# Marriage is.....



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Consider this an informal survey. I am looking for opinions, because there can be no objective answer here. I want to see what everyone thinks.

I'll start.

Marriage is a committed relationship that last, or is intended to last for a long time. In this context, the term committed means that a large focus is on the relationship, although not 100%. Also in this context, a relationship has two or more individuals within it.

Marriage comes in a variety of forms and are made for a variety of reasons.These forms can also over lap. From my observations, marriage comes in three basic forms; legal, social, and religious, the last of which may or may not be considered a subset of social.

There it is. If you have questions on my view, please feel free to ask. And please post your own view.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Well the law has an objective answer to what marriage is, but it only applies to the aspects they need to be concerned with and isn't very helpful to someone searching for the meaning in it. Which is as it should be.

I consider it a partnership. To some people it is being partners in their religion, whereas others have different religions. For some it is partners raising their children, but some couples conspicuously avoid having children. Economic partnership was once more important than it is now, as the modern economy and modern appliances have given people more independence. There are umpty-ump other bases for a partnership, all of which are optional in a marriage. So we each define our own marriage.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

SpinyNorman said:


> Well the law has an objective answer to what marriage is, but it only applies to the aspects they need to be concerned with and isn't very helpful to someone searching for the meaning in it. Which is as it should be.


I would point out that it is only objective within the scope of the law itself. Given that different countries have different legal definitions of marriage, then even legal marriage is subjective.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

I think it's interesting that marriage has evolved from being a business contract, to being an agency for the emotional care and protection of the partners in it.

For me, marriage is a romantic ideal and very valuable...but I never felt more committed or devoted after marriage than I did before it - my love and dedication to the man I love is the SAME, with or without the legal contract. I can be happy and have exactly what I want from a loving, committed relationship without being married.

I would like to know, in the poly community, does a marriage denote the partners' most important relationship...??


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

I'm going to be a realist here lol...sorry for the negativity in some instances, but it is what it is. Marriage is a commitment, hard work to make-it-work on most days. It's a handful of good times, with ups and downs for the whole duration of it. It is siblings and in-laws, and sometimes competitiveness between them. It's wanting to stay during the good times, and wanting to go when it gets difficult, but you don't... It's getting respect some of the time, and not getting it other times. It's fun at times, boring other times. This is what marriage is to me.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

GC1234 said:


> I'm going to be a realist here lol...sorry for the negativity in some instances, but it is what it is. Marriage is a commitment, *hard work to make-it-work on most days. It's a handful of good times, with ups and downs for the whole duration of it.*


I would agree, but would say this is true of life in general. I guess some people think a good marriage will solve all of their problems, and they desperately need a reality check such as yours. Of course what we should all ask ourselves is, "Will I be happier in this marriage than I would out of it?".

Someone dear to me said "Marrying the right person doesn't solve all of your problems, it is just the best way to get through them."


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

maquiscat said:


> I would point out that it is only objective within the scope of the law itself. Given that different countries have different legal definitions of marriage, then even legal marriage is subjective.


In a given jurisdiction what the law considers to be a marriage is objective. In a different jurisdiction, the law may have different requirements, but they should still be objective.

But maybe you mean something else.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

SpinyNorman said:


> I would agree, but would say this is true of life in general. I guess some people think a good marriage will solve all of their problems, and they desperately need a reality check such as yours. Of course what we should all ask ourselves is, "Will I be happier in this marriage than I would out of it?".
> 
> Someone dear to me said "Marrying the right person doesn't solve all of your problems, it is just the best way to get through them."


Yes, you are right...life is like this overall, but a good marriage, and even having kids will not solve all problems, as some believe. Luckily for me, my parents' marriage was a huge reality check for me, so I never fed into the fantasy of it. The right person probably makes it more bearable, but it's not constant. Sometimes the right person can be annoying, disappointing, lack respect for you at times, etc.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

GC1234 said:


> Yes, you are right...life is like this overall, but a good marriage, and even having kids will not solve all problems, as some believe. Luckily for me, my parents' marriage was a huge reality check for me, so I never fed into the fantasy of it. The right person probably makes it more bearable, but it's not constant. Sometimes the right person can be annoying, disappointing, lack respect for you at times, etc.


Nearly everything in life is a tradeoff. Even the things that are mostly upside will have a downside now and then. 

To some that sounds depressing, for me it liberates me from being disappointed when something isn't perfect.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Often made over complicated. 

A simple approach in marriage is best.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Changes over the life of a marriage. I believe a marriage changes over the course of five, 10, 15, 20, 25, etc years. Love changes over that time as well. My best answer is a thread I used to keep up with but have for many reasons have just stopped maintaining. I don’t think it got many views and I kind of got lazy keeping up with it. I would only pick it up again if folks wanted to hear more, otherwise it is what it is. 









Mr. and Mrs. Drerio's Journey


At the request of SimplyAmorous, I will start a journal that chronicles things that we (my lovely bride and myself) find helps us in working towards a longterm successful marriage. Let me first say that "successful" does not mean perfect. I don't think perfect could ever describe a healthy...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

SpinyNorman said:


> In a given jurisdiction what the law considers to be a marriage is objective. In a different jurisdiction, the law may have different requirements, but they should still be objective.
> 
> But maybe you mean something else.


That's kind of what I'm saying. Only by limiting to one area or another can you make a legal marriage definition objective. As a whole, it remains subjective, as shown by the wide variety of legal definitions.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> I would like to know, in the poly community, does a marriage denote the partners' most important relationship...??


As a general rule of thumb, I would say yes, with the caveat that different people and units label things differently. Some might not call it a marriage simply because the legal aspect isn't there. You and I might look at it and say that it's a marriage regardless of the lack of legality.

There is also the variety of how people ascribe "most important". Some would say that the partners that they do not live with are as important as those they do live with, or in some cases, more important. As I have noted before, "There is no one True Way."

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

maquiscat said:


> As a general rule of thumb, I would say yes, with the caveat that different people and units label things differently. Some might not call it a marriage simply because the legal aspect isn't there. You and I might look at it and say that it's a marriage regardless of the lack of legality.
> 
> There is also the variety of how people ascribe "most important". Some would say that the partners that they do not live with are as important as those they do live with, or in some cases, more important. As I have noted before, "There is no one True Way."
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


SOOOOO interesting!!!

So then, what is the point of marriage in the poly community, I wonder...? (not that you have an answer to that)

Do most married poly-people start their poly-journey married...??


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

LisaDiane said:


> Do most married poly-people start their poly-journey married...??


Many do start married, as many discover they are poly later on (this can be problematical unless _both_ want to investigate poly relationships). Some may know they're poly up front, but have only found one person (so far) and choose to marry for the usual reasons. A small number of married poly couples will go so far as to divorce so as to make other partners more equal.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Married but Happy said:


> Many do start married, as many discover they are poly later on (this can be problematical unless _both_ want to investigate poly relationships).


I am still not clear on how someone "discovers" they are poly - do they recognize that they feel love for two (or more) people at the same time...? Or do they just feel attracted to other people, AND ALSO feel driven to explore those feelings?



Married but Happy said:


> A small number of married poly couples will go so far as to divorce so as to make other partners more equal.


WOW...so that is instead of "marrying" (or committing) to those other partners...?

Again, I find the fluidity of poly-relationships and ways of defining them fascinating and I have great respect for the effort involved and how much communication is needed!


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

SpinyNorman said:


> To some that sounds depressing, for me it liberates me from being disappointed when something isn't perfect.


I agree, you don't set yourself up for disaster if you expect reality lol.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

LisaDiane said:


> I am still not clear on how someone "discovers" they are poly - do they recognize that they feel love for two (or more) people at the same time...? Or do they just feel attracted to other people, AND ALSO feel driven to explore those feelings?
> 
> WOW...so that is instead of "marrying" (or committing) to those other partners...?
> 
> Again, I find the fluidity of poly-relationships and ways of defining them fascinating and I have great respect for the effort involved and how much communication is needed!


Most people are socialized or conditioned to be monogamous, and may not even know there are other options. Many people used to be conditioned to be heterosexual, too, but as society became more open, some realized that they had a different orientation. So people tended to suppress and deny their true nature. Eventually, some learn otherwise and decide to explore it, maybe because they feel attracted to someone else, or in addition to their partner/spouse. You can't marry additional partners legally, but you can commit to several. However, legally the married spouse has priority if there is an issue that requires legal attention. This can be especially difficult when a couple (usually with a bi female) wants to add another woman to the mix. There's a common and unpleasant situation that can develop called couple privilege, which diminishes the additional partner. Other than awareness and sincere efforts to avoid that happening, the best solution can be for the couple to divorce so that their other partner is on equal ground legally and emotionally. There are so many ways to practice poly that there are no fixed rules, but there are key principles that should be observed to be ethical and fair.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Not sure this question can be properly answered because people's answers are going to vary depending on their up-bringing, their culture, their opinions and experiences, their religion, and what marriage personally means to them. Then they have to compare that to what it means to the person they're marrying, who might have a VERY different idea of what marriage is. 

But, if you live in certain parts of the world, for example I live in the US, marriage is a business partnership of two people (unless you're one of those weird people, like Joe Exotic), and that's how the government sees it, and more importantly, how the Family and Divorce court will see it for 50% of people walking down the aisle. 

And because I like to answer these kinds of questions with a meme


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> So then, what is the point of marriage in the poly community, I wonder...? (not that you have an answer to that)


What is the point of marriage in the mono community? Well,legally that is obvious, although limited for the poly community. In the case of my spouses, it works out alright because we are a total of four, so we have two legal marriages between us (both obtained before we met). But by and large, most polys don't consider the legal marriage the important one. It's the social and/or religious marriage that matters most. That state of matrimony that no government can control. Some will have a ceremony. Maybe they will call it a wedding, maybe some other name. A rose by any other name.... Others will one day realize that they have been married for a while, and wonder when did that happen, as was the case with my legal wife and I. And polys are just as susceptible of jumping into a marriage or relationship that is not good for any involved. Basically, whatever problems you can have as a monogamous couple, polys will encounter it too.



> Do most married poly-people start their poly-journey married...??


Very mixed bag. My personal journey of discovery occurred after my divorce from the mother of my children and meeting my current legal wife. She insisted that I date others to ensure that she would not be a rebound and I would not latch on to her and miss that we were as incompatible as my first wife. From there we discovered about poly and learned. My other wife had a brief fling as a unicorn (poly bi-sexual that ends up or searches for a couple) before finding her current legal husband. They were open to the idea and aware of polys prior to meeting us, but had not really done anything with or about it. From my experience older people are usually married or divorced/widowed when they find out about poly. Younger people tend to know about it earlier on. Thank you Internets!


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> I am still not clear on how someone "discovers" they are poly - do they recognize that they feel love for two (or more) people at the same time...? Or do they just feel attracted to other people, AND ALSO feel driven to explore those feelings?


Again, no one true way. Some people just know. Others might know subconsciously, but lie to themselves, much as gay or transsexual people have lied to themselves until they finally admit to what they are. Some people learn that they can be poly simply because they were open minded when someone asked them to try it. Then there are people who are monogamous, but have no problem with their partner being poly.




> WOW...so that is instead of "marrying" (or committing) to those other partners...?


I would not say that. What he mean is that the couple who are currently legally married with dissolve the legal marriage, so that all in the poly marriage (or whatever they call it) feel equal and that there isn't more value to one over the other(s).


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Married but Happy said:


> Other than awareness and sincere efforts to avoid that happening, the best solution can be for the couple to divorce so that their other partner is on equal ground legally and emotionally.


There are legal ways that more equality can be achieved without an original couple getting a divorce. There is a whole podcast episode at Touch of Flavor that talks about legal options, and poly.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Broken at 20 said:


> Not sure this question can be properly answered because people's answers are going to vary depending on their up-bringing, their culture, their opinions and experiences, their religion, and what marriage personally means to them.


Yes it can, because I asked what is _your _definition of marriage. I specifically noted I wanted everyone's individual opinion on what it is. Thank you for yours.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

maquiscat said:


> Others will one day realize that they have been married for a while, and wonder when did that happen, as was the case with my legal wife and I.


Now THIS I would love you to explain more...what do you mean, you realized you had already been married for awhile...? You mean, BEFORE you were legally married, you FELT married...?? What made you realize you were married?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

To me, marriage is a beautiful, legal, binding, public committment to another person for life. No matter what (common sense exceptions obviously - abuse, violence). My husband and I are very happily married, and it is our goal to remain so - not just to simply be married.

Are there ups and downs? Rough patches? Sure, of course. But the good times FAR outweigh those. By a country mile.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In both instances during the previous century, when and where I got legally married. The Marriage Act described it as follows: "means the union of a man and a woman to the exclusion of all others, voluntarily entered into for life."


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> Now THIS I would love you to explain more...what do you mean, you realized you had already been married for awhile...? You mean, BEFORE you were legally married, you FELT married...?? What made you realize you were married?


Yes I did mean before being legally married. To us, when we typically speak of being married we mean the relationship not legal recognition. For most people, at least until more modern times, marriage (legal or otherwise) was marked by ceremony. But today, there usually a lot of living together before deciding to get married. Such was the case with Dawn and I. And then one day, in conversation, we realized that we had we had long since been in a state of marriage, having transitioned slowly into it from simply living together. Outside of going to the court to get the legal paperwork, where they forced us to do a small ceremony with the official, we've never had a wedding. We, as a poly unit, also have never had a wedding. And same story. When we reached the point where the other couple had the potential to move, we realized that we had grown to be married, and decided to continue in that vein.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Personal said:


> In both instances during the previous century, when and where I got legally married. The Marriage Act described it as follows: "means the union of a man and a woman to the exclusion of all others, voluntarily entered into for life."


I didn't ask for the Marriage Act's definition, I asked for yours.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

frusdil said:


> To me, marriage is a beautiful, *legal*, binding, public committment to another person for life. No matter what (common sense exceptions obviously - abuse, violence). My husband and I are very happily married, and it is our goal to remain so - not just to simply be married.
> 
> Are there ups and downs? Rough patches? Sure, of course. But the good times FAR outweigh those. By a country mile.


Looking for clarification. Given your use of the word legal, if the government were to suddenly decide to no longer legally recognize marriage, would you consider you and your man no longer as husband and wife?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

maquiscat said:


> I didn't ask for the Marriage Act's definition, I asked for yours.


Marriage is a legal thing, that said I'm very comfortable with it being a choose your own adventure for people. Yet that still doesn't negate it being a legal thing.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

maquiscat said:


> if the government were to suddenly decide to no longer legally recognize marriage, would you consider you and your man no longer as husband and wife?


I can't speak for @frusdil, yet speaking for myself I would consider my marriage to be no longer a thing if that were the case. Given that for longer than I have been alive marriage is nothing more than a legal union.

Not that it matters to me as such, since I'm fine with being in an ongoing long term sexual relationship with my housemate sans being married.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Personal said:


> Marriage is a legal thing, that said I'm very comfortable with it being a choose your own adventure for people. Yet that still doesn't negate it being a legal thing.





Personal said:


> I can't speak for @frusdil, yet speaking for myself I would consider my marriage to be no longer a thing if that were the case. Given that for longer than I have been alive marriage is nothing more than a legal union.
> 
> Not that it matters to me as such, since I'm fine with being in an ongoing long term sexual relationship with my housemate sans being married.


You do realize that marriage as an institution has been around for longer than governments have bothered to make laws about it, right? Even the Catholic church did not make marriage under them a requirement until around the 14th century, yet alone governments requiring marriages to be registered with them for legal purposes. At one point it was as simple as a woman moving into a man's home and them declaring themselves married for it to be so.

Marriage as *a* legal thing is objectively true, just as marriage as a social thing and as a religious thing are also objectively true. It's the definition in those realms that makes it more or less subjective without limiting your field to one set of laws or one religion or one society. I do not deny that your definition of marriage is strictly legal, and probably the law of your country (most likely the US). I'm just pointing out that such has not always been the case.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

maquiscat said:


> You do realize that marriage as an institution has been around for longer than governments have bothered to make laws about it, right? Even the Catholic church did not make marriage under them a requirement until around the 14th century, yet alone governments requiring marriages to be registered with them for legal purposes. At one point it was as simple as a woman moving into a man's home and them declaring themselves married for it to be so.


Well the Mesopotamians had laws regarding it from circa 2350 BCE.

That said what is applicable to other eras is irrelevant to the reality in which I find myself today.

So given that, when I was 18, I was Single. Then when I was 19, I was married (legally). Then when I was 20, I was Separated (legally), then Divorced (legally) when I was 21. Then remained Divorced (legally), until I got Married (legally) again, while I was still 27. While at 49 I am still Married (legally).



> Marriage as *a* legal thing is objectively true, just as marriage as a social thing and as a religious thing are also objectively true. It's the definition in those realms that makes it more or less subjective without limiting your field to one set of laws or one religion or one society. I do not deny that your definition of marriage is strictly legal, and probably the law of your country (most likely the US). I'm just pointing out that such has not always been the case.


I concur on things not always being the case, yet I am not in other eras or societies.

Yet presently as a citizen of Australia, I am governed by it's laws. So if I weren't legally married, yet still sharing my sexual relationship with my wife in cohabitation, I would be in a (legal) De Facto relationship and would be lying if I claimed we were married instead.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

maquiscat said:


> Marriage is a committed relationship that last, or is intended to last for a long time.


yeah, I would say, it's a commitment as in: I'll stay with you, even if someone better turns up!


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Laurentium said:


> yeah, I would say, it's a commitment as in: I'll stay with you, even if someone better turns up!


How interesting that you ignored the other parts of my definition.


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