# Is this okay? Not okay? Kind of okay?



## Render (Apr 18, 2010)

I wrote before asking about how I can persuade my husband to be intimate with me more often. I stated then that he did view pornography. We have had sex once in the past month. Two days ago I was laying on the bed working on a project with him (his project) and he was also sitting on the bed. I thought he was working on the project as well (we were on our laptops). At one point I felt the bed shaking a tiny bit and I looked over and could swear he was masturbating under the covers. I asked him if he was, he said no. Later, when he went to the restroom, I looked at his computer. He had looked at at least 140 sites, mostly escort sites, dating sites, Craigslist personal ads (women seeking men), and matrimonial sites (women seeking marriage). Not all the ads were sexual, in fact most of the dating/personal ads were for women looking for long-term-relationships. All of the escort sites and sexual ads were for African American women. I have no problem with this, except I am not African American, so if that is what arouses him, we have no hope. But my point is I am very open minded and don't mind that he looks at pornography, but it hurts me when he looks at escort sites, dating sites, personal ads, and matrimonials. He says it is just a hobby, just for fun, and as long as he has no intent of contacting these women, I should not be upset by it. But it does hurt me. These are not some fantasy women in a movie or magazine - these are real women looking for real men for sex, relationships, and marriage. These ads have contact information for the women in them. It DOES hurt me. Also, it's not just that - we have no sex life, no matter what I do or don't do. He swears he'll never cheat on me and that's all that matters. I say his looking at these ads is pretty close to going to a singles bar, "but just to look". If you're a married man, why look at these sites? And I've asked him, are these sites more important to you than your marriage, than your wife? So important that you have to view them even when you know it hurts her? He says no, but he gets visibly stressed and upset and cannot promise to stop. Again, if he wants to view pornography, no big deal. But these sites are a big deal to me. What do you think? Any advice?


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## MsLady (Dec 1, 2008)

> He says it is just a hobby, just for fun


That's the biggest crock ever. I've now read this a few times on posts where men say "they're just looking" or it's just a pass-time to be in dating sites. Not only do they suck for going to those places, but they suck as bad for insulting anyone's intelligence with that lame, BS-type of excuse for doing it. I mean, AT LEAST put a little more effort into your lie. Porn is one thing (and in moderation in a healthy relationship, I see no problem with porn), but dating sites? Not okay.

Anyway, I hate to be harsh, but, I think that your sex life is null because he's busy getting off on other women. He IS cheating on you, whether it's through "chat-sex" or having actually met some of these women - which is his ultimate goal if he hasn't done it yet, because there are ways to do "virtual sex" without going to places where eventual face-to-face contact is expected. 

Make sure to use protection when you DO have sex with him.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

The underlying (and biggest) problem here is your husband should have no loyalties (which include habits, hobbies, addictions, and the like) above his wife and his marriage. No such things should take his attention and affection away from you. Rent the movie Fireproof and the two of you watch it together. It's chincy and the acting is terrible, but the message is powerful and will help your marriage. It will help him to understand the disloyalty of his actions and why they hurt you. The meaning is undeniable but whether he heeds the message is up to him. Don't spring it on him. Tell him in advance it's a movie you think you both should watch so you'll have a better understanding of each other, your marriage, and the commitment that is required of each of you. So many men do the same as he does and they give the exact same flippant reasons and excuses. He needs to see it isn't nearly so simple and dismissive as he thinks. If this doesn't work, on the other hand, you will realize you married a teenage masturbater who never did grow up, and he never will.


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## Render (Apr 18, 2010)

Wife: This morning he says I am close minded because I don't want him looking at dating and marriage sites. I don't mind if he looks at porn, but I draw the line at dating and marriage sites. We just started going to a counselor. I know his habit of looking at these sites (he masturbates to them) is a major factor in our lack of sex life. told him if he refuses to stop looking at these sites, I will leave him, and I will. It has nothing to do with an open mind, and I can't imagine many wives out there who would welcome his behavior. He justifies his hurtful behavior by saying I am close minded by not wanting my HUSBAND on dating on marriage and dating sites.

Husband: I don't like talking much. The reason my wife is "close minded" is because she doesn't want me to go on dating and marriage sites, but I'm JUST LOOKING, NOTHING INTENTIONAL and SIMPLY CURIOUS and she should not be bothered. If she was open minded, this wouldn't bother her, and it wouldn't bother any open minded wife. Any 21st century woman will agree with this, but my wife is a baby boomer and baby boomers are close minded.


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

Render said:


> Wife: This morning he says I am close minded because I don't want him looking at dating and marriage sites. I don't mind if he looks at porn, but I draw the line at dating and marriage sites. We just started going to a counselor. I know his habit of looking at these sites (he masturbates to them) is a major factor in our lack of sex life. told him if he refuses to stop looking at these sites, I will leave him, and I will. It has nothing to do with an open mind, and I can't imagine many wives out there who would welcome his behavior. He justifies his hurtful behavior by saying I am close minded by not wanting my HUSBAND on dating on marriage and dating sites.
> 
> Husband: I don't like talking much. The reason my wife is "close minded" is because she doesn't want me to go on dating and marriage sites, but I'm JUST LOOKING, NOTHING INTENTIONAL and SIMPLY CURIOUS and she should not be bothered. If she was open minded, this wouldn't bother her, and it wouldn't bother any open minded wife. Any 21st century woman will agree with this, but my wife is a baby boomer and baby boomers are close minded.


I don’t think this is about being closed or open minded. Well maybe it is but more importantly it’s about a boundary which you’ve just set saying that you won’t have this type of behavior in your life. It’s up to your husband to respect that boundary (and your feelings) or not. Counseling is definitely the way to go. 

At the same time I can see how this might be saying something to him about your trust in him, or lack thereof. I think counseling will help sort that out. 

FWIW, I am a Gen X’er (borderline Gen Y) and there’s no way I would be okay with this either. Porn is one thing, actual dating websites are different and there’s no logical reason for a married man to dabble with them. To me it says there is something about the potential of a real life hook-up that turns him on and that would be concerning.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

Render said:


> Wife: This morning he says I am close minded because I don't want him looking at dating and marriage sites. I don't mind if he looks at porn, but I draw the line at dating and marriage sites. We just started going to a counselor. I know his habit of looking at these sites (he masturbates to them) is a major factor in our lack of sex life. told him if he refuses to stop looking at these sites, I will leave him, and I will. It has nothing to do with an open mind, and I can't imagine many wives out there who would welcome his behavior. He justifies his hurtful behavior by saying I am close minded by not wanting my HUSBAND on dating on marriage and dating sites.
> 
> Husband: I don't like talking much. The reason my wife is "close minded" is because she doesn't want me to go on dating and marriage sites, but I'm JUST LOOKING, NOTHING INTENTIONAL and SIMPLY CURIOUS and she should not be bothered. If she was open minded, this wouldn't bother her, and it wouldn't bother any open minded wife. Any 21st century woman will agree with this, but my wife is a baby boomer and baby boomers are close minded.




Do you want to do something about it? Or, do you just want to keep stating your case?

To you, he is being disrespectful and inconsiderate of you. To him, you are just complaining and closed-minded. Okay....we get it already. 

He will not change or understand the problem on his own, and you cannot make him. You were given some suggestions to help your situation, such as counseling and a simple thing as watching a movie. They both will help. Are you going to do anything or not? We don't need to keep hearing what the disagreement is about. And the disagreement nor the problem will not magically go away just because you keep complaining.


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

Susan2010 said:


> Do you want to do something about it? Or, do you just want to keep stating your case?
> 
> To you, he is being disrespectful and inconsiderate of you. To him, you are just complaining and closed-minded. Okay....we get it already.
> 
> He will not change or understand the problem on his own, and you cannot make him. You were given some suggestions to help your situation, such as counseling and a simple thing as watching a movie. They both will help. Are you going to do anything or not? We don't need to keep hearing what the disagreement is about. And the disagreement nor the problem will not magically go away just because you keep complaining.


Ouch, maybe I'm missing something or you’re just having a rough day or this is some kind of motivational tool but all she was doing was giving an update which includes a statement that they’ve just started counseling which was very much the advice given to her. 

No one here has to take every piece of advice they’re offered. Every individual will see things in a different light and possibly offer a different view. I’ve found this site to be much more helpful in being able to read the views of others, taking what I find to be useful and leaving the rest. If you don’t want to keep reading about it, unsubscribe from the thread or don't respond.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

WantsHappiness said:


> If you don’t want to keep reading about it, unsubscribe from the thread or don't respond.


You misconstrued my whole point. Besides that, you do not tell me what to do. If you didn't like what I said, you were supposed to take your own advice.


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## PeasNCarrots (Apr 5, 2010)

ALRIGHTY THENNNNNNNNNNNN Back to the subject at hand..... I guess the first thing to really come to my mind is, Just WHAT is he curious about on these dating/marriage websites? They are there for SINGLE people to hook up. If its sex talk.... heck he can come here! or I'm sure there are other sex/ fantasy/ fetish sites he could go to that are geared toward married people. If its wondering what women want in a man.... He can ask you first before worrying about other women. Have you asked him? The answer wont solve your problems but I'm a believer in working out problems one at a time versus everything at once, there are obviously multiple issues here and trying to work on all of them at once may be frustrating, so just pick at them a little bit at a time.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Part of being on a forum such is this one is that it's a place to vent and air out one's feelings and sort things out. Writing one's problems out by itself is therapeutic. I can understand that. The OP is in a tough situation. She is sitting in bed with a man who is surfing the web and looking at escort/dating sites and masturbating at the same time. Does it get much more disrespectful or demeaning? How long before he starts texting to women and inviting them over? I mean seriously...:crazy:

I can only imagine how I'd feel if my husband not only didn't want to be intimate with me more than once a month but was now "shopping around" even if it's "just for fun". You shop for cars, clothes and music on I-Tunes on your computer.. NOT WOMEN. It stinks, it's unacceptable and you have to pretty much say that if it happens again you are throwing him out of your bed and your life. There is more here than him just checking out Match.com. It's a reflection of his feelings about you and the marriage. 

This is called setting a boundary. Basically you have to draw a line and say "unacceptable" and be prepared to enforce it. Sounds like you are prepared to do just that and I salute you on this. Then your husband has to make a choice about whether to respect your wishes or cross that line and face the consequences. 

If something bothers my husband and he asks me not to do it then I try and accommodate him. It's not called "giving in" but it's called "respect" and "caring". If it's a request that I find unreasonable then we talk and try and work things out. Seems this guy wants it all his way. It's selfish, childish and disrespectful, not to mention downright mean. 

Render, you are being VERY reasonable and it's good that you are starting counseling. This is something that you need to bring up with your counselor ASAP and tell your husband that this just isn't acceptable. 

If my husband was jerking off even looking at porn on his laptop while sitting in bed with me it wouldn't be a "laptop" long, it would be stuck in the other end and quite painful for him, I can assure you of that. This is about respect and consideration, as well as shopping around. He's pretty much giving you the proverbial "FU" sign. Why he is doing this is something you need to explore and hopefully fix. How long has this been going on and why?


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## Render (Apr 18, 2010)

WantsHappiness said:


> Ouch, maybe I'm missing something or you’re just having a rough day or this is some kind of motivational tool but all she was doing was giving an update which includes a statement that they’ve just started counseling which was very much the advice given to her.
> 
> No one here has to take every piece of advice they’re offered. Every individual will see things in a different light and possibly offer a different view. I’ve found this site to be much more helpful in being able to read the views of others, taking what I find to be useful and leaving the rest. If you don’t want to keep reading about it, unsubscribe from the thread or don't respond.


We've started counseling, and I looked at the movie review on IMDB and plan to borrow it from the library or rent it this weekend. If he continues to do this crap, I will leave and not come back. Life is too short. Today I just needed to vent and some validation and advice. Thanks.

Thanks.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

I can understand needing to vent, and good for you for taking charge. Funny thing about your situation is that it's not uncommon. And, it's portrayed in the movie in a very similar scenario. Your husband will see himself clearly.


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## Render (Apr 18, 2010)

Planning to watch it tonight - hope it gives him a new perspective on what's happening between us. Thanks for telling me about it.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

Oh boy! Please come back with an update. I am so excited for you, as I can see this really being a turning point. Like I mentioned, your husband is going to see himself very clearly and the damage and hurt that he causes. I truly, truly hope he doesn't reject it and instead begins to feel the affect and impact that the principles of the movie intends. It will be hard for him at first, just like it's hard for the character in the movie. For your sake and that of your marriage, I hope he comes around.

Looking to hear from you soon.


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## Render (Apr 18, 2010)

I am filing for divorce tomorrow.

There's a huge difference between looking at dating or similar sites (different than porn, which is anonymous) occasionally or together, and for one party in a relationship to spend the majority of his free time on the computer, utilizing these sites for sexual fulfillment, and in turn neglecting his partner and her needs, as well as the relationship. And I don't even mind if he looks at porn. 

But he is preoccupied with dating, marriage, and escort sites. This is not curiosity, this is obsession. The other day, when he thought his laptop was broken, he was virtually in tears and visibly anxious. He reminded me of the drug and alcohol addicts I've worked with as a nurse, when they fear their choice of substance will be taken away from them. 

I have been patient and loving and encouraging and supportive. I've just had it at this point, because he is not sincerely interested in change, and only agrees to placate me when I threaten to get divorced or leave. Well, this time I'm just leaving, no threats. I already filled out the paperwork, I just have to file it. 

He has no sincere interest in saving this relationship, and I suspect he will leave anyway as soon as he is able. 

Now I wonder if I was just one of the fantasies he developed being online - and when he discovered that real life and marriage isn't all fun and games, he's planning to foolishly jump into the next fantasy, with some bizarre impression that it will be better than this one. 

I just know I deserve a loving partner who respects my feelings and needs - and he does neither.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

Ah man, that means he rejected the principles - assuming, of course, you guys did watch the movie. If so, I can guess he raged against it and told you the movie and you were wrong. Right? Geez I hate people like that. Everybody's wrong but him. I'm guessing you are so disgusted you don't even want to talk about it and tell us what happened. I don't blame you. I would be too disgusted also. Seems I was right that you married a teenage masturbator who never grew up......and never will. Well, you can say you tried to get through to him and did all you could. I applaud your level of intolerance and sticking to your guns. You deserve better than this humiliation. You deserve to happy and loved. You deserve to be married to a man and not a child.


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## PeasNCarrots (Apr 5, 2010)

Wow! So sorry to hear this. Are you ok?


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Render, I'm sorry it didn't work out for you but it's better to do this now then go through years of misery. Better to be single and happy then with someone who pulls you down into their personal cesspool. I'm sure you'll eventually find someone who can appreciate what you have to offer. Trust me, there are nice guys out there! 

In the meantime your soon to be-Ex can do all the cyber-shopping he wants and may he find as big a wack-job as himself online and discover what true misery is all about.


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## HowToMoveOn? (Apr 25, 2010)

I want to offer you a some form of advise, but I too am in a similar situation and don't know how to fix it. If your husband is not willing to see how much this hurts you, then there's obviously no respect from his end. My problem is that I've been unable to get though toy H and went to family for help. Some help there, a slap on the wrist and I need to move on! If you feel divorce is right for you then be true to yourself and move on with your life. Don't waste time on tears on a lost cause. Just know your not wrong and you didn't do anything to deserve what he has chosen to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Render (Apr 18, 2010)

Oh God I think I'm going crazy! 

I'm doing laundry, he's running off for "walks" with his cell phone. Today I asked him to hang up his shirts (as he was just on his laptop all day), he hung one up and then just wandered away, leaving the rest in a pile. I did say "I can't believe you're this lazy. I just did all the laundry and I ask you to hang up a few shirts and you just leave them here." 

He comes back whining that he doesn't have anything to eat when dinner is sitting on the table. 

He gets a phone call and wants to take down a fax number, so while I am working on my laptop (doing divorce paperwork) he just yanks it out from my hands to use it to type the fax number. I am so fed up by then I explode. He calls me names in another language and I scream that he doesn't have the guts to tell me in English. Then he calls me a piece of **** and a ****ing moron. He says, "You're so stupid! I TOLD you to take the number down!" I told him I was not his secretary and that he should have gotten on his laptop or written it down with a pen, and to never yank my laptop out of my hands again. 

I told him he could have asked me politely, "Hey, can I please ... can you please?" 

I am so angry I could scream. He treats me like garbage and then blames me or treats me worse when I complain. I feel like I am going to have a stroke. I can't wait to get out of this relationship. The most maddening thing to me right now is that he feels he is treating me well and that I'm just "psycho". We are beyond help. 

I am so angry I've never felt this angry, and he looks at me like I'm a ****roach or something.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

You've made your decision to leave so why not just pack up and go? Why put up with this? :scratchhead:

Time to take that first step. After that it'll get easier.


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## Render (Apr 18, 2010)

I just left. It feel horrible, I feel guilty. I know its the right decision but it still feels really awful. I guess no matter how bad things were with him, I still had hope that something would get better, that we could change things together. I feel lonely and scared and uncertain. Leaving is letting go of that hope, and that hope was all I had.


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## jynxster (Apr 22, 2010)

Render, I am so sorry. I read this thread and your post in the other forum and you seem very lovely and loving. Your H is abusing you and does not deserve you. You have done the right thing, no matter how much it hurts. I wish you well. It's time to focus on yourself now.


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

Render said:


> I just left. It feel horrible, I feel guilty. I know its the right decision but it still feels really awful. I guess no matter how bad things were with him, I still had hope that something would get better, that we could change things together. I feel lonely and scared and uncertain. Leaving is letting go of that hope, and that hope was all I had.


I’m so very sorry to hear about this. It is the right decision right now and please know that you deserve much better! You had made an appointment for counseling for the two of you, right? You might want to keep that appointment and go by yourself. Counseling could do a lot in the ways of helping you get through this.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

I know it's tough and you don't think you can feel any worse but trust me, if he was beating the crap out of you then it would be an easy decision. Why is emotional/mental abuse any different? He's definitely been abusive to you and you have obviously made a huge effort to improve things but to no avail. Don't blame yourself because if only one person cares about fixing the relationship then it's the same as beating your head against the wall..All you get is a sore head.  

It's easy for me to say "put the past behind you and forge ahead". You are hurting badly and it's hard to just walk away from a marriage but it WILL get better. One day you'll look back and realize that you made the right decision and hopefully you'll find someone else who will treat you right. 

Listen to the song "Life starts now" by Three Days Grace. It pretty much sums up your situation and hopefully it'll make you feel better.  Whatever you do, don't go back to him. Try and find things that you can do to meet other people (not necessarily someone to get into a relationship but friends) and keep yourself active. Now is the time to do all the fun stuff you've always wanted to do but never could.


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

Its hard, but dont go back... it will only be worse for you if you do. I read the ambivilance in your last post and dont go back. You made the right choice


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