# (mostly) EA revealed, problems solved, but hurts so much



## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

Hi,

It turns out my wife had an EA. Kind of. And physical too, but I don't think it counts. See below. 

First of all, we are both 33. We started dating (fell in love at first sight actually) at 18, moved in together at 26, got married and had our first child at 30. This progression might seem slow, but in our country (Southern Europe) it is normal for most people our age to be still living with their parents, so in fact it was rather quick. 

First four years were awesome. We were both students. We had great time together. Dating, traveling, partying, having sex up to six times per day... Ever been 20, w/o responsibilities and in love? That's what we were.

She started working when she got her degree, at 22. My school was five years, but I started working the same year because I wanted to be self-sustained too. Our jobs added a lot of stress to our lives in general, and our relationship in particular. There was a time she was working night shifts (at a 24/7/365 shop at the airport) with only one day off in 8, for example. And I, as a software developer, became haunted by deadlines. 

When I took my degree, at 23, I started a PhD, and continued working. This left us with very little time. In retrospect, my decision to go for a PhD (instead of, say, an MEng), was possibly the most stupid decision I ever took in my life, with an enormous personal cost. 

We would basically see each other very Saturday, at her house, for pizza and sex. 

Our life became boring. And our vacation times started to diverge, to the point that we had very few days for trips and excursions. 

Nevertheless, at 24, we managed to take a nice Euro-trip together. Had been our dream since 18, the two of us, for fifteen days, different city every day, and we made it. 

When I got home from the trip, about half an hour after she got to her own home, the phone rang. It was her. She had just received a letter, informing her that she had earned a one-year scholarship for a master's degree in the UK, starting in a couple of weeks. 

We were both very happy, because this degree would be her ticket to a "real", nice paying job, and to a better life for both of us. 

Also, we both felt that a year apart would give us a sense of perspective regarding our relationship. We had been together since 18 as I said, and it had already started to gather entropy. 

_(to be continued)_


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Really?


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## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

I will always remember the day I drove her to the airport as one of the saddest days of my life. (although there were much sadder days to come, it still is a good candidacy for Top 10).

I picked her up from her house. She was sad. All the way to the airport I was trying to cheer her up. Then, we reached the departures. She picked up her suitcase, waved good by with tears in her eyes, and moved on. I waved good by, smiled, and turned my back. And that's when I started crying. 

And stopped about 36 hours later. When she called me, and told me she had reached her destination, found the dorm, was trying to get accustomed to the new place, was missing me as hell. 

For the next two weeks, until the courses started and she found a couple of friends, she would call me every day, crying and saying how much she missed me, how much she wanted to get back, how scared she was of being alone there and so on. 

Me, OTOH, was even sadder. I started getting stoned every day. In retrospect, I believe I spent almost all my waking hours that year completely stoned, with very few exceptions. 

One exception was in November. When I got the plane, and then two trains, and met her at the place she was studying. We were both eager to see each other, but I could immediately tell something was wrong. She was distant, cold, and frankly, hostile at times. She had met new people (mostly Greeks and Spaniards), and they were partying, dancing and getting drunk almost every day. This was the year 2004. Greeks and Spaniards were spending like there was no tomorrow, and part of that spending was sending their youth in Northern Europe for crazy "student" life. It was like the Spring Break in the US, only throughout the whole year. 

And my girlfriend was caught in the middle of it. And liked it a lot. 

I, on the other hand, didn't like it, and made it evident. 

Bottom line, another very sad day of my life is the day she led me to the train station. I felt she was inside something and I was positively outside. I felt she was happy to send me back, and in fact she was. 

She had sex with one of the party people, which I will call T, immediately after I left. Twice. Not very good sex, but sex nevertheless.

_to be continued_


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## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

She only admitted it a month ago, but I was always suspecting it. Anyway, this sex was not really the problem. She was 24, in another country, doing all kinds of things that usually lead to sex, unmarried, curious [she had only been with me at the time], peer pressure was intolerable...

I was actually surprised she only had sex with a single guy and only two times, and still believe there was also at least one more, although she won't admit it. 

The thing is, the second guy, if he existed, really was just sex. Really meant nothing. It was like masturbating with help.

Whereas the two times she went with T, though never repeated (to the best of my knowledge), where his ticket for a 9 year emotional affair, and almost lead us to separation (and, later, divorce), thrice. 

_to be continued_


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## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

T left the town before XMas. He had been there to study during the previous year, and had actually prolonged his stay to deliver his dissertation.

My girlfriend got home in XMas with her curiosity satisfied, and, like many cheaters, feeling guilty as hell. She also acknowledge she hadn't treated me well when I had come there, and said I couldn't imagine how sorry she was for her behavior (true: I couldn't). 

We spent excellent holidays together. And then, when she got back, we would chat countless times per day, and also talk in Skype. When the summer came I went back there, stayed two weeks, and then we went for another two-week Euro-trip, and then two more weeks there. It was possibly the best summer of my whole life. And hers, too. 

Then I left her there for a month to complete her dissertation, and exactly one year after she had left, she got back to me.

What I didn't know was, throughout the whole year, she would also chat with and call T almost every day. She would tell him everything. And they would get closer and closer. It was not exactly erotic. But it was very emotional. 

_to be continued_


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

I'm still waiting to read the line where "it doesn't count".


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## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

The next year we basically reverted to our life before the master's degree. I would see her once or twice per week, for pizza, sex, maybe a cinema. I also continued drug abuse. She did find a good job, and we started thinking of moving in together. 

T on the other hand, came for three months in our hometown, as part of his never ending studies. She told me he was a very good friend of her, that she liked the way they were having fun, and if I was OK she would like to go out with him and her friends, what with me not liking to go out and everything.

I trusted her so completely, I let her do that. Also, I can remember myself saying "ok. These guys will take care of her going out needs, and she will stop bugging me about it". I wasn't thinking clearly, to say the least. But I remember I did trust her. I really did think it was just friendship. 

One day, a friend of mine saw them together outside, and told me what she saw didn't look that friendly to her. I dismissed her, and told her that I trust my girlfriend completely, and she was misunderstanding what she was seeing. She admitted she hadn't seen any signs of actual intimacy, that what she saw just didn't feel right, but might have been right after all.

Then he left town, and our relationship entered a strange state. On the one hand it was clear we were not satisfied from each other. But we attributed it to the fact that we could no longer hang out like students, that we had to move in together and start another chapter in our life. 

In June she asked me if I was OK with her going a couple of days vacation with some girlfriends from the UK. I said of course I was OK. We had also booked our own vacation, a few days before she would go to that.

At the time, our trust was so complete, I had her email password. I had never thought of using it, and neither had see. It was just that I had created her hotmail account, and she had never thought of changing the password.

One afternoon they called me from the travel agent, to confirm some booking details for our vacation trip. I called her on her phone but she was not answering. I remembered she had booked the trip online, so I figured, since it was urgent, I should look into her account for the bookings. 

So I found out:
1) Tens of emails to/from him
2) Where they were addressing each other as "my love", "honey" and so on.
3) That she would go on holiday with him, and not with any girls.
4) That he was actively pushing her to dump me, and she was refusing. (because "it was not that simple", not because "it was out of the question")

I called her and told her what I found. Her initial response was "are you so low to look into other people's mailboxes?". The fact that she was trying to turn the tables made me furious, and I immediately ended the relationship, telling her I never want to hear from her again. 

That also shook her out of her fog. 

She must have called me 100 times the very same night, begging for forgiveness, trying to explain. I would just hang up. 

Next morning she convinced me she deserved a chance to explain. I agreed, and met her. I humiliated her completely and she took it like a champ. I kept telling her "I cannot believe you have someone like ME and would think of leaving him for someone like HIM. You are incredibly stupid, if anything else".

Then we had crazy sex "because I wanted to", although I did explain she shouldn't even dream that this would mean we were back together. And then I left her in her house and told her I don't love her any more and she should accept that we will never be together any more, and the sex was only to show her what she had chosen to throw away. "You go with T now, and have a nice vacation". 

She spent the next 15 days begging me for forgiveness and I spent the next 15 days dismissing her in the most humiliating and indifferent ways. 

_to be continued_


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## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

Eventually she convinced me to meet. And spoke calmly. And convinced me we were worth a chance. That she would never do such a thing again, and we would have a nice life, in our own house, with children, grow old together. One thing she said which I still believe was "real relationships have such problems, but it's whether you overcome her that matters".

I had to agree. Soon after that we moved in together. A couple of years later we started trying to conceive. 

The problem is, she never stopped talking to him. And telling him everything. And still using affectionate terms. Initially she wanted him just as a friend. And told him everything. Everything. For instance if something I did pissed her off, she would tell him. 

But he was no friend of hers. Having gone through their mails and chatlogs and everything, I can see how he was using every bit of information to undermine our relationship and advance himself. 

When I didn't want to go out with her, he made a point of emphasizing how frequently he went out. When I would leave her alone and go out with my friends, he would say I am certainly screwing around with girls, and anyway he would never leave her alone. Every time she was bored, angry, dissatisfied with our relationship in any way, he would remind her of the good times in the UK and how much fun they had. 

2009 was the worse year, because I finished my thesis, and was working overtime, and really had no time for anything. We must have gone out only once or twice for the best part of six months. And when at home, I was constantly writing my thesis. 

That's when he had the idea that they should have a trip back to the place where it all started. Have fun, get drunk, party, and who knows. I remember her asking me if I was ok with her going to the UK to reunite "with the girls", and me replying "why not?".

So they spent a week together in the UK. While I was at home, working overtime and writing my thesis. It was a 100% probability that they would also go physical (he was anticipating it like crazy, in fact, and she was more than tempted to say yes, and we all know what happens when two adults are on their own in a foreign country with tension having built up and the suchlike). But, to my amazing luck (and his great disappointment), a day before her trip she underwent a gyno procedure that rendered her genitals off-limits for a month. 

Other than that, they had great fun. And she has told me now that she was not feeling guilty. She was feeling like she deserved it, because I had been indifferent, and our life had been boring, and she wanted to travel and party and everything. 

And that was when the EA got strong. They would talk every day. "Feeling stronger and stronger feelings" as she wrote to her BFF. "But I cannot move in with him because there are no jobs in his city". "I feel secure with [Low EQ] but no exitement. On the other hand, I love him and want to have children with him. I am cursed!" Her chats and mails with T where full of heart emoticons, "my love" this, "my sweety" that.

At fall 09, I delivered my thesis and went of for mandatory military service. They had been anticipating it. Even went as far as buying tickets to a love destination for January, when I would be doing the border part of my service (and thus would be safely away with no way of communicating). 

_to be continued_


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## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

But when I was off for my military service, she went out of her fog. She has described it as life-changing experience.

"I will never travel with T again" she wrote to her BFF. "The house is so empty without [Low EQ]. I had never realized I loved him so much, that he meant so much to me. All I can think for is be there for him wherever he serves".

It was, in a sense, over with T during the first few weeks of my service. He never reached that close to breaking us up again. I have been through Skype logs from these days, where he is trying to make her admit that she loves him, that they will do things together etc, and she completely ignores him, or politely refuses. 

She felt sorry for him because he had invested a lot in my military service and didn't expect it to go that way. And he had stood up to her in her difficult times, or at least that's how she saw it. That's why she hesitated telling him directly that it was over. But it was.

On month 1, I got a 24hr leave for our hometown, and got her pregnant. Turns out 30 days w/o sex are excellent cure for low fertility. 

When she realized she was pregnant, she no longer could politely ignore him. She told him she was pregnant to my baby. His response was to ask if there was anything he could do to help her get rid of the baby. The fact that she kept talking to him after this, is one of the things that hurt me the most. Nevertheless, she explained to him that she wanted this baby, that she has chosen me, that we will get married and have this baby, that their EA was a gross mistake that would never be repeated, and that he should either accept it as her friend or be out of her way. 

He chose the first option. And they kept talking, although not every day. And I think that's when it started getting bad, because it was no longer a dating thing among singles. We were married now. Pregnant, and then with kids. And she kept confiding in him, and I hadn't had the slightest idea about all that.

_to be continued_


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

WTF!


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## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

After our baby was born, I changed a lot of things in my life. I quit pot and smoking. I started spending a lot of time with her and the baby. We moved to a bigger house. Discovered the joys of parenting. Even by single standards, our life has been much better as parents: we go out more often, we invite friends, have a lot of fun.

But the party people, lead by T, were undermining this. I've been through her mail, when she delivered, and it was all "I cannot believe that YOU chose such a quiet life". She would constantly complain that all her friends travel, and party, and have fun, while our life is basically finished. She developed post-partum depression, and I didn't deal with that as seriously as I should. 

And T was always there to undermine us. Advertising his wild life, mocking our parental obligations, flirting her at times when she was feeling lonely and abandoned...

She gradually understood she had to get rid of him completely. She told her BFF repeatedly that she should stop talking to him, and about a year and a half ago explicitly told her "I will never talk to him again, and if I do please shake me back to reality". She blocked him and the party people from all social media, wouldn't answer their mails etc. 

But she didn't keep her promise. She kept talking to him. I have asked her why she was doing that, and she said she just couldn't stand being lonely, and that he was at time the only person that would care. 

But, she faded him out. They would now exchange mails every month or so. And they would have stopped talking completely, except at some point he found out one of her major complaints about me: that I wasn't giving her dirty talk in bed. 

He exploited this information: started talking dirty to her, and got an immediate response. And their relationship reached its final status, which was sexting, with mails and SMS, about twice per month. She was deeply embarrassed by it, but couldn't stop it. 

There's mails where she tells him "please, don't send me such things again". And he replies "You mean you don't want me to tell you how I will *(#&(#& your Q#)#(5 you filthy little #*(%#*(%?"

And she would immediately succumb to this. I've read through a lot of their mails, and have seen the semantics of addiction and pavlovian reaction (on her part), and power game (on his part). Basically, he could turn her on whenever he wanted by talking dirty, and was enjoying this power. She didn't want this to happen, but couldn't resist the temptation.

At one particular mail, she is wishing him happy birthday. And asks him to imagine that they are having sex however and wherever he wants it. That she is #*%*# his #%# all the way in. And so on. She concludes "that's the kind of wishes people with our relationship send. Not 'happy birthday' and all that crap".

That mail was sent ten days after she delivered our second child. 

That hurt. That really hurt. 


_to be continued_


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

jack.c said:


> WTF!


ditto!


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## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

I entered this forum about the same period that email was sent. Because I didn't like our sex life. I was always the one wanting more sex. 

She had just delivered of course. There's bound to be changes in libido during a pregnancy. I understand that. I am no pig. But the fact that sex wasn't happening as frequently as it should wasn't really the problem. It was more the way it wasn't happening. It is one thing not to want sex. Making your partner feel like crap because he wants it is a very different thing altogether. 

There were two implicit lists, the way I saw it. One was the reasons why we couldn't have sex. There were 32 of them, ranging from headache to "you were bad to me that time in Italy 6 years ago". Any of them was sufficient for her to withhold sex, and do that in the rudest and most hostile manner.

The other list was the list of forbidden things during sex: no fingering, no back doors, no body shots, no sexy lingerie, no 69, not this, not that. 

Most items had been gradually added to the lists during the past ten years. And the lists wouldn't apply when she was in an exceptional good mood.

I initially went to the low sex section, and found out that I should throw some life into our relationship. Make it more first-date like. Try to show her that I care about her. And so on. 

I did that, and her response was rage. She told me I should accept that we will never be love birds again. That she doesn't want me to kiss her good morning. That each of us will have his own time. Bottom line: rage. 

That only left a third person as an explanation for her behavior. [in fact, she would frequently be verbally abusive towards me out of guilt and confusion after a sexting session with T, and there had been a sexting session that day].

But I pushed this explanation away. I figured it might be a post-partum thing after all. She did say she was sorry a few hour later, and we spent an excellent August, me having taken a month off work for the first time in my life, and the whole famiily spending quality time together. 

But when I got back to work, she switched to her previous behavior. 

So I installed a keylogger on her PC. 

To be honest, I was expecting to find something after a week or so. I was half-expecting an EA or even a PA with some new guy. 

I really wasn't expecting that the next day, after I left, and she sat on her PC, the first thing she would type after her password would be T's name (to reply to one of his emails, which was, admittedly, not particularly incriminating in content). I really thought that guy was over in 2006. 

I saw that on the key logs the same night, and, while she was sleeping, used the passwords to read all her mail and social media accounts. And found out everything I've written here, except that they had had sex when studying together (which was not explicitly mentioned but strongly implied), and their sexting sessions (she was using another mail account which I knew of, but didn't think of looking at the time).

The shock of discovering what had really happened in the past 9 years cannot be described in words. I didn't sleep that night. At all.

_to be continued
_


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

What part of this story doesn't count?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

I confronted her the next morning. I figured the smart thing was not to say everything I knew, but simply throw a bit of information and see how she would react.

So I told her "I know you are still talking to T. You are a horrible person". 

She denied it. She told me she hasn't talked to him since 2006. Him and all the people from her year in the UK. Because I wanted to. And this has cost her a lot, but she did it for me.

I told her I knew she was lying, because I saw in the router's logs that yesterday she sent an email to him (she doesn't know much about computers, and bought it). 

She immediately became enraged. Told me she has driven away all those people because of my paranoia, but they were good friends, and she tries to keep them informed of important news about her life, and in fact yesterday she had sent T a mail to let him know about our second child. 

I asked her when was the last time she talked to him, and said "I cannot remember. Probably XMas" (in fact I knew at the time she had mailed him on June, although I still didn't know about the sexting).

And then she started trying to turn the tables. She told me I was being paranoid. That she couldn't believe I'm jumping into such conclusions, accusing her of cheating, in front of our child. (in fact, she was the one screaming like crazy in front of our child. I had told her the moment the conversation started that we should better take the children to my parents for a few hours). "I cannot believe you forced our child to listen to such accusations about her mother, you paranoid *******".

I pretended that I was sorry. That I believed her, and she shouldn't make such a fuss. "C'mon honey, I said, you cannot possibly call be paranoid when I see an actual email to him". She said she didn't know whether she could forgive me(!)

And the conversation went on like that for a couple of hours. Then, all of a sudden, she said "i think it really is a good idea to take the kids to your parents, after all". Which I did. While I was away, she deleted all traces of their conversations (or so she thought), and changed passwords. 

And then when I got back, she acted hurt, and told me she personally believed she could never forgive me for accusing her of things like that, but would give it a try for our children's sake. 

This was the worst day of my life. Two days later I found the sexting mails, and hell broke loose. But this was the worst day of my life, because I knew she was lying to my face. And not only lying, but verbally abusing me. And not only verbally abusing me, but doing it in front of the children. 

There is more to come, but I want to stress that this particular day is the part I find extremely hard to overcome. Anything, anything else, I understand. But screaming accusations in front of the child, while she was guilty, I mean, WTF? How could she?

And she has admitted that this was the most embarrassing and unethical thing she has ever done, the one that would completely justify a D, the one she will spend the rest of her life trying to make up for. 

_to be continued_


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## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

workindad said:


> What part of this story doesn't count?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



the physical part man. Twice when drunk at her 24 when she was basically just someone I was hooking up with, at the other side of the continent, two months w/o sex, to the verge of breaking up with me, simply doesn't count as PA. All the rest counts, and it definitely falls within the EA spectrum. I'm not saying it doesn't suck, only that the physical part is something negligible given everything else.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

You are not rugsweeping. You are hiding under that very rug.

Could you have chosen more wrong a person to be the mother of your child?

The part you don't count and chose to ignore brought you guys to this point. Wake up.


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## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

What is this? Bible belt?

You can't possibly claim that what a young girl in a casual relationship does a couple of times when drunk determines her suitability for motherhood ten years later. 

For one thing, she's been with me more than two THOUSAND times since. In ways that you cannot possibly see for free in XXX sites. 25 last month. 2 yesterday. 

And I've been in a 15 year relationship with this woman. How many women have you had begging you for ATM twice in the same night after 15 years of relationship and two children?

So when I'm saying the physical part doesn't count, I bloody mean it doesn't. It really is like caring about the guys she kissed in the chick when she was in highschool. 

I understand that your mileage may vary.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Low EQ said:


> the physical part man. Twice when drunk at her 24 when she was basically just someone I was hooking up with, at the other side of the continent, two months w/o sex, to the verge of breaking up with me, simply doesn't count as PA. All the rest counts, and it definitely falls within the EA spectrum. I'm not saying it doesn't suck, only that *the physical part is something negligible given everything else.*


You are deluding yourself. The PA is a central to her years-long relationship with T. They are former lovers and she kept that fact hidden from you for years. 

Everything since is fallout from that. When he sexts your wife and tells her what he wants to do to her it is from _prior knowledge_. She knows what he's talking about intimately.

ETD: This why most on TAM have a no contact with exes/former lovers boundary.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Low EQ said:


> Not very good sex, but sex nevertheless.


:lol:


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## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

For another thing, I found out about it a month ago. Ten years after the fact, five years after I chose her as the mother of my child. 

You marry a virgin if you want. I'm sure she will be pretty faithful.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Low EQ said:


> For another thing, I found out about it a month ago. Ten years after the fact, five years after I chose her as the mother of my child.
> 
> You marry a virgin if you want. I'm sure she will be pretty faithful.


This is isn't a problem of sex before marriage. 

You're failing to make a connection. The person she had sex with aged 24 *is the same person* that she's had a nine year EA with. The same person that has spent years trying to get her to leave you for. That's why the PA is important.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

OK, so you wanted to tell your (long detailed) story here, yet you disagree with what people here are telling you but you don't say what you want now.

What are you looking for, what do you want to happen now?


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## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

Anyway.

Our quarrel on Saturday ended up with grade A make up sex, and her convinced that I had believed her. Like I said, this was positively the worst point in our relationship. Things have only been getting better ever since. Even when that was not immediately apparent. 

On Sunday I planned a romantic night, and acted more like T and less like me. We just sat there, hugged, listening to music, dancing a bit, making out... 

She talked to me about that time. She didn't reveal her relationship of course, but said as much as she could without actually revealing details. Actually since that night she hasn't been lying as such. More like gradually revealing the truth in small doses. 

She said the period in the UK was like a second puberty. That she did stupid things, and carried even more stupid things along the way, but the important thing was that she understood it and chose our life and not that life. She also said in 2009 I had become unbearable. Basically I was at work or writing the PhD, and when I wasn't, I was smoking pot or watching soccer with my friends. She felt amazingly lonely and bored, and took her many years to overcome that period. 

Next day, I found the sexting mails. They were very hardcore. At least at the time. I printed them out, changed her password, and run home to confront her. Also called my mom and told her to be at my house and pick up the kids because me and my wife had very, very serious things to discuss.

She got a text notification about the password change to her cellphone, and immediately called me. "Why did you do it?" she said, angrily. "Why did *I* do *anything*? Yea. DREAM that this will be our subject today." I replied and hang up the phone.

My mother had got home before me. She asked my wife what had happened, and she said "this time I've done something very bad. He will divorce me and he is right to do that". And when I came, my face must have been very terrifying, because my mom said to me (before leaving) "please. we are all humans. nobody is perfect. don't do anything you will regret". 

And then I confronted her with the printouts. Bottom line, she told me it was like porn to her. She really, really wanted dirty talk in her life, and this was the way to have it. She had never done anything physical with him. She almost left me in 2009, but didn't. She hated herself for everything. But just couldn't live without being treated like a ***** in bed. She thought she could, but she couldn't.

She also told me things about her childhood. I won't repeat them here. But they explained a lot about their behavior. And I have cross-referenced her claims, and found them to be true. Like I said previously, I really *should* have taken her post-partum depression more seriously. 

After a couple of hours, I decided she should prove her need for dirty talk. 

I don't know why I had refused to use dirty talk in bed before. I guess it just didn't come out. This time however it did come out pretty naturally, and it was the best sex of my life. About a million times better than the second best that far. Completely twisted, and lasted four hours. I was genuinely amazed at what dirty talk (coupled with guilt, I guess) was doing to her. 

When we were finished, she wrote a letter of no contact to him. She had me read it, and add anything I felt should be added. 

It was a productive day, more or less.

A couple of days later I freaked out. Couldn't breathe. Thought that our second child might not be mine. I told her. This really shook her. She seems never to have realized how serious consequences her betrayal could have had, until that point. She told me she would never, ever forgive herself for inflicting such a thing upon our child. But also insisted that she hadn't seen T since 2009, and she was ready for a paternity test any time. And if I had the slightest doubt, we should go for it, and she would never accuse me of anything if the test proved me wrong. 

The next night, I thought, and thought, and woke her up. I told her I am simply not buying that they've never had sex, given the content of their communication. She admitted about '04 in the UK. She also admitted it would have happened again in '06, had I not discovered the vacation they were planning together, and definitely in '09 were it not for the gyno procedure. But she was adamant that the sex with him was terrible. That it wasn't sex she was pursuing from him, but going out, having fun, getting attention, things I wasn't that good at. 

And that's pretty much the end of bad discoveries. I've read 6000 mails, facebook messages, linkedin messages, encrypted SMS, I've unlocked accounts even she didn't remember she had, talked with T (making it clear that it was at his best interest to cooperate in full), phone records, friends, cross-examined her countless times, and couldn't find anything else, or catch her lying at anything. The worse that has ever happened was her admitting that she sent "porobably less than 5" SMS, and me finding out they were 7. Things like that. 

It seems that admitting about '04 broke every resistance in her, and she has only been telling the truth ever since. 

And our sex life (and relationship in general) is superb. Both lists are gone. We do things together. We wake up at night and hug each other. She keeps telling me I freed her from the ghosts of the past. She has given me full access to all her social media, mail, phone Also, she decided that she will never ever talk again to anyone from that year in the UK. I had to contact her BFF for that (she was one of the party people), and tell her that I knew everything. They both felt great embarrassment and understood that their relationship was also over. 



The only thing I haven't done from the things suggested in this section of the site, was to inform T's girlfriend. I feel it is her right to know. I also feel this person has been undermining my relationship since 2004, and payed no price. Our family is shattered, and he keeps having fun with his GF. He should, for the first time in his life, face some consequences. He certainly was scared to death when I talked to him, although I was extremely polite. 

But all my folks tell me I shouldn't spent energy on him. 

So, about 40 days after what I call "Black Monday", I feel things will be OK. I've changed things. She has changed things. We now have no secrets. 

Only, when tired, I keep freaking out. And feel hurt like I've never felt before in my life. Not even when I saw my grandfather's dead body did I feel like that. Not even close. 

And I want to let go. Trust her again. But won't. Not that early anyway. Not after her display when I first confronted her with the partial truth. 

And I wonder when this will be over. 

It definitely isn't like the first week. When I was freaking out constantly. Now it's more like an hour per day, when tired, when a trigger fires, you know. But it hurts a lot. A lot.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

I think you've handled this very well. It's still very new, so you need to be on alert. A decade long relationship rarely goes "poof" overnight. 

Also, you still don't have the full truth. Even if her vagina was off limits in 09, it's certain that they engaged in other forms of sexual activity. If you are ok "not knowing" that's fine, but you need to be aware that you still don't have complete honesty from your wife. If it's important to you, ask her to take a polygraph test, there mere threat may jar loose a little more honesty.

You should definitely pursue counseling, both as a couple and individually, to help work through this and lay a groundwork for continued success. Keep a close eye on what your wife does--her words mean less than nothing, only her actions will tell you if she is worth the second (third or fourth?) chance you're giving her.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Your first mistake was the day you met her. My God man what the hell is the matter with you? 

This woman has done nothing but make a complete ass out of you. Enjoy your life with her but you better a stock in aspirin companies because you neck is going to be really sore from looking over your shoulder every day wondering where she is, what she's doing and looking under rocks trying to find "T". You have no one to blame but yourself with this mess.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

I think you know 50% of the truth but rest you may never get.

Why you think she dint have any other form of sex with T in 09?

Are you both in IC or MC?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

If this is real, I will say that you are deluding yourself into thinking that you have a real marriage. Your WW has had two husbands for 9 years. She is simply not wife material. The whole thing is dysfunctional & a few confrontations and mea culpas won't change the dynamic that you've been living for the better part of a decade.

Your WW is a mega-liar. A marriage can't function when one partner lies to the degree that she is capable.


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## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> I think you know 50% of the truth but rest you may never get.
> 
> Why you think she dint have any other form of sex with T in 09?
> 
> Are you both in IC or MC?


because the gyno operation was about warts. very few people would knowingly put their genitals in contact with someone who has warts. and he knew it, and used it against me (as evidence that I had cheated). 
ok maybe they hugged a lot. but sexual contact, extremely unlikely. they were not alone most of the time, anyway. there really was a reunion, everybody was staying in the same flat. not very private.
also it was always about the lifestyle with him, and not about sex. 

we don't do counseling yet, but might. she has huge issues from childhood, i believe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Not sure about where you are but your counseling needs to include counseling for post traumatic stress syndrome, ptsd.

This will take a long time heal. You will never get completely over it. She basically had another husband that took care of her emotional needs and turned on you like a rabid dog. Your whole marriage has been a lie.

Definitely out him.

As far as England goes put him on cheaterville.com. Both of those things are what he deserves and will give you some satisfaction.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

Low EQ said:


> because the gyno operation was about warts. very few people would knowingly put their genitals in contact with someone who has warts. and he knew it, and used it against me (as evidence that I had cheated).
> ok maybe they hugged a lot. but sexual contact, extremely unlikely. they were not alone most of the time, anyway. there really was a reunion, everybody was staying in the same flat. not very private.
> also it was always about the lifestyle with him, and not about sex.
> 
> ...


You are in some pretty intense denial.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

Hoping and rugsweeping will not make this go away.

She is/was secretly heavily invested with him emotionally and sexually for 9 years and completely stopping immediately rarely ever happens. Apologizing and crying and having amazing sex with dirty talking (HER wish, HER rules) doesn't make it all better. It's hyper-bonding and it makes you feel good short term, but it doesn't last.

She has been very deceptive all these years because she knew you would not like it, yet she kept doing it. 

Her issues from childhood are hers to deal with in IC, but do not make her any less culpable in cheating, that was a very cognitive decision each and every time. 

She will continue to deny what you cannot prove and will tell you what you want to hear to keep her life as it is.

It is up to you what you can live with, but this is not over yet.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

BK23 said:


> You are in some pretty intense denial.


Indeed



> And asks him to imagine that they are having sex however and wherever he wants it. That she is #*%*# his #%# all the way in. And so on. She concludes "that's the kind of wishes people with our relationship send.


We can only speculate as to the blanks. The OP doesn't need to. But I suspect "people with our relationship" do more than just hug.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Sorry but she needs to take a polygraph test before you believe anything she has told you, because each and every opportunity for years and years she has LIED to you.

She has proven herself much more loyal to T than she has ever been to you.

Definitely get a DNA test on children.

Does T live in the US or UK, post him on cheaterville.com

Btw. NO MAN chases a woman for 10 years like that if he isn't getting sex from her. He would simply have given up and moved on long ago.

So I'm sorry, but I believe you are still very very much are being lied to. 

Why? Because she wants to remain loyal to T. She doesn't want to give you any more reasons to go after him, to expose him.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

So she throws you more sex now to keep you happy.

Go look for an affair phone she likely now has to continue contact with him.

And why after knowing she lied about taking a trip with girls, only to really intend it to be a sexcation with him, would you ever trust or allow her to have more such trips?

I'd be looking back into every trip she's taken alone over the last 16 years and realize just how many have really been to be with T.

Sir, its way past time for a polygraph test for her.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

She leaves for a year and you can't function, so you become an addict to cope? You were co-dependant from the get go. And frankly it's gotten worse. This whole incredibly long post screams toxicology. You need therapy. You and her. I'm gonna leave before i get banned again. Good luck. I hope it all works out, the way you think, you want it to.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

You found out a lot on your own, what others sometimes only start to do after a lot of time on their thread. So that's done very well.

The question is how can your relation be healthy, are you changing to try to get a better emotional relation, is she changing, how do you know she is sincere, or do you want to find out more, or do you want to end this??

Basicly how do you feel about these issues?


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## movin on (Jan 24, 2012)

She will not give up T. You know that,right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I have read this thread from start to finish (and at times it was really hard to (a) keep up with what had happened and when, and (b) the points you were trying to make at various stages. I also am trying to understand where you are from but it sounds like Southern Europe and at a guess, I would say either Italy or Portugal (from the way you refer to the Spaniards and Greeks in the UK). In any case here are some observations:


Your wife seems to be very immature in her behaviour to say the least. This to-ing and fro-ing between her attraction/love for T and you is juvenile at best and immoral at worst.
You seem to think that her PA while just a hook-up/girlfriend of yours when she was in her early to mid twenties was acceptable because she is a "modern" girl from a "modern" world. She was your girlfriend who decided to sow her oats and never stopped till even today - this is what others are trying to tell you is the significance of what she did and is kind of still doing.
It is not clear what you are seeking in this forum - you keep saying that she has amazing sex with you whenever you wish to make a point. That is great and believing that the sex with T was less than good is your perogative but a little naive I think. She had great sex with him too or else she wouldnt do it again and again - she would have dropped him like a hot potato. How is that for a "modern" concept ?
You need to come to an understanding of what boundaries you wish her to have and make sure she (a) understands them and (b) is ready and able to abide by them. If not, children or no children, great sex or no great sex, you need to dump her.

If there is advice on a particular point or consideration that you are seeking then please state it clearly and maybe the very experienced folk on this forum can help. If you just feel like venting then by all means continue to do so and we will still support you not doubt.

I wish you the best of luck going forward.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

How far away does T live? I could not wrap my head around the idea that they haven't been together more. When you read the email, texts again, look for gaps when he may have been in your area. also, look for indications that may refer to visits from him.

Keep reminding yourself that she wasn't only getting dirty sex talk from him. She was mean to you and barely gave you sex. All you were was a paycheck.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Low EQ said:


> What is this? Bible belt?
> 
> You can't possibly claim that what a young girl in a casual relationship does a couple of times when drunk determines her suitability for motherhood ten years later.
> 
> ...




Does not count. :rofl:

Your GF cheated on you while dating you which is sad.

Then you marry her knowing this. :rofl:

Then you come her and state it did not count. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Your WW has been cheating on you the whole time you have known her.

When a WW says they just kissed the had oral.
When a WW admits oral they had sex.
When a WW admits to banging the OM once it was way more then once.

You are so smart and with all your college degrees you are out of your element dealing with affairs.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Low EQ said:


> For another thing, I found out about it a month ago. Ten years after the fact, five years after I chose her as the mother of my child.
> 
> You marry a virgin if you want. I'm sure she will be pretty faithful.


Virginity is no indication of future fidelity.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

As already pointed out no man keeps after a woman for 9 years unless she is putting out.

You can prove WW did not go and see the OM.

You can not prove that the OM did not come and see the WW.

Three must do's.

DNA tests for paternity.

Polygraph test.

STD tests. Wart's are not left by the tooth fairy or any other kind of fairy.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

theroad said:


> Virginity is no indication of future fidelity.


All cheaters were virgins once


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I can't help but think the warts were an std


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

If you are for real my reaction to this will be a one off, will be very different to my usual sympathetic one 

You have been a complete idiot. How on earth you have thought putting up with this for a second will keep her with you? 

It's the 8th wonder of the world 

Why are you here. Everybody will tell you to stop denying the truth and throw her to the wolves 

So what you have great sex with her but frankly she has that with others too ! 

You don't sound like the listening type so all this is probably lost on you 

There is no reconciliation to be had here 

There never was

You need to clean up the mess and start with her being as far away from your life as possible, just deal with her about the kids 

There is nothing else to save

Open your ears and listen


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## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> You found out a lot on your own, what others sometimes only start to do after a lot of time on their thread. So that's done very well.
> 
> The question is how can your relation be healthy, are you changing to try to get a better emotional relation, is she changing, how do you know she is sincere, or do you want to find out more, or do you want to end this??
> 
> Basicly how do you feel about these issues?


Like I said, I wasn't perfect either. 

Our main point of disagreement was going out, dancing etc. I didn't like it. She thought it was one of the most important things in life. For three years, I had a major drug problem, combined with enormous obligations in work and studies, which really did leave very little time for her, and almost no time for going out as a couple. This has traumatized her, and she has repeatedly complained to me about it, both at the time it was happening and afterwards. I was also feeling what I was doing was terrible, but emerging from it was a long process. 

During the same period we developed half-independent lifestyles. Basically I got home at 20.00, had dinner, had sex, she slept at 22.00 and I would go to my friends (living in the same building) to smoke pot until maybe one o'clock. Next morning she woke up at 6.30 to go to job, I woke up at 9.00. In the weekends I would stay to my friends until three or even four o'clock, and wake up almost in the afternoon. I was bored of doing anything. She spent thousands of hours alone. We lived in the same house, but on totally different schedules. This situation got worse when our first was born, because we decided to take shifts taking care of the baby. E.g. on a given week I would have the 00:00-04:00 shift and she would have the 04:00-08:00. 

Like I said, she has expressed her complaints, both about lack of fun and lack of communication, countless times, only I chose to ignore. React selfishly. 

It is not true that she was talking every day with T. She did talk sporadically (he continued studying abroad all these years), but it gradually became an everyday thing on the third year we were leaving together, because as I said, that year I finished my thesis and really had almost zero time for her. That's when he grasped the opportunity and proposed the reunion in the UK. 

Despite what the cavemen say in this thread, their relationship was _not_ primary physical. Basically, he was very dysfunctional, whereas I am a sex machine. He was her BMF and an escape, reminding her of times when she was having great fun. He liked her and had never hidden it, but she mostly used that as an ego-booster. These are not things she's said. These are things I've seen in her emails, and chatlogs, and skype logs, with T and other friends. She rejected him countless times. In 09 she thought very seriously of dumping me, but didn't. 

Anyway. Since the confrontation, our relationship has vastly improved. We decided there had been a lot of resentment. And a lot of desires which the other part had either not found out about, or not taken seriously enough. The way she set it (and I agreed): "We either divorce, or become one". We sleep at the same times. We wake up together to take care of the baby. We chat, and sext, and talk on the phone countless times per day. Anything that troubles, me, ANYTHING, I tell her. And so does she. We have full access to each others means of communication. It is very liberating. Sex is unbelievable. Frankly, there's nothing in the sexting emails with T that doesn't look dull and childish compared to any of our nights. 

[and to whoever said they were definitely referring to real experiences, I'm pretty damn sure I would have noticed earlier if the man had a yacht and they had been cruising the Pacific alone having sex on deck eight times per day for two years. It says "be supportive" in the guideline. Not "be a smart-ass bible-belt caveman who has never had a long-term relationship but feels like an expert on the matter, judging other people by the 5% he chose to understand of a few hundred words he read on a forum"]

We go out a lot. We do things together. We try to make up for the lost time. 

Bottom line, yes. We are now emotionally connected. And it really feels good. Much like it felt wrong before. In a way you cannot exactly pinpoint, but just know in your guts. 

So I'm optimistic that we'll make it. 

I opened this thread mainly for three reasons. 

One, was I really wanted to get this of my chest. It feels better.
Two, I wanted to know (from other people in similar situation) how long should I expect the trauma to persist. Because currently, whenever I'm tired, I feel terrible. Although I feel GREAT when with her (better than ever, in fact).
Three, I wanted to know whether I'm doing the right thing that I haven't informed T's girlfriend about his achievements. I personally believe I would feel much better if I destroyed his relationship (it took him eight years to find a girl that would stay with him more than a couple of nights, what with the dysfunction and everything) and make him at last pay a price for messing with mine. And I think she has the right to know and chose to forgive or not, like I did. After all they've only been together for one year, not 15. It's not very natural for him to screw around that early in a relationship. OTOH, this would probably count as revenge. And I've read that the urge to revenge is the part of PTSD I should fight most strongly against. 

Objectively, you think it would help me to destroy his relationship? I mean, would it help _my_ relationship?


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Low EQ said:


> Like I said, I wasn't perfect either........
> 
> Despite what the cavemen say in this thread, their relationship was _not_ primary physical. ....
> It says "be supportive" in the guideline.
> ...


Sheesh....

and you came here for what exactly? (To tell us all what a "sex machine" you are!! ...christ) 

As I said you didn't seem to be the 'listening' type



...I'm out of this one


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Low EQ said:


> Despite what the cavemen say in this thread, their relationship was _not_ primary physical. Basically, he was very dysfunctional, whereas I am a sex machine.
> 
> ...
> 
> Two, I wanted to know (from other people in similar situation) how long should I expect the trauma to persist. Because currently, whenever I'm tired, I feel terrible. Although I feel GREAT when with her (better than ever, in fact).


The second paragraph I quoted and (your whole thread, in fact) screams of dysfunction, codependency and a scarcity mentality. Sorry, but a "sex machine" wouldn't have tolerated this much abuse.

Also... you say that you weren't married so it doesn't count. Believe whatever you must to get you through the night, man. But it does count unfortunately. It is the basis and constant recurring theme in your marriage.

Edit: 24 isn't a young age for maturity. I wonder what will hapen in the next 10-15 years when her testerone peaks and her remorse bottoms.


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## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> How far away does T live? I could not wrap my head around the idea that they haven't been together more. When you read the email, texts again, look for gaps when he may have been in your area. also, look for indications that may refer to visits from him.
> 
> Keep reminding yourself that she wasn't only getting dirty sex talk from him. She was mean to you and barely gave you sex. All you were was a paycheck.


i wasn't a paycheck. she is self-supporting. she didn't 'barely' give me sex. only less and lower quality sex than i wanted (still, a lot by most people's standards).

regarding the distance, most of the time he was living in another country. his hometown is very far. he came to ours a weekend before the trip. she took him to shop knitting items. he was pretending to care about her knitting hobby on their chats. i actually felt a bit sorry for him at this point.


also, he was in our hometown for six months at some point. but they hadn't talked at all. there's an email from her, saying 'i cannot believe you were in the same town for six months and are only telling me we could have met now, while you are out of country'.

after we married, i am absolutely certain they have never met.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

Headspin said:


> Sheesh....
> 
> and you came here for what exactly?
> 
> ...


for the part you conveniently replaced with dots.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

and if by "listening type" you mean "the type that would D the moment after an anonymous person told him too", no, I am NOT that type.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Maybe you should thank T. While you were mentally absent, smoking pot, studying, ignoring your wife and what she wanted, T was taking care of her. Had she not have had another outlet, what did you have to offer to keep a woman?


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Low EQ said:


> and if by "listening type" you mean "the type that would D the moment after an anonymous person told him too", no, I am NOT that type.


I think he means "the type of person that when given the advice of divorce after PA and 9 years of EA, calls the people "bible belt caveman".


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Wow. It's a bit hostile in here.



> But, she faded him out. They would now exchange mails every month or so. And they would have stopped talking completely, except at some point he found out one of her major complaints about me: that I wasn't giving her dirty talk in bed.


He found out because SHE told him.



> He exploited this information: started talking dirty to her, and got an immediate response. And their relationship reached its final status, which was sexting, with mails and SMS, about twice per month. *She was deeply embarrassed by it, but couldn't stop it.*
> <snip>
> *She didn't want this to happen, but couldn't resist the temptation.*


OP, your last update on your situation sounds very positive. But you need to get to the bottom of the highlighted text. Affairs ARE addictive, we see that all over this forum. Your wife should find out why she kept doing something that made her 'embarrassed' and put your marriage and family in real jeopardy. Your marriage seems stronger but you'd be complacent if you both didn't take steps to protect it further.

From what you've posted she had some events in her childhood that could have contributed to her behaviour. Encourage her to get help; for all your sakes.



> At one particular mail, she is wishing him happy birthday. And asks him to imagine that they are having sex however and wherever he wants it. That she is #*%*# his #%# all the way in. And so on. She concludes "that's the kind of wishes people with our relationship send. Not 'happy birthday' and all that crap".


She instigated these sexts too, remember that. And she could have blocked him, changed her email, etc but didn't.

In answer to a question you posed earlier: I wouldn't mess with OM's relationship. The last thing I'd want is for him to turn his attention back to your wife.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> I can't help but think the warts were an std


Google "genital warts" and you will find that they are a result of an STD.

OP - you ask how can you trust her again? The answer is that you cannot. With a 9 year EA sprinkled with admissions of sex and opportunities where sex was intended, she has invested more time in him than she has in you. Even when you were living together and married with children she was more invested in him. At the first inkling of an argument or a mythical "feeling" on her part, she will rekindle the affair with him under the guise of "getting his opinion or advice'.

A relationship that long does not go away as quickly as you claim it has. For over 9 years she simply could not help herself, even when she was married and pregnant.

DNA of both children might not be a bad idea. All you need is a cheek swab from each child and one from you to determine if you are the father.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

This "caveman" is otta here.

Advice - if you want help don't insult the people who volunteer to read your stuff and to reply.

But since I'm a caveman you won't give my advice any credence.

Btw I've never thumped a bible in my life.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

Your wife straight up played you. She is still not being entirely honest with you. A toxic combination of naivete, your wife's lies, and your own arrogance is what is keeping you in the dark.

There's a chance things will stay good as they are now, and your wife will remain faithful without a hiccup or relapse.

There's also a realistic chance she will continue cheating on you.

I think you need a more thorough understanding of her betrayal before you can put a lot of faith in either outcome. Part of reaching that understanding is taking the blinders off. I know this is painful, and I know folks here can be a bit overly enthusiastic/pessimistic, but lashing out at strangers won't change anything. 

This is still pretty fresh, but you need to take a long hard look at some painful realities here. 

One that leaps out to me is your insistence that the relationship wasn't sexual or primarily sexual in nature, and that they didn't do anything on her vacation there in 2009. A majority of the adult, sexually active population has HPV, that's not going to stop him, for all you know he gave it to her. And you don't think she pleasured him in other ways, because SHE TOLD you there was a full house? You can't trust her, dude. She is lying to you. You are lying to yourself. You also mentioned that he has sexual dysfunction and you are a "sex machine?" What's your source on that... Oh yeah... the woman that has cuckolded you and made a fool of you for a decade. Time to wake up, friend. Reconcile or divorce, but do so with more complete knowledge.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Low EQ said:


> . . . *So I'm optimistic that we'll make it. *
> 
> I opened this thread mainly for three reasons.
> 
> ...


Dear Low EQ,

I'm optimistic that you will make it, too, _if_ you do what you need to do from here on out. Let me respond to your "reasons" for posting and then add a few thoughts.

It is therapeutic to discuss your problems with others, and especially with strangers because the anonymity allows you to be very honest. I hope that you do not regret having come to TAM/CWI as a result of some of the responses. At the same time, I would urge you to read very carefully the responses that bother you since, often, we learn the most from people whose views are the most different from our own.

As to how long you can expect the trauma to persist, the answer is, a long time. Given the nature and duration of her betrayal, it will likely be years before you are healed and you may never heal completely. Please read the following thread (http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...eelings-changed-after-things-settle-down.html) to get a clearer picture of the long-term effects of infidelity. That said, if your WW (wayward wife) is genuinely remorseful and willing to work with you to improve your marriage, and given that you sound like an intelligent and emotionally stable person, you will likely find a way to deal with the "mind movies" and other forms of trauma. Getting counseling for PTSD, as someone suggested, may be helpful, and some betrayed spouses (BSs) have found it helpful to take prescribed antidepressant medication for a short while after learning of their WSs' (wayward spouses') infidelity.

You are _not_ doing the right thing by withholding what T did with your WW from his GF (girlfriend). You are absolutely correct that she has a right to know what he has done so that she can make an informed decision whether to stay with him. In addition, you would be wise to let his GF know in order to diminish his interest in messing with your WW in the future. If they do R (reconcile), that will mean one more pair of eyes watching what he does and, if it breaks up their relationship, it will be a lesson for him not to mess with another man's W (especially yours). If you want to do it for revenge, that's up to you (some think this is an acceptable reason, some don't; it depends on your moral code).

Now let me add a few additional thoughts. Although most if not all of my comments have already been covered on your thread, perhaps I can say them in a way that is easier for you to understand and accept.

First, please do not assume that your WW is telling you the truth. She has demonstrated a great capacity for deception. This a character flaw that is not fixed easily or quickly. Consider that, in the future, you would be wise to verify anything she says that is of importance, and you would also be advised to be careful not to trust her to do right by you. This may change over time -- she may develop into a totally trustworthy person but, at the moment, she is not, despite her apparent remorse. Ttrust only her actions, not her words, and monitor her closely (you would be surprised how often WWs who profess remorse go back to their cheating ways).

Second, understand that, while she is entirely to blame for her infidelity, you have to accept a measure of responsibility for the disfunction in your marriage. As far as I can tell, you have been less of a man than you needed to be. For example, you put up with a lot of things that a man who really respected himself and who had strong principles would not have put up with. You also failed to satisfy some of her basic needs. You would benefit from reading "No More Mister Nice Guy" by Robert Glover, which describes self-defeating relationship behavior and how to overcome it. I also suggest you read "Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011" by Athol Kay. It's not a sex manual; rather, it provides practical advice on the kinds of behavior that enable a man to attract and hold on to a desirable woman.

Third, understand that R is a long-term process that requires enormous work and sacrifice by both partners, but mostly from the WS. Having a happy marriage is hard enough, going from a failed marriage to a happy one is much harder. Make it clear to your WW that, if she does not do the things you expect from her, you are fully prepared to end your marriage. Do not let her think that, now that you have given her a second chance, she is home free and can return to treating you as she did before. At the same time, if she does to what you want her to, reward her for it so that she is encouraged to keep working on improving herself. Among other things, I would suggest you insist that she get counseling to find out why she felt entitled to betray and lie to you. She needs to know what led her to do this so that she can avoid doing it in the future.

I hope that this is helpful to you.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Low EQ:
I think I agree with you that whatever physical sex she had with T is not the main thing you have to worry about. I think your main problem is that, from your description, your girlfriend/now wife sounds like she would score high on a "sociopath" scale. Incredibly manipulative, selfish, self-entitled, lies easily and often etc...
I think her world is full of 'objects' - such as her car, her wardrobe, her tennis racket, her home, you, T, her 2 children. each and any of these she feels free to use for her benefit, and later discard when/if thay have served their purpose - to then be replaced by whatever new objects she wants to bring into her life: new car, new blouse, new husband etc.

if any of this rings true then your goal should be to take care of your children but to also get the hell away from her.......


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Low EQ said:


> because the gyno operation was about warts. very few people would knowingly put their genitals in contact with someone who has warts. and he knew it, and used it against me (as evidence that I had cheated).
> ok maybe they hugged a lot. but sexual contact, extremely unlikely. they were not alone most of the time, anyway. there really was a reunion, everybody was staying in the same flat. not very private.
> also it was always about the lifestyle with him, and not about sex.


 You know for a fact that she lied to you and spent a week secretly vacationing with this other man (OM) in 2009. You believing her that they had no sex because of warts is where you are in total denial, as a condom would have kept him completely safe. He wanted to get in her pants again and he finally had his chance. Whats more nothing would stop them from getting naked, and for him to finger bang her, and for her to giving him oral sex; and yes "oral sex" is call oral sex, because it is sex. As for everyone staying in the same flat, they are a partying bunch, and in that group everyone considered your wife his girl. This group has no loyalty to you. Their loyalty is only to the OM and to her. You are nothing more than that jerky guy that stopped her from partying with them. Do you really think that they did not go off to bed and cuddle up and sleep together in their room every night?

You saying that it was only an EA and was not physical is ridiculous. Sticking his condom protected d**k deep inside her is very physical. Him finger banging her is very physical. Her giving him oral sex is very physical. Them sleeping in the same bed as he groped and cuddled with her is very physical. Believing that she did not do all of these things with her sexting partner because she had warts and because she told you that he was bad in bed, is very delusional.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Low EQ,

I like the fact that your elaborate post shows you came to understanding the situation. It's more than most of us may hope to see and act upon in our own lives in general. 

Whatever you choose to take for advise here, I think you make mature decisions now. 

I think in your special case there should be understanding for her to have a second lover on the side for emotional reasons. Physical actions seem to be less important here (for her).

I hope this works out for you.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I am on Page 2. 

One thing much worse than infidelity in your case is her deceit and manipulation. It happened 3 times. She tried the offensive strategy(fake indignation "how dare you accuse me of infidelity") and you got wise to it by the 2nd time(Maybe because you were living with her ?). The 3rd time, she changed tactics. You haven't realized it yet. You soon will. 


This isn't about dirty talk like you believe it is. You probably don't believe it either. You were smart enough gathering evidence. It was dirty talk with him and then abusing you out of her own guilt.

The same thing that happened in 2006 is happening now. Even how you are reacting to it.

She is not a good person. I wouldn't want an employee like her. I wouldn't want to be a business partner with someone like her. You should be very careful trusting the rest of her life with someone like her. She will only get better at it if this is how you react every time to her false remorse. (Thanks to your very detailed story) Remember what she told you about making up for her mistake in 2006? She just escalated it into something much worse. Now she is making the same empty promises again after confessing the minimum. Next time she decides to cheat, she sure will keep it off any social accounts and do it the old fashioned way.

Also, how did she get the warts(If it wasn't you. Could warts be transmitted through non-sexual contact ?) Could it be that she was sleeping with someone other than T or you ? Considering her manipulation (and how at ease she was at trying to turn it on you), I wouldn't put it beyond her..


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Low EQ said:


> For another thing, I found out about it a month ago. Ten years after the fact, five years after I chose her as the mother of my child.
> 
> You marry a virgin if you want. I'm sure she will be pretty faithful.


Excuse it anyway you want, but you wouldn't be posting if it was about your sarcasm. I hope you can live with the decision you make. You have made up your mind, just be prepared for it to happen again. You only have the tip of the iceberg IMO.

Good luck.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Warts = HPV

LowEQ, 

I am glad that you have the character to stand up those who question your relationship with your significant other. I say other instead of wife because you have a very intimate tie. Along with her betrayal, many layers of deceit, there are many layers of affirmation. She picked the cherries from T while you were the man in her life. In biological terms she sought his seed but wanted you as a mate. The night you could not sleep for fear that your second child might not be yours is proof that on biological level, you could not accept being the cuckold who raised another man's child. That would have been a deal breaker and yet your wife would have done this easily, had the circumstances permitted. 

Is it fair to say that neither of you are the person after all of this?

If your wife is a better person, she has become one at great expense to you. You have really suffered. Is it fair to say that if she harmlessly flirted with another man, you might divorce at once, even though no EA or PA occurred? For her the limits or bounderies are very narrow?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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