# Husb suddenly wants separation.. need help :(



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

I need help.
My husband asked for a separation 3 weeks ago.

We've been together for 6 years and married for just under 3 years. It hasn't always been easy, but we've had so many sweet times together. He is my best friend and I feel completely comfortable with him.
In the past year I've gone overseas 3 times for religious reasons, but he was always completely supportive because he knew how important it was for me to see my Guru who had cancer and recently departed, having a devastating effect on me. He even gave me money and encouraged me to do that because he knew how important it was to me.
But because of this our sex life has been near non existant. It's hard to even think of sex when feeling grief. I thought that he should understand and give me space during that time. I just needed love and hugs and for him to ask how I was feeling. He never asked, he just seemed to want to have sex. The more he pushed himself onto me the more I resented it. I know he just wanted to feel wanted though. I regreted that I could not give that to him at that time. I loved him so much that I even imagined him being with somone else that coudl satisfy him and make him feel wanted, just so that he woudl be happy. Anyway, so I shut him out physically and emotionally. There was alot I needed from him that I was not getting either, like a caring conversation. But he was always stuck in front of his computer playing games. Our whole relationship has been me looking at teh back of his head wile he sat at the computer playing online games with other people. It hurt me alot in the beggining but I learned to become independant and have fun on my own. This wouldnt have been such a problem except that instead of entertaining myself with movies, I began entertaining myself with chanting and reading spiritual books (due to my spiritual masters illness.) So he began to see the religion as a barrier between us or something that makes us too different, (even though I always tolerated his computer games which I have no interest in).
Anyway, so 2 days after I got back from India to see the tomb of my departed Guru, he announced he wants to seperate for no other reason other than 'feelings have changed,' 'we're too different,' and 'I dont feel the same.' He doesnt want to talk about it, he gets terribly mean if I try.

I have been in a deep well of depression ever since. I can not bear the thought of loosing my beloved. He was so sweet. I am constant remembering all of the nice things he has ever done for me, the way he used to look at me with eyes filled with love, and the way he used to need me, not long ago. I'm remembering how I neglected him, how I couldve showed much more appreciation when he did things for me, how I couldve made an effort to connect with him sexually and make him feel loved and sexy (instead of thinking I was just being used or objectified)
I feel like I have lost everything. I feel so regretful that I didnt cherish him enough and now he will never be there for me again. I thought he would always be there. He was my first love. I always trusted him with all my heart. I am also angry that he just suddenly decided this while I was away, that he is not willing to even try to work it out and that he chose a time when I had just lost someone dear to me to cancer. Not only that but a few days after he announced the separation my father almost died in a bike accident causing me to become even more emotional.

So I'm feeling very alone and vulnerable and I just want my gorgeous husband back. If things went back to normal I would make sure he knew every day how much I cherished him.
I've been living in the house still while he sleeps on the couch. I'm just hoping that if I stay and be as light and friendly as possible he will realise that he does still love me and that I'm here for him.
Another factor is that I fear he went into depression while I was overseas because he hadnt touched any food in the house, had heaps of pescription meds and had started drinking every day. (There was a period of 9 days when I couldnt contact him because I was in a little village so maybe that didnt help his state of mind, had lots of time to get bitter and think of reasons to leave) So I want to be here for him still and make sure he knows that I'm not abandoning him any more. He's like a different person now. He drinks every day and stays out late most. And it's so difficult because I'm always fighting the devastating feeling of living with a man who doesnt love me and probably, understandably wants to have exciting sex with other girls. I know I hurt him and I know he loved me just before I left. So I want to fix it. We've had so many amazing times together. But now it's like love never existed and I'm a stranger in my own home. He just wants to be friends but doesn't even treat me with the respect and affection he does to a friend.

Should I stick by and be the best person I can and see what happens? I know that it can be more amazing than ever if we're both willing. If I leave I will just feel bitter and resentful and want to die, and he will likely continue along a self destructive spiral as well. Can this be saved???


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Hi.

1. Is he having an affair?
2. Is the drinking new or does he have an alcohol problem?
3. How long were you gone for?
4. Do not chase after him right now. That is so important.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Thanks for responding Jellybeans.
1. I don't think he is. He said he isn't. But at this point I think he would if someone was after him.
2. He used to only drink on weekends but drinking every day, as soon as he gets home from work, is new.
3. I was gone for 5 weeks, and 2 months before that for 8 weeks. Email contact wasn't very lovey dovey.
4. Ok, so I have to give him space? I want him to know that I adore him though because he said the other day 'I just wanted you to want me.'


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

1. All cheaters say they aren't cheating, not to say he is, but that is fromt eh Cheating book 101
2. Drinking every day is a problem
3. Sounds like communication started breaking down a bit ago. 
4. This is the hardest one. Because it goes against everything you want. Thing is, when someone tells you they want out and want a separation and refuses to talk to you about waht the issue is and refuses counselling and gets defensive, yes, you give them space. Tell him you are willing to work on the marraige but respect his decision no matter what.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

But I can't respect his decision because I can't respect anyone who would ask a girl to marry him and them suddenly end it, no discussion, just because he feels different.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

The most loving thing you can do when someone wants to leave is to let them go.

My husband also pursued me hard, asked me to marry him, vowed to love me in front of many wedding guests, swore I was the only one for him and divorced me 2.5 weeks ago. It sucks but it happens every single day across the world.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Children die around the world every day but that doesn't make it any easier if your child dies. I need help. Do I stay around at this stage? Considering it was my neglect and absence that made him feel so bad about himself that he just wants to separate? I love him so much and I want to fight for this marriage. It's painful to be around him and it's painful to be away. I've been quite calm and friendly, except for last night I flipped out when I got home after being away to see my mangled dad in hospital, and he wasn't there when he said he would be there to talk to me about it. I cried and he hugged me but he is not there for me in the same way anymore. I felt so weak after, crying in front of him. Once it was a comfort.
He puts eyeliner on and makes himself look all pretty before he goes anywhere now. I longed for him to go to that effort for me. I said 'I like black nail polish,' and he said, 'whats that got to do with anything?' and I said, 'Oh, I wish you hadve done that for me,' and he's like 'well it's too late now isnt it!'
He just wants to go out and party and be single now, but he chose to be boring and married. I didnt suppress him. I longed to go out with him and dress awesome and have fun, but he wasnt interested. He just wanted to go out with friends and I never questioned him or acted jealous. But now I'm made to feel like the boring wife. I can't help feeling really ****ty. How do I detach from this but still attract him back and make him feel loved not more hurt by however I am.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

I thought I'd take the approach others do here and just document some things and see if anyone wants help.
When he came home from a party at about midnight last night I was woken up, he started cooking something for himself and I opened my bedroom door to ask if there was any panadol. He was very kind and friendly and asked if I wanted some food. He was intoxicated ofcourse so its easier for him to talk then. He was very talkative and nice, said we should have a 'friends dinner' tomorrow. He asked if he could give me a hug. I didnt hug back because I was wrapped in a blanket but I said thankyou and was easy going and friendly. He made me listen to an album he liked while he talked about the music. I went to sleep peacefully.

He's sleeps on the couch. I ask if he wants tea of coffee or breakfast in the morning. Sometime he accepts. A few times he has been aroused by my presence in the morning but then gets moody and asks me to go away. Sometimes it's like he wants me to take the lead, other times he doesn't want me to touch him. He's suffered too much rejection in the past from me. Either way, I'm too hurt to go there anyway.


----------



## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

He has been begging for your attention for years. HE is a physical touch person. He had no problem being supportive of you and your spiritual needs but he felt like he was being neglected. You said you couldn't be with him because your spiritual guru died. I don't mean this meanly but you being more upset about your spiritual guru's death then your spouses emotional needs (for some of us its not about the sex that is just the easies way to word its all the small touches as well) was probaly the last straw for him.

It doesn't seem like you have the gut feeling of he is cheating on me. Every story I have read on here the LS knew (but was in denial) about their WS.

I would suggest reading the five love languages by chapman. Very insightful low on the god heavy on the each other. You need to take a step back from the you and think about him. From your story it seems like he has been trying to be about the you. You never confronted him about the things that bothered you i.e. the video games, and you acted like him supporting you on your religous excurscions meant the world to you, but when you got back from them you weren't giving him what he directly told you he needed.

I agree about the not chasing. Instead take to heart what he has said the past few years. the lack of physical touch,(him initiating doesn't count that is him expressing love to you not the other way around) and start working on those things.If you want to save your marriage thats all you can do. Right now you can not grasp for him tell him its all a mistake or in any other way invalidate his feelings. These things will make it worse. All you can do is change for yourself using his critique as a guideline. Either he notices or he doesn't either way you walk away a better stronger person.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Thanks Niceguy.
But how do I work on the issue of lack of intimacy when I'm not allowed to touch him anymore? Thats the main thing I need to change, and I already have because it's all I can think about now! I have told him that I want to learn and grow from this and tried to say that I understand his perspective. I tried to say that I've learned that religion can alienate the other partner and that I didn't understand how much before, that it's so important not to let that become a barrier. But he keeps saying it's too late. Too late now. Feelings have changed.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Ok, so last night I decided to do something fun and went out to see a band with a male friend. As I was getting dressed up really gorgeous he did not ask anything, who I was meeting or anything. So I told him "I want there to be complete honesty between us so I want you to know that I'm going with a guy friend who I rarely see but there's absolutely nothing going on and I'm not looking, just in case you we're wondering." He was just like "yeah that's fine, it doesn't worry me. Even if you were going for a hook up it would be none of my business anyway." I was a bit hurt by that. I said something like "Well I wouldn't because we're still married and it would be wrong." He hesitated. "Don't you agree?" I asked. "I agree that it would be vastly inappropraite yes." 
So he doesnt think that we're married still? Anyway, he confirmed that there's no one he's interested in so I don't need to worry. It left me rather confused though. Maybe he's immature (27) and doesn't see separation as a process. He would never admit to his feelings anymore so I don't know if he still cares at all. A resentment comes out in almost every remark though, and always says subtle things to put me down. 
It's too much for me to try and interpret, I just know I miss him, I know how sweet and gentle he is deep down. The angry cold him terrifies me. He seems to be more tender towards me when I am visibly upset by this.
Going to be patient, keep love in my heart and stick around but I hope it's for the best. I want to come away from this loving him not hating him.


----------



## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Visiting guru once = good.
Visiting guru twice = annoying.
Visiting guru three times = no seriously, why is my wife into this guy more than me?

Cutting husband off from sex = husband loses love for wife.

Wife going on a date with a male friend = wife is going on a date with a male friend...


Suggest you try apologizing to him. See where that leads.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

^ Missmitch is a spammer. She has been posting that crap everyone.

Giuletta--Others may disagree but to me it sounds like he is cheating. Almost everything he is sayinhg and don't is indicative of this or rather, points in taht direction.

It is bad to withhold sex from your husband, that much is true. They start resenting women who do this.

But at the end of the day: he is telling you he wants out. His comment about you doing whatever you wand and he will do whatever he wants is VERY telling. Give him a lot of space right now.

DO NOT go out with other dudes and tell him. That will seriously make things worse.


----------



## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

IS there a WAH syndrome. THis to me sounds like the male equivalent. I kinda agree with Jellybeans about the OP but without you having the gut feeling it puts it into question.

As for giving him physical touches just walk by and lightly touch his shoulder. Make "accidental" touches and see how he responds to that.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

I wish I knew what all of these abbreviations meant! Whats a WAH syndrome?
No I don't think I have the gut feeling, there is a gut fear sometimes but it feels too bad to think that way! So maybe I'm denying it. He goes out with work friends, doesn't really say who though like he used to. I know that work chics like him.

It's so hard to know what to do about giving space because when I do, then it's more distant and akward between us because thats what caused this issue in the first place, me giving him too much space which mustve made him feel like I didnt care. Deep down I think he needs to know that I do care but doesnt want to have to need anything from me. Guess I have to find the balance between being a heartbroken emotional wreck and a distant ex spouse thats over it. 

I have been trying to figure out what I need as well and whether to save it, or let it go and see what the future brings, but I've increasingly realised that I must do everything I can for him because I love him unconditionally and deeply feel that we're meant to be together, there's just something I need to learn from this. I dreamed of him before I met him. Don't know if I should tell him these romantic things, I feel like writing a letter of gratitude for everything he has done for me, at some point.
Okay so I wont tell him about going out with other guys, not that I often do. He did sound disturbed previously when he asked what I'd do when I moved out and I said probably move in with this guy, and he was like "Thats a guy."


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

^ OP means Original Poster or Other Person (depending on context)

WAH - Walk away husband
WAW - Walk away wife

BTW, I never had the "gut" feeling until after he told me he cheated and then it started going off like crazy when I thought he hadnt cut it off. And I was right.

But as for the cheating... I nEVER EVER EVER suspected. And had he not told me, I would have never guessed.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Yep, I read the definition of WAW syndrome and it's definitely the opposite, I fit it totally! Reading 4 self help books at the moment.

I feel so uncomfortable around him now, he's like a stranger. Haven't tried talking about the relationship for a while because it makes me too nervous. Everything he says has a hostile tone even if it's in regard to something mondane like me not having heard of a band. I'm loosing hope. He did watch an anime show with me when I asked. Thats as much progress as we've made lately.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Giulietta said:


> Everything he says has a hostile tone even if it's in regard to something mondane like me not having heard of a band.


Another huge red flag.

Giuletta, read the book Love Must be Tough. You can get it at your library for free. It has great points in there.

The gist is, that when someone wants out, you let them go, don't hold them against their will. And respect yourself enough to know you deserve to be treated better and deserve to be in a relationship where BOTH partners are committed to making it work.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

I just read some reviews and half the people said it made the situation worse. I will let him go if I must but not before doing everything I can to be the best person I can and trying to save this. 

I don't believe hostility is a reg flad pointing towards adultery but rather the symptom of someone who has been extremely hurt and has put up a wall, as described in the WAW syndrome, where the suggested action to get through the wall is simply to act on a real level without ego. The easiest thing to do would be to just get out of here but that would be an egoic reaction. "He is hurting me, I don't deserve this." It's a massive test to stay here and learn not to react and not to take things personally but to give love without needing anything in return. Of course if this actually becomes a relationship again there has to be an exchange but from a platform of loving empathy, rather than one person doing all the work.

A New Earth by Ekhart Tolle has wonderful advice on acting on a real level, not reacting from a false sense of ego, not being hurt by other people, thats its only your own thoughts towards a situation that hurts, not holding onto past resentment etc, and the more you can interact from this platform of your true self the more you will get through to the essence of another person. So I'm practicing, don't know if I'm succeeding yet. It's a good lesson. It was being too absorbed in our own feelings of being neglected by each other that caused this in the first place.

I love this bastard so I won't leave him a bitter injured man if I can help it!


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Ok I think I should just move out asap. 
Talked, I cried. Alot. He's absolutely 100% certain about this. No going back. 

****ing flimsy love and marriage bull****.

I'm so angry but I just cry.

He says he's glad I didn't move out straight away. Great.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

DO NOT move out, Giu. 

The person who wants out of the marriage should be the one to leave. 

Don't cry in front of him anymore. It's time to get strong. And fast.

Next time you talk to him tell him "I understand that you want out of our marriage and while I married you for life, I will not hold you against your will. This is going to be tough but I will manage." And then tell him you are not going to move out because if he wants to end the marriage, he should b ethe one to leave.

THE WORST THING you can do in a situation like this is move out of your home--because guess waht--should youdivorce, it will look VERY bad on you. He can turn around later and say you abandoned him/deserted the marital home. Don't think he would say it? Girl, you would be surprised what waywards think/say.

He may not be cheating but *something* is definitely off. People don't generally turn their feelings off like that w/o something lurking in the background...


----------



## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

I concur with JB. Also that line she used I have personaly used well something close to it. Mine was "I will love you out the door. Iwill keep trying till those papers are signed, but once the divorce is official thats it. I am moving on in my life. I will not be your plan B when you are my plan." Really rocks them when they realize their sure bet isn't a sure bet anymore.


----------



## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> DO NOT move out, Giu.
> 
> The person who wants out of the marriage should be the one to leave.
> 
> ...


I think it's time to think of this the other way, like some of the earlier posters said. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's feeling as though _he's_ the one that was betrayed and that _he _can't take any more. In fact, that's exactly what I'd put my money on. I'd say that he didn't just all of a sudden turn his feelings off, but that after more than 5 months of separation in the last year while you were on your trips and then the lack of affection/connection (which for men is sex) when you were home....that would pretty much turn my feelings off too. 

No matter how supportive I may have started out being of these endeavors, after being married, but on my own for basically half a year, footing the bill and then being rejected repeatedly when you were around would have changed my viewpoint.

What happened, happened though, but as it stands now, if the whole model of dealing with infidelity is going to be applied to this situation, I'd switch the roles around. I'm certainly not saying that she was sleeping with the guru! But in this case, it seems pretty clear to me that he was the one sitting at home whereas Giulietta's time, feelings, emotions etc. were tied up somewhere else in a pretty intense way. I think she'll have to be the one to win him and his trust in the relationship back--not try to make him prove his innocence in all of this.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

You are right CO, and I absolutely understand how he must feel and part of my sadness is for him. I deeply regret not having made my darling feel treasured, the only person who has loved me. But I am trying my utmost best to be kind, loving and compassionate now, to appologise for my absent mindedness and he is being a complete a-hole. Seriously hurtful and rude. I didn't argue back, never do. Then he seems to become happy when I'm silenced by tears and expects me to be all friendly and watch something with him. It's a powerplay, I can see it now.

In the very first week I met him I told him that this is my religion and this is how important it is to me. He met my Guru (an 89 yr old extremely humble loving soul) a few times and expressed his gratitude after. Even came to India and it wasn't a problem. If there had been any indication that it was a problem for him I would never have married him. He always said 'I know you love God more than me and thats ok.' Which is part of the reason I married him. But this is all new. Something changed. It's like he has kept a bank account of everything negative I've ever done, never expressed discontent at the time, and is spewing it back at me now. Even bought up a random account of me ignoring some guy and how rude it was. Even positive things I've said he uses against me. All he remembers are reasons why he shouldnt love me. If I did the same for him I wouldve broken it off long ago. But I choose to love, choose to see the good. It has been a struggle sometimes, but the good is wonderful.

This harsh disposition is what gradually killed my desire for him over the years and now it will make it easy to let go altogether. He even said "Well you better put effort into the friendship!" Not acknowledging his part at all. Like I'm going to run after him desperately trying to be friends especially if he gets another girl.

Soooo, regarding moving out. Its a rental and he pays the rent. So I guess he just assumed I should go. Neither of us have assets.

Thanks JB and Niceguy for your continued input. It all helps. I just want to stop thinking about it though!


----------



## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

I know exactly what you mean, my husband and I were always very comfortable, even proud of how independent we were of each other...right up until we had nothing at all to say or do together and no real desire to try any more. 

It really wasn't my intent to place blame on you, I think that the nature of a forum like this though is to assume things like infidelity in every issue and I really don't think that's the road to start down here, you know?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

Have you tried asking him to write you a letter from his heart. Tell him to be open and honest. There will probaly be hurtful stuff in there some of it might be intentional some of it just might be him lashing out but don't dwell on the fact that he is hurting you instead listen to the things he points out and start working on them. Not nessicarly to win him back but at the very least the next man in your life will have a better woman beside him. Maybe he will notice the changes coming over you maybe he won't that has to be his choice. 

You obviously don't want a divorce you want to get back to actualyloving and more importantly respecting your husband, but you can't do things in the effort to change his mentality instead you have to do the actions truley for yourself and be honest with yourself that it is for you. You can't own his mistakes only your mistakes. Some of which you already know and are admitting to I am sure their others. We all make mistakes but you can either focus on his failings in the marriage or you can focus on your failings, you can only force the change in one person though.

For example in my case yes my wife has made mistakes, but I am not trying to fix the msitakes she made I am trying to fix mine. When she brings it up I encourage her to fix hers and I am supportive of it, but I can't force her hand in what it will take for reconcilliation. I must isntead find peace within myself and change for myself. If she stays with me great if she doesn't then I will be a better father and a better husband to whatever woman walks into my life when I am ready for another woman to walk in my life.

So ask him some non threatening questions about stuff like I know you aren't happy so I can have peace of mind would you mind writing down some things I did that made you unhapppy or didn't do and that made you unhappy. I want to become a better person and as you know many of my short comings I do not see it would help me to become a better person. After you ask that listen to him. Not the tone of his voice not his body language just listen to him and make the changes that you requested he tell you.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I can see your side of this, Co. When people start feeling neglected, they do check out. Especially if the neglect becomes a pattern. This happened in my marriage as well. 

I still think she should not be the one to move out. His hostility to me sounds like something is up though...


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Good advice Niceguy. I can only work on myself for myself, then everything will fall into place as it's meant to.

Don't know if he would write a letter or express anything openly and honestly yet. He's not into letters. Some of the things he has already told me and I can't demonstrate those changes unless I'm in a relationship. He said he doesnt believe people can change anyway.

I'm feeling okay for now. Detached from the outcome.
A surprising thing happened today. I sent him a link to a George Harrison song which expressed his feelings towards his spiritual master 'Stuck Inside a cloud.' I wrote 'George felt the same way about Prabhupada.. captures it well, except for the smoking part. Sorry it was alienating for you to witness those times. x'
At first I thought, oh no that will just make him more jealous. He probably wont even watch it.
Then today he sent a text saying 'Hiya, that George Harrison song was nice. I've always liked his work. It went some way to explaining the guru/disciple relationship so thanks for that. I'll be later again tonight but not sure when exactly.'
Might not sound much but it was a big step. I should have shared my whole self earlier on instead of just assuming he doesnt understand that part of me. Maybe being more open is an improvement I can make.

I'm not hoping for anything anymore. Just hoping that we will have kind, empathetic feelings towards each other, and that I will be able to be happy with whatever happens instead of trying to control what happens.

Another reason I might feel okay at the moment is that I've reconnected with an old friend online who looks like Alexander Skarsgard and who I used to have a teen crush on 10 years ago, so that might not be healthy! Who knows. *sigh*


----------



## KathyGriffinFan (Apr 4, 2011)

Giulietta said:


> Another reason I might feel okay at the moment is that I've reconnected with an old friend online who looks like Alexander Skarsgard and who I used to have a teen crush on 10 years ago, so that might not be healthy! Who knows. *sigh*


You use to have a crush on a dude that looks like Eric from True Blood (Alexander Skarsgard)...I know many o' women who still have a crush on 'em. He's hot.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Haha! Yes he is  If my lookalike friend who addresses me as 'Sweet' weren't on the other side of the world I would be over this so quickly! Seriously, when I first saw this guy at 18 I wanted to marry him. 
Anyway.. Swedish fantasies aside... should I move out, if he moves out I'm not going to be able to pay the rent anyway?


----------



## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

Giulietta said:


> Another reason I might feel okay at the moment is that I've reconnected with an old friend online who looks like Alexander Skarsgard and who I used to have a teen crush on 10 years ago, so that might not be healthy! Who knows. *sigh*


Come on Alexander is hot. I am a straight man and even I can openly admit he's a good looing guy. Just enough roughness mixed with suave. He's the dude that wears pink and makes every other guy want to go buy pink shirts.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Hahahaha! Thats brave Niceguy. Good to know that men think he's hot too. 

Just thinking of Alexander Skarsgard completely cures my condition


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

ZOMG. I love Vampire Eric (Alexander). He is definitely a hottie!

Giu...I would caution you to stay away from anyone right now who you could have "feelings" for. You are in a very vulnerable/emotional state and involving a third party isn't the answer.

Even if he does look like Skarsgard! LOL


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Giulietta said:


> should I move out, if he moves out I'm not going to be able to pay the rent anyway?


Absolutely not. He wants to end things, he acn go.

You need to start saving your $ and planning financially/practically.


----------



## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

Giulietta said:


> Hahahaha! Thats brave Niceguy. Good to know that men think he's hot too.
> 
> Just thinking of Alexander Skarsgard completely cures my condition


Its not brave it's being confident in my sexuality. I know what I like therefor I don't have to worry about commenting that something I don't like still looks nice. Plus what I like tends to like stuff like alexander so its a nice refrence point 

And I agree with JB take sometime foryourself before moving on to any friendships where you feel there can be somethingmore.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

I mean it's brave to buy a pink shirt  no seriously, most Aussie guys are afraid of admitting that another guy is hot, unless it's someone universally acceptable, like Johnny Depp.

You guys are right, I must be careful about getting too attached to someone else even if they're on the other side of the world and nothing can happen (yet). It's just been so nice talking to him! He probably charms all the ladies though.

Husb came home drunk last night wanting to talk, expressing how he couldn't bare it if I hated him because I was the only person he had loved. Then he went on a depressive, existential, anti-god rant for ages. How nothing matters. Then he started saying how much he hates my (religious) friends and theyre facebook activity! Really judgemental! I didn't get offended by any of it though. Don't want to be emotionally involved in his ups and downs. I'm feeling good at the moment but lets see where this rollercoaster goes next.


----------



## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

Well there is some of that feedback you were looking for. Yes he said it in a hostile way but he prettymuch told youhe hates how much time you spend on facebook with your religious friends. I understand him on that one. It's not the facebook or the religious friends its that he was wanting that type of attention as well. Start apoke war with on facebook, respond to his posts if he says anything, like the stuff that seems insightful or that he is sharing. Make him feel like he matters.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Don't know, I think he just hates religion and religious people and most people in general.. For year he's been sitting right next to me at his computer talking to his gamer friends instead of me. I've only just recently got friends (since travelling) who I keep in touch with on FB. So don't know how he could begrudge me that, since I would just be sitting by myself otherwise? I send him links to stuff he might like on FB sometimes. But he doesn't use it much beyond that. It's always been his character to criticize and complain, it's just worse now. As for the reason behind that, yeah it'd have to come from something that he's unhappy with. Might seem like I'm stalking him if I post stuff on his wall too often!


----------



## sad_and_lonely_2011 (May 1, 2011)

OMG..I feel like I'm reading my current situation almost to the letter. I've been with my husband for 8 years (married for 5) and he told me a month ago that he loves me, but not like he should love a wife. Right now, we're seperated, but he's not sure where it's headed. I still love him and want him back, but he says he's not willing to work on the relationship. We're both at fault for our marriage problems, but neither of us have cheated. Until a few days ago, I've done everything wrong. I was calling him every day just to hear his voice. I am really having problems being away from him and don't know how to handle it. I'm so afraid he won't miss me while I'm gone. I've stopped calling him and I'm hoping that will help, but I honestly don't know. I'm having problems dealing with it all. I haven't told my family yet. I'm trying to avoid it until I see what's going to happen. I wish you the best and fell your pain. If anyone has advise, I'd sure appreciate it.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Sad and Lonely, I'm sorry to hear that. Seems like the same story happens over and over around the world. I felt the same, being afraid of leaving in case he won't miss me. When it first happens, it feels like you're deeply in love all over again, except this time it's unrequited.
All you can do is be the best person you can, look inside yourself to see how you can learn and improve and hope he is doing the same. The moment I let go and realised I can't change his mind, I felt better. I havent actually moved out yet (because I'll have to go to my mums!) but I've somehow detached so I don't care how often he goes out or that he wants to be free, but I still love him and want the best for him. Don't know how my mind will swing in the future though! Like Jellybeans keeps saying, you have to let them go. Let him know that you love him and that you are willing to work on it though. I hope it works out for you.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Update: This is still going nowhere. A strange thing regarding facebook.. We both went out with our separate friends on the same afternoon. He got home before me. When I got home I discovered his facbook update was 'All of you. Get out of my life. Now. We weren't meant for each other.' I asked him if he was okay and he insisted it was just a thoughtless drunken update and deleted it later. I interpret it as him wanting me out of the house and out of his life. We've been getting along fine though, even laughing and joking sometimes. Since I don't feel I'm on the verge of tears around him anymore it's quite easy to be here still.

I'm afraid I have been talking to my long lost hot Swedish friend for hours online almost every night. Not about my marriage, but about everything else. I talk to lots of people but I feel I really connect with him! And he really loves talking to me and wishes we could meet again! This didn't happen until AFTER I decided to let go of my husband though and since he doesn't love me or want me around I don't feel bad about it. But yeah, still extremely vulnerable so should be careful about throwing around my feelings.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Stop it with the Swedish meatball (lol). Seriously. You are in a VERY vulnerable place right now adnd if someone even gives you a minor compliment, they are going to seem like the best thing since sliced bread to you.

You need to focus on the present. And chatting up other men while your marriage is deteriorating isn't the answer. 

As for your Hub--it sounds like he got reprimanded by his friends. Like they told him, "Hey Doofus--throwing your marriage away is a bad idea" and he lashed out at them.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

I had a weeks break from my husband at my mums house. It was really nice and I didn't even miss him. I woke up mildy sad once, remembering how sweet we used to be together sometimes. But there's no use wallowing in those thoughts because I've decided to detach and let him go. Too painful otherwise. I don;t want to go back to that pain. I think I've accepted that it's okay to let it go. I'm even excited about the future.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

My story doesn't have drama in it anymore does it? hehe. Well I'm hoping this feeling of having let go is genuine.

Update on my Swedish friend. I went a week without talking to him. Which is good because I was getting addicted and it was going too fast. But I spoke to him for 4 hours the other day and it's amazing. I've never had that kind of rapport with my husband (or anyone!) because we met based on physical attraction only and stayed together out of attachment and affection. He sent me an email (which surprised me, he mustve got it of my fb info) with a song that I might like attached. Which I thought was so sweet! After a couple of casual emails I ended up telling him my whole story but then felt embarrassed for being too open. But he was so sweet when I saw him online again! He understands that my heart was broken and needs time to heal.

Don't worry, neither of us are declaring our feelings for each other or anything like that, just that we really love talking to each other and he wishes I was closer so he could invite me over for tea! And he says I'm good at making him feel special  He is actually a really good match which is why I'm so obsessed over him. He looks very similar to me, (polar opposite to my dark moody husb) he is sweet, humble and considerate, and we are of the same religion and have the same guru. I really cant think of anyone in the world more suited. Except I have been married for 6 years and he has been a monk for 7! I keep entertaining fantasies that maybe fate will bring us together. I still remember the first time I saw him when my mum got a lift home with him, I was 17 and he was a gorgeous 20 yr old swedish backpacker. Then a couple of years later when I saw him again I dreamed about him constantly. But he became a celibate monk so I kept away and never thought of him again. But now we are both at a mature point in our lifes journey where timing is perfect. 

Even if I dont end up with him, I'm still so excited about the future, I dont think I could go back to being with my husband because he doesn't want to grow (and doesnt love me!). I always felt repressed being with him. He has never actually shown interest in me (besides physically) by asking about me, my life or what I'm thinking, he's alwasy just been there. Now that I've become more open I think it's time I have a more open partner, and that I will attract what is right for me.

Am I being an idiot??


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

So I heard that you have to be living apart for a year in Australia before you can file for divorce! Maybe that's why I need to move out. Anyone know anything about that?


----------



## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

sorry not an Aussie so no idea is the beating as long as not leaving a mark rumor true?


----------



## Nickitta (May 12, 2011)

> I have been in a deep well of depression ever since. I can not bear the thought of loosing my beloved. Can this be saved???


Right now you are in deep pain and you need to take a step back to get a clear view. You need to Identify and understand exactly what you want. Yes, your union can be saved. I am a living proof of this, as I was exactly in you shoes 3 years ago. But 1st think long and hard: if your husband was to come back to you, would you be happy for things to get back to what they were?


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

What is going on at home? Do you guys talk? Has anyone filed?
I am sure the hot swede is a nice distraction but plus don't get involved w/ anyone else at this time. You are not in a good place for that.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

We don't talk about anything serious, just about what zombie game he's currently playing or what he did that night. No one has filed. He just keeps bringing up the moving out topic. I've been giving him plenty of space. I think I'll move in a couple of weeks.

I am not in such a good place as I thought, I still feel sad sometimes, still feel affectionate if I look at him (as long as he's not being an *******). But I don't think I can go back. He definitely doesn't want to, and I don't think I can anymore either.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Oh god, I just had to tell my dad. He's sick in hospital for months so I didnt want to burden him with my bad news, but he asked how it was and I couldn't lie. He was sooooo concerned, told me to be more feminine! To keep trying to save it, convince him to go on a holiday alone together. But it's too late, I told him. I tried my best and he's made up his mind so I've had to step back and accept it. 

Now I'm feeling that the worst thing about divorce is the shame. The fear that other people will think it's my fault, that I wasn't a good enough wife. That I wasn't sweet and feminine enough to keep him interested in me! Even though he's the one than skipped out suddenly without the slightest effort to work on it. His parents still don't know. I don't want to face everyone's opinions. Still haven't changed out facebook status, not looking forward to that!


----------



## hesnothappy (Mar 5, 2011)

GM, Been there and done that ;o) I hope that kind of fear of accusation is normal. Mine has disappeared totally. I have been separated for almost 2 months. Just hold on, life does get better.


----------



## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

First, do not move out. See if you can file a separation agreement--for how expenses will be divided in the year before the divorce can be completed (if that is how it works). You don't have to file anything, just get the paperwork and have a discussion about all of it with your h.

Second, his criticisms may be his way of justifying an affair. Honestly, for a marriage to break down in 5 months seems a bit odd. He may have had resentment about your other commitments, etc., even before, but if he is bringing it up NOW, it may be that those things didn't bother him all that much until he met someone else, and then he believes YOU are the one at fault. I'm not saying he's wrong, but his hostility could be from his own guilt as much as resentment. And do not accept responsibility for "making" him feel depressed. You do not control his feelings; he does.

Honestly, I'd suggest that the FIRST thing that needs attention is his drinking. He's making depression worse if he's drinking!! And it's very risky if he is taking meds, too--it is just too easy for someone to have an accidental overdose and die when depressed and drinking. Not to scare you but to inform you--and him. You are still his wife so insist on helping him through this part as much as you can. At the very least, a joint visit to his doctor is in order to discuss the pills and drinking and to make sure H understands the risks he is taking, and that the doctor who prescribed is aware of the behaviors, too. You cannot likely do more than that, but try hard to make sure you at least do that one visit.

Finally, you really do need to cut off the OM (other man). You are deflecting the pain of the current situation with this new "drug," the emotional lift you get from having this friend. Maybe you won't even feel that bad w/o the chats; who knows? But your response to the pain of separation is classic--find someone to distract myself with!! The thing is, you need to focus yourself on going through this and building up the emotional tool kit for being alone, etc. You do NOT need distraction, espe. from another man. You need to do this for YOURSELF, because the "fun" and good feelings--which feel like a way of "treating" yourself and being kind to yourself--are, in the long run, preventing you from taking really good care of yourself. 

Good luck working through this; and do take care of yourself!


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Thanks for the advice my friends. I want to move out so I can move on completely. He's hardly home anymore which is highly uncharacteristic. Although I didn't have the gut feeling of an affair, I wouldn't be surprised, and I can't be bothered wasting energy worrying about it. It's true what you say Sister, things only suddenly became a problem. To suddenly want to leave with no chance to reconcile is strange indeed. And he seems to have the self opinion of being an a*hole now so maybe there is something in that.

He still drinks alot, dont know about the meds, but there's nothing I can do if he wont let me. I don't think he's depressed anymore, just a man that wants to be free and forget he was ever married.

I dont know if I would call my lovely friend the OM since I dont have any man now! He's sweet to everyone, but he says things like he finds himself looking forward to me. It's a drug for me indeed. I have other guy friends I talk to as well, one is going a bit far with his tantric meditation guidance, and it's so comforting to talk to people but I dont get excited by anyone else except my Swede friend, so he is the OM for me I guess. 

Still feeling emotion after telling my dad last night. Almost had a relapse of unbearable sadness, remembering old times. Husb is such a jerk now that he wont even let me talk to his parents. I want to thank them for being such nice parents in law, not just mysteriously disappear forever, doesnt seem very nice.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You could write his parents a letter when all is said and done and explain that you wanted to save the marriage but he did not and thank them for their kindness through your marriage etc. 

Re; your dad... yep talking about the reality of things definitely makes it come full circle and can be heart-wrenching.

Your feelings about not feeling good enough/feminine enough, etc... all normal. But remember, this isn't about YOU. You want the marriage, he is the one who wants out.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

I think I will have to do that Jellybeans.

Started packing. I have SO many pretty clothes that I never got to wear because he never took me out. 

Note to men: If you want your woman to want sex more often, take her out. This gives her opportunities to dress up gorgeously for you and feel incredibly sexy.


----------



## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

Giulietta said:


> Note to men: If you want your woman to want sex more often, take her out. This gives her opportunities to dress up gorgeously for you and feel incredibly sexy.


*note to women: When your man does take you out take the time to wear those sexy clothes he bought you both on top and bottom and show them to him later. At least till he is taking you out regularly 

Sorry had to I have tried taking my wife out she acts like a stick in the mud and does nothing if its me taking her out at which point I go why bother.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

^ That sucks.



Giulietta said:


> Note to men: If you want your woman to want sex more often, take her out. This gives her opportunities to dress up gorgeously for you and feel incredibly sexy.


I agree. Women love to be taken out and shown off! 

Giu, where are you moving to?


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Going to move to my mums unit near the beach. She will only be there half the time but still , it's going to be hard!. It's going to make me feel like a little girl again. Well my friend who was divorced at 28 had to live with her mum again for a while. Anyway, making plans to move overseas for a year or so. Need to get away and explore new career opportunities and new people. 
Moving out will really hit home I think. But what can I do? I still worry that he will be unhappy without me. Silly isnt it.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

The beach sounds nice! 
Don't feel bad abuot your life's journey. 
If I have learned anything in the past two yrs, it's that sometimes you think you're walking in one direction & and life throws you a curve ball and sends you straight down another path.


----------



## WomanScorned (May 8, 2011)

Exactly like my story, Giulietta, except we had been married for 18 years and suddenly he wanted out. You're not alone.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

It is sad to know that this story happens again and again over the world. I can't stand the way humans hurt each other, it's tragic.
I let a guy friend take me out to dinner tonight, but made it absolutely clear that it wasn't a date. I hope. The location was a surprise and turned out to be the place my husband used to take me in the early days of our relationship when we were sweethearts and he delighted in making me feel special. Made me want to cry. But I tried to be present with my friend as much as possible and listen to him, I wasn't much fun though!
H changed his FB status today, deleted his account so that he wouldnt get heaps of comments, then sent a text to all of his friends telling them that he deleted his FB and why and not to reply, so of course he got heaps of people texting and calling to see if he was okay. Attention seeker.
Now that I am a little aloof from the event, I get the gut feeling that he did something with a girl while I was away. I dont think he's had a relationship going though, just a one off maybe. And now I get teh gut feeling that something suspicious went on last night because he let me know that he wouldnt be coming home that night because he had a movie night. The next day he came home, changed his FB status to divorced, deleted his account altogether and crashed instead of going to work. Didn't tell me anything about his night like he usually does. 
Male friend I have spoken to say I can be pretty sure that he's done something for this to come about. Either way, who cares, we have changed and sweet love is gone forever, just a sad memory now.
Oh Well...


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Yep, all the signs are there.

My advice: get a lawyer fast. He's dead weight.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

I still havent moved out. It's been 2 months now. But he keeps urging me to. 

He came home really angry last night just because someone left a shopping trolley outside. When he calmed down he was somewhat nice again. When I asked if there anyone else he denied it and thought it was a ridiculous thing to ask. When I said at some point that it takes a year to get a divorce he was very rude and said 'That has no bearing on anything. You have a knack for bringing up irrelevant info.' (One of the many put downs I constantly endure) He wont let me take the fridge or bed which were gifted to us by his mum, I said he should help me buy a new one then. He was very reluctant. A few tears came to my eyes because we hadn't discussed the topic for a long time. I said it's a hard thing and I feel bad for what he mustve gone through to come to this decision. I said I will be okay but it's hard when I think about the past. He said he thinks I will be better off than him. I said he should go on a journey somewhere to open up the the universe and let random things happen, climb the himalayas or meet a gypsie in Romania. He thought it sounded like a good idea, maybe one day but he cant think of anywhere he wants to go. (He had the most sheltered narrow upbringing, barely went outdoors and still holds alot of tension because if it, which him a difficult partner to do stuff with or talk to about things.)

So I'm sad again, remembering how things were. I saw his brilliant, happy potential but it is gone, replaced by anger and hostility, he needs to find it on his own now.

Meanwhile I have no shortage of male attention. I have really nice friends, a sense of spiritual strength and hope for the future. But my self esteem and my heart will take some time to become healthy again. I don't truly think anyone will love me. Still talking to me Swede friend  We have some fun conversations and deep conversations, he always says how much he loves talking to me, how time flies when talking to me, how he would like to meet me again but I still don't think he could possibly like me.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

When do you move?

I wouldn't bring up asking if he's dating again. If he is, he prob won't tell you the truth.

Strength to you. You are getting through this eventhough it's hard


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Thanks Jellybeans, you are the most regular supporter on the forums 

Update: I've moved half my stuff out. The other day when he was talking about taking me off the health insurance plan he was SO mean, so mean he made me cry. I said, 'I wouldnt talk to anyone in the future like that if you want them to like you.' Then he immediately came over and gave me a hug for ages and said sorry profusely, saying that he is just worried about me because he cares. Confusing! Does he want to extract emotion out of me or something? I went away for the weekend, then last night we made nachos and watched a movie together, just in a detached friends way. 

My latino friend, who I think may like me also, keeps telling me that I should just get out because I am only prolonging the pain, making excuses to be there still, and punishing myself. 

He has been helping me alot, 
'as long as you see it as a loss, then there is nothing you can get from it
look as an experience
as something that gave you the oportunity to live and share with another human being
and that he reciprocated to your affection
and you felt appreciation for him
he is not bad, nor you
but this is part from the past, now there is the present you have to live
your present is to be single again, and to feel good about it.'

But I think I am becoming addicted to him as well now as he always tells me how he loves and supports me, plus he talks about romantic ideals alot.

I don't know how long I will take to recover, but staying around is probably prolonging pain isnt it? I'm afraid to leave this familiar environment. I like having him around even if he is just in another room and is often mean. But I don't like being too close in case I begin to feel attached again. I don't know what I'm meant to be doing anymore.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

I keep finding old love letters and cards and making the mistake of reading them. It's heartbreaking.

I am completely packing up and moving out. It feels very weird. He has been very nasty though, he is a completely different person to that sweet lover who wrote those letters. I guess he would've become increasingly like that if I had spent my life with him anyway. Because I see the utterly disrespectful and demeaning way his dad treats his mother and have often seen those traits in him, and they are at their worst now. (It's just that I like to only see the best in someone I love). So his harshness helps me let go. But I regret that I could not bring out the best him, that I let him down. I know I should not blame myself any more though. I was always kind, sweet and patient even if I lacked the passion he would've liked.

I'll tell you how it goes after I am out of the house. 

I have two overwhelmingly kind pillars of support, swedish dude, and latin dude. They are more than happy to give me their time and kindness. I'm trying not to simply transfer my attachment though, to become strong in myself. We'll see what happens in life next.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

When do you move out? 

While it's great to have pillars of support (especially in the form a hot latin and a hot swede), you need to focus on you right now. The distraction is nice, I am sure, but they both know you're really vulnerable right now and it's be a shame if they took or are taking advantage of that. 

Do you first.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

I moved out a few days ago, just have to go back to pick up a few more things and all the furniture.
The morning I was to leave, I asked him to come over to the couch I was sleeping on before he left to work. I gave him a hug goodbye and he hugged me. He looked so beautiful looking down at me. I let a few tears trickle down my cheek. He said "Dont be afraid of the future." His eyes became a little red and watery but he quickly changed the subject and left. 
Today I discovered that I've lost my wedding ring during the move. This was somewhat distressing, because even though I will never wear it again, I was attached to what it symbolised. It really has gone. It's a sign. To truly let it go. It's gone.

This isn't easy at all..


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Since I've left he keeps emailing me short messages asking how the cat is etc (it's like our child) but I really dont feel like communicating with him much or telling much about my weekend. Should I just keep replies short and punctual or not reply at all for days at a time?


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Giulietta said:


> Since I've left he keeps emailing me short messages asking how the cat is etc (it's like our child) but I really dont feel like communicating with him much or telling much about my weekend. Should I just keep replies short and punctual or not reply at all for days at a time?


I think you'd be better off giving him the cat and adopting a new one from a shelter. Maybe in return he will give you your 'lost' wedding ring back.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Hmm, I didnt even think of that. I never thought him to be a dishonest person but it is kinda weird that only that ring disappeared, though it is possible that it fell out. I wouldnt want to ask him because he'd get so offended.


----------



## sadand (Apr 2, 2011)

If I were you, I wouldn't even answer his requests for info on the cat. It seems to me it is just being manipulative. I asked my H for a break from communication and on the very first day, he sent an email and a text about something totally unimportant


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

I am packing up all the remaining stuff in the house and moving furniture on monday. I am completely, utterly devastated. I cried myself to sleep last night, and cried when I hugged him goodbye this morning, and cried when I found this beautiful poem he wrote me.
Even though he has been so rude and unkind, I still see the good, and remember how sweet he was. This requires so much strength I barely have.

My swedish friend wants to talk to me every day on skype now. He is a wonderful sweet gorgeous person. But I am in so much pain now. How do I let go completely and heal. It is not fair for any future partners to receive a damaged heart.

This is sooo hard.


----------



## hesnothappy (Mar 5, 2011)

Get you healthy and all the other good stuff waiting for you in life will fall into place. I am so happy for you that you are facing the end and the beginning of something so strong. Life ain't for the weak ;o) Have a wonderful day.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Thankyou 

Here is my latest update. I have completely and utterly moved out now. It was such a painful experience both physically and emotionally. H would not even be there to help because he didnt want to see my family, so it was only a few ladies lugging heavy furniture. I was on the verge of tears all day and have cried alot since. I feel strange and kinda surreal now. I can't even feel much connection when I talk to other people. I wake up in my new room with a horrible feeling and cry. But I guess it was just like ripping the scab of my healing wound, it hurts more but just needs time to heal again.

If anyone is reading these, please tell me what you think of our current exchanges.. is it healthy, or should I just not talk to him for a couple of months?

So I left him some chocolate and a note simply saying 'Thankyou for loving me.'

H: got your note and the chocolate. That was nice of you.

There's no need to thank me, you were never a chore and I don't regret out time together at all. You helped me grow as a person. Please don't forget that.

I won't be able to wire you that money as quickly as I'd hoped. Gas and Electricity is $300 plus I have to pay for the dermatologist and I have no idea how much that will cost 

Might have to wait until the end of the month before I can. Are yo ok to use the old one in the meantime?

Me: I know, love is never a chore  I want to thank you because I want to honour what we had, even though the ending is difficult to deal with. I never wanted to let you go. These last 3 months have been hard on me, especially moving out. But love is free so I must let you go. If there's anything you want to talk about, please feel free to approach me. 

I may have left a few bits and pieces behind. I tried to get everything. 
I'm ok using the old graphics tablet still, dont worry. talk to you soon.

take care


H: You only left a little bit really. A lot of it is just stuff we should have thrown away ages ago hehe

I did find a few things I figured you would probably want, a couple shirts etc. I'll give them to you when I see you next.

I'll always be ready to listen to you as well.

I'd like to hear about how your UK plans are going when I see you next. I think that's going to be an incredibly exciting chapter of your life. I really think you'll see some of your aspirations come to pass if you apply yourself there 

I'll let you know when I've sent the money. You'll have to show me the new tablet and stuff you've done on it since it's much better than your current one.

Stay safe and say hi to Mr cat for me.

....
Thats it so far... what do you think???


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Can anyone give me advice on what I should do now? Should I reply to him and make arrangements to see him again like he seems to indicate, or do the 180 and not reply or contact him but wait to see if he does. The thing is I dont think he will, he will just take it like I dont care at all like those times I went overseas and it may just justify the reason for his decision. I would like to be friends and have kind feelings towards him, but I dont want to see him and feel pain.


----------



## caughtdreaming (May 30, 2011)

Protect your emotional/mental well being. It will hurt a lot if he doesn't reach out to you, but it will benefit you in the long run. 

I keep doing the same thing to myself. Every time I go 2-3 days without talking to stbx I ruin it and end up msg him. It's back to square one every single time and it hurts. A lot. 

If I was strong enough and knew what was best for me I would quit doing this to myself.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Well I am too confused to try to interpret how he is feeling. I have been keeping contact minimal, not responding to his messages for at least 5 days. I havent had the urge to call him or anything because I DO want to prtoect my mental well being, and I need the time and space to digest this. 

But he just called and wanted to talk and asked if I was doing okay. He said it has been hard adjusting, everytime he hears the key in the door he thinks it is me. He wants to hang out soon, but indicated that he wanted me to take charge more and contact him to hang out. wtf? I told him he is the one that needs to do that more, because he is the one that asked me to leave, but I will be glad to hang out and be friends, although it will be weird at first. I told him I am doing okay, but it's not easy. He was like "I know, I'm sorry." I said, "Its ok, things happen in life." (why they happen I dont know!)

What do you think? What is my best course of action. To see him, but to protect myself emotionally and not hope that he wants me back? I feel bad for him too if he is regretting this because I love him and dont want him to feel pain. Can anyone offer some input from an outsider perspective?


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Hey Giu.

He sounds like a typical wayward. You were right to tell him to do all of the heavy lifting since he is the one who unilaterally decided the state of your marriage.

If you do meet with him, keep your emotions out of it and tell him what you need in order to have a relationship with him (if he's in fact wanting to reconcile). If he is just spewing BS (more than likely, he is) then tell him you're not interested and it's best to go your separate ways.

Do not let him play on your feelings and use you as an emotional crutch.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

I dont think he is going to express any desire to have me back. I think he does feel weird though not having me around, maybe even miss me, but he thinks its something he just has to adjust to. I have been keeping contact to bare minimum. I sent him a quick message asking where he wanted to go this weekend and he called straight away. I didn't hear the first time so when he called back he was extremely annoyed that I didn't answer the first time! So maybe this semi 180 thing is making him anxious. So he's going to take me to a restaurant this weekend for my birthday.

I know he doesnt want to get back together though, just wants me as a friend in his life. The fact that he called back after to see if he could take me off the health insurance yet confirms that. I am beyond hoping. Although I am still suffering the loss of the relationship, and remembering sweet times sometimes which makes me still shed a tear. The thought of going back is also terrifying. I'm begining to see how he wasnt good for me (I often felt this when together because he would always demean me and belittle me.) Sorry if Im repeating myself! Still confused and depressed about life.

Update on Swede friend, we talk on skype alot! As soon as he starts getting soft at the end though and talking about how much he enjoys our interactions, I quickly avoid the topic. So we're just good friends, that are extremely addicted to each other. I'm just taking life slow and trying to be open to a positive future. Planning to move overseas in a few months which is scary and exciting. Running away? Yes. But I need to. I need to be away from stressful family, friends and ex husbands. Plus I will get to visit my new friend.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Wow, moving overseas? Is it somewhere you've been before? 

How do you feel about seeing your ex for a birthday dinner if he has no intention of getting back together?


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Just got back. It was strange. We get along just fine, it was very pleasant and he was very nice. It felt so normal being with him. Then we went and cruised around an art gallery, again that felt so normal, but with an akwardly restrained undercurrent of pain, because I had to remind myself that we are not 'together' and that he is no longer mine. So it probably wasnt a good idea. I dont know what his plan is. Maybe he just wants me to see him as a nice guy and know that I still like him as a person so that I can still be his back up option. I cried a little on the way home.

yes, about the overseas move, its just something I thought I should throw myself into in order to allow movement in my life and open up to a better future, so I got the UK work visa just before it was too late. Havent booked or made any definite plans yet i guess in case something miraculous happened with H.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

So even though seeing him was pleasant, it took me a week to recover. In fact I still feel like I have regressed in my progress. Now I'm feeling alot of anger. I can't forgive him yet. I know it wasn't my fault now. 

I think he was attracted by other women, most likely even did something wrong, and was looking for excuses to back out, and blame it on me so he wouldnt feel like the bad guy for following his own whims and abandoning his wife during a difficult time.

I'm hoping this realisation will help the recovery process. Dont want to hate him, but I feel extreme distaste and a heartbreaking sense of betrayal when I think of him. 

My mum advises me not to hang out with him, he just wants to feel like a nice guy. My male friends all say that it's most likely something happened with someone while I was away. How long will it take to let go and get over the sense of abandonment.

I'm not head over heels in infatuation with swede now, that was just something my brain needed to do in order to not want to die. But it's so nice to have someone there to talk to since none of my friends ask how I am. I would have died of loneliness by now otherwise. It's funny how people treat you like someone died.


When I heard the lyrics to this song by Evanescence, I really related to it. Gotta stick to uplifting suff though!

Out on your own 
cold and alone again 
can this be what you really wanted, baby? 

Blame it on me 
set your guilt free 
nothing can hold you back now 

Now that you're gone 
I feel like myself again 
grieving the things I can't repair and willing...

To let you blame it on me 
and set your guilt free
I don't want to hold you back now love

I can't change who I am 
not this time, I won't lie to keep you near me
and in this short life,
there's no time to waste on giving up 
my love wasn't enough


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Giulietta said:


> I think he was attracted by other women, most likely even did something wrong, and was looking for excuses to back out, and blame it on me so he wouldnt feel like the bad guy for following his own whims and abandoning his wife during a difficult time.
> 
> I'm hoping this realisation will help the recovery process. Dont want to hate him, but I feel extreme distaste and a heartbreaking sense of betrayal when I think of him.
> 
> My male friends all say that it's most likely something happened with someone while I was away.


Why do you think someone happened with another woman(women)?

Your mum is right--stop hanging out with him. You're not emotionally ready to.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Jellybeans you should get some kind of award for being the most regular forum supporter. 

I would have to write an essay about why I think something happened with another woman.

Before I left everything was pretty sweet. When he told me he was going to some chics dress up party and was going to meet at some girls house to get a ride, I felt something wrong in my stomach. But I didnt say anything because I thought, well he will do whatever he does, he knows whats right. When I was overseas the emails in teh begining were sweet, he missed me and loved me etc. But I knew, the moment something changed. The tone of the emails were completely different. And it was around the time of this party. When I spoke to him on the phone just before I came back, I could tell he no longer loved me. So in a sense I was prepared for what was coming.

After he dumped me, he was so certain about it, never waivered for a moment. Would not let me even touch him. When I tried to I had the feeling it was because he had been with someone else, his body was no longer mine. 

When I looked back on his fb activity during the period I was overseas, his wall was full of work chics flirting and carrying on and he very much responded. (No such activity now strangely enough)

When I was living in the house still for 3 months, he often would come home really late or stay over night somewhere, never specifying who other than work friends. All very uncharacteristic. His voice would often sound akward when he would say what he was doing. He changed his status to single on fb just after one of these over nighters, which also gave me a feeling. When he went to work he would go to much effort to look great and even apply cologne, when previously he never gave a **** what he looked like at work. When he would go out he always tried to look awesome when he never went to effort with me. he drank constantly in the first month or so, perhaps as a way of not facing the guilt. He was hostile with no provocation, blaming me for everything, I think as a way of not feeling guilt. Also, after he announced separation he didnt consider us married anymore, which gave him free reign to do what he likes without it being 'wrong'. Something he said strongly indicated this. When we were together there was a time when I saw a photo of his carrying on extremely inappropriately with girls. I was upset but then forgot about it, always assuming the best, that he could never deliberately hurt me, he was just drunk, whatever. (He is now going to Nepal with this same girl!! When he would never go there with me!)

Now that I am gone he is extremely nice (not that I have much contact) and gave me more money that he said he would for an item I need, which is probably a guilt gift.

I have absolutely no evidence. This is just what I conclude after giving up the naive idea that my husband couldnt possibly do that to me. 

F*cker.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Ok that was just an anger stage. havent had much contact, ocassional email. He seems to want to chat alot about his life when he sends an email, I'm staying as kind as possible. I dont like being in contact because it still upsets me.

Anyway, he seems to want to give me money 'for my future' to follow my dreams etc. Why would this be and should I accept. Do you think its guilt money? He just wants to come across as a nice guy?


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

MAJOR THING JUST HAPPENED!!

I really need some advice if anyone want to contribute.

My STBX just called, he was really depressed and lonely, sounded like he was possibly even crying at times. He said this last week has been really hard, he's been worried about how I'm doing. He said he's always depressed and doesnt care about anything, doesnt care about work or his friends, people dont really understand him etc. His housemate is ok but he's lonely because it's not the same. he didnt realise how it was going to be when I moved out, he wasnt in a good state of mind at the time.

We spoke for quite a long time, it was kind of akward. His being this open is a first since that day he dumped me 5 months ago.

He wasnt asking to get back together but sounded very lonely and sad. He wants to support my trip overseas and hopes it will good for my career and feels it will be better for me. I didnt know what he wanted, but I tried to listen and be present and kind. I cried after.

What should I make of all this?


----------



## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

This is a very tragic story....

1. You placed your husband on the lowest priority in your life while you pursued your religion. I agree with AtholK's comment back in page one.
2. Your husband hasn't seen you in weeks and weeks, want's attention, and YOU dismiss him. Then you get angry at HIM and lose your attraction for HIM because of your grief. Understandable, but not the right way to go about showing your husband you love him, especially after being away for so long.
3. Up to this point, it's all been about YOU.

No wonder your husband feels this way. I think I would too. You've consistently shown him just at what level of priority you've given him throughout this entire ordeal.

BTW, your husband is most likely NOT having an affair. His reactions are very consistent with Passive Agressive behavior. Trust me. I know ALOT about PA behavior. I was a master. Very easy to "cure", but of course, I had to be the one that realized I HAD TO CHANGE. That part is not so easy. And your husband is so deep into his hurt and his PA cycle right now, he probably can't even see the forest through the trees.


4. Your husband is hurt, and using very childish PA behavior towards you. Basically, he wants to "show" you just how much he's been hurting. He want's to MAKE YOU UNDERSTAND from an emotional level just how it feels to be SO REJECTED by your mate. Again, this is very childish behaviour, but it's all he knows right now. I can determine from his interactions with you that he's both trying to make you "hurt" at the same level he is hurting, and to "punish" you for how you deprioritized him in this marriage. He's also trying to PROTECT his own emotional well being, which is why everything you say or do to show a bit of love towards him will be turned against you.

5. Every once in a while, he will through out "feelers", to see where you are "at" in this relationship. Comments he's made, the crying. The facebook incidents. All a very passive way of getting a response from you. It has nothing to do with him being an A$$hole, it's all he KNOWS to "show you" how much he's hurt. This is all done to get a response out of you. Again, very childish.

6. You get back from your trip. You reject him. He's gone Passive Agressive (PA) on you. He's mad. So, what do you do? You get all dolled up to go on a DATE with a male friend. Even if it was platonic, you basically reiterated the fact that you put more attention into others than him. Hence, him getting "dolled" up and going out. Remember how you felt about that incident, wishing he did that for you more? I can guarantee THAT is exactly what he felt that night, only more so, because he's still hurt that you deprioritize him so quickly.

7. You are angry. he's angry. He's stuck in a PA cycle that appears really deep seated in his soul right now. What do you do? Start up Emotional Affairs with ex boyfriends and long lost male friends TO MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER. Again, all about you.
If you think he doesn't see this, as innocent as you make it sound, your only fooling yourself. He will just dig a deeper trench in his emotional wellness and come out even stronger with his destructive PA cycle. In fact, it seems it's been a "tit for tat" cycle with him up onto this point. You get dolled up and go out. He does that. You lean on a male friend, getting feeling for him. I bet he's on that same path now too.

8. Moving out was both a good idea and NOT a good idea. There was NO affair going on with him. Just a seriously childish PA cycle that he couldn't get out of. He didn't want you to move out, IMO, he was bluffing. If you moved out, it confirmed to him you have no emotional investment in this marriage with him anymore. Staying would have shown him you love him and are committed to working this out.
however, MOVING out just gave him a kick in the head. I think he's starting to realize this, but only slightly. He seems to be having small inklings in his thoughts that maybe his "bluff" of terminating the marriage is getting a bit "old" now. But he started this train moving, and now he's realizing maybe he won't be able to stop the train anymore. Hence the crying and somewhat pleading cycle going on.

Guys don't break Passive Agressive cycles in their head unless they come to self realize just how childish and destructive this behavior is. Maybe he's getting there right now. Maybe not. But it needs to come from within him to change.

So, what do you do?
Tough call. 

1. Continue with the evolution of your EA, soon to be Physical. Write off your husband (you are already starting to rewrite you marriage history with your husband, I can see that in your writing, so you are well inside the affair FOG already). Get a divorce.

2. Both of you need to wake up. You need to decide whether you want to work on this marriage or not. If no, then thats fine. No one will judge you. If yes, then start working on it. Drop the EA your having with the swede. Sit your husband down. Tell him you have important things to say, and you would appreciate it if you could both act like adults right now, at least until this conversation is finished. Then, Tell your husband the ONLY way you are going to work on this marriage is for you both to go to councelling. You need Joint Marriage Councelling, but honestly, he really really really needs individual councelling first to understand how destructive his Passive Agressive behaviour is getting. Without him getting healing for his PA behaviour, MC will be tough.

3. Sit your husband down. Tell him it's over. Get a divorce.


(forgive my spelling. That was long winded and I'm not going back to proof read...  )


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Hey Giu--he wanted out and got and you left and now he's contacting you feeling sad.

I think staying in contact wtih him is doing you more damage than good. Listen to him and also express how you feel. In the end though, if he's made no comment to you or shown any effort to want your marriage for keeps, then you need to keep moving on.

The divorce was his choice. Not yours.


----------



## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

Thankyou Alphaomega for your detailed response.

Let me make some things clear though, 1. I never got angry at him. 
2. I did not want to move out, I had a deadline. He kept asking me when I was moving then arranged for his friend to move on a certain date and said I had to be out by then. He 100% wanted this.
I stayed around for as long as I could which was 3 months, tolerating the fact that he was never home, would often stay over night 'somewhere', was often harsh and swore at me for no reason, while I tried to remain there as kind as possible, making nice dinners and being there but in a way that he didnt feel like I was clingy or pressuring him. At first I did, I asked him if he would reconsider, cried, asked if he just needs time apart or if ts permanent and he made it 100% clear that it was a permanent irrevocable decision. This crushed me every time. I had to try to give up that hope. Yes I went out with a male friend one time in the whole 3 months (because I did not have any other friends! And I wanted him to see that Im not just religious, I still like to go out and look cool), but he was out every night getting dolled up. Still, when I had to leave I cried and said I still loved him. He didnt have to go through with it. So I had to learn to let go and tolerate the pain trusting that it will fade and life will go on.
It is a natural cycle for the rejected partner to blame every thing on ones self, and I still see what I could have done better and hate myself for it, but it takes two. If I keep thinking about what I couldve done, I will seriously want to kill myself. I wanted to follow the right path. So perhaps talking to guys online was not right. But I have been living completely on my own for two months now, an emotionally devastating experience after marriage, I have no friends that care what I'm going through, so having people online to talk to has saved my mental well being. And when I do get too infatuated I have the ability to observe that its just something that my brain needs to do in order to heal, so I dont take it seriosly and can pull back. I have been reading alot about what real love is too.

I am not going to continue destroying myself over this. It pains me that he is sad and perhaps 'coming to his senses' I do still love him. But the course has been set in action. With what I have gone through its not so easy to 'go back', unless it is an action of growth for both of us. Plus like Jellybeans says, he hasnt made an indication that he wants to work on us, I dont know what he wants.


----------



## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

True. Going back after all that hurt will be hard. That is what makes this so tragic. His massively passive aggressive ways just made things worse. Us passive aggressives are such babies. If only we knew how to grow up when it truly matters. You know, man up. Become real men for once.

I am glad you are finding some measure of peace in your soul, even through all that hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

