# New Relationship Drama - Is it worth it?



## bravenewworld

Been off the boards for a bit while I cleared up some legal matters…the good news is the paperwork was finally stamped and I am officially DIVORCED! The negative emotional triggers regarding my marriage went from multiple times a day to maybe 2x per month. I'm now about fifteen months out from when we first separated. 

I feel like I've done the hard work to move on with my life, but putting myself out there with others again has been hard. I would like the affection and companionship that comes with a committed relationship (as I've discovered I'm a crappy multi-dater) but I seem to be bad at cultivating one. 

Current situation: Reconnected about two months ago with one of the first people I dated after separating with my ex, a guy named George. After we reconnected, he pursued me very aggressively initially - telling me how beautiful I am, how the relationship could be whatever I wanted it to be, taking me out on really nice dates, etc. etc. He even got his own apartment after I said I thought he was a little too old to have six roommates. (Seriously, six roommates. It was like a frat house. And no, he is not financially destitute.)

During the time we weren't talking, he apparently decided his previous ex girlfriend was the "love of his life" and chased after her. She wound up turning him down for another guy, which infuriated him. Now he says he is "working through his issues" but unable to commit and be completely emotionally present with me. This made me really upset and I attempted to break it off (whatever "it" is, as we are not exclusive) He promised to let go of her ghost, so to speak, and prioritize developing a relationship with me. 

Since this, the relationship is moving backward. The sex has dwindled (erection issues), he calls/texts less, he won't even french kiss me anymore because "It's been a while" and "he's not used to it." However, he assures me that will change with time. :roll eyes:

It's very frustrating for me, because one second he's taking me furniture shopping to make sure we both fit on his new couch when we spoon, then the next second I see him liking his ex's pictures on FB or receiving a text message from her. He swears up and down they aren't talking, but I find that hard to believe. 

His bottom line is "he's been honest with me" and if I stop dating him he'll "forever regret having missed out on a great opportunity." He also tells me moving has been stressful and that's why he's been distant. 

Having my own emotional baggage, (but not nearly as much IMHO) is this what I can expect now that I'm older and dating? The last time I did the dating thing I was in my late teens/very early twenties and things didn't seem so complicated. 

Last night I had a dream I came in second place in a pie eating contest….seemed like a metaphor for this situation. I feel like I'm playing second fiddle to an ex who lives out of state. He only saw her maybe 2-3x per year during the three years they were together. Doesn't make sense. 

This entire situation has been causing me a lot of stress as of late. Maybe it's better just to be alone……...


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## Jellybeans

_ Now he says he is "working through his issues" but unable to commit and be completely emotionally present with me._ 

That's all you needed to hear.

Cut it off once and for all and move on.

You already know.

_Since this, the relationship is moving backward. The sex has dwindled (erection issues), he calls/texts less, he won't even french kiss me anymore because "It's been a while" and "he's not used to it." However, he assures me that will change with time. :roll eyes:_


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## nice777guy

bravenewworld said:


> Been off the boards for a bit while I cleared up some legal matters…the good news is the paperwork was finally stamped and I am officially DIVORCED! The negative emotional triggers regarding my marriage went from multiple times a day to maybe 2x per month. I'm now about fifteen months out from when we first separated.
> 
> I feel like I've done the hard work to move on with my life, but putting myself out there with others again has been hard. I would like the affection and companionship that comes with a committed relationship (as I've discovered I'm a crappy multi-dater) but I seem to be bad at cultivating one.
> 
> Current situation: Reconnected about two months ago with one of the first people I dated after separating with my ex, a guy named George. After we reconnected, he pursued me very aggressively initially - telling me how beautiful I am, how the relationship could be whatever I wanted it to be, taking me out on really nice dates, etc. etc. He even got his own apartment after I said I thought he was a little too old to have six roommates. (Seriously, six roommates. It was like a frat house. And no, he is not financially destitute.)
> 
> During the time we weren't talking, he apparently decided his previous ex girlfriend was the "love of his life" and chased after her. She wound up turning him down for another guy, which infuriated him. Now he says he is "working through his issues" but unable to commit and be completely emotionally present with me. This made me really upset and I attempted to break it off (whatever "it" is, as we are not exclusive) He promised to let go of her ghost, so to speak, and prioritize developing a relationship with me.
> 
> Since this, the relationship is moving backward. The sex has dwindled (erection issues), he calls/texts less, he won't even french kiss me anymore because "It's been a while" and "he's not used to it." However, he assures me that will change with time. :roll eyes:
> 
> It's very frustrating for me, because one second he's taking me furniture shopping to make sure we both fit on his new couch when we spoon, then the next second I see him liking his ex's pictures on FB or receiving a text message from her. He swears up and down they aren't talking, but I find that hard to believe.
> 
> His bottom line is "he's been honest with me" and if I stop dating him he'll "forever regret having missed out on a great opportunity." He also tells me moving has been stressful and that's why he's been distant.
> 
> Having my own emotional baggage, (but not nearly as much IMHO) is this what I can expect now that I'm older and dating? The last time I did the dating thing I was in my late teens/very early twenties and things didn't seem so complicated.
> 
> Last night I had a dream I came in second place in a pie eating contest….seemed like a metaphor for this situation. I feel like I'm playing second fiddle to an ex who lives out of state. He only saw her maybe 2-3x per year during the three years they were together. Doesn't make sense.
> 
> This entire situation has been causing me a lot of stress as of late. Maybe it's better just to be alone……...


Do you enjoy spending time with him? More often than not?


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## PBear

Just because George isn't the guy for you doesn't mean you're better off alone... There's about 3.5 billion other guys (minus George and your ex) who might be a fit for you. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SamuraiJack

"the relationship is moving backward"

Need you even think about this any more?


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## Jellybeans

PBear said:


> Just because George isn't the guy for you doesn't mean you're better off alone... There's about 3.5 billion other guys (minus George and your ex) who might be a fit for you.


Just want to say, you are on fire today.

:smthumbup:


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## PBear

Jellybeans said:


> Just want to say, you are on fire today.
> 
> :smthumbup:


You flatter me! . Just bored at work...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rowan

Honestly, my ex-husband is pulling the same bullsh!t with his new girlfriend as George is with you. At first, I felt sorry for her. Now after several months, I just figure she must be getting some emotional payoff out of the situation since she's not trying to get out of it. I mean, these guys don't just have red flags, they practically come surrounded by traffic cones! 

Is this really what you want in a relationship? Yes, you're the backup plan. Yes, he's a flake. No, he's not ready. Why is it all about what he wants, what he needs, and what he's ready for? Don't you think your want and needs, and the type of relationship you want, matter too? Why don't you think you deserve better than this?


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## Fenix

Is this really a question? 

Cut him loose! You just got out of a marriage. The last thing you need is a drama filled relationship...of any sort. George is bad news. Why even second guess it?

And yeah, it is better being alone than in a bad relationship. However, there are many, many guys out there and many good relationships to be had. This is just not one.


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## Catherine602

I have friends who are dating now. Here as a few tips. Beware of anyone who sweeps you off your feet. If they promise a lot too early, run. Anyone stupid enough to commit to a relationship with someone they don't know, is not right in the head. 

Don't be in a hurry. You'll meet someone who is a match but not right away. Don't look at every relationship as a potential long term commitment. Plan to date at lest 10 men so that you fix your picker. You get to know what you want and to look for red flags. 

You were right about this man 10 room mates means that he is immature and has failed to accomplish goals. No matter what they are, a man who has self respect has goals that he is working towards. 

You have not dated in a while so you need to read about relationships and men. You need to decode their behavior. Find a few books on dating. Have standards and don't compromise them. You don't want a loser.

Be patient, desperation pushes good men away. Any sensible person approached relationships with caution. People tell you what they are looking for within the first few dates. Believe them. If you don't want the same, move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy

Drama is not a plus in any relationship, much less in dating. Anything that seriously impedes developing a strong and commited relationship is rarely worth tolerating. Sometimes it's just timing, but that's still a deal-breaker.

If the drama and complications became too great, I'd just move on - just as I would for any newly discovered deal-breaker issue or significant incompatibility.

To find a great match, I had to screen hundreds of possibilities, meet/date 50 of them, and focus on a handful (not all at once, usually!) to find one.


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## hope4family

He is just not that into you. 

You divorced hopefully because you couldn't tolerate this bull any more. 

There are 3,499,999,998 men approx left to go. I like those odds for you better.


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## hope4family

Ya'know what, scratch me off the list. Makes your search a little easier.


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## vi_bride04

I am going through a similar situation with a guy I met in Feb. 

At this point we are only going to be friends(maybe not really even that) since I have made what I am looking for clear and his actions have failed to produce. And yes, there is an ex in the picture somewhat. 

Whos got time for stuff like this?


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## nice777guy

But this isn't High School anymore either.

Love the dating profiles that state they don't want any "drama."

I'm 42, divorced and have 2 kids. At this age, if you don't have at least a little drama, you may have been doing something wrong.


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## hope4family

nice777guy said:


> But this isn't High School anymore either.
> 
> Love the dating profiles that state they don't want any "drama."
> 
> I'm 42, divorced and have 2 kids. At this age, if you don't have at least a little drama, you may have been doing something wrong.


On a side note I don't know what other people are thinking. 

To me drama is don't bring a 3rd party into our relationship. If you have an ex-wife you share custody and they bring drama. Well I can deal with that. I got a crazy ex too, we can swap stories while eating Peanut butter M&M's.


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## 3Xnocharm

George is a waste of time, tell him to hit the bricks!


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## bravenewworld

Thanks for the honest feedback. For a while, it was just hooking up but somehow feelings got involved. Damn you feelings! ::shakes fist:: I know the healthiest thing for me is to move on. 

I really don't feel like having "the talk" with him and think I'm just going to start distancing myself. Neither of us have reached out to the other for a few days so I hope the radio silence continues and the relationship (or lack thereof) just naturally fades away. 

If he does reach out I'm going to be polite but just say I'm busy focusing on continuing to get my life together and being with my family/friends. Which is the truth. I don't feel like making some big "I don't wanna see you" production when we aren't even exclusively dating.


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## bravenewworld

nice777guy said:


> Do you enjoy spending time with him? More often than not?


I do enjoy spending time with him. He has a lot of good qualities and brings out a lot of good qualities in me. We do a lot of surfing, paddle boarding, etc. which I enjoy and don't have too many other friends that do. He also can be very thoughtful, making sure he has all my fav food stocked when I visit, letting me bring my dog over when I spend the night, etc. 

The above is what makes it so hard. It's kind of like when you eat a delicious meal but it's too rich and winds up making your stomach hurt. Even though you might enjoy the food, eventually you don't want to eat it anymore and deal with the painful aftermath. 

He recently told me he's "all messed up" and while I have some baggage (aka life experience) I don't feel messed up in the least.


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## bravenewworld

Catherine602 said:


> You have not dated in a while so you need to read about relationships and men. You need to decode their behavior. Find a few books on dating. Have standards and don't compromise them. You don't want a loser.
> 
> Be patient, desperation pushes good men away.* Any sensible person approached relationships with caution.* People tell you what they are looking for within the first few dates. Believe them. If you don't want the same, move on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The above really stuck out to me - within the first month or two of meeting he was pushing for me to visit his family out of state. Which was one of the reasons I ended things the first time. Things just seemed to be moving too fast. 

Like I said - round 2 he aggressively started pursuing me. Took me out to a big event on the the first reconnecting date and showed up with a bunch of presents, helped me finish a big project I was working on, etc. And silly little slightly lonely me felt so flattered I opened my heart up just to get burned….. 

But as Bob Dylan said, "Don't Think Twice, It's Alright." Actually the lyrics to that song pretty much encompass how I feel about this entire situation. Live and learn.


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## bravenewworld

vi_bride04 said:


> I am going through a similar situation with a guy I met in Feb.
> 
> At this point we are only going to be friends(maybe not really even that) since I have made what I am looking for clear and his actions have failed to produce. And yes, there is an ex in the picture somewhat.
> 
> Whos got time for stuff like this?


Agree. Look, being divorced myself I'm not looking for perfection and the white picket fence, but I am looking for a certain level of maturity, respect, and emotional availability. 

It's very frustrating when someone presents themselves as one way then begins to actively regress whenever you attempt to be vulnerable and move things forward. 

Feels like some men (and women too) love the chase but disdain the catch…….


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## bravenewworld

2galsmom said:


> When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.
> 
> He has shown you and you know it is over.
> 
> She is the love of my life, no wait, she is with someone else, no you can have this relationship be whatever you want = *anxious attachment
> *
> How do you get into a BAD relationship, the path of "Well he isn't perfect, I am not perfect, I will MAKE it work with this man that one minute was all about me, then he was all about the love of his life which was not me, but now he is back because he got dumped and well he doesn't want regrets, I will talk myself into this and work at this relationship . . ."
> 
> No way.
> 
> BILLIONS of men.
> 
> Good bye George, we wish you well.


Looked up the term "anxious attachment" and, wow, 2Gals, this is exactly what's going on. Are you a psychologist? Just curious because this is so on the nose and really explains other situations I hadn't posted about. 

It's interesting, knowledge really is power. I feel so much "lighter" now that I have a definition and understanding of the behavior itself. I've also learned this is not something I want in a partner. 

And yes, goodbye George. I truly do wish you well.

Ps. Forbes article was great too! Going to work on implementing these behaviors more.


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## poppyseed

Hi

From my point of view, it's essential that you both know what you want e.g. goals at the start. 

I have known someone/a woman who dedicated herself nearly for the past 3 years to a man who was only interested in a casual relationship/fun (and that was a clear pretext in their "relationship"). Women do have a tendency to end up with a "project" as generous as we are underneath. This woman got bitter and twisted towards the end as she "believed" the relationship was getting "real" well beyond fun and sex. Because sex was so great and he kept going back to her, she started to believe he was in love with her and he loved her. He was already involved in someone else. 

I'm inclined to say that a lot men may want romance and regular sex without any commitments (who wouldn't want such a convenient casual "relationship"?) particularly if you are young and beautiful. But that does not mean he "feels" you are special enough to want to make a commitment.

From what you explain, he did try to make the relationship into a more exclusive one by suggesting to introduce you to his parents etc. It sounds as if he did try to accommodate your needs as he liked you so much and you were good to him.

You say your relationship wasn't exclusive to begin with. Once you start having regular sex with someone you got to know well, you get attached emotionally and then you may start expecting things more e.g. a monogamous relationship for example. This situation can be tricky and seriously hit or miss if you didn't read his action correctly and wanting for things which aren't realistic. 

Hope you have far better luck next time (I'm sure you will) xx


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## Cooper

How could "drama" in a new relationship be worth it? Actually this relationship isn't new, it's round two.

OP you just need to get logical about this, you two have dated, there are things you like about him, but there are also large red flags flapping in the wind. So why keep trying? That's the thing about dating, it's an experiment to see if you connect and share life philosophies, obviously you have different outlooks. Don't argue with the facts, you know darn well this guy will not make you happy, cross him off the list and give one of the other 4 billion guys in the world a chance.


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## Jellybeans

bravenewworld said:


> The above really stuck out to me - within the first month or two of meeting he was pushing for me to visit his family out of state. Which was one of the reasons I ended things the first time. Things just seemed to be moving too fast.
> 
> Like I said - round 2 he aggressively started pursuing me. Took me out to a big event on the the first reconnecting date and showed up with a bunch of presents, helped me finish a big project I was working on, etc. And silly little slightly lonely me felt so flattered I opened my heart up just to get burned…..


He's one of those types that is SUPER INTO whoever he's dating and then someone from his past shows up and gets all confused. I would avoid. He's not emotionally healthy enough to be available (which he told you). 

It's a red flag when someone wants too much too fast. Massive red flag.


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## SamuraiJack

Its been my experience that if there is any significant amount of drama in the first six months...there will be much more later on.

People who "push" too hard usually are trying to address their own needs rather than create a relationship.


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## Hardtohandle

nice777guy said:


> But this isn't High School anymore either.
> 
> Love the dating profiles that state they don't want any "drama."
> 
> I'm 42, divorced and have 2 kids. At this age, if you don't have at least a little drama, you may have been doing something wrong.


I agree here.. 

At this stage in the game in your 40s at least, I think *EVERYONE* is going to have issues.. 

Why is that man or woman never married and never had kids ? Is there truly something wrong with them ? I don't know.. But I see that as a personal *red flag* that everyone talks about. 

I am sure there are many men and women here who are divorced that never had kids for *WHATEVER* reason. Who am I to judge until I speak with them one on one. Personally I know a coworker who is divorced and could not have children but always wanted them and thought about adopting but things fell through for her with her marriage. 

But yes again I start to wonder Single for 40 years *(okay lets say 20 because no one starts dating at age 1)*. But again do you mean to tell me that in 20 years time you have not found a single person to love long enough to be with them for a significant amount of time. I am using dating site profile answers to base my comments. POF has a longest relationship and I see some are noted at 1 year sometimes. 

So again I wonder in her 40s.. Never married, Never had kids.. Is this woman that selfish ? I don't know ? But at this stage in the game, at this point in my life I come with some preconceived notions. 

To me, I start to think. I wanted to be married and be with someone, so I did.. I wanted to have kids even though I was scared sh1tless, so I did.. After having one child I wanted to have another with my wife, so I did *( it took 3 years of us trying to get the 2nd child )*.. I knew I didn't want anymore kids, so I elected to have surgery months after my 2nd child was born. 

But now comes this person who had zero commitment and responsibilities.. Is this person a flake, shallow and selfish ? I don't know until I date them and feel them out. But assuming they are not, it doesn't mean they will grasp what it is to have kids and be responsible for them. Again I don't know.. I can only hope and relate that they can and love my kids as much as I do somehow or at least just grow to love them..

Again these dam *Red Flags*.

I am far from perfect and I am fvcked up in my own ways.. Yes there are times I feel it might be better to wait to see if my ex wife wakes up and realizes we are all jerkoffs and a$$holes but at least she knew what she was getting with me. Sometimes maybe someone needs to go to the other side and see for themselves the grass isn't greener and now comes back with a clear understanding it really is all the same sh1t.. But then I realize its me giving up and not wanting any change.

Look much of the advice here is great, but sometimes I think this word *Red Flag* is tossed around a little too much as an excuse to drop anyone and anything from your life that gives you some sort of discomfort or change..

So my advice to the OP.. 

If you consider yourself an intelligent person, then you know what's right and wrong for you.. Make the mistake and learn from it.. 

But nothing worth having is always going be easy.. Put up the good fight and if it just doesn't work out then move on.. Is there some rush or fire ? No.. Move in, Move out if it doesn't work.. Its life.. Life isn't a perfect box..


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## Jellybeans

Yes, everyone does have baggage and that is a LIFE fact.

With that said, when you are with a man who tells you he is not emotionally available to have a relationship with you, then you should step right off the dating ride. Especially when he previously dumped you to go back to his ex...


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## bravenewworld

Jellybeans said:


> Yes, everyone does have baggage and that is a LIFE fact.
> 
> With that said, when you are with a man who tells you he is not emotionally available to have a relationship with you, then you should step right off the dating ride. Especially when he previously dumped you to go back to his ex...


It's true about the baggage - I just don't believe our baggage is compatible. For example, I divorced the person who treated me like crap and actively worked on moving on. The only he's actively working on I feel like is obsessing over her. 

I actually broke up with him the first time - things were moving too fast and I found him a little overwhelming. Very intense, and at the same time - distant. Odd combo. The anxious attachment explains a lot of it. 

After I broke up with him he chased after the ex, and even sent me an email apologizing for our relationship ending by saying he didn't do right by me as he was into her the entire time. 

This time around he seemed different - like he had changed and matured a bit. At least that's how he presented himself in the beginning….

Kind of blaming myself for getting sucked back in. He is a bit younger than myself and very good looking - six pack abs and all that. I never considered myself shallow but in this case I have to admit that played a part.


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## Hardtohandle

Jellybeans said:


> Yes, everyone does have baggage and that is a LIFE fact.
> 
> With that said, when you are with a man who tells you he is not emotionally available to have a relationship with you, then you should step right off the dating ride. Especially when he previously dumped you to go back to his ex...


Can't argue this one.

I have said this though.. Look I have some issues.. I am trying very hard to fix them.. I do have some trust issues and sometimes they overwhelm me. Sometimes I realize it and sometimes sadly I don't until its too late and we are fighting.. Its not my intent to cause you any issues or fight.. Again I am learning to deal with these demons. 

I also wanted to add that sometimes typing this sh1t out is a pain in the ass and trying to convey your thoughts to paper just don't come out right.. Sometimes I notice I think more than I actually typed.. Basically my mind is going faster than my fingers can type.

Nutshell you can't convey every little nuance that is going on in a relationship. 

One day we will have video and audio forums..


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## bravenewworld

Hardtohandle said:


> Can't argue this one.
> 
> I have said this though.. Look I have some issues.. I am trying very hard to fix them.. I do have some trust issues and sometimes they overwhelm me. Sometimes I realize it and sometimes sadly I don't until its too late and we are fighting.. Its not my intent to cause you any issues or fight.. Again I am learning to deal with these demons.


I think we're similar H2H in the sense that we actually prefer to take some risk and see how things play out. When I was a kid learning to ride a bike some of my friends would practice on the grass so if they fell it wouldn't hurt too much. Meanwhile, I was the kid zipping around the neighborhood streets/sidewalks with band-aids all over my legs. But until I was proficient, I never rode out into heavy traffic. 

My heart is very precious but at the same time I don't want to enclose it in "break in case of emergency" glass case. To me, that wouldn't feel like living on my own terms. 

Practically speaking, this is probably not going to be the last guy to disappoint me and hurt my feelings. But that's ok. My heart is not broken, and while it stings a bit I know I can shake myself off and move on. Hell, honestly, after some time passes I think we could even be legit friends.


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## Hardtohandle

bravenewworld said:


> I think we're similar H2H in the sense that we actually prefer to take some risk and see how things play out. When I was a kid learning to ride a bike some of my friends would practice on the grass so if they fell it wouldn't hurt too much. Meanwhile, I was the kid zipping around the neighborhood streets/sidewalks with band-aids all over my legs. But until I was proficient, I never rode out into heavy traffic.
> 
> My heart is very precious but at the same time I don't want to enclose it in "break in case of emergency" glass case. To me, that wouldn't feel like living on my own terms.
> 
> Practically speaking, this is probably not going to be the last guy to disappoint me and hurt my feelings. But that's ok. My heart is not broken, and while it stings a bit I know I can shake myself off and move on. Hell, honestly, after some time passes I think we could even be legit friends.


Honestly I was always calculating and thinking things through and looking at all the angles. I think its the cop in me. 

It not until my divorce that I realized that no amount of planning is going to help you sometimes and having a plan is nice and knowing where you want to go is great, but sometimes you have to throw caution to the wind.. 

I waited 5 years before I married my ex.. I did all the right thing.. Put her through school. Paid for the wedding but let her plan it. 

Planned together when to have kids.. 

My friend met his wife on match.com.. They dated 8 months and decided they were going to get married.. He then found out he knocked her up.. So the only difference is they got married sooner, they did it next month instead of 3 months later.. 

Today they are married longer then I was.. They are always broke and scrapping coin together to pay bills. I have been broke, but worked my way out of that situation. Before my Ex left we had no issue of money. Today even without her income I still have no issues and I am raising my 2 boys without her help..

So all my planning and thinking ahead means sh1t.. I've learned its a good *GUIDE*, but not written in stone.. 

As hard as it is, I am trying very hard to go against the grain a bit..


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## bravenewworld

2galsmom said:


> This time I shall make better mistakes.


This needs to be in needlepoint above my bedroom set.


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## bravenewworld

Heard another phrase today I thought y'all would appreciate:

"If someone has too many issues - cancel your subscription."


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## ne9907

bravenewworld said:


> Been off the boards for a bit while I cleared up some legal matters…the good news is the paperwork was finally stamped and I am officially DIVORCED! The negative emotional triggers regarding my marriage went from multiple times a day to maybe 2x per month. I'm now about fifteen months out from when we first separated.
> 
> I feel like I've done the hard work to move on with my life, but putting myself out there with others again has been hard. I would like the affection and companionship that comes with a committed relationship (as I've discovered I'm a crappy multi-dater) but I seem to be bad at cultivating one.
> 
> Current situation: Reconnected about two months ago with one of the first people I dated after separating with my ex, a guy named George. After we reconnected, he pursued me very aggressively initially - telling me how beautiful I am, how the relationship could be whatever I wanted it to be, taking me out on really nice dates, etc. etc. He even got his own apartment after I said I thought he was a little too old to have six roommates. (Seriously, six roommates. It was like a frat house. And no, he is not financially destitute.)
> 
> During the time we weren't talking, he apparently decided his previous ex girlfriend was the "love of his life" and chased after her. She wound up turning him down for another guy, which infuriated him. Now he says he is "working through his issues" but unable to commit and be completely emotionally present with me. This made me really upset and I attempted to break it off (whatever "it" is, as we are not exclusive) He promised to let go of her ghost, so to speak, and prioritize developing a relationship with me.
> 
> Since this, the relationship is moving backward. The sex has dwindled (erection issues), he calls/texts less, he won't even french kiss me anymore because "It's been a while" and "he's not used to it." However, he assures me that will change with time. :roll eyes:
> 
> It's very frustrating for me, because one second he's taking me furniture shopping to make sure we both fit on his new couch when we spoon, then the next second I see him liking his ex's pictures on FB or receiving a text message from her. He swears up and down they aren't talking, but I find that hard to believe.
> 
> His bottom line is "he's been honest with me" and if I stop dating him he'll "forever regret having missed out on a great opportunity." He also tells me moving has been stressful and that's why he's been distant.
> 
> Having my own emotional baggage, (but not nearly as much IMHO) is this what I can expect now that I'm older and dating? The last time I did the dating thing I was in my late teens/very early twenties and things didn't seem so complicated.
> 
> Last night I had a dream I came in second place in a pie eating contest….seemed like a metaphor for this situation. I feel like I'm playing second fiddle to an ex who lives out of state. He only saw her maybe 2-3x per year during the three years they were together. Doesn't make sense.
> 
> This entire situation has been causing me a lot of stress as of late. Maybe it's better just to be alone……...


/wave
No, it isnt worth it


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## Deejo

*Re: Re: New Relationship Drama - Is it worth it?*



bravenewworld said:


> It's true about the baggage - I just don't believe our baggage is compatible. For example, I divorced the person who treated me like crap and actively worked on moving on. The only he's actively working on I feel like is obsessing over her.
> 
> I actually broke up with him the first time - things were moving too fast and I found him a little overwhelming. Very intense, and at the same time - distant. Odd combo. The anxious attachment explains a lot of it.
> 
> After I broke up with him he chased after the ex, and even sent me an email apologizing for our relationship ending by saying he didn't do right by me as he was into her the entire time.
> 
> This time around he seemed different - like he had changed and matured a bit. At least that's how he presented himself in the beginning….
> 
> Kind of blaming myself for getting sucked back in. He is a bit younger than myself and very good looking - six pack abs and all that. I never considered myself shallow but in this case I have to admit that played a part.


Don't be hard on yourself. After all, you had some enjoyable times with the six pack.

Dude sounds like a man-boy. I imagine that kind of guy can be terrific fun to hang out and roll around with. But that's likely the extent of it.

Learning experiences dear. You just had one. And in the scheme of things it doesn't sound like it was all that awful.

I have made the observation that many folks recently (2 yrs or less) out of a marriage or LTR, tend to have a very narrow, or at least very specific set of expectations about what constitutes a relationship. 

A relationship gets to be whatever you choose to make it. 

Light and breezy, hot and heavy, serious, silly, aloof ... whatever

Only question you ever really need to focus on is, 'Am I content with this?'

If the relationship brings with it more frustration and frowns than satisfaction and smiles, it's probably time to change the nature of the relationship. 

A 'good' relationship doesn't have to necessarily be a long term relationship. As most of us are testimony to.


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## Cooper

Deejo said:


> Don't be hard on yourself. After all, you had some enjoyable times with the six pack.
> 
> Dude sounds like a man-boy. I imagine that kind of guy can be terrific fun to hang out and roll around with. But that's likely the extent of it.
> 
> Learning experiences dear. You just had one. And in the scheme of things it doesn't sound like it was all that awful.
> 
> I have made the observation that many folks recently (2 yrs or less) out of a marriage or LTR, tend to have a very narrow, or at least very specific set of expectations about what constitutes a relationship.
> 
> A relationship gets to be whatever you choose to make it.
> 
> Light and breezy, hot and heavy, serious, silly, aloof ... whatever
> 
> Only question you ever really need to focus on is, 'Am I content with this?'
> 
> If the relationship brings with it more frustration and frowns than satisfaction and smiles, it's probably time to change the nature of the relationship.
> 
> A 'good' relationship doesn't have to necessarily be a long term relationship. As most of us are testimony to.



Such a sensible philosophy and I agree 100%. Every relationship doesn't need to focused on a life long commitment, some can be just for the fun of it.


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## bravenewworld

Deejo said:


> Don't be hard on yourself. After all, you had some enjoyable times with the six pack.
> 
> Dude sounds like a man-boy. I imagine that kind of guy can be terrific fun to hang out and roll around with. But that's likely the extent of it.
> 
> Learning experiences dear. You just had one. And in the scheme of things it doesn't sound like it was all that awful.
> 
> I have made the observation that many folks recently (2 yrs or less) out of a marriage or LTR, tend to have a very narrow, or at least very specific set of expectations about what constitutes a relationship.
> 
> A relationship gets to be whatever you choose to make it.
> 
> Light and breezy, hot and heavy, serious, silly, aloof ... whatever
> 
> Only question you ever really need to focus on is, 'Am I content with this?'
> 
> If the relationship brings with it more frustration and frowns than satisfaction and smiles, it's probably time to change the nature of the relationship.
> 
> A 'good' relationship doesn't have to necessarily be a long term relationship. As most of us are testimony to.


Thanks Deejo for the wise words. I am trying to treat myself a bit more gently. I tend to be very hard on myself for not always making the "perfect" or "best" decision. Whatever the hell that means. And yes I do suspect I've become a bit more narrow-minded in regards to relationships. I need to take things less seriously. 

Regarding George - unfortunately there has been an upsetting conclusion. About a five days ago he called me just to say he was getting over his ex and looking forward to us being together again. He also told me he was working on a job out of state and he would call me when he got back. Since then we haven't conversed. 

A friend just texted me a video tonight - George and his ex out at a bar in our city. It was then I knew he wasn't out of state, he had bought his ex a plane ticket and she was visiting. Honestly, he must have the worst luck ever because the friend who spotted him NEVER goes out to bars. I've always known I have angels looking out for me. 

I called him - no response. He always answers, but couldn't because he was out with her. I texted him that I knew he wasn't "out of state" and no longer cared to associate with him as he lacks personal integrity. I also said I wished he would have had the decency and courage to be honest with me and because he wasn't we could not talk or be friends. And that it was his loss, not mine. 

It wasn't anything too crazy. Two short text messages total and I didn't bother getting heated or delivering personal insults. That's just not me and he's not worth it. 

Really wish it hadn't ended with lying and gross behavior though. Caused a big trigger regarding my issues of being cheated on by my ex. 

My counselor retired two months ago and I'm supposed to be matched with someone new in a few weeks. Looking forward to exploring why I choose and attract these types of low character men into my life. I knew it wasn't going to last, but I honestly didn't think he was the total scumbag he is. So sad and embarrassing when adults lie like that. What are they afraid of?


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## poppyseed

Deejo said:


> Dude sounds like a man-boy. I imagine that kind of guy can be terrific *fun to hang out and roll around with. But that's likely the extent of it.*
> 
> I have made the observation that many folks recently (2 yrs or less) out of a marriage or LTR, tend to have a very narrow, or at least very specific set of expectations about what constitutes a relationship.
> 
> Only question you ever really need to focus on is, 'Am I content with this?'
> 
> If the relationship brings with it more frustration and frowns than satisfaction and smiles, it's probably time to change the nature of the relationship.
> 
> A 'good' relationship doesn't have to necessarily be a long term relationship. As most of us are testimony to.


Hi Deejo

I like that. I really liked what you wrote. I shared what you said with a close friend of mine yesterday.

Best Rgds to you.


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## Deejo

You handled that like a boss.

Not kidding. That is a picture perfect way to deal with unacceptable behavior and put a stake in an uncertain relationship.

Whenever I give dating advice, I often talk about being a 'good ender'. I don't mean to minimize that the discovery hurt you, but the way you handled it was classy, firm, and admirable.

I usually try to base my commentary in experience. I should have couched my previous 'people recently out of marriage' comment as my having been a participant in it.

I just no longer worry about the arc of a relationship. Can't tell you how liberating it is. I value the relationship for what it is, for however long it lasts.

My threshold for a 'keeper' is MUCH higher than it would have been 20 years ago. And all of the factors that go into that evaluation have as much to do with me and my lifestyle as it does how my partner may look, or behave.

There just seems to be more moving parts to a relationship as we mature, and hopefully grow wiser.



bravenewworld said:


> Thanks Deejo for the wise words. I am trying to treat myself a bit more gently. I tend to be very hard on myself for not always making the "perfect" or "best" decision. Whatever the hell that means. And yes I do suspect I've become a bit more narrow-minded in regards to relationships. I need to take things less seriously.
> 
> Regarding George - unfortunately there has been an upsetting conclusion. About a five days ago he called me just to say he was getting over his ex and looking forward to us being together again. He also told me he was working on a job out of state and he would call me when he got back. Since then we haven't conversed.
> 
> A friend just texted me a video tonight - George and his ex out at a bar in our city. It was then I knew he wasn't out of state, he had bought his ex a plane ticket and she was visiting. Honestly, he must have the worst luck ever because the friend who spotted him NEVER goes out to bars. I've always known I have angels looking out for me.
> 
> I called him - no response. He always answers, but couldn't because he was out with her. I texted him that I knew he wasn't "out of state" and no longer cared to associate with him as he lacks personal integrity. I also said I wished he would have had the decency and courage to be honest with me and because he wasn't we could not talk or be friends. And that it was his loss, not mine.
> 
> It wasn't anything too crazy. Two short text messages total and I didn't bother getting heated or delivering personal insults. That's just not me and he's not worth it.
> 
> Really wish it hadn't ended with lying and gross behavior though. Caused a big trigger regarding my issues of being cheated on by my ex.
> 
> My counselor retired two months ago and I'm supposed to be matched with someone new in a few weeks. Looking forward to exploring why I choose and attract these types of low character men into my life. I knew it wasn't going to last, but I honestly didn't think he was the total scumbag he is. So sad and embarrassing when adults lie like that. What are they afraid of?


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## Deejo

poppyseed said:


> Hi Deejo
> 
> I like that. I really liked what you wrote. I shared what you said with a close friend of mine yesterday.
> 
> Best Rgds to you.


And to be clear, even with that assessment, it doesn't mean a man is a BAD man. It just means that he isn't likely to meet your needs or fit your criteria over the long term.

And again, being very honest here, I say that ... as it has become blatantly apparent to me, that I am that guy.

I'm not a man-boy, but my lifestyle with work and my children is simply not going to align with those looking for someone who is going to be consistently available during the week and willing to spend weekends shuttling kids (someone elses) around to events. 

Know thy self. And be good at being who you are.


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## indiecat

I suppose the lesson is that any person that is still liking things on their supposedly ex's FB, or texting them is definitely not over that person. 

Good thing you didn't invest any more time with him. 

He was on the fence.


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## bravenewworld

Deejo said:


> You handled that like a boss.
> 
> Not kidding. That is a picture perfect way to deal with unacceptable behavior and put a stake in an uncertain relationship.
> 
> Whenever I give dating advice, I often talk about being a 'good ender'. I don't mean to minimize that the discovery hurt you, but the way you handled it was classy, firm, and admirable.
> 
> I usually try to base my commentary in experience. I should have couched my previous 'people recently out of marriage' comment as my having been a participant in it.
> 
> I just no longer worry about the arc of a relationship. Can't tell you how liberating it is. I value the relationship for what it is, for however long it lasts.
> 
> My threshold for a 'keeper' is MUCH higher than it would have been 20 years ago. And all of the factors that go into that evaluation have as much to do with me and my lifestyle as it does how my partner may look, or behave.
> 
> There just seems to be more moving parts to a relationship as we mature, and hopefully grow wiser.


Appreciate the feedback Deejo. On the boards I find myself agreeing with a lot of your posts and it seems like you have moved on well. I am trying to do the same. 

One of the things I've been working on in therapy is my temper, so I am proud I did not lose it. There is some satisfaction in calling someone "a lying piece of $hit" when it's the truth - BUT I made a promise to myself I was never going to sling personal insults or direct profanity at someone in anger again. It always makes me feel terrible afterward, even when there is truth behind it. 

Took me a while to learn that it was not a sign of "weakness" to handle things in a less emotional/antagonistic way. In fact, it is me taking my power back! No one, including George, can make me lose control or behave in a way that is unbecoming of someone of my character. This is my new way of looking at it. 

Actually feeling pretty good today. Before therapy, TAM, and my Co-Dependents Anonymous group this would have felt like I got into a motorcycle accident without a helmet. Now, it feels like I fell off my bicycle and scraped my knee. Big improvement. 

Funny development, a while back George promised to give me a referral to a friend of his offering a job in my field. Of course, he never did. 

However, another friend thought of me regarding the SAME job and did provide a referral. And this person is a much better referral than George. Ah, the universe works in mysterious ways!


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## bravenewworld

indiecat said:


> *I suppose the lesson is that any person that is still liking things on their supposedly ex's FB, or texting them is definitely not over that person. *
> 
> Good thing you didn't invest any more time with him.
> 
> He was on the fence.


Yes, this x1000. If a person has truly moved on I think they refrain from engaging with their ex frequently unless there are children involved. 

At the end of the day, he's the one who has to look at himself in the mirror. I might have gotten played but I'm glad I treated him with honesty and respect, even though he did nothing to deserve it. That's how I roll. Moving on!


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## indiecat

You did nothing wrong, and that is what you have to remember.


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## Deejo

2galsmom said:


> If you want to date choose someone who makes you feel good!


Can't argue with that.


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## bravenewworld

My divorce was unique in the sense that my husband and I never saw each other or talked again after deciding it was over. All communication went through our respective attorneys. 

That said, George and I work in a similar industry and I will probably see him around at networking events. How should I approach this demeanor wise? I would do the freeze-out and ignore but that seems rude at a networking function. I don't want other people forming a weird opinion of me based on if or how I interact with him. Personal life, who cares, but this is work stuff. 

I was thinking of going with the polite but cool attitude I use with this one bank teller I don't like. She's rude to all the elderly in line.


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## EleGirl

bravenewworld said:


> My divorce was unique in the sense that my husband and I never saw each other or talked again after deciding it was over. All communication went through our respective attorneys.
> 
> That said, George and I work in a similar industry and I will probably see him around at networking events. How should I approach this demeanor wise? I would do the freeze-out and ignore but that seems rude at a networking function. I don't want other people forming a weird opinion of me based on if or how I interact with him. Personal life, who cares, but this is work stuff.
> 
> *I was thinking of going with the polite but cool attitude *I use with this one bank teller I don't like. She's rude to all the elderly in line.


Yep that's it.


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## COguy

Not to act like your counselor but if you have codependency issues and have a problem multi-dating, and you're still with THIS guy, that's a pretty big red flag.

He's got issues written all over him, stuff that would be a huge turnoff for someone else you are attracted to. He came on major strong, that's a sign of someone with a personality disorder.

I found multi-dating was a great way to protect myself, because I wasn't feeling obligated to rush things. In fact, I couldn't, because I had other things to do. The most I could afford out of my schedule was a date a week, so I had no ability to get suckered into someone that wanted to escalate really fast.


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## nice777guy

COguy said:


> Not to act like your counselor but if you have codependency issues and have a problem multi-dating, and you're still with THIS guy, that's a pretty big red flag.
> 
> He's got issues written all over him, stuff that would be a huge turnoff for someone else you are attracted to. He came on major strong, that's a sign of someone with a personality disorder.
> 
> I found multi-dating was a great way to protect myself, because I wasn't feeling obligated to rush things. In fact, I couldn't, because I had other things to do. The most I could afford out of my schedule was a date a week, so I had no ability to get suckered into someone that wanted to escalate really fast.


Question - if you were multi-dating 3 women - is that one date a week per woman - or just one date per week?


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## COguy

nice777guy said:


> Question - if you were multi-dating 3 women - is that one date a week per woman - or just one date per week?


For me? It ranged from 2-6 girls. 6 was way too much, sweet spot was 3.

When it was 6 I was doing a date almost every day, sometimes 2. Like I said that was too much, I felt like I couldn't relax (that realization was therapy, I was treating dating like an obligation). When I cut back to 3 I was doing on average a date a week with each. That gave me pretty ample free time. The best part for me is that it forced me not to put anyone on a pedestal and I was much more focused on what I was getting out of it rather than doing that thing I do where I try to be someone's "perfect catch." I mean when you're dating 3 people, you by nature put out this aura like, "What are you doing for me? I got other stuff to do so if you aren't worth my time I'd rather go." Sounds douchey but it's exactly what I needed.


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## bravenewworld

COguy said:


> Not to act like your counselor but if you have codependency issues and have a problem multi-dating, and you're still with THIS guy, that's a pretty big red flag.
> 
> He's got issues written all over him, stuff that would be a huge turnoff for someone else you are attracted to. He came on major strong, that's a sign of someone with a personality disorder.
> 
> I found multi-dating was a great way to protect myself, because I wasn't feeling obligated to rush things. In fact, I couldn't, because I had other things to do. The most I could afford out of my schedule was a date a week, so I had no ability to get suckered into someone that wanted to escalate really fast.


He was the first guy I met and dated post D. Lasted a little under 2 months total and I ended it when I didn't like his behavior. Haven't talked to him since. Dating is a trial and error thing, and I feel good about how I handled it. Totally agree I was a little too eager for his fawning over me and compliments. Moving forward I will think of that behavior differently. He wasn't abusive or anything but definitely had a personality disorder. His problem, and not mine! 

Multi-dating is I think awesome and healthy, I just don't have time for it! Even if you are not serious about any one person it takes up a lot of physical time and mental energy. Right now preferring to lay low and only engage with people where I feel a true spark. Been flying solo the past month and am loving it!


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## COGypsy

bravenewworld said:


> Multi-dating is I think awesome and healthy, I just don't have time for it! *Even if you are not serious about any one person it takes up a lot of physical time and mental energy.* Right now preferring to lay low and only engage with people where I feel a true spark. Been flying solo the past month and am loving it!


This is curious to me. What different time and energy does it take to date? I've never seen it that way. I go out most nights anyway to meet friends for dinner, see a show, go do a class of some kind or whatever. It doesn't take much more time to schedule something with a date. What different time and energy goes into dating as opposed to regular social time? To me, it's much harder if the date goes well to incorporate someone new into my calendar right away. I've always figured though that if that weren't a challenge for us both, it's probably not a good match!


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## Wolf1974

The saying goes....... Never make someone a priority who is only making you and option.


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## COguy

bravenewworld said:


> He was the first guy I met and dated post D. Lasted a little under 2 months total and I ended it when I didn't like his behavior. Haven't talked to him since. Dating is a trial and error thing, and I feel good about how I handled it. Totally agree I was a little too eager for his fawning over me and compliments. Moving forward I will think of that behavior differently. He wasn't abusive or anything but definitely had a personality disorder. His problem, and not mine!
> 
> Multi-dating is I think awesome and healthy, I just don't have time for it! Even if you are not serious about any one person it takes up a lot of physical time and mental energy. Right now preferring to lay low and only engage with people where I feel a true spark. Been flying solo the past month and am loving it!


Awesome! Great news. There are some great books on personality disorders, emotional vampires was a good one that got me thinking about all these behaviors differently.

Someone coming on too fast, too strong is probably the first indication that something is not right. Escalating and intensifying relationships is the #1 tool of PDs to get their meat hooks in. They want a really intense initial attachment so that you remember that in your brain while they are doing their voodoo on you later in the relationship.


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## bravenewworld

COGypsy said:


> This is curious to me. What different time and energy does it take to date? I've never seen it that way. I go out most nights anyway to meet friends for dinner, see a show, go do a class of some kind or whatever. It doesn't take much more time to schedule something with a date. What different time and energy goes into dating as opposed to regular social time? To me, it's much harder if the date goes well to incorporate someone new into my calendar right away. I've always figured though that if that weren't a challenge for us both, it's probably not a good match!


I think it's the difference between being an extrovert and an introvert. I find meeting new people in any social context much more draining than spending time with people where I have an established relationship. 

Multi-dating usually means meeting LOTS of new people for one on one time. For me that means extra time alone recharging my batteries. When I am out with friends I know well or maybe less well but we are in a group, the socializing itself tends to give me a recharge rather than draining me.


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## COGypsy

bravenewworld said:


> I think it's the difference between being an extrovert and an introvert. I find meeting new people in any social context much more draining than spending time with people where I have an established relationship.
> 
> Multi-dating usually means meeting LOTS of new people for one on one time. For me that means extra time alone recharging my batteries. When I am out with friends I know well or maybe less well but we are in a group, the socializing itself tends to give me a recharge rather than draining me.


That makes more sense. I've just always been puzzled when people say that. I recharge through social interaction of all kinds, so to me, dating is just hanging out with new people that I might want to see naked at some point. Or not. Usually not! LOL! I'm a pretty textbook extrovert though. I get pretty much all the alone time I need in the time it takes to sleep and shower. A bit of an exaggeration, but not much.


----------

