# Need some HELP!



## JGM (Apr 1, 2013)

I guess I need to tell the entire story so maybe I can get some help. My wife and I were married at 16. We have now been married 20 years. We are each others best friends. I recently found out about some times she has cheated. I will go through the story so maybe I can get some advice. About 10 years ago I had a friend who came on to me and I let it go a little to far before I stopped. I was more scared about stopping it then letting it go. I was not attracted to her I just didn't know how to say no but I did and it was one incident. I felt so bad and was miserable my wife could tell and I told her what happened. She then told me about my best friend who she had sex with. She said she just did it cause he was being persistent and she just wanted him to leave. That was 10 years ago. So now in December I ran across a secret email she had. I confronted her and she told me it was just so that she could buy me a gift without me knowing. I bought it for a couple days then started digging and found 2 contacts in the email account. She admitted to meeting one guy and just kissing him in a car and then meeting with another guy for sex. Shes says she cut it off cause she felt bad and these had been a couple years ago. About a month went by and I ran across some other things that I found out about another friend that my wife and him had been exchanging emails and she had meet with him twice for sex at his house. This was about 9 months ago. I confronted her and had it out then she promised me that there was nothing else that I knew about everything. She promised over and over that there was nothing else. Then a couple weeks ago after going through things I found out about another friend that happened 15 years ago. He was an old boy friend from high school who I have been good friends with. She said it was only 2 times and couldn't remember much else. I confronted my friend about it and he said they met 10 to 12 times. I know it is a long story but I am very devastated! She says she is going to get counseling. I wanted to do couples counseling but she does not want that and says there is nothing wrong with me. At this point I am out of friends and don't know where to turn. We really get along great. I love her more than anything but I am confused on what to do or how to treat her. I want to work things out. At this point I think she probably thinks she has a free pass cause she knows I wont leave. She says none of the affairs were emotional. She says they were just a thrill. She says it will never happen again. I believe her but still have a little doubt. Please HELP!


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

JGM said:


> ...she probably thinks she has a free pass cause she knows I wont leave. She says none of the affairs were emotional....


Bingo!

How many kids do you have? 

Does she work? 

Are your finances in order? (no money issues)

You married way young at 16 yet she had sex with a boyfriend from h.s.? Was she seeing you both at 16? or did she have bf's at a much younger age? 

It may be that she doesn't want you in the counselor's office to explain other affairs she's had - or afraid to express how she really feels about you. 

The fact that you've been snooping around (not a knock on you) shows that your spidy sense tells you she's not being honest with you - I agree.


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## JGM (Apr 1, 2013)

We have 5 kids. We used to work together in a home business. She recently went back to school to do something else. Money is up and down but it is good now. The boyfriend was someone she left me for about 6 months before we were married and then cam back to me.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I am sorry but your wife is a serial cheater and has constantly put your health at risk for STD's. My guess is that you do not know half of the amount of affairs she has since she continually lies to your face until you catch her in another lie and an affair. Apparently there are never any consequences to her for having sex with other men behind your back.
Her comment to you that she has sex with this one guy because she wanted him to leave is so ridiculous that she clearly thinks you are an idiot.

I recommend the following:
1. Have the both of you tested immediately for STD's.
2. If you have children you will need to have them tested for paternity since she is a serial cheater.
3. See a lawyer to understand your options.

Your wife has consistently cheated on you with other men making you look like a fool and putting your health at risk for STD's. My guess is that you are a nice guy and she thought she could keep doing this and even if she was caught you would forgive her anyway.

Your wife says the cheating was just for a thrill which says what she really thinks of you and your marriage. If the roles were reversed would she have accepted this from you? Clearly your marriage has been one big lie. She has a totally broken moral compass and she has absolutely no respect for you whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

JGM said:


> At this point I am out of friends and don't know where to turn. We really get along great. I love her more than anything but I am confused on what to do or how to treat her. I want to work things out. At this point I think she probably thinks she has a free pass cause she knows I wont leave.


 She is a serial cheater that has cheated on you throughout your marriage, including sleeping with your friends. Every time that you catch her, she lies and admits only to what you already know. You are out of friends, because each time that she cheats with one, they lose respect for you. As for your comment that "she probably thinks she has a free pass cause she knows I wont leave", she thinks that because it is true.

Bottom line, there is no marraige to this woman (and never was) where she will be a faithful wife. That is not who she is or even wants to be. If you stay in this marriage, she will treat it as an open marraige. If you want to stay in this marraige, the only thing that you can do is stick your head back in the sand and make believe about who she really is. If she has children while you are married, please have DNA testing well before they are born so that you will have time to file for divorce before you are liable for child support. Once they are born, DNA or not, as the husband at time of birth, in most states you will be financially liable until they are 18, even if she divorces you and moves in with the biological father (sucks but true). Imagine one of your friends getting to live with your wife and getting to raise their biological child, while you pay alimony and child support (for his kid).


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## JGM (Apr 1, 2013)

bryanp said:


> I am sorry but your wife is a serial cheater and has constantly put your health at risk for STD's. My guess is that you do not know half of the amount of affairs she has since she continually lies to your face until you catch her in another lie and an affair. Apparently there are never any consequences to her for having sex with other men behind your back.
> Her comment to you that she has sex with this one guy because she wanted him to leave is so ridiculous that she clearly thinks you are an idiot.
> 
> I recommend the following:
> ...


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## JGM (Apr 1, 2013)

She says she is willing to go to a counseler and it will never happen again. She is saying and doing all the right things. We get along great. I want to believe her


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

JGM said:


> We really get along great.


Your wife has admitted to sleeping with four men (two of them good friends of yours) and making out with another. She is a serial cheater. Your marriage is not great. It is the opposite of great.

By sleeping with your friends, your wife went beyond adultery. This was meant to destroy you. It was pure contempt. She hates you with the heat of a thousand suns. There's no other way to say it.

Saying you get along great is like saying that you really love a restaurant that gives you food poisoning. You should be avoiding that restaurant. Not praising it.



> I want to work things out.


Why? Do you think that she can transform herself into a trustworthy person? She is 36. Personality reversals are very rare in adults.



> At this point I think she probably thinks she has a free pass cause she knows I wont leave.


I would say that you're right.



> She says it will never happen again. I believe her but still have a little doubt. Please HELP!


Why do you believe her? Will she never again want a thrill in her life? I haven't seen anything from your post that makes me think she is, in any way, trustworthy. Why would you believe her now? Do you think the sixth time is the charm for remaining faithful?

I think the best thing you can do for yourself is to divorce her. However, if you are committed to reconciling, you have to make her think that you are committed to divorcing her.

See a divorce lawyer, or several, and leave the business cards where she will see them. Or, you can print off DIY divorce forms and fill them out. Tell her that you're going to begin the process of divorce. If she can convince you that she has completely changed her entire personality, and is now a trustworthy wife, then you will consider halting the divorce.

But she has to believe this. You can't come off like you're bluffing. She will call you on it. And she might not even believe you anyway. Any man who is willing to forgive five acts of adultery has got a TON of respect that he needs to try to win back. It might not be possible.

Good luck.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

DNA test the kids for future health reasons. Do it in front of her so she knows you don't believe anything she says.


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## JGM (Apr 1, 2013)

I guess my answer to why is because I do love her. I do believe in marriage. I do think people can change. I don't think change is easy but I think it can happen.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

She doesn't want to do mc with you because this is probably the tip of the iceberg.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

JGM said:


> She says she is willing to go to a counseler and it will never happen again. She is saying and doing all the right things. We get along great. I want to believe her


You have five kids. So you are familiar with young, narcissistic minds. Tell me, when you chastise your young children about breaking a rule, and they promise never to do anything bad again, do you believe them and hold off of punishment? Or, do you believe that they are either fooling themselves, or trying to fool you, and you must still hold them accountable for their actions.

By you immediately accepting a "Woops!" apology for a couple of dozen instances of adultery with five different men, you are granting your wife license to cheat in the future. What, is six so much worse than five that you will draw the line there? What about eight, or twelve?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

JGM said:


> I guess my answer to why is because I do love her. I do believe in marriage. I do think people can change. I don't think change is easy but I think it can happen.


It really doesn't matter whether you believe in marriage. Your wife obviously doesn't.

Although, if you are committed to stay with her, then I suggest you embrace the cuckold lifestyle. A small minority of men find the idea of their wives having sex with other men to be a turn on. There are cuckold porn sites on the internet. See if that kind of pornography turns you on.

Good luck.


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## JGM (Apr 1, 2013)

I am so confused!


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

She's a serial cheater. It'll be hard for her to change her character without some serious life-changing consequences.

If you stay with her, be prepare for more. She'll just get better at hiding them.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Your wife does not respect you. I am not sure there is anything to fix this.

File for D and get yourself into IC right away to work on you. Are you sure your kids are yours?

It is time you get and STD test and show your wife the door.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Your wife was not confused while cheating with other men who some were your friends. I understand that you are scared. You judge a person by their actions and not by their words and her actions speak volumes.

1. Get your children tested for paternity.
2. Schedule a polygraph. Usually about $500 and you will find that she has more men and more times with each man than she said.

I understand why you are denial but really why should she change since she knows you will accept anything and everything that she does to you. My guess is that you have had sex with her shortly after her being with other men. How can you ever have any respect for her? Good luck.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

I recommend that you talk to a lawyer before doing any paternity testing. After a year or two, it varies by state, it no longer matters whether a child is yours in terms of legal responsibility for the child. Personally, I would rather ignorantly care for a child I believed was mine than be forced to care for a child I knew not to be. You are almost certainly legally responsible for child support for your older children, so you may not want to know their paternity for certain.


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

congratulations you are in a open marriage...shame you didnt know about it until now.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

JGM said:


> I am so confused!


It's understandable. You've had quite a shock. You're in denial. That's natural. You can't comprehend that your long wife would treat you so badly.

The thing is, the clock is ticking. You don't have time to slowly adjust to the idea that your wife hates you. You've got to deal with that reality ASAP.

If you want to reconcile, then your wife needs to see you man up immediately and kick her out of the house for her adultery. That might earn her respect. Then, you can eventually see if you can get her to love you.

So, I apologize if we've been harsh on you here. But we've seen this before and we know that swift and decisive action is the best plan for you. So we call our harsh bluntness a virtual 2x4 between the eyes. You need to wake up and deal with this awful mess your wife has force on you.

Good luck.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

JGM said:


> I do think people can change. I don't think change is easy but I think it can happen.


 Although people can change, it is not easy; since you admitted that "she probably thinks she has a free pass cause she knows I wont leave", what exactly is the motivation for her to change?


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## mule kick (Apr 10, 2012)

You need counseling, not her.


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## JGM (Apr 1, 2013)

I get that you guys all think I am crazy. I am determined to make this work! Does anyone have any advice for that? I will go to counseling I know that I need that. I really feel like forgiveness is the answer and working on it. No one ever said marriage was easy.


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

well if you think it can work then good luck to you. she has cheated ALOT more than you know. you NEVER get the full truth right away. im sorry if we sound hard on you. we all have been there done that. right now you got the TIP of the ICEBERG.

like tom said set up a polygraph now. lostcpa on this site caught his wife cheating she told him once with the neighbor 1 polygraph later 6 affairs lasting over 6 months each over 7 years.


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## mule kick (Apr 10, 2012)

JGM said:


> I get that you guys all think I am crazy. I am determined to make this work! Does anyone have any advice for that? I will go to counseling I know that I need that. I really feel like forgiveness is the answer and working on it. No one ever said marriage was easy.


I don't think you are crazy. I think you need to get help understanding marriage in general and your marriage in particular. You are here and that is an important 1st step. It means you can see that you have not gotten perhaps the best advice so far. Sometimes just hearing yourself say what you are going through live and to an impartial viewer is enough to give you the perspective you need. I know for months I cared more for my marriage and a flawed sense of what was right for my kids than that my wife was staying with another man. About a year later and I have a better person in my life, i recognize i shouldn't expect myself to live that way and my kids are doing well.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

JGM said:


> I get that you guys all think I am crazy. I am determined to make this work! Does anyone have any advice for that? I will go to counseling I know that I need that. I really feel like forgiveness is the answer and working on it. No one ever said marriage was easy.


You are not crazy. You are just like the vast majority of guys who come in here asking for advice. They are then shocked to find out that the best way ... no, the only way short of simply having an open marriage ... to fix this is to be willing to let her go.

Her behavior WILL NOT change unless there are some real consequences. There are others here who can tell you exactly what you need to do. 

Come on, think about ... there are probably things in your life that you want to change about yourself ... and sometimes you say you will; but the fact of the matter is that most people don't make dramatic changes unless they are forced to ... unless they face consequences so terrible that they have little choice. How many obese people continue to say they want to lose weight and try this or that for years without much progress ... until they get that pre-diabetic diagnosis or some other health related issue. Same thing with smoking. Everybody knows it's not healthy but few people are able to quite until they realize they can't get up the stairs without getting out of breath or they spend every night with fits of hacking. The "come to jesus" moment.

You cannot simply accept her word that she will change and then try to forgive her. You can ... but she will do it again GUARANTEED.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

JGM said:


> I get that you guys all think I am crazy.


 "Crazy," no. "In denial," yes.



JGM said:


> I am determined to make this work! Does anyone have any advice for that?


 If by making "this work" you mean keeping your head in the sand as your wife regularly cheats on you and disrespects you with your friends, then keep doing what you are doing as your current strategy has reliable given you this outcome. 

As counter intuitive as this is for you to understand, only if you are truly willing to file for divorce and mean it, will there be any chance that your wife will fear losing you and come begging for you to give her another chance. But this only works when you get the self respect to be fed up with the cheating and truly be willing to move on. She cannot be in love with someone that she does not respect, and she cannot respect someone that does not respect himself.



JGM said:


> I really feel like forgiveness is the answer and working on it.


 How has that been working for you so far? Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. – Albert Einstein.



JGM said:


> No one ever said marriage was easy.


 Yes, but no one ever said marraige was suppose suppose to mean that she would get to cheat on you with your friends as you stick your head in the sand and do nothing.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

JGM said:


> She says it will never happen again. I believe her but still have a little doubt. Please HELP!


I am sorry that you're here - what a sandwich you've been handed.

You ask for help dealing with the doubt and how to make it work. You have been given good advice already. These are my two cents. 

I think you need to adjust your thinking - do some IC to get there. You have to start seeing things the way they really are, see your wife for who she really is - and that's obviously a different reality than you thought. Now, you may try to pretend that your wife made a mistake, and that there's absolutely no chance she'll ever do it again. Trouble is, your gut makes you doubt, it's trying to tell you something. What it is trying to tell you is, that there is no way you will ever know if you have the whole truth. Also, you can never, ever, not in your lifetime know that she won't repeat the deed!! Never.

If you choose to pretend... you're most likely up for disappointments. The way you can begin to find a path towards recovery is to accept things exactly the way they are. And the fact is that you are married to a serial cheater, who have absolutely no respect for your marriage, and that you can't be certain it won't happen again - accept it and then you may try to deal with it afterwards. And then you can decide whether to make it work or not. But you must remove your blinders first. Open your eyes.

For myself; I found some kind of peace once I understood the facts of my wife's betrayal. I now know what she's capable of, and I will never forget that. It helps me keep my sanity and make wiser choices, hopefully, moving forward.

My best wishes for you.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

JGM said:


> I get that you guys all think I am crazy. I am determined to make this work! Does anyone have any advice for that? I will go to counseling I know that I need that. I really feel like forgiveness is the answer and working on it. No one ever said marriage was easy.


JGM,

It is hard! I was told at one point I was crazy too.

It is new to you, and all of your world has now changed. What you thought you had, you didn't.

It is okay to be in the place where you want to forgive. The advice comes fast, and it does because there are key things you should do to protect yourself, and posters have valuable experience to share.

Almost EVERYONE will agree that you have to be willing to cut her off in order to have any chance at fixing this.

I also would bet that you need some time to let it all soak in. Eventually you will ask "WHY". When you start to try to bend your head around the why part, your feelings will change. Almost always there will come a time when you feel this was too much.

This is normal.

We know how painful it is right now. You are in a place where you just wish the pain would go away.

Take care of yourself emotionally, mentally, and physically.

Move at a pace that is tolerable. Spend some time to recover from this horrible shock.

It will begin to unfold. The ugly truth will continue to show up, and gnaw at you. Stay here as best you can, and learn.

As you progress, your heart may decide to do something else. It is easier for us to see that than it is for you. It is the collective perspective of this group.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

You are going to get some advice to expose.

Listen to it ... but unfortunately I think you are going to be surprised about how many people already know.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

If you choose R my advice: 

She should not speak to men socially. She has shown she cannot control her impulses. If you're an alcoholic stay out of the bar.

Open Access to phone/email/whatever permanently.

Expose to her family and yours. 

Set a clear boundary and be willing to enforce it. 

Get all the info: There's more. She's still lying. They all trickle truth almost without exception. If she says it's 2 people it's probably 5. If she's says sex 4 times it's probably 10. Expect to learn more, a lot more. 

Make her sign a post nup agreement with an infidelity clause. 

Schedule a polygraph test. She will fess up on the way there probably. If not be prepared to waste $500. 

Get tested for STDs. 

And that's for starters, others will chime in with more she'll need to do but that's the big ones. 

In the end though, you ARE in denial. This marriage is wrecked, probably beyond repair. 

Your options at this point are probably to have an open marriage or to accept the fact it will almost certainly happen again. 

Read No More Mr Nice Guy! and Married Man Sex Life. (its not about sex.) While many dispute the validity of these books, the chances they'll ring some bells for you are pretty high. 

You need to grow a spine. Do it for your kids at least. It's only a matter of time before she ends up leaving with another man. She's been shopping around but hasn't liked one she's tried on.


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## mule kick (Apr 10, 2012)

awake1 said:


> She's been shopping around but hasn't liked one she's tried on.


More likely they haven't wanted to commit to a married woman with 5 kids. There is a scheming bastard on the other side, too you know. Didn't stop her from looking.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

JGM said:


> I get that you guys all think I am crazy.


You're not crazy. You're just in denial. You think there is some magic wand you can wave to turn your marriage back into the fantasy that you thought you had, but really never did.

The thing is, like the red pill in The Matrix, once you take it, you can't untake it. You can't go back to your blissful ignorance.



> I am determined to make this work! Does anyone have any advice for that?


Asked and answered. In order to save your marriage, you have to be willing to lose it. Women don't love or respect cuckolds. So, telling your wife that you love her so much that you're willing to accept her making you a cuckold will NOT earn her love. It will only earn her contempt.

Look, people have tried for years on this site to nice their wives out of affairs and back into loving them. And I have yet to see it work even once. I mean, it stands to reason that it would work at least SOME of the time, right? Nope. It never, ever works.



> I will go to counseling I know that I need that. I really feel like forgiveness is the answer and working on it. No one ever said marriage was easy.


Again, it doesn't matter what you want or what you think. We're talking about your wife here. It's what she wants that matters. And she wants to bang other men. Repeatedly.

So, you have choices.

1. Divorce her.
2. Try to end her affairs. The best way to do that is to man up, start divorce proceedings, and give her the opportunity to earn back a place in your household.
3. Accept being a cuckold. Maybe you could try for an open marriage where you get some action on the side as well.

That's it. It has to be one of the three. And here's the inconvenient truth. Simply forgiving her and trusting her to change is a de facto choice of #3. That's where you are right now.

If you willingly choose #3, that's fine. It's your marriage. You can be happy, or not, however you choose to be. But I just don't want you to fool yourself into thinking that you're going to be so nice and understanding that your wife will just give up screwing other men without any other influence. It won't happen.

Good luck.


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## crazyace (Aug 20, 2012)

JGM said:


> I get that you guys all think I am crazy. I am determined to make this work! Does anyone have any advice for that? I will go to counseling I know that I need that. I really feel like forgiveness is the answer and working on it. No one ever said marriage was easy.


Sorry to say this but, You surely need an appointment with a spine doctor, to insert a rod in your spine to make it stiff ..!


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

JGM said:


> She says she is willing to go to a counseler and it will never happen again. She is saying and doing all the right things. We get along great. I want to believe her


It is up to you, but a decade of various hookups with random guys and friends? You should ask her if "it will never happen again" means cheating or getting caught.

Paternity test would be first on my list of to do regardless of reconciliation. Followed up by STD tests. Heck, both in the same visit if possible.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

JGM said:


> She says she is willing to go to a counseler and it will never happen again. She is saying and doing all the right things. We get along great. I want to believe her


What is she "doing"? So far, I only see posts about what she is "saying"?

You were her best friend. She was not yours.

So far, except for the first time, which she probably told you about just to get you as upset as she was when you told her what you did, she has not confessed anything that you hadn't already found out about, including after telling you over and over and over again.

Now, she's saying all the right things. But wasn't she saying all the right things before, when you found out the thing before this time? How is this time different than last time?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

She has 5 kids, is she a stay at home mom? When and where did she have time for all these hookups?

You know she is still lying because one of you friends said twelve times, she said two.

Evdryone knows.

The thing is No one will tell you a serial cheater can change. Only one here I have seen in thousands of cases has changed, and that's only been three years.

Has anyone else, her friends or family , been cheaters? That's another real bad sign.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Every time you dig you find more. The chances all what happened left traces so you could find them are slim to zero, specially since it has been going on for more than a decade (thet you know of).

She needs to get a calendar and whtever she needs to jog her memory (pictures, jornals, youname it) and write down a timeline, inclusing every crossed boundarie since the beggining of your relationship. You will get then the "full" disclosure again.

Then demand a polygraph and you will get the parking lot, last minute new "full confession".
You have the tip of the icerberg.

And of course, tteling you they were meaningless (not feelings is basicaly bull. Obviusly they met certaing emotional needs too.

You wife has serious issues.


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