# All Or Nothing



## goldstandard (Apr 9, 2012)

I posted many months ago under the title ultimatum. The members here were very helpful and the general response was to run for the hills. My gut instinct was that she was in love with getting married and not really in love with me. Quick flashback and review. After dating for 5 months, at Christmas a few years ago she gave me a marriage ultimatum. She went to the local jeweler and priced a ring for herself and told me that I had 2 weeks to decide. We are both in our early 50's. She has never been married but has a teenage daughter from a previous boyfriend who told here he did not want children. I have been married twice before and have no children. I own a business with my brother and lost a lot financially when I went through my divorces. I have now recovered. Since the first ultimatum, I have tried to get her to understand that I wanted us to go slow and build a foundation of trust and communication. I had hung in there barely by a thread with her mood swings. There was no consistency of her wanting to work on our relationship growing; only resentment that I wouldn't commit. She has some signs of bi polar but I don't know for sure. There has been no intimacy for well over a year and we barely have spend any time together over the last year and a half because of her refusal to just date me. It is definitely over now but I still find myself grieving the loss. All I wanted was to be careful and take things slow. There has to be light at the end of the tunnel for me. Can anyone help please.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Hey, goldstandard, I was JUST LOOKING at your original 'Ultimatum' thread because THAT is where I got my first "like"! (how sentimental is THAT?!?)



> It is definitely over now but I still find myself grieving the loss. All I wanted was to be careful and take things slow. There has to be light at the end of the tunnel for me. Can anyone help please.


I'm sorry to hear that you're still feeling down about the break-up of this relationship (because it's been 8 months now).

You WERE right to break it off with her; she did NOT have good intentions toward you! Have you made a CONCERTED EFFORT to find new friends (men AND women) through hobbies, interests, etc.?

If so, how is that going?
If not, WHY not?

I know you knew your ex-gf for close to TWO DECADES; 
are you missing HER as she actually IS? 
are you missing AN IMAGE of how you THOUGHT she was?
are you missing an idealized image of her as she NEVER ACTUALLY WAS?

What is it you actually MISS? HER, or how it COULD HAVE BEEN if she was a different (more 'perfect' person)? Because THESE are two VERY DIFFERENT scenarios!


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## goldstandard (Apr 9, 2012)

Thank you slowlygettingwiser for your response. I started to feel embarrassed when I did not get any feedback from this thread. I have been at the point where I just needed reassurance that I made the right decision to not get engaged to her. Maybe call it withdrawal. She had a keen knack to twist situations around to make me feel that I was wrong and that she was a victim for WAITING for me to make a commitment. Also, she planted the thought in my head " you will never meet anyone who loved you the way I did" " If you really loved me, then you would not be hesitant to buy me a ring and get married" " I knew you were the one for me which is why I did not need time to think about it like you did" " I knew you were the right man for me when we were just friends years ago". I guess I felt flattered that, if all that was true, she felt that much for me to invest a lifetime with me. However, there was always a voice whispering to me that this was ALL ABOUT HER AND NOTHING ABOUT HOW I FEEL ABOUT TAKING THINGS SLOW. After the first ultimatum (6 months into our dating), I felt like she was reluctantly being patient and started to resent it all. Then things started going south from there with constant fewding " I moved back here because of you" even thou I told her not to just because of me. " I am tired of waiting" blah, blah, blah!! Our quality times together became less and less which was cause for more concern on my part. I wanted to hang in there hoping she would just roll with it and enjoy being with me and let us grow. That never happened. She always kept her finger on the PUSH button. In the end, it was he rthat had the last word by telling me "You had it all and lost it all" I feel sorry for you" I am DONE with you" I don't love you anymore". I guess I came back here looking for a PICKMEUP and that all would be okay. When nobody responded to this thread, I was taking that as a message from forum members that my situation was not worth responding to. THank you SLOWLYGETTINGWISER for taking the time to respond to my situation.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

GS, you dodged a bullet! 

I'm glad you listened to your inner voice that was whispering, "This isn't quite right" instead of giving up your values and resenting it later when it cost you severely for a third divorce. Her unwillingness to wait is a sign that she wasn't emotionally compatible with you.

Even though it hurts to lose a relationship, it's best to go through that pain and be available for the "right" relationship when it comes along rather than suffering in silence and missing out on your Ms. Right because you were otherwise hampered.


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## goldstandard (Apr 9, 2012)

Thank you Kathy. That is all I needed to hear. It isn't easy to go through a breakup. What I miss is compatability but even that was scarce at the end. I can't help but to feel that if you really find that you love someone, you are focused on THAT OTHER PERSON that you are in love with and wanting to meet their needs not thinking as much about your own needs. Your own needs are very important also but you are focused less on yourself and more on the one you love. Why rush into marriage if you have the right person in your life and your childbearing years are over? If you trust your love for the other person and you have each other exclusively, why not take it slow and nurture the relationship? She had her foot on the gas pedal the whole time.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

You know, this is the message I tried to teach my kids (not that they listened, necessarily!). I'd tell them "If you're going to be together forever, it doesn't matter if you marry now or ten years from now, you'll still be together, so wait until you know that nothing can drive you apart before you take that legal step that forces you into a courtroom if you made a mistake."


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## goldstandard (Apr 9, 2012)

Thank you again Kathy. When someone is too anxious to get married, it is less about love and commitment and more about acquiring something such as a title, status, or just to be known as married. I learned the hard way in my thirties into my forties. She has never been married and maybe that is one of our principle differences. Get married for the right reasons. I know some day I will feel lucky that I dodged the bullet. She wanted to convince me that her anger with me was totally centered on me not commiting to her. The whisper in my ear was telling me that she would still be angry after we got married.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

When I was much younger, I wanted to get married to my first husband and he was reluctant. It did become a huge source of anger for me, so I can understand where she is coming from in one sense. I felt as if each time he avoided it, he was rejecting me. After we had our second child, I put my foot down and told him to marry me or I would leave for someone who was willing to back up their words of commitment. 

I'd say both sides of the issue have valid points, but they're just not compatible views. That kind of incompatibility will wreck relationships eventually, especially when there are factors like you describe - someone wants the ring just so they won't feel alone, or because they'll have a better financial status, etc.

In my case, we did marry, and it proved disastrous. He never remarried afterward and has used the same excuses he used with me to string along his subsequent girlfriends for 8-10 years until they finally left. I've also seen other couples who did wait, and when they finally agreed it turned out fabulously.


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## goldstandard (Apr 9, 2012)

In my case, the ultimatums started just six months into dating. When she told me that I had two weeks to decide at that point, I wish I could have ended it for good right there on the spot. It all went downhill after that.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Yeah, I caught that in your original post, and I agree that something was "off" there.


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## Cdelta02 (Sep 20, 2012)

you made the right decision in walking/running. absolutely.

now wtf are you doing about getting yourself back to normal? looks like you ran away from her and then while running, you forgot about yourself. See post #2 from SlowlyGWiser. Internalize it, dont just read his (her?) questions. You need to focus on yourself now, building yourself, getting hobbies started, making friends, spending your time socially, and of course getting laid. Not wallowing in self doubt and self pity.


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## goldstandard (Apr 9, 2012)

Hi cdelta02. Thanks for your encouragement. Yes, I have focused on spending time with friends. I have gone on some dates to get myself circulating but nothing special as of yet. I should have dumped her before she had the opportunity to dump me to avoid self pity. The only time I catch myself in a setback is when I am alone during this holiday season whithout someone "special" when others are with partners and I say to myself " I also could have been with a partner shopping tec, IF ONLY I would have gotten her that ring. Then I have to snap out of it and remember ho wmuch of a b$$ch she has been and all the manipulating she has done.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

She didn't really love you. If she did she would have stuck around. What's the big rush at 50 anyway? It seems pretty obvious that she had a marriage agenda. She sounds like a master manipulator type so be thankful because a coerced marriage would have only been the beggining of your misery.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Have you thought about Volunteering (like a soup kitchen) this holiday season, Gold? There are people MUCH WORSE off than us and they could use the help. ALSO...you might meet some like-minded FRIENDS (men & women) who have time to spare AND a dearth of family to spend it with. 

My sister has always (even now that she's married) invited SINGLES over for Thanksgiving and Xmas: people who don't have nearby family/friends. THey have a big party and everybody there has friends (new and old) to hang out with. Maybe that's something you could consider for New Year's.

Just think outside the box, Gold!


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> Just think outside the box, Gold!


.. the ENGAGEMENT ring box :rofl:


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## goldstandard (Apr 9, 2012)

Thanks slowlygettingwiser for getting back. I am doing things to keep me busy. I will consider volunterring. I know things happen when you least expect them. At my age, I will not go sit in a bar to meet women. Just the thought of that makes me ill. I did all that back in my 20's. I get up early and work out at the health club and race off to work every day. Lately, when I have gotten home, I just want to read a book or watch a good movie with my dog. It is kind of nice not having someone around taking jabs at you (cheap comments to make you fel guilty). The dog is always happy to see me. lol 

Don't you think that if she gives you ultimatums before marriage, she will also give you ultimatums after marriage? I don't think her ultimatums would have stopped once she finally became a Mrs. How anyone can enter into a lifetime commitment for other reasons other than love, I will never understand. When she finally broke it off by saying that she didn't love me anymore, I responded by saying " See, I was right! What if you would have figured that out after we were married?" There has to be a reason why she is now in her 50's and never been married. I pointed that out to her as well. I don't think she liked hearing that.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> Don't you think that if she gives you ultimatums before marriage, she will also give you ultimatums after marriage?


I think once people are all grown up (27yo+) if they make UNREASONABLE demands BEFORE marriage (marry me even though we've only been dating 6mos), they will continue to make unreasonable demands AFTER marriage.

Likewise, if they make seemingly reasonable demands for ridiculous reasons BEFORE marriage (we need to get a bigger house when the kids come...because that's what ALL MY FRIENDS DID), then they will continue to make more demands for ridiculous reasons AFTER marriage.

If you're thinking about your EXgf, she wanted to be MARRIED, she wanted lots of MONEY, she wanted you to pay for the expenses her teen daughter would soon be incurring, she wanted security (maybe) of your businesses/alimony/whatever. I don't think she saw you as Mr. Right (you knew her for almost 2 decades), I think she saw you as Mr. RightNow. Never be someone's Plan B...because THAT'S when you'll meet the woman who WOULD HAVE MADE YOU Plan A (karma's a b1tch like that!)

Gold, post at least ONE THING that's been better in your life since April. Post it RIGHT HERE on this thread, please! :smthumbup:


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

NOT to be a nag, Gold, but have you thought about this:


> I know you knew your ex-gf for two decades;
> 
> are you missing HER as she actually IS?
> are you missing AN IMAGE of how you THOUGHT she was?
> ...


ANY THOUGHTS ON THESE POINTS?


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## goldstandard (Apr 9, 2012)

I don't miss her for who she actually is. I think I miss the first 6 months when she PRETENDED to place me on this high pedastal. She would email me love letters 5 times a day. I have to give her credit for convincing me that she really loved me. Then it all stopped all of a sudden. I think I miss what I wanted her to be like before the demands started. You know how things can be so great when you are dating. Then she wanted to enter the next phase before I was ready. THen I saw the other side of her. I wonder if she tried this approach with any other guys before we started dating and they didn't buy into it either which is why she is still single.


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

goldstandard said:


> I posted many months ago under the title ultimatum. The members here were very helpful and the general response was to run for the hills. My gut instinct was that she was in love with getting married and not really in love with me. Quick flashback and review. After dating for 5 months, at Christmas a few years ago she gave me a marriage ultimatum. She went to the local jeweler and priced a ring for herself and told me that I had 2 weeks to decide. We are both in our early 50's. She has never been married but has a teenage daughter from a previous boyfriend who told here he did not want children. I have been married twice before and have no children. I own a business with my brother and lost a lot financially when I went through my divorces. I have now recovered. Since the first ultimatum, I have tried to get her to understand that I wanted us to go slow and build a foundation of trust and communication. I had hung in there barely by a thread with her mood swings. There was no consistency of her wanting to work on our relationship growing; only resentment that I wouldn't commit. She has some signs of bi polar but I don't know for sure. There has been no intimacy for well over a year and we barely have spend any time together over the last year and a half because of her refusal to just date me. It is definitely over now but I still find myself grieving the loss. All I wanted was to be careful and take things slow. There has to be light at the end of the tunnel for me. Can anyone help please.


I have a friend going through kind of the same thing. It isn't a good idea to be pushed into anything when you are not willing. In the case of my friend, he is newly divorced for the first time, never was with anyone but his wife (they got married young), and he was dating this chik that kept pushing him for more than he was willing to give right now. The whole guilt trip thing, and she even said to him the same thing this lady said to you about nobody else will love him the way she will...blah blah blah. I bought him that No More Mr. Nice Guy book and he read half of it and broke up with her the next day. He was always feeling pressured into seeing her and having a relationship with her. It was just too fast and she refused to consider that. 

I think you should find someone who cares enough for you to go your speed. If she cares for you, she will understand why you would want to take things a little more slowly. And if she is a quality person, she would have nothing to fear for waiting. It sounds like this other lady wanted to get you in the bag before you figured out reasons to not be with her.


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## goldstandard (Apr 9, 2012)

Dardream, You are right. She already had her child so what was the hurry. In our discussions, I would bring all this up. she would just deny any ulterior motives and said she could have been married long ago and had numerous guys wanting serious relationships with her. The very first red flag I noticed with her was 16 years ago when she met me for the first time in so many years for dinner. She told me that she had a 3 month old baby that she planned with a guy that did not want kids. Her parents ended up raising he baby. I could not understand why she would plan a pregnancy with a man that did not want children. Her 16 year old daughter has grown up without a father.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

My personal opinion: 

"Nobody will love you the way I do" = "You're not quality goods." 

"I could've been married years ago" = "but nobody would have me because I acted this way then, too."


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