# is it my fault



## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

hi all, i wasnt sure where to post this. so i hope this is the best forum.

i am going to tell you the whole story from beginning to present. i do not want a divorce. i love my wife, but things keep happening and i need to hear if i am the jerk or not. she may join the conversation later im not sure. but i know she has a side to this story as well.


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

i met my wife 17 years ago when i was dating her roommate at the time. I went to a party they were having at thief apartment. I feel in love the first time i saw her,but never though she would be digging me, she was and is still out of my league. I was still dating her roommate until she went to Arizona for 3 weeks. That's when pat (my wife) and i began our journey. Im not sure how pat told the roommate when she got back. All i know is i was 19 and stupid as most 19 yo are and never talked to the girl again. I am going to be referring to me being stupid a few times during this.
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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

so pat and i were having a great time in the beginning of our relationship. We did all the things young couples do when dating. But after almost a year we began to bicker and argue about whatever. So i am 20 at this point. I was planning to break up with her. So again being young and dumb i slept with her best friend. I selfishly didn't care at the time because i was outta there so i thought. About two weeks after i slept with the best friend I made arrangements with a buddy of mine to move my stuff out of the apartment. 


This next bit is where it starts to get sticky. So my buddy is coming with his truck on this Saturday so that Friday i went out with some friends of mine and pat went with hers. So at almost last call myself and my friends met up with pat and her friends at a bar. Remember Im moving out right. So pat comes up to me at last call and says she has to talk to me. I was like ok i have to talk to u to. I let her go first and that's when she told me she was pregnant. I didn't know what to say. Was speechless. I knew i had to do the right thing and be responsible as a parent now. And i couldn't tell her i slept with her best friend. So i decided to keep it a secret. I knew if i said anything about it, pat would have walked out. That news changed my life and how i felt about pat. if i told pat what had happened our first daughter would have been the one that suffered..
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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

so yeah i called off my moving buddy. I told my parents and then asked pat to marry me. So we were married in September of 96. We didn't have a lot of money but our parents helped a lot. I took on two jobs while pat stayed home with the baby. I didn't mind working the two jobs in the beginning. Pat and i were the best of friends. She was honestly my best friend. We did everything together for about 6 years. And then with my job and her job another baby. We all of a sudden forgot how to communicate. Neither of us would listen to the other side and we became emotionally disconnected. I was now finding things to stay late at work or taking on more sidejobs. I started going to happy hour alot. Which is where i met my second mistake. I met this female bar tender who listened to me and at that time just paying attention to me. Although this bartender and i never slept together we became friends. She was filling a void in my marriage. At the time it seemed ok but in hindsight i know it was wrong and i regret ever befriending this girl. So this friendship lasted about 3 months until my wife busted me. Served me with divorce papers and everything. I ran home and begged her to take me back. That very night i called the bartender and told her i couldn't talk to her anymore. And i never spoke to her again. I saw the pain on pats face. And to know that i caused that pain was terrible on top of the first screw up secret Im keeping.i said i would never do that again and i have done nothing like that since. A piece of a** os not worth it. Besides pat is extremely hot. 

So all that happened in 2002 and i knew pat never got over it which i totally understand. So now its 2009. Pat is working part time now and Im still working 2 sometimes 3 jobs. Pat meets a new friend who is a bitter divorcee. She starts hanging out with her alot. So in Feb of 09 i looked at pats cell phone and was completely engulfed with rage. I couldn't believe what is was seeing. Karma is for real every one. I confront her about it and she makes up a whole story.
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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Dude, what did you expect! You never took your marriage seriously. You only married her to do "the right thing". You've cheated on her several times; thus, making you a serial cheater. NOW, your mad because she was doing something inappropriate?

This relationship is way too toxic and you haven't even finished writing your story!


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

She was out of your league so you cheat on her.....

I have a hard time following this.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Here's a thought, hurtin -- write out your story on notepad or Word, and then EDIT IT HEAVILY, and then post it here.

This is way more detail than I need, although of course you will tell your story in the way you see fit.


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

her story made no sense. So i started my own private private eye service. I watched her like a hawk for well i still do. I have caught her numerous times over the last 3 years trying to set up dates or meet up with other guys. In 09 when we first started this never ending journey i have to say some of what she told me got me pretty hot. And we were having a moments of honesty, discussing stuff we never talked about and then she asked me if anything had ever happened with her best friend in 95, and like an idiot i told her about it. Can u see the lead balloon too. Needless to say that didn't go good at all. Pat skipped the tracks and has been making me pay the price ever since. She has stayed in touch with some of these guys by using friends phones or deleting her history getting prepaid phones. U name it and she's tried it. I have caught a lot of it but there are so many things i don't know about. She's lied so many times when i had the truth in black and white. I want to trust her but i can't. 

There are a lot of details Im leaving out so i guess ill have to add them in as we go.
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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Ywo two are in a endless cycle of hurt & betrayal.
Either seek professional help or get a divorce, this is no way to be married.


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

so now here we r today my wife has sided with her friends against me so many times i can't even count. But i feel like my best friend is gone forever. We don't even talk much less do any of the things we used to when we were first married. 

What should i do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

What Phenix said. Seek professional help. And LISTEN. I'm guessing that is not your strong point.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

hurtin said:


> so now here we r today my wife has sided with her friends against me so many times i can't even count. But i feel like my best friend is gone forever. We don't even talk much less do any of the things we used to when we were first married.
> 
> What should i do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This marriage is over. All you two are doing is hurting each other. By the way. She already knew about her best friend in 95. She just wanted to hear it from you. At least you didn't lie about it.


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

i knew so of these replys were going to be harsh.so u guys r saying that either get a divorce or i should let her continue to punish me for 11 more years til were even. I admitted my mistakes. I have apologized many times and and the first time i screwed up was before we were married. I never slept with anyone else but pat since we've been married. And dude just because someone is out of Ur league doesn't mean u should bow down either .
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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

hurtin said:


> so now here we r today my wife has sided with her friends against me so many times i can't even count. But i feel like my best friend is gone forever. We don't even talk much less do any of the things we used to when we were first married.
> 
> What should i do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your marriage is over - you just do not want to face it.

If you can not consider divorce - then try to make the best of a cheating, lying, disrespectful, wife who values her friends over you and your marriage.

You must both want to make the marriage work or all attempts to fix it are doomed to fail.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

TDSC60 said:


> Your marriage is over - you just do not want to face it.
> 
> If you can not consider divorce - then try to make the best of a cheating, lying, disrespectful, wife who values her friends over you and your marriage.
> 
> You must both want to make the marriage work or all attempts to fix it are doomed to fail.


TDSC60 is right. If there isn't 1005 commitment from both parties to make it work, then the marriage is over. You have caught her a bunch of times trying to cheat. Well, I'm guessing that there are times that you didn't catch her.


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

i guess i was hoping to hear of a magic cure, but i guess not. Tell me how it is that all of what i wrote sounds so right to me but obviously not to anyone else. Does anyone have any advice on how i can save this marriage. We don't have money for a therapist someone must have been in the same boat.
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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

i would like to hear female view points as well.
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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

these r stinging guys
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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

You don't have money for a Therapist? GREAT!!! because it wouldn't have worked anyway. Go back and read the part that says that if you do not have 100% commitment from BOTH parties to make it work, then it won't happen.

What is your wife's stance on this. You said that she's listen to her friends. What exactly is being said?


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

hurtin said:


> i guess i was hoping to hear of a magic cure, but i guess not. Tell me how it is that all of what i wrote sounds so right to me but obviously not to anyone else. Does anyone have any advice on how i can save this marriage. We don't have money for a therapist someone must have been in the same boat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Therapy is cheaper than divorce, believe me!


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Of course this is supposed to sting! DUDE!!! You cheated on your wife several times! You need to own up to what YOU did wrong first! Your really haven't expressed too much ownership here!

Your more concerned about what she's doing to you. But, you need to consider what your actions have done to her!


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Serial cheaters cheat for life.... Just saying.

My ex h is living proof. I was smart and left his arse. I'm in a very healthy relationship now and married for the best 12 years of my life.


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

crossbar dude i screwed up those two time what else is there to own up to. And does it not matter that one of my errors occurred at the age of 20 and we were not married. What stupid things did u do back then. Im sure there's a few.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

hurtin said:


> i knew so of these replys were going to be harsh.so u guys r saying that either get a divorce or i should let her continue to punish me for 11 more years til were even.


No one here has suggested that you let her continue to punish you until the two of you are even.

For one thing, the two of you will never be “even”. You are the one who broke the marriage with your two affairs. Her actions are in response to the death you dealt to your marriage.

There is a slim, very slim, chance that you can save this marriage and actually go on to have a good marriage after this. It will take years for both of you to get over the pain you have both dealt to each other. You will both have to look deep inside of yourselves to change yourselves.

It sounds like you might be willing to do this. But it’s not clear your wife is. So if you want to save your marriage you will need to talk to your wife and find out if she is willing to stop her games and work on the marriage and fidelity. If she is not, you have nothing to save…your marriage is over.



hurtin said:


> I admitted my mistakes. I have apologized many times and and the first time i screwed up was before we were married. I never slept with anyone else but pat since we've been married. And dude just because someone is out of Ur league doesn't mean u should bow down either .


Your choice of words is very indicative of your mindset. “Mistakes”. 

The affairs were not ‘mistakes’. They were conscious decisions.

Your wife does not care that you were not married to her the first time you cheated, you were living with her hence you were in a committed relationship with her. And the only reason you stayed with her was because she was pregnant. She knows this and does not feel loved by you. To her the affairs confirm that.

You married your wife only because she was pregnant with your baby. You might have come to love her, but this marriage would have never happened had she not been pregnant. There is a HUGE possibility that she now believes that you do not and have never loved her. Have you ever told her that you were going to break up with her until you found out that she was pregnant?

Something has broken in your wife. 

She is cheating on you. So tell her that her choice is to either give up all the cheating activity, the lies and go to MC w/you or you will file for divorce. 

The only other choice, going on the way it is going is not acceptable.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

hurtin,

I'm sorry you're going through this. Your problem sounds much deeper than you would like to believe (it's usually the other way around).

I see red flags of buried resentment towards pat in many of your sentences. I also see clear traces of insecurity.

Your first child may have had to endure some of your subconscious resentments towards yourself, your wife and your daughter as well. 

These things have resulted in a toxic and complex situation where you can not think clearly anymore.

So back to your original question: Is it my fault?

Is it your fault that you're not feeling okay? YES

Is it your fault that your wife has betrayed your trust? NO

Is it your fault that your fault that your wife doesn't trust you? YES

The biggest question: 

Is it your fault that this marriage might fail? 

Yes partially though. 

I would say, if you're being truthful about not having slept with anyone but Pat since you got married, and you were remorseful after that 3-month friendship with the bar lady, then I would say Pat is emotionally abusing you at this point.

There is no ending to this unless both you and Pat achieve a good level of self-awareness. None of you sound like you know who you are anymore.

Individual counseling is a must. You can't force your wife to do anything, so start with yourself. In a while you'll have a clear head and the ability to apply logic to your decisions.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

hurtin said:


> i guess i was hoping to hear of a magic cure, but i guess not. Tell me how it is that all of what i wrote sounds so right to me but obviously not to anyone else. Does anyone have any advice on how i can save this marriage. We don't have money for a therapist someone must have been in the same boat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you really want to save your marriage, get a telephone conseling session with Dr. Harley at Marriage Builders ® - Successful Marriage Advice. He handles the sort of sitauation you find yourself in right now. Buy his book "Surviving an Affair" and read it, do what it says. Then look at the books linked to below under building a passionate marriage for when/if you get your wife to re-build your marriage.

The fact that your wife has not left you yet means that there might be a chance. 

That's the best advice I can give.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> i guess i was hoping to hear of a magic cure


The magic cure to all your problems is self-awareness. You're not living until you become self-aware. Being self-aware means understanding the reason behind and the consequence of every single decision you make in life.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

hurtin said:


> crossbar dude i screwed up those two time what else is there to own up to. And does it not matter that one of my errors occurred at the age of 20 and we were not married. What stupid things did u do back then. Im sure there's a few.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sure, when I was 20 I did some crazy things....but, I never cheated on anyone. Okay, so you weren't married! However, you were supposed to be in a committed relationship with her. Point I'm trying to get to is that you are not guilt free in all of this choas! Okay, so let me ask you what corrective measures have you taken to fix your mistakes?

Fully transparent with her. Does she have all of your passwords to e-mail accounts and Facebook?

Are you fully accountable for your whereabouts 24/7 to her?

Have you done any reading? Buy any books like, "How to survive the affair"?

Where you tested for STD's after your mistakes?

Does she have full access to your phone and phone logs?

Those are some of the things that you could be doing without the aid of a therapist.

And you said that you can't afford counseling. Have you checked with the churches in your community. Some of them do have counseling groups. Did you look into them?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

hurtin said:


> crossbar dude i screwed up those two time what else is there to own up to. And does it not matter that one of my errors occurred at the age of 20 and we were not married. What stupid things did u do back then. Im sure there's a few.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Check your private massages....

No it does not matter that the first time was when you were 20. You felt that you were adult enough at 20 to live with a woman, to have sex with several women... you were an adult even at 20. 20 year olds have been considered responsible adults since the dawn of time. 

20 year olds enlist in the military and put their lives at risk. 20 year olds are considered adults when they commit crimes. 20 year olds can face the death penalty. 

You were in a committed relationship with Pat at 20. You were living with her. You cheated on a committed partner. It was your obligation to break up with her first and move out before you had sex with someone else.

Don't forget that you also cheated on your other girlfriend when you first hooked up with Pat. This is not a good history.

I lived with a guy for a few years who turned out to be cheating ... his excuse was that we were not married. I'm sorry, we agreed to be exclusive. I would not have lived with him otherwise. I kicked him to the curb as soon as I found out about his infidelity.


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

fair enough to all who replied. i will leave this page up for pat if she wants to reply. she will be happy that she is and has been right all along. im gonna go cry like a baby. i ruined 4 peoples lives. my wife and two beautiful daughters and myself. there has been too many hurtful things said and done on both our parts. i really cant see this working. i was hoping that pat would read this and see it the other way around but ive been thinking wrong for so many years why would it be any other way. i wish i could take it all back. well please send her some good advice. im not sure if she will create her own account or just use this one.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

hurtin said:


> fair enough to all who replied. i will leave this page up for pat if she wants to reply. she will be happy that she is and has been right all along. im gonna go cry like a baby. i ruined 4 peoples lives. my wife and two beautiful daughters and myself. there has been too many hurtful things said and done on both our parts. i really cant see this working. i was hoping that pat would read this and see it the other way around but ive been thinking wrong for so many years why would it be any other way. i wish i could take it all back. well please send her some good advice. im not sure if she will create her own account or just use this one.


Did you check your private messages?


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Well, what did you want to hear? Or what did you want Pat to read? That she's sooo wrong and I can't believe that she would treat you like this? 

Well, here's the rub! She DID treat you badly. What she's doing is VERY wrong. Revenge affairs NEVER even up the score. And ultimately it's driving the two of you farther apart from each other. Not trusting each other; and with good reason. Because you have cheated and she IS cheating. 

Tell her to get on here. See where she stands in all of this. I know you want to save the marriage. But the question is, does she? That's what we need to know.

If she's interested in saving this, then there's people here that can point you in the right direction. get you two on the road to reconciliation.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

What you did may have been the catalyst to your failing/failed marriage,but there's also plenty for your wife to own.I'm curious as to why she remains in the marriage?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

If Pat wanted to hook up, I doubt you could have intercepted and stopped all attempts, so you should assume that she too has cheated given what you caught her doing.

So you started all of this, put she escallated things by having revenge affairs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

tell your wife that you are divorcing her next time you catch her in a lie and follow up with it. Nobody wants a divorce but sometimes it is only option that leaves you with some sanity


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

hurtin said:


> fair enough to all who replied. i will leave this page up for pat if she wants to reply. she will be happy that she is and has been right all along. im gonna go cry like a baby. i ruined 4 peoples lives. my wife and two beautiful daughters and myself. there has been too many hurtful things said and done on both our parts. i really cant see this working. i was hoping that pat would read this and see it the other way around but ive been thinking wrong for so many years why would it be any other way. i wish i could take it all back. well please send her some good advice. im not sure if she will create her own account or just use this one.


You didn't ruin it by yourself. She's just as much to blame right now as you are. You screwed up big time in the past, now she's throwing it in your face for petty revenge to get back at you.

This marriage might be beyond repair at this point, you both might have to think about separating to fix each of your lives 1st to make a better life for your kids. And then if you both think you want another go at it, you can try again. But not until you both fix yourselves.


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

Hi people this is "Pat" boy what a surprise seeing the story of my life on here. My husband is having a hard time still dealing w '09. Yes I had enough, everyone has a breaking point. I did flirting and sexting but didnt screw anyone. It is 2012 and im tired of the past being thrown in my face. I try to forget that he betrayed not once but twice. My ex-best friend who was my maid of honor at our wedding and stayed in our lives all these yrs was yes the ultimate betrayl. But I chose to move on and not let the ***** ruin my family anymore. My husband has had two spinal surgeries and I have been here for him through it all. I went out for a couple hours w sum girlfriends saturday for a sanity break and life has been hell since. I dont know how to try and have a happy life if he keeps bringing up the past and think im goina screw around. So there it is in a shorter version. I am a good looking woman, take care of myself and yes get hit on alot, but im not a cheater and dont want that. Please let my husband know to let go of the past or this marriage is doomed. I know we can be happy, but not w jealousy as the root. Any suggestions on how he can move on. Hes at home all the time due to the surgeries and has too much time on his hands and starts dwelling on the PAST!!


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

You seem to think sexting is not cheating because it isn't physical

You are wrong


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> If Pat wanted to hook up, I doubt you could have intercepted and stopped all attempts, so you should assume that she too has cheated given what you caught her doing.
> 
> So you started all of this, put she escallated things by having revenge affairs.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


no affairs on my side just for the record. O9 was a hurtful painful year and I finally accepted that we were done, My husband moved out a couple times, left me and the girls w nothing, so of course i would react. I dont know if this site will be helpful, i know my mistakes and have taken ownership. My husband on the other hand lives in the past. I dont know what else to do. I work full time as a nurse, take care of two girls who have to be run every where, then come home to someone throwing the past at me. I would never cheat, its not my style, i know how it feels.


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> You seem to think sexting is not cheating because it isn't physical
> 
> You are wrong


ur right i agree, sexting is cheating and I know i was acting out of hurt and revenge. Nothing is worse than a best friend and husband. I hate thinking of all this hurt and it needs to be put behind. Its 2012 please let him know that:scratchhead:


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

hurtin said:


> no affairs on my side just for the record. O9 was a hurtful painful year and I finally accepted that we were done, My husband moved out a couple times, left me and the girls w nothing, so of course i would react. I dont know if this site will be helpful, i know my mistakes and have taken ownership. My husband on the other hand lives in the past. I dont know what else to do. I work full time as a nurse, take care of two girls who have to be run every where, then come home to someone throwing the past at me. I would never cheat, its not my style, i know how it feels.


Ummm... yeah you had an affair. Or at least you did cheat. A good definition of cheating is when you say or do something with someone else that you wouldn't do infront of your spouse. I'm pretty sure you didn't sext with this other person in front of your husband...so, you cheated.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

You can't just forget the past. I have a feeling that he's feeling more guilty tan your realize.

He's constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop. It's as I he knows he deserves to be cheated on because of what he did in the past. And lets face it. Your slate isn't clean either. It's not uncommon for a cheater to become this paranoid. 

So, my question is. Do you want your marriage?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

hurtin said:


> Hi people this is "Pat" boy what a surprise seeing the story of my life on here. My husband is having a hard time still dealing w '09. Yes I had enough, everyone has a breaking point. I did flirting and sexting but didnt screw anyone. It is 2012 and im tired of the past being thrown in my face. I try to forget that he betrayed not once but twice. My ex-best friend who was my maid of honor at our wedding and stayed in our lives all these yrs was yes the ultimate betrayl. But I chose to move on and not let the ***** ruin my family anymore. My husband has had two spinal surgeries and I have been here for him through it all. I went out for a couple hours w sum girlfriends saturday for a sanity break and life has been hell since. I dont know how to try and have a happy life if he keeps bringing up the past and think im goina screw around. So there it is in a shorter version. I am a good looking woman, take care of myself and yes get hit on alot, but im not a cheater and dont want that. Please let my husband know to let go of the past or this marriage is doomed. I know we can be happy, but not w jealousy as the root. Any suggestions on how he can move on. Hes at home all the time due to the surgeries and has too much time on his hands and starts dwelling on the PAST!!


Hi Pat... could you please set up your own account so we know which of you is posting. It works a lot better that way.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

hurtin said:


> Hi people this is "Pat" boy what a surprise seeing the story of my life on here. My husband is having a hard time still dealing w '09. Yes I had enough, everyone has a breaking point. I did flirting and sexting but didnt screw anyone. It is 2012 and im tired of the past being thrown in my face. I try to forget that he betrayed not once but twice. My ex-best friend who was my maid of honor at our wedding and stayed in our lives all these yrs was yes the ultimate betrayl. But I chose to move on and not let the ***** ruin my family anymore. My husband has had two spinal surgeries and I have been here for him through it all. I went out for a couple hours w sum girlfriends saturday for a sanity break and life has been hell since. I dont know how to try and have a happy life if he keeps bringing up the past and think im goina screw around. So there it is in a shorter version. I am a good looking woman, take care of myself and yes get hit on alot, but im not a cheater and dont want that. Please let my husband know to let go of the past or this marriage is doomed. I know we can be happy, but not w jealousy as the root. Any suggestions on how he can move on. Hes at home all the time due to the surgeries and has too much time on his hands and starts dwelling on the PAST!!



We are not here to take sides.

Get over it is the worst thing you can say to someone you betrayed. Atleast realize that if not anything.

And your disinterest to the whole situation is pretty obvious. Maybe you never got over the resentment.


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> No one here has suggested that you let her continue to punish you until the two of you are even.
> 
> For one thing, the two of you will never be “even”. You are the one who broke the marriage with your two affairs. Her actions are in response to the death you dealt to your marriage.
> 
> ...


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

I thought this site was a bad idea at first, but now i c i wasent alone it what i was feeling and doing. I dont even know that person i was in '09 and I hated her. And yes the past can come to haunt u, but I have really tried to put it behind. I think the only thing that will break us is if my husband cant move on. Im done w things thrown in my face. Im a happy, social, kind person and dont want to feel this drama anymore. I just hope my husband can move on. ;(


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Hi Pat... could you please set up your own account so we know which of you is posting. It works a lot better that way.


k


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

You keep saying "put it behind you"

That is the very definition of rug sweeping and it's the worst thing you can do in cases of infidelity

I also think you guys would get major help by establishing boundaries


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

He cannot move on by you wishing for it. There are somethings that you both should do to get over it and it will be hard work.


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

ok hey guys this is now the mister. After i read what u guys, total independents. I hope i spelled that right and now i wish pat had set up her own profile ,had to say I was trying to be vague and to the point but ok. She makes it sound like she only screwed around in 09. Yeah ok. 09 was just the start. Lets c there were 2 guys even before i was ready to accept all the blame and stop torturing the kids. And i still will do that but i knew she was gonna sling mud so here is some back. And u know what i still and i can't believe it love her and would be willing to try getting past all this with some honesty from hereabouts what been happening and a promise to stop and be my best friend again. I did wrong she did wrong and i still love her. But she won't stop. stop.i told her about her best friend and i. One was a 19 yo kid. I got involved in that she went out and got a pre paid phone to stay in touch with him and that was April of 09. On Oct 3rd of 09 she was going to an Avon party she said, so i asked her to pick up a pizza on her way home. Ok . The next day i find a receipt from this kids restaurant. That's where she really went and had the nerve to feed me that food but she said he wasn't there. She told me. in and that she has been in contact with as late as this year new years eve 2011 we get done having sex and the next day i look at the cell phone usage and she was testing him when i was in the bathroom. Oh and mysteriously this kid texts her in march of 2012 just to c how she has been is what Im told. Can't verify cuz she deleted her history.and then the mechanic in 09 who i called. And then the hot father on the field trip boss in the spring of 2010. Who she has had contact with as late as December of 2011. she even went outside at my company xmas party and was texting him. And the there was Dave a high school sweet heart who she texTed the day before her reunion that she wanted to catch up physically and goes out there with out me and won't answer her phone. And then the two guys our she was emailing on new years this year talking about a 2012 to do list.and also didn't want to say it but pat drinks everyday and i can't because of the med .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

sorry for the typos Im walking around
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

So iow she has had multiple EAs and hasn't gone no contact with them


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

no. Not at all. From when i caught her in Feb 09 all the way to last night with the assistant softball coach. Who i noticed was texting her late last night. So i called him today and he apologized and told me what went on before i even said a word after who i was. But she denies until there proof. I no i make her sound bad but its true i have caught her so many times even she says i should a detective. But whatever. This is serious. I love the one who hurts me because i still feel guilty for what i did.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trish79 (May 25, 2012)

Hurtin, my husband and i are about your age and going through our own tough time right now, which is why i'm on this board. I believe in two people being bonded - but i also believe that there are some things you can't come back from. You two have spent years hurting each other and those hurtful feelings and resentment does not go away by itself. The things you have done have added up - you may not realize that by strolling out on your marriage you have not actually taken the time to be invested in your marriage or your kids - you have been emotionally unavailable for quite some time and your wife has been dealing with that for years. She's had to be alone emotionally. You said you two have been disconnected, but i hope you aren't wondering why because this is how it started. This is the reason she is out capturing some type of attention or affections from others - because she's not been gettng it from you for some time. Let me tell you - when a woman is done - she is done and she is going to check out. My only suggestion is to find a marriage counselor that can help the two of you figure out if there is anything at all left to mend. Good luck.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I think you have an uphill climb and it will require tons of work so Im not positive it can be saved BUT your best shot imo is to do the following:

1) You guys have NO CONTACT with your AP's In fact send no contact letters (see newbie link for an example)

2) You guys are both TRANSPARENT. All passwords, phone info, whereabouts and everything else is an open book to each other. In fact as weird as this sounds, I think you both should spy on each other for a period of time to help you regain trust with each other when it is verified that the other actually does what they say

3) You both start demonstrating REMORSE
no more rug sweeping
no more trickle truth
no more blameshifting
100% accountability for your affairs
start using radical honesty with each other

4) You spend 10-15 hours a week of one on one time (not TV watching) and start rebonding

5) Spend time making a lost of mutually acceptable BOUNDARIES
I suggest that GNO and BNO's not include clubs or dancing and should be very limited. No close opposite sex friends. Etc


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## Ben Connedfussed (May 4, 2012)

Phenix70 said:


> Ywo two are in a endless cycle of hurt & betrayal.
> Either seek professional help or get a divorce, this is no way to be married.


Endless cycles of hurting.... Get help before you hurt each other more. Individual counseling is a great start. Then...


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

hurtin said:


> I thought this site was a bad idea at first, but now i c i wasent alone it what i was feeling and doing. I dont even know that person i was in '09 and I hated her. And yes the past can come to haunt u, but *I have really tried to put it behind. I think the only thing that will break us is if my husband cant move on. Im done w things thrown in my face.* Im a happy, social, kind person and *dont want to feel this drama anymore.* I just hope my husband can move on. ;(


Well, until HE is ready to move past it... you will have to deal with it. 

It took my husband two years to finally come to grips with my first emotional affair. Yes, I said first. I had two. The second one was last year, and lasted about eight months. The first one, my husband used guilt (suicide threat) to scare me into ending it. It worked. But things went back to the way they had been before... no real change from either of us. 

The second one ended in November. I walked around in a fog for a month, maybe longer, afterward. I was in limbo. I had pushed my husband so far away and I wasn't sure what I was gonna do. It took me THREE MONTHS to finally admit that I wanted to stay married to my husband, that I love him. 

But it was nearly too late for me. He had begun his own EA. But, it was caught before it went TOO far. He chose me, when given the ultimatum "her or me". He wants me to just move past it, leave it in the past. But it takes more than a couple months to get over it. He knows this. He has been thru it. But I am working thru my anger and all the other feelings regarding this.

Now, why did I tell you all of this? In order to get past this, if you want your marriage to work, you need to do a few things. First, "hurtin" needs to forgive himself. Also, YOU, Pat, need to forgive him. It doesn't mean you forget it. It is always gonna be there. But you don't throw it in his face when arguing. At the same time, "hurtin", you need to acknowledge that it was more than a mistake... well, two. It was an affair. Both times. One was physical, and the other was, apparently, emotional. Regardless, they were affairs, not "mistakes".

Second, to commit to reconciling, Pat, you need to stop any and all sexting and /or other behavior that is detrimental to the marriage. But this actually goes for both of you. Stop all behavior that will break apart the marriage. 

Also, give each other time to work thru this. Don't throw it back at each other. Work together to make the marriage better.


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

Unhappy2011 said:


> What is your deal? I see both of these two people owning up to their past, yet every one of your posts seems hell bent on telling them they are cheaters.
> 
> I don't get how you think that is productive.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank u (this is pat) Im so beyond embarressed by all this. I only did this so that I can help my husband cope w his emotions. I can in all a clear conscience say that when I talk of my family to others Ive always been proud to say we have been together for 17 years. It hasent been easy but from this point on I think we should be able to enjoy our lives together. I dont need anyone else, just my family. I just hope my husband can get on the same page


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Well, until HE is ready to move past it... you will have to deal with it.
> 
> It took my husband two years to finally come to grips with my first emotional affair. Yes, I said first. I had two. The second one was last year, and lasted about eight months. The first one, my husband used guilt (suicide threat) to scare me into ending it. It worked. But things went back to the way they had been before... no real change from either of us.
> 
> ...


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

This is Pat (sorry i havent got my own yet) Thank you every one who has responded. I really apprecitate your insight. Its hard when you know what you want, and feel like your really working toward that goal, then your blindsided and realize your hard work isnt even noticed". I hope you can give my husband something that he can use to help deal w his emotions. I know the 2 surgeries and the ****load of meds affect how he feels, and being couped up is hard. I do love him and hope it wont be to late. We have a beautiful family it would be a same to let it fall apart


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

(Pat here) thanks true on all parts


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Pat why are men still texting you?


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

Mr. Here. Once again I want to thank everyone for taking time out of their day to wheigh in on our drama, but u helped me realize that i will never be done paying for the original sin in this relationship. And u know what i don't disagree with any of you. I can now see y this is all my fault. I wish there was a do over button.But the things she just said and the way she said them she just said and how she said them, u all know what Im talking about. I know its over. I won't be treated like a dog u kick and it keeps coming back. I didn't think she could be that mean to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

hurtin said:


> Mr. Here. Once again I want to thank everyone for taking time out of their day to wheigh in on our drama, but u helped me realize that i will never be done paying for the original sin in this relationship. And u know what i don't disagree with any of you. I can now see y this is all my fault. I wish there was a do over button.But the things she just said and the way she said them she just said and how she said them, u all know what Im talking about. I know its over. I won't be treated like a dog u kick and it keeps coming back. I didn't think she could be that mean to me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Huh? What exactly did she say? Did I miss something?

Okay, first! This isn't ALL of your fault! You can be blamed for 50% of the problems in your marriage. And she can be blamed for the other 50%. But, yours affairs were 100% on you. And her affairs are 100% on her!

Don't jump to conclusin and throw in the towel too soon. Hell, you haven't even scratched the surface to all the problems and you're ready to give up. 

Just chill out and take a deep breath. Walk away and clear your head.


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

crossbar said:


> Huh? What exactly did she say? Did I miss something?
> 
> Okay, first! This isn't ALL of your fault! You can be blamed for 50% of the problems in your marriage. And she can be blamed for the other 50%. But, yours affairs were 100% on you. And her affairs are 100% on her!
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

crossbar said:


> Huh? What exactly did she say? Did I miss something?
> 
> Okay, first! This isn't ALL of your fault! You can be blamed for 50% of the problems in your marriage. And she can be blamed for the other 50%. But, yours affairs were 100% on you. And her affairs are 100% on her!
> 
> ...






Dude Im just tired. I really am. Been trying for since 09. I am even turning to her church now. . None of it will change. Even all your replys , in her discussion to me all repeated were the bad things i did. She doesn't want to change so nothing will. Thanx again dude.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

The two of you need to take a deep breath and then get yourselves into marriage councelling.

And both of you,: Stop talking with members of the opposite sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Pat, will you answer my question above?


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

she never answered why guys txing her. You said you caught her last night, yet she is acting like she is doing nothing. You are no dog. the score is even, even tho she had more guys, and if she believe we are fools enough to believe her then she is the fools. Remember " how do you know a cheater is lying ?? Their lips are moving" Do what you want hurtin, you paid your dues.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Her posts are a good live example of rug sweeping and trivializing her affairs. She is clearly in fog lying without much problem. Counseling "might" help her but she has to take the initiative


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Her posts are a good live example of rug sweeping and trivializing her affairs. She is clearly in fog lying without much problem. Counseling "might" help her but she has to take the initiative


I would be happy to c her set up her own acct. And answer el and some others.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

she say she want him to get over it, and got caught last night !!! That don't sound like he is throwing up the past, hell, he have a cake eater posting, and rug sweeping. Let her go Hurtin, just be the best dad to your kids. Avon must have being sold in the parking lot at the kids jobs, she just happen to need a little sumthin sumthin in the back seat to go from the kid.


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

(Pat here) wow things turned a bit ugly since i was last on. As far as guys texting me, this man is the assistant coach to my daughters softball team. I have had to be in control and contact for both of my daughters especially since my husband cant. I wasent inappropriate w him, and because the coach joked about getting a drink to celebrate. I little insignificant flirt (for me anyways) does not constitute an affair or even trying to do anything w anyone else. Im a social person, always have been from the day my husband met me. Im nice to everyone but that dosent mean i want to sleep w them. My husband has lived the life of a hermit for the last year and a half due to surgeries. So his time is spent trying to get me to do something wrong. I dont want to live under a cloud of suspicion, and he has all my passwords, yet I am a person that needs her girlfriends too. Please all u woman know what Im saying. We need to vent, it dosent mean I dont love my family any less. I really dont know what else to do to prove my faithfulness and my regret for my past.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

hurtin said:


> (Pat here) wow things turned a bit ugly since i was last on. As far as guys texting me, this man is the assistant coach to my daughters softball team. I have had to be in control and contact for both of my daughters especially since my husband cant. I wasent inappropriate w him, and because the coach joked about getting a drink to celebrate. I *little insignificant flirt* (for me anyways) *does not constitute an affair or even trying to do anything w anyone else.* Im a social person, always have been from the day my husband met me. Im nice to everyone but that dosent mean i want to sleep w them. My husband has lived the life of a hermit for the last year and a half due to surgeries. So his time is spent trying to get me to do something wrong. I dont want to live under a cloud of suspicion, and he has all my passwords, yet I am a person that needs her girlfriends too. Please all u woman know what Im saying. We need to vent, it dosent mean I dont love my family any less. I really dont know what else to do to prove my faithfulness and my regret for my past.


You are married. There is no such thing as a "little flirting" outside of your marriage. The ONLY person you should be flirting with is your husband. The so-called "innocent flirtation" is the bs that starts emotional and/or physical affairs. You can be social without being flirty.


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

I wasent flirting on my part I just tried to laugh it off. But obviously when my husband grabbed my phone and went through it, I can c y he may have got the wrong idea. Its just the way he handles things and is accusing. Im 100% committed to this family, but when ur husband degrates u and tells u he wants to move out all the time, it lowers your self esteem. So selfishly when a compliment is thrown my way I accept it.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

This is for the husband:

Based on your wife's responses I think you're in for a lifetime of constant heartbreak and fear. Your wife does not understand your perfectly normal vulnerabilities and is actually abusing them without much concern.

Unfortunately the only way for her to realize her destructive behavior is for her to hit rock-bottom. She's definitely headed towards it, but whether you will stay to rescue her from her fall is up to you.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

hurtin said:


> I wasent flirting on my part I just tried to laugh it off. But obviously when my husband grabbed my phone and went through it, I can c y he may have got the wrong idea. Its just the way he handles things and is accusing. Im 100% committed to this family, but when ur husband degrates u and tells u he wants to move out all the time, it lowers your self esteem. So selfishly when a compliment is thrown my way I accept it.


Actually, I don't think you do see. You said yourself that "*I little insignificant flirt (for me anyways) does not constitute an affair or even trying to do anything w anyone else.*".... And then you try to say you weren't flirting? It can't be both. And, seeing ANYTHING flirty from you to another man isn't taking it the wrong way. Been thru this with my husband already. And he was right. Now, even if YOU have no feelings or whatever toward these men, they want something from you. That should be enough to stop talking to them. That, and the fact that your husband is uncomfortable with it. 

Also...really, it would be nice if you, Pat, would just set up your own account here. Would make things easier. And it doesn't take much time to do it, either.


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## Pat (wife of hurtin) (May 25, 2012)

own account set up.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

hurtin said:


> I wasent flirting on my part I just tried to laugh it off. But obviously when my husband grabbed my phone and went through it, I can c y he may have got the wrong idea. Its just the way he handles things and is accusing. Im 100% committed to this family, but when ur husband degrates u and tells u he wants to move out all the time, it lowers your self esteem. So selfishly when a compliment is thrown my way I accept it.


Pat, here's the thing. Your marriage is in trouble and there is a huge lack of trust between the both of you. So now you both need to be extra sensitive to the other’s needs and feelings.

Was it really 100% necessary that this assistant coach text you?

When a man, any man, ‘jokes’ about getting drinks for any reason, he is 99% of the time testing the waters. Men do not waste time with women they do not want to have sex with. You better believe that the assistant coach is not texting the homely/fat mothers of the girls on the team. For some reason there is not an urgent need late at night to text those women about info needed for their daughters sports. 

Was there really an urgent need for him to text you late at night? Was there an urgent need for you to respond right then? Why?

When a man flirts with you, you need to respond is a manner that sets the record straight with that man and that lets your husband know that you are protecting his feelings/needs. Just laughing off and/or not responding to such a flirt or suggestion is a sign of acceptance and agreement that yea, this going out for a drink is a good idea.

There are several non-confrontational ways to shut down this type of flirting. For example respond with “Ok, I’ll see when my husband is available and we can all go out for a drink.” Or “Don’t think our spouses would agree with us going out for a drink.”
So yes I can also see why your husband can get what you call the wrong idea. It’s because you are not doing things in the manner in which a faithful wife would behave. When you text, respond as you would if your husband was right there with you seeing the incoming and out going texts.

How does your husband degrade you? Please give us examples.

What reason does he give for saying that he wants to move out?

A man telling you that he wants to go have a drink with you is not a “completment” you should accept. Do you really find it complimentary for a man (who is probably married) to basically let you know that he has the idea that you are a **** and willing to cheat on your spouse? Is this really a complement? Or is it a horn dog looking for some a$$? Think about that? For a good looking, flirty woman, such compliments are so easy to get that they have no value at all. 

I’m not trying to be mean to you. Instead I’m trying to get you to understand that there is a different way for you to handle this all that will nurture yourself, your husband and your family.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Pat (wife of hurtin) said:


> own account set up.


Good going!!! Welcome aboard. :smthumbup:


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Reading this thread, I think though I never had the experience, is like talking to someone with a split personality.

Hopefully, the new account for the wife alleviates this.


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## Pat (wife of hurtin) (May 25, 2012)

Reason the text was late at night is because I work the night shift so i dont respond to anyone until then. its just so frustrating for me because it dosent matter if its a guy or girl he already admitted he dosent want me having any friends other than him. I cant live in a bubble and not be friends w people. It dosent mean I want to sleep w them. Im not really sure where this will go. Im hoping for the best. TY everyone.


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## Pat (wife of hurtin) (May 25, 2012)

Ha sorry about the confusion. I dont like to air my dirty laundry and I just thought I would be a quick jump on and that would be it. By the way, I hate the name Pat for me (it reminds me of Sat Nite Live) lol not trying to make light of things.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

HURTIN posts have a few red flags too TBH. It is almost as if he wanted TAM to be his army and gang up on his wife. I don't know, but Pat would be better giving off her side of the story in complete




> ok hey guys this is now the mister. After i read what u guys, total independents. I hope i spelled that right and now i wish pat had set up her own profile ,had to say I was trying to be vague and to the point but ok. She makes it sound like she only screwed around in 09. Yeah ok. 09 was just the start. Lets c there were 2 guys even *before i was ready to accept all the blame and stop torturing the kids*. *And i still will do that but i knew she was gonna sling mud so here is some back.* And u know what i still and i can't believe it love her and would be willing to try getting past all this with some honesty from hereabouts what been happening and a promise to stop and be my best friend again. I did wrong she did wrong and i still love her. But she won't stop. stop.i told her about her best friend and i. *One was a 19 yo kid. I got involved in that she went out and got a pre paid phone to stay in touch with him and that was April of 09.* On Oct 3rd of 09 she was going to an Avon party she said, so i asked her to pick up a pizza on her way home. Ok . The next day i find a receipt from this kids restaurant. That's where she really went and had the nerve to feed me that food but she said he wasn't there. She told me. in and that she has been in contact with as late as this year new years eve 2011 we get done having sex and the next day i look at the cell phone usage and she was testing him when i was in the bathroom. Oh and mysteriously this kid texts her in march of 2012 just to c how she has been is what Im told. Can't verify cuz she deleted her history.and then the mechanic in 09 who i called. And then the hot father on the field trip boss in the spring of 2010. Who she has had contact with as late as December of 2011. she even went outside at my company xmas party and was texting him. And the there was Dave a high school sweet heart who she texTed the day before her reunion that she wanted to catch up physically and goes out there with out me and won't answer her phone. And then the two guys our she was emailing on new years this year talking about a 2012 to do list.and also didn't want to say it but pat drinks everyday and i can't because of the med .


Pat, can you give us a perspective from your end?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Pat (wife of hurtin) said:


> Reason the text was late at night is because I work the night shift so i dont respond to anyone until then. its just so frustrating for me because it dosent matter if its a guy or girl he already admitted he dosent want me having any friends other than him. I cant live in a bubble and not be friends w people. It dosent mean I want to sleep w them. Im not really sure where this will go. Im hoping for the best. TY everyone.


So maybe your husband can respond to whether or not the issue is that he does not want you to have any friends except him.

Earlier I believe he mentioned that there were particular friends he objected to because they seemed to be not friendly to your marraige.

See clarification helps. If you work night shift then it would make sense that you might get texts late at night. But you were not at work.


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## hurtin (May 24, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pat (wife of hurtin) (May 25, 2012)

Hi again, u hit the nail on the head warlock07. This was purely to beat me down more than I have been. I guess all I have to say about 09 and 10, my anger and resentment surfaced and wanted him to feel how hurt and crushed I was by all the betrayal. Not just by my husband but my closest best friend. Then when the second betrayal happened, he chose to turn to my ex best friend for advice cuz they were so close. How was I suppose to act? I know a mature adult. Well I wanted him to hurt too. But in all seriousness I have invested and tried to make us work. 17 yrs is a long time. I just feel like he has used me to take care of everything for the last year and 1/2 and take care of him and now that hes going to be getting a settlement and is getting better, he has to come up w an excuse to leave. Maybe im paranoid, but for this to all be brought up again after months and months is weird.


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## Pat (wife of hurtin) (May 25, 2012)

yes I was at work. Just for clarification.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Pat (wife of hurtin) said:


> Hi again, u hit the nail on the head warlock07. This was purely to beat me down more than I have been. I guess all I have to say about 09 and 10, my anger and resentment surfaced and wanted him to feel how hurt and crushed I was by all the betrayal. Not just by my husband but my closest best friend. Then when the second betrayal happened, he chose to turn to my ex best friend for advice cuz they were so close. How was I suppose to act? I know a mature adult. Well I wanted him to hurt too.
> 
> But in all seriousness I have invested and tried to make us work. 17 yrs is a long time. I just feel like he has used me to take care of everything for the last year and 1/2 and take care of him and now that hes going to be getting a settlement and is getting better, he has to come up w an excuse to leave. Maybe im paranoid, but for this to all be brought up again after months and months is weird.


So he left out the part where he went back to talk to and ask advice from you ex best friend after the second betrayal. 

Is this settlement pretty big? Is it really big enough to for a person to pull such a scam?


When a person feels betrayed, as he does about the stuff in 2009, the topic will come up over and over until they feel satisfied that they know the truth and that they can trust their spouse again.

I also agree that when your husband first came here it was to get support that what he had done in the past was not really such a big deal but that your actions are a big deal. After all he awas only 20.. right? :scratchhead:

Well he did not get off with lightly. 

The damage your husband did with his infidelity is clear.

It's not clear about your infidelity, flirtations, whatever.

What is clear is that both of you are now going around in circles pointing fingers at each other and accusing each other of doing things that are hurtful and not healthy for your marriage. And each of you is denying what the other is accusing you of.

You two are the only ones who know the truth.

My suggestion is that the two of you just STOP. Stop all of this pointing fingers, accusing, putting each other down, threatening to leave. Just stop it already. 

And now start working on the future. Get into counseling. Also read and work through some of the excellent material that is available to help couples repair their marriage.

The best place I could suggest to start is with the books linked to in my signature block below... start with "Lovebusters" and "His Needs/Her Needs". You will learn a lot about yourselves, each other and how to have a healthy marriage.

In the meantime... stop the love busting. Love busters are things that destroy love. Obviously any kind of infidelity and inappropriate behavior with members of the opposite sex are love busters. Continually saying that you are leaving the marriage is a love buster (hurting). Never ever say that again unless you have the divorce papers in your hands and your bags packed. I think you get the idea

I really think that both of you need to stop trying to sort out the past, make the other suffer as much as you have and prove that you are the more committed spouse. If you fix the way you act towards each other, stop the love busters and meet each other needs in the manner your spouse needs to have them met… you will find that all that old stuff means very little. It was the expensive price for a very valuable education… and the catalyst that led to the two of you finally seeking out the help you need and in fixing your marriage.

If one of you is not willing to do the above out of love and caring for the other.. the marriage is over. File for divorce and move on.

So there is my kick in the rump to the both of you.. and it's coming from the best place within me.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I'll say this -Just because you(or him) did all you could does not mean you did what is need to be done. We all have blindspots that we may not realize. A professional might help both of you deal better with other's infidelity.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

hurtin posted in the forum guidelines sections asking about a referee

before I knew the full extent of the problem I said this:



Almostrecovered said:


> To add I think it matters as to what you're trying to achieve by having both on here
> 
> Good- need a safe place to state both needs and to be open to suggestions like books and what others have tried
> 
> Bad- trying to assess blame or see who is "right" ie. "76% of TAM think I am right!"



it appears that fell on deaf on ears

at this point you need to stop looking for the who is right who is wrong approach as it's obvious there is a lot of wrong on both sides

if you want to save this marriage, look for solutions instead, in the process you will come to your own admissions of when you were wrong

I think both of you should read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass to start and SET UP BOUNDARIES


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Pat, I hope you are wrong about him using this as an excuse to leave. Is she right dude?? Hurtin, why in the heck would you go to your AP for advice?? Couldn't you see how she would take that 
?? Nevertheless, Both should just STOP the accusing and really focus on each other. Pat he has a problem with the toxic friend of yours, is she really a friend of your marriage?? If she has enabled your behaviour in the past, I'd say not. Plz guys, take El's advice. And good luck.


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