# The Tale of the Ladder And How It Broke My Marriage (Long Read)



## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

It isn't as simple as a ladder, but it certainly was a huge part of it...

Hello, I’ve been a member here since last year. It was suggested that I come to this area of the forum to get some help from other men that have perhaps gone through what I’m dealing with.

A little background… met my wife online in 1996, I will call her “B” Not the typical internet relationship, we were friends, then become very good friends online over the course of a few years, talking on the phone quite a bit, and in August 2002, as each of us were getting out of relationships, she decided to come visit me (lived 8 hours away), we had a wonderful weekend, I visited her over Christmas, then we moved in together, without ever really “dating”, in February of 2003. 

This worked, because we had grown so close over 7 years of chatting and talking. However I made a big mistake in holding onto my ex gf and believing I could make two women happy at the same time. I had never lived with anyone and made mistakes like taking phone calls late at night in the other room from my ex, not realizing how much that hurt B. Years later she told me she would sit in the hallway listening with tears rolling down her face. She has dealt with depression from an early age, but I certainly didn’t make that any easier.

I finally wised up after we’d been living together for over a year, and I have never spoken to my ex gf since. B decided to join the Marines in 2005, We got married that summer, and then I got sent to Iraq while she was still in training. I came back in late 2006, she was getting out of the Marines, and we decided to have a baby, which we did, and moved back to my home state.

I wasn’t making a lot of money, did a sort of dead end job for about a year, then in 2008 was offered a pretty good position with the potential to be a permanent gig with the Army National Guard. Great pay, good benefits, so we bought a house, and had another baby. Because I was making decent money my wife was able to stay at home with the kids, and she went to night school with the idea that she would get a certificate to do a job from home.

I was so happy, I was in love, had a house, two wonderful children, we owned 3 vehicles, one of which being my sports car that I meticulously took care of. Worked on my lawn, stained my deck, etc, those fun house upkeep things that a father/husband does. My life was wonderful, like a dream.

Fast forward to 2011. I still have my job, however the “permanent gig” that was supposed to nearly be a sure thing was becoming questionable. I had been at it for 3 years, I loved my job, and because I had a wonderful marriage and family it didn’t really bother me, the idea that I might not have the job. 

Then in late February into March, a chain of events shattered everything I believed in. “B” had become quieter, I would ask her about it and she said that there was “nothing wrong”, that she was dealing with depression issues just like always and it didn’t have anything to do with me. Then one day I came home and there were scuff marks all across the hood of my sports car. I had left a ladder in front of my car and when she had opened the garage door, it had knocked the ladder down onto my car and across the hood. 

This was my fault, however when I asked my wife about it, she lied and said she didn’t know what had happened, and I blew up at her, then I didn’t talk to her for 2 days. Then just when we started talking again that 3rd day, I left an inappropriate image on the computer that my daughter saw, causing another blow out fight. There were other little things that happened too, but those two were the main catalysts, as far as I knew. I called my wife from work the next day and she told me she didn’t know if she loved me anymore, and my entire world came crashing down around me.


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

Then I found out that she had been in contact on facebook and gone to visit another man in another state in February while visiting her family, 2000 miles away, a man who had screwed her over when she had sex with him over a weekend more than a decade before, then he up and disappeared. After that I began looking closer at things and found a private journal she had, and that she had held onto strong feelings for him pretty much the entire time we’d been together, along with a collection of extremely hurtful things about me.

She did not sleep with him, or do anything with him, other than talk, however it was at his hotel and they ended up in his hotel room. I trust that nothing physical happened because the journal had extremely private things in it, very intimate things she discussed, things that, while maybe not sleeping with him, still sent me spiraling further as it showed a side of her I never knew. But I did find out things that she should have been telling me, which was good, about me, and how my actions were hurting her. I had been very passive aggressive since getting back from Iraq, I would never really yell at her but I would handle things that bothered me in a childish manner, and swear under my breath when I thought she couldn’t hear, that sort of thing. I never knew how much that affected her, she never really told me, it was a real wakeup call.

She was very upset that I read the journal, and tried to lie to me about certain things, but we decided to try and go to marriage counseling. The first counselor was a disaster and left me in deep depression, I got blamed for everything, and my wife felt vindicated for going to see another man, even telling me “I don’t regret going to see him”. Spiraling…. Further.

She knew I was unhappy with this counselor and we went to another one, a fantastic guy who really did a lot of good for us. In the meantime I sought personal counseling to deal with my passive aggressive anger issues, was diagnosed at the VA for PTSD issues related to my deployment, and now am finding out that I have a real problem with both change and the fear of being alone. 

One of our biggest issues is trust, last year was just horrible because I found out about half a dozen times where “B” had done something and didn’t say anything to me, from re-friending that guy on facebook, to a maxed out credit card in her name. That led me to dig all the time into her stuff, something I had never done, like checking her phone and computer. She started to hide things, delete history, etc. In the meantime it has become more and more questionable as to how long I can continue in this job, which further spikes the anxiety and stress.

I fully accept my responsibility in this marriage for not treating her right, and for my behavior not just to her but around others, that really made her self conscious. I love her dearly, but she is still not sure how she feels about me. She has admitted that her own insecurities and her unhappiness being at home with the kids alone every day played a big part in all of this. She says she loves me, just isn’t sure she is IN love with me. I’ve also realized what is important in my life, I would get rid of my sports car in a second if there was a choice between my family and the car, or her and the car.

So what I find myself doing is going way overboard on the “feelings”, I apologize for silly things I shouldn’t be apologizing for, I am always asking her “Are you okay?” or “Is everything alright?” because I am so insecure about things. These days I’m taking Celexa daily and Ativan (Lorazipam) whenever I need it to fight the anxiety issues. April 2011 was the worst month of my life but by the end of May I thought I was coming out of it, had a good couple of months then in October another fight, another threat by her to leave, and I spiraled again for another month. Then was okay for a month in Dec 2011, then had a weak moment, read her phone, and saw some questionable comments about the other guy that sent me spiraling again. I’ve stayed away from her stuff since that day, but I find myself going up and down emotionally, especially late at night, waking up with bad dreams about my deployment or about my marriage going bad.


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

Now she is trying a lot harder to be open to me, but I’ve really lost a sense of my manhood in all of this. She still has this little secret part of her life that she keeps away from me, and before that didn’t bother me, but in light of her visiting this other guy, it now really bothers me. She says she will never be with this other guy, but he may be getting divorced from his wife now, and that stresses me out further. Her journal was never read by anyone else, but her comments about “him” hurt me, it feels sometimes like something inside of me broke and I’ve never been able to put things back together again. 

I am not trying to hide anything from her, I go out of my way to make sure she has access to anything on my computer or phone, I don’t clear my history, I make myself as transparent as possible. Even if she read this I wouldn’t care, because what I’m looking for here is advice, not to help me “get back to where I was” because I don’t want to be that person, but to get back to being a stronger better husband, someone who is supportive of her and handles adversity maturely and responsibly. But with that in mind I want to be able to confront her about issues that affect us as a family without feeling like, for lack of a better term, my balls have been separated from my body. I fear losing her so badly that I wither even in the face of things like her friendship with this other guy, and put up with it rather than putting my foot down about it. 

I want to believe that things are going to be ok, but my self esteem is lower than ever, and while I do trust my wife more than at any time in the last 12 months I am still so scared  

What do I need to do with myself, what is the best course of action to take to find comfort and happiness again? Is it really that I'm so scared of losing my job or is all of this still spinning off of losing my "foundation" that was the idea of my perfect marriage? I hate feeling this way...


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

What efforts has she taken to be transparent to you? What has she done about her inappropriate relationship with another man.

I would suggest the book No More Mr. Nice Guy. While I was not a nice guy as described, there was a lot fo good advice on improving myself as a man and getting comfortable in who I was and what I wanted.


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## Screenp2 (Dec 4, 2011)

Po12345 said:


> I fear losing her so badly that I wither even in the face of things like her friendship with this other guy, and put up with it rather than putting my foot down about it.


If she knows this. Why would she have any desire to change her ways. She feels that no matter what she does at this point, you will accept it and just deal with it. 

Stop accepting it and or learn to live w/out her. Start going out with friends more, come home late and start doing things for you. Take that sports car on long drives, take a weekend and go for a road trip. Start doing things for you and prepare for the chance that you will be alone soon. 

I've had to do this with my wife. She was refusing to have sex or talk about the reasoning why so I stopped being me and did a version of the 180 to get her to communicate. When she finally did it was a major break though for us. I don't have to worry about being alone anymore, but I do have an entire new set of problems to deal with. 

Good luck and about the damage to the car.. when I was 14 i knocked off the hood emblem of my step-dads Mercedes after trying to help out by clearing the snow off it. I walked inside and handed him the emblem with a feeling of sheer terror he was going to kill me or something.. he didn't talk to me for a week and has never let me drive any of his 'sports cars' over the years. His cars have always been his 'babies' and to this day he still brings it up.. as a joking matter he says. I'm 41 now.


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## RDL (Feb 10, 2012)

Hello,

I like the way you titled your post. As you realized the ladder was just the point where problems blew up. 

It is not at all uncommon for couples to have multiple issues unsolved and compounding each other for years and one of the members is none the wiser till things blow up. It has to do with the fact that without proper relationship training which most people do not have both partners may not know how to communicate their needs or properly meet the other person's emotional needs. 

That said I congratulate you on the initiative to go to counseling and strongly suggest you continue to do so. Both of you are receiving the sort of training most people should receive before they decide to start a long term relationship. 

On the matter of your confidence drop it is quite normal as your sense of confidence is at least partly based on past results and achievements, your marriage and your job being essential pillars. 

Unfortunately your drop in confidence is affecting both your marriage and your job performance in a negative way. 

To help you in this regard I strongly suggest the material: "Dale Carnegie Stop worrying and start living". It has got very good techniques for eliminating anxiety, worries and fears. 

There is an exercise in that book that I fond very helpful over the years and you can do it as well. It goes as follows: 

1. Imagine a worst case scenario that is realistic. In your case imagine loosing your job and your wife leaving at the same time.

2. With the scenario from step 1 in your mind imagine what would you do realistically in that situation. 

3. Accept the step 1 and 2 as a possibility. This is true as there is always a possibility that the worst case scenario will occur. 

If you follow the 3 steps above you will find that it dissipates a lot of your anxiety. The way it works is it provides a solid psychological base from which to work from. If you know the worst case scenario and have a plan in that situation you can work on your situation from a solid base and each improvement on the worst case scenario will build your confidence.

Right now part of your anxiety comes from outcomes that are possible but unfathomable for you. Once you fathom them their hold over you will dissipate and interestingly enough allow you to have the performance that would produce close to the best possible outcome.


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> What efforts has she taken to be transparent to you? What has she done about her inappropriate relationship with another man.
> 
> I would suggest the book No More Mr. Nice Guy. While I was not a nice guy as described, there was a lot fo good advice on improving myself as a man and getting comfortable in who I was and what I wanted.


She is trying to be more open about communication with this other guy, that's how I found out he might be getting a divorce. In some ways though, his current behavior has worked in my favor. 

When "B" went to see him more than 10 years ago (before we were together), they had sex, then he disappeared, for months. She makes excuses about it now, trying to make me believe he's a "decent guy" or something, but as man I know the type of person he is. When he finally talked to her again, he was already dating someone else, this "model" he had met. They got married and have 2 kids, but apparently now he is separated and seeing at least one younger woman, maybe two. 

She told me all about this one evening last month, and the next day I was thinking about what she had said, and I realized something... she is not in love with HIM, she is in love with the idea of HIM from when they first met. Still though, when you split your heart between two people you can't ever fully appreciate the person you are with. I know this, I remember doing this years ago when we first got together.

It is for this reason that I hold out hope. I know that during the time when I was confused about two people, I couldn't say if I were in love with "B", I knew I loved her, but I was torn due to my ex. It was when I faced losing her that I realized how much she really meant to me. 

As far as what she has done about her friendship with this other guy, she has three times deleted him from her facebook, then awhile later added him back. She no longer tries to hide his posts from me, he doesn't post to her page very often, but I know when he does she it affects her emotionally. She tries to tell me that she "has no feelings" for him, but I know better (again, I've been there, I recognize that "torn" heart). 

Her biggest problem is communication, she's always been quiet about her feelings, she doesn't want people to know when she's hurting, at age 13 or so her mother went off on her about her depression and how "there are times you are such a burden to me", and "B" never really got over that. We are both "givers", which makes things a little easier because we don't really take advantage of one another, but what I really want sometimes is the intimacy, not talking so much about sex, but the intimate communication. 

I've been going well with changing my passive aggessive behavior, but I sort of slipped and now I've gone from being abrasive to being overly sensitive and emotional. That's what I have to work on. I'll look into that book to see if that helps me get something going.

Oh, and I'll be 40 years old in September, she is 6 years younger than I am, we have two children, 4 year old girl, 2 year old boy. The kids make it hard for me to ever really do my own thing, I love them so much and love to be around them.


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

Screenp2 said:


> If she knows this. Why would she have any desire to change her ways. She feels that no matter what she does at this point, you will accept it and just deal with it.
> 
> Stop accepting it and or learn to live w/out her. Start going out with friends more, come home late and start doing things for you. Take that sports car on long drives, take a weekend and go for a road trip. Start doing things for you and prepare for the chance that you will be alone soon.
> 
> ...


I am trying to do this, it is hard with the kids, I have several friends I can go out with and I need to start doing it. I find myself stupidly getting scared about it (what if she leaves me because I am not spending time with her etc etc) when I should be thinking "I can't stop her from leaving me by being a wimp". And she actually wants me to get out with others, so I don't really have any excuses not to. I worry though that the kids will overwhelm her or something, as that was part of what started all of this.

I do love driving my car but in my darkest moments I don't want to go driving, I don't like much of anything, all the things that bring me joy become meaningless and even playing with my kids seems to take a herculean effort. 

The car itself wasn't damaged badly, I was able to buff out 90%, it is a commemorative edition and the edge of the hood stripes has some very minor chipping, but to the naked eye it is negligible. But, like I said, the car is meaningless at this point in comparison to the rest of my life, I want to get things back in order. Well, I want to get things IN order, because they may have never been in order before.


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

FreedomCorp said:


> Hello,
> 
> I like the way you titled your post. As you realized the ladder was just the point where problems blew up.
> 
> ...


I used to always blame her for the communication problems. I felt like I was able to talk to her so wtf is her problem with talking to me? What I didn't realize is that I was very negative about a lot of things. Instead of seeing the positive aspects for example of putting in some landscaping in the yard, I would bemoan the cost of plants that would likely die during the winter, and therefore little by little I would squash the little dreams of what she wanted to do with the house. 

I now realize that due to my negative responses to the times she actually DID want to talk to me, I did a lot of harm to our overall ability to communicate, and that spilled over to the intimacy side also. 

She said a couple months ago that she wants to get those feelings of love back, but she also wonders if it is "too late", if things have gone too far. I don't believe they have, and any help I can get here to help draw her back "into the fold" so to speak would be welcomed. I know that chasing her at this point is not going to be an effective solution to the issues between us, but she is trying, I just have to be patient and let her sort out these conflicting emotions she is having, and realize there isn't much I can do other than being a supportive husband and good father, to help her get through it. 

I will try the steps you have, and see if there is some way that it can help alleviate some of this intense anxiety I am having. I've heard of that book before, maybe it is time to read it.


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

Well, now worse news from work... apparently it looks like the current job I have is going to end in about 2 months. I was really hoping to get this to at least October for more chances at the permanent job. I don't know how I'll tell my wife tonite, she's going to be crushed, but there is no way she can continue at school next year.


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

Well my wife is trying to say all the right things, but I don't know now if this is my marriage or the job situation. I am having trouble doing even the most menial tasks,I am indecisive, and can't sleep without taking something. Getting 20 years active duty military was my dream but suddenly the money has been pulled, and a bunch of us are being let go.this has never happened before. I took this job 4 years ago with a unwritten promise of a permanent gig. Now in the next couple of months, we are done. Couldn't happen at a worse time for me., with all the other marriage issues.we mighT lose our house
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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