# Wife refuses to give freebies



## one_strange_otter (Aug 26, 2008)

So, no sex for about 3 weeks. We've just had an exhausting schedule. She complained a few days ago that I haven't been pursuing her. I tell her she could do some pursuing too if she's in the mood. Last night I make a few comments to warm her up and start thinking about it. I tell her I'm going to be early. She follows. We get in bed. We're spooning. My hands are on her breasts and rubbing her hips and rear. I"m getting excited. Then right when I start kissing her shoulder she says she is spotting and that her period is about to start so she doesn't want to do anything. Well, now I'm fully erect. I don't ask for anything in particular but just say how much I was really looking forward to sex and it's hard to go to sleep with an erection (seriously, I sleep on my stomach and that ain't happening). She basically says that she doesn't want to pleasure me only because she wants to have an orgasm too. Then I really start thinking about it and I can only count about twice a year that I get either a handjob or blowjob when it isn't part of the sex I'm having with her. Basically, there's never anything just for me. She only gets physical if she knows I'm going to take care of her also. It's not that I won't take care of her. Every session starts with oral for her...to completion....so she always gets her cookie so to speak.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

How often do you give her freebies?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## one_strange_otter (Aug 26, 2008)

She won't let me. She only wants a full sex session complete with me. Believe me, I offer plenty.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

you should have put a towl down and banged her.


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## one_strange_otter (Aug 26, 2008)

chillymorn said:


> you should have put a towl down and banged her.


Yeah, I'm pretty sure when she says no, that means it ain't getting in there. regardless of towels or showers or any other suggestions. Trust, I offered to get dirty.... But I think her hang up is that she is hooked on the oral and she knows without it she's a 50/50 on getting off before I do......Especially after 3 weeks of waiting.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

My H and I use a vibrator (for clitoral stimulation) to get me off if for -whatever reason- he can't orally pleasure me.  Have you suggested that?


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## one_strange_otter (Aug 26, 2008)

Cherry said:


> My H and I use a vibrator (for clitoral stimulation) to get me off if for -whatever reason- he can't orally pleasure me. Have you suggested that?


Yup, We've got a toy chest also and she says that's for foreplay and since we aren't having sex she didn't want to get into it.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Call her on it.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Any reason why you can't give yourself a 'helping hand' with her laying next to you/holding you if she doesn't want to 'participate' in any other way?

H and I have done this often when I have been out of commission for one reason or other. You're still together - you're still being intimate - you still get at least some satisfaction - she didn't have to give a 'freebie' - and maybe it would spur her on to 'give a helping hand' some of the time.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Enchantment said:


> Any reason why you can't give yourself a 'helping hand' with her laying next to you/holding you if she doesn't want to 'participate' in any other way?
> 
> H and I have done this often when I have been out of commission for one reason or other. You're still together - you're still being intimate - you still get at least some satisfaction - she didn't have to give a 'freebie' - and maybe it would spur her on to 'give a helping hand' some of the time.


this just seems degrading IMO I've heard others sugest it and well, I think I'd rather fantasize about the hot red head down the hall at work than beg my selfish wife to lay next to me.

maybe if she sugested it and said it turned her on then thats a different story. Its all about attitude


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## SockPuppet (May 16, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> this just seems degrading IMO I've heard others sugest it and well, I think I'd rather fantasize about the hot red head down the hall at work than beg my selfish wife to lay next to me.
> 
> maybe if she sugested it and said it turned her on then thats a different story. Its all about attitude


:lol:

I suggest re-phrasing from 'freebies' to something else. Words are powerful tools. When you and your wife are laying in bed discussing freebies, what your really saying is: Give one to me, and I wont give one to you.

Anything that involves my wife and I, and an orgasm is sex. I let her know when Im in the mood for sex, and she does the same. This doesnt mean we have to have missionary style vaginal intercourse with the lights off... No, we have options as we use the word loosley. Maybe tonight we will have the lights on in missionary style. The possibilities are endless, but I digress.

Try that, it very well might work for you. Words... Good stuff.

I would also recommend fidning out what sex means to your wife. Some women are looking for that quick-O, and nothing more. Some women enjoy the idea of sex, and *want* to fulfill their partners sexual satisfaction. Other women still have their own opinions on the matter not covered above, the possibilities are endless.

Converse, Converse, Converse. And then a little more.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

:lol::lol::lol::lol: Word
one why in the world do you call the fact that you wanted her to share something other than vaginal sex with you a freebie. 

You and your wife seem to be hung up on counting out orgasms like kids - one for you and one for me.......

I think you have to reframe the way you both view sex in your relationship. I will use my husband and I as an example. He is HD and I am lower. Sometimes I am up for affection but not for oral for me or vaginal sex. Naturally, when we cuddle he gets aroused and I give him a happy ending. 

I got what I needed and I give to him because i want him to feel as happy and satisfied as i feel and I appreciate him. He never ask and sometimes he refuses if he feels that I am obviously too sick or too tired to move. 

That's what you are talking about right? So where is the freebie??? I need affection from the man I love. It's probably not as strong a need as a man's for sex but, I feel loved, calm, de-stressed and connected to my husband when I get my quota of affection. 

Do you think you could see your relationship as an intimate shared life with the person you love? I think if you both look at it from that standpoint, you will avoid counting orgasms like beans. 

What do you think?


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

Aren't you the same guy that said your wife has a "fat pu$$y" and that she was a "train wreck"? Maybe your harsh attitude about your wife is impacting your marriage and sex life.


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

My wife is more or less the same...there is no such thing as a 'free lunch' with her.
I happily give her a head/neck/shoulder massage etc and not expect anything back - I have become 'conditioned' to not getting anything anyway.

However, whenever I used to hint that I was horny etc and would like 'something' (eg hj...) it always carried a 'price'....'you can massage my back whilst I'm doing it'.

Now, I still give her massages etc but I NEVER ask/hint for anything. 

She has never done something for ME simply because she wants to do something for me. Sad.

It comes from her background.... She is German, her parents are retired (75 and 70yrs) have a house in Germany and a house in France. They spend 8 months a year in France. Her father had to go back to Germany for minor but invasive stomach surgery. 
His wife stayed in France.
He was in hospital 5 days then sent home to an 'empty' house. My sister in law lives in the same German town but 30 mins drive away...but she was 'too' busy to help her father.

I couldnt believe it! here was an 'old' man who spent 5 days in hospital then sent home yet no one from his immediate family was interested in helping him out!
My wife comes from a family where 'love' is conditional. 

I managed to shame her into getting on a plane...this in turn shamed her mother who also got on a plane.

If you truly love someone you 'have' to do things for/to them that maybe you don't really want to do...but you do it because you love them.... its called unconditional love.

Sorry for the lengthy whinge...but had to get it off my chest!


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> :lol::lol::lol::lol: Word
> one why in the world do you call the fact that you wanted her to share something other than vaginal sex with you a freebie.
> 
> You and your wife seem to be hung up on counting out orgasms like kids - one for you and one for me.......
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

The thought process does sound like score keeping. My W and I have never made a habit of that and have had a happy sex life our entire marriage. 

Some times she does, sometimes I do and sometimes we do together. Its all good. Sometimes I give her oral and get her off and then just walk away just to show her that I'm into her for more than my gratification.

Sometimes I get magnificent road head at the most unexpected times for the same reason.


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## Oldmatelot (Mar 28, 2011)

We found that this book helped with this very issue.

Amazon.com: Lube Jobs: A Woman's Guide to Great Maintenance Sex (9781585425617): Debra Macleod, Don Macleod: Books

Lube Jobs: A Woman's Guide to Great Maintenance Sex


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> this just seems degrading IMO I've heard others sugest it and well, I think I'd rather fantasize about the hot red head down the hall at work than beg my selfish wife to lay next to me.
> 
> maybe if she sugested it and said it turned her on then thats a different story. Its all about attitude


Oooh..yah, if you have to go about it by begging, then likely my idea won't work.

My H has never, ever begged. And this works really well for us, but you're right - it's in the attitude of both of the participants - because we are really both willing to try and open up our sexuality to the other.


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## one_strange_otter (Aug 26, 2008)

Wow, I leave the post for a while and things go nuts. Basically, if she ain't getting off neither am I. There is no touching during the period. Also, she just doesn't give sexual favors outside of the bedroom at all except the rare occasion we might be out of town alone and I really drop a ton of hints or flat out ask for it. Then I get a "well, fine then". 

As for some of the other comments, I never told her she had a fat pu$$y. I said it felt like there was friction because of her weight but it was only dryness. I never said she was a train wreck. I said it was like watching a train wreck about to happen. You know it's going to be bad but there's nothing you can do to stop it.


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## Hubby01 (Jul 5, 2011)

one_strange_otter said:


> Then I really start thinking about it and I can only count about twice a year that I get either a handjob or blowjob when it isn't part of the sex I'm having with her.


Good going, you're about twice a year in front of a few of us.

Seriously, I would have given her a kiss rolled over and taken care of myself (right there in the bed) and slept happy. She had an option and chose not to be involved, not your loss.


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## Prometheus Pyrphoros (Jun 16, 2011)

Is this really as it is? You will offer/do whatever she wants and she acts selfishly?

If yes, then NEXT!

Now you'll be hearing from people about how you should check out if you're meeting all her emotional needs etc. blah blah just so you could hope for a freebie once or twice a year. Get real.

Flame suit on.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Wtf? Spotting is no big deal. Hell, hubs just puts down a towel during my heavy days lol....although if there are cramps, it's a no go.

And the fact that she didn't get you off someway is kinda shetty. No, it's super shetty. You were erect and she just ignored it. Lame.

I do lots of sexual things with Hubs and maybe only 1/2 the time do I climax. I don't care! It's not about the orgasm for me. In fact, I prefer NOT to finish sometimes because once I'm done, sometimes I'm just done and I hate that. lol. My body will literally push him out.

In any case, I would feel rejected and bitter about that, especially if it is a pattern. I also don't understand the "no sex while spotting" thing.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

one_strange_otter said:


> Wow, I leave the post for a while and things go nuts. Basically, if she ain't getting off neither am I. There is no touching during the period. Also, she just doesn't give sexual favors outside of the bedroom at all except the rare occasion we might be out of town alone and I really drop a ton of hints or flat out ask for it. Then I get a "well, fine then".


I would kill myself *(ok not really) if my spouse was such a selfish prude. holy crap. Did you get married for this crap? i know I didn't. Unless there is a good reason for someone to treat their spouse this way (dismissive, etc) then they don't deserve to be married. You could get more play as a single man. Shet. this stuff just angers me. Sorry  The women like this amaze me because they behave this way and then act shocked when their men walk out. lol idiots. They say, "He should love me for me!" blah blah....yea, but he didn't get married to have a sister.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I would kill myself *(ok not really) if my spouse was such a selfish prude. holy crap. Did you get married for this crap? i know I didn't. Unless there is a good reason for someone to treat their spouse this way (dismissive, etc) then they don't deserve to be married. You could get more play as a single man. Shet. this stuff just angers me. Sorry  The women like this amaze me because they behave this way and then act shocked when their men walk out. lol idiots. They say, "He should love me for me!" blah blah....yea, but he didn't get married to have a sister.


:lol::lol::iagree::iagree:


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I would kill myself *(ok not really) if my spouse was such a selfish prude. holy crap. Did you get married for this crap? i know I didn't. Unless there is a good reason for someone to treat their spouse this way (dismissive, etc) then they don't deserve to be married. You could get more play as a single man. Shet. this stuff just angers me. Sorry  The women like this amaze me because they behave this way and then act shocked when their men walk out. lol idiots. They say, "He should love me for me!" blah blah....yea, but he didn't get married to have a sister.


You either got a totally different set of information about what sex in marriage ought to be about, or got the same information the OP's wife did and interpretted it entirely differently...


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## one_strange_otter (Aug 26, 2008)

I want to give that_girl's husband a pat on the back and shake his hand because he has a woman that just gets it. 

The only thing my wife and I have in common during sex is that we are both thinking of her.

I think that sums it up nicely.


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## VeryShyGirl (Feb 18, 2010)

Interesting thread. I've been wondering how many MEN give their WIVES "freebies". 

In a former long term relationship my boyfriend insisted on/enjoyed doing this for me from time to time.

My husband (who I've been with for 6 years and who is a great guy) has NEVER even hinted at doing this. And yes I HAVE done it for him on occasion.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> You either got a totally different set of information about what sex in marriage ought to be about, or got the same information the OP's wife did and interpretted it entirely differently...


Everyone has to decide what married sex means to THEM in THEIR marriage. It is a matter of choice, not absolute "shoulds" and "oughts."

It is no coincidence that TG and I have happy marriages *and *great sex lives.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> Everyone has to decide what married sex means to THEM in THEIR marriage. It is a matter of choice, not absolute "shoulds" and "oughts."


Absolutely. The problem arises when this is not a matter for discussion, and both sides simply entrench. Or _one_ partner decides on behalf of _both_ what it means and decides that anyone who doesn't agree is just plain wrong.



> It is no coincidence that TG and I have happy marriages *and *great sex lives.


Likewise. I don't decide what my wife should think about sex, she doesn't decide what I should think about sex. We both know what we like, don't like, what, where, when and how. Because we communicate about it and don't take ourselves too seriously.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

VeryShyGirl said:


> Interesting thread. I've been wondering how many MEN give their WIVES "freebies".
> 
> In a former long term relationship my boyfriend insisted on/enjoyed doing this for me from time to time.
> 
> My husband (who I've been with for 6 years and who is a great guy) has NEVER even hinted at doing this. And yes I HAVE done it for him on occasion.


I do. At the risk of a cliche: "Doesn't everyone?":rofl:


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

otter ~

Based on this and your other thread, what is you and your wife's life and intereactions in general, outside the bedroom, like? 

Having 'keeping score' mentalities and such in the bedroom suggest there may be larger issues looming outside that bedroom door. Just curious where your issues may lie, and whether you and your wife have tried exploring those?

She seems fairly unconcerned about trying to keep you happy sexually, is she like this in other areas with you? I know you mentioned her weight in your other thread, is she down about that?

Best wishes.


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## one_strange_otter (Aug 26, 2008)

Enchantment,

Outside the bedroom? Pretty much room mates. Or, like I have three kids and a babysitter (seriously, 35 and you should hear her go on about twilight). She doesn't clean much. She rarely does dishes. She doesn't cook (unless once or twice a month counts). Laundry is about the only thing. Every now and then she will get a wild hair and start meticulously cleaning some random part of the house. She does make up our bed everyday and tends to keep the bathroom organized but the floors are covered in hair and junk. I don't know if she is down about her weight really. She laughs when people asks if she's pregnant (she carries everything right in front like a volleyball under her shirt, it's weird). She only wants to try pills or surgery, not actual exercise or diet. I'm taken for granted for the most part. When I try and give a directive to the kids she's the first one asking me why they have to. 

We've gone to counseling. They told me basically to quit being such a doormat and stand up to her. Tried it and got so much resistance it became unbearable. Tough to explain, she's not mean. She doesn't berate me. She just doesn't say she appreciates anything I do.

And yes, I do tell her how much I appreciate things. The entire past school year she never got out of bed in the mornings and left me to wake, dress and get the two older ones to school on time. They already ride with me on my way to work. This year she gets up and gets them going but they are never ready on time when we need to leave. I surprised her with a card that I left in the van so she would really be surprised. Told her how much I appreciate her getting the kids up and going. I had hoped she would feel a little pride and work harder on her own to get them ready but it sort of backfired because it was like telling her it was ok to keep doing it the way she was.

I just don't get it. She doesn't even consider a meal schedule. It's always a surprise to her that the kids are hungry. Never a plan, never set out meat to thaw. Just knows I'll get drive thru because there is no other option that late at night when everyone is starving. I could keep going.....


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> You either got a totally different set of information about what sex in marriage ought to be about, or got the same information the OP's wife did and interpretted it entirely differently...


Why? Are you being facetious? If not, then ....I don't get what you're saying...

If so, then, what is sex in marriage about then? Using it as a bargaining tool? Saying there will be a BJ in the man's future if the woman gets XYZ? I don't get it. Please enlighten me about what sex in marriage ought to be about.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Why? Are you being facetious? If not, then ....I don't get what you're saying...
> 
> If so, then, what is sex in marriage about then? Using it as a bargaining tool? Saying there will be a BJ in the man's future if the woman gets XYZ? I don't get it. Please enlighten me about what sex in marriage ought to be about.


You seem to have a grownup attitude about mutuality, the OP's partner that sex is something you dole out like kids with sweets - one for you, one for me. Your way sounds like the way to go, IMO.


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## HaHa (Oct 1, 2010)

> I would kill myself *(ok not really) if my spouse was such a selfish prude. holy crap. Did you get married for this crap? i know I didn't. Unless there is a good reason for someone to treat their spouse this way (dismissive, etc) then they don't deserve to be married. You could get more play as a single man. Shet. this stuff just angers me. Sorry The women like this amaze me because they behave this way and then act shocked when their men walk out. lol idiots. They say, "He should love me for me!" blah blah....yea, but he didn't get married to have a sister.


. 

:iagree:

I agree. Towels and showers are great things..lol..Even if I am not in the mood, what’s so hard about giving a quick hand job or blow job? It’s just 15 minutes out of your life and then we both got what we wanted and are happy.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

one_strange_otter said:


> Enchantment,
> 
> Outside the bedroom? Pretty much room mates. Or, like I have three kids and a babysitter (seriously, 35 and you should hear her go on about twilight). She doesn't clean much. She rarely does dishes. She doesn't cook (unless once or twice a month counts). Laundry is about the only thing. Every now and then she will get a wild hair and start meticulously cleaning some random part of the house. She does make up our bed everyday and tends to keep the bathroom organized but the floors are covered in hair and junk. I don't know if she is down about her weight really. She laughs when people asks if she's pregnant (she carries everything right in front like a volleyball under her shirt, it's weird). She only wants to try pills or surgery, not actual exercise or diet. I'm taken for granted for the most part. When I try and give a directive to the kids she's the first one asking me why they have to.
> 
> ...


Well, otter. What is it that you really would like out of your relationship with your wife? And are you WILLING to work to get that?

As far as her weight issues, has she had a check-up recently? Carrying extra belly weight can be a sign of insulin resistance or pre-diabetes. I'm sure that the pills that she is talking about taking don't include insulin or insulin shots. 

And, I would be surprised if she isn't hurt by people always making mention of her being pregnant when she isn't. I would bet that she's putting on a false front in laughing it off, but that it really hurts inside. If I were you, I would assume that she's hiding how much it really hurts her.

Does she work outside the home too? If not, and the house is not clean and she has problems getting the kids to school, perhaps she should be evaluated for depression.

I like Twilight too. I've loved vampires since I was a young teen and saw Michael Nouri on "The Curse of Dracula" many years ago. I think it speaks to that romantic, "I want to have a guy so into me, I want those chemicals of new love swimming around in my brain" feeling again. You know what - you can re-kindle that kind of feeling if you are willing to. I don't know how willing you are to try and do that, though. Let us know.

God Bless.


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## one_strange_otter (Aug 26, 2008)

Enchantment,

I may have missed it in this thread but she is type 2 insulin dependent diabetic. As long as she can keep getting meds for it then she doesn't plan on stopping the junk food. She's at home alone with the kids today because I'm at work and they are out of school and I can bet a dollar that she will ask me to pick something up on the way home because they were "just too much to handle and cook at the same time". Funny, it never stops me.

She works part time 9-2 on tuesday, wed, thursday. Older two kids go to school where I work and the baby is at the daycare all day. So, from 2-5 she could be planning dinner but she chooses to nap instead. And don't even ask about mon and friday because apparently she just needs all of those two days to just relax and chill out. It seems like the only good time to do housework is when I'm home.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

I'm not sure I get why you stay. Sex is a chore, and chores are non-existent. What do you possibly get out of this relationship? I'd be planning an exit route.


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## one_strange_otter (Aug 26, 2008)

SunnyT said:


> I'm not sure I get why you stay. Sex is a chore, and chores are non-existent. What do you possibly get out of this relationship? I'd be planning an exit route.


Good question. Honestly, I wish she was mean. I wish she would berate me in front of the kids. I wish she had an addiction. I wish she would let me catch her cheating or something. Anything to make it simple to say goodbye. But it's so difficult to tell someone you don't want to be with them any more just because they are lazy. Just because they are selfish in bed. I mean people see us as being married almost 14 years now with a fairly nice house, we don't argue in public, no drinking excessively, no partying, no drugs. Our first counselor said we were the kind of couple that needed to have a dozen kids because we knew how to be parents. But that's all we are together anymore. She is either hiding her feelings about it or just resolved herself to think that I'm just always going to be distant. I don't know. It's frustrating. If only she was abusive. LOL


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

You honestly have to stop allowing her to live like a princess. As one of my favorite parenting experts says of children, you need to kick her out of the Garden of Eden.

That doesn't mean you passively stop cleaning and see how much dirt she can tolerate before she bucks up. You've tried that. She can tolerate more than you can. You stop cleaning and explicitly assign the task to her.

You've got to take the lead in your relationship. She acts like a child. Treat her like a child. She seems to prefer it. But she wants you to spoil her. Don't do that.

If she watches too much TV, discontinue your cable service. If she's online too much, discontinue your internet. You can find something she cares about and take it away until she starts carrying her own weight.

If she refuses to cook, then go home, get the kids and take them out for dinner. Leave her behind to fend for herself.

If she absolutely refuses to do anything, then use her salary to hire a housekeeper and ready-made meals (something like Family Chef ® | Home Delivered Meals | Prepared Gourmet Meal Delivery) ready to throw in the oven. It may require her entire salary to make up for her domestic deficiencies, but so be it. At least the burden is off you. And she experiences the drawbacks of having zero spending money.

If things are as bad as you say, then you've got to get mean. Write her a schedule and tell her you expect her to stick to it. Lay out the clothes you want her to wear. Give her an offer she can't refuse. Either buck up and start pulling your own weight, or hit the bricks because the kids and I will be better off without the dead weight.

I would certainly try this tactic before you file for divorce. And there is a chance that she will respond very positively in all areas to your imposing discipline on her.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

one_strange_otter said:


> just resolved herself to think that I'm just always going to be distant.


Ah... well, then - be the first to break the stalemate.

Take PHTlump's advice above and see what happens. What do you have to lose?

Divorce Busting® - I Want to Save My Marriage - Why Change?


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## one_strange_otter (Aug 26, 2008)

PHTLump,

I've tried putting my foot down before. We can't even get past the part where I try and tell her it's her job to do the cooking and cleaning since she has two days during the week that she is home alone and she has 3 hrs every other day alone before anyone gets home. I try to explain that I'm not saying it's a woman's place to do these things, just that she has time and I don't. I can't be expected to come home at 6:15 in the evening and then decide what's for dinner and start cleaning the house. I'd love to turn off the tv, but then what would I do to relax at night. I'd love to turn off the internet, but I need it for work. But these are the drawbacks of me being the classic nice guy.

Here's an example, she can be laid out on the couch, house filthy, kids digging in the fridge, when I get home. But if she even goes to the corner store then I feel like I'm going to be in trouble for some reason if I'm even just sitting down when she gets back. I put that on myself for some reason. Like I have to be doing something when she shows up... I'm a mess.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

one_strange_otter said:


> PHTLump,
> 
> I've tried putting my foot down before. We can't even get past the part where *I try and tell her *it's her job to do the cooking and cleaning since she has two days during the week that she is home alone and she has 3 hrs every other day alone before anyone gets home. *I try to explain *that I'm not saying it's a woman's place to do these things, just that she has time and I don't. I can't be expected to come home at 6:15 in the evening and then decide what's for dinner and start cleaning the house. I'd love to turn off the tv, but then what would I do to relax at night. I'd love to turn off the internet, but I need it for work. But these are the drawbacks of me being the classic nice guy.
> 
> Here's an example, she can be laid out on the couch, house filthy, kids digging in the fridge, when I get home. But if she even goes to the corner store then I feel like I'm going to be in trouble for some reason if I'm even just sitting down when she gets back. I put that on myself for some reason. Like I have to be doing something when she shows up... I'm a mess.


Okay. Let's start getting you outta that mess, then. And by that I mean you working to get to the place where you've got some self-respect and some sense of worth in yourself. You've gotta try, otter, because even if you literally leave this mess at some point, you'd still be dragging around your own internal, personal 'mess' into another relationship.

You say you're a "classic" nice guy. Did you read the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy"? Visit their web-site?

Take the test: No More Mr. Nice Guy! - Take the No More Mr. Nice Guy! Self-Assessment

Read the book: http://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

Learn to make the change:
See, PHTlump's suggestions were not about 'talking'. They were about 'action'. Your post here is all about talking, but you are going to have to put things into action (and yes, it's hard but GRATIFYING) in order to get things moving in a different direction.

Please consider posting over in the Men's Clubhouse, otter. I want you to have something really badly - if not a better marriage, I really, really want you to be able to have a better YOU.

Best wishes.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

one_strange_otter said:


> PHTLump,
> 
> I've tried putting my foot down before. We can't even get past the part where I try and tell her it's her job to do the cooking and cleaning since she has two days during the week that she is home alone and she has 3 hrs every other day alone before anyone gets home. I try to explain that I'm not saying it's a woman's place to do these things, just that she has time and I don't. I can't be expected to come home at 6:15 in the evening and then decide what's for dinner and start cleaning the house.


She knows that the best defense is a good offense. The question becomes not whether she's lazy, but whether you're sexist. That's a sh!t test. By engaging her, you've lost your frame and you're letting her set the rules of engagement. You failed the test.

So stop that. Stop trying to convince her that you're right and she's wrong. That's impossible. Narcissistic, immature people can't be convinced that they're being unreasonable. Would you try to convince a 5 year-old that a healthy diet is important, and therefore cookies for dinner is a poor lifestyle choice? Of course not. You just make the choice for them and hope that the habits that you forcibly ingrain during childhood will result in good choices when your child attains the proper perspective and appreciation for consequences that is necessary to choose a proper diet (i.e. adulthood).

Just tell your wife that she now has chores X, Y, and Z. Then you walk away. She will complain. She will argue. Don't argue back. Just enforce the consequences when the chores don't get done. Literally treat her like a 5 year-old. When a child screams, you don't scream back. You just stand constant to your decision. You're in charge. Act like it.



one_strange_otter said:


> I'd love to turn off the tv, but then what would I do to relax at night. I'd love to turn off the internet, but I need it for work. But these are the drawbacks of me being the classic nice guy.


Right. You like the TV. But do you like it more than she does? Start reading books. Get a hobby. Build ships in bottles. Something that is available to you, but not her.

As for internet, you can password protect your computer, or perhaps get a laptop that you carry with you to work and back. You have to be creative.



one_strange_otter said:


> Here's an example, she can be laid out on the couch, house filthy, kids digging in the fridge, when I get home. But if she even goes to the corner store then I feel like I'm going to be in trouble for some reason if I'm even just sitting down when she gets back. I put that on myself for some reason. Like I have to be doing something when she shows up... I'm a mess.


Right. You're living in fear. And that's ridiculous. Right now, you are 98% responsible for yourself, your children, and your household. Should the potential of assuming another 2% really be that scary? Of course not. So give her the choice of pulling her weight, or you'll assume her 2% and she can go be 100% in charge of somewhere else. That will scare her.


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

one_strange_otter said:


> I want to give that_girl's husband a pat on the back and shake his hand because he has a woman that just gets it.
> 
> The only thing my wife and I have in common during sex is that we are both thinking of her.I think that sums it up nicely.


:iagree::iagree::smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

one_strange_otter said:


> Good question. Honestly, I wish she was mean. I wish she would berate me in front of the kids. I wish she had an addiction. I wish she would let me catch her cheating or something. Anything to make it simple to say goodbye. But it's so difficult to tell someone you don't want to be with them any more just because they are lazy. Just because they are selfish in bed. I mean people see us as being married almost 14 years now with a fairly nice house, we don't argue in public, no drinking excessively, no partying, no drugs. Our first counselor said we were the kind of couple that needed to have a dozen kids because we knew how to be parents. But that's all we are together anymore. She is either hiding her feelings about it or just resolved herself to think that I'm just always going to be distant. I don't know. It's frustrating. If only she was abusive. LOL


she needs to know the effect she is having on you. Most of us want to be loved and treated with love, im sure your wife is no different. She needs to know what she is doing or not doing that puts your ability to continue to love in her jeopardy. She has to see how her life is going to be ultimately affected with out you in it. Knowing how she is affecting you may not be enough as is often the case. Humans respond much more favorably when there is a strong "whats in it for me" motivator.

you are going to need to start a lot of conversations with "when you......I feel". You can have a two person marital intervention with her lol. And you are going to have to decide what your non negotiables are and stick to the consequences. Otherwise resign yourself to another umpteen years of this bull****.

It not the great big things that have people walking away. Its the daily insult and injury either intentionally or neglectfully we visit upon each other each day. Those things that bruise our emotions, dents our self worth, and smothers the love and affection we have for each other until the marriage has been so assaulted it can no longer survive under the current conditions.

there is your crossroad. life doesn't let you sit in the middle on this one. Even inaction makes a choice for you.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I must have lead a very sheltered unromantic life. I have never experienced a 'freebie' and have never really thought that was something people did.


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## Ello1012 (Oct 26, 2011)

What's a freebie?lol!


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## steam (May 21, 2012)

never really undwerstood why no sex during TTOTM. W and i never stopped oral od vag sex during that period.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Eww.... no oral during TTOM. Yeah, that's what turns me on.... a mouth full of pennies and SHAME! Sex no problem. Lay a towel down and soldier on! It helps some women with cramps but she could bleed after she orgasms five or six times.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

"a mouth full of pennies and SHAME!"

WTH does that even mean?

Also, zombie thread.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I would have finished it myself and left the wet spot on her side of the bed.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

What a tease! I would never let my h start getting amorous like that if I had no intention of having sex. 
I have this issue with my h who won't give or receive unless we are both getting off and intercourse is involved.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Zombie thread.


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## one_strange_otter (Aug 26, 2008)

And they keep pulling me back in......


Ok, yeah, there was never any "hey, i'm on my period but I know you are still human and have needs so I'll just give you a blowjob 'just because'."

For anyone reading (and because I can't remember if it's mentioned in this thread) wife and I are splitting up. I asked back in january for a divorce, we've been sleeping in separate rooms since. I have another thread on here where she came in my bedroom one saturday morning about two months ago and basically offered a physical relationship until we are physically split but when I went for it she exclaimed "I didn't mean right now!". Anyways, I digress....


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## one_strange_otter (Aug 26, 2008)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> :rofl: :lol:
> 
> "road head" sounds like a hell of a lot more fun than roadkill. :rofl:
> 
> ...




There you go assuming two people are in love and unselfish with their affections.....crazy lady....lol


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

lamaga said:


> "a mouth full of pennies and SHAME!"
> 
> WTH does that even mean?


The taste of blood has often been associated with the taste of copper.

I don`t know why.


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