# Where are the women?



## Janie (Apr 10, 2010)

Just a random thought...

This board is littered with men concerned about the lack of sex in their lives. 
Where are the women tired of him wanting too much sex?

I wish they were here. I want to talk to them...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Excellent question. I was one of those woman who avoided sexual contact with my h when we were having problems. What brought me to this site was a search for info to make an effort to save my marriage because I was on the brink of leaving. Main reason for the research was to save my marriage I did not see the lack of sex as a problem. That is until I read books and post by sex-starved men. Then I realized the central role of sex in a man's life and in marital relationship. I think my total clulessness about the role of sex is shared by many women. This is obvious when reading the post from them - it is almost universal, their wives think sex is not important. 

So the spouse not wanting sex does not see it as a problem and is living large with no problems. That is until the hubby has an affair, or ask for a divorce. Then his partner may seek solutions and show up on this forum but not primarily from the standpoint of the problems that lack of sex has created but to get the h back. I don't know if there is any real understanding on a deep level of male sexuity. Maybe the understanding that if he is not having sex with his wife he may fond someone to have it with. They may have sex to keep their h but may not see it as an act of love and connection but as currency for having him around. My opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Excellent question. I was one of those woman who avoided sexual contact with my h when we were having problems. What brought me to this site was a search for info to make an effort to save my marriage because I was on the brink of leaving. Main reason for the research was to save my marriage I did not see the lack of sex as a problem. That is until I read books and post by sex-starved men. Then I realized the central role of sex in a man's life and in marital relationship. I think my total clulessness about the role of sex is shared by many women. This is obvious when reading the post from them - it is almost universal, their wives think sex is not important.
> 
> So the spouse not wanting sex does not see it as a problem and is living large with no problems. That is until the hubby has an affair, or ask for a divorce. Then his partner may seek solutions and show up on this forum but not primarily from the standpoint of the problems that lack of sex has created but to get the h back. I don't know if there is any real understanding on a deep level of male sexuity. Maybe the understanding that if he is not having sex with his wife he may fond someone to have it with. They may have sex to keep their h but may not see it as an act of love and connection but as currency for having him around. My opinion.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


At least you are admitting the problem: most women only have the vaguest of clues about male sexuality, and they are not only not encouraged to learn, but they are actively discouraged from doing so.

And you can tell by the number of desperate partners on this site just how well that's working out.

Good luck!


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I don't think you will hear from these women. Their rejection of their husbands is personal and can't really be explained without admitting things that aren't very flattering to them.

The reasons are:

1) They are no longer attracted to their husband.
2) They are no longer in love with their husband.
3) They think their husbands wanting sex is a sign of their weakness and that isn't very 'sexy' to them.
4) They are punishing their husband for something else in their marriage/life.

How can someone discuss that their husbands wanting sex twice a week is a horrible thing for them?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

There is a steady trickle of posts like this. They tend not to be very specific so it is often tough to understand the dynamic. One common pattern is to leave a "bad boy" and then over react by selecting a "provider" with whom there is little/no chemistry. While "hunting" the provider, there is some sexual tension caused by the hunt. But once caught - sex becomes this awful chore. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/18853-not-attracted-my-husband.html





Janie said:


> Just a random thought...
> 
> This board is littered with men concerned about the lack of sex in their lives.
> Where are the women tired of him wanting too much sex?
> ...


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## Janie (Apr 10, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> That is until I read books and post by sex-starved men. Then I realized the central role of sex in a man's life and in marital relationship. I think my total clulessness about the role of sex is shared by many women. This is obvious when reading the post from them - it is almost universal, their wives think sex is not important.
> 
> They may have sex to keep their h but may not see it as an act of love and connection but as currency for having him around.


Great insights!



MEM11363 said:


> While "hunting" the provider, there is some sexual tension caused by the hunt. But once caught - sex becomes this awful chore.


Love this - you certainly have a way with words!


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Sorry Janie, I am one of the woman trying to get my husband to put out more, so I can't help LOL.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I'm with DawnD. 

I'm trying to get my husband to have sex with me, so I can't help either. LOL


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## wifeinto (Jan 31, 2011)

> Sorry Janie, I am one of the woman trying to get my husband to put out more, so I can't help LOL.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I think you'll find that the Sex forum is slightly biased towards dirty and sexually liberal ol' men and women so I suppose it's not the always most reliable source for reality.

Not that I am a dirty ol' man, dreaming of sex all the time, horny, licking my chops, fantasizing. . .um, what was the topic again?


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

I think that those women post here, but they don't post it as the title of their thread. They see that there marriage is in trouble, and post something about how they don't love their husband or aren't attracted to him, etc. Because the men see it as a big problem, the women don't because "that's just how men are" to them.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Janie said:


> Just a random thought...
> 
> This board is littered with men concerned about the lack of sex in their lives.
> Where are the women tired of him wanting too much sex?
> ...


I think you would find more of them in the Ladies Lounge.

The other posters in this thread highlight a real issue.

Most of these women don't really see themselves as part of any problem regarding "Sex In Marriage" - except that their man may have dogged them for it.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> I think you'll find that the Sex forum is slightly biased towards dirty and sexually liberal ol' men and women so I suppose it's not the always most reliable source for reality.
> 
> Not that I am a dirty ol' man, dreaming of sex all the time, horny, licking my chops, fantasizing. . .um, what was the topic again?


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Conrad said:


> I think you would find more of them in the Ladies Lounge.
> 
> The other posters in this thread highlight a real issue.
> 
> Most of these women don't really see themselves as part of any problem regarding "Sex In Marriage" - except that their man may have dogged them for it.


Conrad, I don't think that's how women think. When there are problems in the marriage that makes a woman stop being attracted to her husband sexually, the woman does not think of sex as central to the spiral downwards. Since there is no appreciation of how men feel when their wives reject them, it does not come to mind. 

I can honestly tell you I had no idea that my husband thought I no longer loved him, he became sad, depressed and cranky but I did not know what he was feeling. I thought it was the problems we were having. When I read books and post by men I was astonished and very sad. 

I usually don't feel desire as frequently as he does but he knows how to warm me up and then I feel desire then aroused and we are off and running. My husband does not ask, he just warms me up. Some woman may not like that but, he is dominant and I am submissive and I do. 

The rate limiting step for me is getting the desire. Men get upset when women do not initiate but I just can't do it but I rarely refuse him. He is sensitive enough and does not try to warm me up when I am really tired after a trip lets say or a late night.

I think if the LD spouse knew that spontaneous desire is not needed but, it be coxed to life, there would be far less problems. Also, it takes understanding on the part of the HD partner, he should not feel unloved if he has to "work" to get his wife aroused. Who cares as long as she is on board. 

I tell my husband that I do not understand why I need him to warm me up but to take it as an act of love and not that I do not find him attractive. But it is still difficult for him to believe that.


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## Janie (Apr 10, 2010)

Conrad said:


> I think you would find more of them in the Ladies Lounge.
> 
> The other posters in this thread highlight a real issue.
> 
> Most of these women don't really see themselves as part of any problem regarding "Sex In Marriage" - except that their man may have dogged them for it.


I'm hesitant to post in Ladies Lounge because I'm looking for input from men & women both. The men have contributed as much to this topic as the women have!

And you're right - women only come to this forum when they see a problem with their marriage. And they perceive the problem begins long after the sex relationship dies... when he has cheated, or is leaving, etc. 

I will try the General Relationship area next time!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The standard informal term for the person who is unwilling to have sex with their spouse is a "refuser". This is what I have observed about both male and female refusers. 

Facts: 
- They very rarely come on boards like this
- When they do come they rarely stay and solicit ongoing feedback in an attempt to resolve the problem
- It is quite rare for a "refuser" either male or female to "solve" their desire issue in an "evolutionary" manner. Catherine is very unusual in this regard (more on her in a moment). The cases that were "solved" often came about in a revolutionary manner when their long suffering spouse initiated a separation or divorce. Suddenly this became a priority - communication occurred - they both made an effort and got positive results. 

Opinions:
- The refuser is "typically" much more satisfied with the status quo than the refused. Maybe this is because "their" needs are being mostly/fully met. Often the refused spends 95% of their time conveying love, warmth and commitment and 5% complaining about the lack of sex. The refuser gets used to ignoring the complaining since nothing bad ever seems to actually "happen" and in "between" complaints they get treated like royalty. Since they are mostly satisfied, they don't seek out boards to help "fix" the problem. They don't view "themselves" as having a problem. 
- The refuser is aware at some level that their behavior is not fair. So they are hesitant to come on a board and talk about it. The "main" aspect of unfairness is not the lack of "lust", rather it is the deceit and deception they engage in to maintain a status quo that is in a biological sense, parasitic. 
- They often lack the behavioral vocabulary to even convey to their partner what they "really" want. And their partners often lack that vocabulary as well. For instance, I often read a classic conflict avoidant/nice guy male posting bitterly about how his W won't have sex with him but was very sexual with her "bad boy" ex. The nice guy says "I am not going to act like a total pricckk just to get laid". This is the exact mirror image of the utterly ridiculous model of "good girls and ****s". You are one or the other. For these couples the W believes she can either have passion or stability but not both. And her H doesn't grasp the idea that you can be "dominant" without ever violating the golden rule. This was a long winded way of saying that unless the "guy" figures this out - an evolutionary solution is unlikely. 
- The refuser often gets told "just suukk it up and have sex with your partner. You will get back in the "groove" if you just do it. Or they realize just how daunting the path to "real" desire is:
a. They have to exercise, eat better, get enough sleep, get off meds that may be killing their desire including birth control pills, depression meds
b. AND their partner needs to "man up" - which is something that he really needs to initiate/drive on his own

Probably seems like an overwhelming challenge.....


I think Catherine is a good example of someone who:
- Married someone she really loved
- Her desire for him got obstructed by her legitimate resentment at him for treating her differently "post" marriage than he did while they dated
- She is mature enough to actually see and work on both sides of their marital issues simultaneously. Once she recognized that the sexual shut down was truly causing her H deep anguish she worked to address that while "in parallel" he stepped up and addressed his negative behaviors. The "in parallel" thing shows tremendous maturity and commitment. Sadly what often happens is the LD spouse "tests" their HD partners boundaries by over stating how upset they are, refusing to "forgive" prior behavior they didn't like and basically saying "I have no idea when or if I will forgive you for ....". Generally speaking an HD partner who tolerates that open ended ends up in a profoundly broken and one sided marriage. 






Janie said:


> Just a random thought...
> 
> This board is littered with men concerned about the lack of sex in their lives.
> Where are the women tired of him wanting too much sex?
> ...


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## DudleyD (Jan 25, 2011)

MEM11363 - Regardless of why you are here... I freaking love your posts... it's almost like you are eloquently reciting all the things I've felt in the back of my head over the years about my situation... it's great to see someone spell these things out so clearly. 

I sincerely appreciate your posts and I'm positive you've been a big help to a lot of the people who read these boards.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Sadly what often happens is the LD spouse "tests" their HD partners boundaries by over stating how upset they are, refusing to "forgive" prior behavior they didn't like and basically saying "I have no idea when or if I will forgive you for ....". Generally speaking an HD partner who tolerates that open ended ends up in a profoundly broken and one sided marriage.


I have a different take on forgiveness than most people. I don't try to do the "Christian" forgiveness. The injured party does all of the work and the person who caused the pain depends upon the largest of the injured to turn the other cheek. That's cheap forgiveness, saints do that not people. 

Rather, I like the Jewish concept of forgiveness where atonement on the part of the party that inflicted the pain is required when asking to be forgiven. Cheap forgiveness never works there is always an underlying resentment that festers and eventually emerges.

My husband realized what I went through in the early years when the babies came along. We were young and did not have the ability to cope. He listened to me attentively finally, as I expressed my pain and utter hopelessness. He never cut me off when I brought it up out of the blue, he seemed to live my pain. He did atone because he felt what I felt and by his actions, I knew he was sincere. 

He could do this because I showed a reciprocal willingness to understand things about him that were difficult for me to comprehend. I made the major adjustments in my thinking and behaviors to show I understood. Therefore I had no problem letting it go and feel no lingering anger towards him.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

DudleyD said:


> MEM11363 - Regardless of why you are here... I freaking love your posts... it's almost like you are eloquently reciting all the things I've felt in the back of my head over the years about my situation... it's great to see someone spell these things out so clearly.
> 
> I sincerely appreciate your posts and I'm positive you've been a big help to a lot of the people who read these boards.


He is one of the stars on TAM! 

Wish the other stars don't come and go! 

A marriage board needs some stars to shine the sky for the lost ones!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The "people of the book" were fair and fierce. They took an eye for an eye. I did not mean to suggest for a moment that he "undid" years of neglect with a "one and done apology". From the overall tone of your current posts - sounds like he did his pennance. Simply making the point that you resisted any impulse to be vindictive by freezing him out - once he stepped up. 


I remember the years that we had young children and I had a high travel consulting schedule. I would arrive home Friday night and walk in the door. She would say "I missed you" - which was the kindest possible way to let me know what a burden 3 kids and no Dad were 5 days a week, week after week. 

And I would say "What can I do to make it up to you"? And sometimes she would specifically ask for something and I would just step up and do it. 

That said - she wanted to be a SAHM and that job fully funded our life. So this was a balance of sorts. 

When did "I am sorry" become the replacement for actual pennance?





Catherine602 said:


> I have a different take on forgiveness than most people. I don't try to do the "Christian" forgiveness. The injured party does all of the work and the person who caused the pain depends upon the largest of the injured to turn the other cheek. That's cheap forgiveness, saints do that not people.
> 
> Rather, I like the Jewish concept of forgiveness where atonement on the part of the party that inflicted the pain is required when asking to be forgiven. Cheap forgiveness never works there is always an underlying resentment that festers and eventually emerges.
> 
> ...


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## Headache2011 (Feb 9, 2011)

Damn all you ladies complaining about your husbands not giving you some. Ya'll need to rub off on my wife. I call her the sex camel lol. 
Anyhow to the poster I'd say your best way to figure all this out is to communicate with him. Weather this is gonna work or not you need to deiscuss it with him and get to the bottom of your feelings of not being attracted to him. Least you know that you've tried by doing that. Good luck to you and him.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

What makes you think the OP is a "refuser"?


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Great points.

It really speaks to the fact that each person in a marriage can have such a different perception of what the core "problems" or issues are.

If a wife is tired of her husband asking for "too much sex," it's probably just not the problem. TO HER.

It also says something about what sex might mean, to a husband and wife in a troubled marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

1) They are no longer attracted to their husband.
2) They are no longer in love with their husband.
3) They think their husbands wanting sex is a sign of their weakness and that isn't very 'sexy' to them.
4) They are punishing their husband for something else in their marriage/life

If they aren't in love with their spouses or attracted to them, why are they still there? If it's not a love relationship or a sexual relationship, what exactly is it? Sounds like exploitation to me. My wife has never been resentful enough or repulsed enough by me to refuse to spend money I earn or enjoy all the other benefits of marriage. If someone hates me, they need to do so from another address. If they feel that wanting sex isn't sexy, they shouldn't have married a guy who was obviously interested in sex. If they are using sex as currency to purchase some behavior or service from their spouse, their vows were fraudulently made and they have transformed the marriage arrangement into a business proposition.


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