# My Bed Started Walking



## jetpilot37

I fly for an airline and am gone three or four days at a time and home three or four days at a time. I've had suspicions For quite some time that my wife was screwing around, nothing concrete, she's very good at covering her tracks. A few years ago I suspected a sexual affair with an older male coworker. She was deleting tons of text from him, started kissing me differently during sex, when we had it, and just acted different. She has a history of "sexting" men when she was younger that I discovered was going on before we wed 7 years ago. I also discovered just after getting married that she's been hiding a cocaine problem from me. She did go to treatment and was clean for several years, but I also suspect she uses prescription speed now periodically. This started around the time the suspected affair was going on with the male coworker. Her MO revolves around social media. I've noticed when I'm gone she is up late on FB Messenger, but when I'm home she's not on there as much. There just never has been any profound "this is it" discovery where I know for sure. I do need to get this off my chest and see if what I'm thinking regarding the following situation makes any logical sense? About eight months ago, I came home from a three day trip was doing some vacuuming in our bedroom. I noticed that our mahogany sleigh bed had moved six or 7 inches off of the wall. I asked my wife about this yet she denied knowing the cause. In fact, it's sort of became a running joke between us that our house was haunted or something. We have a mostly sexless marriage, and I won't go into the details with all that but only bring it up to say we rarely have sex. As soon as I got serious about marrying her, she started pushing me away. Two nights ago we had a long talk about our relationship-really breaking through some territory that needed to be talked about and we both felt better about things. One thing led to another And we had very passionate, very "enthusiastic" kind of sex. Like we did when we first met ten years ago. We both agreed we haven't had sex like this in many years. Later that evening, it dawned on me to see if this action caused our bed to move. For the last eight months I have been racking my brain trying to figure out what could cause this other than her having sex with someone while I was away. Went to the bedroom and sure enough the bed had moved yet another 6 inches off of the wall. In 8 months time the only activity that has caused the bed to memic what it had done previously was our sex that night. For the life of me or should I say for the life of my marriage, I can't think of another cause to make that bed move like that. Any ideas? Am I thinking about this too much? Is this a smoking gun that one would feel comfortable throwing the towel in on? I know everyone on here sees lots of these post, and I just want to say thank you in advance for any light one could shed on a very difficult time in my life. 


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## Andy1001

If it looks like a duck.
Quacks like a duck.
Walks like a duck.
It's probably a duck.
Wise up.


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## EunuchMonk

Purchase:
Voice Activated Recorder
Maybe Hidden Camera (some come in clock designs)

Time for you to turn to jetpilot007, if you get my meaning.

Check cellphone if you can for texts. Or check phone bill to see who is being called. Place keyloggers on the computer if that's where she accesses Facebook from. Full spy mode!


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## 225985

Maybe you should go into the details why your marriage is sexless. It's relevant.


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## TX-SC

A VAR would tell you what you need to know. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## arbitrator

*Sounds like my RSXW has being paying your house a visit!*


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## RideofmyLife

Don't confront until you have evidence though, otherwise she'll take it underground.


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## SunCMars

jetpilot37 said:


> Went to the bedroom and sure enough the bed had moved yet another 6 inches off of the wall. In 8 months time the only activity that has caused the bed to mimic what it had done previously was our sex that night.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


God, I love your title !!!!

Of all the hotels that I have stayed in, and all the bed creaking and banging noises that my sensitive ears have picked up "there", this has to be the cause! Good eye, good deduction!

Someone might have moved it to flip a mattress or dust under the bed, or paint the bedroom. But, she helped not, your prurient imagination.

I think you spoke too soon. The bed thumping will be shifted to another soft horizontal plane. She now knows...you are curious George. She will be cagey, from henceforth, in time.

You need to place a camera outside both doors of your house. The kind of animal/hunting "trail' cameras that Cabella's sells. They are motion sensitive and take a series of pictures.

You need to find out what "Ghost of Christmas past" visits your wife in your absence.

I suspect the sex that she denies you is being offered to a short tailed, hairless POSOM from a dark woods. He has entered her furry burrow and taken her by night and by storm. She invited him in. 

This often is the price and the meager ration of Celibacy. Such that, if a man or a women be denied intimacy by their betrothed, they will eventually seek it elsewhere.

Lack of intimacy... is a vacuum. A vacuum seeking warm flesh and respite from ambient and willing, peripheral bounders and carpet baggers. 
.........................................................................................................................................................................................................................
This is speculation. You need to prove your case. Check all her communication devices, her phone records. Put a VAR in her car. Check for messaging apps on her computer. Use "Locate Phone App" if she is using an Apple IPHONE. You can see where she is at all times if you set her phone up and install her on ICloud. 
.........................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Tell us about the lack of sex in your marriage. Why is this?
.........................................................................................................................................................................................................................


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## SunCMars

Andy1001 said:


> If it looks like a duck.
> Quacks like a duck.
> Walks like a duck.
> It's probably a duck.
> Wise up.


Yes, but you need to replace the Ducks "D" with and "F". 

Sorry, Jetpilot, but, where there is a far-off and lonesome and solitary "Quack" heard in the Wilderness..... there is a crack that needs filled. A Co-Pilot needing a break...and a well placed warm beak.


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## straightshooter

Jet Pilot,

If you are smart enough to fly a plane full of passengers, you are too smart to not know that a bed does not move on its own. Now add that to you stating that you and wife rarely have sex, and someone with half your IQ would know either your wife does not like sex or she is getting it elsewhere with you travelliung so much.

Now add in the FB peculiarities ,and my guess is your reason for coming here is 100% spot on.

Take the advice. Buy a good VAR and put it in her car, or buy two and put one where your computer is or where she spends most of her time at home and you will get your answers quickly. And get your cell records if you have a family plan.

With her history with co workers, I would start there in looking for OM.

Do not confront her yet.


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## Tatsuhiko

^^ What straightshooter said. Put a VAR in the bedroom too next time you're out of town for a night.


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## TX-SC

Is it possible that she is a particularly violent masturbator?  

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## GusPolinski

Any kids?


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## Spicy

OP, you already know the answer sweetheart. 
You have gotten some good suggestions, and they will most likely get you the concrete answers you are looking for. My guess is a PI for one of the partial weeks you are gone would give you what you need.

I would not recommend banging that, since I'm convinced your not the only visitor to that well. Be careful.
@SunCMars...the FIRST thing that popped into my mind when I saw the thread title was you! I kid you not!


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## SunCMars

Well! 

I have never been more insulted!

Before I go off on a long winded tangent, explain to our audience and OP why you thought this.

Or, just PM me [with your reply].

SCM

P.S. You are more correct than you think.........................only it's 65 years after the fact.

ESP....is real.


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## VladDracul

blueinbr said:


> Maybe you should go into the details why your marriage is sexless. It's relevant.


I don't think his marriage is sexless. He's just not that involved.


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## Spicy

OMG my friend, that came out all wrong, or only made sense in my head! That's not remotely what I meant! So sorry!

The unique title! I thought, "Oh that's a clever title, sounds like something SCM would come up with." Then I get down and there's a post from you and your opening line is that you love the title. :x

I love reading all your posts. So intriguing. I had a friend that you remind me of that has passed away, and he was so awesome with words. I loved to listen to him talk. No insult given, in fact, I can't recall ever disagreeing with you!



SunCMars said:


> Well!
> 
> I have never been more insulted!
> 
> Before I go off on a long winded tangent, explain to our audience and OP why you thought this.
> 
> Or, just PM me [with your reply].
> 
> SCM
> 
> P.S. You are more correct than you think.........................only it's 65 years after the fact.
> 
> ESP....is real.


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## Thor

jetpilot, welcome aboard! I'm an airline captain fwiw. I've heard more stories of cheating pilot's wives than I care to think about. It is an epidemic.

First thing, stfu about any suspicions with your wife. And try to just stfu about everything until you've thought about it for a few moments at least. Let me tell you a story...

Years ago I suspected my wife (now ex-wife) was cheating. Kids were teens, I wasn't ready to nuke the marriage, and besides I hadn't been to TAM and didn't know about Weightlifter's thread on gathering intel. Lots of smoking guns, blood all over, but no dead body. So, I was not ready to file for divorce. Then, the trail went cold. I approached her about MC and tried talking with her about fixing the marriage. It appeared the affair was finished, if there'd been one.

So there we were, waiting for a flight for the big family vacation, killing time looking at my old, weak, smart phone. And I discovered a hidden mail folder. She had the same make/model phone, too. And I spontaneously blurted out what I'd discovered. Hundreds and hundreds of old emails going back several years. As the words were halfway out of my mouth I tried but failed to think of a way to change the sentence to keep from telling her this, so that I could later look at the emails she'd cleansed from her computer. Well, she suddenly glued her phone inside her pocket until late night after I'd gone to sleep, and she manually erased about 700 old emails. There was no bulk delete function. She spent several hours deleting them out while I slept.

I lost any chance of accessing her old emails by blurting something out without thinking. So be careful in what you say for the next few weeks while you investigate.

Consider installing a video camera built into a clock radio, smoke detector, or other gadget she won't suspect. They make VARs that look like a pen (and do write). If I were you, I'd carefully hide a VAR in your bedroom. Also in the living room or other area she would likely sit and talk on the phone. One in her car. Hide them well, because she may now be cautious given your observation of the bed moving.

Carefully search her car. All the cubbies and compartments, including spare tire, etc. You're looking for anything odd. Review the phone records carefully, going back at least a year. Changes in patterns may pop out. Review credit card records. Put a GPS on her car.

Another thought is to just end the marriage. It obviously has serious problems. Perhaps you would both be happier if you just split. If you live in a no-fault state it may be easier just to pull the eject handle rather than go looking for an affair. Talk to an atty first. Most will give a free 15-30 minute consult where you can find out how things work where you live.


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## Talker67

blueinbr said:


> Maybe you should go into the details why your marriage is sexless. It's relevant.


a sexless marriage is one just ASKING for trouble. fix that!


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## 225985

Talker67 said:


> a sexless marriage is one just ASKING for trouble. fix that!




Well, i was trying unfortunately . That's why I'm here.


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## MJJEAN

Does she use the space under the bed for storage? If she isn't using under the bed totes or something similar, does she maybe stash her vibrator and dildo collection there? Does she maybe have a sock with her "emergency fund" hidden in the box spring?

If there's nothing stored or hidden under the bed, I'd go with perhaps she is having enthusiastic sex with someone while you're away.


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## jetpilot37

I appreciate all the replies. Someone asked me to expound more about the sexless marriage. When we started dating in Dec '06, we had a great sex life, in fact I've rarely had anyone as sexual as she. Gorgeous, eleven years younger than me, and with the sex drive of a man was a recipe I enjoyed. Then it happened, I proposed. She started turning me down more and more throughout the year long engagement and by the time we tied the knot we were mostly celibate. She always had an excuse and judging by the way things where in that area prior to our getting married, I figured things had to return to the way they were when we met at some point? She eventually tells me she has no sex drive and blames it on hormones. She initially didn't want to go see a doctor so getting her to do that took a while. Once she went to a doctor and went through testing and such, she was diagnosed with PCOS. I think that might be part of it, but the other issue is there's extensive abuse in her past. Definitely emotional and more than likely sexual. She can't recall any of her childhood however has admitted to remembering bits and pieces of sexual abuse. She says she doesn't remember who or what the circumstance or at what age. I have read and confirmed with a couple of different therapist that women who are sexual abuse survivors, that once they get married, sex becomes a struggle. The survivor sees her husband as the one whom abused her, and so intimacy, both sexual and emotional goes out the window. Once I read this and talk to a couple of therapist I know, it all made sense. My company provides free counseling through our EAP so I have called and got that set up yet she will not go. I don't think she's being rebellious, just is terrified of opening up. This is the same person who when the two of us went to premarital counseling, started crying just walking in the door. It is very very painful for her to talk about anything deep. So my beliefs are that she has a sex drive, had had a sex drive, yet just nothing for me. And believe me I've done everything I can on my end. Interestingly enough, since she and I had our talk which spawned my writing all of this, we have slept together several times, basically every day. This hasn't happened in years. I'm not sure what to make of it. I do have some precautions in place at home now that I'm staring a new trip for work this evening. Does anyone know the specifics of FB Messenger? Like is it possible to put spy ware on her phone that can monitor those messages without jail breaking her phone (android)?? Once again, I appreciate the info and support from you all. 


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## jetpilot37

Thor said:


> jetpilot, welcome aboard! I'm an airline captain fwiw. I've heard more stories of cheating pilot's wives than I care to think about. It is an epidemic.
> 
> First thing, stfu about any suspicions with your wife. And try to just stfu about everything until you've thought about it for a few moments at least. Let me tell you a story...
> 
> Years ago I suspected my wife (now ex-wife) was cheating. Kids were teens, I wasn't ready to nuke the marriage, and besides I hadn't been to TAM and didn't know about Weightlifter's thread on gathering intel. Lots of smoking guns, blood all over, but no dead body. So, I was not ready to file for divorce. Then, the trail went cold. I approached her about MC and tried talking with her about fixing the marriage. It appeared the affair was finished, if there'd been one.
> 
> So there we were, waiting for a flight for the big family vacation, killing time looking at my old, weak, smart phone. And I discovered a hidden mail folder. She had the same make/model phone, too. And I spontaneously blurted out what I'd discovered. Hundreds and hundreds of old emails going back several years. As the words were halfway out of my mouth I tried but failed to think of a way to change the sentence to keep from telling her this, so that I could later look at the emails she'd cleansed from her computer. Well, she suddenly glued her phone inside her pocket until late night after I'd gone to sleep, and she manually erased about 700 old emails. There was no bulk delete function. She spent several hours deleting them out while I slept.
> 
> I lost any chance of accessing her old emails by blurting something out without thinking. So be careful in what you say for the next few weeks while you investigate.
> 
> Consider installing a video camera built into a clock radio, smoke detector, or other gadget she won't suspect. They make VARs that look like a pen (and do write). If I were you, I'd carefully hide a VAR in your bedroom. Also in the living room or other area she would likely sit and talk on the phone. One in her car. Hide them well, because she may now be cautious given your observation of the bed moving.
> 
> Carefully search her car. All the cubbies and compartments, including spare tire, etc. You're looking for anything odd. Review the phone records carefully, going back at least a year. Changes in patterns may pop out. Review credit card records. Put a GPS on her car.
> 
> Another thought is to just end the marriage. It obviously has serious problems. Perhaps you would both be happier if you just split. If you live in a no-fault state it may be easier just to pull the eject handle rather than go looking for an affair. Talk to an atty first. Most will give a free 15-30 minute consult where you can find out how things work where you live.




Hey Thor, thanks for the reply. So what happened if I may ask? Was that the final straw as far as seeing her deleting those emails? Yes, it's quite the epidemic with our industry. I have several friends who have gone through the same BS. 


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## jetpilot37

MJJEAN said:


> Does she use the space under the bed for storage? If she isn't using under the bed totes or something similar, does she maybe stash her vibrator and dildo collection there? Does she maybe have a sock with her "emergency fund" hidden in the box spring?
> 
> If there's nothing stored or hidden under the bed, I'd go with perhaps she is having enthusiastic sex with someone while you're away.




Yeah, there's nothing under there. I'm the one that does most of the cleaning so I vacuum under our bed -we have stained cement floors and I would've seen something along those lines. She's a sharp person. And I'm frankly surprised she slipped up like this. She is a fraud investigator for an insurance company, doesn't miss anything. Has an eye like I've never seen for detail. I don't think it's been recent, as far as any activity with her and someone else, I just noticed the bed moved this one occasion. Of course now she will be very diligent about that. Thanks for your help. 


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## GusPolinski

So no kids?

Pull the cord, Captain.


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## introvert

I'm in a very active relationship right now, and my bed walks quite a bit. There's definitely something going on


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## Joe75

jp37

Noting that your wife is “very good at covering her tracks”, as per Spicy’s recommendation, I also suggest you consider hiring a professional such as a PI, the next time you are away from home. A PI can setup a surveillance, follow your wife, provide advice on placement of VARS, etc.

A common error is confronting a wayward spouse too soon with insufficient evidence. A not unusual result is the wayward spouse denning, deflecting, turning the table, etc. resulting in the betrayed spouse backing down. Before you confront, you want to be in the position of asking questions you already know the answers to. 

If this affair is still ongoing, particularly if your wife is bringing the other man in your home, the PI’s report and other discovery actions will likely provide the required evidence in a relatively short period of time.

In the interim, it is important you act like “life is normal” so that you wife does not become suspicious that you may be aware; thus, resulting in her in doubling down in “covering her tracks”.

Joe 75


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## JohnA

Please read thor's threads and posts. He dropped it, accepted and lived in a poor marriage for years, she filed.

Your post about CSA may well be the truth. I have not read any threads where reconciliation was successful once the CSA victim went down the path of adultery. There is one thread that is some what current on the board now, but he did not have a sexless marriage. 
@JayOwen I believe is his user name. He has made the decision to work on reconciliation. A decision I respect and support as he is fully aware of the pitfalls ahead and has a solid exit plan in mind if unsuccessful.


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## Thor

jetpilot37 said:


> When we started dating in Dec '06, we had a great sex life, in fact I've rarely had anyone as sexual as she. Gorgeous, eleven years younger than me, and with the sex drive of a man was a recipe I enjoyed. Then it happened, I proposed. She started turning me down more and more throughout the year long engagement and by the time we tied the knot we were mostly celibate. She always had an excuse and judging by the way things where in that area prior to our getting married, I figured things had to return to the way they were when we met at some point? She eventually tells me she has no sex drive and blames it on hormones. She initially didn't want to go see a doctor so getting her to do that took a while. Once she went to a doctor and went through testing and such, she was diagnosed with PCOS. I think that might be part of it, but the other issue is there's extensive abuse in her past. Definitely emotional and more than likely sexual. She can't recall any of her childhood however has admitted to remembering bits and pieces of sexual abuse. She says she doesn't remember who or what the circumstance or at what age. I have read and confirmed with a couple of different therapist that women who are sexual abuse survivors, that once they get married, sex becomes a struggle. The survivor sees her husband as the one whom abused her, and so intimacy, both sexual and emotional goes out the window. Once I read this and talk to a couple of therapist I know, it all made sense. My company provides free counseling through our EAP so I have called and got that set up yet she will not go. I don't think she's being rebellious, just is terrified of opening up. This is the same person who when the two of us went to premarital counseling, started crying just walking in the door. It is very very painful for her to talk about anything deep. So my beliefs are that she has a sex drive, had had a sex drive, yet just nothing for me. And believe me I've done everything I can on my end. Interestingly enough, since she and I had our talk which spawned my writing all of this, we have slept together several times, basically every day. This hasn't happened in years. I'm not sure what to make of it. I do have some precautions in place at home now that I'm staring a new trip for work this evening. Does anyone know the specifics of FB Messenger? Like is it possible to put spy ware on her phone that can monitor those messages without jail breaking her phone (android)?? Once again, I appreciate the info and support from you all.


By the time I got to the line about her having childhood abuse it was obvious that was going to be the situation. You have a good general understanding that this is a typical progression. Your situation is textbook. It sounds to me as if she were victimized at a fairly young age, grade school most likely. Her sexual history sounds to me inconsistent with a teen rape victim, though CSA victims sometimes find themselves also rape victims as teens.

None of us are qualified to actually diagnose her, but this is how it reads to me.

Nothing is going to get better unless and until she deals with her childhood abuse. She needs a good therapist who specializes in child sex abuse. You can't be her therapist. At best, with the direction of her therapist, you can be a support to her.

You are a Secondary Survivor of Child Sex Abuse. She is the victim or the Survivor. You are the Secondary, meaning you are enjoying the fallout. And this is a terrible place to be. You have to tread very carefully in discussing the entire topic of CSA with her. Many times the victim believes they are ultimately unloveable because of the abuse. This is why they hide it. Perhaps a parent or other adult knew of the abuse and told her to stfu because nobody would believe her, or that she would be ostracized if people knew she were a dirty girl. Such events may be more damaging to the young child than the actual abuse events themselves. Anyhow, you and I know she is a victim of a crime, and is not dirty or unloveable, but she may not. So, she fears anyone finding out about the abuse. 

Additionally, she cannot distinguish between the abuse itself and the long term effects it has on her. She is unhappy and feeling anxious at times, and she has behaviors which harm the marriage and upset you. To admit she has these issues may be in her mind the same as admitting she was at fault for the abuse (which makes her in her mind a dirty unloveable person if she was at fault for the abuse). So, to admit she has issues today could be a very frightening thing to her. She may not even cognitively understand it, but she may fear if she admits to deficiencies as a wife then you may see her as dirty and unloveable.

Remember she most likely experienced whatever abuse as a young child, not an adult or even a teen. So she has encoded it as a child would. Some say the child never matures emotionally from the time of the abuse. Idk if I fully agree with it, but I think it is accurate to say she doesn't have the same perspective or ability to evaluate it as non victims do.


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## Thor

jetpilot37 said:


> Hey Thor, thanks for the reply. So what happened if I may ask? Was that the final straw as far as seeing her deleting those emails? Yes, it's quite the epidemic with our industry. I have several friends who have gone through the same BS.


So what happened was basically nothing. I didn't take decisive action.

We arrived at the vacation house mid-day. She kept her phone in her pocket the whole day. Very uncharacteristic!

Those old phones only deleted emails with a slow data connection and had to delete them from the main server. So it was a slow process to delete emails.

So that evening she had it on the charger and I took a quick peek, seeing something like 800 or 900 emails going back about 2 years. That was right through the suspicious time period. But I didn't have time to look more closely.

And I never just took her phone. We were a few weeks into trying to fix things, and I was in that euphoric state of thinking she was on board. Actually she wasn't, she was doing just enough for me to think so.

So I woke up at like 4 am and stealthily took her phone. She'd moved it to the nightstand next to her. I went under the covers and went to the folder, to find all but the most recent few emails had been erased. She had waited until I went to sleep and then deleted them.

Going by how long it took me to erase my old emails during the next week, she spent around 90 minutes deleting hers. I made up some silly reason to ask her about it, which she replied that she woke up in the night and had nothing better to do.

I wish I'd said nothing when I discovered the hidden folder on my phone. But we'd both been having major storage issues with those old phones and my immediate reaction was I'd found a way to solve it. Stupid! And I should have just taken her phone and gone for a long walk with it when we got to the vacation house. I permanently lost any chance of finding out what had been going on.


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## Thor

JohnA said:


> Please read thor's threads and posts. He dropped it, accepted and lived in a poor marriage for years, she filed.


I went through that same loop several times, thinking she was on board but then discovering yet another lie or deception. I tried to fix the marriage because of the kids. We were obviously done and she decided to pull the plug when it would protect her self image, using a situation to convince herself she was the good guy and me the perp. I had been talking to a trusted advisor on my phone in the house the week before, saying that I had lost hope and was trying to decide when to tell her I wanted a divorce. I wonder if she had a VAR planted in the house given the timing and how she told me.



JohnA said:


> Your post about CSA may well be the truth. I have not read any threads where reconciliation was successful once the CSA victim went down the path of adultery. There is one thread that is some what current on the board now, but he did not have a sexless marriage.


I know a couple of cases IRL. But I don't think the outcome is all that good for them. More of a least-worst outcome financially and socially. But R is frequently not very satisfactory regardless of CSA.

CSA is one of the top 3 risk factors correlated to a woman cheating. There can be much dysfunction involved in all aspects of relationships with a CSA victim.


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## farsidejunky

jetpilot37 said:


> I appreciate all the replies. Someone asked me to expound more about the sexless marriage. When we started dating in Dec '06, we had a great sex life, in fact I've rarely had anyone as sexual as she. Gorgeous, eleven years younger than me, and with the sex drive of a man was a recipe I enjoyed. Then it happened, I proposed. She started turning me down more and more throughout the year long engagement and by the time we tied the knot we were mostly celibate. She always had an excuse and judging by the way things where in that area prior to our getting married, I figured things had to return to the way they were when we met at some point? She eventually tells me she has no sex drive and blames it on hormones. She initially didn't want to go see a doctor so getting her to do that took a while. Once she went to a doctor and went through testing and such, she was diagnosed with PCOS. I think that might be part of it, but the other issue is there's extensive abuse in her past. Definitely emotional and more than likely sexual. She can't recall any of her childhood however has admitted to remembering bits and pieces of sexual abuse. She says she doesn't remember who or what the circumstance or at what age. I have read and confirmed with a couple of different therapist that women who are sexual abuse survivors, that once they get married, sex becomes a struggle. The survivor sees her husband as the one whom abused her, and so intimacy, both sexual and emotional goes out the window. Once I read this and talk to a couple of therapist I know, it all made sense. My company provides free counseling through our EAP so I have called and got that set up yet she will not go. I don't think she's being rebellious, just is terrified of opening up. This is the same person who when the two of us went to premarital counseling, started crying just walking in the door. It is very very painful for her to talk about anything deep. So my beliefs are that she has a sex drive, had had a sex drive, yet just nothing for me. And believe me I've done everything I can on my end. Interestingly enough, since she and I had our talk which spawned my writing all of this, we have slept together several times, basically every day. This hasn't happened in years. I'm not sure what to make of it. I do have some precautions in place at home now that I'm staring a new trip for work this evening. Does anyone know the specifics of FB Messenger? Like is it possible to put spy ware on her phone that can monitor those messages without jail breaking her phone (android)?? Once again, I appreciate the info and support from you all.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Based on this post alone, you knew you had problems long before your bed "moved".

Why did it take this incident to get you to seek help?


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## jetpilot37

farsidejunky said:


> Based on this post alone, you knew you had problems long before your bed "moved".
> 
> Why did it take this incident to get you to seek help?




I suppose "seeking help" is relative to each specific person. As far as getting opinions on here, i don't have a lot of people in my close social network that I care knowing about this right now. So getting opinions on here seemingly works for now. Over the past seven years of our marriage I've spoken with numerous friends and several counselors about issues that came up. This medium is just a different angle if that answers your question. 


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## jetpilot37

GusPolinski said:


> Any kids?




None


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## GusPolinski

jetpilot37 said:


> None
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Blacksmith01

Want to say that I am sorry that you are here. Also I have an old maple sleigh bed and the only time that it moves is when I am trying to get a gf to tap out. I would say that you are 100% right on your hunch. Now you can use VAR's and key loggers to get proof but why? Do you really want to hear someone else making the bed move with her in it? Do you really need to see the body that bad? With the drugs and other stuff what does she really bring to your life? Sounds to me that it is long past time to pop smoke and leave her to do her thing while you find happiness.


----------



## Wolfman1968

GusPolinski said:


>


Oh, that Gus! Always giving the possibly Wayward Spouse the benefit of the doubt.


----------



## GusPolinski

Wolfman1968 said:


> Oh, that Gus! Always giving the possibly Wayward Spouse the benefit of the doubt.


If it quacks...


----------



## Wolfman1968

It's a little off-topic, but I can't look at the title of this thread without hearing Nancy Sinatra in my head.


----------



## 225985

@jetpilot37

Captain, I sent you a private message. Please read it.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Wolfman1968 said:


> It's a little off-topic, but I can't look at the title of this thread without hearing Nancy Sinatra in my head.


Great, thanks for the ear worm. :moon:


----------



## TDSC60

jetpilot37 said:


> Interestingly enough, since she and I had our talk which spawned my writing all of this, we have slept together several times, basically every day. This hasn't happened in years. I'm not sure what to make of it.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Cheating spouses use sex to manipulate the betrayed spouse when questions related to cheating start to come up. After all, she can not be cheating if she is having sex with you. Can she? 

So you make a comment that shows her you suspect something, then suddenly your sex life goes to overdrive. Something that has not happened in years. Not a coincidence. She thinks she can eliminate your suspicions with sex. But what it really does is confirm your suspicions.

You should also consider that now that she knows that you suspect something, she will switch tactics as in finding another place for her extracurricular activities. A couple of VARs around the house is still not a bad idea if you have to have solid proof before you bale.


----------



## bandit.45

From what you have told us I would say the chances are high she has been having company over while you are gone. 

Hide a VAR and maybe even a couple of mini-cams around the bedroom and living room while you are gone. Or hire a PI to stake out the house while you are away. A good PI is worth the money.


----------



## TDSC60

bandit.45 said:


> From what you have told us I would say the chances are high she has been having company over while you are gone.
> 
> Hide a VAR and maybe even a couple of mini-cams around the bedroom and living room while you are gone. Or hire a PI to stake out the house while you are away. A good PI is worth the money.


I would invest in a good GPS tracker for her car. Maybe even hiring a PI firm to track that for you while you are gone so they can deploy to a bar, or private residence if she shows up there.

Definitely a VAR in the car.

PIs are good, but I would not concentrate on the house only.

She now knows he is suspicious because of the "walking bed" comment. She may change tactics totally. Even stopping for a while if she is not in "love" with another man.

Worst case is that she is just having "fun sex" while you are gone and not a full time affair. This will be hard to catch.


----------



## bandit.45

The fact that a healthy, beautiful woman would stop having sex with her much older husband soon after marriage speaks to me of a gold digger who married for money and who could care less for her husband. 

Sorry, but that is just the way I see it. All the other empirical evidence just falls into place right after this. She got comfortable with what she was doing, got sloppy, and forgot to re-position the bed after having company over.


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## bandit.45

I feel bad for you OP. But I would have felt worse for you if you had come home early and found her bent over by some stranger in your marital bed. Be glad you have been spared that.


----------



## Thor

bandit.45 said:


> I feel bad for you OP. But I would have felt worse for you if you had come home early and found her bent over by some stranger in your marital bed. Be glad you have been spared that.


I know 3 pilots in real life who came home unexpectedly early to see their wife in bed with the OM. And I caught my wife in a major deception due to coming home unexpectedly early. Pilots joke about don't go home early without calling first, but it is based on too many such experiences.


----------



## SunCMars

Blacksmith01 said:


> Want to say that I am sorry that you are here. Also I have an old maple sleigh bed and the only time that it moves is when I am trying to get a gf to tap out. I would say that you are 100% right on your hunch. Now you can use VAR's and key loggers to get proof but why? Do you really want to hear someone else making the bed move with her in it? Do you really need to see the body that bad? With the drugs and other stuff what does she really bring to your life? Sounds to me that it is long past time *to pop smoke* and leave her to do her thing while you find happiness.


Pop smoke....that triggers me timbers, run for the cover that up-range lead.. not find. 

Pop smoke........your co-pilot, en Casa, is doing that.....

What is she hiding?


----------



## bandit.45

This wife sounds like Ginger McKenna from _Casino_. A drug addicted tart who uses men.


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## jetpilot37

Late last night I was reading some of the technical info from weight lifters post (thanks by the way)I decided to hack into my wife's google play and take a look. So I got in, was only in her account for a few minutes I changed browsers came back and had been locked out and when I try to login it says the password had been changed. This is 230 in the morning. I guess she has her phone set up to notify her?? Very strange. I found where she had purchased a picture vault app, presumably for nude pics. I of course haven't seen anything like that. I also saw an app called Hushed for calling anonymously. Several of those purchases. It's very sad and I'm in a terrible place with this. It's very hard for me to not confront her very hard. I'm on the road and won't be home till Wednesday night. Thanks for all your help. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Thor

Deny everything if she asks you about it. Though it could be the location of logging in is shown on her history, in which case she'd guess it was you doing the hacking. Still, I would either deny everything (and blame hackers), or if there is some solid reason you could have accidentally hit her login you could claim that.

Is she very savvy about tech?

Anyhow, expect her to ask you about it. Or, if she doesn't, she knows it was you and will proceed more carefully in the future.

You know enough now about her activities. Picture vault, the calling app. That all sounds like affair enabling stuff.

Another approach is to just be very direct. But, warning, you must be ready to pull the plug on the marriage when you do this. What you do is ask her for her phone when you get home. And ask her to sit you down at her computer and log in to it. Tell her there are no secrets in a marriage, and you have seen enough to believe she is keeping secrets. (Don't defend or justify yourself on any of this). Tell her things as of this moment are going to be completely transparent. You both share all your passwords and electronics. The reason is to kill any chance for unjustified suspicions, thus strengthening the marriage. Ask to see her picture vault and the history of the calling app. Ask her why she bought those apps.

There is no room for secrecy in a marriage. Privacy is in the bathroom and the doctor's office.

But you must be prepared for her to deny, stall, get angry, accuse you of affairs (my wife did that, with the old thing about how all pilots and flight attendants are sleeping together all the time), call you controlling, etc.

Either she willingly and immediately gives you full access to everything, or she is hiding things she knows you would be very upset to learn about. If you would pull the eject handle based on this, it is your strong move. But few are able to do this. Most (me included) wanted to believe the sliver of a chance things weren't as they seemed, that there was some legitimate explanation.

If you can't do that, your strategy would be to investigate further. Which means keeping your suspicions hidden from her. You want her to be as incautious as possible so she unwittingly reveals something.

From now on, before you hack into anything or do any confrontations, come to this forum first. We could have warned you about what you did.


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## JohnA

Enough, you do not need more info now, or ever really. Just use the 180 and file. Do not tell her just do it. Anything else is a waste of time and your life. Truman once said "if it walks like a duck, it quacks like a duck, it's a duck". End of story. 

She might/will press you. Which is common with a person with her background and recent actions. For them public image is everything and they will never stop blame shifting and demanding you "prove" it without every admitting the truth. They live and die by TT. They becme expert at DARVO. Not sure if I posted Marducks post on the subject. If I have not use the @ function and ask me to do so. 

Above all else: the infidelity, gas lighting, TT, Blameshifting, DARVO, etc must END. It ends with either a divorce or reconcilation. Understand she must ask you for it, and tell you how she will achieve it. You cannot ask or suggest anything to her until she shows you she has read up on the subject, asked your advise as to what type of therapist to see, etc. I could give you a long list of things that must be done BUT the start of the list must start with you. 

She loves you, what's to reconcile. You "reconcile how"? Her: "I need your help to figure that out". You "no, yout got to prove things by actions. You got to get ideas on your own. I will respond but you got to lead". She comes back with ideas. You "ok, what else"?


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## JohnA

To echo what @Thor posted (we cross posted). The things he mentions are exactly what she needs to tell you. She is sn adult, not a child. A lot of her problem is a part of her is still a child waiting for her abuser to tell her what to do. Marriage is between two adults, no children allowed.


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## Nevermoreagain

jetpilot37 said:


> Late last night I was reading some of the technical info from weight lifters post (thanks by the way)I decided to hack into my wife's google play and take a look. So I got in, was only in her account for a few minutes I changed browsers came back and had been locked out and when I try to login it says the password had been changed. This is 230 in the morning. I guess she has her phone set up to notify her?? Very strange. I found where she had purchased a picture vault app, presumably for nude pics. I of course haven't seen anything like that. I also saw an app called Hushed for calling anonymously. Several of those purchases. It's very sad and I'm in a terrible place with this. It's very hard for me to not confront her very hard. I'm on the road and won't be home till Wednesday night. Thanks for all your help.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Jet, I am a wayward spouse. So, for what it is worth, here is my opinion. She is fooling around. I am not saying she has had actually sex yet, i can't speak to that, although it does seem suspicious. But there is too much "hinky" stuff going on with the internet. There is something that she is trying to hide. I agree that she is waiting for you to catch her. It sounds like she is experienced enough in things that if she didn't want you to know, you wouldn't. I also agree that you have to completely turn the table on her and make her come to you. She either comes to you as an adult or not at all. She is playing games, games that married people don't play. Make her tell you how she is going to fix this. If she is not willing to be completely transparent with EVERYTHING, walk away. I hope that we are all wrong.


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## Nucking Futs

Nevermoreagain said:


> Jet, I am a wayward spouse. So, for what it is worth, here is my opinion. She is fooling around. *I am not saying she has had actually sex yet, i can't speak to that,* although it does seem suspicious. But there is too much "hinky" stuff going on with the internet. There is something that she is trying to hide. I agree that she is waiting for you to catch her. It sounds like she is experienced enough in things that if she didn't want you to know, you wouldn't. I also agree that you have to completely turn the table on her and make her come to you. She either comes to you as an adult or not at all. She is playing games, games that married people don't play. Make her tell you how she is going to fix this. If she is not willing to be completely transparent with EVERYTHING, walk away. I hope that we are all wrong.


I can. That bed didn't walk from fooling around, it took some pounding.


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## SunCMars

jetpilot37 said:


> Late last night I was reading some of the technical info from weight lifters post (thanks by the way)I decided to hack into my wife's google play and take a look. So I got in, was only in her account for a few minutes I changed browsers came back and had been locked out and when I try to login it says the password had been changed. This is 230 in the morning. I guess she has her phone set up to notify her?? Very strange. I found where she had purchased a picture vault app, presumably for nude pics. I of course haven't seen anything like that. I also saw an app called Hushed for calling anonymously. Several of those purchases. It's very sad and* I'm in a terrible place with this. *It's very hard for me to not confront her very hard. I'm on the road and won't be home till Wednesday night. Thanks for all your help.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The below narrative is aimed at a cheating spouse, that might be married to you. We need more proof, Jet Packed Pilot

.........................................................................................................................................................................................................
That terrible place [you have mentioned] will still be "their" next Wednesday. Hang in there. Stay sober. Some of us TAM posters might be on your plane. She ain't worth an updraft or a fart from Hell. 

If will be "THEIR" in your mind until "Dust do you part". Till you Depart, till you Off-Plain De-Plane, Dis-Embark....off. 

Off of the grass covered Tarmac, the "known" living plane that we all fly "in", "with", "among", "atop". However your pumpkin processes it. 

There is no immediate need to confront. The real need now is to prepare for a life without "this" women. Your wife checked out a while back. She is in baggage claim. She cannot leave "their". Too much baggage for her skinny arms, her little selfish back. 

Very soon, she will, naturally, abandon all bags without handles. She will deny them. They are not hers. She cannot be linked to them. She will say, "Show me the Baggage Claim, Husband". 
She will get out the barbecue propane tank and fill up the Gas Light. It will blind un-clever....overly kind and trusting fools.

Remember what Colin Powell said about the first invasion of Iraq. We will go in with Overwhelming Force. You need to do the same. Get so much crap on this lady that she will need a snow shovel to uncover her bare feet. Let the crap ooze up between those manicured toes.
Uncover the bull dung that she is wallowing in. Expose the rotting lies hidden and tattooed on her furry Wart Hog.

Sometimes I say "You have enough". You do not have enough for me. Sorry.

When you have enough to ration a hungry TAM army, jettison the toilet water at 50K ft. It will freeze solid long before hitting her 4-wheel drive [bed hopping] loon buggy. 

*Death from Above*, her sex transport laid to waste by solid human awful offal. 



Make sure your suit...case provides "those" handles for the "Dear One". The lesser half of you. The one with the deflated boobs.


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## jetpilot37

Thanks everyone for your replies. I do believe it's more than sexting or just leading guys on. That was her MO before we got married and of course I didn't understand this or see this until we had actually gotten married, found out about her drug problem and started digging deeper. She likes to see how close she can get to the fire without getting burned. I think her knowing that another man wants her is enough or was enough, but I'm betting it's crossed over into sex. I also wonder if I've just flat been deceived and she's just a serial cheater. Someone suggested I strong arm her and sit down when I get in and look through her phone. I was thinking this already. I have her phone password so I had thought about just when she goes to sleep getting her phone and leaving the house with it and going to my mothers house and running a search on it. I really just don't need all this right now but you know who does? Me and alcohol don't mix. I left that mistress over ten years ago. But this isn't good for my sobriety. I will probably sign off here for a couple days to try and focus on work and well anything else till I get home. I'm grateful the concern, and appreciate all the comments and help. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lostme

Take care. Hang in there whatever happens you are not alone, you have us to help get you through it.


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## Sparta

OP look don't let her blame you for any of this is that's what they do. And OP you're going to need to support please update us at least because you're heads going to be stuck all in the ass and some good people here you can listen to that can guide you through the storm that's coming. Be strong do not for any reason out your hands on her... Be advised about when you confront her have a VAR (Voice activated recorder) recording or use an app on your phone going to cover your ass, if she's under the influence of any drugs they usually revert to going batsh!t crazy when the sh!t hits the fan she'll know that she's busted that will trigger her, that's when they go nuclear. She'll want to get you out of there ... not only to protect the affair but also her addiction will defend itself all cost. So to cover your a$$ from her reporting false DV Chargers (domestic violence) She won't even think twice to call Police Department.. and update US please.?


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## GusPolinski

I'll bet she changed the password to her phone as well.


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## Sparta

.


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## MattMatt

@jetpilot37 if she asks about the hack say "Damn it! Someone must have hacked our WiFi! I'll have to check the router settings and the WiFi settings on our anti virus software."


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## bandit.45

jetpilot37 said:


> Thanks everyone for your replies. I do believe it's more than sexting or just leading guys on. That was her MO before we got married and of course I didn't understand this or see this until we had actually gotten married, found out about her drug problem and started digging deeper. She likes to see how close she can get to the fire without getting burned. I think her knowing that another man wants her is enough or was enough, but I'm betting it's crossed over into sex. I also wonder if I've just flat been deceived and she's just a serial cheater. Someone suggested I strong arm her and sit down when I get in and look through her phone. I was thinking this already. I have her phone password so I had thought about just when she goes to sleep getting her phone and leaving the house with it and going to my mothers house and running a search on it. I really just don't need all this right now but you know who does? Me and alcohol don't mix. I left that mistress over ten years ago. But this isn't good for my sobriety. I will probably sign off here for a couple days to try and focus on work and well anything else till I get home. I'm grateful the concern, and appreciate all the comments and help.


Your best bet is to spend a couple grand and hire a reputable P.I. S/He can gather more information in a couple of weeks than you could in two months. It would be worth the money for your piece of mind. 

Your situation has more red flags than a construction site. She's definitely up to no good. 



> She likes to see how close she can get to the fire without getting burned


This is the hallmark of an addictive personality. Addictive personalities love to live on the edge. It is the risk that gives her the thrill. Dangerous sex is the hottest sex.


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## BetrayedDad

@jetpilot37 - I knew a lot of coke head chicks in college. They didn't get any easier to slay.

Next time before you go out of town, purchase a VAR and tape it under your bed or slip it into the lining of your box spring.

You'll have your answers.....


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## wmn1

bandit.45 said:


> Your best bet is to spend a couple grand and hire a reputable P.I. S/He can gather more information in a couple of weeks than you could in two months. It would be worth the money for your piece of mind.
> 
> Your situation has more red flags than a construction site. She's definitely up to no good.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the hallmark of an addictive personality. Addictive personalities love to live on the edge. It is the risk that gives her the thrill. Dangerous sex is the hottest sex.


I agree with this.

I am just scratching my head about why he married her with his future pilot career and his catching her before married ? None-the-less, I would bail on her at this point


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## jb02157

Wow, she messes with drugs and sexting and on top of all that she cheating on you. I would question while you need any other reasons to get rid of her. Tons of red flags. You don't need someone like her to get you messed up with these things with her.


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## JohnA

No, CHILL OUT. Right now if I was on a plane flying that is in trouble with the pilot I am on the phone trying to buy life insurance cause the damn plane is going to crash. 

First commandment of infidelity: it must end, either though divorce or repentance and reconcilation. 

Second commandant: Never offer your proof, simply speak to an attorney, fill out all paperwork, including settlement offer and present tp WS and ask them to review. Begin 180 Critical Readings For Separation and Divorce - LoveShack.org Community Forums, DO NOT ask or give conditions for reconciliation. 

Third Commandment: WS must do the heavy lifting which includes not being told what to do, but digging, digging and digging until they discover it. When they seek confination confirm or deny, offer why you accept or reject, offer insight and nuances for them to consider and encourage them to keep digging as there is more info before you will recommit. Use IC and posting here to keep a clear head. 

Fourth Commandment: IC for both parties before MC. Beware of IC and MC in general they often do not only more harm then good but rather turn a nightmare into a holocaust. Reach them carefully seek advise here and else where before selection. Read just let them go.


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## Steve1000

TX-SC said:


> Is it possible that she is a particularly violent masturbator?


It would take a pretty big engine on her vibe to move a bed that far....


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## LosingHim

wmn1 said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> I am just scratching my head about why he married her with his future pilot career and his catching her before married ? None-the-less, I would bail on her at this point


Unless I mis-read, I think she did these things prior to them getting married, but he didn’t discover them until after they got married. The first post made it seem like he discovered them pre-marriage, but then there was a later post that made it sound like it happened before the marriage but he discovered after the marriage. 

Not related to your post, but all of the people asking why he needs any more information, etc. Some people just want the proof, the actual smoking gun in order to leave. Without it, it’s just too easy to say “But what if they’re not……”


----------



## JohnA

I wish I could claim credit for this masterpiece but I can't. It belongs to very wise member from another website. It should be etched in the minds of every man and woman who has been the victim on infidelity.

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.


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## bandit.45

So JP, have you decided what course of action you will take?


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## bandit.45

JetPilot please respond. You have diverged from your FPL. What is your vector?


----------



## farsidejunky

bandit.45 said:


> JetPilot please respond. You have diverged from your FPL. What is your vector?


:nerd:


----------



## 225985

bandit.45 said:


> So JP, have you decided what course of action you will take?




Looks like this flight is cancelled


----------



## bandit.45

Someone call the FAA. We lost him.


----------



## browser

Do we have yet another aviation mystery on our hands? It's like the third one in the past year. 

I'm getting afraid to fly.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

LosingHim said:


> Not related to your post, but all of the people asking why he needs any more information, etc. Some people just want the proof, the actual smoking gun in order to leave. Without it, it’s just too easy to say “But what if they’re not……”


 The other side is he came here for advice. Part of giving advice is stating the obvious because when you are in the thick of things, you become oblivious to what is right in front of you. Even if the person chooses to go all in, they need to hear the "why waste your money and time" argument as well.


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## Thor

Hopefully not a case of CFIT (Controlled Flight Into Terrain).


----------



## browser

Thor said:


> Hopefully not a case of CFIT (Controlled Flight Into Terrain).


Does it really matter how you hit it?


----------



## jetpilot37

Hello everyone. First of all I want to apologize for taking so long to respond. As you all predicted, my world imploded shortly after I got home from my last trip and last posted on here.
She got careless, left an android tablet with no PW protection sitting in our dining room. I waited till she went to sleep then went through the tablet. Needless to say, I found plenty of concern. She was using anonymous phone apps to text the OM. At first I didn't understand who it was because she had the number listed under a male friend of ours name. This at first threw me. I photographed everything I found and decided on a plan. I made up a story that the OM had just called me to confess and make amends for sleeping with my wife. I said he sounded really drunk and wondered how he got my number. I used the name of a man I knew she had dated a couple times in the past and slept with prior to us meeting. There's a couple of men like that on her Facebook until he was already on my radar. And while going through her tablet I saw where she was obsessively looking at his Facebook page. Something told me then, that's your boy. So I went and woke her up as she was taking a nap it was late afternoon. I told her the above story that I had concocted, I acted very upset. She looks at me and says what did he say? She was trying to figure out an answer. I told her that this person had confessed to having a lot of sex with my wife and was trying to make amends. She said oh he is an absolute drunk and we only slept together once! I'll make this short and sweet. We talked for several hours she still has stuck to her guns that I was one time. And this was the only person in seven years that she slept with or had an affair with. I buy none of it except that she has slept with someone else. Initially I think the fixer in me, agreed to work through a counselor and I told her what I expected. But she has shown very little remorse with the exception of the first night. This reaction has amaze me. I have been unable to eat, well much of anything, not had much sleep and quite frankly wish I would have just gone through with the divorce instead of investigating. I have access to her android phone and could run Dr Fone on it, but I just am having enough trouble with the details and I do know. Another note, the OM, ******* alcoholic, Who has been in a lot of legal trouble. His life is in a downward spiral. People that know me and know her and have seen pictures of him can't fathom it. When I found out it was him I was more concerned for her mental state that she would choose to be with someone like that. She also confessed to abusing prescription medications as well. She also was very obsessed with him -there's a lot I don't know and like I said I just don't really want to know. I sincerely want to thank everyone on here for their input, you all have been very helpful. Once again I apologize for the delay in getting back. Two weeks later I'm just now able to function and somewhat of a normal manner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jetpilot37

Sorry for the grammar mistakes, I use a Dictaphone on my iPhone. Thanks again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl

Sorry that what you suspected is the reality of it. But I'm not surprised.

Do you know what you want to do now?


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## GusPolinski

She's lying.

But does it really matter?

Kick her to the curb!

(Sorry man.)


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## Malaise

jetpilot37 said:


> Another note, the OM, ******* alcoholic, Who has been in a lot of legal trouble. His life is in a downward spiral. People that know me and know her and have seen pictures of him can't fathom it. When I found out it was him I was more concerned for her mental state that she would choose to be with someone like that.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If she's a victim of CSA she may feel shame and have little self esteem. Maybe she feels she deserves a guy like this. 

Sorry man. 

Time to move on.


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## farsidejunky

What is the next step, brother?


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## Nucking Futs

jetpilot37 said:


> Hello everyone. First of all I want to apologize for taking so long to respond. As you all predicted, my world imploded shortly after I got home from my last trip and last posted on here.
> She got careless, left an android tablet with no PW protection sitting in our dining room. I waited till she went to sleep then went through the tablet. Needless to say, I found plenty of concern. She was using anonymous phone apps to text the OM. At first I didn't understand who it was because she had the number listed under a male friend of ours name. This at first threw me. I photographed everything I found and decided on a plan. I made up a story that the OM had just called me to confess and make amends for sleeping with my wife. I said he sounded really drunk and wondered how he got my number. I used the name of a man I knew she had dated a couple times in the past and slept with prior to us meeting. There's a couple of men like that on her Facebook until he was already on my radar. And while going through her tablet I saw where she was obsessively looking at his Facebook page. Something told me then, that's your boy. So I went and woke her up as she was taking a nap it was late afternoon. I told her the above story that I had concocted, I acted very upset. She looks at me and says what did he say? She was trying to figure out an answer. I told her that this person had confessed to having a lot of sex with my wife and was trying to make amends. She said oh he is an absolute drunk and we only slept together once! I'll make this short and sweet. We talked for several hours she still has stuck to her guns that I was one time. And this was the only person in seven years that she slept with or had an affair with. I buy none of it except that she has slept with someone else. Initially I think the fixer in me, agreed to work through a counselor and I told her what I expected. But *she has shown very little remorse with the exception of the first night. This reaction has amaze me.* I have been unable to eat, well much of anything, not had much sleep and quite frankly wish I would have just gone through with the divorce instead of investigating. I have access to her android phone and could run Dr Fone on it, but I just am having enough trouble with the details and I do know. Another note, the OM, ******* alcoholic, Who has been in a lot of legal trouble. His life is in a downward spiral. People that know me and know her and have seen pictures of him can't fathom it. When I found out it was him I was more concerned for her mental state that she would choose to be with someone like that. She also confessed to abusing prescription medications as well. She also was very obsessed with him -there's a lot I don't know and like I said I just don't really want to know. I sincerely want to thank everyone on here for their input, you all have been very helpful. Once again I apologize for the delay in getting back. Two weeks later I'm just now able to function and somewhat of a normal manner.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is unfortunately not uncommon when a spouse travels a lot for business. Your role in the marriage is to pay for everything, and as long as she doesn't think that's going away she's not going to be broken up about you being upset.

Sucks to find out that you're a utility. Been there. The only thing to do is jettison her.


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## badmemory

jetpilot37 said:


> But she has shown very little remorse with the exception of the first night.


That's a non-starter for considering R.

She's trying to rug sweep. She doesn't grasp the reality of what she's done. You need to help her out.

Make an appointment with a divorce attorney and get a consultation. Don't tell her you did.

Insist that she gets an STD test, but don't don't have sex with her for now, even if she passes. Put her out of your bedroom.

Tell her that unless she demonstrates consistent remorse, transparency and willingness to do the heavy lifting to help you heal; that you're heading straight for D. If she turns around, you could possibly "consider" R, but you won't make any promises. Make her understand what it's like to lose her husband for cheating.

Give it a few weeks. Wait and see if that metaphoric slap in the face, changes her distorted reality, and whether she's even capable of genuine remorse.


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## Thor

JP, sorry it turned out this way, but I'm not surprised.

In your state it may or may not matter to the divorce court that she cheated. If it does, and if you now have sex with her after her confession, the court may take that as de facto forgiveness on your part. Which could affect the divorce settlement greatly.

You need to consult with an atty immediately. Don't move out of your house, don't have sex with her, don't do anything until you talk to an atty.

Also, don't hesitate to use some time off from work if you need to. My chief pilot was very helpful and understanding. I had to miss a few trips over the span of several months.


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## sokillme

jetpilot37 said:


> Hello everyone. First of all I want to apologize for taking so long to respond. As you all predicted, my world imploded shortly after I got home from my last trip and last posted on here.
> She got careless, left an android tablet with no PW protection sitting in our dining room. I waited till she went to sleep then went through the tablet. Needless to say, I found plenty of concern. She was using anonymous phone apps to text the OM. At first I didn't understand who it was because she had the number listed under a male friend of ours name. This at first threw me. I photographed everything I found and decided on a plan. I made up a story that the OM had just called me to confess and make amends for sleeping with my wife. I said he sounded really drunk and wondered how he got my number. I used the name of a man I knew she had dated a couple times in the past and slept with prior to us meeting. There's a couple of men like that on her Facebook until he was already on my radar. And while going through her tablet I saw where she was obsessively looking at his Facebook page. Something told me then, that's your boy. So I went and woke her up as she was taking a nap it was late afternoon. I told her the above story that I had concocted, I acted very upset. She looks at me and says what did he say? She was trying to figure out an answer. I told her that this person had confessed to having a lot of sex with my wife and was trying to make amends. She said oh he is an absolute drunk and we only slept together once! I'll make this short and sweet. We talked for several hours she still has stuck to her guns that I was one time. And this was the only person in seven years that she slept with or had an affair with. I buy none of it except that she has slept with someone else. Initially I think the fixer in me, agreed to work through a counselor and I told her what I expected. But she has shown very little remorse with the exception of the first night. This reaction has amaze me. I have been unable to eat, well much of anything, not had much sleep and quite frankly wish I would have just gone through with the divorce instead of investigating. I have access to her android phone and could run Dr Fone on it, but I just am having enough trouble with the details and I do know. Another note, the OM, ******* alcoholic, Who has been in a lot of legal trouble. His life is in a downward spiral. People that know me and know her and have seen pictures of him can't fathom it. When I found out it was him I was more concerned for her mental state that she would choose to be with someone like that. She also confessed to abusing prescription medications as well. She also was very obsessed with him -there's a lot I don't know and like I said I just don't really want to know. I sincerely want to thank everyone on here for their input, you all have been very helpful. Once again I apologize for the delay in getting back. Two weeks later I'm just now able to function and somewhat of a normal manner.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So why not just divorce her. Staying with someone like this is not a path to happiness. Seriously she deserves a red-neck in a death spiral. Women like her are a dime a dozen. Not someone to be prized. You can do so much better. Being alone is better, especially with your job and lifestyle. You will never trust her again.


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## Ursula

Yikes, so sorry to read the conclusion to this, but can't say that I'm surprised.


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## browser

jetpilot37 said:


> Sorry for the grammar mistakes, I use a Dictaphone


Try using your finger, it works much better.

Figured you could use a laugh..


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## phillybeffandswiss

jetpilot37 said:


> Another note, the OM, ******* alcoholic, Who has been in a lot of legal trouble. His life is in a downward spiral. People that know me and know her and have seen pictures of him can't fathom it. When I found out it was him I was more concerned for her mental state that she would choose to be with someone like that.


Let this part go. If you read enough threads, I've been here too long, it isn't like the movies or what betrayed people want to happen. I'm not going to make up percentages, but I've read here and witnessed a few times in real life, affair partners are rarely equal, let alone better, than the betrayed party. Oh and do what you feel is right, but don't let the drugs become your crutch for her affair. This isn't a new behavior, it existed when you met.


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## jetpilot37

sokillme said:


> So why not just divorce her. Staying with someone like this is not a path to happiness. Seriously she deserves a red-neck in a death spiral. Women like her are a dime a dozen. Not someone to be prized. You can do so much better. Being alone is better, especially with your job and lifestyle. You will never trust her again.




I suppose you read something into what I said that made you think I was staying with her. I'm pretty paranoid about sharing to much on forums. I'm doing the right thing for my life believe me. 


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## sokillme

jetpilot37 said:


> I suppose you read something into what I said that made you think I was staying with her. I'm pretty paranoid about sharing to much on forums. I'm doing the right thing for my life believe me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wasn't sure so many are willing to accept so little. Good to here. Get in shape play up the pilot angle keep the uniform on and you will do well. Sadly this is life. Some people are just ****ty.


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## jetpilot37

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Let this part go. If you read enough threads, I've been here too long, it isn't like the movies or what betrayed people want to happen. I'm not going to make up percentages, but I've read here and witnessed a few times in real life, affair partners are rarely equal, let alone better, than the betrayed party. Oh and do what you feel is right, but don't let the drugs become your crutch for her affair. This isn't a new behavior, it existed when you met.




Totally agree


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## TAMAT

jetpilot,

Sometimes when a a spouse feels inferior they seem to cheat with someone they can feel superior to.

Tamat


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## Tatsuhiko

jetpilot37 said:


> ... quite frankly wish I would have just gone through with the divorce instead of investigating...


You played this right, jetpilot. If you'd started the divorce based on your suspicions alone, she would have wiped every device clean and taken the affair underground. Whether you decided to stay or go, you would have spent the rest of your life wondering if you'd made the right decision. Truth is always your friend. Go find a woman worthy of you--there are plenty.


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## bandit.45

I'm glad you came back. 

Well, no surprise to us here. She proved to you what we all thought she was: a remorseless, lying, entitled gold-digger. 

Toss her. File for divorce.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Tatsuhiko said:


> You played this right, jetpilot. If you'd started the divorce based on your suspicions alone, she would have wiped every device clean and taken the affair underground. Whether you decided to stay or go, you would have spent the rest of your life wondering if you'd made the right decision. Truth is always your friend. Go find a woman worthy of you--there are plenty.


Also, again too much reading, hindsight makes you think you didn't want to know. Truth is, if you didn't know you'd still be hanging on. Also, we have many a spouse in reconciliation or divorce who still wonder if they did the right thing when they don't have enough information.


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## notmyrealname4

So, do airline pilots' wives cheat on them more because he's gone all the time?

Or, do airline pilots happen to find cheater type personalities more attractive?


Doesn't matter. But look at it this way, OP, you have a great career. Must be incredible.


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## Thor

notmyrealname4 said:


> So, do airline pilots' wives cheat on them more because he's gone all the time?
> 
> Or, do airline pilots happen to find cheater type personalities more attractive?


Excellent questions, and I think it may be a combination of factors.

First, it may depend on when they met, before he was at an airline or after. If before, she may have envisioned something very different than what it turns out to be. Pay is very low for quite a few years. I've seen how young wives think they're getting into something with lots of leisure travel, adventure, and money for them. Reality is a lot different! Especially when junior, the pilot is away a lot, and without any predictability when working on call. Money is very tight. Whatever the psychology is, being left alone to tend to the house, kids, pets, pay the bills, etc combined with him not being there physically to spend time with seems to cause problems. Toss in some resentment at the low quality of life for the wife, and she can be in a bad frame of mind.

If they meet after he is in the airline then there are a variety scenarios. One is the wife is a cheater by nature and she is happy to marry a pilot. He misses the red flags before the wedding. This woman is the kind who can be happy in her marriage while enjoying playing just for fun with others. Another one I've seen is two crew marrying each other. If they have kids they tend to bid opposite schedules so that someone is always home with the kids. Thus the spouses don't spend much time at all together. Lots of problems naturally with that arrangement.


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## WorkingWife

TAMAT said:


> jetpilot,
> 
> Sometimes when a a spouse feels inferior they seem to cheat with someone they can feel superior to.
> 
> Tamat


And also, they're *cheating*. How high a quality person are they going to find to participate?


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## notmyrealname4

@Thor

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

I didn't know about the early struggles in a pilot's career. I figured most of them are ex-military (used to lower pay), but I thought commercial careers were always lucrative.

But I also have the impression that pilots are drawn to excitement. Pretty obvious, no big mystery there.

And are therefore attracted to "exciting" women. Women who sizzle sexually are probably exciting to be with, have lots of "confidence", and thoroughly enjoy the sexual admiration they get (from all men, not just their husband).


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## jetpilot37

notmyrealname4 said:


> So, do airline pilots' wives cheat on them more because he's gone all the time?
> 
> 
> 
> Or, do airline pilots happen to find cheater type personalities more attractive?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter. But look at it this way, OP, you have a great career. Must be incredible.




It's an amazing career! Thanks for the post. I would answer your question with this. Marriage is tough when your spouse is home every night. So having a spouse that travels as much as we do, is just another obstacle for the institution of marriage. I think someone has to be very dedicated to the concept of marriage to make it when their spouse is gone half the month. This is just my thoughts on that and I'm open to any other opinions but that sort of makes sense. In my situation, I married someone that was ten years younger. She grew up in a highly, highly dysfunctional family. Alcoholism, emotional abuse, and let's just say other abuse. Knowing this I proceeded anyway. The problem wasn't that she had those issues from her past, the problem was and still is that she's never acknowledged much less dealt with ANY of those issues. It is painfully obvious to me that all that stuff still affects her on a daily basis, but she refuses to see that. So you take someone like that, get married, and then leave town half the month and what do you expect? If I ever trust someone again enough to get married, I will be more prepared to look at them from an objective point of can she handle my being gone? Or more importantly, will she have enough value toward marriage and integrity towards herself to stop and blow the whistle when and if she starts to struggle with feelings of wanting to stray? With my soon to be ex- it was a done deal from the get go. And unfortunately, I failed to see it and act accordingly. There's only so much I can play the victim here knowing what I knew about her. 


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## bandit.45

I see you said "soon to be ex". So I take it you will be seeing a lawyer?


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## Thor

notmyrealname4 said:


> @Thor
> 
> Thanks for the thoughtful response.
> 
> I didn't know about the early struggles in a pilot's career. I figured most of them are ex-military (used to lower pay), but I thought commercial careers were always lucrative.
> 
> But I also have the impression that pilots are drawn to excitement. Pretty obvious, no big mystery there.
> 
> And are therefore attracted to "exciting" women. Women who sizzle sexually are probably exciting to be with, have lots of "confidence", and thoroughly enjoy the sexual admiration they get (from all men, not just their husband).


Most are non-military. Most take on a ton of student debt, too. First year pay when I started 25 yrs ago at my first airline was $13k. No, a zero is not missing off of that number! When I upgraded to Captain at my second airline about 6 yrs later, I was making around $30k.

Due to a pilot shortage (gee, wonder why people steered away from the career....) they have improved first year pay, now in the range of $35k. But remember the pilot probably has $100k or more of student debt. By year 7-ish the pay will have doubled.

Once one gets on with one of the big boys the pay gets better. You don't make lateral moves in this industry, you go back to the bottom of the pay scale and seniority list when you change employers. First year pay around $65k, increasing about $10k to $15k per year as a rough estimate.

So, financially it is a pretty tough road. Timing is everything in this industry. 9/11 plus my age has erased my ability to ever go to the big boys. I work for a fine airline but am stuck on the lower pay scale. Young folks today starting out will find a fairly quick path to the big iron and the big paychecks if they can navigate the interview process with a bit of luck.


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## MattMatt

@jetpilot37 If you need to give your wife a notification that she has been found out, may I suggest fitting super slick furniture sliders under the wheels of the bed?:FIREdevil:


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## jetpilot37

MattMatt said:


> @jetpilot37 If you need to give your wife a notification that she has been found out, may I suggest fitting super slick furniture sliders under the wheels of the bed?:FIREdevil:




Oh trust me she knows. I walked out yesterday. 


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## MattMatt

jetpilot37 said:


> Oh trust me she knows. I walked out yesterday.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We will be here for you.


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## jetpilot37

Any suggestions on how to stop the constant obsessive thoughts of the two of them together?? Unfortunately, I asked for very specific sexual details. So there's that going around in my head, plus the fact that she refused to work on any kind of sex life with us, yet turns around and gives it to someone else. The humiliation that I have experienced over this is unimaginable. Any thoughts or suggestions would be great. I just want the ****ty committee to **** up. 


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## EleGirl

jetpilot37 said:


> Any suggestions on how to stop the constant obsessive thoughts of the two of them together?? Unfortunately, I asked for very specific sexual details. So there's that going around in my head, plus the fact that she refused to work on any kind of sex life with us, yet turns around and gives it to someone else. The humiliation that I have experienced over this is unimaginable. Any thoughts or suggestions would be great. I just want the ****ty committee to **** up.


The way I dealt with this was to redirect my thoughts. It might sound lame but it works.

Every time I would catch myself thinking things like this, I would change my thoughts to something that made me feel good... like remembering walking on the beach with the water on feet, a breeze and the warm sun. Basically you train your brain to not think those thoughts.


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## sokillme

jetpilot37 said:


> Any suggestions on how to stop the constant obsessive thoughts of the two of them together?? Unfortunately, I asked for very specific sexual details. So there's that going around in my head, plus the fact that she refused to work on any kind of sex life with us, yet turns around and gives it to someone else. The humiliation that I have experienced over this is unimaginable. Any thoughts or suggestions would be great. I just want the ****ty committee to **** up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


See it for who she is. She is broken. Doesn't mean someone else won't give you the sex you want. Seriously what is the matter with a person who give more to the person who doesn't do **** for them but ego boosting then the one who builds a life with them. Just logically you can see she is screwed up. 

Another way to see it though it is hard at first is maybe you didn't do it for her. OK then why did she marry you? How unfair was that to you? Just because you didn't do it for her doesn't mean you won't do it for a whole host of others. Just get in shape if you are not and make yourself desirable for someone else. Again not everyone does it for every person, there is no crime in that. But marrying a person who doesn't do it for you is a damn shame, and a terrible thing to do to a person. 

Get this stuff logically and emotionally you will catch up. Just remember there is probably plenty of women out there who will give you the passionate sex you seek. You just picked a lemon.

None of that takes away the awful betrayal of cheating. That one has no logic to help you except to say she is a bad person and unworthy of your love.


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## TX-SC

Although it sucks, the mind movies can serve the purpose of solidifying your anger at what she did and your resolve to divorce. Any time you think of R, just think about them in YOUR bed and what they did.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Drumstick

I've heard that EMDR therapy is supposed to be helpful overcoming mind movies. Might be something to look into.


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## jetpilot37

sokillme said:


> See it for who she is. She is broken. Doesn't mean someone else won't give you the sex you want. Seriously what is the matter with a person who give more to the person who doesn't do **** for them but ego boosting then the one who builds a life with them. Just logically you can see she is screwed up.
> 
> Another way to see it though it is hard at first is maybe you didn't do it for her. OK then why did she marry you? How unfair was that to you? Just because you didn't do it for her doesn't mean you won't do it for a whole host of others. Just get in shape if you are not and make yourself desirable for someone else. Again not everyone does it for every person, there is no crime in that. But marrying a person who doesn't do it for you is a damn shame, and a terrible thing to do to a person.
> 
> Get this stuff logically and emotionally you will catch up. Just remember there is probably plenty of women out there who will give you the passionate sex you seek. You just picked a lemon.
> 
> None of that takes away the awful betrayal of cheating. That one has no logic to help you except to say she is a bad person and unworthy of your love.




She and I had "off the chart" sex for the first two years of our relationship. Once I proposed and we stated planning our wedding, she started pushing back. This got progressively worse into our marriage to the point that I got tired of the rejection and just shut down on her in that department. She claims that after hormone therapy, but over the past 2 Years Her Dr. has come back substantially. By this point I was already done and I just didn't believe what she was telling me. Plus she had put on close to 100 pounds, which just changed the dynamics of sex. It made sex cumbersome and uncomfortable on the rare occasions we did sleep together. Here's an article about the effects of childhood sexual trauma on marriage and adult relationships. It's actually quite fascinating.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6287636


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## jetpilot37

EleGirl said:


> The way I dealt with this was to redirect my thoughts. It might sound lame but it works.
> 
> 
> 
> Every time I would catch myself thinking things like this, I would change my thoughts to something that made me feel good... like remembering walking on the beach with the water on feet, a breeze and the warm sun. Basically you train your brain to not think those thoughts.




I will give this a try. Thank you. 


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## sokillme

jetpilot37 said:


> She and I had "off the chart" sex for the first two years of our relationship. Once I proposed and we stated planning our wedding, she started pushing back. This got progressively worse into our marriage to the point that I got tired of the rejection and just shut down on her in that department. She claims that after hormone therapy, but over the past 2 Years Her Dr. has come back substantially. By this point I was already done and I just didn't believe what she was telling me. Plus she had put on close to 100 pounds, which just changed the dynamics of sex. It made sex cumbersome and uncomfortable on the rare occasions we did sleep together. Here's an article about the effects of childhood sexual trauma on marriage and adult relationships. It's actually quite fascinating.
> 
> How to Understand Your Partner's (Or Your Own) Sexual Abuse History | The Huffington Post
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah so I don't see how you can see this as a rejection of you personally. It's not a reflection of your sexual prowess. She was always attracted to you she is just screwed up. Man there are so many of these stories, the whole thing now a days seem like hit or miss. I think in this case you just missed. 

People are ****ty. Things end. Accept those two things and move on.


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## Bibi1031

Well now you know what to do if ever your bed starts walkin, you simply stop talkin and don't let it block the door on its way out.:grin2:

Sorry, I just couldn't help it with the title you put on this thread. 

I am truly sorry for what transpired, but it really was not a surprise. Just because it wasn't a surprise doesn't mean reality doesn't hurt though. I went through that uneasiness for six months before I finally found out the truth about my X's affair. My gut would not let me be. I knew something was wrong, reality was just a huge blow none the less.


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## aine

Thor said:


> Excellent questions, and I think it may be a combination of factors.
> 
> First, it may depend on when they met, before he was at an airline or after. If before, she may have envisioned something very different than what it turns out to be. Pay is very low for quite a few years. I've seen how young wives think they're getting into something with lots of leisure travel, adventure, and money for them. Reality is a lot different! Especially when junior, the pilot is away a lot, and without any predictability when working on call. Money is very tight. Whatever the psychology is, being left alone to tend to the house, kids, pets, pay the bills, etc combined with him not being there physically to spend time with seems to cause problems. Toss in some resentment at the low quality of life for the wife, and she can be in a bad frame of mind.
> 
> If they meet after he is in the airline then there are a variety scenarios. One is the wife is a cheater by nature and she is happy to marry a pilot. He misses the red flags before the wedding. This woman is the kind who can be happy in her marriage while enjoying playing just for fun with others. Another one I've seen is two crew marrying each other. If they have kids they tend to bid opposite schedules so that someone is always home with the kids. Thus the spouses don't spend much time at all together. Lots of problems naturally with that arrangement.


i use to hear that marrying a pilot was not a good thing to do as they were likely to cheat with all the young attractive flesh around them on flights all over the place (air hostesses)!


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## aine

jetpilot37 said:


> She and I had "off the chart" sex for the first two years of our relationship. Once I proposed and we stated planning our wedding, she started pushing back. This got progressively worse into our marriage to the point that I got tired of the rejection and just shut down on her in that department. She claims that after hormone therapy, but over the past 2 Years Her Dr. has come back substantially. By this point I was already done and I just didn't believe what she was telling me. Plus she had put on close to 100 pounds, which just changed the dynamics of sex. It made sex cumbersome and uncomfortable on the rare occasions we did sleep together. Here's an article about the effects of childhood sexual trauma on marriage and adult relationships. It's actually quite fascinating.
> 
> How to Understand Your Partner's (Or Your Own) Sexual Abuse History | The Huffington Post
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


With respect to that article, it seemed to focus on women with CSA in their past. I wonder is it different for men, I would assume so?


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## farsidejunky

@Uptown.

Jetpilot, it is not uncommon for those who were victims of CSA to shut off the spigot once they get married. In their subconscious minds, when you become married, you are no longer safe. This is especially true when the abuser was a family member.


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## Blacksmith01

jetpilot37 said:


> Any suggestions on how to stop the constant obsessive thoughts of the two of them together?? Unfortunately, I asked for very specific sexual details. So there's that going around in my head, plus the fact that she refused to work on any kind of sex life with us, yet turns around and gives it to someone else. The humiliation that I have experienced over this is unimaginable. Any thoughts or suggestions would be great. I just want the ****ty committee to **** up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Time. Time is the best answer. You have to understand that it was never you. It is all on her. You could have been the best damn husband and F'ed like a porn star and this still would have happened. It's time to take her off that pedestal that she never belonged on in the first place. You need to find the humor in the fact that she had a $1mil and pissed it all away over a penny.


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## Blacksmith01

aine said:


> i use to hear that marrying a pilot was not a good thing to do as they were likely to cheat with all the young attractive flesh around them on flights all over the place (air hostesses)!


Have you flown lately? The last few times I have there was no young flesh around. Sure they looked nice but it was just bondo and fresh paint. If you looked a little harder you could tell that had been around the block a few times to many.


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## bandit.45

jetpilot37 said:


> Any suggestions on how to stop the constant obsessive thoughts of the two of them together?? Unfortunately, I asked for very specific sexual details. So there's that going around in my head, plus the fact that she refused to work on any kind of sex life with us, yet turns around and gives it to someone else. The humiliation that I have experienced over this is unimaginable. Any thoughts or suggestions would be great. I just want the ****ty committee to **** up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Get into counseling with a PTSD specialist. As s pilot you should have access to some good ones. Inquire about EMDR therapy. From what I have read it is extremely effective in the treatment of trauma. So ask about that and give it a try. 

Like others have said, start retraining your brain. You got royally played by a seasoned user and gold digger. She was never who you thought she was. Make sure her family and yours are fully informed as to what she did. 

Other than that, you just have to push through it. Your psyche and body must process the pain, so just let it process. Let go of the control. You cannot control your healing. All you can do is eat right, exercise, get as much sleep as you can and go to therapy. It's all you can do.


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## bandit.45

Blacksmith01 said:


> Have you flown lately? The last few times I have there was no young flesh around. Sure they looked nice but it was just bondo and fresh paint. If you looked a little harder you could tell that had been around the block a few times to many.


I'm convinced United Airlines recruits its attendants from rest homes.


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## Malaise

farsidejunky said:


> @Uptown.
> 
> Jetpilot, it is not uncommon for those who were victims of CSA to shut off the spigot once they get married. In their subconscious minds, when you become married, you are no longer safe. This is especially true when the abuser was a family member.


QFT


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## MattMatt

jetpilot37 said:


> Any suggestions on how to stop the constant obsessive thoughts of the two of them together?? Unfortunately, I asked for very specific sexual details. So there's that going around in my head, plus the fact that she refused to work on any kind of sex life with us, yet turns around and gives it to someone else. The humiliation that I have experienced over this is unimaginable. Any thoughts or suggestions would be great. I just want the ****ty committee to **** up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I can see that my decision to not ask for any details of my wife's affair was the right one. 

However, there is an NLP technique that you can employ.

Whenever you see a mind movie of them having sex imagine them doing it to this music:-






That technique helped cure my long standing fear of spiders, incidentally.

You can use other humorous tunes if you wish.

These links might also be of help

http://vencergt.com/wp-content/uplo...ul_Useful_NLP_Techniques_Ive_Ever_Learned.pdf

How to: Use Basic NLP Techniques in Daily Life

The NLP Secret - NLP techniques explained


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## Uptown

@*Farsidejunky*, thanks for the callout.



jetpilot37 said:


> I think [PCOS] may be part of it, but the other issue is there's extensive abuse in her past. Definitely emotional and more than likely sexual. She can't recall any of her childhood however has admitted to remembering bits and pieces of sexual abuse. She says she doesn't remember who or what the circumstance or at what age.


Jetpilot, I agree with you and @*Farsidejunky* that the sexual and emotional abuse may be largely responsible, particularly if it occurred in early childhood. Granted, most abused children do not develop a full-blown personality disorder. Yet, childhood abuse -- especially sexual abuse done by a family member -- _greatly_ raises the risk for developing a PD. 

The PD most strongly associated with childhood sexual abuse is BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). See BPD and Childhood Sexual Abuse and the study, Child Sex Abuse and BPD. Also see Sexual Abuse and Psychiatric Disorders and the study, Psychological Consequences of Sexual Abuse. 

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join *Farside, *@*JohnA*, @*MattMatt* and the other respondents in discussing them with you. 

Learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Although these behavioral symptoms are easy to spot when you're living with the person, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid staying in a toxic marriage and, after the divorce, avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her.

As *Farside* notes, it is common for sexual activity to off a cliff right after the marriage -- if not right after the engagement -- whenever the spouse suffered sexual abuse in childhood. My exW, for example, had been sexually abused by her own father for years in childhood and she developed strong and persistent BPD traits.


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## bandit.45

In the end don't get stuck on the why's. She is what she is and she did what she did. Your first responsibility is to protect yourself, not to make her well.


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## MattMatt

@Uptown my wife is a CSA survivor. 

One of her male relatives was mysteriously attacked and mugged by an unknown assailant with a Stanley Knife. At least, that's how he explained the cut wounds to his face, hands and arms. By coincidence the sex assaults stopped at about the same time.


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## Chaparral

jetpilot37 said:


> Any suggestions on how to stop the constant obsessive thoughts of the two of them together?? Unfortunately, I asked for very specific sexual details. So there's that going around in my head, plus the fact that she refused to work on any kind of sex life with us, yet turns around and gives it to someone else. The humiliation that I have experienced over this is unimaginable. Any thoughts or suggestions would be great. I just want the ****ty committee to **** up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you read a lot of threads here, you will see this typical of women that were sexually abused while growing up.
They are probably into sex before marriage but gradually grow resentful to their husband and end up cutting back more and more. It's shocking how common that is here. Some can get psychiatric help but it takes a lot of therapy. They cheat because they get attention and they haven't yet projected their abuse onto their new partner.


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## Chaparral

As far as the man me movires, I think it was Morituri that said imagine them dressed as clowns. Other folks tried it and said it works lol.


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## jetpilot37

Blacksmith01 said:


> Time. Time is the best answer. You have to understand that it was never you. It is all on her. You could have been the best damn husband and F'ed like a porn star and this still would have happened. It's time to take her off that pedestal that she never belonged on in the first place. You need to find the humor in the fact that she had a $1mil and pissed it all away over a penny.




Wow! Thank you so much Blacksmith. I needed a little mental lift this morning. Thank you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jetpilot37

Chaparral said:


> As far as the man me movires, I think it was Morituri that said imagine them dressed as clowns. Other folks tried it and said it works lol.




I'll try anything thanks.


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## MattMatt

Chaparral said:


> As far as the man me movires, I think it was Morituri that said imagine them dressed as clowns. Other folks tried it and said it works lol.


Because Morituri had seen a counsellor who helped his patients with some NLP techniques. We talked about it at the time.

The amount of people who have been damaged by CSA is horrible. 

There was even a female member who was a cheater who denied that she had been a victim of CSA. But then later came back with, "unless you count what my cousin did to me."

It transpired that she, too, had been a victim of CSA.

Not every victim of CSA becomes a cheater, of course.

But the wickedness that people do lives on long, long after they are dead.


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## Thor

jetpilot37 said:


> Any suggestions on how to stop the constant obsessive thoughts of the two of them together?? Unfortunately, I asked for very specific sexual details. So there's that going around in my head, plus the fact that she refused to work on any kind of sex life with us, yet turns around and gives it to someone else. The humiliation that I have experienced over this is unimaginable. Any thoughts or suggestions would be great. I just want the ****ty committee to **** up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Gotta run back to the gate for one more turn, but I wanted to address this. I see at least one other has also responded.

CSA can badly and deeply damage the woman's adult sexuality. Remember, she learned about sex in a very dysfunctional way, and as a child. If you heard what happened to her it might sound fairly mild, yet it would have profound affects on her. The really horrible abuse would be far worse. She experienced whatever happened with the mindset of a child who did not understand sexuality at all. She may have felt some pleasure, or she may have felt some genuine affection for the abuser, which would be extremely confusing to the child. It may cause much guilt.

Adults may have told her to stfu because she'll be ostracized if people know what she did (note the blame being placed on her and making her seem bad). They may have told her she was dirty.

CSA victims typically either become very sexually reserved or promiscuous as teens. My wife was of the promiscuous variety. But when they get married they can have tremendous emotional difficulty with sex within the marriage. There are number of psychological reasons for the seeming contradictions, where abuse would lead them to promiscuous, and then later making sex in the marriage very very difficult. Yet it is a classic dynamic.

CSA is one of the top 3 factors correlated to women cheating in marriage, another odd contradiction but explainable by the psychology.

In a way, the husband by sheer definition is unable to be the partner she needs. You can take comfort in that what happened is not a reflection of your lack of masculinity or desirability.

I believe when my wife married me she had no idea how much her CSA had affected her, and even as a psychologist all these years later she still doesn't get it. She did not set out to hurt me, but she knowingly did things which by any objective measure were very wrong and very hurtful. Your wife is a deeply damaged child in some ways, which is her deficiency but not her fault.

Her choice to cheat was her fault, and for that she deserves the consequences including blame.


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## jetpilot37

Thor said:


> Gotta run back to the gate for one more turn, but I wanted to address this. I see at least one other has also responded.
> 
> 
> 
> CSA can badly and deeply damage the woman's adult sexuality. Remember, she learned about sex in a very dysfunctional way, and as a child. If you heard what happened to her it might sound fairly mild, yet it would have profound affects on her. The really horrible abuse would be far worse. She experienced whatever happened with the mindset of a child who did not understand sexuality at all. She may have felt some pleasure, or she may have felt some genuine affection for the abuser, which would be extremely confusing to the child. It may cause much guilt.
> 
> 
> 
> Adults may have told her to stfu because she'll be ostracized if people know what she did (note the blame being placed on her and making her seem bad). They may have told her she was dirty.
> 
> 
> 
> CSA victims typically either become very sexually reserved or promiscuous as teens. My wife was of the promiscuous variety. But when they get married they can have tremendous emotional difficulty with sex within the marriage. There are number of psychological reasons for the seeming contradictions, where abuse would lead them to promiscuous, and then later making sex in the marriage very very difficult. Yet it is a classic dynamic.
> 
> 
> 
> CSA is one of the top 3 factors correlated to women cheating in marriage, another odd contradiction but explainable by the psychology.
> 
> 
> 
> In a way, the husband by sheer definition is unable to be the partner she needs. You can take comfort in that what happened is not a reflection of your lack of masculinity or desirability.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe when my wife married me she had no idea how much her CSA had affected her, and even as a psychologist all these years later she still doesn't get it. She did not set out to hurt me, but she knowingly did things which by any objective measure were very wrong and very hurtful. Your wife is a deeply damaged child in some ways, which is her deficiency but not her fault.
> 
> 
> 
> Her choice to cheat was her fault, and for that she deserves the consequences including blame.




Thanks Captain


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## Mr Blunt

> By thor
> Your wife is a deeply damaged child in some ways, which is her deficiency but not her fault.


Pilot
It is a terrible tragedy that your wife was abused in her youth. I hope that she gets all the help that she can. I cannot think of a worse crime than abusing a child.

However, by what others have said, you cannot fix her. *You only have the option to save yourself and I hope you do that. *You are deeply hurt and feel very low and are questioning yourself. We BSs did the same thing but just know that you will get stronger and stronger as time goes by.

*No matter what the reasons are that your wife betrayed you, you are not the reason and you are a valuable man.* Make a decision to force all negative thoughts out of your mind and when you fail get back up and get ready to force the thoughts out in the future. Know that the hurt is making you question yourself; bet the real facts are that you are worthy. Get all the help that you can then use that help


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## eric1

Wait. She gained 100 pounds in just a few years?


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## jlg07

Jp, what has her reaction been since you left? Has she tried to contact you at all? Its a shame she is so damaged but the cheating is 100% on her. NOT you.


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## bandit.45

JP how are you doing?


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## jetpilot37

bandit.45 said:


> JP how are you doing?




Hey Bandit! I'm actually doing pretty well. I have filed for divorce I moved out and moved on. I have had to take time off from work just to get my head straight. 


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## bandit.45

So how is she reacting to the D?


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