# At wit's end and running out of options



## LostInNJ53 (May 24, 2013)

I've been lurking here for a few months while trying to figure out how to put my situation into words. I'm in a financial and personal relationship that I don't know how to to handle. I've been married to my current wife for about 17 years. It is my second marriage and her third. She has 1 son from her 1st marriage and I have 2 from mine. When we first met she told me how she never expected anyone to financially support her and that she was able to earn her own income. Also that she didn't believe in credit cards and she didn't buy anything unless she had the cash. So, we moved forward with out relationship. We got married in 1997 and I was working. I thought that I had someone to act as a financial safety net is case of losing my job and vice versa. In a nutshell, since I got my married she lost her job and never bothered to find another but kept coming up with money making schemes that required me to work and her to "Work from home". 
I'm going to end up turning this into a book. But she hasn't worked in 15 years and feels that I should be supporting her. She bring a small amount of money each money from when she filed early Social Security benefits (less than $900/month) and expects me to cover the rest. She told me that she could make up to a certain amount on top of the benefits. She said she could but never that she WOULD. 
I don't know what to do. It's been a running argument for the past 3 years. She just lays around the house and does minimal (minimal is just doing laundry for the 2 of us and cooking when she feels like it) but most times she doesn't feel like cooking so she wants me to pick up take-out. 

I've been unemployed about 3 times during our marriage and she has NEVER pitched in to help earn any money. I have a potential job offer coming and I don't want her to know my income or the company I'm going to work for. Is there a law that states that I have to disclose this to her. Employed or unemployed I'm stuck with paying the rent, auto insurance, the judgments that I got stuck with when she didn't pay the credit cards when she was suppose to manage the household money. What she was suppose to pay for was cable TV, cell phones, electric, & gas & groceries. I thought this would force her to go out and find a job. Instead we've had our electric shut off. She just uses her SS benefits and expects me to make up the difference. This situation has slowly evolved over the last few years. I am worse off now than before I met her.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

What do you want to do about it? It seems you can accept it, demand she get a job, and divorce her if she doesn't.


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## LostInNJ53 (May 24, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> What do you want to do about it? It seems you can accept it, demand she get a job, and divorce her if she doesn't.


I'd like her to get a job. But everytime I bring it up it becomes an argument. She comes up with all these excuses. I've never given her the ultimatum of getting a job or we go our separate ways because I don't know if I am financially prepared to do that. To go my own way I'd have to be able to transfer the utilities to a new address and the utility companies won't until I pay off the past due amounts which my wife allowed to go delinquent. I would prefer she walked. But then she'd have to find someone else to mooch off of.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You can't MAKE her do anything, obviously. What you can do is figure out your boundaries, and how far you're willing to go to enforce them. Right now, you've spent years teaching her she can safely ignore your bluster, because you're not going to go anywhere or do anything. So... The ball's in your court. Are you willing to enforce your boundaries, or are you going to continue the same path?

C


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## Faiora (Apr 20, 2013)

LostInNJ53 said:


> I'd like her to get a job. But everytime I bring it up it becomes an argument. She comes up with all these excuses. I've never given her the ultimatum of getting a job or we go our separate ways because I don't know if I am financially prepared to do that. To go my own way I'd have to be able to transfer the utilities to a new address and the utility companies won't until I pay off the past due amounts which my wife allowed to go delinquent. I would prefer she walked. But then she'd have to find someone else to mooch off of.


It sounds to me like we're not hearing the whole story. 

Your wife may very well be lazy and useless, but she didn't "let" the past due amounts go delinquent. If the utilities are in your name, then you need to take responsibility for them—you are the one who let them go delinquent, and your responsibility in that situation is _at least_ equal. 

Clearly your financial situation can't get much worse, so you might as well move out if that would be a better situation for you in other ways. Live off ramen, rent a room in a house full of people, whatever it takes. Make your life better. 

I personally don't think it's okay for people to get by on government income without trying to find work, and doing whatever it takes to be self sufficient. So I don't have a lot of respect for your wife's current approach to life. But, with everything I've said above I should provide some balance, lest it look like I'm suggesting your relationship is over (since I have not formed that conclusion). 

If you want to work on your relationship, you need to have a _good_ talk. And by a good talk, I mean a talk where both of you communicate in a way that makes the other person feel safe and valued. 

My suggestions would be:

- Go to a coffee shop or other neutral ground
- Ask your wife questions about what her life goals are
- Ask your wife what she thinks she would be good at as a career
- Ask what the steps would be towards pursuing that
- Ask what hobbies interest her
- Ask out what skills her current hobbies might give her in the workplace
- Talk about how she's feeling and what would make her happy

And so on. 

If you go at this from the angle of "You need to hold up your end" there's an obvious defensive reaction most people will jump to, which involves denial and excuses. You have to have a pretty confident, safe, and healthy relationship (or a very self-secure person responding) to hear "I'm sorry, you're right, I should do better. How about we try this?"

So think about the obvious reactions people would have to what you say, and use that to think of better ways to communicate and make your wife feel safe. 

If you're not willing to do that, which you might legitimately not be willing to do (after all, it's you accommodating her), then I think your relationship might be past the point of no return—because it implies you've lost your last shred of caring-enough-to-keep-trying. As an aside, if the above conversation produces results you are not happy with (e.g. she wants to watch TV all day and not work ever again) then at least you have a clear picture of her intentions and what the rest of your life will be like if you stay. And if you decide to leave, you'll have a real incompatibility to attribute that to. 

Her actions don't necessarily imply she doesn't care. But there's definitely something going on there. Find out what it is if you can. Nobody is "just lazy."


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## LostInNJ53 (May 24, 2013)

Faiora said:


> It sounds to me like we're not hearing the whole story.
> 
> Your wife may very well be lazy and useless, but she didn't "let" the past due amounts go delinquent. If the utilities are in your name, then you need to take responsibility for them—you are the one who let them go delinquent, and your responsibility in that situation is _at least_ equal.
> 
> ...


You're right. You're not hearing the whole story...it's that there is a lot more than I have time to post here. Yes, we've had the conversations. Yes, the accounts are delinquent and yes I did take my eye off the ball because I didn't feel that I needed to keep an eye on them. Why? Because I believed her when she told me they were under control. I never even knew how behind they were because she always got the mail and hid the bills and when the accounts were set up we used her cell phone number as the contact number. The only way I found out was when I came home one day and a gentleman stepped out of a van and approached me to hand me an envelope with a delinquency notice telling me that I needed to call the main office. Now, up until recently, she managed the household funds and all money went into the household account to pay bills. I make just enough to supposedly cover the bills. Whenever she went out and bought expensive gifts for her son and his family I'd ask where did the money come from? She told me to not worry about it that she had everything under control. I said that all long as the bills get paid and she said they were. I figured that she was making money from some of her schemes. I was concerned that she didn't choose to save some of the money but she just blew me off.

There's been heated arguments over the years. But you don't argue with my wife, she has a unique skill of twisting arguments to where you end up arguing from a position that you didn't start with or choose to argue. 

I don't know how much I am guilty of enabling her as opposed to being stupid and believing her. In the beginning, she was going to stay home and make money with all of these schemes she had (I now call them "Ralph Kramden" schemes). I also believed her. Whenever I asked about the outcome of her plans she always had plausible excuses. 

Yes, I have appointments to see a few attorney's after the 1st of the year to determine what legal recourses I have. But you have to remember, I was stupid and I was pretty much like the frog sitting in the pot of water that is slowly being brought to a boil. He doesn't know how deep in trouble he is until the water starts bubbling.

I just need to find a lawyer I can trust.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LostInNJ53 said:


> I'd like her to get a job. But everytime I bring it up it becomes an argument. She comes up with all these excuses.


"Wife, I'm done supporting you when you don't reciprocate. I'd rather be single than this unhappy. Either you realize that and start contributing or I'm out. Your choice."


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## Faiora (Apr 20, 2013)

LostInNJ53 said:


> You're right. You're not hearing the whole story...it's that there is a lot more than I have time to post here. Yes, we've had the conversations. Yes, the accounts are delinquent and yes I did take my eye off the ball because I didn't feel that I needed to keep an eye on them. Why? Because I believed her when she told me they were under control. I never even knew how behind they were because she always got the mail and hid the bills and when the accounts were set up we used her cell phone number as the contact number. The only way I found out was when I came home one day and a gentleman stepped out of a van and approached me to hand me an envelope with a delinquency notice telling me that I needed to call the main office. Now, up until recently, she managed the household funds and all money went into the household account to pay bills. I make just enough to supposedly cover the bills. Whenever she went out and bought expensive gifts for her son and his family I'd ask where did the money come from? She told me to not worry about it that she had everything under control. I said that all long as the bills get paid and she said they were. I figured that she was making money from some of her schemes. I was concerned that she didn't choose to save some of the money but she just blew me off.
> 
> There's been heated arguments over the years. But you don't argue with my wife, she has a unique skill of twisting arguments to where you end up arguing from a position that you didn't start with or choose to argue.
> 
> ...


Fair enough. Lesson learned the hard way, I guess. 

In a way I could see this happening in my own relationship if I was less straightforward about things. My husband, while he does have high expectations of me (as I do him), is trusting. We meet every other Friday to talk about accounting, and I could easily just tell him all is well, bills are paid, this much is in savings. But instead, I show him the budget spreadsheet and make him pay attention, even to the places where I spent money and likely shouldn't have. 

I think it's hard for me to understand this kind of dishonesty because I'm not used to it. If my husband does something I wouldn't like, as far as I can tell he always tells me when I get home, starting with "I did a bad thing" which I find kind of cute and disarming. I don't think I've kept anything from him either, unless it was a surprise for him. The reason this works for us is that both of us know the other person isn't going to freak out right away, even if it's something big. 

So, it's possible your wife is expecting a freak-out, which would either be because you tend to freak out, or because she's gone so far with her lies that she can't imagine anyone forgiving her. 

It sounds like you've already decided against working on the marriage. So, if that's the case I do hope you find some good legal help and sort things out in your favour. Unfortunately the system favours women, and there's an inherent expectation that you should have known what was going on financially, so you might run into trouble. But, I'll cross my fingers for you in any case.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

See an attorney, find out your rights, set things up so to protect yourself. 

File for divorce before you start your new job.

While your wife has done a lot wrong, so have you. From what you have said you allowed this to go on for 15 years, you did not do your due diligence on bills that were in your name. 

Like most things that go wrong in life, learn from your mistakes and move on.


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## LostInNJ53 (May 24, 2013)

in the process of locating a lawyer to discuss my options. And, yes, I was stupid and too trusting. I'm not going to be able to file for divorce before I get a new job.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

LostInNJ53 said:


> in the process of locating a lawyer to discuss my options. And, yes, I was stupid and too trusting. I'm not going to be able to file for divorce before I get a new job.


Are you currently unemployed? I couldnt tell by your first post. 

One thing you should do immediately is open your own bank account and close out the joint accounts. That way she has no access to the money to blow on other things. You may discover that you really cannot cover everything on just your income, and it may sound harsh, but bankruptcy can be a very valid, necessary option. I had to file myself so that I could get out of my second marriage. And the world did not end. Personally, I would not tolerate this from the person who was supposed to be my life PARTNER. She is no partner to you, and you would be better off on your own.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Can you find a way to file for divorce now while you're unemployed? You may be looking at alimony for your wife. Cut her off from all cash & credit. 

After 15 years of this nonsense, I wouldn't give her the courtesy of telling her the time of day. Just serve her & be done with it.


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## Pam (Oct 7, 2010)

Get a Post Office box somewhere, and have all correspondence with new job directed there. If you have any income, open a new bank account and have your income directed there (and bank statements to the P.O. box). I don't agree with completely closing the joint accounts, but withdraw some of the money for your new bank account.

Look for either a small furnished apartment that includes utilities, or a home that rents rooms. You can just keep an eye out for that, for right now, but you have to start making plans.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

"She just uses her SS benefits and expects me to make up the difference" She is contributing financially. You are treating your wife like a roommate instead of a wife where you two combine your money and pay bills from the pile. It sounds like you have had some job troubles yourself and aren't making enough money. You prefer she walked? Gee that sounds like a loving husband. NOT You sound cold. There is more to a marriage than money, how about love sex and companionship? Even if you leave her she will get half the assets and alimony.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Happilymarried25 said:


> "She just uses her SS benefits and expects me to make up the difference" She is contributing financially. You are treating your wife like a roommate instead of a wife where you two combine your money and pay bills from the pile. It sounds like you have had some job troubles yourself and aren't making enough money. You prefer she walked? Gee that sounds like a loving husband. NOT You sound cold. There is more to a marriage than money, how about love sex and companionship? Even if you leave her she will get half the assets and alimony.


The woman deliberately hid bills and gave her cell for the contact so he wouldn't know what money was being spent.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

You know what they say about those that brag right? 

When ANYONE tells you something about them (in your wife's case, no credit cards and able to support themselves)......what you do is make sure that is the truth.....not assume that's a fact.

Most people that say that = have credit trouble and are unable to support themselves. 

What you are experiencing my friend is called financial negligence.

it's time to sit her down and have a serious conversation about this issue. Identify any defensiveness if it comes your way (I have a feeling it will happen as I have some experience on this subject). Tell her defensiveness has to stop and you need to be able to talk to her about ANYTHING in your relationship.

Accept that she has been and IS using you as we speak. That's the CORE of the issue here.

Tell her that she needs to start working and pulling her weight. Remind her about what she told you when you guys first met. Tell her you feel that it is not true now.

Depending on how the conversation goes, I would do the following:

If it goes well > watch her action and make sure she is actually looking for a job. Remember, finding a job IS a full time job. So unless she is filling out resume/applying 8 hours a day....she is NOT looking.

If it doesn't go well > it's time for you to make a decision. Are you willing to be a provider for the rest of your life and support this person? I wouldn't. EVERYONE needs to contribute towards the household. Tell her this is not only unacceptable but it's financial negligence on her part and you are not going to accept it or put up with it (like you have in the past).

I would also tell her that you are thinking about a divorce. And actually proceed if no ACTION is taken.

But be prepared, chances are high you are dealing with a leach here. She will most likely come after you for alimony or whatever else she can suck out of your until you are dry.

Meanwhile, go talk to a lawyer and see what legal grounds she has to stand on and how bad you are going to get hit when and if you get a divorce. NOT JUST FROM HER but FROM HIM!!! 

Everything you said in your posts = you have a leach/co dependent/lazy person. 

My wife doesn't have a job, BUT she is going to school right now and has a LONG history of busting her ass raising the kids/cleaning and taking care of the household. She contributes greatly. But her responsibility list is getting shorter as the kids get older and we can use extra income so I have a mildly similar situation to yours.

Yours seems WAY more extreme.


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## LostInNJ53 (May 24, 2013)

Sorry for being away but my computer crapped out and I just got it up and running again yesterday.
About a week ago we talked and I explained the current financial situation and asked for help with the bills. She refused and said all she intends to contribute is the monthly SS benefits (about $800/per month) and feels that I should deal with the problems. During the discussion I never mentioned how it came about. 
Our total housing costs are about $3000/month (without the added debt burden). Today I pressed the issue that she needs to look for a job. Her reply was that she now says she is an invalid, that she says she can barely walk. When I brought up disability (knowing that she has to get a doctor's diagnosis to apply) she says that she won't qualify because she's on SS. When I asked her what her intentions were...was she planning on living off of me? Her answer...yes.
I've got contact information for 1 attorney and as soon as I get a job I will be calling him. Spousal support? Probably, but I have to confirm that it NJ is can't be more than 40% of my net earnings. With the amount of debt she's left me and having to make arrangements for payment my net will be very close to zero.
I see myself living the rest of my life in misery. I don't feel a person has to pay for their mistakes for the rest of their lives. But. essentially, I want her to carry her fair share of the financial burden. She only contributes her SS amount and DEMANDS that I provide her with any additional money she needs. If I don't have it she expects me to go out and make more. 
Yes, I was stupid. The warning signs were there years before. But I believed her. When I lost my job in 2001 I ended up working 3 jobs and when I asked her to go get a job to help she told me she could make more money working from home (she planned on starting an Internet advertising company). She didn't. 

I'd like to get contact info for other reliable divorce attorneys in southern NJ.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So, a couple questions. What do you do for a living? Any training or college?

And are you now ready to start turning off cable and phone and internet and anything else frivolous until you get back on your feet? You can get a landline phone for about $40/month, if that much, and your job hunters can reach you on that until you get a job. What do you have that you can sell to get out of debt? Look for a local online garage sale organization where you can list things for sale. Start separating her stuff from yours. Let her see you doing it. She needs to know you're serious; she's way too entitled. What you've bought for her, sell it. Put the money toward debt. Cancel all credit cards but one, you keep that on you. Let her buy the groceries with her $800; if she won't, stop eating at home; store your own food elsewhere. 

In other words, freeze her out until she gets it.


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