# Tips for raising boys



## joygirl

Hi all, I read a thread today about importance of dads and I realize I need to reach out for help.

Can anyone please help with advise on how a woman can raise her sons to become great men? I mean healthy, well behaved, confident, loving, ambitious and goal oriented men, etc, who would in turn make good husbands and fathers in future?

I am a SAHM of five boys, 11, 9, 7, 5 and a 7 month old baby. I am basically raising them alone because their dad believes his duty is just to work hard and provide for them. He was raised solely by his mum from birth and never lived with his dad, so I guess he has problem acknowledging the importance of fathers on kids. I have talked to him many times and forwarded some write ups to him but it has not made a difference. Counselling is not available where we live and I have no intention to divorce (just so no one suggests these 2).

I would like some advise, tips, book suggestions on what to do and not do, from men and women alike. 

Thanks.


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## Mr. Nail

What your husband is doing is not all bad. In fact a good example is necessary.

1. Understand that boys grow in the laboratory not in the classroom. 
2. The best lab is the great outdoors.
3. Give them opportunities to serve.
4. competence is the reward.
5. Dirt is actually pretty healthy.
6. A boy needs to respect what women are, without thinking that what men are is bad. Don't put bad labels on boy behavior. same is true for girl behavior.

That's a good start.
7 - 11 are the prime years for boy scouting if you can accept it.

MN


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## Duguesclin

OP, my wife and I also have 5 kids, but only 4 boys.

You should not feel bad that your husband is working a lot. I am also gone a lot and home only during the week end. I am very proud of the way my wife is raising our boys. The oldest is soon to be 16 and the youngest is 6 soon to be 5 (). They are polite, helpful and responsible. 

They were raised the same way as their older sister (19 now), including ballet. Yes, you hear it well, ballet. They learned a lot. Unfortunately there were not enough boys in the classes and they wanted to stop. They are now in swimming classes instead.

Expect a lot from them but also love them, they will do fine.


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## Catherine602

Wow, 5 children and all boys. They have a lot going for them, a loving mother who has the desire to raise boys with fine principals and a hard working father. 

Your husband and his mother likely suffered financial hardship and that probably influenced his attention to hard work and leaving all of the mothering to you. How is his relationship with his mother? Sounds like his mother did a good job instilling the attributes you want for your boys so he may have faith that you are capable of doing the same. 

You can't change him but you may be able to influence him. Don't make him seem wrong. Try to avoid having conflict in front of the boys. Make it a goal to model good behavior towards each other so they learn to respect themselves. I am certain you will get other suggestions.


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## Runs like Dog

Boys are at a big disadvantage, socially, in the US. They will be kicked around by schools and most institutions that equate femininity with 'good' behavior and success. The key I think is to back them up no matter what, without hesitation and to love them no matter what without judgment.


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## Observer

Is he absuive? Does he set a bad example?

I need more information please. You say he works hard, that is actually something they need to see very much. Just because he is not involved when they are real young, does not mean once they become teenagers he will not be. In fact, the older they get, chances are the more he bonds with them. I know that probably pisses you off as you think he gets away with not helping during the hard years. The best thing you can do is praise your husbands strengths and try to compensate for his weaknesses. Communicate with your husband and encourage him in a positive way to be more involved.


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## jld

We homeschool our boys. The flexibility is great. 

Respect their father. Be grateful to him for providing for you. Be as honest as possible with him, even when it is painful or embarrassing. That example will be powerful for your boys to see.


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## DoF

Sounds like he needs more involvement and balance in his life. He must do other things other than work.....no?

Anyways, make sure you are their Authority figure before you are their FRIEND.

As they say, parent before friend.

This means:
- Don't let them get away with things
- Punish them when they act up (grounding/corner etc).
- Keep them busy with activities and ESPECIALLY responsibilities (laundry, clean house, help cooking, dish washing, outdoor tasks)....EVERY member of the family contributed
- Identify when they want to use yoru niceness against you.....they will do this as much as you let them.

All of these things will not only help them to become responsible men, but it will also take LOADs of YOU (which you need).

DO NOT expect perfection......boys will be boys......


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## Malpheous

The best thing you can do for boys, and/or girls, is to help the father become engaged in raising the children, if he isn't already.

The benefits of the father role are best when coming from the... Well... Father.


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## SimplyAmorous

> *joygirl said* : *Can anyone please help with advise on how a woman can raise her sons to become great men? I mean healthy, well behaved, confident, loving, ambitious and goal oriented men, etc, who would in turn make good husbands and fathers in future?*


 That's a great list Joygirl.... honorable.... 



Malpheous said:


> *The best thing you can do for boys, and/or girls, is to help the father become engaged in raising the children, if he isn't already.
> 
> The benefits of the father role are best when coming from the... Well... Father.*


In our family.. I really think it's equal... Dad does stuff outside with the sons, projects, working with some tools, on the vehicles.... but I'm more of the conversation starter....then we bounce things off each other...Dad included..... it's very free flowing.. I suppose so much of this is dependent on personality though.. some boys just want left alone.. (this hasn't been our experience)... 

Our boys ages are 24, 17, 16, 13 & 7 ....

The whole "do sports with your son".. this is absent in our family.. I am not sure if we should feel bad about this or what. My H was never a Jock, not into sports... When we kept having son after son ...I'm thinking.... "







...WHY.. we don't even like sports - what are we supposed to do with them all !!".. I tried to get our oldest into baseball in Elementary thinking this is what BOYS DO... but all he wanted to do was Bat & started sitting down in the outfield, that was the end of that - not his thing!! 

But still everywhere we go, the comments .... "you got your own baseball team there" or football team...though 2 became pretty good CC runners..... maybe yours will have other special talents...Cultivate them.. 

So our experience has been to just ENCOURAGE them in whatever they ENJOY...whatever their passions are... sometimes it may be guitars & drums over baseballs & football..... What are your children into Joygirl.. if you can channel their passions in a healthy way.. 

And always keep the lines of communication open, be approachable..."*Boys will be Boys*"....so long as they aren't THIS BAD >>







....then I sympathize !! Too high strung restless ....not sure how some Mom's survive it !

Understanding what is pushing towards delinquency and what is just normal growing / puberty talking horny girl crazy joking ...that's to be expected even.. More importantly are signs of anger, isolation, peer pressure affecting their behaviors.. 

I feel one of THE MOST IMPORTANT things in their teen years are there circle of friends, so much influence here.....

Also what they see in the home exampled ...in regards to healthy communication, responsibility, how we treat others...respect.. honesty...if we hurt someone , do we apologize...no bullying, to stand up for the underdog -if we feel someone isn't being treated right... if a teacher calls with rotten behavior on behalf of our kids, we will be on the side of the teacher.. there will be consequences to actions... to enforce, you did a BAD THING (a hurtful thing to someone else) .. but you are NOT A BAD PERSON .... there is a big difference in these... and they learn from their mistakes. 

They know they will have the utmost freedom if they don't abuse it... don't lie to us.. don't sneak around.. I can be a bit of a tough love parent at times.. but also soft.. it just depends on the circumstance at hand. 

Friends were my salvation when I was growing up...so important in our teen years when we're trying to discover where we FIT.... we open our house to their friends, anytime they want to spend the night..hang out, have a party...we let them bring then on day trips, overnights.. treat them as family too.. 

Try to give your sons MEMORIES....a safe environment... these little things set the tone for a happy Home.. a good foundation from all things to flow outward.

Whether sons or daughters, I believe this to be true...


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## arbitrator

*First and foremost, let them experience the love of God at work; through your interactions with them, their father, and your community, family and friends. Overtly practice the Golden Rule and the Beatitudes! Set the example for them!

And always provide them with the room to grow physically, spiritually, mentally, and morally; and always instill in them exactly what respecting all people for who they are, in their race, creed, origin, and gender, as well as their boundaries and what that truly represents! 

And always let them know that while failure is often a necessary accompaniment in life, that you will always be there for them if they should ever fall!*


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## unbelievable

Ignore any advice you get from the media, from educators, feminists, and most other sources. Boys learn to be decent men primarily by watching and emulating decent men. If you intend to instruct your boys to be decent men you must be prepared to expose them and yourself to near-constant persecution in our modern western culture.
My best male role model was my maternal grandfather. He had high standards for male conduct and he lived them every day. He would tolerate nothing less. 
Scouting can be a good source. Organized sports could be helpful. If your dad is still with us, maybe he can fulfill that role. Guys don't typically sit around discussing these things, but role modeling works pretty well. Pick out an adult male that is like what you want these young sprouts to become and get them together. When you're out with the boys and you see a man doing the right thing, point it out to them. When you see a male-like human behaving in an unmanly, dishonorable fashion, point that out. Give them responsibilities and rules appropriate for their age and hold them accountable. Boys love to imagine themselves in the role of hero. Let them know you admire good manners, helpfulness, tenderness, respect, industriousness, an honesty in men and you expect these qualities from them.


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## FrazzledSadHusband

Find Cat's in the Cradle song on youtube. Tell your husband to sit down & really listen to the words.

I spent as much time as possible with my 3 boys, 2 are out of the house. I STILL feel like I missed a lot of time with my boys.

I wish I could spend .5 a hour with your husband. No one ever says on their deathbed - "I wished I would have worked more'. 

I've driven old cars for years so I don't have to earn as much.

I can work when the kids are grown.


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## 6301

First thing is to teach them to put the toilet seat down.


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## SimplyAmorous

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> *Find Cat's in the Cradle song on youtube. Tell your husband to sit down & really listen to the words.
> *
> I spent as much time as possible with my 3 boys, 2 are out of the house. I STILL feel like I missed a lot of time with my boys.
> 
> I wish I could spend .5 a hour with your husband. No one ever says on their deathbed - "I wished I would have worked more'.
> 
> I've driven old cars for years so I don't have to earn as much.
> 
> I can work when the kids are grown.


That song affects ME as strongly as any Father...just hearing the 1st notes, the tears gather... I did a thread on it once.. (link to the song in opening post)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family-parenting-forums/35193-cats-cradle-does-other-parents-do.html

*Boy Scouts *is a good organization, they will feel a sense of community, working on projects together, you got your Cub book to help Dad cross off areas to be involved with SON.. (our 7 yr old is a Wolf right now)..

Getting them into *karate* helps with discipline.. things like* Band* in high school -if they are into music...whatever they take a liking to do..If they are into Arts, Drama, maybe they will want to participate in *Plays*.. whatever it is...encourage that.. 

Volunteering activities such as -if your city has a local "*Carpenters Project*".. usually they find teens in youth groups to participate.. Our sons like doing this every year....Having day vacations with dad, taking them to a museum, to see a concert they'd enjoy, a game...

I think my H regrets not taking the kids *fishing* enough when they were younger.. I was always there with the camera to say "But you did -remember this !?"...

I think there will always be regrets.. especially when "Cats in the Cradle comes on the radio"! It's inevitable. it all goes soooo darn fast ...


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## arbitrator

SimplyAmorous said:


> That song affects ME as strongly as any Father...just hearing the 1st notes, the tears gather... I did a thread on it once.. (link to the song in opening post)
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family-parenting-forums/35193-cats-cradle-does-other-parents-do.html
> 
> *Boy Scouts *is a good organization, they will feel a sense of community, working on projects together, you got your Cub book to help Dad cross off areas to be involved with SON.. (our 7 yr old is a Wolf right now)..
> 
> Getting them into *karate* helps with discipline.. things like* Band* in high school -if they are into music...whatever they take a liking to do..If they are into Arts, Drama, maybe they will want to participate in *Plays*.. whatever it is...encourage that..
> 
> Volunteering activities such as -if your city has a local "*Carpenters Project*".. usually they find teens in youth groups to participate.. Our sons like doing this every year....Having day vacations with dad, taking them to a museum, to see a concert they'd enjoy, a game...
> 
> I think my H regrets not taking the kids *fishing* enough when they were younger.. I was always there with the camera to say "But you did -remember this !?"...
> 
> I think there will always be regrets.. especially when "Cats in the Cradle comes on the radio"! It's inevitable. it all goes soooo darn fast ...


*No,, Simply! I could not make it through two stanzas of that song without having tears well up in these old green eyes of mine! The combination of Harry Chapin's most famous song ever and an early morning email from my youngest who is a English/Communications major at Texas A&M has hit me like a ton of bricks this morning! I'll share that later in this thread.

Back in the very early 80's, when I was doing oilfield administrative work, pre-marriage, footloose and fancy free, toodling around Houston in my little yellow VW Kharman Ghia convertible, I can quite vividly remember hearing that song blare out from my car stereo and thinking rather cognitively about the relationship between me and my Dad.

One particular Wednesday afternoon back then, I was in my office hurriedly finishing up some paperwork when my office telephone rang ~ there weren't many cell phones then, and those that were fortunate, or unfortunate enough to have them, had to lug them around in their 25 lb. leather cases ~ and who was on the other end of that call was my Dad. Being an offshore supe, who had to take a chopper out into the Gulf each and every day in order to check out his block of offshore drilling rigs, a rather strong storm system was prohibiting his chopper pilot from returning them to their normal home base in a seaport town in SW Louisiana and was being diverted to Galveston, only about a 50 minute drive from my SE Houston office. He told me that he was going to be in Galveston for several hours, possibly overnight, until that bad weather east of there finally cleared,and wanted to know if I'd like to join him and his pilot for a big-assed seafood dinner at Gaido's! Well, Gaido's alone should have been incentive enough alone, because it is, preeminently the finest seafood restaurant in Texas. But I told Dad that I was busy and had plans later that evening(certainly nothing that I actually couldn't have broken off to go see him) but would take a "rain check." Dad just kinda laughed and said, "Well, Son ~ your loss ~ the company is paying for it!" 

In retrospect, I really wish that I would have made that trip down the Gulf Freeway that afternoon, for I'll never truly know what I missed. I do know, however, that I missed the company of a very great man, and continue to miss it so much more, now that he's gone!*


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## meson

joygirl said:


> Can anyone please help with advise on how a woman can raise her sons to become great men? I mean healthy, well behaved, confident, loving, ambitious and goal oriented men, etc, who would in turn make good husbands and fathers in future?
> 
> I am a SAHM of five boys, 11, 9, 7, 5 and a 7 month old baby. I am basically raising them alone because their dad believes his duty is just to work hard and provide for them.


Your boys are a good age to join a scouting program. The 11 year old could join a Boy Scout troop where he will learn to be a leader, do outdoor things and interact with older boys and adults. He will be taught the Scout law, "A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent." Your younger boys could join the Cub Scouts.

Your husband is correct in that a father must be a provider but a father is also much more. A father needs to be an example to his boys and teach them skills, manners and respect. He must show them how to be a provider as well as being there for them when they need guidance.

You can help nudge your husband along by using Scouting as well. Once your boys are in a Troop you can encourage your husband to do some of the activities and perhaps this will encourage him to be a leader to help his boys and others. 

I was like your husband many years ago. My Dad was raised by a father in a time when kids were only seen not heard and the father was mostly a provider. He always thought his dad didn't like him until one day his dad backed him up for something in pubic. His dad died shortly afterwards and he never learned what it was to be a father. As a result I became a father much like him and was distant from the kids. But through influence of my wife (because she loved Girl Scouts as a kid) I was introduced to scouting and became involved. Through my wife and a couple of others I learned a better way to be a father to my Sons and daughter. I broke the family trend and I get it now. 

Perhaps you can nudge your husband to become involved in some way with them and his main hobby or skill. The Cats Craddle song is as real for me as others but it doesn't need to end the same as the song.


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## meson

arbitrator said:


> *No,, Simply! I could not make it through two stanzas of that song without having tears well up in these old green eyes of mine! The combination of Harry Chapin's most famous song ever and an early morning email from my youngest who is a English/Communications major at Texas A&M has hit me like a ton of bricks this morning! I'll share that later in this thread.
> 
> Back in the very early 80's, when I was doing oilfield administrative work, pre-marriage, footloose and fancy free, toodling around Houston in my little yellow VW Kharman Ghia convertible, I can quite vividly remember hearing that song blare out from my car stereo and thinking rather cognitively about the relationship between me and my Dad.
> 
> One particular Wednesday afternoon back then, I was in my office hurriedly finishing up some paperwork when my office telephone rang ~ there weren't many cell phones then, and those that were fortunate, or unfortunate enough to have them, had to lug them around in their 25 lb. leather cases ~ and who was on the other end of that call was my Dad. Being an offshore supe, who had to take a chopper out into the Gulf each and every day in order to check out his block of offshore drilling rigs, a rather strong storm system was prohibiting his chopper pilot from returning them to their normal home base in a seaport town in SW Louisiana and was being diverted to Galveston, only about a 50 minute drive from my SE Houston office. He told me that he was going to be in Galveston for several hours, possibly overnight, until that bad weather east of there finally cleared,and wanted to know if I'd like to join him and his pilot for a big-assed seafood dinner at Gaido's! Well, Gaido's alone should have been incentive enough alone, because it is, preeminently the finest seafood restaurant in Texas. But I told Dad that I was busy and had plans later that evening(certainly nothing that I actually couldn't have broken off to go see him) but would take a "rain check." Dad just kinda laughed and said, "Well, Son ~ your loss ~ the company is paying for it!"
> 
> In retrospect, I really wish that I would have made that trip down the Gulf Freeway that afternoon, for I'll never truly know what I missed. I do know, however, that I missed the company of a very great man, and continue to miss it so much more, now that he's gone!*


Very sad! Joygirl a similar experience awaits your husband if he waits too long to reach out and be with his boys. This is also one of my dads big regrets that he didn't really get to know his father.


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## unbelievable

We might want to cut this husband and father a little slack. If he's supporting seven people (not to mention all the others on the public dole he's supporting), he'd better spend a lot of time at work. I don't know what the man believes and nobody else other than God does, either. I supported just four only on my paycheck and I know what that weight felt like. I had to work two jobs, sometimes three. He might very well wish he could spend his days fishing and camping with his kids. Somebody has to keep groceries on the table. In a world where men routinely make babies they don't acknowledge or support, a world where lots of men don't even bother to try to support even themselves, this guy's labor takes care of seven people. He may not be the perfect father or husband but this man is carrying a load of weight. Personal accountability, self reliance, and unwaivering reliability would be two lessons I'd want my sons to learn and this guy trudging off to work every day is a great example of all three.


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## SimplyAmorous

arbitrator said:


> *No,, Simply! I could not make it through two stanzas of that song without having tears well up in these old green eyes of mine! The combination of Harry Chapin's most famous song ever and an early morning email from my youngest who is a English/Communications major at Texas A&M has hit me like a ton of bricks this morning! I'll share that later in this thread.*


 I so understand.. Our oldest is out of the house now, he has his own life, we may only talk once a month even, our 'hands on" time parenting has passed/ he's flown the nest .. but it was Oh SOOOOO Good when it was. ..and it's a delight when we all get together. 

One memory stands out to me... I was down in the basement when our oldest was about 5 yrs old.. I was ironing clothes.. I had the radio on...that "Focus on the Family" program (I know some will roll their eyes here - but you are not one of those Arbitrator).. Dr. Dobson was giving the story BEHIND "Cats & the Cradle"..

.. I never forgot that day.. and what I heard, since that moment in time.. that song has forever reminded me to STOP.. get on my knees, PLAY Laugh, and listen.. our time is Now..



> Dobson on Cats & the Cradle
> 
> One of the most poignant songs ever written is “Cat’s in the Cradle” by the late Harry Chapin. I’m Dr. James Dobson with My Family Talk.
> 
> The lyrics of that sad song tell the story of a father who has good intentions toward his young son; but there are always planes to catch and bills to pay, and the father finds himself making excuses. “When you coming home, Dad?” “I don’t know when, but we’ll get together then, son. You know we’ll have a good time then.” Despite the disappointments, the boy loves and admires his father. Again and again, he says, “I’m going to be like you, Dad. You know I’m going to be like you.” But time passes, and the boy becomes a young man. The father’s priorities have changed, now. He’d like to visit with his grown-up son, but now it’s the son’s turn to offer excuses. “You see, my new job’s a hassle, and the kid’s have the flu. But it’s been nice talking to you, Dad. It’s been nice talking to you.” As the father hangs up the phone, the tragedy hits him. “He had grown up just like me. My boy was just like me.” I sincerely hope that all fathers who hear this wonderful song take this message to heart.
> 
> The years with our growing children are all too precious to squander. Let’s use them wisely, so that when the time comes to look back on our lives, we can do it with gladness instead of regret. To the memory of Harry Chapin, I say thank you for this timeless reminder. This is Dr. James Dobson with My Family Talk.


I got his saying out of one of his wife books I bought yrs age called "Let's Make a Memory"....












> *One particular Wednesday afternoon back then, I was in my office hurriedly finishing up some paperwork when my office telephone rang ~ there weren't many cell phones then, and those that were fortunate, or unfortunate enough to have them, had to lug them around in their 25 lb. leather cases ~ and who was on the other end of that call was my Dad..........
> 
> and wanted to know if I'd like to join him and his pilot for a big-assed seafood dinner at Gaido's! Well, Gaido's alone should have been incentive enough alone, because it is, preeminently the finest seafood restaurant in Texas. But I told Dad that I was busy and had plans later that evening(certainly nothing that I actually couldn't have broken off to go see him) but would take a "rain check." Dad just kinda laughed and said, "Well, Son ~ your loss ~ the company is paying for it!"
> 
> In retrospect, I really wish that I would have made that trip down the Gulf Freeway that afternoon, for I'll never truly know what I missed. I do know, however, that I missed the company of a very great man, and continue to miss it so much more, now that he's gone!*


 got me crying over here ....


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## michzz

My own son didn't want to join the boy scouts, but i really liked it, my dad was very involved with the troop. fond memories of that time.

instead of scouting, i helped my son make movies in middle school with his friends.

He went on to get a film degree and tells me all the time that my helping him learn Adobe Premiere and Final cut Pro and carting he and his friends around to location shoots were very important to him growing up.

Basically, be involved in the kids lives besides providing a home to live in is important. 

Time with dad, you know?


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## SimplyAmorous

unbelievable said:


> *He may not be the perfect father or husband but this man is carrying a load of weight. Personal accountability, self reliance, and unwaivering reliability would be two lessons I'd want my sons to learn and this guy trudging off to work every day is a great example of all three*.


 Yep... men with larger families and a stay at home Mom can feel like this >>







..

My H has supported 8 of us.. I only bring in about 5% of our income (He prefers it this way, he's old fashioned like that)....he is a blue collar worker, no 6 figures here..though we have done very well... kids have never went without...always had $$ for emergencies. a new roof, vehicle, it's there. Really reduces the stress. 

I was thinking about this the other day, I couldn't think of a time he ever "called off" work... so I asked him... it was only 2 times...we're talking over 45 yrs here.. he's been working since age 16.. (never been laid off)...he said when he broke his toe (little brother chasing him around with a garden hose when he was a teen) that was the 1st time.. and yrs ago when he broke down on the way to work (the job he has now).. that was a crazy record of reliability.. but it doesn't surprise me....that's my Husband... to miss a day of work he'd have to be on death's door. If he says he isn't feeling good, I also know this means he's really in pain, might have to call the ER ... he is not one to complain.. 

For us as SAHM's....having more free time over our working husbands (I understand some will disagree here)....it will help if we can do ALL we can to ease his work day, so when he comes home, he can relax (Hopefully he is not stopping at the bar, things like that).. .and have that free time for the kids...If they have any after school activities we can go cheer them on... things like that.. even the family running out for pizza, being together.. ...In our area, on Mondays, one shop has them for $3.95 each, we always buy like 6 of those.. and it's a night out. 

I've always felt my role is easier in comparison...my H sometimes gets up an hour early just to PLOW our 750 ft uphill bendy driveway just to get out of it -to get to work. then brave the snow covered/ icy roads, then work outside in below freezing temps, rain, sleet, you name it. . I am so very grateful for ALL he does, what he carries.... 

On his 50th Birthday, I had all the kids write messages on balloons for him.... our 3rd son recognized all he does & wrote this on his..... 
"Happy Birthday Daddy .... you fo' shizzle work too hard & should make us do some work , cause we're lazy butts and stuff...you should take it easy , and enjoy this glorious day!"


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## Mr. Nail

I'm so glad I'm not the only one to suggest Scouting. There has been so much controversy that you hardly dare recommend it, but no other organization has their experience.



6301 said:


> First thing is to teach them to put the toilet seat down.


This one makes me laugh. When ever I get into a discussion about whether to leave the seat up or down. I just say OK It's down, may be wet but it is down.
MN


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## SimplyAmorous

Mr. Nail said:


> This one makes me laugh. When ever I get into a discussion about whether to leave the seat up or down. I just say OK It's down, may be wet but it is down.
> MN


With a house full of testosterone, I guess I never cared.. they can be Messy...when I walk in there, it takes me 1 - at the most 2 minutes to scourer the toilet, wipe it down....a little freshening ... whatever, ...and I'm outta there..... Only if the little one down right squirted on the floor, then he'd be called in -with the raising of my voice with a wet rag in hand -to be careful with his wiener aim, he's cleaning it up...that gives incentive !.... otherwise I let the boys be boys..

Half of them leave the seat up, half put it down....just not something that's ever bothered me .


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## Runs like Dog

We've always been of the 'serve others' mindset. Get them to do some sort of public or volunteer service from an early age. Lend a hand, help those who need it.


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## Ikaika

My personal philosophy for how I raise my youngest. My oldest is mentally handicapped and I do expect that my youngest will be financially secure enough to support his own family and help his brother out after we are gone. Some of you may not agree, but it is my way. Take from it what you like, or not. 

1. I Teach a quiet sense of superiority. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting a boastful behavior, nor do I suggest my son assume any sense of arrogance that is detectable by others. He comes from two warrior classes of people. So he has to realize he can and should be able to achieve his highest potential. 

2. I blend into #1 with a sense of insecurity. The attitude that if you allow yourself to let your guard down it will be taken from you. My son likes to play sports football and basketball. Some of you may find my tactic harsh - I have never told him he did a good job out there, even if he had, rather I point out how much better he can perform. Same applies to academics. Rather than say do your best, I tell him, play hard to make a difference for your team. To match the feeling of #1, he has to work hard to reach it. I personally don't think he can unless he realizes someone else will out work him for his spot at success. 

3. Delayed gratification - you don't need everything now, to reach for a congruency with #1, it takes sacrifice. Work off the field or on homework has to be twice as hard as on the field or in the classroom.

4. He knows whatever he does in life or acts like in public, he "shall never ever bring dishonor to the family name".


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## meson

unbelievable said:


> We might want to cut this husband and father a little slack. If he's supporting seven people (not to mention all the others on the public dole he's supporting), he'd better spend a lot of time at work. I don't know what the man believes and nobody else other than God does, either. I supported just four only on my paycheck and I know what that weight felt like. I had to work two jobs, sometimes three. He might very well wish he could spend his days fishing and camping with his kids. Somebody has to keep groceries on the table. In a world where men routinely make babies they don't acknowledge or support, a world where lots of men don't even bother to try to support even themselves, this guy's labor takes care of seven people. He may not be the perfect father or husband but this man is carrying a load of weight. Personal accountability, self reliance, and unwaivering reliability would be two lessons I'd want my sons to learn and this guy trudging off to work every day is a great example of all three.


It's about balance. His primary relationship is his wife followed by his family and then work. He is doing well as a provider from what Joygirl says. But she is here posting about how to raise boys. To me this shows that she has a need that is Not being met. She is worrying about the best ways to raise them without an engaged father. This screams to me as a wife's unmet need. The boys don't know any different at this point but they need him as well. His priorities are out of balance. Why should his wife worry about it? It's his responsibility as a father but he is not engaging. 

Joygirls post resonates with me because I was her husband 10 years ago. I was too absorbed being a provider. This seems good at first but the resentments my wife felt built and built. My boys suffered and one of them felt he walked alone. I realized that my life was out of balance and hurting the people I loved. Our marriage degenerated and divorced was discussed a couple of times. 

Fortunately I worked at saving my marriage and figured out some of the needs of my wife and kids that were not being met. I rebalanced my priorities and restored family harmony. The boy who walked alone is now an Eagle Scout. My wife's needs were met and we both fell in love with each other again and went through a second honeymoon stage 15 years into our marriage. 

I'm hoping that Joygirl finds a way to help her husband rebalance.


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## coffee4me

joygirl said:


> Can anyone please help with advise on how a woman can raise her sons to become great men? I mean healthy, well behaved, confident, loving, ambitious and goal oriented men, etc, who would in turn make good husbands and fathers in future?.


When my kids were about 5 they began training in a sport. Their coach had them make a poster with their goals for the short term and the long term. It could be anything sports, school, cleaning their room etc. he asked the kids to put the poster in their room so they could visualize their goals and as a reminder if what they were working toward. At a young age it really helped to have a visual. 

The goal setting and the idea of working toward something was further emphasized with my fathers New Years family tradition of stating their accomplishments for the past year and their goals for the new year. 

My kids are teenagers but they have been setting goals for themselves for many years. They are always working toward something. If you want your kids to be goal oriented have them start setting some goals for themselves.


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## lifeistooshort

My father supported 5 of us, blue collar worker (butcher), and always seemed find time to take me bowling or go to all of my track meets. As I became an adult we talked on the phone every day. Even when I had my own kids and was busy I'd still call him in the car on my way home (hands free headset). That's what happens when you invest time in your kids. 

When he was fighting cancer he used to call me at all hours of the night and I'd pick up. He's been gone almost 3 years and I wish he would call and wake me up..... when I'm in the car I still think about calling him. The world is a little darker without him in it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable

It wasn't all that terribly long ago that an average man with a decent job could support five or six people only on his salary and still find time to do the Brady Bunch thing. Those days are gone. My dad had only a high school diploma. He worked one 40 hour a week job and fed himself, a wife, and four sons. We also had a boat, multiple cars, 120 acres of farm, horses, cattle, farming implements, barns, etc (all bought on his sweat). Not even remotely possible today.


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## lifeistooshort

We didn't have any of that, but he did save enough to take care of himself into retirement so he was still able to pay bills during his cancer fight. That helped a lot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog

Boys up to about the age of 16 or 17 are probably not as emotionally resilient as girls the same age. They feel deeply, in silence. And their peer group is less emotionally supportive. Never stop telling them how much you love them and are proud of them.


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## jld

unbelievable said:


> It wasn't all that terribly long ago that an average man with a decent job could support five or six people only on his salary and still find time to do the Brady Bunch thing. Those days are gone. My dad had only a high school diploma. He worked one 40 hour a week job and fed himself, a wife, and four sons. We also had a boat, multiple cars, 120 acres of farm, horses, cattle, farming implements, barns, etc (all bought on his sweat). Not even remotely possible today.


Economic conditions have changed quite a bit since the postwar years.

But let's be honest: people have much more luxurious lives today, too.


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## joygirl

Observer said:


> Is he absuive? Does he set a bad example?
> 
> I need more information please. You say he works hard, that is actually something they need to see very much. Just because he is not involved when they are real young, does not mean once they become teenagers he will not be. In fact, the older they get, chances are the more he bonds with them. I know that probably pisses you off as you think he gets away with not helping during the hard years. The best thing you can do is praise your husbands strengths and try to compensate for his weaknesses. Communicate with your husband and encourage him in a positive way to be more involved.


Thanks to everyone here for taking out time to reply and rendering valuable advise here. I will shed light on my situation a bit.

He is not abusive. I am sure he loves his kids and does very well at providing. I appreciate that he works hard to take care of everybody in the family and I'm happy taking care of the house and kids. 

One of the reasons I opened this thread to ask for advise is because I fear the boys may see the dynamics of our family as a standard, and end up being exactly like their dad, believing all they need to do is work hard and provide, and let the wife raise the kids all by herself.

We are neither Americans nor do we live in the West, and we come from a culture in which men are expected to provide for the family. The kids know this, and they are aware that all the men here, do provide for their family, according to their means. They also know that some of the men, actually do other things other than providing and it is becoming difficult for me to find a way to strike a healthy balance between trying to defend him and NOT making them believe what he's doing is okay. 

He doesn't work all day. Works from 7 to 5 most days and only weekdays. The kids are with me on one side of the house and he's in the study room on his computer, tablet or phone any time he's not at work. He eats right there on his computer table. I don't want them thinking this is normal. My 9 year old is the most outspoken and he once told me "dad doesn't care about us". I was taken by surprise and without thinking told him not to say that. Pointed out to him all the things he has that some of his friends may not have (they all have a tablet and the first two has PCs) and how their dad works hard to provide all of those things. I felt so bad after saying this and wondered if I have not just reinforced the believe that loving your kids means providing for them and that is it. 

Thanks to Meson for suggesting I try to help him become a more involved dad, but I have tried that for years and given up and just have accepted that this is my life and it is my responsibility to do what is best for them. I tell myself that there are single mums out there raising kids while working, so, I should be able to do even a better job, since I am home with them all the time, except school hours. I commend you for stepping up and doing right by your kids and I wish all men could do this. 

I will ask my friends whose kids are scouts to see about them joining as soon as possible. I show them love all the time (but sometimes wonder if it's too much and I need to be tougher or something)
and they all help out with housework, and taking care of the baby whenever I'm busy in the kitchen. They are affectionate kids and tell me they love me all the time. I will give them more time to play outdoors and the the garden as someone suggested (they love gardening). I will print out this thread and refer to all the great advise given to me therein from time to time. 

One last thing, I doubt very much my husband will look back and regret not spending quality time with his children. He has never shown any emotion that indicates he wishes he had real father/son relationship with his dad. He apparently doesn't think he missed out in any way. We live in another country because of work, and he has not seen his dad (or shown any interest to) in almost 9 years. They talk regularly on the phone, but it doesn't seem to bother him that they have not seen each other for years. My dad, mum and his mum has been here for visits at different times.


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## Mr. Nail

Joy,
I'm glad you have found good value in our advice. I would encourage your husband to eat with the family one meal a day if possible at least 3 times a week if that is all he can do. I also have great hopes that he will also get involved in scouting.

Because this thread will hang around here for a long time, I'm going to add a meme from my son's list of favorites.


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## Hicks

joygirl said:


> Can anyone please help with advise on how a woman can raise her sons to become great men? I mean healthy, well behaved, confident, loving, ambitious and goal oriented men, etc, who would in turn make good husbands and fathers in future?
> 
> Thanks.


Stop putting so much pressure on yourself.

No one on earth can answer your question.

What I have discovered is the following:

Parental influence only goes so far in the behavior of a child. They are who they are.

Also, there are alot of people who become ambitions BECAUSE they hate the way they were raised.

There is no formula for what a parent does or does not do,a nd what that will do ultimately to a child.

Be the person you were created to be, do your best in all areas that are important to you, love your husband, keep the family intact, recognize that with your husband you get good and bad, that with you your husband gets good and bad, either of you will postively and negatively influence your children.... Then love your children, don't undermine the family, don't allow your kids to think they have a bad father.


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## meson

joygirl said:


> Thanks to Meson for suggesting I try to help him become a more involved dad, but I have tried that for years and given up and just have accepted that this is my life and it is my responsibility to do what is best for them. I tell myself that there are single mums out there raising kids while working, so, I should be able to do even a better job, since I am home with them all the time, except school hours. I commend you for stepping up and doing right by your kids and I wish all men could do this.
> 
> I will ask my friends whose kids are scouts to see about them joining as soon as possible.


That's great that you are looking into Scouts! Check out several Troops if there are more than one nearby. The style of the troop, how and what they do differ from troop to troop. One may suit your boys while others not.

Finally Scout troops usually look for parent volunteers to help out with events or camping trips. You might consider having your husband volunteer to help provide assistance to the Troop. Being involved even a little bit will create father son opportunities.


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## Hopelessus

I have only one son age 6. His father left and when he was around he was not at all handy. I can count on my hand how many light bulbs he changed and pictures nailed up. I don't want my son to just expect others to do this for him. I let him help me screw all the loose screws around the house, clean his room and things where I want to see him be independent. not that I am pushing out or away, but I feel like it sets the foundation. 
Do you plan weekend activities? We used to go to the farm and pick strawberries, pumpkins, peaches,etc. Just a day away from the house that would create a memory. My kids also love doing legos with their father.Even playing video games together.


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