# Again, really?



## runner12 (May 4, 2012)

Hello everyone! So I am new to this forum. My H previously had an emotional affair with a friend from school that he re-connected with using Facebook (going theme here lately). Long story short, I discovered what was going on and after much arguing, he cut off contact with her. About 6 months ago, he started on another social media site and I found that he had looked this woman up. He claimed that it was because he wanted to know if he would run into her. He never went on tha site again and I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Now, I just found that he had looked up directions to her new address (she moved recently to our town) using the map application on his iphone, as well as directions to a restaruant he has never been to with me. Things have been going really well between us and I have not found any texts, calls, or emails between the two of them since he 'cut off contact with her' two years ago. I have not confronted him because I am just at such a loss of what to do. Am I making a mountain out of a molehill? On the other hand, you don't look up directions to someones house unless you plan on going there. Then I wonder if maybe they have had contact all along and I just didn't find it. We are having none of the issues that we had when he had the EA. I just don't know that I can go through this again. I had finally reached a point where I felt like I could trust him and I don't want to go backwards. Now, I have no idea what to do. I have no proof that they have actually had contact. Technology and social media have made it so easy for people to have affairs. It is so frustrating sometimes.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Get some proof.

Check his phone records.
Get his iPhone back-ups and check texts.
Put a VAR under his car seat.
Get any and all info you can on the woman.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

You can take one of several approaches. I'll outline three. 

One: You go stealth, VAR, Keylogger, MobileSpy for the phone, verify all account activity, and confront when you have proof. The idea in going stealth is to prevent them from taking things underground.

Two: File for D. When he asks why, tell him he knows perfectly why you are filing, and if he wants to have any contact with you in the future he gets one chance to tell the truth. See what he says.

Three: Go to MC, bring up your concerns in a moderated environment. Ask him why he felt it would be in any way shape of form appropriate for him to disrespect you ONCE AGAIN by spending ANY amount of time on this woman. 

If I was addicted to heroin, and was clean for two years, then you came home and found instructions in the trash can on how to make a "foily" (device to smoke heroin) and my phone had directions to the ghetto where I used to buy the heroin, would you even hesitate in confronting?

Wishing for the best, good luck, we are here for you.


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## runner12 (May 4, 2012)

Tacoma, I do check his texts and calls and compare them to the cell phone bill. What are iphone back ups? I have noticed recently he has gone as far as deleting the cookie data under the settings in safari so I can't see what he is looking at all the time on the web. I will have to look into a VAR; never heard of it. I actually know who she is; she use to work where I work at and we worked with each other a couple times before they ever reconnected. The funny things is, she had just gotten out of her second marriage where her husband cheated on her multiple times. So I was even more blown away when I realized what was going on. Thanks for the info!

Paladin, I like your options, especially option 2. He works in IT, so I don't know that I could swing the keylogger. Do the mobilespy programs really work? I guess I'm afraid to just throw in the towel without more proof. But I can't keep going through this. He's an adult and knows right from wrong. If the roles were reveresed, he would have been all over it. Your addict example made perfect sense. Thanks for the advice!


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

You are NOT making a mountain out of a molehill. Paladin's analogy is spot on.

My husband knows that the divorce papers would still be hot from the printer if I were to discover such a thing on his phone or our computer. And his bags packed on the front porch.

No contact is NO CONTACT, forever and ever and ever and ever. Looking up directions to her house?? I mean, really.

And that is nothing short of tragic that she was betrayed and has turned into a betrayer. She should hand in her BS membership card ASAP. What a b****.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Paladin said:


> You can take one of several approaches. I'll outline three.
> 
> One: You go stealth, VAR, Keylogger, MobileSpy for the phone, verify all account activity, and confront when you have proof. The idea in going stealth is to prevent them from taking things underground.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree:

No, you are NOT making a mountain out of a molehill.


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## Hank567 (Apr 23, 2012)

runner12 said:


> He works in IT, so I don't know that I could swing the keylogger.


There are some very good ones that are very hard to detect. Plus, if he's having an A, his state of mind isn't totally clear.

There are some on this board that might disagree, but the fact that he's covering his tracks like that is a red flag.



runner12 said:


> Technology and social media have made it so easy for people to have affairs. It is so frustrating sometimes.


True, but it also makes it easier for them to get caught, most things keep logs and records these days.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

If my H had dirrections to OW's house years after an affair. I would drive him right to her house and when we arrived I would say, "This is where you were planning on living right?" 

I say you dig harder if you want more info but I think that directions to a restraunt and the ow's house is enough. May be go to the restraunt with a picture of them both and see if anyone there remembers seeing them (check credit card and debit statements too old school but might tell you if he has been to that restraunt). It may work and better yet you'll have info that IT hubby can not hide away from you.

I would flip my lid not question my self. Don't question your self. Your concern is not in the wrong his actions are and you know it. So don't think you are over reacting if anything you are under reacting IMO.


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## runner12 (May 4, 2012)

So I decided to see what info I could find on my H's oline activities. I downloaded a free trial of webwatcher for 7 days. That is an awesome program, for anyone that is interested. While he didn't search for her, he did search for dating sites  Anyway, so I confronted him about both. I am still left feeling like I didn't really get anywhere. He said that the reason he looked up her address is because he was curious about her, how she was doing. He said she was his best friend and he does still miss her and think about her from time to time. That was hard for me to hear. He still insists to this day that he had no romantic feelings toward her or any attraction, she was just his best friend. So now I'm confused because this has me going back over everything that we went thru two years ago all over again and questioning everything. Plus he is very conflicting because in one minute he says he misses her friendship and he looked up directions to her house and the next minute he is saying how much he hates her and how she almost ruined our marriage. So I'm not sure how he really feels about her o what to think. When I asked about the dating site, he denied it right to my face multiple times and then broke down and admitted he went to the home page of one. I know from the webwatcher that he didn't post a profile but still, a dating site, wtf! He said it was because he was lonely and looking for a friend. I didn't know married men go on dating sites looking for friends. That just makes no sense what so ever. I just don't even know what to think anymore. It's hard when you think you know who your spouse is and then they do something to completely throw everything that you thought about them out the window. You find yourself re-examining everything in your marriage and about them.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

He's only telling you what he thinks you already know. 

I would say you now need to go to option 2 or 3 above.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

You have a lot of good advice as to how to detect an affair, but I'd like to advise a different tactic...have you spent some time taking a good hard look at your own marriage? What's going on? Are there things that you know he's unhappy about, or that you are unhappy about, that you haven't discussed?

I'd say that's job one.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

lamaga said:


> You have a lot of good advice as to how to detect an affair, but I'd like to advise a different tactic...have you spent some time taking a good hard look at your own marriage? What's going on? Are there things that you know he's unhappy about, or that you are unhappy about, that you haven't discussed?
> 
> I'd say that's job one.


I have a question along these lines. Did you ever go to marriage counseling after his EA? Maybe it's time to go again. This time, pick someone highly trained in infidelity. You need someone who can get to the heart of what he did and won't let him pretend it was something it was not. 

Around here, the standard comment would be that the original affair was swept under the rug--either he didn't go to IC to understand the neediness in himself that causes him to seek out other women for validation outside his marriage, or the two of you contributed in some way to the marriage being vulnerable. He is 100% responsible for his choice to go outside the marriage to meet his emotional needs. He is also responsible for figuring out how to adequately communicate his needs to you. But he is clearly failing at the latter miserably, and it sounds like he needs professional help to achieve this.


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## Rainey Okay (May 9, 2012)

Runner I am glad you trusted your instincts and took the steps to get the information you need to go forward. I do think you need to seek counseling. If you want to stay married to this man and he wants to be married to you, you both have a lot of work to do. I am trying to repair my marriage as well. Honesty and transparency is the only thing that is going to get us through. 
Peace


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## Cherie (May 9, 2012)

Trust your instinct on this one, girl. She recently moved to your town?? And he googled DIRECTIONS to her house on his phone??
And what did he say was the reason he googled the restaurant he's never taken you to?

The more you dig, the more you will find. Be prepared for the worst. He's only telling you what he can get away with... 

I say have him followed for a week. One way or another
Good luck to you & please keep us posted.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

tacoma said:


> Get some proof.
> 
> Check his phone records.
> Get his iPhone back-ups and check texts.
> ...


Yes. and whatever you do, do not disclose at this time. You need stealth for this.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

lamaga said:


> You have a lot of good advice as to how to detect an affair, but I'd like to advise a different tactic...have you spent some time taking a good hard look at your own marriage? What's going on? Are there things that you know he's unhappy about, or that you are unhappy about, that you haven't discussed?
> 
> I'd say that's job one.


IMO, it's job 2. First she needs to uncover the affair.
Actually, maybe it is job 3, as after the affair is uncovered, the focus should be on the betrayal for a good long time before any pre-affair problems(usually caused mainly by the cheater, BTW) are addressed.


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## DiZ (May 15, 2012)

You are not overreacting at all. It sounds like he and her have never really cut off contact. I would be up front with him and tell him what you found and ask him what is going on! I am in a similar situation. I hate it.


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## runner12 (May 4, 2012)

Thank you everyone for the advice. Sometimes its just really hard because I'm afraid to react on my first gut instinct (divorce) when I find things because we have 3 kids and have been together for 10 years, I do love him. After his EA, I found absolutely no contact between the 2 of them. He was completely transparent and we went through several grueling months of repairing our marriage. I think both of us contributed to his EA in the first place. He had finished school and was struggeling to find a job. Meanwhile, my career was going well and I was supporting all of us. Rather than helping with housework and the kids, he pretty much became wrapped up in himself and spent most of his time on the computer. This led to a lot of time for him to have contact with her. I was distant because I was angry with him for not helping around the house while I worked and contacting her so much. We didn't give each other or our marriage the necessary work or attention. Right after he cut off contact with her, I went to counseling. He tried to rug sweep everything but I kept talking about it and asking questions. Looking back on it now though, I didn't really get a lot of answers. I see now the vagueness of his response or telling me the things that I already knew. After the EA, he started a new job and it was not possible for him to go to counseling, so I just went. Things have been going really well in our marriage, which is why I am surprised to find these things. After he cut off contact and we worked on our marriage and communication, I have felt closer to him then I ever did before the EA. He even commented on how in a funny way, the EA brought us closer together. That's why I am so shocked to find he suddenly looked her up and the dating site. It really threw me for a loop and I'm struggeling because of that. We have made such great strides in our marriage; I don't understand why he would suddenly do this. I know he is struggeling with approaching his 40's but I have been very supportive. If this is what it's like now, I hate to think of what a mid-life crisis would be like. I will admit, I have often thought my husband has problems with boundaries. Three other times (pre-EA) he went on a dating site and posted a profile. He says he doesn't think about why he is doing things, he just does them. He is a very in the moment kind of person, flirtatious, a social butterfly. His behavior is not always the norm and he kind of does his own thing. However, sometimes I wonder if he hides behind the excuse that he just does things without thinking and that he can't remember what he did a month ago, let alone last week. All I want is the truth, the whole truth, because after 10 years, I deserve at least that. But now I wonder if I will ever know the whole truth. I still have not found anything to show that he has had any contact with her. I have no idea to know if he took contact with her underground and I have just been naive all this time. Or did he really just look up directions to her house and it never went farther than that. I feel like all the work that I did to work through the emotions after the EA and improve our marriage literally went right down the toilet as soon as I saw her address on his phone. And now, I am reliving all of the emotions of when I first found about the EA. I hope I am making sense, lol. Just very confused and unsure what the right thing to do is. There's no instruction maual that says if your husband does such and such, divorce him.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

runner12 said:


> Looking back on it now though, I didn't really get a lot of answers. I see now the vagueness of his response or telling me the things that I already knew. After the EA, he started a new job and it was not possible for him to go to counseling, so I just went.
> 
> ************
> 
> I will admit, I have often thought my husband has problems with boundaries. Three other times (pre-EA) he went on a dating site and posted a profile. He says he doesn't think about why he is doing things, he just does them.


I am sorry you feel that you did work on the marriage, and it didn't amount to much. You tried to avoid rug-sweeping, but it happened anyhow.

This is not so unusual. I also took a very hard stance after DD#1. I told my husband I'd divorce him if he thought about contacting his AP again and we immediately went into counseling. I didn't know that he was actually in contact with her again almost as soon as counseling started. It continued on through counseling and right up until 3 mos. ago--all unbeknownst to me. It never occurred to me to double check.

His EA truly might be the least of his problems. Repeatedly visiting dating websites is no coincidence. He is pondering cheating and it often comes to mind. Don't ask him why, he will never tell you. This is the sort of thing that can only emerge with the help of a well-trained counselor.



runner12 said:


> I have no idea to know if he took contact with her underground and I have just been naive all this time. Or did he really just look up directions to her house and it never went farther than that.


If you get a look at the online cell phone records for his carrier, it should at least show if they texted / emailed. He needs to give you ALL accounts, IM, skype, facebook, etc. together with the passwords. He may not keep his phone locked and the keylogger needs to remain on the computer for the time being.

He needs to come clean as much as possible. Explain to him that typically with these types of infidelity issues, the betrayer tries to keep information to themselves on the pretense of "protecting" the loyal spouse. But it is the LIES that detroy your trust, and every time you catch him in a lie, your love for him ebbs out. He may wake up one day and find you cannot love him any more because he could not find a way to be 100% fully truthful to you UP FRONT.




runner12 said:


> And now, I am reliving all of the emotions of when I first found about the EA.


This is Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome and it is very common in your situation. It sends you back to the memories from that time when you were in such great distress, they are very much embedded in your brain and this calls them forth, complete with the physical symptoms. It puts your body into a state of hypervigilance; where is the next danger going to come from? You feel like it is just around the corner and your body is trying with all its might to protect you from that danger. You know, the one that presumably sleeps in the same bed as you do every night.



runner12 said:


> There's no instruction maual that says if your husband does such and such, divorce him.


Divorce is a very misunderstood element of breaking up this type of inappropriate behavior. Divorce takes a long time to do and it can be delayed, stalled, or dismissed before completion. It is the ultimate card to play but sometimes it is the only way to get someone to wake up and comprehend that the time for their selfish behavior is OVER and they must choose between their betrayals and their marriage.

In addition to MC, he clearly needs IC. IC is almost always a good idea, but a must with a serial cheater--because that is what your husband is. He may not have done some of the worst things on the forum, but his inability to control his compulsion is still very serious.


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