# Do triggers and memories ever go away?



## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

After deleting, I'm back with my story…update to follow,
My wife had an affair 11 yrs ago. I found out when she went on a cruise with her sisters and I called the cruise line to send flowers. When they said my wife wasn't registered, they asked if she was registered under another name. A voice in my head had me blurt out my "so called best friends" name. And there she was, registered with him in his cabin. They would not give me the room, I left a message and she called me back crying, said she was sorry and was sick to her stomach.

She said he went because her sisters were short on money and he covered it. They felt bad and asked him to go. She also said she wanted to see what it would feel like waking up next to him? When she rolled over in the morning and it was him instead of me she freaked out. She said she was ashamed and she felt like jumping off the ship. So now I had to balance being shocked, angry, hurt, with worrying about her jumping ship.... He got off the ship and flew home immediately. I had several days to think about what happened and I was just crying and worried that I lost my wife and family? I never had a chance to show anger because I was afraid it would push her to him. 

We ended up going to counseling but got "bad advice"! I was told I had to accept blame, put it behind us, and move forward (rug sweep). I was also told that every time I brought it up I was slowly ruining her self esteem. I now believe that my self-defense mechanism was to blame myself and everyone but my wife. If I pushed her away and she was manipulated by him, then it wasn't really her who did this to me? For the last 10 years she has been a loving wife...I have the problem! I’m loaded with guilt, because I begged her to stay, she did, and I am the one who suffers and can't let it go? There are too many triggers in life. He even has the same name as me so it was an issue hearing his name in bed. I obviously need to move on from this, I just don't know how. She says as wrong as it sounds when she was with him she wanted to be with me and always loved me? She thought there was someone else? There never was. I was pulling away as she had become flirtatious with this friend and others, and I could tell she loved the attention. We had many fights about this and I always said someone is going to take your flirtations the wrong way. 

I turned to porn and apparently she saw me watching a video clip and masturbating at night. She thought there was someone else, but didn't ask me about it, she turned to my "friend"? There never was anyone else, with the porn there were no worries about performance issues or rejection...it was just a release. I knew she was enjoying this new found attention and no matter what I said, I was being controlling. I felt like less of a man as this OM who had deep pockets was slowly buying his way into my family as I struggled. I have since stopped any regular viewing of porn. I have had "performance issues" ever since the affair and I know it's in my head because the "morning missile" is often there. I know now I should have been honest with my wife all along, but she moved on and I just didn't want to hurt her.

I lived with the triggers and mind movies for 10 years but I finally told my wife because she accused me of having an affair. I became friends with a new coworker who had worked for my brother before working with me. She always got along with, so we too became friends. My wife and I went to a work party at her house, we went to a Sports bar many nights with her and her husband to watch games, and we went to a few family parties together and it was never a problem. When her dad died, my wife and I went to the funeral and wake together so I included her in everything. In the 3 years we worked together there were never any activities outside of work unless my wife and others were there. No lunches, drinks, coffee, nothing. We talked at work, and we texted as well, always had...often work related, sometimes not. 

About 1 ½ years ago, this coworker/friend ended up telling me she was getting a divorce because her husband had multiple affairs throughout their 8 year marriage and she could no longer accept it. When they split up, my wife got jealous. This friend moved 2,000 miles away 6 months ago to start a new life. We still occasionally talk or text, mostly about her finding a job or about mutual friends here at work, but since she found a job and started working there is no regular communication. I am happy that I finally was able to open up. I have felt for a long time like there was a "monster inside of me trying to break out". I want my wounds to heal, and one day not have to talk about this anymore and just be happy. I have always been there for my family and once this finally came out I felt relief! 

Unfortunately my wife tried to “blameshift” saying this only came out because my friend got divorced, her husband had affairs, and we talked. This just causes me to have anger and resentment. It takes a lot of effort to always say to myself "that was in the past, we were both in a bad place, she made bad choices, I need to put it behind me and just enjoy the moment and look to the future" That works...until the next trigger and then I have to make that same conscious effort to keep moving forward? Now I want to deal with it and she’s making it about someone else again? 

If she wants to believe that my friendship is an EA, fine then it’s a non sexual EA. In 3 years this person was never more than a good friend to me and has always said my situation is different than hers, I should do my best to work things out, I should get professional help, be honest with myself and take care of me. I know I need professional help. I’m sharing this to see if maybe someone else has experienced anything like this, and how they make the memories and thoughts go away. My problem is I buried them, allowed them to fester for years, and I now feel after this long, they are there for good. I have told her something in me died 11 years ago and my lack of desire for sex and my performance issues back that up. I love and care for her, but as the old saying goes...I don't know if I can be “in love" with her......


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

First thing 



> She also said she wanted to see what it would feel like waking up next to him?


this is bull****...utter bullsh!t. They did sleep previously, right and that too multiple times. And yeah, they did sleep in your bed. Don't worry about that. They let him come because he covered their money? Another bullsh!t story. It it was so innocent, then you would have been made aware of it. That he was going on a trip with them shouldn't have been a secret. Or she would have had her own room. You are still being bush!tted.



> When she rolled over in the morning and it was him instead of me she freaked out.


Haha, thats because he never considered her a long term prospect. If he had given her an opputunity, she would have dumped you for him. For him, your wife was just a quick fling that spread her legs when he threw money at her. But you can believe it if it satisfies your ego

Some more news, The thing about your porn watching, and her assuming that your cheating, that is bullsh!t too. Its called blameshifting and justifying her cheating. 


She was fine all along as you blamed yourself and others for her affair. Now that you started accusing her, she cannot take it.


As lascarx mentioned in the other thread, you will be doing both of you a favor if you separate and move on


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

The update is my wife was originally blaming all of this on my supposed EA with my friend. I told her if it was an EA, it was a 1 sided, non sexual, EA and I could accept that because I finally was able to get this all out and in the open so I could finally deal with it so I really didn't care. She continued to place blame and I stood firm saying I made this about someone else 11 years ago and I've had to live with it (my choice), but I would no longer allow that to happen, this is about me and this is my time to work through this and try to heal. 

She asked about this forum as she thought it might help her. I showed it to her and let her read my post. After a few days she said I want you to cut off all contact with your friend or we can no longer be together. (180) If you can't completely cut her from your life, we need to get bills taken care of, sell the house, split things and move on cause I can no longer accept this. After all this, that's what she got from the forum and my thread? I again held firm and said it's 2 different issues and once again you are making this about someone else and shifting blame, and I will not allow it. I said I could cut off communication if I thought it would help, but she has been nothing more than a friend to me. She never came on to me one time, and actually told me with our history, our family, and all of the years we have together, we should try to work through this! Do you know how many people have said you've always been a "stand up guy" and have always there for your family, it's time for you?

I ended up deleting my original post because some of the comments hit her pretty hard. She cut up the leather coat he bought for her that was still in our closet. She went through our old pictures to get rid of any pictures with him, and she pulled out all of the expensive jewelry from him that was still in a box in our closet. I take blame for the jewelry being there. She was originally going to give it back and I said no way... We are talking a $3,000 or $4,000 bracelet bought on the cruise, and 2 rings loaded with diamonds, one that looked like a wedding ring with a big ass heart shaped diamond that was supposedly a limited edition. At the time I did not want him to have the satisfaction of him getting them back, I didn't want to sell them because it was his dirty money, so they were just put away and not touched or talked about...This was a very bad idea on my part and I pulled them out more than once over the years without talking about it! Talk about a trigger....

I ended up saying i was tired of the merry-go-round and I was getting off. I said I can no longer act like everything is ok and then just have this stuff keep coming back up again and again. I lived in our house with all these memories for all these years. She was trying to tell me my supposed EA was every bit as bad and painful as her affair...I disagree and told her we were friends, it was never sexual and that until I stick my d--k in someone else she doesn't have a clue! Agree or disagree, that's how I feel! 

She was trying to be honest and she finally told me that even though they did it in our house, they never did it in our bed. She then said they also went to his girlfriends place a few times, but they usually went to his house. Never knew about her place, not sure I wanted to? I am finally being honest with her, and honest with myself and my head has never been more clear, the "fog" has lifted! I started sleeping on the couch a couple weeks ago and spending more time at work and away from the house. We are being civil to each other and she has finally said she knows she was wrong, she knows it was all her and no one made her do this. She has said she is sorry and she is scared of losing me and she feels like she is losing her life ... everything. She keeps asking me if she can have a hug and I have given them to her a few times... and I still feel numb and still have no desire. 

I have told her that I still need to move forward with getting things done around the house, selling it, and we will probably get divorced. At that time we need some time apart and depending how I feel, we could maybe start dating. I said I would not even rule out remarrying at some point but our present marriage should have ended 11 years ago. I know at times our relationship has been toxic and although she counts 30 years, I started over after D-day and we both deserve better than where we are at. I don't like putting her through this and although I went through hell, she had moved on and thought it was behind us... But I tell myself, I never saw the affair coming either and it hit me like a Mack truck and no one worried about my feelings back then. It's nice finally being in the drivers seat and my destination is personal growth and being happy! If that can include her fine... if not right now it has to be "all about me"!


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> And yeah, they did sleep in your bed. Don't worry about that.
> 
> They let him come because he covered their money? Another bullsh!t story. It it was so innocent, then you would have been made aware of it. That he was going on a trip with them shouldn't have been a secret. Or she would have had her own room.
> 
> ...


Believe it or not, it really doesn't matter if they slept in our bed or where that did it... Doing it anywhere in our home, turned that "home" into a house, and although sleeping with someone else is definitely disrespectful....anywhere in our home or even his girlfriends home was like a complete FU!

The cruise..yeah I knew that was bullsh*t right from the start!

And she has said she always told him she was never going to leave me and that she knew he could never have feelings or be faithful...or something like that? Nice, big relief huh?

Porn watching...I did have an issue, but after a couple bouts of nonperformance issues, I was troubled. It was a combination of her getting flirtatious and enjoying the attention, 20 years with the same woman, and us being somewhat naive. It became an easier release with no worries... but I should have dealt with it. She supposedly felt like "you have an attractive wife laying in bed and you'd rather do that"? So she thought there must be someone else...Whatever, even if true, no excuse to go to a guys good buddy and go at it!

I posted a follow up and as much as we have in common and as much as I care, I just don't think now that I've really faced all of this that I can justify it or accept it.... and it sucks!


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

The counselling was a problem. Obviously the counseller (female?) sided with your wife and stopped her from truly being sorry for her actions. I think she has lived until now without having to truly face her mistakes. 

The idea of your EA being as bad as her physical (and emotional) affair is just another way to blame-shift, which indicates that she is still not sorry. People who are sorry own their actions and don't point fingers. It's her way of justifying her actions retrospectively. 

Her ultimatum about selling and splitting is another way for her to avoid facing her mistakes. Either she's saying that to get you to back down or she's saying it so that she can further avoid facing up and feeling sorry. Some people will do anything rather than face their own negative actions. In modern Western women, anything that "attacks their self-esteem" is to be avoided at all costs--at all costs.

Personally, I'd keep the pressure on. She needs to crack, big time, and face her mistakes, finally. If she can do that then things can heal between you. Don't let her read this or she'll fake it without really doing it.


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

MSP said:


> The counselling was a problem. Obviously the counseller (female?) sided with your wife and stopped her from truly being sorry for her actions. I think she has lived until now without having to truly face her mistakes.
> 
> The idea of your EA being as bad as her physical (and emotional) affair is just another way to blame-shift, which indicates that she is still not sorry. People who are sorry own their actions and don't point fingers. It's her way of justifying her actions retrospectively.
> 
> ...


I let her read my original thread and at first she tried shifting blame and doing a 180 on me? Saying I had to cut off all contact with my friend or we were done. Sell the house, pay bills, and split up. That didn't work because I agreed. She then did a complete 180, meaning now she says she is sorry, she will accept whatever I decide, but she loves me and wants to spend the rest of her life with me. She says she is the one who did this, she can not make it about anyone else. Did she do this because that's how she really feels, because I stood strong, because she read my original thread and read some vicious attacks on her that hit home, because she is scared? Just like the question, would she have ended the affair had I not caught her? I will never really know?


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Struggling4ever said:


> *I have told her something in me died *11 years ago and my lack of desire for sex and my performance issues back that up. *I love and care for her, but as the old saying goes...I don't know if I can be “in love" with her*......


God, how true is this. 

So sorry you went through this. I can't believe all these years you lived with that bad advice , coupled with the mental images too. Your wife should be bloody lucky you put up with so much.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Your wife is firing all the bullets in her gun---to keep her mge.

Using your friendship with another woman agst you, is just one of her bullets

If you are not in an EA----which means you make contact once in a while, and talk generally about things, then you can stand your ground

What you did, has no comparison to what she did, bringing another man right into your own home, she knew what she was doing----she has just been allowed by you, all these years, to not have to deal with it---well now she must deal with it

You have to decide what you want for your future---and who you want in your future----If it took 11 years for you to decide, you cannot go on with this woman, that is OK, if she doesn;t like it/can't handle it----toooo bad---she surely was able to handle, very nicely, all her cheating, decieving, planning, manipulating, lying, and everything else that went with making you nothing but a 2nd class nobody in her life, thru that period of time

Bottom line---do what is best for your future!!!!!!!


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

You are really a terrific person to live 11 yrs with her after her reckless, disrespectful, deceiving whoring with OM, even in your bed (don't trust her that they didnt done it on your bed TT).

You spoiled precious 11 yrs for a whoring wife. without guilt and remorse for her actions. who is still proud of her cheating and living in her fond memories of her whoring. she made you feel terrible for her actions. classical who*e.

From where you got the nuts now, i think she pushed you to curb so that you cant breath any more.

You should have escaped from her 11 yrs ago, dont waste your time on her, run away from her. 

She is still trying to manipulate you, when she really found that you had grown a pair of balls again,by accepting her fuc*king and throwing her coat now, which she should have done 11 yrs ago.
She kept it as a token of her whoring for these yrs. What a terrific lady she is? still blame shifting gas lighting OMG. I will pray not even my worst enemy should live his life with a such piece of Sh*t.

Run man before she castrate you again in the way she did it 11yrs ago. hold your balls, dont give it to her any more for castration.

I feel really sorry for you, i dont know why these kind of who*res get good men like you.


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## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

GEEZE, I'm 3 years out and thought I was screwed now. Your 11 years out and still a basket case.... Kinda zaps that hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel.. Also "Leather Coat" from him that she still had?.. Pictures of them together? Seriously.. WTF.. I can't think of a single reason why a truly remorseful person would hold on to those items.. For any reason....

I would think that just seeing them or touching those items would (should) trigger an uncontrollable guilt or shame response in an actually sincerely remorseful person. 

I think my spouse is remorseful (although I still have a ton of hate). One of the reasons being that items from the OM that had found their way into my house could shame her to tears. That initial phase after you find out and your hyper alert to anything out of place or new or anything that dude may have touched in you house. I told her that anything belonging to him best find it's way out of my home and she gathered a few dumb momentous from various places; innocent looking items that she had said she got when she was out with her girlfriends or that her work had given her, a straw hat, a 3 inch tall Raggady Ann Doll, a stuffed Micky Mouse, some clothing items etc.. and I could see that it actually hurt her to touch them; like reverse trigger so to speak or a physical reminder of what a piece of shizit she was.

A couple years later I was replacing the carpet in the bedroom (moved all the furniture out, dressers, bed etc).. and after I moved my nightstand and the bed out. There it was plain as day (lying in that little space between the wall and where the headboard just was).. a POS wrist watch. I snatched it up, took it into the living room where she was on the couch watching t.v. and sat it rather forcefully on the coffee table in front of her. She glanced at it casually at first and then went white and left the room crying (so I knew instantly).. 

I could have chased her around the house with that thing like garlic and a vampire. I told her to get it out of here and she said she did not want to touch it, it made her sick, yada, yada.. to which I replied I don't give a Fuzuck. I left for a while and said it best be gone by the time I get back.. Needless to say it was not and when I got back she was in the now empty bedroom sitting in a corner crying.. I went back in the living room grabbed the thing and tossed it into the canal out back.. Sorry for dragging on but I think there was remorse there as it was as painful for her as it was for me.. Of course I get the added bonus of imagining this smuck taking the thing off, sitting it on my nightstand, climbing into my bed and apparently rocking the bed so hard that it got knocked off and landed between the headboard and the wall..(getting mad as I type this out.. damn..) Well you get the point.. Other Dudes Stuff should not be in your house and/or the CW (cheating - crude adjective for lady of the night) should not be able to stand the sight of it.. It should feel like a dagger in her heart too...


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> You spoiled precious 11 yrs for a whoring wife. without guilt and remorse for her actions. who is still proud of her cheating and living in her fond memories of her whoring.
> 
> You should have escaped from her 11 yrs ago, dont waste your time on her, run away from her.
> 
> ...


Piece of Sh*t...*not acceptable*! But it helps me to understand the rest of your comment. 11 years were not a complete waste by any means, it was my choice, no one forced me...Regardless of your jaded "opinion", she has been a great wife since then and I didn't allow her to rugsweep and put it behind her, I allowed it and helped make it happen as the only way I could get past it. I know this now, and if you read everything you'd know this as well! These last 11 years we have had some good times and our boys were allowed to grow up in their home. I am the one who wasn't honest about my true feelings and kept it to myself. 

She now knows I can no longer be manipulated as I have finally stood up for myself and made it clear this is about me, and what she did...nothing else! I appreciate your "opinion", but you must have been really sh*t on bad to have such a vulgar outlook as I have read some of your other comments. Don't be sorry for me, I don't need your pity and I actually feel sorry for you! Why don't you try to say wh*re just a few more times in your post? lol...Seriously, get a grip! She definitely did me wrong and the memories will be there forever and yes her behaviors at that dark time in my life may have been "whorish"? But she is not. 

I watched this woman take care of my Dad and Mom when they were dieing, I was with her 4 years ago when she survived cancer and I cried like a baby when she got it and when I knew she was ok after her surgery. This is not about now...my issue is it was a horrible, earthshaking experience that hurt me to my core, and I never got over it and probably never will. I tried to accept it and move on but it was always there. So no matter what I tell myself... she still chose do do it and I need to choose whether or not I want to continue to stay with her and live with the memories.... right now I think were 2 good people who will be better off as friends? Time will tell?


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

S4E, you're doing now what you know you should have done 11 years ago that's all. Maybe if you both had parted ways then things might have turned around because you could have started healing then instead of now.

We never know what the future holds but all we can do is keep our head up and move on with our lives. Those that keep on looking down do not know what they are missing.

Like you said, you never know, the road just might lead right back to your wife down the road.


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

Bandit said:


> GEEZE, I'm 3 years out and thought I was screwed now. Your 11 years out and still a basket case.... Kinda zaps that hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel.. Also "Leather Coat" from him that she still had?.. Pictures of them together? Seriously.. WTF.. I can't think of a single reason why a truly remorseful person would hold on to those items.. For any reason....
> 
> I would think that just seeing them or touching those items would (should) trigger an uncontrollable guilt or shame response in an actually sincerely remorseful person.
> 
> Other Dudes Stuff should not be in your house and/or the CW (cheating - crude adjective for lady of the night) should not be able to stand the sight of it.. It should feel like a dagger in her heart too...


I agree on the coat and we've talked about it...She knows how I feel and i should have spoke up as well... I mean if I act like it doesn't bother me? The pics were because he became such a close (gag) family friend and did so much with us, he was in pics for years. We would have had to sit down and pull out boxes stored away and go through them. 

Our garage, basement and a couple rooms in our house could qualify for hoarders...well not quite that bad, but no organization. We chose to just bury it and not go there. No one was pulling them out and looking at them and I sure never found them anywhere near my bed or nightstand... So she wasn't touching them? 

Again, shouldn't have been there and I was a fool for allowing it. I know this...no more doormat!


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## Zak68 (Feb 14, 2012)

Struggling4ever said:


> My problem is I buried them, allowed them to fester for years, and I now feel after this long, they are there for good. I have told her something in me died 11 years ago and my lack of desire for sex and my performance issues back that up. I love and care for her, but as the old saying goes...I don't know if I can be “in love" with her......


It's been almost 3 years since DDay here and I still have triggers. Every white car I see (she told me once when they met for afternoon sex she looked forward to seeing him pull up), his name, songs on the radio, movies about affairs, sex with my wife. Too many triggers to get rid of.

I get what you say. Part of my taking my wife back was that I still loved her but I told her I don't trust her. She asked how she could get that back, I said I just don't know. I often ask myself if I can stay married to someone I don't trust, and may never trust. She's been sober 2 1/2 years and that helps but we have changed. I see her as a flawed copy of the woman I married. 

I keep hoping the triggers will go away so I can move on and reconnect fully with her but I just can't let them go. Part of me is screaming that if I do and trust her again I am just setting myself up for more pain. She told me she would never put me though that pain again. I told her she did once, that was all it took...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

To answer your thread question, for me the triggers have never completely gone away. They have lessened though. But if I hear or see something, they come back. It sucks.

Re: your situation... I remember on another thread you posted where you admitted openly to having feelings for your friend and we were all trying to get you see that that is why your wife felt the way she did about everything.

You both need to work through this (and you need to go no contact). She betrayed you with the OM and she feels you betrayed her with the co-worker you have/had feelings for. 

Marriage counselling.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Those triggers are a killer. If your R had been more sucessful and you had the proper counselor, maybe the triggers would have eased up some, and would only be a once in a while occurance. 

But, you're no longer rug sweeping, your wife seems to understand some of her role. It would depend on all the things she told you, you know? the blame shifting, is this still true? the porn thing? I found that incredible, and why she just wouldn't ask you about it, and then assume the worst. I think you both have a lot to deal with as a couple, not sure what else to say.

good luck with whatever you chose.


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> To answer your thread question, for me the triggers have never completely gone away. They have lessened though. But if I hear or see something, they come back. It sucks.
> 
> Re: your situation... I remember on another thread you posted where you admitted openly to having feelings for your friend and we were all trying to get you see that that is why your wife felt the way she did about everything.
> 
> ...


The difference is, I processed my feelings and worked through them without trying to resolve it by dropping my pants! I understand why my mind and feelings went where they did. I had someone that I could talk to, who understood what I was feeling, who had empathy and cared, but who (unlike my guy friends), told me I should get therapy to take care of me and maybe work things out. She said unlike her, we had a long history, and a family with kids together, and that although it was ongoing, it was with 1 man not multiple partners...yes I became attached, but I understood why! We rarely contact anymore, and when we do it is job, work, or friend related... 

If you or my wife feel I betrayed her...I am ok with that because I know where I have been and where my head is at now! I know at one time, I crossed a line, but it was 1 sided and I was honest about it. Also, this friend didn't cross that line...she has stayed a true friend who actually cared....nothing more! If I hadn't opened up, I would still be suffering silently with all of the memories and triggers, and my wife would be going on blindly enjoying life as if all was ok! It's not, and I'm not and it turns out I had a lot of buried and repressed feelings and emotions that had to be released... I actually feel better but my wife can't accept it. She is sweet and understanding only so long and then she blows up because she can't handle this being about what she did to me, so her self-defense kicks in and she tries to make it about what she believes I've done to her! I have been passive-aggressive my entire life and I will no longer sit back and accept it...If it was just "this friend" I could accept it, but no matter who I talk to, if she thinks the other person is attractive, she feels threatened and accuses me of cheating! I have never even held another girls hand once in 30 years...not once and yet I'm treated like the cheater? I tell her I hate that after such an ultimate betrayal I gave her my trust and yet she can't trust me. Her answer is I trust you, I just don't trust other women. My answer is, if you really trusted me, the other women shouldn't matter. No apologies... this time it's all about me!!!


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

Here is an update from my other thread. 
I finally went in for IC on Tuesday night. I feel it went well and I go back next Tuesday.

One thing I asked her was why this was so fresh now after all these years? I said on the way driving out I was thinking I wished I had come a while ago when the pain and anger was more fresh. On the way up I seriously felt ok? Well as soon as I started talking about it, my voice trembled, my eyes welled up, and I wasn't ok at all. She said let it out it's been in there a long time! Her answer to my question was that the brain is very complex and it often buries traumatic memories or events sometimes forever, and sometimes just until a time when we are more capable of dealing with things. She said you have probably matured and grown a lot during these years, events happened that led up to all this and now it's finally coming out and that's good. I got out most of my story as well as how I have been passive-aggressive since being a child and dealing with the affair this time around is the first time I have been assertive and have stood up for myself pretty much ever. I told her of this forum and she was glad to know I was on here and said it is healthy to find I'm not alone...although I am somewhat alone in my extended delayed reaction to finally admitting to how this has affected me and changed who I am!

After the session my wife wanted to know how it went and I was somewhat vague....I have been and I have tried to keep distance without being an ass. The last time we went dancing (basically her line dancing and me having a beer talking with a few people and maybe getting out there for a few), I bought her, myself, and 2 girls (regulars that she dances with) a beer. It started because someone mentioned a Blue Moon with an orange slice, one girl said I don't know if I'd like that, the other said oh they are very good! I said if you want to try it I will buy the first round. I included myself, both girls, and my wife....Although this is somewhat common and friends are always buying a round for others (including us)...because 1 of the girls is somewhat attractive and therefore threatening to my wife...I could tell she was upset. Again, the old me would have said I'm sorry or I won't do it again, or maybe not even do it in the first place? But I knew I was doing nothing wrong so I wasn't gonna let it bother me. She didn't say anything to me, but she wrote her thoughts out on a paper and left it where I would see it talking about how she was not happy about me buying drinks for other girls? Again, we as well as others have bought drinks before, it wasn't that I did it, it was that she felt threatened... I get it, but the rules only changed, not because I did it, but because of who it was. Yet she talks to this girl, hugs her, acts friendly with her and I'm not supposed to say hi? After it came out that she was upset, I finally said I will no longer go there unless you give me a list of who I can talk to and who I can't. I said I have been standing there talking with 1 of your friends before and you walk away to dance or go outside and have come back in and you've gotten mad 2 other times before over 2 other girls (all her friends), but then other times you're fine? I don't get it but it is not fun for me to stand there by myself watching everyone have fun and actually have people ask me "are you ok?" or "you could at least smile", so I will stay home as I know that is your fun and I don't want to ruin it. She says no that's not what I want and I need to learn from my insecurities. I tell her I am still tired of not being trusted after giving her trust....I have a pretty good track record! She is on her way home to talk but I will continue this later...and trust me...the insanity continues, and yes...still sleeping in an adjacent room and she is not happy about that either!


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

And here's update part 2;
Ok...well after the above night I said I will no longer go there... I stopped in again last Wednesday (that's a night all her/our friends are there with free lessons and no cover). I was just having a drink that a friend (guy) bought me and planned on staying for an hour or so. My wife was dancing having a good time and I decided to do a walk around the bar to see if any friends that I knew might be there. My older son has many friends that go to this place as well and they often like to say hi. As I walk around the corner I see the woman (one of them anyway) that apparently my wife feels threatened by. I said hi and said I haven't been here in awhile, the last time was a week and a half ago when we had the Blue Moons...she said yeah I've been working a lot that was the last time I was here too. I said well have a good night, and I proceeded to walk around the outer perimeter of the dance floor and eventually made my way back where I started. I had 1 more drink and went home. Nothing more was said that night...

A couple nights later I had shown my wife and son a new software update on their phones and they started the update. I was playing guitar in the living room and also checking my phone and my wife was having problems with the download for her update and was mumbling about it and I stopped and went in to help. I then went back in to the living room and she was again having a problem. I actually started to get irritated and I yelled give me a minute, I'm checking my phone! The calm finally ended and she went off about me being on my phone and me enjoying my space, and me having my private life.etc, etc, etc... She actually was upset enough she said F you (which doesn't often happen) and I said it back and I retreated upstairs.

That night as I was getting ready for bed (in my room), she finally came in and unloaded on me...She said I was sneaking around and I'm a cheater as well, she called me a thief (because of a few items I bought home from work that were being discarded, as well as something that had been left there by my friend who had quit and moved away), she called me manipulative, a liar....and this went on and on! She also then brought up last Wednesday when we we were at the "dancehall/saloon" and she said I saw how you managed to sneak around the corner to talk to #@**#, I watched you! You thought cause I was dancing I wouldn't notice but you went around the corner, talked to her, and then walked around the entire bar thinking I wouldn't notice! I said, wow...you actually were watching me the entire time weren't you? I told her I did nothing wrong and that although she claims to not trust the "girls", in reality she doesn't trust me, because if she did they would be a non-issue! I tried to reason and she would say - that's right, you are mr. perfect who never does anything wrong, you have an answer for everything! I also tried to explain about the equipment and said I could have done all that behind her back too if I was trying to be sneaky or do something wrong, but no it was all in the open, we went together to a gathering of friends and I dropped it off...(we even took pictures) so again...I always thought everything was ok and now I find she was harboring resentment over that as well, and now I am a thief too?!! 

Because of her verbal assault, I almost left again that night but I really have nowhere to go and right now we have no extra money! I stayed, she eventually went to sleep and we have been back to not saying much to each other. We started to talk yesterday but she actually started in about how she thought she was ok with the past situation with my friend from work who moved away over 6 months ago, but apparently she's not and was making all of our issues about me again! I said you are just not ok with me in general and it all comes down to you did me wrong big time...I forgave you and gave you trust, and you can't/don't trust me! I then re-enforced that I will not allow her to make our problems about me and what she believes I've done, this is about what happened in the past and I am finally dealing with it whether she can accept it or not... I had plans to go out on my own last night but a mutual friend stopped over to help my son with a "project bike" and we all just hung out at home and then to bed...alone. Today is a new day!


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Zak68 said:


> It's been almost 3 years since DDay here and I still have triggers. Every white car I see (she told me once when they met for afternoon sex she looked forward to seeing him pull up), his name, songs on the radio, movies about affairs, sex with my wife. Too many triggers to get rid of.
> 
> I get what you say. Part of my taking my wife back was that I still loved her but I told her I don't trust her. She asked how she could get that back, I said I just don't know. I often ask myself if I can stay married to someone I don't trust, and may never trust. She's been sober 2 1/2 years and that helps but we have changed. I see her as a flawed copy of the woman I married.
> 
> I keep hoping the triggers will go away so I can move on and reconnect fully with her but I just can't let them go. Part of me is screaming that if I do and trust her again I am just setting myself up for more pain. She told me she would never put me though that pain again. I told her she did once, that was all it took...


I know exactly what you mean about too many triggers.... Her name, his job, everytime his phone beeps, everytime he gives me a compliment.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Sounds like she's angry that you're giving yourself some space from her. Maybe she's used to getting her own way??

I think when one person in a couple has an affair and they realize how easy it is to get wrapped up in it, they could become worried about their spouse doing the same thing, or seeking revenge. It's tough that all this stuff is coming up so many years later.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

No disrespect intended, but why are you a glutton for punishment?


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

She's scared right now because she knows that she's probably gonna lose you and she has no idea what she needs to do anymore to win you back.

Her not trusting you is because she knows what she did and that is was she is afraid of, that you'll do the same to her that she did to you.

BTW, with you living in the same house with her, you'll never heal at all and it'll just get worse and worse and worse as time goes by no matter how much counseling/therapy you get. If you need to get away and just think things through, find a buddy that can take you in for the short term. Do a mini-separation from the wife just so that you can think clearly about what you want to do next.

You're hurting, she's scared and your son is confused. Not the best of situations for a family to be in.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Sorry you guys are having so many problems right now. It sounds like you are at the end of your rope. The triggers can get pretty bad. But they are supposed to fade and yours are magnifying. Most likely because you didn't handle it well 11 years ago. What kind of MC doesn't deal with an affair??

I just want to be honest and give a devil's advocate view...

Don't think no contact lets you off the hook. You did betray your wife. So she has a set of triggers too. I know it isn't the same as "dropping your pants" but you have both gone outside the marriage to meet your needs instead of turning to each other. And you are now in a chicken-or-the-egg battle over who started it.

And the blame needs to tamper down. You are holding her responsible for your feelings and actions when you say, "Because of her verbal assault, I almost left again"

Is this after you "retreated" away from her after another fight earlier? OK to cool off, not OK if you never address the problems. And the porn? Um, yes you were choosing that over your wife, and it no doubt contributed to her feeling like crap if she knew about it.

If she is overemotional and you are withdrawn, this pattern reinforces itself through its polarity. The emotional level is so high.

Sorry to say that in my humble opinion a lot of your suffering is self inflicted. You don't seem to know what you want. Do you want to save your marriage or divorce? 

What do you want? To be left alone? To punish her? To leave? It kinda sounds like you have given up. What do you really really want? To be with the girl who moved away? The girl at the bar? Your wife? Do you know? 

You two have avoided problems and turned to others for so long, you basically have an emotional divorce. Its really too bad because there is a whole family involved. I hope you find what you want soon, so you can move on to a place of restoration and healing, no matter what you decide.

Maybe you just want out, and were sitting on the unresolved affair as your "ace in the hole".....How could you deal with that for 11 years?


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Some people are addicted to their drama. Are you sure you are not one of them?


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> Sorry you guys are having so many problems right now. It sounds like you are at the end of your rope. The triggers can get pretty bad. But they are supposed to fade and yours are magnifying. Most likely because you didn't handle it well 11 years ago. What kind of MC doesn't deal with an affair??
> 
> *They were always there...I know they will always be there. I am seriously just a decent guy who even though I had my heart crushed, did not want to hurt my wife. I still don't! I regret holding feelings in, and it has affected me to my core.*
> 
> ...


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

chaos said:


> Some people are addicted to their drama. Are you sure you are not one of them?


Really? You think that? Sorry.. I try to keep my life as drama free as possible, but there has been enough of it in my family. I just want peace in my life. I need to put this behind me one way or the other. I just got bad advice from a marriage councilor years ago..I do my best to enjoy every day and I take care of my wife and family. Our only problem has been being sexually incompatible. She wants me (in my mind since the affair, I believe she just wants sex)... If I don't catch her in the morning it rarely works right, because I know she will at some point call out my name and it's an instant trigger because I hear his name! That's the only trigger I can't live with. Our sex life has gone from great to ok, to bad, to worse, and she still says it's ok as long as she has me? She still get's very wet. My problem is, I can't enjoy it, or believe it - because of what she did! I know she's a sexual person and I believ she deserves someone that is into her...I might regret it and it could be the worst decision I ever make, but somethings got to change and God knows I've tried! If you want to call that being addicted to drama...fine. I don't think drama has anything to do with it!


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

I don't think Struggling is addicted to drama at all. After my wife revealed her affair I buried my feelings. But I couldn't hold them in for 11 years. They burst through after just a few months. That was when I unleashed a torrent of rage, verbal and emotional abuse that still scares me to this day. Burying your feelings is never good and in this case it was the f'ing MC that forced it. As a result Struggling was never allowed to deal with the grief of his loss in a healthy way. He needs to work through his emotions just like if it happened yesterday because in his mind that's exactly what happened. And if he should decide to divorce then that is his right. There is no statute of limitations on infidelity.

That said I really hope his wife starts to deal with this they way it should have been dealt with 11 years ago. If she does then maybe they can still deal with it and move on. The problem is that her affair was rugswept and I'm not sure she wants to lift the rug and look at what was buried all those years ago.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Sorry S4E -- I never meant to offend anyone.....Really sorry....told you I was gonna play devil's advocate cuz it seemed like you wanted to talk and no -- I have only read this one thread of yours.

Just was wondering what would motivate a person to let something like that go for so long, that's all. I think it would have gotten to me way sooner, I think most posters would agree....11 years is a long time to deal with something like that by keeping it inside. I really couldn't imagine how you have been able to do that. 

I'm really sorry you have been going through all this. But you guys are playing "who's affair was worse", no one wins that game.

Peace to you.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> Sorry S4E -- I never meant to offend anyone.....Really sorry....told you I was gonna play devil's advocate cuz it seemed like you wanted to talk and no -- I have only read this one thread of yours.
> 
> Just was wondering what would motivate a person to let something like that go for so long, that's all. I think it would have gotten to me way sooner, I think most posters would agree....11 years is a long time to deal with something like that by keeping it inside. I really couldn't imagine how you have been able to do that.
> 
> ...


Where did you see that Struggling had an affair? I understood he had a friendship with a woman that his wife knew about. I understood there was an attraction to that woman but we as humans have no control over who we are attracted to. I also understood that Struggling ended the friendship because he saw it was heading in a bad direction. Am I mistaken? Maybe I am confused.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Struggling4ever said:


> And here's update part 2;
> Ok...well after the above night I said I will no longer go there... I stopped in again last Wednesday (that's a night all her/our friends are there with free lessons and no cover). I was just having a drink that a friend (guy) bought me and planned on staying for an hour or so. My wife was dancing having a good time and I decided to do a walk around the bar to see if any friends that I knew might be there. My older son has many friends that go to this place as well and they often like to say hi. As I walk around the corner I see the woman (one of them anyway) that apparently my wife feels threatened by. I said hi and said I haven't been here in awhile, the last time was a week and a half ago when we had the Blue Moons...she said yeah I've been working a lot that was the last time I was here too. I said well have a good night, and I proceeded to walk around the outer perimeter of the dance floor and eventually made my way back where I started. I had 1 more drink and went home. Nothing more was said that night...
> 
> A couple nights later I had shown my wife and son a new software update on their phones and they started the update. I was playing guitar in the living room and also checking my phone and my wife was having problems with the download for her update and was mumbling about it and I stopped and went in to help. I then went back in to the living room and she was again having a problem. I actually started to get irritated and I yelled give me a minute, I'm checking my phone! The calm finally ended and she went off about me being on my phone and me enjoying my space, and me having my private life.etc, etc, etc... She actually was upset enough she said F you (which doesn't often happen) and I said it back and I retreated upstairs.
> ...


I am chilled by the way you talk about your wife. If you are only in your marriage nominally why don't you end it? You really don't act like you have forgiven anyone. It's like you are playing cats paw with her. I think some of your marital problems may just be about you. Does the term passive aggressive ring any bells?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

What do you want? Courage to file for divorce? An epiphanyfor you and/or your wife? A miracle cure for baldness? What?


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

morituri said:


> What do you want? Courage to file for divorce? An epiphanyfor you and/or your wife? A miracle cure for baldness? What?


Applause?


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks for all of the support and understanding?....We have only been sleeping apart for about 1 month and I have my next therapy session tomorrow night...how long did it take all of you to figure things out and either move on or accept it? Even my Therapist said in cases of something as traumatic as this, the brain can bury things or find ways to rationalize it until your ready to deal with it. The triggers were always there and I just accepted them because that's all I knew. It wasn't until my wife accused me of an affair and I denied it and finally told her what really troubled me that these repressed feelings all came out! When I heard her say if your affair isn't physical, then it is emotional and that is every bit as bad I snapped.....There was no affair! There was confusion on my part! I have owned up to it and moved on! Please read my original thread that I edited down because everyone was being too harsh and tell me it was not horrid how I found out!!! I can't for the life of me figure out how I accepted it, how I put it behind me, and how I moved forward? Now that it's all out and I'm finally dealing with it, I can't talk about it without crying, I go through anger, hurt, and back to anger again. The biggest problem is the guilt, I begged her to stay, she did and I believe she's faithful and I just can't let it go! I don't want a divorce....but I feel I will have to get one for her or I to have any chance at real happiness and it sucks!!! That's why I'm finally seeing a Therapist on my own! Beowulf...Thank you, you're kind words of support are needed and appreciated!


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

morituri said:


> What do you want? Courage to file for divorce? An epiphanyfor you and/or your wife? A miracle cure for baldness? What?


Maybe a little understanding, advice, or just someone to listen while I figure this out? Sorry to have bothered you


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

oaksthorne said:


> Applause?


Wow....Thanks for all of the support and understanding....it's appreciated? lol


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

oaksthorne said:


> I am chilled by the way you talk about your wife. If you are only in your marriage nominally why don't you end it? You really don't act like you have forgiven anyone. It's like you are playing cats paw with her. I think some of your marital problems may just be about you. Does the term passive aggressive ring any bells?


I think you need to re-read things? Most everyone else seems to admire how I talk about my wife (especially considering what I went through). I deleted my original post because of the harshness of the comments, remember? What do you mean "if I'm only in my marriage nominally"? I can't take time to finally work through these repressed feelings? Really? I have admitted some of the problems are about me...that's a given! And I have also said I have found myself to be passive aggressive my entire life and this is the first time I've ever really stood up for myself not just in marriage, but in life in general so I'm not sure where this is all coming from?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

From what I see, you still care deeply for your wife but you no longer desire her sexually ever since she had her affair. You are still hurting because you chose to rug swept her affair instead of dealing with it, as you should have, after it concluded. To compound this, your wife's actions to turn the tables, do little to help you recover and wish to continue with the marriage.

You must make a choice. Continue living in a loveless marriage and run the risk that your wife will cheat on you again when the opportunity presents itself to her. Or you can choose to end your marriage once and for all in order for you to emotionally recover and move on with your life. Which of the two shall it be?


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Struggling,

I know we can only glean so much from any thread, probably only a partial understanding of what is really going on, even though you appear to try real hard to show your wife's point of view. Still, your situation is really very complex. I think that your mind is circling around a truth, but unable to see it because you are not sure what you are looking for. In my opinion, by you being railroaded into forgiving without even coming to terms with her betrayal, it made it harder for you to see the truth that she is declaring loudly right now. Look at her response when you only talk to another woman. Look at how she flips on a dime and unloads such cruel words. 

You can hang on forever and try to prove that there is some depth to her real love for you. Maybe you're hoping that these periods where she shows her true self through jealousy and contempt for you are just 'not really who she is', but I suspect that you'll see more of it as time passes. She got what she wanted at the time of the affair - her experiencing the best of both worlds. Soon, I can't help but wonder if she'll say that there's just too much unforgiveness in your heart, and how could any woman live with that?

I'm afraid that you are finding what many other men on this site also find when they instinctively sweep their wife's betrayal under the rug, or the women who do the same when their husband cheats. Your wife can't even forgive you for making eye contact with another woman. She can't tolerate having to experience consequences for her betrayal, feeling almost justified now that the years have passed. Just answer one simple question for yourself - would she be capable of giving so deeply to you that she would be able to grant the forgiveness that she expected of you? If you went on that cruise and carried on a pretend marriage with another woman, would she have considered forgiveness if she had other financial means? I'm afraid that you are facing a very simple question - you saw your marriage as a two person journey, one where you carried her when she was weak. Did she? She's giving very little indication that she wouldn't have just left you by the wayside at any time, even now. That's why I feel so sad for some of the ones who come here. Many are on a one man marriage journey with a partner who will simply cast them aside if things get tough, and they're too afraid to ask the questions that you are asking. And yes, there are women, many women, who view marriage just like you do.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Hey B...

I only said this because he says they are now fighting about/ and blaming each other for - - - their affairs.

I realize she had a "real" affair -- not him , but then he says:

*If she wants to believe that my friendship is an EA, fine then it’s a non sexual EA.*

Who would tell their spouse this if it wasn't true? IMO, his wife has seen him turning to this "friend" to open up and talk to (instead of his wife)---isn't that an EA? Not as bad as her by a long shot. But still, why say something like that? 

I realize that this is a longstanding problem and his wife has behaved in awful ways. But he is holding a lot of anger toward her, for a REALLY LONG TIME. And holds her responsible. And until he takes responsibility for the anger back from her, nothing will change.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

And I agree with whoever said it is like he is playing cat's paw with her. Enough already, reconcile or divorce her!


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> Hey B...
> 
> I only said this because he says they are now fighting about/ and blaming each other for - - - their affairs.
> 
> ...


But doesn't she have to show remorse for her affair before he can take back the anger? She's pulling a Jekyll and Hyde routine on him so he can't see whether she is remorseful or not. Personally I don't think he can work through his feelings by being around her. I think he needs a separation to get his head together. If while they're separated she goes all Hannibal Lecter on him then he can proceed toward divorce. If it shocks her into reality and she starts behaving the way a remorseful wife should then he can consider a new marriage with her. Either way it will end this limbo. Just my opinion.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> And I agree with whoever said it is like he is playing cat's paw with her. Enough already, reconcile or divorce her!


Who gets to define the statute of limitations on infidelity, especially when the one who is betrayed is not allowed to process the betrayal?

My only real concern with this reply, and I mean it respectfully, is that it makes it sound like the wife is a hapless victim in all this. She is an adult who cheated, and she could've taken this as an opportunity to help him process the delayed trauma. Instead, she attacks him verbally. Yest, she said that she would support him, but she had a very definate limit on how far she would let that go. What is Struggling supposed to make of this except for the fact that she is unwilling to to help him as he struggles with her actions? Her actions stand upon their own. Just because she wants to build up a case that he had an EA over a few brief discussions, it doesn't take away from the fact that she intentionally pursued a deep, sexual relationship with another man, and abandoned him emotionally when it comes to helping him cope with the betrayal.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Halien said:


> Who gets to define the statute of limitations on infidelity, especially when the one who is betrayed is not allowed to process the betrayal?
> 
> My only real concern with this reply, and I mean it respectfully, is that it makes it sound like the wife is a hapless victim in all this. She is an adult who cheated, and she could've taken this as an opportunity to help him process the delayed trauma. Instead, she attacks him verbally. Yest, she said that she would support him, but she had a very definate limit on how far she would let that go. What is Struggling supposed to make of this except for the fact that she is unwilling to to help him as he struggles with her actions? Her actions stand upon their own. Just because she wants to build up a case that he had an EA over a few brief discussions, it doesn't take away from the fact that she intentionally pursued a deep, sexual relationship with another man, and abandoned him emotionally when it comes to helping him cope with the betrayal.


I agree 100%! He was never allowed to process anything and she has been showing little or no remorse....My only point is that their relationship seems to have devolved into a blaming match of affairs, in other words, Other People. I feel that she is making more out of what he did, to make things more "even" for her in her own mind.

I also think she is acting this way because he had put up with her betrayal for YEARS, then she noticed he was getting close with the female friend, and is flipping out now, fearing the worst, knowing her past will give him fuel for his own affair. His anger compounds this. 

Since he withdraws from her -- and I think she may be totally unstable emotionally at these times (i believe S4E stated this was so bad he could not reason with her)-- She is left to wonder what is going on, so she thinks of the friend, the girls at the bar, the porn, etc. 

Actually, they are both acting like victims to some extent. She certainly isn't owning her own S***, that's for sure. And he isn't owning his response. As far as I can tell she cheated 11 YEARS AGO, and it is only coming out because he was getting too close to a friend (which jelly says he admitted on another thread he had feelings for). 

Hey, I realize the anger, the injustice, the pain. I get it. All my friends think my H and I are the perfect couple, too. I don't want a divorce either. But I put papers on the table at the first HINT of infidelity. My unremorseful partner woke up right away -- he said he did not want it, so we are in R. Before the papers = not much remorse + a lot of blame-shifting. It hurts everyone involved.

S4E, I hope you do see that you have to let go of the disrespect, the disloyalty that was done to you, eventually. She has been so disrespectful of you, her marriage vows and herself.....this would make anyone angry. Righteous anger is still anger......But you know the saying...

Anger is like drinking a poison, hoping the other will die.

I would put a separation agreement on the table, S4E needs his life back, and I thought she asked for a divorce and he agreed? There is so much more love and good people in the world. What is wrong with simply saying, "I love you so much, I am tired of the fighting and really wish you the best"? It is hard, but it can be done, and when you just -- Let Go -- you find yourself, and a life that has healing and vitality! I think S4E has waited long enough and deserves this for himself.


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

Thank you for your honest and supportive insight. I have my second therapy session tonight and I will see how it goes. One clarification...My actual response to my wife was "if I was having an affair, it was a 1 sided non-sexual affair". There was never any reciprocation...it was all in my head....but yes I did own up to my misguided feelings, I worked through them, I understand how and why it happened and I am glad it happened and once the "fog" lifted I saw things clearer than I have seen for over 10 years, I can't explain it any other way. Obviously no one here really knows me or her, but she has come to me and asked me what she can do to help me, and what I need from her. I have told her I don't know, right now I just need space to figure things out. This is difficult for me but hard on her too. It came out of left field for her and she thought we were ok. Kind of like how I thought we were ok before I found her on the cruise with my/our friend! Maybe I am toying with her, I'm not sure? That is one of the things I am addressing in counciling. I seriously have always been somewhat passive - aggressive and have always been a doormat. This is probably 1 of the first times in our marriage that I have stood my ground and it actually feels good. I feel somewhat in control for a change? I can't go back to where we were, and after being with someone for 30 years, I'm not sure where forward is either. I am hoping therapy and seeing what others experience on here will help me make the right decision for me.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Struggling4ever said:


> Thank you for your honest and supportive insight. I have my second therapy session tonight and I will see how it goes. One clarification...My actual response to my wife was "if I was having an affair, it was a 1 sided non-sexual affair". There was never any reciprocation...it was all in my head....but yes I did own up to my misguided feelings, I worked through them, I understand how and why it happened and I am glad it happened and once the "fog" lifted I saw things clearer than I have seen for over 10 years, I can't explain it any other way. Obviously no one here really knows me or her, but she has come to me and asked me what she can do to help me, and what I need from her. I have told her I don't know, right now I just need space to figure things out. This is difficult for me but hard on her too. It came out of left field for her and she thought we were ok. Kind of like how I thought we were ok before I found her on the cruise with my/our friend! Maybe I am toying with her, I'm not sure? That is one of the things I am addressing in counciling. I seriously have always been somewhat passive - aggressive and have always been a doormat. This is probably 1 of the first times in our marriage that I have stood my ground and it actually feels good. I feel somewhat in control for a change? I can't go back to where we were, and after being with someone for 30 years, I'm not sure where forward is either. I am hoping therapy and seeing what others experience on here will help me make the right decision for me.


Win Win situations are the ones that succeed. Your feeling of being in control is an illusion. Both of you have to get what you want from the relationship, or you have the same lopsided relationship with a different fall guy. I wish you both success.


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

oaksthorne said:


> Win Win situations are the ones that succeed. Your feeling of being in control is an illusion. Both of you have to get what you want from the relationship, or you have the same lopsided relationship with a different fall guy. I wish you both success.


Thank you!


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Struggling4ever said:


> Thank you!


Mazel Tov


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

Still sleeping in a separate room and had 2 weeks of therapy. I am actually looking forward to week 3 and would go 2 times a week if I could afford it. I think it will help me. 

Last night we went out together for St. Patty's Day to watch a friends band. After a few pints of light beer and a shot, I come out of the bathroom and she was talking with 2 guys I didn't know. Both men and women gravitate to her and she usually meets several new people or couples when we are out and often ends the night with the other women saying we need to get together again sometime, this was fun. She was trying to show the guy how to spin when dancing (which is a very simple move that pretty much anyone can do without instruction). I sit down as I watch her grab his hands trying to spin him around and I'm thinking here we go...... After about 10 or 15 minutes she is introducing this guy to me and everyone at our table and she sits down. 

After awhile everyone was dancing so she got up to dance and of course this same young guy was getting drunk out of his mind and he heads right towards her to dance. He went to put his hands on her and she looked somewhat freaked out and came back to sit down. I said nothing, I just sat back to watch the "situation" she created for herself unfold. Every time she got up, he would head for her and she'd sit back down! I finally said "I thought you wanted to dance, why don't you"? She said that's ok...then she asked if I wanted to dance. I went up and danced a few songs and wasn't really feeling it, so I sat back down. She tried dancing but this same guy kept trying to move in on her and the girl she was dancing with and she was obviously moving to avoid him. She finally came back to the table. Fortunately we stopped drinking earlier or I'm sure it would have been different and I would have stepped in? 

Anyway her friend got these large pink beads from the singer in the band (one of our friends) and he said these are the only one's like this in here so hang onto them. Probably an hour later, my wife is standing up talking to another guy we don't know right behind me and she shows me her matching pink beads he gave her! I said, "you didn't just ask that guy for those beads did you"??? She said yeah.....they were told her friend had the only pink beads and these matched so she wanted them so her and her friend would have matching beads, so she explained this to the guy and he gave them to her. I just said...someone has something you don't and you just have to have it huh? 

I was thinking to myself, I go into a bar where we are with our friends and I catch **** if I say hi to the wrong girl, or if I talk to someone too long, and she talks to strangers who are drunk and ask guys she doesn't even know for beads and it's ok? This is bullsh*t!!! And my mood goes south! I was just somewhat quiet after that until we left. On the way home I said " I saw what happened tonight with the young drunk guy who kept trying to get by you on the dance floor, you know you brought that all on yourself tonight don't you?" She said what are you talking about...and I explained what I had observed when I came out of the bathroom and that it took her more than 10 or 15 minutes before she even realized I was just sitting there when she decided to introduce her new friend to our table". She said she was saying hi to a girl at that table and the girl introduced her to everyone and her and the guy started talking so she thought she should introduce him. I told her I was not happy and that she doesn't need to be grabbing someones hands to spin them around or asking drunken strangers for beads. Of course she turned it all around and yelled at me saying I was the one who decided to leave our bedroom and she is not going to go back to where she was not able to be herself. She is going to be herself and have fun! I said some things never change. You get mad at me and I apologize...I get mad at you and you turn it around and get mad back at me and in the past I would still apologize...those days are gone! She said you don't need to apologize! 

Last night was an "aha moment" for me, some things just never do change! I think our problem all along has been boundary issues...I have to have them, she makes her own.... I can't do this anymore. As sad as it is, I am trying to keep something together that simply doesn't work! She is a fun, beautiful, and an awesome person....but I am to insecure to handle her outgoing nature after what happened in our past. I on the other hand want to be more outgoing, but I can't do that around her without feeling uncomfortable and creating more drama that I don't want or need. I now realize the pattern needs to be broken and I need to initiate the change... to be continued!


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

morituri said:


> From what I see, you still care deeply for your wife but you no longer desire her sexually ever since she had her affair. You are still hurting because you chose to rug swept her affair instead of dealing with it, as you should have, after it concluded. To compound this, your wife's actions to turn the tables, do little to help you recover and wish to continue with the marriage.
> 
> You must make a choice. Continue living in a loveless marriage and run the risk that your wife will cheat on you again when the opportunity presents itself to her. Or you can choose to end your marriage once and for all in order for you to emotionally recover and move on with your life. Which of the two shall it be?


I appreciate your wisdom and incite... Give me a month and I believe i will know. Believe it or not, after all this i think I want to make things work, then we go out for a night and I realize there are probably too many layers on this onion to ever find a way to move on together without rug sweeping everything and starting clean. I can't do that, and she can only do it selectively....meaning i don't bring up her past, but mine will always be there... I don't see this working


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

Halien said:


> Struggling,
> 
> I know we can only glean so much from any thread, probably only a partial understanding of what is really going on, even though you appear to try real hard to show your wife's point of view. Still, your situation is really very complex. * I think that your mind is circling around a truth, but unable to see it because you are not sure what you are looking for.* In my opinion, by you being railroaded into forgiving without even coming to terms with her betrayal, it made it harder for you to see the truth that she is declaring loudly right now. * Look at her response when you only talk to another woman. Look at how she flips on a dime and unloads such cruel words. *
> 
> ...


:iagree:I (unfortunately) feel you have hit the proverbial nail on the head! And the answer to your question (bold and underlined)....would be a big fat NO!!! We have talked about it. She can't even rug sweep or let go of what she calls my EA. Again, I have said if it was an EA, it was a 1 sided, non-sexual EA because there was no reciprocation and it was not about "hooking up".... it was a friend who understood my situation and on occasion just listened. Since I started Therapy and have someone else to talk to about things I realized that was what it was....just support and therapy. I am glad I started this, and I realize this is not all her or me...We both have our issues, but I am working on me.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> Last night we went out together for St. Patty's Day to watch a friends band. After a few pints of light beer and a shot, I come out of the bathroom and she was talking with 2 guys I didn't know. Both men and women gravitate to her and she usually meets several new people or couples when we are out and often ends the night with the other women saying we need to get together again sometime, this was fun. She was trying to show the guy how to spin when dancing (which is a very simple move that pretty much anyone can do without instruction). I sit down as I watch her grab his hands trying to spin him around and I'm thinking here we go...... After about 10 or 15 minutes she is introducing this guy to me and everyone at our table and she sits down.


Lack of social boundaries is a trait that many waywards must share. My wife is exactly the same as yours. People can sense boundaries, and when a person has none, they attract hounddogs by the pack, especially where there is alcohol involved. 

After my wife and reconciled the first time, we would go out clubbing. I would be at the bar or coming out of the restroom and there she would be, on the dancefloor, dancing away with some horny drunken chulo with his hands on her hips and butt. She didn't mind at all, in fact she'd just keep laughing and flirting. Then on the drive home we would have the big fight, she would accuse me of overreacting and we would go the whole next day without speaking to each other. The first go-round with her affair and the fallout afterwards taught her nothing. I should have divorced her back then. 

I don't know how you and your wife are going to get past this. My thought is the two of you should cool it with the honky-tonkin' and find some other social outlet. Any place that has horny men and lots of booze is a bad place for a married woman whose marriage is on the rocks to be. Can't believe this has not occured to her.

But that is the mindset of a wayward is it not?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Lack of social boundaries is a trait that many waywards must share. My wife is exactly the same as yours. People can sense boundaries, and when a person has none, they attract hounddogs by the pack, especially where there is alcohol involved.
> 
> After my wife and reconciled the first time, we would go out clubbing. I would be at the bar or coming out of the restroom and there she would be, on the dancefloor, dancing away with some horny drunken chulo with his hands on her hips and butt. She didn't mind at all, in fact she'd just keep laughing and flirting. Then on the drive home we would have the big fight, she would accuse me of overreacting and we would go the whole next day without speaking to each other. The first go-round with her affair and the fallout afterwards taught her nothing. I should have divorced her back then.
> 
> ...


I would agree with you that they shouldn't go to places where this type of behavior can occur but somehow I don't think struggling's wife would agree to do that. After all she said she wants to be herself. If I were struggling I would ask her what she's sees herself being.

Struggling, 11 years ago you rugswept because you received poor advice from a MC. However, now you're torturing yourself for no good reason. You refuse to put your foot down and assert your rights as a husband and a man. And you are reluctant to pull the plug and find someone who can truly make you happy. I really feel bad that you are going through all this but somehow I feel like it really isn't necessary. Mori is right. You have to make a choice. This limbo you are keeping yourself in is destroying your soul.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

In the various situations behind this thread, you've seen some dramatic differences in how she views you versus how she views herself. Seems pretty obvious that the rules that she holds you to don't apply to her. In particular, I would consider using the dance as a case study, and explain how such an attitude must've led her to her affair years ago, but her 'rules' for you make it impossible. My opinion? Ask her if she will energetically accept those same expectations for herself forever, and get real reconcialation? Ask her if she would be willing to spell out the wrong in acting as she did with these men, and describe every situation as you do so. My point, and I'm sorry to suggest so, is that she has set herself and her needs at a higher level than your own. I suspect that her affair, and the role you were forced to accept after this, only cemented it. I'm not saying that she shouldn't be able to get to know these men superficially, but only suggesting that you have finally seen what the real problem is in the relationship. The freedom that she has granted herself will make it hard for you to ever sense that she is as committed to you and the marriage as you are.

In other words, she wants you to always be forcused on her. For herself, though, she feels trapped by that same devotion. I do think it is possible to find a healthy level of mutual devotion. She first has to really see it as it is, though. Keep in mind that she could've used this night for reconciliation with you. When a husband has taken the first step towards divorce, you'd almost expect her to be glued to your side. I wonder why she chose a different approach?


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

I switched along time ago to S4E and the last post on here was almost 14 months ago! I just re-read all of this and your comments all make so much more sense to me now! We have been sleeping in separate rooms for about 9 weeks now (this time). We do go out on occasion but not too often as each time she seems to get her hopes up and I have to push back. I have told her I need to move out for awhile so I can base my decision on what is best for me instead of basing it on feeling guilty. She believes that once I move out, I will not come back and it will be over. I tell her that if that is what happens, then that is what's meant to be. This has been a long and hard journey, but I can't sit on this fence any longer - it's too painful. We have mutual friends who keep asking if we want to go on motorcycle rides.. I have been saying no, but her standard answer is if I'm going she will ride on the back with me. She has her own bike that she used to ride, I'm guessing she will either need to start riding it again, or find another backseat. I can't get pulled back in. Her birthday is coming up in about a month and she asked about a ride that day too. I believe it's time for me to fly...


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

"Do triggers and memories ever go away?"

Mine are fading significantly, but that's because I am divorcing my stbxww. I am sure they would never go away if I was to remain married to her.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

You understand it more, but for me NO , it never stops. But I am a little crazy!


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Honestly, the only way those triggers will ever go away is if you end your marriage. I'm not advocating divorce by all means, but in your case, it's been 11 years of pain and suffering, and it doesn't seem like it's getting any better. Why do you stay, you talked about leaving a long time ago in your old thread?? what keeps you there? and if you wish things could be different, then you either work on it and get a really good therapist, or leave. You're in limbo, and it's not healthy.

Only a few marriages can make it through infidility, and even then I question if they are really happy, and when they say their marriage is stronger, I'm not so sure I can believe it. I'm not cynical at all, just a realist.


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