# Growing more and more confused



## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

I have been posting on a lot of boards, trying to get some clarification.
I am suspicious of infidelity, I have done as much detective work as I can-including smelling his clothes when he gets home late! Have come up with nothing. BUT.There is a woman at his work whom he has been confiding in about our marital issues...and he has always been extremely guarded with his cell phone. That is the one place I haven't snooped because it is aways always always glued to his hand. I am positive I would find evidence of SOMETHING in there, even if it were just inappropriately flirty texts.

He has asked for a separation and has moved out with his parents. His reasoning is that we have lost our spark, he isn't happy, and we don't click anymore. This is all truth, we have been struggling for a while. But my opinion would always be to work it out, even with infidelity. We have two young kids and I just wanted a chance to try.

He says that the door isn't closed on our marriage, that he just needs some time....I have been trying to be strong and not push or beg, but I did ask if there was a chance he would ever come back and he aid "of course."

But please shed some light on this.....am I plan B if an affair doesn't work out? At the very least I believe he wants a chance to live a "single life" if there isn't one specific woman. So if the jerk is going to be dating, do I even bother thinking he may come back? He says he wants to try counseling, on his own for now (I have been seeing someone and he asked to see my counsellor). I guess that is positive? Hard to know what's up, and I can't really ask him because whatever answer he gives I won't know if it's truth, or just trying to spare my feelings.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Don’t let him control the situation; he is making his bed so let him lie in it. 

Tell him you are not waiting on him and file for a D. If you “give him time” you will be enabling his A (and yea, there’s like a 99% he’s in one). You can stop the D at any time.

Take control and let him know you will just be fine without him. That will be the fastest way to wake him up bar none.

It’s really that easy. You do that and watch how quickly he changes his tune. Don’t let him dictate how this is going to go down.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

:


ArmyofJuan said:


> Don’t let him control the situation; he is making his bed so let him lie in it.
> 
> Tell him you are not waiting on him and file for a D. If you “give him time” you will be enabling his A (and yea, there’s like a 99% he’s in one). You can stop the D at any time.
> 
> ...


:iagree: 100% spot on..also read about the 180, will, help you to detach...he wants out, fine let him...dont cry, beg or plead with him..if you do you will look weak...


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

I am in Canada, so I can't file for divorce until we have been separated for one yea. Or unless I can prove an affair, and at this present moment I cannot really. It's just more gut feeling.

I will see a lawyer and discuss options. I don't want to alienate him, because we have two very small children who I don't want dragged into a mess. I will perhaps file for a legal separation- will that just anger him or would that be a wake up call? Is it still a good idea for him to see a counsellor?

His parents were extremely upset with him and told him to grow up and work things out with me....he is taking what they said seriously, but whether it makes a lasting impact I have no idea.

Through my snooping I have seen that since our decision to separate he has contacted a lot of old friends (some male, but a lot female) to reconnect. Which makes me think that there may not be one specific OW right now, but that he is planning on enjoying his "freedom".


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

I haven't cried or begged, I have been trying to be upbeat and positive and encouraging him to definitely take time to sort out his feelings....he knows the separation was not my solution, nor what in would want, but I have not tried much to stop him. He cried his eyes out the day he left, I did not. I hope I have been doing the right thing.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

ArmyofJuan said:


> Don’t let him control the situation; he is making his bed so let him lie in it.
> 
> Tell him you are not waiting on him and file for a D. If you “give him time” you will be enabling his A (and yea, there’s like a 99% he’s in one). You can stop the D at any time.
> 
> ...


This, do this.

Do not accept a separation as it is just an excuse to get you out of the way so he can indulge his affair.

Tell him if he leaves you file for divorce and then do it.

Start a 180 right now and don't let up until he comes clean about the OW 
, agrees to counseling and begins to work on the marriage.

What kind of phone does he have?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

You said his parents are pissed at him...do they know he might be invloved with another woman, could they help? if you exposed him to them.

affairs of any type thrive on secercy, chemical rush in the brain. cut off his fix!


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

He has agreed to counseling, in fact it was his idea to go. He knew I was going but I didn't offer for us to go together...and then out of the blue he said he wanted to see the counsellor I am seeing and could I set something up for him.
I am not convinced if there is actually another woman YET or just if he's hoping something will happen with one once he is no longer attached to me....I had started doing some 180 strategies 2 weeks ago after we initially discussed separating. I will start it again. I won't lie, I am 50% done with him and 50% want him back....one of his issues is that we don't connect like we used to, so not talking to him makes me a bit nervous. Last week we were taking a lot, like we did in the beginning of our relationship and he acknowledges that his feelings warmed for me a bit because of this. 

He has an iPhone.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

I have no hard evidence (yet) of an affair so I'm not sure if I can really expose anything to his parents....would it be weird to just say that I have a gut feeling? Or would that be wrong?


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## Love2326 (Oct 31, 2012)

If he wants to leave, let him leave. The only problem is, he will be tied to you until your children come of the appropriate age, so you'll have to learn to at least get along civilly with him. I'd suggest speaking to him ONLY about the children and arranging times to visit them. Don't let him know how you're doing, what you're doing, etc. He left, so he doesn't get to know these things about you. That's part of separation.

I would caution about filing for divorce unless you're really serious about it. If you mean it, say it. But don't say it just to scare him and try to trick him into coming back to you. That might come back and bite you in the butt!

As hard as it may be, you probably need some time to heal yourself and this time apart will probably do both of you some good. Yes, you will miss him and wish you could do all the things you used to do, but the marriage won't be fixed until both of you have had time to heal yourselves. So take that time and make the best of it. In time, you'll know what to do... It just takes time.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

Thanks, that is what I have been trying to do. He is so friendly and chatty when he sees me that I kind of get sucked in and am friendly too...but you are right, discussions about the kids only are probably the way to go.
It is hard to not feel like I brought this on myself....I am a difficult wife, I know this. I say mean things when I am angry and because of me our physical intimacy dwindled down to basically nothing. I feel some desperate need to right this wrong, even though I KNOW that it takes two to tango....I feel like I caused this. I drove him to someone else and our kids are so small, I feel like I have wrecked their family.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

MrsG84 said:


> I have no hard evidence (yet) of an affair so I'm not sure if I can really expose anything to his parents....would it be weird to just say that* I have a gut **feeling*? Or would that be wrong?


Always trust your gut, deep down, not your heart or your brain talking...

You said there is a wooman at work he confides in? red flag 1, he keeps his phone glued to him red flag 2, he's moving out red flag 3, no sex with you red flag 4, the biggest of them all...how many more?

Did he always guard his phone in the past or since he started mentioning this woman?


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

MrsG84 said:


> Thanks, that is what I have been trying to do. He is so friendly and chatty when he sees me that I kind of get sucked in and am friendly too...but you are right, discussions about the kids only are probably the way to go.
> It is hard to not feel like I brought this on myself....I am a difficult wife, I know this. I say mean things when I am angry and because of me our physical intimacy dwindled down to basically nothing. I feel some desperate need to right this wrong, even though I KNOW that it takes two to tango....I feel like I caused this. I drove him to someone else and our kids are so small, I feel like I have wrecked their family.


No way, no matter what you did or didnt do, its his choice to remain faithful or not...you didnt make him do anything..


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

He only mentioned the woman when we talked about separating, when I asked if he had told anybody. He has always been private about his phone. I know he sends flirty texts to his female friends. Not sexual, just friendly flirty. It's still wrong, I know.

I am sure there is someone else and I agree that those are all red flags. I'm just not sure if it would be right to tell his own family "he is having an affair" based on just those facts alone.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

He is following a typical pattern of a man who is either having an affair or planning on it. The moving out for time to think and get space usually means time and space to carry on with someone else. So, if that 50% that wants to try to salvage this is what you want to listen to, you should do what you can to investigate the relationship with the OW you suspect. Now that he's out of the house, they will probably be meeting up privately. If you can afford a PI, this might be useful at this point.

If the 50% that wants out is winning the day, just do the 180 and work on yourself so that you can move on.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

StrugglingHusband, thanks for that. But in my own head I just feel like "you are mean and miserable, you don't have sex, and you're surprised he met someone else?" I know you are right....I just can't see beyond my own faults right now.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

MrsG84 said:


> I have been posting on a lot of boards, trying to get some clarification.
> I am suspicious of infidelity, I have done as much detective work as I can-including smelling his clothes when he gets home late! Have come up with nothing. BUT.There is a woman at his work whom he has been confiding in about our marital issues...and he has always been extremely guarded with his cell phone. That is the one place I haven't snooped because it is aways always always glued to his hand. I am positive I would find evidence of SOMETHING in there, even if it were just inappropriately flirty texts.
> 
> He has asked for a separation and has moved out with his parents. His reasoning is that we have lost our spark, he isn't happy, and we don't click anymore. This is all truth, we have been struggling for a while. But my opinion would always be to work it out, even with infidelity. We have two young kids and I just wanted a chance to try.
> ...


*"There is a woman at his work whom he has been confiding in about our marital issues..."*

Big red flag.

*"he has always been extremely guarded with his cell phone."*

Another red flag.

*"He has asked for a separation and has moved out with his parents. His reasoning is that we have lost our spark, he isn't happy, and we don't click anymore"*

Also another red flag, unfortunately. Did he give you the ILYBINILWY (I love you, but I'm not in love with you) spiel?

His interest in counseling could be honest, or it could be an effort to appease his parents: _"I tried, Mom!"_.

Do you have a good relationship with the in-laws? Either way, go personally meet with the IL you feel closest to (or both) - take the kids, as well - and bluntly tell them you suspect their son is having an A. Even if they actually know something and won't tell you, just their reactions to your questions could be very telling. If they don't know of or suspect an A, they will likely start questioning your H about it (or watching his behavior more closely). 

If he is indeed in an A, his parents questions will make life there very uncomfortable for him.

BTW - if both of you end up in MC together - demand to see his iphone and it's contents (texts and call history). Do not mention his phone in advance or he will delete any incriminating evidence, if any. Since he always has it with him, he'll likely have it when he shows up for MC.

Wishing you the best.

edit to add: Listen intently to anything offered by alte Dame. She is old and wise.
..
.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

MrsG84 said:


> He only mentioned the woman when we talked about separating, when I asked if he had told anybody. He has always been private about his phone. I know he sends flirty texts to his female friends. Not sexual, just friendly flirty. It's still wrong, I know.
> 
> yep 100% wrong what married man sends "Flirty' texts to other women?
> 
> I am sure there is someone else and I agree that those are all red flags. I'm just not sure if it would be right to tell his own family "he is having an affair" based on just those facts alone.


You dont have to expose and dont unless your sure of it, but if you just give them the facts as you see them,(just the facts mam) do you think it may help?


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

MrsG84 said:


> StrugglingHusband, thanks for that. But in my own head I just feel like "you are mean and miserable, you don't have sex, and you're surprised he met someone else?" I know you are right....I just can't see beyond my own faults right now.



I'm right holy crap tell that to my wife..I was right about something :rofl:

read this link...will help you
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


you dont have to do anything this very second or day...take the time to sort it out in your head, others will be popping in with some good advice, read them, take away from them what will work for you and come up witha good plan..
first and foremost take care of yourself, you do matter, everyone has faults, nothing to be ashamed of there.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

I have a great relationship with the ILs which is why I'm kind of scared to voice my suspicions to them I think. I'm not sure how they will react if I accuse H of something, no matter how angry they are at him for leaving. My children are 11 months and 3 years old and I am just so stressed at there being friction amongst their family members.

This is all very confusing!
And I didn't get the ILYBINILWY speech- but he DID say he will aways love me as the mother of his children. LOL, just a version of the same I guess? Guess he gets points for originality.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

We get to 'like' things and 'share' things, but I wish there were an 'I feel your pain. I'm sorry' button here.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

MrsG84 said:


> I have a great relationship with the ILs which is why I'm kind of scared to voice my suspicions to them I think. I'm not sure how they will react if I accuse H of something, no matter how angry they are at him for leaving. My children are 11 months and 3 years old and I am just so stressed at there being friction amongst their family members.
> 
> This is all very confusing!
> And I didn't get the ILYBINILWY speech- but he DID say he will aways love me as the mother of his children. LOL, just a version of the same I guess? Guess he gets points for originality.


Ok, take some time...figure out what YOU want, nothing says you have to act this very second....please read the newbie link.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

Thanks alte Dame. I have great friends and family around me but I have never felt so sad and lonely in my whole life.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

I am slowly reading the newbie link, thank you.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

I hope I didn't come across as trying to bury my head in the sand. I am sure he is up to no good but in my own stressed brain I felt like maybe the degree of no good would make a difference- like maybe he's not actually having a PA but just THiNKING about having one. But it's all the same, I know that. It's still bad news for us either way. He is right that there are problems in our marriage, we both are aware of what the problems are....I just wanted the opportunity to work them out. I will have to try and make peace with the fact that I may not get to.

Thank you thank you thank you all for your advice and wisdom. Truly. Much appreciated.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

MrsG84 said:


> I have a great relationship with the ILs which is why I'm kind of scared to voice my suspicions to them I think. *I'm not sure how they will react if I accuse H of something,* no matter how angry they are at him for leaving. My children are 11 months and 3 years old and I am just so stressed at there being friction amongst their family members.
> 
> This is all very confusing!
> And I didn't get the ILYBINILWY speech- but he DID say he will aways love me as the mother of his children. LOL, just a version of the same I guess? Guess he gets points for originality.


Don't accuse him of anything - just honestly share your fears with them. 

*"I don't have any concrete evidence Mr/Mrs In-Law, I'm just afraid he's found someone else."*

.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

You are right, I think I would like to try and do that. I have been so worried that I've been looking like a doormat or a pushover. I need to get it out there that I have an eye on his wonky behaviour.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

MrsG84 said:


> You are right, I think I would like to try and do that. I have been so worried that I've been looking like a doormat or a pushover. I need to get it out there that I have an eye on his wonky behaviour.


Determining if there is another woman involved should be your top priority right now, imo. You need (and deserve) to know the truth. That's not being a doormat - that's taking control of the situation.

Another thing - there will be more eyes than just yours watching.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

I haven't really asked him, just made a lot of comments about how we will not be dating during this separation because that wouldn't be right...he agreed (twice) but I kind of knew that was BS. I think because I knew our marriage was on the rocks I kind of felt like I didn't need to know....because things were crap between us, if he was leaving for someone else it would be kind of justified. That is the wrong behaviour. Adults work their s**t out before just taking off. At least, that's my opinion. And I have been afraid that letting him call the shots, not questioning about an OW has made me look weak. I don't want to be weak anymore.

It couldn't hurt to have eyes on him. I sent his mom an email this morning just saying that I was sad but hopeful and she hasn't responded. I hope we can have a real conversation about this soon. H said she would appreciate hearing from me, but maybe not.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

An email isn't gonna cut it. 

You cannot pick up on verbal and physical clues via email. 

The email I'd like to see you send is: 
"Mrs. Inlaw, can I and your grandchildren come over for a chat today?"


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

MrsG84 said:


> .I had started doing some 180 strategies 2 weeks ago after we initially discussed separating. I will start it again. I won't lie, I am 50% done with him and 50% want him back....one of his issues is that we don't connect like we used to, so not talking to him makes me a bit nervous. Last week we were taking a lot, like we did in the beginning of our relationship and he acknowledges that his feelings warmed for me a bit because of this.


I understand your hesitation thinking a 180 might push him away and there is that risk but it's my experience that a 180 causes insecurity in your partner thinking that YOU are moving on without them.
This usually increases their interest in YOU and brings them back at least to some degree.
The times the 180 has pushed a partner away seem to me to be those times when that partner was utterly done with the relationship and couldn't care less about what their partners up to.

That said I`ll soon be getting the Lecture about the 180 not being intended to bring your partner back but instead being a way for you to move forward without them.
This is true but bringing them back is often a very nice side effect that can't be denied.




> He has an iPhone.


If you have access to his Apple ID and password I may be able to get you into his auto-back-up files if he's backing it up to a PC in your house.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

No I agree, but she has known that H was contemplating leaving for two weeks and I knew she knew but we never talked about it, just continued on as normal. I was just trying to break the ice on the separation topic first. I want to have a real chance with her in person.
H was at our(my) house last evening with the kids and told me his mom was incredibly unhappy about the whole situation and had forced him to sit down for a chat with her to discuss things....I asked if I should just call or email quickly to reassure her that the kids will be well taken care out, we have sorted out details amicably and OF COURSE I still consider her my family. And H said it couldn't hurt and that she would appreciate it. So that's why I just wanted to get a bit of dialogue going.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

MrsG84 said:


> I have no hard evidence (yet) of an affair so I'm not sure if I can really expose anything to his parents....would it be weird to just say that I have a gut feeling? Or would that be wrong?


Don't say a word about any possible affair to anyone (Including him) until you have some hard evidence.

It'll just make you look like the desperate crazy wife.

Edit:

You're getting advice to allow the separation in this thread..
I want to stress again this is a serious mistake.
You do not want to give him time, you want to put some pressure on him about your marriage.
Show him there are serious repercussions to his decisions.

Giving him time lets him eat cake and drag your heart all over the place.

Take control of this situation.
Divorce papers are one of the worlds most effective wake up calls and if the relationship doesn't work out you're already halfway to your own freedom and getting on with life.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

Yes 180 his butt, it will work. He's having fun right now, that has to stop. The hardest thing is acting like you are ok and will move on but it works. Play poker with him and don't show you cards.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

alte Dame said:


> He is following a typical pattern of a man who is either having an affair or planning on it. The moving out for time to think and get space usually means time and space to carry on with someone else. So, if that 50% that wants to try to salvage this is what you want to listen to, you should do what you can to investigate the relationship with the OW you suspect. Now that he's out of the house, they will probably be meeting up privately. If you can afford a PI, this might be useful at this point.
> 
> If the 50% that wants out is winning the day, just do the 180 and work on yourself so that you can move on.


This is why you do not want to allow a separation.

Don't allow him to window shop while you sit on a back burner just waiting for him.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

I don't know anything about an apple password or anything like that, unfortunately.
I want to do the 180 for me, truly. My kids are little and I need to be in the best frame of mind. I cannot sit and cry all day.
That said, there is a small part of me that feels like I got into a vortex of just All Mommy All The Time and I would like a chance to show H that I can still be the happy, fun, confident wife he had before....he may still reject me that way, but at least I will feel like I tried.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

MrsG – his behavior says you are in the way. The evidence will come.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

MrsG84 said:


> I had started doing some 180 strategies 2 weeks ago after we initially discussed separating. I will start it again. I won't lie, I am 50% done with him and 50% want him back....


you need to be 100% or he will continue to play his game. he made a move, don't play along..


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

Tacoma, he has already left. I did my best to stop him-no begging or tears, just acting happy and pleasant, being my best self. I said i wanted him to stay, but he said he wasn't sure what he wanted. So I distanced myself a bit and he actually warmed to me quite a bit. He stayed in the house two full weeks after saying he wanted to leave, even initiating affection between us. But a few days ago he got moody and distant again and acknowledged that while things were better between us he still felt confused and like he needed some space. At that point I kind of felt like I was being played, so I let him go. He has agreed to start IC and that is where we are now.

In your opinion what should I do now?


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

Southernsurf I do agree with you. I have believed since our initial conversation that he either currently has something on the go, or is looking to start something. While I truly don't abide cheating our marriage wasn't in the best shape and I felt a bit like I couldn't blame him for having one foot out the door....I started IC so I could change some of my ways of thinking. I don't want to be married to a cheater, but I felt a bit like in this case the infidelity is a symptom of a larger illness that I wanted to fix.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

age and years together?


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

29, 9 years together and 5 years married. I know the age plays a factor.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

Like Tacoma this is what I was trying to say. He separated because you are in his way. Either the affair has already started or is getting ready. Stop him cold with a 180 landslide, its seems risky but you have no choice – let him know that any move he makes could be irreversible. Make him think!! Its easy to miss the red flags trust me. Take control now any way you can.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

you are young, take control, its difficult but you have to.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

MrsG84 said:


> Tacoma, he has already left. I did my best to stop him-no begging or tears, just acting happy and pleasant, being my best self. I said i wanted him to stay, but he said he wasn't sure what he wanted. So I distanced myself a bit and he actually warmed to me quite a bit. He stayed in the house two full weeks after saying he wanted to leave, even initiating affection between us. But a few days ago he got moody and distant again and acknowledged that while things were better between us he still felt confused and like he needed some space. At that point I kind of felt like I was being played, so I let him go. He has agreed to start IC and that is where we are now.
> 
> In your opinion what should I do now?


Here's the hard part for me.

I'd have him served divorce papers but I`m just a stranger on the internet.

The hard part is he's being nice to you now, he's more open at first when he moves out and you start to believe it's turning around for you.
It's not though, he's just been freed, and it was much easier than he imagined it was going to be.
Trust me he played this through in his head a million times.
Now he's feeling a bit guilty over you but that's going to stop once he is able to get close to someone if he hasn't already.
He's at the very least looking, you know that.

Any positive you think you're getting from him won't last and it'll be too late when you see it happen.

I'd have him served papers for many reasons...

-It'll light a fire under his ass as in the ""OMFG what the hell am I doing she's already moving on from me!!" kinda fire.
It's going to make him question his choices and hard.
Every human who has D papers handed to them has spent some time thinking "WTF am I doing?"

-You need to assert yourself, you don't deserve this crap at all.
What makes him think he can just walk out and go shopping while you wait patiently for him to decide if he wants you?
You need to get some respect from him quickly because right now he's thinking you're his back up plan.

-If it doesn't work out and he ends up leaving you you're already set to get on with a new life.
You don't have to file the papers, just have him served.
You can stop the process at any time prior to a judge actually signing those papers.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

I saw the red flags and- get ready this is terrible- almost understood why he would want to have an affair because our marriage was pretty dead. I got into IC right away because I realize how wrong wrong wrong those thoughts are. But that is why I am so hell bent on trying to fix our issues, because we kind of just neglected our marriage and it deteriorated. I felt like with proper care we could fix it. Maybe we cannot.

Typing this out makes me look like a world class idiot and H a world class a*hole. I promise you we are nice, normal people! Well, I am anyways  I just never wanted to be divorced, I think I am having desperate thoughts because I really believe in marriage an being a family.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

tacoma said:


> Here's the hard part for me.
> 
> I'd have him served divorce papers but I`m just a stranger on the internet.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

OK Tacoma, yes, this is kind of where I'm at. In the moment when we are talking and being friendly I feel like I have this under control...then in the light of day I start to have concerns with his behaviour and what I am allowing him to get away with. This is why I am confused, I want the chance to fix our marriage but I also want to show him that I am not just waiting in the wings happily ignorant to whatever he is doing. I am concerned that I may be allowing him to carry on a very selfish and immature lifestyle.

I don't know if I can just serve him divorce papers, but I can consult a lawyer. It's possible just formalizing separation plans might stop him in his tracks a bit.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

MrsG84 said:


> OK Tacoma, yes, this is kind of where I'm at. In the moment when we are talking and being friendly I feel like I have this under control...then in the light of day I start to have concerns with his behaviour and what I am allowing him to get away with. This is why I am confused, I want the chance to fix our marriage but I also want to show him that I am not just waiting in the wings happily ignorant to whatever he is doing. I am concerned that I may be allowing him to carry on a very selfish and immature lifestyle.


He can't help you with any of that.
He doesn't know what he's doing or why and anything he tells you is bound to be a lie even if unintentional.
This is why it's hard.



> I don't know if I can just serve him divorce papers, but I can consult a lawyer. It's possible just formalizing separation plans might stop him in his tracks a bit.


Good, consult a lawyer and ask him about writing up papers and the entire process so you know exactly how it goes down in your state. (Assuming USA)
Even if you don't have him write them up ask him how long it would take from the moment he wrote them up to when your H would be served.
It's good info.

Tell your H you're seeing a lawyer because you need to protect yourself since you have no clue what he's doing.
That itself might be enough to jolt him out of his fog.
Tell your H you're moving on and until he commits to you you can't promise him anything, why would you?

Don't be plan B MrsG.
Whatever you do, take back control and take it back quickly and undeniably.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

Do you think discussing things with his parents may also help? I can't probably make any blanket statements like "he is having an affair" because there isn't really any rock-solid proof. I mean there are definitely a lot of signs but no concrete evidence that he couldn't refute, if that makes sense.

He is living with his parents so if he's creeping into their house at 4am I kind of like the idea that it would raise their eyebrows a bit....
He is being so sweet and kind to me, but I know he will lie to protect himself. It is pointless for anyone to ask if he is seeing anyone because he won't tell the truth, I know this. Hence I have not asked him myself.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

Just someone promise me that this gets better!! I can't believe how awful I feel, even though things were really cruddy between us....I was in my own with the two kids a lot, so there isn't even going to be that much of a change. But I feel so sad and like how did everyone else in the world get a successful marriage but me?!


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## Patswife (Feb 22, 2013)

Don't be a fool. I listened to my h tell me time and time again that nothing physical was happening, that he was enjoying talking with an old friend from the past - haha. I was stupid and believed him. I researched emotional affairs, they all said the same thing - your an idiot if you think he's not sleeping with her. Do you homework. I had to call and get the phone records, and with proof in my hands I confronted him first then his folks, and then anyone who would listen. Then I called her and we had a nice chat about what had been going on. She did not admit for a long time, but throwing her under the bus and blaming her for it all finally made her snap and give him up. I felt better, she felt better, and he was outed. Do not let it go until you know the truth. Good luck


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

Thank you all, reading and writing has made things a bit more clear in my mind.
My H is not very organized and doesn't put much thought and planning into decisions....he has left movies, TONS of clothes and a lot of personal belongings here at our (MY!) house. I am thinking I will pack it all up for him to take next time he comes to see the kids.
That kind of reeks of plan b, yes? I was very uncomfortable with him doing that because it feels like he is trying to keep a home here....


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

Since it is an anonymous forum, would you mind elaborating on the issues you had in your marriage leading up to this point?

You seem to hold a sizable amount of guilt for your role in it and I wonder if maybe this is an indication that you abused him in various ways that wives sometimes do in an unbalanced manner. Were you decidedly more aggressive in the fights? Were you decidedly meaner? Did you sort of break his spirit? Did you ever initiate violence (hit, slap, pinch, throw objects - very common for young women in relationships actually yet not discussed). 

Could it be that he is an abused husband, a status for which there is generally no support, no sympathy and no outlet?


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

Honestly, yes, I was mean. Never hit him or have thrown things or even slammed doors or stormed away...never even really called names, but I get mad about stuff a lot. I wouldn't stand and scream in his face for 10 mins straight but yelling for a few seconds is just as bad.

Some of it was warranted and he knows that. He is a bit selfish and self-absorbed and I felt disappointed in him a lot. But that is no excuse for nasty behaviour, which is why I started IC.

I'm not sure if that makes him an abused husband, but I do take responsibility for the fact that he probably didn't love being at home all the time.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

He is very bad wity h money and has got us in trouble a few times. He isn't very connected to the family, even though he loves our kids a lot....he would rather sit and play video games instead of giving a bath or changing a diaper. 

But we also had a very lacking sex life, also probably mostly on my part. He works a lot of odd hours but it wouldn't have killed me to wait up until 1am for him every so often. I just started to feel so lonely...he was not around to help with kids, the house, nothing. He stopped feeling like my partner and started feeling just like a roomie. Again, that does not ever excuse being mean and angry. I just wanted to explain further.


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

Okay. Well that's good. I only asked because that could have made him even more resentful if you were over the top nasty. It doesn't sound like you were to be honest (or maybe I'm just skewed cause at certain points in our marriage, my wife's behaviour has been so much worse than what you described and I started to resent her for it). This is probably something she needs IC for but she is the type of person that is as stubborn as a mule and won't admit to her own faults or submit to anyone or anything. It didn't break me though and it has actually made me a stronger person and have learnt over the years how to put her in her place without losing control of MY emotions. Anyway...

I think you guys might have a shot. Maybe his IC will help him. Maybe he is unhappy with himself as much as he is with his relationship with you and is looking for validation elsewhere .. a bit of the self-pity routine. What do you think? 

If you find out that he is not cheating and not pursuing any specific relationship than maybe you should have an honest conversation about having a specific plan to heal, move forward and make the decision to reconcile or split within a specific time frame. Tell him you don't want to be stuck in limbo and that he needs to give you a specific time frame for this separation (say 2 months). After that he has to make a decision. also, if he decides to date anyone you must make it clear that you view this as cheating regardless of what he thinks and will result in divorce and the loss of you as a friend. You can only remain friends if he has the integrity to end it without cheating.

A 2-3 month separation with no infidelity worked well for my in-laws actually.. so it CAN help but I don't know what the experts say.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

HappyHusband I hope you are right-and now I am crying because my worst fear is that I drove him away with my bad behaviour. I don't think I did anything horrific, but I do think I turned into kind of a baggy b***h. I apologized and apologized to him and he admits that it takes 2 to tango, but in the back of my mind is always this little voice whispering "you did this." I felt neglected and letdown a lot but I'm sure he did too....we just never really had a chance to sit and hash out our issues. I hope IC helps him. He is very passive aggressive and doesn't let on when he's angry....but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that crusty wife=unhappy husband.

I have no doubt that his eye is on someone. That is probably a fact. I think it's wrong to go outside your marriage just because the marriage is struggling...I would want to work on it first. But maybe he thought it was hopeless....

Haha just reading this thread you can see how all over the place I am about this. So so so hard.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

That should have said naggy b***h up above.


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

Really sorry to hear this. You and I are the same age and I also have two small kids. I don't think you should feel you need to take all the responsibility for the break down in the marriage. He seems like he reasonable and willing to accept his part in it from what you say. And might I add that when it comes to wives, naggy is par for the course  LOL. 

Does he have any close friends that are also friends to the marriage who can help him see the light and keep him from throwing away his chance at a complete and happy family? 

Oh one other thing. This may seem superficial but if you can make yourself sexier by working out, updating your wardrobe a touch, this could have a big effect on him. It shouldn't matter but I think it ultimately does. Instinct is powerful.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

His best friend kind of thrives on drama so I hate to say it but I am sure he is loving the whole situation and getting to be H's support system. I don't hold out much hope that he is being any kind of voice of reason.
The best bet is H's mom, who sounds like she was really against this whole thing. She actually did tell him that all marriages have ups and downs and that you don't just bail when things get rough....So that's good, anyways.

Also, when we were in limbo a bit last week I dyed my hair. H was shocked. And I think he liked it, he asked about a hundred times "what made you decide to do that?" And I just answered "it was time for a change."  plus it made me feel better about myself. I will continue these improvements along the way. Any little bit extra of self-esteem I could probably use!!


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