# Guidance in leaving for the third time...



## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

Hello,

I have an extensive history bringing me to the decision of wanting to leave my marriage. I have worked on myself for several years with a psychologist in order to help me determine this is what I really want and need for my life.

I am a person that has extreme difficulty with hurting others to the point of allowing it to harm myself instead.

Over the past year I have made 2 attempts at leaving, this is the hardest thing I've had to do in my entire life and I've done it twice already and have gone back out of guilt for my wife and the pain it is causing her...

The last time I set out to make a exceptional effort to try and find reasons to stay other than my guilt for her and the kids but I am not able to, I am even going through the book "too good to leave too bad to stay" in hopes that it will bring even more clarity to my decision (I do however know it is clear) but at least to say I did all I could.

I am now at a point that the longer I wait the worst it is for her and for me because it is delaying the moving on phase. She is extremely emotionally problematic and has been since we've been together. It is soo difficult for me to know the amount of pain she is having and will have once I leave again (for good), she demonstrates so much love but dependence on me that it tears me up just knowing the pain it will cause...

Has anyone gone through similar situations where you left and came back for guilt's sake and then finally left for good... how did you approach it for the last time? how was it received? She's even told me after I came back that if I tried to leave again... she wouldn't leave me go...

I am trapped and need help making this step again...

I know it's my bad for coming back each time... but I just have such a hard time with the guilt...

Thanks for your support!!


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

You’ve been posting about your crazy wife since 2011.Are we supposed to believe that you are really going to actually do something instead of talking about it?
If you’re going to leave then leave.
But you’re not are you?


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

I read some of your old threads, and it sounds like your marriage has been rife with passiveness on your part and manipulation and passive aggressiveness, with outright agressiveness on your wife's part.

You have been very unhappy in the marriage for many years. Has your wife expressed what makes her unhappy? Do the two of you talk openly about how the two of you feel, and do you do this when there is not a crisis or problem happening?

You stopped going to the church where the two of you met. You said that you met her there when you were a new believer (in Christ) and that she had grown up in that church. You became very involved, having many roles over the years, feeling taken advantage of, and disappointed in God for not answering your prayers for your marriage.

You set your foot down regarding going to that church, and although your wife and children continue going there, your wife's behavior changed for the better, and you rightfully wondered if the changes would last, or if they were temporary. Did they last?

Did you learn that when you make a change, your wife makes a change? Someone suggested on another thread that you suggest to your wife that you all go to another church, and you responded that you didn't want your wife and children to go to a different church. Why? It does sound like the church you used to go to, and which your wife still goes to, is kind of like a cult. They use scriptures to force their 'rules' on people and control people.


"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8 King James Version (KJV)

Churches that are legalistic and manipulative miss this part of Jesus' reason for dying for our sins. He died because people aren't capable of keeping rules in order to be able to stand sinless before God. They say that to be holy is to follow all kinds of rules, for dress, for food, for holy days, for language, for how women behave, for how men behave, etc. etc. The only commandments that matter, according to Jesus, is 1. To love God and 2. To love your neighbor. Everything works itself out if you do these two sincerely.

Do you want your children to grow up and be messed up like your wife? I would suggest that you find a good church that doesn't have tons of rules or activities, and which encourages people to live in the joy of Jesus, instead of by lots of rules, church busyness and mind control.

When you quit going to your wife's church, was your motive to not fellowship with any Christians anymore, or to just get out of the bondage of that group of people? If you are not wanting anything to do with any Christians, then I believe you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater. There are groups of Christians that worship and fellowship together who don't want to get in each other's business beyond worshipping together and praying for each other, according to each other's requests.

You know that 'Iron sharpens iron.' Prov. 27:17 You need the understanding and support of like minded people for prayer and encouragement. I understand how it feels to be discouraged by how some people may behave, even if they are Christians. But Christians are people, and they can be blind, selfish, fearful, and mean just like anyone else. Some churches attract people who need what that particular church is offering. In your case, your church offered controlling rules, and people who like rules stay in churches like that. You don't like what that church offered so you left when you got strong enough to leave. There are many people who don't want rules and mind control, and they are in churches where that doesn't happen. Find one of those churches. Find a church where the pastor is a regular guy who loves to study the scriptures and share is knowledge, but who isn't interested in controlling people.

As the leader and protector of your household, why don't you have a talk with your wife and tell her your concerns and your desire for your family to attend a healthy church, that divides the word of God rightly?

Charles Spurgeon said, "Discernment is not a matter of simply telling the difference between what is right and wrong; rather it is the difference between right and almost right." 

Many people get led astray because they don't have discernment. The church your wife goes to takes advantage of those people. Be a Berean. The Holy Spirit doesn't give understanding to everyone except for strat-guy. Tell your wife that. The people who are twisting scriptures in her church can go to hell (literally) for twisting the scriptures. Maybe someone needs to tell them to "go to hell!" for leading people astray.

Before you divorce your wife, find a church that uses the Bible as a way to guide people to find the joy of Christ's gift and love, instead of as a rule book to run people's lives. Ask your wife to go there with you and the children, and give herself a chance to get used to not having a church have a hold on her.

Keep going to counseling. Insist on your wife going to counseling. Tell her that you mean it, and if she doesn't that you will continue to proceed with the divorce process. Tell her that if you divorce, your children will go to the church of YOUR choice when they are with you, so there is no way she is going to continue to have that control over everyone's lives no matter what she does.

Stand up for what you believe.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Your poor children, they must be so confused and unhappy. As must she. 
Have you made good arrangements to see them regularly?
What reason have you for abandoning your family?


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## irish925 (May 3, 2018)

Wait...is this the next season opener for Rick and Morty?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

@Araucaria has given you the very good skinny on where you are. It is good guidance for either leaving, or staying.



Araucaria said:


> Be a Berean.


 (see Acts 17:11)

Luke the Physician wrote in his account of the Apostolic activities _"...(the Bereans)... received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."_

The Apostle Paul wrote to Timothy, his "son" in the faith: (see II Timothy 2:15)

_Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth._

The old-English word "study" is translated as "be diligent". Seek to lead your wife in the faith.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Statistics show that it takes an abused woman 7 times to leave her abusive husband/boyfriend. After finally making the decision to leave, they go back, then leave again because the abuse continues, and then leave again, and they repeat this pattern six times before leaving for the 7th and final time. The pattern of leaving is fewer for some women than others, but stats are based on the majority.

I'm thinking that maybe it might help you to communicate with some of these women and know their stories. I had no problem leaving my abusive boyfriend and left in less than 3 months, rather than spending years with him and the abuse. When I was in counseling for domestic abuse, it was the group sessions I found most helpful. Hearing stories from others about their strength and survival were very encouraging and also helped me to be a strong survivor. They held a tremendous amount of guilt for breaking their family apart after spending years of abuse for the sake of keeping their family together. So, perhaps you can derive strength in their stories.

I don't personally know of any support group sites to suggest, but you might want to google "support groups for survivors of domestic violence" and see what you come up with. You might also check YouTube for videos from survivors themselves. There are lots of them there. I don't know your story, so I'm not saying are a victim of abuse. I'm only suggesting this because asked for help with the guilt of leaving and staying away.

Other than that, you have been seeing a psychologist for a long time with no results since you still haven't been able to accomplish the goal, so it looks like time to find a different counselor. Some are more effective than others. Maybe also find a support group for your particular type of emotional malady. I mean one with people who have been able to accomplish what they thought was extremely difficult.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

Hey thanks for all your responses.

I appreciate the reminders, I am not at the point where I need help deciding, my mind has been made up for a fairly long time as one has mentioned. I can't say that I've done nothing since I've already left twice, and almost left once more in between. Each of those times I did the noble thing and told her in person, talked to the kids to reassure them none was their fault... And all that I needed to do to do as little damage as possible...

The first time I was only gone one night and felt so bad that I came back the next morning, the last time I was gone for 5 days but what has happened is that as the days went on we were still in contact for the kids but I know she wanted to keep trying to get me to come back. I'm her life, she depends on me for almost everything from being happy to basic emotional support so my leaving is a total blow to this mechanism that's I allowed to run for way to long...

When I came back I told her that I didn't want it to be for the wrong reasons. This has been a guiding post for me over the past months, the reason I came back and am staying til now is because I feel bad for her and of course the kids, I see her face and how excruciatingly crushed she is as I tell her once again that I'm leaving, I see the shame she will have of being separated, I see the tears she will have... I know the kids will be ok as I've had some of the conversations with them last time I left...

So now for round three or four I am having such a hard time initiating this amount of pain again for all of us but I know I need to... Do I tell her in person again? Do I call her so I don't have to see the pain she will have again... Do I stay stuck again and forget about myself forever....

Not as easy to do but it is what it is...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

strat_guy said:


> Hey thanks for all your responses.
> 
> I appreciate the reminders, I am not at the point where I need help deciding, my mind has been made up for a fairly long time as one has mentioned. I can't say that I've done nothing since I've already left twice, and almost left once more in between. Each of those times I did the noble thing and told her in person, talked to the kids to reassure them none was their fault... And all that I needed to do to do as little damage as possible...
> 
> ...


IF you are a Christian how do you justify abandoning your wife and children? Have you spend to the pastor?


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## Robbie1234 (Feb 8, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> IF you are a Christian how do you justify abandoning your wife and children?


Try reading some of his other posts and then judge. Not everyone has the same type of relationship as you and your husband.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> IF you are a Christian how do you justify abandoning your wife and children?


 "she depends on me for almost everything from being happy to basic emotional support"

Maybe she's sucking his soul into oblivion ...... Hard to say without much details.

though I'll say there is no such thing as a good reason to leave your children behind......
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit:

"I read some of your old threads, and it sounds like your marriage has been rife with passiveness on your part and manipulation and passive aggressiveness, with outright agressiveness on your wife's part."

Well that answers that !!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit #2

Here we go again with big spoonfuls of Jesus ....... Ohhh Brother


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Robbie1234 said:


> Try reading some of his other posts and then judge. Not everyone has the same type of relationship as you and your husband.


Nothing to do with me and my husband's marriage. He was married to his ex for 23 years never happy. His ex was controlling and manipulative. There is no way that he would have abandoned her and his boys, it just happens that she met another man and ended the marriage herself. 
For a Christian divorce is the last resort for the most serious issues such as cheating. 

I have no idea how anyone could ever leave their own children.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Mr.Married said:


> "she depends on me for almost everything from being happy to basic emotional support"
> 
> Maybe she's sucking his soul into oblivion ...... Hard to say without much details.
> 
> ...


He said they are church goers so its relevant.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

It sounds to me that this scenario is not healthy for anyone including your wife and children. YOU have to make that cut. As the song goes the first cut is the deepest but you will be doing all a favour by taking the first step and moving out for good. Then setting boundaries with contact, etc. Your wife might surprise you and decide to pull herself up by the boot straps and get back in the saddle of her own life.

I suspect you are overplaying your guilt and really dont have what it takes to proceed. You will be doing everyone a great favour, living in the current misery is terrible for all of you.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

If you had a son living in this situation, how would you advise him to proceed and why?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

aine said:


> It sounds to me that this scenario is not healthy for anyone including your wife and children. YOU have to make that cut. As the song goes the first cut is the deepest but you will be doing all a favour by taking the first step and moving out for good. Then setting boundaries with contact, etc. Your wife might surprise you and decide to pull herself up by the boot straps and get back in the saddle of her own life.
> 
> I suspect you are overplaying your guilt and really dont have what it takes to proceed. You will be doing everyone a great favour, living in the current misery is terrible for all of you.


I find it very hard to see any situation where its good for the children if their dad leaves them. Unless he is abusive. I have seen many families where the children were deeply hurt and very damaged by their father leaving.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Well what have you learned from leaving and coming back? NOTHING CHANGES, that's what. So you should be well aware THIS time that there is no good that will come from going back yet again. Your wife is a grown woman and is responsible for herself and her own actions and her own life going forward. Make you plan then tell her. 

If you go back again you might as well just suck up the fact that this is going to be your life and you are making that choice for yourself to stay regardless of your own feelings.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Ending a marriage is difficult. She's not going to divorce you so if you want out it's all on you. If you do leave again you need to make it the last time. Leaving and returning doesn't benefit any of you. As for the process, tell her you've tried but the marriage just doesn't work and needs to end. She will do whatever she can think of to stop that. It's totally up to you whether you go or stay.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Hey @strat_guy, keep going through that book, and when you look at the diagnostic questions, don't just read them and answer them in your head, write it down. Whether it's handwritten or typed, having something to refer back to is good. That's what I did before I separated from my now XH, and I have a Word document that's 10+ pages long just from those diagnostic questions.

I know what it's like to feel extreme guilt about leaving; I did too. The last thing that I wanted to do was rip apart my marriage and hurt my husband, but in the end, happiness is important, and if you're not happy, and she's not willing to work by your side to fix things, then it might be time to take a step in the direction of happiness. 

Does your wife work? Does she have a life outside of your marriage? Why is she so dependent on you? That's never a good habit to fall into. Have you talked to her about exactly why you're unhappy in your marriage? Have you guys gone to couple's counselling?


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> IF you are a Christian how do you justify abandoning your wife and children? Have you spend to the pastor?


I'm not big into religious discussions, but I feel the need to point out that just because someone is religious, that doesn't mean that they can't have marital problems that they can't resolve. Divorcing and being happy is better than sucking it up and being miserable, even when you're a Christian. I have a hard time believing that the OP would up and abandon his children; I'm sure he would do his best to remain in their lives.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

@strat-guy,

I understand how ugly your wife was to you for many years, and that your prayers for change (in her) were not answered. You have left the church your wife grew up in, but have you found another one for you to grow in?

Has your wife apologized for her behavior, and has she gone to individual counseling and marriage counseling with you?

If you leave again, make it your last time. It is not healthy for your children to be caught in your revolving door. Every time you leave, they feel abandoned. Then you come back; only to abandon them all over again. Your behavior is going to ruin their perspective on marriage. Your girls are going to think their husbands will abandon them, and your sons are going to think it is OK to abandon their family and come back again.

Do you have your divorce papers filled out, so you can start the process for real?

Lastly, have you ever had romantic ideas or conversations with another woman?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ursula said:


> I'm not big into religious discussions, but I feel the need to point out that just because someone is religious, that doesn't mean that they can't have marital problems that they can't resolve. Divorcing and being happy is better than sucking it up and being miserable, even when you're a Christian. I have a hard time believing that the OP would up and abandon his children; I'm sure he would do his best to remain in their lives.



Divorce for us is for the most serious reasons only. Children they will see it as their dad leaving them even if he sees them fairly regularly. Sometimes we need to think of them and our responsibilities and our promises made to our spouse before ourselves. I know that's not popular these days, because its all about us and our happiness. 

I have seen children in families I know suffering terribly from their mum or dad leaving, even thought they did see them regularly. Depression, bed wetting, needing counselling, school work suffering etc.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Divorce for us is for the most serious reasons only. Children they will see it as their dad leaving them even if he sees them fairly regularly. Sometimes we need to think of them and our responsibilities and our promises made to our spouse before ourselves. I know that's not popular these days, because its all about us and our happiness.
> 
> I have seen children in families I know suffering terribly from their mum or dad leaving, even thought they did see them regularly. Depression, bed wetting, needing counselling, school work suffering etc.


 Do you feel it's better for children to be raised in a toxic, resentment-filled, passive-aggressive home so when they have their own relationships they will repeat the same behavior? Seeing their parents despise each other and knowing, once they're older, that they were the reason their parents suffered that misery. That's a pretty hefty load of guilt to put on a teenager's shoulders and I'd wager will **** them up far worse than their parents splitting custody and co-parenting ever would.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Do you feel it's better for children to be raised in a toxic, resentment-filled, passive-aggressive home so when they have their own relationships they will repeat the same behavior? Seeing their parents despise each other and knowing, once they're older, that they were the reason their parents suffered that misery. That's a pretty hefty load of guilt to put on a teenager's shoulders and I'd wager will **** them up far worse than their parents splitting custody and co-parenting ever would.


I would hope that the couple would act with decency and respect even if the marriage isn't happy. That they do ALL they can to work on that marriage, have counselling, read books, make time to be together etc etc. 
If we are mature adults we can treat our spouse with respect even if we don't feel the love anymore. 

My husband parents marriage wasn't happy, yet he was still deeply hurt and badly affected when they divorced. 

If there is real abuse that's different. However we use the word abuse far too readily these days for relatively minor things.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> I find it very hard to see any situation where its good for the children if their dad leaves them. ]


Oh, for f's sake, he's not talking about leaving or abandoning his children. He is talking about divorcing his wife. There is a very distinct difference between the two.

Would you say a military man gone months at a time abandoned his children? Would you say a truck driver, airline employee, offshore oil rig worker, or anyone else who's employment requires being away from the kids for days at a time, has abandoned their children? No? Why not? Because the parent is, presumably, financially supporting their children and taking an active and interested role in their lives via video calls, voice calls, texting/messaging, and in person when it's possible, right? 

It's the exact same thing. As long as OP meets his financial obligations and is involved in the kids lives he's not abandoning them.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Rubix Cubed said:


> *Do you feel it's better for children to be raised in a toxic, resentment-filled, passive-aggressive home so when they have their own relationships they will repeat the same behavior? Seeing their parents despise each other and knowing, once they're older, that they were the reason their parents suffered that misery.* That's a pretty hefty load of guilt to put on a teenager's shoulders and I'd wager will **** them up far worse than their parents splitting custody and co-parenting ever would.


Yes, she evidently does...too bad we don't all get to live in the land of unicorns and rainbows...


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Children know when their parents have an unhappy marriage and they often repeat that dynamic when they're adults. 

If the marriage can't be fixed then you need to get out. Had my mother gotten out I would likely have had a better childhood without the toxic behavior I observed when they thought I wasn't watching. Yes, parents should behave better for the sake of their children but few do because the dysfunction tends to take over and control the relationship. 

I lived it as a child, as did my husband, and then he and I repeated it as adults.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> Oh, for f's sake, he's not talking about leaving or abandoning his children. He is talking about divorcing his wife. There is a very distinct difference between the two.
> 
> Would you say a military man gone months at a time abandoned his children? Would you say a truck driver, airline employee, offshore oil rig worker, or anyone else who's employment requires being away from the kids for days at a time, has abandoned their children? No? Why not? Because the parent is, presumably, financially supporting their children and taking an active and interested role in their lives via video calls, voice calls, texting/messaging, and in person when it's possible, right?
> 
> It's the exact same thing. As long as OP meets his financial obligations and is involved in the kids lives he's not abandoning them.


 Unless he divorces her but stays in the home, then he IS leaving his children.Why do you think that so many children are so damaged when a marriage ends? One parent will no longer be around for a large part of the time, and wont be back(unlike those who work away from home who will be back).


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Unless he divorces her but stays in the home, then he IS leaving his children.Why do you think that so many children are so damaged when a marriage ends? One parent will no longer be around for a large part of the time, and wont be back(unlike those who work away from home who will be back).


 How do you know those kids weren't damaged from the toxic marriage? During the marriage any issues could be blamed on school, peer pressure, bullying, etc. when in truth it was the toxic marriage that broke the kids. Your other post said they should fake a good marriage for the kids. You can't fake a loving and nurturing relationship. Kids aren't near as stupid as they are assumed to be, not even close. If you really want to dig into this from what God expects, and says divorce is only acceptable in cases of infidelity, was the marriage created in the first place under the expectations and guidelines of God? If not divorce would seem almost certain. You can't look at one half w/o the other.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

Hi,

I feel terrible for the pain it's going to cause everyone but there is no more debating. I have done everything I can to want to be there not because of the wrong reasons so I'm not debating with anyone the reasons I have for needing to leave but I appreciate the feedback...

My sole dilemma right now is getting as many perspectives from folks who have perhaps gone through similar situations as me in their leaving and how they were able to eventually make the move the final time.

I can't continue living a lie that I am happy where I am, it's not fair to them, it's not fair to me... I can't bear the thought of settling with what I have been dealt with based on a decision I made when I was 19 and under the influence of a controlling church organization that makes it ok for folks to just get married without allowing them to first make sure they are compatible... its horrible and I resent that organization for that so much that I can't stand the thought of that place at all... when I think back to the 20 years we've been together I can't find any period of time that I didn't want to leave the relationship and yet stayed because I had a "DUTY" to stick it through because of the doctrines, because I made a choice and now have to live with the consequence, because that's just what good people do, because you can't abandon your family like that, because if you are really a good person you won't put your family through this, you will suffer in silence you will pray about it, you will be happy and happiness will come, you will put all of your energy into changing the person you are with to make it more pleasant................. there has to be a point that this can stop!!! 

If a wife beats her wife he is "allowed" to leave without any consideration for her because of the violence but if he was just unhappy and knows they're just on totally different paths that can't and won't come together somehow that is wrong..... anyway it's not easy and I know no one can make the move for me but I do think if I can have some scenarios of how others have handled it, perhaps some who have as much issues with feeling guilty and not wanting to hurt others...


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You dont need ANYONE's permission to leave, if that is what you feel you need to do. You have been miserable for a very long time, and you only get one life, do you really want to waste more of it being unhappy and feeling trapped? Stop beating yourself up with guilt, its completely non productive, for you or for anyone else. You could stand to read some books to work on NOT being a doormat anymore, and some individual therapy as well. No More Mr Nice Guy is one book that is recommended often here that you may find helpful. You have neither spine nor balls, I suggest you get to finding both. 

My suggestion is to retain an attorney, and get a plan laid out, including how you want to work custody, assets, etc. Of course this will not be permanent or iron clad, but it shows you are planning, rather than running out. Once you have everything in place, then inform her of what you are doing and how this is going to work. And DONT GO BACK. You either want this or you dont. I have done it. Never had a moment of regret.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

strat_guy said:


> Hi,
> 
> I feel terrible for the pain it's going to cause everyone but there is no more debating. I have done everything I can to want to be there not because of the wrong reasons so I'm not debating with anyone the reasons I have for needing to leave but I appreciate the feedback...
> 
> ...


Listen, I won't give you any grief about leaving. 

But just understand, if you are done, be done, and stay done. 

If you have tried everything then you have done the best you could do. And with all due respect to @Diana7, because she really means well, and she thinks like I used to think. 

However, she did get out of her ordeal, and she is happier, so some of that is a little strange. 

But let me tell you, I have stayed for the kids. My ex was a cheater, hidden drug addict that got sober, and had a host of mental issues and I stayed, until I did not. 

And after all of that, just know, that she freaked the **** out when I told her we were done. Just lost it. 

So, if you are done, be done. Be kind, be good to your kids, and move on. 

Your wife will hate it, she WILL be hurt. It always comes as a surprise to them when you finally say that you are done. How it actually could be a surprise is a mystery to me, but it always seems to happen. 

So man up, be as kind to your wife as you can, but be straight forward and honest. 

It is going to hurt everyone, but understand this...

I tried to stay and stayed too long. I don't know where and what your wife's issues are or if you are just not feeling it. 

But for everyone... I tried to stay, I actually put my kids through hell trying to stay with their mother. Regardless of religion, morels, or whatever else there is... I am proof that staying for the kids is wrong. 

Now, through a lot of love and honestly and just basically having great kids, I will say that in spite of my bad decisions to stay, they turned out OK. I am thankful to God for that. 

But it does not mean that I actually, was not doing disservice by keeping them in that environment. They turned out OK, and quite successful, but that was just luck and it could have gone the other way. 

So like most have said, be straight, be kind, and as loving as you can. 

Tell her that you cannot do this anymore, and you are divorcing. She will cry, scream, and maybe freak out, but you need to stand your ground, while being kind and get it done...

This stuff sucks no matter what...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> Listen, I won't give you any grief about leaving.
> 
> But just understand, if you are done, be done, and stay done.
> 
> ...


My ordeal was nothing like the ops. Mine was very serious, it was nothing about the fact that I was just unhappy. People were actually in real danger in my situation and even a pastor I spoke to said I had no choice but to end the marriage. 

I just don't get how any one can simply walk away from their own children. I could never do that ever. They come first before my own wants.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> My ordeal was nothing like the ops. Mine was very serious, it was nothing about the fact that I was just unhappy. People were actually in real danger in my situation and even a pastor I spoke to said I had no choice but to end the marriage.
> 
> I just don't get how any one can simply walk away from their own children. I could never do that ever. They come first before my own wants.


Who are you to judge who is and is not "justified" in their situations? "JUST unhappy", really?? Sorry but you dont get to be the one to decide the severity of ANYONE's situation, no one has to earn the right to change their situation, and if they think they need out, then they do. Period. Encouraging them to do all they can to try and fix things first is fine, but making a mockery of someone who is "just unhappy" is wayyyy judgemental. 

And the man would not be walking away from his children, how dramatic, seriously.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> My ordeal was nothing like the ops. Mine was very serious, it was nothing about the fact that I was just unhappy. People were actually in real danger in my situation and even a pastor I spoke to said I had no choice but to end the marriage.
> 
> I just don't get how any one can simply walk away from their own children. I could never do that ever. They come first before my own wants.


My point was not what you are reacting to. And, I really don't think that OP is considering not being in his child's life. 

And I am in no way saying your situation was not bad, or that OP's is good or bad. So please don't think that. 

However, you are usually, as far as I can tell, tend to promote the "stay for the children" if at all possible point of view. 

But, in your situation, that was horrible, you could not do that and it tore you up somewhat I would imagine. 

What I am saying is that it is NOT usually good to stay for the children. I did it, and I think that decision inflicted a lot of damage on my children that they should not have had to deal with. 

Further, that damage was not my doing. But I allowed the situation to continue. 

I believed like I think you do now. Do the honorable thing. Keep the family together. Take care of your spouse. 

I did all of that, and in the end, I had a stroke. I could have died and then where would my kids have been. 

What I am saying is that, while I had good intentions, saying was wrong. It hurt my kids to an extent, and almost killed me. 

It is a regret that I still live with today.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> Who are you to judge who is and is not "justified" in their situations? "JUST unhappy", really?? Sorry but you dont get to be the one to decide the severity of ANYONE's situation, no one has to earn the right to change their situation, and if they think they need out, then they do. Period. Encouraging them to do all they can to try and fix things first is fine, but making a mockery of someone who is "just unhappy" is wayyyy judgemental.
> 
> And the man would not be walking away from his children, how dramatic, seriously.


He will be leaving his family. Its a massive thing and will deeply hurt them all. Sometimes we must put our children above what we want.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> My point was not what you are reacting to. And, I really don't think that OP is considering not being in his child's life.
> 
> And I am in no way saying your situation was not bad, or that OP's is good or bad. So please don't think that.
> 
> ...


Dont live in regret, its a waste of energy. 
My need was to protect the children, I always put them first. I had to end the marriage(which wasn't too bad)because of what had happened. 
I have just seen far too many families destroyed because of divorce. Far too many damaged children.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

And I have seen plenty of children badly damaged by parents who stayed together. I'm one. 

It's not as black and white as it may seem.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

You have decided to leave, but fear the chaos that will ensue. In the beginning, some will think you aren't serious again. Be prepared--lawyer, financial, etc.

Do not let guilt, church, screaming, thunder, crying, whining, earthquake, second-guessing deter you from your desired goal. Just as here there will be naysayers, but you have decided and must move forward to respect yourself and secure a better future. Pretend someone is holding a gun to your head and you have to proceed to live--would you do so? This is your choice. Others have not lived in your shoes. Be brave. Then start moving...


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> I find it very hard to see any situation where its good for the children if their dad leaves them. Unless he is abusive. I have seen many families where the children were deeply hurt and very damaged by their father leaving.


The environment is emotionally abusive, a more insidious and damaging impact on children that some would have you believe, I know.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Divorce for us is for the most serious reasons only. Children they will see it as their dad leaving them even if he sees them fairly regularly. Sometimes we need to think of them and our responsibilities and our promises made to our spouse before ourselves. I know that's not popular these days, because its all about us and our happiness.
> 
> I have seen children in families I know suffering terribly from their mum or dad leaving, even thought they did see them regularly. Depression, bed wetting, needing counselling, school work suffering etc.


I understand and respect this point of view. But on the flip-side, consider this: Mom and Dad are fighting constantly, even if they're Christian and they do it behind closed doors, quietly, so their children don't hear them. Thing is that kids pick up on things. My folks never yelled in front of my sister and I, but I could tell when they were fighting. Silent treatment, avoidance, Mom whistled or sang constantly to fill the silence. Kids can just tell. You know what? I wet the bed until I was about 10. Not saying that's a reason, but it's interesting. So, irregardless of religious beliefs, is it better for parents to split amicably and co-parent in a positive manner, or to stay together and keep fighting, teaching their children that no matter what, you stay in that marriage. That's not teaching anything positive in my opinion, and it makes me really happy that I'm not big into religion, because if I were, I'd still be stuck in a loveless, sexless, miserable marriage.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> Listen, I won't give you any grief about leaving.
> 
> But just understand, if you are done, be done, and stay done.
> 
> ...


^^^ This here couldn't have been said any better. Listen to this advice and heed it. I don't have children, but the decision to leave my marriage was the hardest I've ever made. Perhaps if I'd have had children, I'd have stayed. My marriage wasn't horrible; I wasn't beat, he wasn't an addict; he was just very unavailable and really not interested in anything past the titles of "husband" and "wife". I hurt him and his family/friends with my decision; everyone was shocked, including him and I really don't know why. @MattMatt is right, just be as kind as possible, get your affairs in order and a game plan for your kids in place, and be kind during the divorce process. And, don't drag your kids into adult matters.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> I did all of that, and in the end, I had a stroke. I could have died and then where would my kids have been.


Holy macaroni, I'm so sorry, Blue, that's awful. :frown2:


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Ursula said:


> Holy macaroni, I'm so sorry, Blue, that's awful. :frown2:


Don't cry for me in any way. I made my decisions, I thought I was doing the right thing until it was slapping me in my face. 

On the stroke, I fully recovered. Occasionally, I cannot think of a particularly good word for a particular conversation, but that is the only lasting side effect other than my left hand not being as strong as it was. 

Which for me, it is very slight but I can notice it, and both of my hands were and are super strong so any difference is negligible. 

My playing was not affected in anyway. And woodworking or electronic stuff is not any kind of an issue. 

So I really have no effects from the stroke. 

And I still say that it was the best thing, besides my kids, that ever happened to me. Thinking you may die, can really wake you up like nothing else. 

My life is far better than I deserve, and I could not be any happier.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> Don't cry for me in any way. I made my decisions, I thought I was doing the right thing until it was slapping me in my face.
> 
> On the stroke, I fully recovered. Occasionally, I cannot think of a particularly good word for a particular conversation, but that is the only lasting side effect other than my left hand not being as strong as it was.
> 
> ...


It sounds like things are pretty fantastic for you at this time, and I'm glad to hear that there've been no major lasting effects. It's kind of amazing how stress can affect one's body. I had a similar experience during the last year of so of my marriage: arm pain, thought it was a heart attack, but it just continued until the separation when I realized that that's just how i was carrying the stress. Stress is horrible and can do a lot of damage! I'm glad you're doing well now!


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