# Toxicity more interesting?



## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

Feeling glum that no-one had any thoughts about incompatibility () so I'll try another tack. OH just had a heart to heart with me this week which amounted to 'our relationship's toxic.....' . So, much pain and angst later I google toxic relationships & lo & behold much of what I read seems to me to relate just as much if not more, to him as to me. So anyone any thoughts about whether toxic relationships exist, if one or both partners are the toxin, and if they can be resolved without separation?


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I was reading today the healthy people are only attracted to other healthy people. Unhealthy people will usually seek out other unhealthy people, either because they feel unworthy of healthy relationships, or because they have unresolved issues in their past (ex., had a controlling mother, so you marry a controlling woman because that's what you see as normal, or cheating/drunken father leads to same in a husband, etc...)

If you think there is something wrong with your H, why did you marry him?

The solution is to work on yourself first. Then - once you become a more healthy person - you can begin to examine what you truly want, what your boundaries are, and whether or not your relationship is worth saving. 

And hopefully, if your spouse sees you putting in the work and doing positive things, they'll follow.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Toxic relationships unquestionably exist. They are fundamentally unhealthy and unsustainable for both parties - but one, or both, simply refuse to call it quits. 

Seen the video for "Love the Way You Lie" by Eminem? That's a toxic relationship. It's quasi-autobiographical based upon his own relationship with his ex-wife Kimberly.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

But is it the "relationship" that's toxic, or the people? Its the violent man who has found the girl who thinks that violence is normal, or else that she doesn't deserve any better.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

And your original question was about compatibility - these two people are COMPLETELY compatible! Keeping with Eminem, a strong, healthy woman with high self esteem wouldn't marry an angry, violent husband.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I still firmly believe that 'balanced' love is a rare thing. We simply delude ourselves a little bit that all is well and healthy.

I don't think it requires two unbalanced people. My best friend was in a toxic relationship prior to meeting his wife. These were two, smart, sensible, very likable people. But, when combined they were nitro glycerin
They had passionate fireworks right out of the gate, that quickly devolved into arguments, fighting, and bizarre behavior. 

Relationship drew to a close when my friend was forced to take out a restraining order against her after she attacked him, punching him, scratching him - I'm talking wildcat. He jacked her up against a wall by her throat and threatened to kill her if she didn't calm down.

This took place in front of a room full of people mind you.

I had never seen, and have never since seen anything even remotely close to that kind of behavior from my friend. Their relationship was often talked about by the common group of friends. Neither had ever exhibited anything like the manic behavior that was the result of their tempestuous involvement.

I think there is a fine line between toxic and dysfunctional where relationships are concerned. 

For instance, I believe that an addict and a co-dependent certainly have a dysfunctional relationship, but it may not necessarily be toxic.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

I don't think it's a question where the answer comes from the label, it all depends too much on the people involved and on what you're saying "toxic" is. I googled it quickly to see what a definition might be and the definitions seemed to run the gamut from co-dependence to flat out domestic violence.

That aside, I think it can work several ways. I think that a lot of times people find their "complement". For example, alcoholics find enablers. Each individual has their own "stuff" to fix, but sure, it can be done and the relationship move along with them.

Other times, you have situations like Deejo described where the people are completely different in one particular relationship than they are in any other....and likely not in a good way. Then I think they do have to separate in order to work through things if they're so inclined, because there just isn't any air when they're together, you know?

But, and my first thought from the googles and your suggestions in the first post frankly, had to do more with violent relationships. In that case, it's never recommended to stay together while both people do the work they need to on themselves first, and then if so desired, on the relationship. The elements of power and control are just too great for any real healing to go on when both people are in the same space.

But when you talk about toxicity being more "interesting", I think that's a whole different matter. That's not one person being right or wrong or the relationship between them being the problem. That seems to be more about looking for/needing the "drama" that comes from a "toxic" relationship (again, I'm really not sure how you're defining this). I remember it was a huge challenge in domestic violence treatment for victims to overcome the desire for "excitement" in future relationships. I seem to remember a study several years ago that showed that after years of living in these highly adrenaline charged relationships (like repeatedly fearing for your safety/life), brain function was altered and these long-time victims were addicted to adrenaline in the same sort of the way that drug addicts became addicted to stimulants. While the victims could learn all sorts of things about healthy relationships and better choices etc, it was incredibly difficult for them to break their need for adrenaline and so they kept ending up in these high-risk relationships even when they could see the warning signs. In that case, you have all the elements where two toxic people are finding each other and making a really messed up relationship...

So I don't think it's a black and white sort of answer--it depends much more on the elements involved.


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

Definitions seem to vary very widely indeed.... from there being no evidence of love despite partner saying he/she loves you, to keeping you dependent on them, to controlling you (eg checking emails, workplace etc, to expecting painful or annoying changes in your life just for them, to of course violence at the extreme end. 
I'm not sure what definition my OH meant when he said he thought our relationship was toxic and that he didn't think we'd be able to work out; I also should point out I don't find toxicity 'interesting' as such, it was a slightly tongue in cheek label because I'd got no response to my other thread. 
I accept all the notions of heal yourself first & if there was something wrong with him why get with him, but (a) if you read the definitions, it is perfectly possible for someone to be labelled toxic but not be because it is the labeller who is the toxic one and (b) it seems a recognisable trait for it to take a while to become apparent there's anything wrong. I always thought he had a short fuse, we always worked through it. He always blamed his reactions on my lack of empathy, lack of understanding, etc etc and it's taken me (literally) years to get him to see he's actually hugely oversensitive. Example? Our 8yo son and I were talking about a yucky piece of muesli bar he'd passed to his dad to dispose of as I was driving. I said something about why did you hand dad a chewed bar. He said he didn't chew it. (it had simply fallen apart) I said ok it looked chewed. He said he hadn't chewed it. I was about to wrap up the chat by saying fair enough doesn't really matter, it's yucky... but it's gone now... OH leaps in all guns blazing, ok stop it you two. I say 'what?' he says 'I don't like arguments'... but you have to understand the tone of this. It stops you in your tracks, changes the entire feel of the moment. 
Just to come to the present, where we are is he's in his cave in our home country (a cave bought on the advice of a CBT counsellor who'd never met me, was helping him deal with anger management and said he should buy himself somewhere and never let me set foot....... and where I'm not welcome) and yet because of a couple of attempts by me to inject a few hugs into the last day or so, he gave me an affectionate kiss and hug at the airport. First in ages. 
So much story to tell, this only skims the surface.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Toxic relationships, by the grace of God, exist. Linking the dysfunctional people together creates only two miserable people rather than four. It's mathematical mercy.


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