# need sound advice



## Claire (May 1, 2009)

I just had my 16th anniversary... dated four years.. so on 20 years now. We have three children ages 10, 9 and 6.

I am flat out, no longer, 100 percent not attracted to my husband anymore. To be honest, I never really was. When I search the internet on this topic, it gives you the advice... "try to remember why you married him to begin with, recapture what you once had"

Well, when I do this... and really think about it, I realize it was never about being madly in love with him, or crazy over him. it was a case of.. desparately WANTING to be in love with someone. wanting the comfort and safety of someone. My father was abusive to my mother.. I knew he would not be. I wanted a children, he seemed to fit the picture perfect mold I had formed in my mind. .. and he is an excellent father, I will give him that. 

He is mr. nice guy. But we really have little in common. Over the years, we have aknowledged that we need to do more together.. we try for a few weeks then slip back into that routine of just roomates. We don't sleep in the same bed.... haven't for years.. His snoring is obnoxious and I can't stand the constant sleep interruptions from it. I tell him this.. he says, ok, i just need to lose weight...but never once has he bothered to ask me to come back to sleeping in that bed, so seems to me in all those years if it bothered him he'd ask.

He seems entitled to sex, it is very unfulfilling to me, he knows it, he knows I don't care to have it, yet still has no problem taking his wham bam thank you mams. I went through a phase about a year ago where I decided I would enjoy sex and start initiating it.. lasted a couple of months.. but honestly didn't do a thing for me... 

While he is an excellent father, and generally nice person, with big goals for the future.. he doesn't do much to get ahead in his job and therefore for the last 8 years, I feel we have done nothing but tread water... I finally got so ugly about it at the beginning of the year, that in the last few weeks he actually seems to be making an effort work wise. .... Over the years, at least once a year, we'd have a heart to heart if you want to call it that, identifying what we wanted out of life for our family, and telling each other we would both improve on our downfalls... it is very shortlived,.. I think I have finally come to a point of no return. Rather than wanting it to work, I have nothing but a feeling of indifference... he has noticed this I feel and is telling me more how much he loves me... instead of this making me happy, it makes me recoil.. I dont' want to hear it anymore. I don't think I want to be married to him anymore, I don't want to have sex with him anymore. everything he does now bugs me, from the way he chews his food to the way he disciplines our kids. I hate that I feel this way... but rekindle something we once had?... when I reach back, I don't really see anything I want to rekindle.. All I see was a young girl that thought she knew what she wanted and really wanted all the wrong things.

I don't want to be a divorced woman... I don't want to hurt my kids. It would be financially very hard as well. But I feel blank. 

My own personal business is starting to pick up, and I am starting to see the forest through the trees where my work is concerned. I have gone in the last few months of feeling like I could NEVER leave him simply b/c of finances, to beginning to believe that I actually could support myself if pushed to do so...so I am throwing myself into my business, to A) give me a sense of self... and B) give myself the confidence to be able to go if I choose to rather than feeling the only reason I am staying is b/c I can't afford it.

This is not a case of me thinking the grass is greener on the other side. I live in a small town, the thought of dating again is somewhat bleak option in this town, and i would feel the need to stay here for my kids.. so no, I am not considering leaving b/c I think I will find the man of my dreams.. I am considering leaving, b/c I feel blank... and that I really am to the point I wonder if I would feel better free and with at least options...whethere they came my way or not, than to stay married in a situation where I just feel empty.

It would DEVASTATE him,.... I THINK... if he knew I was even considering divorce. He knows I am struggling a bit with our relationship even though we really haven't discussed it.. I can tell from his reaching out to say he loves me more often... just this morning we got in a brief discussion about something he had promised to do and yet again had failed to do it .. and I said.. this sort of thing makes me resent you...his response was "I know you resent me...it is quite clear"

I really don't know what to do... do I tell him I am no longer attracted to him?.. I think I could actually be fine if we would just agree to be friends and co parent, it is the obligation of the romantic aspects of it that have me cringing now..... in the past it was just something I did b/c I was supposed to, but now I cringe and dread... it is really eating me up....but seems to me to tell him I am not attracted to him, would be so cruel! I dont' know what to do!


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## JDPreacher (Feb 27, 2009)

Make an exit plan and go...there is no sense in living life unhappy for the sake of this or the sake of that...your sanity and the sanity of your children are most imporant...

I'm not a big advocate of staying for the kids...you're teaching the children to sacrafice their own happiness for the needs of someone who is selfish in a relationship instead of being an equal partner in one and they will have the same sort of issues in their own relationship.

It's not your husbands role to make you happy, only you can do that, he should support you in pursuit of your happiness while you do the same for him but if at this point that's a lost cause, then cut your losses...

Kids learn by example...set one.

Blessed Be,
Preacher


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## Claire (May 1, 2009)

M22

am I absolutely sure it isn't from any outside attention?... I don't really know how to answer it... no, there isn't another man waiting in the lurches for me... yes, I am an attractive person and men make it known to me... in front of him and he encourages it. 

So, I think there is a part of me, that thinks somewhere that I am wasting away in an attractionless marriage and totally unfullfilling sex life when there is the possibility that I could still enjoy at least that aspect for a little longer.. beauty fades. 

But the thing is, I was never really attracted to him.. I can distinctly remember the very first date we ever went on... sitting in the car and watching him walk into a convenient store and thinking...mmmm, nnnaaah, hhhmm, but thinking.. but .. he is from a good family and good husband material, I should give him a chance...I did, we got along well, and dated for four years..not ever because of some animal magnetism, and we never parted ways either b/c there was never any reason to.. then our late 20's rolled around.. been dating long enough.. marriage seemed the logical step. .. about 4 years into it he had an affair with my best friend... I asked him at that point, do you love her? he said he didn't know.. I said..do you love me? he said... I don't know if I ever have.... I never said much about that, b/c I KNEW what he was saying. I have no doubt he has love and appreciation for me..but what he was actually saying, was he had never been IN love with me...and I knew exactly what he meant.... we went to marriage counseling after that and obviously stayed together..we had been going through years of infertility issues, which is another drain on a sex life. So you take one that wasn't great to begin with, throw that in...and..well.. in retrospect, I think that I stayed with him out of fear of my biological timeclock.... I wanted children so desparately...and at that stage WAS depressed, and worried if I left him and didn' twork it out, I wouldn't find another mate and would end up childless. A year later we adopted a child and gave birth to a child within three months... 3yrs later had a daughter. ..those first few years, we blamed the "roommate" syndrome on the stresses of young children. now I am out of that baby phase, have lost all the xtra pounds again... he is treating me like an object for his desire, despite my blantant verbal comments that I hate that... it is annoying as hell. ...then he turns around and tells me how much he loves me and is so happy he has me.... I just don't know, if I can return this feeling to him anymore. But I also care enough about him as a person that I don't want to destroy a "comfortable" family either.... went along with this for years, telling myself it was normal to feel no spark for your spouse... I don't like confrontation, neither does he... but now it is harder for me to hide my feelings and go through the motions, I am beginning to cringe at the notion of him touching me..used to just deal with it and had no reaction.

jd preacher... I am throwing myself into my business and determined to make a success of it to give myself an exit if I need it. 

I'm just not clear on if I need it, or if I will be trading in one less than fullfilling life for another. I don't have on rose colored glasses that life will be easy as a single parent working to support myself... and I certainly know that the dating scene would be virtually non existent in this little town...


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## JDPreacher (Feb 27, 2009)

If you aren't attracted to your husband and the reasons you are staying are shallow and superficial...then don't stay for everyone's sake.

Scared and afraid of "what's out there" is a poor excuse to stay in an unfulfilling marriage. Make an exit plan on what you need to do to go...it's not easy to face the prospect of a future...it's just easier to make excuses...

Dating can wait...

Blessed Be,
Preacher


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## Claire (May 1, 2009)

m22 i take no offense to it. ... it is a logical question.

Part of my problem... is what Preacher said.. it is easier to stay and make excuses than to embark on the unknown possible worse scenario.

Part of my problem is... that my parents had an extremely abusive and volitile marriage..they divorced at MY urging when I left for college. and when I look at how calm and non volitile my life is, I don't see a valid reason for leaving a marriage that I made a commitment to if that makes sense.

Part 3 is..I do care for him and my kids and don't want to destroy them..though I do also understand the flip side that my children shouldn't see me settle..is doing them no favors..but there is a part of me that says I can hide that from them. I am a giving person by nature and tend to take the path of least resistence to keep everyone else happy. I realize this is a flaw.

I don't like the idea of being selfish and upsetting the apple cart. But I also don't like the idea of not being free to persue a happier life.

Sometimes I think the pressures put on people about marriage are really ridiculous when you think about it... yes, I made a lifelong commtiment that I take seriously...but I was young and so stupid...I had NO IDEA what I wanted out of life REALLY back then..just an idea of what I didn't want (ala, my parents)

I have forgiven him for that affair, b/c I understand the circumstances..I was probably a nightmare to be around, crying and depressed over the fertility problems all the time and she became the perfect woman...she seduced and he fell... wrong of course, but I understood how it happened. but have never forgotten the "i dont' know if I've ever loved you" comment


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## Claire (May 1, 2009)

i really wish I could figure out how to go see a counselor before i talk to him. I don't want to say something that is permanently damaging without thinking it all through...but for him to know I want a counselor, is opening a can of worms... a can I know has to be addressed...but want counsel first. Is why I came in search of this place.

He would know the minute the insurance was filed.


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## Claire (May 1, 2009)

Where do I see myself.. have no clear idea of that.. I see myself forced to stay in this town.. which is HIS hometown.. simply b/c it is where my kids are and he would not be able to move b/c of his job nor willing to move..... I am an artist, I can work anywhere, however, I am about to go into business with an interior designer to boost this, and she is here as well... though I will eventually leave this town, have never felt at home here, and have lived here longer than anywhere else.

and yes.. I think I have mainly not brought up my feelings with him because I am afraid of the can of worms it could open up and decisions it could force me to make before I have really thought them through.


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## Claire (May 1, 2009)

My how things change in such a short time.

to my suprise.. HE brought up the fact that he knew I didn't love him anymore. HE was calm and rational. He admitted that he knew that I had been more than vocal over the years about what I needed, wanted, didn't like etc. about our relationship and that he knows he let me down and never addressed it. He says he wants us to work and become best friends again and grow old together, but he also says not if i do not want it. .... The old me would have freaked out at this suprise conversation and quickly said oh no, things are ok, until I had time to think about it.. but I stopped myself and spoke openly, saying that..he was right, I felt disconnected...that I was tired of asking for things to change and had decided I would not ask again and that while I appreciated what he was saying and was willing to work on it... I could promise nothing...that my emotions had been turned off on the topic and I felt nothing but indifference.... So I was proud of myself for not whimping out and stating that. 

He was not suprised, said he was leaving for the night today to go see his sister and wanted me to really think about it and feel what it is like for him to be gone and if I wanted him to stay gone when he got back he would do it.... I think that may be a bit premature. But at least it is on the table now and I don't have to walk around here trying to pretend something I don't feel. I told him all I could hope for at the moment is that we be friends and get along as coparents and roomates at the moment... and he said that was fine for now but that wouldn't last. .. Im a bit in shock really that he was the one to address this, and so level headedly and friendly manner. But feel an amazing sense of calm relief.

on a sidenote..he said "we don't need marriage counseling" at my suggestion to it. PFFFT.... but at least now, I can say I need it without him wondering what it is I'm sorting out.


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## Sensitive (Mar 29, 2009)

There was a period in my marriage, shortly after the birth of our second child, where I was so disgusted with hubby. The sight of him makes me angry. He was so unhelpful with the kids and never helped around the house. Naturally, I didn't want to have sex with someone I despised. Slowly, as the kids grew older, and I grew more accepting of his behaviors, I grew more attacted to him. What I am saying, the attraction does fluctuate in marriage. I am recovering from depression and an affair or two, and it is possible for a marriage to survive. In my case, I feel I am sacrificing for the kids. I can't see a happy life with my husband, but it seems worse without him, so instead of planning an exit route, I am planning a healing route. I just started counseling and trying to make things work again. Hope my story helps some.


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## Claire (May 1, 2009)

his reason for no marriage counseling was that he didn't need it, he knew what was wrong, how it went wrong and what he wanted.

But...mmmm.

Of course nothing but this has gone through my mind today. For MONTHS I have been wishing to be free of this, convinced I'd be happier alone... the truth of the matter is, I am happier not feeling obligated to have a romantic relationship with him.. but the prospect of being alone scares the crap out of me. I like the concept of marriage, and I like knowing there is another person on the other side of the house doing whatever he is doing.... But can I bring a loving feeling toward HIM back to keep that safe feeling? I don't know....and my gut says doubtful.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Claire, so much of what you've written, I could have written. I was never as attracted to my husband as I probably should have been, but I too so wanted it to work. He contributed to making things worse by refusing to listen to me when I expressed my needs. I got to the point a couple of years ago where I simply could not stand his touch anymore, so i quit letting him touch me, and actual kissing disappeared even before that. I think there may be a difference between being able and willing to rekindle something, if the "something" truly was madly passionate at one point, and simply was not. I hate to admit it to myself, but I "settled," and I am the only one responsible for that choice. I knew it at the time, but i promised myself I would always be a good wife and I would never hurt him. I didn't count on him making things worse. He's entitled to mistakes, but sometimes the consequences of our actions are, sadly, irreversible. I made a promise without even knowing what the reality would be like, and he ignored me and took me for granted. He's also very dependent on me, making it worse--I really resent that now. 

I also think marriage will change as more and more women become financially independent. It may take a long time, but I already see a lot of women refusing to put up with less than satisfactory marriages, and let's face it, men already made the break a long time ago (not a criticism). I'll be the 3rd woman in my family to leave a 20+ year marriage. Not a trend in the past.

I'll be thinking of you.


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## Claire (May 1, 2009)

Is EEEEERILY quiet here tonight. There was a time when he traveled during the week and I was accustomed to him being gone.. there have only been a handful of times in the last DECADE that I have had to spend the night in this house without him... of course, I've spent just about every night in a bed with out him.. but the absence of another adult milling around the house seems strange.. which is making me try to visualize what it would be like to separate. I suppose, I would get used to it.. but is making me say to myself..OH, what am I doing maybe I should give him another chance.. and for my childrens sake.. I WILL, I still stand beside my original comment that I could easily...at least for the forseeable few years, live here as his roommate giving my children the appearance of a stable family...if he would just take the "romance" if you want to call it that off the table..that is when the undercurrents and my resentments rear their heads.. I don't want him to touch me.


It is also curious to me... that.. well, like many women, I let myself gain alot of weight after I had children, I wasn't obese, but I went from being considered a catch.. to quite average. a little over a year and a half I had a mini midlife crisis and had a tummy tuck and breast reduction and lost 35lbs and now men are taking notice again..he is constantly getting comments from his friends about how "lucky" he is.... and suddenly he realizes how much he loves me?? where was this when I had nursed his kids forever and carried a few extra lbs around?... and KISSING?? we don't do that..have really never done that... we just aren't compatible kissers... there is just SOO much missing on all that. I realize sexual chemistry is not a necessity to a good marriage.. but when you've never had it, AND now you really don't want him to touch you...is a hard thing to come out of and see the rest..............but then, I walk around this house with him gone tonight, my kids leaving him messages on his cell phone about how much they miss him and don't like him spending the night away and I start trying to convince myself it is selfish of me to go spoil the apple cart.


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## overitnolove (Dec 5, 2008)

I have been separated from my H and reunited because of fear and the grief of th end of the dream.

I am in a similar marriage to you, but I am 31.

I have been open with him and he says similar things to my that your H says to you.

He is also very rational and calm and logical about it all as well which is VERY CONFUSING so I know how that feels.

But, we have no children, and we are both 31.

I was never realy IN LOVE with him in the begining and I really identified with you when you said that 'looking back, rekindle what?"

I am petrified about being alone as well, but looking at your story and the fact that you feel the same way after all of those years is a reality call for me.

He tells me how much he loves me and I love all the usual warm and fuzzy comfort that comes from a marriage but I am miserable and as a consequence so is he but I don't think he will ever admit to what your H admitted to like that..so you're lucky there.

I am sitting here deciding whether or not to tell him blankly that its over.

We have similar stories. Thanks for sharing yours and giving me some perspective.

I fell nothing like you, but feel obligated.

In my view it is the obligation, the breaking of the vows that hurts. The idea of being divorced that is frightening.

But, like preacher says, these are no reason to stay. We must love, respect and honour ourselves more I think.

I'm as lost as you but I think I'm, going to take the plunge and just deal with being divorced.

(Shaking my head)... there is more to life. It is a tradgety but it is what it is. I was talking to my H last night about it all, crying, upset with him for all of crap he put me through...

I said that the soul is perfect and the mind and body cause us greif... and then I thought about the idea that if the soul is 'perfect' , then we should listen to it because it knows the real truth of us as an individual... then I started to weep because I know what my soul is trying to tell me... that there is no love, that my heart is aching because it needs love that isn't there.

Hope it helps,

S


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## lorac8584 (May 8, 2009)

Hello all, I recently found this website and is about my 2nd time visiting. I am absolutley ASTONISHED Claire, to read your posts. It is 90% + identical to my situation. It is comforting yet sad and scary to hear that someone is sharing my life story re marriage, husband, etc. I don't have any suggestions for you as I'm looking for some myself! I know what you mean about staying versus splitting and all the reasons you mention for not splitting. I hope you continue to post here and give your updates. If you ever want to chat with me one-on-one, via email, etc. I'd love to talk . . . I just don't know how I'd give you my email, etc. privately!?! Claire, just know that you are not alone in what you feel and the decisions you've made, i.e. reasons for getting married, getting married w/o a true sense of attraction/love, staying married although you've been very unhappy, etc. etc. Anyway, I will keep you in my thoughts! Take care. Oh, P.S. what part of the country do you live in? For me, I'm in California and is would be extremely difficult for me to split and "make it" financially....


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## confusedandlost (Apr 13, 2009)

Wow, sisters, claire, overit, lorac... You guys all sound so similar to me! It is good to know that I'm not the only one who is feeling this way. My husband and I are young too, like overitnolove - 30 - with no kids. We got together because we had been friends in high school and all the rest of our friends had gone off to their own lives after school was over. We sort of just fell into dating. Love was there but sort of by default. I'm not immensely attracted to him, and I was never madly in love with him, although he is madly in love with me. He pursued me passionately. But my husband has a controlling streak and he wanted all the time I could give to be with him. I lived at home at the time and under my dad's (who's a little overprotective in his own right) rules, curfew was such-and-such a time... Well a lot of struggling and arguing went on over the next several months about time and who "has me" on which days and all that (looking back, I really feel like I was in some kind of a custody battle like a kid!). Eventually I got kicked out and moved in to my future husband's house with his parents. We eventually got an apartment together, lived together for years, bought a home together, then went to the courthouse and made it official almost 10 years later. Now it's been about 12 years since we've been together and I look back on all that time. I've given up a lot to be with him, strained my relationship with my dad (which is now much better thankfully), many social opportunities (he is not a very social creature), continually locked horns with him over time commitments in my career, decided not to continue on in school to advance my career, all to keep us from fighting over how much time we spend together, to keep him happy. I was content to do all this and I thought I might always be that way. I didn't know any better - I was 19 when we got together for heaven's sakes! I thought I really needed a man to be happy in life. Now I don't really believe that anymore, and while there is some fear of the unknown I started to fantasize about a life on my own. My own place, my own stuff, my own time. This has been going on off and on for the past couple of years. Then I found myself open to the possibility that there might be other men out there for me, other relationships, even if just casual flings or a little flirting, nothing serious. I even tried flirting a little - certainly no sex, nothing more than words really, possibly emotional but more about having a little fun. Before I got together with my H the only time I entered a relationship was if I thought it was going to be "serious." Dating was so painful because of that, I never even tried to enjoy the experience of meeting new and different people. I realized that I had settled, settled for a generally good guy who has a domineering personality that kept me in line and out of "trouble" for a long time. I might have needed that when I was younger, and I don't really regret the time we've had together. But I'm older and more self-sufficient now, and don't want to be trapped with a controlling man that I don't love that much - certainly not as much as he loves me. I told him I was unhappy about a month ago, said I wanted to leave. He was blindsided, devastated. He begs me to stay, swears he will change, do anything to keep me there. In the same breath he has no problem turning around and telling me that some of our problems are almost certainly my fault, not his, that I enabled his behavior for too long. This might be true, but I feel like I'm being manipulated. He's actually very good at manipulation and has admitted this. But he's trying so hard to make this "work" and can't understand why I'm not. My heart's not in it. We have a counseling appointment next weekend and I don't know if we'll make that long. I had to leave and stay with a friend for the weekend because for the past three weeks we have done nothing but "talk" (read: talk calmly one minute and argue the next) about problems every waking moment we are together. Literally, EVERY moment. I had to get away because my health was being compromised from all the stress. But I also have to go back at some point... I worry about what I should do. If I stay and work on it I may condemn myself to more months or years of this kind of misery. I don't know if the grass is greener (it likely is not, I'm not that naive) but there may be more for me out there. But I hate to hurt him so much as I already have... 

Wow, super long post, I'm sorry! Kind of therapeutic though. It is nice to know there are others out there who feel the way I do. Thanks for "listening"!


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

claire,
pardon me for butting in...but it sound like you want to eliminate all risk then pull the trigger...i'm wrong, right?


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## overitnolove (Dec 5, 2008)

Dear everyone,

I'm staying with my parents for the week to see what happens... again.

He is really trying but does understand where I'm coming from. He regrets all of the years where he was half hearted at life.

Do you give the H yet another go and believe him? Do you stay on, or give up? We actually had really great sex on the weekend for the first time in , I don'tknow, a year? Odd. Confusing. WIt was, as you were saying Claire, the connection thing that hurt the most, and we actually had it last weekend. But, like my mother said, is it all too little too late? That is how it feels to me and I told H that and he understands but is hoping I give him another shot.

I know I'll be alright in the end and I know that al of you out there who have a 'similar' situaltion to Claire will be too. The question is, do you let go of all of that work and life to start again?

If you can re-create it with someone else, than yes? But, how much do I love H? Enough to give him another shot? 

I realised over the weekend what was so depressing about it all was the repressed resentment built up over years of being 'understanding' when really I wasn't.

I told H this and expressed my repressed anger and again, he was understanding. But, once I got that off my chest, I felt much more free. Maybe express the resentment to your respective Hs.

Another confusing aspect to this is, although for years, and as I have read, for a few of you out there, there has been the want to leave, at the end of it all, love grows with time, despite how screwy the circumstances.

Do you give up that organically grown kinda love? It is deep. It does hurt to theow it away.

But do you resolve that you must respect oyur own life more? Aain it depends on the depth of the love.

My well, as it were, is the deepest, but history is preventing me from running into his arms. It is a wall of 'ENOUGH'. Only time could ever break that one down. But how much time? How much more time do I give him?

That is where I am within this mess. I don't want to give hi any more time and want him to learn that women cannot be treated as mother/lover figures. The are partners. Equals. Lovers, but NEVER mothers!!! That's reserved purely for the offspring.

I know, this whole post is philosophical and open ended.

Claire, confusedandlost, I think at the end it is all dependent on the kind of life WE want to create for ourselves, either way.

Big cyber hugs,

S


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## leluronlilcupid (May 11, 2009)

i think its natural to be doubtful on wether or not you can rekindle a feeling towards him when youre experiencing being in a position where there is not that feeling. you dont know weather or not you can feel something that you dont feel now, and that is natural like i said. i think you sould go to that marriage councillor by yourself and sometimes things take time. you should definitely not jump te gun on this. its important and really matters. another thing i wanted to bring up is the fact that your husband kind of eggs on when people notice youre attractive. did it ever occur to you that maybe he just got with you based on your looks? the reason i say that is that it is a possibility. but there's also the possibility that this doesn't rekindle. theres a possiblility it just wont work out, so i think you should have a minimum amount of time for yourself. meaning you should choose and amount of time and let that amount of time be the least amount of time that you have given yourself to prepare to come to a decision. have you tried having a temporarily open relationship...a relationship where you stay roomates for a while, but are allowed the option to date other people? hope this helps. -n. leluron


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## Claire (May 1, 2009)

voivod said:


> claire,
> pardon me for butting in...but it sound like you want to eliminate all risk then pull the trigger...i'm wrong, right?



Sorry everyone, I didn't mean to not come back to this thread, . it has been a very long and uncomfortable week around here and when I have the time to type out all that has been going on without little people all around me I am definately going to need some input on what I am doing/dealing with...... but that question quote above? I do not understand what you are saying/asking?.... what do you mean "eliminate all risk and then Pull the trigger?"


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