# Co-Parenting Isn't Working



## Akfranklin2014 (May 9, 2017)

I am a stepmom to my husband's two kids, a boy and a girl, 4 and 8 respectively. They each have a different mom. He and I have been married a little over a year and together about three years. I'll start by saying we've never had any issues with my stepson's mother. In fact his baseball coach recently commented about how amicable our relationship was and his mother responded "There's no point in fighting. The only person hurt from that is the child." All the issues we've had have been with my SD's mother. 

About a year into our relationship is when we found out he was her father. He knew she existed, but was told he wasn't her father and didn't believe that he was until they took the DNA test when she filed for child support. From the first day the results came back there's been problems. First, my SD's mother and her grandmother didn't want either of us to see the child. But he insisted, saying he wanted to be involved. Then she told him she didn't want me around while he was getting to know their daughter. He disagreed, telling her we should both get to know her at the same time so there wouldn't be any awkwardness when she came for visits. She finally agreed. Fast forward through the first year or so as she was getting to know the new family members she'd gained and it was a bit rough to start with, especially with a custody agreement not yet in place. 

There is now an agreement in place and my SD is 4. Every time they meet for him to pick her up or drop her off it seems her mother has something different to yell at him about. At first I used to go with him, but once I noticed it caused more drama I decided not to go anymore to cut down on the drama (didn't really work though). The only times I do go is when it's absolutely necessary (like right after work when my office is closed). It's rare at best. 

On our wedding anniversary this year, it was our weekend with my SD and it was Sunday so time to take her back to her mom. We had dinner reservations shortly after so it only made sense for me to go with him. She had asked him shortly before if he could keep her until the next day. He said no because his mother, who is retired and is usually our babysitter when we're both at work, had an auction to work and couldn't keep her. When she arrived at our normal meeting spot to pick her up and saw he was dressed up to go out, she got angry. "So you can't keep our daughter until tomorrow because you're going out to celebrate an unsuccessful marriage?" I stayed in the car and didn't say anything, which is what I usually do. I've gotten out a few times to speak, but most of the time I don't because she's usually yelling at him about something. So we left and we're headed to the restaurant when she calls to chew him out because my SD told her that we had white chocolate covered pretzels and didn't give my SD any. She proceeded to chew at me then too, saying "Whatever my daughter asks for when she's with you you are to give it to her." I responded, probably in a way I shouldn't have, telling her she doesn't buy my groceries or pay the bills and can't say what goes on in my house. She completely ruined the evening, which is what I'm sure she was going for. My SD never even asked for any of the pretzels at our house and we were getting ready to eat dinner that night. 

This isn't the only incident. It's always something. One time she brought a live kitten with her, saying my SD wanted to bring it with her to Daddy's, saying that the mediator said the drop offs and pick ups might be easier for the child if she brings something with her . The mediator meant a toy or stuff animal or something. We all know she didn't mean a live animal. This time my husband put his foot down. He refuses to take the kitten with us and she takes it back home, but not before saying "I'm going to write this down and take it back to the judge that you refused to let her take it." 

Another time, before he and I got married, I'd entered a photography contest to win a photography package for our wedding. To enter we had to tell our story to the photographer and she would post them with our picture for people to vote on. My SD's mother saw this and flipped out, saying I said that my SD belonging her my husband ruined our lives. I did not say that, what I did say was that it turned out world upside down, which it did. Whose world wouldn't be changed finding out they or their significant or have a two year daughter. This was included in the story because it was after we found out that he proposed to me. She also constantly bringing up the Facebook post, saying I never wanted her around and that ruined our lives. 

Today was his time to have her during the week. She called him and told him the child was crying and screaming saying she was scared to go to Daddy's because I was mean. She told him she was going to call social services and have me investigated to see what I'd done to her daughter. She said she was going to take him back to court and have the judge put into their paperwork that I cant be around when she is visiting. Once she arrived to drop her off, she told him that I better not come with him to drop her off on Friday because she and her mother were both going to hit me. 

I've done nothing at all to my SD. I treat her like she's my own. I do not physically discipline her because that's not my place. I will ground her or send her to her room when it's warranted. Once my husband left with her, he asked her about what happened and she said it was because I wouldn't let her play blocks or play with her brother. The incident she's talking about was Thanksgiving weekend. It was Sunday evening and we were getting ready to leave the house to take her back to her mother. She already had on her coat and shoes. Her brother was playing his 2DS and wanted to play alone. She asked to play with him and I told her he's playing my himself right now. She then asked if she could play with her blocks. This isn't normally a problem but we were just getting ready to leave the house to take her back home so I said no. 

I should also note that her mother and grandmother never say no to her, and they've told my husband they will never say no to her and will always give her what she wants. If they make something for dinner that she doesn't like, she just tells them what she wants and they go get it, whether it's fast food or cookies or cake or candy. They have no bedtime for her and she pretty much rules their house. My husband and I have rules at our house and try our best to give her some disciple so she won't be out of control later. But every time she goes back home and then comes back we have to start l over again because they let her do and have whatever she wants. 

I can't really say anything because I'm just the stepparent. I have no rights when it comes to my SD and her mom purposely leaves me out of everything, saying only she and her father need to know what's going on. I feel differently. I feel like I do need to know what's going on in the event my husband has to work when she's with us or if anything were to happen. I'm in no way trying to replace her and I would never try. I'm just lost about what to do because this is all so stressful. My husband has talked about going to email and text only contact, no phone calls unless it's a child is being rushed to the hospital kind of emergency. He's also considered a using a facility that monitors drop offs and pick up. The person dropping off would take her there 15 minutes before they meet, then leave (and this would be mandatory. The person monitoring would keep the child occupied until the person picking up arrived. This costs $35 per drop off and he really doesn't want to go that route. 

Anyone have any suggestions for me, him, or both? Neither of us really know what to do anymore.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Your husband should wear a hidden VAR (voice activated recorder) anytime he is hear the your SD's mother. You will have not see if your state is a one party, or two party state for recording. What that means is that some states have a law that says that only one party in a conversation have to give permission to be recorded. Other states have laws that say that all parties much give consent.

But in a 2 party state, I personally, would still record but never let her know. I would keep the VAR on me in a place that she would never see. He can protect himself that way.

From what you describe, I would not be surprised if she accuses him of assault or something else just to get him out of her daughter's life. He needs protection. Shoot, until he gets supervised exchanges, all exchanges should be in a public venue where you can video record from a distance.

Then he needs to go to a lawyer and a court order to have the exchange of your DS with a neutral party. What I mean by that is that the mother drops the daughter off at some supervised place. Then after the mother leaves, he picks up his daughter. ... and visa versa when he returns his daughter to her mother. There are places that provide this service for a fee.


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## Akfranklin2014 (May 9, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Then he needs to go to a lawyer and a court order to have the exchange of your DS with a neutral party. What I mean by that is that the mother drops the daughter off at some supervised place. Then after the mother leaves, he picks up his daughter. ... and visa versa when he returns his daughter to her mother. There are places that provide this service for a fee.




Virginia is a one party state. I know that from working in a call center lol! Also we have actually discussed the supervised exchanges and the place they can exchange for a fee. In our area it's $35 per exchange so it would be $70 each week. We didn't want it to get to this point but it's getting ridiculous.


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## Akfranklin2014 (May 9, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Your husband should wear a hidden VAR (voice activated recorder) anytime he is hear the your SD's mother. You will have not see if your state is a one party, or two party state for recording. What that means is that some states have a law that says that only one party in a conversation have to give permission to be recorded. Other states have laws that say that all parties much give consent.



With her threatening me I'm torn about us dropping her off today. My mother-in-law says I should take a cop. Part of me wants to go to show I'm not afraid of her threats, but part of me wants not to go just to avoid any more drama.



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## pragmaticGoddess (Nov 29, 2017)

This woman sounds like she is very mean. It must be very tough. Just remember not to stoop to her level and don’t give her an opportunity to twist what you say to her into false accusations. I feel sorry for that little girl in the centre of it. I’m so glad you’re treating her like your own because her own mother and grandmother are not certainly treating her properly, though they may think they are. She needs boundaries and discipline.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Do pick up/drop off at the police station parking lot.

Can you talk to the judge about her not talking to either of you during pickup/drop off unless it directly relates to the kid?

She is verbally abusing both of you.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Yeah, it sounds like there is no real possibility of anything resembling coparenting with this one. No doubt you have even more stories than what you have posted here.

My ex wife is diagnosed NPD, and is a real piece of work. The first couple of years with my ex wife made what you have posted here seem like a cake walk. Even now, five years after the divorce, she still says and does crap that is just out there, bizarre, ridiculous, infuriating, so what you have posted here is more than relatable. 

One thing to keep in mind, and that I have to remind my new wife of every now and then is that the things that are said, the threats that are made, demands, requests, pretty much everything out of their mouth is meaningless noise. The only authority is the judge, and until the judge signs an order, there is absolutely nothing you have to do or not do, and the liklihood of a judge ordering you to serve specific foods, or give into demands...the courts really don't like to get involved in the day to day operations of any household unless there is a clear and present physical danger to the child, which it sounds in your case there is nothing close to that. There is also no way, unless you are a convicted pedophile or something that a judge would even entertain prohibiting the daughter from being around you regardless of what biomom threatens. The courts are also not fond of having pointless, minor crap filed over and over again.

Obviously a VAR is good for cya just in case, and if you actually suspect that real actual violence could occur, then consideration needs to be given to that. Perhaps doing the exchange at a local police station.

Just do your thing however you see fit to do it. If it goes against the ridiculous blather of the biomom, so be it. If it happens to coincide with something she wants, then again, so be it. I know it is much easier said than done, but run your household however you see fit to do so. Go about your business as usual, set your rules, plan you menus, go on your outings. Sure, the biomom will run her mouth, make lots of threats, demands, criticize, cut you down, but the biomoms noise is completely irrelevant, and is meaningless. You don't have to do anything or give any thought to the biomom until a judge orders otherwise.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Your husband might need a little help with learning to stand up to his ex-wife. There is a magical phrase to disarm crazy drama driven people that he should learn to say with a stern face and without getting baited into her arguments. It is "are you finished?". That simple phase conveys that he not going to play her game and all her nagging/berating is just going to fall on deaf ears. That phrase should be about the limit of any verbal altercation he has with her.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Can you make the swap at her school or the school of the older child? Have the school SRO stand in or

nearby for the exchange. That's what they're paid for. If not that... police station and have a corrections 

office stand in or nearby. Record the exchanges and try to get it on tape @ school or police station

drop-offs. With an officer there, I doubt she will show her ass as much. But if she does..... you have

officer(s) as witnesses when your H brings this to the judge's attention. That woman is miserable 

and wants to try her best to make you and your Hs lives just as miserable. 

She sounds like the type who would falsify DV against him if he stood up to her. Reason recordings 

and with law enforcement present are paramount.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

You posted this same exact post a while back. It was deja vu reading it this morning. 

You just have to "not give a fck" and not let it affect your life. Sucks but what can you do other than praying she has a heart attack or dies in a car crash? 

Try your best to raise the child correctly but most likely she'll end up like her mother unfortunately. The consequences of having unprotected sex with a crazy woman. Is the mother an addict (drugs or booze)? Best case scenario for you is to get 100% custody if the mother is shown to be unfit.


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## Akfranklin2014 (May 9, 2017)

Chuck71 said:


> Can you make the swap at her school or the school of the older child? Have the school SRO stand in or
> 
> nearby for the exchange. That's what they're paid for. If not that... police station and have a corrections
> 
> ...




I wish some of this were possible. She lives in a different state than us so we have a public place that's halfway between the two houses to exchange her but it may have to change. We can't use the older child's school because he goes to school too far out from her for her to drive that far. 

My husband also believes she would falsify something against him and apparently has before. That's why I was going with him to begin with because he didn't trust her enough to be alone with her or even with her mother there. I don't know what he's planning to do, if anything.


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## Akfranklin2014 (May 9, 2017)

GuyInColorado said:


> You posted this same exact post a while back. It was deja vu reading it this morning.
> 
> You just have to "not give a fck" and not let it affect your life. Sucks but what can you do other than praying she has a heart attack or dies in a car crash?
> 
> Try your best to raise the child correctly but most likely she'll end up like her mother unfortunately. The consequences of having unprotected sex with a crazy woman. Is the mother an addict (drugs or booze)? Best case scenario for you is to get 100% custody if the mother is shown to be unfit.




I noticed that myself actually right after I posted. Just goes to show it keeps happening. As far as I know she's not into drugs or alcohol. The only time I've heard of her drinking is when the child is with us for the weekend. Judges and social workers tend not to see anything wrong with mother here because they act like angels in court. I'm looking into getting him a VAR to carry with him from now on. They have to go to back to amend the agreement for when she starts school next year, so he'll probably bring up other things then. 


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## Akfranklin2014 (May 9, 2017)

I should note that the entire post isn't viewable in the app unless you click web view. I thought it was cut off but when I tried to edit it the whole thing was there lol. Learn something new everyday.


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## Akfranklin2014 (May 9, 2017)

So I just found out that the child's mom and grandmother don't trust me. They think I've done something to her when my husband isn't around because the child cried and said she was scared to go to daddy's because I'm mean. My husband asked her about this when he picked her up yesterday before he picked me up for work. She told him it was because I said no to her playing with blocks and playing with her brother. 

She is always stuck to her brother. And I get that they don't see each other a lot, but he doesn't always want to play with her. I can't force him. And the block situation...geez. They're put away because they will get broken or someone will get hurt if they're left out. There's only been two times I've ever said no to her playing with blocks. The first was it was around 11 at night and we were all heading to bed. The second was we were minutes away from walking out the door to take her back to her mother. So in those situations, no she wasn't allowed to play with the blocks and my husband agreed with me. 

She's now threatening cops and threatening to take him back to court over that. This again leads back to her not saying no to her. If she lived in a world where both of her parents told her no, it would be normal and she wouldn't run back to the other one every time she hears it.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Your husband should wear a hidden VAR (voice activated recorder) anytime he is hear the your SD's mother. You will have not see if your state is a one party, or two party state for recording. What that means is that some states have a law that says that only one party in a conversation have to give permission to be recorded. Other states have laws that say that all parties much give consent.
> 
> But in a 2 party state, I personally, would still record but never let her know. I would keep the VAR on me in a place that she would never see. He can protect himself that way.
> 
> ...


Would it be legal in a 2 party state to say, I am recording this conversation?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Do what you said
'My husband has talked about going to email and text only contact, no phone calls unless it's a child is being rushed to the hospital kind of emergency. He's also considered a using a facility that monitors drop offs and pick up. The person dropping off would take her there 15 minutes before they meet, then leave (and this would be mandatory. The person monitoring would keep the child occupied until the person picking up arrived. This costs $35 per drop off and he really doesn't want to go that route.'

Sounds like the only thing you can do.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Franklin, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational jealousy, paranoia, temper tantrums, verbal abuse, controlling attitude, inability to trust, feeling of entitlement, lack of empathy, and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) and, to a lesser extent, for NPD (Narcissistic PD). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your SD's mother has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit strong traits of it. I suspect that, if your H were to take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs, he would find most of them to sound very familiar.

I mention this because, as you've already learned over the past 3 years, co-parenting with a high-conflict individual does not work. Such a person will try to make your life miserable and will likely try to alienate your H from his own daughter by using the child as a weapon. In these circumstances, the usual advice is to do "parallel parenting." See, e.g., Parallel Parenting: When Co-Parenting Doesn't Work, an article written by a family law group in New Jersey.

Other good resources on this issue are the blog Parallel Parenting, the article High Conflict Parenting, and the blog Top Ten Rules for Low-Contact with High-Conflict Personalities. I also recommend BPDfamily's article, Are the Children of a BPD Parent Likely to Suffer Emotional Abuse?

Finally, please keep in mind that -- if your SD's mother exhibits strong BPD traits -- it will be IMPOSSIBLE for you to build up a store of good will that you can later draw on during the hard times. Trying to do so would be as foolish as trying to build a lasting sandcastle beside the sea. The reason is that a BPDer's perception of reality is largely dictated by the intense feeling she is experiencing AT THIS VERY MOMENT. Hence, no matter what concessions and sacrifices you make today, any appreciation that she currently feels will be washed aside by the next intense feeling flooding her mind. 

I mention this because it is important that you establish firm boundaries on the parallel parenting and be quick to enforce them using your attorney. Being generous or lenient likely will only reduce the contact time with your child and buy you no real concessions in the future. Again, it is impossible to build up a lasting store of good will with a BPDer. Take care, Franklin.


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## Akfranklin2014 (May 9, 2017)

Uptown said:


> Franklin, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational jealousy, paranoia, temper tantrums, verbal abuse, controlling attitude, inability to trust, feeling of entitlement, lack of empathy, and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) and, to a lesser extent, for NPD (Narcissistic PD). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your SD's mother has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit strong traits of it. I suspect that, if your H were to take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs, he would find most of them to sound very familiar.
> 
> I mention this because, as you've already learned over the past 3 years, co-parenting with a high-conflict individual does not work. Such a person will try to make your life miserable and will likely try to alienate your H from his own daughter by using the child as a weapon. In these circumstances, the usual advice is to do "parallel parenting." See, e.g., Parallel Parenting: When Co-Parenting Doesn't Work, an article written by a family law group in New Jersey.
> 
> ...




Believe it or not we've looked into parallel parenting, just not a whole lot. It actually sounds ideal in our situation, we just have to discuss it more between us. Thank you for the advice and the articles. We will be looking into that more.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

AF,

Yes Virginia is a one party state which means your H can LEGALLY RECORD THEIR CONVERSATIONS. He would be the one party, 

Virginia's wiretapping law is a "one-party consent" law. Virginia makes it a crime to intercept or record any "wire, oral, or electronic communication" unless one party to the conversation consents. Virginia Code § 19.2-62.

So Ele’s advice could save you $70/week. 




Akfranklin2014 said:


> Virginia is a one party state. I know that from working in a call center lol! Also we have actually discussed the supervised exchanges and the place they can exchange for a fee. In our area it's $35 per exchange so it would be $70 each week. We didn't want it to get to this point but it's getting ridiculous.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Akfranklin2014 said:


> Virginia is a one party state. I know that from working in a call center lol! Also we have actually discussed the supervised exchanges and the place they can exchange for a fee. In our area it's $35 per exchange so it would be $70 each week. We didn't want it to get to this point but it's getting ridiculous.


Keep in mind that the court would most likely order her to pay half of that fee. If she had to pay for this, she might start re-thinking her mean spirited attitude.

The one who is suffering the most from this is the daughter. Poor child.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

Akfranklin2014 said:


> \
> I can't really say anything because I'm just the stepparent.\.


Wrong. Sorry to be so blunt but, yes you can say whatever you want in your own home.

Other people have given good practical advice but I want to point out that as a stepparent, you have rights. Too many of us think we don't have the right to say anything. I would suggest that you tell the mother that in your home, your rules will be followed and that she has NOTHING to say about it. If she does not like that, then other arrangements will have to be made for the daughter and father to see each other. 

That's it. No discussion. Your home, your rules. Do not allow the ex spouse to invade your life and your marriage because that is precisely what she is doing.


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