# How does a couple resume a "normal" life after infidelity?



## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

After one spouse has an affair, and both are working toward having a better marriage, how do we get back towards living a "normal" life. It's been 9 months now, and I feel that while working on our marriage we have focused all our energy on the devestation it has cause our marriage. I read so many posts that say that couples are still having family life, dinners together, all while not bringing up the issues (or something to that effect). It's like this is always over our heads, set backs or not.

Yes, we spend as much family time as we can, but the dark cloud never seems to leave our lives.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

working_together said:


> After one spouse has an affair, and both are working toward having a better marriage, how do we get back towards living a "normal" life. It's been 9 months now, and I feel that while working on our marriage we have focused all our energy on the devestation it has cause our marriage. I read so many posts that say that couples are still having family life, dinners together, all while not bringing up the issues (or something to that effect). It's like this is always over our heads, set backs or not.
> 
> Yes, we spend as much family time as we can, but the dark cloud never seems to leave our lives.


Time...and more time. Assuming that you are both 100% committed, transparent and the cheater owns the affair 100%.

It took my wife and I at least 2 years to being "normal" again....


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> Time...and more time. Assuming that you are both 100% committed, transparent and the cheater owns the affair 100%.
> 
> It took my wife and I at least 2 years to being "normal" again....


:iagree::iagree:

Although the new normal isn't anywhere near the old normal IMO.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> Time...and more time. Assuming that you are both 100% committed, transparent and the cheater owns the affair 100%.
> 
> It took my wife and I at least 2 years to being "normal" again....


:iagree::iagree::iagree: We aren't 2 years out yet though. It's almost 2 years since Dday#1 but only just over a year since #2


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## calif_hope (Feb 25, 2011)

You have to come to terms with a new normal.....the marriage, the normal you had before the affair(s) is gone - it's dead and you cannot resurrect it. You and your spouse need to grieve and morn the old and build a new one but you have to accept that is will not be as innocent, pure, trusting, and clean as before. 

You take your scar tissue with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Yep, it's all about time. We're almost a year and a half out from D-Day #1, but didn't start TRULY recovering and reconciling til she acknowledged and owned everything she did, most of which she'd refused to see as harmful to us (for instance, refused to see her long-standing EA *as* an EA), ultimately resulting in a D-Day #2 and her having to very closely examine a lifetime of behaviors. That was just April of this year. We've made a lot of progress, but there's still a lot of work to do, and the old "normal" will never exist again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Working, if by "normal", you mean back to the way it was , pre-affair, that is never going to happen. You will have to create a new "normal". The infidelity is now a part of your life, and your husband's. He will ALWAYS remember that you cheated and when given the choice, chose another man, and you will ALWAYS remember that YOU were the one who did this terrible thing. Everything you and he thought was "normal" is now a bitter memory. So what do you do about it? You re-commit to each other, you prove your worth to him, and you make new and better memories to replace the old ones. An analogy. Take a picture frame, and YOU put a sign in it saying, " I am a cheating, evil wh*re", and hang it on the wall of your bedroom. Everytime you prove something good to your husband, you get to erase a letter. Every time he thinks that you are showing love, loyalty, and honesty. HE gets to erase a letter. But, he also gets to add a letter back, if you backslide. At first you will look at it every time you go into the room, after a while it will become like any other piece of your furnishings, and by then, it will be an empty frame, with no letters at all, and you can throw it away. And, I truly hope that you can put a new picture in it's place. One of a loving, loyal , deeply happy, couple.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Remember, HOPE is your new NORMAL.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

I would think that one of the toughest htings to get over, in cases where the cheater is busted, at least, is the absolute knowledge that you are second choice, that if not for the consequences, your spouse would have jettisoned you,pronto.
It must just seem so weird knowing that it is only the loss and the consequences(or guilt) that motivated your spouse to stay, vs actually liking you.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

I don't believe any one of you, who say you have normal----The betrayed is always facing the elephant in the room, when sex occurs, is always looking over their shoulder, and becomes very alert---if anything out of the ordinary occurs

Please do not any of you betrayed's say otherwise, cuz you are LYING if you do.

Nothing, will ever be the same----it just becomes, what the betrayed is willing to tolerate.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

This is a new marriage with no more "blind trust". You must accept this and stop comparing this to the old one you had. That marriage is gone, you destroyed it. 

And, no matter what, do not blame your H for not treating you the same way. You changed him and his perspective for good. Just try making the most out of what you still have.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

BTW, you cheating doesn't allow him to continually verbally abuse 24/7 though, or physically abuse you. There has to come a time where you have to draw the line on how much you can take.

It's a fine line, but one that you have to establish on your own, everyone has their own tolerance levels.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

It's always going to be a work in progress. I'm about a year and a half out and there are stretches of up to 4 days or so that what happened doesn't cross my mind. You reach a point where you decide to move past what happened or not.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

If you strongly feel that your H is crossing the boundary to anything abusive, you have to ask him to stop, despite what you have done. Get assistance from MC to address such issue would be wise.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

sadcalifornian said:


> If you strongly feel that your H is crossing the boundary to anything abusive, you have to ask him to stop, despite what you have done. Get assistance from MC to address such issue would be wise.


SAdcalifornian, you are projecting . Working has never said in any of her posts or threads, that her husband was being abusive, if she did, show it to me. Where did you get this? Did you just make it up?


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Badblood said:


> SAdcalifornian, you are projecting . Working has never said in any of her posts or threads, that her husband was being abusive, if she did, show it to me. Where did you get this? Did you just make it up?


I think I got confused with another thread. But, my advice is still valid regardless if such happens to be the case.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

cheatinghubby said:


> :iagree::iagree:
> 
> Although the new normal isn't anywhere near the old normal IMO.


In my case the new "normal" is so much better than the old...better then I could have possibly imagined.

Takes work.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> In my case the new "normal" is so much better than the old...better then I could have possibly imagined.
> 
> Takes work.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

jnj express said:


> I don't believe any one of you, who say you have normal----The betrayed is always facing the elephant in the room, when sex occurs, is always looking over their shoulder, and becomes very alert---if anything out of the ordinary occurs
> 
> Please do not any of you betrayed's say otherwise, cuz you are LYING if you do.
> 
> Nothing, will ever be the same----it just becomes, what the betrayed is willing to tolerate.




Oh..I would have to disagree. Things really could not be any better between my wife and I.

No elephant...shoulder looking or anything like that...


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

jnj express said:


> I don't believe any one of you, who say you have normal----The betrayed is always facing the elephant in the room, when sex occurs, is always looking over their shoulder, and becomes very alert---if anything out of the ordinary occurs
> 
> Please do not any of you betrayed's say otherwise, cuz you are LYING if you do.
> 
> Nothing, will ever be the same----it just becomes, what the betrayed is willing to tolerate.


Maybe it's like that for a while. I choose to deal with the elephant if he makes an appearance. I would honestly say though that my marriage now is 100 times better than what it was before. I told my wife in counseling and I am not exaggerating, if an affair is what it took for us to have the relationship we have now, I would do it all over 100 times.

My wife and I are a committed unit. We are close. We share everything. We are eachother's best friends.We are both guarding our intimacy like Fort Knox.

Our love now is strong. I know more about my wife then anyone on this planet. I know ALL of her "junk." I can look at her heart, knowing what she chose to do in her darkest hour, and CHOOSE to forgive her and love her. What could come between that now?

Yes I still deal with insecurities or bad thoughts and have bad days (today was one of them). But I have a supportive and loving wife to help me through it. I would not call that "tolerating" my wife, I feel sorry for people that do not have the relationship we have.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

working_together said:


> After one spouse has an affair, and both are working toward having a better marriage, how do we get back towards living a "normal" life. It's been 9 months now, and I feel that while working on our marriage we have focused all our energy on the devestation it has cause our marriage. I read so many posts that say that couples are still having family life, dinners together, all while not bringing up the issues (or something to that effect). It's like this is always over our heads, set backs or not.
> 
> Yes, we spend as much family time as we can, but the dark cloud never seems to leave our lives.


Working,

I have followed your threads with great interest because I see the love and effort you are putting into the relationship after D-Day. One thing you have to remember is that every time something occurs it "freezes" the recovery and building the new marriage stalls for a bit. I believe that you aren't far removed from informing the OMW about the affair. And recently you had contact with the OM even though you had a NC in place. These are setbacks that stall creating the new marriage for a bit. Setbacks like these are unfortunate but not unforeseen. But they are also opportunities for you both to open up your hearts and grow together as a couple.

It has been almost 20 years since my W had an A. There are times when she is late or I can't contact her on her cell and that thought pops in my head "could she be with another man again?" Of course she has done nothing wrong in all those years so I have the ability to clear those thought out and replace them with many years of trust rebuilding acts. But those thought are still there.

I can say that our marriage is not the same. It can't be. I like to use the analogy of a ceramic dish. If you drop it it will shatter. You collect the pieces and super glue them back together. The dish will be stronger as the glue is stronger than the original ceramic but the cracks are always visible.

My marriage is not the innocent childlike relationship it once was. But these years or sharing and caring has built something better. We know so much more about ourselves and each other. I am closer to my wife now than I ever was and we grow closer with each passing day. I cannot say that I am glad the A happened as I would not wish that pain on my worst enemy. What I will say is that something wonderful has grown out of a terrible tragic circumstance and I treasure my marriage more today than I did before the A took place.

Give it time. It gets better.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

COguy said:


> Maybe it's like that for a while. I choose to deal with the elephant if he makes an appearance. I would honestly say though that my marriage now is 100 times better than what it was before. I told my wife in counseling and I am not exaggerating, if an affair is what it took for us to have the relationship we have now, I would do it all over 100 times.
> 
> My wife and I are a committed unit. We are close. We share everything. We are eachother's best friends.We are both guarding our intimacy like Fort Knox.
> 
> ...


Maybe you should have your own affair, then, so things become 10,000 times better.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Maybe you should have your own affair, then, so things become 10,000 times better.


Really? Your bitterness and anger are so glaringly apparent. Why say anything at all if all you can spew is this sort of tripe? Obviously your ban didn't give you time to think before you type.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Maybe you should have your own affair, then, so things become 10,000 times better.


Do I take it that you speak from experience?


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

morituri said:


> Do I take it that you speak from experience?


Just extrapolating.
Pidge, this guy is a hypocrite, IMO. He cheated and was forgiven but would not extend the same forgiveness to his wife, citing his "smaller heart"(how convenient). What tripe, as you would say. 
Fortunately, so long as we are civil, this forum seems to allow for different views.
BTW, you sound a little angry and bitter.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Just extrapolating.
> Pidge, this guy is a hypocrite, IMO. He cheated and was forgiven but would not extend the same forgiveness to his wife, citing his "smaller heart"(how convenient). What tripe, as you would say.
> Fortunately, so long as we are civil, this forum seems to allow for different views.
> BTW, you sound a little angry and bitter.


Actually, my life is quite good. I'm pretty happy. Thanks for your concern though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Just extrapolating.
> Pidge, this guy is a hypocrite, IMO. He cheated and was forgiven but would not extend the same forgiveness to his wife, citing his "smaller heart"(how convenient). What tripe, as you would say.
> Fortunately, so long as we are civil, this forum seems to allow for different views.
> BTW, you sound a little angry and bitter.


Besides, your snide remark was not directed at the OP. You directed it at someone who stated his marriage has gotten better in spite of his wife's A.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

pidge70 said:


> Actually, my life is quite good. I'm pretty happy. Thanks for your concern though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


MIne, too. What makes you think I am concerned?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Just extrapolating.


Extrapolating? Hmmm methinks it sounds more like speculating.



> Pidge, this guy is a hypocrite, IMO. He cheated and was forgiven but would not extend the same forgiveness to his wife, citing his "smaller heart"(how convenient). What tripe, as you would say.


Which guy are you referring to?

But whoever this 'guy' is you call a hypocrite is, until he crosses that bridge, he really doesn't know how he'll react. There are plenty of 'A PA is a deal breaker in my book' yet when they found that their spouse had a PA, then they sang a totally different tune. Maybe he would be that kind of person who forgives his wife, having learned humility.

With all due respect Arnold, as far as contract law is concerned, I think FrankKissel has you beaten. Just 'extrapolating'.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

take a chill pill guys. Don't want you banned!


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

ing said:


> take a chill pill guys. Don't want you banned!


Sorry ing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

We are all being polite, just disagreeing.
As for Frank, I can't be objective. But, I appreciate your assessment and will give it all the weight it deserves(IMHO),Mori.
Lon Fuller, I ain't.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

pidge70 said:


> Besides, your snide remark was not directed at the OP. You directed it at someone who stated his marriage has gotten better in spite of his wife's A.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, some of my snide remarks were directed at him:smthumbup:
And, claiming that you would endure 100 affairs seems a little dismissive re the trauma and pain they cause.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Regardless of the angst being displayed here, this is a very interesting concern that Working has and should be treated a little more seriously than it is now. IMO. "Normalcy", is different things to different people. When I was in combat in Afghanistan, normal was constant fear, dirt , blood and pain, so it shows that a person can get accustomed to anything. In Working's situation, "normal", will have to be a new beginning with Working as the emotional heavy-lifter, and her husband at the top of her agenda, considering how the affair went, she can ask for no more than that, for the foreseeable future


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Regardless of the angst being displayed here, this is a very interesting concern that Working has and should be treated a little more seriously than it is now. IMO. "Normalcy", is different things to different people. When I was in combat in Afghanistan, normal was constant fear, dirt , blood and pain, so it shows that a person can get accustomed to anything. In Working's situation, "normal", will have to be a new beginning with Working as the emotional heavy-lifter, and her husband at the top of her agenda, considering how the affair went, she can ask for no more than that, for the foreseeable future


Even when the BS is at the top of the agenda again, they will never forget that someone else was there when he/she should not have been. The BS can never get back the marriage that he/she had. They will have to try to build a new relationship, but it won't be the same and it won't be easy. If working's H liked what his marriage was pre A , as I did, that will make it harder for him to accept what has changed. She will need to be very patient with her H. Best of luck to them both.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

sadcalifornian said:


> This is a new marriage with no more "blind trust". You must accept this and stop comparing this to the old one you had. That marriage is gone, you destroyed it.
> 
> And, no matter what, do not blame your H for not treating you the same way. You changed him and his perspective for good. Just try making the most out of what you still have.


Making the most of what I have? I have nothing.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

cheatinghubby said:


> BTW, you cheating doesn't allow him to continually verbally abuse 24/7 though, or physically abuse you. There has to come a time where you have to draw the line on how much you can take.
> 
> It's a fine line, but one that you have to establish on your own, everyone has their own tolerance levels.


This is probably what I should have referred to when making my orignal post, I never wanted to say it for fear that I would only be justifying and minimizing my own past selfish behavior. But for the last 9 months he HAS been verbally abusive, and I have taken it all since I knew I deserved it. I didn't know when it was crossing the line, i just know I feel berated and belittled for what I have done, and that's what I mean by regaining a "normal" life. He HATES me through and through. I can't fight back, I feel as though I deserve it all. What hurts is that is has taken his frustrations on our kids, and they are now showing the effects of both my affair, and his reaction to it.

and it is 24/7


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

working_together said:


> Making the most of what I have? I have nothing.


STOP!!!!! Feeling sorry for yourself!! Working , so you have nothing? Have NONE of our posts taught you anything at all? You have the greatest gift that any wayward will ever get, a chance, an opportunity. You CAN rebuild your marriage, you CAN rebuild your integrity, you CAN renew your love for your husband and loyalty to your family, ytou CAN learn to feel empathy and compassion for others. Tell you what, ask around. Ask how many cheaters would KILL for the chance you have. Instead of feeling sorry for yourself, feel your husband's pain, then get to work.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Badblood said:


> SAdcalifornian, you are projecting . Working has never said in any of her posts or threads, that her husband was being abusive, if she did, show it to me. Where did you get this? Did you just make it up?


He has been, I've just never said it for fear that people would tell me I deserved his lashing out. I always told him that I understand his anger, but that I cannot live with the verbal abuse. And yet he does not stop, I thought with the exposure things would settle down, and we could work through this, but he is as angry as ever. It never stops.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

It may be time for the two of you to go back to couples counseling. If he's unwilling and the verbal abuse continues unabated, then you've got some serious thinking to do if living in a toxic environment is good for the two of you. A separation may be required to help the two of you heal.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

working_together said:


> Yes, we spend as much family time as we can, but the dark cloud never seems to leave our lives.


I don't see the dark cloud leaving very quickly. But you two should be working on building the positives more than rehashing the negatives. He needs to process what has happened, and he needs to see proof of your sincerity and trustworthiness. That is part of the process.

To move forward you need some direction. Is he open to relationship books and the corny exercises in them? I really like "5 Love Languages", "Getting the Love you Want" (book and workbook), and "Passionate Marriage". These kinds of books provide a process to rebuild intimacy and trust.

Healing the hurt just gets him back to zero from the very negative place he is now. Work on building the positive side, too.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

I have wasted my time on a troll. I thought that Working... together was a real poster with a real problem. Well, Working, I hope you had some fun. I call bul*sh*t on this last post. You NEVER mentioned ANYTHING about abuse until Cheatinghubby's post. So now you have a new way of spinning your made-up story. I won't post on any of Working...together's threads anymore. I hate trolls!!!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

working_together said:


> He has been, I've just never said it for fear that people would tell me I deserved his lashing out. I always told him that I understand his anger, but that I cannot live with the verbal abuse. And yet he does not stop, I thought with the exposure things would settle down, and we could work through this, but he is as angry as ever. It never stops.


This may be a reasonable deal breaker for you. After some reasonable amount of time he should not be punishing you for what you did. There may still be rebuilding work etc, but the punishment phase should not linger endlessly.

At some point you do have the right to decide you have tried all you can. He may no longer be an acceptable spouse to you. Counseling for both of you sounds like a good suggestion.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

In some cases the BS does become abusive. They are trying to make the WS feel the pain that they feel. Unfortunately the WS already usually feels so bad that instead of resisting the abuse they accept it as "just rewards" for their behavior. But this creates a self perpetuating cycle...abuse by BS...accept the abuse by WS...more abuse by BS and so on. In short this is not healthy for either of you.

I would ask your H to return to MC and go over this issue. If you think he will react badly just tell him you both need a safe place to talk after the stress of the last week or so and then bring it up in counseling.

I truly hope you both can continue to move forward in your R. You seem like a very good person that made a very bad choice and from your description your H sounds like a good man who is caught up in a web of emotion and is having trouble processing everything.

I wish you all the best.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

oaksthorne said:


> Even when the BS is at the top of the agenda again, they will never forget that someone else was there when he/she should not have been. The BS can never get back the marriage that he/she had. They will have to try to build a new relationship, but it won't be the same and it won't be easy. If working's H liked what his marriage was pre A , as I did, that will make it harder for him to accept what has changed. She will need to be very patient with her H. Best of luck to them both.


Neither of us liked out marriage before the affair, we both had resentments towards each other, and had not been intimate for 8 months prior to the affair.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Thor, don't waste your time. At frist she was a independent woman trying to overcome her affair, without much sympathy for her husband, then whencalled on it , she suddenly becomes more empathetic and caring. Whe she describes hte work being done and the telling of the OMW, she gets called for her interference, so then she no longer interferes. When it starts to die down, she brings up an alleged text from the OM just to keep the thread alive, and now she is a poor abused woman. I think she is a troll, bored , sitting in front of her pc and laughing at us. And to top it off, now she tells us that they have had problems before the affair nand haven't been intimate. Geez, fool me once , shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Badblood said:


> STOP!!!!! Feeling sorry for yourself!! Working , so you have nothing? Have NONE of our posts taught you anything at all? You have the greatest gift that any wayward will ever get, a chance, an opportunity. You CAN rebuild your marriage, you CAN rebuild your integrity, you CAN renew your love for your husband and loyalty to your family, ytou CAN learn to feel empathy and compassion for others. Tell you what, ask around. Ask how many cheaters would KILL for the chance you have. Instead of feeling sorry for yourself, feel your husband's pain, then get to work.


Bad, I'm not feeling "sorry" for myself, it's the truth, I can no longer parent my children properly, I can't function properly any longer.

My marriage is over, and I know it.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

BTW, never post on any of my threads, again, or I will ask the mods to delete it.


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## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

> I can no longer parent my children properly, I can't function properly any longer.
> 
> *My marriage is over, and I know it*.


I'm sorry to hear that. Sometimes its just NOT going to work.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Badblood said:


> I have wasted my time on a troll. I thought that Working... together was a real poster with a real problem. Well, Working, I hope you had some fun. I call bul*sh*t on this last post. You NEVER mentioned ANYTHING about abuse until Cheatinghubby's post. So now you have a new way of spinning your made-up story. I won't post on any of Working...together's threads anymore. I hate trolls!!!


I'm not a troll, and you know it, and I never wanted to post that he has been verbally abusive for fear of the lashing I would get here about not saying it earlier, maybe I didn't realize it was abusive at the time, have you thought about that??????

I have always come here with good intentions, how could you say that I am a troll, that really hurts. Saying I hope "I had some fun", are you kidding, whey the hell would I come here for fun? I need help, and I know it.

Would you like to see the holes in my walls?

don't worry I won't post on your threads anymore.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Thor, don't waste your time. At frist she was a independent woman trying to overcome her affair, without much sympathy for her husband, then whencalled on it , she suddenly becomes more empathetic and caring. Whe she describes hte work being done and the telling of the OMW, she gets called for her interference, so then she no longer interferes. When it starts to die down, she brings up an alleged text from the OM just to keep the thread alive, and now she is a poor abused woman. I think she is a troll, bored , sitting in front of her pc and laughing at us. And to top it off, now she tells us that they have had problems before the affair nand haven't been intimate. Geez, fool me once , shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.


Did I say I was a poor abused woman Bad????

I said that through his justified anger he has attacked me verbally, I'm not feeling sorry for myself, just stating that I did not know it was crossing the line, I know I deserved his anger, but when is it too much. I'm beaten down, and I still wanted to work on my marriage as much as I could.


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## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

Badblood, I really think you're taking this rather personally. Marine or not, you need to take a chill pill, dude.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Badblood and working_together, please be mindful that the moderators are monitoring the threads and will not hesitate to ban any member(s) who are not abiding by the terms of service.


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## Jen S (Nov 10, 2011)

Arnold said:


> We are all being polite, just disagreeing.
> As for Frank, I can't be objective. But, I appreciate your assessment and will give it all the weight it deserves(IMHO),Mori.
> Lon Fuller, I ain't.


Arnold banned again? What rules is he violating just out of curiosity? It seems like sniping from all sides sometimes so I wonder what crosses the line on here. I like this site and don't want to get tossed (or to hurt feelings). Sorry if this is off topic.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

morituri said:


> Badblood and working_together, please be mindful that the moderators are monitoring the threads and will not hesitate to ban any member(s) who are not abiding by the terms of service.


I haven't said anything inappropriate, he is attacking me here, I'm only defending myself. I hate being called a "troll"

I will no longer respond to his words.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

JustaJerk said:


> Badblood, I really think you're taking this rather personally. Marine or not, you need to take a chill pill, dude.


:iagree:

Arnold got banned again. This could be a permanent ban. Something for all of us to consider.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Badblood, I do not post very much on this site, but read every day. I have to say sir, it seems you may want to consider some anger management classes. You seem to lash out with extreme hostility at people who are looking for help a lot lately.


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## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

It seems people are projecting.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

I think everyone here has forgotten to post every single detail in regard to their posts. Yes, I forgot to mention a few things. Obviously if I had an affair my marriage was not perfect, who's is? Would it have made any difference if I had said that my husband and I had not been intimate for some time before I had the affair? We have already worked on that aspect. It was in bad shape, I mentioned that prevously, we were swamped with two small children that we had later in life and that really affected our intimacy, and neither of us chose to work on it at the time. I know that it was in trouble back then, we both did. What was the point into going into every single detail, it's 25 years worth of stuff that would take me months to write.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

More the reason for the two of you to go back to MC. The affair is one issue among others that have to be address and hopefully resolved. Unfortunately the 'we don't need no stinkin' mc' approach has not worked, so now a different approach is needed and that is to seek out the services of a proven couples counselor with experience in infidelity.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

Working,

What are you calling verbal abuse?

Is he saying things like "Hello you stupid @#$%....?" As soon as he sees you? 

Or 

Is it more prevalent when you two try to discuss the affair...kinda a spiraling out of control situation?

I'm asking because your husband is having a real hard time moving out of the anger phase...although even if everything went perfect...9 months time is borderline.

Perhaps a separation would be advisable....

I know in my case it was a must...I couldn't even be in the same room with my wife without wanting to lash out..of course this was mostly caused by the trickle truth I was getting...either way it was a good idea for us to separate. She needed time to figure out that trickle truth was killing me and I needed space to clear my head.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

morituri said:


> More the reason for the two of you to go back to MC. The affair is one issue among others that have to be address and hopefully resolved. Unfortunately the 'we don't need no stinkin' mc' approach has not worked, so now a different approach is needed and that is to seek out the services of a proven couples counselor with experience in infidelity.


:iagree:


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

I apologize if it seems that way. Nothing could be further from the truth. I want , more than anything, to help prevent what happened to me, from happening to other people. It is NOT anger, it is a deep desire to help those who really need it. Marriage is , to me, a sacred trust and gift, and when it ends bad, the tragedy can have lasting effects on so many people, that I feel it is necessary for all, BS'S, Om?OW's, and waywards, to have as many of the unvarnished facts as possible, and as much information as is needed to be able to give the poster the help they want and need. Whe I feel that posters aren't being forthcoming, I will call them on it. If you will look at ALL my posts, you will find that I , at first defended Working, after she SEEMED to be trying to get her act together. I will not post here again, because I , no longer , believe her, but I apologize for saying that other posters were wasting their time, it isn't my place to do so. Sorry.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

I'm under a mircroscope at home and justifiably so, but why is everything I say questioned so much? I have answered all questions to my best ability. I thought that my husband's anger towards me was realistic considering what I have done, and I accept that. But somewhere along the line it has become worse, and no, I'm not afraid he will physically harm me, but at the same time by kids are hearing his anger, and at this point he is so angry he doesn't seem to care. I'm worried that's all.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

We had to separate too. I was WAY too angry to be under the same roof as him.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Working,

You SHOULD be under a microscope. Everything you say is questioned because you betrayed your H. These are things you have to live with and if you can't then D is an option you should consider. You made an effort to have an A and now you need to make an effort to R. It's your choice if you are able to do these things.

It was only recently that your H contacted the OMW, correct? And before that you resisted him doing that, correct? Then the OM contacted you and in spite of a NC you spoke to him, correct?

As GM stated above, trickle truth can derail progress. The things above can derail progress just like TT. So it has been 9 mos since D-Day chronologically but realistically it is really much shorter. That is probably why your H is still in the anger phase. He feels that you have resisted R by trying to protect the OM's relationship and then speaking to him on top of that. You both need more time.

If H's verbal abuse is too much then go to MC. Maybe you should consider a separation.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> Working,
> 
> What are you calling verbal abuse?
> 
> ...


He has this need to talk about the affair every day, from the moment he walks in from work, until we go to bed. This has been from the beginning. When he first found out about the affair, and he needed to know everything I Knew we needed to talk about it, I knew he needed to hear all the truth, I was fine with that. 

When I say verbal abuse, I mean when the house isn't cleaned the way it should be, he then says, "yeah, well you never cleaned it before when you were with OM", when the kids make a mess, he lashes out and blames me for allowing them to make the mess "what's wrong with you that you cannot even control the kids?" When I'm too tired to make dinner occasionally, he lashes out that I cannot even do that properly. When there's no gas in the truck...more lashing out. Because I haven't done x-mas shopping yet, he gets angry, and says "what are you waiting for?" It's almost like he thinks by saying these things he'll get me to show him the remorse etc. that I need to.

Maybe it doesn't sound verbally abusive because they seem like common questions, but it's the way he says it, then it triggers him into calling me every name in the book.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Working,
> 
> You SHOULD be under a microscope. Everything you say is questioned because you betrayed your H. These are things you have to live with and if you can't then D is an option you should consider. You made an effort to have an A and now you need to make an effort to R. It's your choice if you are able to do these things.
> 
> ...


I think what you say is very correct. He doesn't think we were in R at all because he always felt I was protecting OM when not exposing the affair. But I guess I thought things would get better after that, and I wanted him to regain his manhood, and get closure from this. I always knew it was going to be a hard road ahead.


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## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

I don't know, but this doesn't sound like verbal abuse to me. I might be wrong, but it doesn't. It sounds like a frustrated BH, who's trying to deal with the hand he's been dealt. Sorry.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

We will be going back to MC, I know we have to. Last time we went right after he found out it was not effective since I was still in the fog. I'm long out of it now. He was even more angry at the time, and basically didn't hold back how he felt about me during our sessions. At one point he couldn't even tell the therapist one thing about me that he loved.

and when he left the room in a rage, the therapist asked me "why do you stay"?

Anyway, it doesn't matter anymore, obviously i've lost all credibility here, so whatever I say now will not be taken seriously.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

working_together said:


> I think what you say is very correct. He doesn't think we were in R at all because he always felt I was protecting OM when not exposing the affair. But I guess I thought things would get better after that, and I wanted him to regain his manhood, and get closure from this. I always knew it was going to be a hard road ahead.


Things can get better but you were holding back. Maybe you should reset the R timer and continue moving forward. I do think that if he is criticizing (can't you control these kids) as you stated in your other reply then that should be addressed in MC. But you need to be 100% committed to the R in order to make progress. Hopefully now you are and things can proceed.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Just make sure that you find one that has experience with infidelity. Make sure that before your first session start that you warn the counselor that you will not tolerate any attacks against your husband. I cannot stress this enough because many times a betrayed husband has had the misfortune of being belittled and attacked by a counselor who should know better. There are always better ways to convey a message but attacking someone is never an intelligent nor effective way to do so.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

morituri said:


> Just make sure that you find one that has experience with infidelity. Make sure that before your first session start that you warn the counselor that you will not tolerate any attacks against your husband. I cannot stress this enough because many times a betrayed husband has had the misfortune of being belittled and attacked by a counselor who should know better. There are always better ways to convey a message but attacking someone is never an intelligent nor effective way to do so.



:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Agree. For sure.

Working,

It sounds like you have had multiple d-days...which in turn brings your husband back to square 1 immediately. 

So your husbands anger stems from that....not that he should be yelling slander at you...but I can tell you that his insides are churning over and over.

He will have a hard time saying "he loves you" this is normal...he is still trying to see the "new" you that you claim to be....and when he looks at you he sees the "cheater" for the time being...someone who he can't love. 

All normal....just keep at it. 

FYI: I went as far as having my wife get rid of any clothing she might have been wearing when with the OM...we got new furniture...any gifts from the OM were thrown out. 

You wouldn't think something like clothing would be a huge trigger but it was....have you thought of things like this?

The willingness of my wife to part with material things really went a long way in proving to me her commitment level.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I definitely think it is abuse. He is putting her down consistently through out the day. WS need not lose her basic human rights to help him recover. I was surprised by the amount of stick she took from the forum and the level of patience she showed in explaining the situation. BS need therapy. Or maybe you tell him your complaints in front of a neutral 3rd party(MC) You can work on the marriage by showing him your love not by him venting out his anger on you. That is not helpful to the marriage either. 

Working, Is this one of the bad days or is it unbearably bad? Do you see light at the end of the tunnel or do you see the abuse continuing? Have you expressed your concerns to him? Soon you will start resenting him for the amount of abuse he is putting you through now if you don't address it.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

The path of R is to be walked by two willing partners, despite the fact one of them is the offender. Your H must learn that if he has chosen to R, he must act accordingly. Him verbally "abusing" you extensively is obviously a problem here. 

Having said that, you should know that all BS goes thru what's called Anger Stage. He is angry towards you and holds a huge resentment against you, and rightfully so. You must understand and accept this. I say, you should give this another several months to see if his attitudes subside gradually. If not, you should start confronting him more strongly that he should control his venting, otherwise you may give up on this marriage. You can tell him that as much as you understand this is the fallout from your doing, you are still a human being and need to breath, eat, sleep, in other words "live". 

I am a XBH myself and I hate cheaters. But, I know even WS is only a human and can take only so much during R effort. Give him some more time, maybe a few more months, and if things still do not improve, take more offensive stance. However, do understand that although his way of lashing out is overly done, he is in a tremendous pain because of what you did.


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## bellamaxjoy (Oct 27, 2011)

Arnold said:


> I would think that one of the toughest htings to get over, in cases where the cheater is busted, at least, is the absolute knowledge that you are second choice, that if not for the consequences, your spouse would have jettisoned you,pronto.
> It must just seem so weird knowing that it is only the loss and the consequences(or guilt) that motivated your spouse to stay, vs actually liking you.


this is it for me, exactly. He says he came to his senses and does love me, but I fear CONSTANTLY that he is only with me out of obligation. He says no, but it is always there in the back of my head////////


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> I definitely think it is abuse. He is putting her down consistently through out the day. WS need not lose her basic human rights to help him recover. I was surprised by the amount of stick she took from the forum and the level of patience she showed in explaining the situation. BS need therapy. Or maybe you tell him your complaints in front of a neutral 3rd party(MC) You can work on the marriage by showing him your love not by him venting out his anger on you. That is not helpful to the marriage either.
> 
> Working, Is this one of the bad days or is it unbearably bad? Do you see light at the end of the tunnel or do you see the abuse continuing? Have you expressed your concerns to him? Soon you will start resenting him for the amount of abuse he is putting you through now if you don't address it.


Yeah, today has been a really bad day, and to add to it, after reading some of the mean and hurtful comments I really don't want to come back here. It has only made my day worse.

I asked that we go back to MC and deal with the issues there, and keep them there and not bring them back into our home where our children can hear. They are nervous, and afraid of his anger now, he is a great dad and they have always come to him, now they only want me to come to them when they need help, and it breaks my heart to see this. If it was healthy what he was doing this wouldn't be happening. They flinch around him now. He was never like this before, my youngest son adored him , he was a real "daddy's boy".

I really want to go back to IC soon, but the last time I went, he badgered me after every session to tell him EXACTLY what was said during the session, and if I wavered, or said I needed a place for me to share my feelings and get help for my issues, he would call me a liar and that I hiding something.

I also made a promise at Dday that I would never ask him to leave again, that I would be the one to leave even if it's my mother's home.

He apologized today that he has been abusive towards me, and has taken it out on the kids as well.

Not sure what will happen next.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

working_together said:


> He doesn't think we were in R at all because he always felt I was protecting OM when not exposing the affair. But I guess I thought things would get better after that, and I wanted him to regain his manhood, and get closure from this.


Stop trying to control the R or manage your husband's mood or reactions. It is up to him to decide what is needed to R, and up to him to decide when you have lived up to what he needs. Every time you resist him it is another anger-provoking incident.

Instead, ask him what he needs from you. Ask him how you can help him. If he wants to go over to OM's house again, don't disapprove even if you think it is a mistake.

Counseling sounds like a good idea. He needs a way to get some closure and to move forward some. There is some deeper issue triggering his anger, and perhaps in therapy it can be identified more precisely. Perhaps there is a way you respond to him which unknowingly sets him off, or perhaps he just can't get over the trust violation due to a personality feature of his.

Ultimately you do have the right and obligation to decide if you are willing and able to do what he is requiring for R. If he wants to punish you verbally for the indefinite future you don't have to stay.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

working_together said:


> He apologized today that he has been abusive towards me, and has taken it out on the kids as well.


In my opinion, this is huge. I think this is the sign that his anger stage is starting to subside a little. He is coming around to realize he cannot keep doing this. 

Just hang in there.


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## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

> Just hang in there.


This is the only thing I can add.

If you reall love him and want to be married, you need to hang in there. If the(his) verbal tirades continue, then you know what must be done. I told you before... I'm pulling for you. Good luck.


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, for me, sadly, my wife's serial betrayals have jaded me beyond belief. No more blind trust, no more innocence. And since she was the one that had a number of relationships (I didn't), if anything she should have had this out of her system.

The byproduct of all of this is that I'm now the one wildly curious if there is someone else out there that is better for me. Well, to be honest, I'm fairly certain there is, but to throw this all away to find out...that is the moral debate I live day to day.

And I know this next comment is tremendously frowned upon on this site, but, here it is - although I haven't stepped out, I know I'm a pro at compartmentalizing things (deaths of loved ones, illnesses, etc...). I feel completely awarded the right to 'explore', if I so choose to. Perhaps only this will help me realize my wife is right for me. I wish I had more benchmarks on what I like and what I don't like in a woman. She's my high school GF by the way, which really drives home the point that my experiences are limited. We didn't date all through the years (we were apart in college), but if anything, I know what advice I need to give my two children when they are settling down - TAKE YOUR TIME AND DATE MORE THAN ONE PERSON SO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU TRULY WANT.


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## skip76 (Aug 30, 2011)

I always find it weird how nobody thinks about the consequences of lifes choices anymore. Our society teaches this with its political correctness and last place trophys. Well guess what actions have consequences and eventually you will have to own those actions. We all know someone who is different after a tragic event, a loss of a child, a bad accident, a breakup etc. these traumatic events altered that persons personality and they are never the same. Now realize that what you have done to this man has been described as worse than rape and comparable to the death of a family member. He will never be the same as before, that you have to come to terms with. What you stated was going on I do not consider verbal abuse and I actually get a little upset at those who have said it was. He doesn’t want to act like this, he didn’t ask for this. it is his vicious cycle. He sees his relationship with his sons suffering and probably gets mad at you even more. this is why it drives me nuts to hear people say, my cheating wife is a great mother though. umm no, she isn’t. she cheated on those kids too, broke a family apart and now you have to watch first hand as your sons relationship with his father is forever altered. Look at what this man is losing and he did not do anything to lose it but lose it he will, based on your past decisions. Did you think of one thing that would change when deciding to engage in the affair? How would your kids life change, how about your husbands, parents and other family members who came to your wedding? You could have seen all this with a quick thought. You need to be so over the top infatuated with your husband right now and sustain that for six months before I would even think about if the husband had a problem. It might be hard but I am sure you moved heaven and earth for the OM so you better do it for this better man. If you completely give yourself to him for these next six months and let him blow off his steam I believe he might get over this but he needs to feel you “need” him like a drug , that he can do no wrong, etc. (kinda the way WW act towards the OM). He yells, you submit. this is a sustained effort, no setbacks for six months. Things can settle down after that but you will be making this up to him for the rest of your life. If you are not up to that, better bail now. Had to chime in because I always get worked up at the worries of a WW during and then after the affair. If people would just take fifteen minutes to think before they act they wouldn’t be ruining their lives. We can try to fix these marriages after affairs all day long but what are we doing to stop them from happening before it starts. I would like to help people who have yet to be cheated on but will be here next year and the year after, etc. How do we get to those people?


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## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

When my DH and I were trying R we were told that it would take 2-5 years to heal from the affair, starting from the last dday, trickle truth, or traumatic event, such as phone calls or e-mails from the OW (plural). He was also told that the reason I would ask the same questions over and over again was because I was so traumatized the information was not sinking in, and that it would be that way until I eventually processed it. I found it very insensitive when he would snap at me "we already discussed that 100 times", I truly couldn't remember his answers. Add to it that he gave me Chinese water torture version of trickle truth, and I felt like everything he told me was only half the story, so I walked away always expecting more to come out later.

As for the "I have nothing" comment, I encourage you to go back and reread your thread about your H telling the OMW, paying particular attention to the times that you stated how wonderful he was. Write out a list of all these wonderful things you love about him, the things that made you recommit to your M, keep a copy and read it when you're down, but also make sure to give him a copy so he can read it when he's down.

Hang in there.


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