# Wife talking to OM again. Going to tell OMW



## Bigsho61 (Sep 10, 2015)

So I posted earlier about what is going on. Just a quick recap. Back in April I found out my wife was having an affair with a cop. They both said that it was just an EA but they had kissed a few times. I dont believe this but I tried to reconcile. I come to find out recently they have been emailing at work. I saw these emails. There is nothing explicit or sexual about them. But they are joking around.

When I discovered the affair I gave my wife the ultimatum of quitting and never talking to this guy again. Financially it was tough so I let it go,(I know I'm and idiot) and she kept the job. Now I said something to her when I found out she was emailing him. She got mad and said she misses his friendship. I said you can't be friends. So now I find out they are still emailing. Not tot he extent as they had been talking and like I said nothing sexual at all. 

My question is this. Even if nothing is happening, am I righteous in taking my kids, filing, and leaving? I am so pissed right now its not even real. I just want an outsider's opinion because from what I see nothing is going on and I know that there is a good chance there is. 

Also, I'm putting together all the info I can from the affair. I will be getting it to the OMW at some point. But I'm going scorched earth on this. I'm also sending it to their HR and doing whatever I can to end this. 

My brother askes me if reconciliation is still a possibility. At this point I don't know. After I do this, I feel like it is burning bridges...


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

There's an old saying: "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.". This is a true saying, I've seen at work many a time. She's just seeing how much she can get away with, she's pushing the envelope and before long she'll be right back where she was, a full blown PA, whether you chose to believe that or not. She hasn't changed at all. She just LOVES cake. Time to either put you foot down or show her the door.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

First of all, if she still is continuing the affair either EA, PA or both, you and the kids stay put and she's the one put out on the street.

There's no reason for you or your kids to have to pull up stakes and find another place to live because of your wife's bad behavior. Like I said, file, don't say a word, have her served at work, get new checking and savings accounts, take you half of the money, new credit cards in your name, inform the cops wife and let her deal with it. Bring the affair to light with the chief of police and the town authorities, pack her bags and put them out on the porch. I would let the families and friends know about it before it gets twisted around are you made out to be the bad guy and above all find a lawyer with teeth.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Bigsho, if you want a chance at this then read the first page of this thread (all you need is on page one) and follow it to the letter. Do not deviate from it, as it will do more harm than good. Just do it as it's laid out. I cannot emphasize this enough.

Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Two married adults only kissing, without having sex, is not a probability. These two are having a physical affair. As your wife is not stopping her affair, I don't think that you have a choice but to divorce. She is totally disrespecting you and your children.

Don't tell her of your gathering evidence. Contact the Other Man's wife so that she can give you additional evidence. See a divorce attorney to protect your rights and assets. Listen to the attorney's guidance. After you have your ducks in a row, then contact Human Resources Office, Chief of Police, and notify family members.

Sorry you are here.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

A cop tried to pick my wife up once while he was on duty. I went straight at him. Took the wife down and had a meeting with the chief. Come to find out he was doing it all the time. He got a nice long suspension and his wife divorced him. 

This is actually your fault for not exposing the first time. did you really think they would stop? cheaters lie, deceive and hide. 

Contact the HR dept where they work and do full exposure.

if they are doing this during work hours they are toast.

get your thoughts together first. you can recover the deleted texts from her phone etc. Gather and keep your evidence. prepare for the sh8storm to follow but when it all comes out in full daylight you'll get the answer you need. 

Take command. They have no respect for you and could care less if you lose everything. If this leads to divorce you will suffer mental and financial anguish. You need to protect yourself and family. 

you are in the drivers seat here and don't even know it. Don't threaten or let them know. Just do it.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Bigsho61 said:


> She got mad and said she misses his friendship.


This isn't a random work guy or family friend she has known forever.
This isn't you trying to control every male she talks to. 
This isn't based on unfounded jealousy. 
This was an affair period.

I'm not progressive, for me, a physical affair is any type of hidden intimate sexual contact including kissing and over the clothes groping.

She has confirmed, over a 5 month period, this dude is more important than your marriage. 

Time to go.


The end.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I agree with everyone else. 

Do what they tell ya.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Perhaps the shock of you filing for divorce might get her out of his influence?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Kissing=sex.

She hasn't stopped.

Nuke their cheating asses and do not feel a bit bad about it.

When you are ready. Expose and act in one day.

Get all your ducks in a row and then pull the trigger.

Be ready to be totally calm, cold, certain and in control.

Let your wife see a terminator in you that is unstoppable and unwavering in purpose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She's shown you who is the priority in your marriage and it's her AP. Not you. Maybe she'll wake up and maybe she won't but you'll never know what will happen until she feels she's losing everything. Right now she doesn't feel that. Make sure she does.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Bigsho61 said:


> My question is this. Even if nothing is happening, am I righteous in taking my kids, filing, and leaving? I am so pissed right now its not even real. I just want an outsider's opinion because from what I see nothing is going on and I know that there is a good chance there is.


 A major study showed that in only 3% of the cases does the betrayed spouse ever catch the cheater actually in the act. In only 7% of the cases does the cheater every admit to cheating (that includes the 3% where they were caught). Thus in making a decisions, the betrayed has to go with common sense and logic in making a decision. Common sense and logic tell you that they are still in at least an emotional affair and are almost for sure also in a physical affair.

Cheaters will of course try to get you to ignore common sense and logic, and have you believe that even though they are adults with years of having a sex life, that they should be assumed to still be in high school and thus stopped at kissing. Here is how you deal with that. Tell her that you do not need her permission to think for yourself, and that you have determined that they are in an affair. Tell her that as a liar and a cheat, you know that she will deny it and that is OK with you, because you will be taking the appropriate action even without an admission by her to the truth. Tell her that the only way that she has a chance at maybe saving the marriage if for her to stop the lying and come clean, but that since you do not anticipate that she will do this, that you are contacting an attorney and moving forward with a divorce. Then just walk away and do the 180.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Bigsho61,

First she is the weak one. It takes strength and fortitude to make a marriage work. You chose marriage over drinking. Strength and fortitude. Stay tight with AA. Who is your mentor? There is a lot of support in AA to help you stay sober. Use it. 

Second: the only weakness you have is her. Know your weakness. She is in a fog. What is her fog; she is stuck married to a drunk
Who isn't there for her. She is good person, ruined by you. She hates you. She is justified in destroying you. Her AP is either a player who will dump her or is also in a fog and they will egg each other on. Why isn't she intimate ? She doesn't want to cheat on her affair partner. Remember she is a good girl and good girls don't cheat. You heard the justification for drinking at your meetings, same story different day. This is gospel. The AP is a pro at taking it underground. From burner phones and down the list. Google how to cheat and not get caught for a starting point.

Are you in a no fault state ? Follow elegirl's advice, I would just add the public library. Also, sadly I am sure a lot of your AA group have experience with divorcing. 

Adopt the belief your done. File first and then confront. Do not waiver. 180 nonstop, but always polite and neutral and patient in tone. You beat alcohol, you can do this. Only discuss reconciliation after the dust settles, during the waiting period,

Read truster's thread, now there is a guy who can cut to the chase.
Read Odat's thread to see the value of exposure. 
Start by posting your game plan. Who leaves the home HER, childcare, etc. If she can do it so can you,


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Yep time to follow through, the respect is gone and she is no longer your wife, but you can still be her chump.


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## X-B (Jul 25, 2013)

It is time to shine the light on everything.


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## eastsouth2000 (Jul 21, 2015)

yes reveal all information to OMW. yesterday!
call better yet face to face with evidence.

contact her email her the evidence.


now. since your planning to divorce.
~do not ever leave the marital home unless you want to lose custody and lose on the divorce settlement.
(judge's will see that as abandoning your children and family.)
~no you can never take the kids even if your wife is a serial cheater. the best that a man can get is 50%. even if she is a drug addict convict phycologically incompetent and insane the best that a father can hope for is 50% custody. so yeah you cant run away with the kids.
~do not ever inform her of impending divorce.
~don't argue over the marital home just sell it.
~careful WW is dating a cop. she can easily get you a TRO (Temporary Restraining Order). barring you form entering your own house.
~talk to an attorney as soon as possible.
~do not email your wife anything. dont email your wife anything emotional. she can use that against you.
~separate your finance.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Your gut already told you what to do. 

Everyone here is just reminding you that it's OK to believe in it.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Go ahead and burn that bridge...see if your old lady will walk through fire to save her marriage. Lets see if she is worthy to keep around by excepting the consequences for her actions.


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## warshaw (Jul 31, 2015)

Bigsho61 said:


> My question is this. Even if nothing is happening, am I righteous in taking my kids, filing, and leaving?


You have every right to file, I don't know that leaving is in your best interests, you need to consult with an attorney, you can't just take your kids away from her, that's kidnapping. 

Going to HR could result in her losing her job, also not a good thing if you're contemplating divorce which definitely should be your next move considering she's a cheater with no remorse.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Visit dadsdivorce dot com forums and look for "The List". It has a lot of good info which might give you some ideas on what you can do in your situation to protect yourself.

You should get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and wear it whenever you have a conversation with her. Especially if there is any kind of confrontation with her or the OM you will want to have it running. Avoid any and all physical contact. The law will presume the man is at fault in a domestic dispute, and you'll take the ride downtown wearing handcuffs. So have the VAR to record what really happened, and don't push pack or do anything even if she is pushing you or hitting you or blocking you from moving. Only if she is really hurting you, such as swinging a fry pan at you, should you physically defend yourself. Since OM is a cop you need to be extra careful when he is around not to get into a physical altercation.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

warshaw said:


> you can't just take your kids away from her, that's kidnapping.


Leaving with your own kids biological, married or both is not kidnapping. Yes, even if you do not tell your spouse. I speak from experience. I agree with consulting an attorney.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Bigsho

Stay cool and calm.

Get your ducks in order before making any major changes to your life or the kids.

Get the evidence you need, inform the OMW and on the same day file a complaint with the police dept.

And when your wife gets angry over your actions remind her that it us her bad decisions and lack of respect that gave brought all if you to this point.

Then let her know what your plans are for moving forward.

Remember, actions not words will make your situation improve.

Not get moving.

HM


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

If you go scorch earth and she still chooses OM's "friendship" over your marriage then you have your answer as to who she wants.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

I'd avoid scorched earth, that will only come back to bite you in the butt, I promise you.

As for what you should do, yes you should gather all the evidence you have on the affair and their continued communications/friendship/relationship. 

Next, are you ready to now risk your marriage? I know it's struggling now, and it might be going worse than you think it is, but you need to decide if you are ready to substantially put it's future at risk before you act further. If the marriage isn't on the best path towards recovering however (and your wife is insisting on being allowed to continue communicating with the OM in any capacity), then I think it's worth risking. If so, then yes, you should share everything you have with the OMW, and with the HR department at the Police Department. Within that profession there is usually an expectation of ethical behavior and he has certainly violated that and might have to answer some tough questions with his boss and possibly lose his job. I don't remember if you mention what your wife's job is there, but she might be in the same situation too. If so, you are also risking her income.

Doing this could give your marriage the best chance it's got as it will force a wake-up call on your wife. Possibly finding herself unemployed, and her actions and rediculous choices revealed for all the world to see, she might think differently about you and her future, or she might not. You can't really know.

If you are prepared to up and quit the marriage, then I would suggest doing all of this first just to see how it plays out. As far as "taking your kids" if you do leave, they are a completely separate issue. I know it might be hard to see now, but her cheating on you doesn't necessarily make her a bad mother, and you have to focus on what is best for them. If she is an otherwise great mom, then you probably shouldn't take them anywhere, and instead focus on working out a co-parenting situation.


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## warshaw (Jul 31, 2015)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Leaving with your own kids biological, married or both is not kidnapping. Yes, even if you do not tell your spouse. I speak from experience. I agree with consulting an attorney.


So I guess all those reality TV shows that depict one parent skipping out with the kids and the judge issuing an arrest warrant for the fleeing parent is all a bunch of nonsense. As well as all of those cases where they set up complicated raids to rescue children from foreign countries where they've been taken by one parent against the will of the other. 

Thanks for clearing that up, I guess you can't believe everything you see on TV.

I just did an internet search and the FBI defines parental kidnapping _How is a missing child defined? By law (specifically the 1982 Missing Children’s Act), it’s any person younger than 18 whose whereabouts are unknown to his or her legal custodian. Under the act, the circumstances surrounding the disappearance must indicate that the child was removed from the control of his or her legal custodian without the custodian’s consent, or the circumstances of the case must strongly indicate that the child is likely to have been abused or sexually exploited._

They go on an on about how it's illegal for one parent to take flight with the children.

_
The criminal processes enable the arrest of the abducting parent but do not specifically order the return of the child, although the child is usually returned when the parent is apprehended_

I guess the FBI is wrong too. You might want to write to them and clear up the misconception. Here's the link to their website that specifically address how they deal with family abductions- defined as the flight by one parent with the children, without the consent of the other parent.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/vc_majorthefts/cac/family-abductions


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

You know that she is continuing the A.

She has to prove to you that she has stopped the A.

She is still talking to him.

Ask her to prove to you that she never had sex with him.

See your attorney right away. get a recorder so that you can protect yourself from all her claims of abuse.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Let the poop hit the fan with OMW. 

If cake eating is a deal breaker for you, then separate from you WW. You are not being too harsh...she is still addicted to her affair partner. I'm afraid you can't stop that and she can't help herself right now. 

Do not file for divorce if you are doing it to stop her from continuing the affair, just take care of finances by seeing a lawyer,and help your kids through the roller coaster your WW has set you off on.

It's going to be a bumpy ride and a long haul...buckle up.

Keep posting, you will need the support this forum gives you.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Your wife says she is only talking to the OM after she has had an EA. At the very LEAST your wife is disrespecting you big time and any time a wife puts another man ahead of her husband it’s time for very serious actions. *Otherwise you will become a door mat, a drunk, bitter, or half a man*.

Do every thing legal you can to make her suffer for her disrespect even if means you have to lose something such as some money. No relationship will be worth a shyt if the wife or husband puts some opposite sex person ahead of their spouse. Your wife has done that TWICE that you now of.

*I know that you are very concerned about the children but ask yourself if you will be a better dad by allowing your wife to disrespect you.* Unless she makes 180 turn around quickly you had better get yourself in the best condition possible so that you a can be ready to have a life without her.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

I need to be schooled on why the statement, "you need to be willing to risk your marriage" is valid. When another man is fu-king your wife, you don't have a marriage.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

warshaw said:


> So I guess all those reality TV shows that depict one parent skipping out with the kids and the judge issuing an arrest warrant for the fleeing parent is all a bunch of nonsense. As well as all of those cases where they set up complicated raids to rescue children from foreign countries where they've been taken by one parent against the will of the other.
> 
> Thanks for clearing that up, I guess you can't believe everything you see on TV.
> 
> ...


I bolded the key part that was flying right over your head. Barring a court custody order, the father is one of two legal custodians and can decide to take the children anywhere he wants any time he wants.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> I need to be schooled on why the statement, "you need to be willing to risk your marriage" is valid. When another man is fu-king your wife, you don't have a marriage.


Now your just being pedantic. Its the language of accommodation speaking from the perspective of a doormat that is afraid to piss off his wife for fear she will forever cast him aside.

Oh never mind you're right.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

Okay, I am about to give you a bunch of opinions. You don't take your kids and go anywhere. You file for divorce, demand temporary custody, ask for exclusive use of the home pending final resolution, and point out that she's cheating with a man who carries a gun. Even if he's trustworthy, she now has access to it and who knows how she's gonna act. do this if scorched earth is your plan.

If you want a little tamer approach, then follow this. Don't take your kids and leave. Hire a lawyer and tell him to go hard to get you custody and the house. Let him/her do their thing. Hire the best lawyer that you can afford. This is probably the best advice.

When she asks you "why", you tell her that cheating is a deal breaker. If she does not fight twice as hard to get you back as she did to cheat and conceal it from you, then you know where you stand. Even then, if its a deal breaker, then don't waste time. Its torture on everyone involved.

Actually, if you need to circle the drain for a while, that's fine, too. In point of fact, whatever decision that you make and however you go about doing it in light of your situation that will be constantly evolving minute by minute, will be the best for you. Whenever you get off track and need some different and occasionally strident opinions to help you see different points of view, post here. (This last paragraph is how things will actually play out for you)


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Kissing=sex.
> 
> She hasn't stopped.
> 
> ...


I disagree with only the second sentence. I would say it has temporarily stopped. She was pushing toward the affair again, hoping to do it by slow increments so as not to give rise to suspicion.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> I disagree with only the second sentence. I would say it has temporarily stopped. She was pushing toward the affair again, hoping to do it by slow increments so as not to give rise to suspicion.


She may have temporarily put affair sex on the back burner but hasn't stopped the affair.

I'm sometimes unclear but we do agree. I meant the affair hadn't stopped.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Perhaps the shock of you filing for divorce might get her out of his influence?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Take away her safety net and watch her behavior change quick. 

It's amazing.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

I'm gonna make a "confession" of sorts to illustrate why you should force them to rely on each other in a conflict filled situation. Put another way: let me illustrate why forcing some reality into their lives where they have to see how "dependable" the other is will help you.

I once felt myself developing inappropriate feelings for a woman that I knew. She was very pretty and friendly. I know that I was having "thoughts" that were causing me to strongly consider crossing some boundaries. She seemed to be sending me the right "vibe". (pardon the constant use of quotation marks, I know its annoying). Anyway, we began flirting. Nothing over the top, more like one would do with a waitress in a diner who would be flirting for tips. I don't flirt with diner waitresses, but I have seen the back and forth that occurs, well below the creepy factor. Our flirting was constant. She radiated sensuality and I liked that. Honestly, we did cross a line with some of our conversations. No direct solicitation, more so, alluding to our individual prowess.

Anyway, I needed her to help me in a crisis that I was having. Nothing big was required on her part to help me. Maybe 2-3 hours over a few days. She absolutely crumbled. She was of such utter uselessness to me and was so self centered that she could not offer me any help. I mean she actually started telling me about her problems which were insignificant compared to the very real crisis that was happening for me. I should also add that she had always told me that if I ever needed her help that she would be there for me. Well, I saw her true colors. She was a selfish, self centered, unreliable b*tch. 

To paraphrase BB King, "The thrill was gone". I came to myself. I was playing around with my real relationship with THIS chick?! Never mind thick and thin, she could not help with thin. All it took was a little crisis and I saw her true colors. She had no shine, she was just oily and I was an idiot. I never flirted with her again! Business only. 

My point is that you may need to drop papers on your wife, publicly serve her and force her and cop buddy to have to rely on each other. Sorry for the long story, but I thought I would speak from personal experience rather than theory


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## Bigsho61 (Sep 10, 2015)

Hey everyone. Sorry I fell off the radar for a day or so. I was just really angry at everything. So I point blank asked my wife if she still spoke with him and she said no. Not anymore. Seeing the emails on her phone which were of a personal nature I forwarded them to me. Now she saw this later and called me on it. I didn't cover my tracks enough. On well. The dice have been cast. So I said I wanted to have them to show her that she was still being friendly with him. She got mad saying I need to trust her. I told her she cannot talk with him ever again. She tried to explain that there are no feelings there at all. That the dynamic of their relationship has changed. I continued to explain calmly to her that she can't speak with him. She got angry and had to go to her other job. We haven't said boo to each other for a few hrs. 

Now when she comes home I'm going to talk with her calmly about what is and isn't appropriate, which is zero contact. I am going to stick to my guns. And of nothing is resolved then I am going to keep up what I'm doing.

I've decided against scorched earth. I feel that mutually assured destruction is not something I want. I just needed to cool down. So now I'm calm, cool, collected and ready to deal with this.

Is reconciliation still a possibility? I don't know. I'm not sure what I want but until then I'm going to keep doing what I am doing. My kids are most important and my well being, and in that order. So as of now I'm going to wait and see. 

I'm waiting to do anything with the OMWs til I've got all my ducks in a row. And also, the Chief is a family friend. At one point I was a cop as well, but it wasn't to my liking and my father was a cop and knew him for years. I think that is points in my favor. When/if I do inform I will sit down to lunch with him. Also, I saw in their texts that they are afraid of what be will do when/if he finds out. Interesting I think.

Also seeing their texts they both ayltated back in April before I discovered the A that they were not interested in leaving their spouses. Also an interesting note. Cake eaters the both of them...

I want to thank you all for the support. Really without it I think I wouldn't be thinking straight. So let me extend out my deepest thanks people. You are all awesome. Now, time to wait and see what happens.

As always any and all advice is welcome.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

She wants you to trust her now??????

So she can continue her affair.

Nice if you can actually get someone to do that.

Get your evidence secured you'll need it.

Expose Expose Expose


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## Bigsho61 (Sep 10, 2015)

Yea it seems weird but understand this. I wasn't the greatest husband in the world. I was a world class drunk and years ago when we were dating did my fair share, and your share and her share of drugs. I've cleaned up and have been sober off of drugs for years and now sober from alcohol for a few months now. So with that stated take everything in perspective. Now I don't agree with this, but she feels we need to have trust in each other. She trusts me to be sober and I trust her to be faithful. Now the issue with that is I can't just flip a switch and trust her. And the same goes for her. 

Now I'm not buying the "trust me and I'll trust you" thing. I Can't and won't. So when she gets home in a few hours its something we need to talk about. 

Until then, I'm just going to be a squirrel gathering my acorns


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## warshaw (Jul 31, 2015)

Nucking Futs said:


> I bolded the key part that was flying right over your head. Barring a court custody order, the father is one of two legal custodians and can decide to take the children anywhere he wants any time he wants.


Nothing flew over my head, you are completely inaccurate in your reasoning and interpretation of the laws of this country regarding parental rights and parental kidnapping.

One legal custodian cannot take the children away from the other legal custodian without the other legal custodians consent. 

According to you, one parent can simply move with the children out of state or out of country and it's all well and good.

It's not.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Definitely sit down with her and tell her in the most earnest way that she "CANNOT" talk with the OM ever again.

Tell her you forbid it!


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## DoneWithHurting (Feb 4, 2015)

You cannot control her actions. But you can control yours. 
Tell her YOU have boundaries. One of them is she must go NC with OM.
If she cannot, then you cannot remain married. Period.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Looks like you are trying to rugsweep this.

You caught her out the first time. You outlayed your expectations no contact period.

Now you catch them again emailing and she tries to pass it off as friendship, missing him etc. Dude he got physical with your wife. No contact period.

At present she does not respect you. You can talk until your blue in the face. Unless she sees some real time consequences from you enforced upon her then your chances or reconciliation are zero.

You need to gain back resepect for yourself cause if you had any you would not tolerate it.

Sorry if i am coming on hard but believe me im on your side. And my own experience along with the many hundreads of stories here will tell you that you cant nice her out of this.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

Bigsho61 said:


> I want to thank you all for the support. Really without it I think *I wouldn't be thinking straight.* So let me extend out my deepest thanks people. You are all awesome. Now, time to wait and see what happens.
> 
> As always any and all advice is welcome.


"Thinking straight"... I don't think that you're quite there yet.


The problem with drawing a line in the sand is when you found out that she crossed it by starting to communicate with the OM again, you didn't really do that much about it.

What will you do if you catch her again? Have you spelled out to her what the consequences WILL BE? Are you prepared to actually FOLLOW THROUGH, if needed?

The way that she tried to explain away the re-contact with the OM that you called her out on, gives me the feeling that she would be open to more contact with him in the future.

So be prepared. I don't think that the potential for this to reoccur is going away anytime soon. Sorry.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

warshaw said:


> Nothing flew over my head, you are completely inaccurate in your reasoning and interpretation of the laws of this country regarding parental rights and parental kidnapping.
> 
> One legal custodian cannot take the children away from the other legal custodian without the other legal custodians consent.
> 
> ...


Nope, you're wrong again. Here, let me put the key part in red and large print so you won't miss it this time.

Barring a court custody order

Either parent can travel with the children without the other parents permission unless a judge has ordered otherwise. Thats the truth no matter how many cop dramas you've watched. That's also one of the reasons I'm so quick to suggest that people file for divorce early, so they can get the custody order preventing the children from being removed.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

warshaw said:


> One legal custodian cannot take the children away from the other legal custodian without the other legal custodians consent.


Of course they can't, "legally".

But it happens all the time.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Bigsho61 said:


> Hey everyone. Sorry I fell off the radar for a day or so. I was just really angry at everything. So I point blank asked my wife if she still spoke with him and she said no. Not anymore. Seeing the emails on her phone which were of a personal nature I forwarded them to me. Now she saw this later and called me on it. I didn't cover my tracks enough. On well. The dice have been cast. So I said I wanted to have them to show her that she was still being friendly with him. She got mad saying I need to trust her. I told her she cannot talk with him ever again. She tried to explain that there are no feelings there at all. That the dynamic of their relationship has changed. I continued to explain calmly to her that she can't speak with him. She got angry and had to go to her other job. We haven't said boo to each other for a few hrs.
> 
> Now when she comes home I'm going to talk with her calmly about what is and isn't appropriate, which is zero contact. I am going to stick to my guns. And of nothing is resolved then I am going to keep up what I'm doing.
> 
> ...


It is not necessarily scorched earth to expose.
I believe not exposing is a mistake and the affair could start back up again too easy if it really even stopped.

and the texts you mention indicate that there was more then just kissing and hugging.


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## Bigsho61 (Sep 10, 2015)

OK. So she came home and immediately started in with this self righteous anger about how I have no trust and I shouldn't have to snoop on her phone. Then she laid her punch card in front of me showing her times while at her second job. Then looked at me with her hands on her hips.

I calmly told her "thank you and I appreciate the punch card from your other job (with om)." She really wasn't sure what to do. I then told her to have a seat and calmly laid everything out for her. Told her about the emails and that I suspected she was still texting him. She swore up and down she wasn't. Then she tried multiple times to throw my drinking in my face. I told her "I'm sorry that's how you feel but right now we're not talking about that." You would have thought I grew elephant ears the way she looked at me.

I told her I don't trust her at all and that I was considering divorce. She got real quiet. I then laid out the new rules for her.

1. NC means NC. If I there are work related emails, I see them. 

2. She can either find a new job or I tell her chief about A

3. I tell OMW about A

4. Any attempt at breaking these rules results in a divorce.

So after telling her these she snapped. Started yelling and screaming about I was never treated this way when I was drinking. I told her that we weren't talking about this right now but could when we were finished. So then she said she didn't want hjs wife to find out. I askes why she was protecting him. She said that she was protecting his wife n daughter. She said why do you want to tear his family up? I said so its okay to tear ours apart? She didn't really day anything then.

So at the end, she tried to negotiate. I let her go, but then told her it's not a negotiation. She got mad and said she didn't care then. I asked what's your biggest fear? She said she doesn't wanna lose her job. Which I get. But doesn't change my path. 

So II didn't tell her this but I'm going to forensically scan her phone and get everything. The way I did it, the program isn't perfect so it has messed up some dates and times. So I don't want a chance at her trying to argue her way out. 

In short, if she doesn't follow the path, I'm leaving. Do I believe right now she's communicating with him about what happened? Yea. Especially about telling his wife. I'm not stopping at this point though. I'm kind of whatever to R. If it happens, it happens. I realized this last night. D is a definite possibility and I'm not scared. At some point there was a power shift. It's the only way to describe it. She is on her heels and I'm gonna keep advancing at this point to finish this out. 

I am going to tell their chief and the omw. I don't care about the outcome. When she was negotiating, I said fine, that I will sit down to speak with him in a public area. One to see if I could get him to admit to anything outright. Then I was going to have a friend drop the evidence off to his wife. Kind of like a last Get stuffed type of thing. I don't know.

For the first time since April I feel better. Not food, but better than I have.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Bigsho61 said:


> OK. So she came home and immediately started in with this self righteous anger about how I have no trust and I shouldn't have to snoop on her phone. Then she laid her punch card in front of me showing her times while at her second job. Then looked at me with her hands on her hips.
> 
> I calmly told her "thank you and I appreciate the punch card from your other job (with om)." She really wasn't sure what to do. I then told her to have a seat and calmly laid everything out for her. Told her about the emails and that I suspected she was still texting him. She swore up and down she wasn't. Then she tried multiple times to throw my drinking in my face. I told her "I'm sorry that's how you feel but right now we're not talking about that." You would have thought I grew elephant ears the way she looked at me.
> 
> ...


From now on DO NOT TELL your wife that you are going to tell OM's Wife.
your wife will now go and tell OM so he has a change to get his story straight with his wife..
They are going to make you out to be some crazy, alcoholic husband.

other then that I liked how you laid it out.

Now you are going to have to step up you spying because she may know you are seeing the texts.

Yes I would expose to chief and OMW as soon as possible now with some evidence.

They may not even loose their job, but I would still have her quit


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

Bigsho61. 

Good for you I think you are handling this better than most. Keep it up & Good luck. Hope everything turns out the way you want it to..


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Bigsho61
Expose today and stick to the facts that is the only chance you have in truly ending the affair.
Good luck.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

happy as a clam said:


> Of course they can't, "legally".
> 
> But it happens all the time.


Yes, they can, LEGALLY. I'm not using internet searches or google as an appeal to authority, I went through this garbage. The catch is the intent, which is another different can of worms.

It is even worse if you are an unmarried man and you were dumb enough to not pay child support and get in a custody order. I can get a bunch of links, but people will believe what they want. I'm out of this derail.


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## warshaw (Jul 31, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> Of course they can't, "legally".
> 
> But it happens all the time.


Yes, this is true.



Nucking Futs said:


> Nope, you're wrong again. Here, let me put the key part in red and large print so you won't miss it this time.





phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes, they can, LEGALLY. I'm not using internet searches or google as an appeal to authority, I went through this garbage. The catch is the intent, which is another different can of worms.


Here's a link to a source that says you're both wrong, and I won't insult your intelligence by putting it in big red font, however I did bold certain points to aid readability. philly acknowledges in his post that while not illegal, intent is a whole different can of worms, in other words, if the parent intends to kidnap the children then it's illegal, which is what I've been saying all along. 

http://www.womenslaw.org/laws_state_type.php?id=10738&state_code=GE

*If the other parent takes my children out of state, can s/he be charged with kidnapping?*

The answer to this question is very complicated and may depend on many different factors. The laws on parental kidnapping (also known as custodial interference) are different in each state. In some states, it may be against the law to take children out of state only if it violates a custody order or if there is an active custody case pending. *In other states, the act of taking the children out of state itself may not be illegal unless the parent conceals (hides) the children from the other parent.* Other factors that may be considered are whether the parents are married (and considered to have equal parental rights) or, in the case of unmarried parents, whether the father's paternity has been legally established. Also, there could be a big difference if the other parent is planning a brief visit out of state, a long absence, or if s/he is planning on moving out of state for a long time.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

warshaw said:


> Yes, this is true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Note the part of your post that I put in red. _ Nothing_ in what you posted states definitively that it's illegal for one parent to take his/her children out of state against the wishes of the other parent outside of court custody actions.

Now, just to help you out, I went through the states one by one on that site that you gave us and you know what, there is 1 state out of the 50 where it could be an issue. Arizona. That's it. So congratulations, you were 2% right and 98% wrong.

Here's the relevant part from the Arizona page:


> In Arizona, a person can be charged with the crime of custodial interference even _before_ there is a court order regarding legal decision-making and parenting time or if s/he has a joint legal decision-making order with the other parent if s/he takes, entices (persuades) or withholds any child from the other parent *and denies that parent access to any child.**


Note the bold part. Don't deny the other parent access to the child. If I lived in Arizona and wanted to take my kid out of state I'd do it, and if the kids mother contacted me for access I'd tell her where we were and say come on and visit.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Bigsho, 

Your wife's comment that the thing she is most afraid of is losing her job, made my blood run cold. You where right to refuse to discuss your alcholism. Yes, that is what got you here, it is not what is stopping you from moving forward as a couple. 

So she is in order if importance:

1. Most afraid if losing her job,
2. Hurting the OM family
3. Hurting the OM job.

Her family, you, not mentioned?

As to you trusting her in this situation, could she trust you hanging out at a bar or an open bar at a wedding? If I was you I would not trust myself in etheir situation and I would make dam sure I did not give her reason to be worried. It's called empathy, without your marriage is dead.

So what is the plan for life after the divorce? Get one, you don't need all the answers. But you need to make that first step mentally.


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## warshaw (Jul 31, 2015)

Nucking Futs said:


> So congratulations, you were 2% right and 98% wrong


Apology accepted.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

warshaw said:


> Apology accepted.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Very generous 2% NF. Since my issue happened in Arizona, lol, there are reason that specific website says consult an attorney and has an asterisk.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

JohnA said:


> Bigsho,
> 
> Your wife's comment that the thing she is most afraid of is losing her job, made my blood run cold. You where right to refuse to discuss your alcholism. Yes, that is what got you here, it is not what is stopping you from moving forward as a couple.
> 
> ...


This absolutely stood out to me.

Her own marriage and family didn't even make her priority list.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She told you that her biggest fear is losing her job for one of two reasons: either she no longer loves you and couldn't care less if she ever sees you again, or she has NO FEAR that you will actually do what you say you'll do. Only you can assess that. IIWY, I would ask a friend to follow her with a camera for a few days. See what happens. There's bound to be a meetup. If they don't catch anything, you can move forward with monitoring and preparing the evidence for the OMW. For the chief you just tell him; he knows you, he'll know you're telling the truth. Frankly, I'd just ask the chief to keep them separate, so you can see how it shakes out. You can always divorce later.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

EXPOSE!
EXPOSE!
EXPOSE!

It will bring it all to a head. And it will tell you what you need to know. Her true self will come out sooner than later.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Stop fighting.

Just leave.

If she wants you back, she'll try to prove she's worth it.

Stop trying to make her give the guy up. She's got to WANT to give him up. Otherwise even if she never talks to him again, you'll be dealing with the ghost of him forever.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

marduk said:


> Stop fighting.
> 
> Just leave.
> 
> ...


Listen...
you have to be willing to end the marriage in order to save it.
Are you willing to do this?
My last post here.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Fwiw an EA is just as damaging, and often more damaging to a marriage than a PA, esp on the wws part.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

At this point what do you have to loose? Your wife's respect? Go nuclear yesterday...


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## Dycedarg (Apr 17, 2014)

Hey Bigshot, I'm sorry about your situation. It sucks, plain and simple. I will be very forthcoming and concise in my observations.

The fact that she's angry that she is not allowed to retain a friendship with this man demonstrates two things:

1) She has no sense of the impact of her actions. Someone who understands the devastating effects of an affair would not bemoan the sacrifices they have to make in order to help repair. 

2) She's gone. She would straight up rather be with this other guy. You can fight and enforce rules, but the simple reality is that she would, if she could, be with this other person. You should not have to beg and plead in order to get someone to be faithful to you. You deserve better, and such a technique is impotent anyway. 

Some people have advised a very cold, somewhat silent front in this war, sometimes known as "the 180." I would recommend you view this as more of a litmus test, than some secret weapon to getting your wife back. The 180 does not necessarily win a spouse back, and was never intended as such, but rather shows you, in stark simplicity, where your spouse stands. 

And that is very valuable information. Again, I'm sorry you find yourself in this dilemma. It is a terrible situation no one should have to endure. Best of luck.


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