# Need marriage advice!!



## CuddleBug

Since the day my wife and I got married 13+ years ago, she's had a very low sex drive and is a bigger girl.

Over that time period. we've fought many times about her lack on interest in sex and her size.

I've listened more, cuddled more, random cards and flowers, surprise dinners, chores being done a little each day without being asked, helping her without being asked, taking the initiative and getting things done for our place, being more alpha male, you 
name it.

If I don't initiate sex, we have sex maybe 1x month. I need sex almost every day because I am high drive. If I initiate often, she usually says no, later, maybe tomorrow, etc.

I weight train and eat healthy and she does nothing and eat okay.

We both work full time jobs, have our own cars and money isn't an issue. No kids yet, just a cat.

I have stopped initiating because I've had enough of this and the sex then is 1x month which is a joke.

She is getting really fat and still doesn't exercise and talks about it.

We aren't talking much now and she complains and wonders why?!

I need serious advice!!!!


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## anotherguy

Would you say that things have not changed all that much (over 13 years), but that routine isnt working for you anymore?

I see the threads you have posted seem to have largely the same question - so no progress over the last year or so except for the occasional.. stutter step?

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/61644-wifes-low-sex-drive-i-need-help.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...wife-finally-taking-our-sex-life-serious.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/67837-back-her-old-ways.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/87729-didnt-think-would-happen-me-becoming-ld.html


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## Thor

Despite the modern philosophy of being accepting of people's weight, the fact is your brain is wired to find some things attractive and others unattractive. If you do not find her sexually attractive due to her weight, it is your right to be that way. You can love her deeply yet find her weight a turn-off.

Rather than make it about sex, I think approaching her about concern for her health would be more likely to get a positive reaction.

Do you try to involve her in activities? For me, doing something with my wife is all about the togetherness. We don't have to race or compete or do something at the same level. Just going for walks or leisurely bike rides is a good activity and would get your wife moving.


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## anotherguy

Thor said:


> Do you try to involve her in activities? For me, doing something with my wife is all about the togetherness. We don't have to race or compete or do something at the same level. Just going for walks or leisurely bike rides is a good activity and would get your wife moving.


I agree mostly. Doesnt even have to be 'active'. Just moving. I *guarantee* she doesnt want to be panting and sweating on a bike next to her aerobically trained hubby.

She also knows you think she is fat and lazy - as you have pretty much stated in other threads - so its not going to be easy to get her on board when she believes you think she is gross and lacks willpower and more. I am not saying you are the sole cause of your proplems - as you certainly are not - but what I m saying is that lets face it she feels like the unattractive, fat, failure in the room - that is my sense of it - and you are a fairly enthusiastic health 'nut' - right?

I have see this kind of dynamic in people and what can happen is that as people dig even deeper into the things that make them feel better (lets say weight lifting, or talking on the phone with family, or eating, or cardio training or whatever) it gets to be a self feeding downward spiral driving the 2 of you apart. 

She talks on the phone with her friends or family and feels like she is doing something positive and you find it tedious and then you go to the gym and feel like you are doing something positive and she feels like a failure and fat and then she sits on the couch in her sweats and you say 'really?' (as you said in another thread) because she changed into comfortable clothes, and you want to cuddle but are slightly repulsed - its a big conflicted mess.

Honestly - you have been going on and on about her weight for a year now. You need to decide if it is a deal breaker - but keep this in mind too - if she drops 80 lbs, you may still not be having the sex you are desperately seelking. Her selfesteem is probably shot too so she may see your suggestion to get healty as an attack 'he doesnt love me the way I am.' and you are still not getting laid and its making you crazy.

You need to find something you both can do together that isnt either sitting on the couch or hitting the gym. Some middle ground where you both feel like you are doing something productive and positive and stress free. Lets say going on a picnic or something. Hey its outside... a little walk to a nice spot, bust out some refreshments, sit back and relax (oh the luxury of no kids!), have a talk. Talk about her family and yours, work crap, whatever.

You try to put her on an eliptical right off the bat - things are going to get worse. My sense is that she she doesnt have the self confidence yet. Maybe the trust yet, I dont know.

You both are operating on different wavelengths right now. You need to start finding common ground again - and you need to decide how important it is to focus so much on her weight. Personally - Im not sure I could draw a straight line between her weight gain and your lack of sex as a couple as it is a long standing issue since the bginning - I think it is much more than weight. Face it - there are fat couples out there having mad monkey sex and health nut couples in sexually barren marriages - so it isnt the entire equation. It just isnt.

I think your desire to get her healthy is completely desirable and good. I just feel like that now that it is a large point of conflict in your relationship - that its not easy for her to get that directive from you if she feels like she is being judged or too vulnerable. So what can you do together that will make you both feel good?


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## CuddleBug

I hear what everyone is saying and I will try the suggestions.

See, not having sex for 3 - 4 weeks is like nothing for my wife. We've had talks about the low sex drive issue and at first the sex is 2 - 3x that week, and the next week, and then it tapers off to 1x month again. So I get upset, frustrated and withdrawn and she then complains if you talked with me more, cuddled, did things with me more, I might be in the mood more. The way I see it, sex is the glue that holds marriages together. Little to almost no sex means that glue is pretty much gone. Why marry a friend? You marry your spouse and that means a lot of sex as well.

I am wondering if my wife had a traumatic event in her distant past?

Something her ex bf did or maybe further back?

Maybe she will never tell me?

There has to be something else going on because you'd think most spouses would want to try new and fun things together, change and grow together, instead of no changing.:scratchhead:


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## PBear

I was in your situation, although my wife wasn't as overweight as it seems your wife is. My wife's weight bothered her, not me. And we had kids. 

Oh, sorry! I should have said my "STBXW". My solution, after years of no progress... Eventually I realized that she wasn't going to change. So if my happiness depended on something changing, it was going to have to be something I controlled. So I removed myself from the situation. 

Now, almost 3 years later (at age 46), I'm in a sexually (and emotionally) healthy relationship. My kids seem to have adjusted well, my STBXW and I are amicably going through the separation, and my life is much better. Although admittedly, my financial situation isn't as healthy as it might have been. But considering my income has more than doubled since I left, it's all good. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor

Some kind of sex assault or child sex abuse is a possibility. You could try asking her directly, but do not do it in an accusatory way. Perhaps when there is a story on the news it could be a natural point for you to ask her.

If she denies, it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

If there is some kind of trauma she needs good therapy. The only value to you knowing if there was a trauma is so that you can know if she is refusing therapy she will never recover.

Boundaries and expectations are the right way to deal with your issues regardless of the root cause on her side. You can explain your expectations. You can set your boundaries. And then you enforce consequences if she fails to step up.


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## SimplyAmorous

> *CuddleBug said*: Over that time period. *we've fought many times about her lack on interest in sex and her size*.
> 
> I've listened more, cuddled more, random cards and flowers, surprise dinners, chores being done a little each day without being asked, helping her without being asked, taking the initiative and getting things done for our place, being more alpha male, you name it.
> 
> *If I don't initiate sex, we have sex maybe 1x month. I need sex almost every day because I am high drive. If I initiate often, she usually says no, later, maybe tomorrow, etc.*


CuddleBug... you've had 13 yrs ...nothing has changed....you have NO children, you both have your own income, your own cars...

What keeps you hanging on? Do you feel you are reaching the point where "Enough is ENOUGH" ? ... You can not change your wife...the whole leading the horse to water, but can't get them to drink... but you have your own choices that just may collide with hers if she keeps turning your NEEDS away... Once a month sex is teetering on a "sexless marriage" -this is just not acceptable..

I am imagining she has some resentment towards YOU also ...with the fighting over sex...or maybe other issues.. does she turn a blind eye knowing you are suffering ? 

I say....You deserve better, given how you have described your careful treatment of her, attending to HER needs & desires....can you tell us what she brings to you, to show she loves you and cares.



> *Thor said*: Boundaries and expectations are the right way to deal with your issues regardless of the root cause on her side. You can explain your expectations. You can set your boundaries. *And then you enforce consequences if she fails to step up.*


 I agree...and sometimes the consequences may be the end of the marriage ...for your own well being...and happiness..


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## CuddleBug

I think what keeps me hanging on, is respecting God, both sets of parents and the holy bonds of matrimony.

What my wife does for me, lets see.

She randomly buys me dinner on her way home from work but I suspect its mainly for her, so she can eat what she'd like and not feel as guilty.This is also used as a substitute for having sex. She buys me dinner and there will be no sex later.

I'd like to ask her was she abused? But one thing about my wife, for some reason she is extremely sensitive and emotional woman.

She is a hard working, loving, caring, frugal, trustworthy and faithful woman. It's just that she has no drive to take care of herself and her sex drive is crap. That's what I'm trying to figure out........13+ years later.............something must of happened to make her this way, before she even met me.:scratchhead:


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## Thor

Yes, but whatever it was doesn't matter. What matters is if she is meeting your needs and if she is living up to her vows.

There may be something in her past which requires counseling or medical intervention. Knowing what the cause is would be helpful if she is willing to make an honest effort at fixing it. But, it is not your job to fix her nor to figure out what may have happened.

Believe me, I've been down that road for 29 years. Finally I had enough and told her we were done, upon which time she fessed up to her CSA.

Your best bet is to tell her your desires (good marriage with her), tell her what your needs are, and express your expectations. Tell her you are serious about turning this marriage into something you both enjoy, and if you are not able to do so then it is time to consider other options.

She needs a serious fire lit underneath her before she'll believe you.

Then it is up to her to seek whatever help she needs to meet her own goals.

You cannot do this for her.


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## CuddleBug

Yah, I agree.

You can't change someone or fix them. They must want to do this on their own and that they may never do this.

Sad it might take divorce papers to get that fire under her butt thing happening.....sad.

I guess a part of me hopes she will change a bit and get a sex drive.

Many posts of ladies who get a sex drive in their 40's?


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## skype

Cuddle:
If you are both Christians, you may find this link to Focus on the Family's website helpful:

Your Husband's Sex Drive Is God's Gift to You - Focus on the Family

It


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## Red2

I am 43 and I got my drive back 2 years ago when I was diagnosed with low thyroid. Within a week of starting the meds I was back to my high-sex-drive-kinky-self that I was in my twenties. It was like a switch being turned back on. Since that day I normally want sex every day, usually manage to get it 3 times a week. It wasn't anything that my husband did or said, it wasn't how many chores he did or didn't do around the house; when my hormones were messed up, I just simply wasn't interested in sex for many years. Even the threat of divorce in your case won't do it. Things might change for a few weeks or months, but then back to the old pattern. This is what you have to understand: she is just not interested in sex.


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## Trickster

CuddleBug-

I said this before that I think you are my TAM twin and you wife is my wife's twin.

I think I have 5 percent body fat. My wife is several inches shorter than me and weighs way more than me. We eat about the same amount of food. 

Like your wife, mine doesn't exercise at all. I walk/jog 2-3 miles almost every day and recently a 10 mile hike once a week with a group of about 60 people. 

Sex is just about the same as yours... 1x a month. If I initiate she will have it more. I feel the resentments build though....The other day I did initiate and she put me off until the next day...That was fine until she that she would have a day to psych herself into being in the mood???????? Psych herself???


I stay because I do enjoy the companionship as well as the fact that we've been together for 21 years. It's hard to think about walking away from that. I still have hope that things will get better. 

http://www.yourdictionary.com/hope-springs-eternal

Hope springs eternal - Cultural Definition 

"People always hope for the best, even in the face of adversity."



Threatening a D is just a temporary fix. It's like playing a game. You don't seem like the type of man to do that.

I think you are doing a lot of the right stuff. Taking care of yourself is the most important.. 

The main thing that is working for my sanity is that I am doing things away from my wife... I enjoy my new hiking group. It last the big part of my Saturday. I have several hobbies I volunteer and the animal shelter. I love doing all of that. I don't "need" my wife as much anymore.

The pro-pilot I ordered for my daughter came in. Now my daughter and I can ride together without my wife. I can't wait.

I think my wife is waking up somewhat. I just don't know how long it will last.

Others have already said this. You can only change yourself.


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## Jakobi Greenleaf

*Re: Re: Need marriage advice!!*



CuddleBug said:


> I'd like to ask her was she abused? But one thing about my wife, for some reason she is extremely sensitive and emotional woman.


Do you intend to spend the rest of your life paying for someone else's transgressions? If she was abused, it wasn't by you. Why are you still paying for something that someone else did? 
I'm not trying to trivialize abuse. As a victim of csa, I know what it's like. But my wife shouldn't be punished for something that she didn't do. And if your wife was abused, you shouldn't be paying for it either. 
The weight issue always fascinates me. My wife and I have done a remarkable job at weighing the same amount. Given the height difference though, she is rounder then I am. But her weight has never been enough to turn me off. I celebrate my tenth anniversary on Friday, and I'm still totally in lust with her. 
What's the bigger problem? Are you more concerned with the weight or the lack of sex? If she maintained her current weight, and you were having sex 3 or 4 times a week would you be happy? Would you be more or less happy if she was at a normal weight, but sex was still once a month? 
You've been married for 13 years and by my understanding, as time went on, things got worse. What exactly is in this for you? You can't make her change, and for whatever reason, she doesn't seem interested in changing.


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## accept1

CuddleBug said:


> I hear what everyone is saying and I will try the suggestions.
> 
> See, not having sex for 3 - 4 weeks is like nothing for my wife. We've had talks about the low sex drive issue and at first the sex is 2 - 3x that week, and the next week, and then it tapers off to 1x month again. So I get upset, frustrated and withdrawn and *she then complains if you talked with me more, cuddled, did things with me more, I might be in the mood more*. The way I see it, sex is the glue that holds marriages together. Little to almost no sex means that glue is pretty much gone. Why marry a friend? You marry your spouse and that means a lot of sex as well.



There must be some truth in this or isnt there


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## CuddleBug

I have done the cuddling, talking, listening, surprise cards and flowers, dinner when she gets home later then I do, some chores each day to help out, etc., and as happy and greatful this makes her, it doesn't increase her sex drive.


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## Thor

CuddleBug said:


> I have done the cuddling, talking, listening, surprise cards and flowers, dinner when she gets home later then I do, some chores each day to help out, etc., and as happy and greatful this makes her, it doesn't increase her sex drive.


No, it usually won't.

Have you read No More Mr. Nice Guy by Dr. Robert Glover?


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## Affaircare

I'm speaking as a lady here, in my 50's, and I have/had a pretty high sex drive. Ideally I'd like about once a day or 5 times a week kind of frequency. BUT speaking as a lady I can tell you two things:

1) I have never, ever ONCE seen a man doing the dishes and thought "I want to jump him RIGHT NOW! TAKE ME!!" Doing chores and buying flowers is not what makes a woman hot. 

2) I have been in a position of having a whole list of chores "to do" until late into the night, while my husband sits and watches TV while I work and barely have time to sit down...and then he asks for sex, which does not feel like "Honey I notice you and care about you enough to want to make you feel good"....it feels like yet ANOTHER demand on me! 

So even though it may seem like they are completely opposed, both #1 and #2 are true. And here's how they can both happen at the same time. 

First, watching a guy do things around the house or do nice little things may not necessarily be her "love language." So think of the things that make her HOT. Is there anything you can think of that seems to catch her attention and makes her interested and passionate and happy? THAT is a clue to her "love language." Some people really do feel loved when their spouse does little jobs for them; some feel loved with little thoughtful gifts; some feel loved when their spouse praises them or says out loud what they did right; etc. You get the drift. If you've been giving her flowers and her love language is positive talk...and you've been telling her all the ways she's letting you down then each time is like a little wound and the cards are like "Why are you doing this when I don't even make you happy?" So study her and try to think what really gets her excited? What catches her interest? And as crazy as that thing may seem, THAT is the lynchpin to making her HOT about you!!

Second, it doesn't sound like she has her own business to run and kids to take care of and a house to run and is just JAM PACKED with demands on her time and her life. But to her, it may be stressful at work and she's worried about getting fired, then she has to grocery shop and make dinner and do dishes and do laundry...and she's in that book club and this women's group at church...and inside her head it may FEEL like everyone and their mother is demanding something from her. Now some of that is her own choice to be in the book club and the thing at church, but I'm just giving an example here. Then, when she's feeling all that along comes her husband, who does not really like her that much and keeps telling her all her shortcomings, and he's demanding sex X number of times per week! Again, this may not be realistic, but it may be something like what it seems like to her. So even when she says "Do more for me" what may actually happen is that you do something with the idea that "If I do THIS she'll do THAT (aka sex)" and what she actually feels like is "Whew, now I don't have this huge demand on me! I can relax!" UGH that's FAR from the activity that you were doing it for!!! So to me the solution is not to do things "for her" in hopes of getting sex or even doing cuddling and flowers with an expected pay off, but rather to sort of pay attention to one thing. If she is doing something, do it with her even if it's just laundry or dishes. Be the kind of person who enjoys her and treats her like a friend (meaning her friends are interested in her, her thoughts and feelings). Be funny and fun to be with. Do some things she enjoys too because you care about the person she is. And as you're doing these things that express interest in who she is, it may be easier for her to be willing to be in the mood. I know that sounds like a tall order, but I have often told my Dear Hubby it feels like we made love all day, because during the day he would notice me, hug me for no reason, kiss me and smile when I walk in the room, etc. You get the drift: he acts like a person acts when they are HAPPY to see someone and interested in them!

Finally, there's no denying one thing. It may well be that she just is a low drive person and always has been and always will be. In the same way that you're just a high drive person and always have been and always will be--and it's not because you were sexually assaulted as a child or anything, it's just an expression of who you are. Same for her. This just may be "who she is." 

So at that point it's up to you to decide what marriage means to you and what your vows mean and how committed you are to honoring the promises you made, even if she doesn't honor her promise. I don't remember anywhere in the vows a mention of sexual frequency or even that sex "is a reasonable expectation." I know one man whose wife was much like yours and he made the conscious decision to stay married...partly for his kids because he loved them and wanted to be with them, and partly so he could look himself in the eye for honoring his vows right? But he also allowed his wife to experience the consequences of her choice to be sexless, and although she protested she did eventually learn from it and came around somewhat. In the end they reached an agreement they could both live with and live up to, and they began to treat each other in a much healthier way. 

So decide for yourself what it's all worth to you and make your choice, and then do that without looking back. Just make your decision and then accept that you made that choice. The end.


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## alte Dame

Do you find her sexually attractive with her increased weight and sedentary lifestyle?


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## CuddleBug

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I think its as simple as she is genuinely LD and insecure about her body but won't do anything about it. Just the way she is.

Do I like the fact she is getting bigger and lives a sedentary lifestyle? No. No one deserves that from their spouse.

See, I did the hugs, kisses, cuddling, watch tv together, talk about our days, listen to her about her day, watch movies together, order in and eat together, cards, flowers, some chores done each day, whether she notices or not, etc. and no sex increase on her part.

Can't say its me at this point.


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## SimplyAmorous

CuddleBug said:


> See, I did the hugs, kisses, cuddling, watch tv together, talk about our days, listen to her about her day, watch movies together, order in and eat together, cards, flowers, some chores done each day, whether she notices or not, etc. and no sex increase on her part.
> 
> Can't say its me at this point.


I strongly believe that many people take their spouses for granted...and to some degree, in our goodness, WE LET THEM, we've spoiled them (as it sounds you have)... 

What can wake them from their slumber....when you announce, that's it - a little TOO LITTLE TOO LATE , that you are leaving them...it's OVER...this, and unfortunately only this seems to put a  under them - to come after you, FINALLY willing to listen, to give back...realizing...like the words of this song.... Don't Know What You Got (Till It's Gone)


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## Trickster

SimplyAmorous said:


> I strongly believe that many people take their spouses for granted...and to some degree, in our goodness, WE LET THEM, we've spoiled them (as it sounds you have)...
> 
> What can wake them from their slumber....when you announce, that's it - a little TOO LITTLE TOO LATE , that you are leaving them...it's OVER...this, and unfortunately only this seems to put a  under them - to come after you, FINALLY willing to listen, to give back...realizing...like the words of this song.... Don't Know What You Got (Till It's Gone)


SA...

For many women, this may work....I can relate to CB.

I've done the same thing as CB...exactly....In addition, I even threatened to leave... I had a potential place and everything. It changed for a few weeks and then back to what it was...

I started doing things for myself and spent time away. Then she made me feel guilty for being away from our daughter.... Still no lasting change... I still continue my hobbies.

While doing my new hobbies and interests, I am meeting women and they notice me... I started doing lunch dates with some of them... Sometimes even meeting for drinks. Sex increases again for a while....

Then my wife tells me to have sex with other women...I was too aggressive and wanted sex too much for her liking...So I went on a few more dates and now she is a little jealous and initiating sex...I don't think this will last... I don't know if the other women suggestion is still on the table or not. 



No matter what you do CuddleBug, it may not be a long term fix. Threats may not work for the real LD woman. 

It is as simple as you say ... Your wife, like mine, is just LD, overweight, and won't do anything about it.

I really hate to say this CB, but so far, the only thing that may seem to wake your wife up would be when she knows for sure that another women is interested in you. Most times when I have my lunch dates, we seem to have sex...She does initiate...I just know at some point I may cross that line.

Then again, if she is as passive aggressive as my wife, she may not even put up much of a fight.


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## CuddleBug

I agree, some spouses are spoiled and take us for granted, but I don't think my wife is that bad. Yes, I do all the initiating around the house and in getting things done and she just lets it sit there, month after month and eventually gets around to it. As for chores, I do the outside and she never has and I do a little every day, even just before I go to work. She will do nothing and then spend one entire day doing chores, gets upset she wasted her entire doing those chores and I always tell her, do a little every day so this never happens and she just doesn't get it or change.

My wife makes her job, which she enjoys, number #1, her family #2 and then us #3. At least that's the way I see it. Whenever he family calls, she always has to answer the phone and talk to them for an hour or two, and that's pretty much every day. Her family lives in town, 5 - 15 minutes drive away too.

She says her job is so demanding. I counter that excuse and I tell her, she took the job and didn't have to. She already had a job in town and she could even bus to work. Now she drives to her home town, about a 40 minute drive, in a new loaded car and the highway she uses was totally redone this year, so driving is smooth, safe and quicker.

When we watch tv, if there are hot ladies, she changes the channel because I see them. If a hot lady flirted with me, while we are out together, this would get her angry, insecure and this would not be a good thing.

If I even chat with another woman, flirting, nothing more, she gets upset and cries, yet the little sex issue persists and she doesn't take care of herself.

I don't know what to say....


All the things most ladies do for their men, my wife has never done.

- we've never been in the bathroom together
- never in the shower together and she locks the doors
- no sex in the car or outside
- doesn't take care of herself
- never initiates sex
- never talks dirty or buys toys to spice it up
- never watches adult movies
- not into adventurous sex (no anal, rare dry foot job), 69 is bad, doesn't like it when I passionately kiss her
- doesn't like it when I kiss her breasts or neck
- doesn't like it when I move down to give her oral, she usually says no and pulls me back up


Don't know what to say at this point.......


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