# Wife intentionally withholding sex for 3 months



## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

I’ve recently been reading about dead bedrooms on a few sites and saw a mention of Talk About Marriage on a Reddit post and thought I’d come check this place out in case somebody here might be able to help.

I suppose you could say I’m experiencing what is the start of a dead bedroom, but it’s not really a typical “my wife just doesn’t want sex anymore” situation. She’s intentionally withholding sex now and what I thought would be a short, stubborn hold out has turned into almost 3 months of no sex. 

Just some quick background…I’m 42 and she’s 40. We celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary in June, but we’ve been together since high school. We had a baby when we were still in high school, I was 18 and she was 16. Totally unplanned and turned our worlds upside down but I think we can both agree that our son is the best thing that ever happened to us and despite how difficult it was at the time, I wouldn’t change how any of it happened now. 

Our son is 24 and married. 4 months ago he and his wife announced that they’re pregnant. So, I’m going to be a grandfather before my 43rd birthday. I’m happy for them. I mean, they did everything right, went to college, have good jobs now, but it’s taking about of getting used to thinking about neither my wife or I even being 45 yet and grandparents. Anyway, a few weeks after they announced the pregnancy my wife started subtly making mention of how much she missed having a baby around, how cute little kids are, how different it’d be if we were to do it again at our current ages. I figured she was just really looking forward to a grandchild - you know, somebody she could buy things for and play with and then hand back off to mom and dad at the end of the day. After a few weeks of the subtle hinting she asked me if I’d consider having another baby now. Apparently she regrets never having another (he’s our only child, fyi). Now, she feels at 40 this is the last chance. 

I was honest and told her no. I don’t want to start over with another baby in my 40s. Our kid is 24 years old! We didn’t have more children years ago when we were younger because we spent the first 10 years of his life just trying to get by and then to eventually catch up to our peers. It took us a little longer to finish college, to buy our first home, etc. but we got there eventually. Having a kid so young made us get serious about things like real jobs and motivated us to try to advance in our careers much quicker than we probably would have. My wife has gone back and gotten 2 more degrees over the years. Eventually once our son was about 10-12 we talked about it decided we were happy with the way things were and didn’t want to start over with a baby at that point. I’m proud to say that we worked so hard and planned so well that we’re now in a much better position than most of our friends our age AND while most of our friends still have young kids at home ours is grown and doing well and we are young enough to now be able to enjoy all that we’ve worked for. My wife has gone back and gotten 2 more degrees. To me, this should be our time to finally enjoy ourselves, to go on vacations just the two of us, to buy ourselves a few nice things, to have adult only time all the time! 

To my wife, I’m being a selfish asshole who won’t consider her feelings. She hasn’t been talking about having a baby for years or anything like that, mind you. She starts talking about it out of the blue and suddenly I’m the bad guy because I don’t want to have a baby now? 

And that’s how it started. Since then, she’s almost completely refused sex for 3 months straight. Before this, our sex life was good - often, spontaneous, varied, she initiated probably 30% of the time. There was a definitely big boost to our sex life about 4 years ago when our son was basically completely out of the house. My wife started working out more, taking more time for herself, and her libido really seemed to increase and I wasn’t about to complain. So this was all still going on until the baby talk. Now she just mopes and avoids most physical interactions with me. She still has a sex drive because she masturbates regularly. She tells me she’s doing it and is punishing me. The times where she has agreed to actual sex it seems to be going great but then she’ll ask if I’ll give her a baby or some similar comment and I say no and then she gets mad. A few times I’ve actually just played along with it so she wouldn’t get mad and stop right before we reach the best part, but anymore I don’t even want to have sex with her because she’s going to bring it up midway through the action and honestly it’s a total mood killer for me. 

So what started as just a stubborn “punishment” has turned into a 3 month holdout and I don’t know what to do. I’ve been honest - I’ve told her I don’t want a baby. I don’t want to divorce her over this, that seems ridiculous. I just don’t know how to get her to budge. I’m worried that this (her behavior as well as the overall lack of intimacy) is now doing serious damage to both our marriage and our sexual relationship.

Suggestions? How would YOU handle this?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Omg. I’m sorry to be rude but she is being a nutter butter. 

Seriously, sounds a little mid-life crisis-y. A new baby will not make her feel young. I had mine at 37 and I can tell you without question it makes you feel OLD. 

The sex strike is beyond childish and absurd. She’s wrecking your marriage, this is crazy destructive and will honestly end up eventually turning you off of her forever. 

I’m generally not a fan of ultimatums but this is a time when it makes sense. Either counseling or discussions and get back to your marriage or end it. Because what you have now is not a marriage, it’s a hostage situation.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Omg. I’m sorry to be rude but she is being a nutter butter.
> 
> Seriously, sounds a little mid-life crisis-y. A new baby will not make her feel young. I had mine at 37 and I can tell you without question it makes you feel OLD.
> 
> ...


You’re not being rude. This isn’t like her. Yes, she is definitely skilled at being stubborn but she normally doesn’t act like a juvenile over it. This is not typical behavior for her at all.

I’ve thought it was a bit mid-life crisis esq myself. I know that we have both talked about how we are happy for our son and his wife but that it feels very weird to think about being grandparents at our age. We laugh at it but perhaps it’s bothering her on a deeper level than she lets on. She says suddenly she just realized that she regrets not having anymore children and she blinked and suddenly she’s 40 and it’s “now or never” in her mind. She gets mad that I won’t consider it, that I don’t even want to discuss it. Look, I love our son more than anything in the world. I also love that he’s 24 and we successfully got him through life this far, though school, out in his own, and now we’re free! I have zero desire to have another child so why waste time discussing it or “considering” it. She says I’m the stubborn one since I don’t want to talk about it. I have told her my reasons, so I did talk about it. I won’t pretend to feel differently. What good will that do but get her hopes up?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Your wife has completely lost her mind. I’d remind her that she is doing damage to your marriage over a complete fantasy land notion of having a child too late in life.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

How many children to have and when to have them and stop having them is one of the biggest issues in a marriage. For so many years you were on the same page. I can see how that suddenly changing for you would be frustrating. 

But I can also see her point of view. I'm also 40 years old and can feel my biological clock winding down. This is a time in a woman's life when she knows she has to make a PERMANENT decision. There is no going back. If she doesn't have a baby in the next couple of years, she never will. Is she going through a mid-life crisis? Possibly. I can imagine how becoming a grandma at 40 would do that. 

But regardless of whether her decision to want another baby is well thought out or impulsive, it's still how she feels. And you are completely against her, denying her the one thing she's decided she wants so much. She wants to deny you the freedom and empty nest you value. The two of you are standing on opposite sides of a battle that neither of you is willing to budge on. You MUST discuss it, each of you open-mindedly, or you will forever damage your marriage. Each of you needs to try to see the situation from the other's point of view while gently making the case for your view. It is not fair for her to demand a baby. It is also not fair for you to unilaterally make the decision that she can't have one. It needs to be discussed until you come up with a JOINT decision.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

Get her a puppy instead. 

I agree with the others. She’s being irrational and extremely selfish. She’s acting like a child withholding sex from you. Mention to her your grandchild is going to be around and hopefully that will fill her (crazy) void of wanting a baby herself.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

It will be her hormones and making her all broody because of the grandchild. When my daughter was pregnant with my granddaughter I craved another baby so much. Once my grandchild was born the broodiness and wanting another baby disappeared altogether. Hormones can be weird. I never went on a sex ban though. Have a heart to heart with her and about all the things you will both do with your grandchild together. Take her shopping for things for the grandchild. Hopefully when the baby is born and in her arms the other feelings will disappear. Good luck.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I'd not want to stay married to a person who would intentionally withhold to deliberately punish like that. 

Now you know her true nature, and it's not love.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Melinda82 said:


> How many children to have and when to have them and stop having them is one of the biggest issues in a marriage. For so many years you were on the same page. I can see how that suddenly changing for you would be frustrating.
> 
> But I can also see her point of view. I'm also 40 years old and can feel my biological clock winding down. This is a time in a woman's life when she knows she has to make a PERMANENT decision. There is no going back. If she doesn't have a baby in the next couple of years, she never will. Is she going through a mid-life crisis? Possibly. I can imagine how becoming a grandma at 40 would do that.
> 
> But regardless of whether her decision to want another baby is well thought out or impulsive, it's still how she feels. And you are completely against her, denying her the one thing she's decided she wants so much. She wants to deny you the freedom and empty nest you value. The two of you are standing on opposite sides of a battle that neither of you is willing to budge on. You MUST discuss it, each of you open-mindedly, or you will forever damage your marriage. Each of you needs to try to see the situation from the other's point of view while gently making the case for your view. It is not fair for her to demand a baby. It is also not fair for you to unilaterally make the decision that she can't have one. It needs to be discussed until you come up with a JOINT decision.


Silly. After already deciding, and with a 24yo son, it's ridiculous to have a new baby at 40yo.

The decision was made long ago. The couple had a child early, responsibly approached life and worked to later benefit from early child bearing.

H is getting some own home empty nest time with W. He and she postponed having time alone as a couple and now can enjoy that time.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

She’s using sex as a weapon. That’s a deal breaker to me.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’ve recently been reading about dead bedrooms on a few sites and saw a mention of Talk About Marriage on a Reddit post and thought I’d come check this place out in case somebody here might be able to help.
> 
> I suppose you could say I’m experiencing what is the start of a dead bedroom, but it’s not really a typical “my wife just doesn’t want sex anymore” situation. She’s intentionally withholding sex now and what I thought would be a short, stubborn hold out has turned into almost 3 months of no sex.
> 
> ...


Hey bud sorry to hear such an issue happening. My wife and I started wanting to have child after about 10 years of marriage. I was in the Navy and always gone, so really pushed to hold off. Felt it wouldn't be fair to my child not to be there and to my wife to be basically a single mom. As my career was winding down, I would be retiring at store duty, I told her to stop birth control and we'd give it a shot. 
Well she got pregnant and had our daughter with her being 39 and me 42. I retired with an 18 month old daughter. Also his a good one, we celebrated our 18th anniversary with a 6 months old daughter! However, this was what we wanted. She has adding such dimension to our lives. She's now 20. I'm hitting 62. It was what we BOTH wanted! That's the important part. You have a very difficult decision to deal with. You are the only one who can figure what works for you. Life is full of surprises. Our plans can change by the minute. I say this, I only regret my daughter has never known me more "youthful". As a previous father I understand how this will make you feel old! We ain't getting any younger. Sit and talk calmly and lovingly with her not just about the joys, but remind her of long nights with no sleep, constant feeding, more laundry, illness and the clinging of an infant. We tend to romanticize the past and forget the realities of what is. This is gonna be tough. Be available emotionally and open minded. Best wishes.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Completely irresponsible and totally selfish to have a child at 40 (increased risk of genetic disorders) especially when you’re set to have an amazing life together traveling and such.
What hour wife is doing is really messed up. Maybe you should disappear for a while


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

I left my first wife and divorce her, exactly for the same reason... no sex for over three months. 

What she's doing should be a deal breaker for any man that self respect and dignity. To me that's an offense of the highest order.
If I were in your situation, I would ask her for the "we need to talk" and tell her we are either a couple or we are not, if you don't want to have sex anymore with me, then here are the divorce papers. Sign them and let's get this over with.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

CoffeeandTV said:


> You’re not being rude. This isn’t like her. Yes, she is definitely skilled at being stubborn but she normally doesn’t act like a juvenile over it. This is not typical behavior for her at all.
> 
> I’ve thought it was a bit mid-life crisis esq myself. I know that we have both talked about how we are happy for our son and his wife but that it feels very weird to think about being grandparents at our age. We laugh at it but perhaps it’s bothering her on a deeper level than she lets on. She says suddenly she just realized that she regrets not having anymore children and she blinked and suddenly she’s 40 and it’s “now or never” in her mind. She gets mad that I won’t consider it, that I don’t even want to discuss it. Look, I love our son more than anything in the world. I also love that he’s 24 and we successfully got him through life this far, though school, out in his own, and now we’re free! I have zero desire to have another child so why waste time discussing it or “considering” it. She says I’m the stubborn one since I don’t want to talk about it. I have told her my reasons, so I did talk about it. I won’t pretend to feel differently. What good will that do but get her hopes up?


Yes your wife is being childish with her strike. Not knowing your wife, some people just need to have a long pointless discussion that will not change any minds but to move on they need to have it. Perhaps thats your wife. 

Another thing for her to consider, the reality is after 40 the chances of her conceiving without fertility help is pretty low. One of my best friends is a fertility doc. Chances of conceiving naturally after 40 is about 5% per mensural cycle. Fertility treatments are very expensive and raising a kid is also way more expensive today than it was 20 years ago. 

If you have the discussion you have about 200 rational reasons to not have another baby, she has a case of mid-life baby fever. I also think there is a good chance she knows you're right and the fact that the window has really closed is more what she is mad about than you stating the obvious point that it's a bad idea.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

It’s not so much her desire to have another kid that is the issue - it’s her mean spiritedness in withholding sex because she thinks this will get you to change your mind. That she sees sex as a weapon is kind of sad. It’s opening up an entirely new view into who your wife is. She could be having a crisis but her withholding sex is very telling of her character.

When/if you go back to having sex, make sure you wear protection. I can see an “oops” situation happening.

My advice since you’re asking is to calmly discuss it with her and if she gets upset and starts shutting down the discussion, you should make it known that you’re not interested in having a sexless marriage. And that you both need to sort out where to go from here. My hope is she comes to her senses and apologizes to you for her treatment of you.

If not, you might have some other things to figure out.


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

Withholding sex for any reasons is a deal breaker IMHO. I stayed far too long in a sexless marriage myself. Don't allow this to go on like I did.

Tell your W straight up that you'll file for divorce if she insists on punishing you for not wanting a baby. It's not too late for either of you to start over. I wish I was your age again. I would be finding myself a woman that hasn't lost her mind wanting a baby at age 40. This makes no sense.

Yes, I think getting her a puppy would be a great alternative. Suggest that, MC, and go online and pay a small fee to prepare a separation agreement to present to her to show her that you are serious.

JMHO.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’ve recently been reading about dead bedrooms on a few sites and saw a mention of Talk About Marriage on a Reddit post and thought I’d come check this place out in case somebody here might be able to help.
> 
> I suppose you could say I’m experiencing what is the start of a dead bedroom, but it’s not really a typical “my wife just doesn’t want sex anymore” situation. She’s intentionally withholding sex now and what I thought would be a short, stubborn hold out has turned into almost 3 months of no sex.
> 
> ...


Real quick. Look, there are going to be lots of answers/ advice that will state no sex is a deal breaker and on and on. DIVORCE HER AND MOVE ON. Hogwash, it's not that simple. Divorce is just a means to an end, it fixes nothing between you two. It sounds to me by your writing that your lives were fine till this issue popped up. Nobody said a commitment would be easy. Good times and not so good times. Marriage should not be considered disposable for something that wasn't infidelity. Work together with love and figure it out.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Suggestions?


In the face of your wife’s withholding, I think you should feel free to immediately start sharing sex with other women.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


CoffeeandTV said:



Suggestions? How would YOU handle this?

Click to expand...

*The first thought that came to my mind is that if she DOES start having sex with you again, wear TWO condoms. And make sure you clean them out in the sink before throwing them out.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> The first thought that came to my mind is that if she DOES start having sex with you again, wear TWO condoms. And make sure you clean them out in the sink before throwing them out.


Because apparently that’s a real thing I didn’t believe in before. Nutter butter. 

It’s good advice though. Vascectomy time.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I was in a somewhat similar situation at 40 but instead of having a 24 year old out of the house, I had brand new baby and a 2 1/2 year old in the house (my wife was a few weeks shy of 37 at that time) But more on that below.

Mother Nature makes women want to squeeze in one more offspring before the baby making factory shuts down. It's a biological and instinctive thing. Mother Nature is whispering in a woman's ear that she needs to have one more child while she can in case the next drought, famine or epidemic kills off the ones she already has. Pre menopause is probably playing a role here too. She may be getting some signs or symptoms of impending menopause and is making one last Hail Mary play to squeeze in one more before her reproductive system closes up shop. 

At least one of you has to be rational here. 

But more importantly, you have a right to your own fertility and your own reproductive self determinism. 

I was in a some what similar situation in that we had a brand new baby and a 2 1/2 year old at 37/40. 

There was no way I wanted any more at that point in my life. But my wife, like yours, was getting the pre menopausal Baby Rabies and wanted more even though both pregnancies were disasters and both babies were premature and under weight with the youngest being in NICU in an isolette and on CPAP and tube feedings for 3 weeks. 

I couldn't go through that again and I knew i did not want any more (I wasn't that hip on having any, but it was just the thing you did back then) The bottom line is I couldn't let her irrational instincts to bear more offspring ruin my life or my existing kids lives and took responsibility for my own reproductivity. I had a vasectomy. 

On a logical, rational level, my wife agreed and consented. But on the emotional and instinctual level, she was heart broken. 

I knew that there was a very possibility that she would be resentful and bitter enough that it would destroy our relationship and I knew that she could very easily leave me and find some other sap that would have more kids with her. 

When I weighed the odds and the risks and benefits, I realised that I would rather she leave me and divorce me and have kids with another man and have him deal with the complicated and high risk pregnancies and premature babies and the NICUs and more diaper changes and cleaned up puke than ME going through all of that again. 

I came to the conclusion I would rather divorce and have my heart broken into a million pieces than go through that again and I made the conscious choice to have my plumbing disconnected even though I knew what ramifications that would have. 

You are going to have to make your own choice regarding your own reproductivity. Each choice will have risks and benefits and ramifications. 

Cont.....


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> Completely irresponsible and totally selfish to have a child at 40 (increased risk of genetic disorders), especially when you’re set to have an amazing life together traveling and such.
> What hour wife is doing is really messed up.


By about 1 or 2 percentage points. It's still a pretty small risk. I wouldn't call someone selfish or irresponsible for wanting a baby at 40. 

I do think she's in the wrong, simply because OP doesn't want another one. I don't have any advice on this one. My brother and sister-in-law had a very similar situation. He didn't want kids. She, at 38, decided she did. They have a three-year-old now.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*



Mother Nature makes women want to squeeze in one more offspring before the baby making factory shuts down. It's a biological and instinctive thing.

Click to expand...

*LOL. No she doesn't. She may have made YOUR wife do it, but she completely avoided me. 

It's always amazed me that ANY woman wants to be changing diapers and dealing with toddlers in their mid 40's. I was 44 when my son went off to college. I cried my eyes out because I knew our lives were changing and would never be the same again now that he had officially moved out of the house.

But I couldn't even *imagine* starting all over again with a baby. No way.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> It's always amazed me that ANY woman wants to be changing diapers and dealing with toddlers in their mid 40's. I was 44 when my son went off to college. I cried my eyes out because I knew our lives were changing and would never be the same again now that he had officially moved out of the house.
> 
> But I couldn't even *imagine* starting all over again with a baby. No way.


The grandkids as babies were just enough of remember when..... baby times.

They're like 4 and 6 now, and great kids. We're often together, enough to again fill the remember when tank.

The happiness of seeing grands growing up now provides just the right amount of kid centered play times.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> You are going to have to make your own choice regarding your own reproductivity. Each choice will have risks and benefits and ramifications.
> 
> Cont.....


This is a serious crossroads in not only your marriage, but your life as a whole as well. 

You are going to have to decide which course is best, or more realistically - less bad. You are going to have to take responsibility and agency for your own fertility reproductive rights. 

Yes men have reproductive rights too. We have protests in the street over women's reproductive rights, but men have rights to their own reproductive determinism as well. And since we don't have people marching and protesting in the streets for us, we have to take our reproductive rights into our own hands. 

She may very well become so resentful and embittered by this that it destroys your marriage. She is young enough that she could walk out of the house and hit up the first guy that walks by and ask him if he wants to have sex and knock her up. (most guys will at least hook up with her and then keep their fingers crossed she doesn't get knocked up) 

Those are very real risks and could easily happen. 

You have to weigh that against the potential risks of complicated pregnacy, genetic and birth defects, raising a special needs child etc as well as the known certainty of diapers, baby puke, being up at night, doctor appointments, daycare if she works, a stressed out exhausted 40 year old mom if she doesn't, starting school again, parent-teacher conferences again and on and on and on and on all over again but only this time you are going to be a middle aged man. 

(to be fair, in some ways it's better to be a middle aged man than a young man. I some how managed to survive fatherhood as a middle aged man. I would not have survived it as a young man) 

You have to decide which scenario you can live with the best. 

Cont....


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Unlike most others here I can fully understand why she wants another baby. I would never have wanted just one child and because I had my first 2 so young I also had a third. 
40 isn't too old to have another child despite what some here say, it's very common for
women of that age to have children now. My half brother was born when his mum was 41. I have a friend who had twin boys at age 40. Another family member had a child at 39. It's pretty normal these days. 
However it's hard to see how this will be solved because she is so desperate and you are so adamant. Maybe MC will help?

Oh and btw it's not so uncommon to be a grandparent in your 40's. A good friend if mine had 4 grandchildren in her 40's.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Because apparently that’s a real thing I didn’t believe in before. Nutter butter.
> 
> It’s good advice though. Vascectomy time.


Vasectomy time, I'd agree.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Tough situation, OP..

While sure, she can have her desires....I just don't get it...You guys managed almost the impossible...Most in your situation would have split up by the time you were 20...You guys managed to do it...

The frustrating thing about women and kids, is I think a lot of them don't think this thorough and just want what the other woman has...This situation very similar to someone very close to me, she won and he caved, now they are divorced, and I have no doubt it was over this exact situation, and it didn't have to be that way...They already had 2 wonderful kids...

I also think people over estimate their own patience and stamina at that age...You think you can pull it off, but at the end of the day, you won't be able to, and I am saying this as someone that is more fit and active than most my age...When my daughter was younger, she had a few friends that had older parents...We went on a few family vacations, and I was the only one capable of keeping up with the kids...All the other parents did was sit on the sidelines and watch...You think you feel great at 42, when you hit late 40's and early 50's your stamina and energy level may fall off horribly, just at the same time your body is telling you to slow down...We won't even talk about menopause and all the crap that comes along with that..it doesn't care that you have a kid to chase around...you have to be on your A game every moment...

My advice to the OP, is DO NOT GIVE IN!!!..She wants to act like a petulant child and close her legs, so be it...She'll only be poking a hole in her own lifeboat at the end.. I'm not for tit for tat stuff, but maybe you do the same to her with some other thing or task...Where it ends is anyone's guess, she may eventually come to her senses. But who knows.?? She may wind up tortuously resenting you forever over this...Be prepared....


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

what I will caution you is do not make the decision to have another child on the fact that you will be able to have sex with her again. 

She may bang you like a porn star for a few nights worth of baby sex. 

But once she's actually pregnant and especially once the baby comes, your sex life will officially end. 

She continued to have sex with you after your son because she was still a very young, fertile woman. 

After she gives birth at 41, she will be exhausted and overwhelmed and resentful towards you that you aren't helping her enough. (Note: no matter how much of a Wonder Dad you are, you will never be a Co-Mother and will never be able to help 'enough' ) 

Then she will go into full blown menopause and you will be fortunate if she is accommodating enough to give you a purely mechanical handjob while she unwinds by watching reruns of Grey's Anatomy on Netflix. 

If sex is your motivating factor, as long as you haven't let yourself go, you will have better luck finding another woman than getting anywhere with a peri-menopausal woman in her 40s with a new born baby. 

Especially a woman that intentionally and overtly weaponizes sex to punish you when she isn't getting what she wants.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

BlueWoman said:


> By about 1 or 2 percentage points. It's still a pretty small risk. I wouldn't call someone selfish or irresponsible for wanting a baby at 40.
> 
> I do think she's in the wrong, simply because OP doesn't want another one. I don't have any advice on this one. My brother and sister-in-law had a very similar situation. He didn't want kids. She, at 38, decided she did. They have a three-year-old now.


I’m disagreeing with the 1 or 2 points thing, but agree with your post if it weren’t for one thing: they already have a child!!!!! This is not a woman that has no kids like your bro in law.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> The first thought that came to my mind is that if she DOES start having sex with you again, wear TWO condoms. And make sure you clean them out in the sink before throwing them out.


LOL. Best answer to OP. He better do as @She'sStillGotIt says or it's change nappies time.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Keep in mind that when the battle lines are drawn, one wins and one loses. And the one who loses often carries a lot of resentment. Sometimes permanently.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Unlike most others here I can fully understand why she wants another baby. I would never have wanted just one child and because I had my first 2 so young I also had a third.
> 40 isn't too old to have another child despite what some here say, it's very common for
> women of that age to have children now. My half brother was born when his mum was 41. I have a friend who had twin boys at age 40. Another family member had a child at 39. It's pretty normal these days.
> However it's hard to see how this will be solved because she is so desperate and you are so adamant. Maybe MC will help?
> ...


I would agree with you IF he wanted to have another child as well. 

However he doesn't. 

I know this is hard for some to grasp, but men have reproductive rights as well and men also have the right to not have their lives turned upside down and forced into a lifestyle that they do not want. 

Does his strong resistance to having another child run the risk of alienating her and possibly destroying their marriage? Yes it does. 

So he will need to weigh the risks and benefits and determine which path he can live with the best.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Unlike most others here I can fully understand why she wants another baby.


I don't think people are not understanding why she'd want another baby. But bottom line parenting is a two-person deal. No child deserves to have a parent that didn't want them, and it's a 20+ year commitment. She does not have the right to force him to father another child because she has the baby fuzzies.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Vasectomy time, I'd agree.


Yep... she might resume your sex life with just one aim... you know which one...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I understand the urge... I was literally pestered for babies by my wife, until I got a vasectomy...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I'm not trying to politicize this but it needs to be pointed out that people protest in the streets and bomb clinics and threaten the lives of lawmakers and supreme court justices over women's reproductive rights and over women's rights to choose whether they will be parents or not. 

But men also have agency over their reproductive rights as well. If we are going to riot in the streets and threaten public officials over a woman's right to choose, should we not recognize that men should have a basic right to not turn their lives upside down and not be pressured into a lifestyle and responsibilities that they do not wish to have. 

I realize that the legalities are fundamentally different when we are talking about a fetus that is already in existence. 

But there is an underlying social narrative that basically tells men to suck it up, forget about his childish interests, pick up another part time job to pay for it and get up in the middle of the night for feedings too. 

The OP's wife has the right to want another child. She has the right to try to have another one. 

But the OP also has the right to put babies and diapers and braces behind him. 

Yes, it may spell the end of the marriage. But it is his right to choose which path he would rather go down.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Has your wife ever acted this way before when she didn’t get her way, OP? Not necessarily withholding sex but maybe retaliating in another way?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Unfortunately, I can only see this going in one direction.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Wow, a lot of responses since I went to sleep last night. I don’t have time to respond right now but will do so later.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Suggestions? How would YOU handle this?


You have a wife who is FAITHFUL and have worked hard to build her life with you, right? She is also keeping herself in good shape by working out [and] have taken care of your physical needs, right? The comfortable lifestyle that you might have achieved by now was made possible by her contributions and sacrifices in the mix, right?

Do you want to ruin your good marriage at this stage? Do you want to loose a good woman in your life at this stage?

It is NOT wise to take good things in your life for granted, bro.

_"Now, she feels at 40 this is the last chance."_

On one hand, her biological clock is ticking (this matter is beyond her control). On the other hand, she is your wife. It is logical for her to push you to give her what she wants. She wants to do this the right way like a wife is supposed to. But she is stuck between the rock and a hard place because of your rejection.

You should NOT put her in this situation in my view.

This:

_"To me, this should be our time to finally enjoy ourselves, to go on vacations just the two of us, to buy ourselves a few nice things, to have adult only time all the time!"

- _is possible with a kid as well. If you can afford things, you can afford a nanny as well.

Sit down with her and discuss your concerns with her. Tell her that you want to go on vacations with her and enjoy your life with her at home and otherwise. Tell her what kind of [adult only time] you wish to have with her. Then [ask her] that IF you will have another kid with her then HOW she will accommodate your wishes in the mix. Throw the ball in her court.

Discuss this matter [at length] with your wife and DRAW A PLAN for HOW you two will be able to enjoy your life together as well.

-----

My situation is somewhat similar to yours. 

I am 38 and my wife is 36. I have a wonderful daughter with my wife (the best thing that ever happened to "us"). WE have also worked hard to build our lives and are looking forward to ENJOY our 40s as a couple. But I have told my wife that WE should have [another baby] as well. WE will try for it soon.

A child will not take away from your happiness when you are well-settled in your life.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Your wife has weaponized sex and is damaging your marriage.

Move into a different room, stop hanging out with her, stop sharing meals, get a separate bank account.

Also, check phone bill to ensure this is not some elaborate excuse she is making up to hide a boyfriend that she doesn't want to cheat on.

PS: She completely takes you for granted.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Let’s review the risk / reward chart for babies and pets


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> You have a wife who is FAITHFUL and have worked hard to build her life with you, right? She is also keeping herself in good shape by working out [and] have taken care of your physical needs, right? The comfortable lifestyle that you might have achieved by now was made possible by her contributions and sacrifices in the mix, right?
> 
> Do you want to ruin your good marriage at this stage? Do you want to loose a good woman in your life at this stage?
> 
> ...


wow! This is exactly what I was talking about.

men just suck it up. Give the little lady another human being if she wants one. Forget about your silly and childish interests and wants and needs. All you gotta do is pick up another 20-30 hours a week to help pay for it all and get up with her at night for feedings and changing s and when you do get home from your second or third job at 10 pm, take over the child care and household chores for awhile so she can get off her feet for awhile. Motorcycles are silly and you went hunting and fishing with your goofy buddies last year.

but let’s flip this around and see what a good idea of another baby at 40 is if we reverse genders - Look I know you’re 40 and have spent your entire adult life raising other kids and you have put your wants and dreams on hold to raise a family and now you have finally got them into adulthood and can start doing the things you’ve wanted for a long time.

But your husband is a good man and has been very supportive and a good provider. Yes he’s being a little pissy now and is denying you live and affection but if you’d just sit down and talk about this, you’d see that it’s just 9 months of bloating and back labor and a statistically greater chance of complications and birth defects and a life time of dealing with special needs, but he really wants this and you would be selfish for denying him to play catch in the yard just because you feel that you’ve already lived your life and want to have a life of your own now.

how well do ya think telling a 40 year old mother that would go over?? 😳


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

To me the bigger issue here is your wife using sex as a weapon to get what she wants. If you don't want another child then absolutely don't have one. Your wife is being a selfish, immature brat. I would sit her down and let her know that her using sex as a weapon is a deal breaker, and if that is how she want to live the rest of her life, then you will file for divorce. Be prepared to follow through with it. It's completely stupid for her to throw away a good marriage over this, but that is her choice.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Melinda82 said:


> It is not fair for her to demand a baby. It is also not fair for you to unilaterally make the decision that she can't have one. It needs to be discussed until you come up with a JOINT decision.


I don’t see it as me unilaterally making the decision that she can’t have a baby. I’m making a unilateral decision that I won’t have a baby, which I feel is perfectly within my rights. She still has the right to leave me and find somebody else to have a baby with if she wants it that bad. I don’t want her to decide that. I don’t want her to throw away our entire life together because she woke up one day and decided she wanted another baby right now. Nobody is stopping her from doing that though. Good luck to her finding a quality 40+ year old man who wants to have a baby.

I’m not sure what sort of joint decision we can come to at this point. It’s not as if a baby is something that we can meet in the middle about. It’s yes or no and we’re at opposite ends of the spectrum. 

Of course she says I’m being selfish. I’ve spent the past 24 years putting her and our son first, doing everything for their well being but now that I want to enjoy this time in my life while I’m still young enough to do things that I want to do for me I’m selfish? She can’t admit that what she’s doing right now is selfish.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

What you're wife is doing is total B.S.

Instead of being happy and being grateful that the two of you were blessed with a son (not everyone can) and now going to get to experience being grandparents she's pulling this nonsense.

It's almost like she's jealous (or competing with) your DIL??

I would NOT confront her with a divorce. Why would you want her to be forced to have sex with you? Nope. I'd stay quiet and see how much longer she's going to continue to use no sex as a weapon to try to manipulate you in order to get her way. She's throwing an adult temper tantrum. Let her do it.

Go make yourself busy and don't get sucked into her bull$h!t game that she's playing.

I would however have a cut off date in mind. Say another month and if she's still pulling this B.S. just end it (you may already be there now). 

No way I'm threatening her with divorce to have sex with me. She either gets with the program or you walk. Seeing this side of her would P!$$ me off!!

Your wife obviously doesn't understand the difference between a want and a need. So she wants a baby. Ok great but that's not what the two of you agreed on and again that ship sailed. 

Most women at this age would be so excited about being a grandmother and everything that goes with it instead it's ALL about her and her having another child. 

After pulling this B.S. I wouldn't even want to have sex with her right now. NOTHING about this is loving!!


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Adding to my earlier post, I also wonder if her desire to have another child is because she genuinely wants to grow your family, or if this has more to do with something she’s going through internally. If it’s the latter, it’s not going to solve any issues or internal conflicts she’s going through.

The fact that she’s withholding sex is cringe and it sort of shows that she’s not grateful for all she’s had with you.
I hope she comes around and apologizes because this would be sad to have to leave one another over this situation.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I’m a female who chose to have one child at a young age. I was free forever by the time I was 42. I can’t even begin to imagine thinking, when I was 40 with decades of glorious freedom ahead of me, that I should start all over. Especially since my husband would have looked at me like I was crazy if I had — and rightfully so. Sometimes these bright ideas come a little too late. You deal with it and move on. You don’t sulk and pout because you didn’t get your way (that, oh by the way, only popped up because you’re becoming a grandmother at 40 so you want to prove you’re still young). Nope.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> I was in a somewhat similar situation at 40 but instead of having a 24 year old out of the house, I had brand new baby and a 2 1/2 year old in the house (my wife was a few weeks shy of 37 at that time) But more on that below.
> 
> Mother Nature makes women want to squeeze in one more offspring before the baby making factory shuts down. It's a biological and instinctive thing. Mother Nature is whispering in a woman's ear that she needs to have one more child while she can in case the next drought, famine or epidemic kills off the ones she already has. Pre menopause is probably playing a role here too. She may be getting some signs or symptoms of impending menopause and is making one last Hail Mary play to squeeze in one more before her reproductive system closes up shop.
> 
> ...


He already is being "rational".


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## AlwaysImproving (5 mo ago)

TinyTbone said:


> Real quick. Look, there are going to be lots of answers/ advice that will state no sex is a deal breaker and on and on. DIVORCE HER AND MOVE ON. Hogwash, it's not that simple. Divorce is just a means to an end, it fixes nothing between you two. It sounds to me by your writing that your lives were fine till this issue popped up. Nobody said a commitment would be easy. Good times and not so good times. Marriage should not be considered disposable for something that wasn't infidelity. Work together with love and figure it out.


Working together like how she is doing? 3 months is a long time to carry on like this. Like Diedre said, how can he even trust her at this point to not pull off a surprise pregnancy?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Openminded said:


> that, oh by the way, only popped up because you’re becoming a grandmother at 40 so you want to prove you’re still young


I'd be willing to bet my whole paycheck it's this. 40 is really hard for some women.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Openminded said:


> Keep in mind that when the battle lines are drawn, one wins and one loses. And the one who loses often carries a lot of resentment. Sometimes permanently.


Yes, and that's sad. It's a shame she drew such harsh lines, but it sounds like he still wants to try and work on things.



Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> The grandkids as babies were just enough of remember when..... baby times.


If I had known grandkids would be so much fun, I'd have had them first!! 🤣


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Your wife really seems selfish and self centered. Allow your son to have the spotlight. As grandparents you will be busy with a baby if he lives close by. Why would she need to steal the attention from your sons happiness?

Your wife is mean - deep to the core- to even consider this - and to punish you for her wants.

if I were you - I’d get a vasectomy.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Andy1001 said:


> She’s using sex as a weapon. That’s a deal breaker to me.


when women do this - it shows just how mean they truly are. There is no coming back from a situation like this. She showed her hand.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

sideways said:


> He already is being "rational".


Yes he is and this post below is absolutely 100% dead-on accurate.

He is not saying she “can’t” have another child and he is not infringing upon her agency and reproductive rights.

he is saying that he does not want to father and raise another child. That is exercising his agency and reproductive rights.

he recognizes the risk that she may leave him to have another child with another man and accepts that risk over raising another child himself.

that is 100% fair.




CoffeeandTV said:


> CoffeeandTV said:
> 
> 
> > I don’t see it as me unilaterally making the decision that she can’t have a baby. I’m making a unilateral decision that I won’t have a baby, which I feel is perfectly within my rights. She still has the right to leave me and find somebody else to have a baby with if she wants it that bad. I don’t want her to decide that. I don’t want her to throw away our entire life together because she woke up one day and decided she wanted another baby right now. Nobody is stopping her from doing that though. Good luck to her finding a quality 40+ year old man who wants to have a baby.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

CoffeeandTV said:


> You’re not being rude. This isn’t like her. Yes, she is definitely skilled at being stubborn but she normally doesn’t act like a juvenile over it. This is not typical behavior for her at all.
> 
> I’ve thought it was a bit mid-life crisis esq myself. I know that we have both talked about how we are happy for our son and his wife but that it feels very weird to think about being grandparents at our age. We laugh at it but perhaps it’s bothering her on a deeper level than she lets on. She says suddenly she just realized that she regrets not having anymore children and she blinked and suddenly she’s 40 and it’s “now or never” in her mind. She gets mad that I won’t consider it, that I don’t even want to discuss it. Look, I love our son more than anything in the world. I also love that he’s 24 and we successfully got him through life this far, though school, out in his own, and now we’re free! I have zero desire to have another child so why waste time discussing it or “considering” it. She says I’m the stubborn one since I don’t want to talk about it. I have told her my reasons, so I did talk about it. I won’t pretend to feel differently. What good will that do but get her hopes up?


Sorry but this is a part of who she is or she wouldn’t be taking this action would she?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I think this thread has become a little controversial in that many men that we read about on here acquiesce to their wive’s every whim, and the irony is those wives often lose respect for those husbands because they’re not exhibiting a backbone. Go figure. 😌

I highly doubt your wife wants a baby at all costs, OP. She isn’t going to divorce you to find some other guy to do this with. lol She just assumed you’d go along … because maybe she feels overall that you’re easy going and you would never say no.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> I think this thread has become a little controversial in that many men that we read about on here acquiesce to their wive’s every whim, and the irony is those wives often lose respect for those husbands because they’re not exhibiting a backbone. Go figure. 😌
> 
> I highly doubt your wife wants a baby at all costs, OP. She isn’t going to divorce you to find some other guy to do this with. lol She just assumed you’d go along … because maybe she feels overall that you’re easy going and you would never say no.


No, I don’t think that she’s on the verge of leaving me to go have a baby with another man either. I am now concerned that she’s managed to withhold sex for 3 months straight over it though. At first, when a week went by I didn’t think anything of it. I’ve already said she does have a talent for being stubborn but it’s normal over trivial things. I actually found it pretty funny that she decided to withhold sex and would openly declare that she was going to masturbate because she was punishing me for not giving her a baby. That was within the first week. After 3 months I still don’t think she’s going to leave me but I am genuinely concerned about what this is doing to our relationship. This is more than just being stubborn and we’re both developing resentment toward each other.

She had her chance to make a decision 24 years ago when she decided she was going to keep our oops pregnancy in high school. It’s not the decision I would have made (at the time) but I understood that I screwed up, I was careless, and that I had absolutely no say in her decision since the deed was already done. From the moment she told me she decided to keep the baby I took full responsibility and I dedicated myself to being the best father and partner I could. She used that against me too. I reminded her that she got to make the decision last time and now it’s my turn. She tried to turn it around on me as if I was saying I wish she hadn’t chosen to keep our son, which isn’t what I was saying at all. Whatever happened back then was what was meant to happen and like I said, I wouldn’t change it now and I’m thankful that she made the decision she did. But that doesn’t mean she’s right this time and that I’ll “realize she’s right” about having a baby this time too, as she’s tried telling me.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

There comes a point when her “stubbornness” starts to resemble emotional abuse, to be honest.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

SCDad01 said:


> Get her a puppy instead.
> 
> I agree with the others. She’s being irrational and extremely selfish. She’s acting like a child withholding sex from you. Mention to her your grandchild is going to be around and hopefully that will fill her (crazy) void of wanting a baby herself.


The grandchild is what prompted this in the first place. I guess that’s part of what really has me annoyed. There was no mention of wanting another baby at all before this. She probably could have convinced me if this desire had come up 10-15 years ago. Heck maybe even 5 years ago (probably not, but a greater chance then right now). 

Having a grandchild is really the all of the good stuff with none of the responsibility. I’ve tried reminding her of that. She can still experience all of the fun aspects with absolutely none of the negative. Just volunteer to be the de facto babysitter when they want to go out or have a night to themselves. I don’t care if she wants to dedicate a whole room to this child. Still, we will have our own lives and freedom. “It’s not the same” she says.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

*Deidre* said:


> I think this thread has become a little controversial in that many men that we read about on here acquiesce to their wive’s every whim, and the irony is those wives often lose respect for those husbands because they’re not exhibiting a backbone. Go figure. 😌
> 
> I highly doubt your wife wants a baby at all costs, OP. She isn’t going to divorce you to find some other guy to do this with. lol She just assumed you’d go along … because maybe she feels overall that you’re easy going and you would never say no.


i think it’s more telling that she is punishing him and causing harm to the marriage with a purpose.

he is standing firm - that’s good!

but her selfish actions to an unreasonable request by punishing you isn’t cool.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

It might help if you download and read ‘No More Mr Nice Guy’ by glover. It’s a free and short pdf.
Seems childish to me. But you need to effectively deal with it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> The grandchild is what prompted this in the first place. I guess that’s part of what really has me annoyed. There was no mention of wanting another baby at all before this. She probably could have convinced me if this desire had come up 10-15 years ago. Heck maybe even 5 years ago (probably not, but a greater chance then right now).
> 
> Having a grandchild is really the all of the good stuff with none of the responsibility. I’ve tried reminding her of that. She can still experience all of the fun aspects with absolutely none of the negative. Just volunteer to be the de facto babysitter when they want to go out or have a night to themselves. I don’t care if she wants to dedicate a whole room to this child. Still, we will have our own lives and freedom. “It’s not the same” she says.


volunteer her to babysit for overnights and long weekends as much as possible.

she may quickly change her tune real quick.
Don’t just let her have him/her for the fun happy times. Make her babysit when he/she is sick and puking and cranky and have her take him/her to the doctor’s appointments and for vaccines etc.

she will probably change her tune real quick.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Marc878 said:


> It might help if you download and read ‘No More Mr Nice Guy’ by glover. It’s a free and short pdf.
> Seems childish to me. But you need to effectively deal with it.


I don’t think he needs the book. He is standing strong/firm in his decision.

it’s HER that being purposely mean and vengeful to the point of purposely causing him harm.

you can’t change who she is. But now you know who she really is. It would be hard for ME to even want sex again from someone this mean - and to have the marriage continue…? It would have me rethinking all of what we had together! Because this is a game changer - no matter how good the past had been.

has she shown signs of being self centered and mean before this?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> It will be her hormones and making her all broody because of the grandchild. When my daughter was pregnant with my granddaughter I craved another baby so much. Once my grandchild was born the broodiness and wanting another baby disappeared altogether. Hormones can be weird. I never went on a sex ban though. Have a heart to heart with her and about all the things you will both do with your grandchild together. Take her shopping for things for the grandchild. Hopefully when the baby is born and in her arms the other feelings will disappear. Good luck.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


Once the baby gets here I imagine it’ll go one of two ways. She’ll either realize that having a grandchild satisfies all of her urges as far as having a baby/small child in her life again and she’ll realize that she doesn’t need another baby of her own or it’ll fuel the desire for a baby of her own even more and she’ll double down. 

So I don’t know, if I sit around and wait it out I might get to have non-reproductive sex again my Christmas. Lucky me! I’m ashamed to admit that her childish behavior has at time brought out the same sort of thoughts in me. I’ve thought that if/when she decides she’ll have sex with me again I might just refuse her for a good long while to see how she feels. I’ve also told her that her body won’t bounce back like it did when she was a teenager. 3 months after having a baby back then and you’d never know she had ever been pregnant. That won’t be the case at 40. I felt bad after I said it and I realized as soon as it came out of my mouth that she just had more ammunition to try to make me feel bad and accuse me of refusing a baby because of the affect it’ll have on her appearance. That’s the least of my worries. If I actually wanted a baby right now I wouldn’t care about the possible affects on her appearance. Although again, what I said is true. She’s done so much work on herself the past several years, she’s really in shape and looks fantastic and it’ll take a lot of work after having a baby at this age to get back to where she is now. Then I’ll have to hear her complain about that.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Tell her she can pretend she is pregnant because she is already fat enough to pull it off …..


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

She needs to learn a lesson, but you are the only one that can cause that to happen.

The fact you haven't done anything about this so far is the exact attitude she expects from you, otherwise she wouldn't think she could get away with it.

You need to start removing things that you provide for her. Your companionship, stability, etc.... Do it swiftly and unapologetically.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

re16 said:


> She needs to learn a lesson, but you are the only one that can cause that to happen.
> 
> The fact you haven't done anything about this so far is the exact attitude she expects from you, otherwise she wouldn't think she could get away with it.
> 
> You need to start removing things that you provide for her. Your companionship, stability, etc.... Do it swiftly and unapologetically.


Why waste time playing pointless games?

" For example, if a person gives his dog a treat when he pisses on the carpet, the dog will keep pissing on the carpet. The same is true for humans. If the Nice Guy reinforces his partner's undesirable behaviors, she will keep behaving in undesirable ways.”

If this is your opinion of women, that we are nothing but dogs that piss the carpet, then divorce.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Once the baby gets here I imagine it’ll go one of two ways. She’ll either realize that having a grandchild satisfies all of her urges as far as having a baby/small child in her life again and she’ll realize that she doesn’t need another baby of her own or it’ll fuel the desire for a baby of her own even more and she’ll double down.
> 
> So I don’t know, if I sit around and wait it out I might get to have non-reproductive sex again my Christmas. Lucky me! I’m ashamed to admit that her childish behavior has at time brought out the same sort of thoughts in me. I’ve thought that if/when she decides she’ll have sex with me again I might just refuse her for a good long while to see how she feels. I’ve also told her that her body won’t bounce back like it did when she was a teenager. 3 months after having a baby back then and you’d never know she had ever been pregnant. That won’t be the case at 40. I felt bad after I said it and I realized as soon as it came out of my mouth that she just had more ammunition to try to make me feel bad and accuse me of refusing a baby because of the affect it’ll have on her appearance. That’s the least of my worries. If I actually wanted a baby right now I wouldn’t care about the possible affects on her appearance. Although again, what I said is true. She’s done so much work on herself the past several years, she’s really in shape and looks fantastic and it’ll take a lot of work after having a baby at this age to get back to where she is now. Then I’ll have to hear her complain about that.


You've stated your case that you don't want another child. Your position is valid and justified and makes very good sense. 

So my advice is to no longer engage her in any discussion of more kids of your own. You can talk about grandchildren till the cows come home but if she brings up you two having another child - radio silence. It's already been discussed and your decision has been made. No need for any further discussion on that. 

She is clearly able bodied so she is able to go down to the courthouse and file the necessary paperwork for a divorce and pack her bags and go find another man that wants to have a baby with a 40 year old woman. Her perogative. 

As far as the sex issue. It's your perogative whether you remain in a sexless marriage or not. 

If you want to give the marriage a chance, you can offer to go to marriage counseling. Otherwise it's your call on whether you want to remain in a sexless marriage with someone that is punishing you for not letting her have her way with another human being.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Why waste time playing pointless games?


I agree. 

Game playing begats game playing. 

Either you two want to remain a functioning married couple or you don't. It takes both of you to remain married in a healthy relationship and only one of you to end it. 

You can each choose to remain together or either one of you can opt out. Playing games and seeing who can out manipulate the other is just plain dumb.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I agree.
> 
> Game playing begats game playing.
> 
> ...


The game playing seems to be turning into the point. Have a single conversation to insist on returning to normal or treat W like the child she's acting like. Start taking away all the things you do for her.


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## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

I just cannot imagine her saying out loud that she’s punishing you because you won’t give her a baby. Geez. She’s taking her “toy” and playing elsewhere. Really?? How does she ever expect the relationship to continue in a healthy way? Not an attractive look at all. I think you just need to pull back from her a little and focus on your own stuff (hobbies, work or any project you have going on) and give you time and attention to your son & DIL. Maybe your wife will wake up and realize her childish behavior. Or maybe she won’t. I would find it hard to be attracted to someone behaving like that. Good Luck OP. Enjoy the grandchild. I had all my kids when I was older (just worked out that way). I still have a ways to go.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

To answer the question that’s come up a number of times, no she doesn’t have a history of acting this way or being “mean.” She’s definitely never withheld sex (or anything else) like this before either. There have been times where maybe we had a disagreement and she won’t want to have sex that particular day but we’re back to normal the next day. I think the only reason sex is being withheld is because sex is tied to having babies. If this argument was about something completely unrelated, I don’t think she’d be withholding sex. It just makes the whole situation even more bizarre since this isn’t like her. I get it, she’s really serious about wanting another baby now. She’s trying to prove to me that it isn’t a whim because I accused her of it being just that.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I agree that marriage counseling and counseling for her alone, would be helpful. This isn’t a sexless marriage because of a medical issue or infidelity etc…it’s manipulation. And I think when spouses do this, they don’t realize that they’re breaking trust. They’re hurting the other person and the marriage.

It’s not a game to withhold sex - and she should really reflect on what she’s doing to the marriage.

Has she shared her interest in having another baby with anyone else in the family or friends?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> I left my first wife and divorce her, exactly for the same reason... no sex for over three months.
> 
> What she's doing should be a deal breaker for any man that self respect and dignity. To me that's an offense of the highest order.
> If I were in your situation, I would ask her for the "we need to talk" and tell her we are either a couple or we are not, if you don't want to have sex anymore with me, then here are the divorce papers. Sign them and let's get this over with.


I’m not at the point of divorcing her. If this goes on indefinitely, sure. But right now I’m not ready to throw in the towel over 3 months of her having a hissy fit. We’ve survived too much together for me to give up over sex, just yet. If I felt like there was a lack of love or attraction on either side that couldn’t be repaired that might be different. 

I won’t bring divorce up right now because there’s no way I’d follow through with it at the moment. I don’t see it as having lack of self respect or dignity. I’ve just put way too much into our family, our marriage, our life together, and our potential future to divorce over this right now.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m not at the point of divorcing her. If this goes on indefinitely, sure. But right now I’m not ready to throw in the towel over 3 months of her having a hissy fit. We’ve survived too much together for me to give up over sex, just yet. If I felt like there was a lack of love or attraction on either side that couldn’t be repaired that might be different.
> 
> I won’t bring divorce up right now because there’s no way I’d follow through with it at the moment. I don’t see it as having lack of self respect or dignity. I’ve just put way too much into our family, our marriage, our life together, and our potential future to divorce over this right now.


How does she react when she realizes you're handling your urges yourself? Or I guess the question is are you?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> I agree that marriage counseling and counseling for her alone, would be helpful. This isn’t a sexless marriage because of a medical issue or infidelity etc…it’s manipulation. And I think when spouses do this, they don’t realize that they’re breaking trust. They’re hurting the other person and the marriage.
> 
> It’s not a game to withhold sex - and she should really reflect on what she’s doing to the marriage.
> 
> Has she shared her interest in having another baby with anyone else in the family or friends?


I think in her mind I’m a guy so she can control me with sex and that once she decides to finally give in I’ll be so desperate for sex with her again that I’ll just forget all about her behavior over the past several months. I don’t think she really realizes what she’s doing. 

I don’t know who all she’s discussed it with, but I overheard her telling her sister that she wants to have another baby and that I’m being mean and won’t give her one. Then she also went on to complain about how she didn’t get to enjoy her first pregnancy due to her age at the time and all the shame she felt, which caused her to try to hide it from most people and she wants to be able to enjoy pregnancy this time around without her parents and everyone else telling her what to do. She sounds more like a teenager now than she did 25 years ago.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’ve recently been reading about dead bedrooms on a few sites and saw a mention of Talk About Marriage on a Reddit post and thought I’d come check this place out in case somebody here might be able to help.
> 
> I suppose you could say I’m experiencing what is the start of a dead bedroom, but it’s not really a typical “my wife just doesn’t want sex anymore” situation. She’s intentionally withholding sex now and what I thought would be a short, stubborn hold out has turned into almost 3 months of no sex.
> 
> ...


I think there's something a little off going on that her child having a baby prompted her to want to have a baby. Is she at all competitive or keep up with the Joneses and that sort of thing? Did finding out she was going to be a grandma make her feel her life was over or something and having a child would make it begin again?

I don't know. But I think you're right to not give in to this. The timing is just too suspicious. She may just have started thinking about all the baby stuff for the grandbaby and gotten all immersed back in time or something and might snap out of it. 

Is she on birth control or has she gone off of it hoping to get pregnant? I assume she has been on birth control because she hasn't gotten pregnant again all these years. I would be super careful and be sure that you are covering that aspect yourself. What I'm thinking is she may have gone off birth control and doesn't want to have sex since then you said you don't want a baby but it's still off of it because she's hoping to wear you down. It's just a possibility that she went off of it before even asking you about a baby. 

If I were you I would tell her no more sex until she's back on birth control and in the meantime I would certainly use my own birth control. And if you really don't want another one you could get a vasectomy. 

I can see how this turned into a stalemate since in her mind she's punishing you and won't have sex until it can get her pregnant but you need to flip that around on her and tell her no more sex until you're sure she won't get pregnant. But I would not trust it. She's seriously may try to oops you.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Beach123 said:


> Your wife really seems selfish and self centered. Allow your son to have the spotlight. As grandparents you will be busy with a baby if he lives close by. Why would she need to steal the attention from your sons happiness?
> 
> Your wife is mean - deep to the core- to even consider this - and to punish you for her wants.
> 
> if I were you - I’d get a vasectomy.


I kind of think she might be wanting that attention focused on her and actually be jealous of the attention being focused the other direction. It might also be true that this does all go back to her having a child in her teens when you don't get positive attention from it usually and maybe she's seeing a bunch of positive attention being thrown their way and is jealous of that and feel she missed out on that. But that ship has sailed.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

@CoffeeandTV 

What have you done about this so far?

What actions have you taken with how you are handling this with her?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I think in her mind I’m a guy so she can control me with sex and that once she decides to finally give in I’ll be so desperate for sex with her again that I’ll just forget all about her behavior over the past several months. I don’t think she really realizes what she’s doing.
> 
> I don’t know who all she’s discussed it with, but I overheard her telling her sister that she wants to have another baby and that I’m being mean and won’t give her one. Then she also went on to complain about how she didn’t get to enjoy her first pregnancy due to her age at the time and all the shame she felt, which caused her to try to hide it from most people and she wants to be able to enjoy pregnancy this time around without her parents and everyone else telling her what to do. She sounds more like a teenager now than she did 25 years ago.


Just now read this. She's jealous and wants the attention that her child and partner are getting, which is kind of pathetic. And I believe at this point I would let her know how that looks and how selfish and coveting that is wanting to steal their thunder.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

OP:

Are you here to vent, or are you looking for tangible things you can do?

Are you willing to endure things getting worse before they potentially get better?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think there's something a little off going on that her child having a baby prompted her to want to have a baby. Is she at all competitive or keep up with the Joneses and that sort of thing? Did finding out she was going to be a grandma make her feel her life was over or something and having a child would make it begin again?
> 
> I don't know. But I think you're right to not give in to this. The timing is just too suspicious. She may just have started thinking about all the baby stuff for the grandbaby and gotten all immersed back in time or something and might snap out of it.
> 
> ...


She’s been on birth control (pill form) since right after our son was born. I was so paranoid that I still faithfully used condoms every single time for at least the next 4 years. I wasn’t paranoid that she’d try to get pregnant on purpose, but just wanted to be 110% sure that another baby wouldn’t come along again anytime soon. 

So yeah I’ve considered buying condoms again for the first time in 20 years. Never thought I’d have to do it because I was worried about her trying to get pregnant but it’s definitely crossed my mind. Not that pulling out is completely effective but I’ve actually decided to do that at the last minute the past few times we’ve actually had sex. Of course that pisses her off because she knows exactly why I’m doing it.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Just now read this. She's jealous and wants the attention that her child ain't partner are getting which is kind of pathetic.


Staggeringly immature behavior. This is not how adults behave. I want to believe it's a hormonal imbalance that is making her crazy because I would hate that any adult thinks this behavior is in any way acceptable. But then I remember my own mother and think about my husband's mother and SIL and yeah, some women behave like this. For some reason they never mature past 17-18 years old. Crazytown. A little time on her own having to pay her own bills and make her own way would grow her up double quick, I bet.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She’s been on birth control (pill form) since right after our son was born. I was so paranoid that I still faithfully used condoms every single time for at least the next 4 years. I wasn’t paranoid that she’d try to get pregnant on purpose, but just wanted to be 110% sure that another baby wouldn’t come along again anytime soon.
> 
> So yeah I’ve considered buying condoms again for the first time in 20 years. Never thought I’d have to do it because I was worried about her trying to get pregnant but it’s definitely crossed my mind. Not that pulling out is completely effective but I’ve actually decided to do that at the last minute the past few times we’ve actually had sex. Of course that pisses her off because she knows exactly why I’m doing it.


Are you against getting a vasectomy?
Pretty simple to have, easy recovery in my experience. Frees the mind.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She’s been on birth control (pill form) since right after our son was born. I was so paranoid that I still faithfully used condoms every single time for at least the next 4 years. I wasn’t paranoid that she’d try to get pregnant on purpose, but just wanted to be 110% sure that another baby wouldn’t come along again anytime soon.
> 
> So yeah I’ve considered buying condoms again for the first time in 20 years. Never thought I’d have to do it because I was worried about her trying to get pregnant but it’s definitely crossed my mind. Not that pulling out is completely effective but I’ve actually decided to do that at the last minute the past few times we’ve actually had sex. Of course that pisses her off because she knows exactly why I’m doing it.


Well her motives are selfish, so I wouldn't much care, the way she's behaving. I bet anything she's off of her birth control and has been. And it takes a while after you start taking it again for it to become effective again. If you find out what type she's on and look it up you would probably find that out on Google so you'll be armed with knowledge.

I definitely think you need to buy condoms and use them going forward into the future which is really too bad for you. Or just put an end to the conversation and go get a vasectomy. I am not and authority at all on them but I bet they're outpatient and can be done in one day.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Btw, 2 condoms isn’t a good idea. Somebody suggested that and it was funny but in all seriousness the friction of 2 condoms against each other can actually lead to holes. I read that many many years ago.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Staggeringly immature behavior. This is not how adults behave. I want to believe it's a hormonal imbalance that is making her crazy because I would hate that any adult thinks this behavior is in any way acceptable. But then I remember my own mother and think about my husband's mother and SIL and yeah, some women behave like this. For some reason they never mature past 17-18 years old. Crazytown. A little time on her own having to pay her own bills and make her own way would grow her up double quick, I bet.


I have only seen something similar to this once and it was an aging ex cheerleader in my office who was a huge attention hog, to the point that she would do gymnastics while people were trying to work. She couldn't stand it if someone else was even in the center of a group of people talking about work and would come and pop into the middle of the group seeking attention.

I sat next to her and so I learned more about her than I cared to know. She was close to 40. She had been engaged I think to the same guy since forever. Her best friend was about to get married on one of those vacation weddings where people come to the beach and it was eating her alive.

She oopsed her fiance and got pregnant and told me she was saving it for a surprise to announce at her best friend's wedding. She just couldn't stand it that someone was getting the attention on their wedding day and it wasn't her. 

Ugh. 

It really is disappointing when someone can't just be happy for their own offspring instead of trying to compete for attention with them.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Btw, 2 condoms isn’t a good idea. Somebody suggested that and it was funny but in all seriousness the friction of 2 condoms against each other can actually lead to holes. I read that many many years ago.


One good one is fine but you keep them where she can't get to them and poke holes with a pin because it has been done.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> One good one is fine but you keep them where she can't get to them and poke holes with a pin because it has been done.


Man, that would be the tough. It is possible.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

But, see, this starts into an entirely different issue, now. After all these years, you can't trust your wife, now. This isn't just about withholding sex, which would be bad enough, OP - but you seem to love your wife, and have created a good life with her. After all you both have been through, this is how she treats you, now. She's willing to ruin your trust, and manipulate you into doing what she wants, for whatever the reasons. 

She may not feel that her interest in having another child is whimsical, and it's interesting that she's discussing it with others. So, maybe she is feeling this urge to have another baby, but you are very much an EQUAL part of that equation, and she seems to be missing that part. I think that the lack of intimacy (not just sex) will make you both grow apart, emotionally...eventually. If it's not happening already. 

So, it's not just about sex at this point...it's about how your wife sees you...the marriage, and how after all these years, how it's all coming down to this one thing.

You may want to ask her...if you don't agree to have a baby with her now, will she leave you? Her answer might tell you many things at that point or she may be stunned that you're even going there. You don't have to even mention divorce, but you need to know...is this a deal breaker for her? Is her insisting on having a baby a deal breaker for you?


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## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I don’t know who all she’s discussed it with, but I overheard her telling her sister that she wants to have another baby and that I’m being mean and won’t give her one. Then she also went on to complain about how she didn’t get to enjoy her first pregnancy due to her age at the time and all the shame she felt, which caused her to try to hide it from most people and she wants to be able to enjoy pregnancy this time around without her parents and everyone else telling her what to do. She sounds more like a teenager now than she did 25 years ago.


Just a slight correction here. This isn't actually immature. She's telling you something from her heart. She's giving you a valid reason she wants to do this. She's jealous of your DIL and getting to experience a proper pregnancy.

It doesn't mean it's a good reason to have another child, but the reason she wants to is valid.

So, that said, what's your end game here? If you want it to change, you need to ask her that question. If you're not going to change your mind, how long is she willing to withhold sex? How do you move on? If she doesn't know, or says she isn't moving off of her position, that's when you calmly bring up divorce and indicate it'll be a lot easier to do it before we hate each other - because that's where you're headed if the situation doesn't change.

And yes, if you feel strongly about it, I'd get some condoms or get a vasectomy.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Zedd said:


> some condoms or get a vasectomy.


Since they aren't having sex, there is no need for either.

Also, why get a vasectomy based on a wife that is rattling the foundation of the marriage... continuing her current behavior, the marriage will end... just a matter of exactly how much time. What if he then gets re-married to someone that he feels like he wants a child with?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

re16 said:


> What if he then gets re-married to someone that he feels like he wants a child with?


So it's not that he doesn't want a child, it's that he doesn't want a child with this particular woman? Is that because she's older and he's concerned about her looks?

The OP has said nothing to support that. He's made it sound like he is done having children and is ready for empty nest time, not just that he is tired of this one woman. If all he wanted was a new, hot, young wife, wouldn't he have left by now to go get one?


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So it's not that he doesn't want a child, it's that he doesn't want a child with this particular woman? Is that because she's older and he's concerned about her looks?
> 
> The OP has said nothing to support that. He's made it sound like he is done having children and is ready for empty nest time, not just that he is tired of this one woman. If all he wanted was a new, hot, young wife, wouldn't he have left by now to go get one?


Nope. He doesn't want a child.

If he gets divorced over this and starts a new life, he might change his mind, and that would be ok.

This problem is happening because of his wife's behavior, not anything to do with his.


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## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

re16 said:


> Since they aren't having sex, there is no need for either.


Yeah, it's not like that couldn't change tonight.



re16 said:


> What if he then gets re-married to someone that he feels like he wants a child with?


Then condoms would probably be the more applicable option, which is why it was suggested as an alternative option. You literally quoted it.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Zedd said:


> Just a slight correction here. This isn't actually immature. She's telling you something from her heart. She's giving you a valid reason she wants to do this. She's jealous of your DIL and getting to experience a proper pregnancy.
> 
> It doesn't mean it's a good reason to have another child, but the reason she wants to is valid.
> 
> ...


I couldn’t disagree more. She may be stating what she wants… but her timing looks very immature and selfish.

man’s the actions (with holding sex) is certainly a critically mean action to take- on her part.

nothing about the way she’s doing this is loving actions. Not even to HER SON and his wife!!
Does your son know she’s requested to be pregnant now?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Beach123 said:


> I couldn’t disagree more. She may be stating what she wants… but her timing looks very immature and selfish.
> 
> man’s the actions (with holding sex) is certainly a critically mean action to take- on her part.
> 
> ...


I don't believe she wants a baby. I believe she just wants the attention that she thinks she would get from being pregnant with and having a newborn, but rude awakening, that sort of enthusiasm from the general public probably isn't going to be like she imagines it because they will be thinking she is the grandmother and then that will certainly chap her.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> So I don’t know, if I sit around and wait it out I might get to have non-reproductive sex again my Christmas.


This is the middle of August. Promise yourself that you WILL be having non-reproductive sex by Christmas. 
Whether it’s with your wife or someone else.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

re16 said:


> Nope. He doesn't want a child.
> 
> If he gets divorced over this and starts a new life, he might change his mind, and that would be ok.
> 
> This problem is happening because of his wife's behavior, not anything to do with his.


Fair. I know vascectomies are supposed to be reversible, but not having that equipment I can’t speak to how practical a plan that would be. 😬


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I don't believe she wants a baby. I believe she just wants the attention that she thinks she would get from being pregnant with and having a newborn, but rude awakening, that sort of enthusiasm from the general public probably isn't going to be like she imagines it because they will be thinking she is the grandmother and then that will certainly chap her.


Ok, well in her defense she doesn’t look like a grandmother. People usually think she’s my son’s older sister (and on a few occasions they’ve thought she was high girlfriend which is disturbing) when they’ve been out in public just the two of them. When she takes his baby out on her own people will probably assume she’s the mother. As long as she doesn’t actually pretend/claim to be the baby’s mother, I’m fine with it.

Our friends and family would think we were crazy to have a baby 24 years after the first. I wouldn’t care what they thought if she and I were in agreement about having another. She probably wouldn’t like the judgment she’d get from some people though. She’s definitely looking at it with rose colored glasses.

I actually don’t think this has anything to do with wanting attention. She’s not an attention seeker. I think it very well could have to do with suddenly feeling old because she’s about to become a grandmother. That mixed with all of the fuzzy thoughts she has thinking about a new baby coming and realizing that she actually wants that for herself and not just via being a grandparent. She may genuinely regret not having another child years ago when it would have made more sense - she was very focused on school and her career for many years and I’d even say she probably felt stronger about not having anymore children for a while. I probably easily would have had another for about a period of 10 years or so in there somewhere but she was too busy to want that at the time. I think it could also have something to do with the reality that her child is now a grown adult with a family of his own so she feels he doesn’t need her anymore. Neither are valid reasons to have another child but they are different reasons than wanting attention.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> I couldn’t disagree more. She may be stating what she wants… but her timing looks very immature and selfish.
> 
> man’s the actions (with holding sex) is certainly a critically mean action to take- on her part.
> 
> ...


I don’t believe she’s mentioned anything to our son about wanting another baby herself. I told him though and he thought it was very weird.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

At first I thought like River said abd she was jealous of your son’s baby. Could be. But I have witnessed a woman at 37,38 years old I once was engaged to— she’s see a baby and go berserk wanting one. Even made me promise to give her one when we got married. I would have. She was brilliant and beautiful and I thought it would be nice to have a baby with her….
So I think she’s just baby crazy. The suggestion of keeping it a lot won’t work because most likely that momma won’t turn loose even for a night. And it may backfire and she would really be craving one. That maternal baby desiring biological drive runs strong!

I do think after 3 months, it’s time to get serious with consequences for her. This is unreasonable behavior and ignoring it shows passivity which is a marriage killer.

This problem needs to be met head in like any other. Wishing it would go away doesn’t fix it but makes it worse.

OP might seriously consider dressing nice snd going out a Saturday night or two and coming in late and offering nothing but the same cold shoulder his wife is offering if she questions him.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I think in her mind I’m a guy so she can control me with sex and that once she decides to finally give in I’ll be so desperate for sex with her again that I’ll just forget all about her behavior over the past several months. I don’t think she really realizes what she’s doing.
> 
> I don’t know who all she’s discussed it with, but I overheard her telling her sister that she wants to have another baby and that I’m being mean and won’t give her one. Then she also went on to complain about how she didn’t get to enjoy her first pregnancy due to her age at the time and all the shame she felt, which caused her to try to hide it from most people and she wants to be able to enjoy pregnancy this time around without her parents and everyone else telling her what to do. She sounds more like a teenager now than she did 25 years ago.


This is why I feel part of this is about getting attention. You certainly know her best but it sounds like she wants to get the positive attention of being pregnant that she didn't get as a teen mom. I mean she's not even saying anything about the child. She saying she wants to enjoy her pregnancy because she didn't get to the first time. Now you can ask other women on here what is the part of pregnancy that they enjoyed. It's a lot of attention from strangers on the street and people being interested in you for that period of time. It's not the morning sickness and bloat, that's for sure.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I guess it doesn’t matter what her perspective is pertaining to not getting your approval to have another baby now.

what’s critical is the action she took (withholding) after she didn’t get the answer she was seeking.

so what if she looks young. My exMIL looked younger than me when I got married. She was a grandmother before she was 37 years old.

the way your wife is treating you is mean and juvenile. What do you plan to do about her bad behavior?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I loved feeling him move around in there, especially in response to my voice. I did not like strangers touching my belly, no touchy-touchy whaled out Texas por favor. But I agree with DBTR that this is about attention and recapturing her youth and possibly some MLC sprinkled in there cause she's staring down the barrel of being a Memaw. I'm not excusing her behavior, certainly, because it's inexcusable.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Ok, well in her defense she doesn’t look like a grandmother. People usually think she’s my son’s older sister (and on a few occasions they’ve thought she was high girlfriend which is disturbing) when they’ve been out in public just the two of them. When she takes his baby out on her own people will probably assume she’s the mother. As long as she doesn’t actually pretend/claim to be the baby’s mother, I’m fine with it.
> 
> Our friends and family would think we were crazy to have a baby 24 years after the first. I wouldn’t care what they thought if she and I were in agreement about having another. She probably wouldn’t like the judgment she’d get from some people though. She’s definitely looking at it with rose colored glasses.
> 
> I actually don’t think this has anything to do with wanting attention. She’s not an attention seeker. I think it very well could have to do with suddenly feeling old because she’s about to become a grandmother. That mixed with all of the fuzzy thoughts she has thinking about a new baby coming and realizing that she actually wants that for herself and not just via being a grandparent. She may genuinely regret not having another child years ago when it would have made more sense - she was very focused on school and her career for many years and I’d even say she probably felt stronger about not having anymore children for a while. I probably easily would have had another for about a period of 10 years or so in there somewhere but she was too busy to want that at the time. I think it could also have something to do with the reality that her child is now a grown adult with a family of his own so she feels he doesn’t need her anymore. Neither are valid reasons to have another child but they are different reasons than wanting attention.


Those are good insights....empty nest feelings, want to hold on to youth with suddenly being titled a grandma, regret for not doing it earlier.... but those are all things she can experience and commisserate with you on in a normal fashion...like any mature adult.... but instead, she is behaving in an extremely immature manor instead, and you need to call her on that... and if it continues, do something about it.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

I’m thinking about a vasectomy. There are times (usually when she’s purposely doing something to try to torture me sexually, and she knows exactly how) when I think I’d really love to go do it without telling her and then just casually let her know what I’ve done after the fact. In reality that’s not really how I’d like it to play out though. I’d like to be able to discuss it with her and be upfront about what I’ve decided to do and not have her take it personally and not have her get upset and hold it against me. 

Despite feeling completely sure that I don’t want to have another child right now, there’s also this really small part of me that isn’t quite ready to completely close the door yet. It’s less than 1% of me but it’s still there.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> I guess it doesn’t matter what her perspective is pertaining to not getting your approval to have another baby now.
> 
> what’s critical is the action she took (withholding) after she didn’t get the answer she was seeking.
> 
> ...


I don’t really know what to do at this point. I’ve told her that she’s being childish. I told her that I don’t want a baby and explained why, in what I believe was a rational way. I’m not begging her for sex. In fact I’m really trying to pretend like it’s not phasing me. I’m not about to act desperate for sex. Eventually I lowered myself to trying to have a genuine conversation about why I felt the prolonged withholding of sex and lack of all intimacy was becoming a real concern as far as it’s effect on our relationship. I’ve even tried to imagine having a baby to see if it’s something I could consider just to end this whole thing. 

I think the earlier advice to just no longer engage with her on the subject at all will be wise. On one hand it feels childish to do that but I’ve said how I feel multiple times over and I’m not interested in arguing about it.

Taking things away from her that I provide? I don’t want it to become tit for tat, so I have to think about that carefully so I don’t just stoop to the same sort of behavior she’s currently doing.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Not doing anything about it seems like a bad idea.

There is a festering wound, it will only get worse. I think you need to bring it to a head, and there will be some sort of resolution. I'm sure that doing nothing seems like the least conflict route, but it probably isn't good for your marriage and your long term resentment.

Once resentment builds, it is an insidious force that is very hard to remove from the relationship.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> It’s not so much her desire to have another kid that is the issue - it’s her mean spiritedness in withholding sex because she thinks this will get you to change your mind. That she sees sex as a weapon is kind of sad. It’s opening up an entirely new view into who your wife is. She could be having a crisis but her withholding sex is very telling of her character.
> 
> When/if you go back to having sex, make sure you wear protection. I can see an “oops” situation happening.
> 
> ...


Agreed. You know, I could understand if she was upset for a little while after I said no. That’d be perfectly within her rights to feel that way. It’s the way she’s reacting that’s the real problem. I’m not mad that she wants another baby. I figured it’d happen at some point, but am surprised that it took this long for the urge to hit. If she wasn’t acting so childish I might be just a bit more inclined to listen to her reasoning (not agree to it, but be more willing to at least listen to her reasons), but it’s hard to even take her seriously now. She sees it as the complete opposite - she’s trying to prove just how serious she is by withholding sex.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Beach123 said:


> I guess it doesn’t matter what her perspective is pertaining to not getting your approval to have another baby now.
> 
> what’s critical is the action she took (withholding) after she didn’t get the answer she was seeking.
> 
> ...


I think one reason she's withholding is because she already went off birth control intending to get pregnant. I think she did that and hasn't told him that.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Can you at least ask her what her plan is....

"How long do you intend to intentionally withhold sex?"


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think one reason she's withholding is because she already went off birth control intending to get pregnant. I think she did that and hasn't told him that.


That would explain why she tells him she’s doing things for herself and letting things go to the edge. It’s all very manipulative and childish.


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## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

You really need to have a conversation where you just sit back and listen to her wax poetic about how great it would be to be pregnant, and not judged like she was the first time and so on, and really listen and feel her pain from going through it. Let her go on and on and on. Make sure you hear it.

Then hit her with, "how are you going to feel when someone asks if they're brothers, or cousins or whatever, and you have to reply, actually, the younger one is his uncle." How judged will she feel then? 

Also, having another kid will put her in the position to have the worst of both worlds - a young parent and an old parent. Another 20 years until you can vacation alone, pushing back retirement by 15 years, probably, etc.

At the end, circle back with how amazing it'll be to be young grandparents and all the things you can do with the kiddo, etc etc.



DownByTheRiver said:


> I think one reason she's withholding is because she already went off birth control intending to get pregnant. I think she did that and hasn't told him that.


Also, QFT.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think one reason she's withholding is because she already went off birth control intending to get pregnant. I think she did that and hasn't told him that.


Whether she’s gone off birth control or not, I do believe she already decided that she was going to have another baby before even mentioning it to me. She already started planning how everything would go and imagining the future with a new baby to the point where, in her mind, it was going to happen. All before discussing it with me, assuming I’d go along. She already thought of names because she told me as much. I don’t think she thought she’d have to hold out on sex for 3 months. I don’t think she’s enjoying the lack of sex herself at all. It’s almost insulting that she thinks she could control me so easily with sex though.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

re16 said:


> Can you at least ask her what her plan is....
> 
> "How long do you intend to intentionally withhold sex?"


I’ve asked her. She said “until I feel like it.”


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’ve asked her. She said “until I feel like it.”


Ok, she is flat out telling that she has no respect for your opinion.

Imagine if roles were reversed and you were doing something that she didn't like on purpose, she was asking how long you would continue this, and you said "until I feel like it"....

She would be in hysterics.

I think you are being way too passive. Not sure what else to say about that.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Whether she’s gone off birth control or not, I do believe she already decided that she was going to have another baby before even mentioning it to me. She already started planning how everything would go and imagining the future with a new baby to the point where, in her mind, it was going to happen. All before discussing it with me, assuming I’d go along. She already thought of names because she told me as much. I don’t think she thought she’d have to hold out on sex for 3 months. I don’t think she’s enjoying the lack of sex herself at all. It’s almost insulting that she thinks she could control me so easily with sex though.


Yes, it is insulting. This is how people end up in sexual stalemates. It might take marriage counseling to get out of this rut unless she just gets back on BC and throws in the towel. But it will be hard to trust her going forward when she does start having sex. She will say it was "an accident" if she skips a pill and gets pregnant. And that is all it takes for some, you know, skipping one. I think to enjoy sex, you are going to have to do condoms or something permanent.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

re16 said:


> Ok, she is flat out telling that she has no respect for your opinion.
> 
> Imagine if roles were reversed and you were doing something that she didn't like on purpose, she was asking how long you would continue this, and you said "until I feel like it"....
> 
> ...


Good point. I didn’t see it as passive before. It was more of an effort to just not let her see how much it bothered me, to not let her have the satisfaction of knowing that she was getting any sort of reaction out of me. To just act completely unphased and as if I’m perfectly fine just taking care of myself and don’t need her at all. Now I see that this isn’t working. The reality is I do desperately want to have sex but I won’t let myself beg her for it, no way. She knows what she doing. Last night I was sitting in our den where she has her exercise bike and she came in wearing a push-up sports bra and tiny tight lycra shorts. She was riding her exercise bike and decided “oh, even this is too hot” and took it off mid ride. I just walked out of the room. She normally wears a baggy t shirt when working out at home so this is all very intentional on her part.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’ve asked her. She said “until I feel like it.”


Seriously get a girlfriend on the side and have sex with her instead. Since your wife forfeited her claim to sexual fidelity from you, the moment she unilaterally chose to impose celibacy upon you.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> Completely irresponsible and totally selfish to have a child at 40 (increased risk of genetic disorders) especially when you’re set to have an amazing life together traveling and such.
> What hour wife is doing is really messed up. Maybe you should disappear for a while


I agree with this, although the risk is higher, it's still not THAT high.

My fiancee and I had a baby when we were both 41. We looked at the stats and while some of the risks are described in a scary way, they're not that threatening on their own, e.g. A risk "doubling" sounds worse than going from say "0.1% to 0.2%" It's something they monitor more closely though. And I'd recommend doing genetic testing for sure.

Anyways, I think the bigger issue here is that they had agreed not to have another child, and that was a settled agreement for over a decade, well past the point of revisiting it.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Good point. I didn’t see it as passive before. It was more of an effort to just not let her see how much it bothered me, to not let her have the satisfaction of knowing that she was getting any sort of reaction out of me. To just act completely unphased and as if I’m perfectly fine just taking care of myself and don’t need her at all. Now I see that this isn’t working. The reality is I do desperately want to have sex but I won’t let myself beg her for it, no way. She knows what she doing. Last night I was sitting in our den where she has her exercise bike and she came in wearing a push-up sports bra and tiny tight lycra shorts. She was riding her exercise bike and decided “oh, even this is too hot” and took it off mid ride. I just walked out of the room. She normally wears a baggy t shirt when working out at home so this is all very intentional on her part.


Sounds like she is also flaunting it in your face.

This is a classic "**** test"...but interesting that is happening after so many years.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I think it’s smart not to discuss it with her further… it just grows that energy bigger.

but I also wouldn’t be trying to do special things for her either (like gifts or a vacation) given that she is purposely punishing you now.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Agreed. You know, I could understand if she was upset for a little while after I said no. That’d be perfectly within her rights to feel that way. It’s the way she’s reacting that’s the real problem. I’m not mad that she wants another baby. I figured it’d happen at some point, but am surprised that it took this long for the urge to hit. If she wasn’t acting so childish I might be just a bit more inclined to listen to her reasoning (not agree to it, but be more willing to at least listen to her reasons), but it’s hard to even take her seriously now. She sees it as the complete opposite - she’s trying to prove just how serious she is by withholding sex.


Yea, it’s unfortunate. From all you’ve shared, sounds like in her own mind, she has “valid” reasons. But withholding sex indefinitely is childish and a little unnerving, if she basically thinks of sex as a bargaining chip with you.

I hope you both find your way to a reasonable and peaceful resolution. But stand your ground if you really don’t want to have another child. I’m sure you have your reasons too.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Woman are the gatekeepers of intimacy and sex in the relationship, men are the gatekeepers of commitment.

This whole thing is a power play, and is not how you treat a spouse, but I think the only way that you fix it is to wield what you have power over.

Being passive and allowing her to think that sex means nothing to you is only going to do damage... over time she will wonder if you are actually attracted to her, or maybe not man enough due to your not caring about sex.... which isn't true, but that is what you are intentionally trying to portray to her.

I would be clear that you are upset about what she is doing, it is not right, and that she is doing real damage to the relationship.

Don't eat dinner with her, go to a hotel or family members house for a night.... she needs to get the point that this is a serious problem.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

If she can give sex up this easily, it kind of shows she doesn’t care about it. That might sting but I wouldn’t rather “take care of myself” than be intimate with my husband. To go on a sex strike would most definitely wound me, not just him. I don’t care what point I’d be trying to make, after 90 days I would feel sad that we’re not having sex.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

*Deidre* said:


> If she can give sex up this easily, it kind of shows she doesn’t care about it.


Or she is getting it elsewhere....


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

I don’t think she’s sleeping with somebody else. She enjoys sex and I don’t think she imagined she’d have to hold out so long. I think she really wants to have sex with me again but she is too proud to give in. She continues to tease me in hope that I will either give in about the baby and/or beg her to have sex and she can somehow feel like she’s not the one giving in.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

As a woman - who is old - it offends me greatly when I hear of women who use sex as a weapon or punishment!
I used to know this guy who would tell his wife straight up… IF you don’t - I WILL find someone who will.

it was sort of comical at that time - but sad that any couple would get to that point based off of one partner being selfish and manipulative - with an act that’s supposed to be loving and sacred.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I hate the spite-filled game playing that is used to bully women into subjugation, but honestly, she started it. I can’t imagine being sexually attracted to someone so immature and petty that they’d behave like she is behaving or like posters are recommending you react to it, either of those sets of behaviors would disgust me and I would be done. In your shoes I’d be talking to either a therapist or an attorney. I don’t have anything helpful, I just feel so bad for you. What a horrible situation. I cannot believe adults act like this.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

If it were me - I’d sit her down and say in a VERY calm voice… the recent turn of events has me reconsidering my love for you - based upon how selfish, self centered you’ve been - with regards to a play of power that you know I’ve said I don’t want.
IF you want this THAT badly - I will divorce you now - knowing that you’ve become a person I don’t recognize anymore. This person doesn’t respect me and doesn’t show me love - so I would be ok if this ends.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Beach123 said:


> If it were me - I’d sit her down and say in a VERY calm voice… the recent turn of events has me reconsidering my love for you - based upon how selfish, self centered you’ve been - with regards to a play of power that you know I’ve said I don’t want.
> IF you want this THAT badly - I will divorce you now - knowing that you’ve become a person I don’t recognize anymore. This person doesn’t respect me and doesn’t show me love - so I would be ok if this ends.


This cuts through to the heart of the situation.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’ve recently been reading about dead bedrooms on a few sites and saw a mention of Talk About Marriage on a Reddit post and thought I’d come check this place out in case somebody here might be able to help.
> 
> I suppose you could say I’m experiencing what is the start of a dead bedroom, but it’s not really a typical “my wife just doesn’t want sex anymore” situation. She’s intentionally withholding sex now and what I thought would be a short, stubborn hold out has turned into almost 3 months of no sex.
> 
> ...


I would handle it as a midlife crisis and possibly a mild mental illness that needs treatment.

She needs a full mental and physical work up to rule out anything.

There is probably something pretty deeply buried that is the impetus of her behavior.

I haven't read any other posts but I'd bet my best knife I'm on the right track.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. I'm not joking at all about what she might be going through.

Attention to this sooner would be best.

Women, that have shown similar signs, have done some really destructive things including affairs.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Fair. I know vascectomies are supposed to be reversible, but not having that equipment I can’t speak to how practical a plan that would be. 😬


Vasectomies could be reversed thirty years ago when I got mine. So am sure they can be now.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Vasectomies could be reversed thirty years ago when I got mine. So am sure they can be now.


Perhaps but don’t you have to get an operation on a sensitive spot? H did not appear to particularly enjoy his when he had it done, even though he got some pretty kick-ass meds and binge-watched GOT.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Perhaps but don’t you have to get an operation on a sensitive spot? H did not appear to particularly enjoy his when he had it done, even though he got some pretty kick-ass meds and binge-watched GOT.


Believe me it is no big deal. Local anesthetic, in the doctors office after work. About 30 minutes. Worst part was his female nurse assisting was kinda embarrassing. Used ice bag for few hours off n on to keep swelling down. Back to work next morning. The "operation" is nothing. Gotta wait 2 weeks and get a fertility check to be sure are shooting blanks. 

I DID display hangdog expression and whimpered a little to get wife's sympathy so she would bring me dinner on tray in the living room, basically wait on me hand and foot that evening.

Now the reversal is more involved. He told me it was "micro-surgery" back then so would have to be done in hospital. But heck that was long ago so things proly simpler now.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Believe me it is no big deal. Local anesthetic, in the doctors office after work. About 30 minutes. Worst part was his female nurse assisting was kinda embarrassing. Used ice bag for few hours off n on to keep swelling down. Back to work next morning. The "operation" is nothing. Gotta wait 2 weeks and get a fertility check to be sure are shooting blanks.
> 
> *I DID display hangdog expression and whimpered a little to get wife's sympathy *so she would bring me dinner on tray in the living room, basically wait on me hand and foot that evening.
> 
> Now the reversal is more involved. He told me it was "micro-surgery" back then so would have to be done in hospital. But heck that was long ago so things proly simpler now.


I may have been bamboozled by my husband. 🙄


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Good point. I didn’t see it as passive before. It was more of an effort to just not let her see how much it bothered me, to not let her have the satisfaction of knowing that she was getting any sort of reaction out of me. To just act completely unphased and as if I’m perfectly fine just taking care of myself and don’t need her at all. Now I see that this isn’t working. The reality is I do desperately want to have sex but I won’t let myself beg her for it, no way. She knows what she doing. Last night I was sitting in our den where she has her exercise bike and she came in wearing a push-up sports bra and tiny tight lycra shorts. She was riding her exercise bike and decided “oh, even this is too hot” and took it off mid ride. I just walked out of the room. She normally wears a baggy t shirt when working out at home so this is all very intentional on her part.


Ugh. That is just insulting, if you ask me. I think you're handling it just fine. Like I said earlier, the sooner you flip this to YOU are not willing to have sex because you don't trust her not to have stopped birth control or doing something else, the better. I mean, you should be turned off by her attitude and manipulation by now enough that you're not jonesing THAT bad, I wouldn't think, though certainly at some point you want to get back to normal. You might just tell her you may have to get a vasectomy to ever feel safe having sex with her again after these shenanigans.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

I hate to mention it, but if she is hell bent on having a baby, her husband isn’t the only man able to impregnate her. She wouldn’t be the first woman to go find a man to give her a baby when hubby wouldnt.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> I hate to mention it, but if she is hell bent on having a baby, her husband isn’t the only man able to impregnate her. She wouldn’t be the first woman to go find a man to give her a baby when hubby wouldnt.


And then she'd get the same negative pregnancy attention that she had as a teen mom, although I doubt she is thinking anything through properly, as it sounds.


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## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I may have been bamboozled by my husband. 🙄


A lot of guys don’t follow the post op instructions to take it easy and use an ice pack or frozen peas and then they end up in more pain than should be. My brother in law did this. Instead of resting, went and walked around at a gun show. Next day… big time pain.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> And then she'd get the same negative pregnancy attention that she had as a teen mom, although I doubt she is thinking anything through properly, as it sounds.


She can claim she is pregnant by her husband. Even if some guy at work is the biological father. By the time the dust settles and she is holding a new baby, her husband will be presumed the father by a court and automatically billed for child support.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> She can claim she is pregnant by her husband. Even if some guy at work is the biological father. By the time the dust settles and she is holding a new baby, her husband will be presumed the father by a court and automatically billed for child support.


Not if he knows he didn't have sex with her and gets a DNA test. I doubt she's that silly, but you never know.


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## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

OP, have you considered making efforts to redirect your wife alittle bit? Maybe have some conversation about he the two see yourselves on the next 5-10 years. Are there trips that you two have been wanting to take, etc? If you two have had these conversations recently maybe revisit them. Maybe get her to thinking about the future ahead a something to look forward to instead of focusing on what she doesn’t have right now… another pregnancy. Might be hard to have honest conversations with here in the mode she’s in though.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Talk about getting pregnant by somebody at work…she just got home from work a little bit ago and ran to the bathroom to throw up. First thing she said was “don’t worry, not pregnant!” She looks as white as a ghost. Despite how she’s been behaving I still want to help her when she’s sick. I got her into bed and she told me she’s still on birth control and said that she’s really not pregnant she just feels really sick all of a sudden. I was planning to try to sit her down to have a conversation with both of us being able to fully express our feeling about the situation no matter how long it took, but it’ll have to wait.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

re16 said:


> Or she is getting it elsewhere....


Hmm, I don’t get the sense that she’s seeing anyone else.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Lotsofheart73 said:


> A lot of guys don’t follow the post op instructions to take it easy and use an ice pack or frozen peas and then they end up in more pain than should be. My brother in law did this. Instead of resting, went and walked around at a gun show. Next day… big time pain.


Oh he rested. Spent the weekend watching TV and napping while I waited on him. If only he would use his powers for good. 🙄 I am on the fence if the OPs wife is worth the pain.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Oh he rested. Spent the weekend watching TV and napping while I waited on him.


The whole weekend?!? Wow! He is really good. I cant get away with that with my wife.

A little inconvenience well worth OP peace of mind. In two weeks no way is he the Daddy. I knew a guy at work who got cut without telling wife. Six months later she gets pregnant 😮 Busted!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Talk about getting pregnant by somebody at work…she just got home from work a little bit ago and ran to the bathroom to throw up. First thing she said was “don’t worry, not pregnant!” She looks as white as a ghost. Despite how she’s been behaving I still want to help her when she’s sick. I got her into bed and she told me she’s still on birth control and said that she’s really not pregnant she just feels really sick all of a sudden. I was planning to try to sit her down to have a conversation with both of us being able to fully express our feeling about the situation no matter how long it took, but it’ll have to wait.


How would she know she's not pregnant? 

Have you seen any of those little pregnancy tests around?

Anyway I hope she's okay and not pregnant.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Whenever her period is supposed to be sure and investigate and make sure she's having one. Check the bathroom trash.

Check both bathrooms trash for tampons, pads, or pregnancy tests.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> How would she know she's not pregnant?


Why would she say that she isnt? She hasn’t had sex for three months with her husband. Wouldn’t think that would enter her head if it weren’t possible.

Unless she got pregnant before the dry spell started. Or from some other source.

My wife typically get sick until 2-3 months in. But usually early in day, not late in day


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> Why would she say that she isnt? She hasn’t had sex for three months with her husband. Wouldn’t think that would enter her head if it weren’t possible.
> 
> Unless she got pregnant before the dry spell started. Or from some other source.
> 
> My wife typically get sick until 2-3 months in. But usually early in day, not late in day


I'm guessing she was just being sarcastic and rubbing it in some more, but it was an odd comment considering she really is sick. Her behavior is worrisome. But he's planning on having more talks with her.

She's just being very disrespectful to him and coercive. Just me me me.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I actually don’t think this has anything to do with wanting attention. She’s not an attention seeker. I think it very well could have to do with suddenly feeling old because she’s about to become a grandmother. That mixed with all of the fuzzy thoughts she has thinking about a new baby coming and realizing that she actually wants that for herself and not just via being a grandparent. She may genuinely regret not having another child years ago when it would have made more sense - she was very focused on school and her career for many years and I’d even say she probably felt stronger about not having anymore children for a while. I probably easily would have had another for about a period of 10 years or so in there somewhere but she was too busy to want that at the time.



I think this is largely what is taking place. This is where individual therapy for her can be beneficial. 

She was teen mom. She got all the lectures and all the scorn and judgement for having a baby "too soon" and the societal narrative of get an education and get a good career before having kids was beaten into her. 

So you two struggled and skimped worked your asses off to provide for your family and raise your son while also pursuing educations and developing your careers etc. 

So she did "the right thing" by working what jobs and hours she could, studying at night between diaper changes and doctor's appointments and parent-teacher conferences and sitting out in the rain and the cold and the scorching heat for soccer games and baseball games etc while juggling college and jobs and child rearing etc. 

So now she has crossed the goal line and spiked the ball in the endzone of life. She now educated, gainfully employed as a professional and is fit and healthy and vital and has accomplished all the things women are being told to do in order to have kids and families.......... and now she is 40 and being told no by her current husband. 

She has a decision to make here as well. At 40 her chances of complications and birth defects etc is statistically higher but she is fit and healthy and likely has a good sense of prenatal care and developed and mature body and the means of supporting another child financially. 

When looked at it in these terms, her desire is at least understandable. It's not ideal for sure, but she's not crazy. She may be getting influenced by Baby Rabies with impending menopause, but she isn't crazy. 

But she does have some serious decisions to make. You are in right to not want to father and raise another child. 
But she is in her right to try to see if she can. She is in her right to exit this marriage and seek another man that would want to have a child and family with her. 

If she is as fit , youthful and attractive as you claim. There will be guys lined up down the street doing the Pick Me! Dance. Yes, they will be simps and betas and 40 year old virgins. But she has already proven she is not in this for sex, and simps and betas and 40 year old virgins usually have good jobs and good incomes. Between that and their sperm, that is all she needs. 

This is where the professional therapy will come in. Therapy will help her sort out all these conflicting feelings and prioritize and help her come to a decision and to make an action plan whether to stay or leave.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Talk about getting pregnant by somebody at work…she just got home from work a little bit ago and ran to the bathroom to throw up. First thing she said was “don’t worry, not pregnant!” She looks as white as a ghost. Despite how she’s been behaving I still want to help her when she’s sick. I got her into bed and she told me she’s still on birth control and said that she’s really not pregnant she just feels really sick all of a sudden. I was planning to try to sit her down to have a conversation with both of us being able to fully express our feeling about the situation no matter how long it took, but it’ll have to wait.


Seriously dude? 😂


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## AlwaysImproving (5 mo ago)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Good point. I didn’t see it as passive before. It was more of an effort to just not let her see how much it bothered me, to not let her have the satisfaction of knowing that she was getting any sort of reaction out of me. To just act completely unphased and as if I’m perfectly fine just taking care of myself and don’t need her at all. Now I see that this isn’t working. The reality is I do desperately want to have sex but I won’t let myself beg her for it, no way. She knows what she doing. Last night I was sitting in our den where she has her exercise bike and she came in wearing a push-up sports bra and tiny tight lycra shorts. She was riding her exercise bike and decided “oh, even this is too hot” and took it off mid ride. I just walked out of the room. She normally wears a baggy t shirt when working out at home so this is all very intentional on her part.


I'm with @re16 on this that I feel your response has been too passive. I could possibly understand your lack of decisive action if this really is the first time you've encountered this. I've spent time in a marriage with a manipulative woman who used sex to get what she want. When it first happened to me, I didn't know how to react, either, and it took me a long time to learn the hard truth that once she started using sex as a weapon, that it would continue to repeat time and time again. This desperation you are feeling to have sex with her is the exact thing she wants you to feel. It is now her power over you and you are letting her have it. The choice is yours, you can learn the hard way or learn from the experience of others. 

I guess if there is a silver lining to this, after another couple of years from now your boundaries will be so bold and strong that women will fall to the ground when they run into them in the future.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> The whole weekend?!? Wow! He is really good. I cant get away with that with my wife.
> 
> A little inconvenience well worth OP peace of mind. In two weeks no way is he the Daddy. I knew a guy at work who got cut without telling wife. Six months later she gets pregnant 😮 Busted!


Oh this was a while ago. Baby was born in 2009, we only ever wanted one and so he had it done in, I guess, 2011? Said I’d been the one on BC and then a grew a human, it was his turn. I’d have waited on him all weekend even if I’d known the recovery time was shorter. He’s pretty spoiled.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Oh this was a while ago. Baby was born in 2009, we only ever wanted one and so he had it done in, I guess, 2011? Said I’d been the one on BC and then a grew a human, it was his turn. I’d have waited on him all weekend even if I’d known the recovery time was shorter. He’s pretty spoiled.


Yass.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

“Until I feel like it”

Id buy some new clothes, and be out with a single guy friend. You are a passive fool of you sit by and take this. You’re setting yourself up for bigger problems by doing NOTHING because she is doing and saying outrageous things and learning you won’t respond with anything but a “talk”.

Honestly, you’re far better at marriage than I am. So take my thoughts for what they’re worth. But from the outside looking in, you’re training her to start pulling childish bs on you and I believe it’s past time for a stern consequence that she isn’t expecting. If that’s divorce papers, so be it. I know you don’t want that, but if you let this disrespect continue to ride, I foresee the disrespect popping up again. And again. That’s just how people are. When they sense weakness they go for the throat.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> wow! This is exactly what I was talking about.
> 
> men just suck it up. Give the little lady another human being if she wants one. Forget about your silly and childish interests and wants and needs. All you gotta do is pick up another 20-30 hours a week to help pay for it all and get up with her at night for feedings and changing s and when you do get home from your second or third job at 10 pm, take over the child care and household chores for awhile so she can get off her feet for awhile. Motorcycles are silly and you went hunting and fishing with your goofy buddies last year.
> 
> ...


This is about valuing your marriage and partner through thick and thin. This is a *till death do us part* level of commitment. 

I am NO pushover as a man and able to make time for 'my own activities' _*but*_ I take my martial vows seriously. 

I can see from where OP is coming from. He have had a kid with his now wife in his teens, and have missed the opportunity to have adventures in his younger years. But this is true for his wife as well. Both have made sacrifices for each other in hindsight. 

I am NOT telling OP to overlook HIS needs _*but*_ to find a way to have fulfilling experiences with his wife by discussing his problems with her instead of expecting intimacy from her *when *she is pissed at him for his refusal to have another baby with her. Her biological clock is ticking and she is caught between the rock and a hard place in view of her situation.

OP's statement in post # 61 for reference: _"She probably could have convinced me if this desire had come up 10-15 years ago. Heck maybe even 5 years ago (probably not, but a greater chance then right now)."_

Is this man for real? A wife might NOT be very clear about her every need in a marriage [years in advance]. She can make up her mind about something *when* she feels strongly about it. Women are regarded as EMOTIONAL BEINGS for a reason. Some men have commented that OP is being rational but they seem to forget that women are more likely to be driven by emotions in their decision-making in comparison to men.

OP's wife might come to terms with the realization that her husband is not willing to have another child with her (possible). *But* she might harbor resentment for OP deep down. Now that she is in a good shape and more [complete package???], she is very likely to receive attention form other men as well. With her resentment in the mix, what can possibly go wrong down the road? OP should take his time and explore 'Coping with Infidelity' and 'Sex in Marriage' sections of this forum. He will find many horror stories here.

On the flip side, OP and his wife (Couple 1) can have talks with their son and daughter-in-law (Couple 2) about looking after each other's kid when either couple wants to go on a vacation or have some adult only time with each other. Both couples can benefit from this arrangement in my view. For perspective, WE (me and my wife) can leave our kid at home with her grandmother [my mother] when WE decide to have an outing as a couple [just the two of us]. Some family member(s) can be of much help in these situations so why not tap them for the needful? 

OP is [more] concerned about HOW his wife LOOKS in the present *than* HOW to move forward with her in his life (see post # 66). It is absolutely fine to encourage wife to work out and keep herself in good shape but this consideration should NOT be at the expense of her feelings and needs in a marriage. OP's wife can continue with her work out plan after childbirth and can recover at a much faster pace with it. She have experience and knowledge on her side. She can also choose to use a high quality formula milk to feed her baby. These matters can be discussed with her.

OP have also assumed that his wife cannot find another quality man to settle down with and have a child with him (see post # 46). How can he be certain about this? There are cases of (young) men who have married and/or accepted an older women [with kids] in their lives. There [will be] men out there who [will be] willing to embrace OP's wife and give her what she wants as well. She is well-educated, have kept herself in good shape, and have demonstrated commitment in her relationship. How is she not a prize to other men? Does he look down upon his wife or something?

OP have had his ego stoked in this thread but he should NOT take his martial situation for granted. He is risking loosing an attractive wife, his marriage, and 50% of his marital assets otherwise. 

One of the comments from a member of this forum is following: _"Today, the West is not about faithfulness, commitment, covenant but more like disposable relationships."_

Thought provoking, right?

@CoffeeandTV


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

So giving her whatever she wants (a 20 year commitment to another baby) is the way to keep her? I don’t think so. I don’t know the solution. Ideally, his wife would conclude after lots of thought that it’s not fair to her husband. But she’s had three months and us still being just as big of a selfish jerk.
She wants what she wants. She can’t help it. But having a baby has to be a we thing and not an I thing. What she’s asking is hugely unfair.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Don’t worry I’m not pregnant… hmmmmm

and why would anyone think she would be pregnant when you had no sex for THREE months? Is she that dense? Or that inconsiderate of YOUR feelings?

damn - I think I’d be worried and demand a pregnancy test after that comment!!!

and do NOT plan a vacation!!! … as someone suggested! That is just rewarding her terribly selfish behavior!


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> So giving her whatever she wants (a 20 year commitment to another baby) is the way to keep her? I don’t think so. I don’t know the solution. Ideally, his wife would conclude after lots of thought that it’s not fair to her husband. But she’s had three months and us still being just as big of a selfish jerk.
> She wants what she wants. She can’t help it. But having a baby has to be a we thing and not an I thing. What she’s asking is hugely unfair.


Maybe enough so that if she wants a baby at all costs - that she just got pregnant by some other dude! I hope not!


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Check her phone…. Please don’t tell me you don’t have access…


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I wouldn’t be catering to her too much while she has nausea… considering she hasn’t been taking care of YOUR needs!


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I remember reading a good quote once...''When in doubt, do nothing.'' It means that if the right course of action isn't immediately clear at the moment, just wait...don't act out of emotion or haste. Easier said than done. 😌


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I do think you need to bring a pregnancy test home and have her take it in front of you just in case there's some unknown shenanigans going on here. You can just buy them at the drugstore or order one on Amazon to be delivered overnight.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She suddenly has nausea and us exclaiming don’t worry I’m not pregnant! When you haven’t had sex for three months. That is ringing in my ears. As someone else posted, I agree it’s time for a pregnancy test. Looking like you may have been hornswoggled


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

She will always resent you for saying no to having another child. If you have a vasectomy, she will resent you even more. If you are the one standing between her and having another kid, you will always be the one that stood in the way.

You can only seek to minimize the damage her resentment has on your life.

I suspect the only possible way to do that is to walk away, now. Set her free to find someone else while she still has time. If the jolt of the loss of you immediately triggers an awakening in her, a reassessment of your value strongly towards the positive, then consider how sincere and complete that appears to be, but don’t forget how she has behaved.

My wife resents the vasectomy I had when she was 42+, we had no plans to have more kids, she never complained about it at the time. With some people, you can’t win. Even when the game played in their head was detached enough from reality they didn’t really have skin in the game. Set her free, and let her get out on the field.

Easy for me to say. But, I’m pretty sure you lose most by just enduring her current behavior.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

She may come to her senses eventually if she hasn't already gotten pregnant some way. When the grandbaby is about two or three years old, she may realize her folly because it is hard to keep up with them at that age. Between picking them up all the time and chasing behind them bent over to keep a hand on them, my friend completely ruined her back.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

If she is pregnant then a DNA test is clearly in order.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Good god - I’d be running to the market now to get a pregnancy test tonight.


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## AlwaysImproving (5 mo ago)

@CoffeeandTV have you thought about how this is going to end? What does a successful end to this look like? "Ok, I'm sorry, you can have sex with me again." Is that going to be good enough? Sure you can barrel through your pent up libido, but after that is taken care of, what really is a proper repentance on her part to make up for this behavior? From your posts, this has gone far past an emotional disagreement.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Is she always this stubborn when you two disagree?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

The reason he is more right than she is even though it's just a difference of opinion and wants is because she should not be trying to clear someone who doesn't want a child into having one because that's not fair to the child. 

Unless she just changes her mind there's going to be resentment either with him or with her so it might as well be her since she's the one that acted so badly.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> This is about valuing your marriage and partner through thick and thin. This is a *till death do us part* level of commitment.
> 
> I am NO pushover as a man and able to make time for 'my own activities' _*but*_ I take my martial vows seriously.
> 
> ...


You'd make a good sunday morning church sermon on how to compromise and capitulate in order to make it to your death bed with your wedding ring on. 

That's all fine and dandy but the issue here is he does not want to go through that again at this stage of his life. 

Even though you did not intend it to sound this way, what I am coming away with from your post is he should suck it up and upend his life and go back to diaper changes and warming formula and cleaning up baby puke all over again at this age because his wife is pretty and if he doesn't do it, she will find someone else who will. 

OK, but he is aware of this and stated in a post that he is willing to accept that risk that she may leave and find someone else. He is making the informed decision that he would rather divorce than have another child. 

That may not be the choice you would make, but it is his. 

And I think you completely misunderstood his post #66. Yes he said her figure would not bounce back as quickly at 40 than it did at 16. Well duh! 

But he clearly communicated that if he did want another child, that her figure would be the last thing on his mind and that this is not about her appearance. He does not want another child because he does not want to go through that again and wants to live a completely different life and different lifestyle than raising another child at this point in his life. 

PLEASE RESPECT THAT. 

You don't have to agree with his decision and you don't have make the same life choices that he does. But he understands and accepts the risks and benefits and even though he is a man, he still has a right to make his own reproductive choices just as a woman would.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> So giving her whatever she wants (a 20 year commitment to another baby) is the way to keep her?


I guess I am not the only one that interpreted that post as saying that he should capitulate on his own lifestyle and reproductive choices to keep a pretty girl around. 

That's how we get all these chumps with 6 and more kids that are working 3 jobs and are dead inside because their wife always wants more and he's afraid if he doesn't comply that she will find someone who will. ......... and there's always someone else out there who will so they give it up and ask their boss(s) if they can pick up another holiday shift so they can get the holiday bonus.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> I guess I am not the only one that interpreted that post as saying that he should capitulate on his own lifestyle and reproductive choices to keep a pretty girl around.
> 
> That's how we get all these chumps with 6 and more kids that are working 3 jobs and are dead inside because their wife always wants more and he's afraid if he doesn't comply that she will find someone who will. ......... and there's always someone else out there who will so they give it up and ask their boss(s) if they can pick up another holiday shift so they can get the holiday bonus.


Well, OP is not a chump to begin with. He can stand his ground and/or stubborn when it suits him. His wife never pushed him to give her 6 or more babies, right? She wants to try for [one more] NOW when she touched 40. Just look at her history; she became a mom in her teens and never had time to explore her options and have a shot at a comfortable lifestyle with a man in her 20s. I think you made some good observations in following post:









Wife intentionally withholding sex for 3 months


Good point. I didn’t see it as passive before. It was more of an effort to just not let her see how much it bothered me, to not let her have the satisfaction of knowing that she was getting any sort of reaction out of me. To just act completely unphased and as if I’m perfectly fine just taking...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





People are berating OP's wife for withholding intimacy from her husband for like 3 months [I suppose this is not a norm in this marriage?] due to his refusal to respect her feelings and needs when he is at his zenith because he wants to have outings and vacations with her? He can have outings and vacations with her regardless of a baby in the mix. I have already pointed out in my previous post that HOW he can do this.

OP seems to have little idea about how much the world have changed around him while he was BUSY building his life with his wife who have taken care of herself [and him]. He seems to under-appreciate her and undervalue her. He is in for a rude awakening in fact. Many men be willing to do much to [win over] an attractive woman who also happens to be wifey material. Labels such as simp and beta will not change this reality or something natural. If he wants to throw away a good marriage for some adventures [which will cost hefty sums by the way], be my guest. This is his life, his decisions, and consequences to bear with them. I chose to not stoke his ego but CAUTION him in good faith.

People have been through much worse and still attempted to make a marriage work. This guy have it much better and he is still complaining.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Well, OP is not a chump to begin with. He can stand his ground and/or stubborn when it suits him. His wife never pushed him to give her 6 or more babies, right? She wants to try for [one more] NOW when she touched 40. Just look at her history; she became a mom in her teens and never had time to explore her options and have a shot at a comfortable lifestyle with a man in her 20s. I think you made some good observations in following post:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He wasn’t complaining - he simply stated he decided he doesn’t want another baby!

That’s his right! No matter what his lifestyle!

Expecting sex within the marriage is normal. With holding sex to a spouse on purpose to punish isn’t kind. 

Stop trying to make this the fault of the OP. He doesn’t want another baby - there is nothing wrong with making that decision.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Her exact words tonight: “I want a baby. You won’t even consider it. You’re the only person who can give that to me. I’m mad and I’m hurt and I’m going to keep being mad and hurt for a while.” 

I told her I’m not the only person who can give that to her and she shot up and said “What do you mean?!” I asked her how badly she wanted it and how badly she wanted to stay married to me. Somehow that turned me into the bad guy too “I can’t believe you’d even say that?” So on and so forth.

I think some people here who have suggested I take a harder line may be into something after all. At least tonight spurred on a bit of a different reaction from her.

I’ll admit though that I feel bad that I can’t give her what she wants. It’d be much easier if we just wanted the same thing.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Buddy you need to sit your wife down and explain very clearly to her that your marriage is under threat here because of her actions. She seems to see this as a game and thinks she’s winning. 
You need to make it very clear that the end result could be you both going your separate ways.
I’m not much younger than you and if my wife pulled this crap I would be talking to a lawyer and I would make damn sure my wife knew that I was talking to one.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Don’t let her turn you into the bad guy — you aren’t. The two of you just have different goals and when that happens, one person wins and one person loses. She’ll either get over this loss she’s facing or she won’t.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Well, OP is not a chump to begin with. He can stand his ground and/or stubborn when it suits him. His wife never pushed him to give her 6 or more babies, right? She wants to try for [one more] NOW when she touched 40. Just look at her history; she became a mom in her teens and never had time to explore her options and have a shot at a comfortable lifestyle with a man in her 20s. I think you made some good observations in following post:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think he is complaining. He is stating he doesn't want any more kids. 

I also do not see any of this as stoking his ego. I'm not sure where you are even getting that. A good number of people have been supportive that he has a right to not have any more kids at this stage of his life. But they have also been upfront that this all good spell the end of his marriage or at least make her very resentful if they do remain together. Some have even been like you and have told him to just suck it up and give her what she wants,, so I do not see any ego stoking place here at all. 

Now yes, you are correct that there will be men out there that will line up to be her new baby daddy. But the reality is they will be betas and simps. Sorry for the labels but any guy that would take in a 40 year old so she can have a baby is a thirsty beta that would do anything for a few nights of sex with a purdy girl. 

She's obviously has no qualms with turning off the sex spigot so while she may be a porn star in bed in the beginning, once she's pregnant and bloating and then an exhausted 40something year old changing diapers and cleaning up baby puke again, that spigot is going to get turned off pretty much permanently. 

If she does split with the OP to find a chump, she's going to be looking for a sperm donor with a paycheck that will have her. Oh don't worry, they'll be lined up down the street all doing the Pick Me! Dance. But once they've set up house and she has the bun in the oven, that guy will be posting here in a few years that they had hot MILF sex in the beginning until she got pregnant a few years ago but that she hasn't touched him since. 

Sure, the OP will be sad as she's driving away with the Uhaul. 

But when she's hauling a colicky baby to doctor's office for umpteeth time while he is out dating women that don't want any more kids either, he will thank his lucky stars he dodged that bullet. He may even feel a tad bit sorry for the chump that jumped at the chance to snatch her up...... but only for a moment. 

But enough of my musings. At the end of the day this is about agency and free choice. There are people in the world that don't want women to have free choice over their reproductivity and they are willing to bomb clinics and assassinate doctors to stop it. And it looks like there are people that do not want men to have choice over their reproductive rights either.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Beach123 said:


> He wasn’t complaining - he simply stated he decided he doesn’t want another baby!
> 
> That’s his right! No matter what his lifestyle!
> 
> ...


Who wants to have sex with a person when said person is perceived to be causing martial problems? Intimacy can take a back seat in this situation. Let us be realistic in our expectations from any person in real life. It is easy to judge others from a distance.

I cannot fault OP's wife either given her situation and how she feels about it. She is simply not on the same page with her husband about what she wants from him. The two are at an impasse and can part ways from here.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

To clarify, we’ve had sex a few times during the past 3 months. The last time was a couple of weeks ago. Each time, she mentions a baby and/or getting pregnant sometime during the sex. The last 2 times it happened I decided I’d probably just be safer to pull out.

We went from several times a week to not even several times a month. Honestly, lately all of the baby and pregnancy talk has killed the mood for me anyway so it’s made it a bit easier to go without, but then all it takes is seeing her running around in her bra and underwear in the morning as she’s getting ready for work and I’m ready to go in about a millisecond and having to spend the rest of the day trying to tune out the thoughts as if I’m a horny teenager.

I realized that as much as she’s been saying “you can’t have any sex” I’ve been countering back with “fine! I don’t need sex with you anyway!” I’ve just recognized how stupid I’ve been. I will not force her to hav sex. I would never force her. But I believe it’s time for me to change my approach and tell her we’re married, we will be having sec like we used to and we will not be doing it to make a baby and that if she is not going to be interested in that again then we really do need to have a serious discussion about the direction of our relationship. I thought me showing her I could survive just fine without sex with her for however long she wanted to hold out was not giving up control, but in her mind she’s got all of the control now because she sees this as me going along with what she’s decided (no baby = no sex). When I first posted here I just thought she was being childish and stubborn, which she is, but now I realize that it’s actually probably a lot worse than that.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Well, OP is not a chump to begin with. He can stand his ground and/or stubborn when it suits him. His wife never pushed him to give her 6 or more babies, right? She wants to try for [one more] NOW when she touched 40. Just look at her history; she became a mom in her teens and never had time to explore her options and have a shot at a comfortable lifestyle with a man in her 20s. I think you made some good observations in following post:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sure, we can have vacations with a little kid in the picture. But then we have school schedules to contend with, planning family friendly travel, or hauling the kid to grandma and grandpa‘a for the week while go off and have an adults-only vacation, only for her to talk about how much she misses the baby back home, frets about whether he’s doing ok or choking on some sort of inedible object at that very moment because the grandparents aren’t watching him closely enough and oh no, she better call home to check in now and maybe we could consider leaving a day or two early, next time let’s just make it a quick weekend getaway close to home in case something happens.

There’s also the fact that when a child is involved they come first. In my opinion, if I have a child at home their wants and needs come first, their activities are priority, and our whole lives revolve around this little human. Then there’s the awkward middle school years, the teen years, the paying for college, the entire physical and emotional rollercoaster of amazing times as well as huge challenges. Knowing that’s what we gave our son how could we not give another child the same thing? I couldn’t live with myself just phoning it in as a parent. It might sound selfish to some, but I can’t imagine doing that all again right now. I graduated high school as the father of an infant and that was my doing and I took responsibility for my actions. From the moment she said she was keeping the baby I didn’t complain about my life no longer being about me or about all of my lost opportunities, I just focused on what I had to do in my new role. Maybe I sound childish, but I want me time now. My wife and I never got to just be a couple on our own enjoying each other. Well, we did for a few months before she got pregnant, but it’s not the same as being an adult couple together. Now is the time we can finally do whatever we want and we have the youth, time, and money to enjoy it. Yes you can be a parent and enjoy your life at the same time. I’ve enjoyed my life, loved raising my son and managed to have a lot of fun with him along the way. We’ll always be our son’s parents and that’s a role I will always take very seriously. I would do just about anything for him, but he doesn’t need us in the same way that a baby or young kid does. So we have another baby now and I have to delay me/us time until I’m in my 60s? No, that doesn’t sound appealing to me.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Talk of your dislike of her current behavior and floating the possible outcomes of all this doesn’t have to be a power struggle or a threat. To some extent, the trajectory your marriage follows could soon be out of both sets of hands.

Differences re having children happen, and people want what they want. You may or may not be able to resolve this difference to both your satisfaction. How people handle such differences matters greatly. Her being angry you want what you want, and seeing you as the reason she doesn’t get what she is entitled to, doesn’t seem fair or bode well for your relationship, and I’d communicate that to her. Her withholding sex and intimacy is going to have consequences the longer it goes on, perhaps whether you try to not let it impact how you feel or not. Her taunting you with her inaccessible sexuality is just plain mean and childish, and you should tell her clearly that is the case. The likelihood she is going to resent you for this the rest of your life is a fear you should share with her, if you indeed have this fear.

The thing you both should make sure you each understand is, some damage cannot be reversed once it occurs. How you both handle this may determine whether your marriage survives and thrives, or dies a painful death and perhaps quite slowly.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Is it possible your wife wants to not work anymore and this is her excuse to stay home?

Has she realized that a baby IS coming in to your world and she would see a baby often? (Given IF your son lives close by) 

We have a new baby in the family and get to enjoy a newborn often these days.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Her quick response to turn you into the bad guy is a horrible reaction on her part. That is just SO wrong. 

She obviously doesn’t see how self centered and cruel she is being. At this point I feel sorry for you. She doesn’t fight fair.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

I’d ask her, what if you two can’t get to the point where you want the same thing…how are you two going to handle that…does she think love will survive, and resentment and anger will fade away, or are you two never going to get back to what you had before. 

I’d ask her what is at stake, and does she think it possible that the stakes are so high and there is risk that you and her handle this so badly your marriage never recovers.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Whoa peeps, so many jumping straight to divorce, slow down.

This is one of those rare situations where there is no compromise. One of you will have to give in. It would be beneficial to discuss this with a third party, so that you both get the chance to lay it all out on the table.

It would be so sad to see a good marriage end because of this recent issue, sad for both of you, your son, your grandchild. Neither of you are wrong, you're just so far apart on what the right way to go is.

Just to add, what your wife is doing withholding sex to punish you, is really REALLY crappy and she needs to cut out that BS now. I too advise you to wear a condom if she has a change of heart and agrees to sex again.

Good luck OP, I really hope this works out well.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> To clarify, we’ve had sex a few times during the past 3 months. The last time was a couple of weeks ago.





CoffeeandTV said:


> I thought would be a short, stubborn hold out has turned into almost 3 months of no sex.


So I guess you can't keep your story straight. Given that, what else have you twisted in this account between your wife that isn't really true either?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Personal said:


> So I guess you can't keep your story straight. Given that, what else have you twisted in this account between your wife that isn't really true either?


It’s not a matter of twisting anything. In my very first post I included the following:

“The times where she has agreed to actual sex it seems to be going great but then she’ll ask if I’ll give her a baby or some similar comment and I say no and then she gets mad. A few times I’ve actually just played along with it so she wouldn’t get mad and stop right before we reach the best part,”I also mentioned in a previous post that I pulled out the past few times, so I’ve not hid that we’ve had sex a few times during the past 3 months.

We’ve had sex 5 times in the past 3 months. Seeing as how we used to have sex often 5 times a week, going from that to 5 times total in 3 months is virtually the same as no sex to me, but on a technical level it isn’t exactly no sex at all. She has absolutely refused each time I’ve initiated it. Those 5 times were because she decided she wanted to do it. So if you want to get bent out of shape over that and accuse me of twisting things then go ahead. Anyone who feels that 5 times in 3 months and only when your wife says so is a regular sex life and not a case of somebody withholding sex (not to mention that she’s declared that’s what she’s doing to “punish” me), especially if you’re used to an average of 5 times a week, please raise your hand.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> Is it possible your wife wants to not work anymore and this is her excuse to stay home?
> 
> Has she realized that a baby IS coming in to your world and she would see a baby often? (Given IF your son lives close by)
> 
> We have a new baby in the family and get to enjoy a newborn often these days.


I don’t think it has to do with wanting to stay home. She actually enjoys her career and is doing something she loves.

She realizes that a baby is coming but says it’s not the same as having her own. She’s right and I can at least understand that. Oh she’ll love her grandchild but she thankfully realizes he or she will be her grandchild and that she cannot overstep the bounds. Because she was so young when she had our son her parents overstepped the bounds a lot so she knows the importance of not doing that. I don’t think she’s realizing how great this will be though. They live close and we’ll see the baby a lot. I feel bad for her that instead of just being happy about the situation, she’s letting her newfound desire for a baby overshadow her happiness about becoming a grandparent. I can’t even say “grandma” around her. I really think the “grandma” thing is a huge part of this. There’s a visible wince if we say that word. She says “I will not be called grandma.” She’s still trying to decide what she’ll be called, but it just can’t make her sound old, whatever it is.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Wow! There's been a LOT of posts in the past 24 hours! But if I were you OP, I'd disregard the majority of them. Unless you just want to be divorced. Unless sex is more important than your wife.

But I don't think it is. I think you're a great husband. Every post you've written shows how much you care about your wife and how well you understand her motives. She's not some evil, manipulative b*tch like so many have vilified her to be. She sounds like a nice woman who's just had a change of heart regarding childbearing. What she's doing withholding sex is obviously not nice. But it sounds like it is out of character for her and has been exacerbated by your reactions and comments to her taunts. Like I said before, you both are standing on opposite sides, neither willing to budge an inch.

I truly can see where she's coming from and I feel sorry for her. She may be hurting so much that she is unable to enjoy sex with you. I know if my husband was keeping me from having the one thing I wanted most, I wouldn't feel much like being intimate with him. But I also feel sorry for you. (I was in a sexless marriage for months due to my husband's lack of interest in me.) Still, if you want to fix this, please, please, please DON'T give her ultimatums and threats. That is NOT going to make her want to resume relations with you. Neither is telling her she could have a baby with someone else. (If my husband said that to me it would break my heart and make me feel like he didn't give a damn about me.) She wants you. She just needs to feel like you're on her side and not against her.

The best way is if by some miracle you could reach a joint decision to either have another baby or remain free of young children. Otherwise, which ever of you gets your way is going to cause resentment in the other. Most people on here seem to be anti-child (or at least anti-child in your 40's). My husband and I are in our 40's and have young children (and one due in a few months!). All are healthy and it isn't unusually hard on us physically. So I don't think age is a good reason not to have another baby. I do, however, think that the fact you've never gotten to spend much time alone, focused on your marriage is a good reason. My husband and I waited 10 years into our marriage before having kids. So we got to experience plenty of time focused on us. I understand why you'd want that.

I don't know if there is a perfect solution for your situation, where everyone gets exactly what they want, without a change of heart by someone. I would advise both of you to talk to each other and imagine how the other would feel if they don't get their way. Who will be the most hurt and bitter? If you don't have another baby, will she be devastated for years (or the rest of her life) or will she get over it once the grandbaby arrives? If you do have another baby, will you never forgive her and feel it ruined your middle-aged years, or will you get over it once baby arrives?

Just a note from my own personal experiences with this issue: My mom never got over my dad not wanting a bigger family. She's pretty old and still is hurt by his decision to not have more kids with her, although they stayed together. However, my husband agreed to have a bigger family with me than he had originally wanted. I am so unbelievably grateful to him for his willingness to make my dreams come true. It's the best gift he's ever given me. And he LOVES our family!


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## DaringGreatly (7 mo ago)

First of all congratulations on a long lasting happy marriage (till recently) and beating the odds. 

It would be easier if you both wanted the same thing but you don't and the chances are high that you are going to be the winner and she is going to be the loser over a life changing decision. 

There are some big emotions that come with that for the loser. 
You wife has three big life events all happening at the same time 

1. She 40. That's a big deal for a lot of men and women. For you it might happen at 50 and she will have to be your support. 

2. She is about to become a grandmother. That's a huge power shift from person in their prime and in control to person on the sidelines. 

3. The door on her chance to have another baby is closing. Both in her relationship and with her body. There is a big difference between we don't want anymore kids (but have the option to change our minds) and there is no choice, no more kids are happening. You know this yourself with your reluctance to have a vasectomy. 

I agree with lots of the other posters that being passive and letting her act out is the least successful and more frustrating route. 

But starting a tit for tat war is a one way ticket to a divorce or a dead bedroom and you have both come to far to end up there 
But I think a better solution is to help her through the life changes that is happening. 

She needs someone to vent these feelings to. A therapist or an older female who can listen and not judge while she comes to terms with her new situation. 

You also need to listen (not because your gonna change yout mind but because she needs to feel heard) 
You need to let her cry her eyes out and hold her while she does it, even though your pissed at the lack of intimacy. If she is missing the connection too its likely to spark something 

To allow her to feel heard I would ask her to draw up the pros and cons for each life choice. Your life together having a baby and you life together without another kid and being awesome grandparents and having freedom to do awesome couple things. And really listen to her so you can help her. 

The fact you speak so highly of her after 20 years of marriage means you have been a great team. And she is essentially a good person going through a difficult time. 

As you are the one getting the outcome you want you can afford to be somewhat understanding (with limits). 

If she was the type to get pregnant without your consent she would have done it already and just produced a positive test one day but she didn't she came to you and made a case for having another baby because she wants to be a family, with you on board because you have be an awesome dad and husband. She didn't take the decision out of your hands. 

Hold her as often as you can during this difficult period in her life. You BOTH need the connection. This will not pass overnight, life altering events need time for adjustment but if you support you team mate while they are struggling as you did during those difficult teenage years you will both come out of it even stronger.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> When looked at it in these terms, her desire is at least understandable. It's not ideal for sure, but she's not crazy. She may be getting influenced by Baby Rabies with impending menopause, but she isn't crazy.


Honestly, I feel sorry for her and understand her drive for another child. And you summarize the situation perfectly. She played by all of the rules and arrived at early middle age intact having weathered all of the storms. It would be similar to having lived in a cheap apartment for 20 years saving to build a dream home in the mountains only to be told by the spouse there is no way in h3ll they are going to move to the mountains.

In OP's shoes, if she were my wife, and *IF* she hadn't pulled the withholding sex thing, I would be inclined to have another child with her. Yes it is a lot of work and money, but the investment is well worth the time and money spent. They already did it once, the second time ought to be easier. They are acually pretty young to be empty nesters anyway.

He and his wife have been together for all of their adult lives, sad to think this could destroy that marriage. In his shoes, I would have a series of discussions about the ramifications of having another child. All the things that will impact their lives. Give her the opportunity to convince with logic that it is doable, and confirm just how committed she is to this path. And, he ought to seriously consider his own objections to confirm that they all hold water.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

There are a lot of comments here so forgive me if you’ve already addressed my questions.

First, I see lots of comments trashing the wife. I suppose it's easier to label her a selfish ***** you should divorce. This is especially funny to me seeing as how we have another thread where a wife left after their son passed and hubby drank himself into oblivion and she was somehow a ***** for leaving bur here we have a woman going through a tough time and hubby is being told to divorce over THEEE WHOLE MONTHS of limited sex. Granted she isn't handling this very well but cmon.

I think compassion is warranted here. Your wife had an accidentall pregmancy at 16 and is now going to be a grandmother (big event) at 40 (huge event for many women) and is facing decling fertility herself. Have you had a sit down where you tell her that you understand she's struggling with this? I completely understand why you don't want to start over but you have a power struggle going on with a woman in a mid life crisis. It started with an impenetrable grandchild and will likely pass


Frankly she could've just had an oops but she hasn't. 

I take it you haven had a vasectomy? Why not? As a man you could actually have children much older then her. Lots of men find younger women and bam.....more kids. Ten pages of comments calling her selfish and hand wringing over the sex but few mentions of you getting snipped.

Why not show your wife some compassion and then demonstrate your commitment by getting snipped?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> Honestly, I feel sorry for her and understand her drive for another child. And you summarize the situation perfectly. She played by all of the rules and arrived at early middle age intact having weathered all of the storms. It would be similar to having lived in a cheap apartment for 20 years saving to build a dream home in the mountains only to be told by the spouse there is no way in h3ll they are going to move to the mountains.
> 
> In OP's shoes, if she were my wife, and *IF* she hadn't pulled the withholding sex thing, I would be inclined to have another child with her. Yes it is a lot of work and money, but the investment is well worth the time and money spent. They already did it once, the second time ought to be easier. They are acually pretty young to be empty nesters anyway.
> 
> He and his wife have been together for all of their adult lives, sad to think this could destroy that marriage. In his shoes, I would have a series of discussions about the ramifications of having another child. All the things that will impact their lives. Give her the opportunity to convince with logic that it is doable, and confirm just how committed she is to this path. And, he ought to seriously consider his own objections to confirm that they all hold water.


I would never ever father a baby in my forties... I don't care. It would just kill me.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> To clarify, we’ve had sex a few times during the past 3 months. The last time was a couple of weeks ago. Each time, she mentions a baby and/or getting pregnant sometime during the sex. The last 2 times it happened I decided I’d probably just be safer to pull out.
> 
> We went from several times a week to not even several times a month. Honestly, lately all of the baby and pregnancy talk has killed the mood for me anyway so it’s made it a bit easier to go without, but then all it takes is seeing her running around in her bra and underwear in the morning as she’s getting ready for work and I’m ready to go in about a millisecond and having to spend the rest of the day trying to tune out the thoughts as if I’m a horny teenager.
> 
> I realized that as much as she’s been saying “you can’t have any sex” I’ve been countering back with “fine! I don’t need sex with you anyway!” I’ve just recognized how stupid I’ve been. I will not force her to hav sex. I would never force her. But I believe it’s time for me to change my approach and tell her we’re married, we will be having sec like we used to and we will not be doing it to make a baby and that if she is not going to be interested in that again then we really do need to have a serious discussion about the direction of our relationship. I thought me showing her I could survive just fine without sex with her for however long she wanted to hold out was not giving up control, but in her mind she’s got all of the control now because she sees this as me going along with what she’s decided (no baby = no sex). When I first posted here I just thought she was being childish and stubborn, which she is, but now I realize that it’s actually probably a lot worse than that.


Hmm. This is a different version than originally posted.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Hmm. This is a different version than originally posted.


He did mention it before...


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> To clarify, we’ve had sex a few times during the past 3 months. The last time was a couple of weeks ago. Each time, she mentions a baby and/or getting pregnant sometime during the sex. The last 2 times it happened I decided I’d probably just be safer to pull out.
> 
> We went from several times a week to not even several times a month. Honestly, lately all of the baby and pregnancy talk has killed the mood for me anyway so it’s made it a bit easier to go without, but then all it takes is seeing her running around in her bra and underwear in the morning as she’s getting ready for work and I’m ready to go in about a millisecond and having to spend the rest of the day trying to tune out the thoughts as if I’m a horny teenager.
> 
> I realized that as much as she’s been saying “you can’t have any sex” I’ve been countering back with “fine! I don’t need sex with you anyway!” I’ve just recognized how stupid I’ve been. I will not force her to hav sex. I would never force her. But I believe it’s time for me to change my approach and tell her we’re married, we will be having sec like we used to and we will not be doing it to make a baby and that if she is not going to be interested in that again then we really do need to have a serious discussion about the direction of our relationship. I thought me showing her I could survive just fine without sex with her for however long she wanted to hold out was not giving up control, but in her mind she’s got all of the control now because she sees this as me going along with what she’s decided (no baby = no sex). When I first posted here I just thought she was being childish and stubborn, which she is, but now I realize that it’s actually probably a lot worse than that.


Ok this is completely different than what you claimed before and changes everything. I was on your side before but you really misrepresented the situation.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Well, OP is not a chump to begin with. He can stand his ground and/or stubborn when it suits him. His wife never pushed him to give her 6 or more babies, right? She wants to try for [one more] NOW when she touched 40. Just look at her history; she became a mom in her teens and never had time to explore her options and have a shot at a comfortable lifestyle with a man in her 20s. I think you made some good observations in following post:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Too much gibberish comings out of all that nonsense that you have been trying to sell here. 

Please, respect that OP doesn’t want to have any more children, regardless of his wife nonsensical demands. That's his prerogative. 

Your gibberish apologia for him to capitulate to his wife's wishes makes me think that probably your wife have a leash on you and your balls in her purse.


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## AlwaysImproving (5 mo ago)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I think some people here who have suggested I take a harder line may be into something after all.


Glad to hear. You have to be willing to follow through.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Your description of how your life would be with a baby is exactly right. You don’t want that life. This isn’t a decision that just affects her.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

@CoffeeandTV 

Maybe I didn't read all posts but the title infers she's cut off sex entirely for now going on three months.

Subsequent op responses seem to say she didn't.
So I'm withholding until some of that is cleared up I guess.
The fact you don't want a new baby should be respected, on that sole item.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

And the “hard line” isn’t because of no or limited sex. It’s because your wife doesn’t seem to respect you. If she wants to have another baby, that’s her right to feel that way but she should discuss it with you and respect your opinion. She may not agree and she may get upset, but restricting your sex lives to make a point or punish you, shows little respect for you as her husband. She can’t honestly think that she could make such a life altering decision without your agreement.

To me, that is the issue - not so much the lack of sex or whatever. That’s why it’s important to not back down if you truly don’t want another kid, because she’ll see that you can be manipulated, and if she disrespects you long enough, you’ll give in.

I hope you work it all out. I’m not an advocate of divorce, but I’m also not an advocate of staying in marriages that lack mutual respect.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Vasectomies are trivially easy. At this point, unilaterally getting one would likely be viewed as an irreversible hostile act, on par with her secretly stopping birth control and getting pregnant by you. It would snuff out any chance of resolving your differences via communication, and create a mountain of resentment that’d be very hard to move.

There is in fact a big difference between her stopping all sex and rubbing it in your face, and her not being much interested but still willing, and you choosing to not initiate because you’re pissed or fearful.

I’d agree filing for divorce is premature. I also think separation in some form may be your best option, if you are not able to convince yourself and her that working to resolve differences is going to be required for your marriage to succeed. People do divorce when there are irreconcilable differences, and her biological click is ticking.

You need to come up with a plan together how you’re going to work on coming together, and what the ground rules are. Ask her what she proposes. Ask her whether you’re wants are just as important as hers.

I like @Rus47’s suggestion for a sober analysis of pros and cons. I think a fact-based assessment of medical risks is also in order, as is discussion of various possibilities and how you’d each want to handle them.

I think you both need to be able to enumerate the other’s concerns, until you get them all expressed and covered. That includes vocalizing what you think is motivating the other’s thoughts and feelings, understanding you might find your presumptions are mistaken.

Being able to imagine and express what life could be like, for each path you could (irreversibly) walk, is very important.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Just how long are you willing to continue to invest into someone that is unwilling to invest into you?

The above question is exactly why it is NOT tit for tat.



CoffeeandTV said:


> Taking things away from her that I provide? I don’t want it to become tit for tat, so I have to think about that carefully so I don’t just stoop to the same sort of behavior she’s currently doing.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CountryMike said:


> @CoffeeandTV
> 
> *Maybe I didn't read all posts but the title infers she's cut off sex entirely for now going on three months.
> 
> ...


Kinda throws the whole thing into doubt for me. That’s a pretty big lie.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I don’t think it has to do with wanting to stay home. She actually enjoys her career and is doing something she loves.
> 
> She realizes that a baby is coming but says it’s not the same as having her own. She’s right and I can at least understand that. Oh she’ll love her grandchild but she thankfully realizes he or she will be her grandchild and that she cannot overstep the bounds. Because she was so young when she had our son her parents overstepped the bounds a lot so she knows the importance of not doing that. I don’t think she’s realizing how great this will be though. They live close and we’ll see the baby a lot. I feel bad for her that instead of just being happy about the situation, she’s letting her newfound desire for a baby overshadow her happiness about becoming a grandparent. I can’t even say “grandma” around her. I really think the “grandma” thing is a huge part of this. There’s a visible wince if we say that word. She says “I will not be called grandma.” She’s still trying to decide what she’ll be called, but it just can’t make her sound old, whatever it is.


Does she realize she is trying to steal her own daughter's thunder? While her son and daughter-in-law are glowing with a new baby and wanting to proudly show it off to the baby's new grandparents grandma is going to be chasing her own baby around. Has she consider how her son would feel about her being so selfish?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

PieceOfSky said:


> Vasectomies are trivially easy. At this point, unilaterally getting one would likely be viewed as an irreversible hostile act, on par with her secretly stopping birth control and getting pregnant by you. It would snuff out any chance of resolving your differences via communication, and create a mountain of resentment that’d be very hard to move.


Agreed.



PieceOfSky said:


> There is in fact a big difference between her stopping all sex and rubbing it in your face, *and her not being much interested but still willing, and you choosing to not initiate because you’re pissed or fearful.*


This is not what’s happening. She has blatantly said that she’s withholding sex as punishment for me not giving her a baby. I have not stopped initiating. I have initiated and she refuses. She will do things to tease me sexually and then when I initiate she feels victorious and then just gets a little smirk on her face and says “Nope!” and walks away. I’m not going to beg her for sex. I can tell when she’s doing something to intentionally tease me now and I am no longer responding to it because it’s all part of her little game. It’s not a matter of her not having much interest. My wife actually has a pretty high sex drive compared to many wives I read about. I think the times where she has allowed sex have been because she became desperate for it and she was also hoping that she could bring up a baby midway through sex and I’d be more likely to agree.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I don’t think it has to do with wanting to stay home. She actually enjoys her career and is doing something she loves.
> 
> She realizes that a baby is coming but says it’s not the same as having her own. She’s right and I can at least understand that. Oh she’ll love her grandchild but she thankfully realizes he or she will be her grandchild and that she cannot overstep the bounds. Because she was so young when she had our son her parents overstepped the bounds a lot so she knows the importance of not doing that. I don’t think she’s realizing how great this will be though. They live close and we’ll see the baby a lot. I feel bad for her that instead of just being happy about the situation, she’s letting her newfound desire for a baby overshadow her happiness about becoming a grandparent. I can’t even say “grandma” around her. I really think the “grandma” thing is a huge part of this. There’s a visible wince if we say that word. She says “I will not be called grandma.” She’s still trying to decide what she’ll be called, but it just can’t make her sound old, whatever it is.


This is also something for a professional therapist to address. Therapy can help her sort out all these confusing and troubling feelings and give her constructive mechanisms for coping and prioritizing and coming up with a game plan for going forward. 

She's not crazy and doesn't need a shrink for a psyche eval. She needs someone to help her sort out what she is going through and help her come up with constructive ways to address her wants and come up with an effective game plan going forward.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

@CoffeeandTV

Have you sat down and actually talked to your wife about this in a calm and rational way. Not just her saying I want a baby and you saying no. An actual conversation where you hash out the pros and cons.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Does she realize she is trying to steal her own daughter's thunder? While her son and daughter-in-law are glowing with a new baby and wanting to proudly show it off to the baby's new grandparents grandma is going to be chasing her own baby around. Has she consider how her son would feel about her being so selfish?



Good point....

She may not even realize it, but she is going to come across as a complete self centered jackass by the people that know both parties...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I hate to say it, but logic isn’t going to change her mind. I don’t think there is a solution here that will be to both of their satisfaction.
One of the two is going to be resentful.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> Hmm. This is a different version than originally posted.


It’s not a different version of my first post, in which I clearly mentioned that we’d had sex a few times. Maybe those people who want to insist I’m twisting the story didn’t even read the entire first post I made. That information was there all along.

Again, if people want to really get into the weeds over this situation because we have in fact had sex a total of 5 times in 3 months vs. zero times then go ahead and do that. Wouldn’t you see it as a problem if you went from 5 times a week to 5 times in 3 months and your wife declared aloud that she was not going to have sex to punish you for not having a baby? I don’t understand wanting to nitpick this part.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Kinda throws the whole thing into doubt for me. That’s a pretty big lie.


A lie?! Again, please see my first post in which I clearly mention we’ve had sex a few times.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Look, I'm a woman who has been all the ages your wife has been. I might have a touch of insight into how women think. 

Your wife was a high school kid, then BAM, she was a mom. Now she's turning 40 and is about to be a grandmother. Your wife's life clock has been on fast forward since she was a kid. This baby fever, I honestly believe, is a reaction to a mid-life crisis. She's watching her life slip away so fast and she's trying to recapture her youth. If I were her friend, I would tell her two things. First, she needs to see a therapist and talk through her problems. Not a marriage counselor, an individual therapist, preferably an older woman, someone who can understand what she's going through and make her see why she is losing her marbles and acting crazy, someone who can tell her it's ok to feel this way and she can overcome it but first she has to recognize it for what it really is: it's a midlife crisis, it's not real baby fever. Second, a baby is a PERSON. It's a new person for whom she is responsible. She's talking about bringing a new life into the world because she's freaking out about being a Memaw. Not only is that wildly irresponsible, it's unbelievably selfish and not a very motherly thing to do. A baby is a human life, not a band-aid. 

I think if you told her to go see a therapist, commit to 3-6 months of visits, or even better, wait until her grandbaby is born, and then reopen discussions about a new baby, what will happen is that person will talk her down from this crazy ledge. I feel for her, and I honestly think a neutral third party will really help her.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> I was in a somewhat similar situation at 40 but instead of having a 24 year old out of the house, I had brand new baby and a 2 1/2 year old in the house (my wife was a few weeks shy of 37 at that time) But more on that below.
> 
> Mother Nature makes women want to squeeze in one more offspring before the baby making factory shuts down. It's a biological and instinctive thing. Mother Nature is whispering in a woman's ear that she needs to have one more child while she can in case the next drought, famine or epidemic kills off the ones she already has. Pre menopause is probably playing a role here too. She may be getting some signs or symptoms of impending menopause and is making one last Hail Mary play to squeeze in one more before her reproductive system closes up shop.
> 
> ...


I admire you for deciding you didn’t want another baby and just doing what needed to be done, regardless of consequences.

I know my wife would be very devastated if I either secretly got a vasectomy right now and told her after the fact or if I told her beforehand that I had an appointment made and was going to have it done whether she liked it or not. I don’t think now, right in the middle of this standoff, would be the appropriate time. She’ll take it as a personal attack even if I don’t mean it that way.

I think she would be mad, maybe heartbroken, and resentful for whole knows how long if I got a vasectomy right now. I’m not prepared for those consequences. I don’t think she’s about to leave me over this or that she has any desire to find another man to impregnate her, but the truth is that if she told me that was the case and it was a baby or nothing I’d probably rather give her a baby than watch her leave me and find another man to do it with. I can’t stand the thought of her having a kid with another man. I would hate for a baby to be born under those circumstances but when I think about what I’d actually do in reality that’s probably what it’s come down to.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> A lie?! Again, please see my first post in which I clearly mention we’ve had sex a few times.


I reread it, and I interpreted it that you started to have sex, then she brought up the baby, you said no, she got mad and it stopped. But what actually happened is that you did in fact have sex, she was just mad. Perhaps I misunderstood. However, the title of your post is extremely stark and definitely leads one to believe that she's denied you any sex at all for 3 months. Certainly when people were posting over and over that you'd had no sex for 3 months, you didn't correct them until what, 8-9 pages in?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I reread it, and I interpreted it that you started to have sex, then she brought up the baby, you said no, she got mad and it stopped. But what actually happened is that you did in fact have sex, she was just mad. Perhaps I misunderstood. However, the title of your post is extremely stark and definitely leads one to believe that she's denied you any sex at all for 3 months. Certainly when people were posting over and over that you'd had no sex for 3 months, you didn't correct them until what, 8-9 pages in?


Maybe my first post wasn’t clear, but I meant that the few times we’ve had sex and during which she’s mentioned babies have been within the 3 months window. I also mentioned elsewhere about pulling out but I guess I wasn’t clear that again those were during the last 2 of the 5 occurrences that happened within the past 3 months.

As far as correcting people, there have been so many responses that I can’t keep up. I haven’t even finished responding to all of the posts on the first 2 pages yet.

Regardless, sex 5 times in 3 months and your wife openly declaring she is withholding sex because she’s not getting her way IS withholding sex.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Regardless, sex 5 times in 3 months and your wife openly declaring she is withholding sex because she’s not getting her way IS withholding sex.


I'm certainly not defending her behavior. She's being a crazy person. I think she needs help with this. I mean, we're advised not to get dramatic hair cuts when we're freaking out. 🤣 She's talking about a baby? That's bananas. A baby is a HUGE life change and she's not in a mental place to make that decision. She'll have the baby and then still be a 40-year-old grandmother. With a new baby. It's a bad idea.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

BlueWoman said:


> By about 1 or 2 percentage points. It's still a pretty small risk. I wouldn't call someone selfish or irresponsible for wanting a baby at 40.
> 
> I do think she's in the wrong, simply because OP doesn't want another one. I don't have any advice on this one. My brother and sister-in-law had a very similar situation. He didn't want kids. She, at 38, decided she did. They have a three-year-old now.


I don’t think my wife is in the wrong or crazy for wanting a baby at 40. She’s not old. Plenty of people have babies in their late 30s and even into their early 40s now. I remember when our son first went to school. We were the youngest parents in the class. Most parents were in their early 30s, meaning they were in the mid-20s when their kids were born. The oldest parents in the class were early 40s - just one couple as outliers. I actually know far fewer people in their mid-20s having babies now. My son, married and expecting a baby at 24, is an outlier amongst his friends group. Everyone else is still dating around or in long term relationships and not yet married or even engaged.

The issue for me is that this isn’t something she’s ever seriously mentioned before. It just came out of the blue once the grandchild news happened and the way she talks about it sounds as if she made the decision in her mind that this was definitely going to happen and that we were going to change all of the plans we’ve been talking about for years before she even mentioned it to me at all. So now she’s unhappy that she created all of these new plans by herself in her head and I don’t want to jump onboard. Now she wants to make me feel bad and torture me sexually, as if I didn’t eat my dinner and need to go to bed without any dessert.

There have been instances over the years where both of us have mentioned that we miss having a little kid at home or we see our friends kids playing with each other and say it would have been nice for our son to have a sibling, but it’s normally followed with something like “yeah, but all of the work compared to the lives we have right now, no thanks!” If it turns out she’s secretly wanted another child for years and hasn’t told me I’ll feel bad that she didn’t feel comfortable bringing it up with me for some reason but at the same time that’s on her for keeping it to herself when maybe we could have actually done something about it back then.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> . She has blatantly said that she’s withholding sex as punishment for me not giving her a baby. I have not stopped initiating. I have initiated and she refuses. She will do things to tease me sexually and then when I initiate she feels victorious and then just gets a little smirk on her face and says “Nope!” and walks away.


Why would you want to have sex with a person who would behave this way? She doesn't even like you. You are way more invested in her than she in you.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

The trouble, and maybe the opportunity, is she is not owning any of what she is doing, and has done:

1) waited 24 years to decide, up against a time crunch, that she wants another child
2) completely devalues and disrespects you, and denies you have any valid interests one way or another; this is evidenced by her anger towards you
3) In her anger, is being reckless by using sex as a weapon to punish you
4) big sense of entitlement, as evidenced by owning none of the consequences of any of the choices she has made that leads to being in this position

Telling her these things is unlikely to open her eyes. You should try though. I would also explicitly adopt a policy of refusing to participate in her sexual manipulation, taking care of your own needs, and sleeping in a different room until you are convinced she gets it, and is working a plan to address those destructive feelings and behaviors.

IME, and (beware) I have much, it’s a lot easier to consciously choose to detach and be sexless in a marriage, than it is to constantly wonder how today is going to go, and whether she is going to feed you some crumbs.

Just some ideas. YMMV.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> This is a serious crossroads in not only your marriage, but your life as a whole as well.
> 
> You are going to have to decide which course is best, or more realistically - less bad. You are going to have to take responsibility and agency for your own fertility reproductive rights.
> 
> ...


Post after post you hit what I’m thinking dead on almost every time.

She thinks I’m selfish because the idea of pregnancy, the newborn stage of changes, feedings,no sleep, into the toddler stage of baby proofing your house and watching them like a hawk because they will get into anything and everything, then the school years and your calendar filled up with all of their activities - shuttling them to friends houses, to practice, to games, the doctor appointments and the orthodontist, all the money, having your house taken over each weekend by your kids friends who are spending the night, the constant worry once they’re driving and out on their own, it doesn’t sound appealing to do over again now. Not after talking about what we were going to do as adults just the two of us for the past several years.

She cannot seem to give me a valid reason as to why she wants to do all of those things again. When I bring them up she doesn’t want to discuss that part of parenting a brand new human from birth. She just says “yeah, but it’ll be so much different now because we were so young and had no money and no clue what we were doing the first time.” I’m sure it would be very different. A lot of the stressors that were there the first time won’t exist. At the same time, if she got pregnant today I’ll be 53 by the time my second child would be 10 years old. I’m fit and active and like to think I can keep up with people a decade or two younger than me now, but let’s be realistic here.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> To clarify, we’ve had sex a few times during the past 3 months. The last time was a couple of weeks ago. Each time, she mentions a baby and/or getting pregnant sometime during the sex. The last 2 times it happened I decided I’d probably just be safer to pull out.
> 
> We went from several times a week to not even several times a month. Honestly, lately all of the baby and pregnancy talk has killed the mood for me anyway so it’s made it a bit easier to go without, but then all it takes is seeing her running around in her bra and underwear in the morning as she’s getting ready for work and I’m ready to go in about a millisecond and having to spend the rest of the day trying to tune out the thoughts as if I’m a horny teenager.
> 
> I realized that as much as she’s been saying “you can’t have any sex” I’ve been countering back with “fine! I don’t need sex with you anyway!” I’ve just recognized how stupid I’ve been. I will not force her to hav sex. I would never force her. But I believe it’s time for me to change my approach and tell her we’re married, we will be having sec like we used to and we will not be doing it to make a baby and that if she is not going to be interested in that again then we really do need to have a serious discussion about the direction of our relationship. I thought me showing her I could survive just fine without sex with her for however long she wanted to hold out was not giving up control, but in her mind she’s got all of the control now because she sees this as me going along with what she’s decided (no baby = no sex). When I first posted here I just thought she was being childish and stubborn, which she is, but now I realize that it’s actually probably a lot worse than that.


I think you're going to have to get a vasectomy to ever feel confident she's not going to get pregnant. 

By the way all this talk about she can go right out and find another guy to have a baby with, not at her age she can't. No one is going to agree to have a baby with her right away. And it won't be long before she can't. And she'll scare them away by even talking about it. Unless she has some guy who's been lurking around forever who would do whatever because of a long-standing crush or something.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Sure, we can have vacations with a little kid in the picture. But then we have school schedules to contend with, planning family friendly travel, or hauling the kid to grandma and grandpa‘a for the week while go off and have an adults-only vacation, only for her to talk about how much she misses the baby back home, frets about whether he’s doing ok or choking on some sort of inedible object at that very moment because the grandparents aren’t watching him closely enough and oh no, she better call home to check in now and maybe we could consider leaving a day or two early, next time let’s just make it a quick weekend getaway close to home in case something happens.
> 
> There’s also the fact that when a child is involved they come first. In my opinion, if I have a child at home their wants and needs come first, their activities are priority, and our whole lives revolve around this little human. Then there’s the awkward middle school years, the teen years, the paying for college, the entire physical and emotional rollercoaster of amazing times as well as huge challenges. Knowing that’s what we gave our son how could we not give another child the same thing? I couldn’t live with myself just phoning it in as a parent. It might sound selfish to some, but I can’t imagine doing that all again right now. I graduated high school as the father of an infant and that was my doing and I took responsibility for my actions. From the moment she said she was keeping the baby I didn’t complain about my life no longer being about me or about all of my lost opportunities, I just focused on what I had to do in my new role. Maybe I sound childish, but I want me time now. My wife and I never got to just be a couple on our own enjoying each other. Well, we did for a few months before she got pregnant, but it’s not the same as being an adult couple together. Now is the time we can finally do whatever we want and we have the youth, time, and money to enjoy it. Yes you can be a parent and enjoy your life at the same time. I’ve enjoyed my life, loved raising my son and managed to have a lot of fun with him along the way. We’ll always be our son’s parents and that’s a role I will always take very seriously. I would do just about anything for him, but he doesn’t need us in the same way that a baby or young kid does. So we have another baby now and I have to delay me/us time until I’m in my 60s? No, that doesn’t sound appealing to me.


Not to mention you'd still have to be working hard much longer to finance a new child in college.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I don’t think it has to do with wanting to stay home. She actually enjoys her career and is doing something she loves.
> 
> She realizes that a baby is coming but says it’s not the same as having her own. She’s right and I can at least understand that. Oh she’ll love her grandchild but she thankfully realizes he or she will be her grandchild and that she cannot overstep the bounds. Because she was so young when she had our son her parents overstepped the bounds a lot so she knows the importance of not doing that. I don’t think she’s realizing how great this will be though. They live close and we’ll see the baby a lot. I feel bad for her that instead of just being happy about the situation, she’s letting her newfound desire for a baby overshadow her happiness about becoming a grandparent. I can’t even say “grandma” around her. I really think the “grandma” thing is a huge part of this. There’s a visible wince if we say that word. She says “I will not be called grandma.” She’s still trying to decide what she’ll be called, but it just can’t make her sound old, whatever it is.


You would think that she would have prepared herself for being a young grandma pretty soon after she got pregnant so young. It sounds like she has a hard time dealing with reality. She will be called grandma because that's what she is. She needs to get over it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> There are a lot of comments here so forgive me if you’ve already addressed my questions.
> 
> First, I see lots of comments trashing the wife. I suppose it's easier to label her a selfish *** you should divorce. This is especially funny to me seeing as how we have another thread where a wife left after their son passed and hubby drank himself into oblivion and she was somehow a *** for leaving bur here we have a woman going through a tough time and hubby is being told to divorce over THEEE WHOLE MONTHS of limited sex. Granted she isn't handling this very well but cmon.
> 
> ...


She doesn't seem to be suffering at all since she does things like dress skimpy in front of him to tease him trying to trick him into having unprotected sex. She seems to be quite jolly about the whole thing and confident she can wear him down by not having sex with him. I really have trouble finding sympathy for her. I still think she is jealous and wants the attention that the daughter-in-law is getting.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She needs to get over it.


Yeah, it's as simple as this. (Not easy, but simple) Her life is what it is. That's why she needs a therapist; she's alone dealing with this, no one understands what she's going through. I feel for her, she's blowing up her life because she needs help and has no where to turn. Do I understand correctly she doesn't have a job? That makes it even harder because she has no money for a doctor.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Well, you having sex with her without protection — even in a limited manner — is a good way for her to get what she wants. Sperm do manage to get around.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> The issue for me is that this isn’t something she’s ever seriously mentioned before.


It is said often here, but you have to be ready to lose the relationship to save it sometimes. Also, know that the person in the relationship that cares the least, holds the power. Right now, she holds the power, because she is willing to damage the relationship to get what she wants, she doesn't care much about how that affects you... yet you haven't wanted to rock the boat... so she has the power. If you state, 'I don't accept a relationship that looks like this' (not being partners in life and decision making) and start pulling back... you will hold the power.

*This is a major and complete change to your joint life plan.* If she can't see how making that decision on her own (before she informed you of her plans) and then forcing it on you is wrong, she is operating on pure emotion (surprise). So you have a major battle there, as you can't ever use logic to beat emotion with a person like this.

I think you are now seeing the situation clearly with how damaging her behavior is and if you don't shut it down, I would expect her to do the same again over other things. *You are both heading toward resentment if you don't stop this.*

Perhaps agree to reconsider it after one year and see what she does? She won't want one then....

If she is not amenable to that, I think you really need to say something like 'your actions are making me wonder if your intention is for us to be partners in life, as you are trying to take away my agency over decisions that have a major impact on my life, and I am going to take some time to think about that'..... then take a trip away for the weekend, visit family, or hang out with some buddies. She needs to know you are serious... she kinda got the drift with yesterday's conversation, but still just blamed you. *You need to bring the situation to a head.*


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Openminded said:


> Well, you having sex with her without protection — even in a limited manner — is a good way for her to get what she wants. Sperm do manage to get around.


If she has actually forced your hand OP, and gotten pregnant, what will you do... what if she intentionally missed on birth control, and was only offering sex to you when she was ovulating?

Have you done the math on when she has 'allowed' you to be with her... you better make her take a test.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I admire you for deciding you didn’t want another baby and just doing what needed to be done, regardless of consequences.
> 
> I know my wife would be very devastated if I either secretly got a vasectomy right now and told her after the fact or if I told her beforehand that I had an appointment made and was going to have it done whether she liked it or not. I don’t think now, right in the middle of this standoff, would be the appropriate time. She’ll take it as a personal attack even if I don’t mean it that way.
> 
> I think she would be mad, maybe heartbroken, and resentful for whole knows how long if I got a vasectomy right now. I’m not prepared for those consequences. I don’t think she’s about to leave me over this or that she has any desire to find another man to impregnate her, but the truth is that if she told me that was the case and it was a baby or nothing I’d probably rather give her a baby than watch her leave me and find another man to do it with. I can’t stand the thought of her having a kid with another man. I would hate for a baby to be born under those circumstances but when I think about what I’d actually do in reality that’s probably what it’s come down to.


She's not going to be able to just walk out and find some guy who wants to have babies anytime soon and she will be in fertile by the time she would develop a relationship like that so stop worrying about it.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I admire you for deciding you didn’t want another baby and just doing what needed to be done, regardless of consequences.
> 
> I know my wife would be very devastated if I either secretly got a vasectomy right now and told her after the fact or if I told her beforehand that I had an appointment made and was going to have it done whether she liked it or not. I don’t think now, right in the middle of this standoff, would be the appropriate time. She’ll take it as a personal attack even if I don’t mean it that way.
> 
> I think she would be mad, maybe heartbroken, and resentful for whole knows how long if I got a vasectomy right now. I’m not prepared for those consequences. I don’t think she’s about to leave me over this or that she has any desire to find another man to impregnate her, but the truth is that if she told me that was the case and it was a baby or nothing I’d probably rather give her a baby than watch her leave me and find another man to do it with. I can’t stand the thought of her having a kid with another man. I would hate for a baby to be born under those circumstances but when I think about what I’d actually do in reality that’s probably what it’s come down to.


Well you don't want what she wants, and that said, you think she won't give you *permission* to get a vasectomy to prevent you from having a baby you said no to.....what?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

So now that you’ve received pages of TAM wisdom, OP - what do you think your next steps are going to be?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Post after post you hit what I’m thinking dead on almost every time.
> 
> She thinks I’m selfish because the idea of pregnancy, the newborn stage of changes, feedings,no sleep, into the toddler stage of baby proofing your house and watching them like a hawk because they will get into anything and everything, then the school years and your calendar filled up with all of their activities - shuttling them to friends houses, to practice, to games, the doctor appointments and the orthodontist, all the money, having your house taken over each weekend by your kids friends who are spending the night, the constant worry once they’re driving and out on their own, it doesn’t sound appealing to do over again now. Not after talking about what we were going to do as adults just the two of us for the past several years.
> 
> She cannot seem to give me a valid reason as to why she wants to do all of those things again. When I bring them up she doesn’t want to discuss that part of parenting a brand new human from birth. She just says “yeah, but it’ll be so much different now because we were so young and had no money and no clue what we were doing the first time.” I’m sure it would be very different. A lot of the stressors that were there the first time won’t exist. At the same time, if she got pregnant today I’ll be 53 by the time my second child would be 10 years old. I’m fit and active and like to think I can keep up with people a decade or two younger than me now, but let’s be realistic here.


She will absolutely fall apart during the toddler years. And her body isn't going to rebound this time either and that's just going to make her feel older. She simply has very unrealistic expectations about this. You are entitled to carry out your original life plan and enjoy this stage of your life instead of entering into another grueling long restrictive phase.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yeah, it's as simple as this. (Not easy, but simple) Her life is what it is. That's why she needs a therapist; she's alone dealing with this, no one understands what she's going through. I feel for her, she's blowing up her life because she needs help and has no where to turn. Do I understand correctly she doesn't have a job? That makes it even harder because she has no money for a doctor.


She works and likes her job.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She works and likes her job.


Oh, good for her. Then she hopefully also has insurance. She needs therapy, this whole situation is bezonkers. Maybe the OP should just leave her, that will force her to figure this out on her own. Then she can get herself back together.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

So now you’re saying if she’s determined to have a baby to the point of considering leaving that you’ll agree to have one? Get ready for 20 more years.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Oh, good for her. Then she hopefully also has insurance. She needs therapy, this whole situation is bezonkers. Maybe the OP should just leave her, that will force her to figure this out on her own. Then she can get herself back together.


He isn't going to do that and I don't blame him, but he is going to have to stop letting her disrespect and insult him. He is actually the one who holds the power because she can't get pregnant as long as he either keeps it in his pants or keeps it wrapped. Honestly she is acting like such a big baby about this. Her reaction isn't mature at all. She still seems like she's got the mentality of a 16-year-old the way she's going about this. She thinks at 40 that she has all this sexual power to the point that it's just insulting to him. Like I said if she has a baby at 40, this time is liable to be a lot different as far as her body rebounding and certainly her exhaustion level is going to be a lot higher. This is her wishing she was still young and fit and perfect. She isn't even realistic enough to accept that she's a grandmother. That is not a mature person there.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> but the truth is that if she told me that was the case and it was a baby or nothing I’d probably rather give her a baby than watch her leave me and find another man to do it with.


This I find surprising.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> He isn't going to do that and I don't blame him, but he is going to have to stop letting her disrespect and insult him. He is actually the one who holds the power because she can't get pregnant as long as he either keeps it in his pants or keeps it wrapped. *Honestly she is acting like such a big baby about this.* Her reaction isn't mature at all. She still seems like *she's got the mentality of a 16-year-old* the way she's going about this. She thinks at 40 that she has all this sexual power to the point that it's just insulting to him. Like I said what she has a baby at 40, this time is level to be a lot different as far as her body rebounding and certainly her exhaustion level is going to be a lot higher. This is her wishing she was still young and fit and perfect. She isn't even realistic enough to accept that she's a grandmother. That is not a mature person there.


Totally. He says this behavior is out of character for her. That's why I think she needs a therapist. If she's able to continue this in this same vein, it will get a lot worse before it gets better and will be a big PITA for the OP. And you are completely right, that baby will WRECK her body. Then she'll be 40, with a newborn, exhausted and her body in shambles. It's DEFCON 1 stupid, this plan of hers.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

If she had accidentally became pregnant 3 months ago, I bet OP and his wife would physically be just fine. People do have babies at this age, and older, quite often... That is not the point....

The point is, a mid-life child rearing period is a planned and mutually agreed upon thing. She literally had decades to make this decision, and simply waited too long and is now forcing the issue over a sudden and likely temporary rush of emotions.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think you're going to have to get a vasectomy to ever feel confident she's not going to get pregnant.
> 
> By the way all this talk about she can go right out and find another guy to have a baby with, not at her age she can't. No one is going to agree to have a baby with her right away. And it won't be long before she can't. And she'll scare them away by even talking about it. Unless she has some guy who's been lurking around forever who would do whatever because of a long-standing crush or something.


I think at the moment she specifically wants to have a child with me. She knows I’m a good dad and I know it’s something that she finds attractive and loves about me. We didn’t get married because we had to. Our son was 4 years old when we got married and we did it because we loved each other and wanted to get married. She told me that she didn’t love me when we accidentally got pregnant (I didn’t love her either, we’d only been dating for a few months), but the way I became a father to our son is what made her really fall in love with me. I’m not the greatest man to have ever lived but she knows that she has it pretty good with me. I don’t think she is desperate enough for a baby that she’s even thinking about leaving me to find another man to do it with; however, if she told me that no baby was a dealbreaker and she was serious about leaving me over it I am not at a place where I’d be able to easily say “ok, there’s the door.”

I’m not concerned about her leaving me right now. I am concerned about us staying together and there being some major, festering resentment.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Seriously dude? 😂
> 
> View attachment 89984


She could have a stomach bug.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She will absolutely fall apart during the toddler years. And her body isn't going to rebound this time either and that's just going to make her feel older. She simply has very unrealistic expectations about this. You are entitled to carry out your original life plan and enjoy this stage of your life instead of entering into another grueling long restrictive phase.


Why will she fall apart? Loads of women successfully have children at her age.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Totally. He says this behavior is out of character for her. That's why I think she needs a therapist. If she's able to continue this in this same vein, it will get a lot worse before it gets better and will be a big PITA for the OP. And you are completely right, that baby will WRECK her body. Then she'll be 40, with a newborn, exhausted and her body in shambles. It's DEFCON 1 stupid, this plan of hers.


Why would it wreck her body? Many women are fine having children at her age and look just fine.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m not concerned about her leaving me right now. I am concerned about us staying together and there being some major, festering resentment.


yep... obviously, you are being selfish and you don't love her enough to give her such wonderful gift in later life.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> Well, you having sex with her without protection — even in a limited manner — is a good way for her to get what she wants. Sperm do manage to get around.


Oh I know. You’re talking to somebody who had unprotected sex twice before a baby came along. One time is all it takes and the pull out method is not to be trusted either. If I’ve learned nothing else, I know that much.

Confirmed she’s on her “period” (aka the 3 days out of the month she bleeds while in the pill). I don’t think she would trick me into getting her pregnant but with her recent behavior I just felt a little safer going ahead and pulling out the past few times she’s deemed me worthy of having sex with her, even if it’s not 100% foolproof.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Why will she fall apart? Loads of women successfully have children at her age.


Yes and lots of them fall apart when they reach the toddler stage if not before. Picking up toddlers and stooping over all the time becomes hard at that age. It absolutely ruined my friend's back. She doesn't have a child at that age but she adopted one from inside her family. Now she has chronic back problems that are making every bit of life very hard for her.

And she wasn't even working and trying to do it.

I have a male friend who had children 15 years apart on purpose because they had the sperm in storage. Now he's close to 70 and got a teenage girl that's just wearing him out. And he wasn't even the one that had to deal with her the most as his wife works and was trying to do all that all these years. Now he retired a year ago so he has no excuse not to do a lot of it, and he's not real happy about it. 

The siblings barely have anything to do with each other when there's that big of a gap. My sister was only 7 years older than me and she was just mean to me and didn't want anything to do with me till we were both basically grown. She was used to being a only child and she never got over it.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Why would it wreck her body? Many women are fine having children at her age and look just fine.


If she is naturally skinny then there will be minimal changes people can see when she is fully dressed, but nothing snaps back the way it did at 16 and she will NOT look the same naked. Besides, your definition of "looks fine" is not the same as every other woman.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> This is not what’s happening. She has blatantly said that she’s withholding sex as punishment for me not giving her a baby. I have not stopped initiating. I have initiated and she refuses. She will do things to tease me sexually and then when I initiate she feels victorious and then just gets a little smirk on her face and says “Nope!” and walks away. I’m not going to beg her for sex. I can tell when she’s doing something to intentionally tease me now and I am no longer responding to it because it’s all part of her little game. It’s not a matter of her not having much interest. My wife actually has a pretty high sex drive compared to many wives I read about. I think the times where she has allowed sex have been because she became desperate for it and she was also hoping that she could bring up a baby midway through sex and I’d be more likely to agree.


You are doing the same thing when you appear to be going along with baby sex and then pull out. 

Both of you are being Lucy with the football pulling it out from under Charlie Brown at the last moment. 

This is NOT healthy and is leading you both into deeper resentment. 

You have both dug yourself in deeper into a rut that you will likely need marital counseling to get yourselves out of. 

This is a very serious, life-impacting situation. She needs professional individual therapy to help sort out all of her conflicting and confusing feelings and help formulate a game plan for going forward. 

And you both need professional marital counseling to work out your relationship issues. You need professional assistance by trained professionals and not untrained strangers on the internet with problems of their own.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> He did mention it before...


No, he had said that in the opening posts... he just didn't say it clearly.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Why would it wreck her body? Many women are fine having children at her age and look just fine.


There is no way to predict that and even if it were true, who knows what type of physical stamina and physical capability she will have as she gets into her 40s and enters into 50's.....Only one thing is certain...it wont be as good or as competent as she would be at 25 or 30...To what degree worse it will be is the question....and it could be a LOT worse..add menopause on top of that.....


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If she is naturally skinny then there will be minimal changes people can see when she is fully dressed, but nothing snaps back the way it did at 16 and she will NOT look the same naked. Besides, your definition of "looks fine" is not the same as every other woman.


Totally agree. Had mine at 28 and 32 and there was even a difference with that age difference. 

And baby #2 often causes more permanent changes. Getting your body back after one might be possible, nothing is quite the same after a second one.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Had mine at 28 and 32 and there was even a difference with that age difference.


I was 37 when I had my one. Unless my body is some kind of one of a kind scientific anomaly, your body at 37 does not snap back a la Scarlett Johannsen after a pregnancy.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

The snirk and "nope" would make me want to never have sex with that person again. 

She needs to understand how much she is damaging your relationship. 

That's a heinous character flaw she has.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> By the way all this talk about she can go right out and find another guy to have a baby with, not at her age she can't. No one is going to agree to have a baby with her right away. And it won't be long before she can't. And she'll scare them away by even talking about it. Unless she has some guy who's been lurking around forever who would do whatever because of a long-standing crush or something.


I am going to disagree on this. 

If she is fit and attractive and is gainfully employed, there will be men tripping over themselves to get with her and have a child with her. 

Now they aren't going to be jocks, studs and handsome hunks or playboys or lady's men. 

They are going to be simps and betas and 40 year old virgins and any kind of engineer. 

But keep in mind that simps and betas and Melvins make up the majority of the male population, you just don't see them because they are normally invisible to the average woman. 

The thing here is if she is up against the wall, she only needs sperm and some financial support and some assistance with household and child rearing chores .......... all things that simps and betas and 40 year old virgins were put here for. 

If she so chose and were willing to walk out the door and put up an eharmony profile, she could realistically be taking the little for a stroller ride around the block at this time in 2024.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

CoffeeandTV said:


> We’ve had sex 5 times in the past 3 months.


This new information changes much of the help you've received here.

In your first post, you said, "She’s intentionally withholding sex now and what I thought would be a short, stubborn hold out has turned into almost 3 months of no sex." I'm pretty good with the English language. I can't imagine anyone reading that sentence and interpreting it as, "She’s intentionally withholding sex now and what I thought would be a short, stubborn hold out has turned into almost 3 months of no sex *except for a few times here and there*."


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I was 37 when I had my one. Unless my body is some kind of one of a kind scientific anomaly, your body at 37 does not snap back a la Scarlett Johannsen after a pregnancy.


Mine didnt snap back in my 20's.It took time. However those I know who had children at that sort of age(40) looked pretty must the same a few months later as they had pre pregnancy. .


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

He’s not worried about what she looks like after. He’s worried about his life being titraooy disrupted for YEARS.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Mine didnt snap back in my 20's.It took time. However those I know who had children at that sort of age(40) looked pretty must the same a few months later as they had pre pregnancy. .


Well those I know, including myself, did not. I can't explain how your friends are able to defy medical science.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Well those I know, including myself, did not. I can't explain how your friends are able to defy medical science.


It varies greatly from person to person, but they did indeed look more or less the same a few months later and one is a close family member.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I don’t think she’s about to leave me over this or that she has any desire to find another man to impregnate her, but the truth is that if she told me that was the case and it was a baby or nothing I’d probably rather give her a baby than watch her leave me and find another man to do it with. I can’t stand the thought of her having a kid with another man. I would hate for a baby to be born under those circumstances but when I think about what I’d actually do in reality that’s probably what it’s come down to.


So you have established in your own mind the go/no go conditions. And if she is hellbent on a baby, a baby she shall have by you.

So now all that remains is to have her decide


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Oh I know. You’re talking to somebody who had unprotected sex twice before a baby came along. One time is all it takes and the pull out method is not to be trusted either. If I’ve learned nothing else, I know that much.
> 
> Confirmed she’s on her “period” (aka the 3 days out of the month she bleeds while in the pill). I don’t think she would trick me into getting her pregnant but with her recent behavior I just felt a little safer going ahead and pulling out the past few times she’s deemed me worthy of having sex with her, even if it’s not 100% foolproof.


She may or may not decide to skip a few pills — just to see what happens. At her age she might not even be fertile any longer so that’s unknown. But I think she wants a baby far more than you don’t want one so if she is still fertile she’ll probably be the winner in this battle.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

So OP I"ve slogged through the 14 pages. I have a few thoughts. Take them for what you will. Being a woman I hope to see both sides.

I am worried for your marriage. 
See you and your wife have what's called a difference of opinion on a matter of great import.
You have unilaterally decided your voice matters more. Her own words are that you won't even discuss it. You absolutely get to decide what's right for you but most marriages work as a team and when matters of great importance come up in which there is a difference of opinion well it's usually discussed and compromises made if they can be. While you are right that it's hard to compromise on a child, you aren't even willing to hear her which means you've decided that a) you aren't in a partnership your in a dictatorship or b) you put your personal needs above the partnership. 

You have also subtly given her an ultimatum and suggestion. So based on what you've said here she views you as her LIFE LONG partner. she said you are the only one who can give me a baby. She REAFFIRMED her vision of you two as partners. You did two things. You introduced the idea that if she really wants a baby she should look elsewhere which implies that you are WILLING to let her go. It doesn't matter that on here you say you aren't she HEARD the word divorce in her head. Many on this very board will tell you don't threaten or bring up divorce unless you are willing to.... you know why because sometimes that decision is then taken out of your hands. You have literally told her hey look around remember that guy at work that orbits that you ignore. Evaluate him for baby daddy. She doesn't necessarily need a new husband especially if she has a decent job of her own. BTW we have had several guys who threatened or alluded to divorce to have the woman say ok or not say anything but serve him with papers. I'm sure your wife never thought of that until HMMMMM yesterday? Good Job. She also has it in her mind that you would like her to find another baby daddy versus having a conversation.

There are two things in marriage that only marriage can provide or should. A baby's parents and sex. So you are not willing to provide her need (and I"m not even saying you should ) but the whole board is upset because she's only having sex with you occasionally. I normally have sex with my husband 5-10 x / week but I could easily go 3 months if my husband treated me like a subordinate and alluded to divorce. I'm sure she is honestly upset right now. You are also honestly upset. Neither of you is talking though it seems she's willing to talk but you aren't. So she could start having sex with you at anytime but in 1 year, 2 years or so she'll realize you can never give her a baby because she's too old. This is going to be a possible spot of resentment. Resentment kills relationship. Which is a shame cause it seems like up until the last couple months you two have had a good time of it. 

Let it be noted that you LITERALLY don't want to get a vasectomy's because there is a change you might want to give someone else a baby. REALLY? Isn't it convenient that you want to keep your options open but her's can't stay open. Her time is coming to an end. You are sure enough you want to end her hope but not yours. That doesn't seem just a little bit hypocritical.

You now want to sit down and talk about sex... I mean your needs should get met no matter what right? You won't talk to her about hers but yours listen to the board and tell her it's sex or divorce (bring it up a second time... you know for dramatic effect it will really destabilize how she thinks about her long term marriage and husband)

Any whoo.
You do have an equal voice. I am not saying you have to have a baby. I'm saying act like a partner and discuss, listen. discuss and listen again. be willing to discuss and listen as often as it takes for you two to come back together. Stabilize your marriage. Make her feel safe and loved. 

Children deserve two parents who both want them. 
I wish you luck. I hope you haven't had too much damage on either side to come back from. Resentment is a very sneaky thing and lasts and lasts and multiplies. Walking down the street seeing a small happy child. Or seeing an obviously handsy couple....


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Her exact words tonight: “I want a baby. You won’t even consider it. You’re the only person who can give that to me. I’m mad and I’m hurt and I’m going to keep being mad and hurt for a while.”
> 
> I told her I’m not the only person who can give that to her and she shot up and said “What do you mean?!” I asked her how badly she wanted it and how badly she wanted to stay married to me. Somehow that turned me into the bad guy too “I can’t believe you’d even say that?” So on and so forth.
> 
> ...


Bro, check the red highlight in your statement. You should NOT address your wife in this manner. I can see in her statements (blue highlights) that she loves you and is faithful to you but you are telling her to find another man to meet her needs? Is this what you want her to do?

Do not fill her head with funny ideas. She is a working lady and goes to gym as well. Men are very likely notice a woman [in distress] and some will try to strike conversations with her in your absence. If any man is able to build rapport with her then you will have much more to worry about than her lack of intimacy with you in the present.

Statements like these can also make her resent you and this is not a minor issue either. You do not want to end up with a wife who might have sex with you but resents you deep down. She will hit you with the infamous ILYBINILWY bomb one day and you will be wondering what went wrong.

I have repeatedly told you to not take your wife and marriage for granted. I am a researcher and I have some perspective for you:

CAUSE = EFFECT

Memorize this equation and REVISIT your conversations with your wife. Strike conversations with your wife but be patient with her and allow her to vent because she is triggered and having a midlife crisis due to her "conflict situation" with you. She have clearly told you that she is mad and hurt and this phase will last for a while. Your tone and words will carry much weight when you will address your wife in a "conflict situation."



CoffeeandTV said:


> Sure, we can have vacations with a little kid in the picture. But then we have school schedules to contend with, planning family friendly travel, or hauling the kid to grandma and grandpa‘a for the week while go off and have an adults-only vacation, only for her to talk about how much she misses the baby back home, frets about whether he’s doing ok or choking on some sort of inedible object at that very moment because the grandparents aren’t watching him closely enough and oh no, she better call home to check in now and maybe we could consider leaving a day or two early, next time let’s just make it a quick weekend getaway close to home in case something happens.
> 
> There’s also the fact that when a child is involved they come first. In my opinion, if I have a child at home their wants and needs come first, their activities are priority, and our whole lives revolve around this little human. Then there’s the awkward middle school years, the teen years, the paying for college, the entire physical and emotional rollercoaster of amazing times as well as huge challenges. Knowing that’s what we gave our son how could we not give another child the same thing? I couldn’t live with myself just phoning it in as a parent. It might sound selfish to some, but I can’t imagine doing that all again right now. I graduated high school as the father of an infant and that was my doing and I took responsibility for my actions. From the moment she said she was keeping the baby I didn’t complain about my life no longer being about me or about all of my lost opportunities, I just focused on what I had to do in my new role. Maybe I sound childish, but I want me time now. My wife and I never got to just be a couple on our own enjoying each other. Well, we did for a few months before she got pregnant, but it’s not the same as being an adult couple together. Now is the time we can finally do whatever we want and we have the youth, time, and money to enjoy it. Yes you can be a parent and enjoy your life at the same time. I’ve enjoyed my life, loved raising my son and managed to have a lot of fun with him along the way. We’ll always be our son’s parents and that’s a role I will always take very seriously. I would do just about anything for him, but he doesn’t need us in the same way that a baby or young kid does. So we have another baby now and I have to delay me/us time until I’m in my 60s? No, that doesn’t sound appealing to me.


I completely get you and see your point.

_"I can see from where OP is coming from. He have had a kid with his now wife in his teens, and have missed the opportunity to have adventures in his younger years. But this is true for his wife as well. Both have made sacrifices for each other in hindsight.

I am NOT telling OP to overlook HIS needs *but* to find a way to have fulfilling experiences with his wife by discussing his problems with her instead of expecting intimacy from her *when* she is pissed at him for his refusal to have another baby with her. Her biological clock is ticking and she is caught between the rock and a hard place in view of her situation." _

Refer back to post # 162 in page 9 of this thread.

Your problem is that you are are NOT SINGLE and your responsibilities towards your wife have NOT diminished. She wants to have [another] baby with you and this is her legitimate right, request, and need from you [as your wife]. You have REFUSED her on the other hand.

The two of you are at an impasse, therefore.
Your wife have chosen to ROCK THE BOAT by withholding intimacy from you in response to this impasse.
Your complaints about her lack of intimacy with you are BASELESS in view of your ongoing "conflict situation" with her because you have a hand in CREATING this "problem situation" with her.

CAUSE = EFFECT

Now you get it?

This is why I have had reservations about your complaint(s) in this thread. Your "problem situation" is that you are at an impasse with your wife over the matter of having another baby with her. This explains why your wife have chosen to withhold intimacy from you. Her coping mechanism with your ongoing "conflict situation" with her is understandable. She is NOT a sexdoll or something. She is a woman and have feelings. She have reasons to be intimate with you (or not). She is NOT a bad wife and woman. She is simply hurt and withdrawn due to your ongoing "conflict situation" with her.

Clear enough?

So HOW will you move forward from this situation? Do you want to file for divorce? Do you believe that you can weather this storm and convince your wife to drop her plea of having another baby with you? Are you willing to reconsider your own position and move forward with your wife instead?

You need to figure out what you can do to address your "problem situation."

*IF* you want to stick by your wife and work on your marriage then it is IMPORTANT for you to strike conversations with your wife about HOW to BREAK the impasse between the two of you. You do NOT have to cave in to your wife's plea for having another baby with you [due to her lack of intimacy with you] on immediate basis _*but*_ your INTENT should be to HELP your wife reach an INFORMED DECISION in regards to having another baby with you.

*IF* you are NOT equipped to guide your wife through your "conflict situation" with her then involve a 3rd party in this matter. This 3rd party can be your parents (or your wife's parents, or both), or a licensed therapist.

*Emphasis mine.* Try your best to work on your marriage and see how it goes. You have 20 years of marital history with this woman and this is the least you can do for her.



CoffeeandTV said:


> I admire you for deciding you didn’t want another baby and just doing what needed to be done, regardless of consequences.
> 
> I know my wife would be very devastated if I either secretly got a vasectomy right now and told her after the fact or if I told her beforehand that I had an appointment made and was going to have it done whether she liked it or not. I don’t think now, right in the middle of this standoff, would be the appropriate time. She’ll take it as a personal attack even if I don’t mean it that way.
> 
> I think she would be mad, maybe heartbroken, and resentful for whole knows how long if I got a vasectomy right now. I’m not prepared for those consequences. I don’t think she’s about to leave me over this or that she has any desire to find another man to impregnate her, but the truth is that if she told me that was the case and it was a baby or nothing I’d probably rather give her a baby than watch her leave me and find another man to do it with. I can’t stand the thought of her having a kid with another man. I would hate for a baby to be born under those circumstances but when I think about what I’d actually do in reality that’s probably what it’s come down to.


You should NOT consider having vasectomy in secrecy. This is akin to cheating on your wife.

Refer to the purple highlight in this statement. These are your feelings about your wife?

-----

You asked in your first post that "How would YOU handle this?"

Here is my answer.

My situation is [somewhat similar] to yours. I did NOT had much adventure in my younger years. I did not had many friends in my younger years. I was lacking in my dating game as well. I was focused on improving my academic credentials and building my life instead [still am]. I dated women when I was in a much better place in personal capacity to contemplate marriage. I met my (now) wife several years ago. WE were living in a rental property when she told me that she wants to try for a baby with me. I understood her concerns and needs and WE are blessed with a beautiful daughter. I did NOT wait to have my own residential property and vice versa to have a child because I understood that things come in time.

In the present, WE have a daughter, our own residential property, and other amenities. Do I want to go on vacations and tour other countries with my wife as well? Yes, I do. WE will pull this off in our 40s. I am pretty sure.

I value my wife and my marriage by extension. I recognize and respect my wife's role in building my life with her. She is well-educated, attractive, and faithful to me. She have given me a beautiful daughter as well. It is possible for her to make a plea to have another child with me. I will honor her needs and wishes much like before. I understand my responsibilities towards her and what I signed up for in a marriage. This isn't just about ME but the two of us. I cherish my treasures (everything that is GOOD in my life).

This might be my last response to you in this thread because I do not want to pester you. You are a learned man yourself and should know better. Best of luck.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

At the end of the day, OP - it’s your life. And I think that getting some objective opinions from people who don’t know you or your wife at all, has at least helped you “talk it out” and see where you stand. If you end up agreeing with her on having another baby, I’d just hope you’re all in and not doing so out of fear of your wife being unhappy, or her leaving you or whatever. I think this discussion has hopefully opened your eyes to that your wife isn’t as respectful of you as she should be. That is separate and away from this topic and you shouldn’t ignore it. 

It might be interesting to see if you do say yes, how all in she really is. I tend to believe that this urge is coming from knowing she’s going to be a grandmother and she doesn’t like that idea. Or if you and your wife are on the same page and decide to go ahead with having a baby, who knows? Maybe things will work out better than you’ve imagined.

But just make sure, YOU are all in. Because a child deserves that from you both.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> It varies greatly from person to person, but they did indeed look more or less the same a few months later and one is a close family member.


Did you see them naked????!??

Did you take a look at pelvic floor strength and functionality, integrity of stomach muscles, vaginal condition and tightness, skin examination (stretch marks?), breast and nipple denseness and sagging evaluation before and after? If so that's REALLY invasive. 

I LOOKED the same, for sure. But I wasn't close to the same in some very real and permanent ways 🤣🤣🤣

Even just the circumference of my rib cage. I was a very very petite person and things expanded carrying 2 kids and it ain't the SAME even two decades later.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Two people have to decide together to have a child. Either can say no, and they each have that choice. If you don't have consensus, then it doesn't happen. This not like other decisions.

My wife and I decided to have 3 kids, before we were married. We had two and she unilaterally stated that she is not having any more kids, not due to a physical issues, but just no longer felt she can handle having three kids and didn't want three youngish kids at the same time. Not much I can do about that, both people would need to agree to have a child, especially years after the other children.

I was more in the situation of OPs wife with wanting another. I discussed my feelings with my wife, and told her that I hoped she would change her mind... but there was no punishment for her for not doing that. It takes two yes votes to proceed with that.

Telling OP he should just proceed with this life altering choice seems ridiculous, just as ridiculous as his wife's behavior is about demanding it, as there is no compromise on having a child, it is either all or nothing.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Bro, check the red highlight in your statement. You should NOT address your wife in this manner. I can see in her statements (blue highlights) that she loves you and is faithful to you but you are telling her to find another man to meet her needs? Is this what you want her to do?
> 
> Do not fill her head with funny ideas. She is a working lady and goes to gym as well. Men are very likely notice to a woman [in distress] and some will try to strike conversations with her in your absence. If any man is able to build rapport with her then you will have much more to worry about then lack of intimacy in the present.
> 
> ...


Some might say this is a lot of blarney. Or some may apply.

OP, you are between a rock and a hard place but your opinion is equal to hers. Just stay firm.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> So OP I"ve slogged through the 14 pages. I have a few thoughts. Take them for what you will. Being a woman I hope to see both sides.
> 
> I am worried for your marriage.
> See you and your wife have what's called a difference of opinion on a matter of great import.
> ...


I don’t have time to respond to this thoroughly, so I’ll come back and do that later. What really stood out though and what I want to immediately clarify is that you think I don’t want to get a vasectomy so that I can keep my options open regarding having a baby with another woman, somebody who is not my current wife. I never said that and I definitely don’t feel that way. Somebody else implied that if this marriage ends and I find myself with somebody new I may have a change of tune about having another baby, but that did not come from me. What I did say is that there is a very small part of me, less than 1%, that isn’t quite ready to permanently close the door on being able to have another child ever. I meant with my wife. I’m not even considering a scenario where I’m with somebody new and want to give them a baby once I’m 45!

I feel certain that I don’t want another child at this time but to make a permanent decision and run out and get a vasectomy right now due to the current situation, out of anger, would probably not be the best thing to do.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I don’t have time to respond to this thoroughly, so I’ll come back and do that later. What really stood out though and what I want to immediately clarify is that you think I don’t want to get a vasectomy so that I can keep my options open regarding having a baby with another woman, somebody who is not my current wife. I never said that and I definitely don’t feel that way. Somebody else implied that if this marriage ends and I find myself with somebody new I may have a change of tune about having another baby, but that did not come from me. What I did say is that there is a very small part of me, less than 1%, that isn’t quite ready to permanently close the door on being able to have another child ever. I meant with my wife. I’m not even considering a scenario where I’m with somebody new and want to give them a baby once I’m 45!
> 
> I feel certain that I don’t want another child at this time but to make a permanent decision and run out and get a vasectomy right now due to the current situation, out of anger, would probably not be the best thing to do.


And yet by running out the clock on her you ARE making the permanent decision.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> . I don’t think she’s about to leave me over this or that she has any desire to find another man to impregnate her, but the truth is that if she told me that was the case and it was a baby or nothing I’d probably rather give her a baby than watch her leave me and find another man to do it with. I can’t stand the thought of her having a kid with another man. I would hate for a baby to be born under those circumstances but when I think about what I’d actually do in reality that’s probably what it’s come down to.


If this is the case then you have few options. 

Option #1 is continue to stand your ground and say no and continue to live with growing resentment and scorn and bitterness until you become just another middle age couple in a dead marriage and each of you living separate lives under the same roof (but at least you won't have any babies or little kids running around)

Option #2 is to try to do as much backpedaling and damage control as you can once she does start to pack bags and see if you can resuscitate your relationship as she's getting ready to move on with the next guy. 

Option #3 start picking out colors for the nursery and heading up to Babies R Us in the mini van to get the new updated safety cribs and humidifiers and the bulk pack of diapers. You'll need to start wearing boxers too so the boys can start to cool to get the sperm count up. 

Unlike some of the other posters here and even some comments you have made yourself, I DO believe that she is capable of walking out the door and into another marriage pretty seemlessly and I believe if she is dead serious on this that she will be soon willing to do so. Some here will disagree with me, but I think the threat is real. Thousands of 40 year old women are leaving their husbands for new men every day just because they are bored and lonely and some guy that looks good in yoga pants at yoga class winked at them. She has a bona fide reason being driven by hundreds of thousands of years of human evolution. 

You talked about hoping to be having nonreproductive sex with her by Christmas. She could literally be having reproductive sex with some guy in their new house together while waiting for the divorce paperwork to work through the court by Christmas. I have personally seen a couple different 40 year women step into new relationships in the course of a couple weeks with my own eyes in real life. 

Don't feel smug that it can't or won't happen to you. 

In my situation when I was 40 and was dead set against having any more kids, we had an infant and a 2 1/2 year old so I was fairly certain my wife would not leave me with two very young kids and even though she was in good shape and very good looking, I was also fairly certain that not many attractive men would want to take on a 2 year old and a baby just to get some poon. 

Your situation is different. You don't have young kids. She could move out this evening and some guy would be glad to take her home before the 10 o'clock news comes on. 

You both have serious, life-impacting decisions to make.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> And yet by running out the clock on her you ARE making the permanent decision.


What would you have @CoffeeandTV do?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She will absolutely fall apart during the toddler years. And her body isn't going to rebound this time either and that's just going to make her feel older. She simply has very unrealistic expectations about this. You are entitled to carry out your original life plan and enjoy this stage of your life instead of entering into another grueling long restrictive phase.


Just to make clear, I would rather stick sharp objects in my eyes than have more kids when I was 40 and I had a vasectomy against my wife's true wishes and I would have rather she divorced me and taken up with another man than having another child at that stage of my life. 

However, my wife had our youngest 3 weeks shy of her 37th bday. 

My mom had me at 38 while working full time as a jr high teacher. (and that was 58 years ago in a tiny farm community in the middle of nowhere without the resources of today)

Both were great mothers and both survived. Was it hard and exhausting at times?? Yeah duh. All parenting is hard and exhausting at times. But we some how always find a way to make it through to the next day.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CountryMike said:


> What would you have @CoffeeandTV do?


I spelled out in length what I would have him do.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> If this is the case then you have few options.
> 
> Option #1 is continue to stand your ground and say no and continue to live with growing resentment and scorn and bitterness until you become just another middle age couple in a dead marriage and each of you living separate lives under the same roof (but at least you won't have any babies or little kids running around)
> 
> ...


I disagree.

I disagree that there would be a quality man chomping at the bit to commit to and impregnate a 41+ (divorce and then dating take time) year old woman. 

Isn't it here on this forum that there have been tons and tons of discussions about how hard it is for older women to find a good man who wants a relationship?

Imagine trying to find a good man who wants a relationship AND wants a child with a 41, 42 year old woman??


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> I spelled out in length what I would have him do.


The cliff notes. The book version kind of was all over. I guess, in a sentence or two?


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Well, by withholding sex, at least you are 100% sure she's not pregnant! 

I understand your wife.

I'm 42 and already have 2 children, but I feel my body screaming it wants another baby. Rationally, I don't want another baby, but my hormones make me want another child. It doesn't help I'm in and out of labor and delivery at the hospital and I see newborn babies constantly. I actually feel my breasts tingling when I hear babies cry. It's actually something amazing and unbelievable! How our bodies react to newborn babies at my age. Hormones are a b*tch sometimes!

My husband had a vasectomy 11 years ago, but even him sometimes looks at me and says, "don't you want another one?" So, I know it happens to men too.

I didn't feel I wanted another baby when my kids were small and things were hectic. We forget how hard it is to have a newborn while having a career, no personal time, and postpartum issues, etc. I'm guessing your wife is only thinking about the good and has forgotten about the bad and the ugly about motherhood. 

In my case, I love babies, but I remind myself how miserable I was when they were little. I needed some therapy during my second pregnancy, and my therapist reminded me constantly to not underestimate my hormones. She was right. I had my second baby and I was back to normal. 

Are you willing to let her go to so she can have a baby and be happy? Is this what she really wants?because she's turning her marriage upside down with this impulsive idea. You both have to decide what to do. Either she wants to be with you (without resentments) and forget about having another baby or you let her go to have a baby.

How long are you going to stay in this situation?

If I were you, I'd give her an ultimatum. I'd sit her down and explain to her you love her very much and because you love her you are willing to let her go to find happiness. If she says, if you loved me you'd say yes to the baby, you say I love you but I also love myself and I can't lie to you or myself and agree to another child without wanting it. That would be horrible for the baby. If she decides to stay married, she needs to find a counselor who can help her move on with her life and forget about the idea of having a baby, enjoy the marriage and this new chapter as grandparents without resentments! 

Give her 30 days to make up her mind, find a counselor, and then decide if you want to stay or separate. It doesn't mean you are going to divorce but it might shake her enough to snap and realize she's about to lose her husband and marriage. 

Since she has changed the dynamics of your marriage, have you changed the way you behave towards her? Maybe she's behaving the way she is because she's not afraid of losing you. Maybe she needs to miss you a little bit. Give her more space and keep yourself busy away from her and see what happens. She's not behaving like a loving wife, why would you keep behaving like a loving husband? I don't like playing games, but if someone is trying to purposely hurt me, the love goes out the window!


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CountryMike said:


> The cliff notes. The book version kind of was all over. I guess, in a sentence or two?


Act like he's in a partnership, make decisions as a partner. Show the value of the partnership by discussing and listening to each others side. Because of the nature of the topic and not much compromise being available. It may take multiple discussions over several months. He obviously feels strongly and so does she. It's amazing how much a little listening can do for a relationship. Note listening doesn't mean doing what the other wants. But you may at least find things you both can agree on (small things not the ultimate decision). 

I'd also encourage during this time when resentment is easy to build on both sides to avoid behaviors that breed resentment like blowing apart a 20 year perception of being a team/ permanent couple with idle threats of divorce especially since he doesn't want one.

Patience.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

What would it look like if you both listened and tried to understand what the other person wants, and what the other person thinks is not being fully considered? 

I'd tell her you both need to do a "reset", and figure out how to approach this problem so no matter what it does not lead to a lifetime of resentment.

You should be turning towards each other, not away.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

They already had a life plan. She's the one impulsively blowing it up because her DIL got pregnant -- not a good reason!


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> They already had a life plan. She's the one impulsively blowing it up because her DIL got pregnant -- not a good reason!


That's probably the best point. If the W wouldn't want a baby if the DIL hadn't gotten preggers that's a whole new view. And a wrong reason to have a baby.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> I disagree.
> 
> I disagree that there would be a quality man chomping at the bit to commit to and impregnate a 41+ (divorce and then dating take time) year old woman.
> 
> ...


It’s all in what you consider a “good man.”

she’s had a “good man” for the last 24 years.

now she needs sperm and a little bit of financial assistance (she has her own professional credentials and career) and someone to run up to get formula and diapers at night.

she’s not looking for a hunk or an alpha or a corporate raider. She needs a simp and a beta to give her sperm and help around the house.

Most men are simps and betas.

She’s up against the wall and needs a beta to warm breast milk out of the refrigerator and run up to the store for diarrhea medicine. there are 27,429,781 men in the country that fit that bill.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Rus47 said:


> Vasectomies could be reversed thirty years ago when I got mine. So am sure they can be now.


They can, but reversal isn't the same as regaining fertility. Also, it's expensive (think 5 figures) and invasive.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Perhaps but don’t you have to get an operation on a sensitive spot? H did not appear to particularly enjoy his when he had it done, even though he got some pretty kick-ass meds and binge-watched GOT.


And, like anything, complications do happen.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I tell you what, it would be big news to my husband that parenting his child makes him a "beta simp." 🙄 Keyboard warriors are so silly. 

Anyway, I hope the OP at least pauses to consider his wife's feelings and really reads (some) of the posts here. As the story has evolved, she's upset but not completely closed off and is trying to talk about it. If he would do what @Anastasia6 suggests and listen, and maybe suggest his wife go talk to someone about how she's feeling so she can realize that having a baby right now is probably not what she even really wants. He's probably too close to it to talk to her, a third party with no skin in the game can talk to her rationally about her life. (She won't be able to turn it around on a therapist and say "You're just being selfish!") If all she wants is to be the center of attention and steal her DIL's thunder, then I will lose what little sympathy I have for her.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Oh he rested. Spent the weekend watching TV and napping while I waited on him. If only he would use his powers for good. 🙄 I am on the fence if the OPs wife is worth the pain.


The surgery itself is no big deal. The pain starts a couple of days later if problems are coming up.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

The baby isn't even out yet, so whatever she's missing isn't the actual baby but the attention DIL is getting from being pregnant.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I tell you what, it would be big news to my husband that parenting his child makes him a "beta simp."


And Lord help him if he was _gasp_ an engineer. Because ALL engineers are betas and simps. I wonder if all plumbers and carpenters are alphas. BTW is there such a creature as a gamma or an omega?

But lets not generalize.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> And Lord help him if he was _gasp_ an engineer. Because ALL engineers are betas and simps. But lets not generalize.


Can you imagine if I posted something like that? The report button would _literally_ catch on fire. 😂 I mean, if he'd said geologists that would be one thing... 🤪


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Why would she say that she isnt? She hasn’t had sex for three months with her husband. Wouldn’t think that would enter her head if it weren’t possible.
> 
> Unless she got pregnant before the dry spell started. Or from some other source.
> 
> My wife typically get sick until 2-3 months in. But usually early in day, not late in day


Remember, he said in subsequent posts they have had sex a few times in that three months.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Can you imagine if I posted something like that? The report button would _literally_ catch on fire. 😂 I mean, if he'd said geologists that would be one thing... 🤪


You need to hang around for another few years and you can write whatever you like because it will already have been read thousands of times and would prompt no reaction at all. It just be "that just Texas bein Texas".


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Rus47 said:


> And Lord help him if he was _gasp_ an engineer. Because ALL engineers are betas and simps. But lets not generalize.


I was a registered engineer before I quit. Does that make me a simp and I'm sure I seem like a Beta LOL. 

Yes I view men very differently I guess because one who takes care of his family in my eyes is Alpha (I hate that term). and the ones who **** off and think they are too cool for diapers are useless. Below baby **** in my eyes. Luckily there's all types of guys and girls and you only need to find the one that matches you. I found mine in spades. It sounded like OP had it pretty good but boy. If my husband did any of the things I 'think I"m reading' well it would forever change my marriage if there was one left.

The biggest suggesting other men could give her a baby. I see that as the biggest mistake. Once something like that is out there. You can't really unring that bell. You can say you didn't mean it. You can date her or listen. But if you had a solid marriage before that divorce or other men NEVER crossed her mind well now she questions that. And women's brains don't shut off or forget hurtful things easily. She'll be thinking of it tonight at 11:30 while he's sleeping.

I'm old and out of shape and I could STILL go out and get banged any day of the week I wanted. I have also had several men show infatuation over the years that I've nipped in the bud. So imagine someone like his wife !! I love this myth that a 40 year old woman is out of luck.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> You need to hang around for another few years and you can write whatever you like because it will already have been read thousands of times and would prompt no reaction at all. It just be "that just Texas bein Texas".


I dunno, but your optimism is cheering. 😋

I hope this works out for the OP. He sounds frustrated but like a decent dude who loves his wife. Even though she's being loony mctoony right now.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Does that make me a simp and I'm sure I seem like a Beta LOL.


All this greek alphabet stuff is kinda wierd to me. I guess the simp term is ghetto slang. Had never heard any of this stuff until came to TAM. And really not sure what any of it has to do with marriage.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’ve recently been reading about dead bedrooms on a few sites and saw a mention of Talk About Marriage on a Reddit post and thought I’d come check this place out in case somebody here might be able to help.
> 
> I suppose you could say I’m experiencing what is the start of a dead bedroom, but it’s not really a typical “my wife just doesn’t want sex anymore” situation. She’s intentionally withholding sex now and what I thought would be a short, stubborn hold out has turned into almost 3 months of no sex.
> 
> ...


Withholding sex as punishment or to force your partner to do something they don't want to do is an incredibly destructive thing to the marriage relationship. Someone, not you, needs to sit her down and explain how horrible withholding sex like she is to a marriage.

I strongly suggest marriage counseling. Maybe the marriage counselor can convince your wife to become a loving grandparent who spoils and cares for her grandchildren.

Good luck.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Young at Heart said:


> Withholding sex as punishment or to force your partner to do something they don't want to do is an incredibly destructive thing to the marriage relationship. Someone, not you, needs to sit her down and explain how horrible withholding sex like she is to a marriage.
> 
> I strongly suggest marriage counseling. Maybe the marriage counselor can convince your wife to become a loving grandparent who spoils and cares for her grandchildren.
> 
> Good luck.


This is true but I think she is genuinely hurt. Anyone going to sit him down and explain how making unilateral decisions that effect someone for life effects a marriage? Or threatening divorce? Or suggesting finding another mate?

He can't change her. I figure once they get past the emotional hurt that's happening then the sex will return if the resentment hasn't become deep rooted. He can change how he approaches the situation.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> So now that you’ve received pages of TAM wisdom, OP - what do you think your next steps are going to be?


As of yesterday my plan was to have a very long and possibly quite pointless conversation where we could both put all of our feelings, reasoning, and justifications out there and the other would be forced to listen and then not sure where we’d go from there. I was going to make the conversation happen last night but then she came home vomiting and went straight to bed. When she woke up much later as I was getting ready to go to bed myself we had a very brief interaction about it.

Next steps will probably be a very real conversation where I do my best to listen without immediately shutting her down and without any threats of divorce and she will then listen to my thoughts. Somehow I’m starting to see dirty diapers in my future and I’m not feeling too great about it but if after some time it turns out this is what she truly wants and it’s not just a whim and if it seems that she will resent me forever and ruin the rest of our marriage because she wants a baby that badly then I will really have some very serious things to consider. I didn’t think the situation was actually this serious when she first mentioned a baby 3 months ago but I thought the desire would have blown over by now.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Anastasia6 said:


> This is true but I think she is genuinely hurt. Anyone going to sit him down and explain how making unilateral decisions that effect someone for life effects a marriage? Or threatening divorce? Or suggesting finding another mate?
> 
> He can't change her. I figure once they get past the emotional hurt that's happening then the sex will return if the resentment hasn't become deep rooted. He can change how he approaches the situation.


to be fair he didn’t threaten divorce. He has been clear here that he does not want a divorce and that he will not divorce her over this.

None of us know his exact verbiage to her but I doubt he he actually told her to go have kids with someone else but rather recognized the fact that it would be in her ability to leave him and find someone else.

yes that rang the bell and your point that the bell can not be unsung is valid.

however this is a very serious situation and BOTH of them need some wake up calls and if that means ringing some obnoxious sounding bells, then so be it. This isn’t a funny, game-playing situation any more where they tease each other until one gives in.

this is a very serious situation for which I believe they need professional intervention and guidance.

in other words, yes the bell was rung but at this point a number of bells probably need to be rung to get them to wake up and take notice.


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> I was in a somewhat similar situation at 40 but instead of having a 24 year old out of the house, I had brand new baby and a 2 1/2 year old in the house (my wife was a few weeks shy of 37 at that time) But more on that below.
> 
> Mother Nature makes women want to squeeze in one more offspring before the baby making factory shuts down. It's a biological and instinctive thing. Mother Nature is whispering in a woman's ear that she needs to have one more child while she can in case the next drought, famine or epidemic kills off the ones she already has. Pre menopause is probably playing a role here too. She may be getting some signs or symptoms of impending menopause and is making one last Hail Mary play to squeeze in one more before her reproductive system closes up shop.
> 
> ...


@oldsgiry


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## Landofblue (May 28, 2019)

when is the grandchild due? I would make a deal that you wait til that baby is born before making final decisions. After all, this is THEIR time, it would be wrong to steal their thunder and the focus on them. 

after the grandchild is born I suggest you offer to take care of it as often as possible. Even having your wife go part time at work and provide free daycare. And staying with the baby and letting them have weekends away. Then see how she feels about it after 3 months of doing that.

Perhaps it will solve the need. Perhaps not. But at least you and she will be reminded of what it takes.

so perhaps for now you could offer that as a compromise and get back to living your life and having a more satisfying sex life again.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Anastasia6 said:


> Anyone going to sit him down and explain how making unilateral decisions that effect someone for life effects a marriage?



I'm flabbergasted that you can come and say that he is making an unilateral decision. The balls of some people to try to force someone to do something so profound as to bring another child to this world against his wishes. So, now he's the inconsiderate villain, making her hurt. Yeah, right, you got one coming. You must be used to all those Simp engineers to come up with that one.

Why don't you say that she made the unilateral decision that she "must" have another child? because that's exactly what she did. His reaction to that was to say no. He's damned well entitled to refuse. No questions asked, no need to justify his decision.

this is the world that men have been reduced to these days... only women have reproductive rights. Screw that.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> As of yesterday my plan was to have a very long and possibly quite pointless conversation where we could both put all of our feelings, reasoning, and justifications out there and the other would be forced to listen and then not sure where we’d go from there. I was going to make the conversation happen last night but then she came home vomiting and went straight to bed. When she woke up much later as I was getting ready to go to bed myself we had a very brief interaction about it.
> 
> Next steps will probably be a very real conversation where I do my best to listen without immediately shutting her down and without any threats of divorce and she will then listen to my thoughts. Somehow I’m starting to see dirty diapers in my future and I’m not feeling too great about it but if after some time it turns out this is what she truly wants and it’s not just a whim and if it seems that she will resent me forever and ruin the rest of our marriage because she wants a baby that badly then I will really have some very serious things to consider. I didn’t think the situation was actually this serious when she first mentioned a baby 3 months ago but I thought the desire would have blown over by now.


Having a very real, in the moment, heart to heart discussion is good. 

understand that you are not going to tell her some important piece of information that has been missing where she will see the logic and rational facts and change her mind. It’s likely biology and evolution that is driving much of this.

there not going to be a win-win here.

At best it will be a win-lose and not a lose-lose.

Assuming you remain together (which most of us think you will) that means one of you will win and one of you will lose.

the key to long term success will then be how you two can make the loser suffer the least.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> And yet by running out the clock on her you ARE making the permanent decision.


She has a 24 yr old son Anastasia. She’s had 24 years to have another. Who ran out the clock? This is a SUDDEN request from her. He doesn’t want a baby. What are you expecting of him?????


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> This is true but I think she is genuinely hurt. Anyone going to sit him down and explain how making unilateral decisions that effect someone for life effects a marriage? Or threatening divorce? Or suggesting finding another mate?
> 
> He can't change her. I figure once they get past the emotional hurt that's happening then the sex will return if the resentment hasn't become deep rooted. He can change how he approaches the situation.


It’s not as if my first response to her mention of having another baby was “maybe you can find someone else to do it with.” I’ve not threatened divorce either. I have already told her my feelings and my reasons in a rational way. All of my reasons are “selfish” and I’m being mean and unloving by not giving her another child, according to her.

What unilateral decisions am I making other than saying I don’t want to have a kid? That’s within my rights to decide I don’t want that. It’s within her rights to say she does want a baby more than anything, more than staying married to me. I’m not forcing her to sterilize herself. The truth is that if one of us has to cave it’ll probably be me. I rather just give her what she wants and suck it up than have her hold this against me for the rest of our lives. I’m not ready to do that right now though. I am hoping it won’t come to that.

There’s a chance that she could decide a baby is absolutely essential to her happiness and fulfillment. I hope that I will be able to find it in myself to give that to her because as I’ve already stated I’d probably rather do that than lose her or to have her resent me forever. If I decide that I ultimately cannot do it and it’s a dealbreaker for her then I’ll be devastated but at that point I will not be able to stop her from going out and finding somebody else to get her pregnant. I do not think we are at that point quite yet. I do think she’s shown this is more than a passing desire and I have to take her more seriously. I have probably been pretty dismissive in most of my responses to her, which has only made her more upset.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Why was she vomiting?


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Before you give in, suggest some counseling for her. Her reasoning seems "unreasonable". Maybe a good psychiatrist/counselor can talk some sense into her.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> As of yesterday my plan was to have a very long and possibly quite pointless conversation where we could both put all of our feelings, reasoning, and justifications out there and the other would be forced to listen and then not sure where we’d go from there. I was going to make the conversation happen last night but then she came home vomiting and went straight to bed. When she woke up much later as I was getting ready to go to bed myself we had a very brief interaction about it.
> 
> Next steps will probably be a very real conversation where I do my best to listen without immediately shutting her down and without any threats of divorce and she will then listen to my thoughts. Somehow I’m starting to see dirty diapers in my future and I’m not feeling too great about it but if after some time it turns out this is what she truly wants and it’s not just a whim and if it seems that she will resent me forever and ruin the rest of our marriage because she wants a baby that badly then I will really have some very serious things to consider. I didn’t think the situation was actually this serious when she first mentioned a baby 3 months ago but I thought the desire would have blown over by now.


Well, good luck to you and her. Marriage is about sacrifice, but it shouldn’t be sacrificing for your partner, out of fear. Just make sure you don’t lose your entire identity trying to please your wife, who thinks a baby will make her happy but it’s possible that she’s just struggling with becoming a grandmother. Time will unravel the truth, I hope. 

Hope your conversation goes well…think calm thoughts. lol☺


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

It seems you’re trying to figure out a way to make her happy while she’s punishing you for not letting her have her way in demanding a 20 year, many thousands of dollars drain on time and money, neither of which you’ll ever get back.

you sound totally a team player, OP. Your wife—- she has zero f’s about your feelings clearly.

Doesn’t bode well.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Blondilocks said:


> Why was she vomiting?


Don’t know. She was as white as a ghost and it was obvious she didn’t feel good but she seemed fine when she woke up at around 10:00 pm after taking a nap yesterday evening.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> It’s not as if my first response to her mention of having another baby was “maybe you can find someone else to do it with.” I’ve not threatened divorce either. I have already told her my feelings and my reasons in a rational way. All of my reasons are “selfish” and I’m being mean and unloving by not giving her another child, according to her.
> 
> What unilateral decisions am I making other than saying I don’t want to have a kid? That’s within my rights to decide I don’t want that. It’s within her rights to say she does want a baby more than anything, more than staying married to me. I’m not forcing her to sterilize herself. The truth is that if one of us has to cave it’ll probably be me. I rather just give her what she wants and suck it up than have her hold this against me for the rest of our lives. I’m not ready to do that right now though. I am hoping it won’t come to that.
> 
> There’s a chance that she could decide a baby is absolutely essential to her happiness and fulfillment. I hope that I will be able to find it in myself to give that to her because as *I’ve already stated I’d probably rather do that than lose her or to have her resent me forever.* If I decide that I ultimately cannot do it and it’s a dealbreaker for her then I’ll be devastated but at that point I will not be able to stop her from going out and finding somebody else to get her pregnant. I do not think we are at that point quite yet. I do think she’s shown this is more than a passing desire and I have to take her more seriously. I have probably been pretty dismissive in most of my responses to her, which has only made her more upset.



Then, why do you even bother to worry about anything if ultimately, when push comes to shove you will give in. I can now see why she's doing what she's doing...she must know that she has you by the balls, and you are just hopping that she will desist of her desire so that you won't have to give in. I find that rather pathetic in a man.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

CoffeeandTV said:


> It’s not as if my first response to her mention of having another baby was “maybe you can find someone else to do it with.” I’ve not threatened divorce either. I have already told her my feelings and my reasons in a rational way. All of my reasons are “selfish” and I’m being mean and unloving by not giving her another child, according to her.
> 
> What unilateral decisions am I making other than saying I don’t want to have a kid? That’s within my rights to decide I don’t want that. It’s within her rights to say she does want a baby more than anything, more than staying married to me. I’m not forcing her to sterilize herself. The truth is that if one of us has to cave it’ll probably be me. I rather just give her what she wants and suck it up than have her hold this against me for the rest of our lives. I’m not ready to do that right now though. I am hoping it won’t come to that.
> 
> There’s a chance that she could decide a baby is absolutely essential to her happiness and fulfillment. I hope that I will be able to find it in myself to give that to her because as I’ve already stated I’d probably rather do that than lose her or to have her resent me forever. If I decide that I ultimately cannot do it and it’s a dealbreaker for her then I’ll be devastated but at that point I will not be able to stop her from going out and finding somebody else to get her pregnant. I do not think we are at that point quite yet. I do think she’s shown this is more than a passing desire and I have to take her more seriously. I have probably been pretty dismissive in most of my responses to her, which has only made her more upset.


I'm shaking my head....

You already know she's going to win and have another baby. It's been 3 months and she won't back down.

Basically, you'll sacrifice yourself and the rest of your youth (20 years) for her. SMH

I don't understand why are you asking for advice when you know what's going to happen?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

And this is why we have 7 billion humans infesting the earth now with an expected doubling of the earth’s population in 50 years.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> Then, why do you even bother to worry about anything if ultimately, when push comes to shove you will give in. I can now see why she's doing what she's doing...she must know that she has you by the balls, and you are just hopping that she will desist of her desire so that you won't have to give in. I find that rather pathetic in a man.


I don’t want to give in and I’m not ready to give in. I hope that she eventually realizes this is ridiculous.

If I do agree to have another baby it won’t be because she withheld sex. I think that’s childish and selfish but I’m not desperate enough for sex to agree to have a baby with her because of it. If I agree to it, it’ll be because I love her and value what we have and everything we’ve worked for together and would rather give her a baby and stay married to her than for us to get divorced over this. If she absolutely has to have a baby I could say that’s fine and decide that I want no part in it and leave her. I could go enjoy my life as a single guy or find another woman who isn’t looking to start all over with a newborn in middle age. Most women in their 30s or 40s will probably have baggage, maybe an ex-husband, most likely a kid or two (and not fully grown like my son but likely still at home). That would make me more miserable than having a new baby with my wife whom I love and have spent over 2 decades building a life with. I would never agree to it under the current circumstances but if she can start acting like an adult and we have some ongoing serious discussions and enough time passes where I realize this desire of hers is never going away then at that point I will only have a few options and that’ll be a personal decision based on what I can live with. I really never saw this as a situation where it’d come down to us having another baby or getting a divorce, and I still don’t see it that way right now, but if it comes down to those 2 options eventually I know which way I’ll probably go. You’re free to think that’s pathetic.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Post after post you hit what I’m thinking dead on almost every time.
> 
> She thinks I’m selfish because the idea of pregnancy, the newborn stage of changes, feedings,no sleep, into the toddler stage of baby proofing your house and watching them like a hawk because they will get into anything and everything, then the school years and your calendar filled up with all of their activities - shuttling them to friends houses, to practice, to games, the doctor appointments and the orthodontist, all the money, having your house taken over each weekend by your kids friends who are spending the night, the constant worry once they’re driving and out on their own, it doesn’t sound appealing to do over again now. Not after talking about what we were going to do as adults just the two of us for the past several years.
> 
> She cannot seem to give me a valid reason as to why she wants to do all of those things again. When I bring them up she doesn’t want to discuss that part of parenting a brand new human from birth. She just says “yeah, but it’ll be so much different now because we were so young and had no money and no clue what we were doing the first time.” I’m sure it would be very different. A lot of the stressors that were there the first time won’t exist. At the same time, if she got pregnant today I’ll be 53 by the time my second child would be 10 years old. I’m fit and active and like to think I can keep up with people a decade or two younger than me now, but let’s be realistic here.


And what is her plan if you by chance have a child that has special needs? The possibility is there since she is getting older? 

It’s a reality that should be discussed - when considering pregnancy - anything is possible. Twins? Could be.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I would definitely request a pregnancy test just to be sure she isn’t already expecting now.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

pastasauce79 said:


> I'm shaking my head....
> 
> You already know she's going to win and have another baby. It's been 3 months and she won't back down.
> 
> ...


I can hold out for a lot longer. I’m not planning to give into her any time soon. She will need to do and say a lot more to convince me that having a baby is the best and only option for us right now. The withholding of sex itself has nothing to do with me agreeing to have another baby. I would like for the withholding of sex to stop. I would like for her to start acting like a rational adult. I would like for us to come to an agreement and for her to realize that having a baby right now is not the best option for us. I still believe that could happen.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I can hold out for a lot longer. I’m not planning to give into her any time soon. She will need to do and say a lot more to convince me that having a baby is the best and only option for us right now. The withholding of sex itself has nothing to do with me agreeing to have another baby. I would like for the withholding of sex to stop. I would like for her to start acting like a rational adult. I would like for us to come to an agreement and for her to realize that having a baby right now is not the best option for us. I still believe that could happen.


Considering the damage that she is doing, why don't you state that you'll consider it in 12 months if she is still serious about it. Seems like a reasonable decision to not make overnight...

If she can't stop the childish behavior with that offer, there is a bigger issue.


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## DaringGreatly (7 mo ago)

How long is it until the grandbaby arrives? If you are considering caving in to keep your marriage, Perhaps while having your heart to heart, you can offer to seriously consider it once you have both made the adjustment to becoming grandparents and giving your son and his wife the support they need in the beginning of their parenting journey . It will give you both some breathing space as nothing is permenantly decided and you both still have the options to change your minds.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> And what is her plan if you by chance have a child that has special needs? The possibility is there since she is getting older?
> 
> It’s a reality that should be discussed - when considering pregnancy - anything is possible. Twins? Could be.


There is still only a relatively small chance of having a child with special needs or having twins. Of course these are all things I’ve thought about and that she easily brushes off. She says she’d be excited to have twins (of course she would) and that she feels she could handle a child with special needs at this time in her life if that happened. She went through a phase of wanting to adopt a child with down’s syndrome when we were in our 30s. No real consideration for me and how much more work twins and/or special needs would be. We could adapt with just one typical kid with no issues. It wouldn’t be the life I’ve been envisioning in my 40s and beyond but I could adapt. I could find happiness there. Two kids or one with special needs? I’d do what I had to do and I’ve love them but that would totally change the entire game in one fell swoop.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Anastasia6 said:


> Act like he's in a partnership, make decisions as a partner. Show the value of the partnership by discussing and listening to each others side. Because of the nature of the topic and not much compromise being available. It may take multiple discussions over several months. He obviously feels strongly and so does she. It's amazing how much a little listening can do for a relationship. Note listening doesn't mean doing what the other wants. But you may at least find things you both can agree on (small things not the ultimate decision).
> 
> Patience.


If you replace "he" with "she", I think this advice applies even better to OPs wife.

Like this:

"Act like she's in a partnership, make decisions as a partner. Show the value of the partnership by discussing and listening to each others side. Because of the nature of the topic and not much compromise being available. It may take multiple discussions over several months. She obviously feels strongly and so does he. It's amazing how much a little listening can do for a relationship. Note listening doesn't mean doing what the other wants. But you may at least find things you both can agree on (small things not the ultimate decision)."

She was the one that made this major decision without him, then tried to force it on him... yet you don't seem able to hold her accountable... _at all_. Are his reactions perfect to her poor non-partner like behavior, no... but they pale comparison to the overall immature way she is dealing with the entire situation. OP loves his wife, based on her actions, can't say she loved him as much (at least not in the same ballpark).


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I would never have a baby with someone who withholds sex as punishment. Don’t have a baby against your will. It’s never a good idea.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

In typical TAM fashion...

Maybe she has already been knocked up by her young lover at the gym that she's been cheating on you with for a year, and was looking to cover it up by getting you on board with a new baby, and when the young gym rat dumped her and you wouldn't play ball, she got really upset and just lost her ****, withheld sex, full of resentment, all while knowing that the gig was soon about to be up.

That's why she played the shocked wife that you would even suggest that there could be another way to get pregnant. 

It is all a convoluted conspiracy and she was actually hoping you'd just go along with it, do the deed and submit to being the beta simp that she already thinks you are.

That's my theory.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DaringGreatly said:


> How long is it until the grandbaby arrives? If you are considering caving in to keep your marriage, Perhaps while having your heart to heart, you can offer to seriously consider it once you have both made the adjustment to becoming grandparents and giving your son and his wife the support they need in the beginning of their parenting journey . It will give you both some breathing space as nothing is permenantly decided and you both still have the options to change your minds.


November. I’m hoping she will realize the joys of being a grandparent or whatever it is she decides she will be called and that she can experience so many of the joys of babies without any of the pain and perhaps it’ll be enough to change her mind. There is no way I will cave in before that.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Tron said:


> In typical TAM fashion...
> 
> Maybe she has already been knocked up by her young lover at the gym that she's been cheating on you with for a year, and was looking to cover it up by getting you on board with a new baby, and when the young gym rat dumped her and you wouldn't play ball, she got really upset and just lost her ****, withheld sex, full of resentment, all while knowing that the gig was soon about to be up.
> 
> ...


I haven't ruled out cheating either.... but I'm also TAM jaded...


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Tron said:


> In typical TAM fashion...
> 
> Maybe she has already been knocked up by her young lover at the gym that she's been cheating on you with for a year, and was looking to cover it up by getting you on board with a new baby, and when the young gym rat dumped her and you wouldn't play ball, she got really upset and just lost her ****, withheld sex, full of resentment, all while knowing that the gig was soon about to be up.
> 
> ...


Please tell me you don’t actually think this is a real possibility. I’m laughing out loud.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Beach123 said:


> And what is her plan if you by chance have a child that has special needs? The possibility is there since she is getting older?
> 
> It’s a reality that should be discussed - when considering pregnancy - anything is possible. Twins? Could be.


She will have a geriatric pregnancy which will increase the risks of having a medically complicated pregnancy and delivery and a higher chance of having a child with special needs. 

It's their choice.

I have a friend who went through something similar. She was 39, has had fertility issues her whole life. He didn't want a child since he was already 50 years old and has a child in her 20's. Second marriage for both of them. He wanted to make her happy. She gets pregnant, and had a healthy baby. They are divorcing right now. Things changed drastically once the baby was born. It was too much for him. The child is 2. 

Be careful what you wish for.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Beach123 said:


> I would definitely request a pregnancy test just to be sure she isn’t already expecting now.


This was my thought as well.
Does she normally vomit? Has she recently lost or gained weight?
It could be that she is already pregnant, but afraid to tell you until she has you on board.
What kind of birth control do you use?
Has she been on antibiotics within the last four months?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I am still really wondering why she threw up. I mean, it wasn't flu or she'd still have it. I am still worried she is already pregnant.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Please tell me you don’t actually think this is a real possibility. I’m laughing out loud.











Heh, heh, heh!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

re16 said:


> If you replace "he" with "she", I think this advice applies even better to OPs wife.
> 
> Like this:
> 
> ...


Yeah @Anastasia6 , you are not wrong that they need to have a real open , sit down, come-to-Jesus meeting (personally, I think they need to go to MC) but she needs to grow up and stop with the school-girl games and she also needs to understand where he is coming from and work with him as well. 

There is no win-win here and one of them is going to come out the loser and he has pretty much already raised the white flag and said it's going to be him. So if she wants him to have his head in the game and not have him all resentful and bitter and depressed, She's going to need to be understanding and compassionate of him as well. 

If she starts acting all nannanannabooboo I won! And then expects him to simply fall in line and be Wonder Dad, she's gonna have another thing coming. 

Men may not harbor resentment and bitterness and scorn the same way women do. But they only take so much misery and disrespect and then they are gone. 

Getting knocked up is easy. She can do that the next time she ovulates. But if she wants this baby raised in a happy, healthy, loving, two-parent home with the OP, she is going to have to grow up and make some serious concessions of her own if she wants this to work long term.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Please tell me you don’t actually think this is a real possibility. I’m laughing out loud.


Similar has happened.

I do hope when you sit down and listen you also take the opportunity to talk. Discuss with her in a non-accusatory way how you feel that the withhold sex is passive aggressive or not a good way to build your marriage. I don't think that should be dismissed either. Sure there are going to be days when you two are at odds that emotionally she's not going to want it. You either like you said. But I'd center this conversation you want to discuss the baby and the sex and retirement because you do love her and do want to be with her but you feel that your relationship is currently strained. Say either way it turns out then you want your marriage to be stronger. She may eventually see it your way and agree she doesn't want to start over. She may not. I will say 3 months is a long time for a whim. You yourself said you didn't think it was jealousy of the other pregnant woman. More than likely the other pregnant woman probably made her think more about babies and about her age and about how her time is running out.

And I'm not trying to attack you about a unilateral decision. But a unilateral decision is one made by one person. You are making the decision to not have a baby and it effects both of you. She wants to have a baby but as of right now she hasn't stolen your sperm and impregnated herself so no she isn't making a unilateral decision. 

I may not be saying this right. You have every right to decide you don't want another baby. But there are personal decisions and there are team decisions. If you make a personal decision without considering how it effects your team specifically your wife then in the long run most people have the nature that the consequences and perceived negative impacts fall on the person who made the unilateral decision. Me and my husband have had plenty of big bag things happen in our marriage. We don't blame the other person because each big decision is made by both of us. So even if one person felt more strongly we don't say oh it's your fault because you wanted to buy that stupid car. Sometimes we talk several day in circles to understand each other and come to a mutual decision. A long tine ago I had a thought about adopting, I actually was quite certain for many years. My husband wasn't as keen. We went through some of the paperwork and training but in the end decided against it. There are times I wish my family was bigger but I don't hold it against my husband be cause it was mutual.

I do hope you two can communicate without threats or accusations. these are big decisions and deserve some serious talk and sharing of feelings. Allow yourself to be a sounding board for her.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Cynthia said:


> This was my thought as well.
> Does she normally vomit? Has she recently lost or gained weight?
> It could be that she is already pregnant, but afraid to tell you until she has you on board.
> What kind of birth control do you use?
> Has she been on antibiotics within the last four months?


No she doesn’t normally vomit. Now that I think about it she did throw up less than a week ago, last Friday night. We were watching tv in bed at around 9 pm and out of the blue she said she didn’t feel good and she ran to the bathroom and threw up. We had eaten out that night and she said something just didn’t sit well with her. No weight gain or weight loss that’s at all noticeable. She still jogging every morning, exercising and acting as normal as ever in most regards.

She’s on the pill and she has a “period” once a month with bleeding that usually lasts 3 days or so. I saw the blood last night so unless she was pregnant and had a miscarriage which I can’t imagine she’d just be silent about and crawl into bed and go to sleep while it was happening, I don’t think she’s pregnant or has recently been pregnant without my knowledge.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Tron said:


> Heh, heh, heh!


That gif makes me shudder.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

A baby is a lifetime commitment. Even Moreno at 40. OP is crazy to consider having one when he really doesn’t want it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I am afraid that the sooner they have the come to Jesus meeting, the sooner he is going to agree to having a baby, because that will bring everything to a head. She is not going to adjust her stance, so there's no reason to think she will just because they continue talking. I think she knows him well enough to know she'll win this eventually because he doesn't want to lose her. But that said, I'm glad he did mention about other men in their conversation because that wasn't something she expected to hear come out of his mouth and might have made her a little less arrogant and certain she could coerce him to father a baby.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> #1 - I hope that she eventually realizes this is ridiculous.
> 
> 
> #2- if she can start acting like an adult and we have some ongoing serious discussions and enough time passes where I realize this desire of hers is never going away then at that point I will only have a few options and that’ll be a personal decision based on what I can live with.


#1 - That ain't gonna happen. This is being driven by some deep, instinctual, biological forces beyond our comprehension and not by any kind of rational logic. If human reproduction were left up to rational logic, there would be no babies and no humans on the planet. 

#2 - it probably won't go away and may even get worse until she starts going into actual menopause and the baby factory starts to actually shut down and close up shop. 

The one ray of hope that could impact both 1 and 2 is if she does some full weekend and overnight babysitting for the grandchild. 

There is a risk that it can make it worse. 

But there is also the chance that it could make her realize how difficult and miserable it really is to take care of a baby.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I would like for us to come to an agreement and for her to realize that having a baby right now is not the best option for us. I still believe that could happen.


If she thinks things will be different this time, she's right. Things can be worse. 

She has definitely forgotten how exhausting pregnancy can be. How exhausting a newborn is. The scary part is she doesn't have a realistic idea of how life changing having a baby at 40 could be. How is she going to manage work? Sick days? Summer break? My kids are 11 and 13 and I'm still exhausted sometimes! 

I think she needs help realizing a baby is not a puppy. A baby needs constant attention, constant investment, constant everything! It's not just the money, otherwise poor people wouldn't have babies. You need to be ready to raise this tiny human being and be there for him/her 100% of the time. Just thinking about it makes me tired! 

It won't be fair to the baby if your wife is not seriously thinking and planning for his/her arrival. This is very immature and you are crazy to even consider having a baby with someone who thinks having a baby is all rainbows and unicorns.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Please tell me you don’t actually think this is a real possibility. I’m laughing out loud.


Nothing you have said thus far sets off any alarm bells of any infidelity on her part. 

However understand that we have seen quite a few cases of infidelity on this site that had less warning signs and less chaos than your situation. 

I would be more concerned if she suddenly came home and started attacking you like a tiger and initiating lots of sex. It's not a rare instance where a cheating wife knows or suspects she was knocked up by the other man and then comes home and screws the husband so he thinks the child is his ( aka cuckolding) 

If your wife has been rejecting you for months and then is screwing some other guy to get pregnant, then she's really dumb if she thinks you won't be suspicious of that.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DaringGreatly said:


> How long is it until the grandbaby arrives? If you are considering caving in to keep your marriage, Perhaps while having your heart to heart, you can offer to seriously consider it once you have both made the adjustment to becoming grandparents and giving your son and his wife the support they need in the beginning of their parenting journey . It will give you both some breathing space as nothing is permenantly decided and you both still have the options to change your minds.


This. 

I feel most badly for the son. Instead of having a mother excited that her child is going to have his first baby, and excited about it all, he has a mother caught up in withholding sex from his father because suddenly she has gone off the rails about having a baby of her own.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> It’s not a different version of my first post, in which I clearly mentioned that we’d had sex a few times. Maybe those people who want to insist I’m twisting the story didn’t even read the entire first post I made. That information was there all along.
> 
> Again, if people want to really get into the weeds over this situation because we have in fact had sex a total of 5 times in 3 months vs. zero times then go ahead and do that. Wouldn’t you see it as a problem if you went from 5 times a week to 5 times in 3 months and your wife declared aloud that she was not going to have sex to punish you for not having a baby? I don’t understand wanting to nitpick this part.


I reread it and saw that it wasn't zero. The gist seemed like it was but it was a long post. LoL!

I absolutely see a problem and I still think she should get a checkup.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Livvie said:


> This.
> 
> I feel most badly for the son. Instead of having a mother excited that her child is going to have his first baby, and excited about it all, he has a mother caught up in withholding sex from his father because suddenly she has gone off the rails about having a baby of her own.


Hopefully, the dil's mother isn't a nutjob. Some of these families need a Jerry Springer to unravel the particulars. There is nothing like assuming two babes are cousins and then finding out the older one is calling the younger one auntie or uncle.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I asked before and didn't see am answer
Why haven't you gotten a vasectomy? Why does she need to take the pill if it's you that doesn't want more kids?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

pastasauce79 said:


> If she thinks things will be different this time, she's right. Things can be worse.
> 
> She has definitely forgotten how exhausting pregnancy can be. How exhausting a newborn is. The scary part is she doesn't have a realistic idea of how life changing having a baby at 40 could be. How is she going to manage work? Sick days? Summer break? My kids are 11 and 13 and I'm still exhausted sometimes!
> 
> ...


I had my plumbing disconnected at 40 when my second was born as there was no way I was going to do any more. 

That being said, My wife turned 37 three weeks after his arrival. We both worked in very high stress and high acuity health care settings. It was tough but here we are. DD 20 is loading up her car to head off to another college as we speak. DS18 starts his senior year of high school next week. 

And in between no diaper went unchanged, no meal missed, all the puke was cleaned up etc. At least one of us made it to all the doctor's appointments, all the PTA meetings and parent-teacher conferences and all of the soccer games and gymnastics and all the football games and wrestling meets. And we went on vacations. We bought new cars. We moved into a new house. I'm on my 5th motorcycle. We've never missed a mortgage payment or ever had a utility shut off. We've been through braces and retainers and had all the wisdom teeth out. The lawn gets mowed (by DS18 now, I said I'd never do it again last summer LOL) The kids have all had sleepovers at our house and sleepovers at friends houses. My wife and have had our parties and fun too (oh boy did we ever at times!!  ) 

So bottom line is we did it all and we are standing here alive and kicking. We may have a few frown lines and I am now shaved bald as a cue ball but here we are. 

Would I ever do it again? OH HELL TO THE NO!!!!!! 

But I am living proof that it can be done and in my never to humble opinion - done well. 

I completely, 100%, without question, understand the OP's reluctance to be a father again at 40. But I was a father of new born baby AND a 2 1/2 year old at 40, and here I am. My wife is still 125lbs and can still stop traffic when she polishes up and I still make it to the gym most days of the week and still ride to work on a motorcycle every day. And my son is my best buddy that I ride motorcycles with and do competitive shooting with and go hunting and fishing with etc and life is good. 
It's tough. And I understand and empathize with anyone that is not up for kids at any age. 

But don't let anyone say it 'can't' be done.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Blondilocks said:


> Hopefully, the dil's mother isn't a nutjob. Some of these families need a Jerry Springer to unravel the particulars. There is nothing like assuming two babes are cousins and then finding out the older one is calling the younger one auntie or uncle.


My son’s MIL is not a nutjob and neither is my wife for that matter. When dealing with my son, our daughter-in-law, and the baby on the way she is perfectly capable of being excited for them and being supportive of them while also not imposing on their experience and their roles as soon to be parents. She’s excited for the baby. I know that she has struggled to let him grow up. Him getting married was hard for her but she never let on to him. She felt he was too young. I secretly felt the same and had hoped he’d wait longer but he and his girlfriend had been together since they were 18 and we saw it coming soon after college. I’m pretty sure she hasn’t even mentioned her desire to have a baby to him or his wife. The only reason he knows anything about it is because I told him.

I do find the idea of my own child being younger than my grandchild a bit unsettling though.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> Yeah @Anastasia6 , you are not wrong that they need to have a real open , sit down, come-to-Jesus meeting (personally, I think they need to go to MC) but she needs to grow up and stop with the school-girl games and she also needs to understand where he is coming from and work with him as well.
> 
> There is no win-win here and one of them is going to come out the loser and he has pretty much already raised the white flag and said it's going to be him. So if she wants him to have his head in the game and not have him all resentful and bitter and depressed, She's going to need to be understanding and compassionate of him as well.
> 
> ...


And that is a huge issue. What happens when he wants some attention orva night out and she's exhausted? Or when she's touched out? Is she going to dig down deep and remember his sacrifice for her? Or is she going to tell him that with a child to care for, his requests are unreasonable?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> I asked before and didn't see am answer
> Why haven't you gotten a vasectomy? Why does she need to take the pill if it's you that doesn't want more kids?


One possibility, based on my personal experience, is that it will make things worse. I agree with the opinion she thinks she will win him over. If he permanently shuts it down, he might lose her.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

DTO said:


> One possibility, based on my personal experience, is that it will make things worse. I agree with the opinion she thinks she will win him over. If he permanently shuts it down, he might lose her.


I can understand that. I've just don't understood why it's on her to worry about BC, and the risks of the pill increase after age 35.

He could've shut this down a long time ago and this wouldn't be an argument.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> I can understand that. I've just don't understood why it's on her to worry about BC, and the risks of the pill increase after age 35.
> 
> He could've shut this down a long time ago and this wouldn't be an argument.


All very true.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I really never saw this as a situation where it’d come down to us having another baby or getting a divorce, and I still don’t see it that way right now, but if it comes down to those 2 options eventually I know which way I’ll probably go. You’re free to think that’s pathetic.


Well, here is one man who doesn't think you pathetic at all. In your situation I would proceed exactly as you are. You summed up your situation in this post very well. You have been with her your entire adult life. The mistake would be throwing that away.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rus47 said:


> Well, here is one man who doesn't think you pathetic at all. In your situation I would proceed exactly as you are. You summed up your situation in this post very well. You have been with her your entire adult life. The mistake would be throwing that away.


He's not throwing anything away. He has made clear that he is not going to leave her because she wants another child nor was he going to leave her over the sex issue. He is not the leaver here. I think some people are confused on that and think that he has but it needs to be made clear that he has never even considered let alone threatened to divorce her over any of this. 

What has been discussed in the risk of her ultimately leaving him if she had a bad enough case of the Baby Rabies and he steadfastly refuses to father another. 

Thus far she has not threatened to leave or threatened to find someone else. She's been playing school-girl games to tease and manipulate him, but she has not threatened to leave. 

And now he has come out and said that if push comes to shove and it looks like she is serious, he will back down and capitulate.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> He could've shut this down a long time ago and this wouldn't be an argument.


True. 

But she has also had 23 years to have had another child. 

I believe at some point he even mentioned that she was the one that was the most adement about not having more kids throughout the years. He said that 10-15 years ago he would have been open to the idea but she was the one saying no. 

My point here is he was not the one hell-bent on not having kids in the past. 

If he was hell-bent on not having any more kids in the past, then yes, he should have gotten the plumbing disconnected himself. But he was open to the idea up untill the last handful of years. 

And she hadn't said anything about wanting kids until springing all this on him in the last few months.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Jimi007 said:


> @oldsgiry


huh?????????


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I think you deserve a short vacation from her. Why don't you plan at least a weekend away fishing or something like that without her and just tell her you need to take a break. I think it would throw her off balance a little and make her a little less sure of herself. And it would give you a break from the stalemate. And you could even tell her that.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

lifeistooshort said:


> I asked before and didn't see am answer
> Why haven't you gotten a vasectomy? Why does she need to take the pill if it's you that doesn't want more kids?


I’ve been asking myself the same thing over the past few months.

I always assumed we’d have one or two more. We seriously discussed having another when our son was 10-12 years old. We (jointly) ultimately decided not to have another at that time. My wife was still in her 20s, had recently graduated college, and was just starting in her career. We finally felt pretty stable. Our son was heading to middle school. We decided it wasn’t a great time and it would be a big age gap and we were happy with how things were without adding another kid.

We discussed me getting a vasectomy but mind you I was barely 30 years old so we decided against me having one at the time “just in case.” She was more against the vasectomy back then than I was. We knew birth control wasn’t 100% effective and if she unintentionally got pregnant that we’d keep the baby and we’d live with it and be fine. So that’s how we carried on. Looking back now, maybe we should have made a point to revisit additional children periodically over the years just to make sure we were on the same page, but we never really did. I guess it was sort of out of sight out of mind for me and getting a vasectomy didn’t cross my mind much, until recently. She never brought it up either or mentioned anything about me getting one so she could stop taking birth control. I just got used to the way things were and didn’t really think about it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’ve been asking myself the same thing over the past few months.
> 
> I always assumed we’d have one or two more. We seriously discussed having another when our son was 10-12 years old. We (jointly) ultimately decided not to have another at that time. My wife was still in her 20s, had recently graduated college, and was just starting in her career. We finally felt pretty stable. Our son was heading to middle school. We decided it wasn’t a great time and it would be a big age gap and we were happy with how things were without adding another kid.
> 
> We discussed me getting a vasectomy but mind you I was barely 30 years old so we decided against me having one at the time “just in case.” She was more against the vasectomy back then than I was. We knew birth control wasn’t 100% effective and if she unintentionally got pregnant that we’d keep the baby and we’d live with it and be fine. So that’s how we carried on. Looking back now, maybe we should have made a point to revisit additional children periodically over the years just to make sure we were on the same page, but we never really did. I guess it was sort of out of sight out of mind for me and getting a vasectomy didn’t cross my mind much, until recently. She never brought it up either or mentioned anything about me getting one so she could stop taking birth control. I just got used to the way things were and didn’t really think about it.


That's fair.

Have you had a compassionate sit down with her and discussed pros and cons? Your wife is in panic mode now with a grandchild coming and her declining fertility. A lot of women go a little nuts as the window closes....it's not something men can understand.

I think this panic phase will pass but I don't think its helpful to just say no, call her selfish and unhinged (like a lot of posters), or tell her to leave. Ultimately you cannot stop her if she decides to leave but some discussion where her feelings are at least acknowledged might go a long way. Make your case for why it's not a good idea.

This power play of her demanding and you saying no is a parent child dynamic.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Hopefully, the dil's mother isn't a nutjob. Some of these families need a Jerry Springer to unravel the particulars. There is nothing like assuming two babes are cousins and then finding out the older one is calling the younger one auntie or uncle.


My children who are in their late 30's and 40's have an uncle who is in his late 20's, its not an issue.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> My son’s MIL is not a nutjob and neither is my wife for that matter. When dealing with my son, our daughter-in-law, and the baby on the way she is perfectly capable of being excited for them and being supportive of them while also not imposing on their experience and their roles as soon to be parents. She’s excited for the baby. I know that she has struggled to let him grow up. Him getting married was hard for her but she never let on to him. She felt he was too young. I secretly felt the same and had hoped he’d wait longer but he and his girlfriend had been together since they were 18 and we saw it coming soon after college. I’m pretty sure she hasn’t even mentioned her desire to have a baby to him or his wife. The only reason he knows anything about it is because I told him.
> 
> I do find the idea of my own child being younger than my grandchild a bit unsettling though.


I have a half brother who is about 30 years younger than me. Its not a big deal to me.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

I’m out of ideas for the time being.

I came home tonight, told her I loved her and that I’m tired of the current situation, said I was sorry if I’ve been too dismissive, and that I think we need to have a real, honest, sit down conversation where she can say as much as she wants and I will actually listen and consider what she has to say without being dismissive as long as she agrees to do the same for me.

Her response was “no, I’m over it.” She’s not over it - I know that, she knows that, anyone who has read this thread know that. She said she’s over it, she’s just being foolish, we’re too old, and it’s her fault for waiting so long to decide she wanted a baby. All very flat and monotone, won’t even look me in the eye. I don’t know if this is all part of trying to make me feel bad or what, but it’s a totally different approach from the “let me tease you and then shut you down at the last minute as a slip away delightfully” thing she’s been doing.

I can’t win. Yeah, going away by myself for a long weekend is sounding pretty nice right about now.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> That's fair.
> 
> Have you had a compassionate sit down with her and discussed pros and cons? Your wife is in panic mode now with a grandchild coming and her declining fertility. A lot of women go a little nuts as the window closes....it's not something men can understand.
> 
> ...


It's a really tough situation he's in. At the moment, focused on her emotions, she's only interested in the answer, not the reasons. The best he can do is acknowledge her sorrow, basically accept it as a loss she's experiencing, and then what exactly? Ask what he can do to help? The normal thing is exactly that- what can I do to make things better for you. But right now, she's only seeing one answer to that question. 

She deserves respect and empathy for what she's going through. How best to show that? And the fear he's living with... that he will look back at this time, this week/month/whatever, as the time when a great marriage went bad. What can he do to keep that from happening?

Do you just wait it out until she finds a calmer path that allows her to move on from this loss? How do you do that without being condescending, a version of waiting "until she comes to her senses?"

This could be a real crisis point in their lives, something unexpected and neither able to deal with.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m out of ideas for the time being.
> 
> I came home tonight, told her I loved her and that I’m tired of the current situation, said I was sorry if I’ve been too dismissive, and that I think we need to have a real, honest, sit down conversation where she can say as much as she wants and I will actually listen and consider what she has to say without being dismissive as long as she agrees to do the same for me.
> 
> ...


Since you/we all know she isn’t really over it, I think you should follow through with having a sit down discussion about it with the goal to be for each of you to truly hear and understand each other. 

The caveat would be to not give her the impression that YOU are having second thoughts or changing your tune.

the purpose is to understand each other and grasp how serious each of you is.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I’m of the firm belief that - given the choice - no couple should have a baby unless BOTH in the partnership are in total agreement about bringing a baby into this world. 

No way it ends well if both aren’t on the same page.


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## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

OP, I think you also need to seriously consider how likely it will be that you begin to resent your wife if you end having another child. You’re worried about her resenting you but what about the other way around. Do you wanna be in your late 40s / early 50s with an elementary age child and a wife you’ve grown to greatly resent ??? Does not sound pleasant.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m out of ideas for the time being.
> 
> I came home tonight, told her I loved her and that I’m tired of the current situation, said I was sorry if I’ve been too dismissive, and that I think we need to have a real, honest, sit down conversation where she can say as much as she wants and I will actually listen and consider what she has to say without being dismissive as long as she agrees to do the same for me.
> 
> ...


Maybe she’s going through something right now in coming to terms with some regrets from the past and the whole grandmother thing sort of pushed her into a different mindset. I think going away to clear your head wouldn’t be a bad idea but I think she may just be sad. Grieving what could have been?

It might take some time but I think you’ve done all you can. She should seek some counseling though because she clearly has some things to sort out that honestly, you might not be able to “fix.” 

But, know that you’re not a “bad guy” for not wanting to have another baby. She shouldn’t make you feel that way and I’m thinking tonight wasn’t her trying to make you feel bad rather, her realizing that what she wants isn’t an easy ask and it won’t be all that fun if her husband isn’t on the same page.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Anastasia6 said:


> And yet by running out the clock on her you ARE making the permanent decision.


Um, piping up at 40+ that you want to have another baby is her having run out her own clock. This really isn't on him.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m out of ideas for the time being.
> 
> I came home tonight, told her I loved her and that I’m tired of the current situation, said I was sorry if I’ve been too dismissive, and that I think we need to have a real, honest, sit down conversation where she can say as much as she wants and I will actually listen and consider what she has to say without being dismissive as long as she agrees to do the same for me.
> 
> ...


Could this be part of her realization that she’s been acting crazy? Could her monotone be because she’s hurt and embarrassed? She may need time to get over it and deal with that part of her life being over. It’s very sad when you realize it’s over. Nothing is over for you, as all the posters said, at any moment, on a whim, you walk away, find a 22 year old and start over. She has no options. I’m not trying to make you feel bad, and I know she’s been a huge pain in the butt and her behavior has been completely out of bounds and ridiculous. I’ll get crucified for being “on her side,” but I’m not on any side. I’m trying to explain where her head is right now. She is miserable and completely alone. She has to figure out what she’s going to do to fill the years ahead of her. Probably She feels like she has zero hope and zero purpose. She needs to get through this; it’s like a death, because her youth is dead. She needs time to realize that she has a new grandchild to look forward to. She has a job so she has money, she can travel, make new friends. She will be ok but this is really hard. Maybe after her behavior sympathy is too much to ask, but if you could spare some patience that would be great.Maybe getting out of town for a few days to leave her in peace is a good idea. She can have a good cry and figure what’s next for her.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m out of ideas for the time being.
> 
> I came home tonight, told her I loved her and that I’m tired of the current situation, said I was sorry if I’ve been too dismissive, and that I think we need to have a real, honest, sit down conversation where she can say as much as she wants and I will actually listen and consider what she has to say without being dismissive as long as she agrees to do the same for me.
> 
> ...


I think you need to be the rock for her and the marriage. It seems to me that she is struggling psychologically right now. You should be sympathetic to her. I think she needs your help. Trying following through with the conversation. You two just need to have a calm, loving, yet serious discussion, so you as a team feel like it was all worked out together.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> He could've shut this down a long time ago and this wouldn't be an argument.


Depends on the people, and how well and honest they communicate.

I had a vasectomy when my wife was 42, with my wife’s knowledge and no big objection (that I noticed). I did it for my own reasons (fear), but also thought I was being a standup guy doing what I could to take ownership of BC.

She said years later (age 54ish) that I prevented her from having a son, she was hurt by my unilateral decision, and that that was part of her resentment towards me.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lotsofheart73 said:


> OP, I think you also need to seriously consider how likely it will be that you begin to resent your wife if you end having another child. You’re worried about her resenting you but what about the other way around. Do you wanna be in your late 40s / early 50s with an elementary age child and a wife you’ve grown to greatly resent ??? Does not sound pleasant.


This is also something that needs to be addressed.

you may be begrudgingly willing to ultimately consent to another child. But what will YOUR level of resentment be and what impact will that have on everything.

She also needs to be aware your resentment and weigh that into the calculus.

And if she simply doesn’t care and her want for another baby completely overshadows your resentment, then you need to be aware of that as well.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I can’t help think how different this would be if the genders were reversed and it was the guy wanting another kid and the 40 year wife did not.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

A good productive conversation with her IS necessary. 
She may be dismissing you now. It’s the most unhealthy response from her.

She is consistent. Consistently mean and destructive to your marriage.

There are things about how she is behaving that you really need to address. You need to tell her you need to be heard!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> I can’t help think how different this would be if the genders were reversed and it was the guy wanting another kid and the 40 year wife did not.


How do you think it would go?

I'd have the same opinion.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> How do you think it would go?
> 
> I'd have the same opinion.


I’m interested to know too.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think you need to be the rock for her and the marriage. It seems to me that she is struggling psychologically right now. You should be sympathetic to her. I think she needs your help. Trying following through with the conversation. You two just need to have a calm, loving, yet serious discussion, so you as a team feel like it was all worked out together.


The thing is she may be struggling emotionally but she's doing it in the most self-indulgent destructive way possible that is hard to sympathize with. She's like a kid that wants a piece of candy and won't stop screaming until you give them one.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

It turns out she told her mom and her mom told her she was crazy and should have brought this up 10 years ago. She says that’s what’s put her in this mood. She probably turned to her mom hoping that she’d find somebody that’d agree with her and didn’t expect the reaction she got. She doesn’t want to talk right now but I will make her talk about it soon enough. I still feel like we need to hash it out and I can’t accept a day to night change in her attitude because I know she most definitely isn’t over it and won’t be for a long time, if ever.

You can call me a simp or whatever you want to say, but I actually feel pretty bad for her right now. I wish we wanted to same thing and that I could easily just give it to her with no second thoughts. I like to take care of her and to provide for her but I just can’t bring myself to give her what she thinks she wants or needs right now.

Meanwhile I feel like I’m about to explode without any sex and as guilty as I feel knowing she is feels so down right now I’m going to have to go watch some porn so that I can finally relax. I don’t even think she’s holding onto the no sex thing anymore after today but it doesn’t feel right to initiate sex when she’s crying her eyes out and surrounded by a mountain of tissues on the bed.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Poor woman. It’s such a lonely feeling. She probably did think her mom would agree, but like a good mom she delivered the hard truth. It was what she needed to hear. She may need a couple of days to work through this before she can pull herself together. I wish she had a friend to turn to. How’s that weekend trip away looking? She’s going to be down for bit and you clearly are at your wit’s end.

I’m glad you didn’t follow the majority of advice to just leave her because she’s struggling. She’ll pull through.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

lifeistooshort said:


> That's fair.
> 
> Have you had a compassionate sit down with her and discussed pros and cons? Your wife is in panic mode now with a grandchild coming and her declining fertility. A lot of women go a little nuts as the window closes....it's not something men can understand.
> 
> ...


I’ve told her my reasons for not wanting another baby now. I feel that I’ve said them in a rational way. We’ve not had a real heart to heart about it. I admit I’ve probably been pretty dismissive and she doesn’t want to listen to my reasons either. Now I realize even if neither of us is willing to budge, we have to really talk about it. Tried to last night and she was sick and went to bed as soon as she got home from work. Tonight, well, she’s refusing and now she’s in the bedroom sobbing so I don’t think a rational conversations happening tonight either. One of the much earlier comments here said something about sometimes you just need to have a really long drawn out pointless conversation to at least say you did. I don’t think it’ll be completely pointless but we need to just air everything out because what’s happening now cannot continue.

I personally think this phase will likely pass eventually. I am hoping we can just get through it and eventually it’ll go away. I know that sounds dismissive to call it a phase but that’s how I see it and she has yet to convince me otherwise. Maybe if she wasn’t behaving like a bratty teenager over it I wouldn’t still be calling it a phase. I do take her desire more seriously than I did 3 months ago. I believe that _she_ believes this is truly what she wants and maybe it is and this won’t just pass, but to me the timing of a grandchild and being 40, this sudden overwhelming need for a baby out of nowhere, it just doesn’t have me completely convinced. I believe she is upset, whether over a missed chance to have a kid years ago, her age/feeling old, I don’t know, but it’s more than just wanting a baby.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m out of ideas for the time being.
> 
> I came home tonight, told her I loved her and that I’m tired of the current situation, said I was sorry if I’ve been too dismissive, and that I think we need to have a real, honest, sit down conversation where she can say as much as she wants and I will actually listen and consider what she has to say without being dismissive as long as she agrees to do the same for me.
> 
> ...


I think she is over it as much as she's going to get over it and that you should encourage that instead of dismiss the notion that she might actually have turned the corner in favor of rationality.

I think talking to her mother brought her down to earth. I do think she has this whole big trigger to do with her parents most likely because of the teen pregnancy. But there's nothing you can do about that at this late a date.

I'm afraid if you give her much rope in your desire to soothe her, she'll get all fired up again and I think as long as she's saying she's over it you should reward that instead of deny it. Then once that is settled, you can deal with whatever else you need to deal with or suggest counseling or whatever. But I think her mother burst her bubble and I think that's good. Because that's what it was and it was for all the wrong reasons.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Now might be a good time to go do something fun together as a couple to remind her of the benefits and freedom you have at this stage in your life.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

This may be the very first time her mom has ever been on my side. I’m marking this day in the calendar. I should probably go out and buy a lotto ticket now too.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

The one thing you should realize. She has shown you a side that you may not have noticed or ignored before.
This is a part of who she is.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Anastasia6 said:


> This is true but I think she is genuinely hurt. Anyone going to sit him down and explain how making unilateral decisions that effect someone for life effects a marriage? Or threatening divorce? Or suggesting finding another mate?
> 
> He can't change her. I figure once they get past the emotional hurt that's happening then the sex will return if the resentment hasn't become deep rooted. He can change how he approaches the situation.


All true, he can't change her, but her weaponizing sex by intentionally withholding it, will destroy a marriage very quickly. It is a horrific thing to do, in my book, because I had a wife who told me she would never have sex with me again, it was a statement that if this doesn't get fixed, it is divorce. 

I am sure that he is part of the problem, but the biggest thing that needs to get immediately fixed if the marriage is to survive is the use of sex as a weapon.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You’ve made every attempt to straighten things out with her. Her mom was exactly right—if having another baby was such a big deal and not a spur of the moment desire brought in by her DIL having a baby, she should have done it a while ago. She chose not to many years ago due to career, etc. why don’t you get to choose not to now? 

You’ve done all you can, and you’re trying to handle this compassionately. YOU have made an effort to see her perspective and value her desires.

It’s about time she made an apology and started considering your feelings and desires also. You’ve made it all these years together. I’ll bet you and she will be fine for many more.

What she did with punishing you like this….. gotta hurt. Uncalled for. 

If I has to guess, I’d say she’s been treated like a princess and put on a pedestal by you for so long…… she’s started taking you for granted.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> This may be the very first time her mom has ever been on my side. I’m marking this day in the calendar. I should probably go out and buy a lotto ticket now too.


I think you're correct, this is a phase. If my MIL agreed with me, I'd for sure buy a lotto ticket. 🤪


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

If it hadn't lasted three punitive months, I'd have thought it was a manic phase.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If it hadn't lasted three punitive months, I'd have thought it was a manic phase.


The OP is really patient. After three months, he's tense and exhausted of her, but still seems to want to work it out.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’ve told her my reasons for not wanting another baby now. I feel that I’ve said them in a rational way. We’ve not had a real heart to heart about it. I admit I’ve probably been pretty dismissive and she doesn’t want to listen to my reasons either. Now I realize even if neither of us is willing to budge, we have to really talk about it. Tried to last night and she was sick and went to bed as soon as she got home from work. Tonight, well, she’s refusing and now she’s in the bedroom sobbing so I don’t think a rational conversations happening tonight either. One of the much earlier comments here said something about sometimes you just need to have a really long drawn out pointless conversation to at least say you did. I don’t think it’ll be completely pointless but we need to just air everything out because what’s happening now cannot continue.
> 
> I personally think this phase will likely pass eventually. I am hoping we can just get through it and eventually it’ll go away. I know that sounds dismissive to call it a phase but that’s how I see it and she has yet to convince me otherwise. Maybe if she wasn’t behaving like a bratty teenager over it I wouldn’t still be calling it a phase. I do take her desire more seriously than I did 3 months ago. I believe that _she_ believes this is truly what she wants and maybe it is and this won’t just pass, but to me the timing of a grandchild and being 40, this sudden overwhelming need for a baby out of nowhere, it just doesn’t have me completely convinced. I believe she is upset, whether over a missed chance to have a kid years ago, her age/feeling old, I don’t know, but it’s more than just wanting a baby.


I think you need to treat her for how she feels about it. She feels she's really lost something. She's heartbroken. Yes, that will fade with time, but she needs empathy and reassurance more than she needs to be convinced having a kid is a bad idea. 

Regarding the tension you're feeling going so long without sex, just make sure you're not tricked into something. This would not be the time to practice withdrawal; you might be on a hair trigger. So... probably also a good idea to leave sex completely off the table if you grieve and sympathize with her and then get amorous.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> The OP is really patient. After three months, he's tense and exhausted of her, but still seems to want to work it out.


I can see why though, this is a 25 year relationship we're talking about. A generation. A quarter of a century. Far too precious to just throw away at the first sign of an issue.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

frusdil said:


> I can see why though, this is a 25 year relationship we're talking about. A generation. A quarter of a century. Far too precious to just throw away at the first sign of an issue.


Celebrated the 25th anniversary of our first date in April and I know it was right around this time in August 1997 that she found out she was pregnant. She remembers the exact date. I only remember date of conception, but it was the 4th of July so I have a cheat there.

I’m not really sure where all of that time between now and then went, kind of crazy. I guess she spends a lot more time thinking about those things which is probably why she’s having the problems she’s dealing with now. She gets kind of sad over every big anniversary, every big birthday. She usually cries on our son’s birthday each year too.

I never would have imagined being with the same girl since I was 17 but I’ve been completed dedicated to her the entire time. I’m not going to lose her over this. I just hope we can get through this without a lifetime of resentment moving forward.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> You’ve made every attempt to straighten things out with her. Her mom was exactly right—if having another baby was such a big deal and not a spur of the moment desire brought in by her DIL having a baby, she should have done it a while ago. She chose not to many years ago due to career, etc. why don’t you get to choose not to now?
> 
> You’ve done all you can, and you’re trying to handle this compassionately. YOU have made an effort to see her perspective and value her desires.
> 
> ...


Yeah, she is my princess and I don’t care how much of a simp that makes me. I’ll proudly declare it all day long. The way she still looks at me so many years later, the same way she did when she had a crush on me in high school, is worth it. Other than the past few months she’s been a great and loyal wife, always a good and loving mother to our son, supported me in everything I’ve ever done and been an equal partner who worked just as hard as I did, sometimes probably even harder, to build our life together and to prove everyone wrong, and not to be taken lightly, consistently had passionate sex with me many times a week without fail for over 2 decades which is more than a majority of my friends can say for their wives (and in some cases ex wives).

But I agree. I think I’m owed an apology for the last 3 months. I’d just like to hear her admit how childish she behaved and own up to it and admit how hurtful it’s been. She doesn’t have to say she was or is wrong for wanting another baby. It’s not wrong to feel that way.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I’d say the weekend away may be useful. You can tell her you need time away to think about things. Then don’t say anything further. She can be left wondering if you are considering a future with her.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> I can’t help think how different this would be if the genders were reversed and it was the guy wanting another kid and the 40 year wife did not.


I can't see that it would be much different.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Beach123 said:


> I’d say the weekend away may be useful. You can tell her you need time away to think about things. Then don’t say anything further. She can be left wondering if you are considering a future with her.


No, this will damage his marriage.

@CoffeeandTV

Irrespective of what other people will tell you (and your wife), remember what I told you in this post.

Your intent should be to figure out how to repair your marriage and move forward with your wife. 

No need to seek apology from her in this matter. You have a hand in creating your "conflict situation" with her, but people are berating her. She is an adult and have needs that YOU are supposed to meet [as her husband]. Others are irrelevant.

Be sensible, supportive, and empathetic towards your wife. You owe this much to her at minimum.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Any relationship needs balance. Marriage shouldn’t be this hard.
She’s your princess that punishes you for not getting her way for three months?
Apparently you aren’t her Prince. Maybe you should wake up to that fact,


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> No, this will damage his marriage.
> 
> @CoffeeandTV
> 
> ...


Who’s damaging the marriage?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Young at Heart said:


> All true, he can't change her, but her weaponizing sex by intentionally withholding it, will destroy a marriage very quickly. It is a horrific thing to do, in my book, because I had a wife who told me she would never have sex with me again, it was a statement that if this doesn't get fixed, it is divorce.
> 
> *I am sure that he is part of the problem*, but the biggest thing that needs to get immediately fixed if the marriage is to survive is the use of sex as a weapon.


He doesn’t want a child in his 40’s. I see that as common sense.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Marc878 said:


> Who’s damaging the marriage?


Both are partly responsible in this case. I do not think the wife owes an apology to OP. He is not innocent in this matter.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Marc878 said:


> He doesn’t want a child in his 40’s. I see that as common sense.


This is subjective.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Both are partly responsible in this case.


Because he doesn’t want a child at 40😂😂😂😂😂😂hilarious!


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> This is subjective.


Not if you have any common sense it isn’t.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Marc878 said:


> Not if you have any common sense it isn’t.


Couples have had kids in their 40s around the world. This is non-issue in a marriage unless it is made into one by one of the partners.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Couples have had kids in their 40s. Not an issue.


It sure is if one doesn’t want it for a very good reason. They’d be raising the child well into their 50’s and it’s a fact the chance of health issues dramatically increase for the mother and child at that age.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Both are partly responsible in this case. I do not think the wife owes an apology to OP. He is not innocent in this matter.
> 
> Be sensible, supportive, and empathetic towards your wife. You owe this much to her at minimum


He HAS been patient and empathetic to her this whole time - so why are you saying that? 

It hasn’t helped! So you start trying something else. There is NOTHING wrong with taking time for himself in a situation like this. It also gives her some time to think and reflect about how this situation could be worked out.

A few days away is not damaging to a marriage, come on. They are adults who should be capable of solving problems - but not while both feel emotional about their perspective sides.

Time away to clear the mind is healthy at this juncture.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Both are partly responsible in this case. I do not think the wife owes an apology to OP. He is not innocent in this matter.


Correction: the OP is 42 now which means he’d be over 60 before the child turned 18.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

It's an impossible situation: someone is going to get hurt.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Marc878 said:


> It sure is if one doesn’t want it for a very good reason. They’d be raising the child well into their 50’s and it’s a fact the chance of health issues dramatically increase for the mother and child at that age.


It depends upon one's lifestyle. If a parent works out and is physically fit and strong, child rearing will not be an issue for said person.

The wife [in question] works out and is physically fit. OP is also physically fit. Health is not the basis of argument between this particular couple.

Whether they have another kid (or not), is not my point of contention. It is about attitudes and arguments in this thread. The wife was made out to be the villian which was completely unnecessary.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Beach123 said:


> He HAS been patient and empathetic to her this whole time - so why are you saying that?
> 
> It hasn’t helped! So you start trying something else. There is NOTHING wrong with taking time for himself in a situation like this. It also gives her some time to think and reflect about how this situation could be worked out.
> 
> ...


There is nothing to work out here. She wants a baby and he doesn’t. There isn’t much in the way of compromise on that. Unless you get her a dog😂


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> It depends upon one's lifestyle. If a parent works out and is physically fit and strong, child rearing will not be an issue for said person.
> 
> The wife [in question] works out and is physically fit. OP is also physically fit. Health is not the basis of argument between this particular couple.
> 
> Whether they have another kid (or not), is not my point of contention. It is about attitudes and arguments in this thread. The wife was made out to be the villian which was completely unnecessary.


Do the math. He doesn’t want to be raising a kid in his 60’s.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

It smells to me like she’s an entitled princess. She doesn’t get her way so she essentially puts her marriage on hold until she does.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

CoffeeandTV said:


> It turns out she told her mom and her mom told her she was crazy and should have brought this up 10 years ago. She says that’s what’s put her in this mood. She probably turned to her mom hoping that she’d find somebody that’d agree with her and didn’t expect the reaction she got. She doesn’t want to talk right now but I will make her talk about it soon enough. I still feel like we need to hash it out and I can’t accept a day to night change in her attitude because I know she most definitely isn’t over it and won’t be for a long time, if ever.
> 
> You can call me a simp or whatever you want to say, but I actually feel pretty bad for her right now. I wish we wanted to same thing and that I could easily just give it to her with no second thoughts. I like to take care of her and to provide for her but I just can’t bring myself to give her what she thinks she wants or needs right now.
> 
> Meanwhile I feel like I’m about to explode without any sex and as guilty as I feel knowing she is feels so down right now I’m going to have to go watch some porn so that I can finally relax. I don’t even think she’s holding onto the no sex thing anymore after today but it doesn’t feel right to initiate sex when she’s crying her eyes out and surrounded by a mountain of tissues on the bed.


I feel sad for your wife too. She sounds emotionally devastated. She was already in a battle with her life partner and now her mother turns against her! Thank God my mom is more supportive than that. Even if my mom disagreed with me, she'd tell me in a gentle way. It sounds like her mother didn't. 

Your poor wife feels abandoned/ turned against by the people she loves most. She needs you now more than ever. Please don't go away for a weekend. It might give you a break, but it wouldn't be good for her or for your marriage. People do crazy things when they feel they've lost something precious.

You still need to have that heart-to-heart with her. She says she doesn't want to anymore because she's given up. But just because she's given up on ever attaining her dreams, doesn't mean her heart has changed. And like you said, you don't want her living with resentment years and years from now. You both still need to come to a mutual decision.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Melinda82 said:


> I feel sad for your wife too. She sounds emotionally devastated. She was already in a battle with her life partner and now her mother turns against her! Thank God my mom is more supportive than that. Even if my mom disagreed with me, she'd tell me in a gentle way. It sounds like her mother didn't.
> 
> Your poor wife feels abandoned/ turned against by the people she loves most. She needs you now more than ever. Please don't go away for a weekend. It might give you a break, but it wouldn't be good for her or for your marriage. People do crazy things when they feel they've lost something precious.
> 
> You still need to have that heart-to-heart with her. She says she doesn't want to anymore because she's given up. But just because she's given up on ever attaining her dreams, doesn't mean her heart has changed. And like you said, you don't want her living with resentment years and years from now. You both still need to come to a mutual decision.


So poor muffin is holding her husband hostage because he doesn’t want to be raising a child into his 60’s and I guess that’s not bad for their marriage? 
Please tell us how they can come to a mutual decision?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’ve told her my reasons for not wanting another baby now. I feel that I’ve said them in a rational way. We’ve not had a real heart to heart about it. I admit I’ve probably been pretty dismissive and she doesn’t want to listen to my reasons either. Now I realize even if neither of us is willing to budge, we have to really talk about it. Tried to last night and she was sick and went to bed as soon as she got home from work. Tonight, well, she’s refusing and now she’s in the bedroom sobbing so I don’t think a rational conversations happening tonight either. One of the much earlier comments here said something about sometimes you just need to have a really long drawn out pointless conversation to at least say you did. I don’t think it’ll be completely pointless but we need to just air everything out because what’s happening now cannot continue.
> 
> I personally think this phase will likely pass eventually. I am hoping we can just get through it and eventually it’ll go away. I know that sounds dismissive to call it a phase but that’s how I see it and she has yet to convince me otherwise. Maybe if she wasn’t behaving like a bratty teenager over it I wouldn’t still be calling it a phase. I do take her desire more seriously than I did 3 months ago. I believe that _she_ believes this is truly what she wants and maybe it is and this won’t just pass, but to me the timing of a grandchild and being 40, this sudden overwhelming need for a baby out of nowhere, it just doesn’t have me completely convinced. I believe she is upset, whether over a missed chance to have a kid years ago, her age/feeling old, I don’t know, but it’s more than just wanting a baby.


Explaining your reasons is nowhere near the same thing as a heart to heart where HER feelings and struggles are at least acknowledged. One is all about you and the other involves both of you.

Acknowledging her feelings doesn't mean giving in. It means letting her know you understand where she's coming from. It's the difference between you facing this together or not.

Of course she's not over it. That is a process that she'll have to work through. The question is whether her husband will be her support or whether he'll ignore it and hope it goes away and maybe have sex with her.

Option 1 is far better far he marriage.

Do not ask her to talk. Go to her and start the conversation.

You; I know this is difficult for you.
Her: I'm fine.
You: no you're not and I understand why you feel that way. This is a lot to process.

Let it flow from there. You're tiptoing around it hoping it goes away. Don't let her struggle with this alone. THAT is what causes resentment....ask how I know.

You can help her without changing your mind.


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## DaringGreatly (7 mo ago)

Marc878 said:


> So poor muffin is holding her husband hostage because he doesn’t want to be raising a child into his 60’s and I guess that’s not bad for their marriage?
> Please tell us how they can come to a mutual decision?


She isn't holding him hostage. He is an adult and perfectly capable of taking care of his own sexual needs. 
She is very likely to be the loser in this situation and until she works through the loss she is feeling is unlikely to be in the mood for enthusiastic sex.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Just give her the baby and then move out...


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

DaringGreatly said:


> She isn't holding him hostage. He is an adult and perfectly capable of taking care of his own sexual needs.
> She is very likely to be the loser in this situation and until she works through the loss she is feeling is unlikely to be in the mood for enthusiastic sex.


Denying sex for 3 months as punishment for not getting her way is what? 
Sounds like entitled princess syndrome to me.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Marc878 said:


> Denying sex for 3 months as punishment for not getting her way is what?
> Sounds like entitled princess syndrome to me.


Or maybe it's someone who's struggling and not handling it well.

25 years of good marriage and she can't be allowed a few months?

He can't survive a few months without porn sex? Struggling with the thought of no more children makes her an entitled princess?


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Or maybe it's someone who's struggling and not handling it well.
> 
> 25 years of good marriage and she can't be allowed a few months?
> 
> He can't survive a few months without porn sex? Struggling with the thought of no more children makes her an entitled princess?


He wants to finally have a kid free home for a while that he's worked hard to get to enjoy that for a bit.
He sacrificed early in life to enjoy some M just he and W, let him have it. He's earned it.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> Or maybe it's someone who's struggling and not handling it well.
> 
> 25 years of good marriage and she can't be allowed a few months?
> 
> He can't survive a few months without porn sex?


She’s struggling. I guess he doesn’t count? Who says it’s porn sex?
OP doesn’t want to be raising a kid into his 60’s yet it’s all about his wife’s feelings?
Maybe she needs professional help.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Once the baby gets here I imagine it’ll go one of two ways. She’ll either realize that having a grandchild satisfies all of her urges as far as having a baby/small child in her life again and she’ll realize that she doesn’t need another baby of her own or it’ll fuel the desire for a baby of her own even more and she’ll double down.
> 
> So I don’t know, if I sit around and wait it out I might get to have non-reproductive sex again my Christmas. Lucky me! I’m ashamed to admit that her childish behavior has at time brought out the same sort of thoughts in me. I’ve thought that if/when she decides she’ll have sex with me again I might just refuse her for a good long while to see how she feels. I’ve also told her that her body won’t bounce back like it did when she was a teenager. 3 months after having a baby back then and you’d never know she had ever been pregnant. That won’t be the case at 40. I felt bad after I said it and I realized as soon as it came out of my mouth that she just had more ammunition to try to make me feel bad and accuse me of refusing a baby because of the affect it’ll have on her appearance. That’s the least of my worries. If I actually wanted a baby right now I wouldn’t care about the possible affects on her appearance. Although again, what I said is true. She’s done so much work on herself the past several years, she’s really in shape and looks fantastic and it’ll take a lot of work after having a baby at this age to get back to where she is now. Then I’ll have to hear her complain about that.


So another 5 months till grandchild is born. She should be focusing on making her grandchild priority number one and not focusing on another baby. She is also going the wrong way about wanting another baby with you. Banning sex and treating you like poop is not good and will push you away, not closer. Fingers crossed her focus goes on grandchild and all other thoughts fade away in time. Don't let her guilt you.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

CountryMike said:


> He wants to finally have a kid free home for a while that he's worked hard to get to enjoy that for a bit.
> He sacrificed early in life to enjoy some M just he and W, let him have it. He's earned it.


Never said he didn't nor did I say he should give in. I said his wife is struggling and that as her husband it's quite possible to help her through this while not changing his mind.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

She doesn’t owe you an apology. She’s going through an emotional struggle. You got caught in the prop wash. Many of those tears are probably for the way she’s treated you. Get over it. She’ll be back sooner if you’re a soft place for her to land.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Marc878 said:


> She’s struggling. I guess he doesn’t count? Who says it’s porn sex?
> OP doesn’t want to be raising a kid into his 60’s yet it’s all about his wife’s feelings?
> Maybe she needs professional help.


It seems I need to keep repeating this.

I never said he should give in.....I completely get why he doesn't want to start over. The fact is that this is enormously difficult for her to come to terms with and as her husband he's in a position to help her through it. A few months of crappy sex isn't going to kill him.

Right now he's letting his wife struggles with this alone and hoping it goes away. They will come out of this in a much better place if he helps her through it. Facing the idea of no more children is difficult for some people.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Sfort said:


> She doesn’t owe you an apology. She’s going through an emotional struggle. You got caught in the prop wash. Many of those tears are probably for the way she’s treated you. Get over it. She’ll be back sooner if you’re a soft place for her to land.


Absolutely.

Thr fact that he thinks he's owed one tells me he's a bit lacking in empathy.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Sfort said:


> She doesn’t owe you an apology. She’s going through an emotional struggle. You got caught in the prop wash. Many of those tears are probably for the way she’s treated you. Get over it. She’ll be back sooner if you’re a soft place for her to land.


I don't think she will... I have seen a few couples splitting up over this kind of stuff.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> I don't think she will... I have seen a few couples splitting up over this kind of stuff.


But he suggested she could have kids with someone else and she balked at that.

She doesn't want to leave him.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> It seems I need to keep repeating this.
> 
> I never said he should give in.....I completely get why he doesn't want to start over. The fact is that this is enormously difficult for her to come to terms with and that as her husband he's in a position to help her through it. A few months of crappy sex isn't going to kill him.
> 
> Right now he's letting his wife struggles with this alone and hoping it goes away. They will come out of this in a much better place if he helps her through it. Facing the idea of no more children is difficult for some people.


I’d be more concerned about her behavior around this. She’s been using punishment to try and get her way. 
It’s not crappy sex its no sex. 3 months worth.
You mentioned porn sex too. Am I missing something?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> But he suggested she could have kids with someone else and she balked at that.
> 
> She doesn't want to leave him.


Someone is going to get broken over this. I bet the husband will agree to it, eventually.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Marc878 said:


> I’d be more concerned about her behavior around this. She’s been using punishment to try and get her way.
> It’s not crappy sex its no sex. 3 months worth.
> You mentioned porn sex too. Am I missing something?


Not what he said in later posts. He said they have had sex but he's not even into it because the baby thing is hanging over his head. 

Understandable and all the more reason he should help her get through this.

Sure she's handled it poorly. She's struggling.....nobody's perfect.

Porn sex might not be the right description. I used it to mean enthusiastic sex free of the emotional struggle she's having as they actually are having sex.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> Someone is going to get broken over this. I bet the husband will agree to it, eventually.


Not necessarily. I know a few women with 1 child who wanted more but hubby didn't.

They got through it with support. She might too and his emotional support could help a lot. This is a phase many women go through to varying degrees. She's just getting crazier then many.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> Not what he said in later posts. He said they have had sex but he's not even into it because the baby thing is hanging over his head.
> 
> Understandable and all the more reason he should help her get through this.
> 
> ...


He’s struggling too or he wouldn’t be here. It’s not all about her. 
I would expect a woman who is 40 years old to be more mature instead of the way she’s handled this. 
I guess not.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Not necessarily. I know a few women with 1 child who wanted more but hubby didn't.
> 
> They got through it with support. She might too and his emotional support could help a lot. This is a phase many women go through to varying degrees. She's just getting crazier then many.


She had a child when she was 16, if I'm not mistaken. It's not really like she had a child 3 years ago and the husband now says no to another... this is her last chance to have a baby when she can actually enjoy it. A totally life-changing experience.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I don’t want to give in and I’m not ready to give in. I hope that she eventually realizes this is ridiculous.
> 
> If I do agree to have another baby it won’t be because she withheld sex. I think that’s childish and selfish but I’m not desperate enough for sex to agree to have a baby with her because of it. If I agree to it, it’ll be because I love her and value what we have and everything we’ve worked for together and would rather give her a baby and stay married to her than for us to get divorced over this. If she absolutely has to have a baby I could say that’s fine and decide that I want no part in it and leave her. I could go enjoy my life as a single guy or find another woman who isn’t looking to start all over with a newborn in middle age. Most women in their 30s or 40s will probably have baggage, maybe an ex-husband, most likely a kid or two (and not fully grown like my son but likely still at home). That would make me more miserable than having a new baby with my wife whom I love and have spent over 2 decades building a life with. I would never agree to it under the current circumstances but if she can start acting like an adult and we have some ongoing serious discussions and enough time passes where I realize this desire of hers is never going away then at that point I will only have a few options and that’ll be a personal decision based on what I can live with. I really never saw this as a situation where it’d come down to us having another baby or getting a divorce, and I still don’t see it that way right now, but if it comes down to those 2 options eventually I know which way I’ll probably go. You’re free to think that’s pathetic.


Then, you should have said so from the beginning in your OP, and the few subsequent posts you made. This is a far cry from what was understood at the beginnings. 

You are now explaining a different stance from your OP. If you don't mind having to get her pregnant in the end in order to appease her then that's your prerogative, and no one can fault you for that, but that's contrary to how you came out at first.

And just FYI. I'm a 69 years old man (almost 70). I have two daughters, the oldest is 25 (26 soon), so if you do the math I was 44 when she was born. It's my second marriage, and luckily, no kids with my first wife. I saw no problems at all raising my two daughters at all at this age, but I'm a dude that physically and genetically has the appearance and the stamina of a much younger man without a single physical or health problem...yet, hence my wife being younger than me, but both now looking about the same for our age. So, as you can see, I do understand what's to have children past 40 and all of their implications. If you look at your and your families' genetics, specially at the oldest, and their longevity, then you can gauge what's your outcome more or less (no guarantees in this life, of course). 

Obviously, I do understand the concerns for most people about having kids at a time when we all are thinking of "easing on main Street". Women that already had kids prior to 40 run less risks in pregnancy than those that would be having their first pregnancy at the age of 40, again, but of course, nothing is guaranteed.


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## AlwaysImproving (5 mo ago)

Withholding sex for 3 months, she absolutely owes an apology and more than that. Has nothing to do with empathy on his part.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Marc878 said:


> He’s struggling too or he wouldn’t be here. It’s not all about her.
> I would expect a woman who is 40 years old to be more mature instead of the way she’s handled this.
> I guess not.


No, he's not struggling in the sense that he's not struggling with no more kids. He's struggling because she's not ok with it and she's expected to either be ok with it or not trouble him. If she shut up and put out he'd be fine. That's probably a harsh way to put it but let's call a spade a spade.

Amd if you can't understand why a 40 year old woman would struggle with no more kids you need to spend more time around 40-45 year old women. It's a common struggle.

I'm 48 but I admit that in my early 40's I thought about how it might have been nice to have more kids. The difference was that my hb at the time wasn't my kids father and he was a douchebag. If I'd been married to my kids father and loved him I would've felt more strongly about it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

AlwaysImproving said:


> Withholding sex for 3 months, she absolutely owes an apology and more than that. Has nothing to do with empathy on his part.


Read it again. She's not withholding....they've had some sex. It's just had the baby thing hanging over it.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I can’t win. Yeah, going away by myself for a long weekend is sounding pretty nice right about now.


I am going to disagree with this, though realize you have been advised to "just go off by yourself". Over wife and my many years together, what has always worked best for us, no matter how difficult, was to STAY ENGAGED. If we were having a heated argument, the LAST either of us ever did was to leave the field. Neither of us ever just left the house when we had a crisis. Usually one of us would shut up and let the other vent, state their case, whatever. If you leave for a weekend, that solves NOTHING. And lets her stew alone for several days. You might come back to an empty house. 

I think the long weekend would be better spent taking the wife with you somewhere relaxing and having some long conversations about what has been going on between you. As painful and difficult as it is, you are going to have to be the adult in the room. She is processing a MLC and not dealing with it very well. She needs as much help as you can give her. Hang in there! You are tough, as your life proves.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> No, he's not struggling in the sense that he's not struggling with no more kids. He's struggling because she's not ok with it and she's expected to either be ok with it or not trouble him. If she shut up and put put he'd be fine. That's probably a harsh way to put it but let's call a spade a spade.
> 
> Amd if you can't understand why a 40 year old woman would struggle with no more kids you need to spend more time around 40-45 year old women. It's a common struggle.
> 
> I'm 48 but I admit that in my early 40's I thought about how it might have been nice to have more kids. The difference was that my hb at the time wasn't my kids father and he was a douchebag. If I'd been married to my kids father and loved him I would've felt more strongly about it.


You have your opinion. I have mine. We’ll agree to disagree.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> She had a child when she was 16, if I'm not mistaken. It's not really like she had a child 3 years ago and the husband now says no to another... this is her last chance to have a baby when she can actually enjoy it. A totally life-changing experience.


For sure it would be life changing


But this is one of those things where you think you have all the time in the world, then you realize you don't. It can take some coming to terns with.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> It depends upon one's lifestyle. If a parent works out and is physically fit and strong, child rearing will not be an issue for said person.
> 
> The wife [in question] works out and is physically fit. OP is also physically fit. Health is not the basis of argument between this particular couple.
> 
> Whether they have another kid (or not), is not my point of contention. It is about attitudes and arguments in this thread. The wife was made out to be the villian which was completely unnecessary.


It's not just about physical health. It is about financial health and lifestyle. If they start trying now, he will be funding a chd until retirement age (late 60s).

Yes it is possible. But asking the OP to spend almost his entire productive life raising children is unreasonable. He wants to enjoy adult life, not have to plan a night out or vacation around the availability of child care. He wants to live well in his senior years, not working and sweating tuition costs until his late 60s or beyond.

I'm not sure what you don't get about that aspect of life. I just turned 50 and finally hit that stride where I can see a path to doing my thing, working another dozen years, and retiring well. If I had a first grader still, paying for daycare and other needs and wants, perhaps not being able to advance my career, my plans would be shot and I'd be working until 70 to live okay afterwards 

I understand my situation (single parent who shoulders the full load) is different than the OP. But your "you could just make it happen and figure it out as you go" is overly simplistic and ignores reality.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Or maybe it's someone who's struggling and not handling it well.
> 
> 25 years of good marriage and she can't be allowed a few months?
> 
> He can't survive a few months without porn sex? Struggling with the thought of no more children makes her an entitled princess?


All good points. But it's three months so far and she's not looking like anything will change soon.

How long is too long? 6 months or a year? I personally feel that resentment from him will soon become an issue (if not one already) in which case it's gone on too long already.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DTO said:


> she's not looking like anything will change soon


Yes, she is. She had a big talk with her mother and is in the throes of the subsequent emotional breakdown.

No one is excusing her behavior. He is owed an apology and will likely get it without demanding it. Demanding a mea culpa for neglecting his penis when she is in the middle of a complete emotional breakdown shows a startling lack of empathy. If he's not going to help her, at least he can let her go through it without standing over her insisting she kiss the ring, as it were.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

DTO said:


> All good points. But it's three months so far and she's not looking like anything will change soon.
> 
> How long is too long? 6 months or a year? I personally feel that resentment from him will soon become an issue (if not one already) in which case it's gone on too long already.


All the more reason to stop the power struggle and stop hoping she'll get over it. Have a heart to heart where it's not just him saying no....acknowledge her struggle.

Eventually this will pass and they'll either come out of it pissed off at each other or lean on each other.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If it hadn't lasted three punitive months, I'd have thought it was a manic phase.


I thought the same thing!!!! 🤯


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yes, she is. She had a big talk with her mother and is in the throes of the subsequent emotional breakdown.
> 
> No one is excusing her behavior. He is owed an apology and will likely get it without demanding it. Demanding a mea culpa for neglecting his penis when she is in the middle of a complete emotional breakdown shows a startling lack of empathy. If he's not going to help her, at least he can let her go through it without standing over her insisting she kiss the ring, as it were.


Absolutely. The emphasis on sex and not on her struggle is astounding to me.

She's supposed to keep excitedly putting out and keep her struggle to herself so he doesn't feel too bad. I can't see how that's helpful.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> Would I ever do it again? OH HELL TO THE NO!!!!!!


Lol!!! I understand! 

I don't care if couples have kids in their 40's, but it's different when both spouses want a baby. We have friends who had children in their 40's and they are happy and exhausted. 

I love babies and my body wants another one, but I know I'd be a mess with a baby, so no more for me. 

I hope OP can reach an agreement and move on without any resentments.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Absolutely. The emphasis on sex and not on her struggle is astounding to me.
> 
> She's supposed to keep excitedly putting out and keep her struggle to herself so he doesn't feel too bad. I can't see how that's helpful.


Depends if you see your wife as a person or a masturbatory aid. 🙄

I hope she talks to her mom again today. I went through something like this as I’ve aged (still am). It’s very lonely, like soul crushingly lonely. I hope she has someone to talk to. I still think the OP should go away so she can have a little peace while she figures this out.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> Absolutely. The emphasis on sex and not on her struggle is astounding to me.
> 
> She's supposed to keep excitedly putting out and keep her struggle to herself so he doesn't feel too bad. I can't see how that's helpful.


And for many women our abily to reproduce is a large part of our identity. She’s coming to terms with a new identity. It would be similar to a man never being able to have a hard on again. They usually struggle with that. But we aren’t supposed to because reasons.

OP. Going away alone is a huge abandonment unless you normally do that and already had it scheduled.

That would mean in one week you suggested she could have a kid with someone else (which implies divorce), have been dismissive of her feelings and then when she’s a wreck you’d be leaving her to deal with it herself because you couldn’t be bothered.

There is no doubt many people would handle it like that. But me big daddy and rus are all 20+ no divorces. I see at least me and rus don’t think it’s a good idea.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Or maybe it's someone who's struggling and not handling it well.
> 
> 25 years of good marriage and she can't be allowed a few months?
> 
> He can't survive a few months without porn sex? Struggling with the thought of no more children makes her an entitled princess?


Sexually enticing him then SMIRKING at him and saying, "nope" because he's not suddenly into having another child in his 40s reveals an incredibly nasty side to her personality.

People go through very disappointing life situations all of the time and don't do that kind of thing.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

What’s all this talk about porn star sex, expecting her to keep putting out and giving my penis attention, and me lacking in empathy?

I thought I was being as nice as I could be about it. I haven’t been mean. I’ve tried to rationally talk about it. I can agree that I was still being dismissive with many of my comment to her, I was not being open to even listening to her reasoning, and that completely rational conversation is probably not even what she actually wants - I know her and sometimes she needs to have a no holds barred emotional discussion and I’ve not given that to her yet.

I don’t want an apology for the lack of sex. I just want an apology for the childish, selfish way she’s behaved. There’s a big difference, in my mind, between saying something like “I’m really struggling right now and am not in the mood for sex and might now be for a little while.” And stating like a little school girl playing tag on the play ground “I’m not having sex with you to punish you for not giving me a baby!” Then sticking her tongue out at me and running away, basically. She does things to deliberately tease me and lead me on and then “nope!”Openly masturbating in bed and telling me that I could be having sex with her but since I won’t do what she wants she’ll have to just help herself.

I get it now that this is a serious issue for her, but it was hard to have a ton of empathy when she was acting like that. I have been the one trying to talk about it in a rational way.

Last night I came home, I kissed her, tried to hold her, tried to comfort her and she shut me out. I get that she was particularly upset after what her mom said and I’m positive that my comment about finding another guy to have a baby with the night prior probably didn’t help.

I’ve defended her in this thread multiple times and I think I’ve indicated that I now understand where a lot of this is coming from. I’m trying to empathize. I’m not a woman, I know that. I don’t think she’s crazy or wrong to feel the way she feels. I’m not even calling her “mean.”


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Livvie said:


> This.
> 
> I feel most badly for the son. Instead of having a mother excited that her child is going to have his first baby, and excited about it all, he has a mother caught up in withholding sex from his father because suddenly she has gone off the rails about having a baby of her own.


Another consideration here - their son and this new baby will have basically NO relationship with each other. They are WAY too far apart in age -- they will, in effect, both be only children.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> What’s all this talk about porn star sex, expecting her to keep putting out and giving my penis attention, and me lacking in empathy?


I for one am NOT referring to you as lacking empathy, I'm talking about the posters on here who are telling you to demand she prostrate herself to you when she's still going through a huge emotional upheaval. IMO, you have been very patient and are sympathetic to her. I doubt any of that was directed at you, I know I certainly wasn't directing it at you, I was responding to other posts.

You haven't called her "mean," but I will. She has not handled this well at all. I think we can sympathize with her struggle without defending her nasty behavior.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> And for many women our abily to reproduce is a large part of our identity. She’s coming to terms with a new identity. It would be similar to a man never being able to have a hard on again. They usually struggle with that. But we aren’t supposed to because reasons.
> 
> OP. Going away alone is a huge abandonment unless you normally do that and already had it scheduled.
> 
> ...


I’m not planning to leave for a few days. It sounds nice but I’m not doing it. I probably wouldn’t enjoy myself, picturing her at home and crying all alone with her mountain of tissues.

I will probably let her know that I’m here for her if she wants to talk, but not try to force any conversations against her will until the weekend. At that point if she is still saying she’s over it and doesn’t want to talk about it (I don’t think either are true or will be in a few days time), do I force her to talk to me by this weekend if she refuses up until then? I’m not trying to make her feel worse or abandoned or any of those things.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

IMHO, which is worth what you're paying for it, I think you should give her some time to grieve, and at the end of the weekend tell her that you guys need to talk this out when she's ready. Tell her you strongly suspect this is about more than just having a baby and you're worried about her, and you want her to know she can rely on you and that she isn't alone. 

If it were me and you said something like, "I love you, you're beautiful and sexy and funny and sweet and all the things I want, and I am not going anywhere," it would be SUPER comforting to hear. YMMV


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Celebrated the 25th anniversary of our first date in April and I know it was right around this time in August 1997 that she found out she was pregnant. She remembers the exact date. I only remember date of conception, but it was the 4th of July so I have a cheat there.
> 
> I’m not really sure where all of that time between now and then went, kind of crazy. I guess she spends a lot more time thinking about those things which is probably why she’s having the problems she’s dealing with now. She gets kind of sad over every big anniversary, every big birthday. She usually cries on our son’s birthday each year too.
> 
> I never would have imagined being with the same girl since I was 17 but I’ve been completed dedicated to her the entire time. I’m not going to lose her over this. I just hope we can get through this without a lifetime of resentment moving forward.


Just an FYI. I greatly admire and envy you for your long, happy marriage, and wish you many more happy years. You come across as a very compassionate, unselfish, loving husband— you have just found yourself in a situation where there’s no options to keep from hurting your wife. I think if you keep showing your wife that you feel her pain even though you don’t want another baby now, she will eventually be ok. She may always be sad about it, but will accept it. I hope so anyway.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Both are partly responsible in this case. I do not think the wife owes an apology to OP. He is not innocent in this matter.


Not that it matters, but I hugely disagree with you about him being the cause of the problem, but I think you are right on in showing his empathy for her and being a hardass at this point might damage the marriage. She’s said she’s ok with it abd her mom has busted the bubble. I think she’s on the brink of waking up.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> Then, you should have said so from the beginning in your OP, and the few subsequent posts you made. This is a far cry from what was understood at the beginnings.
> 
> You are now explaining a different stance from your OP. If you don't mind having to get her pregnant in the end in order to appease her then that's your prerogative, and no one can fault you for that, but that's contrary to how you came out at first.
> 
> ...


Oh but I do mind getting her pregnant now and having another child at what will be at least 43 years old, if not older if it were to take longer to conceive. I really do mind. If it was something I was easily willing to do I’d have done it already to avoid this whole mess.

It’s just that if it absolutely comes down to it, if she cannot get over or live with not having another child, then eventually I would choose to do that rather than have her live in resentment for the rest of our lives, hating me, or to have her leave me over it. She’s not on the verge of leaving me but hypothetically it could happen if she decided she couldn’t live without a kid and I wouldn’t give one to her.

Any resentment I’d have over it, I’d find a way to eventually get over. I’d rather find a way to be happy with the situation myself than have her hate and resent me forever because of my refusal. I don’t think we are quite at this crossroads yet. I don’t think giving in to her desire for a baby is my only option at the moment.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

What is interesting about this latest update is how she is now “over it” because her mother told her basically, that’s it’s a bad idea, but when you were sharing your feelings on it, trying to rationally explain why you didn’t wish to have a baby, your input wasn’t good enough.

No comment really, just found that interesting.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It depends on how strongly she feels about it as to whether giving in is your only option. Some women might kinda/sorta get over it eventually but some women for sure will not. You know her best — we don’t. But considering how childishly she’s behaved with teasing, etc., I’d say it’s likely you’ll give in because her resentment will continue otherwise.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> do I force her to talk to me by this weekend if she refuses up until then? I’m not trying to make her feel worse or abandoned or any of those things.


How about going to her and talking to her. If she doesn’t respond, so be it. Would she go for a long walk with you? A country drive? Somehow the two of you need to rebuild the bond. You are both hurting. And you are the only one with wits about you. So you are elected to do the heavy lifting.

I always found that just letting things stew never improved the outcome. Use the time off to good effect. If you don’t, another work week begins with no progress healing the marriage.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

I think people here are correct in one thing. I’ve not handled it in the best way that I could from the start. I should have taken her more seriously from the start and insisted on a real conversation about it 3 months ago. I have been unintentionally dismissive of her feelings and stubborn about my own thoughts on the matter. I can see now how some of my comments and actions may have been interpreted by her and have only fueled the fire. Thank you to those who have given me a woman’s perspective on the issue. I’ll try to be more cognizant of that moving forward. Yes, I did view this as a silly phase. I probably even told her it was a silly phase. I feel bad because to her, whether it’s actually a phase or not, it was not silly at all.

I also realize that I have not made the right moves as far as her sex withholding. Oh I’ve made a lot of bad moves there. I thought by showing her “that’s fine, I don’t care, I don’t need you” she’d give up with the sex strike because she wasn’t getting the reaction she wanted out of me. No, in her mind I handed control over to her and she felt like she was winning. I also probably made her feel even worse because hey, I’m fine not having sex with you so I must not really love or desire you that much. That’s a message she was probably hearing from my “I’m not really affected” act. That’s all it was, an act. In reality I get a boner practically every time I see her naked and I spent many many frustrated days (still am) trying to kill all the thoughts of the variety of sexual things I’d like to be doing to her at any given moment. I wonder what damage I’ve done to her there by pretending like I really didn’t care if she didn’t want to sleep with me all but 5 times in 3 months. I’m not completely sure how to fix that one now either.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

pastasauce79 said:


> I thought the same thing!!!! 🤯


That's really what it sounded like. I guess it is possible to have one for 3 months but it's not that common. But if it was a manic phase then what is the following is going to be a bad depression.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m not completely sure how to fix that one


How about telling her what you wrote in this post?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> What’s all this talk about porn star sex, expecting her to keep putting out and giving my penis attention, and me lacking in empathy?
> 
> I thought I was being as nice as I could be about it. I haven’t been mean. I’ve tried to rationally talk about it. I can agree that I was still being dismissive with many of my comment to her, I was not being open to even listening to her reasoning, and that completely rational conversation is probably not even what she actually wants - I know her and sometimes she needs to have a no holds barred emotional discussion and I’ve not given that to her yet.
> 
> ...


I think you've been beyond patient with her petulant and spiteful behavior.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

DaringGreatly said:


> He is an adult and perfectly capable of taking care of his own sexual needs.


You're absolutely right, in the face of his wife withholding sex from him. He should go out and have sex with another woman or women to take care of his own sexual needs. Or just bring one home with him, if he isn't keen on going out to take care of himself.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Livvie said:


> People go through very disappointing life situations all of the time and don't do that kind of thing.


Some do, some don't. I've reacted to things in my life where I wish I could have reacted differently. Life can be complicated for some of us.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

*Deidre* said:


> What is interesting about this latest update is how she is now “over it” because her mother told her basically, that’s it’s a bad idea, but when you were sharing your feelings on it, trying to rationally explain why you didn’t wish to have a baby, your input wasn’t good enough.


You don't see the value of getting a somewhat-independent opinion of a third party you trust?


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> The thing is she may be struggling emotionally but she's doing it in the most self-indulgent destructive way possible that is hard to sympathize with. She's like a kid that wants a piece of candy and won't stop screaming until you give them one.





DownByTheRiver said:


> The thing is she may be struggling emotionally but she's doing it in the most self-indulgent destructive way possible that is hard to sympathize with. She's like a kid that wants a piece of candy and won't stop screaming until you give them one.


EXACTLY!!

A Petulant child.

And PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE as well with her "I'm so over it" comment.


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## AlwaysImproving (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think you've been beyond patient with her petulant and spiteful behavior.


This is so right. "Feelings" does not give women a get out of accountability free card. 

I don't think the correct response to "I just got treat like crap for the past few months" is to shift the narrative to her feelings or empathy at the expense of everything else.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sfort said:


> You don't see the value of getting a somewhat-independent opinion of a third party you trust?


She changed her mind when her mom weighed in but was going to keep making her husband feel like a jerk over having the same opinion.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> What is interesting about this latest update is how she is now “over it” because her mother told her basically, that’s it’s a bad idea, but when you were sharing your feelings on it, trying to rationally explain why you didn’t wish to have a baby, your input wasn’t good enough.
> 
> No comment really, just found that interesting.


Eh, there are some issues as far as the dynamics between her and her parents that go back a very long time. I think she’s struggled with trying to not be a disappointment to them since the moment she told them she was pregnant at 16.

In this instance, who knows how the conversation actually went. Did her mom really call her crazy or is that just my wife’s interpretation of whatever her mom actually said? I was pretty surprised by her mom’s supposed reaction, so I’m assuming she was as well. I think maybe it shocked her because she thought her mom would be on her side and would want another grandchild. My wife said “first I’m too young, now I’m too old. I can’t get my timing right.” So whatever her mom said probably made her feel like her silly 16 year old self again, but not in a good warm fuzzy way. That is a trigger for her when it comes to her mom especially, even though overall they generally have a close relationship.

Anyway, I won’t take it too personally. I figure she just needed to hear it from somebody who wasn’t me.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

*Deidre* said:


> She changed her mind when her mom weighed in but was going to keep making her husband feel like a jerk over having the same opinion.


No argument there, but if third-party opinions are not useful, why do people talk with priests, preachers, rabbis, counselors, life coaches, psychiatrists, psychologists, and the like? When two people are emotionally connected to a matter, an objective opinion from a third party seems to have value, at least in my view. 

Sometimes you hurt the one you love the most.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I think people here are correct in one thing. I’ve not handled it in the best way that I could from the start. I should have taken her more seriously from the start and insisted on a real conversation about it 3 months ago. I have been unintentionally dismissive of her feelings and stubborn about my own thoughts on the matter. I can see now how some of my comments and actions may have been interpreted by her and have only fueled the fire. Thank you to those who have given me a woman’s perspective on the issue. I’ll try to be more cognizant of that moving forward. Yes, I did view this as a silly phase. I probably even told her it was a silly phase. I feel bad because to her, whether it’s actually a phase or not, it was not silly at all.
> 
> I also realize that I have not made the right moves as far as her sex withholding. Oh I’ve made a lot of bad moves there. I thought by showing her “that’s fine, I don’t care, I don’t need you” she’d give up with the sex strike because she wasn’t getting the reaction she wanted out of me. No, in her mind I handed control over to her and she felt like she was winning. I also probably made her feel even worse because hey, I’m fine not having sex with you so I must not really love or desire you that much. That’s a message she was probably hearing from my “I’m not really affected” act. That’s all it was, an act. In reality I get a boner practically every time I see her naked and I spent many many frustrated days (still am) trying to kill all the thoughts of the variety of sexual things I’d like to be doing to her at any given moment. I wonder what damage I’ve done to her there by pretending like I really didn’t care if she didn’t want to sleep with me all but 5 times in 3 months. I’m not completely sure how to fix that one now either.


welcome to the human race. We’ve all done similar things at various times.

Did you handle everything perfectly at every step of the way? No.

But neither has she by any stretch of the imagination. 

You have played your own roles in getting you Where you are now, but that means you can both also work to come to a solution. 

And while one of you will ultimately come out disappointed, if you can work together, you can find a way to make it the most tolerable for that person as you can.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> What is interesting about this latest update is how she is now “over it” because her mother told her basically, that’s it’s a bad idea, but when you were sharing your feelings on it, trying to rationally explain why you didn’t wish to have a baby, your input wasn’t good enough.
> 
> No comment really, just found that interesting.


A common enough circumstance. A H can state facts to no avail but if W gets same advice from another it seems to register.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I'm sorry but I cannot equate the arrogant smirking teasing punishing way she has gone about this as her having a deep emotional upheaval that deserves a lot of sympathy. I wouldn't reward that at all. I don't think it runs that deep. I think she had an impulsive desire based on all the wrong reasons simply because her daughter-in-law got pregnant and was getting attention she didn't get as a teen. I think when she went to her mother, she was probably hoping for positive attention about getting pregnant again and instead she got a reality check and realized that this pregnancy isn't going to bring her the fawning attention after all, at least not from her family, and that her mother calling her crazy for wanting a child at this age was a cold bucket of water. 

And I don't think turning 40 should be a cataclysmic event been involves mocking your husband and trying to steal thunder from your son and his wife. This is not the actions of someone who's grief runs deep.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I figure she just needed to hear it from somebody who wasn’t me.


When she hears it from you, she can tell herself, "He just doesn't want the work of a baby." She needed someone who wasn't going to have to help out with late night feedings and deal with dirty diapers to tell her that the whole plan was crazy, because you are too close to it. While I think this is long overdue and should have been addressed sooner, hindsight is always 20/20. She has definitely acted like a brat, and she definitely owes you an apology. There's a difference between excusing a behavior and explaining it that it seems many posters cannot understand. Two things can be true at once: she can be hurting, and she can be wrong. And I totally disagree that you have culpability here. I don't think you do. She's an adult who acted like a child. I feel bad for her because what she's going through is tough, but her behavior was unacceptable.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> And I don't think turning 40 should be a cataclysmic event been involves mocking your husband and trying to steal thunder from your son and his wife. This is not the actions of someone who's grief runs deep.


Perhaps it shouldn't. Perhaps she should have turned to, say, a forum for assistance in dealing with her problems with aging. She dealt with it very poorly, but as someone who cried for two weeks when I turned 30 and you know how things are going for me because of 50, I feel a lot of sympathy for her struggle. Not her behavior, but her struggle. That she is going through something is NO excuse for how she's treated her husband. Again, IMHO.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Perhaps it shouldn't. Perhaps she should have turned to, say, a forum for assistance in dealing with her problems with aging. She dealt with it very poorly, but as someone who cried for two weeks when I turned 30 and you know how things are going for me because of 50, I feel a lot of sympathy for her struggle. Not her behavior, but her struggle. That she is going through something is NO excuse for how she's treated her husband. Again, IMHO.


You may be right but I don't see what she's doing as a struggle because she's gotten old. I see it as her getting triggered from the daughter-in-law getting positive attention to wanting to fix her teen pregnancy and get approval so that this just acted as a triggering event for her on resentment she has from that.

And I think that's why it was her mother that was able to bring her down to earth and she was probably hoping to get her approval so she's very upset about that. But if her mother had any inkling how she's been acting to her husband, it would be much worse for her.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> No, this will damage his marriage.
> 
> @CoffeeandTV
> 
> ...


His marriage isn't broken and in need of repair. His wife is the one who needs to be "repaired".

It's one thing to not get what we want in life, but to act the way that she has, not for a few days, but for THREE MONTHS??

I could understand her feeling this way if she never had a child but she does. To me this just shows how selfish she is. Instead of this being about their only child having a child of their own, and getting to experience the BLESSING of being a grandparent and spending time showering this new baby with love and helping their son and DIL out she wants to make this about herself and having her own baby?? 

So her clock is ticking......so F'n what. Yes he can have compassion for her and be understanding during this realization that this ship has sailed but I agree with what OP said previously, once you bring a child into this world, it's ALL about the baby and what's in their best interest. 

It's one thing to have understanding it's another thing to have her pull the B.S. she's pulling.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You may be right but I don't see what she's doing as a struggle because she's gotten old. I see it as her getting triggered from the daughter-in-law getting positive attention to wanting to fix her teen pregnancy and get approval so that this just acted as a triggering event for her on resentment she has from that.
> 
> And I think that's why it was her mother that was able to bring her down to earth and she was probably hoping to get her approval so she's very upset about that. But if her mother had any inkling how she's been acting to her husband, it would be much worse for her.


Yeah, I am very likely projecting my own struggle on to her. I'm not trying to excuse her behavior, I'm just offering my perspective, and if it's really all about being the center of attention that is just... abysmal. It's also that nothing the OP has said about her has indicated that being an attention hog is normal behavior for her. He made it sound like until this happened she was a fairly reasonable person. 

I would be VERY interested to hear what her mother would say if she told him how she's been treating her husband. If her mother is worth a hoot it will be something like, "shame on you, go apologize for acting like a total brat."


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> She's supposed to keep excitedly putting out and keep her struggle to herself so he doesn't feel too bad. I can't see how that's helpful.


Punishing him by withholding sex and then throwing it in his face (the skimpy workout clothes) is even worse.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

DTO said:


> Punishing him by withholding sex and then throwing it in his face (the skimpy workout clothes) is even worse.


Once again...she's not withholding. He says they've had sex but he's not even into it with the baby thing. I cab understand that.

I agree she isn't handling this well. I just don't understand why so many people still think there's no sex.

And frankly she may not be in much of a mood while she processes this.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> Read it again. She's not withholding....they've had some sex. It's just had the baby thing hanging over it.


Which was a mood killer for him. 5 times in 3 months and it seems he wasn't into it. I don't know you, but that'd suck for me.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sfort said:


> No argument there, but if third-party opinions are not useful, why do people talk with priests, preachers, rabbis, counselors, life coaches, psychiatrists, psychologists, and the like? When two people are emotionally connected to a matter, an objective opinion from a third party seems to have value, at least in my view.
> 
> Sometimes you hurt the one you love the most.


That’s fair, and I agree that I’ve done this.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

pastasauce79 said:


> Which was a mood killer for him. 5 times in 3 months and it seems he wasn't into it. I don't know you, but that'd suck for me.


Understandably so. The whioe MLC thing is likely a mood killer by itself, and I agree that a hb who isn't into it would suck too. Tough situation.....they're stuck in a loop.

This is what they've got until this resolves. I hope they can come together until then.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That's really what it sounded like. I guess it is possible to have one for 3 months but it's not that common. But if it was a manic phase then what is the following is going to be a bad depression.


Maybe I've been traumatized by my mil and her hormonal imbalances, but she got obsessed with the idea of getting a puppy while having a hypomanic episode. She got the puppy, she got better and she forgets the puppy needs attention, food, etc. 

I panic when I hear women wanting something crazy all of a sudden. My first thought is, "is this a maniac episode?" 😱


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

lifeistooshort said:


> Once again...she's not withholding. He says they've had sex but he's not even into it with the baby thing. I cab understand that.
> 
> I agree she isn't handling this well. I just don't understand why so many people still think there's no sex.
> 
> And frankly she may not be in much of a mood while she processes this.


What sex are you referring to? The 5 times in 3 months?

You don’t think that going from an average of 5 times a week to 5 times in 3+ months is her withholding sex? You don’t think that her declaring “I’m not having sex with you to punish you for not giving me a baby!” Is withholding sex? She actually said that, multiple times. You don’t think that her intentionally doing things to turn me on and tease me only to literally say “nope!” and skip away with a smirk on her face is withholding? You don’t think her laying on the bed with her legs spread and masturbating knowing that I’m about to come in the room to go to bed, then saying things like “we could be having sex together if you’d just agree with me” is withholding?

Have you missed all of that? This is not simply a matter of her being sad and not in the mood for sex.

5 times in 3 months, with her declaring that she is intentionally denying me, is withholding sex! If it makes any difference, the last time we had sex was almost 3 weeks ago now. Before that, the previous 4 times were in June and once in early July!


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

pastasauce79 said:


> Which was a mood killer for him. 5 times in 3 months and it seems he wasn't into it. I don't know you, but that'd suck for me.


The mention of a baby right in the middle of sex was a bit of mood killer for me but it didn’t stop me. The last 2 times we had sex I pulled out. I don’t think she’d really try to intentionally plan an oops pregnancy but with the way she’s been acting and with all the talk of a baby during the few times she’s agreed to sex, I thought it might be a good idea. Of course that made her mad.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> What sex are you referring to? The 5 times in 3 months?
> 
> You don’t think that going from an average of 5 times a week to 5 times in 3+ months is her withholding sex? You don’t think that her declaring “I’m not having sex with you to punish you for not giving me a baby!” Is withholding sex? She actually said that, multiple times. You don’t think that her intentionally doing things to turn me on and tease me only to literally say “nope!” and skip away with a smirk on her face is withholding? You don’t think her laying on the bed with her legs spread and masturbating knowing that I’m about to come in the room to go to bed, then saying things like “we could be having sex together if you’d just agree with me” is withholding?
> 
> ...


She's definitely being an asshole about it, but in fairness you mentioned that you weren't really into it.

Let me ask you something. Knowing what's going on how into it are you going to be if she starts putting out multiple times a week while you know very well she's miserable?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> For sure it would be life changing
> 
> 
> But this is one of those things where you think you have all the time in the world, then you realize you don't. It can take some coming to terns with.


I agree with you...  in the sense that I understand the wife's point of view. Totally. But I also understand the husband's.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> The mention of a baby right in the middle of sex was a bit of mood killer for me but it didn’t stop me. The last 2 times we had sex I pulled out. I don’t think she’d really try to intentionally plan an oops pregnancy but with the way she’s been acting and with all the talk of a baby during the few times she’s agreed to sex, I thought it might be a good idea. Of course that made her mad.


One of the most satisfying parts of sex for me is the internal part....i feel really clise to him. My guy pulling out would pretty much ruin it.

Do you think that's sustainable?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> I agree with you...  in the sense that I understand the wife's point of view. Totally. But I also understand the husband's.


All of us over 40 understand his point of view.

I like sleep 🙂


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

lifeistooshort said:


> She's definitely being an asshole about it, but in fairness you mentioned that you weren't really into it.
> 
> Let me ask you something. Knowing what's going on how into it are you going to be if she starts putting out multiple times a week while you know very well she's miserable?


You still won’t acknowledge that she’s withholding sex?

Do you see the difference between her saying that she’s struggling and sad and miserable, which makes her not in the mood for sex and her declaring “I’m not having sex with you because you won’t do what I want, haha!” it’s totally different.

If she had said something like “I’m really upset and so I’m not in the mood for sex” I wouldn’t have loved that but at least that would seem genuine and something that I’d try to sympathize with for a time. That is not how she had acted at all. She teases me and then laughs about it. She says she is not having sex with me to punish me. It’s a totally different situation.

If she can be an adult and tell me that she is in fact not interested in sex because of how she feels right now then I’m willing to listen.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

lifeistooshort said:


> One of the most satisfying parts of sex for me is the internal part....i feel really clise to him. My guy pulling out would pretty much ruin it.
> 
> Do you think that's sustainable?


Yes, I prefer to finish inside of her too; although, in the past when a baby wasn’t in question we’ve enjoyed finishing in other ways/other places as well.

I wouldn’t have pulled out if she hadn’t been acting so bratty and childish about it. Please keep in mind that the times we did have sex were after she declared she was going to withhold it to punish me. Then suddenly she decided twice in one weekend she wanted sex and was going all in and really putting on a good show? I don’t know, maybe I was being childish by pulling out and was doing it to get back at her without realizing it.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Yes, I prefer to finish inside of her too; although, in the past when a baby wasn’t in question we’ve enjoyed finishing in other ways/other places as well.
> 
> I wouldn’t have pulled out if she hadn’t been acting so bratty and childish about it. Please keep in mind that the times we did have sex were after she declared she was going to withhold it to punish me. Then suddenly she decided twice in one weekend she wanted sex and was going all in and really putting on a good show? I don’t know, maybe I was being childish by pulling out and was doing it to get back at her without realizing it.


As childish as she was being, I can't see faulting you for your reactions. I mean, sure, we all want to be magnanimous and grown up at all times, but we're only human.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Last night when she came to bed a few minutes after me I tried to cuddle up to her, not with sex in mind but I was just trying to tell her I loved her. We sleep naked - I waited so many years to be able to do that without the threat of a kid running into the room and wanting to sleep between us. So last night she says “I’m *STILL* not having sex with you!” Ok fine, I wasn’t suggesting that we should in that moment, although I would have agreed in a millisecond if she had wanted to. I doubt I would have pulled out either. She goes “I can feel your boner on my butt!” What does she expect, she’s naked and beautiful and I’m touching her and we haven’t had sex in nearly 3 weeks and I can’t control it! I would never want to force her to do something she didn’t want to do.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Last night when she came to bed a few minutes after me I tried to cuddle up to her, not with sex in mind but I was just trying to tell her I loved her. We sleep naked - I waited so many years to be able to do that without the threat of a kid running into the room and wanting to sleep between us. So last night she says “I’m *STILL* not having sex with you!” Ok fine, I wasn’t suggesting that we should in that moment, although I would have agreed in a millisecond if she had wanted to. I doubt I would have pulled out either. She goes “I can feel your boner on my butt!” What does she expect, she’s naked and beautiful and I’m touching her and we haven’t had sex in nearly 3 weeks and I can’t control it! I would never want to force her to do something she didn’t want to do.


If roles were reversed, she would be very hurt by you doing and saying what she is doing and saying.

How did you respond to her?

Might be time to take that trip away...

ETA: She is not turning to you in her time of need, she is taking it out on you instead...


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I would have agreed in a millisecond if she had wanted to. I doubt I would have pulled out either.


This is what she is hoping for.



CoffeeandTV said:


> What does she expect, she’s naked and beautiful and I’m touching her and we haven’t had sex in nearly 3 weeks and I can’t control it!


She's got you right where she wants you.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Have you asked her if she will go to counseling with you? This really needs to be discussed at length so that residual resentment isn’t the dominant emotion in the marriage moving forward.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Last night when she came to bed a few minutes after me I tried to cuddle up to her, not with sex in mind but I was just trying to tell her I loved her. We sleep naked - I waited so many years to be able to do that without the threat of a kid running into the room and wanting to sleep between us. So last night she says “I’m *STILL* not having sex with you!” Ok fine, I wasn’t suggesting that we should in that moment, although I would have agreed in a millisecond if she had wanted to. I doubt I would have pulled out either. She goes “I can feel your boner on my butt!” What does she expect, she’s naked and beautiful and I’m touching her and we haven’t had sex in nearly 3 weeks and I can’t control it! I would never want to force her to do something she didn’t want to do.


Ugh. So mean. I know she's hurting and going through some stuff, but she is being a real donkeybutt right now. Maybe that heart to heart shouldn't wait until the end of the weekend. And maybe if she tries to not have the conversation you should tell her that the status quo is not sustainable, she is being spiteful and juvenile and it is not fair for her to take out her emotional issues on you. That you want to help her but she's going to have to be an adult about this and discuss it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

pastasauce79 said:


> Maybe I've been traumatized by my mil and her hormonal imbalances, but she got obsessed with the idea of getting a puppy while having a hypomanic episode. She got the puppy, she got better and she forgets the puppy needs attention, food, etc.
> 
> I panic when I hear women wanting something crazy all of a sudden. My first thought is, "is this a maniac episode?" 😱


I have a bipolar friend who has done the same thing. She does things in manic phase that the pets suffer for. I begged her never to get her first dog because she doesn't even really like dogs. She resents them because of her dad. But she's very extroverted and she has to have lots of attention and it was one way of getting attention and she totally neglected them I know.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She goes “I can feel your boner on my butt!” What does she expect, she’s naked and beautiful and I’m touching her and we haven’t had sex in nearly 3 weeks and I can’t control it!





CoffeeandTV said:


> So last night she says “I’m *STILL* not having sex with you!”


Way not cool on her part. She has abused you horribly and decides she is going to continue, I guess because she can. Sometimes people are their own worst enemies. She can keep this up and eventually drive you away. I know you are still in the mode of staying close with her but that won't continue forever. I mean you didn't sign up for celebacy. 

Does she in fact realize if she works on it long and hard enough she can end up without a baby and also without a husband. I wonder what her mother would say? Will your wife engage with you in a "frank and honest" discussion? If not, I have no advice. Maybe the hormones and her MLC have conspired to drive her to destroying her life. Sometimes people can't be helped.

Feel really badly for both of you. Some more third parties need to intervene before this spirals out of control into a crash and burn.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> She had a child when she was 16, if I'm not mistaken. It's not really like she had a child 3 years ago and the husband now says no to another... this is her last chance to have a baby when she can actually enjoy it. A totally life-changing experience.


24 years of chances before grand baby event happened. OP would have been all in were he not 40 something.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Read it again. She's not withholding....they've had some sex. It's just had the baby thing hanging over it.


Not true. She’s not only withholding, she’s told him she is punishing him by withholding


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I guess females are different than males.

If anyone deliberately manipulated my sexuality and used my attraction and desire for him as a way to manipulate, mock (the snickering, and openly masturbating saying "this could be you"), and punish me, my desire for him would fly out the door and it would PERMANENTLY be damaged. For sure.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Has your wife been spiteful like this, when it comes to other topics, OP?


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## DaringGreatly (7 mo ago)

Personal said:


> You're absolutely right, in the face of his wife withholding sex from him. He should go out and have sex with another woman or women to take care of his own sexual needs. Or just bring one home with him, if he isn't keen on going out to take care of himself.


People with strong 25 year marriages generally don't think in those terms. 
I hope they work it out so she can come to terms with her situation and they go on to have another awesome 25 years.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

My thoughts on why she’s actually allowed sex the 5 times she has? Either she was horny enough that she caved in or she thought that bringing the baby topic up mid-sex would change my response. She generally has a pretty high sex drive, especially after she decided about 4 years ago to focus on her health and fitness big time and starting becoming very active. She’s still masturbating so she can’t claim that she’s so sad and upset that she’s just not in the mood for sex.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Just read your latest post. I’m still not having sex with you. Anyone including her can grasp the fact that very few men (or women) will choose to have a baby in their 40’s.
Even her mom has told her she’s crazy.
Year she still wants to punish you and apparently gets joy out of turning you down.

I can tell you that what she is doing would anger me immeasurably and I personally would lose my patience. I think your patience at this point is getting very close to being closer to reaching the doormat status.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Livvie said:


> I guess females are different than males.
> 
> If anyone deliberately manipulated my sexuality and used my attraction and desire for him as a way to manipulate, mock (the snickering), and punish me, my desire for him would fly out the door and it would PERMANENTLY be damaged. For sure.


Same. I wouldn't be interested in having sex with my husband if he used sex as a way to control me.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> My thoughts on why she’s actually allowed sex the 5 times she has? Either she was horny enough that she caved in or she thought that bringing the baby topic up mid-sex would change my response. She generally has a pretty high sex drive, especially after she decided about 4 years ago to focus on her health and fitness big time and starting becoming very active. She’s still masturbating so she can’t claim that she’s so sad and upset that she’s just not in the mood for sex.


I'm just still suspicious of whether she went off birth control or not because I don't see the point in stopping You mid sex if she's on birth control and can't get pregnant yet. I think she probably stopped her birth control. That would mean she still could get pregnant even after starting to take it again. Just looked that up and it's 7 days. It would be good to get a look at her birth control container and see where it's at and look at it every few days. Of course if she knew you were doing that, she could simply dispose of some pills so you wouldn't want her to know. Hoping she keeps it out on the counter or in the medicine cabinet or something.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

She needs to see a psychologist.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She needs to see a psychologist.


How is that going to happen?


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> I think your patience at this point is getting very close to being closer to reaching the doormat status.


Yep passiveness is not attractive to women. This whole "I don't need it" bit plus his continuing to take what we she is throwing at him without any consequence is not only not helping, it is hurting his cause.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She needs to see a psychologist.


THIS. See, I have relatives who, if I heard they did something like this, I wouldn't be surprised at all, because assholes gonna asshole. But by all accounts, and correct me if I'm wrong, this woman was a functional adult for their entire marriage and then three months ago, she fell out of her tree and started acting in this ridiculous way. It's interesting to me how, when she didn't get her way, she basically stopped doing the "wife" things until her husband did the "husband" thing she wanted. Seems like a process we've heard about before that was hailed as an excellent way to deal with these types of issues, interesting that when she did it suddenly it's bullying. But anyway, normal, healthy-minded people don't suddenly go from Jekyll to Hyde on a dime and maintain it for three months. It's not normal behavior. That's why I have a hard time assuming it's some superficial issue like "I want another baby." I feel like surely there has to be more to it, because even though there is post after post on here about how all women act this way, the adults in the room know that isn't the case. This behavior is out of character for her, so it seems overly simple that it would be nothing more than "I want a baby." I think there's more at play here, and frankly, this isn't something the OP can understand or help with. He's not a woman and can't know what she's going through, and he's not a trained psychologist with the ability to unpack complex emotional issues. Enough is enough, though, because he has tolerated way too much of this insanity. It might be a good idea to condition some individual therapy on continuing the marriage. Because I really don't think this is going to go away on it's own, and if she doesn't deal with it her depression will continue and likely worsen.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> My thoughts on why she’s actually allowed sex the 5 times she has? Either she was horny enough that she caved in or she thought that bringing the baby topic up mid-sex would change my response. She generally has a pretty high sex drive, especially after she decided about 4 years ago to focus on her health and fitness big time and starting becoming very active. She’s still masturbating so she can’t claim that she’s so sad and upset that she’s just not in the mood for sex.


Why are you still sleeping in her bed and letting her torture you? Why don't you just move to the couch or a spare room or whatever you've got and put an end to her little game in a way that won't be as hard for you. She is coming dangerously close to winning because you are getting more and more desperate. After her doing that again last night, I just don't know why you would want to cuddle with her. Take her tool away by not giving her that chance until she's got her head on straight.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She needs to see a psychologist.


I agree, but that would mean she has to recognize and admit that she has a problem.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Why are you still sleeping in her bed and letting her torture you? Why don't you just move to the couch or a spare room or whatever you've got and put an end to her little game in a way that won't be as hard for you. She is coming dangerously close to winning because you are getting more and more desperate. After her doing that again last night, I just don't know why you would want to cuddle with her. Take her tool away by not giving her that chance until she's got her head on straight.


I'm of the belief that you never sleep apart in anger or due to a disagreement. I completely understand what you are saying here, and doing what you suggest is justified. However, I think it just pushes them further apart. As far as I'm concerned she is completely wrong in what she is doing, but I think @CoffeeandTV needs to take the highest road possible while not caving in.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I agree, but that would mean she has to recognize and admit that she has a problem.


Unfortunately, she needs a wake-up call. Him sleeping in another room would be one, although she might interpret that as a rejection, especially if she's dealing with age issues. Him telling her she needs to get some help or they will have to discuss their future is another. I wonder if the OP could talk to the mother about it. I know I'd rather get a brazillian from an angry raccoon than talk to my MIL. But this is pretty serious.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm of the belief that you never sleep apart in anger or due to a disagreement. I completely understand what you are saying here, and doing what you suggest is justified. However, I think it just pushes them further apart. As far as I'm concerned she is completely wrong in what she is doing, but I think @CoffeeandTV needs to take the highest road possible while not caving in.


He could offer to sleep with her if she was going to have sex but otherwise tell her he'd rather not torture himself.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> He could offer to sleep with her if she was going to have sex but otherwise tell her he'd rather not torture himself.


Off topic but I think it's sweet he's so hot for her. Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled thread.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Why would she be so mad you pulled out if she is currently on birth control?

Makes me thinks she has stopped her birth control without telling you.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Evinrude58 said:


> Not true. She’s not only withholding, she’s told him she is punishing him by withholding


People who use sex as a power play are the worst human beings.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Last night when she came to bed a few minutes after me I tried to cuddle up to her, not with sex in mind but I was just trying to tell her I loved her. We sleep naked - I waited so many years to be able to do that without the threat of a kid running into the room and wanting to sleep between us. So last night she says “I’m *STILL* not having sex with you!” Ok fine, I wasn’t suggesting that we should in that moment, although I would have agreed in a millisecond if she had wanted to. I doubt I would have pulled out either. She goes “I can feel your boner on my butt!” What does she expect, she’s naked and beautiful and I’m touching her and we haven’t had sex in nearly 3 weeks and I can’t control it! I would never want to force her to do something she didn’t want to do.


You do NOT have to tell people here what your wife is doing [each] night with you. There are things that should be between you and your wife only. Give her time to heal and be patient with her.

Following update:









Wife intentionally withholding sex for 3 months


Celebrated the 25th anniversary of our first date in April and I know it was right around this time in August 1997 that she found out she was pregnant. She remembers the exact date. I only remember date of conception, but it was the 4th of July so I have a cheat there. I’m not really sure where...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





- is meaningful. It is important for you to learn from your own mistakes.

You can suggest and push for 'marital counseling' to your wife *IF* your situation does not improve in a span of a month. You can consult your MIL in the meantime; she seems to understand your situation and can help you.

If you will continue to post here what your wife is doing [each] night with you, you will continue to give more ammunition to people to berate your wife and pump you to make more mistakes. You have already told your wife that she can have a baby with another man in one of your recent arguments - not cool and not good.

Your 'conflict situation' is NOT a joke. More and more mistakes can lead to dissolution of your marriage. Professional assistance should be on the cards in your case.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Last night when she came to bed a few minutes after me I tried to cuddle up to her, not with sex in mind but I was just trying to tell her I loved her. We sleep naked - I waited so many years to be able to do that without the threat of a kid running into the room and wanting to sleep between us. So last night she says “I’m *STILL* not having sex with you!” Ok fine, I wasn’t suggesting that we should in that moment, although I would have agreed in a millisecond if she had wanted to. I doubt I would have pulled out either. She goes “I can feel your boner on my butt!” What does she expect, she’s naked and beautiful and I’m touching her and we haven’t had sex in nearly 3 weeks and I can’t control it! I would never want to force her to do something she didn’t want to do.


Coffee, there is a basic behavioral rule when dealing with people or animals. Don't ever reward bad behavior. Walk away from bad behavior or ignore it. Only reward good behavior. Otherwise you are training them to keep up the bad behavior because that's what they get rewarded for. She's been abusive to you and you're wanting to cuddle and comfort her. So she's just going to keep up abusing you. 

You need to withdraw from her when she's doing that and that's been all she's done lately. You can't soothe her into stopping the nastiness. You're going to have to withdraw from it and let her know that isn't going to work on you.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Why are you still sleeping in her bed and letting her torture you?


IMO it is HIS bed as much as hers. In his shoes there is no way I would leave my own bed and sleep on the damned couch just because she wants to be a byche.

If she doesn't want sex with him, he can just masturbate in HIS bed, just like she does, and let her watch, or leave. Her choice.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> IMO it is HIS bed as much as hers. In his shoes there is no way I would leave my own bed and sleep on the damned couch just because she wants to be a byche.
> 
> If she doesn't want sex with him, he can just masturbate in HIS bed, just like she does, and let her watch, or leave. Her choice.


I understand your take on it but he's the one who's suffering, not her. And he is dangerously close to giving in to her and she knows it. Sleeping nude next to his wife after 3 months of this abuse is just about the stupidest thing he could do. She's enjoying this to some extent or she wouldn't be still doing it. This is just giving her an opportunity to punish him for something he hasn't done.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> My thoughts on why she’s actually allowed sex the 5 times she has? Either she was horny enough that she caved in or she thought that bringing the baby topic up mid-sex would change my response. She generally has a pretty high sex drive, especially after she decided about 4 years ago to focus on her health and fitness big time and starting becoming very active. She’s still masturbating so she can’t claim that she’s so sad and upset that she’s just not in the mood for sex.


What does she do or say when you masturbate? You say she does. How does she respond when you do the same openly?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I understand your take on it but he's the one who's suffering, not her. And he is dangerously close to giving in to her and she knows it. Sleeping nude next to his wife after 3 months of this abuse is just about the stupidest thing he could do. She's enjoying this to some extent or she wouldn't be still doing it. This is just giving her an opportunity to punish him for something he hasn't done.


Thats why I said just take care of himself while looking at her.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

CountryMike said:


> What does she do or say when you masturbate? You say she does. How does she respond when you do the same openly?


My wife would never do this in a million years, but if she laid next to me masturbating saying don't you wish you could have this, I would whip it out laying next to her and say the same thing. In reality I bet it wouldn't go over big with OP's wife. Her behavior at the moment is absurd.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

Your wife has become abusive, controlling and manipulative. What she has been doing the last 3 months or so is cruel. I'd even go as far to say she is blackmailing you, no more sex unless you agree to a baby. Has she ever been controlling before or emotionally abusive. 

If this was a man treating the wife this way everyone would be shouting it's abuse. 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> In reality I bet it wouldn't go over big with OP's wife. Her behavior at the moment is absurd.


At this point, why should he care? Since she is nude, use looking at her as the primer for getting off right in front of her. If she doesn't like that SHE will have to go sleep on the couch. Actually imagine him masturbating and her getting aroused enough to try to engage him. Then he can push her away and say "nope!".

Seems to me she has given him more shyte than he needs to put up with. He can only control himself, he ought to just do what he wants to do and to h3ll with what she thinks, whether it "goes over big" for her or not.

One thing to think about, is he took responsibility 25 years ago, cared for her, stayed with her, and eventually married her. A lot of young guys would have vanished and she would have been a single mother trying to raise a child on her own. OP worked a lot harder and showed way more integrity than MOST young guys. She ought to recall that instead of treating him this way.

I think she is really playing with fire in a room filed with kegs of gunpowder. Here she has a husband who evidently floats her boat in every respect including sexually. He has been faithful for a quarter century and they have built a nice life together. Getting ready to have the true joys of being grandparents. (If I had known how much fun that was, would have had grandkids first lol )

If she works hard enough at it she can drive him away. And it may take less additional effort in that direction than she knows. She can very easily end up single again facing menopause. And how will her son feel toward her if that happens? Sometimes we don't know what we have until it is gone.

I am betting that if she doesn't want him, there are plenty of other women who will.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> Your wife has become abusive, controlling and manipulative. What she has been doing the last 3 months or so is cruel. I'd even go as far to say she is blackmailing you, no more sex unless you agree to a baby. Has she ever been controlling before or emotionally abusive.
> 
> If this was a man treating the wife this way everyone would be shouting it's abuse.


I agree. Taunting and teasing your spouse is terrible She openly admitted that she is punishing him. This is outright abuse.

Normally, I'd say that she needs empathy and comfort, but she is behaving horribly. This is unconscionable behavior. To have feelings is one thing. To take it out on another person by being cruel is quite another. She is tearing her marriage down. Why on earth would anyone want to procreate with someone who treats them like this?

I think it's time to deal head on with the abuse. Make no mistake. This is outright abusive behavior. You don't have to tolerate it. Her desire for a baby is now a non-issue until she repents of her abuse. There is no point in even trying to discuss it anymore. You have tried to be loving and supportive towards her and her response has been to push you away and abuse you.

It sounds like she is having a mental breakdown, if she hasn't ever behaved this way before. This is crazy behavior.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> Your wife has become abusive, controlling and manipulative. What she has been doing the last 3 months or so is cruel. I'd even go as far to say she is blackmailing you, no more sex unless you agree to a baby. Has she ever been controlling before or emotionally abusive.
> 
> If this was a man treating the wife this way everyone would be shouting it's abuse.


Actually no. When a man treats his wife this way, it's hailed as the proper way to deal with an unruly wife. There's a whole online article about this exact method of getting what you want from your wife that is touted all over this forum. So no, everyone wouldn't be calling it abusive, controlling and manipulative. 

I would be, because I believe that whether it's the man OR the woman, this kind of behavior is disgusting, selfish, childish, immature and ultimately just a precursor for divorce, designed to either make the spouse file for divorce or to break their spirit. I think it's always wrong to be a spiteful jerk, and it has no place in marriage, and that is what I think of the OP's wife's behavior here.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Cynthia said:


> Her desire for a baby is now a non-issue until she repents of her abuse. There is no point in even trying to discuss it anymore. You have tried to be loving and supportive towards her and her response has been to push you away and abuse you.


This ^^^^


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> My wife would never do this in a million years, but if she laid next to me masturbating saying don't you wish you could have this, I would whip it out laying next to her and say the same thing. In reality I bet it wouldn't go over big with OP's wife. Her behavior at the moment is absurd.


While I haven’t whipped it out while laying next to her and staring into her eyes while rubbing one out (although, the childish side of me does get quite a bit of entertainment out of the thought of doing that right about now), I have not been hiding in a closet and masturbating secretly either. I have a high drive. I don’t need to masturbate every day that I’m not getting sex, or at least I try to tell myself that, but after a few days I am physically in pain and cannot take it anymore. If I want to masturbate then I do it and if she sees me doing it that’s no big deal to me. It happened the other day. She walked in and said “oh, you’re masturbating?” What does it look like I’m doing? I just kept going.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Rus47 said:


> One thing to think about, is he took responsibility 25 years ago, cared for her, stayed with her, and eventually married her. A lot of young guys would have vanished and she would have been a single mother trying to raise a child on her own. OP worked a lot harder and showed way more integrity than MOST young guys. She ought to recall that instead of treating him this way.


Do you think that a widow is not able to find a partner? I am pretty sure that a single mom can also find a new partner. Only those women do not have partners who are mentally broken and do not understand how to carry a relationship.

OP's wife have done 'everything' for him as well. She have been faithful to him as well. She have helped him build his life as well. She have taken care of his needs as well.

Yes, she is NOT in a good frame of mind in the present due to the ongoing 'conflict situation' with her husband over having another baby. She is hurt and unable to think straight due to OP's rejection. She might be in need of 'marital counseling' to get through.

People seem to discredit her and her sacrifices in her marriage completely. Not cool.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> My wife would never do this in a million years, but if she laid next to me masturbating saying don't you wish you could have this, I would whip it out laying next to her and say the same thing. In reality I bet it wouldn't go over big with OP's wife. Her behavior at the moment is absurd.


Fn'A.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Do you think that a widow is not able to find a partner? I am pretty sure that a single mom can also find a new partner. Only those women do not have partners who are mentally broken and do not understand how to carry a relationship.
> 
> OP's wife have done 'everything' for him as well. She have been faithful to him as well. She have helped him build his life as well. She have taken care of his needs as well.
> 
> ...


Circular. Been said.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm just still suspicious of whether she went off birth control or not because I don't see the point in stopping You mid sex if she's on birth control and can't get pregnant yet. I think she probably stopped her birth control. That would mean she still could get pregnant even after starting to take it again. Just looked that up and it's 7 days. It would be good to get a look at her birth control container and see where it's at and look at it every few days. Of course if she knew you were doing that, she could simply dispose of some pills so you wouldn't want her to know. Hoping she keeps it out on the counter or in the medicine cabinet or something.


I didn’t want to be the one to say it, but I wondered if her sudden change of mood was caused by the arrival of her period — that she had thought maybe she was pregnant, but had to concede she was not.

Id be sleeping in the other room, telling her she needs to figure out what she wants, but I’m not available for her to taunt and abuse.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Rus47 said:


> IMO it is HIS bed as much as hers. In his shoes there is no way I would leave my own bed and sleep on the damned couch just because she wants to be a byche.
> 
> If she doesn't want sex with him, he can just masturbate in HIS bed, just like she does, and let her watch, or leave. Her choice.


Having done it myself, the fact I’m no longer in my bed and on an uncomfortable futon was a negligible cost.  Being cut off from manipulation and mind ****s, detaching rather than orbiting: priceless.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Do you think that a widow is not able to find a partner? I am pretty sure that a single mom can also find a new partner. Only those women do not have partners who are mentally broken and do not understand how to carry a relationship.
> 
> OP's wife have done 'everything' for him as well. She have been faithful to him as well. She have helped him build his life as well. She have taken care of his needs as well.
> 
> ...


None of which entitles her to unilaterally demand a new baby at 41. 
Nor does it justify or excuse her current behavior. Not cool.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

DudeInProgress said:


> None of which entitles her to unilaterally demand a new baby at 41.
> Nor does it justify or excuse her current behavior. Not cool.


Easy for you to say, bro. People are complex and things are not black and white in life. Women are more likely to be driven by emotions than men.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I


CoffeeandTV said:


> You still won’t acknowledge that she’s withholding sex?
> 
> Do you see the difference between her saying that she’s struggling and sad and miserable, which makes her not in the mood for sex and her declaring “I’m not having sex with you because you won’t do what I want, haha!” it’s totally different.
> 
> ...


I've said my piece...feel free to ignore what you want.

Your wife is struggling. Acting poorly......absolutely. But she is struggling and you're supposed to be her support. Remember that.

She's been a great wife for 25 years so I would think that earns her some slack and understanding.

Best of luck to you.....I truly hope a great marriage isn't lost or permanently damaged over a mlc freak out. You may have your own eventually.

I'm out.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> I truly hope a great marriage isn't lost or permanently damaged over a mlc freak out. You may have your own eventually.


It seems so crazy to me to throw away 25 years over 3 months of "penis neglect." But as you say, it's in the OP's hands now.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Easy for you to say, bro. People are complex and things are not black and white in life. *Women are more likely to be driven by emotions than men.*


True, and the correct response is to provide calm rationality, not to pander to emotionally driven whims, demands or bad behavior.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

DudeInProgress said:


> True, and the correct response is to provide calm rationality, not to pander to emotionally driven whims, demands or bad behavior.


I have given plenty of advice to OP in this thread. My latest is in this post. My take is that this couple can benefit from professional input and guidance. OP should bring this up with his wife if his situation does not improve.

OP's marriage is not about HIM only. He have responsibilities towards his wife. Merely complaining about her will not do him much good.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> I have given plenty of advice to OP in this thread. My latest is in this post. My take is that this couple can benefit from professional input and guidance. OP should bring this up with his wife if his situation does not improve.
> 
> *OP's marriage is not about HIM only. He have responsibilities towards his wife. Merely complaining about her will not do him much good.*


Now that is absolutely correct. He needs to stop complaining and reacting, and start leading.
And that does mean talking about it, and listening and letting her talk. And it means acknowledging her emotions, without necessarily agreeing or surrendering to them.

And it also means clearly maintaining his expectations for her and not tolerating ongoing bad behavior. 
It means not tolerating her weaponizing sex and intimacy, whether he ends up agreeing to have another child or not.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

At one point, I said to my spouse, "I'm having sex tonight. The good news is you get to decide if it's with you." I absolutely meant it. The problem was solved for the moment.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I’ll start to sound like a broken record here but- 

- she needs individual therapy for her issues and coping mechanisms.

- both of you need marital counseling to deal with the marital issues caused by the above.

and with each new post, she is sounding nuttier and nuttier and like she is truly having some kind of crisis or breakdown.

lots of women want more children at any age.

but there are extremes in behaviors and wild swings of emotions out of proportion and the fact that this is not her normal self or how she usually responds is concerning.

I think this is way beyond the scope of practice of untrained strangers on the internet and that she needs to see a professional.

there is a cancer growing on her mental stability and on your marriage. You don’t treat cancer with wive’s tales and folk remedies. You see an oncologist.

her emotional/mental health and your marriage both need professional assessment and intervention.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I’d be willing to tell her that while you have been trying to find ways to still feel some close intimacy with her the past several months - and that she has been trying to find ways to shut you out completely.

Call her crap out! She may not be willing to have sex right now - but she certainly doesn’t HAVE to be so cruel and mean about it! 

It’s not right that she punish you and flaunt herself like she’s a steak meal while you’re eating rice.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Sfort said:


> At one point, I said to my spouse, "I'm having sex tonight. The good news is you get to decide if it's with you." I absolutely meant it. The problem was solved for the moment.


I kind of love this.

I feel stuck. I hear some people saying I’m being too passive, that I need to be more assertive, stop accepting this behavior. Then others are saying I’m not being considerate, compassionate, and understanding enough.

I obviously am not doing things completely right at the moment. I’m trying to listen and consider the advice here.

I’ll admit again that I’ve been dismissive of her desire to have a baby and all of the actual feelings she has associated with it. She was also dismissive of my reasons for not wanting to do it. She didn’t seem to want to have a real conversation about it and I figured it was because she knew that all of my reasons made sense. She didn’t want to talk about it, she just wanted me to say yes. I should have tried to force a conversation much earlier. I am trying to get her to have a conversation about it now and she’s refusing. How can you get somebody to sit down and talk when they are refusing? Do I give an ultimatum that she talks to me or…. We know I can’t say I’m going to leave if she doesn’t talk because I’m not at the point of leaving her over it.

Same things goes for the sex issue. At first, I thought she’d go a week or maybe two and that’d be it. I laughed when she first said “no sex!” I’m not laughing now. I just don’t really know what to do. I don’t want to force her to have sex out of obligation to me. That won’t be enjoyable to me at all. I think I can try to force something though because at this point she might be a little mad at me but I know she’s just withioldingnsex to punish me - it’s not because she has no libido, no attraction to me, no physical desire for me. That didn’t just disappear overnight. Despite how she’s acting, I’m sure she still loves me and I love her. I would not want to try to force her hand if this was a matter of her saying she was so depressed that she had no interest in sex. She has plenty of interest. I just didn’t want to be the one who caved in and admitted how badly I needed sex with her. I guess she’s not the only one who can be childish. Again, I will never force her to do something she really doesn’t want to do but I think I’m going to work on putting an end to the sex strike immediately. It’s not just about expecting my penis to be “serviced” or given attention. If that was my main concern I could have found somebody else to do that for me the past 3 months. Without regularly loving sex I just don’t see how we will get over this bump in the road together. Giving sex to each other makes me feel like we’re united as a team no matter what we’re arguing about outside of the bedroom.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> I have given plenty of advice to OP in this thread. My latest is in this post. My take is that this couple can benefit from professional input and guidance. OP should bring this up with his wife if his situation does not improve.
> 
> OP's marriage is not about HIM only. He have responsibilities towards his wife. Merely complaining about her will not do him much good.


I think I’ve continued to fulfill all of my responsibilities to my wife over the past 3 months. In no way do I think this is all about me. I’ve even said if us staying together means one of us has to completely give in, if we can’t come to a mutual understanding of how to live forward that is equally satisfying to both, I’ll take the hit. I wouldn’t be doing it to keep my penis wet.

A few months ago I would have laughed at marriage counseling. I’d be willing to do it now. Somehow I think she’ll only find the suggestion of getting counseling for herself to be an insult but I think she is maybe dealing with deeper feelings than just baby fever and whether she gets upset at me for suggesting she talk to somebody or not I’d rather know I at least encouraged her to do it.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It seems so crazy to me to throw away 25 years over 3 months of "penis neglect." But as you say, it's in the OP's hands now.


It’s not neglect. It’s purposeful punishment and an obvious attempt to manipulate him into doing something he totally doesn’t want that will greatly affect OP’s life, require money, expense, time— with a woman who clearly counts his opinion and desires for naught..

not caring is neglect. This is purposeful.
It was planned.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I kind of love this.
> 
> I feel stuck. I hear some people saying I’m being too passive, that I need to be more assertive, stop accepting this behavior. Then others are saying I’m not being considerate, compassionate, and understanding enough.
> 
> ...


OP you asked for suggestion on what to say. You say you want a conversation but she's refusing. So here's my thoughts.

Let's start with some of the 'advice' you've been given. No person is perfect no marriage is perfect. Many times the advice is well she's not having sex tell her you are going to go out and get it somewhere else. It's a great sound bite but would do lasting damage. She's being childish. Yes she is but based on your description of the previous 25 years it's because you didn't take her seriously and she thought she could get her way and she isn't thinking rationally. You desire to be childish back, and in a way you have. You won't play with me then I don't want to play with you. 

You now say that you want to heal your marriage and it isn't just about sex but look you posted a thread titled my wife is intentionally withholding sex for 3 months in the sex in marriage thread. Which shows you weren't interested in the major dynamics of this situation or in healing the relationship you were interested in your penis. I guarantee she knew this too. So why did she do the things she did I have no idea but I'm sure they are all related. Women never want to feel like all we are good for is a vagina. 

So last night when she said I can feel you penis on my ass. You should have used that opportunity to talk with her. A good response would have been....
I am sure you can. I didn't come over and snuggle with you for sex. But I"m a man and I find you very attractive so being close to you and snuggling I get a hard on. I came over to try to comfort you. To try to figure out how our marriage can move forward. I hate seeing you sad and upset. I hate the space this has created in our relationship. I love you. We are a team. I love you so much and want you to be happy so the other day I stupidly said you could have a baby with another man. Because I want you to be happy and I don't want to stand in the way of that. But it killed me to say that. It killed me to think of you not being in my life. It kills me that I am sure I don't want a baby at this age and that you do.
Most importantly, until this issue came up I was loving life and so enjoying just being with you. You are enough. I don't need anything else in my life. You are what I want and I look forward to spending the decade or two with you. I want you to myself.

I want to apologize. At first I didn't think you were serious, and I didn't take it seriously. Then I was surprised and shocked because for me you are enough. I didn't understand why you wanted a baby. I still don't but I want to know. I want you to tell me. I want to listen. I am sorry we didn't sit down and have an open conversation earlier. 

Now we are in a place where most days I"m crawling the walls to be with you and you act like you could careless about my feelings. I feel like we are growing distant and I don't want that. I worry about resentment in our marriage. I love you and our marriage and I don't know how to get back to being us. I want to be with you the rest of my life.

Can you tell me where you see this going? Is there already too much resentment for you? If we don't talk, if we can't hug. If you won't let me comfort you, what can I do?

Then hopefully she'll own up to some of her feelings maybe let you know what her mom said. She may say you can give me a baby. Then you counter with can you explain why you want one so bad?(not in a condescending way.) then you listen. Just listen don't interrupt to shoot her down. Ask clarifying questions. When she's all done you can say thank you for engaging in this conversation. I don't know where this is headed but we both need to really work to communicate and figure out how we can get through this as a couple. I still don't think we should have a baby but I think we need to be in this together either way. We need to work we each other and remember we love each other. I promise to try to be more open about how I'm feeling and more receptive to your feelings.


Now my thoughts on marriage. In a marriage there are going to be times when your partner just isn't what you'd like. Sometimes it's childish, sometimes not. So your wife isn't treating you well and hasn't behaved in a manner that a 'well adjusted' partner would. But who's done that their whole lives. I accept my partner, I accept that sometimes I have to do the heavy lifting and sometimes he has to. You aren't going to make any headway in a long term happy marriage by doing tit for tat or dismissing someone's opinion which to them is their life. She may deserve lots of things but where would any of us be if we got what we actually deserve?

I can tell you maybe she didn't take any of it to heart. But most long term truly happy marriages I know are because the two people are in it for life no questions and then find a way to make that happen. When you suggest someone else could give her a baby. Well that would have shattered my whole world view if I was her. Which is probably why she's now over it and doesn't want to talk. She doesn't want to push you more. She still upset herself and now feels she's truly alone in it. I feel loved and secure in my marriage, I can have a bad day, month or what have you and it doesn't cross my mind my husband is going to leave me. We are where do we bury the body couple. My husband or I could kill someone and the other would help you bury the body. Not because we are ok with murder or a simp, but because we are in it together. So if one of us messes up and kills someone well we will be in it together whether that's a trial or burying the body. That kind of security bring love and safety and the freedom to be open and vulnerable. But if he brought it up even sideways especially during a ongoing issue, my world would shatter. I'd both not want to lose him so I'd probably straighten up but I'd also resent the hell out of my world being shattered. So now your wife is struggling with wanting a baby. She probably felt safe trying to push you into a baby. Just as you felt safe telling her no. Neither at that point thought a serious disagreement over having a baby (a big decision) was marriage ending. Maybe she didn't even care. She prior to that acted like she hadn't even thought about it since she was saying only you could give her that. Did you tell her that because of this forum? Or did you think of that on your own?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

DaringGreatly said:


> People with strong 25 year marriages generally don't think in those terms.
> I hope they work it out so she can come to terms with her situation and they go on to have another awesome 25 years.


Speak for yourself, I’ve been sharing sex with my wife very frequently through a bit over 26 years now (been married 23*½ *years). Yet if my wife turned the sex tap off to manipulate me or punish me for more than a week. I would have no hesitation in seeking sex elsewhere to satisfy my sexual wants (in lieu of her withholding).


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I feel stuck. I hear some people saying I’m being too passive, that I need to be more assertive, stop accepting this behavior. Then others are saying I’m not being considerate, compassionate, and understanding enough.


The crux of the matter is not if you are being passive and/or dismissive, or if she is being emotional and a brat punishing you. The crux is YOU not wanting a baby at this stage in your life. Not one, not your wife, not some stranger in the internet, no some counselor can force you to procreate one. Its your damned right to reject no wanting a baby (if that's what you want). 

I can guarantee you 1000% that had you come to this forum condemning your wife because YOU wanted her to bear you a child and she said no, YOU WOULD BE CRUXIFIED as an abuser, an asshole that have no right to demand that from his wife. Take this to the bank my friend, because how DARE YOU to impose on her reproductive rights.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I'm just gonna say, @Anastasia6 has been married a long time and has a very secure, loving, and lasting relationship with her husband. You're here because you're having a problem with your wife, and here you have an experienced woman giving you advice on how to deal with this. Might be a good idea, instead of threatening to leave her or playing nasty tit-for-tat power games to prove you're "the man," to listen to someone who has already achieved what you're trying to achieve: a long and happy marriage.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I think I’ve continued to fulfill all of my responsibilities to my wife over the past 3 months. In no way do I think this is all about me. I’ve even said if us staying together means one of us has to completely give in, if we can’t come to a mutual understanding of how to live forward that is equally satisfying to both, I’ll take the hit. I wouldn’t be doing it to keep my penis wet.
> 
> A few months ago I would have laughed at marriage counseling. I’d be willing to do it now. Somehow I think she’ll only find the suggestion of getting counseling for herself to be an insult but I think she is maybe dealing with deeper feelings than just baby fever and whether she gets upset at me for suggesting she talk to somebody or not I’d rather know I at least encouraged her to do it.


What do you consider your duties? Cause money is one thing. But the most important thing my husband does for me is be my best friend. My whole world. My sounding board.

You've admitted that you've been dismissive and also aloof acting like you don't want sex with her. 

I'd like to point out. I in no way think you are a bad guy. I think you seem like a mostly loving husband. Many time though what we think people want or need isn't the same as what they want or need. 

For instance most kids would rather have time with their father than the money or toy they could buy when their dad works overtime so they can have everything..... they want time and you can't buy that.

It sounds real good on a forum to say you want to stay married and if that means having a baby then you'll have one. But she doesn't know that. My other posts have covered things she's seen. 

She's caught up in this struggle right now. Some I think internally and some with you. You admit you'd rather be married than 'win' but you are showing her more you'd rather win that be married. Measure each step with which will help my marriage?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I think I’ve continued to fulfill all of my responsibilities to my wife over the past 3 months. In no way do I think this is all about me. I’ve even said if us staying together means one of us has to completely give in, if we can’t come to a mutual understanding of how to live forward that is equally satisfying to both, I’ll take the hit. I wouldn’t be doing it to keep my penis wet.
> 
> A few months ago I would have laughed at marriage counseling. I’d be willing to do it now. Somehow I think she’ll only find the suggestion of getting counseling for herself to be an insult but I think she is maybe dealing with deeper feelings than just baby fever and whether she gets upset at me for suggesting she talk to somebody or not I’d rather know I at least encouraged her to do it.


This last paragraph I absolutely agree with. I don't think she's ready to hear that she might be acting unreasonably. And that leads me to think she will continue to blame you, which means she will continue to punish you by withholding.

So the question then is, how long before you tell her that she's eroding your love for her?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> What do you consider your duties? Cause money is one thing. But the most important thing my husband does for me is be my best friend. My whole world. My sounding board.
> 
> You've admitted that you've been dismissive and also aloof acting like you don't want sex with her.
> 
> ...


So you expect him to be patient, forgiving of being punished for no crime, celibate, magnanimous, thoughtful, compassionate, empathetic, giving, work on his communication, and basically be better than perfect——— yet are apathetic regarding her emotional abuse, refusal to communicate, taunting, manipulation, selfishness, and basically treating him like garbage. Is there any way in you mind you could ever say a woman is ever wrong and deserves less than God-like treatment?


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Giving sex to each other makes me feel like we’re united as a team no matter what we’re arguing about outside of the bedroom.


It takes two to be a team. Even when you are trying to be a team player and talk to her, she is refusing.

Other posters telling you to:


Anastasia6 said:


> Measure each step with which will help my marriage?


and they are the same posters refusing to hold her accoutable. How is she helping her marriage with her actions? She started this. She started the "punishment". She refuses to discuss. Give me a break.... this woman is the problem, not him.

You need to call her on this stuff. I honestly think some unusual behavior on your part is what is going to open her eyes.

So far, you have just tried to grin and bear it, and she keeps raising the ante and not allowing normal communication that would resolve it.

This is why you should just say:

"This is absurd, your behavior is childish"

"Refusing to discuss a major topic, also childish"

"Punishing me and withholding love, teasing me and laughing about it, down right arrogant and mean"

"This is not how adults, especially spouses, come to a resolution on a point of contention"

Then you should pack up a bag and leave.

If she asks you where you are going.... "somewhere else".

If she asks when you will be back.... "after you start acting like an adult".

Seriously, you are handling this poorly. She is waging war against you (and your relationship), not allowing you to take the steps that would fix it (like discussing it like adults), and you are just hanging around asleep at the wheel.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> So you expect him to be patient, forgiving of being punished for no crime, celibate, magnanimous, thoughtful, compassionate, empathetic, giving, work on his communication, and basically be better than perfect——— yet are apathetic regarding her emotional abuse, refusal to communicate, taunting, manipulation, selfishness, and basically treating him like garbage. Is there any way in you mind you could ever say a woman is ever wrong and deserves less than God-like treatment?


OP - TAM Tip:

There are some posters that beat the same drum on every thread. They side with their own sex only (both males and females), which in general isn't helpful.

Be wary of advice that they wouldn't apply to the opposite sex.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> So you expect him to be patient, forgiving of being punished for no crime, celibate, magnanimous, thoughtful, compassionate, empathetic, giving, work on his communication, and basically be better than perfect——— yet are apathetic regarding her emotional abuse, refusal to communicate, taunting, manipulation, selfishness, and basically treating him like garbage. Is there any way in you mind you could ever say a woman is ever wrong and deserves less than God-like treatment?


My gosh. I can easily say she is wrong. I don't expect him to be like this forever. I'm trying to get them to a point of open communication. People hear better when you admit what you did wrong. They are more apt to self reflect and see their own faults than if someone points them out.

But hey I'm sure if he follows the advise on this board and threaten her with divorce if she doesn't start the sex and she doesn't apologize then that will work out well for him. I'm sure threatening to go out tonight and find someone else will improve their marriage. I'm sure that saying go find another husband will make her want to stay forever with no resentment.

How is him telling her pretty much what he's said on this board treating her like god?
How is admitting your own faults saying someone else is perfect?
Notice I also haven't told him to give her a baby.

I'm not interested in him doing anything he doesn't want to do. OP has said he recognizes some of the mis-steps he's done. OP has said he wants to remain married. OP has said it's been a great marriage and that he wants to stay married. OP has asked what he should do? He even indicated that some of the post let him see a female perspective. So I gave him one. I answer the question he asked with the sole purpose of helping him heal his marriage. I didn't say prostrate yourself. I didn't say give her a baby.

So why are you attacking me? 

@CoffeeandTV this is why I don't like posting. I thought you wanted an opinion if none of that rings a bell just ignore it. I will stop posting on your thread. I'm not trying to indicate you are the only one that has made mistake. Your wife I"m certain is caught up in her own struggle and isn't thinking about how this effects the marriage either. I believe you two have to get to a point of communication. You asked how you do that. Well you just talk. Focus on your misteps and how you want to move forward. Focus on the relationship. Focus on spending time together. Focus on finding commonalities. I have never understood 'fighting' she did this so I'll do that. You might 'win' but at what cost?


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Anastasia6 said:


> You asked how you do that. Well you just talk


She refuses to discuss. So then what does he do?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

re16 said:


> She refuses to discuss. So then what does he do?


@Anastasia6 just posted that she isn't posting anymore cause people like you and Evinrude don't think she should. You tell OP to ignore her. Now you want her to answer your questions? After you've told the OP that she can't be trusted and lied and said she was defending his wife?



re16 said:


> Be wary of advice that they wouldn't apply to the opposite sex.


Self awareness level = 0


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

I don’t know, I think women have a lot to offer, advice-wise, when you’re dealing with a situation involving a woman in the first place. Maybe even more so when it’s a situation like what I’m dealing with right now. But men can provide worthwhile advice too. Sometimes the different perspective are needed. I’m not sure that going fully toward one end of the advice spectrum I’m getting here is what will work best for me but there may just be bits and pieces from both sides that, all together, I can use to try to improve the situation.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> OP you asked for suggestion on what to say. You say you want a conversation but she's refusing. So here's my thoughts.
> 
> Let's start with some of the 'advice' you've been given. No person is perfect no marriage is perfect. Many times the advice is well she's not having sex tell her you are going to go out and get it somewhere else. It's a great sound bite but would do lasting damage. She's being childish. Yes she is but based on your description of the previous 25 years it's because you didn't take her seriously and she thought she could get her way and she isn't thinking rationally. You desire to be childish back, and in a way you have. You won't play with me then I don't want to play with you.
> 
> ...


My main concern wasn’t the sex or my penis. Yes, I was upset about 5 times in 3 months because she wanted to withhold it as a punishment. Maybe at the time I created the thread I was feeling especially frustrated by that part of the situation. I think I’ve shown through my subsequent posts that my penis is not my main concern. Maybe I haven’t and that is still the impression I’m giving. I do really care about whether my wife resents me over this forever. I care about her happiness. I want us to get back to how we used to be, not just in regard to sex.

Everything you said is great, very eloquent, heartfelt, and thought out. I generally try to be very sensitive to her, understanding, patient, and can admit when I’m wrong most of the time, but there are also times when I’m in the moment emotionally and I can’t always think of the most eloquent, kindhearted, and balanced thinGS to say. There was no way with the way I felt last night that I was going to come up with everything you typed out. I appreciate it and you’ve made some very good points.

I’m not some sort of macho gruff man who can’t be emotionally open with her. I feel that emotionally I’m generally always there for her. I think I’m usually very understanding, I don’t mind talking things out for ages if that’s what she wants to do. I’m not afraid to cry either if it gets that intense. Most of the time we aren’t dealing with things like what we’re going through right now. Nothing like this, 3 months of hostility mainly coming from her direction, has ever happened before. After all of these years this is completely new for me. There have been much shorter disagreements, misunderstandings, and frustrations over the years and we’ve worked through them just fine. I didn’t handle this particular situation very well. I was blindsided by this sudden desire and request from her and by the whole sex withholding thing that was very out of character for her. My defenses went up. I wouldn’t even say it was about the sex but I felt a panic about all of the things I thought we had planned together and were in agreement on as far as our life together moving forward. I saw it all going up in smoke, everything I’ve been dreaming about for the past several years. Everything we’ve been talking about together. In that respect, I was selfish I guess. I did tell this to her.

I will try to handle the communication better moving forward. I have tried to get her to talk and she’s refusing thus far. I’ve not demanded she sit down and talk. I thought I was approaching it in a loving and caring way but maybe not in her eyes. Last night after she reminded me she’s still not having sex with me I could have just swallowed it, told her I was sorry, said all of the things you said. None of it even came to my mind. I just signed and rolled over because the frustration just prevented me from thinking of anything else to say.

I think the line about having sex with somebody tonight is a good one, but it doesn’t mean I’m planning to say that to her. I know there’s no way I’d actually do that so it’d be an empty threat anyway. It’d just be childish for me to say it because I’d just be trying to get a reaction, without having any plans to walk out the door if she said “ok, go!” I do think I’ve tried being loving and patient and maybe a little more of a hard line regarding some things might be worth a try, but that doesn’t have to include threats of divorce or sleeping with other people.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> My gosh. I can easily say she is wrong. I don't expect him to be like this forever. I'm trying to get them to a point of open communication. People hear better when you admit what you did wrong. They are more apt to self reflect and see their own faults than if someone points them out.
> 
> But hey I'm sure if he follows the advise on this board and threaten her with divorce if she doesn't start the sex and she doesn't apologize then that will work out well for him. I'm sure threatening to go out tonight and find someone else will improve their marriage. I'm sure that saying go find another husband will make her want to stay forever with no resentment.
> 
> ...


I’m not attacking. And I thought you had some good advice in your post before the quoted one. My gripe is that you go to “attacking” OP if you want to call it that for being all about sex, and from what I’ve seen, he has done everything imaginable to work this out with a person that just wants her way and punishes, taunts, stone walls, withholds intimacy, and whatever else she can think of to make him miserable until he gives her a 20 year commitment of his undivided effort and attention in a child. 

I thought your advice below had some merit, if it weren’t that he’s attempted this basically and she does nothing but shut him down and rub in his face that she’s not screwing him out if contempt.

So last night when she said I can feel you penis on my ass. You should have used that opportunity to talk with her. A good response would have been....
I am sure you can. I didn't come over and snuggle with you for sex. But I"m a man and I find you very attractive so being close to you and snuggling I get a hard on. I came over to try to comfort you. To try to figure out how our marriage can move forward. I hate seeing you sad and upset. I hate the space this has created in our relationship. I love you. We are a team. I love you so much and want you to be happy so the other day I stupidly said you could have a baby with another man. Because I want you to be happy and I don't want to stand in the way of that. But it killed me to say that. It killed me to think of you not being in my life. It kills me that I am sure I don't want a baby at this age and that you do.
Most importantly, until this issue came up I was loving life and so enjoying just being with you. You are enough. I don't need anything else in my life. You are what I want and I look forward to spending the decade or two with you. I want you to myself.

I want to apologize. At first I didn't think you were serious, and I didn't take it seriously. Then I was surprised and shocked because for me you are enough. I didn't understand why you wanted a baby. I still don't but I want to know. I want you to tell me. I want to listen. I am sorry we didn't sit down and have an open conversation earlier. 

Now we are in a place where most days I"m crawling the walls to be with you and you act like you could careless about my feelings. I feel like we are growing distant and I don't want that. I worry about resentment in our marriage. I love you and our marriage and I don't know how to get back to being us. I want to be with you the rest of my life.

Can you tell me where you see this going? Is there already too much resentment for you? If we don't talk, if we can't hug. If you won't let me comfort you, what can I do?”

It just appears like you’re saying he’s all at fault and she is this delicate flower that just needs coddling in spite of the fact that the guy has pretty much the whole time been trying to work this out with her.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

As a thought experiment, let's pretend that @CoffeeandTV waves the white flag, surrenders, tells his wife he is ready to father a child with her. Or to the contrary, she surrenders and says she is truly done with the idea of having a child. When the next inevitable issue arrives, like menopause or ED or major illness how will that be managed? I was recalling a lot of men on here complaining about how once a child arrived, the wife's interest in them disappeared. If she gets the child, how likely is it that the three months she is subjecting him to becomes forever? I mean why should she be intimate with him once she is pregnant? And she will have a series of excuses to last forever. Or to the contrary, she *doesn't *get the child she wants but resolves in her mind that when an opportunity arrives to get back at him she will.

It seems to me that win, lose, or draw they need to battle through this issue to a full and complete end whatever that is. Otherwise, it just gets fought again over something else. The only compromise possible is from the one willing to capitulate, that being @CoffeeandTV. She will have learned that withholding intimacy is a way to win any battle about anything and anytime. She will have been rewarded for abusing him, so he will need to expect abuse in the future when the inevitable problems arrive.

Honestly, I don't see how they arrive at a win-win, especially when one side has decided it is a grudge match to the death.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I kind of love this.
> 
> I feel stuck. I hear some people saying I’m being too passive, that I need to be more assertive, stop accepting this behavior. Then others are saying I’m not being considerate, compassionate, and understanding enough.
> 
> ...


I feel there is no way she is on birth control anymore. Because she's trying to get pregnant. She's trying to trick you in to have a full sex with her with the understanding it will lead to being pregnant and there's no way she would be going through all that if she was still on birth control because then it wouldn't work to get her pregnant. So I don't feel like you can have sex with her safely because I feel she is off birth control and probably has been for some time. I think you are going to have to put sex on hold because it is not safe to have sex with her.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I'm just gonna say, @Anastasia6 has been married a long time and has a very secure, loving, and lasting relationship with her husband. You're here because you're having a problem with your wife, and here you have an experienced woman giving you advice on how to deal with this. Might be a good idea, instead of threatening to leave her or playing nasty tit-for-tat power games to prove you're "the man," to listen to someone who has already achieved what you're trying to achieve: a long and happy marriage.


Except she's the one who should be apologizing and not him because he hasn't done anything to be sorry for.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> As a thought experiment, let's pretend that @CoffeeandTV waves the white flag, surrenders, tells his wife he is ready to father a child with her. Or to the contrary, she surrenders and says she is truly done with the idea of having a child. When the next inevitable issue arrives, like menopause or ED or major illness how will that be managed? I was recalling a lot of men on here complaining about how once a child arrived, the wife's interest in them disappeared. If she gets the child, how likely is it that the three months she is subjecting him to becomes forever? I mean why should she be intimate with him once she is pregnant? And she will have a series of excuses to last forever. Or to the contrary, she *doesn't *get the child she wants but resolves in her mind that when an opportunity arrives to get back at him she will.
> 
> It seems to me that win, lose, or draw they need to battle through this issue to a full and complete end whatever that is. Otherwise, it just gets fought again over something else. The only compromise possible is from the one willing to capitulate, that being @CoffeeandTV. She will have learned that withholding intimacy is a way to win any battle about anything and anytime. She will have been rewarded for abusing him, so he will need to expect abuse in the future when the inevitable problems arrive.
> 
> Honestly, I don't see how they arrive at a win-win, especially when one side has decided it is a grudge match to the death.


So divorce is the only option.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I think if he wants to have sex anytime soon, he needs to go get a vasectomy. Because she is not on birth control because she can't try to get pregnant and be on birth control at the same time and that's what she's doing.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So divorce is the only option.


I don't know. Where things are now, it is hard to see a lasting solution. Little amazing and sad after all they have been through over a quarter century. At this stage she isn't even interested in talking with him or having him close to her. So absent a change in her attitude what other result can there ultimately be? Irreconcilable differences?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> What do you consider your duties? Cause money is one thing. But the most important thing my husband does for me is be my best friend. My whole world. My sounding board.
> 
> You've admitted that you've been dismissive and also aloof acting like you don't want sex with her.
> 
> ...


While providing financially for my family and wife has always been a top priority of mine, it’s not everything. I’ve always tried to provide everything that my wife wanted and needed, whether it was financial stability, material items (she’s not materialistic and I’m not trying to insinuate that she is), my time, my attention, my companionship, my love and adoration. I’ve tried to do it all and sometimes I stumble in an area or two now and then.

I might have made some missteps with this situation but I don’t think I’ve been absolutely horrible either. She know I’m dedicated to her. She’s seen 25 years of me proving that to her.

If I tell her I’m ultimately willing to give her a baby she will not let that go. She’s never acted like this before but she does have a taken for being very stubborn when she wants to be. What reason will she have to try to take the time to understand my feelings and where I’m coming from, for us to try to move forward together in a way that we can both be happy and also without involving a baby, if she knows if I tell her ultimately if it comes down to it I’ll give her the baby? I feel like that’ll just give her incentive to dig in deeper, to start giving ME ultimatums because she knows that I’ll cave.

I’m willing to tell her that I will listen to her feelings and reasoning and that I will try to keep an open mind about it - that we can discuss it but to please not get her hopes up that it means I’m going to say yes. I’ll expect her to do the same for me though.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> I don't know. Where things are now, it is hard to see a lasting solution. Little amazing and sad after all they have been through over a quarter century. At this stage she isn't even interested in talking with him or having him close to her. So absent a change in her attitude what other result can there ultimately be? Irreconcilable differences?


 If your wife has a problem, dump her and find a new wife. Brilliant.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> While providing financially for my family and wife has always been a top priority of mine, it’s not everything. I’ve always tried to provide everything that my wife wanted and needed, whether it was financial stability, material items (she’s not materialistic and I’m not trying to insinuate that she is), my time, my attention, my companionship, my love and adoration. I’ve tried to do it all and sometimes I stumble in an area or two now and then.
> 
> I might have made some missteps with this situation but I don’t think I’ve been absolutely horrible either. She know I’m dedicated to her. She’s seen 25 years of me proving that to her.
> 
> ...


I hope you manage to work it out, it will be so sad if you cant. Neither of you is wrong or right. Wanting a baby isn't wrong nor is not wanting one. Its just sad that this wasn't addressed 10 years ago when you were more likely to both agree.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Since she won’t talk… sit her down and tell her YOU need to talk - she can listen.
Tell her you aren’t FORCING her to talk but you have some things you NEED to voice your feelings about!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If your wife has a problem, dump her and find a new wife. Brilliant.


Yes, its a horrible attitude to have or advise others to do.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If your wife has a problem, dump her and find a new wife. Brilliant.


I really resent you accusing me of Red Pill. I guess it is impossible to have a discussion without calling people disgusting names? 

For your info I have been happily married longer than YOU have been alive.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Yes, its a horrible attitude to have or advise others to do.


The OP already told his wife to get another man to sire her child on the advice of these guys.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> I really resent you accusing me of Red Pill. I guess it is impossible to have a discussion without calling people disgusting names?
> 
> For your info I have been happily married longer than YOU have been alive.


Never mind. If we’re to the point where you’re lying about what I posted then there’s no point. I hope the OP doesn’t listen to your terrible advice but that’s up to him.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Rob_1 said:


> The crux of the matter is not if you are being passive and/or dismissive, or if she is being emotional and a brat punishing you. The crux is YOU not wanting a baby at this stage in your life. Not one, not your wife, not some stranger in the internet, no some counselor can force you to procreate one. Its your damned right to reject no wanting a baby (if that's what you want).
> 
> I can guarantee you 1000% that had you come to this forum condemning your wife because YOU wanted her to bear you a child and she said no, YOU WOULD BE CRUXIFIED as an abuser, an asshole that have no right to demand that from his wife. Take this to the bank my friend, because how DARE YOU to impose on her reproductive rights.


Oh please. This isn't about gender.

Thread for reference:









Need your opinion on what to do next


When a wife, or any spouse, says I love you but I'm not in love with you it always means you've lost more than just that initial spark. It means you've lost what makes a marriage a marriage and the relationship has changed to a friendship and roommate arrangement. You can love and deeply care...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





Check my response to that woman.

_"Your husband have had to come to terms with your infidelity in 1st year of your marriage (you have admitted this in a post), and you continued to refuse to have children with him for one reason after another in subsequent years. You seem to have created a long list of "requirements for HIM to meet" for you to consider having children with him in the course of your relationship. You desired a comfortable lifestyle with a beautiful house and various amenities [before] you would consider having children with your husband. Now that these needs are met, you have complaints about your husband's attitude in the present. Your husband have started to *resent* you for denying him Fatherhood in marriage. This much is apparent in his outbursts lately. You have further admitted that you do NOT love your husband." _

I was empathetic towards her husband.

I am operating by the same principle in this thread.

Marriage isn't just about paying bills and having sex with your partner. It is about creating a FAMILY UNIT with your partner.

If a partner wants to have a child but the other refuses - to where this impasse can lead both to? CONFLICT and possible dissolution of marriage. This is VERY SERIOUS matter and issue.

OP was laughing at his wife when she told him that she wants to have another baby. He is NOT laughing now. Right?

In his own words: _"Same things goes for the sex issue. At first, I thought she’d go a week or maybe two and that’d be it. I laughed when she first said “no sex!” I’m not laughing now. I just don’t really know what to do."_

I wanted him to realize that he have taken his wife for granted and his approach to the ongoing conflict situation is premature and childish.









Wife intentionally withholding sex for 3 months


My thoughts on why she’s actually allowed sex the 5 times she has? Either she was horny enough that she caved in or she thought that bringing the baby topic up mid-sex would change my response. She generally has a pretty high sex drive, especially after she decided about 4 years ago to focus on...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





Good to see him realizing his mistakes now.

I have also given him sufficient pointers for how to move forward in his situation.

There is no EASY FIX to this situation in view of how it was mishandled early on. This issue will TAKE TIME to FIX. OP needs to be patient, learn from his mistakes and pay close attention to valuable advice and pointers.

Much thanks to @Anastasia6 as well.

You were very rude to me in this thread actually. You questioned my integrity in this thread. My integrity is SOLID.

Thank you.


----------



## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Beach123 said:


> Since she won’t talk… sit her down and tell her YOU need to talk - she can listen.
> Tell her you aren’t FORCING her to talk but you have some things you NEED to voice your feelings about!


How about "the next conversation I have with you will be about your feelings, and my feelings, about the pros and cons of having a child in the near future".

And then just don't talk until that conversation starts, be prepared to wait it out.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

re16 said:


> How about "the next conversation I have with you will be about your feelings, and my feelings, about the pros and cons of having a child in the near future".
> 
> And then just don't talk until that conversation starts, be prepared to wait it out.


This isn’t bad. At least there’s a perfunctory willingness to sit there while she explains herself. She doesn’t deserve a lot of kindness after her recent behavior.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

I think on reason I’ve maybe not made the best moves in this situation is that I’m not used to being able to provide her with what she wants and needs. That is normally what I do, gladly. That is my role and I enjoy it. It’s killing me to feel helpless and to not be able to just easily solve the problem. Sure, I could solve it on a technical level. Normally I’m not in situations where whatever she needs or wants is something I feel so opposed to. I’ve not even voiced that to her and I probably should.

Maybe I’ve been too stubborn on my end to even consider really having a kid and how some of the things we planned on together could still be feasible. Maybe I’ve been just as resolute in my own way of thinking as she’s been.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Your wife's behavior is awful, there is no arguing that. You don't need to excuse her behavior but I do think you need to apologize to her, if you haven't already. You have admitted (to us at least) that you were dismissive of how she was feeling, so own up to that. I'm shocked you have let this fight go on for three months, both trying to win, yet you claim this is a first - it just doesn't add up. Regardless, this is something that you should be dealing with together - not fighting until one of you win. At what cost? There is no winning with something like this. Someone _will _be hurt, and you should be handling that together. 

My situation is different so, grain of salt. I have 6 kids and I'm so done. My wife spent most of the last pregnancy saying she was done, would never do pregnancy again, to fix the botched vasectomy pronto, etc. Yet, now that being "done" is a quickly approaching/already arrived date, she has spent the last 19 days bawling about it every day (sometimes for hours) and now doesn't want me to have the vasectomy fixed. Even IF we planned on more (I don't), we'd have to wait a while for medical and sanity reasons (three of my kids are under age 2) and would both be pushing 40 by then. I have no desire to have babies in my 40's, she probably wouldn't be able to conceive by then anyway, and I'm not sure I could at this point either, and I have no desire to visit the fertility clinic again and head down that path again. So either way, we're done. 

My initial response was mostly shutting the conversation down before it began with "we're not having more!". It was an "end of story" attitude or bringing up reasons why we can't/won't. That's not what she needs to hear though. Granted, she's not trying to change my mind about another baby. She knows we're/I'm done, but she's having a hard time accepting that and feeling all sorts of things. She just wants me to hear her and try to understand why she feels the way she does - which honestly, I don't really. Hormones can be a *****. Doesn't necessarily matter how many kids a woman has. 

Your wife wants more than a listening ear, she wants a compliant husband, but a listening ear is what you can offer her right now. That, and an apology for the way you dismissed her feelings and let this drag on for so long. Yes, she has definitely contributed and again, it doesn't mean you should excuse her behavior. You also shouldn't continue to ignore it though. It has been going on for months... It's time to tell her acting like this is not acceptable, it's not helpful, it's hurting the marriage (that doesn't mean you have to make empty threats), and it needs to stop. You can't continue like this. So what is something reasonable that she needs to work on this issue? What can the two of you do to work on the problem? That's a good time to bring up therapy. 

Also, you would be a fool to have unprotected sex with her right now - and the pull out method is not reliable. I have a three week old who is the result of me hardly "entering", not finishing, and with a very low sperm count after a crappy vasectomy. So don't be a dumbass. Wrap. It. Up. If your wife balks at that and you not trusting her, ask her why should you trust her when you don't even recognize who she is anymore.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

@CoffeeandTV, it is very likely that your wife is experiencing perimenopause. It would be a good idea for her to discuss this with her gynecologist. It's unfortunate that so many women are not aware of the hormonal changes in their bodies and the psychological impact.
Of course your wife will have zero memory of pregnancy, childbirth and the demands of an infant. She was only 16 when she had her only child. Think about that for a minute. 
I was 36 when I had my last child and I still got soppy for one every time I held a baby in my forties. It.is.not.real.
Perimenopause is real.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I think on reason I’ve maybe not made the best moves in this situation is that I’m not used to being able to provide her with what she wants and needs. That is normally what I do, gladly. That is my role and I enjoy it. It’s killing me to feel helpless and to not be able to just easily solve the problem. Sure, I could solve it on a technical level. Normally I’m not in situations where whatever she needs or wants is something I feel so opposed to. I’ve not even voiced that to her and I probably should.
> 
> Maybe I’ve been too stubborn on my end to even consider really having a kid and how some of the things we planned on together could still be feasible. Maybe I’ve been just as resolute in my own way of thinking as she’s been.


Your wife is stonewalling you, won’t even talk about it. Taunting you by withholding sex and smiling about it for months, and is expecting you to want have a newborn in your 40’s because she’s jealous of her own son’s baby and wants one of her own although she’s had a willing husband partner for 24 years— only now deciding that he’s just past the baby wanting stage of life like every other 40 something year old dad. 

Yeah, you’re being a real jerk.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

She was drunk and in bed when I got home so screw anything productive happening tonight. She never gets drunk.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Cynthia said:


> I agree. Taunting and teasing your spouse is terrible She openly admitted that she is punishing him. This is outright abuse.
> 
> Normally, I'd say that she needs empathy and comfort, but she is behaving horribly. This is unconscionable behavior. To have feelings is one thing. To take it out on another person by being cruel is quite another. She is tearing her marriage down. Why on earth would anyone want to procreate with someone who treats them like this?
> 
> ...


I disagree; his wife is basically grieving a perceived loss. That it’s not rational to everyone here isn’t relevant; to her, it’s very real. This is not something you can shake somebody out of. It’s possible it’s going to take some time to heal from this. Two years down the road, she might not recognize this version of herself. But for now, today, she feels she’s missing out on raising a child as an adult. An experience she never had. She may even feel like she was punished for having a kid in high school, basically never had a choice. And now, she has a choice, but it’s too late.

Her acting out is dangerous to the relationship though and therapy is warranted.


----------



## mainesqueeze (Nov 22, 2013)

Honestly, it sounds like she’s in some sort of crisis. Just not thinking clearly at all. She should be throwing her love and support behind your son and his new family; not trying to start all over again.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

30 pages of a wife withholding sex because she wants something and a husband not being willing to take action? Nothing to see here…I’ll pass.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

She’s really lost it.
I’d be taking her in for an evaluation asap.

And you considering giving her what she wants just because you have always given her what she wants is just…good god, adding to the way she is a spoiled brat.

Stop second guessing yourself. Be a bit stronger.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> 30 pages of a wife withholding sex because she wants something and a husband not being willing to take action? Nothing to see here…I’ll pass.


Todays husband’s are so lame and feminized it ridiculous


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Maybe I’ve been just as resolute in my own way of thinking as she’s been.


You've been ok with discussing and it and actively trying. @Evinrude58 is right, the wife is stonewalling.

There is a major difference between your tact and hers.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I think on reason I’ve maybe not made the best moves in this situation is that I’m not used to being able to provide her with what she wants and needs. That is normally what I do, gladly. That is my role and I enjoy it. It’s killing me to feel helpless and to not be able to just easily solve the problem. Sure, I could solve it on a technical level. Normally I’m not in situations where whatever she needs or wants is something I feel so opposed to. I’ve not even voiced that to her and I probably should.


Bro,

Adopt following strategy:

Step # 1: You push for talks with your wife.
Escalation step # 1: Request your MIL to facilitate talks between you and your wife.
Escalation step # 2: Suggest and push for "marital counseling" to your wife.

Your MIL seems to understand your situation. You can reach out to her to facilitate talks between you and your wife. Do NOT pit your MIL against her daughter (your wife); this can backfire on you. Facilitate is the keyword here.

Suggest 'marital counseling' to your wife when she is on talking terms with you again.



CoffeeandTV said:


> Maybe I’ve been too stubborn on my end to even consider really having a kid and how some of the things we planned on together could still be feasible. Maybe I’ve been just as resolute in my own way of thinking as she’s been.


Yes! Keep your options (open). Do NOT rule out the possibility of a baby with your wife [on your own]. Your situation is entirely different now. Your wife is NOT an inexperienced teen _*but*_ a well-educated woman and an experienced mother in the present. She *doesn't* need LECTURES from others about motherhood and parenting at this point in her life.

Just let your wife know that you are willing to discuss all possibilities with her but she needs to behave LIKE A WIFE as well. Your INTENT should be to have heart-to-heart conversations with your wife about having another baby and see where these talks lead to. Express your concerns but proceed with caution and go with the flow.

You can have vacations and adult-only moments with your wife even if you have another baby with her. You can have a mutually beneficial arrangement with your son and DIL in this matter.

Above all, you need to be PATIENT with your wife. This will be your true display of STRENGTH in this difficult time in your life.


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## mmtrimble65 (5 mo ago)

Andy1001 said:


> She’s using sex as a weapon. That’s a deal breaker to me.


 Kind of harsh


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## mmtrimble65 (5 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> I'd not want to stay married to a person who would intentionally withhold to deliberately punish like that.
> 
> Now you know her true nature, and it's not love.


Harsh !


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## mmtrimble65 (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Omg. I’m sorry to be rude but she is being a nutter butter.
> 
> Seriously, sounds a little mid-life crisis-y. A new baby will not make her feel young. I had mine at 37 and I can tell you without question it makes you feel OLD.
> 
> ...


Counseling. There are reasons for everything and to understand another is a heads up respectful move.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

re16 said:


> You've been ok with discussing and it and actively trying. @Evinrude58 is right, the wife is stonewalling.
> 
> There is a major difference between your tact and hers.


Coffee is right. She's avoiding because she knows she's wrong.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> The OP already told his wife to get another man to sire her child on the advice of these guys.


no he did not.

he acknowledged that she would be able to get someone else if she chose to leave him over this.

that is different than telling he to bug off and get a baby elsewhere.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

mmtrimble65 said:


> Counseling. There are reasons for everything and to understand another is a heads up respectful move.


Totally agree. After 25 years, she started acted crazy 3 months ago. Seems inane to throw all that away over ego. You can condemn the behavior without condemning the person entirely.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

So she is now drunk in bed. What a mess. I don't think this is about having a baby anymore. The baby is part of it I think but I feel she has deeper/darker issues going on. Once she has sobered up talk to her asap and ask her wtf is going on (in a loving way of course). Could she have been having a manic episode and now depressed coming down from the mania? 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She was drunk and in bed when I got home so screw anything productive happening tonight. She never gets drunk.


When are you going to acknowledge that there is something more than a disagreement over whether to have another baby or not going on here.

There is something more serious going on with her.

she is having some kind of crises or breakdown or something. She needs some kind of professional assessment.

she is displaying behavior that is way out of the ordinary for her and emotional swings disproportionate to the situation.

It may be vodka tonight but don’t come home and find her with an empty bottle of pills tomorrow or have her walking out of work and getting into the car in the middle of the day and driving off across the country where the next time anyone hears anything from her is her posting a picture on Facebook of her sitting on a mountain ledge with her legs dangling out into space ( don’t laugh, I’m referencing a gal I know that did exactly that)

she’s getting nuttier and more extreme each day. What does she need to do and at what point will you take action?

….and I don’t mean knocking her up. Do NOT do that because she is showing troubling behavior.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If your wife has a problem, dump her and find a new wife. Brilliant.


No, it's if your wife has a problem, is punishing you for it, and refuses to have a sit down with you, then you divorce. 

Texasmom, we all have different experiences. I can tell you, from experience, that this is likely to be a protracted issue and three months is just the beginning. Further, it's possible his wife will view his eventual capitulation as validation of her being right, not as a sacrifice made by him for her happiness.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

DTO said:


> No, it's if your wife has a problem, is punishing you for it, and refuses to have a sit down with you, then you divorce.
> 
> Texasmom, we all have different experiences. I can tell you, from experience, that this is likely to be a protracted issue and three months is just the beginning. Further, it's possible his wife will view his eventual capitulation as validation of her being right, not as a sacrifice made by him for her happiness.


OP's hardline stance and dismissive attitude have led him to his current situation. He have admitted as much. He have also pointed out that his woman had been a better wife than many woman can claim to be.

Some members here tend to see the worst in people. This is not helpful.

Judgement should be fair and impartial.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

harperlee said:


> @CoffeeandTV, it is very likely that your wife is experiencing perimenopause. It would be a good idea for her to discuss this with her gynecologist. It's unfortunate that so many women are not aware of the hormonal changes in their bodies and the psychological impact.
> Of course your wife will have zero memory of pregnancy, childbirth and the demands of an infant. She was only 16 when she had her only child. Think about that for a minute.
> I was 36 when I had my last child and I still got soppy for one every time I held a baby in my forties. It.is.not.real.
> Perimenopause is real.





RebuildingMe said:


> 30 pages of a wife withholding sex because she wants something and a husband not being willing to take action? Nothing to see here…I’ll pass.


Lol.



oldshirt said:


> no he did not.
> he acknowledged that she would be able to get someone else if she chose to leave him over this.
> that is different than telling he to bug off and get a baby elsewhere.


You do not know women. She heard, if you want a baby, get another man. If you can't understand how dismissive that is, then you are on your own.



oldshirt said:


> When are you going to acknowledge that there is something more than a disagreement over whether to have another baby or not going on here.
> 
> There is something more serious going on with her.
> 
> ...


See my above quote. Perhaps I am on ignore, which is fine. There are indeed reasons for a proper medical evaluation.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DTO said:


> No, it's if your wife has a problem, is punishing you for it, and refuses to have a sit down with you, then you divorce.
> 
> Texasmom, we all have different experiences. I can tell you, from experience, that this is likely to be a protracted issue and three months is just the beginning. Further, it's possible his wife will view his eventual capitulation as validation of her being right, not as a sacrifice made by him for her happiness.


I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’ve never once, other poster’s continual false claims to the contrary, said her behavior was acceptable. It’s juvenile and she should be ashamed. I’ve never said he should agree to a baby, I don’t think he should. What I said was to at least try to get her into counseling. I said have a stern conversation with her, explain the damage she’s doing and work on it together instead of tossing her into the trash. I’ve also admitted that as a woman, my perspective is different and while I can’t defend what she’s done or doing I can understand how crazy a mid life crisis can make you. The OP said he didn’t want to toss her in the trash, so I gave him a woman’s perspective on ways to help her. 

No matter what he decides to do, he may end up divorced. We’ve established that would be great for him because he can start over with a sweet young thing while she is left alone forever, no skin off his nose. There is only one way her life isn’t ruined by this and that’s if he gives her another chance. I hate to see a woman at 40, facing 40 more years all alone, her child and grandchild turned against her, held in contempt by everyone, because she had a mental breakdown and it was too much of an ego hit to try to help her. 

I do not believe that he is facing a binary choice of total capitulation or divorce. Perhaps I am wrong. But I am entitled to an opinion just as you are entitled to yours.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Coffee is right. She's avoiding because she knows she's wrong.


That’s why she won’t consider coubseling


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

harperlee said:


> Lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I do agree with that.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’ve never once, other poster’s continual false claims to the contrary, said her behavior was acceptable. It’s juvenile and she should be ashamed. I’ve never said he should agree to a baby, I don’t think he should. What I said was to at least try to get her into counseling. I said have a stern conversation with her, explain the damage she’s doing and work on it together instead of tossing her into the trash. I’ve also admitted that as a woman, my perspective is different and while I can’t defend what she’s done or doing I can understand how crazy a mid life crisis can make you. The OP said he didn’t want to toss her in the trash, so I gave him a woman’s perspective on ways to help her.
> 
> No matter what he decides to do, he may end up divorced. We’ve established that would be great for him because he can start over with a sweet young thing while she is left alone forever, no skin off his nose. There is only one way her life isn’t ruined by this and that’s if he gives her another chance. I hate to see a woman at 40, facing 40 more years all alone, her child and grandchild turned against her, held in contempt by everyone, because she had a mental breakdown and it was too much of an ego hit to try to help her.
> 
> I do not believe that he is facing a binary choice of total capitulation or divorce. Perhaps I am wrong. But I am entitled to an opinion just as you are entitled to yours.


I agree with what you have, but I think we can see that unless his wife sees the light, he’s going to capitulate . He will love the baby when it comes. But will his wife now take even more advantage of him and mistreat him even worse, knowing how she has him in a short leash? Will he resent not having and time alone with his wife taking trips like he rightly dreamed of, without her doing just as he says she’d do, worrying about the child and cutting the trip short?

I think this Pandora’s box is going to snowball even more and I agree with everyone that he is going to need a real genius of a therapist to help his wife and such. I just doubt in the effectiveness of that.

The truth is that most likely, We are going to see a coffee dad. Sadly, I don’t think that will be able to shut the box. He’s in for a wild ride no matter what he does.

OP, you say your wife has been awesome for 25 years. Are you forgetting events of the past?
The emotional abuse, manipulation, getting drunk and acting out, stonewalling you, ignoring your feelings, disrespecting you, disregarding your efforts to talk…….. this is not something that usually “pops up” out if the blue unless a brain health problem is arising.

It does seem more and more like your wife is having a psychological break.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> I agree with what you have, but I think we can see that unless his wife sees the light, he’s going to capitulate . He will love the baby when it comes. But will his wife now take even more advantage of him and mistreat him even worse, knowing how she has him in a short leash? Will he resent not having and time alone with his wife taking trips like he rightly dreamed of, without her doing just as he says she’d do, worrying about the child and cutting the trip short?
> 
> I think this Pandora’s box is going to snowball even more and I agree with everyone that he is going to need a real genius of a therapist to help his wife and such. I just doubt in the effectiveness of that.
> 
> ...


I guess I’m a little more optimistic about people than to think she would WANT to be so manipulative and horrible as that. I feel like your post assumes that she is, at her core, a horrible person. While she has certainly displayed some nasty behavior that justifies skepticism about her character, and while the OP does seem to be a little blinded by her apparently very attractive body (good for her) due to her recent juvenile withholding, I want to believe better of people than that. I want to believe that he will have that serious talk with her, she will come around and they’ll be ok. Maybe I want there to be nice people because I want to have a little hope in humanity.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’ve never once, other poster’s continual false claims to the contrary, said her behavior was acceptable. It’s juvenile and she should be ashamed. I’ve never said he should agree to a baby, I don’t think he should. What I said was to at least try to get her into counseling. I said have a stern conversation with her, explain the damage she’s doing and work on it together instead of tossing her into the trash. I’ve also admitted that as a woman, my perspective is different and while I can’t defend what she’s done or doing I can understand how crazy a mid life crisis can make you. The OP said he didn’t want to toss her in the trash, so I gave him a woman’s perspective on ways to help her.
> 
> No matter what he decides to do, he may end up divorced. We’ve established that would be great for him because he can start over with a sweet young thing while she is left alone forever, no skin off his nose. There is only one way her life isn’t ruined by this and that’s if he gives her another chance. I hate to see a woman at 40, facing 40 more years all alone, her child and grandchild turned against her, held in contempt by everyone, because she had a mental breakdown and it was too much of an ego hit to try to help her.
> 
> I do not believe that he is facing a binary choice of total capitulation or divorce. Perhaps I am wrong. But I am entitled to an opinion just as you are entitled to yours.


Divorce would not be great for me. I’d be devastated by that. I have no interest in finding a “hot young thing.” But I do get what you’re trying to say.

If my wife and I ever found ourselves no longer married to each other, which I don’t think will ever happen, she wouldn’t be doomed to life all alone. She’s hot. She has a better body than many women much younger and a beautiful face too. Not to mention that if we disregard the past few months she’s normally a ton of fun to be with and smart and funny too. So no she would not be a sad lonely frumpy middle aged woman sitting at home with her cats. She could leave me and find somebody new, easily. But that’s the beside the point.

I tried to talk to her tonight, I tried to just be there to comfort her and listen to her. I tried to take care of her, and I’m not talking sexually. Her behavior….I got so frustrated I almost had to just leave the house for a while. Instead I went into the garage and cried and that’s where I still am. Yep that’s how pathetic I am. I just don’t know how to help her. She said she’s so sad, shes so sad and doesn’t want to talk to me.

It’s not as if we’ve never had fights or disagreements but nothing like this. I’d actually prefer for her to at least go back to the sexual teasing since she seemed to get some sort of fun and enjoyment out of that! Something seems really broken since yesterday.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If your wife has a problem, dump her and find a new wife. Brilliant.


Fundamentally, I think the OPs wife is exhibiting poor character here. It goes beyond a disagreement over family size to the basic issue that she's willing to harm her husband and marriage.

Honestly, I'm not sure I would have saving the marriage as the priority. But that is the OP's choice so my advice may not apply. Personally, I would not boot her out (assuming this is the first time she's done this). But I would:

* Make it clear a healthy sex life is an essential part of the marriage and her withholding is bad, because at some point it's going to affect his attraction to her.

* Set a firm boundary that these types of poor behaviors are unacceptable. Firm consequences will follow for doing it again.

This last one is key. My ex had berating me with company present. I set a boundary and the next time I gave her a break from the marriage until she asked to reunite. There was no third offense.

She should feel safe and valued while behaving appropriately. She should not feel safe and valued when she's not. That is some of Glover's best advice.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

[


Evinrude58 said:


> OP, you say your wife has been awesome for 25 years. Are you forgetting events of the past?
> The emotional abuse, manipulation, getting drunk and acting out, stonewalling you, ignoring your feelings, disrespecting you, disregarding your efforts to talk…….. this is not something that usually “pops up” out if the blue unless a brain health problem is arising.
> 
> It does seem more and more like your wife is having a psychological break.


Everyone has ups and downs and she’s not been perfect at all times (either have I), but she’s never done anything like this before. We were obviously really young the first several years and there were some adjustments learning how to be a couple who were essentially still teenagers but also had adult responsibilities together. We’ve had disagreements before, but nothing that dragged on for days, let alone weeks or months. She does have a history of being stubborn, for better or worse. There have been times where she will refuse to talk to me if we’re having a disagreement. She’s skilled at the silent treatment. But that normally doesn’t even last a few hours. She’s normally mentally a very “together” person for the most part, handles stress well, is normally pretty rational. She has always gotten sad very easily. She can cry on queue, but I’d never describe her as a drama queen.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Divorce would not be great for me. I’d be devastated by that. I have no interest in finding a “hot young thing.” But I do get what you’re trying to say.
> 
> If my wife and I ever found ourselves no longer married to each other, which I don’t think will ever happen, she wouldn’t be doomed to life all alone. She’s hot. She had a better body than many women much younger and a beautiful face too. Not to mention that if we disregard the past few months she’s normally a ton of fun to be with and smart and funny too. So no she would not be a sad lonely frumpy middle aged woman sitting at home with her cats. She could leave me and find somebody new, easily. But that’s the beside the point.
> 
> ...


You need to stop thinking of her as sad. She is sad she's not getting her way. That's about the same as a sociopath being sad because they got caught. She certainly doesn't seem sad at the pain she's causing you or in the least empathetic about it. In fact she's enjoying it. Because she sees that as winning.

You need to stop worrying about comforting her and do what's best for you and comfort yourself. This thing is so one-sided. All she cares about is her and all you care about is her. What we have here is two people in love with the same person, as the old saying goes. As long as you are coddling and comforting her you are just encouraging this abhorrent behavior. 

You're giving her all the consideration you have in your heart and she is giving you none. She really does need to see a psychologist. 

Btw, I am a woman well over 40. I don't know any other woman who has carried on with these histrionics other than your wife.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Divorce would not be great for me. I’d be devastated by that. I have no interest in finding a “hot young thing.” But I do get what you’re trying to say.
> 
> If my wife and I ever found ourselves no longer married to each other, which I don’t think will ever happen, she wouldn’t be doomed to life all alone. She’s hot. She had a better body than many women much younger and a beautiful face too. Not to mention that if we disregard the past few months she’s normally a ton of fun to be with and smart and funny too. So no she would not be a sad lonely frumpy middle aged woman sitting at home with her cats. She could leave me and find somebody new, easily. But that’s the beside the point.
> 
> ...


Wasn’t yesterday the day you mentioned getting another man? And her mom also tore her down for wanting a baby? So the two people she loves and respects the most both tore at her happiness yesterday. 

I’m sorry I know I said I wasn’t going to post but she went from thinking it was still in the works to decide if you want to be Married or not and your too old and it’s a dumb idea from mom.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DTO said:


> Fundamentally, I think the OPs wife is exhibiting poor character here. It goes beyond a disagreement over family size to the basic issue that she's willing to harm her husband and marriage.
> 
> Honestly, I'm not sure I would make saving the marriage be the overriding priority. But that is the OP's choice so my advice may not apply. Personally, I would not boot her out (assuming this isn't the first time she's used this tactic). But I would:
> 
> ...


He can't even really risk having sex with her right now because she's almost certainly not on birth control since she's trying to get pregnant and trying to trick him in to coming inside her.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> [
> 
> 
> Everyone has ups and downs and she’s not been perfect at all times (either have I), but she’s never done anything like this before. We were obviously really young the first several years and there were some adjustments learning how to be a couple who were essentially still teenagers but also had adult responsibilities together. We’ve had disagreements before, but nothing that dragged on for days, let alone weeks or months. She does have a history of being stubborn, for better or worse. There have been times where she will refuse to talk to me if we’re having a disagreement. She’s skilled at the silent treatment. But that normally doesn’t even last a few hours. She’s normally mentally a very “together” person for the most part, handles stress well, is normally pretty rational. She has always gotten sad very easily. She can cry on queue, but I’d never describe her as a drama queen.


If she can cry on queue, she is a manipulator. And a drama queen.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I feel there is no way she is on birth control anymore. Because she's trying to get pregnant. She's trying to trick you in to have a full sex with her with the understanding it will lead to being pregnant and there's no way she would be going through all that if she was still on birth control because then it wouldn't work to get her pregnant. So I don't feel like you can have sex with her safely because I feel she is off birth control and probably has been for some time. I think you are going to have to put sex on hold because it is not safe to have sex with her.


I really have a hard time imagining her trying to trick me. I don’t think she’d do that. The only reason I can’t say that I’m 100% sure anymore is that none of this behavior is normal for her. She told me the other day that she’s still on birth control. If she’s not, I imagine and hope that it’s not in an effort to trick me but because when she decided she wanted another baby it was definitely happening, without a doubt, in her head regardless of not having even told me yet. So she figured she better get off the birth control, let her cycle return to normal which I know can sometimes take a little bit. I am still being cautious because I’m not sure she’s even thinking straight right now.

If I found out she was off birth control with the intention of tricking me that would really change the whole picture for me. I feel like if I had proof that she was doing that, it’d be immediate vasectomy without even telling her about it until sometime later when I decided I felt like mentioning it. No point dwelling on this now since it’s be hard to prove anyway. She really seems to want me to agree to it and seeing as how she’s had me in her grasp and then shut me down sexually many times, I don’t think she’s trying to plan an oops.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Oh please. This isn't about gender.
> 
> Thread for reference:
> 
> ...


Of course that this thread is no about genders. It isn't and it shouldn't be. BUT... he has been portrayed as an insensitive male that has not consideration to the wants of his wife.

My point is as I said that IF he would had come here demanding that his wife bears him a child he would have been crucified. Very few (especially females) would had sided with him. God forbid.

And no, I was not attacking nor putting your integrity in question. What I said was that based on your responses of so much blah, blah, blah about how he "must" surrender to his wife's demands, I was wondering if your wife have you in her purse, because obviously, you're coming across as an apologists to his wife's demands. Nothing else. Certainly not your integrity. 

Moreover, your points can be very well taken for young couples that are starting to have a family, but for a couple that are already into their 40s and seeking how to enjoy the rest of their lives, is mind boggling to coerce a man that by his own accord doesn't want a child. He shouldn't, at this stage in his life to be forced to acquiescence to something so life changing as bringing to this world another life. Personally, If I was in his position I'd be damned if I were to be forced to do such life altering decision. My wife tells me I want a child, I would respond not with me. Take it or leave it. I wouldn't put up with being manipulated, coerced, and bamboozle. Regardless of the consequences. If you don't believe me ask my first wife why I divorced her. I'll tell you..
Three months, just a little over three months of completely cutting me off from sex. Her payback= immediate divorce. To this day, now, she regrets her bad behavior. I wasn't, nor I would be blackmailed ever like that by anyone. I'm secure enough in myself to accept the dissolution of my marriage before I submit to blackmail.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Divorce would not be great for me. I’d be devastated by that. I have no interest in finding a “hot young thing.” But I do get what you’re trying to say.
> 
> If my wife and I ever found ourselves no longer married to each other, which I don’t think will ever happen, she wouldn’t be doomed to life all alone. She’s hot. She had a better body than many women much younger and a beautiful face too. Not to mention that if we disregard the past few months she’s normally a ton of fun to be with and smart and funny too. So no she would not be a sad lonely frumpy middle aged woman sitting at home with her cats. She could leave me and find somebody new, easily. But that’s the beside the point.
> 
> ...


I'm telling you man that she is not well. Please treat her like she is unwell because she is.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If she can cry on queue, she is a manipulator. And a drama queen.


“Crying on queue” may not have been the correct phrase. She cries at the drop of a hat. A lot of stuff makes her cry. I wouldn’t say she fakes crying to get her way (normally), but just cries extremely easily. And yes it usually works on me.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Divorce would not be great for me. I’d be devastated by that. I have no interest in finding a “hot young thing.” But I do get what you’re trying to say.
> 
> If my wife and I ever found ourselves no longer married to each other, which I don’t think will ever happen, she wouldn’t be doomed to life all alone. She’s hot. She has a better body than many women much younger and a beautiful face too. Not to mention that if we disregard the past few months she’s normally a ton of fun to be with and smart and funny too. So no she would not be a sad lonely frumpy middle aged woman sitting at home with her cats. She could leave me and find somebody new, easily. But that’s the beside the point.
> 
> ...


You are NOT pathetic. Look, this that she’s going through isn’t a small thing, IF I’m right about what’s going on. You can’t be expected to understand this, men have no experience that is anything like this. It’s not something you get past in one day. Honestly, if I were you, I’d call her mother and fill her in. Let her help.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I really have a hard time imagining her trying to trick me. I don’t think she’d do that. The only reason I can’t say that I’m 100% sure anymore is that none of this behavior is normal for her. She told me the other day that she’s still on birth control. If she’s not, I imagine and hope that it’s not in an effort to trick me but because when she decided she wanted another baby it was definitely happening, without a doubt, in her head regardless of not having even told me yet. So she figured she better get off the birth control, let her cycle return to normal which I know can sometimes take a little bit. I am still being cautious because I’m not sure she’s even thinking straight right now.
> 
> If I found out she was off birth control with the intention of tricking me that would really change the whole picture for me. I feel like if I had proof that she was doing that, it’d be immediate vasectomy without even telling her about it until sometime later when I decided I felt like mentioning it. No point dwelling on this now since it’s be hard to prove anyway. She really seems to want me to agree to it and seeing as how she’s had me in her grasp and then shut me down sexually many times, I don’t think she’s trying to plan an oops.


Well how do you explain her refusing to have sex with you if you don't say you'll get her pregnant?

And you say you have a hard time imagining her trying to trick you but that's what she's been doing for the last 3 months. She's been trying to trick you by getting you excited and then shutting it down unless you'll agree to have a baby. She's literally trying to force this on you. 

How is she going to get pregnant if she's on birth control pills?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> “Crying on queue” may not have been the correct phrase. She cries at the drop of a hat. A lot of stuff makes her cry. I wouldn’t say she fakes crying to get her way (normally), but just cries extremely easily. And yes it usually works on me.


That officially makes her a drama queen. The psychiatric term for that is histrionic, and it is very manipulative.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> Wasn’t yesterday the day you mentioned getting another man? And her mom also tore her down for wanting a baby? So the two people she loves and respects the most both tore at her happiness yesterday.
> 
> I’m sorry I know I said I wasn’t going to post but she went from thinking it was still in the works to decide if you want to be Married or not and your too old and it’s a dumb idea from mom.


Yes it was. I’m kicking myself for what I said. At the time, I did like the reaction it got out of her. She was knocked off balance. I felt like I had a bit of power back. But by the next day after she, I’m assuming, had both what I said on her mind and then was called crazy by her mom, her behavior totally changed but not necessarily for the better.

I can understand why hearing those things would really hurt. I’m not stupid. I didn’t mean to hurt her by what I said, but I can see now how hurtful it probably was too her and I definitely know how hurtful her mom’s comments were. So I’m inclined to believe that she’s still a perfectly mentally competent person who is having a very difficult time, but less inclined to think she’s having any sort of actual mental breakdown or true mental health issue such as a manic episode. I’m not an expert though, obviously.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’ve never once, other poster’s continual false claims to the contrary, said her behavior was acceptable. It’s juvenile and she should be ashamed. I’ve never said he should agree to a baby, I don’t think he should. What I said was to at least try to get her into counseling. I said have a stern conversation with her, explain the damage she’s doing and work on it together instead of tossing her into the trash. I’ve also admitted that as a woman, my perspective is different and while I can’t defend what she’s done or doing I can understand how crazy a mid life crisis can make you. The OP said he didn’t want to toss her in the trash, so I gave him a woman’s perspective on ways to help her.
> 
> No matter what he decides to do, he may end up divorced. We’ve established that would be great for him because he can start over with a sweet young thing while she is left alone forever, no skin off his nose. There is only one way her life isn’t ruined by this and that’s if he gives her another chance. I hate to see a woman at 40, facing 40 more years all alone, her child and grandchild turned against her, held in contempt by everyone, because she had a mental breakdown and it was too much of an ego hit to try to help her.
> 
> I do not believe that he is facing a binary choice of total capitulation or divorce. Perhaps I am wrong. But I am entitled to an opinion just as you are entitled to yours.


What do you mean by "only one way her life isn't ruined"? She is an attractive, single, professional woman - she'll have little trouble dating and eventually finding a new partner - if she chooses to. She may decide to remain single.

A baby is all or nothing; there is no half-way. The only third option is for her to drop this and revert to how she used to treat him - and before he hardens himself to minimize the pain.

You cannot help someone who doesn't want to be helped. My experience in this regard is that people don't wait months and years then be all like "okay I'm ready". It's either halting progress or none at all. 

I deeply regret wasting many years with my ex. I just don't want the OP to do the same.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well how do you explain her refusing to have sex with you if you don't say you'll get her pregnant?
> 
> And you say you have a hard time imagining her trying to trick you but that's what she's been doing for the last 3 months. She's been trying to trick you by getting you excited and then shutting it down unless you'll agree to have a baby. She's literally trying to force this on you.
> 
> How is she going to get pregnant if she's on birth control pills?


She’s refusing to try to “punish” me. I won’t give her what she wants so she won’t give me what she knows I want. And she has to know despite my trying to play it cool like I don’t care. She wants to take something that I love and cherish away until I agree to give in to what she wants.

Maybe you’re right. I never thought I’d be in a marriage forum typing any of this stuff out so what do I even really know anymore. I just still cannot imagine her doing it. Tricking somebody into pregnancy is much lower than withholding sex, to me.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DTO said:


> Fundamentally, I think the OPs wife is exhibiting poor character here. It goes beyond a disagreement over family size to the basic issue that she's willing to harm her husband and marriage.
> 
> Honestly, I'm not sure I would make saving the marriage be the overriding priority. But that is the OP's choice so my advice may not apply. Personally, I would not boot her out (assuming this isn't the first time she's used this tactic). But I would:
> 
> ...


Glover also says women are the same as dogs. Same character, same brain power, same “value.” You and Glover are both woman haters so of course you’re condescending and believe my opinion to have no value. Go ahead and advise the OP to divorce and replace his wife, because as far as you’re concerned women are interchangeable.

Obviously his priority shouldn’t be saving the marriage, women are a dime a dozen and one is the same as the other. The priority according to Glover is humiliating her until you can treat her like dirt and she will say thank you (quietly, so it doesn’t bother you too much).


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She’s refusing to try to “punish” me. I won’t give her what she wants so she won’t give me what she knows I want. And she has to know despite my trying to play it cool like I don’t care. She wants to take something that I love and cherish away until I agree to give in to what she wants.
> 
> Maybe you’re right. I never thought I’d be in a marriage forum typing any of this stuff out so what do I even really know anymore. I just still cannot imagine her doing it. Tricking somebody into pregnancy is much lower than withholding sex, to me.


She is doing to you what the male posters here are recommending you do to her. How does it feel? Do you feel loved? Do you trust her right now? Please remember this when you read the posts of men who think women have the same brain as a household pet.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

I think you really need to keep an eye on your wife's mental state. She could just be putting on a show and maybe you've missed many red flags along the way, but it's also possible she needs more help than you can provide. Her acting like this all of a sudden, then a sudden flip to crying and "mountain of tissues", then drinking, it can be signs of an impending psych hold/stay. Take the possibility seriously and be open to the reality of it. I say that from experience.



DownByTheRiver said:


> That officially makes her a drama queen. The psychiatric term for that is histrionic, and it is very manipulative.


If she's doing it for attention or to get her way, sure. If she's just an emotional person, no.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> So she is now drunk in bed. What a mess. I don't think this is about having a baby anymore. The baby is part of it I think but I feel she has deeper/darker issues going on. Once she has sobered up talk to her asap and ask her wtf is going on (in a loving way of course). Could she have been having a manic episode and now depressed coming down from the mania?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


Is she bipolar? Because everything that she has done sounds like a manic episode except that it's lasted too long.
And also it's all on one subject and her attention would likely be divided if she was manic because a lot of times they are trying to do a bunch of stuff at once.


If she isn't bipolar and hasn't acted this crazy before, she's crying because she's not getting her way and she's used to being a spoiled brat who gets her way.
She might be narcissistic.

Either way she does need to go in for a psych evaluation. I don't know how you'll manage that but if she does make any threats of any kind you can call the police and they can take her for evaluation if you live in the US anyway although it's certainly probably not something they'd rather do if they have any reason to doubt. It isn't easy to get someone to go for help who doesn't think there's anything wrong with them


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

When is the last time she didn't get her way about something? How long ago was that not counting this situation?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Yes it was. I’m kicking myself for what I said. At the time, I did like the reaction it got out of her. She was knocked off balance. I felt like I had a bit of power back. But by the next day after she, I’m assuming, had both what I said on her mind and then was called crazy by her mom, her behavior totally changed but not necessarily for the better.
> 
> I can understand why hearing those things would really hurt. I’m not stupid. I didn’t mean to hurt her by what I said, but I can see now how hurtful it probably was too her and I definitely know how hurtful her mom’s comments were. So I’m inclined to believe that she’s still a perfectly mentally competent person who is having a very difficult time, but less inclined to think she’s having any sort of actual mental breakdown or true mental health issue such as a manic episode. I’m not an expert though, obviously.


Those little digs (often suggested here) feel good to internet warriors and divorced people who remember their evil ex. But they rarely long term help. 

You could totally be in control and have her apologizing if you just walked in and said this is horseshit I don’t want a baby I do want sex. You either get on board with being my wife or maybe it’s time for us to look at more drastic alternatives.

She’d most likely change and never mention baby again and have sex. But you’d be Married to a different woman. And of course how she feels about you would change. I think yesterday may already have done that. Do you want to be married to a broken woman. They are gentle and compliant.

I still don’t understand the premise that admitting ones mistakes is giving up or giving her power. I’m a teacher and when I make a mistake I tell the student I’m sorry I …. Then I say what I did. That doesn’t mean i let them walk all over me. I believe admitting mistakes is what makes you grow and how relationships get stronger. So you wive is being unkind. She got drunk when normally she doesn’t. Seems to me she’s having a lot of difficulty. It’s not easy but be the bigger adult. When she does come out of this hopefully she’ll apologize for what she did but if she doesn’t … does it make your mistakes less just because she made a **** ton of them?

I didn’t have much sex with my husband after my daughter was born. I had stitches tearing and pain during sex for about a year or so after birth. I didn’t think much about my husbands desire for sex because he didn’t bring it up. Now looking back I have so much love for him that he was able to handle that. I’ve repaid that missing sex many times over.

I believe you love your wife. I maybe projecting but I think you have a great marriage. I think your wife is going through a bunch of stuff right now. I don’t think she’s crazy either. I think she hurt and angry and sad and now feels abandoned. That’s not all your fault but does that matter? You can only control you. The only action you can do to effect her is your actions. Make each action one in the direction you want to end up not a quick reaction in the moment.

Again I could be wrong but I don’t see her talking to you anytime soon because the safety net is gone. You removed it yesterday.


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’ve recently been reading about dead bedrooms on a few sites and saw a mention of Talk About Marriage on a Reddit post and thought I’d come check this place out in case somebody here might be able to help. I suppose you could say I’m experiencing what is the start of a dead bedroom, but it’s not really a typical “my wife just doesn’t want sex anymore” situation. She’s intentionally withholding sex now and what I thought would be a short, stubborn hold out has turned into almost 3 months of no sex. Just some quick background…I’m 42 and she’s 40. We celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary in June, but we’ve been together since high school. We had a baby when we were still in high school, I was 18 and she was 16. Totally unplanned and turned our worlds upside down but I think we can both agree that our son is the best thing that ever happened to us and despite how difficult it was at the time, I wouldn’t change how any of it happened now. Our son is 24 and married. 4 months ago he and his wife announced that they’re pregnant. So, I’m going to be a grandfather before my 43rd birthday. I’m happy for them. I mean, they did everything right, went to college, have good jobs now, but it’s taking about of getting used to thinking about neither my wife or I even being 45 yet and grandparents. Anyway, a few weeks after they announced the pregnancy my wife started subtly making mention of how much she missed having a baby around, how cute little kids are, how different it’d be if we were to do it again at our current ages. I figured she was just really looking forward to a grandchild - you know, somebody she could buy things for and play with and then hand back off to mom and dad at the end of the day. After a few weeks of the subtle hinting she asked me if I’d consider having another baby now. Apparently she regrets never having another (he’s our only child, fyi). Now, she feels at 40 this is the last chance. I was honest and told her no. I don’t want to start over with another baby in my 40s. Our kid is 24 years old! We didn’t have more children years ago when we were younger because we spent the first 10 years of his life just trying to get by and then to eventually catch up to our peers. It took us a little longer to finish college, to buy our first home, etc. but we got there eventually. Having a kid so young made us get serious about things like real jobs and motivated us to try to advance in our careers much quicker than we probably would have. My wife has gone back and gotten 2 more degrees over the years. Eventually once our son was about 10-12 we talked about it decided we were happy with the way things were and didn’t want to start over with a baby at that point. I’m proud to say that we worked so hard and planned so well that we’re now in a much better position than most of our friends our age AND while most of our friends still have young kids at home ours is grown and doing well and we are young enough to now be able to enjoy all that we’ve worked for. My wife has gone back and gotten 2 more degrees. To me, this should be our time to finally enjoy ourselves, to go on vacations just the two of us, to buy ourselves a few nice things, to have adult only time all the time! To my wife, I’m being a selfish asshole who won’t consider her feelings. She hasn’t been talking about having a baby for years or anything like that, mind you. She starts talking about it out of the blue and suddenly I’m the bad guy because I don’t want to have a baby now? And that’s how it started. Since then, she’s almost completely refused sex for 3 months straight. Before this, our sex life was good - often, spontaneous, varied, she initiated probably 30% of the time. There was a definitely big boost to our sex life about 4 years ago when our son was basically completely out of the house. My wife started working out more, taking more time for herself, and her libido really seemed to increase and I wasn’t about to complain. So this was all still going on until the baby talk. Now she just mopes and avoids most physical interactions with me. She still has a sex drive because she masturbates regularly. She tells me she’s doing it and is punishing me. The times where she has agreed to actual sex it seems to be going great but then she’ll ask if I’ll give her a baby or some similar comment and I say no and then she gets mad. A few times I’ve actually just played along with it so she wouldn’t get mad and stop right before we reach the best part, but anymore I don’t even want to have sex with her because she’s going to bring it up midway through the action and honestly it’s a total mood killer for me. So what started as just a stubborn “punishment” has turned into a 3 month holdout and I don’t know what to do. I’ve been honest - I’ve told her I don’t want a baby. I don’t want to divorce her over this, that seems ridiculous. I just don’t know how to get her to budge. I’m worried that this (her behavior as well as the overall lack of intimacy) is now doing serious damage to both our marriage and our sexual relationship. Suggestions? How would YOU handle this?


 She puts out or get out. But I tell you, this will drive a wedge between you too. Look read what Ephesians in the bible means to submit. Your wife wants a kid with you. giver it to her. You both are aged, and it maybe high risk. You are still in your prime. Man up, She still ;loves you to want this;She could hypergamy your but, take 75% of your wealth and find a apha better than you to have a kid with. I think to save you mariage yout need to have many discussions about this, Man up amd be supporyive, I am 58 and I wish for a do-over. i wish i was 40. good luck


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## AlwaysImproving (5 mo ago)

CoffeeandTV said:


> she wouldn’t be doomed to life all alone. She’s hot. She has a better body than many women much younger and a beautiful face too.


I just don't get this. Why does this matter? You gotta start looking out and standing up for YOU more. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that everything has been fairy tales before this incident then all of a sudden this. 

I was one of those telling you to take a harder stance because I spent time being married to a sex manipulator that pulled some of the same stunts that you have said. She was hot also and great in bed when not manipulating. She would even tell me that no other woman would put up with me and I'd never find as good as her. Well, I left anyway. Fast forward years and we both were remarried. She found a guy quick alright, but what a disaster that turned out to be for her. It was a train wreck. For myself, I found a wife who was much younger than her. She's so much kinder and beautiful as well. I have sex mostly every day and I don't have to earn it through manipulation. Almost married 8 years now. You have to know you're a better husband than you think you are and there are women out there right now looking and praying for someone like you. 

You do your own calculus about how long you want to hold out to stay with hot woman who wants to treat you what people here are calling abuse which it is. But please don't think that she will be better off without you. It doesn't always work out like that.

I'm not saying that you should divorce her now. That's not my advice, but grow some confidence and get more assertive. Stop approaching her "non-sexually." Be sexual and stand up for yourself.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> When is the last time she didn't get her way about something? How long ago was that not counting this situation?


I don’t know, quite a while.

We’re normally on the same page or close enough that there’s an easy compromise or middle ground. We’ve rarely had situations where she’s “demanding” to have her way. She’s really not a demanding woman. She’s usually pretty laid back. In saying that, when she does say she wants something or needs something my first instinct is always “ok, how do I make that happen?” I just like being that person for her. It makes me happy. Normally it’s reciprocated in some way. If I say exactly how I’ll be considered focusing too much on my penis again.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I don’t know, quite a while.
> 
> We’re normally on the same page or close enough that there’s an easy compromise or middle ground. We’ve rarely had situations where she’s “demanding” to have her way. She’s really not a demanding woman. She’s usually pretty laid back. In saying that, when she does say she wants something or needs something my first instinct is always “ok, how do I make that happen?” I just like being that person for her. It makes me happy. Normally it’s reciprocated in some way. If I say exactly this I’ll be considered focusing too much on my penis again.


Dude. So you always give in and this is in reality a big tantrum to get her way? She hasn’t been a good wife through thick and thin because you have altered the world around her so she never had to deal with any adversity? Well now I have to change my answer. I still don’t think you should break her spirit and try to humiliate and break her down, but I do think you should really consider if you want to spend the rest of your life married to a petulant child. Remember, we’re all strangers on the internet and don’t know the situation as well as you do, but maybe you should take a good hard look at your situation. Dude. I was totally putting myself in your wife’s shoes and considering how I would react in her place, but that was dumb because I’d never use sex as a weapon like that. This thread has been an exhausting journey, I apologize that I haven’t been very helpful.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Yes it was. I’m kicking myself for what I said. At the time, I did like the reaction it got out of her. She was knocked off balance. I felt like I had a bit of power back. But by the next day after she, I’m assuming, had both what I said on her mind and then was called crazy by her mom, her behavior totally changed but not necessarily for the better.
> 
> I can understand why hearing those things would really hurt. I’m not stupid. I didn’t mean to hurt her by what I said, but I can see now how hurtful it probably was too her and I definitely know how hurtful her mom’s comments were. So I’m inclined to believe that she’s still a perfectly mentally competent person who is having a very difficult time, but less inclined to think she’s having any sort of actual mental breakdown or true mental health issue such as a manic episode. I’m not an expert though, obviously.


Her behavior changed because she started realizing that getting her way wasn't a given in this circumstance like it has been with you before.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

AlwaysImproving said:


> I just don't get this. Why does this matter? You gotta start looking out and standing up for YOU more. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that everything has been fairy tales before this incident then all of a sudden this.
> 
> I was one of those telling you to take a harder stance because I spent time being married to a sex manipulator that pulled some of the same stunts that you have said. She was hot also and great in bed when not manipulating. She would even tell me that no other woman would put up with me and I'd never find as good as her. Well, I left anyway. Fast forward years and we both were remarried. She found a guy quick alright, but what a disaster that turned out to be for her. It was a train wreck. For myself, I found a wife who was much younger than her. She's so much kinder and beautiful as well. I have sex mostly every day and I don't have to earn it through manipulation. Almost married 8 years now. You have to know you're a better husband than you think you are and there are women out there right now looking and praying for someone like you.
> 
> ...


I didn’t say she’d be better off without me. I was saying she’s not some frumpy middle aged woman who would be sitting at home alone with her cats if we divorced. She wouldn’t be alone. She could easily find another man if that’s what she wanted. It’d be foolish and egotistical of me to think she couldn’t find somebody new. I didn’t say he’d be better than me. I’m not perfect but I do think I’m a pretty great husband to her. I think she’d be hard pressed to find somebody like me and who loved her as much as I do. Overall, I’m a quality guy with a lot to offer and she knows that. I’m not lacking in confidence about my abilities as a man, partner, or husband.

I also never said our marriage was all fairytales. Nothing like this has happened before. She’s never done anything like this before, no withholding of sex either. We’ve never had a disagreement stretch for months. There’s a lot of area between fairytale and what we’re currently experiencing. For the most part though, our marriage has been great. I’ve been happy with my life and with my choice to marry her, we have a good life together. We’re usually a team. We don’t normally struggle against each other. It’s usually the two of us together struggling against a shared problem.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Dude. So you always give in and this is in reality a big tantrum to get her way? She hasn’t been a good wife through thick and thin because you have altered the world around her so she never had to deal with any adversity? Well now I have to change my answer. I still don’t think you should break her spirit and try to humiliate and break her down, but I do think you should really consider if you want to spend the rest of your life married to a petulant child. Remember, we’re all strangers on the internet and don’t know the situation as well as you do, but maybe you should take a good hard look at your situation. Dude. I was totally putting myself in your wife’s shoes and considering how I would react in her place, but that was dumb because I’d never use sex as a weapon like that. This thread has been an exhausting journey, I apologize that I haven’t been very helpful.


She’s experienced adversity but yes I’ve done my best to shoulder as much of it as I can. I guess it all started over the guilt of getting her pregnant and I don’t know, it’s just how I’ve always been ever since then. I don’t do it out of any sense of guilt now, but I just feel it’s part of my duty. I just like making her happy. She’s never given me a reason to not want to treat her that way until now. And as I’ve admitted, part of me still just wants to fix this all for her and give her what she wants.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She’s experienced adversity but yes I’ve done my best to shoulder as much of it as I can. I guess it all started over the guilt of getting her pregnant and I don’t know, it’s just how I’ve always been ever since then. I don’t do it out of any sense of guilt now, but I just feel it’s part of my duty. I just like making her happy. She’s never given me a reason to not want to treat her that way until now. And as I’ve admitted, part of me still just wants to fix this all for her and give her what she wants.


Honey, there were two of you there. You didn’t “get her pregnant.” Well I mean you did I guess 🤪, but what I mean is you are not solely to blame because she was just as involved as you were. Have you spent your entire marriage trying to make up to her for something for which you were both equally responsible? That is bananas. Stop it. Now. You aren’t helping her by coddling her. She’s a grown woman. And you’re not helping yourself, clearly. I’m not advocating for being hateful to her, but you can stand up for yourself without being a jerk. You can’t make another person happy. You can give them their way, but we see where that leads. The only one who can make her happy is her. She isn’t unhappy right now because of you. Stop taking the blame for things that aren’t your fault.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She’s experienced adversity but yes I’ve done my best to shoulder as much of it as I can. I guess it all started over the guilt of getting her pregnant and I don’t know, it’s just how I’ve always been ever since then. I don’t do it out of any sense of guilt now, but I just feel it’s part of my duty. I just like making her happy. She’s never given me a reason to not want to treat her that way until now. And as I’ve admitted, part of me still just wants to fix this all for her and give her what she wants.


I've been wanting to bring this up but I think your answer clarified it. When she was a teen do you feel it was mostly your fault she got pregnant or is there a chance that she was doing it on purpose?

Anyway your guilt you are lucid about how it's affecting you right now but I'm not sure you can turn on a dime. Between her manipulation and histrionics and your guilt, that would be plenty for you both to talk to a marriage counselor about. 

I don't think your marriage has to be over just because you refuse to get her pregnant, but I do think you need to get in marriage counseling ASAP and you need to be willing to stand up for yourself once you're in there and not just make it easy for her. Because this stalemate will be hard to break without some help.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

While your wife is acting strange and no knowing what she can be capable of at this moment, or how far she will go, I would get yourself a voice activated recorder and record everything while with her and in this state. This is for protection for yourself if your wife all of a sudden goes crazy. Has happened many times with men and women. One man got thrown in jail because his amazing, loving wife lost it one night and hit him, then to top it off she rang the police saying her husband physically abused her. She even scratched herself up and gave herself marks. They had perfect marriage till that point. This is out of character for your wife so please protect yourself while she is all over the place and unstable.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

How did she get so drunk before she came home? Who was she with after work?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I just don’t know how to get her to budge.





CoffeeandTV said:


> Then she also went on to complain about how she didn’t get to enjoy her first pregnancy due to her age at the time and all the shame she felt, which caused her to try to hide it from most people and she wants to be able to enjoy pregnancy this time around without her parents and everyone else telling her what to do.





CoffeeandTV said:


> She’s trying to prove to me that it isn’t a whim because I accused her of it being just that.


I'm sure you'll be understanding that I haven't read the entire thread given it's at 30+ pages.

While not condoning her actions and response, here's a few cherry-picked posts from you that really had me feeling this is a time that she needs empathy and compassion; and for you both to try to adjust to manage this conflict differently between you. It stands to reason that being able to discuss difficulties that arise in a more positive manner facilitates greater satisfaction within the relationship. And so, expressive and receptive skills of communication can support problem-solving. For clarity, I'm not suggesting baby / no baby; yet there does seem to be a divide in the extent of your understanding of what she is currently experiencing - and no doubt vice verse too. 



ConanHub said:


> I'm telling you man that she is not well. Please treat her like she is unwell because she is.


Agree - particularly with the mention (I think it was in the opening post) - that she is continuing to mope. Then I did see that she drank to excess and which is out of the ordinary for her. Given some of your other posts (@CoffeeandTV), of which admittedly I've only read some), you don't paint the picture of her being typically mean or manipulative as a standard. In other words, based on what you have shared (that I read, at least), my perception is this style is out of the ordinary for her, and I'm of the opinion that it ought not be downplayed or labelled as ill-intent. Rather, it comes across like she is experiencing a type of crises and perhaps has also not been fully heard or understood as part of that from the moment that she mentioned it.

These are my observations. Right now, I'd hazard a guess that she really needs your love, understanding, and to be heard. Not to be confused with conceiving a child. Yet, still having her back as she experiences this.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I don’t know, quite a while.
> 
> We’re normally on the same page or close enough that there’s an easy compromise or middle ground. We’ve rarely had situations where she’s “demanding” to have her way. She’s really not a demanding woman. She’s usually pretty laid back. In saying that, when she does say she wants something or needs something my first instinct is always “ok, how do I make that happen?” I just like being that person for her. It makes me happy. Normally it’s reciprocated in some way. If I say exactly how I’ll be considered focusing too much on my penis again.


So what you're saying is you make things happen for her and in exchange she gives you sex? So this isn't the first time it's been used as a bargaining chip? I'm not saying that's that unusual.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> How did she get so drunk before she came home? Who was she with after work?


She got home about 1.5 hours before me and was drinking at home, not out somewhere with other people. She’s a lightweight and will get pretty tipsy after 1 margarita so it probably only took a few drinks for her to get to the point she was tonight.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So what you're saying is you make things happen for her and in exchange she gives you sex? So this isn't the first time it's been used as a bargaining chip? I'm not saying that's that unusual.


Not exactly what I’m saying. I think she normally has sex with me on a very regular basis because she loves me and she also enjoys sex herself, it’s not all about me. The service from her is just particularly spectacular when I’ve taken care of her in the ways she enjoys (ie, taking care of things for her). The more I treat her like a princess outside of the bedroom, which I do genuinely enjoy doing, the more she treats me like a king inside the bedroom. My main motivation isn’t the sex really although I do love that part. It makes me feel great to be her provider, her supporter, her protector, her person. It’s how I like to show my love to her.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Not exactly what I’m saying. I think she normally has sex with me on a very regular basis because she loves me and she also enjoys sex herself, it’s not all about me. The service from her is just particularly spectacular when I’ve taken care of her in the ways she enjoys (ie, taking care of things for her). The more I treat her like a princess outside of the bedroom, which I do genuinely enjoy doing, the more she treats me like a king inside the bedroom. My main motivation isn’t the sex really although I do love that part. It makes me feel great to be her provider, her supporter, her protector, her person. It’s how I like to show my love to her.


I'm sure by now you're starting to see, though, how paving the way for her has sort of created a monster.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Glover also says women are the same as dogs. Same character, same brain power, same “value.” You and Glover are both woman haters so of course you’re condescending and believe my opinion to have no value. Go ahead and advise the OP to divorce and replace his wife, because as far as you’re concerned women are interchangeable.
> 
> Obviously his priority shouldn’t be saving the marriage, women are a dime a dozen and one is the same as the other. The priority according to Glover is humiliating her until you can treat her like dirt and she will say thank you (quietly, so it doesn’t bother you too much).


I've not heard that attributed to Glover and I don't agree with these sentiments. And, I don't hate women; you can ask the ones I've been with and they'll tell you I'm respectful and gentlemanly.

However, I don't tolerate this sort of treatment. It's based in disregard and a sense of superiority. The OP's wife treats him this way because she thinks her wants and perspective matter more than his - it is as simple as that.

You don't punish your partner by withholding sex and taunting him if you value him as your equal. You own your feelings and accept the consequences.

If you don't want sex, saying "sex without trying for a baby isn't appealing. I hope you'll be okay with this but will understand if you aren't" is perfectly fine. You're being true to your feelings. At the same time you're affirming his agency and accepting your actions might have consequences.

That's where Glover fits in. He's a strong advocate for asserting oneself as an equal, with equally important wants and needs; he calls it "taking up space". I completely agree. I consider myself equal to any partner - not more important than her, but certainly not less important either. And I act accordingly.

My life experience shows this to be the right way. Good people will listen to and respect you as an equal if you assert yourself in that manner. Good people don't play games like this.

Per Glover, the OP is responsible for his happiness. His wife is not responsible for his happiness, nor is he responsible for hers. Glover would be fine with her divorcing him if having a kid is the priority. It's these games and manipulations which are the issue.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I tried to talk to her tonight, I tried to just be there to comfort her and listen to her. I tried to take care of her, and I’m not talking sexually. Her behavior….I got so frustrated I almost had to just leave the house for a while. Instead I went into the garage and cried and that’s where I still am. Yep that’s how pathetic I am. I just don’t know how to help her. She said she’s so sad, shes so sad and doesn’t want to talk to me.
> 
> It’s not as if we’ve never had fights or disagreements but nothing like this. I’d actually prefer for her to at least go back to the sexual teasing since she seemed to get some sort of fun and enjoyment out of that! Something seems really broken since yesterday.


And so, listening unto itself is a skill. You got frustrated with her behavior. How did she respond to your attempt to listen and comfort that left you so frustrated and upset? And which you in turn responded to by going into the garage?

Sometimes (okay, often in my daily life) I may lean towards people being accountable for their actions, however, reading that she's at a potentially deep level of sadness that leaves her closing off from you just had me feeling for her - from the perspective of her mental health - with a type of deep sadness and deeply-rooted emotions arising that have been triggered through the news of becoming a grandparent. I'm not downplaying the impact this has on you. It's disheartening to read that a somewhat otherwise solid relationship is potentially at risk if you both don't start adjusting the communication style (or rather resolve) between you; and which a counselor may be able to assist with supporting.

You mentioned that you are 'her person' and inferred the ways in which you have supported her (posted just before). While I haven't read all the posts, no doubt she has also supported you and participated in cultivating the dynamic with and between you in varied ways over the years too?

I must admit the few pages that I've read, I can't help but think it's not doing you any favors to consider that she is <insert label> or a whole slew of negative traits that some posters have attached to her over this and/or the notion that you have allowed yourself to be manipulated by her in different ways over the years. On face-value I could perceive it's possible that you're a reasonable sort of person with a reasonable type of marital dynamic, and this is a bump in the road of that dynamic which has the potential to shake things up between you that could go in different ways; and not necessarily towards divorce, or a baby that you're not interested in having.

How can you navigate from here with her?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

TexasMom1216 said:


> She is doing to you what the male posters here are recommending you do to her. How does it feel? Do you feel loved? Do you trust her right now? Please remember this when you read the posts of men who think women have the same brain as a household pet.


I - a male poster - am not advocating that he do anything to punish her. I am suggesting he work on his own happiness. If he'd rather have a kid that's fine as long as he's not capitulating out of fear. Otherwise, don't have a kid. Do stuff for yourself. Hobby, friends, hanging out. Meet your own needs.

Personally, I would not bear more kids with someone who would manipulate me like that. I would tell her there would be no more kids. She can have the life we had before the withholding, or she can have her freedom - but not both. I think we have a good thing going and would hope you choose to remain, but will understand if you don't.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Anastasia6 said:


> I believe you love your wife. I maybe projecting but I think you have a great marriage. I think your wife is going through a bunch of stuff right now. I don’t think she’s crazy either. I think she hurt and angry and sad and now feels abandoned. That’s not all your fault *but does that matter*? You can only control you. The only action you can do to effect her is your actions. *Make each action one in the direction you want to end up not a quick reaction in the moment.*


Somehow I hadn't read this post prior to me posting.
BRAVO!


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So what you're saying is you make things happen for her and in exchange she gives you sex? So this isn't the first time it's been used as a bargaining chip? I'm not saying that's that unusual.


What’s unusual is her consistency in following through. I think a lot of men and women would be quite happy if their efforts to keep their spouses happy were met consistently with genuinely enthusiastic sex. Even if it appeared to be somewhat manipulative.

If you can feel good about yourself offering sexual appreciation for things you admire about your mate, things he or she does for you, and boundaries are in place such that this is because it _is_ your mate, who has made a lifetime commitment to you…

…it doesn’t seem like the worst thing in the world, even if it is a bit transactional.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I didn’t say she’d be better off without me. I was saying she’s not some frumpy middle aged woman who would be sitting at home alone with her cats if we divorced. She wouldn’t be alone. She could easily find another man if that’s what she wanted. It’d be foolish and egotistical of me to think she couldn’t find somebody new. I didn’t say he’d be better than me. I’m not perfect but I do think I’m a pretty great husband to her. I think she’d be hard pressed to find somebody like me and who loved her as much as I do. Overall, I’m a quality guy with a lot to offer and she knows that. I’m not lacking in confidence about my abilities as a man, partner, or husband.
> 
> I also never said our marriage was all fairytales. Nothing like this has happened before. She’s never done anything like this before, no withholding of sex either. We’ve never had a disagreement stretch for months. There’s a lot of area between fairytale and what we’re currently experiencing. For the most part though, our marriage has been great. I’ve been happy with my life and with my choice to marry her, we have a good life together. We’re usually a team. We don’t normally struggle against each other. It’s usually the two of us together struggling against a shared problem.


Yes, but like TexasMom said, you've done most of the heavy lifting. When was the last time she had to work hard alongside you to get something she wanted? Or just had to accept not getting her way about something that mattered greatly to her?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

So she gets news here son is having a baby.

she then gets jacked out of shape that she’s not having a baby and decides with no discussion from Coffee that she’s going to have a baby. Does she get off bc at that point?

she eventually mentions it to Coffee and he is caught off guard and having no idea she has been wanting a baby (I don’t believe she has until she discovered DIL is having one) he dismisses it as crazy (because it kinda is- out of the blue like this).

wifey gets pissed, chooses to teach Coffee a lesson— no sex for Coffee. Even taunts him with skimpy outfits. Relishes telling him no, Even smirks about it. Seeks to get joy from knowing he’s being hurt bher refusals.

Stonewalls Coffee and makes zero effort to resolve the conflict that SHE has created and he is reacting to.

After meeting with her own Mother and being called crazy—- she goes out drinking until drunk and playing the victim. Of what? Nobody has done anything to her.

Ignores her OWN choices to NOT get pregnant for 24 years , at least a few of which OP informed her he’s be all for another and blames Coffee for not being ready for a baby.

I think it’s starting to be blatantly obvious there’s an entitled princess that’s been groomed to be that way since she was 16 years old by a man that’s spent 24 years trying to make up for “getting her pregnant” the first time. It’s ironic that the only thing that she claims will make her happy is him doing the same at middle age.

Why is it not brought to bear that this hasn’t been a desire for all these years? It’s only a problem when her daughter in law gets pregnant! She’s screwed up OP’s happy home over a whim.

OP, go ahead and get her pregnant. Let her smell the fear you have of losing her and see that she can totally abuse you by withholding sex and you’ll just duck your head and do whatever she wants. You will have created a monster. A much more toothy monster than you’d have if you were firm with her like you know you should be. 

Yiu didn’t shatter her dream of another baby. She hasn’t had this dream. It’s a desire brought on by selfishness and jealousy.

If you were a younger man of more reasonable age, she’d be pregnant long ago.
She hasn’t wanted that.

Ask yourself why you’re not getting a vasectomy and then coming home and “smirking” at her like she does to you.
It’s because you care about her and wouldn’t ever want to hurt her and see her in pain. She doesn’t seem to be bothered by your pain at all. And you’ve treated her like a Queen all these years.

Her own mother sees how ridiculous her sudden infatuation with childbirth is. Think about that further. This isn’t a healthy obsession she’s got all of a sudden.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

@CoffeeandTV

People love "drama." Why do you think TV shows are so popular?

Some members here will continue to paint your wife in bad light and pump you. This is not good for your situation. These people have no idea how your wife feels in the present.

You have admitted that you were being stubborn, dismissive of your wife's feelings, and have issued hurtful statements to her. These mistakes have not helped your situation but hurt your wife very much. This is important realization on your end.

Now get to work.

1. Remove all alchoholic drinks from your house. Your wife shouldn't be drinking.

2. Call your MIL and request her to help you in this situation. Request her to not be harsh on your wife but facilitate talks between the two of you. Tell her to do this for the sake of well being of her daughter.

3. When your wife is sober and on talking terms with you again then tell her that you are open to discussing 'all possibilities' with her and believe that both can benefit from 'marital counseling' as well. Assure her that you are NOT ruling out anything. And apologize to her for your hurtful statements in general.

Above all else, you need to be 'patient' with your wife and help her heal. You do not have to coddle her but be there for her in positive and supportive ways.

Many members of TAM have been through much worse and cannot help themselves but project their insecurities onto others. These people can be helpful to others in many topics but not necessarily in every topic. Get my drift?

A few have good marriages. I am in this club. I am speaking with experience as well. My problem is that my English isn't good and this can hamper my delivery of "perspectives."


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Her “out of character” abusive treatment towards you and self-righteous anger reminds me of someone who has been using alcohol to try to cope.

Don’t miss considering that possibility. It is easy to miss. IME especially vodka, which you might not smell on her breath.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> @CoffeeandTV
> 
> People love "drama." Why do you think TV shows are so popular?
> 
> ...


No disrespect, but telling her that "consider all possibilities" is just kicking the can down the road. It's the same crap parents do to kids that pester them for toys and such. It's like "we'll see"....then they never do it. 

This is not a small request on her part. It's life altering. It doesn't mean she has no say, but with this type of thing you need full cooperation and interest from both parents, or nothing. 

Here is one other thing to consider. While you try not to look at the negatives. It's impossible in this scenario. Let's say he gives in and has the child. At that point he's almost definitely sealed his fate for the rest of his life. If they get divorced later, the child will be a very big issue that will likely not be emancipated until he is too old to care about anything. 

I say if you really don't want it, then don't give false hope. You have your right to veto it, if she decides to be petty and pout about it then you will have to deal with that, but if you string her along so she starts screwing you again, you could be setting yourself for a bigger problem down the road, not to mention that she may very well pull an "oops" on you...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

One more thing I feel compelled to post. I think one poster mentioned perimenopause.

She's a bit young but it certainly can happen at her age. I'm 48 and have felt it for 4 years. One thing I've notice is that my hormone swings cause my emotions to be amplified. So things that might have bothered me some before will now send me off the deep end.

It eventually passes foe me but whatever started it is transient. This is ongoing for her. Might be worth a hormone check...fitness definitely helps (endurance sports are the reason I'm not homicidal sometimes) but it can't cure everyone.


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## DaringGreatly (7 mo ago)

lifeistooshort said:


> One more thing I feel compelled to post. I think one poster mentioned perimenopause.
> 
> She's a bit young but it certainly can happen at her age. I'm 48 and have felt it for 4 years. One thing I've notice is that my hormone swings cause my emotions to be amplified. So things that might have bothered me some before will now send me off the deep end.
> 
> It eventually passes foe me but whatever started it is transient. This is ongoing for her. Might be worth a hormone check...fitness definitely helps (endurance sports are the reason I'm not homicidal sometimes) but it can't cure everyone.


I thought perimenopause might be a factor also. My first symptom was rage. And mood swings and forgetfulness. I went to my doctor and he tried to give me antidepressants inappropriately because he said I was too young in my early 40s. I got a better educated doctor and am now on hrt and back to my usual laid back self.
The problem is if she is taking the pill it may be masking symptoms and if she has stopped taking the pill the hormone shift to perimenopause will hit her like a truck.
@coffee Get help from an older female like her mother or an older female friend. She needs a female perspective on what may happening to her, and to have a vent and get out those feelings without it damaging your marriage further.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> The OP already told his wife to get another man to sire her child on the advice of these guys.


I think he made that mistake all on his own in the heat of the moment,


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Ok I am going to have to raise my virtual voice and shout here - *PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, HAVE HER SEEN BY A PHYSICIAN OR OTHER MENTAL HEALTH CARE PROFESSSIONAL.*

Sudden changes in behavior ( denial and intentional manipulation of sex). Loss of emotional control ( crying for hours at night). Significant mood swings (anger, sadness etc one moment, then saying she’s over it the next). Radical changes in ideation ( not wanting more children for decades, now suddenly is dying to have one). Obsessive thought patterns (have you been able to get her to talk about anything ELSE lately?). Other close relatives commenting on strange behavior (her mom saying she’s crazy). Out of character substance abuse (getting drunk alone).

ALL of these things can be a sign of some kind of mental, hormonal, metabolic or physiological event taking place. Things can range from going through a period of emotional stress to a brain tumor and anything in between.

people who have shown less change in behavior and less chaos have had strokes and brain bleeds and brain tumors. Some have had psychotic breaks. Some have had new onset of diabetes. Some have had serious hormonal and metabolic disorders.

At minimum, she is having something emotionally going on that is making her miserable and showing concerning behavior and is disrupting the security of your marriage.

SHE NEEDS PROFESSIONAL ASSESSMENT!!

maybe she just needs someone to talk and someone to tell her this happens to women in her situation and that it will pass and all will be well in a few weeks.

but maybe it’s something more serious.
Either way, she needs something more than internet strangers looking into this.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Divorce would not be great for me. I’d be devastated by that. I have no interest in finding a “hot young thing.” But I do get what you’re trying to say.
> 
> If my wife and I ever found ourselves no longer married to each other, which I don’t think will ever happen, she wouldn’t be doomed to life all alone. She’s hot. She has a better body than many women much younger and a beautiful face too. Not to mention that if we disregard the past few months she’s normally a ton of fun to be with and smart and funny too. So no she would not be a sad lonely frumpy middle aged woman sitting at home with her cats. She could leave me and find somebody new, easily. But that’s the beside the point.
> 
> ...


Personally I think you should have cried right there in front of her. I've cried in front of my wife and kids. It is nothing to hide. It is your emotions and I think she needs to see the emotional toll this is taking on you too. It isn't just her that is suffering. You both are and you both need to figure this out together.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Why are we still talking about this? The OP has clearly stated that he is going to give her the baby.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Why are we still talking about this? The OP has clearly stated that he is going to give her the baby.


We all like drama.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Now I am not saying she’s having some kind of psychotic episode or that she she is having a hormonal disorder or a brain tumor or anything. None of us here are qualified to make that determination.

i am saying that significant changes in behavior, emotional state, thought patterns, chemical usage etc need to be evaluated by a professional.

my wife was not acting half this nutty about 10 years ago when she was in her early 40s. After a noticeable change in behavior and emotional state and after some big fights we ended up in an MC’s office.

in less than an hour in the MC’s office the MC was insisting she see a doctor or a shrink. Long story short, She was ultimately diagnosed with Premenstrual Dysmorphic Disorder. She was basically “stuck” in PMS 24/7. It was likely part of peri menopause.

her internal med physician that treated her told her that people with untreated PMDD have ended up in mental hospitals, have ended up in jail, been left by their partners, alienated their children, friends and families etc. 

But once diagnosed and treated, they recover.

i had a former boss that started showing loss of emotional control and fits of crying and obsessive thought patterns that were out of character for her. She was found to have brain cancer ( ultimately died)

my point her is not to diagnose your wife, but to point out that these changes in behavior and emotional status MIGHT be signs and symptoms of a bigger mental or physiological problem.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

A lot happened in this thread since I last checked yesterday. lol Did you decide to try to have another baby with your wife, OP?

Whatever you decide, hope you both find peace in the decision.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Now I am not saying she’s having some kind of psychotic episode or that she she is having a hormonal disorder or a brain tumor or anything. None of us here are qualified to make that determination.
> 
> i am saying that significant changes in behavior, emotional state, thought patterns, chemical usage etc need to be evaluated by a professional.
> 
> ...



Or, in this case it could be nothing more than garden variety "baby envy". I'm sure you've seen/witnessed it in your own life. 

There is a similar phenomenon with engagement/ring envy. 

It's not really based on a real desire to do or have these things, but the overwhelming attention and pomp becomes too much of a pull. 

I'm not saying with 100 pct certainty this is the case but when you see the facts brought to the table it sure could be.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

The ironic element of the whole situation is: at 40 (right now - when does she turn 41?) it might not be possible for her to get pregnant with a healthy child carried to full term. Heck, some women have major issues, need IVF etc. even at 35. And multi miscarriages. Sure, I even know smart poster is going to chime in with "well I have several family members who had healthy children at 40 and no problems getting pregnant" 🤣 but that's not the reality for most women. You're also looking at a high risk pregnancy. Increased chances of twins, possible bedrest for most of the pregnancy. And to be taken into account, sperm quality also decreases with age and disabilities increase in children fathered by older men. 

I guess she is so used to getting her way she assumes she would be gifted with a healthy baby at 41+. Biology doesn't guarantee anything to women in that age range. It actually doesn't guarantee it to younger women either.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

hamadryad said:


> Or, in this case it could be nothing more than garden variety "baby envy". I'm sure you've seen/witnessed it in your own life.
> 
> There is a similar phenomenon with engagement/ring envy.
> 
> ...


That may be the case. But at minimum even the baby rabies is causing enough emotional distress in her and enough disruption in their marriage that some professional assistance is in order to help deal with this and for them to have constructive measures to address it.

Baby envy may be the least of what is taking place, and it still needs to be addressed.

however there is also the possibility it could something else taking place here. Possibly something serious.

so doesn’t it make sense to at least get her to a professional and have a professional assess the situation rather than random strangers on the internet.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

How does one force somebody to get professional help evaluation when they don’t see a need themselves (and they are in fact incredibly insulted by the idea) and they aren’t doing anything that makes them an obvious danger to themselves or others? Suggesting she just talk to a professional to help her with her feelings, an unbiased person just to listen if nothing else, dug me an even deeper hole.

I don’t have time to respond much right now. We’ve been up since 4 am talking and I’m exhausted. I can’t even get up at 4 am and talk for a few hours without feeling physically and emotionally exhausted. How am I supposed to function after being up all night with a baby? Short version of the story is my refusal to have a baby is being taken very personal and reflective of my overall love, attraction, and sexual desire for her. She’s very hurt because it means that I think she’s old (which I do not) and not a sexual viable person anymore (WHAT?!) There’s a lot more. A lot.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Personally I think you should have cried right there in front of her. I've cried in front of my wife and kids. It is nothing to hide. It is your emotions and I think she needs to see the emotional toll this is taking on you too. It isn't just her that is suffering. You both are and you both need to figure this out together.


Yeah that’s a great idea. Show her that her shenanigans are totally wrecking your life to the point you’re crying. OMG. 

SHE IS THE ONE IN THE WRONG HERE.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> How does one force somebody to get professional help evaluation when they don’t see a need themselves (and they are in fact incredibly insulted by the idea) and they aren’t doing anything that makes them an obvious danger to themselves or others? Suggesting she just talk to a professional to help her with her feelings, an unbiased person just to listen if nothing else, dug me an even deeper hole.
> 
> I don’t have time to respond much right now. We’ve been up since 4 am talking and I’m exhausted. I can’t even get up at 4 am and talk for a few hours without feeling physically and emotionally exhausted. How am I supposed to function after being up all night with a baby? Short version of the story is my refusal to have a baby is being taken very personal and reflective of my overall love, attraction, and sexual desire for her. She’s very hurt because it means that I think she’s old (which I do not) and not a sexual viable person anymore (WHAT?!) There’s a lot more. A lot.


No one is suggesting she be hauled away to the asylum and she doesn’t have to be a threat to herself or others to seek help for being miserable.

by your own description of being up at 4am and exhausted of talking shows that this situation is impacting both of your well beings very negatively.

Just the fact she is miserable and and it is negatively impacting your daily life and stressing your marriage is valid reason to seek professional assistance.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> How does one force somebody to get professional help evaluation when they don’t see a need themselves (and they are in fact incredibly insulted by the idea) and they aren’t doing anything that makes them an obvious danger to themselves or others? Suggesting she just talk to a professional to help her with her feelings, an unbiased person just to listen if nothing else, dug me an even deeper hole.
> 
> I don’t have time to respond much right now. We’ve been up since 4 am talking and I’m exhausted. I can’t even get up at 4 am and talk for a few hours without feeling physically and emotionally exhausted. How am I supposed to function after being up all night with a baby? Short version of the story is my refusal to have a baby is being taken very personal and reflective of my overall love, attraction, and sexual desire for her. She’s very hurt because it means that I think she’s old (which I do not) and not a sexual viable person anymore (WHAT?!) There’s a lot more. A lot.


Total manipulation. That’s my thoughts. My opinion is your wife has manipulated you for 25 years and only now have you run across something you feel a hard no to. That’s a word she’s never heard before from you abd she doesn’t recognize the meaning because you’ve never told her NO.

She seems to have you trained pretty well to accept it from her though.
This may hurt to hear. But it’s meant to wake you up, not hurt you.

Im not telling you to divorce her. You aren’t. Or that you should want to. You shouldn’t.
I’m telling you I believe you need to stop falling for the emotional abuse and manipulation that your wife is trying to do to you, think objectively. Keep treating her right, trying to talk and listen, but recognizing illogical emotional arguments for what they are.

Her whole ploy is to get you emotional snd not stick to logic abd reason, because how she feels is how you should feel. The only one that’s having their feelings ignited is you.

btw, if you feel my advice is unwanted, there is an ignore feature on here so you won’t be able to see my posts.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> No one is suggesting she be hauled away to the asylum and she doesn’t have to be a threat to herself or others to seek help for being miserable.
> 
> by your own description of being up at 4am and exhausted of talking shows that this situation is impacting both of your well beings very negatively.
> 
> Just the fact she is miserable and and it is negatively impacting your daily life and stressing your marriage is valid reason to seek professional assistance.


I’m not questioning the validity of professional help. I’m questioning how anyone expects me to get her professional help, as some people are telling me to do, when at this point she refuses to talk to anyone. I merely suggested just talking to a therapist and that was met with “I’m not crazy! I’m not a histrionic emotionally out of control woman! I’m just a woman who wants to be a mother and wants another baby. That doesn’t make me crazy!” As far as I’m aware with my limited experience with such things, without her being an obvious threat to herself or others, there is no way to force her to be evaluated by anyone. I’m not even about to suggest there could be something hormonal going on, at least not right now after the recent conversation. She’s probably never have sex with me again if I brought that up right now.

I’m not a mental health professional or a medical doctor but I just get a big feeling after talking to her that this isn’t due to any sort of mental or physical issue that’s causing the current situation. I think she could benefit from talking to a therapist because she is dealing with a lot of emotions. She’s obviously in a lot of emotional distress over several interconnected things. This is my unqualified, unprofessional opinion.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Can you talk to her mother? I agree that this is not something you can fix. And no, you can't force her to go to therapy. (Although the irony of her screaming "I'm not crazy!" is pretty thick.)


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m not questioning the validity of professional help. I’m questioning how anyone expects me to get her professional help, as some people are telling me to do, when at this point she refuses to talk to anyone. I merely suggested just talking to a therapist and that was met with “I’m not crazy! I’m not a histrionic emotionally out of control woman! I’m just a woman who wants to be a mother and wants another baby. That doesn’t make me crazy!” As far as I’m aware with my limited experience with such things, without her being an obvious threat to herself or others, there is no way to force her to be evaluated by anyone. I’m not even about to suggest there could be something hormonal going on, at least not right now after the recent conversation. She’s probably never have sex with me again if I brought that up right now.
> 
> I’m not a mental health professional or a medical doctor but I just get a big feeling after talking to her that this isn’t due to any sort of mental or physical issue that’s causing the current situation. I think she could benefit from talking to a therapist because she is dealing with a lot of emotions. She’s obviously in a lot of emotional distress over several interconnected things. This is my unqualified, unprofessional opinion.


You could share all of this with her family and yours - something of an “intervention.” I actually wonder if everyone would feel she’s justified in treating you like a villain if you shared exactly what has been going on. You may not want to get others involved but if she truly needs professional help, others will help you to help her. Families do it all the time when one family member is spiraling out of control mentally etc…


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> How does one force somebody to get professional help evaluation when they don’t see a need themselves (and they are in fact incredibly insulted by the idea) and they aren’t doing anything that makes them an obvious danger to themselves or others? Suggesting she just talk to a professional to help her with her feelings, an unbiased person just to listen if nothing else, dug me an even deeper hole.
> 
> I don’t have time to respond much right now. We’ve been up since 4 am talking and I’m exhausted. I can’t even get up at 4 am and talk for a few hours without feeling physically and emotionally exhausted. How am I supposed to function after being up all night with a baby? Short version of the story is my refusal to have a baby is being taken very personal and reflective of my overall love, attraction, and sexual desire for her. She’s very hurt because it means that I think she’s old (which I do not) and not a sexual viable person anymore (WHAT?!) There’s a lot more. A lot.


Wow, talk about manipulation. Add a sprinkle of narcissism.

I think she's always had this kind of personality/traits, it's just that she's never been told no about something she wants.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CD_2 said:


> You’re really screwing up royally my man. She wanted your baby… but now she hates your guts.
> 
> Dang, grow up and be a man. It’s not like you’re being sent to fight the Taliban in Afghanistan…
> 
> ...


Did you read the thread? Must not have. 

They already have a child and a grandchild on the way as well. 

The time to have another child was years ago, not now when they are in their 40s. Can you say, high risk? 

Millions of people don’t want more kids in their 40s (especially when they have a grown child with a grandchild on the way). OP is one of them.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

harperlee said:


> You do not know women. She heard, if you want a baby, get another man. If you can't understand how dismissive that is, then you are on your own.


She heard that months after she was openly stating that she was punishing him for not doing what she wants.

What he heard, day 1, was if you don't do what I want, regarding a decision I made in a vaccuum without you, then I will take away important things to force your hand. I can't see how she is in the right here.

The timing and sequence of who did what matters.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Can you talk to her mother? I agree that this is not something you can fix. And no, you can't force her to go to therapy. (Although the irony of her screaming "I'm not crazy!" is pretty thick.)


All this bring in the family. I feel that is really going to build resentment with how the MIL has been portrayed


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> How does one force somebody to get professional help evaluation when they don’t see a need themselves (and they are in fact incredibly insulted by the idea) and they aren’t doing anything that makes them an obvious danger to themselves or others? Suggesting she just talk to a professional to help her with her feelings, an unbiased person just to listen if nothing else, dug me an even deeper hole.
> 
> I don’t have time to respond much right now. We’ve been up since 4 am talking and I’m exhausted. I can’t even get up at 4 am and talk for a few hours without feeling physically and emotionally exhausted. How am I supposed to function after being up all night with a baby? Short version of the story is my refusal to have a baby is being taken very personal and reflective of my overall love, attraction, and sexual desire for her. She’s very hurt because it means that I think she’s old (which I do not) and not a sexual viable person anymore (WHAT?!) There’s a lot more. A lot.


She is old. She is really OLD a far as reproduction/conception/pregnancy/childbirth goes. That's a fact. It's called "advanced maternal age". And she's not very viable as far as fertility goes. 

You are old, reproductively speaking, too.

She can't fight biology and her blaming, victim like personality throwing this snit is shining through and it isn't pretty.

People go through all sorts of disappointments, illness, etc. and handle them with more grace and maturity than she is. 

She has a healthy child who made it to adulthood and a grandchild on the way!!!!!!


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> All this bring in the family. I feel that is really going to build resentment with how the MIL has been portrayed


That’s a good point. I am just flailing around trying to help this guy and counter all this toxicity.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> She is old. She is really OLD a far as reproduction/conception/pregnancy/childbirth goes. That's a fact. It's called "advanced maternal age". And she's not very viable as far as fertility goes.
> 
> You are old, reproductively speaking, too.
> 
> ...


I don’t consider 40 to be “old.” I don’t see her as old at all. Sure it’s old as far as reproduction goes. I know that. I know that 35+ is considered “geriatric pregnancy,” but I won’t dare even say the word geriatric around her. She knows it too and doesn’t need me, her mother, or anyone else reminding her. Reminding her only makes it worse. It’s one of the things she’s struggling with emotionally - not being considered young, fertile, viable.

She told me she’s been considering a baby since she was 35 but hasn’t said anything because she felt so unsure about it for years and was constantly talking herself out of it. So she just kept it to herself. It’s sort of difficult for me to believe that. Part of the reason she kept talking herself out of it was the potential risks, but now she says she realizes she really really wants a baby and will accept the risks. That’s great, but she won’t be the only person affected if something goes wrong.

She wants to be a mom again. She wants a bigger family. She wants us to have that experience again, but differently. She wants to carry my child, give me another child (but I don’t want one!). She doesn’t feel like she’s ready to essentially live a retired lifestyle and she wants to have a young family (the kid will be the only young one) and she doesn’t feel like that part of her life (raising children) is over, it was just dormant for a while. I’m not justifying or agreeing with any of this, just explaining what she said.

If she got pregnant between now and the new year (turns 41 in December) she’d be 41 when the baby is born and she knows that she’s already pushing it now so to wait around any longer would be “too late” in her eyes. For some reason, getting pregnant while she’s still 40 is some self imposed cut off date in her head where it’ll still be ok to do for some reason.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> How does one force somebody to get professional help evaluation when they don’t see a need themselves (and they are in fact incredibly insulted by the idea) and they aren’t doing anything that makes them an obvious danger to themselves or others? Suggesting she just talk to a professional to help her with her feelings, an unbiased person just to listen if nothing else, dug me an even deeper hole.
> 
> I don’t have time to respond much right now. We’ve been up since 4 am talking and I’m exhausted. I can’t even get up at 4 am and talk for a few hours without feeling physically and emotionally exhausted. How am I supposed to function after being up all night with a baby? Short version of the story is my refusal to have a baby is being taken very personal and reflective of my overall love, attraction, and sexual desire for her. She’s very hurt because it means that I think she’s old (which I do not) and not a sexual viable person anymore (WHAT?!) There’s a lot more. A lot.


I know it doesn’t seem like it right now but you actually made a ton of progress last night. You now know many of the things she’s feeling. This allows her to open up and be honest with you. This isn’t something that’s going to get fixed overnight because frankly it wasn’t broken overnight. Do you feel like you understand her better and also understand it isn’t just some whim?

This is what many people said she’s 40 she’s experiencing the loss of re-productivity she’s also experiencing other people thinking negatively of her and all of these things are colliding which may also involve some hormonal changes so this isn’t a crazy woman. This is a standard midlife crisis it’s normal to question your past and want to change your future. It may pass it may not. 

While talking to a counselor may or may not help. There are lots of people who go through midlife crisis or identity crisis without seeing a counselor and without having everybody in their life accuse them of being crazy. That just adds fuel to the fire more people who think she’s not good enough on top of her biology thinking she’s not good enough to have a baby. 

Women’s identities are frequently tied very heavily to reproductivity. And then adding everyone in our life dismissing her ideas of course she sad. This still doesn’t mean you should give her a baby. But just now you are seeing her side of it a little more clearly. Open communication always gives us better understanding of the other person.

This is the first step. Get some rest keep the conversation going and I agree with big daddy why did you leave the room to cry. Part of open communication and she needs to know how this is affecting you as well but not in a hostile accusatory tone just let her know that you two are having a great difficulty during this time.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I want to add that often times during a midlife crisis people reevaluate their lives and make big changes like job changes or having a baby. Many of them never regret those changes. So while some midlife crisis Create bad problems like affairs. Other ones create life changes that people are better for.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> How does one force somebody to get professional help evaluation when they don’t see a need themselves (and they are in fact incredibly insulted by the idea) and they aren’t doing anything that makes them an obvious danger to themselves or others? Suggesting she just talk to a professional to help her with her feelings, an unbiased person just to listen if nothing else, dug me an even deeper hole.
> 
> I don’t have time to respond much right now. We’ve been up since 4 am talking and I’m exhausted. I can’t even get up at 4 am and talk for a few hours without feeling physically and emotionally exhausted. How am I supposed to function after being up all night with a baby? Short version of the story is my refusal to have a baby is being taken very personal and reflective of my overall love, attraction, and sexual desire for her. She’s very hurt because it means that I think she’s old (which I do not) and not a sexual viable person anymore (WHAT?!) There’s a lot more. A lot.


That's because you've been making everything happen for her up until now and she's been trading good sex for it. So she thinks just because you're saying no that means you don't want sex from her that bad? Well you knew that when she was teasing and then shutting you out because you wouldn't say yes to a baby. Her poor ego. What about your ego? How does she think it makes you feel to know she feels she should be able to make you do anything she wants by teasing and then withholding sex? 

She's been very nasty in the way she's handled teasing you with sex and trying to barter with you with sex on something this massive as having a baby. You need to keep that in perspective before you feel too sorry for her. Again she's sad because she's not getting her way. She's not sad because of the way she's treated you. She knows you want her sexuality because you've left no doubt about that. She has no empathy for that unless you give in to her demand.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

CD_2 said:


> Having children is an implicit part of the marital contract just as much as sex is. His refusal to have children is just as wrong as her withholding sex- yet everyone is decrying how “manipulative” she is. He’s manipulative for marrying her with no intent to have more children. In fact, him getting her pregnant at 18 when she was 16 was borderline criminal.
> 
> He ain’t the good guy victim. She is.
> 
> ...


I’m starting to think you’re my wife in disguise! Good effort.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m not questioning the validity of professional help. I’m questioning how anyone expects me to get her professional help, as some people are telling me to do, when at this point she refuses to talk to anyone. I merely suggested just talking to a therapist and that was met with “I’m not crazy! I’m not a histrionic emotionally out of control woman! I’m just a woman who wants to be a mother and wants another baby. That doesn’t make me crazy!” As far as I’m aware with my limited experience with such things, without her being an obvious threat to herself or others, there is no way to force her to be evaluated by anyone. I’m not even about to suggest there could be something hormonal going on, at least not right now after the recent conversation. She’s probably never have sex with me again if I brought that up right now.
> 
> I’m not a mental health professional or a medical doctor but I just get a big feeling after talking to her that this isn’t due to any sort of mental or physical issue that’s causing the current situation. I think she could benefit from talking to a therapist because she is dealing with a lot of emotions. She’s obviously in a lot of emotional distress over several interconnected things. This is my unqualified, unprofessional opinion.


The most obvious thing is that she needs to talk with someone other than you. You’re a target, not a friend, not someone listening to her (because in her mind, if you were listening to her, if you loved her, you’d agree to another kid).

what if you told her she can’t keep beating you up on this, because it’s wrecking the marriage? That she has to vent/talk to somebody else? How that would take pressure off both of you? Tell her straight up that you’ve been through a lot, you’ve been tested to the max by a situation few survive intact (teen pregnancy) and don’t want to throw it away.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> All this bring in the family. I feel that is really going to build resentment with how the MIL has been portrayed


I just don't see why he should trade her midlife crisis for a 20-year crisis of his own if he caves in to her. He doesn't want any part of this.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I think the line about having sex with somebody tonight is a good one, but it doesn’t mean I’m planning to say that to her. I know there’s no way I’d actually do that so it’d be an empty threat anyway.


Correct. Never make a threat like that unless you mean it and are prepared to do it. Behaving otherwise makes you a liar.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

CD_2 said:


> I haven’t read all 35 pages here… isn’t marriage mostly about having children together and y’all only have one??


Absolutely not. It is about building the life you want, which is a personal decision. The worth or validity of a partnership is not determined by the size of the family.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CD_2 said:


> I think he needs therapy to understand why he is so afraid of having a baby… perhaps it is his “mid life crisis” and the therapist can get to the bottom of why he is afraid and running from marital happiness. 🤔


He's the only sane one. A lot of guys would have left her for how she's been yanking his chain the last 3 months.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DTO said:


> Absolutely not. It is about building the life you want, which is a personal decision. The worth or validity of a partnership is not determined by the size of the family.


Or by the jealous whims of one of the two partners.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I just don't see why he should trade her midlife crisis for a 20-year crisis of his own if he caves in to her. He doesn't want any part of this.


I think she’ll regret the child too. I think this is all a reaction to getting older and not being “viable” any more. It’s very hard when your life ends.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

re16 said:


> She heard that months after she was openly stating that she was punishing him for not doing what she wants.
> 
> What he heard, day 1, was if you don't do what I want, regarding a decision I made in a vaccuum without you, then I will take away important things to force your hand. I can't see how she is in the right here.
> 
> The timing and sequence of who did what matters.


I know and at no time did I say that she is in the right. It wasn't a productive or loving thing to say, no matter what is happening with her. I think Coffee understands this and married people get into imperfect conversations all.the.time. Emotions are high and lines have been drawn. My reply was directed at another post.

@CoffeeandTV, regarding professional assistance, I have suggested an appointment with her gynecologist because it is relevant to her desire to have a child and could be quite useful in redirecting her thought process in a non-threatening way. Perhaps suggest to her that you would like for her and maybe you could join, an appointment with her doctor to gain realistic information about fertility, perimenopause, her reproductive health etc.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

CD_2 said:


> I think he needs therapy to understand why he is so afraid of having a baby… perhaps it is his “mid life crisis” and the therapist can get to the bottom of why he is afraid and running from marital happiness. 🤔


Are you just trying to antagonize him? Yes he was wrong to be so straight up dismissive, but no one with a 24 year old child and a grandchild on the way just up and decides one day to have another baby without it being an emotional kneejerk decision. Which are almost always a bad idea. There have been 24 years to have more kids and it was only triggered by her son having a baby. They would have a child younger than their grandchild and this is a 20+ year commitment. You make it sound like this is just so easy.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> I want to add that often times during a midlife crisis people reevaluate their lives and make big changes like job changes or having a baby. Many of them never regret those changes. So while some midlife crisis Create bad problems like affairs. Other ones create life changes that people are better for.


I don’t think she’d ever regret having this baby. I know some people compared it to somebody who thinks they really want a puppy and then they decide they don’t really want to take care of the dog anymore after it’s done being little and cute. I don’t think that’s the case here. She’s a very good mom and I have no doubt that she’d dedicate herself to another child. I realize now that not only is it a huge part of her identity, as I’m sure it is for most mothers, but it’s been part of her identity since before she was even an actual adult and it’s defined most of her life now. I’m sure that our son having a baby of his own is feeding into this. Not because she wants the attention but because he’s grown now and will have his own family to focus on and while she’s still his mother she wants to feel needed again. Being a grandparent is wonderful, I’m sure, but it’s not the same to her as being somebody mother. I’m not saying that this is a valid reason to have a new baby but I am starting to comprehend the way she’s feeling inside. I don’t think this has anything to do with wanting a cute little baby or wanting pregnancy attention.

Now it’s a matter of me trying to figure out if I’d regret it or not.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

*Deidre* said:


> A lot happened in this thread since I last checked yesterday. lol Did you decide to try to have another baby with your wife, OP?


Post #464

_"It’s just that if it absolutely comes down to it, if she cannot get over or live with not having another child, then eventually I would choose to do that rather than have her live in resentment for the rest of our lives, hating me, or to have her leave me over it."_

Sounds like a decision to me...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Now it’s a matter of me trying to figure out if I’d regret it or not.


It depends on whether your wife and marriage are more important to you than your sanity...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I think she’ll regret the child too. I think this is all a reaction to getting older and not being “viable” any more. It’s very hard when your life ends.


No doubt. She's had a pretty easy ride because he's been paving the way for her every step of the way. She's too much of an emotional nightmare to be raising a child right now. She truly needs therapy.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

I will definitely not be involving any family in this right now. So everyone can gang up on her? It sounds like a disaster.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

CD_2 said:


> Yeah, nobody is on her side…
> 
> My wife gave birth to three healthy babies from age 39 to 47 so I’m not buying the whole y’all are too old argument.
> 
> You’re being selfish or cowardly- no offense man.


Did the two of you have a 24 year old child with a grandbaby on the way at the time?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No doubt. She's had a pretty easy ride because he's been paving the way for her every step of the way. She's too much of an emotional nightmare to be raising a child right now. She truly needs therapy.


She truly does, this is heartbreaking to watch. A baby isn’t going to make her feel younger, and that is what this is about. She’s lost her identity and purpose and is staring at the end of her sexuality and her usefulness. She will have to start over and carve out something for herself and she has never had to do that. She has never had to do anything on her own. I agree with @Anastasia6 that there has been a lot of progress in the last 24 hours, although that is hard to see. I think the worst move he can make right now is agree to a baby he doesn't want to just to make this go away. It won't go away and then there will be another person involved, an innocent person. In her current mental state I wouldn't advise her to get her ears pierced, I certainly don't think she's in a position to choose to have a child.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Sfort said:


> Correct. Never make a threat like that unless you mean it and are prepared to do it. Behaving otherwise makes you a liar.


Absolutely. Making a threat like that would be a disaster for any marriage.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Are you just trying to antagonize him? Yes he was wrong to be so straight up dismissive, but no one with a 24 year old child and a grandchild on the way just up and decides one day to have another baby without it being an emotional kneejerk decision. Which are almost always a bad idea. There have been 24 years to have more kids and it was only triggered by her son having a baby. They would have a child younger than their grandchild and this is a 20+ year commitment. You make it sound like this is just so easy.


Yes you just can't overlook her motivation here, what triggered her. I still think she just got jealous over the attention the daughter-in-law was getting and that it's pathological with her because of her teen pregnancy where she didn't get much positive attention because it was such a bad thing to do at the time. 

When you can't face up to the fact that you're now a grandma, time to get in therapy. When you start teasing and taunting your husband trying to blackmail him into getting you pregnant, time to get into therapy. When you have a huge prolonged snit because your husband doesn't go along with something that is illogical and wrongly motivated, time to get into therapy.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Did the two of you have a 24 year old child with a grandbaby on the way at the time?


People do. The only reason they have a child of 24 is because he got her pregnant when she was a teen.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I don’t think she’d ever regret having this baby. I know some people compared it to somebody who thinks they really want a puppy and then they decide they don’t really want to take care of the dog anymore after it’s done being little and cute. I don’t think that’s the case here. She’s a very good mom and I have no doubt that she’d dedicate herself to another child. I realize now that not only is it a huge part of her identity, as I’m sure it is for most mothers, but it’s been part of her identity since before she was even an actual adult and it’s defined most of her life now. I’m sure that our son having a baby of his own is feeding into this. Not because she wants the attention but because he’s grown now and will have his own family to focus on and while she’s still his mother she wants to feel needed again. Being a grandparent is wonderful, I’m sure, but it’s not the same to her as being somebody mother. I’m not saying that this is a valid reason to have a new baby but I am starting to comprehend the way she’s feeling inside. I don’t think this has anything to do with wanting a cute little baby or wanting pregnancy attention.
> 
> Now it’s a matter of me trying to figure out if I’d regret it or not.


And what happens when the second child grows up as well? Unless the child is born with special needs that would require lifelong care, it will happen. 

I understand her feeling that way but she needs to deal with these issues, not bandaid them with a new baby.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I will definitely not be involving any family in this right now. So everyone can gang up on her? It sounds like a disaster.


She already involved her mother in it so that's on her. You don't need to have any guilt about that.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

CD_2 said:


> I think he needs therapy to understand why he is so afraid of having a baby… perhaps it is his “mid life crisis” and the therapist can get to the bottom of why he is afraid and running from marital happiness. 🤔


You think that because you - as stated previously - think marriage is primarily for reproduction. Many if not most people don't feel that way.

Some possible reasons to not have kids in one's mid-40s are: he does not want to work until his late 60s or beyond. He wants to continue to have sex 3-5 times a week. He wants to downshift his career or do something different.

All very valid.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

That's the thing he needs to keep his eye on and make her realize, what Texas Mom said. If she thinks she feels old now, wait until she has the exhaustion from a new baby followed by the worst exhaustion from toddlerhood. Wait until her body goes to hell because she had a baby at 40 when most people go to hell a lot earlier than that having a baby. Then at least maybe she won't be quite so callous about thinking she can wring anything out of her husband by using it. 

He has good intentions. But giving in to someone whether it's a spouse or a child when you shouldn't isn't doing them any favors in the long run. This is when he should be strong and lead and not give in. Imagine how she's going to feel 5 years from now after 5 years of exhaustion and childbirth about herself if she feels this way about herself now.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

She told her mom she wants a kid. Airing the dirty laundry about her withholding sex and shaking her rump to taunt him is completely different.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CD_2 said:


> Traditionally (2000 plus years), marriage was about child rearing. Only the last hundred years was it perverted into some kind of “building the selfish a$$ life you want BS”. Lol


We've come a long way, baby.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> People do. The only reason they have a child of 24 is because he got her pregnant when she was a teen.


Which I've even started to wonder if it was actually her idea and not his given her current behavior.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CD_2 said:


> A lot of sane and better husbands would have jumped her bones at the first tease and given her the baby she wants. Lol


Those would be fools that weren't acting in the best interests of their future.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

CD_2 said:


> Traditionally (2000 plus years), marriage was about child rearing. Only the last hundred years was it perverted into some kind of “building the selfish a$$ life you want BS”. Lol


Tell us more about your 20 kids, bud....

I wonder what would be said of a guy that came home one day at the age of 46 and told his wife he always wanted a pleasure boat, so he planned to empty his 401K and buy it...I mean, that's his dream and desire, why not?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Which I've even started to wonder if it was actually her idea and not his given her current behavior.


I highly doubt it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

The appalling advise of most people here will guarantee a disastrous and painful marriage break up. I am sure that neither of them wants that.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> She truly does, this is heartbreaking to watch. A baby isn’t going to make her feel younger, and that is what this is about. She’s lost her identity and purpose and is staring at the end of her sexuality and her usefulness. She will have to start over and carve out something for herself and she has never had to do that. She has never had to do anything on her own. I agree with @Anastasia6 that there has been a lot of progress in the last 24 hours, although that is hard to see. I think the worst move he can make right now is agree to a baby he doesn't want to just to make this go away. It won't go away and then there will be another person involved, an innocent person. In her current mental state I wouldn't advise her to get her ears pierced, I certainly don't think she's in a position to choose to have a child.


I doubt many people have a baby to make themselves feel younger. At least I have never met anyone who has done that. The fact is that loads and loads of women of her age have babies now. Its common.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Honey, there were two of you there. You didn’t “get her pregnant.” Well I mean you did I guess 🤪, but what I mean is you are not solely to blame because she was just as involved as you were. Have you spent your entire marriage trying to make up to her for something for which you were both equally responsible? That is bananas. Stop it. Now. You aren’t helping her by coddling her. She’s a grown woman. And you’re not helping yourself, clearly. I’m not advocating for being hateful to her, but you can stand up for yourself without being a jerk. You can’t make another person happy. You can give them their way, but we see where that leads. The only one who can make her happy is her. She isn’t unhappy right now because of you. Stop taking the blame for things that aren’t your fault.


I know we were both there but I’ve always felt like it was my fault. We both knew better, but I was older, I had more experience, I knew very well that I should wear a condom every time. It was me who convinced her to start having sex in the first place. It wasn’t against her will. She was fine with other things and wanted to have actual sex but was scared scared of pregnancy! I felt like I broke her trust. We used condoms all but 2 times and those times we didn’t were because I didn’t have one in the moment but was so horny that I convinced her to just risk it and it’s probably be fine. She trusted me. I knew better. Pregnancy impacted her a lot more than it did me. I graduated with an infant and she had 2 more years of high school with a baby to care for at home. We’ve talked about it since then. She doesn’t hold me responsible and there was never a time when she said she did, even back then. She chose to have the baby and she told me I didn’t have to be involved if I didn’t want to. Despite all of that, I think I’ll always feel responsible in some way. Now at least I realize we both don’t see it as a mistake. We are happy to have our son and to have gone through everything we did together. I know she doesn’t see having him as ruining her life or anything like that, but back then I felt like I had ruined her life. And now I’m apparently ruining it by not getting her pregnant.

I don’t do things now out of guilt for getting her pregnant 25 years ago. I didn’t marry her out of obligation. I genuinely love her and I do things out of love for her. I don’t feel like I’m trapped in my teenage guilt anymore.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I will definitely not be involving any family in this right now. So everyone can gang up on her? It sounds like a disaster.


Very very wise. You sound as if you are a good and loving husband. I am sure you can both get through this if you ignore most of the awful advise you have got here. Some of it has literally made me cringe.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Which I've even started to wonder if it was actually her idea and not his given her current behavior.


It was neither of our ideas to have a baby in high school. She definitely didn’t plan it.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I just don't see why he should trade her midlife crisis for a 20-year crisis of his own if he caves in to her. He doesn't want any part of this.


I haven’t asked him to cave in. So why are you asking me?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> I doubt many people have a baby to make themselves feel younger. At least I have never met anyone who has done that. The fact is that loads and loads of women of her age have babies now. Its common.


Just because something hasn’t happened to you doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. You also don’t know anyone who struggled with weight loss after a baby or lied about who they were. I feel safe in saying that your life experience is rather unique.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> I haven’t asked him to cave in. So why are you asking me?


Why am I asking you what?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I know we were both there but I’ve always felt like it was my fault. We both knew better, but I was older, I had more experience, I knew very well that I should wear a condom every time. It was me who convinced her to start having sex in the first place. It wasn’t against her will. She was fine with other things and wanted to have actual sex but was scared scared of pregnancy! I felt like I broke her trust. We used condoms all but 2 times and those times we didn’t were because I didn’t have one in the moment but was so horny that I convinced her to just risk it and it’s probably be fine. She trusted me. I knew better. Pregnancy impacted her a lot more than it did me. I graduated with an infant and she had 2 more years of high school with a baby to care for at home. We’ve talked about it since then. She doesn’t hold me responsible and there was never a time when she said she did, even back then. She chose to have the baby and she told me I didn’t have to be involved if I didn’t want to. Despite all of that, I think I’ll always feel responsible in some way. Now at least I realize we both don’t see it as a mistake. We are happy to have our son and to have gone through everything we did together. I know she doesn’t see having him as ruining her life or anything like that, but back then I felt like I had ruined her life. And now I’m apparently ruining it by not getting her pregnant.
> 
> I don’t do things now out of guilt for getting her pregnant 25 years ago. I didn’t marry her out of obligation. I genuinely love her and I do things out of love for her. I don’t feel like I’m trapped in my teenage guilt anymore.


You were a little older and if she had a child at 16 she probably got pregnant at 15, so that was very young indeed and indeed illegal to have sex then as well. So yes I would put a little more of the responsibility on you, as you do grow up a lot between 15 and 17, or should anyway.
However that is way in the past and I think you are both heading in the right direction now. I hope you can work things out because it sounds as if you really love each other. .


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I don’t think she’d ever regret having this baby. I know some people compared it to somebody who thinks they really want a puppy and then they decide they don’t really want to take care of the dog anymore after it’s done being little and cute. I don’t think that’s the case here. She’s a very good mom and I have no doubt that she’d dedicate herself to another child. I realize now that not only is it a huge part of her identity, as I’m sure it is for most mothers, but it’s been part of her identity since before she was even an actual adult and it’s defined most of her life now. I’m sure that our son having a baby of his own is feeding into this. Not because she wants the attention but because he’s grown now and will have his own family to focus on and while she’s still his mother she wants to feel needed again. Being a grandparent is wonderful, I’m sure, but it’s not the same to her as being somebody mother. I’m not saying that this is a valid reason to have a new baby but I am starting to comprehend the way she’s feeling inside. I don’t think this has anything to do with wanting a cute little baby or wanting pregnancy attention.
> 
> Now it’s a matter of me trying to figure out if I’d regret it or not.


I’m so proud of you. At least now you’re understanding what she has to say. Part of solving this problem is you looking in your feelings and then figuring out how you can let her know your feelings without being dismissive of hers. It’s just as important for her to understand how you’re feeling as it is do you understand how she’s feeling. So again I think last nights conversation was an awesome first step


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CD_2 said:


> How many kids do you have, ma’am?


Oh so you're one of those quantity over quality guys.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Just because something hasn’t happened to you doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. You also don’t know anyone who struggled with weight loss after a baby or lied about who they were. I feel safe in saying that your life experience is rather unique.


I didn't say it hasn't happened 'to me' , I said it hasn't happened to the many many people I have known and know in my life. That's not why people have babies. They have a baby because they want a baby and its very common for people with just one child to want more. Yes I know some who have struggled with weight loss after a baby, but just as many younger people in their 20's as older. I also know many who were older mums and who didn't struggle with getting back into shape. Its not down to age. I struggle with loosing weight after my 3rd and I was in my 20's.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> I’m so proud of you. At least now you’re understanding what she has to say. Part of solving this problem is you looking in your feelings and then figuring out how you can let her know your feelings without being dismissive of hers. It’s just as important for her to understand how you’re feeling as it is do you understand how she’s feeling. So again I think last nights conversation was an awesome first step


Agreed, there is no doubt they can work through this if he ignores some of the poisonous advise he has been given here.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

CD_2 said:


> A lot of sane and better husbands would have jumped her bones at the first tease and given her the baby she wants. Lol


To what end? How many kids do you think a marriage should have? As many as the woman wants? What about what the man wants? What about what is best for the family? There are two people in a marriage, not just the woman, and sorry but _sometimes_ women are emotional and hormonal whackadoodles who shouldn't be making huge life changing decisions.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> I didn't say it hasn't happened 'to me' , I said it hasn't happened to the many many people I have known and know in my life. That's not why people have babies. They have a baby because they want a baby and its very common for people with just one child to want more. Yes I know some who have struggled with weight loss after a baby, but just as many younger people in their 20's as older. I also know many who were older mums and who didn't struggle with getting back into shape. Its not down to age. I struggle with loosing weight after my 3rd and I was in my 20's.


Again, just because something hasn’t happened in your circle of friends doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. This is a really long thread and it’s about more than babies.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

A couple of people on here are rigid in their beliefs that people should just keep having babies because of their religion. That isn't even applicable to the original poster. So I'm thinking theirs is the advice that doesn't have much relevance here since he came on here clearly stating he didn't want to have a baby at his age.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> You were a little older and if she had a child at 16 she probably got pregnant at 15, so that was very young indeed and *indeed illegal to have sex *then as well. So yes I would put a little more of the responsibility on you, as you do grow up a lot between 15 and 17, or should anyway.
> However that is way in the past and I think you are both heading in the right direction now. I hope you can work things out because it sounds as if you really love each other. .


You don't know that. You don't have any idea what the age of consent was then in his particular state. It is very unlikely that what he did was illegal based on the closeness of their age. And by your logic, if she was 15, he was probably 17 at time of conception, not even officially and adult.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

harperlee said:


> @CoffeeandTV, regarding professional assistance, I have suggested an appointment with her gynecologist because it is relevant to her desire to have a child and could be quite useful in redirecting her thought process in a non-threatening way. Perhaps suggest to her that you would like for her and maybe you could join, an appointment with her doctor to gain realistic information about fertility, perimenopause, her reproductive health etc.


I agree with this above.

she needs a thorough examination of her gynecological health and status whether you ultimately decide have another child or not.

A gynecologist could do a full blood and hormonal work up which would indicate of peri menopause is making its appearance.

a gynecologist could also thoroughly go over all the risks and benefits of a pregnancy at this stage.

now to be candid and transparent, I would also inform of what is going on with her in regards to obsessive thoughts and behaviors regarding wanting another child.

this is not anything new or shocking to a gynecologist. They see 40 year women going through this every day and can offer treatment for the hormonal issues as well as referral for any therapy etc.

now I would NOT bait her into going by saying that it is to help conceive and have a baby etc,, but rather to obtain a thorough baseline assessment of her current fertility and gynecological status.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

We all hope they can work things out and I believe they will but I think his petulant manipulative wife needs to get in therapy in order to do that anytime soon. And then I think they both need to get in marriage counseling together so he stopped setting himself up for her getting anything she wants.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

CD_2 said:


> That’s selfish but her wanting a baby as a married woman is her right - and is the ultimate unselfish act. She’s literally ready to sacrifice her body and everything to become a mother.
> 
> Comparing THAT to some doofus buying a boat is a huge insult to motherhood. Better go confess to your mom. Lol


She's already a mother. You have every right to your opinion, but it should be known that you are rather extreme in you religious views on marriage and sexuality.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> She's already a mother. You have every right to your opinion, but it should be known that you are rather extreme in you religious views on marriage and sexuality.


Yes, and one which has no relevance to what the OP is seeking in the way of help.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CD_2 said:


> Two kids seems reasonable. Men are also sometimes selfish, cowardly whackadoodles too.


Well it's the man who created this thread seeking help for his problem. When she makes a thread for her problem then maybe your comments will be more relevant and on topic.

Two kids 25 years apart does not seem reasonable.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Again, just because something hasn’t happened in your circle of friends doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. This is a really long thread and it’s about more than babies.


More than my circle of friends. Family, wider family, past work colleagues, many churches families we have had. 
Yes of course its more about babies but its central theme is a lady who just wants a second child.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CD_2 said:


> Sometimes help involves someone learning something new…
> 
> The echo chamber here where his wife was called a “manipulator”- not helpful.
> 
> Children are treasures from heaven- and good children are treasures for the world.


I agree, disgusting calling a lady who has a desperate need and is hurt and upset a manipulator. Way to go to break a marriage up with that sort of talk.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well it's the man who created this thread seeking help for his problem. When she makes a thread for her problem then maybe your comments will be more relevant and on topic.
> 
> Two kids 25 years apart does not seem reasonable.


And to have a child when your partner does not want a child, especially when you are in the throes of a mid-life crisis, is not reasonable.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well it's the man who created this thread seeking help for his problem. When she makes a thread for her problem then maybe your comments will be more relevant and on topic.
> 
> Two kids 25 years apart does not seem reasonable.


When one was born at age 16 its reasonable.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> When one was born at age 16 its reasonable.


Well then why don't you come and father the baby because he doesn't want to and he has perfectly legitimate reasons not to want to. His whole thread is because he doesn't want to.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

CD_2 said:


> Having children is an implicit part of the marital contract just as much as sex is. His refusal to have children is just as wrong as her withholding sex- yet everyone is decrying how “manipulative” she is. He’s manipulative for marrying her with no intent to have more children. In fact, him getting her pregnant at 18 when she was 16 was borderline criminal.
> 
> He ain’t the good guy victim. She is.
> 
> ...


Total nonsense. He was ready to have more children for many years and she DID NOT WANT ANOTHER at the time. Now it’s not a good time at this age for him and somehow you make HIM a villain. What?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> I agree, disgusting calling a lady who has a desperate need and is hurt and upset a manipulator. Way to go to break a marriage up with that sort of talk.


Diana, you dont think it's manipulation when she spread her legs open on their bed and started masturbating and said to him, this could be you (if you agree to have another child)?

I think that's disgusting.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> More than my circle of friends. Family, wider family, past work colleagues, many churches families we have had.
> Yes of course its more about babies but its central theme is a lady who just wants a second child.


Wow, and you're privy to all the personal secrets of ALL those people? 😲 You're dismissive of the experiences of people who have different experiences than yours. It's rude, whether you intend it that way or not. This woman has no more right to force a child on her husband than he has to force one on her.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

With the revelations about her feeling old, and projecting that you are the cause of that, you are dealing with a mid-life crisis. This is all about her wanting to feel youthful. She probably didn't say it, but turning 40 was likely something that rocked her world.

She is putting words in your mouth and having emotional reactions to her perceptions, which are not based on reality.

Her feelings are her feelings, and they are real, so don't question them... that would be a fool's errand. You can state that you are not the cause of them, and you shouldn't accept blame for them.

This is a major deal... sorry you are at this point. It has the potential to get much worse. She didn't get to experience a normal early adulthood, with lots of freedom, relationships etc... often those feelings bubble up during a mid-life crisis. So you need to be watchful of that.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

CD_2 said:


> Yeah, nobody is on her side…
> 
> My wife gave birth to three healthy babies from age 39 to 47 so I’m not buying the whole y’all are too old argument.
> 
> You’re being selfish or cowardly- no offense man.


You are extremely luck to have had a baby at all with a 47 yr old wife. Even luckier to have a healthy one at that age. No doctor would advise a woman to have a child after 42 yrs of age. It’s irresponsible


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

By age 40 an average healthy woman has only a 5% of getting pregnant every cycle, and the miscarriage rate for 40 year olds is 40% 😮 that's a high miscarriage rate.

The rates for downs are exponentially higher at 40 than for younger women. They take a huge leap after 35 and increase every year.

Eggs are really old and low quality by the time you are 40. That's just biology.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> I agree, disgusting calling a lady who has a desperate need and is hurt and upset a manipulator. Way to go to break a marriage up with that sort of talk.


Heh heh. Disgusting huh?
You’re a pretty good manipulator in trying to label others advice which you disagree with by using beautiful descriptive names. 

She’s coercing him with sex or the lack there if, to have a baby against his good judgement and desire. What descriptive word would you use for that, oh enlightened one?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Speaking as a Moderator:

@cd_2 if you can't express your opinion without being deliberately insulting and antagonistic, you will find your posting privileges suspended. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

re16 said:


> She is putting words in your mouth and having emotional reactions to her perceptions, which are not based on reality


I would also submit that she is rewriting history by saying she's wanted a child since she was 35 and was "afraid" to say something. This is a full-on, DEFCON 1 "I'm about to be a Memaw" freakout.


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## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I would also submit that she is rewriting history by saying she's wanted a child since she was 35 and was "afraid" to say something. This is a full-on, DEFCON 1 "I'm about to be a Memaw" freakout.


Yep. With a jealous side of "look how excited everyone is about DIL's pregnancy. Literally no one was happy about mine. It'd be nice to feel that instead of being judged for the entire pregnancy and a good portion of the child's life."


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*The posts by member CD_2 have been removed for violation of board rules. *


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> *The posts by member CD_2 have been removed for violation of board rules. *


Thank you.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Zedd said:


> Yep. With a jealous side of "look how excited everyone is about DIL's pregnancy. Literally no one was happy about mine. It'd be nice to feel that instead of being judged for the entire pregnancy and a good portion of the child's life."


I don’t think it has anything to do with her being jealous of everyone’s reactions to their pregnancy. Their pregnancy definitely triggered the current situation. If she actually had a secret desire for a baby brewing inside, this is what pushed it over the top no doubt about it.

I don’t think it’s positive attention she’s looking for. She’d like for her friends and family to be excited for her if she got pregnant now but it’s not the motivating factor. She said that when we found out a grandchild was on the way she suddenly realized she’s 40, she thought she had all the time in the world and just yesterday she was 35. Now she’s 40 and she’s been denying to herself that she completely wanted or should want another baby for a few years now but she realizes that she really does. She says her body needs it, it craves to be pregnant now. That sounded very weird to me but I remember another poster here saying something about her body screaming for another baby so I guess that’s what my wife’s feeling now. I guess if I can remove myself from the current conflict I can understand from my limited male perspective, since there have been times in the past where I’ve felt a very strong biological urge to knock my wife up, but it was purely a passing physical urge, not an all consuming 24/7 thought.

From what she said early this morning, she wants to fully experience pregnancy as a woman, to be able to be happy about it and celebrate it, to be excited. I’m not a woman but I’ve known enough pregnant ones at this point in my life to know that many of them might not enjoy the nausea and the bloating and the backaches but there is something unique to their female experience carrying a child and it’s a very primal and emotional thing for them at the same time. I’ve been around too many women. So she didn’t experience that before because she was so ashamed, she tried to hide it from most people, she really had a hard time with the judgment she felt. That was the worst part of pregnancy for her. Physically not one problem and she even said she didn’t feel pregnant, even with a huge belly, until the last month or so. She didn’t even get morning sickness. And even the first few years of motherhood were difficult because her parents were hovering over and had perfectly good and loving intentions but may have inadvertently taken some of the mothering experience away from her.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, she’s rewriting history because she’s about to be a young grandmother. You’ve given her everything she’s asked for in life and when you were both in your 30’s you certainly would have been more likely to agree to another baby than now so I’m not buying she was too fearful to bring it up then.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Physically not one problem and she even said she didn’t feel pregnant, even with a huge belly, until the last month or so. She didn’t even get morning sickness. And even the first few years of motherhood were difficult because her parents were hovering over and had perfectly good and loving intentions but may have inadvertently taken some of the mothering experience away from her.


I can assure you with no hesitation that she will definitely "feel it" if she gets pregnant at 40. It is not at all going to be the same. Regardless, "my first pregnancy wasn't fun" is not a reason to bring another child into the world, especially considering the inherent risks of what I learned today is called a "geriatric pregnancy." (Hurtful. True, scientific, and not meant to make me feel like the crypt keeper, but STILL. Ouch.) But hey, you guys make your decision and best of luck to you.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She’s more determined to have one than you’re determined not to and there’s no reason to think she’ll change her mind. The question will be how easy is it for her to get pregnant this time and how far she’s willing to go to make that happen and how much time and money is put into it should that be necessary. Yes, there are women her age who don’t experience problems getting pregnant and having a healthy baby. But there are many who have a different outcome. How prepared is she if it turns out she’s one who’s not so fortunate. If you haven’t had that discussion, you need to.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Openminded said:


> She’s more determined to have one than you’re determined not to and there’s no reason to think she’ll change her mind. The question will be how easy is it for her to get pregnant this time and how far she’s willing to go to make that happen and how much time and money is put into it should that be necessary. Yes, there are women her age who don’t experience problems getting pregnant and having a healthy baby. But there are many who have a different outcome. How prepared is she if it turns out she’s one who’s not so fortunate. If you haven’t had that discussion, you need to.


Also I kinda doubt her parents will be as involved this time. She'll be on her own with a newborn. It's not a picnic. I love my son more than I knew it was possible to love, but he was a PITA when he was a baby. Little womb gremlin never slept. NEVER. SLEPT. Never. Infant care is a different ballgame when the staff is reduced to one; presumably you will be working so you'll need to sleep. Has she thought about that? Doesn't sound like it. Honestly, more and more, it sounds like she doesn't like you saying "no" and at this point it's more about making you do what she wants so she can feel like she can control you with her sexuality the way she has for decades than an actual desire for a baby. Maybe it's time for you to pull up your pants and give thinking with your big head a whirl. 😉 It's adorable you're so hot for her but this is grown up stuff.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Openminded said:


> She’s more determined to have one than you’re determined not to and there’s no reason to think she’ll change her mind. The question will be how easy is it for her to get pregnant this time and how far she’s willing to go to make that happen and how much time and money is put into it should that be necessary. Yes, there are women her age who don’t experience problems getting pregnant and having a healthy baby. But there are many who have a different outcome. How prepared is she if it turns out she’s one who’s not so fortunate. If you haven’t had that discussion, you need to.


She won’t change her mind. It’s her last chance. The OP will, to keep the marriage together. Hopefully, the wife will hire a nanny. ☺


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

OP I know you aren't interested in having a child in your 40s. I wouldn't be either (hell no) for a very very long list of reasons. And I'm a female. And I love babies. And I love being a mom.

Once some years ago (I was 40ish) I was in a shoe store with my son who was probably 8 or 9, and a newborn was in there and started that newborn cry (that really fast wah wah wah wah that only a newborn makes) and I have to tell you, I had a physical reaction, probably from being a mother myself, I broke out into a cold sweat and my heart rate sped up. _It was extremely unpleasant_. And I thought, no way at my age could I deal with a newborn. That newborn cry and getting up multiple times a night, at 40?? 

If your wife hasn't already researched pregnancy at 41, along with percentages and various outcomes, she should. It's not a walk in the park. 

A pregnancy now could ruin your lives and health and I'm not being dramatic.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

bobert said:


> To what end? How many kids do you think a marriage should have? As many as the woman wants? What about what the man wants? What about what is best for the family? There are two people in a marriage, not just the woman, and sorry but _sometimes_ _*people*_ are emotional and hormonal whackadoodles who shouldn't be making huge life changing decisions.


Fixed it for ya. And, you know why.

OP, this is such a difficult situation. The math can not be denied, though. Ask your wife how she justifies enslaving you for the next twenty years. I get that you love her, but she really does not have a golden vajayjay. She may not be playing with a full deck of cards and it is on you to get her to see a mental health pro to sort this out. How would you like to be raising a brand new human and dealing with a spouse who is not all mentally there. 

Protect the both of you. Good luck.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

I have so much to say and can’t keep up at the moment. Recent posts have been very helpful.

This morning she said it was never about withholding sex to trick me into pregnancy (she showed me her birth control and unless she’s been flushing her pills then she’s still taking it), it wasn’t even about trying to force me (although that was what she was trying to do whether she admits it or not), but in her eyes it was about proving how serious she was about it since I just wanted to dismiss it as a silly phase. Nobody ever takes her seriously, she says. She’s 40 years old and being treated like a child, like she can’t possibly know what she wants without being crazy. So sex was the best way she could think to show how serious she was. I can think of actual normal adult ways she probably could have tried to express it if I were her.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

She's angry. I don't know why, maybe because she sees herself aging, life passing her by, being a grandmother at 40. Who knows the reason, but she is angry and as long as she holds onto her anger, she doesn't have to take responsibility for where she is in life. She decided to risk having sex at 16. I know OP is taking responsibility for that, but she played a part as well. She could have said no. My wife did countless times while we were dating. She could have had another baby when she was younger, but she kept talking herself out of it. That's on her. So she is where she is in life because of decisions and choices that she made. But rather than take responsibility for that, she gets angry and takes it out on her husband.

I'm beginning to doubt that she even loves OP. Nobody intentionally hurts someone that they love and she has knowingly and consistently hurt her husband; not just once, but over and over for months. Some of the stuff that she has pulled is just fricking mean. She's like a child throwing a temper tantrum to get her way. It sounds like their discussions is all about what she wants. Well Boo Hoo. Nobody gets everything they want in life. Nobody!

I know that OP has said that he doesn't want to play tit for tat. But this has gone on long enough. If I woke up in his shoes, I would start raining on her parade. I would quit meeting her needs and when she brought up something that she wants OP to do, I would look at her and say Nope. She needs to understand the damage that she is causing this marriage and she needs to start feeling some of the pain that she is dishing out.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

From reading through the thread, and the more that comes out from you OP - sounds like your wife missed out on being a teen. Missed out on just being carefree. Missed out on part of her own childhood. Her parents swooped in to help back then and maybe they still see her, as you do, as that teenage girl who can’t make decisions. She’s an adult now, and sounds like she may want to relive part of her youth.

If that is where this is stemming from, that makes sense. Our childhoods shape us way more than we think. Not a valid reason to have a baby - but it makes sense.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> OP I know you aren't interested in having a child in your 40s. I wouldn't be either (hell no) for a very very long list of reasons. And I'm a female. And I love babies. And I love being a mom.
> 
> Once some years ago (I was 40ish) I was in a shoe store with my son who was probably 8 or 9, and a newborn was in there and started that newborn cry (that really fast wah wah wah wah that only a newborn makes) and I have to tell you, I had a physical reaction, probably from being a mother myself, I broke out into a cold sweat and my heart rate sped up. _It was extremely unpleasant_. And I thought, no way at my age could I deal with a newborn. That newborn cry and getting up multiple times a night, at 40??
> 
> ...


She’s researched it. She may sound a little nutty right now, but she’s an intelligent and educated person who isn’t unaware of the risks. She doesn’t want to believe that they’ll apply to her, so she’s being childish and overly optimistic there. I think she’s acknowledged that it would be different this time around, physically. I’m not sure she’s thinking rationally enough right now to be able to accept if something happened. This is why I think it’d be a good idea as has been suggested to get her to at least see her gynecologist so she could hear it face to face from a professional.

Miscarriages and all of that would obviously be devastating to her but I’m more concerned with things like genetic problems, developmental issues that would require lot of medical bills and essentially being caregivers to our child for the rest of our lives. Honestly, I’m scared of something terrible happening to her. I know chances are still relatively low but what if she developed preeclampsia and died? I don’t want to say it to her right now because it won’t help the discussions today but I’ve just had a bad feeling about something not very good happening to her as a result of pregnancy and I don’t know if that’s just my mind trying to convince me not to go along with her plan but thinking about it the past few days has sort of had me shaken. I’m normally not an anxious worrier like that.

Important to note that while you and I might have a certain knee jerk panic reaction to a newborn baby crying (for me it’s actually the toddlers having the meltdowns in the grocery store or screaming and pooping their pants while they’re sitting 1 row in front of me on a plane that makes my penis want to shrivel up and fall off), not everyone will feel that way regardless of what age they’ve reached. I know some older women (talking 50s plus) that would probably run to a baby crying and they don’t have the same feelings that you and I have at this time in our lives. No judgment to you because I feel the same way.

Aa a side note, she told me several years ago that her boobs still tingle every time a baby cries. I sort of didn’t want or need to know that.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

With the amount I’m typing in these posts maybe I’m the one who needs therapy. Geez.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Here's a question: can you all survive on your income alone? What's her workplace disability like, if she were to go on bedrest for months and months? What's her maternity leave look like? What are daycare costs like in your area? All of that times 2. Many advanced maternal age pregnancies are multiples. My friend had twins. One with downs one without. The downs child has a grave heart problem and has had multiple surgeries. 

And the above research is after the very real biological and medical issues and elevated risks that go along with conception and pregnancy at 41+. Also, what state are you in? Many old moms have miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies, both of which aren't getting treated correctly in some areas due to pulling Roe. 

I bet your wife hasn't approached any of the above in her thought process.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She’s researched it. She may sound a little nutty right now, but she’s an intelligent and educated person who isn’t unaware of the risks. She doesn’t want to believe that they’ll apply to her, so she’s being childish and overly optimistic there. I think she’s acknowledged that it would be different this time around, physically. I’m not sure she’s thinking rationally enough right now to be able to accept if something happened. This is why I think it’d be a good idea as has been suggested to get her to at least see her gynecologist so she could hear it face to face from a professional.
> 
> Miscarriages and all of that would obviously be devastating to her but I’m more concerned with things like genetic problems, developmental issues that would require lot of medical bills and essentially being caregivers to our child for the rest of our lives. Honestly, I’m scared of something terrible happening to her. I know chances are still relatively low but what if she developed preeclampsia and died? I don’t want to say it to her right now because it won’t help the discussions today but I’ve just had a bad feeling about something not very good happening to her as a result of pregnancy and I don’t know if that’s just my mind trying to convince me not to go along with her plan but thinking about it the past few days has sort of had me shaken. I’m normally not an anxious worrier like that.
> 
> ...


I'd run to a baby crying, too. I breastfed for a total of 4 YEARS, I hear a baby crying and I have the incredible urge to take it and nurse it.

I'm telling you, the NEWBORN cry is designed to illicit a response. When is the last time you heard a distressed newborn cry? It's quite something. I can't tell you how many mothers, true mothers at heart I have heard say, I'm glad that's not mine!

Taking care of a newborn is hard and I can't imagine doing it at 40.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I have so much to say and can’t keep up at the moment. Recent posts have been very helpful.
> 
> This morning she said it was never about withholding sex to trick me into pregnancy (she showed me her birth control and unless she’s been flushing her pills then she’s still taking it), it wasn’t even about trying to force me (although that was what she was trying to do whether she admits it or not), but in her eyes it was about proving how serious she was about it since I just wanted to dismiss it as a silly phase. Nobody ever takes her seriously, she says. She’s 40 years old and being treated like a child, like she can’t possibly know what she wants without being crazy. So sex was the best way she could think to show how serious she was. I can think of actual normal adult ways she probably could have tried to express it if I were her.


In your talk she was trying to convince you that she felt you weren't attracted to her anymore. You know that is a complete fabrication. If there's one thing she sure about, it's that you are still attracted to her or she wouldn't have tried weaponizing sex. And also there's no reason she would think you weren't since you were still having regular sex. So that was one manipulative thing she said to you to try to get you to feel sorry for her and cast the blame on you. She is very tricky.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> I'd run to a baby crying, too. I breastfed for a total of 4 YEARS, I hear a baby crying and I have the incredible urge to take it and nurse it.
> 
> I'm telling you, the NEWBORN cry is designed to illicit a response. When is the last time you heard a distressed newborn cry? It's quite something. I can't tell you how many mothers, true mothers at heart I have heard say, I'm glad that's not mine!
> 
> Taking care of a newborn is hard and I can't imagine doing it at 40.


Hey, there’s no need to try convince me of anything. We’re on the same side here. You seem very set on arguing all of the reasons why having a baby at 40+ is a terrible idea. You don’t have to argue these points with me. My wife’s not reading this forum.

At the same time, I think there are probably many things worse than having a baby at 40+. I’m not trying to suddenly take the side of the other team because I still don’t want to have a baby now but there are many people who have kids at or around 40 and they are happy and the kids are healthy. Just because there are increased chances of very real problems doesn’t mean everyone experiences those problems. If a couple is in agreement and they are aware and prepared for the risks then I won’t fault them.

There are a lot of negative statistics of a different sort about having a baby really young too. Different risks of course but there are plenty of real numbers to back them up too. I never wanted to be a parent at 18. I would have chosen abortion at the time. The thought of having a baby did not fill be with any sort of warm fuzzies, but I haven’t lived my life in misery since then. I forgot all about how much I didn’t want to have a kid the second he came out.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

p


CoffeeandTV said:


> I don’t think it has anything to do with her being jealous of everyone’s reactions to their pregnancy. Their pregnancy definitely triggered the current situation. If she actually had a secret desire for a baby brewing inside, this is what pushed it over the top no doubt about it.
> 
> I don’t think it’s positive attention she’s looking for. She’d like for her friends and family to be excited for her if she got pregnant now but it’s not the motivating factor. She said that when we found out a grandchild was on the way she suddenly realized she’s 40, she thought she had all the time in the world and just yesterday she was 35. Now she’s 40 and she’s been denying to herself that she completely wanted or should want another baby for a few years now but she realizes that she really does. She says her body needs it, it craves to be pregnant now. That sounded very weird to me but I remember another poster here saying something about her body screaming for another baby so I guess that’s what my wife’s feeling now. I guess if I can remove myself from the current conflict I can understand from my limited male perspective, since there have been times in the past where I’ve felt a very strong biological urge to knock my wife up, but it was purely a passing physical urge, not an all consuming 24/7 thought.
> 
> From what she said early this morning, she wants to fully experience pregnancy as a woman, to be able to be happy about it and celebrate it, to be excited. I’m not a woman but I’ve known enough pregnant ones at this point in my life to know that many of them might not enjoy the nausea and the bloating and the backaches but there is something unique to their female experience carrying a child and it’s a very primal and emotional thing for them at the same time. I’ve been around too many women. So she didn’t experience that before because she was so ashamed, she tried to hide it from most people, she really had a hard time with the judgment she felt. That was the worst part of pregnancy for her. Physically not one problem and she even said she didn’t feel pregnant, even with a huge belly, until the last month or so. She didn’t even get morning sickness. And even the first few years of motherhood were difficult because her parents were hovering over and had perfectly good and loving intentions but may have inadvertently taken some of the mothering experience away from her.


That is just as much about her still carrying resentment from way back when and thinking she can erase it by a redo. She said 25 years to redo it. What she needs to do instead is go to a therapist and work on her resentment.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I have so much to say and can’t keep up at the moment. Recent posts have been very helpful.
> 
> This morning she said it was never about withholding sex to trick me into pregnancy (she showed me her birth control and unless she’s been flushing her pills then she’s still taking it), it wasn’t even about trying to force me (although that was what she was trying to do whether she admits it or not), but in her eyes it was about proving how serious she was about it since I just wanted to dismiss it as a silly phase. Nobody ever takes her seriously, she says. She’s 40 years old and being treated like a child, like she can’t possibly know what she wants without being crazy. So sex was the best way she could think to show how serious she was. I can think of actual normal adult ways she probably could have tried to express it if I were her.


It's funny how she will just lie right to your face and you don't seem to call her on it. You'll tell us but that was what she was trying to do, but it doesn't sound like you're telling her that and that's who you need to be telling.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's funny how she will just lie right to your face and you don't seem to call her on it. You'll tell us but that was what she was trying to do, but it doesn't sound like you're telling her that and that's who you need to be telling.


I’m not relaying our back and forth conversations word for word. I told her exactly what I thought about what she was doing and that regardless of her conscious intention she was in fact using sex to try to control me. At the same time, I acknowledged that she probably genuinely felt like I wasn’t taking her seriously. Because guess what? I wasn’t. I don’t think she’s lying about trying to trick me into getting her pregnant. I think accusing her of doing that would set us backwards right now. She obviously sensed that I was thinking about it because she showed me her birth control pills. I’m going to trust her on that one and if I live to regret it that’s on me then.

A lot has yet to be said and discussed still. This morning was more of an emotional let it all out l, not a lot of calm rational discussion. I convinced her to take the day off as a mental health day. She never takes days off. I’m hoping that we can regroup and continue a more rational conversation tonight. There will be no more of the sex games, the stubbornness on both sides, the refusal to talk about things.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Wow 17k views! This could be a record.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

I may be wrong, but OP you have a LONG track record of giving your wife what she wants/desires. Your wife knows this.

She is dug in on this. You've also made a few comments that if push came to shove you'd give in and be on board to trying to have another baby.

That said if I were a betting man I'd say eventually she's going to wear you down on this and you're going to give her what she wants. You don't seem to be as committed to not having another baby as you are to being committed to giving your wife what she wants.

Whatever direction this plays out, one of you is more then likely to have resentment towards the other. If she doesn't get the baby she desperately desires she's going to blame you even if she says otherwise. If she does get the baby as time goes on the resentment in you will more then likely build as well.

Your wife is going to wear you down by her crying and pouting and as you've said you hate seeing this. Your wife knows EXACTLY what she's doing. She's playing the long game and she knows how to get what she wants.

I'm not saying this in a judgmental way. Just my assessment of reading between the lines on everything you've stated thus far. However this plays out I wish you nothing but the best.


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## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I don’t think it has anything to do with her being jealous of everyone’s reactions to their pregnancy.


My apologies, jealousy might not have been the proper word...



CoffeeandTV said:


> she wants to fully experience pregnancy as a woman, to be able to be happy about it and celebrate it, to be excited


But, this above, is exactly what I was referring to.

As you've mentioned, she said her body wants it. Her brain wants it because of what you posted above.

It still doesn't mean it's the right thing for you, for her, for your family. Only the two of you can decide it.

And none of that changes that she's behaved like a petulant child, irrespective of her motivations.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Dodged a bullet getting her to stay home today. Her co-worker brought her 4 month old baby into the office for a visit today. That was a very close call 😅 

Anyway @sideways you’re probably reading the fine print between the lines just fine. That’s all I can say. It’s hard to argue.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

@CoffeeandTV

Good to see you having heart-to-heart conversations with your wife now. This is a step in the right direction for both of you.

Your level-headed explanation of how your wife is feeling is very good as well. Even as a man, I felt that much of the negativity directed towards your (good) wife in this thread is completely unwarranted. Few could understand her situation correctly.

Suggestions for involving your MIL and subsequent push for 'marital counseling' are in line with the 'assumption' that you could not strike meaningful conversations with your wife, but your recent updates suggest that she is opening up to you which is very good for you. If the two of you can sort out your problem situation as a couple then this is for the best in your case.

Yes, it would be a good idea to take your wife to a trusted gynaecologist for professional evaluation and input about her condition and prospects. She is in good shape anyways.

Remember what I told you; keep an open mind and do not rule out the possibility of having another child with your wife [on your own]. This is not fair to her. Both you and your wife should arrive at a decision [as a couple]. A good wife is the single greatest asset to a man in his life. She is very likely to make a man's life beautiful in so many ways at home and otherwise.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She’s researched it. She may sound a little nutty right now, but she’s an intelligent and educated person who isn’t unaware of the risks. She doesn’t want to believe that they’ll apply to her, so she’s being childish and overly optimistic there. I think she’s acknowledged that it would be different this time around, physically. I’m not sure she’s thinking rationally enough right now to be able to accept if something happened. This is why I think it’d be a good idea as has been suggested to get her to at least see her gynecologist so she could hear it face to face from a professional.
> 
> Miscarriages and all of that would obviously be devastating to her but I’m more concerned with things like genetic problems, developmental issues that would require lot of medical bills and essentially being caregivers to our child for the rest of our lives. Honestly, I’m scared of something terrible happening to her. I know chances are still relatively low but what if she developed preeclampsia and died? I don’t want to say it to her right now because it won’t help the discussions today but I’ve just had a bad feeling about something not very good happening to her as a result of pregnancy and I don’t know if that’s just my mind trying to convince me not to go along with her plan but thinking about it the past few days has sort of had me shaken. I’m normally not an anxious worrier like that.
> 
> ...


Please be forewarned not all gynecologist are the same my own gynecologist tried to convince me to have a baby at 40 she felt very strongly that women could have babies to 45 very safely mainly because she herself or did it. So if you’re looking to take her to the gynecologist for reinforcement you may not find it there


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> Please be forewarned not all gynecologist are the same my own gynecologist tried to convince me to have a baby at 40 she felt very strongly that women could have babies 245 very safely mainly because she herself or did it. So if you’re looking to take her to the gynecologist for reinforcement you may not find it there


Thank you. I’m not expecting a gynecologist to try to persuade her not to have a baby. Not that I’m all that familiar with gynecologists but I imagine unless there is a medical reason, many gynecologists will assist and support a 40 year old woman who desires to become pregnant and have a health pregnancy, at least nowadays. I’m sure there are some that are the complete opposite and would try to convince women not to do it. Then there are others who will assist but they will be up front about the added risks. That’s be fine with me. Just another person, a profession, somebody who is not her husband, talking to her about the risks, what to expect, running some tests to give her a realistic idea at what she might be looking at as far as hormone levels and conceiving. _if_ there’d anything else going on with her, which I personally doubt, they might see signs or find something in bloodwork or hormone checks and then it wouldn’t just be me saying “maybe something’s wrong with you.” Of course yes it will suck if her doctor is the type hellbent in convincing 40+ year olds to have babies and convinces her risks aren’t a big deal. 

Also, I will not be taking her to the gynecologist. She’s not a child and doesn’t need me to take her. I am more than willing to go with her and will offer that but she’s an adult woman who can take herself and surely doesn’t want me “taking her” to her doctor. She feels like nobody takes her seriously and treats her like a child, so I’m going to be careful with saying things about me “taking her” to the doctor from her forward. She’s acting childish but I actually felt very bad when she said that.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Just throwing this out there, but if she doesn’t like being treated like a child, maybe she should stop acting like one.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Thank you. I’m not expecting a gynecologist to try to persuade her not to have a baby. Not that I’m all that familiar with gynecologists but I imagine unless there is a medical reason, many gynecologists will assist and support a 40 year old woman who desires to become pregnant and have a health pregnancy, at least nowadays. I’m sure there are some that are the complete opposite and would try to convince women not to do it. Then there are others who will assist but they will be up front about the added risks. That’s be fine with me. Just another person, a profession, somebody who is not her husband, talking to her about the risks, what to expect, running some tests to give her a realistic idea at what she might be looking at as far as hormone levels and conceiving. _if_ there’d anything else going on with her, which I personally doubt, they might see signs or find something in bloodwork or hormone checks and then it wouldn’t just be me saying “maybe something’s wrong with you.” Of course yes it will suck if her doctor is the type hellbent in convincing 40+ year olds to have babies and convinces her risks aren’t a big deal.
> 
> Also, I will not be taking her to the gynecologist. She’s not a child and doesn’t need me to take her. I am more than willing to go with her and will offer that but she’s an adult woman who can take herself and surely doesn’t want me “taking her” to her doctor. She feels like nobody takes her seriously and treats her like a child, so I’m going to be careful with saying things about me “taking her” to the doctor from her forward. She’s acting childish but I actually felt very bad when she said that.


I do agree quite hardly with she’s not a child. Being dismissed was one of the issues I brought on her behalf. However, I meant more like if you two at going to consider this as a team maybe you should go to hear things too and ask questions too. 

She shouldn’t get to make this decision alone. And this is a higher risk pregnancy.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Anyone heard of the “dating” app called modamily, for people who are looking to co-parent or just need a sperm donor?

Well, she found it and sent me a screenshot of her profile in the making. I guess she’s back to the games. She’s obviously still hurt about the find another baby daddy comment. But did you all even know such an app existed?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Anyone heard of the “dating” app called modafamily, for people who are looking to co-parent or just need a sperm donor?
> 
> Well, she found it and sent me a screenshot of her profile in the making. I guess she’s back to the games. She’s obviously still hurt about the find another baby daddy comment. But did you all even know such an app existed?


If she's seriously looking for a sperm donor, you need to get out of this marriage. 

If her personality is such that she is this far into game playing to get her way, same answer.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Anyone heard of the “dating” app called modafamily, for people who are looking to co-parent or just need a sperm donor?
> 
> Well, she found it and sent me a screenshot of her profile in the making. I guess she’s back to the games. She’s obviously still hurt about the find another baby daddy comment. But did you all even know such an app existed?


Lol. Your wife is indeed special.

taunting
Weaponizing sex against you.
Flat out telling you she’s punishing you.
Coming up with nonsense/manipulation to get her way and guilt trip you into getting her pregnant. Now this. 

I can’t imagine knowingly getting such a woman pregnant.


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## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Anyone heard of the “dating” app called modamily, for people who are looking to co-parent or just need a sperm donor?
> 
> Well, she found it and sent me a screenshot of her profile in the making. I guess she’s back to the games. She’s obviously still hurt about the find another baby daddy comment. But did you all even know such an app existed?


My friend, it's time to tell her she's dangerously close to crossing the Rubicon and it's not funny anymore.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> If she's seriously looking for a sperm donor, you need to get out of this marriage.
> 
> If her personality is such that she is this far into game playing to get her way, same answer.


She is turning the screws. She WILL get pregnant. If not by OP then by someone else. He really never had any choice. Its her way or the highway.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I often wonder what the mindset is of people that want late in life children....

Things are such now, where kids require so much of an investment of time, effort, money, etc...It wasn't like when I was a kid, we just made our own fun and activity and if we wanted to go to college, we'd be paying for it.. now its different...Camps, preschools, athletics, gymnastics, karate, skating, you name it...And a graduate and post graduate level education is expected to be provided by parents..

Tha average life expectancy didn't go up to 130...You are pretty much (hopefully)going to make it to 70 or so.., then unmercifully(and hopefully slowly) wind down to shyt and die....That's the stone-cold reality...

What that means is you will never be able to take your foot off the gas and slow down until you are essentially done with life..... People with gobs of money I suppose are more capable of pulling this off, but for the average person, its going to be long and hard...


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Anyone heard of the “dating” app called modafamily, for people who are looking to co-parent or just need a sperm donor?
> 
> Well, she found it and sent me a screenshot of her profile in the making. I guess she’s back to the games. She’s obviously still hurt about the find another baby daddy comment. But did you all even know such an app existed?


No, but I checked the website now.

Your 'find another baby daddy' statement [issued to her] was in extremely poor taste and cannot be excused. This is something that your wife will not forget, unfortunately.

But you should ask her WHY has she opened a profile on a sperm donor platform. Tell her that this is "going too far." Tell her to CLOSE this profile and show you proof. Draw a line here.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Anyone heard of the “dating” app called modamily, for people who are looking to co-parent or just need a sperm donor?
> 
> Well, she found it and sent me a screenshot of her profile in the making. I guess she’s back to the games. She’s obviously still hurt about the find another baby daddy comment. But did you all even know such an app existed?


Your wife is totally off the deep end.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> No, but I checked the website now.
> 
> Your 'find another baby daddy' statement [issued to her] was in extremely poor taste and cannot be excused. This is something that your wife will not forget, unfortunately.
> 
> But you should ask her WHY has she opened a profile on a sperm donor platform. Tell her that this is "going too far." Tell her to CLOSE this profile.


Why are you suggesting this horribly aggressive, controlling behavior to his sad, hurt, abused wife? She’s not his child. He can’t TELL her to do anything. She’s an adult with a mind if her own. Princess has a right to have a baby. If he didn’t abusively tell her that he wasn’t the only man who could provide her with a baby, she wouldn’t have to look up other Sperm donors. 

If he’d just be a little more patient with her, everything would work out fine. ❤


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Livvie said:


> Here's a question: can you all survive on your income alone? What's her workplace disability like, if she were to go on bedrest for months and months? What's her maternity leave look like? What are daycare costs like in your area? All of that times 2. Many advanced maternal age pregnancies are multiples. My friend had twins. One with downs one without. The downs child has a grave heart problem and has had multiple surgeries.
> 
> And the above research is after the very real biological and medical issues and elevated risks that go along with conception and pregnancy at 41+. Also, what state are you in? Many old moms have miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies, both of which aren't getting treated correctly in some areas due to pulling Roe.
> 
> I bet your wife hasn't approached any of the above in her thought process.


These are excellent questions. I would also ask in general how she envisions life in general. What happens to the sex life? Retirement? How does she plan to team with you to raise a kid and work her job?

Your stamina is invariably lower than when you were young adults. Your jobs are harder. You have a house to maintain. Many ladies take a step back from their careers and other responsibilities when a kid comes. I suspect the answer to those questions is either "I don't know" or some form of "I'm going to enjoy this baby and you'll have to figure out the rest".


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Ok, I've been defending her but screenshots of sperm donor sites? Ridiculous..

I think it's time to play hardball here. Print up divorce papers and leave them on the table for her. This is out of control, so it's time for you to go on the offensive here.

Tell her you'll get divorced, she can get knocked up by whoever she wants, and she can raise the baby alone.

It's time to put a stop to this. Call her bluff.


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## 343359 (Apr 8, 2020)

I don’t know if you would see this but, please ignore the messages of divorcing your wife over this situation! It seem to me that she might be going through menopause mid stages! My mother in law did around your wife’s age, and her hormones was all over the place. She was highly emotional and would easily cry out of the blue! Her mood swings were all over the place. Your wife estrogen levels maybe off and causing her to be more emotional about her life and choices! She definitely needs to see someone. You both sound like great people! She need to see her obgyn! Tell her if she is really considering having a baby she need to talk to her doctor and few counseling sections not because it’s what you want but so someone else can help her come to terms with what’s going on with her. Handle the situation within love and kindness it will make difference with how she respond. Sometimes it takes an outside source for your partner to see things more clearly! I pray it all works out!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I think I’ll come back to this thread when the OP confirms he is having the baby 😊 Good luck with the nappies!


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> Why are you suggesting this horribly aggressive, controlling behavior to his sad, hurt, abused wife? She’s not his child. He can’t TELL her to do anything. She’s an adult with a mind if her own. Princess has a right to have a baby. If he didn’t abusively tell her that he wasn’t the only man who could provide her with a baby, she wouldn’t have to look up other Sperm donors.
> 
> If he’d just be a little more patient with her, everything would work out fine. ❤


If you are in disagreement with your wife about having another baby and tell her that she can have it with another man but you, how will she take it? There is a limit to what a husband should say to his wife even in the thick of an argument. This kind of statement can damage even a good marriage. 

On the flip side, I have told OP to strongly object to his wife opening a profile on a sperm donor platform.

I am looking at this matter from both sides and pointing out the WRONG where I see one.

Two wrongs do not make a right, of-course.

WE shall see how OP's situation will continue to evolve. But I am not jumping to a conclusion yet.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

I thought we were done with the games. We had a lot more to work out but I thought we had reached a turning point and could now work on talking this through, even if it took many conversations to get there. She said she was done with the sex games. Now it’s onto different games or “jokes” as she’s now calling it.

The sperm donor thing doesn’t scare me for a second because any guy posting on an app like that is a complete loser. She knows it too and immediately started to backpedal and tell me what creeps they all are and how hot and attractive I am. I’m not intimidated by a bunch of 40 year old virgins and creeps with breeding fetishes on a sperm donor dating app. I’m frustrated because we agreed the silly games and back and forth was all over now.

She’s only hurting herself now. Every time I get closer to just giving her what she wants she does something to really irritate me and push me further back over to my side.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I thought we were done with the games. We had a lot more to work out but I thought we had reached a turning point and could now work on talking this through, even if it took many conversations to get there. She said she was done with the sex games. Now it’s onto different games or “jokes” as she’s now calling it.
> 
> The sperm donor thing doesn’t scare me for a second because any guy posting on an app like that is a complete loser. She knows it too and immediately started to backpedal and tell me what creeps they all are and how hot and attractive I am. I’m not intimidated by a bunch of 40 year old virgins and creeps with breeding fetishes on a sperm donor dating app. I’m frustrated because we agreed the silly games and back and forth was all over now.
> 
> She’s only hurting herself now. Every time I get closer to just giving her what she wants she does something to really irritate me and push me further back over to my side.


Tell your wife in very clear terms to STOP playing silly games with you or she will REGRET it.

On the flip side, tell her that you are willing to discuss 'all possibilities' with her *but* like ADULTS. From now on.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> If you are in disagreement with your wife about having another baby and tell her that she can have it with another man but you, how will she take it? There is a limit to what a husband should say to his wife even in the thick of an argument. This kind of statement can damage even a good marriage.
> 
> On the flip side, I have told OP to strongly object to his wife opening a profile on a sperm donor platform.
> 
> ...


It’s past time that OP laid the hammer down on his wife running over him roughshod.

I see the comment OP made about him not being the only man who could be her baby daddy as the ONLY mistake he’s made here. Otherwise he’s been ultra patient, thoughtful, and introspective.

After 3 months of being treated like ****, he came here because he doesn’t know what to do. It’s not an easy problem to solve.
The tool has to fit the problem. 

His wife has been beating on him with a sledge hammer and has now brought out what I’d consider a D-6 bulldozer on him.

She needs to be brought back to reality fast.
He needs to show her what it looks like to be looking for a sperm donor by getting the f out of this relationship. If he continues the weak, kid gloves attitude with this he is going to be divorced because his wife is bulldozing him. She will continue to push until he breaks.

what this woman is showing him after 25 years of being a loyal, loving husband that provides for her every need——- and a anything BUT love.

She doesn’t need patience and kindness at this point, she needs a wake up call. 
Maybe I’m wrong. But she just keeps escalating while he searches for a way to appease her wrath.

whats next, is he going to come home from work and find her screwing another man and she’s turning around and giving him the same smirk she’s been giving him when he walks in?
That’s about all there is left for her to pull.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Anyone heard of the “dating” app called modamily, for people who are looking to co-parent or just need a sperm donor?
> 
> Well, she found it and sent me a screenshot of her profile in the making. I guess she’s back to the games. She’s obviously still hurt about the find another baby daddy comment. But did you all even know such an app existed?


Good grief. This woman is a piece of work.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Ok, I've been defending her but screenshots of sperm donor sites? Ridiculous..
> 
> I think it's time to play hardball here. Print up divorce papers and leave them on the table for her. This is out of control, so it's time for you to go on the offensive here.
> 
> ...


This. All day this. The “get another man” comment wasn’t great, but good lord, after months of this you’re due an outburst or two. The sperm donor site is hateful, spiteful, petty, childish and a couple of words the profanity filter won’t care for. Tell her she has no business becoming a mother until she is mature enough not to need one. (Said in my mom voice)

Call her bluff. Fearlessly. She is bullying you and this stops now.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Now 41 pages in and she’s still not pregnant and OP still not getting much sex. I’ll check back in at page 60.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

RebuildingMe said:


> Now 41 pages in and she’s still not pregnant and OP still not getting much sex. I’ll check back in at page 60.


Well we had sex this morning. Thank god. Hopefully no pregnancy. Other than that, not much has changed apparently. I just want my life back now..


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Well we had sex this morning. Thank god. Hopefully no pregnancy. Other than that, not much has changed apparently. I just want my life back now..


She is playing you like an old fiddle, dude. She’s wearing you down and you’re falling for it. Use. The. Big. Head.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Tell your wife in very clear terms to STOP playing silly games with you or she will REGRET it.
> 
> On the flip side, telk her that you are willing to discuss 'all possibilities' with her *but* like ADULTS. From now on.


"Or she will REGRET it"???

I can't wait to hear your suggestions on how she'll "REGRET it".


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

sideways said:


> "Or she will REGRET it"???
> 
> I can't wait to hear your suggestions on how she'll "REGRET it".
> 
> View attachment 90128


Even this had me going, can’t lie.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Well we had sex this morning. Thank god. Hopefully no pregnancy. Other than that, not much has changed apparently. I just want my life back now..


41 pages and I missed that you had sex this morning. Congratulations. Sex with this woman sounds absolutely wonderful. I always love having sex when my woman is wanting to conceive and I don’t want another baby. It’s mind blowing.
Dude, control the birth. Get snipped. It’s like a 30 minute procedure.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> Please be forewarned not all gynecologist are the same my own gynecologist tried to convince me to have a baby at 40 she felt very strongly that women could have babies to 45 very safely mainly because she herself or did it. So if you’re looking to take her to the gynecologist for reinforcement you may not find it there


Yeah. Going to a obstetrician is just going to be a sign that she's going through with it and that he's saying he accepts that.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> She is playing you like an old fiddle, dude. She’s wearing you down and you’re falling for it. Use. The. Big. Head.


The sex was really good. REALLY GOOD. If she gets pregnant that’s my fault because I chose to trust her.

Big head is having trouble functioning today but right now she’s not making me feel bad or compassionate for her cause at all. Will I have sex with her when I get home tonight if she lets me and hasn’t downed half a bottle of tequila? Yes I probably will. I’m already thinking about it and have been for most of the day.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

sideways said:


> "Or she will REGRET it"???
> 
> I can't wait to hear your suggestions on how she'll "REGRET it".
> 
> View attachment 90128


It's a MAN's flexing his muscles kind of talk. The voice deepens as well. I'll take those popcorns as rightfully mine.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Anyone heard of the “dating” app called modamily, for people who are looking to co-parent or just need a sperm donor?
> 
> Well, she found it and sent me a screenshot of her profile in the making. I guess she’s back to the games. She’s obviously still hurt about the find another baby daddy comment. But did you all even know such an app existed?


Well, wasn't that mature of her. I think the baby daddy comment was fine. I mean, you had to let her know some way you didn't want to be it. She's vindictive, not hurt. Why does she get to even say she's hurt when she's the one been doing ALL the hurting and mean things?

She is so manipulative and mean. I'm sorry. I know that's not how you choose to see it. You'd rather see her sad and sincere. 

No. Sorry. Too many petty games and too much petulance -- and she doesn't care at all what you want.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

CoffeeandTV said:


> The sex was really good. REALLY GOOD. If she gets pregnant that’s my fault because I chose to trust her.
> 
> Big head is having trouble functioning today but right now she’s not making me feel bad or compassionate for her cause at all. Will I have sex with her when I get home tonight if she lets me and hasn’t downed half a bottle of tequila? Yes I probably will. I’m already thinking about it and have been for most of the day.


How long have you’ve been married? How “REALLY GOOD” could the sex have been that you’d risk knocking her up? She’s your wife. You’ve probably had sex with her a thousand times. Ugh. 🤦‍♂️


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> The sex was really good. REALLY GOOD. If she gets pregnant that’s my fault because I chose to trust her.
> 
> Big head is having trouble functioning today but right now she’s not making me feel bad or compassionate for her cause at all. Will I have sex with her when I get home tonight if she lets me and hasn’t downed half a bottle of tequila? Yes I probably will. I’m already thinking about it and have been for most of the day.


Adult men are not blinded by their penises. I will mom voice you, too. 😠She knows that you will follow her around with your pants around your ankles and give her whatever she wants. It’s considerably less adorable now that you are talking about having a baby you don’t want because you can’t focus. I do not buy it. You are not an animal and you are not a child. This is serious. Grow up, both of you, and when she starts working out naked or whatever nonsense she does instead of having an adult conversation think about the gravity of a human life and how irresponsible it is to have a baby just to “win.” As soon as caring for that child gets tough she will be on to the next thing and you’ll have this person who needs both of you to be stable adults. I’m not getting a “stable adult” vibe from either of you.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> The sex was really good. REALLY GOOD. If she gets pregnant that’s my fault because I chose to trust her.
> 
> Big head is having trouble functioning today but right now she’s not making me feel bad or compassionate for her cause at all. Will I have sex with her when I get home tonight if she lets me and hasn’t downed half a bottle of tequila? Yes I probably will. I’m already thinking about it and have been for most of the day.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Evinrude58 said:


> View attachment 90129
> View attachment 90129


Today’s husband…


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

RebuildingMe said:


> How long have you’ve been married? How “REALLY GOOD” could the sex have been that you’d risk knocking her up? She’s your wife. You’ve probably had sex with her a thousand times. Ugh. 🤦‍♂️


I’ve been having sex with her for 25 years and it’s always good, but sometimes like this morning when she’s trying to show me how sorry she is it’s especially great. Plus since we were closing in on 3 weeks without, it felt even better.

If she gets pregnant I realize they’ll be nobody to blame but myself. I could not masturbate one more day!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

RebuildingMe said:


> Now 41 pages in and she’s still not pregnant and OP still not getting much sex. I’ll check back in at page 60.


*Don't bother. Smart alec comments are not required or appreciated.*


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’ve been having sex with her for 25 years and it’s always good, but sometimes* like this morning when she’s trying to show me how sorry she is it’s especially great. *Plus since we were closing in on 3 weeks without, it felt even better.
> 
> If she gets pregnant I realize they’ll be nobody to blame but myself. I could not masturbate one more day!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> The sex was really good. REALLY GOOD. If she gets pregnant that’s my fault because I chose to trust her.
> 
> Big head is having trouble functioning today but right now she’s not making me feel bad or compassionate for her cause at all. Will I have sex with her when I get home tonight if she lets me and hasn’t downed half a bottle of tequila? Yes I probably will. I’m already thinking about it and have been for most of the day.


Use condoms.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’ve been having sex with her for 25 years and it’s always good, but sometimes like this morning when she’s trying to show me how sorry she is it’s especially great. Plus since we were closing in on 3 weeks without, it felt even better.
> 
> If she gets pregnant I realize they’ll be nobody to blame but myself. I could not masturbate one more day!


Okay, Dad.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’ve been having sex with her for 25 years and it’s always good, but sometimes like this morning when she’s trying to show me how sorry she is it’s especially great. Plus since we were closing in on 3 weeks without, it felt even better.
> 
> If she gets pregnant I realize they’ll be nobody to blame but myself. I could not masturbate one more day!


Now I feel confused, because if she’s trying to apologize and go back to normal that’s… progress? I’m with @DownByTheRiver, condoms. Wrap it up, pal. 😉


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

How sorry she is? Was that before or after she showed you where she can get a sperm donor online?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> How sorry she is? Was that before or after she showed you where she can get a sperm donor online?


It was obviously before. You know what? Maybe it was a mistake. It felt right at the time and I think we both needed it, not just on a physical level. She swore to me she was still on birth control. I’m not regretting it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> How does one force somebody to get professional help evaluation when they don’t see a need themselves (and they are in fact incredibly insulted by the idea) and they aren’t doing anything that makes them an obvious danger to themselves or others? Suggesting she just talk to a professional to help her with her feelings, an unbiased person just to listen if nothing else, dug me an even deeper hole.
> 
> I don’t have time to respond much right now. We’ve been up since 4 am talking and I’m exhausted. I can’t even get up at 4 am and talk for a few hours without feeling physically and emotionally exhausted. How am I supposed to function after being up all night with a baby? Short version of the story is my refusal to have a baby is being taken very personal and reflective of my overall love, attraction, and sexual desire for her. She’s very hurt because it means that I think she’s old (which I do not) and not a sexual viable person anymore (WHAT?!) There’s a lot more. A lot.


You don't force her but you explain you hope she isn't in her right mind because that would indicate she is destroying her marriage for some pretty selfish reasons.

She is showing every indication of some sort of crisis as her behavior and decision making have changed so much in such a short time.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She signed up to be a sperm donor recipient….


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Hmm. She's cutting you off for a few months. I'd tell her I'm outsourcing her services. And getting a vasectomy due to lack of trust.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> She signed up to be a sperm donor recipient….
> 
> View attachment 90132


She’s not seriously signing up. If she actually made a real account and was interacting with men on there then bye. But she’s just pretending in an effort to tease me and to try to get back at me for the comment I made. I can’t ever see her being desperate enough to sleep with a random slimeball from a sperm donor app or worse yet, using a turkey baster to put his sperm inside her. The thought makes my stomach turn and in reality I’m sure it does the same to her. Yeah, we’re not talking about a sperm bank, which would also be grounds for divorce, but just random men. Again, 40 year old virgins and perverts with breeding kinks.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> Heh heh. Disgusting huh?
> You’re a pretty good manipulator in trying to label others advice which you disagree with by using beautiful descriptive names.
> 
> She’s coercing him with sex or the lack there if, to have a baby against his good judgement and desire. What descriptive word would you use for that, oh enlightened one?


Much of the advise given here is guaranteed to end this marriage if he takes it. Calling his wife names won't help.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Married but Happy said:


> Hmm. She's cutting you off for a few months. I'd tell her I'm outsourcing her services. And getting a vasectomy due to lack of trust.


Yeh that will help🤦


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

RebuildingMe said:


> 41 pages and I missed that you had sex this morning. Congratulations. Sex with this woman sounds absolutely wonderful. I always love having sex when my woman is wanting to conceive and I don’t want another baby. It’s mind blowing.
> Dude, control the birth. Get snipped. It’s like a 30 minute procedure.


But it takes 2 weeks at least for it to be confirmed. She would be totally pist if he got snipped. Besides, he already said he was fine having another baby if that was the only way to stay together. So maybe the sex this morning broke the ice and they are on their way to having another child.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> Much of the advise given here is guaranteed to end this marriage if he takes it. Calling his wife names won't help.


my thoughts are that allowing her outrageously bad behavior to go unchecked is the way to doom the marriage. Now that she’s figured out he’s hooked good enough to tolerate bs behavior, it will keep getting worse until he’s so unhappy he won’t care if he divorces.

At this point, he should do something to shake her up. She knows who is running things now. And she’s shown the propensity to enjoy abusing her power in the relationship.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> She signed up to be a sperm donor recipient….
> 
> View attachment 90132


Darby!!!!!


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Anyone heard of the “dating” app called modamily, for people who are looking to co-parent or just need a sperm donor?
> 
> Well, she found it and sent me a screenshot of her profile in the making. I guess she’s back to the games. She’s obviously still hurt about the find another baby daddy comment. But did you all even know such an app existed?


This is the most-outrageous post in the thread, and it just flies by?

It is wrong on so many levels. You are wrong to have told her to find another baby daddy. And she is so extremely far out of line sending you a screenshot of something that represents outsourcing one of the most basic reasons for marriage. In some ways it's an act of unfaithfulness, almost an emotional affair at this point. It's a boundary violation.

And if either of your don't recognize boundary issues when they so blatantly appear, then this whole baby thing is that wake-up call. You should have a conversation that has nothing whatsoever to do with the specifics of having a baby, and instead focus on, essentially, rules of engagement and trust. 

You had an opportunity, when she sent you that screenshot, to say whoa, part of this is my fault, we need to put a stop to the way we're treating each other right now. Marriages don't survive this type of thing.

But instead you decided not to rock the boat, hoping for sex later on? Which it turns out you got, hot & heavy? This is wrong on so many levels.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Midlife crisis and hormonal imbalance... 

I went through one at 39. The idea of turning 40 and getting older without a purpose (in my head) gave me depression and anxiety. Holy cow I drove my poor husband crazy.

Looking back, I was just going through a phase of grief and self discovery. It was a new stage of my life! I feel so dumb remembering how ugly, old, and unimportant I felt. 🤦🏻‍♀️

I would suggest waiting until your son has the baby. She can help the new mom adjusting to motherhood and figure out if she is really ready to become a mom again (yikes!) 

What's the plan in her mind? How's she gonna manage work and motherhood? How's gonna watch the baby while both of you work? 

I just can't imagine starting all over again. I could adopt a school aged kid, but a newborn? No way! Even though my body goes crazy when I see or hear a baby... Our bodies and hearts are dumb sometimes!


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Casual Observer said:


> This is the most-outrageous post in the thread, and it just flies by?
> 
> It is wrong on so many levels. You are wrong to have told her to find another baby daddy. And she is so extremely far out of line sending you a screenshot of something that represents outsourcing one of the most basic reasons for marriage. In some ways it's an act of unfaithfulness, almost an emotional affair at this point. It's a boundary violation.
> 
> ...


We had sex early in the morning, after a 2+ hour long conversation, lots of tears, and what I thought were some heartfelt apologies from hot sides. She sent me the screenshot much later in the day when I was at work and she was at home most likely still putting. She meant it in a bratty, childish, teasing way, but not in a serious one.

When I got home I told her that it wasn’t cool, that I get it was somehow funny to her and obviously she was still upset that I wasn’t doing what she was asking but sending me screenshots of a sperm donor finder app was going too far, that believe it or not I have feelings too and it was hurtful, especially after I thought things were starting to improve after our talk earlier that morning. If she wants me to take heR seriously right now then she can’t do things like that. In turn, I won’t say or do things I don’t mean. I specifically apologized for the comment about finding another man to have a baby with. I didn’t mean it so I shouldn’t have said it. She’s not my slave and she can leave at any time to go find another man and that part just the truth but it would break my heart if she did that. I want to be the only man she ever has children with and it’s killing me to not be able to just give her what she wants right now, but I cannot in good conscience agree to it because it’s a very sudden (to me) request and there are a lot of logistics that we’d need to discuss. She says babies aren’t about logistics. Well, they are when it’s a total and permanent change to your life plans. I admitted it, that I will consider talking about it but there can be no more mean spirited teasing, no more using sex against me, and to stop acting like a child. I told her that she can freak out and accuse me of calling her crazy again but I am concerned about how out of character she seems lately and that it doesn’t feel right to even agree to such a plan as the one she has when she’s acting so unlike her normal self. I was careful not to say wanting a baby was crazy, but that the sudden intense desire and more so her behavior regarding the sex withholding and the extreme childishness was worrying to me. She just sat and listened and at the end she seemed very…almost embarrassed? And then said “sorry.”

Hopefully this was sincere and sensitive enough to her and whatever she’s going through but not too passive and weak. I don’t think I’m a passive or weak man at all. So I really like doing things for my wife and fulfilling all her wishes and desires. Kill me. When you have a woman who loves you, desires you, supports you, and you can’t imagine ever wanting to be married to a different person, why wouldn’t you want to do everything you could for them? No, I’m not going to start threatening divorce or passive aggressively leave divorce papers on the table. It’s tempting just to shake things up a bit and to get a different sort of reaction, but it’s not me. How can I ask her to stop acting like this current strange version of herself but then proceed to act like a totally different man than the person she’s been married to all these years? I can see how threatening divorce (especially if you actually intend to follow through) would illicit a reaction but just doesn’t feel like the right thing for me to do. There are things that I’d divorce her over. This just isn’t one of them (yet). I’m not a simp. I have a high sex drive and a very attractive wife who I love very much and who normally enjoys showing me how much she loves and appreciates me through sex (as well as other ways). Of course I love having sex with her and I want it all the time. I don’t follow her around with my pants around my ankles.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She says babies aren’t about logistics. Well, they are when it’s a total and permanent change to your life plans. I admitted it, that I will consider


Let's stop here for a sec... let's talk about the baby. How do you feel about bringing an unwanted baby (by you, obviously) into the world? How do you think the child will feel if he/she finds out? Every time you have a problem with the child, you will curse your choice and wish you never agreed to it. You will resent the child for ruining your life. And the child will blame his/her parents for doing this. Also, your wife: how can she go ahead with a pregnancy when she knows that the father of the child DOES NOT want the baby? What kind on warped mentality is this? Is this a good idea? To be honest, I'm a bit baffled by all of this...


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

CoffeeandTV said:


> We had sex early in the morning, after a 2+ hour long conversation, lots of tears, and what I thought were some heartfelt apologies from hot sides. She sent me the screenshot much later in the day when I was at work and she was at home most likely still putting. She meant it in a bratty, childish, teasing way, but not in a serious one.
> 
> When I got home I told her that it wasn’t cool, that I get it was somehow funny to her and obviously she was still upset that I wasn’t doing what she was asking but sending me screenshots of a sperm donor finder app was going too far, that believe it or not I have feelings too and it was hurtful, especially after I thought things were starting to improve after our talk earlier that morning. If she wants me to take heR seriously right now then she can’t do things like that. In turn, I won’t say or do things I don’t mean. I specifically apologized for the comment about finding another man to have a baby with. I didn’t mean it so I shouldn’t have said it. She’s not my slave and she can leave at any time to go find another man and that part just the truth but it would break my heart if she did that. I want to be the only man she ever has children with and it’s killing me to not be able to just give her what she wants right now, but I cannot in good conscience agree to it because it’s a very sudden (to me) request and there are a lot of logistics that we’d need to discuss. She says babies aren’t about logistics. Well, they are when it’s a total and permanent change to your life plans. I admitted it, that I will consider talking about it but there can be no more mean spirited teasing, no more using sex against me, and to stop acting like a child. I told her that she can freak out and accuse me of calling her crazy again but I am concerned about how out of character she seems lately and that it doesn’t feel right to even agree to such a plan as the one she has when she’s acting so unlike her normal self. I was careful not to say wanting a baby was crazy, but that the sudden intense desire and more so her behavior regarding the sex withholding and the extreme childishness was worrying to me. She just sat and listened and at the end she seemed very…almost embarrassed? And then said “sorry.”
> 
> Hopefully this was sincere and sensitive enough to her and whatever she’s going through but not too passive and weak. I don’t think I’m a passive or weak man at all. So I really like doing things for my wife and fulfilling all her wishes and desires. Kill me. When you have a woman who loves you, desires you, supports you, and you can’t imagine ever wanting to be married to a different person, why wouldn’t you want to do everything you could for them? No, I’m not going to start threatening divorce or passive aggressively leave divorce papers on the table. It’s tempting just to shake things up a bit and to get a different sort of reaction, but it’s not me. How can I ask her to stop acting like this current strange version of herself but then proceed to act like a totally different man than the person she’s been married to all these years? I can see how threatening divorce (especially if you actually intend to follow through) would illicit a reaction but just doesn’t feel like the right thing for me to do. There are things that I’d divorce her over. This just isn’t one of them (yet). I’m not a simp. I have a high sex drive and a very attractive wife who I love very much and who normally enjoys showing me how much she loves and appreciates me through sex (as well as other ways). Of course I love having sex with her and I want it all the time. I don’t follow her around with my pants around my ankles.


I think you're doing a great job now of communicating with your wife. What you said sounds like a good way to show her she needs to stop acting out and that you're ready to discuss this like adults. 

I've got to say, I really like both you and your wife a lot. The two of you remind me of myself and my husband in age (I'm 40 and my husband 43.) and number of years together (25). The only difference is the pregnancy scare I had at 16 turned out to be just a late period. We didn't have our first child for another dozen years. And we've had more kids since then (and one on the way--despite being "old" by a lot of people's standards on this thread!). I like our "story," but I also like yours--the way you overcame an unintended teen pregnancy and made a good marriage and family from it. The only question is what is the next chapter in your story. A second baby 25 years later, when you're in a stable marriage, sounds like a fun adventure to me. (But then I love babies and don't find them exhausting or ruining to my life like several people on this thread do.) However, I also think the next two decades focused just on the two of you sounds fun, too. Honestly, I don't think you can go wrong here. Either decision, if both of you can come to an agreement on, is going to lead to an amazing life! You've got a wife you love and desire and want to make happy, who is spite of her recent teasing behavior, loves you and has stuck by you for her entire adult life. As long as you keep talking (in a way that is respectful of each other's feelings) and showing your love for each other, you're going to get through this tough time and your next chapter (whichever one that is) is going to be GREAT!


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Andy1001 said:


> She’s using sex as a weapon. That’s a deal breaker to me.


Unacceptable is my word for your predicament. Tell her you will have to seek companionship elsewhere.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Melinda82 said:


> I think you're doing a great job now of communicating with your wife. What you said sounds like a good way to show her she needs to stop acting out and that you're ready to discuss this like adults.
> 
> I've got to say, I really like both you and your wife a lot. The two of you remind me of myself and my husband in age (I'm 40 and my husband 43.) and number of years together (25). The only difference is the pregnancy scare I had at 16 turned out to be just a late period. We didn't have our first child for another dozen years. And we've had more kids since then (and one on the way--despite being "old" by a lot of people's standards on this thread!). I like our "story," but I also like yours--the way you overcame an unintended teen pregnancy and made a good marriage and family from it. The only question is what is the next chapter in your story. A second baby 25 years later, when you're in a stable marriage, sounds like a fun adventure to me. (But then I love babies and don't find them exhausting or ruining to my life like several people on this thread do.) However, I also think the next two decades focused just on the two of you sounds fun, too. Honestly, I don't think you can go wrong here. Either decision, if both of you can come to an agreement on, is going to lead to an amazing life! You've got a wife you love and desire and want to make happy, who is spite of her recent teasing behavior, loves you and has stuck by you for her entire adult life. As long as you keep talking (in a way that is respectful of each other's feelings) and showing your love for each other, you're going to get through this tough time and your next chapter (whichever one that is) is going to be GREAT!


Their "story" up until about three months ago I could certainly see it as being "likeable".

The last three months there is nothing to "like" about his wife and her actions.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Livvie said:


> And to be taken into account, sperm quality also decreases with age…


Wait what?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

@CoffeeandTV , didnt your wife say she was wanting another child since age 35 but never mentioned it until the DIL became pregnant three months ago? Wife and I talked for months before conceiving any of ours. If your wife had been “chatting” you up about wanting to get pregnant beginning five years ago, do you think your response would have been different?


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

🐎🔨


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> Wait what?


Quality of sperm tends to begin descreasing, higher (yet still overall small risk) for chromosomal or genetic disorders, lower volume, slower motility. Saying all that is enough for me to say “oh yeah? I’ll prove you wrong!” Maybe my wife has taken the wrong approach this whole time and if she would have come at it from that angle she’d already have a due date circled on the calendar. Yes, I’m probably really that easy some days.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> @CoffeeandTV , didnt your wife say she was wanting another child since age 35 but never mentioned it until the DIL became pregnant three months ago? Wife and I talked for months before conceiving any of ours. If your wife had been “chatting” you up about wanting to get pregnant beginning five years ago, do you think your response would have been different?


If she’d been talking about it for 5 years it wouldn’t have seemed so sudden and like a major reaction to having a grandchild on the way. Then again I can’t imagine us talking about something like this and going back and forth for 5 years. If she’d asked back then I can’t guarantee I’d have readily said yes but I didn’t have a married child about to have a kid of his own and I wasn’t yet 40 so she’d have had a much greater chance.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Quality of sperm tends to begin descreasing, higher (yet still overall small risk) for chromosomal or genetic disorders, lower volume, slower motility. Saying all that is enough for me to say “oh yeah? I’ll prove you wrong!” Maybe my wife has taken the wrong approach this whole time and if she would have come at it from that angle she’d already have a due date circled on the calendar. Yes, I’m probably really that easy some days.


That’s all she needed, sperm trash talk.

_W: I want a baby.
OP: No.
W: What are your sperm too old?
OP: What?
W: It’s ok… I get it, it’s like you used to have a Ferrari and now you have a 1976 Ford Pinto that took a shotgun blast to the gas tank. Maybe they can’t get over the finish line.
OP: Now wait a second they’re not a Pinto.
W: You’re right, maybe more like one of those Yugos with a missing wheel.
OP: What?
W: They used to be like Michael Phelps but now they’re like the fat guy who tries the diving board and splashes all the water out of the pool.
OP: Ok I’ll show you they still work!_

That?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Let's stop here for a sec... let's talk about the baby. How do you feel about bringing an unwanted baby (by you, obviously) into the world? How do you think the child will feel if he/she finds out? Every time you have a problem with the child, you will curse your choice and wish you never agreed to it. You will resent the child for ruining your life. And the child will blame his/her parents for doing this. Also, your wife: how can she go ahead with a pregnancy when she knows that the father of the child DOES NOT want the baby? What kind on warped mentality is this? Is this a good idea? To be honest, I'm a bit baffled by all of this...


I feel terrible thinking about having a child I don’t really want, but I don’t doubt I’d love them once they were born. Unless they ended up being one of those demented children who wants to kill his whole family, I don’t think I’d regret them being born. I’d just accept it. I can’t anticipate what sort of resentment I’d have. I don’t really think I’m somebody who holds resentment easily, I generally just focus on the now and moving forward.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> That’s all she needed, sperm trash talk.
> 
> _W: I want a baby.
> OP: No.
> ...


Yep, exactly like that. If she’d have come out of the gate with that I might have been too distracted trying to prove her wrong to think straight (at least for a few days).


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

She keeps saying more and more bizarre things.

Late last night in bed I asked her if we could maybe just spend this weekend NOT talking about babies. Can we please just try to go about normal things and not have everything revolve around this? Maybe we need a break on this topic for a few days. She said ok.

Great. I started thinking about what we could do together that would not involve any of this baby crap. Then she told me her breasts want to be filled with milk, she can’t stop imagining carrying a baby, despite withholding sex she’s horny 24/7 just thinking about me impregnating her, she even thinks about it all day at work to the point she can’t focus. I was an idiot and without thinking told her she sounded like one of those women in a lifetime movie who kidnaps and kills a pregnant women to steal the baby. I told her if she brings it up at all this weekend I will take away my offer to even discuss it. I just decided I can’t this weekend, I just cannot hear anything more about it.

Then we ran to Home Depot first things this morning and the lady behind the paint counter mixing up a can for us was so pregnant she was about to burst. I just gave my wife a look letting her know she better not say one word to me or I’ll leave her there at the store and in that moment I probably would have.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Then she told me her breasts want to be filled with milk, she can’t stop imagining carrying a baby, despite withholding sex she’s horny 24/7 just thinking about me impregnating her, she even thinks about it all day at work to the point she can’t focus.


There’s a good chance I’m really stupid but if my wife said those exact words it’s go time.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> There’s a good chance I’m really stupid but if my wife said those exact words it’s go time.


Did I feel an initial bit of a twitch? Yep I sure did. Did I act on it? No! I wouldn’t give her the satisfaction.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I feel terrible thinking about having a child I don’t really want, but I don’t doubt I’d love them once they were born. Unless they ended up being one of those demented children who wants to kill his whole family, I don’t think I’d regret them being born. I’d just accept it. I can’t anticipate what sort of resentment I’d have. I don’t really think I’m somebody who holds resentment easily, I generally just focus on the now and moving forward.


Of course you will love the child, but you will resent it at times. Do you want that? I never really wanted any children, but I love every single one of them and I wouldn't change anything. That said, I am a person who always did what others wanted me to do and went along and look where I am now. Sometimes it's wiser to put yourself first, especially if you really don't want something.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

This is a problem though. She’s feeling rejected by me because in her mind saying those things to me should have me ready to go. I should want to impregnate her. By not wanting to immediately inseminate her it means I find her unattractive and old. This is how she thinks now. Nevermind that I tried to explain to her, as Anastasia so kindly suggested, that I love her so much and have been so looking forward to it being just us, and part of that is sleeping naked in bed without a kid bursting in, being able to have sex anywhere we want to in the house, not having to be quiet, picking up going anywhere whenever we please and having FUN. She said “that’s what old retired people say.” Men who see their wives as young hot and fertile beings would want to make them pregnant.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

The Izzy’s on TikTok


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Of course you will love the child, but you will resent it at times. Do you want that? I never really wanted any children, but I love every single one of them and I wouldn't change anything. That said, I am a person who always did what others wanted me to do and went along and look where I am now. Sometimes it's wiser to put yourself first, especially if you really don't want something.


Someone recently said that my desire to remain married to my wife is stronger than my desire not to have a child. Somebody also said sometimes situations like these are about picking the least bad option since there is no perfect option. They’re both right. I’m not excited about the idea of a baby but I really don’t want my marriage to end either. I also don’t want her to live with this resentment and regret over not having another child forever. I think I will get over having a child easier than she’ll get over not having one, if it comes down to it. I’m still hoping that once she has a grandchild in her arms she’ll realize oh this is really nice and I don’t really want or need a baby of my own.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Someone recently said that my desire to remain married to my wife is stronger than my desire not to have a child. Somebody also said sometimes situations like these are about picking the least bad option since there is no perfect option. They’re both right. I’m not excited about the idea of a baby but I really don’t want my marriage to end either. I also don’t want her to live with this resentment and regret over not having another child forever. I think I will get over having a child easier than she’ll get over not having one, if it comes down to it. I’m still hoping that once she has a grandchild in her arms she’ll realize oh this is really nice and I don’t really want or need a baby of my own.


I get it... future father of two...  Jokes apart, you don't have many options.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> This is a problem though. She’s feeling rejected by me because in her mind saying those things to me should have me ready to go. I should want to impregnate her. By not wanting to immediately inseminate her it means I find her unattractive and old. This is how she thinks now. Nevermind that I tried to explain to her, as Anastasia so kindly suggested, that I love her so much and have been so looking forward to it being just us, and part of that is sleeping naked in bed without a kid bursting in, being able to have sex anywhere we want to in the house, not having to be quiet, picking up going anywhere whenever we please and having FUN. She said “that’s what old retired people say.” Men who see their wives as young hot and fertile beings would want to make them pregnant.


She a manipulator. With a hint of narcissism.

No woman with a good head on her shoulders and a _respect_ for her husband and his honest thoughts about another child in his 40s (who already has a child, and a grandchild on the way, with her) would keep saying this things, over and over.

She can't accept your thoughts on the situation, she keeps turning it around on purpose. It's emotional manipulation.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I get it... future father of two...  Jokes apart, you don't have many options.


Too bad his wife had made a child in their 40s her way, or the ruination of the marriage. Talk about the pinnacle of selfishness and narcissism about the issue.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I get it... future father of two...  Jokes apart, you don't have many options.


I’m just hoping I can get myself to a mental place where I am somewhat into having a baby before I actually have to cave in here. I’ve tried to stop thinking in “absolutely not!” terms and am trying to think of any possible positive aspects.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m just hoping I can get myself to a mental place where I am somewhat into having a baby before I actually have to cave in here. I’ve tried to stop thinking in “absolutely not!” terms and am trying to think of any possible positive aspects.


Why would you have to cave?

Aren't you disappointed to have a spouse who is unable to respect your wishes about the matter?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She said “that’s what old retired people say.” Men who see their wives as young hot and fertile beings would want to make them pregnant.


Neither of you can help how you feel. If she analyzed what she said it is obviously not true. Every time I jumped my wife (young hot and fertile ) I did NOT want to make her pregnant. And unless we had made a considered and joint decision to birth another child, neither did she. 

Your wife is operating from her reality. Whether that will change or relent going forward remains to be seen. But all of your words wont deflect her from whatever her path ends up being. And maybe fewer unconsidered and rehearsed are best path for you.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Now that OP has been trained to react positively to the spankings, the belt is gonna get bigger and used more regularly. Guaranteed. 

Him: no honey I don’t want to go on vacation to see your mom for two weeks in downtown Detroit.
Her: Oh? You’re cut off from sex until you’ve reached a different train if thought.

Him: but does little Sally really need 20,000$ equestrian lessons?
Her: have you met my new rabbit toy? It’s really satisfying. It makes me feel like I could go years without sex.

Him: Do you think you’d really be comfortable driving an F350 dually to work in rush hour traffic?

Her: Just hand me your Texaco card and STFU before I cross these legs until The FBI releases what’s in the files on Hunter’s laptop. 

Him: Yes ma’am.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

pastasauce79 said:


> Midlife crisis and hormonal imbalance...
> 
> I went through one at 39. The idea of turning 40 and getting older without a purpose (in my head) gave me depression and anxiety. Holy cow I drove my poor husband crazy.
> 
> ...


Historically he's done everything for her, so I'm sure he would end up carrying the load.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m still hoping that once she has a grandchild in her arms she’ll realize oh this is really nice and I don’t really want or need a baby of my own.


Based on my experience I highly doubt holding a grandchild will do anything but enhance her desire for her very own. If your son bought and let you drive a new vette, wouldn’t that make you want to go buy one (assuming money was no issue)?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> Let's stop here for a sec... let's talk about the baby. How do you feel about bringing an unwanted baby (by you, obviously) into the world? How do you think the child will feel if he/she finds out? Every time you have a problem with the child, you will curse your choice and wish you never agreed to it. You will resent the child for ruining your life. And the child will blame his/her parents for doing this. Also, your wife: how can she go ahead with a pregnancy when she knows that the father of the child DOES NOT want the baby? What kind on warped mentality is this? Is this a good idea? To be honest, I'm a bit baffled by all of this...


I agree with the part about the life being ridiculous trying to force a child on someone. That's because she is not thinking about anyone except herself, certainly not the child.

I do think if he had the child he would treat the child well though. I just think it's going to be one big wedge in the relationship that's never going to go away and always going to cause tension.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She keeps saying more and more bizarre things.
> 
> Late last night in bed I asked her if we could maybe just spend this weekend NOT talking about babies. Can we please just try to go about normal things and not have everything revolve around this? Maybe we need a break on this topic for a few days. She said ok.
> 
> ...


Well I do understand you wanting a break. But you realize you wanted to get her to talk. Now you are telling her to shut up.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> Wait what?


It's true. Motility. It happened to my ex BF that I ended up working with later for over 10 years. He was in his thirties and he was really desperate to have children with both his second and third wives. He had to quit wearing jeans because tight clothes like that will mess up the motility. He and his third wife got pregnant but it was one of those things that cost a lot of money, it's not just having sex.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's true. Motility. It happened to my ex BF that I ended up working with later for over 10 years. He was in his thirties and he was really desperate to have children with both his second and third wives*. He had to quit wearing jeans breed of chest from around because tight clothes like that will mess up the motility. All chewing foods he and his third wife got pregnant but it was one of those things that cost a lot of money, it's not just having sex.*


Dude, I type on my phone and it screws things up, but what the heck are you trying to say here?


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She keeps saying more and more bizarre things.
> 
> Late last night in bed I asked her if we could maybe just spend this weekend NOT talking about babies. Can we please just try to go about normal things and not have everything revolve around this? Maybe we need a break on this topic for a few days. She said ok.
> 
> ...


I think that her hormones have spiked and she cannot help herself.

You are shutting her down again. This is not fair to her and good for your marriage.

You need to take her to a doctor (i.e., a gynecologist) and discuss her situation with her. The two of you need professional input.

Take this matter very seriously or she will start resenting you.

You are deviating from valuable advice now.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She keeps saying more and more bizarre things.
> 
> Late last night in bed I asked her if we could maybe just spend this weekend NOT talking about babies. Can we please just try to go about normal things and not have everything revolve around this? Maybe we need a break on this topic for a few days. She said ok.
> 
> ...


Your wife is in a manic episode. She needs to go to a therapist. I'm telling you this bubble is going to burst. She is not right mentally. There is such a thing as late onset mental disorders. Your first priority needs to be getting her into individual counseling. The last thing you do is get someone who's developing a disorder and acting crazy pregnant.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> This is a problem though. She’s feeling rejected by me because in her mind saying those things to me should have me ready to go. I should want to impregnate her. By not wanting to immediately inseminate her it means I find her unattractive and old. This is how she thinks now. Nevermind that I tried to explain to her, as Anastasia so kindly suggested, that I love her so much and have been so looking forward to it being just us, and part of that is sleeping naked in bed without a kid bursting in, being able to have sex anywhere we want to in the house, not having to be quiet, picking up going anywhere whenever we please and having FUN. She said “that’s what old retired people say.” Men who see their wives as young hot and fertile beings would want to make them pregnant.


She is lying about that. I've said it before and I'll say it again. That's her story and she's sticking to it because she knows that gets to you. But she has absolute proof that that is not true and no reason to think that and all she's doing is yanking your chain saying things like that trying to make you prove by having sex with her and giving her a baby that you are attracted to her. How can you even entertain that what she's saying is true? This is why she needs to be in individual therapy. I don't believe she even believes that but even thinking she can get you to believe that means she's deluded right now.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Someone recently said that my desire to remain married to my wife is stronger than my desire not to have a child. Somebody also said sometimes situations like these are about picking the least bad option since there is no perfect option. They’re both right. I’m not excited about the idea of a baby but I really don’t want my marriage to end either. I also don’t want her to live with this resentment and regret over not having another child forever. I think I will get over having a child easier than she’ll get over not having one, if it comes down to it. I’m still hoping that once she has a grandchild in her arms she’ll realize oh this is really nice and I don’t really want or need a baby of my own.


This manic behavior of hers can't last forever. Can't you see how hysterical she's acting? That is not something that can last forever. She's going to come down from this high that she's on and she's going to come down hard. She likely needs to be on meds to level herself out so she's not manufacturing hysteria.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's true. Motility. It happened to my ex BF that I ended up working with later for over 10 years. He was in his thirties and he was real
> ly desperate to have children with both his second and third wives. He had to quit wearing jeans breed of chest from around because tight clothes like that will mess up the motility. All chewing foods he and his third wife got pregnant but it was one of those things that cost a lot of money, it's not just having sex.





DownByTheRiver said:


> She is lying about that. I've said it before and I'll say it again. That's her story and she's sticking to it because she knows that gets to you. But she has absolute proof that that is not true and no reason to think that and all she's doing is yanking your chain saying things like that trying to make you prove by having sex with her and giving her a baby that you are attracted to her. How can you even entertain that what she's saying is true? This is why she needs to be in individual therapy. I don't believe she even believes that but even thinking she can get you to believe that means she's deluded right now.


She's not deluded, though. 

The manipulation is working.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> Dude, I type on my phone and it screws things up, but what the heck are you trying to say here?


That's what happened when you use Google talk at the same time you're watching TV. He had to stop wearing jeans to try to increase his motility. In the end they had to do everything artificially. He was in his late 30s and she was in her middle twenties.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Livvie said:


> She's not deluded, though.
> 
> The manipulation is working.


Yeah, but she's so obsessed with this and so histrionic and hysterical that I just think it's a mental illness right now. This isn't normal behavior. She's out of control. I believe she's manic. I don't know what's driving it but manic is not normal. Her manipulation is all very deliberate.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

Your wife isn't very stable ATM and it's like she is heading towards a breakdown. She needs to see a Dr because if she has developed a mental illness, getting her pregnant could worsen her mental state and make her psychotic. The hardest part is how to approach the subject about her seeing a Dr with you there also. 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

There is just no doubt she's unstable and histrionic and manic and obsessed and she's manifesting weird things. Just because she wasn't before doesn't mean it can't happen. It's happening and you need to deal with that first.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Manipulation is a part of histrionic personality disorder. And so is the crying On queue and you can Google histrionic and you will see some familiar things.

I can't be an armchair psychiatrist for her but she needs a real one. This is some blatant mental behavior that needs to be assessed. You need to tell her that you can't make any decisions about something that's important as long as she is so unstable and obsessed and that she needs to get in individual therapy.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yeah, but she's so obsessed with this and so histrionic and hysterical that I just think it's a mental illness right now. This isn't normal behavior. She's out of control. I believe she's manic. I don't know what's driving it but manic is not normal. Her manipulation is all very deliberate.


My mil got very manipulative while having a manic episode. She did things which were very out of character for her, she got a lot of energy, she talked 1,000 words per minute, she blamed my FIL for everything bad that has happened to her, at the same time she couldn't be without him. She was suspicious of everyone, she refused seeing a doctor or taking her meds. It lasted about 6 horrible weeks... 

My mil's family has a history of mental health issues, but she never had a manic episode until her late 60's. She doesn't remember what she did during the episode at all!!


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

I’m still struggling to be convinced that she’s heading toward a mental breakdown. I feel stuck as far as getting her to go see anyone. The only professional she might talk to is a gynecologist and if I even mention that at this point she’s only going to hear one thing. So then what? An ultimatum that she better go talk to somebody or else? Am I not thinking of an alternative approach? 

Whatever she’s doing, it’s working. No sex didn’t wear me down fast enough so now it seems like she’s doing the opposite. She hasn’t mention the baby topic at all today yet now it’s all I can think about! She doesn’t even have to mention it now for me to be wondering about it. Then today while I was working on building some faux built-ins for our living room she stops me in the middle of what I’m doing to tell me how hot it is when I do things like that for her and she wants to “worship my ****” and gets down and gives me a blowjob right there in the living room. It was such a good one that I had to lay down on the couch and rest for a while. I found myself wanting to tell her “yes, ok, I’ll do it” right in the middle. Of course then I realized “baby may or may not result in further worshipping of my penis but it definitely will not result in random blow jobs in the middle of the day in the living room.”


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

pastasauce79 said:


> My mil got very manipulative while having a manic episode. She did things which were very out of character for her, she got a lot of energy, she talked 1,000 words per minute, she blamed my FIL for everything bad that has happened to her, at the same time she couldn't be without him. She was suspicious of everyone, she refused seeing a doctor or taking her meds. It lasted about 6 horrible weeks...
> 
> My mil's family has a history of mental health issues, but she never had a manic episode until her late 60's. She doesn't remember what she did during the episode at all!!


I used to live with someone bipolar. I loved her at the time, but man was she sneaky and unethical. But see, she was also later diagnosed narcissistic, so clusterfk. 

Because of this thread I was reading more about mania to see what other causes besides bipolar, which usually onsets at an earlier age, but can get much worse with age, as my friend's did. The fact she's always been a crier is consistent with bipolar as well as histrionic. Doing that is very often manipulative, though. 

Mania can also be brought on by stress. I think that may be what happened here, triggered by DIL's pregnancy and jealousy and not accepting she's a grandma. 

Narcissism doesn't explain the hysteria she's having, but it is possible that someone can be a happy go lucky narcissist as long as they are getting everything their way and then turn into a grinch when they're not, so some of that may be going on here as well since he has said he can't remember the last time she didn't get her way. 

I feel there is more than one thing going on here. Perimenopause could be involved, but this being triggered by the DIL getting pregnant and her becoming a grandma wouldn't just suddenly bring on perimenopause. She could be having that in the background at her age. It doesn't explain the hysteria and lying and acting out and mania, though. 

She needs a professional before she crashes or wakes up and says "What have I done?"


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m still struggling to be convinced that she’s heading toward a mental breakdown. I feel stuck as far as getting her to go see anyone. The only professional she might talk to is a gynecologist and if I even mention that at this point she’s only going to hear one thing. So then what? An ultimatum that she better go talk to somebody or else? Am I not thinking of an alternative approach?
> 
> Whatever she’s doing, it’s working. No sex didn’t wear me down fast enough so now it seems like she’s doing the opposite. She hasn’t mention the baby topic at all today yet now it’s all I can think about! She doesn’t even have to mention it now for me to be wondering about it. Then today while I was working on building some faux built-ins for our living room she stops me in the middle of what I’m doing to tell me how hot it is when I do things like that for her and she wants to “worship my ****” and gets down and gives me a blowjob right there in the living room. It was such a good one that I had to lay down on the couch and rest for a while. I found myself wanting to tell her “yes, ok, I’ll do it” right in the middle. Of course then I realized “baby may or may not result in further worshipping of my penis but it definitely will not result in random blow jobs in the middle of the day in the living room.”


She's already IN a mental breakdown. Surely you don't find her behavior normal. Therapy can be done online by a licensed psychologist. If she won't go for individual counseling, then tell her you must have marriage counseling online. Then you can tell them all the crazy crap she's been doing so she doesn't just fake her way out of getting diagnosed. She can unload. Then maybe the marriage counselor will recommend she have individual counseling or refer her to a psychiatrist for meds.

But make sure it's a licensed psychologist doing the counseling or you're wasting your time. She needs mental health evaluation, not just someone to listen to her. 

If you cared more about her than having sex with her, you would see to her mental health right now!


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m still struggling to be convinced that she’s heading toward a mental breakdown. I feel stuck as far as getting her to go see anyone. The only professional she might talk to is a gynecologist and if I even mention that at this point she’s only going to hear one thing. So then what? An ultimatum that she better go talk to somebody or else? Am I not thinking of an alternative approach?
> 
> Whatever she’s doing, it’s working. No sex didn’t wear me down fast enough so now it seems like she’s doing the opposite. She hasn’t mention the baby topic at all today yet now it’s all I can think about! She doesn’t even have to mention it now for me to be wondering about it. Then today while I was working on building some faux built-ins for our living room she stops me in the middle of what I’m doing to tell me how hot it is when I do things like that for her and she wants to “worship my ****” and gets down and gives me a blowjob right there in the living room. It was such a good one that I had to lay down on the couch and rest for a while. I found myself wanting to tell her “yes, ok, I’ll do it” right in the middle. Of course then I realized “baby may or may not result in further worshipping of my penis but it definitely will not result in random blow jobs in the middle of the day in the living room.”


I’m not convinced she has a mental breakdown either.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> I’m not convinced she has a mental breakdown either.


I was all in on the MLC but the last 5 pages or so have me skeptical. Usually the simplest answer is the correct one, and all signs point to selfish brat. 

HOWEVER, this is not normal behavior for a 40 year old woman and not a healthy way for a mother to act. Ask me about mothers who think like this and how it affects their kids. You could make a mental health check a condition of the pregnancy. It certainly wouldn’t hurt.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Whatever she’s doing, *it’s working*. No sex didn’t wear me down fast enough *so now it seems like she’s doing the opposite.*





CoffeeandTV said:


> I found myself wanting to tell her “yes, ok, I’ll do it” right in the middle.


You and she both know the answer is going to be "yes". It isn't an "if" just a "when". Would seem to me with her in a worshiping mode rather than a refusal or pist off mode, sooner would be better than later. If going to make a baby anyway, might as well begin with her in a good mood.

Given that, how about telling her that you need to hear clearance from her gyno that all systems and bloodwork are clear for launch before the vehicle is cleared for fueling? Ask if you can join her so you can ask questions too, make a list of them ahead of time. 

Do your recall the scene from the "Godfather" when the crime boss says "I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse"? You were made an offer three months ago that you can't refuse. Resistance is futile.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Do your recall the scene from the "Godfather" when the crime boss says "I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse"? You were made an offer three months ago that you *can't* refuse. Resistance is futile.


Can’t or won’t? He thinks with his penis. There’s nothing here more than that. Seems like she rang his bell when he was very young and has figured out that he will do literally anything for sex. She’s using sex to get what she wants. It’s an old profession.


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## SnakePlissken (10 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She's already IN a mental breakdown. Surely you don't find her behavior normal. Therapy can be done online by a licensed psychologist. If she won't go for individual counseling, then tell her you must have marriage counseling online. Then you can tell them all the crazy crap she's been doing so she doesn't just fake her way out of getting diagnosed. She can unload. Then maybe the marriage counselor will recommend she have individual counseling or refer her to a psychiatrist for meds.
> 
> But make sure it's a licensed psychologist doing the counseling or you're wasting your time. She needs mental health evaluation, not just someone to listen to her.
> 
> If you cared more about her than having sex with her, you would see to her mental health right now!


This is some solid advice OP. My sister is bi-polar and I've seen her go from invincible to unable to care for herself in a matter of months a few times. One of the inflection points from mania to depression was when she turned 40. She cheated on her husband, divorced him and abandoned her daughter for 6 months chasing her new beau. She had the logical capacity of a teenager during all of this She had to be institutionalized because she got so bad she was suicidal...probably because she blew up her whole life in less than a year.

The invincible I can control you with sex (sorry I dont buy the tale your wife is telling you about taking her serious as the reason for it) followed by mounds of tissues depressed and then sex bombing you and happy again. Seems like rapid affect cycling to this untrained eye.

Has your wife always cycled through polar opposite emotions that quickly since you've known her?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> I’m not convinced she has a mental breakdown either.


Do you think the BJ and flattery was random?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> He thinks with his penis





TexasMom1216 said:


> Seems like she rang his bell


Apologies, but that is a major flaw with some (maybe a lot) of us men. And she has been ringing his bell for a quarter century. My wife has been ringing mine for twice as long. She can divert me from whatever I am doing anytime she wants to. Happened an hour ago as matter of fact lol.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Apologies, but that is a major flaw with some (maybe a lot) of us men. And she has been ringing his bell for a quarter century. My wife has been ringing mine for twice as long. She can divert me from whatever I am doing anytime she wants to. Happened an hour ago as matter of fact lol.


Glad to give you a chance to brag. 😉 Not to the point of exercising poor judgement though, I would hope. I don’t think highly of women who abuse that kind of power. You can say I’m jealous they have it, because it’s true, but I still don’t think it’s right to take advantage of someone. It makes all women look bad when women act like that. If I had that power I wouldn’t use it to force someone to have a child they don’t want.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

@CoffeeandTV 

Have you watched following movie?









Father of the Bride Part II (1995) - IMDb


Father of the Bride Part II: Directed by Charles Shyer. With Steve Martin, Diane Keaton, Martin Short, Kimberly Williams-Paisley. George Banks must deal not only with his daughter's pregnancy, but also with his wife's.




www.imdb.com





I watched this movie with my wife and WE both had a good laugh.

You can watch it alone though.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Do you think the BJ and flattery was random?


So you think complimenting your husband and giving him a blow job a mental illness? Well can't say I'm surprised.

I think many different things could be happening.

I'd like to think that she isn't as good or mature at communicating as he is and wants to let him know in her own way she's ready to get back to business. He communicated that the no sex hurt him and she's now engaging in sex. Wow what a concept.

Or maybe she thinks the no sex didn't work so let's have sex and see if I can get a baby (and no I"m not implying she's off birth control) more like more flies with honey type thing.

Or maybe she too misses their relationship and didn't know how to really get back on the path of being together without giving up on having a baby. She isn't ready to give up but she didn't really want to stay on that path. Maybe her stubbornness wouldn't let her change course until they actually talked and she felt heard. Maybe part of the no sex was she felt like she wasn't being heard and it was her way of getting his attention. It worked!

There are probably 100 other reasons why she gave him a BJ today. But I don't think a wife loving her husband is a sign of mental illness.

Just like I don't think her getting drunk is mentally ill. Is it a sign of being upset/sad or depressed sure. If she was drinking every night I"d worry. But you know right here on this forum when a guy has a tough day often times he's told to go out and have a drink or get snockered. But if a woman does it ONCE she's mentally ill?

Do I think Coffee should be paying attention to his wife, yes. Do I think that if she actually has a long pattern of drinking or crying or showing signs of depression he should seek help, yes. But wanting a baby doesn't make you mentally ill. Withholding sex because you are mad or as a means of getting your way doesn't make you mentally ill.

Sheesh


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I’ve never thought she’s mentally ill. I think she’s used to getting her way and went off the deep end for a minute and has now rebounded. And, yes, I think she’ll eventually get her way as usual. Hopefully, you’ll both be happy.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> So you think complimenting your husband and giving him a blow job a mental illness? Well can't say I'm surprised.
> 
> I think many different things could be happening.
> 
> ...


I never said her getting drunk was a sign of mental illness. It was just one thing among many things she was acting out doing. He has said himself she has said some strange things.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Apologies, but that is a major flaw with some (maybe a lot) of us men. And she has been ringing his bell for a quarter century. My wife has been ringing mine for twice as long. She can divert me from whatever I am doing anytime she wants to. Happened an hour ago as matter of fact lol.


Furthermore, the women who DO use that power are the worst of us. The oldest profession. Women who degrade, demean, dehumanize and humiliate themselves by trading sex for anything are nothing more than prostitutes. Now certainly in marriage we make playful comments, silly jokes about it and that is fine, healthy and normal. But I would never have sex to get something from a man. Because I am not a *****. This woman is embarrassing herself and all of us IF that is what she is doing. Could also be that she regrets hurting her husband and using sex as a weapon and is trying to go back to normal. But if she’s using sex to get him to break, she deserves zero respect.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> So you think complimenting your husband and giving him a blow job a mental illness? Well can't say I'm surprised.


What do you mean by this...??
I'm not sure I understand it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Yeah, I also never said the bj was a sign of mental illness. But he wants to believe it was random and had nothing to do with what's been going on and that it wasn't manipulative. Of course it was. But that's okay with him, and that's his business.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I feel terrible thinking about having a child I don’t really want, but I don’t doubt I’d love them once they were born. Unless they ended up being one of those demented children who wants to kill his whole family, I don’t think I’d regret them being born. I’d just accept it. I can’t anticipate what sort of resentment I’d have. I don’t really think I’m somebody who holds resentment easily, I generally just focus on the now and moving forward.


My wife’s father was 47 when my wife was born and her mother was 39

Now her mother was fine as such, yet her father seemed to resent having a child so late and he showed it in a parade of different ways with lots of anger. While her older brother misses their father because he had a vastly different experience.

Yet my wife who was close to 26 at the time of her father’s death. Felt nothing but a great sense of relief and looking back is still glad he died back then.

So please be mindful of yourself and how you will act, when faced with having a child you really don’t want. Since your inability to stand your ground, makes it likely you are going to get your wife pregnant or have already done so.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> I’m not convinced she has a mental breakdown either.


Nor me. The idea seems crazy. Wanting a second child doesn't mean you are bipolar, having a breakdown or any other mental condition. 
I was reading today about a couple who have just had quads. She is 39 and he is 5O. All healthy.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Can’t or won’t? He thinks with his penis. There’s nothing here more than that. Seems like she rang his bell when he was very young and has figured out that he will do literally anything for sex. She’s using sex to get what she wants. It’s an old profession.


It’s old and it’s effective.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m still struggling to be convinced that she’s heading toward a mental breakdown. I feel stuck as far as getting her to go see anyone. The only professional she might talk to is a gynecologist and if I even mention that at this point she’s only going to hear one thing. So then what? An ultimatum that she better go talk to somebody or else? Am I not thinking of an alternative approach?
> 
> Whatever she’s doing, it’s working. No sex didn’t wear me down fast enough so now it seems like she’s doing the opposite. She hasn’t mention the baby topic at all today yet now it’s all I can think about! She doesn’t even have to mention it now for me to be wondering about it. Then today while I was working on building some faux built-ins for our living room she stops me in the middle of what I’m doing to tell me how hot it is when I do things like that for her and she wants to “worship my ****” and gets down and gives me a blowjob right there in the living room. It was such a good one that I had to lay down on the couch and rest for a while. I found myself wanting to tell her “yes, ok, I’ll do it” right in the middle. Of course then I realized “baby may or may not result in further worshipping of my penis but it definitely will not result in random blow jobs in the middle of the day in the living room.”


I am not sure about the 'mental breakdown' theory either.

Do you think that strangers on the internet are in the position to diagnose physical and mental health of your wife? You should take your wife to a doctor for her physical and mental evaluation. This is important consideration for her before she should be trying for a baby at 40. Even a gynecologist can answer [your] questions in this regard.

For how long you can string her along? What if she has a breaking point? Would you like to find out?

Over 3 months have passed in your case. Time is of the essence, bro.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She keeps saying more and more bizarre things.
> 
> Late last night in bed I asked her if we could maybe just spend this weekend NOT talking about babies. Can we please just try to go about normal things and not have everything revolve around this? Maybe we need a break on this topic for a few days. She said ok.
> 
> Great. I started thinking about what we could do together that would not involve any of this baby crap. Then she told me her breasts want to be filled with milk, she can’t stop imagining carrying a baby, despite withholding sex she’s horny 24/7 just thinking about me impregnating her, she even thinks about it all day at work to the point she can’t focus.


This is what I meant when I mentioned "obsessive thoughts" yesterday.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> It’s old and it’s effective.


And belittles and dehumanizes all women.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> I am not sure about the 'mental breakdown' theory either.
> 
> Do you think that strangers on the internet are in the position to diagnose physical and mental health of your wife? You should take your wife to a doctor for her physical and mental evaluation. This is important consideration for her before she should be trying for a baby at 40. Even a gynecologist can answer [your] questions in this regard.
> 
> ...


Strangers on the internet are NOT qualified to diagnose her physical or mental health. 

So they are not qualified to say that there is not a mental or physical health issue taking place or that she is fine either. 

So yes, she should see a doctor who can properly assess and evaluate her. 

Even if you decided to cave in today, you should still see a gynecologist to determine her gynecological and fertility status and to have you beat off in a cup to determine YOUR fertility status as well. 

Here's the thing though,,,, if she refuses to see a gynecologist because she things he/she will try to talk her out of it and will tell her she's crazy -- then she is in fact not playing with a full deck. 

Seeing a gynecologist is the right and responsible thing to do for anyone wanting to conceive. If she refuses that, then you know she's not right in the head.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> And belittles and dehumanizes all women.


It’s true. What is the old saying, Helen of Troy is the face that launched a thousand ships?

It’s part of nature overall. Males compete in a hierarchy to have sex. It’s part of the system.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> I am not sure about the 'mental breakdown' theory either.
> 
> Do you think that strangers on the internet are in the position to diagnose physical and mental health of your wife? You should take your wife to a doctor for her physical and mental evaluation. This is important consideration for her before she should be trying for a baby at 40. Even a gynecologist can answer [your] questions in this regard.
> 
> ...


Take her is all we were trying to get him to do.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> She's not deluded, though.
> 
> The manipulation is working.


The fact that she is manipulative and that it is working is not evidence that she does not have something going mentally. Mentally ill people are often very manipulative. 

And assuming she is not mentally ill in any way, she at the very least is experiencing some very troubling and problematic emotional upheavals. 

Noone is saying those young men in their clean white coats should come and take her away ha ha (that's from an old 1960s song) Some of us are saying that she needs to see a professional to see if there is something more going on here than someone who wants to have another child and is being bratty about it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Anastasia6 said:


> . Do I think that if she actually has a long pattern of drinking or crying or showing signs of depression he should seek help, yes. But wanting a baby doesn't make you mentally ill. Withholding sex because you are mad or as a means of getting your way doesn't make you mentally ill.


Actually you have this backwards. It's sudden and dramatic *changes *in behavior and emotional state that need to be looked into. 

If she was always a drinker and always a cryer any time things don't go the way she wants, then that would be her baseline state. 

It's the fact that she is acting way out of character for her that in everything from having periods of crying, drinking alone in the house to drunkeness, to obsessive thought patterns of being obsessed about wanting a baby when for the past decades she clearly did NOT want them, to going from sexually adventurous and responsive lover and active and consistent sex love to punitively and manipulatively rejecting him sexually to get him to give in to having a baby. 

It's those CHANGES in her behavior and emotional state that are concerning and need to be looked into by a professional.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Let's clarify something here. No one is saying she is mentally ill. None of us are qualified to make that determination. 

However a person does not have to be sitting naked in a corner writing on the wall with poop to have some kind of emotional or physiological thing taking place that is disrupting their lives to the point of being problematic for them. 

Let's assume she is NOT having some kind of mental breakdown or psychotic episode. 

But she is clearly in distress and it is not only disrupting her life and making her miserable and distressed, it is also having a serious negative impact on their daily life and marriage and is also placing him in distress. 

This is a problem. And while we as internet strangers are not qualified to say that she has a physiological, psychological or emotional issue going on - Neither are we qualified to say that she is fine and that there is no physiological, psychological or emotional issue going on. 

What we are qualified to do is to see that there is a problem that is disrupting their live and placing both of them in distress and threatening the sanctity of their marriage and we are qualified to urge them to seek professional assistance that CAN properly assess their situation and determine if there is an issue that requires deeper treatment or therapy or not.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> It’s true. What is the old saying, Helen of Troy is the face that launched a thousand ships?
> 
> *It’s part of nature overall. Males compete in a hierarchy to have sex*. It’s part of the system.


That sounds like a cop out. Not for men, but for women. It’s plainly insulting to men, implying they’re little more than animals. Kind of blows a hole in the whole idea that they should be “in charge.” Of anything, if they have no better judgement than that. I believe it’s a matter of discipline and respect for women. 

There is zero excuse for the Op’s wife using sex to manipulate her husband.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That sounds like a cop out. Not for men, but for women. It’s plainly insulting to men, implying they’re little more than animals. Kind of blows a hole in the whole idea that they should be “in charge.” Of anything, if they have no better judgement than that. I believe it’s a matter of discipline and respect for women.
> 
> There is zero excuse for the Op’s wife using sex to manipulate her husband.


True I’m just saying it’s a powerful motivating force.

Like today I am watching awesome concerts and chilling and I could easily drink too many White Claws but I know if I do that my wife will be like um I will pass.

So even though these watermelon white claws are tasty they need to stay in the fridge.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That sounds like a cop out. Not for men, but for women. It’s plainly insulting to men, implying they’re little more than animals. Kind of blows a hole in the whole idea that they should be “in charge.” Of anything, if they have no better judgement than that. I believe it’s a matter of discipline and respect for women.
> 
> There is zero excuse for the Op’s wife using sex to manipulate her husband.


I can't say that I disagree with you. 

But manipulators are going to use whatever weak underbelly that they can and the manipulatable will be most apt to cave in when their weak spot is exploited.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> You’re not being rude. This isn’t like her. Yes, she is definitely skilled at being stubborn but she normally doesn’t act like a juvenile over it. This is not typical behavior for her at all.
> 
> I’ve thought it was a bit mid-life crisis esq myself. I know that we have both talked about how we are happy for our son and his wife but that it feels very weird to think about being grandparents at our age. We laugh at it but perhaps it’s bothering her on a deeper level than she lets on. She says suddenly she just realized that she regrets not having anymore children and she blinked and suddenly she’s 40 and it’s “now or never” in her mind. She gets mad that I won’t consider it, that I don’t even want to discuss it. Look, I love our son more than anything in the world. I also love that he’s 24 and we successfully got him through life this far, though school, out in his own, and now we’re free! I have zero desire to have another child so why waste time discussing it or “considering” it. She says I’m the stubborn one since I don’t want to talk about it. I have told her my reasons, so I did talk about it. I won’t pretend to feel differently. What good will that do but get her hopes up?


If she wanted another child, she should have brought up the issue 15-20 yrs ago. By her actions she is a vindictive woman and is the type that will probably cut you off once she gets what she wants. 

Also remember, if you decide to give in, heat is sperms enemy. Tight underpants keep the scrotum close to the body where it is hot, heat kills sperm cells. Empty those boys and soak in hot baths regularly. Hell sit on a heating pad! Hand warmer bouch in the drawers may cripple the little swimmers. 

If she comes up pregnant I would be interested to know DNA. I know one woman that wanted another child, she got sperm donor and turkey baster and impregnated herself, hubby divorced her. Now she has 2 little girls look nothing alike.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That sounds like a cop out. Not for men, but for women. It’s plainly insulting to men, implying they’re little more than animals. Kind of blows a hole in the whole idea that they should be “in charge.” Of anything, if they have no better judgement than that. I believe it’s a matter of discipline and respect for women.
> 
> There is zero excuse for the Op’s wife using sex to manipulate her husband.


But OP is into it. 

He's fine being manipulated like that and almost reads in his posts as if he is proud of it. 

I think it's gross she's doing it but I have come to understand many men are led around by sex. Think of how many men are with crazy mean *****es, for example, who totally ruin their lives, and the men stayed with them for years and years and worshipped these *****es and gave them luxurious, leisurely lifestyles, solely because they were hot. In my opinion those men get what they deserve. 

It certainly does blow a hole in the idea that they/men should be in charge of anything, so many of them are so easily manipulated by sex, to the exclusion of any good and real judgment. Major yuck and very disappointing.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Livvie said:


> But OP is into it.
> 
> He's fine being manipulated like that and almost reads in his posts as if he is proud of it.
> 
> ...


There seems to be a disappointingly large percentage of men who expect women to behave that way and are happy to be “victimized” by it, they even brag about it. Sometimes humanity as a whole is disappointing. 😔


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

My wife and I love each other very much. I count myself lucky to be in a relationship with the same woman for 25 years and to still be instantly turned on by the thought of her. I think it’s safe to say she’s still very attracted to me too and genuinely enjoys having sex with me. One of the main ways she shows love and appreciation for me is through enthusiastic, mutually satisfying sex because that’s something that’s very important to me and makes me feel loved and appreciated. She also shows her love through many other non-sexual means. I like to pleasure her too as well as show my love for her through acts of service because I know that’s what really makes her feel loved and appreciated by me.

I’m not going to make a decision about a baby based on a great blowjob. I just said she almost had me wanting to say “yes!” She’s very skilled in the art of the blowjob and tells me that it’s one of her favorite things to do. If it had been 20 years since she last gave me one then I’d be more suspicious. Although they weren’t happening for the last 3 months, blowjobs aren’t out of the ordinary and no she doesn’t just do it when she wants something from me in return.

Does she know that if I’m in a bad mood or if we’ve had a disagreement that sex will make me feel better? She does. Was she possibly doing it today to butter me up and to make me less ticked off at her behavior recently? I wouldn’t doubt it. Do I think it was all about manipulation and that she didn’t mean a word she said? Not at all.

Isn’t marriage about doing things for the other person that you know make them happy and feel loved and appreciated? I think if you disregard the last few months my wife and I have a pretty good track record of that. Yes, I want to ensure that I can keep having sex with her for as long as I possibly can. No, I’m rarely if ever going to turn down a blowjob or any sort of sex when she initiates. I’m always ready to go for her. Always. I know that in turn makes her feel good too. She enjoys being able to turn me on so easily. I’ll happily be her victim in that regard.

I’d rather be in my situation and have a wife who loves having sex with me and knows that it’s a weakness of mine than to be in a marriage where I’m regularly begging for crumbs for years or with a wife who gave me half-assed blowjobs up until marriage and hasn’t put her mouth on it since.

Yes I may bend to the whims of my wife on the baby issue eventually but it won’t be because of a mind blowing orgasm, although she knows how to give me those and I wish every man was as lucky as me. If I agree to her wishes it’ll be because I love her and after having some actual serious discussions about it I decide it’s something that I am ok to both give to her and to dedicate myself to for the rest of my life. I will definitely have her see a gynecologist before doing anything else, at the bare minimum. I do care about her very much, more than having sex with her. I want to have sex with her because I love her. Sure she is beautiful and her body is what I go to bed dreaming about most nights, but I could go out and find other attractive women who are probably great at sex. If I was so controlled by sex I wouldn’t have stayed faithful to the same woman for 25 years. I’ve had many many opportunities to drop my pants for other women (you know how hot some women find young even semi-attractive dads with a cute kid?) and I’ve never even considered it once.

My wife has not behaved well the past few months. I’m concerned about her mental state, but I don’t think she’s crazy. Maybe depressed. I’m also just annoyed by the childishness. But she’s not dehumanizing and prostituting herself by having sex with me, her husband who does a lot for her and loves and protect and provides for her every day. Frequent sex is something we have always shared with each other and has always been an important part of our relationship. If she had a medical issue happen today and could never have sex again I’d live with that and I’d spend the rest of my life taking care of her even if she was just a vegetable in a hospital bed.

She’s done much more for me than just get me off and while she has a pretty face and a hot body she is so much more than that to me. She’s been my partner and my supporter through thick and thin and she’s sacrificed and worked her ass off for our family. I never wanted her to have to sacrifice but sometimes we both had to and she didn’t complain. Maybe that makes it easier for me to overlook the past 3 months, as long as things improve from her on out. 3 months compared to our entire relationship is nothing.

I do usually give her what she wants but she’s not a demanding *****. She says “hey can you build some shelves for me?” Sure I can. She and I both know she could figure out how to do it herself. Shes very capable. But I like doing that sort of thing and she seems to like watching me do that sort of thing and then she goes behind me and paints the shelves and puts all of her little doodads on them we’re both happy in the end and what’s so wrong about that?

This isn’t Anna Nicole Smith sucking off a geriatric just to live off his money here.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Divinely Favored said:


> If she wanted another child, she should have brought up the issue 15-20 yrs ago. By her actions she is a vindictive woman and is the type that will probably cut you off once she gets what she wants.
> 
> Also remember, if you decide to give in, heat is sperms enemy. Tight underpants keep the scrotum close to the body where it is hot, heat kills sperm cells. Empty those boys and soak in hot baths regularly. Hell sit on a heating pad! Hand warmer bouch in the drawers may cripple the little swimmers.
> 
> If she comes up pregnant I would be interested to know DNA. I know one woman that wanted another child, she got sperm donor and turkey baster and impregnated herself, hubby divorced her. Now she has 2 little girls look nothing alike.


To be fair to her, she was only 20 years old 20 years ago. It was best that we didn’t have another child within the first 10 years of our son’s life because not doing so allowed us to somehow scrimp and save and complete college and create a stable foundation for our family. One kid was all we could manage at the time and we were responsible in that regard. Unfortunately when we then talked about another baby when our son was between 10-12 years old we felt like it would be a really big age gap and we were really busy with all of his activities, his school, still trying to get a foothold in our actual adult careers. Now a 10 year age gap sounds tiny compared to what we’re looking at now. Hindsight is 20/20 isn’t it?

The heat tip is great though. Hey maybe I’ll decide that my new everyday look will involve tight spandex bike shorts to go along with it. I knew a guy who used to wear really tight bike shorts and his doctor told him he needed to stop wearing them or he’d never conceive. It’d probably only eventually result in having to liquidate my savings to go to doctors for rounds of tests to find out what as “wrong” and then pray that artificial insemination ultimately worked. No thanks!


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Whatever gets you through the night, dude. Have a nice life, best of luck.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Let's clarify something here. No one is saying she is mentally ill. None of us are qualified to make that determination.
> 
> However a person does not have to be sitting naked in a corner writing on the wall with poop to have some kind of emotional or physiological thing taking place that is disrupting their lives to the point of being problematic for them.
> 
> ...


I do see and understand your point.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> My wife and I love each other very much. I count myself lucky to be in a relationship with the same woman for 25 years and to still be instantly turned on by the thought of her. I think it’s safe to say she’s still very attracted to me too and genuinely enjoys having sex with me. One of the main ways she shows love and appreciation for me is through enthusiastic, mutually satisfying sex because that’s something that’s very important to me and makes me feel loved and appreciated. She also shows her love through many other non-sexual means. I like to pleasure her too as well as show my love for her through acts of service because I know that’s what really makes her feel loved and appreciated by me.
> 
> I’m not going to make a decision about a baby based on a great blowjob. I just said she almost had me wanting to say “yes!” She’s very skilled in the art of the blowjob and tells me that it’s one of her favorite things to do. If it had been 20 years since she last gave me one then I’d be more suspicious. Although they weren’t happening for the last 3 months, blowjobs aren’t out of the ordinary and no she doesn’t just do it when she wants something from me in return.
> 
> ...


OK your love and devotion is notable. 

But it's the bolded part above that is concerning. 

On one hand you are saying that you are concerned about her mental and emotional well being. 

But on the other hand you are saying that you will father a child you don't want and live a lifestyle you don't want and undertake that work and expense and life changes - for someone who's mental and emotional stability that you have very valid reasons for questioning. 

Do you see the problem there???? 

Pregnancy and child rearing DO NOT cure emotional problems or mental instability!!! 

But they can sure make a normal, stable person go off the rails! 

Your love and devotion to her are commendable. But caving in to the wacky whims of an emotionally/mentally unstable person is not right. 

Show your love and devotion by getting her to see a professional that can thoroughly evaluate her and help her if needed.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

This is seeming off kilter.

My barbarian intuition is firing.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> This is seeming off kilter.
> 
> My barbarian intuition is firing.


You mean....


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> This is seeming off kilter.
> 
> My barbarian intuition is firing.


What is? My wife’s mental state? Or are you saying I’m making it all up for ****s and giggles?

What’s so off kilter here? A woman who actually enjoys having sex with her husband? The fact that I felt the need to defend her after people compared her giving me compliments and a blowjob to prostituting herself?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Well she’s been really cruel these last few months after springing this on you out of the blue just because she found out about another person having a baby. You are far too dismissive of her bad behavior, regardless of the cause. I’d think she’d be wanting to enjoy you and travel with you. I’m 5 years from retiring and hope to

you should feel manipulated. You have been. And I rarely use that word. It sounds like controlling…. Usually bs.
Not in this case.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Coffeea
[QUOTE="Livvie said:


> You mean....


There are patterns to everything and this situation is falling outside the pattern in places.

Don't have it nailed down yet.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> There are patterns to everything and this situation is falling outside the pattern in places.
> 
> Don't have it nailed down yet.


Let me know when you figure it out.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You’ve now entered the deep end. Sink or swim. 
She is still manipulating you….


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Let me know when you figure it out.


I'm not stingy with information. Of course.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> . But she’s just pretending in an effort to tease me and to try to get back at me for the comment I made.


That's not teasing -- that is vindictiveness......


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

@CoffeeandTV - You may need to look at this a bit differently. Your wife is not acting normally; that's the one thing you and everyone else here seems to agree upon. It really doesn't matter whether she's got a significant mental disorder in the making or just a mild case of pre-menopausal fear (the loss of fertility looming large). You would not trust someone to make a major decision regarding someone else's life when inebriated, right? And yet we're talking about exactly that- a major decision regarding a potential life-to-be that is going to be dependent upon the two of you for the next umpteen years. This does not seem the right time to make a decision like that. You keep thinking about how it will affect YOUR lives, but little regard for the new kid on the block. Not saying the two of you won't make great parents... again. Just pointing out that decisions of this magnitude shouldn't be made without the benefit of sound mind and body.

The first pregnancy, was there drinking involved? Did the two of you fully understand the possibilities or were the sense dulled? Did one of you take a leadership role in the decision to raise the kid and get married? Just wondering if some of this is her wanting it to be her choice, her decision this time.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Casual Observer said:


> @CoffeeandTV - You may need to look at this a bit differently. Your wife is not acting normally; that's the one thing you and everyone else here seems to agree upon. It really doesn't matter whether she's got a significant mental disorder in the making or just a mild case of pre-menopausal fear (the loss of fertility looming large). You would not trust someone to make a major decision regarding someone else's life when inebriated, right? And yet we're talking about exactly that- a major decision regarding a potential life-to-be that is going to be dependent upon the two of you for the next umpteen years. This does not seem the right time to make a decision like that. You keep thinking about how it will affect YOUR lives, but little regard for the new kid on the block. Not saying the two of you won't make great parents... again. Just pointing out that decisions of this magnitude shouldn't be made without the benefit of sound mind and body.


@CoffeeandTV this is what I was getting at earlier. But let me condense this down into more of a bite-sized message - Your wife is not acting right and not thinking straight for whatever reason. There for you should not be bringing another child into this world while she is being nutty and acting badly. She's not firing on all cylinders so there for she is not in a position to making these major life-choices. 

And more importantly, you should not be enabling her while she is in the compromised condition and doing what you know is wrong so that you do not upset her during this period irrationality. 

There's even a chance that you knock her up to appease her now while she is having this event, and once baby comes along then she could really go off the rails and truly is sitting in the corner rubbing poop in her hair,, or she get's her hormones or her head or whatever straightened out and now she feels resentment towards you for going along with her while she was out of control and feels that you took advantage of her compromised state and didn't stand up for what was right while she was in a compromised condition.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> @CoffeeandTV this is what I was getting at earlier. But let me condense this down into more of a bite-sized message - Your wife is not acting right and not thinking straight for whatever reason. There for you should not be bringing another child into this world while she is being nutty and acting badly. She's not firing on all cylinders so there for she is not in a position to making these major life-choices.
> 
> And more importantly, you should not be enabling her while she is in the compromised condition and doing what you know is wrong so that you do not upset her during this period irrationality.
> 
> There's even a chance that you knock her up to appease her now while she is having this event, and once baby comes along then she could really go off the rails and truly is sitting in the corner rubbing poop in her hair,, or she get's her hormones or her head or whatever straightened out and now she feels resentment towards you for going along with her while she was out of control and feels that you took advantage of her compromised state and didn't stand up for what was right while she was in a compromised condition.


One other consideration- everything might actually go well. Better than well, even. But when the inevitable challenges DO come up, and they will, because that's life, there may be a temptation to blame the decision to have a kid for those issues. And in fact that might not have anything to do with the challenges being faced, but it becomes a deflection from other issues in the marriage.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> @CoffeeandTV this is what I was getting at earlier. But let me condense this down into more of a bite-sized message - Your wife is not acting right and not thinking straight for whatever reason. There for you should not be bringing another child into this world while she is being nutty and acting badly. She's not firing on all cylinders so there for she is not in a position to making these major life-choices.
> 
> And more importantly, you should not be enabling her while she is in the compromised condition and doing what you know is wrong so that you do not upset her during this period irrationality.
> 
> There's even a chance that you knock her up to appease her now while she is having this event, and once baby comes along then she could really go off the rails and truly is sitting in the corner rubbing poop in her hair,, or she get's her hormones or her head or whatever straightened out and now she feels resentment towards you for going along with her while she was out of control and feels that you took advantage of her compromised state and didn't stand up for what was right while she was in a compromised condition.


I do not think any member here can speak on behalf of OP's wife about what she wants.

She has clearly told him that she wants to have a baby. This argument between OP and her is month(s) OLD and it brought intimacy between the two to an all-time low because he was dismissive of her feelings and issued hurtful statements. Me and a few other members advised OP to take his wife seriously at this stage: do not dismiss her feelings; do not shut her down; do not issue hurtful statements; talk to her and discuss all possibilities with her. He listened, and now both are back on talking terms. But OP decided to shut her down again. Not good.

If this is a good marriage then it is worth saving. Another baby will not ruin it because OP have stated that he will be a good father to his child no matter what. This is how it should be.

Physical and mental evaluation of OP's wife is important nevertheless. This is to understand if her biology is acting up in some way or form (or not). This is also to make sure that she can have a "low-risk pregnancy" (or not). The doctor can help OP and his wife reach an *informed decision* in this regard. Professional input have no equal.

It makes sense to avoid a "high-risk pregnancy." This is valid argument and contention. But a doctor is qualified to determine this for OP's wife. OP cannot (and should not) on his own.

OP might be in a 'no-win' situation with his wife in this matter but he can turn this into a 'win-win' situation for both [couple context]. Both can discuss and figure out how to live their lives with a baby in the mix. Both are well-settled by now. Things will be different at this stage.

Couples have conceived in their 40s and turned out fine. This isn't the end of the world for OP either. 

Why turn this into a war and worse? Do what can be best for your marriage if it is worth keeping.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

OP, remember, your situation is unique to you. Bear in mind, it may help you....remember these circumstances aren't unique, a bazillion guys/couples have gone through the same thing. So however it goes you'll be fine.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Men are lead by their ****s and women by their hormones... hence this situation. Am I way off?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Having a wife that punishes you by withholding sex and actually telling you so when you disagree to her demands on something life altering like this…… not healthy.

if this story is true, it’s headed downhill I’d say.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> Having a wife that punishes you by withholding sex and actually telling you so when you disagree to her demands on something life altering like this…… not healthy.
> 
> if this story is true, it’s headed downhill I’d say.


He doesn't care though, because he is led by sex and she is giving that again now. So he'll do what she wants just because she wants it.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Lotsofheart73 said:


> A lot of guys don’t follow the post op instructions to take it easy and use an ice pack or frozen peas and then they end up in more pain than should be. My brother in law did this. Instead of resting, went and walked around at a gun show. Next day… big time pain.


Family friend was feeling good, went back to work couple days later. He was on his D7 Cat dozer for 8-10 hrs. Sack swelled up like a dang grapefruit. Put him on his back for 2 weeks.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> He doesn't care though, because he is led by sex and she is giving that again now. So he'll do what she wants just because she wants it.


And he has acknowledged numerous times that he wants to remain married to her and having another child is the least bad option in his mind. I happen to agree with him and would do the same in his shoes. 

The three month dry spell was what prompted the thread, and if she had used love bombing in the first place, he wouldn't even be here. She would already be pregnant because he would have already “caved.” She just chose the wrong opening strategy. Little surprising because after 25 years she surely knows what works and what won’t.

If his overriding goal is to remain with his wife, then he might as well fold up his objections and get with the program sooner rather than later. Yes it might end up a disaster down the road. But it could be a disaster too if he continues to resist.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Honestly, medically, odds are she's not going to get pregnant anyway. And then there's a 40% to 50% miscarriage rate at her age, again medically (anyone can go look it up). 

I think its sad for the existing adult child expecting the first grandchild. Instead of his parents, the grandparents, being excited about their first grandchild and focusing on that, his parents' focus might be on conceiving at advanced maternal age and then on his mother's high risk pregnancy. I look back upon how excited my parents were when I was expecting and how much they loved and doted on my bab(ies). It was a special time and the natural progression of life and family.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Honestly, medically, odds are she's not going to get pregnant anyway. And then there's a 40% to 50% miscarriage rate at her age, again medically (anyone can go look it up).
> 
> I think its sad for the existing adult child expecting the first grandchild. Instead of his parents, the grandparents, being excited about their first grandchild and focusing on that, his parents' focus might be on conceiving at advanced maternal age and then on his mother's high risk pregnancy. I look back upon how excited my parents were when I was expecting and how much they loved and doted on my bab(ies). It was a special time and the natural progression of life and family.


Yes it is a shame she cant focus on being a grandma. But some people cant handle arriving at that place in life. For us it was a joyous time. Spoil them and hand them back to mom n dad.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Wondering if anyone here knows what side effects can occur when stopping bc. Emotional ones, especially.

OP, if you drag your feet and she eventually has trouble conceiving, that will always be your fault in her mind.

These unprecedented behaviors are enough to want her to get checked out medically, and it’s more than fair to tell her you want her to and expect her to. It’s at most a few hours of inconvenience. You either have a vested interest in each other’s health, or you do not.

Bad idea to let someone mistreat you and give them exactly what you dont want but they have demanded.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

PieceOfSky said:


> Bad idea to let someone mistreat you and give them exactly what you dont want but they have demanded.


Don’t we have to be totally committed to consequences of refusing the demands? If OP said “NO” and willing to accept whatever the consequences that could work. But he isn’t willing to go there. So, might as well say “YES” and accept those consequences.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> He doesn't care though, because he is led by sex and she is giving that again now. So he'll do what she wants just because she wants it.


Have I said that I don’t care about her behavior the past 3 months? All is not magically forgiven or forgotten. We still have a lot to discuss about what happened the past few months. I don’t think refusing sex from her when she wants to give it now is going to help the situation though, so I’ll continue to gladly participate. It’s more than sec to me, it’s how I feel loved by her.

The issue is not resolved, but we’ve had a few discussions and thanks to some things a few people suggested here it seems to have been what she needed to hear to stop withholding sex. Ok, she made a point and I’m listening to what she has to say now. I’m led by sex because I enjoyed having sex with her the last few days? Because I joked about it being so good that I was ready to cave in to her demands on the spot? Or the comment that if she’d just approached the issue as my sperm not being strong enough she could have distracted me for a few days and gotten a few attempts out of me? I’m joking around. Men generally don’t want to be told they have weak sperm.

Yes, I really love sex but I’m able to think with my big head most of the time. If sex was all it took I would have already agreed to a baby. If it happens at all it won’t happen for a little while - I don’t plan to reward her recent behavior by getting her pregnant right now. I am willing to try to be open to listening to what she has to say if she can tell it to me like an adult without using childish games. If she can begin acting like her normal self again and it becomes obvious that she’s is in her perfectly rational mind and after a longer period of several serious discussions about the future it seems like she cannot let go of this and she will be unhappy and feel a giant hole for the rest of her life if she doesn’t have a second child then chances are high that I will probably do what I can to make it happen for her. I’ve not resigned myself to it yet. I’m talking about months of discussion, doctors visits, a major change in her behavior, not saying yes to her after a few good orgasms.

I understand that based on what you’ve said you would probably no longer be attracted to her or even want to be in a relationship with her, if you were me, due to the manipulative behavior. Several others would agree with you. I’m not denying that she was being manipulative, but I’m also not just saying ok you blew me so now everything is excused. It seems that you think sex is the only reason I’m putting up with it and my obsession with sex is clouding any and all good judgment. That’s fair that you would absolutely stand your ground about no baby and you’d probably reconsider the entire relationship. Hey, I wouldn’t fault you one bit for that. I feel a bit differently about it when it comes and it’s not because I’m led by sex.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Rus47 said:


> Don’t we have to be totally committed to consequences of refusing the demands? If OP said “NO” and willing to accept whatever the consequences that could work. But he isn’t willing to go there. So, might as well say “YES” and accept those consequences.


If he’s going to say YES, at least make it conditional that first: the bs stops, she sees professionals about her mental health, physical health, and to-be geriatric pregnancy.

Turning a blind eye to her bad, and worrisome, behaviors is willfully being reckless, with his own to-be child’s life, not to mention hers and his.

And yes, if you are going to have a boundary, it only works if people believe you will enforce it. And sometimes that enforcing is what is required. If he’s not willing, then it’s in his interest to figure out what he can do to resolve the contradictory wants he currently holds. Bad idea to fold on one at random.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Honestly, medically, odds are she's not going to get pregnant anyway. And then there's a 40% to 50% miscarriage rate at her age, again medically (anyone can go look it up).
> 
> I think its sad for the existing adult child expecting the first grandchild. Instead of his parents, the grandparents, being excited about their first grandchild and focusing on that, his parents' focus might be on conceiving at advanced maternal age and then on his mother's high risk pregnancy. I look back upon how excited my parents were when I was expecting and how much they loved and doted on my bab(ies). It was a special time and the natural progression of life and family.


Nobody is arguing the facts and the numbers. You’ve been correct with every statistic you’ve posted in this thread. I don’t think she’s unaware either. I showed her an article by a woman who had twins in her early 40s. It was all about why you shouldn’t have kids in your 40s. Bad move on my part. “You think I don’t already know these things?!” And a bunch of tears.

At the very least, no decision will be made on my part until after my son’s baby is here. I’ll not agree to anything before then. My wife is planning to be at the hospital as it’s happening (oh please let that make her remember how much she hated giving birth and all of the things it’ll do to her body that she has obsessively worked out and toned to perfection over the past several years) and I have the ever so esteemed job as the designated babysitter for their crazy Samoyed dog while everyone is at the hospital waiting for the baby to make his/her arrival. I don’t need my own wife laid up in the hospital with pregnancy complications at the same time.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

PieceOfSky said:


> If he’s going to say YES, at least make it conditional that first: the bs stops, she sees professionals about her mental health, physical health, and to-be geriatric pregnancy.


This is exactly how it will be. I’m not impregnating her today (hopefully never). If it happens, it won’t be on a whim after a great blow job! I take it more seriously than that. She’s not going to like everything I’m going to ask her to do and all of the information and plans she’ll have to present to prove to me she’s completely thought it through and is totally prepared. Some people brought up some very good questions about practical things like who will take care of the baby during the day and what will happen if she’s on bed rest for months. So far she’s not touched any of that but then again I wasn’t really willing to get that far into the details before since my automatic answer was no. She will have to give the presentation of her life.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> This is exactly how it will be. I’m not impregnating her today (hopefully never). If it happens, it won’t be on a whim after a great blow job! I take it more seriously than that. She’s not going to like everything I’m going to ask her to do and all of the information and plans she’ll have to present to prove to me she’s completely thought it through and is totally prepared. Some people brought up some very good questions about practical things like who will take care of the baby during the day and what will happen if she’s on bed rest for months. So far she’s not touched any of that but then again I wasn’t really willing to get that far into the details before since my automatic answer was no. She will have to give the presentation of her life.


It sounds like you are thinking clearly about the situation and making sure any decisions will be made with knowledge and planning!


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Until the next great sex episode where he says “the sex was great and if she gets pregnant it will be my own fault”.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Have I said that I don’t care about her behavior the past 3 months? All is not magically forgiven or forgotten. We still have a lot to discuss about what happened the past few months. I don’t think refusing sex from her when she wants to give it now is going to help the situation though, so I’ll continue to gladly participate. It’s more than sec to me, it’s how I feel loved by her.
> 
> The issue is not resolved, but we’ve had a few discussions and thanks to some things a few people suggested here it seems to have been what she needed to hear to stop withholding sex. Ok, she made a point and I’m listening to what she has to say now. I’m led by sex because I enjoyed having sex with her the last few days? Because I joked about it being so good that I was ready to cave in to her demands on the spot? Or the comment that if she’d just approached the issue as my sperm not being strong enough she could have distracted me for a few days and gotten a few attempts out of me? I’m joking around. Men generally don’t want to be told they have weak sperm.
> 
> ...


I don't want to speak for Liv, but what she is saying (myself and others have said this as well), that it's not about you putting up with her shenanigans right now, but that it's VERY clear your M.O. is sex and thus it's VERY apparent that at some point you're going to cave and give in to her (because you yourself have stated that this is what you do .....you will do anything to give her what she wants). 

So she WILL get what she wants and that's you being on board to "try" to have another baby (because there's no guarantee that it will come to pass) and you getting what you want and that's sex.

It's VERY clear that you are not dug in on this issue and your wife knows she'll eventually get what she wants. Just a matter of time. Your wife wants another baby and you want sex with her. 

Keep fighting it OP but anyone who's followed this thread and have read YOUR words and YOUR actions knows how this is going to play out.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Casual Observer said:


> @CoffeeandTV - You may need to look at this a bit differently. Your wife is not acting normally; that's the one thing you and everyone else here seems to agree upon. It really doesn't matter whether she's got a significant mental disorder in the making or just a mild case of pre-menopausal fear (the loss of fertility looming large). You would not trust someone to make a major decision regarding someone else's life when inebriated, right? And yet we're talking about exactly that- a major decision regarding a potential life-to-be that is going to be dependent upon the two of you for the next umpteen years. This does not seem the right time to make a decision like that. You keep thinking about how it will affect YOUR lives, but little regard for the new kid on the block. Not saying the two of you won't make great parents... again. Just pointing out that decisions of this magnitude shouldn't be made without the benefit of sound mind and body.
> 
> The first pregnancy, was there drinking involved? Did the two of you fully understand the possibilities or were the sense dulled? Did one of you take a leadership role in the decision to raise the kid and get married? Just wondering if some of this is her wanting it to be her choice, her decision this time.


I completely agree with the first paragraph. I also don’t know that nearly enough attention has been paid to a potential future child. I keep thinking ok he’ll have a 53-54 year old dad when he’s 10 years old! My wife only seems focused on babies and there’s been no real talk about this kid when they’re 15 years old and we’re dealing with everything that comes along with a person when they’re 13, 15, 18 years old. I actually loved my kid as a teenager (not that there weren’t challenges) but he was just an easy child overall. We couldn’t have asked for an easier kid. Could we get so lucky the second time around?

There was no alcohol involved when she got pregnant with our son. On a rational level we both were very aware of the potential consequences of unprotected sex but our 15 and 17 year old hormones were not. She was scared of pregnancy every time we had sex back then, even with a condom. It was me who convinced her to do it without a condom just once (wasn’t expecting to have sex and didn’t have any with me). Great, she got her period about a week later and we were relieved. When we found ourselves without a condom again the brain in my little head said “hey, everything worked out last time so you can do it again.” I convinced her just one more time it’d be fine. It wasn’t fine. I take responsibility for that.

When she found out she was pregnant she asked for my opinion and I was honest. I didn’t think having a baby was a good idea at the time, but I also didn’t want to force her to do anything she didn’t want to do. She wanted somebody else to make the decision - me or her parents. Everybody had opinions but nobody would make the actual decision for her, so after weeks of indecision she told me she decided she was keeping the baby and I didn’t have to be involved if I didn’t want to be. I decided to be involved and what had only been a casual high school relationship that was a few months old ended up turning into something more. We became really close through her pregnancy and eventual birth of our son and I fell in actual love with her and vice versa. We got married when our son was 4 years old. By that point we were definitely serious and knew we were ultimately probably headed toward marriage. It was me who wanted to do it at that point because I had a full time job with benefits and wanted to be able to support her and our son. I knew I didn’t want to find somebody else. Have too many of my wants and decisions lead us to where we are now? I like to think there’s been a balance but she may be feeling differently right about now.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> Until the next great sex episode where he says “the sex was great and if she gets pregnant it will be my own fault”.


Fair. You got me there. We discussed the birth control issue. I’m choosing to trust her that she’s telling the truth and hasn’t stopped the birth control. I know where condoms are sold. If I don’t use them I have nobody to blame but myself. I’ve known her for 25 years. I’m choosing to trust that she would never do that to me. I don’t think she would. If I end up being the fool for it, then so be it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> This is exactly how it will be. I’m not impregnating her today (hopefully never). If it happens, it won’t be on a whim after a great blow job! I take it more seriously than that. She’s not going to like everything I’m going to ask her to do and all of the information and plans she’ll have to present to prove to me she’s completely thought it through and is totally prepared. Some people brought up some very good questions about practical things like who will take care of the baby during the day and what will happen if she’s on bed rest for months. So far she’s not touched any of that but then again I wasn’t really willing to get that far into the details before since my automatic answer was no. She will have to give the presentation of her life.


I think you are on the right track here but what I and a few others most strenuously urge you to do is to not leave it up to HER impassioned speeches and presentations, but include the professional input and opinions of doctors and therapists on her physiological, psychological and emotional fitness to conceive, carry, deliver and care for a child for the next 20 years.

Obtain that cold, hard reality from trained professionals that have thoroughly assessed her physical, mental and emotional status as part of your decision making and make an informed decision on what will be the best choice for YOU and the rest of YOUR life. 

Don’t leave it up to her heartfelt speeches. 

I’m using an old saying to make a point so don’t take it as an attack on her - but don’t let the lunatics run the asylum. 

Make a rational decision based on real world facts and figures obtained by professionals through due diligent testing and evaluation. 

If they come back waving the green flag and say that she is mentally and physically sound and you decide that having another child is the least bad option, then that is your informed decision and no one can point a finger and we will all wish you well. 

But if they come back saying her fertility and ability to conceive and carry safely are in serious question and that she is as mad as a hatter right now due to some kind of hormonal or emotional dysfunction and that she is not making rational decisions and that this is all a very volatile and unhealthy situation and you cave in and give in to her crazy demands anyway because you didn’t have the giblets and backbone to stand up for what you know is right -

Then God help you.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Casual Observer said:


> I disagree; his wife is basically grieving a perceived loss. That it’s not rational to everyone here isn’t relevant; to her, it’s very real. This is not something you can shake somebody out of. It’s possible it’s going to take some time to heal from this. Two years down the road, she might not recognize this version of herself. But for now, today, she feels she’s missing out on raising a child as an adult. An experience she never had. She may even feel like she was punished for having a kid in high school, basically never had a choice. And now, she has a choice, but it’s too late.
> 
> Her acting out is dangerous to the relationship though and therapy is warranted.


That is no reason to become abusive. Purposefully hurting her spouse because she's not getting what she needs is marriage breaking behavior. It has to stop before they can move forward. Abuse cannot be ignored. No productive discussion can happen until it stops. 

Addressing abuse should be done without yelling or giving back what he has been getting. War should not be declared. She should be aware that abuse is not going to fly and arrangements should be made to avoid being abused.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Fair. You got me there. We discussed the birth control issue. I’m choosing to trust her that she’s telling the truth and hasn’t stopped the birth control. I know where condoms are sold. If I don’t use them I have nobody to blame but myself. I’ve known her for 25 years.* I’m choosing to trust that she would never do that to me.* I don’t think she would. If I end up being the fool for it, then so be it.


you’ve said this before and anyone that his read your story can see that you are foolish to do so. You played with fire at 17 and got burnt. Have you learned ZERO lessons from that? You say you’re still considering….nonsense, you’re just going about your usual business abd hoping for the best like always. 
Hey, that’s one way to do things and it’s your life. It’s worked good for you this last 35 years. Wishing you luck whatever happens.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Fair. You got me there. We discussed the birth control issue. I’m choosing to trust her that she’s telling the truth and hasn’t stopped the birth control. I know where condoms are sold. If I don’t use them I have nobody to blame but myself. I’ve known her for 25 years. I’m choosing to trust that she would never do that to me. I don’t think she would. If I end up being the fool for it, then so be it.


This is what I mean by leaving the lunatics in charge of the asylum. 

By your own statements you say she has been acting out of character and acting irrationally and yet you are leaving her in charge of YOUR reproductivity and letting her make decisions that will profoundly impact the entire rest of your life in ways you do not want.

If you don’t like my lunatic saying, There is also the old saying that says don’t leave the mouse in charge of the cheese. 

You are leaving an irrational and disordered mouse in charge of all of your cheese for the rest of your life.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Fair. You got me there. We discussed the birth control issue. I’m choosing to trust her that she’s telling the truth and hasn’t stopped the birth control. I know where condoms are sold. If I don’t use them I have nobody to blame but myself. I’ve known her for 25 years. I’m choosing to trust that she would never do that to me. I don’t think she would. If I end up being the fool for it, then so be it.


That’s illogical. If you’re not inclined to hold someone accountable for lying to you to impregnate herself with your child, I’m not sure why this thread exists.

Also, it sounds like it would be very easy for her to lie to you and get away with it.

Probably not of interest to you, but leaving it for potentially someone else: 10 Things That May Happen to Your Body When You Stop Birth Control


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> you’ve said this before and anyone that his read your story can see that you are foolish to do so. You played with fire at 17 and got burnt. Have you learned ZERO lessons from that? You say you’re still considering….nonsense, you’re just going about your usual business abd hoping for the best like always.
> Hey, that’s one way to do things and it’s your life. It’s worked good for you this last 35 years. Wishing you luck whatever happens.


The difference is that I knew she wasn’t on birth control back then and she never said that she was.

Ok, it would be wiser and safer to use condoms right now just in case. I agree. How long do I continue to wear a condom when having sex with my wife? Until she doesn’t seem mental about a baby anymore? Until we “discuss it” and then I put my foot down and get a vasectomy? Do I tell her I’m wearing a condom every time until she allows me to become her personal birth control dispensary each morning, and she better open her mouth to show me she actually swallowed her pill? I trust her 100% that she’s not lying about being on birth control right now. I know women trick men this way but I don’t think she would ever do that to me.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

PieceOfSky said:


> That’s illogical. If you’re not inclined to hold someone accountable for lying to you to impregnate herself with your child, I’m not sure why this thread exists.
> 
> Also, it sounds like it would be very easy for her to lie to you and get away with it.
> 
> Probably not of interest to you, but leaving it for potentially someone else: 10 Things That May Happen to Your Body When You Stop Birth Control


It’s easy for me to say “that’s on me” when I feel certain she’s not lying. I get it, she basically withheld all sex for 3 months so what’s stopping her from tricking me into getting her pregnant? I just feel like I know her much better than that.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

I guess I have learned after all of this, nearly 50 pages, that I am indeed just a dumb guy led by his penis. I wave the white flag.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I guess I have learned after all of this, nearly 50 pages, that I am indeed just a dumb guy led by his penis. I wave the white flag.


Or instead of waving white flags you can become responsible for your own reproductivity and well being.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I trust her 100% that she’s not lying about being on birth control right now. I know women trick men this way but I don’t think she would ever do that to me.


Did you think she would ever act the way she is now? I'm guessing the answer is "no". Spouses can surprise us, and not in a good way.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> It’s easy for me to say “that’s on me” when I feel certain she’s not lying. I get it, she basically withheld all sex for 3 months so what’s stopping her from tricking me into getting her pregnant? I just feel like I know her much better than that.


4 months ago would you have believed that she would be intentionally withhold love and affection from you and have your life turned upside down due to her having intrusive and obsessive thoughts on getting pregnant at 40?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I don't think her wanting a baby is any indication of mental illness. I do think that having obsessive thoughts and a suddenly change in personality may be an indication of some sort of mental breakdown. If she was normally vindictive and cruel, then I wouldn't say that. But for her to go from being a loving, supportive wife to being downright mean and demanding seems that something new is going on. If this happened to me, I'd seek help from someone I trust, like a therapist or someone whose wisdom I trusted.

I think it's normal, probably even common, for women to suddenly regret not having another baby when they get to a certain age. I know that I did, when I was highly opposed to having another baby for years. My situation was quite different than the OP's, as I had three young children at the time.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Or that she would be jealous of her DIL's pregnancy and adamant about not wanting to be a grandma.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I guess I have learned after all of this, nearly 50 pages, that I am indeed just a dumb guy led by his penis. I wave the white flag.


This thread does seem to have run its course. Hopefully you will be around when you find out whether it's a boy or a girl.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Or that she would be jealous of her DIL's pregnancy and adamant about not wanting to be a grandma.


I doubt it's that uncommon for people to be feeling things about becoming a young grandparent. 

I made my parents grandparents at 47 and 13 years later they still aren't over it. I saw my dad yesterday and he made a resentment filled about making them grandparents "too early". My mom was totally against being called "grandma" or anything comparable, still is. 

My wife's mother would have been 41 and definitely wasn't happy about it either.


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## AlwaysImproving (5 mo ago)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I guess I have learned after all of this, nearly 50 pages, that I am indeed just a dumb guy led by his penis. I wave the white flag.


Enjoy being a dad again. Hopefully the sex manipulation doesn't continue even when you have another kid as well.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

bobert said:


> I doubt it's that uncommon for people to be feeling things about becoming a young grandparent.
> 
> I made my parents grandparents at 47 and 13 years later they still aren't over it. I saw my dad yesterday and he made a resentment filled about making them grandparents "too early". My mom was totally against being called "grandma" or anything comparable, still is.
> 
> My wife's mother would have been 41 and definitely wasn't happy about it either.


Well, maybe we just need to eliminate the word from the English language. Of course, if you don't want to be a grandma at 40, don't have kids at 15! It could have been much earlier if the son had followed in their footsteps.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Cynthia said:


> I don't think her wanting a baby is any indication of mental illness. I do think that having obsessive thoughts and a suddenly change in personality may be an indication of some sort of mental breakdown. If she was normally vindictive and cruel, then I wouldn't say that. But for her to go from being a loving, supportive wife to being downright mean and demanding seems that something new is going on. If this happened to me, I'd seek help from someone I trust, like a therapist or someone whose wisdom I trusted.
> 
> I think it's normal, probably even common, for women to suddenly regret not having another baby when they get to a certain age. I know that I did, when I was highly opposed to having another baby for years. My situation was quite different than the OP's, as I had three young children at the time.


Here's the thing we don't know. 

If she actually has never been told no by him about something she really wants, this side of her never had a chance to come out, it never had to. 

Maybe it's not new behavior, but just that she's never been put in a "no" situation before so had never exhibited this side of her personality.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> Here's the thing we don't know.
> 
> If she actually has never been told no by him about something she really wants, this side of her never had a chance to come out, it never had to.
> 
> Maybe it's not new behavior, but just that she's never been put in a "no" situation before so had never exhibited this side of her personality.


Ok but if she is used to always getting her way and him always complying with her wishes, then if this is something that she wanted, she would have approached him about it years ago and they would have more kids now and none of this would be an issue today. 

It's the fact this suddenly came out of left field one day with her going nuclear right off the bat that makes this situation concerning.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Ok but if she is used to always getting her way and him always complying with her wishes, then if this is something that she wanted, she would have approached him about it years ago and they would have more kids now and none of this would be an issue today.
> 
> It's the fact this suddenly came out of left field one day with her going nuclear right off the bat that makes this situation concerning.


She went nuclear because she's been told no. Maybe she was never told no before and would have gone nuclear in the past as well, if told no. 

People are assuming this is some new behavior (her shenanigans after being told no) but maybe she never reacted like this because she was never denied something she wanted.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Here's the thing we don't know.
> 
> If she actually has never been told no by him about something she really wants, this side of her never had a chance to come out, it never had to.
> 
> Maybe it's not new behavior, but just that she's never been put in a "no" situation before so had never exhibited this side of her personality.


Yup. I suggested earlier he created this monster, at least partly.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Ok but if she is used to always getting her way and him always complying with her wishes, then if this is something that she wanted, she would have approached him about it years ago and they would have more kids now and none of this would be an issue today.
> 
> It's the fact this suddenly came out of left field one day with her going nuclear right off the bat that makes this situation concerning.


That's true. It was all kicked off by the DIL getting positive attention and her being triggered by that from her teen pregnancy and having a burning desire to "show everyone" who told her what to do back then. That's some psychological stuff.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Livvie said:


> She went nuclear because she's been told no. Maybe she was never told no before and would have gone nuclear in the past as well, if told no.
> 
> People are assuming this is some new behavior (her shenanigans after being told no) but maybe she never reacted like this because she was never denied something she wanted.


Yeah, true. I mean narcissists can be perfect happy as long as they are getting their own way and then do a Mr. Hyde as soon as they're not. However, I feel some of the things she has been talking about having a crazy tinge as well. Funny how the one time the word "unhinged" might have been true on this forum is the one time no one has used it. But he commented on that indirectly.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

bobert said:


> I doubt it's that uncommon for people to be feeling things about becoming a young grandparent.
> 
> I made my parents grandparents at 47 and 13 years later they still aren't over it. I saw my dad yesterday and he made a resentment filled about making them grandparents "too early". My mom was totally against being called "grandma" or anything comparable, still is.
> 
> My wife's mother would have been 41 and definitely wasn't happy about it either.


Wife n I became grandparents mid-40s. Loved it! Both loved being called grandma and grandpa. Were proud of it and told anyone who would listen. 

People who had kids in early 20s are likely to be grandparents from late 30s on. No big deal


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Your wife is seeing her last chance for a child with her age. Having a grandchild might make all the difference in the world for her. You both just need to talk this through.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, maybe we just need to eliminate the word from the English language. Of course, if you don't want to be a grandma at 40, don't have kids at 15! It could have been much earlier if the son had followed in their footsteps.


My wife is hardly the first or last woman to not like the idea of being called “grandma,” especially before she’s even 50 years old. I’ll admit there have been moments where I’ve thought “Grandpa? Not me. I’m not old enough for that!” Both my wife and I had much older grandparents who were in their mid 60s, at least, by the time we were born so when we think of our own grandparents we picture people in their 70s and 80s. Our own parents were older than we are now when we had our son.

It doesn’t mean we aren’t happy for our son and his wife. Covid permitting, she’s planning to be at the hospital during labor and delivery (she was invited along with the other grandma to be) because she wants to support our son and see her grandchild as soon as he/she is born (surprise gender reveal at birth). She’s excited and proud of our son. My wife has been very supportive of them, even if sometimes she comes home from visiting them and cries a few tears over her baby being all grown up. It does make you stop and wonder how time passed so quickly though. I can understand what my wife meant when she said she was 35 just yesterday, our son was just starting high school and now he’s graduated college, married, and has a baby on the way? How?

Remember, people are having children later in life, on average, than they were a few decades ago. None of our friends that are our age are grandparents or even close to it, unless one of their kids pulls something like we did. Most people we know and around where we live aren’t having babies in their early or mid-20s these days. My son is the only guy in his friend group that he’s had since high school who is married and about to become a father.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, your son’s generation as a rule isn’t marrying young. My grandchildren are shocked at the idea of marriage before 30. They don’t know of anyone who is married or wants to be now. So if your son were in line with his generation, you wouldn’t be grandparents nearly this early. However, you’re going to be and it’s a lot more fun than being an older grandparent. I was fairly young with my first two grandchildren and very active. I couldn’t do any of that now so better to have them younger than older. If your wife weren’t so fixated on a baby of her own, it would be prime time to enjoy a grandchild.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Rus47 said:


> Honestly, I feel sorry for her and understand her drive for another child. And you summarize the situation perfectly. She played by all of the rules and arrived at early middle age intact having weathered all of the storms. It would be similar to having lived in a cheap apartment for 20 years saving to build a dream home in the mountains only to be told by the spouse there is no way in h3ll they are going to move to the mountains.
> 
> In OP's shoes, if she were my wife, and *IF* she hadn't pulled the withholding sex thing, I would be inclined to have another child with her. Yes it is a lot of work and money, but the investment is well worth the time and money spent. They already did it once, the second time ought to be easier. They are acually pretty young to be empty nesters anyway.
> 
> He and his wife have been together for all of their adult lives, sad to think this could destroy that marriage. In his shoes, I would have a series of discussions about the ramifications of having another child. All the things that will impact their lives. Give her the opportunity to convince with logic that it is doable, and confirm just how committed she is to this path. And, he ought to seriously consider his own objections to confirm that they all hold water.


She should have brought up another kid a couple decades ago if she really wanted another child. I would tell her she should have brought this up back then....you missed the boat!

Him not wanting to take the time, headache, money and energy to raise another child at his age would be like a man telling his wife she needs to sleep with him Every Day for the next 18-22 yrs and be proactive and actively engaged in the sex. Many women's head would explode at that. 

But most women would see no problem in a man being told he should have another child if wife wants one and be pissed if he is not happy at being subjected to 18+ years of all the crap that is entailed in raising a child.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Wish me luck. She’s taking a pregnancy test to appease me today and then making a doctor’s appointment tomorrow morning. She threw up “randomly” for the third time in a little over a week this afternoon. I know there are many potential reasons but she’s starting to make me a little paranoid now. She’s pissed and just slammed the door on her way to go get a pregnancy test to prove me wrong. It’s probably something else though and I’m concerned. She’s agreed to a doctors appointment at least.


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## DaringGreatly (7 mo ago)

Good luck. 

Does she ever suggest potential reasons why she is throwing up, does she have any other symptoms?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

No, she seems perfectly fine and then she’ll suddenly become very pale like she doesn’t feel good, throws up, feels a bit sickly for a short time afterwards then is perfectly normal again. Today it happened when we were just laying in bed and she said that maybe I am right about this whole thing. Yes we had sex, shoot me. Then out of the blue she suddenly didn’t feel good and rushed to the bathroom to vomit. Something is not normal.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

No, something is definitely not normal. I never threw up when I was pregnant so I don’t know how common throwing up is but if she’s not pregnant then something else Is going on and obviously needs to be addressed. But ruling out pregnancy first is the way to go.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Is she still going to work? She could be throwing up at work and not even tell you.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

If the pregnancy test proves her to be pregnant, does that mean she hasn't taken her birth control on purpose?

In the early months of my pregnancy I was vomiting lots and I also had a higher sex drive. I hope for you she hasn't got pregnant with you thinking she was on her birth control. 

All her strange behaviour could be because she knows she is pregnant and has been acting odd to see what your thoughts of having a baby were. 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Maybe she's throwing up because the sex isn't good? 😁


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> My wife is hardly the first or last woman to not like the idea of being called “grandma,” especially before she’s even 50 years old. I’ll admit there have been moments where I’ve thought “Grandpa? Not me. I’m not old enough for that!” Both my wife and I had much older grandparents who were in their mid 60s, at least, by the time we were born so when we think of our own grandparents we picture people in their 70s and 80s. Our own parents were older than we are now when we had our son.
> 
> It doesn’t mean we aren’t happy for our son and his wife. Covid permitting, she’s planning to be at the hospital during labor and delivery (she was invited along with the other grandma to be) because she wants to support our son and see her grandchild as soon as he/she is born (surprise gender reveal at birth). She’s excited and proud of our son. My wife has been very supportive of them, even if sometimes she comes home from visiting them and cries a few tears over her baby being all grown up. It does make you stop and wonder how time passed so quickly though. I can understand what my wife meant when she said she was 35 just yesterday, our son was just starting high school and now he’s graduated college, married, and has a baby on the way? How?
> 
> Remember, people are having children later in life, on average, than they were a few decades ago. None of our friends that are our age are grandparents or even close to it, unless one of their kids pulls something like we did. Most people we know and around where we live aren’t having babies in their early or mid-20s these days. My son is the only guy in his friend group that he’s had since high school who is married and about to become a father.


It’s a simple solution. Choose a different name to be called. Papa? GiGi? Choose something you want. No one says it has to be grampa and grandma


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> No, she seems perfectly fine and then she’ll suddenly become very pale like she doesn’t feel good, throws up, feels a bit sickly for a short time afterwards then is perfectly normal again. Today it happened when we were just laying in bed and she said that maybe I am right about this whole thing. Yes we had sex, shoot me. Then out of the blue she suddenly didn’t feel good and rushed to the bathroom to vomit. Something is not normal.


She is pregnant. Have you had her take a pregnancy test yet?


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Openminded said:


> No, something is definitely not normal. I never threw up when I was pregnant so I don’t know how common throwing up is but if she’s not pregnant then something else Is going on and obviously needs to be addressed. But ruling out pregnancy first is the way to go.


Oh, I did throw up when I was pregnant so if you did not you were lucky. It was no fun!


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

She bought a test but says she’ll take it in the morning because morning pee is the most accurate. What does it matter if she’s not pregnant? Just pee on it and relieve my nerves.

She’s very upset with me. She went into her room (her craft room and office) and told me to not talk to her for the rest of the night.

She didn’t really get sick at all when pregnant with our son. I know it’s likely something else but it doesn’t really gel with a stomach bug or food poisoning. I’m genuinely worried about her. She’s normally very healthy and I can’t even remember the last time she threw up. Interestingly, Dr. Google tells me intermittent vomiting can be caused by hormonal imbalances, which makes sense since hormone levels are what cause it in pregnancy as well.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Beach123 said:


> It’s a simple solution. Choose a different name to be called. Papa? GiGi? Choose something you want. No one says it has to be grampa and grandma


It's not always that simple. 

My mom refused to be "Grandma". She came up with some other name but I don't remember what it was. Guess what the kids decided to call her? 

Grandma. And Gamma/Gammy. 

My oldest couldn't make the "r" sound and started calling her Gamma or Gammy as a toddler and it stuck for my kids. Well, the oldest 3. The younger three don't know who she is and don't speak much anyway.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

She can’t be pregnant. She was drunk a few days ago and she wouldn’t do that. She’s intentionally holding out on taking the test because she’s mad at me and wants to make me sweat.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She can’t be pregnant. She was drunk a few days ago and she wouldn’t do that. She’s intentionally holding out on taking the test because she’s mad at me and wants to make me sweat.


And what is she mad at you about? And why? You trying to help her find out why she is throwing up. Its like she looking for reason to punish you.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

bobert said:


> It's not always that simple.
> 
> My mom refused to be "Grandma". She came up with some other name but I don't remember what it was. Guess what the kids decided to call her?
> 
> ...


I already told my son and daughter-in-law that they can call me whatever they want, grandpa or whatever they come up with or whatever the kid decides to call me, but just don’t call you know who grandma. That’s when I told my son she’s suddenly gone berserk about wanting a baby herself and he’s like 🙄

She’s trying to come up with her own name but hasn’t found something that clicks yet. She already said his wife’s mom is grandma so she can’t have that name too. I wonder how “grandma” feels about that? Maybe she doesn’t want to be called that either!


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She can’t be pregnant. She was drunk a few days ago and she wouldn’t do that. She’s intentionally holding out on taking the test because she’s mad at me and wants to make me sweat.


That's ****ing rude. She's simply awful.

Yes morning pee might be more concentrated but you can take a test anytime. So freaking take one now and another in the morning. 

You are worried. She won't take a quick pregnancy test. That's monstrous.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

I never threw up with my 1st pregnancy and with my 2nd I was really sick. Make sure you are with her when she opens the packet and when she does the test. She could dip it in water otherwise.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> And what is she mad at you about? And why? You trying to help her find out why she is throwing up. Its like she looking for reason to punish you.


Not trusting her. I explained that it’s not that I don’t trust her but with all of this strange behavior lately I’m starting to wonder what to think. I’m not even accusing her of doing anything on purpose, but it’s just a worrying coincidence that I’ve seen her randomly throw up 3 times recently with no explanation during a time when she’s so set on having a baby. I tried to explain that maybe this will help her to understand why to me it wasn’t just some silly stubborn game of withholding sex, it’s a concerning change in behavior that makes me wonder what exactly she’s up to.

She drank alcohol and I saw blood in her underwear. Chances are very high she’s not pregnant but I don’t understand why she won’t just pee on the stick then tonight to prove me wrong. She can rub it in my face if she wants, just do it!


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Its like she looking for any reason to be mad at you


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

hCG is diluted if she has peed recently or had too much fluids. If she was very early an evening test might show up negative or very faint, while a morning test may be positive - especially if she bought the digital type. 

She may very well just be trying to drag this out, like you said. It's also possible that she doesn't want to take the test because she knows it will be negative. For a woman who desperately wants to be pregnant, that "no" can be a hard thing to see. 

Every pregnancy is different though. She could be so sick she's hospitalized in one pregnancy and zero nausea in another, or anywhere in between. 

Unless she had a miscarriage or subchorionic hematoma, it's unlikely she's pregnant. The drinking... "drink till it's pink" is a saying.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She can’t be pregnant. She was drunk a few days ago and she wouldn’t do that. She’s intentionally holding out on taking the test because she’s mad at me and wants to make me sweat.


You mean she’s upset that you would think that her character would include stopping her birth control and tricking you into pregnancy? She even showed you her pill pack. She’s given you what reason to not trust her? Sure she wants a baby but she’s been straight about that. You also were pulling out a month ago or so. So yeah your treating her like she lies to you about big things. So does she?


There are plenty here that will accuse her of just that. Just recently you said no she wasn’t like that. I guess no you think she is. Don’t have a baby with someone you trust so little.

But for what it’s worth Google it and they will recommend morning per because the hormone is stronger in the morning.

Vomiting can be lots of stuff. I hope she isn’t pregnant.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Rus47 said:


> Its like she looking for any reason to be mad at you


No it’s like he’s treating her like a untrustworthy person and she doesn’t like it. How would you like if your wife called you a liar. I doubt it would go over well.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> You mean she’s upset that you would think that her character would include stopping her birth control and tricking you into pregnancy? She even showed you her pill pack. She’s given you what reason to not trust her? Sure she wants a baby but she’s been straight about that. You also were pulling out a month ago or so. So yeah your treating her like she lies to you about big things. So does she?
> 
> 
> There are plenty here that will accuse her of just that. Just recently you said no she wasn’t like that. I guess no you think she is. Don’t have a baby with someone you trust so little.
> ...


I’m not saying that she tricked me. I’ve thought of all sorts of things, like maybe she went off the pill several months ago in anticipation of trying for a baby and assumed I’d say yes, not with the intention of getting pregnant “accidentally.” If that was the case, it would have been one of the earlier times we had sex and I didn’t pull out.

I feel bad. I guess I am a jerk. I do trust her but I don’t know what she was thinking or doing 3 months ago when maybe she thought I’d easily agree to her idea. I’m telling you the way she presented it to me at that time was like she decided it and we were naturally just going to do it. She has names picked out already and will convert her little hobby room into the nursery. She was making actual plans and then told me. I don’t know, I know I’m probably acting like the crazy one now. It’ll be negative and then she won’t let me live it down.

If she’s not pregnant and she knows that she’s not what does it matter if she waits for morning pee or not? I’ll take evening pee.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

Could your wife be going through this? She wants a baby that much she is starting to have symptoms, nausea, vomitting.

Only recently have doctors begun to understand the psychological and physical issues that are at the root of pseudocyesis. Although the exact causes still aren't known, doctors suspect that psychological factors may trick the body into "thinking" that it's pregnant.

When a woman feels an intense desire to get pregnant, which may be because of infertility, repeat miscarriages, impending menopause, or a desire to get married, their body may produce some pregnancy signs (such as a swollen belly, vomiting, nausea, enlarged breasts, and even the sensation of fetal movement). The woman's brain then misinterprets those signals as pregnancy, and triggers the release of hormones (such as estrogen and prolactin) that lead to actual pregnancy symptoms



Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

bobert said:


> t's also possible that she doesn't want to take the test because she knows it will be negative. For a woman who desperately wants to be pregnant, that "no" can be a hard thing to see.


And now I feel like double the jerk.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> Could your wife be going through this? She wants a baby that much she is starting to have symptoms, nausea, vomitting.
> 
> Only recently have doctors begun to understand the psychological and physical issues that are at the root of pseudocyesis. Although the exact causes still aren't known, doctors suspect that psychological factors may trick the body into "thinking" that it's pregnant.
> 
> ...


That's called hysterical pregnancy. 

Just be sure she doesn't have someone else pee on the test.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That's called hysterical pregnancy.
> 
> Just be sure she doesn't have someone else pee on the test.


Hysterical pregnancy? Sounds exactly like what I was just telling her - lifetime movie territory. She was saying she can’t stop touching her belly and just wants to feel a baby in there. I have caught her doing it. I don’t know this is too much now. This is feeling a little nutty to me.

Unless she holds it under our dog, theres nobody else here.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m not saying that she tricked me. I’ve thought of all sorts of things, like maybe she went off the pill several months ago in anticipation of trying for a baby and assumed I’d say yes, not with the intention of getting pregnant “accidentally.” If that was the case, it would have been one of the earlier times we had sex and I didn’t pull out.
> 
> I feel bad. I guess I am a jerk. I do trust her but I don’t know what she was thinking or doing 3 months ago when maybe she thought I’d easily agree to her idea. I’m telling you the way she presented it to me at that time was like she decided it and we were naturally just going to do it. She has names picked out already and will convert her little hobby room into the nursery. She was making actual plans and then told me. I don’t know, I know I’m probably acting like the crazy one now. It’ll be negative and then she won’t let me live it down.
> 
> If she’s not pregnant and she knows that she’s not what does it matter if she waits for morning pee or not? I’ll take evening pee.


Look she hasn't handled this well. You too have made some missteps. But how about we work on where you want to be in the future. You want her to think you don't trust her? You are desperately wanting her to take a test tonight when it won't be accurate and when she tells you she's on birth control. So what does that say?


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Hysterical pregnancy? Sounds exactly like what I was just telling her - lifetime movie territory. She was saying she can’t stop touching her belly and just wants to feel a baby in there. I have caught her doing it. I don’t know this is too much now. This is feeling a little nutty to me.
> 
> Unless she holds it under our dog, theres nobody else here.


It's psychosomatic behavior in the extreme if it's hysterical pregnancy. And like I said too many times already, she needs to see a psychologist, whether she's pregnant or not.


----------



## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> Look she hasn't handled this well. You too have made some missteps. But how about we work on where you want to be in the future. You want her to think you don't trust her? You are desperately wanting her to take a test tonight when it won't be accurate and when she tells you she's on birth control. So what does that say?


You’re right. I say that I trust her but my actions are sending mixed signals and right now they’re saying I absolutely don’t. I shouldn’t have even asked her to take a test. She agreed to call her regular doctor to make an appointment tomorrow regarding the vomiting. I should have left it at that. They’d probably run a pregnancy test as part of any sort of work up if they even suspected it anyway. I handled it poorly. Now she’s mad at me and I feel like we were making a tiny bit of progress. She hadn’t even brought up the baby subject all weekend after I asked her to take a slight pause. The only thing she said was today when she told me she knows she’s not supposed to talk about it but that she just wanted to say maybe I’m right, and then she threw up. I didn’t need to flip out. I asked if she was sure she wasn’t pregnant. She said yes she was sure, that she’d be happy if she was. I told her she’s acting so strange I don’t know what to think and that she needs to promise to call her doctor in the morning to get checked out. Ok she promised she would. I had to add that she should take a test, it’d make me feel better. I’m a jerk with thinks with his penis alright. Maybe I should just apologize and tell her to forget the test, that I was the one acting crazy, and she just needs to see her doctor to make sure she doesn’t have something (illness, not pregnancy) going on causing these vomiting episodes.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> You’re right. I say that I trust her but my actions are sending mixed signals and right now they’re saying I absolutely don’t. I shouldn’t have even asked her to take a test. She agreed to call her regular doctor to make an appointment tomorrow regarding the vomiting. I should have left it at that. They’d probably run a pregnancy test as part of any sort of work up if they even suspected it anyway. I handled it poorly. Now she’s mad at me and I feel like we were making a tiny bit of progress. She hadn’t even brought up the baby subject all weekend after I asked her to take a slight pause. The only thing she said was today when she told me she knows she’s not supposed to talk about it but that she just wanted to say maybe I’m right, and then she threw up. I didn’t need to flip out. I asked if she was sure she wasn’t pregnant. She said yes she was sure, that she’d be happy if she was. I told her she’s acting so strange I don’t know what to think and that she needs to promise to call her doctor in the morning to get checked out. Ok she promised she would. I had to add that she should take a test, it’d make me feel better. I’m a jerk with thinks with his penis alright. Maybe I should just apologize and tell her to forget the test, that I was the one acting crazy, and she just needs to see her doctor to make sure she doesn’t have something (illness, not pregnancy) going on causing these vomiting episodes.


Might as well let her take the test. The damage is already done. But do make sure she follows up with her doctor. Vomiting could be covid, bowel issues, gallstones, stomach bug, hormonal imbalance, cancer and such. 

I'd be interested in blood work. You can get the same hormonal imbalance from ovarian and other female cancers as you can with pregnancy.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

She's defensive that you don't trust her but she has given you no reason lately to trust her. 

There's an old saying, If you have the law on your side, pound the law; if you have the truth on your side, pound the truth; if you have neither, pound the table.


She's pounding the table on a pretty regular basis.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> Might as well let her take the test. The damage is already done. But do make sure she follows up with her doctor. Vomiting could be covid, bowel issues, gallstones, stomach bug, hormonal imbalance, cancer and such.
> 
> I'd be interested in blood work. You can get the same hormonal imbalance from ovarian and other female cancers as you can with pregnancy.


Wonderful.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

@CoffeeandTV 

Recall my previous post? I told you to take your wife to a doctor for physical evaluation. The doctor is supposed to determine what she should do.

Why you pushed your wife to take pregnancy test on your own? This shows that you do not trust her. I can understand why she is mad at you.

You are on a slippery slope, I'm telling you.


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## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

How about test now and another in the morning?
And then agree to both waive the white flag and sit down and talk about where you two are right now?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> @CoffeeandTV
> 
> Recall my previous post? I told you to take your wife to a doctor for physical evaluation. The doctor is supposed to determine what she should do.
> 
> ...


Yes, I failed and feel stupid and like a grade A jerk. I feel like this whole situation has made both of us act not like ourselves.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Recent actions have given him no reason to trust her and she knows it.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Yes, I failed and feel stupid and like a grade A jerk. I feel like this whole situation has made both of us act not like ourselves.


You never answered me if you trust her or not?

But in the future try to think strategically. Such as you asked her to take a pregnancy test you didn't need to push for tonight. Or better would be we need to get you checked out due to vomiting, like you said the doctor is going to give her a pregnancy test and knowing a few days earlier isn't going to change it if she is. But it does change the mood and tone between you two.

I will reiterate. Don't have a baby with someone you don't trust. frankly don't stay married to someone you don't trust...


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Recent actions have given him no reason to trust her and she knows it.


A woman is unlikely to be intimate with a man in a significant conflict situation. What about OP's mistakes and mishandling of his situation? Why is he being patronized?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> You never answered me if you trust her or not?
> 
> But in the future try to think strategically. Such as you asked her to take a pregnancy test you didn't need to push for tonight. Or better would be we need to get you checked out due to vomiting, like you said the doctor is going to give her a pregnancy test and knowing a few days earlier isn't going to change it if she is. But it does change the mood and tone between you two.
> 
> I will reiterate. Don't have a baby with someone you don't trust. frankly don't stay married to someone you don't trust...


I trust that she’s not currently, nor has she ever attempted or planned to trick me into getting her pregnant. I do mean that. She’s never given me reason not to trust her.

But lately I’ve started to think a lot of strange things myself. This has really thrown me for a loop. I’ve thought maybe she wasn’t planning on becoming pregnant so quickly and she thought I’d agree to it and then she did get pregnant and because I’ve said nothing but no she didn’t want to tell me “surprise I’m already pregnant.” Typing that out now I realize it’s ridiculous. I wasn’t thinking with my rational mind when I asked her to take a test. If I had been, I would have been thinking about the period she had, the drinking the other day. She’d never drink while knowingly pregnant, especially if she was pregnant with a baby she so desperately wants.

Earlier today I was the one reading articles about pregnancy at 40+. I was at the point of trying to decide if I should just say screw it, let’s talk this over and come up with a plan of how we see the future going with another child and how can we both be satisfied moving forward, let’s go to the doctor get you checked out and get the green light and then give it 6 months and if it happens naturally it happens and if not we’ll accept that’s it and no IVF, we’ll just accept that it’s not meant to be. I feel like my mind is just ping ponging and I really just want her to be happy and I’m tired of this.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> A woman is unlikely to be intimate with a man in a significant conflict situation. What about OP's mistakes and mishandling of his situation? Why is he being patronized?


I totally disagree with your first sentence. It's how she knows she can manipulate him.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Coffee, there's another thing called sympathetic pregnancy. Sometimes even men get it when their wives are pregnant.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> If the pregnancy test proves her to be pregnant, does that mean she hasn't taken her birth control on purpose?
> 
> In the early months of my pregnancy I was vomiting lots and I also had a higher sex drive. I hope for you she hasn't got pregnant with you thinking she was on her birth control.
> 
> ...


Ooh. Nice wisdom. That's very interesting.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> A woman is unlikely to be intimate with a man in a significant conflict situation.


Uhhh...... Have you ever read history???


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I totally disagree with your first sentence. It's how she knows she can manipulate him.


Will you be intimate with a man while finding yourself in a significant conflict with him? I really doubt this. You will be LESS intimate with him at minimum.

OP's wife wants to have a baby and she have told him this much in clear terms. This is completely legitimate demand on her part [as his wife]. OP is not willing to have a baby on the other hand. He dismissed her feelings and the two are at an impasse since. OP also issued a potentially marriage-damaging statement to her in one of his arguments (that she can have a baby with another man but him). OP's wife is in distress and does not feels she can be very intimate with her husband under these circumstances. Completely understandable.

Me and a few others advised OP to listen to his wife and do not shut her down. He did this, and the two were on talking terms again. But OP decided to shut her down (again) and have told her to take pregnancy test [on his own] in view of her strange symptoms instead of taking her to the doctor for evaluation. His wife have told him that she is on birth control but he does not seem to trust her.

I am not sure how OP's wife is manipulating him. She is very honest and upfront with him. This is NOT manipulation.



ConanHub said:


> Uhhh...... Have you ever read history???


See above.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Will you be intimate with a man while finding yourself in a significant conflict with him? I really doubt this. You will be LESS intimate with him at minimum.
> 
> OP's wife wants to have a baby and she have told him this much in clear terms. This is completely legitimate demand on her part [as his wife]. OP is not willing to have a baby on the other hand. He dismissed her feelings and the two are at an impasse since. OP also issued a potentially marriage-damaging statement to her in one of his arguments (that she can have a baby with another man but him). OP's wife is in distress and does not feels she can be very intimate with her husband under these circumstances. Completely understandable.
> 
> ...


LoL. Women have had sex throughout history in any number of circumstances and for any number of reasons.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I don’t think she’s pregnant but FYI

Fewer than 1 in 100 women will get pregnant in a year when using the combined pill correctly. Typical use: around 91% effective. Around 9 in 100 women using the combined pill will get pregnant in a year.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> LoL. Women have had sex throughout history in any number of circumstances and for any number of reasons.


The level of intimacy between a couple will fluctuate through THICK and THIN phases of the relationship. If (or when) a 'significant conflict situation' develops in a relationship, it can cause emotional distress in a woman and she might not feel 'secure' in her relationship at this stage; she is very likely to refuse sex and shut down at this stage. It depends.

In abusive martial situations, the husband could be FORCING his wife to have sex with him. This is different.

There is much about a relationship dynamic that is NOT apparent on the web. WE have to take the account of posting member at face value.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> My wife is hardly the first or last woman to not like the idea of being called “grandma,” especially before she’s even 50 years old. I’ll admit there have been moments where I’ve thought “Grandpa? Not me. I’m not old enough for that!” Both my wife and I had much older grandparents who were in their mid 60s, at least, by the time we were born so when we think of our own grandparents we picture people in their 70s and 80s. Our own parents were older than we are now when we had our son.
> 
> It doesn’t mean we aren’t happy for our son and his wife. Covid permitting, she’s planning to be at the hospital during labor and delivery (she was invited along with the other grandma to be) because she wants to support our son and see her grandchild as soon as he/she is born (surprise gender reveal at birth). She’s excited and proud of our son. My wife has been very supportive of them, even if sometimes she comes home from visiting them and cries a few tears over her baby being all grown up. It does make you stop and wonder how time passed so quickly though. I can understand what my wife meant when she said she was 35 just yesterday, our son was just starting high school and now he’s graduated college, married, and has a baby on the way? How?
> 
> Remember, people are having children later in life, on average, than they were a few decades ago. None of our friends that are our age are grandparents or even close to it, unless one of their kids pulls something like we did. Most people we know and around where we live aren’t having babies in their early or mid-20s these days. My son is the only guy in his friend group that he’s had since high school who is married and about to become a father.


My 2 sons came along when wife was 32 and 37. Would have been sooner, not for the 7 miscarries. She wanted 9 kids, after 2nd one, she was like WTH was I thinking. The 2nd 5 yrs after 1st was worse, in that it threw us back in to child care and it was harder on her to recover from. The look in her blue eyes when the OBGYN said "Oh, you gonna have BIG baby...12-13#" She was 5'03" 120 when started, quickly developed a belly that looked like she was gonna have twins. We did not like it, but it was what it was. He was here. Ready or not.

She knows she really does have her 9 children, but will have to wait to meet the other 7.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Anastasia6 said:


> I don’t think she’s pregnant but FYI
> 
> Fewer than 1 in 100 women will get pregnant in a year when using the combined pill correctly. Typical use: around 91% effective. Around 9 in 100 women using the combined pill will get pregnant in a year.


Yes, birth control pills can also fail. Only 'abstaining' is foolproof. My wife told me as much.

I really appreciate your level of wisdom in person. I think 'many' can learn from your wisdom and posts on TAM. Please keep posting.

@CoffeeandTV 

FYI

This is why it is important for you to consult a doctor. You are not qualified to draw conclusions on your own.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I think it’s sad you have stooped to second guessing yourself/what you want.

Now you are saying you are a jerk. I haven’t seen this as you being a jerk at all. You want a life a certain way. You’ve told her you prefer no more babies.

Stop second guessing your wants. And now she knows you don’t trust her (who would - she acting so erratic) and is mad about that too?
She had created a mess of this situation. It’s on HER. 

And I hope she isn’t pregnant already… that would just be manipulative and mean and vindictive.

Stop trying to make HER bad behavior YOURS.

Decide what you want - stick to it.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Will you be intimate with a man while finding yourself in a significant conflict with him? I really doubt this. You will be LESS intimate with him at minimum.


Some women will and that incudes substantially, just as there are some who won't.

For example my wife will certainly share sex with me on the few occasions we have had significant conflict, and she has never held back on what we share. In fact I am more inclined to not want to share sex than her in such instances.

Likewise and more significantly, my ex-wife was always keen to share sex with me, with extraordinary intimacy and willingness while we were separated pending divorce (including begging me for it). Plus for a time before our marriage when we had broken up as girlfriend and boyfriend, we shared lots of tremendous sex together while we were in significant conflict and she didn't like me.

Things aren't as black and white as you erroneously proclaim.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Personal said:


> Some women will and that incudes substantially, just as there are some who won't.
> 
> For example my wife will certainly share sex with me on the few occasions we have had significant conflict, and she has never held back on what we share. In fact I am more inclined to not want to share sex than her in such instances.
> 
> ...


OK.

Now focus on your red highlight. My brother's wife falls in this category. WE can assume that OP's wife also falls in this category.

Is it FAIR to judge OP's wife [negatively on a consistent basis] in view of what she is going through at this point in time in her life? Even OP have felt compelled to defend his wife in the face of all manner of negativity directed towards her in this thread.

People should strive to be fair and impartial in their judgement while assessing a "relationship dynamic." Misunderstandings can make matters worse.

I have pinpointed mistakes of both OP (and his wife) in my posts in this thread. Ask him.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

If not for how long this has been going on, I’d be thinking OP’s wife’s story might be a cover, getting permission after the fact for already being pregnant. But three months would be a long time to run that ruse.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> OK.
> 
> Now focus on your red highlight. My brother's wife falls in this category. WE can assume that OP's wife also falls in this category.


Well assuming such things in the face of the OP's wife's actual actions is silly.

Since as it turns out despite your following claim.



LeGenDary_Man said:


> A woman is unlikely to be intimate with a man in a significant conflict situation.


The OP's wife is quite willing to be share really good sex with him, while they're in a significant conflict situation.

So that again demonstrates the fallacy in your claim.



CoffeeandTV said:


> To clarify, we’ve had sex a few times during the past 3 months. The last time was a couple of weeks ago.





CoffeeandTV said:


> Well we had sex this morning.





CoffeeandTV said:


> The sex was really good.


All while the OP's wife has admitted that she was withholding sex manipulatively.



CoffeeandTV said:


> So sex was the best way she could think to show how serious she was.


That said I was simply addressing the fact that your claim was wrong.

On the other hand if you instead wrote the following with the appropriate clarifying caveat: *Some* woman are unlikely to be intimate with a man in a significant conflict situation. instead of "A woman is unlikely to be intimate with a man in a significant conflict situation." Plus hadn't gone further with @DownByTheRiver on this, I wouldn't have had any issue with your claim.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Personal said:


> Well assuming such things in the face of the OP's wife's actual actions is silly.
> 
> Since as it turns out despite your following claim.
> 
> ...


Please stop the thread jack. Open another thread to discuss this. Op is past the sexless and in to new issues


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> Please stop the thread jack. Open another thread to discuss this. Op is past the sexless and in to new issues


Mostly correct, but after my behavior today I may be looking at no sex again.

I thoroughly and genuinely apologized to her. I admitted that this has stressed me out and I’m the one who started acting out of character and am sorry that I asked her to take a test and that she feels I don’t trust her and want to get pleasure out of seeing a negative test that’ll be like rubbing salt in the wound for her. I explained that I trust her and that I think we should just take the unopened test and throw it away. She agreed to that. I asked that she please see her doctor because I am concerned about what could be causing random vomiting. She said she will call tomorrow. I asked for her forgiveness for being a jerk. She apologized for what she has done. I knew they even after that it’s still take some more work since she was obviously still upset with me but she came out of her room and agreed to come to bed.

Later after we turned off the lights I eventually heard the unmistakable sounds of her trying to silently cry and sniffle and the bed shaking as she sobbed. I ask her if she’s crying and she says no. I tell her I know she is, what specific thing is she crying about. She wailed “You don’t want a baby with me. My husband of 25 years doesn’t want a baby with me! I’m in pain!” Phew so what do you even say to that? I held her until she sobbed herself to sleep. Now I’m lying here wide awake guessing I probably won’t get much sleep tonight at all.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> Please stop the thread jack. Open another thread to discuss this. Op is past the sexless and in to new issues


That's ridiculous. That is in fact the subject of this thread.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> Please stop the thread jack. Open another thread to discuss this. Op is past the sexless and in to new issues


Calling something a thread jack, when it isn't a thread jack doesn't make it one.

Keep up.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Mostly correct, but after my behavior today *I may be looking at no sex again*.


Given the following as quoted below, hopefully.



> Later after we turned off the lights I eventually heard the unmistakable sounds of her trying to silently cry and sniffle and the bed shaking as she sobbed. I ask her if she’s crying and she says no. I tell her I know she is, what specific thing is she crying about. She wailed “You don’t want a baby with me. My husband of 25 years doesn’t want a baby with me! I’m in pain!”


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

At the end of the day @CoffeeandTV while ever you humour your wife's tantrums and manipulation, while not putting an end to this nonsense. Your wife isn't going to let this go.

Good luck, 'cause you seem to really need it.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I think you are bowing down to her bad behavior and her trying to make you feel guilty for feeling the way you feel.

I’m shocked at anyone who apologizes for feeling the way they feel.

It’s tragic the way she is treating you and manipulating you.

The more you describe - the more it’s evident this isn’t a healthy or balanced relationship.


----------



## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Personal said:


> Well assuming such things in the face of the OP's wife's actual actions is silly.
> 
> Since as it turns out despite your following claim.
> 
> ...


Yes, this couple had sex *but* at a much lower frequency in past 3 months. OP's wife also told him WHY she refused some of his sexual advances in past 3 months. Her refusal was in response to OP dismissing her feelings in past 3 months.

*CAUSE = EFFECT* (Important consideration)

OP's wife is being direct and upfront with him the whole time.

Whereas:

_"*Manipulation* is the practice of using indirect tactics to control behavior, emotions, and relationships." _









Manipulation - GoodTherapy.org Therapy Blog


Manipulation is the practice of using indirect tactics to control behavior, emotions, and relationships. What Is Manipulation? Most people engage in periodic manipulation. For example, telling an acquaintance you feel “fine” when you are actually depressed is, technically, a form of manipulation...




www.goodtherapy.org





I think a licensed therapist is better suited to determine who is being manipulative in this 'relationship dynamic' after having the opportunity to talk to both OP and his wife in person. Should this happen.

Your take is "subjective."



Personal said:


> That said I was simply addressing the fact that your claim was wrong.
> 
> On the other hand if you instead wrote the following with the appropriate clarifying caveat: *Some* woman are unlikely to be intimate with a man in a significant conflict situation. instead of "A woman is unlikely to be intimate with a man in a significant conflict situation." Plus hadn't gone further with @DownByTheRiver on this, I wouldn't have had any issue with your claim.


Are you sure? My statement starts with: "*A* woman* is* unlikely...."

Did I mention "*All* woman *are* unlikely...." ???

No, you haven't proven my statement wrong. You have misread it.

Intentions can be misread.
Situations can be misread.
Statements can be misread.

One of the points I am trying to make here.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Has she done the test yet?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Has she done the test yet?


He apologized and told her to forget the test and throw it away. Which she did.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> He apologized and told her to forget the test and throw it away. Which she did.


Ah, I missed that... I confess I've started to skim some endless posts...  And I guess he will find out at some point...


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Ah, I missed that... I confess I've started to skim some endless posts...  And I guess he will find out at some point...


Yes, babies have a way of advertising their presence. If they are present.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> Yes, babies have a way of advertising their presence. If they are present.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She wailed “You don’t want a baby with me. My husband of 25 years doesn’t want a baby with me! I’m in pain!” Phew so what do you even say to that? I held her until she sobbed herself to sleep. Now I’m lying here wide awake guessing I probably won’t get much sleep tonight at all.


Would you feel worse if you just capitulate? You are beating yourself bloody calling yourself names now because you didn't want to father another child. Well you don't get what you want. Isn't that obvious by now? You are going on 4 months of this show and do you feel better or worse for it? As I have said before. If you know in your heart you will capitulate, how about just getting it over with?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Looks like baby or divorce to me. Since divorce has been excluded a priori...


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Mostly correct, but after my behavior today I may be looking at no sex again.
> 
> I thoroughly and genuinely apologized to her. I admitted that this has stressed me out and I’m the one who started acting out of character and am sorry that I asked her to take a test and that she feels I don’t trust her and want to get pleasure out of seeing a negative test that’ll be like rubbing salt in the wound for her. I explained that I trust her and that I think we should just take the unopened test and throw it away. She agreed to that. I asked that she please see her doctor because I am concerned about what could be causing random vomiting. She said she will call tomorrow. I asked for her forgiveness for being a jerk. She apologized for what she has done. I knew they even after that it’s still take some more work since she was obviously still upset with me but she came out of her room and agreed to come to bed.
> 
> Later after we turned off the lights I eventually heard the unmistakable sounds of her trying to silently cry and sniffle and the bed shaking as she sobbed. I ask her if she’s crying and she says no. I tell her I know she is, what specific thing is she crying about. She wailed “You don’t want a baby with me. My husband of 25 years doesn’t want a baby with me! I’m in pain!” Phew so what do you even say to that? I held her until she sobbed herself to sleep. Now I’m lying here wide awake guessing I probably won’t get much sleep tonight at all.


Actually holding her and letting her cry was good. You don’t want a baby she does. So you let her express her feelings without changing your position. If she truly wants a baby and she can’t have one there’s going to be a sense of grief as she realizes she won’t get one. It’s ok for her to cry.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Anastasia6 said:


> Actually holding her and letting her cry was good. You don’t want a baby she dies. So you let her express her feelings without changing your position. If she truly wants a baby and she can’t have one there’s going to be a sense of grief as she realizes she won’t get one. It’s ok for her to cry.


She will have the baby...


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> Family friend was feeling good, went back to work couple days later. He was on his D7 Cat dozer for 8-10 hrs. Sack swelled up like a dang grapefruit. Put him on his back for 2 weeks.


I'd have to say that was due to extreme lack of good judgment thinking it's reasonable to so soon be jostling things for 8 hours on a bulldozer.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Mostly correct, but after my behavior today I may be looking at no sex again.
> 
> I thoroughly and genuinely apologized to her. I admitted that this has stressed me out and I’m the one who started acting out of character and am sorry that I asked her to take a test and that she feels I don’t trust her and want to get pleasure out of seeing a negative test that’ll be like rubbing salt in the wound for her. I explained that I trust her and that I think we should just take the unopened test and throw it away. She agreed to that. I asked that she please see her doctor because I am concerned about what could be causing random vomiting. She said she will call tomorrow. I asked for her forgiveness for being a jerk. She apologized for what she has done. I knew they even after that it’s still take some more work since she was obviously still upset with me but she came out of her room and agreed to come to bed.
> 
> Later after we turned off the lights I eventually heard the unmistakable sounds of her trying to silently cry and sniffle and the bed shaking as she sobbed. I ask her if she’s crying and she says no. I tell her I know she is, what specific thing is she crying about. She wailed “You don’t want a baby with me. My husband of 25 years doesn’t want a baby with me! I’m in pain!” Phew so what do you even say to that? I held her until she sobbed herself to sleep. Now I’m lying here wide awake guessing I probably won’t get much sleep tonight at all.


Sucker. Letting this drag on and on is going to create a larger and larger pile of grief. 

Let no be no.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)




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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Her husband who is in his 40s doesn't want another child, in his 40s, who already has a grown child with her, and a grandchild on the way, with her. 

And there's nothing in the world wrong with that. 

She has no respect for you, or your thoughts about this. 

Just because she's female doesn't make her feelings on this more valid. You are acting like it does, though.

Imagine if YOU were wailing in bed that living with you isn't good enough for her and that your wife of 25 years doesn't care that you have no desire to sign up for 18 to 22 more years of child rearing at your age and you want to enjoy life without such constraints...after ALREADY raising a child with her and a grandchild on the way!!!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Her husband who is in his 40s doesn't want another child, in his 40s, who already has a grown child with her, and a grandchild on the way, with her.
> 
> And there's nothing in the world wrong with that.
> 
> ...


A woman full of hormones doesn't care about all of that...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Your wife acts crazy about wanting a baby.
She’s throwing up every day for no aiiarent reason.
You ask for a pregnancy test.

In what world is this an unreasonable request??????????

You are taking some legendarily bad advise because you are scared to death your wife will cut you off from sex. She could get up in the middle if the supper table and take a crap and you’d wonder if you should dare hurt her feelings by telling her that her poo stinks.

The advice here is crazy. Lunacy.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> A woman full of hormones doesn't care about all of that...


Not a reason to automatically agree. Just not.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CountryMike said:


> Not a reason to automatically agree. Just not.


I wasn’t saying that ☺


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> Your wife acts crazy about wanting a baby.
> She’s throwing up every day for no aiiarent reason.
> You ask for a pregnancy test.
> 
> ...


It’s not about being scared she’ll cut me off from sex, although I don’t want that to happen again.

I hate seeing her this upset and knowing I am the cause.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Her husband who is in his 40s doesn't want another child, in his 40s, who already has a grown child with her, and a grandchild on the way, with her.
> 
> And there's nothing in the world wrong with that.
> 
> ...


Yes, but ....sex.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> A woman full of hormones doesn't care about all of that...


Most do. Most don't think with their hormones.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> It’s not about being scared she’ll cut me off from sex, although I don’t want that to happen again.
> 
> I hate seeing her this upset and knowing I am the cause.


She's the cause. Boy, she has really got you snowed.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Most do. Most don't think with their hormones.


I'm not a woman, so I believe you...


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

She could have handed you some peace of mind either way by just taking the test. But she didn’t.
And then you - again - rewarded her bad behavior. The pattern works in her favor. Stop apologizing - the only thing you’ve done wrong is to give in to her while she being selfish and self centered.

If you don’t want a baby - she is disrespecting you by not taking your answer at face value.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She's the cause. Boy, she has really got you snowed.


In fairness, he is also reading posts telling him all of the mistakes he has made and continues making. He is kinda getting knocked around by punches from multiple directions, not the least of which are from his wife.


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## High and dry (6 mo ago)

Up front, I haven’t read this whole thread. I just read the first page or two and the last few responses from CoffeeandTV.

You are going to cave in to your wife. It’s very obvious based on things you’ve said over the last few pages alone. I don’t know what I missed but I don’t think it matters. No real faulting you here from me because I know how your wife wanting a baby and being overly emotional about it can get to some of us.

My wife and I have two kids and she’s desperate for a 3rd. The first two pregnancies when she was several years younger were very smooth. She’s 37 now. We’ve been trying for a 3rd baby for 3 years and she’s had 6 miscarriages during that time. She’s had several tests done and I’ve even spent a few sessions in a little room with a plastic cup, but they can’t figure out what’s wrong. Even so, they often can detect problems before you go through all of this misery. Definitely get checked out before you start trying for this new baby, which you will be trying for mark my words. If they do detect something at least you’ll be prepared and maybe, although doubtful, it’ll make her change her mind depending on what is possibly found.

I also suggest putting some sort of imposed limit on how long you’ll try and to what lengths you’ll go. Agree beforehand. With the way your wife seems to be acting right now, an agreement might mean nothing to her but at least you’ll be able to fall back on it and hopefully feel less guilty if after say 6 months or a year of trying to conceive naturally it doesn’t happen and you’re ready to stop. What happens if she miscarries? How many of those will you endure? Will your resort to fertility treatments, IVF? Where is YOUR line? Establish that before you get started and STICK TO IT. If you don’t, this could go on for years and could ruin your marriage far worse than the presence of another child itself would.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

OP, you clearly care a lot about your wife, and that is great. Whether or not you have another child is up to you. That said, there is no doubt that your wife has a pattern of manipulative behavior... witholding sex, sudden BJ to make you happy, pouting and isolating herself when you ask why she is sick.... maybe this is new... but you can't allow yourself to be controlled by that sort of behavior... she will only do it more.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

@CoffeeandTV , here is some advice from a man @High and dry walking your road. He has a stubborn wife as well, but on a different subject.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@CoffeeandTV where do you live? I have some potential advice but need your rough (not detailed!) location in order to make sure it is relevant to you and your situation.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

CoffeeandTV said:


> It’s not about being scared she’ll cut me off from sex, although I don’t want that to happen again.
> 
> I hate seeing her this upset and knowing I am the cause.


You are not the cause. She has done this to herself with a series of choices. Yes, you could "fix" this but it would be a bandaid. It would do nothing to fix the underlying issues. So is that really a fix? 

Right now you say no IVF, but you came here saying no baby and now that's clearly changing and not a hard line. You won't be able to stick to "no fertility treatments" either, and that's a road that absolutely ****ing sucks and can destroy your marriage. And if it doesn't work, "it wasn't meant to be" is not so easy. Then what if she wants to adopt a baby? Do embryo adoption? The line will keep moving.


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## High and dry (6 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> @CoffeeandTV , here is some advice from a man @High and dry walking your road. He has a stubborn wife as well, but on a different subject.


My wife and I also shared sex on average of 4-5 times a week. Then this multi-year quest for a 3rd baby has just totally changed everything. We’re now averaging about 2-3 times a week which isn’t horrible compared to the statistics out there but it’s not enough for me. She’s essentially developed an addiction to masturbating to porn, so she’ll sometimes turn me down because she’s already taken care of herself multiple times that day. At the same time she feels a lot of shame about the behavior and will not talk to anyone about it, will not go to any sort of counseling with me, nothing. I don’t know what connection the porn and masturbation might have to our fertility struggles but she never watched porn and was too shy to even say the word “masturbate” before all of this happened, so something changed.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> Your wife acts crazy about wanting a baby.
> She’s throwing up every day for no aiiarent reason.
> You ask for a pregnancy test.
> 
> ...




Legendarily good advice: OP should continue to dismiss his wife and her feelings. OP should not consider having heart-to-heart conversations with her about how she feels. It is OK for OP to tell his wife that she can have a baby with another man if this is what she wants. It is also OK for OP to mistrust his wife because she is throwing up even though she is on birth control; nevermind taking her to a doctor because professional input is not important. The wife should have sex with OP whenever he commands it though. She is a child and a manipulator for how she feels and have coped with her situation while wanting to have a baby at 40 because OP happen to disagree with her. OP's word is the law.

OR following makes better sense:



CoffeeandTV said:


> It’s not about being scared she’ll cut me off from sex, although I don’t want that to happen again.
> 
> I hate seeing her this upset and knowing I am the cause.


Credit to you for being sensible in your posts and how you choose to cover for your wife in the face of negativity directed towards her in this thread.

Well, if I am one of those offering legendarily bad advice in this thread then I shall desist.

Best wishes.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> In fairness, he is also reading posts telling him all of the mistakes he has made and continues making. He is kinda getting knocked around by punches from multiple directions, not the least of which are from his wife.


There is a majority opinion here, but he has chosen to listen to the one that he wants to believe. Nothing to be done about that. If that's how it is, it's inevitable anyway. He has always given in to her and done everything for her anyway, so he's just looking to justify giving in on something this important and ignore her mental status and desperate for any excuse to do it where he won't feel like a fool later who contributed to causing a bigger problem.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Beach123 said:


> She could have handed you some peace of mind either way by just taking the test. But she didn’t.
> And then you - again - rewarded her bad behavior. The pattern works in her favor. Stop apologizing - the only thing you’ve done wrong is to give in to her while she being selfish and self centered.
> 
> If you don’t want a baby - she is disrespecting you by not taking your answer at face value.


She has some plan in mind that that would potentially disrupt. There is literally no reason why a woman who has thrown up three random times in a week with no explanation wouldn't want to take a pregnancy test. People don't just throw up unless they're pregnant or bulimic when they have no other symptoms. I can't remember the last time I threw up, but it was probably sometimes in the 1980s.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> It’s not about being scared she’ll cut me off from sex, although I don’t want that to happen again.
> 
> I hate seeing her this upset and knowing I am the cause.


That’s crazy too. What have you done that is deserving of upsetting her?
You don’t want a baby in your 40’s. That’s not unreasonable, she us being unreasonable because she’s had 24 years to get pregnant again.

She’s angry AGAIN. Don’t you see the pattern? Anything you do that’s anti- her having a baby— you’re gonna get fried by her. (No sex abd silent treatment).

as long as you keep playing her game, you’re gonna lose no matter how hard you try to be all sweet abd lovey dovey.

she’s been claiming she wants a baby to the extent of cutting you off and showing you applications for sworn donors. Now she’s throwing up daily for no reason and you can’t even muster the resolve to get her to take a pregnancy test?

Who leads your family? Hint: it’s not you.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Legendarily good advice: OP should continue to dismiss his wife and her feelings. OP should not consider having heart-to-heart conversations with her about how she feels. It is OK for OP to tell his wife that she can have a baby with another man if this is what she wants. It is also OK for OP to mistrust his wife because she is throwing up even though she is on birth control; nevermind taking her to a doctor because professional input is not important. The wife should have sex with OP whenever he commands it though. She is a child and a manipulator for how she feels and have coped with her situation while wanting to have a baby at 40 because OP happen to disagree with her. OP's word is the law.
> 
> OR following makes better sense:
> 
> ...


Dude, he hasn't dismissed her feelings. SHE has dismissed HIS feelings entirely and also gaslighted him into saying it's all his fault. What nonsense.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Legendarily good advice: OP should continue to dismiss his wife and her feelings. OP should not consider having heart-to-heart conversations with her about how she feels. It is OK for OP to tell his wife that she can have a baby with another man if this is what she wants. It is also OK for OP to mistrust his wife because she is throwing up even though she is on birth control; nevermind taking her to a doctor because professional input is not important. The wife should have sex with OP whenever he commands it though. She is a child and a manipulator for how she feels and have coped with her situation while wanting to have a baby at 40 because OP happen to disagree with her. OP's word is the law.
> 
> OR following makes better sense:
> 
> ...


There’s not been a single “heart to heart conversation here”. His wife made up her mind before ever discussing it with her husband. Her behavior is hugely erratic, going from 3 months of sex, to sex and bj’s in the middle of the day, to no sex again.
Anything he says—-in one ear and out the other. She has a goal. He can get in board or feel her wrath. Tell me I’m wrong?

There can be ZERO heart to heart discussions until the wife has stopped manipulating him, emotionally abusing him, and acting crazy.

you ignore that she’s throwing up every day, had already decided she wanted a baby months ago which OP admits she determined in advance without his input. Now he wants a pregnancy test and that’s a murder offense?
SHE should want one, and only doesn’t fit her own reasons.

you make everything she does that is manipulative, abusive, and unreasonable ALL about Coffee. That’s nonsense. She’s CHOOSING to be offended, act out, and stir up drama in the man’s life.

And if he listens to your bizarre advice, the drama will continue.

INE thing is for sure, OP is going to do whatever it takes to make her happy—- and I don’t think she ever will be happy. Teaching your life partner that it’s ok to abuse you when you disagree on something, especially when she is clearly in the wrong, is not the way to go.

Ots one thing to have a “heart to heart” and ASK him to have a baby with her—- it’s completely another thing to railroad him, which is exactly what she’s doing.

We differ in opinion on this. I respect others opinions, but I find yours oblivious to the wrong that the wife is continuously dishing out.

SHE has started and is continuing this nonsense, and it all began with her son having a baby.
most parents look forward to that first grand baby. Why isn’t this woman? Therein lies the problem. I sense pathology.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

She has an appointment scheduled with her physician. She asked if they’ll prove she’s healthy and clear her will I consider it then. She’s now usingnsex as a bargaining, saying and I quote “You can f— me until I can’t walk straight, just put a baby inside me. I promise to suck your d— every day for the rest of your life?”

I told her no, just go to the doctor and make sure she’s not sick and we’ll go from there. She says he’s going to ask them to check her hormone levels and look at anything else they can test related to fertility while she’s there. Fine go ahead and do that. I can’t stop you anyway.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Dude, he hasn't dismissed her feelings. SHE has dismissed HIS feelings entirely and also gaslighted him into saying it's all his fault. What nonsense.


He has dismissed her feelings, and he's admitted it. They can both be in the wrong.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She has some plan in mind that that would potentially disrupt. There is literally no reason why a woman who has thrown up three random times in a week with no explanation wouldn't want to take a pregnancy test. People don't just throw up unless they're pregnant or bulimic when they have no other symptoms. I can't remember the last time I threw up, but it was probably sometimes in the 1980s.


What plan could she have that would be related to her not taking a pregnancy test? What would taking a pregnancy test disrupt? She’s upset that by asking her to take a test I was essentially saying I didn’t trust her.

I saw the blood in her underwear the other day. She was drinking. Logic says she’s not pregnant. Why would she hide it for months and continue to beg for a baby? I think she would have just given up by now and admitted she’s been pregnant this whole time and I better just deal with it. It’s not as if she could have gotten pregnant 3 months ago and is going to attempt to get me to agree to knock her up today and pretend she wasn’t pregnant this whole time. 3 months is a pretty big discrepancy.

Yes I don’t know why she didn’t just take the test last night so she could have had satisfaction of proving me wrong if nothing else. She’s going to the doctor so I’m willing to just scrap the whole test thing and move on. That’s what we did. I put it in the trash.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She has an appointment scheduled with her physician. She asked if they’ll prove she’s healthy and clear her will I consider it then. She’s now usingnsex as a bargaining, saying and I quote “You can f— me until I can’t walk straight, just put a baby inside me. I promise to suck your d— every day for the rest of your life?”
> 
> I told her no, just go to the doctor and make sure she’s not sick and we’ll go from there. She says he’s going to ask them to check her hormone levels and look at anything else they can test related to fertility while she’s there. Fine go ahead and do that. I can’t stop you anyway.


Her saying this to you, shows that's what she thinks of you, that you will do anything she wants, to get ****ed and sucked by her. 

If a spouse said something of the equivalent to me, whether it was sex or something else he thought drove me, I would feel revulsion. Shuddering revulsion.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Her saying this to you, shows that's what she thinks of you, that you will do anything she wants, to get ****ed and sucked by her.
> 
> If a spouse said something of the equivalent to me, whether it was sex or something else he thought drove me, I would feel revulsion. Shuddering revulsion.


I’m not going to deny that you’re right. Believe it or not, I didn’t get an instant hard on at the thought of what she said. I laughed at her. So she huffed and made her doctors appointment and told me she’s getting fertility testing done. Ok.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> What plan could she have that would be related to her not taking a pregnancy test? What would taking a pregnancy test disrupt? She’s upset that by asking her to take a test I was essentially saying I didn’t trust her.
> 
> I saw the blood in her underwear the other day. She was drinking. Logic says she’s not pregnant. Why would she hide it for months and continue to beg for a baby? I think she would have just given up by now and admitted she’s been pregnant this whole time and I better just deal with it. It’s not as if she could have gotten pregnant 3 months ago and is going to attempt to get me to agree to knock her up today and pretend she wasn’t pregnant this whole time. 3 months is a pretty big discrepancy.
> 
> Yes I don’t know why she didn’t just take the test last night so she could have had satisfaction of proving me wrong if nothing else. She’s going to the doctor so I’m willing to just scrap the whole test thing and move on. That’s what we did. I put it in the trash.


Why didn't you ask her, Why SHOULD I trust you after how you've been acting? She is not cooperating with you at all. She is playing her game, not yours. Didn't you say she said why would she do it just so you could laugh at her for not being pregnant? Did that seriously make any sense to you? I'm not saying this is the case, but she knows you'd be pissed if she had gone off birth control and tried to trap you in to having this baby. So if she was pregnant, she'd rather that wasn't official until you give in and consent. Then maybe she could pass it off as premature if the gap was anything suspicious or just hope you don't do the math. 

I hope she's not. I'm glad there was blood. That's encouraging. But you're asking me to explain why someone who clearly is not right mentally at the moment would do this or that. People with disorders don't always do things that make sense. Did it occur to you that she may not take a pregnancy test at the doctor's but just go get a routine exam or hormone test and then tell you whatever she wants you to believe? You need to be there for the report straight from the doctor, because a report from her isn't anything you can rely on, that's for sure. If it were me, I'd call his office and leave him a private note to be read before she gets there that she isn't acting right mentally either and that he might considering referring her to a psychologist. He may ignore it, but he may at least pay more attention to how she's acting. He won't talk to you about it though without a written consent from her.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m not going to deny that you’re right. Believe it or not, I didn’t get an instant hard on at the thought of what she said. I laughed at her. So she huffed and made her doctors appointment and told me she’s getting fertility testing done. Ok.


You have no pride. Why would a wife demeaning you like that, knowing she can control you with sex, make you have a hard-on OR laugh? Good grief. And earlier you were protesting because these inferences were akin to calling her a prostitute.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You have no pride. Why would a wife demeaning you like that, knowing she can control you with sex, make you have a hard-on OR laugh? Good grief. And earlier you were protesting because these inferences were akin to calling her a prostitute.


She's literally trading sex for her "way." It is clearly transactional. I am just saying.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You have no pride. Why would a wife demeaning you like that, knowing she can control you with sex, make you have a hard-on OR laugh? Good grief. And earlier you were protesting because these inferences were akin to calling her a prostitute.


I didn’t get turned on by it at all. I laughed because she’s just being so ridiculous now. Last night she really had me feeling sorry for her. Today I am just feeling very annoyed.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Why is she even getting fertility testing done?

Cha ching $$$$ I wonder if your insurance covers that.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> She's literally trading sex for her "way." It is clearly transactional. I am just saying.


I can admit I’ve let her get away with that sometimes but for minor things where I would have probably agreed anyway. I’m talking about really minor things, like when she wanted to paint our bedroom pink and I wanted a different color. I agreed to let her have it her way and it was during sex that she made me say yes to her. I would have let her have her way on something like that anyway because at the end of the day the wall color of our bedroom means a heck of a lot more to her than it ever will to me.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Notice she didn’t say they would administer a pregnancy test?

She likes reasons to be mad at you. That way you get compliant.

You seem to follow her lead.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Why is she even getting fertility testing done?
> 
> Cha ching $$$$ I wonder if your insurance covers that.


I don’t think I need to tell you why. You’re pretty keen on things.

She can pay for whatever is not covered. It’s not worth arguing. I can’t prevent her from asking her doctors to order tests.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Look, if you don't go with her and talk to the doctor yourself, you will have NO more information after she goes than you do now. In fact, she will just lie and tell you what it takes to get you to give in. So you insist on being there in the next room after her examination so at least you know. My guess is she is physically healthy anyway because of all you've told us. The gyn will only see if that part is healthy. She could use a total blood workup if she hasn't had one this year by a family doctor. And most of all, she needs to see a psychologist.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I didn’t get turned on by it at all. I laughed because she’s just being so ridiculous now. Last night she really had me feeling sorry for her. Today I am just feeling very annoyed.


If you succumb to a fertility test, you have to know you're STILL feeding the animal. Hard times will get exponentially worse.

Why in the hell can't you just say no? Are you that whipped?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

CountryMike said:


> If you succumb to a fertility test, you have to know you're STILL feeding the animal. Hard times will get exponentially worse.
> 
> Why in the hell can't you just say no? Are you that whipped?


She already told me that she can order me an at home fertility kit for men, that way I don’t have to go make a deposit at a doctor’s office. Thanks honey, but no thanks.

Honestly I’ve gotten myself into a mental space where I have been trying to think of how having another kid might be enjoyable. I think she wants one way more than I don’t want one. I think she’s at 200% yes and I’m at 97% no or was for the last few days. Yeah I have a hard time not giving her everything that she wants and part of me wants to be able to give this to her. Today I’m feeling an absolute no about it though. I feel pretty disgusted about everything today.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She already told me that she can order me an at home fertility kit for men, that way I don’t have to go make a deposit at a doctor’s office. Thanks honey, but no thanks.
> 
> Honestly I’ve gotten myself into a mental space where I have been trying to think of how having another kid might be enjoyable. I think she wants one way more than I don’t want one. I think she’s at 200% yes and I’m at 97% no or was for the last few days. Yeah I have a hard time not giving her everything that she wants and part of me wants to be able to give this to her. Today I’m feeling an absolute no about it though. I feel pretty disgusted about everything today.


Well go with what floats your boat. I'm well intentionally stating every dang possible option, pro, con, advice tidbit has now been shared with you from what I've read. EVERY option.

Comments are getting repetitive and circular.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She’s had a lifetime of getting her way so why would she think for a moment that your agreeing to a late-life baby was a problem since history tells her you’ll eventually give in. She may or may not find getting pregnant easy at this point but she’s obviously going to try so buckle up. Hopefully, all will go well.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> It’s not about being scared she’ll cut me off from sex, although I don’t want that to happen again.
> 
> I hate seeing her this upset and knowing I am the cause.


Get it out of your head, you are not the cause. It is fact you are not asking how high when she says jump! Her waiting 24 yrs to bring it up again is the cause. If she wanted another child, she damn well should have brought it up 15-20 yrs ago. It is on her that it was not a priority during the prime child rearing years.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> It’s not about being scared she’ll cut me off from sex, although I don’t want that to happen again.
> 
> I hate seeing her this upset and knowing I am the cause.


You ain't the cause. Do you think you're omniscient and all powerful? A little self centered are we?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I have a sneaky feeling that she figured if you won’t agree to have the baby - she will get a sperm donation… she seems like she doesn’t care how you feel - as long as she gets what she wants.

Be ready… that baby may not end up being yours genetically.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She already told me that she can order me an at home fertility kit for men, that way I don’t have to go make a deposit at a doctor’s office. Thanks honey, but no thanks.
> 
> Honestly I’ve gotten myself into a mental space where I have been trying to think of how having another kid might be enjoyable. I think she wants one way more than I don’t want one. I think she’s at 200% yes and I’m at 97% no or was for the last few days. Yeah I have a hard time not giving her everything that she wants and part of me wants to be able to give this to her. Today I’m feeling an absolute no about it though. I feel pretty disgusted about everything today.


Still the same answer. Why can't no just be no, and life goes on. It will.


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## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

This


CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m not going to deny that you’re right. Believe it or not, I didn’t get an instant hard on at the thought of what she said. I laughed at her. So she huffed and made her doctors appointment and told me she’s getting fertility testing done. Ok.


Reading this conversation exchange between you and your wife just makes me sad. Obviously she has a right to her feelings but boy is she acting like a big fat baby about this. If I where you I’d seriously consider getting away for a day of two if you can swing it. Clear your mind. You’ve got to find a way to bring your wife back to the real world. How does she think you will ever look at her the same after saying those kinds of things. I realize that’s not what’s she’s thinking about.
Have you considered talking to her mom and asking her to speak with her again? Not asking mil to tell her she’s crazy to want a baby at her age but just talk this out alittle bit? Maybe She can get her to realize how bad her behavior is over this?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CountryMike said:


> Why can't no just be no


Because to take a firm stance, the one taking that stance has to be willing to back it up 100%. Otherwise, what is the point? It would just be posturing. If he "just says no" and she "just says yes" an irresistible force meets an immovable object, only the one willing to lose all can possibly "win". . Except in this case they both lose. @CoffeeandTV doesn't want to lose his wife, no matter what else happens. His wife is willing to do whatever it takes to have her way.

If he "just says no" he loses her. He may lose her anyway ( even though she gets her way ) down the road no matter what, but if she doesn't get her way in this he loses her right now for sure. And she can have a baby with or without him if that is what she wants more than anything else in the world. He can only control his own actions, and he can only do what he can stand the consequences of.

None of us on the internet have any "skin in the game". This is his life, and he is faced with impossible choices. Yes his wife is forcing these choices on him. What can he do about that? No matter what decision he makes he is screwed. No choice is ideal for him. He can only choose the *least bad* from HIS perspective. A lot of us make "least bad" decisions when faced with multiple distasteful options.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> What is? My wife’s mental state? Or are you saying I’m making it all up for ****s and giggles?
> 
> What’s so off kilter here? A woman who actually enjoys having sex with her husband? The fact that I felt the need to defend her after people compared her giving me compliments and a blowjob to prostituting herself?


You dont need to defend her, you clearly have a strong loving marriage and I am sure you will get through this difficult period. In the end you know her best not anyone here.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Because to take a firm stance, the one taking that stance has to be willing to back it up 100%. Otherwise, what is the point? It would just be posturing. If he "just says no" and she "just says yes" an irresistible force meets an immovable object, only the one willing to lose all can possibly "win". . Except in this case they both lose. @CoffeeandTV doesn't want to lose his wife, no matter what else happens. His wife is willing to do whatever it takes to have her way.
> 
> If he "just says no" he loses her. He may lose her anyway ( even though she gets her way ) down the road no matter what, but if she doesn't get her way in this he loses her right now for sure. And she can have a baby with or without him if that is what she wants more than anything else in the world. He can only control his own actions, and he can only do what he can stand the consequences of.
> 
> None of us on the internet have any "skin in the game". This is his life, and he is faced with impossible choices. Yes his wife is forcing these choices on him. What can he do about that? No matter what decision he makes he is screwed. No choice is ideal for him. He can only choose the *least bad* from HIS perspective. A lot of us make "least bad" decisions when faced with multiple distasteful options.


Ok. We all know that. Be willing to back it up. That's expected. A given.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She has an appointment scheduled with her physician. She asked if they’ll prove she’s healthy and clear her will I consider it then. She’s now usingnsex as a bargaining, saying and I quote “You can f— me until I can’t walk straight, just put a baby inside me. I promise to suck your d— every day for the rest of your life?”
> 
> I told her no, just go to the doctor and make sure she’s not sick and we’ll go from there. She says he’s going to ask them to check her hormone levels and look at anything else they can test related to fertility while she’s there. Fine go ahead and do that. I can’t stop you anyway.



Deleted.

Sorry my comments were too harsh.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I totally disagree with associating anything about this as prostitution. She’s his wife, ha been for many years. The sex thing is all about telling him what he wants to hear to get him on board. No matter what, I’m sure OP knows if she doesn’t want sex she’s not going to have sex and he doesn’t want it anyway if she doesn’t want to do it.

She’s still steamrolling him.
He wants her to go get checked out mentally and she’s just going to see how long the doctor thinks it will take to get her knocked up.
She’s in a hurry.

Nothjng OP has said to her means squat. She’s going to get pregnant and he can be in or out. I too agree that she’s crazy enough to get a donor the way she’s acting.

She’s made it clear she is all engines ahead fill throttle. And if Coffee balks, she will quickly put him in his place. She has done so to this point. I mean, he thinks she’s going to the doctor to kinda see if her cheese has slid off her cracker, and she’s going to get fertility tested snd wants HIM to get tested.
Does that sounds like a woman who is even considering that he might not be agreescke to a baby?

Might as well start picking out the crib.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Even if she is healthy its a fact that women are usually far less fertile at her age than they are in their 20'3 or 30's. So she may not get pregnant whatever is decided. Also being that even if she did get pregnant it usually takes some time at any age so she could be a couple of years on from now.
Many women today do have babies in their 40's but its usually must harder to conceive.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

He could agree and hope she can't conceive due to age, but if his luck is anything like mine she',ll be knocked up on the first try. 😣😅


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

She is clearly not right in the head. 

Whether it’s terrible immaturity and brattiness that she didn’t immediately get what she wanted and was told no for the first time in her life or whether it’s some kind of serious hormonal disturbance with peri menopause or the beginning of some kind emotional or mental disorder or the early manifestations of a brain tumor or some physiological issue I don’t know. 

But regardless of cause, she’s clearly irrational and behaving in a manner out of character for her.

But here is my point - we do not give crazy people unreasonable things. If she were to ask for a flame thrower or a machine gun or something would you run out and get one so she wouldn’t get upset with you?

If she said she had bugs crawling under her skin and wanted to fill the bathtub for of concentrated acid to get rid of them would run out and get a bunch of jugs of acid? 

If she said the neighbor kids were demons that were putting thoughts in her head by some kind of demonic telepathy and were trying to possess her and you needed to burn their house down in the middle of the night to burn them up in their sleep, would you go fetch her a bucket of gasoline and a lighter??

Why are we still debating getting her pregnant??? 

She is clearly unbalanced and irrational and not thinking straight so why are you even considering having another child with her?

I’m beginning to think you are as nutty as she is. 

But she at least has something going on with her whether it’s hormones, mental illness, brain tumor etc that is making her nutty. 

What is YOUR excuse?? Youre afraid she’ll be upset?? You’re afraid she won’t have sex with you? Afraid she’ll leave you?? 

You’re being a scardy cat trying to appease her when you should be the sane one keeping her from harming herself and you and getting her the help she needs.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

hamadryad said:


> He could agree and hope she can't conceive due to age, but if his luck is anything like mine she',ll be knocked up on the first try. 😣😅


Well I was for all three of mine but I was in my 20's.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

She is still disrespecting you.
How do you plan to fix that part of your marriage?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> He could agree and hope she can't conceive due to age, but if his luck is anything like mine she',ll be knocked up on the first try. 😣😅


With twins?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

I cannot go home right after work today because I don’t even want to be around her right now. I was really against the idea that anything was going “wrong” with her physically or mentally but after the hysterical sobbing last night and then the stuff she pulled today I can’t take it anymore. I’ve avoided her texts today, I don’t really care.

You’re right, I’m the insane one thinking about agreeing to anything while she’s acting this way. I came dangerously close.

I decided that I really don’t think I can go through with having another baby, no matter how sane and physically fit she’s proven to be. Even if she starts acting like her normal self again I don’t think I can do it. I think it’d be ok for a while, maybe even enjoyable for the next several years, provided we had a healthy baby with no issues. But then the school years, my life being dictated by a kid’s schedule? Wanting to be sure I was as actively involved in their life and activities as I was for my first kid? Being over 60 when my kid graduated high school? Then what? Killing myself to put him through college? At the end of the day I want time to live my own life and not have to put a child #1 at all times and I don’t want to wait until I’m 65 to do it. The way I’m feeling today, I’d let her walk right now if she told me I impregnate her this week or she’s gone. It kills me to say that but I’ve already started on the next phase of what I thought was our life together.

I’m not even interested in having sex with her now, which is saying a lot.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

If you see a news story about an attractive, yet temporarily insane, dark haired 40 year old woman with bright blue eyes and a beautiful smile who murdered her husband and buried him in the backyard because he wouldn’t give her a baby, know that it’s probably my wife you’re looking at.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Not only all what you said, but I feel you'd be doing most of it, too. I mean, the way she is, if she gets exhausted, which she will, she will just expect you to do everything. 

You need to sit down and just tell her no, that you bent as far as you can bend, and it's still no and that that is no reflection on how much you love her. Then you can address her mental state after she has her prolonged snit.


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## hub49 (7 mo ago)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I cannot go home right after work today because I don’t even want to be around her right now.


If you needed another clue that you should get out of this marriage, this would be it. This woman does not seem to be mentally/emotionally there at all to be a good mother to this baby. This situation is a beast of your own creation, and unless you're willing to walk now and stand firm, everything you do is feeding the beast.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I decided that I really don’t think I can go through with having another baby, no matter how sane and physically fit she’s proven to be.


So what changed? Evidently something pretty radical happened.

You went from one ditch, across the road into the other ditch. You went from do anything to keep her and craving sex with her to you don't want to even go home after work, would be fine if she walked, and don't want sex with her at all. 

All in one day?


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> I have a sneaky feeling that she figured if you won’t agree to have the baby - she will get a sperm donation… she seems like she doesn’t care how you feel - as long as she gets what she wants.
> 
> Be ready… that baby may not end up being yours genetically.


Holy smokes that would be tragic. Vasectomy is your friend. Close friend 🙂.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> So what changed? Evidently something pretty radical happened.
> 
> You went from one ditch, across the road into the other ditch. You went from do anything to keep her and craving sex with her to you don't want to even go home after work, would be fine if she walked, and don't want sex with her at all.
> 
> All in one day?


I think it was her throwing in his face that she knows he'll do anything for sex, even something like this. I think she got too cocky and it finally made him feel insulted.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> If you see a news story about an attractive, yet temporarily insane, dark haired 40 year old woman with bright blue eyes and a beautiful smile who murdered her husband and buried him in the backyard because he wouldn’t give her a baby, know that it’s probably my wife you’re looking at.


Well, I don't think you're in actual danger since her weapon of choice is sex. And I don't think you need to blow up the marriage if she doesn't because she doesn't get her way, but I do think her mental state must be addressed soon. If you were happy all these years before her behavior changed, hopefully there is something you can do about that.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think it was her throwing in his face that she knows he'll do anything for sex, even something like this. I think she got too cocky and it finally made him feel insulted.


Some watershed event at work. He mentioned texts from her. He trying to hold down a job and she badgered him with some batch of text that pushed him off of the cliff. Yes, she got too cocky.

But he is this way now. Remains to be seen where he is tomorrow. Remember he was pretty dug in for three months. Until he wasn't.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, I don't think you're in actual danger since her weapon of choice is sex. A


Is it possible to actually be f'd to death? What a way to go!


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think it was her throwing in his face that she knows he'll do anything for sex, even something like this. I think she got too cocky and it finally made him feel insulted.


Yep. She got out over her skis. As my grandfather used to say, all cats are grey in the dark. She does nothing that any other woman can't do, what makes you valuable as a person is WHAT KIND OF PERSON YOU ARE. You don't tell someone you love that they are helpless in the face of your majestic hooha. It's rude. 😂


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Is it possible to actually be f'd to death? What a way to go!


That's not what she'll do. She'll threaten to share her cookies with someone else. We've already seen shades of it. He's still talking about how beautiful she is, I'm not sure he'll be able to withstand it. We'll see. Finally this is interesting again. Will Coffee fish his berries out of the bottom of her purse? Stay tuned for another exciting episode of "As the World Turns."

_OP, I'm totally teasing, please don't think I am really trying to be mean. I'm not. Humor keeps us all sane. I do think you need to put a stop to this, all this drama llama nonsense is silly._


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

I’ll explain more later. Heading out to meet up with some friends tonight so I won’t have to deal with her for a little while longer.

She sent me a screenshot of the fertility test kit she ordered for me today. Yep she went ahead and ordered it after I told her no. Told me maybe she’ll quit her job and become a stay at home mom this time around if we think we can afford it, then go back to work in her field part time once the kid enters school. This is somebody who absolutely loves her job and it’s a huge part of her life. She is truly going off the deep end.

Reality is that if she said she was leaving me today, as much as I dislike her right now, I’d still probably beg and plead and bargain with her to stay. I do love her. I don’t feel attracted to her in anyway at this very moment. Physically she is beautiful but her personality is another story lately. It’s the back and forth, the huge swings in her mood and behavior towards me. What’s even real anymore? Who is this person?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> Is it possible to actually be f'd to death? What a way to go!


Well people have had heart attacks and died during sex.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> It’s the back and forth, the huge swings in her mood and behavior


And she has you whipsawing back and forth too. I feel for your son and DIL. They must be wondering what in world has happened to Mom n Dad. DIL can’t be too happy that what should be her time in the spotlight she is being upstaged by her MIL antics.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Well people have had heart attacks and died during sex.


A disputed story was a Rockefeller thot he was coming with his secretary but was actually going.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’ll explain more later. Heading out to meet up with some friends tonight so I won’t have to deal with her for a little while longer.
> 
> She sent me a screenshot of the fertility test kit she ordered for me today. Yep she went ahead and ordered it after I told her no. Told me maybe she’ll quit her job and become a stay at home mom this time around if we think we can afford it, then go back to work in her field part time once the kid enters school. This is somebody who absolutely loves her job and it’s a huge part of her life. She is truly going off the deep end.
> 
> Reality is that if she said she was leaving me today, as much as I dislike her right now, I’d still probably beg and plead and bargain with her to stay. I do love her. I don’t feel attracted to her in anyway at this very moment. Physically she is beautiful but her personality is another story lately. It’s the back and forth, the huge swings in her mood and behavior towards me. What’s even real anymore? Who is this person?


well, I said many pages back she probably wants to stay home - and this is one way to justify staying home/not working.

I think she won’t respect you/ give this some sort of thought to compromise if she doesn’t actually believe you will leave her.

she certainly seems to be doing everything in her power to disrespect you and how you feel about it all.

she bought you a fertility test? 😡
Right in front of her - I would throw that thing in the trash! Just as she requested you do with the pregnancy test!

man - did she even have a pregnancy test done at the dr office today? If not - why not? She should be willing to hand you peace of mind! But she isn’t…


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> And she has you whipsawing back and forth too. I feel for your son and DIL. They must be wondering what in world has happened to Mom n Dad. DIL can’t be too happy that what should be her time in the spotlight she is being upstaged by her MIL antics.


I’m exhausted by it. Like I said, I felt terrible last night and then this morning sort of felt like the final straw.

For the most part my son and daughter-in-law know nothing about any of it, other than the fact she wants a baby. I’m not going to mention any of the sexual stuff, even to just my son, because he doesn’t want to think about his mom and dad doing those things. I don’t want him to know how his mother has been acting at all! I was starting to think today that maybe he could use a guy’s weekend away before the baby gets here and before we risk getting too close to the due date at which point he’ll obviously not want to venture far from home. I could possibly get my wife occupied with helping our daughter-in-law with some sort of baby prep. Then I thought no, I wouldn’t want to do that to my poor daughter-in-law, with the way my wife is acting right now.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

It would just trigger her more.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yep. She got out over her skis. As my grandfather used to say, all cats are grey in the dark. She does nothing that any other woman can't do, what makes you valuable as a person is WHAT KIND OF PERSON YOU ARE. You don't tell someone you love that they are helpless in the face of your majestic hooha. It's rude. 😂


That's funny! Too true.
My grandfather used to say boys, every girl thinks she has a patent on that thing, but none do.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

So instead of working, she's planning on giving you daily blow jobs. Well, as Terri on Reno 911 said, "A blow job is still a job."


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So instead of working, she's planning on giving you daily blow jobs. Well, as Terri on Reno 911 said, "A blow job is still a job."


The fact she threw that in and daily, immediately disqualified the last tiny bit of doubt having a baby would be bonkers.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So instead of working, she's planning on giving you daily blow jobs. Well, as Terri on Reno 911 said, "A blow job is still a job."


Yeah, the SAHM idea is a bridge too far IMO. Bad enuf OP gotta work harder n longer. So she can stay home? Just NO. Yep she just got too greedy.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

The fact that she thinks she can get what she wants with a simple promise of BJ’s endlessly is - honestly - insulting to the core.

her methods give women a bad name. And I am a woman! It’s disgusting how she is going about this manipulation!!! 😡🤯🤢


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I've followed most of this thread, not all, but most. This is insane. She is off her rocker.
Something very wrong. 
Op you sound like a very moral upstanding man but I think you're in for too much misery.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Hopefully OP son n DIL have no problems with their pregnancy or baby. Mom n Dad so wound up in their issues, they have no reserve to help. 

What should be happy celebration of a grandchild has been trashed by GRANDMA. Hope DIL’s mom n dad are near.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

If this woman were to have a baby, OP would be like white noise in the background, as her whole life would be about that baby. EVERYTHING!!

How sad that would also be for her son, DIL and grandchild.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Offer for her to take a break from work - but no baby since you don’t want one. That’s a compromise.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

hub49 said:


> If you needed another clue that you should get out of this marriage, this would be it. This woman does not seem to be mentally/emotionally there at all to be a good mother to this baby. This situation is a beast of your own creation, and unless you're willing to walk now and stand firm, everything you do is feeding the beast.


How sad that you think so little of marriage. I thought it was supposed to be for better or for worse.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So instead of working, she's planning on giving you daily blow jobs. Well, as Terri on Reno 911 said, "A blow job is still a job."


Especially if it’s required. It’s work, like anything else you do for money.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CountryMike said:


> That's funny! Too true.
> My grandfather used to say boys, every girl thinks she has a patent on that thing, but none do.


Yep. If sex is all that makes you special, you are not special. Goes for men and women. That’s why when a man says he’d rather not be friends with his wife, it tells me all I need to know about him.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Legendarily good advice: OP should continue to dismiss his wife and her feelings. OP should not consider having heart-to-heart conversations with her about how she feels. It is OK for OP to tell his wife that she can have a baby with another man if this is what she wants. It is also OK for OP to mistrust his wife because she is throwing up even though she is on birth control; nevermind taking her to a doctor because professional input is not important. The wife should have sex with OP whenever he commands it though. She is a child and a manipulator for how she feels and have coped with her situation while wanting to have a baby at 40 because OP happen to disagree with her. OP's word is the law.
> 
> OR following makes better sense:
> 
> ...


She should have sex whenever he 'commands' it? Really? 😳🤨


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> How sad that you think so little of marriage. I thought it was supposed to be for better or for worse.


For better or for worse presumes due diligence and reasonability.

He obviously thinks highly of her and the marriage so your assertion that he doesn’t care is completely misplaced and mistaken.

People not only do not have to cater to the unreasonable and irrational to preserve the sanctity of a marriage but they are obligated to reject the unreasonable and harmful even if it upsets the other.

In order to protect her and preserve the stability of the marriage he needs to reject this outlandishness and get her help.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> The fact that she thinks she can get what she wants with a simple promise of BJ’s endlessly is - honestly - insulting to the core.
> 
> her methods give women a bad name. And I am a woman! It’s disgusting how she is going about this manipulation!!! 😡🤯🤢


There is a word for this. And yes, it demeans us all.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Agreed. You know, I could understand if she was upset for a little while after I said no. That’d be perfectly within her rights to feel that way. It’s the way she’s reacting that’s the real problem. I’m not mad that she wants another baby. I figured it’d happen at some point, but am surprised that it took this long for the urge to hit. If she wasn’t acting so childish I might be just a bit more inclined to listen to her reasoning (not agree to it, but be more willing to at least listen to her reasons), but it’s hard to even take her seriously now. She sees it as the complete opposite - she’s trying to prove just how serious she is by withholding sex.


So let’s destroy the relationship to prove how badly she wants a baby.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Rounding back to it because I just have to...OP she actually painted your bedroom walls PINK??


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Rounding back to it because I just have to...OP she actually painted your bedroom walls PINK??


Her favorite color.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> well, I said many pages back she probably wants to stay home - and this is one way to justify staying home/not working.
> 
> I think she won’t respect you/ give this some sort of thought to compromise if she doesn’t actually believe you will leave her.
> 
> ...


Her appointment isn’t until Wednesday.

Unless she goes in and changes things, I have access to her entire electronic medical record with ability to view all test results. I went in today to verify she actually had an appointment scheduled.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Has a baby in her 40’s and quits working. how thoughtful and appreciative. 
yep, gonna be a long time coming on that retirement for the new dad. He’ll be one of those guys that keels over a week after his first retirement check hits the Mail.


----------



## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’ll explain more later. Heading out to meet up with some friends tonight so I won’t have to deal with her for a little while longer.
> 
> She sent me a screenshot of the fertility test kit she ordered for me today. Yep she went ahead and ordered it after I told her no. Told me maybe she’ll quit her job and become a stay at home mom this time around if we think we can afford it, then go back to work in her field part time once the kid enters school. This is somebody who absolutely loves her job and it’s a huge part of her life. She is truly going off the deep end.
> 
> Reality is that if she said she was leaving me today, as much as I dislike her right now, I’d still probably beg and plead and bargain with her to stay. I do love her. I don’t feel attracted to her in anyway at this very moment. Physically she is beautiful but her personality is another story lately. It’s the back and forth, the huge swings in her mood and behavior towards me. What’s even real anymore? Who is this person?


just tell her flat out that you are not doing the fertility test, that you TOLD her you would not, and yet she felt the need to order the test anyway? Ask her what her justification is for doing that since you explicitly said you would NOT take it.
Tell her that "You got pissed at me for asking for a pregnancy test when you are showing some signs with throwing up, yet you expect ME to be all smiles about something I explicitly said I wouldn't do? No way -- throw that test in the garbage like you had me do for the pregnancy test"


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Her favorite color.


I'd feel like I was trying to sleep in a Pepto Bismal bottle.....


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She does give grade A blow jobs. I can’t deny that. I would go into detail but I might be little too buzzed right now and regret what I say.
> 
> She joked about starting a MILF Only Fans account before and wanted to know if she could use my penis as a proper for blow job scenes. She says it’s her speciality and she’s right about that.


Ya, I always was considered especially gifted in this area too. But I never ever used it as a bargaining or manipulative move while married longer than you have been.

that would just be mean. Vindictive too.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I’d be asking to change the bedroom color.
You need her to start getting used to things not always going her way.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’ve recently been reading about dead bedrooms on a few sites and saw a mention of Talk About Marriage on a Reddit post and thought I’d come check this place out in case somebody here might be able to help.
> 
> I suppose you could say I’m experiencing what is the start of a dead bedroom, but it’s not really a typical “my wife just doesn’t want sex anymore” situation. She’s intentionally withholding sex now and what I thought would be a short, stubborn hold out has turned into almost 3 months of no sex.
> 
> ...





CoffeeandTV said:


> I’ve recently been reading about dead bedrooms on a few sites and saw a mention of Talk About Marriage on a Reddit post and thought I’d come check this place out in case somebody here might be able to help.
> 
> I suppose you could say I’m experiencing what is the start of a dead bedroom, but it’s not really a typical “my wife just doesn’t want sex anymore” situation. She’s intentionally withholding sex now and what I thought would be a short, stubborn hold out has turned into almost 3 months of no sex.
> 
> ...


Ok brother, no matter what anyone here has said...I HAVE BEEN DOWN THE ROAD WITH THIS. My wife conceived our one and only child and gave birth at 39 YEARS and 1 day old. I turned 42 seven months later. The big difference is....WE WANTED TO HAVE A BABY TOGETHER! I was coming to the end of my military career. We talked about this extensively and agreed she would go off any birth control. I was deployed at the time. I had never wanted to have a child if I couldn't be a part of my child's life. I felt it was unfair to both a child and the mother that I could not be there to be a father. It was a rough pregnancy, we also were sent to see geneticist about late term pregnancy issues. We found out she had rh factor. She had breakthrough bleeding at 4 months and had to have a rogam shot early as well as at 7 months to counter the rh factor. She developed gestational diabetes and preclampsia. 6 months after delivery she had to have her gallbladder removed due to damage by the baby in her womb. Fortunately she suffered little post partum depression. 
Our daughter regrettably never got to enjoy her parents during their vital years. She dealt with the constant questioning about if we were her grandparents when she started school. I turned 60 after she graduated. Only regret is not having her 10 years sooner. May have had another then. There were some big advantages to this though..we had a home for years. She never moved, till after our house burned down. But we rebuilt where the other house had been. She had the same parents all her life. I.was able to provide financial stability for her. She had a very stable, safe and deeply loved childhood growing up...yet I'll be 72 this year and doubt I'll ever live to see a grandchild. If I do I will be very old and possibly unable to interact well with the child. I will have lived in support and rearing a child almost to my second jobs retirement in a few years. My wife and I will only have 20-30 years to experience our daughter as an adult, tops. There are pros, but also many more cons to this. I am of the school of do not do this without full mutual consent. Period. It's a monumental task. Patience. I wish you both the best in this issue.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

TinyTbone said:


> Ok brother, no matter what anyone here has said...I HAVE BEEN DOWN THE ROAD WITH THIS. My wife conceived our one and only child and gave birth at 39 YEARS and 1 day old. I turned 42 seven months later. The big difference is....WE WANTED TO HAVE A BABY TOGETHER! I was coming to the end of my military career. We talked about this extensively and agreed she would go off any birth control. I was deployed at the time. I had never wanted to have a child if I couldn't be a part of my child's life. I felt it was unfair to both a child and the mother that I could not be there to be a father. It was a rough pregnancy, we also were sent to see geneticist about late term pregnancy issues. We found out she had rh factor. She had breakthrough bleeding at 4 months and had to have a rogam shot early as well as at 7 months to counter the rh factor. She developed gestational diabetes and preclampsia. 6 months after delivery she had to have her gallbladder removed due to damage by the baby in her womb. Fortunately she suffered little post partum depression.
> 
> Our daughter regrettably never got to enjoy her parents during their vital years. She dealt with the constant questioning about if we were her grandparents when she started school. I turned 60 after she graduated. Only regret is not having her 10 years sooner. May have had another then. There were some big advantages to this though..we had a home for years. She never moved, till after our house burned down. But we rebuilt where the other house had been. She had the same parents all her life. I.was able to provide financial stability for her. She had a very stable, safe and deeply loved childhood growing up...yet I'll be 72 this year and doubt I'll ever live to see a grandchild. If I do I will be very old and possibly unable to interact well with the child. I will have lived in support and rearing a child almost to my second jobs retirement in a few years. My wife and I will only have 20-30 years to experience our daughter as an adult, tops. There are pros, but also many more cons to this. I am of the school of do not do this without full mutual consent. Period. It's a monumental task. Patience. I wish you both the best in this issue.


Sorry I'll be 62 this year.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> For better or for worse presumes due diligence and reasonability.
> 
> He obviously thinks highly of her and the marriage so your assertion that he doesn’t care is completely misplaced and mistaken.
> 
> ...


I wasn't referring to the op but to the person I replied to.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She does give grade A blow jobs. I can’t deny that. I would go into detail but I might be little too buzzed right now and regret what I say.
> 
> She joked about starting a MILF Only Fans account before and wanted to know if she could use my penis as a proper for blow job scenes. She says it’s her speciality and she’s right about that.


This cannot be real.

You continue to sexualize your wife for fun and public consumption. This is not the talk of a mature husband, or a man in distress. You did not even mind your wife being equated to a p*o*t*t*t* in a few posts in this thread.

Is this a reality TV show going on? Cyber version?

Your wife is "grieving" at home but look at you. Hey my wife is a supermodel and a porn star (2-in-1). She wants to tap OnlyFans as well.

Focus on how to address your marital situation. You are on a slippery slope. People love to consume drama. You are providing it.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She’s not seriously signing up. If she actually made a real account and was interacting with men on there then bye. But she’s just pretending in an effort to tease me and to try to get back at me for the comment I made. I can’t ever see her being desperate enough to sleep with a random slimeball from a sperm donor app or worse yet, using a turkey baster to put his sperm inside her. The thought makes my stomach turn and in reality I’m sure it does the same to her. Yeah, we’re not talking about a sperm bank, which would also be grounds for divorce, but just random men. Again, 40 year old virgins and perverts with breeding kinks.


How about one of her close male friends at work?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

This story is getting less and less believable every day.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> Has a baby in her 40’s and quits working. how thoughtful and appreciative.
> yep, gonna be a long time coming on that retirement for the new dad. He’ll be one of those guys that keels over a week after his first retirement check hits the Mail.


Yep. the gambit of quitting her job ought to be a bright line limit for @CoffeeandTV. He ought to just take a hardline stance on the whole thing. As his default answer to everything ought to be a "NO". If she chooses to hit the road, so be it because she will eventually over something else. Sad a marriage arrives at this juncture when both of them have arrived at a time they could enjoy.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> I’d be asking to change the bedroom color.
> You need her to start getting used to things not always going her way.


Changing an entitled person's mindset is a difficult task. They don't accept "no" very well.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She does give grade A blow jobs. I can’t deny that. I would go into detail but I might be little too buzzed right now and regret what I say.
> 
> She joked about starting a MILF Only Fans account before and wanted to know if she could use my penis as a proper for blow job scenes. She says it’s her speciality and she’s right about that.


Would that be pregnant woman onlyfans?

Just playing along.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CountryMike said:


> Would that be pregnant woman onlyfans?
> 
> Just playing along.


I would have thought so...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> This story is getting less and less believable every day.


About the time I think we’re being played, then I ask myself if someone could actually make this up.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

jlg07 said:


> I'd feel like I was trying to sleep in a Pepto Bismal bottle.....


The color’s not too far off.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> About the time I think we’re being played, then I ask myself if someone could actually make this up.


If I had read this 4-5 months ago I’d think it was a joke.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

CountryMike said:


> Would that be pregnant woman onlyfans?
> 
> Just playing along.


There are such things. Don’t ask me how I know.

She’s only joked about it and even as nuts as she seems right now I don’t think she’d ever do it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> About the time I think we’re being played, then I ask myself if someone could actually make this up.


Sprawling stories, never ending, always changing, that lead nowhere. If someone is making them up, they must have a very low self-entertaining threshold.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

jlg07 said:


> just tell her flat out that you are not doing the fertility test, that you TOLD her you would not, and yet she felt the need to order the test anyway? Ask her what her justification is for doing that since you explicitly said you would NOT take it.
> Tell her that "You got pissed at me for asking for a pregnancy test when you are showing some signs with throwing up, yet you expect ME to be all smiles about something I explicitly said I wouldn't do? No way -- throw that test in the garbage like you had me do for the pregnancy test"


Already told her I’m not doing it. Last night when I got home I told her we’re not having a baby either. Now she thinks it’s my friends’ faults since I was with them yesterday evening. Oh I told them all about everything and they think she’s crazy and that I’m crazy for even considering going along with her plans.

All of the times I’ve said no over the past 3-4 months weren’t enough? My friends didn’t put anything in my mind. She “hates” me now. Guess what? I don’t even care at the moment.Last night she said she hated me and I said “oh, that’s too bad” and went to bed.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Sprawling stories, never ending, always changing, that lead nowhere. If someone is making them up, they must have a very low self-entertaining threshold.


Well I was reading a poster Busy Washing My Hair before a lot of deletions I guess. Those posts went all over the place.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> How about one of her close male friends at work?


I hope she’s at least chooses one of the higher level executives.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I hope she’s at least chooses one of the higher level executives.


Nah, it will be Poindexter the copier repair guy.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CountryMike said:


> Well I was reading a poster Busy Washing My Hair before a lot of deletions I guess. Those posts went all over the place.


You forgot Cici...


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

CountryMike said:


> Nah, it will be Poindexter the copier repair guy.


There’s a guy who has to be over 40 and a virgin and he works in IT. My wife told me he has superhero bedding with matching curtains, but hey at least he owns his own home.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Already told her I’m not doing it. Last night when I got home I told her we’re not having a baby either. Now she thinks it’s my friends’ faults since I was with them yesterday evening. Oh I told them all about everything and they think she’s crazy and that I’m crazy for even considering going along with her plans.
> 
> All of the times I’ve said no over the past 3-4 months weren’t enough? My friends didn’t put anything in my mind. She “hates” me now. Guess what? I don’t even care at the moment.Last night she said she hated me and I said “oh, that’s too bad” and went to bed.


@CoffeeandTV 

Your marriage is falling apart over this issue. I'm sure this is very similar to something I posted early on, but I don't think you were at the place you are now..... you have to be willing to lose your marriage to keep it. You provide security. You need to start taking that away, in an attempt to wake her up, but you have to be willing to follow through all the way.

Start by making yourself less available, move into a different room, get a separate bank account and put half the funds into it. You need to send a message that you are not going to tolerate this stuff, and maybe the fear of losing you will be enough to wake her up.... maybe not.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> You forgot Cici...


Legend…


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TinyTbone said:


> Sorry I'll be 62 this year.


There is an edit function that you can use to correct this in the post itself. At the top right of your post are 3 vertical dots. Right click on that and a menu will popup. Select "edit".


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> There’s a guy who has to be over 40 and a virgin and he works in IT. My wife told me he has superhero bedding with matching curtains, but hey at least he owns his own home.


How does she know what bedding he has?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Already told her I’m not doing it. Last night when I got home I told her we’re not having a baby either. Now she thinks it’s my friends’ faults since I was with them yesterday evening. Oh I told them all about everything and they think she’s crazy and that I’m crazy for even considering going along with her plans.nooooo, did they really? They didn’t say you were being too dismissive?
> 
> All of the times I’ve said no over the past 3-4 months weren’t enough?clearly that’s a no My friends didn’t put anything in my mind. She “hates” me now. Guess what? I don’t even care at the moment.Last night she said she hated me and I said “oh, that’s too bad” and went to bed.


She hates you? That’s different from giving you a bj midday and telling you how wonderful you are……. 
Super childish, spoiled, entitled behavior.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> How does she know what bedding he has?


She went to his house warming party. He invited a bunch of people from work and she went just to be nice. She said she and another female co-worker went into a bedroom and it had a twin bed with superhero bedding and matching curtains. She asked him if it was for his nieces and nephews when they came to stay but he said no it was his room that he slept in.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Just curious how she knows what is in his bedroom? 🤔🤔🤔🤔

Edit: Answered


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ABHale said:


> Just curious how she knows what is in his bedroom? 🤔🤔🤔🤔


That was answered above.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

It may be useful to start being busy busy busy away from home for a long while.
That way your wife gets a clear idea the way she is acting isn’t acceptable… and you aren’t going along with her plan.

she hasn’t respected you - and she is disregarding you - act accordingly.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

I left the house before she even woke up today. Later, I got a text saying “I might be pregnant now.” Hmm, not buying it. It’s as if she’s doing anything she can think of or say to try to get a rise out of me. It feels like an alien has taken over my wife’s body. It’s legitimately starting to make me feel sick.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> It may be useful to start being busy busy busy away from home for a long while.
> That way your wife gets a clear idea the way she is acting isn’t acceptable… and you aren’t going along with her plan.
> 
> she hasn’t respected you - and she is disregarding you - act accordingly.


I’m already thinking about what I could go and do tonight to stay away!


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Never mind that last thought. She won’t be home until close to 8 tonight due to a last minute work thing. I guess I’m becoming as bad as her because I instantly fired off “Staying late to get knocked up by somebody at the office?” She hasn’t responded. Two can play this game.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Playing games is not wise at all. You really need to stop participating. 
so a couple of days ago the pregnancy test was offensive, now she’s saying she might be pregnant? Hmmn


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Never mind that last thought. She won’t be home until close to 8 tonight due to a last minute work thing. I guess I’m becoming as bad as her because I instantly fired off “Staying late to get knocked up by somebody at the office?” She hasn’t responded. Two can play this game.


STOP playing games with her!!

When you do you're acting just as whacked out and immature as she is.

The two of you have NO business having a baby. 

I also don't see this situation getting better between the two of you. Especially when neither of you have any problem throwing gasoline on the fire the two of you have going and it's getting bigger and bigger and out of control.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She does give grade A blow jobs. I can’t deny that. I would go into detail but I might be little too buzzed right now and regret what I say.
> 
> She joked about starting a MILF Only Fans account before and wanted to know if she could use my penis as a proper for blow job scenes. She says it’s her speciality and she’s right about that.





CoffeeandTV said:


> Never mind that last thought. She won’t be home until close to 8 tonight due to a last minute work thing. I guess I’m becoming as bad as her because I instantly fired off “Staying late to get knocked up by somebody at the office?” She hasn’t responded. Two can play this game.


I wish I could believe you’re kidding. You guys have no real boundaries do you? Or at the very least, nobody willing to take the high road and be the adult.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

This nonsense is still going on?  Why? You are too damned old to behave this way. Now, if you two are really in your twenties...


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Never mind that last thought. She won’t be home until close to 8 tonight due to a last minute work thing. I guess I’m becoming as bad as her because I instantly fired off “Staying late to get knocked up by somebody at the office?” She hasn’t responded. Two can play this game.


Not good. Putting ideas in her head ( or confirming thoughts already swirling there ) doesn't help anything. The bad thing now is whenever she returns, you will for sure have a knock-down drag out fight. Until early morning, then tomorrow is screwed up for both of you.

Your an adult, you don't have to let her get to you.

I also personally don't think staying away from your home is healthy. It is your home. Spend it there and don't let her run you out of your own house. Cook a meal for the two of you (or just for you if she insists on being pist). Watch a movie YOU have been wanting to watch. Work on your hobbies. If you don't have one, get a new one. What were you planning for all of the spare time you have because there isn't a new baby?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

@CoffeeandTV: At your age, I know you know this. But to reiterate, you need to think more and speak less. And don't just speak what is rattling around in your head unfiltered. Careless words can never be retrieved. Better to say nothing than to say things you will live to regret. If you recall, you have already put some thoughts out there that accomplished nothing except to rip the fabric of your marriage some more. 

In the case of her telling you she would be late home, wouldn't it have made more sense to have a long pause and then just say "see you soon, drive safely. Good luck with the work." No matter what you are thinking in your head.

One of my dear old combat Marine Dad's sayings (not original), "Better to be silent and be thought a fool than speak and remove all doubts"


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I really think you should just be firm, unwavering about the truth which is you don’t want a baby and why.
You also need to be careful about throwing fuel on her crazy fire. 
You playing into the crazy may cause her to start the wheels of resentment and anger rolling even more.

Calm, strong, compassionate, but firm in your own stance.

Give her time to get over it, but don’t take her abuse and don’t keep throwing jabs.
It’s hard to argue, fight, and stay mad at someone who is being fair, isn’t fighting back, and shows you they love you. 

About the weapon she’s using against you….
I would like to hear the right way to handle that. There doesn’t really seem to be one. If she keeps that up though, I’d do as I said before and hand her papers. I wouldn’t stay with a drama starting poop stirrer. She could back off or get out. Up to her.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I left the house before she even woke up today. Later, I got a text saying “I might be pregnant now.” Hmm, not buying it. It’s as if she’s doing anything she can think of or say to try to get a rise out of me. It feels like an alien has taken over my wife’s body. It’s legitimately starting to make me feel sick.


Did you ask her how that would have happened since she sworn to you she stayed on birth control pills?

She has thrown up three times in the last week so she certainly could be pregnant if she messed around with her pills at all.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I left the house before she even woke up today. Later, I got a text saying “I might be pregnant now.” Hmm, not buying it. It’s as if she’s doing anything she can think of or say to try to get a rise out of me. It feels like an alien has taken over my wife’s body. It’s legitimately starting to make me feel sick.


I have a strong suspicion that this situation is about to get a whole lot worse.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

re16 said:


> I have a strong suspicion that this situation is about to get a whole lot worse.


About 7.5 lbs worse.

“Why do you want a DNA test? Don’t you trust me? I hate you”


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> About 7.5 lbs worse.
> 
> “Why do you want a DNA test? Don’t you trust me? I hate you”


If a spouse says they hate you and no consequences are levied, I think there is really no chance of regaining some sort of respect.

The lack of respect Mrs. Coffee shows is unreal.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

So if she is already pregnant then she's probably already given herself a pregnancy test and has known this for a while but just didn't want you to know until you consented 
and she could pretend she just now got pregnant.

Does it look like she's keeping her appointment tomorrow?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Never mind that last thought. She won’t be home until close to 8 tonight due to a last minute work thing. I guess I’m becoming as bad as her because I instantly fired off “Staying late to get knocked up by somebody at the office?” She hasn’t responded. Two can play this game.


After all the **** she has put you through over the past 3+ months, I can’t blame you for that remark.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I left the house before she even woke up today. Later, I got a text saying “I might be pregnant now.” Hmm, not buying it. It’s as if she’s doing anything she can think of or say to try to get a rise out of me. It feels like an alien has taken over my wife’s body. It’s legitimately starting to make me feel sick.


Your with is acting like a total POS. We would have had a come to Jesus moment by now. She is throwing her marriage away at this rate. There is something seriously wrong with her. Good luck.


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

It is unclear whether your wife is struggling because she wants a child or is she trying to spread the risk because she has unprotected intercourse.

your marriage may not survive this storm.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

I know it shouldn’t feed into it and start acting like she is. After everything she’s said to me I couldn’t help but get a jab in and didn’t stop to think about it first. This isn’t how things normally are between us. We usually get along great.

I was nice. I made dinner so it’d be ready for when she got home. She came home and told me “officially knocked up! Hopefully the baby will look enough like you.” I think we’ve drawn a truce on those types of comments now though. Things seem ok tonight for now. Offered to go to her appointment with her and she said no. I will be checking online to make sure she actually goes, call me paranoid.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She came home and told me “officially knocked up!


Surprised no one at all.


----------



## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Personal said:


> Surprised no one at all.


This too. Both are 'mature' and 'even'.

I am just wondering if a wife tolerates statements like these...


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Already pregnant huh?

Count me as not surprised.

Not sure why you aren't going with her to the appointment. A pregnancy test will be the first order of business and then you can put to rest all the ********.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Tron said:


> Not sure why you aren't going with her to the appointment.


He offered / asked and she told him "no". So he can't go with her because she doesn't want him there.

Actually, these days because of HIPAA a medical professional will not speak to anyone except the patient without the patient's approval. I accompany my wife to all of her doctor (including gyno) visits because she asks me to, says she wants another listening ear in case she misses something said. I am present during all of her examinations. Still, the doctor(s) will always ask her, with me sitting next to her, "are you ok with him hearing what I say?"


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I was nice. I made dinner so it’d be ready for when she got home. She came home and told me “officially knocked up! Hopefully the baby will look enough like you.” *I think we’ve drawn a truce on those types of comments now though. Things seem ok tonight for now.* Offered to go to her appointment with her and she said no. *I will be checking online to make sure she actually goes, call me paranoid.*


Good for both of you to stop with the hurtful comments. Of course you can only control yourself in that regard.

Regarding the "checking", why do you care to spend effort that way? If you don't trust her to do the simplest thing she committed to, how can you trust her on anything? Like what she is doing when she says she is working late for example?

I would find it too exhausting to "check" up on such things. You have told her your decision regarding a siring another child. Hopefully you are willing to deal with whatever consequences arise from that decision. While it is possible she is already pregnant, that can only be true if she has been lying to you for months. And that deception will soon become obvious without you "checking". You can then deal with that if necessary in a manner of your choosing.

One other thing that comes to mind is your conversation with your friends the other night airing problems your "crazy" wife is causing you. IMO, the less family issues are aired outside of the family, the better. Adding more people to the mix just gets the shyte storm circulating wider, like on social media for example. Wife and I always kept our issues between us and us alone.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She came home and told me “officially knocked up! Hopefully the baby will look enough like you.” I think we’ve drawn a truce on those types of comments now though.


Not a very funny joke...


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I think it's amazing (not a good amazing) she's acting like it's a given she would even be able to get pregnant. That's entitled thinking. Older women are not fertile invincible.

Women in their 30s often take a year to get pregnant (and that's a normal time frame) and most women at her age require reproductive assistance to accomplish it and many fail. 

How long has she been on the pill? _When's the last time she even ovulated???_


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Tron said:


> Already pregnant huh?
> 
> Count me as not surprised.
> 
> Not sure why you aren't going with her to the appointment. A pregnancy test will be the first order of business and then you can put to rest all the ******.


If she thinks she is pregnant she will already have done a test.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I’m not pregnant! Iim on birth control!I’m offended by your test request! We can have see every day and I’ll give you a bj every day if you’ll just knock me up. 

next day: I think I’m pregnant…..
Op hasn’t even mentioned getting a pregnancy test


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> I think it's amazing (not a good amazing) she's acting like it's a given she would even be able to get pregnant. That's entitled thinking. Older women are not fertile invincible.
> 
> Women in their 30s often take a year to get pregnant (and that's a normal time frame) and most women at her age require reproductive assistance to accomplish it and many fail.
> 
> How long has she been on the pill? _When's the last time she even ovulated???_


Maybe it’s not entitled as much as just extremely hopefully optimism to why he point she’s convinced herself it would happen since she doesn’t want to think of the alternative. She’s been on the pill since right after our son was born over 24 years ago.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Maybe it’s not entitled as much as just extremely hopefully optimism to why he point she’s convinced herself it would happen since she doesn’t want to think of the alternative. She’s been on the pill since right after our son was born over 24 years ago.


Honestly,
Either you should get snipped or her get her tubes tied. Being in the pill that long isn’t all that healthy. In your shoes, I’d have scheduled the snip 3 months ago


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Tron said:


> Already pregnant huh?
> 
> Count me as not surprised.
> 
> Not sure why you aren't going with her to the appointment. A pregnancy test will be the first order of business and then you can put to rest all the ******.


I can’t force my way into the appointment. I have access to her online medical account with access to all doctors notes, appointment summaries, and test results and unless she goes in and changes it today she has given all of her doctors the permission to share her medical information with me (and I have done the same for myself). She’s not pregnant anyway, just toying with me. I think she’s enjoyed that a lot lately and I don’t know why.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> Honestly,
> Either you should get snipped or her get her tubes tied. Being in the pill that long isn’t all that healthy. In your shoes, I’d have scheduled the snip 3 months ago


It was her decision to stay on birth control. I guess we both decided for me to not get a vasectomy many years ago “just in case,” but we should have revisited the topic in subsequent years. Well the subject has certainly been brought up now and will probably be in my future.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I can admit I’ve let her get away with that sometimes but for minor things where I would have probably agreed anyway. I’m talking about really minor things, like when she wanted to paint our bedroom pink and I wanted a different color. I agreed to let her have it her way and it was during sex that she made me say yes to her. I would have let her have her way on something like that anyway because at the end of the day the wall color of our bedroom means a heck of a lot more to her than it ever will to me.


You're bedroom is painted pink? And...you agreed to that DURING sex? 


You have a pink bedroom. That explains a lot.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

uwe.blab said:


> You're bedroom is painted pink? And...you agreed to that DURING sex?
> 
> 
> You have a pink bedroom. That explains a lot.


Bedroom color is an issue now?

My wife have decorated (our) room as per her taste in large part. I will allow her to have it painted as per her taste as well (when she feels the need to). She should feel good and loved in (our) private space at home. I get to sleep in (our) room in peace with a content wife. WE do NOT talk about this stuff DURING sex, nevertheless.

People should not spur OP to be rebellious in his marriage by any means necessary. He have the tendency to ignore sensible advice and repeat mistakes. This will not bode well for him.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Bedroom color is an issue now?
> 
> My wife have decorated (our) room as per her taste in large part. I will allow her to have it painted as per her taste as well (when she feels the need to). This is the point: she should feel good and loved in (our) private space at home. WE do NOT talk about this stuff DURING sex, nevertheless.
> 
> People should not spur OP to be rebellious in his marriage by any means necessary. He have the tendency to ignore sensible advice and repeat mistakes. This will not bode well for him.


That's because it can be hard to be a rational adult. It's easy to feed into "I'm great, she's crazy" But I see that he is lost now so I'm done with advice. It will either work or it won't but the echo chamber of TAM will not do him well.


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## AlwaysImproving (5 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> That's because it can be hard to be a rational adult. It's easy to feed into "I'm great, she's crazy" But I see that he is lost now so I'm done with advice. It will either work or it won't but the echo chamber of TAM will not do him well.


I came to a similar conclusion many pages ago.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Yeah she is crazy. That’s how she’s acting.
Her “jokes” are nothing more than hurtful jabs.
I doubt she’s really crazy, just acting in a childish, spoiled, entitled, vindictive manner.
What’s is extremely odd is the fact that she’s suddenly acting in a manner that nobody could possibly tolerate after years of supposed good behavior. Very hard to believe events in this thread. One thing is certain, she didn’t learn how to manipulate and control her husband overnight.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Maybe it’s not entitled as much as just extremely hopefully optimism to why he point she’s convinced herself it would happen since she doesn’t want to think of the alternative. She’s been on the pill since right after our son was born over 24 years ago.


Holy ****. So she doesn't even know if she even still is capable of ovulation, as an older woman.

Also, FYI people on long term chemical birth control often lose the ability to ovulate, and two and a half decades is a motherfucking long time.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Holy ****. So she doesn't even know if she even still is capable of ovulation, as an older woman.
> 
> Also, FYI people on long term chemical birth control often lose the ability to ovulate, and two and a half decades is a motherfucking long time.


Is it really that crazy that a 40 year old woman would be on birth control since she was a teenager?

Anyway, this post is enough for me to want to try to prove people wrong. She’s not the only crazy one between us lately I guess.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> Yeah she is crazy. That’s how she’s acting.
> Her “jokes” are nothing more than hurtful jabs.
> I doubt she’s really crazy, just acting in a childish, spoiled, entitled, vindictive manner.
> What’s is extremely odd is the fact that she’s suddenly acting in a manner that nobody could possibly tolerate after years of supposed good behavior. Very hard to believe events in this thread. One thing is certain, she didn’t learn how to manipulate and control her husband overnight.


She’s not crazy, just very stubborn and very upset. She DOES have a history of being stubborn but it’s never come out like this before.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> That's because it can be hard to be a rational adult. It's easy to feed into "I'm great, she's crazy" But I see that he is lost now so I'm done with advice. It will either work or it won't but the echo chamber of TAM will not do him well.


I don’t think she’s crazy. She is acting unlike her usual self, or maybe I should say this is a more extreme version of her normal self. I’m not lost. I’ve said some thoughtless things to her out of frustration recently.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> Good for both of you to stop with the hurtful comments. Of course you can only control yourself in that regard.
> 
> Regarding the "checking", why do you care to spend effort that way? If you don't trust her to do the simplest thing she committed to, how can you trust her on anything? Like what she is doing when she says she is working late for example?
> 
> ...


I normally don’t check up on her in that way but with the way she’s acting I rather see information for myself. I’m also concerned about what’s going on with her and I like to see test results and numbers for myself because I don’t have complete trust in doctors for some personal reasons. Anyway she’s been sent for several blood tests today.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I don’t think she’s crazy. She is acting unlike her usual self, or maybe I should say this is a more extreme version of her normal self. I’m not lost. I’ve said some thoughtless things to her out of frustration recently.


And I wish you well.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Is it really that crazy that a 40 year old woman would be on birth control since she was a teenager?
> 
> Anyway, this post is enough for me to want to try to prove people wrong. She’s not the only crazy one between us lately I guess.


It's not. A lot of women stay on birth control until they're not fertile at all and don't take chances. And being on hormones can help with some things during perimenopause and menopause. I've been on hormones a lot longer than that. I went off them one time because I had cryosurgery, and I couldn't live with how that left me so I went back on them with the doctor's blessing.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Is it really that crazy that a 40 year old woman would be on birth control since she was a teenager?
> 
> Anyway, this post is enough for me to want to try to prove people wrong. She’s not the only crazy one between us lately I guess.


Where did I say it was crazy to be on birth control? I didn't. 

I did say, though, holy ****, she is so deep into thinking she could achieve a pregnancy but she's a person who isn't even aware if she's still ovulating at her age. Lots of women at 40 and beyond (not on birth control) have begun anovulatory periods. You still get your period but you don't ovulate. That's one reason why so many women in their 40s get heavier periods, an anovulatory cycle is heavier because there isn't progesterone produced by the ovulated egg to balance your estrogen. 

Well, look it up. It is true that women who have been on birth control for decades often don't ovulate when they do go off birth control. 

Why that side effect of the long term usage of the pill makes you "want to try to prove (people???? the pharmaceutical company?? who???) wrong" is your own issue to deal with.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Where did I say it was crazy to be on birth control? I didn't.
> 
> I did say, though, holy ****, she is so deep into thinking she could achieve a pregnancy but she's a person who isn't even aware if she's still ovulating at her age. Lots of women at 40 and beyond (not on birth control) have begun anovulatory periods. You still get your period but you don't ovulate. That's one reason why so many women in their 40s get heavier periods, an anovulatory cycle is heavier because there isn't progesterone produced by the ovulated egg to balance your estrogen.
> 
> ...


That's true. Without them she may not ovulate although she's still a little early to go into menopause. 

I just wouldn't be taking any chances if I was Coffee. 

She just has some deep issues going on with aging so she is not thinking clearly about it at all.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Where did I say it was crazy to be on birth control? I didn't.
> 
> I did say, though, holy ****, she is so deep into thinking she could achieve a pregnancy but she's a person who isn't even aware if she's still ovulating at her age. Lots of women at 40 and beyond (not on birth control) have begun anovulatory periods. You still get your period but you don't ovulate. That's one reason why so many women in their 40s get heavier periods, an anovulatory cycle is heavier because there isn't progesterone produced by the ovulated egg to balance your estrogen.
> 
> ...


I know you’re right about women not ovulating or it taking them a long time of being off birth control before they ovulate or have normal cycles (if ever) again. That’s why I started to wonder if she stopped using it a few months ago not with the intention of tricking me into getting her pregnant but to prepare for when I’d get get on board with her idea, with the idea that her body might need a longer break from the birth control first.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I know you’re right about women not ovulating or it taking them a long time of being off birth control before they ovulate or have normal cycles (if ever) again. That’s why I started to wonder if she stopped using it a few months ago not with the intention of tricking me into getting her pregnant but to prepare for when I’d get get on board with her idea, with the idea that her body might need a longer break from the birth control first.


The way she has been acting and the way she contradicts herself and won't take a pregnancy test for you to see, I have little doubt that she went off birth control at some point and tried to get pregnant. I hope today's blood tests explain why she's been throwing up regularly if it's not pregnancy. Because that is not normal.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> The way she has been acting and the way she contradicts herself and won't take a pregnancy test for you to see, I have little doubt that she went off birth control at some point and tried to get pregnant. I hope today's blood tests explain why she's been throwing up regularly if it's not pregnancy. Because that is not normal.


If she has been trying to get pregnant then why would she have avoided sex for months?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> If she has been trying to get pregnant then why would she have avoided sex for months?


Increase OP's sperm count? Increase his desire beyond his control?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> If she has been trying to get pregnant then why would she have avoided sex for months?


To talk him into it because she knows that's the leverage with him. It's just a possibility. She could have done it or tried to without him knowing and then decided to withhold sex to blackmail him into agreeing. No matter how you look at this what we've been presented so far it doesn't make sense to a straight thinking person. 

If he doesn't get an answer today whether she's pregnant or not, that would just be a totally unrealistic scenario.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

OP, what is your game plan at this point?


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

I have to say this, your wife's movements are inconsistent and you don't do any reality checks.

relationship?

pregnant?

you didn't even check the phone bill,

Are you like this because you trust your wife or because you don't care about her?

your marriage is going down a cliff


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> If she has been trying to get pregnant then why would she have avoided sex for months?


They've had sex over the past three months. Thread title was misleading.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Anyway, this post is enough for me to want to try to prove people wrong. She’s not the only crazy one between us lately I guess.


This is so incongruent with the position you wanted us to believe. Why the switch? Why the drama?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Is it really that crazy that a 40 year old woman would be on birth control since she was a teenager?
> 
> Anyway, this post is enough for me to want to try to prove people wrong. She’s not the only crazy one between us lately I guess.


Nah, my wife has been on birth control longer than that. Despite a long time of not the most activity I would say we have had raw PIV no pull out sex 2000 times at least and zero kids to show for it. So either my sperms are broken (highly unlikely) or the pills work if you take them.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

PieceOfSky said:


> This is so incongruent with the position you wanted us to believe. Why the switch? Why the drama?


Oh I’m just driven by liking to prove people wrong, for better or worse. It can be a strength and a weakness.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

sideways said:


> They've had sex over the past three months. Thread title was misleading.


Yes, they had sex much less than normal.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Oh I’m just driven by liking to prove people wrong, for better or worse. It can be a strength and a weakness.


Has she been sick again?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Oh I’m just driven by liking to prove people wrong, for better or worse. It can be a strength and a weakness.


Those skills would be better put to use on your scheming wife.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Has she been sick again?


Two more times that I’m aware of.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Those skills would be better put to use on your scheming wife.


True.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

PieceOfSky said:


> This is so incongruent with the position you wanted us to believe. Why the switch? Why the drama?


Because OP is as straight as a logging road himself.


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## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

Not all, but many gyno-doctors start getting their patients to think of other forms (like getting tubes typed or vasectomy) around age 35 due in extra risk for extra side effects (stroke etc). The thinking is if they’re done with having children, why not start considering more permanent forms of BC and eliminate the little bit of extra risk in continuing to take hormonal bc ? Especially for smokers.

Anyway, OP, I wish you the best. Been reading along with this train wreck story. Also, wanted to point out that if you’re wife is vomiting due to being pregnant, I would say she is likely atleast 10 weeks along (meaning baby conceived approx 8 weeks ago).


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Why isn’t there a pregnancy test result by now? Oh, that’s right….. she was joking…. But vomiting every day ……


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

@CoffeeandTV , I will just add that when my wife was sick and prone to upchuck during pregnancy that her tastes changed radically and often. She would want me to fix pancakes for breakfast, which before pregnancy she hated. And by the time they were ready to eat she often lost her desire for them and thought them sickening again. Also weird combinations of foods, a sandwich with sliced dill pickles and sauerkraut (nothing else) for example. 

My recollection was her sickness started at about 4 weeks and lasted for another 4 -6 weeks then it passed and she just started eating everything in sight. But it has been a long time ago so maybe misremembering.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Two more times that I’m aware of.


So she is either pregnant or has something physically wrong. I doubt it is a stomach bug as they are usually a day or two of lots of sickness and nausea and then you are ok. Hers has been spread out.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Lotsofheart73 said:


> Not all, but many gyno-doctors start getting their patients to think of other forms (like getting tubes typed or vasectomy) around age 35 due in extra risk for extra side effects (stroke etc). The thinking is if they’re done with having children, why not start considering more permanent forms of BC and eliminate the little bit of extra risk in continuing to take hormonal bc ? Especially for smokers.
> 
> Anyway, OP, I wish you the best. Been reading along with this train wreck story. Also, wanted to point out that if you’re wife is vomiting due to being pregnant, I would say she is likely atleast 10 weeks along (meaning baby conceived approx 8 weeks ago).


Sickness often starts at around 6 weeks(4 weeks since conception) and stops at around 12 weeks.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rus47 said:


> @CoffeeandTV , I will just add that when my wife was sick and prone to upchuck during pregnancy that her tastes changed radically and often. She would want me to fix pancakes for breakfast, which before pregnancy she hated. And by the time they were ready to eat she often lost her desire for them and thought them sickening again. Also weird combinations of foods, a sandwich with sliced dill pickles and sauerkraut (nothing else) for example.
> 
> My recollection was her sickness started at about 4 weeks and lasted for another 4 -6 weeks then it passed and she just started eating everything in sight. But it has been a long time ago so maybe misremembering.


Yes 4 weeks since conception is the norm. Usually stops by about 12 weeks.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Urine pregnancy test at doctor negative. They are going to check for pregnancy as part of several standard blood tests, although if she were that early on in her pregnancy that it wouldn’t be detected by urine test then it wouldn’t explain the vomiting. In house lab so doctor said they’d probably be able to call by end of day tomorrow. They could not find any obvious reason for why she’s been sick and think it could be due to stress. She said she told the doctor about our disagreement about having a baby. If so, I’m sure she left out most of the details.

She confessed she stopped birth control for 2 weeks 3 months ago, thinking I’d easily agree to her idea. Then when I didn’t she started taking the pills again because she wasn’t trying to trick me, she just thought I’d agree 3 months ago and we could start trying right away and she knows it could take many months (or never, but she won’t admit that her fertility might be compromised now). We didn’t have sex around that time she claims to have been off birth control.

She’s being very calm and collected today. Acting like a normal person right now. She even apologized for acting “a little crazy.” She claims she doesn’t want us to fight about It anymore but that she’s going to be sad for a while and I have to let her be sad about it. She‘s “devastated” but doesn’t want to live like we have been for the last 3 plus months.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Urine pregnancy test at doctor negative. They are going to check for pregnancy as part of several standard blood tests, although if she were that early on in her pregnancy that it wouldn’t be detected by urine test then it wouldn’t explain the vomiting. In house lab so doctor said they’d probably be able to call by end of day tomorrow. They could not find any obvious reason for why she’s been sick and think it could be due to stress. She said she told the doctor about our disagreement about having a baby. If so, I’m sure she left out most of the details.
> 
> She confessed she stopped birth control for 2 weeks 3 months ago, thinking I’d easily agree to her idea. Then when I didn’t she started taking the pills again because she wasn’t trying to trick me, she just thought I’d agree 3 months ago and we could start trying right away and she knows it could take many months (or never, but she won’t admit that her fertility might be compromised now). We didn’t have sex around that time she claims to have been off birth control.
> 
> She’s being very calm and collected today. Acting like a normal person right now. She even apologized for acting “a little crazy.” She claims she doesn’t want us to fight about It anymore but that she’s going to be sad for a while and I have to let her be sad about it. She‘s “devastated” but doesn’t want to live like we have been for the last 3 plus months.


Get a vasectomy before she changes her mind. If her throwing up is due to stress that is psychosomatic illness. She's definitely a little crazy right now. How absolutely awful of her to lie to you all these months instead of just coming clean about it at the time.


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## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Sickness often starts at around 6 weeks(4 weeks since conception) and stops at around 12 weeks.


Yes, that’s what many “books” say but I have not found that to be the case. And since I did not add a footnote citing a source I , like many other posters are speaking from my experience so there is no need to you to “correct” me . 

You want to quote medical books or state your own opinion or experience, fine. That’s what you want to post. But again, no need for you to try to correct someone else’s post.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

So if she went off her pills for 2 weeks and then started them back up when she says she did, the next week she could have gotten pregnant too because they wouldn't have been effective yet. And that varies some. There are some out there that takes a whole month.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Urine pregnancy test at doctor negative. They are going to check for pregnancy as part of several standard blood tests, although if she were that early on in her pregnancy that it wouldn’t be detected by urine test then it wouldn’t explain the vomiting. In house lab so doctor said they’d probably be able to call by end of day tomorrow. They could not find any obvious reason for why she’s been sick and think it could be due to stress. She said she told the doctor about our disagreement about having a baby. If so, I’m sure she left out most of the details.
> 
> She confessed she stopped birth control for 2 weeks 3 months ago, thinking I’d easily agree to her idea. Then when I didn’t she started taking the pills again because she wasn’t trying to trick me, she just thought I’d agree 3 months ago and we could start trying right away and she knows it could take many months (or never, but she won’t admit that her fertility might be compromised now). We didn’t have sex around that time she claims to have been off birth control.
> 
> She’s being very calm and collected today. Acting like a normal person right now. She even apologized for acting “a little crazy.”* She claims she doesn’t want us to fight about It anymore but that she’s going to be sad for a while and I have to let her be sad about it. She‘s “devastated” but doesn’t want to live like we have been for the last 3 plus months.*


One of the few reasonable things she’s said.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She claims she doesn’t want us to fight about It anymore but that she’s going to be sad for a while and I have to let her be sad about it. She‘s “devastated” but doesn’t want to live like we have been for the last 3 plus months.


I think that's probably a load of BS and her trying to get you feeling bad for her again. Regardless, she's right that you need to give her the space to grieve or whatever. It doesn't mean you have to (or should) let her treat you the way she has been, or that you have to do more than be there for her. Just let her be sad. You don't need to fix everything. 

My wife sometimes throws up if she's feeling very upset, nervous, or stressed. She's not winning any awards for being the sanest person out there, but stress-induced or anxiety-induced nausea is a real thing and not necessarily a manipulation tactic or "definitely" a sign of a "crazy person".


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Lotsofheart73 said:


> Yes, that’s what many “books” say but I have not found that to be the case. And since I did not add a footnote citing a source I , like many other posters are speaking from my experience so there is no need to you to “correct” me .
> 
> You want to quote medical books or state your own opinion or experience, fine. That’s what you want to post. But again, no need for you to try to correct someone else’s post.


Why should she have to quote someone if you didn't? Take it easy.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

What's ironic is that the tests you buy at the drugstore would have tested for early pregnancy.

And her using the excuse that she thought you would just go along with it easily is no excuse for her to stop birth control without talking to you. I mean presumably you live in the same house together and see each other multiple times a day so there's only one reason why she wouldn't have mentioned that to you, and that's because she was trying to get pregnant without you knowing she was trying to get pregnant.

I'm sure now that you know part of the truth, she is very anxious to not quarrel anymore and would like very much if you forgot the whole thing.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Oh I’m just driven by liking to prove people wrong, for better or worse. It can be a strength and a weakness.


Always for worse, always a weakness, if you think people are yours to use in that way.

It only counts when your motives are transparent, and your actions above board. Otherwise, all you get in the end is the sound of one hand clapping. A mutual admiration society where you are the only member.

In the example you just raised, after dozens of pages protesting you decide to give your wife the child she desperately wants for no reason other than someone on the internet said something that allegedly riled you up. Indeed that proves someone wrong.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Why should she have to quote someone if you didn't? Take it easy.


Some people like to just hear (or in this case, see) themselves talk. She might as well get the information correct. 

Nausea can start at 4 weeks but 6 is more common, it typically peaks around 9-10 weeks and is often gone by the second trimester but not always and it often returns around 20 weeks for a while. Some women experience morning sickness throughout the entire pregnancy, and sometimes it's extreme (hyperemesis gravidarum) and requires hospitalization and TPN. Source: Way too many pregnancies in this house. 

It doesn't matter though because all of the conspiracy theories won't change the fact that his wife is not pregnant.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

bobert said:


> Some people like to just hear (or in this case, see) themselves talk. She might as well get the information correct.
> 
> Nausea can start at 4 weeks but 6 is more common, it typically peaks around 9-10 weeks and is often gone by the second trimester but not always and it often returns around 20 weeks for a while. Some women experience morning sickness throughout the entire pregnancy, and sometimes it's extreme (hyperemesis gravidarum) and requires hospitalization and TPN. Source: Way too many pregnancies in this house.
> 
> It doesn't matter though because all of the conspiracy theories won't change the fact that his wife is not pregnant.


I definitely heard of women who had morning sickness the whole time.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> What's ironic is that the tests you buy at the drugstore would have tested for early pregnancy.


Blood tests can sometimes detect pregnant much earlier still, but she says the doctor doesn’t think she’s pregnant. They will just run it along with several other basic tests to play it safe. She said one of the first thing the doctor asked her was if she could be pregnant and she claims she told them the truth about being off birth control for a few weeks but that she was sure she wasn’t pregnant. They had her to do a urine test in office along with a basic in house urinalysis. She said the doctor didn’t seem concerned. I am! I understand it could be stress and she’s certainly been emotionally wound up lately, but that’s not really good enough for me. I want other things to be ruled out. She’s sick again tonight. She was fine all day today, and then it comes on suddenly and she looks terrible? I mean it’s obvious by looking at her when she has one of these episodes. She’s not making it up. That’s not normal. I need more proof before I can fully believe it’s just stress and anxiety.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

bobert said:


> Some people like to just hear (or in this case, see) themselves talk. She might as well get the information correct.
> 
> Nausea can start at 4 weeks but 6 is more common, it typically peaks around 9-10 weeks and is often gone by the second trimester but not always and it often returns around 20 weeks for a while. Some women experience morning sickness throughout the entire pregnancy, and sometimes it's extreme (hyperemesis gravidarum) and requires hospitalization and TPN. Source: Way too many pregnancies in this house.
> 
> It doesn't matter though because all of the conspiracy theories won't change the fact that his wife is not pregnant.


Yeah and then there are women who don’t have any sickness at all for the duration of their pregnancy, as was the case with my wife. Nothing is completely textbook.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Blood tests can sometimes detect pregnant much earlier still, but she says the doctor doesn’t think she’s pregnant. They will just run it along with several other basic tests to play it safe. She said one of the first thing the doctor asked her was if she could be pregnant and she claims she told them the truth about being off birth control for a few weeks but that she was sure she wasn’t pregnant. They had her to do a urine test in office along with a basic in house urinalysis. She said the doctor didn’t seem concerned. I am! I understand it could be stress and she’s certainly been emotionally wound up lately, but that’s not really good enough for me. I want other things to be ruled out. She’s sick again tonight. She was fine all day today, and then it comes on suddenly and she looks terrible? I mean it’s obvious by looking at her when she has one of these episodes. She’s not making it up. That’s not normal. I need more proof before I can fully believe it’s just stress and anxiety.


So now you said 2 weeks she was off birth control and now you said she told the doctor a few weeks. 

The way she's been acting so crazy and hysterical she could be throwing up from being hysterical and psychosomatic. But pregnancy comes to mind a lot more often than that does. So let's hope he gets the rest of the test soon so you don't start throwing up from being stressed out yourself.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I definitely heard of women who had morning sickness the whole time.


It’s pretty rare for it to happen before 4 weeks though, because the hormones that tend to cause it haven’t increased by such a dramatic amount to cause the sickness before 4 weeks (in most case, not every single one).


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So now you said 2 weeks she was off birth control and now you said she told the doctor a few weeks.
> 
> The way she's been acting so crazy and hysterical she could be throwing up from being hysterical and psychosomatic. But pregnancy comes to mind a lot more often than that does. So let's hope he gets the rest of the test soon so you don't start throwing up from being stressed out yourself.


I’m feeling sick but about the other blood tests and what else besides pregnancy could be going on with her. Today I was driving home from work thinking “please, I rather her be pregnant than have a serious illness or disease.” Chances are slim that’s it’s anything very serious but she’s just never sick so this is weird. I’ve had other people in my life who seemed relatively fine and then they find out they have something serious when not expecting it. I tend to not worry a lot but medical stuff makes me a little nervous these days due to experiences with some people close to me.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m feeling sick but about the other blood tests and what else besides pregnancy could be going on with her. Today I was driving home from work thinking “please, I rather her be pregnant than have a serious illness or disease.” Chances are slim that’s it’s anything very serious but she’s just never sick so this is weird. I’ve had other people in my life who seemed relatively fine and then they find out they have something serious when not expecting it. I tend to not worry a lot but medical stuff makes me a little nervous these days due to experiences with some people close to me.


I can see why you would worry. What I can't see is why she wasn't worried and had to be pressed to go to the doctor about it. That's odd.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Correct me if I am wrong, I have heard about women having false pregnancy. The body goes through the motions of being pregnant but she really isn’t.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m feeling sick but about the other blood tests and what else besides pregnancy could be going on with her. Today I was driving home from work thinking “please, I rather her be pregnant than have a serious illness or disease.” Chances are slim that’s it’s anything very serious but she’s just never sick so this is weird. I’ve had other people in my life who seemed relatively fine and then they find out they have something serious when not expecting it. I tend to not worry a lot but medical stuff makes me a little nervous these days due to experiences with some people close to me.


Is there a possibility of a fallopian tube pregnancy. My wife was one for sure. Her mom gave birth to her at 40. Can or did drs check for this possibility?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

TinyTbone said:


> Is there a possibility of a fallopian tube pregnancy. My wife was one for sure. Her mom gave birth to her at 40. Can or did drs check for this possibility?


Your wife wasn't an ectopic pregnancy baby (grown in the fallopian tube). Ectopic pregnancies are non viable.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

If my wife stopped taking her birth control pills for TWO weeks without telling me I would be PI$$ED!!!!!!


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Urine pregnancy test at doctor negative. They are going to check for pregnancy as part of several standard blood tests, although if she were that early on in her pregnancy that it wouldn’t be detected by urine test then it wouldn’t explain the vomiting. In house lab so doctor said they’d probably be able to call by end of day tomorrow. They could not find any obvious reason for why she’s been sick and think it could be due to stress. She said she told the doctor about our disagreement about having a baby. If so, I’m sure she left out most of the details.
> 
> She confessed she stopped birth control for 2 weeks 3 months ago, thinking I’d easily agree to her idea. Then when I didn’t she started taking the pills again because she wasn’t trying to trick me, she just thought I’d agree 3 months ago and we could start trying right away and she knows it could take many months (or never, but she won’t admit that her fertility might be compromised now). We didn’t have sex around that time she claims to have been off birth control.
> 
> She’s being very calm and collected today. Acting like a normal person right now. She even apologized for acting “a little crazy.” She claims she doesn’t want us to fight about It anymore but that she’s going to be sad for a while and I have to let her be sad about it. She‘s “devastated” but doesn’t want to live like we have been for the last 3 plus months.


So, SHE has calmed down a bit (and HOPEFULLY will stop the BS vindictive games she has been playing) -- and YOU need to now be calm with her and stop the snarky comments. Focus on seeing what the Dr.s say, and ramp down the emotions on all this for you both.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Lotsofheart73 said:


> Yes, that’s what many “books” say but I have not found that to be the case. And since I did not add a footnote citing a source I , like many other posters are speaking from my experience so there is no need to you to “correct” me .
> 
> You want to quote medical books or state your own opinion or experience, fine. That’s what you want to post. But again, no need for you to try to correct someone else’s post.


It's what the medical books say as well as what most women experience. Starting at around 6 weeks and stopping at around 12.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Yeah and then there are women who don’t have any sickness at all for the duration of their pregnancy, as was the case with my wife. Nothing is completely textbook.


Yes, it's just that those who do usually get it at around 6 weeks. Others may just feel tired and weary or off colour generally. 
A poor friend of mine was sick throughout her whole three pregnancies.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Just because she wasn’t sick for her pregnancy at 16 years old - doesn’t mean she would feel the same way while pregnant at 40 years old. So you can’t compare. Every pregnancy is different.

but now you know you can’t trust her - since she went off birth control without discussing a life changing decision - and didn’t even consult you FIRST.

you have no control in your marriage and now you’ve helped her to become a power hungry part of your marriage… the part that will disrespect you and not discuss HUGE decisions with you.
Coupled with the fact that she then treats you like crap when she doesn’t easily get her way when you disagree… you spoiled her to the point where SHE is purposely causing great harm to your marriage!

if you don’t get a handle on the power imbalance now - she will destroy everything that may have ever been good about being with her.

she is unmanageable. And she intends to get what she wants whether you like it or not. So she has eliminated your voice in this matter altogether.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TinyTbone said:


> Is there a possibility of a fallopian tube pregnancy. My wife was one for sure. Her mom gave birth to her at 40. Can or did drs check for this possibility?


An ectopic pregnancy isn't viable, ever. They always end in the loss of the pregnancy since it will rupture the fallopian tube. . From the experience my wife had with this, she experienced excruciating pain well before a urine test would be positive and way before morning sickness would kick in.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

sideways said:


> If my wife stopped taking her birth control pills for TWO weeks without telling me I would be PI$$ED!!!!!!


I don’t even know what the actual truth is any more. Did she really do it at all? If so, was it really for two weeks? She says she told her doctor so what? Is she only telling me because it might appear in the notes I’ll be able to read if I check the doctor’s notes online? What is the point in even telling me now if she’s not pregnant and if it was a few months ago? She could have easily just never mentioned it to me.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> Just because she wasn’t sick for her pregnancy at 16 years old - doesn’t mean she would feel the same way while pregnant at 40 years old. So you can’t compare. Every pregnancy is different.
> 
> but now you know you can’t trust her - since she went off birth control without discussing a life changing decision - and didn’t even consult you FIRST.
> 
> ...


I know that each pregnancy is different and never assumed that just because my wife didn’t get sick at all when she was pregnant the first time doesn’t mean she wouldn’t get sick or have any other complications with a subsequent pregnancy. I just mentioned it because there was discussion about when morning sickness begins and ends and my comment was meant more as a statement of yes morning sickness start and end time may vary and then there are some pregnancies where it doesn’t occur at all.

I don’t know how to unspoil her kindly now. It’s taken years for her to get to this point.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I would get a darn pregnancy test from the drug store and have her take the test in front of you and show you the results— the fact that you haven’t done that already is not a good sign. If that is not something you can muster, you might as well hang up your cleats. 

You don’t Unspoil her. You start being firm, never backtracking on decisions. Never be rude or fight back with her when she doesn’t like your decision. Just tell her calmly what your decision is and stick to it.
That’s where your problem is. With you, no doesn’t really mean no. It means maybe if you screw me or give me a good enough bj, you can get your way. Never a good thing.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I know that each pregnancy is different and never assumed that just because my wife didn’t get sick at all when she was pregnant the first time doesn’t mean she wouldn’t get sick or have any other complications with a subsequent pregnancy. I just mentioned it because there was discussion about when morning sickness begins and ends and my comment was meant more as a statement of yes morning sickness start and end time may vary and then there are some pregnancies where it doesn’t occur at all.
> 
> I don’t know how to unspoil her kindly now. It’s taken years for her to get to this point.


I find the circular debate tedious, I'm tapping out.
I leave with OP, imho and others' too, it would be foolish to have another baby at this point.

Good luck to you either way.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> An ectopic pregnancy isn't viable, ever. They always end in the loss of the pregnancy since it will rupture the fallopian tube. . From the experience my wife had with this, she experienced excruciating pain well before a urine test would be positive and way before morning sickness would kick in.


Well my wife is living proof it can and does happen! Thanks for finding the correct term for that though. Sometimes words elude my silver topped head!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TinyTbone said:


> Well my wife is living proof it can and does happen! Thanks for finding the correct term for that though. Sometimes words elude my silver topped head!


As Bigdaddy says no pregnancy can be viable in a fallopian tube because the tube cant stretch and grow like the womb. Most only last a few weeks and usually the lady has to have the tube removed. If your wife is older before they had scans and most tests, it may be that they thought that but its not possibly physically.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

TinyTbone said:


> Well my wife is living proof it can and does happen! Thanks for finding the correct term for that though. Sometimes words elude my silver topped head!


Your wife is not living proof that it can and does happen. No ectopic pregnancy has ever been brought to term. Never happened.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

@CoffeeandTV hopefully the doctor ordered enough bloodwork to identify possible causes for your wife’s nausea. And full list of meds she is on (including BC) might shed light based on side effects/reactions. Anxiety, which is rather obvious, can manifest as nausea. 

She needs to stay engaged with effort to find and correct cause of the nausea. Personally would be astounded if an undiagnosed pregnancy were the cause.

What you have described as personality change taken together with more recent unexplained nausea is in my mind very concerning. I wont say what comes to my mind. If her doctor isn't successful, ask for referral to gastroenterologist and neurologist.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Your wife is not living proof that it can and does happen. No ectopic pregnancy has ever been brought to term. Never happened.


Hhhmmmm....I'm living with a monster! Lol


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> As Bigdaddy says no pregnancy can be viable in a fallopian tube because the tube cant stretch and grow like the womb. Most only last a few weeks and usually the lady has to have the tube removed. If your wife is older before they had scans and most tests, it may be that they thought that but its not possibly physically.


Great thought. I just never really gave it that deep of research. Again TAM to the rescue! Learn something new here all the time.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m feeling sick but about the other blood tests and what else besides pregnancy could be going on with her. Today I was driving home from work thinking “please, I rather her be pregnant than have a serious illness or disease.” Chances are slim that’s it’s anything very serious but she’s just never sick so this is weird. I’ve had other people in my life who seemed relatively fine and then they find out they have something serious when not expecting it. I tend to not worry a lot but medical stuff makes me a little nervous these days due to experiences with some people close to me.


Then why not attend her Dr appts, and interject when something is being left out, intentionally or unintentionally, of her story to the doctors?

Did she mention her drinking to the Dr? Did she tell her Dr how unusual and extreme her behavior has been towards you, and how shocked you are by it?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> As Bigdaddy says no pregnancy can be viable in a fallopian tube because the tube cant stretch and grow like the womb. Most only last a few weeks and usually the lady has to have the tube removed. If your wife is older before they had scans and most tests, it may be that they thought that but its not possibly physically.


Actually I learned something new. It is very, very rare, but they do survive sometimes. There have been cases where the tube ruptured, but didn't bleed enough to kill the mother and the placenta implanted on the outside of the uterus or another abdominal organ.

They are extremely rare and if detected today it will be recommended to terminate since it is a high risk to the mother.

ETA: the risk of this type of pregnancy is 1/240 for a 35yo, increases to 1/52 for a 40 year old. Just trying to stay on topic


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

PieceOfSky said:


> Then why not attend her Dr appts, and interject when something is being left out, intentionally or unintentionally, of her story to the doctors?
> 
> Did she mention her drinking to the Dr? Did she tell her Dr how unusual and extreme her behavior has been towards you, and how shocked you are by it?


Because she told him no he couldn't. Another deceptive act.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Actually I learned something new. It is very, very rare, but they do survive sometimes. There have been cases where the tube ruptured, but didn't bleed enough to kill the mother and the placenta implanted on the outside of the uterus or another abdominal organ.
> 
> They are extremely rare and if detected today it will be recommended to terminate since it is a high risk to the mother.
> 
> ETA: the risk of this type of pregnancy is 1/240 for a 35yo, increases to 1/52 for a 40 year old. Just trying to stay on topic


Yes there can be pregnancies outside the womb very occasionally next to other large organs. These days they would find that out very early on with scans etc.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I don’t know how to unspoil her kindly now. It’s taken years for her to get to this point.


You can be kind and have healthy boundaries at the same time. In fact, kindness is important and you can't have a healthy relationship without kindness.

Think about how you would want someone to treat you if you were behaving badly. You wouldn't want them to put up with your bad behavior, but you also wouldn't want them to mistreat you, even if you were mistreating them. Wouldn't you rather than someone tell you the truth out of their love for you? That's what I recommend. If she's doing or saying something that is hurtful or manipulative, tell her that what she is doing or saying is hurtful and manipulative. Don't give in to her manipulations and tell her that you feel manipulated and don't like it. It will take time, but you will develop a new, happier dynamic in your marriage.

It's much better to discuss issues as a couple and come to agreement than to try to make someone else do what you want. Manipulation has no place in a healthy marriage.

edited to clarify


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I agree, stating “no” calmly and with assertion is critical.
No reason to ever be mean about what a decision is - just state what you’ve decided. She can deal with it from there.
IF she tries to argue - simply state that you’ve made your decision and it isn’t up for arguments - then calmly walk away.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Arguing a point is often a form of manipulation. Discussions should always consider the other person as valued and loved.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Cynthia said:


> You can be kind and have healthy boundaries at the same time. In fact, kindness is important and you can't have a healthy relationship without kindness.
> 
> Think about how you would want someone to treat you if you were behaving badly. You wouldn't want them to put up with your bad behavior, but you also wouldn't want them to mistreat you, even if you were mistreating them. Wouldn't you rather than someone tell you the truth out of their love for you? That's what I recommend. If she's doing or saying something that is hurtful or manipulative, tell her that what she is doing or saying is hurtful and manipulative. Don't give in to her manipulations and tell her that you feel manipulated and don't like it. It will take time, but you will develop a new, happier dynamic in your marriage.
> 
> ...


Well manipulation does occur. It just has to be the right manipulation. 

Sorry for tj for a sec. 🤣🤣🙂🙂


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> This is somebody who absolutely loves her job and it’s a huge part of her life. She is truly going off the deep end.


Been trying to catch up, but haven't read all pages. This ^ stuck out though. Is it possible that she was already pregnant when all this talk started? That she is trying to talk you into it now, because she was already pregnant and knew you didn't want another one? Then, suddenly she'll have mixed up the dates? Check her pills. Check her phone too.

Maybe a baby.

Maybe a baby that ain't yours.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

theloveofmylife said:


> Been trying to catch up, but haven't read all pages. This ^ stuck out though. Is it possible that she was already pregnant when all this talk started? That she is trying to talk you into it now, because she was already pregnant and knew you didn't want another one? Then, suddenly she'll have mixed up the dates? Check her pills. Check her phone too.
> 
> Maybe a baby.
> 
> Maybe a baby that ain't yours.


That's a definite thought for sure!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Beach123 said:


> I agree, stating “no” calmly and with assertion is critical.
> No reason to ever be mean about what a decision is - just state what you’ve decided. She can deal with it from there.
> IF she tries to argue - simply state that you’ve made your decision and it isn’t up for arguments - then calmly walk away.


Should also calmly let her know how many lies you caught her in.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I agree, all the lies. There’s no way to have trust when someone has been lying to you.
She has purposely mad a mess of your marriage - and left the results as “what has she been trying so hard to cover up?”

I think there’s so much more that she hasn’t been telling you. None of which could be good.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> I agree, all the lies. There’s no way to have trust when someone has been lying to you.
> She has purposely mad a mess of your marriage - and left the results as “what has she been trying so hard to cover up?”
> 
> I think there’s so much more that she hasn’t been telling you. None of which could be good.


Like what? Cheating?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Doctor called today and they found a few concerning things on her blood tests. Nothing to do with mood or behavior changes but things that could point to something very bad from what I’ve researched. Trying to not freak out. She said the doctor doesn’t seem very worried but is going to have her come in to do a few more specific blood tests but wants to wait a week in case there was just something throwing her off at the time blood was drawn this week. Definitely not pregnant. Hormone and fertility related tests aren’t back yet. Yes, she had them run those too. I don’t think a baby will be a point of conversation right now while we wait to find out what is going on with her.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Doctor called today and they found a few concerning things on her blood tests. Nothing to do with mood or behavior changes but things that could point to something very bad from what I’ve researched. Trying to not freak out. She said the doctor doesn’t seem very worried but is going to have her come in to do a few more specific blood tests but wants to wait a week in case there was just something throwing her off at the time blood was drawn this week. Definitely not pregnant. Hormone and fertility related tests are back yet. Yes, she had them run those too. I don’t think a baby will be a point of conversation right now while we wait to find out what is going on with her.


Whatever the other outcome, I hope things don't take a seriously bad turn with medical issues. Good luck there.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Your wife is not living proof that it can and does happen. No ectopic pregnancy has ever been brought to term. Never happened.


This is a threadjack.

Plus, you are wrong. Some ectopic pregnancies have been brought to term.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Doctor called today and they found a few concerning things on her blood tests. Nothing to do with mood or behavior changes but things that could point to something very bad from what I’ve researched. Trying to not freak out. She said the doctor doesn’t seem very worried but is going to have her come in to do a few more specific blood tests but wants to wait a week in case there was just something throwing her off at the time blood was drawn this week. Definitely not pregnant. Hormone and fertility related tests aren’t back yet. Yes, she had them run those too. I don’t think a baby will be a point of conversation right now while we wait to find out what is going on with her.


Glad to hear your wife isn't pregnant, that she didn't trick you. I hope it turns out to be nothing on the medical end but yes there are some concerning things it could be.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> This is a threadjack.
> 
> Plus, you are wrong. Some ectopic pregnancies have been brought to term.


I in 3 million.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

What tests have they ordered to drill down on it? Are they sending her to a rheumatologist or a different kind of doctor?

I've had scares before where they sent me to make sure I didn't have Lupus and that sort of thing but nothing ever showed up.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> What tests have they ordered to drill down on it? Are they sending her to a rheumatologist or a different kind of doctor?
> 
> I've had scares before where they sent me to make sure I didn't have Lupus and that sort of thing but nothing ever showed up.


Her doctor (internal medicine, it was not a gyn that she saw this week) wants to re-run standard CBC to see if it was just a fluke this time. They’re also going to run a few specialized tests and if things aren’t normal the next step could be a biopsy. Electrophoresis and serum tests. The doctor says people have flukes on blood work all the time and to not start to worry. That’s much easier said than done.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

She’s planning her funeral now.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> @CoffeeandTV hopefully the doctor ordered enough bloodwork to identify possible causes for your wife’s nausea. And full list of meds she is on (including BC) might shed light based on side effects/reactions. Anxiety, which is rather obvious, can manifest as nausea.
> 
> She needs to stay engaged with effort to find and correct cause of the nausea. Personally would be astounded if an undiagnosed pregnancy were the cause.
> 
> What you have described as personality change taken together with more recent unexplained nausea is in my mind very concerning. I wont say what comes to my mind. If her doctor isn't successful, ask for referral to gastroenterologist and neurologist.


Would be happy right now if it was just pregnancy, even if I was tricked into it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Her doctor (internal medicine, it was not a gyn that she saw this week) wants to re-run standard CBC to see if it was just a fluke this time. They’re also going to run a few specialized tests and if things aren’t normal the next step could be a biopsy. Electrophoresis and serum tests. The doctor says people have flukes on blood work all the time and to not start to worry. That’s much easier said than done.


Biopsy, of what?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Hopefully they'll get her sorted out. You know she's been throwing up and that can mess up your white / red blood cell counts. I have had two scares but sounds like a different thing. One was a cancer scare but I got thoroughly vetted and it was just a fluke and so was the thing that shows up that can be a lupus marker. 

But what worries me is that she has been throwing up and it could be stress but they should be able to figure out why she's throwing up.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Hopefully they'll get her sorted out. You know she's been throwing up and that can mess up your white / red blood cell counts. I have had two scares but sounds like a different thing. One was a cancer scare but I got thoroughly vetted and it was just a fluke and so was the thing that shows up that can be a lupus marker.
> 
> But what worries me is that she has been throwing up and it could be stress but they should be able to figure out why she's throwing up.


Nausea came up as one of the top symptoms of the possible illness she could have. Again, just trying it to worry but yes I was very worried when I saw it listed a symptom.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Jimi007 said:


> I forgot.. Dark Shadows


No one forces you to read the thread. You are being quite rude and I'm fairly sure breaking the forum rules.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Nausea came up as one of the top symptoms of the possible illness she could have. Again, just trying it to worry but yes I was very worried when I saw it listed a symptom.


What is the possible illness she could have?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Nausea came up as one of the top symptoms of the possible illness she could have. Again, just trying it to worry but yes I was very worried when I saw it listed a symptom.


Vomiting is a symptom of a million things. Why not just say what you’re worried she might have,?


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

CoffeeandTV said:


> wants to re-run standard CBC to see if it was just a fluke this time.


Unless they detected too many immature lymphocytes, promyelocytes, erythrocytes or one of the RBC indexes too low or too high, then I wouldn't worry. 

If it is just high lymphocytes, then is just a sign of an infection.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She’s planning her funeral now.


Please tell me you aren't serious.


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> My wife and I love each other very much. I count myself lucky to be in a relationship with the same woman for 25 years and to still be instantly turned on by the thought of her. I think it’s safe to say she’s still very attracted to me too and genuinely enjoys having sex with me. One of the main ways she shows love and appreciation for me is through enthusiastic, mutually satisfying sex because that’s something that’s very important to me and makes me feel loved and appreciated. She also shows her love through many other non-sexual means. I like to pleasure her too as well as show my love for her through acts of service because I know that’s what really makes her feel loved and appreciated by me.
> 
> I’m not going to make a decision about a baby based on a great blowjob. I just said she almost had me wanting to say “yes!” She’s very skilled in the art of the blowjob and tells me that it’s one of her favorite things to do. If it had been 20 years since she last gave me one then I’d be more suspicious. Although they weren’t happening for the last 3 months, blowjobs aren’t out of the ordinary and no she doesn’t just do it when she wants something from me in return.
> 
> ...


If she dont put out, kick her out


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Biopsy, of what?


This got awful specific. When a dr says they want to do a biopsy of a mass or atypical tissue presenting, standard steps *to get to that point* usually, translate always, includes:

1. Multiple dr visits on same issue already.
2. Ultrasound.
3. Xray.
4. CAT scan or MRI of mass/area, usually a couple. With and without contrast.
5. Dr visits to primary care AND specialist

Which takes a couple weeks at best unless it's so bad all is done at once in hospital. But if that happened you'd know so much more.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Her doctor (internal medicine, it was not a gyn that she saw this week) wants to re-run standard CBC to see if it was just a fluke this time. They’re also going to run a few specialized tests and if things aren’t normal the next step could be a biopsy. Electrophoresis and serum tests. The doctor says people have flukes on blood work all the time and to not start to worry. That’s much easier said than done.


This got awful specific. When a dr says they want to do a biopsy of a mass or atypical tissue presenting, standard steps *to get to that point* usually, translate always, includes:

1. Multiple dr visits on same issue already.
2. Ultrasound.
3. Xray.
4. CAT scan or MRI of mass/area, usually a couple. With and without contrast.
5. Dr visits to primary care AND specialist

Which takes a couple weeks at best unless it's so bad all is done at once in hospital. But if that happened you'd know so much more.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Nausea came up as one of the top symptoms of the possible illness she could have. Again, just trying it to worry but yes I was very worried when I saw it listed a symptom.


I will just say that reading internet disease descriptions is frightening in general. Know where you are with the worries though, have been there for wife n I several times. When you say internal medicine, assume that is a "GP". It's going to take some more detailed testing and imaging and review by appropriate* specialists* before any biopsy is done. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

*The part I don't get are biopsy and electrophoresis out of a CBC?* It doesn't gel? Electrophoresis, is done to separate proteins, DNA and RNA. If the CBC revealed a low Hemoglobin, or abnormal RBCs such as sickle cell, I could see electrophoresis on the gamma globulins, other than that is ???? a Biopsy need will not be determined by a CBC, nor high count of abnormal or immature WBC in the blood sample. A bone marrow draw to rule out a leukemia would be the route.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Rob_1 said:


> *The part I don't get are biopsy and electrophoresis out of a CBC?* It doesn't gel? Electrophoresis, is done to separate proteins, DNA and RNA. If the CBC revealed a low Hemoglobin, or abnormal RBCs such as sickle cell, I could see electrophoresis on the gamma globulins, other than that is ???? a Biopsy need will not be determined by a CBC, nor high count of abnormal or immature WBC in the blood sample. A bone marrow draw to rule out a leukemia would be the route.


Some GPs can get out of their depth.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Doctor called today and they found a few concerning things on her blood tests. Nothing to do with mood or behavior changes but things that could point to something very bad from what I’ve researched. Trying to not freak out. She said the doctor doesn’t seem very worried but is going to have her come in to do a few more specific blood tests but wants to wait a week in case there was just something throwing her off at the time blood was drawn this week. Definitely not pregnant. Hormone and fertility related tests aren’t back yet. Yes, she had them run those too. I don’t think a baby will be a point of conversation right now while we wait to find out what is going on with her.



Try not to Google all the gazillions of possibilities. Leave it to the professionals. No point worrying yourself for nothing.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> Try not to Google all the gazillions of possibilities. Leave it to the professionals. No point worrying yourself for nothing.


Agree. When my daughter was a teenager, she googled symptoms and was convinced she had luekemia. I gave her an iron supplement and she was cured. I explained that anemia has a lot of the same symptoms as luekemia. Poor kid was afraid she was doomed.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

@CoffeeandTV how are things ATM? How are both yourself and your wife? I hope all is ok.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Prayers for your wife and you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Rob_1 said:


> *The part I don't get are biopsy and electrophoresis out of a CBC?* It doesn't gel? Electrophoresis, is done to separate proteins, DNA and RNA. If the CBC revealed a low Hemoglobin, or abnormal RBCs such as sickle cell, I could see electrophoresis on the gamma globulins, other than that is ???? a Biopsy need will not be determined by a CBC, nor high count of abnormal or immature WBC in the blood sample. A bone marrow draw to rule out a leukemia would be the route.


Gamma goblins????😉


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Try not to Google all the gazillions of possibilities. Leave it to the professionals. No point worrying yourself for nothing.


Depends. If you understand how Google works, that it shows results that people find themselves drawn to, you realize that Google unintentionally emphasizes worst-case scenarios. It remains a very good tool, primarily post-diagnosis.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Casual Observer said:


> Depends. If you understand how Google works, that it shows results that people find themselves drawn to, you realize that* Google unintentionally emphasizes worst-case scenarios*. It remains a very good tool, primarily post-diagnosis.


If you read the answers to the most common questions, yes. The trick is not to stop at those and to research the subject properly. But that requires skills, and some people just stop after the first few hits.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Your wife is not living proof that it can and does happen. No ectopic pregnancy has ever been brought to term. Never happened.


That's not true. But they are very, very rare.

Please can everyone stop these pointless threadjacks about this, that and the other?

They are not helpful to the OP or his situation.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

CountryMike said:


> This got awful specific. When a dr says they want to do a biopsy of a mass or atypical tissue presenting, standard steps *to get to that point* usually, translate always, includes:
> 
> 1. Multiple dr visits on same issue already.
> 2. Ultrasound.
> ...


Not the first time someone I know has gone through this sort of process, had biopsies, etc.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> @CoffeeandTV how are things ATM? How are both yourself and your wife? I hope all is ok.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


Everything’s okay right now. She’s shaken and trying to focus on other things but the wait until more testing next week is difficult. She’s convinced she must have cancer. Nothing rational that I try to say is even registering with her. It was just one blood test. No, she’s not acting this way for attention. She forbid me from mentioning anything about it to anyone, especially our son and her parents. She doesn’t want anyone to worry. She’s spending a lot of time googling and crying.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> If you read the answers to the most common questions, yes. The trick is not to stop at those and to research the subject properly. But that requires skills, and some people just stop after the first few hits.


I typically look at research studies and peer reviewed articles from reputable sources.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> If you read the answers to the most common questions, yes. The trick is not to stop at those and to research the subject properly. But that requires skills, and some people just stop after the first few hits.


I typically look at research studies and peer reviewed articles from reputable sources.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Everything’s okay right now. She’s shaken and trying to focus on other things but the wait until more testing next week is difficult. She’s convinced she must have cancer. Nothing rational that I try to say is even registering with her. It was just one blood test. No, she’s not acting this way for attention. She forbid me from mentioning anything about it to anyone, especially our son and her parents. She doesn’t want anyone to worry. She’s spending a lot of time googling and crying.


The worst thing she can do is to constantly be googling what she may or may not have. I guess some people do think the worst but there are many others things it could be that are easily treatable.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Cynthia said:


> Agree. When my daughter was a teenager, she googled symptoms and was convinced she had luekemia. I gave her an iron supplement and she was cured. I explained that anemia has a lot of the same symptoms as luekemia. Poor kid was afraid she was doomed.


Dr. Google can diagnose anyone with just about anything if you try hard enough. This isn’t a matter of that. Realistically she is fine and this was just a fluke on the blood test and nothing more to worry about. However, it can also be an indicator of something more serious. The doctor is doing her due diligence by ordering some more tests to figure out how to proceed. She’s doing her job. However, arguably when a doctor says they want to do follow up tests due to something on your blood test and they tell you why, then it gives you a reason to be a bit concerned no matter what your rational mind tries to tell you.

The doctor is not saying that a biopsy is in order tomorrow; however, if all tests point in one direction and no other cause can be determined, next step would be an appointment with a specialist and a biopsy would be needed to confirm.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> The worst thing she can do is to constantly be googling what she may or may not have. I guess some people do think the worst but there are many others things it could be that are easily treatable.


I know, but there’s no telling her that right now.

I have been Googling it too but not to the point where it’s taking over my entire day. There’s a balance and it is good to be knowledgeable so you can advocate for yourself or a loved one. I have learned sometimes you do need to do your own research and sometimes you really need to grill and push doctors. It’s sad but true. I will never blindly trust a doctor again in my life. I trust them and will not just make up my own treatment plans or anything like that, but I will also be doing my own research so that I know the best questions to ask.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

A biopsy of what?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> A biopsy of what?


Bone marrow.

I know it’s stupid and this is anonymous but I don’t really want to share a lot of her personal medical info on a public forum right now, just doesn’t really feel right. Maybe I’m just scared that saying to much about it will make it come true. For the most part I have moved on to trying to not think about it or research it any more until further testing is done.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

So when do you next expect to hear more from the doctor about the results?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

She goes back in to have more blood tests this week.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

@CoffeeandTV - I'll weigh in here as a blood cancer survivor. I certainly don't expect you to tell me if I'm right or wrong, but I'm just sharing my personal experience. In adults, the most common blood cancer is CLL (Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia). She may have anemia and nothing more. But as a survivor of CLL (first diagnosed December 2007), I can tell you that almost 15 years out from my initial diagnosis, I'm just fine. If you have any questions for me, just send me a PM. If not, that's okay. But please be assured that in today's world blood cancers are not a death sentence. I know plenty of long-term survivors. We're all doing fine.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Prodigal said:


> @CoffeeandTV - I'll weigh in here as a blood cancer survivor. I certainly don't expect you to tell me if I'm right or wrong, but I'm just sharing my personal experience. In adults, the most common blood cancer is CLL (Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia). She may have anemia and nothing more. But as a survivor of CLL (first diagnosed December 2007), I can tell you that almost 15 years out from my initial diagnosis, I'm just fine. If you have any questions for me, just send me a PM. If not, that's okay. But please be assured that in today's world blood cancers are not a death sentence. I know plenty of long-term survivors. We're all doing fine.


Occasionally, I check on where treatment options currently are. Just in the last ten years there have been very effective new options with more in trial and more in the pipeline. That applies to cancers across the board. It’s a very, very hopeful time.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Continued good health to both of you! That's inspiring.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Please know sir, that my prayers will be with your wife and you! No what odd, or goofy things any of us say, I genuinely feel no one here wishes I'll upon you and your spouse. Be at peace and I will stay out of the picture till you know how life is going to be.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

It's going to be fine. This type thing has happened to me twice. I am one of those 5% who has anomalies.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Yes it’ll all be fine, hopefully. Thanks for the well wishes. I just don’t think either of us was expecting anything to show up on any routine test. 

She’s so nervous she can barely eat. Not even me taking the stupid fertility test she bought made her happy. I decided I was a little curious, why not? Asked her if she wanted to help. No. Well I did it anyway to entertain myself. I’ve now had the pleasure of viewing extremely magnified pictures of my own sperm and learned that not only do I have an optimal sperm count, but the % of mobile sperm falls with optimal range as well. Everything I read online says that at-home male fertility tests are very limited and you really need to get tested in a lab to get much useful information, and truthfully I’d trust those results a lot more, but hey I’m ok with just smiling and nodding over what the at-home test says.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Yes it’ll all be fine, hopefully. Thanks for the well wishes. I just don’t think either of us was expecting anything to show up on any routine test.
> 
> She’s so nervous she can barely eat. Not even me taking the stupid fertility test she bought made her happy. I decided I was a little curious, why not? Asked her if she wanted to help. No. Well I did it anyway to entertain myself. I’ve now had the pleasure of viewing extremely magnified pictures of my own sperm and learned that not only do I have an optimal sperm count, but the % of mobile sperm falls with optimal range as well. Everything I read online says that at-home male fertility tests are very limited and you really need to get tested in a lab to get much useful information, and truthfully I’d trust those results a lot more, but hey I’m ok with just smiling and nodding over what the at-home test says.


And headed to get a vasectomy now that you know they're roamers?

It will be a relief once she is tested out. I waited a long time on my cancer scare before I could go to the hospital and get the thorough exam and then after that, the urologist scope thing. I had put it out of my conscious mind and just lived my life, but once the final report was back, I felt a huge weight I didn't even know I had lift off of me. I really buried the worry.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> And headed to get a vasectomy now that you know they're roamers?
> 
> It will be a relief once she is tested out. I waited a long time on my cancer scare before I could go to the hospital and get the thorough exam and then after that, the urologist scope thing. I had put it out of my conscious mind and just lived my life, but once the final report was back, I felt a huge weight I didn't even know I had lift off of me. I really buried the worry.


Who knows? I’ve found myself making all sorts of bargains in my mind like “if she’s completely fine and healthy I’ll give her the baby she wants, he’ll I’ll give her 2 babies!” I don’t think I really mean it but if a magical being appeared to me right now and gave me that option I’d take it.

She is a worrier and can’t bury it no matter how hard she tries. I know she doesn’t want to be thinking about it 24/7. The same thing happens when there’s something going on with a relative or a pet. She gets so nervous and anxious that she makes herself sick. I am normally a burrier or a “just keep my head down and make the best of the situation until we have more info.”


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Who knows? I’ve found myself making all sorts of bargains in my mind like “if she’s completely fine and healthy I’ll give her the baby she wants, he’ll I’ll give her 2 babies!” I don’t think I really mean it but if a magical being appeared to me right now and gave me that option I’d take it.
> 
> She is a worrier and can’t bury it no matter how hard she tries. I know she doesn’t want to be thinking about it 24/7. The same thing happens when there’s something going on with a relative or a pet. She gets so nervous and anxious that she makes herself sick. I am normally a burrier or a “just keep my head down and make the best of the situation until we have more info.”


It wouldn't be a good idea. Those markers are showing up. Even if nothing has developed, something could down the road. They will have to keep an eye on it. Not a good time to get pregnant. Five years from now, something could develop that the immune system was pushing back on right now. Or the pregnancy itself could weaken her and set something in motion. 

I have a friend who got diabetes just from having her child at 38. Wasn't diabetic before.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It wouldn't be a good idea. Those markers are showing up. Even if nothing has developed, something could down the road. They will have to keep an eye on it. Not a good time to get pregnant. Five years from now, something could develop that the immune system was pushing back on right now. Or the pregnancy itself could weaken her and set something in motion.
> 
> I have a friend who got diabetes just from having her child at 38. Wasn't diabetic before.


She’s saying the same thing now. If she’s not dying then she’s at least now feeling like she’s 40s, she’s old, and chances of her being diagnosed with any disease are now much greater than when she was 20. I don’t think of her as old at all, those are just her words. So if she wasn’t already incredibly nervous about her health now, she’s also dealing with how sad she is about feeling old and about not having a baby because she is either sick or, in her mind, could easily become sick when the eventual child would still be very young.

She ran a charity 5K today though and kicked butt and did just fine so I don’t think she’s about to keel over any time soon.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She’s saying the same thing now. If she’s not dying then she’s at least now feeling like she’s 40s, she’s old, and chances of her being diagnosed with any disease are now much greater than when she was 20. I don’t think of her as old at all, those are just her words. So if she wasn’t already incredibly nervous about her health now, she’s also dealing with how sad she is about feeling old and about not having a baby because she is either sick or, in her mind, could easily become sick when the eventual child would still be very young.
> 
> She ran a charity 5K today though and kicked butt and did just fine so I don’t think she’s about to keel over any time soon.


Sounds pretty healthy to me! Is she still being sick? 
Is she usually a 'glass half empty' person?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Sounds pretty healthy to me! Is she still being sick?
> Is she usually a 'glass half empty' person?


The last time that she threw up, that I know of, was on Thursday.

Shes usually a glass half full person, but she was not expecting this and I think getting a weird test result at the same time she’s been dealing with these feeling of getting old and dare I say a “midlife crisis,” it has really thrown her for a loop.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

How long for any of the results? The waiting is the worst part.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> If she’s not dying then she’s at least now feeling like she’s 40s, she’s old, and chances of her being diagnosed with any disease


Tomorrow is never promised, even when in our 20s. Live each day as if it were our last. Because it could be. We have known more than one man who left for work in the morning who never came home.

Both of you would do well to contemplate mortality when tempted to engage in heated combat. 

My wife is nearing twice your wife’s age, and not without health issues. Both of us have had the “big C”. She is a happy person who would tell your wife “age is just a number”. 

We would be ecstatic to be in our forties again. Your wifes glass is full!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Any test updates? When do you expect them?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Any test updates? When do you expect them?


All tests have come back fine but she still doesn’t feel 100% right. The doctors feel they’ve run all tests that make sense to run and that it’s probably anxiety related.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> All tests have come back fine but she still doesn’t feel 100% right. The doctors feel they’ve run all tests that make sense to run and that it’s probably anxiety related.


Anxiety can make people sick. I've seen that frequently.
How is your relationship? Have things improved? Has your wife let go of the idea of having another baby or is that issue resolved?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Cynthia said:


> Anxiety can make people sick. I've seen that frequently.
> How is your relationship? Have things improved? Has your wife let go of the idea of having another baby or is that issue resolved?


She is working on addressing the anxiety now, but still obviously worried and not completely convinced.

Things have definitely improved or gone more back to normal as far as our relationship goes. I’m sorry that it took a major medical scare to do it. Sex has been pretty nonexistent, but not because she was intentionally withholding it. She was just so sick with worry that there was absolutely no interest in sex. I’m not complaining. I understood and knew it would likely be temporary, so I just dealt with it. She has just started to sort of open back up sexually but I can tell her mind is still frequently preoccupied about what could be going wrong with her health. There’s been absolutely no crazy baby fever since the health stuff started. Recently I asked her if she wanted to talk about it again, if she can remain sane about it. I don’t know how, but somewhere along the way of waiting for all of these test results and after she finally shut up about babies is when I started thinking about it more and thinking it wouldn’t be so bad, that it might actually be something I’d want to do again for some inane reason. She was happy at first, eyes all lit up and “really?!” Like she couldn’t believe I was suggesting it out of my own free will. Then she quickly changed her tune, she wants to but doesn’t feel like it’s a good idea anymore since she’s still scared about her health and it’s made her feel “old.”


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She is working on addressing the anxiety now, but still obviously worried and not completely convinced.
> 
> Things have definitely improved or gone more back to normal as far as our relationship goes. I’m sorry that it took a major medical scare to do it. Sex has been pretty nonexistent, but not because she was intentionally withholding it. She was just so sick with worry that there was absolutely no interest in sex. I’m not complaining. I understood and knew it would likely be temporary, so I just dealt with it. She has just started to sort of open back up sexually but I can tell her mind is still frequently preoccupied about what could be going wrong with her health. There’s been absolutely no crazy baby fever since the health stuff started. Recently I asked her if she wanted to talk about it again, if she can remain sane about it. I don’t know how, but somewhere along the way of waiting for all of these test results and after she finally shut up about babies is when I started thinking about it more and thinking it wouldn’t be so bad, that it might actually be something I’d want to do again for some inane reason. She was happy at first, eyes all lit up and “really?!” Like she couldn’t believe I was suggesting it out of my own free will. Then she quickly changed her tune, she wants to but doesn’t feel like it’s a good idea anymore since she’s still scared about her health and it’s made her feel “old.”


I was just thinking about your wife today and hoping nothing horrible had happened with her tests. Thanks for updating us! I'm glad she's okay. But it sounds like your wife has almost lost her "spark" for lack of a better word. I hope she gets back to feeling like herself (her sane, mature self, not the crazy, immature version you saw over the last few months). If you really do feel like expanding your family with her, I'm sure she will be thrilled, once the fear of this health scare dies down.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CoffeeandTV said:


> that it might actually be something I’d want to do again for some inane reason.


You mean "insane" reason...


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> All tests have come back fine but she still doesn’t feel 100% right. The doctors feel they’ve run all tests that make sense to run and that it’s probably anxiety related.


I thought the problematic numbers were blood test numbers related to what bone marrow makes. If so, did those numbers improve? If not, can the doctors explain how anxiety would have anything to do with those numbers?

For whatever reason, anxiety seems to be blamed for a lot of problems these days and then drugs prescribed to treat the anxiety. FWIW, we have relatives and friends where those drugs caused more problems than they solved.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

What a relief that must be for you both. BTW did she test herself for covid? That can cause sickness and nausea and make you feel rough for a while.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

The good old days, when folks would get a script for valium for a couple months, chill, reset, and be good to go. A little facetious but some not. Too much can be blamed on well I feel bad about myself......


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> I thought the problematic numbers were blood test numbers related to what bone marrow makes. If so, did those numbers improve? If not, can the doctors explain how anxiety would have anything to do with those numbers?
> 
> For whatever reason, anxiety seems to be blamed for a lot of problems these days and then drugs prescribed to treat the anxiety. FWIW, we have relatives and friends where those drugs caused more problems than they solved.


Yeah, she had some abnormal results on blood tests and the combination of the abnormal results was very concerning and pointed toward possible cancer. Further, more specific testing was “normal.” 

I’m referring more the the physical symptoms of her nausea and vomiting, along with some other physical symptoms she developed. Once the blood tests came back the doctors did a few more tests but couldn’t find anything to explain her physical symptoms. Obviously vomiting can be a symptom of about 1000 different things so it’s not like they tested her for every possible ailment, but they’re satisfied that she doesn’t have anything fatal or anything completely physical that they can treat in that sense. She continues to vomit occasionally and often says she feels “off” so there’s still a worry there but she’s trying to trust the doctors and work on the anxiety since that’s what they’re now sure that it is and nothing more.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> What a relief that must be for you both. BTW did she test herself for covid? That can cause sickness and nausea and make you feel rough for a while.


She took several COVID tests because her chest felt tight and she thought maybe that was to blame, but never got a positive. She’s been around a lot of new people and large groups with her job this summer too and I’m shocked she didn’t get it.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Melinda82 said:


> I was just thinking about your wife today and hoping nothing horrible had happened with her tests. Thanks for updating us! I'm glad she's okay. But it sounds like your wife has almost lost her "spark" for lack of a better word. I hope she gets back to feeling like herself (her sane, mature self, not the crazy, immature version you saw over the last few months). If you really do feel like expanding your family with her, I'm sure she will be thrilled, once the fear of this health scare dies down.


The health scare has definitely affected her. She was getting so lightheaded at times that she didn’t even want to go to the store by herself in fear she’d have a medical emergency in the frozen section and be rushed to the hospital all alone. This is not like her at all. She seems to slowly be getting better but I’d definitely say her normal spark is still missing. She’s normally a fun loving person with a very busy calendar, always involved in something and constant things to do, places to go, and people to see. That’s all stopped lately.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> You mean "insane" reason...


That too.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

It seems obvious all along that your wife is having some mental problems. I hope you get a correct diagnosis and it gets fixed.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She took several COVID tests because her chest felt tight and she thought maybe that was to blame, but never got a positive. She’s been around a lot of new people and large groups with her job this summer too and I’m shocked she didn’t get it.


Will just say a negative, especially from at home test, can easily be a false one. We had it, and knew what it was because we had it once before. Dr office test showed negative for me and positive for wife. 

But, your wife has been vomiting way too long for it to be from Covid.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Well I do hope it is just stress and anxiety but often times things are overlooked. So I wouldn't just ignore it if it keeps happening.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Yeah and then there are women who don’t have any sickness at all for the duration of their pregnancy, as was the case with my wife. Nothing is completely textbook.


When my cousin's wife was pregnant, he was the one with morning sickness, not her.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> It seems obvious all along that your wife is having some mental problems. I hope you get a correct diagnosis and it gets fixed.


Anxiety yes, I can believe. I don’t believe she has any “mental problems.”


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Anxiety yes, I can believe. I don’t believe she has any “mental problems.”


Not trying to throw shade on your wife. But her mental state, whether anxiety or otherwise, is greatly affecting both your lives and even her health. Apparently vomiting, panic attacks, zero sex drive, suddenly wanting a baby, etc etc…
These are all related to her mental state and that’s all I mean. She may (I hope not) be developing a real case of mental illness which is not uncommon at her age.


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## DaringGreatly (7 mo ago)

Thanks for the update coffee. I'm glad things have settled somewhat. 
Did the doctors rule out perimenopause?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DaringGreatly said:


> Thanks for the update coffee. I'm glad things have settled somewhat.
> Did the doctors rule out perimenopause?


Isn't everyone at age almost 41 kinda in perimenopause?


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## DaringGreatly (7 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Isn't everyone at age almost 41 kinda in perimenopause?


Not necessarily. I had my second child at 41. I didn't experience any noticeable symptoms til 44. It varies so much from women to women. 
It is often misdiagnosed as 'mental health issues' especially in women who experience severe symptoms at a younger age. Even at 44 my doctor told me I was 'too young' and I had to fight for almost 3 years to get appropriate treatment after turning down antidepressants.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Hey, it's good to know the tests show nothing significant. As to her nausea, more likely anxiety. My daughter has issues with anxiety and does get nauseous and vomit because of the crazy ness inside. A kind hand a big heart will help her come back to herself in time. She may just need extra does of affection and love from you and the family to find home again. Right now, the mind movies of her life are rolling. She's probably going through a mental reboot and trying figure out what all her life to date has meant and where it's all going. Be that rock of stability she needs. It's a big thing to suddenly face our mortality. We all know the days coming, but cope with it as a long distance thing. To suddenly have to possibly face it sooner, well it can be overwhelming.
Peace be unto you both.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> Not trying to throw shade on your wife. But her mental state, whether anxiety or otherwise, is greatly affecting both your lives and even her health. Apparently vomiting, panic attacks, zero sex drive, suddenly wanting a baby, etc etc…
> These are all related to her mental state and that’s all I mean. She may (I hope not) be developing a real case of mental illness which is not uncommon at her age.


Understood. She never had zero sex drive though, not until the health scare happened.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

DaringGreatly said:


> Thanks for the update coffee. I'm glad things have settled somewhat.
> Did the doctors rule out perimenopause?


Hormone tests were run and everything looked normal. Also remember that even before the tests related to her physical problems and potential health issue, she also asked to have some fertility related tests run. Supposedly everything looks “normal” and her doctor says that it could be very possible that she could conceive (no guarantee, but no obvious signs that we wouldn’t be able to conceive either). After the abnormal blood tests, additional testing including hormone testing was done. Her doctors said fluctuating hormones can cause some of her physical symptoms she’s been having but it’s hard to pin some of it down because hormones are constantly fluctuating during the cycle. They advised that if we aren’t planning to have more children that she may want to consider getting off birth control for several health related reasons and looking into something more permanent.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

TinyTbone said:


> Hey, it's good to know the tests show nothing significant. As to her nausea, more likely anxiety. My daughter has issues with anxiety and does get nauseous and vomit because of the crazy ness inside. A kind hand a big heart will help her come back to herself in time. She may just need extra does of affection and love from you and the family to find home again. Right now, the mind movies of her life are rolling. She's probably going through a mental reboot and trying figure out what all her life to date has meant and where it's all going. Be that rock of stability she needs. It's a big thing to suddenly face our mortality. We all know the days coming, but cope with it as a long distance thing. To suddenly have to possibly face it sooner, well it can be overwhelming.
> Peace be unto you both.


I think with the anxiety issue, if that’s what it is, it’s become a vicious circle. The more worried about her health she gets, the more anxiety she has, the more physical symptoms she starts to feel, she becomes even more worried, and it goes around and around.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> She took several COVID tests because her chest felt tight and she thought maybe that was to blame, but never got a positive. She’s been around a lot of new people and large groups with her job this summer too and I’m shocked she didn’t get it.


Tightness in the chest can also be from anxiety. I'm not medical professional. I used to suffer from anxiety and know several other people who do. It is likely that her doctors are right. If she is able to resolve the anxiety, she will probably be just fine physcially as well. Our mental state impacts our physical state and vice versa.


CoffeeandTV said:


> I think with the anxiety issue, if that’s what it is, it’s become a vicious circle. The more worried about her health she gets, the more anxiety she has, the more physical symptoms she starts to feel, she becomes even more worried, and it goes around and around.


Yes, it can be a viscious cycle. Overcoming anxiety can be very difficult, but if she can find the root and deal with it, she may get better. Cognitive behavior therapy can be helpful for anxiety.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

She does need to see a psychologist. Glad it's nothing life threatening.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Crazy is as crazy does. You two deserve each other.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I think with the anxiety issue, if that’s what it is, it’s become a vicious circle. The more worried about her health she gets, the more anxiety she has, the more physical symptoms she starts to feel, she becomes even more worried, and it goes around and around.


Indeed. I call it spin cycling! I do it as well. ADHD and possibly bipolar.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Understood. She never had zero sex drive though, not until the health scare happened.


Squaring off with mortality can tend to that. Ask combat vets.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> Crazy is as crazy does. You two deserve each other.


I’m not sure I see what’s so crazy about any of it.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

CoffeeandTV said:


> I’m not sure I see what’s so crazy about any of it.


Is your wife still refusing to share sex with you (of course exempting the times she does)?


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Personal said:


> Is your wife still refusing to share sex with you (of course exempting the times she does)?


No, she’s not refusing anymore. We had sex today in fact. The health scare affected her sex drive and she was just too affected by that to have any interest in sex for a few weeks. Sex didn’t even cross her mind. She got to the point where she could barely function, convinced she was dying. She’s snapping out of that now but still not completely 100% back to her old self.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Really great to hear she is doing better. Hope she continues to improve and that you figure what is going on.

My wife and two kids had Covid last week. They were given a shot of steroid and pretty much better in a few days. My youngest and I never got it this time.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

Book recommendation for your wife OP:

Peace from nervous suffering by Dr Claire Weeks

My mother went through a similar bout and it helped her a lot.


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## CoffeeandTV (5 mo ago)

Quad73 said:


> Book recommendation for your wife OP:
> 
> Peace from nervous suffering by Dr Claire Weeks
> 
> My mother went through a similar bout and it helped her a lot.


Thanks, I’ll pass the suggestion on to her.

For now she doesn’t want to be in any meds. She’s taking some supplements and got these anti-anxiety patches, is doing mindful breathing, other new age stuff. Whatever, if it makes her feel better that’s fine with me. I hope she will consider medication if these other things don’t quite do the trick.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

CoffeeandTV said:


> Thanks, I’ll pass the suggestion on to her.
> 
> For now she doesn’t want to be in any meds. She’s taking some supplements and got these anti-anxiety patches, is doing mindful breathing, other new age stuff. Whatever, if it makes her feel better that’s fine with me. I hope she will consider medication if these other things don’t quite do the trick.


Breathing properly is a #1 priority with anxiety. Don't be too dismissive of all of it, anxiety's a mental health issue that requires mental and physical recalibration to fix. Age old solutions vs drugs, she's on the right path. If she gets it right, breathing techniques and some supplements will help her for life, vs medication covering the problem and leading to side effects - like complete loss of sex drive. Careful what you hope for, and support her efforts in every way you can.


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