# Understanding the "Why" for Affairs



## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

GENERAL QUESTION:scratchhead:

I know all BS are struggling to understanding "why" their spouses were unfaithful, lied, kept secrets, and had EA/PA. I also know WS are diverse and the reasons "why" they do what they do is different. Still, can we build a portfolio of reasons "why" it happens.

Any one who has figured out why their spouse cheated (or if you were the cheater) please share your theory for why it all played out the way it did. 

MY SITUATION

In addition, I'd love to hear your theories on my particular case - because I really don't understand the root causes of my husband's deceit and wandering outside of marriage. I'll try to condense the relevant points of my story:

We were madly in love in the summer of 2009. Because of different (and enemy) nationalities, we were forced to live abroad until June 2011. While abroad, my husband couldn't work (because of his nationality and the laws of the countries we lived in), which was hard for him. He cooked a lot and cleaned the house while I taught English abroad.

There were no indications of being unfaithful. At that time, I didn't care if he watched porn - we watched it together sometimes before and that was fun. One time, rather than go to me, he secretly was watching porn which had someone of his ethnicity and for some reason it really bothered me. Then I never wanted to watch porn with him. In the future, he would delete websites if he watched porn. Though honestly I don't think he watched porn THAT often. He was not a sex addict or anything. Moreover, he was never unfaithful abroad. I am 100% positive of this, but don't want to ramble unnecessary information.

Once we arrived in the USA (June 2011), we had much better internet access but we lived in the rural boonies with my folks for the first year as we saved money and I applied to grad schools. He got a decent job and worked 40+ hrs a week. Shortly before our one year anniversary (Nov. 2011), I found evidence of another email account. Ultimately, I found out that he was emailing several girls who spoke his native language who were in chat rooms. The emails were sometimes harmless but the language was endearing and lovey-dovey. Strangely, there were several different girls he would email and there were no sexual emails or anything.

This was a hard time for me, because I realized that this perfect husband was doing something very abnormal and I was hurt that he would use the "my darling" language with other random ladies on the internet. He explained to me that he was going through cultural shock and was searching for people who spoke his language to connect with online. This had gone on for over a month.

After that, I could no longer trust him fully. But slowly I got better. He was very defensive about my controlling behavior and would get upset that I was "still" not better (after one week even). For the sake of our marriage, I tried to be a strong person and I rug-swept and kept it all a big secret. Things got better. We both tried to be better husband/wives. But after several months passed I felt like he would still delete websites or clear history. I assumed it was porn and at one point I explained how his watching porn was hurtful because I was now very sensitive.

We moved to a large city where I attend grad school. One day (Aug 2012) I went to take a bath. I was reading a book and saw an insightful comment that I wanted to share with him and jumped out of the shower. He had headphones on and was surprised as I ran over. He moved the windows. I quickly grabbed the computer and moved the windows and saw him watching porn (after he told me he wouldn't). He twisted my words from before saying that he never said he wouldn't watch it anymore but that he would less. He never even tried having sex with me before watching it. He said it would help him be more ready for sex with me after the bath - right...

Porn is not a crazy bad issue. I should have more concerned with deceit however. In any case, I forgave and things were normal. Then about four or so weeks ago he started always wanting to go driving around and exploring the city while I studied. Even if he had finished work. At his last job he would always be too tired after work. He says the job he works now is not tiring and most days he is full of energy after work. 

I should note he is extremely curious by nature. I sometimes get impatient with it - like grocery shopping... He could spend three hours grocery shopping looking at every single product. I'd rather grab what I want and be out. This encouraged him to visit different big grocery stores and what not alone. In some ways, at first I was happy that he was no longer dependent on me. Before (when we lived with my folks) he always wanted to go out together (though we really didn't have the money to do much and he isn't into walking in nature). He always wanted to see everything - every shop, every place that had action. I wished he would enjoy more "hanging out" watching a movie but he feels "stuck" in the house too easily.

After he suddenly wanted to explore and no longer asked me to join him and would be out for four or five our stretches, I became kind of sad. It was not that I suspected something but I had this negative feeling which was unidentifiable. 

Just less than one week ago, I borrowed his phone and found some random calls to girls which were not normal. I called them and I found out he was trying to get one girl working at the mall to go out to a hookah cafe with him. Another girl was an escort. 
After a confrontation and break-down, I ask him to tell me everything no matter how hard it was (and told him he had a week to come 100% clean with everything). He told me that he also one day ago went to a strip club and bought a bear. He got the number of a stripper at the club. This all occurred the night before our anniversary. Note that we also had sex that very same morning (that he went to the strip club in the afternoon) and we went out for hookah that night (this being before I knew the truth).

He is a hardworking person of good character. He has been a good husband, though previously I lamented having passed the "in love" stage and no longer having much holding hands and what not. 

His biggest character flaw is that he has a tendency to be deceitful when it makes him uncomfortable telling the truth. Like he didn't want his family to know he didn't have a job when he was abroad. And even when we first arrived in the US he wanted them to believe he had a job right away. I should have come down harder on this before. 

What I don't get is his first major deceit (chat room, emails) was not sexual at all but rather this fantasy lovey-dovey talk with multiple girls. The next major deceit was both sexual and not-yet there. He wanted to go out with one girl (but perhaps to court her first). The escort call and secret presence at a strip club are sexually-motivated of course.

So what is it? He says he loves me (and is in love with me) and that our marriage is fine and that I am not doing anything wrong. Is he a sex addict (though not as extreme as some) or just incredibly curious? Note that he comes from a country with extreme moral social control. His mom is the most moral person I know and he wouldn't even want her to know that he has drunk sometimes (though not often). 

He is VERY smart, yet he only has an education through 9th grade because his family couldn't afford further education for all the kids. His English is now getting much better but when we met I knew more of his language than he of mine. I'm significantly more educated than him. I was the breadwinner when we first were together. Maybe he felt inadequate in some ways. 

PLEASE RESPOND TO THIS THREAD WITH::scratchhead:

1. "Why" you cheated or were subject to a cheater
2. "Why" you believe my spouse cheated on me - all theories welcome!


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## brokenhearted2 (Aug 23, 2012)

totallyunexpected said:


> GENERAL QUESTION:scratchhead:
> 
> I know all BS are struggling to understanding "why" their spouses were unfaithful, lied, kept secrets, and had EA/PA. I also know WS are diverse and the reasons "why" they do what they do is different. Still, can we build a portfolio of reasons "why" it happens.
> 
> ...



First let me say- run. Thank God you don't have children - you'd be facing an International custody battle and worse case scenario - parental kidnapping back to his homeland where you'd never see your children again. 
Why did he cheat? My guess is:
1) no respect for women
2) father probably cheated on mother
3) probably feels like a kid in a candy store here in the USA with all the strip clubs and the cultural wasteland that is called entertainment...
4) possibly does love you, but sees nothing wrong with secrets and cheating - feels entitled

Is this really how you want to spend the rest of your life? You sound smart, so cut your losses and walk away. Opposites attract- that is certainly true but there is a reason marriages are difficult between cultures - sounds like you should have dated him, experienced the thrills of new love and let it play out. Sometimes the best boyfriends are the WORST husbands. 
Good luck, but really- find a lawyer. Fast.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

You probably won't like my answer, but then most people here don't. My ex was crazy. You can't speak to someone for whom the answer to 2+2 is 5.

Cheaters are, at the end of the day, totally self-centered. They also lack foresight. 

Which means they are going to have a very rough future.


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## shattered32 (Nov 19, 2012)

i am still trying to figure out why i got cheated on , i have never done anything to have what was done to me. My wife says there were issues which eventually led to her getting interested in someone else who happened to be around and before she realized it , she ended up sleeping with him. maybe it happened the way she described it , maybe she just wanted to have sex with him ..... who knows.


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

Dear brokenhearted2,

First of all, thank you so much for your input. It sounds as if you have been involved in a cross-cultural relationship before or have some reason to be very sensitive to males from patriarchal cultures. Any experience you'd like to share?

While I know what sort of warning you are giving and have researched all problems of international marriages and cross-cultural relationships (before marrying), I don't think that is the heart of the matter here.

My husband is not disrespectful towards women. He has never disrespected me and he has done just as much housework and cooking as me (probably more). He is very open-minded and is not some man who thinks men have the right to be awful to women. Not at all. 

Nor has his father cheated on his mother, to the best of his or my knowledge. He was horrified by the thought of me telling his mother (who I adore) what he did. She matters so much to him.

Don't worry. We will not have kids in the near future. He actually doesn't want kids (though I eventually do!). Only possibly five years down the road if everything is taken care, if trust is rebuilt, if I am 100% sure that the past will not be repeated. And I will do plenty of watching to protect myself. (He doesn't know about the keylogger downloaded.) 

The kid finding himself in candy land... Well that might be a fair characterization. In particular when you consider all the "candy" available for free on the internet. He never used a computer until we met. 

But the idea that he is disrespectful towards women or believes males have some right that women don't is not at all a fair attack on him. He's been a selfish jerk but I don't think it has to do with gender beliefs or customs.

Keep sending theories about your own relationship or mine this way! Thank you!


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

Thank you WhiteMouse and Shattered. 

One thing I must admit surprised me on TAM. I realized how many women also get involved in affairs. It's something I knew, but I guess I really believed men were much worse on this since "they are programmed" to want to "copulate" with as many women as possible.

I can honestly say, I have never had an urge to cheat. Emotionally or physically. Sure, I can see attractive men but I have no interest AT ALL in them. I honestly only love my husband and have no interest in anyone else! 

When I recently started questioning the meaning of love and the idea of soulmates, my initial attack on love and soulmates was that men are corrupt by nature. Maybe I was expecting too much. But that really isn't the case if I honestly look at all the threads here. So what makes the cheaters cheat! How can someone like me (good person) have NO tendency to cheat and yet my husband (also a good person) have so soon in our marriage destroyed what we had???


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## shattered32 (Nov 19, 2012)

You have asked a good question unfortunately i dont have an answer - the few people i have spoken to say the same thing -that i am a good guy , she is a good woman - why she went outside our marriage and i did , i dont know - being good people clearly is not enough and unfortunately for this experience , if i do move on , i will never be able to place trust on someone simply because they are 'good human beings'


Irrespective of if i stay with my wife or i dont , i dont think i will ever really believe that there was a 'larger' issue with us , i say this now maybe ill change my mind later , but as of now i will boil it down to the fact that it was perhaps nothing complicated - just her wanting to sleep with him



totallyunexpected said:


> Thank you WhiteMouse and Shattered.
> 
> One thing I must admit surprised me on TAM. I realized how many women also get involved in affairs. It's something I knew, but I guess I really believed men were much worse on this since "they are programmed" to want to "copulate" with as many women as possible.
> 
> ...


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

Can it be that simple? He/she just wanted it and pushed aside thoughts of consequences and did it? 

My mom used to always say that affairs happen because a relationship has problems. Whenever I heard of an affair, I always believed that the couple must have had severe problems that were not solved and that eventually one partner made a reprehensible decision but that it would never have happened if they were in a healthy relationship. 

The trouble is... we did have a healthy relationship, close friendship, and spent lots of time together! And yet. And yet, this horror has befallen me and now I see how a web of lies can be hanging in all the dark corners of the most beautifully decorated, most comfortable room in the house.

Oh the loss of innocence and of believing my Momma's words!


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## shattered32 (Nov 19, 2012)

Can it be simple - maybe , maybe not - she says its not like i wrote , that she felt disconnected with me and that made her lean towards someone else which ended up with her sleeping with him......

....but then i have questions , she slept with him twice that night , i keep asking her and myself - did you not even for a minute think of me once before you went back to him second time? either you did and you still went back , or you did not and went to him - neither of those are good to have in your mind.

her best friend tells me that there was a problem , and that sex was the end result of that problem festering , i have enough arguments on my side which currently neither my wife ,nor her best friend have really had a solid answer to which dismisses the thought of it being actually 'that simple enough'

i keep telling myself , or rather asking that no it could not have just been about sex.... but things just to add up as well as i would like them to...

.... but this is just me and my experience , it could well be the exception and not the rule.. we had everything that you mention having as well... where i come from , at my age most men would have only been married for about 2-3 years or would be thinking of getting married now , i have been with her for 7 years (not including the time we dated) we did not follow the norm because thats how deeply we were in love with each other , we could not wait to be with each other - when you have something that strong , you cannot but help question everything now..





totallyunexpected said:


> Can it be that simple? He/she just wanted it and pushed aside thoughts of consequences and did it?
> 
> My mom used to always say that affairs happen because a relationship has problems. Whenever I heard of an affair, I always believed that the couple must have had severe problems that were not solved and that eventually one partner made a reprehensible decision but that it would never have happened if they were in a healthy relationship.
> 
> ...


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

1. "Why" you cheated or were subject to a cheater

I was subjected to a cheater, my STBXW. The signs were all over the place even before we got married. I just refused to see them even after my friends and family tried to put them in front of me mildly. Sometimes we need a hard slap on our face to wake up and smell the s##t. Even now, I feel weak sometimes (I have already forgiven her) and want to be with her again. But I am not going to let my weakness destroy my wellbeing. I let my weakness rule over me before and the effect has been disastrous.

2. "Why" you believe my spouse cheated on me - all theories welcome! 

I think the cheaters are genetically coded to lie and cheat. They will invent reasons if there is none to cheat, lie, and deceive. They will inflate small disagreements into major fights and often initiate the fights themselves to suit and justify their selfish needs. All human beings are selfish, but many of us at least care for the people we love. The cheaters are genetically coded to love themselves and themselves only. All the cheaters I have seen in my life, no matter how many chances you give them, they never changed. I know there are a few reformed ones on this site, but they are rather exceptions and exceptions prove the rule. So, there's no point trying to figure out why your spouse cheated on you. He did what he had to do. But remember on thing, it was NOT your fault. It is never a BS's fault. There are many choices available in a marriage and cheating is not one of them.


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## brokenhearted2 (Aug 23, 2012)

"My husband is not disrespectful towards women. He has never disrespected me"
Your husband has lied, cheated, called an escort service, has had sexual conversations with women online, and you don't feel he has disrespected you? or at least the marriage? 
I don't know that I am sensitive to "males from patriarchal cultures..." I just think people - men and women should play fair. and be honest. If you know your spouse signed on for a marriage where there would be an assumption of faithfulness, then you honor that and if you can not, then divorce them. Double lives are such a rip off to the loyal spouse, such as yourself. I am sure you appreciate that he cooks and cleans the house and i'm sure he's very nice and doesn't drag you by the hair and act like Stanley Kowalski.("Streetcar Named Desire") But your question was, "why do spouses cheat?" I think your H is a cheater because he sees nothing wrong with it. His cultural background may or may not have anything to do with it. I don't know. I suppose you can be very nice and still cheat.
My own experience with cross cultural relationships? My Dad was a handsome, passionate Italian, who married my ice cold Irish Mother - but it was a match made in heaven! He was crazy about her, for the entire time they were married, my "crafty" Mother would hear his car pull up in the driveway, my sisters and I would watch her run to put on her lipstick and she'd race to the front door where we witnessed night after night the most passionate kissing and "reunion" after their long day apart. Even though it was clear my Mother was just as crazy about him, he never caught on fully. My Mother told us, Make sure you marry a Man who loves you just a little more than you love them, And my Dad told us, Don't marry an Italian! - they're all cheaters! And I think he meant any Man from a different culture - he had lived all over the world. Anyway, I do believe to some extent the culture you were raised in, plays a part on your feelings about infidelity.


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## brokenhearted2 (Aug 23, 2012)

"The trouble is... we did have a healthy relationship, close friendship, and spent lots of time together! And yet. And yet, this horror has befallen me and now I see how a web of lies can be hanging in all the dark corners of the most beautifully decorated, most comfortable room in the house."
That is beautifully written, and so, so sad. I am sorry for your heartache and yes, the worst part of betrayal - the loss of innocence. I wish you the best!


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

Lots of interesting discussion.

Life101 - Thanks for chiming in. There does seem some real genetic weakness or flaw in the people who cheat. I'm still trying to determine if they "are" cheaters or if they "cheat". That is, if it is inherent in their character. 

Brokenhearted2 - Thanks for explaining your background. You're right that culture is incredibly important, but even within a culture you can identify major differences of character along the spectrum. The bell curve is at work in any culture.

Here is an article written by a zoologist and psychiatrist on the matter: Find out why people have extramarital affairs on MedicineNet.com

They argue that monogamy is not natural - not that it is impossible or wrong - but simply that monogamous behavior is not the default. That means, like any learned ability, monogamy takes focus and skill. One of the researchers notes that we learn to do many unnatural things, like play the violin or type on a computer and that similarly we must learn and practice in order to be monogamous in long-term relationships. 

These two researches have come to the conclusion that people who really keep their promises in long-term monogamous relationships "tend to be very healthy mentally."


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## brokenhearted2 (Aug 23, 2012)

I must be in a downer mood today - bear with me.

Here's the reason I think cheating happens...
Stage One:
First - you fall madly in love. You're "soulmates", you have sex morning, noon and night, passion abounds. Life is great. The man believes it will be this way forever.

Stage Two:
The children come along, they bring great joy, but slowly, ( and I am guilty of this...) They become the focus of your marriage - your world. Wife goes from black nighties to a tee shirt and pajama bottoms and is too tired. "Wife" becomes "Mother"
Man wonders, "What happened...?"
Wife puts on weight (guilty again!) Hangs around the school yard and sees all the other Mother's have out on weight too. So what? There are Cheerios everywhere! Including the bed.

Stage Three:
Well - stage three can be any scenario - Cute office girl gets friendly at work, ex finds him on FB, someone else tells him how handsome he is and how smart and strong and intelligent and etc... and wife is at home trying to wrestle sick child into an oatmeal bath to cure the hives gotten from eating too many tomatoes... Wife id STILL in same T shirt from previous night due to no sleep and worry over sick child...

Get it?

Sorry - I was that wife, I hope I don't get too much flack from my sisters out there, but the truth is, I came to love my children more than my Husband and I really didnt mind when he went off to play "golf."


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## shattered32 (Nov 19, 2012)

i can vouch for that fact that you do not need children to have your partner cheat on you. i dont , i still got cheated on.


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

I did not become a mother. I did not get "fat" and "ugly". Really nothing changed. Maybe I became boring because I remained the same me that he met three years ago. Perhaps becoming a mother or getting fat and having cheerios in the bed play a slight role, but I doubt those are the chief reason for an affair. I could be wrong.


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## shattered32 (Nov 19, 2012)

You fall in love with a person for whom they are, i fail to see why 3 or 30 years later that same person could be boring... if so maybe you fell in love with the wrong person to begin with.

me and my wife were planning to have kids next year, sure she might have become fat or ugly as you put it, would that have made me go out of our marriage , no , it would have given me another reason to be close to her.




totallyunexpected said:


> I did not become a mother. I did not get "fat" and "ugly". Really nothing changed. Maybe I became boring because I remained the same me that he met three years ago. Perhaps becoming a mother or getting fat and having cheerios in the bed play a slight role, but I doubt those are the chief reason for an affair. I could be wrong.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Why do cheaters cheat? They are selfish, weak and cowardly. Also they usually become incredibly stupid.

Selfish - they focus on what they want, to the exclusion of all else.

Weak - even if and when they realize that they are doing wrong they do not stop themselves.

Cowardly - If the home situation is not meeting their needs, they can choose to work on changing the situation, or leave, but they choose to start ignoring the home situation and engage in a new fantasy realationship. To fix or leave the old relationship is hard, and involves meeting challenges. A new relationship unfettered by daily reality is easy.

Stupid - the cost benefit analysis goes out the window, history gets rewritten, rationalizations are put in place, The fact that no situation can be improved by infidelity is completely ignored.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Cheaters cheat because they CAN! It is not rocket science. You do not need a lot of psychobabble. A woman can get a lot of men to have sex with her because she is a woman and men want to have sex.A man can have sex with a smaller number of women because women can pick who she wants to have sex with.


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## brokenhearted2 (Aug 23, 2012)

DavidWYoung said:


> Cheaters cheat because they CAN! It is not rocket science. You do not need a lot of psychobabble. A woman can get a lot of men to have sex with her because she is a woman and men want to have sex.A man can have sex with a smaller number of women because women can pick who she wants to have sex with.


The posters question was, why does a person cheat? There are many answers to that question. The bigger question is, if you are in a seemingly happy marriage, spend time together, laugh, emotionally connect, have great sex, and a family... In other words, all the components for a happy union...Why would one spouse risk it all for a fling? Someone answered on another post, "poor boundaries." I really don't know why... If all those pieces are in place. My first H cheated for the reasons I stated above. I take 50% responsibility for it. I stopped treating him like a husband. We are still friends and he spent thanksgiving here with me and our children and my current H. I overheard him tell my sister that he regrets everything and wished it could have turned out differently. He never remarried and his AP and he didn't stay together after he and I split. There was no going back for me when I found out he had a PA. I found out and calmly told him to call a lawyer.

My current H, whom I shared everything with, who brought me more happiness than I could have ever imagined, who is kind, soulful, funny, irreverent, smart, sweet (and fell in love with me when I was still plump) made me walk on air, made me alive again, was a fantastic step dad to my kids ...made me feel young! Brought me back to my fighting weight-124 lbs! And worshipped me - had "poor boundaries"... And had an EA with an old friend who found him on FB. So- I have no answers and should clearly not be giving advice! Who knows why anyone does anything in this crazy world? Stay sane and try to be good to one another and God help us all .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

Why?

From what I can gather, my ex-finance felt like we lacked an emotional, passionate, transcendentally-fated connection and shouldn't have been getting married. In her mind that was the 'why' and while I contemplated R, I never pushed much further.

Now, having parted ways with her, I ponder the obvious questions like a) how is being someone’s f*ck-toy forming an emotional connection on par with the stuff of marriage? And b) if it was really that bad, well, why was she with me for over half a decade and why did she want to get married.

At the end of the day, her real ‘why’ is her unrealistic view of mature love, need for drama and, perhaps, a willingness to blame alcohol (or, that outside forces control her life). Instead she buys into all that fantastical pap that Mrs. Mathias droned on about in her asinine thread. But unlike a professional like Mrs. Mathias, my xWF wasn’t the world’s most passionate woman by a long shot. Nor was she physically capable for what I imagine “transformative” sex to look like.

I didn’t care, though. I loved her and I’m a realist. I don’t really expect the love in my life to be the sort of thing a stranger would celebrate after I die.

So, a recently divorced, horny former co-worker came along and blew smoke up her ass about all the emotional, passionate, transcendentally-fated connection that marriage requires. She became his wet, willing hole after that. Problem is, she’s so stupid that she thought that this guy (who had already failed his own marriage) actually believed in the jive he sold her.

D-Day happens, I kick her out and d*uche-nozzle OM expectedly gives her the fade. I contemplate R and we hysterically bond for a couple of weeks. It was nice, but I now felt like I was cheating… cheating on my integrity. One night we were out for dinner and she starts gushing about fate and how she felt we were truly meant to be and she was so sorry that it took the affair for her to understand that I was her soul mate. I’m telling you, she believed every word that she said.

That was it, I concluded. She was perma-fogged and, for the time being, I was the center of that fog again. Time to move on.

I knew a lot more about her wayward ways than I ever let her know I knew. I was not going to spend the rest of my life perpetuating a fantasy a woman like that... a woman who knowing betrayed, didn't fess up to everything me and refuses to accept that her beliefs are bull****.

She was a unique kind of nuts. But not so uniquely nuts that I feel like I will never have to worry about this coming up again or that others can't relate to this 'why.' I guess that's why I'm still here.


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## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to threadjack with my own experience. I basically read the title and went about answering the question. And btw, ultimately *why* in my story was *unrealistic expectations*.


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

Labcoat said:


> I'm sorry, I didn't mean to threadjack with my own experience. I basically read the title and went about answering the question. And btw, ultimately *why* in my story was *unrealistic expectations*.


I agree completely. Often the cheating spouse feels that they are not getting what they _deserve _ from a relationship and start looking for greener pastures instead of trying to save the marriage. This kind of unrealistic demand results in disaster in most of the cases and once the fog gets lifted the reality hits hard.


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

Well it has only been a week now since finding out about the phone calls to an escort and random girls. Every day, I swing from detachment from the experience to momentary distraction from my situation to a breakdown and endless tears. Right now, I am thankful that each time the tears roll endlessly, my WH has been very supportive and it always becomes an opportunity for re-hashing the nightmare. And rehashing it needs to be done. Each time you realize, or feel the force of, a new facet of the betrayal you need to grieve again.

During our talk yesterday afternoon, I returned us to the "why" which I am desperately trying to understand. He told me, "If you want me to be completely honest, I think part of it is that I always am searching for different experiences." In short, he in other words said that our relationship is healthy but that he was just wanted to experience something different (on the side). That may explain motivation but it doesn't explain the lack of conscience consideration for my feelings, the state of our marriage, or the consequences such actions would bring. 

I'm not sure that I added much to this thread - perhaps I just don't want it to end because it is helping me.

And Labcoat - thanks for joining the thread (which you did _not_ hijack ). I have to say I love your avatar. So cute, funny, and terribly sad at the same time.


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

After each emotional outbreak and loss of control, a necessary discourse takes place and I find more aspects of the situation to unpack.

During today's episode my husband got really upset as I pushed him for more particulars on what was going on in his head when he first contacted the escort and strip dancer girl. I kept pushing him to see if he had any conscience, if any internal discord when he made his choices. 

It looks like there was no fight between the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other. He says that he did not think of me and that he didn't debate wandering outside of marriage. He basically admitted that he had no conscience, not even a moment of "I shouldn't be doing this but..."  This is very hard for me to fathom, as I always have an internal debate when confronted with both minor and significant moral choices.

He is experiencing significant remorse now. He's doing everything that he can as far as talking about it and comforting me goes. Though he got upset and started unleashing hate on himself (and even started hitting his head on the wall repeatedly). 

Somehow we transitioned into calmer talk and went from each wanting to hurt ourselves to holding each other. This end result gives me strength to rehash more aspects of the situation and to continually seek a more thorough understanding. (In high school, I remember thinking how wise Einstein was for saying, "The key to achieving peace is understanding." I'm trying to apply that to this nightmare.)

I am now, in a much calmer state reflecting on the condition of my husband's conscience. He feels guilty when the dog is next to him as we eat and likes to share his food with her. Or if we are eating dessert and I finish first he always wants to share some of his as he feels guilty eating while someone watches with none to eat. 

He is an ethical person, but I don't know how he arrives at his ethics. I mean, I need to press him more to understand if and when he has an inner battle with the "devil" and "angel" sides of him. Is it normal for someone to cheat and not even think of their spouse while making such a decision. He said he honestly didn't think of me at all. It just never crossed his mind. There was no cost-benefit analysis and there was no deliberation. What do I make of this? 

Thanks to everyone in advance who shares their thoughts and ideas.


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## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

life101 said:


> I agree completely. Often the cheating spouse feels that they are not getting what they _deserve _ from a relationship and start looking for greener pastures instead of trying to save the marriage. This kind of unrealistic demand results in disaster in most of the cases and once the fog gets lifted the reality hits hard.


Thanks... It'll be a LONG time before that fog lifts. To her credit, she did try to save the relationship... By demanding that I change while she did nothing to change herself. I do hope that she one day realizes that, if she so deeply desires the ideal relationship, she had better become the ideal woman... She won't and other men will use her before she wakes up.

For my part: point taken. I could have been a much better boyfriend and fiancé. i'm not striving for "the ideal" but I am working to make myself better in every way. But since she betrayed me, well, another woman will be reaping the benefits of those improvements. Not her.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

totallyunexpected said:


> After each emotional outbreak and loss of control, a necessary discourse takes place and I find more aspects of the situation to unpack.
> 
> During today's episode my husband got really upset as I pushed him for more particulars on what was going on in his head when he first contacted the escort and strip dancer girl. I kept pushing him to see if he had any conscience, if any internal discord when he made his choices.
> 
> ...


Could be cognitive dissonance in action. He never wanted to view himself or his choices as inherently bad, so better just to block out the entire line of inquiry. That is even easier that rewriting history and rationalizing. Again selfish, cowardly, and stupid.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Oh, and getting through the betrayal is like peeling off layers of an onion. Seems like you think about it, figure out an aspect, do your best to deal with it, then think on it somemore, and another layer reveals itself, and you start again.


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## Foghorn (Sep 10, 2012)

totallyunexpected said:


> He is an ethical person, but I don't know how he arrives at his ethics. I mean, I need to press him more to understand if and when he has an inner battle with the "devil" and "angel" sides of him. Is it normal for someone to cheat and not even think of their spouse while making such a decision. _He said he honestly didn't think of me at all. It just never crossed his mind_. There was no cost-benefit analysis and there was no deliberation. What do I make of this?


Yeah, unfortunately, compartmentalization is very common.

I don't know which culture you are from, but in some non-USA cultures, it is perfectly acceptable (even expected) to have a wife who stays home (or works), provides stability, eventually has children, while the husband is free to spice it up with any philandering he sees fit to engage in.

It sounds like your wandering-eyed hubby might be one of those. One of the earlier posters said it well - in this culture, he's overwhelmed by his breadth of choices. You used to be "exotic" to him, a completely different kind of woman. Now, there are women "like you" all around, and he doesn't see why he shouldn't sample a few more chocolates from the candy box.

Is he an ethical man? You might not know him as well as you think.

Be on the lookout for STDs, and I am sorry you are here. I understand it all too well.

-FH


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

i cheated because:

i was selfish 
affirmation (feeding insecurity)
entitlement
lack of self-respect
lack of respect for my wife and my marriage

i was cheated on because:
i cheated (hahah, yes this actually was one of the reasons i was given, early on)
she was selfish
entitlement
affirmation
lack of self respect
lack of respect for her husband and her marriage

see?
its the same for all cheaters.
there is no "why".
except that they/we are selfish children with no boundaries, and little respect for anyone. including themselves/ourselves.
it sucks.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Strictly cake eating!!! Was meaningless, something to do, added some spice, but they meant absolutely nothing. No emotional attachment just a ONS's.

As someone else said it was nothing my GF at the time did or didn't do. It was like going to see a movie 100% compartmentalized just something new like a different burger joint. Not better and usually worse, but always different. 

This was all pre marriage, but every time I cheated it was always because of the above reasons. Wanting to experience something different and thinking I could get away with it, always no emotions, just physcial and always ONS. Usually woman with different looks goth, clean cut, different ethnicities etc.


There was a battle often I would think about my premeditated actions for weeks leading up to a event. It was never as good as what was at home because there was no emotion or communication......but I still did it anyway and felt awfully guilty for weeks/months until I would do it again.

Finally stopped 15 years ago


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

OhGeesh said:


> Strictly cake eating!!! Was meaningless, something to do, added some spice, but they meant absolutely nothing. No emotional attachment just a ONS's.
> 
> As someone else said it was nothing my GF at the time did or didn't do. It was like going to see a movie 100% compartmentalized just something new like a different burger joint. Not better and usually worse, but always different.
> 
> ...


yep. this is how i was.


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