# No more french kissing. Intimacy issues?



## secretmonkey (Jan 7, 2014)

I wanted to post here to get some insight before I go to the next step, which I think is to approach my wife and suggest we go to a marriage counselor.

We've been together for a few years, and married for one. We don't french kiss at all, which is no big deal to her, but is really important to me. She's the one who 86'd it. When we were dating and early on, we did, and she's a great kisser and we had some pretty long kissing sessions while we were dating! Though some time after, she told me she doesn't like it, that she has an aversion to being wet, which is a bit of a problem since french kissing is...well...wet! (For the record, I've always been complimented as a good kisser: not sloppy, no tongue-shoving)

I've told her a few times that I really miss it, and she just gets upset and says she's stressed out and gives a list of what's on her mind. But no matter when I bring it up, there's always an excuse.

To answer in advance some questions I know will come up, and some additional points:

* We otherwise get along great, are good friends to each other, we have discussions instead of fighting/yelling, no name-calling.

* Sex is mostly initiated by me. In *my* mind, it ranges from routine to very good. I always take care of her when she wants, too, but sometimes she isn't interested in me reciprocating.

* I don't compliment her much anymore. I used to, but she would very often deflect with humor or some comment, making it awkward or ruining the moment, so I stopped.

* We still hold hands and snuggle on the couch and in bed.

* She's not into foreplay at all, and she's not big on being naked, so no nice surprises for me like me coming to bed and finding her without any clothes on. I don't get the no foreplay part. She says she just likes to get right into the good part. As a guy, this initially sounds like a good thing. But now, I see that foreplay is also a form of intimacy, and we're missing that.

* She lets go when she's had a few drinks in her. French kissing is back on the table, she'll hop into bed and take her clothes completely off. It's kind of sad that it takes alcohol to get to this level.

I'd really appreciate any insight. I just don't know what other recourse to take than to see a marriage counselor. Thanks.


----------



## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

An easy one for a change. She doesn't love you any more.

NEXT!


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

She isnt into you and that is a red flag. It is ONE red flag so don't do ANY accusing of other men. You have a single red flag tho its a biggie I wouldnt go 007 on her. YET.

That being said if you get escalations in red flags DONT DO 1 THING: confront without overwhelming evidence. half azzed confronts are disasters. The goal of a confront is overwhelming evidence to crush any and all resistance. You have almost nothing except your post looks like dozens here that were bad. She will shoot your butt down so fast your head will spin.

To me it looks like she is transfering intimacy to someone else but you don't have jack to prove it and you really dont have enough to do more than keep your eyes open.

Is she: Losing weight and dressing hotter for work, casually mentions some guy at work, Wont put phone down takes it into shower and sleeps with it, Showers immediately when coming home or changes, unexplained overtime where there used to be none, sudden increase in nights out with friends at unconfirmed locations or clubs?

MC may be a good idea but even in MC do not under ANY circumstances mention you are suspicious.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Provided that there is not another man on the side, it seems that she might be having a self-image problem of some kind. Individual counseling could maybe restore her confidence and IMHO, could be worth a shot.

But I do know that in my prior marriages that marginal amounts of alcohol helped to diminish both of our inhibitions and the resulting sex was almost always fantastic!*


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

My comments follow...



secretmonkey said:


> I wanted to post here to get some insight before I go to the next step, which I think is to approach my wife and suggest we go to a marriage counselor.
> 
> We've been together for a few years, and married for one. We don't french kiss at all, which is no big deal to her, but is really important to me. She's the one who 86'd it. When we were dating and early on, we did, and she's a great kisser and we had some pretty long kissing sessions while we were dating! Though some time after, she told me she doesn't like it, that she has an aversion to being wet, which is a bit of a problem since french kissing is...well...wet! (For the record, I've always been complimented as a good kisser: not sloppy, no tongue-shoving)


My current woman isn't big on it, says doesn't want saliva in her mouth or overly large male tongues. It sucks to have that option completely removed, it always was a way to express intimacy and closeness.



secretmonkey said:


> I've told her a few times that I really miss it, and she just gets upset and says she's stressed out and gives a list of what's on her mind. But no matter when I bring it up, there's always an excuse.
> 
> To answer in advance some questions I know will come up, and some additional points:
> 
> * We otherwise get along great, are good friends to each other, we have discussions instead of fighting/yelling, no name-calling.


Great friends is not necessarily going to "bring the heat" and let you get your d1ck wet...



secretmonkey said:


> * Sex is mostly initiated by me. In *my* mind, it ranges from routine to very good. I always take care of her when she wants, too, but sometimes she isn't interested in me reciprocating.


Be thankful you are allowed to initiate. I hope you do not experience a high rate of failure. I'm used to situations were we both desire each other, and I intiate or she takes what she wants. I'm also used to a couple of situations where the woman will completely manage it, so it is compartementalized.



secretmonkey said:


> * I don't compliment her much anymore. I used to, but she would very often deflect with humor or some comment, making it awkward or ruining the moment, so I stopped.


But another guy doing it probably makes her hot...



secretmonkey said:


> * We still hold hands and snuggle on the couch and in bed.


Great. This is a great sign, and without a french kisser it shows she loves being close to you.



secretmonkey said:


> * She's not into foreplay at all, and she's not big on being naked, so no nice surprises for me like me coming to bed and finding her without any clothes on.


Just great. Can't even see your own wife naked, even if it's not her thing.... Is there any man on this earth who fires her jets up enough where she would love for him to see her naked?



secretmonkey said:


> I don't get the no foreplay part. She says she just likes to get right into the good part. As a guy, this initially sounds like a good thing. But now, I see that foreplay is also a form of intimacy, and we're missing that.


Even light foreplay to ensure everything is all warmed up.... How can this be completely denied?



secretmonkey said:


> * She lets go when she's had a few drinks in her. French kissing is back on the table, she'll hop into bed and take her clothes completely off. It's kind of sad that it takes alcohol to get to this level.


Obviously a release of a mental block. I wouldn't cry about it. Some peoples partners are much more sexual and raunchier and open with some drinks in them. It's just the way they are...


secretmonkey said:


> I'd really appreciate any insight. I just don't know what other recourse to take than to see a marriage counselor. Thanks.


It sounds like you have a good sex life, good intimacy and a few crumbs of things you prefer are normally missing.

Considering how badly some of us other TAM'ers have it, many would feel BLESSED to be in your position.


----------



## secretmonkey (Jan 7, 2014)

I don't think that's the case. If I were to mention divorce (not that that's what I want to do), I have a feeling she'd be devastated by the idea.


----------



## secretmonkey (Jan 7, 2014)

Man, some of you people are jaded! Wow. Some helpful advice, some useless. No, she's not cheating. She has zero time to do so, as we both work out of the home and spend pretty much every waking hour together.


----------



## secretmonkey (Jan 7, 2014)

She definitely still wants my companionship. If I ever go out to run an errand and I suggest I go by myself, she'll go with me on her own volition. So this isn't about not being into me. I think it's some weird OCD/hang-up thing, and maybe some self-esteem or fear of intimacy issues.


----------



## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

secretmonkey said:


> If I were to mention divorce (not that that's what I want to do), I have a feeling she'd be devastated by the idea.


I'll take that bet.

This board is RIDDLED with men who have had their worlds crash when the love of their lives give them the ILYBINILWY speech (I love you but I'm not in love with you). I'll bet EVERY SINGLE ONE would agree that their situation is nearly IDENTICAL to what you describe. You described my marriage to T.

I'm going to tell you something that you are not going to believe. Women check out of the marriages ALL THE TIME. It is INCREDIBLY common. No surprise there. But you would be AMAZED at the number of husbands who have no clue it has happened. I know. I lived it. And I have read THOUSANDS of posts just like yours. Every one surely from the same cause.

And take the "she's cheating" comments with a grain of salt. EVERYONE could be cheating. But that's not your problem here.


----------



## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

She's not attracted to you.
Hit the gym and get in shape and that's likely to change.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

secretmonkey said:


> She definitely still wants my companionship. If I ever go out to run an errand and I suggest I go by myself, she'll go with me on her own volition. So this isn't about not being into me. I think it's some weird OCD/hang-up thing, and maybe some self-esteem or fear of intimacy issues.


I'd agree with your thinking. And suggest that marriage counseling is a good next step. You may have to be willing to push through some emotional responses to get her there...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

secretmonkey said:


> She definitely still wants my companionship. If I ever go out to run an errand and I suggest I go by myself, she'll go with me on her own volition. So this isn't about not being into me. I think it's some weird OCD/hang-up thing, and maybe some self-esteem or fear of intimacy issues.


Dude, that means she loves her time with you! That's a great sign. I wouldn't try to let everything be perfectly the way you want it.

Accept that some people will not like some things you like and will not do them. 

The compromise is after some long period of time, that it gets done at some minumum level and at least shows they try and care about how you feel.

You have so many affirmations that shows your wife loves you and really cares how you feel.


----------



## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

secretmonkey said:


> She definitely still wants my companionship. If I ever go out to run an errand and I suggest I go by myself, she'll go with me on her own volition. So this isn't about not being into me. I think it's some weird OCD/hang-up thing, and maybe some self-esteem or fear of intimacy issues.


Perfect. Then have her go see a shrink and get on with your lives. 

You are in for a ride my friend. I don't envy you.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I didn't mean to intentionally insinuate that there might be infidelity, but with the huge track record of that activity seemingly inherent here at TAM, one can never be sure. But given a logical propensity for a lack of self-image, I'd start there!

Best of luck to you both, Secret!*


----------



## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

wilderness said:


> She's not attracted to you.
> Hit the gym and get in shape and that's likely to change.


Should I give the bad news on this one too?


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

MrK said:


> I'll take that bet.
> 
> This board is RIDDLED with men who have had their worlds crash when the love of their lives give them the ILYBINILWY speech (I love you but I'm not in love with you). I'll bet EVERY SINGLE ONE would agree that their situation is nearly IDENTICAL to what you describe. You described my marriage to T.
> 
> ...


I don't agree. I think he has many positive affirmations that his wife enjoys her time with him and enjoys being in the same space.

He just might not get everything the way he wants it, but he has a lot that many of us here do not have.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Its a pretty normal thing for french kissing to drop off once you hit long term. Usually though, it at least happens during sex. If the only way she does it is when she is tipsy, its very likely that she just doesnt enjoy it with you any more. Doesnt mean she is cheating, doesnt mean she wants out. I know with my XH2, I stopped french kissing him because he stopped making an effort to do it well.


----------



## secretmonkey (Jan 7, 2014)

I'm not trying to sound like I don't appreciate what I have. We both do. We got married late, because we both spent a lot of time dating and finding the wrong people, and we're a really good match for each other. Literally *everything* is good with us, except there are some intimacy/sex issues. I don't know why people so easily say that french kissing is not a big deal and it goes away. I don't think it should. I feel disconnected from her a lot because we're missing that, *and* foreplay.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Its a pretty normal thing for french kissing to drop off once you hit long term. Usually though, it at least happens during sex. If the only way she does it is when she is tipsy, its very likely that she just doesnt enjoy it with you any more. Doesnt mean she is cheating, doesnt mean she wants out. I know with my XH2, I stopped french kissing him because he stopped making an effort to do it well.


It's common for people to bypass this and get straight to the heavier action. It lost it's appeal in HS and College...

But then again, some miss this small guesture and want it back. But yes it is common for even happy highly sexual couples to kind of "forget" about french kissing.


----------



## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

treyvion said:


> I don't agree. I think he has many positive affirmations that his wife enjoys her time with him and enjoys being in the same space.


So did I. I had the best marriage in the world. Except for the intimacy.

I wish I could go back to that happier time. Before I started to wonder "why?".


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

You're going to have to assert yourself and get your needs met. Start with bringing back the french kissing. Tell her you ARE going to kiss her deeply everyday, starting today, for at least 2 minutes straight. Then just do it (when she is not busy with her hands) and don't take no for an answer. Soon she'll be coming to you for the kisses.


----------



## secretmonkey (Jan 7, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> You're going to have to assert yourself and get your needs met. Start with bringing back the french kissing. Tell her you ARE going to kiss her deeply everyday, starting today, for at least 2 minutes straight. Then just do it (when she is not busy with her hands) and don't take no for an answer. Soon she'll be coming to you for the kisses.


Sounds like mouth-rape! :rofl:


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

secretmonkey said:


> Sounds like mouth-rape! :rofl:


Maybe this is part of your problem, then. If being assertive sounds funny to you, your wife will likely never understand what you are really needing and wanting from her.

You want passion? You want to feel that deep longing? Yet you find my suggestion funny? There's a disconnect there.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

secretmonkey said:


> Sounds like mouth-rape! :rofl:


Don't tell her, just do it. Do it several times a month, do not signal it, just do it and get at least thirty seconds in. Hold her deeply while you do it too, so if the tongue turns her off at least she can feel how close you want to be to her on the hold.


----------



## secretmonkey (Jan 7, 2014)

Worth a shot. Baby steps!


----------



## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

Well here is my 2 cents worth. I think she likes you, even loves you. You sound like a good guy and she enjoys being around you, spending time with you and even being married to you.

BUT, she is not physically attracted to you. Your wife probably has a low sex drive too. Sounds like it is the perfect marriage for her - as long as the sex is minimal.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

JustHer said:


> Well here is my 2 cents worth. I think she likes you, even loves you. You sound like a good guy and she enjoys being around you, spending time with you and even being married to you.
> 
> BUT, she is not physically attracted to you. Your wife probably has a low sex drive too. Sounds like it is the perfect marriage for her - as long as the sex is minimal.


The hand holding, the closeness when they are on the couch, and her wanting to join him on stupid trips for errands and thinks makes me feel like she IS attracted to him and loves being in the space with him.

It might be that she just doesn't see herself as a sexual freak... I mean people are allowed this right?


----------



## secretmonkey (Jan 7, 2014)

I think it's time for a serious sit-down talk. Failing that, MC. Thanks for the input, people.


----------



## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

Here is a good trick that really works if there is a baseline of attraction:

Put your mouth really close to hers like you are going to kiss her, but don't. Then back off ever so slightly and make her move her mouth 2-3 inches in your direction.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

wilderness said:


> Here is a good trick that really works if there is a baseline of attraction:
> 
> Put your mouth really close to hers like you are going to kiss her, but don't. Then back off ever so slightly and make her move her mouth 2-3 inches in your direction.


Does that really work? I'm trying to picture someone doing that to me and all I can think is me saying WTF are you doing and thinking it was a bit creepy. 

I'm not a big french kisser, I prefer kissing on the neck or other places. The no foreplay thing I don't get unless it's a specific event during foreplay that she doesn't enjoy. Some people aren't that touchy though, even with someone they are very attracted to. If it's a need for you she should be trying for your benefit though, maybe each make some suggestions of things you do like and see if you can both give and take?


----------



## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Does that really work? I'm trying to picture someone doing that to me and all I can think is me saying WTF are you doing and thinking it was a bit creepy.
> 
> I'm not a big french kisser, I prefer kissing on the neck or other places. The no foreplay thing I don't get unless it's a specific event during foreplay that she doesn't enjoy. Some people aren't that touchy though, even with someone they are very attracted to. If it's a need for you she should be trying for your benefit though, maybe each make some suggestions of things you do like and see if you can both give and take?


Yes, it really works. Sometimes if I start to give the girl a peck but don't finish the peck it works better. The woman's natural inclination is to respond in kind- a peck for (what she thinks is) a peck and when she doesn't get the kiss, she will instinctively want it. Then when I move my mouth back ever so slightly she is forced to move her mouth towards me, and the peck turns into a deep kiss. It sounds manipulative but it is actually very sexy and fun when executed properly.

BUT if the woman is not attracted to you, it won't work. She doesn't have to be super attracted to you, and this type of thing can enhance whatever attraction there is, but there has to be something there in the first place or she won't even want the peck. That's a very bad sign in my experience.

I would also like to say that I can't ever recall in my life a woman being attracted and not being interested in french kissing- at least during sex. Woman will often _say_ they aren't into something but the body takes over and has different ideas than the rational brain.


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

MrK said:


> I'll take that bet.
> 
> This board is RIDDLED with men who have had their worlds crash when the love of their lives give them the ILYBINILWY speech (I love you but I'm not in love with you). I'll bet EVERY SINGLE ONE would agree that their situation is nearly IDENTICAL to what you describe. You described my marriage to T.
> 
> ...


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

OP simple 2 things.
1) Just keep your eyes open and look for those additional signs IF they happen.
2) IF they happen absolutely dont do a weak confront and ask her about it. Come back here for instructions.

I honestly hope deeply I am wrong.

There are DOZENS of threads like this like yours that ended very very badly with them swearing no way in hell there was cheating. 

If I were to bet on any one particular thing that this is at this moment it would be the following: 

There is someone, probably at work that she fancies. He may be a player chatting her up or just some great looking guy at work who has been nice. Nothing has happened. Yet.

Keep your eyes open and your mouth SHUT!


----------



## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Give us a little more data here. How's your teeth? Her teeth? Has she gained weight since you've been together? Stretch marks? Any changes she might be embarrassed by?

Her cuddling up to you and relaxation with alcohol make me think she's got self esteem issues. Take off your rose colored love goggles and really look at her objectively. Has something changed about her appearance that she might have a problem with?

ETA: I don't agree with weightlifter that it looks like an affair, but I do agree with the advice he gave you. Eyes open and mouth shut until you figure it out.


----------



## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

secretmonkey said:


> I think it's some weird OCD/hang-up thing, and maybe some self-esteem or fear of intimacy issues.


Is it possible she was sexually abused in childhood? Some of what you said raises red flags for this. I didn't like french kissing and was a modesty gestapo before engaging in recovery from CSA. (My daddy french kissed me- BLECH!)

Art 4 a Purpose . Org -  Symptoms of Adult Survivors of Childhood Sexual Abuse


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> Give us a little more data here. How's your teeth? Her teeth? Has she gained weight since you've been together? Stretch marks? Any changes she might be embarrassed by?
> 
> Her cuddling up to you and relaxation with alcohol make me think she's got self esteem issues. Take off your rose colored love goggles and really look at her objectively. Has something changed about her appearance that she might have a problem with?
> 
> ETA: I don't agree with weightlifter that it looks like an affair, but I do agree with the advice he gave you. Eyes open and mouth shut until you figure it out.


Oh, they can be in perfect shape and beauty and still have self esteem issues.

Some folks find it hard to "party hardy" without the alcohol, this would include going closer to the freak side of things too.


----------



## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Oh, they can be in perfect shape and beauty and still have self esteem issues.
> 
> Some folks find it hard to "party hardy" without the alcohol, this would include going closer to the freak side of things too.


No doubt, but this is a change in behavior so I'm looking for the cause of the change.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> No doubt, but this is a change in behavior so I'm looking for the cause of the change.


Same way a real conservative person who would never be in embarrasing positions, is a life of the party party animal, hopped up on the alcohol.

It inverts certain people.


----------



## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

alexm said:


> she really ****ed me up by keeping me around all those years and pretending everything was fine with herself and our marriage. It's only been in the last couple of years that I've been able to let go of the resentment she caused me by essentially wasting my entire 20's and half of my 30's. The prime of my life.


My marriage and my adult life summed up in three sentences.

I fear you are ignoring this message, OP. Do so at your peril.


----------



## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Same way a real conservative person who would never be in embarrasing positions, is a life of the party party animal, hopped up on the alcohol.
> 
> It inverts certain people.


I think you're missing my point. She didn't need the alcohol before, now she does. Something has increased her inhibitions and I'm trying to find out what.


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

MrK said:


> My marriage and my adult life summed up in three sentences.
> 
> I fear you are ignoring this message, OP. Do so at your peril.


OP, don't be scared or overly concerned about my story, or MrK's, and don't read too much into the replies re: cheating from the others.

It sounds like you and your wife have something good going, with a few minor issues that need to be dealt with. Just work on the communication aspect and get a response as to why she won't at least kiss you deeply. Never mind the other things at the moment, focus on the kissing, without going overboard on her.

There has to be a reason for her to not want to give this to you, and it's only fair that she lets you in on it.

There are two people here who have now let you know that their wives checked out, starting with pretty much exactly your story. If this place was around back when I was going through that, I may have been able to nip that in the bud and get her back, or at the very least, not have had my time wasted and years lost.

Cheating? Doubtful, based on your description. I wouldn't worry about that.

In the early stages of checking out? Possible, but can be salvaged, as it's early. THAT is what I'd be worried about.

I do believe that spouses who start this process can be brought back, however, if it's not too late already. My advice is to not LET her do these things, or at least fight for it. I don't mean give her an ultimatum (those are bad), and I don't mean force her to do things she doesn't want. I DO mean, show her how important these things are to you.

This isn't dirty sex acts, or threesomes, or something somebody can be diametrically opposed to, this is kissing. Kissing! Something 2 people in love with each other do, no matter how old they are!

She doesn't realize what she's doing, or why, and then one day, it'll occur to her that she no longer has any intimacy in her life, nor a partner who fights for it, and she'll have resentment, anger and feel very, very alone. THAT'S when I'd start worrying about somebody else entering the picture.

It also makes it incredibly easy for the person who is doing this to wake up one day, and decide they "love you, but they're not in love WITH you", simply because there's no longer anything resembling an exciting marriage anymore - even if they were the ones to start the ball rolling in the first place.

At the end of the day, she wants a person who not only respects HER, but also respects himself. And you can show her this by being firm with regards to your wants and needs, and your ability to compromise with her about these things. Even though some people (my past self included) think that turning into a "yes dear, whatever you say, dear" type of husband is what she wants, trust me, she doesn't. There's not a lot of things that are less sexy to women.

My wife does things for me that I know she would rather not, but she can live with them because she knows it makes me happy. I do the same for her. Every marriage should operate on this principle. No two people are going to share the same views on everything, including likes and dislikes. But if it makes my wife happy, and doesn't make me unhappy, I'll do it for her, and not complain one bit. I would love for my wife to give me bj's. It only happens during sex. She'd rather not do that as a solo act for various reasons, so I accept that I still get that as part of other things. Compromise. I'm happy, she's happy.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Oh, they can be in perfect shape and beauty and still have self esteem issues.
> 
> Some folks find it hard to "party hardy" without the alcohol, this would include going closer to the freak side of things too.


I think back to my younger days. I was a very serious person and probably perceived as the person least likely to have a wild streak ... that is until alcohol was involved. Alcohol removed my concerns about responsibilities and keeping it together and I became completely uninhibited. Some of the crazy stuff I did ... it's kind of surprising I survived my youth 

When you are starting a relationship, you are focused on that individual and you are willing to put other worries aside. When you are together, you have no responsibilities or cares except having fun. Fast forward to marriage and now you are in real life and you have to make an effort to carve out that time from the the responsibilities and concerns of daily life. Some people are really good at it and some aren't.

Just a thought but perhaps the alcohol does that for her and she's able to put everything else aside and just have fun.


----------



## Mistyfied (Sep 27, 2013)

wilderness said:


> Here is a good trick that really works if there is a baseline of attraction:
> 
> Put your mouth really close to hers like you are going to kiss her, but don't. Then back off ever so slightly and make her move her mouth 2-3 inches in your direction.


I hate it when my husband does that. It's uncomfortable to have to strain to reach my husband for a kiss.


----------



## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

wilderness said:


> Here is a good trick that really works if there is a baseline of attraction:
> 
> Put your mouth really close to hers like you are going to kiss her, but don't. Then back off ever so slightly and make her move her mouth 2-3 inches in your direction.


Haha...

Just for the sheer hell of it, I gave this a try yesterday afternoon, when my wife and I were home at the end of the workday at about 5 o'clock. We'd kissed, pecked, etc. I moved back in, gave a light brush of her lip and then drew back a bit. She followed me, wanting more, and found me with a deeper kiss. Gave her another kiss, another brush and pulled back a little bit. This time she put her hands on the back of my head, pulled me back in started french kissing. The next thing I knew, we were naked and she was on top of me.

It all just started with little pecks with no more intent than a small sign of affection.

Got her wound up, I suppose. She remained very affectionate through the evening, and then attacked me once again at bedtime.

I slept well.


----------



## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

sh987 said:


> Haha...
> 
> Just for the sheer hell of it, I gave this a try yesterday afternoon, when my wife and I were home at the end of the workday at about 5 o'clock. We'd kissed, pecked, etc. I moved back in, gave a light brush of her lip and then drew back a bit. She followed me, wanting more, and found me with a deeper kiss. Gave her another kiss, another brush and pulled back a little bit. This time she put her hands on the back of my head, pulled me back in started french kissing. The next thing I knew, we were naked and she was on top of me.
> 
> ...


Nice. So you'd been having intimacy issues and that solved it?


----------



## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

MrK said:


> Nice. So you'd been having intimacy issues and that solved it?


You got it. She told me she doesn't love me anymore and never will again, but that she'll never leave me. I'm trapped in this life!





Oh.

Wait.

No, we haven't been having those issues, and things have been excellent for the last number of months. Out of our nearly 15 years together, we had a rough patch from last Feb to Sept, where we weren't quite as close as we'd always been. We had a couple of fairly big talks about it, figured out we each had as much to apologize for as the other, (letting kids, etc, take precedence) have been learning how to better discuss problems instead of each of us avoiding arguments, and have been moving on quite happily. The intimacy is very satisfying, as it was for the vast majority of our relationship.

This will probably be the lone time I respond to you, regarding this, as I have a pretty good idea where it's going from here.

I am sorry for what your life has become, but it doesn't mean that everybody will follow in your footsteps.


----------



## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

sh987 said:


> This will probably be the lone time I respond to you, regarding this, as I have a pretty good idea where it's going from here.


Oh? Please, do tell.

And you don't think that clarification would have helped a little more?


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> I think you're missing my point. She didn't need the alcohol before, now she does. Something has increased her inhibitions and I'm trying to find out what.


Oh, your making sure she doesn't need beer goggles to be that desiring of the sex? Wheras before she was enamoured and enough into you that it provided enough "juice" for her to be horny and seductive?


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

sh987 said:


> Haha...
> 
> Just for the sheer hell of it, I gave this a try yesterday afternoon, when my wife and I were home at the end of the workday at about 5 o'clock. We'd kissed, pecked, etc. I moved back in, gave a light brush of her lip and then drew back a bit. She followed me, wanting more, and found me with a deeper kiss. Gave her another kiss, another brush and pulled back a little bit. This time she put her hands on the back of my head, pulled me back in started french kissing. The next thing I knew, we were naked and she was on top of me.
> 
> ...


that's great! If she would have pulled away that would have been a different outcome.


----------



## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Oh, your making sure she doesn't need beer goggles to be that desiring of the sex? Wheras before she was enamoured and enough into you that it provided enough "juice" for her to be horny and seductive?


Either that or she may have become ashamed about some aspect of herself so needs the booze to overcome those inhibitions.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> Either that or she may have become ashamed about some aspect of herself so needs the booze to overcome those inhibitions.


True. If it is a mother she may be hyperfocused on being a "good" mother, and sometimes it causes them to become much more prudish and alot of the old sex stuff is out of bounds or too nasty.


----------

