# Making a Move on Dates



## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Guys are often told that you need to act sexual. If you don’t, she will think of you as a friend...

So, let’s say you are dating a guy and you’re probably going to have sex around date 8. At what point should the guy try to initiate sex, even if you are going to decline? At what point should he kiss you?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Eighth date???!!! Wow, are there many people that wait that long?

In my experience, women were often up for sex at the end of the first date with the rest waiting for the second or third date. As to initiation, women were the ones who often did the initiating in the first place since they would seldom wait. While one questioned if I was interested at all, when I didn't initiate at the end of a first date (moments later we then started having sex).

As to when to initiate, I find the time is right, when the air feels like it's buzzing and thick. You feel an intense sexual connection and the way they kiss you shows they're lost in lust for you.

It's hard to describe, yet there just seems to be a very noticeable difference between them just enjoying kissing. Versus being a wild lustful animal that wants to consume you and be consumed.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Personal said:


> Eighth date???!!! Wow, are there many people that wait that long?


In the 70s - early 90s there was the “three date rule.” A chaste woman would make a man wait until the third date to prove she’s not a ****. However, according to a Groupon survey, things are more conservative now - at least among the Millenials and Gen Z:

“According to the results, the three-date rule is becoming a thing of the past with most people waiting an average of eight dates before they have sex, with women waiting nine compared to five for men. And while men were nine times more likely to be ok with sleeping together on the first date, just 30 percent of men and 8 percent of women think sex should happen inside the first three dates.“

https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...-date-Rule-Groupon-Dating-Trends-Survey-Finds

But regardless of the number of dates, you want to make it clear that you want sex even if it’s too early.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Cool I'm Gen X, so I don't need to wait.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

I think it is a delicate balance. The guy I'm dating now did not even kiss me until the 5th date and that was a pretty chaste kiss. I had started to think he wasn't interested in anything more than friendship until that kiss, which I would have been disappointed with but still would have taken friendship if that's all he could offer. Later, when we were more comfortable with each other I asked why he waited so long. He said he waited until he was sure we were headed somewhere, that we were compatible, that I was someone he'd want to start a real relationship with before getting physical. He had also been seeing a couple other women, also in the very early stages, and he wanted to be honest and done with them before getting physical in any way with me. Which is actually a good thing. But, at the time it left me feeling like he wasn't interested in me in that way. I would not have been happy to find out he'd been sleeping with those other women while starting to date me but if all he'd done was kiss them and kiss me I'd be fine. I did end up being the one he felt the most connection with afterall :smile2:

So, I can see how women would need something to let them know the physical attraction is there but that a guy is just being a gentleman.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

I have only once had a girlfriend who I didn’t have sex with by the third date. 
And I married her.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Andy1001 said:


> I have only once had a girlfriend who I didn’t have sex with by the third date.
> And I married her.


And does that fact enter into why you ended up marrying her or is that just a coincidence?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

When I’m dating someone new, if it goes beyond the first date, we will already be discussing sex and preferences. We will have already made out so that I know he’s good at that part at least (or he may not enjoy it either and we both have the choice of whether to continue or not). We discuss exclusivity. Then if all that lines up we discuss when and where will be the first time. There’s no “making a move” on me. Sex is a mutual event, not something he “gets” from me.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> I have only once had a girlfriend who I didn’t have sex with by the third date.
> 
> And I married her.



So? Have you done it yet? Or still waiting? 
I think we waited about 8 months. Until it was legal (for me, she was still under age).


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

notmyjamie said:


> I think it is a delicate balance. The guy I'm dating now did not even kiss me until the 5th date and that was a pretty chaste kiss. I had started to think he wasn't interested in anything more than friendship until that kiss, which I would have been disappointed with but still would have taken friendship if that's all he could offer. Later, when we were more comfortable with each other I asked why he waited so long. He said he waited until he was sure we were headed somewhere, that we were compatible, that I was someone he'd want to start a real relationship with before getting physical. He had also been seeing a couple other women, also in the very early stages, and he wanted to be honest and done with them before getting physical in any way with me. Which is actually a good thing. But, at the time it left me feeling like he wasn't interested in me in that way. I would not have been happy to find out he'd been sleeping with those other women while starting to date me but if all he'd done was kiss them and kiss me I'd be fine. I did end up being the one he felt the most connection with afterall :smile2:
> 
> 
> 
> So, I can see how women would need something to let them know the physical attraction is there but that a guy is just being a gentleman.



How does this work: does a woman at some point during the date suddenly decides “I think I am going to let this guy **** me”. Or is this a bit more subtle?
It’s interesting because the guy is (usually) like the river and the woman is the dam that holds it back....At some point or another she decides when she will open the gates and he is allowed to ‘flood’ her. And it must be a conscious decision and not a ’go with the flow’ type of thing, right?


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

InMyPrime said:


> How does this work: does a woman at some point during the date suddenly decides “I think I am going to let this guy **** me”. Or is this a bit more subtle?
> It’s interesting because the guy is (usually) like the river and the woman is the dam that holds it back....At some point or another she decides when she will open the gates and he is allowed to ‘flood’ her. And it must be a conscious decision and not a ’go with the flow’ type of thing, right?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would imagine it's different for everybody. I've heard some women say they plan to have sex before the date even starts. I've had others say "no way, not until xy or z is in place will I have sex with him" and then later tell me they ended up sleeping with the guy. And some have very strict rules they follow to a T. 

Speaking only for myself, it's a conscious decision heavily influenced by a go with the flow if that makes any sense. I have my ideas of when is too soon and what needs to exist between me and him before things turn physical. So before that happens, I'd remain that dam. Once they exist I go with the flow...I don't make the first move, but once he does, and I'm ready, I'm all in. I've never had sex on a first date and short of dementia changing my entire personality I never will. But I'm not going to wait 3 months either. I've been with 4 men...the timing was different with each of them. 

Hope that makes sense...it's hard to describe what I think needs to exist...I either feel it or I don't. I guess the best way would be a sense of safety...not just my physical safety but emotionally as well. Even with trying to protect myself I've taken a beating or two in that department. I also wait long enough that I never have to worry that he won't respect me the next morning either. I think that part just comes naturally d/t the time it takes for me to feel safe with someone.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

CraigBesuden said:


> In the 70s - early 90s there was the “three date rule.” A chaste woman would make a man wait until the third date to prove she’s not a ****. However, according to a Groupon survey, things are more conservative now - at least among the Millenials and Gen Z:
> 
> “According to the results, the three-date rule is becoming a thing of the past with most people waiting an average of eight dates before they have sex, with women waiting nine compared to five for men. And while men were nine times more likely to be ok with sleeping together on the first date, just 30 percent of men and 8 percent of women think sex should happen inside the first three dates.“
> 
> ...


I'm one of those that uses the 3 date rule. There is no way it will happen on the first date. I'm not a horny teenager or college age kid anymore. That is pretty damn reckless in this day and age. I'm glad the younger crowds wait a bit longer. 

By the third date, I can gauge if the attraction is there from both sides. If there is no chemistry, I walk away. Sex is very important to me and the attraction HAS to be there and it has to be mutual. 

I don't initiate, but I do guide.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> I don't initiate, but I do guide.


Anh, huh..... and then he glides right in.
Hopefully.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> When I’m dating someone new, if it goes beyond the first date, we will already be discussing sex and preferences. We will have already made out so that I know he’s good at that part at least (or he may not enjoy it either and we both have the choice of whether to continue or not). We discuss exclusivity. Then if all that lines up we discuss when and where will be the first time. There’s no “making a move” on me. Sex is a mutual event, not something he “gets” from me.


Yeah, same here. This thread is confusing to me, do people not talk at all? Do they just ruminate on when to make a "move"?

I cannot relate, at all.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

InMyPrime said:


> So? Have you done it yet? Or still waiting?
> I think we waited about 8 months. Until it was legal (for me, she was still under age).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We missed you round here buddy.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Red Sonja said:


> Yeah, same here. This thread is confusing to me, do people not talk at all? Do they just ruminate on when to make a "move"?
> 
> I cannot relate, at all.


I’m guessing this type of thinking is from men who still believe that women don’t even want to have sex, they think we only do it to “keep” a guy coming around.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Red Sonja said:


> Yeah, same here. This thread is confusing to me, do people not talk at all? Do they just ruminate on when to make a "move"?
> 
> I cannot relate, at all.


I do talk about it ahead of time and make sure we're on the same page about condoms, birth control, etc. My post did not mean to imply that doesn't happen. Sometimes a guy's first move IS to talk about it. :grin2:


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

It's a stretch to believe young adults 20-30 wait for 8 plus dates.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

notmyjamie said:


> And does that fact enter into why you ended up marrying her or is that just a coincidence?


It was a perfect storm scenario. I decided I needed to make some big changes to my life so I moved to a small town near Boston. I had started having a house built and bought an apartment to live in during the building process. A few things had happened in my life over a short period of time and for the first time ever I started to wonder where I was going and wtf was I doing. 
On my FIRST morning in the new place I went for a walk at about five am and met a woman who was cleaning the windows of her new gym which was opening that day. We got talking, she bought us coffee at an all night place and I asked her out, but she explained she had a two year old son and dating was impossible. I started meeting her every morning at five for coffee and when I realized that this was the highlight of my day I started pursuing her. I can say with hand on heart she is the only woman I’ve ever asked out a second time after being refused once. 
We got married last year.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Andy1001 said:


> It was a perfect storm scenario. I decided I needed to make some big changes to my life so I moved to a small town near Boston. I had started having a house built and bought an apartment to live in during the building process. A few things had happened in my life over a short period of time and for the first time ever I started to wonder where I was going and wtf was I doing.
> On my FIRST morning in the new place I went for a walk at about five am and met a woman who was cleaning the windows of her new gym which was opening that day. We got talking, she bought us coffee at an all night place and I asked her out, but she explained she had a two year old son and dating was very impossible. I started meeting her every morning at five for coffee and when I realized that this was the highlight of my day I started pursuing her. I can say with hand on heart she is the only woman I’ve ever asked out a second time after being refused once.
> We got married last year.


Nice story. Sounds like if she had said yes right off the bat things might have been very different between you. By saying no, she gave you time to really get to know her well before an actual date. As they say, all things happen for a reason. You seem very happy with her, I'm glad it worked out!!!


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's a stretch to believe young adults 20-30 wait for 8 plus dates.


I was at a New Years Eve party and I met a beautiful woman who I talked to all night. I asked her out and she said “sure, but just remember I’m not going to sleep with you for at least six months”.
I told her “ that’s fine, Ill call you around July”.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's a stretch to believe young adults 20-30 wait for 8 plus dates.


Some wait a lot longer than that.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's a stretch to believe young adults 20-30 wait for 8 plus dates.


I think young people who are looking for a relationship might but many young people aren't looking for that so they "hook up" pretty quickly. They view starting a relationship very differently from quick hook ups and ONS's.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CraigBesuden said:


> In the 70s - early 90s there was the “three date rule.” A chaste woman would make a man wait until the third date to prove she’s not a ****. However, according to a Groupon survey, things are more conservative now - at least among the Millenials and Gen Z:
> 
> “According to the results, the three-date rule is becoming a thing of the past with most people waiting an average of eight dates before they have sex, with women waiting nine compared to five for men. And while men were nine times more likely to be ok with sleeping together on the first date, just 30 percent of men and 8 percent of women think sex should happen inside the first three dates.“
> 
> ...


Not wanting to derail the thread and I have zero problems with people being more chaste or cautious but I must have run into hundreds of ****'s and totally missed the rest of the female population because the women I encountered through those decades and afterwards were DTF and often within hours of meeting.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> Not wanting to derail the thread and I have zero problems with people being more chaste or cautious but I must have run into hundreds of ****'s and totally missed the rest of the female population because the women I encountered through those decades and afterwards were DTF and often within hours of meeting.


I'd have to guess you didn't meet them at the church social then??? :smile2:

I think where and how you meet a woman will give you a clue as to how soon or if she's going to be DTF.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Not wanting to derail the thread and I have zero problems with people being more chaste or cautious but I must have run into hundreds of ****'s and totally missed the rest of the female population because the women I encountered through those decades and afterwards were DTF and often within hours of meeting.


I guess that was the circles you moved in in that time of your life. I honestly have never known any women who would have sex on a first date or even a second or third or forth.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Just whenever I feel that the sexual vibes are "right" between the two of you!

I don't really want to be with a holier-than-thou chaste prude, so I can usually read a woman intentions like a book! If she hasn't hinted that sex is where she wants to go, then I'll lose interest and likely end up dropping her like a hot rock!

If she lays out subtle verbal/physical signals that I can pick up on, then fine! But I'm not going to make a pass, but would definitely welcome a mutual one where there's reciprocal interest!

Let's just say that if there's no reciprocity, then I don't want to even give her the time of day!*


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

notmyjamie said:


> I'd have to guess you didn't meet them at the church social then??? :smile2:
> 
> I think where and how you meet a woman will give you a clue as to how soon or if she's going to be DTF.


All women I encountered, everywhere, that includes the hundreds I wanted nothing to do with like the two married neighbors offering me NSA afternoon delight when their husbands weren't around. They were standing together when they made the offer to me.

It includes the "nice" church girl from the poor but honest family down the road. My grandmother approved of her and suggested I pursue her. I did and was shocked when she got me alone and wanted to have a couple beers and for me to take her clothes off! I was caught flat footed on that one!

Every woman that got close enough to date me wanted sex quickly and many more who didn't get close still made the attempt. These women were across the spectrum with some being wild and most from different socioeconomic backgrounds.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> All women I encountered, everywhere, that includes the hundreds I wanted nothing to do with like the two married neighbors offering me NSA afternoon delight when their husbands weren't around. They were standing together when they made the offer to me.
> 
> It includes the "nice" church girl from the poor but honest family down the road. My grandmother approved of her and suggested I pursue her. I did and was shocked when she got me alone and wanted to have a couple beers and for me to take her clothes off! I was caught flat footed on that one!
> 
> Every woman that got close enough to date me wanted sex quickly and many more who didn't get close still made the attempt. These women were across the spectrum with some being wild and most from different socioeconomic backgrounds.



WTF?? Are you George Clooney or something???? Or maybe you have the strongest pheromones around. LOL


(I never really was into him but he's the one all the ladies seem to go crazy for so I used him)


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Not wanting to derail the thread and I have zero problems with people being more chaste or cautious but I must have run into hundreds of ****'s and totally missed the rest of the female population because the women I encountered through those decades and afterwards were DTF and often within hours of meeting.


.....you are quite amazing, aren't you?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

notmyjamie said:


> WTF?? Are you George Clooney or something???? Or maybe you have the strongest pheromones around. LOL
> 
> 
> (I never really was into him but he's the one all the ladies seem to go crazy for so I used him)


I'm wondering about the pheromones LoL! That is what happened though.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Betrayedone said:


> .....you are quite amazing, aren't you?


If you do say so yourself.:wink2:

I have just seen a lot of horny women who aggressively pursue sex.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> If you do say so yourself.:wink2:
> 
> I have just seen a lot of horny women who aggressively pursue sex.


So, did you approach women or wait for them to come to you? Because the women who like to wait, have a relationship, etc usually wait for the men to approach them. Women who want to get laid are much more aggressive. Maybe that accounts for it because I assure you, there are many women who are not DTF on the first meeting, myself included...no matter how good looking you are or smell


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

CraigBesuden said:


> Guys are often told that you need to act sexual. If you don’t, she will think of you as a friend...
> 
> So, let’s say you are dating a guy and you’re probably going to have sex around date 8. At what point should the guy try to initiate sex, even if you are going to decline? At what point should he kiss you?


8th date???

I don't need a guy to act sexual but if he's interested, he needs to be flirtatious. If I'm interested, I will reciprocate with physical affection of some kind (putting my arm through his while walking, touching his arm while talking, or my favorite - reading his palm :wink2. 

Personally, I am not attracted to men who are passive about indicating their attraction. Doesn't have to be on the first date, but if he hasn't kissed me by the second, then there won't be a third. IME, the guys who wait are trying to convince themselves to find me desirable. Been there and done that with my ex. I don't want to do that again.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Been my experience that both people know on the first date if there is mutual attraction. Makes "making a move" on the second, third, fourth date mostly a collaborative effort


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

notmyjamie said:


> So, did you approach women or wait for them to come to you? Because the women who like to wait, have a relationship, etc usually wait for the men to approach them. Women who want to get laid are much more aggressive. Maybe that accounts for it because I assure you, there are many women who are not DTF on the first meeting, myself included...not matter how good looking you are or smell


I don't discount anyone's experience. I got approached, hit on, come on to, propositioned, etc.. and whatever other term that gets used. I never cared to pursue. Sex was never a very high priority for me so I was caught off guard for a few years by how much women did seem to have it as a priority.

Many just wanted to take me for a ride while many wanted more. Some started out just wanting a ride and changed their minds and wanted more.

I never pursued anyone until I met Mrs. Conan and she was in bed with me less than 8 hours after saying hi.

I've had young ladies literally start to do things even in front of their friends without my pursuing them at all.

There were a couple of girls I was acquainted with that I ended up getting a ride with after a party. There was no room for everyone so one of them sat on my lap while the other drove. Both were flirting with me when the one on my lap started doing alarming things!!!!! We were all sober too!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

notmyjamie said:


> WTF?? Are you George Clooney or something???? Or maybe you have the strongest pheromones around. LOL
> 
> 
> (I never really was into him but he's the one all the ladies seem to go crazy for so I used him)


There's a picture of Conan on his profile. If you see it, this would make more sense. :smile2:


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> There's a picture of Conan on his profile. If you see it, this would make more sense. :smile2:


I was going to say the same thing. :smile2:


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> I don't discount anyone's experience. I got approached, hit on, come on to, propositioned, etc.. and whatever other term that gets used. I never cared to pursue. Sex was never a very high priority for me so I was caught off guard for a few years by how much women did seem to have it as a priority.
> 
> Many just wanted to take me for a ride while many wanted more. Some started out just wanting a ride and changed their minds and wanted more.
> 
> ...


I have no doubts with your story @ConanHub. When I was young and in college, I knew very attractive guys who had that same affect on the women. And to be honest, they didn't have much game but they all had two common qualities: 1) They were very approachable and 2) They smiled a lot (not a stern face among them).


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lila said:


> I have no doubts with your story @ConanHub. When I was young and in college, I knew very attractive guys who had that same affect on the women. And to be honest, they didn't have much game but they all had two common qualities: 1) They were very approachable and 2) They smiled a lot (not a stern face among them).


Well, there are some circumstances where women do seem to want sex aggressively.

I absolutely believe everyone's experience and this is just mine.

I honestly didn't consider that I was attractive until several years ago and on much reflection.

I didn't even consider it while posting here until recently either.:wink2:


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> There's a picture of Conan on his profile. If you see it, this would make more sense. :smile2:


I don't see it (the picture I mean.) But, I'm sure he's a very good looking guy. But I still wouldn't go after him in the way he describes these women did. To be clear, I don't doubt the validity of his story at all.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

notmyjamie said:


> I don't see it (the picture I mean.) But, I'm sure he's a very good looking guy. But I still wouldn't go after him in the way he describes these women did. To be clear, I don't doubt the validity of his story at all.


I took all my pictures down because I picked up a FB stalker and had to secure my **** so to speak.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

notmyjamie said:


> I don't see it (the picture I mean.) But, I'm sure he's a very good looking guy. But I still wouldn't go after him in the way he describes these women did. To be clear, I don't doubt the validity of his story at all.


I think the key is, there are certain girls who *do* behave like this, and those types of girls are hunting guys like Conan. I don't think it is super common, but since those girls are hunting, when they find a Conan, they pounce. So from Conan's perspective, it seems like a lot of women. As a percentage of the population, it probably isn't a lot of women.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> I took all my pictures down because I picked up a FB stalker and had to secure my **** so to speak.


Geez, finding you on Facebook from nothing but a picture? I'm in awe of their skills.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BioFury said:


> Geez, finding you on Facebook from nothing but a picture? I'm in awe of their skills.


It isn't that difficult apparently. I got a creepy foreign guy, that no one knows, posting on pictures of my grandson saying "nice baby". Talk about anger and fear combined...


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Lila said:


> 8th date???
> 
> I don't need a guy to act sexual but if he's interested, he needs to be flirtatious. If I'm interested, I will reciprocate with physical affection of some kind (putting my arm through his while walking, touching his arm while talking, or my favorite - reading his palm :wink2.


I was on a first date in London one night and at the restaurant we ran into my dates boss. We all ended up sitting together and then things got interesting with the boss. She was absolutely beautiful, her mom was originally from Jamaica and her Dad was an English guy and she was really exotic looking and very friendly. She was flirting with me even though my date was there and she decided she was going to read my palm. 
Things went downhill fast! Whatever she thought she seen upset her and she dropped my hand really quickly and left. My date ran out after her and convinced her to come back which she did. She tried to play it off as a joke but she didn’t fool anyone, she was genuinely upset. She wouldn’t explain what it was that she read and wouldn’t discuss the matter again. 
The following day she got my number and called me to apologize and said she had drank too much wine but she still didn’t explain what had happened.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> I think the key is, there are certain girls who *do* behave like this, and those types of girls are hunting guys like Conan. I don't think it is super common, but since those girls are hunting, when they find a Conan, they pounce. So from Conan's perspective, it seems like a lot of women. As a percentage of the population, it probably isn't a lot of women.



I think about 10% of men and 10% of women are uninhibited. They are the ones getting most of the action while the other 90% are watching what “everybody else” is doing.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Andy1001 said:


> She was flirting with me even though my date was there and she decided she was going to read my palm.
> 
> Things went downhill fast! Whatever she thought she seen upset her and she dropped my hand really quickly and left.



I’ve also read your palm. It says says that you will seduce your date’s boss, take her on a romantic date leading back to your house, where you will take her by the hand, lead her into the basement, wrap her up in Saran Wrap and beat her with a stick.



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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

The views reported here frustrates me with dating particularly online. I think it may have to do with people here who have been sexless getting back out there. I’m a very sexual, affectionate person. I don’t go by rules. I go by how I feel. With a complete stranger especially if you meet online sleeping with someone after 3 dates Is ludicrous to me. I don’t know you from a whole in the wall ...All I see here is how to get to sex- what hoops do I jump through to get some. idk.. maybe because sex has never been an issue for me in relationships I’m really turned off when guys lead with sex. I love sex but I have to establish a connectionbeyond physical attraction. I need to at least feel (right or wrong) you are into me for more than making it to the 3rd date so we can have sex.what the hell do you know anybody after s couple of dates- NOTHING!!


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Andy1001 said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > 8th date???
> ...


That would have freaked the hell out of me. 

I'm not a real palm reader. I just use it as a way to get my hands on my date. My readings are full of seductive double entendre and playfulness. It's a great way to flirt without the pressure of flirting.


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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

Online - I can tell you guys attempt to get sexual right away. They test you to see how far they can go before you even meet or have much conversation. NEXT...


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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

Next, next , next.... all too often...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

CraigBesuden said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > I think the key is, there are certain girls who *do* behave like this, and those types of girls are hunting guys like Conan. I don't think it is super common, but since those girls are hunting, when they find a Conan, they pounce. So from Conan's perspective, it seems like a lot of women. As a percentage of the population, it probably isn't a lot of women.
> ...


Well, no.

Just because I don’t pounce on a guy on the first date doesn’t mean I don’t have lots of great sex. I’m not interested in what anyone else is doing and am not “watching” them because, who cares? I’ve had an excellent sex life, no regrets, only amazing memories and in any new relationships it’s amazing all over again.

For me the thing is to move on quickly when or if you realize you are not sexually compatible. Don’t spend time trying to make something work when you know in the beginning it’s not what I want.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

notmyjamie said:


> Maybe that accounts for it because I assure you, there are many women who are not DTF on the first meeting, myself included...no matter how good looking you are or smell


Sure there are many who aren't, yet just the same there are many who are.

On first meeting I had sex with one woman within a few minutes of meeting them in a pub. Likewise in another instance, one woman took me home to her place in a taxi about twenty minutes after meeting her. That kind of thing happened very easily.

I once had just met a Japanese housemate (on a student visa) who asked to look at my music. After a few minutes of that, she asked me to have sex with her. My ex-wife and I had sex within two hours of meeting each other at a party.

I went to one woman's house for a playdate for our pre school aged sons. I had only met her the week before, yet after a few minutes she showed me around her house, took me to her bedroom and offered me sex. Although I turned her down, given my experience with different women that offer seemed normal to me.

On and on etc.

My wife has told me if she found herself divorced, she'd happily have sex on first dates if she found the guy appealing sexually. She said at her age, it seems silly to wait.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Personal said:


> My wife has told me if she found herself divorced, she'd happily have sex on first dates if she found the guy appealing sexually. She said at her age, it seems silly to wait.


I agree with her that at this age, there's no reason to wait if the attraction is mutual. 
Many of my friends are carefree like that. I'm the complete opposite. I'm risk averse and cautious to a fault. I need to make sure my partner and I are on the same page.... and my page has a lot of music on it.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

curious2 said:


> Online - I can tell you guys attempt to get sexual right away. They test you to see how far they can go before you even meet or have much conversation. NEXT...


I avoid this by talking about what I’m looking for upfront, before even meeting them. Guys who are going to try to lead with sex will do it by chat first if you talk to them a bit. When they show their hand like that I just stop talking to them.

I have not gone on any dates with anyone who tried to push for sex immediately, because I do a good job at screening now.

There are plenty of guys who are amazingly sexual but who don’t want sex outside of exclusivity. You have to know how to suss this out before you even meet them. Guys who want good sex but also exclusivity talk differently than the ones who want to bang anything. 

We have some threads about online dating going if you want to join us there to discuss these issues.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Lila said:


> I'm the complete opposite.


Being true to yourself, is the best way to play.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

curious2 said:


> The views reported here frustrates me with dating particularly online. I think it may have to do with people here who have been sexless getting back out there. I’m a very sexual, affectionate person. I don’t go by rules. I go by how I feel. With a complete stranger especially if you meet online sleeping with someone after 3 dates Is ludicrous to me. I don’t know you from a whole in the wall ...All I see here is how to get to sex- what hoops do I jump through to get some. idk.. maybe because sex has never been an issue for me in relationships I’m really turned off when guys lead with sex. I love sex but I have to establish a connectionbeyond physical attraction. I need to at least feel (right or wrong) you are into me for more than making it to the 3rd date so we can have sex.what the hell do you know anybody after s couple of dates- NOTHING!!


Online dating is a totally different story. It is very sexual both ways : meaning both sexes are seeking
Mostly sexual encounters and ONS. It is not a place to find a person to date and think exclusivity is a given. Too many players out there.

You need to chat for a bit first. You meet once you realize the other person is seeking what you are seeking. It is still a gamble,but it is part of being single and seeking a partner for whatever your goal is.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Andy1001 said:


> I have only once had a girlfriend who I didn’t have sex with by the third date.
> And I married her.


Sounds like a keeper. Um, not that she wouldn't be otherwise. But just given your addiction, I would say that probably played a role in things. You think or nah? You and me dont really do a good job of reading one another always. We're very different dudes I think.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lila said:


> That would have freaked the hell out of me.
> 
> I'm not a real palm reader. I just use it as a way to get my hands on my date. My readings are full of seductive double entendre and playfulness. It's a great way to flirt without the pressure of flirting.


That is a great creepy story! Sounds like the start of an interesting book or movie!


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> It isn't that difficult apparently. I got a creepy foreign guy, that no one knows, posting on pictures of my grandson saying "nice baby". Talk about anger and fear combined...


In my experience, ignoring people like that is the best strategy. Any kind of reaction gives them something to feed on.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BioFury said:


> In my experience, ignoring people like that is the best strategy. Any kind of reaction gives them something to feed on.


I took care of security and he is no longer an issue. It is very possible that he didn't even see me on this site but I didn't want to chance it. Some others here have had much worse happen.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> I took care of security and he is no longer an issue. It is very possible that he didn't even see me on this site but I didn't want to chance it. *Some others here have had much worse happen.*


Really? Who? What happened?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Lila said:


> I agree with her that at this age, there's no reason to wait if the attraction is mutual.



I think it depends on the type of men that you (the general you) are likely to meet. If you keep meeting men that promise you golden mountains just to get into your pants and then loose interest shortly after, then you would obviously soon realise that waiting until you get to know the type better and what it is he is looking from the relationship would leave you less disappointed more often, no?

Looking back now, I always felt a heightened sense of responsibility when hit on by girls (towards the girl). If I didn’t have genuine feelings for her, I felt very guilty if I was in any way leading her on by not letting her know very soon that I wasn’t really interested. I felt I would otherwise be ‘using’ her for sex and I felt she may not even realise that this was BAD for her.

With the advent of feminism, I now realise that this in itself may have been a condescending attitude to have (who am I to make these decisions FOR her?). I didn’t think like that at all at the time but reading these forums and over time, I started to realise that maybe they did not mind being used? (that, and the hope that she may change the guy’s mind).

Either way, even if I thought differently (and taking the girls’ interests out of the equation), I still would have felt (and still feel) that unless one sees some potential for a serious relationship developing, the (shortlived) pleasure from casual sex, don’t outweigh the potential hassle of the resulting complications from it.
So even if my thinking changed, I don’t regret the way I behaved (and would like to teach my children the same values somehow).

When I met my wife things changed. Something turned on in me and I did not think about anything else but pursuit. Nor what was good for HER...It was selfish. And I didn’t care. But I wanted/want to be the best (for her). I would probably not have hesitated sleeping the first night we got together. (Though she would, and did. And I probably wouldn’t have known how to do it anyway as my male hymen was fully intact...).

I do believe there are women who will absolutely not sleep with the guy on first date (the majority I think), no matter who the guy is or how attracted they are to him. I don’t think one category is ‘better’ than the other (it’s personal choice) but I think experience will possibly show them that it is very difficult to make an ‘informed’ choice from just the first impression and weed out the ‘chancers’ who are just looking to ‘pump and dump’ (to use a fairly literal expression). It doesn’t mean they won’t meet the love of their life from sex on the first encounter but the chances are probably stacked against it.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

BioFury said:


> Really? Who? What happened?


I don’t know about anyone at TAM, but I’ve had friends and relatives get weird stalkers online and all kinds of crappy things can happen. Like they can send out a message through Facebook that looks like it came from you, and it’s either weirdo spam porn, or it’s a virus embedded within a video they think you will watch because they think it really came from you.

These people may not be stalking you as an individual, but they can find people easier if we are lackadaisical with our pictures and details.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

InMyPrime said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with her that at this age, there's no reason to wait if the attraction is mutual.
> ...


The key words in my post are "at this age". At this age, I think it's less about the other person and more about getting personal needs met outside of a long term committed relationship that in all likelihood is not going to happen. 

There's a common saying among my single friends (men and women) - "we're not getting any younger*. I know very few people who will wait 8 dates to have sex, and most of those are convincing themselves to feel sexual attraction for the other person. Cold but true.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> There's a picture of Conan on his profile. If you see it, this would make more sense. :smile2:





Lila said:


> I was going to say the same thing. :smile2:


...curiosity got the better of me, then saw Conan wrote that he'd taken his photo down. Maybe I saw his photo in the past when others posted, but can't really remember. 

Still, the physical aside, Lila has noted that being approachable with a smile can draw people in. Vibe and pheromones aren't to be underestimated either.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> I guess that was the circles you moved in in that time of your life. I honestly have never known any women who would have sex on a first date or even a second or third or forth.


I kissed Mrs. NLLH on first date....we did not have sex until wedding night 2 years later, she was virgin. Unheard of today.:wink2:


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Lila said:


> I don't need a guy to act sexual but if he's interested, he needs to be flirtatious. If I'm interested, I will reciprocate with physical affection of some kind (putting my arm through his while walking, touching his arm while talking, or my favorite - reading his palm :wink2.
> 
> Personally, I am not attracted to men who are passive about indicating their attraction. Doesn't have to be on the first date, but if he hasn't kissed me by the second, then there won't be a third. IME, the guys who wait are trying to convince themselves to find me desirable.


Even though I haven't been on a first date for many years, I feel I can relate to your sentiment. The flirtation and mutual demonstration of interest needs to be there; it's what entices the butterflies, mystery, and tension. With hubs, we were attracted to one another by voice and personality first, casually met up and kissed at the club, then he invited me on our first date. On our first date, after lunch, I asked about attraction and he responded by leaning me against his car and kissing me. The date extended several hours hanging out together chatting, and into the evening, where he fed me strawberries... mreow. While memories of the 90s may differ to priorities considered by single friends dating at this age, the premise of flirtation and demonstrating interest remains.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Personal said:


> In my experience, women were often up for sex at the end of the first date with the rest waiting for the second or third date. As to initiation, women were the ones who often did the initiating in the first place since they would seldom wait. While one questioned if I was interested at all, when I didn't initiate at the end of a first date (moments later we then started having sex).


Also Gen-X. Your experience aligns with that of my peers... while I was the odd-ball virgin among them. I remember being out with friends and them asking me why I wasn't just 'effing' the guy.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> I kissed Mrs. NLLH on first date....we did not have sex until wedding night 2 years later, she was virgin. Unheard of today.:wink2:


It still happens, I know a few couples who married in the last few years who also waited for marriage. Many more who waited several months until they actually got to know each other before they had sex. 
We waited for marriage as well, although for us it was a second marriage.

I think its very sad that so many wont wait for even a few dates to get to know the person before having sex. Sex has become more or less meaningless now for so many. :frown2:


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> I think the key is, there are certain girls who *do* behave like this, and those types of girls are hunting guys like Conan. I don't think it is super common, but since those girls are hunting, when they find a Conan, they pounce. So from Conan's perspective, it seems like a lot of women. As a percentage of the population, it probably isn't a lot of women.


That's exactly the point I was trying to make. Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

InMyPrime said:


> I do believe there are women who will absolutely not sleep with the guy on first date (the majority I think), no matter who the guy is or how attracted they are to him. I don’t think one category is ‘better’ than the other (it’s personal choice) but I think experience will possibly show them that it is very difficult to make an ‘informed’ choice from just the first impression and weed out the ‘chancers’ who are just looking to ‘pump and dump’ (to use a fairly literal expression). It doesn’t mean they won’t meet the love of their life from sex on the first encounter but the chances are probably stacked against it.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And don't forget that sometimes its the woman who wants to bang a guy and never see him again. 

Speaking only for myself, sex is about so much more than just physical sex to me. It's about a certain connection and morality issues aside, I just don't feel I can make that kind of connection to someone I just met. I need to know more and have spent time together, etc. If my personality changed overnight and I didn't care about that connection part anymore I might be down for hunting someone like Conan but I don't see that happening for me anytime soon. (No offense Conan!!!)

I agree, no one way is better than the other as long as each person is comfortable with the way they are conducting their sex life. I've known many a woman who thought the way to nab a guy was to sleep with him immediately and then he'd be so overtaken by her that he'd fall in love instantly. Needless to say it didn't turn out that way 99% of the time so she felt used, cheap, etc. But, the next week, she'd make the same mistake again.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

notmyjamie said:


> And don't forget that sometimes its the woman who wants to bang a guy and never see him again.
> 
> Speaking only for myself, sex is about so much more than just physical sex to me. It's about a certain connection and morality issues aside, I just don't feel I can make that kind of connection to someone I just met. I need to know more and have spent time together, etc. If my personality changed overnight and I didn't care about that connection part anymore I might be down for hunting someone like Conan but I don't see that happening for me anytime soon. (No offense Conan!!!)
> 
> I agree, no one way is better than the other as long as each person is comfortable with the way they are conducting their sex life. I've known many a woman who thought the way to nab a guy was to sleep with him immediately and then he'd be so overtaken by her that he'd fall in love instantly. Needless to say it didn't turn out that way 99% of the time so she felt used, cheap, etc. But, the next week, she'd make the same mistake again.


Its very sad that those women cant realise that to get a good man they need to act very differently.:frown2:
Sad that they think that having sex on a first date is the way to true love and a lasting happy relationship. 
Instead they are often just used and discarded.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

notmyjamie said:


> That's exactly the point I was trying to make. Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!


 @Faithful Wife is most probably at least partially correct. I didn't pursue anyone and I said all women who got within dating range wanted sex rather quickly as well as many others who were in my social sphere. 

The majority of women in my areas during this time were never even in my social circles, much less got close enough to date.

I still like the pheromone angle.:smile2:


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Lila said:


> That would have freaked the hell out of me.
> 
> I'm not a real palm reader. I just use it as a way to get my hands on my date. My readings are full of seductive double entendre and playfulness. It's a great way to flirt without the pressure of flirting.


That is genius. And very sexy.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

And to the OP, I would never wait 8 dates to have sex with a man. If there is sexual chemistry, we aren't waiting 8 dates I can tell you that right now. If there is no sexual chemistry, there would be no 8th date. As for when, sooner rather than later. Just depends.

As far as making the moves, I prefer a more dominant man. Nothing rapey!!! But someone who is assured of his sexual energy (again-WITH consent) and takes what we both want.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

lucy999 said:


> And to the OP, I would never wait 8 dates to have sex with a man. If there is sexual chemistry, we aren't waiting 8 dates I can tell you that right now. If there is no sexual chemistry, there would be no 8th date. As for when, sooner rather than later. Just depends.
> 
> As far as making the moves, I prefer a more dominant man. Nothing rapey!!! But someone who is assured of his sexual energy (again-WITH consent) and takes what we both want.


I would not wait 8 dates either, unless there was just some reason we could not get alone. Even if that was the case we would be making out like teenagers and would be discussing the earliest opportunity to be alone.

Also same, if there was no sexual chemistry there would not be 8 dates and usually won’t even be 2 dates.

I’m not so much into dominant men but I certainly would not be able to get intimate with a man who can’t even navigate how to get there.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's a stretch to believe young adults 20-30 wait for 8 plus dates.


Going to throw 40’s in there as well. Not Way am I waiting 8 dates. You’re either into me prior to that or I’m moving on


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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

By date 8 you should be ****ing like rabbits. Date 3.... uhhh...no.

Given that you’ve seen the person and spoken regularly throughout the 8 weeks.

If you are talking to somebody for 8 weeks and only saw them 2x.... well... dump them....

This is partially why I think the 3 date rule is stupid for women...at least for women who are not just looking for a lay.


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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

And let’s be real if that’s all we want we don’t need an app for it...

Women that is...


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## .339971 (Sep 12, 2019)

My ex would have gone insane if we hadn't done anything by the eight date. She made it abundantly clear after the first date she wanted sex. But everybody is different.


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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

For me the key would be all that transpired up until that 8th date....could be a lot of great stuff...could be nothing.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

lucy999 said:


> And to the OP, I would never wait 8 dates to have sex with a man. If there is sexual chemistry, we aren't waiting 8 dates I can tell you that right now. If there is no sexual chemistry, there would be no 8th date. As for when, sooner rather than later. Just depends.
> 
> As far as making the moves, I prefer a more dominant man. Nothing rapey!!! But someone who is assured of his sexual energy (again-WITH consent) and takes what we both want.


Believe me you can be with a person who you have real chemistry with and still wait for sex. I would never be with a man who pressured me to have sex after such a very short time. It would show me the sort of man he is, not for me thanks. 
I am attracted to men with strong moral values and who actually have some self control. Who see sex as something to wait for until you are in love and committed, and that you highly value.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Lila said:


> 8th date???
> 
> I don't need a guy to act sexual but if he's interested, he needs to be flirtatious. If I'm interested, I will reciprocate with physical affection of some kind (putting my arm through his while walking, touching his arm while talking, or my favorite - reading his palm :wink2.
> 
> Personally, I am not attracted to men who are passive about indicating their attraction. Doesn't have to be on the first date, but if he hasn't kissed me by the second, then there won't be a third. IME, the guys who wait are trying to convince themselves to find me desirable. Been there and done that with my ex. I don't want to do that again.


Some men will date and F anything in a dress
I would not ask a girl out if I did not find her attractive to have sex
A man not making a move by the 2nd date,
is a man that finds a woman attractive, proof second date

lack of making a move could be due to shyness, poor social skills,
needing guidance time to move and how much to move.

Fear of getting dumped by an attractive woman for making the wrong
move or the wrong time leads to indecision and no moves made.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldtruck said:


> Some men will date and F anything in a dress
> I would not ask a girl out if I did not find her attractive to have sex
> A man not making a move by the 2nd date,
> is a man that finds a woman attractive, proof second date
> ...


Then he wouldn't be the right guy for me. I am not a mind reader. If the guy cannot communicate his attraction is some way (there are many ways to do this), then I will have to assume he's not interested.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

oldtruck said:


> *Lack of making a move could be due to shyness, poor social skills,
> needing guidance, time to move, and how much to move.
> 
> Fear of getting dumped by an attractive woman for making the wrong move or at the wrong time leads to indecision and no moves made.*


*My point exactly!*


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Okay, so kiss by the second date and be flirtatious to show interest. Cool. But at what point does he need to try to go for more? At what point would it be too early and creepy?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *My point exactly!*


Arb, I understand what you are saying. But it isn't really anyone's problem that other people have this type of issue. If you go on a date with a woman who sees your trepidation as a red flag, then that's just the breaks. It is not her job to tip toe around and make YOU feel comfortable.

Same goes vice versa.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

oldtruck said:


> Fear of getting dumped by an attractive woman for making the wrong
> move or the wrong time leads to indecision and no moves made.


Oh well! That just means that even though he may be attracted to her, they are not a match. Better to find this out sooner than later.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Lila said:


> *Then he wouldn't be the right guy for me. I am not a mind reader. If the guy cannot communicate his attraction is some way (there are many ways to do this), then I will have to assume he's not interested.*


*So what if the poor guy (or gal) is scared crapless out of the fear of rejection in making an unwarranted or unwanted move on a member of the opposite sex?

Is there any leeway given for such an intrinsically good guy who might have been previously hurt or shunned by different women, through no real fault of his own?

After having endured rejection several times, or even just once, several of those guys (and gals, too) will just throw in the towel, summarily give up and walk away! Not really wanting to endure hurt yet again!*


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

CraigBesuden said:


> Okay, so kiss by the second date and be flirtatious to show interest. Cool. But at what point does he need to try to go for more? At what point would it be too early and creepy?


You have over 80 responses and some already address this.

Can I ask what you are actually trying to understand? Perhaps there is a subtext that we aren't getting.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> *Arb, I understand what you are saying. But it isn't really anyone's problem that other people have this type of issue. If you go on a date with a woman who sees your trepidation as a red flag, then that's just the breaks. It is not her job to tip toe around and make YOU feel comfortable.
> 
> Same goes vice versa.*


*In total concurrence!

In such a case, I would pick up on their negative vibes and summarily bail!*


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *So what if the poor guy (or gal) is scared crapless out of the fear of rejection in making an unwarranted or unwanted move on a member of the opposite sex?
> 
> Is there any leeway given for such an intrinsically good guy who might have been previously hurt or shunned by different women, through no real fault of his own?
> 
> After having endured rejection several times, or even just once, several of those guys (and gals, too) will just throw in the towel, summarily give up and walk away! Not really wanting to endure hurt yet again!*


Well let's see....let's say a woman is really shy and was screwed over by a couple of previous husbands, and now she expects any new man in her life to reassure her that he will never hurt her before she will even date him, let alone kiss him.

Is this fair to any new guy?

Wouldn't most new guys say nope, sorry, I don't have to prove anything to you. Next!

If they give up and take themselves out of the dating pool are people supposed to rush in and beg them to join it again? And if they do join it again, aren't they just going to bring their same issues again?

If you don't trust others, that may be a shame due to some trauma you have experienced, but it is not something you can expect a new person to take responsibility for.

In fact, when you date and still hold that distrust and trauma, what you are doing is bringing your ex on the date with you. Which is extremely unfair to your new date.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Well let's see....let's say a woman is really shy and was screwed over by a couple of previous husbands, and now she expects any new man in her life to reassure her that he will never hurt her before she will even date him, let alone kiss him.
> 
> Is this fair to any new guy?
> 
> ...


*I understand exactly where you're coming from, FW! But I don't really consider it as bringing your exes with you to the date! Those people, who chose to cheat in the marital relationship, were summarily left behind! Both physically and spiritually! I never want to recall any semblance of my memories with them, good, bad or indifferent!

Fear of the future, where there's been an uncertain or shady past, is only natural! Because of the prior trauma of mistrust and of that uncertainty, perhaps it would be doing everyone a favor, and be far better to just pull ones participation from the dating pool, if the likelihood of more hurt and disappointment is going to continue to prevail in the new ones, just as they did in the old ones! 
*


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldtruck said:


> Some men will date and F anything in a dress
> I would not ask a girl out if I did not find her attractive to have sex
> A man not making a move by the 2nd date,
> is a man that finds a woman attractive, proof second date
> ...


Or it could be just that he is a gentleman.:smile2:


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *I understand exactly where you're coming from, FW! But I don't really consider it as bringing your exes with you to the date! Those people, who chose to cheat in the marital relationship, were summarily left behind! Both physically and spiritually! I never want to recall any semblance of my memories with them, good, bad or indifferent!
> 
> Fear of the future, where there's been an uncertain or shady past, is only natural! Because of the prior trauma of mistrust and of that uncertainty, perhaps it would be doing everyone a favor, and be far better to just pull ones participation from the dating pool, if the likelihood of more hurt and disappointment is going to continue to prevail in the new ones, just as they did in the old ones!
> *


You may not consider it bringing your exes with you on a date, but your date will.

I’m just saying....if a person is still trying to cope with trust, that is baggage due to a previous partner, any new partner will see that a mile away and will know it is about someone else.

I don’t mean that people cannot be empathetic towards this kind of thing. But if it causes a new date of mine to not be able to trust ME due to what an EX did to them, I’m not going to be so quick to protect or try to reassure that new date.

I would not have the energy to try to “fix” them. It’s too much energy just trying to fix my own issues.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Lila said:


> Then he wouldn't be the right guy for me. I am not a mind reader. If the guy cannot communicate his attraction is some way (there are many ways to do this), then I will have to assume he's not interested.


He is not a mind reader either. He wants you but cannot tell if you want to be taken.

So would you still walk away if he was a George Clooney attractive, had millions, famous, body
toned like a male underwear model?

Or would you work with his poor/limited social skills?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

oldtruck said:


> He is not a mind reader either. He wants you but cannot tell if you want to be taken.
> 
> So would you still walk away if he was a George Clooney attractive, had millions, famous, body
> toned like a male underwear model?
> ...


I know you didn’t ask me, but I’ll answer.

It would not matter what he looked like or how much money he had. If he was still too damaged from previous relationships, I would not stick around to try to fix him. 

As I said previously, I would feel empathy for him. But that would not solve the issue. I’m a healthy adult and need to partner with a healthy adult. I don’t have time to work through someone else’s stuff. Especially not lack of sexual confidence. 

There are some women who would if they liked the guy enough. Usually that would be a woman who doesn’t know that it may be a futile endeavor.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

arbitrator said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > *Then he wouldn't be the right guy for me. I am not a mind reader. If the guy cannot communicate his attraction is some way (there are many ways to do this), then I will have to assume he's not interested.*
> ...


Arb, @Faithful Wife answered it better than I ever could.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Lila said:


> Arb, @Faithful Wife answered it better than I ever could.


*And I liked her answer!

Thanks, @Lila*


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldtruck said:


> He is not a mind reader either. He wants you but cannot tell if you want to be taken.
> 
> So would you still walk away if he was a George Clooney attractive, had millions, famous, body
> toned like a male underwear model?
> ...


I would absolutely walk away. I do not need George Clooney level of attractiveness, millions of dollars, famous, or a male underwear model. I was married to an attractive, fit man who was bringing home the bacon for almost 20 years but also couldn't communicate his needs to save his life. Look what that got me. 

At this point in my life, it's less about the superficial qualities and more about a deeper connection. A man who leads turns me on. No nonsense communication regarding needs and boundaries turns me on. Feeling desired turns me on. 

I think I'm an excellent communicator. If I'm interested in a man, I feel it's my job to leave the door open. It's up to him to choose to walk through it or not. I'm not the kind to drag him across the threshold.


I'm not saying this is the way of all women. I am saying it is my way.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Lila said:


> I would absolutely walk away. I do not need George Clooney level of attractiveness, millions of dollars, famous, or a male underwear model. I was married to an attractive, fit man who was bringing home the bacon for almost 20 years but also couldn't communicate his needs to save his life. Look what that got me.
> 
> At this point in my life, it's less about the superficial qualities and more about a deeper connection. A man who leads turns me on. No nonsense communication regarding needs and boundaries turns me on. Feeling desired turns me on.
> 
> ...


I never advocated dragging through a door way. Though a door closed equally
implies locked, as well as unlocked.

The closed door never sends an encouraging signal.
A woman opening the door ajar in front of a man does.


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