# Texting impacting marriage



## helpplease

I have noticed that my wife has been texting all the time. It has steadily increased over the past few months that it is affecting my well being.
She will text before work, during work, and after work until bedtime. We have been married for 15 years and have 2 children.
She is texting friends only, no men, but I can't help but start to develop a jealousy that I am getting cheated out of time with my wife as well as my children with her friends as well as the technology itself.
These texts are with her friends who are obviously in different stages of their life where it does not have an impact on there relationships. One is married and one is not.
She becomes distant and does not respond in the loving way in which I married her. 
I feel alone, sad, hurt and am getting tired of the fight.
She wants to make fun or make light of the issue when I say "it is time to stop texting don't you think"
I have given my life to develop a loving relationship, a deep love that I never want to give up.

How does one counter her playing off that texting is no big deal and it is my problem?
She wants me to be who has the problem.

background information: 
wife is 38, i am 40
i give back rubs 3 times a week
we eat out
normal intimacy
i complement her
i clean house
take kids playing 
generally make her life stress free as possible
on surface all seems fine

Any help is appreciated!

lost, hurt, sad, feeling empty and unloved


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## lovelieswithin

Aw I am sorry to hear that! Well to be honest I text most when I am bored. Hows the excitement levels in your marriage? are you outgoing? do you make romantic date plans etc? if youve ruled out this possibility then she could simply be getting carried away into techland. Sometimes I really get into facebook and have to set a kitchen timer so I dont end up neglecting my husband all night long. Perhaps suggest a fair limit to time u guys set aside for cyberland? she doesnt believe u r serious so sit and tell her shes hurting your feelings. She may not even realize how much she does it!!! Try having an official date night every week where both leave phones at home. Also suggest a phone free family game night! that way hopefully she will c what she is missing and try to scale back. Hope this gives u some stuff to ponder and hope it helps! 
shes lucky u care most men wish their wives would go do their thing more...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## helpplease

She has stated that she is worried about getting old. 
Statements of being married "forever" is scary. 
Are we going to be doing the same things for the next 20 years?

These are some statements she has made.

I know we have a routine, wakeup, get kids ready for school, work, come home, take kids to events, chill, and go to bed.
Next day is a rewind and play again.

We do go out and eat as a family, but not very often as a couple.


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## 2Daughters

Technology and boredom are real marriage killers...take it from people who know that have wives in the age group of (32-40)..are you positive she is not texting a male 'friend' under a different name?


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## helpplease

I am near 100% sure that no guy is being texted. It is just so hard when many people turn to technology and internet and compare their life with other peoples. On Facebook everyone seems to have the best life, not reality but online it sure makes people question what they have.



2Daughters said:


> Technology and boredom are real marriage killers...take it from people who know that have wives in the age group of (32-40)..are you positive she is not texting a male 'friend' under a different name?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Twistedheart

It has killed my marriage of 13 years. Her lover's name was listed as a female. Youre going to need to dig and analyze those numbers. Do not wait.

Well that didn't kill it alone. It just made it easier and most convenient to have an affair.


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## nice777guy

What kind of phone does she have? Keep in mind that on a lot of new phones you can be logged into Yahoo Messenger or chatting on Facebook - all that typing doesn't have to be texting.

I've had a lot of problems with this over the last year too. My experience has been that most of my wife's female friends have better things to do than text all day - they have jobs, families, kids, etc.

But if she's texting a man, they are much more likely to respond quickly and repeatedly.


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## WantsHappiness

Both my H and I text a lot and on my end, it’s almost always to female friends. I rarely talk on the phone anymore. Think about how much women (in general, I know there are exceptions) talk though. Then think about condensing that to text. It’s going to turn into whole a lot of text messages  For me, on rare occasions it will be male friends of the marriage I’m texting but it’s all on the up and up. Of course this mode of communication has been used to maintain affairs but it’s also totally possible that these are indeed just female friends. Listen to your gut on this. 

It does sound like your wife is a little bored which is why she’s turned to communicating with friends. And obviously this is a problem because it’s taking time away from your marriage and your family. I agree that you need to put it to her in those terms, she might not realize that is what she is doing or how much time it actually eats up. Set some limits that you can both agree on and start spicing things up a bit.


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## 2Daughters

My wifes male 'friend' was Amy on her phone.


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## helpplease

Well all indications from her bf is that the issue is with her feeling that she thinks that she settled for me. Would have been nice to know years ago. What can a guy do. You give your life to make someone happy and now this is what you get. I still am sure all texting is with friends only. I clearly have a bigger problem to workout.


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## WantsHappiness

That has to have been a painful discussion. It’s good though, now you know what the problem is you can start addressing it. Have you discussed it with your wife? While I’m sure the friend is being honest with you, you and your wife should really talk about this because as you pointed out you have a bigger problem to deal with. 

What do you do to perpetuate her idea that she settled for you? Do you agree? Do you act like she is better than you?


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## helpplease

I don't feel like there was anything. I definitely don't feel she settled. I love her with all my heart. I don't feel like I act like she is better than me at all. The only thing was that I treat her like gold. Her friends tell her she is the luckiest wife out there and only wish that their husbands treated them like I do my wife.
Some days I feel like it is that I have not aged as well because of some balding. Seems superficial I know but that is how I feel. The rest of me is in great shape, no belly gut, fit and trim. I take care of what I can do something about.

We go out and do things together, with kids and without.
I complement her
I give her back rubs all the time (3 to 4 times a week)
I am not an A$$ to her

All in all she says that when we broke 20 years ago (we were apart for 7 months) that she pursued me so hard that she felt she should have been looking for someone else. Now she regrets being "weak" but now she is much "stronger" and would never let that happen again. 
On the outside every person who knows us would and does say we are like the golden couple that marriages should be based on. Clearly not now since my heart is now destroyed!
We make good money have no money stresses, except that I cannot give her more of what she wants. Like a huge home on a beach.
I am so lost I don't know what to do. How does one go about mending the problem?
She says that she will still be here in 6 months and not to worry, that I am making this a way bigger deal than it is. It seems pretty much a big deal to me.
The most difficult time of my life, when the one you love and want to spend the rest of your life with has now got different feelings.


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## WantsHappiness

If she’s not bringing up your physical appearance I wouldn’t worry about it. It doesn’t sound like you’ve let yourself go at all, balding is not something you can control!

As far as her saying this isn’t a problem. Well, it is very much a problem for you for the reasons you have stated. If she doesn’t think it’s an issue that she feels she settled then that’s fine. She would be the one to take issue with that particular problem itself. The issue is what she’s doing as a result. Her reactions to this feeling are a detriment to your marriage. She is engaging in activity that takes away from your marriage and family life. That is very much a problem for you and it should be dealt with whether she thinks it has merit or not. If it has merit for you then it’s important. And it’s especially important because you feel she’s neglecting you. 

At the same time if she “regrets” ever getting together in the first place that is a very big problem whether she wants to recognize it or not. Of course she will have friends and a social life, the important thing is balance. How often does she go out with these friends? Or is it mainly texting and phone conversations? 

It does sound like you put her on a pedestal a little bit. That’s fine, every woman would love that. For a few years. After awhile it can get, well, boring. Does she do these things for you as well? Give you back rubs and complement you? Is there an even share of household chores between you? Has she vocalized to you that these actions are important to her? 

From the sounds of it you are so busy making everything perfect for her, catering to her, that you are not getting your own needs met (spending time together without the phone). It needs to be a two-way street with both of you giving to the marriage so that you are both meeting each other’s needs and getting your needs met by _each other_.


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## lisakifttherapy

I'm seeing more and more relationship disruption in my therapy practice - and in life lately. As helpful as it can be to have so much ability to "communicate," it becomes a problem when it gets in the way of relationships - where one feels like they're not being prioritized. Try telling her how it makes you feel when she's not focused on you during times that are supposed to be for the two of you. It's not that you don't want her to text her friends - but you don't feel cared for when she's preoccupied by it in your presence.


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## helpplease

I don't really think I put her on a pedestal but I do treat her very well. I at times do not feel that things are reciprocated as much but I really have noticed that after all of the issues started to rise to the surface.
From a physical/intimate point of view that has always been very gratifying and that I guess would be her way of reciprocating.

I guess it leaves me with such a huge question for women then. If we treat you great and meet your needs, how does that get boring? I am very confused about the statement. I do not walk around asking what can I do for you to make you happier? I do things on my own out of love, because I knew that it made her happy.

As per the texting, I explained how myself and the kids felt when she was on her phone all the time. It really did not sink in for her. She thinks that I am trying to be a controller of things she like to do, "keeping her in a box" was the term. She gets to go where and when without any problems. Going out with friends, girls night out or whatever.

Today the last thing I finally got out of her (she is reluctant to open up) was that she wished that we would have dated longer after we got back together. We were together for 2 years, broke up for 9 months, and got back together and got married in 1 year 3 months. I stated that if we dated long we would have still got married. We got/get along great up until now. She also states that it scares her to think that we have been together longer than when she lived at home with her parents.

I am just confused and she will not give any information about why she feels this way other than what is stated above. Then wants to walk away and say that she doesn't want to talk anymore. I stated that I really don't know what she is going through but that if there is anything she needs I am here for her.

Still so confused about all of this and still have no idea what to do.


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## WantsHappiness

Is it possible that she could be going through a midlife crisis? All of these regrets/fears sound like they could be a symptom of that. How old is she? Has she been through any major life changes recently or around the time this new behavior started? 

I asked whether your wife has told you that the little things you do are appreciated because we each communicate our love in different ways. If your love language is acts of service and hers is physical touch/affection then you can do every household chore all day every day but it’s not going to hit home with her. If her love language is physical touch it’s the physical/intimate actions that do speak to her and make her feel loved. Check out information on The Five Love Languages which is a book heavily recommended around this forum for these reasons.

There’s a difference between treating her well and acting, well, the doormat for lack of a better term. Yes, everyone wants to be treated well, your intentions here are very good. The problem is that she’s stopped reciprocating and you’re wondering why. This is merely one possibility and only you will be able to determine if you’re going overboard in this area. Every woman would love being treated like a queen for a little while but sometimes we want to be treated like a regular human being with faults. We want to earn our respect and deserve it, not have it handed to us regardless of our behavior. We want you to have expectations that your needs will be met in addition to you meeting ours. I’d think that is something everyone wants. 

What you told her didn’t sink in because she’s thinking about herself and how what you’re saying affects _her_. She’s not getting the message that this hurts you. That could be because of the way you’re communicating or because she’s being selfish. Has she always been reluctant to open up to you? Do you feel her accusation that you’re being controlling is justified? Do you have any history with control or jealousy issues? Honestly, this type of reaction is a red flag. 

Have you considered counseling to try and get to the root of the problem?

ETA: I just went back to check and see that she’s 38. It could be a midlife thing. How old are the kids?


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## 2Daughters

WantsHappiness...that's a scary subject MLC..that book sounds like a good one to get..on the age thing what is considered a red flag age?


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## WantsHappiness

2Daughters said:


> WantsHappiness...that's a scary subject MLC..that book sounds like a good one to get..on the age thing what is considered a red flag age?


At what age can a midlife crisis come into play? In the most broad definition, anywhere from 30-60 but most commonly mid-40s. They can last for years and usually last longer for men. It’s still not an excuse to withdraw from the marriage though. Here is an article at Webmd which has more info. Midlife Crisis: Depression or Normal Transition?


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## helpplease

WantsHappiness said:


> Is it possible that she could be going through a midlife crisis? All of these regrets/fears sound like they could be a symptom of that. How old is she? Has she been through any major life changes recently or around the time this new behavior started?
> 
> It is quite possible it is a MLC. She has great issues about growing/getting old. She wants to maintain the way she looks and does NOT want to get old. There are many factors that can be involved here. Adoption is a major problem for her to let go. She is always wondering if her birth mother is thinking about her. The Death of her father a number of years ago, car wreck with facial lacerations. She looks great but this does bother her.
> 
> I asked whether your wife has told you that the little things you do are appreciated because we each communicate our love in different ways. If your love language is acts of service and hers is physical touch/affection then you can do every household chore all day every day but it’s not going to hit home with her.
> 
> I by all means do not go around doing all the chores, our house is not even close to being tidy. I help in all areas the same that she does. But I think that what you have said could make some sense. That my doing things although appreciated might not be the thing she wants. Maybe it is more hand holding, hugs, kisses etc.
> 
> If her love language is physical touch it’s the physical/intimate actions that do speak to her and make her feel loved. Check out information on The Five Love Languages which is a book heavily recommended around this forum for these reasons.
> 
> I will check out this book for sure. I am a little lost with this topic, as well as many guys I am sure.
> 
> There’s a difference between treating her well and acting, well, the doormat for lack of a better term. Yes, everyone wants to be treated well, your intentions here are very good.
> 
> The only thing that she could take for granted is back rubs. I do this because she absolutely loves these and tells me how good they make her feel.
> 
> The problem is that she’s stopped reciprocating and you’re wondering why. This is merely one possibility and only you will be able to determine if you’re going overboard in this area.
> 
> Clearly at this point after looking at other threads I must do everything I can to be as sane as possible during this time and continue to treat her as if nothing is wrong and try to figure out what is going on. I have stated that I am here for her and will do what every I can to help her work out whatever she is going through.
> 
> Every woman would love being treated like a queen for a little while but sometimes we want to be treated like a regular human being with faults. We want to earn our respect and deserve it, not have it handed to us regardless of our behavior. We want you to have expectations that your needs will be met in addition to you meeting ours. I’d think that is something everyone wants.
> 
> Point taken, thanks for this one!
> 
> Have you considered counseling to try and get to the root of the problem?
> I have suggested counseling but she says it is not necessary. She will work through this problem. When I asked again about it she says I am making things worse than they really are.


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## MEM2020

For the moment lets ignore sex - I know its tough - hey I am a guy also. But just for now lets do a quick exercise. Outside the bedroom who is more loving? For instance, in an average week:

Which of you:
- Says "I love you" more
- Says "I love you" first
- Compliments the other person more (you look beautiful today, wow that was a great dinner you just cooked)
- Approaches the other for a hug / a friendly kiss/peck more?
- Does acts of service for the other (cooking/cleaning/etc)
- Gifts the other person more (flowers, cards, chocolates, etc)
- Asks the other to spend time together hanging out/going out to a movie/playing a sport?
- Approaches the other person to say hello and discuss your day when you first get home from work/school? 

When you have a disagreement which of you typically approaches the other person first to "break the ice"? 

Does the person who approaches just act nice and ignore the prior argument, or do they apologize? 

When your wife does something unfair/wrong to you, does she usually apologize, or usually refuse to apologize/refuse to admit she did anything wrong?

When you do something unfair/wrong to her, does you usually apologize, or usually refuse to apologize/refuse to admit you did anything wrong?

Lets say your wife does something that is very clearly unfair/wrong to you. How do you act towards her until it is resolved? 

How long are you comfortable letting a fight go on simply by not speaking to her - other than about necessary things like scheduling/division of household labor? 

Would you say you have a healthy fear of your wife? Meaning, if you have made a mistake (normal stuff - not crazy things like cheating) lets say you were supposed to be home by 6 because she is cooking a really nice dinner for you, but you had to work late and forgot to call. Suddenly you realize you are already late. Do you think - uh oh - I am in serious trouble and I am fearful/concerned that she is going to be really mad at me? 

Would you say she has a healthy fear of you? 

- How often do you behave in a controlling manner? For instance trying to get her to cut back on texting so she will spend more time with you - could be construed as controlling behavior?
- Asking her when she is coming how from work/from a social event is typically also perceived as controlling/clingy
- How often does she?

This question is first for you to her, and then her to you:
How often, when you/she are in the wrong, and the other person brings it up, do you apologize and admit your error. How often do you calmly just state they are wrong, (even when you both know they aren't) and how often do you get angry at them for challenging you and attack them. 

Have you stayed in shape? How do you look compared to when she first met you? 

IME I am available to spend as much time with my wife as she wants. However I never pressure her to spend more time with me. I have always found that when she spends less time with me - taking a step back and giving her even more space than she wants tends to cause her to come back to me. 

Smothering someone with time/emotional/other demands tends to make them pull back/step away from you. 

On a 1-10 scale how "clingy/needy" would she say you are? 
And 1-10 how would you rate her? 

By the way, most guys who are a "little" clingy/needy normally, become MUCH MORE SO when there wives withdraw. Is it possible that has happened to you? 

This typically becomes a vicious cycle very quickly.


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## helpplease

I caught her forever lying b***ch.
more later i am fumed!!! CHEATER!!!!


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## helpplease

Here is the rundown now that I am calmed down.
We have a 3 month online affair. No physical relationship.

-I love you signs that she drew and took pictures of and sent to the bas***d
-nude pictures sent to him
-pictures of sex toys she wanted him to see

She met him 15 years ago in our marriage while she was finishing college and commuting to school. He finds her because she has become a little successful and her name is the first one when googled with her accomplishments.

What the hell now? I am distraught to no end.

Forgive or not?

She was instant messaging with blackberry so I would never be able to see any usage patterns. 
I am sick!!!!


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## WantsHappiness

Hp, I’m so very sorry to hear this. How are you feeling today?

Take some time to sort through this. How did you find out?


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## cb45

take it from me,
if u keep trying to figure out what a confused woman is really
thinking, u'll become more confused than her. no joke.

as we get older, we all look back and contemplate the 
"coulda-woulda-shoulda's" of life. not all of us can (dare?)
verbalize it to our mates, as rel'shp may not b that open
or mature enough to handle it. it takes a strong man/woman
to sit there, and take all this nonsense, cuz thats basically
what it all is, NONSENSE. POPPY****. Much ado about
nothing.

u did or u didnt, much like "do or do not"(master Yoda....lol).
"it tis what it tis"(unknown bro @large)

in this case she did what she did. the rest is good as gone.
dont tolerate this/these conversation(s) w/ yer W as i did
twice i think w/in last 4yrs, as u r not contributing yer own
regrets it seems(as did i, oops, guilty, stupid of me,waste)

u tell her she has an investment here, same as u. stop 
focusing on what got away, and how can the two of u 
make the WE golden once more. don't beg. don't plead.
but do ask her if she can be as considerate of u as any
of her txt friends, or friends she'll meet in future.

all the best.

ray:---------------------------------------------cb45


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## 2Daughters

in a nutshell..*Don't focus on where you fell, but where you fell from.*


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## helpplease

UPDATE:
Went to a counselor today. Very good session. 2 hours of soul searching by both of us. Final establishment was created and now I have to wait. Obviously I cannot change anyone's mind, it is all up to her.
I feel that I can forgive with the guidelines set forth by counselor.

Who knows where all this is going. So much has come out. I am glad to have went and talked with someone who can help. If we stay together, there will have to be much repair to be done. I guess the main saving grace here is that this was a none physical affair (still an affair though). This person has been in my house only in her mind, tough pill to swallow.

Thanks for all your input everyone, so very helpful.


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## helpplease

WantsHappiness said:


> Hp, I’m so very sorry to hear this. How are you feeling today?
> 
> Today has been full of ups and downs. I am not feeling great. Just glad I know the truth.
> 
> Take some time to sort through this. How did you find out?
> I was able to see some behavior that did not match up with what she was saying. She finally told me the truth, thank goodness.
> 
> This site was a big help because this was not taking place with texting but IM'ing. That cannot be tracked easily.


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## cb45

still waiting.


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## cb45

still waiting. :sleeping:


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## helpplease

I do like your statement CB. Focus on the future of rebuilding but not what brought us down. I can only hope we get there. I have one chance to give and that is it. Any violation of my trust again is it, that's the way it has to be, a harsh reality for me.
I hope we get golden again 

Thanks


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## helpplease

My head is going crazy right now. I have one week that will be the absolute worst. Waiting now after Wife made contact to talk to the other guy about his feelings and the future of them and our kids. He is supposed to call back after a week and tell her his feelings about the whole situation. Then we go see the marriage counselor again to discuss what all has happened and presumably what she is going to do.
I am supposed to maintain sanity during that time. I now have a phone number of this "guy" if you can call him that but no contact can happen if I follow all rules of the marriage counselor.

I am freaking out!!!!


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## WantsHappiness

I’m so glad to hear that you two went straight to a counselor’s office! It sounds like a very productive first appointment. It’s important that you are both on board with the next steps and it sounds like you are. Not that they’ll be easy. 

The waiting and not knowing has got to be the worst! DO NOT call this guy. Not now. It will be very hard but refrain from making contact if only to stick to your agreement. Try not to get into any heavy discussions with her either. Your thoughts from the other day about taking a step back from pressuring her are on target and still apply. Maintaining your sanity is another story entirely  Try to keep busy, check out the other sections of this forum, they can be unbelievably helpful. 

Sorry to hear you’re not feeling so hot but please know that it's totally normal considering what you're going through. It will probably be up and down for awhile. Remember, it’s going to get much worse before it gets better. It always does with counseling and especially when you’re dealing with an EA and this big decision. Just hang in there and focus on one day at a time, one hour at a time if you have to. Post as often as you need to, vent vent vent!


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## helpplease

I can see right now that there has been so much more going on. we both have individual appointments with the counselor also.
I look back at my posts and there is a lot of pain that she has caused. but I also must reflect that I to have done things that would hurt her if she knew. 
I can only hope that this gets resolved and we can move forward with our lives together. I truly feel that this has been an eye opener for "us". I pray that what we learn we can better our relationship together, instead of using it on the next relationship down the road.
Communication is by far the most important factor to build a strong relationship, this we both could have done a better job. 
I know I have pain, but she to is experiencing it as well. There are now so many more factors that come into play than just the event that started all this.

We lay in bed this afternoon and held each other and talked about things other than the EA, it was nice and gratifying. Both tears and smiles with lots of soul searching.

Thanks everyone for your encouragement and advice. it has helped keep me from going to crazy.

I will conclude that I love my wife more than words can say. I feel that we have a unique bond that makes us, us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## helpplease

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020

Are you going to allow your wife a week to decide if she and the OM want to be together and she will be leaving you? 

Why would you agree to that? 

I sent you a list of questions - it sure seems like you are "over loving" your wife which sends her a very dangerous message which is that you don't think you are worthy of being her mate.

Best way to make a woman unhappy is for her partner to convince her that she could do better than him..... 




helpplease said:


> I can see right now that there has been so much more going on. we both have individual appointments with the counselor also.
> I look back at my posts and there is a lot of pain that she has caused. but I also must reflect that I to have done things that would hurt her if she knew.
> I can only hope that this gets resolved and we can move forward with our lives together. I truly feel that this has been an eye opener for "us". I pray that what we learn we can better our relationship together, instead of using it on the next relationship down the road.
> Communication is by far the most important factor to build a strong relationship, this we both could have done a better job.
> I know I have pain, but she to is experiencing it as well. There are now so many more factors that come into play than just the event that started all this.
> 
> We lay in bed this afternoon and held each other and talked about things other than the EA, it was nice and gratifying. Both tears and smiles with lots of soul searching.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your encouragement and advice. it has helped keep me from going to crazy.
> 
> I will conclude that I love my wife more than words can say. I feel that we have a unique bond that makes us, us.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## helpplease

MEM11363 said:


> For the moment lets ignore sex - I know its tough - hey I am a guy also. But just for now lets do a quick exercise. Outside the bedroom who is more loving? For instance, in an average week:
> 
> Which of you:
> - Says "I love you" more Me
> - Says "I love you" first Me
> - Compliments the other person more (you look beautiful today, wow that was a great dinner you just cooked) me
> - Approaches the other for a hug / a friendly kiss/peck more? me
> - Does acts of service for the other (cooking/cleaning/etc) equal
> - Gifts the other person more (flowers, cards, chocolates, etc) me
> - Asks the other to spend time together hanging out/going out to a movie/playing a sport? neither
> - Approaches the other person to say hello and discuss your day when you first get home from work/school? neither, we go to work together and discuss on way home
> 
> When you have a disagreement which of you typically approaches the other person first to "break the ice"? equal
> 
> Does the person who approaches just act nice and ignore the prior argument, or do they apologize? no
> 
> When your wife does something unfair/wrong to you, does she usually apologize, or usually refuse to apologize/refuse to admit she did anything wrong? a little of both
> 
> When you do something unfair/wrong to her, does you usually apologize, or usually refuse to apologize/refuse to admit you did anything wrong? a little of both
> 
> Lets say your wife does something that is very clearly unfair/wrong to you. How do you act towards her until it is resolved? Will continue to put home the issue until resolved.
> 
> How long are you comfortable letting a fight go on simply by not speaking to her - other than about necessary things like scheduling/division of household labor? A few hours
> 
> Would you say you have a healthy fear of your wife? Meaning, if you have made a mistake (normal stuff - not crazy things like cheating) lets say you were supposed to be home by 6 because she is cooking a really nice dinner for you, but you had to work late and forgot to call. Suddenly you realize you are already late. Do you think - uh oh - I am in serious trouble and I am fearful/concerned that she is going to be really mad at me? no not at all
> 
> Would you say she has a healthy fear of you? occasionally
> 
> - How often do you behave in a controlling manner? For instance trying to get her to cut back on texting so she will spend more time with you - could be construed as controlling behavior? Not very often at all
> - Asking her when she is coming how from work/from a social event is typically also perceived as controlling/clingy Never until the EA started affecting us, prior to my knowledge
> - How often does she?
> 
> This question is first for you to her, and then her to you:
> How often, when you/she are in the wrong, and the other person brings it up, do you apologize and admit your error. I am improving on this, used to be hardly ever. She will apoligize
> How often do you calmly just state they are wrong, (even when you both know they aren't) Not often and how often do you get angry at them for challenging you and attack them. not often
> 
> Have you stayed in shape? up and down. before EA we both started getting fit. How do you look compared to when she first met you? I am heavier but I have no belly hang, flat tummy more muscle, less hair.
> 
> IME I am available to spend as much time with my wife as she wants. However I never pressure her to spend more time with me. I have always found that when she spends less time with me - taking a step back and giving her even more space than she wants tends to cause her to come back to me.
> 
> Smothering someone with time/emotional/other demands tends to make them pull back/step away from you.
> 
> On a 1-10 scale how "clingy/needy" would she say you are? 5
> And 1-10 how would you rate her? 5
> 
> By the way, most guys who are a "little" clingy/needy normally, become MUCH MORE SO when there wives withdraw. Is it possible that has happened to you? I would say some yes
> 
> This typically becomes a vicious cycle very quickly.


I have only agreed to the week because that is what the counselor said would be fair for her to work out the issue, what am I supposed to do?


----------



## MarkTwain

helpplease said:


> I have only agreed to the week because that is what the counselor said would be fair for her to work out the issue, what am I supposed to do?


If given this space, she concludes that "you are the one" then this week of space will prove to have been the ideal method, becuase there will have been little forcing her hand from you. 

However, there are two other points...

If it goes against you, you will have a longer wait with possibly dissolution at the end of it. Also as *MEM *is saying (I think), it does make you look too nice and soft.

However, it's what I would do and have done. The only problem is that, if you give people space to be themselves - they tend to think "MMMMmmmm space, I can have my cake and eat it". Who wouldn't want that?

OK, I would not want that RIGHT NOW, but there have been times when I did.

This thread has been very helpful to me, thank you


----------



## helpplease

What am I supposed to do then? 
-Act absolutely normal, not give much attention as far as expression of love and go about like nothing is wrong?
-Tell her that it really doesn't matter to me, I'll be fine?
-Do more with my kid's leave her out?
-Hang out with friends all the time?
-Go to a bar have a drink and talk to other people/women?

This has been such an eye opener for me. Much of what MEM makes sense but it seems to go against what I have read in the past about making relationships stronger. I guess if anything I will not make the same mistake again that apparently I have made here over the last few months. "Don't love too much because you will get burned" That seems to be the idea here.
I have been talking with another friend here and he has stated that his friend will not let himself get too far emotionally with women he dates and they (and this sounds bad) want him so bad and he just gives them just enough attention that they want to be with him more.
This sounds crazy and goes against the grain of what I thought what women really wanted.
So confused now but have learned a lot about me. I am starting to realize and I should develop a WTF attitude with this whole thing. My kids are the ones that are now suffering though. They sense it and one of them wakes up in the middle of the night to give me a hug and tell me he loves me. This has never happened. I have already got early homemade father's day gifts from my children as well, they know something is up.

Comments???


----------



## MarkTwain

helpplease said:


> I have been talking with another friend here and he has stated that his friend will not let himself get too far emotionally with women he dates and they (and this sounds bad) want him so bad and he just gives them just enough attention that they want to be with him more.
> This sounds crazy and goes against the grain of what I thought what women really wanted.


This works with some women and also some men. However it's very manipulative if taken to any extreme. Who wants to live like that?

The fact is, your wife wonders if she should have taken a different fork in the road many years ago and gone off with Mr. EA. Never mind giving her time... you need to give yourself time - and lots of it - to see where your life is going. If you can possibly find something to keep you busy, it might take the focus of the MAIN EVENT. Well a little anyway


----------



## MEM2020

I am very kind, easygoing and loving to my wife. I am also just a bit more reserved, a bit less loving than maybe she wants. And THAT causes her to come to me - for hugs - for I love yous - for sex. 

I always reciprocate when she wants love. Always. I just don't overdue it. The more she asks - the more I give. 

With that said I am totally engaged when we spend time together. The idea is to be a delightful - but slightly reserved partner. That way she never feels crowded/etc. 

Before anyone cries manipulation. I do this because it works really well. If asked, W says I treat her like gold. She volunteers that she is in love with me. And I absolutely am in love with her. I would radiate more love, if that would make her happier. It just doesn't. Sometimes when she wants to be alone I want to be with her. I completely conceal that desire though - because - it would create the opposite of the desired effect. 

IMO emotionally crowding a woman is a recipe for disaster.




helpplease said:


> What am I supposed to do then?
> -Act absolutely normal, not give much attention as far as expression of love and go about like nothing is wrong?
> -Tell her that it really doesn't matter to me, I'll be fine?
> -Do more with my kid's leave her out?
> -Hang out with friends all the time?
> -Go to a bar have a drink and talk to other people/women?
> 
> This has been such an eye opener for me. Much of what MEM makes sense but it seems to go against what I have read in the past about making relationships stronger. I guess if anything I will not make the same mistake again that apparently I have made here over the last few months. "Don't love too much because you will get burned" That seems to be the idea here.
> I have been talking with another friend here and he has stated that his friend will not let himself get too far emotionally with women he dates and they (and this sounds bad) want him so bad and he just gives them just enough attention that they want to be with him more.
> This sounds crazy and goes against the grain of what I thought what women really wanted.
> So confused now but have learned a lot about me. I am starting to realize and I should develop a WTF attitude with this whole thing. My kids are the ones that are now suffering though. They sense it and one of them wakes up in the middle of the night to give me a hug and tell me he loves me. This has never happened. I have already got early homemade father's day gifts from my children as well, they know something is up.
> 
> Comments???


----------



## MarkTwain

MEM11363 said:


> Before anyone cries manipulation. I do this because it works really well. If asked, W says I treat her like gold. She volunteers that she is in love with me. And I absolutely am in love with her. I would radiate more love, if that would make her happier. It just doesn't. Sometimes when she wants to be alone I want to be with her. I completely conceal that desire though - because - it would create the opposite of the desired effect.


I can well believe how well this works even though it almost defies logic. But that's the point I suppose... people aren't logical.

Still I would like to believe a relationship could move beyond this stage into one of complete honesty. However, I am not sure if it can be done all that easily. Perhaps a bit of concealment and mystique is always needed with your type of wife.


----------



## MEM2020

MT,
I think this is our stable long term pattern. I do feel I am very honest WRT direct communication. I also agree that I am definitely NOT fully transparent. 

I could offer her more intimacy/emotional transparency at the expense of passion and desire. I am planning on holding off on doing so until I reach an age at which I am suffering from severe, untreatable ED  . I am hoping that won't happen until I have one foot in the grave  





MarkTwain said:


> I can well believe how well this works even though it almost defies logic. But that's the point I suppose... people aren't logical.
> 
> Still I would like to believe a relationship could move beyond this stage into one of complete honesty. However, I am not sure if it can be done all that easily. Perhaps a bit of concealment and mystique is always needed with your type of wife.


----------



## MEM2020

During this week I would be:
- Calm and friendly but not talkative
- I would NOT discuss my relationship with her unless SHE brings it up. Even then I would mainly ask questions, listen and try to understand. 
- I would let her ask to spend time with me, and would not go out of my way to ask her to spend time together
- It is perfectly fine for you to go to a bar - and to talk to women. Just don't get physical with anyone. Give her the week.

Most likely end of week she will play the "cake and eat it game" where she says she isn't sure, is confused etc. 

There are two very different tactics to choose from at that point. Mine would be this: I know I'm not perfect, but you never communicated that my issues were severe enough to jeopardize the marriage. Now you are having an affair of some sort. I am going to make this easy for you. Either commit 100 percent to trying to fix the marriage which means going totally NC with your AP, or I am going to file. 

And that would be that. She can then decide - but it avoids the destruction of your self esteem that will come from being in a marriage with someone who likes the idea of a male harem.

And your affect needs to be calm and your words factual and brief. No doubt the most frightened my wife ever gets is when I go into a "Zen" mode of ok - I respect your right to do what you wish and you must also respect mine. This is what I am doing.



helpplease said:


> What am I supposed to do then?
> -Act absolutely normal, not give much attention as far as expression of love and go about like nothing is wrong?
> -Tell her that it really doesn't matter to me, I'll be fine?
> -Do more with my kid's leave her out?
> -Hang out with friends all the time?
> -Go to a bar have a drink and talk to other people/women?
> 
> This has been such an eye opener for me. Much of what MEM makes sense but it seems to go against what I have read in the past about making relationships stronger. I guess if anything I will not make the same mistake again that apparently I have made here over the last few months. "Don't love too much because you will get burned" That seems to be the idea here.
> I have been talking with another friend here and he has stated that his friend will not let himself get too far emotionally with women he dates and they (and this sounds bad) want him so bad and he just gives them just enough attention that they want to be with him more.
> This sounds crazy and goes against the grain of what I thought what women really wanted.
> So confused now but have learned a lot about me. I am starting to realize and I should develop a WTF attitude with this whole thing. My kids are the ones that are now suffering though. They sense it and one of them wakes up in the middle of the night to give me a hug and tell me he loves me. This has never happened. I have already got early homemade father's day gifts from my children as well, they know something is up.
> 
> Comments???


----------



## helpplease

I am with you 100 percent. I have had enough and will not compromise dignaty. I refuse to be number 2 in this relationship and will file if she cannot make a decision before talking to him. I will not be seconds to anyone. If she has to wait then the decision is that will happen again and I have lost rank in her eyes. Chalk it up to experience but I am about done. I have reflected today long and hard and have decided there are many people out there for me in the future. 
If she wants to wait for this EA to develop it will be without me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WantsHappiness

MEM11363 said:


> During this week I would be:
> - Calm and friendly but not talkative
> - I would NOT discuss my relationship with her unless SHE brings it up. Even then I would mainly ask questions, listen and try to understand.
> - I would let her ask to spend time with me, and would not go out of my way to ask her to spend time together
> - It is perfectly fine for you to go to a bar - and to talk to women. Just don't get physical with anyone. Give her the week.


:iagree: Spend some extra time with your kids, they need you right now. 

I also agree that once this week is up, you need to make sure that there is a clear cut decision one way or the other. I really like the idea of giving her this week to think about it though. It makes her deal with the reality of the situation, take responsibility for her actions and make an evaluated decision. The difference between having her cake and eating it is that in this case she has to have come to a conclusion by the end of the week. It takes away the ability for her to shirk responsibility and let you be the one to leave... or stay and put up with it. She made the decisions to take these actions, to have an EA, and now she should be the one to start the cleanup process whichever direction it heads in. 



MEM11363 said:


> MT,
> I think this is our stable long term pattern. I do feel I am very honest WRT direct communication. I also agree that I am definitely NOT fully transparent.


I've read a lot of your posts, MEM, and I agree with much of your philosophy on this. Would you agree that a little mystery on the wife's part goes a long way also? Not to the point of being dishonest, just holding back a little bit in the same manner.


----------



## helpplease

This has been the best learning experience I have ever had. I hope I stay in my marriage but I still feel the information has been very helpful.
Thanks and I'll keep everyone posted when the end is near.


----------



## cb45

yes......

i agree w/ yer last line WantsH.

its possible/plausible indeed.


----------



## helpplease

Here is the latest update:
Wife has told me that she wants to stay in marriage.
She has been very remorseful.
We have decided for trust building, to have 100% transparency with all electronics.

What led up to the change of heart? I let her know that I would be leaving the marriage if she cannot make up her mind at the end of the week time allotted by counselor. I have stayed away and give her space. I would leave for 2-5 hours a day to allow her to think.
She has made this decision without talking to the other person, which was what I really needed. 
The other person will be contacted Sunday when back from business, and she will be letting him know that the relationship is over and she does not want any contact from him again.

In the meantime I have been giving space and have been reciprocating physical/emotional needs when she has expressed that she needs them. And lately that seems to be a lot. The past 3 days have been full of much emotions from her. She has stated that she wants me here in our house, she misses me, she loves me, needs me, and is sorry about almost giving up the marriage, basically everything on the emotional side of a relationship that has been missing for about 2-3 months.

We are not out of the woods because of the forgiveness and healing and trust that will need to be built back up. This obviously will take some time.
We have reflected back on the causes of the non-physical affair. There have been factors that we allowed to impact our marriage and we really did not see the negativities that could come from those actions. These factors combined with a mild MLC impacted/clouded the marriage.
I have talked to many people on and offline about why they entered into their EA and a big response by them is the spark that was lit by the "other person" and it became addictive like a drug.

Thanks again to all who have posted information. I feel that it has been a big help now and in the future.

Guarded but moving forward.


----------



## WantsHappiness

This is a very positive step forward, good news! Good for you for standing your ground on the one week timeframe and it’s a smart decision to go with full disclosure from here on out. 

She will have a whole new set of emotions coming on after she ends things with the OM. It will be like a break-up for her and she will likely go through a period of mourning this loss. Be prepared and remember that she chose to be with you, the sadness is just part of healing and is needed to truly move forward. 

You both seem to have a good grip on what happened to get you to this point and I hope that you can eventually get back that wonderful marriage you started with. 

Do you plan to continue counseling for a while?


----------



## helpplease

WantsHappiness said:


> Do you plan to continue counseling for a while?


I hope that we can get back to that moment. We are going to go to counseling at least once more and will decide after that what is necessary for us.


----------



## WantsHappiness

Good! It sounds like you have a really good handle on this, well as good as anyone could in this situation, and it’s great to hear. Hang in there!


----------



## helpplease

It is always a nice feeling when the counselor tells your wife that she never should have got married she was not ready for the right reasons. WTF. What kind of help is that?


----------



## MarkTwain

helpplease said:


> It is always a nice feeling when the counselor tells your wife that she never should have got married she was not ready for the right reasons. WTF. What kind of help is that?


Counsellors are not God. Over 10 years ago we had one that started writing my wife poetry! "WTF" would be an understatement. You're better off coming here and letting us solve your problems "by committee" 

Well, you've got to maintain a sense of humour...


----------



## helpplease

MarkTwain said:


> You're better off coming here and letting us solve your problems "by comity"
> 
> Well, you've got to maintain a sense of humour...


Thanks MT, :iagree:


----------



## WantsHappiness

Heh, counselors can be just as screwy as the rest of us. He might have simply been telling her what she wanted to hear though. Do you know if the counselor is pro-marriage? I've heard of some who lean more towards recommending divorce no matter the situation.


----------



## MarkTwain

WantsHappiness said:


> Do you know if the counselor is pro-marriage? I've heard of some who lean more towards recommending divorce no matter the situation.


Geeeeeeez, that's like phoning the Samaritans and getting asked "have you seriously considered the benefits of suicide?".


----------



## WantsHappiness

MarkTwain said:


> Geeeeeeez, that's like phoning the Samaritans and getting asked "have you seriously considered the benefits of suicide?".


Ha, I know but they’re out there, you’d be surprised.


----------



## helpplease

Met with counselor today. Went good. agreed once again on transparency of phone/internet. Wife did not like it. She feels that she is treated like a child. It was said that she should do this for the sake of the marriage, she agreed. 
The whole thing is so difficult for me. I still and will always have anxiety over the phone and what is going on. 
How does one get over this feeling? Anyone have thread ideas for me to read?
Some days good, others not so good. Counselor said it could take up to 2 years for many people to get over this and even then will never gain 100% of trust. 

All I can as is why? Was this outcome really worth it? Everyone should think before putting their spouses and family in this type of turmoil! No one deserves this kind of punishment!!!


----------



## WantsHappiness

Well of course she feels like she’s being treated like a child, because she is. But it’s only as a result of her own actions and that’s a tough pill to swallow. What stands out is that she’s agreeing to be open because she knows it’s an important step in repairing the marriage. That says a lot and if she flat out refused it would have been a red flag that something is still going on. 

I think the feeling that you will always have a kernel of doubt is normal. It’s hard to see past the current situation/feeling to see that there is the possibility of improvement because it looks so bleak in the moment. But it can get better. It will be hard to move past it and it will take a good amount of time, no doubt about it. It won’t be easy and it’s going to require a lot of work but it can improve with time. You initially decided that this was not a marriage-ending issue. Give it 6 months before you make any permanent decisions, you don't want to make a marriage-ending decision when you're still hurting so much.

Check out posts on this forum by Amplexor. His wife had an EA and they have recovered their marriage. From what I remember it did take quite awhile but he now reports a happier marriage. You might also check out posts by AffairCare and TaylornPete. They work with couples who are trying to recover from an affair.


----------



## jeffreygropp

Remorse isn't the foundation of a solid marriage. She was unhappy enough to emotionally cheat on you, and do it right in front of your face. She clearly has no problem hurting you and jabbing you.

I don't know you, or her. But this situation is TEXTBOOK. Your road to recovery is going to be WAY harder than you are expecting. Also because you are the passive type you're going to have a lot of emotional rolling going on. It could be years, perhaps decades... or never, when you can actually trust her again.

Next time she picks up her phone, are you going to be wondering what she is doing? Is that something you want to do the rest of your life? Just something to ponder.

Best to you my friend.


----------



## swedish

jeffreygropp said:


> Remorse isn't the foundation of a solid marriage. She was unhappy enough to emotionally cheat on you, and do it right in front of your face. She clearly has no problem hurting you and jabbing you.
> 
> I don't know you, or her. But this situation is TEXTBOOK. Your road to recovery is going to be WAY harder than you are expecting. Also because you are the passive type you're going to have a lot of emotional rolling going on. It could be years, perhaps decades... or never, when you can actually trust her again.
> 
> Next time she picks up her phone, are you going to be wondering what she is doing? Is that something you want to do the rest of your life? Just something to ponder.
> 
> Best to you my friend.


I am not sure if you are speaking from your own experience, but I wanted to chime in with my own experience because it is different than you describe, so may also prove to be different for helpplease.

Seeing remorse was key for me in the beginning to know that my h realized how hurt I was & also that he really wanted to stay in the marriage.

And yes, in the beginning there were triggers...every phone call, being on the computer would make me wonder...but over time, finding nothing made me less and less concerned. It was probably 2 years before I really stopped thinking/questioning things but declined dramatically as the weeks/months passed.

What was key for us was to have some really honest talks about our marriage, what we needed to change to make it stronger and happier for both of us...we spend more time as a couple (date night once a week and some weekends away) & we have a lot more fun together...beyond the daily grind of work, bills, shuffling the kids around, etc. we also talk about silly stuff in the news and make each other laugh.

If she is at a point where she is questioning 'is this it?' by talking about this together and shaking things up a little, you can make your marriage even stronger than it was before all of this.


----------



## WantsHappiness

And Swedish, read her posts too. I wasn’t familiar with your story, Swedish, sorry. And Go Hawks! 

hp, you might also check out the entire Coping with Infidelity section of this forum.


----------



## MarkTwain

jeffreygropp said:


> I don't know you, or her. But this situation is TEXTBOOK. Your road to recovery is going to be WAY harder than you are expecting. Also because you are the passive type you're going to have a lot of emotional rolling going on. It could be years, perhaps decades... or never, when you can actually trust her again.
> 
> Next time she picks up her phone, are you going to be wondering what she is doing? Is that something you want to do the rest of your life? Just something to ponder.


It's not quite like that in reality...

When you have known someone a long time, you can feel the connection, you can feel when it's broken, and you can feel when it's back on again. You can feel it's pulse so to speak, it's speeding up and it's slowing down. You don't need the other persons cell phone records. Your own heart will tell you everything.


----------



## helpplease

Thanks for the suggested reading I have been going through the links.
I just find it so hard right now. It is as though nothing seems to bother her and I am the only one hurting.
-Yes she said she was sorry and never meant it to happen.
-Yes she said she wants to work on the marriage.
-Yes we have identified issues and are working on them, such as date nights, and random times during the week to have a sitter come watch kids for a couple of hours so we can go walk or what ever.

One issue I seem to have is she seems to not be the same person. She seems to want to be the "socialite" and wants to go out with friends way more than she used to. She even says she wants to celebrate Father's day one day early so she can go on a lake with her friends. Yes all females but really that kind of burns me. 
I see drinking has increased over the last 3 months and continues at least 4 nights a week. Definition of drinking is 4 plus drinks, wine or hard alcohol. This drinking is done at our home. She says she just likes the buzz effect.

She wants me to take an extra job so we can go to the bahamas to rekindle our marriage, I really don't know if I want to do this. It is a short job for 3 months and adds a couple of hours each day after my normal work day. Should I really have to do this to save marriage?

Another note: why has sex increased after all of this comes out? We have been together 1 to 4 times a day (before 2-4 times a week). All wife initiated. I am not complaining but just curious of this anomaly. 

I have always been confident in the marriage but this seems like an insurmountable hill that may not be over come. It seems easier to throw in the towel than to work this out, when I seem to be the only one who is hurting.

Sorry to continue posts but it is the only way to relieve some of the pain. Thanks again for your words and support


----------



## WantsHappiness

All you have right now is her word and unfortunately it’s not trustworthy. That makes her statements that she’s sorry and wants to work on things that much harder to put your faith in. It’s why her actions need to back up her statements, it’s why she needs to be transparent with electronic communication. At this point, her actions don’t match her words. It also sounds to me as if she’s self-medicating with alcohol rather than dealing with the issues at hand. 4+ drinks per night/4+ nights a week is a lot. 

Think about MarkTwain's post just before your recent one, he makes a very good point. Do you feel that she's really remorseful or is it only on the surface?

A weekend in the Bahamas is not going to save a marriage. It might be a good celebratory idea once you guys feel like you are back on track :smthumbup: If she really thinks this will do the trick she’s looking for a quick fix which just doesn’t exist. And what’s with her change of heart on having you around the house more? On the previous page of this thread she said she wants you back in the house but now she wants you to pick up extra hours so you can afford a vacation? 

How would she react if you asked her to put off Mother’s Day for similar reasons? Try to be fair. Personally, I think it’s ridiculous (I should note that I am not a parent). It is one Sunday out of the year and there are plenty of summer days left to spend at the lake. 

All of that considered, I would still tell you to give it time. She has to get to a point where she’s ready to deal with this and it sounds like she may be on the brink but isn’t quite there yet. Of course, you will have to draw the line on how much time is too much. Honestly, it’s possible that you won’t overcome this just as it's possible that you will. But it’s important that you can see clearly when you make the decision as to whether or not you can. 

You are positive that she’s cut off contact with the OM? Did she include you in that process? Check out this article at Marriage Builders on a woman’s sexual desire during and after an affair (fourth paragraph of the reply if you don’t want to wade through it all). The related article, Four Rules for Recovery, might be helpful also.


----------



## helpplease

WantsHappiness said:


> Think about MarkTwain's post just before your recent one, he makes a very good point. Do you feel that she's really remorseful or is it only on the surface?


At times I feel she is giving it a try, I just don't feel the remorse that I would like to, I guess I really don't know what I expect. 



WantsHappiness said:


> You are positive that she’s cut off contact with the OM? Did she include you in that process?


I cannot be totally positive. She said she was, they talked on the cell phone (50 minutes) and said that she told him that she wanted no more contact and that she needs to work on her marriage. She also reiterated that to the counselor. Neither counselor or her felt that I needed to be involved with that conversation. So I cannot be 100%.

She does snuggle beside me in bed at night and when we get to take naps in the afternoon.
She does reach and hold my hand when walking in stores or parks.
When leaving she will give me a kiss goodbye as well as if I am leaving and I forget she will remind me to come over for a kiss.

All of the above seem like a step in the positive direction to me, but the bottom line is it is going to take serious time for this to mend, and may never completely.

I appreciate the links, I read through them and they are helpful.
As MT said earlier there are positive signs when we are together and I feel that we are clicking just like we always have. I don't feel the distance that we had during the 3 months of the EA. Except that my mind wonders and I start to think about the whole situation and it can mess with ones head.

She has also started to say who is texting and what emails are beeping on her phone. 

I just am in such a tail spin with my life and this relationship. I wish I could crawl in her head and know what she is thinking.

I read about 100% transparency, but how does one truly achieve this? I have noticed that she deleted an email from one of her friends and deleted it from trash rather quickly.

Thanks again!!!


----------



## nice777guy

Help - just wondering - I know your wife "agreed" to transparency, but do you have all of her passwords and access to her Blackberry?

Like you, I'm not sure how to make 100% transparency work...


----------



## helpplease

nice777guy said:


> Help - just wondering - I know your wife "agreed" to transparency, but do you have all of her passwords and access to her Blackberry?
> 
> Like you, I'm not sure how to make 100% transparency work...


I have passwords to all known email accounts and FB account. The problem is all of these messages can easily be erased and deleted before my knowledge.
I also have access to BB if I ask for it. We need to make a place where it is located and I just check on my own, it seems better that way. 
I have access to all numbers being texted but this is not how my wife was committing the EA. It was through instant messaging on BB, that is data and it is not trackable without turning logging on or installing a program on BB to track all data traffic.


----------



## turnera

Well, sorry, but you NEED to be using a keylogger at this point, and checking her phone bill. She lost the right to secrecy. Right now, the most important thing is getting YOU to feel better about staying; and that (should) requires checking up on her for the time being. If you are not doing that, for whatever reason, she is not having a true consequence to this, and she will cheat again.


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## MarkTwain

turnera said:


> Well, sorry, but you NEED to be using a keylogger at this point, and checking her phone bill.


Why? Why bother. 

Regaining trust can only be done by giving some trust, and hoping it won't be abused. It's easy to feeeeeel the connection to the other person if we want. 

Even if there is the odd slip-up on her part, as long as the general direction is forwar, what does it matter. People are human.


----------



## turnera

Not when they are affected by the tainted reasoning of an affair. Over and over and over again, I hear people say 'she's not being herself' or 'she would NEVER do this kind of thing' or 'I don't even recognize her any more.'

The addiction of the high that you get from your affair partner can come to trump any and all reasoning. I've seen people abandon their entire families just to get to keep seeing an AP. Their kids. Their jobs. Their life savings. All to keep getting that 'high' they come to crave. It truly can overpower a person and prevent them from doing the right thing, no matter what they WANT to do. How many waywards come on these sites and say 'I really WANT to go NC but I just can't'? A LOT.

That's why monitoring - at first, until the fog clears or the WS goes through withdrawal and no longer thinks of the AP every waking second - can be an essential tool in fighting the affair.


----------



## MarkTwain

helpplease said:


> I see drinking has increased over the last 3 months and continues at least 4 nights a week. Definition of drinking is 4 plus drinks, wine or hard alcohol. This drinking is done at our home. She says she just likes the buzz effect.
> .
> .
> Another note: why has sex increased after all of this comes out? We have been together 1 to 4 times a day (before 2-4 times a week). All wife initiated. I am not complaining but just curious of this anomaly.


She both wants to feel more and feel less. She wants to feel more excitement, but she also wants to blot out certain feelings. Pay attention to her, and try to read between the lines. If you are having that much sex, you may want to try semen retention and cuming only once per week for a while - this will boost your drive, so you can keep up with her. It also has other effects that can help with understanding women, but no-one believes me so I won't bang on about it here 

You might enjoy my thread on the subject: 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/4579-semen-retention-101-a.html

If you want to try it, once per week is the ideal for this situation in my opinion.


----------



## nice777guy

MarkTwain said:


> When you have known someone a long time, you can feel the connection, you can feel when it's broken, and you can feel when it's back on again. You can feel it's pulse so to speak, it's speeding up and it's slowing down. You don't need the other persons cell phone records. Your own heart will tell you everything.


:iagree:


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## helpplease

MarkTwain said:


> You might enjoy my thread on the subject:
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/4579-semen-retention-101-a.html
> 
> If you want to try it, once per week is the ideal for this situation in my opinion.


Truly interesting. I never thought about that. Good points in the article. This may be fun to try 

Thanks for helping me through this tough time MT, i truly appreciate it!


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## helpplease

Thanks T. It seems like that should be done so I don't go crazy. At least for a while until I get the trust back. Down side is that EA was done on a BB and that makes keylogging more difficult. I'll do some research though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## helpplease

swedish said:


> What was key for us was to have some really honest talks about our marriage, what we needed to change to make it stronger and happier for both of us...we spend more time as a couple (date night once a week and some weekends away) & we have a lot more fun together...beyond the daily grind of work, bills, shuffling the kids around, etc. we also talk about silly stuff in the news and make each other laugh.


Swedish,
that is where we are right now. trying to reestablish that fun part of the relationship and get out of the rut of life. Thanks for the encouragement, I hope that it will all fade away and normalcy will return.


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## louie_a_lopez

Listen i feel sometimes the same way. I get paranoid thinking that she is texting another guy, i have lost with the temptation on checking her phone in the middle of the night. to be honest seeing now it would be easier to just ask... not saying it as an accusation but more like," hey babe who are you texting?" i was scared to ask thinking that she was going to think that i didn't trust her... instead i broke her trust by checking her phone... i will agree looking back now, technology and facebook are relationship killers.. i messed up big time on multiple occassions on facebook... listen if i can do it all over again i would trust her more and would of been more confident in our relationship and just ask... and then instead of being glued to the computers, i would of put them away, got close and share a moment with her... hope all goes well


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## helpplease

okay, here is a huge update. She never ended EA, I am resigning to the fact that my marriage is over. She has continued to lie to me about the relationship with him, she has lied to the counselor.
She has done a good job trying to make me feel like she is wanting to be with me but clearly she wants her cake and wants to eat it too.
Oh well, as much as it hurts it is going to have to be over. There is no way I can ever trust her again, not at all.
She has a friend covering for her and is letting the OM call on her phone so it will not show up on wife's.

I guess I will start moving my location to coping after divorce, that is all I can do.
Thanks everyone, Tunera you were right about the question you had, she never ended the relationship, but I took your advice and now I know.


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## InAPickle

helpplease said:


> Thanks for the suggested reading I have been going through the links.
> I just find it so hard right now. It is as though nothing seems to bother her and I am the only one hurting.
> -Yes she said she was sorry and never meant it to happen.
> -Yes she said she wants to work on the marriage.
> -Yes we have identified issues and are working on them, such as date nights, and random times during the week to have a sitter come watch kids for a couple of hours so we can go walk or what ever.
> 
> One issue I seem to have is she seems to not be the same person. She seems to want to be the "socialite" and wants to go out with friends way more than she used to. She even says she wants to celebrate Father's day one day early so she can go on a lake with her friends. Yes all females but really that kind of burns me.
> I see drinking has increased over the last 3 months and continues at least 4 nights a week. Definition of drinking is 4 plus drinks, wine or hard alcohol. This drinking is done at our home. She says she just likes the buzz effect.
> 
> She wants me to take an extra job so we can go to the bahamas to rekindle our marriage, I really don't know if I want to do this. It is a short job for 3 months and adds a couple of hours each day after my normal work day. Should I really have to do this to save marriage?
> 
> Another note: why has sex increased after all of this comes out? We have been together 1 to 4 times a day (before 2-4 times a week). All wife initiated. I am not complaining but just curious of this anomaly.
> 
> I have always been confident in the marriage but this seems like an insurmountable hill that may not be over come. It seems easier to throw in the towel than to work this out, when I seem to be the only one who is hurting.
> 
> Sorry to continue posts but it is the only way to relieve some of the pain. Thanks again for your words and support


HP, I am really sorry for all that you are going through and I'm happy to know that you are working on things. I admire your commitment to your marriage. 

That said, when I read this post from you the other day, red flags popped up in my head. My concern is that much of what you mentioned about her behavior may be just as problematic as the trust issue now. The drinking (even if at home) and going out more without you can be very destructive. Time with her friends is great, but there needs to be a healthy balance and a commitment to taking care of things that need to be dealt with at home. At a time when you are trying to rebuild, the negatives these issues can bring can really hinder any progress you may make. Have the two of you discussed these things?

Please don't think I'm being a Debbie Downer or that I enjoy raining on peoples' parades - that couldn't be further from the truth. I just wanted to give you some honest feedback (as I'm pretty sure that's what you're looking for) and a little food for thought.

I truly hope your marriage makes it - your commitment to it definitely makes the chances of that much more likely. I think the two of you have a good shot at it if both want it.

Good luck to you. You and your family will be in my prayers!


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## InAPickle

helpplease said:


> okay, here is a huge update. She never ended EA, I am resigning to the fact that my marriage is over. She has continued to lie to me about the relationship with him, she has lied to the counselor.
> She has done a good job trying to make me feel like she is wanting to be with me but clearly she wants her cake and wants to eat it too.
> Oh well, as much as it hurts it is going to have to be over. There is no way I can ever trust her again, not at all.
> She has a friend covering for her and is letting the OM call on her phone so it will not show up on wife's.
> 
> I guess I will start moving my location to coping after divorce, that is all I can do.
> Thanks everyone, Tunera you were right about the question you had, she never ended the relationship, but I took your advice and now I know.


I was typing up a post and didn't get a chance to read this before posting it - I am so sorry, HP. Keep in mind that this affair is not about YOU, but is about HER.

Please stick around as there is so much help here. I've found it to be a gold mine of info and advice. You're not alone - so many people are going through similar situations. 

Take good care and consider heading to a bookstore sometime soon - there are so many great books that can prepare you for and get through the bumpy ride that may lie ahead.

Hugs to you.


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## helpplease

Thanks Pickle  It is the support here and a couple of friends that I can confide that has helped greatly. I just want to keep saying one more chance but she is just messed up.
I am very sad at this point. Sad for my kids, and the life I thought I was going to have.
I know that there will be a bright side after all the gloom but I am just still so shattered.


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## turnera

I'm sorry to hear it. fwiw, I think that if you do separate, keep working on yourself, and keep an open mind, it's always possible she may hit her rock bottom and realize what she threw away and LEARN from it. If so, you could set really HIGH hoops for her to jump through if you ever wanted to give her another chance. Like a prenup before you got married again or a polygraph.


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## helpplease

What is this Plan A? I went to marriagebuilders.com but it was very vague. Anyone have any other information that may help find out?


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## turnera

In the MB program, Plan A is what you do when your spouse is cheating. Two parts: stop the affair, and fix yourself, so that you are what the WS wanted all along. Stop all Love Busters and meet all top 5 Emotional Needs of your WS (questionnaires are on the MB site); make yourself as appealing as possible - wear the cologne she likes, the clothes she likes, cook the food she likes...remind her why she married you in the first place.

Go to the bookstore and get the book His Needs Her Needs; it will explain most things. Also, Surviving an Affair.


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## helpplease

Why do I want to keep salvaging my marriage? It is driving me crazy, why?
Should I let the whole affair thing out to her family? My family knows. She is keeping it a secret from all of her family?
Any thoughts?


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## turnera

Hell, yes, tell her family, if she refuses to stop.


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## helpplease

Thanks T for the kick in the A$$ I needed. I appreciate your straight forward advice here, thanks.


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## InAPickle

I agree with Turnera. Both of those books are great. Also, head over to MarriageBuilders.com and start reading. You'll be amazed and encouraged by what some of the couples have been through and have been able to put back together. Much of what I've read has really opened my eyes.


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## spartan

wow helpplease- I am sorry to hear what you are going through. I am going through a similar situation as we speak. 

I found out about an EA that my wife was having a few months back and I did the detective work to find the outline of the affair yet did not want to know the complete details (as I thought I would never recover if I found out the complete truth)

I did what everyone said NOT to do and that was confront the OM. I was very calm and requested that it ends TODAY. I confronted my wife and told her the same- it ends TODAY and if not she can choose her own divorce attorney. 

With technology being able to bring everyone so close now it is by no accident that "old flames" or "new flames" are so easily accessible. Technology can take what was once a small crack in a relationship and turn it into a HUGE CANYON. 

We as men have become emasculated. We have been told over and over again by the media, Oprah and whatever else is out there to change us from what we primarily were as Alpha Male hunters to Beta Male farmers. We have been brought up to think that we should put our wives on pedestals and dote on them 1000%. We are supposed to make their lives easier by helping with chores, take care of the kids, give them "space", yada yada yada.

What do women really want? What do women really want that will keep them from straying? - 

I can safely say it is NOT the 100% Beta Farmer. That man is boring and quite honestly a chump. They want a mix of 50-50 Alpha and Beta. They want the comfort of a Beta with the excitement of an Alpha.

I have gotten to a point in my my life where I can safely tell myself and my wife and truly BELIEVE it when I say "Do not EVER take my kindness as a source of weakness". "I DO NOT need you in my life to survive, yet I WANT you in my life to make it better"

When you can truly say these things and mean it, the rest of your actions will fall into place. Helpplease, she does not want to destroy her marriage or her family especially when there are kids involved. She needs to see the "dark" side of you. She needs to see the Alpha in you rise up. If you think this relationship is valuable to you then FIGHT FOR IT! Be an Alpha male caveman and pick a course of action and stay the course. Do not become charlie brown at this point and say one thing and do another. You want this to work out, then quit the counseling (beta thing to do IN MY OPINION), contact the OM with her in front of you (dont tell her you are going to do it, just do it while she is in front of you), be calm (no need for death threats or anything stupid), and tell her straight out- This ends TODAY in one way or another. You drop him or I drop you. You dont need to check phone records or spyware as you have been married long enough to know about the changes in your wife's behavior. 

Don't let her cuddle on you now or allow her to "make love to you". That is an insult and complete disrespect to you as a GOOD MAN father/husband. She wants to be remorseful then she can sit on the couch as you play with your kids and wish she was involved. She needs to feel the pain you felt. Only then will she truly realize how much she hurt you and your family. 

Be a D*CK as it is your right and allow her back into your life slowly if you do so choose. Either way, you win in this terrible situation.


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## WantsHappiness

helpplease said:


> Why do I want to keep salvaging my marriage? It is driving me crazy, why?
> Should I let the whole affair thing out to her family? My family knows. She is keeping it a secret from all of her family?
> Any thoughts?


I’m very sorry to read your update, hp. 

As you’ve seen from the other posts, the marriage isn’t necessarily over. Make sure you want to save it for the right reasons though. Work on yourself most importantly because that’s who is going to be with you in the long run. Best of luck to you!


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## kenmoore14217

Spartan ...................... You are my new hero !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## MarkTwain

Spartan-

I liked a lot of what you said, but not so much the punishment angle that crept in towards the end of your post. But the Alpha/Beta thing... I LOVED


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## spartan

TY guys. It really has worked for me and I can thank Athols log for that. It's all common sense really. 

Punishment... well I don't view it as that at all. I view it as an opportunity to show her that YES I CAN be without you! That YES I AM a great father! That YES there are hundreds and thousands of woman out there that would LOVE to trade places with you right now and have me as their husband!!!

It's not about punishing her as it is about bringing yourself up. Bringing yourself to a position instead of "whoa is me.... cry cry cry" to a position of strength with the knowledge that YOU ARE A GREAT CATCH!!! 

In my book it is very simple:
men hunt
metrosexuals get manicures and weep at chick flicks

which one do you think garners the most respect from women?


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## helpplease

Spartan,
thanks for the advice. I feel you are exactly right. Funny thing is before I read your post, a switch flipped inside me and I forced her to give me OM email. I then called and dd what you said. Well long story short the EA is over, really over. 
Turnera, also I did break it to her family and the excitement left the affair faster than ever. She was blown away that I could do that. I am sorry but this tough, bt it had to be that way.
Now the hardest part. Recovery and building trust. This will prove to be the hardest thing ever to do in my life.
Spartan, the toughest thing is what information I know, it is very painful. Ths whole EA thing was a just for fun thing to the OM but to my wife she bought into it hook line and sinker. I tried to tell her to no avail. Only until the realization of a broken marriage did the OM break it off. What hurts so much is to know that my wife still has the memory of this fake relationship locked inside.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Good to hear. Just remember that affairs are VERY hard to stop cold turkey. It's not unusual for them to reconnect 5, 10, 20 times before it finally really ends, at least on one side. And OM LIE! They will tell YOU to your face, and get right back on the phone to text your wife that he's buying her a 'secret' phone so they can stay in contact. And WS's lie, too, say it's over and have NO intention of stopping, just hide it better. I'm not saying she will, but odds are that they will continue to contact. You will have to monitor for at least a couple months for the typical slip-ups and reconnects.

As for her, what YOU need to do right now is (1) set high standards wherein you have to check her computer and phone with NO backtalk from her, (2) set up pro-marriage marriage counseling (be VERY careful who you choose), (3) use the LB and EN questionnaires from marriagebuilders to get a handle on your marriage problems (you'll have to redo them in a few months, after the fog has lifted and she can start thinking normally), and (4) LISTEN to her; even if it's fogbabble, LISTEN to her so that she feels like she made the right choice. You don't have to agree with what she says and you probably won't, but she has to start seeing you as her protector if she's truly throwing OM away.


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## helpplease

Thanks Tundra.
Well she has one chance. One f'up and it is over. Bye bye kids, house, world. This man is done. I have learned more about my inner self than ever. Too many good people out there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spartan

one thing to always remember is that she will need to grieve the loss of that relationship. As messed up as it is to say it, they will need time to heal from that relationship. In all actuality its a GOOD thing as it gives YOU time to grieve what you have lost as well. 

I am a firm believer that like the million dollar man you can build it better, faster & stronger! lol!! Do yourself a favor and read Athols blog. This can be fixed if you both want it to be fixed- I was not an innocent victim in my wife's EA ( i had one 3 yrs prior) so I can understand how it happens. Kids, bills, life in general....

So in our opinion, we believe that you get 1 mulligan or 1 f* up per relationship. It happened, you truly forgive her (stop checking her phone, her email, her texts.....) but you both should never forget WHY it happened. If you are both committed it will become part of your past and your relationship will become stronger.

Go be an Alpha and if it doesn't work out then honestly you are that much better off for your next relationship. My 2 cents worth:smthumbup:


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## MarkTwain

spartan said:


> one thing to always remember is that she will need to grieve the loss of that relationship. As messed up as it is to say it, they will need time to heal from that relationship.


Good point. A lot of don't realise this until it happens to them.



spartan said:


> I was not an innocent victim in my wife's EA ( i had one 3 yrs prior) so I can understand how it happens. Kids, bills, life in general....


It's all coming out now


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## helpplease

Wife is very clingy now. More so than ever before. I don't necessarily mind, but should I give in to all of this touch? I am not initiating at all. Just curious, uncharted waters here. I
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spartan

be aloof. Go back to the whole "I dont need you in my life to survive, but I want you in it to make it better" 

She wants to cling then that's fine, doesn't mean you have to cling back and start mushing all over her. The easier you make this on her to come back to you the more she will think this wasn't as big of a deal as you made it out to be and have resentment for you.
The easiest thing is to act as though nothing happened and sweep it all under the rug..... bad move if you do.

Time to hold back on gushing out with all the "I love you's" and all the "I am soooo glad we didnt break apart", and "I am soo happy its over between you two".... yada yada yada.

Be cool and let her win you back slowly- dont let her TELL you that she loves you, have her SHOW you with actions.


Good Luck and this is a great step for you!!


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## spartan

MarkTwain said:


> Good point. A lot of don't realise this until it happens to them.
> 
> 
> It's all coming out now


I'm man enough to admit when I made mistakes and also being on both sides of an EA i can understand why and how it happens and also what it feels like when you find out and how to cope on both ends. 

My biggest mistake was when I had mine I turned into a complete sap that put his wife on a pedestal afterwards which in turn led her to not respect me any longer.


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## helpplease

So basically, if she wants to hold my hand in public, let her, she says I love you, reply or don't reply with reciprocation, she wants to get close in bed at night, let her or not. With regards to sex, yes or no, based on who reciprocates. This seems to be her area of pulling me back in.
These may seem elementary questions here but I really need guidance on this one.
I am in total agreement with the pedistal thing. It is bad news.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Have you had the talk yet? About her giving you access to her phone and computer? Writing OM a No Contact letter that YOU send? Filling out Love Buster and Emotional Needs questionnaires so you two can start working on your marriage?


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## helpplease

turnera said:


> Have you had the talk yet? About her giving you access to her phone and computer? Writing OM a No Contact letter that YOU send? Filling out Love Buster and Emotional Needs questionnaires so you two can start working on your marriage?


I have the questionnairea printed and will go over today. In regards to the letter. I talked to IN about issues
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## helpplease

turnera said:


> Have you had the talk yet? About her giving you access to her phone and computer? Writing OM a No Contact letter that YOU send? Filling out Love Buster and Emotional Needs questionnaires so you two can start working on your marriage?


I have the questionnairea printed and will go over today. In regards to the letter. I talked to OM about issues. This talk was 4 days ago. He lives in Europe. Should I email to him or not? I have no physical address. We talked about phone and computer. She asked if I was monitoring. I said treat all communication as you are. Is it can't be said in front of me it should not be said. She said she wants to get rid of phone because of the transparency. I said I am justified to see any and all communications.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

I would email him, with her there. Or have HER email him with you there. Tell him that he had better NEVER EVER contact her again.


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## turnera

helpplease said:


> She asked if I was monitoring. I said treat all communication as you are.


That may be troubling, maybe not. Is she truly giving up on OM, or just defeated? If it's the latter, be VERY careful. She has to WANT to stop.


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## helpplease

turnera said:


> That may be troubling, maybe not. Is she truly giving up on OM, or just defeated? If it's the latter, be VERY careful. She has to WANT to stop.


She says she just wants me to trust her. Says she is being forced to live like Amish (no disrespect meant).
Once all this broke and the right people found out, the fun seems to have disappeared.
She also realized that she was being played by OM in satisfying his own personal needs. Do I just be blunt and ask her how she feels, defeated or done with OM?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

I wouldn't push it. She obviously WANTS to keep him, but feels she can't. Therefore, you have no choice but to monitor her.

Tell her that you cannot keep her married to you, but that you also will not remain married to someone who will not be faithful. And that, because she has now betrayed your trust, if she wants to remain married, she has to accept the fact that you will need time -and PROOF - to get back to trusting her again.

DO NOT AGREE TO JUST TRUST HER.

That is a HUGE red flag that means she wants freedom to find another way to contact him, or else she has learned nothing and is still in the fog and will likely cheat again.

At the same time, you should be moving mountains to FIX your marriage, YOUR half of the marriage. She has to see a reason to choose you over her 'happiness she felt with him.


----------



## spartan

helpplease said:


> So basically, if she wants to hold my hand in public, let her, she says I love you, reply or don't reply with reciprocation, she wants to get close in bed at night, let her or not. With regards to sex, yes or no, based on who reciprocates. This seems to be her area of pulling me back in.
> These may seem elementary questions here but I really need guidance on this one.
> I am in total agreement with the pedistal thing. It is bad news.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My rule of thumb that has worked for me is to not initiate anything- If she wants to hold my hand in public, I will allow her to do so but I will control when I let it go and when I reach back out for it. I know it sounds silly but it is what it is.

She says I Love You, I will simply reply with either "I know" or "me too". Then when I DO say it, it has a lot more impact and meaning.

She wants to cuddle or spoon with you, have her put her head in your chest and dont expect to have sex. 

You want sex, initiate it. Do things that you want and then reciprocate if you know what i mean. 

It's all about becoming the leader in your marriage again. Work on these things and be willing to listen if she brings it up.

My best advice to give you is to go on a guys trip alone for a few days. Get away from the situation and clear your head. Find a way to forgive her (but never forget why you guys are in this place) and then start fresh again. STOP with the spying on her- you know about the EA already! Why torture yourself more?? She went into the EA looking for something to fulfill her life right? She obviously wants to be with you otherwise why would she be trying to pull you back in?? Stop with the insecure behavior (checking phone, texts, email....) and start acting aloof and confident.


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## nice777guy

As an Amish man, I am VERY offended!

But seriously, as someone who's been in your shoes, she likely doesn't want to be monitored because she's looking for ways to continue the relationship. And its a lot easier for her to do so if you aren't asking questions and keeping an eye on her.


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## helpplease

Well lots of information to digest. I do know for a fact that she has said to her friend that she is giving 100% to our relationship and that it is hard but she has to turn off feelings for OM and regain what we had together for the sake of our marriage. Lots of time to go before we will ever be normal but at this point it is all or nothing and she knows where we will be with any more contact. Oh well, life goes on and I am going to be living mine to the fullest, my kids are the glue for me and I will be giving them all of Dad. 
Have a great weekend everyone and thanks again!


----------



## helpplease

This will be my last post for a while. I have one last question for anyone to help with. 
Many questions have been answered by my wife about the EA but the last one that really needs to be done is for her to fill me in on the secret account that was used for communication between her and OM. I would like to see her send the no contact letter via this account for final closer.
I also feel that this is the only way that she will be able to get OM out of her thought process because she will then realize that it is over since she sent the letter and we can move on in building our relationship back up.
I want to know how this secret information was passed between them because, I really don't know if it is still taking place (I don't think so, but who knows) and I also feel that this will allow us as a family to come up with a plan on how this communication cannot happen again? I have asked twice now and she will not disclose. I feel she should.
I hope that makes sense here.

Thanks.


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## turnera

Sorry, but you'll have to be the tough one here, and tell her that your boundary, to accept her back, is for her to show dedication to the marriage by giving you access to that account. This would be a deal breaker for me. 

Otherwise, I would NOT believe her; she has just taken it underground to keep it going. You have no reason to believe otherwise.


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## WantsHappiness

turnera said:


> Sorry, but you'll have to be the tough one here, and tell her that your boundary, to accept her back, is for her to show dedication to the marriage by giving you access to that account. This would be a deal breaker for me.
> 
> Otherwise, I would NOT believe her; she has just taken it underground to keep it going. You have no reason to believe otherwise.


:iagree: completely

Hp, every thread I’ve read on the subject of recovering from an affair suggests complete transparency and openness in this regard. They also suggest that you be involved in the sending of the no contact letter to the OM. You are not requesting anything that is out of line, stand your ground.


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## helpplease

Well more scoop. Wife will not do a no contact letter and will not say what the alternative account she was using. She does not want to give up the other side. She says that she is not communicating with OM but who knows. This was a EA only but she will not let go completely. I don't see anyway to bounce back if she cannot end it in her heart.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Then she needs to leave because she has NO INTENTION of stopping her affair. 

PERIOD.

If you accept her now, she will be cheating on you for the rest of your life because you're too much of a wimp in her mind and she has no respect for you. What kind of marriage is that?


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## cb45

*ouch but true. T is right in that u r a wimp, a beta male, a metro man, if u dont make her leave.

shes like a child, testing u to see if u mean what u say.

me? heck, i'd gotten out the paddle several pgs ago. we wouldnt be here reading this further enabling problem of yers.

if shes not going to assist u in rebuilding trust then.......
u fill in the blank if u can.*


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## helpplease

Harsh but I see point. I have stayed this long for my and my kids sake. I don't know if either of you have children but they are proitrty number one. I could not leave the marriage without being able to tell them that I tried everything to do to keep Mom and Dad together. I can now say that and will move on. Believe me if there were no kids I would have been gone along time ago! I am far from metro, and far from beta but I like many have learned a great deal for the future. I have appointment Monday with lawyer, house will be sold decisions made and we will move on. 
Thanks for the advice everyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Trust me, I understand about the kids; that is why I stayed. It's just that accepting her as is would, IMO, be damaging for the kids, because they'd be growing up learning her skewed version of things, because you accept it. To them, that would mean that it's the right way to be. It's your job to teach them morals and how to live a healthy, upstanding life. If you married someone who can't follow that path, you could at least show them the right way from your side. And I always have hope; that she would SEE you not accepting her crap, and question herself, and maybe see the light, because you had the courage of your convictions.

The hard thing about EAs is that the waywards convince themselves it's really 'not that bad,' what they're doing, since they're not having sex, you know? (that you know of) So why can't they keep it?

The 'why' is that she is reserving her energy and affection that SHOULD be going to YOU, for HIM. That's not a marriage.


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## turnera

Does she know? That you are moving on? It might be good to tell her and give her a day to think on it.


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## stuckinpast

She seems to be pulling herself away. Your life seems to be great most women would die to have a loving caring spouse such as you!
I would sit her down and have a discussion with her and ask if she wants to be married. Her actions and responses to you aren't adding up. I hate to say it but theres got to be more that shes not telling. Don't give up keep picking her brain. Maybe she just is bored and too afraid to say.....Keep asking and keep telling her how you feel. Hope all works out


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## helpplease

stuckinpast said:


> She seems to be pulling herself away. Your life seems to be great most women would die to have a loving caring spouse such as you!


Thanks, and I do appreciate the comments. The bottom line is that we have talked so much and she basically is afraid to commit to me because she is afraid that is we don't workout she will have burned bridge with OM. That is what I get out of it. Also when someone tells you that they don't think that want to be with you any more it is a big stab that goes deep within.
Yes, I did make mistakes in the marriage, and they dealt with me objectifying her as opposes to treating her like a wife. That would be on my end. I did not realize this
And she did not communicate this. So she fell for a person who is thousands of miles away but satisfied what I wasn't doing in her mind, emotional attachment. I have learned a great deal about life, relationships, and myself. I have made commitments to my self to be the man I need to be and that will be my focus. My kids also need to grow up knowing what it takes to be a man. 
So unless a miracle from God, wakes her out if the fantasy of her EA, we will be through, sad but true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## helpplease

turnera said:


> Does she know? That you are moving on? It might be good to tell her and give her a day to think on it.


I told her that she needs to talk to her mother about or future divorce so she is not blind sided. 
I have discussed that we will be getting a divorce and she seems okay, because she believes that her and OM will one day be together and live happily ever after.
We have one day with counselor tomorrow but unless there is a change of heart, it is over. I will move on and let go, but kids are going to be the ones who pay.
She is a little diluted about divorce. She thinks that we will keep the house and take turns living here with kids, while we rent another house that we each share when the other is here. Not going to happen!
House will sell, we will split equity and be on our way, again sad but true.
It seems to be acceptable to her because many of her friends are on second marriages and it is the thing to do.
Turnera, thanks again for your help and honesty, that is the only way to fly 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cb45

happy trails help. stay strong and stick around here at TAM if
u ever need a boost or to help some other folk who'll no doubt 
go thru and feel what u've been thru.


.......................................ray: yer choice always.


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## MarkTwain

helpplease said:


> House will sell, we will split equity and be on our way, again sad but true.


Slow down a minute...

It might not all be over. She is just going through a very powerful fantasy at the moment. She has the idea that a magical Mr. Right can make her life perfect.

At some point she will realize it is not so. A lot of women go through this one. If you can find something to occupy you for about six months or so, it will probably have blown away. Don't do anything hasty unless you really want to see the back of her.

You said you were having sex a lot. What happened to that?


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## turnera

Have you ever exposed the affair to OM's family?


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## helpplease

MarkTwain said:


> Slow down a minute...
> 
> It might not all be over. She is just going through a very powerful fantasy at the moment. She has the idea that a magical Mr. Right can make her life perfect.
> 
> At some point she will realize it is not so. A lot of women go through this one. If you can find something to occupy you for about six months or so, it will probably have blown away. Don't do anything hasty unless you really want to see the back of her.
> 
> You said you were having sex a lot. What happened to that?


We still continued with sex, she ended up saying it is just sex, that's all.
MT, I was to the point that I didn't want her or games anymore and that is what I explained to her.
But much has changed please read last post, major update.


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## helpplease

Well all I can say is that major things have happened over the course of a couple of days. I had started with getting much information about splitting up our assets, financial matters, etc. I was preparing for a lawyer when out of the nowhere she says, that she doesn't want a divorce she wants this over and she wants me. Even agreed to no contact letter. 
It took some time to digest as we went to our counseling session. This BTW is the best counselor ever (number 2). This gentleman knew how to handle this situation with amazing precision. 
During session he immediately noticed how much she had changed about situation from the previous session and could tell the sincerity in all of her statements. We identified some areas to work on to help each of us to start doing with the other, i.e. "giving hugs regularly for affection."-example only
All of my questions/concerns have been answered/worked out. I feel we are on the mend. I will approach my life a little more guarded for now and stronger than I have been in many years. 
Obviously the trust issue is the major problem that will need to be overcome. Counselor has and will continue to address this issue with each visit we have. I just cannot speak highly enough that if you are not happy with a counselor go see someone else, it probably saved our marriage. We shared a "real" embrace and she broke down and finally said the things that should have been said to me all along, you can tell/feel emotions and this was it.
I feel much better and much lighter since I have lost plenty of weight and now have a six pack  It was not the diet of choice but it worked. I also stated that this is a one time deal, any deviation from our marriage (contact OM, EA/PA) will end it immediately, that's the way it has to be for me.
Reflections about everything that has happened in my life:
1. never take your spouse for granted. (someone else is always ready to move in)
2. keep open communication all the time.
3. listen to your spouse and digest what they say. You do not have to agree but acknowledge what was said.
4. Praise/complement your spouse for the appearance, accomplishments whether in the home or in the workplace, etc.
5. Present yourself in a confident manner all the time. (alpha most of the time)
6. Remember, it is easier to run than to fight, but if the fight is worth it put on your gloves!
7. Do not roll over when your spouse wants to try to dominate you. If you have an opinion, state it, there is nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree as long as it is amicable.
8. Never give up your friends for anything (providing they are giving you positive help), they are your lifeline in a stressful situation.
9. Trust your gut and trust it early. The longer affairs go on the tougher it is on everyone.

Thanks again for all the help everyone! I will be climbing up the hill of life and will be on top again, a little scarred, but I feel that I will make it! 
I remain positive about my marriage but I now know that I can survive anything that is thrown at me.


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## turnera

I am SO HAPPY!


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## MEM2020

WH,
Sorry I missed this question. Yes I agree. Full transparency does not seem to be the best policy for either gender. My W has some mystery to her - a little scary - a lot attractive.




WantsHappiness said:


> :iagree: Spend some extra time with your kids, they need you right now.
> 
> I also agree that once this week is up, you need to make sure that there is a clear cut decision one way or the other. I really like the idea of giving her this week to think about it though. It makes her deal with the reality of the situation, take responsibility for her actions and make an evaluated decision. The difference between having her cake and eating it is that in this case she has to have come to a conclusion by the end of the week. It takes away the ability for her to shirk responsibility and let you be the one to leave... or stay and put up with it. She made the decisions to take these actions, to have an EA, and now she should be the one to start the cleanup process whichever direction it heads in.
> 
> 
> 
> I've read a lot of your posts, MEM, and I agree with much of your philosophy on this. Would you agree that a little mystery on the wife's part goes a long way also? Not to the point of being dishonest, just holding back a little bit in the same manner.


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## MEM2020

I think you did an incredible job of pulling this plane out of a flat spin.




helpplease said:


> Well all I can say is that major things have happened over the course of a couple of days. I had started with getting much information about splitting up our assets, financial matters, etc. I was preparing for a lawyer when out of the nowhere she says, that she doesn't want a divorce she wants this over and she wants me. Even agreed to no contact letter.
> It took some time to digest as we went to our counseling session. This BTW is the best counselor ever (number 2). This gentleman knew how to handle this situation with amazing precision.
> During session he immediately noticed how much she had changed about situation from the previous session and could tell the sincerity in all of her statements. We identified some areas to work on to help each of us to start doing with the other, i.e. "giving hugs regularly for affection."-example only
> All of my questions/concerns have been answered/worked out. I feel we are on the mend. I will approach my life a little more guarded for now and stronger than I have been in many years.
> Obviously the trust issue is the major problem that will need to be overcome. Counselor has and will continue to address this issue with each visit we have. I just cannot speak highly enough that if you are not happy with a counselor go see someone else, it probably saved our marriage. We shared a "real" embrace and she broke down and finally said the things that should have been said to me all along, you can tell/feel emotions and this was it.
> I feel much better and much lighter since I have lost plenty of weight and now have a six pack  It was not the diet of choice but it worked. I also stated that this is a one time deal, any deviation from our marriage (contact OM, EA/PA) will end it immediately, that's the way it has to be for me.
> Reflections about everything that has happened in my life:
> 1. never take your spouse for granted. (someone else is always ready to move in)
> 2. keep open communication all the time.
> 3. listen to your spouse and digest what they say. You do not have to agree but acknowledge what was said.
> 4. Praise/complement your spouse for the appearance, accomplishments whether in the home or in the workplace, etc.
> 5. Present yourself in a confident manner all the time. (alpha most of the time)
> 6. Remember, it is easier to run than to fight, but if the fight is worth it put on your gloves!
> 7. Do not roll over when your spouse wants to try to dominate you. If you have an opinion, state it, there is nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree as long as it is amicable.
> 8. Never give up your friends for anything (providing they are giving you positive help), they are your lifeline in a stressful situation.
> 9. Trust your gut and trust it early. The longer affairs go on the tougher it is on everyone.
> 
> Thanks again for all the help everyone! I will be climbing up the hill of life and will be on top again, a little scarred, but I feel that I will make it!
> I remain positive about my marriage but I now know that I can survive anything that is thrown at me.


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## WantsHappiness

MEM11363 said:


> WH,
> Sorry I missed this question. Yes I agree. Full transparency does not seem to be the best policy for either gender. My W has some mystery to her - a little scary - a lot attractive.


Thanks, MEM. I like complete and total honesty for the important things but I think some small stuff can be left unsaid for this very reason. I'm currently learning how to decipher between the two.


Hp, just wanted to say I am so glad that things have taken a major turn for the better. I’m out of my realm at this stage of the game so I won’t say anything further other than a big congratulations! :smthumbup:


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## helpplease

Latest update. Still hanging in there. Many more good days than bad days. The hardest part is that the "love switch" from her is going to take some time to turn on. She thought it would be much easier to just focus back on me and "love me" but it seems that it will take some time. 
It is a very difficult time knowing that your wife loves you but cannot say that she is "in love with you" yet. 
Very hard for me. We still are seeing counselor and are going to watch a good dvd series recommended to us about marriage from the counselor.
This is a big mental struggle trying to maintain sanity. I hope that her emotions come back soon.
We look very much like the perfect couple from the outside in and if I erased the EA I would probably not even know anything was every wrong.


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