# I just dont know what to do.



## LostNSpace (Apr 15, 2013)

Like most of you here I have found out that my husband is having an EA (from what I can tell) and it has not progressed to a PA. I had that gut feeling for awhile, but no proof. Always on the cell phone texting, turning his phone away so I cant see when he texts, going out all the time and not returning till very late. I do have some proof emails, a pic of them two together (at a wedding I wasnt invited to), and text conversation from my WH to a coworker of his. Until I read the text conversation between WH and coworker I was in denial. Int the message he states that he cares for the OW, but the OW is trying to work things out with her BF. The coworker asks WH if he would leave his wife for her and his reply was "YES and basically have".
This came as a shock to me and all the emotions rushed in and everything has hit home since then. I contacted a lawyer that day because I needed some information in case he walked out. I want to work on my marriage. I do truly love him. Our marriage isnt perfect and we have had some conversations in the past week and I have asked him if he wants to work on our marriage and his reply is "I am here arent I?". I think he suspects I know, but not for certain. 

I just dont know how to confront him and I am so scared to confront him. Even with the evidence I have I just know how he is and will say things like I am imagining this and that this is not really what is going on. From what I understand from some messages I have seen he has told OW how he feels about her and he has "put the ball in her court". I havent seen any contact between them in a week and a half, but they do work together. Should I contact her first and tell her he hasnt left me or should I confront first? Please help!


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

If you need more concrete evidence to make sure that you feel confident approaching your H about his A, then I suggest putting a VAR (voice activated recorder) under his car seat. And if he so happens to put his phone down for a minute to have a shower or something, sneak a peak in his phone. But don't get caught doing it or else he will learn to hide it better.

Start getting in the mind set of leaving your H. Don't wait for him to walk out, You have to be ready to kick him out. Not caring what he decides to do after. Build your strength and courage up, and start taking control of what you do with your own life. He is in La La Land with OW right now


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I'm sorry  I know this is probably the hardest thing you are going to face in your life plus, you are broken hearted. Gather your thoughts and as Somethingelse said if you feel you need more evidence get it. Be strong he has as much power as you do, you are equal. Don't let him lie, blame shift or gas light you. Do not tolorate anything else than remorse and apologies, he must go no contact with her immediately don't beg him to stay. Cry if you must don't be afraid to, if you need a minute to compose yourself take it. You are not crazy, paranoid, insecure, jealous or imagining things. It is not your fault. He needs to prove he deserves you! Read a bit in this form, learn the cheaters scrip on the sticky treads. See a counseler talk to a friend or family, you deserve nothing better than to be happy. 

Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostNSpace (Apr 15, 2013)

somethingelse said:


> If you need more concrete evidence to make sure that you feel confident approaching your H about his A, then I suggest putting a VAR (voice activated recorder) under his car seat. And if he so happens to put his phone down for a minute to have a shower or something, sneak a peak in his phone. But don't get caught doing it or else he will learn to hide it better.
> 
> Start getting in the mind set of leaving your H. Don't wait for him to walk out, You have to be ready to kick him out. Not caring what he decides to do after. Build your strength and courage up, and start taking control of what you do with your own life. He is in La La Land with OW right now


I have occasionaly put a VAR in his car, but I dont have anything yet. He has put a code on his phone in the last few months, but I have learned it, so I have been looking when he takes a shower in the morning. That is how I found the picture and text to his coworker. I have taken pictures of those texts and the pic of them together and have them printed out and in a safe location. The emails I have are mainly them just sending pictures of roses back anf forth. Enough for me to be mad, but I can see him trying to explain those things away. 

It has been so hard to control myself around him with the information I do have. I dont know how people do it for so long.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

There's an evidence gathering thread on here somewhere - you can put spyware on his phone. What kind of phone does he have?

You can also put a keylogger on his computer, if you suspect he's using that to communicate with her.

I agree that you need more evidence before you confront. And when you do confront, don't just tell him what you know. Tell him what he has to do, and what you will do if he doesn't. And then follow through.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

he's "put the ball in her court"?
so, basically, youre plan B and if things dont work out with OW, he'll grace you with his presence, but if OW wants him he will drop you?
right?
that dont sound like a way i would like to live. oh wait, i DID live it (only i didnt KNOW i was living it).
dont do that to yourself. you KNOW your husband is in love with someone else. you KNOW he would leave you if she asked him to.
retain your diginity. confront him with what you know, as others have said dont reveal your source(s). make him make a decision. 
"her or me. right now".
i mean, really.
then you can "work on your marriage", if he agrees to do that. if he doesnt, save your self-respect and bail.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Lost,

Based on what you describe, it is very unlikely that your H's affair has not gone physical. I would highly suggest that you assume it is. But for argument's sake, lets say it hasn't.

You have evidence that your husband is having and EA and is considering leaving you for the OW. He's just waiting for her to decide to leave her boyfriend. Yes, you could get more evidence by putting a VAR in his car, perhaps confirm the PA. But if you do it, it needs to be done quickly so that you can confront him as ASAP. To me, the main value of a VAR would be to monitor him post confrontation to confirm if he has ended contact; if he agrees to.

Does it even matter to you if it is a PA? He's told someone else that he wants to LEAVE YOU FOR the OW. He has an exit affair set up and ready to go.

You should approach this with the following mindset:

*You need to be willing to lose your marriage to have a chance at saving it.*

You have the moral high ground. Remember that his cheating is not your fault. No matter what part of your marital issues are on you, there is no excuse for cheating. Ever. 

You have to be strong and uncompromising in your dealings with him if you want to R. You can't nice your way into winning your husband back. He has to receive consequences for his actions, followed by his "demonstrating" complete remorse - or there is little chance.

You'll get a lot of good advice here, but let me start with the basics.

1 - Set up the VAR in his car.

2 - Confront him ASAP. You don't have to tell him what your evidence is. Just tell him you have evidence of his willingness to leave you for the OW and you know about their frequent communication. Tell him you are giving him one chance to come clean about the details.

3 - If he admits to the affair ask him to write out a timeline of how it progressed.

4 - He must end all contact and write a no contact letter to her, that you approve and mail yourself. If they work together, either he or she must quit their job. There is no compromise on this. This affair won't end otherwise.

5 - He must confirm the no contact by becoming completely transparent. He gives you all passwords and complete access to all his communication devices. He will not delete messages. (and you will monitor his cell use through the carrier - you don't need to tell him that).

5 - For now, expose the affair to OW's bf, his family and your family. Don't tell him you're doing it, just do it. Quickly. You'll take a wait and see approach to exposing at the workplace, if he removes the possibility of contact there. 

6 - If he doesn't agree to *every one* of these expectations, do the 180 on him (find the link - very important) and ask him to leave the house. If he won't, at least separate him from your bed. See an attorney and start divorce proceedings. Separate your finances while you're doing it.

In other words, if he's not begging you for another chance and not showing snot bubble blowing remorse; you need to go forward with the D. If he comes around later, you can reconsider going through with it. If he complies immediately, be prepared to start the D if he stops complying.

Cheaters *have to have* consequences in order to demonstrate that they are remorseful. I know it's hard. I and a lot of others have been where you are. 

Keep posting and we'll continue to help you along the way.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

LostNSpace said:


> I have occasionaly put a VAR in his car, but I dont have anything yet. He has put a code on his phone in the last few months, but I have learned it, so I have been looking when he takes a shower in the morning. That is how I found the picture and text to his coworker. I have taken pictures of those texts and the pic of them together and have them printed out and in a safe location. The emails I have are mainly them just sending pictures of roses back anf forth. Enough for me to be mad, but I can see him trying to explain those things away.
> 
> It has been so hard to control myself around him with the information I do have. I dont know how people do it for so long.


I would say try to let everything you find slide down your back until you get the proof you need to hit him hard with it if that's the route you are going to take. It can be hard to hold in all of these emotions in I agree.

Honestly though, from what you've told us, it sounds to me like things have gotten physical between him and the OW. There would be no other incentive for your H telling her he will leave you for her, other than him trying to keep her in the sack and play further along in the A. 

Another thing you could do is be REALLY nice to your H. Give him EVERYTHING you think he has ever wanted (if you know what I mean). Tell him you love him. Give him lots of kisses and hugs. And try not to get overwhelmed with sadness if he pulls away or doesn't want to do things with you. It's just his guilt talking and the A.

This might start triggering him into guilt mode, and he might start separating himself from OW. If that happens, he might tell you on his own and stop the A by himself. But that is all depending on how you approach it. Let him fester in his own hole he's dug himself.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> Another thing you could do is be REALLY nice to your H. Give him EVERYTHING you think he has ever wanted (if you know what I mean). Tell him you love him. Give him lots of kisses and hugs. And try not to get overwhelmed with sadness if he pulls away or doesn't want to do things with you. It's just his guilt talking and the A.
> 
> This might start triggering him into guilt mode, and he might start separating himself from OW. If that happens, he might tell you on his own and stop the A by himself. But that is all depending on how you approach it. Let him fester in his own hole he's dug himself.


this might work.
although, i will tell you this:
once my wife an i were talking about her EA/PA, and she told me that when i would come up behind her when she was cooking or just standing at the counter and put my arms around her and tell her how much i loved her, what a wonderful wife she was, and what a great mother she was...it would just "tear her up inside".
then, just as soon as she could, she would tell her OM all about it, and they would reassure each other that indeed they were not horrible people.
so im not really too sure that it would work.
it is amazing to me (in a good way) how people are able to withstand such torment. im just too hot-headed. i wish i had known the depth of my wifes A before i confronted her, because likely i wouldhave done things completely different. i confronted within 15 minutes of learning that she was being unfatithful.
so, you have to take my advice with a grain of salt. im simply a reactionary person.


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## LostNSpace (Apr 15, 2013)

I have been doing this. We had some "talks" about our marriage last week. Lots of crying, lots of me putting my heart out there for him, admitting to him that I know our marriage isnt perfect, but I want to work on it. All I have said to him is that I feel something is different and that I dont know what it is, never mentioned the A.

Since then he has been very lovey with me. I have given him lots of "love" (if you know what I mean). We went out this weekend together and had a nice time. I actually met a few of his other coworkers that I didnt know (he started a new school last fall and that is how he met her) at a school function and then went out after. He hasnt been pulling away from me at all. Seeing the texts that he is willing to leave me, but then is lovey with me has me so confused and has not helped with the denial.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

yes it is very confusing, isnt it?
what did he say, when you put your heart out for him?
did he reciprocate?

has he had contact with OW since then?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

LostNSpace said:


> I have been doing this. We had some "talks" about our marriage last week. Lots of crying, lots of me putting my heart out there for him, admitting to him that I know our marriage isnt perfect, but I want to work on it. All I have said to him is that I feel something is different and that I dont know what it is, never mentioned the A.
> 
> Since then he has been very lovey with me. I have given him lots of "love" (if you know what I mean). We went out this weekend together and had a nice time. I actually met a few of his other coworkers that I didnt know (he started a new school last fall and that is how he met her) at a school function and then went out after. He hasnt been pulling away from me at all. Seeing the texts that he is willing to leave me, but then is lovey with me has me so confused and has not helped with the denial.


Look, I will respect everyone's opinions. But I don't believe that being nice to him will get you anywhere, even before you confront. 

I'm certain it won't get you anywhere right after you confront. It will make him lose even more respect for you.

But not withstanding my opinions about being nice; your marriage is in crisis mode. You don't have time for that. How do you know what day the OW will finally concede to your husband. Tomorrow, in a week? Right now you're living in purgatory.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

LostNSpace said:


> I have been doing this. We had some "talks" about our marriage last week. Lots of crying, lots of me putting my heart out there for him, admitting to him that I know our marriage isnt perfect, but I want to work on it. All I have said to him is that I feel something is different and that I dont know what it is, never mentioned the A.
> 
> Since then he has been very lovey with me. I have given him lots of "love" (if you know what I mean). We went out this weekend together and had a nice time. I actually met a few of his other coworkers that I didnt know (he started a new school last fall and that is how he met her) at a school function and then went out after. He hasnt been pulling away from me at all. Seeing the texts that he is willing to leave me, but then is lovey with me has me so confused and has not helped with the denial.


Just be careful from now on that you don't reveal any more "insecurities" to him. It might signal to him that he has to start hiding things better because essentially you are telling him that he's acting strangely, and your M is doing a downward turn. He might take that as a sign to "act normal" for you. 

The one good sign I do see is that when you did express your worries to him, he changed the way he was distancing himself. This tells me that the OW is not something that he wants long term. He really wants you, but he's caught up in lust for this woman right now. But in reality, he still wants to keep you. 

He's being a cake eater. You are the number one woman in his mind long term. He doesn't want to lose you. That's why he is playing it better for you now. But it still doesn't change the fact that he's still cheating. 

Usually the WS will fabricate all kinds of lies within the A, to keep it going. He is telling this OW that he will leave you for her not because he will, but because it keeps her hot for him. That's it.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

badmemory said:


> Look, I will respect everyone's opinions. But I don't believe that being nice to him will get you anywhere, even before you confront.
> 
> I'm certain it won't get you anywhere right after you confront. It will make him loose even more respect for you.
> 
> But not withstanding my opinions about being nice; your marriage is in crisis mode. You don't have time for that. How do you know what day the OW will finally concede to your husband. Tomorrow, in a week? Right now you're living in purgatory.


Totally agree, this makes you look like a doormat, you are putting yourself up for plan b. you need to do a 180 which is the opposite.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Yeah, acting like a wet noodle is going to get you eaten alive.

Gather evidence and then confront, once you have your plan in place. Anything else will NOT work.


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## LostNSpace (Apr 15, 2013)

The heart to heart conversation started because he posted on Facebook something about he is done trying and it doesnt matter anymore. I saw his post and knew instantly he was talking about our marriage because he was mad at me for something one of the kids had done earlier in the evening. I called him out on his post (it has since been deleted off of facebook) and that is what started our conversation. Now that I am truly thinking about it maybe I was the only one putting my heart out there. He threw in my face that I had been texting a mutual male friend (nothing incriminating) and that I talk to a friend at work (I have told no one about my suspicions of him having an A). I told him that I thought something was going on with him, but I coudlnt tell what it was (Secretly hoping he would confess). Looking back he never really answered. It was kind of one sided, but then intiated making love and I complied.

I havent seen contact on phone or email, but they work together, so I have no idea.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

LostNSpace said:


> The heart to heart conversation started because he posted on Facebook something about he is done trying and it doesnt matter anymore. I saw his post and knew instantly he was talking about our marriage because he was mad at me for something one of the kids had done earlier in the evening. I called him out on his post (it has since been deleted off of facebook) and that is what started our conversation. Now that I am truly thinking about it maybe I was the only one putting my heart out there. He threw in my face that I had been texting a mutual male friend (nothing incriminating) and that I talk to a friend at work (I have told no one about my suspicions of him having an A). I told him that I thought something was going on with him, but I coudlnt tell what it was (Secretly hoping he would confess). Looking back he never really answered. It was kind of one sided, but then intiated making love and I complied.
> 
> I havent seen contact on phone or email, but they work together, so I have no idea.


He's trying to justify himself by pinning all of life's problems on you. It helps ease his guilty conscience while having the A. And he's trying to distract you from what he's doing, by making you feel as if you have to "work" on the marriage. Don't let him do this. But don't question him about your M either. It will make things worse, and even more exciting for him. The better it's hidden, the more high he will get out of this A. 

He will not admit to this A easily either. Some people will never admit to an A. They will continue it, or end it, but they may Never tell you..Ever.

What I found worked really well with my H (because he's a hard nut to crack, a manipulator and a serial cheater) is finding hard, cold evidence, and slamming it in his face, threatening D, and ready to do it if he didn't do what I wanted from there on out. It seems to work better than everything else I've tried in the past. Better outcomes so far.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

I will also tell you this, in hindsight (aint it great?), had i known from the beginning how wrapped up and "in love" my wife was with this pos, and the depth of the contempt she had for me...i would have never went for R. 
Its extremely difficult to overcome. 
So maybe you should really think about whats best for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Nice! He is attempting some blame transfer!


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

LostNSpace said:


> Until I read the text conversation between WH and coworker I was in denial. Int the message he states that he cares for the OW, but the OW is trying to work things out with her BF. The coworker asks WH if he would leave his wife for her and his reply was "YES and basically have".





LostNSpace said:


> From what I understand from some messages I have seen he has told OW how he feels about her and he has "put the ball in her court".


 The above proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is in at least a full blown emotional affair (if not also a physical affair) with the other woman. You do not need anymore proof that they are more than just friends. Wasting time saying that you need more evidence is just you making an excuse not to confront. The ball to your marraige should not be in the other woman's court. Confront right now. 

Tell him that he either commits to working on the marraige or you will divorce him on the spot and not look back; say it and mean it. Tell him the name of your attorney and tell him that it looks pretty good for you financially with child support, alimony and such. Tell him working on the marriage means no contact with the other woman outside of work (and even then only about business) until he finds another job, and full transparency which includes all passwords and access without complaint. Tell him that as much as you love him, you will no longer allow yourself to be disrespected by him. You have been so weak for so long that he will probably call your bluff. Do not make it a bluff. Remember that divorce is a process that takes time, and you can always call it off if he is later deserving.

The only thing that you have to fear is fear itself.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

LostNSpace said:


> Like most of you here I have found out that my husband is having an EA (from what I can tell) and it has not progressed to a PA. I had that gut feeling for awhile, but no proof. Always on the cell phone texting, turning his phone away so I cant see when he texts, going out all the time and not returning till very late. I do have some proof emails, a pic of them two together (at a wedding I wasnt invited to), and text conversation from my WH to a coworker of his. Until I read the text conversation between WH and coworker I was in denial. Int the message he states that he cares for the OW, but the OW is trying to work things out with her BF. The coworker asks WH if he would leave his wife for her and his reply was "YES and basically have".
> This came as a shock to me and all the emotions rushed in and everything has hit home since then. I contacted a lawyer that day because I needed some information in case he walked out. I want to work on my marriage. I do truly love him. Our marriage isnt perfect and we have had some conversations in the past week and I have asked him if he wants to work on our marriage and his reply is "I am here arent I?". I think he suspects I know, but not for certain.
> 
> I just dont know how to confront him and I am so scared to confront him. Even with the evidence I have I just know how he is and will say things like I am imagining this and that this is not really what is going on. From what I understand from some messages I have seen he has told OW how he feels about her and he has "put the ball in her court". I havent seen any contact between them in a week and a half, but they do work together. Should I contact her first and tell her he hasnt left me or should I confront first? Please help!


Dear LostNSpace,

If you live in the U.S., the best thing you can do is talk to an attorney about the divorce laws in your state and learn what you would get in the way of child custody, child support, alimony and property division if you divorce him. Armed with that, all you have to do is sit him down tell him his fate if he doesn't come clean about what is going on and start to fix it (and be sure to tell him in detail what you expect of him). Unless you make a lot more money than he does or have been a really terrible mom (which I doubt), he will be at your mercy.

I wrote this before seeing TRy's recent post but thought the point bore repeating.

Good luck.


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## LostNSpace (Apr 15, 2013)

Thank you everyone for posting and trying to kick me in the butt about this. I am scared. That is probably the reason I havent confronted. Scared of numerous things. What if he does choose to end our marriage? I would be devastated at this point, but everyone is right in that I should not be a doormat. I am better than that, but it so doesnt feel like it right now. I am embarrassed about this and that is why I have not told anyone that I know personally. 

I have spoken with a lawyer a week ago. I know if I filed things would be on my side and in the end the kids and I would be ok. It would take a lot for us to get that way, but we would survive. Why am I so scared to lay down the law?

I just found a $200 atm withdrawal out of savings for the day he went to a wedding without me. I know she was there and that is the night he told her how he felt about her. I am mad at this at the moment and when he gets home I will ask him about the withdrawal.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Don't worry about him. I foresee him crawling on his hands and knees to beg for you to stay and give him another chance. But you have to make it known that you mean business. Write out a list of "To Do's" for him in the case that he is begging. Show him your proof, and be stern when you talk to him. Don't cry, don't ask him why he did it, just tell him your plans to leave, of D, and where you will be staying.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

LostNSpace said:


> Thank you everyone for posting and trying to kick me in the butt about this. *I am scared. That is probably the reason I havent confronted. Scared of numerous things. What if he does choose to end our marriage? I would be devastated at this point*, but everyone is right in that I should not be a doormat. I am better than that, but it so doesnt feel like it right now. I am embarrassed about this and that is why I have not told anyone that I know personally.
> 
> I have spoken with a lawyer a week ago. I know if I filed things would be on my side and in the end the kids and I would be ok. It would take a lot for us to get that way, but we would survive. Why am I so scared to lay down the law?
> 
> I just found a $200 atm withdrawal out of savings for the day he went to a wedding without me. I know she was there and that is the night he told her how he felt about her. I am mad at this at the moment and when he gets home I will ask him about the withdrawal.


Dear LostNSpace,

You should be scared, not of telling him that you are prepared to end your marriage but of not doing and thus allowing this to turn into a full-fledged physical affair (assuming it hasn't already).

Unless you are prepared to give him his walking papers if he doesn't end this inappropriate relationship, you will likely find yourself in a much worse place and soon. Yours isn't a choice between a happy marriage and divorce, it's between teaching your WH what is acceptable behavior and letting things progress until divorce is your only option.

Do it now, while you still have some control and before it goes any further.

Hoping you find the courage.


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## JessieP (Feb 28, 2012)

I was scared too....when I realized my husband's innocent texting wasn't so innocent. I didn't know it at the time but the signs were there slapping me in the face.....all the texting between them, him turning his phone on silent, bringing his phone in the bathroom when he showered, deleting all the texts between the two of them...before I knew it I slowly started unraveling not only they had an emotional affair but a physical affair....if you're going to confront him, don't believe him until you know absolutely all the details...sadly even then he'll be lying to you....you could always go talk to the other women....but that would take a certain kind of person not to lose it and get arrested so I wouldn't advise it if you know you'll get angry too easy.....sorry to hear you are going through this and good luck!!


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## LostNSpace (Apr 15, 2013)

I am planning on confronting next week. I am working on getting everything ready about what I am going to say and what I want to know. I am not sure how he is going to respond to this at all. He has been so nice and lovey dovey lately I dont know if he will confess and grovel at my feet or walk out. 

There is a basketball team event planned for Sunday that I know she is going to attend and he wants to attend. I keep trying to get information about it so I can go and take kids (its supposed to be at a bowling alley or something). He doesnt want to answer my quesstions about it and I get the standard I dont know answer. Well, I have been invited to a GF's b-day get togther at a bar that afternoon and I have told him about it and what time it was. Apparently the time conflicts with whatever is planned that day. I hope he gives in and stays home with the kids so I can go. At least I will know that he is not near her. 

I am riding the emotional roller coaster again. Its getting harder for me to do this because he has been so nice lately and hasnt been going out without and staying out late.

Also, about exposure. I so bad want to tell the BF of the OW, but I dont want to push them apart so that she runs to my WH. Ideas and thoughts? One more thing, the co-worker that my husband has been lying to about having left me.....Should I expose him to her too? I also so bad want to confront OW and tell her all the lies that he has been telling her just to make her see he is not this great and wonderful man that wont ever hurt her like he claims.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Confronting the OW boyfriend will mean she has to deal with that instead of offering your husband support.

I'd expose to him right off as a way of delivering a real shock to the affair.

The OW may well through your husband under the bus to save herself, and that will help you with your husband.


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## LostNSpace (Apr 15, 2013)

Only real problem is I am not positive who the BF is. I have a good idea and I know where they live. I am not sure how to test my theorys to make sure I have the correct guy. I have a workplace and a phone number.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Stolen from another thread and modified...
Call him and say that you are a recruiter. Say you want to make sure you've got the right guy, and if he was the OWs bf? Then say you heard that he was looking for a new opportunity and if he was then for him to give you his email so you can send him details about a company you are recruiting for.


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## LostNSpace (Apr 15, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> Stolen from another thread and modified...
> Call him and say that you are a recruiter. Say you want to make sure you've got the right guy, and if he was the OWs bf? Then say you heard that he was looking for a new opportunity and if he was then for him to give you his email so you can send him details about a company you are recruiting for.


Wow, thanks for the idea. I hope I can be a wonderful actress on that one. I am not usually good at those things.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

If your H has ill intentions for when he goes to the basketball event, then the more you ask him about it, the more he will become irritated. So is this an adult event he's going to with OW? Is there going to be drinking do you think?


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

LostNSpace said:


> I am planning on confronting next week. I am working on getting everything ready about what I am going to say and what I want to know. I am not sure how he is going to respond to this at all. He has been so nice and lovey dovey lately I dont know if he will confess and grovel at my feet or walk out.
> 
> There is a basketball team event planned for Sunday that I know she is going to attend and he wants to attend. I keep trying to get information about it so I can go and take kids (its supposed to be at a bowling alley or something). He doesnt want to answer my quesstions about it and I get the standard I dont know answer. Well, *I have been invited to a GF's b-day get togther at a bar that afternoon* and I have told him about it and what time it was. Apparently the time conflicts with whatever is planned that day. I hope he gives in and stays home with the kids so I can go. At least I will know that he is not near her.
> 
> ...


Dear LostNSpace,

Please let me make a general observation about the bolded statement above.

In modern American marriages, it seems increasingly common for married people to hang out with friends at bars without their spouses. IMO, this is not conducive to a healthy marriage. The mix of alcohol and "available" people of the opposite sex when the spouse is not around has led to many a marital problem.

In this case, it sounds innocent enough (an afternoon birthday party with some GFs) and maybe, in this instance since the purpose is to keep your H at home, it is a good idea. But if you make a habit of going out drinking with friends, you set a bad example for your H and expose yourself to situations that may complicate your marriage down the road (assuming you get past your current difficulties). I think you would strengthen your marriage by avoiding such events and asking your H to do the same. Nothing wrong with going out for a drink or two with your spouse, of course.

I know that some on TAM will say that I'm old-fashioned and that times have changed (I'm an old coot and in my day BNOs and GNOs were still a bit scandalous) but, sometimes, the old ways are best.

Glad to hear that you are planning to confront your H. Keep calm when you do, don't argue, just tell him what you expect from him and what will happen if he doesn't comply (i.e., you will file for D).

Good luck.


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## LostNSpace (Apr 15, 2013)

somethingelse said:


> If your H has ill intentions for when he goes to the basketball event, then the more you ask him about it, the more he will become irritated. So is this an adult event he's going to with OW? Is there going to be drinking do you think?



No, this is an "party" for the basketball players. He coached the jr high team this last season and she asst coached varsity.
So, no drinking involved. Students will be there but that does not mean after the event they wont do something together.
He was just awarded the hgh school varisty coach position and apparently she is going to be his assistant (another guy was supposed to be his asst). I found out this last night and justs about blew up. 

He also lied to me last night saying he was still at track practice at 4:55 pm and then I have a text to her at 4:49 that he was playing horse in the gym. I am sure she met him in the gym and they socialized. He texted me at 5:51 saying the last track kid just left and he was leaving. How convient they were together for an hour. I am so mad right now. At this point I am confronting tonight, so it wont matter about the party on Sunday. I am telling him that either he quits the basketball team or she will. If that doesnt happen I am going to the Atheltic Director for the school and telling him about the A. 
I guess I am getting to the point of being angry.


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## lewmin (Nov 5, 2012)

Although you are scared, you will feel a great sense of relief when you confront. You have enough proof, so go do it.

I was in a similar situation. I was clearly Plan B to POSOM. I had seen all the texts about them running off together and all the other bull, after I had given 27 very good years to my wife. My wife, at the time, had absolutely no problem tossing me aside and move on with POSOM (whose wife was busy working and providing like me, while they were boinking each other) and POSOM even mentioned that "he hope his wife finds out", other times he mentioned that "his wife knows". We are trying to reconcile but it's a tough road.

So my advice to you is do not be scared. In my case, and in so many others on this site, POSOM will beg and plead with his wife to stay. 95% of the time, that's what seems to happen on this site. And what if your husband runs off with him? It's hard now...but since they did not respect their wedding vows, they will eventually cheat on each other. You know deep down that you don't believe in a marriage based on betrayal. Your husband will most likely try to reconcile, and if your marriage can be saved, so be it. 

And he will have some heavy lifting to do. So, don't wait..just do it. And make sure the you have proof that the OW knows.....don't take your husband's word for it at all!!!

You see, cheaters are liars. They are cake-eaters.


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## LostNSpace (Apr 15, 2013)

carmen ohio said:


> Dear LostNSpace,
> 
> Please let me make a general observation about the bolded statement above.
> 
> ...


Carmen,

Please let me explain something. He started a new teaching job this past fall (that is how he met OW). Ever since the job has started he has frequented the bar so often I have begun to lose track. In the past he would NEVER go to the bar. There are so many nights they go to the bar and I am stuck home with the kids. I have no idea what he is doing and I dont really know the people he is hanging out with. When this happens the normal routine is coming home about 4 a.m. I have been very vocal that I dont like this and I become the "naggy" wife. I also get told if my friends werent such losers they would invite me out and I would get an oppurtunity to go out. I do get invites all the time to go out, but NEVER go. Mostly because I cant trust him to get the kids or actually come home on time like he is supposed to and not make an excuse that he has to do something else. I hardly ever go to the bar without him.

Dont get me wrong I would rather go together and do things with him. It always used to be like that in the past. I have a feeling though if we got a sitter he would want to go to the basketball event and send me off to the GF's bday party. So, if I go and have no sitter he has to sit home with the kids. I do admit that I have gotten to the point of being very resentful because I am always the one staying home with the kids while he goes off and has fun.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

LostNSpace said:


> Carmen,
> 
> Please let me explain something. He started a new teaching job this past fall (that is how he met OW). Ever since the job has started he has frequented the bar so often I have begun to lose track. In the past he would NEVER go to the bar. There are so many nights they go to the bar and I am stuck home with the kids. I have no idea what he is doing and I dont really know the people he is hanging out with. When this happens the normal routine is coming home about 4 a.m. I have been very vocal that I dont like this and I become the "naggy" wife. I also get told if my friends werent such losers they would invite me out and I would get an oppurtunity to go out. I do get invites all the time to go out, but NEVER go. Mostly because I cant trust him to get the kids or actually come home on time like he is supposed to and not make an excuse that he has to do something else. I hardly ever go to the bar without him.
> 
> Dont get me wrong I would rather go together and do things with him. It always used to be like that in the past. I have a feeling though if we got a sitter he would want to go to the basketball event and send me off to the GF's bday party. So, if I go and have no sitter he has to sit home with the kids. I do admit that I have gotten to the point of being very resentful because I am always the one staying home with the kids while he goes off and has fun.


But this is exactly it! Going to bars without the spouse....look where it has got you. Not that this is your fault, but instead of being the 'nagging' wife, if you had been firm in your boundaries you would have dealt with this decisively. You would have made your feelings clear, if he continued to abuse your feelings and your marriage you would have given him severe consequences...i.e. left him or threw him out. Instead you stated your feelings and allowed him to move the boundaries of you and your marriage, and abuse you and your marriage.

He gaslighted you, made out that this problem of his was yours. What he was, is, doing (bars) was not healthy for the marriage, and yet he turned it into your problem. Easy to blame a woman for 'nagging'. 

I am not blaming you, most of us fall into this situation. I was enlightened by a poster who dealt with her husband in exactly the way I have written about. It was an uplifting post. It was great to read someone's post who dealt positively and decisively with her husband going out to bars all the time (no cheating involved), she threw him out, or she left, I can't remember, and her outcome was a husband who regretted his selfishness, realised what he had done, and also realised that his wife's boundaries were solid. She was not standing for his crap. Increased respect for her. All positive outcomes. And her words are to be listened to. 

So, if she stuck to her guns in this scenario, you can bet he would never ever cheat on her! 

I so wish I had had her conviction when I encountered my situation. Such a different outcome. And of course, that kind of action states clearly that you are to be respected. States clearly where the line is drawn. And she was not to be messed with. Strong and decisive is the key. Consequences to being disrespected. No fear!


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

LostNSpace said:


> No, this is an "party" for the basketball players. He coached the jr high team this last season and she asst coached varsity.
> So, no drinking involved. Students will be there but that does not mean after the event they wont do something together.
> He was just awarded the hgh school varisty coach position and apparently she is going to be his assistant (another guy was supposed to be his asst). I found out this last night and justs about blew up.
> 
> ...


Use the anger as a tool to be strong and bullheaded. I hate to say that, but it will work out better if you can be stern with him. 

Also, don't tell him what you know. Tell him "I know what's been going on, and you're life is about to change now" He will start to squirm and ask you what you mean, blah blah blah, you're crazy and such. Just say "I know what you've been up to, and I'm going to give you a chance to tell me yourself" 
If he still denies it and won't break, then simply show him the texts. and don't say anything. Let him talk after that. And look him directly in the eyes the entire time. Don't cry either...I know that will be hard, but if you cry he will think he's got you in the bag, and he will twist things after that. 

Ask him VERY sternly "Have you slept with this woman, I want to hear it out of your mouth, and do not lie. If you lie we are done, you can pack your bags and get out" If he tries to redirect conversation, you need to ask the question over and over until he decides you are not going to let him get away with not answering. This is very important.

So long as he sees that you mean business, he will crack. 
He may even walk out just so he doesn't have to face anything. But if he does, it just confirms all of your fears. Someone who has nothing to hide, does not get angry or frustrated over accusations that are false.

And yes, go tell whoever you have to at the school.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Also, make sure you have your list of To-Do's for you and him if he decides to come clean and do the honourable thing. It's good to show that you are serious about this, and gives guidelines for the both of you


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

i used to go to the bar and stay out all night against my wifes objections.
never did *anything* but cause me trouble.
and i was out doing pretty much exactly what you are worried about.
there is absolutely no reason for a married man to be out boozin and carrying on until 4am. it should simply be...unacceptable.
i wish i had listened to my wife about it.
be firm with him.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

LostNSpace said:


> Carmen,
> 
> Please let me explain something. He started a new teaching job this past fall (that is how he met OW). *Ever since the job has started he has frequented the bar so often I have begun to lose track. In the past he would NEVER go to the bar. There are so many nights they go to the bar and I am stuck home with the kids. I have no idea what he is doing and I dont really know the people he is hanging out with. When this happens the normal routine is coming home about 4 a.m.* I have been very vocal that I dont like this and I become the "naggy" wife. I also get told if my friends werent such losers they would invite me out and I would get an oppurtunity to go out. I do get invites all the time to go out, but NEVER go. Mostly because I cant trust him to get the kids or actually come home on time like he is supposed to and not make an excuse that he has to do something else. I hardly ever go to the bar without him.
> 
> Dont get me wrong I would rather go together and do things with him. It always used to be like that in the past. I have a feeling though if we got a sitter he would want to go to the basketball event and send me off to the GF's bday party. So, if I go and have no sitter he has to sit home with the kids. I do admit that I have gotten to the point of being very resentful because I am always the one staying home with the kids while he goes off and has fun.


Dear LostNSpace,

I understand and I'm not saying that, in this case, in order to force him to stay home with the kids and away form the OW, you do wrong by going to a GF's birthday party at a bar.

But given what you said in your response, I think it all the more important that -- in the future -- you make it a requirement in your marriage that _neither_ of you go out drinking without the other.

Now is the time to set some ground rules about this and, if you're going to ask him to stop frequenting gin joints without you (which you should), you should promise to the same (which I doubt you will have a problem doing).

Good luck when you confront him. Remember to keep calm, tell him what you want and don't get involved in a lengthy discussion or argument about it. If he refuses to do as you request, let him know that D is the next step and then follow through.

It's time to learn if your WH really wants to be married to you or not and, if not, then it's time to start moving on to a life without him.


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## LostNSpace (Apr 15, 2013)

I have just accessed phone records. I am so mad I can hardly see straight. Sooooooo many texts. I am printing out bills with the numbers on them now so he cannot deny. Going to show him those too. 

My mind is racing....


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

Stay strong LostNSpace!


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Can you actually see what was said in the texts? or is it just phone numbers and dates?


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## LostNSpace (Apr 15, 2013)

somethingelse said:


> Can you actually see what was said in the texts? or is it just phone numbers and dates?


I can only see numbers. Wish I could figure out how to get print outs of the actual messages. 

Way to many text messages to justify anything but an A.

I think he is entrenched deeper than I had imagined.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think you'll find he hasn't been at the bar at all.

He is going to gaslight you big time.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

LostNSpace said:


> I can only see numbers. Wish I could figure out how to get print outs of the actual messages.
> 
> Way to many text messages to justify anything but an A.
> 
> I think he is entrenched deeper than I had imagined.



Yeah, if it's more than 3 or 4 than that's not good. More than 20, then really not good


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## LostNSpace (Apr 15, 2013)

somethingelse said:


> Yeah, if it's more than 3 or 4 than that's not good. More than 20, then really not good


I have the phone records from last September until now. These will definitely be shown to him.


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## LostNSpace (Apr 15, 2013)

yellowstar said:


> Stay strong LostNSpace!


Thank you! You dont know how bad I need that right now.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Hope it went well. I guarantee he will try/has tried gaslighting you. Lies, lies and lies. Only when they see the repurcussions will they start trying to fix...if indeed they want to fix.


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## LostNSpace (Apr 15, 2013)

Well, everyone here is right. He did not confess. Turned everything around on me and called me a liar and told me he couldnt trust me because I was snooping on him. My world has completely fallen apart. He had an "explanation" for everything I asked, but I of course did not put all my cards on the table last night so to speak. 

He says he is leaving. He has a sporting event he has to do tonight that wont be over until late, so I dont know if he will come home or not. He said that he is leaving Saturday in front of the kids. He also says he talked a lawyer and I wont get anything. I know this is a crock and hasnt spoken to a lawyer.

I dont know what to do at this point. I want to call his bluff on the lawyer and I dont think he will actually leave at all and even if he does he probably wont leave for more than a few days. I also doubt he will call a lawyer 

Do they calm down? Does it take them a few days and then they come groveling back?


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## LostNSpace (Apr 15, 2013)

Ok, I just checked his email this morning. He didnt change password but all the stuff he kept on there is now deleted. Some pics and messages. He knows he has been caught. He is now covering his tracks.


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## No longer Blind (Apr 5, 2013)

I am so sorry you are going thru this. I too just found out about my WH and am dealing with everything that goes with it. I read your post yesterday and thought of you this morning. Stay strong.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Why didn't you tell him you had already talked to a lawyer and laugh in his face? You are walking on eeggshells instead of being tough.

Go here it is time for the 180 and I don't recommend this lightly. I would post it but its copyrighted.

The Healing Heart: The 180

If you to keep your backbone straight and stand up to his crap your marriage is finished.

Contact the OM. If he leaves contact the AD. Let his parents know what he is doing for sure.

The late nights, bar trips, $200 withdrawal? I'm guessing the 200 was for a hotel. I would bet that this has been physical for a long time unless the texts you read had info in them that it definitely isn't.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

My son was heavily involved in sports. His last basketball caoch was kicked out for inappropriate behavior with a student and a female teacher. A few years before that the girls lesbian caoch and her assistant was kicked out. This reall ticks me off. A man that cheats should not be around our kids.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If you contact the AD, contact the school board too.


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## LostNSpace (Apr 15, 2013)

chapparal said:


> Why didn't you tell him you had already talked to a lawyer and laugh in his face? You are walking on eeggshells instead of being tough.
> 
> Go here it is time for the 180 and I don't recommend this lightly. I would post it but its copyrighted.
> 
> ...


 I have read the 180. He is the one not talking to me now. Its like the tables are turned. He is treating me like I am the one that did something wrong in our marriage. He is the one calling me names because I snooped on him. He is telling me that he cant trust me. He does not know the extent of the information I have. 

I didnt tell him I had talked to a lawyer because I did not want to escalate anything further. He was more calm than I expected but was still angry and near the end just started grapsing at straws really. 

What is OM? If its the BF I sent a facebook message to the guy I think it is asking if he was her BF. I have not heard anything back. I am guessing I wont.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

LostNSpace said:


> Well, everyone here is right. He did not confess. Turned everything around on me and called me a liar and told me he couldnt trust me because I was snooping on him. My world has completely fallen apart. He had an "explanation" for everything I asked, but I of course did not put all my cards on the table last night so to speak.
> 
> He says he is leaving. He has a sporting event he has to do tonight that wont be over until late, so I dont know if he will come home or not. He said that he is leaving Saturday in front of the kids. He also says he talked a lawyer and I wont get anything. I know this is a crock and hasnt spoken to a lawyer.
> 
> ...


Ok. So now if you have the nerve to do it today, you have to go file for separation, and get it on paper how serious you are. And no, you will not lose anything, in fact, you will get a lot of things out of this. Are you willing to leave him if need be? 

He's only angry that you caught him, because he doesn't think you have proof, so he has turned it on you now to use it for his purposes. He will use this anger to have a physical affair, probably tonight if he has not had one with her yet. This is what cheaters do to justify cheating. They use whatever excuse they can to feel ok about it.

There will be no grovelling from him, because he does not feel threatened by you. He also thinks you have absolutely no proof. Grovelling only happens when you lay down the law. Like a bull that cannot be moved. When you have undeniable proof of his actions. But you did not show him the texts, so he does not grovel even a bit. 

But now, if you want to show that you are not his doormat, you have to go talk with a lawyer today, and go to the school to tell whoever you have to about this A he's been having. This crap needs to end quickly. 

What kinds of "excuses" did he have? What did he say last night? Did he even mention texting her at all?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

LostNSpace said:


> I have read the 180. He is the one not talking to me now. Its like the tables are turned. He is treating me like I am the one that did something wrong in our marriage. He is the one calling me names because I snooped on him. He is telling me that he cant trust me. He does not know the extent of the information I have.
> 
> I didnt tell him I had talked to a lawyer because I did not want to escalate anything further. He was more calm than I expected but was still angry and near the end just started grapsing at straws really.
> 
> What is OM? If its the BF I sent a facebook message to the guy I think it is asking if he was her BF. I have not heard anything back. I am guessing I wont.


I miss typed OM, should have said BF.

If I were you, I would print out the divorce papers for your state and make sure he got a good look at them. If you can't get them online you can get the packet at the county courthouse.

You need to go on offense, instead you are playing defense and he is controlling how this is going to go. That never works.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you mentioned you know who the affair is with to him?


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Make backups of any evidence you find. 

He's gaslighting you because he thinks he can get away with it if he denies enough.

Don't let him play the victem. If he starts acting like you're the one with a problem kick him out. He will eventually learn that tactic doesn't work.


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## LostNSpace (Apr 15, 2013)

somethingelse said:


> Ok. So now if you have the nerve to do it today, you have to go file for separation, and get it on paper how serious you are. And no, you will not lose anything, in fact, you will get a lot of things out of this. Are you willing to leave him if need be?
> 
> He's only angry that you caught him, because he doesn't think you have proof, so he has turned it on you now to use it for his purposes. He will use this anger to have a physical affair, probably tonight if he has not had one with her yet. This is what cheaters do to justify cheating. They use whatever excuse they can to feel ok about it.
> 
> ...



I did try and show him a couple of the incriminating texts. He didnt even look at them and started tearing them up. I was quoting a few of the phrases word for word, so he had to have known I had them. 

His excuse for texting so much is that they were both having problems in their relationships and they talked to each other about them. When I asked about some other specifics in a couple of the texts he said he was talking about me which is complete BS. You can tell its not about me. 
After that it just pretty much went round and round. I stopped talking and went to the other room where he then started to fb chat me. That went no where.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

He's busted and he knows it. He's trying to get you to back down so the subject can be dropped and he can go back to his old routine. If you let him do that the A will continue underground and even get worse. If he ends the A but you let him rug sweep he will have another A later.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

LostNSpace said:


> I did try and show him a couple of the incriminating texts. He didnt even look at them and started tearing them up. I was quoting a few of the phrases word for word, so he had to have known I had them.
> 
> His excuse for texting so much is that they were both having problems in their relationships and they talked to each other about them. When I asked about some other specifics in a couple of the texts he said he was talking about me which is complete BS. You can tell its not about me.
> After that it just pretty much went round and round. I stopped talking and went to the other room where he then started to fb chat me. That went no where.



Yeah...he's panicking now. It's very obvious he is cheating. Not wanting to look at texts that he wrote to OW? Wow. There's your sign. He's trying to throw you off now. Spin you around in circles until you are so confused you don't know what's true or not anymore even though you already know he's cheating (but he doesn't know that you have proof that's why he's scraping at the bottom of the barrel for excuses) Great tactic to get you away from topics he doesn't want you to talk about. You can't let him do this to you.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

chapparal said:


> I miss typed OM, should have said BF.
> 
> If I were you, I would print out the divorce papers for your state and make sure he got a good look at them. If you can't get them online you can get the packet at the county courthouse.
> 
> You need to go on offense, instead you are playing defense and he is controlling how this is going to go. That never works.


Exactly...he's trying to gain control of the situation. The minute he feels like the situation is not in his control, and he's losing the battle, he will grovel. Right now he's using anger as a tactic to put you on the defense, and make you concentrate on YOU instead of his cheating.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

yep. step back. you did right by walking off.
its time to bring the thunder down upon him. take somethingelse's advice and go file.
offense.
you want to be in control here.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Well done for seeing through his gaslighting. Mine did that to me for a long time. I didn't realise what he was doing, it was before I discovered this site. Namecalling, the problems I had, what was wrong with me etc. All to take the spotlight off him. All grasping at straws in order to preserve his sorry ass and his affair. 

Your husband's mind is now whirring with questions and panic. What do you know, how much do you know, how do you know, and how is he going to worm his way out of this one. You need to come down hard on him while he is trying to gather himself. Get him while he is on the back foot. Don't wait til he has time to discuss with her and regroup his thoughts.

Definitely time to go on the offensive now. He refuses to come clean? Fine. He has to leave then. He wants to leave? Fine. Time to discuss the separation and get out the divorce papers. 

By doing this he will know you are serious. He will know you mean business. And he will either leave in anger (because it is an exit affair) or he will realise the game is up and come down from his lying cheating high horse (because he wants his marriage and family in tact). 

Be strong, be assertive. Do not give an inch. Do not back down. His actions, his repurcussions.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Remains said:


> Well done for seeing through his gaslighting. Mine did that to me for a long time. I didn't realise what he was doing, it was before I discovered this site. Namecalling, the problems I had, what was wrong with me etc. All to take the spotlight off him. All grasping at straws in order to preserve his sorry ass and his affair.
> 
> Your husband's mind is now whirring with questions and panic. What do you know, how much do you know, how do you know, and how is he going to worm his way out of this one. You need to come down hard on him while he is trying to gather himself. Get him while he is on the back foot. Don't wait til he has time to discuss with her and regroup his thoughts.
> 
> ...



:iagree:


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Lost,

How are you doing? Any updates?


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