# Marriage advice



## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Hi all

I started a quite lengthy post but the laptop deleted it for me so I shall try again!

As some of you might know, my OH had a thing with a girl at work last year. Very short-lived but had lasting repercussions. We did counselling and have moved forward.

Prior to this I had posted about him dragging his feet about getting married. We had eventually arranged just prior to the above to get married late last year and I wondered at the time if what he did was a sign that he didn't want to get married but he says not. He took marriage off the cards right after he told me what had happened with the girl saying we couldn't get married if I didn't trust him.

Anyway in December things were good and I told him I wanted us to make definite plans by the end of the year to get married or I was leaving. I felt I had waited long enough and didn't want to be strung along. We set a date for this year.

We have been making plans for a small ceremony and a short honeymoon after. Things were fine up until recently.

I have been making the arrangements. Initially I asked that he set the wheels in motion as a good faith gesture but he said practically it was easier for me to as he is at work all day and can't always use his phone. Okay.

A couple of weeks ago I was particularly happy with the world (LOL!) I was telling him what I was looking forward to about us being married and asked him the same. Innocent question. He thought I was "testing" him, got all defensive, said he didn't know, and that "nothing would change." I had to ask, well why do you *want* to get married then? He said he didn't know. I asked (genuinely) would he prefer it if we stayed together as long-term "partners" as we are now, without being married? He thought and said no, that wasn't what he wanted. Started off a happy exchange and went rapidly downhill.

I have noticed that he hasn't expressed much interest in the ceremony or the being married. He is all about arranging the honeymoon. I gather this can be quite normal?! From where I'm standing though, you'd think he was quite happy at going on holiday and that was it.

And with me... I have developed some crippling doubts as to whether I'm doing the right thing. Oh the complete and utter irony! I don't know why but I am plagued with thoughts I haven't had for months about what happened with "that" girl, things pop into my head about times he treated me really badly, the ridiculous things he did and said. Thoughts I really don't want to be thinking about. It's like my head is saying, are you sure you want to be with someone you KNOW can treat you like that? Logically I know that he erred, he is human and we all make mistakes and that he has gone a long way to mend it. Logically I can reason a lot of things, like I can never be certain of the future and it IS taking a risk but that is part of being vulnerable and trusting. Then I think back to what I now know he is capable of and ask myself WHY would I want to marry someone who did that?

I just keep thinking I am making a huge mistake. That he doesn't LOOK like he's particularly interested in being married. I know that a long-term effect of what happened is I find it really hard to believe that he truly loves me. I think my heart says if he loved me he wouldn't have trodden all over my feelings. But I know what he did wasn't ABOUT me but about him.

I mean, I know it's normal to have doubts and whatnot. I should be ecstatic because being married to him was what I wanted. So why aren't I? And what can I do? I feel so lost and utterly confused. And a little disappointed: I never thought THIS would be my engagement--->marriage experience.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

I see a couple of things going on here. 

You are rightly unsure if you should marry him. I have read soem of you previous posts, but don't recall when your bf's relationship occurred. Since it was last year, I think that taking some time to get settled back in, and letting him build up your trust, is a good thing. I suspect you are not healed from it. Rushing into a marriage when you are not sure is almost always a recipe for disaster.

The other issue I see is your disappointment that he is not excited about the wedding. I think that is very common. I could have married my wife with her, me and the justice of the peace and been very happy. The actual details of the wedding were a much bigger deal to her. I faked interest because I knew it was important to her, but if I had been tasked with doing much, it likely would not have been done. I was, however, all over the honeymoon. It was a time to take a vacation with the woman I loved - what was not to get excited about?


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

He cheated on you before you are married and you still want to marry him why? Cut your losses and move on. Why oh why is it so hard for us to move on when we are in love? He is demonstrating what it will be like to be married to him... do you really want a life of distrust, wondering, "good conversation" going downhill fast... ? He is showing you who he is, dont expect him to be something else, this is who he is.

next time you post I hope it is telling us that you have indeed moved on before getting legally bound into a situation that is staring you in the face screaming at you. 

Maybe its my advancing age or life experiences, but people generally show you who they are and if you proceed with them seeing yet denying who they are, its your own fault. Please for your sake and your sanity, move away from this man unless you want the above scenario over and over and over again...


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

toolate said:


> people generally show you who they are and if you proceed with them seeing yet denying who they are, its your own fault. Please for your sake and your sanity, move away from this man unless you want the above scenario over and over and over again...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

tobio said:


> I mean, I know it's normal to have doubts and whatnot. I should be ecstatic because being married to him was what I wanted. So why aren't I? And what can I do? I feel so lost and utterly confused. And a little disappointed: I never thought THIS would be my engagement--->marriage experience.


I'm a woman hovering in the Men's Clubhouse but I'm wondering what your reasons were for wanting to marry him when you were having an enthusiastic "all is right with the world day" ...and I have to say that I think it's adorable you laughed at yourself when you wrote this.

It sounds completely normal that you're concerned that he's not showing excitement about the wedding, and that you have trust issues because of his previous actions. Being married to him won't help to heal these wounds. Are you doubting that he loves you? 

You are completely deserving of a loving, supportive relationship but don't "fall" for the illusion that has been sold as this magical time of engagement and the wedding. Oh boy, do I sound deeply cynical haha. I'm sorry. What I mean is, if you have issues in your relationship, they are still going to be there whether you have an expectation of how things "should" be, of that image that you hope for. He is still who he is.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

i wanted nothing to do with the wedding arrangements either, does any man?

also, women need to just quit asking loaded questions.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tobio,
I hope my questions don't offend you - they are not intended to do so. 

- Does he earn substantially more/have a much higher net worth than you do? I ask because if he does - that means if you two end up parting ways for whatever reason down the road I expect there would be an adverse financial impact to him.
- Do you harbor any hopes at all that after being married for a while, he might some day adopt your children?

If getting married is a financial "non" event to both of you - I imagine the main driver is "stability/commitment". And there is nothing wrong with that. I am pro-stability. 

Most "grown up" guys - are a bit wary of marriage. Many Women thrive in marriage - and in stability. Many men as well. It is also true that "sometimes" stability makes one or the other spouse "overly" comfortable and they make less effort. 





tobio said:


> Hi all
> 
> I started a quite lengthy post but the laptop deleted it for me so I shall try again!
> 
> ...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Sounds like you were fitness testing him.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Hi all. I can't multiquote but will here are some answers to things...

I know from anecdotes from friends that their men never really took an interest in the arrangements. That doesn't bother me so much, it's more he has never expressed any interest in the actual BEING married part. At risk of sounding flippant, it would be very nice to hear just something. Like how he can't imagine being without me. He's found "the one." You know, something that shows a little tiny bit of passion. That shows he is invested in being married. 

I have lots of reasons. I don't have time to list them all! I told him I couldn't wait for me and him to be husband and wife, it says so much more to me to be his wife than "just" his girlfriend. That I want to grow old with him, bb I love him very much and all the cute and funny things we do and enjoy together, I want those for always with him. 

We're not "rich" financially either of us. It is about commitment and security.

I wouldn't expect him to adopt my older two. They see their dad regularly and that wouldn't happen.

Was I fitness testing him?  I'll tell you my thoughts because I don't know, looking back at it. I was in a great mood, happy about the future. I told him the above about what I was looking forward to about being married. It was very much one of those "I feel so very full of love for you and want to share it" moments. I genuinely was interested to know how he felt, if his reasons were the same, different. I wasn't expecting, "I don't know." I was crushed. For a moment I pictured being in his shoes and not being able to think of a reason why I was happy to be getting married and I thought well why is he if he doesn't know?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

I was writing dates on this year's calendar earlier and I mentioned about going to give notice (not sure what this is called in the US, where you go to the register office to check you're all legal to marry, you are who you say you are etc.)

Said I was really excited about it all. Asked him. "Erm, I don't know. Are you?"

My head is spinning. Think I need to go and lie down...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Is it that difficult to accept him as he is?



tobio said:


> I was writing dates on this year's calendar earlier and I mentioned about going to give notice (not sure what this is called in the US, where you go to the register office to check you're all legal to marry, you are who you say you are etc.)
> 
> Said I was really excited about it all. Asked him. "Erm, I don't know. Are you?"
> 
> ...


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

It seems so. 

In my defence, he has not always been like this. He used to be very open and affectionate. I was never in any doubt earlier in our relationship of how he felt.

Now he is a closed book. He says he has always been like this but he hasn't. In my head, gradual change to showing less openness and affection + last year + wanting to stay together + now wanting to get married = me very confused. Call me crazy but I would hazard to think that a man who wants to be married will, at some point, indicate that he is happy about it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

HELLLOOOOOOO!!!!!! This should be more about the "he cheated on me" part and less on the "he's not that excited about being married" part. Do you think the 2 are related? Thats a rhetorical ? if you didnt know. The guilt about cheating will be much greater for him after he marries... now its not really "cheating" to him bc you are just dating and engaged. The way it is now, he can have his cake and eat it too with no strings attached. He has shown you his true colors before marriage... get away now, unless you are willing to accept him as a cheater. If you can love him that way and not view negatively, than you are a match made in heaven, and go for it. But the way you are idealizing your relationship and the shoulds you have about it being better just simply based on saying I do... is setting yourself up for harsh reality being dashed. 

Go in if you must... but dont go into this marriage with blinders on that he is someone he isnt, or will become someone he wont become. He will not revert back to expressing more love for you. He will not NOT cheat on you simply bc you have rings on and a piece of paper (he may not cheat but you have shown him its ok to cheat and you will stay... so hes more likely to). He will not just become all that you expect him to become bc you get married. It just doesnt happen like in the fairy tales. A person doesnt magically change for the better just bc of marriage, they change bc they want to... he has shownand told you he isnt excited about all your expectations. Dont come back and say "I got duped... how could he do this to me?" Although many of us will still be here...


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

tobio said:


> It seems so.
> 
> In my defence, he has not always been like this. He used to be very open and affectionate. I was never in any doubt earlier in our relationship of how he felt.
> 
> ...


He sounds like my husband in this description... except he is shoing you more true colors before marriage and mine waited until the day after we got married to let loose. He may be like this, the man you fell in love with may have been just him excited at the beginning of a relationship... this is who he really is. Like it or not, he is telling and showing you who he is NOW. You either like him this way and marry him or dont like him this way and dont. Do not think he is going to revert back as this is who he is... make your choice based on who he is now not in the beginning wonderful phase of a relationship... we are all wonderful back then!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Until you can accept him, don't marry him.

If some "lack of response" on his part is enough to destroy your day, then you're codependent.

Work on yourself until you aren't.




tobio said:


> It seems so.
> 
> In my defence, he has not always been like this. He used to be very open and affectionate. I was never in any doubt earlier in our relationship of how he felt.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

You are NOT crazy. I would not marry someone who was not willing to say "I WANT to get up there and say I DO". Somehow he is reacting to you as if you are being clingy instead of committed. I don't know why - but you need to fix this before you proceed. And his pattern of treating you worse - in terms of being closed off - is a bad sign of inks to come post marriage. Proceed with caution.


QUOTE=tobio;558074]It seems so. 

In my defence, he has not always been like this. He used to be very open and affectionate. I was never in any doubt earlier in our relationship of how he felt.

Now he is a closed book. He says he has always been like this but he hasn't. In my head, gradual change to showing less openness and affection + last year + wanting to stay together + now wanting to get married = me very confused. Call me crazy but I would hazard to think that a man who wants to be married will, at some point, indicate that he is happy about it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

tobio said:


> It seems so.
> 
> In my defence, he has not always been like this. He used to be very open and affectionate. I was never in any doubt earlier in our relationship of how he felt.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you are caught up in the excitement of getting married and the wedding. Him not so much. But even more concerning is that, as you say he does not seem so excited about getting married, or being married.

Don't marry a man who is not completely enthused about marrying you. This time you are going through right now.. this is what your marriage will be like... him not sure and you not sure that he wants to be there.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

The actual ceremony we're having is the very minimal you need to be married. So it's not a matter of me being cqught up in arrangements as there really isn't much to do now nor was there. I am looking forward to exchanging vows of course. When we have our conversations he always comes back at me with, "well what do YOU think will be different about being married?" like he can't imagine anything will be different. That is when I ask him why he wants to get married and he says he doesn't know.

I do believe that saying about when someone shows you who they are, believe them. Either I'm misreading what he is showing me, I'm in denial or I need to accept what I see. I don't know which it is.

We had an exchange yesterday. I articulated my doubts and explained a lot of stuff I said here. He said he dors not know what else he can do to make me believe this is what he wants. He does not want to be stuck in the past and he cannot deal with this emotional rollercoaster much longer. That I need to make a decision on what I want to do and soon: ie not after we get married. I agreed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

An update...

We had a particularly bad "discussion" about this whereby he kept hearing something different to what I was saying. I was asking him to put himself in my shoes and look back at the last year and see if he could understand after everything that's happened, why I felt a little unsure and confused and wanted some affirmation from him. He thought I was wanting him to tell me how sorry he is for what happened last year which was not what I meant at all. I don't want to revisit "there".

Anyway, we called a truce, hugged and had a quiet evening. This morning I got up with the kids and he'd gone to work and left me a short letter. It said how much he was looking forward to getting married, that he was sorry he found opening up so hard. That he's looking forward to building a future for us and for our family. And the absolute clincher at the end? 

He signed it, "always yours." Funny how two little words from someone who NEVER writes soppy love letters can mean the world. I cried and I felt sad but happy at the same time. Very poignant choice of words methinks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

More...

At the weekend we had a massive fallout. He was angry at me as I'd looked at some text messages on his mobile. First he said he was angry as I'd been "sneaky"; later he said it was because I obviously still didn't trust him.

From my perspective, I do check from time to time. We have a transparency policy; for example we'll leave our phones out when we're not in the room and it's open access if wanted. I might look at his stuff but it's nowhere near as often as months back. 

I don't think by any means he is up to anything. I do think what happened was out of character and a one-off. I do have the odd moment. I check now and again and frankly it is reassuring to me to see nothing. 

Thing is, he is looking for a complete shutdown and forgetting of what happened, moving forward never to mention anything to do with it ever again. Thing is the only time it ever gets brought up is if I see something questionable or he does or says something "triggery.". I've never brought it up as a weapon or anything remotely like that. I've always been careful not to.

The upshot of it was he said I am mad to want to get married if I feel like that still. That he doesn't want to if I still don't trust him and we should basically hold off.

The thing... Our appointment to do the paperwork is next week. I mentioned it last night intending cancelling it and looking at things further down the line. He was all good to go for it. I spoke about moving the wedding date and suggested alternative dates. He said, "whatever makes you happy babe."

I'm utterly confused. One minute we're all set, next minute it's off, next it's on again. The mad thing is nothing has actually changed during any of that. He always knew how I felt. I suppose when faced with it he didn't like accepting I still looked at his things from time to time even though he knew it were the case.

Not sure what to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Call it off for now.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Yep. I think that's best. Trouble is I don't know where I am. I thought I was realistic in getting over things, that it would take time. I see it like things gradually getting back to a normality, a completely liveable one where things ARE different but we've learned from them. I think he sees it as there being some arbitary (sp?) deadline whereupon I have fully "recovered" and things change to a "it never really happened" future. One where he doesn't get reminded of what a pr!ck he was and can pretend he really wasn't.

I guess I don't know: when will I know it's the right time?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

tobio said:


> Yep. I think that's best. Trouble is I don't know where I am. I thought I was realistic in getting over things, that it would take time. I see it like things gradually getting back to a normality, a completely liveable one where things ARE different but we've learned from them. I think he sees it as there being some arbitary (sp?) deadline whereupon I have fully "recovered" and things change to a "it never really happened" future. One where he doesn't get reminded of what a pr!ck he was and can pretend he really wasn't.
> 
> I guess I don't know: when will I know it's the right time?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When you both see it the same way.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I agree with Conrad about calling things off for now.

Keep in mind he doesn't seem to care one way or another if you get married. So this is your show - do it when it feels right to YOU.

One other thing - I second the co-dependent thing. (I am trying to recover from that myself so maybe takes one to know one, lol.) If him writing "always yours" on a letter can turn your day from sadness to joy, you may want to consider you are a little too heavily invested in him for your mood/happiness.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

toolate said:


> He cheated on you before you are married and you still want to marry him why? Cut your losses and move on. Why oh why is it so hard for us to move on when we are in love? He is demonstrating what it will be like to be married to him... do you really want a life of distrust, wondering, "good conversation" going downhill fast... ? He is showing you who he is, dont expect him to be something else, this is who he is.
> 
> next time you post I hope it is telling us that you have indeed moved on before getting legally bound into a situation that is staring you in the face screaming at you.
> 
> Maybe its my advancing age or life experiences, but people generally show you who they are and if you proceed with them seeing yet denying who they are, its your own fault. Please for your sake and your sanity, move away from this man unless you want the above scenario over and over and over again...


:iagree::iagree: He has already shown you who he is.

It seems like you are prepared to look the other way, so it is unlikely that you will heed the sage words above.

Men are almost never excited about the wedding. They do not care about details and arrangements; they only want to be married to their wives and spend the honeymoon boinking. 

I was angry with my husband when we were engaged, since he had no interest whatsoever in the details. I made all the calls and picked everything. When I told my hubby that his lack of enthusiasm hurt me and made me question his intentions, my husband just told me that he wanted to get the wedding over with so that we could finally be a married couple.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

For clarity's sake, I should say he didn't have an affair in the sense of being unfaithful. He got caught up in an infatuation with a girl at work who pursued him and they ended up kissing. He left that job and she continued to fish, he went NC and fell once, I found out and kicked him out. We reconciled and went to counselling which was good for both of us. He's been good at rebuilding trust.

That's the abridged version anyway. My belief is that he slipped, understands why and so can avoid it again. I don't think it defines him. He is very ashamed and remorseful and still I don't think has reconciled what he did with who he is. He can't believe *that* was him. I don't think it is who he is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Kissing is cheating my books; it is still intimate and inappropriate physical contact. In fact, anything that he wouldn't want you to see, hear or read is infidelity.

You know him a better than we do. If you feel that your fiance will not cheat again, take your risks. Just don't ever say you were never warned when/if it happens after you are married.


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