# Does your W/H tell you to F off?



## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

If your SO tells you to F off is it in predictably stressful situations which you accept? You hate it and end up arguing about it? Wouldn't care what they called you as long as they said sorry? You give as good as you get but both accept and apologise? Just wouldn't put up with it and it'd be a dealbreaker?
Either way is name calling something which really should merit an apology regardless of context?


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

My H does this at the height of an angry fight.
I HATE it.
If he would sincerely apologize, I could accept the apology.
Most of the time he does.
But this last time, he didn't. I'm not ok with that.
BUT:
I'm working on taking care of myself to better the relationship, and I was told;
"when you realize that it's not going to happen anymore, the changed future behavior substitutes for an apology."
if and when it does happen, the worst thing to do is demand an apology.
The best thing to do is distance myself. 
In those situations, less is more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

No, he never tells me to F off, nor does he call me names. I do not do either to him. If he did call me a name, yes I would expect an apology. Depending on the word he used, I may or may not accept it. For example, my ex-husband called me a c**t, so if my boyfriend called me that, I don't think I could forgive that because I have such negative associations with that word. But it he called me a b*tch, I would forgive that, and depending on the situation, might even have to acknowledge that I was one and apologize to him for that. 

As for does it require an apology regardless of context, no. If two people have a relationship in which they can jokingly call each other names, and both of them are very clearly aware of this and neither of them takes it seriously, then there's no need to apologize. In that same relationship, though, if one calls the other a name during an argument, yes I think an apology would be warranted then. 

I think really for the most part it depends on the relationship. Every relationship has its own dynamic which sets the terms for when and how apologies should be offered.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

He doesn't say F*ck off. He says "F*ck you". To which I always reply "Oooh I will". 

Thing is, this exchange is always funny to me (even in the heat of a battle) so I laugh. After a few seconds he laughs too (or actually he tries not to, LOL).


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

Soooo (trying to be brief) this is the situation; did I at any point do right!

Stressful-ish day having had a few niggles; rushed journey home to see a match with niggles from him about me not prioritising the haste to get home; THEN (I first) we realise he's got the wrong day & apologises to son cos it's son's team playing - I overhear and say no doubt in a somewhat sarky tone; I'd say understandably but then I would! - 'was that to me or (son)?
His reply is F off

Since then (maybe an hour or so) not a word between us, I'm on TAM, he's having his usual snooze not having mentioned it to me but told son. This non-communication is an issue; snoozing used to be but I'm now ok with it if I know, so I don't charge into the bedroom & disturb him, or call loudly, or whatever!


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

I honestly have never been told to f-off, been called a b***h, c**t, or anything else derogatory. Not to my face, anyway. Which is really kinda amazing considering the man I was married to for 20 years. I'm sure he said plenty behind my back, though. 

I know that some don't see those words as big deals. I do. I sometimes think it's a generational thing, since it seems to be younger women than myself that it doesn't bother. 

I DO know what I'd do though...just as Credamdochasgra said...distance yourself. Beyond a shadow of a doubt I know I'd do this. However...it would probably be a LOT of distance until he figured out that I'm not going to call him names, and I'm not going to tolerate being called any, either. But that's just me.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Negative name calling has no place in adult discussion, regardless of the emotions. I have never called another adult a name in anger, and I'm not so special. I wouldn't tolerate a partner who did this, and if it happened for the first time after marriage, I'd give him a second chance (therapy to deal with anger management, etc).

When you start excusing someone for name-calling, you are lowering the bar to the "juvenile" level. Why would anyone be surprised, then, that the same arguments and behaviors continue? Step up expectations for yourself and your mate, and this won't happen.


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

I think what I described in my 2nd post is kind of distancing, but it really p's me off that I don't really thoroughly know how to react or respond because we made love three days ago, first in a while, and yet we never seem to get more than a couple of days past that before something happens to throw the balance which makes it less likely I (he maybe because he's sensitive to upset too) will feel inclined to make love again (point being my gut says I need him to say sorry, my brain knows seeking an apology will likely lead to more upset & that's not healthy for any of us)


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

major misfit said:


> I honestly have never been told to f-off, been called a b***h, c**t, or anything else derogatory. Not to my face, anyway. Which is really kinda amazing considering the man I was married to for 20 years. I'm sure he said plenty behind my back, though.
> 
> I know that some don't see those words as big deals. I do. I sometimes think it's a generational thing, since it seems to be younger women than myself that it doesn't bother.
> 
> I DO know what I'd do though...just as Credamdochasgra said...distance yourself. Beyond a shadow of a doubt I know I'd do this. However...it would probably be a LOT of distance until he figured out that I'm not going to call him names, and I'm not going to tolerate being called any, either. But that's just me.


It really depends on a person's view of words.
I'm similar to mm in what I think is "cool" to say to someone.
Unfortunately, I married someone with a much looser interpretation of what's "cool" and what's not.
Ive lightened up my general sensitivity, but "F" and name calling still aren't cool with me.

I do know it only happens at a certain escalation point. doesn't make it cool. 
But, whatever I can do to not contribute to the escalation, i'll do.
That's what I'm working on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

madimoff said:


> I think what I described in my 2nd post is kind of distancing, but it really p's me off that I don't really thoroughly know how to react or respond because we made love three days ago, first in a while, and yet we never seem to get more than a couple of days past that before something happens to throw the balance which makes it less likely I (he maybe because he's sensitive to upset too) will feel inclined to make love again (point being my gut says I need him to say sorry, my brain knows seeking an apology will likely lead to more upset & that's not healthy for any of us)


If you don't want it to happen, try this:

if he's in a bad mood...just *do not speak to him.*
apparently that's all it takes for him to tell you "F off."
he's got something up his butt?
Do not speak to him.
Do not speak to him unless he indicates in no uncertain terms that he's in a good mood, or neutral.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> What do you mean a cheap shot? It seems to me that there are women on this board who are so busy fighting it makes it look like they think marriage is about winning. I used to be exactly the same and am really, really glad that someone was able to make me see how that does not work.


I don't see how this is going to help the OP...the name calling bothers her. For whatever reason. I don't see how that has anything to do with it being a "competition sport". If you can show me where it is, I'll stand corrected.


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

major misfit said:


> I don't see how this is going to help the OP...the name calling bothers her. For whatever reason. I don't see how that has anything to do with it being a "competition sport". If you can show me where it is, I'll stand corrected.


Went away from the laptop for a while & look what happens! 
No, it was nothing to do with winning
No it's not a competition sport
Thanks for those who spoke up to make that clear
I don't like foul language (in the home or anywhere, but in the home particularly) and feel it is disrespectful if directed AT someone rather than say in the locker-room, canteen at work among 'consenting' colleagues or whatever
I was looking for input (and got some thusfar) about how to deal with it without either worsening the situation or seeming to 'tolerate' any longer


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

Forgot to say he's up from his snooze, not a word's passed between us - - - ho hum


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Well let me see if I can explain my point of view.

The post is basically a who is right post. It makes no difference who is right. It makes no difference if someone else' spouse also does that. She has a choice before her. Either lighten up and don't get offended by something stupid. Or set limits in an effective way. Make it a personal boundary and enforce it.

In my opinion, lightening up and letting some stuff slide is the best choice in this case. It is just a word. The more personal boundaries one has to enforce, the harder going things are. The more personal boundaries one has to enforce, the more fights one is going to wind up in. I would save my personal boundary enforcement for things like reliability or something important.

Of course the choice is hers.

I do observe that there is a common theme among some of the women on the board that is precisely how I used to be wrt trying to win. Trenton kind of referenced it in another thread when she said something like you can't let him have the upper hand. 

I feel it would be of use to some folk to shift the attitude. You have to lose to win, so to speak. The advice would be something like

- Lighten up your "needs" Take what he says the way HE meant it. I would bet a dollar that **** off is just a term to him. I am picturing two guys having a disagreement over which pub to go to and him shooting off, **** off dude we are going to McNeil's.

- Spend the VAST majority of time and effort trying to understand HIS Pov on these arguments rather than trying to defend one's own. Both he original argument and the subsequent FO. Understanding HIS Pov will lead one to a host of possible solutions. This way is arguing to solve, not arguing to win.

- Set personal boundaries effectively when non-negotiable things come up. There are a bazillion resources to read on effective limit setting. Good skill to learn since similar techniques are used in child discipline. But keep the personal boundaries about SERIOUS non-negotiable things only. The rest, opt for lightening up.

Now lest you think I am picking only on the women, nay. But the right fighting seems to be a bit more prevalent with the females of this group, seems to me. If a post has any of these phrases

- how do I get him/her to
- s/he should
- why wont s/he

My right fight radar goes ballistic. And oft times, it seems to be the case. Why should I change what I am doing when s/he is wrong? Who CARES. Do you want to be right? Or do you want to solve the problem?

Sadly it seems many people actually want to be right.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

You picture the scenario very differently. That may explain your POV.


> I would save my personal boundary enforcement for things like reliability or something important.


For some people, reliability is not a big issue--it's an, "I know I cannot expect him to blah, blah, blah, so I will accommodate that weakness in him." 

For others, it is about seeing one's self be treated worse than anyone else in their partner's life. If you expect your partner not to swear at his mother, father, sibs, children, co-workers, and friends, you would expect him not to swear at you.

I'll say, "F* that, let's go do this instead." Or, "F* You!" in a joking manner, during light banter, etc. I would *never* tolerate a friend or sister or colleague who told me to "F* off" in the course of a disagreement. Why would I tolerate that in a partner?

In reality, these issues are usually apparent before marriage, so I would just break up with someone who treated me like that. No relationship is worth that, IMO. I'd rather be alone than with someone who treats me as less valueable than he treats others. Actually, I'd MUCH rather be alone! That's why I got divorced. Had I known before marriage what I know now, I wouldn't have gotten married, not to him, at the very least, and maybe not to anyone at all. Yep, I insist on respect and a number of other things and if I want to be treated as I expect, I only associate with people who will treat me like that. So far, except for my spouse, it has been working for me.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

This "F*ck off" phrase.. is it a problem for you because 
1. it's a curse phrase or 
2. because he essentially tells you he doesn't want to talk anymore/communicate anymore and/or you feel he dismisses you?


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Well let me see if I can explain my point of view.
> 
> The post is basically a who is right post. It makes no difference who is right. It makes no difference if someone else' spouse also does that. She has a choice before her. Either lighten up and don't get offended by something stupid. Or set limits in an effective way. Make it a personal boundary and enforce it.
> 
> ...


 Vt...

To you, "something important" is reliability, etc.

To madimoff, "something important" is her H's anger management and language toward her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

sisters359 said:


> You picture the scenario very differently. That may explain your POV.
> 
> For some people, reliability is not a big issue--it's an, "I know I cannot expect him to blah, blah, blah, so I will accommodate that weakness in him."
> 
> For others, it is about seeing one's self be treated worse than anyone else in their partner's life. If you expect your partner not to swear at his mother, father, sibs, children, co-workers, and friends, you would expect him not to swear at you.


Absolutely. It is up to each person to determine their own personal boundaries. 

That said, people can CHOOSE what their personal boundaries are. I can choose to look at swearing as treating me worse than other people, or I can choose to look at it as being comfy enough to say what is really on his mind. It would be interesting to take a long think about what he really actually meant. BUt sometimes you don't get to know.

The point is not that one should or should not make THIS a personal boundary. The point is one can choose them. And too often, people choose to make too many, causing grounds for a lot of fighting. Also too often people choose to make them based on a faulty understanding of the intent of the other.

It is my base opinion that given a choice between setting a personal boundary and lightening up, lightening up is the better choice. There are going to be issues that are so core to your being, that there will be no choice. 

Case in point. Core issue to my being is that there is absolute honesty. (Which is a tad odd since I am the one who has the tendency to fib then have to eat crow later.) I would set limits on lying. I would break the deal on consistent lying. And I don't even care if it is lying about the laundry.

Core issue to my being is positive respectful discipline for the children. If he decided he was into authoritarian corporal punishment or ineffective, permissive discipline, I would set limits. I would push that one all the way.

Those issues look different that a choice of colorful language, in my opinion. And again, I am not saying that if YOU feel language is a core issue that you should not enforce the limit. I am just trying to be clear that I really feel that the default position should be lightening up. And limit setting should be the second choice.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

reachingshore said:


> This "F*ck off" phrase.. is it a problem for you because
> 1. it's a curse phrase or
> 2. because he essentially tells you he doesn't want to talk anymore/communicate anymore and/or you feel he dismisses you?


I'm guessing, based on the whole story, that partly it seemed to madimoff like an uncalled for overreaction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

reachingshore said:


> He doesn't say F*ck off. He says "F*ck you". To which I always reply "Oooh I will".
> 
> Thing is, this exchange is always funny to me (even in the heat of a battle) so I laugh. After a few seconds he laughs too (or actually he tries not to, LOL).


Question---sincere, NOT a challenge;
How is this funny to you?
I wonder what would happen if I shifted my perception to see it as "funny," and laughed at it. I'm sure my H would think *I* was possessed.
So seriously...how do you see it as funny if you're in the heat of battle?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

I don't think belittling people or calling them names or swearing at my SO are things I'd ever be OK with.


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## sleeplesssomewhere (Feb 15, 2011)

This is one of the reasons my H and I will be going to counseling. I know that there are couples that curse to each other, in general conversation, etc. I think that if it's part of an every day vocabulary for a couple (meaning in regular conversation) I can see how it might be "okay." I never curse. My H only uses this phrase with me. He knows it is not acceptable to say to his family, friends and coworkers. That is where my problem lies. I feel that he has more respect for everyone else by the way he communicates and reacts.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

One person's "just a word" is another person's pain. It is up to the individual to decide which is which, and that doesn't make one more right than the other. There are people who CHOOSE to conduct themselves differently, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If it doesn't bother some to be called names, good for you. That's YOUR life. But I'm just not willing to understand someone else's PoV SO MUCH that I throw my own out the window. If that's placing my value above someone else in some eyes, so be it. You're certainly entitled to that opinion. And honestly? If their PoV is that they're entitled to call me whatever name they want to, whenever, then they can just GO. Go find someone else to a b***h. Go tell someone else to f**k off. Point of views aside, I refuse to be treated like that. 

I can compromise with the best of 'em. And this IS a respect button for me. Whether anyone else thinks it should be or not. It simply IS. Would you tell your mother to f**k off? Your boss? Your child? Different reasons for not saying that to those people. I have my reason. That it bothers the OP does not make her wrong.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Well it's funnier than being hit with a large glass ashtray. So there's that.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Question---sincere, NOT a challenge;
> How is this funny to you?
> I wonder what would happen if I shifted my perception to see it as "funny," and laughed at it. I'm sure my H would think *I* was possessed.
> So seriously...how do you see it as funny if you're in the heat of battle?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, sorry LOL
I came to TAM because we've been having problems with sex, namely I have been denied. Obviously I "compensate" by masturbating, something that he knows about. When he tells me to "f*ck myself", he tells me to do something that I already do. I assure him I do, by saying "Oooh I will later tonight". Not much of an insult, when all is said and done. Even when we are pissed, we both kinda see the humor :rofl:


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

reachingshore said:


> Oh, sorry LOL
> I came to TAM because we've been having problems with sex, namely I have been denied. Obviously I "compensate" by masturbating, something that he knows about. When he tells me to "f*ck myself", he tells me to do something that I already do. I assure him I do, by saying "Oooh I will later tonight". Not much of an insult, when all is said and done. Even when we are pissed, we both kinda see the humor :rofl:


I'm sure my H wishes I was more like you in this respect---seeing humor when the negative emotions and issues are predominant.
That's not my default,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I'm sure my H wishes I was more like you in this respect---seeing humor when the negative emotions and issues are predominant.
> That's not my default,
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In a fight I am not much focused on offenses committed during. Sure, I will not allow to be called names (we talked about it in another thread). I will not let him get away with calling me a b!tch. I don't demand an apology for it, but I will signal this is something I will not take.

Sure, in the case of him telling me to "f*ck myself" I could very well react to it by blowing up and screaming something like "Well, I HAVE TO, because you won't give it to me you a$$hole!", but what's the point? We don't really have rows over sex. We have rows over problems. My thinking is I should focus on a problem that caused the fight in the first place, and not divert to bickering over unrelated things.

By replying "Oooh I will", I kinda give it back to him. I offend him back in a way, you see? I don't sit still and take it. Neither do I take offense at his offense. 

The fact that this exchange kinda diffuses the situation is an added bonus.


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

I have never said that or anything related to my wife in anger, nor has she done it to me.
If she ever did, I think I would tell her right off that if she EVER says something like that again, I am done.
To me, a foul retort like FU or KMA is just one step below cheating. It shows a complete lack of respect.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

She hasn't yet and she won't more than once. Love can't exist without respect. Regardless of how I feel, I always treat her with respect and at a bare minimum, I expect her to treat me with common decency and respect. There will be no cussing, shoving, or hitting, etc.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

Some people in the heat of an argument may use cursing the other as a way to end the argument. When he says F OFF do you go silent and walk away, ending the argument? He may not see a way to win the argument or simply doesn't want to argue, so he resorts to cursing you ensuring the end of the argument. You hesitant to bring up the subject again in fear the same hurtful wounding words may be spoken again. 

If his feelings are hurt he may lash out to hurt you knowing these words cut you. Words can cut deep, leave permanent scars.


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