# Advice on this forum seems to always be - get out



## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

Don't mean to be rude and appreciate everyones times giving their opinion but I've noticed that 99% of opinion on here is = get out while you can.

Fair enough. You might be right but its not always that easy.

Appreciate that maybe a lot of people on this forum who have a lot of experience in the bad things but sometime I think maybe its a bit skewed that way????

Am I right?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I only advise "get out" if the person is really clear with themselves that they have tried everything they believe they can and should. I mean, most posters don't just say "get out" without trying first. Right?

It is just that if you HAVE tried everything and given it enough time, then yeah you can't change people. At that point, "get out" may be the only way to create change in your own life if you are finally ready for it.


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## altawa (Jan 4, 2015)

If I knew then what I know now, if I had access to this forum 14 years ago, I likely wouldn't be married right now. 

Being 100% honest, there are days now that I feel trapped by my marriage. I feel like the advice to get away while you can is very valid, and wish somebody had given it to me way back when. So, since that wasn't the case, now I am here and if I see a case where that seems like the best route (and a lot of the times here, it is), I say it.

Honestly, a lot of the time, by the time somebody is to the point of creating an account and posting here, things are usually pretty bad....think about it. How bad do things in your marriage have to be before you start soliciting advice from anonymous people on the internet?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Hi Bob, 

Awkwardly in relationships the only way you can actually begin to change things is to put yourself into a position where you do not care.

_The person with all the power is always the one that cares the least!_​
The tricky thing to ask your self is what you DO care about and when? People advising others to "get out" are those trying to acknowledge that one needs to position themselves to have enough power to actually make a change. 

Sometimes you have to break something first to fix it. If your plumping behind the shower is broken, you can't build your walls and floors stronger to really fix the problem, you have to go at it with a sledgehammer first!


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## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

To pile on to what Badsanta is saying, a lot of times in order to be able to see a path to fix the relationship, you have to understand that 1.) you may have to lose the relationship, 2.) know that you will be ok without the relationship, and 3.) make the other person understand that you have achieved #1 and #2.

So while first advice might seem to be "get out" - the PREPARING to get out can be the driver for making everything whole again.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

You're wrong you know. A lot of times the advice is to man up. Speaking of which, I read your other thread...


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

bob1471 said:


> Don't mean to be rude and appreciate everyones times giving their opinion but I've noticed that 99% of opinion on here is = get out while you can.
> 
> Fair enough. You might be right but its not always that easy.
> 
> ...


Your percentages are quite skewed, but in my TAM experience the quick, near universal "get out!" is typically reserved for unwed people who are clearly mismatched and still have a chance to avoid a potentially miserable marriage, or acute abusive situations.

Not even over at CWI, which is bleaksville, have I noticed anywhere near the universal "get out!" advise.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

It's very situational. Most of the time, people have already tried many things and can relate very predicatble patterns by the other person.
I'm pro-marriage, but I can see the bullets whizzing by peoples heads on a constant basis.

Best way to win a war is simply not show up.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

By the time someone posts their marital woes on a marriage forum, their marriage is likely already in serious turmoil. Often, they have already tried "almost everything" they can think of to turn things around, to no avail.

I think there's plenty of great advice here for improving marriages. In fact, I am often amazed by how many thoughtful, helpful suggestions are given.

But as neutral observers who aren't caught up emotionally in the middle of it, it's much easier for posters to "see" the issues from 50K feet up. And when it's obvious that the situation is dire, AND the OP has exhausted all their options, that's when people advise to get out.

Just my 2 cents...


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Personally, I think the ‘get out’ advice basically pays homage to the important rule in life; “You can only control and change yourself”. So, there is no magic pill to fix a spouse into the sort of person you want. They have to want to be that person. When there aren’t many signs, the advice will be to get out. We can spot the pacification and know from experience that once they feel secure… they are still the same person you came here with and you’ll be in no better shape and just as disappointed; only older and a with a few more scars.


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## dtc37 (Nov 18, 2014)

bob1471 said:


> Don't mean to be rude and appreciate everyones times giving their opinion but I've noticed that 99% of opinion on here is = get out while you can.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It all depends.. IMO I believe if you have a spouse/partner that takes from you more than they give then yes .. To clarify I believe anything in your life that takes more than it gives should not be in your life such as FOOD, FRIENDS, HABITS, TELEVISION .ect. It sounds kind of selfish but if you are letting a person suck the ENERGY out of you making your one and only life miserable and no matter how hard you try but you aren't getting anywhere then you NEED to let them go


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## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

altawa said:


> If I knew then what I know now, if I had access to this forum 14 years ago, I likely wouldn't be married right now.
> 
> Being 100% honest, there are days now that I feel trapped by my marriage. I feel like the advice to get away while you can is very valid, and wish somebody had given it to me way back when. So, since that wasn't the case, now I am here and if I see a case where that seems like the best route (and a lot of the times here, it is), I say it.
> 
> Honestly, a lot of the time, by the time somebody is to the point of creating an account and posting here, things are usually pretty bad....think about it. How bad do things in your marriage have to be before you start soliciting advice from anonymous people on the internet?


True enough...


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## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

dtc37 said:


> It all depends.. IMO I believe if you have a spouse/partner that takes from you more than they give then yes .. To clarify I believe anything in your life that takes more than it gives should not be in your life such as FOOD, FRIENDS, HABITS, TELEVISION .ect. It sounds kind of selfish but if you are letting a person suck the ENERGY out of you making your one and only life miserable and no matter how hard you try but you aren't getting anywhere then you NEED to let them go


This is good. I like this.

Thats maybe the problem. Does she take more than she gives? Sometimes definitely. Sometimes not. Its difficult to tell. Its far from ideal - I know that.

BUT, if we do split, will it be worse? Difficult one.

Sometimes as well, I know it is me over-analysing. Focusing too much on the negative etc. 

Suffered mental issues over the years so I know sometimes my thinking is not right. Sometimes I scare myself because I dont know if my gut feeling is real or in my head if you know what I mean. Over the years my head has definitely played around with me a bit. Irrational thoughts about all sorts (nothing to do with relationships etc - long story but they way new things and being out of my comfort zone make my spin is scary)

Anyone who's ever suffered depression/anxiety will maybe know what I mean. Sometimes its difficult to see the wood for the trees.

Not making excuses. I know my relationship is bad at times and I know my wife is a complete nightmare at times but, enough to split. Sometimes I just wish I could trust my feelings.


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## dtc37 (Nov 18, 2014)

The trick to get out of your own head is to practice meditation.. Look to yourself for your positive feelings. I recommend reading the book called THE POWER OF NOW. It will help getting out of your own head and open your eyes


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

bob1471 said:


> Don't mean to be rude and appreciate everyones times giving their opinion but I've noticed that 99% of opinion on here is = get out while you can.
> 
> Fair enough. You might be right but its not always that easy.
> 
> ...


Bob, it sounds like you and the posters of TAM are having serious problems.

Its important to remember that you're not going to change them- you can only change yourself.

You might want to consider a permanent separation. Getting out now will give you years to rebuild your life.

Separate from that, I consider the notion that 99% of advice given is to leave the relationship to be a silly idea without any merit whatsoever.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

I would say that everyone on TAM who says 'leave...get out...go...separate....divorce...' etc are all in very happy marriages.
They are on the same page as their partner, they have a very satisfying and fulfilling sex life....they are a real 'team' and family...like the ones you get in yoghurt or toothpaste commercials!

However, when you have been together 15-20 years, have a nice (paid off) house, two 'golden children', international holidays once a year, two cars, golden retriever etc etc getting up and leaving isn't all that easy. The price to pay is very high indeed.

Many of us in that situation simply resign ourselves to living in sexless marriages etc for the time being because if we leave we will lose too much.
So...we stay. But our time to leave will come..maybe once the children have left, when the house is paid for etc.


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## dtc37 (Nov 18, 2014)

askari said:


> I would say that everyone on TAM who says 'leave...get out...go...separate....divorce...' etc are all in very happy marriages.
> 
> They are on the same page as their partner, they have a very satisfying and fulfilling sex life....they are a real 'team' and family...like the ones you get in yoghurt or toothpaste commercials!
> 
> ...



Not true at all.. the people on TAM that say get out tell you to get out because they learned the hard way. They're speaking from experience not because they are happy in their marriage but because they made the mistake of staying and prolonging their misery.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

ET1SSJonota said:


> To pile on to what Badsanta is saying, a lot of times in order to be able to see a path to fix the relationship, you have to understand that 1.) you may have to lose the relationship, 2.) know that you will be ok without the relationship, and 3.) make the other person understand that you have achieved #1 and #2.
> 
> *So while first advice might seem to be "get out" - the PREPARING to get out can be the driver for making everything whole again.*


This!

Many marriages could be saved if the unhappy spouse followed this advice BEFORE they got the true end. 

If you want to save your marriage you have to be willing to walk away. Nothing you can say or do communicates the depth of commitment to NOT continuing in misery better than a packed bag.


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## dtc37 (Nov 18, 2014)

Loosing half of everything is what you signed up for when getting married. Those are just material tangible items.. If you can live in a loveless emotionless marriage and still hold it together for the rest of your life. I envy you.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

askari said:


> I would say that everyone on TAM who says 'leave...get out...go...separate....divorce...' etc are all in very happy marriages.
> They are on the same page as their partner, they have a very satisfying and fulfilling sex life....they are a real 'team' and family...like the ones you get in yoghurt or toothpaste commercials!
> 
> However, when you have been together 15-20 years, have a nice (paid off) house, two 'golden children', international holidays once a year, two cars, golden retriever etc etc getting up and leaving isn't all that easy. The price to pay is very high indeed.
> ...


The price you're willing to pay says more about how deeply you care about having a good marriage.

The price you're willing to pay is also the price you're enforcing on your spouse for failure to help make the marriage work.

I get that men feel they always end up with the short end of the stick (and please please let's not side track on the merits of that belief) but the women are ALSO cutting their household expenses and are also going to have to financial restructure, possibly go without something's too.

So are you willing to put your money where your mouth is and demonstrate just how important this is to you? If she willing to also put her money where her mouth is and go it alone in order NOT to work on the marriage?

When two people divorce, they both are affected.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Anon Pink said:


> If you want to save your marriage you have to be willing to walk away.


In all most all cases, this is exactly correct when dealing with a serious marital issue. Be it cheating, addictions, abuse, financial suicide..... But the key word in it is "willing". It took me a long time to recognize that and the decision to enforce a boundary I was not willing to compromise on was difficult. To get there you need to mentally look at what the aftermath will be like. In preparing for the conversation I had to mentally walk through that door and if I drew the line in the sand and she responded with "**** You!" I would have to be fine with it. I was and I gained a tremendous amount of empowerment from it. I was still scared as hell that the marriage might end but I was willing to take the risk and would be fine with the out come. I had in my mind done everything within my power to change the course of the marriage. It had been 16 months since D-Day and the EA had just restarted again.

The "I'll walk if..." power play will generally either be a trump card or a death card and as such, should be weighed carefully. Once decided that it is the correct way to proceed, it needs to be planned. It's not something to be thrown out in the heat of an argument. In our case, it was a quiet conversation, in our bedroom, away from the kids. It took no longer than 15 minutes and she understood where I was coming from. I was in "business" mode, as unemotional as I could be. In my opinion, this is the correct way to handle the "time to get out scenario". Flying off the handle without a clear plan will likely not end well. And once played, you need to be ready to follow through with out question or regret.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> In all most all cases, this is exactly correct when dealing with a serious marital issue. Be it cheating, addictions, abuse, financial suicide..... But the key word in it is "willing". It took me a long time to recognize that and the decision to enforce a boundary I was not willing to compromise on was difficult. To get there you need to mentally look at what the aftermath will be like. In preparing for the conversation I had to mentally walk through that door and if I drew the line in the sand and she responded with "**** You!" I would have to be fine with it. I was and I gained a tremendous amount of empowerment from it. I was still scared as hell that the marriage might end but I was willing to take the risk and would be fine with the out come. I had in my mind done everything within my power to change the course of the marriage. It had been 16 months since D-Day and the EA had just restarted again.
> 
> The "I'll walk if..." power play will generally either be a trump card or a death card and as such, should be weighed carefully. Once decided that it is the correct way to proceed, it needs to be planned. It's not something to be thrown out in the heat of an argument. In our case, it was a quiet conversation, in our bedroom, away from the kids. It took no longer than 15 minutes and she understood where I was coming from. I was in "business" mode, as unemotional as I could be. In my opinion, this is the correct way to handle the "time to get out scenario". Flying off the handle without a clear plan will likely not end well. And once played, you need to be ready to follow through with out question or regret.


:iagree:

This is basically what I am trying to say too....that leaving, walking, divorcing etc is not an easy decision to make. Infact its probably a very tough one indeed. Life changing. Some people - like me for the time being - feel that the price to pay is too high at the moment.
But when the time is right we (I) will go.

I find TAM a great place to come and 'vent'....Its good to come across other people in the same position and yes its good to have some support and 'understanding' from others.

I also try to write constructive posts...some that will make people laugh or atleast smile.

Sometimes life can be so $hitty...laughing or smiling AND venting on here helps.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

dtc37 said:


> Loosing half of everything is what you signed up for when getting married. Those are just material tangible items.. If you can live in a loveless emotionless marriage and still hold it together for the rest of your life. I envy you.


Well this where in the end it comes down to individual choice and I agree. Divorce is hard and not easy. for me what is far more difficult would be living in an emotionless and sexless marriage. About the only thing I would think could make me stay in a marriage like that is if I lived somewhere in the world where I would 100% loose my kids. Then I would stay. Lucky for me I don't.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I have to agree with the OP. There are many people, myself included, who are in a situation where getting out makes your life worse (thanks to the current wat divorce is set up in out society) and therefore not an option. Believe me, if there was a way to leave where I could still be an everyday part of my kid's lives and not have to give 70% of everything to her I would have done it 20 years ago. I would like to see more discussion on what you can do if divorce isn't an option for you and fixing the relationship also won't work and something your spouse isn't willing to negotiate.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Advising someone to get out of the relationship is not at all the same as turning their back on their partner, and as long as they can't make that distinction, untangling the codependency is universally the best advice.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

jb02157 said:


> I have to agree with the OP. There are many people, myself included, who are in a situation where getting out makes your life worse (thanks to the current wat divorce is set up in out society) and therefore not an option. Believe me, if there was a way to leave where I could still be an everyday part of my kid's lives and not have to give 70% of everything to her I would have done it 20 years ago. I would like to see more discussion on what you can do if divorce isn't an option for you and fixing the relationship also won't work and something your spouse isn't willing to negotiate.


In cases like yours, "getting out" may not mean abandoning ship, it may just mean emotionally detaching from a toxic person. Ultimately it's your life to live however you choose.


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

jb02157 said:


> I have to agree with the OP. There are many people, myself included, who are in a situation where getting out makes your life worse (thanks to the current wat divorce is set up in out society) and therefore not an option. Believe me, if there was a way to leave where I could still be an everyday part of my kid's lives and not have to give 70% of everything to her I would have done it 20 years ago. I would like to see more discussion on what you can do if divorce isn't an option for you and fixing the relationship also won't work and something your spouse isn't willing to negotiate.


This is why men unhappy in their marriages have affairs.

When push comes to shove, they really have nothing to lose, especially in no-fault states.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Constable Odo said:


> This is why men unhappy in their marriages have affairs.
> 
> When push comes to shove, they really have nothing to lose, especially in no-fault states.


True, but if you get caught (and practically everyone does at some point) you still face divorce and losing the kids.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> True, but if you get caught (and practically everyone does at some point) you still face divorce and losing the kids.


And now have the stigma of being a cheating spouse. Because your spouse can : neglect you, verbally abuse, mentally abuse, withhold affection and sex then the moment you cheat it becomes all about that. Your set up for a loosing situation


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

jb02157 said:


> True, but if you get caught (and practically everyone does at some point) you still face divorce and losing the kids.


Compared to what? living a miserable existence? Do you think there's a special sainthood you have bestowed on you when you die?

"here lays jb... he was miserable in his marriage, but sacrificed all for his children" ?

Let me tell you... kids know if their parents hate one another, or are miserable.

By staying in a loveless marriage with a woman, you're likely destroying your childrens' chances of having a normal relationship, because they are going to imprint their ideals/expectations/etc about what a "normal" relationship is with a woman based upon your interaction with your wife.


So, do them, and you, a favor, and get out, regardless of the cost.


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## Sandie (Mar 31, 2015)

It's not even CLOSE to 99% get out.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Constable Odo said:


> This is why men unhappy in their marriages have affairs.
> 
> When push comes to shove, they really have nothing to lose, especially in no-fault states.


They have their integrity and dignity to lose. If they were really in such a bad marriage, with wives that were not willing to work on it but neither agree to end it, then there is still the choice for them to denounce their vows and declare an open marriage, rather than sneak around behind their wives' back.


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

Lon said:


> If they were really in such a bad marriage, with wives that were not willing to work on it but neither agree to end it, then there is still the choice for them to denounce their vows and declare an open marriage, rather than sneak around behind their wives' back.


I believe in truly bad marriages, where both spouses have given up and are simply going through the motions or stay together for financial/political reasons, they have a "dont ask, dont tell" policy.

Look at Bill and Hillary as an example.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

bob1471 said:


> Don't mean to be rude and appreciate everyones times giving their opinion but I've noticed that 99% of opinion on here is = get out while you can.
> 
> Fair enough. You might be right but its not always that easy.
> 
> ...


I do not think your rude at all. I think tho that people only say get out as they have had previous experience.... like me.... and for me it was the best thing i ever did... My only regret is that i never listened to my mum when she told me about 5 years before i did... 

She was right when she said "get out while you can" I went on to have more children with my ex, and they deserved so much better than the father they got and i deserved more than i got too.... I know that may sound harsh, but he never was and still is not what you call a good dad... Kids always last on his priorities. 

Its NEVER easy, but sometimes, and more often than not it is the best thing to do.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Constable Odo said:


> I believe in truly bad marriages, where both spouses have given up and are simply going through the motions or stay together for financial/political reasons, they have a "dont ask, dont tell" policy.
> 
> Look at Bill and Hillary as an example.


But then there is the risk that while one spouse assumes that is the state of the marriage, they do not realize their spouse is still vested and adultery is still a betrayal of trust. Rarely do both spouses decay at the same rate, betrayals are always unilateral.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

bob1471 said:


> Don't mean to be rude and appreciate everyones times giving their opinion but I've noticed that 99% of opinion on here is = get out while you can.
> 
> Fair enough. You might be right but its not always that easy.
> 
> ...


I don't know about 99%, but I know what you mean. When I first joined, i was surprised at all the posts that condoned divorce when there really wasn't anything like cheating or abuse going on; instead, somebody was just unhappy.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Constable Odo said:


> I believe in truly bad marriages, where both spouses have given up and are simply going through the motions or stay together for financial/political reasons, they have a "dont ask, dont tell" policy.
> 
> Look at Bill and Hillary as an example.


I would love to get out of my marriage, but have no interest in dealing with all of the extraneous stuff that goes with that (selling the house, splitting kids, telling family and friends, etc). No interest from me in meeting any other women (she's driven my sex drive way down), and know she won't should it come to that (no man wants to be involved with a woman that is asexual, lazy, and overweight). I just stick it out for the kids - just get along/go along and put my foot down when necessary.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

ChargingCharlie said:


> I would love to get out of my marriage, but have no interest in dealing with all of the extraneous stuff that goes with that (selling the house, splitting kids, telling family and friends, etc). No interest from me in meeting any other women (she's driven my sex drive way down), and know she won't should it come to that (no man wants to be involved with a woman that is asexual, lazy, and overweight). I just stick it out for the kids - just get along/go along and put my foot down when necessary.


As long as your partner is OK with the status quo, there are no assumptions being made by either of you, you have openly talked together about only sticking together for the kids and the goal is still mutually agreed upon, then that is perfectly fine. But considering you say you'd "love to get out" I suspect that neither of you are happy about the status quo? You think both of you being perpetually unhappy is a good condition to raise your children? Does your W ever nag you to do things, get frustrated or express displeasure towards you?


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Lon said:


> As long as your partner is OK with the status quo, there are no assumptions being made by either of you, you have openly talked together about only sticking together for the kids and the goal is still mutually agreed upon, then that is perfectly fine. But considering you say you'd "love to get out" I suspect that neither of you are happy about the status quo? You think both of you being perpetually unhappy is a good condition to raise your children? Does your W ever nag you to do things, get frustrated or express displeasure towards you?


Never talked about it - she's fine insofar as she has me around to help with the kids. She will get upset (she's easily stressed out around them), but I've learned to bite back when I deem it appropriate (in the past I would never bite back which is not a good idea).

We really don't communicate well (and this is probably more my fault as I keep a lot inside, been that way my whole life) - however, I will say that I don't communicate well with her because to me, dealing with her is like dealing with a 12 year old, in that she's very immature. For example, I can't stand her sister (total drama queen), and the wife knows this (nobody else can stand her either). However, I can't say anything to the wife about this, as she'll get upset. Easier for me to just keep my mouth shut when her sister is brought up. 

Again, I'm just in it for the kids. Better if I'm around a lot and I can take them places by myself so they get my influence instead of Mommy who is easily stressed out and tends to swear in front of them. If we split up, then Lord only knows what she would say about me and my family (as mentioned, she's very immature).


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Divorce is often necessary. Marriage seldom is.
Divorce often solves problems. Marriage often creates them.

The above may be a little cynical, but that's not the same as being wrong!


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Never talked about it - she's fine insofar as she has me around to help with the kids. She will get upset (she's easily stressed out around them), but I've learned to bite back when I deem it appropriate (in the past I would never bite back which is not a good idea).
> 
> We really don't communicate well (and this is probably more my fault as I keep a lot inside, been that way my whole life) - however, I will say that I don't communicate well with her because to me, dealing with her is like dealing with a 12 year old, in that she's very immature. For example, I can't stand her sister (total drama queen), and the wife knows this (nobody else can stand her either). However, I can't say anything to the wife about this, as she'll get upset. Easier for me to just keep my mouth shut when her sister is brought up.
> 
> Again, I'm just in it for the kids. Better if I'm around a lot and I can take them places by myself so they get my influence instead of Mommy who is easily stressed out and tends to swear in front of them. If we split up, then Lord only knows what she would say about me and my family (as mentioned, she's very immature).


Sounds like she is one of the kids you feel compelled to stick around for. Doing so is not helping any of you, she is an adult and is responsible for her own behaviors, you putting up with her immaturity instead of actually trying to improve your situation so that you are a healthier stronger person for yourself and your kids is all on you. I will also say, as immature as she may be, she sounds vested in the marriage and has no idea you are checked out of it - I can't tell you enough how much harm you are causing her, she is not going to heal from whatever problems she is already trying to face alone, and pile on a dysfunctional relationship with her kids father who doesn't seem like he is really interested in HER, sure isn't going to get either of you farther ahead.

I'm not trying to be preachy or judgemental, I'm just trying to help you see her perspective better, as well as from the perspective of someone that got out of a dysfunctional marriage (but never realized my ex spouse was so happy until the damages were done).


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