# Wife flirted with coworker... I can't get over it.



## Alexandru (4 mo ago)

Hi good people. I post here for the 1st time with the hope to shed some light over my problem and to make sure i.m not insane. Please forgive my english if there are too many mistakes. Not a native speaker
I also apologise for the wall of text, but i feel like a have to get on the details in order to make me understood. 
Now to the matter at hand:

My name is Alex 32 ( male) . I'm in relation with this woman (34) since i was 19 and I can say we had a great relationship. We' ve got married 5 years ago and have 2 kids (5 and 2) together. As I said, all this years I had no moment of doubt in her and her actions until March of this year. We never had big fights about anything, we seemed to be comunicating very well about our needs and get along pretty good. 
Last year in Nov she got this new job at another school ( she is a teacher) and was happy about it. And I was happy for her too. Anyways in February I started to see a change in her behaviour that I couldn't really pin point at that time. She wasn't talking with me like before, she didn't write me as much when as before we were at work. Most of out her communication with me was about who does what with the kids, and her ranting about work. She will stay most of the evenings only at her computer to prepare her stuff for the next school day and then go early to bed. Now I told myself it might be the stress that gets the best out of her so she is exhausted so that might be a matter. Meanwhile I sat there watching tv or playing at the computer. I tried to get on track and support her more with stuff like, getting alone the kids prepared for bed, reading with them.. stuff like that so she may get earlier on her work and feel relived at least with this matters. Some weeks later she tells that some morning 2 colleagues of her which whom she gets along very well are coming to our home to prepare together some stuff for the school. No problem so far.
When the day comes I get to the door on the way to work and one of this colleagues its right there alone some 20 min. earlier then the she told me they be comming. At that moment I suddenly got a verry bad feeling out of nowhere so I wrote her on Whatsapp how I felt seeing this dude alone at the door and if there is something i should be worried about. She said no, I don t have to worry at all and later sent me a photo of her with this 2 guys at the table to show me they are working. In the evening we talked again, she assured me there is nothing I should worry about and I thought maybe I'm exagerating and so decided to brush it off. 
End of March I get back from work and I have a very bad feeling. I get her Phone and go to whatsapp and I see the first in the list it's this guy Marius that was the first at the door some weeks earlier but din't read anything. Later that evening we sat on the couch an I took her Phone to look at pictures. She suddenly got very deffensive and took the phone from me. Notice.. we never had a problem before with looking or useing eachothers phone. So that was for me a huge red flag that something it's rotten. And I asked wher is the problem. She said the is none but she doesn't like it and then she tried to get me to have sex whith her, which I refused, cause it felt like a manipulation and a desperate try to shift attention. Anyways she then went to bed early like always and I sat there watching tv. When I went to bed i saw that the phone it's there with her ( she never took the phone with her to bed) and decided to take it and look in it. Opened Whatsapp and surprise, the whole ****ing chat with this guy Marius it's gone. Now I was surae there is somthing wrong and looked in the photos. The I saw screenshots of the chats with this guy she took in order to share with a good gf of hers. One of the screenshots was where he asks her if she is into him, and a screenshot from the notification that she had 4 mesagges from him at 6 in the morning. So I went to the chat with her gf and there I got the confirmation. More screenshots from her chats with him, and one screenshot where he asks her what if I get to see the chats. She then says to her Gf .. " look he is even aware he is doing wrong" She was talking with this gf about him, and how she invited him to his bday already, and that they went with work colleagues in the club and she danced with him, and he touched her ass and shoved 20 euros between her tits. Enough.. I waked her up and confronted her right there. I asked direktly who this is, since when is this going one and if she slept with him. ( I didn t mention i saw the chats with this gf of hers) She tried to minimize everything: "Its just a friend from work, there is nothing, only jokes, I wouldn't cheat.. stuff like that". We had a huge fight that night. The next day again. I said I need her to restore all the chats and show me. She denied and said she can tell me and that I need to trust and belive her, and the she deleted only because she was affraid of my reaction. ******** I said. Show me the chats or we are done. Late that night she agried after hours of fightning to restore the chat. Sadly it did, not restore everything. I told her it's a hige red flag that I had to peak an ultimatum in order for her to show me the chat. The chat was beside work related stuff obvious flirting. Compliments, discution about me, that I am jealous and sociopathic but she loves me anyways. That I would linch her if I saw the texts but he shouldn't worry cause i don t look up her phone, stuff like that. 
Days passed and I took 2 Weeks of from work cause I was devastated and unable to work anymore . She went further to work. We talked every day. I cried, she cried, I asked what pushed her to disrespect our marriage like this. I asked if there is somethin more and told her that i need the pure truth, since when this is going? what was the reason? if I failed to take care of her needs and pushed het to this? She said she dosn't remeber when it started, that she loves only me and what she dous its only banter with a friend. She said that she is happy with me, that I am a great dad and husband and she ain't missing anything in the relationship. 
That make it for me even harder.. cause ther is no reason at all it seams, how the hell happens somthing like this then ? I felt that she was lying or better said told only half truths. So i decided to dig deeper on my own. I got in her PC and found all the deleted chats with the guy. in the cloud. They were chating everyday since December from 6 in the mornings till 23-00 in the night, everyday no matter if Weekend, Bday out doughter, christmas or new year. Heavy flirting, talking about how much amount of sex is good, she telling him her life is too monogamous, asking him about his taste in women, complimenting, asking if he thinks she is to old for him ( he is younger) . And all this starting allways from her not from him.. He just sort of entertain it. They where sending eachothe music with sexual texts, Connotations and double meaning mesagges. 
I sent her the chats and asked her if this it's banter and innovensive to her. she said Yes cause she never had feeling whatsoever for the guy and she know there is only me and cried saying she is sorry we need to make it work. I said I don t think I can and that if it weren't for the kids it would be allready done. She goes crazy when i mention leaving her and starts hiperventilating. 
I decided to move out for a time and told her she needs to come with a strategy to me how she thinks she can repare the damage done. She said she would stop the heavy chatting that she did inconscious and it's ready to do whaterver i need her to do in order to repair the damage. After some days i came back as Promised and we discussed what need to be done.
Now what i describe, happened over weeks. Her discourse cahanged whe she saw that the **** hit the fan really bad. She went from its' only banter to ... yeah i flirted but there was no EA ( I told her she had an EA) . She still says there was no Emotion involved and that she doesn t feel anything for him, nor is attracted to him. 
I told her to tell the guy to give me a call before I come to school and brake his ****ing jaw. She did, and he called me instantly. He told me he never saw the texts with my wife as flirts, that he has no interest in her whatsoever and considered it's only friendship and banter. He said he understands me and that everithing was exagerated and that he would have done the same if he were in my place. He said he would stop texting hey anything that is not related to work. 
To my wife I said, that I feel bad knowing that she sees him everyday and talks to him like there was nothing. I told her. before I am a complete asshole and ask her to change jobs, that she needs to reduce the contact to this guy to the minimum necesary only at work. I told her that I expect from her to not be seeing this dude outside the work no matter what the occasion. Only so I may be able to work with her trough this. At this point I may add the I do belive she shows true remorse, even though she doesn t accept the fact that she had an EA, she recognizes that this was a big fail from her part and she did promise never again to do something like this. I don t think she had an PA ..and I don t have any proof for that. The thing is, for me it feels the same EA, PA doesn t matter. 
I also need to add we had since alos good weeks and so far I checked she did talks to him only work stuff and very little. but I can't get over it. It is to much for me. I don t have a clear explanation about why and what happened. 
Now fresh this week she comes to me and tells me she wants to go to a wedding form a work colleague. I ask if the dude is there. She sais yes but I don t need to worry because she promised something and keeps her word. I went nuts. I told her that is not enough, and she needs to understand that I don t have a problem with her going to a weeding , but i have a problem with her going to a weeding where there is this guy also. That it makes me feel bad and drives me trough hell. She says she understands my pain , but she doesn t understands, why I have to make such unreasonable demands, that there is no possibility for her to avoid all contact with him, cause that would mean she wouldn t be participating anywere anymore with other colleagues because he is there, he is a colleague and nothing more she ain' t going to do nothing, That I need to get over and trust her. I said. I can't . I said this is what I can at the momment and she must accept it. I'm hurt, and I need to see that she makes sacriffices for us and doesn t go to a weeding cause she wants too even if it gets me hurt. She still doesnt understand it. and keeps repeating the same arguments. Yesterday she got an appointment at coulples therapist for next week. 
I'm at a point where I feel she doens't really respect me and I need to let her go. I'm sorry for my 2 kids, but I feel I can t live with her anymore. 
I'm I very unreasonable in my anger ? do I exagerate ? Is the light at the end.
Thanks all


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Don't blame you a bit. If it had not been physical yet, she was headed that direction very soon. Especially stating what she did about her life being too monogamous. She wanted some of this other guy and the info shows she was the aggressor in this. I would tell her she has to change schools at the least. She is looking to cheat, it is who she is unfortunately.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

In my opinion, not only does she need to not attend the wedding, but she also needs to quit her job. Which does she value more, her job or your marriage? She is the one who broke the trust in the marriage and she is the one who needs to repair it.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Based on your story here, you are 100% justified in your anger. She cheated, period, and she doesn't give a **** about how you feel. Only a fool would see what she was doing as just friendly banter. She has the hots for this guy, She should be completely no contact with her affair partner, which means she needs a new job. And the wedding, lol, please. The only way that should happen is if you are right by her side. If she doesn't agree to not going to the wedding and quitting her job then her marriage and family are not her priority.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Once trust is broken it does not just suddenly come back, she has lied to you and she broke your trust in her and she has to earn that trust back, and this is stilll too soon and to painful for her to expect to go to this wedding alone. Has she learned nothing from this ordeal...is she looking for a divorce? No you are not being unreasonable and she is looking perhaps not intentionly but certainly looking to spread her wings again. Cheating is a very sillery slope and she has proven she can cross boundaries.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

She did more than flirt. Flirting is fleeting & meaningless. What she did was practically seduce him. Her behavior was waaaayyyyy over the top. Don't sugar coat it. 

Your marriage is in serious trouble. If it can be saved at all, she has to quit that job & have no further contact with Marius. She absolutely cannot go a wedding without you. Too much potential for alcohol fueled problems.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Well, she's clearly a good liar and gaslighter. Like most cheaters. She's never going to admit half of what she does or feels, because she's trying to save face.

I'd say that she has to choose between her job and her marriage. Betting you she chooses her job. I mean she can't even stay home from a freaking coworkers wedding.

In your shoes, I'd say either one of her or this guy needs to quit the job or change locations. Or, you say the marriage is over.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Why aren’t you invited to the wedding? I would be suspicious, too. BUT…take a breath, and handle this calmly. No need to “go nuts.” I would simply say this isn’t acceptable and if you want to flirt and carry on with others, maybe we need to separate. I doubt she wants to separate. The thing with cheaters, whether it’s an emotional affair or physical, they want their marriage AND the affair. It’s not often that people divorce and go on to be with their affair partner. Yea it happens, but it’s rare for cheaters to willingly end their marriages to pursue their AP’s full time. If that were the case, you wouldn’t see so many cheaters begging their spouses for second chances vowing to dump their affair partners.

They want both - the sure thing at home and the adventure that an affair brings.

Be strong and calm - and stay firm on your feelings with this. Hope it gets better.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Your wife is a complete and total liar. Every word she said was a lie regarding this.
She is not remorseful whatsoever.

I’m not going to advise you what to do, but consider this: Do you want to spend your life being married to a complete liar that could easily (as she has done) start an affair and leave you at any time, with this man or another?

At the very least, she wouid change jobs or I would immediately divorce, and if you accept less, your wife will still be deep in an affair in her mind even if she stops contacting him, which is virtually impossible. If they work together, it will continue.

yeah, on second thought, I’ll advise you. Divorce her. Sadly, you won’t. Eventually she will leave you for another man, if not this one, another. She doesn’t love you. I’m sorry.


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

I don't know....he danced with your wife at a club and ran hìs hands all over your wife's ass and put 20 euros into her bra...touching her breasts in the process...Thats physical. I don't know if I would throw marriage away over that...But I do understand your anxiety about it.. Ball is in your court...She clearly has passed àny married boundaries


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Jimi007 said:


> I don't know....he danced with your wife at a club and ran hìs hands all over your wife's ass and put 20 euros into her bra...touching her breasts in the process...Thats physical. I don't know if I would throw marriage away over that...But I do understand your anxiety about it.. Ball is in your court...She clearly has passed àny married boundaries


This would be a definite ass whipping in his future. Whatever happens in the M.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

You deserve better than this. I think you are correct about leaving. She cheated. She wants a "non-monogomous" life. I'd say give it to her.


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> This would be a definite ass whipping in his future. Whatever happens in the M.


I totally agree...Yet he said she pursued him.. He's just reacting to what she put out there


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Jimi007 said:


> I totally agree...Yet he said she pursued him.. He's just reacting to what she put out there


If I was the OM, that's what I'd say too, in the moment if confronted.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Men, what is it with school teachers. I think that mentally they never left High School. I think that this marriage is almost to its expiration date. Dude, your wife is trying to fly away. She might deny it, but the writing is on the wall. You can try to see if it's salvageable, but if it becomes too hard, then don't waste any more time of your life. dump her. Love and relationship shouldn't be that hard.


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

@Alexandru she is not regretting what she had nor planning to stop moving forward with this guy. the fact that she is still arguing and push for you to trust her tells me she wants to sleep with that guy. 
she feels only bad because you caught her and not because you found out and in pain. 

I honestly think she might have slept with this guy already or gave him oral. come on, you are a guy and you know these things, Danced with her, touched her boobs with money, she likes him = they did more than flirting. 

if she had the smallest regret and respect for you she would have told you that the other guy would be there. and she would also stopped saying "you need to trust me". 

your made a mistake by 1- not pushing her to change jobs 2- asking her to keep communication to minimum ( there shouldn't be communication at all) 

and she need to also stop and cut her relationship with her Girlfriend who appears never tried to stop her from going that path. 

couples therapy only works when the cheater is fully regretting and admitting their mistakes. but your wife is not 

mark my words - your wife will continue communication with this guy emotionally and physically. things now just going under the radar

I would encouraged you to seek therapy and work on your marriage but appears your wife is not.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

This is not an issue of you "getting over it", this is an issue with your wife's lack of remorse, because she wants to continue her relationship with this guy.

Essentially, the affair has gone underground because you know about it and confronted her.

Her reactions are showing you that she is more concerned about being able to keep this guy around than to ensure she is saving her marriage and attempting to reconcile with you.

I bet the truth is that things have gone farther between them than you think.

She is intentionally deceitful to you, so all trust is broken.

At a minimum, she needs to get a new job and never have contact with this guy again.

At this point, you are always going to question what she is doing. If you stay with her passed this, you'll always wonder what really happened. This will gnaw at you and it will rear its head with new questions well into the future.

Your kids are young and will be ok regardless of what happens.

I would elevate this to the highest level with her, and I think you will save yourself a lot of pain down the road if you divorce her.


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

As long as she works with this Marius turd, it won’t end. Besides not trusting your cheating wife as others have pointed out, don’t believe of word from Marius. This dude wants to bang your wife. An older married woman and mom, lots of bragging rights for him.


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

Don't get yourself sidetracked with the guy. He would be as relevant as a microwave if your wife had no interest in him. Because she does entertain him, he's very relevant to you. So much so, you're here on TAM. Think about this for a minute.

Had your wife dismissed him as a nothing you would never have found and posted on this site. The fact is, your wife is the one and only driving force here, hence all thoughts and actions should be directed at her. By driving force I mean, all matters concerning her actions are 100% approved and possibly encouraged by her. If she didn't you would even be here.

Affairs are like colds or viruses. They are going to run their course no matter what you do. You can do things to shorten them and end them, but to a large extent it's going to run its course. Neither can you match the new energy an affair partner supplies.

Having said the above, this really is all about you and your decisions moving forward. Your decisions start from two questions you need to ask yourself.

1) Who and what does your wife want? Additionally, if she answered by choosing you, would you believe her and why? Many husbands are deftly afraid to ask these question and will seek comfort in reconciling without really digging for truth here in my opinion. They want truth about the affair, but not truth about what their wives want. Why?

Because the wife might say they want the other man or they're unsure who they want. Only 1 of 3 possible responses are good ones, so they don't even entertain the possibility that their wives could possibly want another man. The pain from that answer is too great to risk feeling after finding out about the affair itself, assuming that's what's happening here.

For me this is where it starts because before reconciliation takes place, both have to be EQUALLY committed. This is where BS compromise themselves and lose dignity and self respect. Many will CHOOSE to reconcile KNOWING or strongly suspecting their wives are not on board or are just partially on board. If a BS is 100% on board and the WS is 50% on board, it's not a reconciliation. Many BS ignore this reality and enters what I call a 'hope' reconciliation.

They see and will come here to complain about the lack of effort by the WS, but in reality they are accepting it and feel weakened by the fact that they care more than the WS and know it. They're the ones establishing and enforcing boundaries. They are the ones calling counselor's offices. They're the ones researching books and resources on how to proceed as one after infidelity. At this same time, they bond with the WW and demonize the AP as the predator and wife as the victim.

Just giving you a heads up on how the ugliness of infidelity unfolds itself and how you can combat the emotions that can reduce a man to a fraction of who you thought you were.

2) Is the marriage worthy of saving? Think about this one. Many, if not most automatically respond with a yes without thinking about it. The marriage and your wife are one in the same, so the real question is, do you want to be with your wife if she's capable of romantically engaging another man?

I've been cheated on while engaged by two separate fiancés. My words are not from fantasy, but reality. I went through this gauntlet of emotions and can recall my confusion at the time and my thoughts in reflection. This is why I post here. Last thing to remember is this, and it could be an eye opener.

The longing you have for your wife may match the longing she has for the other man, whether it's real or not. It's not for you to convince her it's not real. It's possible it is real. That's rarely mentioned here in my opinion. Many or most affairs are unreal, but there are billions of people in the world so it's possible she has met someone she thinks is better for her.

Personally, when I considered this during my experience with being cheated on, I attained peace which followed by indifference and was able to move on. I figured, I'm not the only catch in this world as it's a big place. Additionally, I WAS NOT going to re-compete for my fiancé, as that had already taken place and she agreed to marry. I still thought I was a catch though and knew my worth. So, I figured I'll be alright and assumed my x-fiancé's will be alright also. So, let's get on with our lives without each other.

And that's EXACTLY what happened. I found my current wife of 20 years 6 months later. So, had the affair not happened, I'd have never met my wife. Identify your biggest opponent. It's not your wife, but it's the fear. Fear of her not wanting to be with you. Fear of losing her, the marriage or your life. Most fears aren't real but we live as if they are. Tap into your fear. Once you address it you will then address everything else with confidence and conviction.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Your wife is a liar and a cheater.

If I were you, I'd divorce.


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## Trdd (Jan 11, 2022)

Get the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass and both of you read it immediately. 

Either her boundaries are terrible and she has no clue how far over the line she stepped *or* she is in an affair (ea or pa) and is covering up the extent of it. Either way, the book will be very helpful for her to realize what she has done. You are absolutely correct to be concerned with what already happened and what could happen next. Keep up the pressure for no contact with this guy. 

A few questions: 
Why arent you invited to the wedding? 

What did she say when you confronted her about the dancing? 

Let's say that they have not slept together yet. It is possible they have but let's say it hasn't happened. The 20 euro in the bra when dancing tells us a lot. That isn't banter. And in my mind it isn't "harmless flirting". That is a direct sexual suggestion that implies she was dancing erotically for him and being rewarded. If a guy did that with my wife I would expect her to blow up at him, be enormously offended and probably report him to management. The fact that your wife apparently enjoyed it tells you all you need to know. And it strongly leads me to believe that more happened you are not aware of.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

colingrant said:


> Identify your biggest opponent. It's not your wife, but it's the fear. Fear of her not wanting to be with you. Fear of losing her, the marriage or your life. Most fears aren't real but we live as if they are. Tap into your fear. Once you address it you will then address everything else with confidence and conviction.


This is very good insight @colingrant, you hit the nail on the head.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Why is your 34 year old wife going out clubbing without you when you have a 2 and 5 year old at home? If she’s admitting to her friend that he has his hands on her @ss and is putting many between her t!TS like she’s a common stripper giving him a lap dance, then it’s very likely that this has already gotten physical. Maybe not sex yet but she very likely has had passionate make out sessions that included heavy petting. 

She needs to change jobs ASAP. It sounds like she’s totally head over heals for this guy. Talking about him like a high school girl who has a crush. As long as she’s seeing this guy at work everyday, she’s not going to come out of the fog that she’s in. Your situation is worse than your title. This is way more than flirting with coworker. 

As for the wedding, why are you not invited? If you can’t be there, she shouldn’t either. Also sounds like that friend of her is not a friend of your marriage. A good friend would warn her to stop what she’s doing, not listen intently, like she’s living vicariously through her.


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## DosEquis (5 mo ago)

Please read No More Mr. Nice Guy. Please read it and internalize it. It is time to "release the Kraken" of justified anger and indignation. Heres a suggestion as to the form it could take with your cheating wife, "CW, listen, if going to a special occasion without me, but includes your boyfriend, is what makes you happy and fulfilled, which is what I want for you btw, then by all means go. Actually, fill up your calendar with occasions where you both can run into each other and be together if thats what you *need......but not as my wife.*

Think about it and get back to me by the end of the day so I know how to plan my life moving forward."

No more dissimulation. No more begging. No more back and forth. No more crying.

Its decision time.

Know your *worth *OP. Know it and believe it. If you dont, *who will????*


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

What she told him about monogamy, if it were my wife, would tell me she wants an open marriage and that would end it there. I'd be like damn, this woman is broken, time to get a newer model.

Which would probably be easy given today's world. Hell I've had hot young thangs look at me that way and I thought, "Oh hell, I'm 2x your age, you must have daddy issues, little girl I have a kid older than you"

If it was 30 yrs ago, hell yeah, but then again, she was not even a thought, hell her parents were probably in Jr. High.


Jimi007 said:


> I totally agree...Yet he said she pursued him.. He's just reacting to what she put out there


I'm a guy that says if a dude knows a woman is married he best keep hands off, it he has what's coming to him. If he does not know, then it is all on her.


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## SRCSRC (Nov 28, 2020)

Your wife needs counseling with a therapist versed in infidelity. Her attitude is horrible. She should be doing everything in her power to make things right but she is not doing it. BTW, what kind of a wedding invites a wife but not her spouse? I smell bull crap all over that story. Tell her point blank that you did not sign up to be her jailor and that you are ready to bail if she doesn't truly get what it means to be married and faithful. Tell her that she doesn't seem to get it and that you will be seeing a lawyer. Tell her that she better work her ass off to save the marriage by doing all the right things or you are gone. Tell her this is all on her and that she is hurting the lives of everyone, especially her children. She must change jobs. She must attend counseling. She must be proactive not reactive in taking steps to save the marriage. If not, don't waste too much more time with her. She will cheat again. Also, do not assume that it didn't reach the point of a PA. You may wish to demand that she sit for a polygraph as a condition to reconciliation. The important thing is to not back off one inch in what she has to do. Tell her clearly that everything is up to her at this point and that the marriage hangs by a thread due to her attitude, behavior, and views concerning monogamy.

Finally, there has been some level of physicality. He felt her up while dancing and put money between her breasts. That is total crap. Don't believe for a second that there hasn't been more physical interaction.


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## mickybill (Nov 29, 2016)

About the wedding, my XW was a teacher. At many schools there are a lot marriage age teachers so I remember there were a lot of weddings and I went to some but was not really "invited" all the time. The teachers wanted their work friends to be there and if they have 6 or 8 friends PLUS their spouses (some were single) they may not want to incur the costs of extra spouses. TBH at one wedding us random spouses had a lot of fun at "our table". 
My W became an EXW after she hooked up with an outside vendor not another teacher...


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## SRCSRC (Nov 28, 2020)

mickybill said:


> About the wedding, my XW was a teacher. At many schools there are a lot marriage age teachers so I remember there were a lot of weddings and I went to some but was not really "invited" all the time. The teachers wanted their work friends to be there and if they have 6 or 8 friends PLUS their spouses (some were single) they may not want to incur the costs of extra spouses. TBH at one wedding us random spouses had a lot of fun at "our table".
> My W became an EXW after she hooked up with an outside vendor not another teacher...


Hmm. I am an old geezer, so I don' know the way of things nowadays. But WW in this story has had her bite of the apple once. No second chance. No going to the wedding alone. If she can't understand that simple request, the OP is in for a rude ending to his marriage.


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## whammyface (5 mo ago)

Dude... it's time to stop trying to get through to her with words. It's time yonsleak with your actions. Filing for divorce and reporting the messages to the school will save your marrisge


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## whammyface (5 mo ago)

And the gf that knew and didnt tell you, needs to go too.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

SRCSRC said:


> Your wife needs counseling with a therapist versed in infidelity. Her attitude is horrible. She should be doing everything in her power to make things right but she is not doing it. BTW, what kind of a wedding invites a wife but not her spouse? I smell bull crap all over that story. Tell her point blank that you did not sign up to be her jailor and that you are ready to bail if she doesn't truly get what it means to be married and faithful. Tell her that she doesn't seem to get it and that you will be seeing a lawyer. Tell her that she better work her ass off to save the marriage by doing all the right things or you are gone. Tell her this is all on her and that she is hurting the lives of everyone, especially her children. She must change jobs. She must attend counseling. She must be proactive not reactive in taking steps to save the marriage. If not, don't waste too much more time with her. She will cheat again. Also, do not assume that it didn't reach the point of a PA. You may wish to demand that she sit for a polygraph as a condition to reconciliation. The important thing is to not back off one inch in what she has to do. Tell her clearly that everything is up to her at this point and that the marriage hangs by a thread due to her attitude, behavior, and views concerning monogamy.


Weddings are expensive, and many venues have capacity limits. I've seen a lot where a bunch of coworkers were invited but not the spouses, due to money and space constraints. The coworkers hung out together and had a blast and were happy to be included. It's not like they were familt or friends of both bride and groom. They are coworkers and enjoyed being there for their coworker. 

That's the kind of wedding. It happens.


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## SRCSRC (Nov 28, 2020)

I've been to many, many weddings in my lifetime and I have never seen it done where spouses are excluded. Maybe if the affair is a day wedding where there isn't dancing and it ends at a reasonable hour I can see that, but no way, no how would I go along with a Saturday night wedding where there will be dinner and dancing. I would not expect my wife to agree to go under those circumstances. But that's me. I've been cheated on by my ex-wife and there just is no way I am going to sit home on a Saturday night while my SO goes out and parties. I threw a large affair at a hotel many years ago. I invited my staff. Everyone who had a spouse was allowed to bring that person. BTW, I am not rich. But that's me. Weddings almost always result in hurt feelings by those that are excluded, but if you can't afford to allow you coworkers to bring their spouses, don't invite them.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

If she wasn’t cheating… put it this way: she was sending receptive vibes to the other dude. You may have been lucky in the sense that he failed to follow through on her insinuations, but your wife sent him “I want to mate” signals. And it was intentional. And she knew it.


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## SRCSRC (Nov 28, 2020)

I find the monkey business where the two of them danced, he grabbed her ass then shoved money between her breasts extremely disconcerting. Polygraph is a must at this point. You need to know as much as possible about what has been going on in order to reconcile. Your wife is a liar. Maybe she will cough up more information once a polygraph is set. But go through with it, regardless.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

Alexandru said:


> I told her to tell the guy to give me a call before I come to school and brake his ****ing jaw.


That is exactly the way to handle it. Seems like you sent a strong message and they both know you mean business and are not going to take this sh*t. I hope it puts an end to it for you, but it looks like he was phishing and she liked it.


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## So far so good (7 mo ago)

Your WW is having an EA at a minimum and won’t admit it. With infidelity, as long as the affair partners remain in contact, the A continues.

Your WW is still having an affair with this man.

If you want to stay in this relationship, the A has to stop and you need to get the truth… Because *you don’t know the whole truth yet*. That means:
1. She must quit her job.
2. You need full access to all her electronic devices.
3. She must admit it’s an affair
3. She must give you a timeline of her A including anything physical
4. You check her timeline with a polygraph

If she can’t do the above (as a minimum), it is best for your health and sanity to start the Divorce process. Then the good news is that she won’t have to be monogamous anymore. Your WW is free to flirt with any men, party, dance, have her ass and breast played with as mush as she wants, but not as your wife.

be calm, be firm and state your conditions.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Alexandru he groped your wife and shoved money between her breasts. Literally implying that your wife is no better than a prostitute.

And your wife was not offended by this? 

Your wife is cheating with him.

Inform the school.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

SRCSRC said:


> I find the monkey business where the two of them danced, he grabbed her ass then shoved money between her breasts extremely disconcerting. Polygraph is a must at this point. You need to know as much as possible about what has been going on in order to reconcile. Your wife is a liar. Maybe she will cough up more information once a polygraph is set. But go through with it, regardless.


Agree with polygraph. I wouldn't trust either of them and think they are hiding a lot more from you. Book the polygraph. Some members on here can let you know correct questions, but no more than 3 I think. The more questions the harder it is to tell if lying or truth. 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Cancel the couples counseling for two reasons:

1) your wife hasn't demonstrated that there's anything worth saving.
2) you don't need a lecture about her "unmet needs" that justifiably (according to the counselor) caused her to seek validation elsewhere. 

Did she really denigrate you by telling him you were sociopathic? That's another huge strike against her in addition to letting him touch her.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Why do you want to stay married to this woman? She is toxic and off balance mentally.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Alexandru said:


> talking about how much amount of sex is good, she telling him her life is too monogamous, asking him about his taste in women, complimenting, asking if he thinks she is to old for him ( he is younger)


There is only ONE way to interpret this -- it's not "joking" or "kidding" or harmless banter.
It is her FLAT OUT telling him that she is open to have sex outside of her marriage, and they BOTH know it.
She is trying to gaslight and misdirect you.
The whole thing with the wedding -- your wife has some nerve to even bring it UP to you much less actually go without you. She has NO CLUE how much this has done to you and your marriage.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

jlg07 said:


> There is only ONE way to interpret this -- it's not "joking" or "kidding" or harmless banter.
> It is her FLAT OUT telling him that she is open to have sex outside of her marriage, and they BOTH know it.
> She is trying to gaslight and misdirect you.
> The whole thing with the wedding -- your wife has some nerve to even bring it UP to you much less actually go without you. She has NO CLUE how much this has done to you and your marriage.


I think his wife does have a clue. She knows the OP and that he is going to accept this and do nothing. 
She’s one of the more remorseless cheaters I’ve seen here. I feel certain she’s not done with this affair. To think she’s not a total cheater is illogical.


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## stillthinking (Jun 1, 2016)

Sorry you are having to go thru this. My 2 cents….

If she truly loved and respected you, she would not have done any of this. And her actions prove that she has ZERO remorse and respect for you.

Do you want to spend the rest of your life playing detective? Having to check her devices all the time. Checking her location. Wondering if she is flirting with this guy. Or if she has found a new lover. Basically being the dad to a rebellious teenage daughter. 

Save yourself from the years of misery.

What does it say about her, that she would throw away her marriage and family, for some tingles?

Sadly she will find out the hard way that being a divorced single mom, with a history of cheating, is not helpful in the dating market. Many men will view her as recreational use only.

But maybe she will be cool with that, since the whole wife & mom thing isn’t enough for her.


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

@Alexandru ....do you have an update ?


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## Alexandru (4 mo ago)

Hi. people. Thx for your responses. There are alot of questions and I'll try to answer the best I can. The wedding ... only colleagues are invited cause of costs I guess. I ve been invited to weedings the same way and had to go without her.. Here in Germany that seems to be the case most of the times. 
She now says she won't go if I insist but that she would send me pictures and write me the whole time. She says she wants my trust back and can prove to me with this ocassion she means real buisness and it was only 1 mistake. If there is something going on.. they don't need this weeding to get together if they want anyways. But there is nothing she is going for this other colleague that is getting married and . bla bla 
Now at this point even if I forbid everythig it's not going to help or keep her doing it. I don't want to save this marriage with any price and I told her so. 
she needs to do the heavy lifting if she wants it. The moment she fails I am gone. I told her. 
About the couples therapy. The moment that jackass is going to put any blame on me to justify what she did. I'm gonna stand up and go. 
. 
Someone had a good point about fear: You are right, there are fears and I need to tackle them. I do fail somedays and fall back and I need to be ok with my self and accept the life as it is. but To keep that short.. I don't fear she doesn't love me anymore nor I don't fear she is going to cheat. I did ask her about that ofc. She swears she loves me. I told her, her actions speak against her statements and she begged to let her prove me. Beside that, this things are not under my control and if they are going to hapen it will happen. I just hate crap going behind my back. If it happens Just tell me and get the **** out.. not this what she did. Thats why i didn't push with the job change. If she is hardwired like crap it's going to happen anyways somewhere else. She says she ain't harwired like that and insists it was a mistake , now she is aware and carefull. The curiosity for me to see that it's weird I reccon. 

Most of the points you guys make I did talk with her in all this months. We disscussed the whole chats. I told her that is not banter.. and its a mating call. She swears she didn't mean it like that but She admits it was way over the top, she admits it was wrong and she crossed the boundaries and kepps begging for forgivness. She admits the way she talked with her gf it's high school level. I told her she has a ****ed up mentality and poor morals and her gf too, and that she needs to be single if monogamy is to much for her. She is aware I would be gone instantly if not for the kids. She says she was at no moment into that guy and it just escalated out of control, because she says is was about the writing and geting answers and not about his person. Ofc I called that Bullsit and don't belive a word. I told her that I don't give a **** if she has a crush on him or not. She is free to go.. but not with me and not behind may back. Since then she also gave me acces to all her phone, pc, apps and crap like that to check on her if I want.

When I talked to the dude on the phone. I told him he should come to us so I can introduce him to the kids. Told him if he wants her, he can have her but he needs to take her with the whole baggage and step in my place. If he ain't man enough to do that but continue the crap with her I'm gonna bust his ass, not for her cause she is the culprit here but because he ain't man enough to stay straight. Naturally he responded like a *****.. and said he never thought about her sexually and crap like that, that i allready mentioned in the OP

The club night. There where more colleagues not only them. I let here go there as the was at that moment no trust issue between us. I discussed with him the club thingy. he said he didn't grab her ass. At this point I do have to mention in the chat with her GF she said to her she felt a light swipe on her ass but is not sure if he ment it. Maybe she just wanted to brag to her gf. To be honnest I don't care.. it is allready to much no matter the circumstances. About the money in the bra, he ment it as a joke. I told him to get me his gf and let me shove her money in the panties as a joke. He appologized and said he went to far and he is sorry. Sadly he is single otherwise I would have contacted his gf. I did told him that he doesn't have the maturity and the balls to respect other people marriages... he didn't contradict and said he would stay far from her. 
She said about the night, the money thingy didn t offend her cause she took it as a joke, because there was between the colleagues an inside joke about smth like that. again i don't give a **** about this poor tries to justify things. She knows that cause I told her... now she says she recognizes that in the new light and this was very wrong of her. 
. 

At the moment the person that wants this relationship the most is her. At least so she says. I'm with a foot out allready and I told her so . As I said I'm kinda courious if she means what she says or Next foot will follow soon. Divorce is hard in Germany. We have to separate for a year before I can divorce her.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

If you don't go to the wedding, she don't go period.

She is manipulating you.

Be firm with your boundaries.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Stay vigilant, @Alexandru , trust your gut, it serves you well. I'm glad you took a strong stance in this. The POS OM fears you and your wife sees that you are not to be trifled with, but keep your eyes and ears open.

A sneaky Voice Activated Recorder (VAR) placed where she speaks over the phone most often and/or perhaps her car may give you information that could set your mind at rest or confirm your fears. I don't think it's a bad idea at all.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

The one clear thing you need to realize is all cheaters lie a lot. A lot!
Sorry you are here. They are never going to tell you the truth. Never. They’ll only minimize what you know.
Her new boyfriend is taking only what she is freely giving him.
You can only be a chump if you allow it. Talk or words mean nothing in these situations. Only your actions will count. Under the circumstances does her current job with her new boyfriend mean more than you and the marriage? Right now you can’t trust her or anything she says.
The ones who get through these situations the best get strong and stay there. Do not engage in the infamous ‘pick me dance’. All that does is make you look weak and unattractive.

The worst thing you can do is leave your home.


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

It seems to my like you have handled this like a boss...Good for you , I'm pulling for you my German brother !


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Alexandru said:


> Hi. people. Thx for your responses. There are alot of questions and I'll try to answer the best I can. The wedding ... only colleagues are invited cause of costs I guess. I ve been invited to weedings the same way and had to go without her.. Here in Germany that seems to be the case most of the times.
> *Under the circumstances she doesn’t need to go. If she does that tells you everything you need to know.
> 
> She now says she won't go if I insist but that she would send me pictures and write me the whole time. She says she wants my trust back and can prove to me with this ocassion she means real buisness and it was only 1 mistake.* If there is something going on.. they don't need this weeding to get together if they want anyways. But there is nothing she is going for this other colleague that is getting married and . bla bla
> ...


Indecision is a cheaters best friend and your worst enemy. Sorry but you need to wake up to reality.
You cannot make her do a thing. All you can control is you. Talk won’t get you there. It’s all about actions.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

Alexandru said:


> Naturally he responded like a ***.. and said he never thought about her sexually and crap like that


Hi Alexandru. On the statement above… I don’t think he’s lying. I don’t know if something was lost in translation but, to me, it sounded like it was your wife who was pursuing him, not the other way around. Men tend to be chasers, and the fact that he did not succumb to her flirting ought to tell you that either 1) he does not find her that attractive or 2) he genuinely did not want to harm your marriage. Yes, texts were exchanged, but he did not follow through, and men ALWAYS follow through when women make advances.

As far as what she’s saying… don’t know what to tell you. The trust, I suspect, is gone, and from here on out she will very deceptively try to rape and twist the language/communication with the sole intent of making you believe she is the person you once knew. She isn’t. She will say what you want to hear. Don’t bend to her. It’s abundantly clear to all of us that her word and her actions no longer match. Trust is something that will be only regained, if at all, once her actions consistently adhere to the boundaries you’ve set for yourselves in the marriage, regardless of what she says.

Wish you the best of luck.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Right now you are in shock. Never thinking this was something you’d have to deal with. You shouldn’t have to tell the woman you are married too how to be a faithful spouse.
What you need to get is she knew what she was doing was wrong but did it anyway. Right now she should be taking actions to develop trust and make you feel safe. 
If she isn’t doing that you don’t have much to work with.
Sorry but this is black and white. You can’t trust her words. Her actions tell you more.
Staying in limbo is self inflicted.


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## Trdd (Jan 11, 2022)

Good work. It sounds like you now have the leverage. I would stay vigilant, 50/50 chance she is still covering something more up. A VAR is a decent idea to me.

She is looking at the wedding wrong. She should be saying I won't go to show you that our marriage is most important. Instead "it's a chance to go and show you I won't cheat". What is that? Sounds 100% bzckwards to me and a bit worrisome. Could you let her go, get a babysitter and go to the venue to sneak a look at the reception? Or hire a PI to do it that night?


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

ButtPunch said:


> If you don't go to the wedding, she don't go period.
> 
> She is manipulating you.
> 
> Be firm with your boundaries.


listen to this guy


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

JBLH said:


> Hi Alexandru. On the statement above… I don’t think he’s lying. I don’t know if something was lost in translation but, to me, it sounded like it was your wife who was pursuing him, not the other way around. Men tend to be chasers, and the fact that he did not succumb to her flirting ought to tell you that either 1) he does not find her that attractive or 2) he genuinely did not want to harm your marriage. Yes, texts were exchanged, but he did not follow through, and men ALWAYS follow through when women make advances.
> 
> As far as what she’s saying… don’t know what to tell you. The trust, I suspect, is gone, and from here on out she will very deceptively try to rape and twist the language/communication with the sole intent of making you believe she is the person you once knew. She isn’t. She will say what you want to hear. Don’t bend to her. It’s abundantly clear to all of us that her word and her actions no longer match. Trust is something that will be only regained, if at all, once her actions consistently adhere to the boundaries you’ve set for yourselves in the marriage, regardless of what she says.
> 
> Wish you the best of luck.


Cmon man. Grabbing her ass, sticking money In her bra. And he wasn’t thinking anything sexual?
He didn’t succumb to her flirting? Seriously? How do you know it didn’t go further?
Because two people screwing around say it didn’t 😂🤣.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

Marc878 said:


> Cmon man. Grabbing her ass, sticking money In her bra. And he wasn’t thinking anything sexual?
> He didn’t succumb to her flirting? Seriously? How do you know it didn’t go further?
> Because two people screwing around say it didn’t 😂🤣.


You may be right… too much circumstantial evidence. His behavior is odd though… Men like to mark their territory. That he chose to back down so easily tells me that either 1) he really didn’t find her too appealing or 2) they didn’t do it.


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

after she cheated

didn't sleep

didn't go

didn't like

wants to fix the marriage

you trust her!!

goes about her business, minimal contact with the man

I can't understand your words

They're together at work every day, and you think there's going to be more at a wedding than at work?

I guess I don't understand the question

Leave the tale of staying for the kids to fix the marriage, you must stay to have a new and healthy relationship with your wife.If you are not well, the children will not be well. If you can't do that, get a divorce without trying to pretend.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

She can’t be this foolish about the crap she has been pulling. She knows it isn’t flirting. She knows she was cheating.

She is lying her ass off about this.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

Tell her it's her choice the wedding or your marriage. If she goes to the wedding that shows how little she values you, and divorce. If she decides not to go then she can't keep bringing it up. I think you deserve a good woman who doesn't have to get thrills from other men, EA's, PA's. Her excuses are ********.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

JBLH said:


> You may be right… too much circumstantial evidence. His behavior is odd though… Men like to mark their territory. That he chose to back down so easily tells me that either 1) he really didn’t find her too appealing or 2) they didn’t do it.


Or the OM knows OP can beat him unconscious and doesn’t want an ass beating.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Alexandru said:


> I told her, her actions speak against her statements and she begged to let her prove me.


So here is her test. She wants to prove it then SHE should, by herself, decide to NOT go to the wedding where he will be.
PERIOD. SHE needs to make that choice. If she doesn't and wants to go, that should give you the answer that her needs are more important than the marriage. You've told her how you feel.
I would say, I've told you I don't want you around him. You want to prove that our marriage is what you want.
Your choice.


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## SRCSRC (Nov 28, 2020)

I agree with much of what has been said. She should voluntarily not go to the wedding. Yet, she flips the script and says let me go so I can prove to you I won't cheat. How are you supposed to know if she decides to mess around with him at or after the wedding? She must suffer consequences for her actions. Not going to the wedding is the minimal thing she can do. Her comments that they were just joking around is nonsense and she knows it. It was heavy duty flirting. Even if they were just "joking around," this type of behavior leads to more serious involvement. It is the first step.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

JBLH said:


> You may be right… too much circumstantial evidence. His behavior is odd though… Men like to mark their territory. That he chose to back down so easily tells me that either 1) he really didn’t find her too appealing or 2) they didn’t do it.


An AP will often will back down in a confrontation then circle back for more. As long as they work together or have any contact the OP hasn’t accomplished a thing.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

SRCSRC said:


> I agree with much of what has been said. She should voluntarily not go to the wedding. Yet, she flips the script and says let me go so I can prove to you I won't cheat. How are you supposed to know if she decides to mess around with him at or after the wedding? She must suffer consequences for her actions. Not going to the wedding is the minimal thing she can do.


I agree. Who is the person that needs to be won over? Going to a wedding, probably out of town, with drinking and dancing, come on. If she hooks up with this guy, you think she’ll admit that or send you a pic of that? 

You did a good job on confronting OM and it does sound like he’s not into her as much as she is him but you know that us men can be weak when a woman is throwing herself at you. And going by your wife’s text conversation, she’s practically serving herself up on a platter. So even if he’s lukewarm attracted to her, enthusiastic no strings attached pus… is hard to pass up.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

Marc878 said:


> An AP will often will back down in a confrontation then circle back for more. As long as they work together or have any contact the OP hasn’t accomplished a thing.


Ahhh, true.

Always learning new things at TAM.


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## So far so good (7 mo ago)

What I find concerning in her responses is that she doesn’t view her actions as cheating, it’s all a “mistake”. She’s minimizing and not taking responsibility for her actions.

she is right that she can see the OM anytime she wants, so why is she still working there? You are ok with this?

As long as she doesn’t recognize that she is a cheater, all you will get is vague promises of not doing “mistakes” again.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

JBLH said:


> Ahhh, true.
> 
> Always learning new things at TAM.


There was a guy on here once who caught his wife having an affair and threatened to tell her AP’s wife. The AP was begging him and swore it would never happen again. He was so proud of his confrontation.
A few days later his wife accidentally butt dialed him. The AP was screwing her in her office.
This is just one of many I’ve seen over the years. 
Words don’t mean squat.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Facts:

Zero consequences given.

No confrontation of OM took place in person.

Lies by both the cheating wife and boyfriend are being given profusely at present.

OP is being treated by wife and her bf as if he’s an idiot: He’s not interested in her sexually? She had no interest in him? Are you freaking kidding me? Wow! 

Wife staying on the job with her boyfriend even after caught in an affair.

predictions:

wife will still be going to weddings and will still be partying it up on “girls night” type events and this will be accepted.
Wife will eventually call the OP insecure and controlling to get him to be afraid to say anything about shenanigans.

OP will be back in the same situation in less than a year.

From my perspective:
Either she moves schools or I wouldn’t even consider staying with her.

She is a total liar, you really should divorce her. She’s not marriage material.
Please don’t believe anything she says. Anyone that has any kind of experience dealing with infidelity can tell you that 100% of what she’s told you regarding this is a lie. All of it. Every word.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

It’s pretty clear. She’s wants to cake eat at your expense.
She’s married to you but acts like she’s single.
Let her go and save yourself.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Marc878 said:


> Let her go and save yourself.


The only true way to get out of infidelity.


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## crispy (4 mo ago)

My wife did something similar in 2008. She went further and thought she loved the other guy and told me to leave. The next day she realized it was just a mistake and we stayed together. I stayed because we had two kids (10 and 12), but I made sure she knew that I would have left if we didn't have kids. She never tried to fix things and I plan to leave and buy my own house in a few years. The trust never comes back by itself. If she doesn't take accountability for the damage she caused, and if she doesn't do the heavy lifting, then you'll just stop caring about her. Now we just get along and cohabitate. I still don't have trust that she won't stab me in the back again. Now I just want to get a quiet place in a small town and get a dog. Your wife stabbed you in the back and crushed your heart. It's not some thing you can just get over.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

MattMatt said:


> @Alexandru he groped your wife and shoved money between her breasts. Literally implying that your wife is no better than a prostitute.
> 
> And your wife was not offended by this?
> 
> ...


THIS


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

ABHale said:


> Or the OM knows OP can beat him unconscious and doesn’t want an ass beating.


I find this one the only probable alternative.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Alexandru said:


> .........The wedding ... only colleagues are invited cause of costs I guess. I ve been invited to weedings the same way and had to go without her.. Here in Germany that seems to be the case most of the times.
> ....... I don't want to save this marriage with any price and I told her so.
> she needs to do the heavy lifting if she wants it. The moment she fails I am gone. I told her.
> About the couples therapy.
> ...


A few things. First, never threaten violence. It can come back to haunt you in divorce proceedings.

I have read the posts up to this point and I just don't understand one thing. What kind of school or business organization would allow scandalous contact among its teachers? I mean if this happened in the USA and a husband reported this to a school, most likely both would be fired and told to find work elsewhere. I don't know employment laws in Germany, but I can't believe this is appropriate conduct among co-workers in charge of the morals of students.

Next, you really need to think long and hard about your children. Figure out if they would be better off with you or their mother should the two of you divorce. Because she hasn't really committed to the marriage and its repair, you need to figure out what is best for your children. If she is really as off to conferences and weddings without you and her children, they are probably better off with you.

From your most recent post you sound like you are not really committed to being married to her and to making the marriage work. Marriage is hard work and it takes two to both commit to making it work. If you are not committed, she can't make the marriage work by herself. For things to get resolved you will need to work through issues until you can provide her with forgiveness for what she did. It will be hard and marriage counseling may help you understand that she is a flawed human being who failed in her responsibilities as a wife, but she regrets what she did and is committed to rebuilding both your trust and your marriage. She will have to understand that while you can forgive her as someone who was human and made a huge mistake, that it will take time to build trust. He giving you complete electronic access is a good first step, minimal but still a good first step.

The point of all this is, do you want to try to save the marriage? Do you want to divorce her? What is it that you want? You can't save the marriage by yourself nor can she. After what she has said or done, do you want to commit to trying to save the marriage? Tell her that you feel marriage counseling is something that might help you better understand whether you want to divorce her or to work on saving the marriage. Treat it as that.

I am certain that you children know that there is a problem between the two of you. You might want to ask your wife what the two of you should tell them? Should you just say that the two of you are now in a position where the two of you have some trust issues with each other that have nothing to do with the children but the problems are very serious? She needs to understand that not only is this between you and her, but you are contemplating divorce and that will impact your children and they will need time to adjust if you move toward divorce. Tell her you have looked up the divorce laws and there is a one year separation requirement before divorce is finalized.

Good luck. She got caught, she lied and made it worse, she doesn't want to live with the consequences of what she did. She is only partially admitting guilt and expressing remorse for HER actions. Don't sweep this under the rug, which is what she is trying to do. Her providing electronic access is a good minimal first step, but she really need to start being more empathetic and putting herself in your shoes. Ask her to imagine being you and having your wife want to go off to a wedding without her husband. Ask her to start viewing all her actions from the prospective of a husband who has been lied to about inappropriate behavior with a member of the opposite sex. 

She needs to commit to the marriage, commit to building trust by seeing things from your perspective.


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

Well spoken @Young at Heart


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## Alexandru (4 mo ago)

@Young at Heart . Thanks man! your post does help. You are right ! I'm not commited anymore. At least not under this circumstances and with what she has to offer. I'm thinking very hard about the kids and what is going to happen, thats what makes it so for me hard and pushed me into depression. If there were no kids. this would be rather easy for me. I despise infidelity no matter if physical or emotional and there is the end. I know who I am and what I stand for. I'm also confident I will be in a new relation in short time if I really wanted. I'm not stupid and I can see how women react around me. Kids make it hard. I think you are right and we do need to talk with the kids. They definitely know there is something wrong. I know it takes both to fix the marriage but all the talkng I had with her shows me she can't or doesn't want to see things from my perspective. And is not capable to work on things from my perspective. It seams to me she is afraid about what she may discover about herself, if she trully see inside her and the things how they are, so she keeps telling herself it was not infidelity. 
I'm aware that she is flawed and humans do make mistakes, and I am capable of forgivness, but then I need to see this empathy that you also mentioned. The power to see that your partner it's in a bad place and you contributet to that. That you are ready to renounce things you maybe be doing under normal circumsances, for the sake to make your partner feel loved and cared for, and not taken for a fool that is exagerating cause he doesn't belive words anymore. I'm not even expecting to renounce at everything only matters concerning this asshole dude that entertained her vanity. I*m expecting absolute transparency, fidelity, honestity, exclusivity. Things that should be obvious in any relationship where partners respect eachother and committet willingly into a monogamous relation. She failed to provide that once and now expects me to trust. It seems she belives trust comes back after some months cause she stoped with what she was doing. Or that is something you can buy at supermarket. Oh.. I lost that trust, ... I'm gonna go get some more. 

She seems to me so selfcentered that wants things to go only the way she imagins they should go, who ain't ready to lose anything that makes her feel complete, nothing. She is so deluded it seems she thinks, she can repair it in her own way. Even if I told her it ain't helping. Yet it's fully acceptable for her to go to a weeding or to other occasions where this guy also goes and put me trough ****ing hell. She doesn't understand or doesn't want to understand why I make this demands. That shows me a real lack of empaty and tells me alot. She even dared to tell me she wants to go there as a mean of psychical hygene, from all this stress. Are you fking joking me? You go for psychical hygene at my expense ? Knowing my psychical condition? Yeah talking abut empathy and putting yourself in the shoes of others. So Narcissistic. Fk man if I was doing something that hurted her like that. I be willing to make everything she asked in order to gain forgivness, no matter if I thought it's to much or to little. It can't be so fking hard to listen to your partner needs. 
After the disscution we had yesterdy I'm even less commited than I was when I last posted. She pushes me out of this and does't even realize what she is doing. Very weird. 
Anyways. I will go to this couples theraphy with her and treat it as way to figure out if i can stay in this or really need to get out.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

Alexandru said:


> @Young at Heart . Thanks man! your post does help. You are right ! I'm not commited anymore. At least not under this circumstances and with what she has to offer. I'm thinking very hard about the kids and what is going to happen, thats what makes it so for me hard and pushed me into depression. If there were no kids. this would be rather easy for me. I despise infidelity no matter if physical or emotional and there is the end. I know who I am and what I stand for. I'm also confident I will be in a new relation in short time if I really wanted. I'm not stupid and I can see how women react around me. Kids make it hard. I think you are right and we do need to talk with the kids. They definitely know there is something wrong. I know it takes both to fix the marriage but all the talkng I had with her shows me she can't or doesn't want to see things from my perspective. And is not capable to work on things from my perspective. It seams to me she is afraid about what she may discover about herself, if she trully see inside her and the things how they are, so she keeps telling herself it was not infidelity.
> I'm aware that she is flawed and humans do make mistakes, and I am capable of forgivness, but then I need to see this empathy that you also mentioned. The power to see that your partner it's in a bad place and you contributet to that. That you are ready to renounce things you maybe be doing under normal circumsances, for the sake to make your partner feel loved and cared for, and not taken for a fool that is exagerating cause he doesn't belive words anymore. I'm not even expecting to renounce at everything only matters concerning this asshole dude that entertained her vanity. I*m expecting absolute transparency, fidelity, honestity, exclusivity. Things that should be obvious in any relationship where partners respect eachother and committet willingly into a monogamous relation. She failed to provide that once and now expects me to trust. It seems she belives trust comes back after some months cause she stoped with what she was doing. Or that is something you can buy at supermarket. Oh.. I lost that trust, ... I'm gonna go get some more.
> 
> She seems to me so selfcentered that wants things to go only the way she imagins they should go, who ain't ready to lose anything that makes her feel complete, nothing. She is so deluded it seems she thinks, she can repair it in her own way. Even if I told her it ain't helping. Yet it's fully acceptable for her to go to a weeding or to other occasions where this guy also goes and put me trough ****ing hell. She doesn't understand or doesn't want to understand why I make this demands. That shows me a real lack of empaty and tells me alot. She even dared to tell me she wants to go there as a mean of psychical hygene, from all this stress. Are you fking joking me? You go for psychical hygene at my expense ? Knowing my psychical condition? Yeah talking abut empathy and putting yourself in the shoes of others. So Narcissistic. Fk man if I was doing something that hurted her like that. I be willing to make everything she asked in order to gain forgivness, no matter if I thought it's to much or to little. It can't be so fking hard to listen to your partner needs.
> ...


She sounds like she is totally unrepentant, which is bad. Lack of empathy is a sure fire way of passive-aggressively accepting fault. If she's acting like she doesn't care is because she has feelings for the other guy and is totally fine with your relationship going down the drain. If she understands that that which she precipitated will take many years to recoup (trust) then you can start building on that, but if I'm reading you right, it sounds as though she wants you to move on from the "situation" and act like it wasn't that bad and she wants you to go back to your old self so... I'd really start working on the 180º *IF*, after the counseling, she still doesn't understand the caliber of f-ck-up she put you all through.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

Look at this post by bygone. It was posted in another thread but it's still relevant in how things tend to proceed in similar situations: 



bygone said:


> your wife is not stupid, most cheaters are smart enough to control their partner.
> 
> she knows that the marriage is over.
> 
> ...


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## So far so good (7 mo ago)

Alexandru said:


> She even dared to tell me she wants to go there as a mean of psychical hygene, from all this stress.


it sounds like your WW is emotionally attached to the OM and she either doesn’t realize it or she doesn’t want to admit it.

Either way, she is not committed to you, your family nor your marriage. Talk to a lawyer, start the D process. Children can be happier with divorced parents as opposed to married parents that don’t love each other.

If she wants to talk more, tell her “I would like to discuss more and keep my marriage but not when my wife is involved with another man”. Then leave the room and go for ice cream with your children.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Alexadru, have you at least seen a few lawyers to understand the financial/child support and custody/etc. issues?
It may help you have a few plans for yourself -- some if things DO work out, and some if they don't.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

JBLH said:


> You may be right… too much circumstantial evidence. His behavior is odd though… Men like to mark their territory. That he chose to back down so easily tells me that either 1) he really didn’t find her too appealing or 2) they didn’t do it.


Or 3) he is now frightened of having to deal with her husband?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

There are some men and women who are never emotionally or mentally mature enough to be capable of being faithful or married.


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## AzovSteel (5 mo ago)

Alexandru said:


> She pushes me out of this and does't even realize what she is doing


Could it be that she actually does consciously or subconsciously realizes what she is doing?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Alexandru said:


> ....... I'm not commited anymore. At least not under this circumstances and with what she has to offer. I'm thinking very hard about the kids and what is going to happen, thats what makes it so for me hard and pushed me into depression.
> 
> .......I think you are right and we do need to talk with the kids. They definitely know there is something wrong. I know it takes both to fix the marriage but all the talkng I had with her shows me she can't or doesn't want to see things from my perspective.
> 
> ...


First, congratulations on going to couples therapy with her. If I were you, I would prepare a short list of 4 to 6 items you want the couples therapy to focus on. In marriage counseling with my wife the counselor wanted a short statement on goals for the therapy sessions to help her design a program for us. The questions you might want the counselor to answer might include:

 Whether in the opinion of your marriage counselor, your marriage has a reasonable chance of being salvaged?
 If after a session or two the marriage counselor feels more comfortable that the marriage can be salvaged, what are the specific things each of you will need to change about yourselves, and how can the other help you with those changes? Are there specific homework assignments the councilor will provide that will teach each of you skills you need to know? What are the specific commitments and promises to each other that will help save the marriage?
How long should you try before you reevaluate the probability of saving the marriage or give up on saving the marriage and start planning for divorce?
What should you tell your children and when? Depending on the success of the marriage counseling, there may be opportunities at different phases in the process to let the children know what is happening. What is the marriage counselors experience and recommendations on this topic?
If either or you both reach a conclusion that the marriage cannot be salvaged how should you best use the one-year mandatory separation period before divorce so that each of you and your children will be emotionally the strongest for the next phases in your respective lives?


Second, you say you are capable of forgiveness. Work on forgiving her. Forgiving her is not the same as staying married to a woman you do not trust and will likely betray you in the future if you stay married to them. Forgiveness is about ending anger over past actions. Anger is an emotion that allows her to hurt you. To heal yourself you need to let go of the anger. The end of the marriage will hurt her more than you and you need to pull yourself together so you can be healed by the time your divorce is finalized, if that is what happens. There are ways of helping yourself forgive someone. 

When I was working with a Sex Therapist/Marriage Counselor on repairing my sex starved marriage, I used affirmations and self-hypnosis to forgive my wife. Affirmations and self-hypnosis are used in many weight-loss, stop-smoking, kinds of programs. The theory is that by repeating and mentally visualizing something your conscious mind can communicate those messages to your subconscious mind. Tell yourself that she is a flawed human being and made a mistake. A mistake that can be forgiven. Tell yourself that you are lucky that you learned about her true nature so early in your marriage. Tell yourself that with or without her you can still have a great relationship with your children and that you want to strengthen that relationship now to be the best father for them you can be. Tell yourself that you are worthy of the love and respect of a good woman; that good woman can either be your wife or if the two of you divorce another woman you meet after your divorce is finalized. Visualize being happy with the love of a good woman, sharing your life with your children and a woman who you trust and respect.

Good luck.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Alexandru said:


> @Young at Heart . Thanks man! your post does help. You are right ! I'm not commited anymore. At least not under this circumstances and with what she has to offer. I'm thinking very hard about the kids and what is going to happen, thats what makes it so for me hard and pushed me into depression. If there were no kids. this would be rather easy for me. I despise infidelity no matter if physical or emotional and there is the end. I know who I am and what I stand for. I'm also confident I will be in a new relation in short time if I really wanted. I'm not stupid and I can see how women react around me. Kids make it hard. I think you are right and we do need to talk with the kids. They definitely know there is something wrong. I know it takes both to fix the marriage but all the talkng I had with her shows me she can't or doesn't want to see things from my perspective. And is not capable to work on things from my perspective. It seams to me she is afraid about what she may discover about herself, if she trully see inside her and the things how they are, so she keeps telling herself it was not infidelity.
> I'm aware that she is flawed and humans do make mistakes, and I am capable of forgivness, but then I need to see this empathy that you also mentioned. The power to see that your partner it's in a bad place and you contributet to that. That you are ready to renounce things you maybe be doing under normal circumsances, for the sake to make your partner feel loved and cared for, and not taken for a fool that is exagerating cause he doesn't belive words anymore. I'm not even expecting to renounce at everything only matters concerning this asshole dude that entertained her vanity. I*m expecting absolute transparency, fidelity, honestity, exclusivity. Things that should be obvious in any relationship where partners respect eachother and committet willingly into a monogamous relation. She failed to provide that once and now expects me to trust. It seems she belives trust comes back after some months cause she stoped with what she was doing. Or that is something you can buy at supermarket. Oh.. I lost that trust, ... I'm gonna go get some more.
> 
> She seems to me so selfcentered that wants things to go only the way she imagins they should go, who ain't ready to lose anything that makes her feel complete, nothing. She is so deluded it seems she thinks, she can repair it in her own way. Even if I told her it ain't helping. Yet it's fully acceptable for her to go to a weeding or to other occasions where this guy also goes and put me trough ****ing hell. She doesn't understand or doesn't want to understand why I make this demands. That shows me a real lack of empaty and tells me alot. She even dared to tell me she wants to go there as a mean of psychical hygene, from all this stress. Are you fking joking me? You go for psychical hygene at my expense ? Knowing my psychical condition? Yeah talking abut empathy and putting yourself in the shoes of others. So Narcissistic. Fk man if I was doing something that hurted her like that. I be willing to make everything she asked in order to gain forgivness, no matter if I thought it's to much or to little. It can't be so fking hard to listen to your partner needs.
> ...


A choice is not a mistake. It was a decision.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Young at Heart said:


> A few things. First, never threaten violence. It can come back to haunt you in divorce proceedings.
> 
> I have read the posts up to this point and I just don't understand one thing. What kind of school or business organization would allow scandalous contact among its teachers? I mean if this happened in the USA and a husband reported this to a school, most likely both would be fired and told to find work elsewhere. I don't know employment laws in Germany, but I can't believe this is appropriate conduct among co-workers in charge of the morals of students.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately like a lot she’s sorry she got caught.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Marc878 said:


> A choice is not a mistake. It was a decision.


Hmmm. We could debate this or agree to disagree. I think that a decision can be a defective judgement and hence a mistake. You obviously feel differently.

choice
*noun*

The act of choosing; selection.
The power, right, or liberty to choose; option.
An alternative.
mistake
*noun*

An error or fault resulting from *defective judgment*, deficient knowledge, or carelessness.
A misconception or misunderstanding.
decision
*noun*

A conclusion *or judgment reached after consideration*.
The act of reaching a conclusion or of passing of judgment on an issue under consideration.
Firmness of character or action; determination.


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## CTPROF (6 mo ago)

Young at Heart said:


> Hmmm. We could debate this or agree to disagree. I think that a decision can be a defective judgement and hence a mistake. You obviously feel differently.
> 
> choice
> *noun*
> ...


She chose. An EA or PA are not mistakes. The ww or wh makes the decision to cheat. They cheat because they want to. Cheating is not a mistake but a decision. End of story.


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

I wonder if she wants to go to the wedding to save face with her work colleagues. ?Maybe they don't know what she's been up to ?
Otherwise I don't understand her decision to go...
If she knows it's going to hurt you....And knows you don't trust her , how would that build trust ? 
It doesn't


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Alexandru said:


> Hi good people. I post here for the 1st time with the hope to shed some light over my problem and to make sure i.m not insane. Please forgive my english if there are too many mistakes. Not a native speaker
> I also apologise for the wall of text, but i feel like a have to get on the details in order to make me understood.
> Now to the matter at hand:
> 
> ...


She is playing with you dude.

Move to divorce decisively. She is ridiculous.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Young at Heart said:


> Hmmm. We could debate this or agree to disagree. I think that a decision can be a defective judgement and hence a mistake. You obviously feel differently.
> 
> choice
> *noun*
> ...


There is no debate. A mistake is something you didn’t mean to do. Screwing around behind your spouses back is a choice. A decision.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Jimi007 said:


> I wonder if she wants to go to the wedding to save face with her work colleagues. ?Maybe they don't know what she's been up to ?
> Otherwise I don't understand her decision to go...
> If she knows it's going to hurt you....And knows you don't trust her , how would that build trust ?
> It doesn't


Cake eaters don’t care. This is real simple. It’s all about them. No one else matters,


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## Trdd (Jan 11, 2022)

Marc878 said:


> There is no debate. A mistake is something you didn’t mean to do. Screwing around behind your spouses back is a choice. A decision.


I get what you are saying and it is something all the infidelity boards espouse, however, it is faulty grammar. A choice can also be a mistake. The definition above is clear on that. 

Yes, infidelity is a choice. A WW does not fall down and find herself impaled by the posom's junk, lol. No one has ever said "Honey, I slipped and his penis just popped into my mouth!" But you can make a choice and it can also be a mistake. A mistake does not have to be something done purely by accident, as the definition posted above clearly states. Some people who have affairs do not feel like it was a mistake after, they may marry the AP. Many people seem to see their affair as a mistake after it is discovered though. They see it as a poor choice, hence a mistake.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Trdd said:


> I get what you are saying and it is something all the infidelity boards espouse, however, it is faulty grammar. A choice can also be a mistake. The definition above is clear on that.
> 
> Yes, infidelity is a choice. A WW does not fall down and find herself impaled by the posom's junk, lol. No one has ever said "Honey, I slipped and his penis just popped into my mouth!" But you can make a choice and it can also be a mistake. A mistake does not have to be something done purely by accident, as the definition posted above clearly states. Some people who have affairs do not feel like it was a mistake after, they may marry the AP. Many people seem to see their affair as a mistake after it is discovered though. They see it as a poor choice, hence a mistake.


A mistake is unintentional and a choice is deliberate. There is most definitely a difference.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Trdd said:


> I get what you are saying and it is something all the infidelity boards espouse, however, it is faulty grammar. A choice can also be a mistake. The definition above is clear on that.
> 
> Yes, infidelity is a choice. A WW does not fall down and find herself impaled by the posom's junk, lol. No one has ever said "Honey, I slipped and his penis just popped into my mouth!" But you can make a choice and it can also be a mistake. A mistake does not have to be something done purely by accident, as the definition posted above clearly states. Some people who have affairs do not feel like it was a mistake after, they may marry the AP. Many people seem to see their affair as a mistake after it is discovered though. They see it as a poor choice, hence a mistake.


Calling a choice or decision a mistake is just an excuse.


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

Jimi007 said:


> I wonder if she wants to go to the wedding to save face with her work colleagues. ?Maybe they don't know what she's been up to ?
> Otherwise I don't understand her decision to go...
> If she knows it's going to hurt you....And knows you don't trust her , how would that build trust ?
> It doesn't


I think she came up with some lame reason like if she goes to the wedding, she can prove she won't cheat with the other man being there. It's mind-boggling.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Trdd said:


> I get what you are saying and it is something all the infidelity boards espouse, however, it is faulty grammar. A choice can also be a mistake. The definition above is clear on that.
> 
> Yes, infidelity is a choice. A WW does not fall down and find herself impaled by the posom's junk, lol. No one has ever said "Honey, I slipped and his penis just popped into my mouth!" But you can make a choice and it can also be a mistake. A mistake does not have to be something done purely by accident, as the definition posted above clearly states. Some people who have affairs do not feel like it was a mistake after, they may marry the AP. Many people seem to see their affair as a mistake after it is discovered though. They see it as a poor choice, hence a mistake.


Well, I'm for calling choices bad, good or meh but not a mistake.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Very disturbing that she views this as anything other than cheating. Also very disturbing and cruel that she is gaslighting you, alleging this was merely flirting. Does she think you are stupid?
You're ve disclosed to her that you saw the comments on monogamy, his ass grabbing, her concern that she was too old, and her enthusiasm about the interaction as confided to her girlfriend. Yet, she insults your intelligence by trying to characterize her behavior as mere flirting.
.It appears she has no respect for you and thinks you are feeble minded.
Even more mind boggling is her advocacy for her solo attendance at a wedding where this guy is present. 
Can I ask if in areas other than this cheating you have uncovered, does she treat you with such disrespect? Has she always been this oblivious to your feelings and her own behavior? You may be dealing with a personality disordered wife, perhaps a narcissist or borderline. Maybe start researching the Cluster B personality disorders.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Captain Obvious said:


> I think she came up with some lame reason like if she goes to the wedding, she can prove she won't cheat with the other man being there. It's mind-boggling.


Kind of like that little dog in Australia that wasn't scared of the croc and finally got snapped up like a chicken nugget.


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## Trdd (Jan 11, 2022)

Marc878 said:


> Calling a choice or decision a mistake is just an excuse.


Au contraire,, admitting a choice was a mistake means admitting you were wrong. Simply by definition, as the other poster proved very directly.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Trdd said:


> Au contraire,, admitting a choice was a mistake means admitting you were wrong. Simply by definition, as the other poster proved very directly.


How is this advice for helping the OP?

She made a choice to cheat, simple to understand really. She doesn’t think it was a wrong decision.

So why are you arguing about the definition of a word?


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Trdd said:


> Au contraire,, admitting a choice was a mistake means admitting you were wrong. Simply by definition, as the other poster proved very directly.


If you can say, Oops, and move on from it with no real loss, like buying skimmed milk instead of whole-milk, that is a mistake. A mistake can be made by being inattentive, rather than making a choice.

When you plan to deceive your spouse, flirt, communicate inappropriately, stare longingly into the other's eyes, kiss, fondle , book hotel rooms, drive to meet up with with an AP, loosen a button, loosen another button, drop the clothes, drop the underwear, those are all choices. From the initial spark to the actual adultery, thousands of choices to betray your spouse has been made. All of them deliberate, calculated and made with the utmost disrespect to the spouse.

Calling that chain of choices with which the BS will be whipped bloodily and later weigh on the heart of the BS for the rest of their lives a (singular) mistake heaps further disrespect on an already injured person.

If it's just semantics, then the difference between the butter slipping from you hand , splatting on the floor and planned first degree murder is also simply semantics.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Trdd said:


> Au contraire,, admitting a choice was a mistake means admitting you were wrong. Simply by definition, as the other poster proved very directly.


😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣 too funny


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Trdd said:


> Au contraire,, admitting a choice was a mistake means admitting you were wrong. Simply by definition, as the other poster proved very directly.


Did Hitler choose to invade Poland or was that a mistake? Bit extreme, but hey.

Buying a Snickers instead of a Hershey bar was a mistake, stealing the Snickers was choice. 

Another way I've seen it put: Mistakes free you from self-imposed guilt, while poor choices require ownership and responsibility. There is no need to carry around guilt for an honest mistake, not so for making a poor choice. A cheater calls it a mistake to alleviate their guilt while not taking responsibility for it. 

And another: Mistakes do not carry with them selfish motivations, but poor choices do.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

From what I’ve seen calling deceit and infidelity a mistake makes it easier to take. 
That’s not who they really are. They really wouldn’t do this so I’m ok with a mistake and it’ll never happen again. 
It’s like blaming the AP for the affair.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

Marc878 said:


> From what I’ve seen calling deceit and infidelity a mistake makes it easier to take.
> That’s not who they really are. They really wouldn’t do this so I’m ok with a mistake and it’ll never happen again.
> It’s like blaming the AP for the affair.


Calling infidelity a mistake is the equivalent of equating hunger with fasting.


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## Trdd (Jan 11, 2022)

Dictum Veritas said:


> If you can say, Oops, and move on from it with no real loss, like buying skimmed milk instead of whole-milk, that is a mistake. A mistake can be made by being inattentive, rather than making a choice.
> 
> When you plan to deceive your spouse, flirt, communicate inappropriately, stare longingly into the other's eyes, kiss, fondle , book hotel rooms, drive to meet up with with an AP, loosen a button, loosen another button, drop the clothes, drop the underwear, those are all choices. From the initial spark to the actual adultery, thousands of choices to betray your spouse has been made. All of them deliberate, calculated and made with the utmost disrespect to the spouse.
> 
> ...


_Tldr version: I understand the word mistake is a trigger for many betrayed; at the same time the definition of the word is far more expansive than just an accident and includes "wrong actions and defective judgement" which are accurate but incomplete ways to begin to describe infidelity. Not all people who use the word mistake are intentionally trying to minimize their actions, although some are._

First, I have read explanations similar to yours for years, literally. It is not new to the infidelity space nor to me; it's on every infidelity board and I do not disagree with it in principle. You dont have to convince me of the idea nor the severity of the betrayal of infidelity. I have never and would never try to minimize infidelity nor relate it to a simple accident. 

Look at these statements below. If you read them without the prior back and forth around the word 'mistake' you might agree with them appropriately _beginning_ to describe the betrayal of infidelity.... _although admittedly incomplete: _

"An error or fault resulting from *defective judgment". *

"*An action or judgment that is misguided or wrong*". 

Those are definitions of the word mistake. If a wayward spouse is using the word mistake to minimize their betrayal, yes, please go ahead and be pissed about that and do not accept it! But not every use of that word is minimizing their behavior. If a wayward spouse says "during my affair _my actions were horribly wrong and my thinking was defective",_ would you be offended by that statement? 

I wouldn't be offended. I would want to hear more than. It's incomplete, but it isn't inaccurate. By defintion, that cheating spouse would be saying "I made a horrible mistake". I know the community of betrayed spouses hates the word. But narrowing the defintion of mistake to only an accident is deliberately ignoring a core part of the defintion of the word. I don't care if you continue to hate the word mistake and I don't generally use the word on these forums because I know people dont like it. We all have our triggers. However, just because someone uses the word does not mean they are deliberately minimizing their actions, although in some cases that will be exactly what they are doing. How a wayward uses the word, the context and their accompanying words and actions matter. If the word triggers you, ask them not to use it. But you cant always legitimately interpet that it is minimizing or rationalizing their behavior.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Trdd said:


> _Tldr version: I understand the word mistake is a trigger for many betrayed; at the same time the definition of the word is far more expansive than just an accident and includes "wrong actions and defective judgement" which are accurate but incomplete ways to begin to describe infidelity. Not all people who use the word mistake are intentionally trying to minimize their actions, although some are._
> 
> First, I have read explanations similar to yours for years, literally. It is not new to the infidelity space nor to me; it's on every infidelity board and I do not disagree with it in principle. You dont have to convince me of the idea nor the severity of the betrayal of infidelity. I have never and would never try to minimize infidelity nor relate it to a simple accident.
> 
> ...


Like Microsoft documentation of old, technically correct, but utterly useless.

The psychology behind the language is more important than the defined meaning. When minimizing everyone would say "I made a mistake", when owning defective, immoral choices people are more prone to self flagellation with phrases like "I F'd up badly" or "I'm such a F'up" or simply "I'm so, so sorry".


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

[QUOTE="Alexandru, post: 20609171]She seems to me so selfcentered that wants things to go only the way she imagins they should go, who ain't ready to lose anything that makes her feel complete, nothing. She is so deluded it seems she thinks, she can repair it in her own way. Even if I told her it ain't helping. Yet it's fully acceptable for her to go to a weeding or to other occasions where this guy also goes and put me trough ****ing hell.[/QUOTE]

The reason she thinks this way is because you continue to show her she can.

Your words are strong, but your actions are the opposite. 

Until she sees you talk less and do more, nothing will change. 



Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

A lot less talk and a lot more action.😉


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## Trdd (Jan 11, 2022)

Dictum Veritas said:


> Like Microsoft documentation of old, technically correct, but utterly useless.
> 
> The psychology behind the language is more important than the defined meaning. When minimizing everyone would say "I made a mistake", when owning defective, immoral choices people are more prone to self flagellation with phrases like "I F'd up badly" or "I'm such a F'up" or simply "I'm so, so sorry".


 You are dug in and I appreciate it is a trigger for you. You wrote "I f'd up badly" is better but that's no different than saying I made a horrible mistake, lol, which is the expression I referenced above. I disagree that saying something was a (horrible) mistake is _always_ a sign of minimizing; sometimes it is the beginning of accountability. And I think we can agree that accoh tability is something a wayward needs to take. Many times they need to take intermediate steps before they can come to the realization that they betrayed their partner deeply.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Trdd said:


> Au contraire,, admitting a choice was a mistake means admitting you were wrong. Simply by definition, as the other poster proved very directly.


But to do that means you did not have the facts and the errant choice was not your fault.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Trdd said:


> _Tldr version: I understand the word mistake is a trigger for many betrayed; at the same time the definition of the word is far more expansive than just an accident and includes "wrong actions and defective judgement" which are accurate but incomplete ways to begin to describe infidelity. Not all people who use the word mistake are intentionally trying to minimize their actions, although some are._
> 
> First, I have read explanations similar to yours for years, literally. It is not new to the infidelity space nor to me; it's on every infidelity board and I do not disagree with it in principle. You dont have to convince me of the idea nor the severity of the betrayal of infidelity. I have never and would never try to minimize infidelity nor relate it to a simple accident.
> 
> ...


Your from SI, has to be.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

I went back and read the original post, trying to get a feel for whether the poster is the type of person who can swallow this **** sandwich, as some do, and live happily thereafter. Obviously, I know little about him personally . Seems betrayed folks span a continuum, with some able to remain with their abuser and be happy and others at the opposite end of the continuum. Interestingly, from talking to many other betrayed people, many of those for whom this is an absolute dealbreaker are, in general, very forgiving in other areas when someone harms them. But, there is something special about this particular offense, cheating, that they simply can never get past. I am like this, forgiving to a fault in most areas.

Perhaps it has to do with the loss of trust, but that can be present in other offenses, as well.

In any case, my take on the OP is that this betrayal will eat at him forever if he stays. Just my impression from his tone and his attitude ( both very valid.). 
You are young enough to start over. Alternatively, I have found peace just being on my own.
My kids have done fine. I wish this had never happened as it did affect them. But, you and I did not cause this.
I really believe you will, eventually, come to the conclusion that this is a dealbreaker.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> A lot less talk and a lot more action.😉


Elvis instantly came to mind...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Jeffsmith35 said:


> Elvis instantly came to mind...


Oh yeah!😎


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

ABHale said:


> How is this advice for helping the OP?
> 
> She made a choice to cheat, simple to understand really. She doesn’t think it was a wrong decision.
> 
> So why are you arguing about the definition of a word?


It does potentially help the Original Poster (OP). If he decides for whatever reason (maybe because of some breakthrough at marriage counseling) not to divorce her, he and his wife will need to find ways to build trust and move forward.

What I find surprising is that she has cried and expressed remorse and the fear of him leaving. Yes, she may regret that she has been "caught" but she also is either quite the dramatic actor or she does have some remorse. She may not be up to the level of admitting and taking full responsibility for her actions, but that is not far off in the furture. If the Marriage Counselor can work with the wife and turn that remorse into a realization of how horrible she behaved, then maybe there is a chance to save the marriage. If that doesn't happen. she will find herself reading divorce papers and wondering what went wrong. At some point in the future he kids will tell her that she destroyed their family and she will learn and have to live with for the rest of her life the full consequences of her wrong cheating ways.

Personally, based on the OP's feeling not much commitment and the W's gaslighting, I don't see much hope to save the marriage. The one things that tugs in the other direction is her giving the OP all access to her electronic communications, which were her primary means of communicating with the other man.

So, Yes, it does have something to do with the OP, if he at some point decides not to divorce her.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She still works with the OM. Not the primary means of communication.
And they make burner phones.
This one in my opinion is a clownfish that’s better to be released back into the sea so she can do her thing with other clownfish.


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## olk (Aug 17, 2021)

Cheaters cheat on us because they think (or know) that we are weaklings or idiots.
Why are you acting like a doormat? Why didn't you give an ultimatum from the very beginning: "Him or me". It is your wife's duty to fulfill her obligations to her husband. If she doesn't do that, she's not worthy to be your wife. Why didn't you demand that she quit her job? Why does she have the audacity to constantly put you in an awkward position because of her "friend" and continue contacts with him. This is unacceptable! If I were you, I would first prepare a file for divorce, and then show her the file and give her an ultimatum. Now everything seems like a joke to her ...


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## georgel316000 (Nov 3, 2021)

If your wife thinks what she did isn't bad, then tell her you'll do exactly the same thing with a girl, text all hours of the day and night, go clubbing and dance with her, put a few dollars down her boobs.

Please give us an update. I hope you are ok. Haven't heard from you in a while.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Alexandru said:


> Hi good people. I post here for the 1st time with the hope to shed some light over my problem and to make sure i.m not insane. Please forgive my english if there are too many mistakes. Not a native speaker
> I also apologise for the wall of text, but i feel like a have to get on the details in order to make me understood.
> Now to the matter at hand:
> 
> ...


Sorry my friend it appears you have a wayward wife.
You only know that what you have discovered so far, these cheating women are masters at the game of deception, deceit, lies and bluff.
I guarantee a lot more has happened that you don`t know about and now your wife knows you`re on to her, she`ll cover up her activities even more.
Warn her that if her associations with this guy do not cease and desist that you will visit her place of work, show the evidence that you have and report it to the management.
Next, insist she leave her job.
If she still continues to deny, deny and deny, gaslighting you and makes more excuses, than you have to decide your way forward.
Regardless, you cannot let this matter continue on like this, you need to take some kind of action.


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## Honey Badger (28 d ago)

Alexandru said:


> Hi good people. I post here for the 1st time with the hope to shed some light over my problem and to make sure i.m not insane. Please forgive my english if there are too many mistakes. Not a native speaker
> I also apologise for the wall of text, but i feel like a have to get on the details in order to make me understood.
> Now to the matter at hand:
> 
> ...


She doesn’t respect you because you don’t respect yourself. She knows that you will not give her any consequences or accountability for her actions and that is why she is acting like nothing has happened and asked to go to a wedding where he was going to be present. If your wife really respected you, as soon as she found out that this other guy was going to be at the wedding, she would’ve said I’m not going to the wedding because he’s going to be there. But she doesn’t care, she thinks that everything should be OK because you caught her and she said that she was sorry. She didn’t come and tell you that she was having an emotional affair with this other guy. Because he’s going to be there. But she doesn’t care, she thinks that everything should be OK because you caught her and she said that she was sorry. She didn’t come and tell you that she was having an emotional affair with this other guy, you caught her in the emotional affair with this other guy . So there’s no reason to trust her but yet she is begging for your trust to be around this other guy again. You need to just understand that your wife is a monster. From my woman’s perspective, she is just waiting for you to let your guard down and to think that everything is OK and that she will continue with this guy again .


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## Honey Badger (28 d ago)

Jimi007 said:


> I totally agree...Yet he said she pursued him.. He's just reacting to what she put out there


But he knew that she was married. And yes, she entertained all of his advances, and I totally agree with you on that one. But at the end of the day, she understood what she was doing, and he needs to just be aware that she just showed him exactly who she is and because she showed her husband exactly what she is willing to do behind his back, he needs to believe her and thinking that she will do it again. There’s no way this was a one off. From my woman’s perspective, he should absolutely divorce her because she’s only gonna wake her time until she can get with that guy again.


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