# Once a cheater always a cheater?



## mishu143 (Jun 20, 2011)

So here is my question, 

I am going thru a divorce because my husband was a jealous freak with insecurities so deep, he ended up cheating. 

I obviously am jaded. I don't trust men. I don't mean to sound mean about it but I mean men who have cheated on their previous partners. 

When we were dating he told me he did cheat on his ex a lot. And he didn't love her. And now that we are divcorcing (he brought on the divorce after I caught him) he says I am the love of his life etc.... he never physically cheated, was just looking for ego boost when he was down and depressed about our troubles. Whatever. I am divorcing him and its over. 

now moving on to new people has been hard because A. I am still married, and he is still chasing my tail, he still pays all the bills, and I plan to honor my marriage until the papers are finalized. 

but I wont lie. there are people I am attracted to and I find out they have cheated and I just smile and pretend we are okay. but im not. because I wont trust them. 

Am I right for feeling this way? or am I overreacting to the once a cheater always a cheater?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Well, it's not true that once a cheater always a cheater in all cases.

Some people are just serial cheaters. They are broken and will cheat until they drop dead.

However, most people who cheat only do it once and do not repeat.

It's also not only men who cheat. Women cheat about as often as me do. From the numbers I've seen about 20% of all people cheat.


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## Just Joe (May 26, 2014)

mishu143 said:


> So here is my question,
> 
> there are people I am attracted to and I find out they have cheated and I just smile and pretend we are okay. but im not. because I wont trust them.
> 
> Am I right for feeling this way? or am I overreacting to the once a cheater always a cheater?


In most things in life, I believe past behavior is a good indicator of future behavior. When we hire people, we ask for a resume and references. When we lend money, we look at their credit report. It's far from absolute, people can change, but how many do? I don't know.

Assuming you are asking this about guys you have met, how do you find out they cheated in the past? Does somebody else clue you in, or do they tell you themselves? Cheating is pretty much universally looked down upon, more so by women than by men I think (and I think guys know this), so it's not something I would think most guys would bring up to you in the "getting to know you" stage, as I think it would tend to scare a good number of women off, even ones who hadn't been cheated on before. Assuming you are finding out from the guys themselves, when these guys talk about the cheating, do they seem ashamed of it? Proud of it?


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

mishu143 said:


> So here is my question,
> 
> .............
> 
> ...


 You are right to feel the way you do but should understand that 'all' is wrong - to tar everybody with the same brush as in any walk of life is wrong

However even tho its not all - it's most. 

Ele just said " However, most people who cheat only do it once and do not repeat." I dont know how she knows that? 

Most people that cheat will do it again imo, full stop. Not all o course but most of them 
You cannot change what you are just like that 

There a few waywards on here who have not cheated again obviously but when I look at them and see how difficult it has been to be where they are now with it I realize most other waywards are weak and just carry on as usual 

I know most former cheats will be the same and as diffic ult as it may make my life asnyone who gets hooked up with me will get this question right off the batt - 'have you cheated before you met me' ? I have no problem with it. Will save me and them a lot lot time and effort 

In my last two relationships going back over 20 years they both cheated - that's over 7300 days of deception treachery and betrayal running a life that was a lie from two woman who I invested my heart and soul into 

I'm not gonna waste a single day doing that again so I want to find out right from the start if I'm wasting my time or not

Currently i am happy in my own skin not having to contend with any more of the daily lying cheating and deceit and although I admittedly miss the very best things about being in a relationship what I have now I value above any more of the daily dishonest sh! I endured before

It'll be question number one for me .....Oh and by the way it should not scare off anybody that has not cheated and wants me for me so .....


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I don't see this as a problem at all.

I also will not get into a serious relationship with a known cheater.

And like you I don't throw the reason in their face...I just refuse to let things go there.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

While I'd argue that the old wisdom of "once a cheater, always a cheater" doesn't apply to every person that has ever cheated, it would certainly seem to apply to your husband.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

> In most things in life, I believe past behavior is a good indicator of future behavior. When we hire people, we ask for a resume and references. When we lend money, we look at their credit report. It's far from absolute, people can change, but how many do? I don't know.


I have never posted on these sites but I actually did check if my spouse was on them after the EAs where discovered. 

How to Report A Cheater | Cheater Websites Resource Center


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

When somebody tells you who they are, you should listen!

Can people change...sure! But we're all better off without a fixer-upper with major character flaws vs. someone who values their vows and takes them seriously.

It's possible that couples will feel more close, more intimate, more connected after a successful R, but who wants to have to go through that?


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

This is a recurring theme here, and is usually very divisive. The people that have dealt with a disloyal spouse in the past, but were unable to reconcile, will usually say "once a cheater always a cheater." On the other hand, those that have successfully reconciled will often say "people are fallible, but are capable of learning from their mistakes and use their experiences to grow and become better individuals."

Here is some reading on the issue, if anyone is actually interested in learning, not just choosing sides:


> Once a cheater, always a cheater? It really depends on why the cheating occurred. Some types of cheating are much easier to resolve than others.
> 
> Change is possible, but difficult. It requires a lot of insight and effort. Without some type of counseling and a strong commitment to change, people often make the same mistake again


Once a cheater always a cheater? - Truth About Deception


> Just as the figures about people who cheat vary among studies, so do stats on repeat cheating. One reference suggests that only about 22% of those who cheat do so again, while another finds that 55% repeat. According to an online survey of nearly 21,000 men and women who claimed to have had affairs, 60% of the men and half of the women were unfaithful more than once. Yet among the full group, only 38% of men and 50% of women said that they considered leaving their spouses, even though they felt that problems in the relationship (56% men, 65% women) or boredom with their sex life (44% men, 30% women) led to their infidelity.


Once a Cheater, Always a Cheater & other Clichés: Myth or Fact? - Dr. Joy Davidson


> How can I ever trust them again? If they cheated once won't they do it again?
> 
> "Once a cheater, always a cheater" is an understandable response from anyone who has been betrayed; it offers you the certainty to dismiss an unfaithful partner's pleas for "I can change and won't ever do this again", removing the potential for getting hurt because it allows you to never trust them, and sometimes anyone, ever again.
> 
> ...


"Once a Cheater, Always a Cheater... Maybe Not" | Psychology Today




> People also cheat because of relationship reasons—characteristics about their relationship itself that are unsatisfying. For these people, becoming involved in a well-matched partnership diminishes or eliminates their desire to cheat. "Once a cheater, always a cheater” does not hold true for this group. When they stray, factors about the relationship itself must be examined. Researchers find that partnerships characterized by dissatisfaction, unfulfilling sex, and high conflict are at higher risk for infidelity. Also, the more dissimilar partners are—in terms of personality, education level, and other factors—the more likely they are to experience infidelity.


Why People Cheat | Psychology Today



Those are just a few quotes, the articles themselves are pretty decent and worth a read.


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## DidntLearnMyLesson (Jun 25, 2014)

If a guy admitted to cheating before then you've been warned of what he is capable of. tread lightly.
I'm not saying he will do it again, he could have "grown" and learned his lesson. that's the hope.
I'm just saying that he has experienced the "high" of a forbidden, secretive, lust-filled relationship. that's the reality.


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

Five myths about cheating - The Washington Post



> In a 1991 study, sex researcher Shere Hite found that 70 percent of married women have cheated on their partners; a 1993 follow-up study found that 72 percent of married men have as well. According to a 2004 University of Chicago study, 25 percent of married men have had at least one extramarital affair. And with more than 12 million members looking for extramarital intimacy on *edit: the one barred here, which is humorous*.com, it’s easier than ever to break marriage vows. A wedding ring is not insurance against cheating.
> 
> Although society cherishes monogamy, the expectation of exclusive sexual activity is unsustainable for most couples. We may need to investigate other relationship models: open arrangements, or what sex columnist Dan Savage calls “monogamish” relationships, in which couples have flings, affairs or threesomes. These ways of loving, along with polyamorous relationships and even singlehood, should be as equally valued in our culture as monogamy. Only when men and women are able to make sexual choices free of stigma will people be honest with their partners about their desires.


"Loyal" spouses may want to believe that monogamy is the height of morality, and that cheating spouses are to be vilified, and subject to whatever penalties their spouse feels like doling out...but the fact is, there is a cultural shift going on that is making that perspective sincerely outdated.

And here is why I had a thread that compared this to religion, even though it didn't mean to become a religious thread. The realization of the above does not mean I consider myself completely within my right to now cheat on my wife at will because "everyone is doing it." Similarly, being an atheist doesn't mean I can just commit crimes and civil wrongs because I don't have a god waiting to come down on me on judgment day. Cheating is wrong, but it's not the end of the world, not nearly, and in my case, it made me pull back the curtain on and face, and voice, a lot of the problems with marriage. Some people have affairs, some people just shut down on their partner, withhold sex, others turn to verbal and/or physical abuse....lots of ways for marital distress to materialize. To claim that cheating is....*gasp*....oh my god, how horrible!....so much worse than the others, is naive. It reminds me of routines that both Chris Rock and Bill Burr do re: hitting a woman. To paraphrase, _you shouldn't do it, it's wrong...but to imply there's no REASON to?!?!!?_


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

changedbeliefs said:


> ...but the fact is, there is a cultural shift going on that is making that perspective sincerely outdated.


Hence the decline of marriage and the collapsing of western society. 

Remember kids, the rationalization hamster isn't just a female phenomenon.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

changedbeliefs said:


> Five myths about cheating - The Washington Post
> 
> 
> "Loyal" spouses may want to believe that monogamy is the height of morality, and that cheating spouses are to be vilified, and subject to whatever penalties their spouse feels like doling out...but the fact is, there is a cultural shift going on that is making that perspective sincerely outdated.


If we get with someone and have an agreement to be exclusive, this would mean if you run off with someone else, then there is grounds to dissolve the relationship.



changedbeliefs said:


> And here is why I had a thread that compared this to religion, even though it didn't mean to become a religious thread. The realization of the above does not mean I consider myself completely within my right to now cheat on my wife at will because "everyone is doing it." Similarly, being an atheist doesn't mean I can just commit crimes and civil wrongs because I don't have a god waiting to come down on me on judgment day. Cheating is wrong, but it's not the end of the world, not nearly, and in my case, it made me pull back the curtain on and face, and voice, a lot of the problems with marriage. Some people have affairs, some people just shut down on their partner, withhold sex, others turn to verbal and/or physical abuse....lots of ways for marital distress to materialize. To claim that cheating is....*gasp*....oh my god, how horrible!....so much worse than the others, is naive. It reminds me of routines that both Chris Rock and Bill Burr do re: hitting a woman. To paraphrase, _you shouldn't do it, it's wrong...but to imply there's no REASON to?!?!!?_


Cheating is pretty messed up. If you want to be with multiple people be up front about it.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

changedbeliefs said:


> Five myths about cheating - The Washington Post
> 
> 
> "Loyal" spouses may want to believe that monogamy is the height of morality, and that cheating spouses are to be vilified, and subject to whatever penalties their spouse feels like doling out...but the fact is, there is a cultural shift going on that is making that perspective sincerely outdated.
> ...


How does this add to the conversation we are having about the probability of a person that has cheated, making that choice again?



> To claim that cheating is....*gasp*....oh my god, how horrible!....so much worse than the others, is naive.


Where is this claim made in this thread? Why do you feel the need to minimize the impact of infidelity on peoples lives? The emotional toll of infidelity has been equated with losing loved ones, and rape, is there a "cultural shift going on that is making that perspective sincerely outdated" too? There is a way to discuss issues without vilifying the people you are discussing those issues with. Perhaps reading the thread before posting would help you a bit?


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Ripper said:


> Hence the decline of marriage and the collapsing of western society.
> 
> Remember kids, the rationalization hamster isn't just a female phenomenon.


Compartmentalization, justification, and the lack of positive coping skills, are all issues that both men and women deal with. There is no reason to equate any of those with a rodent.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Paladin said:


> How does this add to the conversation we are having about the probability of a person that has cheated, making that choice again?
> 
> 
> 
> Where is this claim made in this thread? Why do you feel the need to minimize the impact of infidelity on peoples lives? The emotional toll of infidelity has been equated with losing loved ones, and rape, is there a "cultural shift going on that is making that perspective sincerely outdated" too? There is a way to discuss issues without vilifying the people you are discussing those issues with. Perhaps reading the thread before posting would help you a bit?


Being cheated on and betrayed is an extremely painful proposition.

Plus cheating isn't just the sex acts. Many times people allowing others into their relationship are exposing their partner to physical violence, robbery, etc.

It's not a clean cut simple thing.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

treyvion said:


> Being cheated on and betrayed is an extremely painful proposition.
> 
> Plus cheating isn't just the sex acts. Many times people allowing others into their relationship are exposing their partner to physical violence, robbery, etc.
> 
> It's not a clean cut simple thing.


The sky is blue, and we need water to survive. 

Im confused about why you quoted my questions to another poster and responded with the above. Care to elaborate a bit?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

CB, there are lots of options for people who want to pursue relationships outside of the accepted framework of monogamous marriage...

* Open marriage
* Swinging (which, I guess, is a sort of open marriage, though usually w/ different rules)
* Polyamory (usually a committed relationship, though w/ multiple partners involved)
* No marriage at all

You'll note that the first three of these typically -- and rightfully -- involves the express knowledge and consent of all involved parties. Marrying someone under the pretense of being agreeable to the commonly-held tenets of monogamous marriage and then attempting to change the rules months or years down the road is nothing short of despicable (and especially if subterfuge is involved), unless, of course, both parties are amenable to this.

Is the pain of infidelity the absolute worse thing that one person can visit upon another? No, of course not. But why would you seek to minimize something that is known to bring about symptoms as serious as those seen in PTSD? Which is worse, a man beating his wife to unconsciousness or a man beating his wife to death? *WHY WOULD HE DO EITHER?!?*

If there is indeed a cultural shift away from monogamy in marriage (and I believe that you may very well be correct in this), it is because -- more and more -- people are showing that they're more committed to the perpetual gratification of their own genitals than they are to the notion of raising their children in a stable, loving environment. Make no mistake about this.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

mishu143 said:


> Am I right for feeling this way? or am I overreacting to the once a cheater always a cheater?


you are 1000% right in feeling this way, people that cheats once don't always cheat again, some redeem themselves and become better humans beings, but lets be honest and objetive here the vast majority have crossed a line that was hard to cross just the first time, from from the second time to forward they just keep perfecting how to get away with it.

I always see cheaters like addicts (alcoholics, drug addicts), they can redeem themselves but the vast majority once an addict will remain addict.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

manticore said:


> I always see cheaters like addicts (alcoholics, drug addicts), they can redeem themselves but the *vast majority* once an addict will remain addict.


Can you post anything that supports this point of view, I am genuinely curious, not singling you out.


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## CluelessWif (Jun 20, 2014)

This is a hard reply, because while I believe a cheater can get better, it doesn't just happen. Some things to consider: 

1. People don't cheat because of their partner. They cheat because of themselves. Until they realize this there is nothing to be done.

2. Cheating doesn't just get better. It takes work, help, and a true understanding of why they cheated.

3. Cheating takes a lot of work to overcome, and you don't want to sign up for that right off the bat.

Avoid the cheaters. Not only are you getting in to a high work low reward senario, you are not going to be happy. As a victim you are going to be more suspicious, and the only way to build your faith in men is to spend some time around some good ones.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Paladin said:


> The sky is blue, and we need water to survive.
> 
> Im confused about why you quoted my questions to another poster and responded with the above. Care to elaborate a bit?


I felt you minimized cheating because "everyone" is doing it.

It can cause a whole lot of trouble to happen, and it's not just because of a hurt or betrayed spouse.

So I mentioned that people's families have been taken advantage of by allowing an interloper into the marital bed.

Also unless it's swingers, cheating is going to cause a bunch of mental anguish and pain, although I know society will not look down upon it, unless it's the case of a male cheating on a female.

If you want to be with multiple people due to religion or lifestyle be up front about it.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Paladin said:


> Can you post anything that supports this point of view, I am genuinely curious, not singling you out.


concerning what, the cheaters or the addicts?

because the cheaters I thought it was obvious just looking at all TAM stories of infidelity where easily more than half of the users find that their WS had many OM/OW (EAs and PAs), and in fact the more rares cases are where actually the cheaters got togther with their affair partners exclusively


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

mishu143 said:


> So here is my question,
> 
> I am going thru a divorce because my husband was a jealous freak with insecurities so deep, he ended up cheating.
> 
> ...


Walk away from previous cheaters. There are plenty of others available with no cheating history. Why bother.


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## CluelessWif (Jun 20, 2014)

Paladin said:


> Can you post anything that supports this point of view, I am genuinely curious, not singling you out.


A lot of serial cheaters have a high-risk personality. It is not that they are specifically addicted to cheating. Their addiction is to the thrill. You should read Why Men Like Petraeus Risk It All to Cheat


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## mishu143 (Jun 20, 2011)

Just Joe said:


> In most things in life, I believe past behavior is a good indicator of future behavior. When we hire people, we ask for a resume and references. When we lend money, we look at their credit report. It's far from absolute, people can change, but how many do? I don't know.
> 
> Assuming you are asking this about guys you have met, how do you find out they cheated in the past? Does somebody else clue you in, or do they tell you themselves? Cheating is pretty much universally looked down upon, more so by women than by men I think (and I think guys know this), so it's not something I would think most guys would bring up to you in the "getting to know you" stage, as I think it would tend to scare a good number of women off, even ones who hadn't been cheated on before. Assuming you are finding out from the guys themselves, when these guys talk about the cheating, do they seem ashamed of it? Proud of it?


Well this one person, told me after about three or four converstions/meet ups. He confessed he was in a long distance got lonely and cheated with a co-worker. I think he is ashamed, but I worry still... May be silly, but im still not in a good place to even entertain relationships, yet I find the attraction magnetic, but when he told me this, it kinda brought it down a notch. Don't know if that makes sense?


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## mishu143 (Jun 20, 2011)

Thank you all so much for the replies. I asked because I have yet to meet someone I feel connected to who has not cheated. I know there has to be a man out there who has and would never cheat. All I want is honesty, love, and support. I made a horrible mistake when I stayed with my EX for the baby I was carrying. 

I made a mistake when I forgave the first time for an EA. I forgave a lot thinking that that was my job. And beat myself up for being a nag, when in retrospect I was nothing more than an unhappy spouse. My partner was not committed to me. He was in a love hate relationship with himself. It just seems impossible to find a good man. Im not going to clubs or looking for any men period. Im a very simple girl. I am young, with kids, and lonely. I cant wait for this divorce to be done. I want my prince charming, as stupid as that may sound. I am well aware that people are not perfect as I am a prime example of this. But none the less, I am honest, loving, and LOYAL. It doesn't take much effort from me to do the right thing. Cheating is not right. No matter how you may want to slice it, it is not. Only on a relationship were extramarital affairs are accepted is it okay. That is between spouses. 

I get sad because I know I deserve more than I get, but I settle because what I want never actually gets to me. I don't want to categorize all men or women who have cheate dinto a bubble. But I do believe that there is a disconnect between stopping yourself from doing something impulsive and for a thrill, and just saying no because you are commited to someone else. Far away or not. Bi*chy or not. Mean or not. The commitment is there. Honor it or leave... Make sense?

Thank you again. Please continue to post. Love the advice!!


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

manticore said:


> concerning what, the cheaters or the addicts?
> 
> because the cheaters I thought it was *obvious* just looking at all TAM stories of infidelity where easily more than half of the users find that their WS had many OM/OW (EAs and PAs), and in fact the more rares cases are where actually the cheaters got togther with their affair partners exclusively


It is one of the few things I have found both here in TAM and in Real life. Most cheaters, and yes I mean most, have a history of cheating that can span multiple relationships. Some few exceptions I have heard about on here. 

My x cheated on every single relationship she ever had going back to the 11th grade. So OP like you I do not date people who previously cheated. Too big a risk


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> It is one of the few things I have found both here in TAM and in Real life. Most cheaters, and yes I mean most, have a history of cheating that can span multiple relationships. Some few exceptions I have heard about on here.
> 
> My x cheated on every single relationship she ever had going back to the 11th grade. So OP like you I do not date people who previously cheated. Too big a risk


How is the sex with a "non cheater"?


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

manticore said:


> concerning what, the cheaters or the addicts?
> 
> because the cheaters I thought it was obvious just looking at all TAM stories of infidelity where easily more than half of the users find that their WS had many OM/OW (EAs and PAs), and in fact the more rares cases are where actually the cheaters got togther with their affair partners exclusively


The addicts, sorry for not being clear.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

treyvion said:


> I felt you minimized cheating because "everyone" is doing it.
> 
> It can cause a whole lot of trouble to happen, and it's not just because of a hurt or betrayed spouse.
> 
> ...


I think you have me confused with someone else, I was responding to the person minimizing the cheating, maybe you meant to quote him/her?

My post is this one http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/202730-once-cheater-always-cheater.html#post9362778


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

treyvion said:


> How is the sex with a "non cheater"?


Best I ever had honestly


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

Headspin said:


> You are right to feel the way you do but should understand that 'all' is wrong - to tar everybody with the same brush as in any walk of life is wrong
> 
> However even tho its not all - it's most.
> 
> ...



Of course no one in their right mind when asked is going to say " yeah i cheated on my last girlfriend or multiple girlfriends " . Anyone with half a brain would know saying that will not improve their chances of success with you. If by chance you do find someone honest enough to tell you that you would be wise to not dismiss them . I would bet it is a sure sign of someone who is looking to start a relationship with someone based on honesty and trust. It tells me that they are not interested in lying or cheating because they don't want another failed relationship. I could be wrong but i don't think anyone that will be honest knowing it will surely make them look bad is someone that is going to cheat again
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Well, it's not true that once a cheater always a cheater in all cases.
> 
> Some people are just serial cheaters. They are broken and will cheat until they drop dead.
> 
> ...


And what is the stat for repeat cheaters? Id like to see that.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

stoney1215 said:


> Of course no one in their right mind when asked is going to say " yeah i cheated on my last girlfriend or multiple girlfriends " . Anyone with half a brain would know saying that will not improve their chances of success with you. If by chance you do find someone honest enough to tell you that you would be wise to not dismiss them . I would bet *it is a sure sign of someone who is looking to start a relationship with someone based on honesty and trust. It tells me that they are not interested in lying or cheating because they don't want another failed relationship.* I could be wrong but i don't think anyone that will be honest knowing it will surely make them look bad is someone that is going to cheat again
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually that is a fair point you make.

But I tend to judge others as I would myself. if somebody asked me that question I'd be happy to answer.

I would have thought anyone lying about it from the start would also surely realize they'd get cught out pretty quick by somebody like me so why waste the time.

I spose I'll find out when I eventually get to pose that question, we'll see


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

stoney1215 said:


> Of course no one in their right mind when asked is going to say " yeah i cheated on my last girlfriend or multiple girlfriends " . Anyone with half a brain would know saying that will not improve their chances of success with you. If by chance you do find someone honest enough to tell you that you would be wise to not dismiss them . I would bet it is a sure sign of someone who is looking to start a relationship with someone based on honesty and trust. It tells me that they are not interested in lying or cheating because they don't want another failed relationship. I could be wrong but i don't think anyone that will be honest knowing it will surely make them look bad is someone that is going to cheat again
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Doesn't this all depend upon the situation?? If their past relationship ended due to infidelity and it is a matter of public record (such as in divorce or it was made public through the news) or you have a mutual friend that knows the truth, they might answer truthfully as they know they will be found out soon enough and it has nothing to do with a thought about a future failed relationship due to their lie or starting a relationship based upon truth but just mere disclosure or they may "lie" as they don't truly think they cheated in their mind (the ideal it is not a lie if you truly do believe it)??? 

I personally know of several people that wouldn't say they cheated (even though everyone else would say otherwise) as in their mind they have convinced themselves that the relationship had ended (whether the partner was notified or not) long before they started the "extra activities" and therefor never cheated.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

poida said:


> And what is the stat for repeat cheaters? Id like to see that.


I posted it earlier in this thread


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

mishu143 said:


> So here is my question,
> 
> I am going thru a divorce because my husband was a jealous freak with insecurities so deep, he ended up cheating.
> 
> ...


I think many addictive behaviors run in cycles. I'm not saying all cheaters have addictive tendencies, but often addicts that quit end up cheating often.

My viewpoint on cheating is far different from the avg TAM poster. I don't believe the studies, articles, etc that say women/men cheat at almost the same level. Men cheat in some form all the time!! 

The sex industry is in the billions and solely supported on the backs of men (primarily). Brothels, Escorts, strippers, and of course porn where is this industry for women? 

That alone should scream the propensity by which men live, breath, and think about sex. Just like in your case how many girlfriends do you know that left their man due to a affair? 

I don't know a man who hasn't had a affair either a true affair, vistit to a strip club with the "unsaid back room", escort, or other. Every guy I know hasn't divulged that info, obviously, but usually over time the conversation comes up with something like this "I've dabbled a bit, but those days are behind me." or "Nope, never with a smile!"

I know there are men who don't cheat, but not be religious, if they aren't really into church I think most men stray at least once in their life.

Best of luck!! I do think it wanes over time though  no guarantees though.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

OhGeesh said:


> women/men cheat at almost the same level. Men cheat in some form all the time!!
> 
> The sex industry is in the billions and solely supported on the backs of men (primarily). Brothels, Escorts, strippers, and of course porn where is this industry for women?


You asked the same exact questions and tried to make the same argument in march, I dont feel like posting the research with citations that contradicts your point of view again, so if you really do care, take a look at what I posted back in march:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/7544049-post63.html

I'm not sure if it will make a difference since you say you "don't believe the studies, articles, etc" but its worth a shot, maybe someone else will learn something by reading the linked post


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

OhGeesh said:


> I don't know a man who hasn't had a affair either a true affair, vistit to a strip club with the "unsaid back room", escort, or other. Every guy I know hasn't divulged that info, obviously, but usually over time the conversation comes up with something like this "I've dabbled a bit, but those days are behind me." or "Nope, never with a smile!"
> 
> I know there are men who don't cheat, but not be religious, if they aren't really into church I think most men stray at least once in their life.


You need to get a better set of friends and acquaintances if this is how they behave as I have never cheated, and yes I am a man. 

I am both appalled and offended by your assumptions and summations. 

The only men I have known that have cheated are the ones that were the OM of my wife. Maybe I lead a sheltered life or maybe I am just a better judge of character in selecting my friends and whom I surround myself with making me lucky to be this way.

I am not really religious, I have religion but am not active in any church or ritualistic practice at this time so that doesn't explain it either. 

I know you're a man, so how many times have you cheated since you ascertain that all men cheat?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Paladin said:


> You asked the same exact questions and tried to make the same argument in march, I dont feel like posting the research with citations that contradicts your point of view again, so if you really do care, take a look at what I posted back in march:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/7544049-post63.html
> 
> I'm not sure if it will make a difference since you say you "don't believe the studies, articles, etc" but its worth a shot, maybe someone else will learn something by reading the linked post


Prove it wrong then? Most studies pilot less than 500 people and this is somehow extrapolated to all of society?

Just like in all things you follow the money and use common sense not some silly study with a agenda based of a ridiculously small sample size.

How many men watch porn daily compared to women?
How often do men masturbate comapred to women?
How many brothels are their for women vs men?
How many escorts and escort sites that cater to women vs men?
Porn industry is mainly made of of what?

To somehow say that a study of a couple hundred people trumps the common sense and what industry says is ludicrous.

It's blatantly obvious which gender is more preoccupied with sex and which is driven by sex, but yet they cheat at almost the same frequency? 

Sure they do  you keep believing your small sample sized questionaire based studies as fact. Gimme a break  follow the money it's obvious to all, but the blind!!


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Squeakr said:


> You need to get a better set of friends and acquaintances if this is how they behave as I have never cheated, and yes I am a man.
> 
> I am both appalled and offended by your assumptions and summations.
> 
> ...


I cheated a ton in college none since married though my wife would be very displeased if she knew I watched porn from time to time.

You can be displeased all you want. Congrats on being a rare one!! The 3 engineers I work with all have cheated, my neihbor cheated, my brother in law cheated once, pretty common! 

Again follow the money where is the huge sex industry funded by women?


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

OhGeesh said:


> I cheated a ton in college none since married though my wife would be very displeased if she knew I watched porn from time to time.
> 
> You can be displeased all you want. Congrats on being a rare one!! The 3 engineers I work with all have cheated, my neihbor cheated, my brother in law cheated once, pretty common!
> 
> Again follow the money where is the huge sex industry funded by women?


More men watch porn than women therefor - so all men cheat :scratchhead:

That's the most idiotic thing I've seen posted on here

Well I don't cheat didn't and never will. In my life, I'm 59, I've seen men cheat but in the last 20 years I've seen women more than even that out till now I genuinely believe marginally more women cheat than men


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Although it is probable that a cheater may reoffend, it isn't fair to think that all cheaters will do it again.

My ex wife cheated on me and later as it turns out according to our daughter she cheated again on her current husband. So she has cheated again (they are still together despite this), it is not unreasonable to think she may do it again. Yet she may never cheat again despite her previous form.

There are also people who cheat on their spouse only once or for a period and then subsequently never do it again.

I have no problem with open marriages, swinging marriages, polygamous/polyamorous relationships etc as long as all participants are wilful consenting adults, i.e. they want to be in a relationship like that.

The egregious act of betrayal is more about respect, trust, deceit and lying than sex. Swingers can be betrayed by wayward spouses in exactly the same way that monogamous spouses can be.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Even in my current situation I do not believe this to be entirely true, a lot offenders continue because they face no real or serious consequences and are able to continue in that mind set.

I naively thought I knew the truth even though I had niggling doubts from time to time, seems had there been a polygraph and some much tougher penalties she may not have done it again, but it depends on the charcter of the offender.

Bit of a blanket statement but there are a few of them around


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

wranglerman said:


> Even in my current situation I do not believe this to be entirely true,* a lot offenders continue because they face no real or serious consequences and are able to continue in that mind set.*
> 
> I naively thought I knew the truth even though I had niggling doubts from time to time, seems had there been a polygraph and some much tougher penalties she may not have done it again, but it depends on the charcter of the offender.
> 
> Bit of a blanket statement but there are a few of them around


The section in bold says it all. I've often said here that the WS in 'reconciliation' rarely face any serious consequences, despite their very loud protestations to the contrary. Don't get me wrong, some do face real consequences, and those who do are less likely to be repeat offenders. However many of the hardcore reconciliation cases (with traumatized BSs) that we've seen here over time *were repeat offenders*, and in those cases the BS's never really made their WS's faced any real consequences, which was why the BS's got burned the second time (and they still didn't make them face consequences). Wranglerman, your case is a living example of this; you caught your wife once, gave her a break and she screwed you again. The difference with your case is that you learned from the first time, and now you are not only giving your WS real consequences for the second offense and you aren't giving a her third chance.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

I think you need to set your sights higher than just someone who has never cheated.

I also think you run the risk of trusting too much. What on earth makes you think that a lying cheater will always tell you the truth about what he's done? Some have for sure, but I would expect a lot of cheaters out there to just lie to you. I would expect a lot of them will just say what you want to hear to get an inch closer.

You need to do your homework. And that means doing a lot more than just asking them outright if they have cheated.

That's not nearly enough detective work to select a respectable mate.

And how about finding out WHY they haven't cheated?

Is it because they always made a conscious habit of putting the necessary safeguards in place to protect their romantic relationships?

OR

Is it because opportunity just never came knocking at the door?

OR

Is it because they just define cheating differently than you do, but they have in fact had emotional affairs?

You need to do a lot more homework here.

Once a cheat, always a cheat may not be accurate, but people with a history of infidelity are certainly a much higher risk candidate than those who sincerely haven't.

But that's not enough. This is not a check list. You need to find out what they think cheating is, how they think cheating is avoided, and what the actual history is of this person.


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## mishu143 (Jun 20, 2011)

Allen_A said:


> I think you need to set your sights higher than just someone who has never cheated.
> 
> I also think you run the risk of trusting too much. What on earth makes you think that a lying cheater will always tell you the truth about what he's done? Some have for sure, but I would expect a lot of cheaters out there to just lie to you. I would expect a lot of them will just say what you want to hear to get an inch closer.
> 
> ...


Agreed. But for the sake of length I though I would cut it short thinking that those things were obvious. Yes, in selecting a partner there is much more to it than just the cheating, but I do feel that if a person was capable of it, it reflects on their character. 

I may be too trusting but then again im not going to perform a full interrogation/family/previous partner check. lol.. I do understand where you are coming from, but this is someone I just met not too long ago... which btw has been nixed already.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

It's a good rule to live by so long as there's room for the exception.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

OhGeesh said:


> I think many addictive behaviors run in cycles. I'm not saying all cheaters have addictive tendencies, but often addicts that quit end up cheating often.
> 
> My viewpoint on cheating is far different from the avg TAM poster. I don't believe the studies, articles, etc that say women/men cheat at almost the same level. Men cheat in some form all the time!!
> 
> ...


I'm one--18 years with the same woman and never even considered cheating. If your word means something to you, breaking it doesn't enter your mind, or if it does, is dismissed as fast as it enters. My promise when I got married meant something to me. To my wife, it did not. She told me so....


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

mishu143 said:


> but I wont lie. there are people I am attracted to and I find out they have cheated and I just smile and pretend we are okay. but im not. because I wont trust them.


I'm right there with you. 

Now, do I think once a cheater always a cheater is correct? Well obviously its not. But IMO the chances of someone who has cheated will forever walk a straight line are small.
There are some fine examples of those people here, such as Mrs. John Adams. I truly believe someone like her HAS truly changed and will never cheat again.

But I think her kind are a rare breed (hope that comes out as a compliment )

I think even those that never cheat again do not truly change like MJA has. I think there are cheaters out there that will never actually cheat again, but still have that taste for wanting a little strange. They just refrain from it because they don't want to lose what they have.

So that comes to how I handle relationships. I'm like you. If I find out someone I am giving my considerations to has cheated on someone in the past, I lose interest. Could this person have changed? Sure. But I'm not going to risk it.

I used this analogy before, there is a chance that if I jump in the lions' pit at the zoo that there is a chance the lion isn't hungry and I won't get eaten. But I'm not going to jump in that pit to find out. 

So even though there are exceptions to the rule, I live by the "Once a cheater always a cheater" code.


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## learning to love myself (Apr 18, 2013)

First and foremost I'm sorry you were cheated on.

I'm a woman and a cheater, prior to my husband with whom I betrayed, I was cheated on by my long term boyfriend at the time, not once but more times than I care to admit. 

A couple of years before I left him, he had a child with someone behind my back, he went back and forth between me and this other woman and demanded that I be part of this child's life.

I had believed, that once a cheater always a cheater. Now I'm the one who cheated on my husband of 23 years, we are in reconciliation and I'm being held accountable for my selfishness. 

My husband has repeated those words to me offend and said, " you of all people could do that" You were someone who knows this pain better than anyone and yet you did it to me?

I know in my heart I will never do this again, the pain I feel every time I look at my husband and know I caused him such heartache is more than I can bear at times.

I cant answer for all cheaters, but I'm surprised by the large volume of people who are doing it. 

We ran our own study, because we had huge arguments on who cheats the most.

My husband has ran a couple of experiments via the internet
one for me and one for him. 

To my surprise on any given day, I can get in the upwards of 500 locale married men willing to cheat on their spouse and out of those only a few state their wife knows what they are doing.

The majority don't ask for a picture and just want a hookup.

when my husband did this he had 3 women respond, one was a prostitute, one wanted my husband to bring his wife and one was the wife looking for someone for both her and her husband to play with.

BTW this was his idea, I believe in some ways this experiment has made things harder between us as he says I can get any man anytime I want one.

I don't think this will help you, it's just some food for thought.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

It's like (anti) innocent until proven guilty. In this case if someone has cheated then they are untrustworthy until proven loyal. And that is a slow process.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

learning to love myself said:


> First and foremost I'm sorry you were cheated on.
> 
> I'm a woman and a cheater, prior to my husband with whom I betrayed, I was cheated on by my long term boyfriend at the time, not once but more times than I care to admit.
> 
> ...


If your experiment is truly indicative of the nature of what is out there and the responses (men vs women), did it occur to either of you that with the opportunity so readily available to women that they were in fact not turning to the Internet or responding to ads as it was just as easy for them to achieve the desired response in person and therefor that is how they conducted their operations if they so chose?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## learning to love myself (Apr 18, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> If your experiment is truly indicative of the nature of what is out there and the responses (men vs women), did it occur to either of you that with the opportunity so readily available to women that they were in fact not turning to the Internet or responding to ads as it was just as easy for them to achieve the desired response in person and therefor that is how they conducted their operations if they so chose?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think it depends.

I live in a very large city and everything is done via the internet.
When I cheated, I choose to meet through the internet as I had very little freedom to begin with. 

The few married woman I used to know who have cheated also did it via the internet and my single friend, when she choose to date she did so via the internet.

When I was younger/not married with no internet, I went out
to meet people, these days unless your 21-25 your not doing the bar scene. 

It just seems people go for the easy way, from what your saying all these wife's have a lot a free time to go out and look for an affaire partner. 

I think Facebook and other sites have made it easy online. 

just my opinion


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## mishu143 (Jun 20, 2011)

vellocet said:


> I'm right there with you.
> 
> Now, do I think once a cheater always a cheater is correct? Well obviously its not. But IMO the chances of someone who has cheated will forever walk a straight line are small.
> There are some fine examples of those people here, such as Mrs. John Adams. I truly believe someone like her HAS truly changed and will never cheat again.
> ...


I am so with you on this. Those are my feelings exactly, why bother trying to find out... Now if only I could meet a man who hasnt' cheated lol....


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

mishu143 said:


> I am so with you on this. Those are my feelings exactly, why bother trying to find out... Now if only I could meet a man who hasnt' cheated lol....


We are out there.

Myself, even though I have never cheated on anyone, have made the decision to not get close to anyone and make no commitments after getting divorced and dating a while.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

If I was in the dating pool and a potential partner told me that they cheated and then listed off the excuses as to why they did (ex. "my husband/bf was cold", etc) then no I wouldn't consider future dates


but if they said something along the lines of "I cheated and it was a really dumb decision" then I would consider getting to know her more. 

we all make bad choices in life, and obviously some are worse than others but ultimately it's how you learn and grow from those decisions that count more


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Almostrecovered said:


> If I was in the dating pool and a potential partner told me that they cheated and then listed off the excuses as to why they did (ex. "my husband/bf was cold", etc) then no I wouldn't consider future dates
> 
> 
> but if they said something along the lines of "I cheated and it was a really dumb decision" then I would consider getting to know her more.
> ...


I can see this, you'd appreciate the honesty with the latter, and the fact that they called it a decision and a dumb one.. I'd want to hear why they now think it was dumb, and what they used for justifications.

The first one, I'd rip to shreds, like if she said her husband was cold I'd ask if he was cheating, because that's about as cold as it gets... I'd ask if he as cold before or after she found a new boyfriend.. so yea, that one wouldn't last long.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Almostrecovered said:


> If I was in the dating pool and a potential partner told me that they cheated and then listed off the excuses as to why they did (ex. "my husband/bf was cold", etc) then no I wouldn't consider future dates


I wonder what the person's response would be if you would have said, "well gee, I better walk the straight and narrow then huh?"


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

You rock MJA. I hope you and JA enjoy each other for the remainder of your time in this life. You both have overcome so much.


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