# No sexual attraction



## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

I am new here and hoping some of you might be able to spread some light on my dilemma.

I have been with my husband for 12 years. He was my first and only. We are married and have 2 children. We get along great. We don't fight. He's a good dad, a hard worker and a good guy.

My problem is that I am having some serious trouble with our sex life. My sex drive has only just returned since I stopped breastfeeding our youngest child (he's 18 months). Previous to this, I had little to no desire to have sex, but we still did have sex every 2-3 days. I didnt enjoy it but wanted to make sure his needs were met.

Now that my drive is back, I am finding myself increasingly frustrated. We've been trying lots of different positions, toys, etc, but my attraction is zero. Nothing is working. I have to literally close my eyes and imagine other people that I am attracted to to even come close to enjoying myself. 

Is this normal? What the hell do I do?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

What do you find physically unattractive about your husband?

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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> What do you find physically unattractive about your husband?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Honestly it is everything. He is NOT a bad looking guy, but there is just nothing about him that I am attracted to. I dont know why. 

It makes me feel awful. He goes on about how hot he thinks I am, and I feel nothing. Other men turn me on, so I know I still have the ability to feel attracted... but just not to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

How is the emotional / non sexual intimacy? Is he overbearing? Needy? What complaints do you actually have about him?

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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

OK, but what things does he do that turns you off. Maybe it's not his looks that turn you off but his actions.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

PatriciaLee said:


> Is this normal? What the hell do I do?


Perhaps your husband is too willing to please you. Human sexuality works in strange ways because desire needs distance, and it may be hard to desire your husband if he is right there struggling to try what ever you might suggest. 

Take everything you know about sex and toss it out the window for a moment. Have him dominate you by making you into HIS slave to please him in any manner he wants while at the same time he ignores you. Odds are you might find this extremely erotic


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

What age did you start dating? Besides physical qualities, what characteristics do you find attractive other than physical ones. For example, my gf finds my sense of humor really attractive and I find her singing attractive. Do you both spend tiem apart and have your own lives? Your identities might intertwine too much as you see him as a part of yourself rather than his own individual. The bond is strong but you lose attraction as your love turns more like that of a sibling or friends. Relationships needs two types of love, romantic and attachment. You have strong attachment love, but the romantic or attraction love is lacking.

Did you ever find him attractive?


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> How is the emotional / non sexual intimacy? Is he overbearing? Needy? What complaints do you actually have about him?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


The complaints. Ugh. I have more than I should. I feel like complaining is focusing all on the bad. He is a good guy, but I've allowed a lot of things to go on for years that are now biting me in the ass.

We met at 17. I had other previous boyfriends, but nothing more than 6 months. By nature, I am a pretty easy going person and go with the flow, but I also did not stand up for myself a lot early on (and still don't to an extent) to avoid conflict. I had a very tumultuous childhood so I wanted to avoid any kind of conflict. I would do whatever he wanted and never speak up. The few times I did speak up and try to stand up for myself, it wouldn't end well.

So, my complaints.

I wish he made me feel special more. Yes, he tells me he loves me and that he appreciates me, and that I look good, but I don't ever feel like he puts effort forth to make me feel that way. 

We have so little in common.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> OK, but what things does he do that turns you off. Maybe it's not his looks that turn you off but his actions.


In addition to what I just posted above, I have some resentment over our sexual past. Out first time happened because he assumed I wasn't a virgin and just went for it without asking.

He pressures me into anal and I ****ing hate it, despite giving in a few times (including my wedding night).

I just feel a complete lack of connection with our interests and conversations (or lack there of).


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

badsanta said:


> Perhaps your husband is too willing to please you. Human sexuality works in strange ways because desire needs distance, and it may be hard to desire your husband if he is right there struggling to try what ever you might suggest.
> 
> Take everything you know about sex and toss it out the window for a moment. Have him dominate you by making you into HIS slave to please him in any manner he wants while at the same time he ignores you. Odds are you might find this extremely erotic


The problem is that I _would _find this extremely erotic with someone else, but I find it hard to even think that I would enjoy it with him.

Don't get me wrong, I've tried to get him to roughen things up a bit, and I like it, but I still have to check out and think of other people.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

PatriciaLee said:


> The complaints. Ugh. I have more than I should. I feel like complaining is focusing all on the bad. He is a good guy, but I've allowed a lot of things to go on for years that are now biting me in the ass.
> 
> We met at 17. I had other previous boyfriends, but nothing more than 6 months. By nature, I am a pretty easy going person and go with the flow, but I also did not stand up for myself a lot early on (and still don't to an extent) to avoid conflict. I had a very tumultuous childhood so I wanted to avoid any kind of conflict. I would do whatever he wanted and never speak up. The few times I did speak up and try to stand up for myself, it wouldn't end well.
> 
> ...


Now we are actually getting somewhere.

What specifically could he do to make you feel more special?

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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Mr.Fisty said:


> What age did you start dating? Besides physical qualities, what characteristics do you find attractive other than physical ones. For example, my gf finds my sense of humor really attractive and I find her singing attractive. Do you both spend tiem apart and have your own lives? Your identities might intertwine too much as you see him as a part of yourself rather than his own individual. The bond is strong but you lose attraction as your love turns more like that of a sibling or friends. Relationships needs two types of love, romantic and attachment. You have strong attachment love, but the romantic or attraction love is lacking.
> 
> Did you ever find him attractive?


We were 17 when we started dating.

I think he is overall a good guy but I often feel like we're two very, very different people. I love that he is hard working. I love that he does so much to be successful. I love that he is so grounded (but at the same time, the lack of fun is a downer).

We get along great. Although I have been starting to speak up more and voice my opinion rather than going along with everything, and it's causing more disagreements.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

PatriciaLee said:


> In addition to what I just posted above, I have some resentment over our sexual past. Out first time happened because he assumed I wasn't a virgin and just went for it without asking.
> 
> He pressures me into anal and I ****ing hate it, despite giving in a few times (including my wedding night).
> 
> I just feel a complete lack of connection with our interests and conversations (or lack there of).


Why would you tolerate something you thoroughly dislike?

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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> Now we are actually getting somewhere.
> 
> What specifically could he do to make you feel more special?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I would love for him to come home and just tell me to take off for the afternoon and get my nails done, or get a massage.

On my birthday or Mother's Day, I would love it if he'd just look after everything for the day so I could just turn off and do something for myself.

I really thought he'd come through on my 30th Birthday, and he really, really disappointed me. 

I don't ask for a lot, but I feel like he puts minimal effort forth. I think he believes that bringing home $$$ and providing for the family is equal to more sentimental things. He values money over most things.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

PatriciaLee said:


> In addition to what I just posted above, I have some resentment over our sexual past. Out first time happened because he assumed I wasn't a virgin and just went for it without asking.
> 
> He pressures me into anal and I ****ing hate it, despite giving in a few times (including my wedding night).
> 
> I just feel a complete lack of connection with our interests and conversations (or lack there of).


You feel like you have no say in your marriage then? Based on this and other comments, sounds like you don't feel like an equal partner in this relationship. You don't feel respected nor valued. Correct?


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> Why would you tolerate something you thoroughly dislike?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Because he really wanted to try it, and kept asking. I didn't want to deprive him of something that he really wanted.

That being said, I have told him "no more." I have really tried to enjoy it, but it's equal to torture for me, and I can't do it anymore.

Not only that, but I *may* have used it as a bargaining tool at one point, and he did not hold up his end of that deal, which really, really upset me.

I've flat out told him that if anal is something he needs, he has to find it elsewhere.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

PatriciaLee said:


> Because he really wanted to try it, and kept asking. I didn't want to deprive him of something that he really wanted.
> 
> That being said, I have told him "no more." I have really tried to enjoy it, but it's equal to torture for me, and I can't do it anymore.
> 
> ...


Have you used sex as a bargaining tool when it comes to other things?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> You feel like you have no say in your marriage then? Based on this and other comments, sounds like you don't feel like an equal partner in this relationship. You don't feel respected nor valued. Correct?


That would be a pretty accurate statement.

It's my own damn fault for being so lax about things for so long. I am trying to work on that now and speak up for myself. I promised myself that my 30s would be more about me. It's always been about him or our small children.
I'm making it clear that I want to do things or not do things. Instead of just not caring about things, I am voicing my opinion on my dislike and disagreement.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

PatriciaLee said:


> I would love for him to come home and just tell me to take off for the afternoon and get my nails done, or get a massage.
> 
> On my birthday or Mother's Day, I would love it if he'd just look after everything for the day so I could just turn off and do something for myself.
> 
> ...


What did he say when you asked him for these things?

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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

MarriedDude said:


> Have you used sex as a bargaining tool when it comes to other things?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Never. I have never, any other time treated sex as a bargaining tool. I have never expected anything in return for sex.

I do feel like sex is expected whenever he goes out of his way to do things around the house, etc, but I never expect anything extra from him for having sex with me.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

PatriciaLee said:


> Never. I have never, any other time treated sex as a bargaining tool. I have never expected anything in return for sex.
> 
> I do feel like sex is expected whenever he goes out of his way to do things around the house, etc, but I never expect anything extra from him for having sex with me.


Ok. Sounds like HE sees sex as a reward for specific behaviors or actions. 

I imagine that gets frustrating. What happens when he doesn't get what he wants?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> What did he say when you asked him for these things?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Although I've never directly come out and said that I wish he'd offer things like that, I have kind have given him the idea that I'm annoyed with the fact that his lack of effort is making me feel frustrated.

Like on my 30th birthday, he couldn't understand why I was so mad that he took off to go have a drink with the neighbour, leaving me to wrangle the kids and attempt to get ready for dinner at the same time (and then he came home having drunk too much, telling me I would have to drive myself to my birthday dinner). then later that night he pouted when my friends wanted me to stay longer to my own party that they had thrown for me (our sitter had to go home and he wanted the both of us to go home rather than me stay longer).

Or on Mother's Day when, while he did take me out for breakfast, I was still left to wash a ton of dishes, laundry and manage kids almost the whole day while he did whatever he wanted.

I don't even like to ask for much, but when our friends call him out on this stuff, it makes me realize that maybe I put up with a little more than I should, and that it's ok for me to be annoyed.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

PatriciaLee said:


> Although I've never directly come out and said that I wish he'd offer things like that, I have kind have given him the idea that I'm annoyed with the fact that his lack of effort is making me feel frustrated.
> 
> Like on my 30th birthday, he couldn't understand why I was so mad that he took off to go have a drink with the neighbour, leaving me to wrangle the kids and attempt to get ready for dinner at the same time (and then he came home having drunk too much, telling me I would have to drive myself to my birthday dinner). then later that night he pouted when my friends wanted me to stay longer to my own party that they had thrown for me (our sitter had to go home and he wanted the both of us to go home rather than me stay longer).
> 
> ...


You are 1/2 of the problem here.

You want him to score a goal, but you have not clearly defined where the goalposts lie.

Why would you expect something from him that you have never communicated you actually want?

He has issues, for sure. But your are being passive aggressive with covert contracts, and it is causing resentment.

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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

MarriedDude said:


> Ok. Sounds like HE sees sex as a reward for specific behaviors or actions.
> 
> I imagine that gets frustrating. What happens when he doesn't get what he wants?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I would say he does see sex as a reward. 

I do get frustrated, and it's only now that I am starting to realize that I may be justified in feeling that.

He's so used to me just bowing to all his needs that when I disagree with him or don't want to do something, he gets sulky or irritated. I am so sensitive to conflict that I would rather just give in to a lot of things than fight over it. Now that I am kind of "growing up" and figuring out who I am, and that it's ok to feel certaing things, I am getting a lot less tolerant of this.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> You are 1/2 of the problem here.
> 
> You want him to score a goal, but you have not clearly defined where the goalposts lie.
> 
> ...


I totally understand that I am a huge part of this problem. I am very much working on making my feelings and desires known.

The problem is that I don't even know if I'd be any more attracted to him if he were doing it all "right."


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

PatriciaLee said:


> I totally understand that I am a huge part of this problem. I am very much working on making my feelings and desires known.
> 
> The problem is that I don't even know if I'd be any more attracted to him if he were doing it all "right."


Can you define or explain how "right" would look?
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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I understand the fear. 

At this point there is no harm in trying. The worst that will happen is that you are still not attracted to him, and you will be no worse off.

You need to put him on notice.

"Husband, for a long time I did not voice things that have bothered me. I have bottled it up, and it has caused me to resent you as well as lose attraction for you. I am learning to find my voice. You will hear me say no more often, and hear me communicate my needs more. I won't get it exactly right as I learn, either. But I will do my best. In return, I need you to be more aware of what I need to feel loved. I need you to be more considerate of what I ask for. Can we work together to make this better?"

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## philreag (Apr 2, 2015)

Nearly already checked out ..


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

MarriedDude said:


> Can you define or explain how "right" would look?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ideally, he would be someone who makes me laugh. That's fun. That brings out my fun side. Right now I feel like we're so dull.

I'd love it if he encouraged me to go relax more.

I wish we could have more intelligent conversations rather than *****ing about people.

I wish sex wasn't so boring. Despite trying so many things, I have to check out and think of other people. Which feels so wrong.

I wish we liked to do similar things. I like art and theater and nature. I like dressing up, eating good food, exploring. Speaking of food, I wish I could just cook a different meal every night and have him enjoy it. Foodprep is excruciating because I love so many different things and he is the most picky human I've ever met.

And our parenting techniques are very different. He is so harsh and tough on the kids.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Also, if anyone could offer insight on sexual compatibility, that would be great. Being that he's the only one I've slept with, I very frequently question whether or not sex would be better with someone else, or if this is normal at 12 years into a relationship?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Wayward thinking, PL.

Proceed down that road at the risk of your marriage. Unless, of course, that is okay with you.

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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

PatriciaLee said:


> In addition to what I just posted above, I have some resentment over our sexual past. Out first time happened because he assumed I wasn't a virgin and just went for it without asking.
> 
> He pressures me into anal and I ****ing hate it, despite giving in a few times (including my wedding night).
> 
> I just feel a complete lack of connection with our interests and conversations (or lack there of).


Ugghhh. Did he know you hated the anal when he pushed to do more?

I think you have a lot of resentment and that is killing your attraction to him. The same thing has happened to me.

I would really urge you to read a lot of stuff at marriagebuilders.com, here is a good one for you:
The Giver & Taker

Your giver is in over drive which brings out his taker. You're actually not doing him or your marriage any favors by sacrificing a lot.

Prior to finding that website, I always did whatever my husband wanted but inside I was miserable and dreamed of a life without him. Now I let him know what I really want and think (nicely). It definitely shook things up at first but things are much better for both of us now. He treats me much better and I can tell he feels better about himself for doing that.

The other thing I learned was that my needs are quite normal for a woman. I felt "needy" if I wanted anything from him before. Now I know I'm just a normal woman and I must expect to meet his needs AND have mine met if I want a good marriage.

This is hard to do at first for the conflict averse, but becomes natural with practice. Read the book His Needs Her Needs by Dr. Harley (same website)

I also believe I'm actually more attractive to my husband when I stand up for myself and don't let him neglect me and do whatever he wants. Men respond to having to work for it a little. (Wish I'd understood that 30 years ago...)

Here are their basic concepts to see if it makes sense to you:
A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts

You will never be attracted to him as long as you are feeling resentful. And you have plenty of reason to feel resentful, but you did marry him and you can't change the past -- however, you can move forward with new standards for both of you.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

If you are just finding your voice, and he is used to you just giving him what he wants, then expect him to push back, to get you to return to the quiet and compliant person that he's used to and grown comfortable with.

This may make him even more unattractive to you.

It's pretty normal to become unattracted to someone that you don't have much in common with, and who takes you for granted.

Do you have things in common you can focus on? Is he willing to put forth some effort to keep you?


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## mravg2u (Apr 27, 2016)

Something must have attracted you to him when you chose to marry this m


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

WorkingWife said:


> Ugghhh. Did he know you hated the anal when he pushed to do more?


Yes. He knew, and he still pushed it, which did make me really pissed off and resentful (still).



> I think you have a lot of resentment and that is killing your attraction to him. The same thing has happened to me.
> 
> I would really urge you to read a lot of stuff at marriagebuilders.com, here is a good one for you:
> The Giver & Taker
> ...


Maybe the resentment is the biggest problem here. Thank you for sharing your resources. I will take a look.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

always_alone said:


> If you are just finding your voice, and he is used to you just giving him what he wants, then expect him to push back, to get you to return to the quiet and compliant person that he's used to and grown comfortable with.
> 
> This may make him even more unattractive to you.
> 
> ...


I am starting to not back down on things, which he usually takes as well as can be expected, given our history. I don't plan on continuing to be a doormat.

Honestly, there isn't much we have in common. Previously I pushed a lot of my interests aside and just went along with whatever he was doing, and now the kids have taken most of my time on top of that. 

I think that if I told him how I am feeling, he would want to work to keep us together, but at the same time, if he knew how I felt, it would destroy him and make him a lot more difficult to live with. That's why I have kept it in this long I think.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

What if you told him. Not only the what, but the why.

If he were not strong enough to try to fix it together with you, would you really want to stay with him?

Also, are you strong enough to find your voice and speak up before he kills every last thread of love you have for him?

He needs to know. Transparency is the key to a healthy relationship. Transparency is shared through communication. You two have an opportunity to truly begin doing so. Will you use it?

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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

PatriciaLee said:


> I would love for him to come home and just tell me to take off for the afternoon and get my nails done, or get a massage.
> 
> On my birthday or Mother's Day, I would love it if he'd just look after everything for the day so I could just turn off and do something for myself.
> 
> ...



Many husbands get into this rut...not the snorting and horny Moose on-the-hunt type...Rut.

The lack of desire for your spouse is more common than you think. 

I think a lot of men and women [think of] other people when they are making love with their spouse. Few would admit this. It is disloyal and cheating: Done vicariously....in their mind.

You are ripe for an affair, be careful...don't go there.

He needs to up-his-game. 

Some people are just not very romantic. Stress eats the Romantic's lunch, every time. 

Life is not easy. It is replete with dis-tractors that counter intimacy.

Read the book: "His needs, her needs." Then give it to your husband to read.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Another thing, even if there is great communication and all, you still may not be compatible. My uncle divorced his wife when my cousins left the nest. He now enjoys a more nomadic lifestyle while she remained rooted. They are both happy now with other people even though at the time the divorce was difficult. At some point in their lives, they were compatible. You have been with him since 17, and the person you transition into at present is probably a lot different than the adolescent person you were back then. At that age range, there tends to be a major shift in change mentally and emotionally.

But the first step is total transparency to figure things out to see if the bridge can be gap or not. Attraction can fluctuate through the years so things that help keep the bond strong like quality time and communication needs to remain strong.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Patricia,
Shakespeare had it right: “My tongue will tell the anger of my heart, or else my heart, concealing it, will break.”

Perhaps my young friend we might practice some TrueSpeech. 

You DO NOT GET ALONG GREAT. 

You have instead, made the choice to not fight. That is entirely different. 

The result is a half happy marriage (he's happy you aren't), without conflict and increasingly without respect or love. 







PatriciaLee said:


> I am new here and hoping some of you might be able to spread some light on my dilemma.
> 
> I have been with my husband for 12 years. He was my first and only. We are married and have 2 children. We get along great. We don't fight. He's a good dad, a hard worker and a good guy.
> 
> ...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Make your own plans on special days. Tell him what they are and tell him those days are about you and not him. Honestly, it sounds as though he only thinks about his needs and wants. The anal sex is something that he needs to get down on his knees and apologize for. He's lucky you'll have him in your bed after that stunt.


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

I would suggest setting an appointment with a marriage counselor and making sure your H goes with you. You both have a lot of resentment to work through.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

For perspective (this is not uncommon), read Esther Perel's book, Mating in Captivity. http://www.amazon.com/Mating-Captiv...&keywords=mating+in+captivity+by+esther+perel

It might also open your eyes to counter-intuitive dynamics in relationships (It surprised me, at times, at least.)

As for understanding ways we end up with resentment, I'm finding Brene Brown's book Rising Strong enlightening.

Resentment kills attraction. Avoidance of conversations about your inner experience, your hurts, what he does that bothers you, what it is you need guarantees resentment builds and the gap between you widens. Your and his views of reality get distorted, and really solving anything becomes impossible.

You must learn if you don't know already that what you need and want from your relationships is normal, you are worth it. Engage with him knowing if he fails to work as a partner towards what you both are seeking, then you are not obligated to sacrifice your happiness by staying with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

There is a lack of communication here, which has turned to resentment. 
Could be the reason for no attraction. 
I have to tell my husband things which I find uncomfortable to discuss but if I don't I get angry with him & myself. 
Your husband will think everything is OK unless you tell him otherwise. 


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

You have gotten some good advice, the best of which it if you can afford it to get to a therapist where you can voice some of the concerns you have expressed here in a "safe" environment. 
It appears you have a husband who works hard and thinks he is meeting your needs but is not, and that has turned to you checking out emotionally.

You married young and have no sexual experience with other men, but it is obvious that will change if you two do not get some help because when a woman emotionally checks out of a marriage, and starts becoming very aware of other men, you know what happens next. And you will be better off to try to get help before going down that route.

Nothnig wrong with doing things for yourself, like on your birthday or Mothers Day if you want to, but you are very vulnerable for a number of reasons to getting involved in an inappropriate relationship if you do not stay away from environments where that can easily happen.

When peolple get married very young, unfortunately at some point the questions of "is there anything I am missing out there" drifts into ones mind. That is not abnormal. How you handle it is important, and you need to start by attempting to tell your husband how you are feeling, and asking him to go get help with you before you do something that makes your situation worse.

Good luck


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

PatriciaLee said:


> I think that if I told him how I am feeling, he would want to work to keep us together, but at the same time, if he knew how I felt, it would destroy him and make him a lot more difficult to live with. That's why I have kept it in this long I think.


These are some of the most difficult conversations! You need to be true to yourself, but totally understandable that you don't want to destroy him in the process, nor deal with him lashing out or trying to keep you in the same box he's used to.

My suggestion would be to tread lightly, but to find a way to tell him how you really feel. It will no doubt hurt him, but it will also hurt him for you to just bury it until you can't take it anymore and explode. 

Growth and change is often painful, especially for someone who isn't actively seeking it, but is having to adjust to someone else's growth.

Meanwhile, see what you do have in common, if anything. And don't limit that to what you already know you like and he likes ---it's a big world, and there is always lots to learn and explore. If he is game, you may find you can grow together instead of apart. And if not, at least you can maybe find a way to part with good feelings instead of bad.


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## GiveMeHope (May 22, 2016)

Patricia- I'm facing a similar problem and it's maddening. My heart really goes out to you. It is very frustrating to feel the ability to be attracted to someone, but not be able to muster that attraction for your husband.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Patricia,
Do you want help, trying to dig out of this mess? 

Or have you given up on your marriage at this point?

Perhaps it's best to start with THE question. Which is far more easily asked, than answered. 

Is he a good person, who sometimes behaves badly? Or is he instead not such a good person? 

And for clarity, it's also worth mentioning the vast gulf between obsession and love. Obsession is a self focused enterprise. Love - is truly focused on the other person. 

While it would be convenient if obsession = bad person. That isn't always true. 






PatriciaLee said:


> I am starting to not back down on things, which he usually takes as well as can be expected, given our history. I don't plan on continuing to be a doormat.
> 
> Honestly, there isn't much we have in common. Previously I pushed a lot of my interests aside and just went along with whatever he was doing, and now the kids have taken most of my time on top of that.
> 
> I think that if I told him how I am feeling, he would want to work to keep us together, but at the same time, if he knew how I felt, it would destroy him and make him a lot more difficult to live with. That's why I have kept it in this long I think.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

MEM11363 said:


> Patricia,
> Shakespeare had it right: “My tongue will tell the anger of my heart, or else my heart, concealing it, will break.”
> 
> Perhaps my young friend we might practice some TrueSpeech.
> ...


Wow. This really hit a nerve. Everything you said is so obvious, but I never saw it that way before.

I am so grateful for everyone's advice thus far. I am very much considering counselling, even if it's just for me, to help me deal with this.

I caused a few ruffled feathers a few days ago when he started getting huffy about be going to the movies with a girlfriend. I stood my ground though and didn't do my usual, "oh, well, if you don't want me to, I won't" routine.

He got over it, and I had a good time at the movies.

I hope that we can work through this. It's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel when I seriously feel like I'd be ok if he just told me he wanted a divorce. I SHOULD NOT feel ok over something like that...


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

GiveMeHope said:


> Patricia- I'm facing a similar problem and it's maddening. My heart really goes out to you. It is very frustrating to feel the ability to be attracted to someone, but not be able to muster that attraction for your husband.


I am so sorry to hear that you are also going through this. It's devastating, moreso because there are kids involved in our case.

After my parents' divorce, I promised that I NEVER would do to my kids, what my mother did to us. And here I am....


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

MEM11363 said:


> Patricia,
> Do you want help, trying to dig out of this mess?
> 
> Or have you given up on your marriage at this point?


I don't ever want to be the one who ends this marriage. Because of my past, I will never allow myself to be the one who initiates a divorce.

That being said, in my current state, if it were an ideal world and we could just peacefully part ways, still be good parents, get along and have good lives separately, I would go for that. If he told me he was done with the relationship, I would be ok.

And having said that, I feel like complete garbage for admitting that I feel such a way. People strive for finding "the one." Having their little family, a house, a dog and a successful business. He's not a terrible person. Shouldn't I just be happy???

I don't even know what it is I think would improve in my life if we weren't together. There's just a hole there.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Patricia,
Good for you - for going to the movies. I know it's hard, when your partner gets jealous/controlling about you doing your own thing.

Let's practice - some responses. But before we do, let's address some core emotional issues. 
1. Controlling people are mainly driven by fear
2. Some of those fears are irrational (phobias)

Best thing to do with a fearful person is reassure them. Not by caving in and staying home. Offer an act of service and/or some quality time tied to what you are doing. 

I offer to stop at the grocery store on the way home and ask if she wants to walk the dog - either when I return or if it is late at night, the next day. 

If he presses the point - trying to get you to not go. Ask him: Why aren't you happy for me, getting to spend time with my friend?

And it's ok to say what's true - if he's being a jerk - which is: It makes me sad that you can't be happy FOR me. It feels selfish. 

He has to make some hard choices going forward.




PatriciaLee said:


> Wow. This really hit a nerve. Everything you said is so obvious, but I never saw it that way before.
> 
> I am so grateful for everyone's advice thus far. I am very much considering counselling, even if it's just for me, to help me deal with this.
> 
> ...


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Sorry you've had this awful experience, Patricia.
> 
> I find this to be a red flag. Anal sex is torture for you; and he keeps pushing for it. Why would anyone want to pursue a sexual practice that was agonizing for their partner?
> 
> ...


The anal sex thing has caused A LOT of resentment. Like an insane amount, and that's where this all started building from...and suddenly, things that bothered me a little in our past, suddenly bother me a lot, and I am super resentful for all those things too.

It really upsets me that he still pushes anal. It makes me feel physically ill.

And yes, I have found anal porn stuff on his phone at one time (I wasn't snooping, I was getting a website address for him and it was in his history).

I have no problem with porn either. I watch all sorts of porn, but sometimes I feel like some men think porn = reality, and it DOESN'T!


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Another thing that has been bothering me lately is his constant, "you're the best wife ever" comments.

Now, why on earth would that bug me?? Every wife would love to hear their husbands go on about how wonderful they are. He compliments me on my cooking. Tells me I am beautiful. While it does make me happy to hear it, there's is just this feeling behind it like it's forced. Or maybe in my mind I suspect he wants something?

I don't know if all the compliments are him trying to be a good husband, or what, but it doesn't feel genuine.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

It's easy to fall into victim mode. Much more difficult to hold yourself to a higher standard.

Not sure whether you are interested in examining yourself, but here's what I've noticed from your posts so far:

- You are conflict avoidant

- You are poor at communicating your needs, yet you expect your husband to fulfill them anyway.

- You are poor at establishing your own personal boundaries, then blame your husband for violating the boundaries that were not clearly defined to him

- You are actively misleading your husband, pretending to be attracted to him while imagining other men. Do you think your husband would actually want to be intimate with you if he knew that you were doing this?

- You are leading yourself to believe that your dishonesty is for HIS benefit, allowing you to double down on the victim mindset. But is it all REALLY for his benefit, or it is due to your own issues of conflict avoidance?

- You blame him for only caring about money. But what is his financial contribution to the family compared to yours? Is it possible that he seems to care about this more because it is really his burden?

- You blame him for being boring and having nothing in common with you. Is it his job to entertain you? Do you plan anything fun or is it all on him? You mention you would like for him to take care of your kids so you can go out to get your nails done. That seems reasonable, but is this what your idea of fun is? Do you have any interests that HE might actually be interested in? Ask yourself if this is a one way street where he is supposed to be interesting to you, but you have no obligation to be interesting to him.

I think if you're willing to ask yourself these types of questions and give honest answers, you might get somewhere.

If you more about just saying your husband is unattractive and boring, you probably won't.


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## philreag (Apr 2, 2015)

PatriciaLee said:


> I don't ever want to be the one who ends this marriage. Because of my past, I will never allow myself to be the one who initiates a divorce.
> 
> That being said, in my current state, if it were an ideal world and we could just peacefully part ways, still be good parents, get along and have good lives separately, I would go for that. If he told me he was done with the relationship, I would be ok.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but you are the one ending the marriage. You are so close to being a WAW. He will be crushed not even realizing the problem has gotten so bad that his wife will leave him and break up the family. 

Just leave him before he invests more time trying to make you happy. You will be able to live separately, co-parent, and maybe even be friends. But what if he doesn't want that. What if he would do anything to keep his family together, even losing who he is to please you? Would you be happy? Probably not.

And the question "Shouldn't I be happy?". How does your husband respond to that? "Yes" so bye or "No" you shouldn't be happy. He is in a no win situation. 

Sorry for the rant but I'm just a bit past where your husband is now and it sucks. I have a son and it sucks for him too. Its sucks for our families and friends too.

But at least you'll be happy or so my STBXW tells me.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> I completely sympathize with you.
> 
> Don't have an answer; but I know how you feel.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your support. 

To be completely honest, our sex life has had a lot of troubles. Early on, it was good (horny teenagers having sex for the first time, yay!), but I developed vaginitis and for years, sex hurt almost all the time for me. I had a lot of trouble at that time with the same feelings of, "maybe we're not sexually compatible, etc." There was nothing that I could do. I still had sex, again, to keep him happy.

After I had kids, the vaginitis resolved and sex actually feels really, REALLY good. It has taken me a lot of work mentally to not associate sex with pain and negativity. 

I was getting to a really good place, and now the whole anal thing has caused me a lot of unhappiness. Honestly, it makes me insecure because I feel like I'm probably not as "tight" as I was pre-babies (I was so tight before I had kids that I think it was a huge cause of the pain issues I had), and so he wants anal instead.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Uhhh... while I know I have a lot to work on, I think you're misinterpreting a lot of what I have said.



Anon1111 said:


> It's easy to fall into victim mode. Much more difficult to hold yourself to a higher standard.
> 
> Not sure whether you are interested in examining yourself, but here's what I've noticed from your posts so far:
> 
> ...


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

PatriciaLee said:


> Uhhh... while I know I have a lot to work on, I think you're misinterpreting a lot of what I have said.


I think that your husband is a jerk. I think he is a lot of stuff to fix. 

However, I cannot argue with one point that @Anon1111 made.

For years you sat there tight lipped, taking what a controlling jerk was giving you, making a huge pot of resentment stew. 

I said it before. You have created 1/2 the problem in this dynamic. I hope you honestly hear more than sympathy for you from the people who have taken the time to post. Otherwise, I can promise you your marriage will end or remain the same.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

the only recurring point that makes any sense is the anal.

and even on this point, OP did agree to it in the past, and even admits setting this up as some kind of reward for expected behavior.

so it does not seem that she has been crystal clear on establishing a boundary.

it is totally reasonable to not be interested in that.

but it's also understandable why her husband might not realize it is 100% off the table.

particularly given that OP has admitted she avoids conflict and is a poor communicator.

I wonder if OP has ever said:

"Look, I know I said yes to this in the past and that might give you some sense that I might say yes again. But I want you to know this really hurts me and I can't do it anymore. It's not personal to you-- it just physically hurts."

If she's actually delivered this message and been consistent about it, then I would conclude her husband is a jerk.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

philreag said:


> Sorry, but you are the one ending the marriage. You are so close to being a WAW. He will be crushed not even realizing the problem has gotten so bad that his wife will leave him and break up the family.
> 
> Just leave him before he invests more time trying to make you happy. You will be able to live separately, co-parent, and maybe even be friends. But what if he doesn't want that. What if he would do anything to keep his family together, even losing who he is to please you? Would you be happy? Probably not.
> 
> ...


I am so sorry to hear you have had to go through a recent split.

The reason I came here though was to try to find a way to sort this out. To figure out if how I feel will pass. If I can work through my problems in an effort not to make it end.

Given my limited relationship experience, I have no idea if this is normal or if it can be worked out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

I read the same posts as Anon and Farside.

I see a woman who wants to be married to a mind-reading Prince Charming. 

Oh a mind reading Prince Charming who shares all HER interests

Oh a mind reading Prince Charming who shares all HER interests and maybe inherited money so he can be casual about money while still providing for his family.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Anon1111 said:


> the only recurring point that makes any sense is the anal.
> 
> and even on this point, OP did agree to it in the past, and even admits setting this up as some kind of reward for expected behavior.
> 
> ...


So, the one time I "bargained" was when I wanted a dog. Something he does not want more than anything. I jokingly said that Id give him anal when I get the dog (he was pestering me about doing it, so I came out with that offer, figuring he would drop it).
Then I let him do it. There was no mention of the dog.

After that, I flat out told him that he is NEVER getting it again. I told him that I hate it. That it hurts (he tells me I just need to relax more).

Occasionally he tries to finger around there mid-sex and to be honest, i would probably enjoy that, except I have told him how much I dont want anal, so it just makes me feel violent inside that he keeps going past that boundary.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> Uhhh... while I know I have a lot to work on, I think you're misinterpreting a lot of what I have said.


only you know the answers to these questions.

I'm just reacting to what you've written.

Most people here have been cheering on your victim mindset and I am giving you the other side.

You obviously can ignore me.

The flipside to what you've described is that you've got a nice, stable husband who is devoted to you and fully supports you. 

He still appears very interested in you despite the fact that you're not very interested in him.

He also appears to have flaws and is probably pretty boring.

In fairness, you can't really control whether you find him attractive.

But you can control whether you BLAME him for being unattractive.

And you can take ownership for your role in arriving at this place in your life where you are married to a guy you're not so into. No one forced you to be here.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> So, the one time I "bargained" was when I wanted a dog. Something he does not want more than anything. I jokingly said that Id give him anal when I get the dog (he was pestering me about doing it, so I came out with that offer, figuring he would drop it).
> Then I let him do it. There was no mention of the dog.
> 
> After that, I flat out told him that he is NEVER getting it again. I told him that I hate it. That it hurts (he tells me I just need to relax more).
> ...


would you say it was his fault that he thought you were open to it based on what you described above?

have you ever been VERY explicit in explaining how, even though you've done it before, it hurts and you want him to know that it's 100% off the table no matter what?

finally, are you certain it's not just because it's HIM who is asking? 

in other words, would it be 100% off the table if one of these other guys (who you ARE attracted to) was asking?


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Middle of Everything said:


> I read the same posts as Anon and Farside.
> 
> I see a woman who wants to be married to a mind-reading Prince Charming.
> 
> ...


Wow... while I totally get my huge responsibility in this mess, you are just being an ass.

I am not asking him to read my mind or only be interested i what I like or whatever else you want to assume. 

I am not looking for perfection. Im looking for a way to mend the holes that we have both created.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

PatriciaLee said:


> Wow... while I totally get my huge responsibility in this mess, you are just being an ass.
> 
> I am not asking him to read my mind or only be interested i what I like or whatever else you want to assume.
> 
> ...


Perhaps I was a bit of an ass.

But I didnt see you owning that you both created it before.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Patricia,
It's time to try and put the anal sex thing to sleep. Permanently. 

So here's the funny thing about controlling people. They often have serious impulse control issues.

While what I said before - is still true. Best thing to do with controlling people is reassure them. 

This situation however calls for a slightly different approach. 

And while normally - my style is to wait for a patterned event to repeat - and then respond - that's not really appropriate here. 

The best move here - go for a nice long workout so you're calm. 

And then just real casually ask him: Husband, Are you actually glad you married me? 
After he says yes....

Ok. That's good to know. I'm going to explain something to you. When I'm done, you only have one SAFE move which is to nod. You will likely want to talk. Very bad idea. 

If you change your mind, want to get a divorce, just ask me for anal sex or talk about how much you want it. That way I will know we are done. Are we 100% clear on that point now? 

--------

Patricia, the thing is - you can't be walking around wondering the next time he's going to bring this up. Not fair to you. 

If he argues, or tries to play dumb - just - smile aday be silent. Don't argue, don't debate. Just be silent. Not a word. 






PatriciaLee said:


> The anal sex thing has caused A LOT of resentment. Like an insane amount, and that's where this all started building from...and suddenly, things that bothered me a little in our past, suddenly bother me a lot, and I am super resentful for all those things too.
> 
> It really upsets me that he still pushes anal. It makes me feel physically ill.
> 
> ...


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## philreag (Apr 2, 2015)

Patricia,

In my short time being on TAM, I find it not a place sympathetic to a WAW or cheaters.

While we all will try to help, we want you to work on and fix your marriage. You have a good husband and there is no infidelity, so there is a chance you can salvage it. That is, if you want to and that is the big if. If you don't want to, tell him and let him go.

You can always have an exit affair, that may force him to let you go.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> Wow... while I totally get my huge responsibility in this mess, you are just being an ass.
> 
> I am not asking him to read my mind or only be interested i what I like or whatever else you want to assume.
> 
> ...


What do you think he needs to do?

What do you think you need to do?

CAN he actually do anything, or is it just an issue of you being totally unattracted to him?

Are the things you are blaming him for REALLY expressions of your lack of attraction for him?

In other words, if he did everything you would like, could you actually see yourself being attracted to him, or would you still not be interested?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Gosh - I think somehow I got lost. 

Could have sworn I was in a thread where the husband tries to bully his wife to prevent her from going to a movie with her friend. 

And tries to pressure her into anal sex despite knowing she hates it.

How about we see if those HUGE issues can be addressed before we start being judgemental over her lack of desire. 





Anon1111 said:


> What do you think he needs to do?
> 
> What do you think you need to do?
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Patricia,
Of course it does. One minute you're the best wife ever. The next he's trying to keep you from going to the movies. 

Are you the the best wife ever because:
1. He loves you as an independent person with your own goals and preferences.
2. You are his most prized possession 





PatriciaLee said:


> Another thing that has been bothering me lately is his constant, "you're the best wife ever" comments.
> 
> Now, why on earth would that bug me?? Every wife would love to hear their husbands go on about how wonderful they are. He compliments me on my cooking. Tells me I am beautiful. While it does make me happy to hear it, there's is just this feeling behind it like it's forced. Or maybe in my mind I suspect he wants something?
> 
> I don't know if all the compliments are him trying to be a good husband, or what, but it doesn't feel genuine.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

And I could have swore that the two were not mutually exclusive. 

They are hard questions. But they are far from being unfair _or_ unwarranted.



MEM11363 said:


> Gosh - I think somehow I got lost.
> 
> Could have sworn I was in a thread where the husband tries to bully his wife to prevent her from going to a movie with her friend.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Patricia,
I am not excusing his behavior. I do think offering anal sex so he would agree to get a dog - likely confused him. 

So you absolutely have to un confuse him. But it might be best to take responsibility for your part in that earlier incident. 

And it's ok to tell him - not to touch you back there going forward - until you say otherwise. 






PatriciaLee said:


> Another thing that has been bothering me lately is his constant, "you're the best wife ever" comments.
> 
> Now, why on earth would that bug me?? Every wife would love to hear their husbands go on about how wonderful they are. He compliments me on my cooking. Tells me I am beautiful. While it does make me happy to hear it, there's is just this feeling behind it like it's forced. Or maybe in my mind I suspect he wants something?
> 
> I don't know if all the compliments are him trying to be a good husband, or what, but it doesn't feel genuine.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I have no idea what's going on with Patricia and her husband.

We are hearing her side. It's maybe 100% unvarnished truth and it's maybe self serving.

My position is that she's better off taking a look at herself first. If her husband was here, I would tell him the same thing. 

She can actually address whatever shortcomings she has. Whether her husband will do anything she'd like him to do is really beyond her control.

It's also quite common for people to be inclined to see faults in others who they aren't feeling so hot toward. People tend to excuse a lot more from people who they are head-over-heels for.

So, again, I have no idea, but it's possible that Patricia's husband seems "controlling" to her because she generally has no attraction toward him. 

In that context, maybe almost any type of interaction strikes her as grating. For example, even when he compliments her, it seems annoying.

He might actually be annoying, controlling, all of that. Or he might be a nice guy and just oblivious that his wife doesn't really like him. If it's the latter, it would be a shame if Patricia blamed him for that.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

He needs to change or he is going to lose you. But, you cannot change him. All you can do is set clear limits and boundaries and enforce them, and attempt to communicate better what you want and need. If you become more adept at that, a close loving relationship becomes possible -- with him if he grows into it, or through acceptance of and following through on the need to leave.

There is no shame in having tried to accommodate his wishes and avoid conflict in the past. We do what we know and hope will work out for the best. Learning through experience it is not sustainable, and that it feels better and works better to unambiguously assert and honor what you need can change your life in ways you might not have known were within reach, for the better. I'm reading Brene Brown's Rising Strong right now, and she covers that nicely.

IMHO, if part of you feels choosing to leave is not allowed, how could you ever feel free to be happy as you stay? I could imagine in myself such self-imposed constraints would give less conscious parts of myself motivation to sabotage the relationship enough the other would be the one to leave. I share btw the sometimes-wish my wife would take the steps away I have yet found courage and clarity to take. I'd think it is pretty common. I mention it only as something to ponder, not an accusation.

Personally, I think you should tell him he does not understand something extremely important, it is killing your desire to be intimate, and unless he wises up the damage will become impossible to repair. It happens.

Lookup "sexual aversion" on the marriage builders site, and the policy of joint agreement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Anon1111 said:


> I have no idea what's going on with Patricia and her husband.
> 
> We are hearing her side. It's maybe 100% unvarnished truth and it's maybe self serving.
> 
> ...


I very much agree with your opinion on my situation. I was a lot more willing to "let stuff go" back when we were freshly in love. A lot of the things that never really bothered me are now driving me insane.

This is why I wanted to ask outside opinions on the situation. I know I want to work on myself as much as I can to ensure that what I am feeling is authentic and not just a result of some other crap I've been burying. I know my husband is a good person. He's not perfect, no one is, but for a number of reasons, I am finding it exceedingly difficult to see past his faults as of late.

I guess a reason I wanted other opinions is so I could figure out if what I am feeling is valid, or if I am just being silly and need to suck it up and deal with something that is normal for a relationship of this long.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Just because something is "normal" doesn't mean you feelings are invalid.

Indeed, your "go to" solution seems to be to tell yourself to "suck it up", to give way to avoid causing conflict or ill feeling. 

Listen to your feelings, they are giving you important information. And if you keep pushing them down, they will likely rise up in more and more drastic ways.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

always_alone said:


> Just because something is "normal" doesn't mean you feelings are invalid.
> 
> Indeed, your "go to" solution seems to be to tell yourself to "suck it up", to give way to avoid causing conflict or ill feeling.
> 
> Listen to your feelings, they are giving you important information. And if you keep pushing them down, they will likely rise up in more and more drastic ways.


Thank you. Reading your assessment of the situation makes me realize a bit of the internal dialogue I have with myself sometimes. I need to change that up...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Patricia,
You ought to make a list of what's bothering you.

And prioritize it. It's important to - see how things tie together. Because they often do. 

For example, a 'lack of common interests' might be a small issue or a huge issue. It's a small issue if he encourages you to pursue your interests independently or with your friends.

It becomes a MUCH bigger issue if he perceives the pursuit of those things as a 'threat' and pressures you not to do them.

That said, you may or may not be contributing to this issue. If you reliably do the stuff your responsible for pertaining to the family - it is easier to isolate the issue - to him being controlling. 

If however he comes home to a trashed house and the kids wanting dinner as you head out the door to do something important to you - that creates a more complicated situation. 

Google 'behaviors of controlling spouses' and see what fits. 






PatriciaLee said:


> I very much agree with your opinion on my situation. I was a lot more willing to "let stuff go" back when we were freshly in love. A lot of the things that never really bothered me are now driving me insane.
> 
> This is why I wanted to ask outside opinions on the situation. I know I want to work on myself as much as I can to ensure that what I am feeling is authentic and not just a result of some other crap I've been burying. I know my husband is a good person. He's not perfect, no one is, but for a number of reasons, I am finding it exceedingly difficult to see past his faults as of late.
> 
> I guess a reason I wanted other opinions is so I could figure out if what I am feeling is valid, or if I am just being silly and need to suck it up and deal with something that is normal for a relationship of this long.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> I very much agree with your opinion on my situation. I was a lot more willing to "let stuff go" back when we were freshly in love. A lot of the things that never really bothered me are now driving me insane.
> 
> This is why I wanted to ask outside opinions on the situation. I know I want to work on myself as much as I can to ensure that what I am feeling is authentic and not just a result of some other crap I've been burying. I know my husband is a good person. He's not perfect, no one is, but for a number of reasons, I am finding it exceedingly difficult to see past his faults as of late.
> 
> I guess a reason I wanted other opinions is so I could figure out if what I am feeling is valid, or if I am just being silly and need to suck it up and deal with something that is normal for a relationship of this long.


As others have said, these are real issues-- definitely don't ignore them. 

The other possibility is that you're BOTH good people, but you just aren't in love anymore through no fault of either of you. 

You can't control what you're attracted to. Your husband can't fundamentally transform his personality. He can make adjustments around the edges but he will not become a completely different person. 

You CAN ask yourself questions about whether you're both being fair and kind to one another. You should each expect that of yourselves and that is within your control even if your attraction to each other is not. 

If you think he's not being fair and kind to you, then you should identify this to him. I would suggest starting from the standpoint that whatever he is doing is not intentional- just like you are not intentionally losing attraction for him.

You could say, "I'm not sure if you notice, but when you give me a hard time about doing things by myself, it makes me feel bad. I enjoy doing things with you, but I also need some time to myslef too. Does that make sense?"

Then the next time he gives you a hard time, just remind him of this conversation and don't engage in an argument (walk away). 

You should anticipate some adjustment period if he is really going to change his habits. But if over time you consistently see no attempt on his part to address the issue you've kindly (and consistently) identifiedn then you should feel confident that it won't be resolved.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnDoeRobot (May 25, 2016)

"I guess a reason I wanted other opinions is so I could figure out if what I am feeling is valid, or if I am just being silly and need to suck it up and deal with something that is normal for a relationship of this long."

My 2 cents:

Unfortunately the answer to your predicament is both "You are right to feel this way" and "You are being a bit silly and need to suck it up". Let me explain: on one hand all the glitter around your husband is long gone and now you have to live with some guy and all his defects. Plus the guy is being a complete a-hole regarding his back door demands (pun intended). Just annoying and inconsiderate. Should you just drop him like a hot potato and look for butterflies in your stomach with someone else? Probably not.. or, at least, not yet. You have invested a lot of time in this guy and you have children with him. And the butterflies with anyone new will also eventually die. Just the nature of the beast. 

So... you are going to have to put a bit of work to make this fun again. First, gain some power in your stay at home mom relationship. Slim down, eat healthy, exercise, wear sexy clothes, be flirtatious, start doing something outside of the house (like going back to school), meet new people, do interesting things... get your game up (yes, even busy moms can be super sexy and interesting). Your husband needs to know he can't take you for granted and -without threatening him- you will let him know he isn't the only fish in the sea. His response will be immediate: he will also up his game. He will be nicer to you and be the best he can be. Only after you are both the best you can each be... and you truly realize you are not compatible with each other.... then you are both better off parting ways. You will also be in a much better position to meet someone new. But I doubt it will happen. You fell for each other already once... you guys will probably do it again


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Anon1111 said:


> As others have said, these are real issues-- definitely don't ignore them.
> 
> The other possibility is that you're BOTH good people, but you just aren't in love anymore through no fault of either of you.
> 
> ...


Thank-you for this advice. It has been very well-received. I am worried that I am simply not in love anymore, but I am willing to work hard at this to make sure I have explored all avenues before giving up.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

JohnDoeRobot said:


> "I guess a reason I wanted other opinions is so I could figure out if what I am feeling is valid, or if I am just being silly and need to suck it up and deal with something that is normal for a relationship of this long."
> 
> My 2 cents:
> 
> Unfortunately the answer to your predicament is both "You are right to feel this way" and "You are being a bit silly and need to suck it up". Let me explain: on one hand all the glitter around your husband is long gone and now you have to live with some guy and all his defects. Plus the guy is being a complete a-hole regarding his back door demands (pun intended). Just annoying and inconsiderate. Should you just drop him like a hot potato and look for butterflies in your stomach with someone else? Probably not.. or, at least, not yet. You have invested a lot of time in this guy and you have children with him. And the butterflies with anyone new will also eventually die. Just the nature of the beast.


We have worked through a multitude of problems over the years, so I am not easily going to just toss him aside (given that he works on things as hard as I am trying to). I honestly don't want to go through building and establishing a new relationship elsewhere. The thought is terrifying. I want to give this everything I can, and I hope that my feelings for him will return. I don't want the butterflies, I just want to be attracted to him!



> So... you are going to have to put a bit of work to make this fun again. First, gain some power in your stay at home mom relationship. Slim down, eat healthy, exercise, wear sexy clothes, be flirtatious, start doing something outside of the house (like going back to school), meet new people, do interesting things... get your game up (yes, even busy moms can be super sexy and interesting).
> 
> 
> > See, I haven't exactly been slacking in this arena. Besides being a SAHM, I help operate our business. I am skinnier than I have ever been (I lost all the baby weight both times, despite the lack of faith he had in me). I dress nice. I romp around the house naked or in lingerie. I started taking ballet class.
> ...


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## JohnDoeRobot (May 25, 2016)

The other thing you should be doing is some deep and honest self-analysis to figure out what turns you on. We tend to unload too much of the responsibility of our own arousal on our spouses. The paths for arousal are many times complicated, and very much unique to each one of us. A reflection of so many things deeply embedded on our brains. Usually our partners are just triggers and props in our own sexual mental scripts. We tend to pick partners/spouses that are compatible with our sexual mental scripts and predispositions (I can go very deep in this but probably not on this thread..)

Anyway, my point is that a better understanding of what turns you on might help you figure out how your husband fits in your current picture.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> Thank-you for this advice. It has been very well-received. I am worried that I am simply not in love anymore, but I am willing to work hard at this to make sure I have explored all avenues before giving up.


there are different kinds of love.

there is the instinctual love that comes at the beginning of a relationship. this is hard to distinguish from lust.

this type of love can fade. The experience of its fading is sad and can feel like you are sinking into quicksand. 

But if you can acclimate to this feeling, its fading can make room for a different kind of love which is less intense, but is based more on respect and a DECISION to love your spouse, flaws and all, based on who he/she is as a person-- not based on some urge within you.

this type of transition is very difficult and in many ways it is much easier to attempt to recreate the initial lust/love with another person.

but as others have said, the same thing will probably happen over time with anyone and at a certain point in your life you may no longer have the option to jump into the lust pool again.

so if you take a long term view, you may decide to see whether the different, companion type of love can develop, and if this will be enough for you.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> We have worked through a multitude of problems over the years, so I am not easily going to just toss him aside (given that he works on things as hard as I am trying to). I honestly don't want to go through building and establishing a new relationship elsewhere. The thought is terrifying. I want to give this everything I can, and I hope that my feelings for him will return. I don't want the butterflies, I just want to be attracted to him!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

So, there was a bit of an "event" last night, and I don't know that I responded properly...

We had sex. It was decent. We changed things up a bit on his request.

After we were done and came back to the living room, he sat beside me and started asking questions (questions that weren't direct, but obviously implying things). When it came down to it, he flat-out asked me if I was attracted to him anymore. He said when we have sex, sometimes I just close my eyes and don't even look at him or say anything(which is true, and I have been that way for a LONG time, not just recently). I just kind of avoided the first part of the question (looking) and said that I don't like having sex with the lights on, or like to talk because I am just enjoying how it feels and I find all those other things over stimulating (which is a half truth).

Eff Eff Eff....

I know that I had an opportunity to be honest with him and tell him that my attraction isn't there, but should I even do that?? What would it help. I think it would damage him permanently to know that his wife doesn't find him attractive.

Did I do the right thing?!


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

IMHO, you should have told him the truth. He opened the door, and gave you a wonderful opportunity to talk heart to heart about what's going wrong and why.

Honest question: are you really avoiding telling him because of worries you will destroy him, or are you trying to protect yourself from having to deal?

If the latter, don't forget that you are going to have to deal with those feelings one way or the other.

And if the former, perhaps there actually is more there between you than you are seeing right now.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Patricia,
You are not even close to ready - for that conversation. 

Good chance you have it now - it will totally lack balance. 

You need a lot of practice - learning to deal with difficult issues in a direct and balanced manner. 

You seem very avoidant - when it comes to dealing with the specific issues you are dealing with. 

Two kinds of folks on TAM. Those whose primary focus is sympathy, and those whose main goal is to work on their situation. 






PatriciaLee said:


> So, there was a bit of an "event" last night, and I don't know that I responded properly...
> 
> We had sex. It was decent. We changed things up a bit on his request.
> 
> ...


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

MEM11363 said:


> Patricia,
> You are not even close to ready - for that conversation.
> 
> Good chance you have it now - it will totally lack balance.
> ...


I don't know if I have ever disagreed more with you, Mem.

Now she has to explain the lack of attraction AND lying to him.

And she once again avoided the issue. The same thing that has allowed this situation to get as advanced as it has.

A_A has this one nailed.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

All that needs to be said at this point is the truth: It's not working for me right now, and I don't know why.

This then opens another door, one that helps Patricia discover why and her husband to consider what if anything he might do about it.

It need not destroy him (unless he is very fragile). She has lots of positive things to say about him too.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Only two types of conversation. 

Backward looking: which sound like this: you suck because you did XYZ

Forward looking: It would be good for our marriage if you did more of abc and less of XYZ going forward.

Even - I 'might' feel more desire if you did more of, and less of - going forward

Saying: I'm not attracted to you and you suck because you've done abc to me in the past - might be unrecoverable

Being honest is good. Just be constructive. 

Or get divorced if there is no faith it can improve. 





farsidejunky said:


> I don't know if I have ever disagreed more with you, Mem.
> 
> Now she has to explain the lack of attraction AND lying to him.
> 
> ...


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

always_alone said:


> All that needs to be said at this point is the truth: It's not working for me right now, and I don't know why.
> 
> This then opens another door, one that helps Patricia discover why and her husband to consider what if anything he might do about it.
> 
> It need not destroy him (unless he is very fragile). She has lots of positive things to say about him too.


This.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Only two types of conversation.
> 
> Backward looking: which sound like this: you suck because you did XYZ
> 
> ...


I was just re-reading the beginning of this thread, and based on that could amend my initial suggestion as follows:

"I'm not feeling it right now because I don't feel like I have a proper voice in this relationship."

Or

"I'm not feeling it right now because I feel like I'm always compromising to what you want, and letting myself be treated as a doormat."

Maybe it is not as forward looking or instructive as you would like, but it allows her to admit to her feelings openly. And certainly doesn't shut the door on a solution.

Some people can be both working through their own issues AND sympathetic, all at the same time.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

It still withholds truth to spare feelings.

He needs the truth as much as she needs to share the truth.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Yes

That's good. 





always_alone said:


> I was just re-reading the beginning of this thread, and based on that could amend my initial suggestion as follows:
> 
> "I'm not feeling it right now because I don't feel like I have a proper voice in this relationship."
> 
> ...


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> It still withholds truth to spare feelings.
> 
> He needs the truth as much as she needs to share the truth.


It may work better as an exploratory conversation than a simple unloading...

But did you have something in particular in mind?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

It's dangerous to go from behaving in a wildly deceitful manner, to raw unfiltered truth. 

Jokingly offering to trade a backdoor encounter for permission to buy a dog - and then claiming that not only do you hate that type act - but so much so that you have open ended resentment over it.

She ought to gradually share this stuff - and own her part in it. 

Gradually - doesn't take a year. Or even a month. Maybe 3-4 conversations over a single week. 

I'm also beginning to believe that - Patricia is avoiding certain topics because there are pieces of this puzzle she doesn't want to discuss. 





farsidejunky said:


> It still withholds truth to spare feelings.
> 
> He needs the truth as much as she needs to share the truth.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

always_alone said:


> It may work better as an exploratory conversation than a simple unloading...
> 
> But did you have something in particular in mind?


I think your approaches were perfect.

Truth AND being about the future.

I saw it as a win/win.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

always_alone said:


> IMHO, you should have told him the truth. He opened the door, and gave you a wonderful opportunity to talk heart to heart about what's going wrong and why.
> 
> Honest question: are you really avoiding telling him because of worries you will destroy him, or are you trying to protect yourself from having to deal?
> 
> ...


I know i should have told him, but how do you even do that??

And yes, I didn't want to say, "yes I am not attracted to you anymore," because I do not want to hurt him. It's a pretty devastating thing to hear from someone!



always_alone said:


> All that needs to be said at this point is the truth: It's not working for me right now, and I don't know why.
> 
> This then opens another door, one that helps Patricia discover why and her husband to consider what if anything he might do about it.
> 
> It need not destroy him (unless he is very fragile). She has lots of positive things to say about him too.


How I wish I had this advice before. I think that's the most honest and gentle way of going about it. 

One way or another, I will address this with him. I know it is going to really cause problems, but it can't be worked on if it isn't in the open .


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

MEM11363 said:


> I'm also beginning to believe that - Patricia is avoiding certain topics because there are pieces of this puzzle she doesn't want to discuss.


Like what, exactly? I have been pretty darned open and forthcoming here....


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

PatriciaLee said:


> I know i should have told him, but how do you even do that??
> 
> And yes, I didn't want to say, "yes I am not attracted to you anymore," because I do not want to hurt him. It's a pretty devastating thing to hear from someone!
> 
> ...


Husband, there are things that are happening that are killing my attraction to you...."

Notice present tense as opposed to "killed".

This is what Mem was saying about moving forward versus being in the past.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Wow, amazing how so many of the male posters are dumping on Patricia.

Yes Patricia, you will stop avoiding conflicts and assert yourself. Hence forth, you will be very clear on what you secretly desire from him. 

-Grow a vagina girl friend! Sounds like your beginning to get one, bravo on that, but your husband has demonstrated a distinct lack of observational skills and a tendency to railroad you. If you don't speak up for yourself, your husband will never ever stop being a douche bag.

-Mother's Day! When my kids were little my husband continually blew it until one Mother's Day that just was horrible. From that point on I made a new rule for Mother's Day which was: Leave Mom Alone while the home and kids still get the care and attention they need. This means husband got them up, fed, dressed and engaged in something while I woke slowly with a coffee in bed. Later on, if husband wanted to visit his mother (which was perfectly acceptable to me) he would do so without me because I would be engaging in activities that I enjoyed without worrying about anyone else at all. The best Mother's Day I ever had was that following year when he woke me with a cup of coffee, got the kids dressed, packed a picnic breakfast and we all went for a hike and picnic entirely planned and prepared by him! I loved it! It was more than 20 years ago and he hasn't ever attempted to duplicate it- because clearly he saw how effing hard it was to to get something like that going! (Yet I did stuff like that all the time.)

-Anal sex. Tell him if he brings it up ever again he is essentially telling you that his sexual contentment is more important than yours and you don't want to have any sex with someone who doesn't value your pleasure as much he values his. You've given it a few tries and not only does it do nothing for you, it hurts. He has bullied you in the past and the only way to deal with a bully is to get right in their face with you're boundaries and consequences.

Resentment is a b!tch. It doesn't go away easily. Once you've built a decent amount, more and more pile on. Resentment will kill your marriage. Resentment has killed your attraction. Your husband is dumb and he has no idea the swirling river and anger and disappointment that flows through you. He cannot address your resentment until he knows it's there. Once he knows it's there, he will have to own his part. This is where the men here at TAM have gone off track. They think they get a pass for being stupid. They don't. You have managed to meet all of your husbands needs, voiced and unvoiced because you care about him and want him to feel secure in your love for him. But he has not done the same for you because he hasn't put effort into knowing you as a woman and a wife. 

Men seem to enter marriage thinking all they need to do as a good husband is to A) be a provider B) come home on time and sober C) kill spiders, take out the trash and fix a few things. They think this because men don't talk about relationships like women do. Women gush to girlfriends and talk about how he said this, did that, looked, treated you... Men talk to their buddies about she's hot, she's smart, good with kids and small animals, isn't high maintenance. They do not say, she makes me feel competent because she always asks for my advice about... They don't discuss emotional needs so they don't know this concept. Women absolutely know this concept. Do men get a pass for this? Fvck no! Do women get pass for not knowing sex is a vital part of marriage and a husband will be unhappy if he doesn't get sex often enough? Yes we know this, so why don't men know their part?

OMG I wrote a book! Sorry about that.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Okay I just retread my post. Patricia, do you hear how angry my post sounds? This is you in 15 years if you don't find a way to be completely honest and up front on what you need and want from him.

I get that you're searching for a gentle and helpful way to address your concerns, and I'm sure you've already been given superb advice about it. Now the question is will you take this advice and tell your husband everything you need to say or will you avoid the issues and end up as angry as me in another 10-15 years?

Your marriage could have a major awakening, or you could be building a coffin by skating around the issues. 

Avoidant people are not easy going. They lie to themselves thinking it's better to go along and get along because hurting someone's feelings is a horrible thing to do. Let me suggest something to you... It wasn't until you were continually hurt at being marginalized and under appreciated, while going without you needs being met that you started to grow a vagina. Hurt caused your growth. Hurt usually does cause growth. How do you expect your husband to grow if you avoid things that may hurt his feelings?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Far,
Part of why Patricia - is afraid to speak - the list of disconnects is so daunting. It's an overwhelming chasm between them.

If she started speaking - she has no idea where to stop. 

Reason I suggested - a surgical approach to this. The first incision is intended to make her more visible to him. 

But - he's not much of a listener - so she needs to get his attention. 

Probably best to ask him: Do you WANT to try and create more physical desire in this marriage? 

Now he may get defensive - try and revisit the earlier convo - try and gain the upper hand by saying she wasn't real honest with him. 

She ought to shut that down. Fast. It isn't hard. 

Carrot: hey, I'm offering you a helping hand - might improve our marriage. Do you want it? 

If he keeps debating...

Stick: If you want to turn this into some court room styled debate, I'm taking the fifth - good luck figuring this out on your own. 

Carrot: One more time. I'm offering you a helping hand. Do you want it? 

----------
At some point - he's going to want to know - what is inside that helping hand. He's going to say - yes

Thing is, a guy like this is pretty sure - that hi$ good job, and lack of drug/alcohol or cheating - makes him desirable. 

Only way to get through to him - get him to ASK for help. 

First question is the simplest in form, and the most painful in content.

Why don't you feel happy FOR me, when I do things I like to do, with friends?

This is not a small or medium size thing. This is a huge thing. It ties back to a LOT of his bad behavior. 





farsidejunky said:


> Husband, there are things that are happening that are killing my attraction to you...."
> 
> Notice present tense as opposed to "killed".
> 
> ...


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Anon1111 said:


> the only recurring point that makes any sense is the anal.
> 
> and even on this point, OP did agree to it in the past, and even admits setting this up as some kind of reward for expected behavior.
> 
> ...


My view is that it hurt her more emotionally than physically.

generating huge amounts of regret for betraying herself and self worth and now insurmountable resentment. Enough to kill the love for her husband.

OP if he doesn't get hip to this I regret to say file now before you do foolish things to make matters worst.

Something that would make co parenting untenable.

55


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

You do not tell your spouse that you are not attracted to them anymore unless you are leaving. There is no taking that back. 

So how do you deal with the issue? You find ways other than just laying it out there. You figure out what is impeding the attraction that you once had. You work on it. 

The shame is that OP did not seize on the opportunity to address this when he raised it. But the way that he raised it was an all or nothing after some good sex. 

So he feels the gap that she feels. He is aware. Find a way to open the discussion and move forward. Lay out what must happen to improve the marriage and work those


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

You can turn towards your husband with the truth, and hope he turns towards you to figure out together, if possible, how to reset the relationship so love and desire can survive and grow.

Or you can turn away from him and ensure the distance grows.

I've heard lots of hurtful and uncomfortable things from my wife in the last several years. I'm thankful for the truth, and have various degrees of negativity for the lies. Didn't feel good at the time, to be sure. But, truth is the only thing that could possibly work.

If you are looking for something to try together, consider listening to Esther Perel's book Mating in Captivity. It might help you both realize this situation happens in many marriages.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mav13 (May 31, 2016)

I am new here and a guy. I am in the same situation you are in. I know my wife has no desire to have sex but will not admit it. Honestly I wish she would just admit it fully to me, and get it over with. She knows I know but just can't say it. It is destroying our marriage anyways, might as well just to honest with each other.

Now I am in therapy and doing the hard work to fix my issues, none of which will change her attraction and I know this but I am doing it for me to be a better man.

Bottom line I think you need to straight up tell him the truth it is going to hurt but it sounds like he already knows anyways. What does your life look like in 5 years if you don't tell him, the same place? Resentment just keeps building. If you talk it out atleast you are honest and can make a decision as a couple as to what you want to do, atleast I wish that's what my wife would do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

OP it seems like your lack of desire for him is tied directly to your disappointments with him. From what you described he's better than a lot of guys. You have to understand that no person can meet all of your needs. A lot of guys who are super romantic probably wouldn't work as hard and provide as well for your family. Yea flowers and spoiling is fun but we'll see how fun it is when you are broke. Seems like you want the perfect guy which doesn't exist. Do you work as well? Also, ask yourself this question. How will you deal with it when you tell him that you are no longer attracted to them and he takes his "good looking" successful self out and finds somebody younger and better looking than you who is attracted to him. Trust me when I tell you that there are women out there who will want him and if you think that's not the case then you live in a fantasy world. I'm not trying to be mean here but you have to look at this holistically. You must be honest with him but you should focus on your issues with him and not the attraction thing. Maybe if he fixes these things the attraction will come back. I'm not picking on you OP but this is one of the reasons why guys don't want to get married in the first place.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

PatriciaLee said:


> I am new here and hoping some of you might be able to spread some light on my dilemma.
> 
> I have been with my husband for 12 years. He was my first and only. We are married and have 2 children. *We get along great. We don't fight. He's a good dad, a hard worker and a good guy.*
> 
> ...


In addition to the bolded you said that he tells you how beautiful you are, tells you that your are special, and compliments you. He's also not a bad looking guy. I'm sorry OP you are playing with fire right now. I'm just being honest here. If I were you your husband and you told me that I would probably start looking for appreciation and desire elsewhere.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Nice guy,

The list below - is not a recipe for intimacy or a strong bond 

1. Controlling
2. Low 'playfulness quotient'
3. Narrow range of interests
4. At times very selfish sexually 

A lot of guys on TAM complain women are only with good providers - for the meal ticket. 

Thing is - you act like this - you aren't giving a partner much reason to really be bonded to you....







niceguy28 said:


> In addition to the bolded you said that he tells you how beautiful you are, tells you that your are special, and compliments you. He's also not a bad looking guy. I'm sorry OP you are playing with fire right now. I'm just being honest here. If I were you your husband and you told me that I would probably start looking for appreciation and desire elsewhere.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

MEM11363 said:


> Nice guy,
> 
> The list below - is not a recipe for intimacy or a strong bond
> 
> ...


Nobody is perfect. I'm pretty sure she has her flaws to. Also remember we are only getting her side of the story. If this is what it takes for her to be done with him then that's what it is I'm just saying that the OP needs to be ready for him to say screw and find somebody who will appreciate him for what he is. That's what I'd do.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

NG28,
I honestly believe - your viewpoint represents that of a fairly big chunk of the male populace. 

So her best move, if her H is like you, is to keep biting the pillow until she literally can't take it anymore and simply stops sleeping with him.

I've written extensively about sexless marriages. They often follow certain patterns. 

This is one of those patterns. 





niceguy28 said:


> Nobody is perfect. I'm pretty sure she has her flaws to. Also remember we are only getting her side of the story. If this is what it takes for her to be done with him then that's what it is I'm just saying that the OP needs to be ready for him to say screw and find somebody who will appreciate him for what he is. That's what I'd do.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

OP, when you're imagining other people you're attracted to while having sex, who is it?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> So, there was a bit of an "event" last night, and I don't know that I responded properly...
> 
> We had sex. It was decent. We changed things up a bit on his request.
> 
> ...


I think you did OK.

I'm not sure you need to give him the ultimate "I'm not attracted to you" message at all.

First, figure out what he can do to make it better and work with him to give him a chance to do that. 

make it out to be a joint project that will have joint rewards.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I for one (being a male) respect the fact that Patrica is being honest with her feelings about her husband, i think it is just as likely to fall out of love as it is to fall out of attraction. The question is how handle it in a constructive manner, and that i believe requires individual therapy in order to better understand the changes.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

First, AnonPink, thank you so much for sharing your perspective. I really appreciate it.

*


Tortdog said:



You do not tell your spouse that you are not attracted to them anymore unless you are leaving. There is no taking that back.

Click to expand...

*See, that is how I feel right now. Telling your partner that you're not attracted to them could seriously ruin things in the long haul. I can't imagine being on his end and trying to get over that, or ever believing that my spouse's attraction returned, if it did.

I just want to try to figure out what can be done to get it back (if possible) and work from there, not destroy his world.
*


niceguy28 said:



OP it seems like your lack of desire for him is tied directly to your disappointments with him. From what you described he's better than a lot of guys. You have to understand that no person can meet all of your needs. A lot of guys who are super romantic probably wouldn't work as hard and provide as well for your family. Yea flowers and spoiling is fun but we'll see how fun it is when you are broke. Seems like you want the perfect guy which doesn't exist. Do you work as well? Also, ask yourself this question. How will you deal with it when you tell him that you are no longer attracted to them and he takes his "good looking" successful self out and finds somebody younger and better looking than you who is attracted to him. Trust me when I tell you that there are women out there who will want him and if you think that's not the case then you live in a fantasy world. I'm not trying to be mean here but you have to look at this holistically. You must be honest with him but you should focus on your issues with him and not the attraction thing. Maybe if he fixes these things the attraction will come back. I'm not picking on you OP but this is one of the reasons why guys don't want to get married in the first place.

Click to expand...

*Again, I do not know why people are getting the impression that I am looking for "Mr. Perfect." I am probably one of the more understanding people you will meet. I am realistic and understand that people have flaws. My relationship has had imperfections in the 13 years we've been together and we've maturely worked towards improving those things.

I absolutely know what a great guy he is. That is not the issue. Women flirt with him all the time and I simply don't care. I know there would be a long line of women waiting to take my place.

The attraction thing is not something I can simply turn back on because he's a great guy. I am here, wanting to figure out a way to get this back, not fix all his imperfections.

This is the problem, he could be prince charming, but right now, that still wouldn't make me want to jump his bones.

*


SecondTime'Round said:



OP, when you're imagining other people you're attracted to while having sex, who is it?

Click to expand...

*
People I know (?) I've never been into being attracted to celebrities or anything like that...

*


Xenote said:



I for one (being a male) respect the fact that Patrica is being honest with her feelings about her husband, i think it is just as likely to fall out of love as it is to fall out of attraction. The question is how handle it in a constructive manner, and that i believe requires individual therapy in order to better understand the changes.

Click to expand...

*Thank-you. I am seriously considering counselling if this continues. Part of me is just hoping these stupid feelings will pass with time or I will figure out a way to regain my attraction (or find a way to happily accept all the good things in my life rather than focus on this one, disappointing problem).


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I have no good advice for you. I just wish you well.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

My wife once told me that she was not physically attracted to me. She was pissed. She had a right to be. But she was being honest. 

I am a good looking and fit guy. But her type is the 300 pundits offensive lineman. I am a rock climber. She was attracted to me because of my ambitions, my religious views, my emotional state and character. One of our first dates, she saw the strength in my upper body (slender guys who are fit show lots of muscles) and she said to herself, "I could do that." 

I have never forgotten what she said in anger. It hurts most because I know that's how she really thinks. What I have had to wrap my brain around is that she married me because of the total package. It isn't just physical attraction for her. 

But it still sucks. Wish that I had never known.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

That being said, if you are like most women then there are multiple components of the attraction. You need to figure that part out. Now, and apologies if I missed it... 

What attracted you to him in the past?


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Tortdog said:


> That being said, if you are like most women then there are multiple components of the attraction. You need to figure that part out. Now, and apologies if I missed it...
> 
> What attracted you to him in the past?


Thank you for your honesty. I am sorry that you are dealing with the pain of your wife not having a physical attraction 

For me, a lot of attraction to people is not physical. It's their personality, their attitude.

I don't often see a man and think, "holy, he's hot," but when I do, that person tends to be tall, well dressed, strong arms, nice hair.

Hubby doesn't totally fit that description (he's shorter, doesn't dress bad but is typically just a jeans and t-shirt kinda guy, etc). But I don't think it's that big of a deal.

Personality-wise, I love people who have a lot of life in them. Not obnoxious, but witty, sharp and upbeat.

When my hubby and I met, we were teenagers. I had not dated many "quality" guys prior to him. I wasn't initially physically attracted to him, but he was good looking. Being teenagers and him being a nice guy from a good family, and I being from a disastrous family, I jumped in to the relationship with both feet. Also contributing to that desire to jump in was the fact that he took my virginity before we were even officially dating. We were messing around one night and he just went for it, later admitting that he didn't think I was a virgin. He never asked, he just did it, which to this day I have a hard time dealing with. I very much was holding on to my virginity and felt like that control was taken from me.

In the beginning of our relationship, I was attracted, of course, but I think a lot of that was due to the fact that I was a horny 18 year old having sex for the first time. I didn't know what I wanted, what type of guy I really was attracted to, etc.

I have loved him madly over the years though. He makes me proud to be his wife. He's incredibly intelligent and an amazing businessman. He loves his kids. He loves me.

There are parts of his personality I don't care for (and have actually influenced who I am in many ways) but I am now starting to stand up to those things and take myself back. Rather than agreeing with everything, I am speaking up and allowing myself to have an opinion.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

"Went for it"?

Did you tell him no?

Or did you bite the pillow?

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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> "Went for it"?
> 
> Did you tell him no?
> 
> ...


I don't have the best memory, but that moment is something I remember like it was yesterday.

He literally slid down my pants, put it part of the way in, I said, "no," to which he replied, "do you really want to stop now? it's already in."

And at that point I rationalized that if this was going to be my "first time" I might as well complete the whole thing. And I did enjoy it... but I am stupidly hung up over the fact that it wasn't my choice of when it happened.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

PatriciaLee said:


> I don't have the best memory, but that moment is something I remember like it was yesterday.
> 
> He literally slid down my pants, put it part of the way in, I said, "no," to which he replied, "do you really want to stop now? it's already in."
> 
> And at that point I rationalized that if this was going to be my "first time" I might as well complete the whole thing. And I did enjoy it... but I am stupidly hung up over the fact that it wasn't my choice of when it happened.


That pisses me off. 

Your resentment is years in the making, and it's not wrong. In the meantime, you have got to start telling him when you don't want to do things. Learn how to tell him no, for the sake of both of you. Teach him how you want to be treated.

You two need to be in counseling ASAP.

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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

I think you need solo counseling first where you open your heart to someone who will listen and not judge.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> That pisses me off.
> 
> Your resentment is years in the making, and it's not wrong. In the meantime, you have got to start telling him when you don't want to do things. Learn how to tell him no, for the sake of both of you. Teach him how you want to be treated.
> 
> ...


He's going to just laugh at me if I even suggest counselling. I brought up the virginity thing a few days ago and he kind of scoffed at my insinuation about not liking how it happened.

Like I have said, I am no longer putting up with doing **** I am not wanting to do anymore. He's going to get used to me saying no to things.

I also brought up the anal thing and flat out told him multiple times that it will never happen again. Just by his attitude, I can tell he doesn't want to believe that, or isn't taking me seriously, but I made it clear that it's not happening.

Now when we're having sex, I just wait for him to try to fiddle around in that area. It's like I am waiting for him to try it and I am ready to flip out over it. I'm coming to realize that I don't trust him when we have sex (but in the same regard he's always asking what position I want, etc). There are so many layers of problems going on here.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

He scoffed at it?

"Husband, a couple of days ago I tried to approach something with you that hurt me tremendously. You dismissed it. Actions like this are exactly what's led me to lose my attraction for you. When you are ready to hear my heart without being judgemental or dismissive, and be willing to go to counseling with me, I will reconsider resuming our sex life. But until those two things happen, we will not be having sex because I can't stand the thought of somebody who treats me that way being intimate with me."

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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I think you will be better able to get to where you want to be if you approach this as a joint project to build up your marriage rather than a combative approach of righting past wrongs.

stuff happened in the past that you're not happy about. it's fine to not be happy about it, but it happened. acknowledge it. express to your husband clearly that, although you may not have been clear about it in the past, it bothered you, but you want to move on.

part of moving on means that you will do a better job to communicate your needs and boundaries. part of moving on also means that he will hear and respect what you communicate.

frame it as something that will improve your relationship rather than something that will settle old scores.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, I think the vast majority of your marital issues, including the lack of attraction for your husband, are a result of what seems to be a general lack of respect. You don't feel heard, valued, or respected by your husband. You don't trust him, sexually or emotionally, because he's dismissive of your concerns, needs, desires, and boundaries. It can be pretty hard to feel attracted to someone you don't trust. 

Personally, I think you need to work on yourself so that you're strong enough to hold your own boundaries and refuse to allow him to dismiss you. He likely won't like this new you, but it's more important that you are able to like and respect yourself. You may find he's eventually willing to change in response to you being stronger, having better boundaries, and refusing to accept disrespectful treatment. As he treats you better, there's a chance you two can perhaps build trust and rebuild attraction. 

On the other hand, there's also a chance that he won't find a stronger, less malleable, version of you to be at all appealing. That he digs in his heels and refuses to change at all and the problems in your marriage escalate. If that happens, you may find that the marriage becomes untenable. Honestly, I still think it's more important that you can like and respect yourself enough to have good boundaries and healthy self-esteem.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

PatriciaLee said:


> Thank-you. I am seriously considering counselling if this continues. Part of me is just hoping these stupid feelings will pass with time or I will figure out a way to regain my attraction (or find a way to happily accept all the good things in my life rather than focus on this one, disappointing problem).


If you don't care about him and other women and their is no jealousy at all then I'd say just be upfront with him and deal with the consequences. The fact that you don't care about him and other women taking your place says a lot. You only have one life and if you are miserable then you should probably move on so that the both of you can find the people that you both deserve.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

PatriciaLee said:


> I don't have the best memory, but that moment is something I remember like it was yesterday.
> 
> He literally slid down my pants, put it part of the way in, I said, "no," to which he replied, "do you really want to stop now? it's already in."
> 
> And at that point I rationalized that if this was going to be my "first time" I might as well complete the whole thing. And I did enjoy it... but I am stupidly hung up over the fact that it wasn't my choice of when it happened.


Wow, I'm so sorry Patricia. 
What an awful first time experience you had. 
And when you tried to explain recently he just shut you down. 
God it's no wonder why you've not attraction for him, he sounds uncaring towards your sexual needs. 
He needs to learn how to "woo" you sexually in a caring manner. 

If it was me, I would write a very lengthy letter to him stating how I felt during all these times & how he needs to accept responsibility & starting repairing & caring towards me sexually. 

Question, has he ever cared about your orgasm during sex?



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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

@Tortdog I'm sorry to hear your wife said that to you. 
You're correct she married because you're the whole package, be worse if it was just based totally on looks. 



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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

niceguy28 said:


> If you don't care about him and other women and their is no jealousy at all then I'd say just be upfront with him and deal with the consequences. The fact that you don't care about him and other women taking your place says a lot. You only have one life and if you are miserable then you should probably move on so that the both of you can find the people that you both deserve.


I would normally agree with this, BUT...

She has kids and is married to what appears to be a somewhat decent guy, albeit one that is a bit insensitive and disrespectful. They have a history of being able to work things out together. So far, her H is blissfully unaware that his marriage is slowly heading off the edge of a cliff. And I am not ready to call him a lost cause just yet. 

It is still fixable IMO.

Patricia, I would like to urge you to get into some therapy to help you deal with your resentment. Your husband certainly isn't helping things, but it is killing your marriage and you two need to change the dynamic and develop some tools to work through it. 

The fact that you are attracted to a bunch of other guys and people you know, but just not him is not an indicator that you are in a healthy place. You acknowledge that you had a horrible childhood. If it is as horrible as you say, you had better be very careful that you aren't letting that dictate your future. FOO baggage can easily cloud one's judgment and could potentially put you in a position that is much much worse than where you are now. 

If you and your husband can get through this, and you guys learn how to deal with your resentment and whatever other issues you may have, I feel pretty confident that you will be in a much better place long term. Starting over is NOT fun, and there are a lot of crazies and unhealthy folks out there that could take advantage of you... 

I fear that if you called it quits now without trying through it, you may very well make a bad situation worse. I'd hate for you to quit too early and sit back later on and regret hurting yourself, your H and your kids. There is a lot at stake.

Put your H on notice that things aren't good. The relationship isn't working for you in many ways and that change will be required for you to stick around. 

Read some of the books that have been recommended. Share them with your H. 

If he doesn't show any interest make it clear that that sends a message to you that your happiness and contentment in the marriage don't appear to mean jack $hit to him...and that tells you everything you need to know.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Thanks again everyone for your advice.

I bit the bullet and had a talk with him last night.

We didn't address all of what is on my mind, but I cleared a lot of things. He was very understanding and open about things that have been bothering him too.

I feel good that we had the talk, but I still feel like there's a big hole. I am hoping that our intention of working on things and getting more involved in each-other's lives will start to turn my feelings around.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Do you mind laying out the things you covered?

Also, I am glad he was receptive.

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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Nice going. 

Rome wasn't built in a day. There's time to slowly work through these things.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Now that I have a little more time, I will share a what we discussed.

I started the conversation by asking him if he ever felt as if we weren't on the same level sexually.

He said that sometimes he feels like I never want to have sex, although lately it has been good (I just stopped breastfeeding our son 4-5 months ago and prior to that my sex drive was non-existent and while we were still having sex pretty regularly, he could tell I didn't really want to). 

I told him I'd like it if he could initiate sex or affection more. I can understand why he's been put off lately since I am only now getting "back to myself" after having our son, but I would appreciate him trying more, and I will not turn him down.

I CLEARLY and seriously told him that there will never, ever be anal again. I told him how it made me resentful towards him. I expressed that I understood that he might like it and I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but I am never going to want to do it. He said that he felt bad about how it made me feel, and that he didn't really like it anyways (which I don't necessarily believe, but whatever).

I talked about how we don't have a lot in common and that sometimes I don't feel like we have much of a connection. A lot of that is probably due to the last 5 years being spent with small children as our priority, so it has been easy to get caught up in work/kids and not us. We're going to try to get out once a month or so just the two of us.

He tried to suggest that I should go hunting with him, etc this fall and, while I do like to occasionally tag along pheasant hunting, I don't really enjoy it like he does. I made it clear that these are things that aren't something I necessarily look forward to like he does. I'm hoping that maybe we can find things that we BOTH like to do, rather than me just doing something that he likes to do, even though I'm not really into it (like I have always done).

We ended up having sex after. I still felt like I didn't want to be doing it.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

MrsAldi said:


> Question, has he ever cared about your orgasm during sex?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


Yes. When I was breastfeeding and had no sexual desire, he would mention how it bothered him that I never orgasmed or wanted oral sex. I just explained to him that it was just my hormones and that I had not desire for anything (not even masturbation).


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Tron said:


> I would normally agree with this, BUT...
> 
> She has kids and is married to what appears to be a somewhat decent guy, albeit one that is a bit insensitive and disrespectful. They have a history of being able to work things out together. So far, her H is blissfully unaware that his marriage is slowly heading off the edge of a cliff. And I am not ready to call him a lost cause just yet.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your support and advice.

In regards to my childhood, I wouldn't say it was horrible, but it was really quite sucky. To sum it up, my Mom left my Dad when I was 8. My Dad took my brother and I in, but I essentially became the mother to my brother by age 10. I had NO childhood. I was never allowed to be with friends, I had to be home, responsible for my brother, cooking and keeping house. As soon as I was 18, I ran from there as fast as I could (and my husband and I started dating when we were 17).

I still have a lot of issues with my mother and my feelings towards her. To say I have resentment is an understatement. We have a decent relationship now, mostly for the sake of my kids, but I feel nothing towards her. She's like an acquaintance. How I feel towards her is why I NEVER want to end up divorced or splitting my family up. This is why I am so devastated about how I am feeling. I don't want to feel like this. I want to be a happy family. I never want my kids to feel towards me how I feel towards my mom.

I also have issues with my Dad (surprise). At 38 he got an 18 year old pregnant, resulting in my sister. He always compared me to my mom. Put me on birthcontrol at 14 (despite the fact I was not sexually active until almost 18), he had warped views of women. Drank a lot, disregarded how I felt about anything, and let my brother run wild while i was stuck at home.

My husband seems to think that my dad "isn't that bad. He looked after you, blah blah" like because he was a single dad, he deserves me cutting him slack. He sees how many Christmas's I cry because he calls me, drunk. Or how many birthday's he doesn't bother even texting me. 

If you haven't already noticed, I have a really hard time forgiving people.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Patricia, that was a healthy discussion. Well done initiating it.

However, the only thing that is standing out to me is your still having sex with him when you don't want to. 

How do you see that playing out when you are struggling with resentment? 

Also, you said you actually wanted it more? Where did that come from?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> Now that I have a little more time, I will share a what we discussed.
> 
> I started the conversation by asking him if he ever felt as if we weren't on the same level sexually.
> 
> ...


good job. 

may already be obvious, but try to focus on the _intent_ rather than the precise words or actions.

are you both trying to really hear each other?

are you both trying to understand each other?

are you both trying to be closer?

on the hunting thing, for example-- the takeaway should be that your husband wants to include you in something that is important to him. the hunting part is very secondary. it is about him trying to be closer to you.

if you really are into another person, almost anything you do together can bring you closer.

I get that you want to do things you like (and you should), but if you really want to get closer, you will want to join him in his world too.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> Patricia, that was a healthy discussion. Well done initiating it.
> 
> However, the only thing that is standing out to me is your still having sex with him when you don't want to.
> 
> ...


I guess my intention of having sex with him was that:
1. We just got done talking about how he never wants to initiate because he doesn't want to feel rejection/like he's harassing me

2. If we're not having sex at all, how can I work on me enjoying it with him?

As for your last question, do you mean where did my desire to want to have sex more come from?


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Anon1111 said:


> good job.
> 
> may already be obvious, but try to focus on the _intent_ rather than the precise words or actions.
> 
> ...


The point in me stating that I don't always want to hunt, or shoot arrows, or fish was me standing up and saying, "I don't enjoy doing these things all the time," whereas before I just kind of went along with whatever he wanted, rather than us doing something that I want to do for a change.

It's always been the restaurants HE wants, the activities HE wants, the everything HE wants. 

I have no problem with doing things he likes, but I want to do things I like too. I have really limited my life experiences by following him around without question. This is something that I decided I would (politely) take control of more but expressing that I don't enjoy these things as much as he does.

I have compromised a lot of my wants for his benefit, and I am done doing that. I'm not going to be a *****, but I am taking control of my life a bit more.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

PatriciaLee said:


> I guess my intention of having sex with him was that:
> 1. We just got done talking about how he never wants to initiate because he doesn't want to feel rejection/like he's harassing me
> 
> 2. If we're not having sex at all, how can I work on me enjoying it with him?
> ...


Yes, that was my question.

As the HD in my own relationship, I can appreciate your increased effort.

However, just be cautious and keep a close eye on your resentment. While the bonding aspect is good, building further resentment is just taking the proverbial bank account farther into the red.

As for taking control of some things for you, excellent. Know your boundaries and communicate them clearly, without anger, and I suspect he will adjust to the new norm rather quickly. Emotion in enforcing can make the situation much worse before it becomes better.

Just food for thought.

I think you have taken a very strong step in the right direction.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> Thank you for your support and advice.
> 
> In regards to my childhood, I wouldn't say it was horrible, but it was really quite sucky. To sum it up, my Mom left my Dad when I was 8. My Dad took my brother and I in, but I essentially became the mother to my brother by age 10. I had NO childhood. I was never allowed to be with friends, I had to be home, responsible for my brother, cooking and keeping house. As soon as I was 18, I ran from there as fast as I could (and my husband and I started dating when we were 17).
> 
> I still have a lot of issues with my mother and my feelings towards her. To say I have resentment is an understatement. We have a decent relationship now, mostly for the sake of my kids, but I feel nothing towards her. She's like an acquaintance. How I feel towards her is why I NEVER want to end up divorced or splitting my family up. This is why I am so devastated about how I am feeling. I don't want to feel like this. I want to be a happy family. I never want my kids to feel towards me how I feel towards my mom.


Here is the thing...with your resentment, your general attitude and your FOO issues you have been working your way to being a WAW.

And you don't know how many times we have heard the words here..."she said she would never be like her mom", "she never could cheat because of what her mom did" "she would never treat her family the way her mom treated them" only for the WAW to do precisely that. 



PatriciaLee said:


> I also have issues with my Dad (surprise). At 38 he got an 18 year old pregnant, resulting in my sister. He always compared me to my mom. Put me on birthcontrol at 14 (despite the fact I was not sexually active until almost 18), he had warped views of women. Drank a lot, disregarded how I felt about anything, and let my brother run wild while i was stuck at home.
> 
> My husband seems to think that my dad "isn't that bad. He looked after you, blah blah" like because he was a single dad, he deserves me cutting him slack. He sees how many Christmas's I cry because he calls me, drunk. Or how many birthday's he doesn't bother even texting me.
> 
> If you haven't already noticed, *I have a really hard time forgiving people.*


Oh yes!!!

And you just served up the perfect recipe for a co-dependent headed for a MLC blow-up of their entire life. Seriously! 

Have you had any IC? I think this should be a first step.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Taking care of your family (alcoholic dad, sister, brothers, etc.) at your age was totally unfair. You did not have a childhood. You did not have a the opportunity to experience young adulthood. I want to express my sympathy. That really sucks. 

And I think all of that impacts you and where you are right now, more than you know.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Patricia,

Huge positive step. Well done. 

It is important for you to tell him: I want to budget X hours a week for things that are important to me. If you want to join me on some of that, I would like that. If not, I need you to support me doing those things either solo or with a girlfriend. 

------
You need to practice golden rule conversations such as: 
I wouldn't want you to give up hunting, just because it's not really my thing. We don't need to do everything together. We DO need to support each other's passions. 

And push comes to shove - he's grinding you on the schedule:
This desire to control my schedule, will kill my desire for physicality.






PatriciaLee said:


> The point in me stating that I don't always want to hunt, or shoot arrows, or fish was me standing up and saying, "I don't enjoy doing these things all the time," whereas before I just kind of went along with whatever he wanted, rather than us doing something that I want to do for a change.
> 
> It's always been the restaurants HE wants, the activities HE wants, the everything HE wants.
> 
> ...


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## Mike6211 (Jan 18, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> If you haven't already noticed, I have a really hard time forgiving people.


http://www.amazon.com/How-Forgive-S...49502-9185832?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0

"A practical way to make true progress past the dead end of resentment"


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> The point in me stating that I don't always want to hunt, or shoot arrows, or fish was me standing up and saying, "I don't enjoy doing these things all the time," whereas before I just kind of went along with whatever he wanted, rather than us doing something that I want to do for a change.
> 
> It's always been the restaurants HE wants, the activities HE wants, the everything HE wants.
> 
> ...


that's totally fair.

To be honest, it wasn't clear to me that you always do whatever he wants.

but since that is the case, you're perspective makes sense.

I think what you need to account for though is that asserting your independence is a major shift in the dynamic.

if he doesn't 100% embrace it initially, it may just be because he needs some space to adjust. 

again look for overall intent. is he demonstrating to you that he understands the big picture and wants to work with you to resolve it?


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## Nederlandsk (Jun 6, 2016)

It sounds like your marriage is basically solid. You just have unmet needs and it causes frustration because you want to avoid conflict. He on the other hand sounds like he works hard being the provider and finds home a safe haven to unwind and relax and wants to maintain the status quo at your expense although he may not realize that due to your reluctance to voice your opinions/wants needs.

Think back, what attracted you to him to want to fall in love and get married? Those basic things are probably still there, justed masked by your frustrations.

You, even though are married, are still your own person. Have you thought about treating yourself to a message, or getting your nails done to make you feel good? How about club wear? Arrange for someone to watch the kids, dress up provocatively and wait for him to come home from work. Let him see the side of you that wants out. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Just thought I would stop by for an update.

I have had a number of conversations with my husband. I haven't come out and said that I am not attracted to him, but I did express how I felt so hurt by the anal sex thing, how I felt like we have so little in common, how I would like him to initiate things more, etc.

We've gone out to supper and spent a little more time together.

I still have this huge, sickening space inside of me that feels like it's impossible to get over these feelings that I am having. I am trying so hard to appreciate his good qualities and trying to find things about him that will push away all of these negative feelings, but they're still in the back of my mind.

I feel so rotten for feeling this way. I don't want to be this person. I don't want to be someone with a failed marriage. I don't want to be the cause of pain for my husband, kids, and extended family and friends. I just want to turn all of this noise off and not feel this way. It's driving me crazy, almost to the point where I have wanted to just scream out that I don't find myself attracted to him and that I can't do this anymore.

Can someone reassure me that if I keep trying, this will get better???


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Ouch.

It has to be frustrating that the only reasons you can come up with to stay with him are the wrong ones.

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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

It's frustrating that I can't get my head sorted. He's a great guy.

He tries to be patient with me. He has been trying to be more patient in general. He's incredibly business savy and such a successful business owner. He runs a well respected company. He isn't bad looking (although as I have said, I am not attracted). He is dedicated to providing a good life for our family. He is very hard working.

For some reason, I can only focus on all the negative feelings that he's made me feel and all of the things he does that I don't like.

I. don't. want. to. feel. like. this.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

You need counseling. They can help you navigate the resentment you are still holding.

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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

This is a tough one, sorry I haven't read through this thread completely but have you explained how you feel towards your husband? I know it's an extremely difficult thing to bring up, but it's something that likely has to be discussed at this point. If you don't find your husband attractive that's going to make a fulfilling marriage difficult.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> We ended up having sex after. I still felt like I didn't want to be doing it.


Why are you wasting his time and yours? Just file for divorce already.

You are checked out. You're not coming back to the relationship.

You have hit the point of no return. Why continue this charade?!?


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> You need counseling. They can help you navigate the resentment you are still holding.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


:iagree:


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

If you were him and he was you, would you want to know the truth?

The truth has its own beauty. 




PatriciaLee said:


> It's frustrating that I can't get my head sorted. He's a great guy.
> 
> He tries to be patient with me. He has been trying to be more patient in general. He's incredibly business savy and such a successful business owner. He runs a well respected company. He isn't bad looking (although as I have said, I am not attracted). He is dedicated to providing a good life for our family. He is very hard working.
> 
> ...


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> Just thought I would stop by for an update.
> 
> I have had a number of conversations with my husband. I haven't come out and said that I am not attracted to him, but I did express how I felt so hurt by the anal sex thing, how I felt like we have so little in common, how I would like him to initiate things more, etc.
> 
> ...



these are huge feelings that will take time to process.

you are uncertain as to whether changes will actually result.

your prior method was avoidance. now you are confronting problems and it is scary. heightened anxiety regarding this new approach is to be expected.

imagine that you have just opened up a closet door that was filled with junk. for years you just tossed stuff in there and shut the door hoping it would go away. it didn't and now it is all coming crashing out.

focus on the fact that you are now cleaning out this closet. you ignored it for years but now you are actually solving the issue.

every time you start to get freaked out, pause and consider that you have just identified another piece of "junk" that you are now removing from this closet and letting go of permanently.

it is necessary to face these things before they will go away.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

MEM11363 said:


> If you were him and he was you, would you want to know the truth?
> 
> The truth has its own beauty.


Patricia:

I am going to speak for myself (and many, many men) when I say this.

You are my largest fear. You. What do I mean by "you"? A wife who, after years of marriage, looks at me and tells me that she hasn't loved me or been attracted to me for years, and stayed with me because I was safe, stable, successful, and good with the kids.

I could handle being left. I could handle being told the truth when it becomes the truth. But my wife remaining with me for years, while having no emotional or physical intimacy, while she knows she is not attracted to me, as I struggle to find a way to reconnect, is the stuff of nightmares; to find out I have been living years of a giant lie. 

Not only are you deceiving him, but you are robbing him of some of the best years of his life in which he could be seeking out a partner who actually does love him, cherish him, and find him attractive.

I am not trying to lay it on thicker than it already appears to be for you. I am trying to get you to grasp the concept that he is owed the truth, and then allow the chips to fall where they may. 

Right now, you are robbing him of the ability to have all of the information to make an informed decision. Why? Because it might not work toward your favor. You are manipulating him for your own benefit. 

By any definition, Patricia, please tell me how that is not selfish.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Patricia:
> 
> I am going to speak for myself (and many, many men) when I say this.
> 
> ...


I get where you are coming from with this on one level, but I don't think she is being selfish because this is actually a struggle for her.

She is not just saying, "it's his problem."

I do think that a sincere effort at resolving stuff should include discussions with her husband where she helps him to understand the magnitude of the problem.

I don't personally think there is much point to dropping a nuclear bomb on him in the form of "I have zero attraction for you and haven't for years."

If instead, she frames it as follows, it would convey the same point in a productive way 

"I am having a really hard time in our relationship due to my built up resentment, so things that I wish would come naturally to me really aren't at this point. I want to turn that around, which is why I am sharing this with you."


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Anon1111 said:


> I get where you are coming from with this on one level, but I don't think she is being selfish because this is actually a struggle for her.
> 
> She is not just saying, "it's his problem."
> 
> ...


At no time have I indicated that she is saying it is only his problem. 

However, whenever we withhold information from someone for fear of how they may choose to act, we are manipulating the situation. 

This is being done purely out of self-interest. By definition, that is selfish.

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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> At no time have I indicated that she is saying it is only his problem.
> 
> However, whenever we withhold information from someone for fear of how they may choose to act, we are manipulating the situation.
> 
> ...


I definitely think Patricia should ask herself this question and be honest about it.

It is very easy when you feel resentful to justify being self centered.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

PatriciaLee said:


> It's frustrating that I can't get my head sorted. He's a great guy.
> 
> He tries to be patient with me. He has been trying to be more patient in general. He's incredibly business savy and such a successful business owner. He runs a well respected company. He isn't bad looking (although as I have said, I am not attracted). He is dedicated to providing a good life for our family. He is very hard working.
> 
> ...


He sounds like he's somewhat boring and predictable to you, which can make sex very boring and predictable. And you say that there is no conflict, no fighting, which doesn't always mean a healthy relationship. It's important for two people to have disagreements and then come back together. It can create a tension between the two, a healthy tension. Now, if you're fighting all the time, that is not healthy, but conflict and working to resolve it, can make things exciting. If you stop just going with the flow, you might see that things will either get better, or he won't like that about you. I think that's probably where it comes from, that he and the relationship have become boring, and thus you just don't feel all that aroused by him. Spend some time discussing your feelings with him, and you may have to be raw and honest if you want to see some change. Hope things get better.


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## philreag (Apr 2, 2015)

She's gone.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Yesterday was a bad day. For whatever reason, all of this became way more than I could handle any longer.

When my husband got home from work, I told him that I "needed help."

He, not surprisingly, has felt like things have been "off" for some time now.

I feel better that he knows, but absolutely sick to my stomach over how hurt he is. He's not an overly emotional guy, but right now, he's a mess and it is killing me. I feel absolutely disgusted with myself that I have made him feel like this.

I am going to my first counselling session tonight.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Patricia:

What did you tell him? "Needed help" is kind of vague.

And if what you told him is the truth, you should NOT be disgusted with yourself. 

Ignoring why you feel how you feel is what has allowed this to fester. Feel it; acknowledge it; communicate it to him.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> Patricia:
> 
> What did you tell him? "Needed help" is kind of vague.
> 
> ...


I told him that I wasn't happy with anything. Not with him, not with my family (my parents), etc. I told him that I feel no real connection with him, or desire, and that because I have been so resentful over so many things (both regarding him and my family) that it has made it difficult for me to be happy about anything. I feel like a negative, hateful person, and that is not who I am.

He is terrified that I am going to leave him. I have reassured him that I want to do everything that I can to work this out.

Something that I didn't mention prior was that when we were dating, back in our University days (8 years ago), we split up for about a month (at my request). I, admittedly was having some mental health issues and that was a big component to that split. 

He is terrified that we're heading for that again, and this time we have kids involved.

That is not what I want, but I am extremely unhappy and have no connection with him right now. I am hoping that seeing the counselor will help me sort this all out.

He says he will support me through all the help I/we need to get. 

Through our night's-long conversation, he expressed so many times that he loves me, but I still feel like it isn't genuine. All I could hear were the comments about him taking the kids if I try to leave, and how he needs me to help him run the business. He told me he needs to tell his dad about this (he needs someone to talk to) and I am mortified. They are more my parents then my own are... I don't know how I am ever going to face them knowing that they know about this.

I am utterly terrified that I will go through therapy and still feel like this.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Get HIM some romance instruction Man-uals. Read them yourself after he does. 

Tell him why you want him to read them....."Dear, we need to spice up our marriage, can you read this for me? I will read it when you are done"

"His Needs, Her Needs" by Willard Hartley might be a good one to start with. 

Other posters here will recommend some.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Patricia:

I am incredibly proud of you. Incredibly so. What you did took a TON of courage.

Stop worrying about how something looks. That is part of what got you here to begin with. He needs someone with whom to vent. That is okay. If his parents love you, they will be supportive of this process. 

Next, do nothing rash. This took you years to build. Mavash once stated that every time our loved one does something to us that causes us to love them less, and we do not bring it to their attention, it adds a brick. Before you know it, the wall is so high that you can no longer see over it. 

It will take some time, work and help to tear down that wall. Please give yourself all of them for the greatest chance of success.

One more thought. Please tell me if I am way off base, because I am speculating here. Your actions of not acknowledging what your husband was doing to hurt you is indicative of a possible lack of self worth. We see it every now and then on TAM. Someone with no self worth actually sabotages their relationship because they do not feel worthy to be loved by that person. Again, this totally may not be you. But just watch for it.

Keep posting, Patricia. This place will levy a 2x4 in a heartbeat over B.S., but will also support the holy hell out of you when you are legitimately trying to make things better.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Patricia you took a HUGE step, you opened up and i get he is scared and nervous and at times unhinged, and sometimes when people fall into those feelings they are like a drowning person holding on to just about anything (kids, father, etc...) so while you assessing your next step understand that he is feeling lost at the moment, but given time and on going communications between the both of you, you can help yourselves and each other....don't forget your a team. I am glad your going through IC but i also think you need to have counseling together as well. So that he can learn what he needs to do support you and what you need to do to support him. hope that makes sense.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

I am so sorry Patricia that your life has seemingly blown to pieces. 

It is ok. You talking about it with us and with your H is a good thing. Going to counseling is a good thing. And if your H's family are good people, them knowing about it is going to be a good thing. They may surprise you and rally around you. That support is invaluable.

Your H is a good guy and is willing to help you. You have a lot going for you. 

I believe that there are some things in your history or FOO that need to be worked through. I have a strong suspicion that this isn't just about the relationship with your H. If the counseling needs to be intensive, a few times a week, etc. then do it. And be completely open and honest with your counselor. Figure out with your IC what is best to share with your H right now and what to hold til later. This will only serve to help you in the end.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> Patricia:
> 
> I am incredibly proud of you. Incredibly so. What you did took a TON of courage.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your support. 

I wouldn't say that you're totally off base with the suggestion that I may lack self-worth. Given what I grew up with, and who I dated previously, I can agree that there is probably some lack of self-worth that I need to address too. I don't know if this is the main contributing factor in this situation, but I will keep any eye on it.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Xenote said:


> Patricia you took a HUGE step, you opened up and i get he is scared and nervous and at times unhinged, and sometimes when people fall into those feelings they are like a drowning person holding on to just about anything (kids, father, etc...) so while you assessing your next step understand that he is feeling lost at the moment, but given time and on going communications between the both of you, you can help yourselves and each other....don't forget your a team. I am glad your going through IC but i also think you need to have counseling together as well. So that he can learn what he needs to do support you and what you need to do to support him. hope that makes sense.


Thank-you for your insight. 

We did discuss couples counselling too. I specifically chose my therapist because she deals with sexual issues and couples therapy.

Right now I am going to start seeing her on my own and see where it goes from there. He is open to seeing her together too.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

He came home early today and we talked some more. 

It is incredible that I feel markedly better even 24 hours after I seriously brought all this uo to him. I still have a mountain to sort through but I already feel hopeful. Even he seems a lot more composed, but made it clear that he is going to feel scared for a while.

He wants me to speak up more and to do more of the things I want to do. He admitted that he could have been nicer to me over the years and that he feels bad that everything has been "all about him" for so long.

I am kind of excited about counselling, as odd as that might sound. Again, there is so much hope that things are turning around.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Patricia:

Look at the difference in your attitude simply because you expressed to him how you feel. Think of it as releasing a steam valve.

For what it's worth, he seems to be handling things like a champ.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

He is handling things very, very well.

I had my first session with the counsellor. I will admit that the session took a bit of the new found wind out of my sails.

While I know this was just the first meeting, and there is still a lot to figure out, it was hard to hear her suggestions that "high school sweethearts" often grow apart or remain in jevenile relationships.

I'm seeing my family physician soon to discuss medication and seeing the counsellor again in a week. 

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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

A few things I think some of this can be hormonal. Have you talked to you doctor about Postpartum? Second I think you are a wonderful partner. You are going through all of this and fighting like hell to make it work. That takes courage and a hell of a lot more then all the WS on here have done. I also admire that you didn't take the easy way out cheating, and have tried to be honest even though this is not in your nature. He married well, your character does you great service. 

To me this is a great example of how woman's attraction has a lot to do with her emotional connection with her spouse. It is clear that you have a deep resentment about how your sexual life with him has gone. It's so obvious, which I think means there may be some hope. I don't think you think he is unattractive, not your type, ugly. I think you feel like he has used you. He doesn't cherish you, isn't trying to be attractive for you. Your connection to him is not his priority, he doesn't court you. You know you deserve this, you gave him kids, you work on the marriage for him. Damn I get how that would hurt especially when you are so loyal. 

OK so in his defense, it is the very rare guy who knows this stuff intuitively. I think he is a good guy, but he is clueless. I am going to ask the TAM community if there are any books that you guys know of the explain this side of female sexuality/emotional/romantic needs? If you have any suggestion offer them to OP. 

Next I think you need to write him a letter, for at least yourself. I think you need to write down all the things that you resent, all the things you wanted you sex life to be about in your marriage. Your romantic life. Get it all out. After that I think you need to present it to your counselor and then I think with your counselor help (so you don't kill him) you should give it to him. I would bracket it with how you feel about him as a person, a father, and how much the marriage means to you, your children, your life and you are fighting for it. But sexually he has failed you, maybe even because he didn't know any better. Tell him what you thought it was going to be like so he knows what your dreams were. It's not to late if he can get you to forgive him. Then give him the book to read. I think he needs the fear of god put in him, not because you are trying to scare him but because he needs a chance to save his marriage. He deserves that. 

Finally I think you both need to go to marriage counseling. This is a must, you both have to learn to communicate. And you need to learn to be assertive some of this is on you because you just went with the flow, marriage is work, doesn't mean it can't be great and rewarding but sometimes you have to do hard stuff like for you confrontation. 

OP allow yourself to realize that you are a good wife, you haven't cheated, you are just unsatisfied. Even if it doesn't work out you are trying damn hard, you are not a bad person. Finally allow yourself to have hope. There can still be a breakthrough. It ain't over yet.

One other thing, encourage him to get on some board that will teach him how to be romantic, if there is one. Not here but somewhere.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

PatriciaLee said:


> He is handling things very, very well.
> 
> I had my first session with the counsellor. I will admit that the session took a bit of the new found wind out of my sails.
> 
> ...


Patience. The first counseling appointment rarely covers a ton of stuff. It is mostly formalities and getting a feel for the dynamic.

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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> I told him that I wasn't happy with anything. Not with him, not with my family (my parents), etc. I told him that I feel no real connection with him, or desire, and that because I have been so resentful over so many things (both regarding him and my family) that it has made it difficult for me to be happy about anything. I feel like a negative, hateful person, and that is not who I am.


it's legitimate to have these feelings. sharing this with him is a good first step toward addressing them. 



PatriciaLee said:


> He is terrified that I am going to leave him. I have reassured him that I want to do everything that I can to work this out.


this is obviously a lot for him to process too. plus, he hasn't really had much insight to how you've been feeling, so it's a bigger shock for him than you. 

don't blame him if he reacts a bit emotionally. if you were in his position, wouldn't you do the same?

the key is intentionality. do you both want to resolve things? I think the answer is "yes", so latch onto that.



PatriciaLee said:


> Something that I didn't mention prior was that when we were dating, back in our University days (8 years ago), we split up for about a month (at my request). I, admittedly was having some mental health issues and that was a big component to that split.
> 
> He is terrified that we're heading for that again, and this time we have kids involved.
> 
> That is not what I want, but I am extremely unhappy and have no connection with him right now. I am hoping that seeing the counselor will help me sort this all out.


OK, so there is some basis for his fear. Plus, again, this was all a bit of a surprise for him to begin with.

During the time you split up, was there another guy involved? If so, you should consider categorically reassuring him that that is not the case this time.

there is likely some lingering resentment from this episode for your husband, even if no other guy was involved. 

it's no fun to feel like you're the committed one and you have a spouse that is wavering. you need to accept that and reassure him on this front.



PatriciaLee said:


> He says he will support me through all the help I/we need to get.
> 
> Through our night's-long conversation, he expressed so many times that he loves me, but I still feel like it isn't genuine. All I could hear were the comments about him taking the kids if I try to leave, and how he needs me to help him run the business. He told me he needs to tell his dad about this (he needs someone to talk to) and I am mortified. They are more my parents then my own are... I don't know how I am ever going to face them knowing that they know about this.
> 
> I am utterly terrified that I will go through therapy and still feel like this.


OK, keep in mind that you blindsided him.

He's simultaneously wanting to patch things up with you, but he's also afraid and wants to protect himself. that is reasonable and you should not blame him for that.

what he does with the info is up to him as well. it's very reasonable to tell him that you'd rather not involve his parents in your marital troubles, but obviously he's going to make his own decision regarding that. 

if you gave him the impression you're about to split, you shouldn't be surprised if he looks for support from his family.

conversely, if you can reassure him that, even though you're having problems, you really want to work things out with him, then he may feel like you're still a team and can lean on each other.


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

Anon1111 said:


> it's legitimate to have these feelings. sharing this with him is a good first step toward addressing them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for responding. I am being very understanding of what he is going through right now. I can't imagine how torn apart he feels.

And yes, last time, there was another guy briefly involved. We didn't have sex but things did get very inappropriate. I know that this is playing heavily on how he feels right now. I keep reassuring him that this is totally different and there is no one else contributing to this mess.



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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

We had our first disagreement and dealt with it well.

We plan on going to Europe next spring. This is almost the first time ever that we've spent a large sum of money on something I want to do (he often spends a lot of money on his hobbies).

Today he said that the trip is off the table until he is sure I am not leaving him.

I totally get his fear, I aknowledged why he felt that way but also expressed that him reacting this way felt to me like I was being punished for coming out and being honest about how I feel. Reactions like that have contributed to me bottling things up over the years.

I could see that he was getting upset but he went outside for a few minutes and then came inside and apologised. I assured him once more that I understood his reaction and that I was really looking forward to this trip as something we can do together (without the kids, at that).

I feel good that we both expressed our feelings and listened to eachother. I felt heard and respected.

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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

PatriciaLee said:


> I feel good that we both expressed our feelings and listened to each other. I felt heard and respected.


Good progress both ways.

You have now described a precedent where when you have your mental issues/breakdowns you seek solace in the arms of other men. So, despite your protestations to the contrary he is rightfully concerned. 

And on the trip next Spring...I get where he is coming from...why would he commit to a major family trip and expenditure for a wife who isn't even sure she loves him or who may not even be there this time next year.

He isn't trying to punish you IMO, just being practical. When and if things settle out a bit I am sure that things will be different.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

If you stay focused on your internal growth, i.e. discovering and letting go of coping strategies you grabbed onto as a youth, differentiating and developing parts of yourself that never had the sunshine to grow back then, you will find an easiness and comfortableness with life and relationships you never imagined possible.

As you emerge, you may find he has attractive qualities and has been a loving and loyal mate, and with your eyes open permanently wider and shining, you may feel what you lament not feeling at the moment, and do so without doubts. But it's also possible you'll find something else. If that happens, you'll be equipped to face it with equanimity, and you will both be better off for it. Either way, you cannot control now which outcome awaits. You can only stay focused on becoming your healthier more centered and truth-based self.

"You can never hold back Spring." There is no going back, nor should there be. The walk is sometimes scary, but you need to leave this woods.

I'm excited for you. Stay truthful, give yourself permission to feel things and see things you don't like about yourself and others, and trust that you are worth it in the end.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM1963 (Jun 16, 2016)

Patricia,

The post below is very brave - well done. 

And ummm - I admit that I have been waiting for this acknowledgement. 

Let me tell you why. 

Your H has done, continues to do a lot of stuff that isn't considerate. And yet - you avoided any further discussion of his controlling behavior. Which made me think - there was a thing - with another man at some point. 

I want you to take a deep breath and relax. This is all going to work itself out one way or another. 

So now I'm gonna tell you what I would say to my daughter - in your situation. TrueSpeech has its own magical power. Use it. For example: 

Babe,
I don't like hunting and fishing. Don't want to do that with you. What I want to do is X Y Z. If you want to join me, great. If not, that's ok provided you don't obstruct me.


Patricia - reason I said you weren't being straight is - I knew there was some thing happened with another man. That's ok. I mean it. You didn't do it on purpose. 

But it's time to say what you want - without needing to know he is going to approve - in advance.





PatriciaLee said:


> Thank you for responding. I am being very understanding of what he is going through right now. I can't imagine how torn apart he feels.
> 
> And yes, last time, there was another guy briefly involved. We didn't have sex but things did get very inappropriate. I know that this is playing heavily on how he feels right now. I keep reassuring him that this is totally different and there is no one else contributing to this mess.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Patricia,
Head scratch. You ummm had a LOT of opportunities to address the virginity issue with him. 

Like - well - before you slept with him the second time
Or when he proposed to you
Or during your engagement 
Or before you decided to try for your first child


I believe you need to deal with this. And that you need to own the fact you've been hiding major stuff from him most of your relationship. Not medium sized stuff. MAJOR STUFF. 

Unless you at least own your piece of this mess - you will remain angry and unhappy and will end up divorced. 

And don't even take one step down the path of - but you don't understand what he is like 

Not with me. I KNOW what he's like. My partner is the female version of your H. 

You got his attention the only possible way - by withdrawing sexually

I got hers by withdrawing from the marriage financially 

Now that you have his attention - TELL HIM THE TRUTH 

Including WHY you haven't told him the truth before now. Because he really never took you seriously, until now. 





PatriciaLee said:


> He's going to just laugh at me if I even suggest counselling. I brought up the virginity thing a few days ago and he kind of scoffed at my insinuation about not liking how it happened.
> 
> Like I have said, I am no longer putting up with doing **** I am not wanting to do anymore. He's going to get used to me saying no to things.
> 
> ...


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## PatriciaLee (May 21, 2016)

bumping this to refer to my new thread..


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

PatriciaLee2 said:


> bumping this to refer to my new thread..


Thank you.

It still seems there is a lot inside yourself that needs working on. Your husband needs to work as well, being involved with counseling.

It appears that you both need some development.


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