# Separated, and losing the battle.



## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

So here goes a long story for everyone to read. And before I get going if anyone does reply, understand I do not need the "be a man" speech, or everyone to feel sorry for me. Really what I need is advice, or other perspectives. 

Here we go, 


~Jan 5th 2014

My wife and I have been married for just shy of nine years, we’ve been together for a little over ten. I am in the military and while we were dating I asked her to move with me to Italy, she did and we got married and had a wonderful son. We later moved back to California (job took us there) and we had a separation. It was really both of our faults, we just were not there for each other, more so on me as the move for me wasn’t easy and put a LOT of stress on me which affected the home life. She went back to S. Cali and lived with her mom and our son, we had some rough patches during the separation but eventually (7-8 months later) she called me and said she wanted to work things out, which we did. That was 2008, fast forward to know, 2014. We now have two kids, a boy and girl. We are pretty much separated once again, but this time it is my almost entirely fault (granted lack of communication on her part). Over the years I had become emotionally abusive to her, now I don’t mean constant yelling and name calling, but there was some times when I made her feel bad because she can’t find a job, usually difficult for military spouses overseas) I also usually messed up on holidays, didn’t do squat for her birthdays/anniversaries or mother’s day. Something in me snapped after she finally told me she was Unhappy with our marriage back in November 2013. I knew that I had to change, for her AND for me, for our marriage to work; problem is was I did not know how to change, and it took a few weeks to happen but I started to make the right moves, I made plans for V-day, and our 9th Year Anniversary, as her birthday she told me she wanted a divorce. 
I have worked to better myself greatly, and made quite a bit of progress; probably to the point a normal spouse might give me a second chance. Problem is part of what I have changed I cant prove to her because she wont let me (dating, being a gentleman that sorta thing). She needs to build her trust back up for me but how am I supposed to do that when I have nothing to offer? She has all but said she wants me to stop trying and fighting to save our marriage.

Over the past few months I have tried to stay separate but friends (she wants as friends) but I can’t do this, every time we start to interact it turns into me saying something stupid and it pushing her away. Almost like I’m walking on egg shells holding a double edged sword. I want to move out but we would probably go broke, also she is now pretty much set on divorce. I'm not ashamed to say I have on several nights cried myself to sleep and even turned to praying to help me find the strength to either let her go or to continue trying. 


I have and will never hit her, it has all been verbal/emotional, I have to leave in hopes of giving her the time she needs/wants to hopefully want to work things out with me. Is it possible to live under the same roof and be “separated?” I’m currently kind of staying a friend’s house but that is kind of awkward and want to come home, and maybe have HER move out like she said she could.

I have tried the 180 rule a few times, but it never works out as she has called me a few times asking me to help with the kids, or one time she called me to get mad about something and then we just hung up. Its been almost 4 months now and I am still failing at giving her her time, I want to work things out so bad I find myself talking about it before I realize what I’m doing. I miss my kids, and I miss my wife.


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## Thjor (Feb 18, 2014)

Have you tried counselling? For you or both together?


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

I've tried going to a Chaplin for some of my anger issues, and I think it has worked for the most part (not perfect and I have to constantly work at it). She has finally agreed to try counseling, but she has told me all she see's at the end of the road is divorce, how can I expect her to go and have an open mind when she's hard set on the conclusion already?


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## Thjor (Feb 18, 2014)

Try to do the 180 as much as possible. I know with having kids you cannot have no contact. Keep working on yourself. See a counsellor for yourself and if she is willing to go a marriage counsellor. 

The 180 is will help you become stronger individually. Don't beg or plead with her. Do not contact her unless it has to do with the kids, financially etc. Give her and yourself the space and time to figure this out. It will not be easy and you will have set backs but keep trying.


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

Over the last few months I have tried to place myself in her shoes, meaning taking on as many of the responsibilities for which she has been doing for so many years. She’s in that rut of always doing the same thing over and over, as a stay at home mom she is set in a routine. I have tried my best to “feel” the pain that goes with those duties and not having much/any time to yourself. 
I have for the most part stopped being so negative towards her, in fact I’ve actually been much more supportive of her when she’s been sick, went on a recent juice diet for a week, I was there every step of the way to support her. Basically I have not been the husband she has known for the past 9 years, she even said herself after I gave her a gift for finishing the diet that it was unexpected and “just not me.” Something that kind of made me smile as maybe she’s seeing the better side of what I am doing hoping its making a difference, but she turns around and tells me that I don’t have to do any of these things for her, although I am not going to stop, it does kind of get old. 

Really I think I am hopping I can more direction on what I should be doing, I don’t know if I’m doing anything right, wrong if I should continue or stop altogether and call it quits. I’m not going to lie when I say I can keep this up, it is starting to drain me to the point of actual depression, not just the kind you get when the first mention of divorce. I actually feel down, I have no motivation to go to the gym, run or now even take care of the house, aside from the fact I have “moved out” I don’t think its my responsibility anymore, but then I don’t want my kids to live in a dirty house.

Sorry this is winded and all over the place, just have A LOT on my mind.:soapbox:


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Yes you are bouncing around and its kind of hard to follow. Back in November when you got the unhappy speech what did she actually say? I can understand part of what you say is emotional abuse but forgetting a birthday or not getting a great gift for Christmas doesn’t fall under that at least to me. You also mention anger issues?

You have worked on improving yourself and you need to continue that. Has she validated any of the changes? How has she helped to improve the situation in the marriage? It took two of you to get to this point and its gonna take two to repair but only one to end in divorce. How have her actions been towards you, just cold and distant? Has she filed for divorce? She said she could move out, yet you say if you moved out you would go broke? Where would she go? 

Both living together yet separate must be stressful and long term I don’t think it works, some have done is successfully. You need to start 180 and be vigilant about doing it. You need to give yourself some distance so you can start to think rationally instead of emotionally. Your not going to fix anything in a day and you need to quit trying to, it just creates more tension. You say some of the things you are doing is getting old and its making you depressed, what are you doing? Maybe she can see that and doesn’t believe the changes will last.


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

You are overseas currently? Being expats plays a real number on marriage. There is a lot of identity issues that come into play for the spouse when they can't work and are asked to give up so much for the working partner. Add the culture shock into it...and yes, even in the UK, and you can have a volatile combination.


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

*This kinda long, sorry*

Fenix, being overseas is not a prob for us, when we got married, we spent 4 years in Italy, we actually perfer overseas than stateside, so this is not an issue, though lack of work DOES have some effect

Honcho, yeah sorry for the bouncing around, have quite a bit on my mind…let me draw out a timeline lol

Oct – Got a new job (I’m military so its different) that allows me A LOT of off time for family where previous job had me working 15ish hours a day Mon-Fri, hardly home with fam, hardly saw kid’s soccer or football games, tired on the weekends so we rarely went out, or they left me at home.

Nov – Wife says not happy, same time I coincidentally figure it out and begin steps on my end to “fix” some of her routine stuff from being a stay at home mom, doing the dishes, cleaning the house, taking the kids to/from school that kind of stuff

Dec – Nothing, although kind of sad Christmas, wasn’t much in the mood due to the situation from prev month

Jan – first week she says she wants divorce after I got mad about her 31st bday tattoo (I wasn’t mad at the tat, in fact I even picked out the font, I got mad because she didn’t let me go with her and I wanted to be there for it

Feb - month to myself to reflect on what in the past led us to this situation, giving myself most of the blame due to my “abusive” behavior, and by abusive I mean not showing appreciation for the things she always did, sometimes getting mad over little things at home which were only brought on from things from work. I was mostly verbal/emotional hard on my wife.

March – Still separated but under same roof, living on the couch on weekdays, and usually hotels/friends weekends or several days during the week. This actually pissed her off which is funny, she tells me she needs her time alone from me to think about us and how I have changed for the better and if she can continue but gets mad because I leave her with the kids by herself by going to a hotel during the week sometimes…I work a midnight type shift so it would actually be impossible to take the kids, I do however take them to school everyday and usually pick them up. Another thing I have changed was better supporting her with her activities, during this month she did a juice diet for a week, anyone who's gone through this understands, no food, or anything except for the 12 juices a day you get for a week straight. Its tough, but I told her she was strong to do it, even some of her friends quit after the first and second day. My wife made it all the way through, what made it worse is this week her period hit so it was living hell lol. When she drank her final juice I gave her a flower and a wrapped gift tell her I believed in her, yes it silly but something that melted her heart. Something she never expects from me, nor have I ever really done.

Apr – I came home from living with friends/hotels and told her that I was giving up on pursuing her (kind of doing the 180) and that we cant be friends like she wants (it was leading me in a emotional direction of constant pursing her and asking her to take me back). I also told her I was not going to try anymore, I will be here, she wont get anything from me and as little interaction as possible. Next day she said she would like to go to MC.

Over the course of our separation from first week of Jan, I have gone way out of my way to try and show her I have changed, she has kind of acknowledged seeing it but not really. I think she has realized (just a few days ago) that if she tells me the truth, I’m happier, normally she would say stuff like “I didn’t want you to get mad/hurt or sound mean”, I’m a truth guy, don’t find kind excuses to not have us do something, she’s going to a small concert down in London next week and staying the night in a hotel to wonder the market square the next morning, told her we can go as a fam as I want to go back to London as well, after a few min of her beating around the bush she finally told me she wants the day to herself to think of us, and not worry about the kids…she seemed surprised when I told her I was fine with that and wanted THAT as an answer instead of the cheap “don’t want to hurt you” excuses she was giving me.


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

So we start Marriage Counseling tomorrow, well maybe; have to find a sitter on short notice for the kids. It seems the school has a teach meeting day and there is no school...******! I'm not sure what all to expect from the counseling and have way too much to say. I know it can be a drawn out process but I just have so much I need to let out. I'm not even planning on this working now, I almost feel over the past few weeks that my heart for my wife has all but collapsed and I do not know if it can be mended. I dont even know what my response would be if she asked me right now to give US another chance, if I said yes, there is alot of things which we would have to talk about, things which would require a counselor anyway, or at the least a mediator, to help guide us on the process of recovery. 

If I may ask, what are some other peoples experience with marriage counseling?


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

Focus on yourself. You might lose her. Do the MC, but exercise, be a good dad, do a good job at work, enjoy hobbies you may have shelved, but don't ask her about status.

Once you're focused on you, you'll find the truth of what you want.

Based on what you've written, she is intentionally drawing away from you (i.e. tattoo) either because she is excited about her life without you or to antagonize you (probably the former).

When she went to London, how sure are you she was alone? Women will often not leave until they have a job or man to provide for their next stage as a free woman. This is a fantasy due to the fog (men leave single mothers after the initial sex-rush is over), but it still causes WaWs to end marriages and families. Infidelity is not my area of expertise, but your London story smells fishy.

I did MC with my X2 (for all of three sessions), but she was so far out the door, she lied about where she was at to both me and our therapist. By the time things get to counseling, it's often too late, buuuuut, keep going. It may lay the groundwork for fixing things, it may give you some valuable insight on why she wants out and you can use that to improve who you are and who you look to be in a relationship after she's gone. That she wanted to go MC the day after you got serious about NC is a good sign. 

It sounds like you got focused on work and let go some of the things that women appreciate, like being treated well on their bdays and V-day. That happens, but try and fix that for the next girl in your life.

On the other hand, she's a SAHM and you work and you're doing housework to make things easier for her? What's hard for her now? It sounds like you're trying to nice her into staying. Have you read No More Mr. Nice Guy? If not, get it. I'm in favor of men helping out around the house (I've changed a lot of diapers and washed a lot of laundry), but if that's her primary job, then that's her primary job.

Giving her crap about not working was not fair, unless she said she was going to do that and sat on the couch and made not moves to do it. Don't persecute her for not having a job if that wasn't part of the plan or, as you say, it's difficult to get a job overseas for her.

Focus on you. Focus on your kids. She doesn't sound too far gone, but she brought up the D word, so she can take it off the table. Do MC, be serious about it. As an above poster said, it takes two to make a marriage, but only one to end it.

Do the 180 for you. You might lose her and you need to get detached from her and ready to be a bachelor again. You are responsible for being happy, you have too much pinned on her right now. I know, I went through this same crap last year. It sucks, but then life sucks and changes and is wonderful, etc. You can be happy and an inspiration to your kids by focusing on you.

A woman is not the destination of your journey. She can come along with, but your journey is your own.


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

So I've recently (as of this week) discovered my wife might be seeing someone new...again. She quickly saw and slept with someone shortly after we initally separated, and he dumped her within a month. I never actually "gave permission" for her to date nor sleep with anyone. She did ask me if she would be allowed to date to see what else is out there, and I had told her no, but I cant stop her. She just has to think about what she is doing and how it will effect me and our marriage should we R. After what we went through when she dated someone a few months ago, she is now chatting with another guy. I wanted to know for sure so I broke into her computer and discovered a **** ton of nude photos she's taking over the past several months, and a few nude ones of this new guy he sent her just the other day. She also sent a picture of the kid (11 years younger than her) to her mom via facebook. 

We've been in MC for about a month now, 2 good sessions, and 2 bad ones. I was told to basicly stop trying so hard and give her the time she needs to open back up to me, I dont know what he said to her as he had to seperate us for a bit. I am all about given up, I cant take anymore her secrecy and deciet. She hides her phone and ipod from me when I walk in (to which she also has password protected), about two weeks ago I walked into the bedroom, and somehow she didnt see nor hear me and when I walked past she was startled and quickly covered her ipod of which I saw I think a nude picture of some guy, and she just laughed it off as nothing, when I asked if she was trading nude photos, she said no; I think I'd be less mad that she is sending pictures but more mad that she never did that for me (I'm military and often in the past was gone and asked her for proficitive photots, and never got any as she said she's really insecure about her body). The counslor keeps telling me to give her the benfit of the doubt (he doesnt know about any of this, and I think I might bring it up tomorrow at our next session). The only way I can give her the benfit of the doubt is to see her stuff, although I am pretty sure I know what I'll find. One of photos I saw of this new kid was a picture of his smaller than mine penis, with the caption "I cant wait to use this tomorrow" (today). 

I dont know how to bring any of this up, at first during our separation I tried to believe her but now I'm just tired of this ****. I still dont want a divorce but I'm tired of the games shes playing. When I tell her this she says she's not playing gamse, she's too old for it (31 in my eyes is not too old), upon which she usually tells me to just think what i'm going to think; doesnt try to defend herself at all, which to me is another sign things are wrong. If you have to quickly hide something, nor defend yourself when asked the questions, to me thats guilty. I just dont know what to do anymore and I have to put an end to this.


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## EasyBakeOven (Apr 26, 2014)

Easiest way to get a woman back ... (and who would want to after that)
Agree your marriage sucks. Put her on ignore list. Date other woman. Mine went through several guys but was supper jealous when i was with other woman. She is not the center of the universe.


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

Well, as some may or may not know, I'm in the military, and now about to move off base. Basicly if a member gets a divorce they can no longer reside in base housing however, that is not the case...yet. I wanted to move off base to a little closer to the kid's school. And earn a little bit more money, living on base is nice, but any bills you have...you end up living pay check to pay check just like everyone else. Living off base allows me to put away a couple extra bucks. 

At first I asked the wife to not move in with me as I wanted time to be away from her, her lack of "I just dont know" is causing my rage issues to return. I cant handle when people dont say everything they mean and leave out important stuff. During counsiling she explained an event we had years ago, she left out an important detail which whould have positivly changed our vacation. I told her when she leaves stuff like that out it makes me rage, but she doesnt understand/care. 

I have found four different houses big enough for me and the kids when I have them...she has found a small two bedroom apt, but has no way to support herself nor the kids, pay rent, and buy grogeries. She wants this time alone also. I'm almost at the point of not caring how she fares out and not sure what I will do if/when she cant get a job and has needs help. I'm not sure if I will cave and take her in, or if the time apart is all she needs to miss me as others have told me.....I'm tring to do things on my own and plan for the kids, but to be honest, I'm just totally lost, dont know what to do and just going about this blindly not caring what happends.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Your best bet is to file for divorce and just concentrate on co-parenting. Your wife has no desire for you and it is unlikely to return. You are tormenting yourself.

You need to separate so that she cannot eat cake.

By the time reality hits her you will have built a new life.


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

Thats pretty much whats happening, yeah sure give me crap for wanting to fix my marriage (everyone has bad experiences and I dont mind the negitive feedback), but today at MC she got caught in a slip. Since we both decided to live apart for a while and see where things go (I do and dont care what she does on her own ya know?) she has pretty much stated she wants me to not help her, she wants to try on her own and if she fails...she fails without my help, short of something effecting the kids. Well today she told the MC'ler I pretty much just want her to fail, then at the end of the topic she states she just wants to try and make it on her own and if she fails, she fails....I lost it, and finally the MC'ler saw what I've been going through, and understands.

I'm done. I miss my wife, I love her, but now this **** can be someone elses problem. Now I just have to figure out what to do with my kids, keeping in mind I'm military, overseas, not as easy as most people think.


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