# Children Having to Choose Sides



## davebrubeck1 (Dec 2, 2021)

Dear community,

my parents are going to visit us from overseas for the first time in two years. My wife has resisted this for about a year. She argues that my parents have disrespected her last year (see my earlier posts if you're interested) and that therefore our children (both preschoolers) should not see their grandparents as they're bad company. It took me a while to set a boundary and say, I would like my parents to visit and to see their grandkids. She has made various threats, like that she would "make a scene" or that she would divorce me, but backed away from those later.

In the runup to this visit, she is making it difficult, and is dragging the kids into it. I don't know how to explain to my kids what's going on.

Example: My mother is arriving at the airport on Sunday and I will pick her up, take her to her apartment (staying with us was out of the question). Initially our older son was excited to also meet grandma when she arrives, but today my wife talked to him and told him he should stay at home because that is what mom wants. So now my son came to me and said sorry, I can't go to meet grandma at the airport and have dinner with her because I promised it to mom.

I find this really unacceptable behavior from my wife, but I also don't want to go and tell my son, don't listen to mom and come with me and grandma. Essentially she makes our children choose sides but I don't want to join in this game. I am afraid this is going to carry on the whole time my parents are here. How do I explain this to my children?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Her behaviour is disgusting. I hate it when people use their children as pawns and end up messing them up. 
Make arrangements for the children to visit them a few times while they are here, but don't share all the details with her ahead of time. Have day trips out with them, they rarely see their grandparents.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

This sure brings back memories...

Side with your wife. It sucks as she's in the wrong yes but you need to prioritise your immediate family. These are her children as well. Two main decision makers - you and her, extended family is preferred but should not be the priority. I know I was in her boat when I too had childish issues years ago with my ex-mother-in-law but this isn't going to be resolved if you force the issue.

This should have been solved ages ago before your parents arrived and now is not the time to fuel her hate even more.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

davebrubeck1 said:


> 3) My parents. My parents and I are relatively open and we talk every week on the phone. I share my thoughts and problems with them. My wife has very little contact to her family (unless we're visiting). *She thinks that I am too reliant on my parents and in fact too willing to please them, at her expense. I think that is also true to some extent, like when we are visiting my parents I sometimes go out of the way to have them enjoy their time with us but then end up organizing activities that my wife actually doesn't like. They have also criticized us a few times on aspects of our parenting and I did not stand up and defend my wife in front of them, instead just letting their comments slide.*
> Looking back I feel 2) and 3) are definitely where I made mistakes and I need to work on it.


Has there been any improvement at all on this?


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## Rooster Cogburn (9 mo ago)

davebrubeck1 said:


> Dear community,
> 
> my parents are going to visit us from overseas for the first time in two years. My wife has resisted this for about a year. She argues that my parents have disrespected her last year (see my earlier posts if you're interested) and that therefore our children (both preschoolers) should not see their grandparents as they're bad company. It took me a while to set a boundary and say, I would like my parents to visit and to see their grandkids. She has made various threats, like that she would "make a scene" or that she would divorce me, but backed away from those later.
> 
> ...


This is BEYOND F'd up.

Dude you should be LIVID.

Let me tell you a story... last Thanksgiving... my in-laws came over. They have been uber scared of Covid. I mean to the gnat's ass scared. So, day of... all going well. We are eating and having a good meal... talking good stories... father in-law is right across from me from the table. At the end of the dinner... they go to leave... hugs my wife (their daughter)... I go to shake hands with father-in-law... he gives me 'an elbow.' 

I look at his elbow and say straight-laced to his face... 'Nah. That's not how this works. You shake my hand.' He reluctantly did. (I was not/ am not vaccinated... everyone else was.)

Now, I still hold contempt for that gesture... ultimate sign of disrepect in MY HOUSE. BUT I didn't cut them off. 

They can come over... BUT I hold the reigns on how much. I know my kids need a relationship with them. 

Bottom line is- I don't care HOW MUCH disrecpect your wife received but your children SHOULD see the grandparents of both sides NO MATTER WHAT. 

Lay down the law to the wife.


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## Rooster Cogburn (9 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> This sure brings back memories...
> 
> Side with your wife. It sucks as she's in the wrong yes but you need to prioritise your immediate family. These are her children as well. Two main decision makers - you and her, extended family is preferred but should not be the priority. I know I was in her boat when I too had childish issues years ago with my ex-mother-in-law but this isn't going to be resolved if you force the issue.
> 
> This should have been solved ages ago before your parents arrived and now is not the time to fuel her hate even more.


You are bullshitting.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I glanced at your ''hostility'' thread and your wife honestly sounds disturbed. The things she says, the lashing out, the extreme immaturity, threatening divorce when she doesn't get her own way, mindgames, gaslighting and using your kids in this way...

She said she hoped you'd die alone, during a minor argument? Who says this? Not a loving spouse.

I'd take your kids to see their grandparents, and let her stay back to have her next ten tantrums. And you really should consider leaving her. This is probably the first story on here where I have felt genuinely concerned for the safety of another member.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Rooster Cogburn said:


> You are bullshitting.


I don't like it either, but split the children from their mother now and it's going to get worse for the whole family. That's simply no way to get a compromise from his wife.


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## Rooster Cogburn (9 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> I don't like it either, but split the children from their mother now and it's going to get worse for the whole family. That's simply no way to get a compromise from his wife.


Nah. Not necessarily. Agree to disagree.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Rooster Cogburn said:


> Nah. Not necessarily. Agree to disagree.


Heh I don't even disagree with you. You are correct.

Just seeing a solution to this for all parties involved after _several_ steps, if one can resist the initial reactionary step to cut off the mum, which she does deserve but not the kids.

Its pretty fked up yes, but I suspect OP had been cutting his wife out of alot of decision making and ganging up on her with both his parents and now the kids so I don't think he's fully innocent either.

But will see when OP returns to respond.


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## Rooster Cogburn (9 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> Heh I don't even disagree with you. You are correct.
> 
> Just seeing a solution to this for all parties involved after _several_ steps, if one can resist the initial reactionary step to cut off the mum, which she does deserve but not the kids.
> 
> ...


Fair enough. I can respect that.


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

OP,

Your parents visit doesn't make the top ten list of most important issues snd problems you have with your wife.

Do something about the larger issue between your wife and you. If not for you, do it for your children.

The two of you are putting your children in an untenable position and it's not their but both of yours as the adults and parents.


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## davebrubeck1 (Dec 2, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> Has there been any improvement at all on this?


Hi. There has been some improvement on this, though not much. We talked through this issue a few more times and I told my parents that they should stop meddling in our family affairs, and stop giving opinions and recommendations completely in front of my wife. They were reluctant at first but accepted it. I also understand better (I think) that my people-pleasing, conflict avoidant, covertly manipulative stance has done a lot of harm especially when we were visiting my parents and have admitted that to her. 

But I have also put my foot down at times. She initially was of the position that we should never visit my parents ever again, which I said I wouldn't accept, and we ended up agreeing that we could visit them but not stay at their place. 

And this visit is another one of these moments. The first thing was, they are not setting foot in our house because this is my house and I don't want disrespectful people here. To which I said, wait a minute, I also live here. Then it was, the children cannot set foot in my parents' airbnb because it is dirty and the children will get sick from the dirt. Then it was, the children have to stay in daycare all day during the visit because it would disrupt their learning otherwise. And now it is, they cannot eat dinner with their grandparents. So after all this I'm coming down on, I will just listen to my gut feeling and do what I think is reasonable.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

davebrubeck1 said:


> Hi. There has been some improvement on this, though not much. We talked through this issue a few more times and I told my parents that they should stop meddling in our family affairs, and stop giving opinions and recommendations completely in front of my wife. They were reluctant at first but accepted it. I also understand better (I think) that my people-pleasing, conflict avoidant, covertly manipulative stance has done a lot of harm especially when we were visiting my parents and have admitted that to her.


It's only been a few months since that last post so I would consider that progress but the timing of this visit is very bad. It's too soon.



> But I have also put my foot down at times. She initially was of the position that we should never visit my parents ever again, which I said I wouldn't accept, and we ended up agreeing that we could visit them but not stay at their place.


You can put your foot down yes but you need to come to joint decisions.



> And this visit is another one of these moments. The first thing was, they are not setting foot in our house because this is my house and I don't want disrespectful people here. To which I said, wait a minute, I also live here. Then it was, the children cannot set foot in my parents' airbnb because it is dirty and the children will get sick from the dirt. Then it was, the children have to stay in daycare all day during the visit because it would disrupt their learning otherwise. And now it is, they cannot eat dinner with their grandparents. So after all this I'm coming down on, I will just listen to my gut feeling and do what I think is reasonable.


No, this is what it takes, and if you start cutting her out again all this progress will be as your wife mentioned in your last thread 'insincere'.
She sounds very difficult to deal with, throwing up problems in your face constantly but you can't avoid this anymore, avoiding it has led to this IMO.

Reaffirm with your wife that you will include her in all your decisions in regards to your children, but also remind her the effect robbing her own children of their grandparents can have. This is a complex issue though I believe your parents will need to reconcile with her someway. You may even need to sacrifice this dinner to facilitate such reconciliation.


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## davebrubeck1 (Dec 2, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> Heh I don't even disagree with you. You are correct.
> 
> Just seeing a solution to this for all parties involved after _several_ steps, if one can resist the initial reactionary step to cut off the mum, which she does deserve but not the kids.
> 
> ...


OP returns...

You are absolutely right, I am not fully innocent, far from it. I screwed up our move last year badly because I didn't take her objections seriously. I was a bad husband. I broke her trust because I made a promise about the move that I didn't keep. Maybe I ruined the marriage back then, and it is now beyond repair. Or maybe it isn't. But one thing I know is, I don't owe it to my wife to allow her to live out all kinds of revenge fantasies.

I agree with you, the best would have been to prepare this visit in mutual agreement, talk things through, and even before that, work on our marriage, understand each other, take steps toward each other again. I tried all of this, and it didn't work. I have asked her many times to go to counseling, even just a single session, and the answer is always a variation of, that's a waste of time because I don't need to be told what's right and wrong, and this is all just a plot for you to get me to seek compromises and I'm done with that. Ok. What do you say to that?

I want to push back on the idea that I "cut off the mom". I invited my wife to everything that I had planned with my parents for this visit. And I'm just talking going to a restaurant, a trip to the zoo, and things like that. She is the one who says, the children can't see your parents here, there, I will not talk to them, they will not set foot in my (how about our) home... 

By the way I offered that I take our son to the airport to meet grandma and then drop him off at home again so he can eat dinner with mom. That was acceptable to her. But this won't be the last battle.


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## davebrubeck1 (Dec 2, 2021)

A18S37K14H18 said:


> OP,
> 
> Your parents visit doesn't make the top ten list of most important issues snd problems you have with your wife.
> 
> ...


You're right.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

davebrubeck1 said:


> OP returns...
> 
> You are absolutely right, I am not fully innocent, far from it. I screwed up our move last year badly because I didn't take her objections seriously. I was a bad husband. I broke her trust because I made a promise about the move that I didn't keep. Maybe I ruined the marriage back then, and it is now beyond repair. Or maybe it isn't. But one thing I know is, I don't owe it to my wife to allow her to live out all kinds of revenge fantasies.


You know what you did wrong and that's the first step, I find your humility and self-awareness a positive sign that you two can resolve this issue. At the same time yes, you need to be strong but also wiser when your wife does go off the rails.



> I agree with you, the best would have been to prepare this visit in mutual agreement, talk things through, and even before that, work on our marriage, understand each other, take steps toward each other again. I tried all of this, and it didn't work. I have asked her many times to go to counseling, even just a single session, and the answer is always a variation of, that's a waste of time because I don't need to be told what's right and wrong, and this is all just a plot for you to get me to seek compromises and I'm done with that. Ok. What do you say to that?


If she doesn't want to go, don't push it. It sounds as if she doesn't have faith in your sincerity so you need to work on rebuilding that trust first.

"this is all just a plot for you to get me to seek compromises and I'm done with that" - it's obvious her perspective in this, she sees this as a constant battle just like you. Her way, your way, it needs to be 'our way'.



> I want to push back on the idea that I "cut off the mom". I invited my wife to everything that I had planned with my parents for this visit. And I'm just talking going to a restaurant, a trip to the zoo, and things like that. She is the one who says, the children can't see your parents here, there, I will not talk to them, they will not set foot in my (how about our) home...


That's good, I just hope you don't because that would just blow everything up even more and may very well be beyond saving at that point.



> By the way I offered that I take our son to the airport to meet grandma and then drop him off at home again so he can eat dinner with mom. That was acceptable to her. But this won't be the last battle.


It won't be the last battle but I'm glad you guys managed this compromise. It's a start.
But you two really need to stop seeing it as a war/battle whatever. Hell I have better co-parenting relations with my ex-wife, no offense.

Make peace, seriously. Talk with her about joint decision making, no strings attached, find common ground, find boundaries and rules acceptable to both of you. This is going to bite both of you even deeper in the ass as your children age as you guys can't provide a united front.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I think your wife is absolutely wrong to deny your children a relationship with their Grandparents, children should never be dragged into adult issues. Ever.

I also think YOU are wrong to invite your parents into your marriage and discuss things with them that should stay between you and your wife. You need to apologise to your wife for ever doing that, and then NEVER do it again.

I can also tell you that, as a daughter in law with the inlaws from hell, my husbands parents will never, ever step foot in our home again. He doesn't get a vote. If they come in, I will leave and not come back.


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## davebrubeck1 (Dec 2, 2021)

frusdil said:


> I think your wife is absolutely wrong to deny your children a relationship with their Grandparents, children should never be dragged into adult issues. Ever.
> 
> I also think YOU are wrong to invite your parents into your marriage and discuss things with them that should stay between you and your wife. You need to apologise to your wife for ever doing that, and then NEVER do it again.
> 
> I can also tell you that, as a daughter in law with the inlaws from hell, my husbands parents will never, ever step foot in our home again. He doesn't get a vote. If they come in, I will leave and not come back.


Thanks for your balanced view, and sorry to hear your in-laws are giving you a hard time.
Can you explain to me more about not discussing things with my parents? I don’t understand that but my wife seems to have that idea as well. I hate it when I am told to hide things from other people, especially from people I trust. I want to be able to speak the truth and discuss the hardest problems in life with people that are willing to listen. I have heard people say before, everything in the marriage stays in the marriage, and I can’t wrap my head around it at all.


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## davebrubeck1 (Dec 2, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> You know what you did wrong and that's the first step, I find your humility and self-awareness a positive sign that you two can resolve this issue. At the same time yes, you need to be strong but also wiser when your wife does go off the rails.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you. That is great advice. I’ll try to walk that path. I can’t walk it alone. But I hope for the best.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

davebrubeck1 said:


> Thank you. That is great advice. I’ll try to walk that path. I can’t walk it alone. But I hope for the best.


Thats what your wife is for 

Be a team! Good luck mate!


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

davebrubeck1 said:


> Thanks for your balanced view, and sorry to hear your in-laws are giving you a hard time.
> *Can you explain to me more about not discussing things with my parents? I don’t understand that but my wife seems to have that idea as well. I hate it when I am told to hide things from other people, especially from people I trust. I want to be able to speak the truth and discuss the hardest problems in life with people that are willing to listen. I have heard people say before, everything in the marriage stays in the marriage, and I can’t wrap my head around it at all.*


The single biggest reason you never involve others, ESPECIALLY family, in your marriage, is because long after the problem is resolved and we've forgive our spouse our families haven't. It paints a lopsided picture of how things really are, especially when we only share the negative. Marriage issues should stay between spouses. Always.


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

davebrubeck1 said:


> Dear community,
> 
> my parents are going to visit us from overseas for the first time in two years. My wife has resisted this for about a year. She argues that my parents have disrespected her last year (see my earlier posts if you're interested) and that therefore our children (both preschoolers) should not see their grandparents as they're bad company. It took me a while to set a boundary and say, I would like my parents to visit and to see their grandkids. She has made various threats, like that she would "make a scene" or that she would divorce me, but backed away from those later.
> 
> ...


Your wife got a problem . They visit short time, keep it that way. Stand up for your wife you wimp


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