# NC Letter and response



## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

My long version of my story is over in the Private Section. But just briefly, WH having EA but it's very one sided. She has not reciprocated (much) but didn't discourage him either.

WH agreed to send a NC letter and end it. I was reading some examples of what the letter should include. Right to the point and no I'm going to miss you etc. I would like to hear what she has to say. Is that wrong? I guess she probably won't admit to anything anyway but I'm just dying to hear where she thought the relationship was heading. Useless info?

Also, some on here think it should be exposed to her boyfriend but she didn't say too much that was out of line. It was all coming from WH and she would respond with oh you're so sweet. Do you think I should call him or send an email?


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Stressedandsad said:


> My long version of my story is over in the Private Section. But just briefly, WH having EA but it's very one sided. She has not reciprocated (much) but didn't discourage him either.
> 
> WH agreed to send a NC letter and end it. I was reading some examples of what the letter should include. Right to the point and no I'm going to miss you etc. I would like to hear what she has to say. Is that wrong? I guess she probably won't admit to anything anyway but I'm just dying to hear where she thought the relationship was heading. Useless info?
> 
> Also, some on here think it should be exposed to her boyfriend but she didn't say too much that was out of line. It was all coming from WH and she would respond with oh you're so sweet. Do you think I should call him or send an email?


Put yourself in her shoes: if it looks like her main motive was to deflect your WH's approaches without creating waves, then probably no need to tell her BF. The NC letter will take care of things from your end, and quite frankly she might be glad to receive it if she didn't welcome your WH's attention. If NC doesn't work the I'd reassess.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

NC letters - my wife did NC in Dec. 2011. All it did was take the A underground. I am not a supporter of NC letters. I understand their value in some situations but for me it did not end the A. 

NC means NC and if the WS means it, no letter, phone call, email or other means will matter at all, unless the WS has NC.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Do not get wrapped up in what does she feel? How is she reacting to? If this had/had not?

What do you want? How far has your WS gone to reassure you of the future and what he really wants in his life?

Is there a past history of infidelity in your marriage?


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

What are you expecting to accomplish with a no contact letter?

Who cares what OW thinks, do you expect her to be honest with you?

That's a laugh.

According to your story OW has been giving your husband no contact letters herself and that didn't stop him. The NCL is nothing. It's a baby step that many can just skip over.

The NC letter is merely a gesture, a statement of purpose towards a constructive direction.

If you are already headed there, and OW is not interfering then the NCL is pointless.

Not to mention, as was already said, NC letters can often distract or falsely reassure a BS that the affair is over.

Do NOT think the sending of a NCL puts a stop to an affair. It is a gesture only. That's all it's supposed to be.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

I would honestly contact the BF yes. He has a right to know his gf is covertly accepting interference in her commitments.

The OW NOT sending your husband away is something the BF in my opinion has a right to be concerned about. Given that, he has a right to know it is happening.

I would be more concerned about that part than a NCL.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Stressedandsad said:


> My long version of my story is over in the Private Section. But just briefly, WH having EA but it's very one sided. She has not reciprocated (much) but didn't discourage him either.
> 
> WH agreed to send a NC letter and end it. I was reading some examples of what the letter should include. Right to the point and no I'm going to miss you etc. I would like to hear what she has to say. Is that wrong? I guess she probably won't admit to anything anyway but I'm just dying to hear where she thought the relationship was heading. Useless info?
> 
> Also, some on here think it should be exposed to her boyfriend but she didn't say too much that was out of line. It was all coming from WH and she would respond with oh you're so sweet. Do you think I should call him or send an email?


Sounds like his NC letter should be a short apology and her response should be --Okay--.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

Philat said:


> Put yourself in her shoes: if it looks like her main motive was to deflect your WH's approaches without creating waves, then probably no need to tell her BF. The NC letter will take care of things from your end, and quite frankly she might be glad to receive it if she didn't welcome your WH's attention. If NC doesn't work the I'd reassess.


I think she enjoyed getting the compliments and attention from my WH but I don't think she was wanting more. I don't know for sure though. She didn't put her feelings down on the emails and texts I read. Maybe she said more during phone calls. I can't be sure. That's why I wanted to talk to her.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

Thorburn said:


> NC letters - my wife did NC in Dec. 2011. All it did was take the A underground. I am not a supporter of NC letters. I understand their value in some situations but for me it did not end the A.
> 
> NC means NC and if the WS means it, no letter, phone call, email or other means will matter at all, unless the WS has NC.


I didn't really think it would solve everything but I guess I wanted to see him put forth some effort and not just empty promises. You're right though, if he still wants to communicate with her, he'll find a way. Sigh


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

wranglerman said:


> Do not get wrapped up in what does she feel? How is she reacting to? If this had/had not?
> 
> What do you want? How far has your WS gone to reassure you of the future and what he really wants in his life?
> 
> Is there a past history of infidelity in your marriage?


He has only just said he is willing to work on our marriage and that he won't contact her. I felt like asking for the letter was just a little more committment. We really need counseling but not sure how to fit that into his crazy travel schedule. 

Past history of infidelity for both of us but years ago in our early 20's. It's been over 20 years ago.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

Allen_A said:


> What are you expecting to accomplish with a no contact letter?
> 
> Who cares what OW thinks, do you expect her to be honest with you?
> 
> ...


No, OW has not been giving him any kind of stop sign at all. That's the problem. She just keeps giggling (she is young enough to be his daughter) and saying he's so sweet. He also keeps trying to see her when he travels and she meets him for dinner. Twice that I know of. So she's encouraging him. She's just not reciprocating by going over the line like he is. It's still inappropriate.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

Allen_A said:


> I would honestly contact the BF yes. He has a right to know his gf is covertly accepting interference in her commitments.
> 
> The OW NOT sending your husband away is something the BF in my opinion has a right to be concerned about. Given that, he has a right to know it is happening.
> 
> I would be more concerned about that part than a NCL.


I think I will do this if NC doesn't work or if I discover more lying.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Stressedandsad said:


> I didn't really think it would solve everything but I guess I wanted to see him put forth some effort and not just empty promises. You're right though, if he still wants to communicate with her, he'll find a way. Sigh


One thing that the NC letter does is draw a line in the sand. It makes your expectations for his behavior explicit. It also gives you a hook to say "If you violate NC then I will..." [whatever you will do, hopefully something that will command his attention].


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

I thought more people were in favor of the NC. But I guess I can see how it would give me a false sense of security. God this stuff sucks big time.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Stressedandsad said:


> No, OW has not been giving him any kind of stop sign at all. That's the problem. She just keeps giggling (she is young enough to be his daughter) and saying he's so sweet. He also keeps trying to see her when he travels and she meets him for dinner. Twice that I know of. So she's encouraging him. She's just not reciprocating by going over the line like he is. It's still inappropriate.


Ya ok, I got the impression earlier that she was playing hard to get. Now it sounds more like she's just not taking him seriously yet.

You need to warn her boyfriend he has a loose cannon there. He has a right to know his gf is disrespecting him behind his back.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Stressedandsad said:


> I think I will do this if NC doesn't work or if I discover more lying.


If you want the contact to stop, alert the boyfriend... the BF will can double up your intelligence efforts by warning you about any contact that YOU miss.

And presumably you would warn him if he misses any. Assuming he does not dump her outright.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Philat said:


> One thing that the NC letter does is draw a line in the sand. It makes your expectations for his behavior explicit. It also gives you a hook to say "If you violate NC then I will..." [whatever you will do, hopefully something that will command his attention].


The problem is some men and women affair partners read the NC letter as a joke and take it as a sign of weakness on your part.

They just read it and think.. "is that it? I am screwing around with her husband and she makes him write some silly letter?"

The best way to get OW off your back is to out her to her boyfriend. That puts HER on the defensive. Affair partners do take offensive efforts by your part seriously. Showing up at her workplace, showing up at her home or speaking with her family. When you go out after her they are far more inclined to pay attention.

I am not suggesting you do these things, I am just showing you how passive and timid a NCL looks in comparison to outing her to her BF and exposing her to friends, family, and her workplace.

And some husbands may very well take that as a sign of weakness on the wife's part as well, simply asking for a NCL isn't much of a stand. To my mind promiscuity like this isnt' a marital issue anyhow.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Stressedandsad said:


> I thought more people were in favor of the NC. But I guess I can see how it would give me a false sense of security. God this stuff sucks big time.


Some are on TAM. I can only tell you it did not work for me. It is a written commitment and if it helps you then I say go for it.

Some have said don't contact the OM/OW. I did. Actually he contacted me after I threatened him. I got quite a bit from him. He wanted to win his wife back and really opened up to me. He asked for my help. I helped him. Strange things can happen.

Based upon what you said, it does seem to be one sided in him pursuing the OW. I would still alert the BF and just tell him what you know and that it seems like your husband is the problem.


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## DeterminedToThrive (Nov 2, 2013)

My personal experience was:

My husb had an EA, he sent a NC text. He expected no reply or a reply that his wonderful friend understood and was happy that he was working on his marriage. That was NOT her reply, it was a hateful cussing text. That reply was pretty valuable, it opened my husb eyes, started the lift of the "affair fog" and blew his fantasy that the OW was this Madonna - like (not the singer) person.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> NC letters - my wife did NC in Dec. 2011. All it did was take the A underground. I am not a supporter of NC letters. I understand their value in some situations but for me it did not end the A.
> 
> NC means NC and if the WS means it, no letter, phone call, email or other means will matter at all, unless the WS has NC.


I completely agree - the NC letter is simply a placating tool to the BS. It does nothing to deter the WS from continuing the affair in a more underground fashion.

Those who tell people their WS's must follow the NC script (she writes, you approve and send) are really just following a cookbook, a recipe that is supposed to work. Most of the stories on TAM have shown the opposite.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

Gabriel said:


> I completely agree - the NC letter is simply a placating tool to the BS. It does nothing to deter the WS from continuing the affair in a more underground fashion.
> 
> Those who tell people their WS's must follow the NC script (she writes, you approve and send) are really just following a cookbook, a recipe that is supposed to work. Most of the stories on TAM have shown the opposite.


So do you think I should just take him at his word and then watch him like a hawk? Hardest part for me is that it's very difficult to catch him at anything when he travels so much for his job. 

I'm in another, I give up mode tonight!


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

DeterminedToThrive said:


> My personal experience was:
> 
> My husb had an EA, he sent a NC text. He expected no reply or a reply that his wonderful friend understood and was happy that he was working on his marriage. That was NOT her reply, it was a hateful cussing text. That reply was pretty valuable, it opened my husb eyes, started the lift of the "affair fog" and blew his fantasy that the OW was this Madonna - like (not the singer) person.


Somehow I don't think I'd get that response from her. In fact, I'm pretty sure she'll just say that she was being nice to him and he's just a good friend. 

I'm glad it worked for you though! Good to hear it works for someone!


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

From your other thread, one gets the impression that your H is very interested in her and is chasing her. If her BF is alerted, it could make her much more likely to shut your H down.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Stressedandsad said:


> Somehow I don't think I'd get that response from her. In fact, I'm pretty sure she'll just say that she was being nice to him and he's just a good friend.
> 
> I'm glad it worked for you though! Good to hear it works for someone!


Which is exactly why you out her to her boyfriend. Anyone that remorseless and ignorant is not going to respect your marriage without some offensive action.

Put her on notice by outing her.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> From your other thread, one gets the impression that your H is very interested in her and is chasing her. If her BF is alerted, it could make her much more likely to shut your H down.


Or that the boyfriend calls your husband up and gives him a piece of his mind.

To my mind outing the OW to her boyfriend offers a lot of gains for what sounds to be little risk.

You out OW to her boyfriend and this has a better chance of getting shut down.

I can't think of any reason to NOT out her to be honest, other than the risk that she may retaliate against you in some way. It does not sound to me like she is much of a war hawk though.

I would out her. Get the boyfriend in the loop and he will keep your husband away from her. Put the boyfriend to work for you.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

NC letters are pointless and silly, if not coupled with exposure. This aint rocket science.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

I imagine the conversation between the WS and the OP would go something like this. _" My BS insisted I send you a no contact letter, if you know what I mean"_


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

I called the OMs girlfriend, and told her all about what her boyfriend had been doing with my wife... that was enough to keep him busy, since she was the one that makes the good money and he made the weak paycheck...

That was my NC letter... Let him know I have access to his girlfriend..


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

russell28 said:


> I called the OMs girlfriend, and told her all about what her boyfriend had been doing with my wife... that was enough to keep him busy, since she was the one that makes the good money and he made the weak paycheck...
> 
> That was my NC letter... Let him know I have access to his girlfriend..


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Excellent. Yes, that about says what I wanted to say, thank you.

Expose the affair to the boyfriend. That is a much more powerful message to the OW she's on notice.

Keeping her secrets for her? Would you not want the boyfriend to put YOU in the loop if he were the one in the know?

Out her, that will keep her busy and give you two time to sort things out.

Confrontation phase is not the time to be playing softball.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

Gulp! Time to put on my big girl panties. Thanks everyone for your wonderful advice.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Stressedandsad said:


> Gulp! Time to put on my big girl panties. Thanks everyone for your wonderful advice.


Hardly. You are putting her boyfriend to work for you.

You are merely recruiting someone in your maturity crusade.

Nothing to feel awkward about there. You should feel proud of speaking up to him and letting him know what's going on behind his back.

If you keep the secret, you are just doing to him what his girlfriend is doing to him.

Does anyone else know about this EA going on that you are aware of? Just the three of you at this point?


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Stressedandsad said:


> Gulp! Time to put on my big girl panties. Thanks everyone for your wonderful advice.


Ha!


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

Allen_A said:


> Hardly. You are putting her boyfriend to work for you.
> 
> You are merely recruiting someone in your maturity crusade.
> 
> ...


Just the three of us and one trusted family member. I have to be a bit careful about spreading this around. It could affect his new job and thus affect me and my financial situation. Once he is past the probationary period and if we don't reconcile, then exposing what happened is a good idea. Before that, it could bite me in the ass.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

Update, he finally agreed to send the NC letter but I have zero faith he means it. He just doesn't see why he can't keep her friendship if he agrees to not flirt with her anymore. He is completely lost in his fog of Mid Life Crisis and can't see it.

I'm crushed.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Stressed, have you read "Not just friends" by Shirley Glass yet? If not, do so ASAP. Google it, there's a web site to browse. You really need.to understand the phases he's in.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Stressedandsad said:


> Update, he finally agreed to send the NC letter but I have zero faith he means it. He just doesn't see why he can't keep her friendship if he agrees to not flirt with her anymore. He is completely lost in his fog of Mid Life Crisis and can't see it.
> 
> I'm crushed.


In his state of mind I agree now that the NC letter probably means nothing. I do not agree that NC letters are always pointless, however. They are a means of promoting healing and reconciliation AFTER the affair has ended and the WS needs to demonstrate commitment to the BS. NC letters will not end an ongoing affair. In cases like yours exposure is the means to that end.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Stressedandsad said:


> Update, he finally agreed to send the NC letter but I have zero faith he means it. He just doesn't see why he can't keep her friendship if he agrees to not flirt with her anymore. He is completely lost in his fog of Mid Life Crisis and can't see it.
> 
> I'm crushed.


Oh please don't let him use the mid life crisis excuse... That excuse is just some ridiculous urban legend...

If you have to CONVINCE him to end his involvement, then you have your answer on how committed he is.

He is willing to put you and your marriage on the chopping block to keep this up with her. That says something.

Please don't resort to allowing this "lost in the fog" and "midlife crisis" crapola. He may be intoxicated, but he's still capable of rational thought.

He's choosing to do this. It is not his midlife crisis or the fog making him do this. It's a choice he's making willingly and consciously.

I really don't see the point of a NC letter anyhow. This woman is not going to acknowledge it. She's been spitting in your face for how long now in secret?

He is putting this ahead of you, so out he goes.

You cannot argue, convince, or persuade this man to act like an adult. Either he man's up and finds the maturity to act like an adult or you need to get away from him before he turns you into a complete pile of goo.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

This is a important subject and one that I have a love/hate relationship with. 

A perfect NC letter would be initiated by the WS on their own and direct/simple and finite. Sadly that's not usually the case. In most situations the BS is using it as a demand and the WS complies but without any real intentions to honor it. 

In my case my spouse took it upon himself (I was unaware and he cc'd me in on it!!!!)to write one and it's the most horrible haunting NC letter ever. It reads like a romance novel....puke. The language he used attempted to elevate the cheap online "love" to some sort of legitimate romance for the times.....it's hurtful, ridiculous,insulting and childish at the same time. Let me bless you with a sample. 

" _Writing this was good for me, I'm feeling sad, it's still making me sad, yet all I want to do is make you feel better and I know I can't, this is my goodbye. There's so much more I'd like to say, but I'll just regress into wishes and dreams and I'd prefer to remember what we had without clouding the memory with something that can never be.

The time we had together was great, I wish it could continue, I wish we could do all the things we talked about. Everything I said to you was true, I do love you and you will always have a place in my heart. _" <--------*Not how you write a NC letter.* 


What they "had" was a two week long online romance-----:scratchhead: Of course her response was pretty much the same...which really serves to let them continue to pretend that it was some sort of once in lifetime connection...pfffffttt 



Lucky for me, spouse has maintained NC (although who can say if they ever google the OP while at work etc) but his actions and behavior seem legit. 

You are right..if they really want to stay in contact they will and do we really want to spend our precious years policing them?? I know I don't. If they want to cheat bad enough they will find a work around and good riddance to them if they do. 

I forgot the best part....about 6 months ago I googled her FB page because I was being nosy and low and behold if she didn't get engage to someone about 4 weeks after I busted their EA.....which makes reading his NC to her really funny now...so she was obviously throwing bait to a few men hoping to land one. 

Catfish- party of one here.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

anchorwatch said:


> Stressed, have you read "Not just friends" by Shirley Glass yet? If not, do so ASAP. Google it, there's a web site to browse. You really need.to understand the phases he's in.


I have not seen that book but will check it out! Thanks so much!


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

Philat said:


> In his state of mind I agree now that the NC letter probably means nothing. I do not agree that NC letters are always pointless, however. They are a means of promoting healing and reconciliation AFTER the affair has ended and the WS needs to demonstrate commitment to the BS. NC letters will not end an ongoing affair. In cases like yours exposure is the means to that end.


Thanks! I am considering the exposure part. I mentioned upthread I have to be careful though because if he loses his job it's bad for both of us.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

Allen_A said:


> Oh please don't let him use the mid life crisis excuse... That excuse is just some ridiculous urban legend...
> 
> If you have to CONVINCE him to end his involvement, then you have your answer on how committed he is.
> 
> ...


Allen, I like your straightforward no BS style!  He's not using the ML Crisis excuse, I am. I told him he's in a full blown Crisis mode. He's done everything on the list from trying to cover his gray to finding younger music to getting on Instagram. It's textbook. But you're right, he is capable of making his own decisions. Sadly, she's more important to him than me as of this 5 minutes. 

Thanks for your thoughts!


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

daggeredheart said:


> This is a important subject and one that I have a love/hate relationship with.
> 
> A perfect NC letter would be initiated by the WS on their own and direct/simple and finite. Sadly that's not usually the case. In most situations the BS is using it as a demand and the WS complies but without any real intentions to honor it.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I don't want to keep trying to bust him at something. It's exhausting! I have no trust right now. His actions aren't matching his words.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Stressedandsad said:


> Allen, I like your straightforward no BS style!  He's not using the ML Crisis excuse, I am. I told him he's in a full blown Crisis mode. He's done everything on the list from trying to cover his gray to finding younger music to getting on Instagram. It's textbook. But you're right, he is capable of making his own decisions. Sadly, she's more important to him than me as of this 5 minutes.
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts!


Don't tell him it's a midlife crisis, that just gives him justification.

Have you ever heard of anyone who is in a midlife crisis that STOPPED it just because someone offered them that analysis?

It's pointless.

Hold him accountable as a grown adult.

Don't tell him he's going through some crisis, he won't care.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

If he's fighting this hard to keep her in his life, he will almost assuredly go underground. The letter will do nothing.

I don't think, from what you've written, that she is all that interested in him, but she also could give a rat's a*s about you and your marriage. This means that they both have attitudes that hurt you.

I wouldn't agree to make any move with him. Given his attitude, I would give him his 'wings to fly.' Let him crash and burn on his own. This is so hard, I know, but pride is important, not just for you, but also as a signal to him that you are not the background noise in his life.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

alte Dame said:


> If he's fighting this hard to keep her in his life, he will almost assuredly go underground. The letter will do nothing.
> 
> I don't think, from what you've written, that she is all that interested in him, but she also could give a rat's a*s about you and your marriage. This means that they both have attitudes that hurt you.
> 
> I wouldn't agree to make any move with him. Given his attitude, I would give him his 'wings to fly.' Let him crash and burn on his own. This is so hard, I know, but pride is important, not just for you, but also as a signal to him that you are not the background noise in his life.


Thank you! Good thoughts!


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Wings-- oh yes the quickest way to suck the fire out of affairs of any type is to set them free. Even though it feels so counter intuitive it really works.

When I kicked spouse out of house it was a wake up call. When he had to live with just her keeping him entertained (via puter) it left a lot of gaping holes in his life. 

There is a lot of confusion on your part as well that you will go through. Questioning if you want him back, what kind of marriage you actually had, what does this say about his boundaries etc. That doesn't get talked about as much and I think it deserves it's own in depth discussion ---> The BS fog.....how we compromise on many things in the panic of the moment and our own irrational thought process as we struggle to right the ship.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Stressedandsad said:


> No, OW has not been giving him any kind of stop sign at all. That's the problem. She just keeps giggling (she is young enough to be his daughter) and saying he's so sweet. He also keeps trying to see her when he travels and she meets him for dinner. Twice that I know of. So she's encouraging him. She's just not reciprocating by going over the line like he is. It's still inappropriate.


Meeting him for dinner is reciprocating, and going over the line. What would you think if the situation was reversed? And would you not want to know if you were in the boyfriends position? Your partner has poor boundaries and jeopardizes your relationship, don't you think that's something you'd like to know and hopefully address, before you have a ring, kids and a mortgage maybe?

Your husband is an idiot, but she is not dealing with it effectively in any sense either.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

daggeredheart said:


> Wings-- oh yes the quickest way to suck the fire out of affairs of any type is to set them free. Even though it feels so counter intuitive it really works.
> 
> When I kicked spouse out of house it was a wake up call. When he had to live with just her keeping him entertained (via puter) it left a lot of gaping holes in his life.
> 
> There is a lot of confusion on your part as well that you will go through. Questioning if you want him back, what kind of marriage you actually had, what does this say about his boundaries etc. That doesn't get talked about as much and I think it deserves it's own in depth discussion ---> The BS fog.....how we compromise on many things in the panic of the moment and our own irrational thought process as we struggle to right the ship.


That's exactly how I feel right now. Confused! I agree setting him free might knock sense into him but I am not sure I want him back after he experiments with single life. But I'm in too much pain right now to think straight. 

Thanks for your insight!


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Another recommendation for "Not Just Friends". Its available for Kindle edition so can be downloaded right away!


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

SadandAngry said:


> Meeting him for dinner is reciprocating, and going over the line. What would you think if the situation was reversed? And would you not want to know if you were in the boyfriends position? Your partner has poor boundaries and jeopardizes your relationship, don't you think that's something you'd like to know and hopefully address, before you have a ring, kids and a mortgage maybe?
> 
> Your husband is an idiot, but she is not dealing with it effectively in any sense either.


She was meeting him for dinner as part of networking for both of them. She's a recruiter and he was out of a job last year. But once he started flirting with her, she should have said something right then and there. She didn't! She is using him I'm afraid. For business connections and for the gifts he has sent to her. Plus, I'm sure she likes the attention. She gets a ton of it though...she's a head turner...in a trashy sort of way. I'm sure she gets hit on daily. Why does she need my 50 yr old husband? Oh yeah, he has money.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Stressedandsad said:


> She was meeting him for dinner as part of networking for both of them. She's a recruiter and he was out of a job last year. But once he started flirting with her, she should have said something right then and there. She didn't! She is using him I'm afraid. For business connections and for the gifts he has sent to her. Plus, I'm sure she likes the attention. She gets a ton of it though...she's a head turner...in a trashy sort of way. I'm sure she gets hit on daily. Why does she need my 50 yr old husband? Oh yeah, he has money.


Like any woman, we all are flattered when flirted with. No matter what the age. But, how exactly is she reciprocating? She is not going 'out' to dinner with him, but she is texting him, emailing? Are these frivolous and plenty? 

If they are work related, I don't see how you can out her. If she is in text conversation at all hours about inane things while he flirts with her, then you should get copies and absolutely out her. This is a behaviour that her bf should be given the heads up on. 

The real problem here is obviously your husband. You need to deal with him, I think letting him have his freedom is the only way. He is showing he cares very little for you and his marriage. 

So, you can coast along like this til he really does go astray, or you can show him what you expect from him, and what kind of husband you refuse to be married to, by showing him the door.


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## Rubicon (Jan 13, 2014)

Out her to the boyfriend. Soon as you can.

They went to diner twice while he was out of town staying at a hotel. You have no way of knowing they didn't go back there and do the deed. She might just be smarter than he is and knows better than to leave any details in an email. Don't let that slight of hand sway you into believing there isn't more to it. Keeping in contact and meeting up with a married man while he is away from his wife kind of gives you all you really need to know about her. Expose.

Gifts? Really? Networking is just business speak for getting together socially and drinking with people you are not actually doing business with. 

You don't have 100% proof it went PA but you would be dumb not to think it did, for that reason alone you should expose.

Also, you really need to reconsider the value you are placing on his employment. You can get a court to enforce support payments and he will need to replace the job if he loses it. All while paying to live somewhere else. If she is really after his money she will reconsider after you are done with him and you will still live as you are now until you are able to find a new means of support. Go after the whole shebang, house and all.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Stressedandsad said:


> Why does she need my 50 yr old husband? Oh yeah, he has money.


Have you spoken with a lawyer yet to find out what your rights are?

And no, you don't check with your husband first. Just go and keep it close to the vest.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

Allen_A said:


> Have you spoken with a lawyer yet to find out what your rights are?
> 
> And no, you don't check with your husband first. Just go and keep it close to the vest.


I have met with a lawyer. Pretty much 50% of assets, plus child support and spousal support. Could be for life! Although we'd have to agree on that or it could get ugly quick. I think a fair settlement would be a monthly payment until kids out of school. 6 more years. 
We talked about options briefly and he wants mediation. Still could be complicated financial settlement though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

Looks like he wants to go ahead with the divorce. I just can't believe it could be over after all these years! I'm really having a tough time of all of this. I just wish I could wake up from my nightmare. 

I'll get stronger but right now, I'm mush!


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

If he wants a divorce over this then you know 100% they are not "JUST friends"


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

vi_bride04 said:


> If he wants a divorce over this then you know 100% they are not "JUST friends"


He's using the classic "I've been unhappy for years" line. I know it's probably for the best but I am going through pure hell right now.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

I'm willing to bet you've been a great wife to him. Some guys just don't see what a jewel they have until it's too late. When reality hits, it can be a real crusher. Stay strong. You'll come out of this better than he will I can almost guarantee it. :smthumbup:


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Once you follow through on what he wants (being apart/possible divorce) then he just has "her" and it sounds like she is totally gaming him for the fool he is. 

You should have outed her to the boyfriend pronto...you would have seen this imploded from that point. I don't know why you continued to avoid that exposure???? 

You have to do that even if you don't want him back. It's a crucial step. 

You have lost the advantage because you kept thinking that if you just drew one more line in the sand he would respect it but a guy like yours wont. He views you as nagging about this girl.

You made lots of threats and did a lot of puffing but none of it helped. I finally found your other thread and it gave a fuller picture- there was no way you should have been asking for NC letter when he flat out told you he wasn't going to stop talking to her- he thinks he owns all the cards. 

Yet.........this is where you can regain your momentum. 


Expose like you are the national enquirer. 

Get back in touch with your lawyer and get the best legal protection you can. 


Get your support network in place now...wagons around the fire style. 

Eat/Sleep/Move/ You've got to keep your body /head in battle shape for this journey ahead of you. When you start obsessing...find a healthy obsession. Mind movies, images, torturing yourself over the what ifs? Get distracted with something else. I know it's cliche but it works. 

It's sad when men trade in the wife for the younger model but in your case your man is playing a game where he will come up empty handed. 

I can guarantee that there is *NO* possible way this woman wants any sort of real relationship with a dude who's 50 when she's in her twenties. He's a fool to think that. The only 50 year old men who can pull that piece is celebrities, super wealthy and super good looking. We need to be talking George Clooney type stuff here. 


A 28 year old hottie who looks like a stripper has her pick of men and she can get just as hot of a 38 yr old wealthy man and she would much rather have than than a 50 year old man.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

daggeredheart said:


> Once you follow through on what he wants (being apart/possible divorce) then he just has "her" and it sounds like she is totally gaming him for the fool he is.
> 
> You should have outed her to the boyfriend pronto...you would have seen this imploded from that point. I don't know why you continued to avoid that exposure????
> 
> ...



Oh I know you're right daggered. I keep trying to figure out what I'm afraid of when calling the boyfriend. First, it's not my style at all. I'm not the type to stir up drama. Second, I'm afraid it'll infuriate hubby and he'll turn into a monster and start hiding money or something. Last, I was afraid he would just ask his girlfriend, she would say she hasn't said anything inappropriate and I'm exagerating and they would both think I'm a crazed, jealous wife.

He asked me what I was going to tell our friends and I said the truth. Then, he proceeds to say then he'll tell everyone I haven't been the perfect wife/saint either. We're talking over 25 years ago that we BOTH were not exactly perfect. I thought we had long gotten over that but he's dredging it up to minimize what he's doing today. We were young, stupid and immature. At some point, I grew up and he didn't.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

thummper said:


> I'm willing to bet you've been a great wife to him. Some guys just don't see what a jewel they have until it's too late. When reality hits, it can be a real crusher. Stay strong. You'll come out of this better than he will I can almost guarantee it. :smthumbup:


Thank you but not perfect by any means. I've made mistakes too. The difference is I owned up to them right away. He's not taking any responsibility for his current behavior at all.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Stressedandsad said:


> He asked me what I was going to tell our friends and I said the truth. Then, he proceeds to say then he'll tell everyone I haven't been the perfect wife/saint either. :


Why are you giving up your cards?

Why on earth are you just handing over your game plans?

He's baiting you to spill what you have so HE can prepare HIMSELF are you are handing over every detail to him with a big red bow on it.

_Stop talking to him_. Stop sharing information until he's mature enough to manage it constructively.

Which is most likely never.

One of the first things you do when you find out your spouse is cheating : 

a. STOP sharing information with your spouse.
b. Get an STD Test

In that order.

_You do NOT share information with someone who covertly sabotages your marriage.
_

They are not to be trusted once they have crossed that line.

Stop engaging with him other than to hear him out. YOU share nothing.

_Don't let him bait you into revealing any more information.
_


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

And of course he's going to dig up past history to discredit you.

That's textbook.

You don't reveal infidelity to embarass, disredit, or humiliate. You reveal infidelity to protect people.

Who is he protecting you from by discrediting you?

No one. It's just airing dirty laundry in public and it's childish.

You can't stop him from doing that.

But you can stop giving away your plans.

Once you catch your spouse cheating you need to stop talking, and start collecting information so you know where you stand.

Stop talking and start information-gathering.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

I knew you'd kick my ass this morning Allen!  
Okay, back to reading the 180 and trying to get my **** together!


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Stressedandsad said:


> I knew you'd kick my ass this morning Allen!
> Okay, back to reading the 180 and trying to get my **** together!


Until further notice put your husband on a need to know basis.

And unless you two have issues to co-parent, there's nothing he needs to know.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

One hint for the females out there. Men in particular are good at saying one thing and doing something completely different... without their spouse even noticing.

SAS don't let your husband pull that stunt. Ignore what he's saying and let what he's doing do the talking for him.

What is he doing? What is his behavior saying to you?


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Stressedandsad said:


> Oh I know you're right daggered. I keep trying to figure out what I'm afraid of when calling the boyfriend. First, it's not my style at all. I'm not the type to stir up drama. Second, I'm afraid it'll infuriate hubby and he'll turn into a monster and start hiding money or something. Last, I was afraid he would just ask his girlfriend, she would say she hasn't said anything inappropriate and I'm exagerating and they would both think I'm a crazed, jealous wife.
> 
> He asked me what I was going to tell our friends and I said the truth. Then, he proceeds to say then he'll tell everyone I haven't been the perfect wife/saint either. We're talking over 25 years ago that we BOTH were not exactly perfect. I thought we had long gotten over that but he's dredging it up to minimize what he's doing today. We were young, stupid and immature. At some point, I grew up and he didn't.





This is the part where you put on your Angela Bassett how Stella got her Grove back and you find that spine!!!!!!!

You have a right to be a pissed off wife and one that exposes and lets the chips fall where they may. You expose and I would expect no less from any spouse who valued their marriage. 

You crazy jealous wife..."damn straight, you wear that crown proudly.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

Allen_A said:


> One hint for the females out there. Men in particular are good at saying one thing and doing something completely different... without their spouse even noticing.
> 
> SAS don't let your husband pull that stunt. Ignore what he's saying and let what he's doing do the talking for him.
> 
> What is he doing? What is his behavior saying to you?


He's changing passwords, taking his phone to the bathroom with him and locking up his laptop. Yep, his actions are pretty loud alright. I've been googling all day trying to find info on a financial planner. I plan to make an appointment next week. Also looking at some career ideas where I can still pick up kids after school. Trying to get stronger. Bear with me though as I've just had 33 years flash before my eyes.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

daggeredheart said:


> This is the part where you put on your Angela Bassett how Stella got her Grove back and you find that spine!!!!!!!
> 
> You have a right to be a pissed off wife and one that exposes and lets the chips fall where they may. You expose and I would expect no less from any spouse who valued their marriage.
> 
> You crazy jealous wife..."damn straight, you wear that crown proudly.


You're a good motivator! ::::Adjusting my crown::::


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Stressedandsad said:


> He's changing passwords,
> taking his phone to the bathroom with him and
> locking up his laptop.
> .


He's speaking so loudly and with such clarity that his hiding what he's doing is pointless isn't it?

I mean, does he seriously think he's fooling you behaving this way?

Does he seriously think you don't know what he's doing with the phone and the laptop? lol

Protect yourself and your children. Speak with a lawyer ASAP.

He's speaking loud and clear to you without saying a thing.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

Update for you all. Had a few conversations where WS said he'd like to work it out. I layed out what I expect including no more contact with OW, transparency etc. and he agreed. However, he had a meeting set up with her and her boyfriend and he was going to keep it. He thought (in his warped Mid Life Crisis brain) that it would provide some sort of closure to see her with her boyfriend. Yeah, I know that makes me Plan B. Still, I thought there might be a chance we could right this ship. His meeting went fine with them. He says that he totally sees her only as a friend, yada yada. I said my conditions remain the same. I fully expect him to delete her from his life. He started waffling again. He still says he needs time to figure out why he is feeling the way he does and why he reached out to someone else. He asked again if we could just separate for a year. I said no way, it's unfair to me to wait around for him to decide he wants me. My feeling is that he is depressed and needs therapy and possibly meds to get through this. He's unhappy and I'm the easy target. It makes me crazy but I can't do anything about it.

So, my friends. I guess you all were right. The writing on the wall was painfully written in Sharpie. Can't blame a girl for hoping her 28 year marriage wasn't over. I will be calling the lawyer this week to see about "coaching". WS and I had agreed to try to mediation so the fees don't get out of hand but I need to be sure I'm protecting myself and getting the best settlement. Another friend on here told me I need to go ahead and file but I'm not sure if I can do that since his job is not permanent yet. We are waiting for his work Visa to come through. I have many questions for the lawyer.

I'm slowly starting to face reality. I had been in such a painful, painful spot. I actually felt like I was going to die. At least now, I'm sad but a little stronger. Still down in weight but working out several days a week and eating a bit better. 

Thanks all for your help


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Just do what you have to do at this point.

His disrespect is clear as rain.

He thinks he can jerk you around and get away with it.

He may not be cheating, but he's

a. not taking ownership
b. disrespecting you and your hurt by choosing to meet with her again - I don't care if the meeting was chaperoned, you did not want him there and he went anyways
c. playing head games with his non-committal attitude
d. more worried more about why he behaves the way he does than how hurt you are

I find a lot of waywards try this "I need to know why I do the things I do..." crap and all they are doing is looking for something to SHIFT BLAME onto :

a. mid life crisis
b. depression
c. anxiety
d. addiction
e. bad childhood

Etc. If HE is playing this "I need to explore why I do this" he's most likely just trying to take the spotlight OFF of himSELF. If he is looking outside himself for explanations he's not taking ownership.

He is jerking you around and you need to shut this down.

You have given him a zillion chances now and he tries to play you like a poker sucker.

The good news is that it sounds as if you aren't falling for it.

Well done.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Every line he uttered is classic and predictable. I love how he thinks you will wait a year while he sorts it out and assumes in that time you won't move on or that another man won't snatch you up due to being irresistable (of course you are !!!!).....

The whole "closure" fix he felt he needed only highlights what a tool he is. 

I can't wait to see you shine and I fully expect a update in a year about how awesome your life is.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It sounds like he wants the freedom to play. I'm glad you've decided that you won't be his Plan B. Good luck!


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

In my clinical assessment his "depression" is not typical. I would suggest if he is depressed that the cause is the OW. He is not happy with you. 

The one year separation is what we call in the military, a feint. It is pretending to do one thing out of deception and in reality you do something else.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

Thorburn said:


> In my clinical assessment his "depression" is not typical. I would suggest if he is depressed that the cause is the OW. He is not happy with you.
> 
> The one year separation is what we call in the military, a feint. It is pretending to do one thing out of deception and in reality you do something else.


So maybe not clinically depressed? But certainly has every ear mark of a Mid Life Crisis right down to trying to color his grey, hanging with a younger crowd, younger music, working out every day and dumping his wife of 29 years.

Yes, he's not happy with me. That's what he keeps saying.  

That's almost harder to take than he wants to be a cake eater. He doesn't want me at all.

I'm having a horrible day! I need to find a good counselor pronto but having trouble. Both the recomendations I got are not accepting new clients. I'm back to picking one off the internet and having a good cry today.

PS. Called the lawyer to set up another meeting but she's not in today either.


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## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

Stressedandsad said:


> So maybe not clinically depressed? But certainly has every ear mark of a Mid Life Crisis right down to trying to color his grey, hanging with a younger crowd, younger music, working out every day and dumping his wife of 29 years.
> 
> Yes, he's not happy with me. That's what he keeps saying.
> 
> ...


Fack, this is brutal to hear...He needs that kick...I had what I think is my MLC earlier this year, too. Though I've not thought of kicking my wife to the curb. But it was a rough couple of months. I blinked and I was 45...I really missed my wife. Raising kids for the last 17 years, we forgot to pay attention to each other as husband/wife. We were mom and dad 24/7.

I can only hope that a swift and unwavering stressedandsad can get him to get out of his funk...

Do the 180
Prepare for life without him
work out
Dress nicer
Disconnect from his manipulation, live your life
Forget the Lawyer's schedule, send him a divorce proposal from a DIY site

It's time for shock and awe. He's doing this because you're tolerating it. When you show him you don't care, he'll go into a different mode...

Stay strong....


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

john1068 said:


> Fack, this is brutal to hear...He needs that kick...I had what I think is my MLC earlier this year, too. Though I've not thought of kicking my wife to the curb. But it was a rough couple of months. I blinked and I was 45...I really missed my wife. Raising kids for the last 17 years, we forgot to pay attention to each other as husband/wife. We were mom and dad 24/7.
> 
> I can only hope that a swift and unwavering stressedandsad can get him to get out of his funk...
> 
> ...


Thanks John!

I'm doing most of your list! Bought some new clothes and I look cute dammit! 😊 Working out and trying to eat better. Looking at homes for sale for me and kids. Printing up a DIY divorce form probably wouldn't do much since I've already printed up an asset sheet on what I'm going to ask for. It only phased him a little. When the lawyer calls back, I'll be making an appointment for coaching. She's going to go over my settlement proposal and make sure I didn't miss anything! 

My only glimmer of hope is that he does still say he's confused about what he wants. He wishes I wouldn't rush into anything. Coincidentally, the book "Not Just Friends" also recommends waiting! Back to confusion i go! 😒
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Wait for what? You've laid it out pretty plainly. The damage you allow to be caused to you while he dithers adds up pretty quickly. You will not forget it easily. He is throwing his life away, but that's his mistake to make. You don't have to make it yours too.

My wife recommitted, but also did not go complete nc for just under 90 days. We are three years into R, and truth be told, I am still on the fence as to whether I really want to stay in this relationship. That's because my self respect keeps wondering about someone who would choose a cheating, self serving piece of **** (om is married too). Yes, I won out in the end, but what kind of prize? At what cost? Is it worth it? Is that the model I want to set for my kids? I don't know from day to day sometimes.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

Why did you allow her to go 90 days before NC? Just curious. My WS didn't get to the point of affair because OW put him in the friend zone! If she had said yes though, he would've been gone I'm sure! He just keeps saying he's not sure why he pursued her. He needs time to evaluate his feelings and figure out why he's unhappy! I think a therapist would do him wonders but he's not willing or able.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

Stressedandsad said:


> Thanks John!
> 
> Coincidentally, the book "Not Just Friends" also recommends waiting! Back to confusion i go! 😒
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I believe that the waiting referred to in "Not Just Friends" is when you are in a R. You are NOT in a R right now...he's on the fence, eating cake...

Once he's shaped up, is on board with terms of R, then you can wait...

Of course he doesn't want you to rush this...it's going to kill his fun...


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

John, you are relatively new to this board, and I'm glad you are here. Your posts are on the money. Good job.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Stressedandsad said:


> Why did you allow her to go 90 days before NC? Just curious. My WS didn't get to the point of affair because OW put him in the friend zone! If she had said yes though, he would've been gone I'm sure! He just keeps saying he's not sure why he pursued her. He needs time to evaluate his feelings and figure out why he's unhappy! I think a therapist would do him wonders but he's not willing or able.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was making it up as I went. I'd uncovered the affair, figured out my part in the lead up, had done some serious soul searching just prior to d day and had decided to fully commit to making our marriage better (things had gotten to the unfriendly roommate stage). That's why I started paying attention. I was trying to finesse things, to not be too harsh, to nice herback. We had a ton of things going on too, everyone of them super stressful. Too much to think about really, so I just got on with things, because that's all I could do. I didnt even ask for nc until I finally went to see an ic, maybe 6 or 7 weeks after d day. That was the first thing the I c said. So I told my wife. She agreed, but did nothing about it for another 5 or 6 weeks. Every single day she put it off weighs against her in my mind now. By the time she did it, I didn't really give a **** anymore. I was struggling just to stay put at that point. To resist having a revenge affair. This was all long before I found TAM.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

Well I can't remember which section it was in but I thought it was the one about being on the fence (for both of us). In any event, I do still understand why giving him time is just allowing him to be a cake eater. Although, he hasn't really had much time to talk to her. He's immersed in traveling and work right now.

In her book Not “Just Friends” Dr. Shirley Glass recommends that a couple wait three months before making a final decision about the relationship. Feelings of ambivalence and uncertainty are common in the weeks after the discovery of infidelity, and they can cloud both partners’ commitment to the relationship.

Rather than feeling like you have to reach a conclusion quickly—especially amid so much confusion—start working towards repairing the relationship and give yourselves three months to get your bearings.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

I kept reminding myself who I was in the end. Who I chose to be. Kept a lid on the anger as well as I could, and persevered. Reminded myself of the progress I was making. Kept on with the fake it 'til you make it attitude, and let her choose her way back into the marriage. As I say, I'm not sure that was the best way to deal, actually I'm sure it wasnt now, but I did the best I could at the time. To my credit, I did take control of my situation to a large degree, I made decisions and acted on them, I cleaned up my own act a lot. I was in contact with the OM too, and had him worried enough about what I might do, to make him choose to stay away from us for the most part. It got to the point he told my wife he dreaded hearing from her. That did a lot to shatter her image of him.


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

SadandAngry said:


> I kept reminding myself who I was in the end. Who I chose to be. Kept a lid on the anger as well as I could, and persevered. Reminded myself of the progress I was making. Kept on with the fake it 'til you make it attitude, and let her choose her way back into the marriage. As I say, I'm not sure that was the best way to deal, actually I'm sure it wasnt now, but I did the best I could at the time. To my credit, I did take control of my situation to a large degree, I made decisions and acted on them, I cleaned up my own act a lot. I was in contact with the OM too, and had him worried enough about what I might do, to make him choose to stay away from us for the most part. It got to the point he told my wife he dreaded hearing from her. That did a lot to shatter her image of him.


Sadandangry, how long have you been married? Kids? Part of my wanting to make this work has to do with the amount of time I've invested. 33 years with this man. Plus, the kids, the stability and me being scared to be on my own with no job. I feel like we can "fake it to we make it" too. We once had something nice! Do you feel like you can never get back to where you once were? Or make a new beginning?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Some people can R successfully and some cannot. It depends on the willingness of the WS to reconcile and mean it. Right now he doesn't seem very interested. I was one of those who felt he would do exactly what he's done. He could, however, still come out of it. The question is how long do you want to wait?

You need to move forward with your life. You can always change your mind later but for now plan your life as if he's not in it. Because he might not be.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

We had our 14th anniversary on a Monday, d day was Wed/Thursday, and I confronted on the Friday. 3 kids, a mortgage, yadda, yadda. Those things have kept me from walking, partly because I would still be paying, and that thought angers me. I was the primary earner for all of that time, and this a happened on the cusp of my wife getting the opportunity of a lifetime, something we had been working towards (together I thought) for a decade. I would be punished harshly, despite the fact that she was the one who chose to, I don't know, demean herself is a polite term.

Can I get back to where we were? I don't want to go back there, and never will, but that's not what you mean. Yes, I believe we could make a new beginning. We already have, in many ways. 
She has been a big part of that though. If she behaved like your husband, there's no ****ing way. She has done a lot to try to show that she had learned lessons, that she regrets her actions. Has she done everything? No, by no means. Enough? Maybe. Some days yes, some no. Our marriage is far better than it was. Our communication, and conflict, and resolution is light years beyond what we were doing. Our understanding of our roles, the effects the choices we make individually and together is far greater.

I don't stay because I fear leaving. I'd be fine alone. So would she. We both know that. We've already overcome so much, change isn't scary. I suppose I stay because I can see the value of what we can have. But the past cannot change. What's done is done. It will always be there. It's my struggle to leave it in the past, to find the way forward. To accept the unacceptable, but I will end up doing that anyway, no matter what. Because I will not be a victim of myself. Will not remain a victim of her choices. If ultimately, the terms we compromise on are not enough, I will have to do it on my own terms.

Does that make sense?


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

SadandAngry said:


> We had our 14th anniversary on a Monday, d day was Wed/Thursday, and I confronted on the Friday. 3 kids, a mortgage, yadda, yadda. Those things have kept me from walking, partly because I would still be paying, and that thought angers me. I was the primary earner for all of that time, and this a happened on the cusp of my wife getting the opportunity of a lifetime, something we had been working towards (together I thought) for a decade. I would be punished harshly, despite the fact that she was the one who chose to, I don't know, demean herself is a polite term.
> 
> Can I get back to where we were? I don't want to go back there, and never will, but that's not what you mean. Yes, I believe we could make a new beginning. We already have, in many ways.
> She has been a big part of that though. If she behaved like your husband, there's no ****ing way. She has done a lot to try to show that she had learned lessons, that she regrets her actions. Has she done everything? No, by no means. Enough? Maybe. Some days yes, some no. Our marriage is far better than it was. Our communication, and conflict, and resolution is light years beyond what we were doing. Our understanding of our roles, the effects the choices we make individually and together is far greater.
> ...


Yes, makes perfect sense! I think you sound like you're doing well despite the uphill climb. I love the comment you made about seeing the value of what you can have. :smthumbup:


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## Stressedandsad (Jan 29, 2014)

Openminded said:


> Some people can R successfully and some cannot. It depends on the willingness of the WS to reconcile and mean it. Right now he doesn't seem very interested. I was one of those who felt he would do exactly what he's done. He could, however, still come out of it. The question is how long do you want to wait?
> You need to move forward with your life. You can always change your mind later but for now plan your life as if he's not in it. Because he might not be.


I know! Waiting....it's maddening. Yes, I am planning to move forward without him and doing all the things I'm supposed to. (just got a credit card in my own name today) but I still hold out hope he comes out of it before everything is final. No matter what happens from this point on, either path is going to be painful.


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