# Wife's EA turned PA. Any hope?



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Hello, unfortunately I'm now a new member to the board. I must say all of you people's sharing here has been very helpful to getting me through the past 96 hours... so thanks to all.

Just discovered the classic EA-turned-somewhat-PA by my wife of 10 years: she spent inordinate amounts of time with very good married guy friend (who is available most weekdays due to his type of 'job'), part of a couple we know, have been to one another's homes, kids in common, etc. classic... wife got very emotionally dependent, then to flirting, heavy flirting, then turned to kissing at times, slightly more physical once, but apparently no 'sex' (not that it matters), as "she just couldn't" (ha) when he pushed for more she supposedly backed away, in an off-and-on roller coaster that criss-crossed between 'friendship' and much more than friendship. Lots of sexting, phone sex (twice) during the intense periods. He is very emotionally needy (I know this personally), and it all started with her 'helping'/listening/fixing him... you get the picture. He played her; she ultimately was the very willing participant. She initiated the first kiss. 

Importantly, I am previously married, and the SAME exact thing happened with my first wife... I 'forgave' her, tried working it out, and *wham* 18 months later she left me for another guy. I met wife #2 while in divorce process. She was engaged at the time, I didn't know, she broke it off as I learned of it... I was officially divorced about a year when we got married 10 years ago.

So in this marriage, at the outset, I told wife #2: "Cheat on me and it is immediately over. With all my being, I mean it." It was crystal clear, no debate about that.

Now, I've caught her in this. Everyone says the same thing of course, but I just really couldn't have imagined her going through and continuing something like this. We often got all high & mighty about how anyone could do such a thing... (*gag*) She immediately admitted when confronted, and what I believe(?) to be *full* details have been emerging as we talked it out. She's begged and begged to work it out. 

Talking it out & reading through 3 or 4 "Suriving the Affair" type books + this forum non-stop for the past 4 days, the 'realization' for her -- through included discussion with her best (female) friend she's known since childhood -- is that she's got a real psychological issue with needing 'positive attention', and the excitement thrill. We've also come to realize (a) how compartmentalized she kept her marriage (I would say it was 'happy', truly), and (b) how she lies without realizing she's lying. Initially, when caught, I of course asked 'how many times this 'kissing'... at least three, I believed... "oh no, not any more than that"... tracing facts I can piece together, we've gotten to about 10 or 11 times. *sigh*... granted it was 2 years ago, but she's got a lousy memory needing to be prompted through to get it all extracted. I think we've done so; I have a pretty good picture (I believe).

I work ~65-80 hours a week, and am often on the road 4+ days/week for months at a time. It is the one and only thing we ever argue about, and the one thing I can take responsibility and accountability for -- although of course the angry me states I was making a living for our family; she's a stay-at-home mom (but a pretty nice lifestyle, I will say). Of course, now I wish I'd quit my job and moved to a tiny apartment and understood the depth of that issue. However, I *am* attentive, loving, caring, and outwardly cognizant about the issue when I am in a deep work cycle.

This started less than a year after moving to a new state/town, and she admittedly had trouble making friends that she 'connected' with at first. She was easy prey; he was there... kaboom.

Two other relevant facts: 
One, for the first 8 years, wife was a bit overweight. As the affair started, she proceeded to lose about 40 lbs. never looked better in her life than she does today... funny how I "endured" the heavy girl, now she's fit & trim and she will be out there for someone else. 
Two, let's just say our sex life was pretty meidocre most of the time. Highly willing participants - especially as she lost weight, her sexuality improved greatly, but not great performance (my fault). To this day, even now with everything 'out', she insists that sex was not the driver; it was not about getting sex elsewhere... it was the excitement, the adrenaline rush, being paid attention to in the teenage-like mode that infatuation holds. I pretty much believe this.

She swears its over, it had already been over for a few months now. She swears she regrets it, last 4 days of crying and sobbing, and while I believe her (crazy me?), I've told her we must make plans for separation and divorce, plain & simple. We've talked endlessly about how it was this 'separate thing' from her real life, and how while my work life left her too alone, she actually was 'content' in the marriage. 

Inside I am a raging lunatic, and in heated yelling fits, have nearly lost it physically - both with her, and more realistically to tracking down the OM for physical, public harm. From what I read, doing the whole classic reaction process. I'm 'proud' of myself for doing nothing while in such a highly emotional state, but it's a minute-by-minute struggle. I am devastated, which takes the form of anger.

She's begged us to do MC and her IC. I've begrudgingly agreed, where I don't see the point of making a pretend effort when I can never envision the streaming video that replays in my mind continuously night & day ever going away while I am in her presence -- if ever at all.

I *CAN* say I love her and always will. But of course, I hate her for what she has done. I despise what she's done to me the most, but cannot stomach what she's now taken away from my son... he is highly fixed onto "the three of us", in his drawings, writing, and stories. It's almost criminal to read ("What makes you most happy?" when me, mom, and dad are all together... "Which city/house would you rather live in?" anyplace we can all be together...etc.) Truly sweet, sweet stuff that is now heartbreaking. I am beside myself every day i hear one of these phrases. Going through the "normal life" motions the past 4 days -- bedtime, playtime, eating, talking with him (mother's day was a joy)-- we both often need to walk away and sob in another room. You all know the pain; it's intense.

So my questions for you all include:

1) Does 'reconciliation' really exist? Really? I can't imagine ever being in 'acceptance' mode... I've agreed to do MC. Really, your opinions -- is there hope here?

2) How does a man not go beat the living hell out of OM? In so many deep angles here, this is real. I need to mano-a-mano to him, let him know I will not be wronged like this and go away. I need to relieve the rage. I need to be able to know down the road that he didn't "get away with it"... I know where he lives, I know his wife, I know his children. The OM is a work-at-hime guy, so he is 'around town' all day long. Any action leaves my home and family open to retribution... but I still cannot let it go. On top of that, he's a little bit unstable, imho... to the point she confided in her best friend that if she turned up dead, this was the guy she should have investigated. 

3) I know the OM's wife. I have written an email to send to them both, disclosing the affair and that I know and proclaiming he is never to make any contact ever again. I have hesitated before sending this, making sure I don't do something that will end up costing me. But I want to do so; I *must* do something about this.

4) I've agreed to do MC, mostly to work in the interest of my son. Can it ever work staying together *just* for the young child, but live as roommates? Or is that thinking just because I know the financial devastation, the logistical nightmares of splitting the household?

5) Also re: MC, I'm wary because I am of course looking for something that doesn't exist -- an 'erase the memory' button. I understand working through a process, but I do not believe I could give this years of working on what she and I both perceive to be mostly *her* neediness issues. I'm looking for a 'switch' to go off, some big breakthrough, where I can then make a final decision that "she's changed and is worth sticking with"... but I really cannot envision that. So have I already sabotaged MC?

6) I'm having a hard time with the fact that she knew -- she KNEW -- my 'rule', given my prior divorce experience, and did it anyway. There's plenty of material about 'doesn't it make you weak to take her back after such a thing. Oddly, because she *knows* I loved her enormouysly, I could see that in the first 24 hours after DDay, she really, really believed deep down that I'd get to a point that I was willing to forgive and work it out. We quickly have gotten her to understand the baseline is 99% "I am leaving" (not "there's an option that I am staying")... I saw this perspective in her, and frankly I resent it, feeding the rage inside even more... This is a real stuggle for me. For those who have forgiven and moved on, HOW does one reconcile the weakness and not feel like you are doing exactly the behavior that led her astray in the first place? 

I'd love to hear from the community on any or all of these - thanks.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Send the email to the OM's wife offer that she can call you and your wife will provide answers to her questions. 

Reconciliation does happen and often leads to a happy marriage only if the guilty guilty party is truly remorseful admits the whole truth and actively at all times works on the marriage, the question is can you forgive and stay with her. IC / MC is a waste of time unless both of you are committed to a future together.

An option is you start the divorce process but do not actively chase it , she then has time to evidence her trust and willingness to save the marriage. It gives you time to settle your thoughts and show her you are following your own principles , you have untill the last day to stop the divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Really appreciate your perspective, thanks. A lot.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

When I first read your post, I thought that it was another case of you forgiving her quickly and her taking full advantage and doing it again. But I must say, you are handling it well, and acting very level-headed and mature, well played, sir!

No, do not go after the OM, because it sounds like the weasel will call the police, and you will have bigger problems, don't even send him a threatening message-if he steps in front of a drunk driver who hit and runs, YOU are the 1st person they come looking for.

But yes, take it (plans for D) to the brink, and see how hard she fights for this-it is entirely possible for you to save the M.

But, I must also admit, I probably would go ahead and D, anyway, knowing her past and how you met, it sounds like you really stumbled into the baggage car!


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

How do you "know" this affair never went beyond kissing?
It can`t possibly be because that`s what your wife told you.

Send the e-mail to the OM`s wife. He doesn`t get off scott free.
This is your retribution AND an ethical thing to do concerning his wife.

Reconciliation is possible but difficult and it takes a damn long time to get back "close" to where you were as a couple.You will never be the same but you can get to a place that`s possibly acceptable.

Have divorce papers drawn up, have her served.
This will let her know you`re not ****ing around.

Her actions during this divorce process will let you know whether you will take that 1% chance at reconciliation.

Those actions during this possible reconciliation will be "total transparency".You own her, you have access to everything.
Her e-mail, cell phone, current location, who she`s with when she`s with them.
This transparency should go on for as long as you need it to re-establish trust in her be that months or years.
If she balks at any of your demands for transparency no matter how extreme divorce her..be done with it.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

There can never be any reconciliation unless you get the truth that you seek. I told my wife everything that she asked for except for the nitty gritty details.

You certainly don't need to find out a couple of years down the road that is was a PA, that will all but destroy all you both worked for up to that point. If it'll ease your mind and maybe make you work towards R then demand she take a polygraph test.

If she says yes then your mind should be put at ease (but still make her take it, even if she says yes) hopefully. If she comes right out and says not gonna happen until hell freezes over then you got your answer, she's still hiding things from you.


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## Tourchwood (Feb 1, 2011)

I guarantee you it went all the way physical, if she done all kissing and phone thing and half way physical as you said then it went full physical more than once. 
you must tell OM wife as soon as possible, and leave that woman you call your wife. 
she knows how you feel about cheating, and knows you would be hurting again , she has complete understanding of the situation and still went a head and cheated. 
you better off divorcing, how can you trust her again since you are always on the road and working hard?


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Do not make any decisions until you have had a chance to get past the shock. Yes she knew your rules, we all had them and it didn't matter. Telling her bunch of times if you do we D doesn't make it any different other your feelings you have to carry through with D because you said so. R can work, it is for me and I have to say things are better than they were for years before. One guy for you. Three and 20 years for me and my youngest might not be mine biologically. Iff you love her, give it time. Don't make up nay more films in your head. If you have questions, ask them. Tell ehr it has to be 100% honesty. Give it time. Don't buy all this kick it to the curb crap. It can work if you try.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Wow, all input appreciated here -- thank you.
I do not claim to *know* this didn't go full sex. I'll never know. I will say once cojfronted, she revealed intricate details of texting, and was almost disappointed when she found out I didn't have all her prior texts printed out waiting to validate her story...

First MC session today to me was way less helpful than 4 days & nights of talking & reading and talking more -- but I suppose Day 1 MC is more interview/fact collection than anything. We scheduled a double-session for Wed; this will be telling to me on my hopes for that process.
Funny thin, I read something here regarding polygraphs and told her I was having her take one; she didn't blink an eye and agreed to do so. I think I may line one up. Wonder what they cost...

She does continue to beg forgiveness, working at it, and staying together... I just don't know. 

Seems unanimous on sending email to the OM's wife. How *does* a man control the rage... seriously?

Follow-up question: Anyone with experience leaving a job for a significantly lower salary in an effort to try & make it work (this seems to be the one thing I can do) -- is this a good, bad, or indifferent idea? I envision doing this, it not working out, and me hating her even worse for now trying to make 2 households work on much less money...


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

More follow-up:

@tacoma: on DDay she gave me all access to cell, FB, email. I demanded once, and she picked up the phone and called verizon to request "2 years of text history" (PS - they don't have it, they say by law they delete) She did get 3 months of records (not the physical texts, just #'s and times) -- all validated her story of when last contact was, fwiw.

@8years - thanks for the perspective.

What is the expected "pace" of MC? Seems like a slow, tedious process -- the MC will need 10 sessions to catch up on our discussions over the past 4+ days....


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Just my 0.02, but I would not make any decision yet about divorce or job changes until you have more information and are farther along in the process. 

Best of luck


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

2xloser said:


> I do not claim to *know* this didn't go full sex. I'll never know.........


Yes you will if you go through with this...




> …… I read something here regarding polygraphs and told her I was having her take one; she didn't blink an eye and agreed to do so. I think I may line one up. Wonder what they cost...


Remember no demand/request is out of line considering what she`s done.



> She does continue to beg forgiveness, working at it, and staying together...
> 
> @tacoma: on DDay she gave me all access to cell, FB, email. I demanded once, and she picked up the phone and called verizon to request "2 years of text history" (PS - they don't have it, they say by law they delete) She did get 3 months of records (not the physical texts, just #'s and times) -- all validated her story of when last contact was, fwiw.


This is excellent!
She seems truly remorseful.
Keep monitoring her communications and her whereabouts as long as you need to.
There is more than one reason for this.
First and most obvious is to be sure she`s not seeing/talking to the OM
Second is to see how firm her resolve to fix what she`s screwed up is.
She may be all compliant now but in a month or two she may change her tune as this type of monitoring/openness is difficult to accept.
The more sincere she is the less she`ll complain about the monitoring.




> Seems unanimous on sending email to the OM's wife. How *does* a man control the rage... seriously?


Informing the OM`s wife is really a key step in reconciliation.
It shows your wife you`re prepared to burn everyone to the ground if she does this again.It lets her know there will be no survivors of any affair she considers in the future.
The benefit is that the person with power over the OM is his wife.
It is highly unlikely he will even attempt to contact your wife with his watching him like a hawk.
The downside is that his wife may simply divorce him and he`ll go running to your wife.This downside even has a benefit as it will be a great test for you to see how your wife handles it.
The greatest benefit is that she may have info you do not.
She may KNOW they had sex, she may KNOW any number of things that would be very valuable to you.
Make her your ally and you not only have eyes on your wife you have eyes on the OM as well.

Take a couple of days and sit down and compose this e-mail to her slowly and rationally attaching any e-mails/texts whatever info you have on the affair and save it…DON`T SEND IT YET!!
Wait a day or so and re-read it for anything that might seem put offish to her or overtly angry and edit it out.
You want it calm, cool, collect, and rational.



> Follow-up question: Anyone with experience leaving a job for a significantly lower salary in an effort to try & make it work (this seems to be the one thing I can do) -- is this a good, bad, or indifferent idea? I envision doing this, it not working out, and me hating her even worse for now trying to make 2 households work on much less money...


This is unfortunately something you really must do as it is a motivating factor in your wifes infidelity.
It will also simply be impossible for you to be gone for long periods of time without losing your mind wondering what the hell she`s doing.
I have no advice beyond that about your job situation.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

thanks again.
I've done exactly this with the email... sitting on it till MC session #2, maybe longer depending on if I decide I'm in or out on R. It was actually quite as you explained -- factual, calm, cool. What I have most is my wife's explicit confession when I confronted -- since we all were 'friends', this all will be odd as it unfolds.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

schedule---the polygraph---go to the local police dept---they will help you with that aspect of this---you might get a change of heart the morning of the poly

Do not be so trustful of your wife---she is a cool customer---remember---YOU TOOK HER AWAY FROM A FIANCE SHE WAS GONNA MARRY----she knows how to cheat, manipulate, connive and lie

Do not give up a good paying job---try maybe to switch things---If you do end up divorced---you need to have your finances set

Your wife is gonna fight tooth and nails, for a R.---if for no other reason---that if you divorce her---she has to go out into the big bad world---as a single divorced woman with a child, with the label of a woman who cheats on her H/Fiance etc---she ain't gonna find a lot of decent guys with those credentials

She will have to work one to two jobs---and do everything you did as a married couple--she will now have to do on her own-------she ain't gonna have much time for fun, and enjoyment

As to mge. counseling---if you don't like the counselor--stop going---you didn't cheat---just send her to IC

This will take a long time---2 to 5 years---it is not easy---so be very sure---you wanna stay with this multiple cheater


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## MrQuatto (Jul 7, 2010)

Well, normally I follow the "try to work it out" scenario and will still in this instance, however...

This wife knew your very expected steadfast rule on cheating. Nothing says you cant work through this but in this particular case, you need to stick by your guns and boot her ass out. If you don't, she will walk over you for ever. 

Let her be the one to do the work to prove she is truly sorry and working to fix HER problem. Let her feel she had to really work to convince you to change your mind and give her a second chance. Also, inform the OM Wife and let her be the hand of your retribution against him. I am sure she will make him pay for this.

I know it is hard but, if you don't make good on your threat from the very start, welcome to door mat land.

Q~


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

2xloser said:


> I'm having a hard time with the fact that she knew -- she KNEW -- my 'rule', given my prior divorce experience, and did it anyway.


I'm almost in the exact same situation you are in. My current wife knew my rule because my first wife cheated on me, yet she ended up doing it anyway. Fortunately, the only difference is my wife's EA wasn't able to turn PA because of distance involved and that I found out. I do know that she was at least planning to leave me to be with OM. Still, just like you, I'm having a hard time.

R is tough, it really is. What gets me through is that she is remorseful like your wife and is doing the heavy lifting to repair the marriage. I promised her before and in the beginning of our marriage that if she did the same thing my first wife did to me, I would be gone...yet here I am going thru R. At times I feel disgusted with myself thinking I'm weak for even considering R with her, especially when I trigger.

Next month is the antiversary. I will still walk away and D is still an option. At the 8 month mark, I decided that I would allow her to continue to do the heavy lifting and decided to work it out, but I haven't told her that. I continue to monitor all communications, both cell phones and keyloggers on the computers, and even a VAR. As the days go by and I find nothing, and I see a genuine change in her character, trust is slowly being rebuilt. I'm now at the point that I only check the keyloggers and her phone every couple of days now. Before, I was checking every single day, sometimes twice a day. I'm beginning to feel safe, yet I am vigilant to any red flags and any change in behavior. I hope to get to the point of checking on her maybe once a month.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

YES - the whole angle of "feeling weak" to even consider (much less work at) reconciling is a really, really big deal to me too. Where's my pride, after all? My self-respect, manhood? Buried somewhere in the heart I spilled all over the floor... ya cant choose both.

On one hand, if R can be worked out, the result seems like it can actually be phenomenal... maybe better than it was when the Affair happened, better than it was on DDay and the whole affair had been over and things were actually pretty good, given that you've been shocked into re-awakening, with onus on both sides to really work at it...

On the other hand, even working toward R takes such an unbelievable leap of faith that has now been broken, I just don't know that I can do it. Rewarding her for cheating by not throwing her out and working at it is already eating at me, and we've only been to initial MC sessions. It's still the right thing to do, but damn...

I do not want to turn into a full-time permanent detective in my own home forever; I'd rather walk away now than live like that for the long term. Of course with this all raw, I'm all over it, and at this point there's no contact. It's down the road with life back to being somewhat semi-normal (eventually I do have to go back to work) that will haunt me. 

It is just so incredibly ironic that once you've discovered the affair, you the 'wronged' spouse now have to decide if you trust her!!!!

Ugh. This really sucks.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

2xloser said:


> On the other hand, even working toward R takes such an unbelievable leap of faith that has now been broken, I just don't know that I can do it. Rewarding her for cheating by not throwing her out and working at it is already eating at me, and we've only been to initial MC sessions. It's still the right thing to do, but damn...


From what you've said, your DDay wasn't too long ago, so right now you are in intense pain. However, only you can decide whether this is a deal breaker for you. R isn't for everyone, and just because myself and others are trying to R doesn't necessarily mean you have to. 

I know how it feels, how it really hurts your pride and self esteem. Make it clear that she has to EARN her chance for even a shot at R. You hold all the cards as the betrayed spouse. She has to do the heavy lifting to earn her way back into your heart and the marriage.



2xloser said:


> I do not want to turn into a full-time permanent detective in my own home forever; I'd rather walk away now than live like that for the long term. Of course with this all raw, I'm all over it, and at this point there's no contact. It's down the road with life back to being somewhat semi-normal (eventually I do have to go back to work) that will haunt me.


Like I said, DDay wasnt that long ago. In the beginning, you have her under complete surveillance. If she is truly remorseful and is being transparent and keeps you advised of her whereabouts, you will slowly find that trust is slowly being rebuilt, and you will begin to check less and less. For myself, it's hard to believe that I haven't checked in a couple of days now. I have found nothing at all except a PM thru facebook from the OM when he went fishing. I intercepted it anyway. And that was almost 10 months ago. 

Still, it's entirely up to you and your WW. 



2xloser said:


> It is just so incredibly ironic that once you've discovered the affair, you the 'wronged' spouse now have to decide if you trust her!!!!
> 
> Ugh. This really sucks.


Total, blind trust cannot be rebuilt. But she can earn your trust back a little at a time. And this takes time.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

2x--she must fully express remorse and a committment to work on your marriage if it has any chance of working. You need to be firm and tell her this is her one and only chance to make it right and stick to it. You can come across as NOT weak by actually enforcing that boundary. Make her earn your trust back.

Personal question: had your first wife wanted to work it out, would you have? And if so, would you regret not having had worked it out with her to finid yourself in the same situation again?

Just wondering.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> 2x--she must fully express remorse and a committment to work on your marriage if it has any chance of working. You need to be firm and tell her this is her one and only chance to make it right and stick to it. You can come across as NOT weak by actually enforcing that boundary. Make her earn your trust back.
> 
> Personal question: had your first wife wanted to work it out, would you have? And if so, would you regret not having had worked it out with her to finid yourself in the same situation again?
> 
> Just wondering.


I gave the first wife a 'chance' after her first EA; 18 months later, she left for a different guy. (and I have to say, as I type this -- it sure sounds pathetic). 

Current wife *is* remosrseful -- she had already ended the EA/PA before being caught, and is committed -- and asking for my commitment as well -- to working on the marriage, to come out on a better side. MC has already shown us the laundry list of her issues (adopted; alcoholic father; deceased mother who was her best friend; life-long weight issues...) and she knows she (we?) needs to work them out, let her love herself more fully before she can love anyone else fully. She states she *now* realizes her chase of the high for attention has porobably pushed away me -- the only person other than her mother that truly loved her for who she is/was... then we get too deep into "unconditional love" dialogue. Not sure that exists in marriage, only in parent-child love.

Question is, can I wait to see what comes out the other side of the process.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

She is in the right state of mind if you do decide to try. It will be hard work but the other side can be a lot stronger and better than before. At your point, I was asking myself if I could get past it in time and was it really worth it. Many people here told me it wasn't worth it. My heart told me I loved her very much and we both deserved a shot at something better. I'm very glad I decided to try and am very happy with the changes in her and our relationship. 

Do your heat and gut check. Make a decision, don't waffle. All in or all out. Not half hearted in.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

8yearscheating said:


> She is in the right state of mind if you do decide to try. It will be hard work but the other side can be a lot stronger and better than before. At your point, I was asking myself if I could get past it in time and was it really worth it. Many people here told me it wasn't worth it. My heart told me I loved her very much and we both deserved a shot at something better. I'm very glad I decided to try and am very happy with the changes in her and our relationship.
> 
> Do your heat and gut check. Make a decision, don't waffle. All in or all out. Not half hearted in.


fwiw, I think I needed to hear this tonight -- funny how an anonymous person can have an impact because they've been there. Thank you.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You have been bitten twice, now---How are you ever gonna REALLY trust her again

What is to keep her from doing this again, she dumped a fiance, and she cheated on you---so she does the heavy lifting now---So What----what about 5 yrs from now----Will you walk away then---if then, why not know????---you have been cheated on----how many times do you need to go down with a sinking ship

I may sound like a precursor of doom, and pushing for you to leave---c'est la vie

What I do know---if you stay, you will not have a great wonderful life---it may be satisfactory, but, I am willing to bet, it will not be as good, as if you were, single, out on your own, having an enjoyable time---for eventually if single, you will go back to a good life

I am sorry, but if you stay, a good part of your life will be lived in misery---its just the way it is---WHY you may ask?????---cuz YOU HAVE A SUB-CONSCIOUS---and it won't leave you alone---especially with her there in front of you---SHE IS THE TRIGGER

But you already know all of this don't you---you have already been there!!!!!!!


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

jnj express said:


> You have been bitten twice, now---How are you ever gonna REALLY trust her again
> 
> What is to keep her from doing this again, she dumped a fiance, and she cheated on you---so she does the heavy lifting now---So What----what about 5 yrs from now----Will you walk away then---if then, why not know????---you have been cheated on----how many times do you need to go down with a sinking ship
> 
> ...



I also needed to hear this. As to why I'd consider R (*consider* it, not concluded in any way): you are right, my ability to completely trust anyone again -- EVER -- is completely gone. In a warped sense, then, perhaps I'm better off with this understood and out in the open, with someone on the other side working to overcompensate for that, rather than making it another person's issue that they cannot possibly understand nor do anything about. Further, I can now reserve a piece of me and always up and leave if she stops working at it, I'm not satisfied with where it is, or cannot tolerate the depth or frequency of the sub-conscious misery. We've discussed a 'contract' for me to try for R: take your fair share of assets and go, or we try and you slip up in any way, to my discretion, and you get NOTHING. She says she'd sign that agreement.

I don't know. I suppose there's the two sides of me being weighed... thx


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

If she agrees to a contract like that, it sounds like she is truly willing to work with you.
But... there is always the old saying about a woman's prerogative to change her mind.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Even though I did divorced my wife after I found out about her affair, I DO NOT look down on my fellow men who heroically choose to fight to save their marriages. What I do look down is on their counterproductive behavior (crying, pleading, saying 'I love you', etc) on the part of husbands which not only doesn't work but actually makes matters worse by repulsing more their wives - it even repulses some of us guys when it is our cheating wives that are the ones doing it. I will repeat this - and keep on repeating it because it's true - *women are sexually repulsed by weak and weak acting men*. Show a woman that despite your devastation that you are strong enough to move on with or without her, and more often than not, she will respect you. Without respect - and self respect - there can be no sexual or emotional attraction.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Yup, you have to decide for yourself what is a deal breaker for you. For some, an EA is enough, for others, a PA. And some men can accept that their whole marriage was a lie. It's up to you.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

So she never told you she was engaged when she was engaged? When did you find out? And then she dumped the fiance to be with you? I am confused.

Either way, 2x, don't be weak like Mori said. You need to state your boundaries and follow through w/ actions.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Your contract is called a POST-NUPTUAL AGREEMENT-----to make it stand up in court in a divorce action---you must make her sign a duress clause as part of the post-nup.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

RWB said:


> 2X,
> 
> I still puzzle at that contradiction.


:iagree: Amen to that.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

2x - you will never trust her as you did before and that's a good thing. You will be more aware and able to detect her going the wrong way and will be able to step up and change her course before she does. Hypervigilance and spying will (must) wane eventually. But you will know when she is exhibiting signs of being unhappy and be able to change whats necessary in you to prevent it from getting out of control. Your are not the excuse or reason for her affair - she made the wrong choice all on her own. There were things that opened her heart to it though and you must understand them and work with her to make the marriage a place she wants to stay. Shoveling it under the rug and punishing her for the A forever will not make the marriage strong enough to resist another A. Think hard about that.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

On the 180 and manning up, can i suggest you read the thread Manning up should not be abuse! in the men's club. You will see my opinion and others without us hijacking your thread to debate it. I have done a very long line by line opinion of the 180 today I think will help you understand why I don't agree with it.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

No abuse here on my part, really - but thanks. None at all. 
Still frankly a bit *N*umb, hopefully not also *D*umb again.


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