# Lost and confused need advice.



## voryn (Jun 13, 2011)

My W and are going through a trial seperation. briefly i'll try to recap the situation. We've been married for 7 years, in the second year of our marriage she quit her job and we got pregnant. Our daughter was born and she's the brightest star in our sky. My wife continued to be depressed and unhappy. She was soo depressed that she claimed it prevented her from working a job. So I put my nose down and worked harder to keep the ship afloat.

We reached critical mass and when I had to start making decisions like whether to pay the credit card bills or buy diapers and baby food I had to throw in the towl financially and file bankruptcy.

A few years back the W was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. albeit a higher functioning borderline. She masked it pretty well with strangers and in her social ficade. I helped out regularly with our D's diapers feeding cooking cleaning all of it i kept my sanity by telling my self that my W couldn't help it she had a disorder that made her this way and it's my job to take care of her.

Skip ahead 5 years my wife never got a job never did any work again. I tried to support us, because I was always told that's what the husband does. She had stopped cooking regularly, never dusted or vacuumed, never cleaned up after herself in the bathroom or kitchen, and yet she continued to expect me to do everything i'd been doing as a husband and provider heaping on top of that i had to come home to a dirty house. no food cooked. attention starved daughter and the W would then ask me to help out more at home. Like I didn't already have enought to do. 

My sex drive was dead I had no desire to have sex with her she had stopped taking care of her body along with her mental health. But if i refused to have sex with her she would turn her mega guilt beam on me and blast away, so to avoid the guilt trip i would just give in and give unto her what she needed from me, even if i wasn't in the mood for it. for to refuse her would send her into another depression.

all of this, that had happened before i was handling and dealing with and getting her to improve on things in small doses so I had a good feeling about things. untill last Oct. I found out my wife was having a virtual affair with a man she met in one of her online mmo video games. We are both gamers but I handle my gaming responsibly she does not. I discovered the affair and was beside myself with shock, resentment, and anger. I confronted her on multiple occastions to give her a chance to come clean and tell me what was going on and she lied to me 3 times to my face about him.

at that point I informed her that the gig was up and I knew everything and that I had chat logs and emails that I had taken off of her computer. We had a long talk and she expressed her love for me and how this other guy meant nothing...she told me she'd drop him , no problem and that we coudl start again. all of that sounded great and I believed her.

My problem now is that I want to believe her and I want to trust her but I'm having issues with trusting her now. I'm having feelings of resentment towards her soo much so that when I came home from work i'd be depressed to see her...eventually this erroded our communication skills and on June 23rd this year I told her that I wasn't sure If I still loved her anymore. i sited all the reasons and the whys i expressed my lack of trust in her my resentment to her inablity to take care of herself emotionally and physically. She wanted to move out and so i drove her to her grandmothers and she's been there since.

I did a lot of soul searching, i've read a lot of books on dealing with loved ones who have bpd i've read relationship books on communicating better with your spouse, i've gone to a counselor to discuss my issues. and we are still talking and I see my daughter on the weekends and recently the W and I have started having weekly "dates" but the problem is she feels the spark we once had but I do not. I tell her what she needs to hear to keep her positive but I still don't truely feel in love with her anymore. I don't know what to do. I don't know if I want to divorce her. I know I love my daughter and i care deeply for my w but my attraction to her is non-existant.

She's been working on her self too she's been seeing a therapist for her BPD condition and seems more level headed and in control of her emotions with the occasional slip up here and there and yet i still don't have those "lets move back in together " feelings. Will I ever have them? Will I ever trust her again?

she wants to have dinner tonight and discuss her moving back in in a few weeks and im freaking out about that. I don't know what to say or how to say it or even if i should say it. maybe letting her back in would help me trust her again? I need advice on that.


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## jason29927 (Aug 1, 2011)

If I were you, I wouldn't force myself into any situation or to try to feel something you don't feel. Be honest with her. She needs to understand the situation clearly. Tell her it's not impossible, but that you aren't there yet and it's going to take some time.

Have you gone to therapy together? That may help.


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## voryn (Jun 13, 2011)

jason29927 said:


> If I were you, I wouldn't force myself into any situation or to try to feel something you don't feel. Be honest with her. She needs to understand the situation clearly. Tell her it's not impossible, but that you aren't there yet and it's going to take some time.
> 
> Have you gone to therapy together? That may help.


she had suggested it and I'm not opposed to it but I read in several sources that someone with BPD (borderline Personality) tend to not benifit from MC. They put on their game faces and tell you what you want to hear to manipulate situations. So I'm sceptical about that approach.


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## jason29927 (Aug 1, 2011)

IMO, I don't think it can hurt. The rest of my advice I'll stick with... don't try to force yourself.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I am a high functioning BPD'er. Guess I lucked out that I also have OCD. I treated my SO like crap for the last 6yrs. I finally hit rock bottom and got help. He and I are still together. There is hope if she is truly trying. Best of luck to you. 


You might also contact a user named Uptown on here. He was married to a BPD wife and he has wonderful insight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## voryn (Jun 13, 2011)

pidge70 said:


> I am a high functioning BPD'er. Guess I lucked out that I also have OCD. I treated my SO like crap for the last 6yrs. I finally hit rock bottom and got help. He and I are still together. There is hope if she is truly trying. Best of luck to you.
> 
> 
> You might also contact a user named Uptown on here. He was married to a BPD wife and he has wonderful insight.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you Pidge I may do that, it's truely a complicated situation. You never really understand unless you live through it and I know things are equally complicated and confusing for her. Did you and your SO do a trial seperation? did it help any? or what about MC did that help?


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

No, we never separated. My story is on here in the Coping with Infidelity Forum. I did IC for myself, no MC. 

BPD is hard on everyone. I was horrible for years. I hated to see him enjoy anything. I felt like how come he can be happy and I can't? I finally realized it was because I chose to. I'm not saying you have to try with your wife. If my SO had left me I would have understood. I wish you all the best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## voryn (Jun 13, 2011)

ok so all that being said...we had our date night. She got drunk and proceeded to drop hints around and flirt with me about having sex. Like everything's ok between us. She wanted to go by the house and pick up some things and stuff so i said ok fine. 

We get there and i go to the mens room and when i come out she's naked in our bed...ok now I'm totally not in the mood for this...im not intoxicated like she is and I hate it when she's drunk and we make out she gets sloppy and messy it's not at all what I find sexy or attractive...but I run through the usual scenarios in my head of what will happen if i say "no" and what will happen if i say "yes".

So I said "yes" and it was lackluster for me but she had a blast of course...now my question to all of you...if I was feeling how i felt and not interested, does that mean that I no longer love my wife? I don't understand, should I have told her I didn't want to have sex? would that have been the better choice? Am I being a bastard for letting her think that everythings ok just because im trying to give her time to get her BPD condition under control?

in the past, when I turned down sex due to not being in the mood or what have you , she'd turn it around into some kind of guilt trip "what's wrong with her" conversation that would make me seriously uncomfortable...I mean can't a guy just not feel like having sex some times...i feel like im not allowed to say no to sex if im not in the mood or don't want to have it.

I'm sorting through my feelings and trying to decide if what I feel for her is love or obligation...if it's the latter then things are worse than i feared but im soo screwed up in my head that I can't tell what I feel anymore...im going crazy. sorry for the ramble 8(


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

@voryn. No, it is not unusual for a man not to want to have sex with someone who they are having problems with. The same thing is happening to me. I think I know what you are concerned about. You are probably thinking that you would dive head first into a bed with an attractive woman you don't know so why can't I do this with her. Well, it's normal for a man to feel this way, don't worry yourself sick over it. Whent he time is right, if you two have fixed some of your issues, you will come around.

I would have a talk with her and let her know exactly how you feel. She has to understand that you need affection and love and respect as well as intimacy from her. Do not talk to her until she is sober though, she has to be able to sensibly process what you are saying. I mean, will she have sex with you when she is perfectly sober? It's a question to ask her so she can understand where you are coming from. If you both want to make things work, ask her to be patient with you. Just be honest with her and I think she will understand. Ask her to empathies with you and that you want to make love to her not just have meaningless sex - with her that is.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

voryn said:


> A few years back the W was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. albeit a higher functioning borderline.


Voryn, most folks diagnosed with BPD are high functioning. Yet, for several reasons, it is unusual for a therapist to tell a HF BPDer (person with strong BPD traits) that she has that disorder. One reason is that a HF BPDer almost certainly will immediately terminate therapy on hearing that dreaded diagnosis. Even if they do not quit, it is rare for a HF BPDer to stay in therapy long enough to make a difference. My exW, for example, went to weekly therapy for 19 years with six different psychologists -- at enormous expense to me. Because BPDers are unstable, they are always "improving" every two or three weeks -- the same way that smokers are always quitting just as frequently. In retrospect, I can see that my exW never improved. On the contrary, she got worse because she never was willing to confront her illness and start managing it.


> She masked it pretty well with strangers and in her social ficade.


HF BPDers typically can interact very well all day long with business associates, casual friends, and complete strangers. None of those folks pose a threat to the BPDer's two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. Namely, there is no close LTR to be abandoned. And there is no intimacy that could cause engulfment and suffocation. Only loved ones can trigger those two fears. This is why it is common for a HF BPDer to be caring and generous all day long to strangers and then go home that night to verbally abuse the very people who love her.


> I helped out regularly with our D's diapers feeding cooking cleaning all of it i kept my sanity by telling my self that my W couldn't help it she had a disorder that made her this way and it's my job to take care of her.


Big mistake. Granted, it is not her fault that she acquired the disorder in early childhood. It is her fault, however, that she refuses -- every day -- to accept responsibility for her own actions. Instead, she chooses to think of herself as "the victim," always the victim. Her only chance of having to confront her issues and start learning how to control them is for you to hold her fully accountable for all of her bad behavior -- including her laziness and verbal abuse. Of course, if you had been doing this, she likely would have walked out and left you years ago. 

Hence, by choosing to keep walking on eggshells to avoid triggering her anger, you have been harming her by allowing this adult woman to continue behaving like a spoiled young child who feels entitled to everything you do for her. For that reason, and because her reality consists of whatever intense feeling she is experiencing at the moment, she likely is incapable of appreciating your gifts and sacrifices. This is why, with a HF BPDer, it's always "What have you done for me lately."


> She had stopped cooking regularly, never dusted or vacuumed, never cleaned up after herself in the bathroom or kitchen, and yet she continued to expect me to do everything i'd been doing as a husband and provider heaping on top of that i had to come home to a dirty house. no food cooked.


Like I said, she feels she is entitled to whatever sacrifices you make. Even on those rare times when she does genuinely appreciate your gift, that feeling cannot last long because a BPDer cannot control her own emotions. She therefore will experience such an intense tide of feelings surging through her mind in a few days that it will wash away her appreciative feelings. Hence, trying to build up a store of good will (that could carry you through the bad times) is impossible with a BPDer. Trying to do so is the equivalent of building a sand castle beside the sea. It will be washed away by the next tide.


> My sex drive was dead I had no desire to have sex with her she had stopped taking care of her body along with her mental health. But if i refused to have sex with her she would turn her mega guilt beam on me and blast away, so to avoid the guilt trip i would just give in.


Because BPDers are EXTREMELY uncomfortable experiencing mixed feelings about anything, they usually do black-white thinking, wherein they categorize everyone as "all good" or "all bad." This is why -- following a five hour temper tantrum -- your W can flip, in ten seconds, from hating you to loving you again. My exW, for example, would do that, suddenly wanting to jump into bed with me. Yet, because I was in touch with all of my feelings (including the searing, hateful image of her cussing me out for hours), it would be several days (sometimes weeks) before I had any desire to have sex with her again. Because she had no idea that most people cannot suddenly lose all contact with their bad feelings, she was often accusing me of "holding a grudge" and "putting up a wall."


> My problem now is that I want to believe her and I want to trust her but I'm having issues with trusting her now.


Because BPDers are so unstable that they cannot trust themselves, they typically are incapable of trusting a spouse for any extended period. Significantly, when a woman cannot trust you, you cannot trust her because she can turn on you at any time, suddenly believing you are the devil incarnate. Hence, even if the virtual affair had never occurred, it would be unwise for you to trust a BPDer who has not had several years of treatment. This deficit does not bode well for your marriage because such a relationship -- and friendships as well -- must be built on a foundation of trust.


> I'm having feelings of resentment towards her soo much so that when I came home from work i'd be depressed to see her...eventually this eroded our communication skills.


A lack of communication skills is the least of your problems, IMO. If that was all you had to deal with, the two of you could go to a MC to learn such skills. With a HF BPDer, however, MC usually is ineffective because the issues are far more serious and difficult to treat. She must learn how to do self soothing; how to intellectually challenge her intense feelings instead of accepting them as truths; how to trust herself and you; and how to stop the black-white thinking. To do any of those things, she first must acquire sufficient self awareness to recognize her issues -- and acquire sufficient ego strength to be willing to handle the pain and fear of doing therapy.


> I still don't have those "lets move back in together " feelings. Will I ever have them? Will I ever trust her again?


I don't know. What I do know is that it is going to be very difficult, with an emotionally unstable W, for you to know when she is actually improving. As I noted earlier, unstable folks "get better" every few weeks but it rarely lasts. 

In my case, I patiently spent a small fortune on my exW's therapy sessions for 15 years. During the first half of that period, I knew she was not getting better but I figured that -- in stirring up her painful childhood memories of sexual abuse -- she would have to get worse before getting better. As to the last half of that period, I simply deceived myself into thinking that she seemed to be getting a little better. That fantasy was eventually crushed when, after deciding to divorce me, she had me arrested on a bogus charge so she could keep me out of my own home during the 18 months it takes to get a divorce here. If you would like to read more about my experiences with a BPDer exW, you may want to look at my posts in Blacksmith's thread. They start at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-complicated-marriage-dynamic.html#post358403. Take care, Voryn.


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