# Wife's Past



## cam44

I’ve read other posts on this and the responses but I simpy HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO come to grips with my wife’s past partners. We’ve been married 7 years and have 2 kids. I dearly love her and we have a great physical relationship but I am still haunted by the fact that she had been with 5 guys before me. I wasn’t a virgin when we married either and I regret that both of us didn’t save ourselves. It says in the bible that intimacy is the closest 2 people can get to heaven while on earth and that we should save ourselves for our partner for marriage – God I wish we had. I come back to the fact that we don’t physically share anything greater than she has shared with other men before. I just cannot imagine her experiencing this amazing intimacy with men that she had no commitment with or even possible thoughts of commitment. We have had this talk many times in the past and she just treats the topic very casually and shrugs it off and says ‘I was just having fun’. That comment sticks in my gut like a knife and I cannot erase it. The woman that I adore referring to another man being ‘inside’ her as fun when the image makes me almost literally ill – it actually makes me truly physically ill. When she compares this ‘special’ ‘sacred’ thing that is so amazing between us as ‘fun’ it really makes me disgusted. I have struggled with this for years and go for periods being ‘ok’ with it or not dwelling on it but then it hits me like a wave and I slip into this deep depression – that I can’t even share with my wife because ‘we’ve been over that’ and it would just cause a fight anyways. I have seen counselors over it and been on medication as well … what is my sickness … I think about the fact that another man has pleasured the woman that I think of as my ‘soulmate’ and I just cringe … imagining that she gave that away to someone that means nothing to her … then it must in reality be something that doesn’t mean anything to her and that it is just physical gratification and that just makes me even more sick … at least if I picture her deeply ‘in love’ with the other guys it makes me feel that she was being true to herself … but if she was in love with them and it was very passionate it is also extremely disgusting. Does she ever think back to those moments and secretly cherish them? Does she ever compare me to any of them? Does what we share really have emotional meaning to it? I provide for our family so that she doesn’t have to work, bought an extremely expensive engagement ring, help with EVERYTHING around the house, the kids, EVERYTHING because I love them all – and because I respect and want to show respect for all of us. The thought that not ONE of her previous lovers would have invested more than a $20 meal at McDonalds on her in those days and shared what I share with her makes it difficult to treat what we share physically meaningful … and I want it to be meaningful. Last year we ran into a guy that she dated at a party. She introduced me and told me that they had ‘dated’. I could hardly control the thoughts that overcame me – him on top of her … him laughing at me right now inside … how ‘fun’ was he anyways – did he really physically amaze her but they didn’t last because of other reasons – maybe HE dumped HER … maybe I’m the worst lover she ever had, but she married me because I treat her great and make her laugh & take care of her … he was allot bigger guy than me too – did he ‘satisfy’ her (not that I would ever know) in ways I never could or did he just have big hands and feet … I don’t even be in that position -- I don’t need to have that shoved in my face ?!?!


----------



## norajane

> I have seen counselors over it and been on medication as well … what is my sickness …


If you've seen counselors for your retroactive jealousy, I don't know that anyone here can help you get over it. 

Obviously trying to reason yourself out of it isn't helping - I'm sure somewhere in your head you realize that your wife CHOSE YOU for a reason, and that reason is the whole package you are. Your wife CHOSE YOU to be the father of her children. Your wife may have had sex with other people before marriage, as did you, but that does not mean she shared the kind of physical, emotional, intellectual and spiritual intimacy she shares with you in a marriage. You had sex with other people before marriage and that obviously does not in any way diminish what you feel for your wife and is indeed quite different.

You cannot erase the past - that is not an option. All you can do is change your perspective. 

So if counselors, logic, drugs won't help, what do you think you need? You quote the Bible...have you sought guidance from your minister?


----------



## Conrad

Sometimes, people really amaze me.

I've been married twice. Second wife moved out because she chose her male friends over me. She's one of those women who requires a lot of male attention. Evidently I'm not enough for her. I get the impression she thinks relationships are about cake eating meaning she gets the security that marriage provides but gets to flirt, play and do whatever else she wants to do without any responsibilities.

You sound as if you have everything necessary for a smooth wonderful life as a husband and father. And, you insist on getting in your own way because you are selfish.

You have a very giving wonderful attractive partner who willingly rocks your world. Rather than take up your spear, putting on your armor, and conquering the world for her, you insist on letting your pride dictate insecurity and smallness.

Grow up.




cam44 said:


> I’ve read other posts on this and the responses but I simpy HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO come to grips with my wife’s past partners. We’ve been married 7 years and have 2 kids. I dearly love her and we have a great physical relationship but I am still haunted by the fact that she had been with 5 guys before me. I wasn’t a virgin when we married either and I regret that both of us didn’t save ourselves. It says in the bible that intimacy is the closest 2 people can get to heaven while on earth and that we should save ourselves for our partner for marriage – God I wish we had. I come back to the fact that we don’t physically share anything greater than she has shared with other men before. I just cannot imagine her experiencing this amazing intimacy with men that she had no commitment with or even possible thoughts of commitment. We have had this talk many times in the past and she just treats the topic very casually and shrugs it off and says ‘I was just having fun’. That comment sticks in my gut like a knife and I cannot erase it. The woman that I adore referring to another man being ‘inside’ her as fun when the image makes me almost literally ill – it actually makes me truly physically ill. When she compares this ‘special’ ‘sacred’ thing that is so amazing between us as ‘fun’ it really makes me disgusted. I have struggled with this for years and go for periods being ‘ok’ with it or not dwelling on it but then it hits me like a wave and I slip into this deep depression – that I can’t even share with my wife because ‘we’ve been over that’ and it would just cause a fight anyways. I have seen counselors over it and been on medication as well … what is my sickness … I think about the fact that another man has pleasured the woman that I think of as my ‘soulmate’ and I just cringe … imagining that she gave that away to someone that means nothing to her … then it must in reality be something that doesn’t mean anything to her and that it is just physical gratification and that just makes me even more sick … at least if I picture her deeply ‘in love’ with the other guys it makes me feel that she was being true to herself … but if she was in love with them and it was very passionate it is also extremely disgusting. Does she ever think back to those moments and secretly cherish them? Does she ever compare me to any of them? Does what we share really have emotional meaning to it? I provide for our family so that she doesn’t have to work, bought an extremely expensive engagement ring, help with EVERYTHING around the house, the kids, EVERYTHING because I love them all – and because I respect and want to show respect for all of us. The thought that not ONE of her previous lovers would have invested more than a $20 meal at McDonalds on her in those days and shared what I share with her makes it difficult to treat what we share physically meaningful … and I want it to be meaningful. Last year we ran into a guy that she dated at a party. She introduced me and told me that they had ‘dated’. I could hardly control the thoughts that overcame me – him on top of her … him laughing at me right now inside … how ‘fun’ was he anyways – did he really physically amaze her but they didn’t last because of other reasons – maybe HE dumped HER … maybe I’m the worst lover she ever had, but she married me because I treat her great and make her laugh & take care of her … he was allot bigger guy than me too – did he ‘satisfy’ her (not that I would ever know) in ways I never could or did he just have big hands and feet … I don’t even be in that position -- I don’t need to have that shoved in my face ?!?!


----------



## cam44

Thanks. I haven't seen a minister for any help but we do go to church every weekend. 

sometimes I am ok for months ... then these little questions that I mentioned pop into my head that I have no way to answer. Am I wierd or does this bother allot of men. How crazy is this?


----------



## norajane

cam44 said:


> Thanks. I haven't seen a minister for any help but we do go to church every weekend.
> 
> sometimes I am ok for months ... then these little questions that I mentioned pop into my head that I have no way to answer. Am I wierd or does this bother allot of men. How crazy is this?


To me, it's exceedingly crazy. And it puts your wife in a LOSE position, because you are holding something against her and creating distance between you. YOU are damaging your marriage, not her past. YOU are choosing to let this be a problem. 

I'll tell you this - women do not see past lovers the same way they see their husbands. The sex she has with you is VASTLY different from what she had in the past. Maybe it's hard for you to understand, but the connection she feels with you far surpasses anything she felt with anyone else. That SHOULD BE ENOUGH for you. Especially since you can't erase the past. And especially since you also had sex with other women prior to marriage. 

It's just different, and it would be best for you to accept that and focus on what you HAVE in your life and in your marriage. Be grateful that you have a wonderful woman who isn't divorcing you because you can't get these sick and unhealthy thoughts out of your head to the point that you are creating strife where there isn't any.

Did these thoughts trouble you when you married her? Why marry her, then? If not, then why did they start?

Have you tried a CBT counselor? Behavioral therapy often works far better than talk therapy.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

norajane said:


> To me, it's exceedingly crazy. And it puts your wife in a LOSE position, because you are holding something against her and creating distance between you. YOU are damaging your marriage, not her past. YOU are choosing to let this be a problem.
> 
> I'll tell you this - women do not see past lovers the same way they see their husbands. The sex she has with you is VASTLY different from what she had in the past. Maybe it's hard for you to understand, but the connection she feels with you far surpasses anything she felt with anyone else. That SHOULD BE ENOUGH for you. Especially since you can't erase the past. And especially since you also had sex with other women prior to marriage.
> 
> It's just different, and it would be best for you to accept that and focus on what you HAVE in your life and in your marriage. Be grateful that you have a wonderful woman who isn't divorcing you because you can't get these sick and unhealthy thoughts out of your head to the point that you are creating strife where there isn't any.
> 
> Did these thoughts trouble you when you married her? Why marry her, then? If not, then why did they start?
> 
> Have you tried a CBT counselor? Behavioral therapy often works far better than talk therapy.


To follow on and ask Cam a question, is the sex you have with your wife the same as the sex you had before? If it is, consider what type of emotional connection you have. It should be different. Heck, the sex I have now with my wife is many times better than what we had when we were dating. The connection and trust and improved it immensely.


----------



## Mavash.

You need to run not walk to your nearest therapist's office. You can't get over this yourself therefore you need help to do it and if you don't you will RUIN your marriage. This is nothing more than negative thinking that you keep pushing 'replay' on so long that the grooves are worn. The longer you put off seeking help for this the worse it will get.

You must learn to STOP these toxic thoughts you are having about things you cannot control.

Please go talk to someone other than TAM about this.


----------



## Lionelhutz

I wonder about your own sense of self-worth as a potential starting point to "move past this." 

It sounds like you are completely self-sacrificing and that is how you understand love, but this can easily lead into a loss of self that is not healthy for you or is unlikely to be appealing to her in the long run.

I also wonder if you generally suffer from anxiety or depression and this issue is simply what you have focused on as the "source" of those feeling. Do you think if you didn't have this issue there would be another just behind it?

Finally, I wonder if you view your past sexual experiences as disqualifying you from feel a special love or intimacy with your wife. If not, then can't you imagine her feeling the same way?


----------



## Thor

Lionelhutz said:


> I wonder about your own sense of self-worth as a potential starting point to "move past this."


:iagree:

I think Cam44 is a good candidate for No More Mr. Nice Guy. Get the book and do the exercises. Also visit the forums at nomoremrniceguy.com/forums .

Also check out the forums at themarriagebed.com which is a strongly Christian based forum. I think you will find people over there who can productively discuss the religious aspects of your issues.

It sounds to me like a fear based response you are having. Fearing that you are inadequate in size, fearing that other men are laughing at you, fearing that your wife doesn't have as much "fun" with you, fearing that you aren't special to your wife.

Another aspect is what is your wife's reaction and behavior related to your issues? Does she do anything which makes you worry about her fidelity or her love for you? Is she supportive in you trying to get over this or does she mock you for it? There may be some relationship issues she could work on that would help you in this issue.


----------



## AFEH

Cam. Bin it and grow up.


----------



## anotherguy

cam44 said:


> ...How crazy is this?


Honestly - I have a hard time believing all this isnt a complete fabrication.

If it is not - I concur with the advice above to 'run not walk' to your therapist as your ONLY option. The twisted, hyperbolic magnitude of what you express far exceeds the utility of any advice you are going to get on an internet discussion forum or any self help blather you choose to read.

IMHO.


----------



## PBear

I'm with the others... This is your issue to deal with, and you need more help than you can get in a place like this. If one-on-one counseling isn't cutting it for you, I don't know what the answer is, though.

She can't change her past, and you married her presumably knowing her past. You've been married for 7 freaking years. How long can you hold that against her? You've shared so much with her, and there's so many experiences that she's shared only with you. Like having children together, for example. Get over the few things that weren't your's exclusively.

Talk to your religious counselor, and see if they can assist you. I'm sure they've run into this before.

C


----------



## Hicks

cam44;584295 I have seen counselors over it and been on medication as well … what is my sickness …[/QUOTE said:


> Your sickness is called insecurity.


----------



## lascarx

And if you really had been both untried when you married, you'd both be wondering what other people were like in bed and thinking of cheating on each other already. Plenty of documented cases if you don't believe me, even among the churched. Probably especially among the churched, come to think of it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

You need to start looking forward and quit looking back.


----------



## MSP

cam44 said:


> Thanks. I haven't seen a minister for any help but we do go to church every weekend.
> 
> sometimes I am ok for months ... then these little questions that I mentioned pop into my head that I have no way to answer. Am I wierd or does this bother allot of men. How crazy is this?



Think of it this way: you beat those other men. She chose you. You win. You can laugh at them (if you wish). 

See your minister if you like. Pray together with your wife for this. Don't accuse her of anything. Just say that this is something that you want to pray about together so that *you* can get healed. 

If your wife is any kind of Christian then she should have repented from her sins. If she is laughing about it, then she has possibly not repented. However, you are not at all able to force her into repentance. All you can do is to lead the way with your own faith. And when you lead, don't look over your shoulder to see if she is keeping up.

Stop obsessing about it. When you have a thought about your wife's sexual history, tell yourself, "I don't care". Don't fight the thoughts, because that only makes them stronger (what we resist persists). Find something positive to do and focus on that positive action. Forget trying to win the battle in your mind. Focus on actions. Keep them productive and relaxed, as much as possible. Help others in totally unrelated things. Do kind things for your wife.

IMO, you don't need medications or counseling, but if you decide to remove yourself from either of those things, discuss it with your health professional first.


----------



## FirstYearDown

*Paragraphs!*

How do you expect anyone to read this jumble of words?? Please use paragraphs.



cam44 said:


> I’ve read other posts on this and the
> responses but I simpy HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO come to grips with my wife’s past partners. You cannot change her past. She is with you now and that is all that matters. Men can be so pathetic with their double standards and Madonna/***** complexes.  We’ve been married 7 years and have 2 kids. I dearly love her and we have a great physical relationship but I am still haunted by the fact that she had been with 5 guys before me. FIVE MEN?? :rofl: That is not even approaching promiscuous. Don't you have more important things to think about? I wasn’t a virgin when we married either and I regret that both of us didn’t save ourselves.Why??? It says in the bible that intimacy is the closest 2 people can get to heaven while on earth and that we should save ourselves for our partner for marriage – God I wish we had. You cannot go back and change it, so it is a waste of energy to have regrets about this. I come back to the fact that we don’t physically share anything greater than she has shared with other men before. I just cannot imagine her experiencing this amazing intimacy with men that she had no commitment with or even possible thoughts of commitment. We have had this talk many times in the past and she just treats the topic very casually and shrugs it off and says ‘I was just having fun’. That comment sticks in my gut like a knife and I cannot erase it. No, you cannot. So grow up and move on.The woman that I adore referring to another man being ‘inside’ her as fun when the image makes me almost literally ill – it actually makes me truly physically ill. Yeah, Madonna/***** complexes help nobody. Such an issue is a sign of immaturity. When she compares this ‘special’ ‘sacred’ thing that is so amazing between us as ‘fun’ it really makes me disgusted. It was just fun with those men, but sacred intimacy with you. Can you understand that? I have struggled with this for years and go for periods being ‘ok’ with it or not dwelling on it but then it hits me like a wave and I slip into this deep depression – that I can’t even share with my wife because ‘we’ve been over that’ and it would just cause a fight anyways. I have seen counselors over it Good!and been on medication as wellYou are on meds because your wife was not a virgin?? Why are you doing this to yourself and your marriage? :scratchhead: You need to keep busy, my friend. When we have too much time on our hands, we think about nonsense. … what is my sickness … I think about the fact that another man has pleasured the woman that I think of as my ‘soulmate’ and I just cringe … imagining that she gave that away to someone that means nothing to her … then it must in reality be something that doesn’t mean anything to her and that it is just physical gratification and that just makes me even more sick How sickened would your wife be if she knew her husband was judgemental and childish? … at least if I picture her deeply ‘in love’ with the other guys it makes me feel that she was being true to herself … but if she was in love with them and it was very passionate it is also extremely disgusting. Nothing disgusting about sex. News flash: Some women love to be intimate because it is pleasurable. Some of us are confident enough to recognize our need for sex and go after it. Does she ever think back to those moments and secretly cherish them? Does she ever compare me to any of them? Does what we share really have emotional meaning to it? I provide for our family so that she doesn’t have to work, bought an extremely expensive engagement ring, You are not the first man to buy an expensive ring or provide for his family. Get over yourself, bricks! help with EVERYTHING around the house, the kids, EVERYTHING because I love them all – and because I respect and want to show respect for all of us. The thought that not ONE of her previous lovers would have invested more than a $20 meal at McDonalds on her in those days and shared what I share with her makes it difficult to treat what we share physically meaningful … and I want it to be meaningful. She married you. She did not marry the other men, so your lovemaking is meaningful especially since your wife can distinguish between casual sex and lovemaking. Last year we ran into a guy that she dated at a party. She introduced me and told me that they had ‘dated’. I could hardly control the thoughts that overcame me – him on top of her … him laughing at me right now inside … how ‘fun’ was he anyways – did he really physically amaze her but they didn’t last because of other reasons – maybe HE dumped HER … maybe I’m the worst lover she ever had, but she married me because I treat her great and make her laugh & take care of her … he was allot bigger guy than me too – did he ‘satisfy’ her (not that I would ever know) in ways I never could or did he just have big hands and feet … I don’t even be in that position -- I don’t need to have that shoved in my face ?!?!You have some sort of anxiety problem. Keep attending therapy. This is your problem and not hers.


----------



## cam44

Having 1 -- yes only 1 partner prior to marriage means that my wife was not a virgin. I wasn't either. That means we were promiscuous, that's just basic english (or is it my interpretation ?). I never said my wife was a **** before she met me ... i think compared to many women today I'd say she was relatively reserved -- but I'm not talking about comparing her to anyone else -- just my personal thoughts on this.

I get from the majority of responses that in today's society that we should just accept that men and women are going to have sex without being married. I'm not muslim and I'm not even a good christian, but I don't agree with that mindset. As a society we should at least strive for and recognize the behaviours that we were taught from God -- I think the basic 10 commandments apply to how we behave -- I'm not some brainwashed bible thumper, I'm just saying that this is 'ideal' -- and I know not everything in life is ideal. So what most people are saying is grow up, man up, suck it up, everyone has partners, its the past she loves you now -- ok I've heard your responses.
I was aware of her past before I married my wife and I would still marry her again -- without hesistation -- and I know or I believe that we were meant to be together. I love her more virgin or not than I could ever love another woman. I'm just trying to get my head wrapped around what's causing this insecurity and just how to minimize this so it doesn't matter at all to me ... so the answer is to focus on the fact that she chose me ... focus on building our love for each other so that our intimacy is better and better -- better than anything we had before ... it sounds stupid but I really never thought that it could get better with time and our love for each other but that makes sense.


----------



## Halien

cam44 said:


> Having 1 -- yes only 1 partner prior to marriage means that my wife was not a virgin. I wasn't either. That means we were promiscuous, that's just basic english (or is it my interpretation ?). I never said my wife was a **** before she met me ... i think compared to many women today I'd say she was relatively reserved -- but I'm not talking about comparing her to anyone else -- just my personal thoughts on this.
> 
> I get from the majority of responses that in today's society that we should just accept that men and women are going to have sex without being married. I'm not muslim and I'm not even a good christian, but I don't agree with that mindset. As a society we should at least strive for and recognize the behaviours that we were taught from God -- I think the basic 10 commandments apply to how we behave -- I'm not some brainwashed bible thumper, I'm just saying that this is 'ideal' -- and I know not everything in life is ideal. So what most people are saying is grow up, man up, suck it up, everyone has partners, its the past she loves you now -- ok I've heard your responses.
> I was aware of her past before I married my wife and I would still marry her again -- without hesistation -- and I know or I believe that we were meant to be together. I love her more virgin or not than I could ever love another woman. I'm just trying to get my head wrapped around what's causing this insecurity and just how to minimize this so it doesn't matter at all to me ... so the answer is to focus on the fact that she chose me ... focus on building our love for each other so that our intimacy is better and better -- better than anything we had before ... it sounds stupid but I really never thought that it could get better with time and our love for each other but that makes sense.


You do realize that all the emotional energy you put into thinking about her life before you is a direct tradeoff for the energy that you could use instead to honor God in your marriage, right?

In her brief relationships with other men, she never revealed the deep complexities of her personality that she is offering to you, but you are choosing to focus on a physical act that had little impact on her life. You are the one she chose. That's a pretty incredible honor to be throwing away in the times that you obsess about her past.

My wife is a nurse practicioner. Incredibly, I've seen guys who respond the same way you do just at the thought of her seeing and touching a patient's genitals. Maybe you can see that you are forcing yourself into a similar extreme position. You really have to learn to focus on the incredible things that go beyond her short encounters with other men. She is revealing her true self to you as your sex life matures. The other guys who slept with her got something that any random face and body can replace. They got nothing from her. Its only something significant if you make it so, from a religious point of view, because you are challenged by your faith to build something strong and everlasting with her.


----------



## chillymorn

cam44 said:


> Having 1 -- yes only 1 partner prior to marriage means that my wife was not a virgin. I wasn't either. That means we were promiscuous, that's just basic english (or is it my interpretation ?). I never said my wife was a **** before she met me ... i think compared to many women today I'd say she was relatively reserved -- but I'm not talking about comparing her to anyone else -- just my personal thoughts on this.
> 
> I get from the majority of responses that in today's society that we should just accept that men and women are going to have sex without being married. I'm not muslim and I'm not even a good christian, but I don't agree with that mindset. As a society we should at least strive for and recognize the behaviours that we were taught from God -- I think the basic 10 commandments apply to how we behave -- I'm not some brainwashed bible thumper, I'm just saying that this is 'ideal' -- and I know not everything in life is ideal. So what most people are saying is grow up, man up, suck it up, everyone has partners, its the past she loves you now -- ok I've heard your responses.
> I was aware of her past before I married my wife and I would still marry her again -- without hesistation -- and I know or I believe that we were meant to be together. I love her more virgin or not than I could ever love another woman. I'm just trying to get my head wrapped around what's causing this insecurity and just how to minimize this so it doesn't matter at all to me ... so the answer is to focus on the fact that she chose me ... focus on building our love for each other so that our intimacy is better and better -- better than anything we had before ... it sounds stupid but I really never thought that it could get better with time and our love for each other but that makes sense.


why did you marry her?

is she attractive to you?
is she a good wife since you been married?
do you get along and enjoy eachothers company?
is the sex good and as frequent as you would like?
do you trust her?

I would say if the answer is yes to thease questions then you should get some threapy for YOUR problem of not being able to let this go.


good luck if you answer yes be thankfull for a much better then average wife.


----------



## Stir Crazy

Cam,

Let me ask you this, did you have sexual partners before your (now) wife? 

Did you know that she had been with others before you married?


----------



## Stir Crazy

Should have asked, how old you both are?


----------



## norajane

cam44 said:


> Having 1 -- yes only 1 partner prior to marriage means that my wife was not a virgin. I wasn't either. That means we were promiscuous, that's just basic english (or is it my interpretation ?).


That is your interpretation of "promiscuous". There are few people who would share that interpretation with you.



> I get from the majority of responses that in today's society that we should just accept that men and women are going to have sex without being married. I'm not muslim and I'm not even a good christian, but I don't agree with that mindset. As a society we should at least strive for and recognize the behaviours that we were taught from God -- I think the basic 10 commandments apply to how we behave -- I'm not some brainwashed bible thumper, I'm just saying that this is 'ideal' -- and I know not everything in life is ideal.


It really doesn't matter what society should and shouldn't accept or should and shouldn't do. The only thing that matters is maintaining a close bond with your wife and creating a happy home for your children. The rest is irrelevant noise and will not change a thing about your present-day or future life with your wife. 

Sure, strive and recognize and try to live up to your ideals, but remember, people don't always succeed but God loves them anyway. Jesus didn't shun *****s, he welcomed them (NOT THAT YOUR WIFE IS IN ANY WAY a *****!!). Just sayin', get over yourself! 



> So what most people are saying is grow up, man up, suck it up, everyone has partners, its the past she loves you now -- ok I've heard your responses.


Yes, that is what we are saying. You have two children with your wife! Dude, those other guys mean nothing compared to that.



> I was aware of her past before I married my wife and I would still marry her again -- without hesistation -- and I know or I believe that we were meant to be together. I love her more virgin or not than I could ever love another woman.


THAT is what you should be reminding yourself every single time you start having your insecure thoughts. Every. single. time. Shut it down right when it starts - down wallow in your insecure thoughts.



> I'm just trying to get my head wrapped around what's causing this insecurity and just how to minimize this so it doesn't matter at all to me ... so the answer is to focus on the fact that she chose me ... focus on building our love for each other so that our intimacy is better and better -- better than anything we had before ... it sounds stupid but I really never thought that it could get better with time and our love for each other but that makes sense.


Of course it gets better. As your love grows over time, your emotional bonds deepen. Surely, you noticed that after your FIRST child, much less the second. :scratchhead:


----------



## Thor

cam44 said:


> Having 1 -- yes only 1 partner prior to marriage means that my wife was not a virgin. I wasn't either. That means we were promiscuous, that's just basic english (or is it my interpretation ?). I never said my wife was a **** before she met me ... i think compared to many women today I'd say she was relatively reserved -- but I'm not talking about comparing her to anyone else -- just my personal thoughts on this.


"Promiscuous" is an emotionally charged word with no good specific definition. Your wife was more sexually active than had she been a virgin. But less than probably the average 20 year old college girl today. So is the average college girl _promiscuous_? By whose standards? Might she be _reserved_ by other cultural standards from elsewhere?

So I think you should stop using that word. The emotional content is not productive.

Remember that you are not perfect. Nor is she. But you can learn and you can move forward.

You have every right to your view on this. It truly sounds to me like your problem is much more your own self image than your image of her. Look into No More Mr. Nice Guy and themarriagebed.com .


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

My husband never asked about my past, nor did I of he. What's in the past stays there. 

Your a being a bit hypocritical. I hope you don't hold this resentment towards your wife. That would be unfair to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thor

SimplyAmorous said:


> It is the MarriageBed.ORG


Thanks for the correction.

I think if he gives a balanced story that neither of them were virgins that he will get an honest discussion. Since he is talking about the past, and they are married now, I think it might be a good audience with similar values.

Will the tell him his wife is a wh0r3 and he should dump her? That isn't what I have seen there when people disclose their pasts as long as they indicate they are not currently in agreement with what they did.

They are very pro sex within marriage. Maybe that blinded me to the kind of reception he'd get.


----------



## Catherine602

Cam44
If your wife could do anything for you to make you accept her as a person, what would that be?

You are suffering so much being with her. How are you going to endure this over the long run. 

Would getting a divorce and finding someone who has your values about the sanctity of sex be the final solution? 

Do you ever feel sickened by what you did. You had sexual partners out side of marriage. Does that sicken you as well?

I think it is impossible for you to judge your wife's premarital behavior without judging yourself just as harshly. 

Have you explored the possibility that you may be projecting your guilt and self-disgust onto your wife? You may be punishing her as well as yourself. 

For all I see, you have a wonderful life, is there a reason you think you don't deserve to be content?

Another thing I find unusual in your post. The degree to which you think about the ex in terms of penis size, looking at their hands and feet etc. 

I am not sure that it is usual for men to think about another mans penis size when they meet? Does this bother you?


----------



## IAMCIV

Seriously, you are using the bible as a guide for marriage? Well then drag your lovely wife out to the streets and stone her to death, as is instructed in Deut 22: 20-21 regarding all women who are found not to be virgins on their wedding day.

What hypocrisy, your wife was with others before you, so were you, big deal. As you have to worry about her thinking about ex's so might she. You remind me of my chauvanistic father in law who told his wife, whom had a daughter prior to marriage, "I should have married someone pure." This coming from a man who has two kids from two different women prior ro meeting his wife. Come on seriously.

Get over it already.


----------



## Conrad

Catherine602 said:


> Cam44
> If your wife could do anything for you to make you accept her as a person, what would that be?
> 
> You are suffering so much being with her. How are you going to endure this over the long run.
> 
> Would getting a divorce and finding someone who has your values about the sanctity of sex be the final solution?
> 
> Do you ever feel sickened by what you did. You had sexual partners out side of marriage. Does that sicken you as well?
> 
> I think it is impossible for you to judge your wife's premarital behavior without judging yourself just as harshly.
> 
> Have you explored the possibility that you may be projecting your guilt and self-disgust onto your wife? You may be punishing her as well as yourself.
> 
> For all I see, you have a wonderful life, is there a reason you think you don't deserve to be content?
> 
> Another thing I find unusual in your post. The degree to which you think about the ex in terms of penis size, looking at their hands and feet etc.
> 
> I am not sure that it is usual for men to think about another mans penis size when they meet? Does this bother you?


Catherine,

I can safely say that I had never thought about the size of another man's penis. That is until my wife started telling me about the size of some of her ex's.

I didn't think that was very nice.


----------



## Catherine602

Conrad said:


> Catherine,
> 
> I can safely say that I had never thought about the size of another man's penis. That is until my wife started telling me about the size of some of her ex's.
> 
> I didn't think that was very nice.


My goodness not nice is not strong enough.

Every woman, I mean every woman knows that a man's penis is the center of his manhood. Women are very careful not to hit that low. Even an angry woman, women getting divorced, betrayed women, would not hit there. 

This is how I feel. I would have to hate all men to say something about one man's penis that I know would hurt him. 

It is almost a hard line that I would cringe to cross. If I could make myself cross it and tell a man about his penis relative to other mens, it would be a parting shot. Oh and It would also be a prelude to renouncing all penises for vaginas. :crazy:

I would certainly not be crazy or deluded enough to lay there beside him and expect him to love me anyway! :scratchhead:


----------



## lascarx

Conrad said:


> Catherine,
> 
> I can safely say that I had never thought about the size of another man's penis. That is until my wife started telling me about the size of some of her ex's.
> 
> I didn't think that was very nice.


Strange that she married you then, don't you think?


----------



## couple

You should be happy that she is able to be honest that she enjoyed the sex with others. Too often women are driven by their partners' (or perhaps just a natural shame thing in many) to talk about their past experience as 'mistakes'. Or even to repeat platitudes like 'the past is the past' that are supposed to make people feel better. People (yes, even women) enjoy casual sex. That's why they do it. It feels good. While it may not be comfortable for you at first, I suggest that you explore with her what she did with others and how it made her feel. Don't judge or make her feel bad for it but seek to understand her sexuality better. Sexuality is a very important aspect to who a person is. You need to understand your partner's sexuality better.

but be prepared to learn things that might be difficult for you, for example, 5 or 6 lovers is a 'safe' number often used by women who have had many more. Clearly it is not safe for you but since it's about average, it gets the point across that they've had significant experience but the number does not tend to shock in most circles. It's very common for women to 'adjust' down to 5 or 6.

If you can't come to terms with your wife's sexuality (her past is a strong part of who she is today) then you need to consider counselling or eventually perhaps parting ways. I do not agree with others who say that you just need to accept that the past is the past or try to forget about it. It is who she is and to have a truly intimate relationship, you need to understand and accept her sexuality.


----------



## Stonewall

Dude let it go. stop imagining the worst. Its the past its gone look to the present and future. You are holding that woman hostage to things she did before you and that is completely unfair. 

What or who my wife did before me doesn't bother me in the least. Why should I care, I'm the chosen one dude!


----------



## couple

SimplyAmorous said:


> I agree with you, for some it simply IS important, I don't feel these people need crucified for feeling this way, some feel cheated, feeling as though they've been robbed of something that should only belong to them, even if it happened a long time ago.
> 
> Though I still find it silly since he had partners too!! How can he judge it so harshly, seems to even the scale to me.
> 
> I also agree it is good she was honest about it ....nobody should feel the need to lie about their past or how they felt about it to save face, I wouldn't want that. Better to fully deal with the truth, understand it for what it was back THEN..... forgive it, then lay it to rest......never looking back.
> 
> Given his mental perception of this, he needs to go through a
> process of forgiveness .... because he views this as some kind of dagger in the heart as it was against him.
> 
> Here is an idea I read once, when someone is struggling with the past, how to let go.... I feel this would be a great healing ritual for both to engage in...to finally release these things...... Build a campfire together, each having a list of their partners on a peice of paper (yes his too!), kiss each other, hold each others hands & toss those in the fire... each watching them burn before them , ashes up & blown away with the wind.....ridding themselves of these histories...
> 
> Maybe his wife could agree to do this with him. And from there on, concentrate on the here & now, what you have together, take a vacation, Read a marraige book together. Old things are past, all things are new.


With respect, I think that the ritual that you suggest would be a sham. She enjoyed the sex with these other guys. She thought the sex acts were fun. Presumably, she has no regrets. These are GOOD MEMORIES for her. Obviously in the end he cannot control the memories that she holds or how she feels about them but to ask her to symbolically throw away her good memories is not fair to her. Further, her agreement to do this would imply that she agrees with him that these were shameful acts that are best forgotten. I'm guessing that she does not feel this way based on how she's talked about it. He has no right to force her to relegate her past choices to shameful things to be forgotten. Her past makes her what she is today and has formed her sexuality. 

If my wife asked me to symbolically throw away my memories of sex with others I would refuse on the grounds that these are great memories that I am not willing to throw away. I also know that she has some great memories of sex with others and i would not make her feel that these things are so shameful that she needs to pretend they never happened.


----------



## hookares

I think it's ludicrous for married people to be concerned with their SO's relationships previous to them meeting.
The ONLY thing that is of importance is what takes place after they are together.
(why would anybody not want their spouse to be considered attractive to others?)


----------



## cam44

hookares said:


> I think it's ludicrous for married people to be concerned with their SO's relationships previous to them meeting.
> The ONLY thing that is of importance is what takes place after they are together.
> (why would anybody not want their spouse to be considered attractive to others?)


having other men WANT my wife or find her attractive is somehow different than having had their penis inside of her ...


----------



## Randy52

This subject hits kinda close to home for me because my wife also has a past. But, rather than being bitter or insecure about it, I embrace it. We have both been married previously (she twice) and before we got seriously involved, we had some very frank and revealing conversations. She has been sexually active since age 14 and was especially promiscuous during her teens and again in her mid 20's after her 1st divorce. Some of these were serious relationships while several others were mostly for recreational purposes. She has had many more sexual partners than I have, but all of that was BEFORE we ever even met, and does not concern me (or her). 

The way I look at it, all of those experiences helped to make her the person and lover she is today. We have been together for 16 years, married for almost 11, and I could not be more proud that she is my wife.


----------



## cam44

Randy52 said:


> This subject hits kinda close to home for me because my wife also has a past. But, rather than being bitter or insecure about it, I embrace it. We have both been married previously (she twice) and before we got seriously involved, we had some very frank and revealing conversations. She has been sexually active since age 14 and was especially promiscuous during her teens and again in her mid 20's after her 1st divorce. Some of these were serious relationships while several others were mostly for recreational purposes. She has had many more sexual partners than I have, but all of that was BEFORE we ever even met, and does not concern me (or her).
> 
> The way I look at it, all of those experiences helped to make her the person and lover she is today. We have been together for 16 years, married for almost 11, and I could not be more proud that she is my wife.


thanks.
I do appreciate the replies. This has helped me allot more than any therapy just hearing what regular people think about it ...


----------



## couple

Randy52 said:


> This subject hits kinda close to home for me because my wife also has a past. But, rather than being bitter or insecure about it, I embrace it. We have both been married previously (she twice) and before we got seriously involved, we had some very frank and revealing conversations. She has been sexually active since age 14 and was especially promiscuous during her teens and again in her mid 20's after her 1st divorce. Some of these were serious relationships while several others were mostly for recreational purposes. She has had many more sexual partners than I have, but all of that was BEFORE we ever even met, and does not concern me (or her).
> 
> The way I look at it, all of those experiences helped to make her the person and lover she is today. We have been together for 16 years, married for almost 11, and I could not be more proud that she is my wife.


I look at it like you do. I also embrace it as an important part of who she is and how it formed her sexuality. Her feelings for her own past are complicated and my feelings toward it are also. All the memories are not great some are a little painful and some are great. I suppose this is similar to all memories in life.

Just like the other memories in her life, we have shared them and I have listened to how they made her feel. I'm her lover and her friend and it's important that I understand this very important part of who she is. Perhaps not for everyone but this is how we feel and we have become closer for it.


----------



## Randy52

Some of the responses in this thread have attempted to define the word "promiscuous." Just HOW MANY partners could someone have before being classified as "promiscuous;" One, Five, Ten, or 1 more than the person doing the defining???

I tend to take a philosophical attitude on this. It's like the Apollo astronauts who walked on the moon..... if you aren't Neil Armstrong, what does it matter whether you are Buzz Aldrin or Harrison Schmitt????


----------



## 5stringpicker

I hate to tell you this Cam, but its like my grandaddy used to tell me, "its about time you grow up and be a man, boy". Until you pull your head out of your azz and stop believing it devalues (and that's what you're doing) your woman because she enjoyed banging a few other guys before you came along, you will be living in hell and pain for the rest of your life." The human body, women included, is built to enjoy sex. Thanksgiving dinner with family is a ‘special’ ‘sacred’ and amazing thing. Having lunch with a friend is still fun. Some others got there before you did. Big deal. You should be glad they didn't come along after you. Hell, many of the guys on this site are married to women who were previously married and "dated" numerous guys before, in between (and sometimes during) the previous marriage. I don't think most of us sit around and ponder the sexual pleasure our wives experienced, the size of their lovers peckers, etc. We just don't give a damn. The way I look at it my twice married wife had husbands, boyfriends, intimate, special, amazing, sacred relationships, participated in a variety of sexual acts, had orgasms, etc., before I came along. She now has all those things with me.
In the final analysis, the only thing you can do about this is accept the fact that she is a normal woman who, like most women, enjoys sex and had a couple of partners before you came along--or get rid of her. As you grow older and hopefully wiser, you realize is like what my Uncle Olin used to say, "Ain't no shame in admitting you ain't the only one with a mule capable of plowing that field, boy". Quit worrying about who tasted the soup, and enjoy the meal before you.


----------



## 5stringpicker

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Is it safe to assume then that you were a virgin at 27 when you met your now wife?


Sounds like it to me. I think he's pissed because his wife has something to compare him to and can't reciprocate.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

Quote: I wasn’t a virgin when we married either and I regret that both of us didn’t save ourselves.

Per the above from the story he wasn't a virgin.

You need to understand that your wife has been fully faithful to you and does not want to relive the past, she may regret to that she did not wait for you but you cannot unring that bell and she does not want to condem what she did as being bad, you on the other hand do not wear the Hair-Shirt because you did not wait for her. You were aware prior to the marriage that your wife was not a virgin and she was aware that you were not a virgin. She has kept her vows to you. Get on with your life.

Take some time and read the Thread about Infidelity and see where a WS breaks those vows and the mental anguish it caused the OS. That is something that is indeed a life long problem of destroyed Trust, Triggers etc. 

You have a loving wife who is there for you.
Count your blessings.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

rrrbbbttt said:


> Quote: I wasn’t a virgin when we married either and I regret that both of us didn’t save ourselves.
> 
> Per the above from the story he wasn't a virgin.


I wasn't referring to the OP. He clearly showed his double standard. I was referring to the new guy who posted.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

To Therealbrighteyes:

Sorry it is sometimes difficult to keep it all straight with all the Thread jacking.


----------



## cam44

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I wasn't referring to the OP. He clearly showed his double standard. I was referring to the new guy who posted.


I said I too was NOT a virgin, which is something I also regretted -- read my original post -- is that a double standard?
Sounds like you have penis-envy like many of the other bra-burning feminists here ...


----------



## Deejo

Ladies ... gentlemen ...
please maintain decorum ... or face my unbridled wrath.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

cam44 said:


> I said I too was NOT a virgin, which is something I also regretted -- read my original post -- is that a double standard?
> Sounds like you have penis-envy like many of the other bra-burning feminists here ...


You're funny. :rofl:


----------



## Davy

Dont mean to confuse the thread but goes right along my line. Thank you for your interest in my problem. Let me give you more detail of my life. As I said in college and graduate school I never met a girl within my expectations ( at the time I had not even considered virgin-nonvirgin issue) I was realy into studying and had other priorities. Once entered professional school I became more realistic and I met my present wife. We had a good personality match and during the next three years we helped each other surviving school. Since she had told me her life story from the first day , it was always a nag in my head, but under circumstances we got along pretty good. Once out of school I always had a thought of leaving her but never came to decide it however from time to time I would become very cranky and fight with her, but we always reconciled. Again all these times I had other priorities and never gave my nagging thoughts major attention. When my Wife , at the time girlfriend ,told me she was pregnant I absolutely put these thoughts on the back burner and got married and raised my son with her like anybody else would do. But I was always grumpy and would not mentally get close to my wife . I think subconsciously I had put a distance between us so I can accept the situation and move on. I don’t think I loved her. Now recently, could be due to midlife crisis!!, I decided I cant go on like this, I wanted to love her so We have happy family for my son. This is when all these conflict came back to my head. Honestly I have no personality or behavior issue against her. Its Just my ego who does not want to accept her intimacy with other men in the past. I have managed to improve a lot, gifts, kisses, I love yous. But deep inside I still suffer with the jealous thoughts. Why wasn’t I her first? The guy who had her first, why should he have been so lucky? I don’t blame her aat al for enjoying her life at all. It’s the guys who took advantage kills me and raises my BP, I am extremely jealous. I am sure she never compares or even thinks about the past. But I cant stop the little voice talking in my head. If I could only accept and not hide like I did for many years. I would be very happy. Leaving is not even an option, I want to live with my family peacefully not to have to do cognitive therapy for the rest of my life,


----------



## 5stringpicker

Basically Dav, what you've gone and done is married a girl you, as you pointed out, never loved. The long and short of it is you married her only because you got her pregnant I'm a good bit older than you and believe me, marrying a virgin (no offense) is over rated. My first wife was, I loved her, but later lost that primarily because of her materialistic attitude and perpetual complaining about our lot in life. I also suffered from an Hawaiian disease known as lackanooky. My second wife was married twice before I came along, When I married her my Hawaiian disease was cured and I've never heard how much more I should be providing.
I still think you've got a problem with her having a little experience and you haven't. If the guy who was "so lucky" to have her first was all that, she'd stayed with the SOB.
Your self esteem problem goes well beyond what we're talking about here. Even if you left her and got so "lucky" as to find a virgin, you'd still have a problem.


----------



## RClawson

Dang I thought my head was messed up. Actually reading the posts of others here is making me feel much better about where I am at with this. 

I see a major gulf between my experience and most others that are trying to come to grips with this issue in some sane manner. My wife was intimate (and I mean emotionally and physically with one guy). This guy inadverdantly was responsible for us meeting. I did not know of their relationship until after I was married. 

When she knew I connected the dots she acted like it was no big deal (just a clinical thing?). Unfortunately because of family and friend dynamics we were running into him all the time. She deferred to him. It too years for her to get it through her head that I wanted no part of him in our lives. I will never forget the numb look on her face. 

If I did not know who it was or if it was a one nighter I could have cared less. This was just a bit to close to home and in my mind has always been lingering.


----------



## 5stringpicker

I don't know quite what you me by, "she deferred to him"


----------



## RClawson

5stringpicker said:


> I don't know quite what you me by, "she deferred to him"


Shortly after we were married, and I still had no clue he was "the one", he and his wife came over and we were giving them a tour of our place. We were in one of the rooms and he mocked something that was mine and my wife was falling all over herself to make sure he knew that it was my idea and not her's. I mean it was weird. It was obvious that what he thought was quite important to her.


----------



## 5stringpicker

I can understand where you're coming from. I don't know how long ago it happened, or to what extent. Folks (wives and husbands) make mistakes and, because of the circumstances, you may be judging it a little harsher than it was. If her ex-lover is in your face all the time that could be uncomfortable for a lot of guys.  At my age, I've come to realize, and this sound horrible but its true, spouses are easy to replace. And there are more good women out there than good men. So I don't worry about it. I'll love my wife forever. But if she screws up forever, I'll be gone.


----------



## dbc

i can relate to these stories in my own life. i met my wife when she was 16, and i was 20. we dated 6 months. i felt like she was the love of my life. i wanted to spend all my time with her. we attempted sex around five months into our relationship. she was a virgin, i was not. the day we attempted she was seventeen ,and i was twenty one. i entered her to her hymen, i looked up and noticed her crying . i ask what was wrong she replied " she was afraid of getting pregnant, what her mom would think of her." i pulled out, and that was the only time during the six months we attempted to have sex. we broke up about six weeks later, due to lies that was spread . at that time i was glad we did not have intercourse ,it would have left me with guilt. after we was broke up she kept trying to get back with me for the next three months. she gave me a card , got to me but i did not respond to her. we was broke up for eighteen months. during that time i dated no one. we got back together i called her up and ask her out. i pulled in to her drive way it felt like i was back were i belonged. after a couple of dates she told me she had been with somebody. i got to questioning her she had been with eight guys in fifteen month period. i was sick, my heart was ripped into. i broke up with her once and i was not going to breakup again . i felt like it would be throwing her back to the wolves. i loved her and did not want any other woman in the world. i felt we were made for each other, and that God had brought her into my life. with my past i felt like i did not deserve a virgin, but i was questioning God why did this happen to her, why her. it was and still has been very rough in me dealing with she was a virgin before we broke up , and was not when we got back together. during the time we was apart i had became a christian . i know that i was still in love with her inspite of all that happened while we was apart, and did not want to live my life without her. we dated for five months and got married , i made love to her for the first time the morning after we was married . i went into the airforce, we had to kids, raised a family. we have been married 29 years now. yes her past has bothered me,and a lot . this past year was real bad, i became depressed from thinking about it. i could not sleep ,eat, could not stop thinking about it. it has bothered me in the past but not like this past year, i guess around 10 years of marriage her past bothered me bad, but nothing like this past year. i got through it by not dwelling on my hurt , but by extending ,and practicing total forgiveness and unconditional love to her. which she deserves. over the years she will not talk about what happened , or details of that time we was apart. she tries to block it out of her mind and let it die. the only think she has said to me about her past is " i did a lot of things i wish i would not have done". this is my story , and i would still have married her again. i still feel like she is the only woman in the world for me, can not see being with anyone else. i love her.


----------



## norajane

> we have been married 29 years now. yes her past has bothered me,and a lot .


After 29 years of life together, you are still troubled by the (growing) experiences she had in her earlier years? Why do you think you have trouble accepting her life experiences? Since you've loved her all this time, it can't be about her, right? Or you'd have left her...it must be something within you that is vulnerable to this anxiety?


----------



## Goldmember357

Kobo said:


> Why the hell did you marry the woman? :scratchhead:


:iagree:

stuff blows my mind.

Sadly in TS case this often causes a lot of relationships to fail. Although mostly people know this stuff way way before marriage and decide how bad it bothers them.

Often leads one partner questioning and wondering what other people might be like. In this case the idea of other women and love pleasure you could have had with other women or could have. That is why i feel it is imperative that you weight how a person's past affects you and your morals and what you are getting at and hoping for in life. If you cant see eye to eye that is a huge problem along with inability to get past jealousy or the past a person may have had. Thus no skeletons in the closet should exist no secrets and you should than decide. No need to waste your time and the other person's time.


----------



## jnyu44

Well I am glad I came in here because I had the exact same issue. Funny thing is, as I read these posts I almost instantly grew up. I have a somewhat diverse set of lady friends from college (nerds, foreigners, girl next door, ****, lesbians, etc) and I knew most of them well enough to talk about sex with most of them. And let me tell you something....5-6 is child's play. You should be ECSTATIC if that is your wife's number. Sure, in my grad school courses, those girls had no partners on average. If you are anything like the guys who were in my courses, you would not think of this as a plus.

The fact of that matter is, you're going to think about it. But when you do, just train yourself to put it out of your mind. Tell yourself you're an idiot and that you're destroying a wonderful relationship because you are immature. 

If it helps, you can write out a list of why you don't think it matters. Whenever you think about it, you can whip out the list and go over it. I'll start out with a couple:

1. Everytime you sulk or poke and prod your wife, someone who you love dearly, you are hurting and insulting her over something really inane. Do you love her enough to put aside something that is your own problem? Remember it's not something you "forgive" her for. She doesn't owe you squat for what she did.

2. You should count yourself VERY lucky to be in love with an incredible woman. Do you have any idea how many guys are married to women (who were with 1-2 guys previously) who make them miserable (and vice versa)? You're complaining that the free bread that came with your $15 lobster soup, $20 salad, and $75 filet mignon was a little saltier than you like it.

Anyway I'm not gonna keep writing cuz I feel like I've been beating a dead horse. Hope this helped.


----------



## RClawson

The posts stating that carry these thoughts for so long are spot on and make a great deal of good sense. With my wife it was only one individual. I think it may have been easier if it was a half dozen. 

My problem is not fixating on them in the act. I got over that so many years ago. The problem is that there are many triggers that come up that indicate in still has a "significant" place in my wife's mind. 

Do I believe she would ever reach out to him even with all the social media and tech we have. Not worried a bit. I just think that she is somewhat sorry she made the wrong choice. I have been in IC for a couple of months and will be approaching this subject with my wife before my next session. Honestly I am relieved for it to be out on the table and I am ready to close the book.


----------



## Conrad

RClawson said:


> Shortly after we were married, and I still had no clue he was "the one", he and his wife came over and we were giving them a tour of our place. We were in one of the rooms and he mocked something that was mine and my wife was falling all over herself to make sure he knew that it was my idea and not her's. I mean it was weird. It was obvious that what he thought was quite important to her.


Now, for me, THIS would be a big deal.

Has she ever apologized for this?


----------



## RClawson

Conrad said:


> Now, for me, THIS would be a big deal.
> 
> Has she ever apologized for this?


You know Conrad it was a couple of decades ago. I was really in shock about what was happening as a newlywed. I think there was a bit of denial coupled with naivete'. My therapist has asked that I bring up these issues with her before our next meeting (in a couple weeks) and I am a bit anxious for many different reasons.


----------



## Thor

RClawson said:


> My problem is not fixating on them in the act. I got over that so many years ago. The problem is that there are many triggers that come up that indicate in still has a "significant" place in my wife's mind.


You both need to get this resolved. She needs to understand that he is not THE ONE, you are. A lot of experts say that there should be zero contact with previous sex partners, and I agree. In your case it makes even more sense that she not see him.

I bet there are a lot of anger and trust issues for you around this. You are finding out that she withheld important information from you. If you had known that this guy had been a lover before he came to your house, you could deal with it. But now after the fact it creates doubts and anger.

Your wife really should consider her actions and then honestly apologize to you.

There's no place for secrecy or lies in a marriage.


----------



## nxs450

I had this problem 12 years ago. I was on chemo for hep C. The chemo I was on messed with my thyroid, which in turn messed with my brain chemistry. I was suffering from major depression, anxiety, panic attacks, you name it.
I had just got my first computer and was on the internet when I got a email about penis enlargement. Basicly this set in motion a whole chain of events. Extreme obsesive compulsive thinking about my wifes past lovers, and a lot of other things.
It was hell for about 2 years. Getting off the chemo, and getting my head straightened back out. I did it so I know it can be done!


----------



## lovelygirl

cam44 said:


> having other men WANT my wife or find her attractive is somehow different than having had their penis inside of her ...


You had your penis inside another female in your past.
What if she complained about this??


----------



## Locard

Nothin like a good ole desiring a virginal bride thread to bring out the man shamers and white knights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is a reason men are resentful of womens past and the OP is NOT alone! And a correction. The bible IN NO WAY says to stone a woman who marries and is not a virgin, but only if she SAYS she is a virgin and is in fact not, AKA fraud. Why?, cause guys like virgins! 

SO, the problem here is the OP is married and knew his wifes past and still married her. Well, sorry to say, this is your cross to bear so to speak. You went in eyes wide open and need to not let this eff up your marriage. I will not shame you for you what you are feeling. If you can't deal with it on your own you need to get help, and ther is no shame in that. Best wishes.


----------



## Goldmember357

anotherguy said:


> Honestly - I have a hard time believing all this isnt a complete fabrication.
> 
> If it is not - I concur with the advice above to 'run not walk' to your therapist as your ONLY option. The twisted, hyperbolic magnitude of what you express far exceeds the utility of any advice you are going to get on an internet discussion forum or any self help blather you choose to read.
> 
> IMHO.


:iagree:

seems like a troll to me i have seen a very similar post exactly to what he described on here before that was posted along time ago in addition i have seen a very similar post on other websites forums.


----------



## Goldmember357

lovelygirl said:


> You had your penis inside another female in your past.
> What if she complained about this??


Exactly at times i wonder how women feel about that. Seeing how men typically have more sexual partners i imagine females accept this about men. I am sure the very thoughts men think occur with women more frequently "what if ___ has had better than me" 

stuff like that. 

I do not really feel sorry for OP because he KNEW ABOUT HER PAST BEFORE MARRIAGE and decided to marry anyhow. Me personally i believe you should know almost everything about the person you marry and when you are married nothing should be hidden. If you cant deal with there past than maybe you are NOT meant for each other. 



Locard said:


> Nothin like a good ole desiring a virginal bride thread to bring out the man shamers and white knights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> There is a reason men are resentful of womens past and the OP is NOT alone! And a correction. The bible IN NO WAY says to stone a woman who marries and is not a virgin, but only if she SAYS she is a virgin and is in fact not, AKA fraud. Why?, cause guys like virgins!
> 
> SO, the problem here is the OP is married and knew his wifes past and still married her. Well, sorry to say, this is your cross to bear so to speak. You went in eyes wide open and need to not let this eff up your marriage. I will not shame you for you what you are feeling. If you can't deal with it on your own you need to get help, and ther is no shame in that. Best wishes.



Exactly i could understand a spouse being hurt or wanting to divorce if they are married and than out of the blue they find out something there spouse never told them before and hid thus "Lied" before but never revealed it. In this case however OP knew what he was getting into and ignored it and that is a problem honestly this is not a healthy marriage both sides should accept each other and past and get along.

In addition OP wife only had 5 men total that is not a large number and his wife was not his first so i dont see where the jealousy in that sense comes from. He needs help


----------



## sarah2285

I had one partner before marriage and told my husband about it before we were married. He was very upset, but eventually calmed down about it. I thought everything would be okay. He claims that he has never been with anyone else (which seems like a lie to me, for many reasons). Anyways, since the day we got married. He's a nut, sort of like you. He did not want me to talk to any men, did not want me to refer to even a random guy when telling a story. He would always be snooping on my laptop asking who's email address it was or who I go to school with and sit down next to in class. 

Not only did it want me to just leave him, but it also made me hate him and feel attracted to other men. Not like I was in love with them, but I kept wondering how every guy I meet is normal except for my crazy husband.

Long story short, to make him happy I do not look, talk to, or even refer to any man. However, he also does not let it go. There is nothing but sleeping with another woman that would get me off the hook. He's cursed at me, called me the worst imaginable things, and even said that my blood is filthy and he's ashamed that Im the mother of his child.

After many fights, he's finally moved on. However, I cant even sit and watch a movie with him if it refers to a girl being a virgin or not.

It hurts. And if he brings it up one more time in our marriage, it will be over. 

So if you value your relationship, get over it or go find yourself someone who waited just for you.


----------



## RClawson

sarah2285 said:


> I had one partner before marriage and told my husband about it before we were married. He was very upset, but eventually calmed down about it. I thought everything would be okay. He claims that he has never been with anyone else (which seems like a lie to me, for many reasons). Anyways, since the day we got married. He's a nut, sort of like you. He did not want me to talk to any men, did not want me to refer to even a random guy when telling a story. He would always be snooping on my laptop asking who's email address it was or who I go to school with and sit down next to in class.
> 
> Not only did it want me to just leave him, but it also made me hate him and feel attracted to other men. Not like I was in love with them, but I kept wondering how every guy I meet is normal except for my crazy husband.
> 
> Long story short, to make him happy I do not look, talk to, or even refer to any man. However, he also does not let it go. There is nothing but sleeping with another woman that would get me off the hook. He's cursed at me, called me the worst imaginable things, and even said that my blood is filthy and he's ashamed that Im the mother of his child.
> 
> After many fights, he's finally moved on. However, I cant even sit and watch a movie with him if it refers to a girl being a virgin or not.
> 
> It hurts. And if he brings it up one more time in our marriage, it will be over.
> 
> So if you value your relationship, get over it or go find yourself someone who waited just for you.


Sarah, 

That is brutal and I feel truly feel for what you have endured. I actually am wondering why you do. I know that my triggers and my thoughts are not rational. I have been to counseling which has helped me cope much better. I think I would have been over this years ago if my wife did not have such a casual attitude about it and if we did not have so many connections to him and will have for the rest of our lives.


----------



## Catherine602

Clawson why is this man connected in any way in your life? Why can't you cut him out and insist your wife do the same. 

I think that this is very important to resolve with your wife what she did was wrong. However, I think she may feel guilty or maybe very bad about what she did and has difficulty facing it. 

It was a long time ago but it is not so long that it is not affecting you. So time does not matter. 

She may ask why you can't forget it. Have answer ready for her. She needs to see from your point of view and to atone for what she did. 

Does she treat you with respect now? Treat you like you are the most important man in her life. Go out of her way to make you happy? 

If she dismisses your pain then it is time for you to step back and give what you are getting. Change your focus. If she can not do this one important thing that will help you, then you have to rethink what you do for her.

Not talking about tit for tat but pulling in your emotional reserves and using them to heal.


----------



## Coffee Amore

sarah2285 said:


> I had one partner before marriage and told my husband about it before we were married. He was very upset, but eventually calmed down about it. I thought everything would be okay. He claims that he has never been with anyone else (which seems like a lie to me, for many reasons). Anyways, since the day we got married. He's a nut, sort of like you. He did not want me to talk to any men, did not want me to refer to even a random guy when telling a story. He would always be snooping on my laptop asking who's email address it was or who I go to school with and sit down next to in class.
> 
> Not only did it want me to just leave him, but it also made me hate him and feel attracted to other men. Not like I was in love with them, but I kept wondering how every guy I meet is normal except for my crazy husband.
> 
> Long story short, to make him happy I do not look, talk to, or even refer to any man. However, he also does not let it go. There is nothing but sleeping with another woman that would get me off the hook. He's cursed at me, called me the worst imaginable things, and even said that my blood is filthy and he's ashamed that Im the mother of his child.
> 
> After many fights, he's finally moved on. However, I cant even sit and watch a movie with him if it refers to a girl being a virgin or not.
> 
> It hurts. And if he brings it up one more time in our marriage, it will be over.
> 
> So if you value your relationship, get over it or go find yourself someone who waited just for you.


Your husband is verbally and emotionally abusive. Have a sexual partner before you got married in no way allows him to abuse you the way he has.


----------



## RClawson

Catherine, 

I appreciate your thoughtful reply. I think sometimes coming on this board exposes me to triggers that I could do without. I will respond in to your questions below.



Catherine602 said:


> Clawson why is this man connected in any way in your life? Why can't you cut him out and insist your wife do the same.
> 
> *One of his brothers married my wife's sister and the other brother is married to my wife's best friend. We have not seen him directly in years but I know my wife gets updates from her best friend and sometimes when we see his Mom are joint family events (my nieces and nephews are his as well). I do not see this ending until our lives end. The best part of our marriage was when we had to move out of state for my work and our contact was minimal with any of them. I have told her this recently and she gets it.
> *
> I think that this is very important to resolve with your wife what she did was wrong. However, I think she may feel guilty or maybe very bad about what she did and has difficulty facing it.
> 
> *We recently opened this discussion on advice from my therapist. My wife was rather shocked that I was still carrying this around after 2 decades. She did feel badly for me as well. She went on to explain how meeting me changed her life and while that felt good it does not eliminate a great deal of what I still feel (feelings = fickle). *
> 
> It was a long time ago but it is not so long that it is not affecting you. So time does not matter.
> 
> She may ask why you can't forget it. Have answer ready for her. She needs to see from your point of view and to atone for what she did.
> 
> *OK her is where it gets embarrassing for me. I read triggers into everything. For instance we were listening to her Ipod in the car one day and a song comes on from Rascal Flats (I never heard of them before we both dislike country) called "What Hurts The Most". I usually do not listen to lyrics but these were inside of my head like a sledgehammer. To me it pretty much described the turmoil of how their relationship ended. I have always felt that she married the safe guy but pines about the "what if" she could have had the bad boy. *
> 
> Does she treat you with respect now? Treat you like you are the most important man in her life. Go out of her way to make you happy?
> 
> *Damn this is the most loaded question I have ever been asked. I am trying to collect my thoughts but they are conflicted. I know she believes she does. I think she does sometimes. I can honestly say since she has become the main breadwinner that it is less than it used to be and there are times she has used that against me. My kids have asked me why she treats me the way she does at times. She does not have any guy she puts above me buy I think she gives more emotionally to her female colleagues and subordinates than she does me. For instance last Friday she went out with two of her close work friends to celebrate their birthdays. Left at 5 got home at 11. She said dinner lasted a couple of hours but then she spent 4 hours "catching up" with her walking buddy in the car before she came home. I thought to myself "Haven't you walked for 3 hours together this week already"? This is a sad thing because I know my wife could not talk to me 4 hours straight. I say all of this but she could say I was guilty of such things when we were first married and I was working my way up the ladder of the corporate world.
> *
> If she dismisses your pain then it is time for you to step back and give what you are getting. Change your focus. If she can not do this one important thing that will help you, then you have to rethink what you do for her.
> 
> *I truly agree here and have been thinking the same but need to commit. *
> 
> Not talking about tit for tat but pulling in your emotional reserves and using them to heal.


----------



## Aristotle

Every guy that has that special bond with your wife, is also now married and dealing with the fact that their wives also have a special bond with 5 other guys. In other words, they have their own issues and aren't sitting around masturbating to your wife.

Do you sit around thinking of your past girlfriends? If so, that is your problem. You are an extreme, an exception, most guys do not think like you at all. Unless all her ex's are like you, which I doubt, they have moved on. It seems like your idea of sex, you conquered and ruined all those women you have been with prior to them meeting their husbands. In your mind, you feel empowered over the husband. Now, the ex boyfriends that have been with your wife, you seem to think those guys think like you and "laugh" at foolish gullible husband who married some chick he had "fun" with? WTH? Do you laugh at the idea of one of your Ex's having a husband? Hopefully you do not think that way, if so, you are like the worst case scenerio for an ex boyfriend.

If I see a girl I had sex with walk by, it's almost like we never had sex. Maybe I am different but I live in the moment. I can barely remember the details and in a weeks time, she could be groomed 100% different. Her breasts could be bigger/smaller now, nipples grown and changed shape from having a kid, vagina thicker/smaller? So much changes take place on a woman, NO MAN HAS EVER BEEN WITH YOUR WIFE. They were with the girl she used to be, but physically, they have never been with her now. Has she gained weight? Did she have babies? Does she feel the same? After kids her hormones can change, her smells can change, her taste can change, attitude, and personality. You and her sleeping together each night mixes your bodies smells and makes your own unique flavor. No man knows what your wife feels like, smells like, or tastes like in present day, period. The only way they would know, is if she cheated. GET OVER IT. 

Even if my wife of 15 years stopped giving me sex tomorrow, I'd wonder what it was like to have sex with her. I wouldn't sit back and masturbate to the idea of how I conquered her and took her intimacy forever. I want to have sex again to explore her again. I want to see whats different, what feels different, what it smells like on that certain day......

Get over it man.


----------



## hookares

OP needs to be concerned with how his SO conducts herself since they have married. As far as spilling every little problem to a minister goes,The only people who can help you are the two of you.
The biggest waste of money dumped down the rat hole went for "our" church wedding and I later found out the soothsayer who performed the song and dance was nailing my "beloved" too after the wedding.


----------



## cam44

In today’s society we have such disregard for morality that most of the responses here simply reinforce what I expected – that we have come to a point where we simply normalize and accept sin, and are flabbergasted at those who don’t support disrespecting what God gave them. The truth is women (and men) are forced to move forward and carry on and make the best of their future marriage that they can after they’ve given themselves meaninglessly away – which is the case with the vast majority of people today, and posters here. Ask yourselves how meaningful it would have been to have saved this precious gift for your future mate – your partner/soul mate that you want to share true intimacy with for the rest of your life. What a huge waste and disappointment.
The only male creature in nature that does not mind another male having sex with his mate is the pig. Any man who truly does not mind that his wife has enjoyed being intimate with another man falls into this category. 
So all of the married couples who couldn’t save themselves for marriage try to give themselves what exactly on the night of their marriage? They have stated that they knew their future spouse would not be special enough or importance enough to pass up an orgasm with a stranger for. And with this as the basis for marriage, the vast majority end in divorce.
In order to move forward in my marriage I for one have had to completely re-evaluate what it is that I expect in a partner and my marriage. Since it can never be exclusive intimacy, I must be satisfied with my wife being the ultimate mother, the best friend, and the best partner I could have asked for, but unfortunately not someone that I can bond with as closely as God had intended us to.


----------



## yellowledbet

Nothing adds up in your thread. You are upset at your wife for doing the same thing you did. You are also mad at society for not following God's rules when you are admittedly 'not a good Christian'. :scratchhead:


----------



## Lyris

cam44 said:


> In today’s society we have such disregard for morality that most of the responses here simply reinforce what I expected – that we have come to a point where we simply normalize and accept sin, and are flabbergasted at those who don’t support disrespecting what God gave them. The truth is women (and men) are forced to move forward and carry on and make the best of their future marriage that they can after they’ve given themselves meaninglessly away – which is the case with the vast majority of people today, and posters here. Ask yourselves how meaningful it would have been to have saved this precious gift for your future mate – your partner/soul mate that you want to share true intimacy with for the rest of your life. What a huge waste and disappointment.
> *The only male creature in nature that does not mind another male having sex with his mate is the pig.* Any man who truly does not mind that his wife has enjoyed being intimate with another man falls into this category.
> So all of the married couples who couldn’t save themselves for marriage try to give themselves what exactly on the night of their marriage? They have stated that they knew their future spouse would not be special enough or importance enough to pass up an orgasm with a stranger for. And with this as the basis for marriage, the vast majority end in divorce.
> In order to move forward in my marriage I for one have had to completely re-evaluate what it is that I expect in a partner and my marriage. Since it can never be exclusive intimacy, I must be satisfied with my wife being the ultimate mother, the best friend, and the best partner I could have asked for, but unfortunately not someone that I can bond with as closely as God had intended us to.


Do you have any evidence for this? No? Thought not, as it is ridiculous nonsense.

And what do you mean, orgasm with a stranger? Lots of people, the majority of people. who get married in their 20s and 30s have had more than one relationship. Relationship, often with someone they loved but who they didn't marry for a variety of reasons. That's not a stranger, that's loving more than one person. 

I feel bad for your wife.


----------



## RandomDude

Both my wife and I have had more partners than either of us can count, my wife most certainly having had more. Yet I was the first man she ever felt intimate with. Now she isn't my first love, but if I look back, never had I ever felt more intimate with anyone else then her - so in a way, she still is my first love.

The availability of intimacy in a relationship is not something determined by someone's past. That is a fact, why don't you just accept it? You have a wife that loves you, the thought of other guys repulses her just as much as it repulses you, so why bring it up? Why make it an issue? Leave the past buried where it belongs.


----------



## WyshIknew

Hey dude!

Maybe it was part of Gods plan to test you by making your wife have wild monkey sex with a bunch of guys.

Sounds like you're failing the test.

Oink.


----------



## Cosmos

cam44 said:


> The only male creature in nature that does not mind another male having sex with his mate is the pig. Any man who truly does not mind that his wife has enjoyed being intimate with another man falls into this category.


Why do you make this gender specific? Is a woman a pig if she sleeps with a man who has previously slept with another woman?

If a man insists on marrying a virgin, he has every right to do so - _providing he's held himself to the same high standard._ If not, he has no right to expect to play Star Trek on his wedding night.


----------



## RandomDude

> Since it can never be exclusive intimacy, I must be satisfied with my wife being the ultimate mother, the best friend, and the best partner I could have asked for, but unfortunately not someone that I can bond with as closely as God had intended us to.


Whether or not you bond closely with your wife right now is your CHOICE. If you want to let the past dictate your present, then go ahead, you ask yourself truly why God put you two together, you are being tested, your faith, your insecurities. He has given you a gift, a loving wife and wonderful mother for your children. You are refusing to love her simply because of her past. What does the bible say about husbands loving their wives?

Sheez, I'm not even Christian


----------



## DavidWYoung

Five?Sorry ,but that is really not a large number of sex partners to worry about. There is something else that you are worried about in you. I will bet that she can not remember what they liked like. What is the real problem that you want to address?


----------



## Phenix70

cam44 said:


> In today’s society we have such disregard for morality that most of the responses here simply reinforce what I expected – that we have come to a point where we simply normalize and accept sin, and are flabbergasted at those who don’t support disrespecting what God gave them. The truth is women (and men) are forced to move forward and carry on and make the best of their future marriage that they can after they’ve given themselves meaninglessly away – which is the case with the vast majority of people today, and posters here. Ask yourselves how meaningful it would have been to have saved this precious gift for your future mate – your partner/soul mate that you want to share true intimacy with for the rest of your life. What a huge waste and disappointment.
> The only male creature in nature that does not mind another male having sex with his mate is the pig. Any man who truly does not mind that his wife has enjoyed being intimate with another man falls into this category.
> So all of the married couples who couldn’t save themselves for marriage try to give themselves what exactly on the night of their marriage? They have stated that they knew their future spouse would not be special enough or importance enough to pass up an orgasm with a stranger for. And with this as the basis for marriage, the vast majority end in divorce.
> In order to move forward in my marriage I for one have had to completely re-evaluate what it is that I expect in a partner and my marriage. Since it can never be exclusive intimacy, I must be satisfied with my wife being the ultimate mother, the best friend, and the best partner I could have asked for, but unfortunately not someone that I can bond with as closely as God had intended us to.


So why weren't you a virgin when you got married?
Did you not want to also share in that scared bond with your wife in that you had also forsaken all others before her?
Or are you one of those cafeteria Christians, the ones who pick & chose what Biblical theories to apply to their situation?


----------



## lovelygirl

DavidWYoung said:


> Five?Sorry ,but that is really not a large number of sex partners to worry about.


The number is relative. To some this is a large number, to some others it isn't.
It's all about point of view.

To me that's a large number.


----------

