# Do husbands unintentionally stifle their wives sexuality?



## LoriD1974 (2 mo ago)

Reading through many of the post on the "Coping with Infidelity" section, a common theme is that the BH are devastated that their wives during the affairs will do, act or engage in sexual scenarios they won't engage in within their marriage. I can (ashamedly) agree that during my affair I was often much more willing with my AP to engage in spontaneous, explicit sexual encounters than with my husband. I don't feel I did anything that in the right setting/atmosphere I would not do with my Husband, just that he never asked for, seemed to desire or assume I'd want to do those things with him. My AP most definitely allowed me to revel in my sexuality. So I'm wondering if anyone feels that husbands may stifle their wives sexuality within their marriage by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

This is an interesting topic but the way you are phrasing it is false in that you are laying the responsibility at the feet of the husbands.

I do believe some husbands absolutely can, and do, stifle their wives sexuality.

I in no way believe this can be laid on most husbands however.

A grown ass woman needs to own her sexuality and that includes working with her husband in the bedroom.

An AP is simply a piece of shyt that doesn't care and emotionally damaged or retarded women can't comprehend the difference between a caring husband and a lowlife. What I mean is that an AP can seem to be confident and assertive when he actually just doesn't care and has no real skin in the game and nothing to lose.

A man who knowingly poaches another man's woman for sex is a second hand homosexual who is too cowardly to cut out the middle woman and directly rub another man's rhubarb.

An AP automatically is treating you like shyt and is not the confident "alpha" you might perceive him to be.

Damaged and retarded women do not know how to work with solid men sexually and often mistake scum for alphas.

You need to work on yourself and understand that what you did with your AP was all stolen regardless of how basic or adventurous.

I do think men can help their wives more sexually but not necessarily in the context you are placing it.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

I can for sure say I do not do this. My wife knows what I want sexually and still turns me down. I communicate with her and tell her what I’d like and she still refuses.


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## LoriD1974 (2 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> I do believe some husbands absolutely can, and do, stifle their wives sexuality.


Thank-you for your reply. My question was a stand alone one, my affair reference was just how i came to see how my sexuality had been stifled within my marriage partly due to my husbands unwillingness to express his own desires and the desires he had for me. I am definitely not blaming him for my transgressions, just noting what the affair made me discover about myself and the sexuality I was capable of. As I referred to in my post, many BH are commenting on the fact that their wives participated in sexual situations they won't partake in with their husbands, I'm using this as an example to question if it's because the wives didn't feel encouraged, comfortable or desired enough in that way "unintentionally" by their husbands?



ConanHub said:


> An AP automatically is treating you like shyt and is not the confident "alpha" you might perceive him to be.


The affair (over 10 years ago now) was at a very low point in my life and believe me I have worked hard on myself since then, no matter how much I may regret it the facts are the facts. Pretty sure we both treated each other like shyt however as we were both in it for the sex only he actually was the confident "alpha" in regards to that. Maybe not in his daily life but that wasn't my concern at that time.

Thank you again for your reply.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LoriD1974 said:


> Thank-you for your reply. My question was a stand alone one, my affair reference was just how i came to see how my sexuality had been stifled within my marriage partly due to my husbands unwillingness to express his own desires and the desires he had for me. I am definitely not blaming him for my transgressions, just noting what the affair made me discover about myself and the sexuality I was capable of. As I referred to in my post, many BH are commenting on the fact that their wives participated in sexual situations they won't partake in with their husbands, I'm using this as an example to question if it's because the wives didn't feel encouraged, comfortable or desired enough in that way "unintentionally" by their husbands?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would mark your comment as helpful, because it mostly was, but for the second to the last sentence. No he wasn't an alpha. You were an emotionally damaged REDACTED woman that perceived him as something he wasn't. Any man that thirsts to stick his junk in another man's tunnel is a pathetic, second hand homosexual that lacks the courage to directly stroke another man's wang.

You are still damaged or retarded to believe otherwise.

Other than your delusions about your AP, I do think you have valid points.


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## DamianDamian (Aug 14, 2019)

Women (and men to a lesser degree) are always more turned on by new. That good man that treated you right for years? Nah. Brand new alcoholic ahole with herpes? Yes please. It's all about hormones. Your husband suffered too - sexual frustration to some degree is part and parcel of a long term relationship.
Only difference is that some women are intelligent enough to recognize this and prioritize other things over sex and work with their husband's for better sex.
Giving in to your baser instincts when you made a sacred promise not to is opening the door to hell - I'm not religious, it's just a metaphor for your sh1t new life - get some kitty litter.
Anyone that uses the term 'alpha' is not someone I'd waste my time socializing with. It makes me think of sub 90 iq drugged up white trash trying to talk over each other.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

LoriD1974 said:


> Reading through many of the post on the "Coping with Infidelity" section, a common theme is that the BH are devastated that their wives during the affairs will do, act or engage in sexual scenarios they won't engage in within their marriage. I can (ashamedly) agree that during my affair I was often much more willing with my AP to engage in spontaneous, explicit sexual encounters than with my husband. I don't feel I did anything that in the right setting/atmosphere I would not do with my Husband, just that he never asked for, seemed to desire or assume I'd want to do those things with him. My AP most definitely allowed me to revel in my sexuality. So I'm wondering if anyone feels that husbands may stifle their wives sexuality within their marriage by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings.


I'd say that it isn't that the husbands are stifling the wife's sexuality. What happens, I think, is that a woman with much prior sexual experience when single, will typically marry a man with not as much sexual experience. The woman doesn't want to admit how sexual she was with men prior to her husband, because that would bring up the issues of retroactive jealousy with the husband. So, the woman follows the man's lead in hopes that he will learn.

The husband, not being very sexual before marriage, does not have knowledge of how to be sexual because he wasn't in the top 20% of men who could bring women home every night and really explore his sexual self. So, he only knows the basics, if that. The woman, values protecting her reputation before the husband over her sexual enjoyment and so she allows herself to be sexually stifled within the marriage. This leads, over time, to sexual dissatisfaction and can be a factor as to why the woman may eventually seek a sexual partner outside the marriage.

This dynamic may also be behind the well known adage "beta bucks and alpha fcks"


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

LoriD1974 said:


> Reading through many of the post on the "Coping with Infidelity" section, a common theme is that the BH are devastated that their wives during the affairs will do, act or engage in sexual scenarios they won't engage in within their marriage. I can (ashamedly) agree that during my affair I was often much more willing with my AP to engage in spontaneous, explicit sexual encounters than with my husband. I don't feel I did anything that in the right setting/atmosphere I would not do with my Husband, just that he never asked for, seemed to desire or assume I'd want to do those things with him. My AP most definitely allowed me to revel in my sexuality. So I'm wondering if anyone feels that husbands may stifle their wives sexuality within their marriage by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings.


The hunt ist more thrilling than the Catch.
So, you much easier push your own boundaries.
Your husband on the other Hand - you already had him.
It needs two to Tango, you know.
Your husband stiffeled your sexuality? What did you do to ammend this? What die you do to get your husband to receive the same sex-attention you have oh so willingly to you AP.
Your AP allowed you to Revell in your sexuality? And your husband forced you to bei celibate? Or couldn't you just not be bothered to try?
You exchanged the one man who would give you the world for an asshole with a big ****.
You were in for the kick, and that is ok. You didn't think a minute about what you did to your husband. Not fair by a Long Shot.
And even now you try to shift the blame to him for stifiling your sexuality.
And you seek late validation from other cheaters. 
Because deep down you know you alone are to blame.
Even If you reconsiled, which I don't know you did this. No reason needed. 
I will never understand I never once through all my career I once heard an explanation that really Made sense


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## LoriD1974 (2 mo ago)

UAArchangel said:


> I'd say that it isn't that the husbands are stifling the wife's sexuality. What happens, I think, is that a woman with much prior sexual experience when single, will typically marry a man with not as much sexual experience. The woman doesn't want to admit how sexual she was with men prior to her husband, because that would bring up the issues of retroactive jealousy with the husband. So, the woman follows the man's lead in hopes that he will learn.
> 
> The husband, not being very sexual before marriage, does not have knowledge of how to be sexual because he wasn't in the top 20% of men who could bring women home every night and really explore his sexual self. So, he only knows the basics, if that. The woman, values protecting her reputation before the husband over her sexual enjoyment and so she allows herself to be sexually stifled within the marriage. This leads, over time, to sexual dissatisfaction and can be a factor as to why the woman may eventually seek a sexual partner outside the marriage.
> 
> This dynamic may also be behind the well known adage "beta bucks and alpha fcks"


Thank you for this reply. I was 26 and my husband 21 when we married so this is actually a complete possibility for us. I don't feel I hid my sexual past from him but I was probably not forthcoming with it either, it was 21 years ago so hard to remember. Thank you.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

LoriD1974 said:


> Thank you for this reply. I was 26 and my husband 21 when we married so this is actually a complete possibility for us. I don't feel I hid my sexual past from him but I was probably not forthcoming with it either, it was 21 years ago so hard to remember. Thank you.


Unless a man was a man-s.lut, when he was single, he's going to feel like he missed out on experiences. This is especially true if there are some things that you are unwilling to do with him what you were willing to do with previous partners and especially, especially true if you were willing to do those things with AP's.


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## LoriD1974 (2 mo ago)

sleeping_sandman said:


> Your AP allowed you to Revell in your sexuality? And your husband forced you to bei celibate?


At the time, yes I did revel in it, hence why mine and many others affairs continue. It may be abhorrent, but true. No my husband has never been forced to be celibate but thank you for your concern. 



sleeping_sandman said:


> You exchanged the one man who would give you the world for an asshole with a big ****.


This comment was accurate.



sleeping_sandman said:


> And you seek late validation from other cheaters.


I need no validation from anybody. My question is about if husbands might stifle their wives sexuality, having had an affair is irrelevant for the question. 



sleeping_sandman said:


> Because deep down you know you alone are to blame.


I do not deny this.


Thank you for your reply.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

sleeping_sandman said:


> The hunt ist more thrilling than the Catch.
> So, you much easier push your own boundaries.
> Your husband on the other Hand - you already had him.
> It needs two to Tango, you know.
> ...


I have to apologise for the above Lori.
Though some of it is valid for me I shouldn't lash out Like this.
I am deeply hurt at the Moment. For a friend of Mine. 
My Brother in Arms and I will be the one to destroy his marriage.
Your Post drove me over the edge.
So maybe I have to thank you instead of getting Mad and insult you.
For what it's worth l am sorry.
Maybe tonight, after work I will Post my Story and seak advice. Because at the moment everytime I See him and His wife I got redhot rage in me. I want to murder the skank for what she does to my friend and how she dragged my wife and me into this.
Sorry.


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## LoriD1974 (2 mo ago)

sleeping_sandman said:


> I have to apologise for the above Lori.
> Though some of it is valid for me I shouldn't lash out Like this.
> I am deeply hurt at the Moment. For a friend of Mine.
> My Brother in Arms and I will be the one to destroy his marriage.
> ...


No need to apologize, I am well aware that cheating on my husband was unforgivable. Everyone has the right to express their heartfelt feelings. Sorry for what you are going through with your friend.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

LoriD1974 said:


> Reading I don’t feel I did anything that in the right setting/atmosphere I would not do with my Husband, just that he never asked for, seemed to desire or assume I'd want to do those things with him.



Givin the response to cheaters around here thanks for owning up to your chit and being willing to speak about it. Cheaters usually get hit so hard that they leave the forum very quickly. 

In regards to the “right setting/atmosphere” comment I don’t believe it is a level comparison between the two men. One relationship is based in family domestication while the other is based mostly in sexuality. For your above comment to be true your brain would have to react in the same fashion to both men which is nearly impossible because the framework within your mind registers the two men as very different things.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

LoriD1974 said:


> (...).
> 
> 
> 
> I need no validation from anybody. My question is about if husbands might stifle their wives sexuality, having had an affair is irrelevant for the question.


Sorry for derailing Up Front.
But there I beg to differ.
That is Just the basic excuse.
Not, that you need validation or not but telling yourself that you have been stifled and the ONLY was to solve this issue is some random Dude.
Most Cheats don't give a flying **** when doing it about the feelings of the one person they vowed to care for. It wreakes havoc on their soul, and the cheater knows this. As long as you are no soziopath I am really curious what your reasoning for you was to intentionally attemt murder in your husbands Soul. Did you think about him at all for at least a second?
I am a paramedic and emergency suicide preventer. I am the one sitting in rooftops, highways in hallways of highrise buildings. And perceived 50% of people are out there to end their pain exactly over this. So my question comes Not only from snooping but also a bit in collecting reasoning. When sitting there in Front of someone ready to die I need any reason/talkingpoint Ton get them to Stop. Maybe your reasoning migh give me a nee Idea. If you like to answer such Personal stuff to a Rando.
I never got a proper reply from any cheater in this.
Other than that I will leave you in peace now. See you around in the Forum


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

sleeping_sandman said:


> Maybe your reasoning migh give me a nee Idea.
> I never got a proper reply from any cheater in this.


The problem here is that affairs do not operate in the realms of solid logic and reason. A proper reply isn’t available because one doesn’t exist.


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## LoriD1974 (2 mo ago)

sleeping_sandman said:


> Not, that you need validation or not but telling yourself that you have been stifled and the ONLY was to solve this issue is some random Dude.


I don't believe there is a "reason" I had an affair. There were a series of events and emotions that I feel led me on that path. The wrong path. That list included grief (my mother died 2 months previously), loneliness, boredom, feeling undesired by my husband, frustration with my career. I feel like the affair was a distraction from these things that together were overwhelming for me. I knew what I was doing was appalling and went against everything I'd believed morally. It really just snowballed and the day's weeks' months just passed by so quickly it really was like an out of body experience, like I was just a spectator watching from the sidelines. My question in regards to "husbands unintentionally stifling their wives sexuality" isn't something I had thought about previous to my affair, that is something that more so occurred to me afterwards. I didn't go looking for someone that would engage me more sexually than my husband, that was just the result. A result I'm not proud of.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

LoriD1974 said:


> I don't believe there is a "reason" I had an affair. There were a series of events and emotions that I feel led me on that path. The wrong path. That list included grief (my mother died 2 months previously), loneliness, boredom, feeling undesired by my husband, frustration with my career. I feel like the affair was a distraction from these things that together were overwhelming for me. I knew what I was doing was appalling and went against everything I'd believed morally. It really just snowballed and the day's weeks' months just passed by so quickly it really was like an out of body experience, like I was just a spectator watching from the sidelines. My question in regards to "husbands unintentionally stifling their wives sexuality" isn't something I had thought about previous to my affair, that is something that more so occurred to me afterwards. I didn't go looking for someone that would engage me more sexually than my husband, that was just the result. A result I'm not proud of.


Thank you for this insight. It still baffles me though. This disconnect. You Said it yourself it was against all you were. I think I will never truly understand. I hope your husband ist fine whereever h is today and was able to salvage what was left of him. You seem to have come to Terms with what you did, which is good. At least It didn't add yourself to the bodycount.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

LoriD1974 said:


> I don't believe there is a "reason" I had an affair. There were a series of events and emotions that I feel led me on that path. The wrong path. That list included grief (my mother died 2 months previously), loneliness, boredom, feeling undesired by my husband, frustration with my career. I feel like the affair was a distraction from these things that together were overwhelming for me. I knew what I was doing was appalling and went against everything I'd believed morally. It really just snowballed and the day's weeks' months just passed by so quickly it really was like an out of body experience, like I was just a spectator watching from the sidelines. My question in regards to "husbands unintentionally stifling their wives sexuality" isn't something I had thought about previous to my affair, that is something that more so occurred to me afterwards. I didn't go looking for someone that would engage me more sexually than my husband, that was just the result. A result I'm not proud of.


Those were in fact your self-rationalized reasons you believed made you justified to betray your H and sleep around.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> The problem here is that affairs do not operate in the realms of solid logic and reason. A proper reply isn’t available because one doesn’t exist.


I know. But I don't understand each why people who was so themselves go against all they believe in and their own moral compass. Being so callous while simultanously Go against their own self. How many Red Flags, how many betrayal can you tolerate from yourself before your reflection in the mirror starts to stare back at you. 
I always imagine how those people stand there getting all dressed up while the betrayed is in the Same room and being Lied to in every possible way. Most of the time the cheater doesn't even Respekt the Most Safe space there should be in ones live. The marriage bed.
I just don't get it. Maybe that is why my boss always sends me Up the roof or into the room while my colleagues try to counsel in the spouse. It is more offen than not, by the way that the spouse is nearby and equally devasted. That is why I don't understand.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

sleeping_sandman said:


> I know. But I don't understand each why people who was so themselves go against all they believe in and their own moral compass. Being so callous while simultanously Go against their own self. How many Red Flags, how many betrayal can you tolerate from yourself before your reflection in the mirror starts to stare back at you.
> I always imagine how those people stand there getting all dressed up while the betrayed is in the Same room and being Lied to in every possible way. Most of the time the cheater doesn't even Respekt the Most Safe space there should be in ones live. The marriage bed.
> I just don't get it. Maybe that is why my boss always sends me Up the roof or into the room while my colleagues try to counsel in the spouse. It is more offen than not, by the way that the spouse is nearby and equally devasted. That is why I don't understand.


I forgot: she Said months. Nowhere in all that time she showed a single shred of compassion for the man she vowed to Love.
That is what I don't get


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

sleeping_sandman said:


> I forgot: she Said months. Nowhere in all that time she showed a single shred of compassion for the man she vowed to Love.
> That is what I don't get


You are still trying to apply reason and logic.

To say that during that time she didn’t have a single shred of compassion makes the assumption that you think you know exactly what she was thinking….. we do not. Cheaters are terrible and I’m not defending them but it is possible they also have internal turmoil about the cheating.

Objectivity is difficult to manage in these cheater stories I admit. I’ve never been cheated on that I’m aware of so I’m not triggered easily with this stuff. My best friends both have been divorced now. Even though it was the woman who stepped out both times it is also easy for me to see the large part both these guys had in that happening.


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

LoriD1974 said:


> Thank you for this reply. I was 26 and my husband 21 when we married so this is actually a complete possibility for us. I don't feel I hid my sexual past from him but I was probably not forthcoming with it either, it was 21 years ago so hard to remember. Thank you.


Always the feelings. You didn't actively hide your past but neither did you reveal it so the end result is that it remained _*hidden*_ from your husband.

Hard to remember. In a strange coincidence many people, especially those caught recently in an affair, also forget the details. Time doesn't seem to matter - 2 days ago or 20 years ago.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> You are still trying to apply reason and logic.
> 
> To say that during that time she didn’t have a single shred of compassion makes the assumption that you think you know exactly what she was thinking….. we do not. Cheaters are terrible and I’m not defending them but it is possible they also have internal turmoil about the cheating.
> 
> Objectivity is difficult to manage in these cheater stories I admit. I’ve never been cheated on that I’m aware of so I’m not triggered easily with this stuff. My best friends both have been divorced now. Even though it was the woman who stepped out both times it is also easy for me to see the large part both these guys had in that happening.


I know, I know. And that is why a ONS is one thing for me I can get my head around. But Months? For that you need to shut down any feeling for the one person that trusts you the most. Especially if you live under the same roof. As said, I have to deal with the fallout of this callousness in my line of Work. Granted, most people are Not going to the lengths I need to get involved. But Christmas is approaching and the days are short and cold. It's my time of year again to rise and shine.
And this year will be the worst. I will have to bring the News to my dearest and oldest friend. My wife at that introduced them. We will be guilty of killing the Soul of my dearest friend.
That why this Threads triggers me so much. If OP admits it or not, she still rationalises her behaviour as at least Party the fault of her husband. And her Not mentioning him once outside this rational speaks volumes to me. She says she cares. This Thread says otherweise.
And that is why I will Stop to answer now. Too close to home.
She will anyway Not let us know more than she did now and Just wants to be told that she is right and her husband made her so it. The Rest - words.


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

LoriD1974 said:


> I don't believe there is a "reason" I had an affair. There were a series of events and emotions that I feel led me on that path. The wrong path. That list included grief (my mother died 2 months previously), loneliness, boredom, feeling undesired by my husband, frustration with my career. I feel like the affair was a distraction from these things that together were overwhelming for me. I knew what I was doing was appalling and went against everything I'd believed morally. It really just snowballed and the day's weeks' months just passed by so quickly it really was like an out of body experience, like I was just a spectator watching from the sidelines. My question in regards to "husbands unintentionally stifling their wives sexuality" isn't something I had thought about previous to my affair, that is something that more so occurred to me afterwards. I didn't go looking for someone that would engage me more sexually than my husband, that was just the result. A result I'm not proud of.


More nonsense. The reason is straight forward. You wanted to. You were attracted to your AP. You had the opportunity and you had no expectation of being caught. You were selfish. There is no mystery. Once more with the feelings. You provide excuses like any other cheater not explanations or justifications.

For all your challenges and/or grievances you chose not to approach your husband for support. You felt you were undesired by your husband. Did you do anything to push your husband away like all adulterous women looking for an excuse to stray? If an actual problem in the marriage doesn't exist one can be manufactured so that an individual feels justified in betraying their spouse.

You knew what you were doing was appalling but you did it anyway for days, weeks, months. Such is the power of validation and the thrill of excitement. How many lies and deceptions did you practice in such a span?

You didn't go looking for someone. Most women don't have to. 

Blameshifiting. Your whole question, _Do husbands unintentionally stifling their wives sexually,_ is simply an attempt to lay blame on your husband for your selfish choices. Either you are attracted to your husband or you are not. If not then you married him for security (keep the home, pay the bills) and sought excitement elsewhere like so many other women do.

Your gave no thought to the question you asked before your affair. So why bother now? There is no mystery. You did as you desired. No other reason is required, just act on your feelings.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

LoriD1974 said:


> Reading through many of the post on the "Coping with Infidelity" section, a common theme is that the BH are devastated that their wives during the affairs will do, act or engage in sexual scenarios they won't engage in within their marriage. I can (ashamedly) agree that during my affair I was often much more willing with my AP to engage in spontaneous, explicit sexual encounters than with my husband. I don't feel I did anything that in the right setting/atmosphere I would not do with my Husband, just that he never asked for, seemed to desire or assume I'd want to do those things with him. My AP most definitely allowed me to revel in my sexuality. So I'm wondering if anyone feels that husbands may stifle their wives sexuality within their marriage by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings.


I brought up anal and all sorts of cream-pies but she always rejected (apologies for the explicit language). Not only was I rejected, I was explicitly asked to not bring it up again.

And then I found out she was doing a**-to-mouth with the AP. Go figure!

Maybe I didn't know [_roll of the eyes on_]*how to ask*[_roll of the eyes off_].


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

We had and to a degree still have the opposite. My wife has always been reticent about being sexually adventurous. We have had many discussions about it and at least partially, it boils down to her view of being a "good girl".

There are somethings that neither she or I are interested in, like anal stuff. To be clear, we are 109% monogamous, so I am not talking about swinging or threesomes or stuff like that.

If I am correct, I think the term for my wife's sexuality is "responsive desire". I honestly cannot remember on single time when she was the initiator in forty years. At least for me, I really, really desire and fantasize about her just being aggressive and leaving me a happy and exhausted man.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

OP, how has your sexual experiences been with your H since he found out about your affair? Or did he ever find out?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I think so....  But are you trying to find and "excuse" for your cheating?


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

LoriD1974 said:


> Thank you for this reply. I was 26 and my husband 21 when we married so this is actually a complete possibility for us. I don't feel I hid my sexual past from him but I was probably not forthcoming with it either, it was 21 years ago so hard to remember. Thank you.


Looking back, did you _prefer_ more vanilla sex with your now husband? (Perhaps as a way of proving that you weren’t “that kind of girl”?) Were you happy that that he was sexually inexperienced?


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

I believe your point has merit. The problem with marriage and a committed relationship is that even both partners are sexual and have otherwise healthy sex life we accept each other's sexual boundaries and thus suppress our own sexual kinks and desires. It applies to both genders. Would you bring to your partner your cuckold kinks or desire to swing? What if it is less dramatic and yo always dreamt about anal and your partner does not even want to hear about it? with AP if it is just sex you can be completely sexually open. Even if your kink is not welcomed who cares, it is just sex, you also not really care what your AP thinks about you.

I also think people underestimate or brush away sexual compatibility when getting married and this leads to all kind of problems.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Why didn’t you divorce instead of cheat? Cheating isn’t the natural “next step” when a spouse isn’t getting their needs met.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

*Deidre* said:


> Why didn’t you divorce instead of cheat? Cheating isn’t the natural “next step” when a spouse isn’t getting their needs met.


I understand that sounds perfectly logical to a person of strong monogamous belief, but I don’t believe most cheaters want a divorce. I think they want to be able to play both sides of the field…..unless it’s an exit affair to divorce.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Mr.Married said:


> I understand that sounds perfectly logical to a person of strong monogamous belief, but I don’t believe most cheaters want a divorce. I think they want to be able to play both sides of the field.


Totally agree - they don't want to leave the good things that they have in the marriage, but also want to experience what they think they're ''missing.''


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

*To stick to your original question, and not commenting on the infidelity,* 

Yes...I think in many cases, spouses unwittingly or even sometimes wittingly, can stifle the other's sexual response. 


When a spouse takes the time to dress up (lingerie or suit or takes more time getting fit), and hopes for a certain response, but the partner barely notices...

When a spouse expresses a desire for more intimacy, and they feel they have effectively communicated, but nothing changes...

When one person 'wants' the attention and time from the other, but it's not reciprocated back at the same levels...

When one spouses begs for date nights or interactive adventures, and the other only wants to stay home and watch tv...


*As far as the infidelity part of it....*

There are SO many cases of spouses shutting one another down, creating a sexual and intimacy void. It's not really a husband's vs wives issue.

I (the wife) was the one cheated on, by my husband, and when I looked back at the messages that were sent back and forth between the AP and himself...there it was...all the attention and compliments and desire that I had BEGGED for from my husband. It's no different than the husband that has begged for BJ's from his wife, only to find out she was giving them to someone else. Anytime there is an affair, it seems the the AP is going to get what betrayed spouse was hoping for all that time. 

Why does *that* happen? I don't have enough time in the day to even dissect my thoughts on that.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

LoriD1974 said:


> Reading through many of the post on the "Coping with Infidelity" section, a common theme is that the BH are devastated that their wives during the affairs will do, act or engage in sexual scenarios they won't engage in within their marriage. I can (ashamedly) agree that during my affair I was often much more willing with my AP to engage in spontaneous, explicit sexual encounters than with my husband. I don't feel I did anything that in the right setting/atmosphere I would not do with my Husband, just that he never asked for, seemed to desire or assume I'd want to do those things with him. My AP most definitely allowed me to revel in my sexuality. So I'm wondering if anyone feels that husbands may stifle their wives sexuality within their marriage by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings.


Are you trying to make excuses for your cheating? Otherwise what is your point?
Because your husband failed to initiate to the type of sex you desired, your solution was to find solace and sexual satisfaction with another guy.
Why did you not initiate your sexual desires with your husband?
Is this the first time you slept with another guy during your marriage? Because most cheaters claim it was their first time.
I do hope your husband discovered your affair and booted you out of his life.
Sorry, but you are not relationship material, just another cheating wife.
That`s the reality, there can be no excuses.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Your affair was 10 years ago but you are recently separated after being married since 26. Do you believe your past transgression is part of your current separation?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

@LoriD1974 There is no question that some men do things that can and do stifle the sexuality of their wives. However, I think that is very rare. I think what is more common is they may unintentionally do things that create resentment, which in turn reduces the wife's attraction to them, but they aren't purposely stifling the wife's desires to be an animal in bed. That has absolutely nothing to do with what cheaters do with their AP. More often than not the BH would happily do everything the AP did, but the cheating wife has chosen to take those things off the table.

The affair offers a NSA environment and it removes all their inhibitions. The cheater is essentially a different person when they are with their AP. They no longer give two ****s about their spouse in that moment, they are in the most selfish mode a person can be in. They don't even care about the welfare of their children in that moment.

I know you say it isn't the case, but I believe your line of thinking is an extension of you trying excuse your horrendous behavior while cheating on your husband. You have a lot of guilt to deal with and this is another way to do it. You know you could have chosen to do all those things with your husband, but you didn't want to. This must have been his fault, right? Isn't that what you are doing, blaming him for your repressed sexuality that your "alpha" AP pulled out of you? I hope you realize he was only alpha in that you were just a piece of warm meat to put his pee pee in. So of course he was acting very "alpha" in bed. The reality though, is he was nothing more than a worm of a man and human being for not respecting another person's marriage.

Since the affair ended, have you done any of those things you did with your AP with your husband? Do you have more or less respect for your husband now than the year before the affair?

ETA: I saw in another thread you talked about how you enjoy giving oral sex, but a lot is dependent on how the man makes you feel during the act. Let me guess, your AP made you think he was loving it so much more than your husband, correct? Is that some of what you are getting at?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

@LoriD1974 

Since you gained so much knowledge and understanding about your sexuality from your affair, did you encourage your husband have one so he could get the same knowledge and understanding?



> sleeping_sandman said:
> You exchanged the one man who would give you the world for an asshole with a big ****.





> This comment was accurate.


If you're saying that your F Buddy is better equipped and better able to satisfy you than your husband is, you have created an expectation that your husband can never meet, regardless of how much he wants to. Find yourself one of the few above-average guys (all the guys on TAM are above average) and hope he's not an asshole. Good luck with that.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

First off, I would argue blame shifting. OP is basically saying “see you made me do this by not reading my mind and believing me constantly telling you you’re my non-sexual safety blanket.” 

Ester Perel talks a lot about the dichotomy of the erotic and domestic. Comfort and stability are the #1 driver for many women and it’s akin to having a great secure job that doesn’t really excite you or one you have a passion for. But you’re not gonna quit despite it being boring. You’ve put in a lot of time at that job to get where you’re at and don’t want to start over. What would people think if you quit? So you may find it exciting to moonlight for a competitor doing things for them you’d never do for your current boss.

She also mentions that danger and fear of loss drives women to do things like blow a random guy in a bar bathroom. She’s competing against other women. In marriage, she doesn’t have to complete so she constantly communicates she values comfort and security. When you constantly do that over years, guys believe their spouse telling them who they are… comfort and security seekers. So he becomes a comfort and security blanket and then she steps out because he doesn’t do it anymore for her. This is akin to him blaming the wife for him cheating because she let herself go after years of him being more concerned about her being a mom first and foremost.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

BootsAndJeans said:


> We had and to a degree still have the opposite. My wife has always been reticent about being sexually adventurous. We have had many discussions about it and at least partially, it boils down to her view of being a "good girl".
> 
> There are somethings that neither she or I are interested in, like anal stuff. To be clear, we are 109% monogamous, so I am not talking about swinging or threesomes or stuff like that.
> 
> If I am correct, I think the term for my wife's sexuality is "responsive desire". I honestly cannot remember on single time when she was the initiator in forty years. At least for me, I really, really desire and fantasize about her just being aggressive and leaving me a happy and exhausted man.


I’m in the same boat. My wife rarely if ever initiates and when she does it’s just her telling me if I want to have sex I need to go close the door. 

My wife takes the good girl attitude to the extreme. Anal isn’t an option which I’m fine with, but oral is also not an option nor are any other positions other than missionary. As she puts it oral is what porn stars do.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

GoodDad5 said:


> I’m in the same boat. My wife rarely if ever initiates and when she does it’s just her telling me if I want to have sex I need to go close the door.
> 
> My wife takes the good girl attitude to the extreme. Anal isn’t an option which I’m fine with, but oral is also not an option nor are any other positions other than missionary. As she puts it oral is what porn stars do.


Well please move over and make space in your boat for one more.
It`s exactly the same for me, has been for years. 
I`ve never cheated and will not cheat, but believe me I have been tempted at times. 
Unfortunately, when wives reach that mode rarely can they ever change. That`s it for life. 
There are videos circulating on YouTube whereas a guy sets up his girlfriend to get hit on by a fit good looking guy, played by an actor to see if their girlfriends fall for the bait while their boyfriends and the crew are watching and listening on secret cameras. 99% of these women fail the loyalty test.
I wonder if something like this was played on our wives if they would fail and act like the OP on this thread and if they would behave like raving ally cats with other guys they fancied?
Would be a very interesting experiment.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Well, I'd say you hit a raw nerve mentioning a woman's sexuality being stifled with her husband vs with an AP!
I will attempt to add my view point less the preaching. I DO think some men can inhibit a woman's sexuality for various reasons. It can work both ways as well. Some men will put their wives on a pedestal of purity! They could never do such dirty and naughty things as THOSE other women. This probably happens most, early in marriages of younger more novice partners. Some men are very passive beta personalities and don't state what they do and do not want nor actively try new things. Their mates usually are more reserved as well. They become friends with other ladies and soon find out just how very vanilla their private life is. Just they fail to communicate this to the husband and or he doesn't hear her. So they continue down the vanilla road.
There is also the ambiguity of sexual expression, some due to social acceptance or religious beliefs. This is big issue when one of the partners may feel or know they are bisexual.
My wife would have no excuse for this. I was very experienced before we met. I have always been assertive and strong in desires and the expression of this with us. There has always been way more that I desired to do and had done vs what she wants, desires or has experienced. Just she's a very vanilla prude.
So yes I think it is fair to say that husbands can repress their wives sexual expression in marriage. However it's a 2 way street and is absolutely no real excuse for either to be unfaithful.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

LoriD1974 said:


> So I'm wondering if anyone feels that husbands may stifle their wives sexuality within their marriage by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings.


Communication is a two way street. A wife can communicate with words or actions to let her husband know (or remind him) that she is a sensual, sexual being.

I have no problems with my husband in the bedroom (or otherwise), but I do communicate and do stuff like buy outfits meant for the bedroom to surprise him with. And even though we've been married for 15 years and have four kids (in other words, it could be a very hum drum marriage if we didn't make time for each other or neither put forth effort), when he sees me in a bedroom outfit, it revs his engine instantly.

He keeps things fun in many ways also. For example, I got a pair of new winter boots yesterday and I said "I wanna show you my boots", and when I showed him, he enthusiastically said "Ohh, I thought you said you wanted to show me your boobs!" -- this was a very minor thing, but it made me laugh and made me smile that my hubby still gets excited at the thought of seeing my boobs! LOL

I get so happy, excited and giddy at date nights with hubby. My husband looks at me across a restaurant table like it's the first time he's looking at me and often later tells me that throughout dinner, he couldn't stop thinking about what was to come later on in the night! When a server asked us if we were celebrating anything as we were being seated, my husband replied "being in love!"

I have a good relationship with my husband but it's not because I'm "lucky". My marriage involves ongoing communication and work. The payoff is a very happy husband and wife.



LoriD1974 said:


> My AP most definitely allowed me to revel in my sexuality.


Well, of course he did. Sex was the purpose of your relationship with your affair partner.

On the other hand, your husband helps pay the bills, like the mortgage or rent, helps raise children (if you have any), mows the lawn, works hard for his family and makes you chicken soup when you are sick with a cold. In other words, this is the man who loves you.

Of course I think a married couple should have a healthy sex life. But to compare your husband with an AP is ridiculous. Also ridiculous is putting the onus of all things sexual on the husband.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

My answer to OP's initial question is "yes," and I will explain from my own experiences. Married twice...7 years and 24 years.....I turn 60 next month, lft my husband 6 years ago. Have lots of girlfriends, some of which have had affairs, others divorced and some married for 35+ years. 

Courtship is a time of getting to know one another but very tainted by the hormones that out body produces when we are in love. Women especially are at risk as the high levels of oxytocin that flood the brain after sex help us bond but allow us to overlook obstacles we should be paying very close attention to. Men are very attentive in the beginning as they want to insure what is theirs but I have found men, once they feel they have reached the goal of winning the prize, tend to focus again on themselves and perhaps unintentionally neglect the support/ needs of their partner. 

Women are emotional creatures, we bond with our lady friends through conversation, sharing personal information, telling each other how we feel about this situation or that, lending support and kindness to the friend. This is how lady friends become close. A man might play the role of provider or protector but I think it is rare to find a man who will allow himself to be vulnerable as this might look weak. I have actually known some that did and I was the closest to these men. 

Women wake up out of their hormone induces haze and many times this is when we are seeing our partner for who they truly are for the first time. Men have moved back into the coziness of their own duties and obligations by this point. I think a majority of men do not understand what is needed from them to continue the closeness in bonding women need to feel loved. It is not just about the 5 Love Languages as many say. While it certainly can be helpful I think more than anything is it our biological makeup that creates the separation between men and women.

We all know that men generally have a high desire for sex, not meaning that women do not, but I do believe that men put more focus on sex in a relationship than women do. In the beginning stages of a relationship we are focused on each other and wanting to meet the needs of the other. I have had some of my lady friends say they would have sex with their partner just to please them or make them happy. To me, it seems that men retain that high interest in sex even as our individual lives go their separate ways in relationships and we no longer have the focus on each other, while I am not sure it works the same with women. We have to have a partner that shows us love, gives us attention without it being related to sex, we need support emotionally and many times we do not receive it from our husbands. They are used to handling their own situations without help but us ladies will gather support around us and we want the man in our life to be the strong hero by our side. When these things do not happen I feel women feel unloved or unwanted by their husbands. 

Then you compound habits that men tend to do like playing video games, or always golfing, excessive gym time, hunting, porn use, flirting with other women, drinking with the guys and more and more time is being spent alone for the woman and she is not getting quality time with her partner. She wants his time, she needs that time to be close and the very thing she needs is being denied so again she feels unloved and unwanted by him. She sees his interests in other women and not her which makes her feel devalued as a woman.

So you have all of these factors in place and then the man who is clueless to how to meet his partner's needs still wants that sexual connection, the rest seems unimportant at this point. The woman is waiting for her needs to be met not realizing he is not even thinking this way. He still wants the sex but has no idea that he had to make this connection in order for his partner to feel wanted or loved by him. I do feel this is why men get rejected and why ladies see men as only wanting sex. 

Men are raised in a world of competition among other men. Each one of them has to hide their feelings, hide their weaknesses, hide who they are to make it to the top in whatever endeavor they have. So you have those who stomp their way to the top in their career, or you have the funny guy who everyone wants to be around, the wise man who knows all the facts and numbers....the list goes on but I think you get my point. Inside of each of these men they are hiding themselves. It very difficult to be open and transparent. For two people to truly understand the other we have to identify with that person inside and let those walls down. Women do it too....the nice girl who always wants to please. It seems to me only through education, experience and a willingness on both sides can two people truly connect.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

AVR1962 said:


> My answer to OP's initial question is "yes," and I will explain from my own experiences. Married twice...7 years and 24 years.....I turn 60 next month, lft my husband 6 years ago. Have lots of girlfriends, some of which have had affairs, others divorced and some married for 35+ years.
> 
> Courtship is a time of getting to know one another but very tainted by the hormones that out body produces when we are in love. Women especially are at risk as the high levels of oxytocin that flood the brain after sex help us bond but allow us to overlook obstacles we should be paying very close attention to. Men are very attentive in the beginning as they want to insure what is theirs but I have found men, once they feel they have reached the goal of winning the prize, tend to focus again on themselves and perhaps unintentionally neglect the support/ needs of their partner.
> 
> ...


Interesting read.
But I can't shake the when women cheat it's their husbands fault Vibe.
But maybe it's just me


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

sleeping_sandman said:


> Interesting read.
> But I can't shake the when women cheat it's their husbands fault Vibe.
> But maybe it's just me


I don't think she's meaning to blame the husband for a wife's infidelity. She is just saying that most women would not be tempted to wander away to get their deep needs of attention and care met by somebody else if her husband made an effort to give her time and attention. An unattentive husband creates a vacuum in the wife and nature abhors a vacuum.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

sleeping_sandman said:


> Interesting read.
> But I can't shake the when women cheat it's their husbands fault Vibe.
> But maybe it's just me


I did not address cheating and the OP did say she had an affair. I have had a few lady friends who had affairs. Every single lady friend who cheated was not getting her emotional needs met by her husband. I do believe that men cheat for a different reason.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

sleeping_sandman said:


> Interesting read.
> But I can't shake the when women cheat it's their husbands fault Vibe.
> But maybe it's just me


Right but when you look at it through a gynocentrist lens it makes perfect sense... when wives cheat it the husband's fault and when husbands cheat its the husband's fault. See your fault lies in that you thought sex was a 50-50 proposition but really it's a 100-0. It's tricky but once you weed out common sense it starts to click into place.


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## Northern.Guy (10 mo ago)

Commenting on the OP, yes I think husbands often stifle their wife's sexuality for this very reason you say, *by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings*. First and foremost I'd say a higher drive husband can express disappointment and frustration, whether it is verbal or just through behavior. A wife that feels like she is not enough or bad in bed is a sexually stifled wife. As husbands, when we express appreciation and enjoyment, pursue our wives sexually and enjoy every encounter for better or worse, the wife is free to begin opening up sexually in ways she hasn't before. Until then, she will more likely close up to activities that make her feel more vulnerable, and sex becomes something that she copes with, closing off variety and going with what works for her in the situation.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

UAArchangel said:


> I don't think she's meaning to blame the husband for a wife's infidelity. She is just saying that most women would not be tempted to wander away to get their deep needs of attention and care met by somebody else if her husband made an effort to give her time and attention. An unattentive husband creates a vacuum in the wife and nature abhors a vacuum.


Which in turn does put the blame in the husband.
He is working too much, he is earning not enough. He is a recluse or hanging Out with Friends too much. 
Thing is that buying a House and providing for the children costs time. Effing her in some backalley motel while her husband is hopefully watching the Kids doesn't. And even If He doesn't, who cares? The sorrow might come later, or not.
He buys her Gifts? Great, hubby will do the Same. Just lets sell the Home real quick, k?
By the way, that works the other way round in exact Same lines.
Which makes it abbundently clear that cheating is a decision. Everything else is trying to excuse oneself to oneself.
Just saying. But I bengone again.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

AVR1962 said:


> I did not address cheating and the OP did say she had an affair. I have had a few lady friends who had affairs. Every single lady friend who cheated was not getting her emotional needs met by her husband. I do believe that men cheat for a different reason.


But as upside down said: cheating wife, husbands fault, cheating husband, husbands fault. You say IT YOURSELF, right up there. They cheater because the husband... No they cheated because they wanted to.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

sleeping_sandman said:


> But as upside down said: cheating wife, husbands fault, cheating husband, husbands fault. You say IT YOURSELF, right up there. They cheater because the husband... No they cheated because they wanted to.


I beg to differ, there is a difference in what I said. I have seen women whose needs were not getting met by their husbands that have cheated, yes but I did not say this was their husband's fault. I have found that men and women who cheat have had a cheating parent as a child and have had this as an example in their formative lives. Cheating is a choice whether man or woman.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

sleeping_sandman said:


> But as upside down said: cheating wife, husbands fault, cheating husband, husbands fault. You say IT YOURSELF, right up there. They cheater because the husband... No they cheated because they wanted to.


A hammer will always see nails.

Take a deep breath. She isn’t the enemy.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I think so....  But are you trying to find and "excuse" for your cheating?


That’s exactly what she’s doing.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

GoodDad5 said:


> I’m in the same boat. My wife rarely if ever initiates and when she does it’s just her telling me if I want to have sex I need to go close the door.
> 
> My wife takes the good girl attitude to the extreme. Anal isn’t an option which I’m fine with, but oral is also not an option nor are any other positions other than missionary. As she puts it oral is what porn stars do.


Same same here brother. You're not alone there.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

I'm going to respond to what @LoriD1974 asked for and address the question “do husbands unintentionally stifle their wives sexuality?” and avoid the back-story re her infidelity.

To answer your question OP, I think I did unintentionally stifle my wife's sexuality for the first part of our marriage - partly due to illness on my part. I recovered well enough to start thinking about ways of improving all aspects of our relationship through better sex. After reading “Mating In Captivity” and a few other books I concluded that a husband needs to actively encourage his wife to explore her sexuality. NOT ask her for sexual acts and get frustrated by a lack of interest. NOT demand sexual acts because they’re married. Instead, the path is helping your wife explore her sexuality by being 100% the leader in the sexual relationship. For me, this turnaround took about three years – partly because she was not prepared for our marriage to take this turn in direction - I became sort of an unknown quantity to my wife for a while by suddenly expressing great interest in actively exploring wilder sexual experiences with her.

As for the past, someone wrote about men getting involved with women that have higher expectations when the man doesn’t have enough experience. This was indeed the case in my first two relationships - my second girlfriend was indeed frustrated retrospectively. I had some disadvantages - A] I was inexperienced B] I was a shy introvert C] I was completely happy with our sex life, which was more tantric based. I was much more interested in making love to my girlfriend than exploring the rougher, kinkier animalistic sex that she was secretly hoping for me to deliver.

I think this also brings up an interesting point regarding what others have mentioned - that marriage-sex and affair-sex are completely different scenarios. As a husband you’re looking to find a balance between being a caring, considerate, loving and respectful partner… and sexually satisfying her crazy untold desires. Not always an easy task. With an affair partner there is NO LOVE AND CARING so the crazy wild kinky sex can just run amuck – after all that’s usually what the affair is for.

I’ve come to the conclusion that a husband DOES have an obligation to keep his wife's life from being routine in the bedroom. Obviously a wife has some responsibility as well, but husbands should boldly open up that space initially and make everything available to her in an emotionally safe environment.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

sleeping_sandman said:


> But as upside down said: cheating wife, husbands fault, cheating husband, husbands fault. You say IT YOURSELF, right up there. They cheater because the husband... No they cheated because they wanted to.





Mr.Married said:


> A hammer will always see nails.
> 
> Take a deep breath. She isn’t the enemy.


I know, But be honset. A sentence like:I have had a few lady friends who had affairs. Every single lady friend who cheated was not getting her emotional needs met by her husband. 
It has vibe of blameshifting, don't you think? 
As the whole thread here.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

sleeping_sandman said:


> I know, But be honset. A sentence like:I have had a few lady friends who had affairs. Every single lady friend who cheated was not getting her emotional needs met by her husband.
> It has vibe of blameshifting, don't you think?
> As the whole thread here.


I absolutely understand your point. I’m not denying it. I think as individuals we all have our own bias and outside influence. I’ve never been burned and have no skin in the affair game with myself, parents, or siblings so I’m probably more neutral in my mind when I read things. While she did mention emotional neglect I’m also “making the assumption” she also puts the affair blame on the woman completely…. despite the husband neglect.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

sleeping_sandman said:


> I know, But be honset. A sentence like:I have had a few lady friends who had affairs. Every single lady friend who cheated was not getting her emotional needs met by her husband.
> It has vibe of blameshifting, don't you think?
> As the whole thread here.


I think the OP definitely had an agenda, but I don't believe @AVR1962 meant to blame shift. Taking her comments out of context like this does make it feel more like that is what she was doing. I got something different from it when reading her whole post. I'm pretty sure she agrees that there is no excuse for cheating, none. However, I think she is pointing out that there was an unintended emotional disconnect between husband and wife prior to the cheating. That is something that should be brought to light by the wife since she is the one feeling that way. It is usually a repairable issue. A good wife will try to talk with her husband about it and fix it. A bad wife cheats.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think the OP definitely had an agenda, but I don't believe @AVR1962 meant to blame shift.


Yes Thank You! Unlike my garage you conveyed the sentiment exactly 👍


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LoriD1974 said:


> I don't believe there is a "reason" I had an affair. There were a series of events and emotions that I feel led me on that path. The wrong path. That list included grief (my mother died 2 months previously), loneliness, boredom, feeling undesired by my husband, frustration with my career. I feel like the affair was a distraction from these things that together were overwhelming for me. I knew what I was doing was appalling and went against everything I'd believed morally. It really just snowballed and the day's weeks' months just passed by so quickly it really was like an out of body experience, like I was just a spectator watching from the sidelines. My question in regards to "husbands unintentionally stifling their wives sexuality" isn't something I had thought about previous to my affair, that is something that more so occurred to me afterwards. I didn't go looking for someone that would engage me more sexually than my husband, that was just the result. A result I'm not proud of.


Do you think you may have stifled your husband's sexuality?

Flip the script. You probably know well your husband could have had a wilder, more fulfilling sexual experience with another woman if he had an affair with a woman who didn't have any other cares except having a good time with your husband and worked him up and over well.

Maybe you weren't rocking his world like you should have been?

Also, could you elaborate on a couple points that you seem to allude to?

It seems you just liked sex better with the loser and you might have been more physically attracted to him? One post indicates he had a bigger unit than your husband?

If so, those are all things that reside in your lap for responsibility and not his.

Unless he was making terrible hygiene decisions and getting obese or something.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

"with an affair partner there is no love and caring" I beg to differ, I know a woman who left her husband of some years and is now married to her ap and has been for nearly six years


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Yep men can stifle their wives sexuality but becoming a fat slob, glued to the sport on TV and not showing care for the one he should care the most about


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think the OP definitely had an agenda, but I don't believe @AVR1962 meant to blame shift. Taking her comments out of context like this does make it feel more like that is what she was doing. I got something different from it when reading her whole post. I'm pretty sure she agrees that there is no excuse for cheating, none. However, I think she is pointing out that there was an unintended emotional disconnect between husband and wife prior to the cheating. That is something that should be brought to light by the wife since she is the one feeling that way. It is usually a repairable issue. A good wife will try to talk with her husband about it and fix it. A bad wife cheats.


Yes, and at the same time I am also not label bad and good. I have had so many situations regarding this topic and what one considers cheating, etc. People cheat, plain and simple. Some are capable and some are not. 

Of the OP's question but to illustrate....not to blame. I went to a restaurant to eat dinner and I always sit at the bar in the restaurant so that I am not sitting at a table alone. This rather handsome man a chair away starts conversing with me, in a get-to--know you fashion. I notice the ring on his hand and asked if he was married. He tells me that yes he is and his wife is out of town. he goes on to say that he has been married 7 years and loves his wife and wants to save his marriage but they do not have enough sex so he cheats. So he wants to save his marriage....interesting way to save one's marriage. In the dating world now for 6 years and what is the #1 complaint from men? They didn't get enough sex in their marriage. Is it all about sex? The last guy I dated and I were ripping it up between the sheets and neither of us had any complaints but it sure wasn't enough for him. Guys like their freedom without obligation, they like the thrill of pursuit of something forbidden, they like variety.....all of which I can say are not important to women but we all play this cat and mouse game to get what we want from the other and many times neither gets their needs met.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

AVR1962 said:


> Yes, and at the same time I am also not label bad and good. I have had so many situations regarding this topic and what one considers cheating, etc. People cheat, plain and simple. Some are capable and some are not.
> 
> Of the OP's question but to illustrate....not to blame. I went to a restaurant to eat dinner and I always sit at the bar in the restaurant so that I am not sitting at a table alone. This rather handsome man a chair away starts conversing with me, in a get-to--know you fashion. I notice the ring on his hand and asked if he was married. He tells me that yes he is and his wife is out of town. he goes on to say that he has been married 7 years and loves his wife and wants to save his marriage but they do not have enough sex so he cheats. So he wants to save his marriage....interesting way to save one's marriage. In the dating world now for 6 years and what is the #1 complaint from men? They didn't get enough sex in their marriage. Is it all about sex? The last guy I dated and I were ripping it up between the sheets and neither of us had any complaints but it sure wasn't enough for him. Guys like their freedom without obligation, they like the thrill of pursuit of something forbidden, they like variety.....all of which I can say are not important to women but we all play this cat and mouse game to get what we want from the other and many times neither gets their needs met.


Very interesting but I disagree that women cheaters don't want variety. They are a cake eating lot just like the men.

Great pick up line BTW. "Why yes, I am married but she isn't enough so would you like to be my side piece?"🙄


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

An excellent line if the woman is looking for an nsa affair. Typical pua tactic try and if you fail try again


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

Kput said:


> An excellent line if the woman is looking for an nsa affair. Typical pua tactic try and if you fail try again


nsa affair?


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

No strings attached


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

> I think the OP definitely had an agenda, but I don't believe [the other] meant to blame shift. Taking her comments out of context like this does make it feel more like that is what she was doing. I got something different from it when reading her whole post. I'm pretty sure she agrees that there is no excuse for cheating, none.


The way some people focus on alleged agendas rather than answering the questions makes me feel like I’m watching a Kevin Samuels video. The OP could be correct regardless of any agenda.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Great pick up line BTW. "Why yes, I am married but she isn't enough so would you like to be my side piece?"🙄


Hey darlin’ ….. you look like a nice warm place to bust a nut while my wife isn’t around.

Ooohhhh…… pure romance ❤


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Thing is an experienced man looking to "pull" a married woman would not be very obvious at first, he would act self confident with an edge of vulnerability. 

He would encourage the woman to talk about herself as most people do like to talk about themselves and noting verbal "entry points" to offer sympathy. He would try to get the woman to talk about her partner and if she says negative things he would console whilst offering similar negatives about his own partner.

It is all very simple and mostly will not work however even a blind man will hit a bullseye once in a while.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Kput said:


> Thing is an experienced man looking to "pull" a married woman would not be very obvious at first, he would act self confident with an edge of vulnerability.
> 
> He would encourage the woman to talk about herself as most people do like to talk about themselves and noting verbal "entry points" to offer sympathy. He would try to get the woman to talk about her partner and if she says negative things he would console whilst offering similar negatives about his own partner.
> 
> It is all very simple and mostly will not work however even a blind man will hit a bullseye once in a while.


That’s kind of just natural though I think. Any sane guy comfortable around the opposite sex knows that game. Let them talk … the more you let her mind fill in the blanks about you the better unless as a man you are interesting as hell with a different life than most and have a confidence in your tone.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

You know that and I know that but a lot of men have no game and I am long out of practice.


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## LoriD1974 (2 mo ago)

CraigBesuden said:


> The way some people focus on alleged agendas rather than answering the questions makes me feel like I’m watching a Kevin Samuels video. The OP could be correct regardless of any agenda.


Thank you for your reply. My original question was a legitimate one, in no way was I saying that I became involved in an affair "because" my husband stifled my sexuality. There are a culmination of things that lead to me making that decision and no-one could be more disappointed in that decision than I am, the backlash for it here is mild in comparison. I will not be divulging every detail as I am fully aware there are NO legitimate reasons to stray from my marriage.  I mentioned my affair as a reference to the question many posters had querying why their wives willingly partook in various things sexually with their affair partners and not with their husbands. If this is the case then there must be some explanation as to why the women are able to abandon their inhibitions and become more sexually adventurous. I understand that the husband/AP dynamics are vastly heterogeneous but ultimately something switches in the women's mind to allow her to not only participate but relish in the experience. I do understand that comment may be offensive to some but that doesn't make it untrue.

To the people that have taken the time to answer with logical thought or reason thank you.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LoriD1974 said:


> Reading through many of the post on the "Coping with Infidelity" section, a common theme is that the BH are devastated that their wives during the affairs will do, act or engage in sexual scenarios they won't engage in within their marriage. I can (ashamedly) agree that during my affair I was often much more willing with my AP to engage in spontaneous, explicit sexual encounters than with my husband. I don't feel I did anything that in the right setting/atmosphere I would not do with my Husband, just that he never asked for, seemed to desire or assume I'd want to do those things with him. My AP most definitely allowed me to revel in my sexuality. So I'm wondering if anyone feels that husbands may stifle their wives sexuality within their marriage by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings.


Sounds like you styfled yourself if you never really engaged with your husband in that way. Your language is very passive about your own sexuality. Why did you need someone else to bring out your sexual nature? Maybe your husband didn't understand that it was his responsibility to do that, and maybe with someone else it wouldn't be his.

To be blunt your language implies that the problem was as much yours, and not just your husband. It's YOUR sexuality, YOUR nature. Seems to me in a healthy marriage you both should communicate and express your sexuality with your partners or at least try. That is the point of marriage right. It's YOUR marriage, this is the one person you have pledged to have sex with, and you absolve yourself of all responsibility of an aspect of your own nature. I would think you should want to build a sexual relationship with your partner that is engaging and growing, you have agency in that, as least as much as he does. Being passive in that part of your marriage is what lead you to your issues not your husband. It's probably the exact vulnerability that your AP exploited. Maybe you didn't even know you were missing something, maybe it was a surprise to you, but then it was an aspect of your nature that you were probably not engaged with, but was also a big aspect of your marriage. This is never a good thing.

Now maybe your husband didn't care about that, maybe he still doesn't. In fact, if he knows this about your affair and you stayed married then that is a pretty big tell that he doesn't care because for most men this would be a bridge way too far. So it's also possible that he didn't engage you either. But in my mind then this is not a healthy sexual relationship. And both of your failings, not just his as you are not saying, I was trying to spice things up and he was vanilla.

But I still say I don't like this idea that some women have that a man must bring out her sexual nature, like they are totally passive in that. What do you bring sexually to your marriage? Don't you have some responsibility or is it because he is the man it's all on him? This is a very selfish but unfortunately typical way to think about an important aspect of marrage. What other aspect of the marriage is talked about like that. For instance imagine a husband saying "maybe I wasn't responsible with money because my wife didn't bring that responsibility out of me." It's 2022, just this general thinking would be a huge red flag for me. It doesn't seem healthy.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

LoriD1974 said:


> Thank you for your reply. My original question was a legitimate one, in no way was I saying that I became involved in an affair "because" my husband stifled my sexuality.


Lori,

Thank You for being honest, I like to hear what WWs have to say, so many seem to minimize and sugar coat.

Did You ever recover your relationship with your BH in a sexual and intimate way to the same level of passion you had with OM? Or did things like kissing feel empty, orgasms fewer and less intense.

To answer your question, at least with my partial opinion......

I think there is a certain fear, perhaps instinctive, in some men that female sexuality is unlimited, multiple orgasms, they are beautiful and desirable, can give birth, easier to find multiple partners etc which causes some men to try and supress their wives sexuality. Could be that these men look at themselves and feel lacking by comparison.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

The OP`s husband is or was living with a soulless, lying, deceitful, non-compassionate woman, delusional, self-esteem deficient, morally bankrupt creature. The husband will be broken because she has nothing to bring to the table except emotional turmoil. In addition, she also has great expectations that her husband should do everything for her, make her feel better and provide the life she feels she deserves. All this while she cheats behind his back with the “bad boy” she really wants to party with and giving her AP for free while her husband is supporting her. If this sounds like a good deal I`ll eat my head. I say to husbands in these situations, good luck with that.
Who would want live with someone that is not what they seem to be at face value, not truly your friend, and is just using you while secretly seeking their jollies elsewhere, probably giving up more of themselves to others (as the OP has admitted) than to her husband and unwittingly having strangers brought into the relationship.
This is the deal one is getting when married to a cheater.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

so_sweet said:


> Communication is a two way street. A wife can communicate with words or actions to let her husband know (or remind him) that she is a sensual, sexual being.
> 
> I have no problems with my husband in the bedroom (or otherwise), but I do communicate and do stuff like buy outfits meant for the bedroom to surprise him with. And even though we've been married for 15 years and have four kids (in other words, it could be a very hum drum marriage if we didn't make time for each other or neither put forth effort), when he sees me in a bedroom outfit, it revs his engine instantly.
> 
> ...


Yep, this is how I see it's supposed to work.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

LoriD1974 said:


> Reading through many of the post on the "Coping with Infidelity" section, a common theme is that the BH are devastated that their wives during the affairs will do, act or engage in sexual scenarios they won't engage in within their marriage. I can (ashamedly) agree that during my affair I was often much more willing with my AP to engage in spontaneous, explicit sexual encounters than with my husband. I don't feel I did anything that in the right setting/atmosphere I would not do with my Husband, just that he never asked for, seemed to desire or assume I'd want to do those things with him. My AP most definitely allowed me to revel in my sexuality. So I'm wondering if anyone feels that husbands may stifle their wives sexuality within their marriage by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings.


The men who are complaining are usual ones who asked (perhaps even begged) the wife to perform certain acts. She refused to do it, claiming that she never did and never would do such a thing. Then he learns that she did them in the past or did them with an AP. Those are not instances of the husband stifling his wife by not communicating with her. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think that men are particularly concerned that their wives did more things in the past (or did more things with their AP) - it's that she denied those things to him when he requested it, and then doing those things for the AP is the betrayal.

When you say that you would have done those things with your husband in the right setting/atmosphere, you aren't saying whether you denied those to him outside of those settings. It would be very difficult for a husband to create the kind of setting/atmosphere that you'd enjoy during an affair.

I do believe that women (and men) are willing to do just about anything to maintain a physical relationship with somebody who is incredibly sexy or "out of their league." It's easier for women to have sex with a man who is out of her league marriage-wise but he's willing to sleep with her (or a man who is incredibly sexy but he's not what she'd consider marriage material), so I think you're more likely to hear husbands complaining about this than wives. Additionally, the sneaking around and sexiness of the affair probably creates an atmosphere far sexier than between a husband and wife. And a wife doesn't need to worry that her husband won't respect her if she performs certain acts such as anal sex and ATM (ass to mouth fellatio).

I think that some husbands probably stifle their wives by not treating her like she's the sexiest woman alive. He might see her (and treat her) like she's a good girl and she wants him to continue to see her as a good girl. Ultimately, though, if she's feeling stifled then she needs to communicate that. Maybe there are reasons that he's not acting like she's the sexiest woman alive anymore -- maybe she's gained 50 pounds, for example. Maybe she kept turning him down for sex and eventually he stopped trying so much. Who knows.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LoriD1974 said:


> Thank you for your reply. My original question was a legitimate one, in no way was I saying that I became involved in an affair "because" my husband stifled my sexuality. There are a culmination of things that lead to me making that decision and no-one could be more disappointed in that decision than I am, the backlash for it here is mild in comparison. I will not be divulging every detail as I am fully aware there are NO legitimate reasons to stray from my marriage. I mentioned my affair as a reference to the question many posters had querying why their wives willingly partook in various things sexually with their affair partners and not with their husbands. If this is the case then there must be some explanation as to why the women are able to abandon their inhibitions and become more sexually adventurous. I understand that the husband/AP dynamics are vastly heterogeneous but ultimately something switches in the women's mind to allow her to not only participate but relish in the experience. I do understand that comment may be offensive to some but that doesn't make it untrue.
> 
> To the people that have taken the time to answer with logical thought or reason thank you.


Emotional retardation and/or damage. Grown ass women do not have problems like this. It isn't a common thread that happens with all women.

Your premise is fatally flawed to begin with because you are certainly referencing cheating women which excludes all others.

If you want to talk about the percentage of women who are cheaters and have better, more uninhibited sex with their AP's, that is a small percentage of women indeed because many cheaters actually cheat down and many cheaters do not have better sex with their AP's.

If you would reference this issue without including damaged women, we could dispense with the cheating mindset.

What is your sex life like with your husband? Did you reconcile?

You need to answer questions as well as ask.

I have some input for your original post but it has to ignore your nonsense about cheating women who have better sex with their AP's because they are a very small group of womanhood.

You can't paint all women with this brush


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

DamianDamian said:


> Women (and men to a lesser degree) are always more turned on by new. That good man that treated you right for years? Nah. Brand new alcoholic ahole with herpes? Yes please. It's all about hormones. Your husband suffered too - sexual frustration to some degree is part and parcel of a long term relationship.
> Only difference is that some women are intelligent enough to recognize this and prioritize other things over sex and work with their husband's for better sex.
> Giving in to your baser instincts when you made a sacred promise not to is opening the door to hell - I'm not religious, it's just a metaphor for your sh1t new life - get some kitty litter.
> Anyone that uses the term 'alpha' is not someone I'd waste my time socializing with. It makes me think of sub 90 iq drugged up white trash trying to talk over each other.


_women are always turned on by the new and men to a lesser degree_? Are you sure you have that the right way round? it is well known that men (generally) like a bit of strange (new) and their eyes do all the talking too, no? What stats did you base such a sweeping statement? I am curious.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

So I'm wondering if anyone feels that WIVES may stifle their HUSBANDS sexuality within their marriage by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings.

Those husbands revel in the sexuality with their affair partners of course.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Yes, if you are continually communicating your partner’s sexuality is a burden, gross, unwelcome, silly, shameful or the last thing on your mind. You’re stifling it all right and it’s like trying to hold a beach ball under water. 

Regardless of which spouse it is… and purposely or unintentionally… you get more of what you reward and less of what you penalize. OP should take a look at possible ways she had/was disincentivizing her husband’s sexuality.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

I call ********.
Most women I know who have cheated repressed their husbands sexuality then flipped the script.
1. woman refuses her husband spontaneous sex, but meets a random dude at movie theater to **** at the theater.
2. woman will only have sex with her husband in bed but will bend over a car hood for affair partner and beg him to do her right there on the hood
3,4, 5,…….


LoriD1974 said:


> At the time, yes I did revel in it, *hence why mine and many others affairs continue*. It may be abhorrent, but true.


The way it’s written you’ve had a 21 year affair. 

That’s selfishly disgusting to treat someone claim to love like that.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

red oak said:


> I call ******.
> Most women I know who have cheated repressed their husbands sexuality then flipped the script.
> 1. woman refuses her husband spontaneous sex, but meets a random dude at movie theater to **** at the theater.
> 2. woman will only have sex with her husband in bed but will bend over a car hood for affair partner and beg him to do her right there on the hood
> ...


Unfortunately, this has also been my experience and the experience of all cheat-ees I know: wife withheld sex from the husband and completely flipped the script with the affair partner. 

I had to get divorce papers served to my XW for her to come clean (no pun intended) on her escapades. Don't get me wrong, our sex life was decent, but she was just f-cking the brains out of her last AP. I asked her a couple of questions about her sexual encounters, knowing I had nothing to lose at that point, and what came out of my XW's mouth, let's just say... I wanted to go back home and take a bath in holly water. 

I mean, she was literally, sexually, at this man's mercy with an abandonment I haven't even seen among crack addicts.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

BoSlander said:


> Unfortunately, this has also been my experience and the experience of all cheat-ees I know: wife withheld sex from the husband and completely flipped the script with the affair partner.
> 
> I had to get divorce papers served to my XW for her to come clean (no pun intended) on her escapades. Don't get me wrong, our sex life was decent, but she was just f-cking the brains out of her last AP. I asked her a couple of questions about her sexual encounters, knowing I had nothing to lose at that point, and what came out of my XW's mouth, let's just say... I wanted to go back home and take a bath in holly water.
> 
> I mean, she was literally, sexually, at this man's mercy with an abandonment I haven't even seen among crack addicts.


Ironically, I think for many people who have cheated, their AP becomes an addiction. Perhaps, that's why not too many leave their marriages willingly for their AP, because deep down, they know that the affair is really just something filling a void.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

BoSlander said:


> Unfortunately, this has also been my experience and the experience of all cheat-ees I know: wife withheld sex from the husband and completely flipped the script with the affair partner.
> 
> I had to get divorce papers served to my XW for her to come clean (no pun intended) on her escapades. Don't get me wrong, our sex life was decent, but she was just f-cking the brains out of her last AP. I asked her a couple of questions about her sexual encounters, knowing I had nothing to lose at that point, and what came out of my XW's mouth, let's just say... I wanted to go back home and take a bath in holly water.
> 
> I mean, she was literally, sexually, at this man's mercy with an abandonment I haven't even seen among crack addicts.


I asked a woman about it one time. 
Her words: “with her husband she wanted respect, and if she did anything wild with him she felt she would loose power. With an AP it was just sex not relationship so it wasn’t a concern.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> Ironically, I think for many people who have cheated, their AP becomes an addiction. Perhaps, that's why not too many leave their marriages willingly for their AP, because deep down, they know that the affair is really just something filling a void.


And allthewhile killing the soul of their Spouse bit by Bit until the damage is oozing over to the children.


red oak said:


> I asked a woman about it one time.
> Her words: “with her husband she wanted respect, and if she did anything wild with him she felt she would loose power. With an AP it was just sex not relationship so it wasn’t a concern.


In the end it's all about self-perception. 
Not realising that when caught all her wanted respect is down the drain shows that.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LoriD1974 said:


> Reading through many of the post on the "Coping with Infidelity" section, a common theme is that the BH are devastated that their wives during the affairs will do, act or engage in sexual scenarios they won't engage in within their marriage. I can (ashamedly) agree that during my affair I was often much more willing with my AP to engage in spontaneous, explicit sexual encounters than with my husband. I don't feel I did anything that in the right setting/atmosphere I would not do with my Husband, just that he never asked for, seemed to desire or assume I'd want to do those things with him. My AP most definitely allowed me to revel in my sexuality. So I'm wondering if anyone feels that husbands may stifle their wives sexuality within their marriage by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings.


I'm a little late to the party and I have not read the 5 pages of discussion. 

I think this is a very fascinating topic and I also believe it is a much bigger and broader question than what many will realise. 
I think volumes of books could be written about this topic and still not cover everything. 

I will start by saying that not only do I think husbands UNintentionally stifle their wife's sexuality, but I believe a good number INTENTIONALLY stifle it. 

But I do not want to make that sound like men are being "controlling" or mean or domineering or being buttholes. I think some of it comes down to the simple facts of different jobs have different job descriptions and hiring managers will look for different qualifications and skillsets when hiring for different position. 

The job description of a wife and mother of your children and one that you will share a mortgage and day-to-day domestic duties is fundamentally different than that of an affair partner or a porn actress or an escort/sugar baby or a party girl that you go home with when the bars close down. 

If you are looking for a hook up at closing time, you are going to look for different qualifications and skillsets and temperments and characteristics than you will if you are going to look for someone with whom you will share a home, financial accounts, credit rating, mortgage and who will carry and raise your progeny. 

When you read enough posts on here and listen to what people say out in the real world, you will quickly see that a good number men choose their wives due to the fact that they largely appeared fairly NONsexual or at least showed a very high degree of sexual temperance and discipline if not actual sexual inhibition or repression. 

And even in today's world right now there are a good number of red pill pundits out there telling men to intentionally seek virgins or at least very low-count women are are telling their followers that if a woman has sex with more than a handful of people that she is outright damaged and rendered incapable of connection and forming close bonds with a man. 

Some of the things that men fear and revile most in this world are female infidelity and promiscuity and I think many men also fear their own vulnerability to a very sexually powerful woman. This can manifest in a number of ways in how men might even simply talk in day-to-day conversation if the topic of a sexually active or especially cheating woman comes up. It will become quite apparent how many people, not just men, will disparage a woman's sexuality if it comes out that she is not completely heteronormative and within the bounds of a strictly traditional long term monogamous marriage. 

So some of it is surely unintentional, but I think there is still a lot of slu+ shaming and sexual disparagement that goes on that is quite intentional. 

Cont.....


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LoriD1974 said:


> My AP most definitely allowed me to revel in my sexuality.


This right here is the bombshell that I believe is behind a lot of this sexual schizophrenia where women seem to be so much more sexual and adventurous and uninhibited with other people besides their official partner. 

Let me put this into my job description analogy above - When an OM arranges a hook up with MW and checks into some Notell Motel, he is not auditioning someone to be a dutiful and responsible wife and mother of his children and someone he will bring home to mom. He is looking for some hot, nasty, passionate, uninhibited, wild monkey sex. 

But more importantly, the WW knows knows she is not being expected to be a good Jesus virgin and sexually tempered dutiful wife and mother. 

In essence, she is being ALLOWED to be a passionate, uninhibited, passionate, sexual being. Let me also add that when a WW walks into that motel room, there is absolutely no expectation on her of being a virtuous, sexually tempered, faithful woman whatsoever. Both the WW and the AP know she is not a sweet and innocent paragon of sexual virtue. 

.......so why hold anything back??? The Beast is now set free. 

Cont.......


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Hi oldshirt, I must be missreading you because I would have assumed most men would want their wife to be a total wh0re and an uninhibited slvt but loyal to them


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

The anthropoligist/researcher Dr Wednesday Martin has quite a bit of material about this and has done quite a bit of research on this kind of thing (not specifically female infidelity per se but it does cover it quite a bit) 

Dr Marten's conclusions are that female sexuality is very fluid and the term that she uses to describe it is -"Female sexuality is very fluid and takes the shape of it's social container."

OK that is a very powerful statement. 

So what that means is a woman's sexual response will often live up to or down to it's social expectations in a given environment. 

To put that into practical terms, a woman growing up in an ultra-conservative, purity culture and she will be very sexually respressed and sex-negative and will have very rigid views on sexual morality and gender roles and expectations. She will often look to the community for sexual guidance and often will get into a quasi-arranged marriage brokered by her family and church and community elders with a man that they see as a proper husband/father even though she may not necessarily have any innate sexual attraction for him. But since she has been raised to believe that sexual desire and carnal pleasures are bad - she sees her lack of desire and sexual response towards him as good. 

Are you following me?

Now, take that woman as a more self-aware adult and transplant her into the swinger community. Put her into peer group and community where things like enthusiastic consent, sexual agency, privacy and discretion and sexual desire and pleasure are embraced and where female sexual desire and consent are valued and where she has her own total agency and control over who she is attracted to who she desires and is in an environment that does not rigidly adhere to strict monogamy and behind the closed doors and discretion of an on-premise club, she may have various forms and various levels of sexual contact with literally a dozen or more different men and women during the course of an evening. 

Those are two extreme examples but it highlights the context of sexual fluidity and the influence that the social environment can have. 

Dr Wednesday Martin uses the example of some women-only sex club in New York (I can't remember the name). She tells of many women who have lived completely heteronormative lives and are faithful, hetero monogamous wives and mothers that identify as heterosexual and heteromonogamous and appear to the outside world and mini van driving soccer moms with honor student bumper stickers, will go to this club where there are no men allowed inside at all and safety, consent and agency are all paramount and these women will do things with other women that the porn industry has not even caught wind of yet. 

And then at the end of the night, they will get into their mini vans with the honor student bumper stickers and drive home to their families and check in on the sleeping kids and then crawl into bed with their husbands. 

Women are kind of sexual chameleons that appear like their surroundings. Or as Dr Martin puts it, their sexuality takes the shape of their social container.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Kput said:


> Hi oldshirt, I must be missreading you because I would have assumed most men would want their wife to be a total wh0re and an uninhibited slvt but loyal to them


I'm not taking about what men want. 

I was talking about what men do.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Sorry I must be more than a bit thick but that I don't fully understand your last post.

That said I do understand the woman's sexual fluidity, my w has in the past been turned on by lesbian porn


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Kput said:


> Sorry I must be more than a bit thick but that I don't fully understand your last post.
> 
> That said I do understand the woman's sexual fluidity, my w has in the past been turned on by lesbian porn


Youre not thick, it is a complex concept and I may not have the right words or verbiage to explain myself clearly. 

Yes, you are correct in that a lot of men want the freak in the sheets but virtuous virgin on the street. They want the wild and untamed sex monster all to themselves. - that's what they "want".

But what I was referring to in my first post is what they DO. What men often DO when seeking a wife and mother of their children is many men will screen for sexual temperance and self restriction,,,, some to the point of actual repression and inhibition and some even to the point of sexual dysfunction. 

And men often speak in very disparaging terms of female sexual activity and adventurism,, ie slu+ shaming. 

So what has been created in a bit of sexual schizophrenia where men are seeking these sexually repressed and inhibited church girls in hopes that putting a magical ring on their finger will transform them into insatiable sex maniacs....... but only for them. 

I'm intentionally exaggerating everything to make to the point. 

In my earlier post I was talking about what men DO rather than what they WANT. The irony comes into play when what men do in seeking a mate goes almost completely contrary to what they want in bed.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Gotcha, makes sense. Thanks for clarifying


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Kput said:


> That said I do understand the woman's sexual fluidity, my w has in the past been turned on by lesbian porn


The issue of porn is kind of a somewhat related side note. 

Actual studies into women's response to porn indicates that women respond to ALL forms of porn to a higher degree than men. 

Again social influences are very impacting on women and per Chick Code, women have to publically disavow porn. 

But in laboratory studies where women are being physiologically monitored and objective data on their physiologic status is being recorded, women respond to a much wider variety of erotic imagery than men. 

Heterosexual men respond to hetero porn and lesbian porn. Gay men respond to gay men. Both gay and straight men show very little if any response to imagery of great apes mating. 

Women on the other hand respond to it all... even the chimpanzees getting down to a degree. Women have a wider sexual strike zone than men and are more influenced by their environment and context. 

Women are just more fluid and adaptable to their environment and to social expectation and allowance. 

Men typically are more rigid in their sexuality and less fluid and adaptable to their environment and social expectation. 

Put a straight man in a gay club and he is going to stand out like a sore thumb and will typically not ever have any desire to rub up against any men for any reason. 

Put a gay man with a bunch of hot, horny women, and he'll make creme brulee for them and help them match their shoes with their earings and then go on about his business.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Maybe it is better to be in a relationship with someone who was a stranger when you met rather than someone you knew for years before you hooked up. No preconceived ideas.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

(A little thought experiment here. I have intentionally not read any of the subsequent posts after the first post because I wanted to keep my perspective on the first post and not get side tracked by the subsequent posts. My fear here is since infidelity was mentioned, that a very intriguing and pertinent topic will quickly descend into a battle over infidelity and possibly some personal attacks against the OP who has brought up an otherwise very pertinent topic. I'll start to read the rest of the thread and I hope I am wrong about where I suspect it will go)


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

red oak said:


> I asked a woman about it one time.
> Her words: “with her husband she wanted respect, and if she did anything wild with him she felt she would loose power. With an AP it was just sex not relationship so it wasn’t a concern.


That is such a dumb assumption on their part! I mean, if wives were to completely sexually succumb to their man’s wishes (and viceversa,) I’d bet my two testicles and a kidney that those men aren’t going anywhere!


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> (A little thought experiment here. I have intentionally not read any of the subsequent posts after the first post because I wanted to keep my perspective on the first post and not get side tracked by the subsequent posts. My fear here is since infidelity was mentioned, that a very intriguing and pertinent topic will quickly descend into a battle over infidelity and possibly some personal attacks against the OP who has brought up an otherwise very pertinent topic. I'll start to read the rest of the thread and I hope I am wrong about where I suspect it will go)


We’re all adults.

If you’re that concerned about other people’s wellbeing, why don’t you take care of my next ConEd bill? Put your mouth where… never mind.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> (A little thought experiment here. I have intentionally not read any of the subsequent posts after the first post because I wanted to keep my perspective on the first post and not get side tracked by the subsequent posts. My fear here is since infidelity was mentioned, that a very intriguing and pertinent topic will quickly descend into a battle over infidelity and possibly some personal attacks against the OP who has brought up an otherwise very pertinent topic. I'll start to read the rest of the thread and I hope I am wrong about where I suspect it will go)


Well shooooot. I'm only a handful of posts in and I can already see I was right. Dammit! This was good topic was (is) a good topic worthy of serious contemplation and discussion and touches on a much wider spectrum of human sexuality rather than about whether some gal cheated 10 years ago or not although the topic can encompass some of the dynamics that can exist within an infidelity situation as well.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BoSlander said:


> We’re all adults.
> 
> If you’re that concerned about other people’s wellbeing, why don’t you take care of my next ConEd bill? Put your mouth where… never mind.


Why the anger and condescension? 

This doesn't have anything to do with well being. I think it's an interesting and pertinent topic in general that deserves some thoughtful consideration and discussion.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

All those adjectives that are used to describe a cheater are painted on, the colorful coats, hard lacquered, after that first, blood red patina.

Paint is superficial, a cheaters emotions are rarely that.

Most, are those spinning visions of some temporary love found, a shady spot, a steamy oasis in the dry desert of their life.

Who among us, does not desire such stimulation?

Tis' morally wrong, that cheating.

Yet, humans and morality are always at odds.

Our five senses are powerful persuaders. They overpower our long term survival.

Si, that sin, thoroughly unsettles our sensibilities.

Some, blame Satan's quiet speech.

I blame the soft feeling of satin sheets on dampened skins.

Guilt, if any, is over ridden by the afterglow, the scent of musk, of lust, yet to subside.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> I did not address cheating and the OP did say she had an affair. I have had a few lady friends who had affairs. Every single lady friend who cheated was not getting her emotional needs met by her husband. I do believe that men cheat for a different reason.


How wrong you are.
On this....

Many men have those same emotional needs.

I do, do still.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Correct, "I want you to want me" is many man's "need" that is why duty sex is so inadequate for many.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I find my feet at so many places on Earth.

My mind remains here, refusing to be uprooted.

I cannot abandon thee, the dream will not die, nor expire.

Join me, or release me, I am not that token coin rubbed shiny in your pocket.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

easy answer to this one every couple is different for the ones saying my told my wife I wanted or I would like to try x y or z and she refused me but then when she cheated she done all them and more 
your approach, your mind set , and everything about you comes into play as does the person your doing it with ,


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

aine said:


> _women are always turned on by the new and men to a lesser degree_? Are you sure you have that the right way round? it is well known that men (generally) like a bit of strange (new) and their eyes do all the talking too, no? What stats did you base such a sweeping statement? I am curious.


I have been following anthropologist/researcher Dr Wednesday Martin and clinical psychologist and marriage therapist Dr Samantha Rodman Whiten aka Dr Psych Mom quite a bit lately and they maintain that a lot of current research is showing that women are actually more negatively impacted by boredom and status quo within a long term, monogamous relationship than men. 

Women lose their sexual desire within a long term relationship earlier and more substantially than do men. Men actually remain at a steady state of attraction and desire with one partner more than women. 

It's not that these women become asexual. It is that their sex drive attenuates within the first couple years of a LTR/marriage after the NRE/Honeymoon rush has worn off and then especially after kids arrive and they switch into Mommy Mode. 

They have not lost their sexuality however. They have just lost a lion's share of their desire for their partner. Their libido can quickly come raging back in like a charging bull if another man (or sometimes woman) comes into the picture and catches their eye. 

It was long thought that women had lesser sexuality and less interest in variety and novelty than men. Current research methods and metrics are showing this to be false and that women actually become sexually bored and complacent and lose their desire for their long term partner faster and more substantially than men.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

It is that long held resentment that stifles, stiffens one's spine.

The hackles showing, they hold the angry lovers apart.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

frenchpaddy said:


> easy answer to this one every couple is different for the ones saying my told my wife I wanted or I would like to try x y or z and she refused me but then when she cheated she done all them and more
> your approach, your mind set , and everything about you comes into play as does the person your doing it with ,


She done them with others, not for pleasure, but for spite.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Mr.Married said:


> So I'm wondering if anyone feels that WIVES may stifle their HUSBANDS sexuality within their marriage by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings.
> 
> Those husbands revel in the sexuality with their affair partners of course.


Absolutely. 

Again, I think a whole series of books can be written on this as well. 

Just read a few of these sexless marriage posts and there are quite a few guys that report that they have been told no so many times and have faced so much rejection and dismissal that they have lost about all attraction for their wives and you can see that many of them have just given up and resolved themselves to a life of drinking beer and getting fat on the couch indulging in their hobbies and self entertainment. 

Some of it is intentional and even institutionalized as well. How often do men reach out for some love and intimacy only to be shoved away and told that they are nothing but a horndog and only care about one thing and that it all they think of etc etc.

We at least have a term for slu+ shaming in women. What do we even call it when men's sexuality is maligned and ridiculed and attempted to smash it down?


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> I have been following anthropologist/researcher Dr Wednesday Martin and clinical psychologist and marriage therapist Dr Samantha Rodman Whiten aka Dr Psych Mom quite a bit lately and they maintain that a lot of current research is showing that women are actually more negatively impacted by boredom and status quo within a long term, monogamous relationship than men.
> 
> Women lose their sexual desire within a long term relationship earlier and more substantially than do men. Men actually remain at a steady state of attraction and desire with one partner more than women.
> 
> ...


Women have evolved to be cheaters. 

Even swans, they DNA tested the eggs and I believe 1 in 6 is by another bird than her “mate for life.” They’re very talented at not getting caught.

Women innately want the nice guy to orgasm after her (so that her cervix dips into the acid below, shielding her cervix with a layer of acid to kill his inferior sperm), while with bad boys they want him to orgasm first or simultaneously so that her cervix will dip and toss/suck his sperm up inside to her egg. They innately know to make moaning noises when the nice guy orgasms inside, faking a simultaneous orgasm.

Women innately know to say that a baby looks like its father when he’s present, but they don’t say that when he’s not in their presence.

Women are more physically attracted to men with faces evidencing high testosterone (bad boys) when ovulating, and more attracted to more feminine guys (nice guys) when they are not ovulating. So the husband is sleeping with her frequently but the bad boy APs sperm gets better opportunities to fertilize her eggs.

The high-testosterone guys with (what used to be) the best genes are not good fathers. The more feminine guys make good fathers but don’t have (what used to be) the best genes. Nature wants them to cheat. Women have to struggle against their very nature to be monogamous. If she does it, her body shuts down her sex drive so she doesn’t have a bunch of kids by (what used to be) genetically inferior nerds whose children (were) far less likely to survive.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Again, I think a whole series of books can be written on this as well.
> 
> ...


Socially acceptable.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CraigBesuden said:


> Women have evolved to be cheaters.
> 
> Even swans, they DNA tested the eggs and I believe 1 in 6 is by another bird than her “mate for life.” They’re very talented at not getting caught.
> 
> ...


Well, this is hogwash.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> Well, this is hogwash.


All backed by science.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

samyeagar said:


> Socially acceptable.


That's what I mean by the term institutionalized. Just watch a few evening sit coms on tv for one night and you'll see what I mean. 

Men are portrayed as bumbling buffoons that can only be lead around by their dcks and who have no more cognitive ability than to try to find their next pssy.

And look at how women have been historically portrayed in pop culture. There is the wise old married mother who if it was not for her, the husband and kids would play in the street until they got ran over by a bread truck. She is the bedrock of society that keeps the world from descending into chaos and madness.

And there is the ditzy blond party girl (that is at least highly insinuated to be promiscuous) that would paint her nails and do her hair until she starved to death or was used and abused and chained up in the crawlspace of some big, bad man if it were not for the sage advice and guidance of the TV mom. 

Either way, the social message is that sex is bad and that those who seek sex for it's own enjoyment is bad and is a threat to the very fabric of civilization and only the wise old asexual TV mom can save us from ourselves.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CraigBesuden said:


> Women are more physically attracted to men with faces evidencing high testosterone (bad boys) when ovulating, and more attracted to more feminine guys (nice guys) when they are not ovulating. So the husband is sleeping with her frequently but the bad boy APs sperm gets better opportunities to fertilize her eggs.
> 
> The high-testosterone guys with (what used to be) the best genes are not good fathers.


I'm going to change your verbiage around a little bit. 

Females are probably always more sexually attracted to the more masculine male during times when she is about to ovulate until shortly after she ovulates,, ie when she is physiologically capable of conceiving. 

When she is not in a period of conceiving, she is more amendable to having a more feminine and supportive man (beta) around vs a more aggressive and masculine (alpha) man around. 

It's not that she's sexually desiring the beta during times of inert. She really isn't spontaneously desiring anyone at that point. She just tolerates having the more agreeable and helpful beta around more. 


And in terms of who makes good fathers, this is social construct influenced by social standards and expectations. 

In earlier times in hunter gatherer and agricultural and earlier industrial societies, alpha males were the good fathers that brought home the meat, fought off the invaders, plowed the fields, built pyramids and developed and ran dangerous industrial equipment all day. 

What has changed is now is the societal expectations has now shifted to where fathers are still expected to do those things, but now they are also expected to be defacto mothers as well. 

So alpha males used to be considered the good fathers. But now they are considered to be bad mothers.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CraigBesuden said:


> All backed by science.


LoL! It's junk science and not widely applicable at all.

Effeminate men make better fathers? Palease!

High testosterone men make bad dad's? These statements are laughably false and easily debunked by a little thing called real life.

You've got a fantasy world built up in your head and it's kind of an ugly one at that.

My grandfather was arguably good looking, lived, worked and raised six kids through the great depression, had a voice that could shatter glass if he wasn't careful and was strong enough to bend steel.

He was also a great father and family man.

That's real life pretty much shattering the fantasy "science" you have going on there.

I inherited some high test biology and I'm arguably a good family man and father who loves children.

I'm also of the school of thought that includes "she comes first" so I've almost always given Mrs. C at least one (sometimes three) orgasms before I even go for getting mine and the only time we did not use protection, she conceived despite having orgasms first.

More reality for you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> I'm going to change your verbiage around a little bit.
> 
> Females are probably always more sexually attracted to the more masculine male during times when she is about to ovulate until shortly after she ovulates,, ie when she is physiologically capable of conceiving.
> 
> ...


Hmmm.. this makes for interesting thinking. Might be some truth here.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> Well, this is hogwash.


He may have been taking things a little too far and making it a bit too absolute, but the general concept holds more reality than not. 

The herd vigor and long term survival of all species depends on genetic diversification. 

I am willing to bet that from day the first hominids walked the earth until the earth crumbles back into cosmic dust, that there will not be one single day where every single matings between human beings will be strictly with their one monogamous, official partner. 

I am willing to bet that no one day of the existence of an entire species will that not be people having extra pairings or additional pairings or multiple pairings or however you want to define it from the first introduction of the species until the day after total extinction. 

Not one day. 

Now to be clear, I am not saying that each individual will have multiple pairings throughout it's life and I am not even talking about infidelity per se as that is a social concept. I am saying that humans are not, never have been, and never will be innately monogamous by nature as a species as a whole. 

Some individuals will choose to be. Some individuals will choose to not mate at all. Some will not have the traits and characteristics that will make them desirable enough for another to mate with. 

But as a species, we are no where even close to being innately monogamous. 

Genetically we are still on plains of Africa and in the jungles and deserts and mountain tops etching out a genetic survival.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

CraigBesuden said:


> Women innately want the nice guy to orgasm after her (so that her cervix dips into the acid below, shielding her cervix with a layer of acid to kill his inferior sperm), while with bad boys they want him to orgasm first or simultaneously so that her cervix will dip and toss/suck his sperm up inside to her egg.


It's a complicated subject. (I was a friend of a biologist who researched this). I've heard it told where the woman would prefer to come first, when she wants to get pregnant, so as to open up her cervix. (Ie the opposite way round to the quote above). In any case, it's pretty clear that women's bodies have a lot of control of whether they get pregnant.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Returning to the OP for a moment....


LoriD1974 said:


> My AP most definitely allowed me to revel in my sexuality. So I'm wondering if anyone feels that husbands may stifle their wives sexuality within their marriage by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings.


Oh, I'm sure that happens! 

Many men are (or were in my day) brought up in the assumption that women really don't want sex, and had to be persuaded, one way or another. So we communicated, without even thinking about it, that we didn't expect the woman to revel (good word!) in sexuality. 

The reverse happens, of course, with emotions. Women sometimes stifle their husbands' emotions.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> LoL! It's junk science and not widely applicable at all.
> 
> Effeminate men make better fathers? Palease!
> 
> ...


We were posting at the same time. Strong, masculine men actually make good fathers. 

We just happen to be living in a female-centric time where traditionally feminine and nuturing traits like child rearing and interpersonal cooperation and agreeableness etc are valued and being held up as the ideal. 

Strong, masculine men are currently being maligned in pop culture as abusive and self-absorbed and controlling and oppressing and womanizing and cheating etc etc etc etc 

The reality is that true strong, masculine are very loyal and protective and supportive and courageous and stand up for and protect and support their friends and families and communities and God and country. 

Our fathers and grandfathers did not jump out of airplanes behind enemy lines in the dead of night or storm beaches under a hail of machine gun fire and artillery because they were bloodthirsty killers and wanted to conquer foreign lands. It was to protect their own homes and families from being bombed and invaded and killed and raped by foreign invaders that were spreading across the globe. 

Strong men are supportive, protective and loyal. Strong men stand up for what they believe is right and speak out against what they believe is wrong. 

Strong men can and do change diapers and clean up baby puke. 

In days of yore, women of fertile age were either pregnant or nursing or rearing young children most of their lives. They needed a higher protein content in their bodies to develop a growing fetus and to produce nutritious milk, but they themselves were often in a bit of a vulnerable and tied up state and so it was the males that were sent to hunt and gather the meat, plow the fields, fight off the invaders and the predators and build the pyramids. 

It was the strong and loyal and supportive and protective men that were able and willing to do that. The others played with shadow puppets as the predecessors to video games and spanked to pornographic cave drawings and hieroglyphics.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> I'm going to change your verbiage around a little bit.
> 
> Females are probably always more sexually attracted to the more masculine male during times when she is about to ovulate until shortly after she ovulates,, ie when she is physiologically capable of conceiving.
> 
> ...


That’s an interesting take. From a human perspective and the way that you describe it with the males not present, that would appear just as likely to be true (alphas were the good fathers).

But when you put together all of the innate deception, and add in the other animals doing the same thing, I still believe the view that females of many species (including humans) have evolved to pick the best of both worlds: the male who is a great partner and (secretly) other male(s) who have stronger genes. The females’ vastly superior ability to cheat without getting caught is noteworthy.

Robin Baker’s “Sperm Wars” is a great read.

Earlier studies said that babies were usually said to look more like their fathers, acting as a “natural paternity test.” But then more recent studies found that mothers _claim_ that their babies look more like their fathers suggests evolved cuckoldry:

_ Two other studies in Evolution & Human Behavior, one in 2000 and one in 2007, found that newborns actually look more like their mothers than their fathers in the first three days of their lives, as judged by unrelated assessors. But *the babies' mothers tend to say just the opposite, emphasizing the child's resemblance to the father.* That, too, has a possible evolutionary explanation, according to D. Kelly McLain of Georgia Southern University and his co-authors of the 2000 study. "The bias in how mothers remark resemblance does not reflect actual resemblance and may be an evolved or conditioned response to assure domestic fathers of their paternity," the researchers wrote.

McLain and his colleagues even speculated that evolutionary pressures may have actually reduced the amount of paternal resemblance in newborns, thus ensuring that a putative father will care for a child even if the father has been cuckolded._









Fact or Fiction: Do Babies Resemble Their Fathers More Than Their Mothers?


Recent studies do not support the claim of an enhanced resemblance between fathers and their young offspring




www.scientificamerican.com


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

No, it’s well known by women (and science) that men with high testosterone levels (generally speaking) make terrible husbands and fathers. Our prisons are filled with them. It’s simply not debatable. It’s openly discussed as to why women pick “nice guys” (beta males) as husbands:

_After crunching the data—includ-ing the women's facial preferences, their country of origin and that country's national health index—the Face Lab researchers proved something remarkable. They could predict how masculine a woman likes her men based on her nation's World Health Organization statistics for mortality rates, life expectancy and the impact of communicable disease. In countries where poor health is particularly a threat to survival, *women leaned toward "manlier" men. That is, they preferred their males to have shorter, broader faces and stronger eyebrows, cheekbones and jaw lines. *The researchers went on to publish the study in this month's issue of the scientific journal Proceedings of the Royal Society: Biological Sciences._

*Masculinity, however, can come at a high price. Women often think of high-testosterone types as uncooperative, unsympathetic, philandering, aggressive and disinterested in parenting. In fact, there is evidence that they really do have more relationship problems than other men. * In a small study led by psychologist James Roney at the University of California, Santa Barbara, * 29 women were asked to look at photos of men and rate their masculinity and fondness for infants. (The men had already been tested for child-friendliness and testosterone levels.)  The men who were rated as the most masculine generally had higher testosterone levels; the women also were generally accurate in assessing child-friendliness. * 

* * *

*In another study of 2,100 Air Force veterans, men with testosterone levels one standard deviation above the mean were 43% more likely to get divorced than men with normal levels, 31% more likely to leave home because of marital problems, 38% more likely to cheat on their wives, and 13% more likely to admit that they hit or hurled things at them.*

* * *

As the social environment shifts, so may women's mate preferences. While Stone Age forces once wired women to associate strong cues of masculinity with their children's chance of survival, times are changing. The promise of improved health care in America could be one example of a shift.

*Another is women's financial freedom. * … No longer as reliant on men's genes or jobs to ensure the health and wealth of their children, women may come to value other qualities in a mate. It may become evolutionarily adaptive to prefer *men who are cooperative, communicative, caring and better parents over traditional "manly men." *

Then again, women have always asked, why must we choose either/or in a mate, and not all-in-one? In a study of 107 American married couples, evolutionary psychologists David Buss and Todd Shackelford found that * beautiful women (as determined by averaged ratings of eight teams of male and female interviewers) want it all in a partner: masculine, physically fit, loving, educated, desirous of home and children, a few years older than themselves and with a high income potential. *

While exceptionally attractive (or wealthy) women may indeed capture this ideal male, * most are forced by circumstance to settle for the best combination of traits. Some husband-seekers trade off masculinity for companionship and good parenting…. To secretly have it all, some women adopt a "dual mating" strategy—marrying a solid, faithful guy and enjoying trysts with hunks. As a result, up to 10% of babies born in some populations have fathers who are presumed to be their biological dads but aren't. *









Why Women Don't Want Macho Men


New research suggests that women from countries with healthier populations prefer more feminine-looking men. Jena Pincott on the science behind attraction and masculinity, and the future for manly men.




www.wsj.com


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> She done them with others, not for pleasure, but for spite.


that is a very twisted mind set anyway


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CraigBesuden said:


> No, it’s well known by women (and science) that men with high testosterone levels make terrible fathers. Our prisons are filled with them. It’s simply not debatable. It’s openly discussed as to why women pick “nice guys” (beta males) as husbands:
> 
> _After crunching the data—includ-ing the women's facial preferences, their country of origin and that country's national health index—the Face Lab researchers proved something remarkable. They could predict how masculine a woman likes her men based on her nation's World Health Organization statistics for mortality rates, life expectancy and the impact of communicable disease. In countries where poor health is particularly a threat to survival, *women leaned toward "manlier" men. That is, they preferred their males to have shorter, broader faces and stronger eyebrows, cheekbones and jaw lines. *The researchers went on to publish the study in this month's issue of the scientific journal Proceedings of the Royal Society: Biological Sciences._


Let's not confuse criminals with decent law abiding citizens. 

Marriage is a 24/7 proposition. Sexuality is a component of that but there are a million other things that go into that selection when you are looking at being with someone every day for many years if not forever and with whom you share a home and a life and raise a family.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Let's not confuse criminals with decent law abiding citizens.
> 
> Marriage is a 24/7 proposition. Sexuality is a component of that but there are a million other things that go into that selection when you are looking at being with someone every day for many years if not forever and with whom you share a home and a life and raise a family.


I edited my wording since then. These are just generalities. There are countless manly men who are good fathers and countless less masculine guys who abandon their kids. But the rule remains.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

CraigBesuden said:


> No, it’s well known by women (and science) that men with high testosterone levels make terrible fathers.


It's not "well known" by this woman!
My husband has high testosterone, a true alpha male. He is a wonderful father.

Being a good father is one of the marks of being an alpha male -- a true alpha male, not a wannabe or what people might incorrectly think is an alpha male.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Stop reading so much red pill crap. I've been down that road. It's useful in one respect, picking up women, but aside from that it's just a bunch of bunk. Like so many other things in the self help community, if you need a book to tell you how to be an "alpha" you aren't and never will be an "alpha".


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Stop reading so much red pill crap. I've been down that road. It's useful in one respect, picking up women, but aside from that it's just a bunch of bunk. Like so many other things in the self help community, if you need a book to tell you how to be an "alpha" you aren't and never will be an "alpha".


Can some help the stupid european out here?What the actual **** you are talking about? Are you intend on citing the rest of the greek alphabet, too?


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

sleeping_sandman said:


> Can some help the stupid european out here?What the actual **** you are talking about? Are you intend on citing the rest of the greek alphabet, too?


The Red Pill teaches that women in Western society have gone in full with their hypergamic tendencies of wanting to have sex with only the best men they can get and they will only come down in their standards when they want a stable man to marry or they have aged out. Consequently, those men who cannot meet the standard will not be able to date them and will only be considered when a woman's standards has to come down because she is older or she wants stability over sexual excitement. So basically, if you're not that man who can excite women sexually, you are considered a lesser man who is getting left-overs as far as relationships go. Think of it as being told in a job interview that you were the 150th resume in consideration and that was a deliberate decision on part of the company to choose you as 150th, because they finally ran out of people to consider. How excited would you be for that job, knowing that you were on the bottom and the company kept you on the bottom as long as there was somebody else they could consider? I don't think you'd find the job all that appealable.

There is some truth in the red pill community, but what often isn't taught are for these young men to better themselves. Learn some skills, relationship, domestic, life and job skills.
Also be choosy for themselves. If a woman has shown that tendency, she's a bad choice for you because she won't respect you. She's accepted you, because you were the 150th to be considered and she let you know it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Trying to get back to some semblance of the topic at hand, it's important to keep in mind that in order to live in a civilized society, we all need to control and in essence "stifle" our instinctive drives and also need to set boundaries and expectations of our partner's behavior as well. 

To quote the great philosopher Butthead - "taking a dump is natural. But we must learn to take a dump in the toilet."
No truer words have ever been spoken. 

If we are walking down the middle of the mall, we don't just drop our pants and pop a squat. Not only is it offensive and distasteful, it is a public health hazard and becomes serious threat to public health if everyone were to do it whenever and wherever the urge strikes. 

So too is anything sexual. To live in an orderly society we must temper our innate urges and drives and to be in a functional family unit we need to not only temper and control our own urges and desires but we must also establish boundaries and parameters and expectations of our partners as well. 

So in that sense we all do "stifle" our partner's sexuality. If they were running amok sexually whenever, wherever and with whoever, we wouldn't have them for a partner in the first place. 

So the question becomes where we draw that line and how we present it. Too little boundary and expectation and we're dealing with things getting out of hand and exerting too much pressure and going outside of comfort zones and consent and potentially infidelity. 

But too much and we're dealing with hang ups and repression and frustration and potentially rebellion.


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

let me make a general comment

You should be able to talk to your husband about anything and every day.

Have you conveyed your sexual desires?

Did your husband move away from you, did you stay away from your husband?

Did you talk about your expectations?

have you offered tests and treatment

Do you see it as your husband's fault for jumping on someone else without thinking about the emotional and physical harm you will inflict on your husband?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

so_sweet said:


> Being a good father is one of the marks of being an alpha male -- a true alpha male, not a wannabe or what people might incorrectly think is an alpha male.


Yeah the Pick up Artist, Red Pill, MGTOW and Incel communities have kind of taken the term "Alpha Male" and basically turned it into meaning a dude that bangs chicks and pushes other dudes around and bangs their chicks. 

The term was originally coined by zoologist observing animals that lived and worked in packs and groups. They noted that in many social animal packs that a particular male tended to be the dominant male that the other members of the pack/group followed. They noted that this male also often tended to have his choice of the fertile females and would chase off the other males that would try to breed with one of the ovulating chicks. They called these males, the alpha male of that particular group. 

Now these alpha males may have in fact had harems of available females at some point in time. But these so called alpha males were also the patriarch and paternal figure for these groups. In other words, they were the daddy. These are often familial and intermingled familial groups and the standing alpha is often the father to a number of the group. 

In groups like wolves and low land gorillas etc the alpha male is often big and strong and dominant, bangs chicks and kicks the ass of interlopers, invaders and other intruding males, but they are also very supportive and protective of their mates and offspring. They bring home the meat and figs and edible branches and if interloper from another pack or troop comes sniffing around in which case they will often try to kill the current offspring so the mother will go into ovulation again to where they can try to spread their seed, the alpha male will attack and protect and defend his family and his pack/troop. 

So the actual root of the terms comes from good mates and fathers that support, provision and protect their families.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Yeah the Pick up Artist, Red Pill, MGTOW and Incel communities have kind of taken the term "Alpha Male" and basically turned it into meaning a dude that bangs chicks and pushes other dudes around and bangs their chicks.
> 
> The term was originally coined by zoologist observing animals that lived and worked in packs and groups. They noted that in many social animal packs that a particular male tended to be the dominant male that the other members of the pack/group followed. They noted that this male also often tended to have his choice of the fertile females and would chase off the other males that would try to breed with one of the ovulating chicks. They called these males, the alpha male of that particular group.
> 
> ...


An interesting read. Thank-you.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

LoriD1974 said:


> Reading through many of the post on the "Coping with Infidelity" section, a common theme is that the BH are devastated that their wives during the affairs will do, act or engage in sexual scenarios they won't engage in within their marriage. I can (ashamedly) agree that during my affair I was often much more willing with my AP to engage in spontaneous, explicit sexual encounters than with my husband. I don't feel I did anything that in the right setting/atmosphere I would not do with my Husband, just that he never asked for, seemed to desire or assume I'd want to do those things with him. My AP most definitely allowed me to revel in my sexuality. So I'm wondering if anyone feels that husbands may stifle their wives sexuality within their marriage by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings.


I think that in your own relationship, maybe that was the case. That doesn’t mean that most relationships have husbands stifling their sexuality, and I don’t think any of the above has to do with cheating females doing more things for their AP if that’s even the case.

So my answer to your question is yeah, some men do that, some women do that, some people do stifle their partner not just in sex but many things. 


As an aside…The creep factor of some people examining how a woman wants to orgasm and attributing that to character is off the charts. Put down the statististics on “what women do/are/want.” Comparing human women to swans for Pete’s sake! “All women are designed to cheat, the proof is in the swan eggs!” 
Female dolphins drown human beings sometimes because they are horny, saw this on Discovery channel once. What does that mean about me I wonder? How about black widows??? 🤔 I better get myself under control quick, who knows what I’ll do with my out of control vajayjay!!!


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

I have to say the one thing that has been a head scratcher for me here on TAM is the seemingly universal view that there was nothing a BS could have done to better protect their marriage from infidelity. I get that cheating is a choice that the cheater makes alone and that there are some truly deplorable people out there that will be cheaters no matter what, but has no one ever seen a marriage that suffered infidelity and been not surprised. Like a situation where one spouse completely let themselves go, stopped doing any outside the house activities with their spouse, sat and watched TV all day and ignored their spouse. 

In many of the threads where we see a wife lose interest in sex we see a lot of comments telling the husband to work on making himself more attractive, being more assertive etc. Do those dots not connect. I'm not saying I would ever tell a BS it's your fault, but there are situations where a WS does have a spouse who stopped protecting their marriage. I feel like we do a disservice when we are not reminding each other to keep the fire alive and growing in our marriages and to keep our spouses "reveling in their sexuality". 

The choice to cheat is on the cheater 100%, but a spouse who allows their sexual attractiveness to suffer a significant decline is making a choice as well.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

UAArchangel said:


> The Red Pill teaches that women in Western society have gone in full with their hypergamic tendencies of wanting to have sex with only the best men they can get and they will only come down in their standards when they want a stable man to marry or they have aged out. Consequently, those men who cannot meet the standard will not be able to date them and will only be considered when a woman's standards has to come down because she is older or she wants stability over sexual excitement.


Not all women. Just a slice of women that the RP community calls “modern women.” As opposed to “traditional women.” I don’t like either term. The first term sounds like you are talking about all women from the modern era. And most of the “traditional women” are not SAHMs but have careers and often degrees. But I don’t get to decide their terminology.




> So basically, if you're not that man who can excite women sexually, you are considered a lesser man who is getting left-overs as far as relationships go.


I think they’d say to only date and not marry, or know your value and date younger, submissive women.



> Think of it as being told in a job interview that you were the 150th resume in consideration and that was a deliberate decision on part of the company to choose you as 150th, because they finally ran out of people to consider. How excited would you be for that job, knowing that you were on the bottom and the company kept you on the bottom as long as there was somebody else they could consider? I don't think you'd find the job all that appealable.


I think it’s more that the “party girls” you speak of (a small percentage of women) know that they will need to marry a nice, boring guy by age 30. So they avoid dating him until the last minute, when her youth is gone and her beauty faded (having given her best years and best sex to bad boys in her teens and twenties), and suddenly they feign interest in nice, boring Poindexter from the IT department. He’s happy that a pretty girl is suddenly interested in him (now that he’s making good money). She’s “had her fun” and resdy to settle down. The bad boys got the fun, and he gets crying babies and no sex. The RP community is helping those guys become aware that they are being used and manipulated.

It also reminds me of a state house member (whose campaign I worked for) who was running for a state senate seat in a special election. The primary was believed to be competitive but the general election would be a cakewalk. After my candidate won the primary, a bunch of people called in to give her money. “We were with you all the way,” she joked. She wasn’t stupid; they were playing a game.

Part of it is waiting at the finish line for guys nearing 30 and trying to pick the winner. If she wasn’t there for him during his come-up, she shouldn’t get the benefits of his success.

But it’s worse than that. It knowing she can spend the rest of her life with Poindexter starting in her 20s or starting around 30-35. She is so turned off and repulsed by Poindexter that she will push her fertility window to the limit, risking infertility to limit the amount of time she will have to spend as his wife. (And partying as he toils alone for a decade becoming financially stable and successful.) It’s not so much that he’s he’s her Plan Z but that he’s her inevitable husband and she knows it and hates it.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

CraigBesuden said:


> Not all women. Just a slice of women that the RP community calls “modern women.” As opposed to “traditional women.” I don’t like either term. The first term sounds like you are talking about all women from the modern era. And most of the “traditional women” are not SAHMs but have careers and often degrees. But I don’t get to decide their terminology.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow. That is.... DARK.
With this outlook on live and women in general you will Always secondguess your SO. And she stands no chance.
This is some serious dark ****, Buddy.
And I don't believe truth in it when so generally brushed.
But, anyway, boah.... That is a pulldown.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

QuietRiot said:


> I think that in your own relationship, maybe that was the case. That doesn’t mean that most relationships have husbands stifling their sexuality, and I don’t think any of the above has to do with cheating females doing more things for their AP if that’s even the case.
> 
> So my answer to your question is yeah, some men do that, some women do that, some people do stifle their partner not just in sex but many things.
> 
> ...


You horny dolphin you!! Good God! I'm never going to look at a dolphin again and not think "horny!" LoL!😂


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

A passing knowledge of the red pill stuff can be a good thing but that deep absolute belief to the point it saturates your outlook is really unhealthy. Application and absolute are two very different things.

Monogamy does actually exist as hard as it is for some to believe.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> A passing knowledge of the red pill stuff can be a good thing but that deep absolute belief to the point it saturates your outlook is really unhealthy. Application and absolute are two very different things.
> 
> *Monogamy does actually exist as hard as it is for some to believe.*


My wife and I have found it quite easy to do.


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## umbluu (Jan 24, 2020)

---*LoriD1974*
I am sorry if I missed that in the preceding pages, but how exactly you define "husband stifling your sexuality"?
Did it involve occasional rejections of your initiations? Was he not supportive enough of some kind of self-expression of yours that was not directly about initiating, but if supported, would create more sexual atmosphere in the relationship? Something else?

In general, I believe husbands can stifle their wives sexuality in subtle or not so subtle ways, and also the other way around. I even believe that in some marriages both are happening at the same time, not either one or another. Some participants above probably mentioned why it may happen in various words. I like David' Schnarch's provocative answer to this question - people do not want to f**k with their support system (in all meanings of this word simultaneously). In other words, partners become too dependent on each other's validation, in somewhat unhealthy ways (details differ based on individual childhoods) and they cannot take risks within the relationship, sexually or otherwise. It requires certain level of development to be able to overcome that. Technically, I like some other recipe for overcoming it more than Schnarch's - check Richard Schwartz's "You are the one you have been waiting for". To me that advice is much easier to follow than Schnarch's own, to achieve what Schnarch would call transitioning from other-validated intimacy to self-validated one (and Schwartz has his own names for those).


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

umbluu said:


> ---*LoriD1974*
> I am sorry if I missed that in the preceding pages, but how exactly you define "husband stifling your sexuality"?
> Did it involve occasional rejections of your initiations? Was he not supportive enough of some kind of self-expression of yours that was not directly about initiating, but if supported, would create more sexual atmosphere in the relationship? Something else?
> 
> In general, I believe husbands can stifle their wives sexuality in subtle or not so subtle ways, and also the other way around. I even believe that in some marriages both are happening at the same time, not either one or another. Some participants above probably mentioned why it may happen in various words. I like David' Schnarch's provocative answer to this question - people do not want to f**k with their support system (in all meanings of this word simultaneously). In other words, partners become too dependent on each other's validation, in somewhat unhealthy ways (details differ based on individual childhoods) and they cannot take risks within the relationship, sexually or otherwise. It requires certain level of development to be able to overcome that. Technically, I like some other recipe for overcoming it more than Schnarch's - check Richard Schwartz's "You are the one you have been waiting for". To me that advice is much easier to follow than Schnarch's own, to achieve what Schnarch would call transitioning from other-validated intimacy to self-validated one (and Schwartz has his own names for those).


I think it comes down to the level of sexual attraction being high enough to overcome inhibitions. I think for a multitude of reasons the wife's sexual attraction to her husband has dropped below her inhibition threshold for a particular sex act or acts. The AP is new and risky and "naughty". It is all enough to overcome those inhibitions. I'm not sure that qualifies as the husband stifling her sexuality. I suppose it depends on what cause the attraction and desire level to drop. It could be the husband has done nothing to cause it, in which case that mean it is something that changed in the wife.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

You have to ask why the level of attraction has fallen and all you have to do in the UK is observe the amount of beer belly fat fks not all of course then their is the slobs in sweat pants and other I'll assorted clothing, little wonder some wives have lost any sexual interest in their partners.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Kput said:


> You have to ask why the level of attraction has fallen and all you have to do in the UK is observe the amount of beer belly fat fks not all of course then their is the slobs in sweat pants and other I'll assorted clothing, little wonder some wives have lost any sexual interest in their partners.


No doubt those things can factor in, but there are no shortage of stories where the AP is a major step down from the husband.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> This is an interesting topic but the way you are phrasing it is false in that you are laying the responsibility at the feet of the husbands.
> 
> I do believe some husbands absolutely can, and do, stifle their wives sexuality.
> 
> ...


Lmao 🤣...I just had to log in to thumbs up..

No further questions, your honor..


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## Lovingwife71 (Mar 28, 2018)

sleeping_sandman said:


> I know. But I don't understand each why people who was so themselves go against all they believe in and their own moral compass. Being so callous while simultanously Go against their own self. How many Red Flags, how many betrayal can you tolerate from yourself before your reflection in the mirror starts to stare back at you.
> I always imagine how those people stand there getting all dressed up while the betrayed is in the Same room and being Lied to in every possible way. Most of the time the cheater doesn't even Respekt the Most Safe space there should be in ones live. The marriage bed.
> I just don't get it. Maybe that is why my boss always sends me Up the roof or into the room while my colleagues try to counsel in the spouse. It is more offen than not, by the way that the spouse is nearby and equally devasted. That is why I don't understand.


I feel the same way. I say to my husband all the time, "I don't know how you could say to me, 'I'm going to pick up a part for the car (2 hrs away, giving him 4 hours with his [email protected]#- then he hits traffic of course) and walk out the door while I'm sitting there, KNOWING he's going to see her. Then come home after he F'd her and say, 'what's for dinner' and act like NOTHING happened." I just don't understand how someone can do that. But those of us who don't cheat can never understand that. I am with you. 

As for the OP, I think most men are pretty much willing to do ANYTHING sexually a woman wants to do. He may not have much experience, such as your husband who was 21 when you all got together, but I believe he would have been MORE THAN willing to learn. If you told him you wanted to role play being a prostitute and told him to pick you on the corner in thigh highs and a trench coat and he could "pay" you for whatever services he wanted, he would have been more than game to show you exactly what he wanted. So no, I don't believe a man stifles his wife's sexuality. My husband is a low down dirty dog, but he never stifled my sexuality. Quite the opposite actually.


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## Lovingwife71 (Mar 28, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> No doubt those things can factor in, but there are no shortage of stories where the AP is a major step down from the husband.


Or the AP is a MAJOR step down from the wife. I've read many articles and one statistic says that only 12% of spouses said their AP was as good looking or better looking than their spouse. Then you take into account education, job status and it probably goes down even more.


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## Lovingwife71 (Mar 28, 2018)

marko polo said:


> Always the feelings. You didn't actively hide your past but neither did you reveal it so the end result is that it remained _*hidden*_ from your husband.
> 
> Hard to remember. In a strange coincidence many people, especially those caught recently in an affair, also forget the details. Time doesn't seem to matter - 2 days ago or 20 years ago.


Yep you are so right. My husband couldn't remember the details of his affair either. Not until I filed for divorce. I told him if he couldn't be honest with me, I couldn't trust him to move forward. A lot of details suddenly started coming back. According to him, he wasn't proud of what he did so he blocked it out. But the more I questioned him about it and made him talk about it, the more he "remembered." And he also said he thought if he revealed certain details it would be over. I think that was more likely. LOL

Edited for grammar


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

BoSlander said:


> Unfortunately, this has also been my experience and the experience of all cheat-ees I know: wife withheld sex from the husband and completely flipped the script with the affair partner.
> 
> I had to get divorce papers served to my XW for her to come clean (no pun intended) on her escapades. Don't get me wrong, our sex life was decent, but she was just f-cking the brains out of her last AP. I asked her a couple of questions about her sexual encounters, knowing I had nothing to lose at that point, and what came out of my XW's mouth, let's just say... I wanted to go back home and take a bath in holly water.
> 
> I mean, she was literally, sexually, at this man's mercy with an abandonment I haven't even seen among crack addicts.


Unfortunately people take that as a slight on themselves and their attractiveness instead as a sign that they married a lunatic. Which is kind of the point to all of these stories, it's like this is how women think, instead of this is how lunatic women think. So you dated a women who had crazier sex with someone else, well she also cheated so you picked a lemon. Consider the source. Just like a bad car, discard and move on, doesn't make you a bad driver or all cars bad. I DO get that is hard at first.

The way I see it is if both people are invested in having a fulfilling sex life assuming there isn't something wrong with them, where they have a relatively healthy and good marriage there is no reason why they can't have that. Far too often men settle for women who are not invested, now some of that may be that they married young. Still there is this idea one that OP and some other women have that the sexual relationship is all the guys job. Men need to be taught to look out for that and STAY AWAY from women who think this way. You want a women who is just as invested as you are, this is not too much to ask. There are plenty of women who are just as into and invested in it as you are. Just like women are taught to demand orgasm men should be taught to demand investment. Don't settle.


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## I Know (Dec 14, 2011)

Lovingwife71 said:


> I feel the same way. I say to my husband all the time, "I don't know how you could say to me, 'I'm going to pick up a part for the car (2 hrs away, giving him 4 hours with his [email protected]#- then he hits traffic of course) and walk out the door while I'm sitting there, KNOWING he's going to see her. Then come home after he F'd her and say, 'what's for dinner' and act like NOTHING happened." I just don't understand how someone can do that. But those of us who don't cheat can never understand that. I am with you.
> 
> As for the OP, I think most men are pretty much willing to do ANYTHING sexually a woman wants to do. He may not have much experience, such as your husband who was 21 when you all got together, but I believe he would have been MORE THAN willing to learn. If you told him you wanted to role play being a prostitute and told him to pick you on the corner in thigh highs and a trench coat and he could "pay" you for whatever services he wanted, he would have been more than game to show you exactly what he wanted. So no, I don't believe a man stifles his wife's sexuality. My husband is a low down dirty dog, but he never stifled my sexuality. Quite the opposite actually.


Yes exactly. Most men will do anything that the wife allows. But those husbands usually get subtle or not so subtle negative feedback when he wants to do things like anal, or various forms of oral or any other kinkier acts. 

In other words it is usually the wife that is restricting the husband's sexuality. And yes, I am aware that this is not always the case. Yes there are wives who are dying to be more kinky but the vanilla husband isn't interested. Generally the men are more open and the women are more restricted.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

sleeping_sandman said:


> Can some help the stupid european out here?What the actual **** you are talking about? Are you intend on citing the rest of the greek alphabet, too?


Sure, I will explain.

I cited to Scientific American and the Wall Street Journal about scientific studies supporting the belief that humans (like other animals) have evolved to include cheating as a mating strategy.

Then a woman, so_sweet, used the term “alpha” (meaning an alpha male).

Another poster wanted to disparage the information that I had posted. Anything that portrays women as anything other than innocent victims of men (“men are tr—-“) is unacceptable. For that reason, Red Pill, the men’s rights movement, and the “manosphere” in general are called “misogynistic” by our misandrist, gynocentric culture.

People in the Manosphere, including Red Pill, will often talk about “nice guys” versus “bad boys,” and “alpha males” versus “beta males.” (Taken literally, none of these terms accurately describe what the Manosphere is trying to convey. )

So, although it was a woman (So_Sweet) who used the term “alpha” in praise of her husband, her post was coopted to attack me. In a nutshell:

1) Red Pill is wrong;
2) Craig used the word “alpha”;
3) Therefore, what Craig posted is Red Pill; and 
4) Therefore, what Craig said is wrong.

That chain of logic received 5 likes.

You are probably confused because you noticed that it was So_Sweet who said the word “alpha” and that she used it in an innocent, noncontroversial way. If you attribute her use of the word to me, I think it will make sense now.

(The opposition to the Manosphere is primarily on the political left and Women’s Studies departments. So, if somebody responds to the “Red Pill” attack by calling the attacker as “Woke” (or MSNBC groupie or whatever) and it seems totally out of context, that’s what is behind it.)


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> The issue of porn is kind of a somewhat related side note.
> 
> Actual studies into women's response to porn indicates that women respond to ALL forms of porn to a higher degree than men.
> 
> ...


Is it more fluid or is it that they respond to what the porn represents and not so much the visual aspect of whats on the screen, so the visual aspect doesn't matter as much. Like the porn is a trigger but the real porn is in their mind.

My experience tells me women's sexual nature isn't as rote as ours is as men. In the sense that with men it can totally be procedural, doesn't have to be, but can be.

1. Willing women (or guy if they are gay) or Media of women, usual visual which accounts for our reaction to porn but can also be physical.
2. Perform physical functions
3. Get off.

We are pretty simple.

Women don't seem to work like that at all, at least in my experience. Lots of women talk about feeling self conscience, or distracted by life, feeling unattractive, angry or hurt. Then the mechanical aspects of sex is also not as simple for women as it is for men.


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## Alphamale (8 mo ago)

LoriD1974 said:


> Reading through many of the post on the "Coping with Infidelity" section, a common theme is that the BH are devastated that their wives during the affairs will do, act or engage in sexual scenarios they won't engage in within their marriage. I can (ashamedly) agree that during my affair I was often much more willing with my AP to engage in spontaneous, explicit sexual encounters than with my husband. I don't feel I did anything that in the right setting/atmosphere I would not do with my Husband, just that he never asked for, seemed to desire or assume I'd want to do those things with him. My AP most definitely allowed me to revel in my sexuality. So I'm wondering if anyone feels that husbands may stifle their wives sexuality within their marriage by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings.



You are wild in the bedroom with your affair partner because you are attracted to him and you will do anything to please him in order to keep him. You view your husband as the nice guy that you settled for and subconsciously believe he should be happy just to be getting sex at all. 

If your bad boy affair partner would actually commit to you and you came to believe that you had him on the hook you would doubtless revert to plain vanilla sex with him. Of course you know that Chad or Tyrone would be out the door in a heartbeat so you continue to be sexually adventurous with your AP to keep him coming back. Your husband on the other hand will be there regardless so you have absolutely no incentive to please him.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Still there is this idea one that OP and some other women have that the sexual relationship is all the guys job. Men need to be taught to look out for that and STAY AWAY from women who think this way. You want a women who is just as invested as you are, this is not too much to ask. There are plenty of women who are just as into and invested in it as you are. Just like women are taught to demand orgasm men should be taught to demand investment. Don't settle.


This part. Women and girls are raped and molested mostly by men. An astounding number of girls and women are sexually assaulted by men every day. Trafficked, beat, imprisoned and raped.
Men: you have daughters, sisters and mothers. All of them are all of us.
In all my years as a woman, I have never had a woman friend say that they were taught to demand an orgasm.
I'll tell you this, all of my woman friends love their bf/spouse dearly but orgasms or else isn't a thing.

Statistics 

If a man can't figure out how this ties into the OP....the deal is that women need tenderness, protection. Do that.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

harperlee said:


> This part. Women and girls are raped and molested mostly by men. An astounding number of girls and women are sexually assaulted by men every day. Trafficked, beat, imprisoned and raped.
> Men: you have daughters, sisters and mothers. All of them are all of us.
> In all my years as a woman, I have never had a woman friend say that they were taught to demand an orgasm.
> I'll tell you this, all of my woman friends love their bf/spouse dearly but orgasms or else isn't a thing.
> ...











Here's What Happens When Women Demand Orgasms


Own your pleasure. You're not a **** for wanting to come. You're not greedy for wanting to come as much as possible. You're a human. Human's seek pleasure. Soak it in, as much as you can get.




www.huffpost.com













How My Dating Life Changed When I Started Demanding I Orgasm Every Time With Every Partner


In the summer of 2015, I came across an interview with Nicki Minaj in Cosmo. In it she said, and I quote, “I demand that I climax. I think women should demand that.” I remember thinking how that was fantastic, but also thinking such a demand wasn’t…




www.bustle.com













Nicki Minaj Thinks Women Should "Demand" More Orgasms in Bed


Nicki Minaj told Cosmopolitan that she demands that she climaxes in bed, and she thinks other women should do the same.




www.vh1.com





I didn't even say that's wrong, frankly I would see that as a good sigh. I just said a man has every right to demand that a women be engaged in their (meaning the couples) sexual life and not expect him to "bring" it out of her.

Whatever your problem with men doesn't mean my post had anything to do with that and it had nothing to do with rape. Go read my advice to men on how they should think about their sex life with their wives.


----------



## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

CraigBesuden said:


> Sure, I will explain.
> 
> I cited to Scientific American and the Wall Street Journal about scientific studies supporting the belief that humans (like other animals) have evolved to include cheating as a mating strategy.
> 
> ...


Your full post above.
As for all of this:


CraigBesuden said:


> Then a woman, so_sweet, used the term “alpha” (meaning an alpha male).





CraigBesuden said:


> So, although it was a woman (So_Sweet) who used the term “alpha” in praise of her husband, her post was coopted to attack me. In a nutshell:
> 
> 1) Red Pill is wrong;
> 2) Craig used the word “alpha”;
> ...





CraigBesuden said:


> You are probably confused because you noticed that it was So_Sweet who said the word “alpha” and that she used it in an innocent, noncontroversial way. If you attribute her use of the word to me, I think it will make sense now.


I'd explain it to you but I don't have any crayons.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Here's What Happens When Women Demand Orgasms
> 
> 
> Own your pleasure. You're not a **** for wanting to come. You're not greedy for wanting to come as much as possible. You're a human. Human's seek pleasure. Soak it in, as much as you can get.
> ...


So you quote 'fluff' from the internet to back you up, seriously?
First piece of advice to men is to get off the internet. I can not stress this enough, it is killing literally everything, not the less, women's attraction to men. For the love of everything that is natural in the world, fix a deck, shovel snow or make sure there isn't lead in the drinking water.

I do have a problem with men. My whole life I have seen women twisting themselves into pretzels to shape themselves into what men want or 'need' them to be. I've known so many women who have lost themselves and their careers to please the men in their marriages or workplace.

Posters have come knives out for the OP for having an affair and asking if there may be a correlation with discontent at home.
No bother mentioning how many men have affairs how statistically, men haven't kept their pants up for centuries. 
Hypocrisy has a place, not a good one.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

harperlee said:


> This part. Women and girls are raped and molested mostly by men. An astounding number of girls and women are sexually assaulted by men every day. Trafficked, beat, imprisoned and raped.


Perhaps you are unaware that those statistics intentionally exclude "forced to penetrate" from the rape statistics? (For example, a woman intentionally gets a man drunk and performs sexual acts on him, or a man wakes up in the morning to find that a woman who lives down the hallway is riding bareback on his erection.) If you include "forced to penetrate" as rape, then men are raped by women roughly in the same numbers are women are raped by men:

1. Writing in _Time_, Cathy Young notices something interesting in the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention figures on rape: Women rape a lot more than people think..

*If the CDC figures are to be taken at face value, then we must also conclude that, far from being a product of patriarchal violence against women, " rape culture " is a two-way street, with plenty of female perpetrators and male victims.*

How could that be? After all, very few men in the CDC study were classified as victims of rape: 1.7% in their lifetime, and too few for a reliable estimate in the past year. But these numbers refer only to men who have been forced into anal sex or made to perform oral sex on another male. *Nearly 7% of men, however, reported that at some point in their lives, they were "made to penetrate" another person — usually in reference to vaginal intercourse, receiving oral sex, or performing oral sex on a woman. This was not classified as rape, but as "other sexual violence."*_ And now the real surprise: when asked about experiences _*in the last 12 months, men reported being "made to penetrate" — either by physical force or due to intoxication — at virtually the same rates as women reported rape*_ (both 1.1% in 2010, and 1.7% and 1.6% respectively in 2011)._
*In short, men are raped by women at nearly the same rate women are raped by men.*

A rape epidemic — by women? Column (usatoday.com)


2. "To study nonconsensual sex among the incarcerated, the authors draw on data collected by the Bureau of Justice Statistics under the Prison Rape Elimination Act. (Their paper focuses on surveys of previously incarcerated inmates in state prisons; Stemple told me that the patterns they related are similar to data collected from those held in a broad range of prisons and jails.) * Noting the high prevalence of 'sexual victimization committed by female staff members and female inmates,' the authors report that women are “much more likely to be abused” by other women inmates than by male staff.*"

How Often Do Women Rape Men? - The Atlantic

_I welcome your support in the fight to make our laws gender neutral. Not only by ensuring that "forced to penetrate" is treated as rape in the UK the way it is in the US, but also by making it a crime for women to engage in "stealthing" (having non-consensual sex by lying to a partner and claiming to be using birth control when, in fact, the person is not) by falsely claiming to be using female birth control (e.g., the Pill or IUDs) in the same way that it has been criminalized for men to do so with male birth control._


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

LoriD1974 said:


> So I'm wondering if anyone feels that husbands may stifle their wives sexuality within their marriage by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings.


Yes some men do that.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

CraigBesuden said:


> Perhaps you are unaware that those statistics intentionally exclude "forced to penetrate" from the rape statistics? (For example, a woman intentionally gets a man drunk and performs sexual acts on him, or a man wakes up in the morning to find that a woman who lives down the hallway is riding bareback on his erection.) If you include "forced to penetrate" as rape, then men are raped by women roughly in the same numbers are women are raped by men:
> 
> 1. Writing in _Time_, Cathy Young notices something interesting in the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention figures on rape: Women rape a lot more than people think..
> 
> ...


Here we have it Women. The whataboutme. 
At least you quoted reputable sources.
No act of non consent is ok; for men or women. This includes 'relationships and marriage.'

By the way, most oopsie pregnancies would be prevented by condoms.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

harperlee said:


> So you quote 'fluff' from the internet to back you up, seriously?
> First piece of advice to men is to get off the internet. I can not stress this enough, it is killing literally everything, not the less, women's attraction to men. For the love of everything that is natural in the world, fix a deck, shovel snow or make sure there isn't lead in the drinking water.
> 
> I do have a problem with men. My whole life I have seen women twisting themselves into pretzels to shape themselves into what men want or 'need' them to be. I've known so many women who have lost themselves and their careers to please the men in their marriages or workplace.
> ...


OK, you know a lot more about what zeitgeist is then the internet. Got it.

Whatever demons you are struggling with, they go a lot deeper then my post.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

UAArchangel said:


> I don't think she's meaning to blame the husband for a wife's infidelity. She is just saying that most women would not be tempted to wander away to get their deep needs of attention and care met by somebody else if her husband made an effort to give her time and attention. An unattentive husband creates a vacuum in the wife and nature abhors a vacuum.


Uh...by my reading, that's blaming the husband.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

Wolfman1968 said:


> Uh...by my reading, that's blaming the husband.


While there is no question that the unfaithful spouse is at fault for having an affair or ONS, in my view, when one spouse is not making a conscience effort to love the other spouse they are leaving the other spouse vulnerable to being tempted to being unfaithful. I think that is all she was trying to say.

That is not to say that, if you have made reasonable efforts to be a loving spouse that you are somehow responsible for the choices of another. You are only responsible for your choices in the end.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

LoriD1974 said:


> Reading through many of the post on the "Coping with Infidelity" section, a common theme is that the BH are devastated that their wives during the affairs will do, act or engage in sexual scenarios they won't engage in within their marriage. I can (ashamedly) agree that during my affair I was often much more willing with my AP to engage in spontaneous, explicit sexual encounters than with my husband. I don't feel I did anything that in the right setting/atmosphere I would not do with my Husband, just that he never asked for, seemed to desire or assume I'd want to do those things with him. My AP most definitely allowed me to revel in my sexuality. So I'm wondering if anyone feels that husbands may stifle their wives sexuality within their marriage by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings.


My answer to your question would be that I think that it may be true at times that husbands stifle their wives' sexuality, in most cases I think it is much more likely to be the other way around: that wives have previously indicated what the limits are, and their husbands abide by it. On the other hand, when the Affair Partner makes it clear the relationship is primarily about sex, then the cheating wife is more likely to break through boundaries she held fast with her husband.

We see so many threads here on TAM where the betrayed husband states that his wife "always said that xxxx sexual act was gross/demeaning/dirty...". In other words, the wife has drawn a line in a sand with her husband, which he abides by. There is no line even mentioned with the AP. It make some sense; the cheating wife is already a "rules breaker" by violating her vows, so it isn't much of a stretch to break her rules of her "off limits" sex acts.

My own belief it is more common that the limits stifling the woman's sexuality are set by the wife, not by the husband. And I think it's more likely that the reason the wife is willing to break the limits is that she he more sexually attracted to the AP than her husband. Again, that makes sense. If the affair is only about sex, then the AP has to hit the high marks in sexual attractiveness for the cheating wife in order to make the affair worthwhile for her, because that's the only thing this is about. On the other hand, her marriage is about many things, and a wife might accept a somewhat lower sexual attractiveness in exchange for other qualities, such as reliability, good provider, supportive, etc., that make the whole marriage package worthwhile for her.

So, my take is that the cheating wife's sexuality seems "stifled" by the husband compared to the AP primarily because she is less attracted to him sexually in the first place.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

sokillme said:


> OK, you know a lot more about what zeitgeist is then the internet. Got it.
> 
> Whatever demons you are struggling with, they go a lot deeper then my post.


Deep down people know; the internet is destroying us.
As far as demons, we all have them. I am not ashamed that I am human, as yourself. So silly.
We are so simple in our ways; we are so predictable and so often, not in a good way.

What difference does it make in a relationship/marriage forum to say a person feels this way or that? Isn't this the purpose of this forum?
So many posters rush in to beat the OP about cheating instead of addressing the actual question.
It does answer the question though.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

UAArchangel said:


> While there is no question that the unfaithful spouse is at fault for having an affair or ONS, in my view, when one spouse is not making a conscience effort to love the other spouse they are leaving the other spouse vulnerable to being tempted to being unfaithful. I think that is all she was trying to say.
> 
> That is not to say that, if you have made reasonable efforts to be a loving spouse that you are somehow responsible for the choices of another. You are only responsible for your choices in the end.


Well, to avoid a thread jack, I'm not going to go in depth into the obvious fallacy of this line of thinking.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

My first husband cheated on me and I was devastated. We were in a sexless marriage of my own making. I should’ve seen it coming but I didn’t. We weren’t sexless because I didn’t like sex or I was a prude that didn’t want to do certain acts. Not because he let himself go. It was sexless because I treated sex as transactional, a reward system. He was failing me as a husband and father (majorly, he would later admit) so I took away his reward. I didn’t do it consciously, but I did it. I actually wondered if something was wrong with me during that time because I didn’t want sex. After a period of years of me withholding he had an affair. My reaction to his affair was hysterical bonding. When the HB phase was over I realized I DID like sex, but I didn’t like him. Because he wasn't a “nice guy”.

I had stifled my own sexuality by making it conditional. Never again.


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## LoriD1974 (2 mo ago)

We had been married for 10 years when my transgression occurred. I of course take full responsibility for my choice to stray from my marriage, I've never blamed my husband. I did mention on an earlier post that the "husbands stifling the wife's sexuality" question was one that occurred to me after my affair not before. 

During my marriage pre-affair I was very vocal about what I felt I needed to be content in regards to sex and would say that I was open to most things in the bedroom. I was definitely not shy, timid, frigid and I sure as hell didn't deny or withhold from him experiences if he ever suggested any, the thing was he was just not forthcoming with suggestions, ideas, desires etc so our sex life stayed rather vanilla. On occasion I would try to incorporate new things into our sex life but he would then rarely or never ask nor suggest doing it again which probably left me wondering whether he actually enjoyed it. Basically i feel he thought of me as a mother, not as a sexual being with needs and desires of my own, I think he found it hard to switch from being the loving, caring, gentle husband into someone that wanted to ravish his wife. I don't feel that I ever thought "my husband is vanilla in bed so I'll find myself a young alpha stud that'll do really naughty things to me" if I did it was definitely in my subconscious. 



Wolfman1968 said:


> We see so many threads here on TAM where the betrayed husband states that his wife "always said that xxxx sexual act was gross/demeaning/dirty...". In other words, the wife has drawn a line in a sand with her husband, which he abides by. There is no line even mentioned with the AP. It make some sense; the cheating wife is already a "rules breaker" by violating her vows, so it isn't much of a stretch to break her rules of her "off limits" sex acts.


This could of course be the case for some but for me the thing was that everything sexual I did with my AP I had at one point in time done with my husband. The difference was that my AP "expressed" a deep desire and thirst for the sexual experiences and for me as a sexual woman in a way that my up to that point husband rarely did. He may well have had those feelings without openly expressing it and in turn I felt discontent and sadness for many years. My AP overall demeanor in regards to sex and the way he pursued me made it easy for me to enjoy a higher state of sexual abandon. A state of sexual abandon that I had been yearning to have in my marriage, I feel my husband had stifled my sexuality to some extent and in turn so did I.

Thank you for the many comments on this post it has been very insightful.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

so_sweet said:


> Your full post above.
> As for all of this:
> 
> 
> ...


That’s the first time I see you be a smart-a$$.
I like it 😜


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

harperlee said:


> So many posters rush in to beat the OP about cheating instead of addressing the actual question.


It’s not just this thread. There is a strong tendency in these parts to psychoanalyze and respond to the “real issue” rather than the question or point raised.

Almost like a cheater caught sending texts, pics and videos of the affair and responding that the BS is insecure and invaded the cheater’s privacy by looking at the cheater’s phone.

The OP has clearly and repeatedly refuted the claim that she’s attempting to justify her actions.

Whether some husbands stifle their wives’ sexuality seems to me to be a fair question. Even if so, it doesn’t justify cheating. There can be reasons and explanations for cheating but there are no excuses.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

LoriD1974 said:


> Basically i feel he thought of me as a mother, not as a sexual being with needs and desires of my own, I think he found it hard to switch from being the loving, caring, gentle husband into someone that wanted to ravish his wife.


I suspect this is common. Just as it’s hard for most women to be a saint in public and a vixen in the bedroom (Madonna/wh—- complex), it can be hard for a man to be a reserved gentleman in public and a stud in the bedroom.

Putting on a show of desire, energy, and ravaging a woman — starting with foreplay (and by foreplay I don’t mean oral sex) — isn’t something that is often taught to men. The moment that a woman say ls that men should know that women like to be ravaged, the conversation goes into the other R word and whether women like that…. It’s never clearly explained what the woman is talking about.

In porn, you see the women actresses enthusiastically performing oral, worshipping his member, dirty talking like it’s the best tasting thing ever, putting on an incredible show but you never see the men actors doing the same with cunnilingus. 

Vanilla is the most popular flavor in the world. The problem is when the two people want different things. 



> This could of course be the case for some but for me the thing was that everything sexual I did with my AP I had at one point in time done with my husband. The difference was that my AP "expressed" a deep desire and thirst for the sexual experiences and for me as a sexual woman in a way that my up to that point husband rarely did… My AP overall demeanor in regards to sex and the way he pursued me made it easy for me to enjoy a higher state of sexual abandon. A state of sexual abandon that I had been yearning to have in my marriage, I feel my husband had stifled my sexuality to some extent and in turn so did I.


Nobody can have it all. Your husband probably doesn’t even understand what he’s doing wrong. Just because you ask for it doesn’t mean he understands the significance and what’s behind it. He never had any (significant) sexual experience before you and that cuts both ways. It might also not be in his nature and require a herculean effort on his part to become that kind of guy in the bedroom.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

harperlee said:


> I do have a problem with men.


No one could tell.😋

Anyway you jacked the hell out of this thread by jumping from consensual cheating to rape and the logic you had to torture to justify your jacking has probably been dead for some time now.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

LoriD1974 said:


> We had been married for 10 years when my transgression occurred. I of course take full responsibility for my choice to stray from my marriage, I've never blamed my husband. I did mention on an earlier post that the "husbands stifling the wife's sexuality" question was one that occurred to me after my affair not before.
> 
> During my marriage pre-affair I was very vocal about what I felt I needed to be content in regards to sex and would say that I was open to most things in the bedroom. I was definitely not shy, timid, frigid and I sure as hell didn't deny or withhold from him experiences if he ever suggested any, the thing was he was just not forthcoming with suggestions, ideas, desires etc so our sex life stayed rather vanilla. On occasion I would try to incorporate new things into our sex life but he would then rarely or never ask nor suggest doing it again which probably left me wondering whether he actually enjoyed it. Basically i feel he thought of me as a mother, not as a sexual being with needs and desires of my own, I think he found it hard to switch from being the loving, caring, gentle husband into someone that wanted to ravish his wife. I don't feel that I ever thought "my husband is vanilla in bed so I'll find myself a young alpha stud that'll do really naughty things to me" if I did it was definitely in my subconscious.
> 
> ...


And? Did your Affair changed anything for you? 
Or was ist just the ultimate hurt for your Husband?
Because I still think you are reasoning to yourself. I just can't shake this feeling.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Hi Lori, I can see exactly where you are coming from. Mismatched desires can destroy a relationship and I on occasion considered an affair when our desires diverged following childbirth.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Does your husband know about your affair?


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

I feel so opposite of your experience. I much prefer to work with my own, main man than to start over with some other guy. Every PERSON, regardless of orientation - male, female, gay, straight, trans - any of these - every person has their own sexuality.

For me, I'm keenly aware of details that are either turn ons or turn offs. My husband knows these details...understands that sexuality isn't a static thing - that it changes over time - and knows me. FOR ME, I am best with the person who I know is discreet and cares about me, isn't going to hurt me or spring something on me that is a non-starter.

I just don't want to have to deal with a new partner where we are going to have to train each other. Don't read this as prude or some conservative thing I'm trying to push off on other people. I had my experiences out in the single world - and I swear I could write a 5 season comedy series of my own "Sex in the City" - what looked like good potentials turned out more often than not to be "er, whaaat?"

I am not going to judge someone having an affair. Life isn't perfect but I will be glad to attend the award ceremony for the perfect person who is going to cast the first stone. Life is, instead, a journey that is intended to be experienced, not rewarded by some future after-life seat beside a golden throne. And many people are the type who have to experience something before they fully realize the implications and consequences of something like an affair.

I have always said, about the lover experience that: "When the sex is over, you still have to deal with the PERSON." - meaning, thinking things all the way through to afterwards and the awkwardness of stepping away from what just happened.

I have told my husband many times that I "spent that nickel" of having other sexual experiences when I was single. It's not all it appears - a lot of it is very awkward, and, for me, often strange - because every person has their own little quirks and hangups. I have my own hangups to deal with - and would rather work these out with a partner I have gotten to know and trust. That's just me, though. I haven't had a lot of conversation with other people who feel differently.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

harperlee said:


> So you quote 'fluff' from the internet to back you up, seriously?
> First piece of advice to men is to get off the internet. I can not stress this enough, it is killing literally everything, not the less, women's attraction to men. For the love of everything that is natural in the world, fix a deck, shovel snow or make sure there isn't lead in the drinking water.
> 
> I do have a problem with men. My whole life I have seen women twisting themselves into pretzels to shape themselves into what men want or 'need' them to be. I've known so many women who have lost themselves and their careers to please the men in their marriages or workplace.
> ...


Why do men take all the blame for women shaping themselves into what their husband wants? The have free will, don't they?

The OP didn't ask if their was a correlation between discontent and her having an affair. She was probing for a reason to explain why she was an uninhibited sexual animal with her AP, but not her husband. There was zero reason to mention men having affairs in her post, so why bring it up here? It was all about husbands sexually stifling their cheating wives.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

LoriD1974 said:


> We had been married for 10 years when my transgression occurred. I of course take full responsibility for my choice to stray from my marriage, I've never blamed my husband. I did mention on an earlier post that the "husbands stifling the wife's sexuality" question was one that occurred to me after my affair not before.
> 
> During my marriage pre-affair I was very vocal about what I felt I needed to be content in regards to sex and would say that I was open to most things in the bedroom. I was definitely not shy, timid, frigid and I sure as hell didn't deny or withhold from him experiences if he ever suggested any, the thing was he was just not forthcoming with suggestions, ideas, desires etc so our sex life stayed rather vanilla. On occasion I would try to incorporate new things into our sex life but he would then rarely or never ask nor suggest doing it again which probably left me wondering whether he actually enjoyed it. Basically i feel he thought of me as a mother, not as a sexual being with needs and desires of my own, I think he found it hard to switch from being the loving, caring, gentle husband into someone that wanted to ravish his wife. I don't feel that I ever thought "my husband is vanilla in bed so I'll find myself a young alpha stud that'll do really naughty things to me" if I did it was definitely in my subconscious.
> 
> ...


Your husband has a severe disadvantage compared to your AP. Your husband has to play to role of much more than just your sexual partner. He has to spread his time and energy across the many roles he has in the marriage and family. Your AP only focuses on one thing, sexual satisfaction. He comes in, screws you with abandon then leaves. I don't see this as your husband stifling your sexuality. What I see is your inability to communicate effectively with him and you choosing the easier/lazier path of not completely addressing the issue. It could be that it would never get corrected and you may have to decide to leave the marriage because you just aren't compatible. There is a very high likelihood that if you married your AP you would end up back to vanilla sex once he had to settle into all those roles your husband was dealing with. 

You say it yourself. You were yearning for sexual abandon in your marriage, but you chose the easy path of getting that sexual abandon from your AP. That was your choice, not your husband stifling you. Some of that sexual abandon is thanks to the "naughty" factor involved in an affair. It is wrong so it makes it more exciting and hot, which lowers inhibitions and raises that sexual abandon feeling. How can a husband compete with that? Again, that isn't him stifling your sexuality. That is you choosing the easy path rather than working with the man you promised to be faithful too.


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## Landofblue (May 28, 2019)

Have you now communicated to your husband what your true sexual desires are?

Like others have said here, while there’s no one answer, in general husbands tend to lean toward what they see as respectful interactions with their partners. Without explicit guidance from their wives, the want to make their spouses feel safe, because they love them.

APs have no such love and therefore can easily lean toward, even in to, disrespect. It actually heightens the danger. Their only after fulfillment of their own physical desires. What they are not getting from their own legitimate partners. If their illicit other also achieves fulfillment in the same way, great, but it’s not their primary concern like it is for someone like your betrayed husband.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

Landofblue said:


> Have you now communicated to your husband what your true sexual desires are?
> 
> Like others have said here, while there’s no one answer, in general husbands tend to lean toward what they see as respectful interactions with their partners. Without explicit guidance from their wives, the want to make their spouses feel safe, because they love them.
> 
> APs have no such love and therefore can easily lean toward, even in to, disrespect. It actually heightens the danger. Their only after fulfillment of their own physical desires. What they are not getting from their own legitimate partners. If their illicit other also achieves fulfillment in the same way, great, but it’s not their primary concern like it is for someone like your betrayed husband.


And I would take a Bet that you will never get an answer from OP.
Simply because it would mean, she has to admit that her my-husband-cant-fullfil-me act is just that.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

What people assume that an affair is only for sex? It can be about sex, it can be about attraction, it can be about an emotional connection. The fact is it is something a woman gets from AP that she does not get from her husband. If she is not attracted to her husband she will be looking for more attractive partner. I am not saying it is right but it is basic biology.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Correct, sometimes is is something as simple as attention, husband takes wife for granted such as he would rather be watching sports than discussing his wife's day, even worse if she has been stuck at home with young kids. 

Affairs happen for mostly simple rather than complex reasons.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

romantic_dreamer said:


> What people assume that an affair is only for sex? It can be about sex, it can be about attraction, it can be about an emotional connection. The fact is it is something a woman gets from AP that she does not get from her husband. If she is not attracted to her husband she will be looking for more attractive partner. I am not saying it is right but it is basic biology.


You're right, an affair might not be just about sex.



LoriD1974 said:


> Pretty sure we both treated each other like shyt however as we were both in it for the sex only he actually was the confident "alpha" in regards to that. Maybe not in his daily life but that wasn't my concern at that time.


The OP said her affair was only for sex -- So that might be a reason if/why posts in this thread are talking about an affair being only for sex.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> What people assume that an affair is only for sex? It can be about sex, it can be about attraction, it can be about an emotional connection. The fact is it is something a woman gets from AP that she does not get from her husband. If she is not attracted to her husband she will be looking for more attractive partner. I am not saying it is right but it is basic biology.


Sometimes the affair is just because they can. It could be they are getting everything they need from their spouse and still decide they just want something new.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

romantic_dreamer said:


> What people assume that an affair is only for sex? It can be about sex, it can be about attraction, it can be about an emotional connection. The fact is it is something a woman gets from AP that she does not get from her husband. If she is not attracted to her husband she will be looking for more attractive partner. I am not saying it is right but it is basic biology.


Yep, and often times what she is getting from her AP is nothing more than the fact that he is not her husband.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

^^^^^^^^^

And there we have it.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

samyeagar said:


> Yep, and often times what she is getting from her AP is nothing more than the fact that he is not her husband.


If it were the case she wouldn't have an affair. No, she is getting something from AP she is not getting from her husband. OP said that AP partner was enthusiastic about sex while her husband was indifferent.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Sometimes the affair is just because they can. It could be they are getting everything they need from their spouse and still decide they just want something new.


I never had an affair or witnessed one but I doubt it is true. I think in most cases they are getting something from AP they cannot get from their husbands. It is either mind blowing sex, vanilla husband does not want or unable to provide or she is simply not attracted to her husband while attracted to AP. A marriage is a sexual romantic relationship based on mutual attraction and desire each other. If this does not exist in a marriage, one or both partners start looking for romance, attraction and desire elsewhere.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I never had an affair or witnessed one but I doubt it is true. I think in most cases they are getting something from AP they cannot get from their husbands. It is either mind blowing sex, vanilla husband does not want or unable to provide or she is simply not attracted to her husband while attracted to AP. A marriage is a sexual romantic relationship based on mutual attraction and desire each other. If this does not exist in a marriage, one or both partners start looking for romance, attraction and desire elsewhere.


All you have to do is look around here to find plenty of examples where they are getting everything they need and still cheat. Go look at the @VintageRetro thread. Wife had everything she could want from her husband yet still cheated with a small penis, less skilled man until she got an STD from from him. The POSOM knew all the right things to say to her and an obvious character flaw in her was revealed. At the time of the affair she believed her husband was just so bad, with some encouragement from a "friend". After the fact she realized she was totally delusional and that she had a near perfect marriage. Now she is divorced. That has been played out in various forms over and over again here. 

More often than not it is simply because they can and they want to. Once in progress they will make all kinds of claims about how bad their marriage is/was. Nearly every cheater will do some mental gymnastics to justify their actions, but they are almost always a load of made up BS.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> All you have to do is look around here to find plenty of examples where they are getting everything they need and still cheat. Go look at the @VintageRetro thread. Wife had everything she could want from her husband yet still cheated with a small penis, less skilled man until she got an STD from from him. The POSOM knew all the right things to say to her and an obvious character flaw in her was revealed. At the time of the affair she believed her husband was just so bad, with some encouragement from a "friend". After the fact she realized she was totally delusional and that she had a near perfect marriage. Now she is divorced. That has been played out in various forms over and over again here.
> 
> More often than not it is simply because they can and they want to. Once in progress they will make all kinds of claims about how bad their marriage is/was. Nearly every cheater will do some mental gymnastics to justify their actions, but they are almost always a load of made up BS.


There is only one thing any husband cannot provide to his wife is novelty. and some wives and some people in general simply cannot be in permanent monogamous relationship and they need new partner, either romantic or sexual or both. But I don't think every affair implies craving for novelty.

That's why it is critical in any marriage to keep the romance and sexual flame alive. Many people either do not have this from the beginning and marry for wrong reason or wrong partner or let it die. and they they are surprised why their wife or husband is looking elsewhere. If the OP's husband were receptive to her sexual desires and kinks, if he was enthusiastic about participating oir sharing with hem the affair might not have happened. 

I love my my wife. She has so many good qualities if I start listing them all it would be the longest post. But most important thing she posseses is my desire for her, romantic, sexual. If I look at her passing by I often have an erotic thought. It is super important to me she shares most of my sexual desires, not every one but most. If this attraction did not exist or if she would be complete vanilla, no matter how many good qualities she had, how good mother and wife she would be I would not be able to love her as much as I love her now. And who knows what I would be doing in this case if I met a woman who did share my sexual fantasies and desired me.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I never had an affair or witnessed one but I doubt it is true. I think in most cases they are getting something from AP they cannot get from their husbands. It is either mind blowing sex, vanilla husband does not want or unable to provide or she is simply not attracted to her husband while attracted to AP. A marriage is a sexual romantic relationship based on mutual attraction and desire each other. If this does not exist in a marriage, one or both partners start looking for romance, attraction and desire elsewhere.


You doubt it's true? It's so true that just reading that sentence in the reply.......well nevermind.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> What people assume that an affair is only for sex? It can be about sex, it can be about attraction, it can be about an emotional connection. The fact is it is something a woman gets from AP that she does not get from her husband. If she is not attracted to her husband she will be looking for more attractive partner. I am not saying it is right but it is basic biology.


There was a woman on here who wrote about her affair with an old friend of hers that her husband hated. She wrote that her husband was far superior sexually in every single way to her AP. Endowment, stature, looks, ability, technique, everything. She instigated the sex with her old friend in his car. Because her husband argued with her and didn't meet her "emotional needs". Sex had zero to do with it. She was willing to put up with so so sex to get back at her husband. For months until she got pregnant.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> All you have to do is look around here to find plenty of examples where they are getting everything they need and still cheat. Go look at the @VintageRetro thread. Wife had everything she could want from her husband yet still cheated with a small penis, less skilled man until she got an STD from from him. The POSOM knew all the right things to say to her and an obvious character flaw in her was revealed. At the time of the affair she believed her husband was just so bad, with some encouragement from a "friend". After the fact she realized she was totally delusional and that she had a near perfect marriage. Now she is divorced. That has been played out in various forms over and over again here.
> 
> More often than not it is simply because they can and they want to. Once in progress they will make all kinds of claims about how bad their marriage is/was. Nearly every cheater will do some mental gymnastics to justify their actions, but they are almost always a load of made up BS.


I’m glad to see a voice of reason in this thread. It was starting to look like cheating apologetics. 😌


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## Brigit24 (2 mo ago)

LoriD1974 said:


> So I'm wondering if anyone feels that husbands may stifle their wives sexuality within their marriage by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings.


Sex has become such a game in our culture. Sex is one part of marriage. Women who feel their husbands are trying to suppress their sexuality are fooling themselves. People cheat as a way to cope with reality. Cheating is always wrong. Marriage is difficult.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

"cheating apologetics" I have a good friend who is a cheater, I know his story and understand why he cheats this does not mean approval or even disapproval


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Kput said:


> "cheating apologetics" I have a good friend who is a cheater, I know his story and understand why he cheats this does not mean approval or even disapproval


Why doesn't he divorce? Does his wife suspect anything?


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Brigit24 said:


> Sex has become such a game in our culture. Sex is one part of marriage. Women who feel their husbands are trying to suppress their sexuality are fooling themselves. People cheat as a way to cope with reality. Cheating is always wrong. Marriage is difficult.


Sex is one part of the marriage but it is a critical part. If "Women who feel their husbands are trying to suppress their sexuality" the question is why they feel this way?

As I said some people cheat because they want novelty. but most of cheaters look for something they miss in their marriage. 

Cheating is always wrong. But marriage is not difficult.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

If you’re miserably unhappy, divorce. But that’s not the case a lot of the time. Many people who cheat aren’t miserably unhappy rather they just want the comforts of marriage and also the thrill of new relationships, new sex, etc…

I don’t think they set out to intentionally hurt anyone but, it is what it is.


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## Brigit24 (2 mo ago)

romantic_dreamer said:


> But marriage is not difficult.


If marriage wasn't difficult there would be no need for this forum. Marriage counselors. Books about marriage etc.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

*Deidre* said:


> Why doesn't he divorce? Does his wife suspect anything?


If she has turned the sex tap off, she would be a fool not to appreciate that he would likely seek sex elsewhere. So she probably ought to suspect something.

At the end of the day though, there’s nothing stopping sexual withholders from divorcing spouses they deny. So if it is over turning the sex tap off, yet she didn’t divorce him as well. Good for him in sharing sex elsewhere, I hope he enjoys himself.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Brigit24 said:


> If marriage wasn't difficult there would be no need for this forum. Marriage counselors. Books about marriage etc.


True loving happy healthy marriage is not difficult. i have been married or more than 25 year and never felt my marriage was difficult. Actually it is the easiest and the most natural thing I ever had. The life sometime is difficult but not a marriage.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> If you’re miserably unhappy, divorce. But that’s not the case a lot of the time. Many people who cheat aren’t miserably unhappy rather they just want the comforts of marriage and also the thrill of new relationships, new sex, etc…
> 
> I don’t think they set out to intentionally hurt anyone but, it is what it is.


I agree with. They may be married to a very good wife or husband, who formally has everything a picture perfect husband or wife should have. But a marriage is more than just a checklist of qualities. it ids desire, passion, romance that is impossible to force or buy. And if it is not there by some reason or long lost while everything else is perfect it is hard to end such marriage. That's why some people try to supplement this outside. I am not saying this is right, it is just life. A divorce is often very hard (as opposed to marriage) an sometimes even impoossible.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Personal said:


> If she has turned the sex tap off, she would be a fool not to appreciate that he would likely seek sex elsewhere. So she probably ought to suspect something.
> 
> At the end of the day though, there’s nothing stopping sexual withholders from divorcing spouses they deny. So if it is over turning the sex tap off, yet she didn’t divorce him as well. Good for him in sharing sex elsewhere, I hope he enjoys himself.


But …that’s always the story of the cheater and in some cases that may be true, but how many stories on here are posted by betrayed spouses who didn’t shut the tap off, and were literally gobsmacked when they learned their spouse was cheating? So, there’s always another side of every story.

I still don’t think people should cheat as a way to fill a void in their marriage. If they’re truly missing intimacy with their spouse, bringing another person into the situation won’t solve that.

However, I would imagine that if my husband wasn’t interested in having sex with me, it would eventually cause low self esteem etc…and other men paying attention to me, might be hard to ignore.

So, sexless marriages, whether it’s men or women who are suffering, probably cause a lot of other problems other than just the physical aspect of sex that is missing.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I agree with. They may be married to a very good wife or husband, who formally has everything a picture perfect husband or wife should have. But a marriage is more than just a checklist of qualities. it ids desire, passion, romance that is impossible to force or buy. And if it is not there by some reason or long lost while everything else is perfect it is hard to end such marriage. That's why some people try to supplement this outside. I am not saying this is right, it is just life. A divorce is often very hard (as opposed to marriage) an sometimes even impoossible.


That's the thing, there is no perfect marriage. And you're right, marriage isn't a check list of qualities that are designed to satisfy each person. 

To be honest, marriage is about sacrificing sometimes. Not ''what's in it for me?'' I feel if a couple looks out for each other, wants the best for each other, is each other's support system, etc...then, the marriage should be healthy. But, it'll still never be perfect. 😄


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Deidre, when my friend met his future wife she was a lapsed catholic, they married and had two children and all was well then her father died and she asked if her mum could move in for a few weeks, no problem at the time.

Over five years later she is still there, she gave up her council flat so he cannot get her out and as she is a pensioner he is stuck with her, his wife conspired in all of this.

His wife is now back in the Catholic fold and will not allow any contraception this has driven them even further apart.

His son plays junior League football on Sunday morning and his wife demands the boy attends Sunday school. The boy wants to play football so more arguments, during a row about this his m I l stuck her nose in and he lost it and told both his wife and m i l to, and I quote, "to shove their god _"_"*" up their ** *** which as you can guess caused a huge rift but he no longer cared.

He won't move out or divorce because he will not leave his kids and because he will still have to pay the bills and will be financially ruined.

So now he is a serial adulterer and is happy about it.

Is his wife aware, he thinks not and our job lends itself to cheating.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Kput said:


> Deidre, when my friend met his future wife she was a lapsed catholic, they married and had two children and all was well then her father died and she asked if her mum could move in for a few weeks, no problem at the time.
> 
> Over five years later she is still there, she gave up her council flat so he cannot get her out and as she is a pensioner he is stuck with her, his wife conspired in all of this.
> 
> ...


That sounds like a terrible way to live. For everyone involved, really.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

It may be a front but with me and our team of engineers he comes across as happy.

I have been on overnight call outs and have discussed things and he is pragmatic about it.


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## umbluu (Jan 24, 2020)

---But a marriage is more than just a checklist of qualities. 

This. ^^^. Many participants seem to focus on some imaginary checklists. Sexual checklists, non-sexual checklists... Often it is not about the checklists, it is about the attitude (in this case - towards partner's needs), same difference as between the "letter of the law" and the "spirit of the law". One may be "checking all the checkboxes" just formally.
(And then there is also a possibility that some people are just not aware enough, and believe they are checking all the necessary checkboxes while in fact they are not.)

none of the above should be misconstrued as me justifying affairs.


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## LoriD1974 (2 mo ago)

What I find amusing about this thread and others about infidelity is the myriad of contributors that have never strayed from their marriage nor had their partner cheat on them but are somehow authorities on the subject. They interrogate the adulterers and demand answers yet repudiate ALL responses, why bother asking? Even more intriguing is the use of obscene, sexualized, lecherous language when attempting to vilify the adulterers, suddenly they are into dirty talk?? Just an observation.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

Just curious @LoriD1974 why you refuse to answer the question whether your (ex?) husband is aware of your adultery?


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## LoriD1974 (2 mo ago)

gr8ful1 said:


> Just curious @LoriD1974 why you refuse to answer the question whether your (ex?) husband is aware of your adultery?


My husband is aware of the affair yes. Can you elaborate as to why you feel it's intrinsic to the original post?


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

I think lumping all husbands or wives together is disingenuous. Each individual is different. 

For this individual husband, I would love it if my wife would be a wild woman in our bed, or even the kitchen table. She has always been responsive, but I think there is a bit of the "good girls don't" thing going on. 

I am not into kinky stuff, but I do desire more than just responsiveness. I would love to walk in from work and have her jump on me, like a rabbit in heat. 

So no, not all men stifle their wives.


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## LoriD1974 (2 mo ago)

BootsAndJeans said:


> I think lumping all husbands or wives together is disingenuous. Each individual is different.
> 
> For this individual husband, I would love it if my wife would be a wild woman in our bed, or even the kitchen table. She has always been responsive, but I think there is a bit of the "good girls don't" thing going on.
> 
> ...


This! ❤

This is what I am alluding to. The idea that maybe what your wife wants in the absolute is to jump on you when you walk in from work like a rabbit on heat, she really might.

My OP was referring to just this dynamic of the wanting husband and the wife that “might” feel blocked in some way to be her sexually uninhabited self. Is it a look, the words or lack of them, is it the way you do or don’t act with her, is it body language or how you show her your desire. It could be a multitude of unintentional things but it could be something that’s stifling her. I totally understand that women need to own their sexual identity but everyone takes ques from people around them in everyday life, why would that not apply in the bedroom.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

LoriD1974 said:


> This! ❤
> 
> This is what I am alluding to. The idea that maybe what your wife wants in the absolute is to jump on you when you walk in from work like a rabbit on heat, she really might.
> 
> My OP was referring to just this dynamic of the wanting husband and the wife that “might” feel blocked in some way to be her sexually uninhabited self. Is it a look, the words or lack of them, is it the way you do or don’t act with her, is it body language or how you show her your desire. It could be a multitude of unintentional things but it could be something that’s stifling her. I totally understand that women need to own their sexual identity but everyone takes ques from people around them in everyday life, why would that not apply in the bedroom.


A good proportion of wives do have the "good girl" mentality, especially with their husband. I think a proportion of husband's, also put their wives on a pedestal, at least sexually. Jokes aside, I am very much a dominant man in our marriage and sex life.

I think a great deal of my wife's reticence to just let go is religious based.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

LoriD1974 said:


> This! ❤
> 
> This is what I am alluding to. The idea that maybe what your wife wants in the absolute is to jump on you when you walk in from work like a rabbit on heat, she really might.
> 
> My OP was referring to just this dynamic of the wanting husband and the wife that “might” feel blocked in some way to be her sexually uninhabited self. Is it a look, the words or lack of them, is it the way you do or don’t act with her, is it body language or how you show her your desire. It could be a multitude of unintentional things but it could be something that’s stifling her. I totally understand that women need to own their sexual identity but everyone takes ques from people around them in everyday life, why would that not apply in the bedroom.


But your OP referres to husbands in general. 
Your Tag Line says do husbands....
Not some, all of us.
But as you are starting to at least give a Bit of your motivation to get behind your husbands back, I Like to ask one question: how would you feel If the Tables are turned. Would you be so casual about it as you are when he would have cheated?


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## LoriD1974 (2 mo ago)

sleeping_sandman said:


> But your OP referres to husbands in general.
> Your Tag Line says do husbands....
> Not some, all of us.
> But as you are starting to at least give a Bit of your motivation to get behind your husbands back, I Like to ask one question: how would you feel If the Tables are turned. Would you be so casual about it as you are when he would have cheated?


It’s quite obvious I don’t personally know every husband therefore I was under the assumption readers would be apt enough to gather I wasn’t referring to ALL husbands. If not I apologise.

Furthermore you are under the assumption my husband hasn’t been unfaithful.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

LoriD1974 said:


> It’s quite obvious I don’t personally know every husband therefore I was under the assumption readers would be apt enough to gather I wasn’t referring to ALL husbands. If not I apologise.
> 
> Furthermore you are under the assumption my husband hasn’t been unfaithful.


Yes I am. Otherwise you and your husband are both damaged goods.
But OK, you have your definition of marriage and I have a total different one.
But as Bo-Slander Said: His wife stiffeled him and then getting out in an affair to give exactly what she denies him to the AP. 
Maybe that is much more the problem.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I agree with. They may be married to a very good wife or husband, who formally has everything a picture perfect husband or wife should have. But a marriage is more than just a checklist of qualities. it ids desire, passion, romance that is impossible to force or buy. And if it is not there by some reason or long lost while everything else is perfect it is hard to end such marriage. That's why some people try to supplement this outside. I am not saying this is right, it is just life. A divorce is often very hard (as opposed to marriage) an sometimes even impoossible.


I believe, a person who “supplements” as you call it has an attitude of entitlement. They are fixated on their own “happiness” and “needs”. Expecting their spouse to be their “happy maker” rather than a partner with whom happiness is built, together. Most often instead of working to achieve something greater, the finger points outward to blame for their deficit that’s inside themselves. Then entitlement comes into play and… I believe that’s how most affairs are born. 

I DO have experience in the matter, and I will tell you that even being the “perfect” spouse can trigger an avalanche of entitlement and selfishness in a person who is fixated on “getting their happy” externally. It’s like feeding a black hole. You aren’t allowed to even be human anymore with this kind of person because any and every issue will be microscopically examined and exploited for justification. Things you did 20 years ago are dragged into the light and picked apart. 

Consider yourself lucky you don’t know, but please don’t preach about what marital deficits cause people to cheat. It’s simply not true much of the time.


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## LoriD1974 (2 mo ago)

sleeping_sandman said:


> But as Bo-Slander Said: His wife stiffeled him and then getting out in an affair to give exactly what she denies him to the AP.


How is he so sure, was he the ultimate lover, the sultan of seduction, the expert in female desire beyond compare? Maybe just the mere human he was stifled her well before her unfaithfulness.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

LoriD1974 said:


> How is he so sure, was he the ultimate lover, the sultan of seduction, the expert in female desire beyond compare? Maybe just the mere human he was stifled her well before her unfaithfulness.


I don't, but blocking him what she gives others is not him stiffleing her. That is the only thing I want to say. 

You are so adamant about to hang the guilt for unfaithfulness of wifes to the husbands. 
But you never, ever gave the explanation that you can see the difference between a marriage, where much more factors in than ****ing you senseless and an Affair, which is just about that one single point. 
In your scenario no marriage will ever stand a chance. 

As I said earlier: If the husband should be more like the AP then maybe providing the family with house and haven has to stop. 
He can take his money for himself and maybe shower you with gifts once in a while for you getting extra naught on him or book hotels. But the rest is your problem then. 
Find a place to live, pay for everything on your own. No alimony, no childsupport. 
Because that is what an affair is about. The OM/OW has no commitment in you or the husband. 

Be truthful to yourself: Can you see your AP as a Husband for you and a fether to your potential kids and STILL be the stud who ****s you blind? 
Would really like to know the answer. 
And another question Did you stifle your husband sexually. You suggested he had an affair, too. So by your reasoning... just saying. 

Even if I would like to have some of my questions answered, I am quite sure that we will never see eye to eye on this. My job experience just hinders me to have any compassion for cheaters on both sides. 
So maybe you might indulge me with an answer or not, I think we can stop bickering here. There are many other questions from useres disagreenign with you, you eeriely didn't answer and that is telling enough.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

In a way you have told your husband that he is a crap sex partner, must be hard for him to swallow


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## LoriD1974 (2 mo ago)

sleeping_sandman said:


> But you never, ever gave the explanation that you can see the difference between a marriage, where much more factors in than ****ing you senseless and an Affair, which is just about that one single point.
> In your scenario no marriage will ever stand a chance.


21 years married and an affair, I know the difference.




sleeping_sandman said:


> As I said earlier: If the husband should be more like the AP then maybe providing the family with house and haven has to stop.
> He can take his money for himself and maybe shower you with gifts once in a while for you getting extra naught on him or book hotels. But the rest is your problem then.
> Find a place to live, pay for everything on your own. No alimony, no childsupport.
> Because that is what an affair is about. The OM/OW has no commitment in you or the husband.


Your concept of an affair is very “movie” like. There were no gifts, he wasn’t paying me in gifts. He wasn’t my sugar daddy. By the way, I have been earning more than my husband for many years! It’s not 1940 stop assuming women can’t survive or thrive without a man. 



sleeping_sandman said:


> Be truthful to yourself: Can you see your AP as a Husband for you and a fether to your potential kids and STILL be the stud who ****s you blind?
> Would really like to know the answer.
> And another question Did you stifle your husband sexually. You suggested he had an affair, too. So by your reasoning... just saying.


Suggesting I make the comparison between an affair partner being just that and thinking about what it would be like if he was my husband is pointless. Unless I was considering having him as my husband which of course I wasn’t.
Sure I may have stifled my husband sexually, I’ve never said that it couldn’t have been a possibility. However my OP was in reference to husbands commenting on their wives during their affairs and I posted in regards to a female perspective.



sleeping_sandman said:


> Even if I would like to have some of my questions answered, I am quite sure that we will never see eye to eye on this. My job experience just hinders me to have any compassion for cheaters on both sides.
> So maybe you might indulge me with an answer or not, I think we can stop bickering here. There are many other questions from useres disagreenign with you, you eeriely didn't answer and that is telling enough.


Not bickering, and I’m happy to agree to disagree. I’ve commented on your posts as they were at the end of the discussion at a point when I’ve had time to respond. 😊


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## umbluu (Jan 24, 2020)

sandman:
---Be truthful to yourself: Can you see your AP as a Husband for you and a fether to your potential kids and STILL be the stud who ****s you blind? 
---As I said earlier: If the husband should be more like the AP then maybe providing the family with house and haven has to stop. 

Sounds too much like a male version of the madonna /w***e complex to me...

But I would like to turn this question around and ask Lori: suppose one day your husband's stifling attitude to sex changed significantly?... Would you be able to actually accept that? This is not as simple question as it seems - after all, you have selected him in the first place, with this attitude (maybe less pronounced at the honeymoon stage) and all other pieces of the puzzle that come with it?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LoriD1974 said:


> How is he so sure, was he the ultimate lover, the sultan of seduction, the expert in female desire beyond compare? Maybe just the mere human he was stifled her well before her unfaithfulness.


Maybe monkeys flew out of his butt and he's lying to us about it....

Take his statement at value if you want the same.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

LoriD1974 said:


> How is he so sure, was he the ultimate lover, the sultan of seduction, the expert in female desire beyond compare? Maybe just the mere human he was stifled her well before her unfaithfulness.


If that were the case, she should've at the very least handed me divorce papers instead of f*cking the entire neighborhood behind my back. Some people's garbage is other people's treasure you know... I now believe that had she divorced me when she had her first post-marital interaction with her ex (which I believe took place months after we got married,) I would've been able to find another lady whom I would've made very happy. Instead I married a wh-re who came at me as a Mother Theresa. THAT is the f-cked up part. MY XW. Should. Have. Never. Gotten. Married. She was addicted to penis and she should've let all the males she came to interact with know that she was aDICKted. Dícknotized. As I always say, *life is about making informed decisions*.

There were days I would do essentially everything around the house just to get some _punani _(cooking, cleaning, work 8 hour shift, etc) and STILL get the basic rum-a-dump. I always made sure to wine and dine her, put flower petals on the bed as well as candles everywhere (sometimes) but she... she just wasn't into it. She did not see me a lover. She saw me as an excellent provider, an excellent father, and excellent husband but her libido was somewhere else. And I refuse, REFUSE, to take any blame in that. If I had anything to do with it she wouldn't be at her in-laws right now, taking care of a monumental depression that she is most likely not going to get out of because her conscience has caught up with her.

I bet that NOW, *NOW*, if I were to take her back, she's do EVERYTHING sexually I ask of her, yet nothing has changed. But now she disgusts me. It's over.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

BoSlander said:


> I bet that NOW, *NOW*, if I were to take her back, she's do EVERYTHING I ask of her. But now she disgusts me. It's over.


No she wouldn't


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

LoriD1974 said:


> 21 years married and an affair, I know the difference.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your recent posts make it clear to me that your husband wasn't stifling your sexuality. You just chose to not expose that part of you to the person that fills many more roles than just lover. However, when you had someone that was nothing more than a **** buddy you cut loose. Those are all your choices and none of it is on your husband. Had your husband's and your AP's roles been reverse I suspect you would have experienced that sexual abandon during the affair.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

BoSlander said:


> If that were the case, she should've at the very least handed me divorce papers instead of f*cking the entire neighborhood behind my back. Some people's garbage is other people's treasure you know... I now believe that had she divorced me when she had her first post-marital interaction with her ex (which I believe took place months after we got married,) I would've been able to find another lady whom I would've made very happy. Instead I married a wh-re who came at me as a Mother Theresa. THAT is the f-cked up part. MY XW. Should. Have. Never. Gotten. Married. She was addicted to penis and she should've let all the males she came to interact with know that she was aDICKted. Dícknotized. As I always say, *life is about making informed decisions*.
> 
> There were days I would do essentially everything around the house just to get some _punani _(cooking, cleaning, work 8 hour shift, etc) and STILL get the basic rum-a-dump. I always made sure to wine and dine her, put flower petals on the bed as well as candles everywhere (sometimes) but she... she just wasn't into it. She did not see me a lover. She saw me as an excellent provider, an excellent father, and excellent husband but her libido was somewhere else. And I refuse, REFUSE, to take any blame in that. If I had anything to do with it she wouldn't be at her in-laws right now, taking care of a monumental depression that she is most likely not going to get out of because her conscience has caught up with her.
> 
> I bet that NOW, *NOW*, if I were to take her back, she's do EVERYTHING sexually I ask of her, yet nothing has changed. But now she disgusts me. It's over.


She just was not sexually attracted to you. No matter how much you dined and wined her it would not make her attracted to you.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

LoriD1974 said:


> My husband is aware of the affair yes. Can you elaborate as to why you feel it's intrinsic to the original post?


I think a lot of people here have been betrayed and this subject may be triggering.

The topic is essentially seen as: “Is the betrayed spouse’s inadequacies the root cause of their spouse’s affair.”


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

Lori, 

I just realised something. 
As you can see I am german.
to stifle - in german is akin to suffocate, smother, strangle
Which all mean a terrbile murderous thing. 
Is it possibe that your interpretation is not that strong? 
If so, please read with some grain of salt what I wrote. As I come from the very dark meaning of ersticken.... 
If you use ersticken you always end up with something dead. 




LoriD1974 said:


> 21 years married and an affair, I know the difference.


Ok, I take that as face value, even if I have my doubts from some of your comments before. Or rather your concept of marriage and mine are totally different. I commint my complete self to mine since over 30 years now. I am not a christian, never was, but there is truth in "in good times and in bad." You on the other hand seem to be the person who circumvents challenges. 
But that is only my view on how I understand your OP and question. 
The main point was that your marriage had never had a chance in your mindset.
You took a single point of satisfaction and weight it against a multi-factor relationship.
As might or might not your husband.

So, if you do that, why don't you live in an open relationship or in a marriage at all? Where is the benefit for the both of you? Not only you. But for the person you promised to love and cherish when you made your wedding vows. And they are included even in a complete religionfree marriage ceremony. 
I can't understand how tiptoeing around each other, constantly in worries that the other one is going behind your back is a marriage worth holding on to. 
An Affair, as I understand the term is always something secretive and in more than less of the cases mssively damaging for the receiving part of the betrayal. 

I really don't get why you are married if you think so low of your husband. 


You think of your husband as a murderer to your sexuality.
And yet you stay with him. Betray him, make a Hahnrei of him. Why? To get back at him because he murdered your sexuality? 
That is some unhealthy **** if I ever saw one. 

Or it is just a language barrier and stifle in english is not so strongly conoted.
I hope the second one.... 



LoriD1974 said:


> Your concept of an affair is very “movie” like. There were no gifts, he wasn’t paying me in gifts. He wasn’t my sugar daddy. By the way, I have been earning more than my husband for many years! It’s not 1940 stop assuming women can’t survive or thrive without a man.


I know it is not 1940, and I exxagerated to ruffle your feathers a bit. I thought this was obvious, sorry for not marking it, as I know all these things are lost in writing and still not tagging it proper. 
My angle is another one. 
A marriage is a multi-factor relationship. An affair is single point. So the cumbersome marriage can't win in your worldview. Ever. 
Everytime things become a bit rough and you are not satisfied you will run of to some Carlos and make a fool out of your husband. 
And I take the male stance here as you are taking the female stance, as you yourself stated. 

And if you get to the angle of: Oh, little male ego hurt, which have shown through in some of your posts, that is fine, you can do that. 
But that is not love, that is... someting entirely different. 
Women can strive without a man. - Yes,you can. Of course you can.

But with a mindset like yours why marry in the first place? What for, if you break out one major part of it? 
Why not just living shared apartment as FWB, if you must? Why the vows and all that if they do not have any meaning to you at all? Why the legal entanglements and ballast if you view marriage so low, as you obviously do? 

That is my main problem I have with your whole concept and casual approach to the hurt and destruction an affair will do to a marriage. 

As said this is a problem I have, because I deal with the most wounded from your whole, if you feel not staisfied just go **** someone else while Hubby/Wife keeps the children happy thing

You call my concept movie like. I call yours P0rn-Hub like. 
You do not see the outcome it has on the person betrayed. You see yourself and your ****buddy and wipe the person you are married to totally from your mind. How do you do that? How can someone compartmentalise his SO so completely when living in a good relationship? 
And if it is bad (stifle - remember, he is murdering your sexuality. That is what you say) and you are as independet as you state, why continue it? 



LoriD1974 said:


> Suggesting I make the comparison between an affair partner being just that and thinking about what it would be like if he was my husband is pointless. Unless I was considering having him as my husband which of course I wasn’t.
> Sure I may have stifled my husband sexually, I’ve never said that it couldn’t have been a possibility. However my OP was in reference to husbands commenting on their wives during their affairs and I posted in regards to a female perspective.


You yourself made the comparison. You said husbands are stifleing their wifes and the AP gives them everything they ever wanted. You not only compared them, you already declared your judgement (you remeber.. he let you revel and your husband is stiffeling, what a killer judgement for your husband. He must be so proud to be with a wife that regards him THAT high. And yes that was sarcasm). Your AP is better in everything sexual. Your man... a minor inconvenience to keep around if AP is not available or for the occasional chore to be done. Meh. 





LoriD1974 said:


> Not bickering, and I’m happy to agree to disagree. I’ve commented on your posts as they were at the end of the discussion at a point when I’ve had time to respond. 😊


Thanks for discussing with me even with me being of diametral opinion to yours. We will never reach common ground though, I fear.

So here I will give you an inside of how far we are apart from each other. 
And I let you decide if you like to discuss any further. 


As you can see I post sometimes much sometimes not. It is because your whole thread is triggering to me hard after having to deal with a suicide-attempt.
Normally I would lay all that on my wife before going on the internet. But she is on a 48-hours shift in hospital and will be home in no state to deal with my emotional disturbance, maybe has some on her own as she is the leading ER-surgeon this week. 

I lost someone just yesterday to a person with exactly your mindset. 
He was at the balcony knife (I leave out where he hold it to not trigger the censormachine)
Neighbour called us and told us he found her with AP in the flat. Totally freaked out.
We rushed upstairs, Police already at scene. We enter the flat, moved in on him under police cover because of the knife. 
Person, obviously his wife, was standing in the middle of the living room and taunting him. 
I think she didn't even realise what she was doing. 
She was so full of herself in having all the right in the world to sleep around. He will not go through with it etc. 
We didn't even get close enough to attach the safety cord or pull him in, but I could see it in his eyes. He was already gone. 
His last words to his wife were: Why? Why was I never good enough? 
She only snapped out of her selfrightous stance when we all heard the THUMP. 
A sound I never get used to. Colleagues hadn't even begun to pump up the air bag. Normally my job is to buy them time... 
Most candidates go out in a quiter fashion.. But all in a while you have a jumper. 

With her, I think, I might have the next candidate for my diary. She welled up when finally realising what she did.

Luckily for me the real counsellor was at scene at this time, so I didn't have to pitch in. I am not good in consoling the perpetrator. I would have shown her the corpse and asked her if she is satisfied now. 
No, of course I wouldn't but I am more than tempted every single time I have a relationship related case. During COVID and 

Her AP? Gone with the wind. Police will catch up with him. Wittness and all. Will receive the full report on it by tonight. 
Police guy who was first at the scene gave me a rundown later. Needed to talk, never saw a jumper first hand. 
She was shouting at the jumper, obviously triggered by getting caught. Was already going on for half an hour when he arrived. She opened and rushed back to the living room. He was at the balcony at the time standing on the railing.
He wasn't able to remove her without force. And that is the one thing you don't do in view of a suicide attempt. 3 mins later I rushed in. 
Why did he not ignore the guidelines? I would have at least stand a fighting chance. Not like this.

That's how devastating a mindset like yours is if it starts to spread to people not fit for it. People like me work overtime. Especially with christmas approaching. And this takes a toll on me. Everytime.

That is why I might appear so hostile to you sometimes. 

I apologise for any rudeness on my part, I do not have the right to do this. But I can't help myself and the internet barrier between us doesn't help.


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## umbluu (Jan 24, 2020)

sandman, I will start by telling you I have tremendous respect towards you and everybody else in your line of work.

On the other hand, everything I know about human relations, psychology, etc, makes it very hard for me to believe that an otherwise psychologically healthy, well-balanced individual (of either gender) would kill him/herself upon discovering that their partner is having an affair. If that were a common response, half of TAM would be gone by now.
And of course in the moment the person with suicidal ideas would genuinely feel and say "but I did everything for you, why was I not enough?" This is a part of the inner train of thoughts that led him to suicide in the first place. May or may not have any connection with reality. Maybe his wife has always been an impossible to satisfy b***h, or maybe he was always seeing himself as a victim because he had BPD or NPD (covert version). Or maybe he was genuinely doing the best he could (within his limitations which included the mindset that made him susceptible to suicide), but it was not what she needed.
Sure, taunting the one threatening suicide or calling their bluff is not a behavior recommended by suicide preventers, and she should not have done that, but maybe his wife was sick and tired of him being manipulative from victim position. Maybe that was the reason, in her mind, why she had an affair in the first place.
Yes, I still believe that to divorce would be better / more honest than to have an affair. But, particularly from the viewpoint of suicide prevention, the person willing and able to kill himself due to an affair could as well kill himself due to wife divorcing him.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

umbluu said:


> sandman, I will start by telling you I have tremendous respect towards you and everybody else in your line of work.
> 
> On the other hand, everything I know about human relations, psychology, etc, makes it very hard for me to believe that an otherwise psychologically healthy, well-balanced individual (of either gender) would kill him/herself upon discovering that their partner is having an affair. If that were a common response, half of TAM would be gone by now.
> And of course in the moment the person with suicidal ideas would genuinely feel and say "but I did everything for you, why was I not enough?" This is a part of the inner train of thoughts that led him to suicide in the first place. May or may not have any connection with reality. Maybe his wife has always been an impossible to satisfy b***h, or maybe he was always seeing himself as a victim because he had BPD or NPD (covert version). Or maybe he was genuinely doing the best he could (within his limitations which included the mindset that made him susceptible to suicide), but it was not what she needed.
> ...


I am completely with you on this one, of course someone taking his or her life has deeper mental issues. But a wife who really cares would see these issues, especially when they culminate to the point of suicidal tendencies. That is not hideable at all over extended periods of time. 
The difference is the trauma received to push you over the edge.

Here it was a direct froced trauma. If the wife knew about his tendencies (to follow your line of reasoning) she could have filed for divorce and simultaneously inform suicide prevention teams. 
This way she gave him a heavy trauma AND attacked him afterwards. 
Of course any mentally stable person wouldn't do that. But then my job is not about mentally stable persons, is it? I am an emergency suicide prevention paramedic. The clue is in the title ;-) 
That is why such threads trigger me. 
I was diagnosed with PTSD when Lockdown 

I think she should have posted it in one of the Cheater forums, where you can mock your spouse how dumb they are and how clever and fullfilled you are. Insult to Injury. 
As Craig points out above, her whole topic can be perceived as an attack on the BS
From my prospect she would be better suited there. 
And frankly, I think she came from there. She joined on Nov. 7th and immediately starts a thread in which she says - own fault, you should be more like AP without ever acknowleding that there are two diffeernt dynamics, and that the Spouse can never win due to single-aim against multi-factor. 

I just use this thread here to cope with things until my wife gets home and I find a shoulder to vent and cry and find comfort on. 
An ER-surgeon herself we share the same Traumata, so she understands. I already forwarned her by text.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

sleeping_sandman said:


> But with a mindset like yours why marry in the first place? What for, if you break out one major part of it?
> Why not just living shared apartment as FWB, if you must? Why the vows and all that if they do not have any meaning to you at all? Why the legal entanglements and ballast if you view marriage so low, as you obviously do?


IMO this is the crux of the matter. Why marry or stay married if a person wants to play the field? It isn't like they are handcuffed to their spouse? 

But this is a thread jack I suppose as the original question was whether a man "stifling" his wife's sexuality is a reason for her stepping out on him ( as opposed to divorcing him and then s crewing everyone and anyone she wants to.) Or not being as good in the sack as she requires. Of course the genders can be switched and the same logic used.

The answer to the original question is yes. But, we can always find an excuse in blaming someone else for doing whatever we WANT to do. It's like an abuser telling their victim "look what you made me do".


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

^^^^THIS^^^^


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

sleeping_sandman said:


> Lori,
> 
> I just realised something. As you can see I am German. To stifle, in German, is akin to suffocate, smother, strangle.
> Which all mean a terrbile murderous thing. Is it possibe that your interpretation is not that strong?
> ...


* sti·fle 1 (stī′fəl)
tr.v. sti·fled, sti·fling, sti·fles

1. To interrupt or cut off (the voice, for example).

2. To keep in or hold back; repress: stifled my indignation.

3. To kill by preventing respiration; smother or suffocate. *

In English, to “stifle” means to hold back, slow down, repress, etc. I have never heard it used to mean literally killing somebody or something. I have never heard a victim of suffocation referred to as having been stifled.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> But this is a thread jack I suppose as *the original question was whether a man "stifling" his wife's sexuality is a reason for her stepping out on him (as opposed to divorcing him and then s crewing everyone and anyone she wants to.) Or not being as good in the sack as she requires. * Of course the genders can be switched and the same logic used.
> 
> The answer to the original question is yes. But, we can always find an excuse in blaming someone else for doing whatever we WANT to do. It's like an abuser telling their victim "look what you made me do".


That was not the original question. The question was whether some husbands unintentionally stifle their wives’ sexuality:



LoriD1974 said:


> I'm wondering if anyone feels that husbands may stifle their wives sexuality within their marriage by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings.


I agree that the answer to the original question is yes.

Wives do this, too. Acting like sex is a chore, using sex as a bargaining chip, limiting positions in bed, having zero foreplay, dead starfish sex, etc.

I remember somebody posting that she knew a lot of great moves performed by better skilled ex-lovers but she refused to teach her husband those moves because she associated those moves with her exes. Each man is different in bed, she’s happy with her husband’s moves in bed, and that’s that. Did she stifle his sexuality by refusing to teach him? I say yes. Did she act wrongfully by refusing to teach him? I say no.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

CraigBesuden said:


> * sti·fle 1 (stī′fəl)
> tr.v. sti·fled, sti·fling, sti·fles
> 
> 1. To interrupt or cut off (the voice, for example).
> ...


Thanks man!
That is the problem with second languages


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

sleeping_sandman said:


> Thanks man!
> That is the problem with second languages


At least you are conversant in (at least) two languages. I'm not even good with one.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

I think we stifled Lori with too much posting, arguing and not answering her question. 

The people who say something we don't want to hear are often the ones we should listen to since they contribute so much to our empathy and understanding.


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## Brigit24 (2 mo ago)

TAMAT said:


> I think we stifled Lori with too much posting, arguing and not answering her question.
> 
> The people who say something we don't want to hear are often the ones we should listen to since they contribute so much to our empathy and understanding.


Her question was answered by many. You can only answer from your own experience. The sense I got was she was wondering if it's her husbands fault that she doesn't feel free and sexual with him because of communication issues and was hoping other people might relate. 

I could be reading this wrong but it sounds like typical guilt. It's so much easier to blame issues on others than take responsibility for actions. Nobody likes to be the bad one. Sometimes you are the bad one. Sometimes you're not.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Is it wrong then to treat your wife like an AP? To just abandon concerns for love and passion and just grunt it out till she screams anyway? So many situations, so many variables. Men are fairly simplistic in this way where women can be so hard to read. Does aquiescing to her no to this or no to that create a situation where a wife starts to see her husband as weak, not the type that fantasies are based on at times. Will she loose respect for him as man who is weak and doesn't take what is his?
It psychologically gets very confusing at times and lines become blurred.
Does she want to be treated like a pure and sweet girl or does she wanna be your dirty little s**t? Or does it fall somewhere in between?


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

People got emotional when they hear word "affair" and deviate from the OP question.

Some state that the husband provided everything AP did. No he did not. AP was enthusiastic about sex while her husband was indifferent. Do you feel the difference between a girl giving you BJ like a chore and a girl doing it with glow in her eyes? There is a reasonable question we can ask if the OP shod have communicate to her husband that she is enjoying kinky or non vanilla sex and she wants her husband to enjoy it too. she clearly did not have to communicate anything to her AP, it just happened naturally which only increased her sexual excitement. 

An affair is bad, we all including OP admit this. But what this post is about is not about if it is bad or not or can be justified it is about if stifling your wife sexually thus making her sexually unsatisfied can create a perfect ground for an affair. If you have hungry people living in the vicinity of a supermarket that has all kind of food available some of these people sooner or later will start stealing food from this supermarket. Yes, it is wrong to steal, but the fact you have hungry people and a place with food available close by creates a perfect ground for stealing.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> People got emotional when they hear word "affair" and deviate from the OP question.
> 
> Some state that the husband provided everything AP did. No he did not.* AP was enthusiastic about sex while her husband was indifferent. *Do you feel the difference between a girl giving you BJ like a chore and a girl doing it with glow in her eyes? There is a reasonable question we can ask if the OP shod have communicate to her husband that she is enjoying kinky or non vanilla sex and she wants her husband to enjoy it too. she clearly did not have to communicate anything to her AP, it just happened naturally which only increased her sexual excitement.
> 
> An affair is bad, we all including OP admit this. But what this post is about is not about if it is bad or not or can be justified it is about if stifling your wife sexually thus *making her sexually unsatisfied can create a perfect ground for an affair.* If you have hungry people living in the vicinity of a supermarket that has all kind of food available some of these people sooner or later will start stealing food from this supermarket. Yes, it is wrong to steal, but the fact you have *hungry people and a place with food available close by creates a perfect ground for stealing.*


So if all of this is true, then isn't an affair inevitable? I mean eventually isn't being sexually unsatisfied someday/somehow going to happen? So OP didn't need to say anything to her husband, because the AP enthusiastic and her husband wasn't? Maybe husband had some tough times at work or paying the bills. Too bad.

It goes for both genders. So a man who isn't getting what he wants from his wife at the frequency he wants should just go find a sidepiece. His wife not being enthusiastic is all the justification needed, correct?


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

romantic_dreamer said:


> She just was not sexually attracted to you. No matter how much you dined and wined her it would not make her attracted to you.


I would've had NO ISSUE with this if she had brought it up before we got married.

I would've been able to move on with my life and so would she.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

BoSlander said:


> I would've had NO ISSUE with this if she had brought it up before we got married.
> 
> I would've been able to move on with my life and so would she.


Unfortunately this doesn't always happen. Especially if the woman is looking to lock a man down for other reasons.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> So if all of this is true, then isn't an affair inevitable? I mean eventually isn't being sexually unsatisfied someday/somehow going to happen? So OP didn't need to say anything to her husband, because the AP enthusiastic and her husband wasn't? Maybe husband had some tough times at work or paying the bills. Too bad.
> 
> It goes for both genders. So a man who isn't getting what he wants from his wife at the frequency he wants should just go find a sidepiece. His wife not being enthusiastic is all the justification needed, correct?


No, an affair is not inevitable. But if one or both partners are not sexually satisfied it will lead to some outcome. Either an affair or divorce. Few people can be permanently unhappy. There can be factors that make an affair more likely. If you are not getting sexual connection from your spouse and there is another person in your life who is ready and happy to give you what you are missing it makes a affair more likely.

As I said it is legitimate question why the OP did not communicate to her husband she wants and willing to engage in more kinky sex. Though maybe she did or knew what his response would be.

We can complain or blame cheaters as much as we want but there is basic biology. A healthy sexually active person will seek to connect with equally sexually mined partner ho he or she finds attractive. And no marriage can stop this


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

As I understand it:

The husband stifling OP's sexuality meant not communicating to her with words or actions that he saw her as a sensual, sexual being. He could've been unaware there was even a problem. And it does not seem like the OP mentioned her sexual desires to her husband and he refused--or "stifled"--her. Is OP's husband supposed to be a mind reader? 

Put yourself in OP's husband's shoes. You think everything is fine, your wife hasn't said a word to you about any of it but she feels like you don't see her as a sensual, sexual being. Without her communicating that to you, how would you know or realize? At best, he stifled her sexuality without the knowledge and intent of doing so. Communication is a wonderful thing.

If I've missed a post where any of the above means I'm wrong, please do let me know.



LoriD1974 said:


> So I'm wondering if anyone feels that husbands may stifle their wives sexuality within their marriage by not communicating to them, with words or actions, that they see them as sensual, sexual beings.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

BoSlander said:


> I would've had NO ISSUE with this if she had brought it up before we got married.
> 
> I would've been able to move on with my life and so would she.


I understand your frustration and feel betrayed. There can be multiple reasons for this. She might have found you attractive initially but then list attraction (maybe you gained weight or changed). She might not have been initially sexually attracted to you but accepted you as a partner for your other good qualities. 

I understand all this doesn't make your pain less. I am just trying to stress that trying to be nice or wine and dine a woman who by whatever reason is not attracted to you us a waste of time and resources. you should have realized this sooner and found a woman who did find your attractive and who would have greatly appreciated all your great gestures towards her.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> And no marriage can stop this


So then why get married? For the tax break? Why not just have FBs n FWBs? What is the point if marrying until there is a bump in the sexual road. Just remain single.

I think the forbidden fruit being sweeter is the main attraction of affairs. Sneaking around and doing nasty in secret drives the passion.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

so_sweet said:


> As I understand it:
> 
> The husband stifling OP's sexuality meant not communicating to her with words or actions that he saw her as a sensual, sexual being. He could've been unaware there was even a problem. And it does not seem like the OP mentioned her sexual desires to her husband and he refused--or "stifled"--her. Is OP's husband supposed to be a mind reader?
> 
> ...


I think it is more complex. First, OP said she tried the same things with her husband she did with the AP but the husband was unenthusiastic and this killed her mood. I don't understand how you communicate to your partner to be enthusiastic about sex? How can I tell my wife I want her to enthusiastically give me a BJ if she treats it as a chore?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> So then why get married? For the tax break? Why not just have FBs n FWBs? What is the point if marrying until there is a bump in the sexual road. Just remain single.


This is exactly my mindset now


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## Brigit24 (2 mo ago)

IMHO too much pressure is being put on the act of sex. It's like money. Or, cooking skills. Sex isn't going to be the same in a marriage as it is when you're dating. This is why so much premarital sex has led society down a bad path. 

If exciting sex is so important to you then maybe marriage isn't a good idea. Stay single and have lots of excitement. It's a much better path.


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## Brigit24 (2 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> So then why get married? For the tax break? Why not just have FBs n FWBs? What is the point if marrying until there is a bump in the sexual road. Just remain single.
> 
> I think the forbidden fruit being sweeter is the main attraction of affairs. Sneaking around and doing nasty in secret drives the passion.


LOL! I just posted something similar.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> So then why get married? For the tax break? Why not just have FBs n FWBs? What is the point if marrying until there is a bump in the sexual road. Just remain single.
> 
> I think the forbidden fruit being sweeter is the main attraction of affairs. Sneaking around and doing nasty in secret drives the passion.


People get married for many reasons beyond just sex. I actually don't know anyone who married just for sex. However the key problem that can later lead to this sexual frustration including affairs is people undestimate the importance of sexual intimacy and sexual compatibility in a marriage.

Yes, some people are driven by "forbidden fruit" when seeking an affair. But I think majority are driven by the fact they don't get from their spouse what they get from their AP.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

romantic_dreamer said:


> People get married for many reasons beyond just sex. I actually don't know anyone who married just for sex. However the key problem that can later lead to this sexual frustration including affairs is people undestimate the importance of sexual intimacy and sexual compatibility in a marriage.
> 
> Yes, some people are driven by "forbidden fruit" when seeking an affair. But I think majority are driven by the fact they don't get from their spouse what they get from their AP.


Reminds me of an old saying,

"If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it's yours forever. If it doesn't, his new girlfriend probably does anal."


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Brigit24 said:


> IMHO too much pressure is being put on the act of sex. It's like money. Or, cooking skills. Sex isn't going to be the same in a marriage as it is when you're dating. This is why so much premarital sex has led society down a bad path.
> 
> If exciting sex is so important to you then maybe marriage isn't a good idea. Stay single and have lots of excitement. It's a much better path.


I disagree with this. Sex must be exciting before marriage and in the marriage. Marriage should not put a blocker on sexual expression or desire or excitement. It should only increase it with safe committed partner who you love and who loves you.


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## Brigit24 (2 mo ago)

romantic_dreamer said:


> People get married for many reasons beyond just sex. I actually don't know anyone who married just for sex. *However the key problem that can later lead to this sexual frustration including affairs is people undestimate the importance of sexual intimacy and sexual compatibility in a marriage.*
> 
> Yes, some people are driven by "forbidden fruit" when seeking an affair. But I think majority are driven by the fact they don't get from their spouse what they get from their AP.


Yes. Marriage is filled with frustrations. Life is uncertain and messy. People change. Horrible things happen or just mundane stuff happens. People who are very involved in the Church have some type of premarital couples counseling. This is something I wish I had but didn't. I figured all my stuff out the hard way but I got it. Finally. I'm lucky. 

The world is messed up right now. Too much sexually explicit material being shoved in your face everywhere. I hope modesty makes a comeback.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I think it is more complex. First, OP said she tried the same things with her husband she did with the AP but the husband was unenthusiastic and this killed her mood. I don't understand how you communicate to your partner to be enthusiastic about sex? How can I tell my wife I want her to enthusiastically give me a BJ if she treats it as a chore?


I must have missed the post where OP said she tried the same things with her husband that she did with the AP but the husband was unenthusiastic and it killed the mood. Anyone know which post OP said this?

What I read in the OP was this:


LoriD1974 said:


> I can (ashamedly) agree that during my affair I was often much more willing with my AP to engage in spontaneous, explicit sexual encounters than with my husband. I don't feel I did anything that in the right setting/atmosphere I would not do with my Husband, just that he never asked for, seemed to desire or assume I'd want to do those things with him


So, OP says the husband never asked for, seemed to desire or assume she'd want those things with him. It sounds like she was waiting for the husband to make all the moves and expected him to do so without any communication from her about it.

That's how I understood it.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I understand your frustration and feel betrayed. There can be multiple reasons for this. She might have found you attractive initially but then list attraction (maybe you gained weight or changed).


I've always been in tip-top shape and people compliment me all the time about not looking/dressing my age. Even now, I get hit on by women and every female I know is trying really hard to get one of their friends to go out with me (I'm a catch). I get boners every morning, pull 700 watts on the Peloton every single day, make over 6 figures and like to live a fairly social life (restaurants, movies, vacations, etc). I have many qualities that 99.99999999999% of the females on this world would stab each other over. There is literally NOTHING wrong with me. I have everything going for me.

Now, the last dude she cheated on me, THAT is just comical: she's a 6 and was banging a George Costanza-lookalike. Not to mention two of the coworkers before him. It just wasn't about me, or her sexual pleasure, to cheaters it's always about the cheating, about the thrill. About the thrill of cheating and getting away with it.



> She might not have been initially sexually attracted to you but accepted you as a partner for your other good qualities.


Like I said before, I did not know her background when I first met her, BUUUUUUT she did come at me as though she was a virgin and was always careful to let me know that she just hadn't sexually plowed through a barrage of men before she got with me. If, initially, there was no attraction on her part, as an adult, she should've broken it off right then and there. Life is about making informed decisions.



> I understand all this doesn't make your pain less. I am just trying to stress that trying to be nice or wine and dine a woman who by whatever reason is not attracted to you us a waste of time and resources. you should have realized this sooner and found a woman who did find your attractive and who would have greatly appreciated all your great gestures towards her.


I think you're very misguided when it comes to female behavior and sexuality and your commentary wreaks of immaturity. The sexual "situation" most married men in the Western world tend to end up in is entirely, solely and SLOWLY concocted by their female companions. From the boredom in the bedroom to the lack of sex or the lack of romanticism, these are all processes that the American female controls (men control the marriage, females control the sex). It first starts with the intentional withholding of information, then the lack of communication and it culminates with the lack of sexual desire and variety. Not to mention the shutting down ("don't even bring it up again!!!") of any sexual curiosity.

You have no idea how difficult it is for a man to, for example, perform cunnilingus from behind and feel her sphynx gently contract and relax asking for penetration but because of some f-cked up reason, her idiotic hypergamic bullsh-t instinct, she can't and will limit her own sexual pleasure because of it. That, to me, is the crux of the issue: her limiting/using her own sexual pleasure because she can't get rid of the feeling that she can do better than the man she's with (and it's been proven she wasn't able to because all of her AP were sh-t men). That, to me, is lunacy.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

BoSlander said:


> I've always been in tip-top shape and people compliment me all the time about not looking/dressing my age. Even now, I get hit on by women and every female I know is trying really hard to get one of their friends to go out with me (I'm a catch). I get boners every morning, pull 700 watts on the Peloton every single day, make over 6 figures and like to live a fairly social life (restaurants, movies, vacations, etc). I have many qualities that 99.99999999999% of the females on this world would stab each other over. There is literally NOTHING wrong with me. I have everything going for me.
> 
> Now, the last dude she cheated on me, THAT is just comical: she's a 6 and was banging a George Costanza-lookalike. Not to mention two of the coworkers before him. It just wasn't about me, or her sexual pleasure, to cheaters it's always about the cheating, about the thrill. About the thrill of cheating and getting away with it.
> 
> ...


You can be the most handsome and sexy man on earth. And all women would die to get into your pants. But all this doesn't not matter. What matters is if YOUR gis find your the sexiest man and if SHE wants to get sexual with you. Most men find Angelina jolie very attractive and sexy. But I find her very gross and I couldn't kiss her even if you offer me a million dollars.

What the most tragic is that you wasted your money, resources, time and your sexuality on the woman who did not live you or at least did not desire you while you could have a lot of may be prettier and sexier girls who would have been very happy and appreciative of you.

I disagree the women is the source of sexual frustration or boredom. Men equally contribute to this. Read posts, men equally withhold sex, lack of romance, vanilla sex.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> People get married for many reasons beyond just sex.


And those reasons would be? 

I was initially attracted to my wife-to-be because she was the hottest girl had ever seen. She still is BTW after 6 decades together. 

We dated and the more time we spent together the more we wanted to be together. Our relationship progressed to the point we didn’t want to be apart anymore. It was a sexual bond and we wanted to enjoy that together for as long as we lived. Which we have. We could have been just friends without marrying. I cant imagine marrying and having kids if sex wasn’t the main driving force. The glue.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> And those reasons would be?
> 
> I was initially attracted to my wife-to-be because she was the hottest girl had ever seen. She still is BTW after 6 decades together.
> 
> We dated and the more time we spent together the more we wanted to be together. Our relationship progressed to the point we didn’t want to be apart anymore. It was a sexual bond and we wanted to enjoy that together for as long as we lived. Which we have. We could have been just friends without marrying. I cant imagine marrying and having kids if sex wasn’t the main driving force. The glue.


Are you kidding? I am very sexual person and value sex a lot but I did not chose my wife solely on sex. There are a bunch of qualities that are important: companionship, honesty, support, compatibility in values.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I think it is more complex. First, OP said she tried the same things with her husband she did with the AP but the husband was unenthusiastic and this killed her mood. I don't understand how you communicate to your partner to be enthusiastic about sex? How can I tell my wife I want her to enthusiastically give me a BJ if she treats it as a chore?





romantic_dreamer said:


> Are you kidding? I am very sexual person and value sex a lot but I did not chose my wife solely on sex. There are a bunch of qualities that are important: companionship, honesty, support, compatibility in values.


I give you, that. You are right in some regard and might be in others, but:

Then, why not divorce? 
If your sexlife is so bad on the one hand and you need it so much on the other, why not divorce?

Why kill the soul of the one person in the world that you vowed to love and cherish and who doesn't expect this kind of betrayal from the one he or she loves?
Why taking away from him or her the ability to trust others ever again properly and wholeheartedly again? 

THAT is what I don't understand. Chances to get caught are growing with every day and week. 
And if you are sexually unsatisfied you will continue cheating. 
You said so yourself in the analogy with the supermarket. 
Because if you are hungry you don't stop eating after the first meal, right? 

So, why not divorce? That might be bad, but hurting someone so deep by betraying all the other values you yourself mentioned - that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. 
You put in honesty for instance, but you say that an affair is understandable if sexual needs are not fullfilled. 
So for you the animalstic sexual pleasure from an affair (it has nothing to do with love, but as OP said reveling in sexuality) is more worth than honesty and companionship?
Now that is sad if I ever saw sadness. And I saw my fair share of it... 

Where is the satisfaction in killing someones soul over a good **** by being so dishonest, that you can't give them the common courtesy to make up their own mind? 
Most people are hanging in limbo for a good time and when finally finding out they are devasted. 

Why not going the high road and divorce beforehand? 

That is my only question and honestly I never gor an answer on this from anybody who even remotely showed understanding for cheaters.
How do you rationalise it to hurt someone so bad for a **** in the ass? 
And don't say the divorce is the outcome in both, so why bother. One is sad and not pretty. 
The other is intentionally and deeply hurting the one person (or when children are involved even more) you at one point loved enough to marry.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

sleeping_sandman said:


> I give you, that. You are right in some regard and might be in others, but:
> 
> Then, why not divorce?
> If your sexlife is so bad on the one hand and you need it so much on the other, why not divorce?
> ...


Why not to divorce, yeah? Let me give you a personal example.

I have been married for 25 years and I have very happy marriage to the woman I cherish, love, and desire. We are very compatible. she is perfect woman, compassionate, honest, supportive, empathetic, intelligent, wonderful wife and mother. We are rather sexual people and value sexual intimacy a lot in our marriage. For us and me specifically it is very critical that we both desire sex, open to it. I would never approach her for sex if she does not want it. It is also very important that we are not plain vanilla, I would never marry a woman who does not give BJ or does not swallow (sorry for TMI). 

Now imagine hypothetically that for some non medical reason she stops having sex with me or stops giving me oral or no longer wants to swallow. It would be devastating to me. But should I divorce a woman who gave me three children, has been supportive of me my entire live, has been my best friend, cheerleader and everything in between, who sacrificed a lot for me including moving across the globe to be with me at age of 21? If this really happened and my wife is no longer sexual and I meet another girl who is willing to give me what my own wife no longer can would an affair be worse than a divorce? I can tell you with 100% certainty that my wife would prefer me to have a sexual non emotional affair than to divorce her. Sometimes you are put in situation when every decision is bad and an affair while absolutely being bad may not be the absolute worse.


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## Brigit24 (2 mo ago)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I can tell you with 100% certainty that my wife would prefer me to have a sexual non emotional affair than to divorce her. Sometimes you are put in situation when every decision is bad and an affair while absolutely being bad may not be the absolute worse.


LOL. Whatever. At that point you would discuss an open marriage with your wife which is something that most ppl couldn't handle. 

One day you might not be able to perform and your wife might ask you for an open marriage. Wonder how you'll respond?


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Brigit24 said:


> LOL. Whatever. At that point you would discuss an open marriage with your wife which is something that most ppl couldn't handle.
> 
> One day you might not be able to perform and your wife might ask you for an open marriage. Wonder how you'll respond?


I personally have clear distinction between health related sexual problems and non health related ones. If sexual changes are due to health issues I am totally understandable. 

I am not supportive of an affair. I do consider an affair bad. But so is divorce. It is also devastating when you cannot connect sexually with your spouse. Sometimes every decision is bad. That's why it is so important to make sure you marry a person you are sexually compatible with, who shares your sexual kinks and is open and enthusiastic about sex as you are. Sex is not the only thing that is critical in marriage but it is irreplaceable one.


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## Yetidriver (Mar 18, 2020)

LoriD1974 said:


> What I find amusing about this thread and others about infidelity is the myriad of contributors that have never strayed from their marriage nor had their partner cheat on them but are somehow authorities on the subject. They interrogate the adulterers and demand answers yet repudiate ALL responses, why bother asking? Even more intriguing is the use of obscene, sexualized, lecherous language when attempting to vilify the adulterers, suddenly they are into dirty talk?? Just an observation.


I agree 100%. Just like many other forums, More than a few people seem to be here just to stir up the reality TV like drama. Too many of these threads turn into something sounding like Jerry Springer or Morton Downing Jr.


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## LoriD1974 (2 mo ago)

so_sweet said:


> I must have missed the post where OP said she tried the same things with her husband that she did with the AP but the husband was unenthusiastic and it killed the mood. Anyone know which post OP said this?
> 
> What I read in the OP was this:
> 
> ...





LoriD1974 said:


> We had been married for 10 years when my transgression occurred. I of course take full responsibility for my choice to stray from my marriage, I've never blamed my husband. I did mention on an earlier post that the "husbands stifling the wife's sexuality" question was one that occurred to me after my affair not before.
> 
> During my marriage pre-affair I was very vocal about what I felt I needed to be content in regards to sex and would say that I was open to most things in the bedroom. I was definitely not shy, timid, frigid and I sure as hell didn't deny or withhold from him experiences if he ever suggested any, the thing was he was just not forthcoming with suggestions, ideas, desires etc so our sex life stayed rather vanilla. On occasion I would try to incorporate new things into our sex life but he would then rarely or never ask nor suggest doing it again which probably left me wondering whether he actually enjoyed it. Basically i feel he thought of me as a mother, not as a sexual being with needs and desires of my own, I think he found it hard to switch from being the loving, caring, gentle husband into someone that wanted to ravish his wife. I don't feel that I ever thought "my husband is vanilla in bed so I'll find myself a young alpha stud that'll do really naughty things to me" if I did it was definitely in my subconscious.





LoriD1974 said:


> This could of course be the case for some but for me the thing was that everything sexual I did with my AP I had at one point in time done with my husband. The difference was that my AP "expressed" a deep desire and thirst for the sexual experiences and for me as a sexual woman in a way that my up to that point husband rarely did. He may well have had those feelings without openly expressing it and in turn I felt discontent and sadness for many years. My AP overall demeanor in regards to sex and the way he pursued me made it easy for me to enjoy a higher state of sexual abandon. A state of sexual abandon that I had been yearning to have in my marriage, I feel my husband had stifled my sexuality to some extent and in turn so did I.
> 
> Thank you for the many comments on this post it has been very insightful.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

@LoriD1974
It won't let me quote your post, I guess because it's just quotes itself, but thank-you for taking the time to point out those posts.

Although I don't think cheating on a spouse is ever the answer, with the bigger picture now clearer, I can understand your question, "do husbands unintentionally stifle their wives sexuality", a little better--as a question in general and not related to a spouse cheating. .

Well, I guess husbands can unintentionally do that, but I have to say communication, perhaps a lot of ongoing communication, would hopefully help such a situation. Or if a couple can't work it out themselves, perhaps some professional help like couples therapy.

I hope all is good in your marriage now.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Why not to divorce, yeah? Let me give you a personal example.
> 
> I have been married for 25 years and I have very happy marriage to the woman I cherish, love, and desire. We are very compatible. she is perfect woman, compassionate, honest, supportive, empathetic, intelligent, wonderful wife and mother. We are rather sexual people and value sexual intimacy a lot in our marriage. For us and me specifically it is very critical that we both desire sex, open to it. I would never approach her for sex if she does not want it. It is also very important that we are not plain vanilla, I would never marry a woman who does not give BJ or does not swallow (sorry for TMI).


There can never be too much info  maybe sometimes it i a bit unappropriate, but then, this is an adult forum, isn't it.
And thank you for answering my question even if your marriage is luckily in order as it seems to me and you are coming from a total hypothetical place. I have the same thing going and been married a bit longer than you.
But thenm y wife and I share a very particular fetish, that makes it hard to find an affair even if we wanted to. Even for a woman.
(I will not TMI it, simply because for the most part people will think of it as gross and nasty)
But I will say that I found out by sheer luck. I would never have thought that I will ever find another person like me. And the opposite of me. And with only 30% of our subgroup into it, I would have never thought to stumble on one by chance. But there she was... 

So now for the example part and I pull down your initial re-question into consideration:



romantic_dreamer said:


> Now imagine hypothetically that for some non medical reason she stops having sex with me or stops giving me oral or no longer wants to swallow. It would be devastating to me. But should I divorce a woman who gave me three children, has been supportive of me my entire live, has been my best friend, cheerleader and everything in between, who sacrificed a lot for me including moving across the globe to be with me at age of 21? If this really happened and my wife is no longer sexual and I meet another girl who is willing to give me what my own wife no longer can would an affair be worse than a divorce? I can tell you with 100% certainty that my wife would prefer me to have a sexual non emotional affair than to divorce her. Sometimes you are put in situation when every decision is bad and an affair while absolutely being bad may not be the absolute worse.


You ask why not divorce and lead an example.
I tell you why you should tell her you consider divorce or at least tell you consider an affair.
Simply because the other route ends up in the same divorce.
You only take a detour destroying the ability to trust and cherish in the one you profess to love.
The outcome is the same in 89% of the cases. You do know that R works in only 11% of cases over a period of 5 years? And these figures take ONS in consideration. Take them out and count only long term affairs and the percentage decreases to under 6%.
And you do not even have this route of R. Because you won't stop your affair. You yourself had the example with the supermarket. And you don't stop eating only because the supremarket manager (your wife) asks you to. And over time you will become sloppy and she will eventually find out.
That's why tell her you consider a divorce or affair is the propr thing to do.
Because you give her the chance to make up her mind and prepare before you go full force for the jugular.

A divorce is bad, yes
An affair is bad, yes.

What you and all supporters of affairs because of stifleing leave out of the picture is the difference of degree.

And that is what matters, the degree of hurt. Deep or soulcrushing. There is a difference.

You need to keep this in mind when telling that both are bad. The affair is always worse because it destroys the very core of what you vowed to do: In good days and in bad. Not in good times and in better....
Give her a chance to make an informed decision, not letting her find out by chance after months of selfdoubt. That is the difference of degree you always leave out.
When talking to her there will be tears and hurt, but also the certainty that you didn't betray her trust and loyalty so far.
When going in an affair you do just that to the one person you tell yourself you love.
And you would lie to her all the time, you have to, lie and break her trust and loyalty.
The only other way is to tell her beforehand.
Anything else will lead us to the afformentioned sentenced.
And you really call that love? I mean, really?
It is as simple as that.

Hypothetical:
What if you find out that she has a very particular fetish?
What if she agrees to your affair on terms that you in turn allow her the exact same.
What if that fetish goes against everything you hold close and dear and will be viewed by you with disgust. And I know you will. My wife and I have this fetish 🚿
Will you be able to love and cherish her, hours after you know she got through with her fetish and has done the deed? Kiss the very mouth that did...this? 
How does that thought make you feel, hypothetically?

And now take that one step further and reverse: If it not your wife that stops having sex, but you (only to play it out for us)?
Would you rather send her into an affair knowingly or would you be all joy and laughter if you happen to find out, because she didn't tell you upfront?

Thanks!


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

sleeping_sandman said:


> There can never be too much info  maybe sometimes it i a bit unappropriate, but then, this is an adult forum, isn't it.
> And thank you for answering my question even if your marriage is luckily in order as it seems to me and you are coming from a total hypothetical place. I have the same thing going and been married a bit longer than you.
> But thenm y wife and I share a very particular fetish, that makes it hard to find an affair even if we wanted to. Even for a woman.
> (I will not TMI it, simply because for the most part people will think of it as gross and nasty)
> ...


I think we are deviating from the original topic with discussion of affair vs divorce, which is worse and if a divorce would be better or more honest decision. What I am trying to point is that a divorce is a very bad, crushing path and it some cases, my personal marriage and family included would be less worse (I do not want to use word "better") than a certain kind of an affair especially if it kept discreet.

The original question was if husbands stifle their wives thus creating sexually unsatisfied wife and potential for an affair if the wife meets another man willing to satisfy her. I personally believe the answer is yes, and it does not take the guilt off the woman who goes with an affair and it equally applies to when the gender roles are reversed and it is a woman who stifles her husband. However this only a result of the core problem of sexual incompatibility in a marriage. Sexuality is what in our DNA, it is impossible to force to change it. You mentioned you had a fetish that you share with your spouse. It is great you have the spouse to share it with. I believe people when marrying or choosing a life long partner they put a blind eye on sexual incompatibility focusing instead on other qualities. Sooner or later these incompatibilities lead to sexual unsatisfaction. 

Or one of both partners force themselves to behave sexually more attractively to their partner in order to secure him or her (bait and switch). Eventually once they marry their partner they return to who they are naturally. I think one of these happened to the OP. She said the husband did do certain sexual things with her but was unenthusiastic about them. I really doubly he was enthusiastic about them before. So OP probably ignored it because the potential husband was a good man, provider, Dad, etc.

And the last possibility is that one partner looses attractiveness to another over time. The partner may worsen her or his appearance (gained weight, involved in drugs, alcoholism, started smoking, etc.). I also think it is hard for women to be sexually attracted to a man who is rude to her, puts her down, not to say puts his hands on her. 



sleeping_sandman said:


> And now take that one step further and reverse: If it not your wife that stops having sex, but you (only to play it out for us)?
> Would you rather send her into an affair knowingly or would you be all joy and laughter if you happen to find out, because she didn't tell you upfront?


It is very hard question for me to answer. I personally do not know what I would do in this case. I would probably let her go and suggest a divorce, but I am not sure she would want it. Again, it is a situation when there is no good solution.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I think we are deviating from the original topic with discussion of affair vs divorce, which is worse and if a divorce would be better or more honest decision. What I am trying to point is that a divorce is a very bad, crushing path and it some cases, my personal marriage and family included would be less worse (I do not want to use word "better") than a certain kind of an affair especially if it kept discreet.
> 
> The original question was if husbands stifle their wives thus creating sexually unsatisfied wife and potential for an affair if the wife meets another man willing to satisfy her. I personally believe the answer is yes, and it does not take the guilt off the woman who goes with an affair and it equally applies to when the gender roles are reversed and it is a woman who stifles her husband. However this only a result of the core problem of sexual incompatibility in a marriage. Sexuality is what in our DNA, it is impossible to force to change it. You mentioned you had a fetish that you share with your spouse. It is great you have the spouse to share it with. I believe people when marrying or choosing a life long partner they put a blind eye on sexual incompatibility focusing instead on other qualities. Sooner or later these incompatibilities lead to sexual unsatisfaction.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the honest answer and as you said we shouldn't derail this any further. 
Thanks from one ****ing lucky husband to another.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I think we are deviating from the original topic with discussion of affair vs divorce, which is worse and if a divorce would be better or more honest decision. What I am trying to point is that a divorce is a very bad, crushing path and it some cases, my personal marriage and family included would be less worse (I do not want to use word "better") than a certain kind of an affair especially if it kept discreet.
> 
> The original question was if husbands stifle their wives thus creating sexually unsatisfied wife and potential for an affair if the wife meets another man willing to satisfy her. I personally believe the answer is yes, and it does not take the guilt off the woman who goes with an affair and it equally applies to when the gender roles are reversed and it is a woman who stifles her husband. However this only a result of the core problem of sexual incompatibility in a marriage. Sexuality is what in our DNA, it is impossible to force to change it. You mentioned you had a fetish that you share with your spouse. It is great you have the spouse to share it with. I believe people when marrying or choosing a life long partner they put a blind eye on sexual incompatibility focusing instead on other qualities. Sooner or later these incompatibilities lead to sexual unsatisfaction.
> 
> ...


I think this is a good summary of sexual compatibility, or lack of, and its potential effects. One thing though, is it is nearly impossible to be 100% aligned, so where does it cross the line into stifling? Even you aren't 100% aligned with your wife. One of your first posts here was about your disappointment that your wife never initiates sex. That your sex life "has become routine for many, many years." You can't get her to be open about her desires. She won't do anything without your prodding. That sounds like she is stifling your sexuality, your desires. You want a wife that takes the initiative in your sex life, at least some of the time. You want a wife that helps keep things new and exciting, but you weren't getting these things. Is your marriage at risk for cheating? I think your assertion here does imply your marriage has a cheating risk factor present. 

Or, maybe you are somehow unintentionally stifling her. In a new relationship, or God forbid, in an affair she could be a completely different person. She might tell her AP exactly what she wants and shows up with sexy lingerie under her clothes. Was that really you stifling her? It would mean she is hotter for her AP than you, but was it because you stifled her sexuality? I think it is more likely to be that the new relationship energy and naughty factor of cheating is the source of the change? That is something you could never provide after being married for a couple decades, so how would that be stifling or an incompatibility?


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think this is a good summary of sexual compatibility, or lack of, and its potential effects. One thing though, is it is nearly impossible to be 100% aligned, so where does it cross the line into stifling? Even you aren't 100% aligned with your wife. One of your first posts here was about your disappointment that your wife never initiates sex. That your sex life "has become routine for many, many years." You can't get her to be open about her desires. She won't do anything without your prodding. That sounds like she is stifling your sexuality, your desires. You want a wife that takes the initiative in your sex life, at least some of the time. You want a wife that helps keep things new and exciting, but you weren't getting these things. Is your marriage at risk for cheating? I think your assertion here does imply your marriage has a cheating risk factor present.


100% agree that it is not possible to get 100% compatible in anything including sex. Each of us makes that decision what we can tolerate and accept in our partner and what we can't. Yes, there are things my wife does not do I wish she did. She does not have sexual fantasies or she does not share them with me, she does not really like me giving her oral which I like a lot. But I do not consider she stifles me because she does not like oral and I will certainly not seek an affair with a woman who does like it. However, I honestly can tell you if she refuses to give me a BJ we would be incompatible and who know what I would do in this case.



BigDaddyNY said:


> Or, maybe you are somehow unintentionally stifling her.


I do not see how I unintentionally stifle my wife? I never refuse to do anything she wanted. I told her many times I would do anything, I mean anything she wants me to do.



BigDaddyNY said:


> I think it is more likely to be that the new relationship energy and naughty factor of cheating is the source of the change? That is something you could never provide after being married for a couple decades, so how would that be stifling or an incompatibility?


I personally believe love and sexual attraction are like a flame that constantly need feeding. No matter how burning it is initially with additional file it will die. Many people get comfortable and just accept that their partner is theirs, they married to him or her and there is no nee to do extra effort.

I can tell you in our 25+ years marriage we are very passionate towards each other. We kiss, hug, we flirt with each other every single day. I tell her how beautiful, how sexy she is and how lucky I am to have her and **** her later tonight. All of this I say absolutely sincere, not just to get some action. and it expands beyond sex. I get up 6 am in the morning and cook her fresh lunch and then pack it every day she goes to the office while she is taking shower. I bring her breakfast in bad almost every weekend. I bring her flowers, chocolate just because, not only for events. I give her presents worth thousands of dollars. We spend all our time together, we take a walk holding hands almost daily. She knows how much I love and desire her and that's why I am the only man for her in this world even after 26 years together and 25 years being married.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I do not see how I unintentionally stifle my wife? I never refuse to do anything she wanted. I told her many times I would do anything, I mean anything she wants me to do.


Of course you wouldn't see how you stifle her. That is what makes it unintentional. You wouldn't know you were stifling her until you found out about all the things she did with her AP that she didn't do with you. That seems like what happened with OP's husband. He never told her he wouldn't do something, or said he didn't like something new she tried. He just didn't express how much he loved it in the same way the AP did. You don't know what you don't know. Unless a spouse has being asking for something over and over and getting no response or half hearted responses I don't think it can be argued that they are stifling their spouse's sexuality just because they end up doing it with an AP or their next partner. 



romantic_dreamer said:


> I can tell you in our 25+ years marriage we are very passionate towards each other. We kiss, hug, we flirt with each other every single day. I tell her how beautiful, how sexy she is and how lucky I am to have her and **** her later tonight. All of this I say absolutely sincere, not just to get some action. and it expands beyond sex. I get up 6 am in the morning and cook her fresh lunch and then pack it every day she goes to the office while she is taking shower. I bring her breakfast in bad almost every weekend. I bring her flowers, chocolate just because, not only for events. I give her presents worth thousands of dollars. We spend all our time together, we take a walk holding hands almost daily. She knows how much I love and desire her and that's why I am the only man for her in this world even after 26 years together and 25 years being married.


Those are all awesome ways to engage with your spouse. We do all that and then some. For example, we always shower together, I haven't washed myself in years  The exception is when I'm traveling for work

Our relationship makes me confident that infidelity is highly unlikely, but I will never say never. That is when you start to take your spouse for granted. I am in no way alone in this line of thought. I would expect that nearly all spouses do not expect their spouse to cheat, yet they do. I bet they are also equally surprised to find out they did things with their AP that they said they never did or tried and will never do again, yet they do.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Of course you wouldn't see how you stifle her. That is what makes it unintentional. You wouldn't know you were stifling her until you found out about all the things she did with her AP that she didn't do with you. That seems like what happened with OP's husband. He never told her he wouldn't do something, or said he didn't like something new she tried. He just didn't express how much he loved it in the same way the AP did. You don't know what you don't know. Unless a spouse has being asking for something over and over and getting no response or half hearted responses I don't think it can be argued that they are stifling their spouse's sexuality just because they end up doing it with an AP or their next partner.


No, I do not see it is the same. I am engaged with her sexually, I listen to her, I make her pleasure the centerpiece of our sexual intimacy. I asked her many time what she wants and if she likes what we are doing. I make sure she gets two orgasms every time. So I do not see how I stifle her at all. What I cannot provide obviously is a novelty of new relationship or sexual encounter. She knows my body inside and out and we had sex zillion times. If is is what woman wants obviously husband cannot provide this. But then it is pure cheating, it is not stifling.



BigDaddyNY said:


> Our relationship makes me confident that infidelity is highly unlikely, but I will never say never. That is when you start to take your spouse for granted. I am in no way alone in this line of thought. I would expect that nearly all spouses do not expect their spouse to cheat, yet they do. I bet they are also equally surprised to find out they did things with their AP that they said they never did or tried and will never do again, yet they do.


There are numerous reasons why people cheat. Some of them can be avoided and some of them cannot be. Some people are paralogical cheaters, they need new body, they get tired of existing one. There is nothing any partner can do. But I personally believe such people ore minority. Majority cheat because they do not get something from their partner. Yes, sometimes these problems can be resolved via communication. But it is not always the case and it is not always easy to bring up what you are dissatisfied with. As I mentioned before how the OP could have brought up with her husband she did not like he was not enthusiastic about certain sexual acts? How can you ask your partner to be enthusiastic? It is either there or not.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> No, I do not see it is the same. I am engaged with her sexually, I listen to her, I make her pleasure the centerpiece of our sexual intimacy. I asked her many time what she wants and if she likes what we are doing. I make sure she gets two orgasms every time. So I do not see how I stifle her at all. What I cannot provide obviously is a novelty of new relationship or sexual encounter. She knows my body inside and out and we had sex zillion times. If is is what woman wants obviously husband cannot provide this. But then it is pure cheating, it is not stifling.
> 
> 
> There are numerous reasons why people cheat. Some of them can be avoided and some of them cannot be. Some people are paralogical cheaters, they need new body, they get tired of existing one. There is nothing any partner can do. But I personally believe such people ore minority. Majority cheat because they do not get something from their partner. Yes, sometimes these problems can be resolved via communication. But it is not always the case and it is not always easy to bring up what you are dissatisfied with. As I mentioned before how the OP could have brought up with her husband she did not like he was not enthusiastic about certain sexual acts? How can you ask your partner to be enthusiastic? It is either there or not.


What I can't get past is that I bet if the husband were magically to become the AP that the sexual abandon she wants to revel in would be there. The relationship between a husband and wife is fundamentally different than the relationship between APs. The affair isn't burdened by any responsibilities. 

I think you can talk to your partner about being enthusiastic. It is just another topic. It could be argued that spontaneity is either there or not too, but haven't you talked to your wife about that?


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> What I can't get past is that I bet if the husband were magically to become the AP that the sexual abandon she wants to revel in would be there. The relationship between a husband and wife is fundamentally different than the relationship between APs. The affair isn't burdened by any responsibilities.
> 
> I think you can talk to your partner about being enthusiastic. It is just another topic. It could be argued that spontaneity is either there or not too, but haven't you talked to your wife about that?


I am really surprised how you do not see the difference between the AP and her husband. She says clearly she tried the same things with both but the AP was enthusiastic while her husband was indifferent. This is the key and very important key. I would be very upset if my wife would be indifferent giving me BJ. It would kill the whole mood.

No, I cannot really see how you can take to your partner about being enthusiastic. You really cannot. 

You can paint it any way you want but the fundamental point here is that she got from her AP what she didn't get from her husband. And this made her feel her husband stifled her. The same about spountenouty. And it has little to do that the AP was not her husband and did not have any obligation to her.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

romantic_dreamer said:


> You can be the most handsome and sexy man on earth. And all women would die to get into your pants. But all this doesn't not matter. What matters is if YOUR gis find your the sexiest man and if SHE wants to get sexual with you. Most men find Angelina jolie very attractive and sexy. But I find her very gross and I couldn't kiss her even if you offer me a million dollars.
> 
> What the most tragic is that you wasted your money, resources, time and your sexuality on the woman who did not live you or at least did not desire you while you could have a lot of may be prettier and sexier girls who would have been very happy and appreciative of you.
> 
> I disagree the women is the source of sexual frustration or boredom. Men equally contribute to this. Read posts, men equally withhold sex, lack of romance, vanilla sex.


No one is refuting the fact that she (somehow) fell out of love with me... what I am informing you of (which you seem to take as an argument) is that, *from the beginning*, I fulfilled my end of the bargain, which was to provide security and resources. She, on the other hand, lied and falsified information that, had she divulged from the beginning, we would not be discussing right now (namely her end of the bargain: youth and virginity). Had I known that she was a serial cheater, I would've broken things off immediately and FOR SURE I wouldn't have proposed to her and end up in the situation that I'm in. 

She did not fall out of love with me, she is a woman who 1) loved and loves díck, 2) lots of it and 3) from different men. THAT is what derailed the relationship.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BigDaddyNY said:


> What I can't get past is that I bet if the husband were magically to become the AP that the sexual abandon she wants to revel in would be there. The relationship between a husband and wife is fundamentally different than the relationship between APs. The affair isn't burdened by any responsibilities.
> 
> I think you can talk to your partner about being enthusiastic. It is just another topic. It could be argued that spontaneity is either there or not too, but haven't you talked to your wife about that?


Yeah. The affair dynamic is totally different from the marriage dynamic and I was trying to get Lori to understand that fact.

I do think there is something real about the issue she brought up but the affair muddied the Waters rather than made things clear.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I am really surprised how you do not see the difference between the AP and her husband. She says clearly she tried the same things with both but the AP was enthusiastic while her husband was indifferent. This is the key and very important key. I would be very upset if my wife would be indifferent giving me BJ. It would kill the whole mood.
> 
> No, I cannot really see how you can take to your partner about being enthusiastic. You really cannot.
> 
> You can paint it any way you want but the fundamental point here is that she got from her AP what she didn't get from her husband. And this made her feel her husband stifled her. The same about spountenouty. And it has little to do that the AP was not her husband and did not have any obligation to her.


Actually, she said the difference was that her AP expressed his desire, while her husband did not. Enthusiasm was never mentioned by her She listed about 5 different "reasons" that lead to her cheating and only one was controllable by her husband. He didn't express his desire for her. I believe she would have cheated even if he had. 

I think this whole stifling nonsense is just typical re-writing of history that cheaters tend to do. Unless she assumed that the willingness to cheat on your spouse and willingness to have sex with another man's wife meant he would afford her sexual abandon, she had zero clue that her AP would be any better than her husband. I think it is nothing more than it being someone different. We are all likely to behave differently with every sexual partner.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Actually, she said the difference was that her AP expressed his desire, while her husband did not. Enthusiasm was never mentioned by her She listed about 5 different "reasons" that lead to her cheating and only one was controllable by her husband. He didn't express his desire for her. I believe she would have cheated even if he had.
> 
> I think this whole stifling nonsense is just typical re-writing of history that cheaters tend to do. Unless she assumed that the willingness to cheat on your spouse and willingness to have sex with another man's wife meant he would afford her sexual abandon, she had zero clue that her AP would be any better than her husband. I think it is nothing more than it being someone different. We are all likely to behave differently with every sexual partner.


No, she was rather clear about the difference between the AP and the husband and there is nothing unbelievable or nonsense in what she is saying. 

Obviously an affair is wrong and her affair was as wrong and cannot be justified by anything. I don't think she denies this. 

No, she didn't know if AP would be better or not. What she found in the AP is a man who openly desired her. She didn't see this desire in her husband's eyes or actions.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> No, she was rather clear about the difference between the AP and the husband and there is nothing unbelievable or nonsense in what she is saying.
> 
> Obviously an affair is wrong and her affair was as wrong and cannot be justified by anything. I don't think she denies this.
> 
> No, she didn't know if AP would be better or not. What she found in the AP is a man who openly desired her. She didn't see this desire in her husband's eyes or actions.


Below is what she had to say. 

Of course the AP had a different demeanor and approach to the cheating wife. He only wanted/needed sex from her. She wasn't really being stifled by her husband. At least not that she knew of, until she slept with someone else. I still think this is revisionist history in full effect. 



LoriD1974 said:


> This could of course be the case for some but for me the thing was that everything sexual I did with my AP I had at one point in time done with my husband. The difference was that my AP "expressed" a deep desire and thirst for the sexual experiences and for me as a sexual woman in a way that my up to that point husband rarely did. He may well have had those feelings without openly expressing it and in turn I felt discontent and sadness for many years. My AP overall demeanor in regards to sex and the way he pursued me made it easy for me to enjoy a higher state of sexual abandon. A state of sexual abandon that I had been yearning to have in my marriage, I feel my husband had stifled my sexuality to some extent and in turn so did I.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> Yeah. The affair dynamic is totally different from the marriage dynamic and I was trying to get Lori to understand that fact.
> 
> I do think there is something real about the issue she brought up but the affair muddied the Waters rather than made things clear.


yeah talking about affair sex and marriage is like taking about auto repairs and stock market trends, they are two completely different things.

I wish the OP had not even mentioned her affair because the topic was worthy of its own discussion and moment she mentioned the affair, that is what people focused on.

I think people were jumping to the conclusion that she was trying to blame her affair on her H trying to stifle her sexuality.

I have not gone back and read through all of her posts again, but I do not believe that was her intent nor was her affair necessarily even germane to the topic of spouses repressing their partner’s sexuality.

I think she originally made reference in passing that she and her AP engaged in things that her H really hadn’t actually pursued but that she likely would have done with him, had he had the interest.

IMHO she asked about the topic of people stifling their partner’s sexuality AND she mentioned she had a previous affair and did things with her AP that her H did not really pursue.

i don’t think she was actually trying to tie her affair in with the concept of people stifling their partner and I do not think she was trying to blame her affair on that.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Below is what she had to say.





BigDaddyNY said:


> LoriD1974 said:
> This could of course be the case for some but for me the thing was that everything sexual I did with my AP I had at one point in time done with my husband. The difference was that my AP "expressed" a deep desire and thirst for the sexual experiences and for me as a sexual woman in a way that my up to that point husband rarely did. He may well have had those feelings without openly expressing it and in turn I felt discontent and sadness for many years. My AP overall demeanor in regards to sex and the way he pursued me made it easy for me to enjoy a higher state of sexual abandon. A state of sexual abandon that I had been yearning to have in my marriage, I feel my husband had stifled my sexuality to some extent and in turn so did I.


Did you read what she said? It is very clear what the difference is between her AP and her husband, It does not matter if AP wanted her only for sex. He was unsatisfied "feeling felt discontent and sadness for many years". ands then she met the man who gave her what she craved for. He gave her what husband did not though he could. and this way she felt her husband stifled her.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> yeah talking about affair sex and marriage is like taking about auto repairs and stock market trends, they are two completely different things.
> 
> I wish the OP had not even mentioned her affair because the topic was worthy of its own discussion and moment she mentioned the affair, that is what people focused on.
> 
> ...


She had a valid point but she was absolutely referencing her affair to prove her point which invalidated it.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> yeah talking about affair sex and marriage is like taking about auto repairs and stock market trends, they are two completely different things.
> 
> I wish the OP had not even mentioned her affair because the topic was worthy of its own discussion and moment she mentioned the affair, that is what people focused on.
> 
> ...


I do agree that her sexuality supposedly being stifled wasn't the reason she cheated. She just observed that she was more wild in the sack with her AP. Cheating or starting a new relationship is the only way someone would experience this phenomena. I don't think it has anything to do with actually being stifled by her husband. 

The reality is that in every sexual relationship there is probably one partner that would do certain acts that the other won't do or wouldn't think to do. To have 100% alignment has to be extremely rare and total dumb luck. Every time you experience a new lover there will probably be a different menu of sexual activities. When that new lover is an AP the likelihood of more wild sex has to be higher. You just can't compete with NRE and the naughty factor in a affair. The whole relationship revolves around sex and nothing else. The new sexual abandon isn't caused by the husband stifling her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> She had a valid point but she was absolutely referencing her affair to prove her point which invalidated it.


indont think it invalidated it. We all use examples from our past as reference points.

I think her’s was just an example that triggers people or at least makes them very uncomfortable.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I do agree that her sexuality supposedly being stifled wasn't the reason she cheated. She just observed that she was more wild in the sack with her AP. Cheating or starting a new relationship is the only way someone would experience this phenomena. I don't think it has anything to do with actually being stifled by her husband.
> 
> The reality is that in every sexual relationship there is probably one partner that would do certain acts that the other won't do or wouldn't think to do. To have 100% alignment has to be extremely rare and total dumb luck. Every time you experience a new lover there will probably be a different menu of sexual activities. When that new lover is an AP the likelihood of more wild sex has to be higher. You just can't compete with NRE and the naughty factor in a affair. The whole relationship revolves around sex and nothing else. The new sexual abandon isn't caused by the husband stifling her.


agreed.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> indont think it invalidated it. We all use examples from our past as reference points.
> 
> I think her’s was just an example that triggers people or at least makes them very uncomfortable.


It didn't trigger me at all. I just happen to know that you can't really reference an AP as a good foundational comparison to a spouse.

An ex LTR? Absolutely.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

While I focused on the affair part, I think that OP's honesty is insightful. I think what isn't being underscored enough throughout the thread, is how feeling ''stifled'' might make a wife or husband feel unwanted, and unappreciated. Sometimes, we forget that how we express sex, and what we enjoy about it, differs from person to person. Even with men on here in 'dead bedrooms,' they feel inadequate in some way, even though their wives may shower them with praise, and love in other ways.

Simply being told that he desires me, is something I like to hear from my husband. Not always that it will lead to sex, for me, anyway. My love language is words, and his is sex touch, but we understand each other, and maybe that's what it's all about. Becoming bilingual. lol


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