# Sex with a husband I hates



## mishelle (Dec 18, 2012)

I hate having sex with with husband. 

When he touches me it makes me want to cringe. I hate kissing him, his scent makes me want to vomit. We have a very unhealthy relationship, full of arguing and dysfunctional communication, name calling etc. So it is really hard for me to just put this aside and all of a sudden decide that I am attracted to him and want to be intimate with him. Its literally impossible to the extent that Ive had to get up in the middle of sex and leave the room.

Yes we've been to counseling for years, nothing seems to be helping. In his opinion, everything is my fault. He doesn't take ownership of the role that he plays in this. I literally get called names every day. He tells me he wishes I would die (i'm 5 months pregnant by the way), says I'm sick and twisted, stupid, a mistake, talks about my family... and it goes on and on until I can muster up the spirit to have sex with him again for the sake of peace. Sex is like a pacifier. I do it to shut him up. Then all of a sudden he flips into this wonderful man until a few days pass and he gets pissed again that we haven't had sex in a while and the cycle continues. Hey, I'm no saint either. I try to not act out in anger, but sometimes it gets the best of me too and we just go back and forth and back and forth in these ugly tornado arguments.

I understand that he needs sex, and I understand that being rejected sexually can be infuriating. But I honestly feel like I cannot keep up with the demand. And I read about so many women who just have sex just to have it.. I wish I could do that. I cannot have sex with someone that I hate. My body, or maybe its my mind, can't tolerate affection coming from someone who treats me to horribly. And then to be blamed for everything on top of it makes it a thousand times worse. How do I fix a marriage with someone who doesn't think they are doing anything wrong? I literally cannot put up with this any longer. It is so incredibly painful that I feel like I am withering away each day. 

I know that this is not sustainable. If I don't figure out how to have sex with him more often (right now its like about once a week or so).. then I'm pretty sure this marriage will not last. But right now I cant even be in the same room as him or even have a conversation with him without it blowing up. I have no idea what to do. I'm trying to hold onto this marriage for several reasons, but most importantly, I have a 21 month old and a baby on the way. I just want to have a normal marriage and family so badly for their sake. Not sure that it will ever be..


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## mishelle (Dec 18, 2012)

Sorry for the typo in the headline


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Why oh why are you having another baby with him?

This is possibly one of the most toxic threads I have read here. You need to get some self esteem asap. TBH I would end it all now. Why do you put up with being abused and stepped all over?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> When he touches me it makes me want to cringe. I hate kissing him, his scent makes me want to vomit. We have a very unhealthy relationship


No kidding

You need to hold off from the sex and a baby because the truth is this is just too unhealthy to live with. This is worse than a roommate situation, you despise him. If it's not working out, leave, don't bring a child into this mess.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

WOW

I agree time to move on. you actually cringe and hate your husbands touch.

Did you ever enjoy having sex with him?
did you ever explain what your needs were sexualy?
what the h*ll dose the MC say about your harsh feeling about your husband?

do you have a sex drive at all? maybe post pardum depression.

If you were being honest about how you truly feel about your husband and not just venting then I think divorce would be good all the way around for your whole family raising children in an inviroment like that is just going to cause them the same type of problems in their marriage. 


break the cycle your not happy and hes not happy which most likley will make the kids not happy its a lose lose for all.


good luck


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

If you're staying in such a marriage just for the sake of the kid, then you might actually make things worse for the kid, as the kid will grow up in such a hating environment. Not to mention that if the kid grows up and realizes that he/she is responsible for mom to put up with dad for all the years, it would affect him negatively and it's not fair.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

IMO if things are as bad as you say and you truly want out, you will find a way to get out of of this mess. Also, if you stay because of the kids sake, you're not doing them any favors, if anything it will just make things worse. If you feel you deserve better then you probably do.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Give your children up for adoption and divorce your husband. There is a long waiting list of loving, stable couples dying to give your children the perfect environment that you and your husband can't.

Good luck.


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## mishelle (Dec 18, 2012)

We did not plan the pregnancy. We would not intentionally get pregnant with all of this going on.

I am not giving up my children for adoption. I think that's pretty self explanatory.

Yes I do have a sex drive. I just find it difficult to be intimate with so many marital problems that seem so difficult to resolve. The MC says we have power struggle issues. She thinks that I find my power by refusing sex from him and he finds power by trying to demand it. It sounds crazy but for some reason the cycle is so hard to break. If one of us concedes, things get better. But we are like 2 bulls that lock heads over lots of things. I am 10 years younger than him and stay at home. I have had trouble finding my own autonomy in this marriage. I really feel like a subordinate. I don't have my own money to just do things for myself with. I am an artist, but even with that, he has such a heavy hand in setting prices for the pieces that I sell... I just feel suffocated. So I guess I have a small tolerance for feeling demanded of and controlled. And he craves respect. He did not grow up with his father so I think he just doesn't know how to be someone who commands, not demands respect. He goes about it in the wrong ways and it leaves me feeling like his kid or employee most of the time. So these two issues intertwine so intricately it seems, that its hard to break it apart to change behaviors.

I am not staying married "for the kids". It is not that simple guys. I am a person of faith and I got married truly believing that God would help us throughout the course of our marriage to heal areas that would need healing. It's my faith that gives me hope that things will get better for us and our children. I am not saying that I think this situation is better for my children than us being apart. I just want to make sure that I have exhausted all of whatever I can give before I walk away. I am holding out on hope.

And I wrote the thread bc I am frustrated. But I also want to know what I can do to make this better bc I know that I contribute to the problem.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

...


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

I agree with WorkingOnMe.

I'm a Christian also, but merely staying married isn't fulfilling what the Bible says for wives to do. Although there's not a lot of detail in the Bible about what marriage should be, I do believe there's enough to _help_ improve the atmosphere. 

Before anything can improve, though, boundaries need to be set and enforced. Verbal abuse should not be tolerated. You can disagree in a healthy way that doesn't involve hatred or resentment. 

Is your husband also a Christian? Does he know that husbands are commanded to love their wife as Christ loves the church? Is he aware that saying he wishes you're dead is definitely _*not*_ treating you in a loving way?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Sorry, I decided not to call her out so I deleted my post. But our resident writer summed it up nicely.


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## dormant (Apr 3, 2012)

The part of your story that bothers me most is this: "It is not that simple guys. I am a person of faith and I got married truly believing that God would help us throughout the course of our marriage to heal areas that would need healing."

I see this so many times. When will people understand, they are responsible for making thier life what they want? Even if ther were a God, they are still the ones that interrupt the signs. The course of action to take is up to YOU!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dormant said:


> The part of your story that bothers me most is this: "It is not that simple guys. I am a person of faith and I got married truly believing that God would help us throughout the course of our marriage to heal areas that would need healing."
> 
> I see this so many times. When will people understand, they are responsible for making thier life what they want? Even if ther were a God, they are still the ones that interrupt the signs. The course of action to take is up to YOU!


This is a great point. Just believing in God isn't going to automatically effect a marriage.


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## A++ (May 21, 2012)

mishelle said:


> I hate having sex with with husband.


But, you love his money... JK 

Being stuck in an unhealthy relationship isn't good for either one of you and your children.

So, if you can't have sex with him then its better to move on and let him be with someone who will have sex with him.


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

Get out of this marriage. It is toxic. Religion doesn't endorse staying in verbally abusive marriages. You hate the guy. You don't even like him. He repulses you. You're disgusted by the site of him. You are young. This is not how life is meant to be. You will increasingly become more miserable, angry, resentful, and hateful. This is no way to raise a family. I know how harmful a sick marriage is to kids, especially when kids grow up watching their father treat their mother like sh*t. I'm telling you - there is nothing that makes a child feel worse than helplessly watching their mother be treated this way. Forget your obligation to your religion. You have a greater obligation to your children. Get out NOW!


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## coupdegrace (Oct 15, 2012)

Why did you marry him in the first place? Was it an unplanned pregnancy? From your description, it sounds that he wasn't all that great of a guy to begin with. 

I will never understand why people that are in dysfunctional relationships think they will evolve into healthy marriages.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

IslandGirl3 said:


> Forget your obligation to your religion.


One can argue whether one's religion permits divorce, and under what circumstances. But I bristle at the notion that religious obligations should just be ignored. That isn't much different than arguing that everyone should be an atheist.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

wow this is terrible!


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

If you are a woman of faith then talk to your clergy for advice. At this point the needs of the children need to have first consideration.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> Give your children up for adoption and divorce your husband. There is a long waiting list of loving, stable couples dying to give your children the perfect environment that you and your husband can't.
> 
> Good luck.


Who said anything about adoption??? She just needs to get a divorce. Nothing wrong with being a single fit parent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Michael A. Brown (Oct 16, 2012)

Try to talk with him about this matter.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

IslandGirl3 said:


> Get out of this marriage. It is toxic. Religion doesn't endorse staying in verbally abusive marriages. You hate the guy. You don't even like him. He repulses you. You're disgusted by the site of him. You are young. This is not how life is meant to be. You will increasingly become more miserable, angry, resentful, and hateful. This is no way to raise a family. I know how harmful a sick marriage is to kids, especially when kids grow up watching their father treat their mother like sh*t. I'm telling you - there is nothing that makes a child feel worse than helplessly watching their mother be treated this way. Forget your obligation to your religion. You have a greater obligation to your children. Get out NOW!


You preach it girl, sistahood 4evah!
It's definitely all the man's fault, and she is nothing but a pure as the driven snow victim. 

How about this instead, how about they go to marriage counselling to learn how to communicate with each other, and refocus their perception of these marital issue so that they are on the same wavelength, for THEIR CHILDREN'S SAKE.

It seems to me they are at such violent loggerheads simply because they aren't communicating their needs and feelings adequately, so alot of "reading into" of minor actions is going on, which just feeds into this continual cycle of resentment of hate, as each is perceiving the other as neglecting them, not meeting their (uncommunicated adequately) needs, etc.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

lisab0105 said:


> Who said anything about adoption??? She just needs to get a divorce. Nothing wrong with being a single fit parent.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The OP said one of the reasons she's staying with husband is to provide her children the best possible environment. It's inarguable that the best possible environment in which to raise children is a stable, loving, two-parent household. And it sounds like that is not possible with the OP and her husband.

Raising children in a stable, single-parent household may well be better than raising them in an unstable, two-parent household. But neither scenario is as good as raising them in a stable, two-parent household.


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> The OP said one of the reasons she's staying with husband is to provide her children the best possible environment. It's inarguable that the best possible environment in which to raise children is a stable, loving, two-parent household. And it sounds like that is not possible with the OP and her husband.
> 
> Raising children in a stable, single-parent household may well be better than raising them in an unstable, two-parent household. But neither scenario is as good as raising them in a stable, two-parent household.


But what about being raised by their own single but biological parent, rather than two unrelated parents? Also, a child might grow up wondering why his/her parents gave him/her up for adoption, wondering if they both saw him/her as baggage of what's left in the marriage rather than them having given up on him/her since 2 people taking care of him/her is better than 1 (provided we are comparing the situation between the single parent and the unrelated parents providing good living conditions on both sides).


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

Do you really want to raise 2 children in that kind o environment? Is it fair to them? Is it fair to you and your husband?
IMO, when spouses lose respect or one another, any love that was let, will soon follow. If you both can't commit to making significant changes, your marriage is doomed. As of right now, I am not sure if there is anything left to be saved.


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

ps- Almost every religion allows divorce under certain circumstances. Christianity, included.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

lilith23 said:


> But what about being raised by their own single but biological parent, rather than two unrelated parents?


Adoptive parents invest more time and money in children than biological parents do. Even in a two-parent household. So I would say that two adoptive parents are certainly better than a single biological parent.



lilith23 said:


> Also, a child might grow up wondering why his/her parents gave him/her up for adoption, wondering if they both saw him/her as baggage of what's left in the marriage rather than them having given up on him/her since 2 people taking care of him/her is better than 1 (provided we are comparing the situation between the single parent and the unrelated parents providing good living conditions on both sides).


Recent studies have shown no harmful effects of adoption on children's self esteem. And the benefits of being raised in a two-parent household (lower rates of dropouts, incarceration, drug use, gang activity, etc.) would almost certainly outweigh any negative self esteem issues that might pop up due to adoption.


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

A++ said:


> But, you love his money... JK
> 
> Being stuck in an unhealthy relationship isn't good for either one of you and your children.
> 
> So, if you can't have sex with him then its better to move on and let him be with someone who will have sex with him.


This isn't about just sex. He's controlling and abusive.


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> Adoptive parents invest more time and money in children than biological parents do. Even in a two-parent household. So I would say that two adoptive parents are certainly better than a single biological parent.


With what did you assume that? I don't see why unrelated parents would necessarily give more time and money than biological parents.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

You are overwhelmed with resentment over the way you are being treated. If you two can't work through that there does not appear to be much hope. Is there anyway he will discuss the fact that the way he treats you impacts everything in your relationship? Will he talk to you at all? I know exactly how you feel. Years of being verbally and emotionally abused sure kills a libido.


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

PHTlump said:


> Adoptive parents invest more time and money in children than biological parents do. Even in a two-parent household. So I would say that two adoptive parents are certainly better than a single biological parent.
> 
> 
> Recent studies have shown no harmful effects of adoption on children's self esteem. And the benefits of being raised in a two-parent household (lower rates of dropouts, incarceration, drug use, gang activity, etc.) would almost certainly outweigh any negative self esteem issues that might pop up due to adoption.


That's a ridiculously arrogant, obnoxious, and frankly irresponsible statement. You cannot say that two adoptive parents are always better than one biological parent. My successful, beautifully brought up children would beg to differ. 

I'm sorry, but I don't think people on the Internet who get a few lines of text regarding such delicate situations should be dispensing such earth shattering advice regarding people's children. You don't KNoW what kind of parent she is and you have no way of knowing if they would end up better off. Not only that but think of the psychological trauma that would be visited upon these children to be ripped away from at least one loving parent to go live with strangers. There are certainly cases where this may be the only option but that is after a long and careful deliberation by professionals. Wow. It's irresponsible to say things like that in such a cavalier manner. 

the same goes for when people advise posters to try to take custody from the other parent without knowing all the details. Please refrain from that, people! You don't know enough details to be giving such advice to people who are hurt, confused or crazy enough to just do it.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I think that people close to the situation have to evaluate it based on the big picture. Ie the ability of the single parent, grandparents, ages, etc... It's really impossible to generalize it to cover all single parents or all adoptive parents.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

lilith23 said:


> With what did you assume that? I don't see why unrelated parents would necessarily give more time and money than biological parents.


http://www.iaccenter.com/adoptive_investment.pdf
The study is certainly counter-intuitive. It seems like people would invest more in passing on their own genes. But, there you have it.


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> Adoptive parents invest more time and money in children than biological parents do. Even in a two-parent household. So I would say that two adoptive parents are certainly better than a single biological parent.
> 
> 
> Recent studies have shown no harmful effects of adoption on children's self esteem. And the benefits of being raised in a two-parent household (lower rates of dropouts, incarceration, drug use, gang activity, etc.) would almost certainly outweigh any negative self esteem issues that might pop up due to adoption.



I would not put my children for adoption because I was getting divorced. Sound illogical, irrational and selfish. 

I know single parents that are excellent loving parents and have the means to take care of them properly. I will grant you that this is not the optimal solution but, it sounds a lot better than giving up on your children.

Regarding your study, it kind of reminds me of the radiation studies made in the 40's and 50's and how doctors used to treat newborns with radiation... Point being, studies sometimes are wrong!


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think that people close to the situation have to evaluate it based on the big picture. Ie the ability of the single parent, grandparents, ages, etc... It's really impossible to generalize it to cover all single parents or all adoptive parents.


I agree.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

TeaLeaves4 said:


> That's a ridiculously arrogant, and frankly obnoxious blanket statement.


Ah, the unjustified, indignant outrage of a woman. No TAM thread would be complete without it. 



TeaLeaves4 said:


> You cannot say that two adoptive parents are always better than one biological parent. My successful, beautifully brought up children would beg to differ.


I didn't say that two adoptive parents are always better than one biological parent. I was speaking in general terms. Two adoptive parents are generally better than one biological parent. There is a ton of scientific evidence to support that position.

Of course, there is also a ton of scientific evidence to support the position that smoking causes lung cancer. But I'm sure somebody would immediately post that she knows somebody who smoked and never got lung cancer, so we can't say that smoking ALWAYS causes lung cancer. 



TeaLeaves4 said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't think people on the Internet who get a few lines of text regarding such delicate situations should be dispensing such earth shattering advice regarding people's children. You don't KNoW what kind of parent she is and you have no way of knowing if they would end up better off. Not only that but think of the psychological trauma that would be visited upon these children. ShEs being abused, and its up to her to get her children away from that. Not give them away. Wow.


The OP stated that she was in an abusive household with a young child and one on the way. And I'm the jerk for suggesting that that's not the optimal way to raise children? Seriously?

Now, yes, the OP could divorce her husband and raise her children in separate households with her abusive ex-husband. And that still wouldn't be the optimal way to raise children.

Generally speaking, children do best in stable, two-parent households. The OP doesn't have that and doesn't appear able to generate that environment any time soon.

So, if we're talking about what's best for the children, then a stable, two-parent household is the answer. If we're talking about what will make the mother feel better, then keeping her children may well be the answer.

But, this is all moot. The OP has stated that adoption is not an option. That's her decision. I just made a suggestion in the best interest of the children.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Memento said:


> I would not put my children for adoption because I was getting divorced. Sound illogical, irrational and selfish.


You think that giving your children away to another family to be raised in a better environment than you can provide is selfish? To quote Inigo Montoya, "I don't think that word means what you think it means."



Memento said:


> Regarding your study, it kind of reminds me of the radiation studies made in the 40's and 50's and how doctors used to treat newborns with radiation... Point being, studies sometimes are wrong!


It's amazing the mistrust and skepticism on adoption. The facts are the facts, folks. Adoptive parents typically spend thousands of dollars and years of their lives to have a chance at raising a child. They are invested. They didn't make that investment so that they could neglect the children.

And for anyone who thinks the studies suggesting that adoptive parents invest more, or more appropriately, that two-parent households are better than single-parent households, feel free to conduct your own study showing the opposite. Or, critique the study based on its methods. Just stating, "I don't believe it," is not a serious position.


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> You think that giving your children away to another family to be raised in a better environment than you can provide is selfish? To quote Inigo Montoya, "I don't think that word means what you think it means."
> 
> *Better environment? How to you explain abuse stories regarding adoptive parents? Just because they live with 2 people, doesn't necessarily translates in a good home.*
> 
> ...


*It is not a case of not believing it, its a case of not taking it serious. I bet I could find studies saying the opposite.*


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

PHTlump said:


> Ah, the unjustified, indignant outrage of a woman. No TAM thread would be complete without it.
> 
> 
> I didn't say that two adoptive parents are always better than one biological parent. I was speaking in general terms. Two adoptive parents are generally better than one biological parent. There is a ton of scientific evidence to support that position.
> ...


Oh, hee hee, you think that _yourindignant misogynistic comment put me in my place? No, what I'm trying to say is that making irresponsible "suggestions" regarding such complicated matters as child's well being, could have devastating consequences. Imagine how this poster felt if she read that. I mean not only does her husband treat her like crap, but now she's got some guy telling her her kids are better off in someone else's home. 

I realize that people like to use this forum as a place to showcase their little pearls of wisdom, advance their ideas about whatever subject, but there are some comments that do not belong on someone else's thread. If you want to talk about the virtues of an adoptive home, maybe start your own thread about it. You didn't merely suggest, you insinuated her kids would definitely be better off. 

I'm sorry, I DO get indignant when I see things like this on this forum. I'm simply saying be careful what you advise people when you don't have the whole picture, and when the fallout from such advice could be potentially devastating. I see that you're still making blanket statements. How do you know that a particular potential adoptive family is, and always will be, stable? Or will be more loving? How do you vet potential families and ensure that they will love someone's child better than the biological parent who gets out of the abusive situation? Umm, you can't._


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

TeaLeaves4 said:


> Oh, hee hee, you think that _yourindignant misogynistic comment put me in my place? No, what I'm trying to say is that making irresponsible "suggestions" regarding such complicated matters as child's well being, could have devastating consequences. Imagine how this poster felt if she read that. I mean not only does her husband treat her like crap, but now she's got some guy telling her her kids are better off in someone else's home.
> 
> I realize that people like to use this forum as a place to showcase their little pearls of wisdom, advance their ideas about whatever subject, but there are some comments that do not belong on someone else's thread. If you want to talk about the virtues of an adoptive home, maybe start your own thread about it. You didn't merely suggest, you insinuated her kids would definitely be better off.
> 
> I'm sorry, I DO get indignant when I see things like this on this forum. I'm simply saying be careful what you advise people when you don't have the whole picture, and when the fallout from such advice could be potentially devastating. I see that you're still making blanket statements. How do you know that a particular potential adoptive family is, and always will be, stable? Or will be more loving? How do you vet potential families and ensure that they will love someone's child better than the biological parent who gets out of the abusive situation? Umm, you can't._


_

Oh, and screw studies. I've been to grad school. I think we all know not to hang your hat on them. Anyone with an a social agenda and a grant can construct a "scientific" study that supports their point of view.

Yes, adoption can be wonderful. You're right. But only under the right circumstances. Suggesting she's not a fit parent based on what we know so far is obnoxious._


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> http://www.iaccenter.com/adoptive_investment.pdf
> The study is certainly counter-intuitive. It seems like people would invest more in passing on their own genes. But, there you have it.


Let's see... First, anyone who can adopt needs to have good conditions to be proper candidates, and then they also most likely are older than normal parents coz a lot of couples who adopt do that mostly coz they have spent a few years trying and can't have their own, and then spent some more time pondering about the decision of adoption, and then a few more time for their conditions to be analyzed and then finally approved.

This, compared to the biological parents, that can have children any time and with any conditions.

So of course that you will find a much higher percentage of good adoptive parents compared to the percentage of good biological parents... You have to have conditions for your wish to adopt to be approved, unlike biological parents that can have kids whether or not they are prepared.

But does this mean that adoptive parents necessarily better? I don't think so. And there is a difference in saying "Adoptive parents invest more time and money in children than biological parents do" and "Adoptive parents *often *invest more time and money in children than biological parents do". The first one implies an absolute truth, the second one is more adequate if you want to defend that study's conclusions (which IMO is flawed, for the reasons mentioned).


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## roostr (Oct 20, 2012)

Based on what you said, I dont see how this marraige can work? If you truly hate him, why would you want to bother? It really is that simple


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Memento said:


> Better environment? How to you explain abuse stories regarding adoptive parents? Just because they live with 2 people, doesn't necessarily translates in a good home.


Again, I'm talking about generalities. Every rule has exceptions.

If I state that men are taller than women, most people understand that I'm not saying that every man in the world is taller than every woman in the world. Most people understand that I'm saying that most men are taller than most women. And pointing out an exceptionally tall woman, or an exceptionally short man, does not invalidate the general rule that men are taller than women.



Memento said:


> I spend thousand of dollars with my children. Both of them! Im a good parent! But I am not any better because I adopted child.


Neither the study, nor I, argued causation. It seems obvious that the effect is via correlation. Responsible people who value children are the ones who adopt. Irresponsible people don't tend to adopt. When was the last time you heard about an unwanted, teen adoption?

And I'm sure you believe that you improved the life of your adopted child by removing him from his biological parent(s) and placing him into your home.



Memento said:


> It is not a case of not believing it, its a case of not taking it serious. I bet I could find studies saying the opposite.


If you believe it, how can you not take it seriously?

Much of the advantage of adoptive parents over biological parents appears to be the fact that older, wealthier people tend to adopt. But, even after controlling for this, a small advantage for adoptive parents remained. It may be possible for you to find a study showing no advantage.

However, you will not be able to find a study showing that single parent households are better than two-parent households for raising children.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

TeaLeaves4 said:


> No, what I'm trying to say is that making irresponsible "suggestions" regarding such complicated matters as child's well being, could have devastating consequences. Imagine how this poster felt if she read that. I mean not only does her husband treat her like crap, but now she's got some guy telling her her kids are better off in someone else's home.


She's raising her children in an abusive household. You think she should feel good about that?



TeaLeaves4 said:


> If you want to talk about the virtues of an adoptive home, maybe start your own thread about it.


I was simply answering questions and responding to points that others posted on this thread. If you wanted to pitch a hissy fit, perhaps you should have started a new thread. I would have responded there.



TeaLeaves4 said:


> You didn't merely suggest, you insinuated her kids would definitely be better off.


The suggestion, or insinuation, that children are better off being raised in a stable adoptive household than an abusive biological household doesn't seem that controversial to me.



TeaLeaves4 said:


> I see that you're still making blanket statements. How do you know that a particular potential adoptive family is, and always will be, stable? Or will be more loving? How do you vet potential families and ensure that they will love someone's child better than the biological parent who gets out of the abusive situation? Umm, you can't.


So, you're saying that children are better off staying in an abusive household with their biological parents than being adopted? Because there is a small chance that the adoptive parents will also be jerks? Seriously?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

lilith23 said:


> So of course that you will find a much higher percentage of good adoptive parents compared to the percentage of good biological parents... You have to have conditions for your wish to adopt to be approved, unlike biological parents that can have kids whether or not they are prepared.


You are correct. Most of the advantage that adoptive households held over biological households were because adoptive parents were older and wealthier. However, the advantage remained even after controlling for those factors.



lilith23 said:


> And there is a difference in saying "Adoptive parents invest more time and money in children than biological parents do" and "Adoptive parents *often *invest more time and money in children than biological parents do". The first one implies an absolute truth, the second one is more adequate if you want to defend that study's conclusions (which IMO is flawed, for the reasons mentioned).


There's really not a difference. In discussing social phenomena, generalities are, or should be, understood. For example, the statements, "Adoptive parents invest more time and money in children than biological parents do" and "Adoptive parents invest more time and money in children than biological parents do in every case and without exception" are obviously different. No one should read, "Men are taller than women," and interpret it to mean that there are no exceptions to that rule.


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> If you believe it, how can you not take it seriously?
> 
> Much of the advantage of adoptive parents over biological parents appears to be the fact that older, wealthier people tend to adopt. But, even after controlling for this, a small advantage for adoptive parents remained. It may be possible for you to find a study showing no advantage.
> 
> However, you will not be able to find a study showing that single parent households are better than two-parent households for raising children.


There is some validity in what you say, but not in how you put it. 

I adopted my son because his bio mother was a crack ***** addict that wanted nothing to do with the child. Not because she was single. BTW, I am 12 years younger than the bio mother.


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

PHTlump said:


> She's raising her children in an abusive household. You think she should feel good about that?
> 
> 
> I was simply answering questions and responding to points that others posted on this thread. If you wanted to pitch a hissy fit, perhaps you should have started a new thread. I would have responded there.
> ...


Read again for comprehension. I said a biological parent who gets out of an abusive situation. And I never said they are better off staying in an abusive situation. 

Foster care or a relative can help out in the meantime. 

I didn't pitch a hissy fit sweetie. I'm stating my views. I'm passionate about certain things. This and your other little comment about an "indignant woman" only serve to illuminate your attitude towards women. Which is, I'm sure, if you can't win against them, belittle them. Grow up.


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

PHTlump said:


> Again, I'm talking about generalities. Every rule has exceptions.
> 
> If I state that men are taller than women, most people understand that I'm not saying that every man in the world is taller than every woman in the world. Most people understand that I'm saying that most men are taller than most women. And pointing out an exceptionally tall woman, or an exceptionally short man, does not invalidate the general rule that men are taller than women.
> 
> ...


That depends on the quality of the individuals involved, now, doesn't it.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

mishelle said:


> I hate having sex with with husband.
> 
> When he touches me it makes me want to cringe. I hate kissing him, his scent makes me want to vomit. We have a very unhealthy relationship, full of arguing and dysfunctional communication, name calling etc. So it is really hard for me to just put this aside and all of a sudden decide that I am attracted to him and want to be intimate with him. Its literally impossible to the extent that Ive had to get up in the middle of sex and leave the room.
> 
> ...


The only way you're going to have the marriage you want, is if the two of you actually make real progress in therapy.
If the current therapist isn't helping you two learn to function together, then find another one.
You don't want to give up on your marriage, then keep searching for a therapist who will help you both.
Things will not get better on their own, you two do need an outside influence to work through your issues.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

TeaLeaves4 said:


> That depends on the quality of the individuals involved, now, doesn't it.


So you read the entire post about generalities and how stupid it is to argue that a specific example should negate a general rule, and then you try to argue that a specific example should negate a general rule? Awesome.


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

I think the original thread was not about the pros and cons of adoption. Lets stick with what was asked. Myself included.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Why stay married? This is ridiculous.


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## dan_1982JB (Dec 20, 2012)

you should think in what really makes you happy.
Sometimes relationships doesnt work ,but go on with it is lie oneself.It is dificult,but in my view you should divorce ;it seems all is broken.
we only have a life,be happy


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