, and tell him to have sex elsewhere? Yea, that sounds like the perfect solution.


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## john117

Satya said:


> Happily, I just want to point out that the OP wrote in her first post that her focus on the kids didn't leave time for sex.
> 
> So I interpreted that as, she rejected him first, now he is rejecting her.
> 
> OP please correct me if I'm wrong.


The incremental time needed to raise 3 vs 4 kids is not that much. I would see it as a rejection and believe you me, I know rejection (moths, vermin...). 

How old are the children?


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## SunCMars

marduk said:


> Why do you want him now when you clearly didn't for years?


She had a wake up call. She was too preoccupied raising four children and managing the household. The financial costs and the damage to the children, their families and friends would be devastating

She has procrastinated all those years and now the zit has come to a boiling head. 

She has no choice now.....she must face the elephant in the room. 

This is not good for her, for the husband, for everyone in their families.



Her words:
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
So during this blow up he said he doesn't think we have good marriage and he is so hurt by all that we've been through and the lack of intimacy. I asked he if he was leaving and he said "I can't do that."

So honestly and truly this was the WAKE UP call I needed
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Later he said he IS leaving.

There are some Red Flags here...he may have a girlfriend ??



I would recommend doing a last ditch effort at wooing him back:

a) lose that 25 lbs. get fit. Run/walk/bike/swim with the children. Invite him also.
b) be happy, cheerful, non-confrontational
c) do things as a family, invite him along. keep everyone busy doing things fun.
d) have date nights
e) tell him that you enjoy sex with him and that you are available 
anytime he feels UP to it.
f) have monthly get-togethers at your place and at your family. Tell them why. Reinforce the family bond with him and all in-laws.
g) get some help with [his and your family] to bring him back into the fold.
h) continue to keep up with your appearance...this was a good idea on your part.
I) make his favorite meals.

This is a lot of work ON YOUR PART.

There, I said it. Is he WORTH IT? If so, get busy lady.

I hope he reciprocates....big time! 

If not.....then not....file for divorce.


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## jld

Zanne said:


> It will help _her_, which in turn will help the rest of the family. *Maybe she will even find that it's much nicer without him around. She mentions that he is selfish and needy. He refuses counseling, so.... *not sure what other options she has in this case.


:iagree:

I think you are going to find you are much happier without him around, OP. Leaving will probably turn out to be the best gift he ever gave you, even if it does not seem that way right now.

File and insist on everything you and the kids are legally entitled to.

Good job on working full time and focusing on your kids, btw. Your kids will not forget your devotion to them. They know who has their back.


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## Mr.StrongMan

3Xnocharm said:


> Do not beg plead and cry, all that does he push him further away. You need to do the 180 on him. This is often recommended for cases of infidelity but it can be applied in any relationship that is headed toward divorce. This isn't necessarily to get him back, but to help YOU get yourself centered and prepared should he move forward with leaving.
> 
> 
> The 180
> 
> 1. Don’t pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
> 
> 2. No frequent phone calls.
> 
> 3. Don’t point out “good points” in marriage.
> 
> 4. Don’t follow her/him around the house.
> 
> 5. Don’t encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
> 
> 6. Don’t ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.
> 
> 7. Don’t ask for reassurances.
> 
> 8. Don’t buy or give gifts.
> 
> 9. Don’t schedule dates together.
> 
> 10. Don’t keep saying, “I Love You!” Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.
> 
> 11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
> 
> 12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
> 
> 13. Don’t sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
> 
> 14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don’t push any issue, no matter how much you want to!
> 
> 15. If you’re in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
> 
> 16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that “they (the wayward partner)” are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…without them!
> 
> 17. Don’t be nasty, angry or even cold – Just pull yourself back. Don’t always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you’re missing.
> 
> 18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self-assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
> 
> 19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
> 
> 20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control. YOURSELF!
> 
> 21. Don’t be overly enthusiastic.
> 
> 22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
> 
> 23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Hear what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
> 
> 24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
> 
> 25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
> 
> 26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
> 
> 27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
> 
> 28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
> 
> 29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It’s not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don’t care.
> 
> 30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
> 
> 31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It “ain’t over till it’s over!”
> 
> 32. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
> 
> 33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don’t work out with the affair partner.


Excellent advice. I'm remembering this.


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## john117

jld said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I think you are going to find you are much happier without him around, OP. Leaving will probably turn out to be the best gift he ever gave you, even if it does not seem that way right now.
> 
> File and insist on everything you and the kids are legally entitled to.
> 
> Good job on working full time and focusing on your kids, btw. Your kids will not forget your devotion to them. They know who has their back.


In other words, focus on everything but your husband, and when the point of no return comes and passes and you can't undo the damage caused by years of neglect, file for divorce first and take him to the cleaners.

Not sure there is a good outcome regardless so... At least some counseling would be in order to work out why all this happened in the hope some closure takes place.


----------



## scaredwifeof4

Thanks all. I am the OP. I do love him or I wouldn't even be writing this. As far as why it took until now, it was my wake up call a few months ago. Now what I don't understand is the more I've changed and stop conflict and allow him time alone without complaint etc. the worse this got. After the bad fight he was trying and then it seemed after our night away and awkward sex he changed and feels it makes sense to consider leaving. He says he hasn't decided yet and no plans. He did say he wouldn't make decisions while things at work are so crazy. He won't agree to actually "trying" to open his heart though and that scares me. Does he need time. He said it took him a long time to get to this place and I need to understand that. 

I've tried to hug him and he said it feels forced. I have laid next to him while he's sleeping. He knows and hasn't pushed me away. However, is this being too smoothing. I don't know how to act and what to do. I am working on myself bought new clothes and makeup. Will he notice? Can the attraction come back? We have such a great family and so much history. I honestly don't believe we are in this place. 

Is he scared to let down the huge guard he's built up? 
I appreciate all the comments but please understand how hurt I am and how scared I am to lose him. I am not ready to do anything but fight for this marriage. 

Please also understand that the lack of sex became a bad cycle with us both. He stopped and I didn't try and wanted to and the. He would want to but I wouldn't. It was hard. We have kids with special needs no support network I work all the time I clean I cook I do yard work I shop I cart kids. I was so exhausted. Now we are getting to a place of calm with the kids as they are nearly teens and less needy. I know it doesn't make it right but now is the time we have to finally reconnect. 

Please comment if you believe I can fix this and any advice is appreciated. Please note, he hasn't said he's decided to leave. He is thinking about it. Is there a difference?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## farsidejunky

This seems to be common with families with special needs children.

Frankly, it has to be exhausting.

First off, what are his household responsibilities? It sounds like you work, take care of the kids, and take care of the house. Am I misreading that? Because it sounds as though he is not pulling his weight.

Second, neglecting your spouse is one of the best ways to end a marriage. I can't fathom why it took him considering leaving to wake you up to this fact. Would you have taken him for granted forever?

Third, and the point that is going to drive all of this home. Why now? I smell a rat. I suspect there is someone else he at least has his eye on. 

If there is someone else, all the affection in the world will not matter as you will be competing with shiny and new versus someone who showed him for years that his needs never really mattered.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## john117

There's a bit of a game changer for having special needs kids - there's no winner in this other than keeping the family together. 

There are some lingering questions of why to have 4 children to begin with - if it was your idea vs his, etc. 

At this point I would offer my best car dealer advise and ask "what would it take to stay" in the sense that if he walks away he's financially toast. You need to both go to some serious marriage counseling to unravel what has gone by... Does it feel awkward? Yea. As it should. Hopefully both your and his self preservation neurons will work when needed and you'll agree.


----------



## Marduk

scaredwifeof4 said:


> Thanks all. I am the OP. I do love him or I wouldn't even be writing this. As far as why it took until now, it was my wake up call a few months ago. Now what I don't understand is the more I've changed and stop conflict and allow him time alone without complaint etc. the worse this got. After the bad fight he was trying and then it seemed after our night away and awkward sex he changed and feels it makes sense to consider leaving. He says he hasn't decided yet and no plans. He did say he wouldn't make decisions while things at work are so crazy. He won't agree to actually "trying" to open his heart though and that scares me. Does he need time. He said it took him a long time to get to this place and I need to understand that.
> 
> I've tried to hug him and he said it feels forced. I have laid next to him while he's sleeping. He knows and hasn't pushed me away. However, is this being too smoothing. I don't know how to act and what to do. I am working on myself bought new clothes and makeup. Will he notice? Can the attraction come back? We have such a great family and so much history. I honestly don't believe we are in this place.
> 
> Is he scared to let down the huge guard he's built up?
> I appreciate all the comments but please understand how hurt I am and how scared I am to lose him. I am not ready to do anything but fight for this marriage.
> 
> Please also understand that the lack of sex became a bad cycle with us both. He stopped and I didn't try and wanted to and the. He would want to but I wouldn't. It was hard. We have kids with special needs no support network I work all the time I clean I cook I do yard work I shop I cart kids. I was so exhausted. Now we are getting to a place of calm with the kids as they are nearly teens and less needy. I know it doesn't make it right but now is the time we have to finally reconnect.
> 
> Please comment if you believe I can fix this and any advice is appreciated. Please note, he hasn't said he's decided to leave. He is thinking about it. Is there a difference?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sorry, but I don't believe one word of this.

I just think you're afraid of him leaving, and want to do just enough to have him stay.

And I think odds are high he's either found someone else, or wants to.

Your marriage is a shell. One that you were happy to have, because it got you what you wanted, until he didn't want it any more.

Listen, I'm just some random guy on the Internet. But if I don't believe you, why should he? It took him YEARS to get here. 

You need some brutal self-honesty and introspection. I do not think you had an epiphany. I do not think you love your husband. I think you are afraid.


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## soccermom2three

When I was doing all the cooking, cleaning, child rearing AND working full time, I didn't want to have sex with my husband either. Just cause a guy is working and brings home a paycheck doesn't make him entitled to sex. Wouldn't he be working anyway if he was single?

If you're going to be married you have to put some effort in it. OP stated that her husband is selfish, sounds like he only cares about himself.


----------



## Marduk

soccermom2three said:


> When I was doing all the cooking, cleaning, child rearing AND working full time, I didn't want to have sex with my husband either. Just cause a guy is working and brings home a paycheck doesn't make him entitled to sex. Wouldn't he be working anyway if he was single?


Oh, I don't think he loves her, either.


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## chillymorn

soccermom2three said:


> When I was doing all the cooking, cleaning, child rearing AND working full time, I didn't want to have sex with my husband either. Just cause a guy is working and brings home a paycheck doesn't make him entitled to sex. Wouldn't he be working anyway if he was single?
> 
> If you're going to be married you have to put some effort in it. OP stated that her husband is selfish, sounds like he only cares about himself.


two sides to a story.

everybody thinks there doing all the work. when in reality its just not true.

sex once a year!!!!!! yea that make you feel like doing extra work.

most times the truth lies in the middle.


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## john117

soccermom2three said:


> When I was doing all the cooking, cleaning, child rearing AND working full time, I didn't want to have sex with my husband either. Just cause a guy is working and brings home a paycheck doesn't make him entitled to sex. Wouldn't he be working anyway if he was single?
> 
> If you're going to be married you have to put some effort in it. OP stated that her husband is selfish, sounds like he only cares about himself.


Sex once a year regardless of situation is basically a spouse check out / spouse walk away / EA / PA Petri dish. 

People talk about things with their partner, if they have one left. 

We don't know whose idea was it to have 4 kids to begin with, work from home, and what health issues or finances are involved. As with another celebrated TAM case that went nowhere (autism mom) this isn't the time to shut down communications and wait for him to notice.


----------



## Mr. Nail

I've been where he is. I think he is doing the 180 himself. I have felt that sex was the trap keeping me in a dead relationship. It really doesn't matter how justified you are in committing a sexless marriage. Sexlessness will still kill it. Sure you can feel good about it because he was a bleepitty bleep bleep so and so and forced you into denying him, but in the end you were a full partner in this disaster.

I'm going to toss something out there because it is on my mind. It may have nothing to do with your situation. Last year Mrs Nail and I started from where you are and took some small steps one at a time, and are in a much better place now. But there are still Days that the long walk beckons. About October of last year I said to her, I have planed all of our get aways this year. For my Birthday or Christmas this year I would like you to plan a get away for me. It is May 11th today In 2 weeks our youngest kid graduates from High School. Camping season starts. I'm still waiting. With No hope.

She doesn't care enough about my needs or my happiness enough to plan a weekend. (at least you can do that KUDOS) How am I supposed to believe all of the cuddles and touches when she withholds the things I want, and only gives the things she wants? How can my Heart believe that it is real? Every week she proves to me how worthless I am to her. All I have to do is look at the calendar. 

Your husband knows that if he has sex with you regularly he will forget all of the years of pain. It will stop being awkward. The relationship will heal. But he doesn't want to believe that you really care. Some of the wounded men here also don't believe.

Would you do the 30 day challenge with him? (sex every day for 30 consecutive days) Would you step that far out of your obvious comfort level? I think it has a better chance of resetting your relationship than the 180. You may have to take extraordinary measures for the first week. 

-- Staring at the calendar still waiting


----------



## WorkingOnMe

soccermom2three said:


> When I was doing all the cooking, cleaning, child rearing AND working full time, I didn't want to have sex with my husband either. Just cause a guy is working and brings home a paycheck doesn't make him entitled to sex. Wouldn't he be working anyway if he was single?
> 
> If you're going to be married you have to put some effort in it. OP stated that her husband is selfish, sounds like he only cares about himself.




Everyone is free to make their own choices of course, and you were free to do this. But you can't really blame a guy if he decides that he wants to simply walk away from a situation like that.


----------



## samyeagar

Granted, my ex wife is diagnosed NPD, so that changes things a bit, but I was completely emotionally detached from her the better part of a decade before we divorced. I made the mistake of staying for the kids until it got to the point where even that wasn't enough for me to want to stay. The last four years, the divorce was imminent, it was only a question of when I was going to do it, and there was absolutely nothing she could have done to fix it. I was done.

As to the possibility of an affair...as counter intuitive as this may sound...him being in an affair may very well be the best hope of saving this marriage, because it gives something he could wake up from and return to the marriage. In my case, there was no affair, physical or emotional. I was not in any kind of fog...completely clear and sound mind and saw her and the marriage for what it was...something and someone I no longer wanted any part of.


----------



## Marduk

Mr. Nail said:


> I've been where he is. I think he is doing the 180 himself. I have felt that sex was the trap keeping me in a dead relationship. It really doesn't matter how justified you are in committing a sexless marriage. Sexlessness will still kill it. Sure you can feel good about it because he was a bleepitty bleep bleep so and so and forced you into denying him, but in the end you were a full partner in this disaster.
> 
> I'm going to toss something out there because it is on my mind. It may have nothing to do with your situation. Last year Mrs Nail and I started from where you are and took some small steps one at a time, and are in a much better place now. But there are still Days that the long walk beckons. About October of last year I said to her, I have planed all of our get aways this year. For my Birthday or Christmas this year I would like you to plan a get away for me. It is May 11th today In 2 weeks our youngest kid graduates from High School. Camping season starts. I'm still waiting. With No hope.
> 
> She doesn't care enough about my needs or my happiness enough to plan a weekend. (at least you can do that KUDOS) How am I supposed to believe all of the cuddles and touches when she withholds the things I want, and only gives the things she wants? How can my Heart believe that it is real? Every week she proves to me how worthless I am to her. All I have to do is look at the calendar.
> 
> Your husband knows that if he has sex with you regularly he will forget all of the years of pain. It will stop being awkward. The relationship will heal. But he doesn't want to believe that you really care. Some of the wounded men here also don't believe.
> 
> Would you do the 30 day challenge with him? (sex every day for 30 consecutive days) Would you step that far out of your obvious comfort level? I think it has a better chance of resetting your relationship than the 180. You may have to take extraordinary measures for the first week.
> 
> -- Staring at the calendar still waiting


Insightful.

And sad. I'm sorry, brother.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

samyeagar said:


> Granted, my ex wife is diagnosed NPD, so that changes things a bit, but I was completely emotionally detached from her the better part of a decade before we divorced. I made the mistake of staying for the kids until it got to the point where even that wasn't enough for me to want to stay. The last four years, the divorce was imminent, *it was only a question of when I was going to do it, and there was absolutely nothing she could have done to fix it. I was done.
> *
> As to the possibility of an affair...as counter intuitive as this may sound...him being in an affair may very well be the best hope of saving this marriage, because it gives something he could wake up from and return to the marriage. In my case, there was no affair, physical or emotional. I was not in any kind of fog...*completely clear and sound mind and saw her and the marriage for what it was...something and someone I no longer wanted any part of.*


I have been here as well. Nothing in the world could have made me stay.


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## john117

I thought of the 30 day challenge but the odds of me being alive in 2046 to complete it are kind of slim


----------



## MEM2020

Scared,

First - I'm not going to call you by your screen name again. Instead, I'm going to call you brave wife, because you are stepping up and trying to make it work. 

If you want - I'll try and take you through some steps to reconnect. 

He hasn't left - so - maybe this is workable.





scaredwifeof4 said:


> Thanks all. I am the OP. I do love him or I wouldn't even be writing this. As far as why it took until now, it was my wake up call a few months ago. Now what I don't understand is the more I've changed and stop conflict and allow him time alone without complaint etc. the worse this got. After the bad fight he was trying and then it seemed after our night away and awkward sex he changed and feels it makes sense to consider leaving. He says he hasn't decided yet and no plans. He did say he wouldn't make decisions while things at work are so crazy. He won't agree to actually "trying" to open his heart though and that scares me. Does he need time. He said it took him a long time to get to this place and I need to understand that.
> 
> I've tried to hug him and he said it feels forced. I have laid next to him while he's sleeping. He knows and hasn't pushed me away. However, is this being too smoothing. I don't know how to act and what to do. I am working on myself bought new clothes and makeup. Will he notice? Can the attraction come back? We have such a great family and so much history. I honestly don't believe we are in this place.
> 
> Is he scared to let down the huge guard he's built up?
> I appreciate all the comments but please understand how hurt I am and how scared I am to lose him. I am not ready to do anything but fight for this marriage.
> 
> Please also understand that the lack of sex became a bad cycle with us both. He stopped and I didn't try and wanted to and the. He would want to but I wouldn't. It was hard. We have kids with special needs no support network I work all the time I clean I cook I do yard work I shop I cart kids. I was so exhausted. Now we are getting to a place of calm with the kids as they are nearly teens and less needy. I know it doesn't make it right but now is the time we have to finally reconnect.
> 
> Please comment if you believe I can fix this and any advice is appreciated. Please note, he hasn't said he's decided to leave. He is thinking about it. Is there a difference?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Sorry I can't get to the last page so I don't know the current status, but...

I'd bet dollars to donuts your man is deeply hurt. Though you think he didn't initiate sex often, I bet he already knew enough NOT to initiate because he was already being rejected. No one wants starfish or obligation sex. When you devote all your energy to house and kids and then wear sweats, no makeup and are exhausted at the end of the day - wait for it... YOU'VE already clearly stated that your priorities don't include him.

I know some TAM women will try to argue about helping out, etc. but TAM veterans will see more clearly that YOUR priorities of a clean house and properly raised kids are not necessarily HIS. Many men would say "never clean house or do laundry again" and bring in an AuPair and cleaning ladies. But many women WANT to play that caregiver role. My point is that even those assumptions - that the housework is "important" - could be wrong.

This requires a lot of talking and listening and driving out what you both want. I see you wanting financial support more than him as a person - sorry but I haven't heard a bunch of glowing comments about how wonderful he is; how much you love this or that about him; how thinking about him when you're stressed makes you feel better and calms you down... that is what you would be saying if you were afraid of losing him as a person.

Good luck. It might be salvageable, but it will require 100% focus on him and the marriage.


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## scaredwifeof4

Yes! Please help me. Thank you for understanding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## scaredwifeof4

Yes! Please help me. Thank you for understanding

And for the poster wondering why I haven't talked about why I love him. I'm sorry there is lots to share and I guess I figured the fact I'm trying to save this should be obvious I love this man more than anything. He is the only person that truly knows me and loves (or used to) love me for me. He is a great dad and he is a wonderful man. I want to be by his side for the rest of my life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samyeagar

scaredwifeof4 said:


> Yes! Please help me. Thank you for understanding
> 
> And for the poster wondering why I haven't talked about why I love him. I'm sorry there is lots to share and I guess I figured the fact I'm trying to save this should be obvious I love this man more than anything. He is the only person that truly knows me and loves (or used to) love me for me. He is a great dad and he is a wonderful man. I want to be by his side for the rest of my life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What one does not say is often just as, if not more telling than what they do say.

There is obviously a disconnect between you and your husband. The fact that you are trying to save your marriage , while obvious to you that it is out of love, but whether they admit it or not, there are many reasons people try to save their marriages that have nothing to do with love. Your husband may be feeling the way those who have asked about you loving him feel...that you really have not said much to lead anyone here to believe that you do love him, and that you may have other reasons for wanting to save the marriage.

In my experience with my ex wife, the sex stopped, and virtually all physical contact felt awkward because well...I didn't like her. I didn't like her because of her systematic poor treatment of me over an extended period of time.


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## MEM2020

BraveWife,

You got dealt a tough hand. So now the goal is to patiently try to get where you want to be. 

The most valuable thing you can do is work towards acceptance. By that I mean accept that your H may leave, and if he does you will be ok. Once you accept that everything is going to be ok with or without him, much of your fear and anxiety will go away. 

That is CRITICAL because anxiety is somewhat contagious. When you are anxious, he feels a bit anxious. That is a recipe for him pulling away from you. Not stepping towards you. 

Exercise is your friend. Make time to work out.

Will I don't think you should chase him. I DO think you should make as much physical contact with him as seems comfortable for him. 

Don't avoid saying what is true to try and keep him. 

He is likely somewhat hurt and angry that the whole sex thing - has nothing to do with you loving him and everything to do with you wanting to avoid a divorce. 

You can try and get him to talk but make it easy. Like - ask him to tell you one thing every day that is true. And then - when he does - don't get defensive - don't argue - don't justify - just accept it. 

It's ok to say sorry - better to say: I want to spend the rest of my life, showing that you ARE important to me. 

As for the folks suggesting a sexual shock treatment - every day for a month - I don't think it is a great idea. 

That said - when you are lying next to each other in bed - if he seems relaxed - gently rub the inside of his thigh - skin to skin. Mother Nature is powerful. Let her be your friend. 

Now - this next bit - he won't say this - might not even be conscious of it - but it is very powerful. 

If you seem unfraid - he will view your overtures as driven by love. 

If he senses your fear - those same overtures will seem driven by self preservation. 

A lack of fear means - your behavior really is about HIM.

The presence of fear - makes your behavior seem all about YOU. 

Subtract the fear, and you will be amazed the stuff comes out of your mouth. 

Things like: I do love you. Absolutely want to grow old with you. That said, if you have reached the point of no return, I accept that. And I hope you find someone who will love you as much as I do. 

--------





scaredwifeof4 said:


> Yes! Please help me. Thank you for understanding
> 
> And for the poster wondering why I haven't talked about why I love him. I'm sorry there is lots to share and I guess I figured the fact I'm trying to save this should be obvious I love this man more than anything. He is the only person that truly knows me and loves (or used to) love me for me. He is a great dad and he is a wonderful man. I want to be by his side for the rest of my life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bankshot1993

Scared:
I will share with you a little of my story, why? Because I am the man thinking of leaving, I'm the man who after 30 years with my wife feels like your husband does.

For me it started long ago, around 6 or 7 years ago. One day I realized that we were no longer a couple. We were merely roommates coexisting in the same house. There was no connection anymore, no passion, no emotion just cohabitation.

I don't blame her for that, it took both of us in our complacency set adrift on autopilot to bring us to the point that we were at. I didn't blame her but I didn't like where we were either and I knew it was up to me to do something about. I went on a campaign of sorts, I was determined to be attentive, romantic, focused and most importantly present in our dealing with each other.

Unfortunately it was all for not. I will admit that in some ways it was effective. We started being physical a little more often and she did appreciate the attention, but after 2 years I realized that nothing tangible had changed. I started to look deeper and realized there were more issues that I had first understood, not the least of which was communication.

As I started digging deeper I soon began to understand that I didn't really like who my wife had turned into. We were high school sweethearts and while I thought she was everything I could ever want back then, she had turned into someone I would never have been interested in now. She had turned into a bitter angry person that flew off the handle at everything, she was judgemental, bossy and controlling. The worst part was that she was nice to me. Why is that the worst part? Because I would see this Jekyll and Hyde mood swing a hundred times a day and the whole time I'm watching it and I'm wondering to myself, "why am I with this person".

I'm a pretty happy go lucky kind of guy, don't sweat the small stuff, life is to short to spend angry kind of philosophy. So it really bothered me constantly answering the questions, What is she so angry about, who Peed in her corn flakes, what's her problem. Most of the time I was fielding these questions from our own 2 sons.

Of course being a typical guy I internalized it and decided if she's that miserable it must be because she hates her life and of course with me being as big a part of it as I am, I must be at fault. There were other factors at play that helped to lead me to this conclusion like she wouldn't confide in me, our physical relationship was not very good and it was never very adventurous but her sex life before me was very adventurous, Our communication was very guarded with each other, we had zero interests in common. We were basically living 2 separate lives.

I say all this because you talk about new clothes and make up. These things are not what is going to give you a new connection. Trust me I know. My wife put on a lot of weight over the years but that isn't what is driving me away, what is driving me away is that I don't feel like I matter to her. I'm just filling a role in her life and If it weren't me than it would be somebody else. I'm her husband, she should be able to tell me things that she would never tell anybody else but she won't, she should do things with me that she's never done with anybody else, but she won't. In the end I just feel expendable.

I will admit a big part of my feelings started when our sex life took a nose dive. That in itself I could have handled but when I realized we lacked an emotional connection as well as a physical one I came to the realization that I didn't matter to her and that was tough to face. We've been trying to work on it but honestly I feel a little of what your husband feels, I understand the "forced" feeling that he is talking about. Like @TheTruthHurts said, nobody likes duty sex and its true, that was the wedge that kept driving us apart further because I really started to resent her for not wanting me. She made me feel like I was some kind of hideous troll and having sex with me was like some kind of self imposed punishment.

We are still together but I don't know if the damage will ever be undone. We've talked, I've expressed myself and why I feel the way that I do. I've told her that I've had a lot of thoughts about leaving. She says she doesn't want me to and wants to work on us but I will never know if the changes are because she genuinely wants to change or if she's just gotten to be a better actor because I'm emotionally blackmailing her.


----------



## Mr. Nail

Don't worry MEM, she has no intention of following that advice. Either she can't bear the rejection it would take to get it started, or it is just way too far out of her comfort zone. Going from 1/365 to 1/1 is almost impossible. Mostly the question was to see what the limit of her desire was. I have my answer.

Usually when a person says they love someone more than anything they mean, anything except . . .


----------



## JohnA

I agree the 180 is the wrong way to go at this point. 

I agree the pick e dance is not helpful. 

I think the question of why you want to save this marriage is a great one. 

Have you read this link Home | The 5 Love Languages® | Improving Millions of Relationships? One Language at a Time.


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## scaredwifeof4

My husband is refusing Sex right now so not my choice. Not all my fault regardless of what you think you know bout me and what you had experienced. Thanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MEM2020

Nail,
All great marriages have a strong 'Gift of the Magi' flavor to them. 

Two people - each able to focus more on being generous with the other - than themselves. 

While I do have some general guidelines for 'healthy rules of engagement' for sex, it's also true that those guidelines are predicated on BOTH folks being at least as concerned for each other's welfare as their own. 

Anecdotally - it seems that - special needs children - emotionally drain their mothers far more than their fathers. 






Mr. Nail said:


> Don't worry MEM, she has no intention of following that advice. Either she can't bear the rejection it would take to get it started, or it is just way too far out of her comfort zone. Going from 1/365 to 1/1 is almost impossible. Mostly the question was to see what the limit of her desire was. I have my answer.
> 
> Usually when a person says they love someone more than anything they mean, anything except . . .


----------



## 3Xnocharm

bankshot1993 said:


> We are still together but I don't know if the damage will ever be undone. We've talked, I've expressed myself and why I feel the way that I do. I've told her that I've had a lot of thoughts about leaving. She says she doesn't want me to and wants to work on us but I will never know if the changes are because she genuinely wants to change or if she's just gotten to be a better actor because I'm emotionally blackmailing her.


Bank, I have to ask WHY you are still together? This sounds miserable to me.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

scaredwifeof4 said:


> My husband is refusing Sex right now so not my choice. Not all my fault regardless of what you think you know bout me and what you had experienced. Thanks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If this defensiveness and dismissiveness is what you display to your husband then that could be another part of the problem.


----------



## zookeeper

If he is refusing sex, he is willfully refusing to reconnect with you. He simply doesn't want to try.

Doesn't matter whose at fault for what, I think you are trying to perform CPR on a body with the head cut off.


----------



## MEM2020

BraveWife,

Folks who have been on the receiving end of an extreme level of long term sexual rejection - tend to be angry and bitter. 

They are generally going to have a harsh tone with you. If it gets to be too much PM me, and I will ask folks to ease up. 






scaredwifeof4 said:


> My husband is refusing Sex right now so not my choice. Not all my fault regardless of what you think you know bout me and what you had experienced. Thanks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Zanne

.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

MEM11363 said:


> BraveWife,
> 
> Folks who have been on the receiving end of an extreme level of long term sexual rejection - tend to be angry and bitter.
> 
> They are generally going to have a harsh tone with you. If it gets to be too much PM me, and I will ask folks to ease up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> scaredwifeof4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My husband is refusing Sex right now so not my choice. Not all my fault regardless of what you think you know bout me and what you had experienced. Thanks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

Though tough - that is a voice that is valuable to hear. Your H most likely isn't saying these things to you out loud


----------



## Blondilocks

Scared Wife, have you sat down and thought about what it will mean if he does leave? You will no longer have a loving husband; you don't now. You will no longer have a help-mate; you don't now. You will no longer enjoy intimate relations; you don't now.

Surely, all he has to do is look around and view the house, the yard and 4 special needs children to understand that he has not been pulling his share and you have every right to be exhausted. I don't know of a single woman who wants to have sex when they are exhausted. It's apparent he thinks he's entitled to 'his time', but what does he think you are entitled to? A life of unending drudgery?

This man does not appreciate everything you do and does not appreciate you. I'd be thinking twice before professing undying love for a user.

As for not putting him first and spreading your legs whenever he whistles, you have four (4) special needs children. Enough said.


----------



## zookeeper

Blondilocks said:


> Scared Wife, have you sat down and thought about what it will mean if he does leave? You will no longer have a loving husband; you don't now. You will no longer have a help-mate; you don't now. You will no longer enjoy intimate relations; you don't now.
> 
> Surely, all he has to do is look around and view the house, the yard and 4 special needs children to understand that he has not been pulling his share and you have every right to be exhausted. I don't know of a single woman who wants to have sex when they are exhausted. It's apparent he thinks he's entitled to 'his time', but what does he think you are entitled to? A life of unending drudgery?
> 
> This man does not appreciate everything you do and does not appreciate you. I'd be thinking twice before professing undying love for a user.
> 
> As for not putting him first and spreading your legs whenever he whistles, you have four (4) special needs children. Enough said.


There's a world of middle ground between once every July 4th and "every time he whistles." Just because they lived one extreme does not mean he was demanding the other.


----------



## MattMatt

scaredwifeof4 said:


> Hi,
> I am a mom of 4 and my husband is 43. We have had a rocky time but also good times in last 16 yrs. Our kids are very challenging and we've gone through some financial disappointments. I admit I was SO busy with kids and 90% of running household that it didn't leave time to focus on marriage or sex. He tried to tell me at times but it has been a brewing for awhile.
> 
> In March, we had a blow up and I suggested he would be better off leaving. This wasn't what I wanted. It was just me needing to get a reaction. For the past 6-12 months he has been so distance, angry with the kids and me and doing more things for his own enjoyment regardless of what the rest of the family needs (fishing more, going to listen to bands, other hobbies.) That's all well and good but with the issues and distance just made things worse.
> So during this blow up he said he doesn't think we have good marriage and he is so hurt by all that we've been through and the lack of intimacy. I asked he if he was leaving and he said "I can't do that."
> 
> So honestly and truly this was the WAKE UP call I needed. My heart opened and I see him and the hurt he has. I've changed the way I respond to him and the way I feel about his time he needs. I even got a babysitter so he and I could go away for the night for anniversary. It felt weird to have the time together and lots of silence but I thought we were on the right track. We had sex and I thought it was good.... We came home and he went away for work travel and when he came back I asked if why he isn't returning my affections etc. and he said it feels "ackward" and forced between us. He said the sex was phyiscally good but no emotion for him. He said going away was "nice" but just doesn't feel right.
> 
> Fast forward to a few days ago, I pushed him on why we haven't scheduled a family vacation yet. He finally said he is "thinking of leaving." He said he hasn't made any decisions yet but he's been thinking of it for awhile. This is a man who came from a divorce family who swore he'd never do that to his kids like his dad did. Now he's telling me that the only difference in being divorced is not being here to tuck kids in at night, sersioulsy!!!!
> It will kill our kids who have anxiety issues as it is, It will CRUSH us financially, it will kill me. We are active in the community, all of my friends are his too. I don't have any idea how to fix this.
> 
> He said he loves me but not in love. That he doesn't feel he can be happy. He also said we shouldn't have sex because it will confuse things. He won't go to counseling with me and he won't even commit to opening his heart and giving us a chance. I've asked him how likely he is go leave and he said he doesn't know. He hasn't made plans but he's considering it now.
> 
> We haven't fought for a few months, we talk now better than we used to but he finds all sorts of excuses not to do things together as a family. He swears there is no affair and that he hasn't talked to anyone about this situation.
> 
> He said the big blow up we had a few months ago made he start thinking maybe leaving was an option and then when we went away and it was so "awkward" then he sees maybe this is the only way.
> 
> Please help me. What can I do to stop this disaster. I have no interest in losing this man. Is it likely he will leave? What things can I do to prevent it. I initially begged and pleaded and have tried to make physical contact. I'm pretty sure this is just making it all worse and he isn't attracted to me. I can't eat, can't sleep and barely able to work.
> 
> Thank you in advance.


So, about 8 to 9 weeks ago you told him to leave.

Basically telling him that you considered the marriage to be over.

Why are you surprised that he took you at your word? :scratchhead:

Sorry, but this is a mess. Not sure how you can deal with it, if he doesn't agree to counselling. 

Any possibility for intervention by a pastor or a vicar, priest, etc? His folks?


----------



## john117

zookeeper said:


> There's a world of middle ground between once every July 4th and "every time he whistles." Just because they lived one extreme does not mean he was demanding the other.


You would be surprised to hear of cases where what you wrote, translated as "my way or the highway" applies. To some people there's no middle ground...


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

There are 2 sides to this story, and I don't think the lack of intimacy is exclusively the fault of the OP. The most salient point is that they have more than one child with special needs. Unfortunately, it appears that the OP is shouldering 90% or more of the responsibility of keeping the household running plus working full time. The H is just working full time but seems to be very particular about his free time. Evidently, he got a fair amount of free time for a number of years. I can see how a wife would check out on her H if she had to shoulder the majority of the burden with no end in site. But even at at that, I recall the OP saying that at some point the intimacy dying off was more of a mutual thing than being squarely on her. Granted, we don't hear his side and cannot directly ask him how much effort he contributed to the household running. 

Bottom line is communication is needed. Neither did it for many years and the marriage suffered. You have to run the household like a team if you have a special needs kid. My wife and I have one, yet our marriage is pretty rock solid. It's because of open and honest communication, supporting each other and taking time out for ourselves. The kids can do chores around the house. Intimacy is an outcome of the things we do to keep the marriage strong. People think intimacy issues in and of themselves are the root causes of problems. Unless there is an asexual spouse in the picture - which I think is a rare occurrence - the intimacy problem is symptom of an underlying root cause(s).


----------



## Marc878

Detached was a way of life and has become the norm. Trying to become intimate again will seem awkward/forced because it is. 

Those boundaries were built over time and if this can be fixed will take awhile. Reinforce some closeness. Touching, setting close, hugs over time may bring it back. A half azzed attempt won't work. This developed over time and the fix has to be maintained until he reciprocates. There'll probably be rejection up front but at this point persistence is needed. 

What do you have to lose? He's still there for now.


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## Satya

Scared, why don't you invite your husband here? It sounds like you have nothing left to lose at this point but could have something to gain.


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## scaredwifeof4

Thanks, these ideas are helpful. He just seems totally shut down. Can this happen and still get him reconcile? I try as laying my hand on his at at night. Last night he got up and moved. This was 4am and of course I was laying awake. I asked him if that bothered him and he said "I just want to sleep it's 4am"to me that means yes it others him. Am I reading too much into him not wanting to talk about anything right now. Is it best to give him time or keep trying? We have good coversation about different things right now and no arguments. Things are relaxed with the kids ages 9-14 right now. 

I told him I wanted to talk to our pastor and he said no. He didn't want to let anyone we know aware of all this. He didn't think he could face the pastor if she knew regardless of what he decides to do he said. I guess I don't understand because he will have lots of people to face about this. 

So my question is,how much do I press? How long can this process take?Do I just sit and wait will he sits or the fence. He won't talk about us, won't touch, seems very cold around me. Do men possibly wake up and want to reconcile? How can I know what he is thinking. It's like the better things got with us and calming and talking and not arguing the more distant and shut down he went. Is he scared? Is he not sure how to proceed or does he just not want too? He says he loves me but not in love. I talked to a therapist and she said those feelings can just get buried and we need to reconnect. I still think he owes it to himself and to all of us to give this a shot so there are no regrets. 

I appreciate the positive comments. It is so hard to hear the negative and I am very vulnerable right now so I just can't handle that. Thank you all for understanding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## john117

Start thinking from his point of view...

- what financial obligations does he have?
- if your state has fault divorce, who gets to benefit/lose?
- what emotional attachment does he have with the children?
- what's your family court system view on such parents?

A lot of those can be answered with a lawyer chat. Which, if he keeps thinking he wants out, he may or may not have done.


----------



## farsidejunky

scaredwifeof4 said:


> Thanks, these ideas are helpful. He just seems totally shut down. Can this happen and still get him reconcile? I try as laying my hand on his at at night. Last night he got up and moved. This was 4am and of course I was laying awake. I asked him if that bothered him and he said "I just want to sleep it's 4am"to me that means yes it others him. Am I reading too much into him not wanting to talk about anything right now. Is it best to give him time or keep trying? We have good coversation about different things right now and no arguments. Things are relaxed with the kids ages 9-14 right now.
> 
> I told him I wanted to talk to our pastor and he said no. He didn't want to let anyone we know aware of all this. He didn't think he could face the pastor if she knew regardless of what he decides to do he said. I guess I don't understand because he will have lots of people to face about this.
> 
> So my question is,how much do I press? How long can this process take?Do I just sit and wait will he sits or the fence. He won't talk about us, won't touch, seems very cold around me. Do men possibly wake up and want to reconcile? How can I know what he is thinking. It's like the better things got with us and calming and talking and not arguing the more distant and shut down he went. Is he scared? Is he not sure how to proceed or does he just not want too? He says he loves me but not in love. I talked to a therapist and she said those feelings can just get buried and we need to reconnect. I still think he owes it to himself and to all of us to give this a shot so there are no regrets.
> 
> I appreciate the positive comments. It is so hard to hear the negative and I am very vulnerable right now so I just can't handle that. Thank you all for understanding.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



He does not get to decide who you need to go to for support.

Sorry, but I see that as a huge red flag.


----------



## jorgegene

scaredwifeof4 said:


> My husband is refusing Sex right now so not my choice. Not all my fault regardless of what you think you know bout me and what you had experienced. Thanks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


then, in order to understand and sympathize better with your plight, you need to explain more the genesis of the problems; degradation of the marriage. 

so far, you say you were so absorbed with the kid and running the house that you neglected your marriage. fair enough. but then you say it wasn't all your fault and that he was as much of the problem.
we need to know more about this.

this is important to discern whether this marriage is salvageable or not.


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## staarz21

He doesn't want to divorce, but he doesn't want to work on it? Sounds like he has a girlfriend to me. It wouldn't be completely shocking considering the circumstances. 

I get where you're coming from, though. My H has treated me like his personal assistant/maid/event coordinator/promotion motivator vs his W for 7 years now. I, like you, have little interest in sex with him anymore. It's hard to look at him that way. When we are getting along well and we are connecting, it's way easier. I can remember the man I married and I love that man. But when he's acting like a selfish jerk, it's such a turn off....I can't even... However, I have never gone that long without having sex. That doesn't help anything. The longest we've gone is 2 months and that included each one of us having a medical procedure that kept us from having sex for a week or more (mine was a week, H's was about 4 weeks - the rest of the time was rejection from him).

We are still actively trying to make it work, though. I tell him when he's walking all over me and being selfish - he reverts back every so often. This way he cannot misunderstand when I have an issue. He doesn't like to talk, but I can usually guess when he's unhappy, so I talk to him then. Yes, we fight. There have been a few times that the kids weren't home when we yelled at each other. But it's after those intense fights that we feel like we've made some progress. The key points here are communication. Maybe in your case, it is too late. Would that be so bad? 

He is totally disinterested. He won't even let you touch him....that's pretty bad. At present, my H and I are working together despite the resentment. It's hard, but if he isn't going to actively work on it - it's not going to work. Period.

This is the problem with your H, he won't go to counseling, he won't touch you, he won't have sex with you, he won't engage with you, he won't spend time together as a family. He is DONE. Leave him alone, but have one last conversation with him: Tell him he has to make a decision. If he's going to stay he has to work on it. Otherwise, he can leave. What's the point of you two living together if you're not going to work on the marriage?


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## 3Xnocharm

staarz21 said:


> This is the problem with your H, he won't go to counseling, he won't touch you, he won't have sex with you, he won't engage with you, he won't spend time together as a family. He is DONE. Leave him alone, but have one last conversation with him: Tell him he has to make a decision. If he's going to stay he has to work on it. Otherwise, he can leave. What's the point of you two living together if you're not going to work on the marriage?


:iagree:


----------



## bankshot1993

3Xnocharm said:


> Bank, I have to ask WHY you are still together? This sounds miserable to me.


its not entirely miserable, as I said she's fairly passive with me, its the rest of the world she is hostile with.

As far as why I've stayed, I don't honestly. fear of being alone, to old to start all over again, the financial impact would be huge but most of all every time I try to make a break I get sucked in by tears and promises that it will improve, sometimes it gets better for a while and then it drifts off back to what it was.

in the end I guess living with a roommate that you can get along with isn't all bad, I just long for the passion again. I'd even be OK if she got mad at me every now and then because then at least I would know there is still some fire there even if it is misplaced.


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## ThreeStrikes

Talk to a lawyer.

Find out how much child support you will be receiving, as well as spousal support.

Draw a line in the sand. Either he commits to repairing your marriage, with you, NOW, or you initiate a legal separation during which he moves out and begins paying child and spousal support.

Nice-ing him back is not going to work. Often times it takes drastic measures like this to "shock" a potential walkaway back to reality.

The question is: are you willing to lose your marriage, to save it?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

sapientia said:


> I told him I wanted to talk to our pastor and he said no...
> 
> 
> 
> I completely agree.


Ditto

Major red flag

What kind of snooping have you done?


----------



## scaredwifeof4

Thanks all. Well he told me tonight that he is indeed done and leaving. He can't stand me as doesn't love me. I basically make him sick. 

He is staying for the month until kids are done with school. He said he doesn't know if he can do it and has to have us draw up what this will look like on paper. 

I asked if he thought we could reconcile once he gets some needed space and he said it's possible. Either he will miss me and family or he will be relieved to be free. 

He said the years of note feeling love drove him to this and it's too far gone. There is no way the love will come back. I miss him so much already and don't know how to go one without him. I love him so much. 

He also said that when he leaves he wil still come back home and help with things I can't fix etc. still be around. He doesn't understand how hard that will be for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

marduk said:


> Why do you want him now when you clearly didn't for years?


Maybe he's been helping out with the yard work lately. 

He sounds like a lazy clod.


----------



## bandit.45

scaredwifeof4 said:


> He also said that when he leaves he wil still come back home and help with things I can't fix etc. still be around. He doesn't understand how hard that will be for me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He's lying. He wouldn't help you with yard work, why would he help with anything else? 

Maybe the reason you lost attraction for him was because he is a lazy child. 

Let him go. You will be better off.


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## scaredwifeof4

Also forgot to mention he said he would go see my counselor seperate of me net week. He is also open to considering a trial seperatiin with attempt to reconcile. 

As far as him coming back to help with things at home. I think it's more about him thinking he should still have access to the house and staying connected. I would think this is a bad idea because If he is to miss us he needs to feel the pain of missing is and being cut out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

I agree. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

scaredwifeof4 said:


> Also forgot to mention he said he would go see my counselor seperate of me net week. He is also open to considering a trial seperatiin with attempt to reconcile.
> 
> As far as him coming back to help with things at home. I think it's more about him thinking he should still have access to the house and staying connected. I would think this is a bad idea because If he is to miss us he needs to feel the pain of missing is and being cut out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell him if he separates, you want a legal separation. Don't let him run off and ruin your credit on some dumbass midlife-crisis spending spree.


----------



## Satya

scaredwifeof4 said:


> I asked if he thought we could reconcile once he gets some needed space and he said it's possible. Either he will miss me and family or he will be relieved to be free.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry, scared. Time apart is never good for truly healing a relationship imo. He may miss you, but the problems don't just fix themselves due to distance. It's in fact just easier for him to move on, and once he gets a taste of that life, he may not come back. 

As long as you're aware of the possibilities. I suggest you work on yourself to get busy with other things, so you can learn to let him go.


----------



## Satya

scaredwifeof4 said:


> He also said that when he leaves he wil still come back home and help with things I can't fix etc. still be around. He doesn't understand how hard that will be for me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'd suggest that you politely decline his offer. While he probably means well, I can pretty much guarantee that there will be a day he stops helping, and you'll be really hurt and shocked because you got used to him coming 'round. It creates a false sense of hope. You should learn to find other sources of help... Neighborhood kids for yard work and local people for home repair. Your town probably offers classes on basic repair. It could be fun and empowering for you.


----------



## aine

scaredwifeof4 said:


> Thanks all. Well he told me tonight that he is indeed done and leaving. He can't stand me as doesn't love me. I basically make him sick.
> 
> He is staying for the month until kids are done with school. He said he doesn't know if he can do it and has to have us draw up what this will look like on paper.
> 
> I asked if he thought we could reconcile once he gets some needed space and he said it's possible. Either he will miss me and family or he will be relieved to be free.
> 
> He said the years of note feeling love drove him to this and it's too far gone. There is no way the love will come back. I miss him so much already and don't know how to go one without him. I love him so much.
> 
> He also said that when he leaves he wil still come back home and help with things I can't fix etc. still be around. He doesn't understand how hard that will be for me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is his choice but you are playing by his rules, he wants out, so let him out but that includes no contact, no returning, no maintaining connection, give him what he wants do not sit waiting for him.

Go no contact, any contact is about the kids, finances, etc. He must make arrangements to come see the kids and you will be elsewhere. Be very clear. You have to take control back for yourself. I would suggest you tell all your family and friends - do not keep this quiet. Then go and see a lawyer and draw up a proper separation agreement which sets out the rules of engagement. Let him see that you too can make decisions and will not be playing to his tune.

He sounds like he is lazy and has neglected your needs for support, etc. You have definitely neglected his for sex, but a mature person would say lets get MC, lets see what is the problem and sort it out. He says he is past that, show him what it will be like without you in his life period.


----------



## scaredwifeof4

Thanks. Yes I agree no matter how much he is sickened by my precense the 17 yrs and the kids should be owed and attempt to truly work through this stuff. It's just not a mature way to leave. Do you think there is a mid life crisis thing going on?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

To be honest. There was one major flag to me that tells me he is cheating. The no sex so that his feelings dont get confused REALLY stood out to me as cheating. He could have another woman telling him to not have sex with you. I know there are a litany of reasons he may not want to have sex, but I would be gathering intel to rule in or rule out an affair independent of his feedback.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## john117

Depends on the magnitude of the emotional drought. After 25 decent and seven or eight horrible years I've thrown in the towel. 

The issue is the future more than the past. Even if my lab techs could create a magic potion that would repair our marriage I do not think either of us would trust the permanence of the relationship. 

My kids are in college and I'm counting down 12 months but there really is little either of us can do. I wish things were better but there really isn't much to work on.

If you can find common positive threads to pull on and he has an interest in reconciliation it could work.


----------



## Satya

I think it's a bit unfair to judge his sincerity or the possible influences on his behavior for doing what he chooses to do. We only have one perspective on this whole matter. Whether or not he's having an affair, he was clear with scared about how he feels at this moment and that he's detached/detaching, so I think she should put her focus on what SHE can do now, not wonder if he's having a MLC or has an affair partner. It'll just lead to paralysis analysis and distract her from her own focus.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

If it were me, I would want to know and would proceed accordingly.


----------



## Satya

Blossom Leigh said:


> If it were me, I would want to know and would proceed accordingly.


I understand Blossom. I guess what I'm saying is I think she should proceed with a plan regardless. She's not without information completely. She has it straight from his mouth.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Satya said:


> I understand Blossom. I guess what I'm saying is I think she should proceed with a plan regardless. She's not without information completely. She has it straight from his mouth.


I agree. I think she needs to focus on her and the kids and securing their future as priority #1 and in some states that would include knowing if he is in an affair or not. So, totally agree on progression.


----------



## scaredwifeof4

Over the past year he's been increasing angry and withdrawn with the kids and me. He also started taking up hobbies typically for younger people like bars with bands were the average age is probably 15 yrs younger than he is. He has increased his time for doing his thing and just checked out in kid responsibilities. He used to do a bit and over the past few months nothing. I have it all. 

I will do more digging on affair. I can't get into his phone. He carries it all the time now and I did ask him why last night. He still insists he isn't seeing anyone and the phone is the same as always. Any ideas how to get to his messages. I will need to track whereabouts better. It does help me in my state if he is in terms of what I get.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

@GusPolinski @weightlifter


----------



## farsidejunky

Withdrawn? Bars? Protecting his phone? needs "space"? Does not want you reaching out to clergy? 

Sorry, but I am absolutely convinced there is someone else.

Do you have access to the online phone billing records? It is the easiest thing to check. If so, look for frequently texted or called numbers. If I am right, it will be incredibly easy to spot.

Do this ASAP if you can.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

How was he with child care? I know he has neglected them over the last year, but did he participate in their mental and emotional development? How often does he help with the housework prior to his detachment? Does he complain that you do not spend quality time as a couple and not just sex? Like, does he want to go to the movies, does he want to know your inner thoughts, stuff like that. Because sex is only one aspect of a relationship and is limited where an emotional, communicative relationship says more about the individual.

I am curious with the answers.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

scaredwifeof4 said:


> Also forgot to mention he said he would go see my counselor seperate of me net week. He is also open to considering a trial seperatiin with attempt to reconcile.
> 
> *As far as him coming back to help with things at home.* I think it's more about him thinking he should still have access to the house and staying connected. I would think this is a bad idea because If he is to miss us he needs to feel the pain of missing is and being cut out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, you need to NOT allow this. Once you are divorced, that's it. He will have ZERO business coming around the house other than to pick up or drop off kids. You will never, ever have closure that way. YOU have control over that so make sure you put your foot down firmly and tell him NO.


----------



## Tron

scaredwifeof4 said:


> He carries it all the time now and I did ask him why last night. He still insists he isn't seeing anyone and the phone is the same as always. Any ideas how to get to his messages. I will need to track whereabouts better. It does help me in my state if he is in terms of what I get.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Newsflash! Cheaters lie.

10 years without intimacy. Won't have sex with you now. Protecting his phone. Travelling. Hanging out at bars. Angry with you and the kids all the time. 

He has found someone else, I'd bet money on it.

Dig! If it helps you in the divorce in your state then you absolutely need to have that information.


----------



## scaredwifeof4

I can't get to his phone records since it's through his work. What a nightmare. I can't crack the password. I went through vehicle and wallet Found nothing. Should I press him on this and if he's doing something or try to catch him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Do not say anything else to him about it. Your sleuthing needs to be completely private, but needs to be done. Total stealth mode.


----------



## scaredwifeof4

He's never been very involved in all the doctors school etc. that was all me and trying to get him to help make decisions was always hard. It ended up on me all the time. I am responsible for doctors school meds homework carting them to activities etc. he I'll help when asked but it's never been just pitching in. Mostly he would act like a kid when asked to do anything sort of like a tantrum. This has been going on for years. 

And no he's really not wanting me to talk or share with him for quite a while. I tried to get him to talk and open up but it doesn't happen. He's very closed off. That's been the case for years. He's never been a good communicator. Talking to him on the phone even when dating is murder. 

QUOTE=Mr.Fisty;15663825]How was he with child care? I know he has neglected them over the last year, but did he participate in their mental and emotional development? How often does he help with the housework prior to his detachment? Does he complain that you do not spend quality time as a couple and not just sex? Like, does he want to go to the movies, does he want to know your inner thoughts, stuff like that. Because sex is only one aspect of a relationship and is limited where an emotional, communicative relationship says more about the individual.

I am curious with the answers.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## farsidejunky

DO NOT CONFRONT OR ASK HIM IF HE IS IN AN AFFAIR. YOU NEED MORE INFORMATION FIRST.

This is where @GusPolinski, @weightlifter, and a few others are really good. 

For emphasis:

DO NOT CONFRONT OR ASK HIM IF HE IS IN AN AFFAIR. YOU NEED MORE INFORMATION FIRST.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Are there others we need to tag?


----------



## Marduk

scaredwifeof4 said:


> My husband is refusing Sex right now so not my choice. Not all my fault regardless of what you think you know bout me and what you had experienced. Thanks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He's refusing it likely because he either is not attracted to you, or sees it as emotional manipulation. 

That path is not likely to bear fruit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk

scaredwifeof4 said:


> Thanks all. Well he told me tonight that he is indeed done and leaving. He can't stand me as doesn't love me. I basically make him sick.
> 
> He is staying for the month until kids are done with school. He said he doesn't know if he can do it and has to have us draw up what this will look like on paper.
> 
> I asked if he thought we could reconcile once he gets some needed space and he said it's possible. Either he will miss me and family or he will be relieved to be free.
> 
> He said the years of note feeling love drove him to this and it's too far gone. There is no way the love will come back. I miss him so much already and don't know how to go one without him. I love him so much.
> 
> He also said that when he leaves he wil still come back home and help with things I can't fix etc. still be around. He doesn't understand how hard that will be for me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Let him go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## scaredwifeof4

I ordered a gps tracker and I'm going to place on his car. I also got a voice activated recorder for inside. 
I'm probably being stupid but I don't think he is cheating. Stupid....right? I just need to know. I also made an appt with attorney. He wants to do all this on our own and says he will take care of kids and I. I can't trust that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm

scaredwifeof4 said:


> I ordered a gps tracker and I'm going to place on his car. I also got a voice activated recorder for inside.
> I'm probably being stupid but I don't think he is cheating. Stupid....right? I just need to know. I also made an appt with attorney. He wants to do all this on our own and says he will take care of kids and I. I can't trust that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Smart move! You need to know your rights and what you are entitled to. You cant trust him to always do what he agrees to years down the line as life changes occur.


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## wilson

Maybe he's having an affair, maybe he's not. If he's done with the marriage and dead inside, it shouldn't at all be surprising that he tries to self-medicate in some way, which may be an affair. It's important to think about why it happened (if it did).

1. Everything is great. --> He is tempted by a woman. --> He has affair.

or

2. No sex, no connection in marriage -> He gets depressed -> Seeks way to be happy. -> Has affair

In the #1 scenario, then breaking the affair may fix the marriage. The affair was the problem. But in #2, the affair was the symptom of the problem of an unfulfilling marriage. What does it matter if you break the affair if he's still in an unfullfilling marriage?

It's still important to get to the bottom of this, but if is actually having an affair, don't lump all the problems on "the affair". Fixing the affair might just move the relationship back to the state of "depressing, unfulfilling marriage".

And just to be clear, an affair is wrong in both cases and totally on him. The difference is like someone who robs banks because they want to live the high life and someone who does it because they are dead broke.


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## scaredwifeof4

Zanne said:


> My husband was the same way. My husband also grew up in a divorced home and he never wanted that for us, but he was unwilling to change his ways until it was too late.
> 
> There are resources for men who have issues like this, but if they're not open and willing to change, it's a hard sell. Is there any chance your husband would be open to reading something that can help him deal with some of this? It's not about marriage, although it could help your marriage. Certainly it could help him be a better dad. If you have sons, you don't want them to fall into the same habits.




Oh I wish he would be open but I doubt it. He thinks when he shuts down its just because of me. I see my older son being similar already. God only knows what will happen to him when he watches dad walk out the door.


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## Anon1111

not sure what you're trying to achieve by investigating him now. the marriage is already over.

as for why he ended up where he is, the answer is pretty obvious. 

over the years the level of his investment in the marriage slowly dwindled to nothing until it finally ended up at zero--- which is precisely the level of your investment in the marriage as well.

just being a devoted mother to your children is not the same thing as being a devoted wife.

it's unfortunate that you are having to learn this lesson in this way, to be sure.

at this point I would focus on how you and your husband can be civil and productive co-parents apart.

trying to punish him for leaving after all of this time and heartache will only make things worse and ultimately will punish your children who really do need you to get along.


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## weightlifter

Just remember to secure the crap out of the VAR and use LITHIUM batteries.

See my signature for complete instructions.

BTW Gus is a phone diety.


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## scaredwifeof4

Zanne said:


> Well, since you have been the main caregiver in their lives, perhaps you had more influence. In my family, taking care of the kids was mostly left to me, but my kids have some of their dad's traits. Thankfully none of them adopted the "chip on the shoulder" attitude that my husband has. He really did not take criticism well. I realize now that my approach was not always gentle or kind. The problem is, when you get to a point of animosity between you, it is hard to put down your guard and be open to hearing what your partner has to say.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you can take the discussion of your marriage off the table, so to speak, and talk to him only about the kids and your concerns about the transition to two separate households. Make that part real to him. He wants to run away from it right now. His offer to come around and fix things is proof that he's not thinking clearly. Be kind and patient when speaking with him and keep your emotions in check. At the very least, you will retain your dignity.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and the book I was thinking of is _No More Mister Nice Guy_, by Robert Glover. You may be interested in reading it. It gives you good insight into why some men act the way they do.




Thanks. Ya he is struggling. He is so dead set on this path and I can see how hurt he is. He says he no longer loves me and to stay would mean to continue to suppress his feelings about not wanting to be near me. Honestly I am thinking its a MLC and he's jumping to what he thinks will fix everything. Not realizing how many negatives will come of this decision. I am struggling to accept that he truly just has nothing left for me.


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## TheTruthHurts

@scaredwife4 you are right to be scared and upset and you seem to understand where your H's thoughts are.

But fast forward for a moment. There are a couple of possibilities. In 1 you are independent and living your life without H. You have worked through your grief and loss and are starting the rest of your life.

In another, you are still married, and a loving and doting W, admiring your H, looking past his flaws, supporting him, and feeling like a partner who is supported and loved.

Those are the 2 options - either of which allow you to be a happy content person.

If you believe you are what you do - as I believe - then chose one and live it.

Let him make his choices, but you should make yours and enact it.

By your words, you say you want to be his W. So if that's it, don't worry about H's demons and issues, embrace the new W role that you did not embrace in the past if that's what you want.

If you really do that, he will see this isn't a sham just to lure him back, or cheap talk. If you show him you love and admire him, though he will be in disbelief at first, your earnestness will show through.

Who knows what he will choose. But you will know what you chose through action,

Sadly, people rarely show what they want through action. They allow awkwardness, guilt, shame, resentment, and a host of negative emotions to prevent them from enacting their desire. If you want him, live it and show it. 

Love and admiration and a willingness to not negatively judge someone is attractive and draws people in. Maybe he just wants to know you love him in a way he understands. Idk but I do know you need to decide then act and keep on demonstrating through action.


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## turnera

Do you have money? The best thing you can do is hire a PI to follow him. Once you have proof of the affair, you have a chance to shake him out of the affair fog by exposing it.


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## Mr.Fisty

Hmm, if he is having an affair, that explains a lot although he still neglected the children, his wife, and home. If not, then he is neglecting his children worse than before.

If you do decide to chase after him to convince him, could you be happy knowing he will neglect communication, emotions, you, the children, and home?

In other words, the only thing that changes is now you have sex, and yet, no quality time, no talking, no couple time other than sex, lack of companionship, a better father for the children and you will have no one really taking care of you as you take care of others.

He says talking and emotions are not important, and he believes that most of the child care and home responsibility are yours.

Do you want a father whom is not involved in his children's lives as he should be, do you want someone you can talk to, do you want someone to share in the burden of home and children, and do you want someone that will also meet your needs for companionship other than sex. If I recall, a relationship based soley on sex without other components is just attraction and mostly a physical relationship without the emotions and feelings or bond that is involved.


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## Mr.Fisty

scaredwifeof4 said:


> Thanks. Ya he is struggling. He is so dead set on this path and I can see how hurt he is. He says he no longer loves me and to stay would mean to continue to suppress his feelings about not wanting to be near me. Honestly I am thinking its a MLC and he's jumping to what he thinks will fix everything. Not realizing how many negatives will come of this decision. I am struggling to accept that he truly just has nothing left for me.



Honestly, do you want someone to stay if they do not love you? So, he will not share in custody but come around whenever he is able or wants to. Is his goal to be parent only when convenient?


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## Marduk

I do not understand why you want to find him cheating when you simultaneously didn't have sex with him for years, didn't care about that until recently, and he's told you he's leaving you.

Let him go be free. Let you go be free. Focus on being good parents through this crisis.

Your marriage died years ago. You both let it die.

You know that, right?


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## 3Xnocharm

scaredwifeof4 said:


> Thanks. Ya he is struggling. He is so dead set on this path and I can see how hurt he is. He says he no longer loves me and to stay would mean to continue to suppress his feelings about not wanting to be near me. Honestly I am thinking its a MLC and he's jumping to what he thinks will fix everything. Not realizing how many negatives will come of this decision. I am struggling to accept that he truly just has nothing left for me.


Blaming this on a MLC is totally minimizing your H's feelings, and deflecting any responsibility in the part that YOU played in all of this. You admit to neglect on your part, how can you possibly now blame a MLC?? I know you don't want to accept it, but is IS entirely possible for him to have nothing left toward you...I know this because I have been where he is.


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## Marduk

3Xnocharm said:


> Blaming this on a MLC is totally minimizing your H's feelings, and deflecting any responsibility in the part that YOU played in all of this. You admit to neglect on your part, how can you possibly now blame a MLC?? I know you don't want to accept it, but is IS entirely possible for him to have nothing left toward you...I know this because I have been where he is.


I agree.

Wanting to have sex after years of living in a celibate marriage is not a mid life crisis.

It's wanting more.


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## Happilymarried25

marduk said:


> I do not understand why you want to find him cheating when you simultaneously didn't have sex with him for years, didn't care about that until recently, and he's told you he's leaving you.
> 
> Let him go be free. Let you go be free. Focus on being good parents through this crisis.
> 
> Your marriage died years ago. You both let it die.
> 
> You know that, right?


They are still married and if he is cheating she needs to know that. It's typical for the cheater to blame the other spouse for why the spouse is cheating. He isn't taking any responsibility for failures in the marriage. It's not all about sex. Tell him to focus on being a good parent. She is being a good parent. He is avoiding family activities. It's one thing to avoid spending time with her but why is he avoiding spending time with his children?


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## Marduk

Happilymarried25 said:


> They are still married and if he is cheating she needs to know that. It's typical for the cheater to blame the other spouse for why the spouse is cheating. He isn't taking any responsibility for failures in the marriage. It's not all about sex. Tell him to focus on being a good parent. She is being a good parent. He is avoiding family activities. It's one thing to avoid spending time with her but why is he avoiding spending time with his children?


I dunno. There's a whole lotta projection going on. 

You don't just wake up after not having sex for years one day. 

There's a lot of bricks in that wall.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tron

Face it, this wasn't really a marriage anyway. The difference between being married and just being roommates is sex. You guys have been roommates for years. 

I don't blame him for wanting more out of a relationship.

And frankly, I don't blame you for wanting more out of your H and the marriage either. 

You both had an obligation to work on things and work for each other before it got this bad. You both failed.


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## Steve1000

Mr. Nail said:


> She doesn't care enough about my needs or my happiness enough to plan a weekend. (at least you can do that KUDOS) How am I supposed to believe all of the cuddles and touches when she withholds the things I want, and only gives the things she wants? How can my Heart believe that it is real? Every week she proves to me how worthless I am to her. All I have to do is look at the calendar.
> 
> -- Staring at the calendar still waiting


Great paragraph that's worth repeating. My wife used to insist that her way of showing love to me was to often cook very good meals for us. While I appreciated it and it was a very nice bonus, it was definitely not one of my needs. 

Like your wife, my wife often cuddles and says "I love you" every day, but shows little interest to listen to what I actually need.


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## Steve1000

scaredwifeof4 said:


> I am struggling to accept that he truly just has nothing left for me.


Although I have no idea as to the dynamics of your relationship and therefore no idea of why your marriage deteriorated, you will survive the looming separation. You have proven that you are able to adapt to difficult situations and you will continue to.

If I were you, I would probably also try to find out if he is cheating, but from the outside, I think it is not worth the emotional costs to you at this point. Investigating a spouse is an extremely stressful thing to do.


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## Abc123wife

scaredwifeof4 said:


> Thanks. Ya he is struggling. He is so dead set on this path and I can see how hurt he is. He says he no longer loves me and to stay would mean to continue to suppress his feelings about not wanting to be near me. Honestly I am thinking its a MLC and he's jumping to what he thinks will fix everything. Not realizing how many negatives will come of this decision. I am struggling to accept that he truly just has nothing left for me.


Since he is set on this path, you need to be sure that you hand over responsibility for half the child care and family duties. That will be hard for you to do since you have done 99% or more. But it will be important for the kids, for you, and for him to see what his choice is bringing him. He may be envisioning freedom from you, from his family, and from the drudgery of all the immense responsibilities of a family of 4 kids. BUT if you really split the days/nights, the responsibilities, the duties, he will see that there will be very few nights out to bars and bands and new hobbies. He will be too exhausted if he has 4 kids to care for. He may finally feel the exhaustion you feel having a full time job and being responsible for most of the kid duties and house chores. Seriously pick the days he has to be home to get them off the bus, cart them to after school activities, to dr appointments. He will have to do homework help, get them dinner, get them to bed, backpacks ready, on the bus the next morning... Please don't let him walk away to a life of new adventures and excitement, free from his family and the many responsibilities of having brought 4 kids into the world!


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## TheTruthHurts

Abc123wife said:


> scaredwifeof4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. Ya he is struggling. He is so dead set on this path and I can see how hurt he is. He says he no longer loves me and to stay would mean to continue to suppress his feelings about not wanting to be near me. Honestly I am thinking its a MLC and he's jumping to what he thinks will fix everything. Not realizing how many negatives will come of this decision. I am struggling to accept that he truly just has nothing left for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Since he is set on this path, you need to be sure that you hand over responsibility for half the child care and family duties. That will be hard for you to do since you have done 99% or more. But it will be important for the kids, for you, and for him to see what his choice is bringing him. He may be envisioning freedom from you, from his family, and from the drudgery of all the immense responsibilities of a family of 4 kids. BUT if you really split the days/nights, the responsibilities, the duties, he will see that there will be very few nights out to bars and bands and new hobbies. He will be too exhausted if he has 4 kids to care for. He may finally feel the exhaustion you feel having a full time job and being responsible for most of the kid duties and house chores. Seriously pick the days he has to be home to get them off the bus, cart them to after school activities, to dr appointments. He will have to do homework help, get them dinner, get them to bed, backpacks ready, on the bus the next morning... Please don't let him walk away to a life of new adventures and excitement, free from his family and the many responsibilities of having brought 4 kids into the world!
Click to expand...

I completely agree but be prepared to really release control. Your H may be content to hire a nanny, baby sitters, aupair, etc. he may also be content to let the kids fail or succeed in homework on their own.

That's my position - but I'm happily married - but I don't micromanage my kids but my W does. It's her choice. I've offered that type of help in the past but she enjoys the cate giver role.

My point is you do your half and let him do his. It's a very good point


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## sideways

Scared, as a parent of an autistic child (along with another child), I know how hard it is. I can't even imagine having FOUR special needs children. 

I know how mentally draining it can be, and you barely have any time for yourself. My heart goes out to you, and those kids of yours are extremely blessed to have you taking care of them all these yrs. 

When our daughter was diagnosed it hit me (and my wife HARD). It was also brought to my attention that the divorce rate for marriages with a special needs child is over 90%. It's usually the man who can't handle it, and ultimately leaves. Given you and your husbands situation of raising four special needs children the cards were most certainly stacked against you.

As a father and a husband I can only imagine what kind of thoughts were/are going through your husbands mind. So many of his dreams have been altered, and I'm sure you've experienced the same thing. It's easy to think, "I didn't sign up for this". Now throw in that the one person who's in this with you (your spouse) doesn't want to be intimate with you, and you start thinking, "well I know I had NO control over my children's health, I'm dealing with it and accepting the cards I've been dealt, but [email protected]$M now my wife is going to take more control away from me and start to suffocate one of THE main things that binds us together"? I know your reasons why, but I'm just stating what he's probably thinking.

So he's watching you give your love and time to your kids, and wondering why in the world can't you show me any of this? Even if it's just one time a week. So more then likely he started to resent you, and he's watched you pull away from him and now he does likewise (whether this is consciously or subconsciously). "You have time for everyone/everything except for me....well feel free to do all those household chores by yourself. Not saying it's right.

If this has been going on for quite awhile (and it sounds like it has) your husband, in his mind, experienced ANOTHER dream die...your relationship....and it didn't come from a stranger....it came from you. I get putting your kids first, THAT'S WHAT YOU SHOULD BE DOING!! However, you also put them 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc etc etc....you get my point? As sick as this sounds he probably started feeling jealous and resentful of your love for your kids.

He is NOT experiencing a mid life crisis. Again this relationship died LONG ago, and it's time to bury it and move on to try and salvage something else that gets him feeling alive again. Thus why he's ready o move on. 

Can this relationship be saved as I know that's what you want in your heart, and I TRULY believe you when you say that this has been a wake up call for you? Let me also say that I know you too were experiencing some serious pain having been dealt the hand you received. A woman is more nurturing, and thus you more then likely put the pain you were feeling into being over protective of your kids and trying to make their lives easier. However by going to that extreme you gave up a piece of you (which I'm sure you're good with), but you also took something away from your husband and he didn't even have a say so in any of this. The decision was made by you. The one person who he thought had his back. Crazy i know.

Back to can this be saved? The first step (in my opinion) is to take your husbands hand and acknowledge your role in this and what you did to him. OWN IT!!!! Let him know you weren't doing it on purpose. Like they say, they don't give you a manual on how to raise a kid better yet they sure in the hell don't make a manual on how to deal/raise FOUR special needs children.

Let him know your heart was always in the right place. We're not talking about you doing everything you did for strangers, but rather you were doing the best that you could do for both of your children. Everyone experiences pain in life. Some numb it with it drugs, others with food, porn, TV, etc etc, you dealt with your pain by sinking everything you had into trunk to raise and protect both of your children, and unfortunately, by doing so, your tank was empty for him. You had nothing to give him, and for that you are truly sorry. If you had a magic wand you'd do it completely different. 

I would also tell him (WITHOUT BEGGING) that you'd like the opportunity to start over. It would be one thing if the two of you never loved each other. If that was the case this would an exercise in futility. However the two of you did love each other, and out of that love The Lord blessed you with not one, not two or three, but FOUR, not "special needs", but SPECIAL souls that came out of the love that the two you use to share for one another. 

Ask him if he can find it in his heart to trust The Lord (and you) to give this relationship another chance. That you've learned from your mistakes, and all that you're wanting is the chance to try to make this relationship (and your family) whole again. That you realize that the love he once had for you has died, but that doesn't mean that it can't be resurrected. With the Lord's help it can be.

Let him know you will not pressure him on this. You realize in his mind the book has been completed, but that doesn't mean more chapters can't be written. He once trusted you....I'd like to show you how much he truly means to you. You'd like to have the chance to heal his soul.

Ask him to pray on it (again if he's already done so because he hadn't heard what you had to say about all of this), and whatever god puts on his heart to do moving forward you'll respect.

Some will say this is begging and it won't work. That you'll drive him further away. What do you have to lose at this juncture.

Scared, even if after saying all of this it doesn't work out.....trust me when I say this....YOU WILL BE FANTASTIC!!! I know you're worried about your kids, and they'll be ok as well I'm talking specifically about you.

It was NO COINCIDENCE that The Lord blessed you with four special children. You know why? Because you my friend are SPECIAL. What I see from your story is a woman who's: 
*TOUGH AS NAILS
*HAS A HUGE HEART
*NOT AFRAID TO WORK
*SOMEONE WHO PUTS OTHERS FIRST
*WILL OWN UP TO MISTAKES
*DOESN'T THROW IN THE TOWEL WHEN THINGS GET TOUGH
*NOW REALIZES SHE HAS MORE LOVE TO GIVE
*YOU GET KNOCKED DOWN BUT YOU PICK YOURSELF UP
*WILL FIGHT FOR HER FAMILY
*BELIEVES IN SECOND CHANCES

I could go on and on scared, but all of the attributes I just mentioned are hard to find and I for one (and many other men will agree) it's extremely sexy!!

Ask The Lord to guide you through this, and trust that wherever he's going to take you moving forward he has great things in store for you and despite how you're feeling right now there are SO MANY MORE WONDERFUL MEMORIES TO BE MADE!!!!

Go read Lonelyhusband's story. Different situation but he put his faith in The Lord to guide him through his storm, and at the end of the day when you put your faith and trust in him you can rest assured you're not in this alone and you won't be afraid to get through each day.

Praying for you and please keep us updated.


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## threelittlestars

Just found your thread today, and I wanted to also put my vote in on this being an affair, and alternately an EXIT affair. I am curious to find what the GPS and VAR pull up. 

I am very sorry you are being so coldly rejected. i think its just an affair, and you should not be open to R at this point until you REALLY understand why he is leaving. He needs to understand that too. 

Wishing you well and hope you find the truth you are looking for, and hopefully peace in the end as well.


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## scaredwifeof4

Hi all just wanted to report back! There is no affair. I knew this man's heart was good. And! We are reconciling and it's been terrific. Found a great counselor and I'm working on some attachment issues. He is supportive and has been thrilled with the changes in our marriage. 
To all the posted positive. I appreciate. To all that told me tohome up.... I hope this post encourages others to work on repairing their marriage and that it doesn't have to be too late. I have lots of hard work to do yet and we are committed to repairing our family. Thanks!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## scaredwifeof4

Should be give up not home up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## karole

What changed his mind and convinced him to try to repair your marriage?


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## turnera

scaredwifeof4 said:


> I have lots of hard work to do yet


What kind of hard work has HE agreed to do? Or is this just occurring because you've promised to better/work harder/do more/give more sex?

A couple weeks ago, he couldn't stand to be around you.


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## aine

turnera said:


> What kind of hard work has HE agreed to do? Or is this just occurring because you've promised to better/work harder/do more/give more sex?
> 
> A couple weeks ago, he couldn't stand to be around you.



yes, I would like the answers to these questions:

1. why his change of heart?
2. He didn't want to be anywhere near you, now it's ok?
3. You went away for a weekend and it was very awkward now it is a complete 360 in the space of a few months?
4. how long have you been in MC - how many sessions?
5. Is he pulling his weight as a father or are you still carrying the 90% and also taking care of his needs? 
6. Is he an equal partner in terms of responsibiliy?
7. YOu say you have alot of work to do, what about him?


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## Plan 9 from OS

> It was NO COINCIDENCE that *The Lord blessed you* with four special children. You know why? Because you my friend are SPECIAL.]


I know I should just let this comment go, but sorry I can't. It's bullsh!t.


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## threelittlestars

machristol said:


> This is my testimony about the good work of a man who helped me..My name is Marian Christ. and I am based in London , UK. My life is back!!! After 8 years of marriage, my husband left me with our three children. I felt like my life was about to end,and was falling apart. Thanks to a spell caster called papa Justus who i met online. On one faithful day, as I was browsing through the internet, I was searching for a good spell caster that can solve my problems. I came across series of testimonies about this particular spell caster. Some people testified that he brought their Ex lover back, some testified that he restores womb, some testified that he can cast a spell to stop divorce and so on. There was one particular testimony I saw, it was about a woman called Grace,she testified about how papa Justus brought back her Ex lover in less than 72 hours and at the end of her testimony she drop papa Justus e-mail address. After reading all these,I decided to give papa a try.
> 
> I contacted him via email and explained my problems to him. In just 3 days, my husband came back to me. We solved our issues, and we are even happier than before. papa Justus is really a talented and gifted man and i will not stop publishing him because he is a wonderful man…If you have a problem and you are looking for a real and genuine spell caster to solve that problem for you. Try the great papa Justus today, he might be the answer to your problems. Here’s his contact: [email protected]
> Thank you great Justus. Contact him for the following:
> 
> (1)If you want your ex back.
> (2) if you always have bad dreams.
> (3)You want to be promoted in your office.
> (4)You want women/men to run after you.
> (5)If you want a child.
> (6)[You want to be rich.
> (7)You want to tie your husband/wife to be yours forever.
> (8)If you need financial assistance.
> (9)Herbal care
> 10)Help bringing people out of prison
> (11)Marriage Spells
> (12)Miracle Spells
> (13)Beauty Spells
> (14)PROPHECY CHARM
> (15)Attraction Spells
> (16)Evil Eye Spells
> (17)Kissing Spell
> (18)Remove Sickness Spells
> (19)ELECTION WINNING SPELLS
> (20)SUCCESS IN EXAMS SPELLS
> (21) Charm to get who to love you.
> (22)Business spell.
> (23) Find your long lost family.
> Contact him today on:
> [email protected],
> +2347033354868.
> You can also CONTACT HIM ON whats-app on the same phone number


OKAY...WHO LET THE LOVE GURU'S IN....news flash, people on here dont believe in this email voodoo stuff! GO AWAY.


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## 3Xnocharm

Already banned! lol!


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