# Covert Narc Husband Most Likely Been Cheating on me



## MtMoriah (Sep 29, 2021)

I am 99.9% certain that my husband has been cheating on me for years in various ways. It's a long story, so I will attempt to shorten it to the most important points. I don't have concrete proof yet, but there are lots of red flags that point to persistent, chronic cheating over the 20 years we've been married, and he has recently admitted to lying about his whereabouts for years. These red flags don't even include the ongoing twisting of my words during a disagreement and the fact that I discovered just 6 months ago that he is a covert narcissist - didn't know it was a thing, but I had been searching for years as to why he seemed to be 2 different people - a Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde - conversations are very difficult if they go beyond just surface talk.

He's always been very defensive and easily offended. When I say something like, "I feel like I have to walk on egg shells around you." He replies, "I feel the same way about you." And the conversation drops. He always turns conversations into something about him and ignores my wishes for him to study me, date me, initiate things, etc. Passive aggression, gaslighting, deflecting ... all of these. I have slowly learned to cope somewhat by staying silent most of the time and avoiding any type of confrontation (this is for the sake of my two sons, who are teenagers currently). I have totally trusted him until the last few years, and actually said early on that I knew he wasn't someone who could like since he was so transparent (boy have I had a major wake up call on the lying bit ...) I have never snooped on him until I caught him in THE LIE (described below).

Red Flags (in order)

1 - About 4 years ago, I went to meet a female friend at a local Starbucks to chat and have coffee. He had never come across as the jealous type during my time of knowing him, and he actually didn't care how long I was gone to the point that it almost bothered me (like he wasn't really concerned about my welfare or being safe). I was gone from 4 pm until they closed at 8 pm. During that time, I had my phone turned to vibrate so I could chat with my friend without interruptions. My husband called and texted several times while I was gone, saying he was worried about me. When I saw that he called after I left my friend, I called him. Turns out he had stopped with my sons in tow to check on me and said he actually looked in the window to make sure I was there (denied this later). I insisted that it was very unusual for me to be gone so long (it was not unusual at all). This was a red flag that he was suspicious that I was cheating on him and made me think that this was something he was doing himself - meeting someone at Starbucks. I later found some records of Starbucks visits in his checking records ... but he doesn't drink coffee ever and has only been to Starbucks a couple times with me during the whole time we've been together ...

2 - Restaurant manager. As a family, we went to his restaurant to eat on a day off. He called to one of the female servers in a suggestive sounding way (initial red flag about her - however, I have never observed him being flirty outside of this incident). She ignored him and went on past. Most of the servers will come to see him, but she did not. About a year after this, he asked the same woman to be our server. I never voiced my suspicions of her. When he asked for her, I thought, "Well, if he's cheating with her, he surely wouldn't ask her to be our server." Turns out, once I found out about narcissism, this is EXACTLY what he would do. This is to throw me off the scent and also put her in her place (devalues and embarrasses her). All of the servers are at least somewhat nervous or uncomfortable serving him as their manager. But this woman was EXTREMELY uncomfortable and didn't chat it up with him at all.

3- THE LIE - Lie in mid July, he got off work early but didn't tell me (most of the time, he will let me know when he gets off work and is on his way home - I never asked him to do this - he just did it). I stopped by his work (which is rare) to ask him something. It was about an hour before I expected him finish up. The other manager working that day came out and told me my husband had left an hour before. I was embarrassed but made an excuse that we must have crossed paths. I went straight home, wondering if he would be there. He wasn't, but I had gotten a text from him saying was done and on his way home. I called him and asked where he was. He said he was on his way home. I told him about stopping by work and that they said he left over an hour ago. Stone. Cold. Silence. I asked him if he was hiding something from me. He said he was not and that he was sorry he didn't tell me that he was going to stop by Wal Mart. He apologized for being selfish but insisted he wasn't hiding anything. I absolutely knew he was lying. When he got home, he poured the attention on thick and claimed over and over again that he wasn't hiding anything. I told him it was over (meaning, let's just drop it - no big deal), but inside I was hurt and furious. I watched him out the window as he left in his car to go pick up our son and saw his frustrated gesture as he hit his hand on the steering wheel.

4 - Found 3 packs of brand new boxer briefs in his car while snooping. A week later, one pair was missing. I found that pair in the laundry (they were different colors, so I knew which one was missing). He had worn them before washing (still had new smell), which he doesn't normally do. Why would a guy keep packs of underwear in the trunk of his car? This underwear was worn after a very late night at work on a Monday. The restaurant closed at 8:30, and he (supposedly) didn't get off until after midnight (on a Monday ...) His hours do vary, but this was extreme and highly suspicious. I didn't yet have a tracker on his vehicle yet at this point.

5 -When he wondered why I seemed so distant with him, he asked if it was because I found out he had masturbated (this time I didn't know about). He kept pushing, and I went "gray rock" on him, not revealing anything new and hardly saying a word (this was because I wasn't going to give him any information that he would try to justify or know that I was onto him). He said, "Do you think I'm seeing someone? or looking at porn?" I never accused him of cheating at this point or looking at porn, so I believe he was asking this to find out what I was suspicious of. I also strongly believe that these things are true - that he's been cheating on me and looking at porn.

After I had the tracker and VARs in place, he found my diary on my computer accidentally a few weeks ago when I forgot to shut down one night (telling ALL that I suspected of him). He printed out all 13 pages of it and wanted to discuss (and dispel) every point. He came to me as if I was the guilty party. He had to go to work that day and asked me to save the pages for us to discuss later. I decided to shred the papers and lock down all my devices like Fort Knox. He was furious when he found out and tried to get me to print the pages off again. I refused, saying that he claimed he had read it all, so we could discuss whatever he wanted, but that he was not going to see my private diary again.

6 - Says he has been lying about his whereabouts for at least 10 years (but will never lie to me again) He downplayed the lies, saying it was all just silly really and there was no reason for him to lie.

7 - For the past 3-4 years, sex only a handful of times total, and this was only with me initiating. I have a hard time wanting to have sex with him because he ignores me most of the time, is a very poor listener, and is quick to yell at me over the slightest thing. Have tried to talk about our marriage lots of times over the years and generally get nowhere. When asking him for regular date nights, he replied that we could work on that type of thing when the boys are grown (denied saying this when I brought it up - he says we have a different memory of things that happened)

8 - Since tracking his vehicle, he frequently stops at various stores on the way to work. Leaves to go to work 30 minutes before he needs to be there, but it only takes 10 minutes to get there. After reading about my suspicions, he made a video to show me what he does at the various stops. Basically, he's just getting some "alone time" and eating a snack before work.

9- Heard on VAR him saying very clearly - "You going down on me - really?" Haven't listened to the full recording yet. I think this was either him exchanging texts with someone or online chatting. It wasn't a live conversation, but him responding out loud to something written.

I believe he either has a second phone or has a way where he's deleting the traces of his cheating. Since he found my diary about my suspicions of him, he has insisted that he wants a spy tracker on his phone, which leads me to believe he is hiding his activities on a second phone. He's trying to convince me that he has never cheated, but why does someone lie for years about their whereabouts when it's harmless? I just don't believe him.


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## recovering2018 (Sep 9, 2021)

So he's a narcissist, has admitted to lying to you for 10 years, you rarely have sex, and you are uncomfortable around him. 

I don't know why you're worried about catching him cheating. To many, the lying is worse. He probably has cheated, but all the other confirmed facts are more than enough to file for D (divorce).

Just file and find something or someone fulfilling. You're wasting away worrying about the wrong things.


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## MtMoriah (Sep 29, 2021)

I do plan to file eventually, but I'm thinking that waiting until my youngest son is 18 would make things less messy. This is 4-1/2 years away. I am working on consulting with a lawyer in order to plan my escape and know my rights. I also have an online business that I don't want to share with him.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

OK, if you're 99.9% sure he's cheating, why don't you just file for divorce and get rid of this cheater? Does that extra 0.1% really matter? You're just going to get a lot of frustration and heartache. 

It looks like you're already knowledgeable about collecting evidence, given the fact that you have VARs in place, etc. The question is, what is the goal of getting this evidence? Are you planning to get some sort of reconciliation? If not, then why go through the effort? just file for divorce.

Here's the problem with reconciliation: you will always be filled with doubt. The marriage has already been tainted. Likely, you'll be finding that you are playing "policeman/detective" for years to come. Is this what you want?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@MtMoriah

I merged your 2 threads as they were on the same topic.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You are a wife and a mother. Your husband is not really a husband and not really a father.

What to do?


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## MtMoriah (Sep 29, 2021)

MattMatt said:


> You are a wife and a mother. Your husband is not really a husband and not really a father.
> 
> What to do?


Yes, this is true. We have been like roommates for the past few years. I've even told him this, and nothing changes.


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## MtMoriah (Sep 29, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> @MtMoriah
> 
> I merged your 2 threads as they were on the same topic.


Thank you - I lost the first one and thought it had been deleted.


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## MtMoriah (Sep 29, 2021)

I would like to be able to prove the cheating for myself. That's the only way I believe a reconciliation could possibly happen, even though I'm doubtful that it would happen even then. If he is confronted with the truth of what he's done and knows that I know, he will have no choice but to completely come clean or it's over. Most likely, it would be over anyway. He knows that cheating is a deal breaker. In my opinion, there's no good reason to cheat EVER. I also believe that most cheaters never stop cheating. I would never be able to trust him again - or I should say I WILL NEVER be able to trust him again at this point. 
Lying is very serious IMO. Ironically, I always thought he could never lie to me, as he seemed so transparent. 

I know the marriage is over and has been for years. I've wanted to leave him for awhile now, years before THE LIE, due to his emotional abuse. 

However, I don't want to damage my sons. Now is bearable, and I can stand up to him if he is being too hard on the boys. He is a pretty good dad, and they do lots of outdoorsy stuff with him. If we had joint custody, they would be out of my sight too much of the time, and I fear that he would use them to get at me. There are also money issues, and I don't want him to have half my business. My tentative plan is to wait out the 4-1/2 years until my youngest is 18, then file without wanting anything from him at all. I plan to be completely independent of him financially by then (we have separate accounts and credit cards).


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

Uh, does he know about the VAR? That line about someone going down on him seems to be proof enough.

If you’re gonna try to wait it out for the 4.5 years, make sure to cover all your bases. Consult an attorney for the nitty gritty stuff.

If you’re hoping to catch him red-handed, you could try to hire a PI to see where he really is or a recovery program for deleted messages, but frankly it’s not worth the energy. You’re better off protecting yourself and getting things in order for you to leave.


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## MtMoriah (Sep 29, 2021)

Yeah, that's what I thought about the VAR recording, but as a narc he can explain just about anything away ... which is probably why catching him red-handed is likely not worth it - except that I would know that he knows that I know ...

He did not know about the VAR when that recording was taken. He knows I have used them after the fact (ever since reading my diary). I am also placing them in the house when I leave in strategic places to hear his phone calls. It's taking me some time to listen back through them when he's gone. 

Thought about hiring a PI, but I agree that it's not worth it. I've spent too much money already, and it's exhausting just doing what I'm doing with the GPS tracker and VARs. I don't want to police him for the next 4.5 years. I have begun to get everything in order and will be seeing a lawyer soon.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

Sounds like your head’s in a good place. How about emotionally? You feeling ok? If needed, be sure to get into individual counseling.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Since you've both invaded each other's privacy, just be aware that none of that can be used in court and is not useful for that reason and also that either one of you could sue the other for invading their privacy. Unless you both had permission from the other to do it.

You're right that people who cheat and are always looking for an opportunity to do so are often of the mindset that everyone else thinks like them and therefore they are overly suspicious because they're projecting. They are usually completely wrong. But you'll never convince them of that because they think anyone in their right mind would cheat if they had a good opportunity where they were unlikely to get caught and they believe that women have such opportunities all the time. 

The bottom line here is do you want to stay married and if so do you want to stay married to him? He is leading such a covert life that it's highly unlikely even counseling would help him and he's even admitted it so he doesn't have any remorse about it. In other words he's not going to change so you have to just decide if it's worth it.


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## MtMoriah (Sep 29, 2021)

Spoons027 said:


> Sounds like your head’s in a good place. How about emotionally? You feeling ok? If needed, be sure to get into individual counseling.


Thanks for your concern. I'm good most days, but today when I made the appointment with the attorney I cried a bit ... I do have a referral to a counselor I'm considering. I also have lots of friend support. The last couple months have been a roller coaster ride for me - knew the marriage wasn't so great, but I've been grieving what I thought I had.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

It's nice that you have an IRL support group as well. Be careful. When the time comes for all this to blow up, he might get nasty. Maybe keep a VAR on your person in case he tries gaslighting you about past events again.

Hang in there, OP. It's ok to grieve, but keep pushing forward. If it were so easy to move on from, it wouldn't be so painful or sad.

One foot in front of the other.


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## MtMoriah (Sep 29, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Since you've both invaded each other's privacy, just be aware that none of that can be used in court and is not useful for that reason and also that either one of you could sue the other for invading their privacy. Unless you both had permission from the other to do it.
> 
> You're right that people who cheat and are always looking for an opportunity to do so are often of the mindset that everyone else thinks like them and therefore they are overly suspicious because they're projecting. They are usually completely wrong. But you'll never convince them of that because they think anyone in their right mind would cheat if they had a good opportunity where they were unlikely to get caught and they believe that women have such opportunities all the time.
> 
> The bottom line here is do you want to stay married and if so do you want to stay married to him? He is leading such a covert life that it's highly unlikely even counseling would help him and he's even admitted it so he doesn't have any remorse about it. In other words he's not going to change so you have to just decide if it's worth it.


I am aware that none of my evidence will necessarily be able to be used in a courtroom setting. However, to say that we've "both invaded each other's privacy" is not a very accurate statement. You can view it that way in order to show us as equals, but my angle and his are not equal. I am seeking TRUTH by tracking him and what he says - he is seeking to justify and counter what I am thinking by reading and printing off my diary. Nothing in this is equal.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

MtMoriah said:


> I am aware that none of my evidence will necessarily be able to be used in a courtroom setting. However, to say that we've "both invaded each other's privacy" is not a very accurate statement. You can view it that way in order to show us as equals, but my angle and his are not equal. I am seeking TRUTH by tracking him and what he says - he is seeking to justify and counter what I am thinking by reading and printing off my diary. Nothing in this is equal.


My only point about that was that unless it's something you two agreed on, there are laws against invasion of privacy should anyone choose to get sticky about it during a divorce or whatever. And of course even if you had a grade on it it would be difficult to prove. I sure wouldn't like anyone reading my diary without permission, and I don't care who it is.


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## MtMoriah (Sep 29, 2021)

Spoons027 said:


> It's nice that you have an IRL support group as well. Be careful. When the time comes for all this to blow up, he might get nasty. Maybe keep a VAR on your person in case he tries gaslighting you about past events again.
> 
> Hang in there, OP. It's ok to grieve, but keep pushing forward. If it were so easy to move on from, it wouldn't be so painful or sad.
> 
> One foot in front of the other.


Thanks! I realize it could get nasty. Taking it one day at a time.


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## MtMoriah (Sep 29, 2021)

Please help me know that I'm not insane ...

Any time lately that a conflict comes up, my husband brings up that I'm treating him like he's cheating. He then goes on (ad nauseam) about how I'm causing him problems in every situation because I don't believe that his lies for the past 10 years were harmless (and that he has not cheated - "no matter what evidence you think you have"). 

He said he lied only in that one area of his life (where he was before and after work). He's angry (but won't admit that he's angry). Basically, he's angry at me because I don't believe that he didn't cheat on me because of his (admitted) lies about his whereabouts for the past 10 years. When I try to engage in an adult conversation, it's twisted and turned (as usual), and I'm made out to be the guilty, angry one ...


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## MtMoriah (Sep 29, 2021)

So, am I wrong to suspect that he's cheated on me since he's lied about his whereabouts for the past 10 years? Who does this??? Who lies about nothing for no reason???


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

MtMoriah said:


> Please help me know that I'm not insane ...
> 
> Any time lately that a conflict comes up, my husband brings up that I'm treating him like he's cheating. He then goes on (ad nauseam) about how I'm causing him problems in every situation because I don't believe that his lies for the past 10 years were harmless (and that he has not cheated - "no matter what evidence you think you have").
> 
> He said he lied only in that one area of his life (where he was before and after work). He's angry (but won't admit that he's angry). Basically, he's angry at me because I don't believe that he didn't cheat on me because of his (admitted) lies about his whereabouts for the past 10 years. When I try to engage in an adult conversation, it's twisted and turned (as usual), and I'm made out to be the guilty, angry one ...


If you are dealing with a covert narcissist then you are in for a ride. Has he been diagnosed as one? Who cannot compare the machinations of any narcissist with an ordinary human being and more so get others to understand all their word salad, gaslighting and ********. And yes, if he is a CN he is up to no good behind your back. F*** his privacy and go into stealth mode and find out what is happening in your relationship. You do not owe him privacy or loyalty, take care of yourself cause he wont think twice of stiffing you. Lying in a relationship undermines its very foundations, and you have every right to use whatever means at your disposal to find out what he is doing. PI, Vars, whatever and don't for one minute let anyone on here tell you otherwise.

From your H response, he doesn't give a **** about how his lying has affected you, it creates trauma and is basically gas lighting to make you unstable and unsure of your reality. He is a piece of work. He is angry because you are beginning to see him for who he really is and are no longer the naïve wife who he can wrap around his finger. As I say go into stealth mode. Stop confronting him, that will not help, collect evidence. Record (with your smart phone) his conversations with you, they eventually trip themselves up as they forget what they said before. They are not that intelligent to be honest. You can play him at his own game, just do not let him know you are. The when you have gathered enough evidence, hit him with it and walk away and go no contact.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

noone lies without a reason


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## MtMoriah (Sep 29, 2021)

He fits the descriptions of CN to a T. Has not been formally diagnosed, but I'm SURE he is due to the uncanny resemblance to all that I've read in the past 6-7 months on the disorder. Concerning contradictions, I'm getting quite a few of those, one being that he told me before marriage that he had only slept with 2 women before me. About a week ago, he told me 3 (on his own in one of his many "Do you still believe I've cheated on you?" questioning sessions). I don't initiate arguments, but they inevitably happen even when I'm super careful to avoid him and not bring up anything that even slightly resembles criticism. However, some times (by picking my battles) I HAVE to speak up - usually when it has to do with our sons or when he's subtly putting me down. The only reason we are having any of these discussions about him cheating are because he found my diary on my computer. I was in stealth mode, but that got uncovered (unfortunately). Trying to just lay low for awhile while he gets comfortable being himself again.


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## MtMoriah (Sep 29, 2021)

Another thing that has me a bit unsettled is that he just decided to change careers a month ago, but he only told me that he was going to give his notice at work a few days beforehand. He's 55 years old. He justified this by saying it was a sudden change for him too. He was a restaurant manager, but things were very hard. He started trucking school a little over a week ago and is planning to drive locally. It could be a good change, but I'm still suspicious.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

It’s definitely suspicious. Either he’s hiding something, or he’s a pathological liar, or maybe even both. Why else would he need to lie over many years?

A career change could also affect the amount of support or alimony he will have to pay in the event you divorce. But don’t quote me on that.

So what do you plan to do about it? What are your next steps?


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## MtMoriah (Sep 29, 2021)

I will be seeing an attorney next week for the first time. That's what my next step is (along with trying to avoid fights and entanglements). I'm making up a list of questions I want to ask the lawyer. Any extra ideas for questions would be much appreciated. I'm asking things like, "Will it make a difference in the money if I wait to divorce him when the kids are adults?" and if the lawyer has experience with a covert narcissist.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

MtMoriah said:


> He fits the descriptions of CN to a T. Has not been formally diagnosed, but I'm SURE he is due to the uncanny resemblance to all that I've read in the past 6-7 months on the disorder.


Wait he hasn't been officially diagnosed by a licensed mental health professional and yet you're labeling him a narcissist in the titled of this thread and in multiple posts?! Just because you read about it on the internet and it seems to fit? That's irresponsible and just plain wrong.


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## MtMoriah (Sep 29, 2021)

Trident said:


> Wait he hasn't been officially diagnosed by a licensed mental health professional and yet you're labeling him a narcissist in the titled of this thread and in multiple posts?! Just because you read about it on the internet and it seems to fit? That's irresponsible and just plain wrong.


You're clearly very naive and ignorant concerning what a covert narcissist is ... They rarely, if ever, get diagnosed, because they're happy as they are. Yes, I am POSITIVE this is what he is. Shall I list all the reasons? I have been married to this man for 20 years, and he has done all the things that point to narcissism, which include gaslighting, deflecting, blame shifting, shaming, twisting, projecting, anger out of the blue over small things. And you're calling me IRRESPONSIBLE???

Please don't undermine what I've gone through by saying that it's just "irresponsible and wrong" to call him a covert narcissist. It took me YEARS to figure out what this monster Dr. Jeckle and Mr Hyde that I was married to was all about, and I can see him clearly now. You can't convince me otherwise.


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## MtMoriah (Sep 29, 2021)

Can anyone recommend someone who can clear up about an hour's worth of audio for me? Thanks!


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## MtMoriah (Sep 29, 2021)

I have an update on the VAR recording. I have some things that are much more clear. I can hear him talking with someone named "Jen," and she's the one to whom he said "You going down on me - really?" With the GPS tracker, I knew he then went to Wal Mart and was there for about 25 minutes. At one point, I can hear a woman's voice in the distance say, "Hey [husband's name]. You look very handsome" (in a sing-song, flirty voice). After listening back over this multiple times, I'm certain of what I'm hearing. *QUESTION: Is this a regular thing for men to meet women that they connect with online in parking lots for, say, blow jobs or hand jobs? Anyone hear of this before? I'm trying to wrap my brain around it all, as this isn't how my brain works ... *(At one point, he was keeping new packs of underwear in the trunk of his car (before he totaled the car). 

Gathering evidence and have a spy app on his laptop. I believe he's using the TOR browser to conceal his secrets, but this spy app shows the TOR browsing.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MtMoriah said:


> I have an update on the VAR recording. I have some things that are much more clear. I can hear him talking with someone named "Jen," and she's the one to whom he said "You going down on me - really?" With the GPS tracker, I knew he then went to Wal Mart and was there for about 25 minutes. At one point, I can hear a woman's voice in the distance say, "Hey [husband's name]. You look very handsome" (in a sing-song, flirty voice). After listening back over this multiple times, I'm certain of what I'm hearing. *QUESTION: Is this a regular thing for men to meet women that they connect with online in parking lots for, say, blow jobs or hand jobs? Anyone hear of this before? I'm trying to wrap my brain around it all, as this isn't how my brain works ... *(At one point, he was keeping new packs of underwear in the trunk of his car (before he totaled the car).
> 
> Gathering evidence and have a spy app on his laptop. I believe he's using the TOR browser to conceal his secrets, but this spy app shows the TOR browsing.


Uhhh… it might be a normal thing for the guys that engage in that type of behavior but as for it being a “normal guy thing” …?

No. Not at all.

Also, props on your info gathering operation. 👍🏻


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## MtMoriah (Sep 29, 2021)

GusPolinski said:


> Uhhh… it might be a normal thing for the guys that engage in that type of behavior but as for it being a “normal guy thing” …?
> 
> No. Not at all.
> 
> Also, props on your info gathering operation. 👍🏻


Yeah, I didn't think it was a normal guy thing - just wondered if anyone on here has heard of it being done. I'm having to gear my brain toward a whole other way of thinking since catching my husband lying to me.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

I was in your place 6 years ago. Suspected H was cheating with a coworker, found flirty but not explicit texts, much evidence of deleted texts and call logs, he did all the gaslighting, blame shifting stuff that they describe as CN behaviour. We went to a MC whom he lied to. Kept telling us both he was an open book, no more contact with this coworker, no more deleting...but he continued to. I also found Tinder access codes saved to his phone which he said he never used-i couldnt find any evidence that he ever went farther than requesting an access code. He said it was curiosity and he didnt follow through. I put a VAr in his car but never could hear anything much.

Once when i called him i heard what sounded like someone giving him a BJ- him groaning and some sighing.... he had a whole litany of lies to excuse this. The MC said he wouldnt answer the phone if that was happening.... I disagree- they are a different kind of breed and answering the phone may have made it more exciting- I gps his phone and have for years. I've never found evidence that would point to him having an affair with her outside of work hours. During work hours who knows- lots of opportunities.

The counselors all have said they dont think he has had an affair. They think it was a crush and a flirtation and thats all. They also think that he is a compulsive liar. He has lied about where he is several times for no particular reason-or so it seems. I left him 2 summers ago for 3 months but came back because the kids were upset with me- said he was crying every night....I came back because it was easier. Easier on the kids, easier on me in many ways (he does absolutely everything other than cooking and cleaning.) We get along really well, have great sex, and laugh alot. Also I had an affair 30 years ago which he knows about so I am certainly not blameless or blemish free. And I'm in my 60's no spring chicken.

He treats me well, is complimentary and great company, rarely raises his voice, is a good dad....but I will never trust him again. That naivety is gone. I cant imagine not tracking him or looking at his call logs. I am spending less time on my sleuthing but i still spend a couple of hours a day- trying to make sure i haven't missed anything... It interferes with my feelings for him-and myself. I dont think you can love someone deeply and not trust them. 

I have pursued friendships, hobbies, rekindled childhood friendships and travelled. I am happy but not settled. We both know that I am strong enough to leave and that I have an alternate place to go. He knows that if there is ever something else I find I will be gone and never look back. So thats how it is. Not everyones cup of tea for sure. Certainly not ideal but it works on some level ...for now...I can change my situation whenever 

I hear you and I sympathize with you. Its a total mind screw. But when you know the signs and symptoms you can keep yourself 6 degrees apart .


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