# Situation Update and a Dilemma



## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

Okay, for those of you who have read my other threads and posted such kind and helpful comments, things have changed a little recently.

3 weeks ago my husband spent the Saturday drinking - he was in an absolutely vile mood all day, ranting about one thing or another so I went out for a walk for a couple of hours. I had a good long think and decided to confront him about his behaviour the next day when we was sober. The following day, before I had a chance to raise the subject, he poured another drink. I then pointed out to him that I spend most of my time totally stressed but had spent the previous day actually frightened at times. He didn't take it too well at first so I walked out of the room and into my office to get some work done. Ten minutes later, he came an apologised, poured the rest of his bottle of whiskey down the sink and has not had a drink in the house since then. He does have a drink on our regular weekly night out, but this hasn't caused a problem so far. He has also started playing badminton twice a week in a bid to get himself healthier and fitter.

The following week, we had another argument during which I confessed that I haven't been happy in our marriage for more than a year and that I would leave him if I could afford to do so. I told him that I would rather sleep on my own and that the lack of sex was driving me crazy - that our marriage is platonic. He confessed that he is worried about the lack of intimacy but just never feels sexual in any way - he is hoping that sobriety and an improvement in health will bring his mojo back. I told him that at present I don't feel that I want sex with him anyway, that our marriage has deteriorated too far for that. He begged me to give our marriage another chance and I agreed to do so.

Since then, we still haven't had sex (it's been 6 months now and we only had sex 5 times in the past year) and there is no sign that this will change. He makes sure to compliment me on a regular basis (as he always has). However, I have lost any feelings of attraction I felt towards him and find it difficult to return the compliments as this would just be false.

The dilemma I have is that today he went to collect a Valentine's present he has got for me - he tried to give it to me when he arrived home, but I've asked him to keep it until Valentine's Day (Saturday) and give it to me then. The problem is that he will make these gestures, give compliments, etc and do all sorts of "romantic" stuff, but still shows no signs of having any desire to have sex with me. For my part, I feel as if the whole things is false, a hypocrisy - we're living in a sham of a marriage and he's making romantic gestures - I feel as if the whole thing is totally false. He gets totally passionate about other stuff, especially politics and social injustices, but seems to have no passion for me at all. When I agreed to carry on trying with the marriage we did have a kiss that was a little more than the usual peck on the cheek/mouth and a hug, but that's about all that has happened between us physically so far.

I know that if and when we do start to have sex again, there a lot of work to be done on making the sex good - so far it has been rough and more porn-style than the sort of sex I was hoping to achieve. He scorns the phrase "making love" and it's something that I don't think he's ever done. The sex is very one-night stand in style and I know it will be an uphill challenge for me to get across to him that I want sex to be more meaningful, a way of communicating our love for each other, rather than an activity that we do. The other problem is that because the lack of sex has been causing a problem for most of our two year marriage, I've reached the stage where he just doesn't turn me on - the thought of having sex with him is pretty distasteful right now and I don't know if this can be fixed. I would welcome any advice on whether this can be solved and how to go about doing so


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

#1 Has he started bathing frequently?

#2 Are his romantic Gestures really a Sham or is that just your reaction to the whole situation? 

#3 His attitude towards sex matches his performance. 

So with #1 If he still stinks you are not going to want to be with him. You are already living semi separated. You cant get close when you aren't together.

#2 Often Frustration and insecurity lead us to believe that our feelings reflect the truth of another persons thoughts, feelings, or intentions. You need to just sit back a second and decide if he is really trying to scam you or if he really wants to save this. Because if he is in it for the save he will make the changes in his habits.

3 he has a warped perception of sex. He sees it as a temporary activity instead of as a lifestyle of love and communication. That is going to take some work to fix. perhaps professional help.

MN


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

On the one hand you seem to be complaining that 'he never approaches you about sex' and the lack of sex.

On the other hand you say you are repulsed at the thought of him touching you.

Would you rather him not approach you?

You need to resolve these two conflicting feelings and go from there.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

jorgegene said:


> On the one hand you seem to be complaining that 'he never approaches you about sex' and the lack of sex.
> 
> On the other hand you say you are repulsed at the thought of him touching you.
> 
> ...


The problem is that she's still in a feedback loop. It's been expressed by others in the SIM forum where their SO won't have sex with them and eventually, they lose their attraction for the SO. So the original complaint is still there; however, their desire has disappeared too so that now both feelings are present within the aggrieved spouse. Seems like you have to attack one or the other first. If you go for the lack of sex issue first, then it's a "fake it 'til you make it" approach where you have sex even if repulsed because you are working on the lack of libido that your SO has. Otherwise, the SO has to work on building attraction - which it appears doobie's H is trying to do now. It's up to doobie to let her H know what things he needs to do to build that attraction back.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

doobie said:


> ....3 weeks ago ....The following day, ...he came an apologised, poured the rest of his bottle of whiskey down the sink and has not had a drink in the house since then. .....He has also started playing badminton twice a week in a bid to get himself healthier and fitter.
> 
> The following week... He confessed that he is worried about the lack of intimacy but just never feels sexual in any way - he is hoping that sobriety and an improvement in health will bring his mojo back. ....He begged me to give our marriage another chance and I agreed to do so.
> 
> ...


Having been in a sex starved marriage, my heart goes out to you.

Alcohol can be a huge issue for men. Hopefully you understand that he may have a disease/addiction that will take time to resolve and that no matter how much he may want to change it will take time for his body to actually change.

Prevalence of sexual dysfunction in male subjects with alcohol dependence

If you read this study you will see that even if he wanted to make love to you, he might not be able to for some time.

While my wife and I had other problems in the end she became very angry at me for a variety of reasons. I made changes to my life that made her feel more loved. I asked her forgiveness. The sex therapist we were using eventually confronted my wife and told her that she needed to get over her anger at me and her anger at herself. My wife needed to understand that I was trying to save our marriage and that I was only going to stick around for a limited time. 

It all came down to what did my wife want, divorce or marriage. If my wife wanted marriage she needed to forgive, learn to love me again and have sex with me again.

If your husband is serious in his changes and you two should talk about those, then the choice of marraige versus divorce is yours to make. Choose wisely as you will live with that choice.

You probably should discuss with him some of each of your dreams about what a happy marriage entails, what happy fulfilling sex entails. Talking about such things also helps you visualize what it is that the two of your are trying to ahcieve as motivation for the day to day changes that it will take to get there.

Good luck to you.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Doobie, what do you mean by "porn style" sex? If I recall correctly, your H did some pretty bad stuff to you sexually where he was trying to stuff you silly with large objects and/or fists. Is that the style of sex you are referring to or is it something else now?


----------



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Nothing changes my opinion.

I think your husband is disgusting, and a pig, and you should have left him like yesterday...

I'm glad he's lightened up on the drinking, but that doesn't excuse or improve all his other major issues.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I can relate to so much of your post. I don't have any advice or I'd not be in the situation myself but I hope things will start turning around for you. 
It's been about the same length of time since sex for me too so I get the wanting it but also not feeling turned on by him or knowing that if you do get sex, the kind of sex you get won't fill the need you've been looking for. 

I think for that to change he'd have to earn your trust. Make you feel safe to want sex with him knowing he won't let you down and just end up right back to where you are now. It will probably take a lot of time and him showing you he can make changes on his own.

Is there anything he has been needing or wanting that could help make him open up some more?


----------



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Doobie, what do you mean by "porn style" sex? If I recall correctly, your H did some pretty bad stuff to you sexually where he was trying to stuff you silly with large objects and/or fists. Is that the style of sex you are referring to or is it something else now?


Yes. He sexually abuses her, withholds sex, don't brush his teeth or bathe for weeks, etc! :soapbox:

If I was a friend of hers in real life, I'd kick his tail!


----------



## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

Thank you all so much for your responses and I'll try to address your questions.

He has started to bathe more frequently - twice, sometimes three times a week.

I don't think his romantic gestures are a sham - he is quite romantic (more so than I am in lots of ways), but the gestures leave me cold when there is so much wrong with the relationship.

As for his attitude towards sex, I think this is pretty much ingrained. He and his first wife were swingers and saw sex as a hobby that they both enjoyed. He likes sex to be rough but I suspect that this may be partly to do with the fact that after half a bottle of scotch you become a bit desensitised physically and would need it rough to even start feeling it. I've found it quite difficult in the past to treat his d**k as roughly as he likes because I think it would hurt - however, I have managed to overcome that and bash it about a bit.

I think Plan 9 has hit the nail on the head here - the past 2 years (just about all of our marriage) has consisted of him rarely wanting sex and now I've just lost the attraction I felt towards him. He has made huge changes to his lifestyle which I appreciate. However, romantic gestures and flattering comments (this must be his love language) don't turn me on. I need physical touch to get turned on and he seems to just not be particularly physical at all.

As for porn style sex, what I really mean is that he begins with a quick fumble (usually going straight for the genitals) and then proceeds to do everything really hard and really fast which does nothing for me at all. It ends up being painful and I end up concentrating so hard on trying to feel turned on that it just doesn't happen. Even if I start off by feeling turned on, the rough, fast rubbing soon puts paid to that. His penis is quite large so when the PIV bit starts I'm usually dry from the rough handling and as soon as he puts it in, it hurts. It's then a matter of slamming it in as far as he can get it (I'm actually quite tiny, 4ft10 and very slim build) while keeping my legs pushed up towards my shoulders. Because I'm so small, this means I can't bend my knees around him so I'm stuck in a painful and uncomfortable position which means that I can't relax and enjoy any of it. He doesn't fist or poke objects into me, it's just that he's so big it hurts unless I get really turned on first. I've had other lovers as big as him and it hasn't been a problem before as they've always managed to get me turned on and also listened if I've said I'm uncomfortable. I have asked my H to be gentler but he doesn't seem able to lighten the touch at all. We've also tried other positions which don't seem to help. When I go on top, I'm so conscious of him wanting it hard and fast that I feel too self conscious to slow things down to my own pace. When I do so, he doesn't give any indication that he's enjoying it at all and this makes me feel so stupid. When we do it dog style, it's the same thing - he's slamming into me from behind and going so deep that it hurts.

I know he likes talking dirty and this is something I'm not averse to. I've read loads of articles on how to do this, how to start off, etc, but his talking dirty is very graphic and very different from my ideas on how to talk dirty. I have done the sort of dirty talk that I know he likes, but I'm always conscious that it feels totally unnatural to me to be using those words (no, I'm not a prude but there are certain words that I find offensive and have just never used on prinicipal) and this makes the whole thing seem strained.

After the two arguments that led to the changes, he's just made the changes without too much discussion on it. I think he feels that as long as he makes the effort, the less we discuss it the better. I now feel like when we do begin to have sex again we're going to have to have a very frank discussion about the details of sex - it's a difficult subject to bring up right now with the sex being non existent. I also find it difficult to discuss sex with him at all because of the crude language he uses for both the act and the body parts. 

Curious Wife, I do appreciate what you've said. I can't leave him at the moment - I have absolutely no spare money, only just made the rent this month. In order to leave I would need to save 2 months rent and an agency fee which is seeming pretty much impossible right now. He's not earning much at all and everything I earn goes on rent and bills. This is why I have been feeling for a long time that we could probably live together much easier if I moved into the spare room. I don't like sleeping with him, avoid going to be for as long as possible every night and when I do go to bed I find it practically impossible to fall asleep as lying there next to him makes me more aware of the problems we have. I really feel that having a little space and my own room may make it easier for us to get things back on track. 

That said, how much effort he's likely to put into getting the sex back remains to be seen. I need him to make these efforts but can't see how he's going to be able to do this when he has no sex drive at all. He's quite happy for us to live together being platonically romantic but not having sex. I really can't see that there's much of an incentive from his point of view and this is worrying me.

Once again, thanks so much everybody for taking the time and trouble to leave your comments, I really do value the input.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Doobie
I completely understand why the romantic gestures don't work - having had the same when my wife was very LD. Romantic gestures are wonderful in a romantic, loving, sexual relationship, but they are only a frustrating reminder of what you don't have when those things are missing.

You posts are so terribly sad. I think of all the men (some of them here) would would give anything to be with a woman who would love them, and be intimate with them. Men who would be wonderful kind lovers if only their wives gave them a chance. 

I spent many years wanting nothing more than to have a intimate life with my wife. Wanting to cuddle on the sofa, then go to bed. Wanting everything from candle-light and massage oil, followed by slow lovemaking, to wild exciting sex on the bed, sofa, or nearest vaguely-flat surface. 

While things are not perfect, I now have a lot of that, and it is every bit as wonderful as I thought it would be.

You need to stop trying to fix the un-fixable, and just plan to leave.


----------



## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

intheory said:


> doobie,
> 
> I agree with CuriousWife and richardsharpe.
> 
> ...


Hell, I'd leave if I had £1,000  - I'm feeling pretty much trapped at the moment and it sucks. Dreading Valentine's Day tomorrow - having to join in the farce of pretending that we're a loving romantic couple just so as not to upset him after he's made the effort. Also, haven't bought him anything or a card. I really hadn't expected him to get anything for me.


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

I wouldn't put too much credence in his promises. As the old saying goes "Action talks, bull$h!t walks".

I do hope though that you can takeaway things from *No More Mr Nice Guy*.


----------



## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

doobie is it your money that bought the house or am I thinking of another poster?


----------



## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

Holland said:


> doobie is it your money that bought the house or am I thinking of another poster?


Holland, we don't own the house, it's rented. When we moved here, I had about £1,000 saved up and used that for the first 2 months rent and the agency fee. However, since then I haven't been able to save anything at all. My income is not regular and he hasn't had much work at all. I've just handed over all I had in the bank to make this month's rent (he had nothing this month) and I have an electric bill due. I just find it so hard to save up any amount - I work freelance and this time of the year is not great income wise.

To move out, I would need at least £1,000 again and I know that it would take months to save this amount with the expenses we already have.

Dogbert, I used the link you posted to get a free download of No More Mr. Nice Guy - a very interesting read and helpful too, so thank you so much for posting that.

I'm not holding my breath on his promises, but he does seem to have made a real change, especially as far as alcohol is concerned - he only has a drink on the one night of the week that we go out. This has made a huge difference to his moods and life is quite a bit easier. However, I still have loads of built up resentment and anger which I find difficult to deal with. He's also been going to his badminton class twice a week and I'm hoping that the exercise, combined with the lack of alcohol, will mean that his health will improve.

While he's still shown absolutely no interest in sex so far, it's early days. If and when he does show some interest, I then need to address the issues of the type of sex we had in an effort to improve our sex life. The obvious solution would be to refuse to have sex with him until he listens to me and starts doing some of the stuff that I like - however, I'm afraid that if I do refuse sex, then it won't bother him enough to make any effort to change. He seems quite happy to have a celibate life. 

At the moment, I'm just taking it one day at a time. I don't hold out great hopes for the future but while I'm stuck in this situation I may as well do all that I can as well to try to improve things.


----------

