# In Need of Advice---At My Wit's End!



## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

I'm new here. (obviously) 

I cannot really talk about my situation to my husband, because he shuts down.

I cannot talk to my family, because I don't want them to treat my husband any differently.

I cannot talk to my friends, because they think I have a perfect life, and any time I complain they tell me how bad their own situations are.

So I am here. Reaching out to complete strangers for some sort of help, guidance, or advice.

At any rate, my husband and I got married very young, I was 19 and he was 20. We have been married for almost 8 years. Just recently, he revealed to me that he had a physical and emotional affair. I never suspected anything, never saw it coming. He literally sat down to use the bathroom one day (TMI) and out of the blue, he confessed to kissing another girl. I was initially upset, but then I started to wonder why he would confess something like that so randomly. Long story short, he eventually admitted to doing a lot more than kissing her. I would ask for details (who is she, where did you know her from, etc.) and he would act as though his memory was just so horrible. Finally, I asked him to just write down what he remembers, that way he wouldn't feel like I was putting him on the spot. 

He ended up writing out about 4 pages of his adulterous acts, some dating back to before we were married. He even admitted to snooping through my own sister's drawers and looking for her sex toys (she was out of town, and I had sent him to her house to get a pacifier for my youngest). I have no clue what he did when he found them, and I don't want to know. He admitted to having inappropriate thoughts about her and other women. 

The one actual affair he had stemmed from work. He works at a call center, and it employs 85% women. He admitted to me that in his leadership roles he has shown favoritism to at least one employee. He adds women from work to Facebook, and then flirts with them (in my opinion). He texts them, and the things he texts are not necessarily inappropriate, I just don't see the need for it. He has no respect for boundaries, and when I bring them up he gets defensive. 

That's a little bit of background, I could write even more things but I won't for fear that no one will read. 

Where I'm at today, is I just don't know what to believe. I don't know how, or if, I can move past all of this. I feel like the deception was carried out so perfectly, that next time he could hide it even longer. I wonder what he's doing at work? Who he's thinking about during sex? Is he really going where he says he is? I NEVER in a million years thought he would be the type to cheat. All of these insecurities are new to me, and I think they are magnified because of how good of a liar this man I thought I knew turned out to be.

Are the things I feel normal? Do my insecurities and doubts, coupled with his deception, make this relationship irreparable? 

I appreciate anything anyone can say that will help. Before anyone asks why don't I just leave, let me tell ya. It's not that easy. I've just recently got my Masters degree, but I have absolutely no work experience. It's hard for me to find a job, so I depend on my husband for everything. I'm looking for work, and I think if I had a job the situation would already be over. Also, I don't want to break my kids' hearts, and I know a divorce would do that.

Help?


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## Dewy (Aug 29, 2012)

what consequences have you imposed on him, If none then he will cheat again or he is now cheating


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

first i feel you need to decide if this is what you want ? to be married to him or not depending upon that decision their are steps to take to either recover or get a divorce


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Some details would help. Your respective ages, length of relationship and marriage, number of kids and ages.

Also, what is he doing to show remorse? Anything? Is he transparent, has he agreed to not contact the women? Is the stuff with Facebook and the like ongoing, or in the past? Why did he confess? Was it out of guilt, or because someone else was going to tell you?


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

First of all, congratulations on your masters degree.
Are the things I feel normal? Do my insecurities and doubts, coupled with his deception, make this relationship irreparable?

The things you're feeling are absolutely normal, and on the days to come you will experience many others. The phases of coping of betrayal can seem overwhelming sometimes, but know that time will make you cope with it. Good thing that time is always moving forward.

The insecuritie and doubts are very normal. You'll feel not good enough, you'll feel as if you failed, you'll feel all sorts of things.

What makes the relationship irreparable, should you want to fix it, is the lack of his will to save it. For you to begin wanting to fix it, so you can remain with him forever and not until you'll land on your feet, he must show remorse, sorrow and regret.

Those three emotions are by no mean sufficient to heal the shock and the depression, but they will constitute a basis for you to work on the trust issues that arised, and for him to not slip again.

Sometimes it's hard to get these three emotions from a partner, sometimes, they are there but not in the right way.

Your husband has a lot of issues obviously, and one of them, in my opinion, is that he seeks female validation and attention. This will only lead to affairs.

Don't hold back any details, I promise that me and others will read your posts integrally.

First of all, do you feel that you want to be with him ? If yes.
Did he show the three emotions ? Did he ask you to forgive him ? Did he accept to go in a full transparency mode ?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

First yes, everything your feeling is perfectly normal and 'on script' for a person that was been recently betrayed.



Kathy Jackson said:


> Before anyone asks why don't I just leave, let me tell ya. It's not that easy. I've just recently got my Masters degree, but I have absolutely no work experience. It's hard for me to find a job, so I depend on my husband for everything. I'm looking for work, and I think if I had a job the situation would already be over.


You answered many of your own questions with crystal clarity right there. 



Kathy Jackson said:


> Also, I don't want to break my kids' hearts, and I know a divorce would do that.
> Help?


Your children are developing, you and your husband are the blueprint they will emulate as they grow older. Particularly in relationships. The broken hearts are minor compared to the longterm damage caused by raising your children in a dysfunctional household with a cheating husband.


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Some details would help. Your respective ages, length of relationship and marriage, number of kids and ages.
> 
> Also, what is he doing to show remorse? Anything? Is he transparent, has he agreed to not contact the women? Is the stuff with Facebook and the like ongoing, or in the past? Why did he confess? Was it out of guilt, or because someone else was going to tell you?


I'm 27 he is 28. We have a 6 year old son and 2 year old daughter. The marriage is 7 years, 8 in February. 

He has apologized, but that's it. He just told me out of the blue. I had no idea, and didn't know anyone who could have known except his mother. The Facebook stuff is ongoing, and he still works in the same place. The woman he had the affair with no longer works there. Shortly after their affair, the company downsized. He has told me that if it were not for the layoff the affair would have continued.


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

Dewy said:


> what consequences have you imposed on him, If none then he will cheat again or he is now cheating


I need help with this. I don't know what consequences I could impose? I mean, he is an adult, and if I push too hard I feel like he might pull away even further?

To this point, he's only apologized. He has not been willing to sit down and set explicit boundaries.


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

In_The_Wind said:


> first i feel you need to decide if this is what you want ? to be married to him or not depending upon that decision their are steps to take to either recover or get a divorce


I'm torn. I don't want to be part of the divorce statistic (no offense to anyone) and I want my children to have both of their parents. 

At the same time, I don't want to feel stupid like this later down the line. Like if I let this go, I'm feeling like it gives him a green light.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

It sounds like you would divorce if money was not an issue and of course the kids.

You have to decide if you want to R. If you do you need to know who she was and confront and expose. He needs to be remorseful and it sounds like he is not. Read up on the 180. I would also consider filing for D, you do not have to go through with it but he needs to know you are deadly serious.

How long ago was the A? Do you have concerns for STD's or he may have fathered a kid?

If he is not begging to fix things and never do it again and willing to spend a life time to make things up to you. There is no chance for an R.

The woman he was involved with does she still work with him? If yes he needs to find a new job right now.


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

Spunoh said:


> First of all, congratulations on your masters degree.
> Are the things I feel normal? Do my insecurities and doubts, coupled with his deception, make this relationship irreparable?
> 
> The things you're feeling are absolutely normal, and on the days to come you will experience many others. The phases of coping of betrayal can seem overwhelming sometimes, but know that time will make you cope with it. Good thing that time is always moving forward.
> ...


Thank you. I want to be with him---I think. I'm sorry I don't have a clear answer. I don't know if I want to be with him or if I want to be married and not divorced. If that makes sense. 

He has asked me to forgive, and to some degree he has shown remorse, sorrow and regret. I feel like I had to force those things out of him though. When he told me about the affair, he literally said I kissed a girl 4 years ago and that was it. He wouldn't tell me her name, I had to do some Facebook snooping to find it. Then when I texted him a picture of her, he responded by saying "what's that supposed to be?" 

He has been fully transparent to the extent that he wants to be. Like I said he wrote out 4 pages of adulterous acts, but the situations would always go a little too far but not over the line. For example, he would get a girl's number, call her, and then back out. Or he would call her, hang out, but if she tried anything, he would leave. I have a hard time believing or trusting his "transparency".


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> First yes, everything your feeling is perfectly normal and 'on script' for a person that was been recently betrayed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree that I answered my own question, but then I feel like walking away would be unfair to him. He worked and allowed me to get two degrees and be a stay at home mom---then the minute I get on my feet I leave. It's confusing to explain. If I had a job, I would have more options. To leave now would be to take 2 kids and live with a relative---uprooting myself and my kids from the lifestyle we are used to.


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

mahike said:


> It sounds like you would divorce if money was not an issue and of course the kids.
> 
> You have to decide if you want to R. If you do you need to know who she was and confront and expose. He needs to be remorseful and it sounds like he is not. Read up on the 180. I would also consider filing for D, you do not have to go through with it but he needs to know you are deadly serious.
> 
> ...


I'm assuming that R=reconciliation?

Not sure what the 180 is either. 

The affair was 4 years ago, he did things more recently though. OH, I forgot one of the most important things, he also had an eharmony account. He told me he only registered because he was "curious". She no longer works there. But there are others...sadly.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Kathy Jackson said:


> I'm torn. I don't want to be part of the divorce statistic (no offense to anyone) and I want my children to have both of their parents.
> 
> At the same time, I don't want to feel stupid like this later down the line. Like if I let this go, I'm feeling like it gives him a green light.


I used this phrase in another thread recently, but you have a tiger by the tail here.

If you do not set boundaries, he will carry on as he has done.

Although he has at least seemingly told you much about his infidelity I am wondering why given that there seems little real remorse behind it.

You firstly need to decide what you will accept and what you won't.

Don't forget that, although most - if not all - of us on here have experience one side of the infidelity coin we are not "experts". Only you know what is right for you.

Understand this: if he will not accept boundaries that is because he does not want to be bound by them. This means that he will almost certainly cheat again - if he is not doing already.

I think others will suggest this, but you might think about a 2 stage process:

1) Try to find out more information without him knowing. The favourite is a voice activated recorder in the car and a keylogger on his PC.

2) Tell him the boundaries YOU NEED for the relationship to work.

There might be an argument for you allowing him to keep his Facebook account if you can install a keylogger first, as this might give you a better picture of what he is and has been up to.

You are not alone. Keep posting - the people on here genuinely care about you even if we will not agree on the right way forward sometimes


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

OK, you need to put your foot down. Hard. He cheated. He CHEATED on you. What did you do to deserve that? the answer is - NOTHING. It is ALL on him. He is a liar and a cheat, and from what you write he has every intention of just keeping it up despite what you think or say or do.

You need to get tested for STD's.

So, if I were you, I would tell him he has five minutes to pack a bag and to get the hell out. Where he goes you do not care. Just OUT. Away from you. You will NOT put up with this behaviour. It is UNACCEPTABLE.

Then, If after a week or a month you feel like you want to talk to him again, he will have to PROVE to you that he is done cheating. That will include but is not limited to giving you all his passwords for email, facebook, bank accounts, cell phones etc, letting you see everything you want to on any of his accounts anywhere at any time, showing you his phone immediately whenever you tell him to. He must get tested for STD's and show you the results in writing, or better yet take you to the results appt. He must tell you EVERYTHING and leave nothing out, and he must prove what he says, via polygraph if that's what you want.

Please don't let him call the shots here. Take the bull by the horns. Kicking him out doesn't mean it's over - read my story if you don't believe me. Kicking my husband out was exactly what he needed.


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

Every time I bring up the boundary issue---regarding the women at work or my mother in law---a huge argument erupts. He gets defensive of his own actions or he defends the other person's actions.

I usually let it go at that, because I really can't force him to accept boundaries. He will just say I'm jealous or paranoid. I explain that I just found out something that turned my world upside down, of course I'm a bit paranoid! 

I have thought of typing up the boundaries and presenting it as like a contract, but I shouldn't have to. Our vows set crystal clear boundaries, and he disregarded the vows altogether with no second thoughts. 

I really appreciate you all responding. It feels good to vent here without being yelled at lol


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Kathy Jackson said:


> Every time I bring up the boundary issue---regarding the women at work or my mother in law---a huge argument erupts. He gets defensive of his own actions or he defends the other person's actions.
> 
> I usually let it go at that, because I really can't force him to accept boundaries. He will just say I'm jealous or paranoid. I explain that I just found out something that turned my world upside down, of course I'm a bit paranoid!
> 
> ...


This is my point. He will push and push until one of you gives in.

I describe this to my wayward wife as "playing chicken with our marriage". 

Until you show you are serious then he will walk all over you. He is showing you massive disrespect.

It might be that you *have* to "go nuclear" and accept that your life and your children's life will change for ever - HE DID THIS NOT YOU.

You have to be strong. Many of us here have had to call our spouse's bluff. That could be by filing for divorce, or it could be by withdrawing your affection.

Do something. If you do not both you and your children will regret it.


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> OK, you need to put your foot down. Hard. He cheated. He CHEATED on you. What did you do to deserve that? the answer is - NOTHING. It is ALL on him. He is a liar and a cheat, and from what you write he has every intention of just keeping it up despite what you think or say or do.
> 
> You need to get tested for STD's.
> 
> ...


I have been tested for STD's so there's no worries there. I can't kick him out, I actually tried. I said you have got to go, but he said that I need to go because he pays the bills. 

Another reason I say that if I had a job the situation might be different. 

I have all of the passwords, and have since pretty much the beginning. He has a little smartphone though, and I suspect he does much of his dirt there. Also, the affair happened at work---he didn't need to call her he would just see her every day and make plans. If he did need to call her, he has admitted to using a pay phone, or he would start an argument with me, then when I would leave he would call from the house phone (no way to track that). For bank records, there are ATM withdrawals, but if I ask about those he says he had to pull money out because the cafeteria at his job doesn't accept credit/debit cards.

This is all so much to deal with. I'm telling you guys, he is an expert at this whole affair thing. I cannot let myself believe that he had done it before because I think I would really lose my mind!


As I type these things out, I realize just how much he had me fooled.


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## Bentley'sMom (Jul 10, 2012)

'For example, he would get a girl's number, call her, and then back out. Or he would call her, hang out, but if she tried anything, he would leave'

He seriously said that? That's not transparency that is down playing something much more. Or trickle truthing. I personally would question why he felt the need to get girl's numbers as that is cheating in my view, but I hate to tell you, he did not leave when they 'tried something'. He sounds like a serial cheater, I'm sorry.


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> This is my point. He will push and push until one of you gives in.
> 
> I describe this to my wayward wife as "playing chicken with our marriage".
> 
> ...


Eek, the only thing about going nuclear, is that I think he might just let it go. For him it would be so much easier to start over. If I call his bluff, it might backfire. Then I would be the one "playing chicken" in a sense. 

I did google "irreconcilable differences" and leave it up on the screen so he would see it. He just ignored me for the next week. I get what you're saying though. Drastic times call for drastic measures.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Kathy Jackson said:


> I'm new here. (obviously)
> 
> I cannot really talk about my situation to my husband, because he shuts down.
> 
> ...


I would first kick him out of the house. You don't get to stay at home with all that crap. Not only is he a cheater but he abuses his role at work to try to attract women. INother words he is a giant walking lawsuit. He is a serial cheater and this perfect life was all a lie. He cheated before, and during your marriage. He probably came clean because of long term guilt or one of his AP was blackmailing him. 

AT this point he needs to leave the house. There really is not point in trying to instigate a NC since he probably has several AP going on right now. 
I think it prudent that you send these letters you his family, your family, and tell his friends and inform his HR department at work. I would not spend another minute around him until you can wrap you head around all of this. You and he both need to have STD screens run immediately. 
I am sorry your H turned out to be a liar and a cheat. However that is exactly what he is. The sooner you accept that the sooner you can start worrying about yourself. IF you have not please read "the 180" and then follow it to the T. 
Don't give this guy another chance. This maybe your first DDAy but this is his probably 6th ea/pa. I think you should focus on you right now. If he won't leave you take the kids and go. Stay with parents or whomever will have you. 

This guy is not your husband anymore. He seems narcissistic and shows no remorse. He should be groveling trying to make you take him back. You shouldn't be trying to present boundaries. You should be leaving him in your dust. This man is not your husband. He never was you were a convenience to him. He got to go sleep around and when the relationship failed he could just come home and be with you. This is a long term serial cheater not a one time guy.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Wow, he sounds like SUCH an *******. 

If he won't move out, then quit interacting with him. Quit cooking for him, quit doing his laundry, quit talking to him. Move his stuff into the spare room and refuse to have sex. Withdraw. Meanwhile do some stuff for yourself. Get a pedi, buy some new clothes, go for a walk every day, take up a hobby. Be HAPPY. That will piss him right off.

And all the while, be planning your exit strategy, because he isn't going to change.


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

Bentley'sMom said:


> 'For example, he would get a girl's number, call her, and then back out. Or he would call her, hang out, but if she tried anything, he would leave'
> 
> He seriously said that? That's not transparency that is down playing something much more. Or trickle truthing. I personally would question why he felt the need to get girl's numbers as that is cheating in my view, but I hate to tell you, he did not leave when they 'tried something'. He sounds like a serial cheater, I'm sorry.


Yes he really said that. He typed it. Which is even worse, because he had time to erase it and come up with something better.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

And your kids will be SO much better off not living under the same roof as that liar. SO much better off. If they're boys, he's setting a horrible example for them, and if they're girls, you are. Getting away from this jerk is one of the best things you could do for your kids.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Kathy Jackson said:


> Eek, the only thing about going nuclear, is that I think he might just let it go. For him it would be so much easier to start over. If I call his bluff, it might backfire. Then I would be the one "playing chicken" in a sense.
> 
> I did google "irreconcilable differences" and leave it up on the screen so he would see it. He just ignored me for the next week. I get what you're saying though. Drastic times call for drastic measures.


If this is true, do you really want to be married to him? If he thinks being single is so much better, you may be better off with him.

Don't worry about him paying for your degrees. He voided any claim to that when he cheated. Also, don't feel bad about not know what you want. This is an awful time for you, so take the time you need to make the best decision.

Demand to see his smart phone. He does not get any more secrets.

Also search these forums for the 180. It is a technique for you to protect yourself and help you start withdrawing. While it sometimes can cause a wayward spouse to wake up and try to get you back, that is not its real purpose. The real purpose is to get you strong and help you detach. Based on his behavior and unwillingness to be truly remorseful, I think the 180 would be very helpful to you.


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Wow, he sounds like SUCH an *******.
> 
> If he won't move out, then quit interacting with him. Quit cooking for him, quit doing his laundry, quit talking to him. Move his stuff into the spare room and refuse to have sex. Withdraw. Meanwhile do some stuff for yourself. Get a pedi, buy some new clothes, go for a walk every day, take up a hobby. Be HAPPY. That will piss him right off.
> 
> And all the while, be planning your exit strategy, because he isn't going to change.


I've tried not interacting, but for me it's easier said than done. I'm at home with a 2 year old all day. When he gets home, I need adult conversation. Your advice is something I'm going to try to implement. Being happy, that is. It will all be fake in the beginning, but hopefully as time goes on it will be true feelings.

As far as not having sex---he'll look at porn right in front of my face if I do that. Porn is a whole different issue with him. It bugs the hell out of me, but I know he's a man and I guess that's what they do.


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> If this is true, do you really want to be married to him? If he thinks being single is so much better, you may be better off with him.
> 
> Don't worry about him paying for your degrees. He voided any claim to that when he cheated. Also, don't feel bad about not know what you want. This is an awful time for you, so take the time you need to make the best decision.
> 
> ...


By start over, I'm not saying he thinks being single is better. He would just have a clean slate with someone else kinda thing. I know all the bad things about him, but the next woman would be as naive as I was until now. I think that's appealing to him. Well, more appealing than living with what he has done in this relationship.

I'm going to look at the 180 it's been mentioned several times. Thanks for that.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Kathy Jackson said:


> Yes he really said that. He typed it. Which is even worse, because he had time to erase it and come up with something better.


There might not be enough to go on here, but it sounds like he is enjoying doing this to you.

I can't think what to say other than if you don't show that you will go one step further than him, he will "own" you for the rest of your life.

If you can accept that, fine - but think about what that really means. Think about the life you have in store. You are still very young. You have plenty of time.

It sounds to me like you need to do something.

Check back on my posts - and my story - I am a real soft touch but your husband sounds like a dangerous person indeed and drastic times call for drastic measures.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Holy crap, the more you type the madder I am getting. This guy is a real piece of work. He has you completely cowed too.

You need to tell everyone you can think of what he did. his family, yours, his work EVERYone. I am not always a proponent of exposure, but this guy is just begging to have his life turned upside down. You need someone to help you do it too. Are you seeing a counselor?


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Kathy Jackson said:


> I've tried not interacting, but for me it's easier said than done. I'm at home with a 2 year old all day. When he gets home, I need adult conversation. Your advice is something I'm going to try to implement. Being happy, that is. It will all be fake in the beginning, but hopefully as time goes on it will be true feelings.
> 
> As far as not having sex---he'll look at porn right in front of my face if I do that. Porn is a whole different issue with him. It bugs the hell out of me, but I know he's a man and I guess that's what they do.


No we don't. It's about respect. Maybe a lot of men use it, but NOT IN FRONT OF THEIR WIVES.

He is absolutely disrespecting you and he knows it.


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## Bentley'sMom (Jul 10, 2012)

So sorry Kathy, I thought my husband just had one affair that broke up our marriage, but found out he had cheated before (the week before our wedding!) and probably other times, and I was in shock as I thought he was an upright honest guy - comnpletely the opposite and I was fooled for years. It is difficult, but I am a few months down the line and feel better for being away from him. I now just feel disgust.

He will lie, he will underplay things, you need to decide if you want him in your life, give yourself some time to think, and see if his cheating is a deal breaker. You will probably have days when you think it is, and some when you miss your old life but think really honestly - do you want this type of man (if he shows real remorse) or will is his lack of love and respect for you more than you are willing to accept in life


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> There might not be enough to go on here, but it sounds like he is enjoying doing this to you.
> 
> I can't think what to say other than if you don't show that you will go one step further than him, he will "own" you for the rest of your life.
> 
> ...


Ya know, I always tell him he has the upper hand in this marriage. So you're right there. He knows that the thought of "starting over" for me is dreadful. I want to go a step further, but my options are limited at the current time. I'm going to read your story here in a few.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Sorry you are here. You are getting good advice and I can't add to it. Time is on your side and you have time to work through this sucky situation. See what you can do to get support. You need it. I know how hard it is when you have little ones. Can you get a sitter and get some me time?


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Holy crap, the more you type the madder I am getting. This guy is a real piece of work. He has you completely cowed too.
> 
> You need to tell everyone you can think of what he did. his family, yours, his work EVERYone. I am not always a proponent of exposure, but this guy is just begging to have his life turned upside down. You need someone to help you do it too. Are you seeing a counselor?


Yeah, the more I type and the more details I divulge, I'm getting a clearer picture in my own mind. 

I can't tell everyone at this point, because that would probably leave him jobless and my family homeless. 

We are not seeing a counselor. I guess we should consider it, but if he can't be open and honest with me, what are the odds he will be with a complete stranger?


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> Sorry you are here. You are getting good advice and I can't add to it. Time is on your side and you have time to work through this sucky situation. See what you can do to get support. You need it. I know how hard it is when you have little ones. Can you get a sitter and get some me time?


I can get me time, but I would spend that focused on this situation. I need to learn to think about other things, but this has really hit me hard. I feel so stupid. I'm really smart though. Ironically, I missed what was going on right in front of my face.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I didn't say you and him should see one, I meant just you. I totally agree with you that it would be a total waste for him.

Stop thinking that you and he are a pair. You aren't. He has destroyed that by his actions. You are YOU, strong and happy and INDEPENDENT. You do NOT need him.

As for being homeless, if you left him wouldn't you get welfare? I've been on welfare myself, and it's far preferable to being married to a selfish lying cheating jerk.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Kathy Jackson said:


> Yeah, the more I type and the more details I divulge, I'm getting a clearer picture in my own mind.
> 
> I can't tell everyone at this point, because that would probably leave him jobless and my family homeless.
> 
> We are not seeing a counselor. I guess we should consider it, but if he can't be open and honest with me, what are the odds he will be with a complete stranger?


My experience would back up your thoughts on this; he will play to the counsellor as though he is a victim somehow and lie through his teeth. It might help if you can get someone to talk to though.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Kathy Jackson said:


> I'm torn. I don't want to be part of the divorce statistic (no offense to anyone) and I want my children to have both of their parents.
> 
> At the same time, I don't want to feel stupid like this later down the line. Like if I let this go, I'm feeling like it gives him a green light.


When he cheats he cheats on you AND your children...


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> When he cheats he cheats on you AND your children...


great point.


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

Kathy Jackson said:


> Thank you. I want to be with him---I think. I'm sorry I don't have a clear answer. I don't know if I want to be with him or if I want to be married and not divorced. If that makes sense.
> 
> He has asked me to forgive, and to some degree he has shown remorse, sorrow and regret. I feel like I had to force those things out of him though. When he told me about the affair, he literally said I kissed a girl 4 years ago and that was it. He wouldn't tell me her name, I had to do some Facebook snooping to find it. Then when I texted him a picture of her, he responded by saying "what's that supposed to be?"
> 
> He has been fully transparent to the extent that he wants to be. Like I said he wrote out 4 pages of adulterous acts, but the situations would always go a little too far but not over the line. For example, he would get a girl's number, call her, and then back out. Or he would call her, hang out, but if she tried anything, he would leave. I have a hard time believing or trusting his "transparency".


I think I understand what you mean by not wanting to divorce him.
A common thing on some cheaters, they wouldn't want to admit easily what they've done.

What you said you read on the adulterous 4 pages confirmed my guess. He seeks a validation of the other gender. This might call for serious therapy.

You don't have to trust his transparency, but you have the right to demand actions.
1 - Full access to his email, facebook and phone bills.
2 - Constant notification of his whereabouts.
3 - No contact anymore with the girls he had flirted with and no contact with any girl you don't feel safe to have her around him.
If he agrees to these terms and shows will to comply, there's still a chance to redeem himself.

Don't stick with him out of guilt or fear of being alone, though. It's better to be a kid of two happy divorced parents, than to be a kid of a dysfunctional household.

He must understand that he has no right to ask you to forgive him, he must undertake actions to prove to you that he's worthy of forgiveness.

Some people need time to admit their wrong, some people won't even admit it. It's up to you to know in which category he falls through his actions.

I know how you feel. Being overwhelmed by all these decisions you have to make, which you didn't ask for. But this phase of your life will determine your future and it will proves to you what you are.

Any additional details will be welcomed so we can see clearer.


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> I didn't say you and him should see one, I meant just you. I totally agree with you that it would be a total waste for him.
> 
> Stop thinking that you and he are a pair. You aren't. He has destroyed that by his actions. You are YOU, strong and happy and INDEPENDENT. You do NOT need him.
> 
> As for being homeless, if you left him wouldn't you get welfare? I've been on welfare myself, and it's far preferable to being married to a selfish lying cheating jerk.


I know. I hope to grasp that SOONER rather than later. We are two separate people. His actions don't define me...but I let them.

Welfare would be an option I suppose. He gets to cheat and I suffer all of the consequences though. He loses nothing, but I lose everything. That's the way I think about it, probably not the right way or the healthy way, but I can't help it.


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

removed


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You aren't losing. You're gaining your self respect, your dignity, your SELF. The things you're losing are only material things. Besides, he'd be ordered to pay child support - get a good lawyer and that could very well make his life miserable. If he doesn't dodge it, which he probably would, but that also carries it's own consequences. And you wouldn't be on welfare forever - you have a masters degree right? I had a bachelors when I left my first husband the first time and went on it, and I had a great job a month later. The second time, I had just had another baby, so it took me 11 months to get a job and 4 years to get completely off. Anyway, what I am trying to say is, it's temporary.


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

Spunoh said:


> I think I understand what you mean by not wanting to divorce him.
> A common thing on some cheaters, they wouldn't want to admit easily what they've done.
> 
> What you said you read on the adulterous 4 pages confirmed my guess. He seeks a validation of the other gender. This might call for serious therapy.
> ...


Yes on the validation front. I try to validate him though, but it's like he needs other people to make him feel wanted or accepted.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> I did google "irreconcilable differences" and leave it up on the screen so he would see it. He just ignored me for the next week


This, the defensiveness, the flippant way he disclosed, more things from your post point out he's totally passive agressive. Very bad kews, they are not fit for reconciliations.


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

Acabado said:


> This, the defensiveness, the flippant way he disclosed, more things from your post point out he's totally passive agressive. Very bad kews, they are not fit for reconciliations.


yikes.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Are the things I feel normal? Do my insecurities and doubts, coupled with his deception, make this relationship irreparable?
> 
> I appreciate anything anyone can say that will help. Before anyone asks why don't I just leave, let me tell ya. It's not that easy. I've just recently got my Masters degree, but I have absolutely no work experience. It's hard for me to find a job, so I depend on my husband for everything. I'm looking for work, and I think if I had a job the situation would already be over. Also, I don't want to break my kids' hearts, and I know a divorce would do that.
> Help?


I know that your husband is twisted but do not know exactly why. My guess would be that one reason that he is doing what he is doing is too try and fill a hole in his own personhood. He also seems to like to tell how he rejects that other woman; like he gets off on her wanting him but he does not need her.

Actually if he would go to counseling then maybe there is some hope. Don’t worry about his abilities to fool people; a good counselor will see right through him. You were fooled because you are a decent person that does not think like your husband. I am sorry that a trusting good woman like you had to get burned by your twisted husband. Don’t put yourself down as being stupid or anything like that. What you are is a good woman that trusted.

While you are waiting to see if he is going to change or if you can find some way to make your marriage better, *get a PLAN! *By what you wrote so far it seems that you are not ready to get him out of your life and start a new life. Also you said, *“I depend on my husband for everything.”* That has got to change! Being in the situation where he has almost all the power and you have very little is absolutely disastrous when you have a twisted husband.

You have a masters degree so you have a very good start. Get a job and do as much self improvement as you can. It may even take a few years but you need to build yourself up in every way. Don’t buy into the idea that you are being selfish. With your plan you will become a better mother for your children as you will no longer be in such fear of what your husband may do. In addition you will be a much better you.

With the way things are now your husband may all but destroy you if he does not change for the better. You are in a very disadvantaged state right now financially and emotionally but that can definitely change and it should. You will have to work at your plan and be patient. You will also be suffering if your husband does not change but what do you have to loose by working the plan? *Your husband is already making you suffer so you might as well start getting yourself in a much better position.*

By you getting stronger in all areas including financial and emotional you will be much better with your husband or without him. So will your children.

*Kathy jut remember that you are a good woman that trusted and that you are not the one with a twisted mind*.


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## Kathy Jackson (Aug 29, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> I know that your husband is twisted but do not know exactly why. My guess would be that one reason that he is doing what he is doing is too try and fill a hole in his own personhood. He also seems to like to tell how he rejects that other woman; like he gets off on her wanting him but he does not need her.
> 
> Actually if he would go to counseling then maybe there is some hope. Don’t worry about his abilities to fool people; a good counselor will see right through him. You were fooled because you are a decent person that does not think like your husband. I am sorry that a trusting good woman like you had to get burned by your twisted husband. Don’t put yourself down as being stupid or anything like that. What you are is a good woman that trusted.
> 
> ...


THANK YOU. Gosh all of what you just said is wonderful, and it feels good to hear the helpful things that I have here. I came across a post while searching for the 180---which I am fully prepared to start doing tomorrow---and I realized that my husband is not remorseful AT ALL. 

Even when telling me the details about his various infidelities, he would have a smirk on his face. Other times he would openly laugh. I would say "what' funny, I can't find anything to smile about" and he would blame his laughter on my facial expression or the way I'm looking at him. 

He refused to tell me the full story when I asked for it. It took about 2-3 weeks for me to get the 4 page written explanation, and even after the written explanation, he ended up having to tell the whole truth about the actual affair. 

I'm realizing that he isn't remorseful, but it's weird because he is the one who chose to tell me about the affair. I would never have known if he didn't divulge that info to me. Now I'm racking my brain trying to figure out why he told me. The timing has never sat right with me. It was 2 weeks after I graduated, 2 days after my son graduated kindergarten, and 4 days before we were heading on a vacation with my mother, sister, and our family.

This forum is SO helpful.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Like someone else pointed out, he may have told you because someone else (an OW, a friend, an OWH) threatened to tell you. Or he may just be getting worse in whatever personality disorder he has, and just wanted to hurt you. You may never know, and it doesn't really matter.


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## Rosemary's Granddaughter (Aug 25, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Like someone else pointed out, he may have told you because someone else (an OW, a friend, an OWH) threatened to tell you. Or he may just be getting worse in whatever personality disorder he has, and just wanted to hurt you. You may never know, and it doesn't really matter.


Sadistic--yes! Be careful.

Are you currently looking for a job?


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