# So now I know for sure



## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

I have posted on this site off and on since early spring. I won't re-hash everything but I have suspected my wife of 20 years was cheating on me. I have to admit I never tried very hard to prove it because I just wanted to be wrong. Beginning of Oct. I get a card in the mail warning me that my wife was going to file for divorce. I got some things in order and confronted her and she was relieved that I knew. So we started the disolution process. The whole time she has denied there was any one else, she was just un happy with our marriage and with me. She agreed to move out and leave me with the kids (Thank god). She has been in and out the last two weeks moving things to her parents house, she claimed.

Last evening my wife's best friend called and said she wanted to speak with me. We met at the local park and she asked if I wanted to know where my wife was. I told her I suspected I knew she was with someone. So here came the shocker, she is hooked up with her best friends boyfriend! What scum! Her friend showed me the text her boyfriend sent breaking up with her and saying they never ment to hurt any one but they have fallen in love and want to be married as soon as they are able. This friend then told me I needed to get checked by a doctor because my wife has been sleeping around for over a year with several men! 

I saw my wife today when we got together to sign some papers and I feel I hate her cheating guts! I can hardly look at her. When I just thought she was cheating I was able to maintain my composure for the sake of the kids. Now that I have seen proof I don't want to ever have to speak to her again. But since we have kids I know that isn't an option.

How will I get to a point where I can be civil to her? How can I handle her showing up a my sons game with her lover? Is it really possible to not feel hate ever time I see her. I have always been a very level headed person but I just don't ever see myself ever forgiving her for this, and why the hell should I !!


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

you don't HAVE TO forgive her, but i think it'd be better for your own mental health if you could determine WHY she decided to cheaply violate the most sacred of vows. i think there are damned few valid reasons for adultery, but wouldn't you just like to know? if you WERE somehow to blame, you could find a way to deal with that and it may make you a better person. and if she soiled herself by taking another man only for selfish carnal pleasure (fires of hell are what i'm picturing) then you would just know that she is a self-destructive hussy who doesn't care who she hurts as long as her loins are satisfied.

how's THAT for level-headed?

does this "best friend" of hers have any ulterior motives to ratting out your wife?


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

You know I walked in on my first wife with one of my friends. I was hurt for some time, by just seeing her. But she is a good mother and takes good care of my son when he goes to see her. The fact she is a good mother is all that matters now really, but beyond that I am in a better relationship and a better place. I can be civil to her and since she had been a good friend befoire we hooked up I can easily be good friends with ger now. It did take time. Just my 2 cents.

draconis


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

I think the reason my wife's friend ratted her out was for selfish reasons. I think she is in emotional pain because she was betrayed by two people she loved and trusted and she just wanted someone to share her misery with and try to cause pain for the people that hurt her. She told me so many people wanted to tell me what was going on (but didn't). 

As far as being friends with my wife it just isn't going to happen. She has become the type of person I would not care to associate with. She has never been a bad mother but she was always a very distracted mother (always involved in doing her own thing). She is the most selfish person you can imagine, and she even admits that she just doesn't worry about other peoples feelings.

The reason she cheated is because she has no integrity or morals. She is a piece of human ****. She likes to party, I don't drink at all. I made my wife and kids the main focus of my life, she never accepted the role of wife and mother. She has always felt that she had to be out (anywhere but home) or she might be missing a good time. She has always lived for the moment, I like to have a plan and stick to it. She claims I don't give her the attention she needs, yet for years her friends and family have told me I do to much for her (yes even her mom and dad). Our whole marriage has been about me doing and giving more why she gives and does less. I do the shopping, cooking, cleaning, yard work. I make sure the kids are taking care of their responsibilites, I coached their sports thru the years, I attend all their school events. 

The last year has been pretty much a sexless marriage, and I admit that has been because of me. But in my own defense who wants to get in line for sloppy seconds with their own wife?

Cooper


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Cooper,

Sorry your situation has ended this way. I certainly know how painful all of this can be. Like you, I could sense my spouse was having an affair. However, I chose to put the blinders on because of love.

It's going to take time to heal. I'll share a quote I ran across several months ago. "Forgive all who have offended you, not for them, but for yourself." Due to all of the damage (both emotional & moetary) caused my my husband's unfaithfulness and partying, I became a very angry and bitter person. It has taken many hours of counseling for me to realize the true meaning in the quotation. Hope you can find it in you to put the past in the past and look towards a bright future with your children. I know it isn't easy.

Good luck!


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

Either way you will likely deal with her or things dealing with her for the rest of your life.

draconis


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

So this morning I get a call from one of my wife's other friends inviting me to breakfast. Three of my wife's best friends were there. All of them have washed their hands of her. The problem I have is they have waited to now because of what she did to their mutual friend, not what she did to me. I did learn more things that I am sorry to know. According to these friends this idfidelity has been going on for several years with lots of men. One gal said my wife told her she just likes to have lots of sex. She didn't even try and hide these affairs. She goes away for three day weekends for horse rides and she has gone as far as bringing men with her.(her horse trailer has living quarters with a big bed). 

How is it possible to have sex with different men and then go home to your husband and kids? How could she initiate sex with me or lay her head on my chest as we go to sleep after being with someone else ? 

I asked these friends why no one every reached out to me. Lots of excuses and were sorry's. They thought she was having a mid life crisis and it would pass, they were afraid of what I would do, they thought they could get her to see the destruction she was causing and make her see straight. Now they "are in my corner", way to little to late.

The gal that lost the love of her life to my wife also called today and wanted to get together. I really don't want to learn more details so I put her off and said I would call her in a couple days. She is another one that could have called me when all this started, now that she lost her man she want's me to counsel her. 

Is it better to keep talking about this or just bury the pain and try and move on ? I know what has happened is not my fault. There was nothing in our marriage that could justify her actions. She is the loser , not me. Yet at this time she walks out of our marriage with $219,000 in assetts and cash, plus spousal support, into a new life with a new love. She is as happy as can be and I'm as hurt and beat as an old dog can get, not to mention poor for the forseeable future.

You folks every here that country song, I breath in, I breath out, I put one foot in front of the other. Thats where I'm at.

Thanks for the electronic shoulder,
Cooper


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Hi Cooper,

Sorry to hear all you are going through. At this point, I would only meet up with her 'ex' friends if you feel it will help you. If it will just add more pain, just tell them that you appreciate the offer but aren't ready to talk about that at this point. The more you describe your wife's behavior the more she seems somewhat narcissistic to me...

Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms may include: 


Believing that you're better than others 
Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness 
Exaggerating your achievements or talents 
Expecting constant praise and admiration 
Believing that you're special 
Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings 
Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans 
Taking advantage of others 
Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior 
Being jealous of others 
Believing that others are jealous of you 
Trouble keeping healthy relationships 
Setting unrealistic goals 
Being easily hurt and rejected 
Having a fragile self-esteem 
Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional

I guess the bottom line at this point is that since you will be in contact because of your kids, take the initiative and let her know you think it's inappropriate for either of you to bring a 'friend' of the opposite sex to the kids' events for the first 6 months (or whatever)...to be honest, this is probably enough for your kids to handle right now anyway.

Keep taking the high road and take care of yourself. You've been dealt some shocking news the last few days/weeks so give yourself time to absorb it all but I honestly think in time you will feel a sense of peace that you aren't in the middle of all of the drama and uncertainty you've dealt with for a long time.

Hang in there, Cooper.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

As for her assets from the marriage...talk to a lawyer and get her friends to tell their tale. She may not end up with what you're thinking. 

Not only is she cheating, but deliberately doing so multiple times. And risking her family's health (mental and physical) in so doing! 

I'm so sorry you have to go through this and damn, it scares the living hell out of me at what she doing and risking!


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Cooper here, thank you all for your words of support. 

To Swedish, 
She has many of the traits you listed. I just can't understand how a person can be so selfish as to inflict so much damage on so many people that have loved her(and she claimed to have loved). How can she live with herself? She is walking away from a good husband, two great kids, close friends and even some of her own family for the thrill of sex. I will never understand how that level of betrayal is possible.

To Dcrim,
I have sat down with two attorney's and both say infifelity will not be a factor in the settlement. To me this seems very unfair. Infidelity doesn't happen accidently like a car wreck, it takes two people making a decision to have sex. She is getting rewarded for cheating on our marriage, and I will be financially burdened for being faithful. What a screwed up system.

Cooper


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Today I spoke with my wife for about 20 minutes. It ended up in an argument which I'm sorry about. She denies having multible affairs. She claims to have only been with this one guy and nothing ever happened until we decided for sure to get a divorce. She did admit to being involved with him for the past year but claims it was never physical until now. (It didn't matter that it was her friends boy friend) She made me feel like it's all my fault. She refuses to understand how she hurt me emotionally. She couldn't understand how her being on the phone with him for hours at a time made it so I didn't want to hold her. How her being gone for hours and my catching her lying made me not want to hold her. How posing for half nude pictures for a calendar and still after five years giving them away to men she meets makes me not want to hold her. I havn't showed her enough affection in a long time so she had to find it somewhere else is exactly what she said. 

I know nothing I ever did can justify what she has done, so why do I feel guilty? Why can I feel so much anger toward her until I see her, and then want to hold her. I thought I was ready for the end of our marriage, but it is much harder than I expected.

Cooper


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

in her mind: one affair instead of several makes her that much better, it wasn't physical until now justifies her involvement, handing out half nude pics like some las vegas call girl makes her feel good about herself...

i'm sorry. this is the woman you love. and that's what kills me. if she only knew how few of these ****s she runs across that will give her the time of day want a woman who conducts herself in such a manner...oh well...rude awakening coming her way...she didn't just land on fantasy island. she's gonna take her problems with her wherever she goes.

now, you, go take care of yourself and the people that care about you. because they're there.

God will bless you, my friend. chase the hatred from your heart, okay?


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

I hope some day to be able to chase the hate from my heart, and I hate to admit it but also the love. What I need to do right now is chase the thoughts from my brain. I have a very active brain and I have thought about this ten thousand different ways in the last week. I just can't get it out of my head. I'm at a big disadvantage because I don't drink, smoke or take drugs, so no mind numbing available! 

She sent me a long e-mail today out lining how I havn't showed her the love and affection she needed. Yes she admitts to e-mailing and texting men but just as friends and I should have trusted her. Yes she liked to go away and party at her horse rides but I should have supported her more. And no she didn't begin seeing anyone until we decided to divorce. So let me get this straight. One day I tell her I know she's talking to an attorney and planning a divorce, so she calls one of her male friends (who happens to be her good friends boyfriend) and says " My husband and I are getting a divorce so lets you and I be in love and start having sex". Sure I can see how that could happen. Yea, I trust her to tell me the truth. Not! 

We could spend the rest of our lives playing he said/she said but whats the point. She has no moral compass and you just can't reason with someone like that. I know, I have spent 20 years trying. I am not even going to respond to her e-mail, why keep introducing more pain day after day.

Thanks for the comfort,
Cooper


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Cooper said:


> She sent me a long e-mail today out lining how I havn't showed her the love and affection she needed. Yes she admitts to e-mailing and texting men but just as friends and I should have trusted her. Yes she liked to go away and party at her horse rides but I should have supported her more. And no she didn't begin seeing anyone until we decided to divorce. So let me get this straight. One day I tell her I know she's talking to an attorney and planning a divorce, so she calls one of her male friends (who happens to be her good friends boyfriend) and says " My husband and I are getting a divorce so lets you and I be in love and start having sex". Sure I can see how that could happen. Yea, I trust her to tell me the truth. Not!
> 
> We could spend the rest of our lives playing he said/she said but whats the point. She has no moral compass and you just can't reason with someone like that. I know, I have spent 20 years trying. I am not even going to respond to her e-mail, why keep introducing more pain day after day.


you sound as though your mind is made up, probably for the right reasons. but what about this email she sent you? is she telling you what the blueprint looks like for reconciliation. i mean if you started doing these things? does that change the landscape?


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

There is no going back. I have not trusted her for the last few years. Her friends (now ex friends) have been calling me and telling me more details then I want to know. Her latest actions speak the truth of her character. All these years her friends have been telling me how great she was and how lucky I was to be married to her. I kept thinking there was something wrong with me. She is a beautiful, smart, and super fun person. So why wasn't I happy. Because to me she was nasty and selfish. Now others see her true colors. 

No, I don't want to go back. But having the proff of her infidelity put in front of me and having people that have been her friends for years telling me she has cheated on me for years with many men has just crushed me. I am an old fashioned man with true values and integrity. She is a tramp with no morals and no consideration for anyone but herself. How did we stay together so long? Because I just kept letting it go . Love is truley blind. 

Cooper


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Cooper-

At the risk of making you even more upset, I do have a question for you... please tell me to get lost etc. what was your sex life like with her over the past few years?


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Mark Twain I don't mind you asking. Our sex life has been up and down. We have gone thru periods of sex once a month and periods of sex four or five times a week. Sex pretty much always depended on me. She was always more than willing and always got into it but very rarely did she initiate it. She even said our sex life was good. At the beginning of this year we were in one of our lots of sex cycles. Then in March I caught her in a huge lie. So because of hostility on both are parts sex went to every few weeks. Then in mid summer I injured my knee while biking. I called her and asked her to come pick me up and she said she was just getting ready to have lunch with Barb so I should call a neighbor. Just so you know she was about 5 miles away, and I don't think I ever reached out for help like that to her before. I says I'm in trouble here and I need your help, She says,"well I already parked the truck" . Twenty minutes later the neighbor comes and picks me up because my wife called her. So to end that story I think we have had sex twice since then. Nice thoughtful wife huh. And yes she really was with her friend Barb because I checked.

And yes I have gone to the doctor to get checked for disease. No results yet.

You know in my conversations with her and in her latest e-mail she keeps repeating the phrase that she's not a bad person and she never tries to hurt anyone because that's just not the way she is. And she's correct. The problem is and has been for a long time that she doesn't try and NOT hurt people. She just doesn't concern herself with others feelings. And if you get stepped on as she goes by Oh well. 


Cooper


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Cooper said:


> You know in my conversations with her and in her latest e-mail she keeps repeating the phrase that she's not a bad person and she never tries to hurt anyone because that's just not the way she is. And she's correct. The problem is and has been for a long time that she doesn't try and NOT hurt people. She just doesn't concern herself with others feelings. And if you get stepped on as she goes by Oh well.


ever heard of "the big lie?" tell it enough time, loud enough, someones gonna believe it. sounds like she convinced of her own hype.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

I was told by one of her friends that my wife was going to move her horses to her boy friends place. My son and I had some running around this evening and when we got back my wifes car is in the drive way. The truck and horse trailer are gone so I go to the barn and check and her main horse is gone. Right now it's 10:30 at night and she still isn't back to get her car. My guess is she is going to spend the night with him and leave her car in the drive way all night and come get it in the morning. This is what I mean by her not caring if she hurts me. How does she think this makes me feel, how can she be so cruel as to just rub my face in this. I can't even take a bat to the car because it's still in my name and on my insurance. What a heartless piece of **** she is!!

Cooper


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

she's putting on a show buddy, parading it around in your face. for the life of me i don't understand how one human can treat another human so poorly. is the car stick shift or automatic???


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

So I couldn't help myself this morning and called her cell phone , when she answered I thanked her for leaving the car at my house all night and rubbing my face in the fact that she was spending the night at her boy friends. I hung up before she could reply. She called back but I didn't answer so she left a message. Just more lies. She said it was late by the time she got her horse settled in at the new barn and she didn't want to wake me so she took the truck and trailer to her folks house (where she is suppose to be staying). First her folks have a steep twisty drive and the truck and horse trailer would never fit. Second my daughter was suppose to go over there this morning to go clothes shopping with my wife. She called my daughter and told her not to come because she would come over here and get her. Thrid when I got home from running some errends the truck and trailer are back and my wife's dog is in the house(she had the dog with her last night). There is nor reason for her to bring the dog here except she hadn't been back to her folks house yet.

Of course I'm just "imagining things like always and thinking whatever I want to think" , part of her message. 

Again I want her out of my life, I want to end my marriage to her, I want to not have to see or speak to her any more. But we have kids so I know it may never be a complete break. 

Why can't I let go of this emotional pain ? If I want it finished why does it bother me what she does ? If I can get it to the point where I don't see her every other day I believe I can get past it. Friday afternoon at work I actually found myself laughing at some stuff and not thinking about all this. Then I have to see her car in the drive all night and it's like starting the whole process over. Absolute emotional torture ! 

Cooper


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Cooper said:


> So I couldn't help myself this morning and called her cell phone , when she answered I thanked her for leaving the car at my house all night and rubbing my face in the fact that she was spending the night at her boy friends. I hung up before she could reply. She called back but I didn't answer so she left a message. Just more lies. She said it was late by the time she got her horse settled in at the new barn and she didn't want to wake me so she took the truck and trailer to her folks house (where she is suppose to be staying). First her folks have a steep twisty drive and the truck and horse trailer would never fit. Second my daughter was suppose to go over there this morning to go clothes shopping with my wife. She called my daughter and told her not to come because she would come over here and get her. Thrid when I got home from running some errends the truck and trailer are back and my wife's dog is in the house(she had the dog with her last night). There is nor reason for her to bring the dog here except she hadn't been back to her folks house yet.
> 
> Of course I'm just "imagining things like always and thinking whatever I want to think" , part of her message.
> 
> ...


her explanation makes sense. the problem is there is someone else that she is with. and that is the filter that you run her explanation through.

your last paragraph is proof to me that she in accomplishing her goal. she knows how much it's hurting you. and she does it anyway. either she has no concious or you did something somewhere along the way that justifies this behavior. i vote that she has no concious.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Well first off I have to admit that my actions this morning were immature. I am a very level headed person and I just kind of got overwhelmed with grief and wanted her to feel some pain as well. I am embarrassed that I sank to that level. I hope it will never happen again. 

I know you folks dodn't know me and there is always two sides to every story. I have been very truthful in all I have written here. So I must say this , there has never been anything in our marriage that could justify her sleeping around. This is a character flaw in her morals. We never had big, loud fights. Never any abuse, no drug use. I don't drink but she does, but she is not an alcoholic. I will admit that her drinking did cause some problems over the years but I always realized that I'm more critical about drinking than most (bad childhood) and tried to tolerate it. Her whole issue is I wasn't affectionate enough in the last few years and thats what she needed. And she is telling the truth, I wasn't. But it took a long time and a lot of resentment for me to get to that point. I didn't want to be angry or hurt every day but thats the way things have been for awhile. I cook dinner, I clean the house, I do the shopping, I earn the income that pays all the bills and I take care of paying the bills. Honest to god most days I have no idea what she did but it wasn't anything around here. 

I could go on forever but what's the point. Many people including her parents and sister have asked me why I did so much for her, why did I allow her to be gone so often, why did I work so hard at helping her with her horses. What can I say, I was in love. I took joy in making her life easier and better. 
And she took joy in other men.

Cooper


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Today I met with my wife to have her sign all the papers in the dissolution packet. For the most part it was very business like but at the end she started tearing up. She then made the comment that she wished things had not ended up this way but the last few years have been hard on her emotionally and she had to go find what was missing. I didn't bother making any comments, no sense fighting anymore. But again it reminded me of how different we are. I got married for life. I expected to have bad days, or even some bad years. When you look at the big picture of a lifetime commitment, a couple of bad years out of what could have been a fifty year marriage isn't such a big deal. I would have tried to work thru almost anything. But all the lies and the cheating with different men is more than I can bare. Not that she even wanted to try and work it out, she just gave up.

Cooper


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You are a real TAM vet. How is your life today? Did your wife find stability or happiness? Does she still ride?

Do your children ever talk about the pain they felt when your wife dropped out of your lives?

Do you feel that she was not really well, i.e., suffered from some personality disorder?

How do her parents view things today? You had good relations with them.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Back in 2008 I would have told OP to beat the crap out of OM, make sure he has jail money for smokes. snacks and mags....so his mom doesn't have to pay for the crap he will need in jail.....

But now that's it.s *2015*...I'd tell the PSOB to get a good lawyer and take her to the cleaners.


Did anyone watch the last "Walking Dead' episode, this Sunday?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

@ LW, what were you thinking?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Things are a little slow around CWI (thank God)....but do we really need to go back to 2008?


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## Nawlins (Feb 25, 2015)

Cooper,
I realize your attorneys have stated infidelity would not matter in the divorce settlement, but the evil side if me says you should have the friends testify in court anyway. Make her face her lies through her friends words.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

the guy said:


> @ LW, what were you thinking?


I read a couple of Cooper's old threads a long time ago. I noticed that he posted recently on TAM. I thought it would be interesting to hear from him. He is quite a philosophic guy (of the stoic type). His long term perspective might help others.

As to CWI, sometimes there are threads that one can't help but wonder about. Feels like trollsRus at times.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

If your smart, you'll quit walking around in the fog and see her for what she is. A lying, cheating, poor excuse of a woman and pleas stop feeling sorry for her when she tears up.

If you have the kids then be the better parent. Your problem is that a long time ago you never put the cards on the table and told her to stop thinking of her own selfish ass and think about the family once on a while. She watched you do it all and you never called her out for it and she just used you for a door mat. 

When it comes to the kids, you might have to work with her on that but no one says you have to maintain a friendship. By the way, is she supporting the kids? Their her kids too and if you have them then she has a obligation by law to support them so don't let her slide on that.


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