# I know it is time



## moulinyx

Hello everyone,

I have been a part of this forum since the beginning of my marriage, but I know it is time to divorce. At this point I just want to vent and stay motivated to go through with the process, so excuse the lengthy post.

Since the start of our engagement, we have struggled with intimacy, general connection, and friendship. We got pregnant four months after getting married, which was the worst 9.5 months of my life. Two weeks before giving birth he claimed "he wasn't sure how he felt about me". Its devastating and his attitude has felt this way off and on for several years. Even initiating intimacy is a fight, which makes me feel horribly unattractive and alone.

This has been the overall tone of our marriage. Extremely wishy-washy, never in my corner, and always looking out for himself. From a career perspective, he has always chosen to pursue exactly what he wants rather than looking out for the best interest of his family. For example, about 6 months ago he switched to a work shift that meant he would leave the house at 5:20pm and return at 3:30am W-Sat. This is been so hard on me especially during Covid, but every time I try to talk about how lonely I feel he completely shuts down. I begged him to hold off on pursuing this shift (he is a police officer) explaining how hard it would be on me since I work full time and already feel like I have 0 time to myself. At the beginning, he claimed our marriage would be "better than it ever was" and that he would "work so hard" to make us happy after deciding to go for it. Its great he has goals, but it sucks always being left on the back burner and never receiving what I need out of the marriage. 

I cannot handle how lonely I feel anymore. He frequently embarrasses me in front of friends and family by being verbally aggressive and resists apology afterward. He has completely lost any ability or desire to be kind towards me and treats me like the enemy. Its completely humiliating going anywhere with him and at this point I know I am only still here being of our two-year-old. 

Tonight felt like the last straw. We get into a tiny argument, which I didn't even know was an argument until he was yelling. He starts laughing at me, telling me I am a cry baby for telling him to stop yelling at me, and I leave the room. He comes to bed about 15 minutes later without saying a word, yet knowing he will be gone the next 5 days for his work. I am so drained and just want to feel loved/cared for. 

Its terrifying going through with this step and I feel like he's made me feel like I am too small to go through with it.


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## Diana7

Does he know how deeply you feel about this? His hurt you are?That you are even considering divorce? If not then he needs to know. Have you tried MC to help you communicate better?

Its hard to understand why you married him to be honest if he makes you so unhappy.


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## moulinyx

Diana7 said:


> Does he know how deeply you feel about this? His hurt you are?That you are even considering divorce? If not then he needs to know. Have you tried MC to help you communicate better?
> 
> Its hard to understand why you married him to be honest if he makes you so unhappy.


Well, we were very young when we started dating. We would have these explosive fights, struggle with intimacy, but I always justified it way. For example, he was working at a moving company in college so I justified away the irritability and lack of affection to being tired. Though in hindsight I see I was setting myself up to be unhappy, I really believed things would get “easier” or “better” once we hit certain milestones. He was really good with words in the beginning and his apologies seemed sincere. Now if we get into an argument, he goes straight to below the belt and says “I make him” say those things.

It’s just so frustrating. I understand couples fight, but I don’t think he is my biggest fan or my unconditional supporter like I envisioned for my partner in life to be.

So yes, we’ve discussed that I am unhappy and have considered divorce. About 7 months ago we had a verbal argument that turned physical. He jerked me off of the couch and slung me across the carpet and into our son’s play slide. The bruises were disgusting and I felt like two cents. He was mortified afterwards and begged to go to counseling, but then back peddled and said we would go when we could go in person. From that point on it’s been hard for me to look at him the same way (I am aware that was unacceptable).

I should have pushed for it then when I had a leg up, because now he is back to being cold, disconnected, and unwilling to discuss any sort of marital help.


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## bobert

moulinyx said:


> At this point I just want to vent and stay motivated to go through with the process


You are right to leave this man. If he was committed to self-improvement then I'd be supportive of you staying together (if that's what you wanted) but he clearly has no interest in working on himself or the marriage. So, it's no longer a safe place for you to be. It's also not a safe or healthy environment for your child to be growing up in. It will be hard I'm sure, but you're making the right decision for yourself and your son.


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## Diana7

moulinyx said:


> Well, we were very young when we started dating. We would have these explosive fights, struggle with intimacy, but I always justified it way. For example, he was working at a moving company in college so I justified away the irritability and lack of affection to being tired. Though in hindsight I see I was setting myself up to be unhappy, I really believed things would get “easier” or “better” once we hit certain milestones. He was really good with words in the beginning and his apologies seemed sincere. Now if we get into an argument, he goes straight to below the belt and says “I make him” say those things.
> 
> It’s just so frustrating. I understand couples fight, but I don’t think he is my biggest fan or my unconditional supporter like I envisioned for my partner in life to be.
> 
> So yes, we’ve discussed that I am unhappy and have considered divorce. About 7 months ago we had a verbal argument that turned physical. He jerked me off of the couch and slung me across the carpet and into our son’s play slide. The bruises were disgusting and I felt like two cents. He was mortified afterwards and begged to go to counseling, but then back peddled and said we would go when we could go in person. From that point on it’s been hard for me to look at him the same way (I am aware that was unacceptable).
> 
> I should have pushed for it then when I had a leg up, because now he is back to being cold, disconnected, and unwilling to discuss any sort of marital help.


Once its turned violent I would not stay. You son will be damaged by seeing his dad be violent towards his mum and now he has done it once he has it in him to do it again. Especially as he isnt interested in getting any help. 
I hope you have family and/or friends who can support you in leaving him.


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## Andy1001

The next time he physically assaults you call the cops. And tell him today if he ever abuses you again that you will send photographic evidence to his superiors. 
You need to leave this marriage, he’s obviously escalating and remember he carries a gun.


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## Diana7

Andy1001 said:


> The next time he physically assaults you call the cops. And tell him today if he ever abuses you again that you will send photographic evidence to his superiors.
> You need to leave this marriage, he’s obviously escalating and remember he carries a gun.


Really? Wow. No way would I live with a man who had a gun, especially if he had a temper.


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## bobert

Diana7 said:


> Really? Wow. No way would I live with a man who had a gun, especially if he had a temper.


Her husband is a cop, and American cops carry.


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## LisaDiane

As someone who is in the process of extracting herself from an almost identical situation, let me tell you what you need to do -- GET OUT. Don't talk to him about it (he doesn't care), don't offer "solutions" (he doesn't care), don't hope he's going to suddenly care about you (he's NOT) -- LEAVE.

You can have all those discussions from the emotional safety of a supportive family environment, if you decide you want to try and work things out. Right now, he values you so little, he sees the pain he's causing you and it means nothing to him, so there is NO point in talking to him at all.

My situation is slightly different in length - I was with my husband for 18 years, and I ADORED him for about 15 of those...and I spent the last 3 years wondering what happened, and being in love with my MEMORY of him, NOT the man who he became and IS now. I would never have fallen in love with a man like he is now - I wouldn't have wanted him at all!

And let me tell you what can happen the longer you stay and try to salvage an unloving marriage where you have no value at all with your spouse -- I have spent the past 3 years trying to get smaller and smaller and more invisible, to stop being ME, so that he would finally be happy with me. At first, I did it as a temporary choice, to try and find out if I WAS the problem...but now it feels like the best place to be, hidden away, unseen, SAFE. And it's going to take alot of discomfort now to break out of here and be myself again (ugh!)...DON'T let that happen to you!

It didn't work at all anyway, because just like with your husband, whatever changed him had NOTHING to do with ME. It's IN HIM. And as long as you stay with him while he behaves this way, you are going to be his target, to either blame or ignore (which is still him targeting you).

Figure out what to do about your marriage later...right now, you need to GO.
((((((((((HUGS!!))))))))))


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## LisaDiane

Diana7 said:


> Really? Wow. No way would I live with a man who had a gun, especially if he had a temper.


All a man needs to kill a woman are his hands...she's in just as much danger as if he has a gun.


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## moulinyx

bobert said:


> Her husband is a cop, and American cops carry.


This is also another reason I have not left. I am nervous about being bulldozed or bullied by his idiot "unit" buddies. Though I have no reason to think this, I think fear really takes over in this situation. I do think he would be violet again if I told him I have decided to file. The first time I told him this it ended with all of my clothes thrown onto our kitchen floor. Its such a volatile environment. 

I also get what you mean by sticking by if he is willing to put in the work...but at this point its all smoke and mirrors when he does agree to go. I think it will take him seeing his comfortable life falling apart and the embarrassment of his "perfect" marriage being exposed for what it is. He loves putting on a show for my family but is a totally different person behind closed doors. 





LisaDiane said:


> As someone who is in the process of extracting herself from an almost identical situation, let me tell you what you need to do -- GET OUT. Don't talk to him about it (he doesn't care), don't offer "solutions" (he doesn't care), don't hope he's going to suddenly care about you (he's NOT) -- LEAVE.


I am so sorry you are also going through this. It is really heartbreaking and the idea of not being married makes me really sad. I love marriage and partnership, but this is not what I thought I was signing up for. I keep telling myself maybe I just need to explain things differently, but you're completely right when you said he just doesn't care. Anyone with two eyes and a brain can see when they hurt their spouse, and you better believe I am "corrected" if I ever speak to him in the way he speaks to me.


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## Openminded

Be prepared for him to promise the world if you’ll stay. Don’t believe it.


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## DownByTheRiver

Well, he sounds awful. You should get a divorce. Also, regardless you think he can't do it, you should INSIST on 50/50 custody so you each have 3 1/2 days in which you can work more, relax more, and date. If you just relieve him of all parental duties, he will have the life of total self-absorption he apparently always wanted, and you will have no relief from the life you are living and will remain lonely and overwhelmed with no support. MAKE him take joint custody of those kids so he has no choice but to do his part with them. In the US, joint custody is the norm now anyway, but a lot of mothers' initial urge is to get the kids all the time. It's a huge mistake and will leave you broke and destitute once his 18 years of child custody payments are exhausted. Get a job, build yourself a new life (if you haven't got one already). 

If he's crap with the kids, you go back to court about it. If he becomes more unpleasant, the judge can even limit your communication to special divorced parent websites where they use that email only to communicate, and everything is kept on record if either party gets nasty and breaks rules. 

Neither of you will be able to just up and leave the area and move far apart if you share custody. Hopefully, you have some parents or friend support, maybe even a place to live that won't cost much, but either way, you need to prepare for your future by working on a career. 

Get your own attorney. Do not let him talk you into sharing his or doing mediation. The fees will come out of your pool of finances and be part of whatever settlement. You need a family law attorney. 

I hope you have some support during the transition because sounds like your child is very young. But it's his responsibility too, and he'll have to find a way, just like you have had to find a way. Good luck.


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## Diana7

bobert said:


> Her husband is a cop, and American cops carry.





bobert said:


> Her husband is a cop, and American cops carry.


Oh yes forgot he was a policeman. Do they take their guns home? In the UK the police who are armed lock them up at work.


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## Diana7

LisaDiane said:


> All a man needs to kill a woman are his hands...she's in just as much danger as if he has a gun.


Shooting someone is an easier impersonal killing. Stabbing and strangling are much more personal and harder to do.


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## bobert

Diana7 said:


> Oh yes forgot he was a policeman. Do they take their guns home? In the UK the police who are armed lock them up at work.


The two cops I know both take their guns home and carry while off-duty. One of them takes the car home so he has to stay in uniform and armed while commuting to/from work.


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## Diana7

bobert said:


> The two cops I know both take their guns home and carry while off-duty. One of them takes the car home so he has to stay in uniform and armed while commuting to/from work.


Ok thanks.


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## MovingOn19

As someone who went through something very similar (and in some ways I'm still dealing with it), trust your gut and leave. You deserve so much more and so does your child. You shouldn't have to beg a partner to be there for you, to consider your needs. They should just be doing that automatically - because they love you! That is being a partner. Your husband is no partner and clearly doesn't want to be. 

And there is nothing you could ever say that would ever justify any kind of abuse - verbal or otherwise. One time is too many and if he did it once, he is most likely going to do it again. Please please take care of yourself and make arrangements to leave as soon as you can.


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## LisaDiane

Diana7 said:


> Shooting someone is an easier impersonal killing. Stabbing and strangling are much more personal and harder to do.


Sure, out in the open, if he could get a clear shot! But he wouldn't have to - any boy older than 12 could outpace me running my fastest in about 3 strides...and in my home...any man could grab me and incapacitate me in under a minute, with his bare hands and little effort. And if you think it is harder for a man to strangle or stab an unarmed woman, I'd have to really disagree with you - I don't think it's actually difficult for them at all! 

In fact, I'd feel safer having my own gun within reach if I ever thought I could be in physical danger from any man in my home!!! (thankfully, I'm not from my husband!)


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Diana7 said:


> Really? Wow. No way would I live with a man who had a gun, especially if he had a temper.


It's not the gun. Responsible legal gun owners, myself included are as a rule some of the most level headed persons in society. Guns aren't toys, must be locked securely, etc.

Now before someone hollers and says well look at all the mass shootings it's a given there are psychos in every group no matter the type of group.


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## bobert

LisaDiane said:


> Sure, out in the open, if he could get a clear shot! But he wouldn't have to - any boy older than 12 could outpace me running my fastest in about 3 strides...and in my home...any man could grab me and incapacitate me in under a minute, with his bare hands and little effort. And if you think it is harder for a man to strangle or stab an unarmed woman, I'd have to really disagree with you - I don't think it's actually difficult for them at all!
> 
> In fact, I'd feel safer having my own gun within reach if I ever thought I could be in physical danger from any man in my home!!! (thankfully, I'm not from my husband!)


It's not that it's physically impossible for a husband to stab his wife, it's more emotionally hard (and yes, physically too). With a gun, just pull the trigger from far away and it's done, potentially in a matter of seconds. You don't have to get up close and personal, and you don't have to have the motive to inflict a lot of damage and potentially stab repeatedly until they're dead. Stabbing someone to death needs more force than pulling a trigger. It's the impersonal nature that makes guns easier to use, not that men aren't physically capable of killing with their bare hands or a knife.


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## moulinyx

The guns in the home do not bother me. My husband is a jerk, but he wouldn't ever do something *that* off the wall. Then who would raise his child while he runs around acting like a jackass? Would be a lose-lose for him. His physical moments will always be hands-on if they happen.



MovingOn19 said:


> As someone who went through something very similar (and in some ways I'm still dealing with it), trust your gut and leave. You deserve so much more and so does your child. You shouldn't have to beg a partner to be there for you, to consider your needs. They should just be doing that automatically - because they love you! That is being a partner. Your husband is no partner and clearly doesn't want to be.
> 
> And there is nothing you could ever say that would ever justify any kind of abuse - verbal or otherwise. One time is too many and if he did it once, he is most likely going to do it again. Please please take care of yourself and make arrangements to leave as soon as you can.


I hope you stay strong and go through with it! This is the hardest situation I have ever been in. How can you love someone so much who treats you so poorly? Its sad. 



DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, he sounds awful. You should get a divorce. Also, regardless you think he can't do it, you should INSIST on 50/50 custody so you each have 3 1/2 days in which you can work more, relax more, and date. If you just relieve him of all parental duties, he will have the life of total self-absorption he apparently always wanted, and you will have no relief from the life you are living and will remain lonely and overwhelmed with no support. MAKE him take joint custody of those kids so he has no choice but to do his part with them. In the US, joint custody is the norm now anyway, but a lot of mothers' initial urge is to get the kids all the time. It's a huge mistake and will leave you broke and destitute once his 18 years of child custody payments are exhausted. Get a job, build yourself a new life (if you haven't got one already).


He really is a good Dad, though his lack of patience will be an issue when he is on his own. I have no intention of keeping our son away from him, but I doubt he would even go for 50/50. He would probably try to give me full custody to add to his sob story. I agree at least having our son go with him on the weekends would be important for my own well-being. Its just sad it takes these extreme measures to get my life and happiness back. I also have a great career and would actually be better off financially if I dump the "spender".


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## bobert

moulinyx said:


> The guns in the home do not bother me. My husband is a jerk, but he wouldn't ever do something *that* off the wall. Then who would raise his child while he runs around acting like a jackass? Would be a lose-lose for him. His physical moments will always be hands-on if they happen.


Don't underestimate what an abusive person is capable of. Violence tends to escalate, even if it takes years. If he can be physically abusive to you, clearly doesn't care, and has a lack of anger management skills, anything can happen.


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## bobert

moulinyx said:


> He really is a good Dad


A good dad doesn't abusive his kids mother or hand over custody so he can create a sob story...


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## LisaDiane

bobert said:


> It's not that it's physically impossible for a husband to stab his wife, it's more emotionally hard (and yes, physically too). With a gun, just pull the trigger from far away and it's done, potentially in a matter of seconds. You don't have to get up close and personal, and you don't have to have the motive to inflict a lot of damage and potentially stab repeatedly until they're dead. Stabbing someone to death needs more force than pulling a trigger. It's the impersonal nature that makes guns easier to use, not that men aren't physically capable of killing with their bare hands or a knife.


I understand the point you are making here, but I have to tell you, I am NOT any more unsafe with a gun in the house if a man wants to do me harm. He's not going to get a tired arm from stabbing or strangling me to death in any kind of manner that would prevent him from doing it comfortably. 

And if he's willing to shoot me to death, he will have NO hesitation about killing me some other way...it might be emotionally harder (if even) to do, but I don't think that prevents a whole lot of DV killings...if there is a statistic that shows I'm wrong, I want to see it, though!


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## moulinyx

bobert said:


> A good dad doesn't abusive his kids mother or hand over custody so he can create a sob story...


Touche. I guess what I mean is he does prioritize our son and makes decisions to benefit him despite his inability to do the same when it comes to me. So I do not imagine he will be an absent or uninvolved father, which is what I define as "bad". But he is for sure a martyr and will play the "poor me, my wife couldn't handle my career" card.


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## LisaDiane

moulinyx said:


> Touche. I guess what I mean is he does prioritize our son and makes decisions to benefit him despite his inability to do the same when it comes to me. So I do not imagine he will be an absent or uninvolved father, which is what I define as "bad". But he is for sure a martyr and *will play the "poor me, my wife couldn't handle my career" card*.


GOOD. LET HIM. In fact, you might find that if you don't blame HIM personally, he might take a separation/divorce better, so you might want to think about that. Once I decided I was done, I had no reason to try to explain anything to my husband because I didn't care anymore about working anything out...and now I'm happy to take ALL the blame if it will keep him nice and compliant and moving forward without me!


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## Girl_power

Your going to be so much happier when he is out of your life. Seriously. I’m happy and excited for you!


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## DownByTheRiver

moulinyx said:


> The guns in the home do not bother me. My husband is a jerk, but he wouldn't ever do something *that* off the wall. Then who would raise his child while he runs around acting like a jackass? Would be a lose-lose for him. His physical moments will always be hands-on if they happen.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you stay strong and go through with it! This is the hardest situation I have ever been in. How can you love someone so much who treats you so poorly? Its sad.
> 
> 
> 
> He really is a good Dad, though his lack of patience will be an issue when he is on his own. I have no intention of keeping our son away from him, but I doubt he would even go for 50/50. He would probably try to give me full custody to add to his sob story. I agree at least having our son go with him on the weekends would be important for my own well-being. Its just sad it takes these extreme measures to get my life and happiness back. I also have a great career and would actually be better off financially if I dump the "spender".


It's not UP to him if he does 50/50 or not if you are in the US. That's the norm now. MOST of them don't want it. It would be the first time a lot of them ever had to lift a finger. Don't be a pushover on this. It will hold you back and there is just no reason to give into what HE wants on this. He has just as much obligation to raise them as you do. Why should HE get to do the minimum while you still carry the load? I'm very happy you already have a good job, though. Don't let sympathy for him and old habits make you just do whatever he wants to do on this. Make him do as much as you. He will just have to work it out, get childcare when in a bind, just like YOU will have to.


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## moulinyx

LisaDiane said:


> GOOD. LET HIM. In fact, you might find that if you don't blame HIM personally, he might take a separation/divorce better, so you might want to think about that. Once I decided I was done, I had no reason to try to explain anything to my husband because I didn't care anymore about working anything out...and now I'm happy to take ALL the blame if it will keep him nice and compliant and moving forward without me!


I hope I can channel that power! My husband has been texting me all day wanting to talk tonight...which makes it so hard for me not to instantly fall back into the cycle. I need to just go along with it and get my ducks in a row, but its hard. We had been trying for baby #2 up until last month and the selfish side of me wants another one simply for our son to have a sibling. I hate this situation. Obviously this is not someone I need to have more babies with, but I am so nervous I wont have another chance.



Girl_power said:


> Your going to be so much happier when he is out of your life. Seriously. I’m happy and excited for you!


Thank you! I have an appointment set for Friday to speak with an attorney. I think I will be shooting for Jan 1 filing. It seems too difficult to do this in the middle of the holidays plus a pandemic. If I can make it this long, I can play house for another month and a half?



DownByTheRiver said:


> It's not UP to him if he does 50/50 or not if you are in the US. That's the norm now. MOST of them don't want it. It would be the first time a lot of them ever had to lift a finger. Don't be a pushover on this. It will hold you back and there is just no reason to give into what HE wants on this. He has just as much obligation to raise them as you do. Why should HE get to do the minimum while you still carry the load? I'm very happy you already have a good job, though. Don't let sympathy for him and old habits make you just do whatever he wants to do on this. Make him do as much as you. He will just have to work it out, get childcare when in a bind, just like YOU will have to.


We are in the US. So he isn't able to say 50/50 isn't an option due to his work schedule? He is not home at night, so it isn't even possible for him to keep our son more than 2 nights a week. And then mr.precious would never have "a day off". I guess he missed the memo that parents do not have "days off", which is comical seeing as I am a single mom most days.

From a financial standpoint, I could keep the house and live as I do now. As it was mentioned, he is a police officer. Really doesn't add all that much to our monthly budget. And I could be saving a hell of a lot without buying ridiculous smokers and other crap every other month.


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## DownByTheRiver

moulinyx said:


> I hope I can channel that power! My husband has been texting me all day wanting to talk tonight...which makes it so hard for me not to instantly fall back into the cycle. I need to just go along with it and get my ducks in a row, but its hard. We had been trying for baby #2 up until last month and the selfish side of me wants another one simply for our son to have a sibling. I hate this situation. Obviously this is not someone I need to have more babies with, but I am so nervous I wont have another chance.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! I have an appointment set for Friday to speak with an attorney. I think I will be shooting for Jan 1 filing. It seems too difficult to do this in the middle of the holidays plus a pandemic. If I can make it this long, I can play house for another month and a half?
> 
> 
> 
> We are in the US. So he isn't able to say 50/50 isn't an option due to his work schedule? He is not home at night, so it isn't even possible for him to keep our son more than 2 nights a week. And then mr.precious would never have "a day off". I guess he missed the memo that parents do not have "days off", which is comical seeing as I am a single mom most days.
> 
> From a financial standpoint, I could keep the house and live as I do now. As it was mentioned, he is a police officer. Really doesn't add all that much to our monthly budget. And I could be saving a hell of a lot without buying ridiculous smokers and other crap every other month.


No. Those kids are half his. Joint custody is the norm. Three and a half days each parent, trading off in the middle of the week so you both have a weekend day. These days men and women work, so his work excuse is no better than yours. Just stand firm. Chances are once he's single, he's going to want those nights off so he can date women anyway. It will be his problem. Don't get into it deep with him and make it your own. If he whines to the judge about it, they'll just have an even worse opinion of him. All you have to do is say, "I am also working and will probably want to work more, so he needs to do his part because I also have to make a living." 

He'll have to pay for childcare if he won't adjust his schedule to care for them or have family support.


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## moulinyx

DownByTheRiver said:


> No. Those kids are half his. Joint custody is the norm. Three and a half days each parent, trading off in the middle of the week so you both have a weekend day. These days men and women work, so his work excuse is no better than yours. Just stand firm. Chances are once he's single, he's going to want those nights off so he can date women anyway. It will be his problem. Don't get into it deep with him and make it your own. If he whines to the judge about it, they'll just have an even worse opinion of him. All you have to do is say, "I am also working and will probably want to work more, so he needs to do his part because I also have to make a living."
> 
> He'll have to pay for childcare if he won't adjust his schedule to care for them or have family support.


Haha! I would love to watch him date. Do you get your new woman to inject your testosterone on date 2 or 3? LOL!

Good to know about 50/50 custody. I always hear of the husband getting them every other weekend and 1 weekday, so that is good to hear. Do you know if there's any way to ensure random women aren't watching our son? Or is that too in the weeds. I guess I can ask on Friday?


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## Diana7

LisaDiane said:


> Sure, out in the open, if he could get a clear shot! But he wouldn't have to - any boy older than 12 could outpace me running my fastest in about 3 strides...and in my home...any man could grab me and incapacitate me in under a minute, with his bare hands and little effort. And if you think it is harder for a man to strangle or stab an unarmed woman, I'd have to really disagree with you - I don't think it's actually difficult for them at all!
> 
> In fact, I'd feel safer having my own gun within reach if I ever thought I could be in physical danger from any man in my home!!! (thankfully, I'm not from my husband!)


I am going by what many police have said. Shooting is a far more impersonal killing and far easier than a face to face body to body killing.


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## Diana7

bobert said:


> It's not that it's physically impossible for a husband to stab his wife, it's more emotionally hard (and yes, physically too). With a gun, just pull the trigger from far away and it's done, potentially in a matter of seconds. You don't have to get up close and personal, and you don't have to have the motive to inflict a lot of damage and potentially stab repeatedly until they're dead. Stabbing someone to death needs more force than pulling a trigger. It's the impersonal nature that makes guns easier to use, not that men aren't physically capable of killing with their bare hands or a knife.


I am glad that you get what I am trying to say.


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## Girl_power

You got this girl! It’s a good time to start preparing for the leave. Detach emotionally. Reach out to friends, and try to have more of a relationship with them. Your going to need all the support you can get!


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## DownByTheRiver

As far as random women watching your son, I will say the Court's main concern is random MEN watching your son since they are who do nearly all the crimes against children. Or even not watching them but being allowed around them indiscriminately. 

Most likely, he will try to find a woman asap to be his girlfriend/nanny. I've just seen case after case of this happening. That will probably be your man's solution if he is any good with women at all. He'll find some sucker to do it for free, thinking he's serious about them. Thing is, with 50/50, you will both have free nights 3 times a week, so you agree to do the bulk of your socializing then. 

Doubt he'll want those kids all weekend since weekend is prime date nights. This way, you both get a weekend day.

The reason you hear about men getting them only weekends is because women make that mistake. Their maternal urge tells them to get the kids as much as possible, but they don't think about how that will ultimately affect their lives and make their lives harder, while giving the father little parenting duties, just enough time to "have fun" on the weekends but not be the disciplinarian. I know there are some exceptions, and more than ever these days, but still, many men would rather not be bothered with the everyday care of their own children. Too bad. They're half theirs. 

Also, some husbands have been unwilling to ably watch the children and take care of them, so the mothers are afraid they can't. But they can if they are made to and if they don't, you go back to court. They won't be able to blame it on anyone but themselves once you're out of the picture if they mess up. The may also be more willing to help if you're not telling them how to do it, working their nerves, etc.


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## moulinyx

DownByTheRiver said:


> As far as random women watching your son, I will say the Court's main concern is random MEN watching your son since they are who do nearly all the crimes against children. Or even not watching them but being allowed around them indiscriminately.
> 
> Most likely, he will try to find a woman asap to be his girlfriend/nanny. I've just seen case after case of this happening. That will probably be your man's solution if he is any good with women at all. He'll find some sucker to do it for free, thinking he's serious about them. Thing is, with 50/50, you will both have free nights 3 times a week, so you agree to do the bulk of your socializing then.
> 
> Doubt he'll want those kids all weekend since weekend is prime date nights. This way, you both get a weekend day.
> 
> The reason you hear about men getting them only weekends is because women make that mistake. Their maternal urge tells them to get the kids as much as possible, but they don't think about how that will ultimately affect their lives and make their lives harder, while giving the father little parenting duties, just enough time to "have fun" on the weekends but not be the disciplinarian. I know there are some exceptions, and more than ever these days, but still, many men would rather not be bothered with the everyday care of their own children. Too bad. They're half theirs.
> 
> Also, some husbands have been unwilling to ably watch the children and take care of them, so the mothers are afraid they can't. But they can if they are made to and if they don't, you go back to court. They won't be able to blame it on anyone but themselves once you're out of the picture if they mess up. The may also be more willing to help if you're not telling them how to do it, working their nerves, etc.


I would never be okay with some stranger spending all of this time with our son. Id like to think he wouldn't either. Moreover, I dont think he would date for a while. He has zero interest in intimacy, doesn't like the effort of dating, etc. I imagine he would bro out for 3 months and then come crawling back when he runs out of underwear. 

But thank you for the insight. I didn't even think of these questions and made sure to make notes for the meeting.


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## DownByTheRiver

Well, whether he dates or not will just be up to him. He may just get laid and not try to date. 
But you've got to get over not wanting strangers around your son. It's bad to expose them too soon, and that's something your attorneys can maybe discuss with you both there. But your kids are around strangers all the time anyway (when not in Covid) . Women aren't likely to ever hurt them. The danger is they get attached and then she's gone, of course. His peers and family will likely clue him in about all that. 

Try to get a female family law attorney.


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## moulinyx

I chickened out and didn’t go today. I felt super overwhelmed right before the appointment and cancelled.

I feel like I am making every excuse to “wait” even though I dread pulling into my driveway knowing he is home. I wish he would just be the one to pull the plug.


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## Ella-Bee

I would advise researching attachment issues and codependency. Healthy people wouldn't have much of a problem getting out of a situation like this. They would be gone yesterday. The fact that you are struggling makes me wonder if you have a fear of being alone based on something that happened in your past (many of us do). I think once you deal with that fear and learn to feel secure and confident by yourself, you will find it much easier to truly see this abuse for what it is and will do everything you can to get out. The human brain doesn't like change, even if it's beneficial in the long run. Especially if you have attachment issues. You will stay in an increasingly dangerous situation just because it's habit rather than getting out and being happy. 

You can get the home and car and holidays and trappings of 'marriage' again. You don't have to give that security up forever. Just change the people involved.


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## moulinyx

I think many people struggle with the idea of uprooting their lives especially when a child is involved. If we did not have a child involved, I’d be decorating my new home tonight.


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## Openminded

Yes, many do struggle when a child is involved. I’m one who stayed because I wanted an intact family. If I had it to do over, I wouldn’t do that. My child was well aware of the dysfunction and repeated it as an adult just as I had. I divorced far too late to stop that from happening and I’ll always regret it.


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## moulinyx

Openminded said:


> Yes, many do struggle when a child is involved. I’m one who stayed because I wanted an intact family. If I had it to do over, I wouldn’t do that. My child was well aware of the dysfunction and repeated it as an adult just as I had. I divorced far too late to stop that from happening and I’ll always regret it.


That is exactly how I feel. The idea of sharing holidays and custody in general makes me feel sick. As it stands now, my husband is rarely home so I already am accustomed to the solitary feeling.

As for being codependent....I don’t even have words for that. Impossible to have that feeling when I already feel like a single mom and cannot rely on him for anything. We just play house at this point.

Our son will yell over my husband when he is yelling and it’s the saddest thing. I know I need to just do it, but it already feels like I am drowning.


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## Openminded

moulinyx said:


> That is exactly how I feel. The idea of sharing holidays and custody in general makes me feel sick. As it stands now, my husband is rarely home so I already am accustomed to the solitary feeling.
> 
> As for being codependent....I don’t even have words for that. Impossible to have that feeling when I already feel like a single mom and cannot rely on him for anything. We just play house at this point.
> 
> Our son will yell over my husband when he is yelling and it’s the saddest thing. I know I need to just do it, but it already feels like I am drowning.


A key reason I stayed was because I couldn’t bear to share my child. I know plenty of people do and it works out but I just couldn’t. I also felt that my husband would immediately marry his girlfriend and take on her child while ignoring our own child. He was more than capable of doing that and I couldn’t bear that possibility either. 

There’s nothing easy about divorce no matter when you get out. I do wish I had gotten out then though. It would have been a very different life than the one we had. And very likely a much better one with the dysfunction gone. As it was, I watched my adult child repeat all of my mistakes. That’s a huge regret for sure.


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## moulinyx

Openminded said:


> A key reason I stayed was because I couldn’t bear to share my child. I know plenty of people do and it works out but I just couldn’t. I also felt that my husband would immediately marry his girlfriend and take on her child while ignoring our own child. He was more than capable of doing that and I couldn’t bear that possibility either.
> 
> There’s nothing easy about divorce no matter when you get out. I do wish I had gotten out then though. It would have been a very different life than the one we had. And very likely a much better one with the dysfunction gone. As it was, I watched my adult child repeat all of my mistakes. That’s a huge regret for sure.


This is where things get hard. Despite the physical altercation, I know he would not cheat on me. He is so focused on “the guys” and his job, so I’d be shocked if he even dated after we end.

I do wish he would so this decision could be made out of anger instead of the slow burn I have. I feel like I am stuck choosing between my happiness and two present parents for my son.


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## PieceOfSky

@moulinyx,

Please learn how to cover your tracks in your online activities, including posting and reading here. Skipped over many posts to interject here, but I gather your husband is an abusive violent bully and I think you should be careful planning your escape.

Any internet browser has a “in private” sort of window, where your browsing doesn't get saved in the “history”. There are also ways to remove things from your browser history.

In case it’s not been said, tell people you trust in real life what is going on.

Also, get the best help you can. These folks are free, and I suppose have seen it all. I doubt most of us, including you, have the knowledge and experience to keep you safe just yet.
1-800-799-7233 is the national abuse hotline in the US. Please call it from a safe phone line.

www.thehotline.org

p.s. - You are not small. You just feel that way. That can and will change.


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## moulinyx

PieceOfSky said:


> @moulinyx,
> 
> Please learn how to cover your tracks in your online activities, including posting and reading here. Skipped over many posts to interject here, but I gather your husband is an abusive violent bully and I think you should be careful planning your escape.
> 
> Any internet browser has a “in private” sort of window, where your browsing doesn't get saved in the “history”. There are also ways to remove things from your browser history.
> 
> In case it’s not been said, tell people you trust in real life what is going on.
> 
> Also, get the best help you can. These folks are free, and I suppose have seen it all. I doubt most of us, including you, have the knowledge and experience to keep you safe just yet.
> 1-800-799-7233 is the national abuse hotline in the US. Please call it from a safe phone line.
> 
> www.thehotline.org
> 
> p.s. - You are not small. You just feel that way. That can and will change.


Yes, I do clear my history and log out after viewing this forum if it has to do with my thread. Thank you for the tip though!

To that point, I plan on delivering my decision to divorce within a therapy session. I think I can get him to one, but I want to use the session to discuss what we need to do to dissolve our marriage.


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## PieceOfSky

If you use an “Incognito Window” in Chrome, a “Private Window” in Safari or Firefox, you don’t need to remember to clear your history for what you visited from that window or windows that popped open from it — just close the window(s).

Of course, if your someone is well-versed in IT things, there are other ways of tracking network activity.


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## moulinyx

Well, I have a few updates.

We finally agreed to do counseling and then ended up testing positive for Covid the day before Thanksigving. All effort for that went out the window since we had to hunker down and weather that storm. If anything the quarantine put a spotlight on how dysfunctional we are.

The weekend following quarantine he went out of town for a guy's trip and it was such a peaceful three days to myself. This solidified my decision to file. I have realized I am obsessed with changing myself to become "enough" for this man and its killing me. I wasn't ever someone who wanted to surgically enhance myself, and all year ive been dreaming of undergoing procedures to "fix" what is broken. I realize now that is insane and bigger boobs wont save my marriage. Same with throwing myself in a distraction hobby...that wont replace my husband's clear disinterest in my life/our life together. He is currently screaming at the TV playing 2k....I cannot wait to never hear it again.

He will not discuss divorce and I am scared of what he will do once I file. I am trying to work up the courage to start the paper work tomorrow since it takes 60 days to finalize in our state.

Any advice for staying strong? Id love a book.


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## PieceOfSky

What kind of strength are you seeking (e.g. the strength to follow through; to be decisive; to deal with the fear of him blowing up verbally, or physically?; or, something else?)

Sometimes less strength is required if you have a solid plan that takes into account various contingencies. Do you have a solid plan, worked out with experts who have walked this path before?

On the subject of deciding, perhaps this one would be of interest:



Why It Can't Work: Detaching from dysfunctional relationships to make room for true love


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## moulinyx

Well, I did exactly what I didn't want to do and agreed to counseling sessions if my husband also underwent anger management classes. This is starting next week. 

I feel so angry, confused, and am clearly unraveling. This Christmas is so weird yet I am grateful he is gone for the night.


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## Prodigal

Why are you agreeing to something you clearly don't want to do? My guess is the anger is towards yourself for caving.

If there is any hint your husband is going to get violent if you file, find a safe place to live first. Don't tell him of your plans. Move while he is out of the house. I had to do that to get away from my first husband who was a big-time abuser. Yeah, we tried the counseling route. And while I tried it for awhile, I realized sooner rather than later that it was waste of time and money.


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## moulinyx

Now I have ran into a whole new issue, which I am unsure if I am reading too far into. I know I feel a heightened sense of frustration and need to just get through the holidays, but now I have a new suspicion. I need advice whether I even bring it up to him, wait for counseling, or go back on my word to try couseling and just file. 

There have been a few situations during our marriage where I have questioned his behavior towards other women. He does not hide his phone, doesn't delete texts, etc. Any conflicts on that front ends with him yelling "look through my phone if you have an issue", blah blah blah. So that doesn't strike me as behavior of a cheater. 

But today I am randomly reading things on our neighborhood Facebook group and this woman pops up. I read her post, creeped on her profile (I creep on everyone because why not), and then went onto the next post. We have 0 mutual friends on FB. I swap over to Instagram and she pops up as someone I should follow and I see my husband listed as a follower. What the hell? She is beautiful. Is this my frustration within the marriage talking or should I be concerned that he is connecting with random women in our neighborhood? Or is this just an issue since I am already reeling?


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## moulinyx

Prodigal said:


> Why are you agreeing to something you clearly don't want to do? My guess is the anger is towards yourself for caving.
> 
> If there is any hint your husband is going to get violent if you file, find a safe place to live first. Don't tell him of your plans. Move while he is out of the house. I had to do that to get away from my first husband who was a big-time abuser. Yeah, we tried the counseling route. And while I tried it for awhile, I realized sooner rather than later that it was waste of time and money.


I dont know. Of course in a perfect world I want an intact family, but the holidays made this all complicated. I am sorry that happened to you. Though his abuse is generally verbal, I agree I would likely need to move out without him knowing. I tried to discuss the division of assets and he wouldn't even entertain it before begging to finally "put in the work".


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## Prodigal

I think the most important and primary question you need to answer is, "Why am I going along with something I don't want to do?" You say you don't know. NOW is the time for you to figure this out. To remain in a quandary about staying in a marriage you want to leave, keeps you stuck in victim status.

Trust me on this. I left a man who had an unregistered handgun in his office. I realized the possibility of him shooting me was real. I got the hell out. I spent several months making plans to exit without him knowing. I never regretted leaving. 

When you're done, you're done. Own it.


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## PieceOfSky

What kind of counseling sessions did you agree to?

Him going to anger management classes may be a useful thing. You, or you and him, going to counseling can be a useful thing.

None of it obligates you to stay forever. None of it obligates you to stay one more day. Don’t trap yourself into thinking that it does.

If I were you, I’d have the mindset that I’m going to leverage it all to plan and effect the safest, healthiest transition away from him. If it turns out positive changes occur that make you want to stay, then you can choose to do that or not when that happens.

Take a deep breath and tell yourself you future is still up to you. It always is in meaningful ways, if you’re willing to act. And there is still time.


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## moulinyx

Prodigal said:


> I think the most important and primary question you need to answer is, "Why am I going along with something I don't want to do?" You say you don't know. NOW is the time for you to figure this out. To remain in a quandary about staying in a marriage you want to leave, keeps you stuck in victim status.
> 
> Trust me on this. I left a man who had an unregistered handgun in his office. I realized the possibility of him shooting me was real. I got the hell out. I spent several months making plans to exit without him knowing. I never regretted leaving.
> 
> When you're done, you're done. Own it.


The whole situation is confusing. I want to be married, but I want to be safe and happy. So I guess my reasoning for going along with it is to show that I did everything I can and to work on a healthier relationship since I will have him in my life one way or another. I do feel pressured by the holidays as well. 

At this moment I do not feel like my life is in danger, so I certainly understand your exit is going to be different from mine. I really appreciate the perspective though. I think a few sessions is going to make things much more clear. 




PieceOfSky said:


> What kind of counseling sessions did you agree to?
> 
> Him going to anger management classes may be a useful thing. You, or you and him, going to counseling can be a useful thing.
> 
> None of it obligates you to stay forever. None of it obligates you to stay one more day. Don’t trap yourself into thinking that it does.
> 
> If I were you, I’d have the mindset that I’m going to leverage it all to plan and effect the safest, healthiest transition away from him. If it turns out positive changes occur that make you want to stay, then you can choose to do that or not when that happens.
> 
> Take a deep breath and tell yourself you future is still up to you. It always is in meaningful ways, if you’re willing to act. And there is still time.


We agreed to marital counseling and individual counseling, which is shocking. My husband will be seeing a counselor individually to work on his anger and I will be working on myself as well in individual sessions. 

So potentially this is a smarter transition? I feel calmer about it now but its still such a scary thing to be sucked back into. I feel like I already have mourned the marriage and I would hate to have to do it again if we aren't able to get to a healthier place.


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## dedad

LisaDiane said:


> As someone who is in the process of extracting herself from an almost identical situation, let me tell you what you need to do -- GET OUT. Don't talk to him about it (he doesn't care), don't offer "solutions" (he doesn't care), don't hope he's going to suddenly care about you (he's NOT) -- LEAVE.
> 
> You can have all those discussions from the emotional safety of a supportive family environment, if you decide you want to try and work things out. Right now, he values you so little, he sees the pain he's causing you and it means nothing to him, so there is NO point in talking to him at all.
> 
> My situation is slightly different in length - I was with my husband for 18 years, and I ADORED him for about 15 of those...and I spent the last 3 years wondering what happened, and being in love with my MEMORY of him, NOT the man who he became and IS now. I would never have fallen in love with a man like he is now - I wouldn't have wanted him at all!
> 
> And let me tell you what can happen the longer you stay and try to salvage an unloving marriage where you have no value at all with your spouse -- I have spent the past 3 years trying to get smaller and smaller and more invisible, to stop being ME, so that he would finally be happy with me. At first, I did it as a temporary choice, to try and find out if I WAS the problem...but now it feels like the best place to be, hidden away, unseen, SAFE. And it's going to take alot of discomfort now to break out of here and be myself again (ugh!)...DON'T let that happen to you!
> 
> It didn't work at all anyway, because just like with your husband, whatever changed him had NOTHING to do with ME. It's IN HIM. And as long as you stay with him while he behaves this way, you are going to be his target, to either blame or ignore (which is still him targeting you).
> 
> Figure out what to do about your marriage later...right now, you need to GO.
> ((((((((((HUGS!!))))))))))


 Glad to see you are on a path out to freedom. Hugs


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## LisaDiane

dedad said:


> Glad to see you are on a path out to freedom. Hugs


Thank you, but there's no need to feel bad for me...I'm hanging in there just fine!


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## aine

moulinyx said:


> Well, I did exactly what I didn't want to do and agreed to counseling sessions if my husband also underwent anger management classes. This is starting next week.
> 
> I feel so angry, confused, and am clearly unraveling. This Christmas is so weird yet I am grateful he is gone for the night.


You have your head in the sand. Listen to yourself all the way through this postings

1. Your husband is physically violent to you
2. He has no interest nor respect for you
3. He has anger management issues
4. He is never around, always away (sure sign that he may well have someone else, you are so convinced that is not possible but it is! wake up)
5. You say he is a good father, no he is absolutely NOT. He doesn't love the child's mother, is rarely around and leaves you to fend for the kid. If that is being a good father, then i don't know where your head is.
6. You are so beaten down by all of his and so co-dependent (a person can be stuck in a marriage and be co-dependent even when the partner is not around. read Melody Beattie book on this).
7. You need to pull up your big girl panties, file and get rid of this man. He is not a good husband, father either.
8. Why are you going to counselling with him. Why are you giving in? If anything you should be getting counselling for youself to see why you would stay in this marriage and allow an abusive man to continue to treat you like this.
Please proceed with filing. Tell all family friends about his abuse also, so that he cannot tell an alternative narrative, get ahead of this and stop making excuses.


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## aine

moulinyx said:


> I think many people struggle with the idea of uprooting their lives especially when a child is involved. If we did not have a child involved, I’d be decorating my new home tonight.


If you do not put yourself first in all of this, you will not be a good mother. A woman who is beaten down, mentally and emotionally, living under the threat of physical violence can never be a good mother, this is also not good for your son. get out.


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## Bigsky2020

LisaDiane said:


> As someone who is in the process of extracting herself from an almost identical situation, let me tell you what you need to do -- GET OUT. Don't talk to him about it (he doesn't care), don't offer "solutions" (he doesn't care), don't hope he's going to suddenly care about you (he's NOT) -- LEAVE.
> 
> You can have all those discussions from the emotional safety of a supportive family environment, if you decide you want to try and work things out. Right now, he values you so little, he sees the pain he's causing you and it means nothing to him, so there is NO point in talking to him at all.
> 
> My situation is slightly different in length - I was with my husband for 18 years, and I ADORED him for about 15 of those...and I spent the last 3 years wondering what happened, and being in love with my MEMORY of him, NOT the man who he became and IS now. I would never have fallen in love with a man like he is now - I wouldn't have wanted him at all!
> 
> And let me tell you what can happen the longer you stay and try to salvage an unloving marriage where you have no value at all with your spouse -- I have spent the past 3 years trying to get smaller and smaller and more invisible, to stop being ME, so that he would finally be happy with me. At first, I did it as a temporary choice, to try and find out if I WAS the problem...but now it feels like the best place to be, hidden away, unseen, SAFE. And it's going to take alot of discomfort now to break out of here and be myself again (ugh!)...DON'T let that happen to you!
> 
> It didn't work at all anyway, because just like with your husband, whatever changed him had NOTHING to do with ME. It's IN HIM. And as long as you stay with him while he behaves this way, you are going to be his target, to either blame or ignore (which is still him targeting you).
> 
> Figure out what to do about your marriage later...right now, you need to GO.
> ((((((((((HUGS!!))))))))))


I am reading your reply and seeing myself ! I too try to be quiet, invisible, smaller to avoid talking that leads to arguments or any interaction at all. I want to leave but just cant muster up the strength to start again at 61.


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## LisaDiane

Bigsky2020 said:


> I am reading your reply and seeing myself ! I too try to be quiet, invisible, smaller to avoid talking that leads to arguments or any interaction at all. I want to leave but just cant muster up the strength to start again at 61.


I know how you feel about starting over...it seems SO intimidating and possibly lonely!! But our ages make it all the more important not to waste time being unhappy!

And try to see it not as "starting over" at all, but continuing on, only in a better way - being able to be yourself, and finding people who appreciate you how YOU are! And to be honest, being lonely would be a GIFT at this point, compared to being around someone who makes me feel like I am a failure and unlovable.

You are not starting a completely new path, in a totally different direction...you are just stepping onto a parallel path, going in the same direction, only this other path has lightness and freedom and peace on it!


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## Bigsky2020

LisaDiane said:


> I know how you feel about starting over...it seems SO intimidating and possibly lonely!! But our ages make it all the more important not to waste time being unhappy
> 
> And try to see it not as "starting over" at all, but continuing on, only in a better way - being able to be yourself, and finding people who appreciate you how YOU are! And to be honest, being lonely would be a GIFT at this point, compared to being around someone who makes me feel like I am a failure and unlovable.
> 
> You are not starting a completely new path, in a totally different direction...you are just stepping onto a parallel path, going in the same direction, only this other path has lightness and freedom and peace on it!


Thank you so much for such wise and caring words! I really appreciate that you so understand where I am coming from and you truly have helped me see things in a different light such as "continuing on" instead of "starting over".


LisaDiane said:


> I know how you feel about starting over...it seems SO intimidating and possibly lonely!! But our ages make it all the more important not to waste time being unhappy!
> 
> And try to see it not as "starting over" at all, but continuing on, only in a better way - being able to be yourself, and finding people who appreciate you how YOU are! And to be honest, being lonely would be a GIFT at this point, compared to being around someone who makes me feel like I am a failure and unlovable.
> 
> (You are not starting a completely new path, in a totally different direction...you are just stepping onto a parallel path, going in the same direction, only this other path has lightness and freedom and peace on it!





LisaDiane said:


> I know how you feel about starting over...it seems SO intimidating and possibly lonely!! But our ages make it all the more important not to waste time being unhappy!
> 
> And try to see it not as "starting over" at all, but continuing on, only in a better way - being able to be yourself, and finding people who appreciate you how YOU are! And to be honest, being lonely would be a GIFT at this point, compared to being around someone who makes me feel like I am a failure and unlovable.
> 
> You are not starting a completely new path, in a totally different direction...you are just stepping onto a parallel path, going in the same direction, only this other path has lightness and freedom and peace on it!


Thank you so much for such a wise and caring response! I really appreciate how much you understand where I am coming from. Your words are truly helping me see things in a better light. What really stuck with me is when you said to think of it as "continuing on" (my journey) as opposed to "starting over" which always seems overwhelming. Thank you !🤗❤


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