# Trying so hard,but.......



## FrancisM (Jun 15, 2013)

We're 3 years into our marriage in March and I fear that I believe I'm still married for 3 reasons:

1. Friends and others convince me women are all the same, so there's no point divorcing to find another one.

2. I'm 49 in May and want kids whilst the clock is ticking.

3. I do love her, however we're on a literally constant roller coaster of arguments every 3-7 days, and then enjoying each other's company. Sex is rare however as a combination of us both being very busy, and the arguments, take their toll.

My parents endless love and respect for each other, meant that my childhood home was almost conflict free. I want this so much, however it seems like an impossible dream now.

My marriage could not be more of a contrast. I go to sleep so dreadfully unhappy at least once per week, and I fear what my wife's emotional roller coaster would be like with children in the home.

So it's 50% having fun and enjoying each other's company, and 50% evolving into deep resentment, bordering on contempt, and unhappiness for us both.

Her parents have been seeing a counsellor, on and off, for 35 years and imply that it's all part of the course, her mother jokes that people marry so that they have someone to argue with.

Surely it can't be this bad for everyone, I've locked myself in the bathroom to write this, the wife's yelling demands at me through the door every several minutes; demanding that I tell her that I'm the love of her life, 4-5 times so far.

My mind is repeatedly torn between divorce and wanting kids, however if marriage is always 50% pleasure and 50% pain, then there's no point trying a second time.

I am so lost, with no one to talk through this with. We were making inroads with a counsellor, before she refused to see her anymore.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

No, your in a unhealthy relationship with someone who grew up in an unstable household, and she learn to be that way. Also, that is saying all men are lazy when it comes to emotional support, and housework. Was your mother like this? From the sound of it no. Generally, given how someone is raised, is how they will turn out in a relationship. During the infatuation stage, she was simply on her best behavior. You gave each other your best in the beginning. When those magical chemicals wear out, you get a more true sense of who they really are. Plus, you grew up in a stable environment, so you do not know how to handle this. You were not taught the tools to deal with someone of her nature. It could work if you level consequences, and she seeks help on her own end. Perhaps you can find a therapist to help you give you the tools to succeed. If not, then give you the strength to leave.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She is NOT normal and you should NOT be having arguments like that. Maybe once every 3-6 months. Get out now.


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## Observer (Aug 23, 2011)

turnera said:


> She is NOT normal and you should NOT be having arguments like that. Maybe once every 3-6 months. Get out now.


Concur...and you want kids at 49?? Brave, brave man.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

FrancisM said:


> We're 3 years into our marriage in March and I fear that I believe I'm still married for 3 reasons:


I am confused. You are married or not?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Nevermind my last post.



FrancisM said:


> Surely it can't be this bad for everyone, I've locked myself in the bathroom to write this, the wife's yelling demands at me through the door every several minutes; demanding that I tell her that I'm the love of her life, 4-5 times so far.


Weird.

Tell her how you feel. That this fighting 50% of at the time is lame and stupid and making you consider divorce. Be honest. Work on healthy communication.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

turnera said:


> She is NOT normal and you should NOT be having arguments like that. Maybe once every 3-6 months. Get out now.


Don't have children with her. It will only cause more stress and kids shouldn't have to live in such a chaotic situation. What do you both argue so much about? Why is she so emotional? What does she do that causes you to be unhappy?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And why are you _participating_ in the arguments? You know you do have control over that, right?


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

There could be a lot of things going on here. Are you both in MC to help start to address this?

Her wanting to know frequently that she's the love of your life makes me question if you are meeting her love needs? You might consider reading "The Five Love Languages" as I bet that could be a big help for you. It's a super short read but can help you understand your spouse a lot better and offers an extremely simple method for improving your relationship. Just a suggestion!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Don't bring children into that situation.


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## FrancisM (Jun 15, 2013)

Observer said:


> Concur...and you want kids at 49?? Brave, brave man.


I appreciate your comment, however "kids at 49" are nothing! Literally, nothing. In fact kids at any age are one of life's blessings. Having been through parental health issues, resulting in my mother being in a nursing home and ultimately losing my dad, I'm tired of hearing of the difficulties of children and babies in particular; nappies, screaming, sleepless nights, teenagers, 24 hour job..... Boo hoo, I won't go into too much detail, but these people haven't lived. Wait until theyre confronted with nursing homes, staying at the parents with dad getting up and passing out every second night until he has a pacemaker implanted, or medications almost killing them or possibly leading to their remaining years in a psyche ward not knowing what planet they're on. Children and babies, unless they are seriously ill or die, are nothing, in fact it's pleasure all the way. I hope this post is not too graphic for some, I've actually left out the worst of what I've seen others experience with their parents in nursing homes, psyche wards and hospitals, and indeed the worst of what I've experienced myself, so please don't tell me I'm brave to want kids at 49, it's no less than a gift from God from any perspective.


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## FrancisM (Jun 15, 2013)

Openminded said:


> Don't bring children into that situation.


That's why we don't have any kids yet. Something either changes, and I'm not just relying on hope, or we both move on.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

All women are not the same (your "friends" are idiots). This one in particular is broken. You can do MUCH better.


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## FrancisM (Jun 15, 2013)

turnera said:


> And why are you _participating_ in the arguments? You know you do have control over that, right?


No I don't have control over someone else wanting to continue for hours and hours. I'm not going to leave the house, that will achieve nothing. We either face up to life's challenges and stare them down, so to speak, or we walk away. If we walk away from every challenge, we will have no life left, that's worth having.

You are right to an extent though, my reactions guide the direction the situation takes and I've caused positive change in her as a result.


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## FrancisM (Jun 15, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> All women are not the same (your "friends" are idiots). This one in particular is broken. You can do MUCH better.


I want to agree, however we can't deny that the average divorce rate across most "western" countries is around 60% whilst about 70-80% of divorces are initiated by women. This suggests that guys cause most problems, or else that women can't control their emotions and walk.

My wife's dad is certainly 'broken', I know that as a first hand fact and obviously his behavior has been 'taught' to his kids.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

FrancisM said:


> I appreciate your comment, however "kids at 49" are nothing! Literally, nothing. In fact kids at any age are one of life's blessings. Having been through parental health issues, resulting in my mother being in a nursing home and ultimately losing my dad, I'm tired of hearing of the difficulties of children and babies in particular; nappies, screaming, sleepless nights, teenagers, 24 hour job..... Boo hoo, I won't go into too much detail, but these people haven't lived. Wait until theyre confronted with nursing homes, staying at the parents with dad getting up and passing out every second night until he has a pacemaker implanted, or medications almost killing them or possibly leading to their remaining years in a psyche ward not knowing what planet they're on. Children and babies, unless they are seriously ill or die, are nothing, in fact it's pleasure all the way. I hope this post is not too graphic for some, I've actually left out the worst of what I've seen others experience with their parents in nursing homes, psyche wards and hospitals, and indeed the worst of what I've experienced myself, so please don't tell me I'm brave to want kids at 49, it's no less than a gift from God from any perspective.


I was actually more concerned about you having a child and then leaving him fatherless because you can't live long enough to be around for him...or because you'll have your own health problems and your child will be pushing YOU around in a wheelchair. 

Now, if you're rich, and you can afford to hire nannies and such, great. But the kid may still be missing out on the regular aspects of fatherhood/childhood. Or not having you there when he graduates college, or starts a family of his own. 

I'm not saying it will happen, but you have to at least accept the possibility. And unless you're marrying someone 20 years younger than you, the odds of the fertilized eggs being healthy with both of you being at the end of your reproductive cycles are just increasing. 

Have you considered adopting? That would be a great jumpstart on the age aspect and give some poor parentless kid a chance at a good life.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

FrancisM said:


> No I don't have control over someone else wanting to continue for hours and hours. I'm not going to leave the house, that will achieve nothing.


No, you'll just lock yourself in your bathroom and wait her out. 

Actually, the professionals - therapists - will TELL you to leave the house whenever she starts raging at you. It's called a consequence and it's the only way she can learn to STOP.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

When I read that your friends had convinced you that all women were the same I thought "under 25".

By 49, you really ought to've figured out that they aren't all the same,, or even that no 2 are the same.

You're either the butt of your friends' joke or as daft as they are,,, unless you live in a secret zone of cloned Stepford wives.

Let me know when they have a sale on pretty brunettes.

Time you BOTH learned to act your ages. You're playing teen mind games and you're not even playing them very well.

People of ANY age who scream at each other through doors shouldn't have children. Problems aren't solved by an accumulation of immaturity.

I'll bow out now cuz I doubt I can overcome the influence of the collective wisdom of your mates.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FrancisM (Jun 15, 2013)

Well, we're still together. Looking at this over the course of this year, it is becoming clear that mood swings are a huge issue. One moment she's happy and all over me and the next she can be miserable, quiet or somewhat verbally aggressive in a low key sort of way.

It's not PMS related, it can occur at any time. When her mood turns, it can last several minutes or an entire day. If an argument develops she will escalate and escalate seemingly oblivious to her behavior and requiring me to change track for the pair of us.

As for me, someone above mentioned her love needs, well in this area I am a big fail. Her aggression is a massive turn off for me, after an attack I simply do not feel like making lover for weeks and by then she may have been aggressive once more and so we're lucky to make love about 4 times in a year - thus, no kids.

I see conflict in the marriages of friends and family members from time to time and yet they appear to make it all work. Despite my wife and I being relatively intelligent people, we just seem to lower our behavior to that of children on a regular basis.

Someone above said "And why are you participating in the arguments? You know you do have control over that, right?" However is ignoring the behavior of a spouse a valid solution?

Another post above, referred to MC's suggesting leaving the house. We did receive this advice actually. Perhaps these two pieces of advice can work i.e. don't engage and leave the house. It will become pretty cleart after even just 2-3 occasions whether this is bringing the required change... in both of us. Hmm, I guess I'm thinking aloud here....


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You ignore the bad behavior by removing yourself from the situation. Whether that means walking into another room for 20 minutes, or going for a 2-hour drive, the effect is the same: "You mistreat me, you lose me."

Why are YOU lowering YOUR behavior?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

OP there is a member Uptown who may be able to help you figure out what is going on with your wife. She may have a psychological disorder. You won't be able to tell until she sees an MD for an evaluation but you will at lest have possibility. Knowing what you may be dealing with may help you and her to deal more effectively. 

You probably know women are not all the same. At the same time, you know that it takes time to find the right one for you. I have a feeling that you made do with this woman because you did not have faith that your would find someone more suitable. 

Age and having children is certainly a concern. I would be more concerned that your relationship is too unstable to risk having children. You cannot bring them into this situation. You can D and give yourself 6 month to recover and then start dating again.


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## FrancisM (Jun 15, 2013)

turnera said:


> You ignore the bad behavior by removing yourself from the situation. Whether that means walking into another room for 20 minutes, or going for a 2-hour drive, the effect is the same: "You mistreat me, you lose me."
> 
> Why are YOU lowering YOUR behavior?


Yes, I am certain that this is the answer. I don't know why I'm lowering myself to her level.

The first time I'll leave the room, the next the house for 1 hour, then 2 hours, then 3...

The penny must drop at some point and if it doesn't then there will clearly be but one solution.

Thank you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Perfect.


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## FrancisM (Jun 15, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> OP there is a member Uptown who may be able to help you figure out what is going on with your wife. She may have a psychological disorder. You won't be able to tell until she sees an MD for an evaluation but you will at lest have possibility. Knowing what you may be dealing with may help you and her to deal more effectively.
> 
> I read your first post and I wanted cot take issue with some of the reason you had for staying in the marriage. You probably know women are not all the same. At the same time, you know that it takes time to find the right one for you. I have a feeling that you made do with this woman because you did not have faith that your would find someone more suitable.
> 
> ...


My wife and I actually have a lot in common, however she has clearly inherited, or learnt, her fathers aggressive nature. He is known by some members of his wife's family as "the monster". He will attack and explode over next to nothing and go on for hours, it's a miracle they had children and are still together after about 45 years. For decades now, my mother-in-law simply leaves the room when he attacks.

My wife is however more reasonable than her father, her outbursts are over equally trivial things, however they are less frequent and more controlled than her fathers. I will proceed to leave the room and or home from now on, this strategy is worth a try and it will be very clear if it is going to induce change after only a couple of months or so. I believe that she is capable of learning, if the circumstances warrant it.


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## FrancisM (Jun 15, 2013)

Can I also add that across the US/UK/Western World/OECD/G20 or whatever, that the divorce rate is 60% plus, as of the late 20th century.

Without even raising religion, I believe that we all have a duty to society, and our families, to do all that we can to make a marriage work.

Otherwise, what happens to us all, and the children, if the divorce rate climbs to 70%+?

In my family alone, I have no siblings, however out of 6 1st cousins, 4 have been through divorce. How appalling is that?


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## lurky.lou (Aug 31, 2015)

Not trying to be rude, but if you wanted marriage and children why didn't you start earlier?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

FrancisM said:


> Can I also add that across the US/UK/Western World/OECD/G20 or whatever, that the divorce rate is 60% plus, as of the late 20th century.
> 
> Without even raising religion, I believe that we all have a duty to society, and our families, to do all that we can to make a marriage work.
> 
> ...


You have an even higher duty, to only bring children into a healthy family environment. If your wife was adversely effected by a volatile father then any children you bring into the world with this woman will be as unstable. 

I really don't see what D stats have to do with anything in your personal life. You made a mistake, adding one more D to the tally will not matter to anyone but you. That's who is important in this. 

May I assume you have given up the desire to have children since you seem so determined to stay with your wife?


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## FrancisM (Jun 15, 2013)

lurky.lou said:


> Not trying to be rude, but if you wanted marriage and children why didn't you start earlier?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My father had me at 39, he was too busy traveling the world etc to settle down. It appears that I've followed in his footsteps, however I've pushed my luck much further at 49 now.

Right or wrong, I've had other priorities in life until now.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Francis, is there a big age difference between you and your wife? i.e. is your wife 20's or 30's. You ae obviously a mature and settled man, many young women are not and will have demands that are probably alien to you as someone near 50.

Walking away is usually a good response to anger but I wonder if you are actually listening and taking on board what your wife is saying. A man who gets married at 46 will usually be settled in his ways after so many years of bachelorhood and probably knows very little about 'living' with someone else never mind a wife. I think it is time you stepped back to see your role in all of the arguments. She may well be frustrated by your lack of engagement or care/consideration for her point of view. You may well be adopting a role of being the older and wiser one with no time for her theatrics (comes out in your writing) but to her this is downright dismissive of her needs and wants.

In short you need some help with communication. Go to a good marriage counsellor and focus on this. If she grew up in a home of anger some of her behaviour is probably learned and also needs to be dealt with in IC.


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## lurky.lou (Aug 31, 2015)

I am assuming that if you really wanted children, then you would have been much more deliberate about it. 

Did you know that after 35 women experience high-risk pregnancies? Did you know the medical term is geriatric? 

I have 2 perfect children, and I am done. Birthed at 23 and 29. I met my husband at 18. We got married the summer after I finished college. We had our first child at 23. Come to think of it that first son made my 49 year old father a 3x grandfather. 

I'm not saying your choices are wrong, but they are your choices.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lurky.lou (Aug 31, 2015)

Why did your priorities change? Did you have a biological change like a 35 year old woman?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FrancisM (Jun 15, 2013)

Well, these past several months, my wife and I (mostly myself) have been working extremely hard to reduce conflicts, with myself often simply saying "I refuse to argue with you." and walking away or simply ignoring any argumentative statements. This has worked well, the argument that I am simply not going to engage does work, both preventing an argument and implying that the argument is unnecessary or simply not worth it.

However, there has been an unforeseen consequence. On Occassion, my wife will not accept, not arguing and seek to demand an apology etc by saying something that I can only describe as vicious, from my perspective at least. This morning for example, she demanded "over your parents dead bodies, you promise...". 

I lost my dear mum in August, and my equally dear father in 2009. I cannot describe the hurt I experience whilst simultaneously being reminded of my severe grief in the midst of an unreasonable bout of aggression by my wife with whom I hope to start a family.

Even a year or two, before my mother passed, my wife on occasion would say "your mother will be buried soon and we have to focus on our lives..." etc etc.

I know arguments come and go in marriage, or any other type of relationship between people, however I now realize that there is a fine line between arguing and viciousness. Or am I being unrealistic here, do married couples, say and do anything in the heat of an argument, is blatant viciousness during these times common? Are people really capable of plumbing these depths with their partners? In my ideal world, on the worst of enemies behave this way.

Even if it is common, I guess it comes down to what we will, or can, accept as individuals?

I try and I try and I try, however it would appear that either I married the wrong person, or else that the 'trials and tribulations ' of marriage are not for me.

My first thought is to try counseling once more (we have had about 6 sessions over 3 years), however a counseling cannot do anything to change what may be one persons nature, or ones perspective on what is unacceptable behavior.

I am starting to believe that I am a imbecile for accepting this behavior from anyone, let alone my wife?

Or am I a fool for being an idealist, and do I need to just learn to roll with the punches of the reality of marriage? (I do however, personally struggle to accept that this is how life and marriage is, generally speaking).


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And you are married to this coldhearted person...why?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

FrancisM said:


> I am starting to believe that I am a imbecile for accepting this behavior from anyone, let alone my wife?
> 
> Or am I a fool for being an idealist, and do I need to just learn to roll with the punches of the reality of marriage? (I do however, personally struggle to accept that this is how life and marriage is, generally speaking).


Not an imbecile, more of a naive principled person with poor judgement and boundaries. People like you are easy to take advantage of and mistreat. It does not need to be that way, it's your choice. 

You have been trying to make this work for how many years now? The puny progress you have made so far is good but at that glacial pace, you will be ready to have children when you're 70, maybe. 

Why can't you cut your losses and get out of this? You think there is no better woman out there for you? There is no better woman as long as you stay with your wife. Let this go and have faith that there is someone better suited for you.


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## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

she sounds evil. You would know better than us, but from what you post here, she sounds evil.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Observer said:


> Concur...and you want kids at 49?? Brave, brave man.


:iagree:

You will be about 70 yo when the first one graduates high school, if still alive.


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