# Where to go from here



## whichway (Nov 26, 2014)

Hi everyone.

Been lurking for the last 4 weeks but first time posting.

Basically my wife and I have been together for 6 years and married for the last 2. Last month while I was working away a weekend something didn't sit right with me about my wife and her behaviour so I checked up on her.

She had told me she was off to see her friend for dinner then out into town with her and her boyfriend to a party and then back to stay at her friends house. Spoke to her once during the day but then couldn't reach her. I didn't hear from her till 12 the next day - she said her phone had died. She told me she had got drunk, got a taxi home and her friend came and picked her up early the next morning for her car and things and she came back home and went to bed. Like I say the story didn't ring true so I did some digging.

We have CCTV at home due to a previous home invasion and it shows her leaving one afternoon and not coming back till dinner the next day. No evidence of a taxi dropping her off and no evidence of the friend the next morning coming to collect her. She is also wearing the same clothes on both days (if she had come home her clothes would have still been stuck at her friends). Also when I came home she had washed the (very short) dress and the underwear she wore that night on its own and left it in the machine as she fell asleep and forgot about it, I feel it was her intention to get it washed, dried and put away before I came back.

She has been a bit distant lately so I dug some more and basically looked at her FB and phone. Found some partially deleted messages from a lad asking if he could see her at the weekend and what we doing today. I also found a message declaring his undying love for her. She refers to him as "baby" and "sweetheart" in her replies.

Anyway I confronted her about this and she told me she had told him she was happily married and to leave her alone and that the CCTV must be wrong. I have had the usual "you are never there for me speech." I work hard to provide us with a nice house and nice lifestyle I say. She also brings up the fact I cheated on her after we had been together a month 6 years ago and that she has had to let that go. I have never been with or would want to be with anyone since that point and certainly would never forsake my marriage vows.

The initial shock has calmed down but now I am trying to figure out where we go from here. I have adopted the 180 plan as a bit of a self preservation strategy in the meantime but not really sure where to take it from here.

She doesn't know as yet as to the level of my knowledge but basically I have texts going back years between the two of them. Always very pushy from his side and very attention seeking from my wife but I haven't seen anything sexual between them.

Do I challenge her with the further evidence or continue on my 180?

Thanks for reading.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

People in a long term affair often don't talk about heir exploits like newly minted cheaters often do. They act like married people. Most married people don't text about the great sex they had last night all the time.

You need to get var's up and running. It was a huge mistake to confront her with out evidence. Now she will definitely avoid your cctv.

If she is deleting texts you may be able to recover them depending on her phone. Sex is likely but you already know she will lie to your face. 

Do you have kids? 

Has your sex life ever changed with her fairly quickly?


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## whichway (Nov 26, 2014)

We don't have kids at present so thats a blessing.

Sex is always initiated by me and she is very much a passenger in the process.

Have already ordered a VAR.

Knew I shouldn't have confronted but got drunk and saw a load more messages between them. She was telling him she was out with friends for a drink "to think things through" when we were actually out together for and meal and drinks then to my brothers house together.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Cheaters love to talk in their cars. Get heavy duty velcro and stick it under the drivers seat. Test the var first to make sure it works and makes no warning sounds. The sony modls around 50-60 dollars work great.

Sounds like he's trying to get her to leave you?

Who is the guy, someone you know?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to get the two books linked to in my signature. If you want to download them you can do that at amazon.com. MMSLP is just for you. NOT JUST FRIENDS is for you both.

What has she admitted to? What are your deal breakers?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

You betrayed her and now you're pissed she is returning the favor. That's interesting.

Well, I think I'd just call her on it and see if she wants to remain a couple. Just that simple. On a case like this I see no reason to drag it out or do some investigation. 

Just cut through the drama and make choices.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

thatbpguy said:


> You betrayed her and now you're pissed she is returning the favor. That's interesting.


 A successfully rehabilitated drug addict will still be quite pissed and upset about being attacked and robbed by a drug addict looking for money.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> You betrayed her and now you're pissed she is returning the favor. That's interesting.
> 
> Well, I think I'd just call her on it and see if she wants to remain a couple. Just that simple. On a case like this I see no reason to drag it out or do some investigation.
> 
> Just cut through the drama and make choices.


I took his episode as being before they were exclusive.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Is "you are never there for me" some kind of cheater's code for "it is impossible for me to get enough attention, so I cheat"?


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Is the other guy married ?


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## whichway (Nov 26, 2014)

I would agree he is trying to persuade her to leave me but she isn’t so sure but isn’t rebuffing the attention either.

The guy is a long term “friend” that I have met once when we very first got together. We instantly took a dislike for each other and now I know why as he had clearly been trying to get in her pants long before myself and my wife met. In fact he got pissed that very night we met after he left my wife’s house and drove his car into a bridge. He ran home on a broken leg so the cops couldn’t catch up with him.

She has admitted to speaking to him behind my back and him telling her he loves her. She has told me she has not physically cheated and its because I am always watching the game when I’m at home or I’m working so don’t pay her enough attention and he does. She had him as a womans name in her phone and they weren't friends on facebook but used the messenger app as a means of contact.

Yes I did cheat. We had been dating on and off for 3 weeks but we both had other people still in our lives, both being single. I knew that my wife was the one I wanted to be with and nobody else so I chose to tell her about my infidelity and be honest, I could have kept it secret and my now wife would have never found out, I also deleted this woman from facebook etc and purposely gave my wife her number in case I ever contacted her again. This was 6, nearly 7 years ago now and I am now a married man and feels that means something. I have supported my wife through very difficult times including emotionally and financially when we first met as she was living in her parents converted garage and bailiffs at the door on a regular basis. She also had a long period of unemployment which I helped her through, I did this because I love her and wanted to look after her. That fear is always in me that it could happen again so I work hard to make sure we have savings should the worst happen and I can provide for my wife like a good man should. This hard work is now being spun back in my face. We have had over 4 weeks holidays this year including a cruise round the med and trips to Florida etc. I also make a concerted effort to ask what she would like to do and always try to say yes.

The other guy is not married, seems to be an eternal singleton. He works in heavy construction and is always moving around the country on different jobs.

Also forgot to mention I rung this guy and told him I knew what he was up to. He accused me of being "crazy"


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> I took his episode as being before they were exclusive.


I took it to mean they had been living together for a month. If I misunderstood, then I am wrong. Dang, all these years and my first mistake.


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## whichway (Nov 26, 2014)

No we had literally only just started dating. Met in the November and my infidelity was the December - how I felt afterwards made me realize how much I wanted my wife to be the only woman for me.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I agree with Chap. They are acting like a married couple. Not even an affair at this point its a full fledged double life.

Is the var even necessary at this point? Staying out all night, returning in the same clothes than trying to wash the undies?

That would be all the proof I needed.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

whichway said:


> No we had literally only just started dating. Met in the November and my infidelity was the December - how I felt afterwards made me realize how much I wanted my wife to be the only woman for me.


What you describe is not infidelity.

You guys just started dated. She's using that as an excuse for her long term secret marriage with this loser.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

Gather your evidence and do the 180 hard


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## whichway (Nov 26, 2014)

I'm starting to worry that my confronting her has forced her hand.

If she leaves she will lose face with her family and friends I've seen messages to them from my wife saying how "I'm crazy and paranoid" and can't cope when she has a night out and how "I think she is having an affair"

If she then shacks up with this guy it shows her to be a liar. Also I am very lucky to be finacially very secure and can provide a good life for her. The difference between me and him is the fact that he is in shape and a builder type. I have a desk job and work long hours and have neglected my physical shape for some time - something I have realized after the 180 and I have started running and working out, setting myself to be able to run 5k by Jan and a 10k by April.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

whichway said:


> I'm starting to worry that my confronting her has forced her hand.
> 
> If she leaves she will lose face with her family and friends I've seen messages to them from my wife saying how "I'm crazy and paranoid" and can't cope when she has a night out and how "I think she is having an affair"
> 
> If she then shacks up with this guy it shows her to be a liar. Also I am very lucky to be finacially very secure and can provide a good life for her. The difference between me and him is the fact that he is in shape and a builder type. I have a desk job and work long hours and have neglected my physical shape for some time - something I have realized after the 180 and I have started running and working out, setting myself to be able to run 5k by Jan and a 10k by April.


Don't worry about the OM, he could be anybody, people don't have affairs to find someone "better" and most people affair down.

NEVER think you are competing with an AP, its the fantasy of the A itself you are up against. The AP is someone at the right place at the right time. You could be better than him across the board at everything and that still wouldn't matter. 


"Tough Love" is the only thing that works, being nice and sympathetic just makes things worse and makes you an enabler. Think of the A like a drug addiction because it basically is.


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## whichway (Nov 26, 2014)

I've already noticed this.

I've had messages today like "I need you to believe I haven't cheated on you"

I've stayed strong and ignored. Off home for a run later, if she is in when I get back she can come and find me after to discuss.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

whichway said:


> No we had literally only just started dating. Met in the November and my infidelity was the December - how I felt afterwards made me realize how much I wanted my wife to be the only woman for me.


This doesn't sound like infidelity to me unless the two of you had decide not to date other people.

She spent the weekend with him, they had sex. Probably have many times. She doesn't sound remorseful at all. 

What is your deal breaker?


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## whichway (Nov 26, 2014)

My deal breaker will be if I don't get the truth direct from her.

I have specific examples of when and wear they have been talking. I feel like just asking her some stuff and seeing if she is open and honest.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Where to go from here*



whichway said:


> I've already noticed this.
> 
> I've had messages today like "I need you to believe I haven't cheated on you"
> 
> I've stayed strong and ignored. Off home for a run later, if she is in when I get back she can come and find me after to discuss.


Tell her to prove it to you. Put the burden on her to save the marriage. Since you don't have any kids your default position should be divorce unless she can convince you otherwise.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Tell her she spent the weekend with him and you have proof of her lying. Do not tell her how you know what you know under any circumstances . Tell her family she's cheating and who it's with and how long it's been going on. She needs to know you can and will love on. Stay strong, begging and pleading is marriage suicide.


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## whichway (Nov 26, 2014)

The million dollar question is how to I get her to do that?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Where to go from here*



whichway said:


> The million dollar question is how to I get her to do that?


You don't. She has to want to. If she truly cares about you and the marriage she will find a way or come clean and beg for forgiveness. You can only control yourself. You can only state your position and what your boundaries are. You can only tell her what your expectations of her are and what you'll do if she doesn't meet them.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Serve her D papers is one way.

Tell her what you know in vague terms and tell her to come clean or its over.


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## whichway (Nov 26, 2014)

Have already spoken to an attorney and understand my position. He is ready to move if we need to. I would prefer the vague terms approach and see how honest she is happy to be as that will let me know how willing she is to save the marriage.

All this has made me realize how passive I have been in trying to keep her happy. I will show her that this will change and she can stop taking the piss and doing what she wants.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Where to go from here*



whichway said:


> Have already spoken to an attorney and understand my position. He is ready to move if we need to. I would prefer the vague terms approach and see how honest she is happy to be as that will let me know how willing she is to save the marriage.
> 
> All this has made me realize how passive I have been in trying to keep her happy. I will show her that this will change and she can stop taking the piss and doing what she wants.


It's not about keeping her happy. It's about you being a strong male presence. Others can advise you more but you should read the book Married Man's Sex Life Primer. Hint - it's not about sex.


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## shellgames (Sep 2, 2014)

Watch out for trickle truth, just enough to think there is hope but surrounded in continued lies.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Stop confronting and accusing until you have some concrete proof. I wouldnt even bring it up again until you do.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

whichway,

You already have enough evidence to know she's been having a PA. There's little doubt about that. You would be naive to assume otherwise.

Understand that most cheaters won't admit to more than anything you can prove. I don't blame you if you feel you need a smoking gun, but you certainly don't have to have one to justify a D with what you already have.

In regards to your supposed "cheating" versus hers. There's no comparison. What you did was before you were married, and she agreed to marry you after you told her. She broke her wedding vows. This is all on her.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I would stay quiet until the var's were in place for just a few days. DO not rush life changing decisions.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

There are practical reasons for your wife to be with you: Great lifestyle, you kept her out of jail etc. There are no practical reasons for you to be with her (kids, etc.). 

The reason for you to be with her is emotional and she is giving her emotions (at least) to another man.

Your wife seems to be a very poor investment. You need to keep investigating for your piece of mind. However, no matter what you ultimately find cut your losses now before you have kids.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Look. Pictures don't lie so how in the hell can your CCTV be wrong? Her telling you that it's wrong is just really stupid.

If it's me, I lay it out on the table. I let her know that what she said and what the CCTV shows is real different and now she can either start telling the truth or she's in for a real rough ride and do it in a way that she knows that she's not in any position to give any more gift wrapped lies to you any more. 

You have the proof and now what you do with it and how you proceed is another matter


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Your wife lives her life as if she is still single. She stays overnight drunken and with friends? No woman will wear the same outfit in two days. She washes them when she gets home. She is simply cleaning up the evidence. I am a woman.

She is cheating. She is keeping you as you are her meal ticket. Go through the divorce. You deserve a better life and a better wife.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

If you have XX pieces of evidence,, when you discuss it you tell her, I know this, this and this,, and you keep some of what you know to yourself. She doesn't know what you know and what you don't. Her 'contrite confession' should include the evidence you held back. If it doesn't, you know she's fulla merde.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

whichway said:


> No we had literally only just started dating. Met in the November and my infidelity was the December - how I felt afterwards made me realize how much I wanted my wife to be the only woman for me.


That is not cheating or infidelity. That is what we call dating. In this case, just a few weeks fresh. This was not a unsaid commitment after 2-3 weeks. Your W answer to her current activity as a result of your dating(cheating) does not wash.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

whichway said:


> I've already noticed this.
> 
> I've had messages today like "I need you to believe I haven't cheated on you" *Because you obviously have found something on the CCTV and washing of the underwear.*
> 
> I've stayed strong and ignored. Off home for a run later, if she is in when I get back she can come and find me after to discuss. *No, go to your W and ask why you need to believe she has not cheated. All indications of the past weekends activity lean towards a certain indiscretion. Your W will need to prove otherwise. *


The CCTV was wrong? That is rich.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

whichway said:


> The million dollar question is how to I get her to do that?


Easy, review the CCTV until she gets that her story does not follow what the CCTV is showing. Your W has stated the CCTV is wrong. How can a non-thinking item simply recording be wrong. We know how human beings can be wrong...and less than honorable at time.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

whichway said:


> Anyway I confronted her about this and she told me she had told him she was happily married and to leave her alone *and that the CCTV must be wrong.*


lol

Oh course it was wrong OP. Trust her. Be fair. Which are you going to believe? Her, or your own eyes.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

What's your end game?

If you want to divorce her for being a cheat, then do it.

You already know she screwed that other guy.

If you want her to admit to things, then stop telegraphing your next move. No contact with OM, for example. All that does is clue her into the need to delete files and get others to cover for her.

You know she already has a "ho's before bro'"s girlfriend that will act as an alibi.

If your goal is to get her to admit to what she is doing then you have to step up your evidence gathering and then confront again.

But if that is your goal, stop talking about it with her or anyone else.

But even then, if she does admit, are you wanting to reconcile or divorce?

If it were me, I'd spare myself more agony and drama and head toward divorce.

Wasting time on a cheater is just that, wasted time.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Get tested for STD's immediately.
Have your lawyer serve her immediately as well.
She is playing you for a total fool.
She has no respect for you whatsoever.

If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

does she have an iPhone by any chance?


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## OhForSureMan (Nov 3, 2014)

whichway said:


> Anyway I confronted her about this and she told me she had told him she was happily married and to leave her alone and that *the CCTV must be wrong.*


There is your answer. This is a truly absurd lie without some sort of underlying explanation, so its pretty clear she thinks your a dope about this.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

NO KIDS.....RUN LIKE THE WIND!!!!

Sorry, this is a long term affair and you've been duped. 

180 Divorce.


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## whichway (Nov 26, 2014)

Wow thanks all for the replies. Continued my 180 and went out with some buddies last night.

The messages have continued from her end with statements like "I honestly haven't cheated on you"

I'm ignoring and carrying on with my life for the time being and focussing on me.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

whichway said:


> Wow thanks all for the replies. Continued my 180 and went out with some buddies last night.
> 
> The messages have continued from her end with statements like "I honestly haven't cheated on you"
> 
> I'm ignoring and carrying on with my life for the time being and focussing on me.


That's a great start 

Just make sure of what she's doing, the guys on here have posted some stuff on what to do to keep surveillance on, you need to do this no matter how distasteful it seems
VAR etc


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## Meli33 (Oct 16, 2014)

How often do you go away for work? 

If you go away quite often, then you need to hire a Private Investigator. Maybe just hire one anyway......


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## whichway (Nov 26, 2014)

Very rarely do I do away now this was somewhat of a one off. I come home late two nights a week due to work commitments but am usually in around 8-8:30 but have found no evidence that she has been staying out those nights.

Don't think I need to hire a PI I've got the evidence myself.

Used an iphone recovery software on her iTunes back ups and it has found very little which makes me think the majority of communication is done via FB.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

And you haven't got the password?

key logger perhaps needed then


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## whichway (Nov 26, 2014)

G.J. said:


> And you haven't got the password?
> 
> key logger perhaps needed then


Already done :smthumbup:


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## shellgames (Sep 2, 2014)

They will communicate with twitter, fb or ig messages. Whatsapp or email. Not if but when it goes underground.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

whichway said:


> Wow thanks all for the replies. Continued my 180 and went out with some buddies last night.
> 
> The messages have continued from her end with statements like "I honestly haven't cheated on you"
> 
> I'm ignoring and carrying on with my life for the time being and focussing on me.


I reread your first post. You stated that you did not see any sexual stuff in the text messages. Just that OM loved her and calling each other sweety and crap like that. Twice your W said she has not cheated. What is your W definition of cheating? Some believe cheating is defined as physical. We know here at TAM that cheating is defined as emotional and physical. Sometimes both occur. With that said and your W insisting she did not cheat(probably in the physical sense in her mind) what does she think the FB messaging that has been going constitutes? What exactly in her mind was she not doing?


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## whichway (Nov 26, 2014)

Sorry I was talking in the physical sense, there is no doubting the affair is emotional as the bare minimum I know that.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

whichway said:


> Sorry I was talking in the physical sense, there is no doubting the affair is emotional as the bare minimum I know that.


Yes, at a minimum a EA. I'm thinking your W does not see it as an affair. In her mind a PA is cheating. Talking, confiding and hiding conversation to her is not an affair. Hence she keeps declaring she did not cheat. I would think a pointed question of how your W believes she did not cheat and what is her definition of cheating entails. She appears to be totally in the dark about it or is a great performer in playing innocently just good friends.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

She could have a completely different AP.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Unfortunately it sounds like the affair is Physical. Your smoking guns is the fact she lied about coming home, and then proceeded to wash her underwear etc. Make no mistake she was washing out his dripping semen. Sorry to say this.

As for her remarks the camera's are probably wrong regarding her whereabouts, what would you say to a trusted friend who told you this story. You would call bull.shi..t on it.

It really does sound like she is only with you cuase you provide a comfortable life for her.

Keep doing the 180 and install VAR first chance you get. Once you have her dead to rights with proof file and show her no mercy on this deal.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

WhichWay


Here is the way

She has replaced you with another man and now you are to take actions that will only benefit you. You cannot trust your emotional health and the other factors of your life with a woman that, at best, has put you in the number 3 spot in her life. You must take actions to build yourself up because she is not and is in fact tearing you down by her own free will choices.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

michzz said:


> What's your end game?
> 
> If you want to divorce her for being a cheat, then do it.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

whichway,

This is by far the best advice you've received to date.

You know your WW has cheated on you, at least emotionally and probably physically. You know she's lied to you and continues to lie.

You have no children. You are young. You can find someone better, someone who can be trusted.

Why would you waste any more time on your WW?

Seriously, why would you do that?


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