# Trip Away



## ATeacher

Both my spouse and I are teachers. We have a 6-year-old and a 9-year-old. My spouse and I work at the same school and have the same Spring Break off - with our kids. We've always spent Spring Break together - we haven't done much, but we've been together.

My spouse decided to spend this Spring Break with a tour of students in Costa Rica for 9 days. No extra pay, no "directive" from administration, just a choice. A choice I find odd since I'd imagine that wanting to be with family - especially at this age - should be paramount. Is this something I should just shrug about and go on, or is this something that's a signal of something else?

Thanks in advance


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## DustyDog

I'd say she's taking the teaching job seriously and trying to broaden her world-view. Any chance you can take the same trip? With the kids?

In my more arrogant moments, I can believe that nobody should be permitted to teach unless they have lived in a culture different from the one in which they were raised and/or currently live. Every week I spend in another country, WITH the locals, rather than observing them, is like 3 years of US college in terms of the humanities.


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## ATeacher

No, no chance we can go. Wasn't even asked or brought up.


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## Malaise

Was the decision discussed or just announced ?


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## 225985

Who is the male teacher that is also going?


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## ATeacher

Just sort of decided. Just "Hey, I'm going on this trip for nine days." I mean this is months ago and at the time I didn't say much because it seemed...I don't know, I didn't want to seem restrictive. And it's not an affair I'm worried about, it's just the thought that we must be screwing up pretty royally as a family if my spouse would rather spend 9 days with 20 students than the family.

I'm not worried about any of the other teachers on the vacation. Just the implication this change has for the family.


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## Malaise

You didn't want to sound controlling, so you said nothing.

We've heard that before, here. If you were concerned then, or are now, say something.

But you're right. This does have implications. Something like this should be discussed as a family because it affects all of you.


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## ATeacher

I have said something. The only real response is that it's too late to cancel. And I guess it is. I've thought of taking the kids on an adventure somewhere so we're not all just sitting around here for 9 days while the other half is off kayaking, rafting, hiking, etc. I don't know. It all feels like a no-win.


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## frusdil

Hopefully the whole group will get gastro while they're away, hehehehe.

KIDDING!!

You should have said something sooner OP, it likely is too late now. You should also say to your wife that next time something like comes up, that she is to discuss it with you first, so that you can both decide if it's a good time to go and what happens with the kids back home.

I personally can't imagine voluntarily being away from my children for that long, especially a 6 year old...but I'm weird like that lol.


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## ATeacher

Yeah, I should have said something. Just didn't want to appear...controlling/insecure/whatever.

So I guess the next step is to try to figure out why this is happening, why the desire to head out this year...The only answer about it so far is "It's a good opportunity for the students"...but that doesn't answer why there is/was no desire to be with us during break.


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## Malaise

A lot of men allow things to happen because they don't want to appear controlling. Not saying she'll do something inappropriate. But you should dig some more. "Good for the students" doesn't cut it for me. There was no one else who could go?


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## arbitrator

*Trips such as this should always carry joint approval, or it's basically a "no-go!" At your children's age, their care and concern is far more important than an educational junket off in some faraway country, even if it is for educational purposes!

Due to the lateness of being next to impossible to cancel, I'd agree with letting her go on this trip as long as she gave me the names of all of the others who was signed up for this trip, but she needs to know in no uncertain terms that if there is another similar trip like this ever planned in the future, that it will either be an inclusive family trip, or a husband/wife trip!

The welfare and joint care of your children trumps all here!*


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## Malaise

ATeacher said:


> I have said something. *The only real response is that it's too late to cancel*. And I guess it is. I've thought of taking the kids on an adventure somewhere so we're not all just sitting around here for 9 days while the other half is off kayaking, rafting, hiking, etc. I don't know. It all feels like a no-win.


That was her response?

Nothing about making decisions as a couple, or as a family. No regret about any of it ?

Pretty cold answer.


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## Tatsuhiko

My wife and I have always been of the "family first" mentality, so this would bother me as well. Our family vacations are precious.

However, if both of you have the summer off, your spouse might not see the nine days as a big deal, knowing that the family vacation time can be made up as early as June. And even though there is no additional salary or bonus involved, your spouse might be aware that the school regards it as a career-enhancing move. 

What's the "something else" you're concerned about? A possible affair?


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## Diana7

I think that you should have told him/her how hurt this made you feel and sad that he/she would rather go on this trip than be with you. However, you have SO many holidays together as a family, far far more than most families, so is it really the end of the world? 

Just have a good week with the children while he/she is away, it doesn't have to mean a holiday away, just doing stuff together, playing games, going swimming, go to see a film etc, it will be good for them to have the week with you alone for once. Make the most of it and have fun.


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## Malaise

The problem for me is that the decision to go was made without any discussion.


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## Tatsuhiko

Malaise said:


> The problem for me is that the decision to go was made with any discussion.


Agreed. OP is cagey about gender, but this strikes me as a "man" thing to do. I know, because I'm a man.


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## Marc878

Family always comes first. The "don't want to be controlling" was a mistake.


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## Malaise

Marc878 said:


> Family always comes first. The "don't want to be controlling" was a mistake.


It always is. And we've seen where it leads.


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## SunCMars

I am going to approach this from a different perspective. 

If your wife has always been a good loyal spouse and if you have no doubts about her character and her loyalty, then encourage her to go. Nine days [out of a lifetime] is NOTHING!

As an former Army Reserve Officer, I had been blessed with the opportunity to see parts of the world were few ever get to visit. I have immersed myself in other cultures. I was able to share in the beauty of the land and share in the misery that others live with daily.

This is a chance of a lifetime for her. It will be an adventure. An adventure that she will remember for the rest of her days.
.......................................................................................................................................................................................................

I would take her to the bedroom and lock the door.

I would place one hand between her legs while I looked her in the eye. I would wear a gentle smile.

This is what I would say:

"I want you to enjoy yourself on this trip. It will be a great adventure and you will see many good things and some bad things. You will learn to appreciate this great country that we live in. This great country that we take for granted."

"While you are gone, I will miss you very much. I love you very much. What I am holding in my hand is very important to me". Squeeze that hand. "I do not want to lose this to any other man. My mind trusts you 100%, but, my heart is a fearful beast." 

Kiss her long and hard on the lips, put your tongue in her mouth. 

She may get insulted that you have the nerve to question her loyalty. She may lash out. 

Later, and in retrospect, her mind will be comforted and she will be very pleased. She knows that her man loves her. 

Careful though, jealousy cannot be displayed too often. Overuse can be viewed as controlling.


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## SunCMars

As @Tatsuhiko has said, you are cagey about your gender.

If this post is from a women. Nothing needs changing.

The hand between the legs, the smile, the kiss and the I love you, all still apply.

Passion has no gender restriction. 

Passion needs to be shared............. appropriately, of course! 

I share mine................ willingly.
@ATeacher....share yours with your SO. Spit out the bitter Pettiness. It stains the teeth and the Soul.


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## ATeacher

Thank you all so much for your advice and replies.

I don't know specifically what the "something else" would be. Boredom? Lack of interest in family time? I'm just really angry? hurt? disappointed? that there is an evidenced preference for that experience to us. Like another poster above, I can't imagine giving up 9 days with the family unless it was with...I don't know, close friends? Some kind of training that moves the place on the salary schedule? Maybe not even those things. My spouse has been at the school for a decade with no trips and is still regarded as the top of the department, it's not like schmoozing or impressing is on the top of the dance card.

Affair is at the bottom of the list of things I'm worried about, but I guess it's possible.

Anyhow, I think most agree that it's a sign of...something - something wrong. What's my next step?

I guess I'm being cagey about gender because I'm hoping that might take some preconceived notions out of the equation...I don't know if that's a good thing or bad. I've never had any miffs about my marriage before really - not ones that have caused me to seek advice on an anonymous forum, anyway...

But thanks all - really.


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## ATeacher

Oh, and the making out option is a good one. Always room for making out, even when you're angry.

I'm thinking Disneyworld might be a good getaway over spring break.


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## Cooper

I think your reasoning is petty. If you're upset because she didn't bounce it off you and get your thoughts that I can understand, but to make a big deal out of "family time" is a bit passive aggressive trying to lay on a guilt trip.

Personally I think you should say "wow, that sounds great, what an experience!"


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## Livvie

Don't you get a week off in February and then another week off in April? And then summers off all together, too?

Seems to me you have a lot of family time already....


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## Cooper

ATeacher said:


> Thank you all so much for your advice and replies.
> 
> I don't know specifically what the "something else" would be. Boredom? Lack of interest in family time? I'm just really angry? hurt? disappointed? that there is an evidenced preference for that experience to us. Like another poster above, I can't imagine giving up 9 days with the family unless it was with...I don't know, close friends? Some kind of training that moves the place on the salary schedule? Maybe not even those things. My spouse has been at the school for a decade with no trips and is still regarded as the top of the department, it's not like schmoozing or impressing is on the top of the dance card.
> 
> Affair is at the bottom of the list of things I'm worried about, but I guess it's possible.
> 
> Anyhow, I think most agree that it's a sign of...something - something wrong. What's my next step?
> 
> I guess I'm being cagey about gender because I'm hoping that might take some preconceived notions out of the equation...I don't know if that's a good thing or bad. I've never had any miffs about my marriage before really - not ones that have caused me to seek advice on an anonymous forum, anyway...
> 
> But thanks all - really.


Let's look at this a bit differently. What are you going to tell your kids when they want to take a trip with the church? Attend camp? Go on a ski trip with the school? Spend the summer at grandpas farm? Go on vacation with a friends family? Become an exchange student? Would you deny them those kind of life experiences because you want them home hanging out with the family. I would hope not, so my next question is why would you want to deny your spouse or for that matter yourself a new experience? Just because we grow up doesn't mean our life has to be the same ole same ole day after day, loosen up a bit and take advantage of new experiences. 

You sound either insecure or controlling or both, I would bet your spouse didn't talk to you about it because you would have said no, they would rather deal with your anger than the ongoing drama of trying to convince you to let them go. At the beginning of this thread you tried to reflect your spouse in a negative way by saying they were cheating the family by going away, they were being selfish, now your tune has shifted a bit to being upset you weren't included in the decision. I am all about family time, truly some of the best moments of my life were just hanging out as a family, but good gosh you can't smother your family and expect them to enjoy it. You nurture your spouse just like your kids, and then share in the joy of their experience.


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## Hellomynameis

The trip itself wouldn't bother me. STBX and I used to travel alone regularly because we could never seem to synch up our vacation schedules.

The unilateral decision and not telling you until it was already a done deal would seriously piss me off. I hope the school is paying the way and this is not coming out of your family money without your approval?


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## ATeacher

I've been honest, and shifting emotions in times of stress are not uncommon for any of us I'd imagine. I am not the controlling or insecure type and the only thing I've ever said 'no' about in 15 years of marriage was a new sewing machine for my spouse. Before kids she traveled on her own, I did, too. We have friends we spend time with separately, and the worst thing she's ever said to me in regards to insecurity was that she wishes I would be a little more insecure, a little more jealous when she was spending time with other people. But that's another issue (probably one several of you can identify with). And yes, I will clearly admit that the way I've been feeling about this issue has shifted almost daily and that's probably reflected in my writing, for better or worse. I wasn't trying to lead the thread anywhere, and sympathy or rebuke from strangers is a worthless commodity to me. I am here to garner advice, receive wisdom, and respond when apt.

I've reflected a lot about this situation since I came to you all for help in understanding. I come at this the way I do because the time with the kids while they are young is precious and valuable and fleeting. There will be time enough for tours to my mind, time enough to do those things when the kids are gone, or when the kids are older and not craving time with us as much as they do now. It is difficult for me to understand how she did not see it that way, but feeling so doesn't make me insecure or controlling. As for their future experiences away, perhaps it is my weakness that if they wanted to do a similar tour without us I'd be of the strong desire to take the $3,000 we'd pay for such a thing and see what we could do as a family. Yes, my preference would be to have those experiences together rather than apart. I think it may be different when they are in high school for several reasons. But these swift years when the kids are still kids and actually want to be with us during breaks will be gone all too soon.

In any event it all came to a head last night. My spouse was driving the kids home from their activities and decided to talk to them about her being gone for Spring Break. Neither of us had talked to them much about it at all, and when she asked them if they had any questions my 10-year-old asked my wife why she "wanted to spend spring break with other people and not her." She didn't know what to say. My 6-year-old then said, "Mommy wants to do adventures with other people; Daddy wants to do adventures with us."

I didn't say anything when my wife told me that (yes, I've given up being 'cagey' - it's too much trouble trying to keep track of pronouns). Just held her. She spent a chunk of the night crying. It all came spilling out. She already feels like the kids talk to me more, like me more, have more fun with me, mind me better. Just thing after thing. And now this. We did laugh a little when the situation reminded us of a quote from Christmas Vacation: "Sometimes things look good on paper, but lose their luster when you see how it affects real folks." Wisdom from Mr. Frank Shirley...

I should have spoken my mind about it earlier to her at the outset. I take my share of blame. In an effort to continue to be... uncontrolling I kept my opinions to myself all those months ago. Now it's all just a big emotional cluster**** that now has hurt my wife and kids and the toothpaste is going to be a mess getting back into the tube.

Oh, and Cooper, I didn't say it sounded great because it *doesn't* sound great. Leading a tour of 20 students sounds like a level of Dante's hell to me.

But I think somewhere this thread got off track. It started with me wondering if the decision to change the spring break tradition after a decade was a sign of something. It's turned (admittedly with my help) into a question about the wisdom or value of the trip vs. the wisdom and value of time with the fam. It's turned into what kind of a person I am or am not, and that's not why I came to this forum or posted this thread. I'm still wondering if there's been some kind of shift in her perceptions or feelings. She says no, that at the time it just sounded like it would be good for the students. I guess I need to take that at face value and move on, though I am still wondering why the change. After all, these tours have been available since we started our teaching careers over a decade ago.

Anyhow, I guess that's that. Thanks again for your help and time. I'll try to be an active member of the community here and share what wisdom I have - which, admittedly and obviously - occasionally isn't much. But I have a thriving and successful family, and if this is the the worst issue my marriage has had to face in a decade-and-a-half I can't be totally devoid of some family/parenting chops so I'll help when I can.

Thanks


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## Malaise

*She says no, that at the time it just sounded like it would be good for the students*

That's telling.

Nothing about you or YOUR kids. It's great that a teacher, a good teacher, cares about the students. But, your family comes first.

And, no reason for discussing it with you first? No elaborating on that?

Sounds to me from where I sit that she lacks some respect for you.


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## farsidejunky

I don't know about a lack of respect, but I do smell a bit of resentment over your relationship with the kids.

Watch this closely, brother. Resentment is frequently used to justify actions harmful to the marriage.


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## Yeswecan

ATeacher said:


> Just sort of decided. Just "Hey, I'm going on this trip for nine days." I mean this is months ago and at the time I didn't say much because it seemed...I don't know, I didn't want to seem restrictive. And it's not an affair I'm worried about, it's just the thought that we must be screwing up pretty royally as a family if my spouse would rather spend 9 days with 20 students than the family.
> 
> I'm not worried about any of the other teachers on the vacation. Just the implication this change has for the family.


Sorry but your W should have discussed this with you. Logistics, who is watching the kids and did you have any plans already in mind. Simply stating I'm gone for 9 days you figure it out without any discussion is wrong.


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## Yeswecan

ATeacher said:


> Oh, and the making out option is a good one. Always room for making out, even when you're angry.
> 
> I'm thinking Disneyworld might be a good getaway over spring break.


Do not do Disney unless you already have done the park with the W and kids. Disney is a special park and first timing it with the kids and no W will probably not sit well. 

I can assure you if I rolled into Disney with the kids and not my W with us things would not work out well for me.


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## dubsey

I disagree. Take the kids to Disney. It was her choice to be unavailable.


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## Yeswecan

dubsey said:


> I disagree. Take the kids to Disney. It was her choice to be unavailable.


It would appear to be rubbing it in the OP W face IMO. OP could try it this way, state he is thinking of taking the kids to Disney. If this is the first time for all of them(Disney) I suspect it may get ugly with the W. Every Disney commercial is nothing but family after family after family. It may appear OP is sticking it to his W as a result of her trip sans kids and husband.


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## SunCMars

dubsey said:


> I disagree. Take the kids to Disney. It was her choice to be unavailable.


And THERE it is Folks. Tit for Tat.

No tit for nine days, gits em' going Goofy, Micky Mouse!

Teachers raises our kids when we are not available. And by law, till they are what, 16 or so?

Where is the maturity that gets "passed on" to our youth, if not from home? 

The Village is full of idiots. They cannot raise a child. *They can raise Cain*. And Cain slew an Able bodied tax payer in the Hood today.

Just sayin' and just spoutin' off.


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## EleGirl

ATeacher said:


> I have said something. The only real response is that it's too late to cancel. And I guess it is. I've thought of taking the kids on an adventure somewhere so we're not all just sitting around here for 9 days while the other half is off kayaking, rafting, hiking, etc. I don't know. It all feels like a no-win.


Why don't you plan some special outings, or a trip with your children. That way you all still have some good family adventure over the break.

If you are not worried about an affair, then I don't see a problem with a one-time trip like this for your spouse. I would however make it clear that this is a one-time thing.


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## EleGirl

SunCMars said:


> I am going to approach this from a different perspective.
> 
> If your wife has always been a good loyal spouse and if you have no doubts about her character and her loyalty, then encourage her to go. Nine days [out of a lifetime] is NOTHING!
> 
> As an former Army Reserve Officer, I had been blessed with the opportunity to see parts of the world were few ever get to visit. I have immersed myself in other cultures. I was able to share in the beauty of the land and share in the misery that others live with daily.
> 
> This is a chance of a lifetime for her. It will be an adventure. An adventure that she will remember for the rest of her days.
> .......................................................................................................................................................................................................
> 
> *I would take her to the bedroom and lock the door.
> 
> I would place one hand between her legs while I looked her in the eye. I would wear a gentle smile.
> *
> 
> This is what I would say:
> 
> "I want you to enjoy yourself on this trip. It will be a great adventure and you will see many good things and some bad things. You will learn to appreciate this great country that we live in. This great country that we take for granted."
> 
> "While you are gone, I will miss you very much. I love you very much. *What I am holding in my hand is very important to me". Squeeze that hand. *"I do not want to lose this to any other man. My mind trusts you 100%, but, my heart is a fearful beast."
> 
> Kiss her long and hard on the lips, put your tongue in her mouth.
> 
> She may get insulted that you have the nerve to question her loyalty. She may lash out.
> 
> Later, and in retrospect, her mind will be comforted and she will be very pleased. She knows that her man loves her.
> 
> Careful though, jealousy cannot be displayed too often. Overuse can be viewed as controlling.


I think that the underlined is a horrible idea. If someone did that to me, it would go a long way to destroy the relationship. It boils down the entire relationship to one thing.... my body part. GROSS


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## dubsey

Not being privy to their conversations, but, from what information has been relayed, there hasn't been a true plausible reason for her making the decision on her own without his input. That just doesn't happen.

It was a fundamental lack of respect. The petty part of it isn't about going somewhere, it's about the lack of communication when coming to significant decisions within a marriage. It doesn't have to be Disney, but if he wants to go somewhere with the kids, he should just go.


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## EleGirl

ATeacher said:


> Thank you all so much for your advice and replies.
> 
> I don't know specifically what the "something else" would be. Boredom? Lack of interest in family time? I'm just really angry? hurt? disappointed? that there is an evidenced preference for that experience to us. Like another poster above, I can't imagine giving up 9 days with the family unless it was with...I don't know, close friends? Some kind of training that moves the place on the salary schedule? Maybe not even those things. My spouse has been at the school for a decade with no trips and is still regarded as the top of the department, it's not like schmoozing or impressing is on the top of the dance card.
> 
> Affair is at the bottom of the list of things I'm worried about, but I guess it's possible.
> 
> Anyhow, I think most agree that it's a sign of...something - something wrong. What's my next step?
> 
> I guess I'm being cagey about gender because I'm hoping that might take some preconceived notions out of the equation...I don't know if that's a good thing or bad. I've never had any miffs about my marriage before really - not ones that have caused me to seek advice on an anonymous forum, anyway...
> 
> But thanks all - really.


You need to tell your spouse what you said here about why this entire thing bothers you. The fact that your spouse made this decision unilaterally is a problem.

Does your spouse have to pay for this trip or is the school footing the bill? If he/she is using family money for this without joint agreement, it's even more of a problem.

Just to be clear, my above comment does not contradict my earlier post that a trip like this is ok.. it's ok with joint agreement.

The Policy of Joint Agreement

I wonder if maybe your marriage needs a bit of a fine tuning. There are two books that I think would help you. My suggestion is that you read them first and do the work that they suggest. Then ask your spouse to read them with you and do the work again together. Read them in this order:

"Love Busters"
"His Needs, Her Needs"


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## SunCMars

EleGirl said:


> I think that the underlined is a horrible idea. If someone did that to me, it would go a long way to destroy the relationship. It boils down the entire relationship to one thing.... my body part. GROSS


Fair enough!

If a man did this [only once] in their marriage, then I could understand your reaction. You need to sneak up on a good women. Patience is virtue.

It is soooo hard for me to get a rise out of some as you. Initially, not so much. Once my Avatar fleshed out, you have remained.....untouchable. Mute works too. I realize that you have been on TAM a long time and have Pet Topics that you like to monitor and comment on. 

I stick my wet nose and comments where ever I can get some heartbeats to speed up. Higher PBM as a result of my rubbing some virtual funny bones [preferred] or getting a few riled up enough to rail back at moi. Some view me as what....wacky. Big mistake. 

I am losing ground on TAM. Reason: I am not allowed to put climbing spikes on my Dr. Martins! 

Women often complain that men are not good communicators. If air passing over male vocal chords is the criteria for good communication, I agree with that anode charge. Some men {myself} express our selves [to include love] on the physical plane. Oh, only at ground level, not a mile high. The air is too thin up there.

Seriously, passion needs to come back to *mature marriages*. With this in mind, I give it my 480 Volts, 3-phase, worth. Men have become such wimpy azzes.

Why does this life [and marriage] need to be so bland. 

An admission.........mine is bland, too. I am working on this. Like the hamster in the exercise wheel. 

Admission 2.......Age is my new High Wall, a new Border Wall; to dig under, climb over or drive a Deuce and a Half through. 

Time is not [now] on/at my side. It is now a ferocious headwind. From my end, this Wayward Wind will lose....until it doesn't.


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## TX-SC

If my wife did this, I would wish her luck and truly hope she has a good time. At the same time, I would make sure my kids and I had a good time with some daddy-daughter time. I don't care for Disney World, but a week at the beach? Heck yeah! Beach, putt-putt, museums, fishing... We'd have a blast. Or a trip to the mountains? That's fun too! Either way, we would have a great time! It's a perfect time for more bonding with the kids. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## ATeacher

I went with Disney (I can hear half of you cheering and half of you thinking I've just made a bad situation into a worse one). That's where we'll go while my wife is out of the country. The kids and I considered several options, and this was the one that worked financially, time-wise, and offered the strongest funfactor (we live in a pretty outdoorsey state, so many of the outdoor things mentioned above are pretty routine for the kids). I don't know if that makes me petty, wise, vindictive, good dad, whatever. We're going to have a good time.

Of course the wife is a bit miffed, but she realizes and acknowledges that she chose to be away doing something out of the ordinary and so we can chose to do something, too. She says that after this break is over we'll restart. Better communication, better family planning, better enjoying time with the kids while they're kids on her part and work on making sure the kids feel like both of their parents equally love them and want to be around them equally - whether that's true or not (if that sounds passive aggressive, it is. My apologies).

And now I'm miffed. While she acknowledges that we can do something she is sour about it. She had no trouble with being away for 8 days until talk started up that the kids and I were going to do something besides just sit at home. I mean she had one night of crying when the kids said that they felt ditched by her, but that was it until I made it clear that I wasn't going to spend all of spring break at home. Then she's all kinds of morose and melancholy with bouts of angrysad. Even before the discussion got to Disney she was agitated that I was going to plan something special with them, and that drives me crazy - what makes it okay for her to plan an 8-day getaway from the family with 20 kids that aren't ours and not okay for me to take our own kids on our own adventure in the meantime? Grr. It's like as long as she's out doing something over break and we're not, everything's cool. If I'm out with the kids while she's out doing other things it's somehow not okay.

I'm trying to make sure my motives are pure. I do believe Disney is objectively the best option, though I agree with several of you who have said that it at least could *appear* that I'm trying to stick it to her, punish her or whatever by going to Disney. I guess my bad angel hopes that's the result and this sort of thing never comes up again while the good angel hopes she just sees it for what it is, an attempt to have the best time possible with the kids during Spring Break. The realist in me acknowledges that both are probably part of the equation. Man, I wish I could just be 100% sure I'm 100% purely motivated 100% of the time. That'd be cool.

So. Not great, but there it is. The thing that bothers me the most, though, remains the fact that I still wish I knew why the change. Why this year to choose to be away from me and the kids? Why now? She says she doesn't know. Almost any answer is better than that. I can work on the marriage with answers. I can't work on "I don't know". You know, she was even in a minor car wreck in the summer that has tweaked her back. This was a couple of months after the trip plans were initiated, but before the point of no return date. Since then she can't muster the fortitude to play outside with the kids for any amount of time, yet she's going to spearhead a 6-day hiking/rafting effort in the jungle? Just thought of that...

~le sigh~


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## Tatsuhiko

I think you did the right thing. You figured out a way to maximize the kids' happiness in the absence of their complete family (something you had no control over). That's what a good dad does.

What kind of mother wants her children to be sitting at home during break, less fulfilled, while she herself is off doing the thing that apparently gives her the greatest fulfillment? She needs to look inside herself and ask why her children are closer to their father. Is she jealous of them or does she somehow purposely withhold things that might make them happier, including quality time?

My children are tighter with their mother, but I'm a very close second. And it's not for lack of trying on my part--it's just that special magic that mothers have for bonding with young children. I feel like that's the way it's _supposed_ to be. 

Enjoy your trip.


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## SunCMars

TX-SC said:


> If my wife did this, I would wish her luck and truly hope she has a good time. At the same time, I would make sure my kids and I had a good time with some daddy-daughter time. I don't care for Disney World, but a week at the beach? Heck yeah! Beach, putt-putt, museums, fishing... We'd have a blast. Or a trip to the mountains? That's fun too! Either way, we would have a great time! It's a perfect time for more bonding with the kids.
> 
> Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


Yes!

Thank you!


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## TX-SC

ATeacher said:


> I went with Disney (I can hear half of you cheering and half of you thinking I've just made a bad situation into a worse one). That's where we'll go while my wife is out of the country. The kids and I considered several options, and this was the one that worked financially, time-wise, and offered the strongest funfactor (we live in a pretty outdoorsey state, so many of the outdoor things mentioned above are pretty routine for the kids). I don't know if that makes me petty, wise, vindictive, good dad, whatever. We're going to have a good time.
> 
> Of course the wife is a bit miffed, but she realizes and acknowledges that she chose to be away doing something out of the ordinary and so we can chose to do something, too. She says that after this break is over we'll restart. Better communication, better family planning, better enjoying time with the kids while they're kids on her part and work on making sure the kids feel like both of their parents equally love them and want to be around them equally - whether that's true or not (if that sounds passive aggressive, it is. My apologies).
> 
> And now I'm miffed. While she acknowledges that we can do something she is sour about it. She had no trouble with being away for 8 days until talk started up that the kids and I were going to do something besides just sit at home. I mean she had one night of crying when the kids said that they felt ditched by her, but that was it until I made it clear that I wasn't going to spend all of spring break at home. Then she's all kinds of morose and melancholy with bouts of angrysad. Even before the discussion got to Disney she was agitated that I was going to plan something special with them, and that drives me crazy - what makes it okay for her to plan an 8-day getaway from the family with 20 kids that aren't ours and not okay for me to take our own kids on our own adventure in the meantime? Grr. It's like as long as she's out doing something over break and we're not, everything's cool. If I'm out with the kids while she's out doing other things it's somehow not okay.
> 
> I'm trying to make sure my motives are pure. I do believe Disney is objectively the best option, though I agree with several of you who have said that it at least could *appear* that I'm trying to stick it to her, punish her or whatever by going to Disney. I guess my bad angel hopes that's the result and this sort of thing never comes up again while the good angel hopes she just sees it for what it is, an attempt to have the best time possible with the kids during Spring Break. The realist in me acknowledges that both are probably part of the equation. Man, I wish I could just be 100% sure I'm 100% purely motivated 100% of the time. That'd be cool.
> 
> So. Not great, but there it is. The thing that bothers me the most, though, remains the fact that I still wish I knew why the change. Why this year to choose to be away from me and the kids? Why now? She says she doesn't know. Almost any answer is better than that. I can work on the marriage with answers. I can't work on "I don't know". You know, she was even in a minor car wreck in the summer that has tweaked her back. This was a couple of months after the trip plans were initiated, but before the point of no return date. Since then she can't muster the fortitude to play outside with the kids for any amount of time, yet she's going to spearhead a 6-day hiking/rafting effort in the jungle? Just thought of that...
> 
> ~le sigh~


I understand your delimma! But, in the end, just explain to her that this is all about the kids having fun. You wish she could be there, but she will be having her own fun too. Then, stop worrying over it so much and have a blast. Take lots of pictures. 

I can only guess how bad the lines will be at DW during spring break, but you'll still have a blast! Most importantly, go into this as a fun experience and be laid back about it. 

Your wife can really only blame herself for missing this, but don't rub it in. Seriously, sometimes people screw up. It's part of being human. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Diana7

Many teachers go on educational trips with their pupils. Its not like she is going away for a holiday with her mates. 
You and the children get masses of holidays with her, far far more than most families, and your child saying they feel 'abandoned' and the way you are acting is a massive over reaction. I also think that you going to disney world could have waited a few weeks till the next time you are all off together. I do think you are doing it out of anger and to get at her. 
Are you really that worried about having to look after them at home for a week on your own? People do it all the time. Its not that bad, really. There are so many things you can do, play games, go cycling, see a film, read, go to the park, go bowling, etc etc.


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## Malaise

ATeacher said:


> So. Not great, but there it is. The thing that bothers me the most, though, remains the fact that I still wish I knew why the change. Why this year to choose to be away from me and the kids? Why now? *She says she doesn't know*. Almost any answer is better than that. I can work on the marriage with answers. I can't work on "I don't know". You know, she was even in a minor car wreck in the summer that has tweaked her back. This was a couple of months after the trip plans were initiated, but before the point of no return date. *Since then she can't muster the fortitude to play outside with the kids for any amount of time, yet she's going to spearhead a 6-day hiking/rafting effort in the jungle? Just thought of that...
> *
> ~le sigh~


This adds to the question of the unilateral decision by her .

She must really want to go. 

Who else is going ?


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## ATeacher

It's 20 students and four teachers including her. Another woman she's not close to and two males from her department she's also not particularly close to. I've got 98% confidence that this doesn't have anything to do with an affair or the desire for stimulating male companionship. There's a part of me that wishes it did have to do with that - at least then I'd have some kind of answer and point from which to work. Stupid wish, I know.

And we do have more time off than others, no doubt. I guess the difference between the two of us (well, one of many, I guess) is that I want the memories, the time, the effort *with the kids* as much as possible for as long as we have them. Tours will always be there, literally decades of them after the kids leave home. The kids will be at this age and stage for only a few more years, and it's going fast. So yes, other teachers do go on these trips. I think it's a mistake, though, for those with kids at this age. As for the kids over-reacting, I think they were just expressing how they felt. Others are expressing the same kind of thing. My wife and I were at a party this past weekend and a friend of ours who knows about the jungle trip was chatting with us. "So, what are you doing while she ditches the family?" she said to me. Our friend laughed and said she was joking. I laughed. My wife didn't laugh. 

Am I trying to hurt her? I've already said that I don't think that's my motivation, but that I'd be lacking a certain amount of introspection if I discounted that that may well be at least a portion of the equation. Not proud of it, but I believe in candor here. My halo's a little crooked.

As for waiting for her or being worried about filling time, I'm looking to provide my kids (and yeah, myself as well) with as exciting, memorable, awesome, and special time as possible in a kind of equivalence for all of us. Doing more of what we routinely do (games, movies, hiking, etc.) doesn't fill that bill.

I appreciate all the comments, both those that support me and those that challenge me. For some reason this is tough for me and being able to talk about it helps. I have a close group of friends I talk to, but there's something freeing about this kind of venue, so thanks.


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## 23cm

I think you need something more lasting as a reminder of her transgression. Something red. It will be about 4x the cost of the disney vacay, but will last much much longer and be much much more fun for you. Especially if you are a minivan dad (ick!)


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## TX-SC

23cm said:


> I think you need something more lasting as a reminder of her transgression. Something red. It will be about 2x the cost of the disney vacay, but will last much much longer and be much much more fun for you. Especially if you are a minivan dad (ick!)


Live as you want to live, but leave my minivan out of it!  

I quite like my 2014 Honda Odyssey. Talk about a nice ride! Of course, my main ride is my Tundra, but man that minivan is sweet! 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## 23cm

TX-SC said:


> Live as you want to live, but leave my minivan out of it!
> 
> I quite like my 2014 Honda Odyssey. Talk about a nice ride! Of course, my main ride is my Tundra, but man that minivan is sweet!
> 
> Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


Geez...a familyroom on wheels. 

When she gets all weird, you need some wind therapy. My fav Honda, my 88 Super Magna


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## ATeacher

23cm, you have a good point. What's the saying? Midlife for men yields either a sports car, an affair, or a motorcycle? 

I like the car
Or 
I guess I could hire a 19-year-old au pair to come with us on the trip...
Or
Nah, I'm not really the motorcycle type...

Although the phrase "wind therapy" makes me reconsider...


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## TX-SC

23cm said:


> Geez...a familyroom on wheels.
> 
> When she gets all weird, you need some wind therapy. My fav Honda, my 88 Super Magna


Wind therapy? The windows on my truck work just fine, thanks! I've seen too many people scraped off the pavement for me to want a motorcycle. Now, give me a new 4x4 truck and I'll be happy. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky

Wind therapy also exists in a Wrangler with the top off.


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## 23cm

Hey Teach...

I was flip, and it was intentional and I'm glad you weren't offended by the semi-thread jack.

Now let me be serious. 

I am married to a very independent woman. We married late in life and it was the second for both of us. She had years as a single woman to get used to making decisions for herself. She's a technical professional in an esoteric field where she's literally "The Expert." She's a private pilot and used to making split second life decisions. I've had a pillow made for her with her favorite quote. It's by Amelia Earhart who when asked by a newspaper reporter why she wanted to fly around the world, responded: "I want to do it because I want to do it." 

Yet, not even she would think of doing what your wife did without discussing it with me ahead of time. And, I'm just one person with no kiddos involved. Yes, all people are different and sometimes there are brain farts that cause people to make uncharacteristic decisions. 

But; even with that said, your wife's behavior is very troubling. She makes significant life arrangements without consulting with you, informs you after the fact, and expects you to be okay the massive disrespect her actions present. Then, she gets all pissy when you accept what she's done and plan something fun FOR THE ENTIRE REMAINING FAMILY while she's gone. And, she's miffed when other people point out her abandonment.

My exbrother-in-law is a teacher, the go-to guy who liked camping and outward bound stuff. Although "just" a sixth grade teacher, he was the manly man on these trips and he consummated at least three affairs on his school-related excursions. We found out the seductions began during planning sessions as he was the alpha expert...schmoozing and the odd touching during map reading and equipment packing sessions ("here...let me show you how to do that.") Things would then get serious on the trip itself when he was in a control/power position. He picked married women because he was pretty sure the likelihood of them telling or bonding was less.

What do you know about the others going on the trip? 

Good luck brother.


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## TX-SC

It seems there is a lot of concern about why your wife chose this trip and the possibility of an affair. It has come up several times now. Perhaps you should consider this possibility a little more. I don't believe it's a given, but I'd certainly think a little more about it. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## pianobabe

arbitrator said:


> *trips such as this should always carry joint approval, or it's basically a "no-go!" at your children's age, their care and concern is far more important than an educational junket off in some faraway country, even if it is for educational purposes!
> 
> Due to the lateness of being next to impossible to cancel, i'd agree with letting her go on this trip as long as she gave me the names of all of the others who was signed up for this trip, but she needs to know in no uncertain terms that if there is another similar trip like this ever planned in the future, that it will either be an inclusive family trip, or a husband/wife trip!
> 
> The welfare and joint care of your children trumps all here!*


this!!!


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## Malaise

ATeacher said:


> It's 20 students and four teachers including her. Another woman she's not close to and *two males from her department she's also not particularly close to.* I've got 98% confidence that this doesn't have anything to do with an affair or the desire for stimulating male companionship. There's a part of me that wishes it did have to do with that - at least then I'd have some kind of answer and point from which to work. Stupid wish, I know.
> 
> And we do have more time off than others, no doubt. I guess the difference between the two of us (well, one of many, I guess) is that I want the memories, the time, the effort *with the kids* as much as possible for as long as we have them. Tours will always be there, literally decades of them after the kids leave home. The kids will be at this age and stage for only a few more years, and it's going fast. So yes, other teachers do go on these trips. I think it's a mistake, though, for those with kids at this age. As for the kids over-reacting, I think they were just expressing how they felt. Others are expressing the same kind of thing. *My wife and I were at a party this past weekend and a friend of ours who knows about the jungle trip was chatting with us. "So, what are you doing while she ditches the family?" she said to me. Our friend laughed and said she was joking. I laughed. My wife didn't laugh.
> 
> *




Small point about the first : I've seen here many in an affair claim to not know the eventual affair partners well, or at all, or find them attractive.

Second ; It does sound to me, and perhaps others as well, that the way she handled this is ' ditching ' the family.

And you're right about the kids growing so fast. The memories from WDW at their ages now are so much more poignant than when they become teenagers. BTDT with my nieces and nephew.


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## ATeacher

23cm said:


> Hey Teach...
> 
> ...
> 
> What do you know about the others going on the trip?
> 
> Good luck brother.


I know both of the guys. One's a veteran who's been here as long as we have; the other was new last year. I've spent time with both of them, both with the W and without her. Nothing's ever seemed strange or put my antenna up about either (until recently - more below). Both of them come up in conversation once in a while, but not frequently, just a mention of them doing something at work for the department or such, and not any more or less than any of our other coworkers. She has the contact info of one of them (the older) on her cell, but the call log indicates no calls and the text history only relates to getting coverage for classes that she's going to miss since he's got a room close to her. She has the numbers of most of her department on her cell. I have most of the numbers for my department, too, so nothing out of the ordinary there.

The only weirdness has been that a couple of times the older of the two hasn't greeted me in the halls. He used to. We're not friends, but we give a bro nod or a Hi or whatever. Last couple of times I've seen him he just turns without acknowledgement. Odd, but not damning. Heck, I would have thought it was a little odd even before this thread, but that's all in our lives that could be construed as anything out of the ordinary - at least with regard to any guys I'm aware of. 

So, thanks again all for giving me a place to talk and be talked to. I'll keep my eyes out with a little more "trust but verify" than before and continue to talk with her about her core reasons for the decision and the timing.


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## TX-SC

ATeacher said:


> I know both of the guys. One's a veteran who's been here as long as we have; the other was new last year. I've spent time with both of them, both with the W and without her. Nothing's ever seemed strange or put my antenna up about either (until recently - more below). Both of them come up in conversation once in a while, but not frequently, just a mention of them doing something at work for the department or such, and not any more or less than any of our other coworkers. She has the contact info of one of them (the older) on her cell, but the call log indicates no calls and the text history only relates to getting coverage for classes that she's going to miss since he's got a room close to her. She has the numbers of most of her department on her cell. I have most of the numbers for my department, too, so nothing out of the ordinary there.
> 
> The only weirdness has been that a couple of times the older of the two hasn't greeted me in the halls. He used to. We're not friends, but we give a bro nod or a Hi or whatever. Last couple of times I've seen him he just turns without acknowledgement. Odd, but not damning. Heck, I would have thought it was a little odd even before this thread, but that's all in our lives that could be construed as anything out of the ordinary - at least with regard to any guys I'm aware of.
> 
> So, thanks again all for giving me a place to talk and be talked to. I'll keep my eyes out with a little more "trust but verify" than before and continue to talk with her about her core reasons for the decision and the timing.


I'm not saying anything is going on, in fact it probably isn't, but it's often the one you never expect that you find out is the OM. 

This likely isn't an affair, just some basic selfishness. Go have at DW and make sure to take lots of pics so you can send them to your wife if she has cell service there. If not, show them to her when she gets home. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Marc878

Just because, go online and check your phone bill. You can download and sort normally.

Takes about 15 minutes. You'll know if anything is amiss.


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## barbados

OP,


My concern here is this. Your W didn't really give a damn about your feelings when she planned her trip, but yet you were questioning your selection of Disney and were worrying about her feelings when you planned your trip. Its sounds like you are a little bit to submissive to her.

It also concerns me that she was being whiny about missing out on your trip and like you said she was expecting you to sit home for 9 days while she out having fun. Had a buddy who had a wife like that. She went out w/o him all the time but God forbid if he went out w/o her.

Do you think she would be OK if you took a 9 day trip and left her with the kids ?


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## jlg07

OP, just checking in on this thread. Any updates? Did your wife go on the trip, did you take your kids to Disneyland? Have you found anything by searching phone records, etc.? Hope all is well.


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## ATeacher

Thanks for asking; I should have updated.

I made arrangements to go to DisneyWorld as you know. My wife said it was fine, but was all kinds of passive-aggressive about it and sad.

During that time when the arrangements were being made we were with another family that we occasionally hang with when something about Disney came up and I off-handedly mentioned that we were going. Their oldest daughter (we've known her forever, she used to go to our school, sit our kids) said how lucky we were and how she wished she had the opportunity to go. I kind of jokingly said she could come with if she'd be able to pay her way. Within a week after a few discussions I had my au pair to be with my daughter when she went to the restrooms, when we needed an even number of riders, etc. Her fam thought it was a good idea, she certainly did, my kids did, too. My wife didn't object - and yes, we did discuss it. We agreed to pay the young lady's food costs (she had her own room, of course).

And then a week later suddenly it wasn't so tough for my wife to agree with me that family comes first and it wasn't difficult at all for her to get out of the other trip.

We had a great family vacation to DisneyWorld full of memories and fun. We took the au pair with us, which provided my wife and me a few hours alone both in the park and out  .

Another teacher took my wife's spot on the school trip and all was well there. My wife and I have decided that we need more family vacations.

As for records and such, I almost had a heart attack when I saw one number coming up dozens of times. Turns out my wife was letting my daughter text one of her friends (my daughter doesn't have her own phone, the friend does), so the thing I freaked out about was about a hundred messages of pre-teen girl chatter.

As for the only guy I'd suspect at all, since 2013 she's called his number once - on a snow day because his name was next on the snow tree.


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## Noble1

Glad everything worked out and there is a happy ending to this story.

Keep in mind that the potential disrespect is/was still there when your wife made the trip plans all on her own.

Maybe it's a warning sign, maybe not.

Work on making the best marriage you can and see where it goes.


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## Andy1001

ATeacher said:


> Thanks for asking; I should have updated.
> 
> I made arrangements to go to DisneyWorld as you know. My wife said it was fine, but was all kinds of passive-aggressive about it and sad.
> 
> During that time when the arrangements were being made we were with another family that we occasionally hang with when something about Disney came up and I off-handedly mentioned that we were going. Their oldest daughter (we've known her forever, she used to go to our school, sit our kids) said how lucky we were and how she wished she had the opportunity to go. I kind of jokingly said she could come with if she'd be able to pay her way. Within a week after a few discussions I had my au pair to be with my daughter when she went to the restrooms, when we needed an even number of riders, etc. Her fam thought it was a good idea, she certainly did, my kids did, too. My wife didn't object - and yes, we did discuss it. We agreed to pay the young lady's food costs (she had her own room, of course).
> 
> And then a week later suddenly it wasn't so tough for my wife to agree with me that family comes first and it wasn't difficult at all for her to get out of the other trip.
> 
> We had a great family vacation to DisneyWorld full of memories and fun. We took the au pair with us, which provided my wife and me a few hours alone both in the park and out  .
> 
> Another teacher took my wife's spot on the school trip and all was well there. My wife and I have decided that we need more family vacations.
> 
> As for records and such, I almost had a heart attack when I saw one number coming up dozens of times. Turns out my wife was letting my daughter text one of her friends (my daughter doesn't have her own phone, the friend does), so the thing I freaked out about was about a hundred messages of pre-teen girl chatter.
> 
> As for the only guy I'd suspect at all, since 2013 she's called his number once - on a snow day because his name was next on the snow tree.


Well played sir.well played.


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## manwithnoname

Noble1 said:


> Glad everything worked out and there is a happy ending to this story.
> 
> Keep in mind that the potential disrespect is/was still there when your wife made the trip plans all on her own.
> 
> Maybe it's a warning sign, maybe not.
> 
> Work on making the best marriage you can and see where it goes.



She may have learned a lesson, and if not, OP knows how to better handle a similar situation in the future should one arise.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Now I know, allow a young woman to go on a trip with the family and my wife will find a way out of the unchangeable. /Joke
Glad the trip went well.


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