# Sex or intimacy.



## miserableinlove_35 (May 21, 2011)

So many things wrong but the biggie seems to keep being sex. The problem is she only sees me wanting sex and getting upset because we don't. I keep trying to tell her that it''s not just sex, it's the things normal people do everyday that I'm missing. Sideway looks, or casual touches, little things that say I'm on her mind. I could go without the sex...... I think if the rest of it was there. Thing is it drives me insane just looking at her. I want to be close to her, to touch her, I'm always telling her she's beautiful. It just feels so one-sided. She says that can't change until the other stuff is fixed but, the intimacy I'm lacking causes me to be depressed and not want to do anything. Am I supposed to lock myself in a sexual coma until we fix the rest of our lives? Argh!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Sometimes I wonder if I should write a book called "The Power of INDIFFERENCE!"

Same strategy I used in sales back in the day. When I take one step forward and they take one step back, I give them a tease then take one step back and then they take one step forward. Same strategy I use in relationships, with rather... interesting results, especially when teasing is my very nature.


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## miserableinlove_35 (May 21, 2011)

Oh believe me I've tried. The thing is that before she met me she had been celibate for 10 years. I can't take that many steps back. I take a step back she rolls over and goes to sleep. I know I have a much higher sex drive than she does, and she's perfectly willing to "give it up". The problem comes when I would like to have her start something for a change.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Celibate for 10 years? How is that even possible and I can see where you have an uphill battle on your hands. Anybody that can go that long obviously has a low drive. Wow.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hmmm... this is a rather challenging situation, she was celibate for 10 years in the past, and not very easy to impress with affection since it doesn't seem like you're the type of guy who goes 'all-in on the flop' either, still doesn't work...

There could be other issues present, perhaps insecurity or stress or routine, or mis-communicated "love languages", or something else. Need more details if we are to help; How does she react when you touch her, and what "other stuff" is she referring to?


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

What are the other problems in the marriage that are making her feel like she can't get close to you? 

Are you guys working with IC or a MC? I would highly recommend it. People have attachment styles that are dictated by their early childhood (their parents). Your wife may have trust issues from childhood that make it hard for her to be giving in a relationship. Most times, it is out of fear of being hurt or rejected and so people put up walls to protect themselves.

But the coping mechanisms that many people develop when they are children (and unable to get away from mom and dad or get their needs met) stay with them as adults. But as adults, those childhood coping mechanisms no longer are effective. So the adult has to be willing to look at the original purpose of the coping or defense mechanism and work to try to recalibrate it for their adult life.

Not sure if any of this is making sense, but people behave the way they do because of usually very complex drivers/influences.

With good therapy, your wife could improve her ability to be trusting and loving. And I'm sure there is work that you can do, too, to make the environment more conducive to your wife to trust you and feel safe enough to open up. A good MC can help with this.

What I learned in MC with my hubby is that when I am less critical, he feels safer to be more loving and affectionate. And when he's more loving and affectionate, it's easier for me to be less critical. KWIM?


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

miserableinlove_35 said:


> So many things wrong but the biggie seems to keep being sex. The problem is she only sees me wanting sex and getting upset because we don't. I keep trying to tell her that it''s not just sex, it's the things normal people do everyday that I'm missing. Sideway looks, or casual touches, little things that say I'm on her mind. I could go without the sex...... I think if the rest of it was there. Thing is it drives me insane just looking at her. I want to be close to her, to touch her, I'm always telling her she's beautiful. It just feels so one-sided. She says that can't change until the other stuff is fixed but, the intimacy I'm lacking causes me to be depressed and not want to do anything. Am I supposed to lock myself in a sexual coma until we fix the rest of our lives? Argh!


I wonder whether the biggie really is sex. Often the sex is a result of other things that are heading south in the relationship. There's a good thread over in the Men's Clubhouse regarding "thermostats". Search for it, read it and see if you see yourself in that.

I think you need to start working on some of that "other stuff" your wife mentions. Mostly, I think you need to start working on yourself - to become the best person physically, emotionally, and mentally you can be.


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## miserableinlove_35 (May 21, 2011)

Thanks for all the input. I'll try to answer them all and give more details. Her parents: divorced, separated, but dad still goes to moms house all the time and constantly does things around the house for her, lawn, car care, fix things etc. He was not a good dad/husband when my spouse was younger but I can see he tries now days especially with his granddaughter, but there is still no respect for him from her mom, her, or her daughter. Basically 3 gens of manhaters. Her daughters dad was a horrible drunk and druggie that cheated all the time on her(shortly after that she went celibate, with the help of bc) 
We are a blended family, my two daughters from a druggie ex, and her teen daughter. I have custody but the mom gets visits, we constantly have to worry about her making a mistake. My spouse will spend hours on the case in front of the computer, while this was a good thing when fighting for custody it has become more of an obsession. She always brings up how much she does for me in this if I try to complain about anything. If she spent hours on my personally....wow!
Right now her teen daughter is basically ran away because we got tired of grandma spoiling her and she wanted to do what she wanted when she wanted, without having to earn it. She's flunking school right now. So definately parenting issues and disagreements.
She is overwieght and uncomfortable with herself, but I still enjoy every glance at her I can get, I enjoy seeing her, touching her, smelling her. I try to tell her everyday that I love her and how she makes me feel. The problem is I never get these things in return except the I love you. The other stuff I just get a giggle or ignored. This is getting long I'll post more later.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

So far I can see stress + insecurity + past broken family + stress + more stress... =/

Heck, I don't think this issue can be solved easily


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Intimacy isn't important to her? Ok, quit telling her she's beautiful. Quit hanging on her every word and jumping through fiery hoops for her. She wants a chilly zombie for a husband? Give her one for a while, but make sure you don't appear miserable or needy. In any transaction, the one with the least need is in the seat of power. She knows your need is greater than hers so she's not in a hurry to adjust fire. Why would she wish to give up such great power? I'd let her chill and I'd find reasons to become increasingly scarce. I bet she very quickly remembers where she left her passion.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

Okay, so there are some major issues here, all of which are probably getting in the way:

1) Your wife has abandonment issues because of her father and a dysfunctional family system with both of her parents.
2) You and your wife are both dealing with a blended family, which in and of itself is stressful. Add custody issues and multiply the stress by 1000
3) Your wife is overweight and does not feel good about herself. She's probably eating to deal with all the stress, which provides a temporary relief but longer-term misery and depression.
4) Your wife's daughter ran away, which is again a huge stressor

Your family is in crisis mode and needs professional help. It's nice to get on this board for affirmation and advice, but your family needs WAY more than this board can provide. 

The most important advice I can give is for you and your wife to each get your own counseling, preferably with a licensed psychologist. The issues you both face are major and require a lot of hard work and processing. 

It is not surprising given your situation that your wife does not feel like having sex or being romantic. With all of your challenges, you both need to work as a team. Your life can improve so much with the right therapy. 

Sorry I can't give you a simple solution!


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## miserableinlove_35 (May 21, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> Intimacy isn't important to her? Ok, quit telling her she's beautiful. Quit hanging on her every word and jumping through fiery hoops for her. She wants a chilly zombie for a husband? Give her one for a while, but make sure you don't appear miserable or needy. In any transaction, the one with the least need is in the seat of power. She knows your need is greater than hers so she's not in a hurry to adjust fire. Why would she wish to give up such great power? I'd let her chill and I'd find reasons to become increasingly scarce. I bet she very quickly remembers where she left her passion.


Again this is like trying to outchill the artic, and trying to out debate the guy that defended OJ Simpson. Being chili to her is to be accused of treating her like dirt therefore definately not deserving of anything. And by the time anything does warm up I'm just happy to be out of the doghouse for a little while. I have gone for like 3 wks sleeping on the couch, not touching, not talking trying to silently protest. The resulting fight at the end broke pictures, chairs, mirrors. I'm not saying it's all her being cold. I have been a jerk about things, I've done stupid stuff, I've ignored the housekeeping. But she can yell at me about it and the next day guess what I'm working on. I know that she needs things on an emotional level but I can't get her to see I need things on a physical level that doesn't just mean I need laid.


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## miserableinlove_35 (May 21, 2011)

I know we need counseling but no work and no insurance make that near impossible. I see plenty of posts and threads on here about people that have gone ages without sex or intimacy with thier partner and are still with them because they love them, but the one thing they all still say, they are miserable. I guess I'm wondering if as a man I really do physically need some intimacy on a daily basis to have a happy relationship or am I just some ass that wants a broad to get his rocks off. The times that are hardest to let go of course are first thing in the morning and at bedtime, how do I walk away from the urge without feeling rejected and hurt? She said tonight that she can't act like a woman, or dress like one cuz I"ve said it turns me on and makes it hard to not want closeness. Bottom line is that me not being able to be ok with no intimacy and getting upset and hurt by it is destroying our relationship. I feel like a horrible sex addict without the porn, without the other lude sexual acts. Oh and she talks about everything she's given up for me to be in this relationship. Mainly 3 friends that I will admit I got into pretty good fights with in the beginning of our relationship. I've since made up with all 3 and are good friends with but.... The scales of our relationship are way off kilter with me being the selfish bastard. I feel like Ghengis Khan going against Mother Theresa in who deserves the "I'm the perfect partner award because I'm so giving and loving." ray:


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## miserableinlove_35 (May 21, 2011)

I guess I want to try and clear some stuff up. Guys and girls please tell me the difference between intimacy and sex. Or is it the same thing? Say the guys at the sink doing the dishes, (I know, manly men don't do dishes) but what would an intimate touch be, what would make him feel loved or appreciated. Do women think that men just want talking, do they think that intimacy is only on a physical level? Am I weird in thinking that the right touch could say I love you so much more than the words? I guess I feel like if I got more of this during the day or after I've done some manly thing.... killed a spider or fixed the leaking faucet, then it would be easier to not feel rejected at night and understand that maybe she's just not in the mood.


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## Nicbrownn80 (Mar 20, 2011)

sex makes intimacy, quickly and simply. Imagine goes on ana amazing date with your wife and you talk, cuddle, smile, tell jokes. When you get home you already feel intimate. You want sex for sex, it doesn't happen depending on the reasons you went on the date you can be the happiest guy in the world or the saddest.

It sounds like you have a lot going on, and how she is treading you will make you want to leave. She has to understand that, sounds like your trying and its basically just her making issues, were sometimes it is none. Also she needs to learn not to take it out on you. Also when money is low life is harder, much harder.

Btw grandparents are there to spoil kids


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Listen, do not do a single more thing to kiss your woman's behind than you already have done.

You are nothing like this "Ghengis Khan" or whatever for merely wanting to express your sexual desire to your woman.

Understand this, until you are making your woman FEEL feminine and attractive, and this by her FEELING that she herself is desired by a man much worthy of being desired by, all the talking and begging in the world will make zero difference.

These things are talked about many times on this very board, and the solution is at hand.

But the solution will not be reached by talking about sex, but by your own action and behavior, to stop doing things that kill sexual attraction, and start doing things that increase sexual attraction.

Start here:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ats-attractive-my-wifes-input.html#post181910

Then go here and take these things to heart, these things are powerful and effective:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


Also I must add this, I understand also the generation of "man haters", for in my wife's side of the family, it is the same thing, particularly when we were dating and first married! 

Myself, I became adored by the fiercest and most jaded of the "man hater" women, and this often surprised the rest of the family.

Understand, "man hater" women simply want to see the man that is worthy of her respect. 

So to deal with this, be the man who will stand for himself, be confortable with himself, and take care of those he needs to take care of from his own leadership, (and this means do not fret the approval or disapproval of a woman) and these things will fall into place as if by magic.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Miserable,

I fear you misunderstood me. I'm not talking about being passive-aggressive, sulking, or punishing her with your silence. I'm talking about halting the butt kissing, attending to your own happiness, appearing at all times to her as if you are happy, confident, and occupied. Don't sleep on the couch. Your place is in your bed, so when you decide to come home, hop in where you belong. Sleeping on the couch shows her you're pissed at her, which makes her in charge. You aren't being mean you're being more or less happily indifferent. The opposite of love is not hate. Hate is still passion and shows the other party you seriously care and they have the capacity to move you. Indifference shows them they are insignificant. Your wife has assumed significance far beyond that which is reasonable or healthy. You want to dispel that myth.


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## miserableinlove_35 (May 21, 2011)

Yes grandparents are there to spoil kids but unfortunately this grandma has taken the stance of "They aren't my grandkids" with my two younger children. She spends exorbant amounts of money on the teenager which is my spouses daughter and therefore "her granddaughter"


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## miserableinlove_35 (May 21, 2011)

I understand what you're saying about indifference vs hate or anger. However I was in our bed during that time. Sleeping on the same shoulder for 8 hrs for weeks really kills. The hard part here is keeping any emotion in check is very hard be it hate or affection. I've been reading the man up and other man posts to try and find some hint of how to proceed so we will see how the following days go. But I do take to heart all the advice thank you


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## miserableinlove_35 (May 21, 2011)

This has post has more to do with me as a man then anything to do with her. Throughout our relationship I have had a lot more contact with kids and teens, I love kids, like to hang with teens. The problem is when they become unruly, I turn into Mr Stern and try to get them to toe the line. More times than not this is due to I believe a lack of discipline from the parents. However I just come off as a prick that no one likes or respects. I can now look back and see my dad and how none of my friends or cousins really look back very fondly of him. I don't want to be poorly remembered but not sure where to be stern with kids and where to draw the line. Again basically wondering where the dominant confidant man is vs the neanderthal.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

Sex alone does not create intimacy, but it sure helps keep a couple bonded.

Your desire for sex and intimacy from your wife is totally understandable and normal. 

Have you ever tried to sit down with your wife and just tell her from the heart that not having the type of loving connection you want is making you unhappy? I would let her know that it is killing your relationship and that you can't promise to stay in the marriage if things don't change.

I also agree with the other poster about doing what you can to make your own life fulfilling OUTSIDE of the marriage (not cheating, though). 

Your life seems pretty chaotic with many traumatic things happening at once, so maybe your wife needs more emotional support from you before she can give you what you want sexually. You said she's doing a lot to help you with your child custody case. She's also dealing with her daughter running away. She could be so burned out from those things that she has nothing left for you. What are you doing to help her with these things? If you are more passive, step up beyond your comfort zone. She may feel like she has to hold everything together because you are more passive. Just a thought, not sure if it applies.

Relationships are a dynamic created by TWO individuals. You don't need to kiss her ass, but you do need to be the husband she needs and you may not know what that is for her. And likewise, she needs to be the wife you need her to be, and it sounds like she's working hard, but just not with the things you are appreciating.

As an FYI, if you have enough money for coffee out, or dinner out, you have enough for some marriage therapy. If you are flat out broke, you could contact some churches to see if they have support groups. 

What you can't do is the same thing you have been doing because it isn't working.

I hope things get better for you.


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