# Should I force my son to see his dad?



## theworkwidow (Feb 24, 2016)

I just informed my 12 year old son that his father and I are separating and most likely will divorce. We will probably be living at a minimum of 200 miles apart since I intend to move back home (central NY) and he will probably move down to the NYC/NJ area. My son says he doesn't want to have overnights with his dad because his dad is verbally abusive to him and has almost completely ignored him for the past year. I'm debating whether to force him to spend time with his father if his father even cares enough to want it. Which sadly there is at least a chance he won't even want to be bothered. But I'm sure the court will want to push some sort of visitation schedule with his dad and I doubt they'll consider it abuse just because his dad yells at him a lot about his poor grades. My H is actually threatening me with having son DNA tested which to me says a lot about how little he really cares about him. I got the impression from our last conversation that he'd love to be able to terminate his parental rights and not have to pay child support.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

I don't think you should force him to go when he has a legitimate reason not to. It would be one thing if he didn't want to go because it's boring, or because he doesn't have all his stuff there, but his Dad really wants to be a part of his life and is a good and caring father.

I know this is tough - at that age, my parents were divorced and my Dad was living with a woman who was regularly verbally abusive to me and my brothers. Last thing I wanted to do was go be systematically made to feel small at a time in my life when I was already getting that at school and at every other turn. But you want your child to have his father - or a decent father figure - in his life.

I think it's OK to side with your son on this.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

theworkwidow said:


> My H is actually threatening me with having son DNA tested which to me says a lot about how little he really cares about him. I got the impression from our last conversation that he'd love to be able to terminate his parental rights and not have to pay child support.


I don't know where you are, but in my state parental rights may be signed away or terminated by court order, but that doesn't relieve the parent of the obligation to pay child support.

He can DNA test your son, but that won't help him much. Even if he isn't the father, he is the "putative father". Basically, according to the courts in most states, if you've been legally listed as father and acting as father, you're the father after X amount of time, even with no biological relation.

To answer your question, no. No, I don't think you should force your son to visit his father if he doesn't want to. My ex was a real piece of work. After we divorced, my kids stopped wanting to see him or speak to him after a few months due to his poor behavior. I saw no reason to force them.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sure. Force your son to endure more abuse.

That is the best idea ever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EVG39 (Jun 4, 2015)

Ask your lawyer. Bet she gives you the same unpopular answer that I will . Yes you should. Sorry. Divorce especially at the beginning sucks.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Do not ever force your son into such an awkward situation!

Get with your attorney and give him the particulars so that it can be presented in court! If anything, he can have supervised visitation with him!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## theworkwidow (Feb 24, 2016)

So my lawyer says if my son doesn't want to have unsupervised visits with his dad, he'll have to see a court appointed child psychologist to determine if there is just cause for unsupervised visitation to be denied. He says just my son's statements that his father has called him stupid, moron, etc won't really mean much unless a psychologist says that damage has been done and will continue. Of course all of this will be moot if my H doesn't want to see him. I'm going to have to get some things done pretty quickly though, son has a class trip out of state coming up in 2 months and it requires parental approval (signatures) from both parents. H has not responded to any of my requests for him to sign the paperwork. Nor will he sign off on son getting his passport which sucks because my parents go to Canada every summer and would like us to be able to go with them this year. I can already see that this is going to be a far more complicated divorce than my sister had a couple of years ago. Her exH wanted his AP so badly he gave my sis everything she asked for just to be done with the marriage.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

I wouldn't "force" your son unless your H asks to see him and I bet he won't. My ex lives 500 miles away and he decided three times a year for a week is the right amount to see them. 

My boys are 13 and 15 and they are pretty good at fending off verbal or physical attacks (which BTW have not been an issue during his three weeks visitation since our split a year ago)

I wouldn't make a big legal issue out of it either lest your H take that as a challenge he needs to "win". Let your son and his dad navigate their own relationship and stay out of it as much as possible.


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## Annie123 (Apr 27, 2015)

I think your son will blossom after the D as there will be nobody around to put him down and call him all the mean names during the most sensitive years of his life. No, you should not force him to go and see his dad but it's very likely that you won't have to because your H won't even want to see him. I really hope he regrets all this one day. What he's doing to you guys is appalling. I have no words for him.

So what even if DNA shows he's not your son's father? It's not like you cheated on him, it was an IVF procedure and if he's not the father, it has nothing to do with you and has everything to do with the doctors who did the IVF. He's been your son's father for 12 years and now wants that to end because it will be more convenient for him that way? Believe me, your son is better off without a 'father' like that.


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## theworkwidow (Feb 24, 2016)

It really is sad. H was a great dad until son reached about 3rd grade when he started having trouble in school. He was diagnosed after about a year with partial hearing loss, mild Asperger's, and mild ADHD. My H insisted on an IQ test and son came in around 120. I'm around 140 and H is around 180. This is where all the trouble started. Within less than a year he had taken the job where he was hardly ever home. I hadn't really connected the two before but I'm starting to think his behavior really is escapism - from a child he's actually ashamed to admit is his own flesh and blood. It makes me so mad. When I think about all the wonderful parents out there raising and loving kids who are far more seriously disabled, both mentally and physically, that he could walk away like this because "I couldn't have produced a child like that. It's just not possible." Which is basically what he said to me after son had the IQ tests. I guess I should be glad that I'm starting to understand what caused his unreasonable behavior over the past couple of years, but right now I'm just so incredibly angry at him!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Of course you are angry. He is a jerk.

Parents earn the relationship they have with their kids. Please respect your child by letting him decide the extent of his relationship with his father.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

First, I somehow doubt that -- from a legal perspective -- your husband giving up his _parental *rights*_ will absolve him of his _parental *responsibility*_.

Second, no... I wouldn't advise that anyone force his or her child to spend time w/ an uninterested, irresponsible, and neglectful (other) parent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

that's sooo rejecting! Please don't tell your son what his father said. 

Hopefully you can get him involved in activities where he has positive male role models and gets affirmation. My sons are in sports and the pastor of our church has been very good to and for them.

Your 180 IQ H is highly deficient in EQ.


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## theworkwidow (Feb 24, 2016)

Maybe force was the wrong word. I guess my real concern is what if H DOES ask for overnight visits or unsupervised visitation and the court doesn't find sufficient grounds not to grant it? In that case, I legally HAVE to let him have unsupervised time with our son, correct? I mean, that seems to be what my lawyer is telling me.

The lawyer has also suggested that we go ahead and do the DNA test without H's knowledge. We can apparently get his DNA from a hair and his hairbrush is still sitting on the upstairs bathroom sink. Then if he requests it in court it will already be done and we can just give him the results. The lawyer says if we get lucky he might actually show his true colors when faced with proof that our son truly is his, maybe actually say something in front of the court like he has said to me in the past about how it's not possible that he could have fathered a stupid child. That would lose him his visitation rights all by itself.
Of course there is the slim chance (very slim) that H has been right all along and the Drs did screw up. I wouldn't have believed it but the lawyer tells me it really has happened. Scary. If that is the case I am legally obliged to do everything in my power to find son's biological father and the whole thing could easily become a total nightmare as a total stranger could suddenly have legal rights to him. I don't even want to think about THAT possibility.


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

Your husband is just outrageous to think that IQ is entirely inherited and that kids will have an IQ in the same range as their parents. For him to even question your son's DNA is just cruel. 

ETA, yes kids inherit intelligence from parents but different generic combos are possible. My parents both have IQs in the range of 110 to 120. I ended up in the 140 range, but have a sister with an IQ of 70 and 5 other siblings ranging from 100 to 130. Same with my husband. His parents have IQs in the average to above average range, yet he has a high IQ. And he also has siblings ranging from very low IQ (learning disabled) to just average.

And a kid with an IQ of 120 is not learning disabled! He might have some social and behavioral issues but 120 IQ is well above average. In the right environment and with his dad not ruining his self confidence, your son might do much better in school. It seems your husband may have a very high IQ but obviously has a lot of interpersonal and social issues that have kept him from being very successful (lots of lost jobs, kicked out of graduate program, etc). So IQ obviously does not determine success. But an IQ of 120 is more than sufficient for obtaining a good education (with help if needed on social and behavioral issues) and being very successful in life. Many people with very high IQs have far greater problems in life than those with below average IQs. The kids in the gifted programs can have far more issues than the kids in the learning disabled programs!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Try not to panic. You are under a lot of stress and that can lead to great imaginings.

It is sad that a lot of children are legally forced into visitation with abusive parents. There is a Facebook page on this called Safe Kids International.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

theworkwidow said:


> Maybe force was the wrong word. I guess my real concern is what if H DOES ask for overnight visits or unsupervised visitation and the court doesn't find sufficient grounds not to grant it? In that case, I legally HAVE to let him have unsupervised time with our son, correct? I mean, that seems to be what my lawyer is telling me.
> 
> The lawyer has also suggested that we go ahead and do the DNA test without H's knowledge. We can apparently get his DNA from a hair and his hairbrush is still sitting on the upstairs bathroom sink. Then if he requests it in court it will already be done and we can just give him the results. The lawyer says if we get lucky he might actually show his true colors when faced with proof that our son truly is his, maybe actually say something in front of the court like he has said to me in the past about how it's not possible that he could have fathered a stupid child. That would lose him his visitation rights all by itself.
> Of course there is the slim chance (very slim) that H has been right all along and the Drs did screw up. I wouldn't have believed it but the lawyer tells me it really has happened. Scary. If that is the case I am legally obliged to do everything in my power to find son's biological father and the whole thing could easily become a total nightmare as a total stranger could suddenly have legal rights to him. I don't even want to think about THAT possibility.


Yeah you are going to have to see how this plays out in courts. Here if the father wanted visitation he is going to get it. Around age 14 is when they start to evaluate the requests of the actual child. I wouldn't worry about what you should do cause my guess is soon the courts are going to tell you what you have to do


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## EVG39 (Jun 4, 2015)

Your lawyer is giving you excellent advice and you have an excellent case. The only way you blow it is to walk into a parental alienation claim. Listen to her not us.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Why would you force your son to see a guy who not only doesn't want him but you have reason to believe is actively abusing alcohol and drugs?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

I really wouldn't sweat the visitation issue. It does not sound like this man is going to be pushing it but if you go in with legal guns blazing it'll get his hackles up and become warfare (and TBH I think lawyers LOVE that- it makes their paychecks fatter!)

I do agree with the lawyer that you go ahead and quietly get the DNA test done and not tell your ex nor your son the results.

My H is DEFINITELY the sons' biodad and he's voluntarily out of the picture. Yours sounds even more inclined to delete himself from your son's life.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I truly hope your son gets some protection from his abusive father, but one thing you can do regardless of what happens legally with your husband is you can teach your son how to recognize abuse and empower him to respond to it effectively. Study everything you can get your hands on to equip YOURSELF and then use that knowledge to effectively equip your son. 

He needs a voice.

He needs skill.

And right now because of his age, your permission to make a stand for himself.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

I understand the mama bear, believe me, but a 12 yo is old enough to pick up the phone and call the police if his dad gets too aggressive.

Soon he will be as big or bigger than his dad. My 15 yo has defended himself physically with ex and has told me he doesn't want to be treated like a baby I need to protect because he is able to protect himself.

You need to let the 12yo navigate that relationship. I hand over the phone whenever ex calls (I avoid interacting with ex as much as possible and I avoid questioning the boys about their interactions with him)


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

EVG39 said:


> Your lawyer is giving you excellent advice and you have an excellent case. The only way you blow it is to walk into a parental alienation claim. Listen to her not us.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep, claims of parental alienation are what to watch out for. It is often used by MRA activists to allow abusive fathers to get custody and avoid child support, according to what I have read on that Safe Kids site.

But it sounds like your husband may not even want visitation. Then you can just focus on whatever you and your son decide is best for him.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

I just saw about the alcohol and drugs. Sounds like my ex. 

Your son should have his own cell phone with lessons NOT to get in the car and to call the police if his dad is imbibing.

Even more weight on the side of this "dad" is not going to be part of this boy's life anymore. With an addict, their addictions take over and he's not going to bother with the kid who is 200 miles away

I actually LOVE that I am 500miles away from ex. Such a nice peaceful and drama free life. :grin2:

I recommend Al-Anon for you. It's a great support system; those people understand.


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