# Finally talked some / Toxic Friends



## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

My WW & I had a talk last night....its been 3 months since I moved back home. We finally got around to talking about what happened

We had gotten some take out food & got some movies to watch. It was a nice night. I really enjoyed our time together.
Then about 2/3 into a movie, she gets bored and gets on her smartphone. I stop the movie in part of my frustration of her being on her phone (since it was her way of contacting the OM).

Then out of the blue, she starts talking about what happened....
She wants to know to what extend do my parents know about what happened. I was caught off guard. I told her that they knew a minimum amount.

She said that the reason she did what she did was that she wanted attention & she was lonely. That when I would come home from work, I would be upstairs on the computer. She works as a nurse from 7 til 7 or 8 & I get off work at or 6. Usually when she got home she just wanted to watch her shows on tv. Most of the shows I'm just not that into that much.....Bachlorette, Dancing w/ Stars, etc. So I would come downstairs when she got home, give her a hug & kiss...then eventually go upstairs & get online while she watched her tv shows. 

Anyway, after I found out about her affair, I confronted her & she basically didnt say anything. I asked her to stop contact with this guy but all she could say was that she was lonely & benn unhappy for a long time...

I wasnt going to let her blame me so I left. I left our home for 6 weeks. During this time I moved all my personal stuff out of the house.

(see my past topics below)

Wife's Cyber Affair...says nothing to do with us - Marriage Builders® Forums

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/54655-update-cyber-affair.html

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During our talk last night, she also said that she has appologized to me several times & that I have yet to appologize for exposing her to her family...esp to her brother. She doesnt know how she will ever repair her relationship with her brother now that he has seen the online conversations that she had with the OM. She said that what she said with the OM was private & no one else needed to know about it. 
That her online fling was just a fantasy for attention....that when she got it out of her system she could proceed with her life from there with leaving me. 
(I guess it was kinda of an exit affair for her)

She said that what she did,..... did not constitute me telling her family & embarassing her in front of them. I had to hold my tongue...

Then she said that she was depressed that she felt that I was slipping back into my old habits....that when she asks me to do something, that I should do it right away, no questions asked & with no sign of frustration on my part.
She explained that when she was a kid, her parents told her no a lot, and would say yes to about anything her older brother wanted. Now later in life, she says she feels whenever anyone tells her no, she feels unloved. So when I don't jump up and do whaever she asks of me, she feels unloved, uncared for & unappreciated.


That when I ask or make comments to her about what she is doing on her phone, it frustrates her. She says that implys that she is doing something wrong. She said that she is not talking to anyone with her phone. She is tired of me asking or making comments about her using her phone.

On the contrary, in my eyes, she has not apologized at all. Nor has she shown any sign or remorse:

* She is still checking her profile on her dating site, not answering but reading the messages these guys send to her. This has been going for 3 months now....she checks about 3-5 times a week.
She checks the site on her off days, while at work & even in the same room with me.
Usually when I am at home, she waits until I am asleep to check.

She has also been searching thru profiles on the dating site as well...
she even tried to access the profile that I made....my alter ego...I had since deleted it. 

* She still has her phone locked. Her phone has been the medium for her affair with this guy. I hate the phone now & see how destructive smartphones can be in the people who will cheat.

* And more thing that she has done.... Like I said, I have been back in our house since Aug 31 (3 months now). On voting day, Tuesday Nov 6, I had to go out of town for my job. That was her off day from work. I left with kisses, hugs, etc. Thought I left that morning on a good note & she seemed happy.
We texted throughout the day....lovey stuff....about what to have for dinner, etc.
She called me on my way back to see how I was doing. She texted me to ask me that once I got off the interstate hwy, to text her letting her know I was home & to pick up cat food before I come home. Well I texted her when I got off the hwy exit & even picked up cat food.
We had dinner & everything seemed fine. I decided to go to bed, but had a gut feeling to check on things. So I checked on the phone records.
There it was....she had called this OM & talked to him for 80 minutes. I suspect the only reason she ended the call was b/c of my text telling her I was close to being home. She ended the call 3 minutes after my text.

I was so sad about finding this out. That next day at work was awful....I felt like dying.

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Toxic Friend to marriage?

There is one friend of hers (lets call her Pam) that knew what my WW did. How do I know...b/c I have read the texts btwn her & my WW. During our talk last night, I asked my WW did her friend know prior to d-day. She said that she knew some stuff. 
The texts btwn the two confirm that her friend Pam knew about my WW's "friend" as she called him. She asked my WW about her "friend" & told her that she wanted my WW to be happy regardless of who she was with....she just wanted her to stay in town & not move away.

I know some have said that the path to reconciliation is to purge yourself of all friends that knew of the affair. I just don't see my WW ever doing this. She just won't be able to....they work together sometimes. The are friends outside of work. 
They are right now watching the Twilight movie together. But this involves some deception as well. Little does her friend now, but my WW & I have already seen this movie. She couldnt dare tell her friend that she has seen the movie already...it would hurt her friends feelings since her friend Pam considered watching the movie as a group event. Anyway, my WW said that she could put on act for her friend & act surprised at the movie's finale. 

---------------------------------
What to do?.....

My WW & I are going on a cruise for a week...in 2 weeks. I get the impression that she has been telling her friend(s) & folks that going on a cruise is a way for her & me to reconnect....and to rekindle our romance for each other. 

Then when we get back, a few days later...the day after Christmas.....she will have hysterectomy surgery. This is my b-day as well. Happy b-day to me... 

I'm not sure if I should confront her with what I know (her checking dating site profile & 80 min phone call to OM) after her surgery or not. My thinking is that I have helped her in a time of need, but she is still betraying me. 
We found out about her needing the surgery about 4 days before she called the OM....and she has been checking/searching the dating site since learning about the need for surgery. 
Basically she hasnt stopped looking on the dating site since I moved back home.

Part of me has let this situation last as long as it has b/c I wanted peace of mind that it was not my fault that my wife cheated on me. That it is her...something inside her lets her be this way.
That she is broken & needs therapy.
I think I have finally accepted this. Its taken me a long time to accept.

Sorry for my rant. I just hope someone can learn from my experience & doesnt have to go thru the pain I have been thru.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

You've put up with a lot. She told you that when she says "jump," the only thing you should say is "how high."

I am glad you are finally realizing some things about your wife.

Did you ever consider that this could be true about you as well:

_something inside her lets her be this way. That she is broken & needs therapy_

What would be your reason for NOT confronting her with her repeated unacceptable behavior in your marriage? Why do you think you should NOT say something about her having an active profile on a dating site and continued contact with her affair partner, while hiding these things from you? I'm not trying to be mean, but I really don't understand why you would put up with it.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

So you went back and nothing has really changed much at all. Back to the status quo but you're just more attentive to her now so that she won't cheat again.

And on top of that, you've got to get on your hands and knees and beg her forgiveness for exposing her to her family and friends.

So, what have you gained out of all of this???

And the icing on the cake, she's still in contact with the OM.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> You've put up with a lot. She told you that when she says "jump," the only thing you should say is "how high."
> 
> I am glad you are finally realizing some things about your wife.
> 
> ...


Oh I appreciate your response...I need a 2x4 hit across me...

I guess I have always been a conflict avoider......
The past conflicts & arguments that I have had with her have always turned out being really upsetting to me. She remembers all these times & has used them against me. 
She is a very resentful type of person. 

I guess I am afraid of the confrontation....idk..

I don't understand why I have either....I'm scared.
Scared of facing the reality. I mean I talk a good game about leaving her & telling her off....but that is always in the future. Its something I tell myself that I will eventually do.

I also think it is b/c I wanted to convince myself that it is not me...that is it her. That no matter how 'good' I act & do what she wants me to do....she will continue doing what she has been doing.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

CH said:


> So you went back and nothing has really changed much at all. Back to the status quo but you're just more attentive to her now so that she won't cheat again.
> 
> And on top of that, you've got to get on your hands and knees and beg her forgiveness for exposing her to her family and friends.
> 
> ...


I used to think that i gained some peace of mind that I am not the culprit in what happened.....

Well, yes I do take responsibility for my half of the problems in our relationship, but those were not a reason for her to cheat.
She made the decision to do that.

It is scary to think that i could eventually be alone. Not having someone in my life is a scary thought.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

So she is still cheating on you.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> So she is still cheating on you.


Yeah, I guess she is. 
Her looking on her dating site profile is cheating to me.
It makes me feel awful...like she is fishing for potentials.

She just looks at the messages these guys send to her...she doesnt respond back. 

I think it has a lot to do with validation for her. Her beauty is something she has always talked about.

But when I confront her about it, she will say that she created the dating profile when we were separated (which is true) and that she truly thought we were over.

My questions to her would be:

Ok, even though we were 'separated'...why were you so quick to put a profile up. I mean, I was just out of the house for 2 weeks when you put that profile up. ???

Then, why are you still actively accessing your dating profile to read messages that were sent to you and to look at other mens profiles on this site. ???

She'll come up with some answers.


I really believe that her friend Pam is a toxic friend to our marriage. She knew about the OM & said nothing about the morality of it to my WW. 
She was though glad that my WW "was giving Jeff another chance. He at least deserves that much."


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

You're in False R, big time. 

Written all over it. Don't let her blame anything on you. And you need to stop holding your tongue and set her straight on exposure and everything else. She had an affair! The last thing she should be worried about is being embarrassed. 

If you continue to go soft jeff its only going to repeat any time she feels 'lonely' again.

Shes gone back on everything, and still being in contact with OM??!!?!

Kick her out/file divorce 

You let this stand your marriage has absolutely no chance. She needs to know you won't tolerate any of this, AT ALL. 

That unless your R demands are followed its over.

Trying to be a nice guy after infidelity WILL NOT WORK. I implore you, please take a stand and man up before this gets even worse.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

jeff_r said:


> It is scary to think that i could eventually be alone. Not having someone in my life is a scary thought.


What,you've never been alone in your life before?


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## lionsguy22 (Dec 2, 2012)

I wouldnt be shocked if it was physical already. I would bet money something was going on.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

jeff_r said:


> It is scary to think that i could eventually be alone. Not having someone in my life is a scary thought.


You're only alone if you choose to be.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

jeff_r said:


> Yeah, I guess she is.
> Her looking on her dating site profile is cheating to me.
> It makes me feel awful...like she is fishing for potentials.
> 
> ...


That is a very telling quote. I'm glad you posted it. It gives you a look inside the thought process of both your wife and her toxic friend. It tells you that in their eyes:

1. Your wife has done nothing wrong. You have. (exposing, etc.)

2. Even though you've done wrong, you deserve another chance (why? you've groveled enough, she's gotten her reveng on you and you've put with it, you could fill in the blank better than me).

3. Taken in context with your wife's dating site, she is ready to leave you at any moment. Her and Pam could have some great adventures together. She is giving you another chance. Better jump when she says so. Better apologize. She's got guys lined up on a dating site waiting for her. She's giving you another chance, but you BETTER not screw it up this time and you BETTER DO WHAT SHE WANTS. THIS is how she sees the situation. She has plenty of alternatives. You have none. You better be happy with what you get from her, or else she'll take even that little bit away.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

Kasler said:


> You're in False R, period.
> 
> Written all over it. Don't let her blame anything on you. And you need to stop holding your tongue and set her straight on exposure and everything else. She had an affair! The last thing she should be worried about is being embarrassed.
> 
> If you continue to go soft jeff its only going to repeat any time she feels 'lonely' again.


It hurts to know this looks like false R....

I just have a gut feeling that she will not accept any of the rules of reconcilliation...transparency, etc, etc

Then I will have to accept that she is gone & I can do no more.
I'm sad knowing this.

In her mind, we just need to move away (somewhere like Atlanta...we are in Fla) 
And in her mind, this is so we can get away from my over protective mother. That the reasons I have "problems" in our relationship, is b/c of my mom.
I don't see it, but my WW thinks this.

Its a really odd mixture of things that my WW resents me about:
- my mom & how she raised me (I am sometime shy)
- I am sometimes uncomfortable in places that I have never been to before
- she wants me to have white teeth
- she wants me to be buff (but she is 250 lbs)
- I should not mention that she needs to lose weight
- she wants me to have honesty (yeah I thought this one was funny too)

So, I got her to write down a list of things....and those above were on that list with a few other things. 
Bizarre & unsettling are just my first reactions.....


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

jeff_r said:


> It hurts to know this* looks like false R*....
> 
> I just have a gut feeling that she will not accept any of the rules of reconcilliation...transparency, etc, etc
> 
> ...


It doesn't 'look' like false R, it is false R, accept that. 

These aren't hiccups.

-*NC broken* (You should already be filing paperwork over this, man up or it'll only continue)

-Not remorseful

-Not owning what she did

-Blameshifting

-keeping toxic friends

-not enforcing new boundaries

-cell phone still locked

I can go on, but I think you get the point.

This is false R and you're in it, don't put your head in the sand on this. 

I'll elaborate in a bit.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

That is a very telling quote. I'm glad you posted it. It gives you a look inside the thought process of both your wife and her toxic friend. It tells you that in their eyes:

1. Your wife has done nothing wrong. You have. (exposing, etc.)

2. Even though you've done wrong, you deserve another chance (why? you've groveled enough, she's gotten her reveng on you and you've put with it, you could fill in the blank better than me).

3. Taken in context with your wife's dating site, she is ready to leave you at any moment. Her and Pam could have some great adventures together. She is giving you another chance. Better jump when she says so. Better apologize. She's got guys lined up on a dating site waiting for her. She's giving you another chance, but you BETTER not screw it up this time and you BETTER DO WHAT SHE WANTS. THIS is how she sees the situation. She has plenty of alternatives. You have none. You better be happy with what you get from her, or else she'll take even that little bit away. 


I see the sarcasm....

She does think that she did something wrong, but feels it did not warrant telling her family about it.

That her online fling with this guy had nothing to do between her & me. She feels that it was a side note...that we were already having problems.
I think that is BS & a cop out.

Yes I see it the same way. I think she feels she can leave anytime & there will be a guy waiting to be with her. That she can be choosy & pick whomever strikes her fancy.
That if I screw up, there is always an escape for her out of our relationship.

Of course, I will screw up something....its inevitable. She can then justify to her friends & mom in leaving me. 

Its a no win situation for me....she feels entitled & wronged by me in exposing her. 

I hurts to hear "give Jeff another chance". 
Another chance b/c of what?


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> You've put up with a lot. She told you that when she says "jump," the only thing you should say is "how high."
> 
> I am glad you are finally realizing some things about your wife.
> 
> ...


This

You say you avoid conflict. Nobody enjoys it. But the above NEEDS to be done. Call her on this. Don't accept her crap excuses.

You know she'll keep doing it .

Confront or accept it. Your choice.


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

Are you attracted to her? 250 lbs sounds quite obese for a woman.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

You say you avoid conflict. Nobody enjoys it. But the above NEEDS to be done. Call her on this. Don't accept her crap excuses.

You know she'll keep doing it .

Confront or accept it. Your choice.
------

Well I already know in how I feel about it....that I can't accept it.
It hurts a little each time when I know she is online looking at her dating site.

I know that she must have some sort of conscience about it.
She'll only access it while I am at work or after I have gone to sleep.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

jameskimp said:


> Are you attracted to her? 250 lbs sounds quite obese for a woman.


This has been an issue since day one.
She was smaller then than she is now, but it was something that I wanted her to work on. 
We talked about a few times...even talked about it in pre-marriage counselling.
She gave me ever indication that would take it seriously.

I didnt think of her weight as a deal breaker, b ut I will admit it does affect my attraction to her.

In some weird way, if she was thin & hot....and she still did what she did....I'd feel worse. I guess in the back of my mind, her being 'curvy' (as they call it) was a defense against infidelity. 
You see, my 1st wife was thin...and she left me for another guy. 

Anyway, we did try to help her. She got a lap band....about 4 years ago. She just stayed the same size or got bigger instead.
Since I have known her, she has never been below a size 18. Right now she is a size 20.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

^ you're fooling and lying to yourself. 

Conscience? She has none, be honest with yourself.

After successfully having an affair do you think she'd be stupid enough to start chatting with OM with you potentially in ear shot?

Stop making excuses for you to do nothing.

Everyday this goes by, and you let her do this she loses respect for you. and you can't have love if you don't respect. 

The only chance your marriage has is if you man up, rough out everything and make something new. 

Or you can continue lying to yourself like you are now. You're wife is damaging this marriage soon beyond repair and since you allow this, you are her accomplice. 

Do you even want to be married to her? because maybe you're just using this as an excuse to have an easy "there was nothing I could do" exit from the marriage. 

You know what to do. Either do them, or accept your whatever broken relationship you have with that woman, cause to call it a marriage would be an insult to the word. When a wife is so callous and uncaring and the husband is metaphorically inside a tool shed trying to convince himself its not hot while its burning down around him


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

It's the cat food - don't buy any more


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

jeff_r said:


> In some weird way, if she was thin & hot....and she still did what she did....I'd feel worse. I guess in the back of my mind, her being 'curvy' (as they call it) was a defense against infidelity.
> You see, my 1st wife was thin...and she left me for another guy.


Are you in counseling for yourself? Sounds like you have some self worth problems....you should expect more for yourself,especially in a marriage.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

Kasler said:


> ^ you're fooling and lying to yourself.
> 
> Conscience? She has none, be honest with yourself.
> 
> ...



I hear you....

This really struck me...
"Do you even want to be married to her? because maybe you're just using this as an excuse to have an easy "there was nothing I could do" exit from the marriage".....

No one has ever confronted me on this. 

I will admit, I have thought of this. 

My first marriage ending with wife leaving for another guy, really killed me. Back then I didnt have the means to snoop & find out what she was up to....until she ended it with me herself.
No chance of working it out...nothing. 
I beat myself up everyday for months....it was a living nightmare

I guess I thought, well this time....I am not going to feel guilty....I will at least try not to beat myself up over this.

so yeah....I am lying to myself.......

I wanted to at least wait until after Christmas....


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## lionsguy22 (Dec 2, 2012)

Sorry man your in for a bad x-mas either way. My as well get the ball rolling, the quicker its over the better for everyone.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

TBT said:


> Are you in counseling for yourself? Sounds like you have some self worth problems....you should expect more for yourself,especially in a marriage.


No I am not.....I was after my divorce though.

I thought I had made it thru....since I met my current wife.
Life was to go on & I'd be happy.


But I can see it....I do have self worth issues.....
I realize that no one would put up with their spouse doing these things....


Ive read her conversations with the OM.....sexual, mutual masterbation.......she would check to make sure I was asleep so she could call him ....usually at 2 or 3 am.

So yeah, she really went all out & knew exactly what she was doing at the time.

Her giving me another "chance at manning up" is an insult....


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

There is no time to wait. 

Or do you think they won't have anything planned for christmas themselves. 

Something will definitely go down on christmas, bet on it. Be it sexting, meet up, they;re gonna try something. 

If you're going to, you need to hash this out. 

Cause every day shes still keeping secrets, every day shes talking to OM whenever she can get the chance, thats more emotions away from you and more to OM.

Maybe I overreach but your wife did not just wake up and decide to be with OM and leave you. 

It happened slowly, they got closer and closer, day by day, and then they took the leap. 

Right now your wife is bending her knees, you gonna let her take that leap?, or is a forced armistice and an empty Christmas more important?


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

lionsguy22 said:


> Sorry man your in for a bad x-mas either way. My as well get the ball rolling, the quicker its over the better for everyone.


Yes, it will suck either way....

B/c i know what she has been doing & hiding all along......
Will she reach out to the OM & wish him a happy Christmas...

My goodness...we are going on a cruise the week before.....
How insane is this.....why does she think this is ok?

I really think she needs therapy....for child/family issues.

Her mom is a part of this issue. Her mom thought the OM was a good guy & that my WW should save herself until she met him in person. 
My WW also told me that her mom sat her brother down before he got married & told him the merits of good oral sex....as way of keeping his wife happy.



Why oh why does this all feel like a nightmare.....


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

Kasler said:


> There is no time to wait.
> 
> Or do you think they won't have anything planned for christmas themselves.
> 
> ...



Well actually, I have no proof she is still in contact with the OM....except for the 80 min phone call.

...I can see what she does on her cell phone....who she calls, texts, etc.

So far no texts to OM. 

Now, I do not see emails that she receives or sends out.
She could have another email account set up.....who knows.

One thing she does do....is access her voice mail a lot.
She has even accessed it at 5:30 am....when I know no one has called her after we go to bed the night before.

A coworker suggested that she might be listening to a saved message that she has in her voicemail archive.

I do have physical access to the phone since I do know the passcode, so I might try to access the voicemail.


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## ChangingMe (Oct 3, 2012)

Jeff, I am sorry you are here. It pains me to read your post. I am a former WW, and it is awful to hear what your wife if putting you through and what you are accepting. 

You need to listen to the posters here. You need to address these things with your WW today. Not after Christmas, not after the cruise. Kasler has said it well -each day she is in contact with the OM, it is less she is connected with you. Sadly, based on her being on dating sites and still in contact with OM, it looks like she is not wanting to be married to you. But if you have any chance at all of possibly saving your marriage (if that is what you want), then you really do have to stand up for yourself and stop putting up with her cheating on you. 

She is not showing a conscience, she is blatantly looking for other men. She is not going to wake up on her own and realize she has to stop. The only chance you have is to cut her off due to her behavior. 

You deserve better. You don't need to wait around while she 'gives you another chance' while still seeing what else is out there. You need to respect yourself enough to choose to be by yourself instead of be with someone who was given a second chance and is using it to see whether there are any upgrades out there that she likes better. 

Again, I am so sorry you are here and that she is doing this to you. Please take care of yourself.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

jeff_r said:


> Well actually, I have no proof she is still in contact with the OM....except for the 80 min phone call.
> 
> ...I can see what she does on her cell phone....who she calls, texts, etc.
> 
> ...


If shes having 80 minute calls with him thats proof shes in contact, period. don't minimize it. 

What do you mean 'might' try to access the voicemail?

Do it. you're falling into a do nothing cycle. 

No ifs maybes or possiblys, DO. 

Also you're ignored confronting, you need to confront now. an empty forced holiday is worth nothing and like someone already said you're x mas is gonna suck either way.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Read this thread in its entirety when you have the time. 

This is how a BS should act after discovering infidelity. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/36022-not-sure-what-do.html


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

jeff_r said:


> Why oh why does this all feel like a nightmare.....


*Listen, this will sound sarcastic, so I'll tell you up front, it isn't.*

You don't have a problem, it only feels like a problem because you're thinking too conventionally, and you're not a conventional kinda guy.

It's very obvious that the idea of confrontation and quitting the marriage is terrifying to you, so don't do it, do the opposite. Go to your wife, and tell her, you don't care anymore, she's free to do as she pleases, tell her you won't check on her anymore, explain that the issues are behind you and you don't want it brought up anymore (try to be firm on this). If she tries to argue, hold up your hand and tell her, that's the end of it, you don't want to hear another word about it.

Now you only have one issue to work on, and guess what, the issue is something you can actually control, your own happiness. Start enjoying yourself, start treating her as a buddy, forget the wife stuff, that hasn't been working out that well anyway, just be friends, you might be surprised and find that you two get along much better.

Ultimately there'll be a side-effect to this that might surprise you, she'll either pursue you, or eventually divorce you, but just think, you won't have to do a thing, she'll do it for you.

T


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Ok, this is going to sound very rude but I don't really mean it as such.

jeff_r

Your wife is a 250 lb. bossy woman who gives you no respect and blatantly cheats on you. And you are afraid of being alone?

My friend there are so many women out there who would gladly treat you so much better. You need to investigate ways to gain confidence and elevate your self worth. You are a valuable commodity in this world. You are a man who wants to love and care for a woman. Stop selling yourself short my friend.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

In addition to filing for divorce, why haven't you disconnected your Internet service and canceled her cellphone?


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Jeff read this whole thread over a couple of times. Look at how pathetic you are acting. Get angry, take the advice you have been given. You don't deserve this. No one does, so stop accepting it. You've not mentioned kids, so I assume there aren't any. If so then jump for joy! You can ditch your cheater and never, ever have to darken your horizon with her lying ass ever again. There are much better women out there, but before you go looking, you have to fix your own problems. Go to councelling, don't lie, you have major self esteem issues. Fix those, love yourself, then you'll have a better shot of finding a truly loving partner. The current one isn't, and will probably never be. Get your money back for the cruise if you can.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Jeff...I'm about as pro-reconciliation as it comes on these boards, so believe me, I don't say this lightly.

Get away from your "wife". Yeah...your "wife", cuz a real wife doesn't act the way yours is. She totally disrespected your marriage with her affair and then has the audacity to get you to believe that you acted inappropriately by exposing her. Ummm - hello...McFly?!?!!!

Dude, she's reading texts and her dating profile messages while you're in the same f'ng room. That's heinous! 

Here's what I see, and it's what a few have stated here: Your first, skinny wife left you for another man. Now, you second overweight wife is having an affair right in front of your face. Because you were so hurt by your first wife, you are afraid to leave your second. You don't want to be alone. It scares you. I understand that, however how can you wake up every morning and look yourself in the mirror and be okay with that?!

And you're going on a cruise with this woman...this "wife"?!

Ya know what? I say go on the cruise. Except, when you get to a nice port, get off the boat and get a hotel and stay there for a bit. You need to get in touch with you. You need to be okay with you. Cuz right now, you don't think you can live alone.

And you can. Quit selling yourself so f'ng short.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

ChangingMe said:


> Jeff, I am sorry you are here. It pains me to read your post. I am a former WW, and it is awful to hear what your wife if putting you through and what you are accepting.
> 
> You need to listen to the posters here. You need to address these things with your WW today. Not after Christmas, not after the cruise. Kasler has said it well -each day she is in contact with the OM, it is less she is connected with you. Sadly, based on her being on dating sites and still in contact with OM, it looks like she is not wanting to be married to you. But if you have any chance at all of possibly saving your marriage (if that is what you want), then you really do have to stand up for yourself and stop putting up with her cheating on you.
> 
> ...


I, too, am a fWW (and a BW). Jeff, the way your wife is treating you is NOT indicative of a true reconciliation. You deserve better. Don't let her browbeat you. You did the right thing, exposing to her family, and even to yours. If you actually STILL want to R with this woman, then you need to be firm... absolutely ZERO contact with OM, NONE. No social media, at least none where you have no access. She is not to delete ANYTHING. YOU need to be calling the shots, not her. SHE is the one who cheated, NOT YOU. She needs to see that you WILL NOT tolerate her nonsense. 

I'll be honest...when you said she asked you to text that you were almost home, I knew what was coming, before I read it. From now on, DO NOT give her that heads up. She doesn't deserve it. Even worse, you now know she is using that time to contact the OM. She is COMPLETELY disrespecting you. The only way for that to change is for you to MAKE it change! Seriously, don't accept her bullsh!t. Tell her that she is going to play by YOUR rules from now on, or she can leave. Don't give her any other options. YOU aren't the one who "deserves a second chance".... YOU did nothing wrong. And from where I'm sitting.... she doesn't deserve that second chance either... she has shown no remorse for her actions, even blatantly continuing them. 

Just...don't let her continue treating you this way. You deserve SOOOOO much better!


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## lionsguy22 (Dec 2, 2012)

bfree said:


> Ok, this is going to sound very rude but I don't really mean it as such.
> 
> jeff_r
> 
> ...


+1
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Jeff, reading your thread is like watching a sick movie.
You need IC yesterday.
Man, if you could leave once, why not now.
And man, you REALLY need to be alone for a while. At least until you get over your codependency issues.

You don't need to be spending money on a trip that based on lies.

The way I see it is, she is just hanging around until she has the surgery, then she will be full bore forward with her affairs. 

The minute she mentioned being buff, you was supposed to come back with wanting the same, but look what you got. Dude, it don't even sound like you love this woman. It sound like you are just afraid to be alone.
Well hell, go live with your mom.

As for avoiding the conflict, tell her you are leaving. That it's not working out and you won't let some fat woman make a fool out of you. that you can find a hottie to do that.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

bfree said:


> Ok, this is going to sound very rude but I don't really mean it as such.
> 
> jeff_r
> 
> ...


I would like this post 50 times if I could.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

I appreciate all the comments. I really do...I need the 2x4s hitting me, so I can really see the reality of the situation.


Here are some things I can do & not do:

- I can't disconnect the internet or her phone, they are in her name. She is using her smartphone to do all that she is done & currently doing. Even at her work as a nurse she was doing it. So regardless of where she is, she is going to do what she wants to.

- We have a mortgage in both our names. After I left the home back in July (July 15th d-day), I talked to a lawyer about what my options were. Since both our names are on it, we are both liable for it. 
I have since talked to a realtor. They said that we would take a loss on selling the house....either now or later since the market won't improve much in the next few months. We are talking about $30-40K loss total.

At the time, she seemed ok with getting her own lawyer & proceeding with a divorce. She was cool & collective about it...no problems at all with it. 
I on the other hand was freaking out...it scared me. Those past feelings of going thru it with my 1st wife came back. 
I had left the house & lived in a hotel. I lost weight, I couldnt sleep....I did that for 6 weeks. It was hell on earth.
I moved back into the house on Aug 31. 
There is a reason I think she wanted me to move back in....she was having trouble paying the mortgage by herself.


It does bother me that she has said some very hurtful things about me to some of her friends & her mom. They just seem to talk to her in a very understanding way & take her side instantly.
This whole notion of "giving me another chance", really makes me angry. Another chance to do what? To not cheat, to not lie.....
Rather, they are referring to me not being as social as my WW wants me to be. That I am not outgoing or social as she is....
There are other things too.....that I don't jump when she asks me to, that my family is too involved in my well-being, I have had problems with eye contact, etc, etc.


I know......

She is a broken & resentful filled person. She is resentful about everything concerning me. She remembers all my faults....

Her bondaries are horrible.

I just can't believe this is the same person that I got to know over 8 years ago. I really loved that person.....

I thought at the time, here is someone that I can love & get away from the mess of my past relationship.

Know I now that she was not the person I thought she was....
She had been on dating websites for quite some time.....met guys on there...had sex with a few...
She had a few ONS.....a foursome with other nurses (another girl, her BF & another male nurse)...
It made me sick to learn this....I found this out during our "separation".



To be honest, I just don't know if our marriage can survive what has happened.
It makes me sad to even acknowledge it. There has been so much damage to it.
She continues to damage it now with what she is doing.

She has to wonder that what she is doing now is not helping us....
Or is she really doing this so she can see what is potentially out there?

Sorry for the rant..


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## lionsguy22 (Dec 2, 2012)

Lol ahh yes. I worked at a hospital. People were screwing everybody. Doctors doing housekeepers. Nurses screwing security guards etc
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> Jeff, reading your thread is like watching a sick movie.
> You need IC yesterday.
> Man, if you could leave once, why not now.
> And man, you REALLY need to be alone for a while. At least until you get over your codependency issues.
> ...



Yes I have come to realize that I do have codependency issues.
Self worth is something that I have struggled with for a long time.

I do love her....but I will admit that over the years, that love has diminished.
There have been so many tantrums, break downs & silent treatments from her. It didn't matter even if other people were around.

Yes, I do think she is hypocritical. She wants a buff guy, but she can't seem to work on herself.....even with the help of surgery & a lap band.

If she is waiting until after her surgery to leave....then she is more vile than I thought.

I do think her looking at the dating site messages, is a way of validation for her. She must have self esteem issues herself. I think she has always had them..before I met her.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Here's the thing Jeff...and it may come as a bit of a shock...

Happiness and money do not equate to squat. To hell with the house and any loss you may take. Put the house on the market and short sell the thing. In this economy the banks will take what they can get to avoid foreclosing - which makes the economy much worse.

Get away from your "wife" and do for you and you alone.

A foursome?!!! For the love of all that is holy...dude...GTF out!! 

Oh...and if you don't think I walk the walk - here's the truth in my situation: My wife banged the xOM in our home in the basement for a year and a half. I stopped making mortgage payments on this place in April. I hate this f'ng place that much now. A snowblower that was bought literally 3 houses down from his was sold for real cheap...I'll shovel this year. The beautifully hand made dining table her parents bought us for our wedding gift that's worth a couple grand is being sold on Craigslist for half of that cuz they sat at that table talking. I will never sit at that table again...even this past weekend for our daughter's birthday with her parents here, we ate dinner at our coffee table. When they foreclose on this place next year, we'll move to an apartment.

Money don't mean a f'ng thing. 

To hell with HER potentials out there. Go out and do for yourself.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

lionsguy22 said:


> Lol ahh yes. I worked at a hospital. People were screwing everybody. Doctors doing housekeepers. Nurses screwing security guards etc
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I did not know about what she did, until I read a conversation btwn her & a guy she met on the dating site.

She told this guy all of her sexual experience....boyfriends, ONS, dating site, foursome, oral sex, etc.

She complained that I could not get her sexually excited enough anymore...that we needed help (lube).

I was hurt to see her telling a stranger all this stuff.
She was bashing me like I was a criminal & a worthless person.
I felt like dirt after reading that.


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## lionsguy22 (Dec 2, 2012)

jeff_r said:


> I did not know about what she did, until I read a conversation btwn her & a guy she met on the dating site.
> 
> She told this guy all of her sexual experience....boyfriends, ONS, dating site, foursome, oral sex, etc.
> 
> ...


Sorry. I was just saying affairs are common in hospitals. And your not dirt! If anything she is that's some sick stuff 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

Look, her friend is not the problem. Your wife is. Simple as that. 

She is still looking through profiles because she wants the ego trip. She wants the validation to know that if you decide you just can't handle this anymore, she does have back up. 

The second you came back into that house, her profile should have come down and she should have been in full remorse mode. She isn't..to any of it. 

Time to lay it all out for her, go nuclear and tell her to shape up or f'ck off. 

This woman is taking you for a ride by keeping her options open. 

Don't let her take advantage of you another day. STOP biting your tongue and tell her you know she is still lying and cheating. 

Stop sitting on it. This is your life. Do something about it.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Here's the thing Jeff...and it may come as a bit of a shock...
> 
> Happiness and money do not equate to squat. To hell with the house and any loss you may take. Put the house on the market and short sell the thing. In this economy the banks will take what they can get to avoid foreclosing - which makes the economy much worse.
> 
> ...


Oh the money doesnt bother me. I have no connection to anything we have. I can easily get rid of the couch & bed that she used while she was doing all this.
I have no fear of losing the house either.
If I have to pay 20K, then I will....but so will she.....

Yes, she did this with some nurses she worked with when she had just entered into nursing. I always thought Shands hospital was a reputable place, but I suppose there are those that work there that are gross....


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

lisab0105 said:


> Look, her friend is not the problem. Your wife is. Simple as that.
> 
> She is still looking through profiles because she wants the ego trip. She wants the validation to know that if you decide you just can't handle this anymore, she does have back up.
> 
> ...


I haven't thought of it that way....

I guess I hate to admit that she thinks she has options....
That if I can't handle it, she can just start over so easily....

I'm just an option for her....if it doesnt work out, she can move on...wow, that's pretty low.

I can't believe that she thinks of me this way....someone who tried to have a child with her (IVF), someone she has known for 8 years, etc.....


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

jeff_r said:


> She told this guy all of her sexual experience....boyfriends, ONS, dating site, foursome, oral sex, etc. She complained that I could not get her sexually excited enough anymore...that we needed help (lube).


*She needed lube because you couldn't excite her? That's like saying a man needs Viagra because she doesn't excite him.*

Vagi-Dehydrate dysfunction _(my new word for the female version of erectile dysfunction)_, tell her to see her Dr, not her online boyfriend.

T


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

Yeah, there were some very hurtful things said about me....that she told the OM & to guys she met online....

Who knows what her family thinks of me.....
Her mom had the gall to say that I exposed her daughter in order to hurt them...(?)

What a bizarre and dysfunctional life my WW has.....on the outside she looks like she has it all together.
She has a good career & a well mannered family.

But on the inside, she has issues with body image & beauty. I do think that her accessing the dating site is a way of boosting her ego. It makes her feel good to see guys have an interest in her.
And I think she has issues with using sex as a way of getting that attention. She knows that these guys will respond a certain way if she makes certain sexual innuendo.



I feel sorry for her in a way...

I feel like I have failed her too...in that I didnt do what was needed to prevent all this.


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## ChangingMe (Oct 3, 2012)

jeff_r said:


> But on the inside, she has issues with body image & beauty. I do think that her accessing the dating site is a way of boosting her ego. It makes her feel good to see guys have an interest in her.
> And I think she has issues with using sex as a way of getting that attention. She knows that these guys will respond a certain way if she makes certain sexual innuendo.
> 
> I feel sorry for her in a way...
> ...


Jeff, PLEASE stop putting this blame on yourself and making excuses for her!

You know what? I have self-esteem issues too. I too love to have men tell me they find me attractive, it's shallow, but it makes me feel better about myself. It also really got me into trouble, and I have learned that I CANNOT seek outside attention in any form or fashion if I have any hope of holding on to my amazing husband. So once my A was discovered, I got my a$$ in counseling and began working on my issues and trying to figure out why I am so needy for attention. It's MY issue, and it can be worked on and fixed. And it doesn't get fixed by seeking out strangers to tell me I'm beautiful or have them try to have sex with me. 

You don't need to feel sorry for her right now, you need to get mad, pissed off, furious. Sure, she has issues -we ALL do! But her issues do not give her a right to continue to treat you like this! As for feeling like you failed her, that is also not true. She is making her choices day after day. It was not your job to prevent this, just like it was not my husband's job to stop me from having an A. That is all on me -I alone am accountable for the choices I made. 

You can't own this. All you can own is your willingness to sit by and continue to accept her cheating. So own that, and get out and work on yourself. 

Somehow, I think I am more mad about your situation than you are, and that is wrong. Get mad!!! It will help you take action.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Look, you can sit at the computer and rant while feeling sorry for yourself, or you can do something about it.
You KNOW what she is still doing, so how is that helping you ???
Get the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy".
Read it, live it. Then get "Not Just Friends". That one will help you in your next relationship.
And YES, you will have others. But this time you will be more secure in the things you want and need in relationships.

Right now all you are doing is torturing yourself. STOP IT NOW !!!!
It' time to man up and be the man your mom raised you to be.
It's OK for he family to be in your lives, but not your mom. That tells you she thinks if she can separate you for mom, she can do whatever she wants, cause you won't have mom as a sounding board.
this is a toxic marriage man, free yourself. Just look at how you are already feeling sorry for her. An educated mature woman who is cheating on you have you feeling sorry for her. 
You tried, now it me time.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

jeff_r said:


> To be honest, *I just don't know if our marriage can survive what has happened.*
> It makes me sad to even acknowledge it. There has been so much damage to it.
> She continues to damage it now with what she is doing.
> 
> ...


Honest question - do you actually have a "marriage"? Not legally, but the type that an outside observer would say might be something they would call a marriage?

Because based on your description of her behavior, I don't see that you have one.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

ChangingMe, OldWolf57, lisab0105, etc

I appreciate what you all have said....

It makes a lot of sense....

And if one of my friends or family members were going thru the same thing with their spouse....I'd be telling them exactly what you all have said.


I'm a hypocrite I suppose. 
I go thru a mad phase ....then thru a sad phase.

I get mad at her for acting a way that seems pleasant but at the same time she is still up to no good.

I also get sad....sad at the fact that my relationship will never be the same with her.....if it does in fact survive at all.

I see pictures of her when she was in HS....and I think...wow what a pretty girl. (she looked like a young jennifer connelly)
I get sad at the fact that I won't be with that girl anymore, even though I met her when she was 29.

Anyway, I just got the books "No More Mister Nice Guy" & have had "Not Just Friends" since my last marriage fell apart.

Yeah I hate the fact that she doesn't like my mom involved in my life. My mom would do just about anything for my wife....give her money, be there for moral support, etc. She doesn't know it, but my mom has taken my wifes side when I used to rant about her.

My wife sees my relationship with my mother as me being wimpy, I guess. I have asked my folks for help in the past with car problems, etc. My wife wants me to be independent of them.

But yet, she can confide in with her own mother about her indiscretions & rants about me......


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

ChangingMe said:


> Jeff, PLEASE stop putting this blame on yourself and making excuses for her!
> 
> You know what? I have self-esteem issues too. I too love to have men tell me they find me attractive, it's shallow, but it makes me feel better about myself. It also really got me into trouble, and I have learned that I CANNOT seek outside attention in any form or fashion if I have any hope of holding on to my amazing husband. So once my A was discovered, I got my a$$ in counseling and began working on my issues and trying to figure out why I am so needy for attention. It's MY issue, and it can be worked on and fixed. And it doesn't get fixed by seeking out strangers to tell me I'm beautiful or have them try to have sex with me.
> 
> ...


What form of therapy have you gone thru?
I am just curious about what is discussed in counseling for this.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

Jeff, I am at a complete loss as to why you stay in this relationship and endure this kind of mental and emotional abuse on a daily basis. You seem like a sincere and nice guy, and you deserve better. BUT YOU HAVE TO START BELIEVING THAT YOU DESERVE BETTER !! This woman does not, and will NEVER, respect you. Please do yourself a favor and get out and move on.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

barbados said:


> Jeff, I am at a complete loss as to why you stay in this relationship and endure this kind of mental and emotional abuse on a daily basis. You seem like a sincere and nice guy, and you deserve better. BUT YOU HAVE TO START BELIEVING THAT YOU DESERVE BETTER !! This woman does not, and will NEVER, respect you. Please do yourself a favor and get out and move on.


I know.....

Wife's Cyber Cheating - Pastebin.com

I took out the names. It is in reverse order.


I have to admit, I feel guilty for allowing it to get as far as it did. 
She does have a volatile and emotionally charged personality....
She demands empathy from others, but really doesnt have it for anyone else.

This past weekend was rough...one minute it seemed good (eating & watching movies) the next minute, its emotional & very uncomfortable.

I've been there for her emotionally when she found out she had to have a hysterectomy.....she cried & cried. 
She knew that it meant she could no longer have her own children.

But why continue looking on the dating site.....

And...
I took care of her after her D&C.....but even before going for it, she changed her cell phone lock. I knew she did this b/c she knew I would have her phone while she was in the OR.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Go back to your title of this thread, Jeff. You are living with real female toxicity with the MIL and friends. Your W is being encouraged daily to think of you as expendable & definitely to disrespect you.

People tell you to man up & that will help, no doubt, but I think you just need to get away from the toxic air you've been breathing and take a clean look at both what your W is really like and what you deserve as a human being.

They all convince one another that you don't deserve to be respected & they've got you basically convinced as well. Get some distance and call BS on them.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> Go back to your title of this thread, Jeff. You are living with real female toxicity with the MIL and friends. Your W is being encouraged daily to think of you as expendable & definitely to disrespect you.
> 
> People tell you to man up & that will help, no doubt, but I think you just need to get away from the toxic air you've been breathing and take a clean look at both what your W is really like and what you deserve as a human being.
> 
> They all convince one another that you don't deserve to be respected & they've got you basically convinced as well. Get some distance and call BS on them.


Yes you are right....MIL is an horrible person

I exposed to my MIL first by emailing her a copy of the conversations......

She must have then called WW & they talked. The MIL then emailed me back & told me that my WW & this OM have nothing to do with the problems btwn us. 
That we were just not meant for each other.

I have seen the MIL & FIL since all this happened. They came up to our house the weekend before Thanksgiving.

They acted very nice to me.....like old times....as if nothing has happened. I believe they are in denial.

But her mom is toxic, IMO. She told my WW that the OM seemed like a good guy....and that she "should save those kind of words when you see him in person".

This coming from a 70 year old woman......that I have know for 8 years.

And within a week, she throws me under the bus.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

jeff_r said:


> Yes you are right....MIL is an horrible person
> 
> I exposed to my MIL first by emailing her a copy of the conversations......
> 
> ...


And after you divorce her daughter and she is free to be with any OM, your Ex-Mil will have her daughter and all of her 'quirks' to herself.

Your revenge on the toxic MIL will be to live well and find a decent woman.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Your MIL is 70, but age doesn't necessarily confer humanity on someone.

You are in a state of disbelief over your W's and her mother's/friends' behavior. The fact that it's hard to believe and process means that you have basic decency in you. That will serve you well in your life going forward.

For now, though, you have to be cold-blooded and understand that they don't have the decency in them. They are able to turn their humanity off when it comes to you. You need to save yourself. They won't muster enough of a collective conscience to act honorably.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> Your MIL is 70, but age doesn't necessarily confer humanity on someone.
> 
> You are in a state of disbelief over your W's and her mother's/friends' behavior. The fact that it's hard to believe and process means that you have basic decency in you. That will serve you well in your life going forward.
> 
> For now, though, you have to be cold-blooded and understand that they don't have the decency in them. They are able to turn their humanity off when it comes to you. You need to save yourself. They won't muster enough of a collective conscience to act honorably.



Wow....I've never had anyone say this to me before.....I appreciate that.. I really do.

Yes it has been hard to process & understand.....

Decency....


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You sound like SUCH a nice guy. And your wife is a total b!tch.

PLEASE get away from her. You say you hate the thought of being alone? Why? 

My advice is to work on that, because it's only once you realize how to be happy on your own that you can be truly happy with someone else. How can anyone be happy knowing that they need someone else to MAKE them happy?? Only when you are able to choose to be with someone because you want to be, and not because you need to be, can you truly be happy.


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## ChangingMe (Oct 3, 2012)

jeff_r said:


> What form of therapy have you gone thru?
> I am just curious about what is discussed in counseling for this.


I am in individual counseling with a marriage & family therapist. As far as counseling style, she uses a lot of cognitive-behavioral interventions, but comes from a systems orientation.

As for issues addressed in counseling: my selfishness, my desire/need for attention/love languages of me and my H/boundary work/some background work on issues in my childhood that affect where my self-esteem is today. We've worked a lot with rational-emotive therapy as well. 

My H and I are in marriage counseling as well with a different therapist. We have only been to about 4 sessions though; we go back this Friday. I had IC this morning.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

jeff_r said:


> Decency....


Yes. Basic human decency. The very idea is powerful and empowering when the people around you have so little of it. You're not weak because you have honor and dignity. Not at all.

I know it's very hard to call it quits, but I can't see how you can love someone who can act like your W. That can't possibly be what love is. I'm sorry. It just can't be.

You seem like a nice man who deserves much more. There really are decent, honest women out here in the wider world. Your life isn't over till it's over & you have a lot of time left. Why would you want to fight to live it with someone who treats you with such disdain?


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

jeff_r said:


> Wow....I've never had anyone say this to me before.....I appreciate that.. I really do.
> 
> Yes it has been hard to process & understand.....
> 
> Decency....


It's difficult for those who are good and decent people to understand the machinations of those who are not.

You just can't wrap your head around your MIL's thoughts and motivations.
Because they are alien to you.

Be content with doing the right thing for yourself and your future happiness.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Malaise said:


> It's difficult for those who are good and decent people to understand the machinations of those who are not.
> 
> You just can't wrap your head around your MIL's thoughts and motivations.
> Because they are alien to you.
> ...


Your so called wife picked up her (utter lack of) character at home. It is normal to her, she would not have the problems your are having, because she doesn't have the empathy you have for her. Where is your empathy for yourself?


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> You sound like SUCH a nice guy. And your wife is a total b!tch.
> 
> PLEASE get away from her. You say you hate the thought of being alone? Why?
> 
> My advice is to work on that, because it's only once you realize how to be happy on your own that you can be truly happy with someone else. How can anyone be happy knowing that they need someone else to MAKE them happy?? Only when you are able to choose to be with someone because you want to be, and not because you need to be, can you truly be happy.



Well I hope I am a nice guy....in a good way.

I did skim thru the book "No More Mr Nice Guy".....I fit the descriptions down to a T.

Yeah, well after my first marriage went downhill....I had no control over it.....
I begged her to let us work on things....but she was done.
She didnt waste time. The day after she told me she wanted a separation, she was at the OP's house eating dinner with his family. oh well, that is another story.

So, I guess I have had abandonment issues since then. I felt so awful after going thru that. 

I had no control over anything...all I could do was accept what she wanted to do.

Which took a long time for me to do.

--------

Then I met my current wife. I thought, here is a good person who is completely different from my previous wife. She comes from an educated family, the are pleasant, etc, etc.

BUT to be honest, she would say things that gave me clues about herself. She was really open about sexual stuff....could easily talk about things that I thought were embarassing to say.
She didn't use code words or hints....just porno talk.....like it was so easy to discuss.

I've never even heard guys talk this open about that kind of thing...much less a woman.

I was shocked to hear a woman talk that way. She wasnt a bar hopper, at least I got the impression that she wasn't. Now that I know some of her past, I see how it was easy for her.

Anyway, it was a red flag for me...but I didnt want to be lonely. And at the time I thought she was the best person I could find. All the other women I had met had qualities that just didnt work for me. 
Now I see that I had fooled myself into thinking all this. She was the wild child in a rather quiet family. Her parents had problems with her.....she moved out at 20, got her own place in the same town, etc.

I fell in love with someone who I thought would be a good wife & mother.


----------



## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

*jeff:* How long were you "between wives"?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

PLEASE do more than just skim NMMNG. 

You need to find your self worth. Are you in IC?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

After reading about what she has and is doing to you I can not believe you are still here trying to understand what she did and seem to think it has something to do with you.

She is a rabid dog. Your "marriage" is a joke to her. It is not your fault and did nothing to contribute to this. MIL is a nightmare and it does not matter why and how - she just is.

Stop looking for answers and reasons. Stop looking for closure of some one else to blame for your wife's behavior.

JUST DIVORCE HER AND GET OUT. Nothing is going to get better. She will not change. There is no hope.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

old timer said:


> *jeff:* How long were you "between wives"?


1st wife got married in June 1999.
I got the separation speech in Jan 2004. D finalized in May 2004.

Met current wife in Sept 2004. Got married in April 2006.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> PLEASE do more than just skim NMMNG.
> 
> You need to find your self worth. Are you in IC?



I plan on reading it fully.

No I am not in IC....I have though gone to a two different ones.

I went to a Christian counselor.....she was really nice.
I told her the story as I knew it then (about 3 weeks after D-day)
She told me that I probably shouldnt have exposed like I did....that it would just drive my WW more to the OM. 
Which from looking at the phone records during our "separation", she most certainly did.

The counselor did say that maybe I could help her....help get help. That it sounded as if my wife had some sort of sexual addiction. I'm not really sure about that though.
Based on reading the conversations btwn my WW & the OM....he had to gradually pull her into the sex talk. 

The counselor also said that we seem to have a sham of a marriage. I want her to change in order to be one way & she wants me to change as well. That how my wife manifested her affair....secrecy, deception, etc....that our relationship is over. That my wife needs help & therapy to get at the core of why she thought it was reasonable to do what she did.

The other counselor met the two of us on my first day back home. I asked her to come to the session if she wanted to. She showed up to my surprise.
During that visit, he told us to not talk to anyone outside the marriage. He asked us to come back for individual sessions, of which I did twice.

During my visits, I told him that she had emailed the OM using an alternate email address. That she had broken his agreement.

He has since called me twice asking if my WW had considered coming to see him. I guess she feels that she is fine & doesnt need counseling.

You see, after our one year anniversary, we went to a marriage counselor for different issues. I wanted my wife to lose weight...and she wanted me to be more sociable.
Yeah, those were our issues at the time.

Now, I feel that she thinks that since we went to counseling 5 years ago, why go again.....we didnt get anything changed.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

jeff_r said:


> Based on reading the conversations btwn my WW & the OM....he had to gradually pull her into the sex talk.


Some women thrive on being "pulled" into this type of thing. They want to be seduced.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Listen, YOU need to take the reigns here. YOU. Quit letting her call the shots!!! She doesn't want to go to counseling? Too effing bad. Either she goes and fixes whatever the hell is wrong with her, or she is OUTTA there.

GET MAD at her. Can't you see what she's doing to you??

As for yourself, it sounds to me like all you talked about in counseling was your marriage. WRONG. You need to talk about YOU. Apart from her, or anyone else for that matter. Go in, tell the counselor that you want to work on YOU, not your marriage, and that you want to learn to be happy on your own. Write that down if you have to. Just DO it. And make sure the counselor sticks to that plan. That plan and that plan only.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> Listen, YOU need to take the reigns here. YOU. Quit letting her call the shots!!! She doesn't want to go to counseling? Too effing bad. Either she goes and fixes whatever the hell is wrong with her, or she is OUTTA there.
> 
> GET MAD at her. Can't you see what she's doing to you??
> 
> As for yourself, it sounds to me like all you talked about in counseling was your marriage. WRONG. You need to talk about YOU. Apart from her, or anyone else for that matter. Go in, tell the counselor that you want to work on YOU, not your marriage, and that you want to learn to be happy on your own. Write that down if you have to. Just DO it. And make sure the counselor sticks to that plan. That plan and that plan only.


:iagree:

Because just hitting the like button is not enough. 

Look Jeff. For whatever reason, you seem to base your worth on being in a relationship. You also seem to feel that you don't deserve to be respected. You are willing to put up with awful behavior, and then blame yourself. 

You need to fix that. You are a good person who deserves to be treated well. Nothing will be fixed until you fix yourself. No More Mr. Nice Guy is a great start. Work that process. Use a counselor. Get your selfright. Until you do that, nothing else will work for you.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

jeff_r said:


> Yeah, I guess she is.
> Her looking on her dating site profile is cheating to me.
> It makes me feel awful...like she is fishing for potentials.
> 
> ...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jeff_r said:


> Yes you are right....MIL is an horrible person
> 
> I exposed to my MIL first by emailing her a copy of the conversations......
> 
> ...


You know, jeff, I can't possibly think of a reason why your wife is like she is. :scratchhead:

Can you? Can you see *now*? 

It is, as the old saying says, monkey see, monkey do. Your wife took lessons in bad behaviour from a pro at the top of her game.

I wonder what merry dances she -exmiltb- led her poor husband?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Jeff,

Your wife is deeply selfish and abusive of you.

I'm guessing that you clean, cook,shop, laundry, etc.

She barks orders and threatens you when you don't do things likes he wants,

Your wife has no remorse for betraying you. None. Not an ounce. She does however continue to be offended by the idea that you invaded her privacy and caught her cheating.

You are in a false R with a woman who as far as I can tell neither respects nor loves you. She resents you. She seems to hate you and blame you for all her mistakes and frustrations in life.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Jeff,
> 
> Your wife is deeply selfish and abusive of you.
> 
> ...


It's what I call NHS "Nearest Human Syndrome" the nearest human (usually poor, blameless spouse) who gets the blame for everything.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Jeff,
> 
> Your wife is deeply selfish and abusive of you.
> 
> ...



Yes she is very selfish (she has admitted it, not necessarily in this case though).

She has been abusive too. She uses intimidation to get what she wants....by using guilt & silent treatments.


She does most of the cooking & laundry. But she is a terrible house keeper. As far as house keeping, she wants someone to be the leader (me) but doesn't like being told what to do.

Yes, if I asked her for her phone...I bet she would hesitate.

This morning, I did have access to her phone...I know the pass code. 

I saw where she has been playing a word game (zynga) with the OM. Yesterday, it was her move.

So she is still in contact with this loser. And he is a loser....any person that would try to have a relationship with a married person, is a loser. 
But on the other hand, who knows what she has told him about us at the beginning of their contact. She could have told him that she was planning on leaving me, etc, etc.

Well, I plan on confronting her soon. I am also going to tell some of her friends.....a more detailed description of what went & is currently going on.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

jeff_r said:


> Well, I plan on confronting her soon. I am also going to tell some of her friends.....a more detailed description of what went & is currently going on.


To what end? What do you want at this point?


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

jeff_r said:


> Yeah, I guess she is.
> Her looking on her dating site profile is cheating to me.
> It makes me feel awful...like she is fishing for potentials.
> 
> ...


At this point - YOU are toxic. Why would you be back together and working on a marriage when she clearly isn't doing the same? 

The dating profile should be deleted. She should call the OM in front of you and break it off.

She should call your parents and hers and apologize for what she's done to the families. 

She should be giving you full access to her phone and text records, email accounts, website profiles, etc.

She should be the one doing all the work, not you.

She's got a pretty good deal, cheat on the husband and get him to apologize and jump through hoops.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Jeff, It's toast. 

Get some counseling and get to know _you_ a little better. Thats the relationship you should be trying to reconcile.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

Originally Posted by jeff_r View Post

Well, I plan on confronting her soon. I am also going to tell some of her friends.....a more detailed description of what went & is currently going on.



SadandAngry said:


> To what end? What do you want at this point?



Well my intent is to confront her with an ultimatum. 
I don't want to use all my cards at once.

Part of me wants to tell her friends, so they know the real me, rather than what maybe she has told them.

To be honest, I don't know what I want.....

Part of me thinks if I confront her, she will just go underground for the next one.

----------------------

Well...you see, we had something happen 5 years ago where this guy would text out of the blue. I guess as a way of keeping contact with her.

The guy must have met her on the same dating site she now has the profile on. No idea when she knew him....must have been a year or so before I met her.

One day she left her phone at home & I checked it. It was the old style cell phone, not the elaborate smart phones we have now. I saw a message to her that said "hey sexy". There were others, just basic chit chat back in forth.
I couldnt believe it. I was jealous.
I confronted her about it. She said it wouldnt happen anymore.

Then 3 months later she was doing it again.

This time she was contacting 2 guys at the same time. One was this same 'hey sexy' guy. The other was some guy she knew as a nursing student.

She was texting & calling them after she got off work....on her drive home. 
Sometimes also talking/emailing while I was away visiting family.
So obviously she knew I would have a problem with what she was doing...

This went on for 3 months before I caught her.
We were going to marriage counseling at the time...for issues such as her weight & my social anxiety. 

At a marriage counseling session, I confronted her & asked her not to contact other men. She understood. Said that she was getting advice on our marriage from the "male perspective'.

Jump 4 years later, recently I got access to her phone & saw that she has the 'hey sexy' guy's cell number under one of her girl friends names.

I went back & looked at old phone records to this time last year.
They were texting back & forth back then. It would last about a day & then pick up the following month. The contact would drop off for a while & then she might get a text message from him & they might exchange a few texts back & forth.

So, she has never stopped being in contact with this 'hey sexy' guy. I know who the guy is now. Where he works, etc. Looks like a younger andrew zimmern.


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## ChangingMe (Oct 3, 2012)

jeff_r said:


> Part of me thinks if I confront her, she will just go underground for the next one.


So this is you saying that you will stick around for the next one. I'm sad for you Jeff. Your wife is having affair after affair and rubbing it in your face, and you are accepting it. Her behavior has never stopped or changed since you confronted her several years ago. The original (maybe) OM is still in the picture, and many others have come and gone through the years, with you confronting, telling her you are hurt, but you staying by her side as she continues to do this. 

I'm very sad for you. You deserve much better. This is not how a marriage has to be.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

You may want reconciliation but she clearly doesn't care. 

You can't fix her defects. All you can do is get yourself out of that environment, work on fixing you and move on. 

Keep in mind the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. You want to 'nice' her in to repairing this but it will not work that way this time any more than last time.

Why do you feel that you don't deserve to be happy and have a wife who loves and respects you?


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

*Jeff:**"man-up"*, dude.

If you cannot live w/o the approval of someone else - *ANYONE ELSE* - the problem is within *YOU*. You are guilty of "stinkin thinkin" about yourself.

*Jeff *- IMHO - you should read:

Alpha Game: The socio-sexual hierarchy

Change your thinking - and you can change yourself.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Jeff,

So now you know she's been lying to you for your entire marriage and carrying on with other guys.

Seriously, you need to accept that this is person she has chosen to be and that she wants to be.

You keep approaching it as an aberration that she agrees needs fixing. She doesn't see it like that, she sees you as the one with the problem, she's very happy cake eating,


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Jeff please read this entire thread, from your first post to this one, then do it again, then tell me what you want. Really want.


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## ItsGonnabeAlright (Nov 19, 2012)

This is ridiculousness at its best. Nothing has changed..she's still making demands....and all she seems to care about is her 'exposure' to her 'loved ones' and how she is perceived by them. Why the hell doesn't she care how she is perceived by YOU. I mean, yah, it's obvious she's a demanding cheater, she's manipulative and oblivious but other than that, why is she more concerned about her image, rather than how you guys are perceived as a couple? 
If I were you, I'd leave, and If I had more info, I'd expose her some more. Why? Because it's all she cares about. 
For example, some people only care about their money, so if you want to 'concern' them, you mess with that, and then they care. Not about you, per se, she'll never truly care about you. Her dating site is still up, geeeeeeeez. If that doesn't say FU, I don't know what does.


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## Madman1 (Oct 24, 2012)

Would you do your kids this way?
"Now johnny I told you not to set the curtains on fire any more, ok?"

Do you think she laughs at you with these other men, calls you a djckless wonder or somthing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

Jeff, this is what you need to do.

Go home tonight.
Tell her you know she is talking to the OM.
Tell her you know she is still on the dating site.
Tell her that if she thinks that she will have it so great being single she should think again. No one wants her for anything other than sex. And when she is 70 years old she will have no one left because it was all about sex.
Then tell her you don't give 2 sh!ts about what she is doing and to go ahead and keep at it.

*And this next one is the most important, not the words but follow through with the action:
Tell her she can sit at home talking to the OM while you go by yourself on the cruise!*

And seriously, go on the cruise...ALONE! You are afraid of being alone. You need to be away from her and you need to go put yourself in a situation that you wouldn't normally do alone. See how relaxing it is. How refreshing it is and how easy it is to meet new people and have fun with your life. I used to be afraid to do things by myself. Then I decided one day to go to Europe, alone. I bought a ticket, got on a 10 hour plane ride and traveled by myself. It was one of the greatest things I've ever done and opened my eyes to a lot about who I am and what I'm capable of.

Screw the cheating part, your wife just sounds atrocious in every way shape and form. Bleh, get away from that!


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Soifon said:


> And seriously, go on the cruise...ALONE! You are afraid of being alone. You need to be away from her and you need to go put yourself in a situation that you wouldn't normally do alone. See how relaxing it is. How refreshing it is and how easy it is to meet new people and have fun with your life. I used to be afraid to do things by myself. Then I decided one day to go to Europe, alone. I bought a ticket, got on a 10 hour plane ride and traveled by myself. It was one of the greatest things I've ever done and opened my eyes to a lot about who I am and what I'm capable of.


I agree w/ *Soifon*. 

But this will require Jeff to show some cajones.


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## Laurelindoren (Dec 3, 2012)

My condolences. 

I went threw a similar situation about 4 months ago. The smart phones make it really hard. My husband would cheat on me in front of me. 

None of my husbands friends cared that he cheated on me even when he admitted it to them. One of his friends, whom I thought was a mutual friend, didn't believe me when I called him and told him that my husband had cheated on me and I needed help retrieving my things. He called me a liar. My husband ended up calling him and telling him that he had in fact had an affair. Once the affair had been affirmed by my husband he decided that my husband just had a slip of the mind and the affair was not his fault. 

The same friend tries to get my husband to divorce me and tells people I'm abusive whenever he finds out that sometimes I share how the affair is still effecting me with my husband. This friend also happens to be a diagnosed sociopath.

I firmly believe that our relationship will not be healthy until he is gone. Friends that enable bad behavior are not friends. And they tend to be poisonous to the relationship because they can never look at the relationship from a clear perspective. In their mind their friend is always correct and the spouse is always wrong. 

I believe that your wife's friend shares a similar distorted view on your relationship. Letting your wife get away with infidelity is, in my opinion, is a red flag that she could quite possibly ruin your relationship and in all honesty she's probably not making your wife's life better in the long run. 

Now if only there was a good way to get rid of the toxic friend. A lot of people suggest moving, but I know for many people, myself included, is not an option. If you tell your spouse not to see that friend they may resent you for it, and you could be playing right into the friends hands. The only good option is for the person with the poisonous friend to see that the poisonous friend is in fact poisonous. In my case that's not likely, and I would guess it would be the same in most cases.

To be honest though your wife is the one who should be making an effort to improve your marriage. She screwed up now she needs to fix things, and if she really wants to she will. If she doesn't want to she's not worth a second of your time.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

I appreciate everyone. I really do. You've really made some revelations that I havent thought about.

I may not have pure proof, but do think she is still in contact with this OM. 

I've been looking at our phone records, and I think I notice a pattern.
She isn't talking to this OM on the phone nor sending any texts. I can see all this.

But I see a pattern in the web data usage:

Just about every Wed & Thurs (her work days) mornings I see on on the phone records, web data usage......phone - internet/media net sent. 

Its always between 6:30 & 7 am. Its always 2-3 entries during this time.

She leaves the house at 6:30 am & starts her nursing shift at 7 am. 

This morning was no different. Two entries...6:36 & 6:49

I've gone back and looked at the phone records, this go back to the beginning of November.

But on Tuesday, Friday & the weekends, there isn't any web data usage at those morning times. Those are her off work days.
And I don't leave fro work until 7:30 or so.

Just to compare, I looked at the records in March till May. 
No consistent pattern of web date usage during this time frame.

So I am thinking, she is up to something peculiar & odd. Its just too much of a coincidence to have web usage at the same times every Wed/Thurs for the past month or so.

Maybe I am being paranoid.

I'd like to have a keylogger for the phone, but I am unaware of any for an android.

Something to show at least what apps are being used & the times used.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Why? What is it that you cannot see that every other person that reads this thread can see plain as day? Why can't you admit that your wife is a serial cheater? Why do you think you should accept the bad behaviour now and in the future? What makes you think anything at all is going to change?


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Jeff - is it easier for you to focus on watching/waiting than to focus on what you want to do right now?

She's just going to keep finding new ways to hide her activities because you're allowing it to continue.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

SadandAngry 

Why? What is it that you cannot see that every other person that reads this thread can see plain as day? Why can't you admit that your wife is a serial cheater? Why do you think you should accept the bad behaviour now and in the future? What makes you think anything at all is going to change? 




TCSRedhead said:


> Jeff - is it easier for you to focus on watching/waiting than to focus on what you want to do right now?
> 
> She's just going to keep finding new ways to hide her activities because you're allowing it to continue.




You're both right.....

My oh my......what have I become......why have I let someone do this to me.

A guy I work with asked me about the cruise, since he goes on cruises several times a year.
I told him the whole story.....
He was puzzled & said that she seems like she needs help or some sort of therapy. That (sane) people just don't schedule a cruise & act like everything is alright...when there is that much baggage.

But I guess she has worked this out in her mind.
She told me that I was justified in being upset, etc. But she wanted attention & that I wasn't going to change my ways.
She knew it was a fantasy.....
that this guy was way more into her than she was into him.

That she wanted to get this out of her system so she could move on (meaning leaving me).


The dating site stuff is another thing all on its own....
(I knew how to access to her activity)

She was talking to these guys online (via yahoo messenger) & at the same time talking to the OM via text/phone calls.

She was basically playing everyone in her so called 'fantasy'....
All these guys & the OM wanting her....must have made her feel special & sexy....
She was using them for her own benefit...to make her feel better about herself.

She started off with basic chit chat with the dating site guys.
Then sometimes it would progress into more...cyber sex, exchanging photos...

She was engaging in cyber sex not only with the OM but also the guys from the dating site. She wanted to see more photos of the guys, since she had some on her dating profile.

The OM sent her photos of his privates. They used skype to talk to each other. They masturbated together...or at least she did. 

One guy convinced her to send photos of her privates. 
She sent close up pics....with toys, her fingers, while she masturbated, etc. 

She didnt know if these guys were the same people in their profile or not. I think she got played a few times.


Anyway, when one takes all that she has done:

- Emotional online affair with OM
- calling / texting OM for 3 months
- getting her mom to side with her
- Joining a dating site
- engaging in cybersex with strangers on dating site
- sending pics of her privates to strangers
- calling OM since I have been home 
- accessing dating site since I have been home
- playing online game with OM
- possible contact with OM

With all this....its just a big pile of crap

I really think she has histrionic personality disorder

Whatever it is, she needs help & therapy



Tomorrow, we will go visit her parents....
My WW wants her mom to hem her jeans that she will wear on the cruise....

I will be Daniel in the Lions Den.

-------------
I appreciate everyone boosting me up. I really do.

My family has been so supportive through out this as well.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Wait.

You're STILL doing on the cruise?!!!

Dude! Read what ya just wrote. I mean, the whole part about all the different guys she was chatting up. Here's the deal and I'm gonna sound like a real pr-ck. Your fat wife just wants to feel better about herself. It's all she can do. She's probably told the internet guys she's 130 pounds with 36C boobs.

Get the F outta there, man! For the love of all that is holy! Get the F out!


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Don't take this cruise with her - why do that to yourself? Go by yourself or with a buddy. Cancel and use the money for some new clothes, gym membership and trainer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Wait.
> 
> You're STILL doing on the cruise?!!!
> 
> ...



Actually the dating site is for bigger women....
Curvydates..com

They knew what she looked like....She took pics of herself in nighties, etc

Yeah, its all about her....
This cruise is all about her having a good time.

She mentioned that it could be for us to rekindle our romance.

---------

She mentioned last weekend that she was scared that the reason I originally exposed to her folks, brother & friends, was to be vindictive. 

She brought up the fact that after my first wife left me to be with another guy, that I exposed what she did to her work place as a way of getting back at her. Which I did.....


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## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

I wish you the best my friend. Personally I would rather flush $2,000.00 down a toilet in front of her rather than take her on a romantic cruise after what she's done to you.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Um, what she's failing to see is that there would be nothing to expose if she had been a faithful wife. Do not give this woman any more of your time, money or attention. This cruise is for her? Cancel it - what is there to rekindle while she's still behaving this way?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

So, man...what is YOUR plan for this lovely cruise? Are you gonna get off at the first port and stay for a month or so? Wouldn't be a bad idea given your situation. Just make sure to empty the bank account and bring cash with you.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

You know, I'm seriously thinking of un-subscribing to this thread. Jeff seems to be oblivious to what is being said.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

If you go on this cruise with such an unremorseful cheater.

Theres just nothing to say. This level of cuckoldry is near unprecedented.

I'd say man up, but you've heard it and ignored it at least 50 times already.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

jeff_r said:


> Actually the dating site is for bigger women....
> Curvydates..com
> 
> They knew what she looked like....She took pics of herself in nighties, etc
> ...


These two things.

The one in bold is true.

The one in red is her telling a lie so she can do the one in bold.


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## ItsGonnabeAlright (Nov 19, 2012)

jeff_r said:


> I may not have pure proof, but do think she is still in contact with this OM.


There are many things we sometimes don't have proof of, but still know are true or false. For example, when I saw the hotel charge on my husband's card, and I searched his phone and saw a call to the escort service, and then checked the bank and saw a withdrawal....yes, it may sound like I am crazy, but just because I was not in the same room, does not mean that I do not have enough evidence to put 2+2 together. Or in his case, 1+1. Cuz I was not there. We must trust our guts sometimes, we obviously can't trust our spouses.


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## ChangingMe (Oct 3, 2012)

I think this will probably be my last post to you. My final question, and I really don't mean this in a snarky way, is what is your point in posting on here? 

You clearly seem to have no intention of leaving your wife or holding her accountable for her affairs. You have accepted them for years, and by choosing to go on the cruise/spin the holidays with her/see her through her surgery and on and on and on, you are continuing to do so. 

So why bother to post on this site? Again, not trying to be rude, but trying to understand where you are coming from.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Jeff, DO NOT GO ON THE CRUISE.

Let me lay it out for you.
She is going to JUST HAPPEN to meet some old friend guy she know, and she is going to **** you. Your whole demeanor since exposure has been to accept her doing whatever she wants, as long as she don't leave you. Is this the future you want?? Married to a woman dating other men??


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Jeff, what is it about yourself that you don't like so much that you will go to any lengths to keep from being alone ????


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Time for me to bow out as OP is simply a Junior Butler to his wife. At least rereading this whole thing has me wondering...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Jeff - any response?


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## My_2nd_Rodeo (Nov 20, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> Get the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy".
> Read it, live it.


Thanks for the book recommendation - I have the Nice Guy complex.

Looks good, just ordered off Amazon. :smthumbup:


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## My_2nd_Rodeo (Nov 20, 2012)

Jeff_r

I have a few women friends that are "husky" like your wife.

For some reason, once they hit the dating sites - they were fish in a barrel. Since they also had such poor self-esteem, they went unprotected with all these guys. 

Needless to say, one of them got herpes. I don't know about the others - not like I ask.

Oh, and these were "moral" churchwomen. Why do I mention this, because they strived to be moral in many aspects in their lives. Yet, they did all this! 

Your wife isn't even trying to be the least bit moral, so I shudder to think her lack of inhibitions.

Move past her. 

oh and-

*Jerry Springer *:allhail:* ----------> Were she belongs.* :crazy:


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## My_2nd_Rodeo (Nov 20, 2012)

ChangingMe said:


> So why bother to post on this site? Again, not trying to be rude, but trying to understand where you are coming from.


Some of us need the nudge to leave, the confidence to do so, validation of our feelings, or maybe just to vent. TAM has been great for that... just the answer for me ChangingMe - no rudeness intended.


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## ChangingMe (Oct 3, 2012)

My_2nd_Rodeo said:


> Some of us need the nudge to leave, the confidence to do so, validation of our feelings, or maybe just to vent. TAM has been great for that... just the answer for me ChangingMe - no rudeness intended.


And I understand that, I really do. I was asking in hopes of helping jeff to really ask himself that question -what IS he hoping to get out of posting?

Everyone has a right to post here, and hopefully they will gain insight and help, just like I have. And I am not vain enough to feel like I have all the right answers. But I do think people come to this site seeking something, so I was curious what exactly that is for jeff.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Its not easy to walk off the path of the cuckold when someone's been on it so long. 

Hes probably packing his trunks for his forced vacation with his selfish wife who needs to get on a treadmill.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Kasler said:


> Its not easy to walk off the path of the cuckold when someone's been on it so long.
> 
> Hes probably packing his trunks for his forced vacation with his selfish wife who needs to get a treadmill.


jeff may not be overweight like his wife but he is carrying around more baggage than she is. He needs to drop that baggage and live for himself for a change. No one deserves what he has had to endure. I am saddened that he is allowing it to continue when he could be enjoying life with or without his wife. If he would just stand up and fight for himself.


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

bfree said:


> I am saddened that he is allowing it to continue when he could be *enjoying life without his wife*. If he would just stand up and fight for himself.


I fixed that for you. She is hopeless IMO and I am very sad for OP. Maybe even a little angry at him, I hate seeing people not stand up for themselves and just stand there while they get pushed around.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Soifon said:


> I fixed that for you. She is hopeless IMO and I am very sad for OP. Maybe even a little angry at him, I hate seeing people not stand up for themselves and just stand there while they get pushed around.


You're probably correct but D or R are irrelevent if he is a doormat and takes all this crap. Both paths require the same action. Standing up for yourself and demanding better. Its sad he doesn't seem to be able to help himself.


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

Kasler said:


> If you go on this cruise with such an unremorseful cheater.
> 
> Theres just nothing to say. This level of cuckoldry is near unprecedented.
> 
> I'd say man up, but you've heard it and ignored it at least 50 times already.


You can only lead a horse to water...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

This is my last post here. You've been given do much good advice that you refuse to listen to. 

You're wife is selfish and nasty, she s a remorseless cheater who is abusing you. She does need therapy to learn to be better person.

You sir, need to consider therapy for yourself. You need to find out and address why you are staying in an abusive toxic relationship with someone who very obviously has neither love nor respect for you.

Get help and get out is my advice.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Yeah its best to stop posting in this thread. Just a waste of time because hes not gonna do anything either way. Use it on other people who could actually benefit from the advice.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

Sorry, for my late reply. 
I've been out of town since Friday.


I want to think what everyone has said. Your advice is greatly appreciated.

I've thought & thought about all this.

I am going on the cruise, but it will be for me. Not for her.

It will be a chance to put what we have to rest.

I know she will not change......

I can just imagine that that after an argument or disagreement she will think back & be resentful for "giving me another chance". It will happen.

Her checking her dating site has been enough for me.....
I am tired of it. 
It makes me feel like I am a consolation prize....so she can keep a look out for potential guys.

I have been snooping on her since the beginning of October. I have seen what she does online, who she calls & the texts she receives. There has only been one instance of a phone call to the original OM. The rest are her accessing her dating site profile & not responding but reading the messages these guys send to her. It happened about 2-3 times a week. This past week or so, it has waned off some. 
Actually she is at work (ICU Nurse) today & I see where she went to the dating site for a minute or so & that was it.

So....here is my plan:

She will have surgery on Dec 26 (which just happens to be my b-day).
She will have to leave her phone with me. I know the current passcode to the phone. I suspect that she will change it knowing I will have her phone during her procedure.
Her family will be at her brothers house, so I am the only one taking care of her.

On her surgery day, I will ask her for the passcode to her phone.

I will ask her has she had any contact with the OM since I have been back home.
I will tell her, to think carefully in how she answers & to tell the whole truth.

I am doing this either on her surgery day or a day or so before. I know some may feel this is hateful of me. 

This will be 2 weeks from now.

I want to enjoy the cruise for myself.... it gives me a chance to finalize my feelings for her.

Part of my fear...or rather concern, is how I am viewed by her family & friends.

I have to assume that they have been told a filtered story about what happened between she & I.

Her girlfriends, like many women, will stand up for each other...even when it is something like what my WW has done. They blame the husbands....even though they would be devastated if their husband did something like this to them.

My WW will have to explain what she has done, or maybe she won't. They would have to have a cold heart to think that going on a dating site while reconciling is acceptable.


Anyway, I working thru all this. I am not a cuckold any longer.

I have come to a sense of peace with this now. I have done everything I know in as far as being a good husband to her. Regardless of all this, she still has done these things.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

You remind me of life.is.pain.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Don't stall just do it now.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

*jeff:*
Personally - I'd go on the cruise - but it dang skippy wouldn't be w/ her.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Why wait and continue to bow and scrape to her wishes in the meantime?

I don't understand why you want to keep doing this to yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> Why wait and continue to bow and scrape to her wishes in the meantime?
> 
> I don't understand why you want to keep doing this to yourself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He's still afraid. Still walking on eggshells. He set that date to try to work up the courage to confront her. What he needs to understand is that waiting will only build up anxiety and give his mind time to find a reason not to do it. It's self destructive procrastination at it best (worst).


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