# Wife's Sexual Past Creating Stress



## DDDCanada

I recently married a wonderful woman and we are deeply in love. We are both in our 30s. For my entire life, I believed strongly in waiting for a special person to have sex. I always considered it a sacred act that bonds two people together. I was married in my mid-twenties and had never been with another woman prior to that. My first wife was unfaithful to me during our marriage which was devastating. However, I moved on and met my current wife who is an amazing woman. She treats me so well and is deeply in love with me as I am with her. We spoke about our past experiences and values at length. I told her I have only been with my first wife and we rarely had sex. She was shocked! She told me she didn't remember how many men she had been with but it was around 8 or 9. While this was difficult to accept based on my own beliefs, I tried to accept it and moved on. We discussed this issues many more times and finally she approached me a few months ago about her past. She mentioned that she had actually had sex with 24 men prior to me and she was disgusted with herself. She said she never thought someone with my values existed and never felt with me with any of the other men. This really devastated me because, throughout my adult life, I refrained from sex with women because I wanted to make it special with the right person. I often think of my wife with these other men and feel uncomfortable. I feel as though I've let myself down and wasted my own time refraining since the person I am with didn't feel the same as I did about sex. This issue has created a wedge between us and has really impacted our relationship. I really don't know what to do to move past this.

DDD


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## Trenton

You have a chance to show your wife that you love her regardless of her past sexual relationships. You can value that she felt comfortable to share this with you and happy that she vocalized regret at her past because she hadn't realized the likes of you existed.

She is basically saying if she could do a "do over" she would have met you, been faithful to you and been happy to explore sexual ecstasy with you alone for her entire life.

Take it as a huge compliment and get past it. Work on mutual sexual enjoyment and appreciating the love you have for one another.


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## DanF

She married you, didn't she?
I met a man years ago who just could not find a suitable girlfriend. He was in his mid 30's and wanted a woman in her mid 30's who had never been married and never had kids. He's still alone 20 years later.
Her past is her past, not yours.


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## DDDCanada

Trenton, thank you for reply. I understand and appreciate that I have had a huge impact on my wife's life. She has a heart of gold and is the most wonderful person I've ever known. I love her sincerity and sweetness. However, she is very naive when it comes to interacting with others and felt the need to give men sex in the past. It's just disappointing to think that she didn't have the self-respect to make better decisions for herself. I also wonder if her past experiences take away from what we share today.


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## Michelle27

In no way does her past experience take anything away from what you and she share. In fact, I would be willing to guess based on your comments about her and how you have impacted her life to mean that her past experience has actually made her appreciate a man like you even more.


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## Orion

DDDCanada said:


> I recently married a wonderful woman and we are deeply in love. We are both in our 30s. For my entire life, I believed strongly in waiting for a special person to have sex. I always considered it a sacred act that bonds two people together. I was married in my mid-twenties and had never been with another woman prior to that. My first wife was unfaithful to me during our marriage which was devastating. However, I moved on and met my current wife who is an amazing woman. She treats me so well and is deeply in love with me as I am with her. We spoke about our past experiences and values at length. I told her I have only been with my first wife and we rarely had sex. She was shocked! She told me she didn't remember how many men she had been with but it was around 8 or 9. While this was difficult to accept based on my own beliefs, I tried to accept it and moved on. We discussed this issues many more times and finally she approached me a few months ago about her past. She mentioned that she had actually had sex with 24 men prior to me and she was disgusted with herself. She said she never thought someone with my values existed and never felt with me with any of the other men. This really devastating me because, throughout my adult life, I refrained from sex with women because I wanted to make it special with the right person. I often think of my wife with these other men and feel uncomfortable. I feel as though I've let myself down and wasted my own time refraining since the person I am with didn't feel the same as I did about sex. This issue has created a wedge between us and has really impacted our relationship. I really don't know what to do to move past this.
> 
> DDD


Hey DDD,

I have a question. Are you upset that she had sex at all before you two married or that she has had sex with so many? I am not trying to be rough on you because I can understand that given your values, this situation can be distressing. I ask because it strikes me that a person wouldn't leave this to chance if it was really important to them. By this I mean that you would have made sure to find someone who shares this same value since it is a deal-breaker.

My issue would be with the fact that she lied. However, I do understand her trepidation about given the number. She is ashamed and does not want to look bad in your eyes.


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## DDDCanada

Michelle27, thank you for the kind and reassuring words.

Orion, thank you for the reply. Being in her 30s when we met, I had assumed that she had sex before we got together. When I learned of the number, I realized that her personality had a lot to do with it. She is naive and rather impulsive. I could see how she could get herself into situations where she didn't want sex to be the outcome. I accepted the initial number despite my concerns because of my intense feelings for her. I KNOW she is ashamed of herself and says she gets sick to her stomach when she thinks about it and how it has impacted us.


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## DDDCanada

The revised number of 24 concerns me more and the fact that she lied about it.


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## Trenton

She was embarrassed and felt ashamed but her coming to you with the truth says that she couldn't lie to you and was willing to face all the fallout from her lie and her past in order to continue with you in honesty.


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## Orion

DDDCanada said:


> Michelle27, thank you for the kind and reassuring words.
> 
> Orion, thank you for the reply. Being in her 30s when we met, I had assumed that she had sex before we got together. When I learned of the number, I realized that her personality had a lot to do with it. She is naive and rather impulsive. I could see how she could get herself into situations where she didn't want sex to be the outcome. I accepted the initial number despite my concerns because of my intense feelings for her. I KNOW she is ashamed of herself and says she gets sick to her stomach when she thinks about it and how it has impacted us.


DDD,

Though she did lie about the initial number, I think that it's good that she came clean to you. It must have been hard for her to carry the burden and guilt of that lie. I really do hope that you can get past it because she sounds like a good woman that would move a mountain for you. Not that this should play a role but I would wager that there are men on this site that would gladly take the "number" that concerns you if their wife would be as you have described yours. Just saying...


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## DDDCanada

Trenton, I truly appreciate honesty and prefer to know the truth. However, it doesn't take away the fact that she been with so many other people. How can she believe that sex is a sacred act between two people who consider each other special when she did not demonstrate that in her life? I had ample opportunities to be with women but stopped myself because I didn't think I could reconcile my values with those actions.


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## Trenton

She didn't value herself but you have helped her recognize this and she has changed.

Sex with you is sacred to her and that's what counts. She didn't know it until you came into her life. That is a dear and amazing thing.


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## DDDCanada

Michelle27, how does her past experiences make her appreciate my relationship with her more? Just curious to get your thoughts.


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## Fordsvt

Don't sweat it. You can't change the past either. It's not uncommon for people to have 20+ sexual partners these days. I've had 7 myself and that feels low to me.


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## PBear

Maybe try focusing more on her (and your) values SINCE you met, rather than before.

C


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## DDDCanada

I've tried to focus on things since we've been together. She made a lot of changes since we met as well. She decided to cut ties with any "friends" that she had been intimate with out of respect for me and our relationship. She claims to have stayed in touch with these people because it was the mature thing to do.


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## drdrfor

Your worries and concern and troubles about her past are a waste of time. Nothing you can do can change an iota of what has already happened. Your pressuring her about her past will only make her ex-wife number two.

Get over it or get out. You're expecting her to make you feel better about your own idiotic behaviour. It won't and can't happen. Grow up.


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## Bcando

Yesterday is "history"...Tomorrow is a "mystery"...Today is a "gift"..that is why it is called the "Present"...Live for what you both have today...you can't change the past...so enjoy your "GIFT" today..


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## WhereAmI

DDDCanada said:


> Trenton, I truly appreciate honesty and prefer to know the truth. However, it doesn't take away the fact that she been with so many other people. How can she believe that sex is a sacred act between two people who consider each other special when she did not demonstrate that in her life? I had ample opportunities to be with women but stopped myself because I didn't think I could reconcile my values with those actions.


Is there nothing you have had a change of heart on? I spent a good majority of my life running people over to get what I want. Now I'm far more interested in helping others and doing the right thing. That certainly doesn't mean that the new me is a lie. I've grown.

Your wife is a new woman. You have to accept the things you cannot change, and her past will always remain the same.


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## DDDCanada

drdrfor, why so aggressive? What aspect of my behaviour do you consider idiotic? I love my wife dearly and am looking for constructuve advice from people about a concern.


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## DDDCanada

WhereAmI, I have had a change of heart about certain things in life and have also grown because of them. I guess the issue of intimacy has always been a "hot button" for me because of how I viewed it. It's the one thing that I've always considered the glue that holds two people together.


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## JJG

DDDCanada said:


> How can she believe that sex is a sacred act between two people who consider each other special when she did not demonstrate that in her life?


Did your wife tell you that these were her values when you met/before you married? Or are you projecting your values on to her?

I do not think there is anything wrong with your wifes number of partners. She was a grown up unattached woman who enjoyed sex. She had every right to do exactly as she pleased. You are lucky that she loves you so much that she now wishes to give all of her sexual attention to you alone.


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## second timer

Okay I think I have a different take on this....


I met my second wife four years ago when she was 36. She is a beautiful woman that men often stare at and is educated, mature and articulate as well. I too was taken aback by her stories of one-night stands, contraction of herpes and even a threesome with two Marines in a jacuzzi all in the year prior to us meeting (she was going through a divorce). All in all she slept with at least a dozen younger men in that year, some married. I was very disturbed having come from a similar situation as you in my first marriage (we were together 13 years). 

After four years I have learned to embrace her experience and turn it into an asset. I'm secure in her love for me and have managed to make it a turn-on to picture her with all these men. You'll be shocked but I even arranged for a threesome with another (younger) man at a hotel last October that was seriously hot and mutually respectful. We also experimented with a few different women (for her only). Different strokes for different folks for sure. I'm not suggesting you go THAT far (haha!), but I'm trying to make the point that if you love each other then nothing else should matter. Turn this "weakness" into a "strength" and move on with enjoying what amounts to a short life. Good luck!


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## DDDCanada

She said she never had a long term relationship, made many mistakes and wishes she could take things back. I'm not sure what you mean by projecting my values onto her. You're also assuming that she enjoyed sex. She tells me the contrary - that her experiences were not like like what we share together. Two individuals in a committed relationship should want to give themselves to each other if they truly consider their partners special. On a sidenote, I do feel lucky to be with such a special woman.


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## DDDCanada

Wow, second timer! That certainly is a different take on the issue. I know that in the past, she had looked for a connection with people and thought that having sex would either create this and convince her that it wouldn't work out. I do love my wife dearly and never felt this way about anyone before, including my first wife.


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## seeking sanity

DDD - I'm actually more concerned for your wife then you. You are saying basically a) you regret that you didn't sow your wild oats more when you had the chance, and b) are judging her for things she did prior to meeting you, and in doing so projecting your own insecurities on her.

You have lived true to your values, so why are they somehow different now that she is mirror to you. 

I reminds me a bit of a joke I heard, where the comedian talks about how his wife gets angry at him for things he did in HER dreams.

You may want to consider counselling for yourself. She hasn't done anything to you. But you are punishing her for things you have no right to punish her for.


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## DDDCanada

seeking_sanity, I feel guilty for "punishing" her as you say. I don't regret not having sex when the opportunities with the wrong people were available. I feel that I held out for the right person and she didn't - I am having a difficult time reconciling that. I recognize that things can't be changed. I've seen counsellor which has helped.


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## 4sure

This is why some things should be left in the past, and the person should keep their mouth shut. What did it accomplish by her telling you about her past lovers? Your hurt feelings, and a wedge in between you two. It's not like she can change the past.


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## DDDCanada

4sure, I've thought a lot about that, too. I use to think that I wanted to know everything but the truth can hurt. The amazing, intense feeling I share with her feels compromised by her past experiences. Can she feel what I feel or she been de-sensitized by being with so many different people.


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## Runs like Dog

It's like the first rule of Italian driving: What's behind me is unimportant.


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## 4sure

DDDCanada said:


> 4sure, I've thought a lot about that, too. I use to think that I wanted to know everything but the truth can hurt. The amazing, intense feeling I share with her feels compromised by her past experiences. Can she feel what I feel or she been de-sensitized by being with so many different people.


I've been married 15 years. I have never ask or wanted to know how many women he had slept with before me. He has never ask me.

Sometimes when you confess, it has a way of coming full circle, and kicking you in the butt.


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## DDDCanada

4sure, I agree that revealing the past has a way of putting the present into perspective. Maybe I'm hoping for more of that for her. It's difficult for her to discuss it because she knows how I feel and she also very ashamed. I'm glad I know because I need to know the person I'm with completely.


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## SaffronPower

HER youth, HER growth, stop being a judgemental dope and love the great wife you have


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## COGypsy

I think pretty much everyone here is on the right track in that first of all, there's really not a lot of point in devoting all the time and energy that you're giving to this issue. 

I say that not because I'm trying to dismiss your feelings, but for two simple reasons: 
1. You can't change the past no matter how much you stew about it.
2. How she felt and what she did with other people don't have any effect on what she feels and what she does with you. It's apples and hot dogs...not even oranges 

What surprised me though, was when I went back and looked at your first couple of posts, you said that you're both in your 30's. Reading what you've posted, my assumption until then was that you were talking about someone much younger than yourself. Other than the fact that you're talking about sex, you sound much more like her father than her husband. That could explain a lot of her reluctance and shame when it comes to talking about these issues. I'm pretty comfortable with my sexual past but I don't think I'd be nearly as confident and open about it with my dad, or someone who was judging me as if he could control me like a father would...it's a whole different vibe to the conversation.


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## second timer

DDDCanada, do you find that these concerns translate to any problems in the bedroom? When I first met my wife I was fearful that perhaps I wasn't enough for her based on all the "sampling" she'd done in the past. I tried Viagra for the hell of it and WOW! Just a thought.


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## Catherine602

DDDCanada said:


> 4sure, I've thought a lot about that, too. I use to think that I wanted to know everything but the truth can hurt. The amazing, intense feeling I share with her feels compromised by her past experiences. Can she feel what I feel or she been de-sensitized by being with so many different people.


I don't know if you are still religious but there is some guidance in the Bible that I believe may help. I believe it was Jesus's Sermen on the mount. Judge not that ye shall not be judged, you remove the speck from your brothers eye and egnore the bolt in your own eue

In the matter of judgement for past transgressions, you appear not to be able to show you wife empathy, that is you can not put your delf in her place because you say that you did not sin as she has sinned. Think back over your life, have you done nothing that was immoral, unkind, have you taken some that you should not have, cheated on takes, made business deals that you knew was cheating the other person, looked at other woman, had thought of sex with others while married, been tempted by other woman, looked at porn or pictures of naked women, gossiped or revealed factors that you knew woold injure some, told lies about a person or situation that would put them in a bad light, been unkind to a service person just because you could, habuor racial prejudice, discriminated against some for no reason except race, weight, ugliness, or religious beliefs, hit any one, refused to help someone when you could easily have done so, made no contribution to the poor, thought self superior because of money, education, background, felt pridfull, nudged people because of their transgression, felt superior because you are righteous and pure, were greedy and took more than you should knowing it would deprive others. 

If you committed any of these you have committed one of the seven deadly sins. God does not seem to ranked any one as worse then the other they are all equally wrong and show moral flaws. All will be judged equally in the final days. Have you ever prayer for forgiveness. Think about it, do you expect mercy and grace for any sin.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear

second timer said:


> DDDCanada, do you find that these concerns translate to any problems in the bedroom? When I first met my wife I was fearful that perhaps I wasn't enough for her based on all the "sampling" she'd done in the past. I tried Viagra for the hell of it and WOW! Just a thought.


If you get a chance, try Cialis... There's a reason it's called the "weekend pill"... 

C


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## DDDCanada

Yes, I have made many mistakes in the past. I've never claimed otherwise. I suspect that she tells me she made mistakes, not because she believes, but because it has become an issue between us. And yes, I have feelings of guilt for being hard on her. I honestly believe I am with the most special, amazing woman.


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## DDDCanada

second_timer, we have no problems in the bedroom. However, I can see it becoming a problem if this issue lingers on.


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## second timer

Okay my friend. I'm no worldly man but I just thought I'd offer you a bit of advice. Our experimentation with other people ended back in October and we're again happily monogomous. I'm telling you it can be "hot" if you start to look at her experience as an asset. You're obviously a trusted and valued lover to her if she's completely content being just yours and I hope you consider yourself one lucky guy. Best of luck!


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## DDDCanada

I feel very lucky to be with such a wonderful girl. She's really a special person. I make her feel special as well. I don't believe she felt she was special in the past. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## twomoonlight

> I feel that I held out for the right person and she didn't - I am having a difficult time reconciling that.


That is harsh you are punishing her because she wasn't as "smart" as you were? Obviously you weren't as smart as you think you were...you ended up DIVORCED from you first wife you know the one you waited and saved yourself for....

So really what is the issue? you both gave yourself to people you are no longer with...

Sounds to me like you both made mistakes. 

The past is the past.


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## Kobo

The only thing you can control is your reaction to those thoughts/feelings you get. You're not going to forget her #. It's part of who she is. You need to work on the way you handle it. If it makes you insecure make a decided effort to be confident. Talk yourself up. If you don't think you measure up then take steps to become a better lover. Once again the only thing you can change is your reaction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog

If it translates into bedroom skills, who cares? All those other guys were practice. It's like my job. I have spent a fortune of other people's money perfecting my craft.


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## Catherine602

DDDCanada said:


> Yes, I have made many mistakes in the past. I've never claimed otherwise. I suspect that she tells me she made mistakes, not because she believes, but because it has become an issue between us. And yes, I have feelings of guilt for being hard on her. I honestly believe I am with the most special, amazing woman.


 You apparently were lucky to have a background that made it easy for you to resist temptation. Perhaps your wife's background was not stable and loving enough for her to resist seeking that one human connection we all crave, love. 

Who knows why God makes one person's life easy for them to appear good and the other difficult? Maybe because the people who have it easy are expected to help those who had a harder time. 

I'll refer back to the Bible Luke 12:8 - "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required...". You were granted the wherewithal to be strong and she was not. 

Do you think you are being prideful and judgmental when you say you were able to do so and so compared to your wife who was not? 

I feel I want to reach out to you wife and hug her. She trusted you when she revealed this but she did not realizes that you were not what she thought. She no doubt revealed herself because thought you were a safe harbor. She is not so safe and will probably hid many of her feelings now that she knows you better. 

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction so you can indulge your feelings now but they will come back to you in some form. You may look back and wish you were wiser.


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## DDDCanada

I don't feel like I am better person than my wife. I'm just disappointed that she took sex so lightly in the past. It always been the glue that brings people together in my eyes. To waste on people that you don't have a special connection with is sad. I'm not insecure about myself or my sexual abilities. On the contrary, I feel good about it. I guess I just wish she didn't have so many others to compare me to. 




Catherine602 said:


> You apparently were lucky to have a background that made it easy for you to resist temptation. Perhaps your wife's background was not stable and loving enough for her to resist seeking that one human connection we all crave, love.
> 
> Who knows why God makes one person's life easy for them to appear good and the other difficult? Maybe because the people who have it easy are expected to help those who had a harder time.
> 
> I'll refer back to the Bible Luke 12:8 - "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required...". You were granted the wherewithal to be strong and she was not.
> 
> Do you think you are being prideful and judgmental when you say you were able to do so and so compared to your wife who was not?
> 
> I feel I want to reach out to you wife and hug her. She trusted you when she revealed this but she did not realizes that you were not what she thought. She no doubt revealed herself because thought you were a safe harbor. She is not so safe and will probably hid many of her feelings now that she knows you better.
> 
> Every action has an equal and opposite reaction so you can indulge your feelings now but they will come back to you in some form. You may look back and wish you were wiser.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Therealbrighteyes

She isn't comparing! She herself wishes it hadn't been so many. Please take this to heart.


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## Trenton

DDDCanada said:


> I feel very lucky to be with such a wonderful girl. She's really a special person. I make her feel special as well. I don't believe she felt she was special in the past.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Remember this and let go of the rest. You both deserve happiness with one another.


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## DDDCanada

Thank you for the words of encouragement. She gets so down when this issue comes up and feels ashamed. I get angry with myself for making her feel this way.


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## Therealbrighteyes

I won't go in to my history, you can read it as I have posted about it. I was a broken person and did things I regret. My husband knew all of this and married me anyways. He has never once been ashamed for me, gotten insecure about it or tossed it in my face. Had he done that, I would have been gone. I DIDN'T feel special in the past and it was only him who made/makes me feel that way. Despite all our problems and issues that is one thing he never held against me and I respect him tremendously for it. 
Please don't let her past experiences harm a great relationship. You will only harm yourself and cause unbelievable pain to your wife.


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## Michelle27

DDDCanada said:


> Michelle27, how does her past experiences make her appreciate my relationship with her more? Just curious to get your thoughts.


I have a strong suspicion that she appreciates the importance you have placed on choosing your partners carefully, and not jumping into "easy" sex. But most of all that even with those values, you chose HER. Does that make sense?


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## Halien

Brennan said:


> I won't go in to my history, you can read it as I have posted about it. I was a broken person and did things I regret. My husband knew all of this and married me anyways. He has never once been ashamed for me, gotten insecure about it or tossed it in my face. Had he done that, I would have been gone. I DIDN'T feel special in the past and it was only him who made/makes me feel that way. Despite all our problems and issues that is one thing he never held against me and I respect him tremendously for it.
> Please don't let her past experiences harm a great relationship. You will only harm yourself and cause unbelievable pain to your wife.


In my opinion, this is great advice, and the kind that could keep you from turning your relationship into one of regrets. Let it go. It was before you, and you two will develop your own way of communicating intimately regardless of the variety or lack of in your pasts. Its you and her. Not you and her and all the ones from her past.

As a guy, I was worlds different from my wife before we were married. I was her first. Don't remember the exact number for me, but I was active before being a teenager and went to a very loose college(this is a hesitant way of saying it was embarrassingly high, moving me into the category usually reserved for describing females). I think it bothered my wife even more that I didn't have a decent estimation. The more she questioned me about it, the worse it got. 

All were superficial. Point is, none were even close to the depth of our relationship. And the fact that she was able to give me a fresh start as a new person - incredible.

As a guy, I'm suggesting that you take this as a challenge just to make something special out of it. Develop intimate traditions that make her forget, and let you put it behind you. One day, you'll know her so well that you can even anticipate her next move - nobody else can claim that one. By that time, you'll look back and ask yourself why you beat yourself up about it.


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## Therealbrighteyes

Halien, perfectly said. 
It doesn't matter who she was with prior to being with you, the point is she married you and only you. She loves you and only you. She wants only you. Take that little voice sitting on your shoulder and toss him in to the frying pan. If you keep pressing this, you will further her hurt and shame. She is a great woman, you said it yourself. You love her, so show her that. Please let this part go, please.


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## dochol

My advice? Let it go and focus on the future. Was she committing adultery when she was sleeping around? If not, you shouldn't worry about it. She probably has it out of her system. It sounds a little like you have some sexual hangups. I would hate for my wife to hold my young adventures against me. But go ahead and ruin your marriage to a wonderful woman if you want. The problem is you, not her.


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## DDDCanada

Michelle27, Halien, Brennan

Thank you very much for your insight. I'm actually feeling more at ease with the situation. She said everything before us was a one time thing or extremely short lived. She's never experienced anything close to what we have. And yes, I can anticipate her next move which is fantastic! We love each other beyond anything either could have ever expected.


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## DDDCanada

Update: I spoke with my wonderful wife last night from 3am to 7am! We talked about these issues and she opened up about her feelings. I told her that she is my treasure and that I will love her forever. She said she never considered herself a treasure and seemed to settle in the past. It was a great time.


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## Catherine602

You wife has a treasure for a husband and a man. You have had been faced with one of lifes biggest challenges, the opportunity to grant another person mercey, acceptance dispite not being able to understand their behavior or motivations. It is obvious that you are pained by this experience and you expressed disappoinent in your self for your all too human reactions. 

But I think I see a pattern - you seem to be a young man who, when faced with life challenges, is sorely tempted to do the mundane and ordinary. However, you do a hat trick and take the game of life to new heights. I enjoyed reading this and hope you will see your life and choices you made in the past and now as rather extraordinary.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Xena

Why don't you just accept that your wife's values are not yours, and accept and love her anyway? Not everyone has to see sex the same way.


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## Halien

DDDCanada said:


> Update: I spoke with my wonderful wife last night from 3am to 7am! We talked about these issues and she opened up about her feelings. I told her that she is my treasure and that I will love her forever. She said she never considered herself a treasure and seemed to settle in the past. It was a great time.


That's great!


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## Dr. Rockstar

It looks like you'll be able to work things out, DDDCanada, but as a man who waited for the right person myself, I can tell you it was very difficult for my wife to understand that, and she ended up devaluing herself because she had had previous partners.

In the Americas and Europe at least, it's unrealistic to expect that the person you are marrying is a virgin. I view it like this: those previous experiences helped to mature her, shaping her into the person who I fell in love with. Without them, she'd be someone else. So treasure her for who she is, not who she might have been. Because if she had saved herself for you, she might not have been the person you needed.


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## MEM2020

DDD,
You say "when this issue comes up". Are you bringing it up or is she?




DDDCanada said:


> Thank you for the words of encouragement. She gets so done when this issue comes up and feels ashamed. I get angry with myself for making her feel this way.


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## DDDCanada

She tells me that she has never experienced intimacy to the level of excitement that she feels with me and looks back at her experiences with great regret. I don't want my wife to feel bad about everything. On the contrary, I want her to feel great about herself and the wonderful qualities she has. I am a lucky man. What tends to haunt me are the thoughts of my wife with other men that she did not care about. Those experiences have robbed her of something that she did not even realize she was giving.


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## Conrad

If I may, what's the difference?

When I read what you write - while cloaked in concern for her "giving something away" - what my mind "reads" is and it should have been saved for me.

Please get over this.


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## second timer

I think it's time you took her on a weekend getaway and make lots of passionate love. Focus on her inner and outer beauty and show her what a beautiful person you think she is. All the negativity tends to get washed away in a flood of positive feelings. Life is short....do it right!


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## DDDCanada

Conrad, if there were no difference, why would it matter who anyone was with and if it were meaningful or not. I've always thought that two souls need to be connected for this act to happen or have meaning. If not, it is superficial. _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Affaircare

I'm going to be straightforward about this. 

You knew your wife had previous partners when you stood before witnesses and made your vows. You also knew it was not "one other long term committed relationship" and yet you made your vows anyway. Since there is literally nothing you can do to change the past, it is what it is...PAST...and continuing to dwell on it harms you and harms your wife. It sounds like she may have thought sex would bring her an intimate relationship and now she has grown and realizes that actually an intimate relationship is the place to share sex. 

Thus, I see no good in continuing to dwell on something she did in the past, can not change, and has learned from and grown. I do see that continuing to dwell on it basically demonstrates a lack of forgiveness, AND you made marital vows with her to consider what is best FOR HER and meet HER needs so she can become a better person; therefore continuing to dwell on it will hurt you, hurt her (a lot) and damage your marriage. 

DDDCanada, she is where she is NOW...the woman she is NOW. How would you like it if she dug into your past, discovered something that you did as a young man that was a mistake which you no longer do because you grew up and learned to do better...and she held that over your head? "I can not get over that you were a thief and stole that candy bar 15 years ago! How can you expect me to trust you now?" I'll tell you how. Put the past where it belongs. IN THE PAST! 

So here is my very strong suggestion. Pick a day when you and your wife both have the day off. Bring up this topic, and let her know that you want to move on and bury this issue (because after all...it is dead). If it is meaningful to you, have a little ceremony that indicates BURYING IT (such as...write it all out on a piece of paper and then burn the paper together). THEN agree together to never, ever bring this up again in any way...and agree that if either one of you do start to, the other one has the right to say "That issue was laid to rest and is dead. It's over." 

The choice is clear: either hang onto this and deeply harm your wife and your marriage or look at the woman she is TODAY and who she will be in the FUTURE, and make the conscious choice to release the past.


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## Atholk

DDDCanada said:


> The revised number of 24 concerns me more and the fact that she lied about it.


Women almost always "underestimate" the number of sexual partners they have when asked. You should have been thinking it was a lot more than 8 or 9 when she said "8 or 9."

The number "8 or 9" is a quite calculated statement to make you feel that she has been somewhat sexually active and does enjoy sex, but isn't a total **** that bangs anyone.

So on one hand you have been simply naive. On the other hand, the fact that she actually has told you the truth, was a serious risk for her and a statement of how you have affected her profoundly as a man. This is a woman that respects you enough to tell you the truth and risk her own happiness in the process.

So as yucky as these moments have been. This is progress.


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## COGypsy

DDDCanada said:


> Conrad, if there were no difference, why would it matter who anyone was with and if it were meaningful or not. *I've *always thought that two souls need to be connected for this act to happen or have meaning. If not, it is superficial. _Posted via Mobile Device_


But this is _your_ value statement. It's not everyone's. Frankly, it's not mine--I can respect the view that sex should remain within the bounds of marriage, but I don't personally share it. And even so, people's ideas and value's change over time. People go to church and get "saved" and change their whole belief system all the time. What someone did and thought before you even knew them is irrelevant. You're with the person she is right now. 

It makes you wonder what's the next thing from her past that's going to be deeply disturbing and make you question the very fabric of her character? Maybe she stole gum from the 7-11 when she was 5....then she'll be not only a sexual deviant, but a thief too! Never mind that it was something that a lot of people do and that she wasn't even (hypothetically) old enough to cross the street...

If you don't want her to feel badly about everything, as you say you don't, then you have to drop this. It's a circular argument. You feel how you feel. She did what she did. Apparently neither of you can change that, and you're both here now, so if you're going to stay together, this issue just has to be put away.


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## MEM2020

DDD,
You mentioned "when it comes up" she feels really bad - which you don't want. 

Who keeps bringing it up?  




DDDCanada said:


> Conrad, if there were no difference, why would it matter who anyone was with and if it were meaningful or not. I've always thought that two souls need to be connected for this act to happen or have meaning. If not, it is superficial. _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sisters359

"You keep picturing. . ." Stop. You are obsessing, and that is never healthy. It has nothing to do with her and everything to do with you. Get help with that if you must, but know that if you don't address this, it will greatly affect your marriage. 

And don't listen to stereotyping. I'm a woman and I've never lied about the number of partners I have--or about my age, or my weight, or any number of things "all women" lie about. Women who buy into gender roles might lie about that type of thing to give the illusion that they "fit" the role, but many of us don't waste energy trying to prove we are something we are not. And yet, somehow, we manage to be real women--and damn happy, too!


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## Sanity

Never ask a question unless you are ready for the answer. You asked her how many partners she has been with but you could not deal with the truth. Personally I believe it's non of your business and frankly do you really want to know how many men have played hide the sausage with her? Yuck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DDDCanada

Affaircare, you're absolutely right she may have thought sex would bring her an intimate relationship and now she has grown and realizes that actually an intimate relationship is the place to share sex. She has many regrets about what she has done but I have done nothing to help by letting it affect me. This woman is crazy about me and is gorgeous. I couldn't ask for anything more but the past still bothers me. I haven't come to terms with it yet.


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## Faith-Hope-Love

A couple of quotes from DDDCanada:
#46 "I'm just disappointed that she took sex so lightly in the past. It always been the glue that brings people together in my eyes. To waste on people that you don't have a special connection with is sad."
#63 "What tends to haunt me are the thoughts of my wife with other men that she did not care about. Those experiences have robbed her of something that she did not even realize she was giving."

DDD, it's a shame that YOU are punishing your wife for realizing now what she didn't realize in the past. 

#46 "I guess I just wish she didn't have so many others to compare me to." 

DDD, I think what you said there could be the heart of your problem. You really need to discuss your insecurity with your therapist, because this whole thing is YOUR problem and not your wife's. Unless you get your thinking straight, YOU will be responsible for your next divorce.


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## DDDCanada

Faith-Hope-Love, thanks for the post. I realize that I am hurting my wife by "punishing" her for the past. This is not something I plan to do in advance. The reaction is triggered by a negative thought related to her past. I want to stop thinking about by I have not been able to yet.


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## MEM2020

I can only assume from your lack of response that you choose to keep bringing this up with her. 

I get that you are upset by this, but you know for someone so big on accountability you have some room to grow. Using statements like "whenever it comes up", makes it seem like that is just "happening". It is not just happening. You are choosing to bring it up. 

While I feel bad for you - that this bothers you so much, and accept you cannot directly control your feelings, as a grown man you are expected to control how you "act" on those feelings. 

You are injuring your W by doing this. She can't change the past. 




DDDCanada said:


> Faith-Hope-Love, thanks for the post. I realize that I am hurting my wife by "punishing" her for the past. This is not something I plan to do in advance. The reaction is triggered by a negative thought related to her past. I want to stop thinking about by I have not been able to yet.


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## DDDCanada

We have both brought up the subject but I bring it up more often. It something that seems to simmer in my mind almost all the time. I don't wish to think about but it's just always there. As a result of this, any little reminder of something she's shared with me sets offer a discussion. Can she appreciate what we have as extremely special when it's something she's shared with so many others before? I can't answer that question without thinking that her experiences have impacted things in a negative way.


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## candygirl29

Ugh !!! not so perfect You both are in your mid 30's. unless a person was married early I would expect them to have atleast 4 lovers. Wow!!! what was she doing before she met you. Sounds like she was a sperm toilet. Yikes, she perfect now she has you! If it makes you feel better you had her 24 lovers, your first wife, and her. So you had 26 lovers in all:smthumbup:


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## DDDCanada

Not sure how I'm going to get through this. I feel as though the thought of my wife with other men is consuming me. She said she made a lot of mistakes and often doesn't know what to say when it comes up. What can a person say? I feel enormous guilt about putting so much pressure on my wife regarding this issue.


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## Conrad

DDDCanada said:


> Not sure how I'm going to get through this. I feel as though the thought of my wife with other men is consuming me. She said she made a lot of mistakes and often doesn't know what to say when it comes up. What can a person say? I feel enormous guilt about putting so much pressure on my wife regarding this issue.


Get some help.

Seriously.

There's a time in the beginning of most relationships where we have these idealistic thoughts. I actually share your view of the sacred bond associated with married couples.

I've been surprised by "numbers" I've heard in my life also.

Being right with YOURSELF is the solution. There's nothing she can do about it. If you don't do something about yourself on this, I can guarantee you will help extinguish her love for you.


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## DDDCanada

Thanks, Conrad. I appreciate the comments. I saw a therapist who said that she recognizes the issue as a "hot button" for me. However, while it felt good to get things off my chest, it didn't do much to extinguish the issue. Still searching for the answer .....


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## Conrad

DDDCanada said:


> Thanks, Conrad. I appreciate the comments. I saw a therapist who said that she recognizes the issue as a "hot button" for me. However, while it felt good to get things off my chest, it didn't do much to extinguish the issue. Still searching for the answer .....


You're in Canada?

I presume they have Internal Family Systems certified counselors up there.

It's what helped me with this issue -and with countless others.


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## SaffronPower

yeah maybe you need some help on controlling your thoughts...you're obsessing over something that can't be changed

TRY going to your "happy spot" whenever the subject comes to mind...you CAN get over this.

And listen, she is not comparing you, I promise.

Obviously you're a lucky man who has a horny wife. Just RELAX and enjoy it.

Keep your mouth shut about the subject, train your mind to think of something else. This will go away.


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## DDDCanada

Yes, I need to find my "happy spot". I've always been to able to impact things in my life when I put my mind to it. This is one of those few situations that I can do very little about. It's frustrating but I need to find a way to deal with it.


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## Conrad

DDDCanada said:


> Yes, I need to find my "happy spot". I've always been to able to impact things in my life when I put my mind to it. This is one of those few situations that I can do very little about. It's frustrating but I need to find a way to deal with it.


I can guarantee you that it's possible.

But, it won't "work for you" through proactive pressure or male-oriented "winning".

This will take reflection, introspection, and coming to grips with yourself.

Part of it will hurt and you will discover things about yourself that will make you a better husband - and a better man.


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## DDDCanada

I've never felt that I was better than anyone else but I get what your saying about "winning".


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## BigBadWolf

I believe this thread is most interesting and important in this day and age.

Many women and men on this thread are saying so many multiple partners, not to worry, it is not important. 

But as a man, I will say, it would be very important to me.

It has been alluded to before, but for any man asking a women about sexual past, immediately double whatever figure she may hint at you. This is not 100 percent of course but is a good starting point. If she says 2, assume at least 4. If she says 9, yes, then assume at least 18.

Next, understand as well, we know we cannot change the past, but we can try to understand what is important and what is not important about such a situation.

Your woman, she was not honest with you about something that is very important to you. This creates resentment.

As well, you view sex as something sacred, special, and have lived and behaved with self integrity for many years because of this.

Understand a woman, physical sex is not typically viewed the same ways. 

A woman, even a modest attractive woman, have since her puberty been propositioned or pursued or have opportunity or willing partner for sex practically every day of her entire life. 

As a man, we can NOT easily relate to this! 

For we know as men, that sex is someting we are pursuing and working towards. So yes, as men we can easily glamorize and even worship this pursuit to extremes.

Your woman, for whatever reason in her youth, fell into behaviors that led to casual sexual encounters, either disregarding or ignoring any consequences (that perhaps in the future she will meet the man that believes that sex is not casual).

I do not agree with those that say this issue will go away, because myself, I would be the same way. As well, I would never advise my own sons to enter into a relationship with a woman with so many sexual partners.

I do know this, whatever you are feeling about it, you must express how you feel and deal with it. Anything less is dishonest.

My advice:

Stop romanticizing the notion that the PHYSICAL sex is sacred. Consider instead this point of view, that what is "sacred" that a man gets from his woman is the emotional intimacy and emotoinal connection, and yes, even the submission, that a woman will ONLY give to a man that has earned (won) it. 

You appear to have that now with your woman, these other men did not. 

Your woman is contrite about her past (this is good sign), she feels bad how it makes her and you feel (this is good sign) and she was honest with you about the actual number (this is HUGE good sign).

Now, understand this, as the man in the relationship be the leader to your woman, and use the power of your own integrity for your own happiness. 

Accept these numbers about your woman's past, and whatever "deficiency" you believe it may be, simply realize this "deficiency" occured because your leadership and integrity were absent from her life.

Now, your leadership and integrity is present. Use them to strengthen the relationship and pursue your own happiness. Care, uplift, and treasure your woman, based on what you are posting, she will treasure you for this for the rest of your lives together. Nothing more special at all than this on this earth! 

I wish you well.


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## DDDCanada

BigBadWolf: After 86 posts, I believe your input has had the greatest impact on me. Reconditioning my mind to not equate the physical aspect of sex as sacred is excellent. I had not thought of it like this before. I also appreciate your comments about her honesty and how that positions her in this relationship. I do treasure my wife and love her more than I ever thought possible. While I understand why previous posts suggested not to worry about the number of partners, I too thought it was important for the reasons you mentioned. Thank you so much for the taking the time to comment.


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## MEM2020

Good stuff. 

I had 25 partners prior to my W. With my other partners, it was all about sex. With her, all about connection. 

NONE of those other partners, devalue what I have with my W.




DDDCanada said:


> BigBadWolf: After 86 posts, I believe your input has had the greatest impact on me. Reconditioning my mind to not equate the physical aspect of sex as sacred is excellent. I had not thought of it like this before. I also appreciate your comments about her honesty and how that positions her in this relationship. I do treasure my wife and love her more than I ever thought possible. While I understand why previous posts suggested not to worry about the number of partners, I too thought it was important for the reasons you mentioned. Thank you so much for the taking the time to comment.


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## sisters359

It is pointless and self-defeating to feel guilty about one's sexual past--but it is healthy and useful to look back and see that one made bad decisions out of neediness, low self-esteem, etc. That type of reflection helps one grow, and suggests an acknowledgement that one owes better to one's self.

You and your wife need to imagine your wife's younger self coming to you with sadness over this. You would both probably encourage her to see she was acting out of poor self-esteem and learn from it, right? Can you imagine reacting in a judgmental, self-righteous way when a young person had the courage to admit she had made poor decisions and was looking for guidance about how to make better decisions in the future? 

A lot of women stupidly think that sex will create a stronger bond with a guy they like. They eventually learn otherwise, of course. And then they may decide just to have sex b/c they ENJOY it, and they are not "giving themselves" to anyone, they are enjoying the body God gave 'em. 

A lot of people believe that sex--like food, or exercise, or other things that make our bodies feel good-is something to embrace. If you believe God gave you a body to enjoy--without going to excess--then this is an equally valid belief to the one you personally hold. What is excess? Eating to the point of illness/obesity; exercising to the point of ignoring other responsibilities or injuring your body (like anorexics, not casual athletic injuries), those kinds of things. Sex becomes a risk when one is so careless as to not know the sexual or mental health of one's partner. And in our world today, a lot of people have paid the price--in the form of contracting an STD--for taking that risk. That's a pretty sobering lesson and guilt does not make it any more effective.


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## DDDCanada

MEM11363, thanks for the post. I am curious to hear from someone who may have been in the same situation as me where the wife had multiple partners and the husband one.


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## DDDCanada

I think she was fortunate not to have contracted a STD because she did have sex with guys she barely knew. She also dodged pregnancy a few times.


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## Conrad

DDDCanada said:


> MEM11363, thanks for the post. I am curious to hear from someone who may have been in the same situation as me where the wife had multiple partners and the husband one.


How about if the wife had 5x as many partners as the man?

Or would you argue that's "something different".

If it's similar, then I'm your guy.


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## DDDCanada

It's the same either way.


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## Conrad

DDDCanada said:


> It's the same either way.


I would echo what the Wolf said.

Once you realize how truly unique the bond is between you two (and I'll bet she's told you it is), the other stuff makes almost no difference.

Only when there are surprises going forward does it have any impact. This may take the form of some disclosure that wasn't made previously.


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## DDDCanada

I realize it the uniqueness of the bond but I'm not convinced how she could.


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## Runs like Dog

What makes you think you feel superior to her because she got around?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DDDCanada

I have not once felt superior to her or anyone else. My issue is if she can truly appreciate the connection we share because of the number of partners she's been with.


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## Therealbrighteyes

DDDCanada said:


> I have not once felt superior to her or anyone else. My issue is if she can truly appreciate the connection we share because of the number of partners she's been with.


Let me ask you a question: Do you not recognize that she had sex with men she barely knew in her past and that it is impossible for her to have had any connection in that situation? 
This is no longer about her, it's about you. You said you are not insecure but I highly disagree. It sounds like you are in essence punishing her for putting you in a situation where you are comparing yourself. Nevermind that she isn't comparing you!
You can either let this go or continue down the path you are on and end up with a wife who is bitter and resentful that she opened up to you about her past and you tossed it in her face and shamed her for it. Which way do you want to go?


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## Conrad

DDDCanada said:


> I realize it the uniqueness of the bond but I'm not convinced how she could.


If you never read another word that I've written or never believe anything else I've said, listen to this next line:

"Not leaving room for your partner's view of a situation - and to keep going back on it after they've clarified their position - is a disrespectful judgement"

You know how those feel, don't you?


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## Therealbrighteyes

Conrad said:


> If you never read another word that I've written or never believe anything else I've said, listen to this next line:
> 
> "Not leaving room for your partner's view of a situation - and to keep going back on it after they've clarified their position - is a disrespectful judgement"
> 
> You know how those feel, don't you?


:iagree:

She has already told you how she feels. Stopping telling her "No you don't feel that way".


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## DDDCanada

Is she saying things to appease me (make me feel better) or because she truly feels it? Sometimes people say certain things to protect themselves and the relationship they are in.


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## Therealbrighteyes

DDDCanada said:


> Is she saying things to appease me (make me feel better) or because she truly feels it? Sometimes people say certain things to protect themselves and the relationship they are in.


So the issue ISN'T the number of partners she has had, it is that you don't trust her. Period.


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## DDDCanada

Trust issues may be creeping into the situation. She had mentioned that she fell for an older guy a few years ago that was married. They were intimate several times and then he said he wanted to save his marriage and didn't want to see her again. She was also intimate was a much older man as well (one time). I guess I feel that she acted immaturely and didn't value the covenant of marriage that other people committed to. I recently told her I considered her a treasure and no one in the world was like her. She told me that no one had ever told her that and she was overwhelmed by it. I believe that she never really knew how special she was until we got together (I feel great about this).


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## akasephiroth

Could the issue not be all of the above? but instead be the fact that your scared? she has had many partners and your ex-wife ran around on you...are you deep down just scared that your current wife is going to become your ex-wife all because of her past sexual actions?

I know how this feels however to an extent. My wife has admitted to being with 1 other guy back when she was 16...this guy was featured on dateline's to catch a predetor and sometimes when i think about it it disguss me to know im sleeping with someone who has had sex willingly with a child predetor...and then i think if it makes me that upset how upset does she get when she thinks of it and after that i just wanna comfort and support her.


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## john1208

Dude, do not let something small like that ruin something that's so good. I know it can be viewed upon as big, but believe me, in the end, that's small, life is about moving forward. If things are going well, don't ruin it, so many people can't find a loved one, and if they do, you know there are imperfections on both sides. I talk from experience, and what I do is pretend that I'm a guy who isn't bothered by things like, I don't feed the negative energy, and it works. Doing this I have totally overcome problems such as jealousy, long term. One last thing, she came and told you the truth, and I'm sure that took courage, and she said it because she's true to you- everythings on the table, sounds to me like you're a pretty lucky person to have someone like that.


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## DDDCanada

Thanks, john1208. She truly is a wonderful girl. We had a long discussion yesterday. She is very regretful of her behaviour and wishes she could take back so much. I am regretful for making her feeling guilty.


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## MEM2020

DDD,
If you really are a good person. You will make that the last conversation you ever have on the subject with her. If you need to discuss it further, do so with a friend, or a therapist. Those conversations are much harder on her than you realize.




DDDCanada said:


> Thanks, john1208. She truly is a wonderful girl. We had a long discussion yesterday. She is very regretful of her behaviour and wishes she could take back so much. I am regretful for making her feeling guilty.


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## marky

I think she was fortunate not to have contracted a STD because she did have sex with guys she barely knew. She also dodged pregnancy a few times.


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## WhereAmI

DDDCanada said:


> Thanks, john1208. She truly is a wonderful girl. We had a long discussion yesterday. She is very regretful of her behaviour and wishes she could take back so much.* I am regretful for making her feeling guilty.*


Regretful to the point of letting it go? She'll only be able to have take this discussion so many times before she begins to resent you. Stop worrying about the past, live happily now!


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## Catherine602

I agree it is much harder on her than she is letting you see. The effect of what you are doing will not show up now, it may take months or years, but it will come up. When it does, it may take the form of her telling you why she can no longer meet your needs. Try to pull yourself together quickly for the sake of your future with the woman you love.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DDDCanada

I'm trying my best to let go of the past. Are most people suggesting that I let it go because they too have had many partners and agreeing with me would mean judging themselves? I get the sense that many people here are not relating to my feeling.


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## WhereAmI

DDDCanada said:


> I'm trying my best to let go of the past. Are most people suggesting that I let it go because they too have had many partners and agreeing with me would mean judging themselves? I get the sense that many people here are not relating to my feeling.


I've only been with my H and I'm suggesting you let it go. It was before you and she's made it clear that she regrets her behavior. She's also said that she feels guilt when you bring it up. Do you want her to associate you with a guilty feeling or with a loving one? 

If you keep having the urge to discuss this with her, perhaps IC is in order. At this point the issue is yours.


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## DDDCanada

Thanks, WhereAmI. I have seen a therapist to no avail. This is why I decided to post my issue on this site.


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## MEM2020

DDD,
Lets talk about motivations here. Let me start. From the age of 15 onward I had an average of just over 2 sexual partners a year for 11 years at which point I met the woman who is now my W. So I have had just over 25 sexual partners. I am not ashamed of that in the least as those experiences helped me learn about women and sex. 

You on the other hand had incredible discipline and self control and waited. I totally respect you for that. But ummmm - now our paths fork and here's why. 

I actually have enough mental and emotional discipline not to emotionally abuse my wife when "I" have some sort of OCD issue. You don't. My "past" doesn't "hurt" my W. She knew about my prior partners before we got engaged and had no issue with my history. The ONLY thing she cared about was that I would be faithful which I have been. 

You on the other hand are using your "purity" as a weapon to punish your W because you are angry at her for being less pure. 

So back to "judging". If you were my son in law, I would be suggesting to my daughter that she consider a trial separation. 

Are you a bit clearer on where we stand now?




DDDCanada said:


> I'm trying my best to let go of the past. Are most people suggesting that I let it go because they too have had many partners and agreeing with me would mean judging themselves? I get the sense that many people here are not relating to my feeling.


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## akasephiroth

ive only been with my wife...and my wife was with a child predetor willinglly not the exact same thing but still kinda close...however me and my wife never bring up this issue and just go on with our lives. If you want this to work out then you needa drop it now otherwise your gonna push her away. If you cant let it go on your own then you need talk to someone...yes i thank about my wife being with a child predetor from time to time and it disgust me however i would never let her know this because i know as much as it disgust me it disgust her that much more and she beats herself up enough for it why should i add to the beating? why are you?


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## Conrad

DDDCanada said:


> I'm trying my best to let go of the past. Are most people suggesting that I let it go because they too have had many partners and agreeing with me would mean judging themselves? I get the sense that many people here are not relating to my feeling.


What part of my post did you not understand?


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## DDDCanada

The fact that he wasn't honest about the number of partners until AFTER we were married created resentment. She deceives me to create an image of herself because she knew what my values were and the level of integrity I have. I would have been very weary of getting involved with her if I knew that number earlier on.


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## greenpearl

DDD,

This world has a lot of people who are selfish and they only think about themselves. They don't care about other people's feelings. 

Just reading your title bothers me, and you are not my husband. 

A few weeks ago I tried to talk to another male poster about his issues, and it brought a lot of pain on me. 

I had a past, I had a colorful past. I had it because I was young, I was naive, I met men who I shouldn't have met. And I was also immature, I didn't know how to seek the right men. 

I left a man who is physically abusive, I left a man who is verbally abusive, I let a man who is a cheater, I left a man who is a loser, I left many men. I thank myself that I left them, so my life is not in constant pain now. 

I am grateful that I finally met a man I love dearly and he doesn't mind my past. My past tells me to appreciate the man I have now, my past tells me to do whatever I can to make this man happy. 

Thank him for marrying me, and thank him for not minding my colorful past. Because I was hurt so badly before, he knows he has to do more to protect me and heal me, he knows very well not to hurt me, he keeps on telling me that he will never hurt me. 

I will only appear in your thread once because this kind of threads hurt my feeling. They bring back the pain I had. They also get me down even though I have a husband who doesn't mind my past.


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## DDDCanada

greepearl, my intent was never to hurt anyone's feelings. I am truly sorry if I have done that. I was simply attempting to gain some insight from others that may have experienced the same feelings and experiences that I have. I love my wife more than anything and believe that she would never intentionally hurt. Despite all else, I will continue to live my life the way I always have - with honesty, integrity and am appreciation that I can give my wife something so special and sacred to me. I need to move forward knowing who I am and what I believe in is good.


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## greenpearl

DDDCanada said:


> greepearl, my intent was never to hurt anyone's feelings. I am truly sorry if I have done that. I was simply attempting to gain some insight from others that may have experienced the same feelings and experiences that I have. I love my wife more than anything and believe that she would never intentionally hurt. Despite all else, I will continue to live my life the way I always have - with honesty, integrity and am appreciation that I can give my wife something so special and sacred to me. I need to move forward knowing who I am and what I believe in is good.


Hurting me is not important. 

I let it hurt me. 

And think more about your wife, if you let her past bother you, can you imagine the kind of pain she has? She has much more pain than I do.

Love her, protect her, heal her, and she will be grateful towards you. I believe you are the man she loves and cares, your love means a lot to her.


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## DDDCanada

Thank you, greenpearl. You insight has been helpful and valuable. I need to point out that I do feel selfish discussing this because I point to how my feelings are hurt. I need to consider more carefully my wife's feelings and how all of this has impacted her.


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## Orion

DDDCanada said:


> The fact that he wasn't honest about the number of partners until AFTER we were married created resentment. She deceives me to create an image of herself because she knew what my values were and the level of integrity I have. I would have been very weary of getting involved with her if I knew that number earlier on.


If this is truly about the fact that you are hurt and resentful about your wofe misrepresenting herself, then I truly feel that you need to consider separating or leaving. It seems that you are hurt by her not being honest and that you are punishing her (whether consciously or not) because you have not gotten your "pound of flesh" from her. If purity and honesty is what you really want, and if your wife does not have these qualities, why waste your time and hers when you desire her to be something that she is not? You can find the pure woman that you desire and she can find a man that can deal with her baggage. FWIW, I would be hurt by her fudging the numbers too. But if she is as great as you say in all other aspects, I think that I could get over it. But I know that you have to make your own way through this and follow what YOUR inner voice is telling you. Good luck.


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## SimplyAmorous

BigBadWolf said:


> Stop romanticizing the notion that the PHYSICAL sex is sacred. Consider instead this point of view, that what is "sacred" that a man gets from his woman is the emotional intimacy and emotoinal connection, and yes, even the submission, that a woman will ONLY give to a man that has earned (won) it.
> 
> You appear to have that now with your woman, these other men did not.
> 
> Your woman is contrite about her past (this is good sign), she feels bad how it makes her and you feel (this is good sign) and she was honest with you about the actual number (this is HUGE good sign).
> 
> Now, understand this, as the man in the relationship be the leader to your woman, and use the power of your own integrity for your own happiness.
> 
> Accept these numbers about your woman's past, and whatever "deficiency" you believe it may be, simply realize this "deficiency" occured because your leadership and integrity were absent from her life.
> 
> Now, your leadership and integrity is present. Use them to strengthen the relationship and pursue your own happiness. Care, uplift, and treasure your woman, based on what you are posting, she will treasure you for this for the rest of your lives together. Nothing more special at all than this on this earth!





Excellent - now to walk in this, not looking back. It is good that all of this has come out in the open so you both can deal with it. God likely brought her to you, he wants you to embrace her fully in the here & now, forgiving her weaknesses of the past, she can now sit & learn from you now HOW to be strong in these areas. Likely she will NEVER stray because of the sacredness she has found WITH YOU, as with no other in her past, not even a hint of it, it was all "ugly" to her. 


It sounds amazing to me you both found each other! She never thought anyone like you existed! You are everything she was lacking in life. None of those other men could even dare compare to you. Enjoy what God has given you. To forgive our pasts, to forgive ourselves & have our spouses do this along with us, this is powerful & live giving. 

Love this quote by Bcando here >>> Yesterday is "history"...Tomorrow is a "mystery"...Today is a "gift"..that is why it is called the "Present"...Live for what you both have today...you can't change the past...so enjoy your "GIFT" today..


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## DDDCanada

Thank you, SimplyAmorous. Your words of encouragement will undoubtedly help. I need to eliminate the negative energy and thoughts from my mind. It's is self-manifested and unproductive.


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## Runs like Dog

The only stress I would like to experience with such a sexually advanced mate is in my lower back.


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## DDDCanada

Update: I sat down with my wife last night and expressed how I feel. I told her that I love her so much and am so deeply in love with her. I told her I didn't understand how someone as special as her would just give herself to men so freely. I expressed my fear that she may not feel the same I do during intimacy because of her prior experiences. She went very quiet but later said that most of the experiences she said where once and that she knew they were not right for her even at the time. The few others also weren't special but she liked them. I feel that I want to be merciful but am finding difficult to because of the emotional turmoil.


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## Powerbane

You need to get past this emotional turmoil and emotional abuse you're piling on your wife before it's too late. It's in the past - leave it there. 

Would you be as concerned with this mess if she only had 2 weeks to live? Probably not. This is all crap from the past!

I'm thinking its you making a big deal about it because you're concerned she did it before she met me - well what's to stop her from doing it now? If that's the case, then you need to get some help for your fear of abandonment. 

Good luck and leave this crap buried. You're killing her with it!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COGypsy

Merciful? Because you somehow have the right to show mercy while you "punish" your wife for these alleged transgressions from her past?

If it wasn't apparent that self-esteem issues had at least some part in her past behaviors, it's surely becoming clear now if she's continuing to tolerate these endless re-hashes of a past neither of you can change.

There aren't going to be any words she can say that are going to change your feelings about this, the issue lies completely in your mind. Why drag her down with you? You aren't her father, it's not your role to set consequences for her behavior. Just work on getting your own head straight because she really can't do anything to break this thought cycle you're stuck in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks

Many women flood their fiance's with sex in order to get married, and then shut it down after marriage. Your wife acted chaste in order to get married since that is what you value. Point is, many women and men decieve in order to get married. You should judge the present and future, and let God judge for the past.


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## JJG

This has nothing to do with your wife. This is 100% your problem. How can you say you treasure and love your wife when you are choosing to make her life hell over YOUR issues.

I feel so sorry for your wife.

She has done nothing wrong . . NOTHING. She doesnt not even have to explain her past experiences with you, they are none of your business. You are treaing her like a child!
How dare you think that you need to "forgive" her? 

I cannot express how truly sorry i am that your wife has to put up with the awful way you are treating her. From what you have described, she deserves better . . .


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## SimplyAmorous

DDDCanada said:


> I sat down with my wife last night and expressed how I feel. I told her that I love her so much and am so deeply in love with her.


Then LOVE her ! ALL is in the open now, it has been put on the table, you know you still love this woman, she loves you. 

Think about this for a moment. Sometimes in life we hold ourselves back because *WE *CONVINCE ourselves of things (because we can't imagine it otherwise due to our own beliefs & experiences) so we adamently hold onto a certain *MINDSET* that, in many cases, hinders US in our relationships, causing us much (unneeded) emotional turmiol. 

*YOU are telling yourself she can not feel the same as you because of her past, but you do NOT know this, **you have infact convinced yourself this is true, and this is exactly where you are hung up & continue to get hung up, you can't let go*. 

*Do you want to let go?* 

* What do you feel she is lacking - that you NEED from her to convince you that she FEELS this strong bond of intimacy that you feel?? * 

I have been here myself in another area for a time, convincing myself of things that were NOT true at all- just because my MIND was getting carried away & I was using other outside data to feed "my mind", it was causing ME emotional meltdowns for a time - with my dear husband. He is not the best expresser with his emotions (not like me anyway) but I come to realize that does NOT mean he FEELS any less. These fears I had were all in MY HEAD, not reality. 

What I needed was a changed MINDSET - to stop, listen to him, his words, TRUST THEM. Changing my mindset , stopping the revolving door of negative beliefs, this was MY answer. 

Take a moment to read this : Powers Consulting - Changing Your Mindset


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## Orion

With all due respect to the OP and people who have posted, it appears that the OP is determined proceed how he wants in this matter. And, he should be left to his own devices. I have followed this thread and found a recurring theme of the OP "forgiving" his wife for her not being as pure as he wants. Again, all of the pep talks in the world will not help to OP get rid of this feeling and stop him from tearing his wife down. DDD, I hope that you can conquer YOUR issue because this is so much more about you than it is about your wife. As I said earlier, if this was a deal-breaker for you, you could have found someone as pure as you wanted. You say that your wife had/had self esteem issues. I think that a part of you feeds off of that. Perhaps if you had someone as pure as you desire, you would not be able to lord your superior morality over her...and then what would you do? Good luck in dealing with this because you will need it.


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## Therealbrighteyes

COGypsy said:


> Merciful? Because you somehow have the right to show mercy while you "punish" your wife for these alleged transgressions from her past?
> 
> If it wasn't apparent that self-esteem issues had at least some part in her past behaviors, it's surely becoming clear now if she's continuing to tolerate these endless re-hashes of a past neither of you can change.
> 
> There aren't going to be any words she can say that are going to change your feelings about this, the issue lies completely in your mind. Why drag her down with you? You aren't her father, it's not your role to set consequences for her behavior. Just work on getting your own head straight because she really can't do anything to break this thought cycle you're stuck in.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Bingo! It's about him not her. He feels insecure and like he doesn't compare so he tosses his issues on to her and shames her. Merciful? The only thing I thought of when I read that is the movie Gladiator and the emporer shows his "mercy" by allowing the slave to live another day. Sounds about right in this situation too.


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## DDDCanada

How do integrity and self-worth factor into this situation? Does that not matter to anyone? Yes, I understand this is an issue that I brought to the forefront but it was ultimately created by her past actions. I'm not trying to punish my wife but am trying to understand her better so we can move forward together. I get the sense that some people are accepting of reckless behaviour. Every action has a reaction, some more comfortable than others.


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## Therealbrighteyes

DDDCanada said:


> How do integrity and self-worth factor into this situation? Does that not matter to anyone? Yes, I understand this is an issue that I brought to the forefront but it was ultimately created by her past actions. I'm not trying to punish my wife but am trying to understand her better so we can move forward together. I get the sense that some people are accepting of reckless behaviour. Every action has a reaction, some more comfortable than others.


Ah, more truth comes out. You feel she is lacking in integrity and self worth. 
As for every action has a reaction. Please remember that as she walks out the front door.


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## WhereAmI

DDDCanada said:


> How do integrity and self-worth factor into this situation? Does that not matter to anyone? Yes, I understand this is an issue that I brought to the forefront but it was ultimately created by her past actions. I'm not trying to punish my wife but am trying to understand her better so we can move forward together. I get the sense that some people are accepting of reckless behaviour. *Every action has a reaction, some more comfortable than others.*


Will you feel comfortable if your actions eventually cause your wife to seek divorce? 

What kind of woman would you find next? What if you find a virgin, but she finds out you've been married twice and slept with two women? She's _clearly_ the purest of the two of you. Should she constantly bring up your past behavior because it makes her uncomfortable? Should she sit you down to talk about it repeatedly, not caring how it makes you feel? 

You have decided that you are better than your wife because of this issue, that making her feel bad about herself is acceptable and that your emotions are more important than hers. If you can't begin to treat her as your equal, she's better off without you. 

Are you supposed to judge and forgive, or is God? 

Find a new therapist.


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## reachingshore

DDDCanada said:


> How do integrity and self-worth factor into this situation? Does that not matter to anyone? Yes, I understand this is an issue that I brought to the forefront but it was ultimately created by her past actions. I'm not trying to punish my wife but am trying to understand her better so we can move forward together. I get the sense that some people are accepting of reckless behaviour. Every action has a reaction, some more comfortable than others.


Is your wife's behavior reckless now?

No one can change the past. You agonizing over the past is a futile attempt to change it, somehow. It can't and won't happen. Once you realize that, you will move forward.

Why are you worried about her past self-worth and integrity? It had nothing to do with you. Now her self-worth and integrity are for you and you only. That's why she told you about her past. 

If you continue doing what you are doing.. punishing her in a way, by your hurt behavior.. she will learn not to tell you things like that anymore. What's going to happen to integrity and self-worth then? 

Don't f*ck it up.


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## Orion

DDDCanada said:


> How do integrity and self-worth factor into this situation? Does that not matter to anyone? Yes, I understand this is an issue that I brought to the forefront but it was ultimately created by her past actions. I'm not trying to punish my wife but am trying to understand her better so we can move forward together. I get the sense that some people are accepting of reckless behaviour. *Every action has a reaction, some more comfortable than others*.


You have asked the question that I think you should answer. I have even said that I would be hurt at her lying about the number of men. However, if I knew that I could not get past it, I would leave. FWIW, I think that she showed integrity by coming to you and admitting the truth. THAT is where it comes in. And, where does it come in for you? Where is the honor and integrity involved in tearing down a person (who you admit as self-esteem issues) when the person is truly remorseful for what they have done? And let's be clear here, she didn't kill anyone. If you cannot trust her anymore, then leave and find someone that you can trust.

Also, view the bolded. Yes, for every action there is a reaction. And what is the ultimate result that you are hoping for, given your reaction(s)? Do you think that your reaction(s) will bring them about? You pride yourself on "integrity" but you really need to work on your empathy. Should scientists boast about scientific advancement if none of it is used to benefit mankind (better environment, ending hunger, etc) but all of it is used to mankind's detriment (weapons, etc)? The alleged integrity that you are so proud of disallows you from helping the one person that you have vowed to cherish. I doubt that you are as honorable as you portray yourself to be because there is no integrity in the lack of compassion with which you treat your wife (who you admit is wonderful to you).


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## Orion

Brennan said:


> Ah, more truth comes out. You feel she is lacking in integrity and self worth.
> As for every action has a reaction. Please remember that as she walks out the front door.


:iagree:
I am Orion and I approve this message.


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## DDDCanada

I've never claimed to be better than my wife or anyone else for that matter. I'm just trying to understand things better. I agree that I should demonstrate more empathy to my wife because this topic is painful for her to discuss.


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## WhereAmI

DDDCanada said:


> I've never claimed to be better than my wife or anyone else for that matter.


Actions trump words every time. You are showing her that you believe you're superior because of her past.


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## Orion

DDDCanada said:


> I've never claimed to be better than my wife or anyone else for that matter. I'm just trying to understand things better. * I agree that I should demonstrate more empathy to my wife because this topic is painful for her to discuss*.


And yet you continue to bring it up. The empathy comes in when you stop bringing it up.

By the way, what exactly are you having trouble understanding?


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## greenpearl

A lot of Chinese men divorced their wives because they found out about their wives' past, they didn't care how wonderful the wives had been, they divorced them. Just because of the stupid male egotism, they divorced them. The wives had been faithful in the marriage, loyal and loving, good with money, good at cooking, good at keeping the house clean and organized. But the men divorced them! 

What's the result of the men? They regret, they get involved in heavy drinking, they ruin their own life. I actually think virgins are not that difficult to find, just go to junior high schools and look for the ugly ones. But good and mature women are difficult to find!


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## DDDCanada

Simple, how someone as special as my wife would have casual sex with numerous people while already knowing they weren't for her and had no feelings for them. Also, when we are intimate, do her past experiences compromise her ability to truly grasp how special WE are together.


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## Orion

DDDCanada said:


> Simple, how someone as special as my wife would have casual sex with numerous people while already knowing they weren't for her and had no feelings for them.


Because your wife was at a bad place in her life where she probably needed validation from men (due to her not having self esteem) and she sought that validation through sex.



DDDCanada said:


> Also, when we are intimate, do her past experiences compromise her ability to truly grasp how special WE are together.


No, her past experiences actually enhance her ability to grasp how special you guys are together because she found out what real love is. That being said, YOUR CONSTANT BADGERING AND TEARING HER DOWN IS COMPROMISING HER SEEING HOW SPECIAL YOU GUYS ARE! Would you like to know why? Because when someone loves you they do not go out of their way to make you feel like crap.


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## greenpearl

DDDCanada said:


> Simple, how someone as special as my wife would have casual sex with numerous people while already knowing they weren't for her and had no feelings for them. Also, when we are intimate, do her past experiences compromise her ability to truly grasp how special WE are together.




How would she know that those men were not good for her? 

She didn't know it until the relationship became sour!


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## JJG

Not all people who have many sexual partners have no integrity or self worth - that is YOUR opinion.

I have a few friends who have had many partners for no other reason that they think very highly of themselves and refuse to settle for anything but the best in a long term partner.

I agree with the other posters, if you dont drop this she will eventually leave you. There is only so long someone can put up with this emotional abuse, even from someone they love.

If you love your wife, never raise this subject again! Please!


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## greenpearl

You can keep on harping the same issue! 

You can keep on storing the garbage in your heart! 

It is only going to ruin your life! 

Human, who do you cause your own misery?


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## reachingshore

DDDCanada said:


> Simple, how someone as special as my wife would have casual sex with numerous people while already knowing they weren't for her and had no feelings for them. Also, when we are intimate, do her past experiences compromise her ability to truly grasp how special WE are together.


You just gave yourself an answer. 
She is with you. If she knew you weren't for her and she had no feelings for you, she would not be with you. By definition, YOU are special together.


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## Prodigal

DDDCanada said:


> how someone as special as my wife would have casual sex with numerous people while already knowing they weren't for her and had no feelings for them. Also, when we are intimate, do her past experiences compromise her ability to truly grasp how special WE are together.


I never thought I'd toss my two cents into this fray, but after reading your continuous contradictory posts, one thought came to mind: "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy."

Actually, you sound rather sanctimonious, whether you realize it or not.

Counseling didn't help? Okay, I guess you didn't get anything out of it.

We are talking about a human being here. Every single one of us messes up, sins, and guess what??? God forgives us. Sin is sin. Doesn't matter whether it's stealing office supplies, having numerous sexual liaisons, or gossiping. All boils down to us being human.

She's either special to you or she isn't. You go back and forth on that repeatedly. What you are doing, in a nutshell, is arguing ad nauseum with whatever anyone posts in order to maintain your position. A pride position, by the way.

My heart goes out to your wife. Okay, so you cannot "understand" why she behaved the way she did in the past. Maybe she can't completely understand it herself. We all do things and look back and say, "Why the heck did I do THAT?"

If she had told you she slept around casually with approximately 25 men before you married her, you probably wouldn't have married her, right? At least that's what I got from one of your posts. So now that she's come clean, you feel deceived.

There are win-win situations, and there are nobody-wins-here situations.

You need to find a new counselor, a spirtual advisor, or whatever else can help you get through your "road block."

We own what is on our side of the street. We make amends when we are wrong, which is what your wife has tried to do. Heck, she trusted you enough to feel save to tell you the truth.

Frankly, I'd feel as if someone had pulled the rug off from under my feet if I came clean about something in my past and had it rehashed. So this thread can go on for another kazillion posts and you will still not be able to wrap your head around why she casually slept with men.

Your side of the street. Your problem. You own it. Fix it, or continue in your self-torture ritual. 

Take what you want and leave the rest.


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## DDDCanada

Now she says she doesn't deserve to be with me. I feel terrible now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COGypsy

DDDCanada said:


> How do integrity and self-worth factor into this situation? Does that not matter to anyone? Yes, I understand this is an issue that I brought to the forefront but it was ultimately created by her past actions. I'm not trying to punish my wife but am trying to understand her better so we can move forward together. I get the sense that some people are accepting of reckless behaviour. Every action has a reaction, some more comfortable than others.


One of the problems with this is that you're trying to understand a person that for all intents and purposes no longer exists. Think about it: are you exactly the same person you were at 16? 20? 25? Do you like exactly the same things, go exactly the same places, have all the same interests, have exactly the same opinions on everything? I'm guessing that over time there are a lot of things that you've changed your mind on, or left by the wayside, or discovered weren't so great after all, right? 

Heck, if nothing else, most of us wonder what we ever saw in Milli Vanilli and have learned that Fruity Pebbles and supreme pizza don't actually count as fruit and vegetables! Most of us too, learn that people and situations aren't just black and white and that a lot of things influence their actions that we just can't always know about. Or that people often do actually learn from things that happen in their past and move on. 

What I've really begun to think though, is that after your first wife cheated on you, you're looking for some sort of absolute guarantee that won't happen again. You're examining every nook and cranny of your current situation to try and protect yourself from the remotest possibility of going through that kind of pain and betrayal. And to some extent, that's understandable--it's a terrible thing to have to go through. 

*BUT*, you're on the verge of convicting your current wife of some sort of retroactive infidelity and creating a situation where the two of you never even have a chance at a solid future because you'll have decided that her past has betrayed you and so the future can't be trusted. 

You'll always be trying to "_understand how she could just have casual sex_" and be trying to "_believe she can know how special your relationship is_". You'll come up with one reason after another that she'll have to prove herself to you and naturally have to check up on her because "_every action has a reaction...some more comfortable than others"_. 

Unfortunately, if you stay on this path, you're going to end up with a self-fulfilling prophecy, because eventually she's going to get over this guilt you're creating and she'll have no need or patience for your "_mercy_" and she'll walk right out the door. Of course, that will leave you positive you were right about the whole thing all along, which should provide some righteous comfort.


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## Myopia1964

COGypsy said:


> One of the problems with this is that you're trying to understand a person that for all intents and purposes no longer exists. Think about it: are you exactly the same person you were at 16? 20? 25? Do you like exactly the same things, go exactly the same places, have all the same interests, have exactly the same opinions on everything? I'm guessing that over time there are a lot of things that you've changed your mind on, or left by the wayside, or discovered weren't so great after all, right?
> 
> Heck, if nothing else, most of us wonder what we ever saw in Milli Vanilli and have learned that Fruity Pebbles and supreme pizza don't actually count as fruit and vegetables! Most of us too, learn that people and situations aren't just black and white and that a lot of things influence their actions that we just can't always know about. Or that people often do actually learn from things that happen in their past and move on.
> 
> What I've really begun to think though, is that after your first wife cheated on you, you're looking for some sort of absolute guarantee that won't happen again. You're examining every nook and cranny of your current situation to try and protect yourself from the remotest possibility of going through that kind of pain and betrayal. And to some extent, that's understandable--it's a terrible thing to have to go through.
> 
> *BUT*, you're on the verge of convicting your current wife of some sort of retroactive infidelity and creating a situation where the two of you never even have a chance at a solid future because you'll have decided that her past has betrayed you and so the future can't be trusted.
> 
> You'll always be trying to "_understand how she could just have casual sex_" and be trying to "_believe she can know how special your relationship is_". You'll come up with one reason after another that she'll have to prove herself to you and naturally have to check up on her because "_every action has a reaction...some more comfortable than others"_.
> 
> Unfortunately, if you stay on this path, you're going to end up with a self-fulfilling prophecy, because eventually she's going to get over this guilt you're creating and she'll have no need or patience for your "_mercy_" and she'll walk right out the door. Of course, that will leave you positive you were right about the whole thing all along, which should provide some righteous comfort.


Great response!!!!! :iagree:


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## WhereAmI

DDDCanada said:


> Now she says she doesn't deserve to be with me. I feel terrible now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What are you going to do about it? Continue beating a dead horse to bring her down further or apologize for badgering her about the person she used to be? 

Your marriage is in your hands now. Continue down this road and you know darn well where you'll end up.


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## Runs like Dog

You Win! Happy Now?


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## Orion

DDDCanada said:


> Now she says she doesn't deserve to be with me. I feel terrible now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The operative word in your post is "now". I hope that I am wrong but I can see you bringing this up again once "now" passes and you feel the need for your wife to reiterate her reasons behind why she did what she did. Please prove me wrong.


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## MGirl

DDDCanada said:


> Now she says she doesn't deserve to be with me. I feel terrible now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is just flat out painful to read. I feel so badly for your wife. Your inability to let the past be the past is tearing her down piece by piece and making her feel even worthless than before...and yet you just can't seem to stop. My heart is breaking for this woman.


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## Deejo

Look at this way; given your inability to reconcile this issue, your commitment to 'saving yourself' isn't going to matter. You will lose your wife ... and invariably find yourself looking for someone else, 'special'.

I don't doubt this is a substantial issue for you. It has now become a substantial issue for your marriage - one that may result in it's undoing. That's unfortunate.


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## Catherine602

D is it possible that you have obsessive compulsive disorder? Are compulsive about other things? There are effect medical therapies for this disorder. Would you consider going to a psychiatrist for treatment?


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## Kobo

DDDCanada said:


> Now she says she doesn't deserve to be with me. I feel terrible now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can see the "r" word in your future.


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## Therealbrighteyes

DDDCanada said:


> How do integrity and self-worth factor into this situation? Does that not matter to anyone? Yes, I understand this is an issue that I brought to the forefront but it was ultimately created by her past actions. I'm not trying to punish my wife but am trying to understand her better so we can move forward together. I get the sense that some people are accepting of reckless behaviour. Every action has a reaction, some more comfortable than others.


As a fellow Christian, I would like to say this. There are two types of Christians. The real ones and the frauds. The real ones understand that only God can judge and lest yea cast the first stone. The frauds are the ones who impart their own version of morality on everybody else. They insist that they are righteous and everybody else is not. 
Your wife doesn't lack integrity or self worth because of past behavior. How dare you label her that way! Should she label you as damaged goods because you have been divorced? A far greater "sin" in the eyes of the Church.


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## DDDCanada

I have had to deal with the stigma of being divorced but this is not the outcome that I chose. I worked extremely hard to save my first marriage but my ex-wife did not want to work at salvaging the relationship. Yes, I am a Christian but my beliefs go beyond my religious denomination. Going forward, I plan to empathize and be supportive of my wife.


----------



## Powerbane

She obviously loves you even though you have baggage too. 

Get past it and Love HER!!!


----------



## DDDCanada

Yes, she does love me.


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## MEM2020

I wondered how such a "self controlled, righteous person" could be divorced. 

After watching you ignore EVERYONE and continue to demoralize your W by repeatedly bringing this up despite how AWFUL it makes her feel, I now can guess why your first W dumped you. I imagine, your second and current W is not far behind. 

You may have had the sexual self control of a saint. Sadly you have the emotional self control of a young child. 

If she were my daughter I would now be upping the ante and offering her a financial incentive to move out.




DDDCanada said:


> I have had to deal with the stigma of being divorced but this is not the outcome that I chose. I worked extremely hard to save my first marriage but my ex-wife did not want to work at salvaging the relationship. Yes, I am a Christian but my beliefs go beyond my religious denomination. Going forward, I plan to empathize and be supportive of my wife.


----------



## DDDCanada

MEM11363, thank you for your useless comment.


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## geordiegirl

Wow, I feel so badly for your wife. She trusted you enough to tell you everything there is to know and you turned on her. Sex is not the end all and be all of a relationship. If you really feel you are better than her, and that's what I get, because you have had fewer sexual partners, please let her go to find someone who will love her unconditionally.


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## COGypsy

DDDCanada said:


> MEM11363, thank you for your useless comment.


But honest, which is apparently the only thing you 'hear'. 11 pages of sincere advice clearly didn't make any difference.

How about this? I think I can speak for a great many people here when I say that if you speak TO your wife anything like you speak ABOUT your wife, she has a place on any of our couches whenever she's ready to walk. 

Of course, I'm guessing someone's already going to end up on the couch at your house tonight...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MEM2020

Well I don't know how long your first marriage lasted, mine is 20 years now. I say with certainty that one type of love is "restraint". I actually don't say each and every little thing that pops into my head. My guess, most happily married folks at the 20 year mark would say the same. 

All I see is you methodically destroying the person who loves you most because you are unable to exert sufficient self control to stop talking about this. That is despite being told by a counselor and a large pool of people how toxic this is. 

Emotional abuse is just as ugly as physical abuse. I think your definition of "morally upright" is very narrow. 



DDDCanada said:


> MEM11363, thank you for your useless comment.


----------



## sisters359

What on earth makes you think she would see your sexual relationship exactly the same as you even if she HADN'T had previous sexual experiences?

She is an entirely separate person. You seem to think that if two people act the same, they will feel the same. They won't--because they are individuals. You will never know exactly how she feels, nor will she know exactly how you feel--it's impossible. So, you are holding some illusive standard she can never reach and no one could. At the best, you could find someone who SAYS she feels/acted the same way as you--but that wouldn't make anything about your personal experiences of your relationship the same. It's just illogical. 

You must also understand that what most of us see behind your words is a very desperate insecurity--so we have trouble believing you when you say this is somehow about something "special" or spiritual. Your wife, for example, does not NEED "empathy" or "support," well, not for her sexual past--only abuse victims do. The very fact that you see her as needing those things is a sign that you see her past as somehow "dirty" and wrong. You are clearly disgusted by it, and that shows through in so much of what you write.

BUT, if you really love your wife, then deal with YOUR issue--you have issues with sex. You would not be obessessing about unless you did. 

Or just accept the fact that the woman you love isn't the woman you imagined she had been--and think about that. You love HER, and she has NOT changed. All that is changed is your knowledge of her PAST. That past has led her to be who she is today--the person you supposedly fell in love with. If you fell in love with what you *thought* she was--pure--rather than what she showed to you each day she really was/is-kind, thoughtful, funny, smart, etc.--then you were just as naive and foolish in your 30s as she was as a younger woman. You don't marry someone b/c of what you think they are, you marry them because of what they show you, day after day, they really are. 

Now I've talked myself into thinking, she should be disappointed in YOU b/c you didn't love her, you loved the fantasy you had created around her. But, my intent wasn't to blame you, but to urge you to get help, or this obsession you have will be a curse throughout the rest of your life. Good luck.


----------



## DDDCanada

MEM1163, I am not going to get into a pis*ing match with you about what constitutes a successful marriage and what doesn't. Many couples stay together for 20 years or no longer for their own reasons even with the absence of love. I appreciate the value of diplomacy and "choosing your battles". I also know what is important to me and what isn't. It is completely unfair and obtuse to question the love I have for my wife. This issue concerns me because I love her so much and appreciate her like no other has. I know I have given her a lot to think about but the discussions have made her stronger.


----------



## MGirl

DDDCanada said:


> I know I have given her a lot to think about but the discussions have made her stronger.


If she's voiced that she doesn't feel like she deserves to be with you, she is obviously weaker, not stronger. It *sounds* like her self-esteem has taken a beating if she truly believes she doesn't deserve you


----------



## Kobo

DDDCanada said:


> MEM1163, I am not going to get into a pis*ing match with you about what constitutes a successful marriage and what doesn't. Many couples stay together for 20 years or no longer for their own reasons even with the absence of love. I appreciate the value of diplomacy and "choosing your battles". I also know what is important to me and what isn't. It is completely unfair and obtuse to question the love I have for my wife. This issue concerns me because I love her so much and appreciate her like no other has. I know I have given her a lot to think about but the discussions have made her stronger.


You love your wife but continue to hurt her. Do you think that makes any sense? You're the one with the problem not her. You need to love the woman in front of you not some image you've concocted. Nothing said or done can change her past relationships. Are you man enough to deal with it and move on? You don't have to forget but you have to change your reaction to these insecurities. This is on you. Please put the focus where it belongs.


----------



## geordiegirl

DDDCanada;286560It is completely unfair and obtuse to question the love I have for my wife. This issue concerns me because I love her so much and appreciate her like no other has. I know I have given her a lot to think about but the discussions have made her stronger.[/QUOTE said:


> "Love is patient and kind; it is not jealous or conceited or proud. Love is not ill-mannered or selfish or irratable, *love does not keep a record of wrongs, love is not happy with evil but is happy with the truth."
> 
> Do you really know what love is? Stop beating a dead horse and move on.*


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Kobo said:


> You love your wife but continue to hurt her. Do you think that makes any sense? You're the one with the problem not her. You need to love the woman in front of you not some image you've concocted. Nothing said or done can change her past relationships. Are you man enough to deal with it and move on? You don't have to forget but you have to change your reaction to these insecurities. This is on you. Please put the focus where it belongs.


You are spot on here, Kobo.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## greenpearl

DDD,

We can't judge others by our own criteria. 

I like to be on time, I hate people who are not on time. The result? We can't be friends! But what if he is my husband, what can I do? Nothing but accept that it is the fact. 

You feel proud that you have kept yourself very well. 

You don't understand why your wife didn't. 

It is simple, we are not perfect. 

I don't think you dare to say that you are perfect for your wife. 

We accept each other for who we are, we work together to make our marriage better. 

Don't live in the past! 

Live at the present and plan for the future. 

Don't be a microscope, focus on her dirty spot and make it bigger. Be a camera, focus on her beautiful spot and make it even more beautiful.


----------



## Runs like Dog

Why are you beating up on her so much? What are you trying to REALLY accomplish? You need to take a hard unblinking look at yourself.


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## DDDCanada

There is nothing to accomplish by continuing to badger her. I plan to move forward by focusing on being the best husband I can be and love her with all my passion and vigour. She deserves that.


----------



## Runs like Dog

She deserves that and more.


----------



## SaffronPower

DDDCanada said:


> There is nothing to accomplish by continuing to badger her. I plan to move forward by focusing on being the best husband I can be and love her with all my passion and vigour. She deserves that.


*claps* SWEET


----------



## MGirl

DDDCanada said:


> There is nothing to accomplish by continuing to badger her. I plan to move forward by focusing on being the best husband I can be and love her with all my passion and vigour. She deserves that.


:smthumbup:


----------



## DDDCanada

Thanks to everyone for their comments and support - "tough love" in some cases.


----------



## Kobo

Brennan said:


> You are spot on here, Kobo.
> 
> :iagree::iagree::iagree:


See, I'm not that bad


----------



## greenpearl

DDDCanada said:


> Thanks to everyone for their comments and support - "tough love" in some cases.


People mature faster by tough love!

I thank the people who have given me tender love. 

I thank the people who have given me honest advice. I didn't like it at that time, but spending more time pondering what they said, they spotted on my problems. 

I also thank people who had given me hard time, they insulted me and caused me pain, but this group of people help me mature the fastest!


----------



## Pvt Charlie Delta

I have generally the same problem. I am you only 10 years younger, and about to enter that first marriage. ive been with no one waiting for this woman im about to be with. Ive told her ive never been with anyone before, but not during conversation about that subject in specific so what troubles me is she never said the same. her reply has always been "I know". I can only assume shes been with others before, and im afraid she will say what your wife has told you. Im terrified of the thought of her having been with even one person before. you and I are too rare a kind I guess and we are dealing with the butt end of the situations. I found this website and thread looking for the answer to both of our issues, but I dont know what to think still. I guess what im most worried about is how she views her past experiences. I wish I had the answer for us, but I can let you know you are right in how you live your life. Im with you on this.


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## MEM2020

Charlie,
You need to be fair to her. Before you go any further YOU need to make a decision. You can either decide that you are simply never going to discuss this with her again or that you need to know. Either way is fine. If you need to know, I suggest having ONE conversation about this. You can ask her whatever you want in that conversation, listen to her answers and then decide if you can live with what you heard. If you can, move ahead. If not, end it. 

If you marry and then choose to pick at this and pick at it, you will likely harm/kill the marriage. 

If you have a deep rooted need to marry a virgin that is perfectly fine. But end it now and keep looking. And from now on while dating let the woman know early that - "that" - is a show stopper for you. 

It is very unkind to marry someone you consider to be "damaged goods". You would not want someone to do that to you. 



Pvt Charlie Delta said:


> I have generally the same problem. I am you only 10 years younger, and about to enter that first marriage. ive been with no one waiting for this woman im about to be with. Ive told her ive never been with anyone before, but not during conversation about that subject in specific so what troubles me is she never said the same. her reply has always been "I know". I can only assume shes been with others before, and im afraid she will say what your wife has told you. Im terrified of the thought of her having been with even one person before. you and I are too rare a kind I guess and we are dealing with the butt end of the situations. I found this website and thread looking for the answer to both of our issues, but I dont know what to think still. I guess what im most worried about is how she views her past experiences. I wish I had the answer for us, but I can let you know you are right in how you live your life. Im with you on this.


----------



## OOE

I wish I'd poked my head into this section days ago - you asked for the perspective of someone in your shoes...

When I met my exW, I'd previously had a single one-night-stand, which I regretted terribly. It was purely physical (alcohol was a factor), and rather forgettable. Completely at odds with how I always expected sex to be.

My ExW had a MUCH more "active" past. I never asked for a number. Why would I?

Her lifestyle before she met me carried its own baggage. Sex was a tool to her. She also felt inadequate in many areas. Makes sense when you think about it, because without emotion, it's all about the performance. My point in this is that her actions came with consequences. I'm sure she also carried some guilt.

As a Christian (since you've talked about your faith), my first goal is to be more Christ-like. That includes forgiveness. I forgave her past (for me, not her - we never even discussed it).

Your wife's previous life came with its own consequences, and I'm sure she also had some degree of guilt for "giving in." There's nothing to gain by adding more guilt or consequences.

Forgive her. 

Honestly and truly forgive her.

Over and over. 

Seventy times seven...


----------



## DDDCanada

I am truly doing my best and have not brought up the subject for a while now. However, that doesn't mean I don't think about it. At times, I look at my wife and feel a sense of sadness that I can't explain. Not for something that she's done against me, but because she gave away something so special that she don't not realize she was giving. I feel as though I'm repeating myself but consider this an important point. Charlie, I'm not sure what to suggest. If you don't change your mindset, you will have to live with this forever. Otherwise, you will need some form of epiphany to get over it.


----------



## MEM2020

*Cake eating*

No Charlie that is not how this works. The way it works is that you deal with it NOW and then decide whether or not to proceed down the altar. 

It is cake eating to marry the poor girl and then make it HER job to beg/grovel and try to help you get past this. She is either damaged goods or she isn't, you either love her or you cannot get past this. If you cannot get past it that really is ok. Man up and move on. 

But don't complain if you marry a virgin who happens to not really like sex, and you walk around with lifelong blue balls. 




DDDCanada said:


> I am truly doing my best and have not brought up the subject for a while now. However, that doesn't mean I don't think about it. At times, I look at my wife and feel a sense of sadness that I can't explain. Not for something that she's done against me, but because she gave away something so special that she don't not realize she was giving. I feel as though I'm repeating myself but consider this an important point. Charlie, I'm not sure what to suggest. If you don't change your mindset, you will have to live with this forever. Otherwise, you will need some form of epiphany to get over it.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

*Re: Cake eating*



MEM11363 said:


> But don't complain if you marry a virgin who happens to not really like sex, and you walk around with lifelong blue balls.


I couldn't help but laugh at this because DARN this can be SOOOO true. Many a men have found themselves in this very situation - they HAD to have that pure virginal bride of their dreams only to learn in pure frustrational hell afterwards she doesn't even like sex ! 

She never explored her own body, felt masterbating was a sin. I have read their stories, one stands out in my mind specifically, I even got choked up reading it. This CAN happen too. Go to this webiste & read the problems with some repressed virgins, & the husbands seeking help AFTER the marraige vows. 

The Marriage Bed • Index page


----------



## F-102

DDD, I'm a late comer here, but I have to ask: Do you feel that you're sexually inadequate in her eyes? Do you think that she's comparing you to the others? That one day, she'll think to herself: "He KNOWS how many men I've been with and he still can't bring his A game, like those hot studs #3 and #6...I think I still have their phone numbers."
Do you think that one day she will miss her party-girl past and dump you?


----------



## Conrad

*Re: Cake eating*



MEM11363 said:


> No Charlie that is not how this works. The way it works is that you deal with it NOW and then decide whether or not to proceed down the altar.
> 
> It is cake eating to marry the poor girl and then make it HER job to beg/grovel and try to help you get past this. She is either damaged goods or she isn't, you either love her or you cannot get past this. If you cannot get past it that really is ok. Man up and move on.
> 
> But don't complain if you marry a virgin who happens to not really like sex, and you walk around with lifelong blue balls.


I can testify this last line is undeniably true.


----------



## greenpearl

F-102 said:


> DDD, I'm a late comer here, but I have to ask: Do you feel that you're sexually inadequate in her eyes? Do you think that she's comparing you to the others? That one day, she'll think to herself: "He KNOWS how many men I've been with and he still can't bring his A game, like those hot studs #3 and #6...I think I still have their phone numbers."
> Do you think that one day she will miss her party-girl past and dump you?


F-102,

Men who mind their wives' past are not much different from those women who think sex is dirty!

We can't blame them, they are being influenced too much by the old traditional idea. Don't know how to help them change their mindset!


----------



## Runs like Dog

And in this day and age, to marry a virgin you'd have to cull the herd in middle school, wouldn't you?


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Runs like Dog said:


> And in this day and age, to marry a virgin you'd have to cull the herd in middle school, wouldn't you?


No, they are definitely out there-even up to their 20's and waiting for marraige. I know some of them personally, and many will go on and have a very fullfilling sex life with the husabnds they are saving themselves for. 

My only point is -it CAN be a real gamble, if you've remained so pure as to never even touch her sexually & know what she is capable of -if she can orgasm, if she WANTS them, craves them. Sex should be talked about, yearned for even if you do abstain-would be a good sign. Intercoarse isn't even necessary. That is what we did, and I still struggled with a "sex is dirty" mindset- followed me right into my marraige. Live & learn.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

But then too many partners without love can cause problems too, especially for women. It can hamper their self-worth feeling like damaged goods. She needs a man who is strong enough to forgive fully & determined to get past this, without YOUR acceptance here, she will never BE who she can be as your wife. 

Heck we are all messed up anyway, so if you LOVE this woman , choose the path of forgiveness, because you may never find another you feel as strongly for.


----------



## greenpearl

SimplyAmorous said:


> But then too many partners without love can cause problems too, especially for women. It can hamper their self-worth feeling like damaged goods. She needs a man who is strong enough to forgive fully & determined to get past this, without YOUR acceptance here, she will never BE who she can be as your wife.
> 
> Heck we are all messed up anyway, so if you LOVE this woman , choose the path of forgiveness, because you may never find another you feel as strongly for.


Forgiving is such an important quality for all of us to develop. 

If we don't, we just let our own personality weakness eat us alive!


----------



## Runs like Dog

SimplyAmorous said:


> No, they are definitely out there-even up to their 20's and waiting for marraige. I know some of them personally, and many will go on and have a very fullfilling sex life with the husabnds they are saving themselves for.
> 
> My only point is -it CAN be a real gamble, if you've remained so pure as to never even touch her sexually & know what she is capable of -if she can orgasm, if she WANTS them, craves them. Sex should be talked about, yearned for even if you do abstain-would be a good sign. Intercoarse isn't even necessary. That is what we did, and I still struggled with a "sex is dirty" mindset- followed me right into my marraige. Live & learn.


In the same vein, you are merely your spouse's starter marriage. Why should I break her in so that someone else gets a normal wife? I think the biggest problem I've encountered not that my wife has so many mental hangups about sex but that I was too inexperienced and overeager to notice them. I don't think people change and it's up to the other person to understand in the harsh fluorescent light what that other person IS. 

If I had to do it all over again I would be much more discriminating and set my standards higher. Maybe there should be a custom where people don't get married until they've had sex with 20 other people first, no matter those people are virgins, experienced, pros or whatnot. THEN and only then they're qualified to make an informed decision about Miss Right vs Miss Right Now.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Runs like Dog said:


> In the same vein, you are merely your spouse's starter marriage. Why should I break her in so that someone else gets a normal wife? I think the biggest problem I've encountered not that my wife has so many mental hangups about sex but that I was too inexperienced and overeager to notice them. I don't think people change and it's up to the other person to understand in the harsh fluorescent light what that other person IS.
> 
> If I had to do it all over again I would be much more discriminating and set my standards higher. Maybe there should be a custom where people don't get married until they've had sex with 20 other people first, no matter those people are virgins, experienced, pros or whatnot. THEN and only then they're qualified to make an informed decision about Miss Right vs Miss Right Now.


Maybe I am stupid but I do not understand your question here or what you are trying to say.

So your wife has big hangups? and you would set your standards higher- how so? 

I DO believe we can change! I always LOVED sex, but I did struggle with trying anything dicey, feeling confident of my body with the lights on, anything stripper like screamed BAD GIRL/Dirty to me -even with my own husband, doggie appeared dirty, oral was not something I desired. Now I am a hopeless seductress. TOTAL TOTAL change. 

I believe this could have happend MUCH earlier had I had a sexual education & my husband tried harder to bring this out of me, he was too passsive and somewhat repressed himself. WHich I would not be surprised if the OP is also. 

A Sexual Education, excellent Communication and Forgiveness along with Love is the answer to these dilemmas.


----------



## DDDCanada

The other thing to consider is how people tend to act without considering the consequences. Yes, it is easy to chalk things up to a "mistake" or "life experience" but isn't thinking things through BEFORE acting the ideal?


----------



## Deejo

DDDCanada said:


> The other thing to consider is how people tend to act without considering the consequences. Yes, it is easy to chalk things up to a "mistake" or "life experience" but isn't thinking things through BEFORE acting the ideal?


Nobody's life is 'ideal'. Absolutely nobody. Mistakes is what makes up our human experience. And she knows she made plenty.

Here is what you fail to see, or acknowledge. You view your spouses behavior as 'cheap'.

I say ... she was looking for _you_. She was looking for the person that was going to love her. Could she have made different, perhaps better choices? Maybe.

But her goal remained unchanged. She was looking for a fulfilling and loving relationship ... and she found that with you.

And now you want to sell it short.

Tragic.


----------



## WhereAmI

DDDCanada said:


> The other thing to consider is how people tend to act without considering the consequences. Yes, it is easy to chalk things up to a "mistake" or "life experience" but isn't thinking things through BEFORE acting the ideal?


Sure. It's impossible to live up to anyone's ideal, though. You aren't living up to her ideal. She thought she could trust you with her past and you've chosen to throw it in her face repeatedly. 

In addition you could have thought through your actions of repeatedly bringing up something that was causing your wife pain. Obviously you chose not to do so.

Pot, meet kettle.


----------



## DDDCanada

I understand that learning involves making mistakes and sometimes involving ourselves in less than ideal situations. I would just like to stress that perhaps we can help those who haven't made costly mistakes to think carefully when deciding who and who not to share themselves with.


----------



## COGypsy

DDDCanada said:


> The other thing to consider is how people tend to act without considering the consequences. Yes, it is easy to chalk things up to a "mistake" or "life experience" but isn't thinking things through BEFORE acting the ideal?


Yes, but some consequences are absolutely unforeseen. I would say that the case could be made that the idea of encountering (and marrying!) someone who even cared, or asked about her "number" would fall into the "unforeseen consequence" category.

I've never had anyone even ask me that question, so I really can't even conceptualize that my sexual past would be an issue fraught with "mistakes" and "life experiences" that I should have "thought through" to avoid "consequences".

I think that it's a huge matter of frame of reference here.


----------



## MEM2020

DDD,
Recently you expressed gratitude for some tough love. Time to buckle your seatbelt and activate the airbags. Below you post about forethought and consequences. 

Does that mean you "think through" the toxic impact on your W's mental health before you drag her into yet another unproductive conversation about a past that she cannot change? 

Or have you instead simply jumped into those conversations again and again because you "act" based on your desire "in the moment"? How is that different than what she did? Both were "poor choices" based on a strong but flawed desire to make something "better" in an inappropriate way. She wanted rescue from loneliness or insecurity. And whatever "your" emotional need for these conversations, it isn't getting met or you would not keep having them. 




DDDCanada said:


> The other thing to consider is how people tend to act without considering the consequences. Yes, it is easy to chalk things up to a "mistake" or "life experience" but isn't thinking things through BEFORE acting the ideal?


----------



## DDDCanada

I agree that the frame of reference is important. I also agree that two wrongs don't make a right. However, like every action has a reaction, every decision has a consequence - either positive or negative. We shouldn't hold back from discussing something important out of fear of making a mistake ourselves. Empathy is a factor but addressing reality is just as important.


----------



## MEM2020

DDD,
The only way you are going to get past this is to take a brutally hard look in the mirror. I am sure that overall you are a decent fellow and certainly you and your W deserve a happy marriage. That said: Virtual mirror below. 

Doing it once is having a mature discussion. Inflicting your obsession about this topic on her repeatedly is abuse. 

Your post below is an ineffective attempt to justify a pattern of abusive behavior. 

But hey - lets forget about what I think. The entire foundation for your very strong feelings on this subject is religious. So how about this, go to the priest/pastor/minister of your church and take them through the history of how you have handled these conversations with your W. Ask them if they think continuing to do so squares with "true Christian" behavior. 

It sure seems to me like a very UN-Christian way of demonstrating your Christianity. And every bit of it seems to come from a foundation of insecurity and anxiety. YOU fear that it isn't special with you because she did it with others. The sad thing is even with a virgin it might NOT be special because she might not really love you. Trust me - THAT outcome happens much more often than you think. 





DDDCanada said:


> I agree that the frame of reference is important. I also agree that two wrongs don't make a right. However, like every action has a reaction, every decision has a consequence - either positive or negative. We shouldn't hold back from discussing something important out of fear of making a mistake ourselves. Empathy is a factor but addressing reality is just as important.


----------



## DDDCanada

I'm not abusive, insecure or anxious but respect your opinion.


----------



## greenpearl

DDD,

YOU ARE MAKING A BIG MISTAKE BY DWELLING ON YOUR WIFE"S PAST! 

Don't you think more carefully before you act out. 

As long as you have that thinking in your mind, you are going to hurt your wife. You think if you don't say it or mention it, it will be OK. NO, because your body language and facial expression will show that you still harbor that in your mind. 

If your wife were still sleeping around with men, then she were a helpless woman. But she isn't. 

Children broke bowls, their parents won't keep on scolding them for the bowls they broke ten years ago!


----------



## Runs like Dog

SimplyAmorous said:


> So your wife has big hangups? and you would set your standards higher- how so?


Oh yes, less forgiving of 'quirks' and the warning signs of a post apocalyptic personality. Less naivete on my part. Less eagerness. 



> I DO believe we can change!


No, no the don't. You are always what you wind up being. 

PSA factoid of the day: Most people who die in fires die with obvious and easy egress from the fire. They die standing there frozen with astonishment that they have to do something. They die dumbstruck. Like cattle. People don't change. They just line up.


----------



## COGypsy

DDDCanada said:


> I'm not abusive, insecure or anxious but respect your opinion.


Interesting. Just about every sentence you've typed belies the first half of that statement. We've yet to see the second half much at all...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HelloooNurse

I think you need to let the poor woman go and find someone who accepts her for who she truely is. You obviously don't. You sound like an angry father who just can't let it go. If you LOVE someone, you accept them - WARTS AND ALL. You mustn't love your wife because you just can't stand the warts, if you know what I mean.

All I can say is if you treat your wife like this, imagine when you have kids. They will have the most scary father I have ever seen. If you can't accept that your wife has slept with others before you, imagine how you will react if your child writes off your car, or steals, or gets thrown in jail. You need to learn how to ACCEPT the things you cannot change. I was going to say you need to learn how to forgive, but then I realised your wife hasn't actually done anything wrong so that will not be required. But yeah.. learn some acceptance!


----------



## Orion

COGypsy said:


> Interesting. Just about every sentence you've typed belies the first half of that statement. We've yet to see the second half much at all...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:
You actually stole the very thought from my mind. I honestly cannot see how anyone reading this thread could agree with the first half of DDD's statement. More to the point, I feel that DDD's jaded perception of himself and his actions point to a significantly larger issue.

DDD, I am not trying to be hard on you and I am not mad at you. I feel bad for your wife and I also feel that you have major issues that you need to deal with before you can be of any good to her.


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## MEM2020

DDD,
In general I believe that you are not abusive, insecure or anxious. 

In general I also believe that I am not abusive, insecure or anxious.

I asked myself a question recently. What is the "underlying" cause of my worst marital behaviors. And my answer was that were I more secure, 90% of them wouldn't have happened. 

If you were really secure in yourself you would believe that your W loves you in a way she didn't love anyone else. 

And knowing THAT, all this anxiety and resentment you feel would go away and with it your need to keep bringing this up with her. 

Maybe this is something that the head of your church can help you with. 




DDDCanada said:


> I'm not abusive, insecure or anxious but respect your opinion.


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## greenpearl

MEM,

People in churches teach that you should keep your virginity before you get married. 

A dating couple can't even have sex. 

They will tell him that the kind of thinking he has is right. They will view his wife immoral if she is a christian too. But will they tell him to harbor the kind of resentment he has towards his wife or not, I don't think so. I think they will teach him to forgive and let it go. 

My husband will agree with you about the confidence issue, he thinks if a man is confident about himself, he won't be controlling of his wife. Same thing with a woman, if a woman is confident of herself, she won't be that difficult to live with! She won't poke you all the time and fitness test you all the time!


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## MariaR

I read several replies to your post but have to disagree. I am on my 2nd marriage and those littles lies and betrayals do matter. We all have some kind of a past and they all influence who we are today even if it's in attitude, approach, or what we teach our kids. It doesn't mean she's a bad person, but it does mean that you had high expectations for yourself and for your marriage. If you can honestly say that this isn't something you will hold in your heart, which most people do, then move forward and try to create enough happy and loving moments so that you can just file that part of her life away. But if you're like most, it unfortunately does affect the way we view our spouse, the person that we are supposed to entrust the most intimate thoughts and actions with, and might cause you to lose just a bit of respect... for her and for yourself.

I'm on my 2nd marriage... different "pasts" that I was lied to about. The attitudes about the situations are what has made me lose respect. My 2nd husband is really a good guy, and though I've forgiven him in my heart for the lies and misrepresenting his past, it has changed the way I look at him forever and am finding it hard to love him in my heart the way a wife is supposed to love her husband. I finally told him that I've been carrying this resentment for quite some time. I had to ask myself, if I had known about his "past" before, even if he had been forthcoming from the start, would I have married him. The answer is no.


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## MariaR

By the way, some of the posts are just plain rude! DDD has a right to stand by whatever he feels is important to him. It is absolutely not a sign of insecurity, but rather disappointment. And yeah, life is full of them in one way or another, but some are just harder to get over than others. 

He is absolutely valid in how he feels.


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## reachingshore

MariaR, so for you it's about his actual past... and NOT about him not telling you about it/not telling you about it sooner/misrepresenting it/lying about it?

Meaning: is it about his past or is it about broken trust?

And what about you, DDDCanada?


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## Kobo

DDDCanada said:


> The other thing to consider is how people tend to act without considering the consequences. Yes, it is easy to chalk things up to a "mistake" or "life experience" but isn't thinking things through BEFORE acting the ideal?


Those "mistakes" made the women you fell in love with who she is. Like I said earlier you need to control your reactions to these feelings/thoughts you have. When your wife found you she saw something those others didn't have. Something that made her want to spend her life with you. If you keep on your current path she will soon forget what that something was.


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## MariaR

hi reachingshore - it's about both! If I had known his past while we were dating I would have at least had time to see if he was the right guy for me. Knowing myself, and working hard to like the person I am, that would have made a huge difference in my decision to marry him. Because at the end of the day, I was marrying an illusion. Someone he wanted me to see, not the real him. Though the real him is still a good guy, the attitudes from his past eventually crept up and now I have a clearer picture of whom I married. The hard part is that I fell in the love with both the person deep down inside and the illusion.

Though he came clean about his past, he did so in increments. I know he was embarrassed, but I've been embarrassed about stuff in my past as well. But I put it all out on the table, the good, the bad and the ugly. And from day one was the same person he thought I was... just hopefully an even better version. I felt that's what he deserved. At the end of the day, I deserved that too and instead got betrayal, resentment for bringing up the issues, etc., which I think is what may happen to DDD. That's a hard thing to reconcile.


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## greenpearl

MariaR said:


> hi reachingshore - it's about both! If I had known his past while we were dating I would have at least had time to see if he was the right guy for me. Knowing myself, and working hard to like the person I am, that would have made a huge difference in my decision to marry him. Because at the end of the day, I was marrying an illusion. Someone he wanted me to see, not the real him. Though the real him is still a good guy, the attitudes from his past eventually crept up and now I have a clearer picture of whom I married. The hard part is that I fell in the love with both the person deep down inside and the illusion.
> 
> Though he came clean about his past, he did so in increments. I know he was embarrassed, but I've been embarrassed about stuff in my past as well. But I put it all out on the table, the good, the bad and the ugly. And from day one was the same person he thought I was... just hopefully an even better version. I felt that's what he deserved. At the end of the day, I deserved that too and instead got betrayal, resentment for bringing up the issues, etc., which I think is what may happen to DDD. That's a hard thing to reconcile.


I can understand your disappoint you have for your husband.

He pretended to be somebody he wasn't! 

A lot of people have this kind of thinking: I will hide my secret, let me trap him or her first, then deal with the real issue later. 

But then even if you get to marry that person, you are not the person she or he is married to, and that can create a lot of disappointment and resentment! 

Better be clean before you get married, if he or she doesn't like the way you are, then he or she is not the person you should get married. 

My husband said something very interesting, he said the man I had before we got married will be the man I have forever. And he has kept and is keeping his promise. I think that's the attitude people should have! 

We fell in love with the ones we think they are, then give us the ones we fell in love with after we get married!


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## reachingshore

OK so maybe what I am going to say next is going to help you put things into perspective.. at least when it comes to the past.

My husband is my first and only. He is 10 years older than me. Quite frankly I have no idea how many women he's been with, but judging from what I found out much later I'd say it would be a very high two-digit number.

So..
1. I may be a hopeless romantic, but I am not a moron. I cannot expect him to have been chaste and "waiting for me" at the time when I was 10 years old LOL

2. He explicitly told me.. that had we met when he was 20 or even 25.. assuming of course we wouldn't have such an age difference.. we wouldn't end up together. Why? Because he wouldn't be able to recognize me for what and who I was or who I could be, for him.


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## MariaR

good for you greenpearl! I guess the question then is what do you do once you've already married the person? Can you actually "get over" these things?


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## MariaR

reachingshore, but at least he was up front and honest about it, right? you knew exactly who you were marrying?


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## reachingshore

MariaR.. to a certain point. I don't want to go into details, but there were certain things he hadn't told me or if he had he was misrepresenting the truth.. And those were things that I am of an upmost certainty I should have been told about.. maybe not as a GF, but certainly as a wife (we've been together for 10 years now).

When I say he was misrepresenting the truth, I mean that the gist of the thing was absolutely true, but the rest was just a made-up story. Even when those made-up stories sounded fishy (and they did), I chose to believe every single detail. I thought there would be no reason to lie about it (the reason was embarrassment and general unwillingness to even think about it, forget about talking about it). I found out the true truth (LOL) much later by an accident. 
See, for me it's not about his past. When I found out, I was not disillusioned about who he had been before he met me. I was kinda disillusioned about what we were together, of who he was with me. To me it's all about broken trust.

You can fix that trust, but at least in my case it takes two to do it. I need to talk about it, and find out all about it. I guess it's an attempt of mine to create another illusion.. "I know all about it so I can make myself believe the trust is back". Unfortunately he rarely wants to talk about it, and it's not a "onetime talk and we're done" for me either.

Most of the time I just don't think about it. Sometimes I get reminded of it.. like now, by this thread LOL.. Generally I then strive to do something to find within me a proof that my trust can be and is 100% there. Because if it isn't, what's the point?


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## greenpearl

MariaR said:


> good for you greenpearl! I guess the question then is what do you do once you've already married the person? Can you actually "get over" these things?


Then I want to know if he is a good provider or not, if he is faithful or not, if he cares and loves me or not. 

If he is not a good provider or protector, I won't be happy! 

If he makes me feel insecure, I won't be happy! 

If he is indifferent towards me, I won't be happy. 

If I am not happy, I will think of leaving! 

But if he is a good provider and protector, and he is being very faithful from now on, and he cares and loves me, gives me a lot of attention! 

What happened in the past let's bury in the past, leaving a good man just because of his past is not a wise thing for us to do. We don't know if we can find a better man than him or not. 

If we choose to stay, letting his past haunt us is not a good idea either because mentally it is not good for our health! 

For our own benefit, we have to let it go!


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## DDDCanada

Reading MariaR's posts made me realize I'm not the only person who is going through this (I was beginning to worry). I do feel resentment because my wife told me about the actual number within a month of being married (I am number 25). I felt so deflated because I felt I was deceived and that she intentionally waited until AFTER we were married to tell me the truth. I feel a sense of resentment towards her and don't look at our relationship in the same way. We were on such a high during our whirlwind romance, focused so intently on each other. Then I found out she contacted a married man that she had a fling with two years earlier to tell him she now knew was love was and had never been happier. She told me about this at the same time as she revealed the "number". I couldn't understand why she would do this and she couldn't explain other than to say she wanted him to know. She also told me about a 60 year married man she threw herself the year before she met and had a one-time encounter. She said she deeply regretted it but still met him for lunch last year after we were engaged. She told me about this during the same "number" conversation. She has no contact with any of these men but I'm not sure if it's because she thinks it's the right thing to do or if she feels obligated out of respect for me. I find it hard to look at my wife or our relationship the same way.


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## DDDCanada

Having been married once before and cheated on by my first wife (the only other woman I've had sex with), I feel like a failure for having fallen into my current situation.


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## greenpearl

DDDCanada said:


> Reading MariaR's posts made me realize I'm not the only person who is going through this (I was beginning to worry). I do feel resentment because my wife told me about the actual number within a month of being married (I am number 25). I felt so deflated because I felt I was deceived and that she intentionally waited until AFTER we were married to tell me the truth. I feel a sense of resentment towards her and don't look at our relationship in the same way. We were on such a high during our whirlwind romance, focused so intently on each other. Then I found out she contacted a married man that she had a fling with two years earlier to tell him she now knew was love was and had never been happier. She told me about this at the same time as she revealed the "number". I couldn't understand why she would do this and she couldn't explain other than to say she wanted him to know. She also told me about a 60 year married man she threw herself the year before she met and had a one-time encounter. She said she deeply regretted it but still met him for lunch last year after we were engaged. She told me about this during the same "number" conversation. She has no contact with any of these men but I'm not sure if it's because she thinks it's the right thing to do or if she feels obligated out of respect for me. I find it hard to look at my wife or our relationship the same way.


She is just trying to show off! 

It tells me that she is really happy with you! 

I want to take my husband and stand in front of some of the men who dumped me before. I want to let them know: ha ha ha, thank you for dumping me, because of you, now I have a wonderful husband and I live a very happy life. By the way, my husband's **** is much bigger than yours. He makes me very happy in bed. What kind of crappy sex life and what kind of crappy life do you have now? This is what I want to tell those men! 

But I have never done it! And I don't think I will ever do it. But I want to though! 

The men I had in my past are just some men for me to practice my skill! Ha ha ha....................

Sorry, DDD, you will find me horrible. 

But, hey, my husband doesn't mind my past, I told him everything before we actually got serious with each other, his feeling was intrigued by me rather than feeling shocked by me!

And tell you honestly, my husband and I have a very happy marriage together. His life is pretty organized because of him and because of me!


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## reachingshore

Deal with the facts.. Focus on the facts, on what you know for a fact. Don't focus on feelings. Don't lose your head.

For example: You knew she wasn't a virgin when you met. So rationally it doesn't and shouldn't matter whether it was a one guy before you or 20.

Another example: it's a fact she is with you, not with any of those other guys. Thus you are special to her. She wants to be with you and only you.


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## Therealbrighteyes

DDDCanada said:


> Reading MariaR's posts made me realize I'm not the only person who is going through this (I was beginning to worry). I do feel resentment because my wife told me about the actual number within a month of being married (I am number 25). I felt so deflated because I felt I was deceived and that she intentionally waited until AFTER we were married to tell me the truth. I feel a sense of resentment towards her and don't look at our relationship in the same way. We were on such a high during our whirlwind romance, focused so intently on each other. Then I found out she contacted a married man that she had a fling with two years earlier to tell him she now knew was love was and had never been happier. She told me about this at the same time as she revealed the "number". I couldn't understand why she would do this and she couldn't explain other than to say she wanted him to know. She also told me about a 60 year married man she threw herself the year before she met and had a one-time encounter. She said she deeply regretted it but still met him for lunch last year after we were engaged. She told me about this during the same "number" conversation. She has no contact with any of these men but I'm not sure if it's because she thinks it's the right thing to do or if she feels obligated out of respect for me. I find it hard to look at my wife or our relationship the same way.


Divorce her. Move on. I doubt you will though. You want to punish your wife for her actions long before she met you. You feed off of it. Mental abuse is your MO to a woman who already feels terrible about what she did. You made her feel that way. That isn't a marriage, that is a shaming parent/child relationship and sooner or later, the child rebels and rightfully so.


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## greenpearl

Please don't be bothered which number you are! 

As long as you are the only number now and you will be the last number, then you should consider yourself happy! 

Dealing with infidelity is much worse than this!


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## reachingshore

Ah, but you see.. as ridiculous as it sounds, what we feel at the onset of this feels like what one would feel because of infidelity.

It's when we realize this is not in fact infidelity, thus we shouldn't feel the way we do, thus we cease to feel the way we do - that's when we start getting past this.


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## Conrad

DDDCanada said:


> Reading MariaR's posts made me realize I'm not the only person who is going through this (I was beginning to worry). I do feel resentment because my wife told me about the actual number within a month of being married (I am number 25). I felt so deflated because I felt I was deceived and that she intentionally waited until AFTER we were married to tell me the truth. I feel a sense of resentment towards her and don't look at our relationship in the same way. We were on such a high during our whirlwind romance, focused so intently on each other. Then I found out she contacted a married man that she had a fling with two years earlier to tell him she now knew was love was and had never been happier. She told me about this at the same time as she revealed the "number". I couldn't understand why she would do this and she couldn't explain other than to say she wanted him to know. She also told me about a 60 year married man she threw herself the year before she met and had a one-time encounter. She said she deeply regretted it but still met him for lunch last year after we were engaged. She told me about this during the same "number" conversation. She has no contact with any of these men but I'm not sure if it's because she thinks it's the right thing to do or if she feels obligated out of respect for me. I find it hard to look at my wife or our relationship the same way.


In other words, you were just waiting for someone to agree with you.

How sad.


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## MariaR

DDD - I think her coming clean early in the marriage is definitely a good sign. But was your wife coming clean so that she could feel better about herself? So that she could look herself in the mirror? So that she could look at you with some integrity? So that she could tell herself that she was starting "fresh"? If so, those are good reasons but they are all selfish reasons.

That's what my husband has been doing after 8 yrs. If his MO was really about him loving and respecting me so much that I deserved the truth, he would have felt obligated to do the right thing before we got married, and not give it to me in increments throughout the years. (And don't jump on my work obligated, people... as I know some of you will.) 

I am self-employed and feel obligated to provide as much as my husband to our family. When the economy tanked, I felt obligated to look for other work. I feel obligated to go to all of my kids school functions as a show of love and support. For myself, I feel obligated to go to the gym, have regular lunches with friends, check in on older family members, volunteer in the community. The feeling of obligation SHOULD be present when you feel there is a promise or commitment that you made to yourself, that these things or people matter to you and to the integrity of who you are. 

As a husband/wife I believe we do have obligations toward each other. And these go back to our vows... love, honor, cherish, respect, and so on. 

DDD, at the end of the day there is something called a Rule and then there is the Exception to the Rule. The Rule is a pattern, a personality trait, a person's character. For you, you're rule is very clear with how you value that intimate part of your life... and so is mine. You have to ask yourself which it is for your wife. Though I believe that her actions will change for the sake of the marriage and her love for you, maybe her "rule" just isn't the same as yours. It doesn't make her a bad person, it doesn't mean you can't love her in your heart. But it does mean that if at the core it conflicts or disrespects you, it is ok to question the integrity of your marriage and/or to walk away.

Don't get me wrong, I love(d) my husband and we were inseparable when we first got together. He was loving and unique, and proved himself to be a good guy. He was "the one" that I would share my life with til the end... he was "the one" that was never going to hurt me... he was "the one" that just gets me and will help me to grow to be a better person every day. After all, that's what I gave him.
But It's not a question of finding "the one". It is, however, a matter of finding "one that is right for you."

My husband is a great guy in a lot of ways. And in the areas where it falls under "not so great" (and I know we all have them), they just happen to fall under an area that I don't think I can reconcile with. Unfortunately, I fell in love with both the real him and the illusion of him. Now knowing the real him... past and all... in that he broke my trust... in that his attitude and perspective hasn't changed.. and how that will impact the way I view him and our marriage 40 years from now... would I marry him all over again? The answer is no.


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## MariaR

haha... sorry I posted this sentiment on a couple of different blogs and realized I was pretty redundant. 

We all have high standards for something... whether it's lifestyle, our physical attractiveness, religious morals, etc. Bottom line... if it matters to you, it matters period.


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## F-102

Or.. is she trying to prove to her H how attractive and desirable she is?
"You better consider yourself damn f***ing lucky that you got me!"

Not trying to scare you, DDD, but I had a GF a long time ago who used this same tactic.


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## DDDCanada

Thanks for the comment F-102. I don't believe she thinking what you suggested. She got herself into situations in the past because she had low self-esteem, not because she felt like someone would be lucky to be with her.


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## Heinz Doofenshmirtz

Hi all,

I'm new here and have read this entire thread through because I have had, and still sometimes do have, the exact same issues as 3D here…

My wife had a much more 'active' past than I did when we met, despite my being almost 11 years her senior, not that I was saving myself or anything like that. Early on in our relationship, before we got married, she said things and told me honestly about the number of previous partners she'd had, and it did have an effect on me. At the time she was 19 and I was 30, and she'd already had 30 partners whereas I'd had not even half that… Sometimes it still does affect the way I relate to her.

I too went through a period of judgment of her; viewing myself as 'superior' to her and trying to get her to admit in some way that what she had done was 'wrong' or 'bad' or the like. I also went through a lot of depression and insecurity because of her past because *I* was the one comparing myself to her past. Then there were the times where I'd think her behavior was only because of self esteem issues and was a way to seek approval and attention from men by giving them sex. While she did have self esteem issues back them, she has never claimed that it was what motivated her behavior, because unlike 3D's wife, my wife has said repeatedly she has no regrets about her behavior, and doesn't think she did anything wrong except the times she got careless and got too drunk and ended up being taken advantage of (read; raped) at those times. 

Now, that certainly didn't make it easier for me to deal with my own fears and insecurities about our sexual relationship because of what she told me about her past partners and experiences. And I'd be lying if I said I don't still struggle with it at times even after 14 years of marriage. I would constantly ask myself what she might see in me given all that she had done before, and especially that she said she DID enjoy her experiences. I sometimes still ask myself that same question even today. 

But, I have realized that it is my own fears and insecurities that have driven the way I have acted toward her in the past, and sometimes they still do affect the way I relate to her. She also is not a very communicative person in terms of her feelings, and my behavior toward her, with my judgmentality of her only creating even more of a communications gap between us. 

My point here is that 1) it is MY FEAR that motivated my behavior towards her, even though it was based on her behavior, it was MY ISSUES that were the biggest part of the problem, and 2) reading this thread has helped me get some perspective on those issues I have and how I have related to her in the past, and sometimes still do; reading this thread has been very helpful to me to continue to make progress on those issues. 

Our current relationship status is simply best put as "in the toilet"… we are essentially leading parallel lives, and are for the most part just 'roommates' any more. Not that I want it to be that way, but I mention it because our sexual relationship is non-existent at this point, which itself is another issue I struggle with trying to not make comparisons of myself now to her past, let alone what I was like back when we met. But again, this thread has been very helpful to me in seeing my own behavior and how it has affected my relationship with my wife, and hopefully if/when things get better between us and we can reestablish a physical relationship, I will have more experience, more self knowledge, and better psychological tools to not judge her, condemn her, and so on.

So in closing, thanks everyone for all you've posted here. It has been helpful for me.


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## DDDCanada

I'm glad it's been helpful.


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## committed4life

I personally wouldn't marry woman with so many ex sex partners


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## fatiguedfatherof4

Dude it could be ALOT worse. During a separation betwen my wife and I about 10 years ago she slept with 9 guys (that I know of) and uses the excuse... "we werent together at that time!" Uh, we were technically still married but whatever. It still bothers me to this day but we now have 4 wonderful children and things are, for the most part, great.
That # of guys was just during our separation (14 months!) and I know only an ESTIMATE of the TOTAL # of men she slept with. But I have to look past that if I'm willing to stay... and if I'm willing to stay why do I want to be miserable?
I hope my :It could be worse.." advice helps ANYONE!


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## MisguidedMiscreant

So, she has a history of sleeping around and has lied to you about it?


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## boxer

Wow, I have read this entire thread, and I'm astounded! All the men here pat themselves on the back for having accepted what amounts to sleazy, lying prostitutes into their lives. Then they gang up and shame DDDCanada for actually having some self-respect.

DDDCanada: Cheers to you for having the dignity and honor to stand by your principles. A woman who has more than 20 sex partners is a prostitute. That doesn't make her a terrible person, it just means she is not fit to be a man's wife or mother of his children. Modernity has produced lots of prostitutes, in fact, it has lowered most women into exactly that status. Well, so what? Why should these women expect men to marry them? They should accept their chosen lot in life. No one forced them to have such sordid histories. The majority of American and Canadian women also carry the deadly, cancer causing virus HPV, too. Are we supposed to shame and insult anyone who doesn't want a sleazy STD, just because it's the majority?

Do not lose hope and do not take anyone here seriously. I'd dump that woman pronto before she gets her hands on any of your assets, and just stay single until you find someone who deserves you. 

Peace, bro.


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## boxer

fatiguedfatherof4 said:


> Dude it could be ALOT worse. During a separation betwen my wife and I about 10 years ago she slept with 9 guys (that I know of) and uses the excuse... "we werent together at that time!" Uh, we were technically still married but whatever. It still bothers me to this day but we now have 4 wonderful children and things are, for the most part, great.
> That # of guys was just during our separation (14 months!) and I know only an ESTIMATE of the TOTAL # of men she slept with. But I have to look past that if I'm willing to stay... and if I'm willing to stay why do I want to be miserable?
> I hope my :It could be worse.." advice helps ANYONE!


Ugh. Gross. I hope you got DNA tests for your kids. Get AIDS and HPV tests regularly too. Stay safe. A woman who will do that will never be monogamous.


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## JeffX

Ok, if she wasn't out getting money for sex with these guys that doesn't mean she's a prostitute. She's had more partners and that is fine. She is with you know and that is all that should matter. 

Just to let you know, my soon to be wife has had more partners than me. I'm not going to lie, and say I don't worry about it. At first it weighed on my mind on whether I could be a good lover. But I'm confident enough in my skills that she is very satisfied with our sex life. And those guys in her past are in her past. What you did in your past, shouldn't have any effect on your current relationship. Leave the baggage at the door, and move on.


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## MisguidedMiscreant

JeffX said:


> Ok, if she wasn't out getting money for sex with these guys that doesn't mean she's a prostitute. She's had more partners and that is fine. She is with you know and that is all that should matter.
> 
> Just to let you know, my soon to be wife has had more partners than me. I'm not going to lie, and say I don't worry about it. At first it weighed on my mind on whether I could be a good lover. But I'm confident enough in my skills that she is very satisfied with our sex life. And those guys in her past are in her past. What you did in your past, shouldn't have any effect on your current relationship. Leave the baggage at the door, and move on.


Everytime you sleep with someone, you leave a piece of yourself with that person. Do you really think there's anything left other than a facade they may be putting up to please you for the moment? Look at the OP's case, she's already lying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JeffX

MisguidedMiscreant said:


> Everytime you sleep with someone, you leave a piece of yourself with that person. Do you really think there's anything left other than a facade they may be putting up to please you for the moment? Look at the OP's case, she's already lying.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She did lie and that's still wrong, but she admitted she regretted sleeping with those guys. Even if she didn't regret it, I fail to see how it has any effect on their current sex life or their marriage. Unless she is telling him that he isn't as good as her past partners. Then I can see a problem. But if you think because a woman has slept with a certain amount of men that makes her less desirable than I feel sorry for you. Does the same thought occur for men who go out and sleep with twenty plus women?


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## confusedwantingmore

JeffX said:


> She did lie and that's still wrong, but she admitted she regretted sleeping with those guys. Even if she didn't regret it, I fail to see how it has any effect on their current sex life or their marriage. Unless she is telling him that he isn't as good as her past partners. Then I can see a problem. But if you think because a woman has slept with a certain amount of men that makes her less desirable than I feel sorry for you. Does the same thought occur for men who go out and sleep with twenty plus women?


:iagree: I was thinking the same thing. 
Of course Boxer is without ANY sin, but the rest of us are only human. I have been with 3 people in my almost 30 years and have never been married. I am not perfect, but the mistakes I have made are just that, mistakes. Doesn't your faith teach you to forgive sin? If you love your wife don't judge her for the past she had before you. 
BTW, did you sleep with your first wife more than 24 times? If so, does your wife make you feel bad about that past you had with her?


----------



## MisguidedMiscreant

I believe in forgiveness but we must never forget. So, she's absolved just because she later told the truth after lying initially? Can we say the same for criminals? Also, it is as bad with men because you leave a piece of yourself with every person you sleep with. The only difference is that men move through life differently than women. It really doesn't matter anyway because women seem to get turned on by a man that's had multiple encounters.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hollander77

I'm a guy and while I agree that your love for your wife should get you past any previous sexual experiences, I still think they're worth talking about. For me, it helped to hear the context of my fiancee's prior relationships and I want to know more, even though she's a little uncomfortable talking about it, even though she knows I love her. I don't agree that the past doesn't matter at all or that "it's none of my business" simply because as parents some day, I think we should learn and teach from our shared experiences and mistakes. Am I wrong?


----------



## Conrad

Yes


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

boxer said:


> Wow, I have read this entire thread, and I'm astounded! All the men here pat themselves on the back for having accepted what amounts to sleazy, lying prostitutes into their lives. Then they gang up and shame DDDCanada for actually having some self-respect.
> 
> DDDCanada: Cheers to you for having the dignity and honor to stand by your principles. A woman who has more than 20 sex partners is a prostitute. That doesn't make her a terrible person, it just means she is not fit to be a man's wife or mother of his children. Modernity has produced lots of prostitutes, in fact, it has lowered most women into exactly that status. Well, so what? Why should these women expect men to marry them? They should accept their chosen lot in life. No one forced them to have such sordid histories. The majority of American and Canadian women also carry the deadly, cancer causing virus HPV, too. Are we supposed to shame and insult anyone who doesn't want a sleazy STD, just because it's the majority?
> 
> Do not lose hope and do not take anyone here seriously. I'd dump that woman pronto before she gets her hands on any of your assets, and just stay single until you find someone who deserves you.
> 
> Peace, bro.


A woman who has more than 20 sex partners is a prostitute? Do you know what a prostitute is?
Also do you know that vaginal HPV is transmitted to women by men but naturally it is the women who are "sleazy".
That of course means little to you as you have made up your mind about non-virginal women. As for one not being qualified to be your wife or the mother of your child, fear not, they won't be lining up around the block to marry you. They're to busy chasing the ones who aren't judgmental women haters.

Peace, "bro".


----------



## MEM2020

Hollander,
I want you to honestly answer this question:
Is your exploration primarily fueled by a desire to understand?
Or it is by the need to manage your own anxieties and insecurities?

Because you sure seem anxious. I have news for you. You either satisfy her in bed or you don't. You are either good company outside bed or not. 

If you do - you are fine. If you don't - you need to learn how to. 

If you want to manage your "anxiety" you do that by paying attention to the way she reacts to you - and improving your performance. Digging into her past just makes you seem insecure. 



hollander77 said:


> I'm a guy and while I agree that your love for your wife should get you past any previous sexual experiences, I still think they're worth talking about. For me, it helped to hear the context of my fiancee's prior relationships and I want to know more, even though she's a little uncomfortable talking about it, even though she knows I love her. I don't agree that the past doesn't matter at all or that "it's none of my business" simply because as parents some day, I think we should learn and teach from our shared experiences and mistakes. Am I wrong?


----------



## boxer

Brennan said:


> A woman who has more than 20 sex partners is a prostitute? Do you know what a prostitute is?
> Also do you know that vaginal HPV is transmitted to women by men but naturally it is the women who are "sleazy".
> That of course means little to you as you have made up your mind about non-virginal women. As for one not being qualified to be your wife or the mother of your child, fear not, they won't be lining up around the block to marry you. They're to busy chasing the ones who aren't judgmental women haters.
> 
> Peace, "bro".


Wow, I am so broken hearted that nasty, lying, sleazy women don't want to marry me. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

I get all my needs met without inviting scum into my life. If I didn't, I'd much rather be celibate. A man's life is wonderful without a woman in it. I definitely don't want to marry any woman who has had three or more sex partners, and in fact don't want to marry any women at all. I will have more money, more time to do what I want, and a much better life without one.

I also get more sex right now than the vast majority of married guys on this forum, by their own admissions, so I don't see why you'd assume marriage has anything to do with having sex. Women seem to lose all interest in sex once they have the wedding.

I trust that clears up my position on the matter. Peace back to you, "bro".


----------



## JJG

I really feel sorry for people with such narrow minded views . . . . they end up missing out on so much of life . . . . 

(shugs) Oh well, your loss


----------



## MEM2020

Boxer,
How many sexual partners have you had? 




boxer said:


> Wow, I am so broken hearted that nasty, lying, sleazy women don't want to marry me. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
> 
> I get all my needs met without inviting scum into my life. If I didn't, I'd much rather be celibate. A man's life is wonderful without a woman in it. I definitely don't want to marry any woman who has had three or more sex partners, and in fact don't want to marry any women at all. I will have more money, more time to do what I want, and a much better life without one.
> 
> I also get more sex right now than the vast majority of married guys on this forum, by their own admissions, so I don't see why you'd assume marriage has anything to do with having sex. Women seem to lose all interest in sex once they have the wedding.
> 
> I trust that clears up my position on the matter. Peace back to you, "bro".


----------



## WhereAmI

boxer said:


> I also get more sex right now than the vast majority of married guys on this forum, by their own admissions, so I don't see why you'd assume marriage has anything to do with having sex. Women seem to lose all interest in sex once they have the wedding.


You work at creating your definition of a ***** by adding another notch to their bedpost, but you condemn them once they've hit the magical number three. That's class.


----------



## Star

boxer said:


> Wow, I am so broken hearted that nasty, lying, sleazy women don't want to marry me. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
> 
> I get all my needs met without inviting scum into my life. If I didn't, I'd much rather be celibate. A man's life is wonderful without a woman in it. I definitely don't want to marry any woman who has had three or more sex partners, and in fact don't want to marry any women at all. I will have more money, more time to do what I want, and a much better life without one.
> 
> I also get more sex right now than the vast majority of married guys on this forum, by their own admissions, so I don't see why you'd assume marriage has anything to do with having sex. Women seem to lose all interest in sex once they have the wedding.
> 
> I trust that clears up my position on the matter. Peace back to you, "bro".



Wow!! Spoken like a true loser.

You have contradicted yourself by saying that you would much rather be celibate? If this is the case why do you continue to have sexual relations? After all part of being celibate is to abstain from sexual intercourse and not just marriage, you appear to talk the talk about not wanting/needing women BUT you don’t walk the walk? :scratchhead:

Clearly you do want women more that you care to admit Lol. and if a man’s life is so wonderful without women in it why do you feel the need to keep going back to the one thing you clearly dislike so much and have sex with them? You are one confused individual and not a very happy bunny at that, as you are so full of bitterness.

I find it hard to believe that you are actually having sex? with women?, or perhaps you are just having wet dreams?

Oh well, no accounting for taste in some people. 

:lol:


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

MEM11363 said:


> Boxer,
> How many sexual partners have you had?


Does his hand count?


----------



## SimplyAmorous

His Motto is -if he can get the milk for free, why buy the cow. Isn't nothing new under the sun. Maybe he is good looking and can be choosey. That is the way it works, unfortunetely.

In reality, too many women fall under the spell of a charming man, some MEN are excellent actors, they give themselves too quickly, without putting the man to THE TEST , to see what he is made of, to see where his heart is at, if his actions speak louder than his words. I know to expect such behavior from SOME men. NOT ALL. Just the reality we live in today. If we change who we are, they will have to change along with us. I would not want to marry a man like Boxer. 

But I would also not be putting myself out there -if he was not the marrying type -feeling as he does about women, so nobody gets hurt. 

Just teach your daughters this, and don't worry about his type, they will always be among us.


----------



## confusedwantingmore

It is very ironic that Boxer is even voicing his rude and presumptions opinion due to the fact that he seems to be just like the men the OP is so worried that his wife has slept with in the past. 
He sleeps with women and gets “all the sex he wants” and thus turns the women he sleeps with into the women that are so “unworthy” of him? 
What a hypocrite to call this mans wife a prostitute, how many women have you slept with Boxer? And HANDgelica doesn’t count!


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Yeah, that way of thinking is a real gem. And by gem I mean polished turd.


----------



## michzz

Trolling opportunity executed perfectly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## typewittyusernamehere

michzz said:


> Trolling opportunity executed perfectly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



yup


----------



## justagal

DDDCanada,

What you are experiencing is normal, because you and your wife have a mismatch sexual past. You, as a man who only sleep with 2 women for your whole life are married with a woman with 20+ partners. In simpler words, you are not incompatible with her as both sexual pasts are vastly different. So, again, your worry and anxiety are justified.

The source of all this problem is she did not tell you the truth before you married her. IMHO, every partner must give full disclosure of their sexual past before marriage so that there will be no regrets after marrying. To not do so will make a person feel cheated into marrying.

But now you know the truth. Sad to say, there is no right solution for your problem. You must think clearly before making any decision. If you stay, you must face the possibilities you will always be haunted and sometimes feel anxious if she contacted her old sex partners. It could take days, weeks, month or years to overcome this. This resentment you feeling is not wrong, because you are in a way has been fooled on marrying her.


----------



## boxer

Interesting to see the female/mangina shaming language at work. I guess when you don't have a logical argument you just attack whoever is telling the truth.

It's the married men here who are using their hands mostly. I don't blame them, and they'll be healthier using their hands in the long term than touching their wives. I have read so many posts here about unfaithful women giving their husbands diseases (including one I just read where the poor man got AIDS) that it's really the only alternative to a latex condom, even in marriage, for a man who wants to live a healthy life.

You ladies are sure making a name for yourselves with your abhorrent behavior here on this forum. This is rapidly becoming a popular place for those of us (happy bachelors/players) who want to educate our younger brothers on the disaster which is marriage to a modern "liberated" woman. Good work.


----------



## DDDCanada

I haven't checked this thread for a while and am surprised that it has continued on so strongly. Things have actually gotten worse between my wife and I recently. While she realizes that she made poor choices and openly admits to it, it has becomes increasingly difficult for her to discuss. I love my wife dearly but struggle with the thought of all these other people having sex with her. She acknowledges that she was "too easy" and made many mistakes. I feel as though I've forced her to change because she's stopped speaking with people from the past. It's been very difficult for me because intimacy is something I take very seriously and consider special.


----------



## JeffX

DDDCanada said:


> I haven't checked this thread for a while and am surprised that it has continued on so strongly. Things have actually gotten worse between my wife and I recently. While she realizes that she made poor choices and openly admits to it, it has becomes increasingly difficult for her to discuss. I love my wife dearly but struggle with the thought of all these other people having sex with her. She acknowledges that she was "too easy" and made many mistakes. I feel as though I've forced her to change because she's stopped speaking with people from the past. It's been very difficult for me because intimacy is something I take very seriously and consider special.


So why does it matter that she slept with these guys in the past? She's sleeping with you know, right? What happened years ago doesn't matter. It is what is happening right here and now that is important.


----------



## DDDCanada

JeffX, the issue I have with that perspective is that you're living "for the moment" and dealing with the potential ripple effects of your actions on both yourself and others.


----------



## boxer

DDDCanada said:


> I haven't checked this thread for a while and am surprised that it has continued on so strongly. Things have actually gotten worse between my wife and I recently. While she realizes that she made poor choices and openly admits to it, it has becomes increasingly difficult for her to discuss. I love my wife dearly but struggle with the thought of all these other people having sex with her. She acknowledges that she was "too easy" and made many mistakes. I feel as though I've forced her to change because she's stopped speaking with people from the past. It's been very difficult for me because intimacy is something I take very seriously and consider special.


Hi DDD. 

I am not surprised that things have gotten worse. 

The Social Pathologist: Sexual Partner Divorce Risk

Women who have more than two sex partners before marriage have a very low relationship success rate. This is the truth behind all the old adages we heard as men. 

Basically, a healthy woman will bond the first time and only once with her husband. If she is banged out before marriage, she is not wife material. All the old wisdom has scientific basis, it turns out. 

What to do or suggest, I don't know, as I have never been married to one of these types, and don't plan to marry anyone like that. 

I do wish you well. I am sure it is very difficult, and I respect all the hard work and energy you're putting in, when you're not getting anything back from her. You're a good guy.

Peace bro, Boxer.


----------



## JeffX

DDDCanada said:


> JeffX, the issue I have with that perspective is that you're living "for the moment" and dealing with the potential ripple effects of your actions on both yourself and others.



What ripple effects? How does her having more partners than you, have any bearing on your current relationship? Are you intimidated by it?


----------



## boxer

JeffX said:


> What ripple effects? How does her having more partners than you, have any bearing on your current relationship? Are you intimidated by it?


What exactly is so difficult for you to understand? I understand him perfectly. Maybe you could ask him a specific question, or maybe you're just being difficult and trying to shame him into accepting something beneath his standards.


----------



## JeffX

boxer said:


> What exactly is so difficult for you to understand? I understand him perfectly. Maybe you could ask him a specific question, or maybe you're just being difficult and trying to shame him into accepting something beneath his standards.


I'm asking him legitimate questions and you're trying to force your misguided, closed-minded views on everyone else.


----------



## boxer

JeffX said:


> I'm asking him legitimate questions and you're trying to force your misguided, closed-minded views on everyone else.


You're badgering the OP by repeating the same question ad nauseum. He has already answered you.

You have already made it clear that you don't care what your own wife has done, and this is your right. Some of us take intimacy much more seriously than you obviously do. The OP is one of these people. He has a right to his values, and you should quit trying to force your misguided, closed-minded views on him, shaming him and implying that he is somehow "wrong" for holding to his values.

Hope this helps you to understand your own position. Do post again and keep trolling the thread. LOL!


----------



## sisters359

When sexuality returns to its normal place in human relations, everyone benefits. More and more people are learning to see sex as something that is simply "fun," not something endowed with all this special meaning. IMHO, that is a GOOD thing. Girls will stop sleeping with guys for the wrong reasons (usually something to do with trying to "hook" a guy), and guys will stop seeing sexual partners as "conquests." I know we aren't there yet, and it may well take some time, but the difference is already noticeable in some younger people. I've met younger women with very healthy attitude towards sex--and that doesn't mean they have no standards, either; in fact, they expect more from a sexual partner, not less, and they are willing to get their needs met. 

For far too long, marriage has been about "legalized sex." We don't live in that world anymore, but social mores are slow to change. I have no doubt that people will be happier--and a lot less hung up about sex--when we create societies that encourage normal, healthy sexual relationships with or without marriage. 

The key issue is--and always has been--about who will take responsibility for a child? This is not just about money; it's also about parenting and raising children, which is also about time. Today men are being held financially accountable for the children they father, but child support does not compensate for the time a parent (mother) gives to parenting--for the extra time off work with a sick child, etc. For the most part, men have still shown themselves much less willing to make the many career sacrifices that parenting requires. Our economic environment punishes people who do. 

As for boxer, how did anyone come up with the "magic number" of 20? 19 partners, not a "prostitute," but 20 is? I think it should be 17 . . . or 27. Not sure. I just like 7s.


----------



## greenpearl

Boxer,

How are you going to help DDD's marriage? 

That's what I am more concerned!

According to what you said, DDD's wife is not worthy of him. But now they are married, what should they do? What's your advice!


----------



## MEM2020

Boxer,
Much as I prefer not to repeat myself, I feel obligated to do so since you chose not to answer the single, simple question that I posed to you. 

How many sexual partners have you had? How long were those relationships? Is your premise that both men and women should wait until marriage to have sex? Is that what you are doing? How old are you?




boxer said:


> What exactly is so difficult for you to understand? I understand him perfectly. Maybe you could ask him a specific question, or maybe you're just being difficult and trying to shame him into accepting something beneath his standards.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

I also would be curious to know this - how many partners Boxer has had - if he feels men are morally allowed to be promiscuous-held at a different standard somehow -- or men & women should have the same moral standards?

I will have more respect for him if he feels men are held to the same. I do think it is harder for men to remain a virgin, so when one does, I can understand him desiring to marry a virgin as well.


----------



## greenpearl

SimplyAmorous said:


> I also would be curious to know this - how many partners Boxer has had - if he feels men are morally allowed to be promiscuous-held at a different standard somehow -- or men & women should have the same moral standards?
> 
> I will have more respect for him if he feels men are held to the same. I do think it is harder for men to remain a virgin, so when one does, I can understand him desiring to marry a virgin as well.


SA,

We all know very well when a guy and a girl are dating, it is the guy who wants sex more than the girl does. The girl is being pushed into losing her virginity. Men are just lucky that they have a choice to lie. 

I think we are talking to a boy who hasn't experienced much!


----------



## boxer

greenpearl said:


> SA,
> 
> We all know very well when a guy and a girl are dating, it is the guy who wants sex more than the girl does. The girl is being pushed into losing her virginity. Men are just lucky that they have a choice to lie.
> 
> I think we are talking to a boy who hasn't experienced much!


You're talking to a man who sees you for exactly what you are: someone of no consequence whatever.

As for the last question, I am here to support DDD not to give him advice. I certainly wouldn't marry anyone like this and as such can't tell him what to do or pass insolent judgment on him as you and your ilk have done. I'm merely a sympathetic person who listens to what he has to say without prejudice.

Happy to help you this afternoon. Boxer.


----------



## boxer

SimplyAmorous said:


> I also would be curious to know this - how many partners Boxer has had - if he feels men are morally allowed to be promiscuous-held at a different standard somehow -- or men & women should have the same moral standards?
> 
> I will have more respect for him if he feels men are held to the same. I do think it is harder for men to remain a virgin, so when one does, I can understand him desiring to marry a virgin as well.


What you're doing is creating a logical fallacy to argue against, because you can't defeat the real argument. It's called a straw man. 

As for me, I'm not married and wouldn't want to be. This forum and the behavior of women here would turn any reasonable man off marriage. 

Most of the married men here are functional virgins, and many of them talk about not having sex for years. With that in mind, I'd be in good company if I were one.

Keep spinning that hamster, and I'll keep laughing.


----------



## greenpearl

boxer said:


> Happy to help you this afternoon. Boxer.


Hello, baby, I love you!


----------



## greenpearl

boxer said:


> What you're doing is creating a logical fallacy to argue against, because you can't defeat the real argument. It's called a straw man.
> 
> As for me, I'm not married and wouldn't want to be. This forum and the behavior of women here would turn any reasonable man off marriage.
> 
> Most of the married men here are functional virgins, and many of them talk about not having sex for years. With that in mind, I'd be in good company if I were one.
> 
> Keep spinning that hamster, and I'll keep laughing.


Baby, you are such a unique jem!


----------



## boxer

MEM11363 said:


> Boxer,
> Much as I prefer not to repeat myself, I feel obligated to do so since you chose not to answer the single, simple question that I posed to you.
> 
> How many sexual partners have you had? How long were those relationships? Is your premise that both men and women should wait until marriage to have sex? Is that what you are doing? How old are you?


I lost count after I got out of my teenage years. The difference between myself and the women here is that I don't lie, pretend to be virginal or pure, in order to nab a sucker and have that chump pay me alimony and child support and buy me a house.

I am not going to be married. I strongly suggest this to you and most of the other banged out people here too. Life is great without marriage, and I don't know why so many here need to commit fraud, pretending to be something they are not, making a spouse miserable in the process. That seems to be the MO of most American women nowadays.


----------



## greenpearl

boxer said:


> I lost count after I got out of my teenage years. The difference between myself and the women here is that I don't lie, pretend to be virginal or pure, in order to nab a sucker and have that chump pay me alimony and child support and buy me a house.
> 
> I am not going to be married. I strongly suggest this to you and most of the other banged out people here too. Life is great without marriage, and I don't know why so many here need to commit fraud, pretending to be something they are not, making a spouse miserable in the process. That seems to be the MO of most American women nowadays.


Baby, have you been hurt by a woman?


----------



## boxer

greenpearl said:


> Baby, you are such a unique jem!


I know. It must suck not to have all the usual female shaming tactics working for you.

Your next trick will be to whine at the admin until I'm banned. LOL!


----------



## boxer

greenpearl said:


> Baby, have you been hurt by a woman?


No, but most of the men here have. Their stories are truly harrowing and this is one of the best sites to send young men to. Women like you teach the teenage guys what women are really all about. 

Thanks, by the way.


----------



## greenpearl

boxer said:


> I know. It must suck not to have all the usual female shaming tactics working for you.
> 
> Your next trick will be to whine at the admin until I'm banned. LOL!


Baby, you don't need to worry about me for that! I won't rat you! Not my business! 

I respect your opinion! 

I respect your choice of life. 

Baby, have a nice evening!


----------



## boxer

MGirl said:


> Boxer-- Do you also go by the username "steak"? Just wondering...you teenage boys must be having a riot on these forums. You must get such a thrill out of stirring up trouble here. Find something more productive to do with your free time


Of course, my little paranoiac. I'm "steak", and I'm also the guy who was on the grassy knoll. I'm probably hiding under your bed right now. 

It sucks to have someone burst your bubble, doesn't it? No matter. Keep obsessing about me. It's entertaining.


----------



## greenpearl

boxer said:


> Of course, my little paranoiac. I'm "steak", and I'm also the guy who was on the grassy knoll. I'm probably hiding under your bed right now.
> 
> It sucks to have someone burst your bubble, doesn't it? No matter. Keep obsessing about me. It's entertaining.


I like to entertain you! 

Talking to you is entertaining for me too!


----------



## sisters359

The straw man arguments are that "women who have had more than 20 partners are prostitutes" and all the other animosity toward women that has been presented as "fact." 

Yes, there are women who are materialistic and selfish--just as there are men of the same kind. There are also women who slept around before marriage--just as many men have done. Suggesting that women use sex just to catch a man, with the plan of ripping him off financially at some future point, sounds like something out of the 1950s or 1960s. Very few women would be stupid enough to do this today (although there some out there). Too many women believe that their security lies IN marriage, not in getting divorced. Statistically, men are much better off financially than women after divorce, because they haven't sacrificed their careers as much as wives/mothers have. 

You are entitled to your opinion, Boxer, but please do not try to present it as "fact." 

The OP is married and loves his wife, but he has begun obsessing about her past. The problem is not her past, but his obsession about it. Her past was always there, and he *knew* she had more sexual experience than him. He also knew that, outside of that, she was a person he found loveable. She is *still* the same person he fell in love with. 

OP, you owe it to yourself to figure out if you can get past this. Counseling is probably essential. If not, you know you tried, and you can leave with a clear conscience. Just know that relatively few people today believe that sex is as special as you think it is. That does not mean you are "wrong" at all. You are entitled to your opinion--but so are others. They are not "wrong" either. But your opinion means you may find it harder to find someone new, that's all.


----------



## Scannerguard

I personally think the forum is gonig about this all wrong and doing too much pontificating and ruminating over sexual past and morality. If posting = sex here at TAM, it would be a virtual orgy of information here.

May I suggest something to the original poster?

Why don't the two you get a book on Tantric Sex and explore deepening your sexual-spirtual experience as a married couple as a therapeutic exercise to combat this mental masturbation you are engaging in. Practice in reveling in you two being for each other and only each other.

Explore ways to pleasure each other for hours and deepen the bond and love you have for each other. Then come back here and talk more about this and tell us how you forgot all about this subject.

Doing all this incessant and petulant "talk therapy" psychobabble will get you no where and you'll go in circles.

Enough talk. More making love.


----------



## TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore

Scannerguard said:


> I personally think the forum is gonig about this all wrong and doing too much pontificating and ruminating over sexual past and morality.


Well stated!!! 

Curiosity got the better of me how this thread had so many replies posted. Still questioning myself why I read the entire thing. There are quite a range of opinions out there. :scratchhead:

Devastating to now think how I could have inadvertently turned some of my mares into “prostitutes”. I hope they will forgive me. Believe I will side with an old cowboy friend on this one. “It’s just breeding.” :rofl:

Good grief, I obviously need more of a life the Saturday evenings my son has visitations with his father.


----------



## DDDCanada

Still struggling with things but trying to take it one day at a time. I'm worried I won't ever be able to get over this.


----------



## sealman1966

DDD wrote --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The revised number of 24 concerns me more and the fact that she lied about it. 

I am late to the dance here but will put my two cents in. Most of what I am going to say has been said in this thread.

The revised number bothers you more than the fact she lied about it.

Try this mental technique to get over the number--who cares if she has had (2, 3, 24, 37, 126, or 532) guys before me, she chose me out of all those guys so I must be a real catch. Second, she was desirable enough for other guys to want to spend time with her. Better that than some old, fat, geeky cow no one wanted.

On the fact she was not truthful initially try this mindset--she loved me enough to come clean, did not want to keep secrets from me. She lied about the number because she loves me, wanted to be with me, and most likely knew how I would react.

Remember this, she did not have to tell you the real number, it could have been her secret. The fact she told you shows she is trustworthy. I think deep down in your heart, soul,and mind, you know she has no problem getting interest from other guys and you are afraid of losing her.

Her body belongs to her, and she voluntary shares it with you. You dont own it, you did not before, and you will not after she leaves you.

I read every reply you posted in this thread and it appears to me that you keep bringing it up and using her past as a sword to slice her mentally. This means you do not really lover her, and you are all hung up on how she could waste her time with other guys. 

Your wife is wasting her time with you. Your problem is that you think you do not measure up to her other guys, and right now in your desperate, clingy state you are correct.

She already has low self esteem and instead of building her up you are rubbing salt in a wound.

Lets be clear here, you are emotionally abusing your wife over something that cannot be changed. In a marriage, any type of abuse is unacceptable. Be it emotional, physical, or a combination they are all seperate and as a whole destructive.

You are interferring with her right to happiness, joy, and protection. You are supposed to be her best friend, lover, confidant, and most importantly her protector. 

You took a vow in front of God, both of your families, and your friends to honor and cherish her. You are not living up to your vow because you are too busy running around worrying about her breaking her marriage vows.

The fact the she stays with you shows she is serious about keeping her vows.

You are also damaging yourself, and your right to joy and happiness. I am no doctor, but you should go see one and ask about Morbid jealousy, retroactive jealousy, and OCD. The problem is in your mind, which is powerful like a waterfall. You are letting your emotions control you instead of the other way around.

My advice: your wife showed her trustworthiness in disclosing this fact, she did not have to do it. You should respond by letting bygones be bygones, and never bringing this up to her again. You should also get down on bended knee and beg her forgiveness for behaving like a macho, insecure, ego maniac.

If you keep up with this abuse, do not get help fixing your own head, and continue down this path she will walk out the door and she will feel like a weight has been lifted. She will never come back.

It will become a self fullfilling proficy, and she will find another man who will treat her right, and give her toe curling multiple orgasms in every horny position you can imagine. She will tell him about you and your insecurities and they will laugh about it together after a hot, steamy, bedroom romp.

It is up to you to man up and fix this problem. You said your ex-wife cheated on you. I have to ask you, did you have real evidence or did you initiate divorce based on suspicion alone?

You should spend your time enjoying your wife, building her self esteem, and cherishing your time together

Listen to the song "One" by U2, or get a lyric sheet on line and read the sentiment.

Good luck and God bless you and your wife.

Peace,
Sealman 1966


----------



## Entropy3000

sealman1966 said:


> DDD wrote --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> The revised number of 24 concerns me more and the fact that she lied about it.
> 
> I am late to the dance here but will put my two cents in. Most of what I am going to say has been said in this thread.
> 
> The revised number bothers you more than the fact she lied about it.
> 
> Try this mental technique to get over the number--who cares if she has had (2, 3, 24, 37, 126, or 532) guys before me, she chose me out of all those guys so I must be a real catch. Second, she was desirable enough for other guys to want to spend time with her. Better that than some old, fat, geeky cow no one wanted.
> 
> On the fact she was not truthful initially try this mindset--she loved me enough to come clean, did not want to keep secrets from me. She lied about the number because she loves me, wanted to be with me, and most likely knew how I would react.
> 
> Remember this, she did not have to tell you the real number, it could have been her secret. The fact she told you shows she is trustworthy. I think deep down in your heart, soul,and mind, you know she has no problem getting interest from other guys and you are afraid of losing her.
> 
> Her body belongs to her, and she voluntary shares it with you. You dont own it, you did not before, and you will not *after she leaves you.
> *
> I read every reply you posted in this thread and it appears to me that you keep bringing it up and using her past as a sword to slice her mentally. This means you do not really lover her, and you are all hung up on how she could waste her time with other guys.
> 
> Your wife is wasting her time with you. Your problem is that you think you do not measure up to her other guys, and right now in your desperate, clingy state you are correct.
> 
> She already has low self esteem and instead of building her up you are rubbing salt in a wound.
> 
> Lets be clear here, you are emotionally abusing your wife over something that cannot be changed. In a marriage, any type of abuse is unacceptable. Be it emotional, physical, or a combination they are all seperate and as a whole destructive.
> 
> You are interferring with her right to happiness, joy, and protection. You are supposed to be her best friend, lover, confidant, and most importantly her protector.
> 
> You took a vow in front of God, both of your families, and your friends to honor and cherish her. You are not living up to your vow because you are too busy running around worrying about her breaking her marriage vows.
> 
> The fact the she stays with you shows she is serious about keeping her vows.
> 
> You are also damaging yourself, and your right to joy and happiness. I am no doctor, but you should go see one and ask about Morbid jealousy, retroactive jealousy, and OCD. The problem is in your mind, which is powerful like a waterfall. You are letting your emotions control you instead of the other way around.
> 
> My advice: your wife showed her trustworthiness in disclosing this fact, she did not have to do it. You should respond by letting bygones be bygones, and never bringing this up to her again. You should also get down on bended knee and beg her forgiveness for behaving like a macho, insecure, ego maniac.
> 
> If you keep up with this abuse, do not get help fixing your own head, and continue down this path she will walk out the door and she will feel like a weight has been lifted. She will never come back.
> 
> It will become a self fullfilling proficy, and she will find another man who will treat her right, and give her toe curling multiple orgasms in every horny position you can imagine. She will tell him about you and your insecurities and they will laugh about it together after a hot, steamy, bedroom romp.
> 
> It is up to you to man up and fix this problem. You said your ex-wife cheated on you. I have to ask you, did you have real evidence or did you initiate divorce based on suspicion alone?
> 
> You should spend your time enjoying your wife, building her self esteem, and cherishing your time together
> 
> Listen to the song "One" by U2, or get a lyric sheet on line and read the sentiment.
> 
> Good luck and God bless you and your wife.
> 
> Peace,
> Sealman 1966


He does not have to apologize to anyone for the way he feels about this. If a woman hides this from her husband and it comes out later that she lied then she takes a big risk. If she shared her body with 532 others and selects him to be number 533 then how special for him until number 534 arrives.

There is no point in him abusing or harassing her. If this is a show stopper for him he should do her and him a favor and move on.


----------



## typewittyusernamehere

Stop feeding the troll


----------



## RandomDude

> She said she never thought someone with my values existed and never felt with me with any of the other men. This really devastated me because, throughout my adult life, I refrained from sex with women because I wanted to make it special with the right person. I often think of my wife with these other men and feel uncomfortable.


Sheez mate, have you no idea what you have?

You have her love, respect, loyalty as you're practically her 'first' too and as a bonus she's not a clueless virgin in the sack. The past is past and it's just sex.


----------



## DDDCanada

Thanks for the comments. I'm beginning to think that sometimes people just look at the same thing in different ways. My wife succumbed to advances from men to satisfy her own low self-esteem. I decided to wait for someone special.


----------



## prc911

DDDCanada said:


> Thanks for the comments. I'm beginning to think that sometimes people just look at the same thing in different ways. My wife succumbed to advances from men to satisfy her own low self-esteem. I decided to wait for someone special.


and there is nothing wrong with that man...all this nonsense one has to "sow their oats" and urban legend BS isnt tru yet for some reason society views it as "normal you gotta do it to feel right"
bullcrap....you can live w/o all that and still do just fine 
I used to get crap all time from my buddies for not hanging out and having casual sex etc, etc....just wasnt something I wanted, period....funny thing is now am married happy as ever for 15yrs and I make about 3-4 times the salary they do today......

take pride in who you are and what you stand for, no one here is entitled to label you as wrong or inadequate or mentally ill for feeling the way you do....my wife knows about this issue and she knows it bothers me....but she has learn to deal with it....because you know why? is about the only defect she sees in me....I dont drink, I dont smoke, I exercise, am in good shape and I make more then enough to support her and our kids w/o her having to work.....so yes, we arent perfect...but am ok with my flaw and wouldnt trade it for any others (obesity, cheating, etc, etc)


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## DDDCanada

Since it's been over two years since my last post, I thought I would provide an update. Thank you to those that have sent me private emails or support, encouragement and advice. 

We separated in September 2012 after months and months of her harassment and abusive behaviour. She decided to punish me for ever bringing up the topic of her sexual past. She threatened me, my son, my parents and even visited my workplace to speak badly of me with my employees. She also reached out to neighbours to speak ill of me as well. It was an incredibly stressful and difficult time for me. She intentionally reached out to men that she had sex with in the past to intentionally hurt me. I moved out in September sleeping on the floor of the sunroom of the parents condo until February 2013. I moved into my own condo at that point and have finally started to feel like a normal human being again. However, she goes on the attach every few weeks by sending nasty emails and messages to me and my family. Most recently, she created a fake email address and pretended to be a woman interested in me. I didn't bite but she forwarded my response to her extended family and friends claiming that I'm a cheater. She has been on and off anti-anxiety medication which explains the extreme behaviour but it has been difficult. I enjoy being on my own and spending time with my children when they are scheduled to be with me. 

I still do think about her intimately and feel that I felt best with her. Unfortunately, I also still think about everything she has told me about her past and feel uncomfortable about it. I feel that I invested everything in this relationship and gave her more than I ever thought I could. I never felt that she could be me everything. I truly never felt unique and special to her. However, I now realize that I tried to make something work with someone that did not share the perspective on intimacy. When we first were intimate, I remember her getting up immediately after we finished. This surprised me and made me feel like a job had been completed. I never forgot that moment and how worthless I felt. All I wanted was to feel like a special man to her but it never happened, despite her saying I was. For me, sex is the most intimate act two individuals can share. I told her that she didn't realize what she gave away. I have not been intimate with any other women since but have had several offers that I have turned down. I can't bring myself to do anything for the sake of doing it. It needs to be special and with someone that feels the same way about it as I do. I can't change who I am or what I believe and don't believe I should compromise my values for someone else. She is bitter and angry and blames me entirely for the collapse of our relationship. I don't accept that. 

If anyone has any questions for me, please post or send me a private message.

Thanks for listening.


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## MEM2020

Ddd,
I am going to suggest this threat be made a sticky in the men's club. I believe that it is the clearest example I have seen on TAM of a man's insecurities destroying his partner and his marriage. 

As part of the sticky, I will offer to write a summary describing what happened. I'm sorry to say that it will define your behavior as the gold standard for destroying intimacy, love and ultimately the legal certificate of the marriage. 




DDDCanada said:


> Since it's been over two years since my last post, I thought I would provide an update. Thank you to those that have sent me private emails or support, encouragement and advice.
> 
> We separated in September 2012 after months and months of her harassment and abusive behaviour. She decided to punish me for ever bringing up the topic of her sexual past. She threatened me, my son, my parents and even visited my workplace to speak badly of me with my employees. She also reached out to neighbours to speak ill of me as well. It was an incredibly stressful and difficult time for me. She intentionally reached out to men that she had sex with in the past to intentionally hurt me. I moved out in September sleeping on the floor of the sunroom of the parents condo until February 2013. I moved into my own condo at that point and have finally started to feel like a normal human being again. However, she goes on the attach every few weeks by sending nasty emails and messages to me and my family. Most recently, she created a fake email address and pretended to be a woman interested in me. I didn't bite but she forwarded my response to her extended family and friends claiming that I'm a cheater. She has been on and off anti-anxiety medication which explains the extreme behaviour but it has been difficult. I enjoy being on my own and spending time with my children when they are scheduled to be with me.
> 
> I still do think about her intimately and feel that I felt best with her. Unfortunately, I also still think about everything she has told me about her past and feel uncomfortable about it. I feel that I invested everything in this relationship and gave her more than I ever thought I could. I never felt that she could be me everything. I truly never felt unique and special to her. However, I now realize that I tried to make something work with someone that did not share the perspective on intimacy. When we first were intimate, I remember her getting up immediately after we finished. This surprised me and made me feel like a job had been completed. I never forgot that moment and how worthless I felt. All I wanted was to feel like a special man to her but it never happened, despite her saying I was. For me, sex is the most intimate act two individuals can share. I told her that she didn't realize what she gave away. I have not been intimate with any other women since but have had several offers that I have turned down. I can't bring myself to do anything for the sake of doing it. It needs to be special and with someone that feels the same way about it as I do. I can't change who I am or what I believe and don't believe I should compromise my values for someone else. She is bitter and angry and blames me entirely for the collapse of our relationship. I don't accept that.
> 
> If anyone has any questions for me, please post or send me a private message.
> 
> Thanks for listening.


----------



## DDDCanada

MEM11363 .... Do you believe you are the only one entitled to an opinion? You want to alienate me and make an example of me? Well, I don't believe you have the support you think you do. While some may agree with you, others do not. I am here to share my story with others who have or are experiencing the same feelings.


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## aug

Thank you for updating your story. When I read the first post of this thread, I thought yet another zombie thread resurrected. I was surprised to see it was from the OP, you, updating us. It's rare on TAM to see this.

Your wife should had been truthful in the first place. She lied to get you to marry her and then confessed afterwards thinking you wont leave her.

It's good to see you held onto your standards. She obviously do not hold to the same view as you. If push comes to shove, I rather be with someone like you than her.


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## seeking sanity

I have to agree with MEM. You are the villain in this drama.


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## DDDCanada

aug .... I thought it was important to share the experience with everyone. As I mentioned, I have received many messages from others that have experienced the same feelings. I don't want to overstate the obvious but I have always much preferred honesty rather than what someone believes I want to hear. I will always cherish the experiences with my ex but felt that we could not overcome the dishonesty.


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## DDDCanada

seeking sanity .... You are entitled to an opinion but I don't consider myself a "villain".


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## reesespieces

I'm sorry but how is DDDCanada the villain here? I feel so bad for him! Lying about your sexual past is one of the WORST ways to start a marriage and clearly the marriage is on its way out of the door. 

Sometimes I wish people could be honest with each other about these things before marriage, even if it makes them "look bad." It is true that one's past is the past but when you want to start a future with someone you owe them the truth.


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## seeking sanity

Antagonist then.


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## seeking sanity

Here's the real learning you can take from this experience: You have a rigid set of beliefs and you are willing to destroy those around you to try to live within them. Read the first page of this post. You talk about what a wonderful woman she. Then read the last page, where she's a f*cking psycho? 

The thing that turned her from wonderful to psycho is your rigidness. YOU did that.


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## reesespieces

Based on what I've gleaned from the posts I've read, the OP was at fault for being naive about his relationship with his wife before marriage. That part still does not make him the villain or the antagonist. 

However in light of all of this his wife has chosen to exercise poor behavior of her own accord. She's clearly angry that the OP found it troublesome that she, by all intents and purposes, revised her partner count and was not honest in the first place. If the OP was the antagonist, why is it that he chose to leave to separate and won't take any of his wife's digs? Furthermore, why is it now that his wife is the one attempting to make him look bad?


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## reesespieces

seeking sanity said:


> Here's the real learning you can take from this experience: You have a rigid set of beliefs and you are willing to destroy those around you to try to live within them. Read the first page of this post. You talk about what a wonderful woman she. Then read the last page, where she's a f*cking psycho?
> 
> The thing that turned her from wonderful to psycho is your rigidness. YOU did that.


It's been a almost 2 years from when he made the OP to now. Marriages have been known to go from wonderful to completely psycho in that time frame.


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## DDDCanada

Absolutely not. She has a history of emotional and psychological issues that started long before I met her. I believe in my values and stand behind them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I haven't hurt anyone or ever intend to. I only expect one thing from a partner - honesty. If we are honest with each and accept each other fully, then the relationship stands a chance to last. If the relationship is predicated on one or both people being dishonest, it likely won't last.


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## reesespieces

seeking sanity said:


> Here's the real learning you can take from this experience: You have a rigid set of beliefs and you are willing to destroy those around you to try to live within them. Read the first page of this post. You talk about what a wonderful woman she. Then read the last page, where she's a f*cking psycho?
> 
> The thing that turned her from wonderful to psycho is your rigidness. YOU did that.


It's been almost 2 years from when he made the OP to now. Marriages have been known to go from wonderful to completely psycho in that time frame.


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## reesespieces

DDDCanada said:


> Absolutely not. She has a history of emotional and psychological issues that started long before I met her. I believe in my values and stand behind them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I haven't hurt anyone or ever intend to. I only expect one thing from a partner - honesty. If we are honest with each and accept each other fully, then the relationship stands a chance to last. If the relationship is predicated on one or both people being dishonest, it likely won't last.


Okay then. I guess the final question is, what have you learned and where will you go from here?


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## DDDCanada

reesespeices, I was responding to seeking sanity.


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## DDDCanada

I have grown and learned so much! I have learned that I have made mistakes and want to grow to be a better person. I have learned people are all very different and what's important to some people may not be to others. I have grown to embrace my beliefs and values, even through the most difficult and painful experiences. I have learned that many people do not share my values, which may make it challenging to find a partner in the future. I have grown to love my children more than ever, and do the best possible for them. I learned that intimacy is still very important to me, something to share with a person you have a deep connection with. I learned that standing up for what you believe in is a good thing, even if it results in the painful end of a relationship. I learned that divorce does not my life is over. While I realize that I cannot be with my ex, I want her to discover happiness and be well.


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## larry.gray

DDDCanada said:


> seeking sanity .... You are entitled to an opinion but I don't consider myself a "villain".


Feel free to report, the website administration doesn't take kindly to personal attacks. 

If you don't know how: hit this little icon







in the lower left of the offending post.


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## tryingtobebetter

seeking sanity said:


> I have to agree with MEM. You are the villain in this drama.


I see only victims here.


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## Decorum

DDDCanada said:


> seeking sanity .... You are entitled to an opinion but I don't consider myself a "villain".


DDD, of course you do not have to change your values, there is nothing wrong with them.

I share them.

My "number" would be very low compared to most, I met and married my wife at 28 (we are the same age) and we have been together for over 20 years, We have had and raised 4 kids together (youngest is 18). When we met my wife was even less experienced then I.

Or relationship has had its up and downs, but I do not regret it at all. It does make it very special and I think that has helped us weather some of the storms life throws at you, and there have been a few believe me.

Some people criticize things they do not understand or they dislike, because you hold a different standard then them.

I do think you made a bad choice with your ex, she never had the "hindquarters" to run the race, I am sorry, but psycho is as psycho does. (She was going to snap at some point)

Peoples past matters, be it their number or their emotional problems.

I have never lost respect for my wife's maturity, honesty, or practicality.

You just need to find a good one, who shares your values, they are out there. Don't listen to the haters here.

You sound secure in yourself so I will leave it at that.

Thank you for the update. I would love to hear more from you.

I wish you well, take care!


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## DDDCanada

Looking back, I would say I made a mistake but I am more guilty of being naive. I truly wanted to be with the person I thought she was, not the person she was later revealed to be. It's sad because I did open my heart and my life to her but I have accepted the situation and moved on. Despite these challenges, I still strive to be happy and wake up every morning ready to tackle a new day.


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## MrK

I didn't read pages 2-20. I may go back. Another excellent example of "the past is the past, no need to talk about it" is just bad, bad advice.


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## larry.gray

DDDCanada said:


> Looking back, I would say I made a mistake but I am more guilty of being naive. I truly wanted to be with the person I thought she was, not the person she was later revealed to be. It's sad because I did open my heart and my life to her but I have accepted the situation and moved on. Despite these challenges, I still strive to be happy and wake up every morning ready to tackle a new day.


I'd suggest you go read this:

How a Borderline Personality Disorder Love Relationship Evolves - Roger Melton, M.A.

See if it fits...


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

I read this whole thread, and I'm honestly quite surprised that so many people jumped on the guy as hard as they did. No one wants to be lied to about an important issue before they decide to marry their partner - NO ONE. I thought 24 sexual partners - even for someone in their 30s - was a lot. Call me old fashioned, I don't care. While most blasted DDD for having so much difficulty processing this information and accepting her after the fact, Almost no one bothered to ask about him. DDD thought of marital sex as a sacred bond that belonged to the covenant of marriage. There are others who have that same view. So while he was tolerant of her having 8 partners when they had the talk and he asked for her past, the number ballooning to 3 times as many was hard to swallow. 

I don't think anyone is said that she never deserved love simply because she got around. What his concerns were was that she did not have the same values as he did. He thought she did but later found out that she didn't. Then in typical TAM fashion, a mob came out to pillory the guy because he felt that he was lied to. 

I am someone who believes that our pasts tell others who we are. Plenty of people have overcome terrible decisions and have truly learned from them. But at the same time, DDD did not want to marry a "project". There is no shame in that. I wouldn't want to take the risk either to be honest. For those of you who have spouses who got around or had other questionable issues about their pasts, kudos to you for marrying them anyways. But from what I saw in the thread, everyone in that boat was up front about it before marriage. DDD's wife wasn't, and that was too bad. Because while some of you accuse DDD of "breaking her" after we find out she went on a scorched earth campaign to humiliate him and then contact her prior lovers, take a step back and realize that a normal person does not do that. So, he could have avoided the psycho if he only would have been given some honest info up front...

LOL at many of you as well. Most on here were all cool about the shades of gray, how numbers did not matter and that DDD needed to overcome the deceit. But, many of you would decide to chuck the shades of gray argument to the side if the guy would have came on here and his story was that "his wife cheated on him right before marriage or maybe right after marriage for a short period of time and then stopped". That would be interpreted differently and the wife would have been burned at the stake immediately. 

The reason I find it so hilarious is that the people calling this guy rigid and Philistine-like in his views will automatically take up the exact same traits if the situation was different. Everyone has their "low-brow moments" and have their own "sacred cows". It's too bad that some sacred cows are cherished while other sacred cows are slaughtered without question. A little consistency around here would be nice...


----------



## reesespieces

I think the lesson at the end of the day is, be upfront and honest about everything with the person you want to marry or don't marry at all. People are allowed to have their "restrictive" or even non-restrictive views as they please and their views should never pose an impediment to knowing the truth.


----------



## MEM2020

Plan,
This wasn't about values and/or feelings. I believe D3 would have been fully supported had he chosen to enforce a boundary and divorce his wife. 

The backlash he received was predicated on what can best be described as 'cake eating'. He wanted to enjoy all the benefits of being married, while engaging in intense, lengthy, and frequent behavior that D3 himself described as 'causing his W to feel awful'. 

The irony was the striking similarity if their behaviors. 
Hers: Repeatedly trying (and failing) to find comfort and reassurance in casual sex. 
His: Repeatedly trying (and failing) to soothe his anxieties by dumping them on her and/or blaming her for them. 

This pattern of behavior constitutes emotional abuse. 






Plan 9 from OS said:


> I read this whole thread, and I'm honestly quite surprised that so many people jumped on the guy as hard as they did. No one wants to be lied to about an important issue before they decide to marry their partner - NO ONE. I thought 24 sexual partners - even for someone in their 30s - was a lot. Call me old fashioned, I don't care. While most blasted DDD for having so much difficulty processing this information and accepting her after the fact, Almost no one bothered to ask about him. DDD thought of marital sex as a sacred bond that belonged to the covenant of marriage. There are others who have that same view. So while he was tolerant of her having 8 partners when they had the talk and he asked for her past, the number ballooning to 3 times as many was hard to swallow.
> 
> I don't think anyone is said that she never deserved love simply because she got around. What his concerns were was that she did not have the same values as he did. He thought she did but later found out that she didn't. Then in typical TAM fashion, a mob came out to pillory the guy because he felt that he was lied to.
> 
> I am someone who believes that our pasts tell others who we are. Plenty of people have overcome terrible decisions and have truly learned from them. But at the same time, DDD did not want to marry a "project". There is no shame in that. I wouldn't want to take the risk either to be honest. For those of you who have spouses who got around or had other questionable issues about their pasts, kudos to you for marrying them anyways. But from what I saw in the thread, everyone in that boat was up front about it before marriage. DDD's wife wasn't, and that was too bad. Because while some of you accuse DDD of "breaking her" after we find out she went on a scorched earth campaign to humiliate him and then contact her prior lovers, take a step back and realize that a normal person does not do that. So, he could have avoided the psycho if he only would have been given some honest info up front...
> 
> LOL at many of you as well. Most on here were all cool about the shades of gray, how numbers did not matter and that DDD needed to overcome the deceit. But, many of you would decide to chuck the shades of gray argument to the side if the guy would have came on here and his story was that "his wife cheated on him right before marriage or maybe right after marriage for a short period of time and then stopped". That would be interpreted differently and the wife would have been burned at the stake immediately.
> 
> The reason I find it so hilarious is that the people calling this guy rigid and Philistine-like in his views will automatically take up the exact same traits if the situation was different. Everyone has their "low-brow moments" and have their own "sacred cows". It's too bad that some sacred cows are cherished while other sacred cows are slaughtered without question. A little consistency around here would be nice...


----------



## DDDCanada

MEM11363, implying emotional abuse on my part is irresponsible. You have not "walked in my shoes" and cannot truly appreciate how I felt. Being deceived by someone that you've invested everything in is a very difficult thing to go through. I wasn't willing to accept being lied to.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

MEM11363 said:


> Plan,
> This wasn't about values and/or feelings. I believe D3 would have been fully supported had he chosen to enforce a boundary and divorce his wife.
> 
> The backlash he received was predicated on what can best be described as 'cake eating'. He wanted to enjoy all the benefits of being married, while engaging in intense, lengthy, and frequent behavior that D3 himself described as 'causing his W to feel awful'.
> 
> The irony was the striking similarity if their behaviors.
> Hers: Repeatedly trying (and failing) to find comfort and reassurance in casual sex.
> His: Repeatedly trying (and failing) to soothe his anxieties by dumping them on her and/or blaming her for them.
> 
> This pattern of behavior constitutes emotional abuse.


Everything you described above sounds exactly how a BS would react to his/her WS during reconciliation. If his wife had a ONS on him, people would be telling him to "take your time", "you need to heal" and "your WS has no idea what pain you are going thru"...and similar statements along those lines. 

It was a significant betrayal of trust against DDD. I'm sorry, but if you are beginning a marriage based on deceit, then you will be building on a weakened foundation. Could they build their marriage into something special? Perhaps. But really, it's up to DDD as to whether he could accept having a woman as a wife who freely gave herself to a lot of men. That was a huge deal to him, and he tried to overcome it in what I assume was a sincere try.


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## DDDCanada

If I would have known everything up front, I likely would not have got involved with her. We did not value or believe in the same things.


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## Caribbean Man

DDDCanada said:


> If I would have known everything up front, I likely would not have got involved with her. *We did not value or believe in the same things.*


And that's the bottom line.

This has absolutely nothing to do with insecurity, shaming or control issues.

Would anyone on this thread encourage their Agnostic , Christian or Atheist ,fun loving daughter to marry a Fundamentalist Muslim man?
No.
Because their beliefs/ values are diametrically opposed.
Even if they're hopelessly in love , it cannot work.

The OP's belief system and his wife's were als diametrically opposed. Did he love his wife?
Yes.
Did she love him?
Yes.
But sometimes love ain't enough .He faced tremendous cognitive dissonance when the truth began to surface.
What many on this thread are asking him to do is ,compartmentalize , which is a _coping mechanism_.
Not a healthy dynamic at all...


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## samyeagar

Caribbean Man said:


> And that's the bottom line.
> 
> This has absolutely nothing to do with insecurity, shaming or control issues.
> 
> Would anyone on this thread encourage their Agnostic , Christian or Atheist ,fun loving daughter to marry a Fundamentalist Muslim man?
> No.
> Because their beliefs/ values are diametrically opposed.
> Even if they're hopelessly in love , it cannot work.
> 
> The OP's belief system and his wife's were als diametrically opposed. Did he love his wife?
> Yes.
> Did she love him?
> Yes.
> But sometimes love ain't enough .He faced tremendous cognitive dissonance when the truth began to surface.
> What many on this thread are asking him to do is *,compartmentalize , which is a coping mechanism*.
> Not a healthy dynamic at all...


Oh my, you have no idea how many light bulbs you just set off in my mind with that...


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## DDDCanada

Caribbean Man, you're right about the "coping mechanism". I realized that "coping" with the situation was not how I wanted to live my life. I did not want my happiness and existence to be compromised by having a partner that could not bring herself to be honest about something that was important to me.


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## Abc123wife

DDDCanada said:


> Caribbean Man, you're right about the "coping mechanism". I realized that "coping" with the situation was not how I wanted to live my life. I did not want my happiness and existence to be compromised by having a partner that could not bring herself to be honest about something that was important to me.


I am just curious how you will find a woman that has been with very few partners (to meet your requirements) but is OK with dating/marrying a soon to be twice divorced guy? 

Where does breaking the vow and sacredness of pledging yourself until death do you part fit in with your judgement of others? 

Do you think that will be easy to overlook by your prospective partners?

Not trying to be mean but just curious if you have thought about how others will now hold your past against you?


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## DDDCanada

I do not see myself marrying again but can't predict the future. My situations is less about breaking vows and more about preservation and happiness. I never went out to hurt anyone and never used anyone for sex or anything else. If someone I meet in the future is unwilling to be with me because my first wife was unfaithful and my second dishonest and volatile, then so be it. I will never allow my happiness to be defined by another person ever again. Many people divorce and become happier than they've ever been. I am happy now and would embrace a close friendship with a woman at this point. If the friendship evolves into something more, then I'll cross that bridge at that point. 

In my opinion, more women are likely to be attracted to a man that had been married twice under my circumstances that a guy that has never been married but had slept with 100 women. At least the women that I would want to be with. Despite my challenges, I have proven that I can commit and love a woman and will not use them simply for sexual gratification like some other men do. But again, I hope the key to my own happiness. If a woman doesn't want to be with me because of my two past marriages, it wasn't meant to be. 



Abc123wife said:


> I am just curious how you will find a woman that has been with very few partners (to meet your requirements) but is OK with dating/marrying a soon to be twice divorced guy?
> 
> 
> Where does breaking the vow and sacredness of pledging yourself until death do you part fit in with your judgement of others?
> 
> Do you think that will be easy to overlook by your prospective partners?
> 
> Not trying to be mean but just curious if you have thought about how others will now hold your past against you?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KingofIstatements

DDDCanada said:


> If someone I meet in the future is unwilling to be with me because my first wife was unfaithful and my second dishonest and volatile, then so be it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


DDD, I don't remember if I've read your thread earlier, but will do so when I have the time. I entered my marriage with similar naïveté, so your post unfortunately seriously resonates with me! 

I'm sorry to hear of your marital experiences and resulting living conditions. The bitter and sardonic (but often justly so) bloggers in the manosphere use experiences like yours to warn of the dangers of seriously dating or marrying 'carousel riders' with a high partner count. 

I don't know my wife's #, and really don't ever care to, but my guess is that it's far North, probably 2X of your ex's. Like many men, I foolishly wandered into marriage thinking I'd hit the jackpot- I mean, hey, if she gets down with slurping some dude just because he's the last one available at last call, or stuck with a serial cheater for several years- I'll be treated like royalty if I dedicate my life to her & treat her right!- right? To find out otherwise is a painfully expensive learning experience in human psych, and the way people really operate.

There's always posters who bristle and yelp on here when these things are expressed in terms of commodity- but I've become certain it's the best analogy possible: If you were a realtor or developer, how much would you REALLY respect someone who offers full market price for a cottage, when everyone else on the street's living in 3B/2B homes they bought for the price of a cheeseburger?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## being the best me

Morales? people don't have morals any more! its not about Sex, feeling good because I have x # of Partner's, I have to put out to feel? I want to live my life enjoy sexual freedom? I have been married long enough to realize its not about getting laid, the number? But the time spent with the person I am with, you don't become asexual Casanova over night it is a learned process some thing to become in sink with. its not about now (I need to cum) it is about how we do things together! How I learn from the experience enjoy the future not just throw it away on the next high. Just rambling. I expect more from my children they deserve someone who care about them not some one night Thing. that has no bearing on there future but can be damning of there future prospects!


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## DDDCanada

KingofIstatements, I'm okay now. I guess I was naive but that will not stop me from learning from my past experiences. I am looking forward in a positive way and am hopeful that I will make better choices for myself going forward.


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## alte Dame

It seems that you really didn't know her when you married her. You were in love. You thought she was in love - perhaps she was - but given your description of the person she shows herself to be now, you didn't really know her. It's not just the 'number' or what that meant to you. That was just part of a whole package that you didn't know. It sounds like she didn't really know you, either. 

For me, this is a cautionary tale about taking your time before you commit to marriage. Clearly, CWI shows that that's no guarantee, but it helps.


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## DDDCanada

alte Dame, I certainly didn't know her based on what she kept from me and her behavior. With that said, how was I suppose to know if she didn't share it with me? I treated her with the greatest of respect. Even though she was did and said things that were questionable even at that time, her behavior flipped when I began asking about her past. She became angry and then enraged when she figured out this has become a huge issue that had to be dealt with in our relationship. So while I understand what you're saying, I don't believe it was as simple as we didn't know each other. I told her virtually everything about myself. I wanted her to know me very well for obvious reasons. As I said in a previous post, I learned so much from this experience. I am still young (thirty-eight) and still have the desire to connect with someone at some point. However, I don't see marriage in my future. A woman that understands and appreciates me for the person that I am, if out there somewhere, would be great. Many women that I may be interested are at the age where they would want to settle down which is not want I want. This may make it challenging but not impossible. However, I don't need to be in a relationship to be happy. 



alte Dame said:


> It seems that you really didn't know her when you married her. You were in love. You thought she was in love - perhaps she was - but given your description of the person she shows herself to be now, you didn't really know her. It's not just the 'number' or what that meant to you. That was just part of a whole package that you didn't know. It sounds like she didn't really know you, either.
> 
> For me, this is a cautionary tale about taking your time before you commit to marriage. Clearly, CWI shows that that's no guarantee, but it helps.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha

DDDCanada said:


> *I recently married a wonderful woman and we are deeply in love.* We are both in our 30s. For my entire life, I believed strongly in waiting for a special person to have sex. I always considered it a sacred act that bonds two people together. I was married in my mid-twenties and had never been with another woman prior to that. *My first wife was unfaithful to me during our marriage which was devastating. However, I moved on and met my current wife who is an amazing woman. She treats me so well and is deeply in love with me as I am with her.* We spoke about our past experiences and values at length. I told her I have only been with my first wife and we rarely had sex. She was shocked! She told me she didn't remember how many men she had been with but it was around 8 or 9. While this was difficult to accept based on my own beliefs, I tried to accept it and moved on. We discussed this issues many more times and finally she approached me a few months ago about her past. She mentioned that she had actually had sex with 24 men prior to me and she was disgusted with herself. She said she never thought someone with my values existed and never felt with me with any of the other men. This really devastated me because, throughout my adult life, I refrained from sex with women because I wanted to make it special with the right person. I often think of my wife with these other men and feel uncomfortable. I feel as though I've let myself down and wasted my own time refraining since the person I am with didn't feel the same as I did about sex. This issue has created a wedge between us and has really impacted our relationship. I really don't know what to do to move past this.
> 
> DDD


There is a fine line between belief systems as in religion inspired beliefs and "hang ups'. I believe that you are suffering from the latter. Your wife (in your words above) is amazing and loves you (unlike your cheating former wife). You stun her with your "belief system" not having sex with anyone (and while this maybe normal for some, it is equally surprising for others) and she is compromised into trying to come up with a number for you. Granted she should have told you the truth first time in terms of number and I somehow think that if she got more time to tell you, she would have found a way to explain that is who she was at the time and is not how she feels now. There are a bunch of men out there who would give anything for the love of a good woman. Now we come round to your converting your belief system into a hang up about her having more partners than she told you and you say that if you knew it was as many as she had, then you would not have married her ? This is the bit that I find incredible and suggest that you go out there and look more at "mixed marriages" i.e. marriages of people who put a higher value on the sanctity of sex before marriage and those who got to the same place in morality through a different route. You will find that the happiest and most successful ones are where both parties got rid of their "hang ups" and got on with discovering and enjoying each other. You may have let this one get away (and I am sorry for you for this) but work on yourself so that if, in future, you do find another amazing woman who loves you, you get down to what matters first and don't let "hang ups" get in the way. Good luck!


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## larry.gray

manfromlamancha

You're responding to a two year old post that is quite out of date for the thread.

And on top of that: I don't think having high standards is a "hang up." If she was just honest with him she could have save a lot of heartbreak for both of them.


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## norajane

DDDCanada said:


> In my opinion, more women are likely to be attracted to a man that had been married twice under my circumstances that a guy that has never been married but had slept with 100 women. At least the women that I would want to be with. Despite my challenges, *I have proven that I can commit and love a woman *and will not use them simply for sexual gratification like some other men do. But again, I hope the key to my own happiness. If a woman doesn't want to be with me because of my two past marriages, it wasn't meant to be.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually, I think you have proven the exact opposite.

People date and have sex, sometimes in long term relationships, and then break up when they realize they aren't right for each other. They eventually commit and marry when they have found someone that is a good fit.

What you do is you marry them first, then divorce when you realize you aren't right for each other. Your commitments are certainly not "til death do us part, for better or worse". Love is a verb, meaning you are loving toward someone. Harassing someone until she can't stand being around you is not loving.


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## temperance

Don't focus on her past, focus on both of your future. Not sure what ethnic or religious background you are, it is not uncommon to have had sex and went through many 'dates/boyfriends' when they were young in the western culture. She must be very attractive to have so many 'pursues'... and hey... sorry to say... young men are dogs... they trick young women by being nice to get into their pants and trick them to believe he wanted a real relationship. So... can't totally blame her for that can we? 
She trusts you 200%, that's why she disclosed this to you. It is a big deal, that means she truly thinks you are the one, you are that special to her heart. Unfortunately... God has created woman and man differently... and how we feel about sex emotionally are very different as well. She probably has no clue how it affects you emotionally.


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## DDDCanada

Norajane, your comments couldn't be further from the truth. I dated my first wife for four years prior to getting married. My second was a shorter courtship (under a year). If she were honest with me, things would have worked out differently. Both of my commitments were "for life" but was I expected to accept being cheated on by one and being lied to by the other? Life is too short to compromise my happiness by accepting those terms. I did not harass her but needed to know the truth - there's nothing wrong with that.


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## Caribbean Man

norajane said:


> Love is a verb, meaning you are loving toward someone. Harassing someone until she can't stand being around you is not loving.


Neither is lying about your past, in an effort to manipulate someone you profess to love, to marry you.


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## DDDCanada

It's been a tough road but life goes on. I am focused on my children, career and personal health and wellness. Despite the challenges, I have so much to be thankful for.


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## Decorum

Is this thread still going on?

Ha ha ha, if he next married and then divorced, a woman who proved to be an ax murderer having cut off the heads of every person in a small town in upper Wisconsin, we would say "see he has a problem with commitment".
And "He was so in love with her in the beginning, he must be neurotic and enslaved to a cult"
(yes it is a generalized over-statement)

...but really I guess if they sound even slightly religious we all know what that means right?

Do people not understand what lying does to a relationship?

There have been so many threads where a marriage that seemed to be going along fine was rocked by the discovery of a lie. Situations that if the truth were known it would have given the groom pause about proceeding to marriage.

But he never was given the chance to take a decision regarding it because of the lie.

The wife had dated the best man, or some other good friend.
She was previously married
She was an escort
She had an abortion.
She HAD cheated in past relationships
Her sex number was higher (many of these)
She dislikes sex because she was abused
She is low drive, etc
She does not really want kids
She had a three way
She made a video
She tried anal
She use to swallow
She has been with another woman, and liked it.
Her EX's **** WAS bigger

See RClawson's thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/137570-retroactive-jealousy-final-solution.html

Are they obligated to a life time of second guessing and unhappiness because they said "I DO" before they found out "SHE DID" having lied and said she had not?

Actions have consequences!

If a person finds any or all of these a deal breaker, how can we tell if it's just a deal breaker for them or if they should seek professional help for their "hang-ups"?

Do they have to stay together because we identify with the other spouse?

Also is it a requirement that everybody "likes" (or at least will tolerate) blue cheese on their salads?

DDD I appreciate the update. I am curious about what we can do to support you?


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## dontbeused

seeking sanity said:


> Here's the real learning you can take from this experience: You have a rigid set of beliefs and you are willing to destroy those around you to try to live within them. Read the first page of this post. You talk about what a wonderful woman she. Then read the last page, where she's a f*cking psycho?
> 
> The thing that turned her from wonderful to psycho is your rigidness. YOU did that.


this is a ridiculous statement. her behavior is not sane. Her acting insane is not his fault. She lied to him, he dealt with being lied to, and she is upset that he does not want her. Who would, she is nuts.
I could care less if she was a tramp early in life, and with 24 partners IMO she was, but for her to act like she is, after she caused this with her lying to him in the first place is not his fault.


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## dontbeused

DDDCanada said:


> Norajane, your comments couldn't be further from the truth. I dated my first wife for four years prior to getting married. My second was a shorter courtship (under a year). If she were honest with me, things would have worked out differently. Both of my commitments were "for life" but was I expected to accept being cheated on by one and being lied to by the other? Life is too short to compromise my happiness by accepting those terms. I did not harass her but needed to know the truth - there's nothing wrong with that.


and you did the right thing for you. Good for you. Don't listen to the people here that only think how they feel is the way we all need to feel.


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## SimplyAmorous

DDDCanada said:


> *In my opinion, more women are likely to be attracted to a man that had been married twice under my circumstances that a guy that has never been married but had slept with 100 women. At least the women that I would want to be with. * Despite my challenges, I have proven that I can commit and love a woman and will not use them simply for sexual gratification like some other men do. But again, I hope the key to my own happiness. If a woman doesn't want to be with me because of my two past marriages, it wasn't meant to be.


Just for the record DDD.. you'd be MY type and I am pretty darn particular...one's sexual history or how they have evolved in coming to where they are....speaks volumes to me as a woman.......and "owning" of our past --caring enough to be honest and upfront if the other person has concerns or asks.....these do speak of our values (the honesty if nothing else).....

I also take a more sacred view to sex... I married a like minded man...these things were very important to me -even in my teens......Such men appear a rare breed today...

I hope you will find love again..if this is a desire of your heart....I missed the middle of your story here.. but did post early on feeling you & she could work it out .... it seems something else happened and I missed it.. just wanted to add this 2 cents...


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