# How can I trust my husband again



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

Hello all,

I found out three months ago that my husband has been cheating on me with a co-worker. 

How do I trust him again? I tried to have him talk to me about the affair and he refused. He said everytime I ask a question he has to re live the past and all he wants to do is move forward. He said he chose me and and our family and I have to let it go for us to move forward.

I told him how hurt I am and he said he knows but how long I am going to play the victim card?

I am having a hard time dealing with this and have no one to talk to. I want to stay in my marriage and I still do love my husband. Please help me.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Well first of all, he will have to quit his job if the OW still works there.

It really sounds like he is just trying to rugsweep and move on with life and not deal with his actions. 

Can you guys get into marriage counseling that is experienced in infidelity?


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

He does not want to go to counseling. He said I should go since he feels I am depressed. I am currently looking into getting counseling for myself. He says he is conscious of his actions and knows he hurt me but wants to move on with me. It was a mistake/experiment and it was just sexual, no emotional attachement. 

I asked him why he did it and what was missing in our marriage for him to feel the need to have an affair. He said nothing was missing, that he wanted to feel what it is like to have sex with someone else i.e. a blonde.

He is working on getting another job.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Do a little reading here about what a remorseful cheater looks like - it's not what your H currently looks like. 

A genuinely remorseful cheater will recognize that the betrayed spouse desperately needs to talk about it - for multiple reasons. The BS needs to see the cheater take ownership and accept accountability for what they have done. The BS needs to hear the answers to the same questions over and over and over to begin to build any faith that they are getting the truth. The BS needs to hear the cheater talk about to see that they are willing to put their own pain and discomfort in discussing it aside in order to work on repairing the damage they have inflicted. 

Fundamentally you are asking the wrong question. The question is not, "how can I trust my husband again?" But rather, "what can my husband do to earn my trust again?" You gave him your trust once and he broke it, now he has to earn it back - be sure he has done so before you give it to him a second time.


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

How do I ask the questions without sounding like I am blaming him or that I am curious about the affair? He said me asking how many times they had sex, when it started, why he did it etc is making him feel like walking away. He does not want to answer those questions because he feels I get depressed and am not ready to move forward. He said every week I asked the same questions and he is tired of answering them.

I just want to know that he is remorseful and sorry but he does not want to share that emotional side with me. He said he wants to deal with his guilt alone. I want to feel like he loves me but I don't feel it. He said the fact I he chose me and came back to work on our marriage is proof that he does love me.


----------



## hurthubby (Nov 9, 2012)

He definitly is trying to sweep this under the rug. My wife tried the same thing when I caught her having an affair. She told me the same things your husband is telling you. I too wanted to know why she felt the need to go outside our marriage. I wondered what was wrong with me or what did I do wrong to make her stray. He needs to understand the damage his actions have done to you. He is making this about him and not about your marriage. To build trust agian he needs to have his life be an open book, that is something he has caused and if he is truly remorsefull about what he did then he shouldnt have a problem with it. Hope things work out for you and Im sorry you have to live through this. I know the feeling of not having anywhere to turn to or someone to talk too about this.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Well first - I was the cheater in my marriage so I speak from that side of the fence - just thought you should understand my perspective. 

Here's the thing. If your H wants to reconcile with you - he doesn't get a vote. HE must do whatever it is that YOU need to reconcile. He's the one who broke the marriage - he does not get to define how to fix it - you do. 

Fundamentally you just ask the questions - in reality you are blaming him - but always remember - HE DID IT!! What you can do to make it easier on him is to try not to react to the emotions that his answers evoke in you. If you can express to him how his answers make you feel without actually acting on those emotions it will make it much easier for him to open up to you. In other words if after every devastating answer he gives you either kick his ass or have a complete breakdown he will eventually stop answering solely out of self preservation. The best thing you can do is to make it as easy as you can for him to give you what you need. Having said that - the obligation is 110% on him. 

This is really not optional or open to negotiation for a successful reconciliation - IMO you pretty much can't have one without the cheater being will to lay it all out on the table and talk about it as many times, and as often as the BS needs. It's hard work, it's not fun - but it is essential.


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

How do I speak to him without sounding like I am blaming him and that I do not forgive him and that I do not want to move forward? He said so far I am pushing him away by asking these questions. If I don't ask he does not talk about it either. He pretends like there is no problem. He wants to move forward. 

I just gave birth to our first baby boy three months ago and suspected him. I asked him and he denied everything until I bugged his truck and heard him on his phone with her. Only then he said yes but kept insisting it was oral sex on him. Last Wednesday was when I heard more info that they did infact had sex and only then again he said yes it was sex. I aksed why he lied and he said I cannot handle the truth and kept saying I am depressed. I am NOT depressed, I want him to talk to me.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

You do blame him and you should not forgive him until he proves he is remorseful. 

The thing about telling you that you are pushing him away is classic. He's counting on the fact that you're more afraid of the marriage ending than he is. You can't make him reconcile or be remorseful - he has to do those himself. All you can do is define what you need to repair the marriage and what the consequences are if he can't meet those needs. Yes this is an ultimatum, the only caveat is be sure you mean it. 

Here's the other side - until he does these things he's not remorseful, and he is showing you and your marriage no respect - let alone love. Can you live with that?

Not to make it worse, but here's a question for you - how do you know his affair is over?


----------



## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

You are being way too nice to him. Read the posts on this forum. Everytime a BS is nice they get hurt. Not only can you not trust him but until he shows real remorse you should not even consider it.


It is only the BS that kick their WS to the curb that get any kind of chance at R. You need to show him some real consequinces for his actions. Dump him. Tell him again how bad he hurt you, and that you can see he really doesn't care. Then file for divorce. You can always stop the divorce latter if you want to. If he comes crawling back crying and begging then and only then can you consider R. Anything less, don't take him back. He will just cheat again when you let your guard down.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Your husband doesn't sound remorseful. He is manipulating and controlling you. He cheated and you're afraid that you will ask too many questions & he will get fed up and leave.

If it were me, I would tell him to deal with the damage he caused or get out. He has you very off-balance right now. Not only did you have your world shattered by his cheating, but he's adding insult to injury by letting you know that he's given you the 'gift' of his presence by choosing you. It's not a gift. You're the gift to him by agreeing to take him back.


----------



## hurthubby (Nov 9, 2012)

You cant just forgive something like this so easily. You need to let him know that forgivness comes over time and its something he needs to work on. Hes shutting down on you when you push for answers. When I found out about my wife, I pushed until she broke down and told me everything. I felt I had a right to know the answers to the questions I asked. You need to let him know that once you get the answers then you can begin to heal and SLOWLY start to move forward, but if he refuses to talk to you then he is only causing more damage to your marriage.


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

I only have his word that it is over. I promised to not bug his truck anymore. Yes, he is the one who cheated and he is the one making demands on how to move forward. If I say anything then he walks away from me and our child. That is basically the ultimatum. He said I have to trust him that the affair is over.

I am afraid that he will leave me, I cannot lie that is the truth. I do not want to be alone. We have been married for 14 years and just had a baby. I AM afraid of being alone. And I think he knows that which is why he is treating me like this.


----------



## hurthubby (Nov 9, 2012)

You cant be affraid of being alone, I know easier said than done. But you have to do whats best for you and the baby. Being with someone who does not respect you, sets a bad example for your children and shows them its ok to let ppl walk all over you. Its gonna be hard(really hard) but you need to tell him to man up or get out. If he truly cares then he will do whatever it takes to make the marriage work. Right now it sounds like hes already walkin out the door and ur stopping him, so he wants to see just what he can get away with. If you dont correct this now it will happen agian, assuming he isnt already doing it.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Have you heard the saying, "the one who cares less in a relationship is the one who holds the power"?

That's where you are I'm afraid. Until it is more important to you that your spouse love you, respect you, and treat you as someone who loves you should than not being alone is you're in a pickle. 

Trust him that his affair is over???? I'm sorry - but - HA!!!!!! That is completely laughable. Almost no one - no one quits an affair voluntarily and especially with no drama. It just doesn't happen. The death of an affair is ugly and emotionally violent. 

Spend some time reading here - read the link in my signature "Cheaters read this." You will find very little variation in what the collective wisdom here is about what a cheater must to and how they must act in order to have any chance of reconciliation. There's a reason for that - because it works.


----------



## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

cramdas said:


> How do I ask the questions without sounding like I am blaming him or that I am curious about the affair? He said me asking how many times they had sex, when it started, why he did it etc is making him feel like walking away. He does not want to answer those questions because he feels I get depressed and am not ready to move forward. He said every week I asked the same questions and he is tired of answering them.
> 
> I just want to know that he is remorseful and sorry but he does not want to share that emotional side with me. He said he wants to deal with his guilt alone. I want to feel like he loves me but I don't feel it. He said the fact I he chose me and came back to work on our marriage is proof that he does love me.


This sounds A LOT like my WH and I will tell you from experience it makes it near impossible to move forward and forget about it. Its been 4, almost 5 years since I found out about my husbands affair and I still think about it daily. I dont think he is remorseful or cares how much he hurts me but he says if he didnt care he wouldnt be here. Well a damn roommate could be here..I dont need a roommate.

I didnt mean to get off on my own issues, I just wanted to let you know that if he wont talk you cant force him to talk. You also cant force him to be remorseful or show compassion towards you when you need it. Its a decision you have to make on whether you want to live like that.


----------



## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Do a little reading here about what a remorseful cheater looks like - it's not what your H currently looks like.
> 
> A genuinely remorseful cheater will recognize that the betrayed spouse desperately needs to talk about it - for multiple reasons. The BS needs to see the cheater take ownership and accept accountability for what they have done. The BS needs to hear the answers to the same questions over and over and over to begin to build any faith that they are getting the truth. The BS needs to hear the cheater talk about to see that they are willing to put their own pain and discomfort in discussing it aside in order to work on repairing the damage they have inflicted.
> 
> ...


Sigma hit the nail on the head. 

the disloyal spouse is always the one who needs therapy first and foremost.


----------



## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

cramdas said:


> I only have his word that it is over. I promised to not bug his truck anymore. Yes, he is the one who cheated and he is the one making demands on how to move forward. If I say anything then he walks away from me and our child. That is basically the ultimatum. He said I have to trust him that the affair is over.
> 
> I am afraid that he will leave me, I cannot lie that is the truth. I do not want to be alone. We have been married for 14 years and just had a baby. I AM afraid of being alone. And I think he knows that which is why he is treating me like this.


That is exactly why he is doing what he is doing..control! He knows you are afraid to be without him so he has the upper hand and can make the rules. Its not fair to you at all, nor your child! He wants to tell you what to do and you accept it and I almost bet that he is still seeing her. I know you are hurt but the hurt will never go away until you know for sure that she is out of the picture and your husband shows remorse.


----------



## hurthubby (Nov 9, 2012)

I hate to say this but its almost a sure thing to say he is still having an affair. All he is doing is making sure you dont spy on him anymore, that makes it easier for him to do what he does.


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

Thank you everyone. Being on this forum for only a few minutes have helped me. I do need to think hard what it is that I want in my life. I really need to be strong and do what is best for me and my son.


----------



## hurthubby (Nov 9, 2012)

You do need to be strong for you and your son, I know its easier said than done. But I promise you once you show him he doesn't have the control he thinks he does, you will begin to feel better about yourself and feel proud that you have more strength then you thought you had. Good luck and keep us posted on what happens


----------



## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

I think you will benefit more spending your energy on become strong for yourself and overcoming the fear of losing him rather than spending it on learning how to trust your unrepenting hus.band


----------



## Silverlining (Jan 15, 2012)

cramdas said:


> How do I speak to him without sounding like I am blaming him and that I do not forgive him and that I do not want to move forward? He said so far I am pushing him away by asking these questions. If I don't ask he does not talk about it either. He pretends like there is no problem. He wants to move forward.
> 
> I just gave birth to our first baby boy three months ago and suspected him. I asked him and he denied everything until I bugged his truck and heard him on his phone with her. Only then he said yes but kept insisting it was oral sex on him. Last Wednesday was when I heard more info that they did infact had sex and only then again he said yes it was sex. I aksed why he lied and he said I cannot handle the truth and kept saying I am depressed. I am NOT depressed, I want him to talk to me.


Your husband is a piece of excement!!!!

Your have every right to be depressed right now! He destroyed your marriage and killed your dreams/image of him. You are mourning the loss of the man you thought you were married to. Reality has slapped you in the face and you now realize you are married to a man who would lie, deceive and cheat on his pregnant wife. You are the one who decides whether you want to stay married to him (a cheater). 

If he doesn't deal with the root of why he broke his marriage vows and lost his moral compass, he will repeat this behavior. This is not yours to fix. He must fix this since he destroyed it.

He broke your trust. Trust is earned and in order for you to build trust he needs to be transparent. You have every right to ask the questions you need answers to. Do not feel guilty. Your selfish husband holds all the pieces to the puzzle. You are trying to build the same puzzle but you are missing half the pieces. Your brain is trying to solve the puzzle with what pieces it has. Sometimes this is worse. He needs to give you the missing pieces so you can move on. Otherwise this issue (puzzle) won't be solved for you. 

In order for reconciliation your husband needs to write a No Contact letter, quit his job, be totally transparent. This is the price of infidelity. 

I'd suggest you both read Not Just Freinds by Shirley Glass

Good luck!


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Well said.


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

We are going away this weekend to work on our marriage. I really don't know what to do. I want to save my marriage but it will be at the expense of losing him so he can realize how serious this situation is. I know this....I am also worried about the financial ramifications if I kick him out and wait for him to come to his senses and be remorseful. It is not easy choosing the right path is it? 

I am too comfortable and am afraid of being alone.


----------



## Silverlining (Jan 15, 2012)

You must do what you fear most. 

You can not save your marriage. The marriage you had no longer exists. Stop trying to save something thats gone. 

Sometimes we have this desperation to save what is known and familiar no matter how screwed up it was. 

You can decide to start over (rebuild and reconcile) but he needs to do the heavy lifting.


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

Just a quick update. I've made an appt to see a therapist, I start this afternoon. My husband still gets upset when I try to discuss the affair with him. He wants me to let it go and threatens to leave if I continue probing him. Last night we had another argument. He said he did what he did with his faculty intact; he knew it was something wrong he did and he chose to do it and now he will bear the consequences of his actions. 

I am hoping the sessions with the counselor will help me. I am hurt and angry and when I tell him how I feel he says he knows but yet he does not console me the way a remorseful husband should. Am I asking for too much?


----------



## kylies72 (May 16, 2012)

Aww honey I am so sorry to hear about your husbands affair. I found out my husband was cheating around two years ago and I still cant forgive him. He left me after a massive uproar and I bet you are wondering what did I do wrong for him to look elsewhere for intimate encounters.

Baby girl, my advice is that if you cant forgive him then you will be in the same boat as I was. You will live in anger and worry that it will happen again or if it is still happening. He doesn't have the right to tell you to get over it and to say that you are playing the victim card. At the end of the day you are the victim.

After going through my lengthy divorce which is supposed to settle April 2013, I hate cheaters, I hate my husband for what he did to me, my family, our marriage. Once that trust is broken in a marriage is really is all over and its a ticking time bomb as to when you will see that you deserve better than this. Your new born child deserves better than this.

Overall there are alot of people on here that are so willing to support you through this and that is great. I personally think that once that trust is gone it is near impossible to get it back because you will be thinking about his affair for a long time.

Think of your options, speak to your folks if you can and get their opinion.

I wish I could just scream out and say file for divorce but I know everyone is different.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

So can I ask what may be a difficult and pointed question??



What do you expect the counselor to help you accomplish?

The counselor cannot reconcile with your for your H's infidelity, it sounds like you are expecting the counselor to help you learn to live with the fact that your H betrayed you and is not remorseful enough to be held accountable. Could that be the case? If so you are only wanting the counselor to help you quash your own self respect and good instincts.

IMO your H is in one of only two places. One is he's bluffing, believing that you are more afraid of him leaving than he is of having to face what he's done. To quote a line from "The Hunt for Red October" "The hard part about playing chicken is knowing when to flinch." Two, is he's a coward and that the destruction of his marriage is, to his thinking, preferable to having to face and be held accountable for his actions. My personal opinion is that he's some combination of the two. The only way to know is to call him on it and see if he'll turn and face it before he lets the marriage blow up. 

I applaud your efforts to take care of yourself and your desire to want to save your marriage. BUT. Make no mistake, without true remorse from your H you are not reconciling, at best you are rug sweeping and the odds for a repeat of all this are very very good. Only true remorse and real reconciliation offer any chance of a successful marriage post infidelity. Of course that just my opinion.


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

I agree with you....I don't know what to expect from my counselor. What I want to hear is that I am not crazy for feeling this way, that it is normal to feel this way and this is what my husband refuse to acknowledge. The fact that this has a huge impact on my life...I don't know how to get that point to him. I want to move on just like he does but I cannot stop thinking of how much he has hurt me and why he did it. His reasoning for why is NOT acceptable. If this was part my fault I would own up to it but I thought we had the perfect marriage and our moral values and marraige vows were a priority but now he would not acknowlege our religion or belief system. He said society expects too much of him and he was living his life to please others but finally he did something fo himself and he is now happy. How does that make me feel? I feel like a piece of *****. 

Everytime we have an argument he makes it look like it is my fault because I am a nagger and my curiousity will make me end up a single mom and alone. 

I do need to speak to a professional and focus on me. I've always been there for him now I have to be there for my baby and myself. I don't know what I will do but I have to muster the courage to do the right thing and I do know what the right thing is.


----------



## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Do a little reading here about what a remorseful cheater looks like - it's not what your H currently looks like.
> 
> A genuinely remorseful cheater will recognize that the betrayed spouse desperately needs to talk about it - for multiple reasons. The BS needs to see the cheater take ownership and accept accountability for what they have done. The BS needs to hear the answers to the same questions over and over and over to begin to build any faith that they are getting the truth. The BS needs to hear the cheater talk about to see that they are willing to put their own pain and discomfort in discussing it aside in order to work on repairing the damage they have inflicted.
> 
> Fundamentally you are asking the wrong question. The question is not, "how can I trust my husband again?" But rather, "what can my husband do to earn my trust again?" You gave him your trust once and he broke it, now he has to earn it back - be sure he has done so before you give it to him a second time.


Beautiful Response :smthumbup:


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I am wondering what you talked about at counseling.

Your husbands attitude must change if you are to stay married. If he keeps being such a jerk, you will never be happy with him.

PLEASE do some reading around here - you will see that the only BS's who successfully get over being cheated on are the ones who do what's best for them and to hell with what the WS wants or thinks. And the only successful R's are those where the BS figuratively hits the WS over the head.

Your husband should be ready to chop off his left ball and eat it if that's what you need right now. He should be GROVELING.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Oh, and get tested for STD's. God only knows what he picked up.


----------



## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

cramdas said:


> I agree with you....I don't know what to expect from my counselor. What I want to hear is that I am not crazy for feeling this way, that it is normal to feel this way and this is what my husband refuse to acknowledge. The fact that this has a huge impact on my life...I don't know how to get that point to him. I want to move on just like he does but I cannot stop thinking of how much he has hurt me and why he did it. His reasoning for why is NOT acceptable. If this was part my fault I would own up to it but I thought we had the perfect marriage and our moral values and marraige vows were a priority but now he would not acknowlege our religion or belief system. He said society expects too much of him and he was living his life to please others but finally he did something fo himself and he is now happy. How does that make me feel? I feel like a piece of *****.
> 
> Everytime we have an argument he makes it look like it is my fault because I am a nagger and my curiousity will make me end up a single mom and alone.
> 
> I do need to speak to a professional and focus on me. I've always been there for him now I have to be there for my baby and myself. I don't know what I will do but I have to muster the courage to do the right thing and I do know what the right thing is.


Sounds a lot like my WS. I hope the following will be helpful for you. You must be kind to yourself as much as possible and deflect his blaming you. Stay fresh and beautiful, buy yourself flowers don't say you bought them. Dress up at home or even to go to the grocery store. Take bubble baths and wear perfume at home... In other words make yourself feel good about you. Know your value, what you like about you and what makes you unique. KNOW none of it is your fault. It was his decision. Trusting him again is going to take a long time and will come when you are comfortable that he has integrity. If he has one, get a spy app and install it on his mobile smartphone since he is blocking you out - to test his honesty about the affair ending. Face the truth and keep trusting your very keen instincts. They will guide you to the best decision for you.


----------



## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

cramdas said:


> I only have his word that it is over. I promised to not bug his truck anymore. Yes, he is the one who cheated and he is the one making demands on how to move forward. If I say anything then he walks away from me and our child. That is basically the ultimatum. He said I have to trust him that the affair is over.
> 
> I am afraid that he will leave me, I cannot lie that is the truth. I do not want to be alone. We have been married for 14 years and just had a baby. I AM afraid of being alone. And I think he knows that which is why he is treating me like this.


What a jerkwad!

Listen, I know you are afraid of being alone, but you should not be taking this kind of abuse. I also understand that things are delicate because you've just had a baby. But you somehow need to insist that he come clean and work with you on this.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It's very possible that this is very brazen cake-eating. He was caught cheating, says he has stopped when he didn't want to & simply refuses to talk about it while he secretly continues the A. You're so frightened of him leaving that you haven't done anything to verify that he has stopped. He's bullying you out of getting any information that could confirm that he's no longer in the A.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

alte Dame said:


> It's very possible that this is very brazen cake-eating. He was caught cheating, says he has stopped when he didn't want to & simply refuses to talk about it while he secretly continues the A. You're so frightened of him leaving that you haven't done anything to verify that he has stopped. He's bullying you out of getting any information that could confirm that he's no longer in the A.


Exactly. That is exactly what's happening.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

cramdas, I am so sorry you are here. Your husband is, in my opinion, being incredibly cruel to the mother of a newborn to threaten to leave _her_ because _he_ couldn't keep his pants zipped.



cramdas said:


> How do I speak to him without sounding like I am blaming him and that I do not forgive him and that I do not want to move forward? He said so far I am pushing him away by asking these questions. If I don't ask he does not talk about it either. He pretends like there is no problem. He wants to move forward.


Have you read the book, Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass? She was a nationally recognized infidelity researcher. A link to the google books excerpts is in my signature (not the whole book, but at least you can see from the table of contents how comprehensive it is). You need to start reading and educating yourself about infidelity, because you are doubting that what you're feeling is normal. You are totally normal.



> *I aksed why he lied and he said I cannot handle the truth and kept saying I am depressed. I am NOT depressed, I want him to talk to me*.


 You see him putting words in your mouth? This is called GASLIGHTING. Gaslighting is a term coined from the movie Gaslight, where Ingrid Bergman's husband in the movie kept turning the gas lights high and low, bright and dim, and then telling her she was imagining things. He was trying to make her think that she was crazy. Telling you that you are depressed, when you are not, is simply the modern, updated version. "Honey, you are making a big deal out of nothing. But of course you would, because you're crazy." That is essentially what he's saying to you.

Gaslighting, the way he is doing it, under the circumstance, is tremendously patronizing and disrespectful. He's basically patting you on the noggin, and saying, "now don't you worry your purty little head about this man stuff." I'm glad you can see this lame attempt to side step the issue for what it is.



cramdas said:


> I only have his word that it is over. I promised to not bug his truck anymore. Yes, he is the one who cheated and he is the one making demands on how to move forward. If I say anything then he walks away from me and our child. That is basically the ultimatum. He said I have to trust him that the affair is over.
> 
> I am afraid that he will leave me, I cannot lie that is the truth. I do not want to be alone. We have been married for 14 years and just had a baby. I AM afraid of being alone. And I think he knows that which is why he is treating me like this.


Here is what I'm begging you to do. I know you have a newborn. My kids are young and I remember very well what that was like. What I am asking you to do is find a lawyer. Lawyers will meet with you for free for an initial interview. Discuss what your options are if your husband should abandon you. Right now you are paralyzed by fear over this--and you are right to be concerned, because he's quite explicitly threatened to go. So you need to get a lawyer NOW and figure out your rights.

What I'm really concerned about is that your husband may be squirreling away money or some way hiding finances from you. This is another reason you need to get a lawyer. You do not want to wait until your husband has drained the bank account and disappeared to pick up the pieces.

Once you know what your rights are, what will happen in a divorce, and how to protect your finances from "disappearing," you will likely see things from a different perspective. You may feel empowered to stand up to his bullying. PLEASE do this for your son's sake.


----------



## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

Is there any history of emotional, verbal, or physical abuse since you've been together?


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

You promised him you would not bug his truck again...screw that...my attitude would be I will bug your truck and everything until I know you are not doing anything.

In my case my attitude was to check everything as often as I wanted and when I wanted...sorry no way my H was going to tell me not to. 

This guy sounds like an idiot. Kick him out.


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

I met with the therapist last week and hubby will be meeting with him tomorrow. The therapist basically said the same as everyone on this forum is saying. I am hoping that we can discuss our issues with the mediator and that he can chanel his thoughts towards reconcillation. Right now he just wants to forget and move on and expects me to do the same. He says he is sorry but gets upset when I look sad and depress and want to talk about the affair. 

I am now focusing on myself and taking out my frustrations at the gym. Last week he met me at the gym wanting to work out with me but then wants us to leave early before I've completed my workout. This week I told him to go to the gym in the morning and I will go in the afternoon; that way I can get a good workout and he can babysit; he agreed.

I don't know what his intentions are....he says he wants to save the marriage but yet he still has a "friendship" with the other woman.


----------



## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

cramdas said:


> I met with the therapist last week and hubby will be meeting with him tomorrow. The therapist basically said the same as everyone on this forum is saying. I am hoping that we can discuss our issues with the mediator and that he can chanel his thoughts towards reconcillation. Right now he just wants to forget and move on and expects me to do the same. He says he is sorry but gets upset when I look sad and depress and want to talk about the affair.
> 
> I am now focusing on myself and taking out my frustrations at the gym. Last week he met me at the gym wanting to work out with me but then wants us to leave early before I've completed my workout. This week I told him to go to the gym in the morning and I will go in the afternoon; that way I can get a good workout and he can babysit; he agreed.
> 
> I don't know what his intentions are....he says he wants to save the marriage but yet he still has a "friendship" with the other woman.


I think you will hear here (and I agree) that he can have no ongoing relationship with OW and work on reconciliation. If he refuses to give her up, you are in no shape to try and start fixing things. He needs to get his head out, out of his azz and out of that relationship and acknowledge that this is a problem. 

I hope you two can make some headway in counseling. That he has agreed to go is a start, but until he is done with her, counseling will probably not do much good, unless he will fess up in front of the counseler in ways he hasn't with you.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Why are you WITH someone who so completely disrespects you like that?!??!?!

Forget channeling your husbands thought toward reconciliation. Channel them towards smartening the hell up!! He should NOT be talking to OW - at all, ever, for ANY reason. If he does, kick his ass out. And he gets upset when you get sad?!?! WTF. He should be grovelling at your feet begging for mercy.

This just pisses me off, when these cheaters act like anyone owes them anything. ESPECIALLY the BS. DO NOT put up with this.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

cramdas said:


> I don't know what his intentions are....he says he wants to save the marriage but yet he still has a "friendship" with the other woman.


I hate to be blunt but if you don't know what his intentions are with this sentence above -well you're the only one. 

You can forget reconciliation and for that matter counseling (other than for yourself) until he no longer has any relationship with the OW. As long as the OW is in the picture in any form there are three of you in your marriage. I assume you're not ok with that??

Plain and simple he is cake eating and he's not going to stop until you MAKE him. You're not going to nice him out of this. Search around and read up on the 180. You need to enforce some consequences.


----------



## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

maybe try reversing how you are thinking about it? 

you are afraid he will leave you? Of course you are. But he has already left. So now what can be done to bring him back? The only choice you have is to let him see how bad it is (note, I didn't say MAKE him see how bad it is).

You are afraid that taking a stand will force his hand, and he will run to the other woman? That is understandable. But he has already chosen the other woman. So, what do you have to lose?

When your child grows and does something wrong, hopefully you will hold them accountable, not sweep it under the rug. Your spouse is a child right now, and he is throwing one hell of a temper tantrum. So you let him see that his little TT is not going to sway you from your course. Sigma is right, you can't nice someone out of this. How many times have you seen parents barter with a 2 and 3 year old, when what they needed was a very clear punishment. 

And honestly, what you will soon learn by taking a very strong stand is that you are not broken. You are a lot stronger than you think. And that you will be okay. Because you are not the flawed one, here! 

My WW is still figuring this out. Imagine, a year later, and I am still on the same course I was a year ago. She still has some hoops to jump through. It kills her each and every time. And I very evenly tell her that she doesn't have to jump through it. She can leave at any time.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

cramdas, let me explain what the others are seeing so that you too can understand what is going on.

Basically, he wants to have you both. He doesn't want to choose. And as long as you don't force the issue, he will never, ever have to choose. He can keep on "cake-eating." He can have it all.

He has something with you. You fulfill certain needs that he has. She fulfills others. 

Now here is where many people would jump in and say, "if only you, cramdas, would fulfill those needs, then everything would be ok." But that is not the case. I'm sure there are things you could do differently--nobody is perfect. However, your husband has to TELL you what those needs are, and ALLOW you the chance to meet them, in order for you to meet those needs. And even so, some people--and I suspect your husband is one of them--are selfish enough that they horribly confuse what they "need" with what they WANT.

But, we are not confused by what he wants. As long as he maintains contact with that woman, his actions speak far louder than any words. He wants you both, and he will threaten and blackmail you with leaving you if you dare suggest that he give her up.


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

Guys....He says the affair is over and there is no contact however I bugged his truck last Wednesday I heard them talking about staying friends and as long as they are working there he wants to talk to her; that they had such a long relationship. It seems like he ended it but still wants to remain friends. He does not know I bugged this truck since I promised not to do it and he believe me. I am working on my plan B to secure myself financially before I mae a move in the mean time I am hopeful counseling helps and also he comes to his senses. He is obviously lying to me but I cannot tell him I know this until I have concrete evidence that it is still continuing.

I know I am being nice but I do want to make this work. If there is evidence that it is not over then that's different.


----------



## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

Oh, and I agree with those who say lawyer up. There are few penalties to getting good information. Like this site, a good laywer will give you black and white about what you are looking for. If you tell him first, he will give you a serious song and dance about how bad it will be for you. 

The way I see it, getting information gives you power and tells you exactly: how affairs work so you know his next move before he even makes it, about how divorce works so you know what is coming even though he may "think" he knows.

Once he finds out you have seen a lawyer, be prepared for him to go absolute ape sh!t. It happens. And if it is the event which sends him away, just remind yourself that he is the one who chose to tuck and run rather than fight for his marriage. He is the coward. He is the child. He will lose out. Lose out on a life with YOU! He can have the ho bag. Karma never forgets.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

cramdas said:


> I know I am being nice but I do want to make this work. If there is evidence that it is not over then that's different.


What more evidence do you need?!?!?!?!?!?! IT ISN'T OVER.

You're hopeful counseling helps? Helps who? And that he comes to his senses?!?! HE ISN'T GOING TO COME TO HIS SENSES. He knows exactly what he's doing - he's having both you and her and you are letting him.


----------



## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

cramdas said:


> Guys....He says the affair is over and there is no contact...
> 
> He does not know I bugged this truck since I promised not to do it...
> 
> ...


Get your information about his affair, all the proof you need. Keep talking to us here. At least we will tell you the "truth". What you do with it, will be up to you. It is going to be really, really hard for you. But even if you continue to do things we don't agree with, we are here for you. Someone should be...


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

cramdas said:


> I heard them talking about staying friends


Take it from someone who's been there - there is no such thing as staying friends with your AP. It just isn't possible, once that line is crossed the relationship cannot go backwards. 

They forfeited the right to be friends when they had an affair together.


----------



## Silverlining (Jan 15, 2012)

Classic tale of cake eating!!!


Just know what you're in for.

He is tempting himself with the forbidden apple. He's already had a taste and he wants to go back for more. It's just a matter of time


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

cramdas said:


> I don't know what his intentions are....he says he wants to save the marriage but yet he still has a "friendship" with the other woman.


Cake eating. Those are his intentions. Unaceptable.


----------



## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

OP- Let me explain to you (from my own experience) what staying friends means... it means he wants to keep some sort of relationship with her in case you can't reconcile... a back-up plan if you will. I have been the OW and we tried to "stay friends" unsuccessfully about 5x. It doesn't work, and is not something you should tolerate.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Take it from someone who's been there - there is no such thing as staying friends with your AP. It just isn't possible, once that line is crossed the relationship cannot go backwards.
> 
> They forfeited the right to be friends when they had an affair together.


Just to be clear--Sigma is a husband who was in an emotional affair. He and his wife have reconciled. He knows what he's talking about.

I am a wife who has reconciled with her husband who was in an emotional affair for over 4 years (I didn't know about it for most of that time). 

Others posting in your thread have similar experiences and knowledge.

Your husband maintaining a "friendship" with this woman is a FAIL. If you don't believe us, perhaps you would believe Dr. Harley, who wrote the widely respected marital guide, His Needs / Her Needs. In his opinion, a disloyal spouse should cut off all contact with an affair partner, permanently. That's because their relationship is like a weed, unless you pull it out by the roots (i.e., stop all contact between them) it will just keep growing back, only worse and worse.

It may help you to understand what happens in an affair. Your husband is sexually attracted to this woman. He found interacting with her in an inappropriate fashion to be extremely fun. In fact, this sort of fun can be measured in his brain via a hormonal reward circuit--pleasure is enjoyable and therefore, on some level, addictive.

The problem is, affairs are quite addictive (they are compulsions, extremely bad habits, similar to gambling) and almost no one simply walks away from them. My husband did (after I caught him a second time) but at that point he had been in the affair for 4.5 years. Most people cannot tolerate an affair that lasts that long (me either, I just didn't know). 

Anyhow, the point is, he might "try" to be friends with her, but as you will discover as you maintain that VAR, he will slip right back into treating her as more than "just" a friend. He is already infatuated--that is why he cannot simply "quit" her and is trying to figure out a way to stay in contact. So she is not unlike a drug to him. She is an ESCAPE from boredom, stress, and anxiety. If you had a drug like that--do you think you'd just stop "using"? No way. Don't you, with your exhaustion and the sameness of caring for a baby, wish you had a similar escape? It's not hard to understand why he is enthralled, even though it's so painful to contemplate.


*HAVE YOU LOOKED INTO THE BOOK NOT JUST FRIENDS YET?* It's been recommended several times in your thread for a reason. You can get it at any decent-sized library. A link to the google excerpts is in my signature; take a look at the table of contents, you will see why we're recommending it.


----------



## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

He has no fear of repurcussions from having another affair since he didn't have any consequences from the first one.

He shows no remorse and is twisting things to make you seem like the one with all the problems.

Your question is "how can you ever trust him again"?

Trust isn't the issue here. He's almost certainly going to cheat on you again, that much is a given. It's more about "how can you get him to respect you" and the answer is "You need to find some inner strength and find some good solid self respect before you can expect it from him".

Treat him how he deserves to be treated, nothing more.

Right now you're giving him the world and he's taking it with no regard for your feelings whatsoever and he's got no reason to change.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Your H is a bully & we all understand how hard it is to deal with what he dishes out.

Stay on this thread & perhaps it will help you get the courage to stand up to him.


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

So I also have the find iphone app on his cell phone and saw that he wasn’t at work so I called him. Apparently they are now using her vehicle since he is paranoid that I am still bugging his truck. He said he is on site at work at I should come see. Obviously if I go I will see his truck there. Last night he got upset that I was paranoid that he wasn’t at work when he did told me that he was. I said why is your work phone forwarded to your cell and you were not in your office. He has so many excuses coming out his ass it is unbelievable.

He said he wants to separate; that he cannot live with a psycho ***** anymore. He does not want to see the counselor alone so we are coming together this afternoon. He said he will tell the counselor the same things he is telling me (lies). I told him if he wants to leave to pack his stuff when I am not there because it is so hard for me to watch him leave. Guys, I am so weak. I hear everything you are saying and I know this is the only way to save what’s left of this marriage. I feel like the husband I knew died and I am mourning him. Please help me stay strong to watch him go……


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

cramdas,
the most damning thing of all, in my opinion, is that your husband will not see the counselor alone. He cannot bear to look a person, who is essentially a stranger, in the eyes, and admit to what he's doing to his wife and little baby.

You will note that I don't express any surprise over what he's doing; as I said above, he is getting "high" off of this woman's attention, it is far more fun than the reality of being a husband and father, and like any addict he will go to enormous lengths to get his "hit."

Your baby is so young--you have to do what is in the best interests of your child. *It might be that right this minute isn't the time to leave him--or to stand up to him--only you can be the judge of that.* He has, on the other hand, threatened to leave you, so if I were you I'd stop chasing him around town and instead prepare in every way possible for the possibility that he will abandon you.

As I said before, my biggest fear for you is that he will sequester finances. Cheaters are liars, and someone who has repeatedly and knowingly lied to your face the way he has is not to be trusted. Unfortunately, I believe he is more than capable of taking the money and running. He seems so coldly justified in what he is doing and he seems not to care one whit about your circumstances.

No matter what you choose to do, your #1 priority right now needs to be making sure you are as financially protected as you can be considering what is going on.


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Wow he is "babysitting" his own kid..what a great guy..(sarcasm here)

Kick the jerk to the curb....I am willing to bet that if he is not still involved with the OW sexually right now that soon he will be again.


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

cramdas said:


> So I also have the find iphone app on his cell phone and saw that he wasn’t at work so I called him. Apparently they are now using her vehicle since he is paranoid that I am still bugging his truck. He said he is on site at work at I should come see. Obviously if I go I will see his truck there. Last night he got upset that I was paranoid that he wasn’t at work when he did told me that he was. I said why is your work phone forwarded to your cell and you were not in your office. He has so many excuses coming out his ass it is unbelievable.
> 
> He said he wants to separate; that he cannot live with a psycho ***** anymore. He does not want to see the counselor alone so we are coming together this afternoon. He said he will tell the counselor the same things he is telling me (lies). I told him if he wants to leave to pack his stuff when I am not there because it is so hard for me to watch him leave. Guys, I am so weak. I hear everything you are saying and I know this is the only way to save what’s left of this marriage. I feel like the husband I knew died and I am mourning him. Please help me stay strong to watch him go……


While you are kicking his ass out the door tell him statistically that relationships that start as affairs only have a 3% chance of working out so good luck to him and his OW... I am sure they will have a happy life together 

I would also start telling his family what he has done...that boy has to start feeling some shame and embarrassment.


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Can you call her out as well? I would be phoning/harrassing her too.


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

He said she does not want to get involved...I don't want to contact her. I think since he has made up his mind to leave I have to be strong to say please go....

Now I have to take care of my son. My parents will help me.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

cramdas said:


> He said she does not want to get involved...


and why exactly do either of them get a vote in your decision to out her or not??????


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

Sigma,

I don't want to fight for this guy anymore. I've been doing this for 4 months and begging him to stay. I look weak in his eyes and he is right I am weak. Now, I have to let him go....


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

I sent him an email to leave before I get home but he hasn't respond....


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

cramdas said:


> He said she does not want to get involved...I don't want to contact her. I think since he has made up his mind to leave I have to be strong to say please go....
> 
> Now I have to take care of my son. My parents will help me.


What do you know about her?
Where does she work?
Who are her parents?

If you tell these people what she is doing, they will lean on her to cut it out.

This is NOT about embarrassing her or harrassing her or making her feel bad. She doesn't feel bad or embarrassed. This is about talking politely to the people in her life SHE respects in order for them to encourage her to do the morally right thing. You are not out for revenge or trying to hurt her--if you were, it would come through and these people would just ignore you. But if you come from a position of asking for support for your marriage from the community (as the people attending your wedding, for example, promised to do), you will see that in that spirit, this is an important step in attempting to save your marriage (if you want to save it).

There is a cultural conspiracy of silence surrounding this sort of behavior, everyone is embarrassed by it and no one wants to talk about it. Cheaters rely on this silence, indeed, they thrive on it. All you would be doing is telling the truth.

------------

Separately--what about his family, friends, etc., people he looks up to? Have you told them yet?


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

cramdas said:


> Sigma,
> 
> I don't want to fight for this guy anymore. I've been doing this for 4 months and begging him to stay. I look weak in his eyes and he is right I am weak. Now, I have to let him go....


Ah - that's a different issue. If you make the decision not to out her simply because it's not worth it to you that is your decision not his imposed on you.

I'll say this. Of course every situation is different and unique, but once you've been here a while you realize that the vast majority of these situations follow the same script astonishingly closely - based on my recall of your situation so far yours is pretty close to on track. Begging him to quit, to stay with you was doomed to fail from the start. What it sounds like you are about to do is the only thing that works the vast majority of the time. What works is consequences. You can't make him quit or stay, all you can do is tell him what the consequences of his actions are and then follow through. 

Many BS find themselves where you are - exhausted - out of energy - and to the point of saying if that's what you want, fine I'll hold the door for you. The really ironic part is that is normally the exact moment that the light bulb goes off for the WS and they say, "HOLY SH!T SHE MEANS IT!!!" and start begging you not to kick them to the curb. It's also why the 180 is so recommended here, it's intent is to insulate and protect the BS from the actions or lack there of of the wayward. 

For my $.02 I wouldn't blame you in the least if you told to him the road and not let the door knob catch him in the ass on the way out - and I'm usually a big proponent of R. My only message in the above is just be prepared for a sudden "change of heart" by him once he realizes you mean business. May not happen - but be prepared.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> What do you know about her?
> Where does she work?
> Who are her parents?
> 
> ...


There is also another reason for exposure.

Right now, he is setting things up so that you will leave him--and then he gets to introduce the new girlfriend all the way around as if they just happened to meet.

If you tell people he cares about now, and you tell her family, at least they will know the TRUTH about how their relationship started. If you let them walk off into the sunset, they will get to paint you as the bad guy who he just fell out of love with etc etc and he is just getting the good in life he deserves.

Again, please understand, this is NOT about revenge or being mean to them. Strangers, her family, yours too, will know whether you are telling them out of spite and bitterness. So it is not about that at all--it's about shining the light of day onto the dank underbelly of their selfish choices.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You are not weak for loving someone and wanting your family to stay together. You are not weak for thinking that sneaking around with another woman and betraying your vows is something to be condemned. And he is not strong - what kind of stand is he taking, the strong man that he is? That he has a God-given right to cheat on you no questions asked? What a man!

No, the strong thing is to honor your vows. & that's what you've been doing. I really, really hope that you will let him leave right now. He sounds like the type who will offer to stay if you will finally back off, big man that he is. I hope if he does this that you will tell him it's OK, that he can leave, that you don't want to live like this anymore.


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

Guys...I am busted. I just checked Icloud to monitor the iphone and the password was changes and the phone is offline. He must have checked his iphone. What should I do if he confronts me?


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

cramdas said:


> Guys...I am busted. I just checked Icloud to monitor the iphone and the password was changes and the phone is offline. He must have checked his iphone. What should I do if he confronts me?


Tell him (if you haven't already) that you know he's continuing to lie to you, and that now he's meeting her in her car instead of in his truck.

When he says that you are "driving" him toward her because of your lack of trust, tell him no, that is just him covering his butt; it happened the other way around. He is insisting on having a relationship with her, he lied to you, and he has done _nothing_ but threaten you with abandonment, which is no way to rebuild your trust in him.

Tell him also that the fact that he won't meet with the counselor alone tells you that he cannnot bear to tell the truth to anyone, even a stranger. That he is ashamed enough of what he's doing to his baby boy and to you that he cannot stand to even discuss it.

Show him the *Policy of Radical Honesty* and explain to him how it works. That he is the one checking out of the marriage, not you. He is the one who is being lying and deceitful; you are just doing what it takes to live up to your wedding vows. You promised to be faithful until death--and that is all that you are doing. That is all that any of this is about.

Tell him that as long as he stays in contact with her, he is refusing to give your marriage a real chance.


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

cramdas said:


> He said she does not want to get involved...I don't want to contact her. I think since he has made up his mind to leave I have to be strong to say please go....
> 
> Now I have to take care of my son. My parents will help me.


She does not want to get involved:scratchhead:

I would say to her sorry ***** but you are already involved...I don't know I would be calling her out too...showing up on her doorstep or at her work place. She lost out on her privacy by carrying on with a married man...


----------



## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

cramdas said:


> So I also have the find iphone app on his cell phone and saw that he wasn’t at work so I called him. Apparently they are now using her vehicle since he is paranoid that I am still bugging his truck. He said he is on site at work at I should come see. Obviously if I go I will see his truck there. Last night he got upset that I was paranoid that he wasn’t at work when he did told me that he was. I said why is your work phone forwarded to your cell and you were not in your office. He has so many excuses coming out his ass it is unbelievable.
> 
> He said he wants to separate; that he cannot live with a psycho ***** anymore. He does not want to see the counselor alone so we are coming together this afternoon. He said he will tell the counselor the same things he is telling me (lies). I told him if he wants to leave to pack his stuff when I am not there because it is so hard for me to watch him leave. Guys, I am so weak. I hear everything you are saying and I know this is the only way to save what’s left of this marriage. I feel like the husband I knew died and I am mourning him. Please help me stay strong to watch him go……


 
Now you are REQUIRING him to change and you're asking questions and he has a problem with you using common sense and seeing his behavior is not adding up to what he said. 
He is seriously trying to run you crazy and shut you up so he can continue to have you at home not questioning him and just dealing with it or "trusting" that he is doing what he tells you he is doing while he benefits during work hours and feel safe going home knowing he has his wife there.


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

cramdas said:


> Guys...I am busted. I just checked Icloud to monitor the iphone and the password was changes and the phone is offline. He must have checked his iphone. What should I do if he confronts me?


YOur different than me..my atittude would be bring it on buddy come over and confront me. 

You have nothing to be ashamed or feel guilty about..he is the one that should be living in fear of a confrontation...please stop protecting this guy out of fear..he does not deserve it.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

highwood said:


> YOur different than me..my atittude would be bring it on buddy come over and confront me.
> 
> You have nothing to be ashamed or feel guilty about..he is the one that should be living in fear of a confrontation...please stop protecting this guy out of fear..he does not deserve it.


I agree that she should not be afraid, per se, but she does have a baby just a few weeks old. I am concerned that he will do something off the wall, like abscond with all their money. I would rather she focus her attention on protecting her finances. If she needs to avoid confronting him, and to placate him, for some period of time in order to be prepared for abandonment (or affirmatively leave) then she should turn her attention to that.


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

So he just called me and did not acknowlege the email I sent nor asked about the iphone app. We were supose to go pick up his mom after our appt. to babysit for the rest of the week and he said let's ask mom to take the train up instead of going to pick her up. so I said why don't you go to the appt alone and I will go pick mom up and he agreed.

He was very calm and collective.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Have you thought about what you will tell his mom? Has she been supportive and friendly to you during the marriage?


----------



## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Do a little reading here about what a remorseful cheater looks like - it's not what your H currently looks like.
> 
> A genuinely remorseful cheater will recognize that the betrayed spouse desperately needs to talk about it - for multiple reasons. The BS needs to see the cheater take ownership and accept accountability for what they have done. The BS needs to hear the answers to the same questions over and over and over to begin to build any faith that they are getting the truth. The BS needs to hear the cheater talk about to see that they are willing to put their own pain and discomfort in discussing it aside in order to work on repairing the damage they have inflicted.
> 
> ...


Cramdas:

I agree with all of Sigma's posts. 

Also, your spouse is lying to you or in total denial, if he says he had no emotional attachment. In an affair with one person There is always an emotional investment and attachment, versus a different prostitute each time you go to one or a one night stand.

Also, it is very very very rare for a man to have only an emotional affair, so please don't buy that one. Most men either had sex with the AP and are lying about it, or they were PLANNING TO HAVE SEX, the conversations were just the romancing phase of the affair. 

Your spouse is not "getting it", if he does not get it, your reconciliation may not go well. 

He needs counseling. He can go alone, if he prefers, but he needs a good infidelity counselor to show and tell him what he is doing wrong. People can never shine a light on their own blind spots and faults. We all need an impartial outside observer.

Also, find out the counselors background, a counselor who had an affair needs to divulge that. Better yet, they should recuse themselves and refer people to a counselor familiar with infidelity who is or had until death a successful marriage. 

A counselor who has never married will not understand the issues properly, and a counselor who had an affair may not be able to remain impartial.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Unfortunately, they have met with a counselor, and the counselor does seem to understand the situation to some decent extent. That person has actually asked her husband to meet with them alone, probably because the counselor intends to confront the husband over his selfish behavior. The counselor probably also wants to divine the husband's intent.

Sadly, her husband has already said he will not meet with the counselor alone.

He is basically making more efforts to cover up his tracks and take the affair underground. Counseling will have little to no effect while he remains in contact with his AP, and he is channeling his energy into solidfying his relationship with his AP.


----------



## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Unfortunately, they have met with a counselor, and the counselor does seem to understand the situation to some decent extent. That person has actually asked her husband to meet with them alone, probably because the counselor intends to confront the husband over his selfish behavior. The counselor probably also wants to divine the husband's intent.
> 
> Sadly, her husband has already said he will not meet with the counselor alone.
> 
> He is basically making more efforts to cover up his tracks and take the affair underground. Counseling will have little to no effect while he remains in contact with his AP, and he is channeling his energy into solidfying his relationship with his AP.


Thank you, Iheart, for the update, I did not have time to read every post. 

You are absolutely right. After reading a number of posts, it does seem the affair has gone underground, and yes it must end for a real reconciliation. 

She needs to continue to gather evidence. You are also right about the need to protect herself and lawyer up immediately. 

Some cheaters are so remorseful that they give the spouse more than half or more than asked for, but some are mean and deceptive during the divorce.


----------



## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

cramdas said:


> So he just called me and did not acknowlege the email I sent nor asked about the iphone app. We were supose to go pick up his mom after our appt. to babysit for the rest of the week and he said let's ask mom to take the train up instead of going to pick her up. so I said why don't you go to the appt alone and I will go pick mom up and he agreed.
> 
> He was very calm and collective.


Cramdas, you need to lawyer up immediately. You have the proof they are still meeting. 

You need to expose this women to her family, his family, her priest or rabbi, work (most companies frown on affairs and if it's taking place during work hours that is even worse)

A lawyer can freeze your assets so he can't transfer them to the AP. Also it's customary in these cases for the cheater to move out of the marital home.


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

Everyone in the family knows the situation and everyone is on my side. He does not want to listen to anything his mom says so she does not speak to him about the affair. Our family and friends know about the affair. He has not met witht he counselor as yet. He is meeting with him this afternoon. I met once with the counselor and we have an appt to meet together with the counselor on Thurs. The counselor basically wants to bring him in to make him feel comfortable and also to hear his version.


----------



## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

cramdas said:


> Everyone in the family knows the situation and everyone is on my side. He does not want to listen to anything his mom says so she does not speak to him about the affair. Our family and friends know about the affair. He has not met witht he counselor as yet. He is meeting with him this afternoon. I met once with the counselor and we have an appt to meet together with the counselor on Thurs. The counselor basically wants to bring him in to make him feel comfortable and also to hear his version.


Well, that's good new. Best of luck.

It's still a good idea to have a consult with an attorney.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

cramdas said:


> *Everyone in the family knows the situation and everyone is on my side.*


Great! So glad to hear this. You would be surprised how few people have the bravery to do this.



> He has not met witht he counselor as yet. He is meeting with him this afternoon. I met once with the counselor and we have an appt to meet together with the counselor on Thurs.


 So he changed his mind? I'm glad he did. I don't think the counselor will have much affect, but this is better than not meeting with the counselor at all.

In the meantime:

--do whatever you need to secure your legal situation and finances

--start educating yourself about infidelity as much as possible. The book Not Just Friends will provide a lot of insight. I would ask the counselor if they are familiar with the book. It was written by Shirley Glass, a nationally recognized researcher on infidelity (the New York Times called her the "godmother" of infidelity research).

One of the key ideas that Glass learned in her research is that in some cases, some cheaters cheat even though you are doing everything right and the marriage is in a good place. Again, there are probably some things you can improve (there always are), but Glass noted that in particularly narcissistic cheaters, they will find endless fault with their spouse, but are incapable of introspection--they are unable to admit that the affair was caused by their own selfish choices. Other people are very unhappy with (even hate) themselves and require a lot of attention and validation from other people. They wil seek this out even if their spouse is a good spouse, because one person can't fill up their emptiness inside.

Out of curiousity--would you say your husband fits either one of these "types?" Does he seem to be particularly selfish, and lack empathy, in general? Does he externalize fault (say, always blame the traffic because he's late--instead of admitting at least now and then that he doesn't leave early enough to be on time)? Does he seem to have a suprior view of himself?

Or, on the other hand, does he seem to hate himself in some ways? Has he ever said you are too good for him, or words to that effect? Does he have any history of seeking out attention from other women, not just you?


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

He does always put the blame on others and I think since he started this job and saw the "perks" of being in a managerial position this has boost his self confidence. He tells me that other women at work has thrown themselves at him and he has not responded.....if he was a cheater he would. This was before the affair was revealed and it was only revealed because I confronted him with evidence.

He also likes when someone looks up to him and she does praise him. He said to me one day that we are not on the same intelligent level (but we both have a bachelors degree) hello???? 

Yes, he does find all the faults in me right now....


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

If you don't mind my asking--how old is he, and how old are you?



cramdas said:


> He does always put the blame on others and I think since he started this job and saw the "perks" of being in a managerial position this has boost his self confidence. He tells me that other women at work has thrown themselves at him and he has not responded.....if he was a cheater he would. This was before the affair was revealed and it was only revealed because I confronted him with evidence.
> 
> He also likes when someone looks up to him and she does praise him. He said to me one day that we are not on the same intelligent level (but we both have a bachelors degree) hello????
> 
> Yes, he does find all the faults in me right now....


Some of this could be due to the innate selfishness of being in an affair; affairs are very selfish, and they can exaggerate and enhance selfishness in a disloyal spouse. 

On the other hand, some people have a certain amount of self-importance that they always have had, even before they decided to cheat. These people have narcissistic tendencies (and some are even outright narcissists, as diagnosed by a therapist).

Narcissists act very entitled--the regular rules of world don't apply to them. You know, things like marriage vows. That isn't to say that all, or even most, cheaters are narcissists. This is just the narcissist's mental view of cheating. (Other disloyal spouses use other types of mental gymnastics to justify cheating.)

Reading between the lines, he sounds like he feels entitled to "upgrade" his spouse, that is, he has put you down, and in a box. Obviously, he was attracted to you before and married you for a reason, so this is just a way for him to allow himself to "date" another woman; that is, he is re-writing marital history to minimize your excellent qualities and maximize your faults.

I will tell you, if this is indeed his problem--narcissistic people are tough nuts to crack. They don't feel any particular need to change at all--why mess with perfection? They tend to think that therapy is a joke. I am hoping for you, that if you want to reconcile, that we are only dealing with an over-inflated ego brought on by some female attention; maybe he didn't get very much before now and it's gone to his head. (Of course, men and women alike kiss up to managers--it isn't because the manager is such a terrific person--it's because they want to keep their jobs.)

But his bullying tendencies are downright creepy, and I don't see that going away, even if he drops this woman like a hot potato.


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I am not surprised he didn't call you out on the iPhone app or the email. I'm not surprised he was cool and collected. He is a coward and that is what they do....avoid. He didn't call you on it because that would mean confronting what he has done and caused. And as you say, he doesn't talk. He avoids.

Glad to hear you are seeming stronger and that his behaviour is becoming more transparent to you. He doesn't deserve pleasant...he deserves the hole that he has dug for himself, filled with dirt, and continuing to stand in it.

Oh this man makes me sick. You have just had his child! There is nothing more selfish, more mean, more disrespectful and disgraceful than what he has done. This is a time of need for you, support, love, care, he should be looking after you and his baby. And instead he has shat on you from a great height. And continues to defend his disgraceful behaviour by attacking you! I struggle to find the words that fully describe him and what he has done. He is scum. He deserves nothing from you, he deserves his pathetic life alone.


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Rant over, keep up the good work. And never ever reveal the sources of your information...as you have seen it causes him to work around it e.g. the bugging of his truck. Now he is working around that.


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

He said the session with the counselor is a waste of time that he cannot solve our problem. He does not want to continue going as a couple so I told him fine I will continue therapy because it is helping me. 

I asked about the email I sent earlier about him leaving if he wants to separate, he said he does not have to respond to every email I send him. He does makes me sick too. I told him to leave and go sort out hat he needs to sort out. He said if he does he is not turning back and I said fine. He wants to move forward but is not doing what he needs to and he is not getting it.


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

My plan now is to get physical evidence that it is continuing> I cannot accuse him if I don't have anything and what if he is telling the truth?

Now, I am spending all my free time with my baby and living as roommates. NO SEX!!!! I am calm and collective and working on myself. I am working out at the gym and looking beautiful as ever, it makes me happy with myself. I need to love me; I haven't focus on myself for 14 years. It was all about pleasing him. 

I never had girlfriends now I am reaching out to other supportive women and spending time with them. Last Saturday my gf and I went to a movies and dinner and had such a great time. It's all about me and my son now.

By the way, I just turn 38 and he is 45 yrs old. Someone asked previously.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

cramdas:

just realize that at some point you don't need physical evidence.

Because in addition to the fact that you KNOW he has been behaving inappropriately, you have several pieces of hard evidence that he's working to "take it underground," i.e., hide it from you.

You also aren't seeing any remorse--you've given us absolutely no indication that he thinks he's done anything wrong.

Let's say for the sake of argument that it's truly over. What's to prevent him from starting up again in a week or two because he's "bored" or whatever awful excuse he's using?

No one can ever keep their spouse from cheating--we do not control them. But we can have certain expectations--that they will show that they KNOW they've hurt us, that what they did was very WRONG, and that they are working to change whatever led them down that selfish path. You would still need to verify that he wasn't in contact, but at least you would see him taking steps toward making it up to you.

If you must get more evidence, then go ahead and do it. Just realize at some point you are chasing the wind, because someone who doesn't even PRETEND to be sorry for what he's done is most certainly NOT sorry.

Last thing--there are posters on this board who had videotape evidence. Others had audio of sex. Still others had photographs of kissing and meeting in public after no contact was promised, etc. And in each of those cases, the cheater actually had the nerve to tell the loyal spouse that the evidence was doctored, faked, or vastly misunderstood. So just know again that collecting evidence is MOSTLY about YOU getting the truth. The cheater knows what they did--that doesn't mean they ever have to admit it to you.


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

So why is he so desperate to keep contact with this person then if he is telling the truth? To me it is just a matter of time if he keeps having contact with her that it will escalate again.


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

He said the relationship started out as friendship two years ago ago and the "crossed" the line 3 months ago. I do not believe it but I have no proof. My take is because he got caught he lied and said it started after the baby was born. I don't know if this is true or not.

So the need to stay in contact is to "let it die" without any drama in the mean time I have to endure all the pain and be patient.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

cramdas said:


> Now, I am spending all my free time with my baby and living as roommates. NO SEX!!!! I am calm and collective and working on myself. I am working out at the gym and looking beautiful as ever, it makes me happy with myself. I need to love me; I haven't focus on myself for 14 years. It was all about pleasing him.
> 
> I never had girlfriends now I am reaching out to other supportive women and spending time with them. Last Saturday my gf and I went to a movies and dinner and had such a great time. It's all about me and my son now.


This is great! Get yourself strong and confident. Start making your day about you and your baby & not letting his stuff direct your every thought. 180 to help you.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

cramdas said:


> He said the relationship started out as friendship two years ago ago and the "crossed" the line 3 months ago. I do not believe it but I have no proof. My take is because he got caught he lied and said it started after the baby was born. I don't know if this is true or not.
> 
> So the need to stay in contact is to "let it die" without any drama in the mean time I have to endure all the pain and be patient.


Think about the men in your life that you were sexually attracted to.

Maybe they weren't boyfriend or husband material.

But did that sexual attraction just "die"?

Sexual attraction never dies, unless someone does something truly repulsive (or changes so much they don't resemble the person you were drawn to). And sexual attraction plus emotional compatibility?

This is called INFATUATION

Remember the butterflies at the start of a relationship? That's him with her, 24 / 7. It ISN'T "love" it's a biological trick to perpetuate the species. It is a powerful fantasy elixir. The point is, he doesn't want to get cut off from his supply. Now he's testing you to see how little you know about cheating--will you believe him that he can be "just friends" with someone he's infatuated with? Only if you're as gullible as he thinks you are.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

cramdas said:


> So the need to stay in contact is to "let it die" without any drama


This is such utter rubbish on his part!!!

I'm sorry to say I did almost this very same thing to my wife. I was convinced that I need to reestablish contact to help my AP heal (she was devastated when the EA blew up). I was convinced that if I could know she was ok, and if we could have a "good" goodbye that I would be better and be able to move on.

BLAH!!!!!!!

I hate myself for even thinking that!!!! WTF was I thinking!?!? I remember watching my wife read the days emails between my AP and me every night and seeing how much it hurt her. I'm amazed my wife put up with it and with me - I was such an idiot!! 

A "good" goodbye isn't possible. Affairs only end one way - badly. Closure is a myth. You know what closure on an affair is? Slam the fvcking door and throw away the damn key!!! That's closure!! All this need to end it without "drama" or "let it die" is a complete load of crap. It is simply a way for him to try to maintain some emotional connection to her that you'll tolerate, and that's all it is, regardless of what he's convinced himself of. 

Sorry - rant off.


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

Sigma

Thank you for your response. I wish I was on this forum 4 months ago when I was blaming myself and believing him. Gosh, I am so naive. Now, he is saying it is completely over and there is no "friendship" but last week they were in his truck talking. I cannot reveal this yet to him until I have more proof. Yes, I know I am too nice but in the mean time I am working on plan B. It is not easy to kick him out when we have a baby and I am not financially able to manage on my own. 

I am working on myself now, my life, furthering my education and being able to provide for my child.


----------



## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

Right now you are doing this gathering of information out if hope. Hoping you have it wrong. Telling yourself how you don't want to make a horrible mistake. What if it's not as bad as I thought? What if it really is over? Maybe they are just friends and won't continue their affair? We all have been there. At least I have. 

But what almost all of us realize over time, is that it's like the lotto. There is always a chance of winning. Although you could say with certainty that you didn't win even without ever checking the numbers. But as long as you don't check, there is a small chance. And that is where you are, I think. Hoping against hope. 

I still hope for my wife to begin turning things around. To show me how she is changed. I "know" she won't, but I hope she does. I am at peace with that. It's a choice I make so I won't beat myself up about it later. 

So collect as much as you need. When you feel ready you will check that lotto ticket. I truly hope it's a winner. Stay strong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

cramdas said:


> I wish I was on this forum 4 months ago when I was blaming myself and believing him. Gosh, I am so naive.


You know what, it is what it is. Hey, if you had already busted the affair and reconciled--or else divorced--you wouldn't need the forum at all.

Everyone has an idea of what infidelity is, and how they'll react, BEFORE it happens. The reality is often rather different and in many ways, counterintuitive.

Guess what? There are plenty of people who come to the forum before it's reached the stage that your husband is in now. And all that seems to accomplish is a lot of denying that anything inappropriate was going on. Elly73, for example, has an enormously long thread with everyone and his sixth cousin once removed joining in to debate whether he's done anything bad and whether she's handling it right.

So, no time for hand-wringing. He lied to himself to get where he is, and then he started lying to you. You married him based on the premise that he wouldn't ever lie to you, especially about something so serious. You can hardly be faulted for that.


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

You are all right! Recorded them in the truck having SEX. I am hating myself right now. I need the strenght to move on. I have to make a decision ....he left the house Friday night and return Sunday. Had my parents over to discuss....said because i keep nagging him I pushed him to the OW. I agreed to stop all suvellience and he agree to end the affair. I know it is all bullsh***; I am scared to leave. I've started the process of going back to school to complete my MBA. I am giving him a few weeks to see if there are any changes in his ways....I know I can tell if he is making an effort. 

Guys....please don't hate me for making this decision. I have a 4 month old child and I cannot afford to move out on my own right now.


----------



## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Your parents said that to you?


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

No my parents wants me to leave him and move in with them and give him some breathing space....everything that is said above is his words. He is still calling the shots!


----------



## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

cramdas said:


> No my parents wants me to leave him and move in with them and give him some breathing space....everything that is said above is his words. He is still calling the shots!


phew.....omg that would have been awfull if it was your parents said that. Of course he is going to put the blame of his actions onto you, that way he doesn't have to look at himself. Imo you may want to consider taking up your parents offer it will help you detach yourself from him and the situation (kinda hard to to do when your still in the middle of it) and also take some of the power away from him. 
Also keep the recording of them having sex and put it somewhere safe (maybe your parents?) it could become one day become usefull.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

cramdas said:


> I agreed to stop all suvellience and he agree to end the affair.


All this is doing is giving him permission to keep cheating.

Why won't you take your parents up on their offer?


----------



## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

I personally think some IC for codependency may be a great help to you (there is also a great deal of good books for codependency).

P.s no one here wants to or will hate or judge you for whatever choice you decide/want to make, the forum is about helping people and supporting them.


----------



## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

cramdas said:


> You are all right! Recorded them in the truck having SEX. I am hating myself right now. I need the strenght to move on. I have to make a decision ....he left the house Friday night and return Sunday. Had my parents over to discuss....said because i keep nagging him I pushed him to the OW. I agreed to stop all suvellience and he agree to end the affair. I know it is all bullsh***; I am scared to leave. I've started the process of going back to school to complete my MBA. I am giving him a few weeks to see if there are any changes in his ways....I know I can tell if he is making an effort.
> 
> Guys....please don't hate me for making this decision. I have a 4 month old child and I cannot afford to move out on my own right now.


OMG! Cramdas, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE have the balls to do what I didn't do...which is leave him NOW! 

My guys cheated while I was pregnant, attempted to cheat over and over again right through my pregnancy. To this day, he tries to rug sweep, telling me to get over it. He'll leave if I don't drop it. It is over now, but I wasted a year 1/2 believing his bullsh**! YOU DON'T NEED HIM. Go to your parents. You listened to him having sex with another woman. Do you really want to be the consollation prize to THAT PIECE OF CRAP????? 

You are NOTHING to him. It f*cking sucks to hear that, but it is true. Blow them out of the water. Call her out for being a wh**e, let their boss's know. EXPOSE and LEAVE.


----------



## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

cramdas said:


> You are all right! Recorded them in the truck having SEX. I am hating myself right now. I need the strenght to move on. I have to make a decision ....he left the house Friday night and return Sunday. Had my parents over to discuss....said because i keep nagging him I pushed him to the OW. I agreed to stop all suvellience and he agree to end the affair. I know it is all bullsh***; I am scared to leave. I've started the process of going back to school to complete my MBA. I am giving him a few weeks to see if there are any changes in his ways....I know I can tell if he is making an effort.
> 
> Guys....please don't hate me for making this decision. I have a 4 month old child and I cannot afford to move out on my own right now.


 
I'm sorry that this happen to you but why spy to confirm what you just couldnt prove (that u can now prove) only to stay with someone who will not and does not plan to stop doing what he wants to do. He is calling the shots yes. He has his wife at home knowing he is doing the most intimate thing a husband can do with a wife *but he chooses to do it in a truck with a co-worker. *For month old or not, you need to get strong and do what will benefit you. I pray that GOD gives you the strength to know that your life can actually begin when you leave this dabilitating situation. He is not being held accountable instead he is running mind games trying to make you think you're losing your mind while he leaves you to go give co-worker truck sex.


----------



## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

You need to pack up and go to parents house. Once you know what you're dealing with and married to, it is up to you to do something about it. Some people just dont need to be married because they want everyone to think their intutions are way off while they engage in selfish, narcissistic behaviors that don't make them feel guilt or shame. They just keep finding ways to justify their reason to lay up with other women.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

The man has broken your heart, but you're not ready to let go. That's nothing to be ashamed of. You need time to process.

I hope while you process that the value you place on yourself grows. You really are worth more than this. You and your baby deserve so much more. Your husband doesn't care about your feelings anymore. That's really your job now.

Why not go to your parents and regroup?


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Please, run. Staying is not only bad for you short time but you are teaching him. You are getting a good picture of future. What it takes to keep f0cking OW after being busted while having a newborn at home is an infixable character flaw. No hope.


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I said it before....do not stop all surveillance..if he has a problem with you still checking up on him then he has something to hide. As for your parents putting the blame on you..shame on them...


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

Let me clarify....he left the house Friday night and returned Sunday ...called my parents home and spoke with my dad (I was there with my baby). Said to my dad to home over to our house to talk. He basically told my parents that he had form a 2 1/2 years relationship with OW and would put an end to the affair if I agree to:

1. Stop all suvellience
2. Stop nagging him and calling him being all paranoid
3. Take care of my home (he thinks I am lazy)

My parents told me to leave him....they suggested a mutual separation, give eachother a breathing space. My parents would do anything for me and my child. I am the one that is still there and choose to be with this psycopath.

I need strenght and courage to walk away....I am afraid.


----------



## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

Your strength is Packin up
Your courage is Going to your parents home. 

You stay there and he will still do co worker in truck. Going to your parents is a sign that you are serious about him changing or keeping his word to end it since you dont feel like you will leave him. 

Are you afriad to leave thinking the other lady will take your place? I'm trying to understand... because you shouldnt be afraid. You should feel violated and know you deserve more.


----------



## Love2326 (Oct 31, 2012)

Cramdas, sounds like you are a serious softie. You need to find yourself again and get your act together. You're in the thickest part of the fog and you NEED to get out. Your H is definitely not remorseful. 

Figure out what you're worth. If its nothing, then stay with him and live a miserable life. If you're worth even an ounce, kick him out, separate, and let him feel the pain that he put you through. Let him stand in the doorway of divorce for awhile. Better to make him face the door now than be back in the same position in a year or two.

Check out this book: Love Must Be Tough, by Dr. James Dobson. http://www.amazon.com/Love-Must-Be-...352&sr=8-1&keywords=dobson+love+must+be+tough Unless you're tough now, he will do it again. Lay down the law so he knows your boundaries and what you will tolerate and what you won't tolerate. Have some self-respect, woman! This behavior is UNACCEPTABLE! He should be BEGGING you to take him back! He should be willing to do whatever it takes to make the marriage work! He is in NO position to be giving you "groundrules"! Gimme a break! Don't be afraid to take the scary road, it will lead you to a better place!


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I am sorry but who the effing FRACK does he think HE is, giving YOU demands when he's the lying cheating scumbag?!?!?!?!

OMG he is a jerk. I am really PO'd right now on your behalf.

I really wish you'd get PO'd too. I know you're scared. Just take a few deep breaths and DO it. Go to your parents. Get away from this toxic, horrible person. Give yourself at least a month to clear your head of his fumes. DON'T go back to him. Your parents are there for you - rely on them, they love you and want what's best for you, which is to get this guy OUT of your life. Now.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

And just what do you think he was doing from Friday till Sunday??


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> I am sorry but who the effing FRACK does he think HE is, giving YOU demands when he's the lying cheating scumbag?!?!?!?!


^^^^ a million times, this. God in Heaven. "I've been screwing another woman for 2 1/2 years, but I'll stop if you stop checking up on me and nagging me."

Are you kidding?

Your parents should kidnap you and keep you with them until you come to your senses and leave this person who does not care AT ALL about you.


----------



## ItsGonnabeAlright (Nov 19, 2012)

He can quit his job all he wants, and you can forgive him all you want, but the heart of the problem is that he cheated. He willingly, and purposely deceived you without a second thought. Now he wants what he had before, a loving partner, trust, clean laundry, etc. He wants you to erase his mistakes. Well, it doesn't work that way. Your decision is going to set the tone for the rest of your days together. Can he cheat on you and get away with it, or not? Do you want to be with someone who can no longer talk in private, or come home after drinking with workfriends, etc. a lot of things are going to change from now on.


----------



## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

She's afraid if she takes a stand and goes to her parents to prove to him she is strong and wont accept his behavior that he will leave her or be pushed to the OW, the truth is that he is going to do it anyway, whether you stay or go. The only reason he wants you to stop surveillance is so that you wont keep busting him. F that, if he has nothing to hide and cares about you he would want you to know that he is done with OW and will do anything to prove it to you.

I will pray God gives you the strength to leave because above all else thats what you need!


----------



## cramdas (Nov 21, 2012)

Over the past thre days we talked at lenght. He said on Sunday after he spoke to me on the phone....him and the OW came to a mutual decision to end the affair. Now, he is showing remorse, said I can bug all I want, ask all the questions, he wants to be transparent and work on the marriage. He wants to have more discussions with my parents instead of counseling. I've noticed a significant change in his behavior. I am still keeping my guard up and have have resume bugging also, I am looking into the spyware on his cell phone. I have limited access to his phone but will jailbreak and install Hellospy.


----------



## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

cramdas said:


> Over the past thre days we talked at lenght. He said on Sunday after he spoke to me on the phone....him and the OW came to a mutual decision to end the affair. Now, he is showing remorse, said I can bug all I want, ask all the questions, he wants to be transparent and work on the marriage. He wants to have more discussions with my parents instead of counseling. I've noticed a significant change in his behavior. I am still keeping my guard up and have have resume bugging also, I am looking into the spyware on his cell phone. I have limited access to his phone but will jailbreak and install Hellospy.


You're just rationalizing it. This guy is not reformed, if he was you wouldn't have to jailbreak his phone.

Move in with your parents, they have the right idea. Don't be one of those women who stays with a no-good man for their entire life out of fear. You have support, use it.


----------



## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

cramdas said:


> he is showing remorse, said I can bug all I want, ask all the questions, he wants to be transparent and work on the marriage.





cramdas said:


> I have limited access to his phone but will jailbreak and install Hellospy.


Him "showing remorse and wanting to be transparent and working on the marriage" is in direct contradiction to you having "limited access to his phone and needing to jailbreak it with spyware".

I get that you're in a state of turmoil and crisis but can't you see this?


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

What about his OW..I would be showing up on her fricken doorstep as well....or does she still want to stay out of it...awwwww what a great person...I will sleep with your husband but I want to stay out of all the drama...


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It's very possible that he's just taking it further underground. He thinks he knows how you will spy & he's covered those bases so you won't find anything there. If you are intent on staying with him, you should get a PI or insist on regular polygraphs.

Better to just cut your losses, though, I think.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

COguy said:


> Move in with your parents, they have the right idea. Don't be one of those women who stays with a no-good man for their entire life out of fear. You have support, use it.


Words of wisdom.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Dammit dammit dammit. I hate when this happens. It's like having one of those dreams where you are trying to get somewhere and every step you take you get farther and farther away. The sense of impending doom is the same.

cramdas, PLEASE listen. He isn't remorseful. He KNOWS he has you by the shorties, and he's just making sure to back off enough that you'll let him keep them in reach till the next time he wants to grab them and yank them till you howl. THIS GUY IS A SCUMBAG. He is completely hoodwinking you. He has NO intentions of stopping anything. ALL HE IS DOING IS TALKING. Words that mean NOTHING. You KNOW this about him.

Sigh. I can't watch this any more. I've already seen it way too many times. Good luck to you, and if you ever decide that you've had enough PM me. I honestly want to help you, but until you open your damn eyes and get away from this guy, I am done.


----------



## Yessongs72 (Dec 6, 2012)

"THIS GUY IS A SCUMBAG"

i think thats unfair on scumbags everywhere.

in the words of John McEnroe, this guy is 'the pits'. Please cramdas listen to everyone here screaming at you, and leave this piece of utter, steaming sh1t.


----------



## SandyD (Nov 18, 2012)

Hi sweetie... I'd like to give my two cents, maybe they'll help. 

Here's the thing... You have, for the very first time in your life, been exposed to the deceptive/ugly side of human nature. To make it worse, this ain't no movie, it's real life and the person who is teaching you these horrible lessons is someone who you thought loved you and would never do such a thing. It all feels a little too unreal. And even though you have all these people telling you like it is, it's only the Internet and these people don't really know you or your husband. Except they do, better than you think. These kinds of tricks are as old as... well.. mankind itself.

But no one prepares you for this. Society doesn't talk openly about this, so we never learn how other people deal with it, we never learn how cheaters operate. It's too bad because infidelity is a tragedy comparable to the death of a loved one. The pain and shock you feel are soul disfiguring. The decisions this forces you to make are life altering. And you know what the suckiest part is? You never asked for this. You didn't do anything wrong. But now YOU'RE the one who is going to have to change your life and be uncomfortable and afraid. It's unfair, isn't it?

You are going through some very traumatizing times. The way you deal with things now will have a real impact on your tomorrow. 

I would listen to the advice these people are so kindly giving you. It's gut-wrenching to harbor all these hopes and still press forward as if you didn't. You want to understand, you want to go back in time, but you have to realize there is nothing to understand where you are right now. Your marriage as you know it is forever changed. You didn't ask for this, you didn't do this, but here you are.

If this was me (and wait, it is!! I am pregnant with #2 and also have a cheating husband who is showing no true remorse, at least not the kind I can feel), I would go strict no contact for a while. Block his numbers and his email, enlist the help of friends and family to help you with this (especially if he will be visiting your children). Just shut him out from your life temporarily. You need this time for yourself, you need distance so you can see more clearly. Yes, you'll be in pain, but he doesn't need to see or know this. Grieve. Continue seeing your counselor.

I, for one, do not entertain reconciliation because my husband has a pattern of repeated deceptions and psychologically abusive behavior. I went no contact some time after separation because he was taking advantage of my niceness and making me feel even worse all the while proclaiming he loved me and wanted to be together. He changed all his passwords, told our therapist and friends I had paranoid personality disorder and even asked me to pay him back for the gas that was left in the car the day he left... this is how much caring and empathy he had for the mother of his children whom he so loves. And this was after he confessed to cheating. I now have an STD to show for it.

And you know the worst part? My STBX was the ultimate nice guy. No one saw this coming. And some still didn't believe it until he confirmed.

Some people just aren't safe, no matter how nice they appear.


----------



## hellokitty48 (Jun 9, 2013)

he has lot of nerves .. you keep talking about as long you need to he dont understand it didnt happen to him .. and lawd if it did trust me he would be asking for major details everyday.. men have big problem when they have been cheated on..It really hurts there EGO. To be honest if he keeps acting like its no big thing i would move out.. thats not fair to you he needs to deal with the aftermath of the affair.. 

Of course the trust is gone are you kidding me.. i am dealing with that myself my husband cheating was online texting, emails. it may have not been physical but it stills hurts the same the women is married she told my husband she loved him and his response was ME TOO.. I ASK HIM TO MOVE OUT becasue he said he was going to stop talking to her and of course he lied.. Do i trust him Heck no.. Trust is hard to get back ..


----------

