# Wife wants to separate



## Bioman

We have been married almost 29 years. Two grown kids and one and a half yr old grandson. My wife has been saying we are not connecting. She started a new career a few years ago after going back to school. I guess her life has gotten more exciting and interesting. Two days ago she said she wants to separate for a few months to give her some space. She says the marriage has not been good and I deserve better. I asked if there was someone else and she said no. I don't know what's going on. Pretty devastated.


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## GusPolinski

Bioman said:


> We have been married almost 29 years. Two grown kids and one and a half yr old grandson. My wife has been saying we are not connecting. She started a new career a few years ago after going back to school. I guess her life has gotten more exciting and interesting. Two days ago she said she wants to separate for a few months to give her some space. She says the marriage has not been good and I deserve better. *I asked if there was someone else and she said no.* I don't know what's going on. Pretty devastated.


She's probably lying.


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## Dude007

Agree this screams affair


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## Bioman

I don't see any sign of it...and don't know when she would even be able to carry on an affair. If it were someone else at least I would know what this is about.


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## kristin2349

Bioman said:


> I don't see any sign of it...and don't know when she would even be able to carry on an affair. If it were someone else at least I would know what this is about.



Cheaters always find time for an affair. My Ex Husband managed to have one for several months with no real changes to his schedule that I could see. He left for work at the same time came home at the same time, spent the same amount of time on hobbies...Point is, they fit it in.

This is classic cheater behavior. Sorry either way you are in a rough spot.


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## Voltaire2013

B-man,

You mention the new exciting life wrt the job, can you expand on that? Cosmos with the girls after work? New friends? Suddenly working out or dressing differently? 

Do you have access to her phone records? Can you see if a number comes up a lot?


What does your gut tell you? What where her reasons for separating? 

HTH,
V(13)




Bioman said:


> I don't see any sign of it...and don't know when she would even be able to carry on an affair. If it were someone else at least I would know what this is about.


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## Lostinthought61

They ALWAYS say no...but that does not mean something is not in the works. you can't find something you weren't looking for....


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## Bioman

Her reason is mainly not feeling connected. She has mentioned that in the past and I have consciously worked on it. 

As far as the new exciting life -- she is not going out with friends much. The excitement is just her job which has given her a lot of confidence etc. I have been very supportive of it. She has usually been at home or at work or out with me.


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## Dude007

I'd say 90 percent chance of an affair


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## LisaKane

What exactly does she mean by not feeling connected? Can you elaborate as this could mean many different things? Also, what does she mean by you deserving better? Not clear on where you are coming from...or where she is coming from.


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## Bioman

LisaKane: I don't know where she is coming from either. She sometimes has said we don't communicate well...but I am very attentive to her. 
Before me she was engaged to someone else and she broke it off less than one week before the wedding. Then we met and married within two years. Of course that was a long time ago. Probably irrelevant.


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## livnlif

I just learned after 17 yrs of marriage my wife wants to just be friend and she needs space also. What personality type is she? My wife is an INFJ and I'm opposite of that. Has she said that you don't get her or will never understand her? Unless you have done something to cause this, she might be seeing someone else.


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## ReidWright

2-4-6-8! time for you to investigate!

clam up, and start figuring out what's going on. You have more than enough red flags here.


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## Dude007

dude007 said:


> i'd say 90 percent chance of an affair


i repeat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Bioman

Livinlife, had to look up INFJ . Neither of us fit that. Sorry what you are going thru.


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## EVG39

Bioman said:


> *Her reason is mainly not feeling connected. She has mentioned that in the past and I have consciously worked on it.
> *
> Okay, for a second step out of your pain and think only logically. She says she feels disconnected from you and her solution to the disconnectedness is to ask for a separation. On what planet does that make any sense at all? Do you begin to see why folks here don't buy there isn't an affair? Have you done any sleuthing at all? How about answering this one. Since she got the new job has she suddenly developed a more intimate relationship with her cellphone? That might be your first tip.
> As far as the new exciting life -- she is not going out with friends much. The excitement is just her job which has given her a lot of confidence etc. I have been very supportive of it. She has usually been at home or at work or out with me.


 My bet there is someone at work she has either developed a romantic interest in or is filling her head with otherwise toxic material. Is she talking about anyone in particular? Doesn't have to be a man. Could be a poisonous friendship she might have developed.


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## terrence4159

in the words of the great and all knowing jeff foxworthy.....if they want to seperate they are already riding another horse or have one picked out and the saddle out of the barn......sorry shes cheating on you either ea or pa.


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## bandit.45

She's in an affair. Nothing special. We see it all the time.


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## MarriedDude

has the marriage "not been good" ? How long? All 29 years?

what else has been going on?

Have you ever cheated on her?


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## Nomorebeans

I was married for 24 years when my husband announced that things weren't right between us, he wanted to separate, and there was nothing I could say or do to change his mind. Swore there was no one else. When she texted and drunk dialed him four months later in rapid succession at 11:30 on a Friday night when he dropped his guard about protecting his cell phone, he tried to claim she was just someone he "might be interested in." Turned out they'd met five months earlier, had had sex several times since then, and were already picking out wedding songs, rings, and venues by the time I found out.

Unfortunately, many of us speak from experience. Sorry it looks like you've joined the club.


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## LisaKane

You are being fooled. Sorry.


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## Bioman

I have been completely faithful thru-out marriage. And I just don't see it as a bad marriage. She has complained from time to time about communication but as I said I have been very attentive to her in recent history. She is now sleeping in our son's old bedroom. This morning she said she still loves me very much. But she wants to move out and have some space. As I write this it sure sounds like infidelity but I just don't see the signs. Could be something at work as EVG39 suggested, but we talk a lot about her work and I don't get the sense that there is anyone there influencing her. She does not come in contact with a lot of coworkers. I am sure I am sounding naive here.


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## Bioman

Just went downstairs. She was eating breakfast and I asked her if she was planning on dating during separation. She said we should not do that and instead use the space to think about our marriage. 
Our son will be visiting for a week in late July. I was so looking forward to that but now it will be difficult. She hasn't said anything to either of the kids.


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## SecondTime'Round

Bioman said:


> Just went downstairs. She was eating breakfast and I asked her if she was planning on dating during separation. She said we *should *not do that and instead use the space to think about our marriage.
> Our son will be visiting for a week in late July. I was so looking forward to that but now it will be difficult. She hasn't said anything to either of the kids.


Should doesn't mean will.


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## bandit.45

You're getting hosed friend. You have a lot of experienced people here telling you that she is lying to you. 

Cheaters lie. They lie and they hide their tracks very well. I'll bet if you grabbed her phone and locked yourself in the bathroom you would quickly find out all you need to know. Or get a VAR and hide it under the front seat of her car. 

She's cheating on you. ALL the classic signs are there.


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## happyman64

Bioman

I am married 24 years and have known my wife over 30 years.

If my wife ever said she wanted to move out and separate I would take her to my lawyers office and hammer out a separation agreement.

It would cover the property, the house, the finances, inheritance for the kids and conditions of the separation.

Those conditions would cover the maximum length of the separation as well as dating/contact with each other.

And if any of those conditions were broken the end result would be unconditional divorce.

My wife would ask me why am I doing this?

My response would be this:

1. You made a commitment to me 29 years ago which you are now changing/breaking in my mind.

2. You are giving me no choice in the matter so I am going to protect what we have since you are not willing to do so.

3. You are obviously lying to me or omitting the truth why you feel you need to separate or interrupt the marriage. Therefore, I have no choice but to legally protect myself, our assets and in the end our childrens future.


Make her think. Make her understand there are consequences for her bad decisions even before she makes them.

Do not be a push over and force her to give you the respect you deserve.

And you need to realize that no matter what happens you will be better with her or without her.

That is all up to you.

Now go give her a dose of reality and make sure she understands that even if she wants to move out of the marital home any additional living expenses she incurs are on her.

HM


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## Bioman

She was out by the pool and I told her I was going for a run. I instead went around and back inside thru the front door. From the bathroom window I could see her sitting by the pool and talking on the phone. I could not hear what she was saying but I think she was talking to her sister-in-law who she is very close to. I'm pretty sure she was crying a bit. Wish I could have heard.


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## RClawson

Bioman,

Slow down and listen closely to the voices here. They are the voices of experience. Happyman is spot on with his advice if she wants to pursue this. Take charge and make it happen on your terms. The other thing is that you do not "work" on your marriage by moving out and you know this. You work on it by seeing a counselor who you have vetted as a known commodity who actually helps couples find resolutions not blame. 

There is absolutely something going on here. You need to take a peek at the phone records and confirm if she is have an inordinate amount of contact with one specific person.


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## GusPolinski

@Bioman, has your wife been secretive w/ her phone or other electronic devices of late?

Do you have access to the phone bill in order to see details w/ respect to calls and texts?


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## happyman64

So you couldn't have quietly walked up behind her to catch a few words?

Or leave a var in a convenient place to catch her conversation out but the pool??

Or better yet put another VAR in her car under the seat to record her private conversations???

All is fair in love and war.

But at least you would know what is going on through her mind.

And that is worth some thing.

That way you do not have to put her SIL on the spot nor your wife.

Yet.


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## scatty

She needs "space" to tend to or troll for another man. Unless there is abuse, mental illness or addiction in your marriage, the marriage may well be over. So sorry this has happened to you.


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## Yeswecan

Here is the deal. Working on a marriage requires living together. Separating means just that. Your W is up to more than just needing space to work on a marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tech-novelist

Listen to the people here. This screams affair.
Also, has she told you "I love you but I'm not in love with you", by any chance?


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## Pianoguy

*


Bioman said:



We have been married almost 29 years.

Click to expand...

*​
I can relate - I was married 32 years when she left me. Our 3 adult children are all married, and now 5 years on the other side (but 6 grandchildren later), the separation and divorce don't sting as bad, but I think, if we worked through other situations, why couldn't we resolve & reconcile.

My wife prior to the separation, said she wanted me to move out. I told her, I wasn't going to leave the marital home. She left the house, I stayed put. It has been the hardest thing I've ever gone through, with the alienation, her attempt to turn the adult children against me, and all that. Your wife might say she doesn't have the feelings she once had - as one who heard the same thing - the reason she isn't is that the longer her attention and affection is held by another, its seems to be a common reason the other spouse hears.

I'd suggest bringing in a 3rd party / counselor. If she doesn't want it, then I'd encourage you to get counseling. I did that myself and its made all the difference in the world. In fact I still see the counselor each month.

Hope this might provide some help - thanks for sharing your heart.


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## SurpriseMyself

It doesn't necessarily mean affair. Giving ultimatums and jumping to conclusions are both immature and rash decisions. For gods sake, talk to her. And listen with you heart and head without defensiveness.


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## tech-novelist

SurpriseMyself said:


> It doesn't necessarily mean affair. Giving ultimatums and jumping to conclusions are both immature and rash decisions. For gods sake, talk to her. And listen with you heart and head without defensiveness.


True, it's not necessarily an affair.
I estimate the probability at 95%+, though.


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## bandit.45

SurpriseMyself said:


> It doesn't necessarily mean affair. Giving ultimatums and jumping to conclusions are both immature and rash decisions. For gods sake, talk to her. And listen with you heart and head without defensiveness.


Want to make a wager?

If I'm wrong I'll stay off TAM for 30 days. If I win you write "Bandit is a Genius" twenty times. :bringiton:


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## john117

Who paid for her to go to school and enable her career? Could be a simple case of Cake-itis...


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## Bioman

Thank you everyone. As Surprisemyself says, it is not necessarily an affair. In fact, after talking last night I think might be a mental breakdown--as Scatty suggested. I will keep vigilant on possibility of affair though. Still doesn't make it easy. I don't know what will happen. I have to take care of myself which I have been neglecting since all this happened. I hardly can eat or concentrate on work. Just don't know how this will end up. 
Piano guy, thank you for your story. Was it an affair in your case? I have a councilor appt for this week and am trying to get her to see someone also.


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## Pkwanderer

Why don't you take up a new career & bring some excitement in your life? If your spouse is not drawn to you, and given what you have written, she probably won't, so better make your own life rather then looking back. The future doesn't lay in the rear-view mirror. Whats over, cannot be undone. Look forward & live your own life to the fullest.


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## MattMatt

Bioman said:


> Just went downstairs. She was eating breakfast and I asked her if she was planning on dating during separation. She said we should not do that and instead use the space to think about our marriage.
> Our son will be visiting for a week in late July. I was so looking forward to that but now it will be difficult. She hasn't said anything to either of the kids.


Can I translate that you for you?

YOU should not be allowed to date during your separation.

But she will be allowed to date.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

Bioman

You could be right.

She might be having a breakdown. 
Or menopause could be making her crazy..
Or she could honestly want a break from you, family or life in general.

It might even be an affair. Who really knows. Only her. Maybe her SIL.

What worries me is why she would not tell you! Especially after being married to you for so long.

So heed my advice. If she chooses to leave, to separate, make it official with a lawyer involved to protect you, your wife, your kids future and all assets.

Hold her accountable. Make the separation conditions clear for both of you.

Because you cannot count on her making good decisions for both of you no matter what her issue truly is.

And if you can get her to see an IC I think that would be helpful to her.

HM


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## SurpriseMyself

I don't suspect mental breakdown so much as she is at a crossroads. She finds that a new career and new experiences leave her questioning her former life and whether SHE has been living to the fullest. This is a hard thing for anyone to acknowledge and come to terms with. If you look back and see a hum drum life, you may be the kind of person who doesn't want things to continue being that way. Life can seem fleeting and short when you hit middle age.

To the OP - do you do the same things day in and day out? Go to the same places, see the same friends, wear the same clothes, talk about the same things? Is routine and sameness your comfort zone? If so, she probably looking at a life with you as filled with routine and sameness and while she may still love you, she doesn't want what she has always had. It can be hard to say to your spouse that you find them boring/not exciting, and she doesn't want to hurt your feelings. 

All of this is just guessing on my part. She holds her truth. Buy I can tell you first hand that I don't want to look back and feel that I stayed with the same boring routine. To me, it's soul crushing.


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## Betrayedone

Give her the shock and awe treatment........Follow happymans advice.........


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## SurpriseMyself

If my H gave me the shock and awe, I'd tell him to shove it where the sun doesn't shine.


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## Betrayedone

SurpriseMyself said:


> If my H gave me the shock and awe, I'd tell him to shove it where the sun doesn't shine.


If you deserve it you have it coming no matter what you say your reaction would be.............That kind of reaction would just make it easier for him or anyone else to let you go..........Makes you feel better, though so you've got that to hang your hat on........


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## Dude007

I'm lowering affair odds down to 70 percent based on what u have said. She may just be in a straight up mid life crisis but it's rare an affair doesn't accompany it.


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## EleGirl

Betrayedone said:


> If you deserve it you have it coming no matter what you say your reaction would be.............That kind of reaction would just make it easier for him or anyone else to let you go..........Makes you feel better, though so you've got that to hang your hat on........


Shock and awe is a very aggressive tactic that would most likely blow up in the OP's face.

So far his wife has done nothing (according to the OP) that warrants being attacked. Every human has the right to deal with their issues. If it means that she needs some time along, that's ok.

I don't even think that Happyman was talking about shock and awe. I think he was just talking about having clear us rule and an agreement in place for the separation. 

There is just a propensity here to turn everything into a form of aggression.


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## Bioman

Thank you everyone. The daughter is 28 and married and son is 26. She was stay-at-home mother. My life is boring. I've had the same job for the last 23 years and my life is routine. Maybe that is the problem. I tried to deal with the "lack of connection" but maybe I don't really know how.


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## EleGirl

Bioman said:


> Thank you everyone. The daughter is 28 and married and son is 26. She was stay-at-home mother. My life is boring. I've had the same job for the last 23 years and my life is routine. Maybe that is the problem. I tried to deal with the "lack of connection" but maybe I don't really know how.


A lot of people have boring lives like that. I do too. It can take a lot of effort to keep the job and some routine but spice up your life.

What were the things that you like doing before life become boring? What did you and she do when you were dating and first married?

On the topic of how to connect. That's a hard one. Has she told you want she needs to feel connected? How many hours a week were you and she spending together, just the two of you doing things that you both enjoy?


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## soccermom2three

Just because a woman has "come to Jesus" talk with her husband doesn't mean she's having an affair. I had the talk with my husband 3 years ago, the only difference is that I didn't ask to separate but I had gone back to work after being a SAHM for 7 years. We were living like roommates that have sex or FWBs. Of course he was happy because you know, sex. I'm so glad he actually listened instead of changing for a week or immediately going into defense mode or "she's having an affair" mode. I always wonder if men with walk away wives got the talk and ignored it and then wonder why their wives went *poof*.


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## SurpriseMyself

I find it so interesting how many men are so quick to jump on the "she's having an affair" and "stand your ground" advice when most women who say they aren't happy are just that - not happy! But we lie, don't we? We play games, we don't say what we need, etc. 

May if men didn't react like petulant children we could actually get through!


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## SurpriseMyself

I have read that the best and quickest way to rekindle that spark between you two is to do something exciting together that neither of you have done before. It brings you together and gives you not only new experiences, but new shared experiences. So, do that now if you can.


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## john117

It really has to do with the rate of change and her attitude up to that point. An affair tends to be - pardon the pun - hit and run. Option B creeps upon the marriage a lot slower.


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## bandit.45

She's having an affair.


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## Nitty

She's definitely having an affair.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Separation is shock and awe, it is also a aggressive.


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## SurpriseMyself

The OP said his wife has been saying for a while that they aren't connecting. Given the length of their marriage, she's probably in her early 50s. This woman didn't dump his clothes on the lawn and lock him out. She didn't pack her bags and leave him a note. She didn't tell him to change or else she's leaving. She has been trying to communicate and says she needs space. That is hardly aggressive shock and awe, unless you love in a purely black and white world. She's not being forceful or angry, but simply trying to figure out where she wants to steer her life.


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## phillybeffandswiss

> That is hardly aggressive shock and awe


Interesting rewrite of what I typed, which colors your ironic "black and white" love comment. 

Anyway, H64 has the best advice. Obviously, talk and get as much information as you can. Then listen to his post.


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## the guy

SurpriseMyself said:


> The OP said his wife has been saying for a while that they aren't connecting. Given the length of their marriage, she's probably in her early 50s. This woman didn't dump his clothes on the lawn and lock him out. She didn't pack her bags and leave him a note. She didn't tell him to change or else she's leaving. She has been trying to communicate and says she needs space. That is hardly aggressive shock and awe, unless you love in a purely black and white world. She's not being forceful or angry, but simply trying to figure out where she wants to steer her life.


Lets hope she steers her life towards the family unit. It would be a shame if the disconnect was infected by a third party and OP had no chance in competing with new love.
Hopefuly OP is not in a compitition and has a chance in rebuilding the family unit.


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## RClawson

SurpriseMyself said:


> The OP said his wife has been saying for a while that they aren't connecting. Given the length of their marriage, she's probably in her early 50s. This woman didn't dump his clothes on the lawn and lock him out. She didn't pack her bags and leave him a note. She didn't tell him to change or else she's leaving. She has been trying to communicate and says she needs space. That is hardly aggressive shock and awe, unless you love in a purely black and white world. She's not being forceful or angry, but simply trying to figure out where she wants to steer her life.


She may have told him they are not connecting but I believe it is a safe assumption that the SIL knows more than he does. Separation is not a solution for someone that wants to work on a relationship. It truly is quite the opposite. One does not "try" to communicate. Either you do or you do not. If you cannot you find a trusted 3rd party (professional) who can help you "both" master this.


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## bandit.45

Separation is running. Running away from ones problems. Simple as that. It has nothing to do with space. 

Space is for astronauts.


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## arbitrator

bandit.45 said:


> Separation is running. Running away from ones problems. Simple as that. It has nothing to do with space.
> 
> Space is for astronauts.


* Vernacular much like "we need a trial separation," "I need my space," "you deserve far better than me," or even hearing the internationally famous line "ILYBINILWY" just preemptively screams "I need my space away from you so as to carry on my affair and get my rocks off in another man or woman's bed, all without your knowledge and/or presence! You're yesterday's news and I need someone far more exciting to rock my world!"

Been there ~ done that! Hearing any of these bylines rolling out from a spouses lips certainly merits "probable cause" and should in the very least, have one going into an investigatory mode. To not do so is greatly tantamount to the proverbial ostrich burying their head in the sand!

And as you peruse these most lengthy TAM annals, you'll richly find the sad but despicable truth about what these jaded words almost always reveal about deception and wanton infidelity!*


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## EleGirl

While those phrases are often said by people who are or want to cheat, they are also said by those who are not looking to cheat. 

They might indicate a need to do some snooping, but the phrases alone are not enough to just call a person a cheater.


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## sh987

> "I've seen so many spouses lie about affairs, that when one spouse wants a separation, my best guess is that he or she is having an affair. I'm right almost every time.
> 
> Why would anyone need to be alone to sort things out? It makes much more sense to think that being separated makes it easier to be with their lover. Granted, there are many good reasons for a separation, such as physical or extreme mental abuse. But of all those I've seen separate, most have had lovers in the wings."
> 
> Dr. Willard Harley, author "His Needs Her Needs"


Coping with Infidelity: Beginning (Part 1)

I don't know if your spouse is having an affair, but I'm inclined to go with the guy who has been doing this since the late 60s, has seen it all, and has written some of the top material on the subject.


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## aine

EleGirl said:


> While those phrases are often said by people who are or want to cheat, they are also said by those who are not looking to cheat.
> 
> They might indicate a need to do some snooping, but the phrases alone are not enough to just call a person a cheater.


I agree with EleGirl. Often marriages become humdrum and spouses live like ships passing in the night, taking each other for granted. It is usually the wife who has her finger on the pulse of the marriage first and if it is dying calls out to the H for help/ assistance, recognition of the problems and action. 
ually the H is away in his own world, he works, has golf, hobbies, buddies, etc has a home, family, wife to come home to, nothing is wrong (or so it seems) he thinks his wife is whining, nagging, etc and does not listen. Those words can be said over and over, he hears whining, nagging, etc. 

Many times there is no third party only a wife who has put up and shut up for years and now that the kids are grown has had enough and is not afraid to walk, hence the Walkaway wife. Although this scenario may lead to an affair as she is not getting her emotional needs met (much the same way as a man is not getting his sexual needs met) she may get it elsewhere, but there is usually a long slide downwards first. Just saying.


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## Bioman

Thank you. I am trying to give her "space" by staying away from the house while she is there. Yesterday afternoon I hung out at my brother's (altho he doesn't know what's going on and I do my best to not let on how sad I am. His wife asked me if everything is OK so I think I am not hiding it that well). But it doesn't feel right to be staying away from her given what the issue is. Surprisemyself suggests doing something different together. But how do we when we are suppose to be separated? 
I understand that what I described tpically means affair, but I am just not seeing that here.


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## SurpriseMyself

While men and women cheat in equal numbers, women file for divorce twice as often as men. And the reason most women leave is due to neglect in some form. They feel lonely and disconnected. Men usually jump right into the arms of the next woman, while women take time to look inward after a marriage ends.

I will say that you need to find out the real reason she wants to be away from you. I suspect this has been a long time coming, and it may be very hard to get her back if you can at all. But if you don't at least tell her that you want to fight for her, then she will take the space you give her and make a new life. Now is the time to "man up," but not in all the aggressive ways the angry men on TAM propose. You need to ask yourself what she would see in you today. If you weren't married and just met, would she find you funny, interesting, attractive? Or would she not notice you because you have faded from life?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Good luck to you Bioman. I hope against hope it is not what I think it is.


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## Dude007

SurpriseMyself said:


> While men and women cheat in equal numbers, women file for divorce twice as often as men. And the reason most women leave is due to neglect in some form. They feel lonely and disconnected. Men usually jump right into the arms of the next woman, while women take time to look inward after a marriage ends.
> 
> I will say that you need to find out the real reason she wants to be away from you. I suspect this has been a long time coming, and it may be very hard to get her back if you can at all. But if you don't at least tell her that you want to fight for her, then she will take the space you give her and make a new life. Now is the time to "man up," but not in all the aggressive ways the angry men on TAM propose. You need to ask yourself what she would see in you today. If you weren't married and just met, would she find you funny, interesting, attractive? Or would she not notice you because you have faded from life?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is a great post, the more this thread goes on the lower I rate the odds of an affair. I'm taking it down to 30% now! I think she is flat out bored and disconnected and MLC blaming her spouse.


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## tech-novelist

Dude007 said:


> This is a great post, the more this thread goes on the lower I rate the odds of an affair. I'm taking it down to 30% now! I think she is flat out bored and disconnected and MLC blaming her spouse.


There's only one way to find out, which of course is to get the information about what she is actually doing, who she is talking to, etc.


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## Chaparral

Leaving your spouse, moving out, and leaving him in your rear veiw mirror is about as hard a shock and awe i can imagine.

Why havent you checked her phone records at least?


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## Chaparral

You seem to be ignoring all the advise you have gottn here. Maybe you ignore your wife also.


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## Yeswecan

Bioman said:


> Thank you. I am trying to give her "space" by staying away from the house while she is there. Yesterday afternoon I hung out at my brother's (altho he doesn't know what's going on and I do my best to not let on how sad I am. His wife asked me if everything is OK so I think I am not hiding it that well). But it doesn't feel right to be staying away from her given what the issue is. Surprisemyself suggests doing something different together. But how do we when we are suppose to be separated?
> I understand that what I described tpically means affair, but I am just not seeing that here.


Instead of giving your W space give her D papers. Your W will be welcomed to reality of her wanting to separate. As I stated, separating is not working on a marriage. It is anything but. File, serve and proceed. The D can be stopped at any time. Specifically if you W is willing to work on the marriage and stop the separation trial she is peddling.


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## Dude007

technovelist said:


> There's only one way to find out, which of course is to get the information about what she is actually doing, who she is talking to, etc.


I agree, at least to rule it out...


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## Lostinthought61

why not rule out an affair by at least placing some VARs in place to listen in on whether there is an affair or not.


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## Chaparral

Have you told your wife you are totally opposed to a separation and that you believe its just going to lead to divorce?

Ask her why a husband should trust a wife that wants to move out?


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## terrence4159

do what you feel is right bioman you have to live with it. 

the reason i say that is you have to live with it and if you read enough stories here you will see why most here are saying affair. you will also see that the advice changes (bet i get banned for this...but) there are some here telling you not to jump the gun she may just need her space but if it was your wife asking what you are they would be telling her to cut off your testicles and feed them to the dog and divorce you.

thats why i said do what you feel is right. i am in the she is cheating camp, you cannot reconnect when you seperate. a bs story.


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## SurpriseMyself

Chaparral said:


> Leaving your spouse, moving out, and leaving him in your rear veiw mirror is about as hard a shock and awe i can imagine.
> 
> Why havent you checked her phone records at least?


As the old saying goes, "Women grieve the end of the relationship while they are still in it while men grieve it after it is over."

I think that saying reveals a lot about why men feel "shock and awe." He should have seen it coming, but alas he didn't assess the relationship even as she said she was unhappy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedDude

SurpriseMyself said:


> While men and women cheat in equal numbers, women file for divorce twice as often as men. And the reason most women leave is due to neglect in some form. They feel lonely and disconnected. Men usually jump right into the arms of the next woman, *while women take time to look inward after a marriage ends.*
> 
> I will say that you need to find out the real reason she wants to be away from you. I suspect this has been a long time coming, and it may be very hard to get her back if you can at all. But if you don't at least tell her that you want to fight for her, then she will take the space you give her and make a new life. Now is the time to "man up," but not in all the aggressive ways the angry men on TAM propose. You need to ask yourself what she would see in you today. If you weren't married and just met, would she find you funny, interesting, attractive? Or would she not notice you because you have faded from life?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Got anything to back that up?

Because...that has not been my experience either as a divorce mediator or just a dude walking the earth.


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## MarriedDude

SurpriseMyself said:


> As the old saying goes, "Women grieve the end of the relationship while they are still in it while men grieve it after it is over."
> 
> I think that saying reveals a lot about why men feel "shock and awe." He should have seen it coming, but alas he didn't assess the relationship even as she said she was unhappy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So many old sayings...

When there is a doubt..there is no doubt

Trust but verify

Believe what you see more than what you hear

The simplest answer is most often the correct one


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## SurpriseMyself

MarriedDude said:


> Got anything to back that up?
> 
> Because...that has not been my experience either as a divorce mediator or just a dude walking the earth.


Only an informal poll on TAM where I asked men how long they waited until they entered a new relationship. It wasn't long. Asked women the same and they agreed with the above.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

SurpriseMyself said:


> As the old saying goes, "Women grieve the end of the relationship while they are still in it while men grieve it after it is over."
> 
> I think that saying reveals a lot about why men feel "shock and awe." He should have seen it coming, but alas he didn't assess the relationship even as she said she was unhappy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Doesn't give her the right to ask for a separation based on lame excuses, when what she really wants to do is find his replacement. 

There is another "old" saying: "Don't piss down my back and tell me its raining."

If she wants out of the marriage she needs to tell him so and offer him a fair divorce...none of this half-ass manipulation.


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## Bioman

Chaparral, I am not ignoring advice. There is a lot of conflicting advice here and I am considering all and am grateful for it all.


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## MarriedDude

SurpriseMyself said:


> Only an informal poll on TAM where I asked men how long they waited until they entered a new relationship. It wasn't long. Asked women the same and they agreed with the above.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Kinda seems akin to asking a women how many sexual partners she has had....

There is an old saying about that too

Multiply by 5.

Not that anyone would embellish, on an informal poll
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld

This helped one man on this site:

Reconciliation with a Hardened Wife


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## phillybeffandswiss

Bioman said:


> She has mentioned that in the past and I have consciously worked on it.


Please detail how these conversations went.


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## Bioman

Phillybefandwiss: It was usually a statement that we are not communicating. But nothing more specific. I was definitely listening to her talk about her problems and being very attentive when this happened.


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## Chaparral

SurpriseMyself said:


> As the old saying goes, "Women grieve the end of the relationship while they are still in it while men grieve it after it is over."
> 
> I think that saying reveals a lot about why men feel "shock and awe." He should have seen it coming, but alas he didn't assess the relationship even as she said she was unhappy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The number one rule of English 101 as it was taught in 1970, was that it is the speakers responsibility to make themselves understood. The simple logic is that only the speaker knows what is being conveyed. The listener is at the mercy of the speaker's ability to convey a thought.

In more recent, progressive thought, men are supposed to read their SO's mind to make sure all emotional needs are met. 

Fortunately, the women in both my parents families had no trouble letting anyone know exactly what they were trying to say. Unfortunately, from what I read here, men need a translator in half the relationships on this board.:laugh:


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## Chaparral

Bioman said:


> Chaparral, I am not ignoring advice. There is a lot of conflicting advice here and I am considering all and am grateful for it all.


The consensus is the odds are she has a new love interest. This is usually easy to find out with one or two $60 voice activated recorders and a thorough examination of phone text records. Experience here tells us the probability this is true over 80% probability. The person being cheated on rarely notices what's going on. .Statistically, the vast majority of affairs, studies claim, are never caught.

Once you get infidelity disproven, there are other things to help save your marriage. So far you say she is disconnected. Did she offer to go get a counselor for herself? Did she ask for a marriage counselor? She certainly should have.

Your number one move should be to ask your grown children if they know why she is leaving you. That's what family is for. I wouldn't tell your SIL you saw your wife talking to her and crying, but I would reach out to her and ask her if she knows what's going on.

You haven't really told us much to go on and that is odd.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Bioman said:


> Phillybefandwiss: It was usually a statement that we are not communicating. *But nothing more specific.* I was definitely listening to her talk about her problems and being very attentive when this happened.


Okay.
Now, here is the key, did you ask her questions and were they effectively answered? 

I'll explain my reasoning after you respond.


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## the guy

So are you going down to SpyDepot and pick up some spy gear and prove us all wrong ...or what?

At the very least pick the Acme Super Power Microphone so the next time you can hear what your old lady is saying at the pool when you go for a run and she gets on the phone as soon as your @ss is out the door.


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## the guy

Seriously go get a VAR and plant it in her car....then you can figure out what your up against and come up with a plan based on facts....and stop speculating whats going on in your old ladies head.


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## aine

I love this video because it shows how different men and women are in terms of problems in a marriage. Men often think the ship (marriage) is sailing along fine , the wife doesn't communicate well her issues (the ship is going in the wrong direction, taking in water, etc) and then shock horror she leaves or wants a separation. Many assume there is someone else, that may be so but not in all cases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI04mgVVr9w


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## Bioman

Phillybefandswiss: I did ask for clarification. She never could get very specific. I'm beginning to think this is an atypical case. Based on observations I don't see another man although I remain vigilant. I have not by any stretch been ignoring her - especially in the last couple years. May be some mental breakdown ?


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## Dude007

Bioman said:


> Phillybefandswiss: I did ask for clarification. She never could get very specific. I'm beginning to think this is an atypical case. Based on observations I don't see another man although I remain vigilant. I have not by any stretch been ignoring her - especially in the last couple years. May be some mental breakdown ?


Does she drink a lot or take any psyche meds?


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## Hopefull363

Read Day One's thread in Reconciliation. He does an awesome job of using his wife's need for space in working on himself. This in turn is making his wife fall in love with the new man he is.

Took me 3 days to read that thread. I'm so glad I did. What an inspirational, great read.


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## Bioman

She does not drink a lot ---often just one beer after work. Today is a very tough day for some reason. Checking in with a lot of friends for support. I think all the advice you all can give me is played out until there is some new development, and I will check in then. Thank you.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Bioman said:


> I think all the advice you all can give me is played out until there is some new development, and I will check in then. Thank you.


No the advice is not "played out" you are choosing to wait.


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## MarriedDude

jld said:


> This helped one man on this site:
> 
> Reconciliation with a Hardened Wife


That was a really good read. 

Should be required reading for young men wanting to get married. I hope OP took the time


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## arbitrator

SurpriseMyself said:


> While men and women cheat in equal numbers, women file for divorce twice as often as men. And the reason most women leave is due to neglect in some form. They feel lonely and disconnected. *Men usually jump right into the arms of the next woman, while women take time to look inward after a marriage ends.*
> 
> I will say that you need to find out the real reason she wants to be away from you. I suspect this has been a long time coming, and it may be very hard to get her back if you can at all. But if you don't at least tell her that you want to fight for her, then she will take the space you give her and make a new life. Now is the time to "man up," but not in all the aggressive ways the angry men on TAM propose. You need to ask yourself what she would see in you today. If you weren't married and just met, would she find you funny, interesting, attractive? Or would she not notice you because you have faded from life?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


* Try convincing my rich, skanky XW of that theory of yours! While I was being faithful at home, she was all too busy running the Texas highways on her business road trips, and summarily being "looked down upon" by BF's from her distant past!

The only "reflecting" on her part that I'm even acutely aware of was with her secretive pelvic gyrations off in another man's bed!*


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## Chaparral

You seem to be adamant about going down with the ship. Im surprised you came looking for advise and revealed basically nothing that your wife has actually said except she wants to move out. Very odd indeed.


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## SurpriseMyself

arbitrator said:


> * Try convincing my rich, skanky XW of that theory of yours! While I was being faithful at home, she was all too busy running the Texas highways on her business road trips, and summarily being "looked down upon" by BF's from her distant past!
> 
> The only "reflecting" on her part that I'm even acutely aware of was with her secretive pelvic gyrations off in another man's bed!*


Cheaters are distinctly different from those who look at their relationship honestly and question it. They may suffer the same inner doubts, but how they address those doubts is totally opposite. One goes outward and finds temporary distraction, no matter the hurt it causes, while the other turns inward and wants to know why they feel like they do.

People here are assuming both are the same, but they are certainly not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dude007

Chaparral said:


> You seem to be adamant about going down with the ship. Im surprised you came looking for advise and revealed basically nothing that your wife has actually said except she wants to move out. Very odd indeed.


Could it be the wife throwing out trial balloons under an alias to see how to better bow out of the relationship strategically? IDK Its very odd indeed.


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## Borntohang

Why haven't you gotten a Voice Activated Recorder? You've received some wonderful advice! I hope you start "doing" instead of listening! 
Do you secretly want this to end??


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## Hicks

She may not be having an affair. But she is betraying you in some way becuase she said that you deserve better. She got a job and her life with you looks boring by comparison. She is probably interstested spedifically in someone else because most of the things she told you are comparative... What does it mean that we have no connection? That's not definable. But she can compare one connection to another. She can compare the fantasy of a new life with the reality of her current life.

The thing is, the new life she wants whether she is cheating or not is still just a fantasy. If you want your marriage back you have to break the fantasy. The best way to do it is to make her fantasy a reality. And you have to make that reality as bad as possible for her. And this is where you are currently failing. You are making it good. Example: Staying away from your own house.


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## livnlif

Update to my post from June 2015.
Well, a lot has happened since then. She told me that she has a connection with someone else and can feel the other person and seems to constantly think about them, since about 3 weeks ago. Now she says that she doesn't think about him yet sees him 4 times a week (with other people around). Last night she blew up at the fact I don't think like her because I didn't move some things while she mows. Then after I explained what I was doing she brought up another item where I said the Olive Garden soup I was eating was a bit too salty for my liking. That blew up and said I was always complaining when her mom is around. Oh my. Then today, she brought up every thing that has hurt her. She says that she is scared to be around me and whatever she does is wrong. I complement her often on all the good and for the life of me I don't know what I have said that she didn't do right. This is probably my fault in not seeing what I'm doing. Now she has indicated that I need to spend a week with my parents because she feels like I'm a ticking time bomb. I'm emotionally drained beyond repair.


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## Marc878

livnlif said:


> Update to my post from June 2015.
> Well, a lot has happened since then. * She told me that she has a connection with someone else and can feel the other person and seems to constantly think about them, since about 3 weeks ago. Now she says that she doesn't think about him yet sees him 4 times a week (with other people around).* Last night she blew up at the fact I don't think like her because I didn't move some things while she mows. Then after I explained what I was doing she brought up another item where I said the Olive Garden soup I was eating was a bit too salty for my liking. That blew up and said I was always complaining when her mom is around. Oh my. Then today, she brought up every thing that has hurt her. She says that she is scared to be around me and whatever she does is wrong. I complement her often on all the good and for the life of me I don't know what I have said that she didn't do right. This is probably my fault in not seeing what I'm doing. Now she has indicated that I need to spend a week with my parents because she feels like I'm a ticking time bomb. I'm emotionally drained beyond repair.


Not sure why you're on this thread but This wreaks of an affair. Red flags all over. Check your phone bill and wake up. You can't do anything with another man in the marriage. Your behavior is doormatish to say the least.


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## 3Xnocharm

If she really wants out, let her go.


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## jsmart

Come on. She's had or is still having an affair. If it's over the damage has been done. A husband of 29 years can't compete with the passion a woman feels during an illicit affair. She rewritten the marital history to make you the boring man that's holding her back. Probably was in a relationship with a POS that future faked and she wanted to test drive but he back out after he's already done her every way to Sunday. 

Now that she feels stuck with you, she's very angry. No matter what you do, it'll be wrong. I've read of WWs complaining of how a husband loads dishwasher. She's looking to fight, so she can have an excuse to avoid intimacy besides you fall short of Mr Wonderful co-worker she was cheating with. 

You turn it around, when you turn yourself around. She's improved herself, probably with a lot of support from you, now you must do the same. Time to put yourself 1st. Get a life. I recommend you read MMSL primer. It's a guide for men to become better husbands in ways that matter to women. As you become a better husband and man, if she comes around great. If not, you're a better man to meet the next woman.


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## Thound

Marc878 said:


> Not sure why you're on this thread but This wreaks of an affair. Red flags all over. Check your phone bill and wake up. You can't do anything with another man in the marriage. Your behavior is doormatish to say the least.


I sent Livinlif a message to see if he had any updates on an old thread. I think he updated the wrong thread.


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## MrHappyHat

livnlif said:


> She says that she is scared to be around me and whatever she does is wrong. I complement her often on all the good and for the life of me I don't know what I have said that she didn't do right. This is probably my fault in not seeing what I'm doing. Now she has indicated that I need to spend a week with my parents because she feels like I'm a ticking time bomb. I'm emotionally drained beyond repair.


She's positioning to get you out of the house so that she can claim sole possession during the divorce. If you don't leave you're going to be facing a restraining order.

Lawyer up. (And move your reply to your own thread.)


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