# "Right out of the cheaters book!"



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

we see that a lot in the comments to various threads. and the op's posting here find patterns in their spouses behavior that repeat broadly across all peoples. Does not matter if you are black, white, orange, region of the world you come from....similar patterns.

"looking back, the sex stopped right around when their affair began"
"looking back, the sex went thru the roof when their ea started"
"Spouse said they need space/feeling smothered/need time alone"
" the seven year itch"
"in the fog of the affair"
"I love you, but am not in love with you"

and on and on.

Obviously there is not a "Cheating for Dummies" book they all buy. how is it the patterns are so similar?

i was wondering if it might be an ingrained response for the species. Something developed tens of thousands of years ago, and passed down in our genes. Something that society has attempted to control (thru marriage, religion, social shaming, laws), but has never been effective in stamping it out.

it would explain a lot. would give the partner who was cheated on some solace that their wayward spouse did not necessarily plan this all in an evil way, but it was a relatively unstoppable instinct they were following.

knowing the reason people cheat might help to prevent it in a specific marriage.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I don’t believe it is a ingrained response. It is really the only excuses someone can use to get the space that they need to carry on an affair.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

ABHale said:


> I don’t believe it is a ingrained response. It is really the only excuses someone can use to get the space that they need to carry on an affair.


but my point is...WHY are all the cheaters following the same book in how they play out the affair? If it is not in their genes, why do they all do exactly the same thing?


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> but my point is...WHY are all the cheaters following the same book in how they play out the affair? If it is not in their genes, why do they all do exactly the same thing?


The commonality to these lies and observations is that they are straight forward and simple. Much like commonalities and technologies between ancient cultures separated by great distances and oceans. If one person can make the intuitive leap others can as well.

Take the few example below and my translation of the statements. Does your interpretation differ from my own?

"looking back, the sex stopped right around when their affair began" Wayward is getting plenty of action with AP and doesnt want to cheat on AP so loyal spouse is cut off.

"looking back, the sex went thru the roof when their ea started" Wayward is not getting enough action with AP so uses loyal spouse and fantasizes about AP while they are with their spouse. Loyal spouse also used as practice so they can better please AP.

"Spouse said they need space/feeling smothered/need time alone" Wayward wants the freedom to indulge without having to look over their shoulder.

"I love you, but am not in love with you" Cheaters don't operate without a safety net / back up. They don't love you but don't want you to move on so they feed this BS.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Self preservation looks the same no matter who wears it.


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## DallasCowboyFan (Nov 20, 2012)

It's the most obvious way to manipulate. Most of these cheaters want to have both the affair partner and the spouse. They seem to say things that makes the spouse feel inadequate and as if they have failed so they work harder.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

There are exceptions to every rule so, while lots of affair behavior can be common, it is not cut and dried.

Several years ago my friend's wife had an on-going physical affair for almost a year. Sex between them did not decrease. In fact she did all she could to keep him happy at home while she was meeting OM at least twice a week while on "errands". He never suspected a thing until OM's wife caught them and told him what was going on. In an effort to reconcile, his wife even told him in detail how she consciously mapped out a plan to keep him in the dark through regular sex at home and taking care of the house.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> knowing the reason people cheat might help to prevent it in a specific marriage.


You mentioned the old controls of marriage, religion, and shame. All of those are much weaker if not absent today. Add to that more perceived options because of dating apps and social media and you get a mess. Not to mention the eat-pray-love divorce porn that's commonplace now.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Talker67 said:


> but my point is...WHY are all the cheaters following the same book in how they play out the affair? If it is not in their genes, why do they all do exactly the same thing?


Because there isn’t that many excuses someone can use to make time for cheating. 

There isn’t any other reason to give for distance developing in a relationship if someone is cheating. 

Everyone uses the same excuse because that is all there is. 

Even if they admit to the affair, they use the same reasons for it happening.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Don't forget the classic cheater 101 move:

re-write the marital history and blame the faithful spouse for pushing the wayward into the arms of the AP

I think this stems from them trying to internally justify their behavior. This probably is closely related to the wayward accusing the betrayed of cheating....


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Talker67 said:


> but my point is...WHY are all the cheaters following the same book in how they play out the affair? If it is not in their genes, why do they all do exactly the same thing?


Everyone has heard these excuses and phrases in movies, TV shows, life, and online, so they've become pretty standard, IMO. The things they do are also cultural/societal, because how else do you respond to something you know is wrong? You hide and deny to protect yourself. As for the desire and motivations to cheat, that is pretty universal, and usually a response to a real or perceived lack in the relationship.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Talker67 said:


> but my point is...WHY are all the cheaters following the same book in how they play out the affair? If it is not in their genes, why do they all do exactly the same thing?


You're mistaken they don't all do the exact same thing at all.



Talker67 said:


> "looking back, the sex stopped right around when their affair began"


The sex didn't stop, until I told my ex-wife I was done with her.



> "looking back, the sex went thru the roof when their ea started"


The sex was always extremely frequent throughout my sexual relationship with my ex wife, from the evening we first met.



> "Spouse said they need space/feeling smothered/need time alone"


My ex-wife never said anything like that.



> " the seven year itch"


My ex wife and I didn't last seven years together.



> "in the fog of the affair"


Hmmm she came to me and guiltily confessed her cheating on me not long after the event (I wouldn't have known otherwise), offering all kinds of prostration and penance in asking to be forgiven.

No fog.



> "I love you, but am not in love with you"


My ex-wife has never said those words to me at any point either.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

ABHale said:


> Because there isn’t that many excuses someone can use to make time for cheating.
> 
> There isn’t any other reason to give for distance developing in a relationship if someone is cheating.
> 
> ...


This. There are only so many ways to skin a cat and humans are far less complex than we would like to believe.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Personal said:


> You're mistaken they don't all do the exact same thing at all.


Sure they do. They do it because they wanted to. The excuses are just a way to throw the dogs off the scent, and once in a while you'll get a straight up confession.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Talker67 said:


> but my point is...WHY are all the cheaters following the same book in how they play out the affair? If it is not in their genes, why do they all do exactly the same thing?


you see the same with personality disorders. The things they say follow a script. Maybe human programming?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

There are websites that are designed to help cheaters keep their spouses in the dark. 

They swap techniques on how to hide their affairs.

There was one that the owner closed down when he realised what a cesspit his site was. He even came to TAM to apologise for running his site.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> There are websites that are designed to help cheaters keep their spouses in the dark.
> 
> They swap techniques on how to hide their affairs.
> 
> There was one that the owner closed down when he realised what a cesspit his site was. He even came to TAM to apologise for running his site.


i suppose you WOULD use the internet to get ideas if you were doing gangster stuff.

just more reason for someone who is suspicious to check the browser history!


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

aine said:


> you see the same with personality disorders. The things they say follow a script. Maybe human programming?


that might be a genetic thing too....
your genes are predisposed to you assuming you are Napoleon if you go batshit crazy.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Benbutton said:


> This. There are only so many ways to skin a cat and humans are far less complex than we would like to believe.


humans certainly are not as "advanced" as we all think we are


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## Chaotic (Jul 6, 2013)

A couple of these phrases ("I need space/feel smothered/need time alone" and "I love you but I'm not in love with you") are ALSO common in situations where there's no cheating but one partner is trying to step back from the relationship for other reasons. When my marriage was falling apart, I used those lines on my ex, too. I wasn't cheating, and neither was he. We had a completely different set of problems (abuse, control, mental illness, etc). But those phrases were still what I used in order to try to step backward from the marriage.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Chaotic said:


> A couple of these phrases ("I need space/feel smothered/need time alone" and "I love you but I'm not in love with you") are ALSO common in situations where there's no cheating but one partner is trying to step back from the relationship for other reasons. When my marriage was falling apart, I used those lines on my ex, too. I wasn't cheating, and neither was he. We had a completely different set of problems (abuse, control, mental illness, etc). But those phrases were still what I used in order to try to step backward from the marriage.


It can happen a lot, where somebody has been used up and needs to recharge.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Talker67 said:


> but my point is...WHY are all the cheaters following the same book in how they play out the affair? If it is not in their genes, why do they all do exactly the same thing?


It's no more a "book" for cheaters, as there is a love book for new relationships (that all follow the same emotional pattern), or a drug user book for how people act when they are using drugs, etc.

It's not about the cheating, I don't think...it's about the nature of what they are doing - lying, hiding, feeling guilty, feeling addicted to the excitement, etc...those things are what is universal with cheaters, and how people respond to those feelings is also universal, even if there is no cheating driving the lying or hiding or guilt, etc.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

cheaters all show the same level of cognitive dissonance, hence why their words are almost the same. 

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

TDSC60 said:


> There are exceptions to every rule so, while lots of affair behavior can be common, it is not cut and dried.
> 
> Several years ago my friend's wife had an on-going physical affair for almost a year. Sex between them did not decrease. In fact she did all she could to keep him happy at home while she was meeting OM at least twice a week while on "errands". He never suspected a thing until OM's wife caught them and told him what was going on. In an effort to reconcile, his wife even told him in detail how she consciously mapped out a plan to keep him in the dark through regular sex at home and taking care of the house.


You mean friend's ex-wife?



Talker67 said:


> we see that a lot in the comments to various threads. and the op's posting here find patterns in their spouses behavior that repeat broadly across all peoples. Does not matter if you are black, white, orange, region of the world you come from....similar patterns.
> 
> "looking back, the sex stopped right around when their affair began"
> "looking back, the sex went thru the roof when their ea started"
> ...


Human behavior is unbelievably predictable.


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## Solow (12 mo ago)

Personally I would prefer to be shot at or stabbed than cheated on.
Atleast you know it's coming...
The betrayal, anguish, frustration. I would prefer physical pain any day of the week over mental torture.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> humans certainly are not as "advanced" as we all think we are


Humans have not evolved, really, over the past 10,000 years. Only our technology has advanced. But if you look at the way humans continue to conduct themselves, we are still the same greedy, selfish, hedonistic, violent creatures we were back in Roman times.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

It definitely is evolutionary. Read Sex at Dawn. Look up hypergamy and monkey branching.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Chaotic said:


> A couple of these phrases ("I need space/feel smothered/need time alone" and "I love you but I'm not in love with you") are ALSO common in situations where there's no cheating but one partner is trying to step back from the relationship for other reasons. When my marriage was falling apart, I used those lines on my ex, too. I wasn't cheating, and neither was he. We had a completely different set of problems (abuse, control, mental illness, etc). But those phrases were still what I used in order to try to step backward from the marriage.


These phrases almost always mean the marriage is done regardless of cheating.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

If it's not broke, don't fix it. Those lies about cheating have always worked and are working now. Why bother to come up with something new if the old lines still work?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

I have to SMH when I see an obvious betrayed spouse accepting blame shifting 
*
Blame-shifting* is when a person does something wrong or inappropriate, and then dumps the blame on someone else to avoid taking responsibility for their own behavior.

They come on here head hung low. 
I didn’t iron my husband’s underwear and pushed him away.
Or I left the commode seat up and hurt my wife deeply.

IMO many do that thinking if it’s my fault I can fix it. Without putting any common sense or thought into it.

They also tend to grasp at straws, jump into married counselors, etc.

Some get it quick, some linger.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Marc878 said:


> I have to SMH when I see an obvious betrayed spouse accepting blame shifting
> 
> *Blame-shifting* is when a person does something wrong or inappropriate, and then dumps the blame on someone else to avoid taking responsibility for their own behavior.
> 
> ...


What is the alternative?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

LisaDiane said:


> What is the alternative?


Get strong, stay there, drop the hopium pipe and move on. You are the only one that can keep yourself in limbo.

Much easier said than done.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Marc878 said:


> Get strong, stay there, drop the hopium pipe and move on. You are the only one that can keep yourself in limbo.
> 
> Much easier said than done.


Can confirm!!!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Marc878 said:


> Get strong, stay there, drop the hopium pipe and move on. You are the only one that can keep yourself in limbo.
> 
> Much easier said than done.


How can someone handle blame shifting if they are trying to reconcile?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

LisaDiane said:


> How can someone handle blame shifting if they are trying to reconcile?


There is no such thing as reconciliation if blame shifting is going on.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Marc878 said:


> There is no such thing as reconciliation if blame shifting is going on.


I agree...although I believe many people try to accept the unacceptable.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> I agree...although I believe many people try to accept the unacceptable.


Or those people (my XW) who try to justify the unjustifiable


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Numb26 said:


> Or those people (my XW) who try to justify the unjustifiable


Right, and she had to because you would NOT accept the unacceptable from her.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> Right, and she had to because you would NOT accept the unacceptable from her.


Still won't


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

LisaDiane said:


> I agree...although I believe many people try to accept the unacceptable.


All the time. I managed up to 750 people over multiple departments. Most people will do everything possible to avoid making a decision.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Marc878 said:


> All the time. I managed up to 750 people over multiple departments. Most people will everything possible to avoid making a decision.


I think it's human nature to stay with what you KNOW, even if it's hurting you or costing you.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> I think it's human nature to stay with what you KNOW, even if it's hurting you or costing you.


Too some people change is to scary


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

LisaDiane said:


> I think it's human nature to stay with what you KNOW, even if it's hurting you or costing you.


Yep. No doubt.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Indecision is a cheaters best friend and the betrayed’s worst enemy.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Marc878 said:


> Yep. No doubt.


I would rather hope and trust in something NEW, than to try and manufacture hope and trust in something that was never real.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

LisaDiane said:


> I would rather hope and trust in something NEW, than to try and manufacture hope and trust in something that was never real.


A lot try and justify their actions. The devil you know versus the one you don’t thing.
Fear is an immobilizer. So any excuse will do.


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## JWakk (Sep 14, 2020)

Talker67 said:


> we see that a lot in the comments to various threads. and the op's posting here find patterns in their spouses behavior that repeat broadly across all peoples. Does not matter if you are black, white, orange, region of the world you come from....similar patterns.
> 
> "looking back, the sex stopped right around when their affair began"
> "looking back, the sex went thru the roof when their ea started"
> ...


The trouble here Matt is after some of what I have actually found out through stories and have actually said in one of my comments women and I say women here because it is those I have research mostly.
Quite a number of them either don't understand why they cheated even when in there words their marriage was perfect they just became friends with someone who obviously was using seduction and it went from there they all say they just turned a blind eye to the fact they had a husband and family during the cheating and the longer they got away with it the more ingrained they became in it.
I know there are many other reasons they will tell us from wanting to feel young again or play the field as they never had much sex before they married then there are the ones who are blatant outright none stop cheaters.
One woman I read about used to F" the football team after every game they played when her husband left for home after the game and she ended up getting more than the team as there mates joined in as well.

She managed to keep her husband blind to it all for about 5 years I think it was and it all started as a joke as she said if they won the match they were playing she might give them a nice present.
These women are total psychos in every way shape and form and only use a man for his resources and these are not isolated cases there are many of them. I could go on for ever here with instances but it just makes me realise women are far better manipulators than the normal every day man.

Yes the Alphas the top 10% who have the choices because they were either born into there riches or got there in other ways are manipulators because they can pick and choose and they do screw women over but the women know this and still go for them. But 90% of guys are good men.
Women today in the west at least are just mostly after resources from men and will pick a beta male so she can manipulate him but go out with the Alphas to get the dirty needs met.
The Red Pill movement is the best thing that has happened to men but more Betas need to wake up and stop the safe a hoe movement.
Yes there are good women out there but they are getting fewer and fewer by the day and getting harder to find.


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## JWakk (Sep 14, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> It can happen a lot, where somebody has been used up and needs to recharge.


Usually those you say above are the first signs they want space to cheat with some one they already have lined up. For me if my woman asked for space like that I would say ok lets get divorced and you can have the space to screw around all you want then. Of course depending on how she actually said it as yes could be genuine but you don't sort problems out apart.

After what I went through way back when my moto is trust but verify always as I don't enjoy the feeling of my heart being ripped out of my chest.
So even though I love my wife of now I would walk away in the bat of an eye if she started any of that crap and she knows it and so far all is well.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

JWakk said:


> The trouble here Matt is after some of what I have actually found out through stories and have actually said in one of my comments women and I say women here because it is those I have research mostly.
> Quite a number of them either don't understand why they cheated even when in there words their marriage was perfect they just became friends with someone who obviously was using seduction and it went from there they all say they just turned a blind eye to the fact they had a husband and family during the cheating and the longer they got away with it the more ingrained they became in it.
> I know there are many other reasons they will tell us from wanting to feel young again or play the field as they never had much sex before they married then there are the ones who are blatant outright none stop cheaters.
> One woman I read about used to F" the football team after every game they played when her husband left for home after the game and she ended up getting more than the team as there mates joined in as well.
> ...


this is why, earlier in this thread, i questioned if it was some genetic thing, that we have ingrainded in our behaviour from 20,000 years ago.

why does a person cheat sexually?
i think they just get super horny, and that overrides any sort of reasoned logical thought.
i think it is even worst than just being horny...i think in some way being monogaomus for many years builds up a pent up subconscious need to do something really taboo...people are drawn to do the kinkiest and most deviant things possible. such as your example of doing the entire football team. that is being the worst type of **** imaginable...which only heightens the orgasms the woman got.

How is it SOME WOMEN can resist this primal urge to cheat sexually, but others take ONE little alcoholic drink and an hour later are giving their coworker a BJ in a hotel room?


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## JWakk (Sep 14, 2020)

Talker67 said:


> this is why, earlier in this thread, i questioned if it was some genetic thing, that we have ingrainded in our behaviour from 20,000 years ago.
> 
> why does a people cheat sexually?
> i think they just get super horny, and that overrides any sort of reasoned logical thought.
> ...


Well the Alcoholic drink is just an excuse to let loose when they are thinking about it anyway. But you have a point about the genetics of it all. But also the fem groups have caused a lot of trouble because they are convincing women they can do what they want married or not and know one should have a say.
When married whether a person likes it or not they are responsible to their partner and family for there actions but it is being driven into them that they can act single and stuff what the partner thinks.

What a woman does as a single person is her own business but when married it's is her partners business as well, They even promote privacy with phones and other tech, Sorry but in marriage there is know privacy if I want my wife's phone I will ask for it and demand it if she adamantly refuses and any time she can have mine.
Any woman hiding or refusing her phone is already stepping out of the marriage and I would act swiftly and harshly.
In fact if she was texting a lot the first thing I would say is ok who is he and whats going on if she denied it was a guy I would and have said I will know within a week and if your lying the door will be hitting your butt on the way out you want to play with others they can have you I won't play second fiddle to anyone.
Believe me this works far better than any whining on Redit or sites like this You take control of the situation and let them know Gaslighting isn't going to work. You will usually see by her face if your right or not.

Yes I admit the first time Over 50 years ago I was just a dumb as some of these men are now and I was really taken for a ride but thanks to all the studies and learning about relationships and particularly women I now spot Red Flags even with the way they word what they say don't need to meet them.
Believe me with the info that is out there and the stories from sites plus lawyers you get very good at spotting players.
You see in the beginning it starts off just friendly chit chat with co-workers but anyone who knows guy's knows if they are chatting up a married woman they are not just after friendship, This happened with my wife of now and I did what I said above and told her yes just friends until they're not and I said don't listen to your female friends telling you it's alright I won't find out because I will and the divorce will be instantaneous know explanation needed.

I also added it would be a relief to have my freedom from all the crap I have put up with for the last 20 years so lets see how long after I'm gone your "Friend" will last. I wish I had a camera at the time to catch the way her jaw dropped to her chest. That put a stop to that and she told her friend to go "F" themselves and has been good in our marriage since.

One thing that keeps a woman more than anything is letting her know you love her but will upgrade for a better model if she steps out on you without the slightest hesitation. Yes it hurts but never let them see that and just move on no contact whatsoever, Women for the most part thrive on Drama thats why they hurt men when they cheat and give them trickle truth only to keep the Drama going but if you just move on know drama not wanting to know what she did because the fact she did it is enough you tear there heart out because they never get closure for themselves. They couldn't care less how they hurt you it's all about them. That's why MC is a waste of time unless they truly are remorseful but even then I would say to her you should have been doing this before you cheated not using it to get back into my good graces.

This works 100% 100% of the time with every cheater. This is why the RED PILL forums are so important to wake men up from the simp sleep they are in. Not everything is right in the RED PILL forums you still have to sort out what works best for you but the above that I said does work 100% as you take the Bull by the horns so to speak before thing go too far to be stopped and if she doesn't stop time to move on anyway.

Problem most men have is they refuse to believe that their wife would ever do that as she has been so happy sorry I want to vomit as thats the surest sign of all of a good cheater, yes the man was happy but he wasn't paying attention to the hints that his wife wasn't, things like boredom setting in just in small ways talking about the knew co-worker she doesn't like Biggest "RED FLAG" of all especially when suddenly she stops talking about that person and being more protective of her phone, that is the sign to start demanding her phone not politely asking " I want to see your phone" if she refuses give her know choice as your walking out the door. She either shows it or your gone Kids or know Kids,

Simps can't do this they love their wife too much " poor fools" she will take advantage of that straight away as women are the best manipulators out even when they blame a guy they put themselves in the situation in the first place to give him the chance to come on to them but they don't want to suffer the consequences.

That's why I don't want to know reasons because they are only lies anyway. It's better to move on not knowing as less nightmares to suffer.

I know men cheat too but as I am a man it's learning to protect from female cheaters that is my goal but I certainly don't condone men cheating on good wives either and it's strange how good women get hitched to the men cheaters. If we could put all the cheater together the world would be such a better place as we watched them tear each other to pieces.

Honestly I could write a novel about all this and maybe I should. But better stop now.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

there are some things that men and women cheaters both do.

but there are some things that are very differentiated by the persons sex.
One example, a lot of women seem primed to allow themselves to "be seduced" by a player....maybe as a way to kind of say "i was seduced, tricked, that is not really me cheating!". i do not see men being seduced that way, sure a woman can turn them on, but they do not use that as a crutch to explain why it happened.


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## JWakk (Sep 14, 2020)

Talker67 said:


> there are some things that men and women cheaters both do.
> 
> but there are some things that are very differentiated by the persons sex.
> One example, a lot of women seem primed to allow themselves to "be seduced" by a player....maybe as a way to kind of say "i was seduced, tricked, that is not really me cheating!". i do not see men being seduced that way, sure a woman can turn them on, but they do not use that as a crutch to explain why it happened.


Yes your spot on here women put themselves in the position to give the man the opportunity to come on to them, I experienced this first hand a number of years ago it basically gives them a pass to cheat and hopefully not get blamed. But for me now cheating is cheating there's know coming back from it. You have to realise they do it once it opens the door to do it again. 

If you let it go the first time they will try it again because they think you will forgive them again.
If it is something your both agreed on even though I'm not into that stuff well that is different but the truth is once you go down that road the relationship isn't the pure relationship you had with that person it's tainted and can never be what it was. Ok some would say then have a knew different relationship ( Jordon Peterson ) did a piece on this very topic but there is always the issue can I ever trust that person again.

For me personally the answer would be "NO" but I am a very unforgiving person anyway and it would take me half a life time to get over what happened anyway. The more you love someone the harder it is to get over the loss of them even when they rip your heart out and that is why I will never love anyone ever again totally.
I always have that suspicion they could just stab me in the back at the first opportunity that suits them.
Like I stated TRUST BUT VERIFY" Thats why in a lot of women's cases they never totally love a man he is just a means to an end not all of course but most these days. 

There has been street interviews with women about this and most if not all and that is hundreds of them say the same thing if the next guy is better off in a number of ways they would move on ( Monkey Branch ) as it's called and this shows exactly how faithful these women are or would be to any man even when married.

Women can do this without the slightest remorse and that is the crux of the matter. So I really think marriage is pretty much done for the foreseeable future until the hard times come back and things start to balance out, WW3 would be a start.
Once society breaks down and the hardship starts they would soon realise which side their bread was really buttered on believe me.

I really love the programs Bear Grillis did about men and women having to survive on those Islands it was just a little taste of what maybe to come. If anyone hasn't watched it they should it would open your eyes on how bad modern life has left us virtually incapable of surviving through hard times.


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## JWakk (Sep 14, 2020)

JWakk said:


> Yes your spot on here women put themselves in the position to give the man the opportunity to come on to them, I experienced this first hand a number of years ago it basically gives them a pass to cheat and hopefully not get blamed. But for me now cheating is cheating there's know coming back from it. You have to realise they do it once it opens the door to do it again.
> 
> If you let it go the first time they will try it again because they think you will forgive them again.
> If it is something your both agreed on even though I'm not into that stuff well that is different but the truth is once you go down that road the relationship isn't the pure relationship you had with that person it's tainted and can never be what it was. Ok some would say then have a knew different relationship ( Jordon Peterson ) did a piece on this very topic but there is always the issue can I ever trust that person again.
> ...


Just to add to this there is also another program on YouTube about cheaters being caught I forget the exact name of it but it is two guys who set people up to see if they will cheat both men and women and I only saw one woman who really loved her family enough to not cheat she actually slapped the guy hard who tried it on with her. All the rest cheated and some newly married dumped their spouse for the other guy and then found they got dumped because it was a set up.
Men do it to but the women truly were the worst in every case trying to use the same old excuses it's not what it seems or what you think.

I really started laughing as they seem to be running out of excuses these days. But one thing came out of this and that was how these so called good nice women could be so cold and heartless about what they were doing once caught.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

JWakk said:


> ... But for me now cheating is cheating there's know coming back from it. You have to realise they do it once it opens the door to do it again.
> 
> If you let it go the first time they will try it again because they think you will forgive them again.


they may, given today's loose society, assume that by you "forgiving them", you are basically giving them unlimited future permission on a don't ask, don't tell basis.

you really can not be ambiguous at all, no beating about the bush, unless you are hoping to turn her into a hot wife


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## JWakk (Sep 14, 2020)

Talker67 said:


> they may, given today's loose society, assume that by you "forgiving them", you are basically giving them unlimited future permission on a don't ask, don't tell basis.
> 
> you really can not be ambiguous at all, no beating about the bush, unless you are hoping to turn her into a hot wife


Yes that is exactly right because in a woman's eyes forgiving and keeping them means weakness so they will manipulate the situation to suit as needed.

Forgiving after you let them go though is different because being forgiving doesn't mean letting them stay with you also Forgiveness is necessary for you to heal as a person, I know this from experience because only now after 20+ years have I forgiven my original partner and it has allowed me to actually start to realise that was a lesson I was being taught by God to make me a better person.
I still have a long way to go though and many more lessons to learn.

I am well up into old age now and am still learning lessons in life because learning never really ends until you are called to account for the life you have lived.


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## One Eighty (Apr 30, 2018)

Talker67 said:


> we see that a lot in the comments to various threads. and the op's posting here find patterns in their spouses behavior that repeat broadly across all peoples. Does not matter if you are black, white, orange, region of the world you come from....similar patterns.
> 
> "looking back, the sex stopped right around when their affair began"
> "looking back, the sex went thru the roof when their ea started"
> ...


You should check out "Chump Lady." Google that. Then go the the section entitled, "Stupid Stuff Cheaters Say." There is a whole lot more common tings they say and the rationale for why it is so repetitive across cultures, races, religions, etc.


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## JWakk (Sep 14, 2020)

Marc878 said:


> Yep. No doubt.


The thing to really consider though if the cheater put as much into there relationship to start with as they are doing with the AP they would never put themselves in a position to cheat nor would they want to anyway.
People who cheat have a very poor mindset and think everyone else needs to solve their problem but themselves.
Only the person can solve what is wrong know one else can do that for them and as far as those who want to constantly stray with new people well fine but stay single and don't use others to fund your wayward life because that is exactly what they are doing having a fall back plan to protect themselves and screw everyone else or what they think.

These are outright Evil people.


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## JWakk (Sep 14, 2020)

One Eighty said:


> You should check out "Chump Lady." Google that. Then go the the section entitled, "Stupid Stuff Cheaters Say." There is a whole lot more common tings they say and the rationale for why it is so repetitive across cultures, races, religions, etc.


I have come across that term a few times I will check it out though Thank You, It may help my research.


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## Nobunny (10 mo ago)

Talker67 said:


> we see that a lot in the comments to various threads. and the op's posting here find patterns in their spouses behavior that repeat broadly across all peoples. Does not matter if you are black, white, orange, region of the world you come from....similar patterns.
> 
> "looking back, the sex stopped right around when their affair began"
> "looking back, the sex went thru the roof when their ea started"
> ...


So, you’re basically saying humans can’t exercise self-control and this is why they cheat? Even swans mate for life; if they can do that, there’s no reason a higher evolved species, like humans, can’t do the same. Your “reason” is just a cop out and an excuse to be lazy; relationships take work by both parties to be successful.


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## Works (Apr 3, 2016)

JWakk said:


> Usually those you say above are the first signs they want space to cheat with some one they already have lined up. For me if my woman asked for space like that I would say ok lets get divorced and you can have the space to screw around all you want then. Of course depending on how she actually said it as yes could be genuine but you don't sort problems out apart.
> 
> After what I went through way back when my moto is trust but verify always as I don't enjoy the feeling of my heart being ripped out of my chest.
> So even though I love my wife of now I would walk away in the bat of an eye if she started any of that crap and she knows it and so far all is well.


Wow! This is so true!!! I got the ILUBINILWU... Looking back now, I got the, I need space to properly grieve my grandmother's death (she died the year prior ,2018). He said, I don't want to take it out on you cause I know you're just trying to help.. but I need to do this alone. Like a loving supportive wife I said, omg thank you for recognizing that you have been a little mean to me lately.. Sure... whatever you need... FFWD a month after that, he filed for divorce 2019, his coworker, the week after and they moved in together...

Like you, if my boyfriend now said that to me, I'd respond the same.. Okie dokies... carry on then.


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## JWakk (Sep 14, 2020)

One Eighty said:


> You should check out "Chump Lady." Google that. Then go the the section entitled, "Stupid Stuff Cheaters Say." There is a whole lot more common tings they say and the rationale for why it is so repetitive across cultures, races, religions, etc.


I checked out some of Chump Lady and she is OK but mostly advises for women at least from the Vids I watched, It seems to me from everything I have studied and that is a lot, That women seem to be able to cheat and move on without much problem for the most part anyway.
Men seem to be far more destroyed emotionally and can't seem to get over what happened to them with a cheater, very possibly because they are more invested in the relationship where as women seem to just move from partner to partner with know care of the devastation they are causing.

At least this is what seems to be the General consensus from all studies done. It seems the woman is generally not so invested in the marriage but only in the resources the man provides.

You can see this by looking at the way most women when working don't want to support a man if he is earning less than them, Not All of Course but most, Been there seen it first hand. They still expect the man to be the one to pay for everything while they keep their own money for them selves. ( The one foot out the door syndrome always ready to jump ship ) Not all but most.


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## JWakk (Sep 14, 2020)

JWakk said:


> The thing to really consider though if the cheater put as much into there relationship to start with as they are doing with the AP they would never put themselves in a position to cheat nor would they want to anyway.
> People who cheat have a very poor mindset and think everyone else needs to solve their problem but themselves.
> Only the person can solve what is wrong know one else can do that for them and as far as those who want to constantly stray with new people well fine but stay single and don't use others to fund your wayward life because that is exactly what they are doing having a fall back plan to protect themselves and screw everyone else or what they think.
> 
> These are outright Evil people.


This is why now I have grown up and learned from experience I would never give a cheater a second chance,
If I caught her doing any cheating I would simply say "As your so invested in AP he can have you as I don't take second place to anyone. SO BYE BYE have a nice life.
Having the guts to do the above even though it hurts inside will save you in the long run and more likely save your marriage if it is saveable because as someone else said Cheaters don't want to lose their back up plan, Hence why I would be shut of them in the first place.
People who cheat especially for stupid reasons or any reasons for that matter are not relationship material and cannot be relied upon in a marriage.

They are Immature, self centred and very selfish and should just stay out of the lives of decent people.


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## JWakk (Sep 14, 2020)

Well


Talker67 said:


> but my point is...WHY are all the cheaters following the same book in how they play out the affair? If it is not in their genes, why do they all do exactly the same thing?


 There are only so many excuses they can actually find and mostly as they are covering their lies when you challenge them it's the first thing that comes to mind. Probably because their so called GFs already discussed it with them and what to say ( Yes the dreaded GFs ) This is why I think that marriage councillors are so far out of touch for most cases because if someone has the capacity to lie and deceive you to your face and try to make you think your paranoid then there is know way you can ever relie on that person to have your back the rest of your life, They have already shown you who they really are believe their actions.

OK maybe a mistake one time can be gotten over if they admit and show remorse True remorse but constant cheating is a choice and planned carefully more so when they are good at hiding it, that is not a mistake!


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## JWakk (Sep 14, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> It can happen a lot, where somebody has been used up and needs to recharge.


My answer to that I Need Space I feel Smothered, Well go be with your AP then and don't bother coming back!
I did this to an ex many years ago if there had been camera phones then the picture I would have got would have been worth thousands. Her face went so pale and know I didn't know she was cheating but the face told everything.
Never saw her again and never want to.
Men today are too clingy so scared to lose their relationships like there are no other women out their, Wake up and stop being so soft show your a man and take know prisoners. Just show her you can replace her for a better model easily that will wake her up to what she is losing.
Especially with modern women and the fems attitude they are all so free and easy. Just don't take them seriously.


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## ColdSexyFeet (Nov 28, 2021)

JWakk said:


> Just to add to this there is also another program on YouTube about cheaters being caught I forget the exact name of it but it is two guys who set people up to see if they will cheat both men and women and I only saw one woman who really loved her family enough to not cheat she actually slapped the guy hard who tried it on with her. All the rest cheated and some newly married dumped their spouse for the other guy and then found they got dumped because it was a set up.
> Men do it to but the women truly were the worst in every case trying to use the same old excuses it's not what it seems or what you think.
> 
> I really started laughing as they seem to be running out of excuses these days. But one thing came out of this and that was how these so called good nice women could be so cold and heartless about what they were doing once caught.


there is also a television show called "CHEATERS" its great


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> What is the alternative?


honesty. Being honest with yourself about someone mistreating you. Knowing full well someone else’s bad behavior isn’t your fault.

putting the responsibility of behavior onto the person exhibiting that behavior.

Knowing not to make excuses or minimizes bad behavior.

not tolerating someone making you less than top priority if the relationship is supposed to be important.


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## JWakk (Sep 14, 2020)

ColdSexyFeet said:


> there is also a television show called "CHEATERS" its great


How To Catch A Cheater Just remembered it.


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## JWakk (Sep 14, 2020)

Beach123 said:


> honesty. Being honest with yourself about someone mistreating you. Knowing full well someone else’s bad behavior isn’t your fault.
> 
> putting the responsibility of behavior onto the person exhibiting that behavior.
> 
> ...


I understand anyone protecting themselves from physical abuse but what women do to good men go's way beyond abuse.


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## bricks (Aug 14, 2017)

Talker67 said:


> "looking back, the sex stopped right around when their affair began"




Oh, if only the sex HAD stopped when he started the (unprotected) affair!


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## RickySpanish_4ever (10 mo ago)

Also, guys need to have the wisdom to discern theatrics versus true regrets and remorse. If she carries on business as usual when she doesn't KNOW that you know, she has no regrets or remorse.

When she quits denying after confronted, and the tears start, the apologies start, the "let's not divorce" starts, ask yourself: "Where were these when she thought I didn't know?" These are mere theatrics to manipulate you, she may suffer regret that she got caught, and may regret having a major lifestyle change and not having some chump who pays her bills and mows the lawn and vacuums Teddy Grahams out of her kid's car seat while she enjoys sweaty trysts with her boyfriend....but make no mistake. She does not value losing YOU. She knew the risks, and chosento do it anyway because she really doesn't care that much about losing you.


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