# I don't want a divorce!



## judderi (Nov 28, 2011)

I've been going thru an emotional roller coaster for the last three weeks, due to what my wife has told me but more about what she is still not telling me. She says shes sorry for what shes done, but that if I trusted her then I wouldnt have problems with her still being friends with the people in question.

The hardest thing for me is that she hasn't come to me with tears in her eyes, sat me down and said, hunny im so sorry for what I've done, it will never happen again, you are the person I want to be with, the person I love, and I realize that I've hurt you. What can I do to help you to be able to get past this and move on?

I have tried to reason with her. I have tried to plead with her to try to understand what im feeling and going thru, I have cried and wept, and held her in my arms and have told her how much I love her and that I never want to loose her. she says she's sorry but that i need to let it go because what happend really wasnt a big deal because there was no love involved. it was just a stupid mistake and I need to move on. 
This made me angry! so then I gave ultimatums. No more Hidding your texts, I have the right to read them. No more sexting, no more communication with the person at work that you still have to see evey week at work. 

You can imagine the reponce to that. You are not my father!! You are not my Boss!! You can't tell me what to do!! I can do what ever I want!!!

Needless to say, all of my efforts to help her understand that I needed more from her weren't working!!
I asked friends and family, they all said, if she isnt willing to do the things you've asked then it's over.
I couldn't do that. I love her, 3 wonderfull kids. Im not ready to call it quits!!

Finaly I talked to someone who helped me understand what the problem was. He said, "do you want to get a divorce". I said no. He then said, "then you need to get over it. Your wife is going thru something in her life right now that everyone goes thru at some point in time. She doesnt understand what she wants or where she wants to be and shes trying to figure it out. she need to know that no matter what happens you will forgive her, and you will always be there for her. if you want this marraige to last then dont ever talk about again. Don't ever bring it up in anger and use it agenst her. Dont ever tell her she is wrong for what she did. Smile, be happy, be better then you have ever been in your life. Give her every reason to want to be with you.

She knows that what she has done and what she is doing is wrong. That is why she is so defensive about it. You trying to convence her that what she has done and is doing is wrong will only make her more angry. It will only drive a larger wedge between you. She has to come to this realization on her own. She has to want to change. she has to want to make you the most important person in her life. She has to do it herself. No ultimatums, crying, weeping, telling her how bad you feel inside will ever change her. It will only make things worse. 

If you want to stay married then it's your responsbility to forgive and forget. 

To put some perspective on it, dont look at where you are right now, or how you feel right now. Imagine your self 10 years down the road, married to the love of your life and have a wonderfull fufilling relationship with your wife. In 10 years you will look back on this as a small bump in the road. Just another learning lesson in life. Just like when you broke up with your first girlfriend. At the time life wasnt worth living. but now you can look back on that experiance without pain. It was just a bump in the road.

Give her her space. Yes what she has done and is doing is wrong and hurtfull to you and your family. But you can't change her. You can't force her to be the person you want her to be. You can't force her to feel the pain that you feel. 
And the only way she will ever change and be the person she need to be is if you are willing to suffer the heart ache and pain, but keep your mouth shut and a smile on your face. It may take 6 weeks. It may take 6 months, but if you think the marraige is worth it then its the only way to save it. 

Love her unconditionaly, without spite, and anger. If in the end It doesnt work, then you have done all you could do. But If it's still worth the effort then do it. right now. Dont have one more conversation with about anything other than how much you love her and that you will always be there for her. NO MATTER WHAT.


----------



## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Wow, judderi! In your pain and misery, you managed to find someone who gave you impressively bad advice. And it appears that you swallowed it hook, line, and sinker. 

You just go right ahead and love her unconditionally, and give her space, and don't set any boundaries. Be sensitive and caring. If she hurts your feelings, have a good cry in front of her. Oh, and, yeah, never, ever talk about her sexual relationship with her coworker, either- just deal with it.

In 10 years, your wife will long since have lost any respect she had for you, and she will be with someone else. But that will be okay, because you won't respect yourself either.

You should start with some personal counseling, to work on your self esteem and "how to set boundaries in your relationship." But it's your life, and if you choose to live like this, you will get deserve everything you get!


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Sorry, but rug sweeping never works. This someone you talked to knows nothing about infidelity. So you think in 10 years this will just be a bump in the road? Seriously? 

6 weeks or 6 months? Is that all it takes to get over it? 

It seems that you are determined to sweep this under the rug. Perhaps you need to suffer more pain as your WW hooks up with OM#2, OM#3, etc, etc, or gives you an incurable STD because we all know that they ALWAYS use protection when they have affair sex. No consequences for her actions equals no motivation to stop. But go ahead and listen to your friend.


----------



## Bugz Bunny (Nov 28, 2011)

I've been reading on this forum for a month or so and I post and try to help on another forum when I have time for it...the thing that makes me angry is not her cheating,its your reaction on her cheating that makes me angry...

She disrespected you and your children and you are allowing her to continue with this behavior by allowing her to work with OM and be in constant contact with him....by allowing this she will continue to disrespect and humiliate you and your children,and why is it so...??? It's because you have no respect for yourself...You said that you dont want to lose her and she knows that and thats why she knows she can continue with her disgusting behavior...You must man up and file for divorce so that she knows that you are serious and remember you can allways stop divorce if things get better...

P.S. And remember no consequences for her actions and behavior equals no motivation to stop and work on her marriage and see the damage that she has done...


----------



## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

> She says shes sorry for what shes done, but that if I trusted her then I wouldnt have problems with her still being friends with the people in question.


This is called blame shifitng, 



> The hardest thing for me is that she hasn't come to me with tears in her eyes, sat me down and said, hunny im so sorry for what I've done, it will never happen again, you are the person I want to be with, the person I love, and I realize that I've hurt you. What can I do to help you to be able to get past this and move on?


No Remorse.. bad





> I have tried to reason with her. I have tried to plead with her to try to understand what im feeling and going thru, I have cried and wept, and held her in my arms and have told her how much I love her and that I never want to loose her.


This is pointless. She sees you as a doormat who will accept anything. 
This must stop. 



> she says she's sorry but that i need to let it go because what happend really wasnt a big deal because there was no love involved. it was just a stupid mistake and I need to move on.


No remorse. Bad.



> This made me angry! so then I gave ultimatums. No more Hidding your texts, I have the right to read them. No more sexting, no more communication with the person at work that you still have to see evey week at work.


This is good. She needs to understand that you will not accept this. She has to leave her job. She has to be totally transparent and do whatever required to keep you. 



> You can imagine the reponce to that. You are not my father!! You are not my Boss!! You can't tell me what to do!! I can do what ever I want!!!


She is trying to keep the affair going. When you said that she lost contol and that was the best thing you have done. If she wants to continue the affair she must leave. 




> I asked friends and family, they all said, if she isnt willing to do the things you've asked then it's over.


Yes.You need to mean this.



> I couldn't do that. I love her, 3 wonderfull kids. Im not ready to call it quits!!


You have already lost her. She just had sex with another man and then told you that you need to get over it. I suspect the affair is ongoing..



> Finaly I talked to someone who helped me understand what the problem was. He said, "do you want to get a divorce". I said no. He then said, "then you need to get over it. Your wife is going thru something in her life right now that everyone goes thru at some point in time. She doesnt understand what she wants or where she wants to be and shes trying to figure it out. she need to know that no matter what happens you will forgive her, and you will always be there for her. if you want this marraige to last then dont ever talk about again. Don't ever bring it up in anger and use it agenst her. Dont ever tell her she is wrong for what she did. Smile, be happy, be better then you have ever been in your life. Give her every reason to want to be with you.


Rubbish. If you do this you will absolutely lose her. She will have ZERO respect for you and you will get less and less attractive. Others will tell you lots of counter-unitutive advice. Follow it. 



> She knows that what she has done and what she is doing is wrong
> . That is why she is so defensive about it.


She is defensive because the wants to continue the affair. I think she is 
asking you for permission to have it..



> You trying to convence her that what she has done and is doing is wrong will only make her more angry. It will only drive a larger wedge between you. She has to come to this realization on her own. She has to want to change. she has to want to make you the most important person in her life. She has to do it herself. No ultimatums, crying, weeping, telling her how bad you feel inside will ever change her. It will only make things worse.
> 
> If you want to stay married then it's your responsbility to forgive and forget.
> To put some perspective on it, dont look at where you are right now, or how you feel right now. Imagine your self 10 years down the road, married to the love of your life and have a wonderfull fufilling relationship with your wife. In 10 years you will look back on this as a small bump in the road. Just another learning lesson in life. Just like when you broke up with your first girlfriend. At the time life wasnt worth living. but now you can look back on that experiance without pain. It was just a bump in the road.
> ...


This is astonishingly bad advice. Do exactly the opposite.


----------



## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

If you want to turn yourself into a pressure cooker of resentment and misery then by all means, go ahead.
I'd advise you to take control of:
1: Your life
2: The influence you WW has in your life

To help put things into perspective, I'm nearly 7 months out from D-Day. I've been in survival mode, denial, anger, depression and I'm now starting to see things with clarity. This is because I have been dealing with things and not ingoring them. I admit that I have to deal with them at my own pace and in my own way, but I can't ignore them.
As I am dealing with things my mind is slowly edging towards divorce over reconciliation - not in a nasty power tripping attempt to get her to be what I want her to be - but rather in a 'I genuinely believe divorce may be the most beneficial move forwards for all of us' kind of way. And I told her as much.
After D-Day I leanred some things about myself that I didn't like and have made great strides in changing them, however she also needs to change and unless she starts to make progress then I will not be able to heal with her there and I would have to separate to move forward and heal. I will wait a while and see what happens, but I am totally at peace with moving forwards without her if needs be.
Your WW has changed the foundation of your relationship and you MUST take care of yourself. If you sweep it under the rug you will trip over it time and time again. (and it'd be your fault remember, not hers because you agreed to take the blame)
It has taken me 7 long months to see some things with clarity, but I'm getting there because I deal with it.
I am at peace with myself and the options I am creating for myself as I move forward. I am a happier man now in being able to see where I am in relation to my life, than I had been for the three years previous.
Don't give in.
Take control and deal with the situation.


----------



## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

The advice you have taken is probably the worst advice for someone who is trying to wake his cheating wife out of her fog. She will eat cake and "try to find herself". But all you will find is her under another man.


----------



## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

I don't want a divorce either, but my WH is unwilling to give up his cake (OW), and so... onward I go. I refuse to be treated that way... bad enough he got away with it as long as he did.


----------



## aeg512 (Mar 22, 2011)

There is one thing you need to remember. With your WW actions there is no reason to trust her at the present time and that is something she must earn over time. You need to get into IC to be capable of telling her that to her face. Also, you have said you do not want to divorce, you must see a lawyer and put this on the table. You are allowing your WW to walk all over you. Is this a good example to show children? I am like others, if you do not establish boundries, she will have another OM2 soon.


----------



## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Like what everyone else said, your friend is an idiot and doesn't know what they are talking about.



judderi said:


> I have tried to reason with her. I have tried to plead with her to try to understand what im feeling and going thru, I have cried and wept, and held her in my arms and have told her how much I love her and that I never want to loose her. she says she's sorry but that i need to let it go because what happend really wasnt a big deal because there was no love involved. it was just a stupid mistake and I need to move on.


She doesn't care about your feelings, she only cares about her own. When you tell her how hurt you are and try to reason with her it just makes you look pathetic in her eyes. This shows weakness and makes her want to walk all over you and disrespects you more.


> This made me angry! so then I gave ultimatums. No more Hidding your texts, I have the right to read them. No more sexting, no more communication with the person at work that you still have to see evey week at work.


Good, anger can be your friend. You are married so you are in your right to demand this.


> You can imagine the reponce to that. You are not my father!! You are not my Boss!! You can't tell me what to do!! I can do what ever I want!!!


What is she, 12?

NO, she can't do "whatever she wants" and STILL BE MARRIED. Tell her to get the hell out then! You are her husband and you can tell her what to do in this case IF she wants to stay married. How dare her talk to you like this when SHE cheated on you!

You can not be nice to her, she has to suffer some negative consequences or else she will do it again and you will start to resent her more and more because she got away with it.

She needs to understand that what she did is grounds for a divorce and IT IS A BIG DEAL. You need to be prepared to kick her to the curb until she learns to be remorseful. If you don't stand up for yourself and take control of the situation this WILL end badly for you. You can't rug sweep it, you should actually file for a divorce to show how important this is to you and let her know you mean business.

You tell her you don't want anything to do with her and then wait for her to show true remorse. Right now she is just putting up a front and probably feels no love for you since she is being so disrespectful of your feelings. She is "acting" like she wants to stay married but she is just settling. You can't accept that and don't have to.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

First, the person who told you to let it go and get over it, gave you horrendous advice. In fact, its the one path that WILL most likely end in divorce, because it kills off any respect your wife might have for you, and no woman is going to stay with a man they don't respect.

So, first - the fact that she won't let you see her texts, and won't give you full transparency, strongly says that she is still cheating. She doesn't want to be open, because she knows it will interfere with her affair.

Second, stop turning to her for help with your pain. She doesn't care. Look at her reactions - she just wants you to stop and let her get back to her love affair.

Know that you absolutely have the RIGHT as a husband to set boundaries on your wife's behavior in a marriage. You have the RIGHT to demand that she doesn't have an affair, and that she doesn't hang with people who she's had an affair with.

Right now, all you've done is be a doormat who caves at her smallest threat. Meanwhile, she not only has no remorse, she is actively downplaying the extent of the affair, and is likely continuing it.

This isn't something she's going through and will eventually get tired of - this is her engaging in a love affair with another MAN. This is her and him working on creating an ALTERNATIVE relationship that will eventually result in her leaving you and the kids for HIM.


----------



## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

If the roles were reversed do you think that your wife would be so accepting as you have been? You are acting weak and spineless. Nobody respects a doormat. If you do not respect yourself then who will? Both of you need to be checked for STD's.


----------



## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

QUOTE=judderi;494289]I've been going thru an emotional roller coaster for the last three weeks, due to what my wife has told me but more about what she is still not telling me. She says shes sorry for what shes done, but that if I trusted her then I wouldnt have problems with her still being friends with the people in question. *This is not true remorse. She is not sorry. If she was truly sorry, those questionable friends would have been booted without a second thought. Something's up still*

The hardest thing for me is that she hasn't come to me with tears in her eyes, sat me down and said, hunny im so sorry for what I've done, it will never happen again, you are the person I want to be with, the person I love, and I realize that I've hurt you. What can I do to help you to be able to get past this and move on? *I hear ya. That is what I wanted and I never got it.. It's so very hard.*

I have tried to reason with her. I have tried to plead with her to try to understand what im feeling and going thru, I have cried and wept, and held her in my arms and have told her how much I love her and that I never want to loose her. *We all do this but this is wrong. You just gave her the power*she says she's sorry but that i need to let it go because what happend really wasnt a big deal because there was no love involved. it was just a stupid mistake and I need to move on. *She's not accepting responsibility for what happened which means most likely she is still involved and is not willing to let go. She is gas-lighting you, and giving you a major run around. You need to become stronger than you have ever been before in your life*
This made me angry! so then I gave ultimatums. No more Hidding your texts, I have the right to read them. No more sexting, no more communication with the person at work that you still have to see evey week at work. *Stay firm with this, if she refuses, leave her.*

You can imagine the reponce to that. You are not my father!! You are not my Boss!! You can't tell me what to do!! I can do what ever I want!!!
how did you handle this response? As her husband, you absoutley have the right to know what she is doing!
Needless to say, all of my efforts to help her understand that I needed more from her weren't working!!
I asked friends and family, they all said, if she isnt willing to do the things you've asked then it's over.
I couldn't do that. I love her, 3 wonderfull kids. Im not ready to call it quits!! *You don't have to give up yet but you do need to remove yourself for at least the time being. It sounds like she needs a really good taste of what life would be like without you. Take your kids and leave. *

Finaly I talked to someone who helped me understand what the problem was. He said, "do you want to get a divorce". I said no. He then said, "then you need to get over it. Your wife is going thru something in her life right now that everyone goes thru at some point in time. She doesnt understand what she wants or where she wants to be and shes trying to figure it out. she need to know that no matter what happens you will forgive her, and you will always be there for her. if you want this marraige to last then dont ever talk about again. Don't ever bring it up in anger and use it agenst her. Dont ever tell her she is wrong for what she did. Smile, be happy, be better then you have ever been in your life. Give her every reason to want to be with you.*Well that was some crap advice. Your friend just told you to bend over and spread your cheeks.*

She knows that what she has done and what she is doing is wrong. That is why she is so defensive about it. You trying to convence her that what she has done and is doing is wrong will only make her more angry. It will only drive a larger wedge between you. She has to come to this realization on her own. She has to want to change. she has to want to make you the most important person in her life. She has to do it herself. No ultimatums, crying, weeping, telling her how bad you feel inside will ever change her. It will only make things worse. *People who want to change, make the effort. Your wife is making no efforts to change. She's on a cake eating high right now and you keep feeding her more cake!*

If you want to stay married then it's your responsbility to forgive and forget. *Right....then she can just keep on cheating with no consequences for her actions. Yeah, that's how marriages work.....:scratchhead:*

To put some perspective on it, dont look at where you are right now, or how you feel right now. Imagine your self 10 years down the road, married to the love of your life and have a wonderfull fufilling relationship with your wife. In 10 years you will look back on this as a small bump in the road. Just another learning lesson in life. Just like when you broke up with your first girlfriend. At the time life wasnt worth living. but now you can look back on that experiance without pain. It was just a bump in the road.*This is no small bump, my friend. This is the biggest, ugliest, bumpiest, rockiest mountain you have ever faced before in your life. You might as well call this Mt. FvckMe. This is not just a life lesson, this is a life altering event that will forever change everything.*

Give her her space. Yes what she has done and is doing is wrong and hurtfull to you and your family. But you can't change her. You can't force her to be the person you want her to be. You can't force her to feel the pain that you feel. 
And the only way she will ever change and be the person she need to be is if you are willing to suffer the heart ache and pain, but keep your mouth shut and a smile on your face. It may take 6 weeks. It may take 6 months, but if you think the marraige is worth it then its the only way to save it. *Wow, tell your friend to shut up*

Love her unconditionaly, without spite, and anger. If in the end It doesnt work, then you have done all you could do. But If it's still worth the effort then do it. right now. Dont have one more conversation with about anything other than how much you love her and that you will always be there for her. NO MATTER WHAT.[/QUOTE] *Seriously, never ask that friend for marriage advice ever again.*


----------



## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

Sorry you are here. Your story is similar to mine. We have been married for 14 years with 3 children.

Please listen to everyone that posted above. They are correct with their advise.

Now is not the time to be soft. Take it from me and please learn from my mistakes. I tried the softer approach and she dragged her feet and TT'd me for almost a year. This wore me down emotionally and physically. I lost 13 lbs in the first 3 weeks alone. This is not living…it is dying slowly and painfully...and she doesn't care. 

The time to bring full guns to bear is at the beginning of the battle. If she is in the affair fog you can't ease her out of it. You need to shock and awe her out by dropping reality on her like a ton of bricks. Divorce papers will do that…could snap her out of it. You need to be solid iron right now. You need to regain respect.

You need to set up boundaries in your marriage and if she crosses them…she is gone. Make that clear to her. Start a hard 180...work and focus on yourself.

Demand No Contact…or you file for D. 
Demand total transparency…or you file for D. 
Demand passwords for all email, instant messenger…etc…or you file for D.
Demand the whole truth-story with a timeline of their affair…or you file for D.
Demand she seek therapy…or you guessed it…or you file for D.

If she doesn't comply you must file for D. This is the only chance you have to save your marriage or your sanity. Just because you file doesn't mean you have to follow through...you can halt the process is she becomes truly remorseful and wakes up in time. I know it may sound drastic right now but look at what she has done to you, your marriage, and your family….complete disrespect and disregard. 

To make matters worse, she is acting like a troubled teenager saying things like:


> "You are not my father!! You are not my Boss!! You can't tell me what to do!! I can do what ever I want!!!."


 My wife said the same things. Your wife is supposed to have your back, protect your marriage, be your friend, partner, and lover....not some other guys!

Is this what you want from a partner, wife, lover or a friend? A relationship filled with betrayal, lies, deception, secrets, disrespect, and unremorseful behavior? I know you want to save your marriage. I did too but unless she wakes up and does a complete 180 you will start to feel differently about her as time goes on...resentment. The woman you fell in love with is gone. You must realize that now. You are in love with the image of her…not the reality. 

Think of it this way. If you file for D and she dumps him and totally recommits to your marriage then you have a chance. If she decides to leave then you...well, you know where she stands...either way, you will know where you will need to go.

Remember, even if she starts telling you the whole truth or you find out everything on your own like I did, you will still be processing the pain for years to come. Trust may never return. Do you want to spend the rest of your life always wondering where she is, what she is doing and with whom? That's not living! That is not a marriage! 

There is bound to be resentment down the road. Reconciling is a long hard road...but so is divorce. At least divorce has an ending so you can heal and move on. After your wife has cheated you must not fear divorce. She will sense it and continue doing as and who she pleases. 

I am almost 1 year out from D day # 2. D day # 1 one was back in 2009. D day #3 was in April (that is when I found out that it was a PA not an EA) This was the same OM. I have been putting up with her s**t for 2 1/2years! She said she wanted to commit to our marriage back in March but has basically done what your wife has done…nothing…no effort towards R. 

She denies contact with OM (I don't believe her) She will not remove passwords from computer and phone. She still treats me with little respect especially if I want to discuss her affair. She has given up nothing in terms of her freedoms…no consequences for her actions. She has done nothing to show me that she values me, or marriage, and family. As time goes on I have started resenting her and her choices more and more. Now, every time I look at her I see more of the cheating/lying w***e and less of the women I fell in love with. 

I wish I would have filed for D at the point that you are right now….at the beginning. I was afraid of life without her. I was sad and weak...not attractive. I didn't file and I regret it. I took the patient and understanding route as you are being advised. It has been 11 months now and I am still living in hell everyday. My wife has always been selfish and during her affair she got a lot worse. She still has not told me everything and probably never will. She has only now started therapy. She claims NC for 6 months but who really knows…right?

I finally woke up to what a continued life with her would be like and filled for D last week. The papers will be ready soon. I actually feel a sense of relief that I have grew a pair and made to decision. She does not know yet…this should be interesting.

Good luck my friend.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Everyone that replied to you was spot on. 

That was the worst advice you have ever gotten in your life, and it's not close. 

The really fun part is going to be waiting to find that out.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Your getting much better advice here than you received previously.

Letting your wife cheat on you, blame you, and then have no consequences is the worst advice I have ever heard.


----------



## judderi (Nov 28, 2011)

Thank You everybody!! You are all correct. I needed to be told that over and over again because I dont want to come to terms with it. I dont want to make an unwise decisision based on emotions and not know everything. I can tell you that I dont actually think that sex has happend. I cant say for sure but I dont think that shes at that point in her life yet that she would allow that to happen. what I am sure that has happend is that she has madeout with 2 people. I am sure that she has had an emotional affair with others and that why she is unwilling to share her texts with me. I have in the past allowed my slef to have inaproriate relationships with coworks. I have never allowed anything physical to happen but i have allowed myself to have conversations and joke and bond with these people in a way that is inapropriate for someone married to do. I undertsand how easy it is to let down your gaurd and allow even the smallest things to grow into something more inaproiate. It tolk me time to forgive my self as well to let her know what i had done and ask her for her forgiveness and let her know that she has every right to tell me what she needs. But as I look back on it I can say that if I would have been cought in the middle of what I was doing and confronted with that with an ulimatum, at the time im not sure how I would have reacted. At the time i would have probebly reated the same way she is right now. For me I had the ability to realize that what i was doing was wrong. to make my own desision without any pressure or help that I wanted to change. That I wanted her to be my one and only and that I would be able to look at what I have done ,realize what I did and what I need to do to keep myself out of those situations. I have been able to break off all contact with the people, and have never pursued then in any way. Understand that i have forgiven myself. I am a very good looking guy and i could find a wife within a day of a divorce. my biggest flaw is typing.

She is very loving. she wants to spend time with me. She wants me to bring her flowers at work and "mark my teratory". She wants to go on dates and kiss and cuddle and bond. She was able to go to one of her coworkers house and invite me to that. While we were ther she held my hand. She kissed me and showed affection infront of her coworker. She trys to talk to me and does put some effert into listening to what im saying. But she hasnt had the time that I have to come to the realizations that I have come to. She hasnt had the chance to truely look at how far down the road she has allowed herself to go and come to that self realization that I came to over time. how can I force her to do something that I wasnt willing to do at that time in my life. Did I cheat on her? Physicaly no, but emotionaly yes. Did she give an ultimatum at the time? And how would I have reaticted to that if she had?
I truly beleive that I need to be patient with her and allow her to work something out in her mind. I truly beleive that she is trying but that this is so fresh and new for her that its over wheliming to have to make such hard relizations about herself and us over night. I truly beleive that she does want this to work but she just hasnt figured out how to come to term with it.
she has been trying to tell me for years that she's not feeling loved and apritiated. She has tried to expain to me her feeling and thoughts but in all honesty she has terrible comunication skills. I really didnt understand, and I tried. I just didnt feel that way so I had a hard time empathizing. 
This is no excuse for ever having anytype of a relationship. No one can ever blaim there spouse for something they have done. But i can understand how over time its easy to allow certian walls to fall down whitch allow you to justifiey what your doing. And the more time that goes by the more walls that fall down that take you farther and farther from where you were. And at some point in time you have to make the decision to go back and fix those walls or that your going to keep knocking them down. 

she wont let me read her texts yet. She has a hard time talking to me about her frinds at work. she has expalined to me in detail what she says shes done. there are obviously still issues she has to work out. Shes probebly very nervous to let me see her texts because for the last 2 years her friends have been told how misserable she is and how im not doing the things I need to do to help her. If I was in her shoes I would also be very scared to introduse my spouse to that enviroment. If she would have come to my work when I was flurting with others I would have been very uncomfertable to have her there and I dont know how I would have delt with it.
She hasnt cut me out of her life. she invited me to the company christmas party. I could tell she was hesatent to do so but she did. 

I guess I feel that an ultimatum is required when I start seing no progress at all. When I feel that nothing is changing and that we are not moving forward even a little. But for me to give an untimatum in the heat of emotion, and during a time where she needs to be able to work thing out seems counter productive.When i can honestly look at our relationship and say, ok hun, nothings changing. if were going to stay togetherI need this and this and this i am prepaired to do that. But as long as I see changes, even small ones that she is trying and willing to move forward then i feel like she needs the same thing i needed years ago. A self realization of who I want to be and why.

Please please pleae respond. Im only 3 weeks into this and all the feedback and help is so aprietiated!!!! excuse my spelling. Im a music major.


----------



## chattycathy (Aug 19, 2011)

You are getting good advice.

And....don't blame being a bad speller on being a music major.
The little red dots ar toooo shoow yoo hte mistakes
and
we all understand how you just have to type regardless of the errors to vent in a timely fashion.


----------



## judderi (Nov 28, 2011)

Also understand. I dont have self esteem issues. Im 6'4 200 pounds, good jaw line and I have had enough wemon interested in me that i realize that I am a catch. I dont need to stay with my wife to be happy. I dont need her in my life to feel secure and needed. I need her in my life because I truly love her and I truly beleive she wants to be here. Buut just like me I had to come to terms with what I did. forgive myself for what I did and then be able to move on. I can honestly say that it tolk me longer than three weeks to do that.


----------



## CH (May 18, 2010)

But you're enabling her to dig herself a deeper whole by giving her space and letting her do whatever she wants. My wife had an inkling that I was cheating but rug swept it. So, since she didn't do anything I went full bore on the affair.

After she finally caught on and got real proof, at that point I didn't really care if she knew or not because I was emotionally invested in the OW.

She has to have NC with these people period. If you let her find herself, she could find herself in the arms of OM.

Like others have said, she shows zero remorse. It happened let it go, ummm...NO. It happened but if you want to truly R, then you both have to find out why it happened and she has to show true remorse.

So right now it's only touching and kissing but it's no big deal because there was no love. Well, if she gave a BJ, HJ or had sex it's ok also because there was no love????

Cheating is cheating.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

judderi said:


> I guess I feel that an ultimatum is required when I start seing no progress at all.



based on what you posted there is no progress at all



well maybe progress with her and her OM


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

if you have convinced yourself that all she needs is time, and you are comfortable with the baby steps & bread crumbs... Go ahead. Give it a try. 

Come back and let us know how that turns out.

You likely won't remember or bother, but thats ok. We've read this story before.


----------



## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

> I truly beleive that I need to be patient with her and allow her to work something out in her mind. I truly beleive that she is trying but that this is so fresh and new for her that its over wheliming to have to make such hard relizations about herself and us over night. I truly beleive that she does want this to work but she just hasnt figured out how to come to term with it.


She is in the FOG and this sort of EA goes very seriously wrong,
very fast. You need to set some consequenes of action here. You are allowing her to have the affair. Read up on the 180 . You need to man up. She needs you to be the Alpha male. NOW.




> she has been trying to tell me for years that she's not feeling loved and apritiated. She has tried to expain to me her feeling and thoughts but in all honesty she has terrible comunication skills. I really didnt understand, and I tried. I just didnt feel that way so I had a hard time empathizing.
> This is no excuse for ever having anytype of a relationship. No one can ever blaim there spouse for something they have done.


You can not address long standing issues with someone else in the room.



> But i can understand how over time its easy to allow certian walls to fall down whitch allow you to justifiey what your doing


Yes. Which is why you need to set your boundaries . NOW






> she wont let me read her texts yet. She has a hard time talking to me about her frinds at work.


She is not letting you read her texts because she is texting her BF. Check your phone records for repeated calls to the same number. This is bad,, Look on this forum as to how fast this can go wrong. 



> She hasnt cut me out of her life. she invited me to the company christmas party. I could tell she was hesatent to do so but she did.
> 
> I guess I feel that an ultimatum is required when I start seing no progress at all. When I feel that nothing is changing and that we are not moving forward even a little. But for me to give an untimatum in the heat of emotion, and during a time where she needs to be able to work thing out seems counter productive


She needs to end it. You are in denial. 

.


> When i can honestly look at our relationship and say, ok hun, nothings changing. if were going to stay togetherI need this and this and this i am prepaired to do that. But as long as I see changes, even small ones that she is trying and willing to move forward then i feel like she needs the same thing i needed years ago. A self realization of who I want to be and why.


And to do that she needs to fall in love with some other guy and leave you. Women react differently to EA than men. This is VERY DANGEROUS territory


----------



## judderi (Nov 28, 2011)

thank you everyone. this is all helping. keep it up. I need it.


----------



## judderi (Nov 28, 2011)

As you all know, there are two sides to every story. This is the "cheating" wife. He failed to mention that he checked out emotionally years ago. I have been living in our home together as his roomate and babysitter. He didn't notice when I was here and didn't care if I was gone. I went on a trip with a friend for a week in April this year and when I returned, he disappeared. He was just glad to have his babysitter back. We have had sex probably twice a month for the last few years, sometimes less. He refused to make any changes when I would tell him how I was feeling. I told him I want him to spend time with me, make me feel important and show some affection. Three simple things that he refused to do. I had told him on many multiple occasions that if he would not even have sex with me I would find someone who would. At one point I cllimbed into bed naked and all he could say was (after looking at his watch) "What are you doing!?! It's midnight." Oh, and the classic comment told to my sister btw: the vagina is an open wound. Would you want someone going down on you who felt that way? Or the weight comments...I told him that I had lost 5 pounds expecting a loving supportive response and all I got was: "what did you do, take your shoes off?" So, yes I made out with a co-worker. I also made out with a female co-worker. Guess what honey, I kissed a girl and I liked it! The guy was to fill a need, the girl was to have fun. Yes I feel bad, but not nearly as bad as you have made me feel by your constant hurtful comments and keeping me always at arms length. PS, I didn't have sex with anyone but you, but it doesn't really matter because you don't believe me anyway.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

judderi said:


> As you all know, there are two sides to every story. This is the "cheating" wife. He failed to mention that he checked out emotionally years ago. I have been living in our home together as his roomate and babysitter. He didn't notice when I was here and didn't care if I was gone. I went on a trip with a friend for a week in April this year and when I returned, he disappeared. He was just glad to have his babysitter back. We have had sex probably twice a month for the last few years, sometimes less. He refused to make any changes when I would tell him how I was feeling. I told him I want him to spend time with me, make me feel important and show some affection. Three simple things that he refused to do. I had told him on many multiple occasions that if he would not even have sex with me I would find someone who would. At one point I cllimbed into bed naked and all he could say was (after looking at his watch) "What are you doing!?! It's midnight." Oh, and the classic comment told to my sister btw: the vagina is an open wound. Would you want someone going down on you who felt that way? Or the weight comments...I told him that I had lost 5 pounds expecting a loving supportive response and all I got was: "what did you do, take your shoes off?" So, yes I made out with a co-worker. I also made out with a female co-worker. Guess what honey, I kissed a girl and I liked it! The guy was to fill a need, the girl was to have fun. Yes I feel bad, but not nearly as bad as you have made me feel by your constant hurtful comments and keeping me always at arms length.


You had other choices that you could have exercised such as counseling and if he didn't want to then legal separation and ultimately divorce. 

Your husband may be all that you described but NOBODY, including you, deserves to be betrayed.


----------



## CH (May 18, 2010)

Then you as the wife should have left him. File for D and move on with your life. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

You had the thing with the male co-worker because he was filling a void, then you had thing with the female co-worker out of spite (from your post).

Not the way to live and have a marriage. File for divorce if you're that unhappy, nothing should be stopping you from moving on with your life without him from what you've posted.

Unless you need to do what you've been doing to throw more egg on his face to make you feel better.


----------



## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Then you should have left. I'm sorry but you will find no sympathy for your cheating ways. Even if he was all you said, that does not justify cheating and yeah, kissing other people is cheating. Although I suspect you're trickle truth'ing everyone.


----------



## hurtandalone (Nov 28, 2011)

Sir,
Im a little appalled by what I am reading. Not only on your part, but on the part of the respondents. See, I am pretty new to this whole divorce thing, I am definitly new to the infidelity thing. hat constitutes infidelity?? Well, heck it depends on how you look at anything. I truly do not believe that your wife has had an affair. She seemed pretty upfront with you in her response. So ask yourself. You said you had inappropriate "verbal" relationships with co-workers in the past. I assume from your response, that she has not held it against you. Good for her, she loves you regardless of the carnality of flesh. In addition, it sounds like she has tried to express to you her feelings regarding your relationship. Have you listened? Have you taken to heart what she is saying? I am not dismissing what she has done or what you purport to have done, however, she is still here. She was upfront with you about what happened. You need to ask yourself if you trust her enough to believe it. Unfortunately what I have read in the responses here seem to be that of angry jaded people. I too have my own story divorce, however, I have come to recognize that things went bad on both parts. I am not sure what religion you purport to, or the friend you spoke with, however it seems like very sound christian advise. Have you every realized that when you push someone they tend to push back harder? This is human nature in it's most basic form. Fight or Flight. The advise your friend gave is that of someone who understands that we (Humans) are carnal beings. Subject to all of the laws of the flesh. If you love her, love her. By all means, ask her to be upfront with you, ask her to communicate with you. However, if you usurp authority in what sounds to me like a very independent free thinking being, she will push back harder than you can ever imagine. She has been very pointed with you about her indiscretion, is it too hard to believe her? My story is similar, in the fact that I did as has been suggested here. I set firm limits, tried to be the "king" of my domain. I demanded my wife tell me what was going on, demanded she stop the behavior, demanded she let me see everything. You know what happened? I drove her right out the door. I was so insecure about what had happened, that I pushed her right out of my life. Later I found out from another source, that she had been completely upfront with me. It was her plea for attention, her last stand to get me to wake up and see she was struggling. I read it wrong, looked at it with hurt and insecurity and lost. My friend, I urge you to try to look deep within yourself, and remember why it is you fell in love with her in the first place. Look at where you are, and what she has been telling you. If you truly are making comments about things that women tend to be self conscious of in the first place (her weight, anatomy etc) stop. Finally, Something I have not seen here... Go get some professional counseling for the both of you. Go get it for yourself personally, get it for her personally. You have both been hurt, both need time and help to process the things that have been brought forward. If you love her, and want her to have respect, true, set boundaries, but don't ever lead with a hand of unrighteous dominion. Love her, and cherish her. Communicate with her, and make yourself better. You cannot force someone else to change.


----------



## judderi (Nov 28, 2011)

I have really hurt my wife. I have been hurting her for along time and had no idea how truly bad it was. Ive been a terrible husband and friend. And i can finaly see that know. I can see the damage ive causes and i can truly feel her pain. And i am so sorry for it. If i could fix it today i would. The best i can do is show her every day for the rest of my life that i understant and that i am willing to do what ever i need to fix it. Thats what i want. I want her to be able to have that same love and excitment in our marrage that we had when we first met. Buy her flower suprise her wirh gifts, hug her tell her i love he and how beuriful.she is. I want to be that guy. I realize that its going to take time to heal what i have done. But i want to. We have had long talks about what i did and.how.i can fix.it. I love it when she tells me.what she needs. Its a sign that she wants me to help her. i expect her to be angry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

So have I, dude i can't begin to tell the hurt I put On my wife, but I can tell you one thing both your unhealthy behaviors will continue enles the both of you make the choice to change your individuel behaviors and then you might have a healthier marriage.

For the wife your pain and your husbands exceptence to your life style will help in building unhealthy life.

For j- your behavior and your additude is also only going to bring unhealthy behaviors that you most likely will bring to your next relationship.

Guys the both of you went through some sh!t and now is the time to learn and make it better as individuels. Face it the both of you didn't grow up thinking I want to be a crappy spouse and/or liar.... come on here, growing up the both of you wanted to make a positive mark in the world as individuals.

What I'm telling is what I found out after learning about the 20 men my wife slept with in the last 20 years of marriage with her b/c I was a abusive husband...... is that the both of you can make the healthy individuel changes and have a new marriage with the same person but with healthier behaviors....or..... stay the way the both of you "turned out" and continue to struggle with your next relationships.

Granted the both of you can move on with out each other and change for the better as individuals, but why? the both of you loved each other once and things didn't "turn out" the way you thought they would as kids, but why chance meeting a different person with the same issue your spouse has.......And I want to use the word had b/c there is some history, alot, its worth a second look if the both of you agree to change as individuals. 

Who knows this change may bring the both of you a apart, but the botttom line is the both of didn't want to be emotional abusive or a adultoriss when you were young b/c its not healthy...its wrong no matter how you slice it.

So please look at your selves first and fix that, then you can think aout fixing a marriage in the hopes of keeping a family together.

One way or another fix your selves then you can move on with each other or at the very least move on apart with healthy behaviors as individuals.

I hope this helps alot folks and especially these two people who bacame someone they never wanted to be but can change and be the people they want to be and leave something behind that their kids can be proud of.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

judderi said:


> As you all know, there are two sides to every story. This is the "cheating" wife. He failed to mention that he checked out emotionally years ago. I have been living in our home together as his roomate and babysitter. He didn't notice when I was here and didn't care if I was gone. I went on a trip with a friend for a week in April this year and when I returned, he disappeared. He was just glad to have his babysitter back. We have had sex probably twice a month for the last few years, sometimes less. He refused to make any changes when I would tell him how I was feeling. I told him I want him to spend time with me, make me feel important and show some affection. Three simple things that he refused to do. I had told him on many multiple occasions that if he would not even have sex with me I would find someone who would. At one point I cllimbed into bed naked and all he could say was (after looking at his watch) "What are you doing!?! It's midnight." Oh, and the classic comment told to my sister btw: the vagina is an open wound. Would you want someone going down on you who felt that way? Or the weight comments...I told him that I had lost 5 pounds expecting a loving supportive response and all I got was: "what did you do, take your shoes off?" So, yes I made out with a co-worker. I also made out with a female co-worker. Guess what honey, I kissed a girl and I liked it! The guy was to fill a need, the girl was to have fun. Yes I feel bad, but not nearly as bad as you have made me feel by your constant hurtful comments and keeping me always at arms length. PS, I didn't have sex with anyone but you, but it doesn't really matter because you don't believe me anyway.


TOUCHE :slap::slap::slap:


----------



## Locard (May 26, 2011)

She still needs to show you the texts.......hmmmmm.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Locard said:


> She still needs to show you the texts.......hmmmmm.


It's only fair. After all, she got to see what you were commenting on this forum why can't she reciprocate?


----------



## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

morituri said:


> It's only fair. After all, she got to see what you were commenting on this forum why can't she reciprocate?


I already said I suspect trickle truth. And I still do.


----------



## judderi (Nov 28, 2011)

Thankyou hurtand alone! I am very christian and the friends I talked to is very christian. so or conversation was based on the idea that god has already forgiven her. know you need to. I completely agree. My gut tells me that she has been honest and upfront about what she did. Otherwise I wouldnt even be taking to time to be here. what im trying to do here is to help myself to be able to get past it. to be able to talk it out in a place where it wont be intrusive to our relationship. Unfortanatly i told her that i was doing this. She has been telling me to go out and find people to talk to and get there opinions so that im not trying to figure this out all on my own.She was right, but i felt the need to tell her that i was going to use an online thread to get opinions and help for my thoughts. I also told her that I was ok with her reading it if she felt the need. I didnt want her to feel like I was doing something behind her back. or have her turn on the comuter and do a little searching and find that Ive been talking to complete stranger about oyr relationship. So apperantly she felt the need to read this, and it put her right back to where we were 3 weeks ago. We have made some great progress. Today was a good day, until this. Now shes not sure what she wants. For her to emotionaly be thrust backwords so far is almost more than she can handle. I dont know where to go from here other than try to love her. I had committed to my self a couple days ago to not bring this stuff up for know. we bothe need a breather from our arguments. We bothe need to have some time to recoupe. Were not ingnoring it just letting ourselfs take a breather. She gets 5 free counselling sessions from work and today she was setting that up until she read this. Know she has decided we dont need to and she cant even talk about it. And i havent pushed it. I just asked if she wanted to and she said not right now. Understandable. So my only option that I can see is to love her the best I can right know. Show her I love her and that I want to be here and that Im ready to help in any way I can. Im at alos as to where to go right now. other that to just give her her space and as much love as she will let me. 
Suggestions?


----------



## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

judderi said:


> Thankyou hurtand alone! I am very christian and the friends I talked to is very christian. so or conversation was based on the idea that god has already forgiven her. know you need to. I completely agree. My gut tells me that she has been honest and upfront about what she did. Otherwise I wouldnt even be taking to time to be here. what im trying to do here is to help myself to be able to get past it. to be able to talk it out in a place where it wont be intrusive to our relationship. Unfortanatly i told her that i was doing this. She has been telling me to go out and find people to talk to and get there opinions so that im not trying to figure this out all on my own.She was right, but i felt the need to tell her that i was going to use an online thread to get opinions and help for my thoughts. I also told her that I was ok with her reading it if she felt the need. I didnt want her to feel like I was doing something behind her back. or have her turn on the comuter and do a little searching and find that Ive been talking to complete stranger about oyr relationship. So apperantly she felt the need to read this, and it put her right back to where we were 3 weeks ago. We have made some great progress. Today was a good day, until this. Now shes not sure what she wants. For her to emotionaly be thrust backwords so far is almost more than she can handle. I dont know where to go from here other than try to love her. I had committed to my self a couple days ago to not bring this stuff up for know. we bothe need a breather from our arguments. We bothe need to have some time to recoupe. Were not ingnoring it just letting ourselfs take a breather. She gets 5 free counselling sessions from work and today she was setting that up until she read this. Know she has decided we dont need to and she cant even talk about it. And i havent pushed it. I just asked if she wanted to and she said not right now. Understandable. So my only option that I can see is to love her the best I can right know. Show her I love her and that I want to be here and that Im ready to help in any way I can. Im at alos as to where to go right now. other that to just give her her space and as much love as she will let me.
> Suggestions?


You poor unfortunate soul  You've just doused yourself in gasoline and you're walking straight for the fire.


----------



## hurtandalone (Nov 28, 2011)

Judderi,
My only suggestion is this. Do what you can to help you forgive yourself. Help her to understand that you are willing to forgive her. Treat her with the utmost respect, and recognize that although there may have been some form of indiscresion, we are all human. Remember the Woman at the Well..... the parable speaks for itself. She may well be hurt, and you may well be hurt. Use those counseling sessions, and see what you guys can work out. As for "dousing yourself in gasoline".... there has to be a refiners fire somewhere. Remember there is only one being able to judge, although many try. Look to Him, remember your faith. Listen to the teachings of your Church leaders, seek help from them. Try to find a counselor who is of the same values, go from there. Who knows, maybe it is too far past help, but give it your best shot. Fight for her. Show her that she is worth more to you than "a roommate and babysitter".


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Get the book "His Needs Her Needs" and read it with her. It is designed for this situatoin and has worked miracles in thousands of families.

Most of all, learn how to listen. Its great that we see both sides on this thread. I often wonder what is really going on when we only hear one side of the story.

Looks like the two of you could benefit from some of the other sections of TAM as well.

I guess that as usual this is another case where the major problem is communication.


----------



## judderi (Nov 28, 2011)

thank you!


----------



## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

hurtandalone said:


> Judderi,
> My only suggestion is this. Do what you can to help you forgive yourself. Help her to understand that you are willing to forgive her. Treat her with the utmost respect, and recognize that although there may have been some form of indiscresion, we are all human. Remember the Woman at the Well..... the parable speaks for itself. She may well be hurt, and you may well be hurt. Use those counseling sessions, and see what you guys can work out. As for "dousing yourself in gasoline".... there has to be a refiners fire somewhere. Remember there is only one being able to judge, although many try. Look to Him, remember your faith. Listen to the teachings of your Church leaders, seek help from them. Try to find a counselor who is of the same values, go from there. Who knows, maybe it is too far past help, but give it your best shot. Fight for her. Show her that she is worth more to you than "a roommate and babysitter".


Hurtandalone, while I do not disagree with that he should fight for his marriage, I am very pro-marriage, we all are here, but the advice you are giving him is so wrong! You said in a previous post that you are new to the whole infidelity thing, well, I'm a "seasoned pro" at it. I was the betrayed spouse who did exactly what he is doing with "fighting for them" and "showing him he was worth it" crap. And yanno what??? IT WAS THE WORST EFFING ADVICE ANYBODY EVER GAVE ME!!!!!!! Nothing was solved, nothing got better. I rug swept all the problems and pretended it never happened then 6 years later BAM! More trouble. 3 affair partners in 8 months. And I can tell you, and I can tell him and I can tell the "wifey" that unless this problem is addressed properly, and people have to suffer their consequences, there is no hope. Love does NOT fix a damned thing. Love is an emotion, not a gall-danged fix-it-all. You can't make someone love you by showing them affection, all you end up being is a doormat. Do you know what doormats are used for? For wiping the mud and sh*t off your shoes, that's what. Nobody snuggles with a doormat. Nobody praises a doormat. Nobody rushes home to a doormat. That's so freaking retarded. Geesh.


----------



## judderi (Nov 28, 2011)

thank you apple ducklings. And I want you to know that love doenst fix anything. it can help it heal but it wont fix it. it can be a stepping stone on the path to fixing it, but it isnt the end all solution. the end all solution seems to be when both partners are willing to do what ever is needed to help the other. If one partner is ready and the other isnt then theres a choice to be made. Am I willing to go thru some pain to see if my partner can come to that desition on her own, or do I walk away? for me 3 weeks isnt long enough to say that I did all I could. I dont ever want to look back on this and ever say that I could have done more but I was mad and gave up to quickly. I do believe that boundrys and limits need to always be in place in a marrage and that bothe partners need to agree on those boundrys and limits. I also believe that there is a time and place for every conversation. If I truly want to stay married then I need to have the pacience to wate and know when that time and place has come. it may never come. I may never truely know when that will be but with councelling then maybe we can begin to repair ourself enough to be able to then place those boundrys in a loving way rather than a demand. If we go to counceling and we bothe deside that were done then at least we gave it our all and will not look back and wounder if I could have done more.


----------



## judderi (Nov 28, 2011)

So even though im not going to talk to her about this right know. there a time and place for everything, will still have some fundamental disagrements about texting and privacy. 
I guess im concidered and old school fuddy duddy about this topic. And by the way theres 8 years diffence, im 39 she 32. And I beleive that every generation can come to different conclutions about whats exeptable behavior. so as im expailing how I feel dont take this that im not willing to see a differnet piont of view. I just havent met a piont of view yet on this subject that has changed my mind.
A marrage needs to be completey open. If someone is doing something that they wouldnt feel comfertable doing with there spouse standing beside them then they shouldnt be doing it. So with that thought theres no reason that a spouse would have to hide there phone from there spouse. 
Know there are cerconstances (mine) when a marrage doesnt have that kind of relationship because of issues and mistrust. So the relationship needs to be build up to where they bothe have that same goal and desire to be that way with eachother.
Just a side note, when a couple has that kind of relationship then they really have no need to be worried about these things. The relationship is filled with trust and love and the desire to always put eachother first, any all other wants and needs second.
so how am i doing?


----------



## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Your doing terrible, mate. I guess we will See your threads soon in the "Going Through Divorce" section.


----------



## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

This is all so sad. Your doing terrible. 

Close it all down. Cut of all the roots. Wipe the slate clean.
And start again. With another. On your own. 


I must say though.. The I lost five pounds, take your shoes off comment did make me laugh.


----------



## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

You're not doing too well at all.

It's time to think about what you really want. And to start getting it, with her or without her.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You hurt your wife and she is hurting you back. You guys are gems. Counselling immediately. You need a unbiased 3rd party now.


----------



## hurtandalone (Nov 28, 2011)

This is true, I am new to infidelity, Hell, I am new to all of this, including posting to such a site. The underlying theme I speak of here is to separate yourself from the situation. Look at it from a 3rd person view. This situation sucks regardless of how you look at it. Do both parties need boundaries... Definitely. Can you force someone to comply.. Never. My advise is not to theoretically sweep the problems under the rug, rather to look at them as frigging big ass pot holes in the road. They do damage, and sometimes they destroy, however, with proper care the vehicle can be fixed, usually at a price. A 13 year marriage, with 3 children involved, especially if there is no abuse involved, it worth fighting for. To suggest otherwise is pure insanity... Just because the general populous (myself included) has been burned, does not mean that even one case cannot have a different outcome. I have hope in the goodness of human kind, I may get burnt by it continually, however I believe it is there. The problem I see, is that it is a slippery slope both ways. Sure follow everyones advise, kick up the demands, demand respect, demand to see the texts, demand to know exactly what is going on. If he was so disconnected from her in the past (from her statement of "checking out years ago") , I guarantee that will push her so far away, that there will be no choice but divorce. Show her that he cares, then come to an agreement... much better back door. Regardless of anyone's opinion, I too truly believe that his marriage is able to be saved, but there needs to be a 3rd party involved who looks at it non-partisan. Who isn't afraid to tell it like it is on both sides. Then it is their choice what they do, and their responsibility.


----------



## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Juderi, you claim to be Christian and getting advice from "very" christian people, yet you state every generation can choose it's own relationship norms. Not in my "super very" Christian bible. 

You are on a path to destruction, claim to come here for help, yet do not listen. You have ears, yet you do not listen, you have eyes, yet you do not see. 

Hurtandalone, if you are in fact not the OP's wife, you should spend more time reading here.


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Still in love with one another, want to work it out and move onto a deeper and better love and marriage? Then get yourselves along to a course such as Alpha Marriage Course | Emmanuel Methodist Church.


----------



## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

hurtandalone said:


> This is true, I am new to infidelity, Hell, I am new to all of this, including posting to such a site. The underlying theme I speak of here is to separate yourself from the situation. Look at it from a 3rd person view. This situation sucks regardless of how you look at it. Do both parties need boundaries... Definitely. Can you force someone to comply.. Never. My advise is not to theoretically sweep the problems under the rug, rather to look at them as frigging big ass pot holes in the road. They do damage, and sometimes they destroy, however, with proper care the vehicle can be fixed, usually at a price. A 13 year marriage, with 3 children involved, especially if there is no abuse involved, it worth fighting for. To suggest otherwise is pure insanity... Just because the general populous (myself included) has been burned, does not mean that even one case cannot have a different outcome. I have hope in the goodness of human kind, I may get burnt by it continually, however I believe it is there. The problem I see, is that it is a slippery slope both ways. Sure follow everyones advise, kick up the demands, demand respect, demand to see the texts, demand to know exactly what is going on. *You're right. What the hell do we know.  Enabling the person by looking the other way works all the time. Gee, maybe I should have stayed with my lying, cheating husband for another 15 years without demanding any respect, just looking the other way. Then maybe after another 15 years of "being nice" he would have come to see my worth. Yeah, that's what I should have done.* If he was so disconnected from her in the past (from her statement of "checking out years ago") , I guarantee that will push her so far away, that there will be no choice but divorce. Show her that he cares, then come to an agreement... much better back door. Regardless of anyone's opinion, I too truly believe that his marriage is able to be saved, but there needs to be a 3rd party involved who looks at it non-partisan. Who isn't afraid to tell it like it is on both sides. Then it is their choice what they do, and their responsibility.


*You see it as pushing her away, I see it as him getting his balls back.*


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

AppleDucklings said:


> *You see it as pushing her away, I see it as him getting his balls back.*


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

AppleDucklings said:


> *You see it as pushing her away, I see it as him getting his balls back.*


Amen


----------



## hurtandalone (Nov 28, 2011)

No, definitely not his wife. I'm not trying to say enable the situation. I am trying to say sacrifices must be brought on by both parties. But to force, or demand is not necessarily the best way. Sorry you are all so jaded. I was in the same situation, I tried your method and lost. So WTH is the difference? You had the experience that you wish you had pushed harder, I had the experience where I pushed harder and drove my spouse away. Who is right? Is there an answer? I don't know. Im just saying this situation seems so similar to mine... I did what you all are saying.... and it shot me in the foot. So, call me jaded the other way... But every situation is different. SEE A COUNSELOR. PERIOD. help yourselves by finding out what you both can do.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

hurtandalone said:


> I'm not trying to say enable the situation.


Wrong, that's exactly what you *ARE* telling him to do: *enable cheating behavior.*



hurtandalone said:


> I am trying to say sacrifices must be brought on by both parties.


As the betrayer, she must be the one to the heavy lifting.



hurtandalone said:


> But to force, or demand is not necessarily the best way. Sorry you are all so jaded.


So we're the ones who are jaded? 

Guess what? I've been through this twice, and I am in R. Why? Because I'm holding her accountable, letting her do the heavy lifting, and she's being transparent and rebuilding trust with me, the trust that she broke. ALL the better reconciliation stories here go that way. 



hurtandalone said:


> I was in the same situation, I tried your method and lost. So WTH is the difference? You had the experience that you wish you had pushed harder, I had the experience where I pushed harder and drove my spouse away.


Sorry that happened, but you need to understand that you had already lost your WW because she ALREADY detached from you. Your WW was NOT willing to recommit to the marriage and work on it. Why would you want to be with someone who will not commit to the marriage 100%?

You laid boundaries and demanded transparency and she refused and walked away. You did NOT push her away, she was already gone.



hurtandalone said:


> Who is right? Is there an answer? I don't know. Im just saying this situation seems so similar to mine... I did what you all are saying.... and it shot me in the foot. So, call me jaded the other way... But every situation is different. SEE A COUNSELOR. PERIOD. help yourselves by finding out what you both can do.


It didn't shoot you in the foot. She was already gone. Read the stories here, it's filled with BSs who laid down the boundaries, demanded transparency, etc, and the spouse still walked away. All that means is that the cheater refused to recommit to the marriage. The betrayed spouse is better off without someone who does not respect them and the marriage. You think just because she walked away that what you did caused her to walk away. Wrong. She walked away because she wanted to. That's what she chose because of her selfishness. She had already mentally checked out from the marriage.

But hey, if you want to be an enabler, go right ahead.


----------



## Jen S (Nov 10, 2011)

It seems like there should be more ways to work on problems like this than just what most people here insist on. If both spouses have contributed to the marital problems then they can both be the solution. I think that his friend's advice isn't that bad if he wants to stay married and take some responsibility for things. She has to as well, but if he gets the ball rolling, maybe she'll be more likely to reciprocate. I just don't think there's only one way to go about fixing a marriage.


----------



## hurtandalone (Nov 28, 2011)

Jen S said:


> It seems like there should be more ways to work on problems like this than just what most people here insist on. If both spouses have contributed to the marital problems then they can both be the solution. I think that his friend's advice isn't that bad if he wants to stay married and take some responsibility for things. She has to as well, but if he gets the ball rolling, maybe she'll be more likely to reciprocate. I just don't think there's only one way to go about fixing a marriage.



Agreed....


----------



## hurtandalone (Nov 28, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Wrong, that's exactly what you *ARE* telling him to do: *enable cheating behavior.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, personally I do think you are jaded.... But Like I said, I am too. Everyone here seems to be hurt in their own way. I had a bad experience with what you are suggesting, so Why not suggest the opposite. Im done trying to defend myself here, Look as it as enabling I guess. Ultimately they need counseling. Enough said.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Jen S said:


> It seems like there should be more ways to work on problems like this than just what most people here insist on. If both spouses have contributed to the marital problems then they can both be the solution. I think that his friend's advice isn't that bad if he wants to stay married and take some responsibility for things. She has to as well, but if he gets the ball rolling, maybe she'll be more likely to reciprocate. I just don't think there's only one way to go about fixing a marriage.


Then show us some success stories here where the BS has tried to woo their spouse back. Yeah, he needs to do the work on R so that his wife can see the error of her ways. Like that has ever worked.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

hurtandalone said:


> Yes, personally I do think you are jaded....


:lol:

Whatever. :rofl:



hurtandalone said:


> But Like I said, I am too. Everyone here seems to be hurt in their own way.


Gee, you think? Most everyone here has suffered the agony of betrayal. Some people are in R, like myself, and some have had their spouses walk away. 



hurtandalone said:


> I had a bad experience with what you are suggesting, so Why not suggest the opposite. Im done trying to defend myself here, Look as it as enabling I guess.


You think the problem is the method. No, the problem lays with the cheater. If the cheater chooses not to recommit, then the BS is better without them. It's better and healthier to reclaim ones self esteem, that to be a weak, pathetic, doormat that enables the cheaters behavior. Its not very attractive at all.



hurtandalone said:


> Ultimately they need counseling. Enough said.


MC is worthless while the affair is going on. MC is for when BOTH partners are committed to fixing their relationship. You, like others, seem to think that counselling is some magic bullet that will stop infidelity and fix everything.


----------



## Jen S (Nov 10, 2011)

I think it could work out. I think maybe people here only accept one method to work on things, but there could be others that work too. But those people are routinely driven away from this site by those who accept that their way is the only way. You're a self-selecting group.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

no one is saying that pre-affair marital problems should be ignored once conditions for recommitment are met (like transparency and remorse)

but the affair needs to be addressed first

it's basic triage
why treat a broken leg first if you're having a heart attack? Sure you can set the bone but when you're done the heart attack will have killed the patient.

having an affair is the big line crossing event
there aren't many things that can be considered in that manner (physical abuse is another for example) as most problems can be salvaged or at least determined to be impassable before an affair is started.


----------



## Jen S (Nov 10, 2011)

I think there are different ways to address an affair. It doesn't have to be the whole, "I'll show them and they'll be sorry" kind of thing. That may work, but it's not the only way that works.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Jen S said:


> I think it could work out. I think maybe people here only accept one method to work on things, but there could be others that work too. But those people are routinely driven away from this site by those who accept that their way is the only way. You're a self-selecting group.


That may be but it takes a rare type of betrayed spouse to do the heavy work of marital recovery while waiting for his/her unfaithful spouse to do his/her fair share. These rare people have an emotional strength of herculean proportions. Unfortunately for the rest of us mortals, a method of marital recovery that puts much of the burden of marital recovery on the betrayed spouse's shoulders, not only does not work but it actually exacerbates our already wounded condition.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Jen S said:


> I think it could work out. I think maybe people here only accept one method to work on things, but there could be others that work too. But those people are routinely driven away from this site by those who accept that their way is the only way. You're a self-selecting group.


Provide proof. 

I surely can provide proof of those who wished they had listened to the advice the first time. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/31959-false-recovery.html

Or how about hurtusb? He decided to do the nice guy approach in the end.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/28974-wife-just-told-me-shes-having-affair-4.html#post393859

Then couldn't stand the agony of limbo, had an ephiphany, changed his name and stood up for himself. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/33464-wife-ongoing-affair-learn-my-fail.html


----------



## Jen S (Nov 10, 2011)

You guys those stories are so sad, I don't mean to judge those people for whom it didn't work. But even as one of you said above, it may not have worked out anyway. I think different methods work in different situations, but only one method is accepted here by many of the commenters. That's fine, but that doesn't objectively show that another way might not work. 

It's like AA, it has a great success rate. Then you look at the success rate without AA, and it's exactly the same. But of course AA people all claim only their way works because it worked for them and any other result was an anomaly of some kind.

It depends on the people involved and the situation.


----------



## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Hurtandalone and Jen S, I'm curious to know, what planet do you all live on?


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Jen S said:


> It's like AA, it has a great success rate.



uhhh...no it doesn't

(but they won't release real stats to keep anonymity)


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Jen S said:


> You guys those stories are so sad, I don't mean to judge those people for whom it didn't work. But even as one of you said above, it may not have worked out anyway. I think different methods work in different situations, but only one method is accepted here by many of the commenters. That's fine, but that doesn't objectively show that another way might not work.
> 
> It's like AA, it has a great success rate. Then you look at the success rate without AA, and it's exactly the same. But of course AA people all claim only their way works because it worked for them and any other result was an anomaly of some kind.
> 
> It depends on the people involved and the situation.


I see. Have you been hit by infidelity yet? I think not.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/34571-trying-undo-some-damage-i-caused.html

Although from your thread, you were starting to get a little too chummy with a coworker and your husband saw you flirting with yet another man. You could have a problem with boundaries and vulnerable to an affair.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Jen S said:


> I think there are different ways to address an affair. It doesn't have to be the whole, "I'll show them and they'll be sorry" kind of thing. That may work, but it's not the only way that works.



for starters we do give different ways to approach affairs but there are certain tenets that can't be changed

it's like trying to lose weight

you can do P90X, you can cut down on carbs, you can eat smaller meals, you can join a gym
they are all different but all have the same principal-
less calories and more burning calories


and to characterize it as "I'll show them and they'll be sorry" is really misunderstanding what we say


----------



## CH (May 18, 2010)

Sigh,

My wife pleaded, played the great wife, said just leave her (OW) and we'll ignore it never happened....

That worked very well, I went ahead even further into the affair.

It took my wife to say, enough, stop seeing her, stop talking to her and GTFO of my life and don't ever come back to make me think about what I was really doing. Everything she did before kicking my ass to the curb didn't work.

When you sweet talk and try to win us back all I hear is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. When you say get out, suddenly my hearing clears up for some reason.

BTW, if you decide to kick her to the curb, you'll have to make sure you can do it. If not and you tuck tail and cave then you might as well just deal with her throwing all of this in your face to spite you for a very long time.


----------



## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Personally, there is no way I could stay married to my husband if he was still having his affair. It's hard enough trying to recover after it's ended, but at least I know he has chosen me. I don't feel like second choice. 

But even armed with the "knowledge" that he has chosen me over the OW, doesn't keep the doubt and mistrust at bay. It will take heavy lifting, reassurance, and verification from my husband to even begin to heal and rebuild trust. But I also need to go by his his actions and attitude in regards to me and our future to have the will to try.

The betrayal of infidelity is the most painful thing I've ever experienced. It's so emotionally debilitating there's no way I could've carried the weight of rebuilding all on my shoulders. There's no way I would've wanted to. 

Perhaps some people can live carrying the brunt of the burden of marital recovery, but I don't believe it's sustainable. At some point the hurt, anger, and resentment will erupt. I know of two situations (mutual friends) where the LS (women) carried the burden of rebuilding and then seemed to have "recovered" marriages. However, in both situations, the women left their husbands for OM two years later.


----------



## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Jen S said:


> I think there are different ways to address an affair. It doesn't have to be the whole, "I'll show them and they'll be sorry" kind of thing. That may work, but it's not the only way that works.


you can't have steak while the cow is still standing in the field. There's only one way to have steak.


----------



## Jen S (Nov 10, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> I see. Have you been hit by infidelity yet? I think not.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/34571-trying-undo-some-damage-i-caused.html
> 
> Although from your thread, you were starting to get a little too chummy with a coworker and your husband saw you flirting with yet another man. You could have a problem with boundaries and vulnerable to an affair.


Oh my gosh, you're so right! I see what you're saying now, there's no way you could be wrong about what we're discussing, judging from my thread.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

hurtandalone said:


> Yes, personally I do think you are jaded.... But Like I said, I am too. Everyone here seems to be hurt in their own way. I had a bad experience with what you are suggesting, so Why not suggest the opposite.


FWIW.....


Don't feel like you need to defend yourself, you’re not defending yourself. You’re defending an opinion. An opinion I believe is wrong. But, it doesn’t cost you anything to be wrong about this. The question becomes what will it cost the people who follow this opinion? 

You said that you’re offering it simply because it’s the opposite of something that didn’t work for you. The hard truth is, nothing may have worked for you. That doesn’t make your choice the wrong choice, and the opposite of your choice the “right” choice.

Please remember that your opinion is based on your experience. In this case your experience with the recommended approach to dealing with and recovering from infidelity did not generate the results you so badly desired. So, understandably you blame the approach and wonder "what if ?". Like most, you probably retraced every decision you made in an attempt to understand what happened and what you could have done differently. The process was questioned, and your opinion took form. 

The process was not at fault. The fault lies in the relationship and the people in it. Infidelity is very difficult to recover from, and in the mass majority of cases it is a death sentence to a marriage or relationship. 

People don't seem to realize as the come seeking the "magic pill" or solution to fix what has been so badly broken that even if you do everything right, even if you have 2 willing and motivated people working to save the relationship (something very few even have)... your chances of long term or permanent reconciliation are very slim. 

To compound it, these things that are recommended are tough. They will be some of the hardest things you will ever do; they act directly against your instincts. Most seem counter intuitive, and will often be met with resistance. It's a hard place your in, make no mistake. This is going to leave a mark. This is emergency surgery. Infidelity is your relationship on the table bleeding out. 

You made the right choice. You did what gave you and your spouse the best possible chance of true recovery. In your scenario, as is the case with most... It was too far gone. That doesn't change the fact, you made the right decision. 

There are certainly alternatives to the recommended approach, most are much easier and in many cases they may prolong or even improve the relationship temporarily. They are fool's gold. They will cost the people you recommend them to something you can’t give back. Time. The results won’t change, only the time it takes to get them. 

Yes, this is _my_ opinion, and an opinion shared by many of the people here. This process is forged in the fire of the hundreds of thousands of marriages that lived through and learned from the knife of betrayal. The wisdom of this opinion was built on those broken hearts and shattered families.

You are suggesting that the people giving these opinions are bitter. Perhaps, at times the messengers appear jaded. But, the message is not.


----------



## Jen's Husband (Nov 26, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> for starters we do give different ways to approach affairs but there are certain tenets that can't be changed
> 
> it's like trying to lose weight
> 
> ...


I tend to agree with what most folks are saying here. It would be torture to put up with a cheating spouse, let alone other problems. But by the way there's no point in arguing with Jen. She can't ever admit being wrong (said with love).

I think that the person who originally posted may find the act of looking the other way to be very difficult to do when suffering so much betrayal already. Just my two cents.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> FWIW.....
> 
> 
> Don't feel like you need to defend yourself, you’re not defending yourself. You’re defending an opinion. An opinion I believe is wrong. But, it doesn’t cost you anything to be wrong about this. The question becomes what will it cost the people who follow this opinion?
> ...


nicely said


----------



## Jen S (Nov 10, 2011)

Jen's Husband said:


> I tend to agree with what most folks are saying here. It would be torture to put up with a cheating spouse, let alone other problems. But by the way there's no point in arguing with Jen. She can't ever admit being wrong (said with love).
> 
> I think that the person who originally posted may find the act of looking the other way to be very difficult to do when suffering so much betrayal already. Just my two cents.


I'm not saying it's easy, I'm just saying there are other ways to handle things and maybe the poster's way would work. I don't know I'm just saying.


----------



## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Jen S said:


> I'm not saying it's easy, I'm just saying there are other ways to handle things and maybe the poster's way would work. I don't know I'm just saying.


You quite obviously project the advice given here on your situation and ain't liking any of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jen S (Nov 10, 2011)

snap said:


> You quite obviously project the advice given here on your situation and ain't liking any of it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How could it possibly apply to my situation?


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Jen S said:


> I'm not saying it's easy, I'm just saying there are other ways to handle things and maybe the poster's way would work. I don't know I'm just saying.


but I have yet to see that way work

been thru infidelity myself (you can read my link if you wish for a long story), and have read infidelity support boards for 18+ months now. Probably have read over 1000 stories by now. Haven't seen one case where the betrayed spouse ignored the infidelity and worked on him or herself to fix the marriage and they had a successful R. 

Now have I seen it where the BS stands their ground and demands NC, transparency and true remorse and still got divorced or separated?

You betcha, probably twice as much as those cases reaching successful R. But what you have to realize is that when you make a stand and ask your partner to recommit and give them the gift of R and then they don't take it that the marriage was over anyway. The BS could have begged, pleaded, been the greatest spouse possible and won the lottery but that marriage still would have ended. (or been a loveless sham)


----------



## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

I’m going to break down why the friend’s method is a recipe for failure for any lurkers (and Jen) that may think this method could work. This sounds good on the surface but it’s very idealistic and disregards human nature. Trying to act rational with someone in an irrational state of mind just doesn’t work.

This is just my 2 cents and it might not even be worth that.


judderi said:


> Finally I talked to someone who helped me understand what the problem was. He said, "do you want to get a divorce". I said no. He then said, "then you need to get over it. Your wife is going thru something in her life right now that everyone goes thru at some point in time. She doesn’t understand what she wants or where she wants to be and she’s trying to figure it out. She needs to know that no matter what happens you will forgive her, and you will always be there for her. if you want this marriage to last then don’t ever talk about again. Don't ever bring it up in anger and use it against her. Don’t ever tell her she is wrong for what she did. Smile, be happy, be better then you have ever been in your life. Give her every reason to want to be with you.


So basically let her go have her fun with absolutely no consequences then show her you don’t mind being a doormat. Show her that she can walk all over you and you will take it because you value the marriage more than yourself so she has a free pass to do whatever she wants. Like a child, she will eventually get it out of her system and see that you stood by her the whole time she was wh0ring around and that you are really the best guy in the world for martyring yourself. Just like in the movies! (I'm being sarcastic BTW)

You give anyone that much power over you they WILL abuse it, that’s just human nature.



> She knows that what she has done and what she is doing is wrong. That is why she is so defensive about it. You trying to convince her that what she has done and is doing is wrong will only make her more angry. It will only drive a larger wedge between you. She has to come to this realization on her own. She has to want to change. She has to want to make you the most important person in her life. She has to do it herself. No ultimatums, crying, weeping, telling her how bad you feel inside will ever change her. It will only make things worse.


This is actually correct, you can’t force them to see the errors of their ways, they have to see that on their own. Whining about what they did and your hurt doesn’t help.



> If you want to stay married then it's your responsibility to forgive and forget.


"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana

The problem with rug sweeping is that not only does the WS not suffering any consequences for their indiscretions, the issues that led up to the affair (with the M, the WS, and the BS) are never addressed so the odds of it happening again are extremely high. Resentment can build for both parties where the WS looks down on the BS for not standing up for themselves and of course the BS resenting the WS for betraying them.


> To put some perspective on it, don’t look at where you are right now, or how you feel right now. Imagine yourself 10 years down the road, married to the love of your life and have a wonderful fulfilling relationship with your wife. In 10 years you will look back on this as a small bump in the road. Just another learning lesson in life. Just like when you broke up with your first girlfriend. At the time life wasn’t worth living. but now you can look back on that experience without pain. It was just a bump in the road.


This isn’t really true. The affair will always be in the back of your mind and the fantasy of having a perfect marriage will forever be tainted by it. You may no longer be angry about it but you will never be able to put your spouse on a pedestal again. 

Some marriages do recover and are actually better than they were before the A like mine. My biggest struggle isn’t with how my W is doing 3 years out; it’s about what I gave up taking her back (mainly my dignity).

He thinks you can minimize it in time, you really can’t.



> Give her space. Yes what she has done and is doing is wrong and hurtful to you and your family. But you can't change her. You can't force her to be the person you want her to be. You can't force her to feel the pain that you feel.


This is true, short of having a RA which tends to not go over so well since you ended up becoming the thing you hate, the WS will never understand what you went through. Try to make them see that is pointless.



> And the only way she will ever change and be the person she need to be is if you are willing to suffer the heart ache and pain, but keep your mouth shut and a smile on your face. It may take 6 weeks. It may take 6 months, but if you think the marriage is worth it then its the only way to save it.


This is flat out wrong. She will change when not changing becomes too painful. If you keep the status quo, she will have no motivation to do the right thing since there's no negative consequences. People don't like change and won't until basically forced. She will change when you turn your back on her and she finally sees what she will be missing. She won’t change if she sees a sad sap waiting on her to finish screwing the local basketball team. People are attracted to strength, not weakness. Basically he’s saying you should do all the suffering and they get off scot-free with only their own personal guilt to worry about. 



> Love her unconditionally, without spite, and anger. If in the end It doesn’t work, then you have done all you could do. But if it's still worth the effort then do it. Right now. Don’t have one more conversation with about anything other than how much you love her and that you will always be there for her. NO MATTER WHAT.


I think this guy watches too many romantic comedies, real life just doesn’t work that way. “Love” isn’t the answer and isn't enough. Why show someone love while they continue to stab you in the back for it? I think this guy feels that you can basically guilt them back by being the nice guy the whole time but that doesn't work. The "nice guy" is seen as needy and pathetic and nobody wants to deal with that.

It's not about love, its about respect. Nobody can love someone they don't respect. At the end of the day your number 1 priority has to be yourself. You weren't put on this Earth for someone to take advantage of and used. Once you start showing self respect by standing up to them they will start to respect you more. Once you earn their respect by showing you will be fine without them then they will start to having feeling for you again.

The only time I've seen this "Plan A" approach work is when the WS ends the affair and starts to work on the M BEFORE the BS even finds out about the A. Outside of that, only the tough love approach is effective in dealing with affairs. Affairs are not about love, they are about being addicted to the feelings and adrenaline rush for doing something wrong with someone else. You have better luck treating an affair like a drug addiction. Being nice enables addicts and affairs, always keep that in mind.

This was way longer than I expected, I guess I rambled a lot.


----------



## Locard (May 26, 2011)

I'm getting a little tired of being labeled. As far as I know, my wife has never cheated or we have a great R. 

We are all here for our own reasons and have our own backgrounds and experiences with relationships. A few people here need to stick around, READ MORE, and the trends and dynamics at work will becoming glaringly obvious.


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

judderi said:


> A marrage needs to be completey open. If someone is doing something that they wouldnt feel comfertable doing with there spouse standing beside them then they shouldnt be doing it. So with that thought theres no reason that a spouse would have to hide there phone from there spouse.


:iagree: And whether or not this is 'old school' thinking in my opinion is irrelevant when infidelity enters the picture. She has admitted to crossing the line with co-workers and at this point feels she is justified because of the way you have treated her the last 2-3 years. 

I see 3 options - 
Both of you re-commit to the marriage and each other & give the marriage a shot for the sake of your children
Redefine your marriage as 'open' and agree to see other people
Go your separate ways because the resentment and lack of respect is beyond the point of return

Obviously the first option would be optimal from the standpoint of your children, but you will both need to acknowledge your part in the break-down of the marriage & both agree to work on rebuilding from here. Sometimes it's too little too late, but if there is any amount of love on both sides, it's sure worth a shot for your children.


----------



## judderi (Nov 28, 2011)

I’m back. If you’re not aware I originally started this post. Well it’s been a while since I posted anything. At the time I had decided to no longer post because I could tell she was defiantly having some issues with this. I haven’t check for a while until i saw some links in my email and decided to look. So I will share with you all what has happened since then. And thanks for all the info and response to what we have been going thru.

Were still together and things are going good. There not perfect and we have a long ways to go. 

I want everybody to know that I did everything that everybody told me to do (almost). 
The first step for me was to make sure, she new, without a doubt, that I still loved her and wanted her as my wife. I made sure that she knew that I realized that I haven’t been a very good husband, and that I have a lot of problems of my own that I need to work on and that I wanted to be a better person and a better husband. Then I started to work on them! I started to work on myself, trying to show her that I wanted to change. Obviously this is going to be a lifelong process and I can’t expect her to completely see me differently in 4 weeks, after causing so much damage over the last 13 yrs. But I had to start. She needed to see an effort on my side. 
I had no idea if this would even help, or work, but I had decided that whatever happens, I didn’t like the relationship that we had. If I was going to be married (to anybody) then I had to be willing to fix myself. So I am still doing that. Still analyzing and trying to figure out what I can do to be a better person, a better husband, a better dad.

In our situation, this is something she really needed to see. Looking back on it, I can tell that if I wouldn’t have done this myself then there would have been no reason for her to want to stay and change. She needed proof, understandable.

The problem was that as I loved, and continued trying to prove and change, it wasn’t changing her behavior. She continued to do the things that she had been doing. I could tell that she was backing off of those things a little but she wasn’t letting them go. She wasn’t willing to make the change on her own to commit to us. To commit to a relationship that had caused her pain and suffering. She had finally found some comfort and acceptance from somebody else and wasn’t ready to let that go. Why should she. She hadn’t been happy for a very long time. Why should she risk putting herself back into a relationship that has only caused her to suffer? 

So after weeks of showing love and compassion, trying to prove and reprove,( and making many mistakes along the way) having many loving and caring conversations trying to let her know that as long as she was holding on to these relationships that we would never be able to heal, I finally came to the point where I realized that she couldn’t make this decision on her own. She agreed with me, and would acknowledge that what she was doing was wrong, but she wasn’t able to stop it on her own. She wasn’t strong enough! (My words not hers).

She needed to be pushed. She wanted to be pushed. 
She had put herself into a situation that she couldn’t get out of on her own. 
My wife is a non confrontational person. Her whole family would rather ignore a problem and pretend like it never happened rather than deal with it. 
In this situation she needed me to be the bad guy and force her out of this relationship. I know that sounds screwed up but she couldn’t do it on her own.
So finally after she had left her face book page open on the laptop I saw that this guy was pursuing her, trying to lovingly manipulate her into doing things with him that were very inappropriate. I saw that instead of telling him to back off, she would just give a smiley face, or a quick comment of “how are you”, or “hope you’re doing ok”, or that she missed him (he is going through a divorce as well). She wasn’t willing to tell him to stop but also that she wasn’t pursuing his same desires and wants. She was keeping her boundaries with him but at the same time not letting him go.
So I decided that it was time for me to be very firm and decisive. I had given her the opportunity to change on her own. I had been doing my best to change and show love, but it was now time to put my foot down and say enough is enough.

Now if you think I’m over reacting please read the very beginning of this whole post. She had done something’s with this guy that was very inappropriate in any relationship. NO SEX. But enough other stuff that if she was to continue on, then it would have led to a relationship that she might not have been able to walk away from, or even forgive herself for.

So I put my foot down rather hard and firm. I raised my voice, used a few colorful metaphors, on purpose, (and I’m not a swearer) and told her that if she didn’t want to be married to me then she needs to leave. I wasn’t ganna deal with her lying to me, hiding her texts, hiding her face book, telling me that her relationships with other men are none of my concern, and on and on. 

She was mad, angry that I would act like her father, angry that I would give her demands and ultimatums. 

It told a day or two, but she told him no more. She unlocked her phone. She did what I told her I needed done for us to stay married. She was mad that she was doing these things, but she did them. 

It’s been a little while since then and her anger has changed into sorrow and remorse. Her attitude has gone from being defiant and aggressive to being soft and caring and wanting to help fix what has happened. Her phone is still unlocked. Her face book is still open; she is open with me about her friends and makes a point to talk to me about what she’s doing, and what she talks about with others. When she is texting someone and I’m in the same room she, on her own, will tell me who she’s talking to and what it’s about. She is taking responsibility for the damage that she caused and is trying to fix what she can.
I truly believe that if I would have jumped right in her face at the very beginning that we wouldn’t be together. If I would have given her demands she would have left. She needed me to fight for her and prove myself as best I could. She also needed help getting herself out of the situation she had put herself in. 
She needed love and compassion, as well as a firm kick in the butt. Without the first, the second would have never worked.
We still have a long ways to go. We Bothe have agreed that we have no idea if this relationship (marriage) will even work in the long run. But the one thing we do agree on is that we love each other and we have enough to try to make it work. 

Were in counseling and were talking. It hasn’t been easy. And there are still times when I flash back to what has happened and I get angry thinking about it. And the same happens with her. The difference now is that instead of pulling away and distancing our self, so far we have been able to hold each other, cry with each other, and realize that we have a long ways to go.

As I have read thru all the comments and suggestions and heart aches on this post, I realize that every situation is different. I also realize that we have no idea what we are doing still. We may have problems in the future that cause our marriage to fail. Or we may get thru this and have a better relationship then ever. I don’t know. But I hope that if someone reads thru this that it might help in some way.

On a side note, I taught a Sunday school lesson on the 23rd of January about forgiveness and repentance. The one thing that stuck out to me was the invitation that Jesus has given us to repent. Not many of us look at repenting as in invitation of love, but Jesus’s invitation to repent was given out of love. If we invite someone to repent but we don’t do it with love, then we are the sinner. If our desire is for someone to repent to us, which isn’t a bad thing, we need to make sure that we are asking for the right reasons. We are giving them the opportunity to repent out of love and not anger. ANGER BEGETS ANGER. LOVE BEGETS LOVE. 
Thru the scriptures there are many lessons of Jesus asking people to repent. The reason he is asking is always the same, but the way he does it is very different. For example he asked Sodom and Gamora to repent many, many times with a peaceful voice and soft spoken words, but when he saw that that wasn’t what they needed he put his foot down and laid down the law, out of love. With Noah, he gave the world every opportunity to repent but when it came down to it, he had no choice but to wipe them out. There sin was more damaging to them then there death. There sin was hurting them more than there death would. Neither option was ideal but one was out of love, death. 

Some times in our life’s we have to take that example. Not to that extreme, but to the point where a soft voice and kind words will not fix the problem, but a firm and loving demand ( I hate to use that word because it has such a negative sound to it) is required.
Love is the key. Love is the answer. Whatever the outcome, divorce, marriage, friends, always try to achieve it with love.

EASIER SAID THAN DONE.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Troll?


----------

