# It's Been 10 years since I cheated. How long does this take?



## wonderwoman83 (Nov 19, 2013)

10 years ago, my husband discovered that I was having an emotional affair - he was a friend - we spent time together, texted, never had sex. But I kept the relationship a secret. 

To this day, when I have to stay late at work, he doesn't trust that I am telling the truth. When a co-worker had to drive me home, my husband almost came and got me (30 minutes out of his way) because of the thoughts that are going through his head. I have the opportunity to attend an awesome training opportunity that is 5 days long and would be totally paid for by my work. But he has made it clear that there is no way I could go.. and that it is all my fault... he wouldn't feel this way if it wasn't for my actions. 

How long until I can live a normal life? When he discovered the affair, he made me wear a letter A to the supermarket. He wouldn't let me go to work for two days. I did everything he wanted. 

Any more than a minor issue that comes up today, and he is reminded that he can't trust me. He says he wants to but he can't. 

If this is how I have to live the rest of my life, I don't think I can ... isn't 10 years of distrust enough? What can I do to be able to live a life that isn't always answering to his distrust?


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm sorry to say that the trust never comes back in many cases. Your husband is doing the same thing I would do (have done), so I can't find fault with him. If you can't live with this any more, then let him know if he doesn't change, you will be leaving him and see what happens. If he is anything like me, he will hold the door for open for you so you can have an easy exit. Sorry to say this but you are reaping what you have sowed. So ..... if you are truly remorseful .... Suck it up and live with it.


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## tainted (Aug 16, 2013)

What have you done so far to regain his trust?
Please don't list things he told you to do, i want to hear what initiatives you took. 

Is he emotional abusive when issues come up?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> I'm sorry to say that the trust never comes back in many cases. Your husband is doing the same thing I would do (have done), so I can't find fault with him. If you can't live with this any more, then let him know if he doesn't change, you will be leaving him and see what happens. If he us anything like me, he will hold the door for open for you so you can have an easy exit. Sorry to say this but you are reaping what you have sowed. So ..... if you are truly remorseful .... Suck it up and live with it.


:iagree:

If he is doing this after 10 years he obviously suspects it was something more imo.

This is no way to live for the both of you.

Just curious, why does he still want to be married?
:scratchhead:


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I think we need more information. Sorry, I know it is 10 years and is supposed to be in the past, but I hope you'll answer a few questions.

Did the Emotional Affair occur with a coworker? 
Did you use work as a cover to keep the contact a secret?
Did you tell your husband or did he discover it on his own?
Did you receive any consequences?
Did either of you get Individual counseling?
Did you both go to marriage counseling?

Sorry, on the surface a decade seems long, but if the issues were never dealt with I can understand his fear.


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

Are you in any kind of counseling? Sometimes MC and IC help. I think your husband has too much pent up anxiety and resentment, and there was a major rugsweep. Did you come clean completely? Offer to take a polygraph test. Remember, you are the WS, you have to do the heavy lifting.

If you cannot stay with him, divorce. He has been living in a prison for the last 10 years, and so are you. 

If you want to save the marriage (if there is something to be saved in the first place), start IC,MC, and take a poly.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

> If this is how I have to live the rest of my life, I don't think I can ... isn't 10 years of distrust enough? What can I do to be able to live a life that isn't always answering to his distrust?


An affair is a very traumatic experience for the betrayed spouse.
Have you attended marriage counseling? If not, I suggest you both do it right away.


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## dontbeused (Nov 15, 2013)

You have to let go of wanting to be 100% trusted. You gave up that right when you broke the most important part of marriage, trust.
You try to rebuild it by your willingness and want to make your H feel like he matters. He should feel you are 100% transparent.
You should under no circumstances be getting into a car alone with a male coworker and driving anywhere, what the heck is wrong with you for thinking that is okay? Your doing this and thinking it wrong of your H to not want this should one show you how much you hurt him, but 2 show you how disconnected you are from how you made him feel. You do not care,, and this action alone proves that. If it proves it to me, I can only imagine how it would feel, if I was the man you claim to love.
He has no chance of getting over it, with as little as you respect the damage you did to him.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

wonderwoman83 said:


> When he discovered the affair, he made me wear a letter A to the supermarket.


WTF? Did this accomplish what he wanted to accomplish? I don't think I'd have done that, nope.

Can you invite him to come with you for the training? That way, he can be there to reassure himself. 

Nothing that's happened in the last 10 years has reassured him. If you haven't tried counseling, this would be the time. If that doesn't help to move the two of you forward, then you have to decide if you can live with being Hester Prynne the rest of your life.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

I have a spidey sense


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

wonderwoman83 said:


> 10 years ago, my husband discovered that I was having an emotional affair - he was a friend - we spent time together, texted, never had sex. But I kept the relationship a secret.
> 
> To this day, when I have to stay late at work, he doesn't trust that I am telling the truth. When a co-worker had to drive me home, my husband almost came and got me (30 minutes out of his way) because of the thoughts that are going through his head. I have the opportunity to attend an awesome training opportunity that is 5 days long and would be totally paid for by my work. But he has made it clear that there is no way I could go.. and that it is all my fault... he wouldn't feel this way if it wasn't for my actions.
> 
> ...


I'm dubious - but what the hell!
*
How long until I can live a normal life? *
Never of course - you can't. You're the one who took the 'normal' ripped up that book and you live by the scraps that remain 

You cheat on someone and that's what it means. I'll repeat it. THAT IS WHAT THAT MEANS 

*isn't 10 years of distrust enough?*

Maybe it's time for you both to accept it will never work - trust is not something that ever comes back you just have to make do with a repaired trust kit, and one that will never EVER match up to the original 

It's sad but this is infidelity THIS IS IT

If only human beings listened as a default


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I think we need more information. Sorry, I know it is 10 years and is supposed to be in the past, but I hope you'll answer a few questions.
> 
> Did the Emotional Affair occur with a coworker?
> Did you use work as a cover to keep the contact a secret?
> ...





> You should under no circumstances be getting into a car alone with a male coworker and driving anywhere, what the heck is wrong with you for thinking that is okay?


Some excellent points above.

I will say something to both sides here...

HE needs to find a more effective way to manage his anxiety and distrust. You have every right to confront him about that. Wearing some letter A to the supermarket does not repair trust. He is just humiliating you and himself behaving like that. i would never advocate that.

YOU need to get your head out of your butt and realize that time does not repair broken trust, trustworthy behavior repairs trust.

Wearing some scarlet letter to the supermarket does not repair trust. You couldn't work for two whole days? Seriously? You think that working for two days is more important than saving your freaking marriage? Your marriage was in serious jeopardy and you are worried about missing two days of work? No wonder your husband doesn't trust you if that's your attitude. Put your marriage first, not your work.

You need to stop putting your work first and start realizing that if you want to repair a broken marriage you need to earn back his trust with trustworthy behavior. Getting into cars with male co-workers does not engender trust!

If this is your attitude towards your marriage I wouldn't trust you either. Ten years is irrelevant. Your trustworthy behavior is what is relevant, and i don't read much here in that department.

You get into cars with male co-workers for rides home, and you complain about your spouse when he wants to get involved and do it instead? Seriously? You should be thanking him for wanting to protect something you so recklessly neglect.

And now you want to go away for five days on some work training? You expect him to trust you?

Your behavior and attitude is not trustworthy, sorry.

The more effort you put into protecting your own marriage rather than leaving your husband to do all the heavy lifting the more he will trust you.

What are you doing now to protect your marriage, voluntarilly?

Getting into cars with co-workers, complaining when your spouse wants to drive you home instead, going on five day training trips for your work.. again...

Do you know most affairs start in the workplace?

Your husband has every right to distrust you right now. Start protecting your own marriage so he doesn't' have to do the work for the both of you. His anxiety will lessen and he won't have to do all the heavy lifting... He is probably just as sick of that as you are.

Not cheating for ten years isn't enough. What are you doing to protect your marriage? Protect your marriage so he doesn't have to protect it for you. He has to protect his marriage on his side already. He does not want to have to protect your side too. What are you doing to lighten his load so he can trust you to do this yourself?


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

16 years later, wife still brings it up from time to time. Sorry but if you can't take the heat then you shouldn't have played with fire.

It's about how much you're willing to take to make amends for what you've done. But abuse isn't tolerated, he's borderline IMO but not there yet. I believe my wife witheld sex from me years back for my affair. I was ready to walk out and divorce over it but in the end she and I worked out a good compromise that works for me.

So, the big question is, are you about ready to say to him

"It's been 10 years, just let it go...." If so, then start packing and move on with your life.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Ten years does not matter.. what have you done with that ten years is the question.

I don't agree with OP suggesting that he simply has to "let it go"... that's ridiculous.. particularly when you are getting into cars with male co-workers for rides home...

It does not appear as if you have learned much about protecting a marriage in your ten years...

Your husband right now would be a fool to simply "let it go.."


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> So ..... if you are truly remorseful .... Suck it up and live with it.


It doesn't make sense. At all.


wonderwoman83, if ou are real.. it's time to put your foot down or move on. This is no way to live.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

wonderwoman83 said:


> When he discovered the affair, he made me wear a letter A to the supermarket.


Wow.

After a betrayal, the betrayed will never trust the betrayer again. Not the way they did before.

If you do not want to live this life with him anymore, my advice is to get a divorce because it seems this is how it is going to be from now on.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

The Middleman said:


> If he us anything like me, he will hold the door for open for you so you can have an easy exit. Sorry to say this but you are reaping what you have sowed. So ..... if you are truly remorseful .... Suck it up and live with it.


Or not. 

He could have let her go long ago but didn't. So he didn't hold the door open for her.

She could be truly remorseful. Telling her to "suck it up and live with it" doesn't really alleviate the problem. Yes, she cheated but she doesn't have to stay in this marriage either. Neither of them do. It sounds like an unhealthy marriage anyway.

OP, sometimes it cannot be reconciled. In those cases, divorce is the best option.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Assuming this is real, when is it time for a BS to "call off the dogs"? I completely understand that a BS may need a lot of time to process the betrayal and to heal from this. I can understand if the guy (or a woman) needs up to 5 years to figure things out. 

There must come a time where the BS needs to start taking ownership of his or her own miserableness and pain within the relationship. The WS needs to be front and center and helping the BS heal at the start and for a few years after that. But after 5 years and living this way for 10 years and the BS is still acting as if the betrayal was yesterday is a bit much. If he's not trusting and miserable 6 years into an R, then it's on him to pull the plug and to stop wasting his and the OP's time. 

If you don't have trust in your marriage then you don't have a marriage worth saving. At some point in all of this, the healing MUST include the ability to trust again. Without that, then there never was a reconciliation.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> If he's not trusting and miserable 6 years into an R, then it's on him to pull the plug and to stop wasting his and the OP's time.
> 
> If you don't have trust in your marriage then you don't have a marriage worth saving. At some point in all of this, the healing MUST include the ability to trust again. Without that, then there never was a reconciliation.


:iagree:

This marriage is dead and has been for awhile.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

I can't believe how many people are posting just to tell people to get a divorce... that should be mentioned only under cases of abuse, addiction, or the like...

There should be advice on repair, for both spouses, not just a quick "give up and divorce" attitude. People know divorce is an option, your role here is to offer them something less destructive than that.

Everyone here is so eager to pull the trigger.

People come here for help everyone, not to get pessimistic advice to surrender and divorce based a couple internet posts of one-sided information.

Let's see some brainstorming rather than some gauntlet throwing please...


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> I can't believe how many people are posting just to tell people to get a divorce... that should be mentioned only under cases of abuse, addiction, or the like...
> 
> There should be advice on repair, for both spouses, *not just a quick "give up and divorce" attitude.* People know divoce is an option, your role here is to offer them something less destructive than that.
> 
> ...


Ten Years... At some point, you need to call the patient. The paddles are not resuscitating the patient...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Allen_A said:


> I can't believe how many people are posting just to tell people to get a divorce... that should be mentioned only under cases of abuse, addiction, or the like...
> 
> There should be advice on repair, for both spouses, not just a quick "give up and divorce" attitude. People know divorce is an option, your role here is to offer them something less destructive than that.
> 
> ...


Pessimistic advice? How about REAL advice? 

From my point of view, he is emotionally blackmailing her and has been for a long time now. That is abusive. Hence, divorce.

There is hardly anything to salvage here. Unless he somehow acknowledges that they both need to move forward and not stay stuck. 

Having her wear a scarlet A out in public? Really? That's normal? I don't think so.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Wonderwoman, I am curious -- before your EA, did your husband emotionally blackmail you with things? Was he distrustful of you before this happened? Does he get on with your family? Your friends? Was he married before? Does he fight dirty?


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Ten Years... At some point, you need to call the patient. The paddles are not resuscitating the patient...


Ten years or ten minutes does not matter.. it's what you do with that time that makes the difference.

And by my read not much has been done here other than posturing... No real repair work.

You have one spouse who is reckless with their relationships with her co-workers, and the other spouse is overcompensating and over-protective.

That is not a dead marriage, that is a marriage badly in need of repair.

The fact that they let this go for ten years like this is a whole other discussion.

The length of time a marriage suffers with mis-management does not in any way dictate whether it is "dead" or not.

Heck you only have a few posts here with a one-sided perception of the situation.. you cannot make reckless diagnosis based on that little amount of information.

That's terrible support practice.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Having her wear a scarlet A out in public? Really? That's normal? I don't think so.


I said outright that the scarlet A was ridiculous.

You cannot suggest your advice is "real" when you only have one spouse here to speak for the marriage. And I most certainly would not advocate divorce to anyone with only half the story unless there is a pattern of emotional abuse or physical abuse taking place here. There is no pattern of abuse here. The only line I read being crossed here is this ridiculous scarlet letter. Which was apparently ten years ago.

By my read we have a woman who is reckless with her interpersonal relationships at work and a husband who is over-protective to compensate.

That does not spell divorce, that means repair.

You are condemning a marriage without even speaking with the husband, that's rather obtuse to say the least.



> There is hardly anything to salvage here.


You can't jump to that conclusion from a few posts from one spouse, that's ridiculous to suggest you can even come close to saying that with any confidence.



> Unless he somehow acknowledges that they both need to move forward and not stay stuck.


Yes, THAT is the part that we are here for. Not to be pessimistic and declare marriages dead or there's hardly anything left to salvage. Posters don't need to hear that in my opinion. They need solutions and constructive positions to work from.

I agree they are stuck, I agree they need to move forward, but your blatant hand waving that there's nothing left to salvage is just pessimistic and short-sighted given that you haven't even heard one syllable of what the husband has to say.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Allen_A said:


> That's terrible support practice.


No. If they can't make it work, there is no point in wasting another ten years of their lives together.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> No. If they can't make it work, there is no point in wasting another ten years of their lives together.


First off no one here is suggesting that she spend (note I said spend not waste, i don't consider repair time a waste) ten more years repairing this.

And again you are in no position to suggest if they can or cannot "make it work." All you have to work with is a few posts from one spouse on an internet forum. That is not enough to condemn any marriage as hopeless which is more or less what you are suggesting with your pessimism.

In my opinion this poster is not working on her marriage at all, she is spending far too much effort on her workplace and career rather than repairing a marriage that is ailing. I would not be at all surprised to find out the man she was involved with ten years ago was someone in her workplace.

We are here to help people, not to feed into their hopelessness and pain.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Sorry, it kind of seems to me that her BS never hit that point of acceptance where he understands if she wants to cheat, nothing can protect him, nor can he protect himself from it. It’s a large insecurity.... Talk openly about it and realistically. Little things can help like putting family finder on your smartphone, so anytime he wants to see where you are he can ping the gps. Be accountable; Where, when, and who you are with for anything out of the ordinary.

Your seminar is going to be hard. Since it’s been a decade, I think you should make this into your hill. It is good for your career that benefits you both. You understand he will be wreck, so you want to work with him to see what you might can do to help him. It may mean a ton of phone calls and detailed “debriefs” of your day he can back up. Keep all the paper and bring it home. Don’t pack anything sexy at all. Nightly phone calls before bed, etc. Honestly, you’d rather this not be a dealbreaker for him, but after a decade if you going to a professional seminar (and proving that is what this is) to him is going to be this insurmountable thing for him, maybe it is time to end the marriage. 

Basically, validate his insecurity and distrust and why he has it.. But even he knows he can’t lock you in a tower. He’s going to have to find a comfort level and experience some discomfort. You just try to make that discomfort as minimal as possible.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Allen_A said:


> but your blatant hand waving that there's nothing left to salvage is just pessimistic and short-sighted given that you haven't even heard one syllable of what the husband has to say.


The husband isn't the one here posting. The wife is. Also, one could easily say you also have "short-sighted" viewing in that you refuse to see another option except to stay married. Not every marriage lasts. In fact, 50% of them end in divorce.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Meh-- one post (I) wonder....


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Racer said:


> Your seminar is going to be hard. Since it’s been a decade, I think you should make this into your hill. It is good for your career that benefits you both.
> 
> Basically, validate his insecurity and distrust and why he has it.. But even he knows he can’t lock you in a tower.


But he won't let her go. He's already told her she's basically not allowed to go and it's her own fault she cannot go to her work's seminar.

Tower-locking is the perfect way to describe this thread.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Racer said:


> Sorry, it kind of seems to me that her BS never hit that point of acceptance where he understands if she wants to cheat, nothing can protect him, nor can he protect himself from it.


That is false, sorry. There are many things spouses can do to protect a marriage from infidelity. That in my opinion is what should be offered here, advice on how to repair a marriage to minimize the risk of infidelity, - not condemnatory remarks about the overall state of a marriage without hearing what her spouse has to say...



Racer said:


> It’s a large insecurity.... Talk openly about it and realistically. Little things can help like putting family finder on your smartphone, so anytime he wants to see where you are he can ping the gps. Be accountable; Where, when, and who you are with for anything out of the ordinary.


Or actually talk to your spouse about how you feel...



> Your seminar is going to be hard. Since it’s been a decade, I think you should make this into your hill. It is good for your career that benefits you both. You understand he will be wreck, so you want to work with him to see what you might can do to help him.


Much better, thank you.



> It may mean a ton of phone calls and detailed “debriefs” of your day he can back up. Keep all the paper and bring it home. Don’t pack anything sexy at all. Nightly phone calls before bed, etc. Honestly, you’d rather this not be a dealbreaker for him...


Excellent suggestions... and support.



> but after a decade if you going to a professional seminar (and proving that is what this is) to him is going to be this insurmountable thing for him, maybe it is time to end the marriage.


You need to stop this, the poster I am sure already has that in the back of her mind. Our job is to help people avoid pulling the trigger without thinking it through.

And again ten years does not repair anything, ten years of hard marital repair does... and it is not clear here at all that much work has been done to repair this since it first happened. Until that repair work is done, this affair happened yesterday.



> Basically, validate his insecurity and distrust and why he has it.. But even he knows he can’t lock you in a tower. He’s going to have to find a comfort level and experience some discomfort. You just try to make that discomfort as minimal as possible.


Much better...


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Jellybeans said:


> But he won't let her go. He's already told her she's basically not allowed to go and it's her own fault she cannot go to her work's seminar.
> 
> Tower-locking is the perfect way to describe this thread.


Yep, but it needs to be her hill. His insecurity has gotten to the point where perfectly normal stuff is banned. That's how far overboard he has gotten with his fears. It's what bothers me; He is allowing his fear and insecurity to take precedence in their lives instead of facing it and working on it. 10 years. I could understand this at 2 years, but 10? He hasn't worked on those fears or taken measures to find a level of comfort.

Unless we are missing something critical here like the EA partner being there or this is somehow directly related to her affair and a massive trigger, I can't explain his behavior this far out in R.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> The husband isn't the one here posting. The wife is. Also, one could easily say you also have "short-sighted" viewing in that you refuse to see another option except to stay married. Not every marriage lasts. In fact, 50% of them end in divorce.


Because he's not here... so what? Does that mean he has no right to a voice?

You are being almost as bad as a marital interloper in an affair if you are just going to wave a man off simply because he isnt' in the room part of the discussion. Give this guy a voice, particularly because he isn't' here to do that himself.

Fifty percent of marriages divorce not out of fate, but out of choices. And you are suggesting that those 50% that divorced did so and are best to be so.. that's an assumption on your part.

In my opinion many divorces should not happen and far too many "well intentioned" people push others to pull the trigger rather than helping them do the hard and rewarding work of marital repair.

Stop pushing divorce on a "talk about marriage" forum.. divorce should be a last resort unless there is a pattern of emotional or physical abuse, or there is an untreated addict in the home.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Allen_A said:


> And again you are in no position to suggest if they can or cannot "make it work." .


And neither are you to suggest they can actually "make it work." 



Allen_A said:


> All you have to work with is a few posts from one spouse on an internet forum. That is not enough to condemn any marriage as hopeless which is more or less what you are suggesting with your pessimism. .


That is your take on what I am suggesting and other with regards to divorce. But the fact is divorce is a very real thing that does happen in marriages, especially ones that cannot be reconciled. 



Allen_A said:


> In my opinion this poster is not working on her marriage at all, she is spending far too much effort on her workplace and career rather than repairing a marriage that is ailing.


You aren't in a position either to suggest whether she is working or not working on repairing her marriage. 

A woman can have a career and be married at the same time. 

Look, I think we can all agree that she done messed up hugely. But the fact is: if they cannot move through it together, there is nothing to salvage here. It takes TWO.



Allen_A said:


> We are here to help people, not to feed into their hopelessness and pain.


"We are here to help people?" I notice you are new to TAM. TAM is an open forum. Suggesting that any other point of view is "feeding into their hopelessness and pain" is not very open-minded. 



Allen_A said:


> *You need to stop this*, the poster I am sure already has that in the back of her mind. *Our job* is to help people avoid pulling the trigger without thinking it through.
> 
> Much better...


So now you are telling TAMers to "stop this" and what their "job" is and when they agree with you it's "much better?"


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Racer said:


> Yep, but it needs to be her hill. His insecurity has gotten to the point where perfectly normal stuff is banned.


And she is getting into cars for rides home from male co-workers and making an issue of her husband offering to drive her. Two red lights there that he has every right to raise alarm about. And this is still happening ten years later.



> That's how far overboard he has gotten with his fears.


And this poster is feeding those fears with reckless marital behavior. This is a marital dynamic, it's not clear that this is some issue that exclusively belongs to him. She's feeding it with recklessness.



> It's what bothers me; He is allowing his fear and insecurity to take precedence in their lives instead of facing it and working on it. 10 years.


They are doing this, not just him. It's the both of them.



> I could understand this at 2 years, but 10? He hasn't worked on those fears or taken measures to find a level of comfort.


An affair can be repaired in two years, or the repair can be neglected for ten.. you have this idea in your head that just because ten years have passed, that the repair work magically gets done. It can go for twenty and the repair work still gets untended to. And you have no idea what he has done or has not done to repair this, he's not here to voice that. All you know is what his wife here is saying, and more important how reckless and dismissive she is about the safety of her own marriage.



> Unless we are missing something critical here like the EA partner being there or this is somehow directly related to her affair and a massive trigger, I can't explain his behavior this far out in R.


N-o r-e-p-a-i-r W-o-r-k D-o-n-e.

That's how you explain that, and that is something they both need to do. It is not clear to me that either of them have done so.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

How would you feel if he had the affair?


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> And neither are you to suggest they can actually "make it work."


I am not concluding anything. I am advocating that they explore that and ignore nay-sayers pushing divorce for the time being. 



Jellybeans said:


> That is your take on what I am suggesting and other with regards to divorce. But the fact is divorce is a very real thing that does happen in marriages, especially ones that cannot be reconciled.


And people who are feeling desperate and hopeless do not need to hear people pushing divorce. There is far too much negativity in their heads already, they don't need more. 




Jellybeans said:


> You aren't in a position either to suggest whether she is working or not working on repairing her marriage.


Yes I am. She just gave us evidence to suggest she's not. Getting into cars for rides home with male co-workers is a huge "no no".. and making a stink when your spouse offers to drive you makes that much much worse. She should be thanking him rather than complaining. And that didn't happen just ten years ago.



Jellybeans said:


> A woman can have a career and be married at the same time.


Did anyone on this thread suggest otherwise?



Jellybeans said:


> Look, I think we can all agree that she done messed up hugely. But the fact is: if they cannot move through it together, there is nothing to salvage here. It takes TWO.


The fact is you don't know if there's anything left to salvage here. All you have is a post from one spouse. That is not enough to draw any radical conclusions like "divorce".

Yes, she messed up, and according to her own posts she is still messing up now.

You don't know if they can move through this together or not, neither do I. All we can do is suggest they try, and offer them some detailed directions on how to go about that.



Jellybeans said:


> "We are here to help people?" I notice you are new to TAM. TAM is an open forum. Suggesting that any other point of view is "feeding into their hopelessness and pain" is not very open-minded.


I am suggesting that the divorce gun be put back into the holster for now until you have a lot more information than one post from one spouse. Put the guns away and do some work first.



Jellybeans said:


> So now you are telling TAMers to "stop this" and what their "job" is and when they agree with you it's "much better?"


I am suggesting radical advice be withheld until it is called for, such as cases of patterns of abuse or addiction that is not treated.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

harrybrown said:


> How would you feel if he had the affair?


That's not the case here. I am more than happy to discuss hypotheticals, but not on someone else's thread where they aren't related to the situation at hand.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> "We are here to help people?" I notice you are new to TAM. TAM is an open forum. Suggesting that any other point of view is "feeding into their hopelessness and pain" is not very open-minded.


I will remind you of the forum rules : 

_8. Be supportive of others and their desire to have happier, healthier relationships.
_

Are you being supportive of this poster and her desire to have a happier healthier marriage? Really?


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Honestly I don't know why your husband would want to live that way. I decided I wouldn't, or couldn't...so I am divorcing my WW. It seems masochistic to me. I left because I knew I could never trust her again. If after 10 years he still doesn't trust you, he never will. That's the fallout from infidelity. Whether or not you think it's fair, or that he should be over it by now - he's not, and never will be.

I don't know why either of you would want to live that way. When you betrayed your husband, you murdered his trust for you. 

It's not going to change. If you can't live like that, then you know what you need to do. Just realize it's of your own making. Your husband has a wound that will never heal, no matter what you do (or don't do). Sad, isn't it?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It's hardly promoting happiness to tell someone to stay in a marriage that is unhealthy.

Also, are you familiar with this forum rule:

*5. No posting just to incite people or start arguments. (aka "trolls")
*

It appears that you, as a new member, are posting to try to get a rise out of anyone who offers a different point of view from you. That's an interesting way to join an online community. 

There are entire sections about divorce on Talk About Marriage. There are many members are who themselves divorced. 

But I digress so as not to get off-topic. The bottom line is that it takes two to make it work. And if it's not working, they could always divorce.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Healer said:


> Whether or not you think it's fair, or that he should be over it by now - he's not, and never will be.


You don't know that. You have never met the man. You have no idea what success or failure he has had with treatment or recovery on this issue.



> It's not going to change


And how on earth do you know that?



> Your husband has a wound that will never heal, no matter what you do (or don't do). Sad, isn't it?


You are making some wild and reckless assumptions about a man you have never met.

You read as bad as an OM in an affair who is telling a woman to divorce her husband and run away with him.

You don't know these things. You are just being negative.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> It's hardly promoting happiness to tell someone to stay in a marriage that is unhealthy.


No, I am advocating she repair the marriage into a healthy one rather than pulling the trigger out of hopelessness and frustration.



> Also, are you familiar with this forum rule:
> 
> *5. No posting just to incite people or start arguments. (aka "trolls")
> *
> ...


I am keeping the discussion on point. I am posting to challenge what appear to be unhelpful posts.

And mind-reading isn't constructive here. You have no idea what I am "trying" to do... 



> There are entire sections about divorce on Talk About Marriage. There are many members are who themselves divorced.


And this poster did not post there did she...?



> But I digress so as not to get off-topic. The bottom line is that it takes two to make it work. And if it's not working, they could always divorce.


You think she doesn't' know what a divorce is?

If she wanted a divorce, she would be on a divorce forum, not an infidelity forum.

Your services may be better suited to a divorce advocacy forum.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Allen, I don't necessarily disagree with your position that this marriage is still repairable, but it's not your place to dictate to other members what advice may be given. You need to back off from that stance. Offer the advice you want to offer but be aware that other posters may see things differently and have as much right to offer what they see as appropriate advice as you do.

Frankly your attempts to silence Jellybeans amount to a thread jack.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> You don't know that. You have never met the man. You have no idea what success or failure he has had with treatment or recovery on this issue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Clearly, anything anyone types on here is based on opinion - including what you just posted. We're all big kids here so I don't feel the need to add the "IMO" disclaimer to everything I type.

If a man hasn't gotten over her betrayal in 10 years - what, he will in another 10?  I'm not "just being negative". I'm making conclusions based on personal experience, the hundreds of stories I've read here on TAM and the details provided by the OP.

"You read as bad as an OM in an affair who is telling a woman to divorce her husband and run away with him."

I'll bite my tongue on that one as I don't feel like getting banned.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> Allen, I don't necessarily disagree with your position that this marriage is still repairable, but it's not your place to dictate to other members what advice may be given. You need to back off from that stance. Offer the advice you want to offer but be aware that other posters may see things differently and have as much right to offer what they see as appropriate advice as you do.
> 
> Frankly your attempts to silence Jellybeans amount to a thread jack.


Someone had to speak up. I apologize for getting off topic.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> Someone had to speak up.


Really?


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> HE needs to find a more effective way to manage his anxiety and distrust.


He does, huh? Tell us what else betrayed spouses "NEED" to do. Clearly we're going about this all wrong.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> But after 5 years and living this way for 10 years and the BS is still acting as if the betrayal was yesterday is a bit much.


Who are you to tell a BS to "get over it"?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Allen_A said:


> *You read as bad as an OM in an affair who is telling a woman to divorce her husband and run away with him*.


This is completely inappropriate. 



Allen_A said:


> Your services may be better suited to a divorce advocacy forum.


Say what? 



Healer said:


> I'll bite my tongue on that one as I don't feel like getting banned.


Right?! 




Nucking Futs said:


> Frankly your attempts to silence Jellybeans amount to a thread jack.


Ah yes. Good 'ol thread-jacking.



Allen_A said:


> Someone had to speak up.


By telling other members they are being reckless and just as bad as someone who is running off from their marriage? 

Are we being put on?


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Healer said:


> If a man hasn't gotten over her betrayal in 10 years - what, he will in another 10?


Ten years does not repair infidelity, it's what you do with that ten years...

And in my opinion wearing a scarlet letter to the supermarket while hopping into cars with male co-workers for rides home is not marital repair.

They could go for twenty and not repair anything... you can repair a marriage from infidelity in months, or you can hum and haw about it and leave it go untreated for ten years.

To be negative about this is not constructive. Infidelity in marriage can be repaired. You guys just have this attitude that becuase they haven't done so, that means they need to give up.

You aren't even asking her 

a. what have you done over the last ten years to repair this?
b. what have you done over the last ten years to aggravate this?
c. what has he done over the last ten years to repair this?
d. what has he done over the last ten years to aggravate this?

That in my opinion is the next step here, not to fan the flag of divorce.

I am sure a married woman is well-aware that divorce is an option, they don't need a reminder.

She clearly does need an education in marital safety and repair.

How about some suggestions in that direction to be helpful?


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Ten years of untreated infidelity aftermath is like ten years of untreated disease...

You don't just decide "well, it hasn't gone away by now, it never will.. lets just give up on this..." 

You finally offer some much needed and long over due treatment first.

If the treatment isn't working then you may want to consider terminating the marriage.

Treat the problem first, and just leaving the problem fester for ten years is not treatment in my opinion. That does appear to be what the poster believes.

Untreated infidelity aftermath ten years later to the betrayed still feels like the first 48 hours after disclosure day.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> How about some suggestions in that direction to be helpful?


Indeed! We're waiting...


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

You were in the wrong. Ten years ago. You did what he asked.

Personally, I would have told him to get bent if my H demanded I wear a letter A.

And if he interferred with my job, he's get the same response. And I'd go to the training. Period. 

Infidelity is not okay no matter how you sugar-coat it, but geez, he sounds like a high school boy.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

Healer said:


> Who are you to tell a BS to "get over it"?


I'm a BS, and I'd tell him it's time to get over it.

Ten years? For one EA??? Move on. She's still with him isn't she?

Does he have any ownership for her wandering feelings?

Based on the small amount I've read, I bet that answer would be yes.

And if my H EVER forbade me to go on work travel, I'd pay my own way on the next flight out. 

I spent 2 weeks in DC with my male boss. My H never said a word. If course he spent 2 months in Singapore with his female co-worker.....


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

LonelyinLove said:


> I'm a BS, and I'd tell him it's time to get over it.
> 
> Ten years? For one EA??? Move on. She's still with him isn't she?
> 
> ...


People who have suffered the ultimate betrayal by the one person they were supposed to be able to count on aren't on anyone's watch but their own. That's great if you're over it - he clearly isn't and nobody can tell him otherwise. Well you can, but it doesn't make it so. It's not up to ANYONE but the BS to get over it or not.

On the other hand - I don't understand why, if one can't ever get over it, they'd want to stay in the relationship. It's not healthy for anyone.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

wonderwoman83 said:


> How long until I can live a normal life? When he discovered the affair, he made me wear a letter A to the supermarket. He wouldn't let me go to work for two days. I did everything he wanted.


This stretches credulity. Is this really true?


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Yep, to me it’s the ten years that makes all the difference in the world. R is about rebuilding the marriage. This sounds like he’s stuck in limbo and making decisions based on his own fears. So there hasn’t be reconciliation happening. As unfair and unjust as it is, a BS also has some work to do in R. You simply can not control your spouse to secure a marriage.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Healer said:


> On the other hand - I don't understand why, if one can't ever get over it, they'd want to stay in the relationship. It's not healthy for anyone.


A lot of people want to save their marriage. A lot of those people are hurting from the trauma of betrayal.

Many of them are caught in the dilemma : 

a. dont' want to leave, they love their spouse and want their marriage
b. dont know how to treat the problem - their spouse is also taking too many reckless risks and won't protect the marriage, despite everything that's happened.

Many people are caught in the middle and desperately want and need treatment, both betrayed and the betrayer.

The end result is years and years of banging your head against the wall frustrated with the dilemma, but clueless as how to treat the problem.

It's quite common.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Healer said:


> People who have suffered the ultimate betrayal by the one person they were supposed to be able to count on aren't on anyone's watch but their own.
> 
> On the other hand - I don't understand why, if one can't ever get over it, they'd want to stay in the relationship. It's not healthy for anyone.





Racer said:


> Yep, to me it’s the ten years that makes all the difference in the world. R is about rebuilding the marriage. This sounds like he’s stuck in limbo and making decisions based on his own fears. So there hasn’t be reconciliation happening. As unfair and unjust as it is, a BS also has some work to do in R. You simply can not control your spouse to secure a marriage.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Healer said:


> Who are you to tell a BS to "get over it"?


If he wants to save his marriage, then he'll have to figure out a way to get over it. Like I said earlier in the thread, if he can't work through the betrayal and learn to trust his wife again, then there is no marriage here. I agree with what you wrote earlier that if he knew that he was not going to get over her betrayal, then why is he continuing to torture himself by being with her. At some point, the stink of the affair has to be allowed to dissipate. If he keeps going out of his way to take a big huge whiff of infidelity after all these years, then he becomes the reason for his own unhappiness.

Here's another thought on why he will need to get over it. If he ever wants to pursue a healthy relationship in the future, he'll have to process this pain today. Otherwise, his next GF/wife will be "guilty until proven innocent" for any and all "red flags" that he may see down the road in a new relationship.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> A lot of people want to save their marriage. A lot of those people are hurting from the trauma of betrayal.
> 
> Many of them are caught in the dilemma :
> 
> ...


Allen, what recommendations do you have for the OP to save her marriage?


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> It's quite common.


So is false reconciliation.


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

wonderwoman83 said:


> 10 years ago, my husband discovered that I was having an emotional affair - he was a friend - we spent time together, texted, never had sex. But I kept the relationship a secret.


Your husband discovered the EA. you didn't come clean on your own. there is a big difference , here.



wonderwoman83 said:


> To this day, when I have to stay late at work, he doesn't trust that I am telling the truth. When a co-worker had to drive me home, my husband almost came and got me (30 minutes out of his way) because of the thoughts that are going through his head.


honey why do you let your co-worker drive you home, knowing your husband's sensitivity? I mean if you really care about your husband's feelings, you can ask your spouse to do that. it would be better. don't you think? 



wonderwoman83 said:


> I have the opportunity to attend an awesome training opportunity that is 5 days long and would be totally paid for by my work. But he has made it clear that there is no way I could go.. and that it is all my fault... he wouldn't feel this way if it wasn't for my actions.


both work and marriage are important. you don't have to sacrifice one for another. you and your husband can come up with a plan that he can be on that trip with you. actually there is a couple , here on TAM , that done the same thing. the question is : Do you want your husband on that trip with you? if not, why?



wonderwoman83 said:


> How long until I can live a normal life? When he discovered the affair, he made me wear a letter A to the supermarket. He wouldn't let me go to work for two days. I did everything he wanted.


first , wearing letter A ... well that is not helpful. second you're saying he wouldn't let you go to work for 2 days. my question is : why didn't you offer staying in home together (not going to work) for a few days to bond and stuff?



wonderwoman83 said:


> *Any more than a minor issue* that comes up today, and he is reminded that he can't trust me. He says he wants to but he can't.


any more than minor issue? care to give us some examples.



wonderwoman83 said:


> If this is how I have to live the rest of my life, I don't think I can ... isn't 10 years of distrust enough? What can I do to be able to live a life that isn't always answering to his distrust?


honey , you could write the last paragraph like this : I wanna a have good , happy marriage with my husband. what can we do that to get to that point?
but you didn't the way you have written it, seems you only care about yourself , your happiness. frankly from your whole post it seems you care about your work more than your marriage. it seems that you don't consider your EA a big deal.

anyway ... if you really wanna improve your marriage and you care about your husband and your happiness, I would suggest you both spend time in IC and MC. and tell your husband to come here. so we can hear his side of story too. there are folks here from both sides of fence that really help him and you. if reconciliation is your TOP PRIORITY.

btw you didn't mention any kids!!! hummmm .... interesting....
I mean , you mentioned the affair, your husband's reaction , your work situation. but you didn't mention your kids in any of that. that speaks a lot about your character and your priorities if you have kids.

PS: why do I have a feeling that this thread gonna get removed ? :scratchhead: .... ohh crap


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> If he wants to save his marriage, then he'll have to figure out a way to get over it. Like I said earlier in the thread, if he can't work through the betrayal and learn to trust his wife again, then there is no marriage here. I agree with what you wrote earlier that if he knew that he was not going to get over her betrayal, then why is he continuing to torture himself by being with her. At some point, the stink of the affair has to be allowed to dissipate. If he keeps going out of his way to take a big huge whiff of infidelity after all these years, then he becomes the reason for his own unhappiness.
> 
> Here's another thought on why he will need to get over it. If he ever wants to pursue a healthy relationship in the future, he'll have to process this pain today. Otherwise, his next GF/wife will be "guilty until proven innocent" for any and all "red flags" that he may see down the road in a new relationship.


Agreed - the marriage can't work with him being in the state of mind he is.

But no matter who or how many people tell a BS to "get over it"...it's a lost cause. You can't will someone else to feel or not feel a certain way.

And unless you've been a betrayed spouse, you can never know what it feels like. It's a complete and utter mind f*ck. Your reality is no longer real. That _really_ messes with a person.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Racer said:


> Yep, to me it’s the ten years that makes all the difference in the world. R is about rebuilding the marriage. This sounds like he’s stuck in limbo and making decisions based on his own fears. So there hasn’t be reconciliation happening. As unfair and unjust as it is, a BS also has some work to do in R. You simply can not control your spouse to secure a marriage.


Absolutely. From my reading neither the poster nor her spouse is aware of the work that needs to be done.

Staying home from work for two days and pouting about staying home? I know partners that stay home from work for two weeks to work on their relationship after an affair.

And if this was a workplace affair two days and you are back at the scene of the crime again?

Hardly repairing the marriage with that attitude.

I am hesitant to comment on the betrayed spouse here since he's not here to comment on his own behavior.

The poster here needs to clarify if this is a workplace affair or not, and what work she's done to repair the damage she's done thus far.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> If he wants to save his marriage, then he'll have to figure out a way to get over it. Like I said earlier in the thread, if he can't work through the betrayal and learn to trust his wife again, then there is no marriage here. I agree with what you wrote earlier that if he knew that he was not going to get over her betrayal, then why is he continuing to torture himself by being with her. At some point, the stink of the affair has to be allowed to dissipate. If he keeps going out of his way to take a big huge whiff of infidelity after all these years, then he becomes the reason for his own unhappiness.
> 
> Here's another thought on why he will need to get over it. If he ever wants to pursue a healthy relationship in the future, he'll have to process this pain today. Otherwise, his next GF/wife will be "guilty until proven innocent" for any and all "red flags" that he may see down the road in a new relationship.





Healer said:


> Agreed - the marriage can't work with him being in the state of mind he is.
> 
> But no matter who or how many people tell a BS to "get over it"...it's a lost cause. You can't will someone else to feel or not feel a certain way.


Plan and Healer -- you guys both make great points. 

Maybe "getting over it" is not the best terminology for this. I don't believe anyone ever "gets over" someone cheating on t hem in a marriage BUT they can get THROUGH IT or at least put it somewhat behind them. 

I agree with Plan that there comes a point where there is no more beating a dead horse any further. Sometimes you just have to know when to let something go. 

I agree with Healer that there is no timetable for this kind of thing. 

You guys are both spot on. 



user_zero said:


> PS: why do I have a feeling that this thread gonna get removed ? :scratchhead: .... ohh crap


:rofl:


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> If he wants to save his marriage, then he'll have to figure out a way to get over it. Like I said earlier in the thread, if he can't work through the betrayal and learn to trust his wife again, then there is no marriage here. I agree with what you wrote earlier that if he knew that he was not going to get over her betrayal, then why is he continuing to torture himself by being with her. At some point, the stink of the affair has to be allowed to dissipate. If he keeps going out of his way to take a big huge whiff of infidelity after all these years, then he becomes the reason for his own unhappiness.
> 
> Here's another thought on why he will need to get over it. If he ever wants to pursue a healthy relationship in the future, he'll have to process this pain today. Otherwise, his next GF/wife will be "guilty until proven innocent" for any and all "red flags" that he may see down the road in a new relationship.


Both the betrayed spouse and the wayward need to do work to recover. He is not here, so I don't see the point in advocating what he needs to do. She is.

Simply telling a betrayed spouse to "get over it" isn't constructive.

Advising both spouses to do the work to get over it is constructive, and then following up with specific instructions.

Both spouses need to "get over it".. in their own way.. by doing the work to struggle through it. And in my opinion the poster has not done the work to do that yet.. And she is the one that is here for advice on what she can do...


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Allen, what recommendations do you have for the OP to save her marriage?


Jellybeans offered some great detailed directions on that matter.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Healer said:


> So is false reconciliation.


your point?


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

user_zero said:


> honey , you could write the last paragraph like this : I wanna a have good , happy marriage with my husband. what can we do that to get to that point?
> but you didn't the way you have written it, seems you only care about yourself , your happiness. frankly from your whole post it seems you care about your work more than your marriage. it seems that you don't consider your EA a big deal.


Yes, I read a lot of trivializing how dangerous her behavior is and I suspect that is what is keeping her husband largely distrustful... She won't take infidelity seriously... So he has to overcompensate.



> anyway ... if you really wanna improve your marriage and you care about your husband and your happiness, I would suggest you both spend time in IC and MC. and tell your husband to come here. so we can hear his side of story too. there are folks here from both sides of fence that really help him and you. if reconciliation is your TOP PRIORITY.


Excellent suggestions...



> btw you didn't mention any kids!!! hummmm .... interesting....


Interesting if there are children yes.. if not, then not so interesting...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Allen_A said:


> *Jellybeans offered some great detailed directions on that matter*


About divorce which you said was wrong? 

If you have a problem with my posts, you can just come right out and say it instead of pssyfooting around. 

It's clear that you are picking at this point.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> About divorce which you said was wrong?
> 
> If you have a problem with my posts, you can just come right out and say it instead of pssyfooting around.
> 
> It's clear that you are picking at this point.


I am not picking at anything, you did offer some good constructive suggestions, unless I misread your earlier post.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Which "directions" about "saving marriage" are you referring to?


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> Excellent suggestions...


so How many points do I get?  ... Did I won? ...... Did I won? 

PS: I'm just trying to lighten the mood. I swear , I mean no disrespect.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Acabado said:


> It doesn't make sense. At all.


Then let me try again. 

If she is truly remorseful about her affair then she needs to accept the fact that her husband will never trust her again and he is going to treat her that way for the remainder of her marriage and she should live with it without complaining. If she can't live with that then she should do both of them a favor and leave because maybe she isn't all that remorseful.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> Then let me try again.
> 
> If she is truly remorseful about her affair then she needs to accept the fact thay her husband will never trust and is going to treat her that way for the remainder of her marriage and she should live with it without complaining. If she can't live with that then she should do both of them a favor and leave.


It sounds like you are advocating that because she had the affair, then her husband has the right to treat the OP any way he chooses to for the duration of their time together because she cheated 10 years ago. Did I read that correctly? Are you saying that her H has a "get out of jail free" card to do whatever he wants in his marriage?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> Jellybeans offered some great detailed directions on that matter.


LOL you raise this huge stink about how most of us were shooting from the hip with crappy advice, and when you are asked to provide specifics on what your thoughts are to salvage this - you simply respond with "I agree with what SHE said"...

:rofl:


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> LOL you raise this huge stink about how most of us were shooting from the hip with crappy advice, and when you are asked to provide specifics on what your thoughts are to salvage this - you simply respond with "I agree with what SHE said"...


Not at all. I have offered suggestions as far as overall direction to take and specifics.

I am not going to flood the thread by repeating myself or other suggestions others have offered, if you missed, them go back and re-read.

Too many people are just waving the divorce flag and I find that disappointing, particularly when it is not at all clear that any work has been done here to actually try to repair this.. other than some silly Scarlet Letter being worn at a supermarket which is not at all constructive.


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