# I Don't Know What to do Next



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

We have been married for 24 years and it's been a very unhappy 24 years for me. It seems we never were in love from the very beginning. There were some unsettling things about her that I chose to ignore but married her anyway. Her parents always pushed me away telling me I wasn't "rich" enough for their daughter. Add to that my career which has always been in crisis involving moving across country and many layoffs. The cross country move was due to my wife telling my bosses wife that he was cheating at a Christmas Party. I immediately lost my job the next day. Many people have told me I'm in this mess because I didn't divorce her right there and then. That showed me that she really doesn't care if we made it or not. Losing my job that time very nearly finished us financially. Even now 15 years later we aren't totally recovered. I've let this really sour the way I feel about her and can't trust her. I won't let her go to company functions with me. 

By the grace of God, I've been able to find something better each time I've lost a job. She claims to be a Christian but swears like a drunken sailor whenever she gets home from work. We aren't compatible anymore and not attracted to each other anymore. I find myself losing hope. 

I went to a well known "Men's Right's" divorce attorney before and he told me that he would not represent me because I would be so financially ruined if I got a divorce, he did not want to be responsible.

I have read His Needs, Her Needs and found it to be a waste of time. The book is really for people who want to be together again, not for us. I wish that was at least some evidence that she wants to be a couple again but there's nothing. I really do not see myself with her much longer although I wish there was something that I could do to make us a normal couple. I think, though, it was really never meant to be and I made a big mistake in the beginning to marry her.


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

You have to decide if its worth being unhappy, and staying with her or just cut the cord and divorce. 

I'm surprised the lawyer said that. If that was the case he would be turning down clients all the time. 

What would she be entitled to if divorced?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Omar174 (Mar 12, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> We have been married for 24 years and it's been a very unhappy 24 years for me. It seems we never were in love from the very beginning. There were some unsettling things about her that I chose to ignore but married her anyway. Her parents always pushed me away telling me I wasn't "rich" enough for their daughter. Add to that my career which has always been in crisis involving moving across country and many layoffs. The cross country move was due to my wife telling my bosses wife that he was cheating at a Christmas Party. I immediately lost my job the next day. Many people have told me I'm in this mess because I didn't divorce her right there and then. That showed me that she really doesn't care if we made it or not. Losing my job that time very nearly finished us financially. Even now 15 years later we aren't totally recovered. I've let this really sour the way I feel about her and can't trust her. I won't let her go to company functions with me.
> 
> By the grace of God, I've been able to find something better each time I've lost a job. She claims to be a Christian but swears like a drunken sailor whenever she gets home from work. We aren't compatible anymore and not attracted to each other anymore. I find myself losing hope.
> 
> ...


You've wasted 24 years. Why the heck would you waste one more day? Run, now. Find another lawyer.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I guess the new kids on the block don't get many responses. I was really hoping for more ideas on how I could possibly save this situation or if you think it's too far gone.


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## lancaster (Dec 2, 2013)

jb02157 said:


> I guess the new kids on the block don't get many responses. I was really hoping for more ideas on how I could possibly save this situation or if you think it's too far gone.


Firstly stop being overly dramatic. Folks have lives outside of TAM give them time and they will respond. 

You, like I, will have to decide what kind of future you want. Why not write an inventory of your relationship? The good and the not so good points. This sounds rather elementary, but listing things on paper can really help you see the pros and cons of your relationship. 

Have you, or would you consider marriage counseling? If not why not? My wife and I will be beginning MC soon, I am a little apprehensive about it, but I think it may have some value. 

Take care and I am sure people with more experience than I will reply to your thread. Just give them some time.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Our marriage counseling experience was interesting. The counselor, a woman, went right after me. She said I notice that you have a Greek last name. Greeks are noted for their barbaric treatment of women. Right then I said, listen I don't think your prejudicial behavior is going to do either one of us any good and I walked out. Marriage Counseling is normally a joke and this was no exception.

I do like very much your suggestion of an inventory and I plan to do this over the weekend. 

I guess I'll have to work on my dramatic behavior to (...wink)


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## lancaster (Dec 2, 2013)

Sounds like a horrid counselor. Would you and your wife consider a different counselor? I hope MC is not normally a joke as I will be starting it soon:scratchhead:. 

Would your wife be willing to do an inventory? Or is it something you would prefer to keep to yourself. Either way will probably be useful to you. Perhaps you both could discuss what you have written. If so make sure you do the inventories in different locations so you are unable to influence one another. The biggest thing about an inventory is being honest in them.

Well all the best, I better get back to work. It is chilly here in North Dakota.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

You say its been an unhappy for 24 years. You say it was probably a mistake from the beginning. Why really do you want to continue it? I know the fear myself letting go of a long term marriage, and the unknown, but like everyone tells me, we wont know what is out there if we stay where we are. 

Listen to that inner voice when you just don't know what to do. Rarely do we lie to ourselves, we just don't listen to ourselves as we should. 
Being honest w yourself, is the first step to fixing any problem. 

~ sammy


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

sammy3 said:


> You say its been unhappy for 24 years. You say it was probably a mistake from the beginning. Why really do you want to continue it? I know the fear myself letting go of a long term marriage, and the unknown, but like everyone tells me, we wont know what is out there if we stay where we are.
> 
> Listen to that inner voice when you just don't know what to do. Rarely do we lie to ourselves, we just don't listen to ourselves as we should.
> Being honest w yourself, is the first step to fixing any problem.
> ...


Thanks for your reply Sammy, At risk of getting smacked in the face by every female on here, I'll tell why I'm still in this marriage. It's because how unfair divorce is to men. Men basically get robbed in a divorce. I've spent the last 15 years trying to get us out of debt and we were finally able to buy a house not long ago. We have three kids and lived at a very low income after she got me fired. I was told over and over again if I got divorced I would not be able to see the kids unless I was able to afford a house for her (doesn't work, sits around all day doing nothing) and the kids and a dwelling for me that had separate bedrooms for EACH of them. That's like telling me to cure the common cold. She gets me fired and I can't divorce her unless I come up with 100's of thousands of dollars??? Now that the kids are getting to be college age, any money I could put toward getting divorced has to go toward tuition. It's a vicious cycle, divorced laws have ruined my life. Women collect a free home while men get stuck paying for two homes before they can see their kids. That's really fair.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Your wife made you lose your job, your lawyer won't take your case, _His Needs, Her Needs_ doesn't have the right advice, your wife's a bad person because she swears . . . 

Start taking responsibility for your life instead of claiming to be helpless in every situation and holding lifelong passive-aggressive grudges. Start by joining a gym. Once you get a bit of confidence, face some of the other things and make positive changes. 

I mean, for goodness sake. There are people in wars and who have lifelong illnesses who take more responsibility for their lives without as much whining. That sounds harsh, I know, but seriously, dude.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

MSP said:


> Your wife made you lose your job, your lawyer won't take your case, _His Needs, Her Needs_ doesn't have the right advice, your wife's a bad person because she swears . . .
> 
> .


So I had control of all of this?? I'll tell you what I did have control of. I got jobs again where others in the same industry stopped trying. Do I have control of the stupid things that come out of my wife's mouth? 

Come here for some support and you get your head chewed off. Time to look at other sites with reasonable people.


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## Omar174 (Mar 12, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> Thanks for your reply Sammy, At risk of getting smacked in the face by every female on here, I'll tell why I'm still in this marriage. It's because how unfair divorce is to men. Men basically get robbed in a divorce. I've spent the last 15 years trying to get us out of debt and we were finally able to buy a house not long ago. We have three kids and lived at a very low income after she got me fired. I was told over and over again if I got divorced I would not be able to see the kids unless I was able to afford a house for her (doesn't work, sits around all day doing nothing) and the kids and a dwelling for me that had separate bedrooms for EACH of them. That's like telling me to cure the common cold. She gets me fired and I can't divorce her unless I come up with 100's of thousands of dollars??? Now that the kids are getting to be college age, any money I could put toward getting divorced has to go toward tuition. It's a vicious cycle, divorced laws have ruined my life. Women collect a free home while men get stuck paying for two homes before they can see their kids. That's really fair.


Go talk to a good lawyer. You may not get shafted as bad as you think. Just remember that in some cases divorce is expensive but worth every penny. 

After your kids are over 18, you have no LEGAL obligation, just help them (individually/no wife involvement) as much as you can. As far as seeing them goes (before they turn 18), IT IS NOT ENTIRELY UP TO HER. You will have rights as a father. 

I don't think a judge will a$$ rape you financially just so your wife can sit on her butt and not work.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Omar174 said:


> Go talk to a good lawyer. You may not get shafted as bad as you think. Just remember that in some cases divorce is expensive but worth every penny.
> 
> Besides, after your kids are over 18, you have no LEGAL obligation, just help them (individually/no wife involvement) as much as you can.
> 
> I don't think a judge will a$$ rape you financially just so your wife can sit on her butt and not work.


Whether or not I get shafted it's really the issue. What I have a problem with is the extraordinary means I have to go through to stay in my kids lives. It's not really up to the judge, it's the laws that are a problem. I should be able to see my kids without having to provide housing for everyone. If it's beyond my means...it's beyond my means.


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## Omar174 (Mar 12, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> Whether or not I get shafted it's really the issue. *What I have a problem with is the extraordinary means I have to go through to stay in my kids lives. It's not really up to the judge, it's the laws that are a problem.* I should be able to see my kids without having to provide housing for everyone. If it's beyond my means...it's beyond my means.


It is what it is my friend. Not saying it's going to be a simple deal. I think that as long as you aren't some psycho path with a criminal record, you'll see your kids. 

Money wise, as far as I know, there is a formula that is used for calculating financial obligations. Just because your wife WANTS to sit on her a$$ and milk you dry, doesn't mean she'll get to.

Look, you come off as being miserable. That may not change after divorce, but at least your wife won't be there. Just saying. And I'll reiterate again, go talk to a good lawyer, not the schmuck you spoke to before.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

jb02157 said:


> I went to a well known "Men's Right's" divorce attorney before and he told me that he would not represent me because I would be so financially ruined if I got a divorce, he did not want to be responsible.


Do you know how many people are financially wiped out by divorce due to attorney's fees?

Makes no sense that an attorney would say such a thing. They became divorce attorneys knowing divorce may cost their clients everything.

It would be like the guy in the ice cream store saying he won't sell you ice cream because you will get fat or a cigarette manufacturer refusing to sell you cigarettes because you could get cancer.

If the guy is so ethical why not take your case for free or at a hefty discount or for a flat fee?

There's something missing here.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

jb02157 said:


> It's because how unfair divorce is to men. Men basically get robbed in a divorce.


Oftentimes it's the guys who take the beating. Especially if it's the hardworking husband/father with the stay at home mom who hasn't worked in 20 years. But not always. Sometimes the husband is a deadbeat and the wife ends up paying support to him. The assets get split roughly 50/50 in most states, that's the law, and it's fair- what's not fair about splitting everything in half- and not much is going to change there regardless of the situation. 



jb02157 said:


> I was told over and over again if I got divorced I would not be able to see the kids unless I was able to afford a house for her


You may have been told that but that doesn't mean it's true. Your wife doesn't make the rules. You may have to continue to pay for the home you're all currently living in, that may not change, however you'll now have to find alternate housing for yourself. 



jb02157 said:


> (doesn't work, sits around all day doing nothing)


Partially your fault for enabling her to do nothing. Since she hasn't worked, you're almost definitely going to be on the hook for support.



jb02157 said:


> She gets me fired


Just stop. If you got fired that's on you, not her. Time for some self accountability here.



jb02157 said:


> Women collect a free home while men get stuck paying for two homes before they can see their kids. That's really fair.


True, the husbands usually have to support two households although you don't necessarily need a house for yourself. At least for the short term you can get by with bunking at a relative's house or a small apartment. 

Think about it.. you're supporting your children while married, that obligation doesn't evaporate just because things fell apart between you and the wife. And it's not forever.

Also nonpayment of support doesn't prohibit you from seeing your kids, unless of course you're in jail.



jb02157 said:


> I should be able to see my kids without having to provide housing for everyone. If it's beyond my means...it's beyond my means.


You have the legal obligation to support your children and provide them with a roof over their head. It's not beyond your means now, so it naturally follows that it won't be beyond your means after you divorce unless you experience a significant income loss that is beyond your control in which case the courts may cut you a break but then what happens to your kids? 

Make it about them, not about you. It's not their fault things went to pieces. They've got enough of a shakeup in their lives as it is.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

You say your wife got you fired 15 years ago...15 years is a long time to hold a grudge.

You say she pretends to be a Christian but cusses like a sailor. Ummm is this new? My guess is she always did this and you simply turned deaf to it because you used to love her.

You say she sits on her butt all day and does nothing. Tell her to get a job. List some goals you both have, vacations, tuition payments, wedding for your kids, tell her she needs to bring in an income so these goals become attainable.

You sound very angry and bitter about where you are in your life right now. I think a lot of people go through this and the hardest part of it is, you are responsible for where you are.

You have to make a decision and focus on that full throttle. Divorce, or work it out.

I don't have a lot of hope for MC except to help couples learn to communicate better, to help them wade through the issues together. MC doesn't solve the problems, it helps you identify them. Lots of time people go into MC and say "he does this or doesn't do that..." Thinking the Therapist has some magic phrase to make him do or not do it. That's not how it works. 

I suggest you go to individual counseling with a male therapist. I think you will find your answers and your path that way, and not through this marriage forum.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> You say your wife got you fired 15 years ago...15 years is a long time to hold a grudge.
> 
> You say she pretends to be a Christian but cusses like a sailor. Ummm is this new? My guess is she always did this and you simply turned deaf to it because you used to love her.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your post and I do think you're right but I disagree that I'm entirely at fault for everything that happened. But be that as it may, the thing is that there's really not much left to make a marriage out of. I hate to give up and am horrified to have to go through a divorce like so many other I know and have nothing at the end of the day. I know a lot of you think it's not that bad but I seen it happen to some of my closest friends and it absolutely ruined them, not only financially but emotionally as well.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

jb02157 said:


> Thank you for your post and I do think you're right but I disagree that I'm entirely at fault for everything that happened.


I don't think that's what Anon means. And it's not what I meant, either, in my post that got you so offended earlier. 

Here is what I think we are both getting at: You have more control than you think you do. Once you realize that, you will also see steps to take that you might not even see yet. I well know the feeling of being caught between a rock and a hard place. But, at the least, you can often control your thoughts. And your thoughts create your feelings.


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## lost soul (May 20, 2009)

do you want to be with your wife ?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Hi jb02157,

Of course you're not at fault for everything, assignment of fault is not the issue.

Anon Pink is talking about responsibility, you are responsible for what happens to you. You can't control your wife (and nor should you), you do however control yourself!

So far you have chosen to remain in a miserable relationship with your wife. You have also chosen so far not to divorce your wife and move on or attempt to reconcile with her and try to rebuild your relationship.

Therefore where you are now and the situation you are in, is of your own choosing and responsibility, it is not someone's fault.

If you're not happy about your situation apply some resolve and do something about it, otherwise enjoy the misery that your choose to wear, since the only person keeping yourself there is you.

Even though it's an old cliche it's worth repeating, it's never too late.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't think that JB is coming back.

He seems to have a very distorted view of what will happen in a divorce.


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## muppet (Mar 4, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> Thank you for your post and I do think you're right but I disagree that I'm entirely at fault for everything that happened. But be that as it may, the thing is that there's really not much left to make a marriage out of. I hate to give up and am horrified to have to go through a divorce like so many other I know and have nothing at the end of the day. I know a lot of you think it's not that bad but I seen it happen to some of my closest friends and it absolutely ruined them, not only financially but emotionally as well.


 I think that only happens with how you deal with it, you can let it ruined you or you can use it as a learning curb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

He'll come back and update. He wrote on another thread:



> I live in the same sort of world you do. My wife doesn't want sex at all. I've even got to the point of not even asking anymore because I know what the answer will be. She has no intesrests at all and it's hard to figure out how to plan anything with her because she hates everything. I know everyone keeps saying it's depression but that's only a BS excuse. I would stop planning moving to a nicer home and start planning your exit strategy. It's doesn't look like you are headed anywhere positive in your marriage. It will be tough because you suspect she mistreats your kids. That's why I didn't leave way earlier.


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