# The underlying failure built into most marriages



## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

I can see now that I'm in the process divorcing my wife of 6 years, what I believe to be the underlying cause of most relationship failures. 

Women are apathetic and lazy... ESPECIALLY in regards to the images that they have been projecting outwards to the public since the start of feminism. 

Here is the post that caused me to write this. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/28011-apathetic-husband-too-long-5.html

This is a zombie post from 2011 and my comment is the last.

Sure, women have a higher enrollment and graduation from graduate school. You want to know what happens after they earn those degrees? They work well below their means and often for part time hourly wages. They will constantly talk about how 'I have a ____ degree! As if a piece of paper will force someone to pay them a certain salary for the sole reason that some institution gave her a piece of paper. You actually have to get a career going to make the degree worth anything! The reasons why they do this are many.

1. They want time with the kids (never ends, even when they go to school)
2. They want to have fun
3. They want to work from home (have fun / kids)
4. They believe a man should carry most of the financial burden

So what happens is that a young woman will talk a big game about how she's a 'strong female' and 'independent', how she 'doesn't need a man', how she 'takes care of herself', and all the rest of the typical bull**** that we all know to well. 

Then, after marriage and after a few years of observing her backsliding on all her past ambitions and platitudes, the man determines that he's been lied to and is now being taken advantage of. 

The man, never wanting or believing that this is how things would turn out become embittered, and starts to resent the woman. This causes

1. Poor treatment
2. Fighting due to the obvious resentment caused by to the glaring inequality now present in the relationship
3. cheating

The women now blames the man for the cheating, she will forever blame the marriage failure on the marriage on the cheating, bit this is only the smoke. The fire that caused the smoke is the apathetic and lazy attitude that women usually develop once they are comfortable in a LTR. FIGHT THE FIRE, NOT THE SMOKE.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

"Women are apathetic and lazy... ESPECIALLY in regards to the images that they have been projecting outwards to the public since the start of feminism."


:redcard::redcard:


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Ridiculous!

Too bad you won't comprehend all the post to come.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

53791263 said:


> I can see now that I'm in the process divorcing my wife of 6 years, what I believe to be the underlying cause of most relationship failures.
> 
> Women are apathetic and lazy... ESPECIALLY in regards to the images that they have been projecting outwards to the public since the start of feminism.
> 
> ...



I agree with none of this.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

OP, I don't think you realize this says more about you and your choice in women than it does about women in general. 

It's like women who say all men are dogs without realizing, if you're a biatch, what else are you expecting to attract?


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Wow, I don't even know where to begin with this. I take it that you were seriously scorned by your soon to be ex-wife because of the reasons you mentioned? Well, I do have news for you: not all women are like this. Some are, just like some men are, but absolutely everyone doesn't deserve to get boxed into that category. Some of us are very hard workers. Hell, I worked 4 jobs at one point, and after months of working 7 day weeks, I made a major mistake at one of my jobs. Not major enough to get fired, but it was something important that I (as lead supervisor) had forgotten to do. I decided to cut back to 6-day weeks. Why did I do this? To pay for college because I refused my parent to pay for my schooling, and to also pay my car off to get out of debt. I've since purchased 2 brand new homes for myself, the last one of which my husband has moved into with me. I no longer work crazy hours; I have 1 full time job, and 2 side businesses, 1 of which keeps me fairy busy. I also work hard to keep our home clean, make sure we have homecooked meals everyday, take care of our dogs, and keep up on my own health and wellness. My husband help when he's able to, which isn't overly often. Not that he's lazy; he's just too busy with his own work. This is one of the reasons I'm considering separation: he so busy that we spend time together every few months, and I'm left to take care of almost everything. That's not fair, and it makes me feel like we're great roommates, but not so great as a cohesive team.

As for jobs and pay, I think women are finally catching up to men in that regard a little more, but there's still that gender gap when it comes to pay. I haven't had a pay raise since 2007 or 2008. Not because I don't work hard, but because the economy sucks, and I've quit some jobs or gotten laid off, and I work in a field that isn't high-paying to begin with. I kick in more than half of our living expenses even though my husband doubles my salary. This is just the way it's worked; he moved in with me from his Mom's house. I had the mortgage, and it's still solely my home as his name isn't on the deed. 

So yeah, while I can see your point to a degree, not every woman out there is like you describe. Not even almost every woman is like that. And by the way, wanting to spend more time with the kids... Raising a family IS a full time job; just one that doesn't pay money. 




53791263 said:


> I can see now that I'm in the process divorcing my wife of 6 years, what I believe to be the underlying cause of most relationship failures.
> 
> Women are apathetic and lazy... ESPECIALLY in regards to the images that they have been projecting outwards to the public since the start of feminism.
> 
> ...


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

You lost me here. How does a woman earning a degree and not starting a career end up being blamed on a man as cheating???


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I'm sorry, but failure in a marital relationship is often a two-way street! 

Something occurred or did not occur that caused one of the spouses to stray. I don't care if the BS was as innocent as Mother Theresa!

Even in my case of "presumed innocence" as a BS, perhaps it was that I was too much of a goody-two-shoes for my WS; maybe it was my unwillingness to accept her thuggish, criminally-deviant children that she had raised, as my own; perhaps it my adverse quasi-liberal political beliefs, compared to her arch-conservative ones; maybe there's not enough pizazz and excitement; perhaps it was her massive wealth compared to my proletariat state; and then again, maybe it was none of these excuses and maybe just something else that drove my RSXW to cheat, although she had also had a rumored history of even cheating on her deceased first husband!

Now I will continue going through life questioning that there's something in my makeup is what drove both of my cheating W's away and will resurface into any other subsequent relationships that I may enter into! There is now a serious lack of trust that has been built up around me!

Given that, I can certainly understand why BS's feel the way that they do, although in no uncertain terms is any of what happened to them even remotely any of their fault!!*


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Cmon people. Ignore the words. Feel the message. The guy is hurting, and venting.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

Keke24 said:


> OP, I don't think you realize this says more about you and your choice in women than it does about women in general.


100% correct, won't happen again.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

This isn't representative of all (probably not most?) women / marriages, however, it is very representative of the vocal ones pushing feminism today.

I've seen the basic formula OP is talking about unfold often: 
1) woman achieves degree 
2) woman "don't need no man" 
3) woman works part time (or significantly less hours than her male counterparts and complains about how she doesn't make as much as them 
4) woman actually does need a man and gets married anyways 
5) woman works less or not at all to childrear
6) husband works extra hours to pick up the slack on the economic end 
7) husband is dog tired and doesn't help as much with the house / kids 
8) wife resents husband for being a good husband and paying their bills
9) husband senses the resentment and reciprocates it
10) massive relationship problems ensue

This is really only limited to a certain portion of the population, but it is sizable enough to be very visible, and it really needs addressing. 

The last paragraph from OP is pretty ridiculous. If the man cheats, that's on him. She didn't make him. He chose it.

My solution to this is to test your girlfriends for the feminism derangement. If they have it, dump them. Fast. The last thing on earth you need is a man-hating harpy to emerge several years down the road.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

As Judge Judy says: "You picked 'em" 

You picked her and stayed with her for years. 

But now you see yourself as a victim, and everyone else is blame/wrong but me! It's the feminists, they did it! 

You're hurting, you're getting divorced, you have my sympathy but please know that it's takes two to make a marriage and two to break it. Accept some accountability that you both contributed to the breakdown of it instead of blaming it all on her and some group. 


Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> My solution to this is to test your girlfriends for the feminism derangement. If they have it, dump them. Fast.


Bingo


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

The OP can be 'hurting and venting' all he wants.

It doesn't give him the right to act like an all-knowing, omnipotent being who has the authority to speak negatively about an entire gender, accusing them of being exactly like the woman who obviously done him wrong. Direct your anger at your ex, OP. Where it *belongs*.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

This cannot be applied to ALL WOMEN, just as other things cannot be applied to ALL MEN. You chose badly. OWN IT. You became bitter instead of insisting that work be done to change things. OWN IT. You stayed despite your unhappiness. OWN IT. 

Her cheating is ALL ON HER. She cannot blame you no matter how unhappy she was. She sounds like a peach...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

53,

I am speaking as a mod:
1. Some of the best advice you have been given to date has come from women - the tone of your post below shows a lack of gratitude.
2. Normal to be angry at your STBXW - not so much to upscale that into a general 'women are lazy/apathetic'

Stop the gender bashing. 

-------
With that out of the way. I would have the following discussion with my lawyer:

Why can't you go into court - and show that STBXW persuaded you to FUND her masters by PROMISING to use it when she graduated. 

And that she is now choosing not to work. Why is it ok for you to be doubly punished - once by paying for the degree and a second time by being charged alimony SOLELY BECAUSE she is choosing not to use that same degree.









53791263 said:


> I can see now that I'm in the process divorcing my wife of 6 years, what I believe to be the underlying cause of most relationship failures.
> 
> Women are apathetic and lazy... ESPECIALLY in regards to the images that they have been projecting outwards to the public since the start of feminism.
> 
> ...


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm not sure who this "they" is you are speaking of.

There are all sorts in this world. Plenty of "lazy"/underachieving men and women. Plenty of hard working ones, too.

I doubt you'd wish to be painted with a broad brush.


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## stixx (Mar 20, 2017)

blueinbr said:


> Cmon people. Ignore the words. Feel the message. The guy is hurting, and venting.


This is what I was thinking too, as I read the post.

He's angry at a particular woman but he's blaming ALL women. 

Hopefully he'll get over it. If not, I hope he isn't armed.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

MEM2020 said:


> 53,
> 
> I am speaking as a mod:
> 1. Some of the best advice you have been given to date has come from women - the tone of your post below shows a lack of gratitude.
> ...


I realize that ALL women are not like the one I chose to marry. I've had some wonderful experiences going on dates in the past 2 months and have realized that my STBXW is a liberal feminist outlier that also happen to be hyper sensitive and probably has underline personality disorder. 

STBXW agreed to take a $15k buyout and waive every other possible way to get any additional money from me. I have the notarized document that the attorney drafted right here on my desk saying such. The $15k is being paid out of the equity from the house I purchased prior to marriage, and I used a VA no money down loan to fund it, so no money out of my pocket at the end of the day... just wasted equity. 

If she was pursuing alimony or maintenance I would have to have my attorney argue the masters degree situation, but I'm sick of paying him and don't need the legal fees. 

For the record, I'm not an arsehole. I've read many books over these past 7 months about dating, finding a healthy partners, yada, yada, yada.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

53791263 said:


> *The man, never wanting or believing that this is how things would turn out become embittered, and starts to resent the woman. This causes*
> 
> 1. Poor treatment
> 2. Fighting due to the obvious resentment caused by to the glaring inequality now present in the relationship
> ...





3Xnocharm said:


> This cannot be applied to ALL WOMEN, just as other things cannot be applied to ALL MEN. You chose badly. OWN IT. You became bitter instead of insisting that work be done to change things. OWN IT. You stayed despite your unhappiness. OWN IT.
> 
> Her cheating is ALL ON HER. She cannot blame you no matter how unhappy she was. She sounds like a peach...



Interestingly, I took his OP - bold above - to indicate that _he_ was the one who cheated. Because his wife was lazy. And that's what made him cheat. But it's really all her fault. 

Perhaps the OP might clarify?


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

You blame women for being unable to continue being independent after they have children? Do you not realize that the fastest growing homeless population in the US is single mothers and their children? To blame women for their husband's infidelity because they want to spend time raising their children is beyond me...

And have you looked at the statistics? Last time I checked infidelity was no less prevalent among married couples in which the wives work outside the home. And according to this survey:

"Wives with their own jobs have less to lose economically from a divorce, and social media have made it easier to engage in affairs.

…The main impetus behind extramarital affairs was predictable, Djamba said: One in four men described their marriages as “not very happy,” more than twice the number of wives who rationalized their adultery that way."

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Infidelity But Were Afraid to Ask * Hooking Up Smart : Hooking Up Smart


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

53791263 said:


> I can see now that I'm in the process divorcing my wife of 6 years, what I believe to be the underlying cause of most relationship failures.
> 
> Women are apathetic and lazy... ESPECIALLY in regards to the images that they have been projecting outwards to the public since the start of feminism.


Absolutely not commenting on the merits of this statement..... 

However, I'm amazed you survived and didn't get a ban after posting this.

Perhaps TAM has decided to allow people to exercise their freedom of expression?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Kivlor said:


> This isn't representative of all (probably not most?) women / marriages, however, it is very representative of the vocal ones pushing feminism today.
> 
> I've seen the basic formula OP is talking about unfold often:
> 
> ...


Well. 

If we're talking about English major degrees, it's not a stretch to see why.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

53791263 said:


> *STBXW agreed to take a $15k buyout and waive every other possible way to get any additional money from me.* I have the notarized document that the attorney drafted right here on my desk saying such. The $15k is being paid out of the equity from the house I purchased prior to marriage, and I used a VA no money down loan to fund it, so no money out of my pocket at the end of the day... just wasted equity.
> 
> If she was pursuing alimony or maintenance I would have to have my attorney argue the masters degree situation, but I'm sick of paying him and don't need the legal fees.


FYI: I don't know if you have kids but if you do this WILL NOT and CAN NOT include child support (CS). 

There is no legal instrument that will get you out of paying CS no matter how much money you throw at her.

She might waive it for NOW but in six months she can come after you again in court because it's "for the children".


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

53791263 said:


> I can see now that I'm in the process divorcing my wife of 6 years, what I believe to be the underlying cause of most relationship failures.
> 
> Women are apathetic and lazy... ESPECIALLY in regards to the images that they have been projecting outwards to the public since the start of feminism.
> 
> ...


This may apply to one woman, you wife, but not to most of us.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

BetrayedDad said:


> FYI: I don't know if you have kids but if you do this WILL NOT and CAN NOT include child support (CS).
> 
> There is no legal instrument that will get you out of paying CS no matter how much money you throw at her.
> 
> She might waive it for NOW but in six months she can come after you again in court because it's "for the children".


Yep and there's no limit to how many times she can come after you for more. Let's say you actually did give her the court appointed amount and she took it and blew it. She can come after you for more and you would never be able to prove that she never spent a dime on the kids.


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## stixx (Mar 20, 2017)

BetrayedDad said:


> FYI: I don't know if you have kids but if you do this WILL NOT and CAN NOT include child support (CS).
> 
> There is no legal instrument that will get you out of paying CS no matter how much money you throw at her.
> 
> She might waive it for NOW but in six months she can come after you again in court because it's "for the children".


He has no children.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> FYI: I don't know if you have kids but if you do this WILL NOT and CAN NOT include child support (CS).
> 
> There is no legal instrument that will get you out of paying CS no matter how much money you throw at her.
> 
> She might waive it for NOW but in six months she can come after you again in court because it's "for the children".


Also, depending on the state you live in, if she ever seeks financial assistance from the government, no amount of waiving on her end will save you.

Or in states like mine, where all CS payments must be made to the state, who then gives the money to the receiving spouse.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

Rowan said:


> Perhaps the OP might clarify?



http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/357314-need-advice-before-divorcing.html


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

Jessica38 said:


> You blame women for being unable to continue being independent after they have children? Do you not realize that the fastest growing homeless population in the US is single mothers and their children? To blame women for their husband's infidelity because they want to spend time raising their children is beyond me...


We have no children. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/357314-need-advice-before-divorcing.html


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> FYI: I don't know if you have kids but if you do this WILL NOT and CAN NOT include child support (CS).


No kids, praise the lord.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

53791263 said:


> We have no children.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/357314-need-advice-before-divorcing.html


No but many of the women you were referring to DO, e.g., your point about working from home to spend more time with them is somehow the cause of the demise of their marriage for pulling a "switch and bait," and becoming more dependent on their husband's income after projecting "independence."

Independent behavior is a major reason why marriages fail. Married women (and men) should be dependent on their spouses, especially when they are raising children together- it's called "interdependence" and is what most successful marriages strive for.

Thank goodness you did not have children.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

Jessica38 said:


> it's called "interdependence" and is what most successful marriages strive for.


She was completely dependent on me for everything. I cooked, paid every bill, planned vacations or evening/ weekend events, grocery shopping.... She smoked a pack a day and drank 1-2 bottles of wine every afternoon. I tried for interdependence for years, which is why I paid for her MS degree.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

53791263 said:


> She was completely dependent on me for everything. I cooked, paid every bill, planned vacations or evening/ weekend events, grocery shopping.... She smoked a pack a day and drank 1-2 bottles of wine every afternoon. I tried for interdependence for years, which is why I paid for her MS degree.


I'm sorry, and I understand your hurt and anger. But I can assure you, not all women are like this. Many of us truly care about our husbands and want to take great care of our families. I wish you the best and hope you find the woman of your dreams, who will treat you how you deserve.


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## jarhed (Nov 11, 2012)

This dude just took the RED PILL! Now your eyes are open.
Congrats!!


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Great, now the He-man woman haters club joins in...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jessica38 said:


> I'm sorry, and I understand your hurt and anger. But I can assure you, not all women are like this. Many of us truly care about our husbands and want to take great care of our families. I wish you the best and hope you find the woman of your dreams, who will treat you how you deserve.


Gee, this sounds a bit like my marriages... only my husbands were worse.

Let's see, the first decided to quit his career as an MS/EE to go to medical school. So I supported him through medical school and residency, was the main care giver to our son, and did all the house work, cooking, cleaning, etc. I also discovered that he was cheating the enter time.

Second husband worked for the first 2 years of our marriage. Then was laid off and never got a job again. Instead he spent his days playing computer games and surfing the web (literally spent every waking moment doing this). All the while I was the sole bread winner, raised my son and his 2 children, did all house work, all home maintenance, cooked, paid the bills, etc. etc. etc.

If I used your logic, I would take the great leap and say that all men are lazy, mooching, cheating asses.

Thanks goodness I am smart enough to know that I can only blame them for their own behavior.

That's an idea you might want to take seriously.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Geez that's a big ass net.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I've worked my butt off the majority of my adult life so that I wouldn't be a mooch to either my parents or my spouses.


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## jarhed (Nov 11, 2012)

Can you guys bring yourselves to admit that this is a common theme among marriages!?! I see a common thread: "Not all women are like this". The fact that this mantra is repeated followed by posters giving examples how they aren't entitled, lazy and are hardworking screams that this is the reality.

Open your eyes! EVERY DAY due to my job schedule I slip off to the gym to work out. I see gaggles of stay-at-home moms who I've gotten to know and guess what? They are educated at Furman, William and Mary, Va Tech, Michigan St- and their kids are all in school. They talk about all the outings they do together. Its the lives of Riley. 

The occasional mention of their husbands is followed by an eye roll. I can imagine these poor meal tickets being turned down for sex, coming home to a *****y demeanor. 

Society has created feminist Princesses. What recourse does the Meal Ticket have? Well, he can try and get her to work outside of the home. (BTW - taking care of babies is a HARD job, I'm not negating that- but add in "mother's mornings out, cleaning lady, child watch at the gym"). Or he can divorce, break up the family and guess what? He gets to live in a $hitty apartment while she lives in the house that he pays for. The mother "automatically" gets custody b/c she has a VaJajay.


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## jarhed (Nov 11, 2012)

And you guys are right.....

"Not all women are like that" - The ones that aren't are called Unicorns.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

jarhed said:


> Can you guys bring yourselves to admit that this is a common theme among marriages!?! I see a common thread: "Not all women are like this". The fact that this mantra is repeated followed by posters giving examples how they aren't entitled, lazy and are hardworking screams that this is the reality.
> 
> Open your eyes! EVERY DAY due to my job schedule I slip off to the gym to work out. I see gaggles of stay-at-home moms who I've gotten to know and guess what? They are educated at Furman, William and Mary, Va Tech, Michigan St- and their kids are all in school. They talk about all the outings they do together. Its the lives of Riley.
> 
> The occasional mention of their husbands is followed by an eye roll. I can imagine these poor meal tickets being turned down for sex, coming home to a *****y demeanor.


Of course this is all true. I experience the same thing everyday when I happen to go to the gym mid-day, bunch of women acting like children and of course insufferable when adult lives interject into the conversation. 

I became aware of the Red Pill community after I filed for divorce, and of course, that's all just the way of the world told without a politically correct filter to save the minorities feelings. Straight dope for the enlightened. Go forth armed with the truth and live abundantly. 

Like all things in life, I take the good and leave the extreme behind for the Stage 4 MGTOW and PUA players. All men understand the Red Pill argument without having it explained to them, it's in our DNA to know this, like a dog that does circles before laying down, it's ancient knowledge... most just don't want to believe it fully. I've been having a lot of fun implementing the Plate Theory in my dating world in the past few months with great success. I can verify that all the MGTOW/Red Pill rhetoric is very true, ESPECIALLY in the 30+ and divorced female community. https://therationalmale.com/2011/08/19/plate-theory-2/


An animals nature never changes, it's in our DNA, same with all species on earth.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jarhed said:


> Can you guys bring yourselves to admit that this is a common theme among marriages!?! I see a common thread: "Not all women are like this". The fact that this mantra is repeated followed by posters giving examples how they aren't entitled, lazy and are hardworking screams that this is the reality.
> 
> Open your eyes! EVERY DAY due to my job schedule I slip off to the gym to work out. I see gaggles of stay-at-home moms who I've gotten to know and guess what? They are educated at Furman, William and Mary, Va Tech, Michigan St- and their kids are all in school. They talk about all the outings they do together. Its the lives of Riley.
> 
> ...



I live in the uk, and practically every wife and mother here has to work full time as well to pay for the incredibly expensive housing rents or mortgages.
I am not sure who you mix with, but what you describe in women just isn't what I see at all. 
I cant think of a single mother I know who doesn't work as hard as the husband, and on top of that most women do far more work in the house and with the children than the dads do. 
MY DIL has just stopped work only 2 weeks before their baby is due! She has worked full time all through her pregnancy and will go back to work in a few months when her maternity leave ends. This is the norm here.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

By claiming his wife is representative of all women, he doesn't have to own his own choices. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> I live in the uk, and practically every wife and mother here has to work full time as well to pay for the incredibly expensive housing rents or mortgages.
> I am not sure who you mix with, but what you describe in women just isn't what I see at all.
> I cant think of a single mother I know who doesn't work as hard as the husband, and on top of that most women do far more work in the house and with the children than the dads do.
> MY DIL has just stopped work only 2 weeks before their baby is due! She has worked full time all through her pregnancy and will go back to work in a few months when her maternity leave ends. This is the norm here.



Maybe it's time to move to North Western Europe. I do love Europe, usually visit for 2 weeks every October, I'm pretty sure I could make the move.

I speculate that a lot of what you describe can be attributed to the policies that European countries have in place for growing families. All the maternity leave, universal health care, vacation time.... much less taxing on families than it is here in the U.S. We value different things here... like money, grinding, hustling, entrepreneurship, putting on a strong front, standing your ground and endless political fighting... it wears on people.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

WorkingOnMe said:


> By claiming his wife is representative of all women, he doesn't have to own his own choices.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Yep.
I have had more than enough reason to be bitter towards men. The 2 main men in my life before my present husband behaved terribly, and there has been child abuse in my family by a male family member. However I recognise that men, like women, are all different, and my present husband is very different from my first husband. There are good guys and bad ones, just like with women.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

53791263 said:


> Maybe it's time to move to North Western Europe. I do love Europe, usually visit for 2 weeks every October, I'm pretty sure I could make the move.
> 
> I speculate that a lot of what you describe can be attributed to the policies that European countries have in place for growing families. All the maternity leave, universal health care, vacation time.... much less taxing on families than it here in the U.S.


She only gets 3 months maternity leave on full pay, which includes whatever she takes before the baby is born. After that she can take more but its far less pay and eventually no pay at all. She has to return to work to get this of course. Nursery care isn't cheap, so if you have 2 children its often not worth working by the time you have paid for 2 kids, but sometimes women will work evenings or weekends when the dad can care for the children. Not ideal for the couple though. My son got the opportunity to work from home for a year so he could care for their other child. 
Most jobs have 4 weeks leave a year, is that more than in the USA?

Yes we are blessed with the NHS, although all who work do pay 12% of their income to pay for it, so its not free by any means. 

I love my country though. :smile2:

IF you did come here, be prepared for mega high cost of housing. Is is cheaper in different parts of the UK, but in general far far more expensive that the USA or Canada.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> IF you did come here, be prepared for mega high cost of housing. Is is cheaper in different parts of the UK, but in general far far more expensive that the USA or Canada.


I'm self employed so I take off whenever I want. Most people have 14 days of vacation and a few sick days.

Never been to the UK. I have visited France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Serbia, Montenegro, Bulgaria, Kosovo and Macedonia. France would be my top pick. I'd love to visit Norway, Sweden and Finland, I've heard great things.

It's all cool that you have your national identities and keep it all separate, but myself and most Americans think of it all as one big country with states, somewhat... or maybe that's just me. I like to travel around a lot when I'm there.


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## rockon (May 18, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> IF you did come here, be prepared for mega high cost of housing. Is is cheaper in different parts of the UK, but in general far far more expensive that the USA or Canada.


Last time I visited your beautiful island was 2014. I stayed with good friends I made in my military days. I was absolutely gob smacked when I discovered how much housing costs in Great Briton. It is unreal!

BTW, I love your country to!


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I see yuppie entitled moms with baby strollers in Starbucks all the time. Of course entitlement exists, like the sky is blue. 

I'm not sure what preaching to the veritable choir is going to do to rectify such an issue. Many women here come from many diverse backgrounds, educations, values, and opinions when it comes to pulling ones weight in a relationship. I don't particularly see a lot of entitlement here but I'm not exactly unbiased. 

And what was referred to as a unicorn I think of as a sensible, mature, responsible woman. With the right upbringing, influence, and exemplars, many women can attain unicorn status. The unfortunate reality is that many women come from damaged backgrounds, have daddy issues and poor role models. Those resilient to those external factors are going to be very different from those who aren't.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

53791263 said:


> I'm self employed so I take off whenever I want. Most people have 14 days of vacation and a few sick days.
> 
> Never been to the UK. I have visited France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Serbia, Montenegro, Bulgaria, Kosovo and Macedonia. France would be my top pick. I'd love to visit Norway, Sweden and Finland, I've heard great things.
> 
> It's all cool that you have your national identities and keep it all separate, but myself and most Americans think of it all as one big country with states, somewhat... or maybe that's just me. I like to travel around a lot when I'm there.


in Europe, I have been to France, Spain 3 times, Switzerland(beautiful), Luxemburg, Italy, Scotland and Wales. I would like to go to Austria and Holland. 
The EU wants us to be mere states and loose our identities, thank goodness we are coming out.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Satya said:


> I see yuppie entitled moms with baby strollers in Starbucks all the time. Of course entitlement exists, like the sky is blue.
> 
> I'm not sure what preaching to the veritable choir is going to do to rectify such an issue. Many women here come from many diverse backgrounds, educations, values, and opinions when it comes to pulling ones weight in a relationship. I don't particularly see a lot of entitlement here but I'm not exactly unbiased.
> 
> And what was referred to as a unicorn I think of as a sensible, mature, responsible woman. With the right upbringing, influence, and exemplars, many women can attain unicorn status. The unfortunate reality is that many women come from damaged backgrounds, have daddy issues and poor role models. Those resilient to those external factors are going to be very different from those who aren't.


These women with young babies are probably on maternity leave. Most will be going back to work.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

rockon said:


> Last time I visited your beautiful island was 2014. I stayed with good friends I made in my military days. I was absolutely gob smacked when I discovered how much housing costs in Great Briton. It is unreal!
> 
> BTW, I love your country to!


Where did you stay? We have recently moved from the South(very expensive) to the Midlands where house prices are 40% cheaper. So we got a bigger house for less money. My son and family have moved right up to the north of England so that they could afford their own home.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> I would like to go to Austria and Holland.


Holland is like, a 2-3 hour drive from the London, right? That's a short drive for me. 

If I lived in Europe, I would have seen the entire continent by now, no doubt about it. Everything is within a 24 drive. Like driving from my home (Pennsylvania) to the Florida Keys, I've driven it 3 times. Also, with the ridiculously cheap RyanAir and other carriers, no reason not to explore every single thing. I flew from Barcelona to Lisbon in October for $50, could have flown to Rome for the same price. 

I'm either going to Ireland or Italy this October. Since it's just going to be me this time, probably stick to Ireland because of the language similarity. I don't want to be too lonely and I don't speak Italian.

I'm saving the UK for one of my last trips abroad, I feel it would be so similar to the US that I'd regret it.


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## rockon (May 18, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Where did you stay?


It was north of London, in Luton.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

53791263 said:


> Holland is like, a 2-3 hour drive from the London, right? That's a short drive for me.
> 
> If I lived in Europe, I would have seen the entire continent by now, no doubt about it. Everything is within a 24 drive. Like driving from my home (Pennsylvania) to the Florida Keys, I've driven it 3 times. Also, with the ridiculously cheap RyanAir and other carriers, no reason not to explore every single thing. I flew from Barcelona to Lisbon in October for $50, could have flown to Rome for the same price.
> 
> ...


Holland is over 8 hours from where I live. nearly 10 hours by train/bus.etc. Then you have to have enough money to stay for a while. 

No not everything is within a 24 hours drive by any means, and then there are ferries etc which take time. I have explored most of the UK, and also been to Canada, Malasia, America and Australia. My husband is Australian. 

Its not similar to the UK no, that's why so many Americans come here, for the amazing history and the beautiful countryside and cute villages.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

That is a pretty big generalization. My wife does our home repairs, all the shopping and keeps our home immaculate. She has worked when she wanted to and not from home either. I basically sit and type all day from home while she does all other things needed to be done like filing our taxes and paying our bills. She is in charge of all things to do with our house. Many men go to work from 9 to 5 and get away from their home and kids. Many women have to not only work but deal with the kids and take care of the home. They cannot come home and watch TV while someone else prepares dinner. I think men have it easier than women. My wife endures more pain than I can and without her I would be lost. 

It can be that you are attracted to a certain type of woman because my wife is not lazy, I am. She has put up with me for 44 years. Put up with someone who has to have things done his way and is always right when he is wrong. I cannot imagine my life without my wife. Sure I have accomplished a lot in my career but that was because she held down the fort while I was travelling all over the world 3 months out of every year, on business. Sometimes I would come home and find the interior walls freshly painted by her or some other large chore that I would never do. I think you are generalizing things too much.

For instance, they do not work for less because of themselves. They work for less because men pay them less. Men do not value women as much as men in the business world. Sure there are lots of women who are raised to take on the traditional role of a wife where the man of the house earns the money and they take care of the house. They are not lazy. Being a housewife is very hard work. Spend a few weeks with your kids sometime while your wife is out for most of the day. A lot of what you say is due to a society built by men for men. Wives were once considered property. The traditional role of a wife is tied to our generic heritage where they married a man who could protect and provide for them while they tended to the children and home life. If you do not want a wife like that, don't marry one like that. Marry a career oriented wife. I work for a female owned company where women are treated the same as men. My boss's husband is a househusband who raised two girls who are now in college. There are all types of woman as there are men. The only generalization you can make is that women do not have a penis, most times.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

53791263 said:


> Holland is like, a 2-3 hour drive from the London, right? That's a short drive for me.


Yes but you will have to take your really fast amphibious car :grin2:


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

53791263 said:


> I can see now that I'm in the process divorcing my wife of 6 years, what I believe to be the underlying cause of most relationship failures.
> 
> Women are apathetic and lazy... ESPECIALLY in regards to the images that they have been projecting outwards to the public since the start of feminism.
> 
> ...


OK, I'll take the bait. 
The reality is that many woman work harder than men, are better qualified than men but unfortunately the system is tailored to men. There is a plethora of academic research to back this up. In my own case I earned much more than my husband when we got married, however I was still expected to do the lion's share of housework, pay bills etc. because he was brought up in a household where the man did in fact earn most of the money. Some men have the attitude that because they have a penis it somehow entitles them to better treatment and they are superior.
When it came time to have kids, that ended up being my responsibility too, I had to change careers because coming home at 10pm at night wouldn't work, he continued to live life the same way, out late, out with the boys, out with clients, etc so something had to give. Of course it was me.
If he could have given birth to the children and taken care of them, I would have been fine with that but I couldn't manage the career and the bulk of the responsibility at home. Many women are in this position. Even now the kids are gone I still organise everything at home, to get him to sort out the garden, maintain the cars, etc is sometimes like pulling teeth. His excuse, he is busy, he is overseas, etc, well so am I. Women are caretakers, we put all and sundry first instead of our own selves, men put themselves and their careers first. Even at work we are self effacing, it is our nature and unfortunately lose out as a result. 
What you have written lacks any form of concrete evidence and appear to be the ranting of an embittered man who chooses women you don't like, that really is your probably. I guess you have heard that one shouldn't generalise


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

jarhed said:


> This dude just took the RED PILL! Now your eyes are open.
> Congrats!!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVXdxaaRiAU


I couldn't get through this. You haven't learned "The Ugly Truth About Female Nature", you just been brainwashed to blame women for your own insecurity. Tragic. "Level Two MGTOW" Hahaha!

And I suppose this is as good a place as any to ask about Hypergamy. Hypergamy appears to be a central tenet of the Red Pill/MGTOW belief system but is there any actual scientific basis for this "fact"? The wikipedia link talks about castes.

Happy to be enlightened on Hypergamy.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

53791263 said:


> Holland is like, a 2-3 hour drive from the London, right? That's a short drive for me.
> 
> If I lived in Europe, I would have seen the entire continent by now, no doubt about it. Everything is within a 24 drive. Like driving from my home (Pennsylvania) to the Florida Keys, I've driven it 3 times. Also, with the ridiculously cheap RyanAir and other carriers, no reason not to explore every single thing. I flew from Barcelona to Lisbon in October for $50, could have flown to Rome for the same price.
> 
> ...


Holland is over the sea. So you get to take a ferry.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

aine said:


> OK, I'll take the bait.
> The reality is that many woman work harder than men, are better qualified than men but unfortunately the system is tailored to men. There is a plethora of academic research to back this up. In my own case I earned much more than my husband when we got married, however I was still expected to do the lion's share of housework, pay bills etc. because he was brought up in a household where the man did in fact earn most of the money. Some men have the attitude that because they have a penis it somehow entitles them to better treatment and they are superior.
> When it came time to have kids, that ended up being my responsibility too, I had to change careers because coming home at 10pm at night wouldn't work, he continued to live life the same way, out late, out with the boys, out with clients, etc so something had to give. Of course it was me.
> If he could have given birth to the children and taken care of them, I would have been fine with that but I couldn't manage the career and the bulk of the responsibility at home. Many women are in this position. Even now the kids are gone I still organise everything at home, to get him to sort out the garden, maintain the cars, etc is sometimes like pulling teeth. His excuse, he is busy, he is overseas, etc, well so am I. Women are caretakers, we put all and sundry first instead of our own selves, men put themselves and their careers first. Even at work we are self effacing, it is our nature and unfortunately lose out as a result.
> What you have written lacks any form of concrete evidence and appear to be the ranting of an embittered man who chooses women you don't like, that really is your probably. I guess you have heard that one shouldn't generalise


So very wrong, and totally ego driven.

Men have created every society that has ever existed on the planet. Every society and nation was created by groups of men with political and military organizations. These men planned and died to create these societies and nations and furthered them by creating industries that helped fund their defenses and political goals. Law, order, discipline, ethos, brutality and bloodshed have all been created and used by men to form all that we have. 

Everything on the planet is due to men planning and dying for a cause greater than themselves. Men will die for one another and their ideas and to advance a cause. Woman... not so much. So, as long as men exist in the world, women will be dependent on good men that share their values and world view.

I agree with you that I did choose a bad one. Bad for me anyways.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

Vinnydee said:


> That is a pretty big generalization. My wife does our home repairs, all the shopping and keeps our home immaculate. She has worked when she wanted to and not from home either. I basically sit and type all day from home while she does all other things needed to be done like filing our taxes and paying our bills. She is in charge of all things to do with our house. Many men go to work from 9 to 5 and get away from their home and kids. Many women have to not only work but deal with the kids and take care of the home. They cannot come home and watch TV while someone else prepares dinner. I think men have it easier than women. My wife endures more pain than I can and without her I would be lost.
> 
> It can be that you are attracted to a certain type of woman because my wife is not lazy, I am. She has put up with me for 44 years. Put up with someone who has to have things done his way and is always right when he is wrong. I cannot imagine my life without my wife. Sure I have accomplished a lot in my career but that was because she held down the fort while I was travelling all over the world 3 months out of every year, on business. Sometimes I would come home and find the interior walls freshly painted by her or some other large chore that I would never do. I think you are generalizing things too much.
> 
> For instance, they do not work for less because of themselves. They work for less because men pay them less. Men do not value women as much as men in the business world. Sure there are lots of women who are raised to take on the traditional role of a wife where the man of the house earns the money and they take care of the house. They are not lazy. Being a housewife is very hard work. Spend a few weeks with your kids sometime while your wife is out for most of the day. A lot of what you say is due to a society built by men for men. Wives were once considered property. The traditional role of a wife is tied to our generic heritage where they married a man who could protect and provide for them while they tended to the children and home life. If you do not want a wife like that, don't marry one like that. Marry a career oriented wife. I work for a female owned company where women are treated the same as men. My boss's husband is a househusband who raised two girls who are now in college. There are all types of woman as there are men. The only generalization you can make is that women do not have a penis, most times.



That's sweet. "cough, cough, beta, cough".


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

53791263 said:


> That's sweet. "cough, cough, beta, cough".


You demonstrate your inferiority complex when you put other men down.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

azteca1986 said:


> You demonstrate your inferiority complex when you put other men down.



Oh really? Thanks, since you say that, it must be so.

Take your browbeating elsewhere, maybe there is a schoolmarm forum around here.

Hey everyone. If you ever put a fellow person from your own gender down, it means you have an inferiority complex.... just so you know.

This reminds me of 'if you peal the label on your beer bottle it means you're sexually frustrated'.

I hope you didn't have to earn a degree in psychology to make you feel qualified to come up with that stuff.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

53791263 said:


> Oh really? Thanks, since you say that, it must be so.


People with high self-esteem don't feel the need to put down others

12 Things High Self-Esteem People Don't Do

Embracing victimhood, as you have, isn't a healthy path.


> Take your browbeating elsewere, maybe there is a schoolmarm forum around here.


I'll post where I like. Cheers.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

azteca1986 said:


> People with high self-esteem don't feel the need to put down others
> 
> 12 Things High Self-Esteem People Don't Do


Woa, lifehack.org paid a virtual assistant in the Philippines $10 to write a short blog about a random subject to get more clicks. Take notice everyone and pay attention.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

53791263 said:


> Woa, lifehack.org paid a virtual assistant in the Philippines $10 to write a short blog about a random subject to get more clicks. Take notice everyone and pay attention.


MGTOW are like people who've either crashed their cars or are too scared to get a licence lecturing people on how to drive.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

azteca1986 said:


> MGTOW are like people who've either crashed their cars or are too scared to get a licence lecturing people on how to drive.


I'm not a MGTOW, maybe a purple piller in their vernacular, which is the lowest level, someone just barely aware. 

It's an interesting subject and I agree with much of what they say about women, it's all the simple truth of the genders, they just put a name to a large block of knowledge that men all around the planet already knew. I do not however, subscribe to the notion of withdrawing from dating and not marrying again. I will marry again and will have a prenup signed. 

I'm also not a misogynist and check myself often so as to not become one while I peruse the manosphere taking the good and leaving the extreme.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

53791263 said:


> I'm not a MGTOW, maybe a purple piller in their vernacular, which is the lowest level, someone just barely aware.


I have no idea what a purple piller is. I'm a Level Eleven Skeptic.



> It's an interesting subject and I agree with much of what they say about women, it's all the simple truth of the genders, they just put a name to a large block of knowledge that men all around the planet already knew. I do not however, subscribe to the notion of withdrawing from dating and or the possibility of marrying again. I will marry again and will have a prenup signed.
> 
> I'm also not a misogynist and check myself often so as to not become one while I peruse the manosphere taking the good and leaving the extreme.


The danger is it'll skew your value systems and fill your head with pseudo-scientific crap.

Looking at women as the enemy or intrinsically duplicitous is a terrible start point for finding a future partner.


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## Dr. Stupid (Dec 8, 2016)

I don't know if I really care to engage in this slap fight all that much, but I've learned, as a minority woman with several degrees, is that men need to avoid women whose major or degree ends in the word "Studies" like the plague. :smile2: 

You don't want to marry someone who's looking for new and trendy ways to identify as a victim. 

As for the OP, "Sorry you feel that way".


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

Dr. Stupid said:


> I don't know if I really care to engage in this slap fight all that much, but I've learned, as a minority woman with several degrees, is that men need to avoid women whose major or degree ends in the word "Studies" like the plague. :smile2:


My STBXW is extremely proud and boastful of her Women's Studies degree. I thought she wanted to rule the world and she put on a strong front about it all... the real world proved her wrong.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Forgot this


53791263 said:


> I'm also not a misogynist and *check myself often* so as to not become one while I peruse the manosphere taking the good and leaving the extreme.


Then you'd better check your OP where you denigrate an entire gender due to you unfortunate experience with one woman.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

azteca1986 said:


> Forgot thisThen you'd better check your OP where you denigrate an entire gender due to you unfortunate experience with one woman.


Some people just can't let things go. The slightest imperfection, misuse of grammar, tone, the smallest unknown detail.. it eats them from the inside out, completely consuming their thoughts. They end up returning to it endlessly and find themselves unable to move forward.

Social justice or bust


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

53791263 said:


> Some people just can't let things go. The slightest imperfection, misuse of grammar, tone, the smallest unknown detail.. it eats them from the inside out, completely consuming their thoughts.


Not sure where you're going with this but it sounds like something else you can work on.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I am so confused by the spurious statements made by the OP. My wife and I have been equal partners in our marriage. When she stayed home with the kids, she went out and started a home based business that was more than equal to my salary at the time. Her doing so, was a surprise, we had discussed me carrying us until the kids were in school, but she quickly became bored. 

I'm sorry, but from a work and input standpoint, we have never, to my knowledge resented each other.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

Taxman said:


> I am so confused by the spurious statements made by the OP.


You're confused by my false or invalid statements? Do you know me, have we met? Seems like a flippant statement to make considering you have no background information to support your claim that my statements about a private relationship between two people are.... spurious.

I hope you don't go around using that word like it's common, you'll sound pretty pretentious and a little uppity. Unless you're an editor for the Daily Kos or a speech writer for the DNC, proceed to use spurious in everyday conversations.


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## megamuppet (Feb 13, 2017)

Oh dear.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## jarhed (Nov 11, 2012)

azteca1986 said:


> You demonstrate your inferiority complex when you put other men down.



He wasn't putting him down, he correctly labeled this dude. By definition, he is Beta. I was thinking the same thing.


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## jarhed (Nov 11, 2012)

Can we all just agree that feminism in western 1st world nations has in fact skewed true equality as it relates to marriage and divorce?

Not talking about exceptions "Not all women are like that" - but the norm is women have all the choices and men have none. Get your arse up and go to work. Apologize for being masculine and it is now your job to earn the bacon, be at every Tball game and do half the laundry. Your wife however can work full time, part time or not at all. Oh, and if she decides she doesn't want to be married anymore, she can stay in the house b/c the courts will dictate this. 

So, go get a crappy apartment and eat spaghetti or other cheap food while you pay for your ex to live in the big house with the kids that she automatically gets prime custody of (along with $$ child support). Unless your wife is a meth head with a rap sheet she is going to get the kids.

Men are committing suicide at an alarming rate b/c the courts screw them and leave them broken and helpless against the system.

OP - you're a fool if you marry again, but I guess a prenup at least protects you to a degree.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

jarhed said:


> OP - you're a fool if you marry again, but I guess a prenup at least protects you to a degree.


https://www.facebook.com/Fathers4kids/posts/707829342580894:0

Their was a great book written about how the family court system bullied this father into suicide: Bullied to Death https://www.amazon.com/Bullied-Death-Mackneys-Kafkaesque-Divorce-ebook/dp/B0149ERBBI

IMO every person going through the process to marry should be required to attend counseling about prenuptial agreements and some light contract law. A marriage is a BUSINESS CONTRACT, why wouldn't you protect yourself when entering into a business contract???

Can you think of any business contract whereas if the venture fails the outcome is that the least productive partner is rewarded and receives the majority of the earned profits and hypothetical future profits? That F---cking insane MAN. Wake up. Marriages are completely unequal business ventures that in no way would be entered into when viewed from this analytical and business minded viewpoint. It's a shame that men love woman much more than woman are capable of giving in return, this love blinds us to future disasters.

The least productive partner in the failed business venture can even have the court system force the successful partner to pay their legal fees! Yeah, that's crazy town. It's really no surprise the family court buildings are harder to access that an airport terminal.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

jarhed said:


> Can we all just agree that feminism in western 1st world nations has in fact skewed true equality as it relates to marriage and divorce?
> .


Nope. Won't agree. 



> Not talking about exceptions "Not all women are like that" - but the norm is women have all the choices and men have none


Not true, either, but I'll tell ya...if it IS true, then all I have to say is turn-about is fair play. For thousands of years, it was MEN who had all the choices and WOMEN who had none. 



> Get your arse up and go to work. Apologize for being masculine and it is now your job to earn the bacon, be at every Tball game and do half the laundry. Your wife however can work full time, part time or not at all. Oh, and if she decides she doesn't want to be married anymore, she can stay in the house b/c the courts will dictate this.
> 
> So, go get a crappy apartment and eat spaghetti or other cheap food while you pay for your ex to live in the big house with the kids that she automatically gets prime custody of (along with $$ child support). Unless your wife is a meth head with a rap sheet she is going to get the kids.


This isn't true either. Whatever happened to people negotiating their marriages? And besides, nowadays, if a woman earns more than her husband and goes through divorce, quite a number of men are receiving child support, alimony and even primary and SOLE custody of the kids from their ex-wives.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

jarhed said:


> He wasn't putting him down, he correctly labeled this dude. By definition, he is Beta. I was thinking the same thing.


What definition would that be?

Are you able to defend that ridiculous MGOTW video you posted? It's full of barely coherent nonsense. 

What is Hypergamy?


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

53791263 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/Fathers4kids/posts/707829342580894:0
> 
> Their was a great book written about how the family court system bullied this father into suicide: Bullied to Death https://www.amazon.com/Bullied-Death-Mackneys-Kafkaesque-Divorce-ebook/dp/B0149ERBBI
> 
> ...



LOL!!! 

I'll tell ya, I LONG for the day where men are 'owned' as property of their MOTHER'S; where MEN are FORCED to marry a woman who the MOTHER chooses...where only a WOMAN can divorce a MAN and a MAN wasn't allowed to divorce. 

How about a WIFE having several husbands? Or that only a WOMAN was allowed to own property? 

Seems to me that if 'men' wouldn't like that....arrangement....they shouldn't have done the very same thing to WOMEN for thousands of years.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

jarhed said:


> Can we all just agree that feminism in western 1st world nations has in fact skewed true equality as it relates to marriage and divorce?


No. 

Why do so many so-called Men obsess about feminism? Men of my generation (40s) don't give it a second thought.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

Vega said:


> I'll tell ya, I LONG for the day where men are 'owned' as property of their MOTHER'S; where MEN are FORCED to marry a woman who the MOTHER chooses...where only a WOMAN can divorce a MAN and a MAN wasn't allowed to divorce.
> 
> How about a WIFE having several husbands? Or that only a WOMAN was allowed to own property?


Yo, I'm going to go ahead and state the obvious. This is 2017, not 1940, and we're living in the U.S., not some 3rd world backwater.

Do you have a valid argument or are you just completely bent about a history book?

I smell a Social Justice Warrior. Must be a slow day at the Huffington Post.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

azteca1986 said:


> Men of my generation (40s) don't give it (FEMINISM) a second thought.


Quite a lot has changed since you came of age... IN THE 40'S! lol


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jarhed said:


> Can you guys bring yourselves to admit that this is a common theme among marriages!?! I see a common thread: "Not all women are like this". The fact that this mantra is repeated followed by posters giving examples how they aren't entitled, lazy and are hardworking screams that this is the reality.
> 
> Open your eyes! EVERY DAY due to my job schedule I slip off to the gym to work out. I see gaggles of stay-at-home moms who I've gotten to know and guess what? They are educated at Furman, William and Mary, Va Tech, Michigan St- and their kids are all in school. They talk about all the outings they do together. Its the lives of Riley.
> 
> ...


70% of married women have jobs.

About 50% earn as much or more than their husbands.

Clearly they are not all at the gym being "feminist Princesses".

What is really funny is you are talking about the women you see at the gym when you are there. So if we follow your line of thinking, you are some kind of "Prince" since you are just at the gym goofing off.


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## jarhed (Nov 11, 2012)

azteca1986 said:


> What definition would that be?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Sorry, SweetPea- I neglected to answer your question. I'm on my phone, so I can't type my own lengthy reply, but here are a few comments and a link that will help. 


I can clarify later if you like? Women view men as a utility. A wallet, sperm donor, father for her offspring. Women try to mold there often alpha men into a Beta and then later reject him b/c Chad at the gym is more masculine and excites her. Well, you created this problem. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3idzbj/hypergamy_past_present_and_future/



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

53791263 said:


> Yo, I'm going to go ahead and state the obvious. This is 2017, not 1940, and we're living in the U.S., not some 3rd world backwater.


Do your homework, dude...


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

Vega said:


> Do your homework, dude...


Insightful. Isn't their a protest going on today that you could go to?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

53791263 said:


> Maybe it's time to move to North Western Europe. I do love Europe, usually visit for 2 weeks every October, I'm pretty sure I could make the move.
> 
> I speculate that a lot of what you describe can be attributed to the policies that European countries have in place for growing families. All the maternity leave, universal health care, vacation time.... much less taxing on families than it is here in the U.S. We value different things here... like money, grinding, hustling, entrepreneurship, putting on a strong front, standing your ground and endless political fighting... it wears on people.


All the married women I know here in the USA work just a hard to support their family as their husbands do. I get that you are bitter, but get real. Only you and your wife own the failure of your marriage.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

jarhed said:


> I can clarify later if you like? *Women* view men as a utility. A wallet, sperm donor, father for her offspring. *Women* try to mold there often alpha men into a Beta and then later reject him...


Sorry sweetpea, but "women" don't do this. SOME women do this, but you have no idea how many do or how many don't. 

If you have proof to the contrary, I'd love to see it. Your experiences with 'women' are with barely a handful of women on the planet.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

This thread is gone off the rails.

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

53791263 said:


> Insightful. Isn't their a protest going on today that you could go to?


I LOVE it when men like you resort to insults because you have nothing worthwhile to say.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Dr. Stupid said:


> I don't know if I really care to engage in this slap fight all that much, but I've learned, as a minority woman with several degrees, is that men need to avoid women whose major or degree ends in the word "Studies" like the plague. :smile2:
> 
> You don't want to marry someone who's looking for new and trendy ways to identify as a victim.
> 
> As for the OP, "Sorry you feel that way".


The OP might not have a degree that ends in "study", or maybe he does. We don't know. But, reading his posts, it is clear that a person does not need such a degree to find ways to identify as a victim.


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

Haven't read everything but the US is especially unforgiving towards working mothers. My friends in Canada can take a year off and go back to work. In the US, women have to sacrifice tremendously career wise in order to care for their young children. I find it almost barbaric that women have to go back straight to work after having babies. 

I'm 31, have a degree in engineering and I make 6 figures a year. But guess what, when I have kids, it means I will have to sacrifice time with them. I always used to worry about what I would do when I do have kids, since I only get 12 weeks paid off for maternity at my job. I've made this decision though, to keep working. Many women choose to sacrifice their careers and focus on family. Men don't have to make that tough choice, they get to keep their careers and have kids, no problem. 

Women will get judged either way but society. Some will judge SAHMs, others working moms. There's no winning.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

Vega said:


> I LOVE it when men like you resort to insults because you have nothing worthwhile to say.


I'm pretty sure you are the one that had nothing to say except for some insinuations about how things were before any of us were born, trying to make it seem like this is all going on in our modern culture:



Vega said:


> LOL!!!
> 
> I'll tell ya, I LONG for the day where men are 'owned' as property of their MOTHER'S; where MEN are FORCED to marry a woman who the MOTHER chooses...where only a WOMAN can divorce a MAN and a MAN wasn't allowed to divorce.
> 
> ...


What do you have to say about the obvious flaw in the family court system and their role in this mans suicide. 

_https://www.facebook.com/Fathers4kid...829342580894:0

Their was a great book written about how the family court system bullied this father into suicide: Bullied to Death https://www.amazon.com/Bullied-Death.../dp/B0149ERBBI

IMO every person going through the process to marry should be required to attend counseling about prenuptial agreements and some light contract law. A marriage is a BUSINESS CONTRACT, why wouldn't you protect yourself when entering into a business contract???

Can you think of any business contract whereas if the venture fails the outcome is that the least productive partner is rewarded and receives the majority of the earned profits and hypothetical future profits? That F---cking insane MAN. Wake up. Marriages are completely unequal business ventures that in no way would be entered into when viewed from this analytical and business minded viewpoint. It's a shame that men love woman much more than woman are capable of giving in return, this love blinds us to future disasters.

The least productive partner in the failed business venture can even have the court system force the successful partner to pay their legal fees! Yeah, that's crazy town. It's really no surprise the family court buildings are harder to access that an airport terminal._


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## jarhed (Nov 11, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> 70% of married women have jobs.
> 
> About 50% earn as much or more than their husbands.
> 
> ...


What source are you quoting for these stats? And I'm self employed also, so as long as I bring home the bacon - I can work out anytime I want. I prefer to start working at 6am and break mid morning to work out.


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