# Threw hell again....at least on my terms this time.



## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

I will have to make this short being I need to leave for work in a bit. 

Well, to start off, it has been a long time since I have been the forums here. A little less then a year and half ago my wife had an affair with my ex-best friend/ex-room mate (well currently ex). After about a 9-10 months of emotional hell (which every one here knows about) I was getting to the point were I was only thinking about things 2 to 3 times a week and not bringing it up in arguments. In fact we were discussing in a year buying a house. I guess I am saying we were on the track of at least being able to move on, (though as every one knows, not the same as before). 

Well one thing that grew out of the last affair was that we both knew we needed time away from each other once in a while. Which is normal, I mean like I needed my guys night out once every month or two, same with her and the girls. I was okay with it, being the main girl she goes out with tells me everything. 

Well this was going fine for a while until Friday night. To put it bluntly she made out with a guy at the bar. Well I find out from her friend that she "Thinks" she saw them do something but was not 100% sure. So I asked my wife, she told me nothing happened and she pushed him away and they left. So after much talking and myself figuring things out I choose to give her the benefit of the doubt though I was reluctant to. 

Well had the whole make-up sex and less then an hour later her friend sends her a super long text, and the only words I got out of it was "cheated, lying, done". She deleted right away and I questioned her on it. She said her friend was not going to hang out with her anymore because she could not handle my wife's crap (in a nut shell). Well after a few minutes of asking she first then said, it was a "kiss on the cheek", then myself saying bull, she broke down crying and said, "I made out with him". I keep cool, which was really odd of me, I think seeing the kids around helped with that. and Said I am leaving and we should figure out later what to do about the kids/stuff. The whole time I gathering my stuff she is crawling on her knees around the house screaming for me not to leave. I tell her, "you had your chance's' and now I am off, if you can not handle the kids I will take them with me, or call my mother and she can come get them".

After leaving I went to work, (I know odd) and had a little chat with my boss and her other assistant (very personal and friendly work environment). The whole time I was there she was sending me texts to please come back, that she has a "problem" and needs help, wants my help. 

After discussing my options at work. I realized I am kind of in trouble. Either I go back and more then likely go threw this again at some point, or I loose my kids. Minnesota is a SUPER MOMMY state. Though everything is my favor, No infidelity, not a lot of drinking, I work (she is a stay at home), I have great credit, plenty of family in the area to help me....I have smoked pot in the last 2 months. A judge hears that, she gets the kids and she will more then likely move 3 hours away (all her family is from the area she would move to). 

*a side note, my kids are my life. I work 12 hour days so I can be home to an apartment with happy kids. In fact right now I am typing this as one sites on my shoulders and playing with her toys on my head. 

So after 4 hours of just BS'ing in my car and at work. I came back home to see her grandmother at my place and her crying. I talked to her and said I would only return on very strict conditions because I feel like I am starting at month 3 all over again after the affair a year ago. 
1. no hugs/kissing
2. she sleeps on the couch
3. she starts therapy asap
4. she needs to write down all of her infidelity/times/dates/etc, and sign it with witness. (in case this ends up in divorce I have some ammo to keep the kids)
5. if we still end up getting a house it will be 100% in my name. 
6. no more drinking, (sad part she was not that big of drinker before)
7. *I can add more if I need to.


Some would say, "It was just a super drunk mistake" or "she just made out with him". But, after what I have been threw the last year....I really do not care. I guess I am just looking for input here. Any thoughts, or help full advice would be great. 

*Side note as well, all morning she has been thanking me for coming home even though she knows it was for the kids.

Well off to work, I shall be back on later. does anybody know if this site works well on a kindle fire?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Bigwayneo said:


> I will have to make this short being I need to leave for work in a bit.
> 
> Well, to start off, it has been a long time since I have been the forums here. A little less then a year and half ago my wife had an affair with my ex-best friend/ex-room mate (well currently ex). After about a 9-10 months of emotional hell (which every one here knows about) I was getting to the point were I was only thinking about things 2 to 3 times a week and not bringing it up in arguments. In fact we were discussing in a year buying a house. I guess I am saying we were on the track of at least being able to move on, (though as every one knows, not the same as before).
> 
> ...



Admittedly I do not know your specific story but as a BS myself I know THE story. Its admirable that you want to give her yet another chance. First of all these GNO must end. They are toxic to any relationship let alone one that has experienced infidelity. Also, you need to frame your boundaries differently. Don't say to her you can't do this or you can't do that. Tell her she is responsible for your heart. She must consider everything she does and whether it will hurt you. You aren't going to tell her no making out with another guy. You aren't going to tell her no sex with another guy. You are telling her that if she hurts you again...its over. Put the burden on her to safeguard your feelings. If she can't do that then you know she can't be a good wife.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Man you know she is going to keep doing it. You know there probably others you don't know about either. Sorry to see you back here on these terms man.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to keep emphasizing the old marriage is over and the new marriage is o life support/probation.

I'm shocked that you were here before and you still thought girls night out /boys night out was reasonable for married/ltr people.

I can tell you that in thirty years every couple (and there have been many) but one that I know that have gone the party without their partner has ended in infidelity and divorce.

No one can continually handle drinking with other people and not get their selves worked up. Not now not ever. I've even seen just married girls go down and I know that wasn't their intent.

Have you two studied "Five Love Languages", His Needs Her Needs"?

Have you studied "Married Man Sex Life"?

If not you are past due.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

You are her meal ticket. You know it. Tell her, to you, she is now just the hired help. If you get the house, make sure you have your own bedroom. Get the docs signed. She will try to use sex to bring you back under her control. Like the others said, can't believe you OKd GNOs for your cheating wife.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Like others I am surprise you agreed to a GNO , there is a reason why your married - you go put as a couple, have date nights, share the same circle of friends. I can't recall if she is working, if not add "get a job" to your list.

I suspect there is something missing in your marriage. For a start read the book "his needs her needs" by Harley. There are pointers therein that may help you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Add my vote - when your wife gets together with her friends, it should be for something marriage-friendly.

Guys generally go to bars to pick up women. Women generally are flattered and sometimes tempted by the attentions of men. Alcohol lowers the inhibitions of all involved to make what is normally completely unacceptable, temporarily acceptable.

Your wife sounds like she cannot control her drinking. Then, once drunk, she can't control her attraction to men hitting on her in the bar.

It's very beneficial for your wife to get together with her girlfriends. They can go out for Sunday brunch. They can meet in someone's house and have a book club. They can meet for coffee or lunch. They cannot go to bars at night and drink with guys there who are trying to hit on them and pick them up.

I hope you work on your marriage. Your wife sounds like she does love you but has a drinking problem. Not that she needs to get drunk every day, but that when she drinks, she gets drunk, she doesn't stop drinking when she should. She should avoid alcohol in the future or else only have a drink when you are with her.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

On a different take, It's always been my contention that the person you are when inebriated, is the person you have to constantly fight within to keep others from seeing the "real" you.
When a spouse cheats, they are doing it for reasons that have nothing to do with any other aspect of their relationship with their SO.
Until the OP can address whatever his wife feels the reason is, she will continue to be a potential "ex".


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Go to a lawyer and have him draft a post-nup agreement. Have her sign it. If she does this again its instant divorce and she gets NOTHING.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

DON'T promise her that you won't divorce her and instead inform her that the marriage is on probation until further notice. The reason for doing this is because you must make her face the consequence of divorce if she does not abide by the new set of rules you'll demand from her as non negotiable conditions for not divorcing her.

1. No more going to out at night by herself. From now on you go out as a couple or you don't go out at all. Bars full of people - especially men looking for sex with women (married or single) - are on the banned list of places for her to go alone or with other women.

2. Counseling for her issues that have caused her to seek outside male validation. She has to address and resolve whatever issues that have caused her to have a void inside her soul. YOU also need counseling because as much as you want to act tough, the fact is that you have been dealt a serious emotional/psychological wound and you are probably not well equipped to handle it in a constructively. Click on the "links" below my signature to access other links to great articles. They are no substitute for counseling but they can help the two of you to recover from this ordeal.

3. Total, complete honesty. Has she been with other men? Who are they? No holding out on or hiding the truth about her activities. She becomes and adherent of mutual transparency (you also) and accountability. No secret email accounts or passwords to them or other social media (i.e. facebook, twitter, etc). Without secrecy, affairs cannot exist.

Lastly, to protect you from hating yourself. Your wife may move heaven and earth to do everything required to become a different person worthy of your trust but if you cannot overcome your anger and bitterness, then you will be sabotaging marital reconciliation. You have to look at yourself in the mirror and say to yourself something along the lines of *If I choose to divorce, it will be under the best circumstances possible, right now it is not that time*. This will help you to temporarily neutralize the demons of anger and bitterness.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Get to a lawyer and draw up a tight post nuptual agreement one that the next time a guy looks at her and she like back she looses it all. 

Sorry to say it but even your wife's friend cares more about your marriage than your wife. 

Set her up with post nup and get ready to knock her down very very hard. 

She doesn't deserve to be married or have a fiamily. 

She knew what was on the line 

Btw send the friend flowers for tell you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> Add my vote - when your wife gets together with her friends, it should be for something marriage-friendly.
> 
> Guys generally go to bars to pick up women. Women generally are flattered and sometimes tempted by the attentions of men. Alcohol lowers the inhibitions of all involved to make what is normally completely unacceptable, temporarily acceptable.
> 
> ...


Just to underline this, bold this, and italicize this.

In our large community, I don't know ANY wives who go out drinking in bars without their spouses. Zero. Zero. Zero. If they do it, they must be sneaking around, because they know that the rest of us would think it was nothing short of weird. If I found out a friend did this, I'd think she was an alcoholic with the self-esteem of a gnat.

I've gone to dinner with other wives, lunch, brunch, etc. But our crazy drinking dance floor stuff ended the day we got married. Dancing and bars can be fun, but I get off on doing this with my husband--we get to pretend we are young again and he's picking me up cause he spotted me from across the room.

I know what she will say to you if you put the big kibosh on GNOs. She's going to whine that you're controlling. That is the modern way for women to use the liberation movement to guilt men into letting them run roughshod all over their marital vows. (WHY are guys around here so afraid of this label? The controlling abusive men aren't coming to TAM to try to save their marriages, I guess.)

This is a free country, and she can kiss and dance and sleep with as many men as she wants. She just needs to be divorced before engaging in that behavior.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Your wife clearly has no respect for you or your marriage whatsoever. Have you been tested for STD's? Do you feel proud and special that she is your wife? If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

*her friend sends her a super long text, and the only words I got out of it was "cheated, lying, done". She deleted right away *
Sounds like more than just making out with a guy in the bar. Probably went to his car in the parking lot.

*the main girl she goes out with tells me everything. 
I find out from her friend that she "Thinks" she saw them do something but was not 100% sure.*
I guess her friend doesn't tell you everything after all.
Can you ask the friend to send the text to you?

*I have smoked pot in the last 2 months.*
Given your situation, probably best to quit doing this.

*1. no hugs/kissing
2. she sleeps on the couch*
I don't see how this helps your situation right now. She has agreed to your conditions. What are you trying to accomplish by making her sleep on the cough and no hugs/kissing? If this is because it makes you feel better, fine, but if it's for some type of effect on your wife, I don't get it.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Send her for an STD test and then set the boundaries for both of you to follow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

I see zero reasons as to why you should even stay, aside from having to pay her child support and alimony and sharing your kids that's the only reasons you have to stay in the marriage.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Sorry brother, thats what you get when you carpet sweep. 

WERE IN THE HELL WAS THE IC FOR HER LAST YEAR WHEN WE ALL MENTIONED IT? 

WHY IN THE HELL TO YOU AGREE TO GNO WHEN YOUR MARRIAGE WAS SO FRAGILE?

DAMB IT MAN !!!!!!!!!!!

Ok I'm settling down, sorry for yelling at you.....Please go back and look at all the great advice you got last time you were here, an USE IT.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

And her friends are even bailing and distancing themselves from her. That alone should tell you how much she really wants to be married to you.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

She's showing you for the second time that the chances for her cheating on your are getting higher. 
These are all signs that you should divorce her. 

She's such an irresponsible wife!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

One more thing, no more GNO until she's spend a year in IC for all her issues.

That is if you keep her around, from the sound of things thats were your heading.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

I generally think reconciliation is best when kids are involved, but that doesn't include extreme cases and serial cheating.

I looked at your old posts, and *this is the third time your wife has cheated on you in less than three years*, the first being an emotional affair with cybersex and videosex, the second being a physical/emotional affair with your best friend who also lived in the same house as you, your wife and kids, while you were at work and your kids were asleep in another room. In that incident, your wife claimed she was drunk but later on you said you found out she carried on a lot of the affair when she was not drunk. She lied to you every time.

In baseball, three strikes and you're out. How many strikes are you going to give her?


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

First off, thanks for all the responses. Wow, this place seems to (I guess in a bad way) take off, as far as members go. I will try to answer/get to as many points, and questions for my issue as I can. 

1- Post pre-nup I was under the understanding that some states pretty much make these things useless. Example, Minnesota is a no fault state, would a pre-nup even work?

2- I thought GNO would be fine being the affair had nothing to do with going out to the bars and the friend she goes with tells me EVERYTHING. But I do understand now why ever one on here is asking WTH I was thinking. From this point forward she will not be going to bars, (that is if I decide to stay with her). The main reason I was okay with her going out is because I hate bars/clubs. Hate them to the sun and back, so I figured being I have a "spy" with her I would not worry. and for about 7-9 months this worked out, until the one night she drank about 30 dollars more worth then she does on average.

3- I know she is not doing anyone else. After the affair a year and half ago, I have been checking up on her like a hawk. I check our phone records, I have searched the house, I have said I had to work certain hours when really I was watching our place. I have double checked the cookies and history. I also back up certain files and also use Splash-top to randomly (while at work or out and about) to see what she is doing.

4- We have been threw therapy, both single and marriage. I have read many books, and even knew the GNO might not have been the best one to ignore, but as I said, figuring I had a spy I was not worried. Our marriage up until Saturday (the day I found out.) was doing amazing. Rebuilding from the affair was going great until this. 

She will be calling therapy tomorrow. We just got done talking for an hour (well she was talking) about what happened that night. In other words, she got to drunk, kissed said guy, then after came home. (I confirmed this with said mutual friend). The only reason said friend did not stop it, or at the very least attempt to avert it is because she thought said guy was there for her, and she had a phone call (work) and had to walk away for 5 minutes.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Bigwayneo said:


> The only reason said friend did not stop it, or at the very least attempt to avert it is because she thought said guy was there for her, and she had a phone call (work) and had to walk away for 5 minutes.


So let me get this straight... your wife tried to steal her friend's date? 

Do you realise how insane that is? 

If the friend had not been there to stop her, your wife would have ended up in his car with her skirt up.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

sorry. posted in the wrong thread


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

Will_Kane said:


> I generally think reconciliation is best when kids are involved, but that doesn't include extreme cases and serial cheating.
> 
> I looked at your old posts, and *this is the third time your wife has cheated on you in less than three years*, the first being an emotional affair with cybersex and videosex, the second being a physical/emotional affair with your best friend who also lived in the same house as you, your wife and kids, while you were at work and your kids were asleep in another room. In that incident, your wife claimed she was drunk but later on you said you found out she carried on a lot of the affair when she was not drunk. She lied to you every time.
> 
> In baseball, three strikes and you're out. How many strikes are you going to give her?


Side note-she drank every time, but I found she was not drunk. ( i know this really says nothing)
I agree with you.....but I am against a wall. The more I look up Minnesota laws, the more I can tell I will 100% loose. The only thing I can really do is make it so she can not move out of state. I am going to look up this post pre-nup thing, if it can be done I think that will be the way to go. 

As much as I know and understand I need to think about myself, my kids come first....period. It sounds odd, but I can not think of a day were I Do not wake up to my kids the house. Hell the last 2 day trip she took to visit her mother (I doubled check, she was with her mother) had me feeling odd not walking up to the pitter patter of little feet running around. 

I am currently considering us serperated until I figure things out.


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> So let me get this straight... your wife tried to steal her friend's date?
> 
> Do you realise how insane that is?
> 
> If the friend had not been there to stop her, your wife would have ended up in his car with her skirt up.


no, not a date. I guess I should have elobrated a little more on that. The friend thought, (as well as my wife I guess) that he was into said friend. According to said friend, (I trust her 100%) my wife stopped the kissing walked up to her while on the phone and said we need to go.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I


> agree with you.....but I am against a wall. The more I look up Minnesota laws, the more I can tell I will 100% loose



You are not a lawyer. You do not know for sure. 

I think you are making assumptions about your legal rights. Why not have a consult with an attorney or two and find out what you can really look forward to in court. It may not be as bad as you think, and her adultery may work in you favor if you are allowed to allege it in the divorce. Quit guessing and get some answers.


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

the guy said:


> Sorry brother, thats what you get when you carpet sweep.
> 
> WERE IN THE HELL WAS THE IC FOR HER LAST YEAR WHEN WE ALL MENTIONED IT?
> 
> ...


HAHA thanks guy. I honestly wondering when I would see you on here.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Bigwayneo said:


> no, not a date. I guess I should have elobrated a little more on that. The friend thought, (as well as my wife I guess) that he was into said friend. According to said friend, (I trust her 100%) my wife stopped the kissing walked up to her while on the phone and said we need to go.


Wow. So she does have a bit of a conscience. Still, she was relying on her friend to get her out of the situation. If the friend had not been present, she would have kept kissing him and then...


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

You want to put your kids #1.

This is the thing about kids.

You clearly love them to pieces.

Do you want them to choose life partners that do this very same thing to them?

You think you're hurting now, how about years down the road you have to listen to them sob their hearts out because they chose someone who does this very same thing.

If you truly love your kids, set a good example.

The #1 thing you can do for them is show them that NO ONE is allowed to disrespect them. That love and marriage are ALL about respect.

This is precisely how children end up in relationships with emotional abusers--they learn it first at home.

-----------------------

On a separate note--I think that with serial cheating wives, there are likely two types (broad sweeping generalization here). There's the kind that is full of themselves--a narcisst who thinks they're entitled to marriage AND boyfriends. Then there's the one with super low self-esteem, in the toilet, who constantly needs re-affirmation and validation from members of the opposite sex. The latter kind sounds like your wife. The trouble likely is, she can never get enough validation because it comes from sheer NUMBERS of men that react to her this way. ONE man would never do. She needs individual counseling to understand why she engages in this self-destructive behavior.


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> I
> 
> 
> You are not a lawyer. You do not know for sure.
> ...


I plan on doing that during the week, but the more I look it up via online, the more it seems adultery really has zero to do with it unless I can prove it effected the kids somehow. and besides the adultery, she is a great mom....


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

iheartlife said:


> You want to put your kids #1.
> 
> This is the thing about kids.
> 
> ...



As guy said, I should have sent her to more IC. IF the later is true, (even if it generalizing) I might be in trouble for sure then. As I work a ton of overtime at my main job, and 1 day a week at my hobby job.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Bigwayneo said:


> I plan on doing that during the week, but the more I look it up via online, the more it seems adultery really has zero to do with it unless I can prove it effected the kids somehow. and besides the adultery, she is a great mom



No... great moms don't cheat on their husbands and put their marriages and homelife in jeopardy


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

This is interesting with regard to the make out event.

Can your friend give you a better idea with regard to the interaction between the OM and your WW? was ther flirting?

I'm curious if this was a small asualt on your wife by the OM "taking a kiss" and your drunk wife getting used?

I guess my point doesnt really matter but it should be brought up in her next IC meeting.

besides you talking to a lawyer, the IC is the single most important thing your wife most do.

I'm also curious as to why your WW made the choice to " go over baord" on the drinking.....again another question that needs to be addressed at IC.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Bigwayneo said:


> 1- Post pre-nup I was under the understanding that some states pretty much make these things useless. Example, Minnesota is a no fault state, would a pre-nup even work?
> .


50 states are no-fault but you still can draft a postnup. I think both parties need to be represented by a seperate legal counselor and it needs to be notarized. That's about it. As for the content, you need to get advice from an attorney in your state/district to determine what can be included and what can not.

I suggest you act fast while she is still in "sad" mood, the longer you wait the less likely she'll sign it.


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

the guy said:


> This is interesting with regard to the make out event.
> 
> Can your friend give you a better idea with regard to the interaction between the OM and your WW? was ther flirting?
> 
> ...


From what I understand (gathered from the friend) the flirting was going towards both of them. and None back at the guy. She (the friend) knew the guy from some classes she is taking at the local college. My wife claims, she didn't realize what was happening until it was happening. (which if true, is still a load, all things considered.) As far as getting tanked, I have no idea. Probably because it was the first time in a while she could go out, and not worry about the kids in the morning either. (I had morning plans with the kids).

But you are right, I am going to make sure these things come up during her IC. I think she is going to use our MC so that way she does not have to start fresh....but I dont know.


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

keko said:


> 50 states are no-fault but you still can draft a postnup. I think both parties need to be represented by a seperate legal counselor and it needs to be notarized. That's about it. As for the content, you need to get advice from an attorney in your state/district to determine what can be included and what can not.
> 
> I suggest you act fast while she is still in "sad" mood, the longer you wait the less likely she'll sign it.


I agree. I hope child custody can be drafted into it in MN. I am not kidding when I say she can have everything else, money, car, the TV and Video games  as long as I could have the kids. I will make calls before work tomorrow and find out.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Bigwayneo said:


> I agree. I hope child custody can be drafted into it in MN. I am not kidding when I say she can have everything else, money, car, the TV and Video games  as long as I could have the kids. I will make calls before work tomorrow and find out.


Child custody very likely wont be valid in a postnup, but any other item can be. House, cars, furniture, etc.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Will_Kane said:


> I generally think reconciliation is best when kids are involved, but that doesn't include extreme cases and serial cheating.
> 
> I looked at your old posts, and *this is the third time your wife has cheated on you in less than three years*, the first being an emotional affair with cybersex and videosex, the second being a physical/emotional affair with your best friend who also lived in the same house as you, your wife and kids, while you were at work and your kids were asleep in another room. In that incident, your wife claimed she was drunk but later on you said you found out she carried on a lot of the affair when she was not drunk. She lied to you every time.
> 
> In baseball, three strikes and you're out. How many strikes are you going to give her?


Bigwayneo, Will_Kane's research is quite illuminating. Your wife is a serial cheater. You are a serial let-your-wife-cheat kind of husband.

While most people object strongly to infidelity, it seems like its more of a nuisance to you than a dealbreaker.

"Oh, she went to a bar and did whatever with some guy. Well, that really pisses me off. I think I'll threaten to divorce her ass, then cave and work on patching things up."

That sound about right?

Look. Your wife has no self control. A new guy pays attention to her and its off to the races.

But let's talk about YOU.

The more interesting aspect to this, uh, situation, is where YOU have such poor boundary control that you are letting your wife, who has a solid proven track record of infidelity, go on GNOs.

If you were someone I was friends with in real life, I'd tell you that you were being really stupid, and ask what exactly did you expect to happen.

But I don't know you other than by your posts, so I can't opine on your IQ. I can still ask you what exactly you expected to happen, though.

Person, the other times you went "threw" hell were on YOUR TERMS TOO. Each time, you could choose to take it or choose to leave it. Each time, you have elected to take it. 

So now its happened again, and here you are again. If you truly find this behavior intolerable, you might want to consider making a choice that doesn't involve staying with this damaged person who has sex with other men.

Your life, your choice.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You are way too young to deal with this drama for the rest of your life.

Edit: Looked through your older threads. Did she confess to having sex with your ex-bf ?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

From the souund of it it looks like your WW was easy picken instead of the friend.

Be that as it may, I personal hope she gets the help she needs and helps you heal. 

If your happy with the MC then use it for her IC.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

the guy said:


> From the souund of it it looks like your WW was easy picken instead of the friend.
> 
> Be that as it may, I personal hope she gets the help she needs and helps you heal.
> 
> If your happy with the MC then use it for her IC.


Great idea; or get a solid referral from that MC.


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

well, as much as I agree, and hate to admit it. most of you are right. She is a serial cheater, I'm the moron who has just taken it. But even admitting to that does not solve my kid problem. The more Info I look up, the more I doubt I have any standings other then just making sure she does not take them out of state, maybe city if I am lucky. I might just have to hope that IC helps.

I know how stupid it sounds, but I am willing to put up with this constant crapfest if it means living with my kids. Which probably means, I should probably not post any more on this site being as the point is healing threw it, and not dealing threw it....


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

It is wonderful that you love your children so much but, you have at least one daughter correct? What do you think she will learn about marriage if you stay with your wife and your wife cheats on you again? It is setting a bad precedent for her. She will learn that she can treat a man like crap and he should put up with it.

Also, if your wife does continue to cheat on you, have you thought of the effect it will have on your mental status? How on Earth are you going to be able to be a healthy parent?


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

If that is your position, that you plan to tough it out for the kids, don't let on to your wife. She may take advantage if she knows you won't go no matter what.

She does love you but she is damaged. She seems to need the attention of other men. At this point in their marriages, most wives are devoted to their husbands, while yours has cheated three times already. A small positive is that she's come back to you immediately when caught each time.

Try your best. Encourage her to get counseling. Continue monitoring her communications. No more girls nights out. Watch her interactions with all other men very closely.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Bigwayneo said:


> well, as much as I agree, and hate to admit it. most of you are right. She is a serial cheater, I'm the moron who has just taken it. But even admitting to that does not solve my kid problem. The more Info I look up, the more I doubt I have any standings other then just making sure she does not take them out of state, maybe city if I am lucky. I might just have to hope that IC helps.
> 
> I know how stupid it sounds, but I am willing to put up with this constant crapfest if it means living with my kids. Which probably means, I should probably not post any more on this site being as the point is healing threw it, and not dealing threw it....


I am missing something on the kid front. I don't understand why you think it's healthy for them to be around a person who is so damaged. Can you elaborate on precisely what you think would happen if you left her? Spell it out, I'm dense I guess.


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

iheartlife said:


> I am missing something on the kid front. I don't understand why you think it's healthy for them to be around a person who is so damaged. Can you elaborate on precisely what you think would happen if you left her? Spell it out, I'm dense I guess.


Minnesota is a crazy mom state. If you a man and have kids, you do not have a snowballs chance most of the time. Sure you might find an example here and there, hell I have ONE friend who was lucky and got his child back. But most of the time, the mother gets the children period. 

Saying that. My wife has nothing up here (northern MN) but one grandparent. No friends, no other family, nada. But has TONS of family in both southern MN and South Dakota. If she gets the kids she will most likely move back to her family area. I make okay money, but I can not afford both Child support, trips to see the kids every weekend, and live an okay life. Like I said before, if I am super lucky, (which is never my case) if we did split, I might be able to make her keep the kids in the city.....but I doubt it. I just got off the phone with a few friends who have either gone threw this, or had family gone threw it, and they all got screwed.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Either way make sure to have her sign a postnup so at least you wont get stuck with alimony and she wont be gifted with assets.

Did you think about having her treated for alcohol abuse? Not that she is suffering but you might be able to make a case out of her not being fit to be a mother, etc. in the future if you decide on D.


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

keko said:


> Either way make sure to have her sign a postnup so at least you wont get stuck with alimony and she wont be gifted with assets.
> 
> Did you think about having her treated for alcohol abuse? Not that she is suffering but you might be able to make a case out of her not being fit to be a mother, etc. in the future if you decide on D.


No, but good idea!


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## 67flh (Sep 26, 2011)

no matter what you do, i would seriously start stashing,moving money...s l o w l y, so not to drawl attention.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

See a real lawyer with experience on the post nip and what is and isn't possible before you give up on the idea. 

You should explain to her that her kissing the guy got made far far worse when she lied to you. If she had come straight home and explained that she got far drinker than normal and this guy kissed her etc. and she stopped it and left and told you about it, you would be angry but you would be dealing with a different problem than what you are now facing. 

She also messed up by letting a guy flirt with her. But that is what goes on in places like that. So the first bad choice she made was choosing that kind of place to go to. That is for sIngles to dressup and hookup. Not for two friends to meet and chat. 

Btw how long was she kissing the guy? 10sec or 10min?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> See a real lawyer with experience on the post nip and what is and isn't possible before you give up on the idea.
> 
> You should explain to her that her kissing the guy got made far far worse when she lied to you. If she had come straight home and explained that she got far drinker than normal and this guy kissed her etc. and she stopped it and left and told you about it, you would be angry but you would be dealing with a different problem than what you are now facing.
> 
> ...


I didn't ask. From what I gathered it could not have been long, considering her friend had to cut her phone call short.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Bigwayneo~

Neither one of us are lawyers, so it is somewhat silly for us to discuss the laws in your state because the fact is, we are not trained. Now we can READ the laws...and we can talk to people who tell us what happened to them, but we just do not work in the current MN legal system and know the day-in and day-out workings. So I suggest that you look at these two sites: Divorce for Dads and Basics on Child Custody and then before you make ANY decisions, go to a family lawyer. I will say that one very common misconception is that folks call it "custody" but in real life there are two parts: there's *LEGAL* custody and there's *PHYSICAL* custody. Legal custody means "who has the rights to make parental decisions for these children?" and physical custody means "which parent do these kids reside with and when?" Legal custody is almost always 50/50 naming each parent (so split down the middle) but physical custody can effect child support (like if the kids live with mom 90% of the time and dad 10% of the time, take their combined salaries, divide by 2 times 90% and that's the child support mom gets) so most moms will fight tooth and nail to have more physical custody so they get more child support. HOWEVER, that's the one where 13 factors are supposed to be taken into consideration. Also another very common misconception is that the only option is for one of the two parents to have sole custody! *Nope!!!!* Even in the state of Minnesota, some arrangement of joint custody is preferred unless one parent can prove that the other is utterly unfit to be a parent. 

Soooooo...even based on the 'mommy bias' of your state, I would say it would be utterly reasonable for you to ask your wife to move out (since this is now her third affair and she clearly does not value the family or marriage), that you keep the kids and the marital house as they are right now since you and the kids have been faithful and why should you lose everything, and that in divorce filings you file for JOINT LEGAL custody and JOINT PHYSICAL custody with her having the kids half the time as soon as she is set up with a place for them to be. Now *SHE* may not be too pleased with that arrangement, since she would no longer have her meal-ticket while she goes out and gives her stuff to other men, and *SHE* would have to care for herself and her children ON HER OWN...and yet any judge (even the mommy-biased ones) would see that as a fair, and even request on your part!

So #1--before you make any decisions, don't tell yourself "dads never get custody in Minnesota" and then make life decisions based on that. They DO get custody!!! They probably just very rarely get sole legal and sole physical custody, because in the eyes of "the state" every parent has some kind of rights (even criminals and imprisoned parents!). So get informed FIRST...and then make decisions. 

#2--you can't change her. She is a woman who would be rebuilding a marriage and throw that all away within 5 minutes when someone who was supposedly her friend walked away. That is not someone of high moral character, and until she can demonstrate growth in her morality--by herself, without you nagging her and reminding her and checking up on her--she will remain a person of low moral character. SHE has to do it herself. So now your job is to not look at her, but rather to look at yourself and ask yourself, "What is is about me that I'm willing to accept the crumbs of love that are thrown at me as leftovers rather than realizing I'm worth a whole FEAST?"

In other words, she needs tons of counseling--that's true--but I see that a little may not be a bad idea for yourself. I'm not saying you're "all that" but rather that it might be a smart idea to increase your own self-respect.


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

Affaircare said:


> Bigwayneo~
> 
> Neither one of us are lawyers, so it is somewhat silly for us to discuss the laws in your state because the fact is, we are not trained. Now we can READ the laws...and we can talk to people who tell us what happened to them, but we just do not work in the current MN legal system and know the day-in and day-out workings. So I suggest that you look at these two sites: Divorce for Dads and Basics on Child Custody and then before you make ANY decisions, go to a family lawyer. I will say that one very common misconception is that folks call it "custody" but in real life there are two parts: there's *LEGAL* custody and there's *PHYSICAL* custody. Legal custody means "who has the rights to make parental decisions for these children?" and physical custody means "which parent do these kids reside with and when?" Legal custody is almost always 50/50 naming each parent (so split down the middle) but physical custody can effect child support (like if the kids live with mom 90% of the time and dad 10% of the time, take their combined salaries, divide by 2 times 90% and that's the child support mom gets) so most moms will fight tooth and nail to have more physical custody so they get more child support. HOWEVER, that's the one where 13 factors are supposed to be taken into consideration. Also another very common misconception is that the only option is for one of the two parents to have sole custody! *Nope!!!!* Even in the state of Minnesota, some arrangement of joint custody is preferred unless one parent can prove that the other is utterly unfit to be a parent.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the info AC. Though I did look up most of this info already. I know we could split the Physical custody up. But like I said my worry is that she might, well not might, but WILL move away. I just got done E-mailing a family lawyer and seeing when I could come in for some questions and what my best options might be. 

As I said I don't have a lot of money, so this whole thing will be hard regardless. Hopefully if I need there services, (which either way I decide to go I will need) hopefully I can pay for in jokes?:rofl:


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Wayne, take her to the polygraph before you decide anything,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Wayne, take her to the polygraph before you decide anything,
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are those not super expensive?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Bigwayneo,

You may as well propose to her an "open marriage" if you continue being married to her. Her affairs are an attempt to replace you and if tomorrow she meets a man who can give her a better lifestyle, she'll drop you like a baby's soiled diaper. Better wake up and smell the coffee my friend.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Bigwayneo said:


> Are those not super expensive?


Ive seen anywhere from 250 to 500 and you usually only get a handful of questions, plus I think they arent as reliable as most people think. Her reaction to the polygraph may yield more results than the actual test


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

After talking briefly with a Family lawyer...(paraphrasing) I was pretty much right. It would start out as 50/50 but once she wants to move away there would be a hearing about who should get the kids and more then likely she would win, with myself getting either weekends and summers or some other form like that. Which to me is not an option. So....back to square one.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

morituri said:


> Bigwayneo,
> 
> You may as well propose to her an "open marriage" if you continue being married to her. Her affairs are an attempt to replace you and if tomorrow she meets a man who can give her a better lifestyle, she'll drop you like a baby's soiled diaper. Better wake up and smell the coffee my friend.


With the kind of luck some guys have in relationships, she'd probably end up cheating on the new guy and then he would be back to square one.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Sooner or later she'll realize that you are staying married to her only because of fear losing the kids in a divorce and she will start another affair but this time she will flaunt it in your face. What then BW?


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

hookares said:


> With the kind of luck some guys have in relationships, she'd probably end up cheating on the new guy and then he would be back to square one.


I shouldn't have, but this made me laugh a little bit.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Spend the money on the poly. If you keep her at least you know what you've agreed to keep and if you D you'll know fully why.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

morituri said:


> Sooner or later she'll realize that you are staying married to her only because of fear losing the kids in a divorce and she will start another affair but this time she will flaunt it in your face. What then BW?


Well I guess my plan, (and she fully knows this as well already) is to get a post-pre-nup signed. This way at least when she (not if) messes up again, I will have everything and have some better footing to attempt to keep the kids. 

To Shaggy, I think I will. Even if its only 5 questions it will be enough for me to at least get the big stains out.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

A post-nupt won't "take her to the cleaners". Better talk to your divorce attorney again about what it can and can't do. From my understanding, a post-nupt can't be used to circumvent custody or child support laws.

In the meantime, start forcing her to go look for a job. If she finds one, then she may be able to stay in the area if you get divorced. At the very least it would mitigate any financial impact post-divorce.


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

morituri said:


> A post-nupt won't "take her to the cleaners". Better talk to your divorce attorney again about what it can and can't do. From my understanding, a post-nupt can't be used to circumvent custody or child support laws.
> 
> In the meantime, start forcing her to go look for a job. If she finds one, then she may be able to stay in the area if you get divorced. At the very least it would mitigate any financial impact post-divorce.


I know it can't decide custody, but at the very least put one of use, (forbid I make a mistake after) on more solid footing then the one who cheated. AT least that is the way I am thinking. I did not bring up the pre-nup as being our time was getting cut short.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You work a lot of overtime and have "hobby" job on the side. You are spending way to much time away from your home/family.

I expect your wife is trully lonely.


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

chapparal said:


> You work a lot of overtime and have "hobby" job on the side. You are spending way to much time away from your home/family.
> 
> I expect your wife is trully lonely.


No more lonely then my faithful mother was and my dad was away from home 2x to 3x more then I ever am in a giving week.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Bigwayneo said:


> No more lonely then my faithful mother was and my dad was away from home 2x to 3x more then I ever am in a giving week.


What is your point? Distance makes the heart grow fonder? Evidently not. How much time do you spend alone with your wife per week?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

chapparal said:


> What is your point? Distance makes the heart grow fonder? Evidently not. How much time do you spend alone with your wife per week?


These are good points. A lot of people in currently healthy relationships don't spend enough quality time together. Assuming you truly want to make things better, I would think you would both need to up that quality time. Reconciliation and fixing the issues aren't just on her.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed (Dec 9, 2011)

chapparal said:


> What is your point? Distance makes the heart grow fonder? Evidently not. How much time do you spend alone with your wife per week?


Distance is not an excuse for making out with some dude at a bar.

If she is so lonely, why did she choose to go out to a bar instead of staying at home with him for the night?


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

Speed said:


> Distance is not an excuse for making out with some dude at a bar.
> 
> If she is so lonely, why did she choose to go out to a bar instead of staying at home with him for the night?


ty. hammer nail.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Speed said:


> Distance is not an excuse for making out with some dude at a bar.
> 
> If she is so lonely, why did she choose to go out to a bar instead of staying at home with him for the night?


Whoa, if you think I'm making excuses for her you are completely wrong. That doesn't mean OP is spending the appropriate time with his wife/family. Two completely different issues. He did not answer how much time he spends with his wife either. All he said was his father was away from his family 2 or 3 times as much as him. A lot of overtime, plus a hobby job times 2 or 3 is how much. Dad doesn't sound like he was ever around.

Actually OP seems to be dodgeing the issue.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Whoa, if you think I'm making excuses for her you are completely wrong. That doesn't mean OP is spending the appropriate time with his wife/family. Two completely different issues. He did not answer how much time he spends with his wife either. All he said was his father was away from his family 2 or 3 times as much as him. A lot of overtime, plus a hobby job times 2 or 3 is how much. Dad doesn't sound like he was ever around.
> 
> Actually OP seems to be dodgeing the issue.


OP, you should be spending 12-15 hours of dedicated attention per week with your wife. That does not mean sitting together and watching Survivor reruns. It means actually time where you are focused completely on her and she is focused completely on you. If you are unable to devote that much time to your marriage you will have problems.


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