# STBXWs manipulations



## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

spoke with my youngest son yesterday and in the midst of the conversation he said "it was very hard on Mom over Xmas - you did not have to talk divorce." Cripes - she is living with some other dude and she got my boys to feel sorry for HER!! Then he says to me that at some point we will have to reconcile? And when I said there will be no reconciliation he said I would need to for my own good...when I said well I do not need to reconcile, I have moved on...he asked "to other women?"...then I said it was over and I really have no desire to ever see her again, he said "well you have kids together, you will have to talk.." I said - you are both young adults now, I have my relationship with you both and she has hers..."

I just see her behind all this - I mean what is she telling him? I ge so upset she uses him as a pawn - for getting her message across - the damage it does to him...oh and one more...he blamed me for her forwarding the email on to him because any emails between me and her concern him?? I said I disagreed - that I had nasty emails from her that do not concern them - it is between her and I.

It is really messed up - did any other members deal with such manipulations with their children and how they handled it?


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

I would be honest with your sons without bagging out their mother.

So when he said "you did not have to talk divorce over christmas" You could have said "Your mother made the choice to live with another man, she should not be concerning you with this, it's between her and I"

Also maybe sit them down and tell them that, you know she is their mum and they love her, that you won't say bad things about their mother, you will be honest though when asked. And that you are their dad and you love them. That your ex wife should leave them out of it, and that you need to move on with your life.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Many people try to spare children the ugly facts of infidelity. I didn't find out the truth about my father and understood the damage his actions caused until I was in my 40's and both my parents were gone. I went through life forging relationships and distancing my self from people based on lies and omissions. Only you can decide how much truth your kids can handle, but at some point, you have to give them the whole ugly truth. The lies, the defiance, the sex, no matter how bad, no matter how filthy, at some point the deserve the whole uncensored truth. Don't let them go through life on lies and omissions.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> So when he said "you did not have to talk divorce over christmas" You could have said "Your mother made the choice to live with another man, she should not be concerning you with this, it's between her and I"
> 
> And that you are their dad and you love them. That your ex wife should leave them out of it, and that you need to move on with your life.


Thanks Littledeer - I tried this and my son kept saying it concerns him because we are a family - which I keep telling him we are not anymore since his mother made the choice to live with someone else....

Also told him that ex should keep them out of it...he disagreed. We agree to disagree on that one. All of a sudden, she/he wants complete openness (without her being open).


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> Many people try to spare children the ugly facts of infidelity. I didn't find out the truth about my father and understood the damage his actions caused until I was in my 40's and both my parents were gone. I went through life forging relationships and distancing my self from people based on lies and omissions. Only you can decide how much truth your kids can handle, but at some point, you have to give them the whole ugly truth. The lies, the defiance, the sex, no matter how bad, no matter how filthy, at some point the deserve the whole uncensored truth. Don't let them go through life on lies and omissions.


I agree Middleman - we will eventually get there as the truth is starting to seep out bit by bit....the big truth seeped out when she lied about being involved with someone and then moved in with him soon after we split.....the truth always wins out in the end..


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

I think the best thing for you to do now would be to take a day off, spend it with your sons, have some fun and at the end of it sit down and reveal the truth. 

You say they are young adults, I'm quite certain that revealing some specifics like a few emails which are not totally risque but are not totally innocent won't do them much harm. 

The longer you keep postponing this the more confused the children are going to be. The more confused they are, the more control their manipulative mother has over them. So get the truth out in the open.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

bigtone128 said:


> And when I said there will be no reconciliation he said I would need to for my own good...when I said well I do not need to reconcile, I have moved on...he asked "to other women?"


This made me stop. How much your sons know? This passage could be a part of narrative where *you* are the bad guy.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> I think the best thing for you to do now would be to take a day off, spend it with your sons, have some fun and at the end of it sit down and reveal the truth.
> 
> You say they are young adults, I'm quite certain that revealing some specifics like a few emails which are not totally risque but are not totally innocent won't do them much harm.
> 
> The longer you keep postponing this the more confused the children are going to be. The more confused they are, the more control their manipulative mother has over them. So get the truth out in the open.


Thanks Bjorn...I cannot take a day off because both boys are off in university - I will wait until I feel they are secure enough to see the emails...yea, perhaps my boys are confused - I never thought of that....yes perhaps i will discuss it with them..


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

snap said:


> This made me stop. How much your sons know? This passage could be a part of narrative where *you* are the bad guy.


true enough Snap - I never thought of that.....cripes this stuff just keeps getting worse and worse - i feel i cant win with this monster...


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> spoke with my youngest son yesterday and in the midst of the conversation he said "it was very hard on Mom over Xmas - you did not have to talk divorce." Cripes - she is living with some other dude and she got my boys to feel sorry for HER!! Then he says to me that at some point we will have to reconcile? And when I said there will be no reconciliation he said I would need to for my own good...when I said well I do not need to reconcile, I have moved on...he asked "to other women?"...then I said it was over and I really have no desire to ever see her again, he said "well you have kids together, you will have to talk.." I said - you are both young adults now, I have my relationship with you both and she has hers..."
> 
> I just see her behind all this - I mean what is she telling him? I ge so upset she uses him as a pawn - for getting her message across - the damage it does to him...oh and one more...he blamed me for her forwarding the email on to him because any emails between me and her concern him?? I said I disagreed - that I had nasty emails from her that do not concern them - it is between her and I.
> 
> It is really messed up - did any other members deal with such manipulations with their children and how they handled it?


Wow so is she is living with someone else and the kids seem to make you out as the bad guy. Your stbx is really good its a shame he can not see what she is doing. Good luck.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

BURNT KEP said:


> Wow so is she is living with someone else and the kids seem to make you out as the bad guy. Your stbx is really good its a shame he can not see what she is doing. Good luck.


Funny how you say she is so good - I have a friend who keeps telling me what a player she is- I never thought her as one but am beginning to see - he will see eventually - I have faith in my boys - truth always wins out in the end...I think bc no one would like to think of their mother as a cheater - they try to give her the benefit of the doubt----thanks for your support.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> spoke with my youngest son yesterday and in the midst of the conversation he said "it was very hard on Mom over Xmas - you did not have to talk divorce." Cripes - she is living with some other dude and she got my boys to feel sorry for HER!! Then he says to me that at some point we will have to reconcile? And when I said there will be no reconciliation he said I would need to for my own good...when I said well I do not need to reconcile, I have moved on...he asked "to other women?"...then I said it was over and I really have no desire to ever see her again, he said "well you have kids together, you will have to talk.." I said - you are both young adults now, I have my relationship with you both and she has hers..."
> 
> I just see her behind all this - I mean what is she telling him? I ge so upset she uses him as a pawn - for getting her message across - the damage it does to him...oh and one more...he blamed me for her forwarding the email on to him because any emails between me and her concern him?? I said I disagreed - that I had nasty emails from her that do not concern them - it is between her and I.
> 
> It is really messed up - did any other members deal with such manipulations with their children and how they handled it?



WS will try to portray themselves to their own children as the "victim". My stbxw does this all the time. If your kids are old enough to know what is going on, you can simply tell them the truth. i.e. Their mother has moved out and is living with another man and for everybody's sake, including the kids, divorce is the best option. You kids have to know that you do not agree with your wife's choices and that reconciliation is NOT an option. You do not need to get into the down and dirty details, but they are old enough to know that is was your wife who chose this path.

This was your WIFE'S choice - if she didn't want divorce then she should not have made those choices. 

Do no allow her to manipulate herself into a position as "victim".


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Wait, your kids are both in college? To me that's old enough to know the truth of what's going on. I thought you were talking little kids or something.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Okay seriously wtf, if my mother cheated on my father and started living with another man, I would be beating the other man half to death and stop all contact with my mother. Doesn't matter if I am a teenager or an old timer. And I doubt that any boy wouldn't do some variation of this, if he knew the truth.

So yeah, you are saying they are young adults. Do they know about the cheating? If they don't, then why not?

Don't let her make the bad guy in this, mate, what the hell do you think it means to expose expose expose?


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> WS will try to portray themselves to their own children as the "victim". My stbxw does this all the time. If your kids are old enough to know what is going on, you can simply tell them the truth. i.e. Their mother has moved out and is living with another man and for everybody's sake, including the kids, divorce is the best option. You kids have to know that you do not agree with your wife's choices and that reconciliation is NOT an option. You do not need to get into the down and dirty details, but they are old enough to know that is was your wife who chose this path.
> 
> This was your WIFE'S choice - if she didn't want divorce then she should not have made those choices.
> 
> Do no allow her to manipulate herself into a position as "victim".


Very true Cedar - she is alllowing herself to be portrayed as a victim - Jeez she didnt act like one the day she moved out or since - now all of a sudden when the consequences come - she's a victim?? Good points Cedar...


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Jasel said:


> Wait, your kids are both in college? To me that's old enough to know the truth of what's going on. I thought you were talking little kids or something.
> 
> My mom was letting me know what the deal was when I was 17. She didn't demonize him, she just told me what he'd been doing all these years (cheating, prostitutes, etc) and I was extremely grateful that she did. It didn't make me love my Dad any less but I realized he was a piss poor husband and tried to convince my mom to leave him for her own sake if anything. I sure as hell didn't think they should remain married (they still are btw -_-).
> 
> Now I'm not saying you have to tell them all your marital business but if she's filling their head with garbage and they're already adults there's nothing wrong with setting things straight.


Jasel - this is true and I have - but she keeps filling their heads about how unhappy she was and drudging up my past deeds in the marriage that they feel sorry for her...it is harder than one thinks - one thing i can say about cheaters - they are diligent...too bad they werent that diligent in the marriage


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Okay seriously wtf, if my mother cheated on my father and started living with another man, I would be beating the other man half to death and stop all contact with my mother. Doesn't matter if I am a teenager or an old timer. And I doubt that any boy wouldn't do some variation of this, if he knew the truth.
> 
> So yeah, you are saying they are young adults. Do they know about the cheating? If they don't, then why not?
> 
> Don't let her make the bad guy in this, mate, what the hell do you think it means to expose expose expose?


Okay - they know about the cheating but whenever i get to what she did and is doing they always say - they do not want to hear about it...i guess they do not want to think about their mother doing these things.....so I am handcuffed somewhat..


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

bigtone128 said:


> Jasel - this is true and I have - but she keeps filling their heads about how unhappy she was and drudging up my past deeds in the marriage that they feel sorry for her...it is harder than one thinks - *one thing i can say about cheaters - they are diligent...too bad they werent that diligent in the marriage*


Ugh I know exactly what you mean.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Your kids need to understand that your stbxw is an adult who made conscious decisions. She is NOT a victim. She made her bed and is sleeping in it, so to speak.

Don't cross the line and be angry and bad mouth her. Just stay calm, explain the TRUTH, and remind the boys that this is between YOU and your stbxw. She shouldn't involve them in the process.

It is a shame that your stbxw is NOT keeping the best interests of her own sons in mind when she plays manipulative mind games on them. 

Let your sons know that YOU are always there for them and that YOU will never lie to them about the situation.


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## NewM (Apr 11, 2012)

They aren't too young if they are in university,they aren't 8 years old to hide the truth from them.The more you hide the more guilty you look.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

NewM said:


> They aren't too young if they are in university,they aren't 8 years old to hide the truth from them.The more you hide the more guilty you look.


Good grief they are adults just tell them although they should have figured it out by now themselves.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> Okay - they know about the cheating but whenever i get to what she did and is doing they always say - they do not want to hear about it...i guess they do not want to think about their mother doing these things.....so I am handcuffed somewhat..


This is hard, but at some point they are going to have to face what their mother did. If for no other reason than to learn from it .... so they can make sure that what happened to you doesn't happen to them. I hate to say it, but you should consider forcing the issue because they are adults. I would show them any evidence you have (if you have it) like texts & e-mails. You are trying to be nice, do the right thing and not make your kids uncomfortable, meanwhile she is "Elphaba".


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

I feel for you Big, my ex played similar games but with younger children. My two kids are 15 and 12 now so you get the idea. It was HARD because my kids weren't old enough for a serious hard conversation. Your kids are.

You need to sit down with them and lay everything out. This is a GREAT opportunity to teach them what a marriage SHOULD be. How, yes there were issues from both sides during the marriage, you weren't a perfect husband and she wasn't a perfect wife BUT what a good marriage will do is work through it. Your wife chose to run off with another guy, move out etc. It was at that moment SHE decided to end the marriage. When the person you're with moves out and takes up with someone else, what message is that? It's over. I REFUSE to be a loser and keep running back to her. Also tell them how you find it repulsive that she's using them. She's manipulating them. You feel for their pain, you NEVER wanted this, but YOU didn't move out. She did. She caused this fracture in the family. You're just finalizing her actions.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Your wife chose to run off with another guy, move out etc. It was at that moment SHE decided to end the marriage. When the person you're with moves out and takes up with someone else, what message is that? . Also tell them how you find it repulsive that she's using them. She's manipulating them. You feel for their pain, you NEVER wanted this, but YOU didn't move out. She did. She caused this fracture in the family. You're just finalizing her actions.


I agree with everything you said D&H - I try to convey to them that she is using them but they do not believe me.....they then turn it around and say I am trying to manipulate them...so I let it go rather than argue with them....I just hope they will see in the long run.


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## dymo (Jan 2, 2012)

I wouldn't waste any more time trying to argue with your son. He seems pretty set in his opinion for now. I'm sure he'll come around, but not soon.

Next time, tell him something like this. "I'm not discussing this again. She cheated, she left, and she's still with OM. None of that has changed, and I am done." Then leave it at that.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> I agree with everything you said D&H - I try to convey to them that she is using them but they do not believe me.....they then turn it around and say I am trying to manipulate them...so I let it go rather than argue with them....I just hope they will see in the long run.



Don't try to convince your kids about anything. Don't get into a position where they defend your stbxw. So don't tell them they are being manipulated - let them figure that out for themselves - they will.

Simply state the facts. Your stbxw had an affair. She is living with the OM. It was HER decision to leave. You are divorcing her and it's in the best interests of everyone to get this done as soon as possible.

Edit: And start doing some reading on "Parental Alienation". Your kids are older, but can still be vulnerable to a manipulative parent. Alienating your kids against the other spouse is a horrible betrayal. Now that I think about it, it ranks right up there with the actual cheating. Maybe it's even worse.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

bigtone128 said:


> I agree with everything you said D&H - I try to convey to them that she is using them but they do not believe me.....they then turn it around and say I am trying to manipulate them...so I let it go rather than argue with them....I just hope they will see in the long run.


If that's the case then when they bring it up I'd simply refuse to talk about it. If they're going to pick and choose what they want to hear and what they don't want to hear, what they're going to believe and what they're not going to believe, they have no business telling you what you should and shouldn't be doing in regards to your marriage.

I'd just tell them any discussion regarding your marriage, divorce or reconcilliation is off limits and if they don't seem to get that message then just don't respond to anything they have to say on the subjects.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> I agree with everything you said D&H - I try to convey to them that she is using them but they do not believe me.....they then turn it around and say I am trying to manipulate them...so I let it go rather than argue with them....I just hope they will see in the long run.


ANd you should also stress to your boys that you are telling them the truth so they can use your marriage and divorce caused by their mothers hurtful actions as an example how to treat someone that intentionally hurt them.

You can tell them you have always been honest with their mother and them. You expected the same in return.

You did not get it hence the Divorce.

Make them understand that you are raising them to be no ones fool.

What a shame she moved so far away.

You could have forced a "family" meeting for the boys benefit.

You could probably straighten out these misperceptions in 5 minutes.

Even quicker when she pulls a no show.

Such as life BT.

HM64

And she is not very nice playing with the boys head this way. It is none of their business.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

dymo said:


> I wouldn't waste any more time trying to argue with your son. He seems pretty set in his opinion for now. I'm sure he'll come around, but not soon.
> 
> Next time, tell him something like this. "I'm not discussing this again. She cheated, she left, and she's still with OM. None of that has changed, and I am done." Then leave it at that.


I'd add that dealing with this is not something new, she's been doing it for years, she claimed remorse and the wish to fix the broken trust only to start it again and leave for OM as a final act which she knew would burn any bridge.
Talk to him in the context on how to behave in relationships, man to man talk. Tell him in the future you hope he behaves with self respect because nodody will do it if you don't, that he has to be aware of what's acceptable and what's not and enforce his personal boundaries to live life with dignity. Tell people tends to play victim when they have to justify themselves, that it's way better watch the actions with a cold head and the present situation has no way back.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

bigtone128 said:


> Jasel - this is true and I have - but she keeps filling their heads about how unhappy she was and drudging up my past deeds in the marriage that they feel sorry for her...it is harder than one thinks - one thing i can say about cheaters - they are diligent...too bad they werent that diligent in the marriage


What if you flipped it around? The next time they raise it, note that their mom is with the OM and is not interested in reconciling. She is getting what she wants and moving on, and you are moving on as well.

I am not saying take any blame or even leaving open the possibility of reconcilation, only pointing out her current actions to them.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Everytime it comes up say this.

I didn't end the marriage. Your mother chose to end it. I didnt cheat. Your mother chose that. I didn't move in with another person and sleep in their bed. Your mother chose that.

All I chose was to not accept being lied to, cheated on, and humiliated.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> What a shame she moved so far away.
> 
> 
> Such as life BT.
> ...


she didnt move - i did and the boys are off at university.

and no she is playing nice but i have given up on that a long time ago.


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