# Need help! Extremely jealous and angry wife.



## mozart

When me and my wife first began dating it was a long distance relationship as I was in the military and over 8 hours away. We talked on the phone almost every night that we could. I got to see her when I came home but we spent much more time away than in person. We dated for two years until I was no longer serving and then we got married. I remember having quite a few conversations where she explained her fear of me being unfaithful. I simple reassured her that I loved her and would do nothing to hurt her. Now we have been married for little more than a year and almost from day one she has shown great jealousy and acted depressed. I feel like I am walking on eggshells around her. It has been a constant fight and now I am at the breaking point. I love her with all my heart and would do anything to prevent from separating. I have tried explaining to her that she has nothing to worry about but it just doesn't seem to work. When we run together if another woman passes us she accuses me of checking her out. I practically stare at the ground to try and prevent this but somehow she still accuses me. If I rent a movie and there would be a nude scene she accuses me of wanting to watch it, regardless of rather I have seen it before or not. I have never been unfaithful to her so i can not understand why should not trust me. While we were dating she discovered by going through my email that I was looking at porn.I first lied and simple told her it was spam cause I was embarrassed. I later confessed and explained to her that it was only because I was so far away and we was not married. I feel like I did nothing wrong and was not being unfaithful. Our relationship almost ended then except I promised never to look at it again and I have kept my word. This is one of her favorite things to bring up cause I first lied about it. I spend plenty of time with her as I am not very social with people. I do try to be friendly when I talk to someone and if that person happens to be a female then its her accusing me of flirting. She even does it when I am talking to her own family. I have asked others if it appears that I am flirting with anyone and no one else thinks so. Other than being extremely jealous she is often angry or depressed. I make jokes with her and just show how much I love her but somehow I say or do something wrong and then its an argument. I simple do not know what I am doing wrong. I have tried many times to talk to her and she blames me saying I flirt to much and don't know the right things to say to her. It is gotten to the point I don't want to get near her anymore which has only made things worse. When she does calm down then we are so happy together but those times are few and far between. Is this normal in a new marriage and if not how I can help her to relax, trust me and just be happy.


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## Reuben

Mozart, it is not normal. Jealousy is so hard to deal with. Your wife may need some professional counseling. 

If you are faithful to her then stand your ground. Don't give in to her demands. You have assured her that you love her. Now you need to be the strong one in the relationship. Don't keep trying to apologize because you have done nothing wrong. 

You don't need to shout at her. Just keep a strong, firm voice and be the there for her. 

I know she seems very unhappy, but it isn't you that is causing it.

She will need to face the fact that it is her insecurity that is causing the problem. She may of had a bad experience in a previous relationship, or even problems from her childhood and teen years that is causing the insecurity and lack of self confidence.


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## greenpearl

Reuben said:


> Mozart, it is not normal. Jealousy is so hard to deal with. Your wife may need some professional counseling.
> 
> If you are faithful to her then stand your ground. Don't give in to her demands. You have assured her that you love her. Now you need to be the strong one in the relationship. Don't keep trying to apologize because you have done nothing wrong.
> 
> You don't need to shout at her. Just keep a strong, firm voice and be the there for her.
> 
> I know she seems very unhappy, but it isn't you that is causing it.
> 
> She will need to face the fact that it is her insecurity that is causing the problem. She may of had a bad experience in a previous relationship, or even problems from her childhood and teen years that is causing the insecurity and lack of self confidence.


Reuben,

Very good advice. 

Mozart, 

Don't apologize if you haven't done anything wrong. 

Let her know that YOU ARE THE MAN. 

But you can tell her that she has insecurity issues she has to work on. ( I guess she will take it as a big shot and become angry. you will be able to tell she is a smart woman or not. A smart wife will listen to her husband's advice and examine herself. A silly wife will take it as a shot and become hysterical.)

If she doesn't learn and grow up, if she doesn't learn to solve her insecurity problem, she is making her husband's life like a hell, she is going to lose what she has. 

Buddhism has a lot of teaching about dealing with insecurities. Reading these books everyday can help us a lot! 

A lot of people let their personalities run their life, little do they that they themselves are causing their misery!


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## Sanity

What do you get when irrational emotions collide with infallible logic? A miserable marriage.

Jealousy is a cancer in marriage, but like all untreated cancers can and will lead to the death of the marriage.

Brother I feel for you. I've been living with a jealous STBXW for years and we have a two year old. We have gone to marriage counseling, retreats, vacations and for a brief moment these helped only to have the green jealous monster come back to feed again. 

I've been accused of cheating countless times including with her sister(who was dating my brother at the time).

Jealousy is an insidious destroyer of relationships/marriages and will turn your love into hate. Unfortunately from your post you are well on your way. Let me give you my own personal timeline:

Year 1: We become a couple, develop feelings for each other and have amazing sex. She is definitely my type so I discount a few red flags. 

Year 2: Our relantionship has matured a bit and we start to take vacations together and she basically lives with me. She starts to exhibit jealous tendancies even going to far as to start arguments because I spend too much time with my brother (1 hour at gym) or when my mom comes to visit from out of town. Again I just deal with it because I love her and make up sex is amazing.

Year 3: Her sister and my brother are having relantionship problems and her sister asked me for advice. I recommended that she talk to my brother and work it out since its none of my business. My then GF finds our that I briefly talked to her and starts getting real jealous to the point that if her sister is within 20 feet from me she gives me the dreaded "Evil Eyes". She is also jealous of me posting on facebook or playing online games because according to her may lead to cheating. During this year her sister and my brother break up because she was banging some other guy. She marries OM shortly thereafter since she got knocked up. 

Year 4: Our son is born. we marry and her jealousy turns into anger. Her constant mood swings and abusive behavior have turned our frequent and pleasureable sex life into a chore. She starts using sex as a carrot for me which starts to breed resentment in me. 

Year 5: She continues to be abusive but now she keeps complaining about her life and how she wishes she never had a kid with me. The most vile, repulsive languange comes out of her mouth at least once a week. I no longer love her and move out after an altercation where she jumped on my back because I refused to explain every minute detail of my whearabouts that day. I'm an adult and I should not have to tell my wife every single stop I make during the day ie car wash, coffee, Lowes, etc. 

Current Day: My STBXW still wants to reconcile but even though we share a child I have no desire to live with her. Her insecurities, jealousy and rage have destroyed our friendship, love and marriage. She has made so many promises to me just to break them a week later. Heck i'm getting knots in my stomach just thinking about it right now. 

I'm not telling you to leave her but please do not have children with her until this is resolved because IT WILL complicate things and you will have to deal with for a long time. Kids DO NOT FIX a bad marriage. They are a blessing but it will push your bad marriage over the edge. 

Jealousy and insecure people are living in their own nightmare and their only temporary relief is you. Unfortunately you start to lose yourself and question your own mental sanity. It took me years to figure this out and claw my way out. Last night she called me and said that I sounded great and "refreshed" on the phone. My first thought is that she wanted to "feed" on me again. No more.

Ultimately she has the problem and she has to get help. Establish boundries and if the problems continue establish an exit plan. Get help from friends and family and do not be afrain to ask questions. Do not feel ashamed of letting yourself be treated like a doormat. I honestly loved my wife and as good men all we want is to love our women, protect them and give them our lives if need be. Some people take advantage of this. 

Good luck brother. May you find peace in your marriage that I never found.


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## mozart

Thank you for your great advice. It is sad for me to say though I have stood my ground many times with it only making her more angry. I have told her that her lack of trust in me as well as other things are adding much unneeded stress. If she did not quit this then our marriage could not last. Though at first she did seem to stop it was only a band aid as she now simple ignores these threats. When I try to talk to her about our situation it becomes an argument to which she pushes the blame onto me. I understand that I am not perfect in our marriage but I would never be unfaithful. She seems if she truly believes that I do these acts like flirting or even checking women out. I tell her she has nothing to worry about and her reply is "I understand you have a need to see other women." How can she simple not listen to me? I am a firm believer that the root of this comes from her insecurity. Its rare a time when she is getting ready that she does not bring herself literally to tears. I try to comfort her and remind her how beautiful she is but it is to no success. Me and my wife run at least thirty minutes a day and there's never been a time in her life when she was over weight.

I understand there is simple no magical fix to this. The only solution is to continue to stand my ground and reassure her of my commitment and love for her. It is just hard as I am so very tired of the arguments and fear that I may be losing interest in keeping this battle up.


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## mozart

Thank you Sanity for taking the time to reply. It is very good to see I am not alone in experiencing this. Reading what you have went through sounds identical to my own situation. It is unfortunate you was unable to help your marriage. However it takes two and sounds like she wasn't very willing to change. I hope my wife learns to relax and understand what she is doing is destroying the happiness in our relationship. In marriage I believe we are always growing, rather it be together or apart. I just wonder how much patients I have to last and how long should I even try. When can I know that she will not change.


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## Sanity

mozart said:


> Thank you for your great advice. It is sad for me to say though I have stood my ground many times with it only making her more angry. I have told her that her lack of trust in me as well as other things are adding much unneeded stress. If she did not quit this then our marriage could not last. Though at first she did seem to stop it was only a band aid as she now simple ignores these threats. When I try to talk to her about our situation it becomes an argument to which she pushes the blame onto me. I understand that I am not perfect in our marriage but I would never be unfaithful. She seems if she truly believes that I do these acts like flirting or even checking women out. I tell her she has nothing to worry about and her reply is "I understand you have a need to see other women." How can she simple not listen to me? I am a firm believer that the root of this comes from her insecurity. Its rare a time when she is getting ready that she does not bring herself literally to tears. I try to comfort her and remind her how beautiful she is but it is to no success. Me and my wife run at least thirty minutes a day and there's never been a time in her life when she was over weight.
> 
> I understand there is simple no magical fix to this. The only solution is to continue to stand my ground and reassure her of my commitment and love for her. It is just hard as I am so very tired of the arguments and fear that I may be losing interest in keeping this battle up.


Looks like she uses emotional reasoning where what she feels must be true regardless of evidence to the contrary.

The only solution is NOT to continue to stand your ground and reassure her. This only further reinforces her emotional reasoning at your expense. I'm not saying you stop telling her you love her everyday but you should have have to tell her "I love you" 1000 times every day. Tomorrow you will have to say "I love you" 1100 times. 

The only solution IF you want peace in your marriage is to set boundaries and discuss marriage counseling options with your wife. If she does not follow through then it may be time to end it. I wish you both luck and hope it works out. I do not want to see another couple divorce but I hate seeing good men and women piss their life away on people who do not value them. 

Let me ask you a few questions that may help you decide:

1. Are you getting headaches more often?
2. Do you have heart palpitations or your stomach churns when you get phones call from her?
3. Are you afraid of being "yourself" around her?
4. Do you find yourself quickly changing the channel if an attractive woman comes on the TV or nudity?
5. Have you stopped spending time with friends or family?
6. Have you deep down looked at other happy couples and wished that for yourself?


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## Sanity

mozart said:


> Thank you Sanity for taking the time to reply. It is very good to see I am not alone in experiencing this. Reading what you have went through sounds identical to my own situation. It is unfortunate you was unable to help your marriage. However it takes two and sounds like she wasn't very willing to change. I hope my wife learns to relax and understand what she is doing is destroying the happiness in our relationship. In marriage I believe we are always growing, rather it be together or apart. I just wonder how much patients I have to last and how long should I even try. When can I know that she will not change.


Anytime brother. I WANT you guys to work it out but yes both have to row this boat or you are just going in circles. I just hope my experience helps somebody. 

Many women think that men are just walking erections but the fact is alot of men want to love their wives and get some loving back. We also want to live in peace with our wifes most of the time.


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## Uptown

Mozart, welcome to the TAM forum. I'm sorry to hear about the discord in your marriage. The behavior you are describing -- inappropriate anger, extreme jealousy, depression, anxiety, and inability to trust -- are classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). I'm not suggesting that your W has full-blown BPD -- only a professional can determine whether her BPD traits are so severe as to meet the diagnostic criteria. Instead, I am suggesting your W may have mild to strong BPD traits. Even when the traits fall well short of the diagnostic criteria, they can make your marriage miserable. 

It is easy to spot strong occurrences of these traits -- i.e., the red flags -- in a woman you've been in a LTR with for three years. There is nothing subtle about traits such as jealousy, verbal abuse, controlling behavior, and constant blaming. I therefore will discuss a few of the traits. If this discussion rings a bell, you may want to read more about them so you know the warning signs. I therefore provide links to resources at the end.


mozart said:


> I remember having quite a few conversations where she explained her fear of me being unfaithful. I simple reassured her that I loved her and would do nothing to hurt her. Now we have been married for little more than a year and almost from day one she has shown great jealousy...


BPDers (i.e., those with strong BPD traits) are extremely jealous because they have a great fear of abandonment. During the honeymoon period, this fear is suspended because the BPDer is infatuated with you, making her feel like you are the perfect man. Normally, the abandonment fear would rear its ugly head within 6 months because that typically is the longest infatuation will last when you are seeing each other frequently. Yet, because you had a LDR, the infatuation may have lasted throughout the first year.

In any event, the fear apparently returned early in the second year because you observe that she was already expressing fear of your being unfaithful. If your W is a BPDer, there is absolute nothing you can do to reduce that irrational abandonment fear. A BPDer has carried that fear inside her since age 3 or 4 (when it was created). You can keep reassuring her but the fear is like a bottomless pit of need.


> I feel like I am walking on eggshells around her.


That's why the best selling BPD book (targeted to spouses like you) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells_. A BPDer carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. Because the anger is already there and is just below the surface, you do not have to do anything "to make her angry." She is already angry. Hence, to release that anger, all you have to do is say or do something that triggers her abandonment fear. And you never know just what phrase, expression, or action will be the trigger. 

With my exW, for example, my looking at another woman for one-half second, instead of one-third second, would do it. Another trigger would be my walking on the sidewalk one or two steps ahead of her, which she interpreted to mean I did not want to be seen with her. And, of course, to test my love, she would often slow down to increase our spacing so she could see how quickly I would slow down. With a jealous woman, you are setting yourself up for a lifetime of frequent testing of that ridiculous nature.


> [Since day one of the marriage] she acted depressed.... she is often angry or depressed.


As I noted above, all BPDers carry enormous anger inside from childhood. They also suffer from depression and anxiety. Because they have very low self esteem and hate themselves, they typically are unhappy. And, because they feel entitled to things (just as a child feels entitled), they fully expect the H to make them happy. Of course, that is an impossible task. So, as the years of the marriage go by, a BPDer grows increasingly resentful of her H's inability to make her happy or fix her. At the same time, she grows increasingly fearful of abandonment as she sees her body age. This is why the BPDer typically ends the marriage -- after about 12-15 years -- by walking out. My exW left me at 15 years.


> It has been a constant fight and now I am at the breaking point. I love her with all my heart and would do anything to prevent from separating.


If your W has strong BPD traits, there is absolutely nothing you can do to help her. Even a roomful of psychologists cannot help her unless she wants to work hard on changing herself. Sadly, it is rare for a BPDer to be sufficiently self aware and to have the ego strength to be willing to do that.


> If another woman passes us she accuses me of checking her out. I practically stare at the ground to try and prevent this but somehow she still accuses me.


You are being a doormat, as I was for 15 years. But it is a lot kinder to say you are "walking on eggshells." That's why the best selling BPD book was not called "Stop Being a Doormat." Anyway, you've now spent about two years not being yourself. To be acceptable to your W, you've done a thousand small things (e.g., looking at the ground, avoiding movies with nude scenes) to avoid triggering her temper tantrums. If you keep this up for another two years, you won't even remember the "old Mozart" -- the man you used to be. The bottom line, Mozart, is that a BPDer is extremely controlling of her loved ones to prevent abandonment. So you are being controlled and bullied.


> I have never been unfaithful to her so i can not understand why should not trust me.


A BPDer is incapable of trusting you. Her ability to trust was destroyed (or failed to develop) by the time she was four years old.


> While we were dating she discovered by going through my email that I was looking at porn.I first lied and simple told her it was spam cause I was embarrassed.


Nearly every partner of a BPDer will lie at some point to avoid her throwing a temper tantrum over nothing. Of course, this is the worst thing you can do to a woman unable to trust. But there you will be -- half way through a $5,000 vacation where the hotel is $250/night -- and you know the vacation will be totally gutted if you are fool enough to admit having glanced at a passing woman. So you will lie. If you choose to live with a jealous woman, this will be your life: occasional lies, no adult-rated movies, and lots of looking at the ground.


> [My looking at porn] is one of her favorite things to bring up cause I first lied about it.


If she is a BPDer, you are going to hear about it nearly every time she throws a hissy fit or temper tantrum. Because a BPDer is unable to regulate her emotions, she experiences such intense feelings that she is convinced they MUST be true. For a BPDer, feelings constitute facts. Hence, to justify her intense feeling of being rejected and abandoned by you, she will reach as far into the past as necessary to justify her current feeling (what else can she point to?). This is why a BPDer never forgets any mistake you've made, particularly a LIE. 

It may give you some small comfort to know that it doesn't really matter much that she can point to that lie. In the 15 years I was with my exW, I never lied to her once. She nonetheless was so convinced -- about twice a month -- that I was lying that she would create the most convoluted, preposterous argument out of thin air. My point, then, is that the absence of your lie likely would not have slowed your W's jealousy down by much, if anything at all.


> She even does it when I am talking to her own family.


It is a lot easier for a BPDer to control you if she isolates you from all family members and friends -- usually claiming that they don't treat her well as an excuse for not visiting them. The last thing she wants is for you to get support from someone saying "That's the most ridiculous excuse I've ever heard in my life."


> I make jokes with her and just show how much I love her but somehow I say or do something wrong and then its an argument.


With a BPDer, every joke -- no matter how well received -- is a time bomb that may go off when you repeat that same joke. My exW, for example, once observed that she could tell a joke to her two BPDer sisters 9 times and they would laugh out loud. On the tenth time, she said, they might get so angry that they would not speak to her for a month. And, of course, my exW was the same way. With a BPDer, you never know what joke or comment is going to set her off because she is emotionally unstable.


> I simply do not know what I am doing wrong. I have tried many times to talk to her and she blames me saying I flirt to much and don't know the right things to say to her.


If your W has strong BPD traits, it doesn't matter what you are doing -- you will be blamed for every misfortune and for all of her own mistakes. Because she has self loathing and a weak sense of who she is, she likely is unwilling to tolerate the deep shame of acknowledging a mistake or a flaw. The last thing a BPDer wants to see is one more item to add to the long list of things she hates about herself. This is why a BPDer always thinks of herself as "a victim." She refuses to take responsibility for the consequences of her own actions. And, to maintain that illusion, she needs "a perpetrator" (i.e., YOU) around all the time to blame all misfortunes on.


> When she does calm down then we are so happy together but those times are few and far between.


Because a BPDer's emotional development was frozen at about age four, she never learned how to do "self soothing" very well to calm herself down. Hence, if you are married to a BPDer, your other role -- in addition to being "the perpetrator" -- is to be the "soothing object." That is why you spend such enormous energy and time trying to sooth your W. The irony is that, by being a constant trigger of her abandonment fear, you likely are agitating her much more than you are calming her. You also are a trigger for her other great fear: engulfment, which I discuss at the link shown below.

Mozart, if this discussion of BPD traits sounds familiar, you may want to read more about them. If so, I suggest you check out my discussion of BPDer behavior in GTRR's thread. My four posts there start at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/anxiet...depressed-its-always-my-fault.html#post188319. The second and third posts provide links to excellent articles written by professionals. If you have questions, Mozart, I would be glad to try to answer them or point you to a resource that does. Take care.


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## greenpearl

UPtown,

A very detailed post. 

It helped me understand BPD a lot. 

Actually a lot about my past! 

I was a jealous woman, and very insecure. Caused by my upbringing and childhood. 

I hated myself for a lot of things. 

After I met my wonderful husband, he pointed out that I had a lot of issues I had to work on. I also realized that my unhappiness had nothing to do with my husband, he is a wonderful man. 

That's why I sink into religion, first Christianity, then Buddhism, now I just read whatever I can find about how to live a happy life. 

It is possible for a person to change, but this person has to realize she has to change. After I started changing myself, I had one after another personality problems that I had to change. It is very humiliating sometimes, but the result is very rewarding. 

I don't know how to help Mozart's wife. Just wish she is humble enough to realize what she is facing.


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## Sanity

Uptown,

Sorry to threadjack but I wanted to ask you something quick. My STBXW called me last night and told me over the phone that I sounded "good" and refreshed. She almost sounded dissappointed in her tone. What do you think ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mozart

Uptown that was a very large post and very insightful. Thanks for the welcome. I do not know if my wife has BPD but much of what you have said rings true in my situation. Just today we have had three separate arguments. First being of me flirting with her sister, second being of me no longer interested in her sexually, and the third of me not regretting looking at porn while we was dating.
I told her on so many occasions when she brings it up I have no interest in her sister. 
I also explained or at least tried, that I am very attracted to her but it is hard for me at this moment to connect with her on that level. 
As for the third argument she again brought up me looking at porn. I cracked and admitted I did not regret looking at it as we were only dating at the time. This sent her into a frenzy in which she told me she hated me and I was a terrible husband. At that point I got my keys and left. However here I am again back in the house. I do admit I would have stayed the night at my parents except I did not want to leave her here alone. 

Everyone's post has been truly helpful and if anyone else has more advice I am all ears. I admit I am still confused, I am beyond the breaking point but if there is still hope I want to hold on. I fear though that I will have gone many years fighting only to finally realize it was inevitably going to end. I also fear that maybe I too am partially to blame. Maybe I don't show her enough love or am doing something wrong. Am I a jerk for thinking it was okay to look at porn while we was dating?


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## Uptown

Sanity said:


> My STBXW called me last night and told me over the phone that I sounded "good" and refreshed. She almost sounded dissappointed in her tone. What do you think?


Sanity, I have gone through your threads and can see that you have learned a lot about your W's strong BPD traits. I applaud your effort to learn about these traits. Yet, this question you pose -- where you are trying to tease meaning from her words and tone -- indicates you still do not appreciate the full implications of a woman being emotionally unstable. This also seems evident in your 3/17 statement:


> My wife knows she causes harm because hours later she will apologize for her destructive behavior.


Your W's apology at one point in time does NOT prove she was aware of causing harm earlier. Maybe she did but you cannot know that based solely on the apology. BPDers do splitting, wherein they will flip in 10 seconds from adoring you to hating you. This occurs because they are so intolerant of ambiguities and gray areas that they categorize everyone (including themselves) as "all good" or "all bad." 

Hence, regardless of whether your W was splitting you white or black, she probably sincerely believed that distorted perception at the time she was doing it. When she is splitting you black, for example, she is able to believe you are evil because she projects all sorts of evil qualities onto you. Projection is a wonderful (albeit, primitive and childish) defense mechanism. It works so well because it works subconsciously, fooling her conscious mind into believing the projection -- at least for a few hours.

Granted, BPDers generally will tell lies when cornered, so she may have been lying to you at some point also. My point, then, is that her ability to see clearly enough to apologize at one point does not imply she was lying earlier. She may well have been sincere earlier (with her perception being distorted by her intense feelings). Or she could have been lying earlier.

As to your trying to tease meaning out of her recent words and tone, I just don't see how that effort is productive. A woman as unstable as your W appears to be does not know for sure herself how she feels about you because those feelings likely are changing daily, if not hour by hour. Hence, even if you could accurately discern what she is feeling or intending to say _at the moment_, all of that probably will be gone with the next intense feeling sweeping through her mind. IME, you cannot build up a lasting store of good will -- or a lasting sense of appreciation -- in a BPDer. There will be nothing like that on which you can later draw during the hard times. Like a sand castle beside the sea, the good will and appreciation will be gone with the next tide. This is why, with BPDers, it's always "What have you done for me lately?"


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## Sanity

Wow uptown I wish we could sit down with you for a beer. Your statement "What have you done for me lately" rings so true. Thanks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown

mozart said:


> I told her on so many occasions when she brings it up I have no interest in her sister. I also explained or at least tried, that I am very attracted to her but it is hard for me at this moment to connect with her on that level.


Mozart, you cannot discuss a sensitive issue in a rational way with anyone having strong BPD traits. Even if you wait until she is absolutely calm, raising the issue will trigger her enormous rage -- which is always there just under the surface. This means you have maybe 6 to 10 seconds of "calm" before she is angry. As soon as her feelings are intense, she does splitting, i.e., she splits off the logical, adult part of her mind and turns full control over to her intuitive inner child. 

You've heard the expression, "Talk to the hand"? Well, this is a case of "Talk to the child." This is why, if your W has strong BPD traits, marriage counseling likely will be a total waste until your W learns how to manage her emotions well enough for you to be able to communicate with the adult part of her mind on emotional issues (i.e., on everything of any importance). This also is why one of the first things they teach BPDers in a treatment program is how to intellectually challenge intense feelings -- instead of simply accepting them as being facts and truth.


> As for the third argument she again brought up me looking at porn. I cracked and admitted I did not regret looking at it as we were only dating at the time. This sent her into a frenzy in which she told me she hated me and I was a terrible husband.


This is a textbook example of all-or-nothing thinking, which is a hallmark of BPDers. Whereas a normal W would think you are "an essentially good H who nonetheless sometimes looked at porn while dating," your W immediately classified you as "all bad." This black-white view of people is why your W likely has no long term close friends because, unless they live a long distance away, she drives people away by re-categorizing them and treating them badly.


> I do admit I would have stayed the night at my parents except I did not want to leave her here alone.


Your W must be allowed to suffer the logical consequences of her own bad actions. That is her only real chance of confronting her issues and learning to manage them. As long as you enable her to continue acting like a spoiled and controlling young child, she will continue throwing temper tantrums and hissy fits. From what you've told us today, it seems to me that she is back to bullying and controlling you again. And, by going back home "to help her," you are actually harming her by preventing her from learning how to grow up.


> Maybe I don't show her enough love or am doing something wrong.


If she has strong BPD traits, it is impossible to show her enough love.


> Am I a jerk for thinking it was okay to look at porn while we was dating?


If you were not so confused from being controlled and bullied by her temper tantrums, you would not be asking that question. Of course it was okay.


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## TeaLeaves4

I'm not so sure it's mental illness, OP. She probably has huge issues stemming from childhood. She needs some cognitive therapy to help redirect her thinking patterns so that she can stop these thoughts that plague her from constantly spiralling out of control.

Look up this book: Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy, by David Burns.


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## Boker

One thing I would suggest is, for your part, don't argue with her. I wonder if her accusing you is just her way of forcing you to reaffirm your love for her. Maybe she wants/needs to hear those things, and so she provokes an argument because she's guaranteed you'll say the things she wants to hear. You should work these kinds of comments into your daily life as you go about your daily routine. Touch her, kiss her, smile at her, tease her, flirt with her, etc. on a regular basis, but withhold it during arguments. Don't give in to her on this matter during an argument.

When she does get angry, you need to be calm--extremely calm. There may be times when you need to momentarily raise your voice much louder than hers just to let her know what you're capable of, then calm down right away and make her choose how she wants to deal with you, as a calm reasonable person or as a loud angry one. Actually make her choose and refuse to continue the discussion until she gives you an answer. Deny her any control in an argument. So long as you continue to respond to her accusations and defend yourself, she's in control. Deny her any control. Very calmly tell her she already knows the answer to that from the last argument (and the one before that, and the one before that) so she doesn't need to keep bringing it up again. Tell her how much you like the calm version of her and that you don't know what to say to her when she's angry. Try to turn the argument, which she started and is in control of, into a discussion where you are leading. Don't make any accusations toward her, but ask probing questions about why she feels that way. That will help to take the control away from her and put you in control. But above all, stay calm.

Also, never walk out on an argument. Too many men make this mistake. I don't want to criticize, but I just want to state this bluntly: The moment you walk out, you are no longer a man in her eyes. As a man, you need to stay and (calmly) face the dragon head on. Never waver.

EDIT: One thing I should clarify: don't deny her the words "I love you" during an argument. It's better to say it at other times during the day, but it's okay to tell her that during the argument. Just deny her all the other responses and defenses you've already made in the past.


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## Uptown

greenpearl said:


> UPtown,...It helped me understand BPD a lot. Actually a lot about my past! ... After I started changing myself, I had one after another personality problems that I had to change. It is very humiliating sometimes, but the result is very rewarding.


Greenpearl, thanks for the kind words. I am glad to hear you found the BPD information helpful. Please keep in mind that having BPD traits does not mean you "have full blown BPD." All of us occasionally exhibit all nine BPD traits because they arise from primitive defense mechanisms that we all used to survive childhood. At a low level, these traits continue to have survival value even in adulthood. The all-or-nothing (i.e., black-white) thinking, for example, is something you continue to do every time you get startled. Hence, when you are in a crosswalk and suddenly look up to see a truck bearing down on you, your brain is only capable of black-white thinking, i.e., is only capable of thinking "jump left" or "jump right."

These traits become a problem only when they become so strong they are undermining our LTRs with loved ones. Because high functioning people are extremely reluctant to recognize having the traits when the traits are strong, you most likely had only mild traits -- given your success in dealing with them. If you did have strong traits, you are one of those rare individuals having the self awareness and ego strength to learn how to manage them. Either way, you should be very proud of your accomplishments. Take care, Greenpearl.


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## greenpearl

Uptown,

You talked about childhood. 

My parents had no time to look after me when I was a toddler. They just locked me at home, left me crawling and crying by myself. They didn't dare to tell me much about those years! 

When I was a teenager, my father told me that I was his burden our of his own frustration. It really hurt me. I left home not long after he said that. 

There were many things I don't want to detail. 

My mother was a jealous and insecure woman, I think I got that from her. My father had a very bad temper, I got that from him. 

Boker is my husband. I am glad that he has the patience to deal with me. 

I don't know about Mozart's wife's problem. 

I like the peaceful mind I have now. I don't have anger problem anymore. After I overcame my insecurity problem, I don't have jealousy problem anymore. 

It did take me quite a few years to achieve the peaceful mind I have now. 

I AM VERY PROUD OF MYSELF!  The one who really benefits from all these change is myself. Of course my husband also benefits a lot.


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## Sanity

greenpearl said:


> Uptown,
> 
> You talked about childhood.
> 
> My parents had no time to look after me when I was a toddler. They just locked me at home, left me crawling and crying by myself. They didn't dare to tell me much about those years!
> 
> When I was a teenager, my father told me that I was his burden our of his own frustration. It really hurt me. I left home not long after he said that.
> 
> There were many things I don't want to detail.
> 
> My mother was a jealous and insecure woman, I think I got that from her. My father had a very bad temper, I got that from him.
> 
> Boker is my husband. I am glad that he has the patience to deal with me.
> 
> I don't know about Mozart's wife's problem.
> 
> I like the peaceful mind I have now. I don't have anger problem anymore. After I overcame my insecurity problem, I don't have jealousy problem anymore.
> 
> It did take me quite a few years to achieve the peaceful mind I have now.
> 
> I AM VERY PROUD OF MYSELF!  The one who really benefits from all these change is myself. Of course my husband also benefits a lot.


I'm sorry to hear that. I can't imagine what parent would do this. I'm happy to see that you have moved on from that and become who you are today. You have my respect.


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## Uptown

> Also, never walk out on an argument. Too many men make this mistake. I don't want to criticize, but I just want to state this bluntly: The moment you walk out, you are no longer a man in her eyes. As a man, you need to stay and (calmly) face the dragon head on. Never waver.


Boker, I really like your advice, particularly that about remaining calm and not repeating old arguments. Moreover, since your behavior is helpful to GreenPearl, it is hard for me to argue with success. On your advice of not walking out on an argument, however, I cannot see the logic of it. My exW, for example, would have temper tantrums lasting five hours. As with most BPDers -- who are vindictive and mean when splitting a person black -- my exW would use one false argument after another as a way of bullying and beating up on me. Moreover, she would follow me room to room so I could not escape my punishment. 

Hence, your notion that I should permit this verbal abuse to continue for hours without walking out of the house is puzzling. Specifically, when a woman perceives me to be Hitler or the devil incarnate -- and is treating me accordingly -- my experience is that her opinion of me cannot get any lower by not thinking of me as "the man." Moreover, I find that walking out during the tirade is the only way to send a clear signal to her that the behavior will not be tolerated for one minute, much less five hours. It also makes her suffer the logical consequences of her childish behavior: losing her H, if only for a few hours or days. Because BPDers hate being alone, that logical consequence is very powerful and thus should not be tossed aside in the interests of "being the man." What is needed, I believe, is "being the _absent_ man."

I note that these temper tantrum periods, which typically last five hours (rarely as long as 36 hours), are extremely dangerous times for the nonBPD partners and spouses. This is when wives, and even husbands, are most likely to be physically attacked by their spouses. And, as I personally found out, it is the time when a BPDer wife is most likely to pick up the phone and have her H arrested by fabricating some bogus claim. 

At the end of my marriage, I spent nearly three days in jail because I neglected to walk out. I failed to leave -- as I had failed to do many times before -- because my exW threatened a terrible consequence if I left. In this last instance, she was threatening to give the keys for our rental car to our grand daughter, who was not covered by insurance and who had already destroyed two cars back home. Hence, my consequence of leaving could have cost me several dead family members and all my life savings if our GD ended up killing someone.

If you are intending that your "don't walk away" rule apply not to abusive periods but, rather, only to arguments in which the BPDer is making a sincere effort to seriously discuss the issue, you cannot be talking about untreated BPDers. Such periods rarely -- if ever -- exist. Verbal abuse is used during all arguments and, given how convoluted and absurd the "arguments" are, it is clear that the point of the tirade is to bully you into agreement, not to reach a rational compromise or solution. This is why it is often said that "BPDers are only interested in creating drama, not finding solutions." Their main objective in most arguments, IME, is to either bully their partners into giving them something to which they feel entitled or to validate their false self image of being "a victim." Rational discussion plays no significant role. Instead, the discussion is driven by their intense feelings which they regard to be self evident "facts."

A BPDer therefore will toss out -- and quickly replace -- one ridiculous argument after the other. As I said earlier, even when the partner tries to bring up an important matter when the BPDer is in a calm, happy mood, the anger will be triggered in seconds. This is why I and many other partners can tell you we never had a calm, rational discussion on any important matter during our entire marriages. During the rare times that appeared to be the case, the BPDer was simply buying time by agreeing -- an agreement she had no intention of honoring days later.


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## Boker

Uptown, I read what you said, but I still stand by the statement not to walk out.


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## Uptown

> My parents had no time to look after me when I was a toddler. They just locked me at home, left me crawling and crying by myself. They didn't dare to tell me much about those years! When I was a teenager, my father told me that I was his burden our of his own frustration. It really hurt me. I left home not long after he said that.


GreenPearl, like Sanity, I find your childhood story simply heart breaking. You had to have had amazing strength to even survive such a childhood. That you were able to not only survive it but also grow up to do so well with Boker is a testament to your strength, intelligence, resourcefulness, and courage. As I've said many times, my experience is that most BPDers are way above average in intelligence -- otherwise, they would not have survived childhood.


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## Uptown

Boker said:


> Uptown, I read what you said, but I still stand by the statement not to walk out.


And you may be right, Boker. Like I said, it is hard to argue with success. GreenPearl has stayed by your side and my exW left me. I am happy for the two of you and wish you the best.


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## Sanity

Boker said:


> Uptown, I read what you said, but I still stand by the statement not to walk out.


I used to believe this but BPDs will wear you down like wind and rain can on a mighty mountain. It's a slow process but effective. If you continue to argue and stand your ground with a BPDer you are going to develop health issues. Trust me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Boker

Don't argue with her. A lot of what she's saying is just to provoke a reaction. Don't give in to the provocation. If you respond or otherwise acknowledge the provocation, she's accomplished her goal. Take control of the argument and diffuse it by asking her questions and turning it into a discussion. Get her to explain herself or steer the conversation in slightly different direction. Never walk out, however you may walk away if the discussion is in a public setting.


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## lightfoot44

This post and the thread totally freaked me out. It's the story of my entire marriage. I've been married for 27 years, and been walking on eggshells for 26 1/2 years. My wife behaves exactly like yours Mozart. She blames me for everything that goes wrong, even the actions or mistakes of other people. One word can trip her off, so I try to work my way around using certain words, phrases, etc. The problem is that the trigger word is always different, so it ends up blowing up in my face anyway.
I do love my wife, but her incessant accusations of infidelity have worn me down to a mere shell of my former self. I have never cheated on her, and I never would. How many times have I told her that?????? Far too many to count. It could be a co-worker, or a neighbor, or a person in the store I don't even know, which triggers her jealousy and rage. I can never know the trigger word, person, phrase, that will set her off.
I've read about borderline personality disorder, and actually thought that she had just that about 15 years ago, but I'll not bring that up with her, because she would fly into a rage and accuse me of trying to dump her, or get rid of her. I did suggest counseling, but she refuses, and I'm not sure that it would work anyway. I would do anything to get her back to the person she was for the first 6 months of our marriage, but I don't know what it is that I should or could do. 
My wife is 57, looks 40, and I tell her how good she looks all the time. I don't understand why she feel that I will dump her and pick someone else. This has been going on so long, that I have no friends, and just cringe in fear of having any social get togethers with anyone. For example....she invited a couple of her friends over for dinner, a few weeks ago, and her friend gave me a casual kiss on the cheek since it had been so long that we had seen each other. At that time not a word was mentioned. It is now 3 weeks later and my wife is accusing me of having an "interest" in her friend, and that I must "want" her because I LET her give me a hello kiss. 
Before that....about a year ago, we both went to the dentist, and I was just having a casual conversation with the dental hygienist. I have been hearing about how I "want" this woman, and desire her up until this day. A year plus of accusations, innuendos, implications, etc. have left me worn out and a basket case of frazzled nerves.
I can't even count the nights that she has woke me up and started the accusations about me wanting other women. She has enormous difficulty sleeping, and I believe it's because her mind is in overdrive with jealous rage. I almost believe she is purposeful in her concoctions of these accusations. It's like she prepares a "case" in her head, with all the details worked out, and then lambastes me with it.
Of course our sex life has gone down the drain. Who wants to make love to a person who has actually said many times over that she hates me, and who continually calls me names, and berates me.
Call me stupid, but I do still love her, and I'd do anything to try to make our marriage work. Anyway....just wanted to say that this thread did make me feel better, since I now know that others are going through the same thing.


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## Toffer

lightfoot,

You know this is a post that's been dormant for over a year right?


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## lightfoot44

Toffer said:


> lightfoot,
> 
> You know this is a post that's been dormant for over a year right?


I know that, and it doesn't make it any less relevant to me, that's for sure. Consider it re-activated.


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## Toffer

No problem!

Sometimes when we connect with a thread we jump on even though a lot of the other folks who may have participated in the past are long gone. Mozart hasn't been on the site in over a year now

I have done it myself and was just cheking!


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## lightfoot44

I wonder whether he resolved his issue. It sure reached out and grabbed my attention. Thanks for your response and information.


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## Uptown

Lightfoot, welcome to the TAM forum. I'm sorry to hear you are married to a woman you believe has strong BPD traits.


lightfoot44 said:


> I've been married for 27 years, and been walking on eggshells for 26 1/2 years.


As I did above for Mozart, I suggest you read _Stop Walking on Eggshells._ It is the best-selling BPD book targeted to the partners and spouses of BPDers.


> I do love my wife, but her incessant accusations of infidelity have worn me down to a mere shell of my former self.


If your W is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), she is incapable of trusting anyone for an extended period because, being unstable, she is unable to trust herself. This inability to trust gives rise to a BPDer's great fear of abandonment.


> I can never know the trigger word, person, phrase, that will set her off.


And sometimes it won't even require a word to be said. My exW, for example, could be triggered by my glancing at another woman for a half-second instead of a third-second. Moreover, even when you say or do absolutely NOTHING, a BPDer will create an accusation out of thin air. When she is feeling bad about herself, she will project that bad feeling onto you so as to avoid having to deal with the self doubts. Because the projection works entirely at the subconscious level, she will be absolutely convinced -- in her conscious mind -- that the thought is originating from YOU.

The result is that, regardless of what you do or say, she will frequently perceive you to be "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of every misfortune and bad thought. In this way, she "validates" her false self-image of herself as being "The Victim," always "The Victim." 


> I've read about borderline personality disorder, and actually thought that she had just that about 15 years ago, but I'll not bring that up with her, because she would fly into a rage and accuse me of trying to dump her, or get rid of her.


You were wise not to mention BPD to her. As you surmised, she almost certainly fly into a rage and accuse you of wanting to dump her. On top of that -- as I discussed immediately above -- she almost certainly would project the accusation back onto you. The result would be her becoming absolutely convinced that YOU are the one suffering from strong BPD traits.


> I did suggest counseling, but she refuses, and I'm not sure that it would work anyway.


Because she is refusing, you can be certain that counseling would not work because, for there to be any chance of success, she must want to do it badly. My experience is that MC is useless for a BPDer because her issues go far beyond a lack of communication skills. What is required is at least several years of IC. Although there are many excellent IC treatments available, it is rare for a high functioning BPDer to have the self awareness and ego strength to stay with it long enough to make a difference.


> I would do anything to get her back to the person she was for the first 6 months of our marriage....


Lightfoot, there is nothing to go back to if your W has strong BPD traits. What you saw during that first few months was mostly a reflection of YOUR own best traits, not a real HER. Because BPDers have a fragile, unstable self image, they tend to mirror the personality of the person they are around -- thus using that person's strong, stable personality as a way of grounding and centering themselves. A BPDer will do this big time -- pulling out all the stops -- when she becomes infatuated with a new lover. Indeed, she will so perfectly mirror the new lover that both of you will be convinced you have met your "soul mate."


> I don't understand why she feels that I will dump her and pick someone else.


There is nothing to understand because it is not a reasoned, logical thought. Instead, it is only a powerful feeling -- a strong fear of abandonment. Because a BPDer has little ability to control her emotions, that feeling becomes so powerfully intense that she is convinced it MUST be true. Unlike the rest of us, BPDers never learned the skill of intellectually challenging those intense feelings. Instead, BPDers accept them as being accurate reflections of reality. The result is that, the harder you try to prove your love, the more insistent she will become that you cannot possibly mean it. Until a BPDer learns to trust and value herself, she cannot trust you to remain loyal to her.


> She has enormous difficulty sleeping, and I believe it's because her mind is in overdrive with jealous rage.


My BPDer exW is the same way. Following one of our arguments, I typically would be asleep within 20 minutes of getting into bed. She would be awake for many hours, however. BPDers lack the skill of self-calming and therefore try to force you into becoming a soothing object that calms them down. 

In that way, you likely have been harming your W -- as I did mine for 15 years -- by protecting her from the logical consequences of her own bad behavior. As long as you keep enabling her -- by walking on eggshells and soothing her -- she has no incentive to grow up and learn adult skills such as self soothing and how to intellectually challenge her intense feelings.


> I almost believe she is purposeful in her concoctions of these accusations. It's like she prepares a "case" in her head, with all the details worked out, and then lambastes me with it.


Perhaps so with your W. Generally, however, BPDers are too impulsive to be very good at scheming ahead of time and then flawlessly executing that scheme. Instead, they tend to be very reactive to what is happening at the moment. And, when their anger is triggered, they tend to pull out a long list of grievances, i.e., everything including the kitchen sink. This is why BPDers are said to do "kitchen sinking" when you are trying to discuss a single issue with them. Of course, nothing gets resolved that way but BPDers usually are only interested in creating drama, not finding solutions.


> Our sex life has gone down the drain. Who wants to make love to a person who has actually said many times over that she hates me, and who continually calls me names, and berates me.


My BPDer exW would sometimes be ready to make love immediately after throwing a tantrum for several hours. In contrast, I wouldn't want to touch her for several days after seeing such an outpouring of hatred and ugliness. The reason that a BPDer can flip from hating you to loving you -- in ten seconds -- is that she does "splitting," where she splits off part of her mind, putting some feelings out of touch to her conscious mind. Guys like you and me, however, are nearly always in touch with all of our conflicting feelings, because we can tolerate ambiguities, uncertainties, and having strong mixed feelings. BPDers cannot tolerate those grey areas because their personalities are not yet well integrated.


> Call me stupid, but I do still love her.


If you are stupid for loving her, that makes two of us. Although I separated from my exW six years ago, and although I know she is too unstable for me to ever trust again, I still love her to this day.


> This thread did make me feel better, since I now know that others are going through the same thing.


You will find thousands of people like us at BPDfamily.com, a site that is growing by 20 new members a day. That is an indication of how large this problem is. A recent study found 6% of the population to have full-blown BPD at some point in their lifetimes. Perhaps another 3% have traits below that level but still strong enough to make your life miserable and undermine a marriage. And, because BPDers tend to leave a long trail of abused ex-partners in their wake, the prevalence of such ex-partners likely well exceeds 9%.


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## lightfoot44

Thanks for such a well designed answer. My only question is.....is there anything I can do right now to help this situation in addition to reading the book?


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## Uptown

lightfoot44 said:


> Is there anything I can do right now to help this situation in addition to reading the book?


Lightfoot, I was hoping you would ask. I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com -- the forum I mentioned above. Of the 8 message boards, the two that likely will be most useful are the "Staying" and "Leaving" boards.

Second, while you are at BPDfamily.com, I suggest you read the excellent articles in their resources section. My favorite is "Surviving a Breakup with Someone with BPD" at T9 Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder - Columbia University, New York.

Third, I suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. As I've explained in other threads, your best chance of getting a candid opinion regarding a possible BPD diagnosis is to NOT have the BPDer along. Therapists are loath to tell high functioning BPDers the name of the disorder because it usually is not in the best interests of the BPDer clients to be told the name.

Fourth, I suggest you read _Codependent No More_ in addition to the _Eggshells_ book. If you've been tolerating BPDer behavior for nearly 27 years, you almost certainly have strong aspects of being an excessive caregiver -- just like I do.

Finally, Lightfoot, please don't forget those of us on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences here, you are helping others who are in the same predicament.


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## whywhywhy

Let me first say...A lot of this sounds like Delusional Disorder Jealousy Type. My spouse has it and it too 14 years to figure it out. 
I could have written any of these posts. 

My spouse has been accusing me of the unthinkable for almost our entire relationship. The last year has been the worse. The things he says crush me. I am by all rights a wonderful wife and mother. I am loyal and affectionate. I seek to please him all the time. I bend over backwards to make him feel loved and respected. Even more so since the diagnosis, All to no avail. Whether it be a bruise or a scratch a "man" smell on my clothes. It can be anything. "What are you typing, what are you reading who are you talking to", that's my life constant questioning. I really have no friends because any conversation is a delusion that I am off having wild sex parties. Man or women either way I am a **** and have to be cheating on him. Why else would he think I was cheating if I really wasn't(his logic). He couldn't possibly be imagining it. Oh he is always apologetic and begging for forgiveness. Says he'll never do it again if I give him one more chance. But I don't think I have it in me anymore. So many years of his rage and accusations. I am so tired tired tired. I walk on egg shells always afraid I will get "caught". Caught doing what I don't know but I am always judging every conversation I have..would he find it inappropriate. I avoid all eye contact even when he isn't around I avert my eyes lest someone gets the wrong idea. I isolate myself to keep him safe but it makes no difference any comment and conversation and bruise or scratch can lead to his accusing me or implying I have been unfaithful. I am as loyal as they come but I am ready to unloyal myself and leave him. I am toasted and want to have a bit of freedom and be able to breath. I can't let him eat me away anymore. How do you get free? I just don't know how and so it goes on and on. I feel pathetic and weak for letting someone treat me like this. I am a SAHM so it isn't s if I can just move out. I am trapped in a relationship of emotional abuse. All I can do at this point is harden my heart and not care what he thinks and let the future take care of it for me. 
To anyone that asks "could you have done something to provoke this?" you have no idea how insulting that is. Cheater's don't have to ask why their spouses would think they would cheat. I have never done anything to make him think I was cheating. In fact most of our relationship he would say comments and look at other women to try to make me jealous. I never did those things to him. My waving to a neighbor is enough to make him go crazy and stew and steam until he went off on a rage fit. So please don't ask me if I did anything because I have been loyal and trustworthy my entire life, it is my character through and through. I expect the same standard of him and I believe him to be loyal, just not trusting and what is a relationship without trust?


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## lightfoot44

I feel your pain...really. I live from one accusational crisis to another. Right now, the tide is out, and things are somewhat calm, but it could be later today, tomorrow, next week, that the tidal wave comes crashing in. Walking on eggshells is my specialty. I have learned this art over 25 years of accusations. You are not alone, so take comfort in that.


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## Uptown

lightfoot44 said:


> I live from one accusational crisis to another. Right now, the tide is out, and things are somewhat calm.


Welcome back, Lightfoot. I hadn't heard anything from you since August. Am glad to hear you are doing okay. Did you find the book and BPDfamily.com helpful?


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## lightfoot44

Uptown said:


> Welcome back, Lightfoot. I hadn't heard anything from you since August. Am glad to hear you are doing okay. Did you find the book and BPDfamily.com helpful?


In all honesty, I really didn't look at the book, but I did find the website you mentioned handy. Thanks for the welcome back. I continue to ride the rollercoaster with my wife. Tonight, the tidal wave came back in, but I am better able to handle it by refusing to argue and just going to another room until I can cool off. Call me stupid, but I still love her, and thanks to you, now understand that she is the one with the problem, not me. So thanks for that.


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## Uptown

lightfoot44 said:


> Call me stupid, but I still love her.


Well, if you're stupid for continuing to love a BPDer, that makes two of us. Although I've been divorced for 5 years and no longer communicate with my exW, I still love her. We have a history with each other that goes back 48 years. We separated because, as I eventually learned to establish stronger personal boundaries, she decided to end our marriage by having me thrown in jail -- and then obtaining a RO barring me from coming within 100 feet of my own home. I no longer communicate with her because I finally realized that, when someone is incapable of trusting me, I can never trust them. They can turn on me at any time.


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## catwoman20

Hi everyone, I know guy's you will hate me because I do jealous were been married for 5 years and 3 kids I have 6 brother in laws and all married so I have 6 sister in laws to them 2 of them I did jealous already and I won the jealousy meaning I survive our marriage is success and full of love until one day one of my sister in law need somebody to drop her to work for 2 months because the husband is off the country for work shes not driving they talk to us if my husband can drop her to work for 2 months Monday thru Friday in morning only because my husband working night time during that time I'm 6 months pregnant I noticed him he don't to have S with me I'm thinking is it because I'm pregnant & I noticed the girl after work always standby to our house & always asking where my husband. I did confront my husband he nothing happen between us and can't be until now after 10 months our relationship is struggling because of that I always pray to our Lord please help me to trust my husband on what saying to me that he will help me for everything and love me so much even him he said the his always praying to the lord to help us to bring back our relationship. Thanks to all of you for reading.


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## lightfoot44

catwoman20 said:


> Hi everyone, I know guy's you will hate me because I do jealous were been married for 5 years and 3 kids I have 6 brother in laws and all married so I have 6 sister in laws to them 2 of them I did jealous already and I won the jealousy meaning I survive our marriage is success and full of love until one day one of my sister in law need somebody to drop her to work for 2 months because the husband is off the country for work shes not driving they talk to us if my husband can drop her to work for 2 months Monday thru Friday in morning only because my husband working night time during that time I'm 6 months pregnant I noticed him he don't to have S with me I'm thinking is it because I'm pregnant & I noticed the girl after work always standby to our house & always asking where my husband. I did confront my husband he nothing happen between us and can't be until now after 10 months our relationship is struggling because of that I always pray to our Lord please help me to trust my husband on what saying to me that he will help me for everything and love me so much even him he said the his always praying to the lord to help us to bring back our relationship. Thanks to all of you for reading.



I think it's really dangerous to accuse without "concrete" evidence that there is wrongdoing. It is a relationship killer for sure. There are many reasons why a guy is slow on the S thing. It could be stress or even low T. Nothing pisses a guy off more than to be accused of things they aren't doing, and I assume the same goes for women. Just curious, I noticed from your sentence construction that it's a possibility that you are Asian. My wife is a Filipina, and I'm wondering if there is some common genetic thread, perhaps from the Spanish blood, that gives a tendency to be a little quick on the anger trigger, and very hotheaded from time to time. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'll put that out there.


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## lightfoot44

Uptown said:


> Well, if you're stupid for continuing to love a BPDer, that makes two of us. Although I've been divorced for 5 years and no longer communicate with my exW, I still love her. We have a history with each other that goes back 48 years. We separated because, as I eventually learned to establish stronger personal boundaries, she decided to end our marriage by having me thrown in jail -- and then obtaining a RO barring me from coming within 100 feet of my own home. I no longer communicate with her because I finally realized that, when someone is incapable of trusting me, I can never trust them. They can turn on me at any time.


They can turn on you at any time. It's like playing with a live grenade. I have to try to make this work somehow, but as for your case, I can see that you had no choice but to separate.


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## catwoman20

Hi lightfoot44,

Thank you so much for reply on my letter. I'm not really jealousy wife because its not a big deal to me if he look to other girl I think that's normal from a guy and even us girl same also we look to a guy to if he look attractive were not just a robot we are human. Yeah your right I accused him without any evidence this forum on this website help me a lot specially your problem I see your suffering to your marriage shes accusing you without evidence and I can tell to your letter that you love her so much I don't want my husband experience what your experiencing now, after reading all this forum I change a lot I did promise to my self before losing my husband and my kids family I will change and try my best to fix it I promise that I will enjoy the rest of my life loving my husband and kids will do my best because I'm still lucky and blessed to have him. Yes I am a Filipina I've been in US for 8 years my husband also a Filipino. Can I ask you question if you don't mind? Do you have kids? I wish I can talk to your wife to give some advice to put on his brain and heart how lucky she is to have you in our language we can more express our feelings in our language. What I'm doing now I go to the church every Tuesday afternoon I'm catholic I go to adoration chapel sit down there for 30min keep on asking lord to help me not thinking bad to my husband and asking for his forgiveness to all my sin. I will pray your own to.


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## catwoman20

lightfoot44 said:


> I think it's really dangerous to accuse without "concrete" evidence that there is wrongdoing. It is a relationship killer for sure. There are many reasons why a guy is slow on the S thing. It could be stress or even low T. Nothing pisses a guy off more than to be accused of things they aren't doing, and I assume the same goes for women. Just curious, I noticed from your sentence construction that it's a possibility that you are Asian. My wife is a Filipina, and I'm wondering if there is some common genetic thread, perhaps from the Spanish blood, that gives a tendency to be a little quick on the anger trigger, and very hotheaded from time to time. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'll put that out there.


Yes I think your correct my own opinion I think all Filipina when they got inlove or love a person its too much were giving our 100% love and attention we want everything is perfect for our husband.


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## lightfoot44

catwoman20 said:


> Hi lightfoot44,
> 
> Thank you so much for reply on my letter. I'm not really jealousy wife because its not a big deal to me if he look to other girl I think that's normal from a guy and even us girl same also we look to a guy to if he look attractive were not just a robot we are human. Yeah your right I accused him without any evidence this forum on this website help me a lot specially your problem I see your suffering to your marriage shes accusing you without evidence and I can tell to your letter that you love her so much I don't want my husband experience what your experiencing now, after reading all this forum I change a lot I did promise to my self before losing my husband and my kids family I will change and try my best to fix it I promise that I will enjoy the rest of my life loving my husband and kids will do my best because I'm still lucky and blessed to have him. Yes I am a Filipina I've been in US for 8 years my husband also a Filipino. Can I ask you question if you don't mind? Do you have kids? I wish I can talk to your wife to give some advice to put on his brain and heart how lucky she is to have you in our language we can more express our feelings in our language. What I'm doing now I go to the church every Tuesday afternoon I'm catholic I go to adoration chapel sit down there for 30min keep on asking lord to help me not thinking bad to my husband and asking for his forgiveness to all my sin. I will pray your own to.


The fact that you recognize that you need to do some work on your relationship is what would make you different than my wife. She feels all negative things are my fault. As far as talking to my wife....ummmmmm definitely not a good idea. She would think I was hunting down sexy women on the internet...lol...so you can see how absurd this can all get. Even the most innocent of intentions can mean a major nuclear explosion. Being Catholic, as both my wife and I are, is a help because marriage is a sacrament, not to be taken lightly, and definitely worth trying to salvage at any cost. Thank you for your prayer intentions. It helps just talking to someone. Yes, we have one daughter, 8 years old who is presently in the Philippines. She just received Canadian Citizenship through me, and we are trying to bring her here. The US Government has caused us alot of pain in this process, because they won't let her be a legal resident here. It appears we will have to move to Canada. All this has put an enormous strain on our relationship as well. I promised our daughter that I'd never give up trying to bring her to be with us, and I've kept my word. It took 3 years for me to get her Citizenship in Canada. We are presently applying for her Canadian Passport.


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## SelfTweaks

I will not go into the great details, but I will reinforce a few points already mentioned by these great contributors:

There is no doubt that you love your wife and you are doing all you can to make it work. You are to be commended that you haven't made infidelity an issue in your marriage.

Therein also lies the crux of the problem - unfortunately you belong to a very small group of men who don't cheat on their wives. I am not a professional therapist so I dare not diagnose your wife, but from casual observation, it seems that she has either experienced or witnessed infidelity in relationships and she has carried the emotional baggage into this relationship.

Her insecurities coupled with her controlling and demanding nature suggest that professional help is definitely needed. I would advise that you start off with going to a marriage counselor together. This is where you put your foot down by insisting that refusing to go is not an option, not in proving your innocence.

If your wife needs additional, more personal counseling, your marriage counselor is skilled in getting her to the right people who can help her.

This will not be an easy fix and you should prepare yourself for the possibility that there might not be a fix. You should not have to sacrifice your sanity or sense of being for the sake of marriage. I only ask that you exhaust all your options before you call it quits.

I wish you all the best.


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## can't take it

How can you make the judgements about the woman if you haven't heard from both parties. My husband now thinks I have this disorder . Yes im jealous but if your not shown by him your loved what do you expect. Hes not kissed me since we were married. He doesnt want me or touch me and he blames it on how jealous I am but he cant see that he has always made me feel not loved by him. If I hug him he even drops his arms to his side like hes discussed im touching him.


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