# Can I believe?



## hurtnconfused120 (Aug 14, 2013)

I have nowhere to go, and no one to talk to, so I'm hoping this site can help me. My wife doesn't like me talking to anyone about our personal life because she says it's none of their business. Honestly the reason I don't is because for some reason I feel the need to spare her the embarrassment. This is why...

My wife and I have been together for 8 years, married for 7. Growing up, she never felt good about herself, and says she never really got much attention from other guys. To me, she has always been the most amazing and beautiful person, up until the "events". Everything was amazing while we were dating. Then, about a month after we got married I noticed she would be on her computer while I went to bed. After some suspicion, and seeing the cell phone bill, I found out she was talking with a coworker, flirting, etc. After confronting her, she said it was over, and would not happen again.

Years have gone by since then, and we now have 3 children. Last year I noticed her acting differently, constantly on her phone, and hiding it from me. After asking, she insisted nothing was wrong or going on. One day I came home to find a makeup bag on the bed filled with condoms. I immediately confronted her, and she said it was a joke given by a gf, teasing about getting pregnant again. I had been trying to talk to her during this time because she was always down. Two nights after finding the condoms, I tried to talk to her, and she started crying, so I went to the shelf in her closet where she kept a box of tissues, and got her a few. After seeing she was still upset and not wanting to talk, I got her the rest of the box of tissues, and when I picked them up this time, I could tell there was something else under the tissues. It was the empty box of condoms. I took them to her and said "OK, now you're going to talk". She immediately blamed me, said it's because I do nothing but accuse, which I never do. She said she texted, sent pics, and went to see a coworker, but all they did was make out, and then she said she told him "believe it or not, I do love my husband", and left. I had no idea what I was supposed to do or believe. After talking, again she said it would never happen again, and I forgave her.

I'm leaving out many details, as I'm just trying to get this all typed out.

At this same time, I knew she had another guy friend at work that she talked to. He had "issues" in his life, and was married himself, and I had no reason to think anything was going on. Oh how wrong I was. After the deal with the makeout guy, I noticed emails to this other coworker. Yes, I am a techy, and I have access to everything she has and does. I only check when I feel the need to, or if things just seem wrong. She said she only ever talked to this guy about his problems, as a friend, but I never once saw anything to that affect. The emails were flirty, but nothing difinitive. When I mentioned this to her, she said they were just friends, yes they flirted and she knew it was wrong, and promised not to do that anymore, as she was trying to gain my trust back. A month later, I saw more emails, talking the same way. Again, I confronted her, and she again said she messed up by flirting, that they were just friends, and she would not email him anymore. Months went by, our new baby was born, and I got another intuition. I checked her facebook account, and low and behold, she was messaging him, more flirty stuff. I confronted, she said they were just friends who liked to talk, but she would stop. Twice more I caught the messaging, same response. One day her cell phone broke so she had to get a new one. While without a phone, she logged onto her secrect email account, forgot to log out, which is how I saw. There were no messages, but the account username was willneverlearn26. I freaked out, confronted, and again she admitted to screwing up, that she just liked the attention but didn't want to hurt me. She promised to delete the account and stop talking to him altogether. 

A couple months went by, and she started being secretive with her phone again. After finally having a free moment to see her phone when she left it unattended, there were no messages, but the #1 most contacted person was this guy. We work separate shifts so that night I told her when she got home she was going to tell me the whole truth. If she didn't, I was leaving. If she did, depending on what she said, I still might leave. When she got home, she told me the truth, that she had slept with him a couple times the summer before, after she was already pregnant, and they realized it was stupid and just became "friends". 

I left for the night, and came back. I don't know why. I am so lost and don't know what to do. This was the beginning of July. Since then, it seems everything is finally done with this guy, but I don't know how to believe and trust her. I know if it wasn't for the kids, I would already be gone. She has been super nice to me since finding out, and it seems like she is honestly trying. My issue is that being nice is not the only thing I need to see that I am the man she loves and wants. If I bring it up, she gets defensive and says she will never meet my expectations.

I know that was a long rant, and I don't know how to talk. I know it sounds like I am just weak, but as I said, I left out a lot of details. My main issue is I'm too forgiving, and I want to try and fix everything. I don't even know what I'm asking for by posting this, other than to just tell someone, instead of bottling it up.

I'm sure everyone is going to say she will never change, and I should just leave. I guess what I'm looking for is whether there is any chance, and what I can do to get her to open up to me and show me, if she really does want me. GRRR...I'm just so frustrated, and ready to throw in the towel.


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## crazyconfused (Nov 23, 2011)

Well I can tell you this, your wife is a serial cheater... Period!!! She shows no remorse, and you are absolutely right, everyone including me is going to tell you to run away as fast as you can. That's not what you want to hear I know, but damn man how much are you going to take from this woman before you find your balls and stand up for yourself. The only way you are going to save this relationship is to take control of it. You need to

1. Take financial control. Clean out the bank accounts into one that only you control. 
2. She needs to leave the house for awhile. 
3. Contact a lawyer and get divorce papers started. 
4. Out her to yours/her family. Out all the OMs to wives/family coworkers, anybody that will listen. 
5. DNA test your children. This seems harsh, but you wouldn't be the first husband raising someone else's child. 
6. Cancel all her credit cards, her cell phone, anything she uses to cheat. If she has her own tablet/computer, I would make sure to smash that thing, maybe right in front of her, let her know you won't tolerate this crap from her. 

You do this, and it may, just may shock her into reevaluating her decisions about cheating. I don't think so, I think she is a broken person and the only way to for you to be happy is a life without her in your life


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## Clawed (May 21, 2013)

I'm so sorry you are here for that reason. My heart breaks for you. The reason is that I know how it feels. Infidelity is the most difficult thing I have ever faced in my life. My story sounds similar to yours. When I found out everything, once and for all (it took many conversations to get there), she was so apologetic and seemed to take ownership of what happened. We even went to counseling. After some time though, even though the marriage seemed to be stronger than it had ever been and she reassured me up until the final day... she suddenly left me. She left and I had no idea what was happening inside her head. 

I don't share that because I think that is what will happen with you two, but it is a possibility. The truth is, she was hding the truth for a long time. There was a reason she couldn't be honest and that might be one huge reason to seek marriage counseling. I think it would have helped my wife and I if she gave it a chance, but I think she already had her mind made up. The most important thing I can say is that you find a way to effectively communicate with each other.

Maybe this is just me spitballing some possibilities, but I feel like it's possible that the reason she may have started to mess around is that she maybe did not have the best self esteem coming into the marriage. When you came into her life, she probably felt great about herself for the first time in a long time and she let her guard down for you. A few years of marriage and maybe she let some of those feelings creep back in and as soon as someone else start paying attention to her outside of the marriage, she started to feel really wanted again. I'm not saying you did anything to make her feel this way. Just the way you talk about things, I'm pretty sure you love her quite a bit. In my own marriage, I feel like the same thing might have occurred. My wife was the same, not popular in school, no dating until I came into her life. Over time, she started to change and much to my surprise, became even more beautiful than I thought was possible. Unfortunately, other men started paying attention to her, and she fell into the trap. She turned everything around on me in the end and made it entirely my fault. The reality is I loved her more than anything in this life and I would have done whatever it took to make things work... she simply did not feel the same in the end, even though she said she did, even after the affair.

So, counseling is a very good idea. And if you do that, make sure you guys are on the same page about being willing to open up and share everything just so it gets out in the open. You want to lay it all out there so that healing can take place. It may be uncomfortable at first, but the last thing you want is for those negative feelings to fester.

I am glad you are here and that you are willing to share your story. You can private message me at any time and I would be willing to lend an ear in you need to vent or if you want to bounce some ideas off of me. I'm almost at the end of my journey in this marriage and I have learned so much about myself in the process.

Good luck to you!


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## hurtnconfused120 (Aug 14, 2013)

I hear what you're saying and I agree, but that doesn't make it easy to do. I have put my foot down, gave ultimatums so to speak of things that need to change. In my mind I believe everything you're saying about serial cheating, etc., I just don't know why I have such a hard time leaving. I have also considered the DNA test, even though she says it was after she was pregnant. She honestly has been trying, but to me words aren't enough. It's hard to do more things like you have said when this all came out a month ago, and we are now in the "healing" process. Damn I wish my words could come out better. I am trying my hardest to grow more of a backbone, and don't know why I cower down to her so much. I am attractive (so I've been told), fit, and a great father and husband. I have even told her everytime someone has come on to me. She basically doesn't ever act jealous at all, because she knows I would never do anything like that. Sometimes I wish I could just so she knows how it feels, and to maybe see some true feelings from her.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

I agree with everything crazyconfused said to you.
You have no reason to believe her, and she does not believe you will do as you say because you have accepted her excuses and promises to stop so many time I lost count myself. 

YOU don't need to leave SHE does. You need to stay in the home and take care of the children. She has not proven herself to be a fit mother because a fit mother would not do what she has done.

If she won't leave you need to go dark on her and do what crazy has said. It is the ONLY way she will stop.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> I hear what you're saying and I agree, but that doesn't make it easy to do. I have put my foot down, gave ultimatums so to speak of things that need to change. In my mind I believe everything you're saying about serial cheating, etc., I just don't know why I have such a hard time leaving. I have also considered the DNA test, even though she says it was after she was pregnant. She honestly has been trying, but to me words aren't enough. It's hard to do more things like you have said when this all came out a month ago, and we are now in the "healing" process. Damn I wish my words could come out better. I am trying my hardest to grow more of a backbone, and don't know why I cower down to her so much. I am attractive (so I've been told), fit, and a great father and husband. I have even told her everytime someone has come on to me. She basically doesn't ever act jealous at all, because she knows I would never do anything like that. Sometimes I wish I could just so she knows how it feels, and to maybe see some true feelings from her.


Do this for yourself. Set up a polygraph appointment and tell her she has to go to answer your questions. If she has been truthful you will find out as the impending doom of going through with the test will freak her out. Most confessions happen in the parking lot before the exam. You cannot fake it. Set up the appointment and let her know it is not optional. If she refuses and plays like you have the truth then serve her Divorce papers.

She is a classic serial cheater and she is trickle trothing you. She has had multiple sexual partners more than likely and this has been going on for years. You sound like a bit of a doormat as you have not made her do any of the heavy lifting and continue to take her back after it happening again and again.
Time to grow a pair my friend.


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## Garm (Mar 11, 2013)

DNA test your kid. I did even though my wife's affair partner has the completely opposite skin color. It gives her another consequence to face.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

"Unfortunately, other men started paying attention to her, and she fell into the trap. She turned everything around on me in the end and made it entirely my fault." 

1. There was no "TRAP" She Chose to do it.

2. "Fault" Classic cheater Rug Sweep. She owns the AFFAIRS 100%. You did not hold a gun to her head and tell her to make herself available to OM.

3. Unless you follow advise here 1.do the 180. 2. Prepare for Divorce, 3. Required her to be completely Open. 4. Have her write a Time Line so you have the info. 5. Expose.

If you don't stand up for yourself and require her to do the Heavy Lifting you will have a Cake Eater as a wife and it will continue.


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## Clawed (May 21, 2013)

Well, it appears I would be the only one to hold out hope. I just know that change is possible, even though my wife and I failed. I just think with so much vested in the relationship, you need to do what you feel is right. What she has done is terribly wrong and she would need to take complete responsibility and an active role in the recovery. If she doesn't, you know she does not want to save the marriage enough.

Doing some of the things suggested above might scare the crap out of her enough for you to see the degree of which she wants to make this right.


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## hurtnconfused120 (Aug 14, 2013)

I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm a doormat. I haven't just given in each time, there were long, deep conversations, and I am just to forgiving. Could I be more harsh? Absolutely. Should I have just given up by this point? For sure. The balls are there now, I assure you, but I don't want to add fuel to the fire by doing harsh things as we are trying to work this out one last time. I assure you if I find out one more thing, it is most definitely over. Period. My self esteem and confidence are growing more and more each day. 

I just wish I knew the whole entire truth, whether she really loves me and only wants me now, and why she can't show me physically, other than just words, opening up and doing things like she did with him. And no, I don't mean sex all the time, although that would be nice.


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## BlueCalcite (Jul 15, 2013)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> I have also considered the DNA test, even though she says it was after she was pregnant.


Even if you have no doubts about the paternity, the DNA test is about making as strong a statement as possible about the level to which she has eroded your trust.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Your wife lies to you. She is still lying to you. She does not respect you. You have to respect yourself. She must have consequences for her actions. Have you been tested for stds? How do you know she has stopped contact and does not have another email account? I would hand her the divorce papers and maybe she might wake up. You do not know what is on her mind. She may be already out of the marriage. It sounds like it. She may be sorry she got caught, but she keeps having affairs.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> 1-After confronting her, she said it was over, and would not happen again.
> 
> 2-After talking, again she said it would never happen again, and I forgave her.
> 
> ...


Perhaps, if you had given her significant consequences the first time you caught her cheating, there would have been a small chance that you could have gotten control of the situation. But as your rugsweep count mounted, you simply enabled her. She absolutely has no fear that you will leave her.

Now, it's too late. She's a serial cheater and she's not going to change. If you think she only had sex with one guy over the years you need your head examined.

No other advice to be rendered, save one thing. Divorce her and don't look back.

You need to read MMSLP, by Athol Kay prior to your next relationship. You're so Beta dominant that your story is painful to read.

Never the less, I hope you'll find another person who will be faithful to you. Best of luck.


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## hurtnconfused120 (Aug 14, 2013)

Yes, STD tested and clear. I do not know if contact has stopped or whether there is another account, I'm going off her word, which yes I know has been total crap. If I'm going to try this one last time, I have to believe to a point. Like I said, this came out a month ago, and we are trying to work things out. Throwing a DNA test, divorce papers, lie detector tests, telling everyone, anything like that will most likely end us for sure.


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## hurtnconfused120 (Aug 14, 2013)

BadMemory, you are right, I agree I enabled it, and I have beaten myself up over it many times. Hoping it's not too late, but you are probably right there as well. I almost want to show her all these posts, or have someone tell her to wake the f up, as my words have obviously never worked...


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## crazyconfused (Nov 23, 2011)

Everyone is giving you great advice man, and you just need to start following it. I understand that it's hard to stand up her, especially with your heart ripped out of yor chest. Doesn't really make you feel like being a manly man does it? More like crawling in a hole a hiding. 

But you can't do that. Part of being a man is doing the hard thing, especially when it's something you don't want to do. But yes, you need reach down, remember you have a set and get to work. You need to get mad, and not worry about hurting her feelings or her getting mad at you. You need to get your "F-you" back so to speak. You wouldn't take this crap from anyone else, and wouldn't take this from her when you were dating. You need to get that guy back. 

1. Go to the gym. You say you are fit. Get in better shape. You say you are good looking. Other women in the gym will notice then, and you will notice them checking you out. It's a nice ego boost and a reminder that your wife isn't the only person in the world that will want you. Put on about ten pounds of muscle, it's amazing what an ego boost that is. Part of getting The old YOU back is regaining your confidence. 
2. Pull the 180. It works man. If you do it right it works wonders. 
3. Be a good dad to your kids. 
3. Look up Bandit45's thread. His thread is a great example of how to handle a cheating woman
4. Be strong when around her. Show only strength. When you have weakness, come here. We will help you. You can cry, whine, vent and be a blubbering baby here, no one will judge you. This is your safe place. Everywhere else you need to have your game face on. 
5. And for gods sake, listen to the advice you get here. You have so much wisdom and experience here. Use it.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> Yes, STD tested and clear. I do not know if contact has stopped or whether there is another account, I'm going off her word, which yes I know has been total crap. If I'm going to try this one last time, I have to believe to a point. Like I said, this came out a month ago, and we are trying to work things out. Throwing a DNA test, divorce papers, lie detector tests, telling everyone, anything like that will most likely end us for sure.


I would definitely do the DNA test to show her what you think of her "word" - shes a liar. She does not sound like she is willing to do the heavy lifting...that is not a good sign for the long term prospects for the marriage anyway. Unless you want to make th emistake of rugsweeping it.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> I have put my foot down, gave ultimatums so to speak of things that need to change.


And you've never followed through with your demands, that's why you're still here and that's why she'll never stop. Sorry but if you're not willing to lose your wife to try and make her stop her cheating ways, you're just going to have to suck it up and hope she'll change one day.

Sorry to be harsh but nothing anyone tells you or advises you on this situation will work until you're willing to risk losing her to help save yourself. In saving yourself you just might save your marriage.

If your wife is going down in quicksand and you throw her a rope to pull her out and she doesn't take it. But she wants you to jump into the quicksand and try to save her that way instead.....

My wife finally realized the only way to save us was to save herself. If I wasn't willing to be with her, she was fine moving on without me in the end. All the pleading and begging didn't work at all.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> BadMemory, you are right, I agree I enabled it, and I have beaten myself up over it many times. Hoping it's not too late, but you are probably right there as well. I almost want to show her all these posts, or have someone tell her to wake the f up, as my words have obviously never worked...


You see Hurt, there's a Catch 22 here. She doesn't believe you will leave her, thus she has no motivation to stop cheating. The catch now is, the only way she will believe it after all the rug sweeping, is if you do - permanently.

I am not pro divorce. I'm in R with a WS myself. So I don't dispense the advice to D arbitrarily. But this is where you are.

Nothing but a monumental consequence will have any chance to work now. The only one that I could envision, would be to divorce her and then consider dating her again afterwards.

But she's not going to jump through those hoops for you. She doesn't value her marriage enough to do that.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Paternity test the kids. It is cheap and private. You can do it from your home and your wife does not need to participate but I would insist if I were you that she does. 

Set up a polygraph. Be prepared for a parking lot confession. Follow thru

Get tested for stds. Both of you. 

Do not rug sweep. Do not be afraid of your wife. Fear is your enemy now. 

Be strong

Good luck

Wd
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustGrinding (Oct 26, 2012)

The above posters are giving good, detailed instructions for you to follow. It will be very, very difficult to follow this advice at this point due to the severe emotional injury you've incurred. Though it's the worst-possible reaction, most betrayed instinctively turn to their closest emotional confidante for help after the betrayal: the betraying spouse.

I'm just going to tell you this from experience: you'll be better off leaving this woman as soon as possible. Reconciliation is a much harder path to follow than dissolution. It is very difficult coming home every day to the person who is both your greatest love and the source of the greatest emotional pain you'll ever experience. It's like walking into a fire every day.

I believe separation fosters a much quicker and more complete personal recovery. I'm still at a loss to understand how someone who daily faces their chief abuser can attain complete personal recovery.

I doubt you'll be able to stop the "Stockholm Syndrome" effect from taking over, but please recognize it for what it is and develop an exit plan.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Also put little faith in her words now. Expect lies it is par for the course. Pay attention to her actions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BlueCalcite (Jul 15, 2013)

badmemory said:


> Nothing but a monumental consequence will have any chance to work now. The only one that I could envision, would be to divorce her and then consider dating her again afterwards.


Divorce is a long process with no real meaning until the end. Starting the process could be just the motivation she needs, if she wants motivation, and you'll have plenty of time to evaluate her commitment to change before anything becomes permanent. Divorces are halted all the time.


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## hurtnconfused120 (Aug 14, 2013)

Thanks everyone. This is all difficult for me to hear, but I know your wisdom on this matter exceeds mine.

So your saying, in the middle of the day, when she's in a good mood and doesn't think anything is wrong, I should just bring stuff up and cause further problems?


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## hurtnconfused120 (Aug 14, 2013)

Also, I have been going to the gym. After the baby I started going with her for moral support, and fell in love with it. I have really muscled up, and she has noticed, along with plenty other girls there. It has boosted my ego tremendously, but has not changed her physical attention towards me other than once in awhile she says I'm looking good.


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## Clawed (May 21, 2013)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> Thanks everyone. This is all difficult for me to hear, but I know your wisdom on this matter exceeds mine.
> 
> So your saying, in the middle of the day, when she's in a good mood and doesn't think anything is wrong, I should just bring stuff up and cause further problems?


Further problems? I think the damage is already done. I mean, she brought this on herself. You don't want her to get complacent anyway, otherwise it's back to more of the same. She needs to take an active part in recovery. If she is satisfied to just go back to what you guys have been doing - well, you need to get the ball rolling with divorce.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> So your saying, in the middle of the day, when she's in a good mood and doesn't think anything is wrong, I should just bring stuff up and cause further problems?


Hurt,

Your statement above is a precise example of what I'm talking about; of how you enable her. 

Even now, with all that she's done to you, and all the advice you've been given; you're worried about causing further problems while she's in a good mood.

Wake the f*ck up.


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## hurtnconfused120 (Aug 14, 2013)

True, I don't want it to just go back to normal. I want resolution. I want a loving wife who shows me as much as I show her.


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## Clawed (May 21, 2013)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> True, I don't want it to just go back to normal. I want resolution. I want a loving wife who shows me as much as I show her.


Right, and that does not come easily. Let me ask you, what has she done to reassure you that she wants to make things work? Has it been all words and no action?


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## hurtnconfused120 (Aug 14, 2013)

Yes, all words, texts, a few sweet emails.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Your own fear will destroy your marriage and your manhood. If the roles were reversed and you were screwing other women behind her back putting her heath at risk for STD's; would she be so timid, fearful, accepting and forgiving as you?

Why in the world would she respect such a man who would accept such humiliation and disrespect? If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## Clawed (May 21, 2013)

Infidelity is very serious, and I am sure you know just how serious it is by the hurt you carry from it. Considering what has transpired, I would figure that your wife would do something much more proactive than talk about it. Communication is a huge part of it, but at this stage, it's her actions that are going to speak louder than her words. If she has not even said that she would be willing to seek therapy, I can't imagine that she truly wants to change. Talk is cheap. Heck, even my STBXW agreed to counseling. I'm worried that she is going to be the one to leave and it's going to make you feel like total crap that she had all the control. If I could go back, I would have left my wife first and maintained the power. It's not fun to be cheated on and for that person to then turn around and serve you divorce papers too. Trust me!


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Op to your basic question of can you believe her. 

My thought is not just no, but he!! No
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> Yes, STD tested and clear. I do not know if contact has stopped or whether there is another account, I'm going off her word, which yes I know has been total crap. If I'm going to try this one last time, I have to believe to a point. Like I said, this came out a month ago, and we are trying to work things out. Throwing a DNA test, divorce papers, lie detector tests, telling everyone, anything like that will most likely end us for sure.


You won't listen to advice of all who have been there done that. You are just continuing to do what you have proven to yourself multiple times won't work. You are a shell of a man and I am sorry to inform you but your marriage has no chance until you change. She will not change unless you do and with all the enabling you have done she most likely won't change with you as her partner ever. Only person who you can change in your relationship is you. If you hired a PI tomorrow he would have confirmation inside of a week of her still doing this.
This game is her drug, you are not willing to do what is necessary to wake her up to the consequences and therefore you nave no chance, not even a little one. 
Think about it. I told you to set up a polygraph. 
Here is what you say. We have had this happen so many times my mind simply is not at ease at all, and I am not able to blindly believe what I am told right now. I have tried that many times only to have this happen over and over. This time I need to do it differently and be sure I know what I am forgiving for my own peace. So I can move on and stop wondering if there is more, if it is still happening. I have set up a polygraph and I deserve for you to show up and be asked some questions I need to know I am getting the true answers to.
You worrying about her reaction to that is a joke. You worrying you will rock the boat is a bigger joke. You are trying to save a relationship that is fictional. She will not take the polygraph, she might say she will, but if you actually follow through she will break down before going in the building and you will be given a little more than you know right now and she will play that off as what she held back. When that happens let her know you thought this might happen so you had back up questions just in case it did and now that she has told you this information you want her to take the test still. She will freak out. You will have your answer. No test at that point is needed, just divorce papers.

Sorry, hopefully you will hear something you are being told and make a real change. If not we will be here to help when you are in divorce.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> Thanks everyone. This is all difficult for me to hear, but I know your wisdom on this matter exceeds mine.
> 
> So your saying, in the middle of the day, when she's in a good mood and doesn't think anything is wrong, I should just bring stuff up and cause further problems?


Yes on bringing stuff up. You are healing and she should want that. You are so afraid of her it is pathetic to see. She does not deserve peace until she has helped to give it back to you.
Period.


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

Half A$$ed Actions, Breed Half A$$ed Results. You know the old saying 
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me, Fool me three times; I'm just and idiot because I don't listen learn from my mistakes.


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## hurtnconfused120 (Aug 14, 2013)

I am trying to listen to everyone's advice and let it sink it, and consider the actions I will take. Please understand, I posted originally only a few hours ago. Saying I won't listen is not fair to say yet. I am trying, which is why I am here. Trying is all I ever do.


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## hurtnconfused120 (Aug 14, 2013)

The other thing, as far as actually talking to her and bringing out my unhappiness, as I said in an early post we work different shifts. It would either have to be electronic, over the phone, wait up until midnight, or wait for the weekend.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

Clawed said: <<Well, it appears I would be the only one to hold out hope.>>

No, there is still hope, if she is serious, but unless something has really changed, no one here is being serious.
She HAS to know this is it, the last chance, and unless you ask her to do the timeline, be transparent with everything and yes, do a polygraph you will never know if she is taking you seriously. 

Talking to a divorce lawyer and perhaps getting that started will give you info you need and her a message that you ARE serious. That is when she will wake up.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

From the looks of things everything the posters are saying is true and the sad probability is your marriage is over. There may be a glimmer of hope, but that's stretching REAL far.

I don't say any of this lightly hurtandconfused at all, as one who's partners have cheated in my past to. I remember the hurt and devastation all too well, like it was yesterday. I still ponder the moments of agony, the realization of who they were, my own inadequate actions at the time.

Time will help you to understand the inevitability of what's going on.
Try to take it easy on yourself, even while letting this all sink in.

Dear Lord, it's awful.

Best wishes to you my friend and I'm sure you will make the right decisions, either now or soon. Hopefully sooner.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> Yes, STD tested and clear. I do not know if contact has stopped or whether there is another account, I'm going off her word, which yes I know has been total crap. If I'm going to try this one last time, I have to believe to a point. Like I said, this came out a month ago, and we are trying to work things out. Throwing a DNA test, divorce papers, lie detector tests, telling everyone, anything like that will most likely end us for sure.


You can have a DNA test done on your child without telling here. There are DNA kits that can be ordered online. There might even be some available at your local drug store.

These other things.. divorce papers, lie detector test, etc, use them if you catch her again. Have a plan for the next discovery. There is a huge chance that there will be a next time.

There are things you can do now to find out if she is still carrying on and lying.

Put a keystroke logger on any computer she uses at home. Don't tell her it's there. You will capture everything she's doing on there.

Most people who cheat use their car as a private phone booth to talk to their affair partner(s). So put a VAR (voice activated recorder) under the front seat of her car. Use Velcro strips (self adhesive) to hold it in place. Some people have 2 VARS. one in the car and one to swap it out with so they can listen to anything recorded when they can find a private time to do it. Again do not tell her if you do this.

If over time you find nothing, then you can start to feel safe again. If you do find something then you will have a plan in place.

Find out what your rights are in your state for divorce just in case. For example you can get an emergency order so that she cannot move out with your child. If she moves out she has to leave your child with you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> The other thing, as far as actually talking to her and bringing out my unhappiness, as I said in an early post we work different shifts. It would either have to be electronic, over the phone, wait up until midnight, or wait for the weekend.


So wait for the weekend. That gives you time to plan what you want to say and what your actions will be.


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> I am trying to listen to everyone's advice and let it sink it, and consider the actions I will take. Please understand, I posted originally only a few hours ago. Saying I won't listen is not fair to say yet. I am trying, which is why I am here. Trying is all I ever do.


hurt,

you seem to understand that you've been a doormat and not hard enough on her. I suppose you just need to summon the courage and will power to do the things you know need to be done.

At the moment, you are trapped in a viscous, downward spiral. You are essentially supporting her "dating life", while you get the left overs. You know this.

It is up to you to break this cycle. Refuse to be played by this cheater. Do just change your words ... change your actions .. and it will change your life.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> The other thing, as far as actually talking to her and bringing out my unhappiness, as I said in an early post we work different shifts. It would either have to be electronic, over the phone, wait up until midnight, or wait for the weekend.


OK Hurt. You don't want to have "the" talk electronically. Wait for a time when you can talk with her for hours undisturbed. No one is suggesting it has to be today. Do it the next day you have the opportunity, but don't give her a heads up on when it will be. 

Use the time to prepare what you're going to say to her; and as important, anticipate her responses and be ready for them. This includes her possible blame shifting, gas lighting, and minimizing.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> So your saying, in the middle of the day, when she's in a good mood and doesn't think anything is wrong, I should just bring stuff up and cause further problems?


 It is thinking like this that has allowed her to control you and enabled her to cheat. You are so focused on her moods and feelings, that accept for such things as paying the bills and babysitting, you have become irreverent to her.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

OP,

You are making one of the most fundamental errors a BS can commit.

You are hoping logical thinking can reach her and you will be able to nice/love her back into the marriage.

This will end in total failure for you. IT DOES NOT WORK!


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Man, there's no way you can fix this or her. And no, you can't believe. I am very sorry this has happened to you, but you need to realize she doesn't respect you, she doesn't love you, and she is selfish and an uncaring narcissist. She is a deceiver through and through. I know it's super hard because there are children involved - but she's out of control. Save yourself.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> Yes, STD tested and clear. I do not know if contact has stopped or whether there is another account, I'm going off her word, which yes I know has been total crap. If I'm going to try this one last time, I have to believe to a point. Like I said, this came out a month ago, and we are trying to work things out. Throwing a DNA test, divorce papers, lie detector tests, telling everyone, anything like that will most likely end us for sure.


And thats the point.....your old lady has yet to answer to any consequences and will continue.

She keeps playing you and...again with out facing consequences she will do it again.

So push this...all of this and see if she is willing to face the consequences...but like you said her facing any consequences will be the end of the marriage.

Its sucks bro but consequences stop bad behavior and your old lady has some very bad behavior...to bad you affraid to face them!

It also suck to deal with your own consequences when you stop sharing your wife. But at the end of the day is it really a consequence when you stop getting crapped on by your old lady?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

hnc120, you can't nice your way out of this.

You keep doing the samething over and over again...year after year..and yet she still betrays you time and again!

Why don't you change it up this time and star cuasing some problems, make your old ladies life inconvienent, stand up and stop sharing your wife and demand transparentcy, and demand she affair proofs the marriage. or else!!!!

And thats the thing here brother your affraid of the "or else" and your chick knows it thats why she keeps screwing you over.

Maybe if she finaly faces some realy consequences she will respect the man that is dishing them out...or she just might bail once you stand up for your self...either way its a win win for you cuz in the end you will get your self respect back.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

If your old lady really loves you she will take her licks you give her and do the heavy lifting to rebuild this marriage after *her* betrayal.


But then again its you not her!!!

Sorry for the sarcasim bro..I just don't like how this marriage is one sided and you keep getting manipulated in to your chicks way of thinking when it is her that is screwing around.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Friend. I don't know why your here. If you need to be anywhere is at an attorney's office Bad Memory pointed it out to you. 8 times she cheated. Do you now know why she doesn't want you to talk to anybody about your personal problems? She's a walking, talking, living, breathing example of not only a cheater but a lousy wife. She could make a fortune giving advice on "How to cheat and keep a husband under your thumb". 

You find a empty box of condoms in a tissue box. A purse full of condoms. She's screwing a guy while pregnant and you still don't know what to do? Where does she find time to go to work? 

My advice to you is if you want to keep her, then put a computer chip in her arm so you know where she is and strap a tiny camcorder to her ass. I can't believe that you would put up with this kind of crap and then blames you for accusing her. Did you explain to her that YOU HAVE AT LEAST 8 REASONS FOR ACCUSING!

You said your leaving out many details. You telling us there's more?. Friend you have to find your back bone and get this woman out of your life. Take this stuff to your lawyer and move on with your life ASAP. I don't honestly know what anyone on the forum could do to help you. You won't help yourself so how could we help you out. I hate to say this but your heading for a padded cell if you don't get out of this situation. Please listen to what were telling you.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> The other thing, as far as actually talking to her and bringing out my unhappiness, as I said in an early post we work different shifts. It would either have to be electronic, over the phone, wait up until midnight, or wait for the weekend.


Dude if your chick gave a damn about what you thought or had to say she would be cheaten on you.

Action speak louder the words so start a big 180 and when she askes why the distance and lack of contact ...you tell her you are letting her go.

The sad part is it might take her a few weeks to even notice your indifference and even mention your 180.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

6301 said:


> and strap a tiny camcorder to her ass.


It works better to strap the camcorder to her belly and point it down, but the inside of her thigh works, just make sure you point it up.

On a serious note the crap OP would have to hear if he planted a VAR would be destroying for him!


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

6301 said:


> Friend. I don't know why your here. If you need to be anywhere is at an attorney's office Bad Memory pointed it out to you. 8 times she cheated. Do you now know why she doesn't want you to talk to anybody about your personal problems? She's a walking, talking, living, breathing example of not only a cheater but a lousy wife. She could make a fortune giving advice on "How to cheat and keep a husband under your thumb".
> 
> You find a empty box of condoms in a tissue box. A purse full of condoms. She's screwing a guy while pregnant and you still don't know what to do? Where does she find time to go to work?
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

So where exactly is your do not cross line?

She's had multiple guys , at least made out with one, had full on sex repeatedly with another, and burned through a box of condoms.

Is there a point where you'll actually kick her out and file for D?


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Another ides is buy her a collar and put a invisible fence around her vagina.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

hurtnconfused

Some people on TAM come across strong from the get go while still offering great advice.

Time is on your side. What your wife has done is horrible.

But you have to realize a few things before any of this advice makes any sense.

You did not cause your wife to cheat. That was her decision.

If you or your marriage has left her unsatisfied then she could have spoken to you about her feelings and what you two could do to fix it.

Instead she lies to you and cheats on you.

So realize your wife is broken. You did not break her. You cannot fix her.

And before you two can fix your marriage and reconcile she needs to own what she has done, to be remorseful for her horrible decisions.

And she needs to clearly understand what she needs to do to fix her and the marriage (heavy lifting).

All you can do now is put boundaries in place to prevent further damage to you, your marriage and your family.

-DNA the kids is a good idea. Do not tell her.
-See an attorney to know your rights if you choose divorce. Do not tell her.
-Separate your finances and destroy any joint cards. Do not tell her until after it is done.

When you tell her make sure she understands that you are protecting yourself and the kids.

Then get some good counseling for both of you.

Because your wife is a serial cheater and is a very selfish person.

Time is on your side. Use it wisely. But definitely use it.

Read "No More Mr Nice Guy & Married Man Sex Life". They are short and sweet books that will help you.

Do not judge your wife on what she says but by her actions.

And judging by her actions you sound as if you know where her heart lies.

So get yourself in a better position to make sound decisions for you and your family.

*Take control *and good luck.

HM64


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

BTW, the book "Married Mans Sex Life" has nothing to do about sex.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> When she got home, she told me the truth, that she had slept with him a couple times the summer before, after she was already pregnant, and they realized it was stupid and just became "friends".


 @OP: This has been brought up before, but why again are you not doing DNA testing on all of your children? Based on her track record of consistent lying, how can you ever use the word "truth" in the same sentence as "she told me"? The real truth is that you have no idea if they are really your children, as no matter what you know, you will never know the whole truth about the amount of cheating that she has done. You do not need to ask even tell her. Just swab the inside of their mouths and send it in for testing.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Sorry, but if you don't get that DNA test, you are living in denial. Might still be yours, but you gotta find out.

And either way - time to show your wife the door. You will never trust her again.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Dear hurtnconfused120,

Before you stand any chance of fixing your marriage, you need to fix yourself. As broken as your WW is, you are more broken because you have enabled her cheating, lying behavior.

Read _"No More Mr. Nice Guy!"_ by Robert Glover. Here is a link to an on-line version of the book:

https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

In the meantime, please take the advice of the other posters. Start to detach from her by limiting your conversations to only those things that you need to discuss with her (e.g., your children). DNA test your children. Consult an attorney to learn what your rights and obligations will be if you decide to divorce her. Start to do things on your own for the sake of your own mental health (continue working out, go out with friends, start a new hobby). Get counseling for yourself and if the emotional pain is too much consult with a doctor about medication that can help you deal with this (antidepressants).

Finally, below is something I sent to another OP who was as lost as you seem to be. Perhaps it can help you:

_From reading your notes, it is clear that you were absent from class the day they handed out the "how to be happy" instructions. So let me fill you in on The 10 Rules for Happiness:

Rule No. 1: You only get one life; never forget that. Corollary: You don't know how long you will live, you could live another 50 years or you might die tomorrow; never forget that either.

Rule No. 2: Deal with things as they really are, not as you would like them to be. Face up to your problems rather than pretending they don't exist or hoping they will simply go away.

Rule No. 3: You are solely responsible for your own happiness: don't expect or look to others to make you happy.

Rule No. 4: Your decisions and actions will have the greatest impact on your happiness. If you do the right things, your life will be better and vice versa. Corollary: Be honest with yourself about your failings and genuinely seek to improve yourself.

Rule No. 5: There is no guarantee that you will always be happy: some people win life's lottery, most don't and some people get the shaft. Corollary 1: Don't complain about the cards you are dealt or wallow in self-pity. Instead, focus on what you can control and learn not to worry about the rest. Corollary 2: Understand that it sometimes takes time and effort to regain your happiness.

Rule No. 6: Understand what makes you happy and what doesn't. Corollary 1: Since you will change over time, reconsider from time to time what will make you happy now and adjust your decisions and actions accordingly. Corollary 2: When something happens that makes you very unhappy, consider the totality of the situation: sometimes cutting down a few trees is the answer, other times you need to look for a new forest in which to live.

Rule No. 7: Do what makes you happy. Don't do what others (parents, friends, bosses, spouses, even children) want you to do unless it is what makes you happy. This might sound selfish but it's not. Some people are happiest when they are serving others (e.g., firemen, Mother Teresa). 

Rule No. 8: If you are unhappy about something, eliminate it from your life or, if that is not possible, minimize the degree of unhappiness it can cause you. If it's a situation (like a bad job), change it. If it's a thing (like a poorly operating car), get rid of it. If it's a person (like a wayward spouse), stop interacting or least minimize contact with the person. Corollary: When something or someone starts to cause you unhappiness, take action immediately; don't wait around hoping things will get better.

Rule No. 9: You don't apologize to anyone for doing what makes you happy. Corollary: You have no obligation to explain yourself or justify your decisions or actions. If you choose to do so, it should only be because it is to your advantage to do so.

Rule No. 10: Be the best person you can be, as you measure things. For most men, this means being fit and attractive to members of the opposite sex, being financially successfully and being emotionally strong and independent. But if you measure life success differently (e.g., displaying Christian virtues, gaining notoriety, acquiring power), then make these the main focus of you efforts.

If we apply these rules to your situation, it become readily apparent that you are breaking all the rules. For example:

☻ You are focused in the moment rather than thinking about how you want to live the rest of your life (violation of Rule No. 1). 

☻ You are more concerned about what your W may or may not have done rather than dealing with what you know she has done (violation of Rule No. 2).

☻ You seek affirmation from your W of your self-worth and the guidance of strangers as to what you should do, rather than taking responsibility for yourself (violation of Rule Nos. 3, 4 and 9).

☻ You are reluctant to take steps to improve your situation and instead are wallowing in self-pity and shame (violation of Rule Nos. 5, 7, 8 and 10).

☻ You seem not to have thought deeply about what you really want out of life (violation of Rule No. 6). 

☻ You reject the notion that your life may have to radically change in order for you to (eventually) be happy (another violation of Rule No. 6).

Based on the facts as you have recited them, I believe you have ample reason to be unhappy in your current circumstances and sufficient justification for taking action. So let me offer you an alternative approach to your problem that is consistent with the Rules of Happiness:

1. Sit your W down and tell her that you are so unhappy with your marriage that you are prepared to end it. Explain that, given what you know (OM's note, her hiding her phone messages, etc.), you can only conclude that either she is having an affair or that she doesn't care about you (as these are the only two reasons why she would not have taken steps to address your concerns when you first raised them). Say that, in either case, you would rather end your marriage than continue it since you deserve and are confident that you can have better than what you have right now.

2. Tell her that, out of love for her and your children, you are willing to give her one last chance to save her marriage and prove to you that she is a worthy wife. This requires her telling you everything that has happened between her and her boss, showing you all of her e-mails and text messages, giving you access to all of her communications in the future, immediately terminating all contact with her boss, demonstrating by word and deed on a daily basis that she loves and respects you and doing whatever else you require for her to prove her worth.

3. Tell her that it is her choice whether to do these things or not but, if she chooses not to, you plan to hire an attorney and file for divorce.

4. Stay calm and collected and don't argue with her. If she questions or challenges anything you say, calmly reply that she now knows what you expect of her and it is up to her to decide what she wants to do. Repeat your message as many times as necessary until she realizes that you mean what you say.

5. Give her a very short period of time to consider this. For example, tell her that you plan to speak to an attorney the next day so, if she wants to save her marriage, she has but a few hours to accept your offer.

6. If she refuses, immediately speak to an attorney and commence divorce proceedings.

7. If she agrees, continue to monitor her closely to make sure she does not go underground. Don't tolerate her complaining or pouting for more than a couple of days. If you get any indication that she is not serious about following through with her promise, start divorce proceedings.

8. For the foreseeable future, be cordial toward your W but nothing more. Don't initiate conversations, compliment her, argue with her or do anything else that would lead her to believe that she is anything special to you. Act at all times like a man who knows what he wants and knows that he can get what he wants, if not from her, then somewhere else.

9. Begin to take steps to improve yourself (exercise, work, activities). Make this -- along with your kids -- the focus of your life for now.

10. Start to educate yourself on what it takes to be a man in the 21st century. A good place to start is to read "The Married Man Sex Life Primer" by Athol Kay.

If you take these steps, I can't guarantee that you will end up in a happy marriage with your current W but I can promise that, eventually, you will give yourself the greatest chance of finding true happiness. The key point is that you can't control your W but you can control you. Hence, you should be doing the things that will eventually make you happy, whether your W wants to be with you or not.

I'm not saying any of this will be easy; it may be the hardest thing you will ever have to do. But unless you do it, your life will likely only get worse._

Wishing you the best.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

<<When she got home, she told me the truth, that she had slept with him a couple times the summer before, after she was already pregnant, and they realized it was stupid and just became "friends".>>

You do realize now, that this is NOT the truth, right. The truth would be ALL the truth, not just the part she is willnig to admit to at this point.

Trickle truth is the survival mode all cheaters go into when they only admit to what you already know, and just a little bit of it. 

My WHs was not a physical affair but even he would only admit to , a few phone calls , over a few months, and then some texting, and then whatever else I found until it turns out it was a 5 month affair with hundreds,thousands? of texts, sexting, secret emails, deleting phone history and aim apps daily, etc. But always just that little next bit until you have it all and they have to admit. 

You are not there yet.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

hurtnconfused120,

I'm truly sympathetic to your situation. Let me add my two cents about why you should get DNA tests for all your children.

Believe it or not you are very early on in this process even though the last month and a half likely feel like the longest of your life. It's likely that your emotions have flip flopped a few times by now; let me tell you it's just beginning. After the healing is done, or as done as it will get, and whether you choose to R or D, ultimately you will want to know the truth. Not knowing the truth is like cancer. It builds resentment inside you without you knowing. Then when it is sufficient in size you become obsessed by it.

You may think your wife is being truthful now. Chances are she is not 100%. You know it by now and need to accept this. One thing you can be sure about is the parentage of your children. Notice I said 'your' children. This is because I believe if you R and maybe even if you D they should be treated as 'your' children. They are completely innocent in this and they deserve to have a father. Even if you are not bio-dad you can be The Dad.

I know this because it is my situation. I found out about my wife's affairs 22 years after the fact. Doing the calendar math it really looked like a coin toss as to whether or not I am my youngest son's bio-dad. Him being 21, I decided to tell him and let him decide if he wanted to do a DNA test. He did not want the test because he said it would not change anything. This was the greatest gift I have ever received but it is difficult as well. The difficulty is the cancer of doubt. Even though it does not matter, I still find myself wondering. And now little things said make me wonder if he said it because he has doubt as well.

Good luck to you. I don't know why but your story really strikes a chord in me. You are in my prayers.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

PamJ

You are so right about the trickle truth. The funny thing is this is what ends up causing you to doubt even when/if you get the whole truth. They think they're saving you or themselves but not giving you all the truth but in the end they destroy your ability to trust them. I don't know if the trust ever completely comes back. I hope so but I'm not there yet (13 months past D day).


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

hurtnconfused120 said:


> ...I'm going off her word, which yes I know has been total crap. If I'm going to try this one last time, *I have to believe to a point*.


You'd be crazy to believe anything she says right now. She's a serial cheater, liar, rug-sweeper, trickle-truthing, unremorseful, and can't be trusted



hurtnconfused120 said:


> ..Throwing a DNA test, divorce papers, lie detector tests, telling everyone, anything like that will most likely end us for sure.


So do nothing? How's that working for ya?
So if you did all of those things and the marriage ended, you would blame yourself?? That makes no sense...think about it.

Those items you listed need to happen BEFORE any reconciliation, if that's what you want. And if she is actually repenting, she will want to help you heal and will comply with anything you need. Her actions show that she just wants to rug-sweep, so she is not remorseful at all, and she doesn't care what you think. 

A remorseful spouse who wants to save the marriage should be doing the heavy lifting.



hurtnconfused120 said:


> ..
> So your saying, in the middle of the day, when she's in a good mood and doesn't think anything is wrong, I should just bring stuff up and cause further problems?


You are looking at this wrong. Things are not alright here. You deserve answers, so stop worrying about whether you are going to cause problems for her. That shouldn't be your concern right now....shouldn't be hers either. 

Also, you didn't cause these problems, she did. At what point to do get mad about what she has done? You can't "nice" your way into a happy marriage this way.



hurtnconfused120 said:


> ..I want a loving wife who shows me as much as I show her.


You won't get it the way you have been going. You may never get that type of wife out of this woman, but you can't worry about that. You can only control what you do. You can't make her into something she's not.



Gabriel said:


> Sorry, but if you don't get that DNA test, you are living in denial. Might still be yours, but you gotta find out.
> 
> And either way - time to show your wife the door. You will never trust her again.


:iagree: THIS!

After all of the lies, you will NEVER be able to trust this woman, and you will NEVER have the whole story of what she has done behind your back over the years.

She is a terrible wife. You gotta man up here.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Why would she quit cheating? 8 of the times she got caught, there were no consequences, well there were for you but she could care less for you. In fact, she was rewarded. Life went back to normal, you at home minding the kids while she played the field. And what a big field.

Cheaters are expert liars. There is a 100% chance she is lying now. One thing she isn't lying about is you being the father of your children. The reason she isn't lying is that she doesn't really know who the father is.

Just so you know how bad this is, this has to be in the running for the worst case I have seen here in three years. I am truly sorry but you have got to quit lying to yourself.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Btw, check with other sources, google serial cheaters.


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## Clawed (May 21, 2013)

PamJ said:


> <<When she got home, she told me the truth, that she had slept with him a couple times the summer before, after she was already pregnant, and they realized it was stupid and just became "friends".>>
> 
> You do realize now, that this is NOT the truth, right. The truth would be ALL the truth, not just the part she is willnig to admit to at this point.
> 
> ...


This is absolutely true. There is no way she would spill the entire truth, and that should be enough to wake you up to the harsh reality here.

It's extremely unlikely cheaters would ever give you the entire truth, *if caught*. If it's confessed without your knowledge you have a better chance of trusting them.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

<<You are so right about the trickle truth. The funny thing is this is what ends up causing you to doubt even when/if you get the whole truth. They think they're saving you or themselves but not giving you all the truth but in the end they destroy your ability to trust them. I don't know if the trust ever completely comes back. I hope so but I'm not there yet (13 months past D day)>>

It will take a long time to get the trust back. My H only finally gave in and told me what I needed to know because I told him it was the only way for us to stay together. I got that he was afraid I would call it quits but I told him I had to know what I was forgiving him for, to begin to move on and forgive. you KNOW when there's more you're not getting, you just know.

I would ask him questions, and he would answer them , and even though I felt they were the truth, I had to say, 'or so you say' or "you said that the LAST time', sometimes to him sometimes just to myself. He knew I had no reason to believe him.

Eventually it all came out. He knew/knows he had no more chances. I was ready to let him go for my own sanity and well being. That's when he realized he had to tell me all.

I am still mad at him for taking a chance on losing me for some fantasy. I have checked up on him, he is transparent about everything, he blocked her calls, cxld emails etc. I put a VAR in his car for a few months but never once heard anything other than business or other innocent calls. 

THIS is what it takes to start to heal. Looking and finding nothing, over and over again.

You have a long way to go. It has been 5 months for me and I am still sometimes mad and sad that he did this, but he is doing all the right things now.


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