# Can I write here if I'm the cheater?



## st232

Hi.

I don't want to say this...  I cheated on my husband. I hate saying that. I hate myself for doing it. I can't eat or sleep or stop crying or stop dry puking. I haven't told my husband yet and I don't how I'm going to do it. I know I have to tell him because he deserves to know. I don't want to lose my husband but I deserve it if I do. I hate how much I hurt him. I know what it feels like to be cheated on and I didn't think I would ever do that to someone. I wish this was a bad dream that I would wake up from. I don't know how to tell him and what to do for him  I don't know how I'm going to stop crying long enough to get the words out. 

Am I allowed to be here? I just don't know what to do


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Of course you are allowed to be here. I will warn you, some posters do not take kindly to cheaters. What happened? Why did you do it?


----------



## BioFury

st232 said:


> Hi.
> 
> I don't want to say this...  I cheated on my husband. I hate saying that. I hate myself for doing it. I can't eat or sleep or stop crying or stop dry puking. I haven't told my husband yet and I don't how I'm going to do it. I know I have to tell him because he deserves to know. I don't want to lose my husband but I deserve it if I do. I hate how much I hurt him. I know what it feels like to be cheated on and I didn't think I would ever do that to someone. I wish this was a bad dream that I would wake up from. I don't know how to tell him and what to do for him  I don't know how I'm going to stop crying long enough to get the words out.
> 
> Am I allowed to be here? I just don't know what to do


You're likely to receive some stern words, so brace thyself. But yes, you're welcome. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Cletus

Most here are not going to care a whit about your feelings, since you are not the victim here. You've earned some abuse, and you'd best be prepared to take it or your time here will be short. Grab onto something. 

But you may also find help in moving forward from the perspective of others who have gone before you. For now, understand that most of us will want to hear what you are doing to be honest and transparent with your husband. Step 1 is always admitting that you have a problem.


----------



## Deejo

The short answer is Yes.

You are absolutely allowed to be here.

You will likely receive a fair bit of criticism, but that shouldn't come as a surprise. Cruelty or harassment however, is another thing altogether. Should that occur you PM a moderator, or use the report function. It appears as a gray yield sign below a posters name.

History with your husband provides context. But more importantly your intention to inform your husband and give him agency about what direction the relationship takes from here is what matters. 

What choice would you make about your marriage if you knew your husband had, or was actively cheating on you?

As I like to say about these unfortunate circumstances. Hope for the best. Be prepared for the worst.

Welcome to TAM.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Everyday you don't tell him is another day you are cheating on him. Tell him and respect whatever decision he makes.


----------



## Spicy

If you can type and follow the forum rules, you can post here.

Since you have cheated, I recommend you be honest and detailed on here, and if you are truly remorseful, you are likely to get some good help. Let me ask a few more questions to get this started. The more you participate, the more help you will receive. 

Please tell us more about how you ended up in this terrible situation?
How old are you and your husband?
Do you have minor children at home?
Was it a ONS (one night stand) or an affair?
Does your husband know the person you cheated with?
Have you ever cheated on him before?
Has he ever been cheated on before?
Is it over?

Welcome to TAM. I hope we can help you.


----------



## Deejo

Information about the history of the relationship with your husband, and an acknowledgment of your understanding how and/or why the affair started, and how long it lasted are standard information.

Once again, if you get anyone here asking you about gory intimate details regarding the nature and extent of the affair, those things are explicitly against the forum guidelines.

There can be a lot of projection around here. But there is a good amount of wisdom as well.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

st232 said:


> Hi.
> 
> I don't want to say this...  I cheated on my husband. I hate saying that. I hate myself for doing it. I can't eat or sleep or stop crying or stop dry puking. I haven't told my husband yet and I don't how I'm going to do it. I know I have to tell him because he deserves to know. I don't want to lose my husband but I deserve it if I do. I hate how much I hurt him. I know what it feels like to be cheated on and I didn't think I would ever do that to someone. I wish this was a bad dream that I would wake up from. I don't know how to tell him and what to do for him  I don't know how I'm going to stop crying long enough to get the words out.
> 
> Am I allowed to be here? I just don't know what to do


As a betrayed spouse I encourage you to tell your husband ASAP. He deserves to know as you state in your post and I wholeheartedly concur. Sadly, you may lose your husband, but that is on you. Actions have consequences do not forget that.
He does not deserve this **** and you need to tell him and take your lumps. Let the chips fall where they may.


----------



## SunCMars

I guess...

I know...

If he hears it from you, rather than from somebody else it WILL go smoother. Give him all the details up front, do not penny, nickel trickle truth 'out' any extensive, expansive facts.

Lay it all out. 
Leave no doubts. 

While this may not save your marriage, it will save, and light up the dark side of your moon, and some of his worrying, wondering pride.

If you feel remorse, show it. 
Show it forever, and one day past.

Good luck.. 





[THM]- Nemesis


----------



## st232

I don't expect or want to be praised or coddled. I know I was wrong. I knew it was wrong. I know my husband might leave me and he has every right to. What I did is really hard for me to talk about. I hate that I did it. If I could take it back I would in a heartbeat. I know I have to be able my husbands questions and I can barely answer these. When I tell him it's about him and I need to be able to compose myself.

What happened? I went back home for my high school's 10 year reunion. My husband didn't want to come with me but I did want him to go. I haven't been back home since graduating and I wanted to see my family and old friends. I stayed for a week and came home a few days early because I didn't want to be there anymore after what I did.

Why did you do it? I don't know. It felt good in the moment . I felt like I traveled back in time and nothing had changed and lifes problems went away. I was stupid...

What choice would you make about your marriage if you knew your husband had, or was actively cheating on you? I think I would stay again.

How old are you and your husband? I'm 28. My husband is 32. We have been together for 10 years, married for 2 years.

Do you have minor children at home? We have a 9 year old and 2 year old.

Was it a ONS (one night stand) or an affair? I'm not sure what to call it.

Does your husband know the person you cheated with? No.

Have you ever cheated on him before? No.

Has he ever been cheated on before? No.

Is it over? Yes. I won't do it again.


----------



## moulinyx

st232 said:


> I don't expect or want to be praised or coddled. I know I was wrong. I knew it was wrong. I know my husband might leave me and he has every right to. What I did is really hard for me to talk about. I hate that I did it. If I could take it back I would in a heartbeat. I know I have to be able my husbands questions and I can barely answer these. When I tell him it's about him and I need to be able to compose myself.
> 
> What happened? I went back home for my high school's 10 year reunion. My husband didn't want to come with me but I did want him to go. I haven't been back home since graduating and I wanted to see my family and old friends. I stayed for a week and came home a few days early because I didn't want to be there anymore after what I did.
> 
> Why did you do it? I don't know. It felt good in the moment . I felt like I traveled back in time and nothing had changed and lifes problems went away. I was stupid...
> 
> What choice would you make about your marriage if you knew your husband had, or was actively cheating on you? I think I would stay again.
> 
> How old are you and your husband? I'm 28. My husband is 32. We have been together for 10 years, married for 2 years.
> 
> Do you have minor children at home? We have a 9 year old and 2 year old.
> 
> Was it a ONS (one night stand) or an affair? I'm not sure what to call it.
> 
> Does your husband know the person you cheated with? No.
> 
> Have you ever cheated on him before? No.
> 
> Has he ever been cheated on before? No.
> 
> Is it over? Yes. I won't do it again.


First off, obviously what you did was wrong. So wrong. 

However, I do think cheating and affairs are connected to other issues within the marriage. You do need to tell him right away, but you also really need to think about your "why". You said you would stay "again" if he cheated, so does that mean you have already had to forgive a transgression from his end? I am NOT saying this to enable you or make you feel like you had the right to step out of your marriage, but there is always a reason. 

I hope you find some peace. Tomorrow is a new day and will provide new opportunities to be better.


----------



## uhtred

A lot of people here are extremely hostile to cheaters. I'm not one of them. 

From my point of view, you need to ask yourself a few questions: (and you don't need to answer them here if you don't want).

Why did you cheat?
Has the reason you cheated gone away?
Is there anything you can do to make the reason go away?
If not, consider that it is likely you will do so again - no matter how guilty you feel about it now).

If you are in a marriage where you feel a strong desire to cheat, maybe its time to end the marriage and find someone more compatible.

I'm unusual in that I don't recommend telling the partner. I assuages guilt, but doesn't make things better. (assuming you have checked for STDs etc).


----------



## MattMatt

st232 said:


> Hi.
> 
> I don't want to say this...  I cheated on my husband. I hate saying that. I hate myself for doing it. I can't eat or sleep or stop crying or stop dry puking. I haven't told my husband yet and I don't how I'm going to do it. I know I have to tell him because he deserves to know. I don't want to lose my husband but I deserve it if I do. I hate how much I hurt him. I know what it feels like to be cheated on and I didn't think I would ever do that to someone. I wish this was a bad dream that I would wake up from. I don't know how to tell him and what to do for him  I don't know how I'm going to stop crying long enough to get the words out.
> 
> Am I allowed to be here? I just don't know what to do


Of course you can! There are a number of us who have cheated and a lot who were cheated on.

You will get lots of advice and help.

Some people might resent you for being a cheater. But I expect you were sort of aware that might happen. 

Hang in there!


----------



## MattMatt

Cletus said:


> Most here are not going to care a whit about your feelings, since you are not the victim here. You've earned some abuse, and you'd best be prepared to take it or your time here will be short. Grab onto something.
> 
> But you may also find help in moving forward from the perspective of others who have gone before you. For now, understand that most of us will want to hear what you are doing to be honest and transparent with your husband. Step 1 is always admitting that you have a problem.


MODERATION note:-

Nobody EVER earns abuse on TAM.

Criticism, yes. But NOT abuse.

Abuse is against the rules and can earn bans.


----------



## rugswept

you hurt him? you have no idea, yet. you haven't hurt him, at all. 
he doesn't know because you won't tell him. 
when you see him change before your eyes, you'll see how bad this really was. 

get it over with. it's your only chance. 
make sure you say you just can't live with yourself because of this, but only if you mean it.


----------



## MattMatt

rugswept said:


> you hurt him? you have no idea, yet. you haven't hurt him, at all.
> he doesn't know because you won't tell him.
> when you see him change before your eyes, you'll see how bad this really was.
> 
> get it over with. it's your only chance.
> make sure you say you just can't live with yourself because of this, but only if you mean it.


Yes. Confession will be good for both of you. One way or another.

Be truthful with him. Don't trickle it out over time. That actually makes it worse for the victim.


----------



## arbitrator

st232 said:


> *I don't expect or want to be praised or coddled. I know I was wrong. I knew it was wrong. I know my husband might leave me and he has every right to. What I did is really hard for me to talk about. I hate that I did it. If I could take it back I would in a heartbeat. I know I have to be able my husbands questions and I can barely answer these. When I tell him it's about him and I need to be able to compose myself.
> 
> What happened? I went back home for my high school's 10 year reunion. My husband didn't want to come with me but I did want him to go. I haven't been back home since graduating and I wanted to see my family and old friends. I stayed for a week and came home a few days early because I didn't want to be there anymore after what I did.
> 
> Why did you do it? I don't know. It felt good in the moment . I felt like I traveled back in time and nothing had changed and lifes problems went away. I was stupid...
> 
> What choice would you make about your marriage if you knew your husband had, or was actively cheating on you? I think I would stay again.
> 
> How old are you and your husband? I'm 28. My husband is 32. We have been together for 10 years, married for 2 years.
> 
> Do you have minor children at home? We have a 9 year old and 2 year old.
> 
> Was it a ONS (one night stand) or an affair? I'm not sure what to call it.
> 
> Does your husband know the person you cheated with? No.
> 
> Have you ever cheated on him before? No.
> 
> Has he ever been cheated on before? No.
> 
> Is it over? Yes. I won't do it again.*


*I would guess then that the prevailing questions here are: (1)  Why did you do it? And given the fact that once a spouse commits to an act of deception, the act itself has a tendency to become easier to recommit over the due course of time. Given that:

(2) Exactly what makes you so very sure that it will never happen again?*


----------



## Marc878

st232 said:


> Was it a ONS (one night stand) or an affair? I'm not sure what to call it.
> 
> Does your husband know the person you cheated with? No.
> 
> Have you ever cheated on him before? No.
> 
> Has he ever been cheated on before? No.
> 
> *Is it over? Yes. I won't do it again.*


Easy to say but the capability is there. You need to figure out why/how. You see this didn't just happen. It was a conscious decision you made. This wasn't a mistake. Mistakes are something you didn't mean to do.

If you don't figure this out the potential is there. 

Good luck, you're going to need it. An affair etc is the most devastating thing you can do to a spouse/marriage. I suspect you'll understand that shortly


----------



## Robbie1234

So it seems that the first time you were on a trip without your husband you cheated. You didn't answer whether it was a one night stand, so was it more than once and was it an ex boyfriend?
Do any of your family or friends know about your cheating and what's the chance that someone will tell your husband before you do. Is this the real reason you cut your trip short?
This hits home for me,I was the fool that trusted his wife while she took trips"for work" and I stayed at home with the children while she was screwing with someone else. 
I took her back and it's the biggest regret I have in my life. It seems that the first time you cheated is the hardest, after that it becomes easier.


----------



## Mr.Married

Going forward what you need is a plan:

Given everything we all see here, it needs to go like this:

You need to write down a time line of that night and everything that happened.

It will need to included EVERY LAST SORTED DETAIL.

Every difficult question will be asked by him and must be answered. EVERY LAST DETAIL.


This is what will happen if you hide any thing or trickle truth him: He will believe nothing you ever say again and you will always be a liar.

You will first give him all the truth you have .... and then the truth of every single question he ask. 

This is the ONLY possible way.

He will ask EVERYTHING!


----------



## MattMatt

Some spouses need all the sordid details. I didn't.

Just knowing what had happened was enough.


----------



## Laurentium

Mr.Married said:


> Every difficult question will be asked by him and must be answered. EVERY LAST DETAIL.


Personally I disagree: do not answer questions about the mechanics of the sex. 
How big was... how long did it last ... what position... did you... 
Don't answer those questions, is my recommendation.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Mr.Married said:


> Going forward what you need is a plan:
> 
> Given everything we all see here, it needs to go like this:
> 
> You need to write down a time line of that night and everything that happened.
> 
> It will need to included EVERY LAST SORTED DETAIL.
> 
> Every difficult question will be asked by him and must be answered. EVERY LAST DETAIL.
> 
> 
> This is what will happen if you hide any thing or trickle truth him: He will believe nothing you ever say again and you will always be a liar.
> 
> You will first give him all the truth you have .... and then the truth of every single question he ask.
> 
> This is the ONLY possible way.
> 
> He will ask EVERYTHING!


Indeed he will I did. I wanted every detail possible. It hurt like hell, but my FWW answered every question I asked....how could you....why....how long....how big....condoms...where...was he every in our house...what positions...oral...anal..how man encounters...were there photos or video....etc. One question cut to the bone. I won’t mention which one but most men can figure it out. I would not have been able to R without my wife coming clean. Honesty is the only way to save your marriage. My FWW and I are 3 years into R. 

Be prepared for your husband to be like me as far as questions. If you want to save your marriage DO NOT TRICKLE TRUTH!
Be prepared for his reaction as you will likely knock him to his knees. You are going to have to show remorse. True remorse. You need to be willing to do anything he needs to help him heal and it will be a long arduous process.

I sense that you may benefit from IC to fix what is broken in you. If he wants to save the marriage find a good marriage counselor.


----------



## Andy1001

Op you used the pronoun “I” fifty times in your first two posts. 
Just sayin.

One thing that you glossed over was why your husband didn’t join you on your trip.
Did you leave your children at home while you had your fling or were they with you? This is school time so was part of the reason your husband didn’t accompany you that your oldest child was in school and someone had to be there for the younger child? A responsible adult?
The second thing you glossed over was whether it was a ons or an affair. You are being obtuse by saying you don’t know,of course you know. Was this a vacation fling and your boyfriend went home and left you feeling used and sorry?
I’m not going to judge you here but if you can’t be completely honest with people on an anonymous Internet forum then I don’t put great store in your ability to be honest with your husband.


----------



## In Absentia

Just don't tell him... if you can live with it. You made a silly mistake and you won't do it again. If you tell him, your family and marriage will be destroyed and your children will suffer. I don't condone it, but think about your kids first. Lots of people won't agree with me over this, so I await the nuclear fallout now... :laugh:


----------



## Lostinthought61

if someone has not mention it before get a STD panel done asap...and if you have had sex with your husband i would have him get one as well. 
I hope you sent a non contact email to this person and if this person is married your husband may want you to call her as well. And please please do not hide this person name from your husband....he is as much involved in this affair as you were...


----------



## Mr.Married

In Absentia said:


> Just don't tell him... if you can live with it. You made a silly mistake and you won't do it again. If you tell him, your family and marriage will be destroyed and your children will suffer. I don't condone it, but think about your kids first. Lots of people won't agree with me over this, so I await the nuclear fallout now... :laugh:


Everyone has their view and of coarse you are allowed yours ,,, though you may just take a beating for it >>>>>


----------



## In Absentia

Mr.Married said:


> Everyone has their view and of coarse you are allowed yours ,,, though you may just take a beating for it >>>>>


I know... but I don't care. Nothing good is going to come out of this for the kids. Nobody is perfect.


----------



## dreamer2017

Dear ST232,

You must understand that good people can sometimes make bad decisions. I do believe you are a good person because you are being torn apart by your conscience. It is my opinion, in your heart, you couldn’t withhold telling your husband about the affair because that is not the type of person you are regardless of the outcome. SunCMars has given you a short but a descriptive process in how to proceed. I’m hoping for the best for you and your family.

Many Blessings,
Dreamer


----------



## Andy1001

In Absentia said:


> Just don't tell him... if you can live with it. You made a silly mistake and you won't do it again. If you tell him, your family and marriage will be destroyed and your children will suffer. I don't condone it, but think about your kids first. Lots of people won't agree with me over this, so I await the nuclear fallout now... :laugh:


It’s funny but I was of the same mind about not saying anything. But after reading again I think the important words in her first post was “went home”. 
To me it sounds like she met an old boyfriend (or boyfriends ?) and in her own words “went back in time” and “life’s problems disappeared”.
By problems I assume she meant having a husband and two children. 
And because she was in her home town she runs the risk of someone else(a jealous girlfriend or wife of her AP perhaps) telling her husband the sordid details. Does anyone from her own family know what she did?
She hasn’t mentioned birth control.She could be pregnant or have an STD.
There are too many unanswered questions here.


----------



## MattMatt

In Absentia said:


> I know... but I don't care. Nothing good is going to come out of this for the kids. Nobody is perfect.


Confession is good for the soul.

Well, it was good for my soul when I confessed my idiotic, drunken revenge affair.


----------



## Laurentium

In Absentia said:


> Just don't tell him... if you can live with it. You made a silly mistake and you won't do it again. If you tell him, your family and marriage will be destroyed and your children will suffer. I don't condone it, but think about your kids first.


I think there is something to be said for that. It depends whether there is any risk of it getting found out. 
Like you, I know this view will not be popular with the betrayed spouses on the board. It sounds like "getting away with it". But it also spares husband and children a lot of pain.


----------



## cashcratebob

st232 said:


> I don't expect or want to be praised or coddled. I know I was wrong. I knew it was wrong. I know my husband might leave me and he has every right to. What I did is really hard for me to talk about. I hate that I did it. If I could take it back I would in a heartbeat. I know I have to be able my husbands questions and I can barely answer these. When I tell him it's about him and I need to be able to compose myself.
> 
> What happened? I went back home for my high school's 10 year reunion. My husband didn't want to come with me but I did want him to go. I haven't been back home since graduating and I wanted to see my family and old friends. I stayed for a week and came home a few days early because I didn't want to be there anymore after what I did.
> 
> Why did you do it? I don't know. It felt good in the moment . I felt like I traveled back in time and nothing had changed and lifes problems went away. I was stupid...
> 
> What choice would you make about your marriage if you knew your husband had, or was actively cheating on you? *I think I would stay again.*
> 
> How old are you and your husband? I'm 28. My husband is 32. We have been together for 10 years, married for 2 years.
> 
> Do you have minor children at home? We have a 9 year old and 2 year old.
> 
> Was it a ONS (one night stand) or an affair? I'm not sure what to call it.
> 
> Does your husband know the person you cheated with? No.
> 
> Have you ever cheated on him before? No.
> 
> Has he ever been cheated on before? No.
> 
> Is it over? Yes. I won't do it again.


Did he cheat on you before? Not that a revenge affair is ok.


----------



## In Absentia

MattMatt said:


> Confession is good for the soul.


Of course... but sometimes confessions are good for nothing...  I'm not defending her actions, I wonder whether the kids should come first. We know what's wrong, but we don't know if putting a wrong right will be right.


----------



## samyeagar

st232 said:


> I don't expect or want to be praised or coddled. I know I was wrong. I knew it was wrong. I know my husband might leave me and he has every right to. What I did is really hard for me to talk about. I hate that I did it. If I could take it back I would in a heartbeat. I know I have to be able my husbands questions and I can barely answer these. When I tell him it's about him and I need to be able to compose myself.
> 
> What happened? I went back home for my high school's 10 year reunion. My husband didn't want to come with me but I did want him to go. I haven't been back home since graduating and I wanted to see my family and old friends. I stayed for a week and came home a few days early because I didn't want to be there anymore after what I did.
> 
> Why did you do it? I don't know. It felt good in the moment . I felt like I traveled back in time and nothing had changed and lifes problems went away. I was stupid...
> 
> *What choice would you make about your marriage if you knew your husband had, or was actively cheating on you*? *I think I would stay again*.
> 
> How old are you and your husband? I'm 28. My husband is 32. We have been together for 10 years, married for 2 years.
> 
> Do you have minor children at home? We have a 9 year old and 2 year old.
> 
> Was it a ONS (one night stand) or an affair? I'm not sure what to call it.
> 
> Does your husband know the person you cheated with? No.
> 
> Have you ever cheated on him before? No.
> 
> Has he ever been cheated on before? No.
> 
> Is it over? Yes. I won't do it again.



So combining this with your first post and knowing what it feels like to be cheated on, are you saying that your husband cheated on you in the past, and you chose to reconcile?


----------



## Robert22205

Was the OM married?
Was he an EX or a stranger?
Did you communicate with the OM prior to the reunion?
Did you tell anyone else? 

My advice is:

Get tested for STDs immediately! 

Do not blame your husband or marriage for your decision to cheat. Your crying and dry heaves will be viewed as an attempt to get pity (and not as remorse). His pain is 1,000 times worse than your shame. Your husband is the victim (not you). It will take your husband 2-5 years to recover and it's up to him to decide to R or D.

We all have personal issues, boredom, feeling ignored, fantasies,mid life crisis, and temptations - but we don't act on them. You did - and you need to figure out why in order to make yourself a safe partner going forward. Do not rug sweep and tell yourself you won't do it again! Consider IC and self help books.

I suggest you read the following book (it's a very short read). You can find it on Amazon (get it today).

"How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful"
by Linda MacDonald

Read "Not Just Friends" by Dr Glass - among other things it discusses boundaries and different types of affairs. It may help you better understand how this happened.

Be prepared to write up a timeline of your interaction with the OM....from the first words, your verbal conversation and what you felt and thought - up to and through the sex. 

Answer every question (this is critical) your husband asks (no matter how personal or embarrassing).

Be prepared to identify the OM (again this is critical). 

Be prepared to confess to your family, friends, and church. Exposure is one of the consequences (for you and the OM).


----------



## personofinterest

Deejo said:


> Information about the history of the relationship with your husband, and an acknowledgment of your understanding how and/or why the affair started, and how long it lasted are standard information.
> 
> Once again, if you get anyone here asking you about gory intimate details regarding the nature and extent of the affair, those things are explicitly against the forum guidelines.
> 
> There can be a lot of projection around here. But there is a good amount of wisdom as well.


I'm quoting this so you will read it again.

What you did was very wrong.

You are still a human being. Also, be sure to explore your profile page. There is an ignore list to which you can add people. I have about 10 on mine, and my forum experience has improved greatly.

It is good that you feel such guilt. Guilt tells us we are wrong. It is good that you know you need to tell the truth. The truth IS right here. Telling him IS the right thing.

As for what you deserve....you deserve to feel horrible about what you did. You do NOT deserve abuse from strangers. Nit to mention that bullying, harassment, and personal attacks are against the rules.

There are some great, healthy, healed people here who gain help you walk through being honest and humble and regaining your integrity. The person I quoted it one of them.


----------



## personofinterest

Mr.Married said:


> Going forward what you need is a plan:
> 
> Given everything we all see here, it needs to go like this:
> 
> You need to write down a time line of that night and everything that happened.
> 
> It will need to included EVERY LAST SORTED DETAIL.
> 
> Every difficult question will be asked by him and must be answered. EVERY LAST DETAIL.
> 
> 
> This is what will happen if you hide any thing or trickle truth him: He will believe nothing you ever say again and you will always be a liar.
> 
> You will first give him all the truth you have .... and then the truth of every single question he ask.
> 
> This is the ONLY possible way.
> 
> He will ask EVERYTHING!


Comment: yes, you need a timeline. NO you do not need to write every sexual nuance.

NOPE. Ya don't 

Yes, include number of times and such. If you husband want to know where your foot was or whether you said "oh god!" He will ask.

Being honest is essential. Being cruel in tiny detail is not only, well, cruel....its, quite frankly, just a ploy to shock your husband into leaving.

Answer all his questions transparently.

But NO. NO there is no need for a sex novel.

Nope


----------



## personofinterest

Mr.Married said:


> In Absentia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just don't tell him... if you can live with it. You made a silly mistake and you won't do it again. If you tell him, your family and marriage will be destroyed and your children will suffer. I don't condone it, but think about your kids first. Lots of people won't agree with me over this, so I await the nuclear fallout now... <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_smile_big.png" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" ></a>
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone has their view and of coarse you are allowed yours ,,, though you may just take a beating for it <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_devil.png" border="0" alt="" title="Devil" ></a><a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_devil.png" border="0" alt="" title="Devil" ></a><a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_devil.png" border="0" alt="" title="Devil" ></a><a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_devil.png" border="0" alt="" title="Devil" ></a><a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_devil.png" border="0" alt="" title="Devil" ></a>
Click to expand...

Good people don't lie and hide, OP.

Be a good person.


----------



## Mr.Married

personofinterest said:


> Comment: yes, you need a timeline. NO you do not need to write every sexual nuance.
> 
> NOPE. Ya don't
> 
> Yes, include number of times and such. If you husband want to know where your foot was or whether you said "oh god!" He will ask.
> 
> Being honest is essential. Being cruel in tiny detail is not only, well, cruel....its, quite frankly, just a ploy to shock your husband into leaving.
> 
> Answer all his questions transparently.
> 
> But NO. NO there is no need for a sex novel.
> 
> Nope


Given your response and that of some others I might see where there is some truth in that. I guess it's up to the victim to determine level of detail.


----------



## personofinterest

""How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful"
by Linda MacDonald

Read "Not Just Friends" by Dr Glass - among other things it discusses boundaries and different types of affairs. It may help you better understand how this happened."

Get these books today.


----------



## personofinterest

Mr.Married said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Comment: yes, you need a timeline. NO you do not need to write every sexual nuance.
> 
> NOPE. Ya don't
> 
> Yes, include number of times and such. If you husband want to know where your foot was or whether you said "oh god!" He will ask.
> 
> Being honest is essential. Being cruel in tiny detail is not only, well, cruel....its, quite frankly, just a ploy to shock your husband into leaving.
> 
> Answer all his questions transparently.
> 
> But NO. NO there is no need for a sex novel.
> 
> Nope
> 
> 
> 
> Given your response and that of some others I might see where there is some truth in that. I guess it's up to the victim to determine level of detail.
Click to expand...

Yep. It's up to the BS. He can ask, and she should answer.


----------



## Mr.Married

personofinterest said:


> Yep. It's up to the BS. He can ask, and she should answer.



Subtract 2 inches to be on the safe side.

Just saying .....


----------



## wilson

While I can understand not wanting to tell, the fact is that the truth can be revealed at any time. This guy can come back into the picture at any time, he can contact your husband, someone else can say something, and so on. If 10 years later it comes out, he is going to doubt everything about your relationship for keeping the secret for so long. He's going to be sure you were cheating the whole time. He's going to think he wasted all those years. There are many threads here from spouses who found out about the cheating decades ago and they are devastated. Cheating was a huge moral failing. The only ethical thing to do is to tell him and deal with the consequences.


----------



## personofinterest

wilson said:


> While I can understand not wanting to tell, the fact is that the truth can be revealed at any time. This guy can come back into the picture at any time, he can contact your husband, someone else can say something, and so on. If 10 years later it comes out, he is going to doubt everything about your relationship for keeping the secret for so long. He's going to be sure you were cheating the whole time. He's going to think he wasted all those years. There are many threads here from spouses who found out about the cheating decades ago and they are devastated. Cheating was a huge moral failing. The only ethical thing to do is to tell him and deal with the consequences.


Excellent points


----------



## MattMatt

@st232 I have moved your thread to Coping With Infidelity.


----------



## Casual Observer

st232 said:


> Hi.
> 
> I don't want to say this...  I cheated on my husband. I hate saying that. I hate myself for doing it. I can't eat or sleep or stop crying or stop dry puking. I haven't told my husband yet and I don't how I'm going to do it. I know I have to tell him because he deserves to know. I don't want to lose my husband but I deserve it if I do. I hate how much I hurt him. I know what it feels like to be cheated on and I didn't think I would ever do that to someone. I wish this was a bad dream that I would wake up from. I don't know how to tell him and what to do for him  I don't know how I'm going to stop crying long enough to get the words out.
> 
> Am I allowed to be here? I just don't know what to do


As for telling him, you have to ask yourself a few questions that go beyond the issue of simply what's appropriate/what you "owe" your husband.

#1: Can you take this secret to your grave with you, and not be thinking about it constantly? Because we've seen in many threads on TAM that such revelations, decades later, have had just as much potential to split people up as when revealed earlier. And if there's a need for people to move on with their lives and find happiness, if that's possible, it will be easier for someone younger, with more time, than later.

#2: Who else knows? Is the person you cheated with trustworthy? Likely not or he wouldn't have cheated with a married woman. But obviously your secret is shared with someone else, and people talk. Especially if the other person has other friends he's still connected with that attended that high school.

#3: You weren't sure if it was an affair or an ONS. That's troubling; if it had happened just once, the ONS label might have seemed appropriate. Inability to choose implies this is something that you gave thought to and continued past an initial, impulsive failure on your part. It implies continued susceptibility is possible. You may not have truly written it off as a once-in-a-lifetime failure to honor your marriage. You need to come to grips with the process that allowed things to happen in the way they happened. Especially if you're going to explain what happened to your husband. Do NOT be that person that tells a bit of the story and then, as he asks more and more questions, more and more is revealed. Reveal everything at once. Have your recollections extremely clear on what happened and how you felt about it at the time.

Hoping for the best for both of you-


----------



## TJW

personofinterest said:


> Comment: yes, you need a timeline. NO you do not need to write every sexual nuance.
> 
> Being honest is essential. Being cruel in tiny detail is not only, well, cruel....


My XWW had a chance to reconcile our marriage - but she used the intimate details of her AP as a tool of blaming me for her concupiscence. If only I had been "bigger", if only I had been "better", she even told me that my elder son said her AP was "the father he always wanted". 

None of these things were asked by me. She used them as weapons to establish that her affairs were my "fault"..... not the fault of her own moral and ethical failure.

These actions proved to me that she had no respect, regard, or concern for my feelings or for my emotional welfare.... and that she believed herself "entitled" to a man with a larger penis and who could "provide" her better sex. They also showed me beyond any reasonable doubt that she had no contrition about her actions.

Even after discovery, and marital counseling, my XWW chose to continue her affair. She could have chosen to end her affair, come home, confess, and worked toward building a good marriage with me. She, regrettably, did not make this choice, I caught them together.

Please listen to the advice of @personofinterest .... truth, yes.... salient facts, yes.... cruelty, no.....

My XWW lost me. And, I didn't notice that I had been "replaced" by any porn stars.....

Just now, the "odds" of reconciliation from this are swinging in your favor. Your admission without being "caught" is BIG. The fact that you quickly repented of it and returned home early is BIG. The fact that you are expressing regret and remorse for your action is BIG. 

There's no guarantees that your husband will be able to "get past" it. However, all the things which would help him to choose reconciliation are now aligned on "your side"......now.....the BIG is here, in your hands....

If you wait until your husband finds out (and, he most likely will) you will lose all the "BIG".

Please listen to @Casual Observer, too.


----------



## personofinterest

One thing I advise...when confessing, focus on your actions only. Your responsibility. Don't talk about feeling lonely or neglected or any possible marriage issues. Even if it isn't, it will SOUND like blame.

In fact, I think marriage issues should be off the table those first few months. The sole focus is to help your husband.


----------



## SunCMars

MattMatt said:


> Some spouses need all the sordid details. I didn't.
> 
> Just knowing what had happened was enough.


Aye!

I cannot handle the truth. My imagination would just make what was said, what was admitted to....two times larger, three times worse.





[THM]- Harken O'Ryan


----------



## st232

I'm scared to write what I did. I feel disgusting and pathetic. I know that I deserve criticism and it will be far worse from my husband. I'm embarrassed of what I did. I have tried to tell my husband but I can't get anything out. He's going to hate me and I'm scared about his reaction. My husband needs and deserves to know. I've been cheated on and I know what it feels like. I know how it feels to be sat down and told that. I know how it feels to find out from someone else and I don't want my husband to ever feel that. It's one of the only things I have control over at this point. He can walk away from me, but I can at least give him the info from my mouth rather than someone else. Cheating was my decision that I made because I suck. My husband, marriage and problems are not at blame. Writing why I did it will sound a lot like blaming.

I'm not going to have sex with my husband until I have an STD test. My doctor said it's too early to test.

May 19 I flew to my hometown. I was going to stay from the 19th to the 29th. I had vacation time to use and my husband didn't want to use his this year. I invited my husband and did want him to come with me. I wanted my husband with me. He stayed home because he didn't want to take time off work for that as he had no interest in going. His vacation time carries over and mine does not. Our two kids stayed with my MIL for the week and my husband staycationed home alone. I have not gone back home since graduating and I was excited to see my family and old friends. I met with some old friends which included ex's throughout the week. On the 24th my high school had a reunion party. I made horrible choices. I came home the morning of the 26th. I came home because I didn't want to be there anymore after what I did. I wanted to be home and didn't want to see anyone again. I also knew that if I stayed my husband would think the cheating continued.

Only my brother knows because he saw a guy leave my room. I was the only one who broke vows that night. I haven't accepted any contact since that night.

To me a ONS is having sex one time with a person you don't know and never seeing them again and an affair is ongoing. That's why I don't know where to categorize it. If there was start to finish sex more than once in one night but with people from the past is that still a ONS? Not to me.

I don't want to give him the specific sexual details... I've asked for those details in my past and I regret doing that. Do I write the timeline before I talk to him? It has to be a play by play of that day? I'm not making a play by play of the sex...

I will buy and read the book recommendations.


----------



## manfromlamancha

st232 said:


> I don't expect or want to be praised or coddled. I know I was wrong. I knew it was wrong. I know my husband might leave me and he has every right to. What I did is really hard for me to talk about. I hate that I did it. If I could take it back I would in a heartbeat. I know I have to be able my husbands questions and I can barely answer these. When I tell him it's about him and I need to be able to compose myself.
> 
> What happened? I went back home for my high school's 10 year reunion. My husband didn't want to come with me but I did want him to go. I haven't been back home since graduating and I wanted to see my family and old friends. I stayed for a week and came home a few days early because I didn't want to be there anymore after what I did.
> 
> Why did you do it? I don't know. It felt good in the moment . I felt like I traveled back in time and nothing had changed and lifes problems went away. I was stupid...
> 
> What choice would you make about your marriage if you knew your husband had, or was actively cheating on you? I think I would stay again.
> 
> How old are you and your husband? I'm 28. My husband is 32. We have been together for 10 years, married for 2 years.
> 
> Do you have minor children at home? We have a 9 year old and 2 year old.
> 
> *Was it a ONS (one night stand) or an affair? I'm not sure what to call it.*
> 
> Does your husband know the person you cheated with? No.
> 
> Have you ever cheated on him before? No.
> 
> Has he ever been cheated on before? No.
> 
> Is it over? Yes. I won't do it again.


You still haven't provided info that was asked. Well, how many times did you "do it" ? All in one go or over more that one day. Who was it ? Who initiated ? Where did you do it ? Did you do anything that you did not do with your husband ? Is the POSOM married ? What was said when you were leaving (how did you leave it with the POSOM)? Did you use protection ? Who else knows about this ?


----------



## SunCMars

Laurentium said:


> I think there is something to be said for that. It depends whether there is any risk of it getting found out.
> Like you, I know this view will not be popular with the betrayed spouses on the board. It sounds like "getting away with it". But it also spares husband and children a lot of pain.


I would sit up in my seat and pay attention if a lady TAM poster said, 'Keep it a secret, forever".
Admit sin, never sin again, move on, keep your mouth shut.

That would take true courage.

I suspect some do feel this way.
Yes, I do.

Of course, most would not say this because a window to their soul would ever be opened. 
A window most women would not want men folks to know, exists.

Note:

When watching a movie with your female mate, watch her actions and words when a women in the movie cheats...
And when she contemplates telling her husband. 

Many will say, quietly, and emotionally, "Shut up dummy, let it go". 
"Don't be stupid".
"Don't tell him".

Especially, if they see that she will likely never be discovered.

Yes.




[THM]- Lilith


----------



## personofinterest

st232 said:


> I'm scared to write what I did. I feel disgusting and pathetic. I know that I deserve criticism and it will be far worse from my husband. I'm embarrassed of what I did. I have tried to tell my husband but I can't get anything out. He's going to hate me and I'm scared about his reaction. My husband needs and deserves to know. I've been cheated on and I know what it feels like. I know how it feels to be sat down and told that. I know how it feels to find out from someone else and I don't want my husband to ever feel that. It's one of the only things I have control over at this point. He can walk away from me, but I can at least give him the info from my mouth rather than someone else. Cheating was my decision that I made because I suck. My husband, marriage and problems are not at blame. Writing why I did it will sound a lot like blaming.
> 
> I'm not going to have sex with my husband until I have an STD test. My doctor said it's too early to test.
> 
> May 19 I flew to my hometown. I was going to stay from the 19th to the 29th. I had vacation time to use and my husband didn't want to use his this year. I invited my husband and did want him to come with me. I wanted my husband with me. He stayed home because he didn't want to take time off work for that as he had no interest in going. His vacation time carries over and mine does not. Our two kids stayed with my MIL for the week and my husband staycationed home alone. I have not gone back home since graduating and I was excited to see my family and old friends. I met with some old friends which included ex's throughout the week. On the 24th my high school had a reunion party. I made horrible choices. I came home the morning of the 26th. I came home because I didn't want to be there anymore after what I did. I wanted to be home and didn't want to see anyone again. I also knew that if I stayed my husband would think the cheating continued.
> 
> Only my brother knows because he saw a guy leave my room. I was the only one who broke vows that night. I haven't accepted any contact since that night.
> 
> To me a ONS is having sex one time with a person you don't know and never seeing them again and an affair is ongoing. That's why I don't know where to categorize it. If there was start to finish sex more than once in one night but with people from the past is that still a ONS? Not to me.
> 
> I don't want to give him the specific sexual details... I've asked for those details in my past and I regret doing that. Do I write the timeline before I talk to him? It has to be a play by play of that day? I'm not making a play by play of the sex...
> 
> I will buy and read the book recommendations.


Here is what I would do.

Arrange for your kids to be with a friend or family member. After dinner tell your husband you need to talk. Sit face to face and tell him, "I need to tell you the truth about a terrible choice I made. On May 24, I cheated on you. I slept with someone else." It seems blunt, but "laying groundwork" just drags it out. Be humble. Be honest. No matter what he says, resist any urge to defend or minimize. Tell him the steps you are taking to make amends.. Be completely open. Understand that his emotions will ricochet all over.

I suggest doing this as soon as you can arrange it. Offer a timeline, but don't worry about writing it first. It can become an excuse to postpone.

Order the books suggested above today.


----------



## st232

You still haven't provided info that was asked. Well, how many times did you "do it" ? All in one go or over more that one day. Three times in one day.


Who initiated ? I didn't initiate but flirted and went along with it. 

Where did you do it ? My hotel room.

Did you do anything that you did not do with your husband ? Yes 

Is the POSOM married ? No

What was said when you were leaving (how did you leave it with the POSOM)? A note left for me that said thanks for the lay and a text. I haven't responded to texts.

Did you use protection ? No

Who else knows about this ? On my side my brother.

I would take it back if I could


----------



## personofinterest

Just a reminder: you don't owe US the same level of detail you owe your husband. No.....you don't 

We can help you JUST FINE without knowing positions, orgasm, even number of times. Yes....we can.

This site is some people's vicarious coping or reality show.

You are NOT obligated to feed that.


----------



## personofinterest

personofinterest said:


> Just a reminder: you don't owe US the same level of detail you owe your husband. No.....you don't
> 
> We can help you JUST FINE without knowing positions, orgasm, even number of times. Yes....we can.
> 
> This site is some people's vicarious coping or reality show.
> 
> You are NOT obligated to feed that.


Saying this twice


----------



## Robert22205

Did you communicate with the OM prior to the trip?
Are you facebook friends?

There are no concrete laws with respect to disclosing sexual details. However, the amount of detail needed is up to the betrayed spouse (not you ...regardless of your previous experience). I suggest before revealing sexual details that he first discuss it in IC or at least think about it for a few days.

One common mistake is for the cheater to attempt to control the outcome. You can't control the outcome because it's his decision to R or D. Any attempt by you to control the outcome will backfire.

I also sent you a private message.


----------



## Yeswecan

You will need to spill the beans, all of them at once, because I do not sense you have it in you to keep this a secret. Besides, it will get out eventually. You will read many posts here of affairs found out years later. 

Keep posting. Good luck.


----------



## personofinterest

I also discourage ANY private communication with ANY Male AT ALL. Even here.

The last thing a woman who has cheated needs to do is to exchange private communication with a man.

Everything can be said HERE.

Sheesh, transparency 101


----------



## In Absentia

I will be putting my fingers in my ears and I will be covering my eyes... :frown2:


----------



## Steelman

st232 said:


> You still haven't provided info that was asked. Well, how many times did you "do it" ? All in one go or over more that one day. Three times in one day.
> 
> 
> Who initiated ? I didn't initiate but flirted and went along with it.
> 
> Where did you do it ? My hotel room.
> 
> Did you do anything that you did not do with your husband ? Yes
> 
> Is the POSOM married ? No
> 
> What was said when you were leaving (how did you leave it with the POSOM)? A note that said thanks for the lay and a text. I haven't responded to texts.
> 
> Did you use protection ? No
> 
> Who else knows about this ? On my side my brother.
> 
> I would take it back if I could


I would have said, take it to your grave as I can tell you feel like crap, and never go back to a reunion. But since your brother knows, you are screwed. You have to confess.

I think you are a good person- this is just another example of why married people really, REALLY, need to watch their boundaries. A little booze and things can spin out of control.

And he did things your hubby doesn't get to do? Oh boy. You are going to have to tell him.


----------



## sigma1299

Two points I'll add...

One if you tell him, tell him all of it. The first time. Write it down if you have to. Trickle truth is the worst. And if you're going to tell him the sooner the better. Answer all of his questions with 100% truthfulness. Once you tell him be nothing but 100% honest. Let him decide what questions he wants to ask regarding details but if he ask tell him.

Two. I hear you that this was a ONS but what happens if this guy starts messaging you? What happens if he suddenly shows up at your door? This is a guy from your past, presumably some sort of old flame. The problem with old flames is they very seldom go all the way out. Think hard about what happens if he reappears. Odds are probably better that he will than that he wont. 

It's a tough spot you've put you both in. I can see the logic behind those that say don't tell. Me. I could never have lived with the secret.


----------



## Robbie1234

st232 said:


> You still haven't provided info that was asked. Well, how many times did you "do it" ? All in one go or over more that one day. Three times in one day.
> 
> 
> Who initiated ? I didn't initiate but flirted and went along with it.
> 
> Where did you do it ? My hotel room.
> 
> Did you do anything that you did not do with your husband ? Yes
> 
> Is the POSOM married ? No
> 
> What was said when you were leaving (how did you leave it with the POSOM)? A note that said thanks for the lay and a text. I haven't responded to texts.
> 
> Did you use protection ? No
> 
> Who else knows about this ? On my side my brother.
> 
> I would take it back if I could


You do realise that you could be pregnant don't you?.


----------



## TJW

st232 said:


> Did you do anything that you did not do with your husband ? Yes
> 
> What was said when you were leaving (how did you leave it with the POSOM)? A note that said thanks for the lay and a text. I haven't responded to texts.


The fact that you have not responded to the OM is BIG.

"thanks for the lay" and doing things you didn't do with your husband are both DEADLY POISON, and will work against reconciliation. Please avoid these details, if possible. They are not germane to your marriage, any more than if you did things with prior-to-marriage sexual partners that you don't do with your husband.

If you have refused to do any of these things with your husband, but did them with an AP, that is double-trouble. Be as careful as you can to not reveal this, if that is possible.




st232 said:


> I would take it back if I could


I believe you. I fully believe that statement from you. That kind of statement, to your husband, is BIG. "BIG" will go away completely when you are "caught", but right now, BIG is in effect.
@personofinterest is still coming down exactly right here.


----------



## personofinterest

sigma1299 said:


> Two points I'll add...
> 
> One if you tell him, tell him all of it. The first time. Write it down if you have to. Trickle truth is the worst. And if you're going to tell him the sooner the better. Answer all of his questions with 100% truthfulness. Once you tell him be nothing but 100% honest. Let him decide what questions he wants to ask regarding details but if he ask tell him.
> 
> Two. I hear you that this was a ONS but what happens if this guy starts messaging you? What happens if he suddenly shows up at your door? This is a guy from your past, presumably some sort of old flame. The problem with old flames is they very seldom go all the way out. Think hard about what happens if he reappears. Odds are probably better that he will than that he wont.
> 
> It's a tough spot you've put you both in. I can see the logic behind those that say don't tell. Me. I could never have lived with the secret.


Very good points.

Your husband may want you to send him a no-contact letter. Let your husband decide this. Be willing to CHANGE all your contact info if necessary.

I would add Surviving an Affair to your reading list as well.


----------



## personofinterest

I want to reiterate that there is not one Male here who needs to communicate privately with you. Not one.

PMs from women may be helpful. NO MEN

They ought to know better anyway.


----------



## TJW

personofinterest said:


> Your husband may want you to send him a no-contact letter. Let your husband decide this.


If that is what your husband wants, my advice is that you drop EVERYTHING you have on your plate, until you send, in your husband's presence, that exact no-contact, and let the entire tense of your statement be FOREVER.

Do not delay 5 seconds about doing this. This is BIG, and no future contact for any reason is the only way to keep BIG. Any compromise will take away BIG.
Any delay will take away BIG.

Do not make this any kind of "Dear John" letter. Use one very short sentence like "I want you to stay the hell out of my life forever". Speak in no ambiguity.

We men will write everything that we say to you here in the public view, we do not need any private medium.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Laurentium said:


> I think there is something to be said for that. It depends whether there is any risk of it getting found out.
> Like you, I know this view will not be popular with the betrayed spouses on the board. It sounds like "getting away with it". But it also spares husband and children a lot of pain.


That's still a cop out though. It's not about whether or not one "gets away with it." It's about both partners having an accurate picture of who they are living with and the knowledge required to respond accordingly. 

It also has nothing to do with probability of getting caught. Integrity is doing the right thing even when no one is looking. 

Every day this tale goes untold is another day this marriage is founded on a lie. Perpetuation of lies is not good. Period.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Mr.Married said:


> Subtract 2 inches to be on the safe side.
> 
> Just saying .....


While there's a twinge of humor in that statement, and some solid reasoning behind it, lies of any type at this point should be clearly out of bounds.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

st232 said:


> You still haven't provided info that was asked. Well, how many times did you "do it" ? All in one go or over more that one day. Three times in one day.
> 
> 
> Who initiated ? I didn't initiate but flirted and went along with it.
> 
> Where did you do it ? My hotel room.
> 
> *Did you do anything that you did not do with your husband ? Yes *
> 
> Is the POSOM married ? No
> 
> What was said when you were leaving (how did you leave it with the POSOM)? A note left for me that said thanks for the lay and a text. I haven't responded to texts.
> 
> Did you use protection ? No
> 
> Who else knows about this ? On my side my brother.
> 
> I would take it back if I could


MASSIVE Danger zone here. That's gonna' be a major problem right there.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

TJW said:


> The fact that you have not responded to the OM is BIG.
> 
> "thanks for the lay" and doing things you didn't do with your husband are both DEADLY POISON, and will work against reconciliation. Please avoid these details, if possible. *They are not germane to your marriage, *any more than if you did things with prior-to-marriage sexual partners that you don't do with your husband.
> 
> If you have refused to do any of these things with your husband, but did them with an AP, that is double-trouble. Be as careful as you can to not reveal this, if that is possible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe you. I fully believe that statement from you. That kind of statement, to your husband, is BIG. "BIG" will go away completely when you are "caught", but right now, BIG is in effect.
> 
> @personofinterest is still coming down exactly right here.


How the hell is this not germane? 
First of all, what was done outside the marriage while married has ZERO equivalence with what may have been done with others _before _the marriage. NONE.
Second, if she was willing to do intimate things with another she is not willing to do with her husband, that is a very telling dynamic that most definitely plays a part in the state of her marriage. Hiding that is every bit as evil as hiding that she even committed adultery in the first place. If you share that you had sex with someone else but hide that you did different things, that is still deceit, worst of all, *depriving the BS of critical information, denying him his right to make a decision based on the whole truth, not some watered down lie. *


----------



## Yeswecan

st232 said:


> You still haven't provided info that was asked. Well, how many times did you "do it" ? All in one go or over more that one day. Three times in one day.
> 
> 
> Who initiated ? I didn't initiate but flirted and went along with it.
> 
> Where did you do it ? My hotel room.
> 
> Did you do anything that you did not do with your husband ? Yes
> 
> Is the POSOM married ? No
> 
> What was said when you were leaving (how did you leave it with the POSOM)? A note left for me that said thanks for the lay and a text. I haven't responded to texts.
> 
> Did you use protection ? No
> 
> Who else knows about this ? On my side my brother.
> 
> I would take it back if I could



Sorry friend. I do not see much recovery in your marriage from this. Sorry for your H.


----------



## st232

I did some things I haven't with my husband but he's never asked or tried to do them. I know it will be the worst part though but I can't hide it. The cocky thanks for the lay note wasn't written by me it was left for me to find in the morning. I haven't engaged in any texting or talking since falling asleep that night. 

My brother won't say anything but I don't trust anyone on the other side not to. My husband could get a message right now saying what happened. I was the only married person with something to lose. I've been asked to text pictures. I haven't and never would.

I can change my number and say not to contact me again. I don't want any contact at all. Do I do that now or wait for my husband to tell me to? Now seems better, no? 

Did you communicate with the OM prior to the trip?Are you facebook friends? I was facebook friends but I'm not active on facebook. We didn't talk before the trip. There was a like on my comment that I was going, in the reunion group. I deleted them from my friends list.

I'm supposed to tell my husband who was bigger? That seems like one question to lie about.


----------



## Yeswecan

Here is the thing, 3 times in one day is not an accident or a "mistake". One and oops. I screwed up badly. Three times???? How do you believe this will look to your H?


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

In Absentia said:


> Just don't tell him... if you can live with it. You made a silly mistake and you won't do it again. If you tell him, your family and marriage will be destroyed and your children will suffer. I don't condone it, but think about your kids first. Lots of people won't agree with me over this, so I await the nuclear fallout now... <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_smile_big.png" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" ></a>


I agree in some respects, but the only problem is what if he finds out on his own? The fallout from an affair and then lying about it will make it 100x worse in his eyes. She is rolling the dice in that situation.


----------



## Mr. Nail

I'm sorry you are here going through this it must feel awful to be in your shoes. 
Sincerely


----------



## st232

Yeswecan said:


> Here is the thing, 3 times in one day is not an accident or a "mistake". One and oops. I screwed up badly. Three times???? How do you believe this will look to your H?


I know that it looks bad. It is bad. I don't know if it was 2 times or 3 times. It was back to back, fell asleep, once more, fell asleep. Three times start to finish so I say 3 times squeezed into 5 hours. My husband might have his own opinion on it.


----------



## Yeswecan

st232 said:


> I know that it looks bad. It is bad. I don't know if it was 2 times or 3 times. It was back to back, fell asleep, once more, fell asleep. Three times start to finish so I say 3 times squeezed into 5 hours. *My husband might have his own opinion on it.*


I can assure it will not be a favorable opinion. However, I'm sorry it has happened. Hope it works out for your marriage.


----------



## Andy1001

st232 said:


> I know that it looks bad. It is bad. I don't know if it was 2 times or 3 times. It was back to back, fell asleep, once more, fell asleep. Three times start to finish so I say 3 times squeezed into 5 hours. My husband might have his own opinion on it.


To drunkenly have sex with another man and calling it a mistake is stretching it in my opinion but I can see how it could happen. 
Three times? not a chance, and I’m beginning to think if he hadn’t left the room you would still be there.
Is the “thanks for the lay” note what’s really upsetting you or the fact that you were seen by other people. Did you believe what you were doing was somehow different than every other married person who cheats on their spouse,something “special”. I have news for you it wasn’t. Your just another statistic in the history of people cheating because they have the opportunity and they think they can get away with it. 
Would you honestly be this bothered if your brother hadn’t seen you?


----------



## jsmart

The fact that you left early and racked with guilt with what youâ€™ve done and want to confess is a positive in my book. It is always better to come clean on your own than for your BH to find out by someone that OM May have bragged to. 

The negarÃ*an negative is going to be that you explored something new with OM that you havenâ€™t done with your BH. You said it was something that your husband never showed an interest in doing. Iâ€™m guessing you had anal with this guy. Just know that just because he never asked for it or tried to get you to try it, doesnâ€™t mean he didnâ€™t fantasize about doing that with you. He may have feared you would reject him or judge him. 

If that was the 1st time you ever did that, it makes it that much worse because to the male mind, you would have been giving this guy a virgin spot. Which means you were being even more submissive to the OM than you are to him. So if he doesnâ€™t ask that question , maybe you shouldnâ€™t mention it.


----------



## Tobyboy

“Thanks for the lay”

Lol, I’m out on this one.


----------



## st232

Andy1001 said:


> To drunkenly have sex with another man and calling it a mistake is stretching it in my opinion but I can see how it could happen.
> Three times? not a chance, and I’m beginning to think if he hadn’t left the room you would still be there.
> Is the “thanks for the lay” note what’s really upsetting you or the fact that you were seen by other people. Did you believe what you were doing was somehow different than every other married person who cheats on their spouse,something “special”. I have news for you it wasn’t. Your just another statistic in the history of people cheating because they have the opportunity and they think they can get away with it.
> Would you honestly be this bothered if your brother hadn’t seen you?


Being drunk isnt an excuse. It made what I did easier. I know how I get when I'm drunk and chose to drink anyway. I was just as drunk when the sex started as when it finished. The last time by the time I woke up and came to he was already in me. The first two times were more like one long time. I couldn't have left the bed if I wanted to. I crawled to the bathroom to throw up... my proudest moment.

The note didn't feel good but that isn't why I'm upset... I cheated on my husband. I broke my vows 2 years after I made them. I wanted to take a bleach bath, go home and be with my husband and forget what I did. I don't want either of them. I'm not upset about a note I'm upset that I cheated on my husband. I could have predicted the note. I didn't want him 15 years ago and don't now either. 

It has nothing to do with my brother. We're twins. He's my best friend. He'd have known something was wrong without seeing anything.


----------



## mickybill

st232 said:


> I've been asked to text pictures. I haven't and never would.


When were you asked to do this?
Did you take pictures with the OM?
Or does he want new pictures?


----------



## MattMatt

In Absentia said:


> Of course... but sometimes confessions are good for nothing...  I'm not defending her actions, I wonder whether the kids should come first. We know what's wrong, but we don't know if putting a wrong right will be right.


Keeping a secret of that magnitude might break a person


----------



## TJW

st232 said:


> I can change my number and say not to contact me again. I don't want any contact at all. Do I do that now or wait for my husband to tell me to? Now seems better, no?


In my mind, now is better, yes. Just be able to prove to your husband what you said, exactly, word-for-word, and when you said it. 



st232 said:


> I'm supposed to tell my husband who was bigger? That seems like one question to lie about.


I'm hard-pressed to answer this. My core beliefs are not in favor of lying. But, I think sometimes the truth can be very cruel and detrimental. I suppose I have to say give the truth, if you are asked for it. You may consider praying that you aren't asked.

I, for one, was so humiliated and embarrassed by it that I developed psychological ED for a few months. And, in the final analysis, I chose to leave the relationship because sex with her became too painful emotionally. I came to the point where I abstained, refused, and avoided sex.

The really sad part of this is that I don't know it was really "truth". I think she may have said it as a "blame-shift", because couple years down the road, she asked me "....what if I were to tell you it was a lie....".... of course, now that she said that, I could have never been convinced that she lied.

I didn't ask.


----------



## Tasorundo

As a person that had a drunken ONS years ago, I understand what you mean about the number of times. I am not sure why you are getting so much grief for that, but I know that in my experience we had sex twice. It is similar to an alcoholic having a drink, knowing they need to stop but only able to find solace in another drink. Possibly the next drink wont be a lie and bring disaster. Somehow, it made some sort of sense, even though it is logically ridiculous.

When you tell your husband, I would focus on saying it was one night. Rather than multiple times in a day, because that is more of a portrait of what happened. If you start with it was 2-3 times, it will seem like an all day thing with breaks in between where you made new choices to do it again.


----------



## Casual Observer

Andy1001 said:


> To drunkenly have sex with another man and calling it a mistake is stretching it in my opinion but I can see how it could happen.
> Three times?


I'll disagree with the "3 times" being so much worse than once. If it were once and then she broke down and fled the room, fine, but otherwise what difference does it make if it was once or five times? The story sounds more sordid if it's multiple times and perhaps in different ways than with her husband, but I just don't see it making a difference in terms of breaking her promise to her husband. One guy, one night. Would it really seem better if she was drunk and had sex backed up against a trash can outside a bar?

The focus on the tawdry is instructive only in terms of thinking what might be going through her husband's mind. But on TAM it often seems to play out like a "No, you're more shameful than that" game. What matters most is how her husband will react, rather than whatever label people here choose to place on what she did. Admittedly though, there is a connection, since the gamut of reactions here might help prepare her for what happens next.


----------



## Yeswecan

Tasorundo said:


> As a person that had a drunken ONS years ago, I understand what you mean about the number of times. I am not sure why you are getting so much grief for that, but I know that in my experience we had sex twice. It is similar to an alcoholic having a drink, knowing they need to stop but only able to find solace in another drink. Possibly the next drink wont be a lie and bring disaster. Somehow, it made some sort of sense, even though it is logically ridiculous.
> 
> *When you tell your husband, I would focus on saying it was one night. Rather than multiple times in a day, because that is more of a portrait of what happened. * If you start with it was 2-3 times, it will seem like an all day thing with breaks in between where you made new choices to do it again.


Yeah, that will soften the blow. Sheesh.....


----------



## Tasorundo

Yeswecan said:


> Yeah, that will soften the blow. Sheesh.....


I don't think I said it would soften the blow really. I think it is a better way to describe what happened.


----------



## Yeswecan

Tasorundo said:


> I don't think I said it would soften the blow really. I think it is a better way to describe what happened.


The devil is in the details. Let's call it sugar coating. It goes down easier.


----------



## Casual Observer

st232 said:


> I'm not going to have sex with my husband until I have an STD test. My doctor said it's too early to test.


So I'll ask because nobody else will. Would it be normal that you'd be gone since the 19th, this is the 30th now, and there'd be no sex after you got back from the trip? I'm admittedly HD but still, makes me wonder if you've had issues in your marriage regarding HD/LD/whatever prior to this? Your husband's reaction to what went on could be ballistic if, for example, you've been reluctant to initiate or have sex in general, then you go off on this trip and...

Just seems a bit odd that you haven't mentioned any difficulty in keeping things at bay, sexually, until you get the blood test.


----------



## Tasorundo

Yeswecan said:


> The devil is in the details. Let's call it sugar coating. It goes down easier.


At this point, aren't we trying to help her feed her husband a **** sandwich the best way possible? I am not advocating for her to lie or hide anything.

She came here looking for help, it is pretty clear she already has enough in her feeling like ****, why do we need to berate her more?

People here are harping on 3 times!!! 3 times!!!! What a *****, you loved it and you want to do it again, you want to film it and make your husband watch. You want to do it again and run home so your husband can go down on you right after, because you are a dirty *****!

None of that is helpful in getting people to move to places of healing. I know that this place has a hard time thinking that the WS might be in pain, but along with being responsible, they are also in pain.


----------



## personofinterest

st232 said:


> I did some things I haven't with my husband but he's never asked or tried to do them. I know it will be the worst part though but I can't hide it. The cocky thanks for the lay note wasn't written by me it was left for me to find in the morning. I haven't engaged in any texting or talking since falling asleep that night.
> 
> My brother won't say anything but I don't trust anyone on the other side not to. My husband could get a message right now saying what happened. I was the only married person with something to lose. I've been asked to text pictures. I haven't and never would.
> 
> I can change my number and say not to contact me again. I don't want any contact at all. Do I do that now or wait for my husband to tell me to? Now seems better, no?
> 
> Did you communicate with the OM prior to the trip?Are you facebook friends? I was facebook friends but I'm not active on facebook. We didn't talk before the trip. There was a like on my comment that I was going, in the reunion group. I deleted them from my friends list.
> 
> I'm supposed to tell my husband who was bigger? That seems like one question to lie about.


Do NOT take any action before telling your husband.

ANY action you take before then will be seen as deception.


----------



## personofinterest

"depriving the BS of critical information, denying him his right to make a decision based on the whole truth, not some watered down lie."

Are you mis understanding intentionally? No one has said the betrayed spouse should be deprived of information. What we are saying is that he gets to decide how much he wants to know. There is no reason to preemptively write a blow-by-blow sex of novel. Know… there is not. However, she should answer every question that he asks.


----------



## st232

mickybill said:


> When were you asked to do this?
> Did you take pictures with the OM?
> Or does he want new pictures?


He's texted me two days later to take a naked picture and send it to him. I did NOT take pictures with anyone. I understand I suck as a wife but that's lower than I'd go. Just no.


----------



## personofinterest

"I'm supposed to tell my husband who was bigger? That seems like one question to lie about."

Only if he asks

I do not mean to sound jaded Kama but there are some betrayed husbands on forums who will tell you to do things that are intentionally destructive because they want your husband to leave you. Every wayward wife is a proxy for their own.


----------



## st232

Casual Observer said:


> So I'll ask because nobody else will. Would it be normal that you'd be gone since the 19th, this is the 30th now, and there'd be no sex after you got back from the trip? I'm admittedly HD but still, makes me wonder if you've had issues in your marriage regarding HD/LD/whatever prior to this? Your husband's reaction to what went on could be ballistic if, for example, you've been reluctant to initiate or have sex in general, then you go off on this trip and...
> 
> Just seems a bit odd that you haven't mentioned any difficulty in keeping things at bay, sexually, until you get the blood test.


My husband prefers kleenex. We have sex once or twice a month. So no he hasn't noticed.


----------



## StillSearching

OP, I suggest you talk to your brother. Then tell your husband EVERYTHING he asks for.

"I don't want to give him the specific sexual details... I've asked for those details in my past and I regret doing that. Do I write the timeline before I talk to him? It has to be a play by play of that day? I'm not making a play by play of the sex..."

What you asked for in your past situation has NO bearing on this event at all.
Men think much differently than women.
I would not withhold anything he asked for......good luck.


----------



## StillSearching

st232 said:


> *My husband prefers kleenex*. We have sex once or twice a month. So no he hasn't noticed.


He'll be using it a little differently now.....


----------



## st232

My MIL wants to take my boys for the weekend so that's when I have to tell my husband. I'm shaking from thinking about it. I flat out say what I did? No build up? I hate myself...


----------



## Deejo

@st232

Lets take a step back from the dramatics for a moment.

Can you live with not telling him? Doesn't seem that way based upon your posting. Seems apparent you are remorseful.

If and when you are going to tell him, have a plan. If he wants you to leave, I suggest you know where you are going to go.

Waiting makes it worse. How is your behavior around your husband? Does he think you seem 'off'? 

Your post reminds me of a similar circumstance a number of years ago. Female poster, drunk, one night stand. She couldn't even really account for why she made the choice she did. That didn't sit very well with most here, but I believe it was the truth.

Affairs almost always have a way of finding the light of day. Be it sooner, or much, much, later. Years later ... impact on the betrayed spouse will always be as if it happened yesterday.

You fundamentally have 2 choices.

You suck up your guilt, live with it, and go be the best partner you can be to your spouse ... and hope the truth never comes out. (You will have to be the judge of how likely that is)

Or you own what you did, you tell your spouse what happened, and you deal with those consequences.

One choice gives you a clean slate ... that will be very, very, painful for a good long while. The other gives you the facade of a clean slate, one that you will always have to wonder if it will remain that way.

Regardless of the choice you make, you will get through it. You have to. You have young children counting on the fact that you will.


----------



## Yeswecan

personofinterest said:


> "depriving the BS of critical information, denying him his right to make a decision based on the whole truth, not some watered down lie."
> 
> Are you mis understanding intentionally? No one has said the betrayed spouse should be deprived of information. What we are saying is that he gets to decide how much he wants to know. *There is no reason to preemptively write a blow-by-blow sex of novel.* Know… there is not. However, she should answer every question that he asks.


The novel is written if BH requests the novel.


----------



## Yeswecan

st232 said:


> My MIL wants to take my boys for the weekend so that's when I have to tell my husband. I'm shaking from thinking about it. I flat out say what I did? No build up? I hate myself...


It is a good time to tell all while the kids are away. Yes, sit your H down and state the facts. No beating around the bush. No half truths. Be prepared for your H reaction.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

personofinterest said:


> "depriving the BS of critical information, denying him his right to make a decision based on the whole truth, not some watered down lie."
> 
> Are you mis understanding intentionally? No one has said the betrayed spouse should be deprived of information. What we are saying is that he gets to decide how much he wants to know. There is no reason to preemptively write a blow-by-blow sex of novel. Know… there is not. However, she should answer every question that he asks.


I get that. If he doesn't want to know or thinks that level of detail need not be a part of his decision, that's entirely up to him. 

There are just too many "even if you tell him about the affair, don't tell him about this aspect of it" posts, made without regard to his wants or needs. The focus in those posts was squarely on withholding certain aspects of the issue.


----------



## personofinterest

st232 said:


> Casual Observer said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I'll ask because nobody else will. Would it be normal that you'd be gone since the 19th, this is the 30th now, and there'd be no sex after you got back from the trip? I'm admittedly HD but still, makes me wonder if you've had issues in your marriage regarding HD/LD/whatever prior to this? Your husband's reaction to what went on could be ballistic if, for example, you've been reluctant to initiate or have sex in general, then you go off on this trip and...
> 
> Just seems a bit odd that you haven't mentioned any difficulty in keeping things at bay, sexually, until you get the blood test.
> 
> 
> 
> My husband prefers kleenex. We have sex once or twice a month. So no he hasn't noticed.
Click to expand...

 The way you worded this gives me the idea that sex may be a source of frustration in your marriage. At some point, unless your husband just walks away at the very beginning, he will probably try to take some responsibility for your choices if you are high drive and he has not been having sex with you. It would be easy to let him do that period don't let him do that period any sexual issues in your marriage are separate from your choice to cheat. I lived with a basically a sexual husband. I know how much it hurts. But do not let that mitigate your choices. It does both you and your husband a great disservice.


----------



## Imajerk17

Deejo said:


> @st232
> 
> Lets take a step back from the dramatics for a moment.
> 
> Can you live with not telling him? Doesn't seem that way based upon your posting. Seems apparent you are remorseful.
> 
> If and when you are going to tell him, have a plan. If he wants you to leave, I suggest you know where you are going to go.
> 
> Waiting makes it worse. How is your behavior around your husband? Does he think you seem 'off'?
> 
> Your post reminds me of a similar circumstance a number of years ago. Female poster, drunk, one night stand. She couldn't even really account for why she made the choice she did. That didn't sit very well with most here, but I believe it was the truth.
> 
> Affairs almost always have a way of finding the light of day. Be it sooner, or much, much, later. Years later ... impact on the betrayed spouse will always be as if it happened yesterday.
> 
> You fundamentally have 2 choices.
> 
> You suck up your guilt, live with it, and go be the best partner you can be to your spouse ... and hope the truth never comes out. (You will have to be the judge of how likely that is)
> 
> Or you own what you did, you tell your spouse what happened, and you deal with those consequences.
> 
> One choice gives you a clean slate ... that will be very, very, painful for a good long while. The other gives you the facade of a clean slate, one that you will always have to wonder if it will remain that way.
> 
> Regardless of the choice you make, you will get through it. You have to. You have young children counting on the fact that you will.


This post ignores the fact that her husband has every right to know what happened. She doesn't really have a "choice" of whether to tell him or not.


----------



## StillSearching

st232 said:


> My MIL wants to take my boys for the weekend so that's when I have to tell my husband. I'm shaking from thinking about it. I flat out say what I did? No build up? I hate myself...


My wife told me the OM was bigger....It devastates me even today.
I've been divorced over a year now...

I really hate to say this....but yes....Lie about it, if it's true. Tell him a little smaller. 
Don't hesitate when he asks...be ready. He will probably ask. 
Do not say I don't remember or not really.

See there are things we can fix as men.....that's not one them. 

It haunts me to this day...


----------



## mickybill

st232 said:


> He's texted me two days later to take a naked picture and send it to him. I did NOT take pictures with anyone. I understand I suck as a wife but that's lower than I'd go. Just no.


It's good that there are no pictures, this OM sounds kind like an A hole, from the note and from having sex with you when you were passed out.
If there were pics he might send to your H, just to be an A hole. There are threads where trophy pictures turn up after the fact.

They say when you are going through hell to keep going. Tell the truth, don;t blame him even for your 2 x month sex life.


----------



## personofinterest

st232 said:


> My MIL wants to take my boys for the weekend so that's when I have to tell my husband. I'm shaking from thinking about it. I flat out say what I did? No build up? I hate myself...


 Yes. Tell him in a straight forward and gentle manner. Do not spend 5 minutes giving background information. That is just torture, and he will figure out what is coming halfway through it. Be honest, be humble, and backup your remercie with action.


----------



## Imajerk17

st232 said:


> My MIL wants to take my boys for the weekend so that's when I have to tell my husband. I'm shaking from thinking about it. I flat out say what I did? No build up? I hate myself...


Can you write a letter and then sit him down and give him the letter to read?


----------



## personofinterest

Yeswecan said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> "depriving the BS of critical information, denying him his right to make a decision based on the whole truth, not some watered down lie."
> 
> Are you mis understanding intentionally? No one has said the betrayed spouse should be deprived of information. What we are saying is that he gets to decide how much he wants to know. *There is no reason to preemptively write a blow-by-blow sex of novel.* Know… there is not. However, she should answer every question that he asks.
> 
> 
> 
> The novel is written if BH requests the novel.
Click to expand...

 Well, duh, am I speaking Chinese? I think that has been made abundantly clear.


----------



## TAMAT

ST232,

Generally men are most interested in the sexual details, so please don't lie, minimize or omit. Your H may sense your dishonesty and never recover.

Please don't even kiss your H you are putting him at risk for oral and throat cancer.
https://oralcancerfoundation.org/understanding/hpv/hpv-oral-cancer-facts/

Your H may have a very hard time understanding how you can have a ONS but sex with him only once or twice a month.

Offer to take a polygraph to assure him there are not more affairs and that he has the whole truth.


----------



## personofinterest

TAMAT said:


> ST232,
> 
> Generally men are most interested in the sexual details, so please don't lie, minimize or omit. Your H may sense your dishonesty and never recover.
> 
> Please don't even kiss your H you are putting him at risk for oral and throat cancer.
> https://oralcancerfoundation.org/understanding/hpv/hpv-oral-cancer-facts/
> 
> Your H may have a very hard time understanding how you can have a ONS but sex with him only once or twice a month.
> 
> Offer to take a polygraph to assure him there are not more affairs and that he has the whole truth.



Yes, tell him whatever he asks.

If one read her comment about her husband preferring Kleenex, one can logically infer that her husband is the one not interested in having sex.

I get that cheating wives are triggering, but I swear emotion clouds people's objective reading skills.
1st, yes definitely tell him everything he asks. 2nd, if one reads her


----------



## wilson

Maybe you should consider this an exit affair. Something was missing in your heart and your relationship which enabled you to do this. And add in the lack of intimacy in your relationship and it's hard to see the point of continuing the marriage. Those are some pretty terrible indicators for the future of the relationship. Even in the best case, just improving that intimacy problem would be extremely difficult. Add in the cheating and there's just too much bad stuff going on. Take this as a sign it's not working out and move on to other things. It will take years to recover from cheating, but what's the point? Even if you do, I get the feeling that some other problem is going to break you guys up. Ending this and starting on new paths may be the best thing for everyone.


----------



## Deejo

Imajerk17 said:


> This post ignores the fact that her husband has every right to know what happened. She doesn't really have a "choice" of whether to tell him or not.


I dig your username.


----------



## Noble1

Sorry to hear about the situation that you are in.

You are being given some great advice on here to help you and your husband through the first part of this.

Some comments you made in posts after seem to indicate that your marriage, at least on the intimate side of things, is not so good.

As it was mentioned, I can see how you got yourself into this situation when many factors are considered and come into play.


The bottom line is that you did cheat on your marriage and husband and he does have the right to know about it from you.

It is natural to feel scared about telling him and about the future after that.

You said you were cheated on before so you will have at least some idea of what he is going to go through.

Unfortunately, it is up to you to make things as easy as possible for your husband to hear about this and then the both of you need to decide how to move forward.

Good luck.


----------



## TBT

Whether or not you've had sex with your husband since your return should figure into the choice you finally make. You've had unprotected sex and god only knows what the OM has been up to for the last 10 years. STD testing is necessary.


----------



## Steelman

StillSearching said:


> My wife told me the OM was bigger....It devastates me even today.
> I've been divorced over a year now...
> 
> I really hate to say this....but yes....Lie about it, if it's true. Tell him a little smaller.
> Don't hesitate when he asks...be ready. He will probably ask.
> Do not say I don't remember or not really.
> 
> See there are things we can fix as men.....that's not one them.
> 
> It haunts me to this day...


You got that right. There has to be some lying involved, not matter what people want to believe.

Lie about the size, lie about the number of times, and where things (ahem) went.

Sorry- those are things a guy can't get over.


----------



## Yeswecan

personofinterest said:


> Well, duh, am I speaking Chinese? I think that has been made abundantly clear.


No, no I don't believe it abundantly clear.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

I'm speculating here, so please confirm or redirect as required for understanding.

1. You said you have sex with your husband once or twice a month. That's a pretty low rate of physical intimacy.

2. You said your husband prefers kleenex, which is indicative of a lack of desire for you

3. You said (of the adulterous act) it felt good (at the time). 

Putting those all together, it sounds like you aren't getting enough physical attention in your marriage and it felt good that someone wanted you physically. The desire to be desired is very powerful, and without it, one can easily feel like there is a gaping hole in ones life. Throw in a party atmosphere, old flames, and a good dose of alcohol, and it's gonna' be easier to abandon ones vows when the marriage doesn't feel like it's on solid ground to begin with. 

If this is all so, I think we all agree that it's still no justification for the adultery, but it does help explain the context. 

The key for you is that, if that is the case, you don't open with that, and if and when it comes up further down the line, you do everything in you power to keep it from coming across as an excuse for your actions or any kind of blame shifting.


----------



## TJW

Steelman said:


> Sorry- those are things a guy can't get over.


The problem is, the OP is going to know she lied to her husband. And, her husband probably knows her better than any other person alive. She will most likely not be able to lie to him without him knowing it. Her body language is going to become a flashing neon sign.

And, when her husband knows she's lying, all the basis of trust upon which any reconciliation could be reached is destroyed. If she lied about this, then the veracity of everything she said comes into dispute.

This is one of those damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't things which are brought on by adultery. It's likely that the marriage will be ruined whether truth or lie is given as an answer. One can only hope her husband doesn't ask.

If her husband does ask, she has the opportunity to additionally point out that his penis size was not a reason why she cheated, and is clearly not a reason why she remained in the affair, because she stopped the affair immediately. His penis size is not, therefore, any factor worthy of consideration in their future life together.

If she "volunteers" the information, not only "he's bigger" but "size does matter" has now been said.

1 Peter 3:17 (KJV)

_For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
_

It will be better for the OP, going forward, if she loses her marriage, that she lost it because she refused to continue in evil than because she tried to engage in further evil.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

Deejo said:


> @st232
> 
> Lets take a step back from the dramatics for a moment.
> 
> Can you live with not telling him? Doesn't seem that way based upon your posting. Seems apparent you are remorseful.
> 
> If and when you are going to tell him, have a plan. If he wants you to leave, I suggest you know where you are going to go.
> 
> Waiting makes it worse. How is your behavior around your husband? Does he think you seem 'off'?
> 
> Your post reminds me of a similar circumstance a number of years ago. Female poster, drunk, one night stand. She couldn't even really account for why she made the choice she did. That didn't sit very well with most here, but I believe it was the truth.
> 
> Affairs almost always have a way of finding the light of day. Be it sooner, or much, much, later. Years later ... impact on the betrayed spouse will always be as if it happened yesterday.
> 
> You fundamentally have 2 choices.
> 
> You suck up your guilt, live with it, and go be the best partner you can be to your spouse ... and hope the truth never comes out. (You will have to be the judge of how likely that is)
> 
> Or you own what you did, you tell your spouse what happened, and you deal with those consequences.
> 
> One choice gives you a clean slate ... that will be very, very, painful for a good long while. The other gives you the facade of a clean slate, one that you will always have to wonder if it will remain that way.
> 
> Regardless of the choice you make, you will get through it. You have to. You have young children counting on the fact that you will.


I don't often post on these kinds of threads but this quoted post addresses the options well.

I would like to add that by getting your poor choice out in the open you will take back some control of a very bad situation as the OM can forever hold your indiscretion over your head until you break, forever afraid that if you do keep it silent for the time you can (not in your control), you will suffer constantly in fear of the truth being disclosed.

Whatever your weakness or wherever it lies, and that you really do not know why is a grey you must resolve.

No more alcohol... sans, fini, fini, terminé, accompli, réalisé, done.

Get yourself into individual counseling immediately... understand why your lack of control in this desire took you there.

As @Deejo said, you will get through this, understand that cause and effect is going to play rough with you for a bit but as the change took you into a tough time, change will also bring you back out... understand and accept where you are as you walk back to the middle.

Be strong... I do wish you strength as you make some very hard decisions.


----------



## personofinterest

Yeswecan said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, duh, am I speaking Chinese? I think that has been made abundantly clear.
> 
> 
> 
> No, no I don't believe it abundantly clear.
Click to expand...

 Then you are choosing to be obtuse because of your own baggage. That's not my problem, it is yours.


----------



## alte Dame

I'm in the camp that you have to tell him. Be very prepared when you do it. Have a timeline ready and be open to answering any/every question he might have. Be prepared for various reactions - explosive anger; silence; leaving the house, etc. Make sure you have read McDonald's 'How to Help your Spouse Heal from your Affair' and follow the advice the author gives.

You have destroyed the marriage as you knew it, whether you tell or stay quiet. You can't take it back. You just can't. So understand that it is what it is and you have to deal with the consequences. Many people threaten and/or destroy their relationships with infidelity. Your BH deserves the truth of his own life, and you need to accept the results of your actions. Sad, but true.


----------



## personofinterest

wilson said:


> Maybe you should consider this an exit affair. Something was missing in your heart and your relationship which enabled you to do this. And add in the lack of intimacy in your relationship and it's hard to see the point of continuing the marriage. Those are some pretty terrible indicators for the future of the relationship. Even in the best case, just improving that intimacy problem would be extremely difficult. Add in the cheating and there's just too much bad stuff going on. Take this as a sign it's not working out and move on to other things. It will take years to recover from cheating, but what's the point? Even if you do, I get the feeling that some other problem is going to break you guys up. Ending this and starting on new paths may be the best thing for everyone.


 This advice is absolutely ridiculous. It is obvious that the original poster and loves her husband.


----------



## michzz

I have not read through all the pages of this thread. However, I will warn you that you need to get tested for STIs immediately and preferably get the results before being intimate with your husband.

Be sure to include HPV testing in addition to the usual heavy hitters you can block with condom use. 

BTW, I don't know if anyone already asked. Did you use a condom? 

You need to be honest with your husband and NOT put any blame on him for your huge, lapse.

If he chooses to leave you, well, that's that.

If he chooses to stay? consider that to be an incredible gift.

BTW 2, if your STI test comes up positive for any kind of infection, you must immediately tell your husband for obvious reasons.


----------



## As'laDain

OP, 

When it comes to lying, all these guys telling you to lie about it prefer comfortable lies to painful truth. I value truth over everything, and am not at all afraid of going through agony for a while. I know the pain will eventually end. 

You know your husband better than anyone. I would suggest honesty regardless, but that is because i place a very high value on truth and honesty. If your husband is like that, then tell him. If YOU are like that, then DEFINITELY tell him. Otherwise, it will erode you. 

My wife was completely honest with me, and remorseful. She was willing to do whatever i asked. I do not regret reconciliation at all.


----------



## wilson

personofinterest said:


> This advice is absolutely ridiculous. It is obvious that the original poster and loves her husband.


I'm sure she does love him, but consider how few stories on TAM about cheating or sexual incompatibility that have a happy ending. They are quite rare. In her case, we have both problems together. Either problem alone is very hard to overcome. I'm just being realistic. Don't go into this thinking it's going to be easy to fix. It's going to be impossibly hard and success is uncertain no matter how hard you work at it. At this point, there is infidelity and the marriage almost qualifies as sexless. Love or not, at some point you need to look at the relationship and see if it's going to work out or not.


----------



## personofinterest

wilson said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> This advice is absolutely ridiculous. It is obvious that the original poster and loves her husband.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure she does love him, but consider how few stories on TAM about cheating or sexual incompatibility that have a happy ending. They are quite rare. In her case, we have both problems together. Either problem alone is very hard to overcome. I'm just being realistic. Don't go into this thinking it's going to be easy to fix. It's going to be impossibly hard and success is uncertain no matter how hard you work at it. At this point, there is infidelity and the marriage almost qualifies as sexless. Love or not, at some point you need to look at the relationship and see if it's going to work out or not.
Click to expand...

As soon as I read a post of hers expecting it to be easy, I'll be sure to point that out.


----------



## StillSearching

As'laDain said:


> OP,
> 
> When it comes to lying, all these guys telling you to lie about it prefer comfortable lies to painful truth. I value truth over everything, and am not at all afraid of going through agony for a while. I know the pain will eventually end.
> 
> You know your husband better than anyone. I would suggest honesty regardless, but that is because i place a very high value on truth and honesty. If your husband is like that, then tell him. If YOU are like that, then DEFINITELY tell him. Otherwise, it will erode you.
> 
> My wife was completely honest with me, and remorseful. She was willing to do whatever i asked. I do not regret reconciliation at all.


I feel ya, but did your wife tell you the OM was bigger? 
That's the only lie that still haunts me today.


----------



## Robert22205

Did you receive my private message? 

Are both children his?

You don't have to give him the sexual details immediately. Tell him your experience with the details and suggest delaying until he sees an IC first to help him handle the details. 

Lying to him is not an option because he may eventually insist you take a polygraph test. It's true the details could cost you your marriage - but it's more likely that getting caught later withholding details will do even more damage to your marriage.

Were you in contact with the OM prior to your trip?
For example, facebook friends?

You were in town for 4-5 days before the party (sex). How often did you see or text or call the OM prior to the party?
Did the OM expect in advance that you would be his date at the party or was he expecting to see you?

I ask because I think your husband will eventually ask (and confirm with a polygraph test).


----------



## Robert22205

I'm not saying this to hurt your feelings but good men don't have sex with another man's wife. Good men don't contribute or participate in destroying a marriage with young kids. 

From the note the OM sent (and the fact that he's single and doesn't need discretion) he's likely already bragged to at least one of your classmates (and by know many people know). This isn't a secret.


----------



## personofinterest

Robert22205 said:


> Did you receive my private message?
> 
> Are both children his?
> 
> You don't have to give him the sexual details immediately. Tell him your experience with the details and suggest delaying until he sees an IC first to help him handle the details.
> 
> Lying to him is not an option because he may eventually insist you take a polygraph test. It's true the details could cost you your marriage - but it's more likely that getting caught later withholding details will do even more damage to your marriage.
> 
> Were you in contact with the OM prior to your trip?
> For example, facebook friends?
> 
> You were in town for 4-5 days before the party (sex). How often did you see or text or call the OM prior to the party?
> Did the OM expect in advance that you would be his date at the party or was he expecting to see you?
> 
> I ask because I think your husband will eventually ask (and confirm with a polygraph test).


No man should be PMing a WW on this forum.


----------



## As'laDain

StillSearching said:


> I feel ya, but did your wife tell you the OM was bigger?
> That's the only lie that still haunts me today.


at one point, yes. it would have bothered me if she told me that in order to try to hurt me, because of the intention behind it, but not because of the facts being what they are. it also probably would bother me more if i were not able to satisfy my wife in bed, but i am, so i let it go. 

to be fair, i do not emotionally respond to things the same way most people do.


----------



## stillthinking

Tell him. Whatever he asks you answer. Truthfully.

He may yell. Scream. Cry. Call you names. File for divorce. Have the kids tested to make sure they are his. Everything you say will be suspect. His entire life with you will now be in doubt. The list goes on and on.

You wanted orgasms and some anal. So be it. You had your fun.

Now Own It.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

personofinterest said:


> wilson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you should consider this an exit affair. Something was missing in your heart and your relationship which enabled you to do this. And add in the lack of intimacy in your relationship and it's hard to see the point of continuing the marriage. Those are some pretty terrible indicators for the future of the relationship. Even in the best case, just improving that intimacy problem would be extremely difficult. Add in the cheating and there's just too much bad stuff going on. Take this as a sign it's not working out and move on to other things. It will take years to recover from cheating, but what's the point? Even if you do, I get the feeling that some other problem is going to break you guys up. Ending this and starting on new paths may be the best thing for everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> This advice is absolutely ridiculous. It is obvious that the original poster and loves her husband.
Click to expand...

It is not ridiculous. Love is one thing...in love is another. And guilt does not equal love. In other words, don't waste his time with reconciliation ideas if she is one foot in and one foot out. Give him an amicable divorce and move along.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

dreamer2017 said:


> Dear ST232,
> 
> You must understand that good people can sometimes make bad decisions. I do believe you are a good person because you are being torn apart by your conscience. It is my opinion, in your heart, you couldn’t withhold telling your husband about the affair because that is not the type of person you are regardless of the outcome. SunCMars has given you a short but a descriptive process in how to proceed. I’m hoping for the best for you and your family.
> 
> Many Blessings,
> Dreamer


You will need to tell him. I agree with the above post. Your conscience is like a shaken can of soda ready to explode from the guilt you feel. You need to confess for your benefit also.


----------



## personofinterest

OP, if you go to a poster's profile page, there is an option to add them to your ignore list. I would advise doing this with abusive posters.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

st232 said:


> The note didn't feel good but that isn't why I'm upset... I cheated on my husband. I broke my vows 2 years after I made them. I wanted to take a bleach bath, go home and be with my husband and forget what I did. * I don't want either of them*.


'Splain this??


----------



## MattMatt

personofinterest said:


> OP, if you go to a poster's profile page, there is an option to add them to your ignore list. I would advise doing this with abusive posters.


Or use the report icon so that the Moderation team can take action.

At 9.34am BST I placed a warning about what would happen if people abused the OP.

The warning was ignored and the result is that bans have been instigated.


----------



## personofinterest

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> st232 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The note didn't feel good but that isn't why I'm upset... I cheated on my husband. I broke my vows 2 years after I made them. I wanted to take a bleach bath, go home and be with my husband and forget what I did. * I don't want either of them*.
> 
> 
> 
> 'Splain this??
Click to expand...

It's not hard. She wasn't upset about the note OR that her brother so her. She was upset about what she did. She was answering a question asking if she was truly upset about the note or her brother seeing her. Her answer indicated it wasn't t either.

It is VERY easy to see in her wording and writing that she was answering very emotionally and typing quickly. There is NOTHING in the context of her post OR the question she was answering to indicate she was saying she doesn't want either man.

But it is predictably clear why several posters don't see that and have latched onto it.


----------



## personofinterest

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> dreamer2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear ST232,
> 
> You must understand that good people can sometimes make bad decisions. I do believe you are a good person because you are being torn apart by your conscience. It is my opinion, in your heart, you couldn’t withhold telling your husband about the affair because that is not the type of person you are regardless of the outcome. SunCMars has given you a short but a descriptive process in how to proceed. I’m hoping for the best for you and your family.
> 
> Many Blessings,
> Dreamer
> 
> 
> 
> You will need to tell him. I agree with the above post. Your conscience is like a shaken can of soda ready to explode from the guilt you feel. You need to confess for your benefit also.
Click to expand...

Yes, and this is actually a good thing. The fact that the OP is so upset and has not blamed her husband at all are good signs.


----------



## notmyjamie

Yes, you allowed yourself to get way too drunk in a vulnerable place. But I am bothered by your statement that you "woke up" when he was already inside you and you aren't really sure how many actual times you had sex. This is pretty sketchy. You must have been pretty drunk to be so bad that you wouldn't have been able to leave the bed if you had tried. Do you normally drink this much or get this drunk? The last time someone told me a story like this she had been drugged at a party. She insisted that wasn't case "I was just drunk" but she had done something completely out of character for her. I don't really know you so I can't say if that's true about you but your statement that you wanted to take a bath in bleach tells me it is very out of your character to do something like this. Her test came out positive. That test saved her relationship. 

Unfortunately it might be too late for you to get tested. You would have to go and get a follicle test immediately and it may still be too late. This may have just been a case of you being way too drunk. But no decent guy would sleep with a woman who was too drunk to leave the bed if she wanted to so this guy is a POS whether you were drugged or not. 

While I think your husband is still going to feel extremely betrayed these details might help? I don't know...a former BH will know more than me. 

In any case, super drunk or drugged I'm sorry for your situation. I admire that you are here trying to figure out the right thing to do for your husband.


----------



## MattMatt

And the use of drugs like this is more common than you might think. Even against males by females, for that matter.


----------



## ReformedHubby

stillthinking said:


> Tell him. Whatever he asks you answer. Truthfully.
> 
> He may yell. Scream. Cry. Call you names. File for divorce. Have the kids tested to make sure they are his. Everything you say will be suspect. His entire life with you will now be in doubt. The list goes on and on.
> 
> *You wanted orgasms and some anal. So be it. You had your fun.
> *
> Now Own It.


Was this part of your post necessary?


----------



## stillthinking

GoldenR said:


> Here's what i see...
> 
> Your H has sex you once a month, twice if you're lucky. The rest of the month, he "spanks hank". He doesn't go with you to your reunion. You see a chance to have the wild monkey sex that you're missing, and you have sex more times in one night, unprotected, with your boyfriend than you do in a month with your H.
> 
> Then you feel guilty.
> 
> My advice? Divorce your H. You won't even have to tell him of your cheating if you don't want to. I say this bc I think the odds of your sex life changing with your H are next to zero, as he will want you even less now that you're tainted by your boyfriend. With less sex than ever, the chance of cheating again will go higher. And now that vyou've already tasted that forbidden fruit and were so into it you didn't stop after one time, you went back for seconds and thirds, you will want more.
> 
> Just divorce him.


It’s an option. This way she could spin it as she is leaving a sex starved marriage. Better than being known as a cheater. It makes the husband out as the problem. And she is free to party, with the alimony paying for it.


----------



## rugswept

st232 - wow, this is getting serious. 

with what you have admitted to in this thread over your posts, there is a very good chance your M won't survive this betrayal. 
there are parts of it that put it into the extreme area (the AP had you do things you never did with your BH). 
the situation where you're not sure how many times you had sex (he was inside you... that might be a violation of law since there was no consent). this shows you were completely out of control and it went over hours. it wasn't just an urge and done. 

you're in the worst of places. 
here are the choices 
1. you say nothing - he will eventually find out since you were in an area that was more watched than you think. he'll then be told by someone who is just out there. in this case, you'll be a deceitful, fake cheating POS as far as he's concerned. everything of your marriage from "that day" forward will be a big lie. even if that is 10 years from now. and you live with extreme guilt which will get worse. 
2. you say some things and admit to something and then his agony and his response lead to trickle truth where he finds the real depth of the betrayal and is destroyed by it and your word is worthless to him and he feels he doesn't know you at all. not even a little. 
3. you tell him up front, close to everything. in this case the shock may end your M. he might be so wounded he can never recover. 

it's not even clear from the way you wrote what you did if this involved only one partner. you sounded sketchy. 

i really believe that you're a good person in the large. you ended up going backward in time, at the wrong time and were swept up with a combination of need, fulfillment of adolescent fantasy and a false sense of security in a community you were once part of. you had felt, for the moment, that you had "come home" and you just let it all go. you had become a mindless adolescent. 

good luck, st232. this is a really tough one. i wish you well. i do hope you just plain tell him, and in his pain and anguish (that will be enormous), that he finds a way to accept he cannot change what happened and has the sense that you really are basically good and made some really choices that led to all this, and that he can forgive you in some way and continue with you.


----------



## Decorum

GoldenR said:


> Here's what i see...
> 
> Your H has sex you once a month, twice if you're lucky. The rest of the month, he "spanks hank". He doesn't go with you to your reunion. You see a chance to have the wild monkey sex that you're missing, and you have sex more times in one night, unprotected, with your boyfriend than you do in a month with your H.
> 
> Then you feel guilty.
> 
> My advice? Divorce your H. You won't even have to tell him of your cheating if you don't want to. I say this bc I think the odds of your sex life changing with your H are next to zero, as he will want you even less now that you're tainted by your boyfriend. With less sex than ever, the chance of cheating again will go higher. And now that vyou've already tasted that forbidden fruit and were so into it you didn't stop after one time, you went back for seconds and thirds, you will want more.
> 
> Just divorce him.


Exactly!!!


----------



## personofinterest

"it's not even clear from the way you wrote what you did if this involved only one partner. you sounded sketchy. "

NOTHING in her post suggests multiple partners.

Nothing

OP, I'm a woman. If you want to PM, I'll be glad to give you support. If I stay on this thread I'll get banned.


----------



## Decorum

wilson said:


> Maybe you should consider this an exit affair. Something was missing in your heart and your relationship which enabled you to do this. And add in the lack of intimacy in your relationship and it's hard to see the point of continuing the marriage. Those are some pretty terrible indicators for the future of the relationship. Even in the best case, just improving that intimacy problem would be extremely difficult. Add in the cheating and there's just too much bad stuff going on. Take this as a sign it's not working out and move on to other things. It will take years to recover from cheating, but what's the point? Even if you do, I get the feeling that some other problem is going to break you guys up. Ending this and starting on new paths may be the best thing for everyone.


Exactly!!!


----------



## notmyjamie

personofinterest said:


> "it's not even clear from the way you wrote what you did if this involved only one partner. you sounded sketchy. "
> 
> NOTHING in her post suggests multiple partners.
> 
> Nothing
> 
> OP, I'm a woman. If you want to PM, I'll be glad to give you support. If I stay on this thread I'll get banned.


Her recollections of the night sound sketchy because she doesn't remember so much of it. The person that suggests is sketchy is the man who had sex with her when she was obviously way too drunk to legally consent. 
@st232 I am also a woman. Feel free to PM me as well if you need more private support.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

personofinterest said:


> Yes, and this is actually a good thing. The fact that the OP is so upset and has not blamed her husband at all are good signs.


While I generally find this site, and most posters, helpful, there is a disturbing undertone in this thread.

I say this as someone who is as hard on waywards as anyone...

.... but....

When we're slamming waywards on here, it's because they are constantly making excuses, blame shifting, and rug sweeping. We always tell them there can be no mercy, no reconciliation, no repentance, and no freedom from their sin until they stop all that.

Now, we have a poster who is meeting all those criteria, owning her actions, and clearly not blaming anybody else for what she did.... even though it sounds like she could if she wanted to (hubby would rather toss of into a kleenex and only has sex with her once or twice a month). Yet despite all the potential mitigating circumstances, she has not once linked them to her actions or tried to use them as excuses. 

If an honestly remorseful, repentant, and genuinely more concerned for her betrayed spouse than her wayward self new member shows up and all some can do is continue the bash fest, what are we all even doing here in the first place? 

(apologies to those who have truly tried to help; above paragraph is not pointed at you).


----------



## VladDracul

st, since you came here for advice and to vent, why don't you go ahead and tell us why your interest level in your husband and marriage is at the low end of the scale. (Reading between the lines and you inviting the guy back to your hotel room) You knew what the night was going to be like when you and this guy were headed by to your room. Am I wrong in saying you were both "handsy pansy" before the key was in the hotel room door. Hey, I been around long enough to know how full of anticipation you guys were when you exited the elevator and headed toward your room. Seems like it take forever to walk that few yards. May as well fess up st. We all know the score.
If he leaves you, are you going to be hear broken because he's no longer around, or heat broken because you cheated and this caused the end of your marriage? If you choose to answer either question, think about it before you do.


----------



## GoldenR

I don't doubt OP's sincerity. 

I honestly think if a guy would rather jerk off instead of having sex with his wife, that he doesn't deserve to be married. 

OP now knows what she's been missing. 

They both need to be free of each other.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Your husband is going to wonder about the details and may or may not ask for them. If he doesn't it will only be because he cannot stand the pain.

The fact that you did something with the POSOM that you did not do with him is going to kill him (whether he asked for it or not). This is why I asked about it. Be prepared for that and I fear it is something he may never recover from. However, if he asks do not lie to him because he will never completely believe you anyway. By not lying, he may start to appreciate that at the very least you are being honest with him.

This was not a mistake. This was a deliberate action on your part. Do not try to frame it as a mistake when telling him because it will only make things worse. A mistake is putting salt instead of sugar in your tea. Having sex with someone all night is a deliberate action. Not using protection is another stupid but deliberate action. I can only think that maybe you thought you would not be caught. However, in the cold light of day you realise that this could come out.

He may ask about whether the POSOM was bigger, whether the sex with him was better, did you enjoy it, did you orgasm, why you didn't use protection etc etc. Be prepared for this because there is no easy way out of this. Being respectful but honest is probably the best thing to do.

Somebody else said that it was abundantly clear that you are in love with your husband. I am afraid that it is far from abundantly clear. Someone who is in love with their husband doesn't take the first opportunity to have wild sex with someone else as soon as it is presented. You need to explore this for yourself.

You need to realise that your POSOM AP doesn't really care about you. It seems like he is now trying to keep you as a booty call whenever possible. He made sure to do things with and to you that you might not have normally done. However, do not forget or attempt to minimise the fact that you are both equally to blame with only one of you also breaking vows and betraying not just a husband but an entire family. This is what your husband is going to wonder about - why do this with a POSOM AP that doesn't care about you and put your family at risk. You need to also think about the answer to this. An honest answer might be that you let lust take over, enjoyed the excitement and was too selfish at the time to think of anything or anybody else. Saying "I don't know why I did it" will make matters worse and possibly infuriate your husband.

Also, you do not appear to be really remorseful. The "Kleenex" remark was not only uncalled for (you were just asked how you managed to refrain from sex with your husband on returning home) but also sounded like justification. So was the blaming it on alcohol. So was the "well I asked my husband to come along but he did not want to" (implying that he had the opportunity to avoid this but did not). All of this doesn't sound remorseful but more like regret at maybe being caught and also justifying why you did it. True remorse will now be seen in your actions not your words.

When you do tell your husband, remember that it is all about him - trying to hurt him as little as possible without lying, trying to help him with his pain etc It is not about easing your guilt or shame.

There is a strong possibility that your husband will not recover from this. Even if he agrees to stay in the marriage for now, the resentment and hurt might last a lot longer if not forever. You need to be ready for that too.

Good luck!


----------



## Casual Observer

st232 said:


> My husband prefers kleenex. We have sex once or twice a month. So no he hasn't noticed.


Oh my. Has this always been the case? Did other issues in the past move things in this direction? What are your own needs? Has this been a source of frustration or have you both been happy with this?

It's a bit unusual you didn't bring this up previously. Many unfaithful wives would have rationalized a way to use that as an excuse.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

stillthinking said:


> GoldenR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what i see...
> 
> Your H has sex you once a month, twice if you're lucky. The rest of the month, he "spanks hank". He doesn't go with you to your reunion. You see a chance to have the wild monkey sex that you're missing, and you have sex more times in one night, unprotected, with your boyfriend than you do in a month with your H.
> 
> Then you feel guilty.
> 
> My advice? Divorce your H. You won't even have to tell him of your cheating if you don't want to. I say this bc I think the odds of your sex life changing with your H are next to zero, as he will want you even less now that you're tainted by your boyfriend. With less sex than ever, the chance of cheating again will go higher. And now that vyou've already tasted that forbidden fruit and were so into it you didn't stop after one time, you went back for seconds and thirds, you will want more.
> 
> Just divorce him.
> 
> 
> 
> It’s an option. This way she could spin it as she is leaving a sex starved marriage. Better than being known as a cheater. It makes the husband out as the problem. And she is free to party, with the alimony paying for it.
Click to expand...

Yea, he can blame himself for the rest of his life for his marriage failing not knowing his wife was slapping uglies with an old high school sweetheart.


----------



## notmyjamie

Casual Observer said:


> Oh my. Has this always been the case? Did other issues in the past move things in this direction? What are your own needs? Has this been a source of frustration or have you both been happy with this?
> 
> It's a bit unusual you didn't bring this up previously. Many unfaithful wives would have rationalized a way to use that as an excuse.


I have been impressed with her desire to take all the responsibility for her actions. I'd imagine she didn't mention it because she knows that while it may be a problem in her marriage, it is not a justification for cheating. She was asked a question about her sex life specifically and so she answered it. 

Isn't taking full responsibility what everyone here says WW are supposed to do? She's doing it in spades.


----------



## Affaircare

@st232,

Being a disloyal spouse here on TAM is a really hard thing. Many people REALLY trigger--men and women alike--and it can be hard to discern their reactive posts from truly wise, helpful posts. So as you read along, please read each post with a grain of salt (even mine) and remember that the people writing the posts may be reliving their own discovery day and re-experiencing the pain of realizing the person they loved and trusted had betrayed them. 

I would like to speak to you today as someone who has been in your shoes. I am a former disloyal spouse, and I'm very proud of that "former" in my otherwise dishonorable title. I cheated. To summarize, my hubby at the time and I were early 40's and hoped to have a baby. When I got pregnant we were overjoyed; when I lost the baby at 20 weeks, we fell apart. Then to add insult to injury, during all the follow up medical exams we found out we were infertile and that having another baby was a literal medical impossibility. I am a person who grieves by crying and hugging; my hubby at the time was a person who grieves by withdrawing into a cave until he has "dealt with it." Well...I thought he was withdrawing from me EXACTLY when I needed him the most, and to me it felt like I literally lost a child and a spouse at the same time. I did not go out in search of adultery--I started playing a game to fill the time alone. I was good at it. Another player noticed and complimented me, and I was vulnerable to someone (anyone) noticing me. Bit by bit I crossed boundaries until I was committing adultery--an emotional affair online. 

I tell you my story so you know that I'm not judging you. Humans are frail and on the occasion a good person makes a horrifyingly bad choice. I also want you to know that my hubby at the time and I did successfully reconcile and rebuild a whole new marriage that was stronger than ever, and very loving. So I am living proof that, with the right effort, it can be done. I hope that encourages you. 

BUT (and it's a big but), I don't want to sugar-coat or euphamize what's been done. You committed adultery. Say that out loud a couple times until it sinks in. It wasn't because your hubby ____ or because he didn't do _____... you made the choice, and you purposefully followed through with willingly committing adultery. I believe you need to accept that non-gentle, non sugar-coated truth, becuse as adults we can all choose how we are going to respond or react. You could have gone to your reunion, see your family and friends, and been the model of married fidelity--and somehow something in you decided to choose another route. YOU chose that. No one "forced" you. 

Once you've come to grips with your own personal responsibility in what you chose, the next part is to accept that the natural consequence of choosing to crush your vows is that your marriage is now dead precisely because of what YOU chose to do. Again, I'm not saying this with mean intent, but rather so you're not thinking, "I want it to go back to the way it was" or "I want it to be like it was." Nope, I'm sorry--your actions have so entirely destroyed your former marriage that it is dead and just can not be brought back to life. If there is going to be a reconciliation, what you'll be building is a WHOLE, NEW MARRIAGE. So part two is accepting the fact that your old marriage is GONE, never, ever to return. And it's gone because of what you did. 

After you get past the first two steps, I actually did write a couple articles that you might find helpful: 1) Understanding your loyal spouse and 2) What the disloyal spouse can do to save their marriage 

I don't usually toot my own horn, but I think these two articles will REALLY help you get an idea what it's like for your hubby, the loyal spouse. My hope is tha the first one will be one you can look at again and again in the coming days to explain where he's at, what he's thinking, how he's feeling, etc. so you can act in a sympathetic and understanding way. The second one is just general "good advice" 

My thoughts about details and size of the OM, etc.: I personally believe that hiding ANYTHING is a mistake and will only prove to your hubby that he still can't trust you. If you keep things from him purposefully, and he discovers any difference no matter how small, he will be right back to square one. At the same time, some details can be particularly cruel and like @StillSearching says, will burn into his soul like a brand. Thus, I think rather than hiding details or blabbering on and on about how the OM was bigger, did anal, and the sex was orgasmic...it may be better to say "I will answer anything you ask fully and honestly, but if you don't ask, I'm not going to cruelly add details that you don't deem necessary to your recovery." 

Now @st232, let me give you an example. The details of an affair are like a 5000 piece puzzle. YOU have all the puzzle pieces and you know that if you put all the pieces together, the picture it portraits of you is NOT complimentary! On the other hand, your hubby is missing a LOT of significant puzzle pieces, so for him, he wants to know X or Y or Z so he can put enough of the picture together to make heads or tails of the image! He can't even see what is in the picture of his life, because you are withholding pieces! Sooooo...some people want to fully complete the entire puzzle and they want all the pieces (will she lie or minimize on the gross, hard pieces? or will she tell the full truth when it's hard?) ... and some people want just enough of the pieces to realize its sexual, it's adultery, and that's all they need to know. Let HIM decide what HE needs, and then be fully open with him. 

Now, if the OM was beefy built and a big 10 inch...and hubby is thinner build an a shorter 8 inch (but still darn lovely and satisfying), it might be cruel to just start with "Well I slept with the OM because I wanted a hardy banging." Right? Why destroy the man after dropping a bomb on him? But it would be equally honest to say "You know, he is built differently than you, but that was not the deciding factor in my choice. The deciding factor was that I had a temptation and did not set up a good, strong hedge to protect myself from my own weaknesses. I did not resist when I should have." See what I mean? 

If he insists on SIZE analysis, you can say things like "Well he's built more like a stumpy zucchini and you're more like hotdog, so it's just not similar. Honestly it was not what I was focusing on. I was caught up in the thrill of feeling wanted." Again, see what I mean? Answer. Be fully truthful. But don't be cruel. Steer it to what really was YOUR WEAKNESS (not the OM's size or performance). 

Finally, if he does ask if the sex was good--he's about 100% likely to ask something along that line--it would be foolish to say it was bad if you went back for seconds and thirds. My guess is that you were turned on by feeling desired and "chased" and OM was turned on at chasing and "catching" someone. So again, the idea is to be fully honest and not minimize but also don't be cruel. "I got carried away and in the moment it did feel good. But as the sun rose and my mind returned, I realized the full impact of what I had done and it was SO NOT WORTH IT. So yes, it was momentarily pleasant, but not it was not good." 

One thing to avoid "He didn't mean anything to me." Well...if he didn't mean anything why would you throw away a whole marriage over nothing? Just don't say that. It doesn't help like you think it might. Instead say "YOU are important to me and yet in the moment I was selfish" or "It wasn't pre-meditated and afterward I didn't want him in any way, but I did realize that I had thought only of myself and not of the one who does mean something to me." 

Okay...I'm here if you need me. I caution you against ANY Private messages really, but especially not with males. I'm sorry Robert, but avoiding the appearance of evil is important here.


----------



## Casual Observer

manfromlamancha said:


> ...This was not a mistake. This was a deliberate action on your part. Do not try to frame it as a mistake when telling him because it will only make things worse. A mistake is putting salt instead of sugar in your tea. Having sex with someone all night is a deliberate action. Not using protection is another stupid but deliberate action. I can only think that maybe you thought you would not be caught. However, in the cold light of day you realise that this could come out.
> 
> ...Somebody else said that it was abundantly clear that you are in love with your husband. I am afraid that it is far from abundantly clear. Someone who is in love with their husband doesn't take the first opportunity to have wild sex with someone else as soon as it is presented. You need to explore this for yourself.
> 
> ...Also, you do not appear to be really remorseful. The "Kleenex" remark was not only uncalled for (you were just asked how you managed to refrain from sex with your husband on returning home) but also sounded like justification. So was the blaming it on alcohol. So was the "well I asked my husband to come along but he did not want to" (implying that he had the opportunity to avoid this but did not). All of this doesn't sound remorseful but more like regret at maybe being caught and also justifying why you did it. True remorse will now be seen in your actions not your words.


Her original post included nothing supporting that view; the subsequent details came out only after the required TAM grilling. She volunteered very little in "defense" of herself. Here's the text of her original post-

_Hi.

I don't want to say this... I cheated on my husband. I hate saying that. I hate myself for doing it. I can't eat or sleep or stop crying or stop dry puking. I haven't told my husband yet and I don't how I'm going to do it. I know I have to tell him because he deserves to know. I don't want to lose my husband but I deserve it if I do. I hate how much I hurt him. I know what it feels like to be cheated on and I didn't think I would ever do that to someone. I wish this was a bad dream that I would wake up from. I don't know how to tell him and what to do for him I don't know how I'm going to stop crying long enough to get the words out. 

Am I allowed to be here? I just don't know what to do_ ​She has been providing context, when asked, but she's not once suggested any part of that context was a reason or an excuse for what she did. On the other hand, some of the context providing sounds like this has been a marriage heading for failure for some time. Maybe she's the reason for that, maybe not. I'm just thinking there's some relevance to the idea this marriage was in a bad way before this happened, and fixing it may involve a lot more than just her coming clean and making promises.


----------



## personofinterest

notmyjamie said:


> Casual Observer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my. Has this always been the case? Did other issues in the past move things in this direction? What are your own needs? Has this been a source of frustration or have you both been happy with this?
> 
> It's a bit unusual you didn't bring this up previously. Many unfaithful wives would have rationalized a way to use that as an excuse.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been impressed with her desire to take all the responsibility for her actions. I'd imagine she didn't mention it because she knows that while it may be a problem in her marriage, it is not a justification for cheating. She was asked a question about her sex life specifically and so she answered it.
> 
> Isn't taking full responsibility what everyone here says WW are supposed to do? She's doing it in spades.
Click to expand...

 Let's get real. She is a woman and she cheated. Most of the people on here projecting their anger at their own wayward wives on to this poster wouldn't care if she hung herself at the public square. This is just what they do.


----------



## notmyjamie

personofinterest said:


> Let's get real. She is a woman and she cheated. Most of the people on here projecting their anger at their own wayward wives on to this poster wouldn't care if she hung herself at the public square. This is just what they do.


And God help anyone who has compassion for the cheater. That means you're either a cheater yourself, an ******* or a complete moron, or maybe all three. Although I do admit that I can be naive and do always look for the good in everybody to my own detriment sometimes despite the total betrayal I've experienced in my own life.

You have to have tough skin to post here about infidelity. I hope OP can weed through those posts and find the helpful ones.


----------



## st232

I said I wanted my husband there because I meant cheating wasn't premeditated. The Kleenex comment was uncalled for. I got frustrated and slipped. I said the alcohol wasn't an excuse or at least meant to if I didn't. None of that was to justify my actions.

If I was going to justify my actions I would have said that my husband has cheated more times than I can count which is why we waited 8 years to get married. I'd say instead of having sex with me while I was pregnant with #1 he had a handful of side pieces. I'd say that there's nothing like finding out you were cheated on while pregnant and going into labor at 31 weeks and delivering at 34 weeks. I'd say that I refused to have sex with him after he cheated because I couldn't bare it. I'd say that his high drive dropped to next to nothing because, I quote, "sex with you isn't worth the work". I'd say that I asked for details and was told woman #6 tasted bad because they had just worked out together. I've never been able to let my husband go down on me since then because THATS all that I think about. I would say that my kids went to my MIL's for the entire week I was gone because my husband can't handle parenting not because he also deserved a vacation. I would say that I HATE being rejected by my husband because after HE ****ed anything with a heartbeat he won't have sex with me because it's too hard and not worth the work. I'd say that I don't even bother trying because I don't want to be turned down anymore because I hate it. And none of that matters because I agreed to reconcile and marry him. So no don't tell me that I don't know how he feels or how hard it is or what he has to swallow. I'd say that yeah I went home and felt good when I was wanted for once. An exbf from a 4 year relationship with the ink still went on his divorce decree flirted and gave me attention and I snatched the rebound attention up forgetting that he made an oopsie too and accidentally ****ed my then best friend for 2 weeks then dumped me on my birthday, but I knew damn well it was wrong as I ate it up. Or getting a lot of attention from a guy who hit on me every damn day for 4 years even though I always turned him down, feeling good about that too and falling for his sleezy charm that hasn't changed a bit and gave him what he waited 15 years for. I've been on the other side of this and I know what it feels like to be blamed. So no I didn't blame my husband. I guess now I have.


----------



## Adelais

In Absentia said:


> Just don't tell him... if you can live with it. You made a silly mistake and you won't do it again. If you tell him, your family and marriage will be destroyed and your children will suffer. I don't condone it, but think about your kids first. Lots of people won't agree with me over this, so I await the nuclear fallout now... :laugh:


While I wish this were that easy, really I do. Unfortunately it isn't.

1. Because you have a conscience, this will eat at you until you tell him. This secret will drive a wedge between you, even if it is subtle.

2. You have to tell your husband. The longer you wait, the more you will be hurting him. Every year that passes that you don't tell him is a year that he will believe was a lie when he does find out. The sooner you tell him, the less harm you will be inflicting on him.

3. You said that you were drunk and didn't even wake up until the guy was already having sex with you. He could have taken naked photos of you while you were passed out. Based on the nasty note he left you, he probably did just that.

Guaranteed he has bragged to other guys already, and will tell more.

4. Your brother knows. It doesn't matter that he won't tell your husband. Now he has to deal with keeping your dirty little secret for you. When you confess to your husband your brother will also be off the hook.

5. Don't bring up your twice-a-month sex life any time in the near future, if you decide to tell your husband about your one night stand. That is a separate issue, and should be dealt with separately after your husband has recovered from your one-night-stand. If you bring it up too close to disclosing the affair, he will think you are making excuses.

6. Just for my own curiosity, and not related to your affair: Have you and your husband ever discussed your dissatisfaction with the frequency of sex in your marriage? Has he given reasons for his lack of desire for you? Is he substituting porn for sex with you? 

It sucks when you do something that you later regret and wish you could roll back the dial. At least you have a conscience.


----------



## VladDracul

Affaircare said:


> But it would be equally honest to say "You know, he is built differently than you, but that was not the deciding factor in my choice.


I don't know. Most guys I've ever known are more concerned about why she'd let somebody in the saddle rather than the cowboy she let ride. If a man ain't going to put up with somebody besides him warming up her kitty, he ain't likely to say, "Hey, its alright baby. You said he's smaller than me and you said I'm better in the sack. Lets forget it and go have lunch." I doubt if most women would be thrilled to hear, "Honey, she was much looser than you" 
Sides that, you kinda have to surmise, she already decided to cheat on you before she knew what he's packing and would have rode that bull regardless of the size of his horns. Of course the chick in this story may have been in this rodeo with the same bull before.


----------



## Adelais

st232 said:


> I said I wanted my husband there because I meant cheating wasn't premeditated. The Kleenex comment was uncalled for. I got frustrated and slipped. I said the alcohol wasn't an excuse or at least meant to if I didn't. None of that was to justify my actions.
> 
> If I was going to justify my actions I would have said that my husband has cheated more times than I can count which is why we waited 8 years to get married. I'd say instead of having sex with me while I was pregnant with #1 he had a handful of side pieces. I'd say that there's nothing like finding out you were cheated on while pregnant and going into labor at 31 weeks and delivering at 34 weeks. I'd say that I refused to have sex with him after he cheated because I couldn't bare it. I'd say that his high drive dropped to next to nothing because, I quote, "sex with you isn't worth the work". I'd say that I asked for details and was told woman #6 tasted bad because they had just worked out together. I've never been able to let my husband go down on me since then because THATS all that I think about. I would say that my kids went to my MIL's for the entire week I was gone because my husband can't handle parenting not because he also deserved a vacation. I would say that I HATE being rejected by my husband because after HE ****ed anything with a heartbeat he won't have sex with me because it's too hard and not worth the work. I'd say that I don't even bother trying because I don't want to be turned down anymore because I hate it. And none of that matters because I agreed to reconcile and marry him. So no don't tell me that I don't know how he feels or how hard it is or what he has to swallow. I'd say that yeah I went home and felt good when I was wanted for once. An exbf from a 4 year relationship with the ink still went on his divorce decree flirted and gave me attention and I snatched the rebound attention up forgetting that he made an oopsie too and accidentally ****ed my then best friend for 2 weeks then dumped me on my birthday, but I knew damn well it was wrong as I ate it up. Or getting a lot of attention from a guy who hit on me every damn day for 4 years even though I always turned him down, feeling good about that too and falling for his sleezy charm that hasn't changed a bit and gave him what he waited 15 years for. I've been on the other side of this and I know what it feels like to be blamed. So no I didn't blame my husband. I guess now I have.


The comment I am about to make is not related to your cheating: Why are you still with your husband??? You deserve better.


----------



## VladDracul

st232 said:


> If I was going to justify my actions I would have said that my husband has cheated more times than I can count which is why we waited 8 years to get married.


Now we have something we can work with. If your story is on the level, the last thing you need to do is blame yourself for searching for affirmation of your worth. You're human. And hey, what's wrong with pointing a finger at him. Did his actions not put you in that position. Or look at it another way. If he'd been the kind of husband he should be, would you have taken the action you did. His fate is written by his own hand. You're too quick to fall on your sword me lady. I kinda figured that, hence, my response to your post. 
Sides that, his tom catting around earned you a hall pass. If you brother can keep his mouth shut, I recommend you don't tell your old man shyt.


----------



## notmyjamie

st232 said:


> I've been on the other side of this and I know what it feels like to be blamed. So no I didn't blame my husband. I guess now I have.


Wow, just wow. After this revelation, I'd say if he can't handle it then say good riddance. I'm sorry to hear you've been dealing with all that for so many years. You seem like a nice person and he sounds like a total *******. You deserve much more than that. 

You deserve more than Mr Fake Charm who finally convinced you to have sex when you were most vulnerable and honestly, too drunk to consent.

I say you leave them both in the dust and find someone who is worthy of your love.


----------



## personofinterest

st232 said:


> I said I wanted my husband there because I meant cheating wasn't premeditated. The Kleenex comment was uncalled for. I got frustrated and slipped. I said the alcohol wasn't an excuse or at least meant to if I didn't. None of that was to justify my actions.
> 
> If I was going to justify my actions I would have said that my husband has cheated more times than I can count which is why we waited 8 years to get married. I'd say instead of having sex with me while I was pregnant with #1 he had a handful of side pieces. I'd say that there's nothing like finding out you were cheated on while pregnant and going into labor at 31 weeks and delivering at 34 weeks. I'd say that I refused to have sex with him after he cheated because I couldn't bare it. I'd say that his high drive dropped to next to nothing because, I quote, "sex with you isn't worth the work". I'd say that I asked for details and was told woman #6 tasted bad because they had just worked out together. I've never been able to let my husband go down on me since then because THATS all that I think about. I would say that my kids went to my MIL's for the entire week I was gone because my husband can't handle parenting not because he also deserved a vacation. I would say that I HATE being rejected by my husband because after HE ****ed anything with a heartbeat he won't have sex with me because it's too hard and not worth the work. I'd say that I don't even bother trying because I don't want to be turned down anymore because I hate it. And none of that matters because I agreed to reconcile and marry him. So no don't tell me that I don't know how he feels or how hard it is or what he has to swallow. I'd say that yeah I went home and felt good when I was wanted for once. An exbf from a 4 year relationship with the ink still went on his divorce decree flirted and gave me attention and I snatched the rebound attention up forgetting that he made an oopsie too and accidentally ****ed my then best friend for 2 weeks then dumped me on my birthday, but I knew damn well it was wrong as I ate it up. Or getting a lot of attention from a guy who hit on me every damn day for 4 years even though I always turned him down, feeling good about that too and falling for his sleezy charm that hasn't changed a bit and gave him what he waited 15 years for. I've been on the other side of this and I know what it feels like to be blamed. So no I didn't blame my husband. I guess now I have.


Wow

That should shut a few people up


----------



## As'laDain

st232 said:


> I said I wanted my husband there because I meant cheating wasn't premeditated. The Kleenex comment was uncalled for. I got frustrated and slipped. I said the alcohol wasn't an excuse or at least meant to if I didn't. None of that was to justify my actions.
> 
> If I was going to justify my actions I would have said that my husband has cheated more times than I can count which is why we waited 8 years to get married. I'd say instead of having sex with me while I was pregnant with #1 he had a handful of side pieces. I'd say that there's nothing like finding out you were cheated on while pregnant and going into labor at 31 weeks and delivering at 34 weeks. I'd say that I refused to have sex with him after he cheated because I couldn't bare it. I'd say that his high drive dropped to next to nothing because, I quote, "sex with you isn't worth the work". I'd say that I asked for details and was told woman #6 tasted bad because they had just worked out together. I've never been able to let my husband go down on me since then because THATS all that I think about. I would say that my kids went to my MIL's for the entire week I was gone because my husband can't handle parenting not because he also deserved a vacation. I would say that I HATE being rejected by my husband because after HE ****ed anything with a heartbeat he won't have sex with me because it's too hard and not worth the work. I'd say that I don't even bother trying because I don't want to be turned down anymore because I hate it. And none of that matters because I agreed to reconcile and marry him. So no don't tell me that I don't know how he feels or how hard it is or what he has to swallow. I'd say that yeah I went home and felt good when I was wanted for once. An exbf from a 4 year relationship with the ink still went on his divorce decree flirted and gave me attention and I snatched the rebound attention up forgetting that he made an oopsie too and accidentally ****ed my then best friend for 2 weeks then dumped me on my birthday, but I knew damn well it was wrong as I ate it up. Or getting a lot of attention from a guy who hit on me every damn day for 4 years even though I always turned him down, feeling good about that too and falling for his sleezy charm that hasn't changed a bit and gave him what he waited 15 years for. I've been on the other side of this and I know what it feels like to be blamed. So no I didn't blame my husband. I guess now I have.


so... if all the above is true, then i personally wouldn't feel very guilty if i were in your shoes right now. to be honest, you would probably be better off leaving him. sounds miserable.


----------



## st232

I don't want to leave him or lose him. Everything in my marriage I agreed to when I married him. I knew what I was signing up for and agreed to put it behind us. Two wrongs don't make a right. I can ***** about my marriage but it's the one I chose. Theres no you did it first in marriage.


----------



## pbj2016

st232 said:


> I said I wanted my husband there because I meant cheating wasn't premeditated. The Kleenex comment was uncalled for. I got frustrated and slipped. I said the alcohol wasn't an excuse or at least meant to if I didn't. None of that was to justify my actions.
> 
> If I was going to justify my actions I would have said that my husband has cheated more times than I can count which is why we waited 8 years to get married. I'd say instead of having sex with me while I was pregnant with #1 he had a handful of side pieces. I'd say that there's nothing like finding out you were cheated on while pregnant and going into labor at 31 weeks and delivering at 34 weeks. I'd say that I refused to have sex with him after he cheated because I couldn't bare it. I'd say that his high drive dropped to next to nothing because, I quote, "sex with you isn't worth the work". I'd say that I asked for details and was told woman #6 tasted bad because they had just worked out together. I've never been able to let my husband go down on me since then because THATS all that I think about. I would say that my kids went to my MIL's for the entire week I was gone because my husband can't handle parenting not because he also deserved a vacation. I would say that I HATE being rejected by my husband because after HE ****ed anything with a heartbeat he won't have sex with me because it's too hard and not worth the work. I'd say that I don't even bother trying because I don't want to be turned down anymore because I hate it. And none of that matters because I agreed to reconcile and marry him. So no don't tell me that I don't know how he feels or how hard it is or what he has to swallow. I'd say that yeah I went home and felt good when I was wanted for once. An exbf from a 4 year relationship with the ink still went on his divorce decree flirted and gave me attention and I snatched the rebound attention up forgetting that he made an oopsie too and accidentally ****ed my then best friend for 2 weeks then dumped me on my birthday, but I knew damn well it was wrong as I ate it up. Or getting a lot of attention from a guy who hit on me every damn day for 4 years even though I always turned him down, feeling good about that too and falling for his sleezy charm that hasn't changed a bit and gave him what he waited 15 years for. I've been on the other side of this and I know what it feels like to be blamed. So no I didn't blame my husband. I guess now I have.




This is rough to read. I think the thing that hurts you the most is that you prided yourself that you were better than that and you found out that when drunk you really weren’t. My heart goes out to you not only for the past but the current situation you are in. 

I’m of the opinion that when someone cheats the marriage is dead. It sounds like your husband already killed the marriage but you are the one carrying a load of guilt that probably won’t survive the weekend let alone long term. He sounds like a real winner. 

Don’t believe I am condoning your actions. I think you really need to take affaircare’s last post and use it as a blueprint for how you will tell him. But you have to. I don’t think this marriage can be rebuilt without drastic changes from you both.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

st232 said:


> If I was going to justify my actions I would have said that my husband has cheated more times than I can count which is why we waited 8 years to get married.


That kinda does justify your actions and changes everything. So why all the guilt about hurting your cheating husband? In other words why all the hand wringing from your first several posts.


----------



## st232

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> That kinda does justify your actions and changes everything. So why all the guilt about hurting your cheating husband? In other words why all the hand wringing from your first several posts.


He's hasn't cheated during our marriage. I knew what our past was and agreed to it when we married. Two wrongs don't make a right. I broke vows not him.


----------



## notmyjamie

st232 said:


> I don't want to leave him or lose him. Everything in my marriage I agreed to when I married him. I knew what I was signing up for and agreed to put it behind us. Two wrongs don't make a right. I can ***** about my marriage but it's the one I chose. Theres no you did it first in marriage.


Like I said, you're a good person. And you definitely know how to take responsibilities for your actions. You're quite impressive actually. 

I hope things work out for you however you want them to, but honestly, with a history like that, I really hope your husband takes your remorse at face value and you're able to move forward in your marriage. I'd be hard pressed to stay with him if he got too judgmental if I were you. I realize I'm not you of course, but I can't stand the thought of him going nuts on you about this. He has zero room to be judgmental or unforgiving.

I wonder, the comments your husband said about sex with you being worth it...were those made during his cheating years or during your marriage? Two wrongs don't make a right, that's true, but if he has said this during your marriage, in my opinion, he deserves however he feels when you confess to him. I know you don't feel that way, but I feel that way for you. 

In any event, I think some marriage counseling would be a good idea for you both at this point.


----------



## personofinterest

st232 said:


> I don't want to leave him or lose him. Everything in my marriage I agreed to when I married him. I knew what I was signing up for and agreed to put it behind us. Two wrongs don't make a right. I can ***** about my marriage but it's the one I chose. Theres no you did it first in marriage.


This makes you more honorable than most of the people attacking you.


----------



## moulinyx

st232 said:


> I don't want to leave him or lose him. Everything in my marriage I agreed to when I married him. I knew what I was signing up for and agreed to put it behind us. Two wrongs don't make a right. I can ***** about my marriage but it's the one I chose. Theres no you did it first in marriage.



I get you don't want to lose your marriage, but there's a difference between being happy in your marriage and just feeling safe. Your husband saying its too much work to be intimate with you is ridiculous and total BS. Just because you knew doesn't mean you don't harbor guilt. 

Tell him and be sincere, but don't fold over and be a doormat. And by that I mean don't let him act like you are the scum of the earth for acting out in this way. Two wrongs don't make a right, but he needs to be taking care of his "duties" as a husband. Don't be the book that sits on his nightstand but never gets read. Maybe you can have some passionate, angry makeup sex to move on from it? Geez, even offer to watch porn together if that's what he is into. Maybe us wives need to turn up the freaky a bit to compete with the eternal youth of porn? 

Honestly, maybe you needed to even the scoreboards a bit to make him realize you are desired by other men and two people can play that game if he doesn't want to step up to the plate. Try counseling or bounce. I am in the same boat as far as a sex starved marriage goes, but my husband at least tries to make me feel attractive and occasionally "fakes" being turned on for my benefit. 

Regardless, this can be the turning point you need to finally figure out what you are willing to take/what you are willing to go without.


----------



## farsidejunky

It certainly provides perspective to the picture.

In the moments leading up to cheating (before blackout), was there a small part of you that justified what you were doing due to resentment?

ETA: I ask this because if I had married somebody who had cheated on me repeatedly prior to marriage, I would likely still be holding onto resentment as well. Codependency.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Casual Observer

st232 said:


> He's hasn't cheated during our marriage. I knew what our past was and agreed to it when we married. Two wrongs don't make a right. I broke vows not him.


Agreed, but your marriage has been in need of fixing for quite some time. As I suspected when I tried to get more info from you. Your "kleenex" comment wasn't uncalled for; it was completely appropriate as it did provide needed context. Without it, this would have been the usual bit-by-bit-by-painful bit revelation. 

Still not sure why you kept this information out of the thread for so many posts. If what you say is true, you've been, at the very least, emotionally abused by your husband, neglected, and it doesn't sound like he's the best father either. It's admirable that you want to hold things together, but one has to ask... if not for the kid(s?), would you still want him around? Would he want you around (if you hadn't cheated)?


----------



## rugswept

yikes.... sorry @st232. 
the way you started out, it seemed your H (i won't call him BH anymore) was a doting, loving, innocent man who was faithful and adoring and was oblivious to anything and everything in the world. 
when you said something about the hurt of betrayal, that it was deep in your past and had nothing to do with H. 
based on the above i surmised what i did. 

whatever you did "on that night" with "him" was nothing by comparison. at this point i'm not sure if vows even apply after all of that abuse of gargantuan order. yes, you were wrong. but yikes, after what you described, you had a minor kiss in the back of the high school gym with an old flame. 

you're in every way, far more honorable than that man will ever be. 
everyone here just didn't have a full picture of the hurt and real history you had. 
when you're with child, struggling through a pregnancy and you endure what you did, vows pale by comparison. 
children are bigger than life itself. 

now i get your thing about "2 years" when you had two children. 
we just didn't know. 

confess, if he can't take it after all that, he's a first class AHOLE.


----------



## TAMAT

ST232,

Sorry I didn't know your H had cheated on you previously.

At the very least tell, so your brother does not have to lie every time he sees your husband.


----------



## Casual Observer

How different would this thread have been if it started with the lengthy recent revelation of the husband's issues, followed with a "So why am I so torn up about my first and only ONS a couple weeks ago at my HS reunion?


----------



## alte Dame

From what you've told us, you are two broken people. Yes, you need to confess. You both need lots of therapy to figure out why you do what you do in your relationship.

(And please don't say that you've put it all behind you. Your dissertation would prove otherwise. I'm sympathetic re what he has put you through, but you didn't leave. You could have left. Now the 'story of you' is even more tragic.)


----------



## personofinterest

Casual Observer said:


> How different would this thread have been if it started with the lengthy recent revelation of the husband's issues, followed with a "So why am I so torn up about my first and only ONS a couple weeks ago at my HS reunion?


Nah....she'd be accused of blameshifting.

A cheating woman has no chance on a forum.


----------



## moulinyx

TAMAT said:


> ST232,
> 
> Sorry I didn't know your H had cheated on you previously.
> 
> At the very least tell, so your brother does not have to lie every time he sees your husband.


Solid advice. I thought the same thing.


----------



## Adelais

st232 said:


> I don't want to leave him or lose him. Everything in my marriage I agreed to when I married him. I knew what I was signing up for and agreed to put it behind us. Two wrongs don't make a right. I can ***** about my marriage but it's the one I chose. Theres no you did it first in marriage.


You say the above, yet you brought it all up as a hypothetical justification for your ONS. Which is it? Did you forgive his premarital wrongdoings when you married him, or are they justifications (that you claim to not hold on to) for your ONS?


----------



## TAMAT

st232,

From what you wrote it sounds like your H is a serial cheater, and they are very different from the kind of cheater you are. It's the difference between getting drunk and being a lifelong alcoholic. 

What you did was and is serious, but what your H did to you while in a committed relationship is cruel, I don't believe you were intentionally cruel to your H. 

Offer to take a polygraph if your H takes one too.


----------



## st232

Once we agreed to move forward there is no going back to the past. I can't expect my husband to get over it because we put that issue to rest. He opened the door for me to sleep with someone else before we married and I didn't want to. He made it clear that offer ended. He regrets cheating and he is faithful now. 

If I would have said my husband cheated first and our sex life blows I would have been told that I was using that as an excuse. I was told that anyway so maybe I should have said it from the getgo. I didn't come here to be told my marriage sucks. I already know that. I don't want to be told to scratch this marriage and find a new one. This is the one I picked. 

My husband has said sex with me isn't worth it for years. Before we married and he still says it. If I would respond well to "wanna ****?" and no foreplay and get over my insecurities and not need any time together after then he would probably want sex more often. Its not worth him putting in effort so jerking off wins. 

If we didn't have kids, no I would not be with him. I would have left him the first time. I don't play what if games. We do have kids and I am with him. 

In the moments leading up to cheating (before blackout), was there a small part of you that justified what you were doing due to resentment? My husbands past indiscretions were on my mind and I justified a bit. 

I know that I was too drunk to consent but I wanted to do it and knew what was going on. I've never consumed that much alcohol. I couldn't hold up my own body weight or walk without my legs buckling and had no balance. When I did start questioning if I wanted to be there I could barely move. There was an arm under my pelvis so I didn't fall over or down and I didn't have the strength to move my arm back and stop it. My whole body felt like deadweight. When I woke up to the guy on top of me my arm was hanging off the bed and I couldnt lift it up. I was awake but felt asleep. It's my fault for drinking as much as I did. I drank slowly throughout the day then 8 or 9 drinks at night while inviting him to my hotel room to drink while he worked on 1 beer. I knew what was going to happen. I removed my boundaries and didn't care about consequences about no condoms, who I did it worth, cheating. I enjoyed it because I was completely relaxed and care free. I was too drunk but that is not an excuse. I got to that state in company and knew what was going to happen.


----------



## As'laDain

st232 said:


> Once we agreed to move forward there is no going back to the past. I can't expect my husband to get over it because we put that issue to rest. He opened the door for me to sleep with someone else before we married and I didn't want to. He made it clear that offer ended. He regrets cheating and he is faithful now.
> 
> If I would have said my husband cheated first and our sex life blows I would have been told that I was using that as an excuse. I was told that anyway so maybe I should have said it from the getgo. I didn't come here to be told my marriage sucks. I already know that. I don't want to be told to scratch this marriage and find a new one. This is the one I picked.
> 
> My husband has said sex with me isn't worth it for years. Before we married and he still says it. If I would respond well to "wanna ****?" and no foreplay and get over my insecurities and not need any time together after then he would probably want sex more often. Its not worth him putting in effort so jerking off wins.
> 
> If we didn't have kids, no I would not be with him. I would have left him the first time. I don't play what if games. We do have kids and I am with him.
> 
> In the moments leading up to cheating (before blackout), was there a small part of you that justified what you were doing due to resentment? My husbands past indiscretions were on my mind and I justified a bit.
> 
> I know that I was too drunk to consent but I wanted to do it and knew what was going on. I've never consumed that much alcohol. I couldn't hold up my own body weight or walk without my legs buckling and had no balance. When I did start questioning if I wanted to be there I could barely move. There was an arm under my pelvis so I didn't fall over or down and I didn't have the strength to move my arm back and stop it. My whole body felt like deadweight. When I woke up to the guy on top of me my arm was hanging off the bed and I couldnt lift it up. I was awake but felt asleep. It's my fault for drinking as much as I did. I drank slowly throughout the day then 8 or 9 drinks at night while inviting him to my hotel room to drink while he worked on 1 beer. I knew what was going to happen. I removed my boundaries and didn't care about consequences about no condoms, who I did it worth, cheating. I enjoyed it because I was completely relaxed and care free. I was too drunk but that is not an excuse. I got to that state in company and knew what was going to happen.


just so you know, the way you describe being wide awake and felt asleep just made me feel ice in my veins. look up what it feels like to have too much ketamine in your system, or ketamine mixed with alcohol. other strong sedatives can have a similar effect.


----------



## GoldenR

Knowing all of this now, even moreso I think you should ditch him. He's an *******.


----------



## TAMAT

st232,

I also feel you should tell to keep yourself from allowing how your H treated you to turn you into him.

Find someone who actually loves you.


----------



## EleGirl

st232 said:


> I said I wanted my husband there because I meant cheating wasn't premeditated. The Kleenex comment was uncalled for. I got frustrated and slipped. I said the alcohol wasn't an excuse or at least meant to if I didn't. None of that was to justify my actions.
> 
> If I was going to justify my actions I would have said that my husband has cheated more times than I can count which is why we waited 8 years to get married. I'd say instead of having sex with me while I was pregnant with #1 he had a handful of side pieces. I'd say that there's nothing like finding out you were cheated on while pregnant and going into labor at 31 weeks and delivering at 34 weeks. I'd say that I refused to have sex with him after he cheated because I couldn't bare it. I'd say that his high drive dropped to next to nothing because, I quote, "sex with you isn't worth the work". I'd say that I asked for details and was told woman #6 tasted bad because they had just worked out together. I've never been able to let my husband go down on me since then because THATS all that I think about. I would say that my kids went to my MIL's for the entire week I was gone because my husband can't handle parenting not because he also deserved a vacation. I would say that I HATE being rejected by my husband because after HE ****ed anything with a heartbeat he won't have sex with me because it's too hard and not worth the work. I'd say that I don't even bother trying because I don't want to be turned down anymore because I hate it. And none of that matters because I agreed to reconcile and marry him. So no don't tell me that I don't know how he feels or how hard it is or what he has to swallow. I'd say that yeah I went home and felt good when I was wanted for once. An exbf from a 4 year relationship with the ink still went on his divorce decree flirted and gave me attention and I snatched the rebound attention up forgetting that he made an oopsie too and accidentally ****ed my then best friend for 2 weeks then dumped me on my birthday, but I knew damn well it was wrong as I ate it up. Or getting a lot of attention from a guy who hit on me every damn day for 4 years even though I always turned him down, feeling good about that too and falling for his sleezy charm that hasn't changed a bit and gave him what he waited 15 years for. I've been on the other side of this and I know what it feels like to be blamed. So no I didn't blame my husband. I guess now I have.


You say that you reconciled after all the awful things he did in the past. After reading this, I think it's pretty clear that you two have not reconciled and have been going through the motions.

Do you actually want to be married to this man?


----------



## st232

EleGirl said:


> You say that you reconciled after all the awful things he did in the past. After reading this, I think it's pretty clear that you two have not reconciled and have been going through the motions.
> 
> Do you actually want to be married to this man?


I want to be with my husband.


----------



## st232

As'laDain said:


> just so you know, the way you describe being wide awake and felt asleep just made me feel ice in my veins. look up what it feels like to have too much ketamine in your system, or ketamine mixed with alcohol. other strong sedatives can have a similar effect.


I would rather choose to be in the dark.


----------



## EleGirl

st232 said:


> I don't want to leave him or lose him. Everything in my marriage I agreed to when I married him. I knew what I was signing up for and agreed to put it behind us. Two wrongs don't make a right. I can ***** about my marriage but it's the one I chose. Theres no you did it first in marriage.


 I don't think it's that cut and dry. You agreed to forgive him for the past when you married him. But sometimes we think we can deal with something only to find out that we cannot in the long run.

The fact is that more than 50% of those who are cheated on end up cheating. I know that when I found out about my ex's cheating, there was a voice in my head for a long time that told me that if I cheated, it would even the scales. It was like some voice in my head kept telling me that I could get my self respect back. I knew it was wrong and did not follow through. However, the urge to have a revenge affair was extremely strong. I'll bet that the one thing that really saved me from it was that I did not know any guys I wanted to have sex with. I was mostly around men who I had worked with for years and none of them ever appealed to me.

Add to your situation the fact that the two of you have been having problems with sex for a long time, it's not surprising really that you cheated. I know that you wanted to be the bigger person, but I think that the situation is one in which you just learned something very important about yourself. You have not healed from what he did in the past. It's evident from the fact that you have a problem with sex with your husband. You are not getting the sex and intimacy that you need from your husband. This is pretty clear. Your anger at him can be 'felt' in that last post of yours.

I think that before you tell your husband, you should get some counseling to understand what's going on in your head. 

He had sex with other women and now he does not really want sex with you. My bet is that you want him to know that you are desirable and how rotten your feel deep down inside with the way your marriage has been going. You need to work through this before you tell him, if you ever tell him.


----------



## moulinyx

st232 said:


> Once we agreed to move forward there is no going back to the past. I can't expect my husband to get over it because we put that issue to rest. He opened the door for me to sleep with someone else before we married and I didn't want to. He made it clear that offer ended. He regrets cheating and he is faithful now.
> 
> If I would have said my husband cheated first and our sex life blows I would have been told that I was using that as an excuse. I was told that anyway so maybe I should have said it from the getgo. I didn't come here to be told my marriage sucks. I already know that. I don't want to be told to scratch this marriage and find a new one. This is the one I picked.
> 
> My husband has said sex with me isn't worth it for years. Before we married and he still says it. If I would respond well to "wanna ****?" and no foreplay and get over my insecurities and not need any time together after then he would probably want sex more often. Its not worth him putting in effort so jerking off wins.
> 
> If we didn't have kids, no I would not be with him. I would have left him the first time. I don't play what if games. We do have kids and I am with him.
> 
> In the moments leading up to cheating (before blackout), was there a small part of you that justified what you were doing due to resentment? My husbands past indiscretions were on my mind and I justified a bit.
> 
> I know that I was too drunk to consent but I wanted to do it and knew what was going on. I've never consumed that much alcohol. I couldn't hold up my own body weight or walk without my legs buckling and had no balance. When I did start questioning if I wanted to be there I could barely move. There was an arm under my pelvis so I didn't fall over or down and I didn't have the strength to move my arm back and stop it. My whole body felt like deadweight. When I woke up to the guy on top of me my arm was hanging off the bed and I couldnt lift it up. I was awake but felt asleep. It's my fault for drinking as much as I did. I drank slowly throughout the day then 8 or 9 drinks at night while inviting him to my hotel room to drink while he worked on 1 beer. I knew what was going to happen. I removed my boundaries and didn't care about consequences about no condoms, who I did it worth, cheating. I enjoyed it because I was completely relaxed and care free. I was too drunk but that is not an excuse. I got to that state in company and knew what was going to happen.



Girl. 

The cheating thing sucks. It sucks you have this baggage from the past and it sucks you are in this predicament. But all of this stuff is fixable (of course, if you move past this cheating thing). Do you realize you are BOTH doing the same thing to eachother in regards to sex? You have your set needs for sex, and so does he. Neither of you are willing to compromise or meet in the middle to get your spark back. Sure we all want 50 shades of grey, but wouldn't it be worth laying it on the table and trying to find a common ground? There is NO way he is happy with getting all of his satisfaction from his hand, and you clearly aren't happy with it either. Do you really think he will be all that shocked that you needed some sexual release? I by no means am validating you, but cheating is a symptom of needs going unmet. This is your chance to be apologetic but also tell him you are sexually starving and want to have a passionate marriage. 

The fact that you finally felt relaxed and carefree is something you need to think about. You have stated you love him and obviously want to stay married if this situation works out....but its going to take work on your end as well. Im not saying you have to totally bend 100% to his needs, but I bet he would be more into reciprocation if the conversation shifted from what he isn't doing well enough to "what turns you on?" or "what do you want me to do to you?" It may even be more satisfying for you knowing you're doing what it takes to be "hot" again.


----------



## EleGirl

As'laDain said:


> st232 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once we agreed to move forward there is no going back to the past. I can't expect my husband to get over it because we put that issue to rest. He opened the door for me to sleep with someone else before we married and I didn't want to. He made it clear that offer ended. He regrets cheating and he is faithful now.
> 
> If I would have said my husband cheated first and our sex life blows I would have been told that I was using that as an excuse. I was told that anyway so maybe I should have said it from the getgo. I didn't come here to be told my marriage sucks. I already know that. I don't want to be told to scratch this marriage and find a new one. This is the one I picked.
> 
> My husband has said sex with me isn't worth it for years. Before we married and he still says it. If I would respond well to "wanna ****?" and no foreplay and get over my insecurities and not need any time together after then he would probably want sex more often. Its not worth him putting in effort so jerking off wins.
> 
> If we didn't have kids, no I would not be with him. I would have left him the first time. I don't play what if games. We do have kids and I am with him.
> 
> In the moments leading up to cheating (before blackout), was there a small part of you that justified what you were doing due to resentment? My husbands past indiscretions were on my mind and I justified a bit.
> 
> I know that I was too drunk to consent but I wanted to do it and knew what was going on. I've never consumed that much alcohol. I couldn't hold up my own body weight or walk without my legs buckling and had no balance. When I did start questioning if I wanted to be there I could barely move. There was an arm under my pelvis so I didn't fall over or down and I didn't have the strength to move my arm back and stop it. My whole body felt like deadweight. When I woke up to the guy on top of me my arm was hanging off the bed and I couldnt lift it up. I was awake but felt asleep. It's my fault for drinking as much as I did. I drank slowly throughout the day then 8 or 9 drinks at night while inviting him to my hotel room to drink while he worked on 1 beer. I knew what was going to happen. I removed my boundaries and didn't care about consequences about no condoms, who I did it worth, cheating. I enjoyed it because I was completely relaxed and care free. I was too drunk but that is not an excuse. I got to that state in company and knew what was going to happen.
> 
> 
> 
> just so you know, the way you describe being wide awake and felt asleep just made me feel ice in my veins. look up what it feels like to have too much ketamine in your system, or ketamine mixed with alcohol. other strong sedatives can have a similar effect.
> just so you know, the way you describe being wide awake and felt asleep just made me feel ice in my veins. look up what it feels like to have too much ketamine in your system, or ketamine mixed with alcohol. other strong sedatives can have a similar effect.
Click to expand...

 @st232, what you describe does not sound like being drunk. Not being able to move indicates a drug like ketamine. Being awake but not having any control over your body sounds like a drug. What you describe is one of the things that makes 'date rape', or rape by drugs, so hard for the victim to deal with. On one level, your drink/drug addled mind is let loose and all sorts of thought run though it... as you describe. But it sounds like you did not physically participate in the sex. What you have described in more than one post is you just being there, unable to do anything and at times not even aware... like some of the sex happened when you were sleep. And this guy was just doing his thing with your body. It's a very confusing thing to go through. You feel guilty become on the one hand you had thoughts about doing this, and on the other hand you were not really part of what happened.


----------



## EleGirl

st232 said:


> I want to be with my husband.


I believe that a relationship, regardless of the baggage can be fixed and turned into a passionate, loving relationship.

You say that want to be with your husband. But you are clearly not in a good place in this relationship. Your husband is not in a good place either.

Have the two of you ever gone to counseling? What have the two of you done to heal from all his cheating? Since you have not brought up anything, my bet is that you two just toughed it out. This seldom works. 

Now that I've read all of your posts, I really believe that the two of you need counseling. You would benefit from going to counseling for yourself first, before you tell him what happened. Then when you tell him, ask him to join you in counseling. There are also some very good books that deal with healing from infidelity. While you may have decided to marry him, you are clearly not over his cheating on you. So you both have a lot of healing to do. And you both need to work to fix your marriage. It's clearly not working very well. But it can be rebuilt into a healthy relationship, even after all that has gone on.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Casual Observer said:


> Her original post included nothing supporting that view; the subsequent details came out only after the required TAM grilling. She volunteered very little in "defense" of herself. Here's the text of her original post-
> 
> _Hi.
> 
> I don't want to say this... I cheated on my husband. I hate saying that. I hate myself for doing it. I can't eat or sleep or stop crying or stop dry puking. I haven't told my husband yet and I don't how I'm going to do it. I know I have to tell him because he deserves to know. I don't want to lose my husband but I deserve it if I do. I hate how much I hurt him. I know what it feels like to be cheated on and I didn't think I would ever do that to someone. I wish this was a bad dream that I would wake up from. I don't know how to tell him and what to do for him I don't know how I'm going to stop crying long enough to get the words out.
> 
> Am I allowed to be here? I just don't know what to do_ ​She has been providing context, when asked, but she's not once suggested any part of that context was a reason or an excuse for what she did. On the other hand, some of the context providing sounds like this has been a marriage heading for failure for some time. Maybe she's the reason for that, maybe not. I'm just thinking there's some relevance to the idea this marriage was in a bad way before this happened, and fixing it may involve a lot more than just her coming clean and making promises.


Whether she said it in her opening post or in subsequent posts (when "pressed" which she knew she would be), she did say the things mentioned all of which sounds like justification accompanied by the "I take full responsibility" and "I am not trying to justify this" statements.

The marriage may indeed have been in trouble but that is not what is being discussed here and was certainly no reason to do what she did. What is being discussed here is how to help her come clean to her husband whom she claims to love in the least damaging (to him) way and this includes not saying it was a mistake, not minimising it, not trickle truthing, and not saying she didn't know why she did it or even if itwas a one night stand or not.

There is the ususal commentary about how we are all just projecting our wayward wives behaiour on to this poor unfortunate woman and how we don't understand women in bad marriages etc etc, but that should be taken with less than a pinch of salt. That is part of the converse of men projecting i.e. women justifying their sisters bad actions because of their misery and how they should be given credit for wanting to fix stuff.

What OP needs now is a cold hard look at her actions and what the ramifications are going to be and how best to handle them if she indeed does want to save this marriage and for the right reasons.

At the moment she keeps slipping some justification into what ever she says, steeped under tons of apology, seeming remorse and regret, as well as professions of love for the husband.


----------



## BruceBanner

Laurentium said:


> I think there is something to be said for that. It depends whether there is any risk of it getting found out.
> Like you, I know this view will not be popular with the betrayed spouses on the board. It sounds like "getting away with it". But it also spares husband and children a lot of pain.


If she cared enough about sparing her husband and children pain then she wouldn't have cheated in the first place.


----------



## arobk

EleGirl thank you. As I read through this thread I was wondering why no one mentioned the need for therapy. ST232 needs it, her husband needs it and if they want to stay together after they each have individual counselling then they need to have some couples counseling. This relationship is a train wreck. 

ST232 please don't stay in this relationship for the kids. You are actively teaching them that a dysfunctional relationship is acceptable. If you want to do the work to fix the relationship and your husband is also willing to do so also then go ahead and give it a shot, but if he refuses to work on fixing things or they just can't be fixed please get out for your kids mental health if not for your own.


----------



## [email protected]

st232, there are a number of inconsistencies in your story. For example, you love your H and want to be with him, but would not be with him if it were not for the kids. It's clear that you have a lot of residual anger about certain aspects of your marriage, but these have not really been addressed. Truthfully, I think you are looking for permission to bail.


----------



## MattMatt

As'laDain said:


> just so you know, the way you describe being wide awake and felt asleep just made me feel ice in my veins. look up what it feels like to have too much ketamine in your system, or ketamine mixed with alcohol. other strong sedatives can have a similar effect.


The same weird thing happened to me during my cheating event.

A friend of mine who wrote her dissertation on date rape drugs and had interviewed many date rape survivors for her report was convinced I had been given ecstasy or similar by the female "friend" I was with.


----------



## MattMatt

[email protected] said:


> st232, there are a number of inconsistencies in your story. For example, you love your H and want to be with him, but would not be with him if it were not for the kids. It's clear that you have a lot of residual anger about certain aspects of your marriage, but these have not really been addressed. Truthfully, I think you are looking for permission to bail.


Or wants a better marriage with the man she loves?


----------



## Mr.Married

ST232,

The weekend is fast approaching. 

Your going to do the right thing.

Good luck !!


------------------------------------------------------------------

I know others have there views. I'm only offering mine:

It was smaller than his, no you didn't orgasm, no you didn't give him anything you haven't given your husband.

No need to kick him between the legs while he is already down.

That's just my take on it.

Again: Good Luck !


----------



## MattMatt

BruceBanner said:


> If she cared enough about sparing her husband and children pain then she wouldn't have cheated in the first place.


Yeah, and if wishes were horses beggars would ride.

If you can't say anything with more depth than what you said how about saying nothing?

She KNOWS she did wrong! She said that in her FIRST post.

We get it, she gets it. Why can't you?


----------



## notmyjamie

st232 said:


> I would rather choose to be in the dark.


You definitely need some therapy. Your method of dealing with problems is to avoid them and that's just not healthy. You avoid what's really happening in your marriage. You're avoiding dealing with the fact that by law, you were raped. Now, I get that some women don't believe that...you feel you chose to drink so it's your fault. But guess what, you should be able to be falling down drunk and not have someone get on top of you and screw you. And the more you describe this event, the more I am convinced you had more than alcohol in your system. 

I understand not wanting to give up your marriage even if it's a crappy one. I lived in a crappy one for many years and the only thing I have to show for those years is regret. I finally put myself first and left my husband. My kids are doing fine. They wish we were still together but they are dealing with it and moving on and so will yours. But, if you do want to stay, you need to at least get individual counseling and marriage counseling.

You are stronger than you think.


----------



## MattMatt

notmyjamie said:


> You definitely need some therapy. Your method of dealing with problems is to avoid them and that's just not healthy. You avoid what's really happening in your marriage. You're avoiding dealing with the fact that by law, you were raped. Now, I get that some women don't believe that...you feel you chose to drink so it's your fault. But guess what, you should be able to be falling down drunk and not have someone get on top of you and screw you. And the more you describe this event, the more I am convinced you had more than alcohol in your system.
> 
> I understand not wanting to give up your marriage even if it's a crappy one. I lived in a crappy one for many years and the only thing I have to show for those years is regret. I finally put myself first and left my husband. My kids are doing fine. They wish we were still together but they are dealing with it and moving on and so will yours. But, if you do want to stay, you need to at least get individual counseling and marriage counseling.
> 
> You are stronger than you think.



Why did I drink a ridiculous amount of alcohol when I was with a woman other than my wife? Looking back on it with self-analysis it was because I wanted to numb my conscience in order to be drunk enough to cheat.

Yeah, very messed up thinking, but once I established that in my mind I was able to go forward. I was lucky in that full sex did not occur, otherwise I'd have really broken myself.


----------



## manfromlamancha

OP let me clarify what has been said so that its clear to everyone giving you advice but also clear to you:

Your hubby was not the greatest of boyfriends prior to getting married. Yet you decided to forgive him for God knows what reason. He gave you a hall pass to even the playing field which you (wisely) did not take. You went ahead and married him.

He has been faithful ever since. Your sex life is not great and you definitely have marital issues.

So why did you not divorce him and leave ? Your answer is that you love him though for the life of me, I cannot understand why. Maybe its because of what EleGirl says - you are trying to prove to him that you are still desirable. Moreover, he has stayed with you and I do not know why. Especially since you say he does not find you attractive. Was this always the case ? Why did the two of you get married ?

In your last post, even you admit that your (somewhat angry) response to what I said was a wave of blame and justification only to be told later that his cheating was before you got married and he has apologised and even given you the opportunity to even the score. Even if he had done this after the marriage, it would not have been justification for you to cheat too and by your own admission, two wrongs do not make a right.

For some of the others commenting on this thread, this does not shut anybody up. And the idea is not to shut anybody up but to give the OP the best possible advice. The "sister" brigade really needs to chill while helping the OP.

OP, here is my tuppence worth of observations and advice:

You sound like an honest and genuine person so lets not beat yourself up over anything like that. You are not the first person to do this and you will not be the last (sounds like I am trying to justify this but I am not). What it does mean is that there is stuff you can do about this but you really need to know why.

You made a decision to sleep with your ex long before the alcohol even hit. And it was a concious decision maybe based on longing, lack of sex, lack of self worth or a combination of all of those. But it was a bad decision.

In my opinion, the advice coming from AffairCare and EleGirl is the most sound. 

I will repeat what I said:

Do not try and justify this when telling him.

Be honest but respectful and empathetic to his feelings at this stage.

Do tell him - you will be consumed by guilt if you do not and it is the right thing to do.

Give him the level of detail he asks for no matter how hard it will be to tell him.

And most of all, examine why you say you love and still want to be with him and then go and cheat on the other hand. You really need to get to the bottom of this. Do you want to stay with him due to fear of the unknown, lack of stability, kids, reputation what ? If it is genuinely love, then you need to examine why you love him. Was he always cold with regard to sex ? What attracted you to him ? Has that disappeared? Why would you want to stay in a marriage like this even if you really loved him?

Finally, you need to work on yourself and building yourself back up to the person you used to be prior to this.

In preparation:

He is going to be gutted. He will feel emasculated and will almost certainly compare himself to the POSOM. Be ready for him going through waves of sadness, anger, bewilderment, panic etc. Your marriage may not survive this and you need to be ready for that too. It is a good idea to get some counselling for yourself before you tell him. It will help you to prepare for what is coming and handle yourself better. There is no easy solution. Even if you both decide to reconcile, it will take years for him to cope with this. Just as it has taken you years to cope with his stuff even though it was from before you were married and made any vows.

I do commend you for taking the flak and being honest here. And I do hope that things work out for you and by that, I do not necessarily mean reconcile but rather recover your self worth and be with someone that you genuinely love, and who genuinely loves you. This might be your husband or it might not.

Good luck!


----------



## In Absentia

I'm amazed at the psychological self-harming we can inflict on ourselves... and I know by experience.


----------



## VladDracul

st232 said:


> He's hasn't cheated during our marriage. I knew what our past was and agreed to it when we married. Two wrongs don't make a right. I broke vows not him.


Come on ST, you know your marriage to this brute in no where near what you signed up for. Cheating ain't the only vow and he's made mincemeat out of all of them. If he thinks making love to you is too much work and telling you another woman taste bad, he's the biggest and cruelest SOB I've heard about in a long time. My take is he's still tom catting around. Why wouldn't he. At 32 and his history, I'd be willing to bet old widow thumb and her four daughters is not something he'd settle for. Do you really believe wedding vows is enough to keep a man with his morals on the straight and narrow. With no respect for you or the marriage, ain't no incentive for him to walk the line. He likely wanted the kids at MIL and get yo out of town so could get it on in town. 
Besides, the only reason you married him is your prior investment and kids from the relationship. You may as well admit this cat is not what you want for a husband, you have little romantic interest in him, (what woman would) and that's the reason you took comfort in another man. I know you feel lucky if he walks and could be the basis why you're chomping at the bits to tell him what a bad girl you've been. I know deep down you feel that bastard had it coming.


----------



## MattMatt

manfromlamancha said:


> OP let me clarify what has been said so that its clear to everyone giving you advice but also clear to you:
> 
> Your hubby was not the greatest of boyfriends prior to getting married. Yet you decided to forgive him for God knows what reason. He gave you a hall pass to even the playing field which you (wisely) did not take. You went ahead and married him.
> 
> He has been faithful ever since. Your sex life is not great and you definitely have marital issues.
> 
> So why did you not divorce him and leave ? Your answer is that you love him though for the life of me, I cannot understand why. Maybe its because of what EleGirl says - you are trying to prove to him that you are still desirable. Moreover, he has stayed with you and I do not know why. Especially since you say he does not find you attractive. Was this always the case ? Why did the two of you get married ?
> 
> In your last post, even you admit that your (somewhat angry) response to what I said was a wave of blame and justification only to be told later that his cheating was before you got married and he has apologised and even given you the opportunity to even the score. Even if he had done this after the marriage, it would not have been justification for you to cheat too and by your own admission, two wrongs do not make a right.
> 
> For some of the others commenting on this thread, this does not shut anybody up. And the idea is not to shut anybody up but to give the OP the best possible advice. The "sister" brigade really needs to chill while helping the OP.
> 
> OP, here is my tuppence worth of observations and advice:
> 
> You sound like an honest and genuine person so lets not beat yourself up over anything like that. You are not the first person to do this and you will not be the last (sounds like I am trying to justify this but I am not). What it does mean is that there is stuff you can do about this but you really need to know why.
> 
> You made a decision to sleep with your ex long before the alcohol even hit. And it was a concious decision maybe based on longing, lack of sex, lack of self worth or a combination of all of those. But it was a bad decision.
> 
> In my opinion, the advice coming from AffairCare and EleGirl is the most sound.
> 
> I will repeat what I said:
> 
> Do not try and justify this when telling him.
> 
> Be honest but respectful and empathetic to his feelings at this stage.
> 
> Do tell him - you will be consumed by guilt if you do not and it is the right thing to do.
> 
> Give him the level of detail he asks for no matter how hard it will be to tell him.
> 
> And most of all, examine why you say you love and still want to be with him and then go and cheat on the other hand. You really need to get to the bottom of this. Do you want to stay with him due to fear of the unknown, lack of stability, kids, reputation what ? If it is genuinely love, then you need to examine why you love him. Was he always cold with regard to sex ? What attracted you to him ? Has that disappeared? Why would you want to stay in a marriage like this even if you really loved him?
> 
> Finally, you need to work on yourself and building yourself back up to the person you used to be prior to this.
> 
> In preparation:
> 
> He is going to be gutted. He will feel emasculated and will almost certainly compare himself to the POSOM. Be ready for him going through waves of sadness, anger, bewilderment, panic etc. Your marriage may not survive this and you need to be ready for that too. It is a good idea to get some counselling for yourself before you tell him. It will help you to prepare for what is coming and handle yourself better. There is no easy solution. Even if you both decide to reconcile, it will take years for him to cope with this. Just as it has taken you years to cope with his stuff even though it was from before you were married and made any vows.
> 
> I do commend you for taking the flak and being honest here. And I do hope that things work out for you and by that, I do not necessarily mean reconcile but rather recover your self worth and be with someone that you genuinely love, and who genuinely loves you. This might be your husband or it might not.
> 
> Good luck!


*Moderator Note: * 

Actually, the people who need to chill and/or step away from this thread are those who just cannot resist breaking the forum rules. 

Folks, are *you* thinking of blasting the OP because she did something that reminded you of your former wife? Thinking of making a really very smart remark that you either didn't think of making to your former wife at the time, or just weren't brave enough to do it back then at a time when it might have made sense?

Well... Here is a newsflash- * the OP Is.Not.Your.Former.Wife.*

If you cannot read this thread without getting triggered or bent all out of shape, please do yourself and everyone else a favour and put the OP on ignore and avoid this thread. It'll benefit you and everyone else.


----------



## TJW

@Affaircare has given you some very, very good, and practical advice. You really do seem to "get it". I'm so hopeful for your good future, I think you have been given an excellent and functional moral compass, and I know that it will lead you correctly.

You have not blamed your husband for your actions. This is highly commendable, and this will give you the best chance at marriage re-build. Keep your course, it's right.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

st232 said:


> I don't want to leave him or lose him. Everything in my marriage I agreed to when I married him. I knew what I was signing up for and agreed to put it behind us. Two wrongs don't make a right. I can ***** about my marriage but it's the one I chose. Theres no you did it first in marriage.


What's the PAYOFF for staying with a sleazy serial cheater who couldn't even show you a *modicum* of respect when you were carrying his child, and was out screwing anything he could get his hands on? There *has* to be a payoff for you clinging to this guy like grim death no matter how many times he's kicked you in the face. It's sad, but the more he's screwed you over, the more you seem to cling to him. I feel so bad for you that you don't think you deserve better than this man.

Every time you chose to stay with him after you found out he'd cheated on you *yet again*, you sent him the message that he could disrespect you to your core and you'd *still *be right there, hanging on like grim death. But the bigger message you've sent him countless times is that you don't respect _yourself _enough to demand better in your life.

And after all those years of slimy, sleazy serial cheating, do you honestly believe he's suddenly become a saint after he got married?  I wouldn't bank on it. Serial cheaters don't just stop cheating because you want them to or because they get married. He's a serial cheater so he lacks remorse of any kind. It's that lack of remorse that just lets them do it over and over and over. I'd be willing to bet the so-called "Kleenex" you _think_ he's spending all that time with (because he doesn't want to have sex with you) doesn't come from Proctor & Gamble but likely has a name - and an apartment across town.

I honestly have exactly *zero* sympathy for your husband. Just tell him the truth. *All* of it. Even about the other guy being better endowed and that you did things with him that you haven't with your husband. In your husband's case, I think brutal *100% honesty *is the best policy.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

st232 said:


> My husband has said sex with me isn't worth it for years. Before we married and he still says it. If I would respond well to "wanna ****?" and no foreplay and get over my insecurities and not need any time together after then he would probably want sex more often. Its not worth him putting in effort so jerking off wins.


Wow.

You've managed to whittle away *all* of your boundaries and expectations in order to stay with this degenerate. And as is the case with most co-dependents, you're using your kids as an excuse to continue clinging to him. "*I'm staying for the kids*" is the biggest lie a BS tells themselves in order to justify staying with someone who won't even show them the same amount of respect most of us show the common stranger on the street.

You need to seriously look into breaking your co-dependency to this emotional abuser because this is not going to end well. It's not, regardless if you cheated or not.


----------



## lifeistooshort

OP, I'm not sure why you're so bent on saving a marriage to a guy who tells you that sex with you is too much work, let alone one who was a serial cheater.

I'm not at all surprised that you'd be vulnerable to a guy who showed some actual interest. 

Would it be better if you hadn't done it? Of course, but to be honest I really don't feel bad for your husband.

I do think you should tell him, and frankly if he isn't able to forgive you after what he's put you through you're much better off without him.

I think you'd be better off without him anyway, but for reasons I don't understand you still want to be married to him so give it a shot.


----------



## VladDracul

TJW said:


> [MENTION=10177]
> You have not blamed your husband for your actions. This is highly commendable, and this will give you the best chance at marriage re-build. Keep your course, it's right.


She doesn't have to blame her husband for her actions. She has me to do that and defend her based on the reality of why she took that road. (assuming she is telling the truth) Marriage re-building my azz. She need to ditch this guy. You would want your daughter of sister yoked to jerk like him. Hell, I recommend she start looking around for and sizing up a replacement before she ultimately ditches his azz. She may sound like it now but ain't no way she's going to be happy living in that hell hole for decades to come.

I hated pushing the girl like I did in my first post but I sensed there was more for her to put on the table than her simply going to reunion and getting laid and now feel guilty about it. Women that would do that in a presumable good marriage wouldn't feel guilty, the old man would never know, and it would be business as usual as she settle back with a man she's with for only security.


----------



## arbitrator

*I, for one, certainly don't believe in retaliatory politics within the confines of a marital union ~ far from it!

But in my candid assessment, one cannot let ones lurid past control the destiny of their future relationship together!

And it certainly does no good to go "tit for tat" and to stoop to their unconscionable level!

Ergo: an honest and forthright confession is good for the soul!

Have the two of you ever lent serious consideration to the option of joint marital or pastoral counseling?*


----------



## personofinterest

Exactly like I said, even her husband's horrible actions are now being spun to accuse her further. It would be funny if it weren't so pathetically say head. In my mind, the reason the original poster finally snapped and spewed all of that stuff about his past is because she was tired of getting beat up and couldn't take it anymore. I don't blame her. Seriously, if someone cannot contain their own projection and baggage, it would be more mature to just not post to a cheating wife.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

personofinterest said:


> Exactly like I said, even her husband's horrible actions are now being spun to accuse her further. It would be funny if it weren't so pathetically say head. In my mind, the reason the original poster finally snapped and spewed all of that stuff about his past is because she was tired of getting beat up and couldn't take it anymore. I don't blame her. Seriously, if someone cannot contain their own projection and baggage, it would be more mature to just not post to a cheating wife.


Exactly!!!

This thread started off with pages of posts where OP didn't mention a single thing about her husband's pathetic behavior. She completely and totally owned her behavior and didn't try to excuse, mitigate or blame shift one damn bit. 

She only shared hubby's flaws later after the peanut gallery kept pressing her for more info... then they turn it on her and use as some sort of fabricated proof of her lack of remorse or continued excuse making. Very sad. Of all the waywards who have posted on these boards (at least since I've been around), this one is easily the most genuine. 
@st232
I won't condone your action, just as you don't condone your action. You have taken responsibility and not ducked the issue one bit. So I wouldn't condemn you at this point either. You have been in a very tough situation for a long time. Something was bound to blow up; it was just a question of what form the blow up would take. 

You have no doubt gained some badly needed wisdom and you also seem to be gaining strength; at least you have the strength to take responsibility for your actions, which puts you well ahead of most waywards.... hell, that alone puts you ahead of most humans, period. Now, it's time to grow that strength further to determine with open eyes the best way to proceed. It seems most of those not in the bash the wayward camp are squarely in the 'get out of that horrible marriage" camp. You need not limit yourself to those two points of view. 

Hopefully, you can use this painful sequence of events as a catalyst. Apply your growing personal strength to see things clearly and act accordingly. Whether that's reconciliation or divorce, cutting ties or struggling to find a way to make it work, really only you can decide. Just bear in mind that whatever efforts you are willing to put forward to salvage things can only succeed if your husband is committed to putting in the same level of effort. You can only control you. After all you've said in sharing the rest of your story, I fear your husband's lack of commitment to you prior to your cheating is actually a bigger barrier to the success of your marriage than how he might react to you confessing your action.


----------



## notmyjamie

MattMatt said:


> Why did I drink a ridiculous amount of alcohol when I was with a woman other than my wife? Looking back on it with self-analysis it was because I wanted to numb my conscience in order to be drunk enough to cheat.
> 
> Yeah, very messed up thinking, but once I established that in my mind I was able to go forward. I was lucky in that full sex did not occur, otherwise I'd have really broken myself.


Messed up thinking but perfectly understandable. I had a very fleeting moment before I left my husband when I was out to dinner with an ex boyfriend who had made it clear he wanted to sleep with me. The waitress came to ask if we wanted more drinks and for a nano second I thought if I had a third drink I’d end up sleeping with him and it has been a very long time since a man wanted me. But I just couldn’t do it so I asked for a water. So I really do understand. 

And for the record, I think a women sleeping with a man who is too drunk to consent also meets the legal definition of rape. I doubt you felt that way though. I wouldn’t feel that way unless it was a stranger but I would feel taken advantage of by someone I knew unless he was super drunk too. 

I’ve never been as drunk as you describe so maybe OP’s description is normal for that much alcohol but it is definitely too drunk to consent. I firmly believe this man took advantage of her drunken state and makes me sad for her.


----------



## MattMatt

notmyjamie said:


> Messed up thinking but perfectly understandable. I had a very fleeting moment before I left my husband when I was out to dinner with an ex boyfriend who had made it clear he wanted to sleep with me. The waitress came to ask if we wanted more drinks and for a nano second I thought if I had a third drink I’d end up sleeping with him and it has been a very long time since a man wanted me. But I just couldn’t do it so I asked for a water. So I really do understand.
> 
> And for the record, I think a women sleeping with a man who is too drunk to consent also meets the legal definition of rape. I doubt you felt that way though. I wouldn’t feel that way unless it was a stranger but I would feel taken advantage of by someone I knew unless he was super drunk too.
> 
> I’ve never been as drunk as you describe so maybe OP’s description is normal for that much alcohol but it is definitely too drunk to consent. I firmly believe this man took advantage of her drunken state and makes me sad for her.


Plus it became clear OW slipped something into my drink/s
Still if I hadn't have been there, it wouldn't have happened.


----------



## wilson

st232 said:


> If we didn't have kids, no I would not be with him. I would have left him the first time. I don't play what if games. We do have kids and I am with him.


It's good to stay for the kids, but only on the condition that it's a healthy environment for them. Keep that in mind as you go forward. Kids can have a healthy environment in one home or two. Kids can have a toxic environment in one home or two. Being in one home, in and of itself, doesn't automatically mean it's a healthy environment. You and your husband have to create a safe and comforting environment for them.


----------



## Decorum

Op, to add something constructive.

Resentment can lead to entitlement. It is part of a victim mentality, and in a case like this can foster a desire for validation.

The feeling, "I am entitled to this", can be a litmus test to the presence of unresolved resentment.

Imo, going forward (and after the smoke clears, and assuming you two decide to reconcile) unresolved resentment should ultimately be your litmus test as to whether this is a healthy relationship you should remain in.

Obviously if there is no improvement in the relationship then it will be near impossible to avoid resentment, and you have your answer.

Resentment/bitterness and guilt are two poisons that our systems are not designed to endure without significant damage to our person.

Don't make this more complicated than it is.

Make healthy choices, I wish you well!


----------



## personofinterest

Decorum said:


> Op, to add something constructive.
> 
> Resentment can lead to entitlement. It is part of a victim mentality, and in a case like this can foster a desire for validation.
> 
> The feeling, "I am entitled to this", can be a litmus test to the presence of unresolved resentment.
> 
> Imo, going forward (and after the smoke clears, and assuming you two decide to reconcile) unresolved resentment should ultimately be your litmus test as to whether this is a healthy relationship you should remain in.
> 
> Obviously if there is no improvement in the relationship then it will be near impossible to avoid resentment, and you have your answer.
> 
> Resentment/bitterness and guilt are two poisons that our systems are not designed to endure without significant damage to our person.
> 
> Don't make this more complicated than it is.
> 
> Make healthy choices, I wish you well!


So you no longer think he should drop her like a hot potato?


----------



## Taxman

I have been around this for way too long and let’s cut to the chase: there was a long period of resentment. Sex sucked. He had multiple affairs before marriage. He offered a hall pass. So this was revenge. Whether or not you acknowledge it.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

st232 said:


> Being drunk isnt an excuse. It made what I did easier. I know how I get when I'm drunk and chose to drink anyway. I was just as drunk when the sex started as when it finished. The last time by the time I woke up and came to he was already in me. The first two times were more like one long time. I couldn't have left the bed if I wanted to. I crawled to the bathroom to throw up... my proudest moment.
> 
> The note didn't feel good but that isn't why I'm upset... I cheated on my husband. I broke my vows 2 years after I made them. I wanted to take a bleach bath, go home and be with my husband and forget what I did. *I don't want either of them.* I'm not upset about a note I'm upset that I cheated on my husband. I could have predicted the note. I didn't want him 15 years ago and don't now either.
> 
> It has nothing to do with my brother. We're twins. He's my best friend. He'd have known something was wrong without seeing anything.


Ok I am on page 7. I will have to read and catch up, but the bolded caught my eye. You don't want your husband and you don't want your ONS guy? Or there are two ONS guys that you don't want?


----------



## personofinterest

FieryHairedLady said:


> st232 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being drunk isnt an excuse. It made what I did easier. I know how I get when I'm drunk and chose to drink anyway. I was just as drunk when the sex started as when it finished. The last time by the time I woke up and came to he was already in me. The first two times were more like one long time. I couldn't have left the bed if I wanted to. I crawled to the bathroom to throw up... my proudest moment.
> 
> The note didn't feel good but that isn't why I'm upset... I cheated on my husband. I broke my vows 2 years after I made them. I wanted to take a bleach bath, go home and be with my husband and forget what I did. *I don't want either of them.* I'm not upset about a note I'm upset that I cheated on my husband. I could have predicted the note. I didn't want him 15 years ago and don't now either.
> 
> It has nothing to do with my brother. We're twins. He's my best friend. He'd have known something was wrong without seeing anything.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok I am on page 7. I will have to read and catch up, but the bolded caught my eye. You don't want your husband and you don't want your ONS guy? Or there are two ONS guys that you don't want?
Click to expand...

Yeah.....that isn't what she meant, and you should probably read the last few pages....


----------



## turnera

Can you specify what you think your life would look like if you took the kids and moved out?


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

st232 said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That kinda does justify your actions and changes everything. So why all the guilt about hurting your cheating husband? In other words why all the hand wringing from your first several posts.
> 
> 
> 
> He's hasn't cheated during our marriage. I knew what our past was and agreed to it when we married. Two wrongs don't make a right. I broke vows not him.
Click to expand...

Yes, I suppose that is a good point.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

[email protected] said:


> st232, there are a number of inconsistencies in your story. For example, you love your H and want to be with him, but would not be with him if it were not for the kids. It's clear that you have a lot of residual anger about certain aspects of your marriage, but these have not really been addressed. Truthfully, I think you are looking for permission to bail.


Hell, permission granted! After reading what their relationship has been like, I'd advise to skip coming clean to him, shake off the guilt and just divorce him. He wasnt worth marrying in the first place. I dont condone cheating, I dont condone what she did, but she has been abused by this man long enough. Mistake was made by marrying him, which you cant go back and change, but no need to continue the mistake forever. There is happiness to be had, but not here.


----------



## sigma1299

Well with all the new informaton... I'd tell him. I get his indiscretion was before the 'marriage' but he certainly cannot claim the moral high ground. You're right two wrongs don't make a right but they might make a tie. If you tell him and he stays you can both reset and see where you go from there... if you tell him and he leaves well, he's a hypocrite and as broken as things are you're likely better off.

As broken as the situation is, were it me, I wouldn't add carrying a lie to the mix. I'd put my cards on the table and see if we couldn't find a reset somehow, and if not I'd move on. But that's just my opinion.


----------



## personofinterest

Taxman said:


> I have been around this for way too long and let’s cut to the chase: there was a long period of resentment. Sex sucked. He had multiple affairs before marriage. He offered a hall pass. So this was revenge. Whether or not you acknowledge it.


 I applaud your mind reading skills. However, it is very very possible that you are wrong.


----------



## drifting on

What exactly made your husband stop cheating? 
What finally made him make a commitment to only you, and honor it? 
Please don’t tell me his vows, he should have been committed way before the marriage.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

sigma1299 said:


> Well with all the new informaton... I'd tell him. I get his indiscretion was before the 'marriage' but he certainly cannot claim the moral high ground. *You're right two wrongs don't make a right but they might make a tie. If you tell him and he stays you can both reset and see where you go from there...* if you tell him and he leaves well, he's a hypocrite and as broken as things are you're likely better off.
> 
> As broken as the situation is, were it me, I wouldn't add carrying a lie to the mix. I'd put my cards on the table and see if we couldn't find a reset somehow, and if not I'd move on. But that's just my opinion.


I agree with this. I'd even say sometimes evening the score is needed to rebalance the relationship...


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Ok I am all caught up.

WOW!

That was alot.

I think you are in a neglected, emotionally & sexually abusive relationship. This relationship is not good for your mental health. 


Yes you did choose to marry him knowing of his past.

You also have kids together which must of weighed heavily in that decision.


Is this love? Is this commitment? Is this the husband you want? Is this the marriage you want to show your kids?


I can't remember who said this recently on the forum, but it was something like 'Is it better for a kid to come from a broken home, or to have to continue to live in that broken home?'


What are you showing your kids? 


Normally I would advocate for telling the spouse. You haven't had sex with him yet, don't. You could be putting his health in danger. 


You really do need some counseling to get your head on straight.


I think you need to figure out what you really want. Yes marriage is important. It should not be taken lightly. 

But this does not sound like marriage. 


You say he has been faithful since the vows were spoken, 2 years ago. Ok, I am all for marriage and that piece of paper, making it legal, etc. 


But in reality, you two were supposed to be in an exclusive, committed relationship prior to the 2 years of "marriage" that produced 2 children. A piece of paper and some vows didn't change that.

You two have been in this serious relationship for 10(?) years. 


Yes you need to get tested. Keep your mouth shut for now. Do some digging. You need to find out who this person named "Kleenex" is. Or who their names are?


He may of chosen to marry you for the sake of the kids. And his indiscretions may of gone underground.


No matter what: Get std test, keep quiet for now. Find out what he did last week and what has he been doing? Find out if he is still cheating.

Option 1: 

If you find out he is still cheating. Are you going to put up with this some more? IS this the kind of life you want for your kids? He is putting your health at risk. You could get cancer. You need to want better for yourself & the kids. 

If you DO decide to leave. I don't think you should tell him what you did. Because then that 1 time will be all you hear about and he will smear your name around town. Don't have sex with him again. 

Option 2: 

If you DO decide to stay: you should tell him what you did. Lay the cards on the table. Prepare for WW3 to break out. He may start cheating again, he may feel justified, if he isn't already.


----------



## notmyjamie

MattMatt said:


> Plus it became clear OW slipped something into my drink/s
> Still if I hadn't have been there, it wouldn't have happened.


Well that is rape and I'm sorry you had that happen to you. 

You probably don't think of it that way, but it meets the legal definition of rape. And you do not know what you would have done if you hadn't been drugged. I am living proof that a person can back away from temptation. Having a few drinks, hell, even getting a bit drunk doesn't change a person's fundamental nature. But rhohypnal will and my friend who tested positive described her encounter exactly as you and OP described yours. But again, being tempted is not adultery and you have no idea what you would have done with that temptation if that drug hadn't been slipped to you. 

I think OP is in the same position. Although the only way to know is to be tested, I strongly believe she was slipped something as well. Her descriptions are just too close to how people describe themselves after taking this drug. I guess it comes down to which is worse, to know you were violated or to know you went against your morals and cheated. Only the OP can decide for herself. Either way, I think some therapy is in order to work through it all.


----------



## VladDracul

drifting on said:


> What exactly made your husband stop cheating?


Just a WAG but I'd bet he hasn't. Why would a leopard, or in this case, an alley cat, change his stripes, errrrr spots.


----------



## VladDracul

Taxman said:


> I have been around this for way too long and let’s cut to the chase: there was a long period of resentment. Sex sucked. He had multiple affairs before marriage. He offered a hall pass. So this was revenge. Whether or not you acknowledge it.


Ordinarily it wouldn't necessarily be a revenge thing. She could have thought, "What the hell. He's been banging other women. I might as well enjoy the full moxie of what this old boy is offering". However, she did hint around about maybe telling her old man certain details about tools and techniques this guy has. I think she may be looking for a little payback. And who can blame her. He's got it coming.
make no mistake about it. The honeymoon is over.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

personofinterest said:


> I agree. If one isn't interested in helping the poster, one should refrain.


 Arguing with other posters incessantly thread after thread isn't helping any OPs either, so you should probably take your own advice and chill the **** out on the judgemental rebuking of other posters and focus on the OPs as well.


----------



## EleGirl

Rubix Cubed said:


> Arguing with other posters incessantly thread after thread isn't helping any OPs either, so you should probably take your own advice and chill the **** out on the judgemental rebuking of other posters and focus on the OPs as well.


I agree with this. 

And yes, I'm speaking as a moderator.


----------



## EleGirl

@st232

Things on this thread of taken quite a turn. And you have not posted since that happened. 

Are you OK? I'm concerned for you.


----------



## st232

EleGirl said:


> @st232
> 
> Things on this thread of taken quite a turn. And you have not posted since that happened.
> 
> Are you OK? I'm concerned for you.


I don't know what to say or think or do. 

I don't ever talk about my past with anyone. Now that I have typed it out its hard to shove it back down where it belongs. I don't want to be mad about the past. 

I don't want to go down the rape path. I chose to be there. I was too drunk and cheated. I thought if I drank enough it would be easy and it wasn't enough so I kept downing drinks until I was 8-9 drinks down. I didn't do much other than be there to have sex with but it was my choice to drink that much, to take him back to my hotel with me, to have sex with him. It felt good. I wanted to do it. I chose to sleep with a guy whose been in jail for drug dealing if I was given something thats entirely my fault. 

I haven't talked to my husband yet. I don't know what to do now. I should do it asap, not at all, wait a while, lie, tell the truth. 

I don't want to think about my husband cheating still. He hasn't done anything to deserve that. I can't accuse him of cheating again to justify my own. He stopped. He promised that.


----------



## VladDracul

ST, do whatever you feel you need to do in your own time frame. Ain't no requirement you tell him today, yesterday, tomorrow, soon, or not at all. Get your ducks in a row, think it out, and do what's right for you. My only caveat is to be careful overlooking the disrespect and bad treatment by others. As you discovered, a person can only do that for so long. 

Your perspective of your married life, and your contribution to the experiences you have with your husband is different than the perspectives we formulate based on what you tell us. You saw our perspectives change as you revealed more information. Taking you story at face value, I sensed their was a hell of a lot more to your story from the get go and it needed to come out to keep folks from piling on giving you further confirmation, and incentive to kick yourself even more. Nevertheless, the reason you decided drink and cheat while out of town is clear; the part of you that believes the treatment you endure is acceptable and what you signed on for when you married is in conflict with with part of you that says, "This ain't how a husband should treat his wife and I'm sick of feeling down graded, disrespected and inadequate because of it" That part won out and seized the opportunity to temporarily escape it and, to me, that speaks volumes. You can't write it off as a lapse in judgement.

Deal with this matter with your husband however you wish but sooner or later you're going to need to deal with yourself because, if I'm right, his treatment of you will not improve.


----------



## manfromlamancha

You need to get counselling for yourself first before you do anything and asap. It will help you understand where you are, what you really want and whether you really want to stay in this marriage. It might also give you a clue towards why you did it (maybe).

Then once you are grounded, tell him as advised before. No trickle truthing but no disrespect.

By then you will know if you really want to reconcile or go your separate ways. Then act accordingly. Either way its going to be tough and a long journey.


----------



## TJW

st232 said:


> I don't know what to say or think or do.


I'm sure that's so very true. It's a very hard thing to deal with. But, for whatever it's worth, and I know it's not a lot, I'm with you on this. You are demonstrating the most Godly position I have ever read on this website. You are focusing on yourself, and yourself alone, and what you must do going forward. You are not blaming your husband, or any external "forces" for your choice. You recognize your choices as unwise, you stopped your affair immediately, came home, and returned to honoring your vows. This is all that can be expected of any of us humans.

If my XWS had come to me, with words and attitudes like you are displaying and using, I know that God, she, and I together would have found a way to rebuild our marriage. I cannot say that this would have been easy, but I would have been thoroughly committed to it. I was thoroughly committed to it for a long time, even in her unwillingness to come to a repentant attitude.

I think you should not rush yourself into it. You should take time, pray about it, and ask God to give you the right words. I believe that He will. And, I believe, that because you are honoring His principles and acting in obedience to His word, He will bring forth the very best results possible for you.

@Affaircare and others on this thread have given you right advice, and have posted about your dilemmas, predicaments, sorrows, and given you caring and compassionate help.


----------



## personofinterest

OP, I applaud the consistency with which you have taken responsibility for your behavior.

I still think you need to tell your husband because of who YOU are. I don't think your character will allow you to keep this secret, which is a GOOD thing.


----------



## dreamer2017

Dear ST,

I will offer you my opinion, and remember, this is only my opinion. Like I said before, you are not a bad person but made some bad choices like all of us in life. It is my opinion, you should keep your original timeframe and tell him this weekend. The worst that could happen is someone else would inform him of your affair. Don't be surprised if others show you and know about your activities. Take a deep breath, think about what you going to say. Once it's out in the open, you can start rebuilding. Who knows, your marriage might become better than before.

Best to you and your family and I'm pulling for all of you.

Dreamer


----------



## TJW

dreamer2017 said:


> Once it's out in the open, you can start rebuilding. Who knows, your marriage might become better than before.


As you and your husband do the work of rebuilding, yes, it is possible your marriage will get better than it was prior to your affair. The affair is now a "hurdle" which has to be jumped. But you are in the correct mindset and in the correct spirit to jump proficiently.


----------



## turnera

What you need now more than anything is to find a therapist and start going regularly. If anyone can help you see a good path forward, it will be a therapist. She won't hype you up to make you feel good, she will hold you accountable as you seem to want to be, yet she will help you see the GOOD in you and the VALUE in you so that you can make healthy, sound choices moving forward. 

Please make an appointment today.


----------



## Blondilocks

VladDracul said:


> Come on ST, you know your marriage to this brute in no where near what you signed up for. Cheating ain't the only vow and he's made mincemeat out of all of them. If he thinks making love to you is too much work and telling you another woman taste bad, he's the biggest and cruelest SOB I've heard about in a long time. My take is he's still tom catting around. Why wouldn't he. At 32 and his history, I'd be willing to bet old widow thumb and her four daughters is not something he'd settle for. Do you really believe wedding vows is enough to keep a man with his morals on the straight and narrow. With no respect for you or the marriage, ain't no incentive for him to walk the line. He likely wanted the kids at MIL and get yo out of town so could get it on in town.
> Besides, the only reason you married him is your prior investment and kids from the relationship. You may as well admit this cat is not what you want for a husband, you have little romantic interest in him, (what woman would) and that's the reason you took comfort in another man. I know you feel lucky if he walks and could be the basis why you're chomping at the bits to tell him what a bad girl you've been. *I know deep down you feel that bastard had it coming.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> She wouldn't be the only one. I hope she plays the "it was only sex" card. Karma is a *****.


----------



## Mr.Married

Blondilocks said:


> She wouldn't be the only one. I hope she plays the "it was only sex" card. Karma is a *****.


Well you couldn't exactly say he is the king of hearts...


----------



## MattMatt

*Moderator Message:*

Folks, please! This thread is complex enough without unhelpful threadjacks.
@st232 has come here for help and advice. Not threadjacks.


----------



## [email protected]

I think she should file for D. Most likely the M is dead.


----------



## Decorum

Fear, guilt, shame, resentment, bitterness, anger, disgust, hopelessness. 

Could this be why you are so conflicted?

The only way out is to take the path of responsibility. 

Finding excuses for your behavior will only lead to mental illness, depression, and dependencies.

You have to reclaim who you are!

It does not matter who someone else is.

All you have is you. Don't give up on that!

The path out of this is very straight. It is a highway and once you choose to get on it, the direction forward becomes very clear.

The convoluted path of rationalization, deception, and justification leads only to a loss of happiness, a loss of purpose, and a loss of integrity, that is a loss of self.

Cheating changes you, it changes your partner, it changes your life. Put it right, start over with what remains, learn from your error. 

I hope you find peace, and clarity.


----------



## StillSearching

As'laDain said:


> at one point, yes. it would have bothered me if she told me that in order to try to hurt me, because of the intention behind it, but not because of the facts being what they are. it also probably would bother me more if i were not able to satisfy my wife in bed, but i am, so i let it go.
> 
> to be fair, i do not emotionally respond to things the same way most people do.


This is not like any human male response I've ever heard. 
But I guess we are getting closer to a robot revolution...so there's that.


----------



## MattMatt

StillSearching said:


> This is not like any human male response I've ever heard.
> But I guess we are getting closer to a robot revolution...so there's that.


In which @StillSearching is shocked and bewildered to learn that not everyone is the same as he is and do not react to things in exactly the same way he does.


----------



## Decorum

Oh never mind.


----------



## st232

I told my husband and he lost it and is threatening to go for full custody because I'm a **** and he doesn't even like parenting so he's doing that to get back at me not for the kids. I know he wouldn't get it because I haven't done anything to my kids but he will try just to hurt me and prove a point. He pushed me out of the house last night and told me not to go back then changed the locks this morning and I know he can't do that but he did and I don't want to be around him right now but he didn't even let me pick my kids up after school an I just want my kids. He's texting me a lot of horrible messages and has called me every name in the book and I know its my fault and I deserve it but I hate it and can't handle it but I shouldn't have done it if I can't handle it. I don't know what I'm supposed to do here it's my fault and I don't want a divorce and I don't know what to do. I stayed with him and we were okay but he doesn't want to stay with me because I broke the vows not him and he doesn't have to but I want him to. I would take it back if I could it wasn't worth it and I would take it back. I'm going to end up divorced, losing my kids, with every std and knocked up by a high school drop out with a criminal record. I shouldn't have done it and I want to take it back and I can't and my life is ruined because I wanted some sex. I want it to go away. I feel gross and dirty and soaking in bleach wouldn't be enough. My husband will never forgive me and I'm losing everything because I'm a ****. I hurt my husband knowing exactly how it feels and I did it anyway. I'm a horrible person. My husband deserves better he didnt cheat after we married. I want to go home and beg my husband to let me do anything to fix it and he won't let me and I don't know what to do.


----------



## turnera

Call the police *right now.*

You are NOT going to lose your children.

And you are dreaming if you think he hasn't been cheating on you.


----------



## GoldenR

You're pregnant?!?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Yes call the police. He cannot legally change the locks OR keep your kids from you. I know you are feeling sick with guilt but please stop with the thoughts that put him on a pedestal. He can threaten and bluster about getting custody of the kids but the legal system doesn’t work that way. So deep breaths. You knew it would be pretty awful. 

Do not go begging and pleading to him. Compose yourself. Give him a little space. After you call the police and get access to your home again. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dreamer2017

There has been wrong done on both parts. Get off her husband case and placing all the blame on him!!!!! She can gain legal counsel and get access to everything she is entitled to get. We don't know if he has cheated, and what she has stated there is a possibility she has an STD and pregnant. Have some empathy for her husband and GET OFF HIS CASE!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Go down and file an emergency court custody hearing so you can get your kids back, may have to file for divorce too if he doesn’t want to work it out.

I told you not to tell him yet.


----------



## dreamer2017

Also, He deserved to know!!!!


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Yes he deserves to know, have you read the entire thread?

I told her to wait to figure out what he is up to first, not indefinitely.

Op

Are you pregnant?

STD?

What is going on.


----------



## dreamer2017

Yes, I've read the entire thread, have you?


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Of course I have.


----------



## Mr.Married

OR ..... you can do the following: Give him a couple days to finish losing his mind and let things cool down a bit.

If you do the police thing it will only enrage him more. You may need to play his game for a while until he settles his mind some. Don't escalate if you do not have to.

De-escalation is your best bet in my mind. You will just have to take a few punches in the mean time ......


----------



## arobk

Get an appointment with a family law lawyer as soon as you can. Explain what has happened. They should be able to tell you how to proceed. If the lawyer tells you to file a report for him shoving you out of the house DO IT. Find a therapist for yourself now. Be prepared to get one for your kids soon. Listen to your lawyer.


----------



## Keepin-my-head-up

I know you want to work things out and may not take any actions because of that reason.

But what if he is taking action?
Then you will be left waaay behind as he preps to take the kids, house, etc...


----------



## BioFury

st232 said:


> I told my husband and he lost it and is threatening to go for full custody because I'm a **** and he doesn't even like parenting so he's doing that to get back at me not for the kids. I know he wouldn't get it because I haven't done anything to my kids but he will try just to hurt me and prove a point. He pushed me out of the house last night and told me not to go back then changed the locks this morning and I know he can't do that but he did and I don't want to be around him right now but he didn't even let me pick my kids up after school an I just want my kids. He's texting me a lot of horrible messages and has called me every name in the book and I know its my fault and I deserve it but I hate it and can't handle it but I shouldn't have done it if I can't handle it. I don't know what I'm supposed to do here it's my fault and I don't want a divorce and I don't know what to do. I stayed with him and we were okay but he doesn't want to stay with me because I broke the vows not him and he doesn't have to but I want him to. I would take it back if I could it wasn't worth it and I would take it back. I'm going to end up divorced, losing my kids, with every std and knocked up by a high school drop out with a criminal record. I shouldn't have done it and I want to take it back and I can't and my life is ruined because I wanted some sex. I want it to go away. I feel gross and dirty and soaking in bleach wouldn't be enough. My husband will never forgive me and I'm losing everything because I'm a ****. I hurt my husband knowing exactly how it feels and I did it anyway. I'm a horrible person. My husband deserves better he didnt cheat after we married. I want to go home and beg my husband to let me do anything to fix it and he won't let me and I don't know what to do.


Cheating is still cheating, whether it's before the vows or after. Your husband has absolutely zero moral high ground to stand on.

I would contact the police, and let them know what's going on. He doesn't have the legal authority to lock you out of your own house, and keep you from your kids.


----------



## Decorum

Mr.Married said:


> OR ..... you can do the following: Give him a couple days to finish losing his mind and let things cool down a bit.
> 
> If you do the police thing it will only enrage him more. You may need to play his game for a while until he settles his mind some. Don't escalate if you do not have to.
> 
> De-escalation is your best bet in my mind. You will just have to take a few punches in the mean time ......





arobk said:


> Get an appointment with a family law lawyer as soon as you can. Explain what has happened. They should be able to tell you how to proceed. If the lawyer tells you to file a report for him shoving you out of the house DO IT. Find a therapist for yourself now. Be prepared to get one for your kids soon. Listen to your lawyer.


Just slow down, and let the **** show play out. Did you think he was going to buy you a dozen roses?

You cheated, and now you are taking responsibility. Do you think you are the only wife to ever confess to cheating, his world just got destroyed. 

Stay away from alcohol, get some support, give him a few day, and talk to a lawyer.

For goodness sake pull yourself together, and act like and adult.

No one knows how this will play out yet.


----------



## In Absentia

I knew this would happen...


----------



## Mr.Married

In Absentia said:


> I knew this would happen...


I wouldn't predict the future just yet. This is only the start. He needs to finish flipping out first. Everyone loses there mind for a bit when they find out.

She did however reveal some things about him that we can pretty much agree cast him in a bad light, not that the ONS is justified.

Time will tell .... just have to wait it out.

Hopefully she keeps coming back.


----------



## Welsh15

st232 said:


> I told my husband and he lost it and is threatening to go for full custody because I'm a **** and he doesn't even like parenting so he's doing that to get back at me not for the kids. I know he wouldn't get it because I haven't done anything to my kids but he will try just to hurt me and prove a point. He pushed me out of the house last night and told me not to go back then changed the locks this morning and I know he can't do that but he did and I don't want to be around him right now but he didn't even let me pick my kids up after school an I just want my kids. He's texting me a lot of horrible messages and has called me every name in the book and I know its my fault and I deserve it but I hate it and can't handle it but I shouldn't have done it if I can't handle it. I don't know what I'm supposed to do here it's my fault and I don't want a divorce and I don't know what to do. I stayed with him and we were okay but he doesn't want to stay with me because I broke the vows not him and he doesn't have to but I want him to. I would take it back if I could it wasn't worth it and I would take it back. I'm going to end up divorced, losing my kids, with every std and knocked up by a high school drop out with a criminal record. I shouldn't have done it and I want to take it back and I can't and my life is ruined because I wanted some sex. I want it to go away. I feel gross and dirty and soaking in bleach wouldn't be enough. My husband will never forgive me and I'm losing everything because I'm a ****. I hurt my husband knowing exactly how it feels and I did it anyway. I'm a horrible person. My husband deserves better he didnt cheat after we married. I want to go home and beg my husband to let me do anything to fix it and he won't let me and I don't know what to do.


From what you said about him earlier in this thread, his reaction is not surprising. I knew he would try to grab the "moral" high ground now that he has this leverage over you. Don't fall for it. Contact an attorney for legal advice and call the police about the lock-out. I still am not sure why you should want to save this marriage, other than guilt of letting your own standards about yourself down. He obviously has no standards about cheating prior to your marriage. He doesn't seem like a long-term solution for you and you intuitively know that he will throw this ONS back in your face continually, no matter how much remorse you show. Obviously personal therapy would be good for you to examine this dynamic in the marriage as well. Good luck, and work on and take care of yourself. Be a good Mom and work on yourself. He isn't worth it IMHO.


----------



## personofinterest

I would give him a week to have his highly hypocritical pity party, and then I would have a consultation with every bulldog attorney in your general area. I would not say that had he not made such a big show of trying to get full custody. Hes an a**. The only thing an a** understands is strength. Don't let him touch those kids, and if he doesn't calm down, bury him.


----------



## personofinterest

For all the potential whining, let me clarify that I did not mean keep the kids from him. He is their father. I mean do not let him take any action such as taking them away somewhere. Just wanted to clarify that before all the clinics and diapers came out lol


----------



## Robert22205

My advice is not based on taking sides but rather on my concern for your kids (and law and order).

What state are you in? Some on here may have direct experience with your state.

As you know from your previous experience with infidelity this is just the beginning of a long painful road for both of you. Your husband will likely flip flop up and down emotionally for a long long time. 

See an attorney asap. There may be free legal service in your state/county. The first hour is often free.

Go see a doctor (or a 24hour clinic) and tell them just what you told us.
They can help you sleep and deal with the fear/anxiety.

Your husband's reaction is not unexpected. However, his behavior needs to conform to the law. Although adultery is unfair to him - he doesn't get to punish you or take the law into his own hands. Generally his option is to distance himself from you (moving out, D etc) - especially if he may become violent. 

He can't legally kick you out of your house ... nor take your kids. 
With respect to child custody, adultery 'may' be considered in a few states - but the child custody arrangement tends to favor the mom - and rarely turns on that issue alone.

Your husband needs to understand that he can't take the law into his own hands. You could request a police escort back home (or just park outside your house and call the police). The cop will have your husband leave (or warn your husband) depending on the cop's assessment of your husband's state of mind. 

The cop will categorize this as a domestic dispute (very emotionally charged) and they often assign 2 cops. It's not the cop's job to judge you and they are trained to recognize there's two sides to every domestic dispute (e.g., H has a history of cheating). After talking to your husband, if the cops decide H is too angry (and a threat to you) then your H will be forced to leave the house.

The history you two have is complicated (your ONS, his history of cheating, and his verbal abuse). I wish you both well.


----------



## turnera

I don't care about the marriage. I care about the kids seeing their mom kicked out and them not being able to be with her. This must be resolved sooner rather than later.


----------



## Lostinthought61

st232, while i can't predict the future, i would give him the space he needs, he is obviously upset and rightly so, but he is also acting out of anger and fear than another else, and when he realizes the amount of work in taking care of the kids he will realize that he also needs your help, in the mean time i would set up some individual couseling for yourself. There are no good guys nor bad guys mistakes were made on either side and hopefully cool heads will prevail. Also don't be surprised if he DNA's the kids...let him. As for the locks your name is on the mortgage and any lawyer would tell him that he can't do that...so that will pass as well. Please don't jump to conclusions. Its a very long road but it will either make you marriage better in the long run or it show you there was no marriage there in the first place, and you are best moving on.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

personofinterest said:


> I would give him a week to have his highly *hypocritical pity party*.


Indeed.


----------



## In Absentia

Mr.Married said:


> I wouldn't predict the future just yet. This is only the start. He needs to finish flipping out first. Everyone loses there mind for a bit when they find out.
> 
> She did however reveal some things about him that we can pretty much agree cast him in a bad light, not that the ONS is justified.
> 
> Time will tell .... just have to wait it out.
> 
> Hopefully she keeps coming back.


To me, the best course of action would have been: tell her husband she wants a divorce because she doesn't love him anymore. Which is true, since her affair was not casual. You don't do that if you love your husband. There is too much resentment and baggage in the marriage. Now she is in the dog house, whilst he keeps riding on his high horse...


----------



## notmyjamie

I'm sorry things are so hard now @st232. It is very true that your husband can't legally just lock you out of the house or take your children from you. I have never lived through this, but just from reading many different stories here, it seems like men, especially, go a bit insane after they learn of their wife's infidelity and then calm down after a few days. At this point, I think you do need to consult with a lawyer so you are ready for any eventuality but also give your husband a few days to calm down. Having said that, I would get the kids from school and text him that is what you are doing so you can spend some time with them and find out what he's told them. If he really doesn't like spending time with them, let him have them for a while...he'll get tired of how much work it really is and eventually want you to take them. And he won't get full custody unless he can prove you're unfit mother, which you aren't. But being totally responsible for them might make him realize going for full custody isn't what he really wants anyway.

Sending you good thoughts.


----------



## personofinterest

notmyjamie said:


> I'm sorry things are so hard now @st232. It is very true that your husband can't legally just lock you out of the house or take your children from you. I have never lived through this, but just from reading many different stories here, it seems like men, especially, go a bit insane after they learn of their wife's infidelity and then calm down after a few days. At this point, I think you do need to consult with a lawyer so you are ready for any eventuality but also give your husband a few days to calm down. Having said that, I would get the kids from school and text him that is what you are doing so you can spend some time with them and find out what he's told them. *If he really doesn't like spending time with them, let him have them for a while...he'll get tired of how much work it really is and eventually want you to take them*. And he won't get full custody unless he can prove you're unfit mother, which you aren't. But being totally responsible for them might make him realize going for full custody isn't what he really wants anyway.
> 
> Sending you good thoughts.


Do NOT do this.

Leaving the house could already be construed as abandonment. Get back into YOUR house and keep those kids close.

I don't care how men typically react. He is so far out of line he can't even SEE the line.

The gloves need to come off.


----------



## In Absentia

personofinterest said:


> Do NOT do this.
> 
> Leaving the house could already be construed as abandonment. Get back into YOUR house and keep those kids close.


He's changed the locks, hasn't he?


----------



## notmyjamie

personofinterest said:


> Do NOT do this.
> 
> Leaving the house could already be construed as abandonment. Get back into YOUR house and keep those kids close.
> 
> I don't care how men typically react. He is so far out of line he can't even SEE the line.
> 
> The gloves need to come off.


I didn't mean spend no time with them. And I only meant for a few days until he calms down a bit. But at the moment, she's locked out. It can't be abandonment if he's physically barred her from the home. 

All of this is another reason to consult a lawyer NOW who will know the best plan of action for OP's situation in her state.


----------



## personofinterest

notmyjamie said:


> I didn't mean spend no time with them. And I only meant for a few days until he calms down a bit. But at the moment, she's locked out. It can't be abandonment if he's physically barred her from the home.
> 
> All of this is another reason to consult a lawyer NOW who will know the best plan of action for OP's situation in her state.


True

And honestly, I would call the police and tell them she has been prevented from accessing her home and children.


----------



## StillSearching

"my life is ruined because I wanted some sex".................That's not why.
It's because you didn't have the fortitude to walk away from the OM. 
It's not sex, it's virtue. 
It will help you a lot right now to find it, it will the most important thing, if you want any chance of reconciliation.


----------



## SadSamIAm

It is clear from your actions (cheating) and your comments that your kids are your priority. You thought that you should stay married for your kids. You found out (the hard way) that no matter how hard you might try, you can't live in a marriage without love. 

Your kids are your priority, 

SO

Talk to a lawyer about your husband changing the locks and refusing your access to your children. The lawyer will help you to get access to your children. Also have the lawyer start divorce proceedings.

Open you eyes as to who your husband really is. A real man doesn't cheat on his partner when she is pregnant. A real man doesn't refuse sex with his wife because 'it is too much work'. There is no way that a man with this character could be a good father to your children. Your decision to marry and stay married was a mistake. 

Forget about what happened at the reunion. This only sped up what was inevitably going to happen (marriage ending). Your marriage to this man was not sustainable. You need to realize this so that you can move on.


----------



## personofinterest

SadSamIAm said:


> It is clear from your actions (cheating) and your comments that your kids are your priority. You thought that you should stay married for your kids. You found out (the hard way) that no matter how hard you might try, you can't live in a marriage without love.
> 
> Your kids are your priority,
> 
> SO
> 
> Talk to a lawyer about your husband changing the locks and refusing your access to your children. The lawyer will help you to get access to your children. Also have the lawyer start divorce proceedings.
> 
> Open you eyes as to who your husband really is. A real man doesn't cheat on his partner when she is pregnant. A real man doesn't refuse sex with his wife because 'it is too much work'. There is no way that a man with this character could be a good father to your children. Your decision to marry and stay married was a mistake.
> 
> Forget about what happened at the reunion. This only sped up what was inevitably going to happen (marriage ending). Your marriage to this man was not sustainable. You need to realize this so that you can move on.


I would be willing to bet some other forum TOLD her husband to do those things. Of course, I am sure none of the people who advised that know about his serial cheating past.


----------



## Yeswecan

H needs to cool off. You can not be thrown from your home and locks changed. There needs to be police involvement. It may also involve your H being required to leave the home as dictated/ordered by the police. You to stay in the home with the children.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

SadSamIAm said:


> Open you eyes as to who your husband really is. A real man doesn't cheat on his partner when she is pregnant. A real man doesn't refuse sex with his wife because 'it is too much work'. There is no way that a man with this character could be a good father to your children. Your decision to marry and stay married was a mistake.
> 
> Forget about what happened at the reunion. This only sped up what was inevitably going to happen (marriage ending). Your marriage to this man was not sustainable. You need to realize this so that you can move on.


I am in agreement with Sam here. Please compose yourself and start taking some action.


----------



## st232

I called the police and they came and made my husband give me access to the house. My husband lied to the police and said he did give me a key and I'm doing this to make a scene and fed them a whole story about the lock needed replacing and me trying to get HIM out of the house and ME accusing him for years of cheating when he was nothing but faithful and that I'm bipolar. He lied and had a whole story made up effortlessly and lied straight to my face and two cops faces and the neighbors were outside watching. As soon as the cops left he started screaming at me and pushing me until he left for work. He told everyone that we know that I cheated but he twisted the details. He said I've been cheating our whole relationship, my kids aren't his, I have a drug problem, I'm bipolar, I had multiple online affairs then ran back to my hometown to have sex with two guys, got pregnant and cried rape when I was just a **** who drank too much, and he was home with two sicks kids after begging me not to go. None of that is true. I don't want him to come home from work but I do want him to so I don't know what I want. He wants a divorce and I don't want that. He stopped cheating on me then I went and ruined everything.


----------



## dreamer2017

I can't condone cheating regardless of who is doing it. Your husband can't forget the reunion and you shouldn't forget what he has done. Like said in my previous post; speak with your attorney and understand your rights. Your husband has no right to put his hands on you and force you out of the joint home. Your husband has no right to deprive you of your children. He has the right to divorce you as you with him. There are posters here who have a problem with men and no regards to infidelity which is wrong. 

If this can't be fixed, focus on moving forward separately for the benefit of your children!!!!

Best,
Dreamer


----------



## personofinterest

dreamer2017 said:


> I can't condone cheating regardless of who is doing it. Your husband can't forget the reunion and you shouldn't forget what he has done. Like said in my previous post; speak with your attorney and understand your rights. Your husband has no right to put his hands on you and force you out of the joint home. Your husband has no right to deprive you of your children. He has the right to divorce you as you with him. * There are posters here who have a problem with men and no regards to infidelity which is wrong. *
> 
> If this can't be fixed, focus on moving forward separately for the benefit of your children!!!!
> 
> Best,
> Dreamer


LOL No one who has posted to the OP feels that way.


----------



## SadSamIAm

st232 said:


> I called the police and they came and made my husband give me access to the house. My husband lied to the police and said he did give me a key and I'm doing this to make a scene and fed them a whole story about the lock needed replacing and me trying to get HIM out of the house and ME accusing him for years of cheating when he was nothing but faithful and that I'm bipolar. He lied and had a whole story made up effortlessly and lied straight to my face and two cops faces and the neighbors were outside watching. As soon as the cops left he started screaming at me and pushing me until he left for work. He told everyone that we know that I cheated but he twisted the details. He said I've been cheating our whole relationship, my kids aren't his, I have a drug problem, I'm bipolar, I had multiple online affairs then ran back to my hometown to have sex with two guys, got pregnant and cried rape when I was just a **** who drank too much, and he was home with two sicks kids after begging me not to go. None of that is true. I don't want him to come home from work but I do want him to so I don't know what I want. He wants a divorce and I don't want that. He stopped cheating on me then I went and ruined everything.


I really don't understand why you say you don't want a divorce. 

What is it about your husband that you find so attractive? 

Your above description of him, just adds to the evidence that he is not a great guy. Not even a good guy. 

You and your children will be much better off without him!!!!!


----------



## personofinterest

st232 said:


> I called the police and they came and made my husband give me access to the house. My husband lied to the police and said he did give me a key and I'm doing this to make a scene and fed them a whole story about the lock needed replacing and me trying to get HIM out of the house and ME accusing him for years of cheating when he was nothing but faithful and that I'm bipolar. He lied and had a whole story made up effortlessly and lied straight to my face and two cops faces and the neighbors were outside watching. As soon as the cops left he started screaming at me and pushing me until he left for work. He told everyone that we know that I cheated but he twisted the details. He said I've been cheating our whole relationship, my kids aren't his, I have a drug problem, I'm bipolar, I had multiple online affairs then ran back to my hometown to have sex with two guys, got pregnant and cried rape when I was just a **** who drank too much, and he was home with two sicks kids after begging me not to go. None of that is true. I don't want him to come home from work but I do want him to so I don't know what I want. He wants a divorce and I don't want that. He stopped cheating on me then I went and ruined everything.


This is not just on you.

Your husband DID start this ball rolling all those years ago. Oh yes he certainly did.

You made a very wrong choice on one trip, were devastated, and confessed. HE is now lying, bullying, and verbally and physically abusing you.

He is so far out of line I cannot even begin to fathom anyone having much sympathy for him who knows the whole story.

I'd document every last thing he says and does. This is both slander and libel.

I would also DNA both kids to refute his ridiculous claims.

Your husband is not a man. He is a petulant child-monster with no excuse for what he has done. Period.


----------



## dreamer2017

personofinterest, What man did you wrong?


----------



## st232

I don't want to divorce him because we're a family and we have kids together and he's who I picked to marry. He stopped cheating on me and we were okay.


----------



## personofinterest

dreamer2017 said:


> personofinterest, What man did you wrong?


Actually, I've been lucky.

I was 8n a sexless marriage, but he never cheated. My current husband is wonderful.

I was cheated on by a boyfriend, but we broke up. And I've been blessed to have really admirable Male family members and friends on my life. 

Actually, with the exception of one person, the only asshat men I've ever encountered online have been on forums, and there are less than 10 I could name of them.

Why, do I have to be damaged to disagree with you?


----------



## personofinterest

st232 said:


> I don't want to divorce him because we're a family and we have kids together and he's who I picked to marry. He stopped cheating on me and we were okay.


No man who is an okay repentant former cheater acts like this.

Him being hurt and angry makes sense. Him wanting a divorce is understandable.

The lies, threats, lies to police, fabricating mental illness.....none of that can be justified. Period.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

personofinterest said:


> dreamer2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> personofinterest, What man did you wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I've been lucky.
> 
> I was 8n a sexless marriage, but he never cheated. My current husband is wonderful.
> 
> I was cheated on by a boyfriend, but we broke up. And I've been blessed to have really admirable Male family members and friends on my life.
> 
> Actually, with the exception of one person, the only asshat men I've ever encountered online have been on forums, and there are less than 10 I could name of them.
> 
> Why, do I have to be damaged to disagree with you?
Click to expand...

Did I make your list?


----------



## Yeswecan

st232 said:


> I called the police and they came and made my husband give me access to the house. My husband lied to the police and said he did give me a key and I'm doing this to make a scene and fed them a whole story about the lock needed replacing and me trying to get HIM out of the house and ME accusing him for years of cheating when he was nothing but faithful and that I'm bipolar. He lied and had a whole story made up effortlessly and lied straight to my face and two cops faces and the neighbors were outside watching. As soon as the cops left he started screaming at me and pushing me until he left for work. He told everyone that we know that I cheated but he twisted the details. He said I've been cheating our whole relationship, my kids aren't his, I have a drug problem, I'm bipolar, I had multiple online affairs then ran back to my hometown to have sex with two guys, got pregnant and cried rape when I was just a **** who drank too much, and he was home with two sicks kids after begging me not to go. None of that is true. I don't want him to come home from work but I do want him to so I don't know what I want. He wants a divorce and I don't want that. He stopped cheating on me then I went and ruined everything.


I understand your H upset but I do not understand the lie after lie about you. You may want to reassess your marriage and worth saving after that diatribe by your H.


----------



## personofinterest

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dreamer2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> personofinterest, What man did you wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I've been lucky.
> 
> I was 8n a sexless marriage, but he never cheated. My current husband is wonderful.
> 
> I was cheated on by a boyfriend, but we broke up. And I've been blessed to have really admirable Male family members and friends on my life.
> 
> Actually, with the exception of one person, the only asshat men I've ever encountered online have been on forums, and there are less than 10 I could name of them.
> 
> Why, do I have to be damaged to disagree with you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did I make your list?
Click to expand...

 Nah, you're a light weight. You actually enjoy the company of some women, and I bet you would never desert a child. You're too nice to be an idiot.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Oh girl give him that divorce! What in hell do you think you actually have with this man?


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

personofinterest said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dreamer2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> personofinterest, What man did you wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I've been lucky.
> 
> I was 8n a sexless marriage, but he never cheated. My current husband is wonderful.
> 
> I was cheated on by a boyfriend, but we broke up. And I've been blessed to have really admirable Male family members and friends on my life.
> 
> Actually, with the exception of one person, the only asshat men I've ever encountered online have been on forums, and there are less than 10 I could name of them.
> 
> Why, do I have to be damaged to disagree with you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did I make your list?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nah, you're a light weight. You actually enjoy the company of some women, and I bet you would never desert a child. You're too nice to be an idiot.
Click to expand...

Awww, thats the nicest thing anyone has said to me! You aight too.


----------



## rugswept

st232 - he's still in furious mode. eventually he may start talking again. who knows, maybe he'll reconsider things and decide to keep the family together. 

he's obviously going to be very difficult and abusive if he's not out of the M right away. expect that. 
try not to throw his past into his face (as bad as his past was). that won't help. 

accept what you did and admit to him that you were completely wrong with what happened. 
by now you know him, his rages, etc. you're the one that has to assess if he's really out or not. 
not giving up is probably the only choice you've got.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Admitting your wrongdoing and apologizing and offering amends is one thing... DO NOT grovel, beg and plead. I have a feeling that is where you are heading here, and you are in for a world of hurt if you do so. He will abuse the hell out of you til he dies if you take that approach. 

I still feel a permanent break is the best choice all around, but if you insist on trying to make it work then the above approach is where you need to come from. And be prepared that it wont matter and he still wants to end it. If he does, please accept his choice with some dignity.


----------



## karole

Honey, you need to get into some individual counseling and work on your self esteem. Please realize you and your kids deserve much better than your POS husband.


----------



## SadSamIAm

st232 said:


> I don't want to divorce him because we're a family and we have kids together and he's who I picked to marry. He stopped cheating on me and we were okay.


He stopped cheating on you, but also stopped making love to you! 

Anyone that reads your description of him (cheating before marriage, mental abuse during marriage, reaction he had of your confession, etc. etc. etc.) will have the same opinion. That you are better off on your own. 

You made a mistake when you married him. It doesn't matter that you picked him. You don't need to live with your mistake the rest of your life.

The only way to have a happy life moving forward is to divorce. Staying for the kids is a mistake. You are teaching them that staying in a loveless relationship is OK. You need to be a better role model for them.

He wasn't good to you before the reunion. It will only be worse now that he knows what you did.


----------



## TJW

st232 said:


> I don't want to divorce him because we're a family and we have kids together and he's who I picked to marry. He stopped cheating on me and we were okay.


You have a rational, well-thought-out view of your marriage. You are taking full responsibility for your own actions which did not have anything to do with your husband.

You have extended forgiveness to your husband, and worked toward creating a marriage and family with him. Please don't let his knee-jerk reactions ruin everything and start an adversarial relationship between you. Being cheated on hurts. It brings up lots of emotions, which, when it happened to me, I wasn't thinking clearly, and did not always act in the very best ways, until couple months went by, and I regained my composure.

Allow him some time to calm down. I think it's a good idea that you called the police and didn't let this escalate any more. Go see a lawyer for information and advice. You don't have to take any actions, just understand the law and where you and your family stands.

Please don't let folks who have their own ax to grind tell you what choices you "should be" making. Look into your own heart and your own mind and formulate your plans in the best way for you.


----------



## dreamer2017

Dear ST232,

Can you please clear up something for me.

Did you get pregnant by your affair partner?


----------



## st232

dreamer2017 said:


> Dear ST232,
> 
> Can you please clear up something for me.
> 
> Did you get pregnant by your affair partner?



I don't know. It's too early to know .


----------



## turnera

karole said:


> Honey, you need to get into some individual counseling and work on your self esteem. Please realize you and your kids deserve much better than your POS husband.


Are you aware that by staying with an abusive man, you are guaranteeing that your kids will either grow up to abuse other people or grow up to be an abuse victim like you? Just because you won't leave this piece of crap?

You are harming your children by staying. Think about it.


----------



## personofinterest

st232 said:


> dreamer2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear ST232,
> 
> Can you please clear up something for me.
> 
> Did you get pregnant by your affair partner?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know. It's too early to know .
Click to expand...

 Actually, based on the time line, you could take a pregnancy test right now and have that answer. I highly doubt you are pregnant.


----------



## personofinterest

Regarding axes to grind, one of the things we focus on and an affair situation is personal responsibility. We also discuss blame shifting the period in other words, the state of the marriage or the badd things that the other spouse did never justifies cheating. So if we truly believe in personal responsibility, then no 1 should be giving this husband a pass because hes upset and hurt. If we are all responsible for our actions, then he is completely responsible for kicking out the mother of his children, spreading vicious lies, and a lying to law enforcement officials. Let's not allow our blatant hypocrisy to show by implying that she is responsible for her behavior and he is not responsible for his


----------



## st232

personofinterest said:


> Actually, based on the time line, you could take a pregnancy test right now and have that answer. I highly doubt you are pregnant.


I don't get my period until next Sunday.


----------



## drifting on

I’m struggling to come up with just one reason that you stay, and I don’t have anything. I’m afraid you’ve met the real person he is, and it’s not even remotely close to being a man. I can’t say he’s even being human. He has proved himself to be selfish, cheat, liar, abusive (in many ways), and not someone who really would be marriage material. I’ll leave your thread as I have nothing to contribute except for, divorce this person.


----------



## st232

turnera said:


> Are you aware that by staying with an abusive man, you are guaranteeing that your kids will either grow up to abuse other people or grow up to be an abuse victim like you? Just because you won't leave this piece of crap?
> 
> You are harming your children by staying. Think about it.


He is only acting like this because of what I did. It's my fault and I deserve it because I cheated on him. He doesn't abuse me. I don't want to lose my kids for half their lives or all of their lives if my husband gets what he wants and it would be my fault because I ruined our family. We put it back together and I ruined it. My husband stopped cheating the last time I was pregnant because he wanted our family together and we did that and he was faithful and I ruined it. I don't want him alone with my kids because he doesn't like parenting but he'll take them from me if he can to get even. I chose this family and my kids shouldn't have a broken up family because of my mistake and inability to deal because of my mistake.


----------



## personofinterest

> He is only acting like this because of what I did.


This is EXACTLY like saying "I only cheated because he wouldn't have sex."

Both are blameshifting. The difference is, YOU did not blameshift.

HE, however, if CHOOSING to exhibit horrific behavior and thinks he should get a pass.

He is lying to your family. He is lying to police. He is breaking the law. He is threatening to take your children.

Do NOT drink the "angry betrayed man" kool aid.

He is off the rails.


----------



## wilson

How would you feel if the situation was reversed? What if your H went back home to his reunion, he slept with an ex, and then told you. How would you react? How would you feel about him and what would you want for the future? If you wanted to work it out, what would you need from him?


----------



## turnera

st232 said:


> He is only acting like this because of what I did. It's my fault and I deserve it because I cheated on him. He doesn't abuse me.


So - before you told him this - he didn't yell at you? He didn't ignore you? He didn't blame you for things?


----------



## personofinterest

wilson said:


> How would you feel if the situation was reversed? What if your H went back home to his reunion, he slept with an ex, and then told you. How would you react? How would you feel about him and what would you want for the future? If you wanted to work it out, what would you need from him?


So if she lied to all their friends and family, changed the locks, threatened him, lied to police.....that would be fair game? All AFTER she spent their dating years repeatedly cheating on him?

Yeah, right


----------



## 3Xnocharm

st232 said:


> He is only acting like this because of what I did. It's my fault and I deserve it because I cheated on him. He doesn't abuse me. I don't want to lose my kids for half their lives or all of their lives if my husband gets what he wants and it would be my fault because I ruined our family. We put it back together and I ruined it. My husband stopped cheating the last time I was pregnant because he wanted our family together and we did that and he was faithful and I ruined it. I don't want him alone with my kids because he doesn't like parenting but he'll take them from me if he can to get even. I chose this family and *my kids shouldn't have a broken up family because of my mistake *and inability to deal because of my mistake.


Your kids will be LIVING in a broken, dysfunctional home if you stay in this. Is that what you want?? If he wants to end it, LET HIM. He cannot "take" your kids, there are laws and legal rights and processes. And has it ever occurred to you that the fact that you dont want him alone with your kids literally SCREAMS what a crap person he is??


----------



## wilson

personofinterest said:


> So if she lied to all their friends and family, changed the locks, threatened him, lied to police.....that would be fair game? All AFTER she spent their dating years repeatedly cheating on him?
> 
> Yeah, right


I think you misunderstood. I'd like to hear from st232 to see how she would feel in the reverse situation about the affair. If he had the affair and told her, how would she have reacted. How the H is reacting right now is irrelevant to the question I asked.


----------



## st232

3Xnocharm said:


> Your kids will be LIVING in a broken, dysfunctional home if you stay in this. Is that what you want?? If he wants to end it, LET HIM. He cannot "take" your kids, there are laws and legal rights and processes. And has it ever occurred to you that the fact that you dont want him alone with your kids literally SCREAMS what a crap person he is??


If we divorce then my kids are alone with a crap person half the time. How is that any better? If we are together I know what is happening and I do all of the parenting.


----------



## personofinterest

wilson said:


> I think you misunderstood. I'd like to hear from st232 to see how she would feel in the reverse situation about the affair. If he had the affair and told her, how would she have reacted. How the H is reacting right now is irrelevant to the question I asked.


Hmmmm......maybe

The past several pages have been discussing his reaction, and then the question is asked "how would you react?"

Yeah....I'm thinking they ARE related.

I do agree that once her husband calms down and stops being abusive, if he decides to try to work on things, she should follow the same things and amends ANY WS should follow: transparency, extraordinary precautions, remorse, empathy, and care.

However, it is hard to do that when your spouse is changing locks, lying to police, and telling the entire town you are a bipolar 'ho with multiple baby daddies.


----------



## st232

turnera said:


> So - before you told him this - he didn't yell at you? He didn't ignore you? He didn't blame you for things?


He did but he wasn't like this.


----------



## st232

wilson said:


> How would you feel if the situation was reversed? What if your H went back home to his reunion, he slept with an ex, and then told you. How would you react? How would you feel about him and what would you want for the future? If you wanted to work it out, what would you need from him?


I would be hurt and feel betrayed. I would grieve the marriage I thought we had because he promised to be faithful. I would be heartbroken. I wouldn't want him to go back again and would want him to promise not to go again. I would stuff it with all the other times and women and try to move on again.


----------



## turnera

st232 said:


> He did but he wasn't like this.


Before this episode, how many times a weak has your husband raised his voice?


----------



## st232

turnera said:


> Before this episode, how many times a weak has your husband raised his voice?


Every day but it's different.


----------



## Decorum

Many guys are devestated when they find out their wife cheated, begging and pleading, etc.

This guy just wants out.

Make you plans with that in mind.

Plan and prepare your next steps.

See a lawyer!


----------



## Tasorundo

st232 said:


> Every day but it's different.


No it isn't, you just feel you deserve it.

He has a right to be angry, not a right to do what he is doing. He should be more understanding given his past, but he isn't. Do you know why?

He is not sorry for his past. He is not sorry he cheated on you, because you deserved it.

He was never sorry, he will never change, and he does not love you.


----------



## StillSearching

Divorce is the best option here on both accounts, I believe.
He's wise to want it and not look back.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Tasorundo said:


> No it isn't, you just feel you deserve it.
> 
> He has a right to be angry, not a right to do what he is doing. He should be more understanding given his past, but he isn't. Do you know why?
> 
> He is not sorry for his past. He is not sorry he cheated on you, because you deserved it.
> 
> He was never sorry, he will never change, and he does not love you.


Spot on. 

So he yells daily, and tells you he doesnt want sex with you and TELLS you its because its too much work and not worth it. Sure, sounds like a keeper to me....


----------



## st232

Tasorundo said:


> No it isn't, you just feel you deserve it.
> 
> He has a right to be angry, not a right to do what he is doing. He should be more understanding given his past, but he isn't. Do you know why?
> 
> He is not sorry for his past. He is not sorry he cheated on you, because you deserved it.
> 
> He was never sorry, he will never change, and he does not love you.


Ouch  He's does love me. He loves me...


----------



## personofinterest

Decorum said:


> Many guys are devestated when they find out their wife cheated, begging and pleading, etc.
> 
> This guy just wants out.
> 
> Make you plans with that in mind.
> 
> Plan and prepare your next steps.
> 
> See a lawyer!


 What are your thoughts on the lies he has told, changing the locks, deceiving the police, at cetera?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

st232 said:


> Every day but it's different.


Is this your idea of normal? A husband angry enough to raising his voice on a daily basis? 

You are in big time denial. You are so focused on how you ruined everything, that you cant see the reality of your own situation. What you have "ruined" is not a happy home with a loving husband, but one balancing precariously on the edge, with everyone walking on eggshells. Something was going to come along eventually, and it would not shock me in the least if he really has been cheating.


----------



## Decorum

Sorry double post, internet is going in and out.


----------



## wilson

3Xnocharm said:


> Is this your idea of normal? A husband angry enough to raising his voice on a daily basis?
> 
> You are in big time denial. You are so focused on how you ruined everything, that you cant see the reality of your own situation. What you have "ruined" is not a happy home with a loving husband, but one balancing precariously on the edge, with everyone walking on eggshells. Something was going to come along eventually, and it would not shock me in the least if he really has been cheating.


Even before the reunion ONS, the marriage had a lot of toxic elements in it. A marriage like that is going to be very rocky and have to deal with all this kind of stuff. Marriages like that will lend themselves to related problems like ONS, affairs, alcohol problems, yelling, violence, etc. Certainly all marriages can have those problems, but the more toxic the marriage, the more those issues will come up.

Let's forget about the ONS for a moment. Say I went back in my time machine and changed history so that your H went with you to the reunion and you didn't sleep with your ex. Now you're back home and everything was like it was before this all started. How could your marriage be fixed? How could things change so he didn't yell so much? How could intimacy be improved so that you both enjoyed sex a couple of times a week? How could your relationship be changed so that you went on walks and held hands? Those are the kinds of changes you'll need to make in your relationship so it's no longer toxic. If you go back to the way it was, it's just a matter of time before something else toxic springs up.


----------



## wmn1

Dreamer,

you have been correct this entire thread IMO and I agree with your assertion that there are some posters here do have a problem with men and little regard for infidelity and I hope OP can see through that slant and protect the kids, give him some slack, protect herself totally and forces her husband to stop acting the fool. I was kind of hoping that, after what OP explained his past was, that he would show enough compassion to work on things.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Here are my three (long) pieces of observations/advice that I gave you and to a large extent, they still stand:



manfromlamancha said:


> Your husband is going to wonder about the details and may or may not ask for them. If he doesn't it will only be because he cannot stand the pain.
> 
> The fact that you did something with the POSOM that you did not do with him is going to kill him (whether he asked for it or not). This is why I asked about it. Be prepared for that and I fear it is something he may never recover from. However, if he asks do not lie to him because he will never completely believe you anyway. By not lying, he may start to appreciate that at the very least you are being honest with him.
> 
> This was not a mistake. This was a deliberate action on your part. Do not try to frame it as a mistake when telling him because it will only make things worse. A mistake is putting salt instead of sugar in your tea. Having sex with someone all night is a deliberate action. Not using protection is another stupid but deliberate action. I can only think that maybe you thought you would not be caught. However, in the cold light of day you realise that this could come out.
> 
> He may ask about whether the POSOM was bigger, whether the sex with him was better, did you enjoy it, did you orgasm, why you didn't use protection etc etc. Be prepared for this because there is no easy way out of this. Being respectful but honest is probably the best thing to do.
> 
> *Somebody else said that it was abundantly clear that you are in love with your husband. I am afraid that it is far from abundantly clear.* Someone who is in love with their husband doesn't take the first opportunity to have wild sex with someone else as soon as it is presented. You need to explore this for yourself.
> 
> You need to realise that your POSOM AP doesn't really care about you. It seems like he is now trying to keep you as a booty call whenever possible. He made sure to do things with and to you that you might not have normally done. However, do not forget or attempt to minimise the fact that you are both equally to blame with only one of you also breaking vows and betraying not just a husband but an entire family. This is what your husband is going to wonder about - why do this with a POSOM AP that doesn't care about you and put your family at risk. You need to also think about the answer to this. An honest answer might be that you let lust take over, enjoyed the excitement and was too selfish at the time to think of anything or anybody else. Saying "I don't know why I did it" will make matters worse and possibly infuriate your husband.
> 
> Also, you do not appear to be really remorseful. The "Kleenex" remark was not only uncalled for (you were just asked how you managed to refrain from sex with your husband on returning home) but also sounded like justification. So was the blaming it on alcohol. So was the "well I asked my husband to come along but he did not want to" (implying that he had the opportunity to avoid this but did not). All of this doesn't sound remorseful but more like regret at maybe being caught and also justifying why you did it. True remorse will now be seen in your actions not your words.
> 
> When you do tell your husband, remember that it is all about him - trying to hurt him as little as possible without lying, trying to help him with his pain etc It is not about easing your guilt or shame.
> 
> *There is a strong possibility that your husband will not recover from this. Even if he agrees to stay in the marriage for now, the resentment and hurt might last a lot longer if not forever. You need to be ready for that too.*
> 
> Good luck!





manfromlamancha said:


> Whether she said it in her opening post or in subsequent posts (when "pressed" which she knew she would be), she did say the things mentioned all of which sounds like justification accompanied by the "I take full responsibility" and "I am not trying to justify this" statements.
> 
> The marriage may indeed have been in trouble but that is not what is being discussed here and was certainly no reason to do what she did. What is being discussed here is how to help her come clean to her husband whom she claims to love in the least damaging (to him) way and this includes not saying it was a mistake, not minimising it, not trickle truthing, and not saying she didn't know why she did it or even if itwas a one night stand or not.
> 
> There is the ususal commentary about how we are all just projecting our wayward wives behaiour on to this poor unfortunate woman and how we don't understand women in bad marriages etc etc, but that should be taken with less than a pinch of salt. That is part of the converse of men projecting i.e. women justifying their sisters bad actions because of their misery and how they should be given credit for wanting to fix stuff.
> 
> *What OP needs now is a cold hard look at her actions and what the ramifications are going to be and how best to handle them if she indeed does want to save this marriage and for the right reasons.*
> 
> At the moment she keeps slipping some justification into what ever she says, steeped under tons of apology, seeming remorse and regret, as well as professions of love for the husband.





manfromlamancha said:


> OP let me clarify what has been said so that its clear to everyone giving you advice but also clear to you:
> 
> Your hubby was not the greatest of boyfriends prior to getting married. Yet you decided to forgive him for God knows what reason. He gave you a hall pass to even the playing field which you (wisely) did not take. You went ahead and married him.
> 
> He has been faithful ever since. Your sex life is not great and you definitely have marital issues.
> 
> *So why did you not divorce him and leave ? Your answer is that you love him though for the life of me, I cannot understand why. * Maybe its because of what EleGirl says - you are trying to prove to him that you are still desirable. Moreover, he has stayed with you and I do not know why. Especially since you say he does not find you attractive. Was this always the case ? Why did the two of you get married ?
> 
> In your last post, even you admit that your (somewhat angry) response to what I said was a wave of blame and justification only to be told later that his cheating was before you got married and he has apologised and even given you the opportunity to even the score. Even if he had done this after the marriage, it would not have been justification for you to cheat too and by your own admission, two wrongs do not make a right.
> 
> For some of the others commenting on this thread, this does not shut anybody up. And the idea is not to shut anybody up but to give the OP the best possible advice. The "sister" brigade really needs to chill while helping the OP.
> 
> OP, here is my tuppence worth of observations and advice:
> 
> You sound like an honest and genuine person so lets not beat yourself up over anything like that. You are not the first person to do this and you will not be the last (sounds like I am trying to justify this but I am not). What it does mean is that there is stuff you can do about this but you really need to know why.
> 
> You made a decision to sleep with your ex long before the alcohol even hit. And it was a concious decision maybe based on longing, lack of sex, lack of self worth or a combination of all of those. But it was a bad decision.
> 
> In my opinion, the advice coming from AffairCare and EleGirl is the most sound.
> 
> I will repeat what I said:
> 
> Do not try and justify this when telling him.
> 
> Be honest but respectful and empathetic to his feelings at this stage.
> 
> Do tell him - you will be consumed by guilt if you do not and it is the right thing to do.
> 
> Give him the level of detail he asks for no matter how hard it will be to tell him.
> 
> *And most of all, examine why you say you love and still want to be with him and then go and cheat on the other hand. You really need to get to the bottom of this. Do you want to stay with him due to fear of the unknown, lack of stability, kids, reputation what ? If it is genuinely love, then you need to examine why you love him. Was he always cold with regard to sex ? What attracted you to him ? Has that disappeared? Why would you want to stay in a marriage like this even if you really loved him?
> 
> Finally, you need to work on yourself and building yourself back up to the person you used to be prior to this.*
> 
> *In preparation:
> 
> He is going to be gutted. He will feel emasculated and will almost certainly compare himself to the POSOM. Be ready for him going through waves of sadness, anger, bewilderment, panic etc. Your marriage may not survive this and you need to be ready for that too. It is a good idea to get some counselling for yourself before you tell him. It will help you to prepare for what is coming and handle yourself better. There is no easy solution. Even if you both decide to reconcile, it will take years for him to cope with this. Just as it has taken you years to cope with his stuff even though it was from before you were married and made any vows.*
> 
> I do commend you for taking the flak and being honest here. *And I do hope that things work out for you and by that, I do not necessarily mean reconcile but rather recover your self worth and be with someone that you genuinely love, and who genuinely loves you. This might be your husband or it might not.*
> 
> Good luck!



One thing I will point out is that I strongly advised you to get some counselling for yourself in order to come to terms with what you did, why you did it and most importantly, why you want to stay with this "husband" of yours.

I would say that you did not do that and appear to be justifying his behaviour some of the time and blaming him the other times.

Some of your subsequent posts about how this went down have made it very clear that you are not dealing with a normal man here (your husband). At the very least he is abusive and at the worst he is very dangerous (and I don't care how faithful he has been since he cheated before the marriage). However what is even more worrying is your mental state, your thoughts on this and how you are dealing with this. And you will make it very easy for your "husband" to take advantage of this.

You really need to get to a position of understanding that this marriage is not just unhealthy, it is dangerous for you and your kids. This is in addition to dealing with your behaviour etc.


So there are three issues being looked at here:



Your realisation that your husband is nuts and dangerous and you cannot be in love with him - what you are feeling at best is some kind of limerance.


Your ways of coping with stuff and the lack of boundaries and moral fibre that made you not only cheat but sort of blame him for your cheating (even though you say you do not).


What you are going to do next to proceed with what is best for you and your kids.



The way he is behaving might be understandable given what you did but he has no right to treat you this way. Not in a civilised society. 

Look at like this. In the UK, you might get a jail sentence and a criminal record for stealing. In Saudi Arabia, you lose a hand or possibly your life depending on who you steal from. He is at the Saudi end of behaviour while you are in the US. You do not need to put up with this and there is this whole board here prepared to guide you every step of the way in getting to a civilised situation.

Both of you need help!


----------



## turnera

st232 said:


> Every day but it's different.


Why?


----------



## turnera

st232 said:


> Ouch  He's does love me. He loves me...


What makes you think that?


----------



## turnera

wmn1 said:


> Dreamer,
> 
> you have been correct this entire thread IMO and I agree with your assertion that there are some posters here do have a problem with men and little regard for infidelity and I hope OP can see through that slant and protect the kids, give him some slack, protect herself totally and forces her husband to stop acting the fool. I was kind of hoping that, after what OP explained his past was, that he would show enough compassion to work on things.


So it's cool that this man has raised his voice at his wife, most likely in front of his children, nearly EVERY DAY OF THEIR MARRIAGE? He deserves some slack for that because of this one thing?


----------



## turnera

st232, please read this link. All of it.
https://www.healthline.com/health/signs-of-mental-abuse#codependence


----------



## wmn1

st232 said:


> He is only acting like this because of what I did. It's my fault and I deserve it because I cheated on him. He doesn't abuse me. I don't want to lose my kids for half their lives or all of their lives if my husband gets what he wants and it would be my fault because I ruined our family. We put it back together and I ruined it. My husband stopped cheating the last time I was pregnant because he wanted our family together and we did that and he was faithful and I ruined it. I don't want him alone with my kids because he doesn't like parenting but he'll take them from me if he can to get even. I chose this family and my kids shouldn't have a broken up family because of my mistake and inability to deal because of my mistake.


I big time respect your owning your own mistakes. I big time DISrespect his over the top reaction given his history. 

You say he has never been abusive and hasn't cheated and you know that better than anyone on this board as you live with him so I take your word on it. I do feel you have to lawyer up very quickly though because he is acting so irrationally that who knows what he's capable of. However, there is a fine line between protection and putting the final axe into a marriage that you want. As others have pointed out, it's not unusual to have a betrayed husband or wife freak the F*** out when finding out. I probably would but not everyone has his history either which should have led to a more nuanced reaction. Tread carefully and think through everything the best you can as you progress through the next weeks. Despite what you did and as bad as it was, he is fortunate to have someone who can step up, admit her fault and worship the ground he walks on despite his horrible track record. 

I don't know where this is going to end up but I agree largely with the statements Decorum has made to date.


----------



## wmn1

turnera said:


> So it's cool that this man has raised his voice at his wife, most likely in front of his children, nearly EVERY DAY OF THEIR MARRIAGE? He deserves some slack for that because of this one thing?



What don't you understand about the fact that she said here that she does not feel he is abusive ??? Obviously your judgment means more to reality than hers ?


----------



## Blondilocks

st232 said:


> Ouch  He's does love me. He loves me...


This isn't what love looks like.

It's time to take off the hair shirt and stop the self-flagellation. You've been trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear for nine years. It isn't going to happen.

Call it a day and get a divorce. In the future, require more of a man who you will call husband - he should be worthy of the title.


----------



## Decorum

st232,
There is an old Jewish proverb that I like.

"If you are wise, you are wise for yourself, if you scoff, you alone will bear it"

Everything about this situation validates both sides of this couplet.

You need to act wisely going forward. Calling the police was a very foolish thing to do. What did it gain you?

You need to use the law to your advantage. The first thing you should have done was talk to a lawyer.

Thankfully I dont think it changed the situation fundamentally, it just put you at an early disadvantage. 

Listen if he really wants this marriage he will knock down the door asking for it.

You need to realize just how unlikely that is.

Everyone wants to make this about him, but you are here asking, and you are the one in need.

As painful as it is you have just spared yourself, years of mental illness, and dependency, and laid the beginning of a new life, not to mention saving thousands of dollars in therapy fees trying to avoid feeling guilty, and depressed.

What kind of mom do you think you could be in that condition.

It is time to rebuild you. Become the woman you use to be, and more. You will never regret whatever the cost is to accomplish that.


----------



## lucy999

st232 said:


> If we divorce then my kids are alone with a crap person half the time. How is that any better? If we are together I know what is happening and I do all of the parenting.


you sound EXACTLY like my best friend whose husband is a raging alcoholic and absentee father. Kids are far more observant and capable of deep wounds and scars than we adults think. If you stay with your husband (if he wants to stay with you-road works both ways), your kids will no doubt observe deplorable behavior perpetrated on you by your husband. You mean to tell me you're ok with that?! You ain't seen nothing yet.

If your husband doesn't like parenting you would eventually end up having the kids the majority of the time anyway. you're willing to risk your kids' future emotional development with your clown of a husband if you stay?


----------



## TAMAT

ST232,

Although I don't agree with your affair, I think the cumulative effect of your Hs affairs and disrespect and emotional abuse was worse.

Your H strikes me as a man who slowly destroys someones self esteem to the point that they will submit to anything and blame themselves for his shortcomings. Possibly a narcissist.

I wouldn't say any of that if your H was just a neglectful husband or boring.


----------



## turnera

wmn1 said:


> What don't you understand about the fact that she said here that she does not feel he is abusive ??? Obviously your judgment means more to reality than hers ?


Because it's a given fact that most abuse victims don't, won't, or can't admit they are being abused because then they have to admit they're making a choice to remain. They make excuses, they refuse to speak out, they even defend their abusers. Either that or they have been so mentally beaten down that they don't recognize it as abuse. 

And I would love to hear your justification that a man who yells at his wife _every.single.day_ is not abusive. She clearly no longer understands what's being done to her as NOT normal. Such behavior is progressive, frog in boiling water stuff. Clearly he didn't start yelling at her every single day when they were dating; she showed inability to stand up to his cheating while they were dating and making kids; and the behavior escalated. As it does. Read any book or research on abuse and you'll see this.

I'm not justifying what she did. But I won't stay silent when she's being told to kiss his ass and ask for forgiveness and seek to go back to being yell at every.single.day.


----------



## Blondilocks

I don't get upset when a dog bites someone who's been kicking it.

And, I don't get upset when someone reaps what they sow. 

Would it have been preferable for the dog and abused spouse to have run away at the first sign of meanness? Yes. Would it have been preferable for ass holes to not be ass holes? Yes.


----------



## personofinterest

TAMAT said:


> ST232,
> 
> Although I don't agree with your affair, I think the cumulative effect of your Hs affairs and disrespect and emotional abuse was worse.
> 
> Your H strikes me as a man who slowly destroys someones self esteem to the point that they will submit to anything and blame themselves for his shortcomings. Possibly a narcissist.
> 
> I wouldn't say any of that if your H was just a neglectful husband or boring.


He is exactly the type of man men who are like him defend.


----------



## TAMAT

POI,

You wrote, *He is exactly the type of man men who are like him defend.*

Every so often I see that, a guy will get incensed about another dude being called out for infidelity, and then find out that the guys wife threw him out for cheating and he feels like a persecuted victim. It's like their tribe is being attacked.


----------



## personofinterest

TAMAT said:


> POI,
> 
> You wrote, *He is exactly the type of man men who are like him defend.*
> 
> Every so often I see that, a guy will get incensed about another dude being called out for infidelity, and then find out that the guys wife threw him out for cheating and he feels like a persecuted victim. It's like their tribe is being attacked.


I don't really understand this post but I'm also really tired lol. I definitely agree with your above post that I quoted.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Why didn't you call the ops back about him pushing you?

That is abuse. 

Yes I am 100% fully aware of not wanting to leave the kids alone even 50% of the time with an abusive man.

Get help.

Get custody.

Whatever custody he gets he will probably pawn off on someone else or maybe even you.

Staying in an abusive marriage is not helping the kids.


----------



## wmn1

turnera said:


> Because it's a given fact that most abuse victims don't, won't, or can't admit they are being abused because then they have to admit they're making a choice to remain. They make excuses, they refuse to speak out, they even defend their abusers. Either that or they have been so mentally beaten down that they don't recognize it as abuse.
> 
> And I would love to hear your justification that a man who yells at his wife _every.single.day_ is not abusive. She clearly no longer understands what's being done to her as NOT normal. Such behavior is progressive, frog in boiling water stuff. Clearly he didn't start yelling at her every single day when they were dating; she showed inability to stand up to his cheating while they were dating and making kids; and the behavior escalated. As it does. Read any book or research on abuse and you'll see this.
> 
> I'm not justifying what she did. But I won't stay silent when she's being told to kiss his ass and ask for forgiveness and seek to go back to being yell at every.single.day.


1) Yes, many abuse victims get some form of 'Stockholm Syndrome'. That is true. Usually from co-dependency mixed in with abuse tolerance over time.

2) While I read this thread late yesterday and today, I didn't see where he was still yelling at her every day for the last 2 years, which seems to be the timetable she is judging him on. However, it may be there and I am not going to argue about it.

3)I don't need to read books about abuse. I have 25 years in law enforcement including 6 years full time and 18 years of spot duty in DV, been to 5 national conferences, 11 workshops, have over 1000 hours training and tens of thousands of hours working in this field in both an enforcement and investigatory capacity. I know abuse when I see it or study it. Now that doesn't mean I am a fan of our DV system. I actually don't like it at all. There is a lot of bias, legal games and manipulation of the system that I think it needs to be totally revamped but I know it inside and out.

4) I think the people telling her to 'kiss his ass' went away from that after she explained his history. They still see the infidelity as being wrong and even I gave her props for acknowledging this and stepping to the plate and was also critical of his over the top reaction (a 'losing the mind' reaction which is normal for someone who may have been squeaky clean and endures this but he doesn't have that right to claim). I even said he should have shown a degree of compassion because of his own cruddy history.

5) I am not defending her husband. I do know in many of these cases, things get embellished by the cheater to mitigate. I am not accusing the OP of embellishing here per se (though it's possible) about the things he has done. Though, even if he did half of those things, it's horrible. I also am not going to say where I think this marriage should go. That will be played out in the next couple of days regardless of what anyone on this board says.

6)When I said she doesn't feel she is being abused, I was making a different point but I understand your interpretation of it. People define abuse differently. It all depends on who you are. She loves this guy (her choice) and she's not leaving him (her choice) unless he leaves her and I don't see any budging in that from her. There is a fine line on these boards. Help the OP and tell the truth bluntly. Sometimes, one is better than the other. Sometimes you can do both at the same time. Calling her husband over and over a POS and telling her to dump his arse again and again doesn't help her reach that goal that she came here for, regardless of what any of us thinks of the OP's husband. Not reminding her what he has done in the past and how it is hypocritical not to use that as collateral against his anger over her cheating on him would be a disservice to her as well. However, the way this thread is going, it will be just like the one Deejo had to close the other day. 50-100 pages of back and forth, testosterone matches where people insult each other, 5 more people banned, the thread closed and the OP leaves here no better off than when she came here. So you won't stay silent but really how much are you or many others helping the OP's situation to drive her away from what she wants so strongly ? In fact, she will get more and more scarce and defensive over time.

7) I think the OP's husband may self-destruct the relationship anyway by the way he is acting. However, just because people criticize OP for her cheating again doesn't mean that people are defending his past and current actions. I think that is incredibly ignorant for anyone on this thread to say (YOU DID NOT SAY THAT BTW but a couple have)

8) On a final note, I was subjected to emotional, physical and financial abuse in the ex and just starting off in my job, I knew that if I had to defend myself as aggressively as I needed to, I would have lost my job at the minimum. I did the best I could under the poor circumstances. It was a brief period - 3 months or so- It sucked but it wasn't as bad as her cheating on me. Nowhere close because that takes a chunk of your soul when that happens (IMO). That was the final straw to me but yes I know first hand what it feels like to be abused.

Now I will sit back and hope this thread lasts until the conclusion of events.

Again, OP, I appreciate your situation and wish you the best


----------



## wmn1

TAMAT said:


> POI,
> 
> You wrote, *He is exactly the type of man men who are like him defend.*
> 
> Every so often I see that, a guy will get incensed about another dude being called out for infidelity, and then find out that the guys wife threw him out for cheating and he feels like a persecuted victim. It's like their tribe is being attacked.


I don't know about that TAMAT. Most here (Most not all) call out everyone for infidelity. There is no tribe when it comes to cheating, or at least to most, there shouldn't be. There is a small percentage who play gender politics with it though and that is sad and obvious. 

I also rarely if ever see anyone defending spousal abuse here. That is just plain immoral


----------



## st232

I feel attacked and defeated now. I shouldn't have said anything negative about my husband.


----------



## turnera

st232, that is exactly the answer an abused wife would give. Did you read the link I provided?

btw, the fact that you told him the truth is admirable. No matter what happens, have faith in yourself for that.


----------



## st232

turnera said:


> st232, that is exactly the answer an abused wife would give. Did you read the link I provided?
> 
> btw, the fact that you told him the truth is admirable. No matter what happens, have faith in yourself for that.


I did read it and I do a lot of those points but I want to be with my husband. He doesn't believe me and thinks I did more and worse.


----------



## personofinterest

wmn1 said:


> turnera said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because it's a given fact that most abuse victims don't, won't, or can't admit they are being abused because then they have to admit they're making a choice to remain. They make excuses, they refuse to speak out, they even defend their abusers. Either that or they have been so mentally beaten down that they don't recognize it as abuse.
> 
> And I would love to hear your justification that a man who yells at his wife _every.single.day_ is not abusive. She clearly no longer understands what's being done to her as NOT normal. Such behavior is progressive, frog in boiling water stuff. Clearly he didn't start yelling at her every single day when they were dating; she showed inability to stand up to his cheating while they were dating and making kids; and the behavior escalated. As it does. Read any book or research on abuse and you'll see this.
> 
> I'm not justifying what she did. But I won't stay silent when she's being told to kiss his ass and ask for forgiveness and seek to go back to being yell at every.single.day.
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Yes, many abuse victims get some form of 'Stockholm Syndrome'. That is true. Usually from co-dependency mixed in with abuse tolerance over time.
> 
> 2) While I read this thread late yesterday and today, I didn't see where he was still yelling at her every day for the last 2 years, which seems to be the timetable she is judging him on. However, it may be there and I am not going to argue about it.
> 
> 3)I don't need to read books about abuse. I have 25 years in law enforcement including 6 years full time and 18 years of spot duty in DV, been to 5 national conferences, 11 workshops, have over 1000 hours training and tens of thousands of hours working in this field in both an enforcement and investigatory capacity. I know abuse when I see it or study it. Now that doesn't mean I am a fan of our DV system. I actually don't like it at all. There is a lot of bias, legal games and manipulation of the system that I think it needs to be totally revamped but I know it inside and out.
> 
> 4) I think the people telling her to 'kiss his ass' went away from that after she explained his history. They still see the infidelity as being wrong and even I gave her props for acknowledging this and stepping to the plate and was also critical of his over the top reaction (a 'losing the mind' reaction which is normal for someone who may have been squeaky clean and endures this but he doesn't have that right to claim). I even said he should have shown a degree of compassion because of his own cruddy history.
> 
> 5) I am not defending her husband. I do know in many of these cases, things get embellished by the cheater to mitigate. I am not accusing the OP of embellishing here per se (though it's possible) about the things he has done. Though, even if he did half of those things, it's horrible. I also am not going to say where I think this marriage should go. That will be played out in the next couple of days regardless of what anyone on this board says.
> 
> 6)When I said she doesn't feel she is being abused, I was making a different point but I understand your interpretation of it. People define abuse differently. It all depends on who you are. She loves this guy (her choice) and she's not leaving him (her choice) unless he leaves her and I don't see any budging in that from her. There is a fine line on these boards. Help the OP and tell the truth bluntly. Sometimes, one is better than the other. Sometimes you can do both at the same time. Calling her husband over and over a POS and telling her to dump his arse again and again doesn't help her reach that goal that she came here for, regardless of what any of us thinks of the OP's husband. Not reminding her what he has done in the past and how it is hypocritical not to use that as collateral against his anger over her cheating on him would be a disservice to her as well. However, the way this thread is going, it will be just like the one Deejo had to close the other day. 50-100 pages of back and forth, testosterone matches where people insult each other, 5 more people banned, the thread closed and the OP leaves here no better off than when she came here. So you won't stay silent but really how much are you or many others helping the OP's situation to drive her away from what she wants so strongly ? In fact, she will get more and more scarce and defensive over time.
> 
> 7) I think the OP's husband may self-destruct the relationship anyway by the way he is acting. However, just because people criticize OP for her cheating again doesn't mean that people are defending his past and current actions. I think that is incredibly ignorant for anyone on this thread to say (YOU DID NOT SAY THAT BTW but a couple have)
> 
> 8) On a final note, I was subjected to emotional, physical and financial abuse in the ex and just starting off in my job, I knew that if I had to defend myself as aggressively as I needed to, I would have lost my job at the minimum. I did the best I could under the poor circumstances. It was a brief period - 3 months or so- It sucked but it wasn't as bad as her cheating on me. Nowhere close because that takes a chunk of your soul when that happens (IMO). That was the final straw to me but yes I know first hand what it feels like to be abused.
> 
> Now I will sit back and hope this thread lasts until the conclusion of events.
> 
> Again, OP, I appreciate your situation and wish you the best
Click to expand...

 No wonder women are afraid to report, with this kind of disgusting bias.


----------



## notmyjamie

st232 said:


> I did read it and I do a lot of those points but I want to be with my husband. He doesn't believe me and thinks I did more and worse.


I'm so very sorry you're going through all this. Give it time. He may calm down. If not, know that you've done a good thing by being honest. You're a good person. 

*hugs*


----------



## Decorum

st232 said:


> I feel attacked and defeated now. I shouldn't have said anything negative about my husband.


It has gone over the top, and you are suffering and looking for support while the proxy war between the genders rages here in an attempt to punish or vindicate your husband at you and your children's expense.

You need to find some support where you live.

You also need to step back from this level of subjectivity, and gain some rational objectivity. 

This subjectivity is what permitted you treat yourself to reunion douchbag in the first place, and possibly become the mother of his child.

If you knew your children's plight was so dire with their dad, why would you risk their well being for your own gratification?

The way you are feeling and talking right now is the same type of thinking that precipitated your current dilemma. 

When does it end? 

When does that responsible person, woman, mom, emerge to make good decisions from a position of strength.

Where is she?

Are you staying away from alcohol?

The truth is not your enemy when you are speaking it to yourself. 

This is an anonymous forum of internet strangers. Use this to gain knowledge, and insight but don't think of it as your BFF.


----------



## wmn1

personofinterest said:


> No wonder women are afraid to report, with this kind of disgusting bias.


It's actually men who historically have been afraid to report based on my PERSONAL experience and some studies and btw your bias is disgusting and has rung through this entire thread. I just report based on my vast experience. You ? What is yours ? And who have you helped ? 

BTW, I gave referrals to over 100 battered women last year and over 40 men. Show me the bias ??

I will be waiting ...


----------



## wmn1

st232 said:


> I feel attacked and defeated now. I shouldn't have said anything negative about my husband.


Listen to what Decorum has said. He is a wise old vet on this board. 

Don't feel attacked or defeated. The criticisms are over the top and I feel badly for you. 

Not to be Decorum's echo chamber but you have to do what is right for you and if that means waiting around a few days to see if he calms down, as long as his rage doesn't hurt you, do it. It is your marriage and your choice. 

I will have your back on that whichever direction you go. 

And again, I truly appreciate your honesty and having the fortitude to step up and admit your failing. Now he needs to admit his from the other night and needs to fight for his family and you. 

These threads can turn ugly. You have to give some ammo but can give too much. Tread carefully but keep this forum informed


----------



## wmn1

Decorum said:


> It has gone over the top, and you are suffering and looking for support while the proxy war between the genders rages here in an attempt to punish or vindicate your husband at you and your children's expense.
> 
> You need to find some support where you live.
> 
> You also need to step back from this level of subjectivity, and gain some rational objectivity.
> 
> This subjectivity is what permitted you treat yourself to reunion douchbag in the first place, and possibly become the mother of his child.
> 
> If you knew your children's plight was so dire with their dad, why would you risk their well being for your own gratification?
> 
> The way you are feeling and talking right now is the same type of thinking that precipitated your current dilemma.
> 
> When does it end?
> 
> When does that responsible person, woman, mom, emerge to make good decisions from a position of strength.
> 
> Where is she?
> 
> Are you staying away from alcohol?
> 
> The truth is not your enemy, when you are speaking it to yourself.
> 
> This is an anonymous forum of internet strangers. Use this to gain knowledge, and insight but don't think of it as your BFF.


This above !!!


----------



## wmn1

notmyjamie said:


> I'm so very sorry you're going through all this. Give it time. He may calm down. If not, know that you've done a good thing by being honest. You're a good person.
> 
> *hugs*



agreed. Well said


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

To be blunt, your situation is a shltshow. Your serial cheater of a husband is pissed at you for cheating??? The irony... Also, your AP seems like a real POS who took advantage of your insecurities. Your husband is constantly angry at you and/or the kids and shows you little affection after he stops his serial cheating ways?

Sorry to say it, but you need to divorce. You also need to figure out why you are attracted to *******s who like to treat you like ****. Do you have some traumatic family experiences that you need to work thru? Honestly, I'd bet you do. Just seems like you are attracted to ****ty people and are paying the price for it. You still need to figure out why you ultimately cheated beyond the obvious reasons. But IMHO, what you had was a revenge affair for the wrongs you suffered earlier. You need counseling to sort this **** IMHO.


----------



## turnera

st232 said:


> I did read it and I do a lot of those points but I want to be with my husband. He doesn't believe me and thinks I did more and worse.


Of course you want to be with him. He has destroyed your self worth, has convinced you nobody else will ever want you, convinced you that you can't survive without a man cos you're that stupid, and convinced you that you will never amount to anything without him.

I wasn't asking what YOU do in that link I was asking you what HE did.


----------



## turnera

wmn1 said:


> It's actually men who historically have been afraid to report based on my PERSONAL experience and some studies and btw your bias is disgusting and has rung through this entire thread. I just report based on my vast experience. You ? What is yours ? And who have you helped ?
> 
> BTW, I gave referrals to over 100 battered women last year and over 40 men. Show me the bias ??
> 
> I will be waiting ...


Last T/J, for OP's sake: Considering that 95% of all abuse happens to women, that's not much of a curve. Disgusting bias much?


----------



## wmn1

turnera said:


> Last T/J, for OP's sake: Considering that 95% of all abuse happens to women, that's not much of a curve. Disgusting bias much?[/QUOT
> 
> The 95% stat is a bunch of BS. Even DOJ shows 85% and other studies from pro-family groups show 60%. My jurisdiction stats are 58 to 42 so try again because your stats don't line up and since I work in the field and have access to both the stats and the personal files, which I can't disclose, I feel you are FOS


----------



## wmn1

turnera said:


> Last T/J, for OP's sake: Considering that 95% of all abuse happens to women, that's not much of a curve. Disgusting bias much?


btw stats are even overrated. On my own time, I file counted RO's I know the real numbers. Try again


----------



## wmn1

turnera said:


> Last T/J, for OP's sake: Considering that 95% of all abuse happens to women, that's not much of a curve. Disgusting bias much?


old study but it hasn't changed 


https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/the-number-of-male-domestic-1284479771263030.html


----------



## wmn1

and yes for OP's sake enough T/J


----------



## st232

turnera said:


> Of course you want to be with him. He has destroyed your self worth, has convinced you nobody else will ever want you, convinced you that you can't survive without a man cos you're that stupid, and convinced you that you will never amount to anything without him.
> 
> I wasn't asking what YOU do in that link I was asking you what HE did.


Name calling, character assassination, yelling, patronizing, dismissiveness, "joking", sarcasm, insults of your appearance, pushing buttons.

Threats, direct orders, outbursts, unpredictable, walk out. 

Blaming you for their problems, saying you have no sense of humor, trivializing, denying their abuse, goading then blaming. 

Demanding respect, shutting down communication, dehumanizing you, withholding affection, turning you out, calling you needy, indifference, dispute your feelings.


----------



## st232

I'm a bad mom for staying. I'm a bad mom for going. I'm a bad mom for ruining my kids lives. I'm a bad mom for risking my kids wellbeing. Even if I divorce my kids will see him regardless because he's the dad I picked for them. I wouldn't have had my first if I knew this was how it was going to be. He wasn't like this before and its my fault because he wasn't like this before being with me. I don't want my kids with him 50% of the time. He doesn't yell at them as much as me and he doesn't hit or push them but he could. I know how leaving can go and what can happen and that isn't worth the risk to me. My real mom died leaving. She did everything right to leave and when the day came she died. I can't leave and I need my husband to stay with me. If I was a better wife my husband would treat me better.


----------



## SecondWind

Listen to Decorum and wmn1. They are not triggered or gender biased and are objective.

Can you find a shelter to stay at until you can speak with a lawyer so you can get back in your home?


----------



## EveningThoughts

QUOTE: 
I know how leaving can go and what can happen and that isn't worth the risk to me. My real mom died leaving. She did everything right to leave and when the day came she died. END QUOTE

Now the above is very important information 

How did your mum die, if that's not too personal a question?

You say she did everything right to leave. Does this mean you agree she was right to leave her situation?

If your real mum was able to give you any advice on your own situation, what do you think it would be?


----------



## notmyjamie

st232 said:


> I'm a bad mom for staying. I'm a bad mom for going. I'm a bad mom for ruining my kids lives. I'm a bad mom for risking my kids wellbeing. Even if I divorce my kids will see him regardless because he's the dad I picked for them. I wouldn't have had my first if I knew this was how it was going to be. He wasn't like this before and its my fault because he wasn't like this before being with me. I don't want my kids with him 50% of the time. He doesn't yell at them as much as me and he doesn't hit or push them but he could. I know how leaving can go and what can happen and that isn't worth the risk to me. My real mom died leaving. She did everything right to leave and when the day came she died. I can't leave and I need my husband to stay with me. If I was a better wife my husband would treat me better.


For starters, you are not a bad Mom. It's very clear you love your kids. And you won't be a bad Mom if you leave. And just because he treats you so badly does not mean he'd start treating the kids like that, he would most likely just go out and find a new woman to treat badly. If he truly hates spending time with the kids as you say, he'll just start taking them less and less over time until they don't see him very much at all.

AND IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let me say that again...IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!!! He has some serious character flaws...those are his and his alone. You could be the very best wife on the planet and he would treat you the same because his character flaw is to exert control over women.

My ex had borderline personality disorder. I was treated in much the same way that you are being treated. I finally decided I was worth more than that and I left him many years ago. In the meantime he has gotten a lot of help, started meds, etc. Believe it or not, we are friendly now. He has told me more times than I count recently how it was never about me...it was always about him. He treated his wife exactly the same as he treated me.

Please, please, please get yourself booked in to start some therapy. You really, really need it. You've suffered some serious traumas. You are worth so much more than you think. I think you subconsciously blew your marriage up so you could get out. You need to realize you can get out without that, just leave. If you are worried about yours and the kids' safety, go to the police station and ask for help. They can help get you into a shelter.


----------



## wmn1

SecondWind said:


> Listen to Decorum and wmn1. They are not triggered or gender biased and are objective.
> 
> Can you find a shelter to stay at until you can speak with a lawyer so you can get back in your home?


This is a very good suggestion, ST. You seriously need legal advice. Having a good lawyer may be the key to stabilization. You need to be safe within your own home, despite the $hit*how that Plan 9 described. If you have to get out fast, a shelter, as Secondwind referred to, is an option. They have vastly improved over my 25 years in the field. Your parents are another excellent option.

Most of all, you seem to be all over the place. You say you love him and want to stay but then you just produced a second post accusing your H of being some type of crazy, even after you regret your first post of doing the same thing. 

You need to do what Decorum suggested. You need to figure out what you want and make decisions based on that at this point. You seem to be spinning in circles. That's not an insult. If you go back and read what you posted over the last 12 hours, you will se what I am talking about


----------



## azimuth

wmn1 said:


> This is a very good suggestion, ST. You seriously need legal advice. Having a good lawyer may be the key to stabilization. You need to be safe within your own home, despite the $hit*how that Plan 9 described. If you have to get out fast, a shelter, as Secondwind referred to, is an option. They have vastly improved over my 25 years in the field. *Your parents are another excellent option.
> *
> Most of all, you seem to be all over the place. You say you love him and want to stay but then you just produced a second post accusing your H of being some type of crazy, even after you regret your first post of doing the same thing.
> 
> You need to do what Decorum suggested. You need to figure out what you want and make decisions based on that at this point. You seem to be spinning in circles. That's not an insult. If you go back and read what you posted over the last 12 hours, you will se what I am talking about



Her mother passed away trying to get away from her abusive father.


----------



## personofinterest

wmn1 said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> No wonder women are afraid to report, with this kind of disgusting bias.
> 
> 
> 
> It's actually men who historically have been afraid to report based on my PERSONAL experience and some studies and btw your bias is disgusting and has rung through this entire thread. I just report based on my vast experience. You ? What is yours ? And who have you helped ?
> 
> BTW, I gave referrals to over 100 battered women last year and over 40 men. Show me the bias ??
> 
> I will be waiting ...
Click to expand...

 Goody for you. I am not going to beat my own drum because I have nothing to defend. And I agree that the way abused men are treated is reprehensible. Men should not have to be ashamed to report an abusive woman. That said, you have basically excused her husband's abuse. Yes… you have. You all but called her a liar by claiming that she embellished. Shame on you


----------



## personofinterest

SecondWind said:


> Listen to Decorum and wmn1. They are not triggered or gender biased and are objective.
> 
> Can you find a shelter to stay at until you can speak with a lawyer so you can get back in your home?


Neither am i.

The affair was wrong. So is her husband's reaction.

Anyone who cannot agree on BOTH thisectruths is choosing to be obtuse.

OP, there is a difference between healthy guilt for a bad choice and toxic shame. Someone who truly wants to help you as you will not cross the line from helping you make amends for your guilt into enabling toxic shame. Be very careful about anyone who encourages self flagellation and shame.


----------



## MattMatt

st232 said:


> I'm a bad mom for staying. I'm a bad mom for going. I'm a bad mom for ruining my kids lives. I'm a bad mom for risking my kids wellbeing. Even if I divorce my kids will see him regardless because he's the dad I picked for them. I wouldn't have had my first if I knew this was how it was going to be. He wasn't like this before and its my fault because he wasn't like this before being with me. I don't want my kids with him 50% of the time. He doesn't yell at them as much as me and he doesn't hit or push them but he could. I know how leaving can go and what can happen and that isn't worth the risk to me. My real mom died leaving. She did everything right to leave and when the day came she died. I can't leave and I need my husband to stay with me. If I was a better wife my husband would treat me better.


Not at all. You are a good mom. Your only problem is that you married beneath you.


----------



## dreamer2017

Dear ST232,

In this point in time, you must stop degrading yourself and concentration your efforts on providing a good home for your children. This requires you to receive good legal advice from an attorney that specializes in family and domestic abuse. I refuse to give you any guidance on case law in that area because that is not my area of expertise. I preside over other areas of the law. I can only recommend a path to a holistic approach for healing. You can also contact your local social services who have a tremendous amount of resources in helping families during their time of need.

Some social services have resources in counseling, mental health, legal services, and housing, which could help you and your children. They can also recommend services for your husband if he agrees to receive help. You have a long road ahead of you, and you will receive many recommendations. Pick and choose what is good for you. If you reread my first post, I said, you are not a bad person but made some bad decisions. Every decision in life has consequences; some good and some bad. We all are human, and no-one is exempt from that. Seek out the advice from the experts and move forward.

I am hoping for the best for you and your family.

Personofinterest, I totally agree with your last post. You see, we can agree.

Last but not least, you must know your rights and the law. No one can remove you from your place of residences unless they have a court order (check state law). Locks can be changed, but keys must be given to all residences. No one can put their hands on you.

Best,
Dreamer


----------



## SecondWind

personofinterest said:


> Anyone who cannot agree on BOTH thisectruths is choosing to be obtuse.


So you insult and name call anyone who doesn't think exactly like you?


----------



## personofinterest

SecondWind said:


> So you insult and name call anyone who doesn't think exactly like you?


No, I don't respect anyone who cannot see the obvious:

It is wrong to cheat

It is wrong to kick out a mother, threaten her with the loss of her children, lie to police, lie to friends and family, shove and push

If you cannot agree that both of those things are wrong, that is a testament to YOUR character, not mine.


----------



## wmn1

personofinterest said:


> Goody for you. I am not going to beat my own drum because I have nothing to defend. And I agree that the way abused men are treated is reprehensible. Men should not have to be ashamed to report an abusive woman. That said, you have basically excused her husband's abuse. Yes… you have. You all but called her a liar by claiming that she embellished. Shame on you



I didn't call her a liar, I just said sometimes people embellish and sometimes they don't. I specifically stated that I was not labeling her as that here.

Secondly, unless you have a hard time reading, which you do btw, I have been pretty roundly critical of her husband's behavior. I shouldn't have to point to the posts. You can read, you are an adult. Do the research. I specifically said numerous times that I don't defend his behavior. So again, why lie ? And why do you continue to attack people here ?

I never said she embellished. I said it was a possibility. I never excused his behavior. Not one time. So my question is ... What is your deal ? And why are you trying to blow up this thread ?

And also again, what is your expertise in this area ? I have laid out mine and you said it was disgusting bias but never once did you point out where my bias is and why it is wrong.


----------



## wmn1

personofinterest said:


> Neither am i.
> 
> The affair was wrong. So is her husband's reaction.
> 
> Anyone who cannot agree on BOTH thisectruths is choosing to be obtuse.
> 
> OP, there is a difference between healthy guilt for a bad choice and toxic shame. Someone who truly wants to help you as you will not cross the line from helping you make amends for your guilt into enabling toxic shame. Be very careful about anyone who encourages self flagellation and shame.


and I called out both the affair and her husband's response so I am baffled that you continue to attack me and secondwind. Instead of attacking, why don't you help this young lady ?


----------



## azimuth

wmn1 said:


> I didn't call her a liar, I just said sometimes people embellish and sometimes they don't. I specifically stated that I was not labeling her as that here.
> 
> Secondly, unless you have a hard time reading, which you do btw, I have been pretty roundly critical of her husband's behavior. I shouldn't have to point to the posts. You can read, you are an adult. Do the research. I specifically said numerous times that I don't defend his behavior. So again, why lie ? And why do you continue to attack people here ?
> 
> I never said she embellished. I said it was a possibility. I never excused his behavior. Not one time. So my question is ... What is your deal ? And why are you trying to blow up this thread ?
> 
> And also again, what is your expertise in this area ? I have laid out mine and you said it was disgusting bias but never once did you point out where my bias is and why it is wrong.



Why did you tell OP that her parents were an excellent choice to turn to? Did you not read a couple posts above yours that her mother died trying to leave an abusive husband? Do you recognize that OP is caught up in the cycle of abuse?


----------



## wmn1

azimuth said:


> Her mother passed away trying to get away from her abusive father.


Yeah I see that in her post overnight. Truly sad. I wonder to what degree that fact is influencing her.


----------



## wmn1

personofinterest said:


> No, I don't respect anyone who cannot see the obvious:
> 
> It is wrong to cheat
> 
> It is wrong to kick out a mother, threaten her with the loss of her children, lie to police, lie to friends and family, shove and push
> 
> If you cannot agree that both of those things are wrong, that is a testament to YOUR character, not mine.




I agree with all of this and based on my statements over the last day, I back it up. So why do you attack other posters who agree with the above statement ?


----------



## wmn1

azimuth said:


> Why did you tell OP that her parents were an excellent choice to turn to? Did you not read a couple posts above yours that her mother died trying to leave an abusive husband? Do you recognize that OP is caught up in the cycle of abuse?


1) I didn't read the few posts above me

2) I already recognized multiple times what I feel about her husband and that she has suffered abuse

3) Just because I missed one post doesn't mean I haven't paid attention to the thread

4) You made your point earlier so why are you shoving it in my face ?


----------



## personofinterest

wmn1 said:


> I agree with all of this and based on my statements over the last day, I back it up. So why do you attack other posters who agree with the above statement ?


You are free to put me on ignore

If you read the entire thread, you see that I encouraged the OP to come clean, I encouraged her to take full responsibility. I recommended books and ways to make amends.

Once her husband's past and his reaction to her confession came to light, I turned my attention to HER welfare because, quite frankly, there were already enough people positioned to remind her that she cheated.

A man who yells at his wife every day of their marriage (I don't know where the 2 years thing came from because she was CLEAR that it has always been an every day thing), who lies to police, who locks her out of the house, who threatens to use their children as punishment, and who spreads slander and libel about mental illness and pregnancies (HE seems to be the one embellishing) is not someone she needs to cower under and cater to right now. Yes, remorse and change is VERY important. However, giving power to someone who is behaving the way her husband is is just inviting more abuse.

It goes back to a post I made in the middle of the thread - are people responsible for their own choices, or aren't they? We cannot say "she is responsible for her choice to cheat no matter what" and then say "Oh, well, he is only acting this way because he found out she cheated."

OP, my advice to you would be to keep working on yourself and your own issues, make amends in the ways you can safely do so. However do NOT open yourself up to more abuse, and protect your rights as a person and as a mother fiercely.


----------



## wmn1

personofinterest said:


> You are free to put me on ignore
> 
> If you read the entire thread, you see that I encouraged the OP to come clean, I encouraged her to take full responsibility. I recommended books and ways to make amends.
> 
> Once her husband's past and his reaction to her confession came to light, I turned my attention to HER welfare because, quite frankly, there were already enough people positioned to remind her that she cheated.
> 
> A man who yells at his wife every day of their marriage (I don't know where the 2 years thing came from because she was CLEAR that it has always been an every day thing), who lies to police, who locks her out of the house, who threatens to use their children as punishment, and who spreads slander and libel about mental illness and pregnancies (HE seems to be the one embellishing) is not someone she needs to cower under and cater to right now. Yes, remorse and change is VERY important. However, giving power to someone who is behaving the way her husband is is just inviting more abuse.
> 
> It goes back to a post I made in the middle of the thread - are people responsible for their own choices, or aren't they? We cannot say "she is responsible for her choice to cheat no matter what" and then say "Oh, well, he is only acting this way because he found out she cheated."
> 
> OP, my advice to you would be to keep working on yourself and your own issues, make amends in the ways you can safely do so. However do NOT open yourself up to more abuse, and protect your rights as a person and as a mother fiercely.


She is confused between loyalty and taking care of herself. That's what she is. I hope she finds out what she needs to do and the sooner the better. Choose one option or the other but get it done. 

I completely agree with your last statement. 

Either these two need a complete rebuild or they need to part ways.

Just understand, the other posters here aren't the enemy unless one steps way out of line. Secondwind and Dreamer seem like really good people to contribute here for a while. I will admit. This is not my primary board. I just thik the focus should be on her and not other posters and I get caught up in the crap too so I get it

However, I have tremendous experience in this area and I can read through some things but in this world of cheating and DV, nothing is absolute. Part of me wants them to survive, part of me thinks it's best that they end it. 

And you are right, she is responsible for her own choice.


----------



## wmn1

SecondWind said:


> Don't put personofinterest on ignore so she can derail threads at will. Report her.
> 
> OP I hope the infighting started by personofinterest doesn't keep you from posting.
> 
> How are you doing today? Where did you sleep last night? Have you seen a lawyer?


I am glad you are here with us btw. Keep contributing !!! Your thoughts mean a lot


----------



## turnera

st232 said:


> Name calling, character assassination, yelling, patronizing, dismissiveness, "joking", sarcasm, insults of your appearance, pushing buttons.
> 
> Threats, direct orders, outbursts, unpredictable, walk out.
> 
> Blaming you for their problems, saying you have no sense of humor, trivializing, denying their abuse, goading then blaming.
> 
> Demanding respect, shutting down communication, dehumanizing you, withholding affection, turning you out, calling you needy, indifference, dispute your feelings.


st232, every bit of this is ABUSE.

You can't recognize it because you're in the middle of it and you've been mentally beaten down to the point of not believing in yourself. PLEASE find a therapist and start going. You need help dealing with this from a professional who will help you see your options and what's right and wrong, ok? Please find someone today.


----------



## turnera

st232 said:


> I'm a bad mom for staying. I'm a bad mom for going. I'm a bad mom for ruining my kids lives. I'm a bad mom for risking my kids wellbeing. Even if I divorce my kids will see him regardless because he's the dad I picked for them. I wouldn't have had my first if I knew this was how it was going to be. He wasn't like this before and its my fault because he wasn't like this before being with me.


How do you know he wasn't like this before he was with you - you weren't WITH him. That's illogical.

And if you give your kids ONE home out of two that is loving, healthy, free, and nondysfunctional, they will be able to grow up understanding what good looks like, and will be able to CHOOSE that as they grow up. If all they grow up in is abuse, abuse will be what they live with as adults.


----------



## MattMatt

*Moderator Warning:-*

No more threadjacks, please. _And no more attacks on other members_.

If you can't stand reading the posts of some members, do NOT hijack a thread where someone is desperate for help to attack the other member.


----------



## TJW

turnera said:


> How do you know he wasn't like this before he was with you - you weren't WITH him. That's illogical.


You so correctly and fully understand that your choice to cheat was not your husband's fault. You are right to have confessed and forsaken your own sinful actions. This is commendable. You are still very much in the "knee-jerk" period for him.

Please also understand, that your husband's choices in the way he treats you, and in his own fornication, are not your fault. Not in any way. Your husband has, most likely, been this kind of individual long before you and will, without intervention and professional help, continue in the same choices and behavior.

It is good that he is being faithful to his marital vows, and he needs to come to a place of repentance for mistreating you. His "too much work" and kleenex preference show me that he is a self-centered person who sorely needs to come into a right relationship with his Lord and be a good husband in the coming days. I do not condone the things he has done in the past, nor do I condone what he is doing in the present.

I'm looking forward to reading here how you two have gotten some wise counsel and are working upon fixing the marital problems you have.


----------



## wmn1

TJW said:


> You so correctly and fully understand that your choice to cheat was not your husband's fault. You are right to have confessed and forsaken your own sinful actions. This is commendable. You are still very much in the "knee-jerk" period for him.
> 
> Please also understand, that your husband's choices in the way he treats you, and in his own fornication, are not your fault. Not in any way. Your husband has, most likely, been this kind of individual long before you and will, without intervention and professional help, continue in the same choices and behavior.
> 
> It is good that he is being faithful to his marital vows, and he needs to come to a place of repentance for mistreating you. His "too much work" and kleenex preference show me that he is a self-centered person who sorely needs to come into a right relationship with his Lord and be a good husband in the coming days. I do not condone the things he has done in the past, nor do I condone what he is doing in the present.
> 
> I'm looking forward to reading here how you two have gotten some wise counsel and are working upon fixing the marital problems you have.


excellent post. Thanks. 100% correct


----------



## TOMTEFAR

turnera said:


> Last T/J, for OP's sake: Considering that 95% of all abuse happens to women, that's not much of a curve. Disgusting bias much?


Actually that is dead wrong. Abuse is evenly spread. Physical abuse has a slightly larger % of male perpetrators but it's not very much large. At the same time abuse in the form of verbal and emotional have a slightly larger % of women perpetraitors. 

There are a lot of studies you can easely google that shows this.

Basically men and women are equally abusive.


----------



## TOMTEFAR

st232 said:


> I'm a bad mom for staying. I'm a bad mom for going. I'm a bad mom for ruining my kids lives. I'm a bad mom for risking my kids wellbeing. Even if I divorce my kids will see him regardless because he's the dad I picked for them. I wouldn't have had my first if I knew this was how it was going to be. He wasn't like this before and its my fault because he wasn't like this before being with me. I don't want my kids with him 50% of the time. He doesn't yell at them as much as me and he doesn't hit or push them but he could. I know how leaving can go and what can happen and that isn't worth the risk to me. My real mom died leaving. She did everything right to leave and when the day came she died. I can't leave and I need my husband to stay with me. *If I was a better wife my husband would treat me better*.


That bold part makes me realy scared for you. It is NEVER the abused persons fault! I seriously want you to tack to a therapist. You realy need to, both for your self and defonately for your kids!


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

TOMTEFAR said:


> That bold part makes me realy scared for you. It is NEVER the abused persons fault! I seriously want you to tack to a therapist. You realy need to, both for your self and defonately for your kids!


That statement made me recoil as well. 
@st232



First of all, if you were so bad, he wouldn't or at least shouldn't have married you. He has ZERO reason to complain about who you are. He knew who you were and he married you. NO FAULT OF YOURS THERE!

Now, even more relevant, is that based on what you've told us, we all know now, as you know, that your husband has mistreated you for years. This is *NOT *because of you being a bad wife or who you are, but rather an indication of who *HE *is. Period. 

So secondly, here's the ground truth of why your statement about him being justified in his treatment of you is so dead wrong. Since he as been continually abusive of you for years, you could just as easily say that you had your sudden fling because he is a **** husband. While few here would condone the action you took, none here would disagree with the assessment that your husband is NOT a good husband. And yet, you have never once claimed his abuse as an excuse for your infidelity. Now turn that around. If he had any integrity himself, he would NEVER, EVER, EVER blame YOU for HIS behavior. 

It's clear you are looking at this whole thing through some very distorted, and worse, unhealthy lenses. You definitely should seek some intensive individual counseling immediately. We are getting very concerned about your statements and where they may lead. 

Please, take care. We're all rooting for you.


----------



## personofinterest

rocky mountain yeti said:


> tomtefar said:
> 
> 
> 
> that bold part makes me realy scared for you. It is never the abused persons fault! I seriously want you to tack to a therapist. You realy need to, both for your self and defonately for your kids!
> 
> 
> 
> that statement made me recoil as well.
> 
> @st232
> 
> 
> 
> first of all, if you were so bad, he wouldn't or at least shouldn't have married you. He has zero reason to complain about who you are. He knew who you were and he married you. No fault of yours there!
> 
> Now, even more relevant, is that based on what you've told us, we all know now, as you know, that your husband has mistreated you for years. This is *not *because of you being a bad wife or who you are, but rather an indication of who *he *is. Period.
> 
> So secondly, here's the ground truth of why your statement about him being justified in his treatment of you is so dead wrong. Since he as been continually abusive of you for years, you could just as easily say that you had your sudden fling because he is a **** husband. While few here would condone the action you took, none here would disagree with the assessment that your husband is not a good husband. And yet, you have never once claimed his abuse as an excuse for your infidelity. Now turn that around. If he had any integrity himself, he would never, ever, ever blame you for his behavior.
> 
> It's clear you are looking at this whole thing through some very distorted, and worse, unhealthy lenses. You definitely should seek some intensive individual counseling immediately. We are getting very concerned about your statements and where they may lead.
> 
> Please, take care. We're all rooting for you.
Click to expand...

exactly!!


----------



## Bibi1031

st232 said:


> I don't want to leave him or lose him. Everything in my marriage I agreed to when I married him. I knew what I was signing up for and agreed to put it behind us. Two wrongs don't make a right. I can ***** about my marriage but it's the one I chose. Theres no you did it first in marriage.


Two wrongs don't make a right all right. That is why your reunion came out side ways. You may have forgiven your husband with words, but the sideways reaction tells a different story. That was your first mistake. Your second mistake was saying your "I do" to a serial cheater.

Your indiscretion is indeed an exit affair. It simply came out sideways. I hope he doesn't forgive you and sets you free. You deserve better than accepting the sham of a marriage you agreed to. 

Please get professional help. You picked a wrong man to marry. He is not marriage material. He sucks rocks in all honesty. That can't be love. It is obviously painful to see it can't be healthy love what you feel at all. I have not read after your quote above, but you didn't break any vows. Your marriage was a hell you should of never had signed up for. Love yourself enough to get out please!


----------



## Bibi1031

I am finally caught up.

Oh ST, you are a great mom. You have been trying so hard for a very long time. Please get real help from family and loved ones. You have a twin brother. Please call him up. Do you have any family or friends where you live right now? I don't think you work because you probably stay and take care of your kids. 

Your husband is an abuser. He had a gem of a wife and two beautiful kids. He doesn't have the capacity or tools not to destroy you and the kids. Please see a lawyer. You need to get your babies back and the right to get rid of their dad. He is a terrible man. Stop the cycle of abuse here. It has been 12 awful years honey. It is time to let him go and save yourself and the kids. Find help ASAP!

((((Hugs))))

You came to the right place online. We are here for you. Now go fight for your babies in real life by getting a good lawyer and some serious therapy for the 3 of you.


----------



## wmn1

TOMTEFAR said:


> Actually that is dead wrong. Abuse is evenly spread. Physical abuse has a slightly larger % of male perpetrators but it's not very much large. At the same time abuse in the form of verbal and emotional have a slightly larger % of women perpetraitors.
> 
> There are a lot of studies you can easely google that shows this.
> 
> Basically men and women are equally abusive.


agreed. The numbers are closer than people realize.


----------



## personofinterest

wmn1 said:


> TOMTEFAR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually that is dead wrong. Abuse is evenly spread. Physical abuse has a slightly larger % of male perpetrators but it's not very much large. At the same time abuse in the form of verbal and emotional have a slightly larger % of women perpetraitors.
> 
> There are a lot of studies you can easely google that shows this.
> 
> Basically men and women are equally abusive.
> 
> 
> 
> agreed. The numbers are closer than people realize.
Click to expand...

 OP, other than the affair that you confessed, can you think of any abusive behaviors that you perpetrate on your own husband? In your particular situation, it is your husband who is acting abusively toward you. I'm not sure how helpful abuse stats are to YOU



Have you had a chance to speak with an attorney about your rights? Is your husband calming down any or is he still very angry?


----------



## turnera

T/J: personofinterest, I'm sorry to hear that. Best of luck.


----------



## BioFury

st232 said:


> He stopped cheating on me then I went and ruined everything.


Girl, everything has been ruined for a long time. You just didn't realize it for some reason. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Deleted post.


----------



## notmyjamie

@st232,

How are you doing? Thinking about you and hoping you are well.


----------



## VFW

I have a couple of things for you to think about. First lose the if I had been a better wife, he would be a better husband attitude. Many of us have been cheated on and that is not how we responded. I understand him being hurt, but I question this relationship even before the reunion. I think you need to take a very honest evaluation of this relationship, though it is probably a moot point. Even if he stays, you can expect him to continue the attacks and most likely go back to his former ways and then blame you for them. As for your children, the only thing worse than being from a broken home, is being in a broken home. If he is as selfish as you say he will probably dish them off to his mother or take less visits altogether. I think you and your children could use a break from this situation. Just something to think about.


----------

