# Need Some Advice



## Shovel (Dec 21, 2016)

Hi,

I don’t know where to start. I thought I was a well adapted, strong minded guy 42 year old, but I’m beginning to doubt that a lot. 

About 6-8 weeks ago (seems like months) my wife sat with me at the table and said she was unhappy and we were not working out. I asked her if she wanted to try and she said yes. (The past 2 years this happened a couple times). I promised to make things change like I did before. I actually do try to change but she doesn’t help anything. I try to come up with ideas to keep us going, she never did. I try to snuggle more with her – she says she doesn’t like that. I try to kiss her more, I just get a peck back. I try for a few weeks, and I get frustrated and go back to normal. (To go back to how it started I think it’s a combination of money Struggles, ED(I take Cialis but she hates that we cannot be spontaneous), she hates where we live (my hometown) and some neglect on my part (BUT she made it really difficult to improve on it as she was not willing to change herself)). Are far as getting along, we don’t fight really, and she says we are best friends. I do 90% of the house work (I work from home and she travels 2 hours each day (1 hour each way), I do all the cooking and we share the parenting – but I spend more time with the kids, especially the youngest. She has no complaints there, I don’t want to brag but I cannot see her getting a better situation for help around the house unless the next man is rich and hires a housecleaner. 

Two days later our youngest daughter is going away for the night and our oldest daughter (11 & 15) – this never happens so I think great we get a night alone in the house. She wakes up that day and tells me she needs to think and she is going to her hometown (3 hours away). She gets mad if I try to keep her home, or even suggest it, so I said fine. She goes out a couple times that weekend with friends but does not drink much. When I try to call her she gets all defensive even if I just ask what she is doing. She comes home, we fool around a bit – I did not take a Cialis because it happened last minute, but we everything but that. The next weekend she goes out in a town close by with her friend (she has done this twice in 11 years). I didn’t like it, but again, let her have her freedom. The next weekend she goes back to her hometown again. She goes out again one of the nights, I didn’t call her much because of last time. She called me a few times. She comes home, things are distant. One week we had friends come here so she was home.

Then the week after she went out with her friend in town again. I couldn’t stand the thought of another night sitting there waiting for her to call, so I went to my friends place and drank (didn’t go out). I come home early the next morning, and she gets home about 1pm. She calls me in the room and says she got something bad to tell me that she did. She kissed a guy, but that was it. A stranger at the bar. It bothered me and mad me mad but I held it back because I wanted to make our marriage work, and it could be worst. So she tells me it woke her up and she realized where she wanted to be – with me and the kids. It felt so good, she was honest with me, it bothered her so bad that she had to tell me. And we kissed and made out for the next two evenings (she was on her periods so that was it). Then the third day she changed again. Back to normal but worst. A day or two later she said that she just didn’t kiss that guy she made out and exchanged numbers. But that night when he called her, she was crying and said she was married and blocked him on her phone. 

Anyway to sum up the rest I’ve spent the last two weeks in pure hell. She hardly talks to me. She now says she doesn’t want to work on it as there is nothing there. I convinced her to try couples counseling, we had one session, but she said she gave up. She says it. It is not going to work if she won't try at all. One thing I’m worried about is that she has depression, or a mid-life crisis. She had depression before, was on 1.5 pills per day and cut them back a year or so ago to 1. This is going to break us financially (only way we can do it is if we both declare bankruptcy), its going to ruin our kids childhood and I think I’m already in a depression so its going to affect me too. I sleep about 4 hours per night (always got 8 hours easily if the time was available), lost 19 lbs in 2 weeks (can’t eat), and of the 20 hours I’m awake I cry about 5 of them. I’ve never been a cryer. I just want understand how she can’t try for the kids and for our relationship and family. I know she has issues, I really think its depression. Why else would she be so cruel and selfish? What if it is depression and a few months later she regrets it – then we went through all this hell and ruined all our lives without trying. 

A couple times I thought I seen a light. We were lying in bed the other day and the youngest one came in and asked something and what we were doing and when she left she cried. She said I’m sorry I’m being selfish, but then was back to the same ways 5 minutes later. After the counseling session, she started crying and said she made her realize that it was all her fault. I said its not all your fault, we both played a part in what happened, but your not willing to try and fix it. The Therapist even said she seen people fall back in love again. For me, I’ve offered all I can. I tried something spontaneous (dressed up like a cop), I bought her flowers, I give her some space (I’m probably not doing enough here but that’s what started all this – too much space, so it worries me as I see her drift off more and more each day, I tell her how beautiful she is, I try soft caresses. Even though she is hesitant I insist on a kiss and hug before bed – I want to keep a little connection, and I won’t move out of the bed yet. I don’t bother her but I’m there. I make sure I slip in I love you a time or two a day, even if she don’t. I offered to move with her once the school year is done (she does not want to interrupt that anyway), I offered to move back to her hometown. It is a little costly but I offered to take Cialis Daily so we can get our sex life back on track (by the way I don’t mind doing oral but she says that’s not “connecting”. When we first met 15 years ago she complained because I didn’t do it enough). 

I’m not sure if she is backing out but I think she decided to pause Marriage counselling and try one on one counselling after the Holidays. I think that might be an idea - I’m hoping they can make her realize that she is depressed (if that’s what it is). If I could just get a little buy in from her to try we might stand a chance, because I’m willing to try anything. What if it is depression or a mid-life crisis and a few months later she regrets it – then we went through all this hell and ruined all our lives without trying. And If I get over her I don’t know that I would be willing to take her back. 

So I’m confused, sad, angry, mad, depressed all at the same time. I want to make it work, and I’m willing to do anything, BUT I also know it looks like a 99% chance our marriage is over so I need to try to prepare myself (mentally and legally). Here is it almost Christmas and I’m so down and depressed, I’m afraid we are ruining the kids Christmas, but it’s all I can think about. 

Does anyone have any suggestions:
1) How do I keep my wife and get her happy and to love me again (I want to try but in the end if she can’t be happy, I don’t want her to stay with me miserable). 
2) They say to give her the space she needs. How do I do that and not go crazy thinking that its getting worst or wondering what she is thinking about while she is lying in bed.
3) After she made out with that guy how do I trust her to go out with friends? I can’t expect her to stay home all the time but if we stay together I’m going to worry all the time (although it is a little comfort that she told me). Movies is fine but drinking heavily its going to be hard. 
4) While trying to do all the above how do I prepare myself for the worst case scenario? Because at this point its strongly leaning that way even though I’ve offered to do anything under the sun to change and help.
5) What can I do to stop thinking about this at least for a few hours a day, and cut back on crying and try not to go insane?
6) She is bound and determined that she is taking the kids if she leaves. This has been their home, they goto school here. I think if one or both want to stay (I’m sure the youngest will want to stay), I think they should. One thing I’m not worried about is my ability to look after a house with them in it. Is it just me, but it seems extremely selfish to make them move with her out of their home, if I’m still in it and would love for either or both to stay with me. 

Any help would be appreciated!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Well, it could be worse. Actually it almost certainly IS worse as she probably has had sex with that man. Who may be a stranger or not. 

Get STD tests done and set up a polygraph for her.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

1. After all of this recent stuff she's put you through: have you thought about the possibility that maybe the best option is to split up? Sure, you're her husband, but she isn't at all interested in 'therapy' with you.

2. There's space and then there's going out every weekend overnight. What the heck does she think she's trying to pull on you? That's not space. She wants to be single.

3. YOU DON'T TRUST HER. If she's going out drinking hours away with her friends overnight (assuming she's even with a friend, and not with a dude), she's on the prowl. 'Kissing' a guy my keister. She probably went further than that.

4. You can try checking out the 'considering divorce' forum and ask away

5. I wish I had better advice to help you with this part.

6. You might have to include this with the considering divorce forum. Custody battles suck, from what I hear.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

Your wife needs to find happiness within herself, it is not your job to provide her full happiness.

She is being selfish, I think she had sex with the guy too, and could still be seeing him on these all nights of going out with a friend. She is trying to hold on to you as plan B if things don;t work out with this other guy. You need to put your foot down there is needing space and needing space, she is working you.

If she is depressed then she needs to get help, but I feel it is more guilt than depressed. You also forgave her to easily when she made out with that guy, you should have made her work for your forgiveness and demanded full transparency.

1. She needs to get help.
2. You need to give her boundaries Ie all night partying, she is a wife and mother needs to act like it.
3. You need to see a therapist to help you get through this.
4. She needs to tell you the whole truth of what happened and not trickle truth.
5. You need to check cell phone records.
6. Put a VAR in her car.
7. Start protecting your assets, in case the marriage ends.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Shovel is a perfect Haag name because I hate to say it but you are be snowed big time....you expose this to everyone....she cheated and then try's to blame you....I would and watch her start to really think what she is doing...


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

She is crying constantly because she feels guilty for the affair she is having, OP. But she doesn't feel guilty enough to end it. The high keeps pulling her back in. Just re-read what you wrote about her going back to her hometown so frequently for girl's night out and her recent behaviour change and tell me if that doesn't stink of affair.

She minimised when she said they only kissed. All cheaters do that. They will not admit the full extent of their betrayal because then they are faced with what horrible people they are. As the saying goes, the truth hurts.

You should get her back on the pills. From reading your post I get that the affair started after she went off the medication. I've heard that medication really helps the depressed and it can get her out of the funk that she is in. Maybe consider a new therapist. I am assuming you want to save this marriage and not divorce.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*If this union is to be saved, both of you must readily opt for intensive MC!

Something is inherently wrong with a married woman who chooses to make out with a stranger from a bar visit, and then willingly gives him her telephone number!

Does it even remotely bother you, that she willingly and with aforethought, broke the major tenant of her marital vows to you?*


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Shovel said:


> 1) How do I keep my wife and get her happy and to love me again (I want to try but in the end if she can’t be happy, I don’t want her to stay with me miserable).


Counselling. Get an expert to tease out the issues and get you guys communicating. There's nothing YOU can do alone. Marriage need two people pulling their weight to succeed; they are not like a group project where other people can pick up the work if one of their team slacks off. It sounds like it's on her to understand why she's unhappy and decide what she's going to do about it. All you can decide is how long you're willing to wait around.



Shovel said:


> 2) They say to give her the space she needs. How do I do that and not go crazy thinking that its getting worst or wondering what she is thinking about while she is lying in bed.


It's almost cliché but when someone says they need space, or a trial separation, it's almost always to go test drive another lover and decide between them and you. Don't give her space. Tell her she's either in the marriage fully, or to leave permanently. Space is BS. If she can't decide after a couple of days, she's obviously not choosing to make you and the marriage her priority.



Shovel said:


> 3) After she made out with that guy how do I trust her to go out with friends? I can’t expect her to stay home all the time but if we stay together I’m going to worry all the time (although it is a little comfort that she told me). Movies is fine but drinking heavily its going to be hard.


Tell her that she's proven her judgment is poor when drinking, and that she should be clear-headed while she contemplates her future, with or without you. If she doesn't agree to cut out the drinking, again, that tells you her priorities in a way her words aren't right now. 



Shovel said:


> 4) While trying to do all the above how do I prepare myself for the worst case scenario? Because at this point its strongly leaning that way even though I’ve offered to do anything under the sun to change and help.


You prepare for the worst case scenario by pretending to be single for now. Eat healthy, get exercise, focus on being a good dad to your children, get lots accomplished with your career. Plan your future as though she had died.

Also, offering to do anything under the sun to change reeks of desperation. Just focus on being the best version of yourself you can be, and see if she reacts. This is called the 180, by the way, if you want to look up more information.



Shovel said:


> 5) What can I do to stop thinking about this at least for a few hours a day, and cut back on crying and try not to go insane?


It's hard. Exercise helps, get the blood flowing, and endorphins moving. See your doctor if you think a sleep aid might help. Seek counselling. Talk to a buddy who's been there. Consult a lawyer or two to see what legal steps you might have to do if the worst case scenario comes to pass. Part of the problem is lack of knowledge and feeling out of control. The best way to get control of your life back is to understand what your options are in each possible scenario. You can't control you wife though, you can only control you. Having a plan for each of her possible actions helps you react with sense.



Shovel said:


> 6) She is bound and determined that she is taking the kids if she leaves. This has been their home, they goto school here. I think if one or both want to stay (I’m sure the youngest will want to stay), I think they should. One thing I’m not worried about is my ability to look after a house with them in it. Is it just me, but it seems extremely selfish to make them move with her out of their home, if I’m still in it and would love for either or both to stay with me.


So she's treating the children like her property, they automatically follow her wherever she ends up? Yeah, no, that's not how it works. Your focus should be to make sure they handle any transitions in the best possible way, which is usually with the least disruption. As noted above, seeing a lawyer will help you understand your options, and how to react. She is being incredibly selfish, yes. Which does make infidelity seem more likely, as people who cheat tend to manifest more selfishness and entitlement in other facets of their lives.

Good luck to you. Seek knowledge. Glad you found us.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Dude, she ****ed some other guy and she feels guilt and doesn't want to lose her life with her kids. I am sure she doesn't have respect for you since you have ED problems and take care of the house (hence the best friends comment). I feel for you man. You are in a not fair situation. Not sure what causes your ED, but it appears to be a major thing to her.

Gtfo


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Herschel said:


> Dude, she ****ed some other guy and she feels guilt and doesn't want to lose her life with her kids. I am sure she doesn't have respect for you since you have ED problems and take care of the house (hence the best friends comment). I feel for you man. You are in a not fair situation. Not sure what causes your ED, but it appears to be a major thing to her.
> 
> Gtfo


Yet we have wives like Affaircare and Heartbroken50 who look after their sick husbands and male TAM members who look after sick wives and then we have Shovel's wife who reacts to her husband's poor health by reaching out for the comfort of another man's sex organs.

She is pathetic.


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## Shovel (Dec 21, 2016)

Me Again, Reading your comments - thanks they are appreciated and enlightening, keep them coming. I see most of all of you think that she cheated. Maybe I'm being stupid, but I do know for sure that she was on her menstrual cycle that weekend. I know that does not mean that more could not have happened than what she said - believe me I have thought about that one. Originally I thought why would she tell me anything if she was still going to lie but everything you said makes sense. Since this incident though except work she hasn't gone out since this happened, so unless its on her lunch break I don't think it has happened again. And to someone's response, I would love to get her cell phone and her records but we are at this scary spot right now and I don't want to fully close the door on us... yet. 

She is now starting to back out on one on one therapy too. I know in my mind that I should just walk away but its hard with this much to lose. Here is where my head is at right now. 
1) Try to get through the Holidays for the kids with as much semblance of normalcy as I can. By the way my oldest daughter knew something was going on, and figured it out - she told my wife last night (which I told her in couples therapy but she didn't think so). And later she was crying and my wife was surprised. Like what the ****, its going to get ALOT worst if we separate. And that's the kids that's going to take it the best by far
2) After the Holidays try to get her into Therapy, if not for her or our marriage, for the kids. She is not the same person anymore. I'm really afraid she has some serious mental condition and I don't want to move on until she tries to fix it. 
3) Try to improve myself and start thinking about the good things that will happen if we separate (Its not many but when I stop worring for 2 minutes I can think of a couple). 

That's all I know for now. Appreciate the comments and if you have anymore please keep them coming. (BTW I got about 5 hours sleep last night - most in about 2-3 weeks. Once I fall asleep (crying sometimes), I'm good while sleeping but the second I wake up my mind starts working again. And I have started exercising and eating better, its easier to eat better though when you have no appetite at all. 

Thanks Everyone, I’m glad I joined on here, its been hell. I talked to the marriage counselor, and one good friend that lives in a different city, but he doesn’t have anything to relate to. I don’t want to talk to my family until after the Holidays (it would just make it all too awkward over the Holidays) and I can’t talk to my friends here – it’s a small town, everyone tells everything. So I’ve been holding all this in. 

Thanks!


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

To me it seems your wife is already done with being married to you, she is building momentum for the finish. She wants it to be over but isn't strong enough to file for divorce, or to say to you directly "I want a divorce". She has told you things aren't working, she isn't happy, her behavior is getting worse and she is finding reasons to not be home and fooling around with other men...and telling you about it. I think she is trying to force you to end the marriage so she doesn't have the guilt on her shoulders. Seriously look at the clues she is giving you, I bet if you told her you were filing for divorce she would jump for joy.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Shovel said:


> Me Again, Reading your comments - thanks they are appreciated and enlightening, keep them coming. I see most of all of you think that she cheated. Maybe I'm being stupid, but I do know for sure that she was on her menstrual cycle that weekend. I know that does not mean that more could not have happened than what she said - believe me I have thought about that one. Originally I thought why would she tell me anything if she was still going to lie but everything you said makes sense. Since this incident though except work she hasn't gone out since this happened, so unless its on her lunch break I don't think it has happened again. And to someone's response, I would love to get her cell phone and her records but we are at this scary spot right now and I don't want to fully close the door on us... yet.
> 
> She is now starting to back out on one on one therapy too. I know in my mind that I should just walk away but its hard with this much to lose. Here is where my head is at right now.
> 1) Try to get through the Holidays for the kids with as much semblance of normalcy as I can. By the way my oldest daughter knew something was going on, and figured it out - she told my wife last night (which I told her in couples therapy but she didn't think so). And later she was crying and my wife was surprised. Like what the ****, its going to get ALOT worst if we separate. And that's the kids that's going to take it the best by far
> ...


 @Shovel

Because sex is impossible during the menstrual cycle, right?

Actually, it isn't. It's perfectly possible and lots of people do it.

Not something your wife would contemplate? Like she wouldn't contemplate cheating, either? :scratchhead:


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Okay Shovel, in reviewing your plan, while I'm not entirely clear with your strategy let me focus on you....your health for one, whether you stay in this relationship or not, you can at least start to look at your self and beginning what a good relationship should look like and what you personally can do for yourself.....time to get some reading done....the poster will suggest several books for you read...try no more mr. nice guy.....

I also want you to work on your health...nothing beats working out...there is a lot of truth in a healthy mind healthy body.....look up the 180 approach, you'll find it on this site...

Lastly it's time to become a detective....I would start by get a VAR voice activated recorder and place some where she might talk to some away from your ears. Good luck...other will have other suggestions...listen to experience


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Being on your period ensures you won't get pregnant. Just saying.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

She's telling you what she wants. You just aren't hearing her. 

See an attorney after the holidays. Don't waste anymore money on therapy that won't have your desired effect.

She was testing your reaction when she told you that she kissed another man. Oops turns out they exchanged phone numbers. She says she blocked him after she "confessed" to him that she was married. Why block him? Because they were also reminiscing about their encounters and exchanging dirty talk/pics and she was afraid of getting caught once back home to you.

Your wife is no longer marriage material. Lousy mother, lousy wife. Move on.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I think it's clear that she's done more than she's admitting. She trickled the fact that they kissed, then it was made out and exchanged numbers. More is to come. 

She also stopped MC and is opting for individual therapy because she wants to say things in front of a therapist that she doesn't want to say in front of you.

"I had sex with another guy."
"I'm in love with another man."
"I don't want to stay married. What should I do to get out of this marriage?"
"Are any of your friends a divorce lawyer?"


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Dude. Be done.


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