# Pretrial conference.



## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Well, after 22 months separation, and many many attempts at a separation agreement. My attorney got a pretrial date set. WW and her attorney had stalled the process by being intractable, unreasonable. WW's work travel and social life make it impossible for her to have our sons more than every other weekend and maybe one day a week on alternating weeks. I have them the rest of the time. Along with all of the regular duties. Other than that, the remainder of it are money squabbles. She wants something that just isnt there. 

Although I am very happy that there is now some official movement. Anybody gone through this? Thoughts? Advise? It would be nice if she got logical at the eleventh hour and we could both be divorced that day. But, Im not holding my breath.

Thanks


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

It's not much but my STBXWW was completely unreasonable, which worked to my advantage once we finally got in front of a judge. I hear judges are very reasonable and mine certainly was. The judge straightened my ex out very quickly.

Up until that point she thought she was going to become a millionaire from the divorce or something.

We still haven't finalized the thing, it takes forever!

22 months man you must be ready to be done. I've only been separated a year and it seems so long!


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

At least your wife will hopeful show up to the hearing. We can't even get my estranged husband to do that.


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## gulfwarvet (Jan 7, 2013)

I have been down this road, my custody trial went on for six days.
The more unreasonable the ex appears to be the better. The judge will quickly begin discounting everything they say.
Don't expect much to happen at pretrial its just a formality you have to go through before trial.
Your exes attorney is not giving her sound legal advice (usually this done to line the pockets of the attorney with cash)or they may be seeing if you blink and they can get some concessions from you.
If it does go to trial I see it going much the same route as mine where under questioning your ex will reveal the shortcomings of her case.-If it comes to this help your attorney in coming up with questions to derail her and if things come up during the trial make sure to have a pen and paper handy to slide notes to him.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Thanks for the advise Gulf. It looks like my AxW will not be able to make it to the Pretrial conference. Something about work related travel. After all of the refusals, they finally agreed to mediation, which my Attorney quickly set up for this Friday afternoon. Striking while the iron is hot, so to speak. If we can hammer out the separation agreement then, I can still use the pretrial court date on the 17th. This signed separation agreement will be merged with the divorce decree. Done. All I wait for is final paperwork to come in the mail in a few months. Given that it has taken me almost two years to get to this point. I'm not holding my breath that I will be divorced this quickly. Unless the succubus of Satan has another man firmly in place. Hope she does. 

The boys and I will be just fine.


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## gulfwarvet (Jan 7, 2013)

Mediation-I went through that on 4 different occasions within a year and half in the interval the legal wrangling went on.
Are the attorneys going to be at the mediation?
In my case I convinced the stbx to forgo the attorneys to keep expenses down and coupled with the fact her attorney was so disagreeable I felt she would derail anything we might come up with.
I was able to get the property settlement finished.
The custody of our kids went to trial, she was hellbent on getting full custody.
Work on the easier things first and get them in writing and work on the most contentious issues that you might not find agreement last. If I hadn't gotten my property settlement done, trial would have been much more lengthy and expensive.


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## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

Document all your time with the kids. And remain calm and dont contact her.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Well mediation came and went Friday afternoon. All 5.5 hours of it. Her attorney came completely unprepared for it. They also showed up 20 minutes late. There was no traffic. 

Everything they questioned, I had documentation to back up. But, in the end, when everything was almost settled. I asked if she had ever provided documentation as to her compensation package from her employer. NO? Then lets see it. She was earning 40% more than the bogus numbers that were listed on last years W2. Based on that misrepresentation I did not settle. 

Needless to say the AxW and her attorney were quite upset, and left very quickly. Unless she decides to get real before next Thursday, then a trial date will be set.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

what happened in the end you settled favorable to you?


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Overall. Nothing has happened, except the continued Attorney expenses. There were two other status conferences in front of a Judge after the pretrial. She didnt show up for pretrial, only her attorney. She didnt show up for the first status conference. She showed up for the second. The night before, she came to me with a verbal agreement to the settlement. 

We all show up in court. Judge asks my Attorney if we have a settlement. Yes, he says. Judge asks Attorney, he says no. no!? He now feels that the settlement is not in her best interests and wants an extra 50k. Im very quietly fuming at point. So be it. 

I was ready for trial 2.5 years ago, I'm ready for it now. I have provided every scrap of paperwork her Attorney ever requested. Yet he still tells the judge he has further investigation to do. The judge has admonished her attorney a couple of times for not moving things along. But, this still does not seem to make any difference. I have provided all answers and documentation her set of interrogatories requested. This includes about 1500 pages of tracking, phone, laptop, PI documentation, personal and business financials. And that's just for 2012. This doesn't include all the documentation I provided from 2005. I have paperwork on everything. I stupidly tried to reconcile with a serial cheater that time, My bad. But, I learned.

She doesnt get alimony. The rest is a matter of going over the financials and splitting them up. Big deal. She initially wanted me to have physical custody of our youngest son, as she was traveling extensively for her job. Some thing SHE wanted to do. So be it, I agreed to liberal visitation. Since she has now lost that job, she has changed her mind on that. She continues to stall, and drag this out. She continues to live her "single" life, only seeing our youngest son when she is in the mood. 

To date, I have not received a single penny for any kind of support. I have the continued privilege of paying all of the bills. Including her car payment and insurance. All the while she stalls. 

She has found a new job, but still, this limbo continues. Two years nine months and counting. I'm very frustrated. Sorry if this sounds like a rant. What a mess. I haven't heard anything from my Attorney in a couple of months. I guess the ball is still in her court to develop more interrogatories or work to set up another court date/trial.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

toonaive said:


> Overall. Nothing has happened, except the continued Attorney expenses. There were two other status conferences in front of a Judge after the pretrial. She didnt show up for pretrial, only her attorney. She didnt show up for the first status conference. She showed up for the second. The night before, she came to me with a verbal agreement to the settlement.
> 
> We all show up in court. Judge asks my Attorney if we have a settlement. Yes, he says. Judge asks Attorney, he says no. no!? He now feels that the settlement is not in her best interests and wants an extra 50k. Im very quietly fuming at point. So be it.
> 
> ...


I am stuck in this similar cycle, of delays. The problem is these judges dont want to rule, they hope a settlement can be worked out so they allow these silly games to continue. Finances/documentation wise I have been ready for over a year and her lawyer has scoured the earth it seems for my "empire" of wealth that doesnt exist. She hasnt even submitted her full financials yet to the court. I keep thinking any common sense judge would order this to be done yet I confuse common sense with the law.

Hang in there, one of these days the judge will just have to put his foot down, thats what I tell myself anyway.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

toonaive said:


> ...
> To date, I have not received a single penny for any kind of support. I have the continued privilege of paying all of the bills. Including her car payment and insurance. All the while she stalls.
> 
> She has found a new job, but still, this limbo continues. ....


Why are you still paying for her ride?


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

At one point her attorney accused me of having more than two businesses, that I provided paperwork for. A pretty stupid assertion, because tax records would show anything else. The "fabulous cache of wealth", I may have earned over our 21 years, she squandered! Between lavish spending and bailing her family out of serious tax problems, and other family "loans". This well is dry. Im now putting away for my sons and me. But, paying off the debts she left is priority. She still hasn't gotten off her entitled horse yet. She is almost 50, chasing after younger men, pretending she is a princes.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

tulsy said:


> Why are you still paying for her ride?


Only because I started it while we were still together. It has only two years left on the note. Its still considered an asset on her side of the settlement equation. If she gives it back to me and buys her own car. It would make her balance sheet look better and mine worse. That is fine with me. I would just get rid of it. Its all about numbers to me. She is going to get something, she just wants too much. She will not accept that her standard of life is going to go down. It will all balance out in the end. But, Im not going to let her get rewarded for all of her bad behavior decisions that hurt the marriage and family. She wants her own life, fine. But, I wont let her take from her sons to maintain her imaginary standard of living. If she doesn't want to get real, I will let a judge handle it. Then nobody will get what they want. But, that may take a while.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I hope the value of the car is based on what it was worth at the time of separation and not when the settlement takes place. 

Cars aren't great investments. You would be losing not only your payment each month, but also the loss in value of the vehicle.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> I hope the value of the car is based on what it was worth at the time of separation and not when the settlement takes place.
> 
> Cars aren't great investments. You would be losing not only your payment each month, but also the loss in value of the vehicle.


That what I'm going for, the value at the time of separation. The same goes for my cars though. Mine were worth more then as well. Whether the value is higher or lower, it will all balance out. No, cars aren't great investments.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

toonaive said:


> That what I'm going for, the value at the time of separation. The same goes for my cars though. Mine were worth more then as well. Whether the value is higher or lower, it will all balance out. No, cars aren't great investments.


The timing of value is dependent on what state your in. Some like to use the separation date and others want to use the date of divorce. Simplicity would tell you date of filing since every number can be easily established at that point but again since its the court system and government they tend to enjoy making it complicated.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

honcho said:


> The timing of value is dependent on what state your in. Some like to use the separation date and others want to use the date of divorce. Simplicity would tell you date of filing since every number can be easily established at that point but again since its the court system and government they tend to enjoy making it complicated.


My attorney is using the date of separation for the values. I really dont care unless she is going to use the cost of repairs to devalue the vehicle she has been driving. She isnt the most careful of people when it comes to property others are paying for.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

I called, left a message, and texted my attorney last Friday morning concerning any updates. They have had the last round of interrogatories for about a month now, with no return answers or court date set from opposing council. But, still no answer from him. I haven't gotten much in the last 7 months concerning any progress. Last June 14 it would have been 365 days since I filed. An important date in any court action here in SC. At that point, the action has to be either dismissed, or it it goes in front of a Judge for final settlement or Trial date set, within 30 days. I'm two weeks passed that. I'm at a loss as to the lack of communication, and progress with this thing. I don't owe my Attorney any money, have always paid my bill timely. Anybody have any thoughts? or Suggestions?


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

toonaive said:


> I called, left a message, and texted my attorney last Friday morning concerning any updates. They have had the last round of interrogatories for about a month now, with no return answers or court date set from opposing council. But, still no answer from him. I haven't gotten much in the last 7 months concerning any progress. Last June 14 it would have been 365 days since I filed. An important date in any court action here in SC. At that point, the action has to be either dismissed, or it it goes in front of a Judge for final settlement or Trial date set, within 30 days. I'm two weeks passed that. I'm at a loss as to the lack of communication, and progress with this thing. I don't owe my Attorney any money, have always paid my bill timely. Anybody have any thoughts? or Suggestions?


Your dealing with attorneys, Fridays they rarely do anything but plan there weekend and Monday they scramble to catch up. 

Its probably not your attorney but hers holding up the show and he probably asked for some sort of delay. If your state is anything like mine the rules about dates just dont seem to be followed. You said your stbx has used the traveling for work excuse a few times now, her atty is probably playing that game thus the scheduling conflicts. Judges dont want to rule in divorce they seem to allow delays hoping the attys can work the deal.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

honcho said:


> dges dont want to rule in divorce they seem to allow delays hoping the attys can work the deal.


This is so true, for many reasons, one of which is that if the divorce is settled there's no chance of an appeal as opposed to a judge's decision which may be challenged, which means more work for the judge.

There may come a day when you wish you had given her that extra $50k she asked for, it may seem like a bargain when this thing finally ends some day. 

Those legal fees add up fast.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

lenzi said:


> This is so true, for many reasons, one of which is that if the divorce is settled there's no chance of an appeal as opposed to a judge's decision which may be challenged, which means more work for the judge.
> 
> There may come a day when you wish you had given her that extra $50k she asked for, it may seem like a bargain when this thing finally ends some day.
> 
> Those legal fees add up fast.


Part of why judges dont rule, they are part of the atty fraternity afterall.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

honcho said:


> Part of why judges dont rule, they are part of the atty fraternity afterall.


Also true. This is covered really well in Alec Baldwin's book about his own divorce. 

The judges, the attorneys, the bailiffs, the stenographers, the rest of the courthouse staff, they're the same people all the time, most of them know each other, they might even go out for drinks together, yes even the opposing attorneys.. but us.. the people going through life changing crises.. we're there for only a brief moment as far as the "regulars" are concerned. 

It's a big game, and and again, they're the regulars, we're just the drifters. It's not about what's "fair" it's about who knows who and it's about playing favorites and who's in a good mood that day and who isn't, and who owes a favor and who pissed someone off because they wasted their time or made them look bad or made extra work for them.. 

All the more reason to spend as little time in the courthouse as possible. 

I know, sometimes we don't feel like we have a choice. The other party is being "so unreasonable". Sometimes you gotta take a step back and think about what the alternative might be to giving in to their "unreasonable" settlement offer.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

lenzi said:


> Also true. This is covered really well in Alec Baldwin's book about his own divorce.
> 
> The judges, the attorneys, the bailiffs, the stenographers, the rest of the courthouse staff, they're the same people all the time, most of them know each other, they might even go out for drinks together, yes even the opposing attorneys.. but us.. the people going through life changing crises.. we're there for only a brief moment as far as the "regulars" are concerned.
> 
> ...


For the most part it is the buddy network and most know each others game, they call each other names to humor us clients then buy each other lunch. Judges are elected and in most communities the judge is the lawyer who wasn't good in private practice so he runs to become a judge so he gets a steady paycheck. If he was any good at the law he would be making real money.

The crappy part that lawyers never want to admit is most of the time they pretty know what the split is going to be right after they see the asset sheet, they play a war of attrition hoping someone gives in to get a better deal. 

Its when you get the unreasonable client that the costs get crazy, I am living that now. Even when the lawyer tells them that's the best deal they want more and the attorney is more than happy to waste more clients money knowing full well they wont get what they are asking/demanding.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

lenzi said:


> This is so true, for many reasons, one of which is that if the divorce is settled there's no chance of an appeal as opposed to a judge's decision which may be challenged, which means more work for the judge.
> 
> There may come a day when you wish you had given her that extra $50k she asked for, it may seem like a bargain when this thing finally ends some day.
> 
> Those legal fees add up fast.


We had a verbal agreement the night before the court appearance. I still have the recording on my phone. Why show up to court, wasting more time and money, and her attorney(she) change it? The point is, no matter what I agreed to, they always up the ante. It wouldn't have stopped at extra 50k. That has been the pattern to date. I don't understand this lack of attorney communication as to what happens next? He gets paid for it.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

honcho said:


> For the most part it is the buddy network and most know each others game, they call each other names to humor us clients then buy each other lunch. Judges are elected and in most communities the judge is the lawyer who wasn't good in private practice so he runs to become a judge so he gets a steady paycheck. If he was any good at the law he would be making real money.
> 
> The crappy part that lawyers never want to admit is most of the time they pretty know what the split is going to be right after they see the asset sheet, they play a war of attrition hoping someone gives in to get a better deal.
> 
> Its when you get the unreasonable client that the costs get crazy, I am living that now. Even when the lawyer tells them that's the best deal they want more and the attorney is more than happy to waste more clients money knowing full well they wont get what they are asking/demanding.


All I have to go by is what my Attorney and Account advise me. She has a great deal in that I'm offering to take over all the debts and pay them off. I'm giving up child support, I dont want any for the past 2.9 years. She has her car and insurance paid for until the note is finished in 2.5 years, she can keep the equity. She has a clean slate to start over and them some. It is exactly what she wanted when she left in 2005, and again in 2011. She has got it. As soon as she retained her attorney that picture changed as the year separation requirement was up, and lover boy(s) cooled off with her. Not so much fun i guess when she REALLY is getting divorced this time. The challenge gone. 

She is only thinking small picture. A pay out, on top of everything else. Heck! for all I know, its my Attorney that is stalling. This lack of progress can be maddening at times. SC really must be the worst state to get divorced in.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

honcho said:


> Your dealing with attorneys, Fridays they rarely do anything but plan there weekend and Monday they scramble to catch up.
> 
> Its probably not your attorney but hers holding up the show and he probably asked for some sort of delay. If your state is anything like mine the rules about dates just dont seem to be followed. You said your stbx has used the traveling for work excuse a few times now, her atty is probably playing that game thus the scheduling conflicts. Judges dont want to rule in divorce they seem to allow delays hoping the attys can work the deal.


Well, those work excuses just turned out to be trips to Las Vegas with loverboy. She was fired from that job 6 months later. She has a 2 year pattern of this. I expect the same from her new one. She has an intentional pattern of such behavior. Somebody HAS to feel sorry for her! :lol:


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

All of this is so true as I've come to learn as well. Our legal system really sucks when it comes to divorce cases. I'm ready to just throw in the towel and withdraw my divorce petition. I filed in Feb. of 2013 and am not any closer to a final divorce today than I was then. I don't have the money to keep throwing at this and my wifes attorney basically told her she wasn't doing anything more until she paid her bill and another retainer, which she certainly doesn't have (won't work).

It's really deflating. Sucks the life out of you.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

BeachGuy said:


> All of this is so true as I've come to learn as well. Our legal system really sucks when it comes to divorce cases. I'm ready to just throw in the towel and withdraw my divorce petition. I filed in Feb. of 2013 and am not any closer to a final divorce today than I was then. I don't have the money to keep throwing at this and my wifes attorney basically told her she wasn't doing anything more until she paid her bill and another retainer, which she certainly doesn't have (won't work).
> 
> It's really deflating. Sucks the life out of you.



I have no clue as to what she might owe her attorney or not. I'm completely paid up, and have not received a bill for anything since Feb 2014. I cant imagine my attorney is doing anything without being paid. I have asked for timely billing statements, so I can keep up with them. If a deal has already been made, I wouldn't mind knowing it, so I may get my ducks in a row. This limbo really does suck the life out of you. I just cant fathom why this doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Lots of activity, and costs for a year after filing, now, nothing.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

honcho said:


> The crappy part that lawyers never want to admit is most of the time they pretty know what the split is going to be right after they see the asset sheet, they play a war of attrition hoping someone gives in to get a better deal.


Yes. They know how much money their clients have, and they're more than happy to spread out the litigation over months or years just to pad their own pockets even though they know from day one roughly how it's all going to go down either at trial or settlement. 



honcho said:


> Its when you get the unreasonable client that the costs get crazy, I am living that now. Even when the lawyer tells them that's the best deal they want more and the attorney is more than happy to waste more clients money knowing full well they wont get what they are asking/demanding.


Some unscrupulous attorneys such as my ex wife's "pit bull team" put ideas in their clients heads that they're going to get so much more. They play into their emotions and greed and after they waste 10's of thousand of dollars in legal fees and ultimately get pretty much what they would have gotten if they settled much earlier, the attorneys' probably say "oh you got a raw deal, sorry".

Sounds like that's what's going on here. The Ops wife is making unreasonable demands so it's going to drag things out to no one's benefit but the attorneys and unfortunately there's not much that he can do about it.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

I just found out from the county clerk, that my divorce petition was dismissed this past july 17th. I called to see if there had been a new court date set. I just talked to my attorney the 16th. WTF? I understand that she is BPD, and a difficult divorce is in the works. But, this lack of follow through by my attorney is verging on malpractice. Either the divorce petition is reopened, or I get the pleasure of starting all of this over again.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

toonaive said:


> I just found out from the county clerk, that my divorce petition was dismissed this past july 17th. I called to see if there had been a new court date set. I just talked to my attorney the 16th. WTF? I understand that she is BPD, and a difficult divorce is in the works. But, this lack of follow through by my attorney is verging on malpractice. Either the divorce petition is reopened, or I get the pleasure of starting all of this over again.


I feel for you, I really do. Primarily because it's such a poignant reminder of so many screwups by no less than 3 attorneys I retained during my divorce. They're sloppy, lazy, they don't file paperwork when they should, they make all sorts of factual and arithmetic errors, they don't return emails and phone calls.. all the while billing 100s of dollars per hour.

No surprise that something wasn't followed up on and the petition was dismissed.. forget about malpractice- it's just not going to happen. Perhaps they can get the petition reinstated.. 

Might be time to consider a different attorney though.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

lenzi said:


> I feel for you, I really do. Primarily because it's such a poignant reminder of so many screwups by no less than 3 attorneys I retained during my divorce. They're sloppy, lazy, they don't file paperwork when they should, they make all sorts of factual and arithmetic errors, they don't return emails and phone calls.. all the while billing 100s of dollars per hour.
> 
> No surprise that something wasn't followed up on and the petition was dismissed.. forget about malpractice- it's just not going to happen. Perhaps they can get the petition reinstated..
> 
> Might be time to consider a different attorney though.


I too feel for ya. Its bad enough they make divorce a way of life that takes forever but not to even follow a simple procedure is hard to explain. 

Divorce attorneys do appear to all be the same, paperwork wise most are bad, they seem to go with the notion of you only need to know so much and dont ask too many questions. My first attorney I kept pointing out errors in paperwork and he didnt like being held accountable by me so he quit. 

Judges order things, attorneys dont follow the orders, judge does nothing about it. The entire system is a joke. When I worked for a local accounting firm years ago my boss used to do seminars for free to the local lawyers because the great property splits they did usually had such horrible tax consequenses to the clients and the lawyers just didnt have a clue. But they all pat themselves on the back for a good job.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

honcho said:


> the lawyers just didnt have a clue. But they all pat themselves on the back for a good job.


During an extremely difficult period during my divorce when I was unexpectedly served with yet another petition I needed to speak to my attorney, if nothing else to be reassured that we'd be able to effectively defend against yet another divorce related lawsuit. 

His law secretary said he was on (another) vacation. 

In frustration I said to her.. another vacation? He sure takes a lot of vacations. 

She said.. and I kid you not "It's very stressful being a divorce attorney so he needs to take a lot of vacations".

Yeah ok

One of the last bills I got from my attorney was somewhat easier to navigate, and things were starting to quiet down and my head was starting to clear so rather than just writing the check for a few thousand dollars I actually sat down and analyzed the bill in detail. There was a charge for $800 for 2 hours of attorney time for a "court appearance". There was no court appearance that day or any date anywhere close to the date of that bill!

So I called the office. The court had called and requested the attorney pick up the documents left at the courthouse during the trial. So they send a $400 per hour attorney to pick up the papers.. rather than a clerk..? and billed me for a "court appearance". 

That's when I fired my attorney and accused him of padding the bill. He said "it's a legitimate charge we had to get the paperwork!". But he "graciously" removed the charge from the bill and said I was one of his most difficult clients always questioning his billing practices. 

I can only imagine how much other stuff I missed when my head was clouded with the divorce related stress.

Early in the divorce my attorney requested all my assets for the discovery phase. On those forms I clearly stated I owned a house prior to the marriage and included all the property information. At divorce trial 3 years later my attorney informed me that they submitted the paperwork claiming the separate marital asset AFTER the deadline so the supporting documentation was not admissable at trial. 

The list goes on..

Get out of the system as quickly as you can. It's a mess.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

lenzi said:


> During an extremely difficult period during my divorce when I was unexpectedly served with yet another petition I needed to speak to my attorney, if nothing else to be reassured that we'd be able to effectively defend against yet another divorce related lawsuit.
> 
> His law secretary said he was on (another) vacation.
> 
> ...


And the sad part is the legal secretary probably knows the law better than the lawyer and does all the work. You should have just asked her.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

honcho said:


> And the sad part is the legal secretary probably knows the law better than the lawyer and does all the work. You should have just asked her.


I recall she was never very useful or knowledgeable, all she did was call to schedule appointments and that sort of thing. Maybe she was just a secretary.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

“Get out of the system as quickly as you can. It's a mess.” 

They wont let you out of the system, that’s the problem. I knew my divorce would be a mess the first time I met the judge, he got done with all sorts of proclamations that didn’t make any sense….then asked the lawyers if this is how other judges did it. Good thing he is in charge. 

SC must have some way to get your divorce reinstated and going again. You will probably have to seek out another attorney to get this moving again.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

honcho said:


> “Get out of the system as quickly as you can. It's a mess.”
> 
> They wont let you out of the system, that’s the problem.


The way to get out of the system quickly, or better yet, never enter it in the first place is to be able to effectively communicate and negotiate with your soon to be ex, and that may mean giving what seems to be large concessions that are beyond reasonable. 

I know a few people who had fast, mediated divorces that didn't cost an arm and a leg and were done within months. 

The courts and the attorneys are there, ready, willing and able to waste your time and spend your money if you can't get it done on your own.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

lenzi said:


> The way to get out of the system quickly, or better yet, never enter it in the first place is to be able to effectively communicate and negotiate with your soon to be ex, and that may mean giving what seems to be large concessions that are beyond reasonable.
> 
> I know a few people who had fast, mediated divorces that didn't cost an arm and a leg and were done within months.
> 
> The courts and the attorneys are there, ready, willing and able to waste your time and spend your money if you can't get it done on your own.


This would imply you can even begin to negotiate with a stbx. Mine wants 100% of my retirement, the house, everything in the house, lifetime alimony and every other asset I have. The little problem is she refuses to show any of her assets. She has as much as I do in retirement, she works full-time and in my state she will be lucky to get 5 years alimony and when I agree she can have the house she changes her mind. I offer to write a check to pay her equity in house right now, then she wants the house again. What is mine is hers, whats hers is hers and what is ours is hers. See the problem.

Her lawyer "off the record" tells me he cant deal with her and she wont listen so the keeps filing for delays which the judge with training wheels keeps giving. I'd love to get out but until I can get actual hearing and get her out of the "negotiating" its useless. I got a simple divorce and it cant get done.

I agree the quicker and faster you can do a divorce the better, I would have given her the deal of a lifetime to get it over with fast and most guys would I think. If the two parties are even close, give that extra and make the deal, its smart long term.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

honcho said:


> What is mine is hers, whats hers is hers and what is ours is hers. See the problem.
> 
> Her lawyer "off the record" tells me he cant deal with her and she wont listen so the keeps filing for delays which the judge with training wheels keeps giving. I'd love to get out but until I can get actual hearing and get her out of the "negotiating" its useless. I got a simple divorce and it cant get done.


Yeah, you're stuck until and unless she realizes she's wasting time and money. She might not get there at all, and it may take a divorce trial to get there. Most divorces don't go to trial, some even settle in the hallway on the first day of the trial or subsequently. My divorce trial ran 3 days and we could have gone another week but the judge called both attorneys into chambers. We could hear them arguing.. it was almost amusing.. after all that yelling they'd all come out and the judge would be calm and the attorneys would take each of us to our corner of the courtroom hallway as if nothing crazy was happening in the judge's chambers..anyway it was along the lines of "the judge strongly suggests you take this deal because he doesn't want to have to make a ruling and if one party says ok and the other wants to keep fighting it won't go well for them..."

So we "settled" and our divorce ended by agreement rather than ruling. Ex wasn't at all happy I could see her all bitter and antagonistic with her attorneys who were trying to convince her to take a deal that was almost exactly what I offered her 3 years prior. I didn't want to settle either even though it was what I originally offered because I was $100k deeper in the hole and I was just so angry at the complete and utter waste of time and the emotional toll the whole thing took on me and the kids. She got greedy, she bought into the false promises of her attorneys, and reality hit her a bit too late. 



honcho said:


> If the two parties are even close, give that extra and make the deal, its smart long term.


Right. It's all about damage control. You're going to take a hit and it's going to be painful but consider what it's going to cost to stay in it that much longer.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

She wont and yes she is having mental “issues” and we have requested she be ruled incompetent which of course her lawyer is fighting. At least that way the state would assign a guardian to get divorce done. Mine doesn’t have the money to keep feeding this lawyer. He has got to get a big settlement just for her to pay him. He made the mistake of putting her on the easy pay plan and now he is buried in her but lawyers always get the money somehow. 

Seriously I do feel bad for your situation and its just legalize robbery on the lawyers part. I wonder if they practice the judge yelling in chambers as part of the divorce theatre. 

Toonaive, I do hope you haven’t invested too much in your current lawyer, I really think finding a new one while kind of puts you back to square one, you don’t have any faith in the current one. 

A very good friend of mine left his wife almost 15 years ago now, they lead completely separate lives. They never got divorced and I never understood why and after living the divorce limbo I now see why.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

So, I got an Email from my Attorney this morning, telling me that they are supposed to get a letter before the court do that. They would petition the court to reinstate my divorce filing, and would again press for a hearing. 

I promptly told him, that "I" reminded him at the beginning of June, the middle of June and early July that those important dates were coming up. State statutes dictate, in the 30 days after the initial 365 days after filing that if, it not previously settled, it must go before a judge or it is dismissed. Why didn't it go before a Judge during that time? Why am I doing their job for them? 

My stbxw may be OK with living in limbo, indefinitely like this. But, I am not. I have two attorneys in my family, they both cant believe this mess. Guess, I may have to throw logic completely out the window.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

toonaive said:


> So, I got an Email from my Attorney this morning, telling me that they are supposed to get a letter before the court do that. They would petition the court to reinstate my divorce filing, and would again press for a hearing.


And of course, expect your attorney to bill you for whatever time it takes to reinstate the divorce filing, even though it was their fault that it lapsed.


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## gulfwarvet (Jan 7, 2013)

-My attorney had a bad habit of not reacting to anything until a crisis situation developed.
-At one point the other attorney threatened us with contempt of court because my attorney wasn't responding-maybe your attorney needs to do the same-
-stick to your guns!


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Well, its been a week since I found out that my Attorney had let my Divorce petition be dismissed. I was told that that wasn't a problem they could have it reinstated. They would provide me with a copy. 

Unfortunately, both a phone call and Email yesterday have gone unanswered concerning this. Engaging another Attorney, in SC, would require a Judges approval of transfer. So, for the moment unless I do this, I am stuck in the system. SC Legal system is very adversarial. No one Attorney can represent both in shuffling papers. In my view, this is how things got off track. She was initially good with the settlement. Until her Attorney got a hold of it, then all hell broke loose. No more amicable divorce. Think there may be any good in consulting with another Attorney as to what the heck might be going on? Possibly advise me as to what else I may try to get my Divorce moving? Or might this get me more deeply mired in the mud?


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

toonaive said:


> To date, I have not received a single penny for any kind of support. I have the continued privilege of paying all of the bills. Including her car payment and insurance. All the while she stalls.


 Then you let her and her attorney know that she is a parent, that the child lives with you and your paying for all the expenses and since she is the other parent, then she needs to start paying support.

If the shoe was on the other foot, the court system would have hung you by the gonads. 

This isn't a legal matter, it's a moral matter and she has a obligation to support her children. 

If the car is in your name, then go get it. You can't be arrested for taking your own car. I was going to suggest that you stop payment on the insurance but then your just putting the noose around your own neck but if the car is in your name then it's yours. 

let her know that when she's and her attorney are ready to pull their heads out of their collective ass' then she can get the car back providing she provides her own insurance and gets the car in her name.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

6301 said:


> Then you let her and her attorney know that she is a parent, that the child lives with you and your paying for all the expenses and since she is the other parent, then she needs to start paying support.
> 
> If the shoe was on the other foot, the court system would have hung you by the gonads.
> 
> ...


Both her and Attorney know about her obligation concerning child support. Cant get blood from a stone. But, she is legally obligated, and the must rule that way. There is no choice unless I sign it away or allow 50/50 custody. She is unwilling to concede on other issues. So, it is unlikely I will sign off on this. 

Car is in both names. If I hand over the payment schedule to her, and does not pay, my excellent credit, is damaged. I'm good with going to trial to settle this whole mess. I understand we, each, wont get what we want. But that would, at least, be progress. 

I have her on recorder verbally, and on phone message agreeing to terms. Her Attorney, in court, always says otherwise. He wants her to have everything. Last time, accused me of having businesses that dont exhist. 

Even though she cheated(no alimony, have years of evidence) and not only abandoned the marriage and home, but also care of the children. I fully understand that if the shoe was on the other foot, the book would be thrown at me. And rightfully so, But, unfortunately it isnt. The double standard still exists. There is no logic with this divorce it seems.

Gotta love divorcing BPD.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

If it was me I'd be bugging the crap out of my attorney, even if it meant going to the office.

What happens when you call? Do you get a live person or just a message machine? If and when you get a live person, you really need to make it known that you're unhappy and you're looking for answers.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

lenzi said:


> If it was me I'd be bugging the crap out of my attorney, even if it meant going to the office.
> 
> What happens when you call? Do you get a live person or just a message machine? If and when you get a live person, you really need to make it known that you're unhappy and you're looking for answers.



When I call I get that he is in a meeting or court or some other such nonsense. Emails pretty much go unanswered. I would have thought when I brought to his attention, the looming dismissal date of my divorce petition, might have been a kick in the butt for him. For a one Email it was. According to the SC bar association, a registered letter is in order expressing my concerns. If nothing happens within 30 days of that. Then a complaint to the SC bar, and they will investigate. 

In any event, its my life all this delay is messing with. I have no intention of R again. Why am I not allowed to go on with my life, while my STBXW can? 2 years 9 months of this mess.

It is so simple to me. We cant agree. Attorneys cant seem to accomplish this. Let a Judge do it with trial. Heck, doesnt even need to go that way. Use the state mandated calculations and just figure it out. Its a business transaction to me. 

My brother is an attorney in a different state. His opinion is that well Healed older attorneys, tend to skate on their reputations, and just let the system lope along without much involvement. Collect fat paycheck. Switching attorneys, has its own set of problems. Yes, settling is much better and cheaper. But, there is a fine line on what is equitable and what is not.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

toonaive said:


> When I call I get that he is in a meeting or court or some other such nonsense. Emails pretty much go unanswered. I would have thought when I brought to his attention, the looming dismissal date of my divorce petition, might have been a kick in the butt for him. For a one Email it was. According to the SC bar association, a registered letter is in order expressing my concerns. If nothing happens within 30 days of that. Then a complaint to the SC bar, and they will investigate.
> 
> In any event, its my life all this delay is messing with. I have no intention of R again. Why am I not allowed to go on with my life, while my STBXW can? 2 years 9 months of this mess.
> 
> ...


Its legalized robbery and they all pat themselves on the back for doing a great job when its all done. Yes its a business transaction yet its government and they have no clue how business is done.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

toonaive said:


> Both her and Attorney know about her obligation concerning child support. Cant get blood from a stone. But, she is legally obligated, and the must rule that way. There is no choice unless I sign it away or allow 50/50 custody. She is unwilling to concede on other issues. So, it is unlikely I will sign off on this.


 Then file for a separate hearing for support. Child support has nothing to do with property settlement and if this drags out, then when there is a set amount for support, then you ask the court for the back support from the time she left.

I don't care what part of the country you live in or what state, child support has nothing to do with anything but support.

If it was me, I would tell her that if she wants to see the kid then help support him/her or don't bother coming over or asking because I'll find every Mickey Mouse reason to make sure that were busy that day and you take responsibility and I'll let everyone know that your a DEAD BEAT MOTHER and since your a dead beat and refuse to support your kid then you lose your right.

Deny her once and you might get her to the table and then you set it up for monthly support from the courts that come out of her paycheck every month like everyone else does. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR HER NOT PAYING SUPPORT FOR HER KID AND LET HER ATTORNEY KNOW THAT TOO.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

6301 said:


> Then file for a separate hearing for support. Child support has nothing to do with property settlement and if this drags out, then when there is a set amount for support, then you ask the court for the back support from the time she left.
> 
> I don't care what part of the country you live in or what state, child support has nothing to do with anything but support.
> 
> ...


Not sure about other states, but, in SC nonpayment of child support cannot be used to limit or eliminate visitation. Very contradictory way of enforcing support i think.

What you suggest could possibly be used as a way to end any stalling. "tell your attorney to stop stalling, or I will file for child support, and any back payments due immediately". The Judge is bound by law to rule in my favor since I have the children the vast majority of the time. To date, I was working on signing away future and past child support payments as a way to urge the divorce forward. Maybe a new tactic is in order.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Yep, pretty much every jurisdiction separates visitation and support. The courts will not permit you to deny visitation to a deadbeat parent. You can use the visitation as an opportune time to serve her with a support summons.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Yeah you can't deny but you can make it awful tough and if she threatens to take it to court then by all means, let her and then you unload on her by letting the judge know that she hasn't pitched in one thin dime for support and it's about time that she starts supporting her child.

Judges frown on dead beats.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Sent an Email to my Attorney and his paralegal last week concerning going ahead and filing for child support. Still no answer. I have my certified letter ready to go at lunch time today for him to address the complete lack of communication, lack of bills, allowing my divorce petition to laps among other things. If he does not satisfactorily address these issues by Friday Noon, I will have another attorney pick up the slack and push things through. I did not say anything, about getting another attorney, I will file a complaint with the SC bar association concerning his actions(inaction). He is still part of a profession. One in which has standards of conduct. My brother and brother in law (both attorneys) will help me navigate this minefield. My divorce is going to take a while longer I think.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

That's a good way to handle it.

Although I still would have gone down to the office and raised Hell.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

New attorney retained, old one fired. I understand my STBXW owes money to her attorney, and now wants to represent herself. Not sure how far she can get this way in the SC courts. I can understand her attorney not wanting to move things forward without being paid, but I still cant understand why my attorney wont do anything so he can get paid. 

Unbelievable. I just cant make this stuff up.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

toonaive said:


> New attorney retained, old one fired. I understand my STBXW owes money to her attorney, and now wants to represent herself. Not how far she can get this way in the SC courts. I can understand her attorney not wanting to move things forward without being paid, but I still cant understand why my attorney wont do anything so he can get paid.
> 
> Unbelievable. I just cant make this stuff up.


This again is how the system gets bogged down by its own bueraucracy. Your attorney can only talk to her legal counsel. Her legal counsel wont work on anything because he isnt getting paid. Until her attorney filed papers to be removed as her legal counsel your attorney cant really get anywhere from a negotiating standpoint.

That being said your attorney can and should have followed up and kept your case active and pushed the court for a hearing date. Not to do that was neglegent on his part. Getting a hearing date would have forced your stbx to either pay her attorney or filed to have him removed and she could represent herself. 

Im gonna run into this myself here shortly I fear. My stbx is buried in her attorney and she has got no way to pay him off. He spent so much of her money chasing nonsense.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

honcho said:


> This again is how the system gets bogged down by its own bueraucracy. Your attorney can only talk to her legal counsel. Her legal counsel wont work on anything because he isnt getting paid. Until her attorney filed papers to be removed as her legal counsel your attorney cant really get anywhere from a negotiating standpoint.
> 
> That being said your attorney can and should have followed up and kept your case active and pushed the court for a hearing date. Not to do that was neglegent on his part. Getting a hearing date would have forced your stbx to either pay her attorney or filed to have him removed and she could represent herself.
> 
> Im gonna run into this myself here shortly I fear. My stbx is buried in her attorney and she has got no way to pay him off. He spent so much of her money chasing nonsense.


This sounds about right.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Seems like my second attorney, nor her paralegal seem all that interested in returning the phone call I made two weeks ago, nor the Email I sent a week ago. I am really seeing how the legal profession has earned its poor reputation.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

toonaive said:


> Seems like my second attorney, nor her paralegal seem all that interested in returning the phone call I made two weeks ago, nor the Email I sent a week ago. I am really seeing how the legal profession has earned its poor reputation.


It is incredible just how badly they run their own businesses and have this little disregard for the very people who do pay them. It just doesn't have to be this hard. 

All these lawyers seem to lose the focus that its peoples lives they are screwing with and not just who gets the bedroom set or whatever useless asset they love to debate.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Yea. She made a good impression. Better than the rest. But, ZERO results or communication. I made special point about the communication. With her or paralegal, it didnt matter. 

She will receive a letter this morning outlining my concerns. If she wasn't on board with representing me in this divorce, then she is to return my whole retainer immediately, since nothing has been done to warrant payment. If I don't get any feedback or action by the end of today. I will show up in her office mid morning tomorrow. I have already filed paperwork and documents with the SC bar association citing misconduct with my last attorney. My divorce shouldnt be that difficult. Its just a matter of equitable distribution. Im ok with a judge doing it, if thats what it takes, my X just keeps raising the bar, and ow she wants to represent herself! Holy Smokes!

The legal profession has earned its lousy reputation.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Just a short update. It seems that my letter worked for a time. Forensic accountant on board, and all requested financial documents in her hands for analysis. New attorney received a copy of the new divorce petition refiled by my old attorney shortly before I dismissed him. Still took him a month to forward all documents to new attorney, minus all the private investigator reports which I specifically requested. I paid for them, so I want them. Three months into this new divorce filing, still no court dates. 

New divorce petition did not have any pleadings attached to them. I wonder why? Old attorney also did not charge me to refile, and did not charge me Fedex overnight the documents. Mitigating his damages maybe?

New attorney seems to be following the same script as old attorney. Not returning calls, Emails, or giving periodic updates. All outlined in our written work agreement. I deserve something at least every two weeks. I thought very minimal. 

So, three years into this process, again, things are still moving glacially slow. Almost XW has not hired her old attorney nor a new one. She still seems convinced she can handle this pro se. I think this is code for more stalling. Eight years, and three filings for divorce from her, I would think she would get the hint. 

None of this is doing my blood pressure any good. These days, just cant seem to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I know its there. But, probably not any time soon. As such, my opinion of the legal profession in this country is still unchanged. They deserve their awful reputation. 

Having great difficulty in recapturing the joy these days.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

As a side note to everything, I am still gathering all the documents necessary to file a complaint with the state Bar association against my old attorney. Im sure they wont do anything, but at least he will get a copy of the complaint, and know that I didn't let his negligence did not go by unnoticed.


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## gulfwarvet (Jan 7, 2013)

wow-attorneys in general seem to take on way too many cases and customer service is nill.
Given you've got a contract that your new attorney isn't abiding buy it would seem to me you should dismiss this attorney as well so you don't prolong the agony.
Can you get a recommendation from anybody on an attorney that will aggressively pursue this case?
Seeing how your asking for the divorce, at least here in Minnesota that puts you in the drivers seat as far as as how quickly the divorce progresses if the other side doesn't respond, give documents that are asked for etc. in a reasonable amount of time a grievance can filed with the court and attorneys fees can asked for.
Things will get better, I had a case that went on for 3-1/2 years but eventually things worked out.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

gulfwarvet said:


> wow-attorneys in general seem to take on way too many cases and customer service is nill.
> Given you've got a contract that your new attorney isn't abiding buy it would seem to me you should dismiss this attorney as well so you don't prolong the agony.
> Can you get a recommendation from anybody on an attorney that will aggressively pursue this case?
> Seeing how your asking for the divorce, at least here in Minnesota that puts you in the drivers seat as far as as how quickly the divorce progresses if the other side doesn't respond, give documents that are asked for etc. in a reasonable amount of time a grievance can filed with the court and attorneys fees can asked for.
> Things will get better, I had a case that went on for 3-1/2 years but eventually things worked out.


Attorneys don't take on too many cases they just don't ever finish any. They create way more work than is necessary for the bulk of divorce cases and once you add in a spouse who refuses to do anything the cases just drag endlessly.

You can file and petition the court to force the issue the problem is getting the courts to act. Judges seem to love to scold and threaten and set deadlines but they rarely enforce any of it.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Just a short update. Had the office equipment appraisal finished a couple of weeks ago. The info sent off to the forensic accountant and my new attorney, I guess my number on the legal carousel will come up some day to move things along. Still progressing on the formal complaint against my last attorney. 

Last week my almost XW invited me with our DS14 to a Hockey game. I obviously declined. Told her it was inappropriate. Then posting a picture on FB saying it was her first Hockey game. Not! She posted a few years ago going to a game with another POSOM.

Today, she calls my office and schedules an appointment. I sent copies of all her records to her two years ago, advising her to need seek any future care through somebody else. It was inappropriate for me to continue to do so. What balls!

I guess she will forever push my boundaries, and my buttons.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Shortly before I fired my last attorney, he refiled my divorce petition, which he let lapse, due to his own non performance. I have since filed a lengthy complaint to the Bar association for this. Just yesterday, I find out from my new attorney, that there has never been an affidavit of service filed!!!!! This is six months into a new divorce petition. I have filed 3 divorce petitions form this woman and still cant seem to get it done! What the Heck!!! She left more than 3 years ago. Sees our youngest son 4 days per month. Our oldest two sons only see her on big holidays, and only when she pitches a fit. She has her own job. Pays nothing of the marital bills or debts, yet I still cant get divorced! I just don't know what to say or do anymore to get this done. What a mess this has become(ing)


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Incompetence from attorney #1 + incompetence from attorney #2 =?


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

toonaive said:


> Shortly before I fired my last attorney, he refiled my divorce petition, which he let lapse, due to his own non performance. I have since filed a lengthy complaint to the Bar association for this. Just yesterday, I find out from my new attorney, that there has never been an affidavit of service filed!!!!! This is six months into a new divorce petition. I have filed 3 divorce petitions form this woman and still cant seem to get it done! What the Heck!!! She left more than 3 years ago. Sees our youngest son 4 days per month. Our oldest two sons only see her on big holidays, and only when she pitches a fit. She has her own job. Pays nothing of the marital bills or debts, yet I still cant get divorced! I just don't know what to say or do anymore to get this done. What a mess this has become(ing)


I am starting to think that people are telling tales when they say they actually got a divorce finalized. Near as I can figure I got 2 more years before I have any chance and that is only if the judge doesn't get re-elected.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Reading through this thread brings back all the horridness of my own divorce. I agree with everything lenzi, honcho, you and others have said about these lawyers just dragging things out endlessly. It's exasperating how the case just stalls, the lawyers are unreachable, the judge does nothing, and no one even cares!

My divorce wasn't nearly as long as yours (18 months vs. your 3 years ) but man, the legal fees REALLY racked up quickly. Ex and I spent close to $150,000 on both lawyers, forensic accountants, "expert" adjunct business lawyers (what a complete waste of money -- that could have been one kid's entire college education). Granted, it was a high-asset divorce but wasting that kind of money is a sin. The lawyers take one look at your assets in the beginning, and they know exactly how long they can drag it out, exactly how much they want to rack up in fees, and then magically at the end (when they've reached that fee ceiling) everything gets settled, like _yesterday,_ and it's usually the same stupid offer that was proposed at the very beginning, minus all the d*mn money wasted on legal fees. It's an "old boys (or girls) club", they all know each other, go to lunch together, play golf together, and then pretend to be "fighting" for you.

And then, before they will take the final signed decree into the judge to get rubber-stamped, the lawyers make you sign _their own_ shyster agreement that any money you owe them comes right off the top before you ever see a dime of your settlement.

What a racket. I can't imagine being caught up in this hell for 3 years


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Ok. Looks like Attorney #2 has finally started to do something. Though only after I got after her about not perusing whether almost XW was served another divorce petition or not. This, was back in early September!!!. Maybe almost XW will move things along now that she has a new boyfriend. 4th one that I know in 3 years. Not including the ones during the last ten years of our"marriage". 

Attorney #2 blamed it on the laziness of my Attorney #1. So, guess what? Now refiling my divorce!. This time I want a police officer to deliver service. I don't care what it costs. I want to make sure somebody places the divorce petition in her sweaty hands and she signs for it. 

So now, since 2005 when I first got wind of her cheating. I have filed for divorce 4 times over the last 9 years. Why is this so hard to accomplish? She hasn't lived with us in more than 3 years. 

Cannot make this stuff up! It is so messed up.

So, along with the Bar complaint i filed against Attorney #1, im also now going for another Bar complaint disputing the fees attorney #1 charged me, that are now being duplicated by attorney #2 to move my divorce along. Im preparing for 2015 to be a bumpy year. At least something might be now happening........slowly.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

toonaive said:


> I have filed for divorce 4 times over the last 9 years. Why is this so hard to accomplish? She hasn't lived with us in more than 3 years.
> 
> Cannot make this stuff up! It is so messed up.
> 
> So, along with the Bar complaint i filed against Attorney #1, im also now going for another Bar complaint disputing the fees attorney #1 charged me,


Maybe rather than spending so much time filing Bar complaints, you keep better tabs on your attorneys to make sure they're doing what they've been asked to do.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Because Im paying then to do their jobs. Im paying them for their expertise. All of my expectations were laid out before either attorney agreed to represent me. #2 seems to be moving along slowly. #1 caused so much delay and damage, now my charges are being duplicated by renewed court requirements, and lost time.

Yes, Im going after #1. I may not get a dime back. But, at least I made an effort, and made it known that I will no longer accept that kind of treatment and be brushed aside like I dont matter. Yea, NMMNG now.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

All I'm saying is that you need to keep up on them.

Call them and bug them when they're supposed to be filing motions and make sure they do what they promise, because, despite how much they're being paid, and regardless of what they promised you when they initially consulted with you, they oftentimes don't do their jobs correctly if left on their own.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Im astounded that is how they get away with running their business that way. If I did that with mine, I would have lost my license a long time ago.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

toonaive said:


> Im astounded that is how they get away with running their business that way. If I did that with mine, I would have lost my license a long time ago.


They can because they have too much business. The less efficient they run the case the more they can make. If you get fed up and "fire" them they got another client in the waiting room.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Im keeping much closer tabs on the time line of things this time around. . Process server just called, and almost XW will get served within the next 30 min. Glad I requested this. He had her home address as her work address. DOH! I made sure this was corrected.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

How do I change the title of this thread? It is no longer about a pretrial conference. Starting the divorce process all over again. This is so screwed up.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

toonaive said:


> How do I change the title of this thread? It is no longer about a pretrial conference. Starting the divorce process all over again. This is so screwed up.


Does the "till death do us part" replay in your head over and over. Sometimes I seems growing old is quicker than divorce.


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## 845dad (May 28, 2014)

reading this thread has made me nausious. God, I'm not sure how you guys dealt with all this crap fro so long. I'm at about a year since discovery and it seems to be getting murkier and murkier, the nonsense is getting epic.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

New divorce petition with updated pleadings was filed last week. Received a call from new attorney, that XW was served in person yesterday, with her signature acknowledging receipt. 

Also received a letter from this states Bar, receiving my complaints against attorney #1 and an investigator has been assigned. 

At the very least, for the moment, things seem to be moving. She has 30 days to respond to my petition. Unfortunately, being amicable has gotten me nowhere. I'm changing my tactics. 

At least some things are moving along.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

I do hope this latest round get you some resolution. Nobody deserves this sort of "legal" foolishness
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

toonaive said:


> New divorce petition with updated pleadings was filed last week. Received a call from new attorney, that XW was served in person yesterday, with her signature acknowledging receipt.
> 
> Also received a letter from this states Bar, receiving my complaints against attorney #1 and an investigator has been assigned.
> 
> ...


Keep at it.

Nice to see things are moving and the state Bar is going to follow up. Too many of these attorneys just get away with laziness and incompetence.

You can always start a new thread with an updated title, don't think you can change the title to this one.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

After a little more than two weeks, I got her answers back. Of the 12 pleadings of my petition. 7 were admitted, 5 were denied. So, my lunch today will be spent at my attorneys office going over those. mostly about money related stuff. Nonsense arguments in my opinion. This should be interesting. Sigh!


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

First court (or 3rd, depending how you count them) appearance done. Judge ordered another mediation, this time he appointed another Judge to preside over it. Which is good, I flatly refused to use the idiot mediator we used last time. Terrible waste of money. This mediation is today at 10am. Another 5k down the drain. New attorney is convinced this is a slam dunk today. Equitable distribution figured out via forensic accountant. No alimony, due to adultery. I will get custody of youngest son. She doesn't want him living with her and only wants visitation. Lets see what happens.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Good luck


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Keeping my fingers crossed!


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Judge is now meeting with her privately to explain to her why alimony is completely out. She can't wrap her mind around it, and doesn't seem capable of accepting it as fact. Should have kept those legs shut for other men girlie.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Was child support addressed?


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

toonaive said:


> Judge is now meeting with her privately to explain to her why alimony is completely out. She can't wrap her mind around it, and doesn't seem capable of accepting it as fact. Should have kept those legs shut for other men girlie.


He will have better luck talking to a brick wall. Facts just get in the way of what they want to believe...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Everything went well last Friday. Alimony completely out. Which is nice since it would have been mid 4 figures each month. I kept on task. I wanted everything to be about money. Everything listed. She didn't want to pay child support. Sorry, Only a Judge assign that. I waved it only because, I took the same amount off her portion of the equitable settlement. This includes her car payment and insurance for the next year and half. I will work on paying that off early. Caught her hiding money. About 40k total! She quit her last job making 70k plus bonus' in favor of one paying 30k no bonus. Shortly before she quit that job, she funneled her last bonus checks into her 401k. Sorry, I wasn't born yesterday. She started out wanting alimony, 100k extra, her car paid off with insurance paid until it is. NO child support payments, her attorney fees paid, and the house. 

She got her attorney fees paid 6k, and 15k, and she got to keep the 40k only because I took it all off the equitable distribution. All in all, after all the mess, 3.5 years litigation. I am done. I am very satisfied with the result. I knew she was hiding money, I just needed to prove it. I stuck with it, and made sure it was all laid out on the table. I don't think she got away with anything. In the end, I wanted to show, and know, who she really is now. She signed off on everything, and quickly exited the office. Final court signing will either be later this week or next. She isnt going to be there. In the end, my feelings were bittersweet. It wasn't a victory, nor a defeat. Kind of odd. 

Oh, and I forgot, I got custody of my youngest son. His two brothers are over 18. I also got the house.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

:toast:

Not for the "win" but for your resilience.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> :toast:
> 
> Not for the "win" but for your resilience.


Yea, Judge/Mediator could not believe that it had gone on this long. It really wasn't that difficult. No alimony, she didn't want custody, only visitation, The rest was just debts/assets. Thankfully, the value of my business is mostly goodwill. She is barred in this state from going after that. The longest part of the day was taken up by educating XW about her incorrect stance on alimony. A lengthy PI report, showing that she was dating 3 men at the same time took care of that. She had no idea of all the years information I had on her concerning that. 

My entire divorce case files, filled up 4 cardboard storage boxes. Used a dolly to wheel them around. The visual was awesome!


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

toonaive said:


> Yea, Judge/Mediator could not believe that it had gone on this long. It really wasn't that difficult. No alimony, she didn't want custody, only visitation, The rest was just debts/assets. Thankfully, the value of my business is mostly goodwill. She is barred in this state from going after that. The longest part of the day was taken up by educating XW about her incorrect stance on alimony. A lengthy PI report, showing that she was dating 3 men at the same time took care of that. She had no idea of all the years information I had on her concerning that.
> 
> My entire divorce case files, filled up 4 cardboard storage boxes. Used a dolly to wheel them around. The visual was awesome!


Nothing quite like a speedy amicable divorce. Congratulations on finally getting a settlement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Yea, retrospectively, XW was the one who kept saying she wanted to make it amicable. Amicable meant, every going thing her way. But, I wasn't the one cheating, and hiding money. She had no clue the information I accumulated over the years. She is a liar and a thief. That was the bottom line. She cannot be trusted. I finally listened to my inner voice, and stuck with what I felt was a logical strategy. Letting the numbers do all the talking. When they didn't add up, I wanted a paper trail. She received what the law allowed, based on her behavior and circumstances.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

toonaive said:


> Yea, retrospectively, XW was the one who kept saying she wanted to make it amicable. Amicable meant, every going thing her way. But, I wasn't the one cheating, and hiding money. She had no clue the information I accumulated over the years. She is a liar and a thief. That was the bottom line. She cannot be trusted. I finally listened to my inner voice, and stuck with what I felt was a logical strategy. Letting the numbers do all the talking. When they didn't add up, I wanted a paper trail. She received what the law allowed, based on her behavior and circumstances.


I got the same, she wants amicable as long as she gets everything and then add some more. I got the same paper trail and my lawyer has had the "secret" account info for a long time. 

If I could ever get in front of someone willing to see the info it will go much like yours. Its amazing how far they push just to "lose". Greed and denial sure make them do strange stupid things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Its been a week since the last and final court appearance. Divorce finalized, though, she does have 30 days to contest anything. I don't think she will. I have received all final papers in the mail. I have also received a filed copy of her last service, and her decision not to attend that last court appearance. Not sure why, but it might have had something to do with her requesting alimony. The judge made a big point that I earn a good bit more than she does. My attorney interjected that I also retain all the marital debts, and presented original copies of PI reports going back many, many, many years. With that presented, and examined, by the Judge, witnesses in court. Alimony completely out. This information was presented to her at the last mediation for her examination. 

She got what she originally wanted. Her single life back, so she can work on a do over. Or, whatever strikes her fancy I guess. I dont recognize this person I spend more than 20 years with. My sons don't either. I have full custody of our youngest, since the other two are older. 

Not sure how I feel about all of this. Maybe just a little bewildered and tired. It has been a very expensive, stressful 3.5 years. Time for me to focus on more productive endeavors. I am happy for that, but, there are many challenges that remain ahead. Im not afraid of challenges. Whew!


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

TN, even though you emotionally detached from the relationship, its still ok to grieve the loss of a marriage. Geez you spent two decades as part of a couple, now you're single. Just that psychic change takes a bit of an adjustment. Right after my divorce was final I found myself suddenly noticing every couple when I was out. Not anymore. Its a process just like everything else.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

After reading your thread, I can see why so many people refuse to get M again.

My D was 60 days, cost $184 (DIY), and since she was so "miserable" I forced her into

paying for it. I kept the house, rental properties, vehicles. Also told her I had three aces up my sleeve

and never said another word about them. She caved.....


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Congrats, Toon! You are a true survivor, Sir!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Thanks for the support. Everything is going well. Restructuring financial stuff, getting all the ducks in a row. Things have been better for me than in many many years. The only real issue now is my XW getting irrational concerning our son. Seeing her for who she really is. Even though we are divorced, she still tries to control my life. Wish she would just move far away. I have to throw roadblocks up all the time. Yet she still pushes. I was so numb to it all.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Wow - read this all just now. My divorce was quick and easy; it was custody that drug out and went to court twice. I have to say I had a good experience with my attorneys here in NC. The returned calls in a reasonable time and always scheduled calls to go over the next step(s). Sorry both of yours required so much pushing.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

toonaive said:


> The only real issue now is my XW getting irrational concerning our son. Seeing her for who she really is. Even though we are divorced, she still tries to control my life.


Notice her victim speak..... she always directs it at you

she hopes to throw crumbs to you and you treat it like a cake

this has been her behavior since before DDay....right?

This should not surprise you at all.


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