# My Wife's Married Male Friend



## Lilly_daddy

Hi All. Let me start by saying that I believe that a marriage is worth saving up to a point and that right now I am getting there. I moved my family to another city to kind of start over. My Family is very important to me and I want them to have the best life they can. We enrolled my daughter in a school so she could start JK. 

Some time went by and My Wife became friends with a couple who aren't technically married but they have been together for almost ten years and appear to have a stable relationship which my wife and I have not had in a very long time. She had even spent time there and had stayed there pretty late. She told me that these friends of hers had made her laugh and she felt good to have them. I was happy about this because my wife is a friendly person and deserves to have good friends. She became friends with the Wife first and then the husband. So anyway she became friends with them and engaged in a great deal of texting which for my liking became. I really didn't care too much for the texting because it semed to take up a lot of her time when she was at home and I felt as though it was taking time away from our 3 kids. Then a while back my wife and I were discussing something and she asked me if I would ever consider taking a dance class with her. She mentioned ballroom dancing and I told her yeah I would take a class with you for sure. She then proceeded to ask If I would have a problem if she took a class where she would have another male partner. I promptly said "no". The reason behind this response was because My Wife and I have never had opposite sex friends outside of our relationship and I kinda had a feeling that she was trying to get at something about perhaps doing something with her new married male friend. She didn't come right out and say his name but I had a hunch. So later the next day I think it was the tires on our car needed replacing so I told her I was gonna take care of it and I could get a good deal from my tire guy. Well she promptly went into a frenzy..telling me I didn't value her input and that her feelings in the matter and that she was going to be taking a dance class with her "partner" and that they were gonna be doing the kind of dancing that they wanted to do. All this because I wanted to get tires for the car. I ended up not getting the tires and came back home and got bargain basement tires that she wanted...she actually wanted to get second hand tires. 

I was infuriated that she was going to dance with this guy and more so at the fact that she never even had the courtesy of asking me when I had already found out that she basically told me I had to be alright with it. I even went as far as to talk with his wife about it and tell her how I felt. she agreed with me and told him he couldn't dance if I did not agree with it. He asked his wife and she said yes but I'm not comfortable at all with my Wife spending any time with another man especially in that context. Then there was the sexting with an ex boyfriend that I caught her doing. I was suspicious because my wife hides her phone all the time and I was completely floored when I read the things that they were sending each other. I almost walked out on her. She Promptly ended contact with him and deleted him from her phone. This has made me distrust her intensely. The contact with her new friends almost ended because of what she had done with this guy.


Getting back to the dancing...Wanting to intentionally spend this kind of time with a male friend infuriated me and I have never been the jealous type until all this happened. When spring arrived she even became getting dressed up with makeup and hair all done up just to bring my daughter to school in the morning. I immediately thought it was because of her male friend but she told me it was because she was feeling better about herself. I could not help but think this was for different reasons. My Wife has an interest in photography which I share with her but she felt the need to go out to take photos with her new male friend because he has a nice dslr camera and he knows spots around the city. This has caused me to be very suspicious of his motives as he is friendly with my wife and I don't like it at all. My Wife and I have never had opposite sex friends outside of our relationship and I feel there is a very good reason for this. I don't think it's appropriate. I allowed my wife one time to go out for night pics with this guy and she left the house at 9:15 and didn't return until 1 am. I was pissed off and she then told me she wasn't gonna take night pics with him for a while. I recently had been privy to my wife's text messages and noticed that she had plans to sneak out to take night pics without telling me. There has been so much animosity between me and this guy just under the surface...Now I don't even talk with him or his wife because I can't fathom how she can be ok with My Wife and Him being out alone like that. Part of me thought they might be more "open" then I once thought. Also My Wife has been discussing starting a photo business with this guy behind my back. She is so determined to do things with him...her family has notice her change in behaviour around him....excessive make up...getitng herself dolled up when he's around. She doesn't listen when people tell her what she's doing is wrong. Even his Wife has told her she needs to respect my feelings and she should be making me dance with her and take pictures. As it stand right now I'm waiting for my Wife to go and sneak out to take these pics so I can confront her and basically make her decide because I won't be allowing her to spend any more time with him at this point. Please I need some perspective on this as I have read how these things can always turn into something else and I don't like being told I need to "get over" it or just trust her because situations like this never start out full blown...they always have a way of developing over time. I don't plan on being one of those guys who's wife sits him down to tell him that it" just happened" and she doesn't know how because I know exactly how it happened....because I didn't take steps to prevent it from happening in the first place.


----------



## angelpixie

L_Daddy, I saw that you've been a member here for quite a while, so I went and looked for a little background on your story. It sounds like your wife has a history of not respecting you and your opinions, needs, etc. She knows full well that what she is doing is not what you want. She was sexting with an ex-bf, even though she's a married woman. She's spending all of this time with another woman's partner, even though you've told her you don't like it, and even though you told her _you_ would be happy to try dancing with her. 

I don't think anyone here is going to tell you to 'get over it.' I'm not one to jump on the "she's having an affair" bandwagon, but in this case, if she's not sleeping with this guy, it will really shock me. She's planning on going into business with him. She's spending all her time with him. She's being secretive with you, antagonistic with you, and starting to pretty herself up when she's going out of the house. 

From your other posts, she was making you work 7 days a week without contributing anything of her own, denying you the time you wanted to spend with your daughter. Among other things. You haven't given her any consequences for anything she's done. Why should she stop?

I don't blame you for being at the point where you are done. This is not about saving a marriage. It's about your own self-respect. It's time you start planning for a split. Don't let her keep using your money if she's not contributing anything, and is spending her time with another man. Start looking for a lawyer and looking into your rights on custody and visitation for your daughter, but don't tell her any of this. You've already told her many times how you feel. Now it's time to act. Good luck and keep us posted.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Thank You so very much for the support. I just don't get how she can think it's ok to spend this time with him. What I really don't like is that his wife is ok with her spending time with him. She used to even spend time in his truck during the cold days and talk with him...of course she would always tell me tho. Even so I have a hard time with her spending any time with him and plan on giving her an ultimatum. She has gone out maybe four to five times with him but the outings last a few hours. Right now her family is on my side..Thank you so much for the words of encouragement


----------



## TBT

Lilly_daddy said:


> I just don't get how she can think it's ok to spend this time with him.


In my opinion,considering what anglepixie posted about her expecting you to work 7 days a week,sexting with an ex-bf and what she is blatantly doing now,she is entirely self-centered.She doesn't have the same marital values as you and has shown you nothing but a total lack of respect.

As has been suggested you really need to be getting all your ducks in a row as far as possible divorce,your rights and finances are concerned.I've always believed that people will treat us the way we allow them.Time for her to get on the bus with you and make you and your marriage her first priority or move on.

I really hope that this hasn't gone too far with the OM that the marriage won't be salvageable,but it really doesn't sound good.Wish you the best and I hope you don't take anymore guff without laying out some hard consequences.Take care.


----------



## seeking sanity

Here's the deal: She doesn't "think" it's okay to spend time. There's nothing rationale about it. She "feels" good being around him, because he's new and therefore exciting and they are either IN an affair, or very close to it.

Your "feelings" mean absolutely nothing to her. You're just the parent at this point that is getting in the way of her good time.

Don't expect any support, rationale conversation or respect from her until you real exert yourself. And even then she will/may just go dark with him. You need to prepare yourself for the possibility (likelihood) they are having sex. And have been for some time.

If you want to deal with this problem: 1. Talk to the husbands wife and share your concern. 2. Tell her that you will divorce her if the disrespect continues. 3. Tell her you'll ready to kick her out. 4. Smash that f*cking phone. It's a tool of infidelity. 5. Talk to lawyer and get a plan. A plan gives you something to lean on when it really gets bad.

Sorry you're going through it. It's gonna get worse before it gets better.


----------



## tom67

seeking sanity said:


> Here's the deal: She doesn't "think" it's okay to spend time. There's nothing rationale about it. She "feels" good being around him, because he's new and therefore exciting and they are either IN an affair, or very close to it.
> 
> Your "feelings" mean absolutely nothing to her. You're just the parent at this point that is getting in the way of her good time.
> 
> Don't expect any support, rationale conversation or respect from her until you real exert yourself. And even then she will/may just go dark with him. You need to prepare yourself for the possibility (likelihood) they are having sex. And have been for some time.
> 
> If you want to deal with this problem: 1. Talk to the husbands wife and share your concern. 2. Tell her that you will divorce her if the disrespect continues. 3. Tell her you'll ready to kick her out. 4. Smash that f*cking phone. It's a tool of infidelity. 5. Talk to lawyer and get a plan. A plan gives you something to lean on when it really gets bad.
> 
> Sorry you're going through it. It's gonna get worse before it gets better.


Time to end this and take charge.:iagree:


----------



## wise

Don't let this woman push you around. And who is this guy? He has 0 respect for you and your family. You had boundaries set and she has completely destroyed them. I don't understand how casual the OM's wife is. They must have some skeletons in the closet; she is probably cheating on him and vice versa. This married couple you met possibly just killed your marriage. Get control now.


----------



## awake1

Have you just randomly snooped on her phone to see what's going on?

It doesn't sound good. In fact, it sounds like something is going on, or about to. Honestly though, it might have already. 

Trust your gut.


----------



## frusdil

This is not ok on any level. There's no way my husband would stand for this - not that I would do it anyway.

They are definitely having an emotional affair, don't know about physical but I'd be very suspicious.

Are you paying for her mobile phone? Cut the plan. Get a new credit card and shut the others down if you have them. It's bad enough that she's doing it but you should not have to be paying for her to sext other men, that's disgusting!

I don't suggest that someone ends a marriage lightly, but your wife has shown you in the past that you can't trust her. It doesn't appear that anything has changed.


----------



## ReformedHubby

I know you may be feeling that a lot of folks are talking tough because we are sitting behind keyboards. But I honestly can't think of any man that I know of (well maybe one) that would allow his wife to run off with some guy taking pictures at night until 1 am. Then she also pouts because she can't spend time with him by starting fights at random times per your post. This means that she has more feelings for him than she does for you. Are you okay with this? If not then do something about it.


----------



## Nucking Futs

seeking sanity said:


> Here's the deal: She doesn't "think" it's okay to spend time. There's nothing rationale about it. She "feels" good being around him, because he's new and therefore exciting and they are either IN an affair, or very close to it.
> 
> Your "feelings" mean absolutely nothing to her. You're just the parent at this point that is getting in the way of her good time.
> 
> Don't expect any support, rationale conversation or respect from her until you real exert yourself. And even then she will/may just go dark with him. You need to prepare yourself for the possibility (likelihood) they are having sex. And have been for some time.
> 
> If you want to deal with this problem: *1. Talk to the husbands wife and share your concern.* 2. Tell her that you will divorce her if the disrespect continues. 3. Tell her you'll ready to kick her out. 4. Smash that f*cking phone. It's a tool of infidelity. 5. Talk to lawyer and get a plan. A plan gives you something to lean on when it really gets bad.
> 
> Sorry you're going through it. It's gonna get worse before it gets better.


I have a feeling that the OMs wife is part of it. Either they're in an open marriage and she knows all about the affair and doesn't care or they're doing threesomes. I suspect anything told to her is going to go straight back to the WW.

ETA: Why don't you do some searching on the other couple and see if you find any adult site profiles or other info that might be helpful.


----------



## 6301

I'm waiting for my Wife to go and sneak out to take these pics so I can confront her and basically make her decide because I won't be allowing her to spend any more time with him at this point. QUOTE said:


> Why wait? Your only adding more misery to yourself by hiding in the bushes and confronting. Your best bet is to sit her a$$ down now and let her know that this ends now or your filing for a divorce. You think that waiting around is going to make a difference? All that does is just add one more log to the fire. Make sure that when you talk to her that she understands that your not fooling around and she's walking on thin ice. Don't back down one bit or you will come or of this far more worse than things are now.


----------



## angelpixie

From what he's posted, he has talked to the OM's wife at least somewhat, because he says she's even told the wife she should listen to her husband. No matter, it's the OP's wife who is not respecting him or their marriage.

If you do confront, L_Daddy, only do so after seeking some legal advice. She knows how to hide her texts, etc., and has no problem lying. Find out your rights, and take some actions regarding credit cards, phone plans, bank accounts, etc., before you tell her to make her choice. Play it cool while you are doing all of this. Don't pretend you're suddenly OK with it or that will make her suspicious, too. But don't threaten or even bring up divorce until you've had a chance to talk to a lawyer or two first. She's sneaky, and you've go to be just as sneaky.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Thanks So much to everyone who has given me support through this. I don't have any reason to believe that at this point anything sexual is going on...the emotional component is there right now but it's very small. I have to be honest about something though...because I have this lack of trust I am now constantly monitoring my wife's text messages and I do notice the "type" of texting that occurs between my wife and the other married couple differ from him and her. With the Wife she's girly girly kind of...talk about the kids and stuff...hanging out...but with him it's more personal. Words of encouragement are exchanged between them. It just seems different when you read it. It's always more obvious that she's texting a man and not a woman if you didn't know it when first reading them. 


With this guy she's seems to be seeking affirmation from him for things she wants to do that I won't let her do. She wants to start a photography business with him and has not talked to me first about it. She's actually thinking about doing something with him that will allow them to be alone for hours driving to locations...spending the whole day together even if they will be in separate places at the time and then staying out until 2-3 am. What happens when they are somewhere and it's too late to come back home and they stay at a hotel somewhere? then what? I get physically sick to my stomach when I think about it. She doesn't seem to text alot that much lately...makes me wonder why.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Oh and I have spoken with his Wife...when she was first gonna do dancing lessons and I told his Wife about it she told me that if she was at all interested in dancing with her husband then there would be no way anyone else would be dancing with him. That's how I feel in general about it all. The kind of thing and the kind of time she wants to spend with this guy makes me angry because if she really had any interest in the marriage she wouldn't be doing something that would be clearly making me this uncomfortable.


----------



## angelpixie

She may have figured out that you are reading her texts, so she might have gotten a prepaid phone for contacting him. I would not be too sure that it's only an emotional affair at this point, but that's still an affair. And you're right, she's clearly setting up times to be alone with him and overnight at that. 

She's already detaching from you by planning this business without you. But don't pay for her equipment!!! Take it from me, photography stuff is expensive. Cut her off before she lets you foot the bill, then leaves.


----------



## Entropy3000

Run.

But persoanlly I would make it so the dude could not do any dancing but that is just me. That solves little but there is no freaking way I would put up with that. Indeed the wife is the main issue but yhere is plenty of accountability to go around.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Hey...well as far as I can tell he hasn't even asked his wife if she would be ok working alongside my wife and he has told My Wife that his wife would not allow him to dance with her if I didn't agree with it. Given how this would determine his involvement with her he told her that if his wife allowed him to do it he would totally be "in". 

I can already tell you right now that if she ever asked me the question it wold be a flat out "NO" just because of the nature of the work and the fact that it would give her way more alone time with him then I would ever be comfortable with...besides we have three kids at home and I still work weekends at a a part time job and she wants to go running off to do weddings...hell no! Yeah you read it right....I'm "STILL" doing the part-time job....over 7 years now.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I view all of this as a strategic plan of attack...where the general amasses ammo for a full scale launch and then whammo! Drops the Bomb! After I confront my Wife and basically tell her that her time with this guy is over he's gonna get it next. A strongly worded text to back the &[email protected]* off and then most likely no more spending time over there at all. I would have no problem with his wife coming over to our house and I don't want the friendship between our kids to be done either...it's not their fault at all. Right now the main think is that I put my foot so far down that nothing can remove it and I don't plan on leaving my kids without fighting for them either.


----------



## angelpixie

Yeah, well, a little personal revelation here, L_Daddy. I am now divorced from a guy who started a wedding photography business, while on disability (i.e., not working) while I was working full-time and carrying the household. His last (of several) EA partner is now his photography partner, and they are engaged. She was living with someone while they were having their EA. While we were still married, when he was assuring me that everything was 'fine,' he was buying up equipment with the money from our home equity when we refi'd and also charging it up on our credit cards -- which was paid off with my small inheritance when my mom passed away. 

This is hitting a little close to home. Don't do what I did which was to trust my spouse. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck...


And WTH is it with cheaters starting businesses as wedding photographers? These are not the only cases I've heard of. Highly ironic, isn't it?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Holy @%&* Are you kidding me? Thank you so much for telling me that. It has changed my outlook greatly on this whole thing. I didn't even realize that was some sort of MO for this kind of thing


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Holy @%&* Are you kidding me? Thank you so much for telling me that. It has changed my outlook greatly on this whole thing. I didn't even realize that was some sort of MO for this kind of thing. It has made me think she's just attempting one thing on the surface but doing another below. I'm getting ever increasingly angry because she has done nothing but assure me that everything between the two of them is completely friendly and now I'm beginning to see it might not be.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

This Guy is "ON DISABILITY" he was concussed and has been off work since March which was when My Wife began spending time with these two.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I have a question...Just how much contact would two people need in order to constitute an EA? Does it have to be constant contact or can these things take months to develop? I keep an eye on her text messages and she sometimes goes two days without texting him and she still texts his wife. There doesn't appear to be any attempts made on a daily basis to contact this guy with the express intention of being intimate.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Thanks Decorum for the delightfully cryptic yet hilarious response. Have any actual useful information that doesn't make me want to puke and the visualization of My Wife's steady decline into a full blown sexual act with another man? If not then piss off!


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I'm not here for a lesson on grammar, punctuation or anything else. I only seek advice.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

It matters very little to me if these two are attempting to get close behind my back. I still intend on telling her that the friendship between the two of them is done. She can either accept that or I'm done.


----------



## Entropy3000

Lilly_daddy said:


> I have a question...Just how much contact would two people need in order to constitute an EA? Does it have to be constant contact or can these things take months to develop? I keep an eye on her text messages and she sometimes goes two days without texting him and she still texts his wife. There doesn't appear to be any attempts made on a daily basis to contact this guy with the express intention of being intimate.


EAs can happen very quickly. It comes down to intensity and the state of mind in those people to begin with. 

Also realize that EAs are emotional.

There are also Sexual affairs. These range from ONSs to just going for it after short periods.

Life is shades of gray so you can end up with a combination of the above.

Inappropriate Behavior --> Unfaithfulness --> Cheating.

Her contact with the guy was inappropriate. It became unfaithful at the least wehn she told you waht she was going to do without regaurd to your concerns. The fact the the first know affair was not dealy with makes the other affairs easier. Also these are just the ones you know about.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Thanks for clarifying that for me. Right now I have a firm grasp on my emotional state when it comes to keeping it cool. I have full intentions of following my gut instinct when it comes to these things. I also will do whatever it takes to safeguard my marriage from outsiders, at all costs.


----------



## Entropy3000

Lilly_daddy said:


> This Guy is "ON DISABILITY" he was concussed and has been off work since March which was when My Wife began spending time with these two.


Can he maintain an erection? Seriously. All the rest is just BS and drama and obfuscation. He wants in your wife's pants and is waiting for the go ahead. C0ckblock. Is this blunt enough for you. There really is nothing gray here. We cannot control people but we can control what we accept. If you do nothing to block this it is just another TAM hotwifing story.


----------



## angelpixie

The anti-depressants my ex was on for his disability did give him ED. Thank goodness for viagra! 

It isn't necessarily the amount of contact or how long they've known each other that defines an EA. Is she replacing you with him in things that spouses should share? Is she keeping things secret from you where he is concerned? You can tell a difference in the texts to him and the texts to his wife. If it was strictly a friendship, there should be no difference. 

The most important thing, L_Daddy is that SHE is not respecting YOU, no matter what goes on between them. If this was a situation where it was one-sided and he wasn't encouraging it at all, it would still be a matter of her being emotionally unfaithful to you. 

Obviously, neither of them are exercising the boundaries that they should be. This is a choice they are making. People don't just 'fall' into an affair. They don't choose to take the steps to stop it as it starts. You are seeing her make those choices. 

I hope you will call a lawyer tomorrow and start seeing what you can do as far as cutting off her money supply before you end up funding her business.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Point taken. As it stands right now things are calm between us. She still hasn't come directly to me and told me she wants to start a business with him. That is attributed to the fact that he has not yet asked his wife. Also his LTDI may run out forcing him back to work after x-mas. That would be a huge bonus as it would use up the free time he has now. I want him to fade into the night like a bad dream right now.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I totally get where you are coning from. I even told her that I didn't want to be one of those guys that gets "the talk". Where she sits you down and tells you " It just happened" I know that cutting off a diseased limb can sometimes save the body.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Right now there doesn't appear to be a replacing of any kind in that regard. My Wife still wants to spend time with me and she did tell me when she would see him at school and stuff and even asked every time she wanted to go somewhere with him so I never really encountered any hiding except for the text messages, she wanted her privacy in that regard but I was suspicious about that which is how I caught her sexting. After that the trust has been basically destroyed. I want to vomit every time I think about it.


----------



## center1

Opposite sex friends are not appropriate in a marriage, period. PERIOD!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nucking Futs

Believe it or not but Decorum is giving you at least one piece of very good advice: Have a moderator move this into the Coping with Infidelity section.

Now for my advice, nothing radical, you've already been told this. Go see a lawyer tomorrow, or better yet several. Find out what your rights are. Separate your finances and cut her off from any ability to buy thousands of dollars worth of photography equipment using marital assets.

This may seem like jumping the gun but it's not too soon to start the wheels turning. Just seeing you taking actual steps to end your marriage may be enough to snap her out of it.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Thank you all for the amazing advice. I am definitely going to talk with someone very soon about this. I actually don't have the money to even buy her a new dslr which is a relief to say the least. I just can't get it through her head that this behaviour is inappropriate on so many levels. She is determined to do what she wants so therefore I don't see much of an alternative. Any Mods want to move this for me to the appropriate section I'd appreciate it. Thanks.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Lilly_daddy said:


> Thank you all for the amazing advice. I am definitely going to talk with someone very soon about this. *I actually don't have the money to even buy her a new dslr* which is a relief to say the least. I just can't get it through her head that this behaviour is inappropriate on so many levels. She is determined to do what she wants so therefore I don't see much of an alternative. Any Mods want to move this for me to the appropriate section I'd appreciate it. Thanks.


This is why the devil invented credit cards. If you have them, cancel them or report them stolen. Put a fraud alert on your credit report to prevent her opening one in your name.


----------



## angelpixie

L_Daddy, you are right to distrust her. She proved that with the sexting. At this point, take everything she does and says as only half-truth at best. Not to put too much of my personal story in this, but as an example, my ex was very open about his opposite-sex friends, and used that very openness as 'proof' to me that nothing inappropriate was going on. Yet there was. He was hiding email and text with them. He told me he wasn't talking about us, but after I moved out, I had the family computer. I found cached email where he was doing exactly that. And not even accurately, either, no surprise, right? One time, I looked at his phone (he usually never let it out of his sight) and I saw texts between him and his EA at the time, who is now his fiancee. Lots of "I care about you" crap, too. I point blank asked him if he had any feelings for her, and he looked me right in the eye and said no. People can lie, L_Daddy, you've experienced that. You don't have a good gut feeling about this, and looking at your past threads, I can fully understand why. Listen to your gut. There are many, many of us who wish we had.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Yes I agree. Time to move this entire thread I think.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I am not about to become someone who didn't listen to gut instinct when it comes to this. Right now she's engaged in an exercise program at home and she told him she was doing it before me and they use eachother for motivation. It sometimes makes me wonder.


----------



## Entropy3000

Lilly_daddy said:


> I am not about to become someone who didn't listen to gut instinct when it comes to this. Right now she's engaged in an exercise program at home and she told him she was doing it before me and they use eachother for motivation. It sometimes makes me wonder.


They need to go NC dude. Period.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Sorry what's NC? I'm a noob when it comes to the abbreviations.


----------



## TBT

NC--No Contact

Some others-
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/forum-guidelines/464-common-message-board-abbreviations-acronyms.html


----------



## Entropy3000

These things just do not go away. NC is what is needed here.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I am inclined to agree totally with that.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

My Wife is currently trying to get me to spend more time with my best friend whom I've known for a very long time. She never care for when I was over there for extended periods of time. Now she's telling me I should spend more time over there. She thinks I haven't caught on.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

She appears to be creating a situation whereby she could potentially be out doing whatever she wants meanwhile I am about 45 minutes away with my buddy and she can call up the babysitter and then leave the house for who knows how long and do her night pics. She is going to be sadly mistaken when I don't take the bait.


----------



## Decorum

My bad, I apologize. It just seemed to me that the starting gun had gone off and you were still standing at the starting gate.

I can see you are in the race.

The language question was an honest one, I have found that at time when the persons native language is say Spanish that some things get lost. It was not a question of your intelligence but just wanting to know if there would be any barrier to communication.

I honestly felt like you were underestimating the situation.

I am glad you will be moving your thread.

I have deleted the posts that offended you, and I will simply wish you well.

Take care!


----------



## Lilly_daddy

No offense taken..honestly. Sometimes I ramble on because I have a very active mind and I get way ahead of myself. Please my reaction to your post was emotional and it was nothing personal.


----------



## Decorum

Thank you for the reply and your pm.

I appreciate your understanding.

I'm hoping for the best for you.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Because My Wife doesn't know that I am totally aware of her activities I have the upper hand on things. I can swing things my way. She doesn't yet know I am aware of the attempt at night pics. If she goes I will have what I need as leverage to have her contact with this guy gone as well as enforcing my position on this entire fiasco once and for all.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I have been overwhelmed with relief that this post has garnered such a response from everyone. It helps immensely when I know that my feelings about this are justified and that I can now see that others share my experience. It has made me realize that I can actually change things and take control. I have great people on my side to help me get through whatever I face. This really does have a way of becoming a defining moment. I know what needs to be done and I know that my children need me to do what is right for me and for them.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Gonna Sign Off for now. I shall endeavour to keep you all posted.


----------



## Decorum

LD,

I don't know the exact details of your plan, but If I could make a suggestion and you can see if it is a fit.

I don't want to cause undue concern (as before).

My thought is that it is possible that if this is at the EA stage, perhaps they may take it "to the next level" at the secret picture shoot.

It might be worth interrupting them. If they are hiding it you are busting them anyway, and there is no reason to wait. Can you give the impression that you will be away during that time and follow, track, whatever, them there and bust them, don't go alone if possible bring a witness and a voice activated recorder (VAR).

If you have good evidence and he lied to his "wife" maybe she could go along. (if the other woman is facilitating a 3 some as another poster warned about then tipping her off would be a bad idea)

Be very careful if you out them that you have a witness, in case the police are called.

Also any mans emotions can get the best of him, you have to think of your kids and custody so a physical confrontation with the other man is a big risk. I would not try it, just gather evidence and expose/confront them.

Your primary issue is with you wife, not him!

Other posters may offer a point of view here, so hopefully you will get a broader perspective.

Take care!


----------



## weightlifter

First have this moved to coping with infidelity because this looks like an emotional affair at least.

If you are interested in gathering intel here are complete step by step instructions.

If you wish to dig the most important part right now is play captain clueless. 

Steel yourself. There is a possibility the night pictures thing is a night fvck thing. Did you see the pics they took?

VARs and evidence

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You tell her, you always got your info from a PI or someone saw them. Hard confronts with overwhelming evidence to crush all resistance are the name of the game.

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or the aisle with the fasteners like screws.

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. 

ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

Usual warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR ELECTRONIC EVIDENCE. They were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!

If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" The dont use their main phone for cheating purposes.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex


----------



## Lilly_daddy

*Hey all*



weightlifter said:


> First have this moved to coping with infidelity because this looks like an emotional affair at least.
> 
> If you are interested in gathering intel here are complete step by step instructions.
> 
> If you wish to dig the most important part right now is play captain clueless.
> 
> Steel yourself. There is a possibility the night pictures thing is a night fvck thing. Did you see the pics they took?
> 
> VARs and evidence
> 
> Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar?
> 
> If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.
> 
> Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.
> 
> So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
> 
> NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You tell her, you always got your info from a PI or someone saw them. Hard confronts with overwhelming evidence to crush all resistance are the name of the game.
> 
> Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.
> 
> Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
> Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
> Set VOR "on" see page 38
> See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
> Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT
> Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.
> 
> Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
> This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
> also
> Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
> The velcro is usually in the fabric section or the aisle with the fasteners like screws.
> 
> Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
> attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat.
> 
> ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
> I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.
> 
> Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.
> 
> Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.
> 
> Usual warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.
> 
> If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR ELECTRONIC EVIDENCE. They were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!
> 
> If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.
> 
> The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with.
> 
> Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" The dont use their main phone for cheating purposes.
> 
> Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
> Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Hey all. Well today is a new day. Thanks for the advice on the evidence gathering..I'm definitely going to invest in the VAR. I think it should work well. Now as far as getting herself done up, staying out late and the other telltale signs...the only one has been the make up and inexpensive but new clothes. She doesn't stay out late unless she is hanging out over there. Other than that she is pretty much home bound until I get home from work. Today shouldn't be too eventful. I'm just keeping an eye on things and monitoring text messages.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

Lilly_daddy said:


> Hey all. Well today is a new day. Thanks for the advice on the evidence gathering..I'm definitely going to invest in the VAR. I think it should work well. Now as far as getting herself done up, staying out late and the other telltale signs...the only one has been the make up and inexpensive but new clothes. She doesn't stay out late unless she is hanging out over there. Other than that she is pretty much home bound until I get home from work. Today shouldn't be too eventful. I'm just keeping an eye on things and monitoring text messages.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Bottom line is you can't control her but you can control what you will put up with. Good luck.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Fortunately for me I asked to see her camera after she came back from taking pics and looked at when the pics were taken. Besides driving to the sites they had picked the photos were pretty much taken on time. Still not appropriate in my eyes. I told him that night to have her home by midnight and he told her...that's when she decided to come home later...kinda like a $%&# you for my troubles. ..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## badbane

Okay here is my two cents and I am going to be real. I am willing to bet that they have already had sex. Given the amount of time and the fact that she has zero respect for you. Making time for him is her number one priority. You already know how they are talking. At this point in time you need to start acting "normal" you need to pretend everything in hunky dory. in reality you need to be going through her phone, get a var in her car ASAP. Who knows what she is doing with this guy while you are at work. I would contact his wife and ask if she knew about the late night photo shoot. My friend you need to be prepared for the worst. You should have stopped this a long time ago. She has already had an Emotional Affair against you once. Now she found another. I would also ask to see those night shot photos. 

Again I am trying to prepare you here. this is likely a worst case scenarios since his wife hasn't been stepping up to keep her man in line and you didn't put the kabash on this. It has likely progressed to a full on PA. Weightlifter or I can help you with the VAR recordings if you think something might be on the tapes. There is a link in my signature to a pretty thorough evidence gathering thread. Post there or PM me if you need any assistance. The worst thing you can do right now is start trying to go off with what you have now. They will just deny deny deny and go further and further underground with their affair. So please take a breath. Steel your nerves because you have some tough decisions to make. Bur first you need more information. See if you can get this moved to the Coping with infidelity thread. We would love to help you there. What type of phone does she have?


----------



## angelpixie

L_Daddy -- in case you're not sure how to have it moved, you just have to PM a mod, and they can do it for you.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Ok Thanks I wasn't sure how to actually get it moved. Right now this is what I have, I viewed the night pics they took. There was a lot of them. My Wife had taken plenty of night pics. The thing is that I don't like the closeness that she has developed with him. I monitor her text messages every day and I have the car for work so she is basically homebound all the time. She texts both him and his wife and they talk about whatever. It's the friendly way she wants to make me think I can believe her while she attempts to plan these things behind my back. I am doing the calm thing and sometimes I get mad but she doesn't know the reason behind it. Right now I can't really say for sure if anything physical is going on. All I do know is that my loves attention. Even if she were to be gettign an escessive amount from me she would still crave more. I will PM a Mod to have this moved. Im just not sure all the signs are there yet for an EA.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I've Pm'd the Forum Admin to have this thread moved to the CWI section


----------



## weightlifter

LD get two of those VARS and remember SONY SONY SONY SONY if they dont have the 312 get the 333. a 50 dollar or 60 dollar sony.

The second one goes in whatever room she gabs to people on the phone in. You may wanna do a search for a burner phone.

DONT BE RDMU and buy cheapies and lose a week of work for your efforts.

NO I dont work for sony.

The Pen Var may be the useful to you.

FWIW let me lay odds for you. Most men are numerical creatures.

EA 85%
Pre PA IE kissing (60%)
PA Even money

Im not quite as sanquine as others but you need to get on your 007 game, find the depth of the rabbit hole and blow it THE FVCK UP!!

Remember follow my instructions EXPLICITLY. Im just hoping your wife is not #21 for me. Honestly I love nothing more than being proven wrong and its just inappropriate.

Generically where are you? IE NYC Metro, Dallas Metroplex, NC, CA etc.

Edit no: Still dont work for sony. I hate time lost. Believe it or not, most of us here want the best possible info in the least amount of time.

Oh and never ever forget my warning. DO NOT EVER listen to your wife having sex with another man! It will harm you in ways you can not begin to fathom. Have a trusted friend listen.

If necessary I do audio clean up for removing things like engine noise or boosting audio. I got whispers at 40 feet on the RDMU Vars. Also this is why I say Sony Sony Sony.


----------



## weightlifter

Oh and Im glad there were pics taken.

No time gaps?

Head to private forum and read RDMU thread 1 post 1 for what happens when you do a half azzed confront! A confront is a brutal PREPARED PRINTED script you use to break her. I did the base of the one RDMU used tho he modded the first part. Yes I know, speculation IF NECESSARY.

Read RDMU thread 2 post 1 for just what I have done for betrayed men here also the one released (of 4) vouches of my confidentiality and reliability. Its free. I just effing hate cheating. No I dont get off on listening to sex. Its boring as hell actually. (Type in Camaro , Hennessey, Texas Toll Road on Youtube for the sounds that make me go ooooh yeaaaa! This one best done with a big subwoofer) Understand tho while listening I was actually thinking... OK lets try NR then high pass then amp... hmmm maybe NR then EQ then amp... OK the time from event x to event y is 17 seconds, is that word screw or skew??? repeat...

Of course hopefully just red flag red flag red flag nothing!

I have taken dozens of PMs giving help. Im sure BB has done same.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

No Real major time gaps ecxepy for when they were driving to where they needed to take the pics. She even told me that was why there were some time gaps. For all I know there was something going on while the pics were being taken....doesn't mean they were actually driving anywhere though. They could have driven for ten minutes and said it took them twenty five.


----------



## tom67

weightlifter said:


> Oh and Im glad there were pics taken.
> 
> No time gaps?
> 
> Head to private forum and read RDMU thread 1 post 1 for what happens when you do a half azzed confront! A confront is a brutal PREPARED PRINTED script you use to break her. I did the base of the one RDMU used tho he modded the first part. Yes I know, speculation IF NECESSARY.
> 
> Read RDMU thread 2 post 1 for just what I have done for betrayed men here also the one released (of 4) vouches of my confidentiality and reliability. Its free. I just effing hate cheating. No I dont get off on listening to sex. Its boring as hell actually. (Type in Camaro , Hennessey, Texas Toll Road on Youtube for the sounds that make me go ooooh yeaaaa! This one best done with a big subwoofer) Understand tho while listening I was actually thinking... OK lets try NR then high pass then amp... hmmm maybe NR then EQ then amp... OK the time from event x to event y is 17 seconds, is that word screw or skew??? repeat...
> 
> Of course hopefully just red flag red flag red flag nothing!
> 
> I have taken dozens of PMs giving help. Im sure BB has done same.


Get a var asap you can also get a pen var for her purse.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Thats good to know...I've plenty of places to shop for a VAR and I'm getting one very soon. I can easily get the pen and place it in her purse. I've thought about trying to get a device in her purse but no guarantees she even takes it with her. Better to maybe put it in the car instead.


----------



## tom67

Lilly_daddy said:


> Thats good to know...I've plenty of places to shop for a VAR and I'm getting one very soon. I can easily get the pen and place it in her purse. I've thought about trying to get a device in her purse but no guarantees she even takes it with her. Better to maybe put it in the car instead.


Amazon.com: pen voice activated recorder


----------



## weightlifter

> I've thought about trying to get a device in her purse but no guarantees she even takes it with her. Better to maybe put it in the car instead. <

LOL not all women carry the 500 pound saddle bag my wife carries. I could use that thing for curls!

out for a bit. Got work to do. Thinking about buying a business.


----------



## tom67

Hey on the link I put you can buy both the pen var and the sony together. such a deal!


----------



## badbane

Are you sure you saw all of the night pictures? I doubt it unless it is a old school film and reel camera and you have the negatives. Even those you could adjust the date but it was a pain. if it is a digital camera he could adjust the times stamp on the camera at will it's as simple as changing the time in the camera before taking your next shot. Takes less than a minute. I'd be asking for the SD card right out of the camera.


----------



## Iver

Your wife is homebound during the day since you have the car? 

What prevents the OM from coming by your place during the day? 

Are your children in school during the day as well? Just wondering if there are timeframes your wife could take off to meet the OM...


----------



## badbane

My other question is this and just for clarity. Are these night pics of her. Or are they of landscapes, well known city landmarks, artistic stuff like a close up of an old sidewalk that conveys an picture to elicit an emotion. OR are these glamor shots of your wife?


----------



## angelpixie

badbane said:


> Are you sure you saw all of the night pictures? I doubt it unless it is a old school film and reel camera and you have the negatives. Even those you could adjust the date but it was a pain.* if it is a digital camera he could adjust the times stamp on the camera at will it's as simple as changing the time in the camera before taking your next shot. *Takes less than a minute. I'd be asking for the SD card right out of the camera.


I was going to mention this, but I was afraid I'd sound too paranoid, lol.


----------



## Tobyboy

From your op...you vaguely mentioned the other couples "open" relationship, what did you mean by this? Are they swingers?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Tobyboy said:


> From your op...you vaguely mentioned the other couples "open" relationship, what did you mean by this? Are they swingers?


No I do not believe they are swingers. ..and the pics are night shots of traffic and stuff
..no glamour shots...my wife doesn't like her pic being taken
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Lilly_daddy said:


> No I do not believe they are swingers. ..and the pics are night shots of traffic and stuff
> ..no glamour shots...my wife doesn't like her pic being taken
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Right now my wife is home bound and so is he..also his wife works night shift so she is home sleeping during the day. I have a toddler and an infant at home so there isn't any "visits" being made to the house during the day. He also has a son that he takes care of so there is no likelihood that this is happening.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

She's basically replaced you with her new bf. he's taking her dancing, going out on nighttime outings etc, while you keep the kids safe at home.

Wow! No good at ll in this.

Definitely use a pen var in her purse or camera bag. Make sure it's not found though.

Have you paid attention to the underwear she wears? Is she wearing the same pair when she undresses at night as she started with in the morning?

Also check for white stains etc when she comes home after being out on her dates with him.

Sorry, but this really screams full on affair especially given her history.


----------



## tom67

Lilly_daddy said:


> It matters very little to me if these two are attempting to get close behind my back. I still intend on telling her that the friendship between the two of them is done. She can either accept that or I'm done.


I hope you do this soon I think you have no choice right now. If she chooses him, she moves out you keep the kids.


----------



## LongWalk

Photography as a profession is very tough. Amateurs without time, money, drive, business acumen, have no chance of making a living
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ubercoolpanda

To answer your first post.. 

Are you sure she's not cheating? Because who the hell takes pics at 1am?!? It's dark outside!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Well there have not been any night pics since the first time I spoke up about it and she told me she wasn't going to be taking them. Now as for checking the undies..she wears the same ones sometimes but she works out during the day so she has a bath or shower while the kids nap during the day. She seems to have been texting his wife a little more than him nowadays. Seeking female conversation a little more than him. As for the Night pics, well My Wife is well adept at taking them and knows all the settings for her camera. As it stands now it doesn't look like the night pics will be happening this weekend. I will know however if she does go because she will have taken her tripod...can't take night pics without a tripod. Your shots will come out like crap but I'm still gonna call her on it though. I could just tell her she can't go out that evening.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

And No dancing of any kind will be going on between them. he has already told her that his wife will not let him go If I don't agree with it so at least she has a little integrity when it comes to rules.


----------



## harrybrown

Why don't you go dancing with the other man's wife and see how your wife likes that, or take pictures of the OM's wife?


----------



## Tobyboy

Have you check for other means of communication between them besides text? Facebook, emails, Skype? If your WW was caught sexting on her phone, she knows better on how to cover her tracks! Could she be using other devices to communicate?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Husband is not OK with hanging out with another male friend and wife is not ready to go NC.

Who is more important to her OM or you?

Stand up man, ask her to quit today itself if she needs a roof over her head.


----------



## workindad

I am in to photography as well. You can take some shots to show someone and still have time to fool around in a truck. 

Her interest in him makes no sense to me except for an affair. I think there is more to this than you know yet. Get vars in place. 

Do not assume that they do not visit while watching the kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tulsy

Lilly_daddy said:


> Right now my wife is home bound and so is he..also his wife works night shift so she is home sleeping during the day. I have a toddler and an infant at home so there isn't any "visits" being made to the house during the day. He also has a son that he takes care of so there is no likelihood that this is happening.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So his wife is in bed, he "takes the kid to the park", and visits you wife.

Dude, I can't believe you ever let it get this far....her going out at night alone with another man...a man that you are uncomfortable with.

I would bet that they are/have had sex. It's like she's dating him, and she gets a kick out of doing this behind you back...that just makes it more thrilling for her.

Get VARs ASAP. This relationship is completely inappropriate, and it won't take long for the VARs to capture that.


----------



## ironman

LillyDaddy,

Look man, you need to get your wife away from this guy if you want to save your marriage. There comes a time when you have to just stand up and be a man ... that includes standing up to your wife! Why is she dictating how much time she gets to spend with her boyfriend? It should be you who shut this down a long time ago.

You need to fight to protect your territory. The fact that you have done very little to nothing to protect your marriage is part of the reason she does not respect you ... and believe me, she does not respect you. Time for you to change that.

Additionally, I'd say there is a 50/50 chance she's already having sex with this guy. If she has, do you still want her back?


----------



## workindad

I'd put the odds that he is having sex with your wife higher than a coin toss. She is actively pursuing him What do you think he would do in that scenario.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

harrybrown said:


> Why don't you go dancing with the other man's wife and see how your wife likes that, or take pictures of the OM's wife?


Because he has to watch their kids.

She can't screw around if she has to worry about her husband showing up.

She's well on her way to having an affair(if one hasn't already started).


----------



## 6301

Lily daddy

Just an observation. I have a feeling that your going to do nothing about your wife's bad behavior. Here's the reason why.

So far there have been 93 posts on your thread as of this reading and you have posted 39 of them and they are all about the same in a way where you say "I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that" and so far your wife has been doing the same thing for lord only knows how many days or weeks that you have been here and you still haven't made a move to help yourself.

It's one thing to tell us that your going to put your foot down and end this game your wife is playing with your emotions and your head. It's another to actually do something about it. The time for this to end is now. If you keep this up, it will be too late and your the one that will be holding the bag.

You already said you caught her sexting with another guy and she promised it wouldn't happen again. Now we have the guy next door with the camera and your wife going out to shoot pictures of the stars and moon for how long now and your still talking and doing nothing. 

Basically it comes down to you sitting down with the wife and telling her that this $sh!t stops now! Tell her that we already went down this road before with some other guy she was sexting with and you have no intentions of going down the same road again and this night time photo shoot with the amateur camera buff neighbor comes to a screeching halt now or she can take her camera and hit the skids with him. Enough of the waiting and enough of the stalling. It's time you put your big boy pants on and stop being the built in, part time baby sitter and full time door mat and start taking charge of your home. 

I hope I haven't hurt your feelings and if I did then I apologize. It's just that you haven't moved off of square one and being that your wife has already gave you a low blow with the sexting, I would think that by now you would have learned your lesson. Stop tell us what your going to do and for Gods sake, tell her.


----------



## warlock07

Lilly_daddy said:


> Because My Wife doesn't know that I am totally aware of her activities I have the upper hand on things. I can swing things my way. She doesn't yet know I am aware of the attempt at night pics. If she goes I will have what I need as leverage to have her contact with this guy gone as well as enforcing my position on this entire fiasco once and for all.



Does her phone have a dataplan? What phone does she use?


----------



## angelpixie

Have you spoken to a lawyer yet about what you can do as far as cutting off all funds to her except necessities? What rights you have as far as custody, etc.? Because I don't see this ending in anything but a divorce eventually. If not because of what she's doing now, it will be some other guy in the future. She's done it before, she's doing it now, she'll do it again.


----------



## livinfree

She is systematically replacing you.

I even got the "go out with your friends" speech which later turned into "I wish you would find a girlfriend"


----------



## weightlifter

Uh give him some time to get things in line.

Hes been here two days. If he goes in guns blazing with what he has we get RDMU all over again. Soft confront = FAIL


----------



## angelpixie

FWIW, I don't think he should confront at all just yet. I think he needs to get his ducks in a row in the background, and start gathering hard evidence. From what he's written, he has done soft confrontations, in the form of "I don't want you doing this." Which she blatantly ignores. 

All of his work should be behind the scenes at this point, IMO.


----------



## seeking sanity

Even if there isn't infidelity, she's hanging out with a guy against your explicit request. She knows it bugs you, and it's just a generally sh*tty disrespectful thing to do. 

If you hung out with a woman your wife felt threatened by, would you blow her off, or respect her feelings and shut things down. It's not like you've had a history of controlling behavior and have alienated her from past friends. This is an isolated thing.

So, on that basis alone, I think you can make a stink.

Earlier you asked what constituted an EA: Shirley Glass used the windows and doors metaphor. If the spouse it opening more windows for someone else than her husband, it's going that way. Healthy marriages are open among spouses, and have boundaries (doors) for other people. It's too easy to become attached to another willing person otherwise. Marriage can't compete with "new" love if you judge it on feelings and excitement.


----------



## Thorburn

weightlifter said:


> Uh give him some time to get things in line.
> 
> Hes been here two days. If he goes in guns blazing with what he has we get RDMU all over again. Soft confront = FAIL


:iagree:


From his first posts this is not goint to turn out well.

Too much time spent with the OM at inappropriate times and her reaction is typical cheater speak.

OP, don't confront without evidence.

When you do get evidence watch how you expose it. I would start planning now how you plan to approach your wife.

I wish I had done so.


----------



## tom67

Thorburn said:


> :iagree:
> 
> 
> From his first posts this is not goint to turn out well.
> 
> Too much time spent with the OM at inappropriate times and her reaction is typical cheater speak.
> 
> OP, don't confront without evidence.
> 
> When you do get evidence watch how you expose it. I would start planning now how you plan to approach your wife.
> 
> I wish I had done so.


Also has the sex dwindled or is it still ok that can also be an indicator.


----------



## 6301

She already had a sexting fling with one guy. Now it's the midnight picture taking with another. That's two guys entering in this guys marriage because his wife permitted it and it's not only wrong, but shows a total lack of respect. That is the issue. All the evidence he needs is right there in front of him.

When another person enters a marriage, be it another man or woman, it a recipe for disaster unless the spouse that is on the receiving end of the disrespect doesn't step up to the plate and put a stop to it. You think that Lilly daddy's wife is going to stop? Why should she, when she knows that he's going to sit around and wait. She's already pushed the boundaries once and now she's doing it again and instead of turning his attention to her and stopping it, he's buying time for what? For it to get worse by her sleeping with the guy? Why wait for that when he can do something about it now before it gets there if it hasn't happened already.


----------



## Entropy3000

seeking sanity said:


> Even if there isn't infidelity, she's hanging out with a guy against your explicit request. She knows it bugs you, and it's just a generally sh*tty disrespectful thing to do.
> 
> If you hung out with a woman your wife felt threatened by, would you blow her off, or respect her feelings and shut things down. It's not like you've had a history of controlling behavior and have alienated her from past friends. This is an isolated thing.
> 
> So, on that basis alone, I think you can make a stink.
> 
> Earlier you asked what constituted an EA: Shirley Glass used the windows and doors metaphor. If the spouse it opening more windows for someone else than her husband, it's going that way. Healthy marriages are open among spouses, and have boundaries (doors) for other people. It's too easy to become attached to another willing person otherwise. Marriage can't compete with "new" love if you judge it on feelings and excitement.


By definition it is unfaithful whether there is penetration or not.


----------



## weightlifter

OP fwiw i have written several confront scripts. The more hard pieces and facts you can hit with the higher the probability you can break her. Once you fully break her you can decide the level of trickle truth you are willing to accept. Then decide D or R.


----------



## 6301

weightlifter said:


> OP fwiw i have written several confront scripts. The more hard pieces and facts you can hit with the higher the probability you can break her. Once you fully break her you can decide the level of trickle truth you are willing to accept. Then decide D or R.


 What is there to break? She is slowly getting involved with the OM and has already had an EM with the sexting. The truth is right in front of him and here it is.

Married women do not go out with other men. Even this picture taking in the night BS. Married women do don't send sexting messages to another guy. She's done both. How much more proof do you need to see this is unacceptable behavior. The problem is that Lilly daddy has to stop ***** footing around and let his voice be heard loud and clear. If it doesn't stop then he has his options but sitting and doing nothing while all this is going on under his nose is only going to get worse and by then it will be too late. I can't be any more clearer than that.


----------



## tom67

6301 said:


> What is there to break? She is slowly getting involved with the OM and has already had an EM with the sexting. The truth is right in front of him and here it is.
> 
> Married women do not go out with other men. Even this picture taking in the night BS. Married women do don't send sexting messages to another guy. She's done both. How much more proof do you need to see this is unacceptable behavior. The problem is that Lilly daddy has to stop ***** footing around and let his voice be heard loud and clear. If it doesn't stop then he has his options but sitting and doing nothing while all this is going on under his nose is only going to get worse and by then it will be too late. I can't be any more clearer than that.


:slap::banghead::banghead::iagree:


----------



## jnj express

Hey Lilly-Daddy------I am only gonna bring up one thing at this point

NC---means NC---WITH THAT WHOLE FAMILY---NC---with any of them for any reason---no--kid/kid contact---no more your wife talking to his wife, and obviously NC tween your wife and her possible lover

It has to be this way---for her to get him out of her mind

As to taking kids to school---you need to deal with that, as it can still bring on contact with him---NC---means and is NC for everyone in that family---WHETHER SHE LIKES IT OR NOT

That obviously ends all picture taking/business/dancing/anything else

You want to save this mge---NC--goes in place yesterday---with that whole family


----------



## ThePheonix

LD just a little friendly advice or my observation anyway. It comes from years being around men and women, hearing conversations, observing activity, and 8 years as an part time escort. When reasonably attractive men and women are together, 99% of the time (and I'm being conservative) one, the other or both are thinking about f--king.


----------



## Thorburn

6301 said:


> What is there to break? She is slowly getting involved with the OM and has already had an EM with the sexting. The truth is right in front of him and here it is.
> 
> Married women do not go out with other men. Even this picture taking in the night BS. Married women do don't send sexting messages to another guy. She's done both. How much more proof do you need to see this is unacceptable behavior. The problem is that Lilly daddy has to stop ***** footing around and let his voice be heard loud and clear. If it doesn't stop then he has his options but sitting and doing nothing while all this is going on under his nose is only going to get worse and by then it will be too late. I can't be any more clearer than that.


And this is the dilema. I will relate my story. Around June 2011 I found my wife was on FB. I was still living at home and had not moved for my promotion yet. I would come home check her computer and and hit the browser to go back. Her FB would reveal this guy's page. Seen it many times, yet he was not a friend on her FB. I felt it was strange. She had a very sexual EA that started the same way a year earlier. But I could find nothing. She had bought a burner phone and had a secret email account. They planned on having sex in August and set a date in September. 

Had I confronted her in July or August I would have had nothing, other then her checking out this guy's FB page. Her response would have been, oh he is a Phillies fan and an Eagle's fan. My wife became very interested in the Eagles. She never cared about football and then in August it was the Eagles this and the Eagles that. This is when I became very suspicious. Took me months to figure it all out and caught her.

The dilema is this. Confront now with very little evidence other then "hey you are spending this time with this dude is wrong" or wait till you get something more concrete. Had i done this in July or August 2011, I would have nothing. Sure I could have brought up what she did in 2010 but she would not talk about 2010. Even when I had proof of what she was doing she lied, lied and lied, and then slowly admitted to the hard evidence I had. In August 2011 she already had her mind made up that she was going to have sex with this guy. I had nothing other then her looking at his FB page. Two days prior to her having sex with the XOM for the first time, my son, took one of my pistols and threatened to blow his brains out. I took the gun from him and we committed him for over 30 days. Even that episode and my wife and I were there together when my son put the gun to his head and was pulling the trigger did not stop my wife from her plans to meet up with the XOM and have sex. They planned it in August, set a date and as my wife told me later, nothing was going to stop her from having fun and excitement in her life, not even the attempted threat of our son killing himself. 

No matter how you slice it the OP's wife is doing wrong. Perhaps the OP could prevent it from going PA if it has not gone that way yet. "PERHAPS". I go back and forth at what I should have done in July and August 2011. Knowing what I know now I doubt my wife would have stopped if confronted. My two IC's told me that she will get worse and one predicted that if she contacted someone local (like this guy) it would go PA. Which it did.

So confront and it goes underground or futher underground and she TT the OP, blameshifts, lies, etc. Or gather evidence and fmaybe find out the hard truth.

No matter the extent of her relationship she is wrong in doing what she is doing.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Yesterday day it happened!

I demanded My Wife spend no more alone time with this guy and I got what I wanted. I told her I was effectively "done" I also totally destroyed the entire friendship between My Wife and his Wife. They both have stopped being her friend. Unfortunately you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs however. This now means that they do not want our daughters being friends now too. My girl is only 5. I feel very bad about that because all I wanted was for the alone time to be done with and now it's "all done". Right now things are in crisis mode.


----------



## ThePheonix

I wouldn't need a hell of a lot of proof. If I tell my wife, which I've never had to do, to break off contact with some guy, she better damn well do it. When your old lady is use to telling you that she's going to see who she wants, your controlling and you put up with that crap, its too late. Your F-ing right I'm controlling when it comes to such matters. That ain't happening and me know about it. 
Ya'll can put up with as much as you like for the sake of avoiding confrontation, or you're afraid of pissing off your wife, but I ain't stand there with my finger in my azz while my wife diddles with another man. BTW, the same applies to me if I'm doing something that she questions.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Lilly_daddy said:


> *Yesterday day it happened!*
> 
> I demanded My Wife spend no more alone time with this guy and I got what I wanted. I told her I was effectively "done" I also totally destroyed the entire friendship between My Wife and his Wife. They both have stopped being her friend. Unfortunately you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs however. This now means that they do not want our daughters being friends now too. My girl is only 5. I feel very bad about that because all I wanted was for the alone time to be done with and now it's "all done". Right now things are in crisis mode.


It LOOKS like it happened.

It may not be over between your wife and the OM. It could just be a pause. Keep verifying that there is no contact. More so in the next few months. Then maybe less and less after that.

Don't under estimate the power of a chance(or intentional) meeting, or a call, or text in the future to say "hi", or "I was wondering how you were doing", that puts their relationship back in full swing.


----------



## tom67

Lilly_daddy said:


> Yesterday day it happened!
> 
> I demanded My Wife spend no more alone time with this guy and I got what I wanted. I told her I was effectively "done" I also totally destroyed the entire friendship between My Wife and his Wife. They both have stopped being her friend. Unfortunately you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs however. This now means that they do not want our daughters being friends now too. My girl is only 5. I feel very bad about that because all I wanted was for the alone time to be done with and now it's "all done". Right now things are in crisis mode.


It was something that had to be done to have any chance of keeping the family together.


----------



## Jibril

Lilly_daddy said:


> Yesterday day it happened!
> 
> I demanded My Wife spend no more alone time with this guy and I got what I wanted. I told her I was effectively "done" *I also totally destroyed the entire friendship between My Wife and his Wife.* They both have stopped being her friend. Unfortunately you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs however. This now means that they do not want our daughters being friends now too. My girl is only 5. I feel very bad about that because all I wanted was for the alone time to be done with and now it's "all done". Right now things are in crisis mode.


Hmm. Could you clarify a bit? How did you break the relationships up? What happened, exactly?


----------



## tom67

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> It LOOKS like it happened.
> 
> It may not be over between your wife and the OM. It could just be a pause. Keep verifying that there is no contact. More so in the next few months. Then maybe less and less after that.
> 
> Don't under estimate the power of a chance(or intentional) meeting, or a call, or text in the future that puts their relationship back in full swing.


For the near future I would keep a var in her car and in the house to make sure this is over.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

They (his wife) have effectively told her that she is to not talk to her husband anymore. They are the ones who broke total contact off as in no kid pick ups and no hanging out on weekends and not anything. My Wife is very upset right now. This does not seem to be a ruse of any sort but I get what everyone is telling me.


----------



## 6301

Thorburn said:


> And this is the dilema. I will relate my story. Around June 2011 I found my wife was on FB. I was still living at home and had not moved for my promotion yet. I would come home check her computer and and hit the browser to go back. Her FB would reveal this guy's page. Seen it many times, yet he was not a friend on her FB. I felt it was strange. She had a very sexual EA that started the same way a year earlier. But I could find nothing. She had bought a burner phone and had a secret email account. They planned on having sex in August and set a date in September.
> 
> Had I confronted her in July or August I would have had nothing, other then her checking out this guy's FB page. Her response would have been, oh he is a Phillies fan and an Eagle's fan. My wife became very interested in the Eagles. She never cared about football and then in August it was the Eagles this and the Eagles that. This is when I became very suspicious. Took me months to figure it all out and caught her.
> 
> The dilema is this. Confront now with very little evidence other then "hey you are spending this time with this dude is wrong" or wait till you get something more concrete. Had i done this in July or August 2011, I would have nothing. Sure I could have brought up what she did in 2010 but she would not talk about 2010. Even when I had proof of what she was doing she lied, lied and lied, and then slowly admitted to the hard evidence I had. In August 2011 she already had her mind made up that she was going to have sex with this guy. I had nothing other then her looking at his FB page. Two days prior to her having sex with the XOM for the first time, my son, took one of my pistols and threatened to blow his brains out. I took the gun from him and we committed him for over 30 days. Even that episode and my wife and I were there together when my son put the gun to his head and was pulling the trigger did not stop my wife from her plans to meet up with the XOM and have sex. They planned it in August, set a date and as my wife told me later, nothing was going to stop her from having fun and excitement in her life, not even the attempted threat of our son killing himself.
> 
> No matter how you slice it the OP's wife is doing wrong. Perhaps the OP could prevent it from going PA if it has not gone that way yet. "PERHAPS". I go back and forth at what I should have done in July and August 2011. Knowing what I know now I doubt my wife would have stopped if confronted. My two IC's told me that she will get worse and one predicted that if she contacted someone local (like this guy) it would go PA. Which it did.
> 
> So confront and it goes underground or futher underground and she TT the OP, blameshifts, lies, etc. Or gather evidence and fmaybe find out the hard truth.
> 
> No matter the extent of her relationship she is wrong in doing what she is doing.


 She had a very sexual EA the year before and you gave her another chance right? And then you find her texting another guy after you gave her that first chance. 

Right then and there was your mistake for putting up with it and waiting. When you caught her with the Phillies and Eagles fan after the sexual EA, you had a choice to either keep her around or shuffle her off to the street. You kept her around and got scorched for it. it's obvious that you told her that there would be no more texting other guys and no doubt she promised that she wouldn't. Then she does it again. You didn't need to dig for anymore evidence. One sexual EA and the making's of another. What more proof did you need that she was not a trustworthy person? To wait around to find a burner phone and a secret mail account? If you called a lawyer and ended it with the second EA, maybe you could have prevented all the other heartache you had to endure and I'm truly sorry that you had to go through what you did. You and your family didn't deserve it

Lilly daddy shouldn't have to tell his wife that this is wrong. She should know this herself and if this is the second time around like your situation was, it's plain and simple that his wife doesn't care and if that's the case then you get out of it. Hanging around and pleading only falls on deaf ears until he decides to show her he means business.


----------



## tom67

Lilly_daddy said:


> They (his wife) have effectively told her that she is to not talk to her husband anymore. They are the ones who broke total contact off as in no kid pick ups and no hanging out on weekends and not anything. My Wife is very upset right now. This does not seem to be a ruse of any sort but I get what everyone is telling me.


So the omw put an end to this seems she had enough of this bs.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

What I was told when they broke off contact was that they had enough of false accusations and the uncomfortable nature of everything. I didn't hide the fact that I was uncomfortable with it all from them.


----------



## jack.c

Lilly_daddy said:


> What I was told when they broke off contact was that they had enough of false accusations and the uncomfortable nature of everything. I didn't hide the fact that I was uncomfortable with it all from them.


so all this is only your fault? 

WOW!


----------



## tdwal

Did this other couple know that your wife had an sexting EA before?


----------



## tom67

Lilly_daddy said:


> What I was told when they broke off contact was that they had enough of false accusations and the uncomfortable nature of everything. I didn't hide the fact that I was uncomfortable with it all from them.


The fact that his wife doesn't find it as disturbing as you is a little strange. Of course though your wife has a history of little to no boundaries so you had to do something that's my 2 cents. I hope the ow knew of your wife's history.


----------



## whowouldhavethought

I predict this is not the end of the story by a mile.

WWHT


----------



## tom67

Your w needs ic to find out why she constantly seeks validation from other men just a thought.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

They Both know about the sexting session. They threatened to end the friendship then. I should have let them. right now as it stands I am the bad guy. Because I thought alone time together taking pics and dancing was innapropriate it immediately makes me wrong, controlling, posessive, jealous. Nice Eh!


----------



## LongWalk

You made the right move. Now you have to apply the 180 as long as she is sad about the loss of her EA partner. And who knows maybe it was PA.


----------



## Thorburn

Lilly_daddy said:


> They Both know about the sexting session. They threatened to end the friendship then. I should have let them. right now as it stands I am the bad guy. Because I thought alone time together taking pics and dancing was innapropriate it immediately makes me wrong, controlling, posessive, jealous. Nice Eh!


I got that as well from my wife. That I was controlling and abusive. All I wanted was for her to stop having A's, and stop lying. In the cheater's mind, if you check on them, it is controlling. Call them and ask what they are doing. Like my wife complained to her family and friends, look at how terrible my husband is, calling me and asking what I am doing. Heck, in the past this was never a problem with either of us. We would call and ask, what are you doing? No problem. Except when they are cheating, then the checking is controlling because they are cheating and lying about what they are doing.

Blameshifting big time. I want to f or be with whomever because I am selfish and how dare you interfer.


----------



## Iver

Lilly_daddy said:


> What I was told when they broke off contact was that they had enough of false accusations and the uncomfortable nature of everything. I didn't hide the fact that I was uncomfortable with it all from them.


And who did you hear this from? Your wife? 

If you haven't called the OMW you need to do so. Find out if what you were told is actually the case. 

My thought is the OMW may have found some inappropriate activities and put the kibosh on things.

If it is exactly like your were informed - then good riddance. "...the uncomfortable nature of everything..." is because your wife is veering into what appears to be a dating situation with another man. 

So, yeah, that kind of thing is uncomfortable if you are a normal man. 

Be clear on this. If your wife wants to hang out with another man let her know she's free to do so - right after you hand her the divorce papers.


----------



## tom67

Lilly_daddy said:


> They Both know about the sexting session. They threatened to end the friendship then. I should have let them. right now as it stands I am the bad guy. Because I thought alone time together taking pics and dancing was innapropriate it immediately makes me wrong, controlling, posessive, jealous. Nice Eh!


Screw it you did the right thing and looking back you should have stopped it earlier but you learned from this mistake.


----------



## Tobyboy

Did your W call the OM and wife after you demanded NC? What brought that response from the couple? Did you actually speak to the other couple or is this info coming from your wife?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Anyone else think the OMW has caught a sniff of smoke here and is using this as an opportunity to pull her husband away from OPs wife, while blaming the OP?

Could be she's had her own worries and questions.

Watch out for it gong underground , especially is the OM is only going along with it to make he wife happy.

Both of them have far too much free time without the OP and OMW around to observe.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

After it all happened I was told not to contact them anymore. Then I was told by My wife, amidst a great wash of tears that they were no longer friends with her. The husband didn't want to come near the house even if I wasn't there. My Wife then told me basically she didn't want her (OMW) talking to him anymore because it was too hard to deal with me.


----------



## Iver

Shaggy said:


> Anyone else think the OMW has caught a sniff of smoke here and is using this as an opportunity to pull her husband away from OPs wife, while blaming the OP?
> 
> Could be she's had her own worries and questions.
> 
> Watch out for it gong underground , especially is the OM is only going along with it to make he wife happy.
> 
> Both of them have far too much free time without the OP and OMW around to observe.


This.

You need to get the VAR going at minimum. I wouldn't be surprised if you find out they still keep in contact after all this.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

As it stands right now I have no choice but to make this decision stick. Even if it means our kids can't have play dates. Seems unfair but then again so is staying out til 1 am taking pics. Did you know the OMW actually didn't care if they pulled an all nighter taking pics. That would have been just great. Coming home at sunset after what effectively would have been a night together.


----------



## The Middleman

Lilly_daddy said:


> ...right now as it stands I am the bad guy. Because I thought alone time together taking pics and dancing was innapropriate it immediately makes me wrong, controlling, posessive, jealous. Nice Eh!


Do you really give a f*ck what they or anyone else thinks? If the facts and circumstances you laid out were true, then you are 100% right on this one. Your attitude should be to thank them for breaking off contact completely because that this is what you wanted from the beginning. I don't know about you but I wear "controlling, possessive and jealous" as a badge of honor!

Now as far as your "wife" goes, be firm. This (the breaking of the relationship) is what you require to stay married. Marriage is not for 3 or 4 people, only for 2. If she can't get that, then you are better off with out her. As far as the tears and bad feeling she has towards you right now; the longer she clings to it, the more emotionally invested she was with this ass hole. As others have said; she may have very well slept with him already. If you are staying together, you will need to keep an eye on the situation. 

You are right in what you did. You got the desired result. Keep your focus, don't back pedal and what ever you do, DON'T APOLOGIZE. You need to exude self confidence because you were in the right.

Edit: By the way, your kid will get over it. I'm sure much easier than your wife will.


----------



## jack.c

I think that now you need to be MR. BAD GUY. 
Make her understand that all this really made you sick and she needs to work hard on you... in the meanwhile 180!!!!


----------



## Decorum

Sorry I'm getting the threads I'm following mixed up, oh boy!

LD,

I don't want to be provocative here, but there may be a take away here.

In light of the previous cheating/texting, had you strongly objected from the get go would you be in a better place now?

i.e. not have looked so controlling not be the bad guy?

I will express an opinion as well.

In situations like this where there was previous infidelity, it is understood that if the WS is truly remorseful, then they will accept some limits on their contact with the opposite sex, and work on establishing proper boundaries.

In other words...
"In light of the fact that you (dear wife) brought a third person into our marriage by your previous cheating, I should have never been put into a position to feel uncomfortable and have to object to your growing exclusive relationship with another man.

I can only assume at this point that your disrespect and disregard for my feelings means you no longer value me or our marriage. 

It is clear to me that if I am unable to move past a certain point in befriending another man, for whatever reason, that you should understand that making that man a close opposite sex friend without me, strikes at the trust you were hoping to rebuild in our marriage.

We started with a benefit of the doubt trust in each other, you have removed any doubt by your own cheating.. Our trust will have to be dynamic now earned by considerate behavior, and defined by my level of trust for you not for your feeling of entitlement.

Think carefully what you do now, because if you let me be the bad guy when you damaged my trust for you by cheating on me, and pushing to be with this guy, and you don't own that now, then I will know that your respect for me is a façade that you will use to hide behind to get what you want at my expense."

Just some things to think about, maybe something in that will be will be helpful.

Take care!


----------



## Iver

Lilly_daddy said:


> As it stands right now I have no choice but to make this decision stick. Even if it means our kids can't have play dates. Seems unfair but then again so is staying out til 1 am taking pics. Did you know the OMW actually didn't care if they pulled an all nighter taking pics. That would have been just great. Coming home at sunset after what effectively would have been a night together.


Again, who did you hear this from?

I have a hard time believing after knowing about your wife's sexting episode the OMW would be OK with this. 

But the word "moron" exists for a reason I guess.


----------



## LostViking

Have you been to see a divorce attorney to learn your options? I would see an attorney. Don't let your immature childlike wife know what you are doing. 

Frankly I think you are accepting way too much disrespect from your wife and these people. You either need to stand up for your marriage or end it. Way too much prevarication and waffling on your part. Grab your sack and make a stand or walk away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I got this information right from My Wife. She told me that she (OMW) didn't care if they went out all night. I am not giving in anymore. This Sh** is done


----------



## Lilly_daddy

My Stand Has Been Made.




:allhail:


----------



## ThePheonix

Lilly_daddy said:


> . Did you know the OMW actually didn't care if they pulled an all nighter taking pics. That would have been just great. Coming home at sunset after what effectively would have been a night together.


Perhaps the boyfriend's wife wanted him out of the picture for awhile. Is it a pattern that this gal likes pawning him off on your old lady or elsewhere.


----------



## Tobyboy

So basically when you demanded NC, she turns around and contacts them both anyways? 

This is what I think is going on. The other couple are in a "open" relationship. They've been "grooming" your W for a while, the only problem is the "jealouse, controlling, suspicious" husband. 

Watch your wife very carefully. She's too addicted to this couple to go NC easily,


----------



## jack.c

LostViking said:


> Have you been to see a divorce attorney to learn your options? I would see an attorney. Don't let your immature childlike wife know what you are doing.
> 
> Frankly I think you are accepting way too much disrespect from your wife and these people. You either need to stand up for your marriage or end it. Way too much prevarication and waffling on your part. Grab your sack and make a stand or walk away.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

they are mindfuxxing him!! THAT IS VERY BAD!


----------



## Iver

Lilly_daddy said:


> I got this information right from My Wife. She told me that she (OMW) didn't care if they went out all night. I am not giving in anymore. This Sh** is done


You need to contact the OMs wife and see if this is true or if your wife has been lying to you.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

NC is what it's gotta be....then so be it.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

OMW wouldn't even acknowledge any contact from me. I was told not to contact either of them. As for MW, I will be keeping an eye on things very closely.


----------



## Iver

Well if it's NC then it's NC. I'd just be very leery of taking what your wife tells you at face value.


----------



## livinfree

Lilly_daddy said:


> OMW wouldn't even acknowledge any contact from me. * I was told* not to contact either of them. As for MW, I will be keeping an eye on things very closely.


WTF? Your were TOLD? 

Find your nads. You're wife should be the last person on earth giving you orders right now.


----------



## LostViking

Lilly_daddy said:


> OMW wouldn't even acknowledge any contact from me. I was told not to contact either of them. As for MW, I will be keeping an eye on things very closely.


Nah you are being way too weak. I'd expose the guy and his wife to his workplace, the neighborhood, everybody. Screw them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I was told by the OPW not to contact them, not My Wife.


----------



## Iver

LostViking said:


> Nah you are being way too weak. I'd expose the guy and his wife to his workplace, the neighborhood, everybody. Screw them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What is being said about the OM's wife seems to be second-hand from the wife. I don't know how much, if any of it, is true.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Neither do I. What I do know right now at this moment is that I'm standing my ground, I'm not backing down, not taking any sh** any more. My Family is too close to me to lose them over these two.


----------



## Iver

Lilly_daddy said:


> I was told by the OPW not to contact them, not My Wife.


Did she expand on that or was that it? The reason I'm asking is what your wife is telling you is very "iffy" It'd be nice to get some confirmation.

Now it could be 100% true and the other couple are a pair of weirdo's. 

Bottom line keep your eyes peeled.

P.S. Congrats on putting your foot down. I don't think it comes across in my emails but I think you really stepped up here.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

She didn't go into details but suffice it to say the reasons for the request were valid. Right now I've got my Wife where she should be. Staying at home taking care of the kids like she should be. They deserve her attention more than these two. The other couple have this belief that each other can simply conduct themselves this way and too bad what the rest of the normal population say about it.

I walk a lot at work each day. Putting my foot down is what I do.


----------



## Tobyboy

Lilly_daddy said:


> I was told by the OPW not to contact them, not My Wife.


So the OPW is the alpha in the "open" relationship!!!!


----------



## tom67

Lilly_daddy said:


> She didn't go into details but suffice it to say the reasons for the request were valid. Right now I've got my Wife where she should be. Staying at home taking care of the kids like she should be. They deserve her attention more than these two. The other couple have this belief that each other can simply conduct themselves this way and too bad what the rest of the normal population say about it.
> 
> I walk a lot at work each day. Putting my foot down is what I do.


Good they can find someone as weird as they are.


----------



## In The Dark

Good job LD. On a side note, just wanted to let you know that your kids will be fine and will soon find new friends to do things with. 

My wife had an EA with a neighbor and she also had a toxic friend that we parted ways with. Both of those families had kids that we would have play dates and sleep overs with. It was hard early on as our kids would ask about their kids at first but that subsided fairly quickly and we found new friends for them to do things with.

It helped that we moved away from that neighborhood but two years later, those names are never mentioned by our kids to do stuff with. 

Your main priority now should be your relationship with your wife. Having the other couple out of the way should help in getting the fog to lift some but it sounds like she is still shifting blame at this point.


----------



## weightlifter

Do the VAR for a week.

My spidey senses are tingling.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I will be...thanks:smthumbup:


----------



## ThePheonix

Lilly_daddy said:


> OMW wouldn't even acknowledge any contact from me. I was told not to contact either of them. As for MW, I will be keeping an eye on things very closely.


Damn Lilly, you need to lay do the "my way or the highway" rule. You need less talk about what you're going to do and more action. I think you've got the reputation as a paper tiger with more growl than bite. All that talk about the kids play dates, your obvious concern about what these people say and think makes you sound weak my man. Why do you give a rats azz what they think? Like my father in law, CSM (ret) of the 5th Special Forces would say, "soldier, you're not looking like an example of courage and leadership letting everybody and their cousin walk all over you and tell you what to do."
Additionally, the more you talk about this bunch, the stranger it sounds. (perhaps MWW or MWMW thing)


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Right now I don't give a sh** what anyone says about what I'm doing at all. I also don't much give a f*** about what they say about it either. All I do know is that NC is what it has to be.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

And a "My way or the highway" rule was read at the get go when she was told this is how it is or I walk!


----------



## Tobyboy

Lilly_daddy said:


> Right now I don't give a sh** what anyone says about what I'm doing at all. I also don't much give a f*** about what they say about it either. All I do know is that NC is what it has to be.


Good!!! What are the consequences for when your W breaks NC?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Consequences....consequences. I change the locks and serve her.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Another man might firebomb his house....who me?


----------



## 6301

Lilly_daddy said:


> Neither do I. What I do know right now at this moment is that I'm standing my ground, I'm not backing down, not taking any sh** any more. My Family is too close to me to lose them over these two.


 Thank you! I'm glad you finally stood your ground on this situation. If it means you have to wear the black hat and be the villain then so be it. Wear the hat proudly. I wouldn't worry about the people next door. Let both of them worry about their own problems. You have your own house to take care of. Just be sure that your wife knows that your not putting up with this crap any longer and I would let her know that with her past behavior, she's already got one foot on a banana peel and the other foot in the grave. Let her know that one more slip up and she going to be high stepping it out the door and there will be no more chances. 

If she tries to hurl the blame on you, then look her in the eye and tell her "Fine you want to blame me then go right ahead but if you F up one more time with any more of your BS and you'll be in for one hell of a life changing experience".


----------



## angelpixie

VARify, er, verify anything your wife tells you until you're sure you've got the whole story, L_D. Liars lie. They don't change.

Good for you for telling her how you expect things to be done! :smthumbup: There's no room for being wishy-washy in this situation. The whole dynamic of the other couple is pretty weird, but I wouldn't rule out both your W and the OM trying something on the side. OMW might be just as sure as you are that everything is over with. And she might be wrong.

After a marriage where my Ex had multiple EAs, I have totally changed my feelings and wish I'd done things differently. There are people who are more trouble and heartache than they are worth.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I have been told by her family that they don't in any way approve of what she has been doing either. They've said it's disrespectful, wrong, creepy, not appropriate and downright harmful to the marriage. They wouldn't want any part of her if she came knocking on their door. They've told me that. She doesn't talk to them about what's happening because she knows the opinion they have on it.


----------



## Thorburn

Lilly_daddy said:


> Another man might firebomb his house....who me?


Don't go there my friend. I contacted the OMW back in April or so after my wife finally confessed to everything. Dumb me gave her, his pastor, etc the wrong date and the OM was able to wiggle out of it, prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was at work. . So the OMW told me never to contact her again. I took that as a threat and did not want to risk legal stuff.

If she said don't then don't. You are doing the right thing.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I don't intend on doing that. Right now they can live their own life and forget Mine.


----------



## jnj express

NC is what MUST BE---FOREVER

It seems that most of your info, about the other family came from your wife---who had her own agenda---It is very possible other wife wanted no part of her H, out with your wife

One other thing, You need to take a look at that 4 hour night time session your wife had with the other man----it is very possible no matter what anyone says, including your wife---that something physical did occur----I am sure that it bothers you---for your own sub--conscious to be satisfied---you probably should find out if anything other than picture taking occurred----you might want to have her take a POLY----this of course if you do not want any doubt about what went on that night---cuz at this point we all know---YOUR WIFE LIES


----------



## InlandTXMM

Just caught up on this story - GREAT JOB standing your ground so far. This is a fight for your marriage.

My instincts, though, tell me that you aren't done with the story yet. There is much more to this than you know. 

Your wife tells you that the other couple want to break it off because of you - your "controlling" behavior, and so far you only have the OMW telling you they want no contact. That may be true but we all know, cheaters LIE. They lie until caught, then they lie some more.

My guess is either the other couple has an open marriage or they are into threesomes with women, and he has been grooming your wife to be a playmate. My instinct is, with all the missing time and flirty texts, the close physical contact without you to see what was going on, this has already happened. 

The other possibility is the OMW now sees what happened and is in full-on "defend the marriage" mode. She doesn't want drama from you, but she wants this to end, and is insisting on no contact from you both. 

What you haven't heard, though, is an explanation from the OM or your wife that satisfies your hunch that something is wrong. Listen to your gut - if it tells you something was going on, something in all likelihood, was.

Several of the posters are telling you to stay vigilant and even do some surveillance - I think that is extremely important. I don't think you have anywhere near the full story.


----------



## Chaparral

Lilly_daddy said:


> They (his wife) have effectively told her that she is to not talk to her husband anymore. They are the ones who broke total contact off as in no kid pick ups and no hanging out on weekends and not anything. My Wife is very upset right now. This does not seem to be a ruse of any sort but I get what everyone is telling me.


Really! What does his wife know that you don't know?


----------



## Chaparral

Lilly_daddy said:


> OMW wouldn't even acknowledge any contact from me. I was told not to contact either of them. As for MW, I will be keeping an eye on things very closely.


Told by who? Your wife? This makes little sense at all.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Right now it's been the semi-silent treatment. My Wife is visibly depressed and basically we are cordial to one another even though I know deep down how she is feeling. She told my daughter yesterday that her friend can no longer come to our house for play dates because I said she couldn't. So when My daughter asks me I feel like the major bad guy. I simply tell her "just because sweety" and you'll get to see her at school when you get there. Right now there seems to be no definitive way to guage the effects of this right now as far as long term. What I do know is even though things seem to be this way they have a way of going south awfully quick.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I was told "no contact" by the OMW. She told me not to text them.


----------



## Chaparral

Explain what actually went down. From your one line posts it is hard to tell. If they live that close this could all be a set up.


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> Explain what actually went down. From your one line posts it is hard to tell. If they live that close this could all be a set up.


Keep up with the var in her car and house jmo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Just like the dancing thing. She assumed you would not want to go. When you said you did she changed her tune . That whole thing was to get to be with him. She/they are not done with each other, just done with you.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Distance is a 5 minute car right pretty much from door to door. As it stands right now I have not tried to contact either of them because I don't want anymore of that involvement with them. As is stands right now I'm only concerned with My Wife making contact first rather than them. I will however be employing methods to make sure she is doing what she is suppose to be and that is making sure the kids are better taken care of than they have been for the last little while.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I've just removed/blocked FB contact


----------



## Chaparral

Keep reminding her that she was just playing you with the dance thing and going out on dates with him till one a.m. keep asking her what really happened. Do not le t her think you believe any thing she says. She cheats she lies.


----------



## TRy

Lilly_daddy said:


> She told my daughter yesterday that her friend can no longer come to our house for play dates because I said she couldn't. So when My daughter asks me I feel like the major bad guy. I simply tell her "just because sweety" and you'll get to see her at school when you get there.


 Your wife is lying to your daughter to make you look bad. You never said that the other little girl could not come over, and you should not be letting this lie stand. Tell your daughter the truth, that although you had a disagreement with the other couple and do not want to socialize with them anymore, that you never forbid the other little girl from coming over. Tell her that it was the other couple that forbid it.

The other couple is not married. The other couple wants your wife to go dancing alone with the other man (OM). The other couple thinks that it is OK for your wife and the OM to spend the night out alone together. The other couple have an open relationship and are upset that you will not give your wife over to it. What bothers me is that your wife wants in on this. 

She does not want to dance with you, only the OM. She does not want to spend the night taking pictures with you, only the OM. Your wife was actively looking for reasons to spend time alone with the OM. The goal of your wife was never the dancing or the picture taking, the goal was to spend time alone with the OM. In effect, your wife was looking to date the other man and is now upset that you will not let her. You need to address this with your wife, and call it what it is, dating. Dating does not have to include sex (especially in the beginning) to be called dating. Dating is when two people of the opposite sex spend time together in order to develop their relationship. That is what your wife and the OM were trying to do. You should not back down or even feel bad about saying no.


----------



## angelpixie

Amen, TRy. Very well said. 

She asked you about dancing expecting you to say No, giving her an excuse to go with OM instead. When you said Yes, it threw her a bit, and then suddenly, OMW said she'd only allow it if you would. You said No, suddenly you're the bad guy to everyone. OMW should be standing with you on this, both of you protecting your marriages, not her being OK if you're OK, then her throwing you under the bus when you say No.

And yes, don't take the blame with your little girl. If things do go all the way to divorce, you want to be on the best possible terms with your kids. You can see that your W has no sense of loyalty to you. She won't think twice of demonizing you to the kids. Don't even let that get started. Honesty is the best way to go anyway.


----------



## Decorum

Lilly_daddy said:


> She told my daughter yesterday that her friend can no longer come to our house for play dates because I said she couldn't. So when My daughter asks me I feel like the major bad guy. I simply tell her "just because sweety" and you'll get to see her at school when you get there.


This is not the truth it was OMW that made the cut, yes because you objected to your wife dating her husband.

Its your call, but personally I would tell my daughter that, Mommy was getting to close to Om and you objected so omw made the cut.

then when she says...

"But daddy what's wrong with people being friends, say I am your moms husbands she is suppose to be best friends with me, she was becoming best friends with him and that's not good for our marriage or our family. I love you and want us to have a strong marriage and a happy family."


I know Try and Ap addressed this but it really gets my goat.

Just something to think about.

Take care!


----------



## Decorum

Chaparral said:


> Keep reminding her that she was just playing you with the dance thing and going out on dates with him till one a.m. keep asking her what really happened. Do not le t her think you believe any thing she says. She cheats she lies.


Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like...Etc


----------



## The Middleman

Lilly_daddy said:


> She told my daughter yesterday that her friend can no longer come to our house for play dates because I said she couldn't. So when My daughter asks me I feel like the major bad guy. I simply tell her "just because sweety" and you'll get to see her at school when you get there.


Your daughter is probably way too young for this response but the correct answer would have been "Because Mommy is doing bad things with XXX's daddy and she is hurting me very much. We can't let them see each other." Unfortunately, that's not possible to do. However, children should learn at an early age the damage of infidelity, appropriately taught of course.


----------



## The Middleman

Decorum said:


> This is not the truth it was OMW that made the cut, yes because you objected to your wife dating her husband.
> 
> Its your call, but personally I would tell my daughter that, Mommy was getting to close to Om and you objected so omw made the cut.
> 
> then when she says...
> 
> "But daddy what's wrong with people being friends, say I am your moms husbands she is suppose to be best friends with me, she was becoming best friends with him and that's not good for our marriage or our family. I love you and want us to have a strong marriage and a happy family."
> 
> 
> I know Try and Ap addressed this but it really gets my goat.
> 
> Just something to think about.
> 
> Take care!


You beat me to it Decorum! :iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Decorum

The Middleman said:


> You beat me to it Decorum! :iagree::iagree::iagree:


That's pretty bad then or I had a head start, because I have only taught one finger to type,...Kidding


----------



## jnj express

tell your daughter the TRUTH, and stop shifting/sugar coating this mess

Tell your daughter---she cannot see the other kids, cuz that family is a problem and a threat to your mge

Tell her straight out---the other man, is causing problems for your mge, so there can be no contact----

YOU, YOURSELF DO NOT NEED TO ALSO LIE ABOUT THIS THING---TELL EVERYONE THE TRUTH---if your wife don't like it---TOO F'ing BAD---Your daughter will understand---if you tell her what is going on, and the problems it could end up causing


----------



## TRy

If your daughter is young, I would not talk about the inappropriate relationship between the other man and your wife. It is not necessary for her to understand the details of the why you have issues with the other man, for her to know that you were not the one forbidding the other couple's little girl from visiting her. As i said before "Tell your daughter the truth, that although you had a disagreement with the other couple and do not want to socialize with them anymore, that you never forbid the other little girl from coming over. Tell her that it was the other couple that forbid it." This would be telling her the truth without telling her details that she would not understand.

With that being said, should the other girl be allowed to play over, the other man cannot be the one dropping her off or picking her up, just like your wife cannot be the one dropping your little girl off and picking her up from the other couples home. There needs to be full no contact between your wife and the other man, without them using your daughter as an excuse to break no contact. Do not feel bad about you little girl not being able to have play overs. Protecting your marriage from infidelity is far more important not just to your life but to your daughter's life.


----------



## 6301

I wouldn't lay it all out for your daughter either. Remember that she goes to school with the other little girl and you can bet they both will talk and wonder what the hell is going on. The one thing you don't want is one daughter saying to the other, "Your mother caused this or your dad caused this and all that bull crap. Then you'll have the whole school and everybody talking about this and that would be a huge burden for both kids. They aren't the ones that started this mess. It was two adults that can't behave.


----------



## Decorum

TRy said:


> . As i said before "Tell your daughter the truth, that although you had a disagreement with the other couple and do not want to socialize with them anymore, that you never forbid the other little girl from coming over. Tell her that it was the other couple that forbid it." This would be telling her the truth without telling her details that she would not understand.


:iagree:

Yeah it's a bad idea to get into details, I doubt he is gonna really tell the kid about it, but Try's suggestion above is a good one.

Worth considering!


----------



## jnj express

I have to disagree with some of the other posters, about the kids---unfortunately they are a by-product of this wife's crappy choices

There cannot be any contact ---that includes the WHOLE family---actually switching schools is the answer to the problem

The other family is a cancer on your mge---and it must be CUT OUT

Better your kids suffer some switching of schools, then end up suffering split homes and a D

There is still contact as long as someone has to drive the kids to school, and the kids see each other, AT SCHOOL DURING THE DAY----This is the same as any/all of you telling the betrayed, that the cheater MUST quit their job, if the job place causes CONTACT---NO CONTACT IS NO CONTACT FOR EVERYONE


----------



## Chaparral

Wasn't she getting all dressed up to take the kids to school since the om would be there?

There is more trouble in the future. They are just trying to pressure op into folding.


----------



## Growapair

Congratulations for standing your ground and being assertive. Women find these qualities sexy in men. 

I do believe you're saving a lost cause. You have lost your wife long time ago through no fault of your own. She has cheated on you in the past (yes, sexting is cheating). She went out on a few dates with another male she liked (Yes, she REALY likes this guy). She has little respect for you and your marriage. She did this inspite of your feelings and objections. She even planned to start a business with him and sneak out of the house to be with him. Why do you want to stay with her?

You can do whatever you can to work on your marriage, but for how long? You think she will do a complete 180 and all of a sudden become a loving, caring, loyal wife with dignity. I doubt it. You either have these qualities or you dont. Your wife's actions tell me she doesn't have it.

Your wife WILL cheat on you again in the near future as soon as she gets the opportunity. I can almost guarentee it! Remember, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. I would get a divorce and not waste few more years before you realized you have been duped.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Your wife is a lost case, you can do anything to save this marriage but how much you can succeed in it is doubtful because your wife dont respect you, love you or care for you. May be she checked out a long time ago. I dont see a future for this marriage.

So, it docent mean you should stop trying to save your marriage but both of you need a good MC and IC for her. Trust but verify and dont act like a needy man or a weak man. Stand your ground.

Its time for you to analyze things and make sure that you can live with or without her.


----------



## Decorum

Chaparral said:


> Wasn't she getting all dressed up to take the kids to school since the om would be there?
> 
> There is more trouble in the future. They are just trying to pressure op into folding.


"Dressing up to meet him"
I missed that, that's disturbing.

"Pressure op into folding", then omw is involved some way.

Really none of this makes sense to me, it does seem like something is missing.


How will they ever move forward if she does not cut the crap and be true with herself and him.

No remorsefulness is a very bad sign.


----------



## angelpixie

Decorum said:


> No remorsefulness is a very bad sign.


:iagree: Her lack of remorse and real change after the sexting incident was ample indication that she would do this again. Of course, OP, hindsight is always 20/20, but now it's truly a case of "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Nobody would blame you for ending this now after what's happened, especially in light of the other threads you've had, outlining other problems in your M. But to think she's going to change her spots is pure fantasy.


----------



## workindad

If you do not have vars and key loggers already in place then do it pronto. 

This ain't over. 

Could be a clever trick? Are the other couple swingers or open marriage type? 

Your wife needs to grow up and stop trying to punish you with your daughter. Daddy's the bad guy. If she pulls that again tell her that you will explain it in detail to your daughter when she is old enough to understand
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

Lilly_daddy said:


> They Both know about the sexting session. They threatened to end the friendship then.


 I have been thinking about this quote, and I do not beleive that they really intended to end the relationship with your wife over this. Couples in open marriages know that most people do not agree with their lifestyle, and go out of their way to appear above reproach until they get to know the other people better. I beleive that knowing about your wife's prior cheating via sexting, actual let them know that your wife would be a more vulnerable target. I repeat what I said previously. "The other couple is not married. The other couple wants your wife to go dancing alone with the other man (OM). The other couple thinks that it is OK for your wife and the OM to spend the night out alone together. The other couple have an open relationship and are upset that you will not give your wife over to it. What bothers me is that your wife wants in on this."

You were right to stand up and say no. But now you need to discuss with your wife why she keeps saying yes to other men. First with the sexting, and now with her wanting to in effect date the other man (complete with dancing and excuses to spend the night with him). Even if it really is over between her and this new other man, the desire to cheat with other men is still there. She still is willing to lie to you and have secret relationships with other men. You many have stopped it this time, but she will get better at taking it underground and next time you may not even know.


----------



## TRy

angelpixie said:


> Her lack of remorse and real change after the sexting incident was ample indication that she would do this again.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Not only is she not remorseful, but she is actually angry that the OP will not go along with her wanting to go dancing with and spending the night with the other man.

Question: What is the difference between anger and remorse?
Answer: With remorse you have a chance at reconciliation.


----------



## Acabado

TRy said:


> I have been thinking about this quote, and I do not beleive that they really intended to end the relationship with your wife over this. Couples in open marriages know that most people do not agree with their lifestyle, and go out of their way to appear above reproach until they get to know the other people better. I beleive that knowing about your wife's prior cheating via sexting, actual let them know that your wife would be a more vulnerable target. I repeat what I said previously. "The other couple is not married. The other couple wants your wife to go dancing alone with the other man (OM). The other couple thinks that it is OK for your wife and the OM to spend the night out alone together. The other couple have an open relationship and are upset that you will not give your wife over to it. What bothers me is that your wife wants in on this."
> 
> You were right to stand up and say no. But now you need to discuss with your wife why she keeps saying yes to other men. First with the sexting, and now with her wanting to in effect date the other man (complete with dancing and excuses to spend the night with him). Even if it really is over between her and this new other man, the desire to cheat with other men is still there. She still is willing to lie to you and have secret relationships with other men. You many have stopped it this time, but she will get better at taking it underground and next time you may not even know.


Priceless post.
Please, sit your wife a follow through with what the second paragraph states so clearly.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Thanks to everyone who has given me the best advice on this situation. We spoke with our family doctor and my wife did some crafty lying..telling her that she met the ex BF by running into him. Didn't want to tell her she actively found him by getting his cell # from her old phone. I found that particular lie very entertaining. I also found out that she has hidden almost $300 from me in her undies drawer. It could just be emergency money but I don't think it is. Right now she talks about trust but she has been the one breaking it as she tells me I shouldn't. I am finding it all very disturbing. As for NC with the other couple..there has been no contact as far as I know. We even have someone else bringing my daughter to school in the mornings. I don't want to tell my daughter any details as to why her friend can't come over. All I said to her was "daddy never said she couldn't come over" but my Wife told her I did. I only said "you will see her at school every day" which seemed to be ok for her.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

We have now decided to find something we can both do together.


----------



## workindad

Lilly_daddy said:


> We have now decided to find something we can both do together.


Like MC or polygraphs? I hope it is not rug sweeping.

A common activity can certainly be a good thing, but do not overlook the elephant in the room.

Best of luck
WD


----------



## theroad

Lilly_daddy said:


> What I was told when they broke off contact was that they had enough of false accusations and the uncomfortable nature of everything. I didn't hide the fact that I was uncomfortable with it all from them.


Sounds as the AP's are taking their affair underground because you addressing issues with the OMW was bringing to much heat on the OM.

Now more then ever you need to hide a VAR in WW car and in the house were WW takes most calls. Then GPS WW car. Secretly install a key logger on her PC.

Then sit back. Do not fly off the handle and confront. It will only make them cover their tracks better. Come back here to plan the confront.


----------



## theroad

Lilly_daddy said:


> After it all happened I was told not to contact them anymore. Then I was told by My wife, amidst a great wash of tears that they were no longer friends with her. The husband didn't want to come near the house even if I wasn't there. My Wife then told me basically she didn't want her (OMW) talking to him anymore because it was too hard to deal with me.


Must contact the OMW to verify this.


----------



## angelpixie

What did you do with the $300? If she's not working, you should be able to put that into your joint account. It's probably money you earned, anyway.

These are very worrisome things, L_D. I kept cash on hand in case we needed it, but it was in a place we could both get to. This was not money set aside for the family, it was for her. What kind of emergency could she have that would require her to keep that much money without you knowing it? What is she saving up for? A hotel? A getaway? A divorce?

I get the feeling from what you write that you think you'll be able to fix things if you just spend more time together with her. It's going to take a lot more than that. You'd have to be with her every moment of every day, even when she's in the bathroom, to make sure she's not in any kind of contact with another guy. For the rest of your life. You've seen two more instances of her lying/hiding things -- about the ex-bf and the money. Proof that this episode with the neighbors has done absolutely nothing to change her.

I'm not sure where you're hoping this will go, L_D.


----------



## theroad

Lilly_daddy said:


> I got this information right from My Wife. She told me that she (OMW) didn't care if they went out all night. I am not giving in anymore. This Sh** is done


I know I am behind on this thread but how can you believe the baloney your WW if feeding you?


----------



## theroad

Lilly_daddy said:


> Thanks to everyone who has given me the best advice on this situation. We spoke with our family doctor and my wife did some crafty lying..telling her that she met the ex BF by running into him. Didn't want to tell her she actively found him by getting his cell # from her old phone. I found that particular lie very entertaining. I also found out that she has hidden almost $300 from me in her undies drawer. It could just be emergency money but I don't think it is. Right now she talks about trust but she has been the one breaking it as she tells me I shouldn't. I am finding it all very disturbing. As for NC with the other couple..there has been no contact as far as I know. We even have someone else bringing my daughter to school in the mornings. I don't want to tell my daughter any details as to why her friend can't come over. All I said to her was "daddy never said she couldn't come over" but my Wife told her I did. I only said "you will see her at school every day" which seemed to be ok for her.


You and your WW are lying to your daughter.

You tell your DD that when mom's/dad's get married they do not have BF/GF. Well mom was going out on dates with the OM, telling DD that OM is her friends dad. Doing that is having an affair. OMW decided that it is best for both families to not be friends anymore. This is why you can not go to see your friend any more.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Well this just keeps getting better. Tuesday we have a big fight and now she tells me she's going over there to "repair" things with the friendship. This was the day she was suppose to sneak out and take the night pics. I've decided I'm going to remain in the city and not go home for the evening. That way she is restricted to staying at home. I think I'm just done with this. I can't handle any more of this sh**.


----------



## NextTimeAround

TRy said:


> I have been thinking about this quote, and I do not beleive that they really intended to end the relationship with your wife over this.* Couples in open marriages know that most people do not agree with their lifestyle, and go out of their way to appear above reproach until they get to know the other people better. I beleive that knowing about your wife's prior cheating via sexting, actual let them know that your wife would be a more vulnerable target.* I repeat what I said previously. "The other couple is not married. The other couple wants your wife to go dancing alone with the other man (OM). The other couple thinks that it is OK for your wife and the OM to spend the night out alone together. The other couple have an open relationship and are upset that you will not give your wife over to it. What bothers me is that your wife wants in on this."
> 
> You were right to stand up and say no. But now you need to discuss with your wife why she keeps saying yes to other men. First with the sexting, and now with her wanting to in effect date the other man (complete with dancing and excuses to spend the night with him). Even if it really is over between her and this new other man, the desire to cheat with other men is still there. She still is willing to lie to you and have secret relationships with other men. You many have stopped it this time, but she will get better at taking it underground and next time you may not even know.


this makes me think of Body Heat with Kathleen Turner. she chose her target on the basis of his past experience as well....... and then p-ssy whipped him........

a film worth seeing.....


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I'm not sure what to do about this. I need some sort of guidance here. I either go home and basically tell her I am not letting her go or I don't go home and she's forced to stay home.


----------



## ceejay93

Or, you can quit ***king around and serve her. 

Is it better that your child come from a divorced household or grow up in a house with no consequences and learn the wrong things about marriage?

You know what you gotta do so do it!


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Yes I believe I know what has to be done.


----------



## illwill

Let. Her. Go.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Do you mean let her go out? Or let her go as in...well you know...dumpsterville


----------



## Madman1

So she makes a demand and you cave.

I have read your thread, you only do things half way because you are afraid of making her mad.

Half way measures half assed results.

You want NC you got it, and she is mad, you are afraid to enforce it and will probably let her break it.

She is craving HIS company let that sink in!

Yes go home and be a man, take the heat and stick to your guns, if she wants to break up over this she has done you a favor.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Lilly_daddy said:


> Do you mean let her go out? Or let her go as in...well you know...dumpsterville


I suggest not going home tonight until it's too late for her to meet the OM. AND make no mistake, she is going to meet the OM. His wife is just a side bar to all this.

When you get home tonight, if she still tries to leave, call the OMW right there and then. Tell her if your wife meets up with her husband, that you are DONE. It's D time and she can be the only one to worry about your stbxw and her husband having sex.

I know, a little dramatic, but I think this situation calls for it.

Good luck.


----------



## Madman1

How do you know she will not find some way to get there if you do not go home?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I have the car and she has the kids at home


----------



## TRy

Lilly_daddy said:


> Tuesday we have a big fight and now she tells me she's going over there to "repair" things with the friendship. This was the day she was suppose to sneak out and take the night pics.


 Picking a fight it the number one way that cheater use to resume contact with there affair partner. Up until now you may have questioned how deeply that she was involved with the other man (OM). That fact that he is so important to her, means that she is already in very deep. Since the other man's significant other cut off all contact with your family because she does not want to deal with your concerns, "repair" could only mean that she will tell them that your concerns no longer matter to her. To prove it she will go out and spend the night with him under the pretext of taking pictures. 



Lilly_daddy said:


> I've decided I'm going to remain in the city and not go home for the evening. That way she is restricted to staying at home. I think I'm just done with this.


 Do not run and hide. You either deal with it now or deal with it later. You cannot stay away forever, besides she can always take the children over to the other couples house to have the OM significant other watch the children when she goes out with the OM. She can also have the OM over when you are not home.

Go home and tell her that it is obvious that seeing the OM means to much to her for this to be innocent. Tell her that just like you were right when you caught her text cheating, you are now certain that you are right about the inappropriate relationship with the OM. Tell her that it is not all right to be dating this OM, and that if she ever see the OM again that you will be filing for divorce immediately. 

This is when exposure is most useful. Prior to going home, without telling your wife first, call your family and then her family and tell them is happening. Tell them about her past texting affair, the desire to go dancing with him but not with you, and about her wanting to spend the night alone with the other man, and ask them not to enable the affair by agreeing to watch the children. Then call your family friends and tell them the same thing. I can tell you that very few of them will think that it is OK for her to want to spend the night alone with the other man under such a phony reason as taking photos; especially in light of her past texting affair.


----------



## The Middleman

Lilly_daddy said:


> I'm not sure what to do about this. I need some sort of guidance here. I either go home and basically tell her I am not letting her go or I don't go home and she's forced to stay home.


What's wrong with going home and telling her that she can't leave?


----------



## catsa

Disable the car.


----------



## ironman

Go home. You can't avoid it, have to go home sometime. Don't give her the keys.

Also turn this into an ultimatum. Tell her you love her but you forbid her from contacting them ever again. If she does so, you will be getting divorced. Follow through.

If she is THAT hell-bent on seeing this man, that she is willing to get divorced ... then divorce is what you should be doing anyway.


----------



## illwill

Go home and tell your daughter... um your wife if she leaves the door locks behind her. The others are right you must deal with this sooner or later. Do it now.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

oops


----------



## Shaggy

Take the 300 and hire a baby sitter and you can join them on their date.

Or buy a var for her car?


----------



## angelpixie

Put the $300 towards the retainer for a divorce lawyer.


----------



## Voltaire2013

Personally, I would have told her I wasn't coming home as I was going to spend the night thinking about the future direction of our relationship, then waited several hours and come home without notice. I fear he would find his answer then and there. I don't trust these 'friends' at all.

Cheers,
Voltaire
(done lurking for 2 months)


----------



## theroad

TRy said:


> Picking a fight it the number one way that cheater use to resume contact with there affair partner. Up until now you may have questioned how deeply that she was involved with the other man (OM). That fact that he is so important to her, means that she is already in very deep. Since the other man's significant other cut off all contact with your family because she does not want to deal with your concerns, "repair" could only mean that she will tell them that your concerns no longer matter to her. To prove it she will go out and spend the night with him under the pretext of taking pictures.
> 
> Do not run and hide. You either deal with it now or deal with it later. You cannot stay away forever, besides she can always take the children over to the other couples house to have the OM significant other watch the children when she goes out with the OM. She can also have the OM over when you are not home.
> 
> Go home and tell her that it is obvious that seeing the OM means to much to her for this to be innocent. Tell her that just like you were right when you caught her text cheating, you are now certain that you are right about the inappropriate relationship with the OM. Tell her that it is not all right to be dating this OM, and that if she ever see the OM again that you will be filing for divorce immediately.
> 
> This is when exposure is most useful. Prior to going home, without telling your wife first, call your family and then her family and tell them is happening. Tell them about her past texting affair, the desire to go dancing with him but not with you, and about her wanting to spend the night alone with the other man, and ask them not to enable the affair by agreeing to watch the children. Then call your family friends and tell them the same thing. I can tell you that very few of them will think that it is OK for her to want to spend the night alone with the other man under such a phony reason as taking photos; especially in light of her past texting affair.


You can not buy advice this good.

Go home and tell WW this.


----------



## theroad

This OP is living in Egypt. He is in the land of denial.


----------



## 6301

L.D.

You final got the courage to put an end to this little midnight meeting crap with your wife and the OM. You now have to do the same thing again but this time, it's you and the wife and not the other couple. Your starting to let your guard down again and your wife knows it. She has to be told that you will not put up with any more of her dishonesty lies and deception and you have to let her know that in a way that it finally penetrates her thick skull. If not, this nonsense will rear it's ugly head for years to come unless you put it to her in a way that she understands it. 

Tell her that if she even thinks about going over there or tries to call him that she will be slapped with a divorce and no turning back. When you say it you also have to mean it. She know that she can push you to your limit and you'll give in.


----------



## Chaparral

Lilly_daddy said:


> Thanks to everyone who has given me the best advice on this situation. We spoke with our family doctor and my wife did some crafty lying..telling her that she met the ex BF by running into him. Didn't want to tell her she actively found him by getting his cell # from her old phone. I found that particular lie very entertaining. I also found out that she has hidden almost $300 from me in her undies drawer. It could just be emergency money but I don't think it is. Right now she talks about trust but she has been the one breaking it as she tells me I shouldn't. I am finding it all very disturbing. As for NC with the other couple..there has been no contact as far as I know. We even have someone else bringing my daughter to school in the mornings. I don't want to tell my daughter any details as to why her friend can't come over. All I said to her was "daddy never said she couldn't come over" but my Wife told her I did. I only said "you will see her at school every day" which seemed to be ok for her.


Why on earth would you let her get away with lying and by doing that, imply that you are lying. If you don't stand up for your marriage and yourself who will? By leting her lie you are doing more damage than she is. Man up. How the hell do you think you got here?

If you had earned and maintained respect, your "friend" would not be trying to poke your wife. You are just rugsweeping again. She just thinks you're a wimp.


----------



## Chaparral

Lilly_daddy said:


> Well this just keeps getting better. Tuesday we have a big fight and now she tells me she's going over there to "repair" things with the friendship. This was the day she was suppose to sneak out and take the night pics. I've decided I'm going to remain in the city and not go home for the evening. That way she is restricted to staying at home. I think I'm just done with this. I can't handle any more of this sh**.


That's Fine. Tell her while she's gone you will change the locks on the doors and she should stay there.

Man up these people are walking all over you and you just take it. You had nothing to do with them breaking contact. You Just sit back and watch the b!tch a bit.
Get a backbone.


----------



## workindad

I would go home and deal with it face to face. If you stay out, you can bank that OM will simply show up at your house for a "photo" session. Maybe they'll let you see the pictures...

Stick a fork in this one. It's done.

At this point if she wants to go. Pack her stuff in garbage bags and drop it off at OM's house. He and his wife can keep her. I'm sure they'll be a very happy dysfunctional family.

You do not deserve this crap. I hope you figure that out and set a proper example of how to live a life for your kids.

Do you want your children to grow up thinking it is normal for them to have to put up with the same crap that you are?


----------



## Madman1

Lilly_daddy said:


> I have the car and she has the kids at home



I know its just that I have seen people be very determined and creative to get together to cheat.


----------



## Chaparral

Madman1 said:


> I know its just that I have seen people be very determined and creative to get together to cheat.


These folks aren't creative at all, they just throw it in his face and he's "entertained".


----------



## Shaggy

So is she on a date with him tonight?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Ok so update time. Wife was told to stay home. She did. No pics..no contact and the $290 was for an insurance bill and is now in the bank. I win


----------



## Lilly_daddy

:allhail:


----------



## Lilly_daddy

My Wife and I are going to go to counseling. I think it's probably something we both need to do for each other and for our kids. I'm not sure I want to wake up one day and find that I can't see my kids every day. I don't quite think I could handle that. They mean so much to me.


----------



## ironman

Lilly_daddy said:


> My Wife and I are going to go to counseling. I think it's probably something we both need to do for each other and for our kids. *I'm not sure I want to wake up one day and find that I can't see my kids every day. I don't quite think I could handle that. * They mean so much to me.


LD,

I understand you love your children. But you must understand one thing ... it is not entirely up to you whether or not you'll be able to see them every day. 50% of that is is up to your wife. And if you don't man up, she's going to see that this nightmare scenario comes true for you.

Don't get into a mindset where you are desperately trying to cling to your wife and caving to her demands b/c of the children. She is in a selfish mindset and will use your "clingy-ness" against you. Count on it.

You need to be firm. You've done better recently. But you need to stick with it. It needs to become the "new you". It's counter-intuitive to some guys, but that is what you need to deal with a woman with your wife's mindset.

Stick to your guns and don't put up with any of her attempts to introduce a third wheel (OM) into your marriage. She needs to believe it's your way or the highway. No exceptions. She may not like it, but she'll respect you more for this.

Good luck and stay strong.

PS: Remember, even if YOU do everything right .. you still may not be able to salvage this marriage. 50% is on her.


----------



## Chaparral

Lilly_daddy said:


> Ok so update time. Wife was told to stay home. She did. No pics..no contact and the $290 was for an insurance bill and is now in the bank. I win


Told by you or the OMW?


----------



## Sbrown

So she pulled money out if the bank account to pay this bill? Seems odd.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## seeking sanity

This isn't over. You're now in a position where you have a foggy wife who's secretly fuming because you stopped her fun and are being controlling. The way you know it is REALLY over is when she starts to be remorseful. And don't put a lot of hope in counselling. It's kind of the default, lets-deal-with-this for troubled marriages and most counsellors are terrible. Really really terrible. You might fluke into a good one, but don't hold your breath. Expect a lot of stuff about how you weren't around, you failed in some way, blah blah... Basically it's your fault that she "felt" bad and chased someone else. Also expect the counsellor to largely avoid the topic of infidelity. 

Understand that her "feelings" are paramount to her. And there's a whole culture of female empowerment and go-girl b*llsh*t that is enabling her. 

Sorry to be negative. This only runs it's course when she wakes up to the realization that she is going to complete f*ck up her life and that you're the best horse to ride in this race.

Being nice won't do it. Sharing your feelings won't do it. Counselling probably won't do it. More chores around the house won't do it.

Calm and firm MAY do it. Draw hard boundaries and stick to them. That's all you can do. Don't be a ****. Don't be a controlling *sshole. Factual and direct, with a clear boundary.


----------



## seeking sanity

The good news is that this whole thing doesn't ultimately have a lot to do with you, specifically. Marriage is a marathon. There are good and bad years. 

When people cheat, or entertain cheating, it's because there is a hole they feel. A self-esteem hole. A grass-is-greener hole. Or whatever. It's rarely about their spouses failings, in the end.

That's why it's almost always some doucey, loser, f*ck who is the other man. Rarely is it a trade-up. He's just a mirror.


----------



## livinfree

seeking sanity said:


> And there's a whole culture of female empowerment and go-girl b*llsh*t that is enabling her.


There's a lot of truth in that. That culture is extremely toxic to the nuclear family.


----------



## angelpixie

So is the culture that says a man has a biological imperative to 'spread his seed' and it goes against his nature to be monogamous. It's not culture that is to blame. It's ultimately each person's individual choice. I was just as unhappy as my Ex was. I never entertained the thought of cheating, either physically or emotionally, because I believed it was wrong. He thought it was his right.


----------



## bandit.45

angelpixie said:


> So is the culture that says a man has a biological imperative to 'spread his seed' and it goes against his nature to be monogamous. It's not culture that is to blame. It's ultimately each person's individual choice. I was just as unhappy as my Ex was. I never entertained the thought of cheating, either physically or emotionally, because I believed it was wrong. He thought it was his right.


And then his chin dropped off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## angelpixie

bandit.45 said:


> And then his chin dropped off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I had to do a double-take on that one! :rofl:


----------



## Lilly_daddy

My Wife was asking me about play dates the other day. She was saying how some of the parents at our daughters school were chatting about getting some of the kids together for play dates and I was thinking about that...the way I see it if there's a family..meaning husband and wife and they want my daughter and my wife to come over for play dates that's fine. It's when she gets asked by a single parent, meaning a father that's going to get my back up on. I believe that My Wife has little sense of boundaries when it comes to friendships. I really have to ensure that the same error isn't committed by me again. 

I won't be getting myself roped into the same mess as before where I'm allowing these outings because play dates I'm sure play dates can develop into deep friendships as well and if that's the case then play dates will be held at our house when I am there. Seems like the boundaries need to be enforced from my end because clearly she has no sense of what is and isn't appropriate.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I also find myself becoming increasingly suspicious of everything My Wife does. Every time she leaves the house I'm checking the mileage on the car or I'm watching her as she backs out of the driveway and turns left or right. I wonder if she's going behind my back on things. I am so speculative about everything right now. She knows sometimes when we talk that it seems like I am trying to find holes in her stories when she tells me where she's going or if she says she's going somewhere I ask her for how long and she gets defensive. Can I ever feel comfortable about her having a male friend because right now My feelings on the topic are very strong. I do not under any circumstances feel it is appropriate for a married woman to have a male friend in the context that they are engaged in alone time together without their significant other present. I also feel it is inappropriate for a married woman to be engaged in any activity that would normally be reserved for her husband, such as dancing closely, engaged in personal time such as dinners, going to the movies together or any activities where they are becoming connected on any level. Such activities to me just make me cringe and cause my blood to boil that My Wife is thinking about "any" other man. Am I justified in feeling this way?


----------



## TDSC60

You are the same as me. My wife will not be allowed to date other men (and all those activities you mention are like a date) and still be married to me. That is my line in the sand. If she crosses it we will have a problem and she knows this (now).

So yes, you are justified in setting boundaries for your marriage.


----------



## Tobyboy

I don't blame you for being suspicious....you have every right to be considering how she has behaved. You should set boundaries! And consequences if said boundaries are crossed. Be precise, no gray areas!

Also, invest in a gps! Too early in your sitch for you to trust blindly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Lilly_daddy said:


> I also find myself becoming increasingly suspicious of everything My Wife does. Every time she leaves the house I'm checking the mileage on the car or I'm watching her as she backs out of the driveway and turns left or right. I wonder if she's going behind my back on things. I am so speculative about everything right now. She knows sometimes when we talk that it seems like I am trying to find holes in her stories when she tells me where she's going or if she says she's going somewhere I ask her for how long and she gets defensive. Can I ever feel comfortable about her having a male friend because right now My feelings on the topic are very strong. I do not under any circumstances feel it is appropriate for a married woman to have a male friend in the context that they are engaged in alone time together without their significant other present. I also feel it is inappropriate for a married woman to be engaged in any activity that would normally be reserved for her husband, such as dancing closely, engaged in personal time such as dinners, going to the movies together or any activities where they are becoming connected on any level. Such activities to me just make me cringe and cause my blood to boil that My Wife is thinking about "any" other man. Am I justified in feeling this way?


You are justified. Establish your boundaries and stick with them. If your silly wife wants to hang out with male friends without you, then you can feel free to call quits on the marriage. That's the boundary.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Why haven't you put a GPS on her car? You are going to give yourself an ulcer when you do not need to.


----------



## Chaparral

What have you heard from the last couple she was overly fond of?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

As of right now she has not gone on any play dates with any one. She merely said "Maybe". As for the other couple. Her friendship never really gets brought up. She is well aware of the fact that her friendship has ended. Right now we are in counselling and things are mellow somewhat. Right now I think I will insist on meeting whoever it is that she wishes to have play dates and then decide. Otherwise they will have to come over to our house when I am there.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Lilly_daddy said:


> . Right now I think I will insist on meeting whoever it is that she wishes to have play dates and then decide. Otherwise they will have to come over to our house when I am there.


This is how I was raised and how I operate with my children anyway. My parents met all of my friend's parents before I was ever allowed to go play with them. Sad that you have to do it because of your wife's indiscretion.


----------



## Decorum

Lilly_daddy said:


> Such activities to me just make me cringe and cause my blood to boil that My Wife is thinking about "any" other man. *Am I justified in feeling this way?*




You are asking the right question. My opinion?

Yes!


----------



## weightlifter

Chap is right. GPS the car. Its one of the easiest and lowest impact ways to verify.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

What I've gotten into the habit of doing is checking the mileage. I sometimes take a pic of it and save it to my phone. I don't bother with the trip meter because that can be reset. I sometimes reset it when I get out of the car because I can't see my wife doing that. Her and I got into a conversation about things and she basically asked me "so I can't be friends with any men then"? I basically told her if she was looking to hang out with other men either for playdates for my daughter or otherwise then "No"..there is to be none of that activity going on. Then I advised my Wife she seems to have no boundaries when it comes to these things. I've told her that if a family is asking for my daughter to come over for a play date then it's either to be both parents present and if it's just the dad then she can invite him over when I am there especially if he's a single father. Then we got into a conversation about eventually moving and how she didn't feel as though we should be moving far because she wanted us to stay in the general area just because my daughter has a friend and she wanted to stay in the neighborhood. I for one am not going to be keeping my family in the same house because it's only a semi-detached and it's not large enough for all of us. My Wife then advised we can simply renovate the basement to make more space. I can tell she's trying to keep us around but I'm not having any of that. We will be moving...and I don't really have the slightest feeling of remorse for it.


----------



## TDSC60

Lilly_daddy said:


> What I've gotten into the habit of doing is checking the mileage. I sometimes take a pic of it and save it to my phone. I don't bother with the trip meter because that can be reset. I sometimes reset it when I get out of the car because I can't see my wife doing that. Her and I got into a conversation about things and she basically asked me "so I can't be friends with any men then"? I basically told her if she was looking to hang out with other men either for playdates for my daughter or otherwise then "No"..there is to be none of that activity going on. Then I advised my Wife she seems to have no boundaries when it comes to these things. I've told her that if a family is asking for my daughter to come over for a play date then it's either to be both parents present and if it's just the dad then she can invite him over when I am there especially if he's a single father. Then we got into a conversation about eventually moving and how she didn't feel as though we should be moving far because she wanted us to stay in the general area just because my daughter has a friend and she wanted to stay in the neighborhood. I for one am not going to be keeping my family in the same house because it's only a semi-detached and it's not large enough for all of us. My Wife then advised we can simply renovate the basement to make more space. I can tell she's trying to keep us around but I'm not having any of that. We will be moving...and I don't really have the slightest feeling of remorse for it.


She still does not see anything wrong with going out on-on-one with men. That is a very large red flag for your marriage.

And she does not want to move far because you daughter has a friend in the neighborhood. Another red flag. Maybe your wife has a friend in the neighborhood. One within walking distance of your house.

Honestly, if she is not willing to quit "dating" guys, I don't see much hope for the marriage. It is just a matter of time until she crosses the PA line if she hasn't already done it.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Right now I have to lay down what I determine to be very sound boundaries when it pertains to these types of activities. I cannot and will not make the same error by allowing "any" of these types of activities to occur again. My Wife has been told that this will not be allowed.


----------



## bandit.45

Your wife doesn't want to move for a very selfish and secret reason. I think you need to do some deeper digging.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Right now My Wife is home so frequently to be honest she wouldn't even have time for anything. Right now she has neither the time nor the inclination because she currently believes I have her phone bugged and also I have my neighbors telling me whenever anyone is over at my house which hasn't been occurring at all since I made her end the friendship


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I have plans to dig further. Right now she seems to be secretive and I do not plan on remaining in the neighborhood we are in. She will have no choice.


----------



## livnlearn

What kind of marriage do you have when you are always feeling jealous and insecure...and yeah, you ARE justified in feeling this way. You are spending all your time and energy having to monitor her activities, forbid her from doing harmful things to your relationship, and are even considering leaving your neighborhood because she can't be trusted. For me, I would not need my spouse to have a physical affair to end the marriage. IMO you have no marriage that is worth saving. Your wife is selfish and doesn't care about your feelings. She proves this repeatedly. Marriage already over in my book. 

I'm sorry for your situation and wish you well.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Thanks for your words. Right now I am not actually consistently doing any monitoring that is obvious. My Wife is always telling me where she is. She seems scared every time I get mad at her. As it stands she seems very scared to divorce because she's seen how I am and I can easily make it very hard for her. She literally cannot do things in the house without me. She has little is no help at all and seems readily willing to comply with what I ask. I have been trying to convey to My Wife just how important our marriage is and that we both need to make sure there are boundaries that are being set and followed to ensure that this sort of thing doesn't occur again.


----------



## The Middleman

bandit.45 said:


> Your wife doesn't want to move for a very selfish and secret reason. I think you need to do some deeper digging.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I thought the exact same thing. She has a tie to someone.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

At one point I was thinking there was a tie to someone but now I'm pretty sure there isn't. My Wife could be hiding something but I'm just not sure. I don't have enough to really catch her doing anything wrong. At this point she is always either home with the kids, taking my daughter to school and back and other than that time out with the girls and that's pretty much it.


----------



## Tobyboy

Lilly_daddy said:


> At one point I was thinking there was a tie to someone but now I'm pretty sure there isn't. My Wife could be hiding something but I'm just not sure. I don't have enough to really catch her doing anything wrong. At this point she is always either home with the kids, taking my daughter to school and back and other than that time out with the girls and that's pretty much it.


Wasn't she sexting an old boyfriend a while back also? Your WW is not scared of you....... If anything, your WW is pretty smart at acting dumb! :scratchhead:


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Yeah I caught her...she was very remorseful. Tears and the whole nine yards. I even told her friends..the ones she was going out with. She got in s**t for it from them for it. She was so afraid she was going to lose them. She knows I will go in for the Kill if she does that again.


----------



## Remains

The last couple of posts have me a little concerned. If she wants out of the marriage, would you allow it? Without making her life hell? Surely you want a wife who loves you and stays because she wants to. Not because she is scared of leaving.

Anyway, I will write what I was going to before I got to the last few posts. 

The reason she isn't friends with that couple anymore is because of OMW isn't it? Nothing to do with you? And the only explanation you have is hers? Something went off there. And it was more than you have been told in my opinion. I am surprised you have not asked them. 

Your wife doesn't respect you.

Also, did you ever buy the VAR?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

If My Wife wanted out of the marriage I would most definitely let her. I will however protect myself from being persecuted by her and the legal system. I would not make her life hell if she would do the same but if she becomes vindictive then I will definitely do the same. I am not going to be a father that abandons his kids. I don't need to be married to my Wife to be a good father to my kids. I merely need to put them first.

As far as the other couple. The only thing I ever wanted my Wife to stop doing was having one on one time with Him. She has done that. Wanting to avoid a full blown battle on my hands and to avoid a divorce if I can help it is to simply allow to let things remain the way they are for now. I cannot remove my daughter from her school now..not at this stage of the year. She has friends there and she is making good progress. The other couple see my Wife at the school and there is little I can do about it. I have achieved a level of comfort in that My Wife will not do anything that she knows will result in me leaving her. She is currently not in the best of health and a divorce would cause her severe physical harm because she is incapable of handling it all on her own.

As for the present time. My Wife has not been texting anyone nor has she been calling anyone. The only time she sees anyone is at school when she brings my daughter there and back and we share that duty so really it's pretty rare. Right now things are pretty much in limbo. In my mind I'm not sure if either one of us needs to show some blind faith in the other or if we need to just cut ties because of the damage that has been caused. I am finding myself frustrated with my thoughts of anger and hurt as well as a little bit of hatred at the whole situation.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

How does one attempt to make it appear as thought they are extending the proverbial olive branch but under the surface still harboring suspicions about the other persons activity? My Wife knows that I was monitoring her text messages and when she found out she threatened to get her own phone under her own name. If I wanted to get her texts again I am forced to go to the wireless provider to do it and she will surely find out. I want to somehow allow her to believe I am giving her some room to breathe, because as we all know, once someone is back into their comfort zone that's what often makes them commit to a mistake.

Right now I have no reason to believe that she will attempt to go underground with the OM. I do however, have reason to believe she might actually attempt to start up some form of communication again just to "keep in touch" with him. Nothing at this point makes me think that My Wife has intentions of reconnecting with anyone online because I actually do have a key logger program on the computer. It's downloaded just not installed. I have been having issues with my rig lately and I\m afraid I will have to reinstall windows 7 on a ssd I have. It's never been impossible for me to track down visited sites since I just have it set up to either copy url's to an e-mail address or just password protect it. Once I have the computer up and running she will probably have a fit once she finds out I have deleted the facebook contacts.


----------



## Voltaire2013

I've read your thread but I forget, have you gone to or considered councilling? Had a good talk about boundaries? I believe in trust but verify but it sounds like she doesn't know what your boundaries are. Forgive me if you already have.

Cheers,
V


----------



## Lilly_daddy

At the moment yes we are in counseling. My Wife has asked me questions about boundaries and I have explained them. Right now I am hoping that hearing it from a third party and having expertise in the field that she might take this persons word as somewhat concrete. She recently asked me if there was a difference with the OM or if it was all men in general. I told her that there was no difference and that this applied to "Any Man". I told her that she's a married woman and there was no way that she would be permitted to spend "Any Time" alone and that it was completely inapropriate. She didn't really seem to flip out too much when I told her that. I told her that I had severe reservations about her actions with the OM and just never spoke up because I was made to feel bad had I said no. That made it even harder to get this activity to stop as there was way more backtracking to do.


----------



## Will_Kane

Lilly_daddy said:


> How does one attempt to make it appear as thought they are extending the proverbial olive branch.


What is the olive branch you are extending?

She had an inappropriate relationship, which she either realized, if not so much as admitted, was inappropriate, or she is just too afraid of you divorcing her given her health and he inability to handle things without you or afraid you will be able to demolish her in a divorce, so she is going along with what you want.

Apparently, she still does not share the same boundaries as you. Even after you caught her sexting an old boyfriend.

She wanted to enter a dance contest with another man, asked you to enter it with her hoping you would say "no," you said "yes," then she said she still wanted to enter it with him and not you.

She wanted to spend practically every free moment with this other man.

You never did find a single thing inappropriate other than the fact that the whole relationship was inappropriate, and even her family agreed that it was.

And here she is, still wanting to continue it anyway.

First the sexting ex-boyfriend, now the continued insistence on staying friends with this one particular guy, or in place of him, any guy (based on the questions she's been asking - is it just OM or am I not able to be friends with any guys).

Very strange in my opinion. Every woman I know, and I know and have known a lot of them, prefer a friendship with another woman to a guy. Likewise, every guy I've known has not wanted to be "just friends" with a woman. There is a difference in being friendly and being friends. Being friendly is saying hello when you run into each other and making small talk, being friends is meeting up for coffee or lunch and going out together and talking regularly on the phone or by text.

I'm not saying that a woman can't be friends with a guy, or want a guy as a friend, I'm sure some do and I just don't know them or know of them, but what I'm saying is that your wife seems focused on wanting a guy friend, and not a gal friend.

Any way, what exactly is the olive branch you are extending? It's basically your way or the highway, correct? I mostly agree with your position of no close opposite sex friends, but your wife does not, so what is the olive branch? An olive branch usually means you offer up something in order to make the peace. What are you offering?


----------



## Entropy3000

Lilly_daddy said:


> At the moment yes we are in counseling. My Wife has asked me questions about boundaries and I have explained them. Right now I am hoping that hearing it from a third party and having expertise in the field that she might take this persons word as somewhat concrete. She recently asked me if there was a difference with the OM or if it was all men in general. I told her that there was no difference and that this applied to "Any Man". I told her that she's a married woman and there was no way that she would be permitted to spend "Any Time" alone and that it was completely inapropriate. She didn't really seem to flip out too much when I told her that. I told her that I had severe reservations about her actions with the OM and just never spoke up because I was made to feel bad had I said no. That made it even harder to get this activity to stop as there was way more backtracking to do.


Do not let a 3rd party tell you what your boundaries are. Stick to them.

So often people want a 3rd party to fix things. They cannot. I am not aying tha counseling cannot help you. But they will not fight your battle for you.


----------



## MattMatt

I know some women who prefer male to female friends. Several valid reasons.

Most of the women they know want to talk about the soap operas, or want to talk about make-up or brag about their darling children.

Want to talk football, engines and the like? Usually only men are into those topics.

My wife once brought an elderly man to the point of tears, so impressed and thrilled he was on her knowledge of a particular aspect of vintage engineering.


----------



## Voltaire2013

Entropy3000 said:


> Do not let a 3rd party tell you what your boundaries are. Stick to them.
> 
> So often people want a 3rd party to fix things. They cannot.


I understand where he is coming from with the 3rd party validation. Often the SO makes it seem likes it's your problem. Having that non interested 3rd party adds more weight to your argument. Not to sound childish but you get to say 'See honey, it's not just me'. It can help. 

I do agree that HE must set the boundaries, but it's helps if the counselor says 'He's not crazy, he's not controlling, he has a valid concern'. 

Cheers,
V


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Voltaire2013 said:


> I understand where he is coming from with the 3rd party validation. Often the SO makes it seem likes it's your problem. Having that non interested 3rd party adds more weight to your argument. Not to sound childish but you get to say 'See honey, it's not just me'. It can help.
> V


Yes and the exact opposite has happened.
How many stories do we have of the Betrayed being labeled "controlling," they backed off and then they come back here talking about the ILYBINILWY speech.


----------



## Chaparral

I don't understand why you need to offer an olive branch. Explain your boundaries and stick to them. They're normal. If she can't handle boundaries, you will have to find someone who will.

Beware of counselors and find out their opinions before you go, many of hem are nuttier than fruitcakes.


----------



## Voltaire2013

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes and the exact opposite has happened.
> How many stories do we have of the Betrayed being labeled "controlling," they backed off and then they come back here talking about the ILYBINILWY speech.


Well you folk have more experience than me, in my small sample pool of one, my wife did not have the 'Aha' moment until she realized it was not just me being crazy when the 3rd party confirmed what I had worried about,and that I was normal to think that way. It worked on my end, I'm just offering another data point. 

Cheers,
V


----------



## Voltaire2013

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes and the exact opposite has happened.
> How many stories do we have of the Betrayed being labeled "controlling," they backed off and then they come back here talking about the ILYBINILWY speech.


I never said to back off, If anything I say attack with renewed vigor. 

Cheers,
V


----------



## Entropy3000

Voltaire2013 said:


> I understand where he is coming from with the 3rd party validation. Often the SO makes it seem likes it's your problem. Having that non interested 3rd party adds more weight to your argument. Not to sound childish but you get to say 'See honey, it's not just me'. It can help.
> 
> I do agree that HE must set the boundaries, but it's helps if the counselor says 'He's not crazy, he's not controlling, he has a valid concern'.
> 
> Cheers,
> V


Yes. I am saying this. Too often though people expect the 3rd party to say who is right or to help enforce boundaries and this is an unrealistic expectation.

I do get it. But he must stand his ground as if he compromises his fundamental boundaries he will be miserable. We have to be truthful to ourselves about what our real dealbreakers are. Compromising on our integirty never works out well.

Indeed the 3rd party may be of the mind that people can do what they want. There are some counselors that believe you should let affairs run their course. or that the marriage is not important but it is important for the individual to seek their freedom and so on. A 3rd party is not always a friend to the marriage. Some are activists that will say a woman has the right to have other men and that her husband should indulge this by opening up the marriage and letting her have her space. That if she loves him she will come back. Which is a load of crapola.


----------



## sandc

You manned up and confronted and well done. But you never found out how deep the rabbit hole went with the first couple. Was it physical or not? I know you don't think so. But most of us on TAM do think so. For a reason. These people were not friends that go way back with you two. There must have been/must be some sort of bond there.

LD, ask yourself... is this really the life you want to live? Constantly monitoring your wife? There are women out there that will want you and love you.


----------



## In The Dark

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

In The Dark said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This^^^


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Time for an update. This week I had a meltdown. I got very angry with my wife one day for pretty much no reason. I just had so much anger inside me and I felt Ok until I walked in the house and then we got into a heated conversation and I lost it. 

I then found myself at City Hall ready to file. I had one of those moments where I just felt like throwing it all away. I ended up not doing it and came back home. I can't help being angry sometimes and it's not always warranted but I find myself wanting to just escape.

I confronted my wife on things and shes been very good. She tells me where she's going and she has been trying very hard to be as good as she can be with things. I am finding myself still doubtful.


----------



## harrybrown

Was your wife happy that you did not file?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

She was. She asked me "please do not file, we haven't tried every thing yet". My Wife was afraid of losing the marriage and she seemed very willing to try and save it.

I have received some information about the friend she had. He has been in very poor health. I felt bad because I didn't really care that he was in bad health, only thinking that it would make him less of a threat to try and reconnect with her. I have told my Wife that when the time comes and our mortgage is up with the bank that we will be moving. She seems reluctant but has said that it's best for the kids because we are only in a semi-detached house and we really want a fully detached house to remain in. Plus I am not to keen on the surrounding area where we are currently living. This was only going to be a starter home anyway and we both knew that. 

Right now I am keeping my eyes peeled, my senses aware, my emotions at the forefront but most importantly thinking of my kids. I need to lead with my intelligence on this matter and keep my heart secondary as it will better ensure I keep my wits about me.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I was thinking about what the responses had been regarding the MC. He is a male Counselor and he seems to be a pretty easy going person. I feel as though he may lend some weight to my plight as he is first and foremost another male. In front of MW I explained to him that I had very strong feelings about what a Married Woman should and shouldn't do in terms of the type of friends she chooses to have, especially when they are other married men. I explained that it had very little to do with the individuals involved in the activity but more to do with the fact that there was any activity at all. I have tried in the past to get MW to read articles regarding the rules of opposite sex friendships which she refuses to do, telling me they do not apply to what she was doing. This made me think that either she has little respect for personal boundaries or just the person who has them or she simply thinks it doesn't apply to her at all. That was of little concern to me as I had thought she simply didn't think I was being rational. So far we have yet to go to our second session yet even though she wants to. I find myself inclined to keep the pressure on my wife as far as keeping her aware of my expectations even though she sees that as keeping tabs on her. She might still think I don't fully trust her which I don't despite what she continues to tell me. I am full-on in detective mode here because I am now forced to internally question everything. I am now contemplating whether or not to continue monitoring her phone or just leave it as is.


----------



## movin on

I trusted my wife completely. Guess what ? She cheated.
Keep the pressure on her to do the right thing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Thanks *movin on* I appreciate the advice. As for the trust issue, well right now I don't trust her. She might come across as wanting me to trust her but that could easily be a subterfuge. Keeping the pressure on, as in letting her know I want details about what she's doing and who she will be with is what I am currently doing. She seems a little upset when I ask her but I have no plans on letting up.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Right now I am struggling with whether or not to track her phone again. I feel that if she knows I can't do it anymore then she might slip up and do something she shouldn't be.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

The reason for wanting to have her phone tracked is because last time I was looking at the bill I saw a bunch of calls to her cell phone from a number that was not listed. They were incoming calls for an average of about 15 minutes and I got really suspicious that it was the OM trying to call her and she was talking with him. This time I will be playing the fool and not letting on that I am aware of any comings and goings.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Lilly_daddy said:


> The reason for wanting to have her phone tracked is because last time I was looking at the bill I saw a bunch of calls to her cell phone from a number that was not listed. They were incoming calls for an average of about 15 minutes and I got really suspicious that it was the OM trying to call her and she was talking with him. This time I will be playing the fool and not letting on that I am aware of any comings and goings.


Did you call that number to see who it is?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I can't call the number. It's not listed


----------



## Tobyboy

Have the phone calls stopped? When were the calls made to her phone? 
Major red flags!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Phone calls were in early September. There haven't been any more since then. I think it was because she suspected perhaps her phone was being monitored. Problem is she wants to get a phone in her own name with control over it. I can't track it that way. No remote programs for that.


----------



## Tobyboy

Have you searched for a burner phone yet? Does she go to a library or anywhere she might have access to a computer?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lilly_daddy

There is no burner phone. We don't have the extra money for that. She doesn't go to the library because I use the car for work. Right now she's home most of the time. She leaves to take my daughter to and from school and that's it.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Sorry dude, burner phones are CHEAP. No phone bill, records are only on the phone and it receives text just like a $700 smart phone. 

I'm not saying she has one, but don't think finances will stop a cheater.


----------



## sandc

Especially if OM pays for the phone.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

sandc said:


> Especially if OM pays for the phone.


That's EXACTLY where I was headed.


----------



## carmen ohio

Lilly_daddy said:


> *. . . She asked me "please do not file, we haven't tried every thing yet". My Wife was afraid of losing the marriage and she seemed very willing to try and save it . . .*





Lilly_daddy said:


> Phone calls were in early September. There haven't been any more since then. I think it was because she suspected perhaps her phone was being monitored. *Problem is she wants to get a phone in her own name with control over it. I can't track it that way. No remote programs for that.*


Dear Lilly_daddy,

I find your thread very confusing. On the one hand, you say your W wants to save her marriage. On the other, she seems to continue to push the boundaries that you have set for her.

Does this make any sense to you? It doesn't to me.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I cannot be certain that she isn't using a burner phone. Of course they are cheap I agree. Thing is that we have absolutely "zero" cash for anything right now and I have total control of the finances in terms of making the $ in the household. As for the OM...My Wife isn't allowed to even call him and HW doesn't want any part of what is going on right now so on that front she is pretty much NC with him. 

I cannopt help but notice everyday that my wife seems more and more depressed. She seems very down. Doesn't seem like there's much joy in life. She puts on a smile for the kids but she does seem very sullen. I attribute that to the change in her social status. She is now reduced to no more than taking my daughter to and from school and the occasional outing with a female friend.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

So you don't think that the OM could have sent your WS a bank check, etc., for her to buy and pay for use of a burner phone?...

It happens all the time.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Quite honestly no I don't think that's the case. It's odd to say but I think when she ended the contact with him it really hit my Wife hard. She began telling me where she was going all the time. We still were having a rough time and would fight weekly about things. She really wanted to prove things to me when I doubted her. Right now I am so full of untrusting thoughts everyday that it's a constant mental burden. Somethings start getting to be too much and I think sometimes I think things that aren't actually happening. I find myself becoming anxious a lot, very suspicious, very conniving at times. I want to know everything she's doing now and I wasn't like that before. I don't know if I just need to mellow out a bit but still keep my guard up or not. My Wife always tells me he was just a friend and I do know that HW is a very loyal person and would give him dirty looks just for staring at another woman the wrong way. I just find myself in this maelstrom of unresolved anger, fear, anxiety, sadness for my kids and jealous pent up rage!


----------



## workindad

I know money is tight. However vars are cheap and well worth the money. If you want to know more try one. 

She could be depressed because she misses the other man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## missthelove2013

Lilly_daddy said:


> Phone calls were in early September. There haven't been any more since then. I think it was because she suspected perhaps her phone was being monitored. *Problem is she wants to get a phone in her own name with control over it*. I can't track it that way. No remote programs for that.


BING BING BING...HELLO...DOES THIS NOT TELL YOU ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW???

She is like the veloca raptor in Jurassic PArk, slowly and methodically testing the electric fences for weakness, and then exploiting it...she is simply learning to be a better cheater...eventually she will take it so far underground that you wont be able to catch her...

I am very sorry you are going through this, but she is showing you her true colors...hell she all but slapping you in the head with it...


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Right now I have decided to secretly speak with a lawyer to find out what I am entitled to with regards to my rights as a father where I live. I am not going to go down willingly. I will learn all I have to about this process so that I do not become a casualty of war......:lol:


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I believe the velociraptor got what was coming to em' in that film


----------



## Lilly_daddy

A VAR is going to be the way to go. Most likely under the drivers seat. I have some strong velcro for that job.


----------



## movin on

I'd put one in the house as well. If she is home while you are working who knows who is coming around
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## InlandTXMM

@ Lilly I've followed along and my advice, after a kind of similar situation involving my wife away on a month-long work trip where I caught wind of a lot of texting, is you MUST remain vigilant. I'm so sorry but I think she and the OM were physically involved, and to the extent her depression is lingering and how she seems more interested in finding ways to covertly reestablish contact (rather than be totally repentant and disgusted by the OM), I think it was an EA also.

What I've found out, though, is this: not knowing for sure will haunt you forever. My situation is almost 18 months ago, and just last night I woke up from a dream where my wife's sister finally let me in on the fact that it was a PA. In my case, it all happened in a city far from home and she swears nothing happened though the circumstantial evidence points to the opposite. Yet I will never know for sure.

You HAVE TO find out the truth. It'll rot you from the inside if you don't.

Grown adults married to other people do not go out all night taking photographs. And even if there were some photos to prove it, how long does sex take? 

Grown adults married to other people do not risk their marriages and families for obscure platonic friendships with opposite-sex neighbors.

Grown adults married to other people don't go out dancing with each other.

Grown adults married to other people, if they are repentant and sincere, accept the logic of boundaries within monogamous relationships. They understand that even the appearance of impropriety is to be avoided. They know where there is smoke, there is fire.

They accept that they cannot have their cake and eat it, too. They don't try to find ways to remain in contact with someone who by everyone's account, is just a guy down the street with a similar interest.

The OM's wife knows what's up, BTW. But she's avoiding. She's thinking if she can prevent the blow-up that's coming, she can protect her family and hold it together. Maybe even convince herself it didn't actually happen. So she not only keeps your wife away, but she keeps you away from her husband, and therefore, the security she has in her family is intact because without evidence to confront, she can close her eyes and plug her ears and pretend nothing happened.

Your wife was cheating with this man, and is actively trying to continue. Please see that.


----------



## missthelove2013

Lilly_daddy said:


> I believe the velociraptor got what was coming to em' in that film


yes..one froze to death, and the other 2 got it T-Rex style


----------



## TRy

Lilly_daddy said:


> I cannopt help but notice everyday that my wife seems more and more depressed. She seems very down. Doesn't seem like there's much joy in life. She puts on a smile for the kids but she does seem very sullen. I attribute that to the change in her social status.


 She is not depressed due to a change in social status. She is depressed due to the other man (OM) being out of her life. She was in an emotinal affair (EA) with this other man. Late night photo shoots that she only wanted to go on with him. The thought of regularly going out at night with just him to be her dance partner. The OM made her feel special. He was fun and exciting. She was dating again and that made her feel young. He was a fantasy, and now that he is gone from her life, she no longer gets her dose of brain drugs brought on by interacting with her EA partner.

It is good that you have lowered that boom and made her go full NC. But all stick and no carrot is not the best approch. Start to get baby sitting on a weekly basis. and take your wife out. Have fun with her again. Look up a dance class and ask her in a nice way if she would take it with you. Do not get mad if she says no, just try something else. Try going to comedy clubs, karaoke bars, bars with live music, fun things, new things.


----------



## Thorburn

Lilly_daddy said:


> I cannot be certain that she isn't using a burner phone. Of course they are cheap I agree. Thing is that we have absolutely "zero" cash for anything right now and I have total control of the finances in terms of making the $ in the household. As for the OM...My Wife isn't allowed to even call him and HW doesn't want any part of what is going on right now so on that front she is pretty much NC with him.
> 
> I cannopt help but notice everyday that my wife seems more and more depressed. She seems very down. Doesn't seem like there's much joy in life. She puts on a smile for the kids but she does seem very sullen. I attribute that to the change in her social status. She is now reduced to no more than taking my daughter to and from school and the occasional outing with a female friend.


But she had several hundred dollars in her undies drawer. How did she get that money?

I don't want to make you any more paranoid then you are already (I have been there friend), but what is your wife really giving you? I am getting mix stuff from your posts and right now it is not looking good. 

I would be careful about pushing your wife into a corner, or a box. I understand where you are coming from my firend, but your wife needs to be willing to give you what you need and I am not seeing it. I am not seeing your wife giving you what you need. And right now all you are doing is cutting her off from the world. This is creating a bad scene.

I honestly see this as primarily your wife's causing it, but brother if you read the last pages of your thread your wife is spiraling down.

You and her need to have some fun together. Somehow the spark needs to be ignited in this M. 

You are in damage control. You feel damaged and you threaten D, start to file, etc.

Back off a little and please reread your posts. In the next session please let your wife speak more and you listen. I mean really listen. Don't interrup her. Let her feel free to speak, no matter what, even if it hurts. And try to take what she says for what it is and try to understand her perspective. you have not written anything as to what your wife said in MC. I have a feeling that you are pushing your wife away. I am not saying that you don't have valid points, but if they don't become part of her internal drive, to be open and transparent, you can pontificate all you want and it will not do a darn thing.

I don't want to bash you, but you are coming across as very domineering. I get the phone thing, that her having a phone on her own is not a good idea, based upon the past. I get the other things as well, the late night pics, etc. But if your wife is not willing to work with you in this, your M is doomed no matter what. 


Often times in a M there are power struggles. Typically power is never equal, e.g. 50/50, but in more healthy couples there is a healthy mix of shared power. If I control the finances, I have more power. If my wife had issues with this, there would be a power struggle. I would would examine the issue of power in your M. Does you wife feel free to talk to you about anything? Can you talk to your wife about anything?

Right now you have serious trust issues? What are your wife's issues? Are you hearing her in the midst of your anger and frustration?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Thorburn said:


> But she had several hundred dollars in her undies drawer. How did she get that money?


Yep. You found the money, did you ever get a satisfactory answer? Did you actually check it against your finances and record keeping? Did you look for any more money stashes?

Sorry, I agree with Try, this depression isn't about loss of social status. If it is, you need to have a serious discussion about getting her mind out of high school mode.


----------



## ironman

TRy said:


> She is not depressed due to a change in social status. *She is depressed due to the other man (OM) being out of her life*. She was in an emotinal affair (EA) with this other man. Late night photo shoots that she only wanted to go on with him. The thought of regularly going out at night with just him to be her dance partner. The OM made her feel special. He was fun and exciting. She was dating again and that made her feel young. He was a fantasy, and now that he is gone from her life, she no longer gets her dose of brain drugs brought on by interacting with her EA partner.


I agree with the above .. but I also find it disturbing. 

LD, you need to remain calm and cool. Don't let your emotions rule you ... you still don't know the truth. Based on the "overtures" your wife has been making, I'd suggest giving her enough rope to hang herself with.

I'm just not seeing her as repentant and remorseful based on your descriptions of her recent actions. It's more like she's grieving and yearning for her affair partner. If that is indeed the case, then you can still bust her and put and end to this once and for all.

If she is walking around moping all day long and asking for her own phone, etc, etc ... setup the vars, spy on her and catch her. If this is her M.O. .. you don't have much of a marriage anyway. Just make sure to keep your emotions in check and don't let on that you are mad or checking up on her. Plenty of time for that after you bust her red-handed.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

My wife had an EA a year ago. I dug, yelled, screamed started doing what was suggested on the website and a year later......meh.

Thing is when it ended afaik, it ended. No emails, no phone calls at home, no texts and all time is accounted for when I was still checking regularly. She ended it with him even though, at the time, she didn't understand the relationship was wrong. She actually said he was "just a friend" and "I did nothing wrong, we just texted." She couldn't make it through "Not Just friends" because she saw how bad it was and where it could have led. 

Why am I bringing this up? Your wife took a left turn from where mine was at. She fought you about visiting, hid money, kept up contact, met him herself against your wishes and had to be cowed into dropping the guy. Now you notice a depression, which means they were extremely close even if they were "just friends."

I'm not saying my wife wasn't depressed, but she made sure I never saw her moping. Sorry, her current actions are disrespectful to you and your marriage.


----------



## weightlifter

Lilly_daddy said:


> A VAR is going to be the way to go. Most likely under the drivers seat. I have some strong velcro for that job.


Kung Fu voice 
You have learned well grasshopper...


----------



## Chaparral

On top of her losing the excitement of her good friend, the way you describe her life now, does seem depressing. Are you taking her out. Is the family doing things? What is keeping her occupied, you said cash was very limited.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Right Now what I feel is getting her down is the fact that her own family has deemed her actions with the OM as wrong and disrespectful. Therefore she has cut her Mother out of her life a the moment. She is down about not being able to spend holidays with these friends and not able to visit family when she wants now because her Mother doesn't share her views on why she should have been allowed to remain friends with the OM. 

As far as my emotions go..yeah I f***ed up a bit because I didn't execute the 180 maneuver I believe it's referred to. When the friendship ended I remained very skeptical and upset at a lot of things because I still had no trust from from the sexting with the Ex-BF. So now I find myself just so pissed off at everything. I find that I am flying off the handle easier. Right now every little negative thing she says has me getting angry at her. Today has been good and the last couple of days has been calm. I guess once the calm days progress into calm weeks then maybe I will be able to alter my approach and show her that things can be better with just her and I. As it stands this whole thing has not begun to fully calm down yet.

As for trust issues..well MW has always thought I was engaged in some sort of EA or PA before to which she had zero proof. I was not meeting up with anyone, texting anyone, chatting online or any of that. I simply put family responsibilities first. I have three major actions in my day...eat..work and sleep. Most days I would go more than 24 hours with no sleep in order o to let her sleep or so I could spend time with the kids. I still have my two jobs. Our babysitter is on call and I plan on taking her to a movie this weekend...as a surprise..or perhaps a comedy club. Dancing would still be a stretch, as she would still not go with me due to her belief that the only reason I was interested was because someone else was, even though she had asked me prior to everything happening. 

I am trying to get back to basics in my life. I want to do more with my Family. I want to reconnect and show MW that happiness can be found within our lives together and that external sources of happiness need not be required.

As far as her depressed state goes..well it's been on and off. She comes out of it when her and I laugh together, so I think that the depression stems from lack of happiness at home and not the void that is created by the lack of friendship outside. Also She mentioned wanting to take the family out somewhere..deciding where to go and then saving up for it. I think that is a good step in creating a family dynamic again and getting back to what we enjoy. I will still plant VAR's but only as a precaution. I can never be too sure what she is thinking and need to continue to be vigilant under the surface.


----------



## InlandTXMM

If she's willing to cut her own mother out of the picture, and by that, restrict her children from seeing their grandmother, over some guy down the street, then, my friend, your wife was in WAY deeper than she ever let on.

This was physical and emotional for a long time.


----------



## The Middleman

InlandTXMM said:


> If she's willing to cut her own mother out of the picture, and by that, restrict her children from seeing their grandmother, over some guy down the street, then, my friend, your wife was in WAY deeper than she ever let on.
> 
> This was physical and emotional for a long time.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Thorburn

InlandTXMM said:


> If she's willing to cut her own mother out of the picture, and by that, restrict her children from seeing their grandmother, over some guy down the street, then, my friend, your wife was in WAY deeper than she ever let on.
> 
> This was physical and emotional for a long time.


:iagree: And this is what I have suspected all along. In your posts, there are things that just do not add up in the way she has responded or did not respond. There is false R or something very similar to it when a spouse does not give you what you need. They are still involved, or hiding stuff. Your wife has not come clean. Your gut is telling you this.

I reacted very similar to you. Anger, yelling, etc. None of it worked in my case. My wife continued her A and things just did not make sense to me. She fought back with saying she will not be controlled by me, etc. It is almost laughable. I was living hours away for part of her A time. Not around for most of the week and she is out having sex and telling me I am controlling her. I had no control over her. She was just full of guilt.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Lilly_daddy said:


> As for trust issues..well MW has always thought I was engaged in some sort of EA or PA before to which she had zero proof. I was not meeting up with anyone, texting anyone, chatting online or any of that. I simply put family responsibilities first. I have three major actions in my day...eat..work and sleep. Most days I would go more than 24 hours with no sleep in order o to let her sleep or so I could spend time with the kids. I still have my two jobs. Our babysitter is on call and I plan on taking her to a movie this weekend...as a surprise..or perhaps a comedy club. Dancing would still be a stretch, as she would still not go with me due to her belief that the only reason I was interested was because someone else was, even though she had asked me prior to everything happening.
> 
> I am trying to get back to basics in my life. I want to do more with my Family. I want to reconnect and show MW that happiness can be found within our lives together and


You keep rewriting and making excuses for her actions, but I'm not there and won't argue with the moving goal posts.

All I'll say is, I had a friend like you, whose family self destructed. Like you he swore everything was black when everyone else saw grey.He did all of the work, did everything he could when his wife cheated and he blamed himself just like you. About a year after I moved out of state, I get a call he had a stroke. I actually remember him complaining about headaches before and told him to go to the doctor. I also told him he was working way to hard and to make his wife accountable for her actions and the marriage. He died a few hours before I could get to the hospital. I believe 100% he worked himself to death. 

An unhappy and unhealthy you is not good for anyone.

I KNOW, SOURCE MY CLAIM:
http://www.ant-tnsjournal.com/Mag_Files/21-2/002.pdf


----------



## InlandTXMM

Get angry already. My God, she is depriving you of a marriage, your kids of a family life, her parents of their grandchildren... over another man. OVER ANOTHER MAN. Not over a friendship - a relationship that means more to her than her husband, her kids, and her own mother.

Can you see now why the OM's wife wants nothing to do with you both? Your wife is an absolute threat to her marriage, and she doesn't trust you to be able to pull your wife back and control the situation. The OM's wife sees your wife as the head of your home, and that's why she sh*t-canned you both.


----------



## awake1

At some point, I hope you decide to no longer be a doormat. 

That does not mean being unreasonable with people, that means beginning to flex the spine you were born with.


Have you read no more mr nice guy and married man sex life primer? Do you lift weights? Go out and socialize?


----------



## InlandTXMM

OP give us an update. You're awfully quiet.


----------



## workindad

Wow your wife was obviously very attached to her OM. Her reactions make no sense for any other explanation. There is more to her relationship with him than you know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Your WS is blowing of the holidays over A LOT more than an EA and your MIL knows it.

Your WS is p!ssed because she's missing the physical connection that she had with the OM. But don't worry, she'll be trying to figure out a way to get it back.

The writing, it's right there on the wall. You just have to open your eyes to read it.


----------



## InlandTXMM

OP's been on to read this but is laying low.

I understand not wanting to deal with the truth of the situation, but it won't help anything to play along with your wife that nothing happened. All it will do is further her resentment of you.

I hope you keep coming back here for moral support. You're facing the most profound hurt of your life.


----------



## Decorum

He really has no choice but to wait and see if because of NC she will detox from her affair and recover her, honesty, commitment, and her intimacy with her husband.

The fact that she has not admitted to anything wrong is a pillbox.
( i.e. Machine gun nest, spraying the ground of their relationship with death.)

Perhaps as she defogs, she will see what she has done, IDK.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Hi All. Well right now things at home have improved. My Wife's Cell Phone is still under my name however I no longer have it tracked. She pretty much has been checking randomly whether or not I have her phone registered to receive text messages. We have been getting along well the last week. Kids are doing well and things between us are good. It's a state of unknown right now. She still doesn't believe she crossed any boundaries due to the fact that I gave permission to do all the things she was doing like taking pics and stuff even though I had objected to the dance class. My Wife has never taken the dance class because I had already put the brakes on it with the OM by telling both him and HW and they both agreed it would not happen if I was not cool with it. 

Now for the big news. Recently I found out that the OM has severe heart problems and that he recently had a transfusion and that there's the possibility he has colon cancer for the second time. This news has sadly made me less than sad for him. I don't wish him any ill harm but at the same time the longer he's thinking about other things and not MW then the better it is for everyone. MW has been better with her mood. She has put my daughter in dance class so her moods have been much better. Things are good at home lately but that is not to say that I am letting my guard down at all. I have a friend of mine getting me quotes on three VAR's. One for the car and two for the house.


----------



## Tobyboy

Interesting. Is your W aware of the OM's condition?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Yes she is. Says she Sad for HW because he has a history of his father dying young of a heart attack so chances are he's going to be focusing solely on his health rather than anything else right now. I found out through her but had it confirmed.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

That's one of the main reasons he was home from work in the first palace. He had a concussion and was off because of bad headaches. He hasn't been given the go-aheasd to return because of his health. I'm not really sure what will happen to him. He seems to have poor genetics.


----------



## Tobyboy

Lilly_daddy said:


> Yes she is. Says she Sad for HW because he has a history of his father dying young of a heart attack so chances are he's going to be focusing solely on his health rather than anything else right now. I found out through her but had it confirmed.


WTF!!!!! She's still in contact? How is she getting this info.....and why?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

She got the information through people at my daughters school.


----------



## Tobyboy

Lilly_daddy said:


> She got the information through people at my daughters school.


What do you mean by "people at my daughters school"? Other parents? Teachers? The OM's wife? 

Are these people volunteering this info, or is your W inquiring?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

We haven't had my daughter taken out of her school yet so there is the possibility that she runs into The Wife who she still maintains some semblance of contact with through the school. They are for all intents and purposes friends. I can only control so much when I'm not even home and sometimes when MW takes my daughter to school she does come into contact. Right now my stress level could not be at a higher level unless I was participating in electric shock experiments. Some of it is self imposed due to paranoia and some of it is brought on by other elements.

What I do know is the situation has changed somewhat to what it was into a major health situation that has the potential to result in the death of the OM. I don't want that to happen because they have two small children and she doesn't make a lot of $ at her job. The house would more than likely be paid off with any LI policy but that's elsewhere.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

It was a friend of a friend


----------



## Tobyboy

Lilly_daddy said:


> We haven't had my daughter taken out of her school yet so there is the possibility that she runs into The Wife who she still maintains some semblance of contact with through the school. They are for all intents and purposes friends. I can only control so much when I'm not even home and sometimes when MW takes my daughter to school she does come into contact.


Again WTF!!!! I thought the other couple wanted NC!!! Dude...your getting played!


----------



## Lilly_daddy

The only contact right now is at school for a very brief period during the morning. My daughter gets bussed home. not a hell of a lot I can do about that. Only so much I can do right now.


----------



## Tobyboy

Lilly_daddy said:


> It was a friend of a friend


I'll ask again....Are these people volunteering this info, or is your W inquiring?


----------



## azteca1986

Lilly_daddy said:


> I have a friend of mine getting me quotes on three VAR's. One for the car and two for the house.


Good move. You're wise not to get complacent.

The OM's ill health probably will occupy him, but it gives your wife a damn good 'excuse' to contact him regularly.

Get the VAR's in place as soon as you can.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I asked and I believed she inquired


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I agree. VAR's are going in the car this week and at home.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

As it stands right now she cares more than the average person does about others so her asking doesn't seem that much out of the ordinary. My Wife needs time to get used to not having access as much as she did before.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

The OM's health seems to be doing more than occupying him. It may end his life


----------



## azteca1986

Lilly_daddy said:


> The OM's health seems to be doing more than occupying him. It may end his life


Shame for him; an emotional time for your wife ahead.

Have things improved between your wife and her mother? That's some 'friendship' to cut her own mother out of her life.


----------



## Tobyboy

Lilly_daddy said:


> As it stands right now she cares more than the average person does about others so her asking doesn't seem that much out of the ordinary.


Compartmentalazation at its finest!


----------



## Lilly_daddy

It's not the friendship that actually resulted in her cutting her relationship with her mother. She found out that her Mother and I talk and she doesn't like it. Her Mother doesn't agree with what she was doing and she told her on several occasions. MW didn't like the fact that I was receiving justification for how I was feeling and she thought her Mother was the cause of our current situation even though she had very little to do with it. EVERYONE I asked saw a problem with it. They all told me I have not right to pick her friends but that what they were doing in the context of that friendship was very innapropriate.


----------



## sandc

My wife has a right to tell me who I can and can't hang around with. I can listen or not. If she is uncomfortable with one of my friends then that's it. I just politely excuse myself from hanging out with them any more. My wife is more important than my friends.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I totally agree with you and so did everyone else. That's how it's suppose to work.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Problem is I let the friendship go way too far and it was hard for her to end it. It became very tense


----------



## azteca1986

Lilly_daddy said:


> Her Mother doesn't agree with what she was doing and she told her on several occasions. MW didn't like the fact that I was receiving justification for how I was feeling and *she thought her Mother was the cause of our current situation* even though she had very little to do with it. EVERYONE I asked saw a problem with it.


People in, or coming out of, affairs blameshift. They are never at fault; either their husband is 'controlling' or 'paranoid'. In your case your wife is trying to blame her own mother. It's ridiculous. It doesn't make any logical sense, but that's what happens with affairs. The danger of EAs is that they are so subtle. A line (boundary) is crossed without people being aware of it. The way your wife is acting is not unusual in an EA. The Affair Partners are _always_ "Just good friends". Don't blame yourself, Lilly_daddy; we're not born knowing about these things. There's a book about EAs that will help:

Not "Just Friends": Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity: Shirley P. Glass, Jean Coppock Staeheli: 9780743225502: Amazon.com: Books

Get it. Read it with your wife. It'll help strengthen your marriage.



sandc said:


> My wife has a right to tell me who I can and can't hang around with. I can listen or not. If she is uncomfortable with one of my friends then that's it. I just politely excuse myself from hanging out with them any more. My wife is more important than my friends.


My wife and I are the same. I trust her to watch my back in our marriage. I trust her judgement. She's not the jealous type and I don't give her reason to be jealous. But if she points out a threat, I listen, because - *My spouse is more important than my friends.*


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I am in so much agreement with what everyone is telling me here and it makes me feel very comfortable knowing there are others here who feel the way I do. It's funny because if I didn't know what to look for I never would have thought it was an EA. I mean the two of them would chat after he brought her back from taking pics and she would stand outside with him chatting for 30 minutes or so while I was waiting for her to come inside while I was taking care of the kids. I never got to go out anywhere with anyone before all this...then they want me to go and do things with HW. I was thinking to myself...are you f***ing nuts? Why would I even contemplate doing that. And I was made to feel bad because somehow I was suppose to just let the outings continue just because I initially allowed it to happen. Somehow I was expected to let things continue all because I said yes. A mistake on my part...yes but no one said I couldn't change my mind.


----------



## bfree

Lilly_daddy said:


> I am in so much agreement with what everyone is telling me here and it makes me feel very comfortable knowing there are others here who feel the way I do. It's funny because if I didn't know what to look for I never would have thought it was an EA. I mean the two of them would chat after he brought her back from taking pics and she would stand outside with him chatting for 30 minutes or so while I was waiting for her to come inside while I was taking care of the kids. I never got to go out anywhere with anyone before all this...then they want me to go and do things with HW. I was thinking to myself...are you f***ing nuts? Why would I even contemplate doing that. And I was made to feel bad because somehow I was suppose to just let the outings continue just because I initially allowed it to happen. Somehow I was expected to let things continue all because I said yes. A mistake on my part...yes but no one said I couldn't change my mind.


So you allowed their relationship as friends to build. Then when they starting spending an inordinate amount of time together you probably figured it would blow over after a while. It was only when it continued without an end in sight that you finally realized there was a problem. Friend, that's probably what 99% of people would do. Was it a mistake? Possibly but not by you. It was their mistake and after you told them you had a problem with it it was now their *choice* to continue. Do not accept any blame or feel any guilt for this. Just because you allowed their "friendship" initially doesn't mean they had/have carte blanche to continue it when it became inappropriate. You have every right to demand this friendship end once it crossed your boundary. End of discussion.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

bfree said:


> So you allowed their relationship as friends to build. Then when they starting spending an inordinate amount of time together you probably figured it would blow over after a while. It was only when it continued without an end in sight that you finally realized there was a problem. Friend, that's probably what 99% of people would do. Was it a mistake? Possibly but not by you. It was their mistake and after you told them you had a problem with it it was now their *choice* to continue. Do not accept any blame or feel any guilt for this. Just because you allowed their "friendship" initially doesn't mean they had/have carte blanche to continue it when it became inappropriate. You have every right to demand this friendship end once it crossed your boundary. End of discussion.



Thank You for that. The odd part about it is that her Mother asked me "why did you say yes then"? I told her that she made me feel guilt6y about it. She used the "I'm home all the time" card against me. I was very reluctant in agreeing with all this and never felt good about any of it, especially being told and not asked about the dancing lessons. I felt so uncomfortable around her friends most times. Sometimes like I was intrusive on the time she spent there. I felt like some pity case they were forced to make friends with and the line about "borrow my wife and do stuff"....WTF does that even mean. It basically gives justification for the two of them to go all out with whatever activities they want to engage in. I'm not having any of that. I told MW that if I had to do it all over again I never would have even allowed one single outing.


----------



## azteca1986

Lilly_daddy, if you haven't already, read this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ever-went-physical-better-come-clean-not.html

It's a very honest account by a poster about his EA. It'll help you understand what your wife is going through, why she feels depressed, etc.

Get the VARs, monitor by all means. But at some time in the near future you have to address your wife's affair with her. Currently she cannot see what she did is inappropriate (well, plain wrong). You have to help her.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

It's hard for My Wife to even realize that anything bad or inappropriate was even occurring in her eyes. I have no reason to suspect it became a PA mainly because My Wife has major, I mean major body issues and doesn't even like pics of her taken with clothes on due to weights issues. That's not even a concern for me. The Main Concern for me is that she won't see it as that from me. She needs to have it told to her and she won't because everyone she thinks would tell her she was doing something wrong have basically been sold a bill of goods. She will only focus on the "controlling" issue she says I had with her. She will always tell people her side of things so I am made out to be the bad husband.


----------



## azteca1986

The problem with EAs are that they are so subtle. People don't even know they are in one until it's too late. 
PAs are easier. It's bloody obvious when you kiss and grope someone that you have already crossed lines. EAs are much more insidious as "friends" are a good thing, right? 

Read up and understand what you're dealing with. If you can afford three VARs you can also afford that book I mentioned.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Thanks I just hope she realizes what was going on between her and the OM. I do plan on getting the VAR's and the reading will do me some good. Yeah subtle is right..I think she perhaps thought it was just friendship but was blinded somehow into thinking it was just that. Either way it makes no difference to me in the long run. I'd rather have a few months of misery than a lifetime of worry.


----------



## azteca1986

Lilly_daddy said:


> Either way it makes no difference to me in the long run. I'd rather have a few months of misery than a lifetime of worry.


Enough with this defeatist talk, my man.

Here's a quote from that thread I referenced:


John Lee said:


> An EA is a strange thing -- on one hand, you're preventing yourself from crossing a certain line, and that says something I think -- that some part of you still wants to be loyal and do the right thing and something is holding you back from having a PA. On the other hand, the level of deception and self-deception can be extreme in an EA, because you convince yourself that it's just a "friendship," or that, when it gets beyond that, you can just "step back" a level so it becomes a friendship again. I convinced myself a lot of ridiculous things and concealed a lot from my wife because the fact that we weren't "actually doing anything" made it seem ok in my mind. But of course it wasn't.


This is an intelligent, articulate man who managed to get himself in the same mess your wife has. It happens. It happens too much because we're never taught the dangers of opposite sex friends when we don't know what boundaries are. 

Right now you need to show your wife, your family leadership. Your wife is unaware of the place she has got herself in. She is not the enemy. She's your wife and she needs your help.

Read that thread. Get the VARs. Good luck mate.


----------



## Voltaire2013

Lilly_daddy said:


> Thanks I just hope she realizes what was going on between her and the OM. I do plan on getting the VAR's and the reading will do me some good. Yeah subtle is right..I think she perhaps thought it was just friendship but was blinded somehow into thinking it was just that. Either way it makes no difference to me in the long run. I'd rather have a few months of misery than a lifetime of worry.


LD, just curious, have you been doing anything for just you in all this? Working out? Eating better, reading more about relationships, giving up bad habits etc? No matter what happens in you marriage, you should always be working ON you, FOR you, you spouse gets the benefits regardless..

Thanks,
V


----------



## Tobyboy

Lilly_daddy said:


> Thanks I just hope she realizes what was going on between her and the OM.


This will never happen until total NC is established!! That means mental and physical No Contact!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Lilly_daddy said:


> I am in so much agreement with what everyone is telling me here and it makes me feel very comfortable knowing there are others here who feel the way I do. It's funny because if I didn't know what to look for I never would have thought it was an EA. * I mean the two of them would chat after he brought her back from taking pics and she would stand outside with him chatting for 30 minutes or so while I was waiting for her to come inside while I was taking care of the kids. I never got to go out anywhere with anyone before all this...then they want me to go and do things with HW.* I was thinking to myself...are you f***ing nuts? Why would I even contemplate doing that. And I was made to feel bad because somehow I was suppose to just let the outings continue just because I initially allowed it to happen. Somehow I was expected to let things continue all because I said yes. A mistake on my part...yes but no one said I couldn't change my mind.


This is EXACTLY why most here do not believe it was just an EA.



Lilly_daddy said:


> Either way it makes no difference to me in the long run. I'd rather have a few months of misery than a* lifetime of worry.*


She is already breaking no contact boundaries, what are you going to do if he gets empathy/pity sex from your wife? Will you be able to forgive that?

If she is in this "fog" what makes you think it won't happen again?


----------



## Entropy3000

Lilly_daddy said:


> Thanks I just hope she realizes what was going on between her and the OM. I do plan on getting the VAR's and the reading will do me some good. Yeah subtle is right..I think she perhaps thought it was just friendship but was blinded somehow into thinking it was just that. Either way it makes no difference to me in the long run. I'd rather have a few months of misery than a lifetime of worry.


This will not happen. There must be complete NC AND complete withdrawal. Complete NC means zero contact of any kind. Not a single note, not viewing a FB post, not seeing someone from 50 yards away. Zero. Nadda. Zilch. IF she was say one month into withdrawal and there was any contact whatsoever, the clock starts over.

The deeper the affair the longer the withdrawal. Withdrawal of a beginning affair can take say two months of NC along with a commitment to the marriage. If this was a PA or a deep EA the withdrawal may not work at all. I can tell you I have held feelings for someone for 35 years. 

But the NC must be forever. Contact years later can cause things to go right back where they were.

So if you have not insisted on complete NC, then sorry you are playing the dead man's hand.


----------



## sandc

I must have missed the part where they were trying to get you to go do something with OM's wife. It sounds like they were trying to assuage the guilt by setting you up with his wife. His wife won't talk to you anymore because you basically turned her down. Sounds like they're trying to basically set up either a swinging or polyamory situation. I am so glad to read that you put a stop to this. Stay strong.


----------



## weightlifter

sandc said:


> I must have missed the part where they were trying to get you to go do something with OM's wife. It sounds like they were trying to assuage the guilt by setting you up with his wife. His wife won't talk to you anymore because you basically turned her down. Sounds like they're trying to basically set up either a swinging or polyamory situation. I am so glad to read that you put a stop to this. Stay strong.


Nominated for the disturbing idea of the day.


----------



## sandc

It's just a thought I had. My wife and I were swingers for a short time and we saw couples trying to recruit new couples this way.

But then sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Last Night My Wife was giving the kids a bath and she left her phone unattended! I could not believe it. I got a peak at it. I first checked the contact list...nothing. She doesn't have the OM in there nor does she have her Ex-BF. No texts...no nothing in there. No Conversations between any of them in there. Her phone was clean. I was happy about that but also a little worried that she might have another phone around that she's been using for certain individuals...however why get upset that I was tracking her phone if she had a burner phone on the side? Makes me think she was finally showing some level of honesty with me. She promptly recovered her phone when she came back down but said nothing to me when she looked at it. I was quick to leave it exactly where it was when I unlocked it. 

I do not believe that the OM and HW were swingers. When MW got caught texting her Ex-Bf her then friends got very angry with her and said that they could not be friends with someone that has no morals and would have an affair. I am pretty convinced that they are not into that but you never know.


----------



## Tobyboy

Phone calls can be erased, numbers can be remembered, apps can be used to communicate....
Is her phone on a plan where you can check the calls details online? If she's still guarding her phone, she hiding something!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Her phone is still on my plan. I have detailed billing where I can view the incoming calls. I have to call during the month where the calls are made in order to view them. I can see who she called and I have outgoing and incoming text messages blocked on her phone via call manager.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

She's not guarding her phone as closely as she used to. She's actually not guarding as closely as she used to at all which is a good thing. She tells me where she is going. Always answers the phone when I call. I also reset the trip meter on the car when I get home so when he takes it to go out I can track where she's been because the distance from place to place isn't difficult to ascertain.

Right now I am a very busy person. I work seven days a week. I spend family time Mon-Fri when I get home from work. I rotate shifts and on weekends I spend the free time I can with my family. There's nothing in this world that means more to me than they do. I have friends and family of course but My Wife and kids are my world which is why I work like I do for them. I couldn't have care less if I was renting an apartment still. The house is for them in terms of having a backyard to play in...a place to call home and something to truly call ours. I like having a house also. It gives me something to tell people I own. It's something to show for my hard work over the last 8 years. 

All I want is for her to know that I have certain things I will never do and certain line I will never cross. I will never even contemplate even coming close to ever being even remotely unfaithful to My Wife. I don't hit the bars before coming home, I never go out with co-workers after work, I always spend what little time I have with My Family and cherish old fashioned aspects of life such as being faithful to the one you love. It's the primary reason I did what I did and I told MY Wife I would do it over again if I had to.

My Wife will never fully understand why I did what I did. She will never fully know the intelligence that lies within an analytical mind such as mine. She is smart..yes but she displays a level of naivete that staggers the mind. I tried to tell her how the mind of a man works but she kept telling me she was sharp enough to read the signs. Is it possible for someone to truly be ignorant of the signs? Can they be naive enough to truly be unaware? I guess until she sees her folly for what it truly is she will never be aware of it's lasting effects.


----------



## weightlifter

Women know the bad boy and looks player from a mile away, many never seeing the most dangerous insidious kind. The married woman targeting friend player.


----------



## 3putt

Lilly_daddy said:


> *Is it possible for someone to truly be ignorant of the signs? Can they be naive enough to truly be unaware?*


These are rhetorical questions, right?

You should get the book "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass and have her read it. Maybe that will open her eyes just a little. 

Not "Just Friends": Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity: Shirley P. Glass, Jean Coppock Staeheli: 9780743225502: Amazon.com: Books


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Purely rhetorical of course. She would always tell me she would have been well aware of the signs. Little did she know that the signs would have been even more difficult to see due to the fact that she was only seeing half the picture.


----------



## InlandTXMM

She sees what she wants to see, my friend. She doesn't face up to anything she does, so anything this man did to her was "just friends".

She sees her mother as the bad guy in this, for Pete's sake. Your wife's view of the real world is a little "foggy", to put it mildly (and in TAM vernacular).


----------



## Thorburn

My Wife will never fully understand why I did what I did. She will never fully know the intelligence that lies within an analytical mind such as mine. She is smart..yes but she displays a level of naivete that staggers the mind. I tried to tell her how the mind of a man works but she kept telling me she was sharp enough to read the signs. Is it possible for someone to truly be ignorant of the signs? *Can they be naive enough to truly be unaware?* I guess until she sees her folly for what it truly is she will never be aware of it's lasting effects. 


My wife played that card for years. We had some heated discussions about this. My wife finally came clean even about this. She knew exactly what she was doing and what men were doing.


----------



## Philat

_My Wife will never fully understand why I did what I did. She will never fully know the intelligence that lies within an analytical mind such as mine. She is smart..yes but she displays a level of naivete that staggers the mind. I tried to tell her how the mind of a man works but she kept telling me she was sharp enough to read the signs. Is it possible for someone to truly be ignorant of the signs? Can they be naive enough to truly be unaware? I guess until she sees her folly for what it truly is she will never be aware of it's lasting effects.


My wife played that card for years. We had some heated discussions about this. *My wife finally came clean even about this. She knew exactly what she was doing and what men were doing.
*_

Of course. They know exactly what these men are up to.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Philat said:


> _My Wife will never fully understand why I did what I did. She will never fully know the intelligence that lies within an analytical mind such as mine. She is smart..yes but she displays a level of naivete that staggers the mind. I tried to tell her how the mind of a man works but she kept telling me she was sharp enough to read the signs. Is it possible for someone to truly be ignorant of the signs? Can they be naive enough to truly be unaware? I guess until she sees her folly for what it truly is she will never be aware of it's lasting effects.
> 
> 
> My wife played that card for years. We had some heated discussions about this. *My wife finally came clean even about this. She knew exactly what she was doing and what men were doing.
> *_
> 
> Of course. They know exactly what these men are up to.


... which is exactly why they play along. 

OP you seem to place your wife high on a pedestal, to your peril. I'm not saying to kick dirt on her. I AM saying, you are married to a flawed human being. Stop seeing Princess Buttercup and see her for what she is.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I often see My Wife as someone who wishes that the world would giver her what she wants for just one day. To be able to do what she wants, be wherever she wants and see whoever she wants. She can't have these things and often strikes me as the proverbial temper tantrum throwing teenager who gets caught by Dad when she's trying to sneak out of the house through her bedroom window to meet up with the snot nosed punk next door to the local make out spot. I don't see her as anything lately but someone who veils her efforts in a failed attempt to hider her true intentions. She sometimes comes across as genuine but for her that may simply be a mistake on her part by not masking her plot carefully and allowing some true colours to creep through. 

It's simple sometimes to know what she's trying to do and you can feel the awkwardness of it all when you call her on it and she plays so unknowing that it's literally comical. She will act serious but you can tell she knows she's been caught.


----------



## workindad

Put a VAR in place sooner rather than later.


----------



## krismimo

Sorry you are going through this but I think wife your lied to you this whole time. I think a lot of your anger resurfaced because you never got the chance to tackle the EA she had with her ex. Your wife is a selfish person by nature and you enable her. She has no respect for you or your family. She cut out her own family because of a disagreement in her relationship with you and OM. 

She is a child that runs from her problems. The only reason why things are calm is because OM is gravely ill. I think your wife is a serial cheater and she will do it again given the chance. She is being good for the time being and once she feels comfortable she will go back to doing what she did before. You stood up to her which is good and all but the root of your problem is your wife. If she does not think she did anything wrong to you than it is clear that she would do it again in the near future. She hasn't suffered any consequences with the first EA and you never really found out the extent of how bad the EA was going. Last thing I also want to add is that you said she saved about 300.00 to pay for a bill. If you control all the bills than why does she have that amount of money stashed in her OWN drawer that does not makes sense. And you stated that it was the first time you noticed that she had stashed away money in her drawer not trying to add conspiracy theory but there is no way if you knowing if and when she did buy a burner phone. she could have bought one long time ago without you realizing it, now I could be wrong and it could a stretch but you are in some ways wayyy to trusting in what your wife tells you vs what the reality of what is going on in your home. I wish you luck.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

^^^Right.
To be blunt, even if he dies this boundary problem will still exist in your marriage.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I have considered the issue with this. If the OM happens to pass away as a result of his illness then yes I believe the boundary issue may still remain, however I have pushed the issue with My Wife lately about how I find behaviour such as this to be unacceptable and as much as she seems to think I'm being irrational she still doesn't seem willing to cross the limits I have placed on what I will and will not tolerate.

It seems as though any boundaries MW and I discuss will be those things that are set before any other friendships are formed. I have told her on many occasions that if my daughter is invited to a playdate that she is not to be taking her there if there is only going to be a dad there or if it is a single father parenting the child then she is to extend the invite when I am there only and I have to meet him. No more telling me about a "friend" she has that happens to be a male that I am not aware of. 

I also told her that there is to be no more male friends "at all". She was quite aware of the reasons I did this as I wish to avoid any pitfalls in the future when it comes to unwarranted friendships. I have plans to pick up the books recommended to me by the members her at TAM. I will leave them about the house and either push one of them on MW or let her grab one for herself and just see what it was she was getting herself into without either knowing or by simply engaging in the "ignorance is bliss" behaviour.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I have brought up the EA that My Wife had with her Ex. She still refuses to believe she cheated with him. She thinks it was simply a "mistake". I have told her it was not a mistake and that she knew what she was doing was wrong. She was in total control. She admits she was wrong for doing it but still believes she has overcome it and thinks she already deserves a second chance. right now I still can't get it out of my head. I'm still very hurt and very angry about it.


----------



## azteca1986

Lilly_daddy said:


> She admits she was wrong for doing it but still believes she has overcome it and thinks she already deserves a second chance. right now I still can't get it out of my head. I'm still very hurt and very angry about it.


If she's overcome 'it' why are you here posting about another inappropriate relationship? She really needs to open her eyes.

What happened in the previous EA?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

This is something that for me has been very hard to get over. My Wife calls it her mistake and for all intents and purposes she has not contacted her Ex-BF to my knowledge of course (it's as much as anyone can say really). It's what happened back in July. 

As for right now she has ended the friendship with the OM but she still continues to bring up the fact that I'm the one that said they could do stuff together and that I never should have said "yes" in the first place. She's right I never should have said yes but expecting me to just let her friendship continue no matter how many people said to me "what the hell are you letting her do that for" is just ludicrous. I have told her I won't be making that mistake again. 

In the previous EA she was caught sexting her ex-BF on her cell phone by me. I had her phone tracked and she was caught red handed, on the couch sitting next to my 5 year old daughter texting sexually charged messages to this guy. She deleted him from her phone and a NC text was sent to him and he in turn sent one to her. The effects of it all led me to not trust anything she did or anything she told me. Still feels like it was yesterday sometimes.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Lilly_daddy said:


> yes I believe the boundary issue may still remain, however I have pushed the issue with My Wife lately about how I find behaviour such as this to be unacceptable and as much as she seems to think I'm being irrational she still doesn't seem willing to cross the limits I have placed on what I will and will not tolerate.
> she was getting herself into without either knowing or by simply engaging in the "ignorance is bliss" behaviour.





Lilly_daddy said:


> I have brought up the EA that My Wife had with her Ex. She still refuses to believe she cheated with him. She thinks it was simply a "mistake". I have told her it was not a mistake and that she knew what she was doing was wrong. She was in total control. She admits she was wrong for doing it but still believes she has overcome it and thinks she already deserves a second chance. right now I still can't get it out of my head. I'm still very hurt and very angry about it.


Well, this just tells me she gets over things, it negates your "bliss" or "not knowing" comment and shows the issue will ALWAYS exist since she doesn't get "it." She's just ended EA number two, not really since she keeps fishing for information, you understand it gets easier and easier each time right? The next one will most likely move faster and end up as a PA. Nope, not clairvoyant, but you have now shown us she uses the EXACT same excuses for her boundary issues.

As they say, "first time shame on you, second time shame on me." Whatever you do, don't let there be a third.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I'm not sure how to make her see that she cheated. I know that some people might be on the fence about it but not me. I believe it's cheating 100% and that there is no grey area here. I can see how she might not want to admit that she did something totally unforgiving to some. I have been thinking about going for some independent counselling for myself just to get some professional perspective on it and to just get it out. I can even do them over the phone through work.


----------



## azteca1986

Lilly_daddy said:


> As for right now she has ended the friendship with the OM but she still continues to bring up the fact that I'm the one that said they could do stuff together and that I never should have said "yes" in the first place. She's right I never should have said yes but expecting me to just let her friendship continue no matter how many people said to me "what the hell are you letting her do that for" is just ludicrous. I have told her I won't be making that mistake again.


Good grief, your wife has a long way to go if she's still blame shifting her affair on to you. That's like her say "I wrecked the car. but it's you're fault for letting me drive it in the first place". Does your wife know wha marital boundaries are and why she needs them?



> This is something that for me has been very hard to get over. My Wife calls it her mistake and for all intents and purposes she has not contacted her Ex-BF to my knowledge of course (it's as much as anyone can say really). It's what happened back in July.
> 
> In the previous EA she was caught sexting her ex-BF on her cell phone by me. I had her phone tracked and *she was caught red handed, on the couch sitting next to my 5 year old daughter texting sexually charged messages to this guy. * She deleted him from her phone and a NC text was sent to him and he in turn sent one to her. The effects of it all led me to not trust anything she did or anything she told me. Still feels like it was yesterday sometimes.


That's a horrible image you've just painted. Your wife clearly has no idea how to have opposite sex friends. Exes have no place in a marriage, anyway.

What are you doing about addressing her inappropriate relationships? You can't police her forever.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Lilly_daddy said:


> I'm not sure how to make her see that she cheated. I know that some people might be on the fence about it but not me. I believe it's cheating 100% and that there is no grey area here. I can see how she might not want to admit that she did something totally unforgiving to some. I have been thinking about going for some independent counselling for myself just to get some professional perspective on it and to just get it out. I can even do them over the phone through work.


Sorry, this is one where Divorce papers are the only way to go. Nope, I am not saying get a divorce, I didn't divorce my wife, but you type like she is too perfect for you to lose. She knows this as well.

I said it in another thread. I printed out phone records, fake divorce papers (online not fake),had bags packed and all of the text in a pile on top of her bags. Nothing says holy s#$^t like being homeless.

Your wife's head is so far up her hindquarters she is blaming you. Like I told my wife "if there are things you can't say to me about our marriage, even if they may hurt, then we shouldn't be married."


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I got that ice cold feeling inside when I read the texts to the Ex-BF. I was so angry I could have cracked the walls


----------



## BobSimmons

Lil Daddy, you willfully ignore a pattern of behavior that is as clear as day for all to see.

You have not gotten concerted change. Just a bunch of words, promises and half hearted explanations (after all you said they could do stuff together didn't you-she still doesn't get it)

She had an emotional EA, and now this. What is missing from the marriage that is leading her to KEEP doing this? Because, this is a pattern of behavior so this will happen again and again, and again.


----------



## azteca1986

Lilly_daddy said:


> I'm not sure how to make her see that she cheated. I know that some people might be on the fence about it but not me. I believe it's cheating 100% and that there is no grey area here.


phillybeffandswiss has it right. In her mind what's she's done is a convenient 'great area'. Nothing like divorce papers to help her see that you look on her behaviour differently (and correctly). 

There are books too that can help, but have to read them through together. This one comes highly recommended for EAs:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Not-Just-Friends-Rebuilding-Recovering/dp/0743225503


----------



## azteca1986

BobSimmons said:


> She had an emotional EA, and now this. What is missing from the marriage that is leading her to KEEP doing this? Because, this is a pattern of behavior so this will happen again and again, and again.


What's missing from the marriage are clearly defined and self-enforced boundaries and any real consequence to stop her repeating her behaviour.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Lilly_daddy said:


> I got that ice cold feeling inside when I read the texts to the Ex-BF. I was so angry I could have cracked the walls


Trust me I know EXACTLY how you feel on that part. The ones I read weren't sexual, but one had an "I love you" exchange. I was so mad NO, rage is a better word, so full of rage, it was actually somewhat scary.

I found TAM and read the right threads, but the wrong amount of posts. So, I confronted too early. Still, it was all of the other advice that got me through, including the divorce paper print out.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

My Wife seems to think that they aren't boundaries and that I forced my "views" on her. I tried to tell her that I should not have allowed any time spent between the two of them and that she had guilted me into it by telling me she had no time outside the house.

She was even told by the OMW to "respect my feelings" and and that if it were the other way around she would expect the same from me. The thing with all that is that the OM listens to what his Wife tells him unlike MW who thinks she is invulnerable to self-imposed boundaries in a marriage. MW thinks she should be able to pursue any interest she has with whoever she wants and she spelled it out when we were texting yesterday.


----------



## Philat

Lilly_daddy said:


> My Wife seems to think that they aren't boundaries and that I forced my "views" on her. I tried to tell her that I should not have allowed any time spent between the two of them and that she had guilted me into it by telling me she had no time outside the house.
> 
> She was even told by the OMW to "respect my feelings" and and that if it were the other way around she would expect the same from me. The thing with all that is that the OM listens to what his Wife tells him unlike MW who thinks she is invulnerable to self-imposed boundaries in a marriage. *MW thinks she should be able to pursue any interest she has with whoever she wants and she spelled it out when we were texting yesterday.*


IOW, she wants to be single. Maybe you should grant that wish.


----------



## azteca1986

Philat said:


> IOW, she wants to be single. Maybe you should grant that wish.


Difficult to read her statement in any other way. That kind of attitude is incompatible with married life. 

When my wife put a ring on my finger she willingly gave up some freedoms. No dating other people. No sexting other people. And she gave me the authority to have the final say on whom she can and cannot be friends with. It goes without saying that the same applies to me. Not been an issue up to this point.

Lilly_daddy, with your WW's track record of poor judgement her refusal to have marital boundaries is a bad sign. Possibly terminal as far as your marriage goes.


----------



## The Middleman

Lilly_daddy said:


> She was even told by the OMW to "respect my feelings" and and that if it were the other way around she would expect the same from me. The thing with all that is that the OM listens to what his Wife tells him unlike MW who thinks she is invulnerable to self-imposed boundaries in a marriage. MW thinks she should be able to pursue any interest she has with whoever she wants and she spelled it out when we were texting yesterday.


The old saying around here is "You have to be willing to loose your marriage in order to save it". Be clear with her about what your deal breakers are and what you can or can not live with. Conversely, she should be clear about her deal breakers. If you two can't reach a conclusion on this, then you should go your separate ways. This just might make her see the light. 

I got the same line from my wife that you got when she was e-mailing her ex-boyfriend from HS a few years ago. "I didn't know I had to get your permission to e-mail an old friend" Well yes darling you do .... any male. I was prepared to walk out if she made an issue of it. I made it clear that it was a deal breaker for me. She was real pissed when I blocked his e-mail address with the ISP. In the end she saw the light. Hope the same happens with you.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Lilly_daddy said:


> My Wife seems to think that they aren't boundaries and that I forced my "views" on her. I tried to tell her that I should not have allowed any time spent between the two of them and that she had guilted me into it by telling me she had no time outside the house.


 Haha your wife knows my wife. My wife said a similar thing, about how she needs more time to get out of the house now that the kids were older. She was right, but that doesn't mean making new guy friends and talking about our relationship was approved. Here's the real issue, you saying I'm cool with hanging out MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, when the person crosses a line. I had no problem with my wife hanging out with her friends, I talk to women, she can talk to men. My MARRIAGE NEVER comes up, except when my female friend asks how my wife is doing. I shut down any attempts, my friend doesn't cross that line other women have, to discuss the intricacies of my marriage. I do have a problem with toxic conversations about me and the marriage. Especially when I ask you whats wrong you say "nothing" before, during and after I find the texts that say the exact opposite. That makes my wife a liar. So, how is it my fault when SHE decided to go along with their BS? It isn't my fault, nor is it yours. It's called being an adult and understanding that conversations happen between the opposite sex. Yes, sometimes friendships develop. Yet, if it bothers your spouse, unless it is a true control issue that needs counseling, the friendship should end no questions asked.



> thinks she is invulnerable to self-imposed boundaries in a marriage. MW thinks she should be able to pursue any interest she has with whoever she wants and she spelled it out when we were texting yesterday.


I'd give her the opportunity to leave and prepare myself for the single life. You are checking and hoping, while she is TELLING YOU she will do what she wants. Sorry, I know it is scary, but go look at the start of this thread, that's too long for one person to be miserable. I knew my wife might say "okay" and sign the papers. I had prepared myself for that and would have filed them as well. She said that's how she talks to friends, but I didn't believe her. Still don't 100%, so I was prepared to end the marriage. You need to get to that place. It doesn't mean you stop caring for her, it means you stop trying to save a marriage that she doesn't want.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Last Night I blasted her. This Morning she apologized. It's taking some time to make her see that what I'm asking isn't anything that she wouldn't be asking of me if the situation was reversed. She calls it "forcing my views" I call it setting proper boundaries that should be agreed upon by both spouses. She calls is "permission" I call it "Marital Authourization". So much of this refusal to see things the way they should stems from the fact that I made her do something she didn't want to do and she sees that as total control over her. She doesn't see it in anyway as something that could have potentially ended the marriage, just like she didn't see the sexting as cheating.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Well then you have differing values and boundaries for what constitutes a marriage.

This is what divorce courts call "irreconcilable differences".


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Yes it does, however in Canada that's not grounds for divorce as far as I am aware. These issues didn't come up until this guy became friends with her. MW and I had no issues like this. I had no female friends whatsoever and never even gave it a second thought and she never had male friends of the sort. It's when School started that this started going sideways on me. She seemed to think it was ok to make friends with both parents which is fine and then she discovered the things in common with the OM. That's when it all started. It's fair to assume that a this point she's pretty aware of what I find to be overstepping boundaries. I receive regular updates as to where she is at all times. I still don't track her phone but I keep tabs on the mileage on the car and check the phone records regularly.


----------



## sandc

Your wife is trying to manipulate you into an open marriage.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

sandc said:


> Your wife is trying to manipulate you into an open marriage.


It's the funniest thing that you mention that because a while back the OMW Mother asked that. She had said that because it seemed that they were trying to get me to become friends with them and I had thought that as well when the OM said to me "Borrow my Wife" and do stuff with her...:scratchhead:

I found it to be both a disturbing and a gross thought at the same time. To have my wife seduced by another man makes me wanna gouge my eyes out and erase the memory from my mind completely. To have sex with another mans Wife is also a very disturbing thought to have also. I am a firm believer that a marriage is between two people and there are no third parties allowed.


----------



## LostViking

LD, some people are just not marriage material. 

Your wife is one of them. 

Move on...


----------



## verpin zal

sandc said:


> Your wife is trying to manipulate you into an open marriage.


sandc is right, but it will be "open marriage" only for her.

We all know what happens when a woman wants to eat cake but husband finds a hotter, younger and tastier cake, do we not folks?

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...xplain-cheater-how-much-hurt.html#post5258498 for the most recent reference.


----------



## The Middleman

Lilly_daddy said:


> She calls it "forcing my views" I call it setting proper boundaries that should be agreed upon by both spouses. She calls is "permission" I call it "Marital Authourization". So much of this refusal to see things the way they should stems from the fact that I made her do something she didn't want to do and she sees that as total control over her. She doesn't see it in anyway as something that could have potentially ended the marriage, just like she didn't see the sexting as cheating.


My wife saw nothing wrong with e-mailing her ex-boyfriend because it was nothing but catch-up ... and there was nothing wrong in the e-mails ... I saw them. But I can also tell when a guy is fishing and he was fishing ... and I didn't want her in contact with him. In the end, contact with an ex (or any male), in secrete without telling a husband to see if he is OK with it, is not acceptable. She thought it was .... and for me it was a deal breaker. I said to her if being in contact with a guy she hasn't seen in 25+ years is more important than my feelings on the matter then she can go right ahead and do what she pleases, but I would be divorcing her. You need to make the same case.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

My Wife has never been one to want to share me with anyone. Her and I have spoken about it before and she couldn't even handle the thought of me being with another woman so an "open marriage" situation would be totally out. The OM she was friends with is 8 years older than I am. I'm not sure if this is a mid-life thing for her or not. The 7 year itch as they call it....well we've been married for 8 years...


----------



## Lilly_daddy

The Middleman said:


> My wife saw nothing wrong with e-mailing her ex-boyfriend because it was nothing but catch-up ... and there was nothing wrong in the e-mails ... I saw them. But I can also tell when a guy is fishing and he was fishing ... and I didn't want her in contact with him. In the end, contact with an ex (or any male), in secrete without telling a husband to see if he is OK with it, is not acceptable. She thought it was .... and for me it was a deal breaker. I said to her if being in contact with a guy she hasn't seen in 25+ years is more important than my feelings on the matter then she can go right ahead and do what she pleases, but I would be divorcing her. You need to make the same case.



I made that ultimatum to her. That is what originally started most of this. She had no choice but to do what was required. she didn't like it..she stated that but still did it


----------



## Lilly_daddy

How does one get someone to see the point that they are trying to get across but still keep the integrity and maturity level of the subject matter solid? I have tried and tried to drill this into My Wife's brain that it wasn't just the OM...it's "All Men"


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Okay, I'm going to be blunt. Your wife is a big hypocrite.

I read your old threads, dude she has manipulated you into a guilt trip. She barks at you for having hidden porn, then engages in *sexting porn. * Then she takes pics and wants to dance with another guy? Stop the madness, your wife is an entitled woman.

Really, 2009? It is 2013, you have paid any and ALL penance for watching porn. Put your foot down and stop all of this second guessing. YOUR "crime" has been over for 4 years, you need to stop guilting yourself like you owe her something. You have forgiven the TWO indiscretions that you know about.

Oh and the 180 the other man's wife pulled, that tells me you don't know the full story.



Lilly_daddy said:


> My Wife has never been one to want to share me with anyone. Her and I have spoken about it before and she couldn't even handle the thought of me being with another woman so an "open marriage" situation would be totally out. The OM she was friends with is 8 years older than I am. I'm not sure if this is a mid-life thing for her or not. The 7 year itch as they call it....well we've been married for 8 years...


LOL. You mistook that for a legitimate open marriage. No, SHE wants you to allow her to cheat under the guise of an "open marriage." You will be mature and won't engage, but she'll be able to do what she wants because you approved.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I have always had this feeling that the OMW has had some suspicion about just what was going on between MW and the OM. She let the activity continue but on who's word? MW's or the OM? I know MW has a natural hypocritical way about her...calling the pot black sort of thing. 

The whole reason I let her do anything in the first place was because of her manufactured guilt trip on me. I regretfully gave in to it and I think now it's not working and that pisses her off. I felt bad that she's a SAHM that got very little time with friends. We have a son who isn't even a year and a half yet and she's complaining she can't go out and have her friend time meanwhile I'm the one working two jobs for almost 8 years. This is what has been driving me to keep my foot down, planted and moving forward for this long. She seems impervious to natural logic.


----------



## sandc

*Re: Re: My Wife's Married Male Friend*



Lilly_daddy said:


> It's the funniest thing that you mention that because a while back the OMW Mother asked that. She had said that because it seemed that they were trying to get me to become friends with them and I had thought that as well when the OM said to me "Borrow my Wife" and do stuff with her...:scratchhead:
> 
> I found it to be both a disturbing and a gross thought at the same time. To have my wife seduced by another man makes me wanna gouge my eyes out and erase the memory from my mind completely. To have sex with another mans Wife is also a very disturbing thought to have also. I am a firm believer that a marriage is between two people and there are no third parties allowed.


And this is the normal healthy view of marriage. Don't give an inch.


----------



## azteca1986

Has she read "Not Just Friends?"

There's a link to it on post #408


----------



## The Middleman

Lilly_daddy said:


> How does one get someone to see the point that they are trying to get across but still keep the integrity and maturity level of the subject matter solid? I have tried and tried to drill this into My Wife's brain that it wasn't just the OM...it's "All Men"


You make your case. Try to be unemotional about it but be firm and carry through with your promises. I find that on this site, the guys that hurt the most are the guys who say "if you cheat again I'm divorcing you" and then they don't follow through .... they are still with their wives trying to make ago of it for a second or third time ..... knowing they have been played. Now I'm not advocating divorce at all ... but a guy needs to be firm about what he will tolerate, otherwise he looses his self respect. Seems like you are very clear about your deal breakers. After you have made your case, I would stop trying to convince her. Do a little bit of 180 and see what happens. Always watch the situation closely and if she starts with other guys again .... slap her with the papers.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I tried once before to get MW to read articles by well known MC specialists but she said that none of it applied to her. she seemed generally angry that she would be categorized that way and found it to be an insult. I am going to print some stuff out for her to read in the hope that it helps to make her see exactly what I'm trying to tell her. We do have a neighbour that "stepped out" on her marriage that might be able to give MW some good advice. She left because her Ex was a leech and a lazy a** but she believes that having male friends in that way outside of your marriage is so damaging.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Lilly_daddy said:


> I tried once before to get MW to read articles by well known MC specialists but she said that none of it applied to her. she seemed generally angry that she would be categorized that way and found it to be an insult. I am going to print some stuff out for her to read in the hope that it helps to make her see exactly what I'm trying to tell her. *We do have a neighbour that "stepped out" on her marriage that might be able to give MW some good advice. She left because her Ex was a leech and a lazy a*** but she believes that having male friends in that way outside of your marriage is so damaging.


I think having her talk to your wife is going to result in your wife telling her what a lazy leech you are and getting tips on how to get away with cheating.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Perhaps that might be the case. She had come over with an article she printed off for me to give to MW detailing the rules of opposite sex friendships. I believe her intentions were genuine. She stepped out on the marriage..yes and she admitted it to me as something she did that was wrong. She has since become good friends with her ex and there was admittedly some fault in the infidelity area from the two of them.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My Wife's Married Male Friend*



Lilly_daddy said:


> My Wife has never been one to want to share me with anyone. Her and I have spoken about it before and she couldn't even handle the thought of me being with another woman so an "open marriage" situation would be totally out. The OM she was friends with is 8 years older than I am. I'm not sure if this is a mid-life thing for her or not. The 7 year itch as they call it....well we've been married for 8 years...


My wife and I have been married over 20 years. In that time she has had many itches. But I'm the only one allowed to scratch them. You need to plainly state your view of marriage and your boundaries. Simply say to her that if she had another view then she is free to find someone who shares that view with her after you divorce. Tell her you are not controlling her. She is free to pursue other men and you are free to pursue divorce.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My Wife's Married Male Friend*



Lilly_daddy said:


> How does one get someone to see the point that they are trying to get across but still keep the integrity and maturity level of the subject matter solid? I have tried and tried to drill this into My Wife's brain that it wasn't just the OM...it's "All Men"


Do your honestly think she doesn't know? She knows, she just wants you to believe she is naive. It's a game and she is making up the rules as you go. You can't win that game. You need to change it up and start playing your game. You need to learn how to deal with fitness (sh!t) tests.

If she says she's going out say okay but I won't be here when you get back.

If she says she's going to have male friends and you can't tell her what to do say okay I'll start making female friends to go out with.

If she says you're controlling hold open the door for her.

Your frame should be this: "I want you but I don't need you."


----------



## CH

bfree said:


> Your frame should be this: "I want you but I don't need you."


BINGO, give this man a cigar!!!!!!!


----------



## tom67

bfree said:


> Do your honestly think she doesn't know? She knows, she just wants you to believe she is naive. It's a game and she is making up the rules as you go. You can't win that game. You need to change it up and start playing your game. You need to learn how to deal with fitness (sh!t) tests.
> 
> If she says she's going out say okay but I won't be here when you get back.
> 
> If she says she's going to have male friends and you can't tell her what to do say okay I'll start making female friends to go out with.
> 
> If she says you're controlling hold open the door for her.
> 
> Your frame should be this: "I want you but I don't need you."


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## krismimo

People will treat you the way you ALLOW them to treat you. AGAIN I ask... what CONSEQUENCES has she been dealt since her indiscrections? Because if she hasn't not only will she not do anything you ask of her but he will continue to behave the way she sees fit.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

My Wife has had consequences for her actions. She rarely gets to go anywhere on her own and I have told her time and time again that she is not allowed to engage in any alone conversation with ANY MEN with whom she intends on being friends with. She definitely knows my boundaries because I express them to her and she tells me daily what she is doing and I get asked if she can do things more often than before. I am standing firm in what I will and won't tolerate. She knows she is walking a thin line.


----------



## kenmoore14217

Lilly, you've been on this site for four years now. In those four years you have been setting the boundaries, laying the law down on what you want to see happen, wondering why your wife doesn't get it! Lilly, she DOES get it, YOU don't.

I'm a firm believer in TOUGH LOVE. What that means is you have to be willing to blow something up to repair it. No more Duck Tape, no more bubble gum, just a hard core fix.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I first signed on here four years ago yes but have been far away for some time and have not posted anything in probably well over two years. I first revisited this site just this year when I first had this issue. Before that all was good. This issue is brand new to me and just surfaced when MW made these friends. Now it just seems to me like because we never had this issue before the topic of opposite sex friends never really came up. Now she just sees it as a control issue because of how I had to deal with it. It's new territory to me in the sense that I never knew that MW would ever be this way with someone else. I never thought I would feel like I was basically being replaced with someone else to participate in the activities that MW loved to do the most. It felt like all the hard work I had put in keeping everyone financially supported was for nothing because here we were in a new house and I was trying to create some new memories with MW and she decides to go and do things with someone else. All of my actions have been driven by an urge to keep my family together when they should have been aimed solely at making MW see what she would be losing if the family were broken part by what her actions have created.


----------



## kenmoore14217

Lilly_daddy said:


> All of my actions have been driven by an urge to keep my family together when they should have been aimed solely at making MW see what she would be losing if the family were broken part by what her actions have created.


:toast:


----------



## bfree

Lilly_daddy said:


> I first signed on here four years ago yes but have been far away for some time and have not posted anything in probably well over two years. I first revisited this site just this year when I first had this issue. Before that all was good. This issue is brand new to me and just surfaced when MW made these friends. Now it just seems to me like because we never had this issue before the topic of opposite sex friends never really came up. Now she just sees it as a control issue because of how I had to deal with it. It's new territory to me in the sense that I never knew that MW would ever be this way with someone else. I never thought I would feel like I was basically being replaced with someone else to participate in the activities that MW loved to do the most. It felt like all the hard work I had put in keeping everyone financially supported was for nothing because here we were in a new house and I was trying to create some new memories with MW and she decides to go and do things with someone else. All of my actions have been driven by an urge to keep my family together when they should have been aimed solely at making MW see what she would be losing if the family were broken part by what her actions have created.


And since you cannot control her (because nobody can really control anyone else) what actions are you going to take in order to make her see what she would be losing if she continues on this path.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Lilly, you are far more invested in the relationship than your wife is. That's why she's not responding the way you want her to.

The 180 is not a gimmick to trick her to come around. It is a lifestyle change that you will live first for YOU, then her. It is, in a sense, doing exactly what she's already doing.

Please listen to these guys. I know it's counter-intuitive to a Nice Guy, but you MUST be willing to lose the relationship to have any chance of saving it.

A marriage is like a fragile goblet being held up by one finger on both sides - one is yours, and one is your wife's. If either of you pulls your finger away, the goblet drops.

Your wife is unwilling to hold up her end of the deal, so you are first trying to over-perform on your side of the goblet, and when that didn't work, you are now trying for grab her hand and MAKE her hold her end. You can't. You have to be willing to let go of your end, too, to see if she really wants it over, or if that sudden realization, that you won't hold both sides up forever, jolts her back to reality.

I know the language was metaphorical, but it's the clearest way I can describe it. Marriage HAS to be a decision by two parties, not by one desperately trying to hold things together.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

InlandTXMM said:


> Lilly, you are far more invested in the relationship that your wife is. That's why she's not responding the way you want her to.
> 
> The 180 is not a gimmick to trick her to come around. It is a lifestyle change that you will live first for YOU, then her. It is, in a sense, doing exactly what she's already doing.
> 
> Please listen to these guys. I know it's counter-intuitive to a Nice Guy, but you MUST be willing to lose the relationship to have any chance of saving it.
> 
> A marriage is like a fragile goblet being held up by one finger on both sides - one is yours, and one is your wife's. If either of you pulls your finger away, the goblet drops.
> 
> 
> Your wife is unwilling to hold up her end of the deal, so you are first trying to over-perform on your side of the goblet, and when that didn't work, you are now trying for grab her hand and MAKE her hold her end. You can't. You have to be willing to let go of your end, too, to see if she really wants it over, or if that sudden realization, that you won't hold both sides up forever, jolts her back to reality.
> 
> I know the language was kind of metaphorical, but it's the clearest way I can describe it. Marriage HAS to be a decision by two parties, not by one desperately trying to hold things together.



I actually think your metaphor rings true...thank you:smthumbup:

I plan on having a mature and very astute conversation with MW this evening. I need her to fully realize what her actions have resulted in and what it has made me feel like. I now feel like I have to constantly monitor what she does. I always think about what she might be doing when she's not at home. This has begun to eat away at the kind of person I was before all this started and I despise what it has made me into.


----------



## workindad

OP, the advice on this page is spot on. Re-read Bfree's post again. 


Also, get to work on the 180 for yourself!

Good luck
WD


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Lilly_daddy said:


> I actually think your metaphor rings true...thank you:smthumbup:
> 
> I plan on having a mature and very astute conversation with MW this evening. I need her to fully realize what her actions have resulted in and what it has made me feel like. I now feel like I have to constantly monitor what she does. I always think about what she might be doing when she's not at home. This has begun to eat away at the kind of person I was before all this started and I despise what it has made me into.


Let me ask you a question? How many times have you done this and the outcome is exactly the same? You are only fooling yourself by adding it will be "a mature and very astute conversation."

I can go get the quotes, you'll be amazed at how this "new stand firm post" is a reworded version of all of your other conversations. You wife is going to wait you out. It's worked before. This is EA number two, she knows she can wait a few weeks or months.


----------



## sandc

On the control issue... A fence is used to control. You can look at it as keeping you trapped or as keeping the bad guys out of your yard.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My Wife's Married Male Friend*



Lilly_daddy said:


> I actually think your metaphor rings true...thank you:smthumbup:
> 
> I plan on having a mature and very astute conversation with MW this evening. I need her to fully realize what her actions have resulted in and what it has made me feel like. I now feel like I have to constantly monitor what she does. I always think about what she might be doing when she's not at home. This has begun to eat away at the kind of person I was before all this started and I despise what it has made me into.


Make sure you tell her that although you still love her her actions have made you question whether the two of you should remain married. If she doesn't know the extent of the damage and how close she is to becoming a divorced woman she will continue to justify her behavior and take your concerns lightly.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Lilly_daddy said:


> I actually think your metaphor rings true...thank you:smthumbup:
> 
> I plan on having a mature and very astute conversation with MW this evening. I need her to fully realize what her actions have resulted in and what it has made me feel like. I now feel like I have to constantly monitor what she does. I always think about what she might be doing when she's not at home. This has begun to eat away at the kind of person I was before all this started and I despise what it has made me into.


I know exactly what you mean. You are operating from a position of fear - fear of loss, fear of being alone. We've all been there. But that fear is not helpful to you and is repulsive to your wife.

After my wife's A, and the initial shock and panic I felt, I told her in R that while I love her and want to be with her, I would never again allow myself to NEED her.


----------



## InlandTXMM

bfree said:


> Make sure you tell her that although you still love her her actions have made you question whether the two of you should remain married. If she doesn't know the extent of the damage and how close she is to becoming a divorced woman she will continue to justify her behavior and take your concerns lightly.


EXACTLY. She needs to see you pull your finger away from the glass. And mean it.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My Wife's Married Male Friend*



InlandTXMM said:


> I would never again allow myself to NEED her.


That's exactly it!


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I am finding the information contained within this page to be most informative and insightful. I have to keep in mind that what has occurred between MW and I has not occurred before and whenever we have had a situation where I have felt slighted in any way I have rectified the behaviour that I find to be the cause of the situation. 

When I began working two jobs I found a way to make it work with my kids. I found the time to spend with them and MW. It allowed me to finally purchase a new home for us and allowed us to begin a new life together. 

And now this has happened. It has forced me to become what I never thought I would be which is a controlling husband. I never wanted to smother my wife with rules but now I find myself becoming just that. Can't say I like it too much. Then again I never thought I would have caught her sexting an ex-bf in the first place so tit for tat...


----------



## Lilly_daddy

MW is aware of the fact that I do not in any way, shape or form NEED her. I told her on many occasions people do not need other people to make them who they are. They compliment you as a person and as a couple but they do not replace your individual identity.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Good, but the next step is to show her. Today I punished my granddaughter. I didn't want to, but she was being to noisy. 
I told her, she didn't listen.
I told her again, she didn't listen.
I showed her, turned the TV off made her lay down quietly in her room, she listened.

She's been quiet ever since, when I let her watch TV again.

Your wife hears you, but right now you are at the telling point. You need to get to the action and back up your words part. No, I'm not wanting divorce, but your wife doesn't get it.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Good, but the next step is to show her. Today I punished my granddaughter. I didn't want to, but she was being to noisy.
> I told her, she didn't listen.
> I told her again, she didn't listen.
> I showed her, turned the TV off made her lay down quietly in her room, she listened.
> 
> She's been quiet ever since, when I let her watch TV again.
> 
> Your wife hears you, but right now you are at the telling point. You need to get t the action and back up your words part.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Totally Correct on all counts. This week MW decided she wants to go back to work. She told me she wants to help get the debt paid down and have some savings. She was in insurance. I feel this is a good thing because I can quite working weekends and we can actually start doing more family things. 

The cautious side of me tells me that perhaps she wants to have a separate life on her own away from the house and away from the kids so she can feel free to perhaps keep certain things to herself. It's been nine years since she has had an actual career and it scares the s**t of me to think of some of the opportunities she might have in that sort of environment. 

This is just going to be another place where I will have to make her see that certain things in the work place are equally as innapropriate as they are when we are at home. Just another headache!


----------



## InlandTXMM

Initially after the A, though my wife always worked outside the home once our kids were in school, I would actually trigger just because she was at work. That's silly, but it was true. It's probably because her A was work-related (month-long business trip).

Lilly, this is what we're saying about control - you are afraid to let her be herself because you are afraid she will walk off if you let her off the leash. I can promise you, if you keep her on a leash, she will CHEW her way off of it. You cannot control her. If she goes back to work and cheats, she does so. So far keeping her home hasn't stopped her from cheating either.

Let her get back to work. It'll boost her self-esteem, lower her boredom. "Idle hands are the devil's playground."

BTW, none of this has anything to do with the OM or her need to seek attention / approval from men other than you. That's a whole different issue. Don't cloud the two.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

InlandTXMM said:


> Let her get back to work. It'll boost her self-esteem, lower her boredom. "Idle hands are the devil's playground."
> 
> BTW, none of this has anything to do with the OM or her need to seek attention / approval from men other than you. That's a whole different issue. Don't cloud the two.


Exactly. Don't let this improper friends/EA issue spill into other issues because then you are being controlling.

If she does get a job, it helps pay down the debt and then she leaves so what? I know that's harsh, but do you want a partner or a slave? You make your boundaries known, you show or detail the consequences then you move forward. Right now, you are on a hamster wheel, you are doing all of this running and getting nowhere. You need to step away, have that final talk and let her pass or fail.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Yes I fully understand that. I have no reference point to make me think she will engage in any innapropriate behaviour at all while in a job setting. It's a financial thing as well as a commitment thing. MW has very little consistency when it comes to follow through. I feel as though she might not complete these courses and she wants me to get a 1k loan so she can apply and take the test by April. I have no issues with her having a job. As a matter of fact it will give me freedom from the weekends and may perhaps have a very positive effect on our lives by allowing us to take vacations and have a good life.


----------



## InlandTXMM

I think at 31 pages of talking, it's time for you to take some action and then report back how things are going. There is very little more talking about this can do.

Let us know how things are progressing!


----------



## Lilly_daddy

InlandTXMM said:


> I think at 31 pages of talking, it's time for you to take some action and then report back how things are going. There is very little more talking about this can do.
> 
> Let us know how things are progressing!


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


Will Touch Base and give a Sit Rep later...


----------



## TRy

Lilly_daddy said:


> The cautious side of me tells me that perhaps she wants to have a separate life on her own away from the house and away from the kids so she can feel free to perhaps keep certain things to herself.


 You have tried to discuss with her reasonable opposite sex friends (OSF) boundaries. Rather than working out mutually agreed upon OSF boundaries with you, she has rejected the whole concept of having such boundaries. This has required you to unilaterally establish these OSF boundaries on your own. She is now openly hostile to the very existence of these boundaries, and is temporarily observing them because, since you are the only breadwinner, she feels that she has to. Her now wanting to get a job after all these years is to empower her to be able to say no to the boundaries. 



Lilly_daddy said:


> This is just going to be another place where I will have to make her see that certain things in the work place are equally as innapropriate as they are when we are at home.


 For stay at home moms the two primary sources of affair partners are men from their past, and neighbors. As a stay at home mom your wife touched both of those dangers. The primary source of affair partners for people that hold jobs, are coworkers. The odds are very high that your wife will touch that danger too unless she embraces mutually agreed upon boundaries prior to her crossing the line at work.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I don't totally agree about the co-worker thing because when MW was in insurance when we were engaged and she never would keep anything away from me. She would ask me to attend workplace functions and would even introduce me to male co-workers when I was there to pick her up from time to time. As for her getting a job..well yeah part of me thinks she might be up to that and wanting to cover it up by using the excuse that it's for financial reasons. I can really have no sure fire way of really knowing and will have to give her the option to go back to work if she chooses. I cannot nor do I want her home for any longer than she should be for the simple reason that I really need my weekends back.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

She definitely did gravitate towards those two tempting elements..I agree totally.


----------



## Philat

Lilly_daddy said:


> *I don't totally agree about the co-worker thing because when MW was in insurance when we were engaged and she never would keep anything away from me. * She would ask me to attend workplace functions and would even introduce me to male co-workers when I was there to pick her up from time to time. As for her getting a job..well yeah part of me thinks she might be up to that and wanting to cover it up by using the excuse that it's for financial reasons. I can really have no sure fire way of really knowing and will have to give her the option to go back to work if she chooses. I cannot nor do I want her home for any longer than she should be for the simple reason that I really need my weekends back.


That was then. Trust me and about a gazillion others here on TAM. Workplace affairs (especially EA) are a dime a dozen. Keep your antennae up.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Oh It's up..and scanning at all times. My Wife always tells me where she is and I have began going with her on some of the errands she runs because there always seemed to be an issue with her getting back on time.


----------



## movin on

I'd still var the house. Make sure she doesn't have someone for a visit while your at work and kids are in school
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lilly_daddy

VAR's are en route. They were ordered a few days ago.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Philat said:


> That was then. Trust me and about a gazillion others here on TAM. Workplace affairs (especially EA) are a dime a dozen. Keep your antennae up.


On the other hand, if worse comes to worst, it's good if she has her own income.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Nucking Futs said:


> On the other hand, if worse comes to worst, it's good if she has her own income.


I was thinking the same thing...:lol:


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Today My Wife was getting my daughter ready for school. She left her purse downstairs which is sometimes odd for her since she's gotten into the habit of having it with her wherever she goes. Today she didn't so I had a quick peek inside. I found a pay-as-you-go phone inside. I quickly removed the phone which was inside a black and white makeup bag. I then proceeded to hide the bag in the basement and kept my cool..like a cucumber and watched the show. 

When she first noticed it was gone I was making my daughters lunch for the day. She was all over the house, looking in the drawers, in the closets and she turned her purse upside down. She asked me if I had gone into her purse. I confessed my innocence and she bought it. I asked her what she was looking for. She tells me she had her friends phone because my computer is out of commission and she was using the internet to look up some stuff with the wifi. It was a public mobile phone and i took a look at the invoice. It was activated on September 27th but according to the phone number it's not even active. Her friend hasn't been using her phone for some time since she hasn't paid the bill. I played it cool and told her i would help her find it when she came back. The phone is pretty much a paper weight and doesn't even work for calls or text. I'm going to play it dumb for the next couple of days. She's suppose to give the phone back to her either today or tomorrow. I also got confirmation that it's her phone.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I ended up giving the phone back by pretending it was under a bag on the front bench by the front door. In doing this I believe it will make my wife think I am perhaps none the wiser to the whole burner phone idea.


----------



## Philat

_ I also got confirmation that it's her phone. _

Whose phone is it, your W's or her friend's?


----------



## Tobyboy

Busted!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thunderstruck

Lilly_daddy said:


> I ended up giving the phone back by pretending it was under a bag on the front bench by the front door. In doing this I believe it will make my wife think I am perhaps none the wiser to the whole burner phone idea.


Just going by what you described, she'd be stupid to not think that you removed the phone from her purse.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

The Phone belongs to her friend. I was on the phone with her and asked her. My Wife flipped out when she saw that it was missing. She kept saying she can't afford to pay her $200 to replace the phone. Nonetheless MW didn't seem to suspect a thing given her usual reaction to things when she thinks I've done something. She usually has a fit. This time she seemed more concerned with finding the phone rather than giving me s**t for removing it from her purse.


----------



## thunderstruck

If I was cheating and my W found a burner phone in my stuff, I'd be careful with my reaction as well. Hope I'm wrong, but this "friend's phone" shyte sounds like...shyte.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Thing about that is that her friend has been cheated on before and it not likely to be the one to be helping my wife further her efforts by lying for her. Nonetheless the point is well taken and that is precisely why I gave the phone back. I want to see if she actually gives it back or if she is using it under the false pretenses and actually tops the phone up to use it. I will have to employ further methods of stealth in order to see if she still has the phone a week from now. If she does then I shall employ the proper measures to deal with it.


----------



## Nucking Futs

thunderstruck said:


> If I was cheating and my W found a burner phone in my stuff, I'd be careful with my reaction as well. Hope I'm wrong, but this "friend's phone" shyte sounds like...shyte.


So I guess now you're looking for a sim card.


----------



## Tobyboy

How long had your wife have the burner phone? Did you locate the charge chord yet? You do know they're both lying right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc

Nucking Futs said:


> So I guess now you're looking for a sim card.


Bingo.

Wonder who's coaching her?


----------



## Tobyboy

Also....change the password to the wifi.....if she's really using the phone for internet she'll ask for the new password.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Im Gonna be turning the wireless completely off. If she really wanted to use it then she'll ask. As for the sim card. The phone was locked. Will I be able to get any information off of it? It's from a different carrier.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Charge cord was inside the bag with the phone. Thing is she doesn't know I looked inside. She doesn't know I know all the accessories are inside the bag. She basically took the complete opposite approach to the entire situation rather than fly off the handle. I'm a little perplexed at her reaction.


----------



## Tobyboy

Lilly_daddy said:


> Im Gonna be turning the wireless completely off. If she really wanted to use it then she'll ask. As for the sim card. The phone was locked. Will I be able to get any information off of it? It's from a different carrier.


Dude!!!! You had the smoking gun in your hands!!! Why didn't you make your WW unlock it? Was the phone charged? Did it have a sims card? What was the phones brand and model? Geezz,,


----------



## Lilly_daddy

The Phone had no charge to it and I was very short on time. The Phone was a Kyocera. I tried to turn it on. it wouldn't turn on for me.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I'm pretty sure it had no charge to it. I will have a chance to recover it at a later time. She won't even know what's happening. I will remove the sim card and attempt to have it scanned.


----------



## Tobyboy

Lilly_daddy said:


> I'm pretty sure it had no charge to it. I will have a chance to recover it at a later time. She won't even know what's happening. I will remove the sim card and attempt to have it scanned.


In the mean time.....VAR!!!


----------



## Lilly_daddy

yes I agree. I'm going to be keeping a very close eye on things. I'm going to be following up on the burner phone. I'm gonna see if it's been returned or not and then if Not I will be confronting MW on her activity.


----------



## thunderstruck

Lilly_daddy said:


> I'm pretty sure it had no charge to it. I will have a chance to recover it at a later time. She won't even know what's happening. I will remove the sim card and attempt to have it scanned.


My guess is...you'll never see that phone again. It's probably in pieces in a dumptster somewhere.


----------



## sandc

thunderstruck said:


> My guess is...you'll never see that phone again. It's probably in pieces in a dumptster somewhere.


Word. :iagree:

She is being coached by someone. At the very least she'll hide the phone better. And a wifi connection is all she needs to communicate with whomever she's communicating with. 

This is a deep rabbit hole methinks.


----------



## tom67

sandc said:


> Word. :iagree:
> 
> She is being coached by someone. At the very least she'll hide the phone better. And a wifi connection is all she needs to communicate with whomever she's communicating with.
> 
> This is a deep rabbit hole methinks.


Oh boy
not good.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Amazing. Signs of flagrant cheating and yet the tennis match continues. It seems OP is kind of enjoying the drama?

Correct me if I'm wrong, Lilly, but... ???

I am astonished that you had the phone and charger - the SMOKING GUN - and did not withhold it until you could see what's on it. It's almost like you don't want to learn the truth. Why even look for evidence, if when you find it, you are too afraid to use it?

If it was a friend's phone, then the friend is helping to facilitate the affair. I strongly suspect the friend was simply asked to cover for her and tell you it was their phone, when it was your wife's.

Also, I don't understand what you mean when you say you are going to be "keeping a very close eye on things". How, exactly? So far you are finding concrete evidence of infidelity - you find the Holy Grail of cheating evidence, and you give it back. (She doesn't believe for a minute it fell out of her purse, BTW. She knows you took it.) 

How are you going to be keeping an eye on anything, when you keep tipping her off to what you know?

The burner phone will never be seen again. And she'll never bring the next one home, either. You will find it hidden in her car. You now have only the VAR left. How is that going, BTW? You were supposed to have those in place by now, if memory serves.


----------



## workindad

My XW would have probably went out and picked up another Kyocera burner phone, scratched it up a bit to make it look old and switched the two. Then left it for me to do do whatever I wanted to with it. Or perhaps she would have switched the sim card. Either way, she would have used the opportunity to dupe me if I would have allowed it.


----------



## tom67

InlandTXMM said:


> Amazing. Signs of flagrant cheating and yet the tennis match continues. It seems OP is kind of enjoying the drama?
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, Lilly, but... ???
> 
> I am astonished that you had the phone and charger - the SMOKING GUN - and did not withhold it until you could see what's on it. It's almost like you don't want to learn the truth.
> 
> If it was a friend's phone, then the friend is helping to facilitate the affair. I strongly suspect the friend was simply asked to cover for her and tell you it was their phone, when it was your wife's.
> 
> Also, I don't understand what you mean when you say you are going to be "keeping a very close eye on things". How, exactly? So far you are finding concrete evidence of infidelity - you HAVE your eye on the prize, and you give it back. How are you going to be keeping an eye on anything, when you keep tipping her off to what you know?
> 
> The burner phone will never be seen again. And she'll never bring the next one home, either. You will find it hidden in her car or at work. You now have only the VAR left.


Is this worth salvaging?


----------



## InlandTXMM

tom67 said:


> Is this worth salvaging?


I'm not sure. 34 pages of talk is all I see so far.

At least we know now why the wife isn't invested in the marriage. She's banging the OM. OP's weakness is never going to bring her back. She's committing adultery while he plays cat and mouse.

She's gone, dude. If you won't fight for your marriage, who will? She won't be coming back unless there is a strong man to come back to.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Don't kid yourself- your wife knows she's busted, OP. She knows damn well who had the phone. She's waiting to see if you are man enough that she should worry about it.

You do nothing this time, and you'll never regain her respect.

Stop playing this childish game of hide and seek with your own wife.


----------



## weightlifter

LD is doing fine. Not everyone is a confront now person. Except what inland said. Shoulda played dumb longer to get into the phone.

What is the status of your vars? What brand did you buy? Where are you putting them? You need this done asap. Need var instructions? Just ask.


----------



## InlandTXMM

I would lay money down that there are no VARs in place.


----------



## tom67

InlandTXMM said:


> I would lay money down that there are no VARs in place.


I hope not but either way he has gotten great advice here I wish him the best but I'm moving on.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I have a VAR in my car as we speak (ICDPX333) model from Sony. Mostly because I don't believe for one minute that she was telling me the truth at all about the phone. I do believe it is her phone and I'm sure she knows that at this point. I did speak with her friend and she told me that the phone is inactive. She told me her and her boyfriend have had both their phones shut off. I have even more gut feelings that something it totally not right with this whole situation, even more than before. She is either using the phone to text the OM or it's someone else. I also plan on grabbing her purse so I can go through it while she's sleeping. 

I'm simply trying to remain as stoic as possible in order to gather..gather and gather. I plan on listening to the VAR this week but We were in the car a lot over the last two days so I will have to sift through the noise. Listening to a VAR is scary because when you hear something that you suspect might be evidence and you keep listening it's very upsetting. So far I have just listened to samples from my cell phone but the reception is very clear. I was only able to get one VAR for now. I can either switch it from the house to the car but I think keeping it in the car might be better. I have velcro and duct tape keeping it secured to the hardware beneath the drivers seat. Only time will tell.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I can understand the reluctance in some members here in thinking I'm not as Gung ho in having it out with MW right after finding the phone. I was trying to listen to her to see if perhaps she was telling me the truth because of all the s**t we've been through to honestly jeopardize all that still at this point just seems so ludicrous to me but I guess I will never understand the mind of someone like that...:scratchhead:


----------



## InlandTXMM

Lilly_daddy said:


> I can understand the reluctance in some members here in thinking I'm not as Gung ho in having it out with MW right after finding the phone. I was trying to listen to her to see if perhaps she was telling me the truth because of all the s**t we've been through to honestly jeopardize all that still at this point just seems so ludicrous to me but I guess I will never understand the mind of someone like that...:scratchhead:


You say you want to gather evidence, but you GAVE THE PHONE BACK! You PASSED on the evidence, not GATHERED it.

OP, you are personifying the phenomenon called "holding out hope".

Maybe we should take a different approach with you. IF / WHEN you have gathered enough evidence, and summon the courage to examine it and accept its findings, there are at best 3 possibilities:

1) She's engaged in an affair and has taken it underground. (My guess, 70% chance of this.)
2) She was once in an affair and it as stopped to the best of your knowledge. (25%)
3) There was not enough to call it an affair, but rather a grossly inappropriate friendship. (5%)

What are your three concrete plans of attack for each of those scenarios?

So far you continue to leave the fate of the relationship to her. For all your bluster, you are the one panicking and returning to her the evidence of her cheating. You are the one sneaking around trying to "gather, gather, gather", instead of plan the next move.

Think carefully - one of those three scenarios is your LIFE right now. What will you do if the most likely two outcomes are what, in fact, happened?


----------



## sandc

PM Weightlifter and see if he'll listen to the VARs for you.


----------



## weightlifter

I already offered. Understand few take me up on it. Its an offer as a service as i get it. Most make do on their own. If he wants i will if not... I get it.

Btw you set it at 44k bit rate right? 8k sucks. Awful sound. All whiny. The 100k setting give huge files.


----------



## sandc

Oh well... C'est la vie.


----------



## verpin zal

weightlifter said:


> I already offered. Understand few take me up on it. Its an offer as a service as i get it. Most make do on their own. If he wants i will if not... I get it.
> 
> Btw you set it at 44k bit rate right? 8k sucks. Awful sound. All whiny. *The 100k setting give huge files.*


Drains the battery more quickly?


----------



## The Middleman

So .... Lilly_Daddy ... Did you check out the VAR?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I am going to be giving it until tomorrow after MW takes My Daughter to School. I just put it in the car on Friday. I also put the seekdroid app on my android phone in case I need gps as a back up. I also have an old android phone with a voice recorder that I will be listening to when I get home from work later tonight. I placed it under the couch by cutting a small hole in the fabric underneath and stuffing it inside the material. Surprising enough it has a very good microphone. Prior to getting the VAR I used my new lg phone and I hid it under the drivers seat. I tested it beforehand by activating it and reciting the alphabet. I used various volumes in my voice and the mic proved to be amazing. I listened to MW with My Daughter in the car and there was nothing to really get from what she was talking about but it was just a trial run anyway.


----------



## weightlifter

verpin zal said:


> Drains the battery more quickly?


No it drains the battery at a similar rate. 44K is simply balancing size vs quality. I was able to make amazing changes to 44Kbit recordings in clean up and boosts.

8K whines for lack of a better term. Also sounds distorted and tinny.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

So Far nothing on the VAR in the car. Nothing from today after she dropped my daughter off at school. I even have an old android phone that I'm using for the house. I placed it at the top of the wall unit behind the moulding at the top. It was left recording onto a 16gb sd card inside it for the entire time I am at work plus I spoke with My Wife's friend who owns the cell phone. I have convinced her to lend it to me so I can look at it. She was cheated on previously by her BF and she was on my side when it cam to the OM and his effect on my marriage so she has agreed to let me take a look at it to see if there's anything in it that I can find. She said the phone is no longer working but I still asked her if I can take a look anyway to see if there is any residual on it from web browsing. I was thinking she had used it to perhaps contact the Ex-BF but I guess I will just see what pops up.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I also have an app on my android that has turned it into a VAR. you can drop the sound threshold to being recording immediately. Just set it to auto. I have it set at 5db so it begins recording anything above that sound level. Put that onto a good android or ipod and you have instant VAR. I can even set the recording to a super high 320 bitrate and boost the mic sensitivity.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Very likely she's laying low for a while, since you very definitely tipped your hand by taking her phone and then giving it back.

I'm sure the phone was purged - you gave it back to your wife, who had time before giving it back to her friend. The phone will likely not produce any evidence - it's been scrubbed.

And I can't put my finger on it, but my "spidey-sense" is tingling about this thread. Something just doesn't feel right.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

InlandTXMM said:


> Very likely she's laying low for a while, since you very definitely tipped your hand by taking her phone and then giving it back.
> 
> I'm sure the phone was purged - you gave it back to your wife, who had time before giving it back to her friend. The phone will likely not produce any evidence - it's been scrubbed.
> 
> And I can't put my finger on it, but my "spidey-sense" is tingling about this thread. Something just doesn't feel right.


Do Tell!!!


----------



## weightlifter

I'm afraid you are in it for the long haul my friend.


----------



## FindingMyWayOut

Reading through this entire thread, there are too many red flags for her indiscretions to just stop. She is playing along and playing along nice to throw him off the scent. If she's not involved in extracurriculars right now, it won't be long before the opportunity arises. My bet is still the OM....with the time they spent together, I highly doubt it just stopped. She has a problem that doesn't just go away because LD said enough is enough. Real consequences for actions, not threats of consequences.


----------



## weightlifter

OP. What is your wife's IQ? Does she have a degree? Can't put my finger exactly on it but the closest words I can come up with is strategic misdirection.


----------



## InlandTXMM

weightlifter said:


> OP. What is your wife's IQ? Does she have a degree? Can't put my finger exactly on it but the closest words I can come up with is strategic misdirection.


See I'm getting the same "vibe". Something isn't right here.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

InlandTXMM said:


> See I'm getting the same "vibe". Something isn't right here.


Are we talking about the old magic trick with distraction. Looking at the girl in the pretty dress when you don't see them switch the real box for a fake one.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

BTW no degree and I wouldn't get you hopes up with the IQ theory. MW isn't that smart...deceptive yes but not seriously book smart. She definitely has coniving ways sbout her though.


----------



## weightlifter

Ok I still see mis-direction. Like you are looking for OM 1 photo dude and it's really the dude at work at lunch or the pool boy.

Look at my right hand! Left hook to jaw....

Sorry I call it as I see it and radar is reading oddly. Gonna hafta reread the recent red flags.


----------



## tom67

Why the heck is she mindf^cking you all the time.

Either she is in the marriage or not.

What do you want.


----------



## 6301

Why don't you just divorce her and have some peace of mind for a change? Your killing yourself over this and it seems like you'll never get out of this rut. You deserve better than this friend.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Today I had a conversation with MW. We spoke at length about things. To begin I asked her a simple question" do you know what boundaries are"? She replied by listing common boundaries such as don't sleep with anyone. She understood the context in which the question was being asked. I began to explain things to her because the idea of having personal boundaries to her seemed somewhat alien. She was under the impression that my boundaries somehow did not make sense and somehow I was making them up as I went along. I had become very angry with her previous to our conversation due to her telling me that I had no right to tell her she couldn't participate in close friendships with other men. 

Eventually the conversation was steered in the direction of her sexting episode and she was under the impression that because it was 3 and a half months ago I should just let it go because she hasn't repeated the offense. I felt like throwing a chair at her. I couldn't imagine she was telling me this s**t. I explained to her that it might have been 3 and a half months ago but it feels like 3 days ago sometimes. She didnt really seem to get it. Then I asked her if she thought it was ok to go out for coffee with the male neighbor down the street if he invited her. She said that given the way I've been with boundaries she wouldn't but normally she would not have seen a problem with it. I thought to myself that she perhaps thought that it was a given that she should be able to simply have any friend that she wanted be it male if female. This got me thinking if she was either ignorant to what boundaries are or thought that to cross a boundarie it takes more than just having a friend but that you actually have to go further with it. 

She tells me that she didn't know that when we got married she was forbidden from having male friends. I replied by telling her I didn't care as much about male friends but what I did care about was what she did with them and how close they were. I told her it was the activity she engages in with them more than the simple idea of having them as a friend. I don't know if any of it sank in or not but today I got pretty angry with her. Its getting to be much and I'm struggling with what I want out of this marriage.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Philat

Lilly_daddy said:


> Today I had a conversation with MW. We spoke at length about things. To begin I asked her a simple question" do you know what boundaries are"? She replied by listing common boundaries such as don't sleep with anyone. She understood the context in which the question was being asked. I began to explain things to her because the idea of having personal boundaries to her seemed somewhat alien. She was under the impression that my boundaries somehow did not make sense and somehow I was making them up as I went along. I had become very angry with her previous to our conversation due to her telling me that I had no right to tell her she couldn't participate in close friendships with other men.
> 
> Eventually the conversation was steered in the direction of her sexting episode and she was under the impression that because it was 3 and a half months ago I should just let it go because she hasn't repeated the offense. I felt like throwing a chair at her. I couldn't imagine she was telling me this s**t. I explained to her that it might have been 3 and a half months ago but it feels like 3 days ago sometimes. She didnt really seem to get it. Then I asked her if she thought it was ok to go out for coffee with the male neighbor down the street if he invited her. She said that given the way I've been with boundaries she wouldn't but normally she would not have seen a problem with it. I thought to myself that she perhaps thought that it was a given that she should be able to simply have any friend that she wanted be it male if female. This got me thinking if she was either ignorant to what boundaries are or thought that to cross a boundarie it takes more than just having a friend but that you actually have to go further with it.
> 
> She tells me that she didn't know that when we got married she was forbidden from having male friends. I replied by telling her I didn't care as much about male friends but what I did care about was what she did with them and how close they were. I told her it was the activity she engages in with them more than the simple idea of having them as a friend. I don't know if any of it sank in or not but today I got pretty angry with her. *Its getting to be much and I'm struggling with what I want out of this marriage.*
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Geez. Sounds like you're starting completely from scratch with Appropriate Behavior 101, and a remedial course at that. Maybe what you want out of the marriage is.... out of the marriage.


----------



## BK23

She's either dumb as a rock or she thinks you are. I vote for option 2.


----------



## TDSC60

Put it as simple as possible.

If she spends time alone with another male, no matter what the situation or reason, then it is called a "date" and if she "dates" other men she cannot remain married to you.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

It definitely sounds like this kind of thing would normally go without saying. I would never accept any sort of invite with another female purely because I know MW would have an issue with it. I told her I only agreed to let her spend time out with the OM because I felt guilty for her being the SAHM and not having a life outside of the house. A decision I told her I deeply regret because it conveyed a false sense of how flexible I had become in letting her form a friendship with anyone..male or female.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## verpin zal

I can't help but notice from your last post, seems to me like your wife is somehow *insisting* to have male friends, almost to a point like she can't do without them.

"You can't tell me not to have male friends"
"I didn't know it was wrong to befriend menfolk"
"Of course I would go with that neighbor for a coffee. What's the discussion?"

I guess it shouldn't be so hard to say "I hear you and I'm willing to respect your boundaries", especially when married. Something is terribly wrong with your wife and men around her.


----------



## TDSC60

Lilly_daddy said:


> It definitely sounds like this kind of thing would normally go without saying. I would never accept any sort of invite with another female purely because I know MW would have an issue with it. I told her I only agreed to let her spend time out with the OM because I felt guilty for her being the SAHM and not having a life outside of the house. A decision I told her I deeply regret because it conveyed a false sense of how flexible I had become in letting her form a friendship with anyone..male or female.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


It sounds like you need to "say it" to her in a short, clear statement that cannot be misunderstood.

Never be under the impression that anything goes without saying, even in everyday life. What is evident to you could be totally out of left field to someone else.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

TDSC60 said:


> Put it as simple as possible.
> 
> If she spends time alone with another male, no matter what the situation or reason, then it is called a "date" and if she "dates" other men she cannot remain married to you.


I find the above summation quite accurate. MW told me that before she would have been ok with having the neighbour (who is male W/ a wife and two kids) invite her out for coffee but after seeing how I am now with her doing things like that she would not accept an invite. I told her the same thing would apply for me if I had a female ask me out as well. As a matter of fact I wouldn't even go with another woman..I would suggest that she ask My Wife to go instead. I have absolutely no intention of allowing MW to interact with other men in that way again nor should she "miss that" from her life. I certainly do not miss the companionship from another woman. It's the reason I got married in the first place..to have only one woman in my life.


----------



## bfree

One thing I would always stress when you talk to her about boundaries. The boundaries you mention are not hers. They are yours. She is free to have as many male friends as she likes. Just as you are free to decide that you no longer want to have a wife that has close male friends. The boundary is not hers. The boundary is what you expect from your wife. She had the freedom to vacate that title anytime she wants. Just as you are free to fire her from that job if you feel she is no longer suited for that role.


----------



## sandc

*Re: Re: My Wife's Married Male Friend*



Lilly_daddy said:


> I find the above summation quite accurate. MW told me that before she would have been ok with having the neighbour (who is male W/ a wife and two kids) invite her out for coffee but after seeing how I am now with her doing things like that she would not accept an invite. I told her the same thing would apply for me if I had a female ask me out as well. As a matter of fact I wouldn't even go with another woman..I would suggest that she ask My Wife to go instead. I have absolutely no intention of allowing MW to interact with other men in that way again nor should she "miss that" from her life. I certainly do not miss the companionship from another woman. It's the reason I got married in the first place..to have only one woman in my life.


Crikey, one is enough!


----------



## Hicks

You should not be having these conversations.

I'll throw out an alternate scenario. Your wife knows what she is doing is wrong and improper in a marriage. She is watching to see if you react in such a way as to allow it or to make faithfulness as a condition of marriage. IF you allow it her to have friendhships with men, she has asserted HER authority over you in the marriage and will never respect you. If you don't allow it, you pass the test.


----------



## InlandTXMM

bfree said:


> One thing I would always stress when you talk to her about boundaries. The boundaries you mention are not hers. They are yours. She is free to have as many male friends as she likes. Just as you are free to decide that you no longer want to have a wife that has close male friends. The boundary is not hers. The boundary is what you expect from your wife. She had the freedom to vacate that title anytime she wants. Just as you are free to fire her from that job if you feel she is no longer suited for that role.


This is what you will finally have to come to realize. You cannot control another person's behavior. You can only control what you will tolerate from people in your life.

Your wife sees no issue with close male friends. She is seeking some validation and connection from them that she either doesn't want, or can't feel, from you as her husband. I can promise you, this will happen again. Unmet needs don't just go away. And this is twice so far that you know of. 

The only way forward is to tell her any social alone time with other men is dating, and dating other people while married is not going to be tolerated.

Then you have to build up in yourself the fortitude that you WILL NOT WAVER from that boundary, even if it means the marriage must end. It is only when she sees an unshakable conviction in you that she will respect that conviction. But if you're waffling, she wins.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

This week MW and I had it out big time. I am sadly getting used to weekly conflicts between her and I and it's making me nuts. This week I was listening to the VAR's from the car....Nothing! :scratchhead:

She was totally out the door and back home in twenty minutes after dropping My Daughter off at school. There was music in the recording of course and then the sounds of little voices talking about barbie dolls and dora and such...but nothing other than that. I even checked the phone records and I managed to take a look at the phone that I found in MW's purse. It was clean...well cleaned anyway. So I've either got a Wife that is behaving and not up to much or she is more secretive than I once thought. Either way She's been quiet all week and nothing has occurred.

The conflict we had was about her telling me that I had no right to monitor her and that she was going to be getting her own phone contract when hers is up. I told her if she wanted to do that then I would not be paying for it nor would I be giving her the money for it. I told her she pretty much gave up that privilege when she got caught on her phone sexting the ex!

I've gotten better at playing it cool when it comes to gathering some information. I got a number from her phone records to a land line near our house. I have yet to check it out. The number gave me an address I plan on checking out today after work. I'm going to surveill the house and see who lives there. I hope my finding aren't too disturbing.


----------



## InlandTXMM

She is still unrepentant. You can't reconcile the marriage until she is.


----------



## bfree

InlandTXMM said:


> This is what you will finally have to come to realize. You cannot control another person's behavior. You can only control what you will tolerate from people in your life.
> 
> Your wife sees no issue with close male friends. She is seeking some validation and connection from them that she either doesn't want, or can't feel, from you as her husband. I can promise you, this will happen again. Unmet needs don't just go away. And this is twice so far that you know of.
> 
> The only way forward is to tell her any social alone time with other men is dating, and dating other people while married is not going to be tolerated.
> 
> Then you have to build up in yourself the fortitude that you WILL NOT WAVER from that boundary, even if it means the marriage must end. It is only when she sees an unshakable conviction in you that she will respect that conviction. But if you're waffling, she wins.


:iagree:

Also, this is the time that you should broach the subject of IC, She needs to figure out why it is that she needs male attention. Let's face it, most women try to get attention from males other than their husbands. They do so in the way they dress, the makeup they wear, and the way they act. But its usually more subtle so that other men may look at them, even compliment them but that's as far as it goes. If it crosses a woman's boundary then they need to cut it off right then and there. Women who have male friends need to have extremely strong boundaries and even then its not always enough. A woman that has weak boundairies cannot have male friends at all. A woman like that doesn't actually have male friends...they have orbitors. And that's not healthy if they want to maintain a long term relationship of any kind.


----------



## Tobyboy

I don't know if my PM to you went through, but anyway ... Here are two free sites that might give you a name to go with the phone#. 

Namefromphone.com 
and 
Tnid.us


----------



## InlandTXMM

bfree said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Also, this is the time that you should broach the subject of IC, She needs to figure out why it is that she needs male attention. Let's face it, most women try to get attention from males other than their husbands. They do so in the way they dress, the makeup they wear, and the way they act. But its usually more subtle so that other men may look at them, even compliment them but that's as far as it goes. If it crosses a woman's boundary then they need to cut it off right then and there. Women who have male friends need to have extremely strong boundaries and even then its not always enough. A woman that has weak boundairies cannot have male friends at all. A woman like that doesn't actually have male friends...they have orbitors. And that's not healthy if they want to maintain a long term relationship of any kind.



Ugh. Orbiters. In addition to my wife's EA whatever last year, I've also had to c*ckblock three other guys (all co-workers too), including one who tried texting her right in the middle of our 19th anniversary dinner.

When a woman is seeking attention, it's like she's chummed the water. The sharks can sense it miles off.


----------



## bfree

InlandTXMM said:


> Ugh. Orbiters. In addition to my wife's EA whatever last year, I've also had to c*ckblock three other guys (all co-workers too), including one who tried texting her right in the middle of our 19th anniversary dinner.
> 
> When a woman is seeking attention, it's like she's chummed the water. The sharks can sense it miles off.


Like I said, most women seek male attention at some point(s). But the secure and smart ones know where to draw the line. If her coworkers feel comfortable enough to cross that line so that you had to mate gaurd maybe your wife needs to reevaluate her behavior.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

When MW and the OM first began going on outings together her and I discussed what would happen if the OM crossed the line in his behaviour. We discussed with her at length what she would do if that happened. I'm not sure what conversation she was engaged in with me but I'm pretty sure it was a discussion about boundaries. I think perhaps it may have slipped her mind.


----------



## bfree

Lilly_daddy said:


> When MW and the OM first began going on outings together her and I discussed what would happen if the OM crossed the line in his behaviour. We discussed with her at length what she would do if that happened. I'm not sure what conversation she was engaged in with me but I'm pretty sure it was a discussion about boundaries. I think perhaps it may have slipped her mind.


Maybe she didn't see it as her boundary so she blew it off. My wife knows what MY boundaries are. She knows that her boundaries need to compliment my boundaires or our marriage will not work. Notice how I said compliment and not match because each person's boundaires are their own. If she allows another man to cross her boundary then she in turn crosses my boundary. I can't tell her how to deal with other men nor can I tell her how to deal with someone who crosses the line. I have to trust that she will handle her business or else I will end up handling my business with her. You cannot make your wife adhere to your boundaires because you cannot control her behavior. She needs to be acutely aware that you have boundaries set in stone and if she crosses them there are going to be consequences.

As for her "threat" of getting a cell phone that you can't monitor, what is she worried about? In a marriage those that have nothing to hide hide nothing. Privacy in a marriage should be reserved for the bathroom. Everything else should be transparent and open. After all, each and every decision and action she makes affects you and vice versa. Its not fair nor is it acceptable for any spouse to live any part of their lives in a vaccum. They gave that right up when they took wedding vows.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I did a search for a number on my phone bill for MW's cell.....I also called it and an older woman answered the phone. My cell # is set up to show as private number so there was no threat of it showing up. I stiil have to physically check out the address.


----------



## Tobyboy

Lilly_daddy said:


> I did a search for a number on my phone bill for MW's cell.....I also called it and an older woman answered the phone. My cell # is set up to show as private number so there was no threat of it showing up. I stiil have to physically check out the address.


How long was the phone call your W made to that #? Was it an incoming or outgoing call?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Tobyboy said:


> How long was the phone call your W made to that #? Was it an incoming or outgoing call?


It was an outgoing call made from her cellphone for exactly two minutes at 10:34 am on October 20th. It was a Sunday.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I obtained a name and address from the PM you sent me...Thanks..:smthumbup:


----------



## Philat

Lilly_daddy said:


> *When MW and the OM first began going on outings together *her and I discussed what would happen if the OM crossed the line in his behaviour. We discussed with her at length what she would do if that happened. I'm not sure what conversation she was engaged in with me but I'm pretty sure it was a discussion about boundaries. I think perhaps it may have slipped her mind.


I know it's water under the bridge and you now wish you would have done things differently, but the outings themselves were line-crossing, weren't they?


----------



## Tobyboy

Lilly_daddy said:


> I obtained a name and address from the PM you sent me...Thanks..:smthumbup:


Does the name ring a bell? Did you google the #?

Here's a little tip: Go online to your local craiglist, in the search box inter the phone number. Amazing what you might find.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I believe that the outings were line crossing in themselves and I just found the house matching the address on google streetview.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Name does not ring a bell at all.


----------



## tom67

Lilly_daddy said:


> Name does not ring a bell at all.


Oh boy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lilly_daddy

tom67 said:


> Oh boy
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh Boy is right!


----------



## Tobyboy

Lilly_daddy said:


> Oh Boy is right!


Don't jump to conclusions. Keep digging. Do the search on craighlist. Maybe she saw an ad somewhere about a used cell phone forsale and was calling to inquire about it.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Yeah I'm probably going to do some digging but at the same time I do plan on driving by and seeing who it is that lives there. It's eating me up inside and I need to know. I will of course discuss nothing about it with MW but at the same time I've gotten nothing I can go on in some time.


----------



## weightlifter

Just know bud the TAM army is behind ya!

sorry. I AM cheering for ya.


----------



## dontbeused

When are you going to get rid of this woman? I mean, don't you like yourself? Why the self torture? She is not sorry for what she did, you cannot R with someone that remains the way she has. You know this, so enough already. Be done with her. She is only upset she was caught, and is now spewing hateful comments to you to further attempt to lessen your value and make it seem you deserve a cheating wife. 
Aren't you tired of living like this?

Mad you are checking on her ....F'N hysterical, and wants her own phone contract...
What is she so worried about? Since you are the one that has been terribly wronged and disrespected, and she is the lying cheat..
Why are you still waiting to find more?

I just do not get those that wish to torture themselves, by staying to experience a 100% guaranteed failure of a relationship.


----------



## InlandTXMM

dontbeused said:


> When are you going to get rid of this woman? I mean, don't you like yourself? Why the self torture? She is not sorry for what she did, you cannot R with someone that remains the way she has. You know this, so enough already. Be done with her. She is only upset she was caught, and is now spewing hateful comments to you to further attempt to lessen your value and make it seem you deserve a cheating wife.
> Aren't you tired of living like this?
> 
> Mad you are checking on her ....F'N hysterical, and wants her own phone contract...
> What is she so worried about? Since you are the one that has been terribly wronged and disrespected, and she is the lying cheat..
> Why are you still waiting to find more?
> 
> I just do not get those that wish to torture themselves, by staying to experience a 100% guaranteed failure of a relationship.


From your mouth to God's ears.

Women are not wired to be attracted to weak, indecisive men.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I haven't been able to obtain any more information on the mystery # I got from the phone records. So far things have been calm at home. I still believe something may be going on but I'm not sure. I've done web searches and have come up with nothing. I thought about a soft inquiry about the number and see what she says. It could be someone from school..possibly another parent. I'm just not sure. The number only appears once on the phone records.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## harrybrown

Call the number. Your wife asked you to call them. Just to see if they had any eggs you could borrow.


----------



## BK23

have you tried spokeo? I've had luck with that service for US numbers...


----------



## convert

Do not soft confront, do some more digging.
I know it is hard but will help in the long run.
just one time on the phone bill? maybe nothing.


----------



## ThePheonix

I don't know about the rest of you guys but if I had to continuously work to keep an eye on a person I get a job as a prison guard. I don't know how some of you guys keep dealing with women who'd rather be with someone else. I'll be damed if I'm willing to spend my life and my resources chasing after a women who has so little respect for me. Cut their azzes loose and replace them.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Lilly_daddy said:


> I haven't been able to obtain any more information on the mystery # I got from the phone records. So far things have been calm at home. I still believe something may be going on but I'm not sure. I've done web searches and have come up with nothing. I thought about a soft inquiry about the number and see what she says. It could be someone from school..possibly another parent. I'm just not sure. The number only appears once on the phone records.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Lilly, once again you are fixating on a distraction that keeps you from dealing with the bigger issue. One phone call does not make an adulterous wife. Drop the single odd # on the phone log and focus on the fact that you are married to a lying cheat.


----------



## convert

ThePhoneix, you are right.

I have done this spying for years, I do not know maybe i like the drama, the sleuthing.

I gets old you feel worn down, drained


----------



## InlandTXMM

convert said:


> ThePhoneix, you are right.
> 
> I have done this spying for years, I do not know maybe i like the drama, the sleuthing.
> 
> I gets old you feel worn down, drained


I've said before that I think Lilly, on some level, is actually enjoying this cat-and-mouse game.


----------



## convert

^^^ yes a lot of BS do this and sometimes it just needs to run its course.
maybe on some level it feels that it gives us power.

sometimes we just have to know for sure.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

InlandTXMM said:


> I've said before that I think Lilly, on some level, is actually enjoying this cat-and-mouse game.


Naw, there are people that absolutely HATE change. So, if they can keep pretending things are okay, believe that it is just a phase and blame themselves for everything they are happy. Some people call it doormat, I call it being scared of change.


----------



## ThePheonix

convert said:


> ThePhoneix, you are right.
> 
> I have done this spying for years, I do not know maybe i like the drama, the sleuthing.
> 
> I gets old you feel worn down, drained


Think about what you're missing screwing around and spending money on someone who can't be satisfied when you could be spending it with someone who thinks you're the cat's pajamas. All the more you're likely to discover by sleuthing is that you mean less to them than you thought. I don't know about you but I have limited days on this earth and limited resources I can invest in a relationship. It may sound selfish, but I want a relationship that pays some dividends.


----------



## weightlifter

Burner phones have almost no traceability. Then again one time happening.


----------



## sandc

ThePheonix said:


> Think about what you're missing screwing around and spending money on someone who can't be satisfied when you could be spending it with someone who thinks you're the cat's pajamas. All the more you're likely to discover by sleuthing is that you mean less to them than you thought. I don't know about you but I have limited days on this earth and limited resources I can invest in a relationship. It may sound selfish, but I want a relationship that pays some dividends.


:iagree:

Quoted so you'll read it again.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

The point is well taken. I'd love to strap on my a$$ kicking boots and launch to the curb my lying wife. She is definitely attempting to flip the script on me by playing the "I felt unloved" card in the midst of her sex ting with her ex. I told her flat out to not excuse what she did by giving me that Bull Sh!t line. She still doesn't get it that the anger is still there and there will be triggers...such as being secretive or staying out too long. Certainly the prepaid phone was a major trigger for me. I now know that she had it only for a couple of days. I was able to get a look at it and actually was able to go through the entire phone directory...not much in it. Haven't much choice on that front than to let go the fact that I missed a chance to possibly break things wide open. As for the number on the phone bill..well I managed to go to the actual address and snapped a pic of the place. Its a family home...looks like it could be a classmate of my daughter's parents. I got a pic of a vehicle in the drive...that's probably as far as I will take it for now. Need to focus on gathering until I get what I need...

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I'm working tonight. I'm also reflecting on the day I caught MW sexting her ex. I'm having major problems with her not admitting that what she had was an emotional affair. She doesn't think she had one and I am having a problem getting past that. Its really hard to look at her everyday and not want to puke. I am reacting to a major trigger which is basically my vivid memory of that day and I feel such intense anger every day.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## ThePheonix

Here's the bottom line Dawg. When a woman loves you, they want to be with you; not sexting, having an emotional affair, or worse, with some other guy. What you're having a major problem with is that you know this.


----------



## InlandTXMM

ThePheonix said:


> Here's the bottom line Dawg. When a woman loves you, they want to be with you; not sexting, having an emotional affair, or worse, with some other guy. What you're having a major problem with is that you know this.


Agreed. He's trying so hard to avoid the obvious.


----------



## LostViking

Lilly_daddy, (I hate that fvcking name by the way)......

Divorce her. 


Just divorce her for God's sake. 


She does not love you. She is not into you. She does not desire you. She does not want you as a lover or a confidant. All you are to her is a paycheck and a helper around the house. 

You can run around snooping and spending money trying to bust her, but in the end you are only going to come to the same conclusion: she is a duplicitous cheat, and a liar. 

Why waste anymore time, energy and money trying to prove what you already know? :scratchhead:

Even she knows she is a liar and cheat, and she's standing there, bemused, watching you and asking the same questions as the rest of us.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

You are in turmoil I get that, I was as well. Thing is, I eventually packed her crap and basically said get out. Like Phoenix basically said, "too little time, too many fish in the sea." It DOES NOT MATTER how or what she thinks, this is incident number two. Whether she agrees with the blame or not, she KNOWS it hurt you before and only an IDIOT thinks it is better a second time. No, I am not calling you an idiot.

So, this time she got a secret phone and had her friend help. 
This time she made sure you COULDN'T FIND OUT.
You do understand that is called ESCALATION right?

She felt unloved? Well, how did she think you felt when the sex talk wasn't with you it was with an EX? Sorry, but your wife is either a masterful liar and manipulator or an idiot. 

Considering that you are still confused, hurt, thinking about R and wishing you could do something, while not doing anything but talking, tells me she isn't an idiot.


----------



## InlandTXMM

OP I am posting #579 on your thread.

Nearly 600 bits of back-and-forth, mountains of evidence, and even your own wife standing there telling you how it's going to be (her own phone account, she's going out when and with whom she wants) and you are nowhere closer to a decision than when you first posted.

I can promise you, this passive, waffling, sneak-around-spying, frankly scared little boy approach has put the final nails in the coffin of this marriage.

Women do not respect, sleep with, nor build their futures with weak, spineless men.

Act like you've got a pair and TAKE ACTION.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

InlandTXMM said:


> (her own phone account, she's going out when and with whom she wants).


Oops I forgot all about that post. If this isn't your wife telling you "I WANT TO BE SINGLE BUT SPEND YOUR PAYCHECK" I do not know what else she can do. 

When I found the EA this is what my wife did in the same amount of time you've been posting:

My wife ended it immediately.
Deleted his number. 
She "accidentally hid it." Yet, there wasn't one single text to him again.
Showed me phone records (had to fight a bit on this one hence throwing her out.)
Tells me EVERYWHERE she is going. 
Invites me or calls me from the place.
Passively listens to my tirades when I trigger.
Shows me any text that might be inappropriate
She is a General Manager and tells me about borderline conversations.
Tells me when she is going to be late.
Explains any discrepancies BEFORE my mind catches them.
She went to the office for the polygraph. 
She didn't balk, scream or sulk about invasion of privacy or snooping. 

This was before reading Shirley Glass. 

She also said she did nothing wrong, which is why I coerced her into reading Shirley Glass and she freaked out.

Do we still have issues? Of course, but looking at your situation I won't be complaining too much anymore.

Do I know 100% if it was an EA or PA? Nope. 
Do I check anymore? Nope.
Do I care what she does when she is out? Nope.

If this happens again, even if it is a feeler "I love you," I'm out. She understands this in no uncertain terms. 

Your wife has told you she is going to do what she wants. I told my wife if she ever feels that way, a cheapy divorce is about $150. Then we can both date as much as we want, instead of one of us worrying about the family, while the other finds release.


----------



## ThePheonix

Lilly my man, I hate to post again so quickly and before you have a chance to respond but why are you here and what do you hope to gain by this foot dragging? She's read the "riot act" to you and told you how its gonna be. Its bad enough having a woman disrespect you. What's worse is when the folks here start to understand why. If you ain't gonna do anything, just say so. We understand that some guys just don't have it in them to stop their wives from jerking their chain.
Any way you choose to work it Dawg, ain't no amount of "gum shoeing" on your part or anybody on this site gonna have the power to turn your frog into a princess.


----------



## InlandTXMM

It's a simple as this:

What would a person with even an ounce of courage do?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Mystery Phone Number belongs to the parents of a boy in mt daughters class. MW took My Daughter to a birthday party in October and the # belongs to his Mother. I even called and spoke with her so that has been dealt with. I had a long conversation with MW and advised her that from this point forward whenever I have any doubts about her motives then it is her job to answer any and all questions I have without hesitation. I told her that since she decided to "step out" on the marriage I will be requiring clarification from time to time when I feel it is necessary. She didn't deny that and told me she it trying. She comes home earlier and doesn't stay out too late. She texts when she is going to be late and she no longer keeps her cell phone glued to her. I even picked it up one day this week and she didn't even flinch. I also noticed she doesn't have the other phone anymore. I was able to see the phone she was using and have confirmed it is a switched off phone and doesn't even have a sim card in it. I monitor the wireless traffic from the router as well so anything in or outgoing can be downloaded. MW has given very little resistance to what I have told her. The conversation lasted over two hours and at times I became extremely upset with her but kept firm and told her that now she is aware of what my expectations are from her in this marriage. My boundaries are clear! no exceptions or deviations are accepted.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Talk, talk. Nothing but talk.

I'm out.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hypothetical: You find out your wife has another secret cell phone. What's your response?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Nucking Futs said:


> Hypothetical: You find out your wife has another secret cell phone. What's your response?




:FIREdevil::FIREdevil::FIREdevil:

:BoomSmilie_anim::BoomSmilie_anim::BoomSmilie_anim:

And that is hypothetical. MW wouldn't even be worthy of a confrontation. The confrontation would begin with the serving of divorce papers and also it would end with that very same process.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

So, you found the missing phone it is *NOW* turned off and there is no SIM card* NOW*.

If it doesn't have a SIM card, why does she still have it? 
Why is it always around? 
An old phone isn't like old keys on a currently in use key chain. 

Good luck, I hope you two work this out.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

The Phone had no sim card in it originally. It was actually not even functioning so no calls could be made...not even text messages.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

MW doesn't have the phone on her currently. I was with her when she gave it back and I found out it had no sim card in it. The phone had internet history on it. MW was very honest with what she was doing on it and I was able to get some sense of relief from that. She is also aware why I was grilling her so intensely about it.


----------



## ThePheonix

phillybeffandswiss said:


> So, you found the missing phone it is *NOW* turned off and there is no SIM card* NOW*.
> 
> If it doesn't have a SIM card, why does she still have it?
> Why is it always around?
> An old phone isn't like old keys on a currently in use key chain.
> 
> Good luck, I hope you two work this out.


Reminds me of some of the lyrics from a Kim Carnes song.

_"She'll expose you, when she snows you
Hope you'll feed with the crumbs she throws you"_


----------



## aug

Lilly_daddy said:


> MW doesn't have the phone on her currently. I was with her when she gave it back and I found out *it had no sim card in it. The phone had internet history on it.* MW was very honest with what she was doing on it and I was able to get some sense of relief from that. She is also aware why I was grilling her so intensely about it.



Wouldn't the phone need the sim card to identify itself on the internet when accessing it?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

No it wouldn't...I've used old phones that are incapable of making phone calls with no sim card but can still access a wireless network. I used to use old phones for my kids when they wanted to watch you tube..it's basically like an ipad with wifi on it.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Lilly_daddy said:


> No it wouldn't...I've used old phones that are incapable of making phone calls with no sim card but can still access a wireless network. I used to use old phones for my kids when they wanted to watch you tube..it's basically like an ipad with wifi on it.


Yep, my son used to do that and use free text apps with the wifi. No records. 
You really need to decide if you want to R or D. Seriously, you want to catch her, but you also want to defend her actions. If you don't make a decision she'll make one for you.


With that I'm out. Good luck, I hope you work to move past this limbo.


----------



## workindad

SO, what do you think happened to the SIM card?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

As far as records go for texting apps she could easily use the ipod I have at home. She knows where it is and can use it at any time. The cell phone has been returned and was actually used for three days. I was able to confirm through the device history on the phone. Nothing was erased and the web pages were still active. I have no red flags where the phone is a concern. We are basically living on meager $ and literally have no wiggle room when it comes to purchases outside of the regular bills and food, etc.. 

As far as deciding on R or D..well I have no intentions on D right now simply because we are still making progress in MC and it's working ok. MW is being more open and transparent with me these days and tells me when she is going somewhere. I can now look through her phone and she doesn't say boo. The other day I had a suspicion she was keeping money from me that comes in every month for the kids. Well the cheque hasn't been coming in for the last two months so I asked her to call for me. She put me on speaker while she spoke with the woman on the phone which put my mind to ease. I thought she was planning to stash $ away in case she was planning something. It was refreshing that she was willing to just do that without any issues whatsoever and it meant something to me. 

I do love MW and she knows that she f***ed up when it came to her ex. When I get angry at her she doesn't need to ask why because she already knows that a trigger has caused me to blow up or have a sh***y drive home from work. Basically when MW has some extended free time is when I get concerned. Right now she accepts that time will help but it's not a speedy recovery nor will it be a smooth ride when it comes to every situation but things sometimes cannot get better before they get worse.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I can tell others here are getting eager and miffed that they haven't seen concrete action from me over this. Right now things are better in the sense that MW knows she has things to fix and she is trying. I will give her that. I am not without my faults as well. I do sometimes get my back up over things that are not conclusive nor have been proven to be true at the time. This has made me terribly paranoid sometimes. I hate being gone from home sometimes and it pains me to think what she is doing when I'm gone but all I have to do is send her a text and ask. At this point she bends when I ask and if she even thinks about flipping the role on me I simply tell her this would not be happening if you hadn't cause me to be the kind of person I choose not to be. She knows we had no issues before this and realizes it all will take time. I Love MW and need to get back to a place in our lives where we can rely on each other again rather than view each other as the villain.


----------



## dontbeused

Lilly_daddy said:


> I can tell others here are getting eager and miffed that they haven't seen concrete action from me over this. Right now things are better in the sense that MW knows she has things to fix and she is trying. I will give her that. I am not without my faults as well. I do sometimes get my back up over things that are not conclusive nor have been proven to be true at the time. This has made me terribly paranoid sometimes. I hate being gone from home sometimes and it pains me to think what she is doing when I'm gone but all I have to do is send her a text and ask. At this point she bends when I ask and if she even thinks about flipping the role on me I simply tell her this would not be happening if you hadn't cause me to be the kind of person I choose not to be. She knows we had no issues before this and realizes it all will take time. I Love MW and need to get back to a place in our lives where we can rely on each other again rather than view each other as the villain.


 I hold little to no confidence in your W but do wish you two the best of luck and hope I am wrong.


----------



## LostViking

But what if she really is a villain? 

What will you do then?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I hope for her sake she is not the villain....they either perish at the end or lose everything...


----------



## See_Listen_Love

InlandTXMM said:


> Talk, talk. Nothing but talk.
> 
> I'm out.


:iagree:


Your behavior is weak, you talk a lot, complain, worry what she thinks, hope this, expect that, write, write, write.

She will see you not as a man. 

'Man up or Shut up'. 

Not meant to disrespect you but as a one liner to keep reminding yourself you have a choice. Pick one.


----------



## 86857

Hi LilyDaddy,
********** here, the poster who can't do short posts.  Your thread has a lot of pages since I last saw it and I have only read the last page or two about the phone. 

If my husband had a burner phone I'd be mighty p*ssed off. Actually he had one and used it to text and meet women behind my back, EA and a PA as in 'we kissed'. There was no good reason whatsoever for your MW to have one. 

Now you are in MC and I too think a marriage is worth saving especially because you have 3 kids. And MW (what does that stand for?) seems to have the right attitude. 

You said you get paranoid at times when you are away form your home and so on. That is *PERFECTLY NORMAL *so stop beating yourself up about it. 

So what to do? Do what I did. I kept up the snooping. VAR your home and your car - seriously. I didn't do the VAR because it was pre-TAM & I never thought to do that. Wish I had. I did snoop though and he had promised to tell me if any of his OWs contacted him. Turned out he didn't tell me. He didn't reply to one of them and to another who asked him to meet for a drink he replied and said he was married and 'married men don't do that' which I didn't like but I wasn't sure why. My psychiatrist friend said it was because it was in the third person and it would have been better if he had said he loved his wife, or something about me anyway. Sounded as if he was 'obeying the rules' to me and if he wasn't married he would have met her. OK, I'm fussy. I know I wouldn't put it like that if an OM contacted me (there never was an OM of course!).

So he didn't pursue anything with the OWs and that's all fine and good but not good enough for me me because he is still lying - by non-disclosure. Ii don't care how they lie. If I ask my husband a question I EXPECT the truth. He always gets a truthful answer from me! When I saw the text from the OW who wanted to meet him for a drink, I waited a week and asked him if he had heard from any OWs in the past year. He looked me straight in the eye and said "No!". Great isn't it because what will he lie about next. He was depressed when the OW asked him out for a drink as he was unemployed - I was working late shifts so he could have easily met her in a 'weak' moment. 

So I'm going to leave him. He loves me in his own way but seems to have trouble with the truth. I ain't gonna grow old with someone who can't tell me the truth. I ain't gonna wait until the lie is a big one. 'From little things big things grow' as the song says. He was SUPPOSED to SHOW me any communication he got from OWs and we were SUPPOSED to send back a reply together. Yeah right!

What I am trying to say in a long-winded way is SNOOP! VARs and a keylogger on her computer and so on. You need *VERIFIABLE TRUTH *for a while. You are not being mean to her to do that though you are in MC. She started it by lying, you have been good enough to agree to R. 

Know what? Your paranoia will disappear and you won't hassle her as much which probably is hard to take for WS if they are really in R. You will feel RELAXED and Christmas is coming. You want a lovely family relaxed Christmas with you, your MW and the kids. I believe snooping will ease your mind and will allow you to have a very happy Christmas. 

If you find after 6 months, 12 months or whatever that she is genuine, then you can grow old with someone who tells you the truth, unlike me.  Maker sure to tell her that you expect her to tell you if OM contacts her. That is clearly a good lithmus test to see if she is going to commit to honesty. 

Everyone says R is long and hard. I think that to have verifiable truth for a time makes it a whole lot easier. You will be much nicer to live with too because you will feel secure that your MW is really doing the miles.

I have seen too many false Rs on here LilyDaddy. Protect yourself. You owe yourself that having been put through all that pain.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I took the plunge tonight. MW was on the couch and I was standing by the closet by the front door getting ready for work. MW's purse was there and her phone was visible. I knew I needed the phone for the night if I was gonna find anything inside it. I couldn't help myself so, I took it. I was nervous because I've never done that before. MW was trying to text me and was without her phone. The first thing she did was try and call her phone after she found it was missing. I had it and I knew if I searched enough I would find something, anything. I proceeded to take pics of anything I found that appeared suspicious. 


Then I found it. Her ex bf's cell number disguised under her sisters name. Not just that but the Married Male Friend under another female's number. It seemed odd because there were double entries in the contacts. I felt my blood pressure rise when I saw this...felt that cold feeling again when I first read the texts between the two of them. I felt as though i had struck some sort of victory for myself but at the same time I felt very sad. I am so nervous. How do I proceed with this? Do I just come right out with it all? I know if I do she will deflect until she is out of armour. I don't want to scream at her with the kids around. Actually I don't want to really get mad like that at all. I told her a blatant lie when she asked me if I had her cell phone. I felt as though I had to or else she would be able to prepare some sort of defense against what it about to come her way. I no doubt have to seek a D. I don't want to but it has gone way too far and I just can't go on with this knowing how long she has kept this from me. When she got caught she erased everything from her phone. She must have had it written down somewhere or under another name already in case. I guess it went UG right away. Who knows for how long but no more. This Ends Now!


----------



## aug

Well, dont ever give back her phone. Do NOT acknowledge having the phone. Let it stay "missing".

Keep it offsite, away from the house. Keep it for evidence.

Let her get a replacement phone.


----------



## aug

Start right now by separating your finances. Have your own bank accounts. No joint credit cards. No joint loans. Start saving your money.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

She told me that if she gets another phone she wants it under her own name. I'm not sure what to do.. I have taken pics of the information I need.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I feel as though she may have now gotten use of her friends phone to text the Ex BF. I want to sit her down so bad and just tell her how it's going to be from now on. She will focus on the fact that I took her phone. She will make that a huge issue. I am going to have a huge fight on my hands. If she gets a new phone under her own name then she will be able to restrict me even more but if I give her phone back or make like it was dropped somewhere in the house she will simply just think it was misplaced.


----------



## aug

Lilly_daddy said:


> I feel as though she may have now gotten use of her friends phone to text the Ex BF. I want to sit her down so bad and just tell her how it's going to be from now on. She will focus on the fact that I took her phone. She will make that a huge issue. I am going to have a huge fight on my hands. If she gets a new phone under her own name then she will be able to restrict me even more but if I give her phone back or make like it was dropped somewhere in the house she will simply just think it was misplaced.


okay. leave the phone somewhere in the house where she may have dropped it. leave it there alone.

Do NOT tell her how you know or the source of your info.


----------



## aug

Lilly_daddy said:


> She told me that if she gets another phone she wants it under her own name. I'm not sure what to do.. I have taken pics of the information I need.



Take the pics and save it. Make several copies (on USB's?) and hide the copies away from the house. Or, create a new email account and email yourself the evidence.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I was just going to go for the kill but I guess this will be much better. I'm not sure how to go about this though. She has repeatedly told me time and time again that she did everything I told her to when she deleted this guy from her phone completely. She has vehemently preached this to me numerous times. I really want to nail her in this lie. I feel it will give me more leverage.


----------



## azteca1986

Lilly_daddy said:


> I feel as though she may have now gotten use of her friends phone to text the Ex BF. I want to sit her down so bad and just tell her how it's going to be from now on. She will focus on the fact that I took her phone. She will make that a huge issue. I am going to have a huge fight on my hands. If she gets a new phone under her own name then she will be able to restrict me even more but if I give her phone back or make like it was dropped somewhere in the house she will simply just think it was misplaced.


What's misplaced is your fear or dread for having a confrontation with your WW. She has two boyfriends on that phone (that you know of). How many is she allowed to have and still remain 'married' to you?


----------



## aug

Lilly_daddy said:


> I was just going to go for the kill but I guess this will be much better. I'm not sure how to go about this though. She has repeatedly told me time and time again that she did everything I told her to when she deleted this guy from her phone completely. She has vehemently preached this to me numerous times. I really want to nail her in this lie. I feel it will give me more leverage.



So, try this for awhile.

You now have concrete proof that she can lie to your face on a serious matter. 

Dont confront yet. You have this knowledge that she's a liar. Observe her when she lies. What sort of body language does she give off when she lies? Does she get angry when she lies? What sort of body clues does she give when she lies?

Sit back and enjoy the show. Learn from it.

Decide if this is the type of person you want in your life.

In the meantime, let your brain catch up to your emotions. Give yourself time to think of what you want.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

azteca1986 said:


> What's misplaced is your fear or dread for having a confrontation with your WW. She has two boyfriends on that phone (that you know of). How many is she allowed to have and still remain 'married' to you?


I have fear and dread about what I will do. I am afraid My anger will consume me and there wil be no turning back. She has been in contact with out wireless provider and has put the phone in her name it appears.


----------



## TRy

Lilly_daddy said:


> I have fear and dread about what I will do. I am afraid My anger will consume me and there wil be no turning back. She has been in contact with out wireless provider and has put the phone in her name it appears.


 Tell her that their is only one real reason she wants to put the phone in her name, and that is to be able to hide the fact that she is in contact with these other men. Tell her that you are sick and tired of her breaking her promises, and that this has forced you to do things to protect your marraige, like looking at her phone, that you would rather not be doing. Tell her that based on her track record of inappropriateness with other men, it is just silly that she tries to make it like you must treat her like an innocent. Tell her that although judges will tell cops that it is wrong for them to snoop by taping someones phone, judges will let them do it if the cops have reasonable cause to suspect guilt; reminder her that you have reasonable cause to suspect guilt and thus have a right to snoop. Tell her that you have good reason not to trust her, and that she needs to be working to earn your trust back, instead of always arguing with your to protect her right to be inappropriate with other men.

Just dismiss her false self righteous about you looking at her phone, and instead turn it around and demand full transparency without compliant. This would include all passwords, and an agreement not to delete communications without showing it to you first. Tell her that putting the phone in her name is off the table, as you will treat her wanting to do this is an admission that she wishes to sneak behind your back in contacting these other men. Do not yell or take the bait when she tries to provoke you. Calmly tell her what she needs to do if she really wants to try to earn your trust back and stay in this marraige. She either wants in on the marraige, or she does not.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

TRy said:


> Tell her that their is only one real reason she wants to put the phone in her name, and that is to be able to hide the fact that she is in contact with these other men. Tell her that you are sick and tired of her breaking her promises, and that this has forced you to do things to protect your marraige, like looking at her phone, that you would rather not be doing. Tell her that based on her track record of inappropriateness with other men, it is just silly that she tries to make it like you must treat her like an innocent. Tell her that although judges will tell cops that it is wrong for them to snoop by taping someones phone, judges will let them do it if the cops have reasonable cause to suspect guilt; reminder her that you have reasonable cause to suspect guilt and thus have a right to snoop. Tell her that you have good reason not to trust her, and that she needs to be working to earn your trust back, instead of always arguing with your to protect her right to be inappropriate with other men.
> 
> Just dismiss her false self righteous about you looking at her phone, and instead turn it around and demand full transparency without compliant. This would include all passwords, and an agreement not to delete communications without showing it to you first. Tell her that putting the phone in her name is off the table, as you will treat her wanting to do this is an admission that she wishes to sneak behind your back in contacting these other men. Do not yell or take the bait when she tries to provoke you. Calmly tell her what she needs to do if she really wants to try to earn your trust back and stay in this marraige. She either wants in on the marraige, or she does not.


Thank You...I find this to be the most appropriate approach.


----------



## Bugz Bunny

You dont have to be afraid...so what if you took the phone,if I understood correctly you had an agreement with her about NC with APs and as we now can see she never kept her part of the agreement,she went underground immediately and it never stopped so I really dont see even the smallest reason for you to be afraid about snooping and taking her phone...

Yes I know she will make a big deal about you "stealing" her phone but it doesnt matter anymore because you know now that she was lying this whole time and that her boyfriends are more important to her thane the marriage and family...so her making a big deal about you "stealing" the phone is just a miserable and ridiculous defense tactic on her part... In marriage there is no privacy and especially in your case where she cheated so if she was interested in saving this marriage in the first place she would voluntarily give you her phone to see that she has nothing to hide instead you having to snoop to be able to know if she is honest with you...

So here is what I would do: I would sit her down for a little chat and I would be calm and cold as ice,I would never raise my voice during the conversation and then I would say her that this game in which she is playing me for a fool and in which her boyfriends are more important than the marriage is over and that I am divorcing her and that I have now proof that she never was honest in the first place and then I would give her the phone back...after giving her the phone back she will probably be *****y about taking her phone but it is her only and ridiculous defense tactic and you know that is ridiculous as does she and when she starts to be *****y about it just dont engage with her about it because we all know and she damn well too that it was the only way to catch her...

So dont be afraid and sit her down,have a little chat with her give her the phone and after giving her the phone start a 180 and file for divorce...

Thats what I would do,Good Luck


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Bugz Bunny said:


> You dont have to be afraid...so what if you took the phone,if I understood correctly you had an agreement with her about NC with APs and as we now can see she never kept her part of the agreement,she went underground immediately and it never stopped so I really dont see even the smallest reason for you to be afraid about snooping and taking her phone...
> 
> Yes I know she will make a big deal about you "stealing" her phone but it doesnt matter anymore because you know now that she was lying this whole time and that her boyfriends are more important to her thane the marriage and family...so her making a big deal about you "stealing" the phone is just a miserable and ridiculous defense tactic on her part... In marriage there is no privacy and especially in your case where she cheated so if she was interested in saving this marriage in the first place she would voluntarily give you her phone to see that she has nothing to hide instead you having to snoop to be able to know if she is honest with you...
> 
> So here is what I would do: I would sit her down for a little chat and I would be calm and cold as ice,I would never raise my voice during the conversation and then I would say her that this game in which she is playing me for a fool and in which her boyfriends are more important than the marriage is over and that I am divorcing her and that I have now proof that she never was honest in the first place and then I would give her the phone back...after giving her the phone back she will probably be *****y about taking her phone but it is her only and ridiculous defense tactic and you know that is ridiculous as does she and when she starts to be *****y about it just dont engage with her about it because we all know and she damn well too that it was the only way to catch her...
> 
> So dont be afraid and sit her down,have a little chat with her give her the phone and after giving her the phone start a 180 and file for divorce...
> 
> Thats what I would do,Good Luck


Thanks Very Much for all the great advice. I have a printed copy of the 180 plan to look over. Here Goes Something!


----------



## Tobyboy

Keep the phone and text both OM with it!! See what info you can get pretending to be your wife. Text something simple first and go from there. Text something like "hey".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lilly_daddy

She reported the phone stolen to the carrier and they deactivated it. Luckily I am the account holder so I was able to reactivate it. She is insisting on getting another phone today so I think I'm just gonna fry her today.


----------



## Chaparral

If you raise your voice you lose the arguement. Simply stay totally unemotional, tell her what you know. Tell her she is just another lying cheater. Tell her to get all the phones she wants and to get a divorce lawyer. Don't smile or frown. Keep everything simple. That's the the only thing that gets through to them. Be completely cold.

Seperate your accts and get her off any credit cards. Just tell her sges totally free now and you don't care what or who she does.

Then watch her squirm.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Lilly_daddy said:


> Thanks Very Much for all the great advice. I have a printed copy of the 180 plan to look over. Here Goes Something!


Ugh, okay, one last bit of advice from me. Let me take one last stab at it so my conscience is clear.

OP: you do not "look over" the 180. You EXECUTE it. Fully and ruthlessly.

You now have even more evidence that your wife is a cheater. Please swallow that bitter pill of truth and accept it. She's "one of those women" now. She's not the person she pretends to be. She's willing to wh0re herself. She's damaged goods. She's not the best you can find. In fact, most men would never keep or want her in the first place.

Now please accept a second helping of truth, and really listen this time:

*YOU MUST BE WILLING TO LOSE THE MARRIAGE TO HAVE ANY HOPE OF SAVING IT.*

Did you beg your wife to marry you? Of course not. You were a man of confidence and character and someone she fell in love with. You were someone she respected and loved enough to commit her life and body to.

*Somewhere deep inside you, right now, that very man - the one who knows he's worth more than this - is screaming at the top of his lungs to come help you. Find him. Please.*

I don't know what circumstances over the years have pushed you into this box that makes you feel like you have no control over the events in your life. I don't know where you lost the belief that you have a right to have boundaries, and that you are a person worthy of being treated with respect and integrity. But I do know that this sense you have, that you are afraid of her, that you must live your life walking on eggshells around her, and that she has all the power in the relationship, these feelings are JUST AN ILLUSION.

Now please accept a third helping of truth:

She won't see you as "HER man" again until you BECOME "her man" again. You see, when you actually permitted her to do things with other men that SHE KNOWS no respectable man would allow, she lost respect for you. When she throws a hissy fit and sees you wilt in front of her, she loses more respect for you. When she starts telling you how it's going to be, and you say, in effect, "Yes, dear," instead of "Hell no," she loses respect for you. And when she is less afraid of HAVING a burner phone than you are in FINDING one, she has no reason at all to respect you.

You have every right to demand fidelity from the woman who wears your wedding ring. You have every right to demand transparency from a woman who has already proven herself unworthy of blind faith. You have every right to expect a complete and final end to your wife's behavior, if she values your family in any way.

*And you have every right to fight hard and dirty to save your marriage, even if your wife is the opponent. A husband worthy of respect, admiration and faithfulness cannot do any less than that.*

None of us can find your "grapes" for you. None of us can do this hard part for you. But an awful lot of us were right where you are now, faced that exact same fear of loss, and pushed through it.

My experience with this has taught me that wives are far less rational than we give them credit for, and actually want to be submissive to a strong male she can trust and respect. She won't "come back" on her own. She's feeding on emotional highs like a junkie. Only a strong man - the man she trusted you were in order to marry you - will pull her back. 

And make no mistake - your wife IS submitting. To the will of the man she deems the strongest. Right now that is not you.

It is your duty to tell your wife, "The game's over. You can be someone else's wh0re, or my wife. You can never be both again." Then, you let her decide. Your boundary on this has to be impenetrable. You cannot waver. That's not controlling in any way - she has the freedom to choose which she is - wife or wh0re. But your boundary - that you will never again accept being anything but #1 in her life, and that you are far too good a catch to accept seconds from a harlot, is unmistakably final.

I would bet my life on this - NO MAN who stood his ground, and reclaimed his honor and dignity in the face of an adulterous wife, would EVER say they wish they hadn't taken a stand. Even if it ended the marriage.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Forgive that long exposition, OP, but I'm trying to get your head right.

After 42 pages of all of us telling you "HOW" to go about this, you haven't done anything yet, and I believe that's because you still don't understand the "WHY".

Most of the betrayed husbands are incredibly co-dependent and weak when they first shuffle in here. I've yet to see a very strong, emotionally healthy male come to report a cheating wife.


----------



## jack.c

InlandTXMM said:


> Forgive that long exposition, OP, but I'm trying to get your head right.
> 
> After 42 pages of all of us telling you "HOW" to go about this, you haven't done anything yet, and I believe that's because you still don't understand the "WHY".
> 
> Most of the betrayed husbands are incredibly co-dependent and weak when they first shuffle in here. I've yet to see a very strong, emotionally healthy male come to report a cheating wife.



oh yeh they are!! To bad they are almost all trolls! :rofl::rofl:


----------



## bfree

Why do you want a woman that so clearly wants other men?


----------



## InlandTXMM

jack.c said:


> oh yeh they are!! To bad they are almost all trolls! :rofl::rofl:


LMAO!!! I almost put that, I swear! Only the guys with everything going for them, inheritance, great job, wonderful life full of friends and family. You can spot the troll a mile away with that criteria.

Oh and lest we forget, the wife must be incredibly gorgeous, be doing her boss, and he can take 2-week trips with his pals to catch her with a PI.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Maybe some of the ladies here can convince OP.

Ladies: do you find any of what this man is doing, mate-worthy? Can you find this kind of weakness attractive?


----------



## 6301

Lilly_daddy said:


> She told me that if she gets another phone she wants it under her own name. I'm not sure what to do.. I have taken pics of the information I need.


 For Gods sake man! Tell her to get the phone in her name and while she's at it, tell her to get her own place in her name and throw her ass out. How much longer are you going to keep playing this Mickey Mouse game with her. You don't trust her. Your going nuts with this whole thing and no matter what you do, she has her own agenda and there isn't thing one you can do about it except cut your losses and file for divorce.


----------



## just got it 55

I have no words


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

Ask yourself why is the burden of fear and guilt all with you and none with her? You are the one who should be angry, you are the one that should be apologized to. Stop worrying about the feeling of your WW. With that being said, it's time to learn how to be "cold" with your anger. Flying off into a rage only benefits her argument.


----------



## vi_bride04

InlandTXMM said:


> Maybe some of the ladies here can convince OP.
> 
> Ladies: do you find any of what this man is doing, mate-worthy? Can you find this kind of weakness attractive?


If I was screwing multiple dudes, not only would I not find my husband attractive but I would already be so full of disrespect, contempt and resentment towards him there would be no way I would come back to the marriage....it would only be to manipulate and make sure I was ok financially.


----------



## sandc

InlandTXMM said:


> Forgive that long exposition, OP, but I'm trying to get your head right.


Aw hell no! Forgive nothing, that ought to be a sticky! You smacked that one right over the fence!


----------



## sandc

LD,
You didn't listen to us before. You kept explaining everything away. START listening. These guys and gals are telling you how to get your life back. Stop trying to do it your way and let us help you do it the way that works.

Just like Inland laid out, give her the choices, if she equivocates, tell her 'nevermind' that you're moving on without her. If you can show her that you have the strength of character to love her, but that you don't need her, you will return her interest to you. It may not happen over night, but when she sees you as a strong man with direction in his life, she'll come running back.

And if she doesn, is she really what you want? Think about that before answering it in your head.


----------



## InlandTXMM

vi_bride04 said:


> If I was screwing multiple dudes, not only would I not find my husband attractive but I would already be so full of disrespect, contempt and resentment towards him there would be no way I would come back to the marriage....it would only be to manipulate and make sure I was ok financially.


EXACTLY. OP, take notes like your marriage depended on it. It does.

Vi_bride04, now what if your husband, while shocked and hurt by that betrayal, suddenly found his "sack" and put you to the ultimatum? What if he demonstrated to you that he was not going to accept that kind of treatment?


----------



## InlandTXMM

sandc said:


> LD,
> You didn't listen to us before. You kept explaining everything away. START listening. These guys and gals are telling you how to get your life back. Stop trying to do it your way and let us help you do it the way that works.
> 
> Just like Inland laid out, give her the choices, if she equivocates, tell her 'nevermind' that you're moving on without her. If you can show her that you have the strength of character to love her, but that you don't need her, you will return her interest to you. It may not happen over night, but when she sees you as a strong man with direction in his life, she'll come running back.
> 
> And if she doesn, is she really what you want? Think about that before answering it in your head.


I gave up pages ago because I think at some level, this man is so completely passive that he is actually enjoying this little game with his wife - it's like it's the only real attention he's had from her in years, and he's happy for any scraps she tosses his way.

Instead of being the man she wants and needs, he's like a dog sniffing the seat after she stands up. I find that terribly sad. Women find that revolting.


----------



## sandc

I would love to "like" that post but I find the content so revolting that I just cant.

It's absolutely true by the way.


----------



## sandc

Inland,
Read this. It will do your heart good. Made me want to stand up and cheer!

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/136410-thank-you-all.html#post5502097

LD,
Read it too. Textbook perfect how-to.


----------



## InlandTXMM

sandc said:


> I would love to "like" that post but I find the content so revolting that I just cant.
> 
> It's absolutely true by the way.


LOL. Sorry. I've always been about as subtle as a chainsaw.

So far this guy hasn't taken any advice given diplomatically.


----------



## aug

sandc said:


> I would love to "like" that post but I find the content so revolting that I just cant.
> 
> It's absolutely true by the way.


okay, I feel obligated to "like" it for you.


----------



## BobSimmons

Esco comes to mind. Ignoring advice, riling everyone up with his passivity and doormattery.. meh. After page 10 still doing the same old, leave the man to it. He knows best.


----------



## sandc

aug said:


> okay, I feel obligated to "like" it for you.


Thanks. :smthumbup:


----------



## Nujabes

BobSimmons said:


> Esco comes to mind. Ignoring advice, riling everyone up with his passivity and doormattery.. meh. After page 10 still doing the same old, leave the man to it. He knows best.


Is it ignorance is bliss or is it arrogance is bliss?


----------



## TDSC60

BobSimmons said:


> Esco comes to mind. Ignoring advice, riling everyone up with his passivity and doormattery.. meh. After page 10 still doing the same old, leave the man to it. He knows best.


Um - Esco was a troll and his epic thread was a complete fabrication. Mods have removed it.


----------



## LostViking

He's scared. Scared of what the D would be like. Scared of losing the status quo. 

It is natural to have this fear. But you cannot let fear keep you bogged down in misery.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## InlandTXMM

LostViking said:


> He's scared. Scared of what the D would be like. Scared of losing the status quo.
> 
> It is natural to have this fear. But you cannot let fear keep you bogged down in misery.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He's losing her now, if he hasn't already lost her. His passivity is marital kryptonite. 

It's just a matter of him waking up to that reality.

Lord knows I tried. :banghead:


----------



## ThePheonix

Lilly_daddy said:


> I have fear and dread about what I will do. I am afraid My anger will consume me and there wil be no turning back.


If she's reading you like I'm reading you Dawg, she has very little to worry about.:lol:


----------



## verpin zal

Good sir, your first thread about some pics on your wife's mp3 device was posted when I was conscripted and under military servitude, around its 4th month. I was deployed for 5 months and 5 days, I returned, lived a free life for 2 months, got employed, and this is my third week on my new job.

And you're still whining.

All I will say is "don't bother, she will eat, have, produce, bake and sell her cake, change its recipe, coat it with sugar and hide it in the most unreachable cupboard anyway."

Heh..


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I would like to thank everyone who has provided their own brand of revenge justice and for those who have pushed on many occasions to have me simply throw away an 8 year marriage over the course of events that have spanned less than a year. I am well aware of what everyone has been through here and I am fairly new to this brand of marital infidelity. Let me end my mini rant by adding that no ones situation can possibly be identical. No one can profess to know what is going on in the homes of those who have been betrayed and no one can possibly expect another person to simply throw away a life based on a simple forum post!

Having got that out of the way lets get onto the meat. MW was sat down yesterday and promptly told under no circumstances will she be getting her phone in her own name. In order to produce transparency I am going to arrange for both of us to be able to at any time monitor text messages and incoming and outgoing phone calls with ease. I have nothing to hide so it is not big deal to me if this is done. She was confronted with the information...well lets call it concrete proof that she had the ex-bf's cell # hidden in her phone. She attempted a back track but I stopped her there. I told her she was not required to give an explanation because it would not be accepted an anything other than Bull sh*t. She had a look of shock on her face when told that. I deleted the contact # from her phone and I grilled her about the remaining names and contacts in her phone to which she gave prompt explanations which checked out. She was made to relive that day she was caught sexting on the cell phone. I made sure she felt the hurt and I made sure she was humiliated again about the words that were contained in that conversation. I told MW "you had an emotional affair" and the sooner you admit that and make amends for it the sooner we will come to a true R over this. I told MW that all the required components were all there and even if she didn't think it was an EA doesn't mean it wasn't one. 

I also told her I will be checking her phone at random times and she is to give me zero hassle. She doesn't know that right after confronting her I promptly went to city hall and filed divorce papers. She will be shown these if I get any hassle or any problems with compliance. I will also sign them and keep them at the bank in a SD box so they wil be secure. I was calm with her for the most part...cold but she could already see that. As for her Male Friend..the one I have to thanks for this one hell of a dragging thread which has gotten everyone all got and bothered that I haven't crucified her sooner..well his number has been removed as well with the same stipulation for monitoring of communications. 

MW cried when I told her how incredibly deep her actions affected me and our marriage. I explained to her that activities with other men while being married to me is considered to be dating another man. She gave me a perplexed look which I totally expected but she later understood when I told her. I told her that I was protecting our marriage, our children and myself. I made sure she knew in no uncertain terms that I don't need her to be a better father or a better man and that I choose to have her as a part of my life. She told me that she didn't really understand how deeply she has hurt me until now and that she didn't quite "get it" until today. She told me she's going to try and be totally open, honest and forthcoming with me. I told her that at this point I had no reason to believe a single word of it and that her actions will tell me just how sorry she truly is. I am keeping both barrels on her and she knows I can pull the trigger on her whenever I want. Sorry this response is long but I have a lot to answer here. The question of manhood and the spine I am considered to be lacking to other members of TAM.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Trusting my gut and saying "see ya". I don't believe this went down nearly as described.

Without asking you to clarify some odd inconsistencies (like you said you've already "filed for divorce" but are going to keep those papers safe and sound in a deposit box without telling her - what does that even mean? Does that mean you got paperwork, got it and filled out out, or got it, filled it out, and actually filed it?), I think you are far too weak to carry out any of the passive-aggressive threats you claim you made. Your talk is full of the right stuff, but my gut is screaming that this is all still just talk.

Actually, it's pretend macho rug-sweeping. You talk tough to us but you are not holding her responsible for not only things like the phone, but the lies and deceit. You want this to go away worse than she does. You desperately want to move forward without fixing what was broken in her and you. I hope I'm wrong.

It's not "tough" or manly to go get divorce papers and then hide them from your wife. It's laughably insecure. You haven't even threatened her with them yet, because you're terrified she'll think it's a swell idea.

Let me just say that I wish you well, I hope you fix what's broken in you that makes you so afraid of your wife, and I hope you actually did even half of the melodramatic bluster you posted here.

I'm guessing you never looked at any of the materials we all recommended, like "No More Mr. Nice Guy", "Not Just Friends", or "Married Man's Sex Life". I'm guessing you never read any other threads of BH's from start to finish to learn. I know this, because you would not be still behaving like a frightened child. I'm also guessing you STILL think you are somehow better and smarter, or your marriage so very different, from the hundreds if not thousands of people on these pages who have gone before you.

And while 8 years is laudable, my WW went off the rails after 19 YEARS. Your 8-year marriage is not in any way immune.

I'm really afraid I'll see you here in 6 months telling us she left you. But maybe not; you don't seem like the kind of guy who'd ever come back and admit he was wrong.


ETA: OP, this is your future, and there are dozens more here if you humble yourself enough to learn from the mistakes of others:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...-contact-ea-partner-again-after-8-months.html


----------



## aug

Lilly_daddy said:


> MW cried when I told her how incredibly deep her actions affected me and our marriage. I explained to her that activities with other men while being married to me is considered to be dating another man. She gave me a perplexed look which I totally expected but she later understood when I told her. I told her that I was protecting our marriage, our children and myself. I made sure she knew in no uncertain terms that *I don't need her to be a better father or a better man *and that I choose to have her as a part of my life. She told me that she didn't really understand how deeply she has hurt me until now and that she didn't quite "get it" until today. She told me she's going to try and be totally open, honest and forthcoming with me. I told her that at this point I had no reason to believe a single word of it and that her actions will tell me just how sorry she truly is. I am keeping both barrels on her and she knows I can pull the trigger on her whenever I want. Sorry this response is long but I have a lot to answer here. The question of manhood and the spine I am considered to be lacking to other members of TAM.


Ummm... what that this mean?


----------



## TRy

Lilly_daddy said:


> MW was sat down yesterday and promptly told under no circumstances will she be getting her phone in her own name. In order to produce transparency I am going to arrange for both of us to be able to at any time monitor text messages and incoming and outgoing phone calls with ease. I have nothing to hide so it is not big deal to me if this is done.





Lilly_daddy said:


> I also told her I will be checking her phone at random times and she is to give me zero hassle.


 Good job. It is your life and your marriage. You are being strong and taking action, while giving it one more try to save your marriage. If it does not work out, you can end the marraige knowing that you did your best. I wish you luck.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Divorce Application has been submitted. Waiting for it to be processed. I have a feeling I am going to need it when it comes to crunch time. I told MW that I don't need her in my life to complete me as a person and that I am independent enough to be a good father to the kids. When the papers are received she will get a healthy dose of what consequences for her actions have brought upon her. I have imagined a life without her and it excites and scares me all at the same time. I can do it on my own for me and the kids. It will be the hardest thing I have ever done but will be worth it in the end. Divorce has been threatened towards MW if you read the previous posts when I had her cease all activity with the OM. She did it without question. I will be here in six months because saving my marriage will be an ongoing process that will require hard work. I don't imagine an overnight success will be evident but it's a start.


----------



## InlandTXMM

I will be the first to cheer for you in six months, regardless of which way the marriage goes, IF YOU ARE STANDING TALL AND PROUD IN A LIFE OF YOUR CHOOSING.

Best wishes to you.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

InlandTXMM said:


> I will be the first to cheer for you in six months, regardless of which way the marriage goes, IF YOU ARE STANDING TALL AND PROUD IN A LIFE OF YOUR CHOOSING.
> 
> Best wishes to you.


 Thank You. I will be standing tall no matter what. This will be a life of my choosing which will include not being a bloody doormat nor a place to plant your feet when walking out the door. MW has been told where the door is and having it hit her in the a$$ on her way out would be a courtesy compared to what she gets from me afterwards. As for the D papers. It cost me $167 to file which was happily lent to me by a good friend of mine who supports me all the way. She's gonna know about the papers BEFORE they get put away for safe keeping so that she doesn't attempt to take them. That's the only reason I'm doing that. 

If it comes to D I will also be remaining in the matrimonial home which I am entitled to do as long as it can be proven that all aspects of the relationship are kept separate not including financial responsibilities with our kids and the expenses for the house. I've been researching what I can and can't do until I can set up a consult with a lawyer. I don't yet have any sourced out.


----------



## just got it 55

Lilly_daddy said:


> I would like to thank everyone who has provided their own brand of revenge justice and for those who have pushed on many occasions to have me simply throw away an 8 year marriage over the course of events that have spanned less than a year. I am well aware of what everyone has been through here and I am fairly new to this brand of marital infidelity. Let me end my mini rant by adding that no ones situation can possibly be identical. No one can profess to know what is going on in the homes of those who have been betrayed and no one can possibly expect another person to simply throw away a life based on a simple forum post!
> 
> Having got that out of the way lets get onto the meat. MW was sat down yesterday and promptly told under no circumstances will she be getting her phone in her own name. In order to produce transparency I am going to arrange for both of us to be able to at any time monitor text messages and incoming and outgoing phone calls with ease. I have nothing to hide so it is not big deal to me if this is done. She was confronted with the information...well lets call it concrete proof that she had the ex-bf's cell # hidden in her phone. She attempted a back track but I stopped her there. I told her she was not required to give an explanation because it would not be accepted an anything other than Bull sh*t. She had a look of shock on her face when told that. I deleted the contact # from her phone and I grilled her about the remaining names and contacts in her phone to which she gave prompt explanations which checked out. She was made to relive that day she was caught sexting on the cell phone. I made sure she felt the hurt and I made sure she was humiliated again about the words that were contained in that conversation. I told MW "you had an emotional affair" and the sooner you admit that and make amends for it the sooner we will come to a true R over this. I told MW that all the required components were all there and even if she didn't think it was an EA doesn't mean it wasn't one.
> 
> I also told her I will be checking her phone at random times and she is to give me zero hassle. She doesn't know that right after confronting her I promptly went to city hall and filed divorce papers. She will be shown these if I get any hassle or any problems with compliance. I will also sign them and keep them at the bank in a SD box so they wil be secure. I was calm with her for the most part...cold but she could already see that. As for her Male Friend..the one I have to thanks for this one hell of a dragging thread which has gotten everyone all got and bothered that I haven't crucified her sooner..well his number has been removed as well with the same stipulation for monitoring of communications.
> 
> MW cried when I told her how incredibly deep her actions affected me and our marriage. I explained to her that activities with other men while being married to me is considered to be dating another man. She gave me a perplexed look which I totally expected but she later understood when I told her. I told her that I was protecting our marriage, our children and myself. I made sure she knew in no uncertain terms that I don't need her to be a better father or a better man and that I choose to have her as a part of my life. She told me that she didn't really understand how deeply she has hurt me until now and that she didn't quite "get it" until today. She told me she's going to try and be totally open, honest and forthcoming with me. I told her that at this point I had no reason to believe a single word of it and that her actions will tell me just how sorry she truly is. I am keeping both barrels on her and she knows I can pull the trigger on her whenever I want. Sorry this response is long but I have a lot to answer here. The question of manhood and the spine I am considered to be lacking to other members of TAM.


LD I am just hoping that you mean what you say and back up those words with actions consistant with WHAT YOU SAY

55


----------



## Lilly_daddy

just got it 55 said:


> LD I am just hoping that you mean what you say and back up those words with actions consistant with WHAT YOU SAY
> 
> 55


Right now as it stands MW knows I will back up what I say given the last exchange we both had. I have already signed us both up so we can both see what the other is doing. Not simply because the trust issue is with her but mostly to make her more accountable for her actions. If there is the total transparency between us it basically makes her more accountable if I find her attempting to hide other things from me even though I took a look at her phone just yesterday, only a couple of hours after she returned home. This isn't me asking to see her phone...it's just me picking it up and taking a look before she gets a preview of something on there she might want to delete before letting me see it. I have no problem cutting her loose as I have the more supportive system in place including her own parents. They all know of her indiscretions and have very little respect for her actions right now. She's been "left out in the cold" so-to-speak.


----------



## bfree

Just remember that you are in control. No negotiations. No deals. No more chances. You must respect yourself above all. I wish you all the best and pray for a successful reconciliation for both of you.


----------



## just got it 55

Lilly_daddy said:


> Right now as it stands MW knows I will back up what I say given the last exchange we both had. I have already signed us both up so we can both see what the other is doing. Not simply because the trust issue is with her but mostly to make her more accountable for her actions. If there is the total transparency between us it basically makes her more accountable if I find her attempting to hide other things from me even though I took a look at her phone just yesterday, only a couple of hours after she returned home. This isn't me asking to see her phone...it's just me picking it up and taking a look before she gets a preview of something on there she might want to delete before letting me see it. I have no problem cutting her loose as I have the more supportive system in place including her own parents. They all know of her indiscretions and have very little respect for her actions right now. She's been "left out in the cold" so-to-speak.


LD you have my support whatever you choose to do

Just do what you say you are going to do otherwise you will look weak to your self & children

55


----------



## sandc

Does she have any money of her own? I'm thinking she will just buy a burner phone. But hopefully not. Hopefully she meant everything she told you.


----------



## carmen ohio

Lilly_daddy said:


> I would like to thank everyone who has provided their own brand of revenge justice and for those who have pushed on many occasions to have me simply throw away an 8 year marriage over the course of events that have spanned less than a year. I am well aware of what everyone has been through here and I am fairly new to this brand of marital infidelity. Let me end my mini rant by adding that no ones situation can possibly be identical. No one can profess to know what is going on in the homes of those who have been betrayed and no one can possibly expect another person to simply throw away a life based on a simple forum post!
> 
> Having got that out of the way lets get onto the meat. MW was sat down yesterday and promptly told under no circumstances will she be getting her phone in her own name. In order to produce transparency I am going to arrange for both of us to be able to at any time monitor text messages and incoming and outgoing phone calls with ease. I have nothing to hide so it is not big deal to me if this is done. She was confronted with the information...well lets call it concrete proof that she had the ex-bf's cell # hidden in her phone. She attempted a back track but I stopped her there. I told her she was not required to give an explanation because it would not be accepted an anything other than Bull sh*t. She had a look of shock on her face when told that. I deleted the contact # from her phone and I grilled her about the remaining names and contacts in her phone to which she gave prompt explanations which checked out. She was made to relive that day she was caught sexting on the cell phone. I made sure she felt the hurt and I made sure she was humiliated again about the words that were contained in that conversation. *I told MW "you had an emotional affair" and the sooner you admit that and make amends for it the sooner we will come to a true R over this.* I told MW that all the required components were all there and even if she didn't think it was an EA doesn't mean it wasn't one.
> 
> I also told her I will be checking her phone at random times and she is to give me zero hassle. *She doesn't know that right after confronting her I promptly went to city hall and filed divorce papers. She will be shown these if I get any hassle or any problems with compliance. I will also sign them and keep them at the bank in a SD box so they wil be secure.* I was calm with her for the most part...cold but she could already see that. As for her Male Friend..the one I have to thanks for this one hell of a dragging thread which has gotten everyone all got and bothered that I haven't crucified her sooner..well his number has been removed as well with the same stipulation for monitoring of communications.
> 
> MW cried when I told her how incredibly deep her actions affected me and our marriage. I explained to her that activities with other men while being married to me is considered to be dating another man. She gave me a perplexed look which I totally expected but she later understood when I told her. *I told her that I was protecting our marriage,* our children and myself. I made sure she knew in no uncertain terms that I don't need her to be a better father or a better man and that I choose to have her as a part of my life. She told me that she didn't really understand how deeply she has hurt me until now and that she didn't quite "get it" until today. She told me she's going to try and be totally open, honest and forthcoming with me. I told her that at this point I had no reason to believe a single word of it and that her actions will tell me just how sorry she truly is. *I am keeping both barrels on her and she knows I can pull the trigger on her whenever I want.* Sorry this response is long but I have a lot to answer here. The question of manhood and the spine I am considered to be lacking to other members of TAM.





Lilly_daddy said:


> *Divorce Application has been submitted. Waiting for it to be processed.* I have a feeling I am going to need it when it comes to crunch time. I told MW that I don't need her in my life to complete me as a person and that I am independent enough to be a good father to the kids. *When the papers are received she will get a healthy dose of what consequences for her actions have brought upon her.* I have imagined a life without her and it excites and scares me all at the same time. I can do it on my own for me and the kids. It will be the hardest thing I have ever done but will be worth it in the end. *Divorce has been threatened towards MW if you read the previous posts when I had her cease all activity with the OM.* She did it without question. *I will be here in six months because saving my marriage will be an ongoing process that will require hard work. I don't imagine an overnight success will be evident but it's a start.*


Dear Lilly_daddy,

I like that you have finally stood up to your WW but I am confused about what you doing. Some of your statements (see the *bolded green*) indicate that you are giving your WW chance to save her marriage. But you also say (see the *bolded red*) that you have filed for divorce (although she doesn't know this). The *bolded blue* statement, that you _"can pull the trigger whenever [you] want"_ is especially confusing, as it would seem that you have already pulled the trigger.

Here's a link that you may find helpful: Introduction to the Divorce Process - Divorce - Guide - LegalZoom. I also suggest you speak to a lawyer soon.

Wishing you the best.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

What I have done here is tried to assure myself some form of protection on multiple fronts. MW has expressed wishes to truly want to save the marriage by offering to ease my mind by proving herself via polygraph which I find reassuring to some degree. What I don't like is that she contradicts her statement of wanting to ease my mind by getting caught in these lies which she states are lapses in judgement. She even offered to call the OM to confirm whether or not she has made contact. I did have her phone blocked from sending him text messages or phone calls which does actually work since it's a network based block. 

Being able to pull the trigger is actually signing and proceeding with the next stage of the D process which most definitely assuredly ends the Marriage and continues with separation which I plan on remaining in the matrimonial home for the year. I have effectively pulled the trigger yes and I feel as though there are very fine lines separating each aspect of this procedure.

Once I am totally convinced things can be saved through MC and R then and only then will things improve to the point where I can put the D on hold or dismiss it all together and live some semblance of a normal married life...whatever that might be.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

My consult will be some time over the next two weeks


----------



## Deceit

LD, dude this is a long term game. It doesn't matter short term at all. Proving anything to us doesn't mean crap. Dude, I think you know whats going on. 
It just sucks to admit it. 
Poor mate selection.
sorry man. 
The sooner you see it, the better for everyone.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## InlandTXMM

Lilly_daddy said:


> What I have done here is tried to assure myself some form of protection on multiple fronts. MW has expressed wishes to truly want to save the marriage by offering to ease my mind by proving herself via polygraph which I find reassuring to some degree. What I don't like is that she contradicts her statement of wanting to ease my mind by getting caught in these lies which she states are lapses in judgement. She even offered to call the OM to confirm whether or not she has made contact. I did have her phone blocked from sending him text messages or phone calls which does actually work since it's a network based block.
> 
> Being able to pull the trigger is actually signing and proceeding with the next stage of the D process which most definitely assuredly ends the Marriage and continues with separation which I plan on remaining in the matrimonial home for the year. I have effectively pulled the trigger yes and I feel as though there are very fine lines separating each aspect of this procedure.
> 
> Once I am totally convinced things can be saved through MC and R then and only then will things improve to the point where I can put the D on hold or dismiss it all together and live some semblance of a normal married life...whatever that might be.


Maybe I am not understanding the legal process where you live, but how do you file for divorce and NOT serve the other spouse? A divorce is a legal suit. You can't bring suit against a party and not inform them.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Lilly_daddy said:


> MW has expressed wishes to truly want to save the marriage by offering to ease my mind by proving herself via polygraph which I find reassuring to some degree.


Yeah well, it's just talk until she actually takes a poly.

If you schedule one, you'll start hearing about things she hadn't told you "because she didn't want to hurt you anymore".

Her saying it doesn't mean a thing until she follows through and does it...


----------



## Lilly_daddy

InlandTXMM said:


> Maybe I am not understanding the legal process where you live, but how do you file for divorce and NOT serve the other spouse? A divorce is a legal suit. You can't bring suit against a party and not inform them.


The paperwork has simply been filed. I paid the amount and sent it off. It's more like a petition than anything else.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Lilly_daddy said:


> ....
> I made sure she knew in no uncertain terms that I don't need her to be a better father or a better man and that I choose to have her as a part of my life. She told me that she didn't really understand how deeply she has hurt me until now and that she didn't quite "get it" until today. She told me she's going to try and be totally open, honest and forthcoming with me. I told her that at this point I had no reason to believe a single word of it and that her actions will tell me just how sorry she truly is. I am keeping both barrels on her and she knows I can pull the trigger on her whenever I want. Sorry this response is long but I have a lot to answer here. The question of manhood and the spine I am considered to be lacking to other members of TAM.


I am glad to see you 'Manned Up', but that is not despite the posters here, but thanks to them. Be real and acknowledge that. Most was not about doing away with your wife but with doing away with your own old way of behaving.


----------



## illwill

Yep. You needed to be called out. Now that you grew those balls, you gotta do something with them. 

Never allow anyone to disrespect you like this again. What a man will or will not tolerate defines who he is.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

For sure I have been helped here. To gain a measurable amount of self respect and to realize my own self worth. MW has learned something about what I will and won't tolerate with regards to her behaviour and just what I expect from my marriage as her husband. I don't want a one sided marriage...I need respect, honesty and transparency in order for things to work. She might not have known that before but she sure does now.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Well it's not much of an update but MW and I are trying to piece things back together. She still doesn't want to admit she had an EA. She thinks that two days of text messaging with an ex-bf who was known for utilizing dirty talk was not an EA even though she made the mistake of returning the favor with some innuendos she still doesn't think it's an EA. I clearly told her that just because she doesn't think it was an EA doesn't mean it wasn't one. It meets all the criteria for an EA, hence the "if it walks like a duck analogy". 

So she's straightened up her act, tells me where she's going and with whom. I even get regular updates and recently she had her phone stolen from the local Walmart. She was the victim of a distraction theft just last week. Her phone and credit card were taken from the nail salon while she was paying for the service. I have had her phone totally disabled and it is now a paperweight. It can't even be activated on another plan because it is exclusively a Rogers account and even the IMEI number has been flagged therefore the phone cannot be used by anyone else. I had my doubts about what she told me but the person at the nail place confirmed a man bumped into MW and at the same time she turned around to see what he was doing there someone else reached over and took her phone and CC while she was looking at the male. 

So she gets a new phone on Friday of this week. I took her to several places where she attempted to thwart my plans of getting her phone on a network based program which enables text messages to be sent from your computer. Well this is the same program I had MW's phone on before when I had originally caught her with the ex-bf. I told her straight up if she was not going to give me transparency then she knows where the front door is and she can use it to get the f**k out. She has been attempting to have her phone either put on a pay as you go plan or with another carrier where it cannot be monitored. I have given he the ability to do the same with my cell phone because I simply have nothing to hide on my end. This program also allows users to view incoming and outgoing calls.

Right now there has been nothing on VAR's in the car. I do have one that I just got last week for the house. I keep moving it from the living room to the bedroom when I am away at work and I'm not there at night. I also have remote access to my router so I am able to switch the wifi off from any computer. MW has expressed interest in getting an ipod which I will be denying as well because she is aware of the messaging function on it and I'm not taking any chances at her using other methods of communication. I am giving her no other way of communication other than the one we use for each other and I told her if she didn't like it then my offer of showing her where the front door is still stands..


----------



## nogutsnoglory

Lilly_daddy said:


> Well it's not much of an update but MW and I are trying to piece things back together. She still doesn't want to admit she had an EA. She thinks that two days of text messaging with an ex-bf who was known for utilizing dirty talk was not an EA even though she made the mistake of returning the favor with some innuendos she still doesn't think it's an EA. I clearly told her that just because she doesn't think it was an EA doesn't mean it wasn't one. It meets all the criteria for an EA, hence the "if it walks like a duck analogy".
> 
> So she's straightened up her act, tells me where she's going and with whom. I even get regular updates and recently she had her phone stolen from the local Walmart. She was the victim of a distraction theft just last week. Her phone and credit card were taken from the nail salon while she was paying for the service. I have had her phone totally disabled and it is now a paperweight. It can't even be activated on another plan because it is exclusively a Rogers account and even the IMEI number has been flagged therefore the phone cannot be used by anyone else. I had my doubts about what she told me but the person at the nail place confirmed a man bumped into MW and at the same time she turned around to see what he was doing there someone else reached over and took her phone and CC while she was looking at the male.
> 
> So she gets a new phone on Friday of this week. I took her to several places where she attempted to thwart my plans of getting her phone on a network based program which enables text messages to be sent from your computer. Well this is the same program I had MW's phone on before when I had originally caught her with the ex-bf. I told her straight up if she was not going to give me transparency then she knows where the front door is and she can use it to get the f**k out. She has been attempting to have her phone either put on a pay as you go plan or with another carrier where it cannot be monitored. I have given he the ability to do the same with my cell phone because I simply have nothing to hide on my end. This program also allows users to view incoming and outgoing calls.
> 
> Right now there has been nothing on VAR's in the car. I do have one that I just got last week for the house. I keep moving it from the living room to the bedroom when I am away at work and I'm not there at night. I also have remote access to my router so I am able to switch the wifi off from any computer. MW has expressed interest in getting an ipod which I will be denying as well because she is aware of the messaging function on it and I'm not taking any chances at her using other methods of communication. I am giving her no other way of communication other than the one we use for each other and I told her if she didn't like it then my offer of showing her where the front door is still stands..


What is her reasoning for needing to have a phone that can't be monitored. Seems a bit obvious from where I sit.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

MW uses the argument that she doesn't want me seeing texts from her female friends because they might be personal in nature. I told her that I'm clearly not as interested in texts she received from close female friends simply because I am aware that those texts will be just regular communication with her. 


My reasoning behind it is simple..nothing to hide is NOTHING to hide..everything should be on the table. I have been telling MW that in this marriage we should have absolutely no secrets and that the only privacy we should have is when we use the washroom. She finds it funny at times but I have told her straight up if this is going to work then we have to be totally visible to one another.


----------



## the guy

Its a good sign your old lady is excepting all these consequences.

I went through the same crap with regards to my old lady and her friends. I too told her the same thing but also added " you should have though about that when you decided to cheat, now you have to rebuild that trust.." all her friends now the deal so now they just talk on the phone.

I mean really do we really care to read a text about who's husband went to Jerad and who's didn't? 

One thing I found interesting is now that my old lady is being monitored all the toxic friends stopped contacting her... they lost another wing man.


----------



## tom67

Lilly_daddy said:


> MW uses the argument that she doesn't want me seeing texts from her female friends because they might be personal in nature. I told her that I'm clearly not as interested in texts she received from close female friends simply because I am aware that those texts will be just regular communication with her.
> 
> 
> My reasoning behind it is simple..nothing to hide is NOTHING to hide..everything should be on the table. I have been telling MW that in this marriage we should have absolutely no secrets and that the only privacy we should have is when we use the washroom. She finds it funny at times but I have told her straight up if this is going to work then we have to be totally visible to one another.


She is just one sh!t test after another bro.
This will become old being a full time prison warden I wish you luck.


----------



## movin on

tom67 said:


> She is just one sh!t test after another bro.
> This will become old being a full time prison warden I wish you luck.


Yeah this has no good outcome for op. Seems like she keeps pushing him to see what she can get away with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lilly_daddy

As it stands now she isn't pushing to see what she can get away with. It's been quiet, calm and Christmas is bringing us a bit closer. MW has even reconciled with her Mother and we will be going there for Christmas Day. Now that the issues have been dealt with to a degree with ongoing MC there has been an opportunity to move forward. The only issue has been transparency which is what we both need. There has been a lack of that with us and mostly on her part there has been secretive behaviour and deception. I keep telling her no more and I'm showing her that there's to be no more also. She sees actions as more proof of what I am willing to do for us rather than just saying it.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I'm not looking to be her jailer...it's exhaustive and it serves no purpose. This back and forth cat and mouse bulls**t makes me ill most days. I have always just wanted to trust and I thought I could until now...


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Lilly_daddy said:


> I'm not looking to be her jailer...it's exhaustive and it serves no purpose. .


 If the watching makes you ill and exhausted let her have the privacy, understand she can cheat, stop complaining, let her do what she wants and live with it.

Sorry for being blunt, but if she can't understand how you got to this place you'll either need to leave or accept what I said as the truth. Yes, being a jailer sucks, but that's not your role. All you want is honesty and she keeps testing your boundaries.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

phillybeffandswiss said:


> If the watching makes you ill and exhausted let her have the privacy, understand she can cheat, stop complaining, let her do what she wants and live with it.
> 
> Sorry for being blunt, but if she can't understand how you got to this place you'll either need to leave or accept what I said as the truth. Yes, being a jailer sucks, but that's not your role. All you want is honesty and she keeps testing your boundaries.


:iagree:...Honesty is always the best option. I have to believe that on some level she must want some normalcy. Well Merry Christmas To All..Happy Holidays and all that good Stuff. Time to take a break for a bit.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Lilly_daddy said:


> :iagree:...Honesty is always the best option. I have to believe that on some level she must want some *normalcy*. Well Merry Christmas To All..Happy Holidays and all that good Stuff. Time to take a break for a bit.


"Normalcy" to her is a phone that you can't monitor. 

Keep those D papers handy, as you ain't even close to being out of the woods on this one.

I think now that the Jeanie has been let out of the bottle, it's only a matter of time...


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Well the phone is en route this Friday. She will have no choice but to hand over transparency. Also I have it set up so I will have the username/password for her phone and she will have it for mine that way there is no deleting of messages. Today I finally got it through to her that she needs to do this to prove herself to me and that this will pave the road for R.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Lilly_daddy said:


> Well the phone is en route this Friday. *She will have no choice but to hand over transparency.* Also I have it set up so I will have the username/password for her phone and she will have it for mine that way there is no deleting of messages. Today I finally got it through to her that she needs to do this to prove herself to me and that this will pave the road for R.


I'm sorry but if she is being forced into setting good boundaries and giving you full transparency, she's not going to do it on her own.

How long are you willing to go high spy on her to verify she's doing the right things?

How long before she gets a burner phone?

I've personally seen this forced adherence to "the rules" and it never sticks. As soon as the BS backs off and gets complacent, the WS starts checking out again.

They have to want to at least try and do it on there own for any long term success.


----------



## tom67

Lilly_daddy said:


> :iagree:...Honesty is always the best option. I have to believe that on some level she must want some normalcy. Well Merry Christmas To All..Happy Holidays and all that good Stuff. Time to take a break for a bit.


You have to show her that you are more than willing to move on both through words and actions.


----------



## sandc

Until she has a heart change, she is just going to keep looking for ways to get around your monitoring. She knows she'll always have you to fall back on so she's not worried about losing you. She can see how worried you are about losing her. She's got nothing to lose.


----------



## Stillawsome

If you want to monitor her without her knowing Rogers has something called extreme text. Google it. 
You can have all text messages forwarded to an email that only you know about. 
You need the phone to set it up but you can remove all of your tracks before you give her back the phone and she would never know.
It only works on SMS. If the two people are using imessage it does not capture that unfortunately.

Good Luck


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Thanks for the information...I have extreme texting and will be using that as a back up method. Yesterday MW made the deman to have all credit card bills for the last year. She said she thought I was hiding something which I know was just a ploy because as soon as i told her I wasn't playing her game she then said "well I'm not letting you monitor my phone then". I then told her in a calm cold voice "then you know where the door is". She looked bone white and began to cry then left the house. She went to a friends house for a couple of hours and from there her friend called me and said MW was very sorry and that she wanted to come home. I said she could. The friend of hers I spoke with on the phone was cheated on more than once by her boyfriend who is now her fiance'. They managed to find happiness together and she knew all about triggers which she educated MW on. MW came back crying her eyes out and was weeping when she apologized to me.


----------



## LostViking

Lilly_daddy said:


> Thanks for the information...I have extreme texting and will be using that as a back up method. Yesterday MW made the deman to have all credit card bills for the last year. She said she thought I was hiding something which I know was just a ploy because as soon as i told her I wasn't playing her game she then said "well I'm not letting you monitor my phone then". I then told her in a calm cold voice "then you know where the door is". She looked bone white and began to cry then left the house. She went to a friends house for a couple of hours and from there her friend called me and said MW was very sorry and that she wanted to come home. I said she could. The friend of hers I spoke with on the phone was cheated on more than once by her boyfriend who is now her fiance'. They managed to find happiness together and she knew all about triggers which she educated MW on. MW came back crying her eyes out and was weeping when she apologized to me.


She's a child. 

You married a freakin' child. How much more of this can you stand?


----------



## Lilly_daddy

LostViking said:


> She's a child.
> 
> You married a freakin' child. How much more of this can you stand?


 Yeah I know...to a certain degree it's almost like she's a teenager that can't get her own way and then she runs out of the house threatening to never come back. I even told her "I don't need you, I choose to want you as My Wife and that I didn't need her around to be a good father to the kids".

She certainly is trying everything possible to avoid having her text messages monitored. It's got to be freaking her out to know that her text messages are going to be constantly there for me to see whenever I want. I don't get how she can think that being even more open and honest is going to bring even more turmoil...then again she didn't count on getting caught either.


----------



## Stronger-now

Lilly_daddy said:


> Yeah I know...to a certain degree it's almost like she's a teenager that can't get her own way and then she runs out of the house threatening to never come back. I even told her "I don't need you, I choose to want you as My Wife and that I didn't need her around to be a good father to the kids".
> 
> She certainly is trying everything possible to avoid having her text messages monitored.* It's got to be freaking her out to know that her text messages are going to be constantly there for me to see whenever I want*. I don't get how she can think that being even more open and honest is going to bring even more turmoil...then again she didn't count on getting caught either.


The more pressing question is why. Why is she freaking out? 

I don't buy her excuse about not wanting you to read her text messages with her girlfriends. Unless you are the type that gossip about a woman you know who just got a boob job, or freaking out because she finds grey hair down there, I don't see why she is freaking out. Since she is asking for another chance, it's a not that big of a deal. It shouldn't be.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

What it is for her, if I can take a shot in the dark here is that she has always been a private person and when she was younger her mother had always invaded her privacy. This is something she has never had to provide before. I was privy to her text messaging activity before and was witness to the things she would tell people and I would just think to myself "this is a friend you just lied to" and she would hold preference of one friend over another and keep things and hide information and basically spread rumours and backtalk. MW has had a wall up for a long time. Even before I met her she didn't trust anyone and it takes so long to establish that trust and a split second to lose it for any reason at all. MW has depression (manic) and has been pre-diagnosed as being bi-polar and as a narcissistic personality disorder. Even as a kid her Mother would always say that no matter what the topic of conversation she would always find a way to steer it towards something about her, always had a defense mechanism and was unapproachable because she would take everything personal. Pretty much a hyper sensitive personality type. She has asked me if I would prefer her to not have a phone...I told her no, she needs to have a phone for emergencies. it made me think she would have an alternate form of communication but I even told her that there's always face to face communication.


----------



## verpin zal

Lilly_daddy said:


> Thanks for the information...I have extreme texting and will be using that as a back up method. Yesterday MW made the deman to have all credit card bills for the last year. She said she thought I was hiding something which I know was just a ploy because as soon as i told her I wasn't playing her game *she then said "well I'm not letting you monitor my phone then".* I then told her in a calm cold voice "then you know where the door is". She looked bone white and began to cry then left the house. She went to a friends house for a couple of hours and from there her friend called me and said MW was very sorry and that she wanted to come home. I said she could. The friend of hers I spoke with on the phone was cheated on more than once by her boyfriend who is now her fiance'. They managed to find happiness together and she knew all about triggers which she educated MW on. MW came back crying her eyes out and was weeping when she apologized to me.


----------



## manfromlamancha

This really sounds like this marriage is over but neither of you are recognising it for what it is.


----------



## ThePheonix

Lilly my man, you can put up with a hellofa a lot more crap than I ever could; I've got to give you that. In the final analysis, I have to ask you why you want to.


----------



## Will_Kane

Lilly_daddy said:


> I was privy to her text messaging activity before and was witness to the things she would tell people and I would just think to myself "this is a friend you just lied to" and she would hold preference of one friend over another and keep things and hide information and basically spread rumours and backtalk.


So she doesn't want you to see her texts because she feels uncomfortable with you knowing what a hypocrite she is with her friends? She likes to trash-talk some of her friends and will feel funny if you know about it?



Lilly_daddy said:


> MW has depression (manic) and has been pre-diagnosed as being bi-polar and as a narcissistic personality disorder.


I wish you well.


----------



## lordmayhem

*Re: Re: My Wife's Married Male Friend*



phillybeffandswiss said:


> If the watching makes you ill and exhausted let her have the privacy, understand she can cheat, stop complaining, let her do what she wants and live with it.
> 
> Sorry for being blunt, but if she can't understand how you got to this place you'll either need to leave or accept what I said as the truth. Yes, being a jailer sucks, but that's not your role. All you want is honesty and she keeps testing your boundaries.


A truly remorseful WS welcomes the scrutiny so they can show they are truthful and interested in rebuilding trust.

This particular WW is not remorseful and this will just end up as False R.


----------



## workindad

Lilly_daddy said:


> *She certainly is trying everything possible to avoid having her text messages monitored. * It's got to be freaking her out to know that her text messages are going to be constantly there for me to see whenever I want. I don't get how she can think that being even more open and honest is going to bring even more turmoil...then again she didn't count on getting caught either.


Why do you think that she is reacting this way. Honestly, if she has nothing to hide from you, it wouldn't be a big deal. Sounds like she'll have to work harder at hiding her future affairs from you and she's upset by the thought of the extra effort.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Yeah no kidding. She asked me recently how long will I be monitoring her phone? Like she thinks it's a temporary thing or something. She says what if she blocks the numbers I want her to..then will I be satisfied. I told her it's an ongoing thing and it's something she will just have to get used to. she said she would almost not even have a phone.


----------



## thummper

Hi LD. I've perused your thread and I noticed that you caught your WS sexting an old boyfriend and that she was engaged in what might be considered at the very least an EA with a friend she was going out on photographic excursions. I'm confused as to whether or not you feel the EA had gone further than that. Did she stray? Please excuse this if you've already thoroughly explained it. I'm not always swift on the uptake.


----------



## vi_bride04

*Re: Re: My Wife's Married Male Friend*



Lilly_daddy said:


> I told her it's an ongoing thing and it's something she will just have to get used to. she said she would almost not even have a phone.


Well...that shows how much she is remorseful...not one bit


----------



## Lilly_daddy

thummper said:


> Hi LD. I've perused your thread and I noticed that you caught your WS sexting an old boyfriend and that she was engaged in what might be considered at the very least an EA with a friend she was going out on photographic excursions. I'm confused as to whether or not you feel the EA had gone further than that. Did she stray? Please excuse this if you've already thoroughly explained it. I'm not always swift on the uptake.


I have no reason to think that the EA was really even that. Part of me just thinks it was a friendship that crossed boundaries that I had and I needed to put a stop to it or else it might have become something else. From the text messages they exchanged I would say at least it was an inappropriate friendship that crossed boundaries of personal comfort but on the whole I have no reason to think it became physical. MW probably had a little crush on him, maybe not even that but the sexting is what really started all this. MW won't even admit it was an EA with the ex. I did tell her she was pretty much dating the male friend though which she found really "out there".


----------



## Lilly_daddy

I feel she did feel "entitled' to spend time with the male friend and had intentionally made me feel jealous and very uncomfortable about it.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Lilly_daddy said:


> I did tell her she was pretty much dating the male friend though which she found really "out there".


Yes, until you do it or she caught you in the same situation.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Lilly_daddy said:


> *I have no reason to think that the EA was really even that.* Part of me just thinks it was a friendship that crossed boundaries that I had and I needed to put a stop to it or else it might have become something else. From the text messages they exchanged I would say at least it was an inappropriate friendship that crossed boundaries of personal comfort but on the whole I have no reason to think it became physical. MW probably had a little crush on him, maybe not even that *but the sexting is what really started all this*. MW won't even admit it was an EA with the ex. I did tell her she was pretty much dating the male friend though which she found really "out there".


Sexting is past an EA and it's a great big welcome mat for a PA.

A burner phone is in the near future for her. With in a few months, the sexting will most likely move to the next level.

I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

I suggest getting your finances in order and start planning and living like you'll be divorcing in the next few years.


----------



## lordmayhem

Lilly_daddy said:


> Yeah no kidding. She asked me recently how long will I be monitoring her phone? Like she thinks it's a temporary thing or something. She says what if she blocks the numbers I want her to..then will I be satisfied. I told her it's an ongoing thing and it's something she will just have to get used to. she said she would almost not even have a phone.


She doesn't get to determine how long it will take for you to regain trust in her. It takes quite a while to regain that trust that she destroyed. It all depends upon HER. The more open and transparent she is (without being resentful of being monitored), the quicker you will regain trust.

In fact, I think transparency should be a lifestyle change. I can pick up my fWWs phone at any time, and she doesn't mind, just as she can check mine. I have nothing to hide. For a while, I would check her phone and find nothing. This is in addition to the keylogger and the VARs. You know what happens when your WS is transparent and you continually find nothing? You begin to feel safe again, little by little. You begin to check less and less often, you may eventually even forget to check for a while. Then there may come a time when you actually cant remember when was the last time you checked. 

But I have grave reservations about your WW asking how long it will you will be checking her phone, and that she almost doesn't even want one if you're going to be checking on her. She is resentful of having to be transparent. Next thing you know, she will be telling you to get over it already.


----------



## terrence4159

groundpounder hit the nail on the head she will get a burner phone in january and since she knows how you monitor her she will take it underground and you will find out about it when you get a call from MAURY telling you he wants you on the show because your wife is pregnant and you are not the father.


----------



## tom67

terrence4159 said:


> groundpounder hit the nail on the head she will get a burner phone in january and since she knows how you monitor her she will take it underground and you will find out about it when you get a call from MAURY telling you he wants you on the show because your wife is pregnant and you are not the father.


Sadly I agree.
:iagree:


----------



## bfree

LD, I'm curious. Is she concerned that she's in danger of losing you? Does she fear the end of her marriage? If not, why not?


----------



## weightlifter

Dude I might suggest set a date. Now this is YOUR date but I would suggest setting one. Decide a date that the constant sh!t testing has to go down to normal levels or you walk. I realize it will never be zero, (women just do that) but this is constant and must be extremely draining.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

She asked me the question yesterday "what if I block the numbers you want on my phone from texting"? I told her it was not about that. It's about having that transparency and then leaving it that way. This is the way we start over...this is the way we begin anew. She told me she was going to return the phone when it arrives at the house. I told her that her not having a phone is worse for the trust issue than if she had one because there's more communication between us when she is out. She will always have face to face comms with people but this way she can at least stay in touch when she's out to let me know if she's going to stay late somewhere or if she has vehicle trouble or something else. In a way it's like going in reverse...I have less ways of knowing what she's doing now. Sounds like she wants it this way so she can do what she wants. I have basically told her she is getting the phone and that's that..I'm not letting her dictate what she can and can't do. She tells me "I think it's best I not have a cell phone until you can trust me more"..meanwhile the whole reason behind having a cell phone is so she can show me that her activities are honest and for me to see. Her idea of how that concept works seems a bit lop sided...


----------



## sandc

Dude, this is going in circles.


----------



## yeah_right

Currently in R from my H's EA. I have access to his emails, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, phone, laptop, tablet, cell phone records, etc. You name it, I check it. I don't check nearly as much as I used to but the last time I triggered, he asked if it would be better for me to remove my access? And I replied...sure, that would be better if he wants to be divorced. Needless to say, I still have full access to everything.

And you should too!


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Good lord, no offense, but your wife is being extremely childish. I tried this tactic with my parents, you know, when I was a kid. 

Me: Can I go to the party?
Parents: Sure be back by 12.
Me: But, It doesn't start until 8.
Parents: You know your curfew.
Me: Fine! I won't go.
Parents: Then don't.

Four hours was better than none. Also, I just went over earlier.

I would have said "cool, no phone." It's a sh#@t test, to see if you would capitulate about the monitoring.


----------



## workindad

She feels entitled to cheat and is not the least bit remorseful. This will certainly repeat. Although she will get better at hiding it from you.

I'm not sure how you can be successful at R with an unremorseful wayward spouse.

I do wish you well.


----------



## DavidWYoung

Why are you holding on to this POS?

I mean REALLY!

Your life is that bad?

I thought my ex wife was a head case.

I am sorry, I am not trying to be rude but I don't want any man treated this way. Life is too short for this. I have girls on the Czech border treat me better than this. Just me David


----------



## vi_bride04

*Re: Re: My Wife's Married Male Friend*



workindad said:


> She feels entitled to cheat and is not the least bit remorseful. This will certainly repeat. Although she will get better at hiding it from you.
> 
> I'm not sure how you can be successful at R with an unremorseful wayward spouse.
> 
> I do wish you well.


This!!!! If there is no remorse, you will not have a successful R...period


----------



## terrence4159

i have full access to all of my wife's accounts even her work email.....that being said i have never looked at any of it. i never asked her for it she just told me, to be honest i cant even remember half of them.


----------



## movin on

MW cried when I told her how incredibly deep her actions affected me

MW came back crying her eyes out and was weeping when she apologized to me

a couple of quotes from yopur more recent post pages 43 and 46.you draw the line in the sand and she crosses it to see what she can get away with,and if you stand firm,she turns on the water works.

she WANTS to stay in contact with ex bf.the fact she put his number in under a female friends name tells you that.


----------



## movin on

oh well at least she doesnt hide the fact that she was,is and will decieve you to stay in contact with other men


----------



## InlandTXMM

Lilly_daddy said:


> Thanks for the information...I have extreme texting and will be using that as a back up method. Yesterday MW made the deman to have all credit card bills for the last year. She said she thought I was hiding something which I know was just a ploy because as soon as i told her I wasn't playing her game she then said "well I'm not letting you monitor my phone then". I then told her in a calm cold voice "then you know where the door is". She looked bone white and began to cry then left the house. She went to a friends house for a couple of hours and from there her friend called me and said MW was very sorry and that she wanted to come home. I said she could. The friend of hers I spoke with on the phone was cheated on more than once by her boyfriend who is now her fiance'. They managed to find happiness together and she knew all about triggers which she educated MW on. MW came back crying her eyes out and was weeping when she apologized to me.


I'm a couple of pages behind since OP started posting again but, come on. This isn't the way people really act around each other. Either this is seriously badly written drama or it's an irredeemable mess with two petulant, passive-aggressive people.

"In a calm cold voice", "she looked bone white"... This is written for our benefit because we were so tough on him earlier. He's still a Nice Guy trying to give us what will get him pats on the back here. The problem is, I don't think the discussion went down anywhere near as colorfully as he describes. If he were really this tough, the sh*t tests would have ended by now, one way or the other.

48 PAGES of this, and you guys are still debating how to be open with each other as a married couple, or why that's even necessary. She pouts, you threaten, she goes pale and submits. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Pull the plug on this marriage already.


----------



## verpin zal




----------



## scatty

Until she agrees to be fully transparent with all passwords, accounts, gps tracking, VAR installed in car (without her knowing that last one) then she is still cheating. Why be with someone who requires this level of energy just to make sure she is true to you? It would exhaust me and I would grow so resentful that I would be driven to a nervous breakdown.


----------



## thummper

I wish LD's wife would post something. I'd love to hear what she has to say about what she's done and what she HASN'T done and what she sees as the future of her relationship with LD. I have no idea how that could be done, but I'd really like to get her take on all of this. Was she really looking to get "too close" to her male friend, or was she really just interested in photography? Call me a sucker, but it's within the realm of possibility that the picture taking was nothing more than, uh, picture taking and having a common interest with a friend. I guess that's the bad part of me *always* trying to see the good in everyone. I think sometimes what we see as suspicious behavior turns out to be totally innocent and blameless with no intent to betray anyone or pursue an illicit affair, be it EA or PA. Sorry, I seem to be rambling...sort of a stream of consciousness.


----------



## InlandTXMM

thummper said:


> I wish LD's wife would post something. I'd love to hear what she has to say about what she's done and what she HASN'T done and what she sees as the future of her relationship with LD. I have no idea how that could be done, but I'd really like to get her take on all of this. Was she really looking to get "too close" to her male friend, or was she really just interested in photography? Call me a sucker, but it's within the realm of possibility that the picture taking was nothing more than, uh, picture taking and having a common interest with a friend. I guess that's the bad part of me *always* trying to see the good in everyone. I think sometimes what we see as suspicious behavior turns out to be totally innocent and blameless with no intent to betray anyone or pursue an illicit affair, be it EA or PA. Sorry, I seem to be rambling...sort of a stream of consciousness.


The major problem with wanting to believe the best in people in extremely suspicious circumstances, and particularly in this case - believing that nothing physical and emotional went down with his wife and the OM - is that you must ignore your own intellect to do so. Where there is smoke, there is almost always fire, even when we desperately want there to be just smoke.

It boils down to this:

If it were innocent, she would stop seeing this guy without question. There would not be this fight to continue contact. No way would an innocent wife let some neighbor guy potentially end her marriage. IF IT WERE INNOCENT.

If she wanted the marriage to reconcile, she would act like it. He would see the evidence of it through her willingness, and even eagerness, to be transparent, to go to counseling, to spend time together, to hysterically bond, etc. He sees none of that. Instead, he makes his move, then she makes hers. She's watching him; testing him.

Lillydaddy talks a tougher game in the last dozen or so pages but his wife continues to push him to find weakness. That's because she knows him better than he does. She has been married to a weak man for a long time. I'm glad he is trying to "man up" now, but it's only to rug-sweep the previous affairs and give a really stern warning, with a frumpled brow and his best angry face, not to do it again. 

She's going to do it again. She's already looking for a way with all this talk about her own cell phone. She'll do it because she doesn't respect him enough to commit herself fully to him. A woman who respects her husband and is committed to her marriage does not make the demands she is making. She doesn't test the "fence" for weakness at every turn. This woman wants OUT. She's now had another man (my opinion), and wants more of that. Right now he's trying very hard to hold a woman in place who wants very much to leave.


----------



## InlandTXMM

I really wish this guy could see that he will have more value to his wife by shoving her crap out the door than by trying to control her behavior. We have been telling him for a long time now and it's never gotten through:

You must be willing to give the marriage up to have any chance to fix it.

Finally saying he's through - for her to get her own phone and her own apartment and get the hell out - will actually do more to redeem himself to her than all this finger-wagging passive-aggressive game playing.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

thummper said:


> I guess that's the bad part of me *always* trying to see the good in everyone.


There's a difference between always seeing the good and ignoring the obvious.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

InlandTXMM said:


> I really wish this guy could see that he will have more value to his wife by shoving her crap out the door than by trying to control her behavior. We have been telling him for a long time now and it's never gotten through:
> 
> You must be willing to give the marriage up to have any chance to fix it.
> 
> Finally saying he's through - *for her to get her own phone and her own apartment and get the hell out* - will actually do more to redeem himself to her than all this finger-wagging passive-aggressive game playing.


I believe that this is what he's afraid of. That once she is out, she won't want to come back. That she'll start meeting up with the OM, again. That they will become physical, again.

The way I see it, she already has one foot out the door now and has for some time. He's just prolonging the inevitable. If it's not with this OM it will be another.

Hell of a way to live your life OP. You're the warden and she's grating a tin coffee cup back and forth across the bars.


----------



## Lilly_daddy

Hi All. Well the suggestions of "rug-sweeping" and being weak and being a man that MW happens to know better than I do have been something I would have expected since everyone here is such an expert at living my life better than their own. At this point MW has been attempting to find ****** in the armour, she's been attempting to employ trojan horse suggestions such as telling me "well what if I just ban the numbers you ask me to from my phone" and my favourite.."My Mother doesn't want you seeing what she texts me". I find the last statement to be the most amusing because MW still doesn't get the fact that she has to open up and she has to be transparent with me or else nothing get's done. 

I have been expecting members here to assume I am less than capable of handling things up to this point. What has actually happened is that I have actually become more capable. The first time MW tried to propose any kind of challenge I told her she knew where the door was. I told her that not having a cell phone on her made me trust her even less because there was no way for her to tell me where she was and in case of emergencies there would be no way of communication. She has been thwarted at every attempt to either re-acquire her own cell phone and I have actually threatened to not pay for it so she has been forced to go under our shared plan again. She told me she is afraid I'm going to cut her off.

Now, as for the OM and her outings. It would not have mattered one bit if she was engaged in no EA with the OM. The simple fact that he was becoming someone in her life who she was using as a replacement for someone whom she should want to do the things she loves besides her Husband was enough. I am not going to allow a married man, someone I would never have any interest in being friends with hone in on the things MW loves to do and basically take over. I happen to think MW was intentionally doing this and no matter what she attempted to tell me to cover it up was working. When MW first told me (not asked) that she was going to do the kind of dancing with her partner that she wanted to do well that was the first time I knew something was not right with anything. I was being "told" and not asked and that was when I had decided that I was going to put a stop to it which I did. The dancing was cancelled. The OMW was actually the one that put an end to it because she told me that if she had any interest in dancing with her husband there would be no way anyone else would be doing it.

Now as for the pics, well that was also something I should have never allowed for the simple fact that MW used to let the house go to s**t and then plan an outing for picture taking which in my mind was just irresponsible and being a poor parent. When the first outing at night was done I told her there was to be no more because I felt extremely uncomfortable with it all and that was that. So that was over. Two things that were stopped when I felt they were crossing boundaries that I actually should have set a long time ago. Then I put an end to the texting and now she's getting her phone hooked up to be monitored under out shared account and I have VAR'ed the car and bedroom. She's been clean in that regard which is encouraging. 

Fast Forward to this week and MW has given up testing the waters for what she wanted before. The Dancing has not been brought up...The photos have not been brought up. She has not been texting the OM anymore and the ex'bf is blocked from phone calls, both in and outgoing as well as texts and MW has offered to go the "Poly Route" which has been reassuring to a point. This week she mentions wanting to only spend time with me and she has tested the fence with the cell phone boundaries but I have been trying to be strong, not get emotional about it and keeping my composure. She gets told on a regular basis that she had an EA whether she thinks she did or not. She has been told that I will begin to trust as soon as she realizes that this is not a temporary thing that ends when SHE thinks it does but when I begin to feel as though we have any sort of future together. 


As far as being afraid if she leaves, wants to leave or engages in any activity when she does leave. Well that scares the crap out of me. If I didn't love her it would be no problem at all but it is a huge problem for me. I have told her that if I decide to serve her then I will be remaining in the house for the year and whatever happens during that time will determine how easy of a "break" I can make. I would only be remaining of course for my kids. I will begin to form a new life for myself if it ever comes to that point. I am stronger than MW when it comes to that. I can sever the emotions if I need to even though it'll be the hardest thing I ever do for myself.


----------



## ThePheonix

Lilly_daddy said:


> As far as being afraid if she leaves, wants to leave or engages in any activity when she does leave. Well that scares the crap out of me. If I didn't love her it would be no problem at all but it is a huge problem for me.


Its like a lot of other things Lilly my man, once you're faced with the actual situation, its not nearly a scary as you envision. On the plus side, she'll be out of your hair and you can get it out of your system. When she actually leaves, you'll realize you had nothing in the first place.


----------



## Decorum

I have posted and immediately deleted more posts on this thread than any other since I started on TAM, any guesses why?

LD I cant see through the veil to know what it would be like for a wife to live with you, outbursts, passive/agressive, sympathetic, ultimate Alpha male, Romantic, etc. Not saying these are you just that I cant get a mental picture of you.

For some reason you are an enigma to me. I really wounder what life with Lilly_daddy is like. I know you often seem very defensive even hostile to anonymous posters on the Internet and I wonder why it matters so much to you what others think.

I may be wrong but it seems like you do not self-reveal very much.
This is a little like Horizons thread (btw he is much stronger and making good choices now).

Is there any kind of abuse (against you) in your past?

Are you a very analytical person in general?
Does anyone else see what I am saying?

Its important because at some point you will have to make some changes for a healthy relationship.

Do you feel like you have already? 

Its not too early to start.

Think about it.

Take care!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

> Well the suggestions of "rug-sweeping" and being weak and being a man that MW happens to know better than I do have been something I would have expected since everyone here is such an expert at living my life better than their own.


They are observations and opinions not suggestions. I agree this thread is similar to Horizon's because he became angry at posters that didn't see things his way.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

ThePheonix said:


> Its like a lot of other things Lilly my man, once you're faced with the actual situation, its not nearly a scary as you envision. *On the plus side, she'll be out of your hair and you can get it out of your system. When she actually leaves, you'll realize you had nothing in the first place.*


Bingo! He keeps building a better cage, with the same result. A lioness that spends most of her time looking through the bars. Just waiting for that cage door to be left ajar long enough.

She's already had a taste of being on the Savanna and won't stop until she get's more.

Mean while, our friend just goes on his merry way, singing hakuna matata...


----------



## Stronger-now

Lilly_daddy said:


> I find the last statement to be the most amusing because *MW still doesn't get the fact that she has to open up and she has to be transparent with me or else nothing get's done.*


You think she doesn't get it, I think she gets it but she doesn't care. She will keep trying to push the boundaries (meaning: she still has not learnt a thing, has not changed).


----------



## InlandTXMM

OP, you just do not get it. You are not in reconciliation.

You are holding her hostage. 

A weak man won't dare let go of her. A strong one will, because he's confident that she'll stay.


----------



## Decorum

In general women need a safe place to be themselves.

If there is any aggressiveness say in eyes or voice they will retreat, even start building little walls (that become big walls).

She also needs a strong man who can pass her $hit tests so she will feel happy and secure. (She may not even realize this)


Again if they have to walk on eggs shells because you are mean/insecure/ridiculing they will close off.

All the calls to man up, kick her to the curb, etc that you are reacting to, while trying to demonstrate what a good warden you are may be besides the point, what are you doing to work on yourself to be the man she needs you to be?

How are you fixing you so that you are a keeper?

Keep in mind that she may agree with you because she is afraid or its just not worth it to disagree for all the unresolved conflict or trouble it causes

Each partner should feel comfortable to disagree or the relation is dysfunctional. 

Im probably way off here like I said It tough to post from a distance.

As I said this is a guess but LD I think to save this marriage you have to become a better man.

I wish you well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

Merry Christmas LD. Hoping 2014 brings you less drama.


----------



## just got it 55

LD This was writen for you



"Every Breath You Take"


Every breath you take
Every move you make
Every bond you break
Every step you take
I'll be watching you

Every single day
Every word you say
Every game you play
Every night you stay
I'll be watching you

O can't you see
You belong to me
How my poor heart aches with every step you take

Every move you make
Every vow you break
Every smile you fake
Every claim you stake
I'll be watching you

Since you've gone I been lost without a trace
I dream at night I can only see your face
I look around but it's you I can't replace
I feel so cold and I long for your embrace
I keep crying baby, baby please

Every move you make
Every vow you break
Every smile you fake
Every claim you stake
I'll be watching you 

Words to live by

55


----------



## tdwal

Any progress Lilly_Daddy?


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

tdwal said:


> Any progress Lilly_Daddy?


I doubt it. If things had turned around I imagine that he would of told us that we were all wrong about his WS.

He's probably still fighting to get here passwords, to stop deleting texts and emails and so on.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if she had a burner phone by now and is planning her next escape.

Ah, the life of a warden.


----------



## warlock07

Was his wife actually cheating? Don't remember the thread


----------

