# GF thinks affection with 7yo from my prev marriage inappropriate, I don't..am I wrong



## crash test

This is tough to write down, I actually feel creepy just thinking about this .... quick back story: was married for 10 years and have a wonderful 7 year old daughter from previous marriage. Marriage ended due to ex's year long infidelity 3 years ago. Met current gf 2 years ago and now have a 5 month old son together. I have 50% custody of daughter so we see her every week and she absolutely adores her baby brother. GF and I have had a very up and down 2 years due to the unplanned pregnancy, ex wife issues, divorce being ugly and drawn out, etc. Of my many concerns a major one has been the safety and security of my 7 yo in my home with GF and 5 month old. I believe that divorce is a traumatic experience for any child, of any age, and they need assurance that they are loved and are safe and secure in both households. My GF feels that it's only traumatic if the "adults" act as if it's traumatic...if the adults act as if things are normal and ok, then the child will feel things are normal and ok. We differ on this point...GF also feels that my daughter is spoiled and doesn't appreciate how good she has it financially, compared to other people... we also differ on this subject...lastly, and this came as a surprise to me last weekend, is my GF feels my affection and attention to my daughter is inappropriate. The discussion came about because the 3 of us were lying in bed together watching a family movie....my daughter was in between both of us but snuggled or leaning back against my chest using it as a sort of chair to watch the movie...the GF got upset with me later and said the way I am with my daughter... "gives her the creeps", "makes her sick to her stomach", and she even uttered the phrase: "you do everything with her you do with me except have sex"....I was beyond stunned to say the least....she specifically also mentioned that I brush or stroke her hair 5 times and it's weird...lastly, that when my daughter goes to bed, she asks me to lie down with her for 5 minutes or so until she falls asleep. It's never occurred to me these may be construed as inappropriate because she's my daughter who I love as her father with all my heart and just want her to feel loved and safe in her "other" home. Am I wrong? Is GF right? I'm actually contemplating leaving the GF because I told myself I would never let a relationship minimize my love and affection for my daughter. I never wanted to be the father who would forsake the children from his first marriage when he started a new family with a new mother...dazed and confused in CA


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## DoF

I don't see ANYTHING that you doing as wrong, if anything, I think it's great.

I did the same things.

There is NOTHING wrong with showing your daughter love the way you do, if anything, parents should do it more.

Now onto the real problem, your girlfriends thoughts are dirty and disgusting......and it would make me sick to my stomach that anyone (especially someone so close to me) would think like that.

What kind of a woman doesn't appreciate a great father figure?

Perhaps she is jealous cause she never got that kind of attention as a little girl?

Her thoughts are weird and dirty, get to the bottom of it. Be firm and tell her that you love your daughter very much and are trying to be the best husband as you can be.

This will require communication between you 2. 

Chances are high it's simply jealousy.......

I know it's only been 2 years with this girl, and I also know that your daughter is probably #1 in your life right now.....with your girlfriend on the verge of becoming the #1 in your life.

It can also be a power struggle....


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## Revamped

You sound like a wonderful dad. It seems your daughter has adjusted well to the new circumstances and the fact she is a big sister so kudos to you! I am glad you can show your soft side and show genuine affection to your children.

I do have a slight problem with laying down with your daughter at night. That could be construed in some bad ways and you don't need to go down that road. Plus, I think your daughter should feel comfortable in her new surroundings and fall asleep on her own.

I am curious though, why your gf sees more bad going on than good. Maybe she didn't come from an affectionate family so it's a foreign concept to her. 

Or, is she just trying to dig at you being her normal *****y self?


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## PBear

Your gf has issues, IMHO. My first thought is she's projecting HER previous negative experiences (i.e. childhood sexual abuse) onto your relationship with your daughter. This has bad news written all over it. And now, of course, you're tied together with her with another child... 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ariel_angel77

Oh my gosh. It upsets me so much that your GF would treat your daughter that way. PLEASE LEAVE THIS WOMAN.

How dare she try to take away affection your daughter needs!! She just went through a DIVORCE for crying out loud, she needs EXTRA affection and attention! There are so many words I want to say right now about your GF saying those things, but they would be too extreme for this page. 

Second of all, no, you should not act like divorce is normal. IT HAS traumatized her. Your GF is wrong. Your Daughter is going to have feelings about the divorce, DO NOT minimize them. They are very real and they need to be acknowledged, not ignored. Teach her that she never wants to go through this type of thing. Tell her you understand it hurts her and she may talk to you anytime about it.

If you want someone who would never treat your daughter like her own, who would be the evil-stepmother type, who would leave her out of things, who would never love her, then continue your relationship.

My dad married a woman who will not let me see him. He only texts me every now and then. No birthday/Christmas presents, no call, nothing is allowed. She tells him he supported me for 18 years and I am no longer irrelevant. She made him get rid of all pictures of me. He let her!!! Do you know how hurtful it is? You know, hurtful isn't a good enough word. It has crushed me.

PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PLEASE NEVER MAKE YOUR CHILD HAVE TO GO THROUGH ANYTHING LESS THAN A STEPMOTHER WHO LOVES HER DEARLY LIKE HER OWN AND SHOWS HER AFFECTION AS YOU DO NOW.


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## crash test

I understand how even writing down or saying the words, "lying down with my daughter" can quickly get someone's antennae to beep...but it feels cold and cruel to quickly turn out the light and leave the room when she begins to fade to sleep while we're reading a book or watching tv together...all so as not to give the appearance of any impropriety to my GF? My daughter just wants me to hold her for a few minutes...I'm getting emotional even right now as I write this just thinking about it....the gf gave a blanket apology the next day, blaming her comments on hormones and said, "I do want you to be affectionate with "S"....but I can't get the words or feelings out of my head and I get angry thinking someone who is supposed to be my partner could harbor those kinds of thoughts about me, and have such jealousy for an innocent 7 yo...much less same them out loud in such a mean and vicious manner.


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## DoF

ariel_angel77 said:


> My dad married a woman who will not let me see him. He only texts me every now and then. No birthday/Christmas presents, no call, nothing is allowed. She tells him he supported me for 18 years and I am no longer irrelevant. She made him get rid of all pictures of me. He let her!!! Do you know how hurtful it is? You know, hurtful isn't a good enough word. It has crushed me.


Your beef is NOT with this woman, your beef is with your father. He allowed this sort of thing and is a complete moron for doing so.

What I'm trying to tell you is that YOU DO NOT want such a person in your life anyways. 

he doesn't deserve YOU at this point and time will come when he will beg for your forgiveness, and that's whey you show him the door and tell him to **** off.

If I was to do such a thing to my daughter I would probably put a bullet in my head.

I'm sorry


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## P51Geo1980

Your gf has the issues, not you. In her mind, her family is you, her , and your son. Your daughter is her "step"-daughter and she probably sees her as an infringement to her family unit. I've seen many fathers act the way you describe with their daughters , it's not creepy at all. My dad's cousin kisses his 19 year old daughter on the cheek every morning and evening (European families aren't as uptight about parent-child affection as Americans are) and I still kiss my mom and dad whenever I are them (I'm 34). There's nothing sexual, creepy, or stomach-churning about what you described. Before contemplating leaving her (which I don't think should be off the table) talk to your gf and try to get to the heart of the issue. Was she ever abused by any sort father figure in her life?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolf1974

Let me just guess here. Your GF is the product of divorce right? This sounds a lot like how my x wife behaves...." Ohh the divorce is no big deal to the kids" because to her mind she was fine with her own mother whoring around and leaving her father. But it's not ok. 

I sincerely suggest that you get a lawyer to establish custody of your son and leave this woman. If she hasn't started abusing your girl that will likely come soon. You are the father and protector....get to it!


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## ntamph

P51Geo1980 said:


> Your gf has the issues, not you. In her mind, her family is you, her , and your son. Your daughter is her "step"-daughter and she probably sees her as an infringement to her family unit. I've seen many fathers act the way you describe with their daughters , it's not creepy at all. My dad's cousin kisses his 19 year old daughter on the cheek every morning and evening (European families aren't as uptight about parent-child affection as Americans are) and I still kiss my mom and dad whenever I are them (I'm 34). There's nothing sexual, creepy, or stomach-churning about what you described. Before contemplating leaving her (which I don't think should be off the table) talk to your gf and try to get to the heart of the issue. Was she ever abused by any sort father figure in her life?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm amazed by how many people think it's creepy to show affection to parents past a certain age. I know guys who think HUGGING your dad is unmanly and weird. WTF?

The GF is crazy. However, I found the comment earlier about getting her to sleep telling because she damn well could ruin his life if she's vindictive enough about a relationship breakup.


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## Tiberius

While reading your story I remembered what my husband told me about his ex girlfriend. 
She was very jealous of his son from a previous relationship and asked him a question: If we are drowning, who will you rescue, me or your son first?
He explained to her that it was impossible for him to give her an answer as he feels different sort of love for each.

Your girlfriend is simply jealous of your daughter. I see nothing wrong in you lying with her till she falls asleep. I sometimes do this with my son if he had a nightmare and he is older than your daughter.
Do not stop giving affection to your girl, she is traumatized by divorce and she needs to feel loved.
You are investing in her future and well being-you are making her feel secure and confident by being a good dad.

Your girlfriend obviously has issues which she needs to address with a personal counselor.


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## crash test

actually her parents are still together, but I do remember a story she told me where she asked her dad if her mom was his "soulmate" and he told her, no. He actually told his daughter, my gf, that her mother was not his soulmate but he could never leave her because he made a vow and they have children and grandchildren together...I mean, even if it's true what father says that to his daughter about her mother?

GF is super nice and sweet 90% of the time but man that other 10% can make my skin crawl...she can be super mean and lashes out at me...has never once done that with my daughter but honestly, how long can that last? as my daughter gets older and starts going through hormone changes of her own I see this "competition" GF has construed in her mind getting worse...


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## norajane

Was your gf abused as a child? That's the only reason I can think why she'd question your behavior with your daughter, which seems perfectly normal to me.

Your gf is jealous or insecure about something, and she's focused on your daughter as the problem. You need to get to the bottom of her insecurities, or your life will be a living hell, not to mention your daughter's.

How is she with your daughter? Loving? Cold?

Make sure you start educating your daughter to tell you if someone/anyone is treating her badly or if she's uncomfortable with someone. Your gf might not treat her all that well when you're not around if she is harboring this anger and insecurity about her.


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## ILoveSparkles

Wow! I could never UNHEAR those words if they were spoken to me. I wouldn't be able to look at my SO the same way again.

Disgusting.


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## crash test

Hi Tiberius,

we went to counseling for a few sessions a couple months ago but she didn't want to go back because she didn't "feel a connection" with therapist...I believe it was because she wasn't getting the feedback she was hoping for...short version is therapist told her (and me also if I'm honest) to grow up, kids come first but relationship also has to be a priority, divorce is traumatic for the 7 year old, you were both irresponsible and got pregnant but it's now your choice to live together to make it work...if you both have one foot out the door it'll never work...she said could help us communicate our issues and needs with each other over time but GF said she didn't want go anymore and would rather go to a couples retreat ...I'm paraphrasing of course but you get the gist


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## GusPolinski

I find myself wondering whether or not your GF was a victim of CSA.


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## crash test

by gf's behavior with my daughter is partly why I haven't left before...in all honesty, she's actually really good with her...if gf gets annoyed with daughter she doesn't take it out on her, she gets pissed at me later... My daughter is super super sweet and loves to play games with her, they make up dances together and put on shows etc. It's like living on a bungy cord...feels good for most of the ride before being jerked in another direction with no notice...I'm always on edge that even when things are going ok, just around the corner my daughter will say or do something that will annoy GF who takes it out on me later.... and then is super sweet and smiley the next day


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## crash test

Hi Gus,

I'm sorry...what is CSA?


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## 3Xnocharm

WOW, does your GF have issues! Serious issues! Its one thing to be annoyed or a little jealous, but to actually think/say that showing your kid affection is inappropriate?? You'd better nip this in the ass now, or show her the door.


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## PBear

No offence, but you're not making this relationship sound any better. So you're her punching bag when she has a bad day? 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## crash test

I'm definitely seeing a pattern from responses as to whether she may have been abused as a child...it's definitely not something she's shared with me if she has...although she does admit to knowing and being aware of sex at a very young age...6 to 7 if I remember correctly...I'm beginning to think there actually may be something from her past she's either repressed or not processed....not to add fuel to the fire but she also tends to drink more than average....loves her Kettle and soda. will have 1-2 drinks a night 4-5 nights per week to wind down and take the edge off...that's a pretty big red flag too no?


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## GusPolinski

crash test said:


> Hi Gus,
> 
> I'm sorry...what is CSA?


Childhood Sexual Abuse


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## COguy

From what you posted, it doesn't sound weird at all. Cuddling with your daughter and laying down with her when she goes to bed is not weird at all. The sensationalism and jealousy would be major dealbreakers for me.

On the spoiling issue, you didn't post enough details to give feedback.

Given that you're rocky with your GF, and your relationship is still new, is there any reason you're with her other than the new kid? It's got red flags all over it, if she wasn't the mother of your kid would you still be with her?


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## COguy

crash test said:


> by gf's behavior with my daughter is partly why I haven't left before...in all honesty, she's actually really good with her...if gf gets annoyed with daughter she doesn't take it out on her, she gets pissed at me later... My daughter is super super sweet and loves to play games with her, they make up dances together and put on shows etc. It's like living on a bungy cord...feels good for most of the ride before being jerked in another direction with no notice...I'm always on edge that even when things are going ok, just around the corner my daughter will say or do something that will annoy GF who takes it out on me later.... and then is super sweet and smiley the next day


Sounds great, but you're still really new in your relationship. You're essentially married but you haven't been together more than 2 years. I don't know, you're getting a lot of red flags....


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## SamuraiJack

I think I may see the problem.
I would be willing to bet you my usual bet ( snickers bar) that if you both went to 5lovelanguages.com and took the test, that you would each score differently.
I bet your love langauges are physical touch and quality time. I bet hers are acts of service and affirmation.

She may think you are too close and too physical because these are low on her scale. If you two understand this dynamic, it will make things much easier for you both...and your child.

and of course your therapist is correct...

BTW, being a therapist myself, I can assure you that nobody bonds with their therapist in the first session unless they are children.


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## crash test

COguy...on the spoiling front...a few weeks ago we went to a restaurant and GF took daughter to the restroom. At dinner we had been making up our own words to a made up song about me being awesome. in the restroom, my daughter told gf that "everyone is awesome...except homeless people...homeless people aren't awesome...and have you ever noticed that most homeless people are black?"... we live in LA and have our fair share of homeless, of which, my daughter always asks if she can have a dollar to give to the person...white, black, Latin, doesn't matter she always asks me for money to give. I'm not sure where the black comment came from, considering I'm a mutt with a varied genepool, but if I had to bet I'd say it was an honest observation from an innocent 7 year old who comes into contact with homeless on a fairly regular basis. GF said that daughter was spoiled and doesn't appreciate how good she has it and should volunteer at a soup kitchen...I replied that this was a teaching point for us and my daughter and as the adults it's our job to explain the different reasons someone may be homeless and homelessness comes in all shapes and colors ....GF, said "FU, I'm an adult and my needs aren't being met, etc. etc"...this is an example of what I mean about lashing out at me on a moment's notice...we went from discussing my daughter to cussing at me and telling me her needs aren't being met...


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## norajane

Your gf shouldn't be swearing at you. That's abusive.

Why do you listen to anything she says after she starts a sentence with FU? Walk away until she can speak in a civil way. You aren't required to stand there and listen while she carries on with her tantrums.


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## SamuraiJack

crash test said:


> COguy...on the spoiling front...a few weeks ago we went to a restaurant and GF took daughter to the restroom. At dinner we had been making up our own words to a made up song about me being awesome. in the restroom, my daughter told gf that "everyone is awesome...except homeless people...homeless people aren't awesome...and have you ever noticed that most homeless people are black?"... we live in LA and have our fair share of homeless, of which, my daughter always asks if she can have a dollar to give to the person...white, black, Latin, doesn't matter she always asks me for money to give. I'm not sure where the black comment came from, considering I'm a mutt with a varied genepool, but if I had to bet I'd say it was an honest observation from an innocent 7 year old who comes into contact with homeless on a fairly regular basis. GF said that daughter was spoiled and doesn't appreciate how good she has it and should volunteer at a soup kitchen...I replied that this was a teaching point for us and my daughter and as the adults it's our job to explain the different reasons someone may be homeless and homelessness comes in all shapes and colors ....GF, said "FU, I'm an adult and my needs aren't being met, etc. etc"...this is an example of what I mean about lashing out at me on a moment's notice...we went from discussing my daughter to cussing at me and telling me her needs aren't being met...


Are you SURE you are pulling your weight in this relationship?
Are you CERTAIN she knows you are trying hard?
Is there ANY possibility that you may inadvertantly be playing favorites?

and the final question...

Is there a possibility that your GF has anger issues?


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## COguy

Sounds like you might have a Cluster B on your hands. Might want to read up on it a little. The book emotional vampires helped me, cause I saw my ex in so much of it.


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## COguy

SamuraiJack said:


> I think I may see the problem.
> I would be willing to bet you my usual bet ( snickers bar) that if you both went to 5lovelanguages.com and took the test, that you would each score differently.
> I bet your love langauges are physical touch and quality time. I bet hers are acts of service and affirmation.
> 
> She may think you are too close and too physical because these are low on her scale. If you two understand this dynamic, it will make things much easier for you both...and your child.
> 
> and of course your therapist is correct...
> 
> BTW, being a therapist myself, I can assure you that nobody bonds with their therapist in the first session unless they are children.


I'd bet a month of candy bars that there is way deeper issues here than love languages...

All the counseling and therapy in the world won't help someone who has a personality disorder, or who has major issues needing individual therapy.


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## crash test

Hi Samurai - those are valid points...I believe I'm more than pulling my own weight in the relationship and when it comes to our son. from financial, to emotional, to night changes, feeding, cleaning house, etc. I've told her and tried to show her as well how hard I've tried over past 2 years to protect her from the ex and provide for us in a new future. I've failed to convince her though as proven by her recent statements... and I'm exhausted and exasperated from the effort...as for favorites, I'm well aware of gf's feelings that she and son could be second fiddle for my attention so I'm constantly doing math in my head about how much time I spend with son, daughter, gf when we're all together...I try to be as affectionate to son and gf when daughter is around, etc...but I'm quickly coming to point where I don't want to have to work so hard to "prove" myself. I'm a good provider, thoughtful, generous with money and time and love my son as much as my daughter...do I think she has anger issues? yes, absolutely.


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## DoF

crash test said:


> GF is super nice and sweet 90% of the time but man that other 10% can make my skin crawl...she can be super mean and lashes out at me...has never once done that with my daughter but honestly, how long can that last? as my daughter gets older and starts going through hormone changes of her own I see this "competition" GF has construed in her mind getting worse...


You are doing WELL by identifying the issues with your girlfriend.

Now it's time to sit her down and communicate your concerns about her TO her and see what she does with it.

Nobody is perfect, it's going to take work.

If she is willing to listen and be considerate and CARE for your concerns, that will tell you that she is someone that cares and takes this relationship seriously.

If you are met with more "harshness" and what you are talking about........DO NOT PROCEED.

Matter a fact, RUN FAST


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## crash test

Now that you bring it up Sam Jack, I actually thought she had anger issues and could be mean months before she got pregnant...our physical attraction to each other at the time masked a lot of my "back of neck spidey sense tingles" that I would get...then she got pregnant and we both wanted to do the "right" thing. we're too old (42 and 36) and financially capable to abort or adopt and frankly I was looking forward to my daughter having a brother also.


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## ariel_angel77

DoF said:


> Your beef is NOT with this woman, your beef is with your father. He allowed this sort of thing and is a complete moron for doing so.
> 
> What I'm trying to tell you is that YOU DO NOT want such a person in your life anyways.
> 
> he doesn't deserve YOU at this point and time will come when he will beg for your forgiveness, and that's whey you show him the door and tell him to **** off.
> 
> If I was to do such a thing to my daughter I would probably put a bullet in my head.
> 
> I'm sorry


Thank you for your kind words DoF. I really appreciate it.


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## COguy

crash test said:


> Now that you bring it up Sam Jack, I actually thought she had anger issues and could be mean months before she got pregnant...our physical attraction to each other at the time masked a lot of my "back of neck spidey sense tingles" that I would get...then she got pregnant and we both wanted to do the "right" thing. we're too old (42 and 36) and financially capable to abort or adopt and frankly I was looking forward to my daughter having a brother also.


Well I'd get a paternity test too, don't be one of those guys that finds out after 15 years your kid isn't yours. Can't believe that with so many problems early on your relationship you've stuck it out. I mean how many red flags do you need 6 months into a relationship to know that it's not going to work?


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## crash test

CO - I actually did do a paternity test when he was born...he's mine...well, at least there's a 99.999999% chance  another red flag that I felt I had to do that right?!? I know, I know...geez... I've stuck it out for one major reason, my son. I was hoping to avoid having 2 children with 2 different mom's in broken homes...During the good times we had I would tell myself, "this could work, we could be happy, my daughter can feel completely part of this new unit with me, her brother and 'stepmom'...then something will come out of nowhere and I'm in a whirlwhind with gf again, trying to mend whatever broken fence I've managed to break


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## COguy

crash test said:


> CO - I actually did do a paternity test when he was born...he's mine...well, at least there's a 99.999999% chance  another red flag that I felt I had to do that right?!? I know, I know...geez... I've stuck it out for one major reason, my son. I was hoping to avoid having 2 children with 2 different mom's in broken homes...During the good times we had I would tell myself, "this could work, we could be happy, my daughter can feel completely part of this new unit with me, her brother and 'stepmom'...then something will come out of nowhere and I'm in a whirlwhind with gf again, trying to mend whatever broken fence I've managed to break


You can't make an omelet out of dog sh*t. You are a magnet for the crazies, I recommend figuring that out before you invite more women into your life. But staying with this one isn't going to do you any favors. Also, prepare for 18 years of hell if you are going for custody.


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## norajane

COguy said:


> You can't make an omelet out of dog sh*t. You are a magnet for the crazies, I recommend figuring that out before you invite more women into your life. But staying with this one isn't going to do you any favors. Also, prepare for 18 years of hell if you are going for custody.


And always, always use a condom.


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## manticore

I told you in your last thread your GF is a selfish Dumb, even when other women came to her rescue whe I said that.

My father even used to take naps with my sisters in the afternoon even whe they were preteens (it stopped when they were around 13 - 14) and neither was abused and netiher was traumatized by this, if anything it make it harder for them to realize that my father cheated on my mother because they felt even more betrayed as both of them were really close with my father, and considered him the perfect father, man and moral figure (now days they said that not even good men can be trusted)


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## crash test

not going for custody is not in the cards...I do love my son and absolutely love the bond he and his sister are already developing after only 5 months...I agree, the gf might try and go for the jugular...on 2 occasions where we fought and discussed separating she threatened, "do you really want to spend 2 years in court fighting 2 women?"...(my ex and I have gone to court after the divorce for "change in circumstance" motions before a judge"... and my favorite, "think long and hard about your next words unless you don't want to see "T" and "S" together for years"...


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## crash test

oh and I'm definitely getting a vasectomy...too much info? sorry


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## crash test

Manticore - I do remember those comments, thank you...and yes, even after I posted those about my gf's text to her friend that she, "couldn't believe our custody with (my daughter) is going up even more"...and that she wants a girl's night every other week in order to get a break from my daughter I still let her talk me into going back to therapy and let her talk her way out of those hurtful comments... I really feel at this point that I need to move on. It'll be expensive, emotional, logistically challenging with school/daycare etc. but I'm done


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## Brafdor

Gettin' the ol' snipsnip


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## DoF

ariel_angel77 said:


> Thank you for your kind words DoF. I really appreciate it.


No problem, sorry if I was too harsh. 

My wife has a ****ty father too and it took her WAY too long to accept it and move on........he doesn't even deserve a HI from her......

I struggle to figure out how a person can be like that. Do you even call them a person? :scratchhead:

How does ANY parent not want to be part of their kids life is beyond me.


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## DoF

crash test said:


> Manticore - I do remember those comments, thank you...and yes, even after I posted those about my gf's text to her friend that she, "couldn't believe our custody with (my daughter) is going up even more"...and that she wants a girl's night every other week in order to get a break from my daughter I still let her talk me into going back to therapy and let her talk her way out of those hurtful comments... I really feel at this point that I need to move on. It'll be expensive, emotional, logistically challenging with school/daycare etc. but I'm done


I think you are making a right choice. 

Let her have her girls night out.......and another man to treat like ****, you don't deserve this crap.


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## frusdil

How can an adult be jealous of a child?

OP, I'm stepmum to a beautiful girl who turns 10 this weekend. I met her father when she was 6. I love her as my own (with the blessing of her mother) and my family has also welcomed her with open arms - my mum is nanny and my brothers are her uncles. All of us would do anything for that gorgeous girl. She came with me to pick out my wedding dress - it was a special secret we shared together before the wedding, she was in my wedding vows, she cut our wedding cake with us. She makes our lives so much brighter. Can you tell I love her? Lol.

Do not accept anything less than that for your daughter. There is nothing wrong or inappropriate with the way you are with your daughter. She needs extra reassurance and love to feel safe, she is a child of divorce.

Your gf needs to grow up. I can't believe her attitude, it is truly disgusting.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Wolf1974

frusdil said:


> How can an adult be jealous of a child?
> 
> OP, I'm stepmum to a beautiful girl who turns 10 this weekend. I met her father when she was 6. I love her as my own (with the blessing of her mother) and my family has also welcomed her with open arms - my mum is nanny and my brothers are her uncles. All of us would do anything for that gorgeous girl. She came with me to pick out my wedding dress - it was a special secret we shared together before the wedding, she was in my wedding vows, she cut our wedding cake with us. She makes our lives so much brighter. Can you tell I love her? Lol.
> 
> Do not accept anything less than that for your daughter. There is nothing wrong or inappropriate with the way you are with your daughter. She needs extra reassurance and love to feel safe, she is a child of divorce.
> 
> Your gf needs to grow up. I can't believe her attitude, it is truly disgusting.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


Unfortunately not all women are like you. I had a former GF that was jealous of my kids. Not sure if this is a female thing or guys do this to but it was really off putting. 

I would watch my daughters try and connect with her and get attention from her and she would ignore them like they were diseased. I saw their hurt and joined them in not understanding what that was about. Spoke to her several times about it but never got any better and I was glad to get her out of my life as were my kiddos. Of the three GF I have had since my divorce she is the only one they don't ask about .


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## DoF

Wolf1974 said:


> Unfortunately not all women are like you. I had a former GF that was jealous of my kids. Not sure if this is a female thing or guys do this to but it was really off putting.
> 
> I would watch my daughters try and connect with her and get attention from her and she would ignore them like they were diseased. I saw their hurt and joined them in not understanding what that was about. Spoke to her several times about it but never got any better and I was glad to get her out of my life as were my kiddos. Of the three GF I have had since my divorce she is the only one they don't ask about .


At what point of the relationship do you introduce your kids to your SO?


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## happy as a clam

I don't have anything to add CT, except whatever you decide, DO NOT MARRY THE GF!! There may come a moment when everything is looking up and you get swept up in the moment. Just.... DON'T.

She clearly has some psych issues and duking it out for custody will be tough enough without throwing ANOTHER divorce on top of it.

Just my 2 cents...


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## Aspydad

Your girlfriend needs to get over her insecurities! I will tell you that it is imperative that you give just the type of affection you’re giving to your daughter. This makes them feel loved and shows them just the type of person they should look for in a spouse - you are the example.

I have three kids - two daughters and one son. My oldest is 21 years old. I hug them all - even my boy who is 15 years old. With both my daughters (now 18 and 21) I would actually go into their bedroom and give them a back scratch just prior to them going to sleep as a tradition - it kind of relaxed them and they loved it. Now when they are home, they will still ask me to come in a give them the back scratch (not every night like when they were younger - but some nights). My boy at age 15 still comes to my wife and I and gives us a kiss on the cheeks before bed - I will still give him a hug and tell him I love him.

In this day and age, it is more important than ever to be close to your children so they know you unconditionally love them.


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## jld

You're cuddling with your daughter is fine, and I think it's sweet that you lie next to her until she falls to sleep. My husband did that with our kids too. You are a very good father, crash.

I would not marry her right now, or maybe ever. But you do have a child with her, so it's not like she's going to be leaving your life. I think you could learn how to handle her. Basically you have to have enough confidence in yourself to be able to tell her No, and stick to it. Firmness is really the key.

There's no reason to be scared of her. You need to confront that fear in yourself and overcome it.

The main work for you is on yourself. As you develop more inner security, it will be easier to deal with her.

Have you seen this website?

Dating a BPD: You Must Establish Respect

Lots of interesting articles there. But they all come down to believing in yourself, and holding your (reasonable, not selfish) ground, no matter how your girlfriend reacts.


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## Catherine602

This is very serious, Your gf cannot chose whether or not to go to get therapy, she MUST go. You and your daughter are in jeopardy, in my opinion. Your gf might share her feelings with a friend or relative, without considering the consequences since she is not aware of how serious this is. That person may inform CPS. 

Your gf put this interpretation into words has changed your relationship with her and your daughter. She may be sorry but does she still honor these thoughts? Is her relationship with your 7 year old daughter nurturing and caring? I think you need to let her know how serious this is. You cannot proceed with the relationship without resolving some sero=ious issues. The accusation, her feelings about your daughter and her feelings about you. 

I don't know if I am over reacting so I leave it to you to evaluate.


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## WolverineFan

I know there are four pages of response here but there is absolutely nothing inappropriate about the behavior you have described with your daughter. There are significant "red flags", however, when it comes to the health of the relationship with your gf. Unfortunately, you are now in a position where she is going to be a part of your life no matter what because you have a son together. I am a divorced father and the idea of being in a relationship with any woman who shared thoughts about my daughter like your GF has stirs up negative emotions just thinking about it. 

At the same time, it is not that unusual for women to get jealous of a relationship a dad has with his daughter. There are even instances when the biological mom can get jealous of her biological daughter. Honestly, I have been jealous for my children's affection when I feel like I have missed out on it but their mother receives it so freely. We all long to love and be loved and we all have a fallen nature. Sometimes negative emotions creep in that have to be rejected and fought against.

The situation you have with your GF raises significant red flags in my mind and in my heart. It would have been better to listen to those "tingly feelings" you had on the back of your neck before getting sexually involved but there isn't anything you can do about that now. I am not even sure that running away from the relationship is a good response. Do you want both of your children to be raised in broken home? Especially when you have already expressed the truth that divorce has such a negative impact on kids? Have you brought up counseling? Honestly, both of you could probably benefit from that kind of help.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.


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## crash test

Frus - thanks for the reply...I had written in an earlier post about my lofty expectations for my gf to love my daughter "as her own"...lot's of varied responses to that but in your case you honestly love your stepdaughter as your own...I don't think that will ever be the case for me...my gf says she loves her and tells her she loves her and as I've mentioned, the gf has never been mean or snarky with daughter...however, she has told me that she won't ever love her "as her own" because she's literally "not her own"...and don't even get me started about how she feels about the ex...


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## crash test

Happy - funny you should mention the marriage part...when we found out she was pregnant she said she didn't want to get married...a few months into the pregnancy she said, "well, maybe someday...it would be nice for our son to be part of a husband and wife family (or something like that)....then when the baby came it was, "how come you don't want to marry me? I'm embarrassed to talk to my friends about our future because there's no ring on my finger.".... I'm definitely not marrying this woman....if I had any reservations before, just reading what people and my family have told me over past few days have solidified my resolve to move on...I actually looked at an apartment this morning after dropping daughter off at camp...that's a huge psychological step for me...now I just need to sack up and break up with her tomorrow night (we have daughter tonight, which, is also one of her girls night out)


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## crash test

thanks Aspy - I feel I give the gf equal if not more attention .... but her perception/reality is that I give more to daughter...that when my daughter is with us we are 2 units 1) me and dauther 2) gf and son...I've been very well aware of her feelings about this for months so I'm constantly on the look out for how much time I spend with each person and I just can't win...I'm sick of doing math problems in my head and trying to read her body language that I'm not paying enough attention or giving enough affection to her or son...and we only have my daughter 50% of the week, the other 50% of the week my full attention/affection is given to gf and son....


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## happy as a clam

crash test said:


> ...if I had any reservations before, just reading what people and my family have told me over past few days have solidified my resolve to move on...*I actually looked at an apartment this morning after dropping daughter off at camp...that's a huge psychological step for me...*


Way to move forward CT. I know that "in your gut" you know you are doing the right thing.


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## frusdil

crash test said:


> Frus - thanks for the reply...I had written in an earlier post about my lofty expectations for my gf to love my daughter "as her own"...lot's of varied responses to that but in your case you honestly love your stepdaughter as your own...I don't think that will ever be the case for me...my gf says she loves her and tells her she loves her and as I've mentioned, the gf has never been mean or snarky with daughter...however, she has told me that she won't ever love her "as her own" because she's literally "not her own"...and don't even get me started about how she feels about the ex...


That's very sad for your daughter, my heart breaks for her. Children don't ask for their parents to divorce, and they don't choose their step parents. I feel very strongly that if someone doesn't love a child, they should not marry that child's mother/father.

I feel for you, you're caught between a rock and a hard place because you have a child with your gf...if you didn't, I'd say to break off your relationship with her now but it's not that simple...


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## frusdil

Wolf1974 said:


> Unfortunately not all women are like you. I had a former GF that was jealous of my kids. Not sure if this is a female thing or guys do this to but it was really off putting.
> 
> I would watch my daughters try and connect with her and get attention from her and she would ignore them like they were diseased. I saw their hurt and joined them in not understanding what that was about. Spoke to her several times about it but never got any better and I was glad to get her out of my life as were my kiddos. Of the three GF I have had since my divorce she is the only one they don't ask about .


That's so sad Wolf, your poor little girls  They must have been so confused...was that the reason that relationship didn't work out? Did you end it? 

I don't understand some people...particularly a lot of step parents attitudes to their stepchildren...I hear them say things and think wtf?


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## Wolf1974

DoF said:


> At what point of the relationship do you introduce your kids to your SO?


It varies. I don't have any hard and fast rules on it but generally around 6 months when I have determined that this could go the distance, In this particular case it was 8 months.


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## Wolf1974

frusdil said:


> That's so sad Wolf, your poor little girls  They must have been so confused...was that the reason that relationship didn't work out? Did you end it?
> 
> I don't understand some people...particularly a lot of step parents attitudes to their stepchildren...I hear them say things and think wtf?


Thanks they were confused but they didn't like her much so didn't mind when she was gone lol. It wasn't the only cause of the break up but it certainly was a large factor


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## Cynthia

It might be a good idea to see an attorney before you break up with your girlfriend. She sounds like she may take off with your son.


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## AliceA

I have a 7yo daughter myself and my DH is very close with her. I've had a family member comment with similar statements about their relationship as your GF has, so I feel like I have quite a bit in common with you.

DH developed a very close connection with DD from the start, she was his little princess. He became even closer when DS was born as he didn't want DD to feel pushed aside as I had to care for a new baby. I imagine you did the same because of the divorce, feeling she needed a great deal of love and affection to support her through that difficult time. DD very much favours her Dad, but on the flip side, DS favours me. This is okay because as they are getting older this is starting to even out.

I initially was concerned that he was being showing too much favouritism towards DD. That was my major concern. Over the years he has forged a stronger connection with DS though, so I am feeling much better about it.

At the time I was too shocked to say anything to this family member, however, I am now pretty offended by what she said. I think she has never experienced an affectionate and loving father figure in her own life and so views it as strange and in her own mind, inappropriate. However, my own experience of having a father who I cannot recall ever even hugging me as a child has not made me view all male affection towards a child as disgusting and suspicious. It makes me sad that she has these views.

Edited to add: DH has lain down beside DD before as she goes to sleep. Generally this is due to her feeling sick or upset for some reason. I have done this too. Either of us would do this for our son or daughter because they are children and sometimes they need a little something extra to feel loved and secure.


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## crash test

Cynthia - I contacted and retained an attorney 3 weeks ago after the latest big fight we had where GF said she thought my daughter is spoiled and doesn't appreciate how good she has it compared to others...I'm telling GF tonight I can never un-hear the words she spoke to me and I doubt I'll ever forgive them. I'm not willing to reduce my affection to my daughter (and our son together for that matter) in order to appease her jealousy or her own childhood issues pertaining to a father's affection for his child. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt my affection with my daughter is normal and nowhere near any perverted boundries and I'll be damned if I'm going to withhold my love and affection to her.


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## Cynthia

crash test said:


> Cynthia - I contacted and retained an attorney 3 weeks ago after the latest big fight we had where GF said she thought my daughter is spoiled and doesn't appreciate how good she has it compared to others...I'm telling GF tonight I can never un-hear the words she spoke to me and I doubt I'll ever forgive them. I'm not willing to reduce my affection to my daughter (and our son together for that matter) in order to appease her jealousy or her own childhood issues pertaining to a father's affection for his child. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt my affection with my daughter is normal and nowhere near any perverted boundries and I'll be damned if I'm going to withhold my love and affection to her.


Your children are blessed to have a father who loves them and makes them a priority. You know what their needs are and are doing what is right to meet them. Good job.


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## imtamnew

There is a saying from where I come that anyone who says man is a slave to lust has not seen a father love his daughter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## crash test

just had the conversation with the GF that I'm leaving...I was hyperventilating a little bit for sure...but I took some deep breaths and stuck to my script: "what you said last week was hurtful and hateful. It was completely inappropriate and it killed all any of the good our obviously broken relationship still retained. I can't imagine a more hurtful thing to say to a father besides how your stomach hurts and how creepy you feel when you see my affection to my daughter....I will never compromise or reduce my affection for "S" or "T" in order to appease your insecurities in our adult relationship...it's not fair to the children and I'm not going to spend the next 15 years of my life wondering if I'm crossing some invisible boundary of yours every time I hug or cuddle with my daughter. I know my affection with my kids is normal and healthy and most children would crave a father who loves them as much as I do and is as affectionate with them as much as I am.".... she didn't lash out at me or yell as I thought she might. She actually apologized for saying what she said but said that my leaving proves I'm not capable of forgiving (she has a point, I'm currently not capable of forgiving)...said that I'm letting my emotions get between the welfare of my kids and that she's sad for me...she did sort of threaten some legality with me "leaving" but I had already spoken to my attorney and I'm not on any shaky ground as long as I continue to be in son's life while we work out next steps...will keep you posted next as to what happens...


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## jld

Sounds good, crash. Are you moving out soon?


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## crash test

jld - I took most of me and my daughter's clothes and bathroom stuff...I'm staying with a friend the nights I don't have either child...for the next month until I find an apartment I'll rent a hotel or AirBNB on the nights I have my daughter and (hopefully) my son. I'm curious to see if GF will fight me with taking son to spend time with me and my daughter...


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## jld

Very good. I think you will be happier as a single father.

But stay single for a while, okay? And work on having strong boundaries. That will serve you all of your life.


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## crash test

lol jld - I just got off the phone with my brother and he said the exact same thing except he was quite a bit more forceful  I'm already way ahead on that front in my mind though, definitely just want to spend time with the kids when I have them and fill my other time with work, exercise, hiking and golf...


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## jld

Sounds like a great brother. Just make sure you listen to him. 

And have fun with the kids the rest of the summer.


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## that_girl

norajane said:


> Was your gf abused as a child? That's the only reason I can think why she'd question your behavior with your daughter, which seems perfectly normal to me.
> 
> Your gf is jealous or insecure about something, and she's focused on your daughter as the problem. You need to get to the bottom of her insecurities, or your life will be a living hell, not to mention your daughter's.
> 
> How is she with your daughter? Loving? Cold?
> 
> Make sure you start educating your daughter to tell you if someone/anyone is treating her badly or if she's uncomfortable with someone. Your gf might not treat her all that well when you're not around if she is harboring this anger and insecurity about her.


:iagree::iagree:


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## Cynthia

crash test said:


> just had the conversation with the GF that I'm leaving...I was hyperventilating a little bit for sure...but I took some deep breaths and stuck to my script: "what you said last week was hurtful and hateful. It was completely inappropriate and it killed all any of the good our obviously broken relationship still retained. I can't imagine a more hurtful thing to say to a father besides how your stomach hurts and how creepy you feel when you see my affection to my daughter....I will never compromise or reduce my affection for "S" or "T" in order to appease your insecurities in our adult relationship...it's not fair to the children and I'm not going to spend the next 15 years of my life wondering if I'm crossing some invisible boundary of yours every time I hug or cuddle with my daughter. I know my affection with my kids is normal and healthy and most children would crave a father who loves them as much as I do and is as affectionate with them as much as I am.".... she didn't lash out at me or yell as I thought she might. She actually apologized for saying what she said but said that my leaving proves I'm not capable of forgiving (she has a point, I'm currently not capable of forgiving)...said that I'm letting my emotions get between the welfare of my kids and that she's sad for me...she did sort of threaten some legality with me "leaving" but I had already spoken to my attorney and I'm not on any shaky ground as long as I continue to be in son's life while we work out next steps...will keep you posted next as to what happens...


This is not about forgiveness. You can forgive someone and still recognize that they have issues that you do not want to live with 24/7. Obviously you are going to have to deal with her for a long time to come due to having a child together, but you will not have to live with her.
By her saying that you are not capable of forgiving and it is therefore your fault, she is utterly missing the point of what the problem is. She is not taking responsibility. You can forgive someone even when they don't take responsibility, but the problem is surely not resolved. She is right where she was before the conversation - blaming you.
You have every right to your son. Are you on the lease for the apartment you were living in with her? Until your name is off the lease, you still have a right to enter and take your son to wherever you want, as long as you bring him back in a reasonable time. You have the same rights with him that she does. He needs you as much as he needs her.


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## bravenewworld

Was your gf sexually abused? 

It's very sick for her to say something like that - affection isn't inherently sexual. The fact her mind went there AND she verbalized it is a huge red flag.

Edited to add: sounds like you are taking this seriously. Good luck and stay strong.


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## Uptown

Crash, I agree with Colorado (aka *COguy*) and *JLD* that you seem to be describing the red flags for a "Cluster B" personality disorder. Specfifically, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational jealousy (fear of abandonment), anger issues, temper tantrums, verbal abuse, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between loving you and devaluing you -- are some of the classic traits for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).

I therefore suggest you read my description of the typical warning signs for BPD in Maybe's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join Colorado and JLD in discussing them with you. Take care, Crash.


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## frusdil

I'm really sad to hear your relationship has ended OP, but I'm glad for your daughter's sake. What your ex said is offensive in the extreme.

FWIW my husband would often lie with his daughter until she fell asleep, and she even slept in his bed for a while after her parents divorced. Nothing wrong with that at all. It only became an issue when we agreed I would move in - I didn't want her to associate her having to sleep in her own room with my moving in...

It turns out we needn't have worried, she breathlessly and excitedly exclaimed to me that "you can sleep with daddy 'cause I sleep in my own room now!" and then practically dragged me to our bedroom and locked me in so I couldn't leave, hehehe 

In the future, if a woman doesn't love your daughter, don't get too serious with her, and certainly don't marry her. No child should ever feel unloved and as though he/she is in the way/a burden/a nuisance...


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## jld

frusdil said:


> OP, I'm stepmum to a beautiful girl who turns 10 this weekend. I met her father when she was 6. I love her as my own (with the blessing of her mother) and my family has also welcomed her with open arms - my mum is nanny and my brothers are her uncles. All of us would do anything for that gorgeous girl. She came with me to pick out my wedding dress - it was a special secret we shared together before the wedding, she was in my wedding vows, she cut our wedding cake with us. She makes our lives so much brighter. Can you tell I love her? Lol.


This is exactly the right approach, frusdil. I am shocked by the number of posters in other threads who have _not _shown the magnanimity of character that you have. 

And Happy Birthday to your little blessing!


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## EnjoliWoman

Good move, crash. Although I find that getting my daughter to sleep EVERY night like that became problematic in her ability to go to sleep by herself, I certainly don't see it as inappropriate, or any of your behavior. 

I agree there is a strong possibility of a PD or of prior abuse she hasn't dealt with. I personally welcome the opportunity for step children but at my age I will likely not have any young enough to be in the home.

But I wanted to post especially when I read that she said you can't forgive. It seems to me you have actually forgiven a lot. You have looked the other way many times. Her making that statement seems like a lot of deflecting.

Although I don't find a couple drinks a night (not to any level of impairment) too problematic, I would say it does sound as if she employs a lot of coping mechanisms ("needs" GNOs, drinks, excessive reassurance) and those are red flags which signify to me that she is self-medicating to cope with something. Whether repressed or unspoken abuse, a personality disorder or simply severe insecurities, she has a lot of growing up to do and for a 36 y/o who should be approaching self-actualization I'm not sure there's much hope for her without IC.

Good luck - hopefully you can have visitation with your son at the same times as your daughter so they can feel like a family unit.


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## couple

My sympathies for your situation which must be incredibly difficult given the fact that you have a son with her.

This relationship seemed poisoned beyond repair so I'm sure you did the right thing. I haven't read every post on this thread but it sounds like you were never able to get to the bottom of what is behind these comments which is a shame since you will (at the very least) have to maintain a relationship with this woman as a parent of your son. As others have said, it could have been 'simple' jealousy that caused these totally inappropriate comments or something deeper in her own background. I think your biggest issue going forward is with your son. Jealousy between separated parents of children is very common. Men with secondary custody are jealous that their exes get more time and women are often jealous that their ex gets to have "fun" visits while they shoulder the heavy lifting of parenthood. If she has unresolved issues that cause her to assume/question inappropriate contact every time she's jealous that you've bonded "too much" with your son during a visit, this can create huge problems for you in the relationship that you need to maintain with her, your relationship with your son and potentially even legal issues.

Going forward, it's likely that with new partners you will need to deal with these same issues, even if they are not presented in the same way - e.g. new partner harboring jealous or resentful feelings for your daughter but not voicing them. It's worth looking at this as a learning experience for both how you select future partners and how you might avoid 'competition' between future GFs and your daughter.

Playing devil's advocate here - there is a chance that the extreme nature of how your GF chose to communicate her issues with your daughter was an opportunity to get this out in the open. Jealousy can cause weird things to be said - for example, it's common for jealous partners to imagine all kinds of impropriety in innocent relationships with third parties (for example - "you'd rather be with your secretary than with me", etc). The fact that it's a child we are talking about makes these comments particularly unsavory and incendiary but perhaps the trigger to utter them is no different from any other kind of jealousy. I think that many women (and men) suffer in silence with similar jealousy and resentment issues with children of their partners but the unsavory and illogical nature of it prevents them from raising it. I'm certainly not saying that she was right but rather presenting this different point of view as there is at least some potential for related issues in future relationships and it's worth keeping the issue in mind to avoid it from festering.

Best of luck to you crash.


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## Faeleaf

crash test said:


> This is tough to write down, I actually feel creepy just thinking about this .... quick back story: was married for 10 years and have a wonderful 7 year old daughter from previous marriage. Marriage ended due to ex's year long infidelity 3 years ago. Met current gf 2 years ago and now have a 5 month old son together. I have 50% custody of daughter so we see her every week and she absolutely adores her baby brother. GF and I have had a very up and down 2 years due to the unplanned pregnancy, ex wife issues, divorce being ugly and drawn out, etc. Of my many concerns a major one has been the safety and security of my 7 yo in my home with GF and 5 month old. I believe that divorce is a traumatic experience for any child, of any age, and they need assurance that they are loved and are safe and secure in both households. My GF feels that it's only traumatic if the "adults" act as if it's traumatic...if the adults act as if things are normal and ok, then the child will feel things are normal and ok. We differ on this point...GF also feels that my daughter is spoiled and doesn't appreciate how good she has it financially, compared to other people... we also differ on this subject...lastly, and this came as a surprise to me last weekend, is my GF feels my affection and attention to my daughter is inappropriate. The discussion came about because the 3 of us were lying in bed together watching a family movie....my daughter was in between both of us but snuggled or leaning back against my chest using it as a sort of chair to watch the movie...the GF got upset with me later and said the way I am with my daughter... "gives her the creeps", "makes her sick to her stomach", and she even uttered the phrase: "you do everything with her you do with me except have sex"....I was beyond stunned to say the least....she specifically also mentioned that I brush or stroke her hair 5 times and it's weird...lastly, that when my daughter goes to bed, she asks me to lie down with her for 5 minutes or so until she falls asleep. It's never occurred to me these may be construed as inappropriate because she's my daughter who I love as her father with all my heart and just want her to feel loved and safe in her "other" home. Am I wrong? Is GF right? I'm actually contemplating leaving the GF because I told myself I would never let a relationship minimize my love and affection for my daughter. I never wanted to be the father who would forsake the children from his first marriage when he started a new family with a new mother...dazed and confused in CA


When I was little I was VERY close to my father. I thought he was superman, pretty much, and the feel of my hand in his was the best, most secure feeling in the world. 

When my dad married my stepmom, she did exactly what your GF did. She threw fits, saying that SHE needed to be the object of his affection, and putting herself in between us. No more cuddles. No more holding his hand on walks with the family - she absolutely forbid it. Etc.

This was unspeakably painful to me. As you said, divorce and new family dynamics can be stressful and scary to a kid. Your daughter needs the physical closeness to communicate to her that she is safe and protected and important to you. 

Don't let your GF make this about sex...there's nothing inappropriate about what you are doing. The parent-child relationship is sacred and unless you're a creep (and I assume you are not) needs to be full of physical affection and closeness. There's NOTHING wrong with that.


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## frusdil

jld said:


> This is exactly the right approach, frusdil. I am shocked by the number of posters in other threads who have _not _shown the magnanimity of character that you have.
> 
> And Happy Birthday to your little blessing!


Aw thankyou JLD, that's incredibly kind of you to say. I'm not a saint, lol, but I do love that precious girl so very much and will always put her needs first, as do her parents.

We've had our moments in the past, it hasn't all been smooth sailing but none of us have ever navigated a situation like this before and we were all doing our best. We've ironed out the kinks and worked out where we all fit in the little person's life and everything runs smoothly now


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## frusdil

Faeleaf said:


> When I was little I was VERY close to my father. I thought he was superman, pretty much, and the feel of my hand in his was the best, most secure feeling in the world.
> 
> When my dad married my stepmom, she did exactly what your GF did. She threw fits, saying that SHE needed to be the object of his affection, and putting herself in between us. No more cuddles. No more holding his hand on walks with the family - she absolutely forbid it. Etc.
> 
> This was unspeakably painful to me. As you said, divorce and new family dynamics can be stressful and scary to a kid. Your daughter needs the physical closeness to communicate to her that she is safe and protected and important to you.
> 
> Don't let your GF make this about sex...there's nothing inappropriate about what you are doing. The parent-child relationship is sacred and unless you're a creep (and I assume you are not) needs to be full of physical affection and closeness. There's NOTHING wrong with that.


Omg that it is heartbreaking! Your post made me cry...how could your stepmother be so cruel? I'm so sorry that happened to you, and I can assure you that not all step mums are like that xxx


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## RandomDude

> the GF got upset with me later and said the way I am with my daughter... "gives her the creeps", "makes her sick to her stomach", and she even uttered the phrase: "you do everything with her you do with me except have sex"....


WTF?

If a GF said that to me she's out of my property within seconds. If a mate said that to me his fking face will become my property!



> Now onto the real problem, your girlfriends thoughts are dirty and disgusting......and it would make me sick to my stomach that anyone (especially someone so close to me) would think like that.


Agreed



> What kind of a woman doesn't appreciate a great father figure?
> 
> Perhaps she is jealous cause she never got that kind of attention as a little girl?


Sure as hell doesn't excuse those comments made to OP in my opinion. Why is everyone so forgiving? Meh


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## jld

Because he left her, RD. Why holding onto anger when it is over?


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## RandomDude

Oh? Then nevermind, +1 to OP


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## crash test

I can honestly say that without the support from folks here who are literally perfect strangers, I don't think I would have had the stones to end it...my guilt over having 2 children living without their biological father 100% of the time would have kept me going in a dysfunctional relationship for a long while...I had the best "non kids" weekend I've had in a long, long, long time...The last 4 years of finding out first wife's affair with co-worker, to separation, to divorce, to getting first post divorce gf prego up until last Friday have been more stressful than even I thought....I wondered how I would sleep on Friday night and if I'd have such strong regret that I might make a phone call to gf asking to come back...nope, slept like a baby and shot 75 the next day which is a career round for me  (sorry non-golfers  ... I even got a surprise bonus day on Sunday when ex-wife called and asked I could watch daughter because she had a work emergency...there's no chance in HELL I would have been able to watch my daughter on such last minute notice if I was still with GF...she would have crucified me for even considering it (it's happened before) and GF would say I was not holding the ex to normal ex-wife boundaries...whether she was right or wrong I really don't care because when I meet my maker I'm going to remember that I got spend an unexpected afternoon with my daughter ice skating, going for a walk and watching a kids movie...and yes, she watched a few minutes of the movie sitting on my lap and I smiled to myself with the realization that I didn't have to worry about my ex gf getting jealous or creeped out...


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## crash test

I've been thinking a lot about the "forgiveness" comments I've made and read here....I think that, in time, I'll be able to forgive what she said...partly because I'm already happier and more at peace today than I was last week so there's no real point in harboring any sort of anger or hatred...partly because I will have to be in contact with ex gf for a long long while...and partly because saying something so hurtful gave me the stones to finally end a semi-abusive relationship. At the end of the day, she just didn't treat me well on a consistent basis to continue the relationship but I probably would have because we brought a life into this world together...


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## Blossom Leigh

I am SO glad you got out... red flags were SCREAMING at me that this woman could SERIOUSLY damage your daughter. :smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## Cynthia

You can now live your life and parent your children authentically and without worry about the pressure you would get for not doing how someone else thinks you should. This will not only make a huge difference in your own life, but also in the lives of your children. You will not be parenting either of them while trying to please an unreasonable person, which is never a good way to related to anyone and it likely would cause dysfunction in the children as well.


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## crash test

holy crap...ex gf emailed me this morning that she's going to Arizona to "regroup" and get her "support team" together...(I've already called my attorney by the way)...I called her cell phone and she answered it, her dad was also in the car which means he drove from Arizona over the weekend (we're in LA) and they're all driving back together. I asked her how long she was going to be and she said, "about a week sounds right but I'll let you know"...I flat out told her, "I'm concerned that you will try to establish residency in Arizona and try to keep "T" there full time"...she said no, that wasn't the case.... but for all I know she's just saying that...My attorney said in no way shape or form can she just leave CA and establish residency in another state to try and keep him full time...my skin is crawling though because she said, "I had a tough weekend by myself, I don't have a support group here like you do, I realized I can't do this by myself. He didn't have the support of his father this weekend and you abandoning us was not very appreciated"... I feel like she said the word "abandoning" on purpose to try and make some future claim that I actually did that...but again, attorney says that's definitely not the case...I filed paperwork with attorney this morning to start the custody process but I obviously can't serve her today because she drove to AZ....I'm contemplating paying the added expense to serve her in Arizona at her parents house even though I was originally going to spare her the embarrassment of being served in front of co workers or family members....If, in fact, she is trying to skip town with him and pull the "you abandoned us, I can't raise him without my family"...then I wonder if I have a case for full custody? What I mean is, couldn't I argue, "you said yourself you're incapable of taking care of him. I'm 100% capable of taking care of him and he should be with his sister as much as possible. Therefore, if you can't take care of him even only 50%, then I'll take care of him 100%."...F!


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## Blossom Leigh

Serve her in Arizona


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## COguy

Serve her in Arizona and jump on dadsdivorce.com. A little shaky since you're not married but it's generally bad advice to leave the family home if you're going for custody. She will absolutely without a doubt try to say that you abandoned her. Read "the list" from that site's forum and start keeping a journal.

Probably the faster you get your first hearing the better, you want to minimize ANY time you are not with your son, especially if she is out of state. Your temporary hearing will go something like this: "Your honor, crash test abandoned the child and didn't want anything to do with him. My client had no support from crash test and was forced to raise the child alone for the last month. We recommend keeping the status quo where my client has primary custody."

Record all interactions with her, next move would be to file a TRO out on you so that you can't be around the kid while they establish "status quo."


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## Catherine602

Move back into your home *now*. You did not intend to leave permanently anyway, right? You needed a break for a time to deal with this upsetting development regarding your daughter. You needed to make sure your gf understood before you brought you daughter back. Did you tell your lawyer about the things she said? She might make trouble on that front if this gets nasty.


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## jld

Try to trust in what your lawyer is saying, crash. I know it is hard, but try to relax. Surely the lawyer knows the laws.


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## Openminded

Does she have a job in L. A. or were you supporting her? Where was she living (mortgage or lease, etc.)?

Heading to Arizona to regroup and get her support team together sounds pretty permanent to me unless she expects them to move to L.A.


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## frusdil

crash test said:


> I even got a surprise bonus day on Sunday when ex-wife called and asked I could watch daughter because she had a work emergency...there's no chance in HELL I would have been able to watch my daughter on such last minute notice if I was still with GF...she would have crucified me for even considering it (it's happened before) and GF would say I was not holding the ex to normal ex-wife boundaries.


Oh she's a total nut job. You are your daughters father 24/7, not just on certain days of the week. That is ridiculous! I'm speechless....wow...


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## frusdil

Serve her in Arizona asap.

You're in for a rocky ride - so knuckle down and hang on.


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## Cynthia

crash test said:


> not going for custody is not in the cards...I do love my son and absolutely love the bond he and his sister are already developing after only 5 months...I agree, the gf might try and go for the jugular...on 2 occasions where we fought and discussed separating she threatened, "do you really want to spend 2 years in court fighting 2 women?"...(my ex and I have gone to court after the divorce for "change in circumstance" motions before a judge"... and my favorite, "think long and hard about your next words unless you don't want to see "T" and "S" together for years"...


It is likely that she has no intention of returning with your son. She has now taken him across state lines without your permission. Trying to get him back from another state can be near impossible. If she is gone longer than a week, you can pretty bet she has no intention of returning. Be prepared. Did you tell your attorney that she had previously threatened to take him?


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## Wolf1974

CynthiaDe said:


> It is likely that she has no intention of returning with your son. She has now taken him across state lines without your permission. Trying to get him back from another state can be near impossible. If she is gone longer than a week, you can pretty bet she has no intention of returning. Be prepared. Did you tell your attorney that she had previously threatened to take him?


This is very accurate


I have news for you friend if she establishes residency in AZ then you are going to become the get to see your kiddo in the summer and some breaks dad. Had a friend go through this, we are I'm CO and her x basically kidnapped the kids and took them back to AZ. Well her lawyer gave her horrible advice to just stay in CO and work the divorce in AZ. She lost custody of her kids cause of this. That's right she is the mother and still lost rights and became the summer and some breaks mom. 

If I were you I would have your lawyer file and emergency junction to bar her from taking your kiddo out of state. I would be doing that today.

Now if your ok with the summer and every other break thing no worries.


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## Cynthia

Wolf1974 said:


> If I were you I would have your lawyer file and emergency junction to bar her from taking your kiddo out of state. I would be doing that today.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
This is something that needs to be done immediately. Not just the custody, but demanding that she bring him back, otherwise, she has him and trying to get him back may not happen. She warned you and now she is following through. This woman is dangerous.

You might consider taking emergency leave, catching up with them and taking your son home. I wonder what the repercussions would be if you were to do that.


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## crash test

Hi all...just had a conference call with my attorney....(he's also licensed in AZ by the way)...He told me to relax for this week and 'play nice'...we have plenty of time to get rough if she decides to try and pull shenanigans. If she does what she said she'd do and comes back in a week we'll serve her the custody papers...if she lied to me and tries to stay in AZ he said we'll serve her in AZ and she'll have to come back to CA to answer the summons...a judge here in LA will not look kindly on a mother taking the son out of state 3 days after relationship with father ended. I spent last night at our house and it was so peaceful not having her there...she didn't take any of her or the baby's clothes...she did take everything that had to do with me or my daughter and stacked it all in my daughter's room ... even though I trust this attorney, he came highly highly recommended and he is freakin' expensive, I am going to follow CO's advice and check out dadsdivorce.com ... will update next week as to if/when she comes back...good times


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## Cynthia

crash test said:


> Hi all...just had a conference call with my attorney....(he's also licensed in AZ by the way)...He told me to relax for this week and 'play nice'...we have plenty of time to get rough if she decides to try and pull shenanigans. If she does what she said she'd do and comes back in a week we'll serve her the custody papers...if she lied to me and tries to stay in AZ he said we'll serve her in AZ and she'll have to come back to CA to answer the summons...a judge here in LA will not look kindly on a mother taking the son out of state 3 days after relationship with father ended.


This sounds like a reasonable plan.
What is the situation with your home? Is it leased or does one of you own it? If it is leased, is it also in your name?
It is smart for you to stay there while she is gone.


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## COguy

crash test said:


> Hi all...just had a conference call with my attorney....(he's also licensed in AZ by the way)...He told me to relax for this week and 'play nice'...we have plenty of time to get rough if she decides to try and pull shenanigans. If she does what she said she'd do and comes back in a week we'll serve her the custody papers...if she lied to me and tries to stay in AZ he said we'll serve her in AZ and she'll have to come back to CA to answer the summons...a judge here in LA will not look kindly on a mother taking the son out of state 3 days after relationship with father ended. I spent last night at our house and it was so peaceful not having her there...she didn't take any of her or the baby's clothes...she did take everything that had to do with me or my daughter and stacked it all in my daughter's room ... even though I trust this attorney, he came highly highly recommended and he is freakin' expensive, I am going to follow CO's advice and check out dadsdivorce.com ... will update next week as to if/when she comes back...good times


That's a reasonable plan from your attorney.

Make sure you read "the list". If there is anything in your house you wouldn't want destroyed in a fire, take it to a secured offsite location while she is gone.


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## crash test

from the DadDivorce.com website...makes me feel better about any attempt of Ex to establish residency in AZ:

the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction and Enforcement Act (UCCJEA). 

"The UCCJEA states that child custody litigation will occur in the child's home state, which is defined as the state where the child has lived with a parent for six consecutive months prior to the commencement of the proceeding (or since birth for children younger than six months).

Once a state court has made a custody determination, the state keeps jurisdiction over all matters "


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## Butterfly1014

Crash, honestly I have to give you kudos for fighting for your kids for one and seeing that the divorce from your first wife was going to affect your daughter and showing her extra attention. I am going through a separation right now and my husband has only seen our 4yo 4 times in a month and he has cut off ties with my children that he was part of their lives for 6 years. My 14 yo girl is so hurt but she says there is nothing she can do. I can't make him do anything, but I am glad to see there is still good guy's out there. Even if they have to deal with the crap to see their children. And will!


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## crash test

oh Butter - that kills me ...my daughter was 4 years old when I found out about her mom's affair with co-worker. The betrayal from wife was no where near as painful as knowing I wouldn't see my little girl every day for the next 14 years...I was heartbroken. I told myself then and there that I would do the best I could with the time I had with her and that I would never forsake her should I enter into a new relationship and start a new family...I've always despised those fathers who abandon their 'older' children from first marriage in favor of 'younger' children from the second. kudos to your 14 yo for the maturity to recognize that there are things you can control and other things you can not...it's his loss and probably is on some "fake high" going out and being "single"...but trust me, that feeling fades fast as a man gets older and realizes he only has so many years when his children will want to be a part of his life...at some point it will be all about themselves, their interests, their friends, their significant others and if there's no foundation between a dad and his kids from when they were young, there sure as hell won't be a relationship when he's older.


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## COguy

crash test said:


> from the DadDivorce.com website...makes me feel better about any attempt of Ex to establish residency in AZ:
> 
> the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction and Enforcement Act (UCCJEA).
> 
> "The UCCJEA states that child custody litigation will occur in the child's home state, which is defined as the state where the child has lived with a parent for six consecutive months prior to the commencement of the proceeding (or since birth for children younger than six months).
> 
> Once a state court has made a custody determination, the state keeps jurisdiction over all matters "


Don't get too excited, if the mom presents a compelling case for why she needs to move, they can switch jurisdictions. This usually doesn't happen until after the divorce but sometimes during.

Example, if you abandon the home, and she only has family and job opportunities in another state, it could create a situation where the judge allows the move in the best interest of the child. It happens every day.

There are no easy victories in custody cases, and being the proud owner of a penis can be cause for the tides to change at any moment.


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## EnjoliWoman

Wow, sorry to hear about this. A suggestion - record every conversation. I wonder if she is recording and that is why she chose to use the word "abandon". I agree you should move back in, serve her in Arizona and keep cool. And dont' say anything you wouldn't want played in court. Whether in person with her or over the phone.

Turn this around - the fact she "can't handle" having him all on her own without the support of family says a lot about her ability to parent. How many single Mom's are out there with no support? LOTS. As a parent, you do what you have to do and she needs to suck it up. Now you can show concern about her ability to parent. Doesn't matter where - she may use that as a reason to move closer to family (or not - lots of unknowns) but basically she admitted she can't parent on her own and needs her own parents nearby to help. Just like any negotiation, go for more than you expect so you can settle right where you want to be. That is, go for full time and if you get primary custody then she can move back to AZ and come pick the child up for weekend visits.


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## Cynthia

If you do not have your own copy of his birth certificate, I recommend you get one asap. Also, does your son have your last name?


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## crash test

Cynthia - I have the only copy of his birth certificate...it came in the mail this week when she went to AZ. I filled out the paperwork, paid the $58 bucks and got the notary so as far as I'm concerned I should be the one to hold on to it. She can do the same thing I did if she wants...

CO - I'm definitely not counting my chickens that everything will work out, but the conversation with atty and article on dadsdivorce at least let me breathe a little bit this week and not hyperventilate...


Enjoli - I've taken notes from our phone conversation but do you have any idea how to record the phone calls? I've tried a couple apps but they didn't work that well...I was thinking the exact same thing about her "ability" to co-parent. She said, "This weekend was very hard for me, I can't do this alone. I don't have the same support team here that you do"...my thought, from a negotiation standpoint to say, "you've admitted you can't do it alone and that I have a stronger support team here. Coupled with the fact that he has a sister and it's important for them to bond, I'll take him every weekday and we can alternate weekends"...


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## Openminded

And her counter to that will be to say she will move to AZ where she has a support system or they are coming to LA. She probably doesn't care very much whether he bonds with your daughter or not so that won't be a selling point to her. My guess is that a judge will be deciding custody. And infants generally go to mothers. Be prepared.


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## Butterfly1014

Thanks for the insight on some men it is painful to see it in her eyes but I am trying to keep up a strong sense for them. I don't want her to dispise men and be able to have healthy relationships. Our son, who is 4 won't hear me say anything negative about his dad bc there is no point. They will figure out in time who is/was there like you say. Your children are very lucky to have you.


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## COguy

Try to keep communication to written form, record it that way. California is a two-party consent state so recording phone calls and personal conversations is illegal unless you're in a public place.

Note: that I wouldn't think it a bad idea to secretly record any interaction in the case that she threatens to call the cops on you. In that case, whatever trouble you'd get in for recording would be trumped by being able to prove your innocence if and when the police show up for domestic violence.


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## happy as a clam

COguy said:


> Try to keep communication to written form, record it that way. California is a two-party consent state so recording phone calls and personal conversations is illegal unless you're in a public place.
> 
> Note: that I wouldn't think it a bad idea to secretly record any interaction in the case that she threatens to call the cops on you. In that case, whatever trouble you'd get in for recording would be trumped by being able to prove your innocence if and when the police show up for domestic violence.


^ ^ ^

THIS.. :iagree:

Record everything, and try to communicate by text as much as possible. Take screen shots of the texts, save your text threads, try to get her to let her guard down so she will SAY MORE THAN SHE WANTS TO. Bait her in a text.... "You said you can't handle parenting on your own... why not?"

Let her hang herself with her dumba$$ answers.


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## crash test

thanks CO and Happy - you're right about CA recording of phone calls, I asked my attorney and he said no, not to do it, it's illegal...so, I will try to do most of communication in written format, and I completely agree with you Happy, I was thinking those exact same lines


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## Bobby5000

WAIT EVERYBODY Agreed there seem to be a lot of things wrong with girlfriend, starting with seeing competition from your daughter. If she began the relationship with this garbage, I'd join in and say leave. Who needs to subject your lovely daughter to your girlfriends bizarre jealousy. But you have a child together. 

There are two children to consider. It may well end with leaving the girlfriend but you need to first consider counseling, talking, and a variety of other things to see whether you can resolve this things.


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## crash test

Well, shi* howdy... the ex spent first week seperated with family in AZ to "process"...then last Sunday said her boss was letting her "work remotely" for another week..today I got an e-mail saying she wants me to "have a relationship with our son, that I'm welcome to Facetime (he's 5 months by the way, pretty hard for him to Facetime) and that her door's always open." In fact, she said... "if you're not doing anything this weekend you can come to Az and see him"...Of course, I always knew this was a possibility, but reading the email made it very real. So, I called her and asked point blank if she was planning on staying in AZ...she said, "the way you abandoned us made me question if you're capable of being a father. When you left, my support team in LA was gone so I had to come to AZ. My son is only 5 months old and needs his mother and his mother needs a support team...and that support team is in AZ. And, by the way, I'm no longer working at my company." 

I alerted the attorneys and we are setting up the process server as we speak but my heart aches for the hassle, struggle, mudslinging and expense this is going to now draw out of us...last note, she said, "be very careful about what you want to come out if we go to court"...I mean seriously? Threatening me again? 

Signing out..."bummed and missing my son in LA"


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## Uptown

crash test said:


> She said, "be very careful about what you want to come out if we go to court"...I mean seriously? Threatening me again?


 Crash, I still agree with *COguy* and *JLD* that you seem to be describing the red flags for a "Cluster B" personality disorder. As I noted three weeks ago (post #76), the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational jealousy (fear of abandonment), anger issues, temper tantrums, verbal abuse, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between loving you and devaluing you -- are some of the classic traits for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).

If your exGF has strong traits of BPD, it is important you understand what you and your son are going to be dealing with -- and to consult with a professional about the risk of her passing it on to your boy. Hence, I suggest you read my description of the typical warning signs for BPD in Maybe's Thread. If that description rings a bell, it would be prudent to see a psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a professional opinion about her behavior and how to deal with it.


----------



## COguy

crash test said:


> Well, shi* howdy... the ex spent first week seperated with family in AZ to "process"...then last Sunday said her boss was letting her "work remotely" for another week..today I got an e-mail saying she wants me to "have a relationship with our son, that I'm welcome to Facetime (he's 5 months by the way, pretty hard for him to Facetime) and that her door's always open." In fact, she said... "if you're not doing anything this weekend you can come to Az and see him"...Of course, I always knew this was a possibility, but reading the email made it very real. So, I called her and asked point blank if she was planning on staying in AZ...she said, "the way you abandoned us made me question if you're capable of being a father. When you left, my support team in LA was gone so I had to come to AZ. My son is only 5 months old and needs his mother and his mother needs a support team...and that support team is in AZ. And, by the way, I'm no longer working at my company."
> 
> I alerted the attorneys and we are setting up the process server as we speak but my heart aches for the hassle, struggle, mudslinging and expense this is going to now draw out of us...last note, she said, "be very careful about what you want to come out if we go to court"...I mean seriously? Threatening me again?
> 
> Signing out..."bummed and missing my son in LA"



You're about 100 miles ahead of where I was at your time in the divorce. The faster you dispel any notions that things will go smoothly the best.

Prepare for war. Prepare to spend a **** ton of money. Prepare for it to take years and years.

If for any reason one of those things doesn't come true, it will be frosting on the cake. Spend a lot of time on dadsdivorce.com, those guys are pros and really know the system.

Listen to your lawyer but also don't forget that you have to drive him too, it's YOUR life. Sounds like it's time for an AZ service and the fastest temp hearing you can get (possibly an emergency one).


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## COguy

Uptown said:


> Crash, I still agree with *COguy* and *JLD* that you seem to be describing the red flags for a "Cluster B" personality disorder. As I noted three weeks ago (post #76), the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational jealousy (fear of abandonment), anger issues, temper tantrums, verbal abuse, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between loving you and devaluing you -- are some of the classic traits for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).
> 
> If your exGF has strong traits of BPD, it is important you understand what you and your son are going to be dealing with -- and to consult with a professional about the risk of her passing it on to your boy. Hence, I suggest you read my description of the typical warning signs for BPD in Maybe's Thread. If that description rings a bell, it would be prudent to see a psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a professional opinion about her behavior and how to deal with it.


And as it relates, pretty much any divorce with a cluster B is going to be what they call, "High conflict". So protect yourself, document everything, and be prepared for some mud slinging. Prepare yourself that she's going to use your child as leverage to hurt you. She's going to twist everything you say to make you look bad and her look good.


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## EleGirl

crash test said:


> Well, shi* howdy... the ex spent first week seperated with family in AZ to "process"...then last Sunday said her boss was letting her "work remotely" for another week..today I got an e-mail saying she wants me to "have a relationship with our son, that I'm welcome to Facetime (he's 5 months by the way, pretty hard for him to Facetime) and that her door's always open." In fact, she said... "if you're not doing anything this weekend you can come to Az and see him"...Of course, I always knew this was a possibility, but reading the email made it very real. So, I called her and asked point blank if she was planning on staying in AZ...she said, "the way you abandoned us made me question if you're capable of being a father. When you left, my support team in LA was gone so I had to come to AZ. My son is only 5 months old and needs his mother and his mother needs a support team...and that support team is in AZ. And, by the way, I'm no longer working at my company."
> 
> I alerted the attorneys and we are setting up the process server as we speak but my heart aches for the hassle, struggle, mudslinging and expense this is going to now draw out of us...last note, she said, "be very careful about what you want to come out if we go to court"...I mean seriously? Threatening me again?
> 
> Signing out..."bummed and missing my son in LA"


This is why a person should never move out of the home that their child is living in until there is an interim custody/time-sharing plan in place. 

It sounds like she will not start the process of accusing you of sexually molesting or at the very least inappropriate behavior with your daughter.

Your lawyer is going to have his work cut out for him.


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## sunvalley

COguy said:


> And as it relates, pretty much any divorce with a cluster B is going to be what they call, "High conflict". So protect yourself, document everything, and be prepared for some mud slinging. Prepare yourself that she's going to use your child as leverage to hurt you. She's going to twist everything you say to make you look bad and her look good.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

My brother-in-law went through the same **** with his ex-girlfriend and their son. He refused to marry his son's mother, due to her personality disorder and drug-n-alcohol abuse. (He did try for custody before he married my sister, but didn't get it because he had no documentation of what she was doing, and made too little money.) They were under tremendous stress, and had to borrow money at one point to pay their attorney. And at one point considered throwing in the towel. But they did not; my nephew was in a rough situation and he needed them. The only thing that ended all the mud-slinging, arguments and B.S. was BIL's ex's death.

The point? Prepare yourself for the worst. As COGuy said, document EVERYTHING. Keep a digital recorder with you if you don't like writing. Make sure all communications from her or her attorney (if she has or gets one) are in writing. Save lots of money, because I have a feeling this will get worse before it gets better. Your children need you to be a strong father, now more than ever. 

And — whatever else you do — do NOT badmouth your ex to *anyone* (except your pillow when you're all alone). I have a feeling you'll want to (and I don't blame you at all), but just protect yourself and your children. Stuff like that can get back to people in the oddest ways and at the worst of times.

Good luck and stay strong.


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## sunvalley

crash test said:


> ... today I got an e-mail saying she wants me to "have a relationship with our son, that I'm welcome to Facetime (he's 5 months by the way, pretty hard for him to Facetime) and that her door's always open." In fact, she said... "if you're not doing anything this weekend you can come to Az and see him"... she said, "the way you abandoned us made me question if you're capable of being a father. ...


:scratchhead: So, she's questioning your parenting abilities because you "abandoned them" ... but she'd still welcome your interaction with him??? That makes NO sense to me.

Yeah, this woman's a nutcase. Be *very* careful with her.


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## Cynthia

I'm sorry to hear this. Does she have a history of this sort of thing? Do you know of any ex's that would have stories about her?


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## Catherine602

She might be hinting at going to CPS. I don't know what the law is in your state but I would record all encounters with her and transcribe them. Keep the recordings secure. 

I just want to say this because I think it will help you to make the right steps going forward. It may appear that you were precipitous in leaving your home and depriving the mother and child of an important activity, help with parenting. A more prudent move might have been to seek legal advice, plan then execute. Taking special care to act like a stable, good and caring parent. 

When was the last time that you saw your son? Did you attempt to see him while your ex was still in town?during this time. If not, your relaxed attitude may be hurting you. One might ask how a father can so easily leave a child that he has seen everyday since his birth? The bond between father and child is usually so strong that it is deeply emotional to not have daily contact. I am not aware that you have made any effort to be as involved in his life from the time you left. It would be better to go over every day to take care of him. This might have an effect on the appearance of your fitness as a parent. 

Lastly, the original issue that cause the break. This presents the most danger to your relationship with both your children. Her recent threat is very serious. CPS is a very militant agency. Just read some of the news stories about them. If she does drop a dime on you, you need to consider how your relaxed attitude about seeing your son will appear. You are favoring one child over the other.

What does your lawyer think about the situation?


----------



## crash test

[QUOTE='Sounds like it's time for an AZ service and the fastest temp hearing you can get (possibly an emergency one).[/QUOTE]

We've found parents address and she's being served this week for a temporary custody hearing. Attorney's asking for Ex Parte which I guess means an emergency one to get on the calendar asap....this is such BS...imagine if I, as the father, had taken the baby out of state 3 days after breaking up to "process"...promising that I'd be back in a week...then saying sorry, it's too hard in LA without my family so I'm staying here...then I quit my job...and offered the mother to "visit when she wants but she's not allowed to take the baby from my parent's house"...There'd be a freakin' Amber alert out for me...

she's in a complete wonderland...she texts me pictures of the baby saying, "hi daddy"...as if I'm just going to sit still for this crap and let her take my son to live apart from me and his half sister...I don't care if it costs me every penny I have, I am going balls to the wall to get him back....


----------



## EleGirl

Good for you!

She is way out of line. I hope the judge gives her a very hard time. 

Be prepared for her to respond with accusations.


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## crash test

sunvalley said:


> :scratchhead: So, she's questioning your parenting abilities because you "abandoned them" ... but she'd still welcome your interaction with him??? That makes NO sense to me.
> 
> Yeah, this woman's a nutcase. Be *very* careful with her.


exactly right?!? She asked me when I wanted to come visit the baby but that I couldn't "take the child out of the house, our attorney's can work out the details"...

Plus, I didn't "abandon" anyone...I went to my bother's for the weekend, on Monday she was driving to Arizona with her father...she's the one who abandoned the house and basically kidnapped our son. I paid the August rent and am sleeping in the house as I write this...


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## crash test

CynthiaDe said:


> I'm sorry to hear this. Does she have a history of this sort of thing? Do you know of any ex's that would have stories about her?


no, don't know any of her ex's...only thing I can think of negatively that has been witnessed by other's is the drinking and some drug use at a party that she did prior to our getting together. it's been a couple of years since that party but I do know some people that were there (I wasn't there... I didn't know her then)...but the story is she did Coke and evidently got roofied by someone...her friends found her passed out in the yard. It's the only story I know of like that and it may not have any bearing because it's before we met and before she had the child but it's there I guess, should she make crap up about me in order to keep the baby in AZ. The last thing I want to do is get into a "you're a terrible person, you can't be around my child" kind of bs....from either of us...sheesh


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## EleGirl

crash test said:


> ..., should she make crap up about me in order to keep the baby in AZ. The last thing I want to do is get into a "you're a terrible person, you can't be around my child" kind of bs....from either of us...sheesh


So let's say she claims that your inappropriate with your daughter.

The response to that claim is that if this is so, why didn't she do anything about it? It's clearly not true because she did not seek any help based on that. Obviously it's a fabrication to try to keep your son from you.


----------



## sunvalley

crash test said:


> She asked me when I wanted to come visit the baby but that I couldn't "take the child out of the house, our attorney's can work out the details"...


So, does that mean -- IF you visit -- you can't even take him out to the backyard? Because technically that *is* "out of the house."  (bad joke - sorry)



crash test said:


> Plus, I didn't "abandon" anyone...I went to my bother's for the weekend, on Monday she was driving to Arizona with her father...she's the one who abandoned the house and basically kidnapped our son. I paid the August rent and am sleeping in the house as I write this...


Crash, I apologize. I wasn't implying *you* abandoned anyone. I was referring to what she called it.

Hang on tight -- this is going to be a bumpy ride. I'm praying for everyone's sake it won't be ... but I have a bad feeling it will. School yourself in a "poker face" now ... 'cause you'll need it in court, especially if she throws around wild accusations about your affectionate gestures with your daughter or (worse) calls CPS on you.

People with her kind of personality don't like to lose. And they sure as heck don't like anyone walking out on them (that implies something's wrong with THEM -- and that's something they can't face).


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## crash test

Catherine602 said:


> She might be hinting at going to CPS. I don't know what the law is in your state but I would record all encounters with her and transcribe them. Keep the tapes secure.
> 
> It may appear that you were precipitous in leaving your home and depriving the mother and child of an important activity, help with parenting.
> 
> When was the last time that you saw your son? Did you attempt to see him while your ex was still in town?
> 
> 
> What does your lawyer think about the situation?


In California it's illegal to tape a conversation without both parties agreement...therefore, everything I've done has been in e-mail form outside of 2 phone calls. Phone Call 1 was Monday after the Friday breakup, she was in the car with her Father on speakerphone and told me she was going to Az for a week. So she lied to me on that phone call. I doubt her Father will tell the truth should it ever come up thought. Phone call 2 was last week when she intimated that she wasn't coming back, I called and asked her straight up when/if she was returning so I could see him. My attorney feels confident that one parent can't take the child away from the other parent because "it's hard"...accusations of pedophilia and molestation are extremely serious, and making false accusations in order to sway a court to grant custody could be grounds for HER losing custody...not to mention quitting her job. Of course, all of this will be decided by a human being, the judge, and there are no guarantees. I'm just trying to stay strong, listen to my extremely expensive lawyer and pray to re-unite with my second little monkey


----------



## sunvalley

crash test said:


> Phone Call 1 was Monday after the Friday breakup, she was in the car with her Father on speakerphone and told me she was going to Az for a week. So she lied to me on that phone call. I doubt her Father will tell the truth should it ever come up thought. Phone call 2 was last week when she intimated that she wasn't coming back, I called and asked her straight up when/if she was returning so I could see him.


If I may: Have you written down your recollections of those phone calls, with dates and times noted? If not, I'd get a notebook and start doing that. Doesn't have to be a word-for-word transcription; just general notes, and specific phrases if you can recall them.


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## crash test

EleGirl said:


> So let's say she claims that your inappropriate with your daughter.
> 
> The response to that claim is that if this is so, why didn't she do anything about it? It's clearly not true because she did not seek any help based on that. Obviously it's a fabrication to try to keep your son from you.


exactly...also, if she was so concerned about any inappropriateness why "is my door always open for you to see "T"...and, "I really want you to have a relationship with "T"

She really shouldn't have quit her job, that will look bad....and if she falsely accuses me of something I'm going to sue her ass for full custody, defamation of character and slander...that's assuming I can, I really don't know the laws on that score but I will be royally p.o.'d...that's a despicable, horrible, criminal thing to falsely accuse someone of....I need to take a deep breath...whoooshhh


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## crash test

sunvalley said:


> So, does that mean -- IF you visit -- you can't even take him out to the backyard? Because technically that *is* "out of the house."  (bad joke - sorry)...Totally fine, I need to laugh to relieve the stress
> 
> 
> 
> Crash, I apologize. I wasn't implying *you* abandoned anyone. I was referring to what she called it.


totally understand, I was referring to her continually using the word...I'm sure her attorney or friends or someone has given her that word and she's using it like a mantra in the hope that by merely stating the word over and over again it'll become truth


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## EleGirl

crash test said:


> In California it's illegal to tape a conversation without both parties agreement...therefore, everything I've done has been in e-mail form outside of 2 phone calls. Phone Call 1 was Monday after the Friday breakup, she was in the car with her Father on speakerphone and told me she was going to Az for a week. So she lied to me on that phone call. I doubt her Father will tell the truth should it ever come up thought. Phone call 2 was last week when she intimated that she wasn't coming back, I called and asked her straight up when/if she was returning so I could see him. My attorney feels confident that one parent can't take the child away from the other parent because "it's hard"...accusations of pedophilia and molestation are extremely serious, and making false accusations in order to sway a court to grant custody could be grounds for HER losing custody...not to mention quitting her job. Of course, all of this will be decided by a human being, the judge, and there are no guarantees. I'm just trying to stay strong, listen to my extremely expensive lawyer and pray to re-unite with my second little monkey


Since she has not been served yet, why not send her an email that asks her when she's coming back or some other wording that might get her to reply that she's not coming back?


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## crash test

sunvalley said:


> If I may: Have you written down your recollections of those phone calls, with dates and times noted? If not, I'd get a notebook and start doing that. Doesn't have to be a word-for-word transcription; just general notes, and specific phrases if you can recall them.


Absolutely...I have a journal I started in March after one of our umpteenth fights and have continued into this fiasco as well...thanks!


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## crash test

EleGirl said:


> Since she has not been served yet, why not send her an email that asks her when she's coming back or some other wording that might get her to reply that she's not coming back?


good point...she has mail here...I think I'll ask something like, "you've got mail here...are you coming back to LA to pick it up in the next few days or would you like me to send it to you in Az"


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## tom67

crash test said:


> good point...she has mail here...I think I'll ask something like, "you've got mail here...are you coming back to LA to pick it up in the next few days or would you like me to send it to you in Az"


:iagree::iagree:


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## sunvalley

Okay, one more piece:

Take a FEW deep breaths. I understand you're angry, disgusted and hurt right now -- not to mention missing your kiddo -- and I don't blame you. But it's important to focus on getting full custody of your son. Suing her and all that can come later.

Trust your lawyer, keep detailed documentation (EleGirl's suggestion is an excellent one), and, if your son can speak (I don't recall how old he is offhand), try calling him every weekend or so (more often if you can). I know that sounds counterintuitive, and you probably don't want to speak to her. However, you want to show the judge YOU made an effort to keep in touch, even if she took him out of state. Write down dates and times of calls, too. If she insists on badgering you on these calls, just get off the phone as quick as you can.

Stay strong! It'll be hard, but I'm hoping for the best for all of you.


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## EleGirl

crash test said:


> good point...she has mail here...I think I'll ask something like, "you've got mail here...are you coming back to LA to pick it up in the next few days or would you like me to send it to you in Az"


Instead of "in the next few days"

"you've got mail here...when are you coming back to LA? I can save it for you."


If she says that she is not coming back in the next few days, she can always say she meant the was coming back in 2 weeks. Let her tell you that she is not coming back and needs her mail sent to her.


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## COguy

crash test said:


> exactly right?!? She asked me when I wanted to come visit the baby but that I couldn't "take the child out of the house, our attorney's can work out the details"...
> 
> Plus, I didn't "abandon" anyone...I went to my bother's for the weekend, on Monday she was driving to Arizona with her father...she's the one who abandoned the house and basically kidnapped our son. I paid the August rent and am sleeping in the house as I write this...


Don't leave the house!!


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## COguy

crash test said:


> and offered the mother to "visit when she wants but she's not allowed to take the baby from my parent's house"


Well part of it is that the system is unfair. Part of it is that you need to understand your rights.

The trick in this initial part before the temporary is to understand that for the purposes of the law, pretend that you are still together (or married). Whatever was prudent then is still prudent now.

Basically she has the right to take the child to another state and visit her family. You have the right at any point to go there and take your kid back. Now if she's at her parents house and the parents don't let you in, you can't do anything about it. But if she goes to the store and leaves the kids at the parents house, then you can call the police to get custody of your kid immediately.

I'm not suggesting you do any of this, because it all looks really silly to a judge and from what my lawyer told me, playing "keep a way" does not win you any favors in court. Ideally part of the custody decision is about who does the best job at keeping both sides of the family in contact.

But this move was foreseen, like I said the playbook is to keep you out of the loop as much as possible for the next month so that when you go to the temporary the status quo is you out of the picture. You need to go on the offensive as much as possible. If you play defense all the time you'll lose. Start making the case about how she's abandoned the house, prevented you from seeing your kids. Call her every day to talk to the son, document it, document if she DOESN'T let you talk to the kid. You may even want to go all the way down there and take her up on her offer (don't disturb the peace at all, just visit with your son, if they ask you to leave just go quietly). That would invalidate her claim pretty much 100%.

I think California is pretty progressive for parenting so you'll probably get a fair shake of things, but don't expect it to be easy. And please start preparing now for the CPS investigation. She has warned you this is what she'll do, better to be prepared than not. Tell your lawyer so he knows to be prepared for it.


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## Butterfly1014

Crash- I saw your thread and had to see if you had made any progress on getting your little boy back to CA. I can't believe how your ex is being, it isn't beneficial to your son not to bond with you when you WANT to be an ACTIVE parent. CO is right you should drive there and have parenting time with him, and even if she denies it (which looks really bad for her) it looks good you. You can't Facetime with a baby what is she thinking. I can understand if you were overseas or something but she took your mutual child out of the state and quit her job. That also wont look good in her favor. 
Documenting everything is Very important! I wish you the best of luck and how is your daughter adjusting to the present situation?


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## Cynthia

crash test said:


> The last thing I want to do is get into a "you're a terrible person, you can't be around my child" kind of bs....from either of us...sheesh


I understand that, but she is now playing hardball and if there is a history of her lying, it would help in your defense. There are people who go around lying about others, under oath, to get what they want. She sounds like one of those types of people.
The thing is, it is her word against yours and that doesn't go over well in court, which is why people are told to call 911 when there is an incident, because otherwise it is not really admissible as evidence. With a decent attorney, you should be fine.
I think you mentioned that you spoke to your attorney about the probability that she is going to lie about you and probably going to get a CPS investigation going.


crash test said:


> good point...she has mail here...I think I'll ask something like, "you've got mail here...are you coming back to LA to pick it up in the next few days or would you like me to send it to you in Az"


Asking if she wants you to send it to AZ is not going to get you a response of, “I’m not coming back,” which is what you need in writing.
Do you think she will get work in AZ or is she going to live off her parents? Does she have savings to live off of? If she gets a job in AZ, it is clear that she has moved out of state with your child, without your permission.


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## Openminded

Is the house being rented in her name, your name, or both names? In other words, is she responsible for any of the rent or utilities?


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## crash test

for the first time I actually looked at the mail that had accumulated for her...I found a letter from the post office dated August 1st confirming her request for a "change of address"...therefore, she never had any intention of returning to LA. I called the attorneys and they are filing an ex parte emergency hearing on Wednesday morning. If I win, she'll have to return my son to LA within 48 hours and I'll have full custody until the "temporary custody hearing" which could take place anywhere from 7 days to 30 days...I'm filling out the declaration now with my notes and timelines...with any luck I'll have my son with me this weekend. I've had a lot of "last straws" with her but how dare she say I can visit him at her parents "but the child can't leave the house"...is she nuts that I would just stand aside and allow my little man to live in another state and visit him inside his grandparents home whenever I fly into town? At least not without exercising every legal option I could anyway...


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## happy as a clam

crash test said:


> for the first time I actually looked at the mail that had accumulated for her...I found a letter from the post office dated August 1st confirming her request for a "change of address"...therefore, she never had any intention of returning to LA.


Way to go CT!!! Stay on it....


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## Blossom Leigh

Ummm, wow...


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## COguy

Please ignore Carla's posts. You are doing all the right things man. And your lawyer actually seems to know what he's talking about, which is good. If nothing else, her actions from the last week and a half should prove that splitting was the right decision.

As I mentioned, the best advice you will get on the custody and divorce will be at dadsdivorce.com , I highly recommend you post there.


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## P51Geo1980

COguy said:


> Please ignore Carla's posts. You are doing all the right things man. And your lawyer actually seems to know what he's talking about, which is good. If nothing else, her actions from the last week and a half should prove that splitting was the right decision.


Yup, ignore Carla. She seems to be just as delusional as your ex-gf. You're doing the right thing and it seems like you have a great lawyer in your corner!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam

CarlaRose said:


> *I have every reason to think your interpretations and the way you tell the story here are skewed*. You say your girl is good with your daughter but takes everything your daughter does out on you later on. *No one here has any reason to believe that happened* in any way other than what you told us, when the truth, *I am betting, is that you do absolutely nothing when your daughter misbehaves* or when she is disrespectful to your girlfriend, and that is what your girl complains about to you later.


:wtf:

Carla, are you for real? How can you possibly "know" any of this? You are just throwing wild accusations around, you don't know this man OR his girlfriend, in fact you don't know anything about them. 

You say "no one here has any reason to believe him"... OF COURSE we have reason to believe him, because he TOLD us. Are you suggesting he would come here and lie to a bunch of internet strangers on an anonymous forum? What would be the point of that?

You have all the same information the rest of us have, yet you have somehow come up with an entirely different conclusion. Based on what, exactly?


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## crash test

CarlaRose said:


> I have every reason to think your interpretations and the way you tell the story here are skewed. You say your girl is good with your daughter but takes everything your daughter does out on you later on. No one here has any reason to believe that happened in any way other than what you told us, when the truth, I am betting, is that you do absolutely nothing when your daughter misbehaves or when she is disrespectful to your girlfriend, and that is what your girl complains about to you later.....The truth is, she's tired of you being a useless father.
> What Every Stepmom Needs Her Husband To Know


Thanks for participating...I stopped reading the rest of your post after the sentence underlined above.


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## crash test

COguy said:


> . If nothing else, her actions from the last week and a half should prove that splitting was the right decision.
> QUOTE]
> 
> exactly...no matter what I could (or should) have done to try and stay together, there's nothing like taking my son to a different state, lying about coming back, quitting her job and telling me I can visit him anytime "but you can't take the child out of the home" to show her true colors towards me...


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## sinnister

OP - I really enjoy the entertainment CarlaRose is providing in this thread on her crusade to save all stepmothers from evil and oppression. I'm sorry it had to come at the expense of the great advice you're receiving here but I needed a laugh today so I loved reading her baseless assumptions and flat out fabrications as to what kind of a father you are.


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## CarlaRose

crash test said:


> exactly...no matter what I could (or should) have done to try and stay together, there's nothing like taking my son to a different state, lying about coming back, quitting her job and telling me I can visit him anytime "but you can't take the child out of the home" to show her true colors towards me...


She has done everything you, yourself, have done. And you did it first, no less, which actually prompted what she did since she had no choice but to respond with the new circumstances you forced on her.

You needed a support system, so you came here and did everything they told you to do.
She needed a support system, so she turned to her family and did what they told her to do.

You were angry and decided to end the relationship, so you moved in with your brother and abandoned her and your son.
She was overwhelmed with suddenly becoming a single mother and having to deal with the child, the home, the feelings of being thrown away, and everything else by herself, so she moved back home with her family.

You contacted an attorney and doing everything he instructs you behind her back because it's best she doesn't know your next move.
She has likely done the same.

You didn't tell her what you were up to.
She didn't tell you what she was up to.

So, what's the difference? Everybody has true colors. Why are hers so much worse than yours? They're not.


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## COguy

For starters, he didn't take the kid to a different state and keep her from the child. A normal person would stay where they were, keep their job, and attempt a 50/50 custody sharing arrangement.

Second, he didn't threaten her with false sexual assault charges.

That would be a good start. You could also make the case that telling someone you're moving 10 minutes away is not the same thing as moving to a different state while lying about how long you were going to stay there....but that's just semantics really.

Advice to crash: stay in your house, spend as much time with your kid as possible, document how good of a parent you are.

Advice to the ex: quit your job, take kid out of his current environment hundreds of miles away, cut all contact with father, lie about where you will be and for how long, threaten false accusations as leverage for getting what you want.

Wishing TAM had a "dislike" button....


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## crash test

Process server talked to her dad who said ex was going to try and avoid being served...my atty. got a call from hers asking to move the ex parte hearing from tomorrow to a more "convenient" time for them and confirmed that ex gf was going to ask state of Az to establish Az as residency for my son....lastly, she sent me a text that the baby is doing so good now that she's "breast feeding again"...it's been 4 months since she breast fed so yet one more "tactic" to try and keep my son from me permanently....

Hey Carla, that still sound like someone I should have stuck it out with?


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## Cynthia

Sorry to ask such a personal question, but was still lactating when she left? Do you know if she was able to express any milk at all? How long ago was he completely weaned from the breast?


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## Cynthia

She could also breastfeed in California.


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## Blossom Leigh

Carla, I would advise you to reconsider your stance that no one here has experience by which the OP could be advised. 

I for one was forced to accept the violent abuse of a step parent as acceptable and normal.

Think before you cast such broad statements.


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## crash test

I understand where you're coming from Cynthia...however, she stopped breast feeding when he was 2 months old...he'll be 6 months old early next week...so approximately 4 months on formula and every doctor appointment was fine. Healthy baby. It's so blatantly obvious to anyone except Carla that "re breast feeding" is an attempt to live in Arizona and separate him from me. 


Look (Carla) I totally and 100% get that her family is there BUT that doesn't mean his father and sister should be cut out of his life...strip away all the emotion and woulda coulda's and it's just that simple to me...


----------



## Cynthia

crash test said:


> I understand where you're coming from Cynthia...however, she stopped breast feeding when he was 2 months old...he'll be 6 months old early next week...so approximately 4 months on formula and every doctor appointment was fine. Healthy baby. It's so blatantly obvious to anyone except Carla that "re breast feeding" is an attempt to live in Arizona and separate him from me.
> 
> 
> Look (Carla) I totally and 100% get that her family is there BUT that doesn't mean his father and sister should be cut out of his life...strip away all the emotion and woulda coulda's and it's just that simple to me...


I agree. I am wondering if she could get any milk at this point. For one thing, a child his age who was only breastfed for two months could probably not breastfeed at this stage. I believe he would lose the ability to do so.
I breastfed three children exclusively. They never had any formula at all. With my first one, I worked full time and pumped. With the other two, I was a sahm. My closest friend and my sister-in-law both worked full time and breastfed. My point is that breastfeeding can be done by women who are working full time and she can breastfed just as easily in CA as she can in AZ. If she's that dedicated to breastfeeding (which I seriously doubt and think she's lying about breastfeeding), she does not need to be in AZ to do that, so it's just a scam anyway. This can easily be proven.
Also, has she been on hormonal birth control recently? If so, that would dry up her milk unless she takes a particular type of pill.
This breastfeeding thing is a non-issue. She is grasping at straws. I wouldn't give her one extra minute to attend the hearing. She doesn't have a leg to stand on.


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## Cynthia

The little boy needs his immediate family. His needs to be with his family are more important than his mother's needs to be with her family. If you were an absent dad who didn't care or if you were simply trying to manipulate her that would be one thing, but that's not the case at all. This boy needs his dad as much as he needs his mom. And he needs to be able to grow up with his sister.


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## CarlaRose

crash test said:


> It's so blatantly obvious to anyone except Carla that "re breast feeding" is an attempt to live in Arizona and separate him from me.
> 
> Look (Carla) I totally and 100% get that her family is there BUT that doesn't mean his father and sister should be cut out of his life...strip away all the emotion and woulda coulda's and it's just that simple to me...


I don't know what you keep crying about or why you think you will get full custody.

She's not trying to keep him from you. She couldn't do that if she wanted to, so it wouldn't even make sense for her to try. She has an attorney who is advising her. Just like you, she's doing what her attorney tells her to do. Yes, it is a ploy, but it's a ploy to help them get Arizona as the jurisdiction state. Nothing more than that. Neither her attorney nor the State of Arizona would keep you from your child. They can't. You will get visitation just the same as if she'd never left California. 

You're the one being controlling and manipulative. I understand you're afraid and don't want to be beaten, but you are going to gain no more and lose no more than you would anyway. You're the one who started all this. You're the one who played hard ball. Again, she is just following your lead and going along with YOUR program. I don't know why you expect she was supposed lay down and just take it all from you. She didn't cry and hollar and scream and beg you not to leave her, so are you angry about that? You're supposed to do everything you want and be as mean as you want, but she's not supposed to do anything? This is how ugly it can get when you get ugly, which you did.

And yes, you were supposed to try to make it work with her because she had no idea the kind of man she was with until you showed YOUR true colors.


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## Catherine602

Carla - I think she should just move on with her life and work on co-parenting with her ex bf. If she feels as you describe, why does she want back in the life of these two people? He will never give up his close relationship with a normal lovely 7 yo daughter for a woman. I think he is right. In a D, a child should have first place especially when a step-parent is involved and the person is envious of the child. 

His gf would be best to go back to work so that she can contribute to the support of the child. I am certain she wants to do what's best for her child. Being angry, vindictive and unreasonable will not help her reach that goal.


----------



## ranaz2

OP - please get some individual counseling before you dive back into the dating pool. You had some legitimate questions in your original post, but were totally misled by some dramatic and clueless responses. There is no doubt that you are a loving father, but if you choose to have an adult partner, you will need to figure out how to walk and chew gum at the same time. You can be a great dad and a great partner. Have you considered the possibility that you coddle your daughter? Or that your daughter may be jealous of your GF? It is one thing to be attentive, another to coddle. Seems you feel guilty about your divorce and you are assuming the child is traumatized - she will take her cues from you. Your GF was right about that. You just need to be a solid parent, you don't need to "make up" for your guilt. I'm not saying that the specific behaviors in your original post are wrong - my guess is that your GF made the comments she did based on an overall experience with you, not just b/c of one movie night. And when something isn't right and it is sometimes easier to speak in concrete terms and she used two examples. But I think the overall message got lost in the specific examples and both of you fixating on those examples put your relationship in a downward spiral. The vulchers on this forum didn't help. In addition to learning more about how not to be a "guilty dad", you should also learn about daughters who become a "mini wife" - look it up. Not saying your daughter is one now but I assure you, you do not want her to become one...for her sake and the sake of any future relationships you might have. You will have to give this relationship thing some more thought and I do think you should consider counseling...because one day, your daughter will have a life of her own. If you are unable to figure out how to be in a relationship AND parent at the same time, then you will be one lonely person.


----------



## crash test

I've said my piece...nothing I do with my daughter is inappropriate and I feel sorry for any child who receives less affection from her father than mine does. I'm going to assume Carla's in that category. 

I appreciate those who've given me advice without rancor or insults on both sides of this situation....to the others, bite it


----------



## lovelost2soon

I see nothing wrong in anything you are doing. My husband used to lay with our daughter too at night, or watching a movie. I think it's sick that she finds that offensive. I loved seeing the bond my daughter had with her father, she would lay next to him on the couch with her head on his stomach and watch tv and she was 7! Your gf seems to have some deep rooted issues. I personally would never let a bf get in between me and my children so I wish you the best of luck in your decision.


----------



## EleGirl

Chandla said:


> In most states, an unmarried Mother has full, total and complete custody without doing one single thing. The act of giving birth gives that child solely to her until, if or when the man files for some sort of custody. So, your girlfriend did nothing wrong. Legally. She doesn't have to make excuses for where she takes him. .


The OP's name is on the birth certificate. He does not need to go to court to prove paternity.

They were living together. So the child with living with both legal parents. He has as much right to the child as she does. That's already established.



Chandla said:


> Some of you bash Carla about her not knowing this guy or his girlfriend or their situation. That sure didn't stop many of you from doing a psych evaluation of his girlfriend, of telling him that he's abused, that's she's a Cluster B, bs bs bs.
> 
> I personally do find some creepiness in the 'handling' of his daughter. It's not an allegation made with any lightness, so I would be willing to bet that if we heard from her, we'd hear an entirely different story...with a whole lot more 'creep' to it.
> 
> Please do not forget...his side is not the only side. Not even close. I would really love to hear what she has to say about HIM.


What you do not understand is that the OP has the right to decide that he does not want to stay in that relationship. That's his choice.

His mistake was that he let her know that he was leaving her before he saw a lawyer to establish a parenting plan.


----------



## EleGirl

This is very interesting.. we have a group of posters from some other forum come here with an attempt to do crash and shut down this thread.

Then suddenly someone posts that she's the ex-gf?

Talk about drama....


----------



## crash test

EleGirl said:


> I'm hoping that the OP can verify that this is or is not the ex-girlfriend.



it's not my ex...no dog or stairs...I've appreciated the folks who have honestly tried to help but this has gotten super weird so signing off on responding...good luck to you all...especially CO, Butterfly, Ele and others who have used this forum in good faith.


----------



## EleGirl

What is appropriate affection to show your child | Step Talk



And here is the thread where CarlaRose called out her minioins to come crash this thread.
http://www.steptalk.org/node/195471

I bet you won't believe this crap 
Submitted by sueu2 on Tue, 08/12/2014 - 6:23pm 

Carla = Sueu2.


----------



## AliceA

Just checked out some of the responses on that thread. Men apparently aren't allowed to show affection to their daughters. I'm appalled.


----------



## Jasel

Could you guys please stick to your own steptalk forum instead of thread jacking this one?? It would be much appreciated as clearly none of the members on this site agree with what you or Carla have to say about crash's situation (including me) and it's obvious minds are not going to be changed.. Thanks.


----------



## Dollystanford

Yeah my ex had one of those girlfriends who threw a tantrum every time he wanted to see my daughter. Don't get me wrong, I thought she was an immature, jealous, pathetic excuse for a woman (50 years old for god's sake) but I blamed him 100% for letting her dictate to him

In fact they were both massive losers, how about that


----------



## COguy

P51Geo1980 said:


> I think it's side-splittingly hilarious that a bunch of teenage girls (they're not women) on steptalk are so incredibly jealous and threatened by their step children. After spending quite a bit of time reading through a bunch of posts on that forum, I have come to the conclusion that these women are so insecure in their marriages or relationships that they project that insecurity onto their step-children through jealousy and competition. Greatly entertaining though.


No, you're just a baby-coddling, child molester.

You hug your daughter?? That means you hate your SO and want to marry your kids (whats the opposite of the Oedipus Complex?)

After reading some threads on there, these women seem to be unable to separate things which are clearly inappropriate (showering and laying naked together into school age), with things that are quite normal and healthy (ie letting your children lay next to you in their pajamas while watching tv or going to bed.

I've been to 3 child psychologists and all 3 of them have told me stories about their kids snuggling with them in bed as late as 10 years old. One had a PHD from Duke....but I guess she was just a closet molester with bad boundaries too right?


----------



## Jellybeans

This thread reminds of that movie Burning Palms. The first story.

OP - the seed has been planted in her head. I'd consider not continuing a relationship with this woman.


----------



## Hope1964

What I find hard to believe is that these TAMcrashers haven't all been banned and their disgusting posts eliminated. Maybe if the mods had stepped in the OP wouldn't have been run off by people who have NO BUSINESS even BEING on TAM.


----------



## Cynthia

Hope1964 said:


> What I find hard to believe is that these TAMcrashers haven't all been banned and their disgusting posts eliminated. Maybe if the mods had stepped in the OP wouldn't have been run off by people who have NO BUSINESS even BEING on TAM.


The mods are not on 24/7 and they only know that stuff like this is happening if people file reports.


----------



## happy as a clam

Hope1964 said:


> What I find hard to believe is that these TAMcrashers haven't all been banned and their disgusting posts eliminated. Maybe if the mods had stepped in the OP wouldn't have been run off by people who have NO BUSINESS even BEING on TAM.


Completely agree. This is a MARRIAGE forum; these crashers have managed to turn this thread into a diatribe on STEP-PARENTING. While that's certainly an issue for OP, the gist of his post was in regards to his RELATIONSHIP with his girlfriend.

*Hoping that lots of people will report this circus.*

*ugh*


----------



## EleGirl

Hope1964 said:


> What I find hard to believe is that these TAMcrashers haven't all been banned and their disgusting posts eliminated. Maybe if the mods had stepped in the OP wouldn't have been run off by people who have NO BUSINESS even BEING on TAM.


Yep, Crash_Test is gone. 

On the other forum they are saying that they think his story is false. They are accusing him of being a troll over here.


----------



## Eagle3

I think i have officially seen it all on TAM now. Agree or not with the OP its a shame he was asking and getting adivce and was run off on his own thread.

Kudos to EleGirl who got her Det Lenny Briscoe on and found out all these people on here. 

This Step-mother group came in here looking for a rumble. I expected to see someone named Pony Boy login name. Sheesh.


----------



## Davelli0331

Eagle3 said:


> I think i have officially seen it all on TAM now. Agree or not with the OP its a shame he was asking and getting adivce and was run off on his own thread.


Oh, just wait. As soon as you think TAM can't get anymore surrealistically dumb, it proves you wrong.


Eagle3 said:


> This Step-mother group came in here looking for a rumble. I expected to see someone named Pony Boy login name. Sheesh.


Nice Outsiders reference!


----------



## Almostrecovered

Stay gold Crashtest


----------



## happy as a clam

crash test... if by chance you are still reading, you can individually BLOCK each member in the swarm of trolls who recently sabotaged your thread.

That way, you can still post but none of THEIR posts will be visible to you in the thread.

In fact, I suggest we ALL do the same.

Crash, I hope you return.


----------



## Maricha75

Almostrecovered said:


> "my daughter was in between both of us but snuggled or leaning back against my chest using it as a sort of chair to watch the movie"
> 
> 
> inappropriate cuddling?!?!
> 
> 
> better call CPS
> 
> 
> call them on me too, because both my sons did the same thing with me and my wife


My 13 year old son still hugs and kisses me. I still cuddle my almost 8 year old daughter, as does my husband. Same with our 6 year old son. Sad that there is actually a board with such sick and twisted women, hellbent on finding inappropriate behaviors when there ARE NONE! Good lord, people! *smdh*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Maricha75

Oh, and I'm 39 and still hug and kiss my dad whenever I see him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

Maricha75 said:


> Oh, and I'm 39 and still hug and kiss my dad whenever I see him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


even though he's all wrinkly? ewwwww


----------



## COguy

Maricha75 said:


> Oh, and I'm 39 and still hug and kiss my dad whenever I see him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Molester!!


----------



## karole

Maricha75 said:


> Oh, and I'm 39 and still hug and kiss my dad whenever I see him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm 51 and I still hug and kiss my dad too!


----------



## P51Geo1980

Maricha75 said:


> Oh, and I'm 39 and still hug and kiss my dad whenever I see him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm 34, a dude, and I still give my dad (and mom) a kiss when I see them. Maybe weird for some Americans (LOL step talk) but seeing as we immigrated from Europe, it's totally normal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Coffee Amore

This thread is a mess. I'm going to close it temporarily while I go through the posts.


----------



## Coffee Amore

Massive clean up from the threadjack is done. I contacted the OP to post an update, if he so wishes.

Please stick to the topic at hand. Flaming, trolling and inciting are against the forum rules. Those responsible have been banned. Banning will continue until morale improves.


----------



## Openminded

Thanks for reopening. Hope OP returns.


----------



## happy as a clam

Awesome!!! Crash, I hope you return!!! You are now famous on TAM!!


----------



## ILoveSparkles

Coffee Amore said:


> Massive clean up from the threadjack is done. I contacted the OP to post an update, if he so wishes.
> 
> Please stick to the topic at hand. Flaming, trolling and inciting are against the forum rules. Those responsible have been banned. Banning will continue until morale improves.


Excellent! I am obviously not a mod, but I am wondering if it would be a good idea to just delete those posts. I say this because if someone new starts reading and responds to one of the banned users, without reading to the end of the thread it might open the can of worms again.


----------



## P51Geo1980

Yes said:


> Excellent! I am obviously not a mod, but I am wondering if it would be a good idea to just delete those posts. I say this because if someone new starts reading and responds to one of the banned users, without reading to the end of the thread it might open the can of worms again.


I think the majority of the posts by the banned users have been deleted, some are still up - but the offending posters appear to have been banned. THANKFULLY! 

Thank you Coffee Amore! I didn't post much on this thread, but i was interested in the outcome of the OP.


----------



## crash test

Hi guys - i received a private email that Carla and friends had been banned but they'll probably be back with new and different usernames....whatever....im truly moved by some of the posts of support here. Quick update- i guess theres no reason to believe me but this story is absolutely true, i wish it wasnt... But this s my life rght now ....The ex parte hearing was moved from today to tomorrow morning due to her attorney asking for an extra day...lastly, her parents showed up at the house today with a moving van and packed up her stuff. Tomorrow is a big day for me, hoping i get to be with my little man soon...its been since July 25th since ive seen him
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

crash test said:


> Hi guys - i received a private email that Carla and friends had been banned but they'll probably be back with new and different usernames....whatever....im truly moved by some of the posts of support here. Quick update- i guess theres no reason to believe me but this story is absolutely true, i wish it wasnt... But this s my life rght now ....The ex parte hearing was moved from today to tomorrow morning due to her attorney asking for an extra day...lastly, her parents showed up at the house today with a moving van and packed up her stuff. Tomorrow is a big day for me, hoping i get to be with my little man soon...its been since July 25th since ive seen him
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Awe man


----------



## lovelost2soon

Fingers crossed you get to see him soon. Keep us posted.


----------



## sunvalley

crash test said:


> ...lastly, her parents showed up at the house today with a moving van and packed up her stuff.


If that doesn't show she has no intention of returning to California, I don't know what does.

Best of luck to you, crash!


----------



## EleGirl

crash test said:


> Hi guys - i received a private email that Carla and friends had been banned but they'll probably be back with new and different usernames....


On the step parent forum they were talking about already having more than one name over here. Who knows.


----------



## EleGirl

crash test said:


> The ex parte hearing was moved from today to tomorrow morning due to her attorney asking for an extra day...lastly, her parents showed up at the house today with a moving van and packed up her stuff. Tomorrow is a big day for me, hoping i get to be with my little man soon...its been since July 25th since ive seen him


Did you know that they were coming? Or did they just show up?

One more piece of evidence that proves that she has no intent to moving back to CA.


----------



## Almostrecovered

*GF thinks affection with 7yo from my prev marriage inappropriate, I don't..am...*



crash test said:


> Hi guys - i received a private email that Carla and friends had been banned but they'll probably be back with new and different usernames....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Why don't you PM to the mod to move this into private? That way if they come back they'll have to "work" to access the thread and hopefully be caught by that point


----------



## frusdil

Thinking of you Crash...please update us and let us know how it goes.

I really hope it all works out for you, your daughter and your son.

Good luck xx


----------



## EleGirl

*Re: GF thinks affection with 7yo from my prev marriage inappropriate, I don't..am...*



Almostrecovered said:


> Why don't you PM to the mod to move this into private? That way if they come back they'll have to "work" to access the thread and hopefully be caught by that point


Private will not help. The stepmother trolls know about it. Some have accounts here with access to private. They were not all banned or permanently banned.

That's why I suggested a private group. Crash Test could keep this thread in private to let folks know that he's got something he wants input on and general discussion. But have a private group for detailed stuff.


----------



## happy as a clam

I, for one, am enjoying the ABSENCE of these hens on this (and other) threads...

Probably just a matter of time before they swoop back in. Good detective work, EleGirl.

:smthumbup:


----------



## Almostrecovered

*Re: GF thinks affection with 7yo from my prev marriage inappropriate, I don't..am...*



EleGirl said:


> Private will not help. The stepmother trolls know about it. Some have accounts here with access to private. They were not all banned or permanently banned.
> 
> That's why I suggested a private group. Crash Test could keep this thread in private to let folks know that he's got something he wants input on and general discussion. But have a private group for detailed stuff.



it'll help with any of the new trolls that they try to send over

and if people are diligent with anyone who attempts to post in it again can report them and they will eventually get a permaban if they persists if they havent already


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Good luck, I know how it is to have your kid gone. It is tough, but you can do it. I ended up raising my daughter for 13 of her 17 non-adult years, so I'm sending you good will.


----------



## luv2luv

happy as a clam said:


> I, for one, am enjoying the ABSENCE of these hens on this (and other) threads...
> 
> Probably just a matter of time before they swoop back in. Good detective work, EleGirl.
> 
> :smthumbup:


Yeah seriously EleGirl to the rescue. I was watching the interaction with the posters get more and more insane, and it made no sense until Ele posted the link to their thread showing their insane need to be right and convince Crash he was somehow a terrible person/dad.


----------



## crash test

the judge ruled to leave my son in his current circumstance. He did make an order to "fast track" the custody hearing which is now set for 9/19. He said that the child isn't in "immediate danger" which as much as it pains me to not see my son for another 5 weeks, it is true, he's not in immediate danger.

I was, of course, crushed that he wasn't returned to LA immediately but we're planning 2 trips to Arizona to see him before the hearing...I have a great support team here, there are 7 families coming out with me on our second trip and we're planning a big party to have with him...

I debated giving this update due to the joy it will give to the wicked stepmother clan but I've had too many private messages of support to not provide an update. I'm going to spend the next few weeks prepping for the hearing and praying that justice will prevail...no matter the reason for a father and mother breaking up, one of the parents shouldn't be allowed to quit her job and take the child to mommy and daddy in another state simply because it's "too hard" for her...if she can't care for him even 50% of the time, the father should be the primary caretaker, not grandma and grandpa


----------



## frusdil

For what it's worth Crash, I'm a step mum, and I fully support your fight for your son. Not all step mums are like those who posted 

It's not right for either parent to deprive their child of their other parent for no good reason. It's the child who suffers in the end.

Men get shafted all the time in divorce/custody cases, it's so unfair.


----------



## EleGirl

frusdil said:


> For what it's worth Crash, I'm a step mum, and I fully support your fight for your son. Not all step mums are like those who posted
> 
> It's not right for either parent to deprive their child of their other parent for no good reason. It's the child who suffers in the end.
> 
> Men get shafted all the time in divorce/custody cases, it's so unfair.


I'm a step mom too.. have been for 17 years.

As Crash said, no matter why the parents break up, one parent should not have the right to run off with child(ren).

I so make a caveat.. if it's to truly protect that child from real abuse (not phantom abuse) then I can understand. Other than that... nope.


----------



## frusdil

EleGirl said:


> I'm a step mom too.. have been for 17 years.
> 
> As Crash said, no matter why the parents break up, one parent should not have the right to run off with child(ren).
> 
> I so make a caveat.. if it's to truly protect that child from real abuse (not phantom abuse) then I can understand. Other than that... nope.


Agreed


----------



## EleGirl

Crash,

I feel for you on this and do not understand how the courts can allow it. A parent to runs with the child should be slapped and slapped hard legally.


----------



## crash test

frusdil said:


> For what it's worth Crash, I'm a step mum, and I fully support your fight for your son. Not all step mums are like those who posted
> 
> It's not right for either parent to deprive their child of their other parent for no good reason. It's the child who suffers in the end.
> 
> Men get shafted all the time in divorce/custody cases, it's so unfair.


I remember your post early on that your love and affection to your stepdaughter is as real as if she were your flesh and blood and frankly, made me realize that's what I want and expect from a partner. You're the type of stepmom I want for my kids, not Carla's wicked stepmother group...Carla probably rooted for one of Cinderella's stepsisters to get the prince


----------



## frusdil

crash test said:


> I remember your post early on that your love and affection to your stepdaughter is as real as if she were your flesh and blood and frankly, made me realize that's what I want and expect from a partner. You're the type of stepmom I want for my kids, not Carla's wicked stepmother group...Carla probably rooted for one of Cinderella's stepsisters to get the prince


Aw thankyou 

I do love my daughter (hate the 'step' term) as if she were my blood. My hubby is away for 2 weeks for work and the 50/50 custody arrangement still stands - she will be here with me as normal during the time he's away. We are a family, I love her and she loves me 

Don't accept anything less than a genuine love for your children from a future step mum. I feel very strongly that if someone doesn't love their partners children, they should not marry their mother/father.


----------



## COguy

crash test said:


> the judge ruled to leave my son in his current circumstance. He did make an order to "fast track" the custody hearing which is now set for 9/19. He said that the child isn't in "immediate danger" which as much as it pains me to not see my son for another 5 weeks, it is true, he's not in immediate danger.
> 
> I was, of course, crushed that he wasn't returned to LA immediately but we're planning 2 trips to Arizona to see him before the hearing...I have a great support team here, there are 7 families coming out with me on our second trip and we're planning a big party to have with him...
> 
> I debated giving this update due to the joy it will give to the wicked stepmother clan but I've had too many private messages of support to not provide an update. I'm going to spend the next few weeks prepping for the hearing and praying that justice will prevail...no matter the reason for a father and mother breaking up, one of the parents shouldn't be allowed to quit her job and take the child to mommy and daddy in another state simply because it's "too hard" for her...if she can't care for him even 50% of the time, the father should be the primary caretaker, not grandma and grandpa


Bad news.

Start a post (if you haven't already) on dadsdivorce.com .

The judge is setting a precedent here that you will not have had any contact with the child for 8-12 weeks (your ex will most assuredly get the hearing continued for any host of "valid" reasons. The child's not in danger, so of course the judge will grant these "reasonable requests"). That defacto makes the mom the primary custodian. I strongly suggest you do whatever you can to spend as much time with your son as you can, even if that means driving to AZ.

This is how the reasoning goes:

1. Child's not in "danger" in AZ, mom can stay in AZ until the first temporary hearing.
2. Mom delays temp hearing
2. Child's been doing "just fine" in AZ without a father for 8-12 weeks. Moving back would be very hard on the mother
3. We'll keep this as the arrangement until the final hearing.
4. Final hearing rolls around "We've been the primary custodian for 18 months your honor, why change the status quo?"
5. Judge makes you an Every Other Weekend dad
6. Mom makes your life hell and alienates you from son until you never see him.

Not sure your communication but if you want to talk settlement, if you can get a 50/50 out of her now before the temp that's good news. Consider you're going to spend tens of thousands in legal fees fighting this, especially if she gets the upper hand in the first temporary hearing.


----------



## EleGirl

If only you could move the AZ at least temporarily.

My company has facilities in CA & AZ. So we have staff members who live in CA and in AZ. They have a house in one place and a trailer in the other. They go back and forth weekly.


----------



## EleGirl

What kind of custody and visitation were you awarded in that hearing?

Surely your attorney can go back now and ask that you have structured visitation/custody even now.


----------



## Butterfly1014

Goodness Crash I am not on for a bit your thread gets high jacked by angry step-trolls and you have to wait longer for the hearing for your baby boy. I'm glad you have planned a few trips out to see him in AZ is your D going along to? Keep your head up. That's what I'm doing, wish my little guys dad wanted to make time to see him.


----------



## COguy

EleGirl said:


> What kind of custody and visitation were you awarded in that hearing?
> 
> Surely your attorney can go back now and ask that you have structured visitation/custody even now.


Most likely they didn't specify. Emergency hearing is kind of an all or nothing thing from what I understand. Either he was going to order her to move back or give the kid to the father or he was going to let things stay the way they are until the first temp hearing.


----------



## Cynthia

crash test said:


> the judge ruled to leave my son in his current circumstance. He did make an order to "fast track" the custody hearing which is now set for 9/19. He said that the child isn't in "immediate danger" which as much as it pains me to not see my son for another 5 weeks, it is true, he's not in immediate danger.
> 
> I was, of course, crushed that he wasn't returned to LA immediately but we're planning 2 trips to Arizona to see him before the hearing...I have a great support team here, there are 7 families coming out with me on our second trip and we're planning a big party to have with him...
> 
> I debated giving this update due to the joy it will give to the wicked stepmother clan but I've had too many private messages of support to not provide an update. I'm going to spend the next few weeks prepping for the hearing and praying that justice will prevail...no matter the reason for a father and mother breaking up, one of the parents shouldn't be allowed to quit her job and take the child to mommy and daddy in another state simply because it's "too hard" for her...if she can't care for him even 50% of the time, the father should be the primary caretaker, not grandma and grandpa


Is this a CA judge or an AZ judge? Since she took him from his home in CA shouldn't it be a CA judge that rules on this case?
How do you plan to handle seeing your son if they won't let you take him out of his grandparent's home?


----------



## crash test

EleGirl said:


> What kind of custody and visitation were you awarded in that hearing?


Co is right, no custody or visitation was ordered...the only "order" was that the hearing for the Temporary Custody is "fast tracked" although waiting more weeks doesn't seem fast to me.


----------



## crash test

COguy said:


> Bad news.
> 
> Start a post (if you haven't already) on dadsdivorce.com .
> 
> Not sure your communication but if you want to talk settlement, if you can get a 50/50 out of her now before the temp that's good news. Consider you're going to spend tens of thousands in legal fees fighting this, especially if she gets the upper hand in the first temporary hearing.


I hadn't before but starting one on dadsdivorce.com tonight...I'm sure she'd go for 50/50 if I lived in Az and she could stay there but that's totally unreasonable, I have a 7 year old daughter here in LA...the fact that my daughter is also obviously his sister and she's taken him away from not only me but her too is shameful to a degree I can't even begin to describe. I'm so so so happy I broke it off with her. She has totally and completely showed me her true colors. Her "open door" policy to Facetime "whenever" is also BS. We tried calling her this morning but she said she was going to a mommy and me yoga...so we agreed to facetime at 3:00 but we couldn't get the damn thing to work so we called 3 times at exactly 3:20...she sent a text at 3:24 saying she had to reschedule her day to let us facetime and didn't appreciate that we were late and now they are walking out the door. From now on, I'll make sure there's a 30 minute window of time to "facetime" with a 6 month old


----------



## EleGirl

crash test said:


> I hadn't before but starting one on dadsdivorce.com tonight...I'm sure she'd go for 50/50 if I lived in Az and she could stay there but that's totally unreasonable, I have a 7 year old daughter here in LA...the fact that my daughter is also obviously his sister and she's taken him away from not only me but her too is shameful to a degree I can't even begin to describe. I'm so so so happy I broke it off with her. She has totally and completely showed me her true colors. Her "open door" policy to Facetime "whenever" is also BS. We tried calling her this morning but she said she was going to a mommy and me yoga...so we agreed to facetime at 3:00 but we couldn't get the damn thing to work so we called 3 times at exactly 3:20...she sent a text at 3:24 saying she had to reschedule her day to let us facetime and didn't appreciate that we were late and now they are walking out the door. From now on, I'll make sure there's a 30 minute window of time to "facetime" with a 6 month old


She's using the child to punish you. Despicable woman.

Right now she is feeling pretty entitled because of the court order.

Why do you even think that she is going to allow you to have anytime with your child when you go there?

If I were you I'd record all phone conversations and have a VAR on you when you go to AZ.


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## COguy

crash test said:


> I hadn't before but starting one on dadsdivorce.com tonight...I'm sure she'd go for 50/50 if I lived in Az and she could stay there but that's totally unreasonable, I have a 7 year old daughter here in LA...the fact that my daughter is also obviously his sister and she's taken him away from not only me but her too is shameful to a degree I can't even begin to describe. I'm so so so happy I broke it off with her. She has totally and completely showed me her true colors. Her "open door" policy to Facetime "whenever" is also BS. We tried calling her this morning but she said she was going to a mommy and me yoga...so we agreed to facetime at 3:00 but we couldn't get the damn thing to work so we called 3 times at exactly 3:20...she sent a text at 3:24 saying she had to reschedule her day to let us facetime and didn't appreciate that we were late and now they are walking out the door. From now on, I'll make sure there's a 30 minute window of time to "facetime" with a 6 month old


Just keep documenting all of this, if you end up in a custody battle it will be important to establish that she is not going to foster a relationship with you.

You also need to start preparing mentally for another 17 and a half years of alienation and bad coparenting. Obviously she is going to make your life insanely difficult. Make sure before you start investing in this financially that you know whether or not you're going to stick it out if it gets worse.

What I mean is, you could end up spending $50-$100K fighting for 50/50 of your son. If you're going to give up after 1-2 years because she is alienating you from the child or making your life a living hell, then don't go down that path. You're also jeopardizing your life with your daughter as well, since you're going to be racking up major debt with this. I'm not saying it to dissuade you, just make sure you are committed before you blow your wad.


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## happy as a clam

COguy said:


> What I mean is, you could end up spending $50-$100K fighting for 50/50 of your son. If you're going to give up after 1-2 years because she is alienating you from the child or making your life a living hell, then don't go down that path.


:iagree:

COguy is right. Custody battles are INSANELY expensive and tend to drag on for years. During my divorce, ex threatened to go for sole custody of our daughter who was 15 at the time, purely out of spite. After I threw the statistics his way (the cost, the time involved, the fact that he would lose anyway -- AND the fact that she would likely turn 18 before the d*mn case was ever settled) he quickly backed off from it.

There is no reason to believe the judge would award either of you sole custody in the end anyway. In the meantime you would likely be paying her "temporary" child support on top of ridiculous custody legal fees while the case drags on.


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## COguy

I generally agree Happy but if the mom in this case is insistent on living in AZ, very likely one of these two is going to be an EOW (every other weekend) parent.


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## Blossom Leigh

It does make me really sad for you Crash. My mother made it extremely difficult for our birth Dad to stay connected to us until he gave up when we were 12/14 to focus on his new family. She abused him and his family for years in different ways. His biggest regret was giving up because we were being abused by our Step Dad and he didn't know it. He does now and rebuilt his relationship with me as an adult. He and my brother don't have a relationship because my brother is still living in the fog of my mother's psychological abuse. There is so much that cannot be anticipated in your situation. The legal system is changing for the better than where it was when my birth Dad was trying to stay engaged with us (I'm 45). I hope your situation is WAY WAY better and that the law strengthens your position.


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## Openminded

I don't know how unmarried relationships are legally viewed in CA and AZ when it comes to the rights of the father, but I feel this case was pretty predictable. The child is an infant and the mother chose to return to her family in AZ. I would be surprised if the judge gives more than every other weekend visitation.


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## EleGirl

Openminded said:


> I don't know how unmarried relationships are legally viewed in CA and AZ when it comes to the rights of the father, but I feel this case was pretty predictable. The child is an infant and the mother chose to return to her family in AZ. I would be surprised if the judge gives more than every other weekend visitation.


Generally, it makes difference if the father is on the birth certificate and if he has a relationship established with the child. In this sort of case it's more likely that the father's concerns will be take into consideration.

One issue in Crash's case is that his son is only a few months old.


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## happy as a clam

crash... are you still here?


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