# Catholics: Pope Benedict's retirement, faith, God, and marriage



## northernlights

Wow. Is anyone else out there rocked to their core? I'm working on my marriage for two reasons: my girls and my religion. Well sh!t, if Benedict can step down from the papacy, why do I have to stay married? 

I've been Catholic my whole life, and I'm having a really tough time with the resignation in general. My favorite Catholic websites are pretty mum on the topic, and I feel like there's no guidance coming from the church. 

Anyone else reeling?


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## 2ntnuf

It bothered me, even though I do not practice anymore. I thought it was a lifelong post. I wonder if he is having trouble thinking? At one time, when my mum was president of the Legion of Mary, I was drawn to information about "the third secret" of Fatima and other types of warnings from apparitions. Who knows if they are true or not? They were interesting.

I found one article that stated this pope would be the last. I don't know whether to believe it or not. Makes me wonder.


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## northernlights

I used to love the Fatima mysteries too. Back when I was little and wanted to be a nun. Sometimes I think that if H and I do get divorced, I could become a nun when the girls are grown. Would they even take me?


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## debster

northernlights said:


> Wow. Is anyone else out there rocked to their core? I'm working on my marriage for two reasons: my girls and my religion. Well sh!t, if Benedict can step down from the papacy, why do I have to stay married?
> 
> I've been Catholic my whole life, and I'm having a really tough time with the resignation in general. My favorite Catholic websites are pretty mum on the topic, and I feel like there's no guidance coming from the church.
> 
> Anyone else reeling?


I didn't give it much thought. Although unusual, I thought it was okay. I believe he must be taking guidance from the Holy Spirit, because this decision would not be taken lightly. 



2ntnuf said:


> It bothered me, even though I do not practice anymore. I thought it was a lifelong post. I wonder if he is having trouble thinking? At one time, when my mum was president of the Legion of Mary, I was drawn to information about "the third secret" of Fatima and other types of warnings from apparitions. Who knows if they are true or not? They were interesting.
> 
> I found one article that stated this pope would be the last. I don't know whether to believe it or not. Makes me wonder.


I don't know much about this will and research further for my own lack of awareness, but I my gut tells me not to be concerned.


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## 2ntnuf

northernlights said:


> I used to love the Fatima mysteries too. Back when I was little and wanted to be a nun. Sometimes I think that if H and I do get divorced, I could become a nun when the girls are grown. Would they even take me?


I know they will take men who want to be priests after being married. I don't know or remember under what conditions.


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## 2ntnuf

debster said:


> I didn't give it much thought. Although unusual, I thought it was okay. I believe he must be taking guidance from the Holy Spirit, because this decision would not be taken lightly.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know much about this will and research further for my own lack of awareness, but I my gut tells me not to be concerned.


It was at a time when I was searching things on Medjugore(spelling?) as well. I'm not certain this will be the last standing pope. He may only be the last true pope. I wish I could remember where I read this. It may have been in a magazine. There was a magazine. It was small in overall size; maybe six by eight inches. The circular I read on occasion was larger. Similar to the size of an unopened newspaper. I may Google it to try and find it. I would be interested in seeing anything you find.


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## Shoto1984

As a somewhat liberal Catholic, I don't see any issues. Knowing some of our history tells me that infallibly is a myth. We need a leader who is mentally capable. If he is in decline he did the right thing to step aside.


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## 2ntnuf

It's not so much of an issue for me, just unusual. Especially when there is no reason given. Plus, I was under the impression the College of Cardinals did the research and made recommendations to the Papacy. Am I misunderstanding??


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## northernlights

Shoto1984 said:


> As a somewhat liberal Catholic, I don't see any issues. Knowing some of our history tells me that infallibly is a myth. We need a leader who is mentally capable. If he is in decline he did the right thing to step aside.


I agree, if he's declining mentally. He's been so vague, though. It'd be one thing if he said, "I've been diagnosed with Alzheimers." But, he's not telling us anything. I'm just taking it really hard because I feel like, just when I need the certainty of the church the most, the POPE of all people appears to say, "yeah, I'm just making this up as I go."


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## 2ntnuf

I looked just a little and found this:

Prophecies about the Last 10 Popes by a 12th century monk

I take all of this stuff with a grain of salt. Who knows if this stuff is true? It is interesting though, when you can almost connect the dots.


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## gulfwarvet

Too much going on in the catholic church if any of the rumors are true the church is going to be hit by a gay ring scandal in the hiearchy.I honestly believe everything has been too much for the old guy.


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## debster

2ntnuf said:


> I looked just a little and found this:
> 
> Prophecies about the Last 10 Popes by a 12th century monk
> 
> I take all of this stuff with a grain of salt. Who knows if this stuff is true? It is interesting though, when you can almost connect the dots.


Very interesting. Of course there are so many different views, conspiracy theories it seems impossible to know the truth. I think we need to rely on our own relationship with God and leave it at that.


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## 2ntnuf

Something I found on infallibility:

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Infallibility


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## Sillyputty

The catholic church needs a schism much like the 16C reformation that would allow catholics to practice the basic tenets of the faith without having to answer to Rome. Dyed in the wool catholics will not like this but the Roman regime has had too many failings over the centuries to warrant further support of this institution, moral and financial. No offense to the OP but how on earth can you place so much hope/trust in the papacy to the point you no longer have hope for your marriage? I hope you have the same outrage about the numerous abuses perpetrated by the RC over the years, still being outed as we speak. I realize that these abuses occur in other institutions but the fact that they emanated from the "one true church" has to make you wonder.


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## norajane

Wasn't there a big news topic this weekend that the Italian press believes he is resigning because of some big scandal the Church is trying to avoid becoming public?

The Cardinals elect the Pope, so I never saw him as anything but the guy who had enough friends (or the fewest enemies) among the Cardinals to win the job.


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## 2ntnuf

Found something I thought would be of interest.


Pope Benedict says it sometimes felt like 'God was asleep' in final audience | News.com.au


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## EleGirl

Shoto1984 said:


> As a somewhat liberal Catholic, I don't see any issues. Knowing some of our history tells me that infallibly is a myth. We need a leader who is mentally capable. If he is in decline he did the right thing to step aside.


There is nothing in Catholic doctrine that says the Pope is infallible as a human or in all things. The only thing that is considered in fallible are certain statements/teachings made by the Pope. These statements must go through the College of Cardinals before they can be considered infallible. This has only happened about 25 times in history.


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## EleGirl

norajane said:


> Wasn't there a big news topic this weekend that the Italian press believes he is resigning because of some big scandal the Church is trying to avoid becoming public?
> 
> The Cardinals elect the Pope, so I never saw him as anything but the guy who had enough friends (or the fewest enemies) among the Cardinals to win the job.


Are you Catholic?


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## EleGirl

There have been between 5 to 9 previous Popes who have stepped down in the past.


If the Pope feels he's too ill to fill his duties then I applaud him for not staying until he dies. When this happens we often have someone else, or a group, running things in the back ground. 

I think that this Pope is a good man and he understands the need for as strong replacement as soon as possible.


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## tryingtobebetter

I confess my attention has moved quickly from the Pope Emeritus, as he now is, to the future. I pray that Cardinals make an inspired choice. The Church faces so many problems that it will be very difficult to find someone who can address all of them adequately while being a visibly saintly man.

I put my trust in God but he did let the Borgias take the Papacy so his ways are not ours....


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## norajane

EleGirl said:


> Are you Catholic?


I grew up part Eastern Orthodox, and part Catholic, sort of. I'm not anything now.


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## MEM2020

I usually go to church with my wife, a practicing catholic. 

She and I have talked about his resignation a bit. It is likely a combination of age and a difficult mix of acute and chronic challenges. The 'acute' issues mostly relate to sexual misconduct. And the fact that his butler of 20 years betrayed him by leaking documents (Pope Benedict's personal correspondence) to the Italian press. 

And the biggest chronic stressor is a global shortage of priests. In the US, the church is inching away from celibacy. 

True or not, the Italian press is claiming that there is a far reaching scandal inside the vatican. 



QUOTE=EleGirl;1497216]There is nothing in Catholic doctrine that says the Pope is infallible as a human or in all things. The only thing that is considered in fallible are certain statements/teachings made by the Pope. These statements must go through the College of Cardinals before they can be considered infallible. This has only happened about 25 times in history.


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## 2ntnuf

Malachy's final words:

In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Peter the Roman, who will feed his flock among many tribulations; after which the seven-hilled city (Rome, the seat of the Vatican) will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people.

It is striking that at least one pope had a similar mystical vision:

In 1909, while granting an audience, pope Pius X leaned back and closed his eyes. Suddenly he "awoke" and cried out: "What I see is terrifying. Will it be myself? Will it be my successor? What is certain is that the pope will quit Rome, and in leaving the Vatican, he will have to walk over the dead bodies of his priests."
Pius's prophecy was fulfilled neither in his own time nor in that of the next pontiff. According to Malachy's vision of the Church's "tribulation," it applies to the successor of Gloria Olivae-the next pope but one.


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## tryingtobebetter

I have just watched a recording of Pope Francis explaining why he took the name. I thought he came across extremely well. Are others similarly impressed?


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## Malcolm38

tryingtobebetter said:


> I have just watched a recording of Pope Francis explaining why he took the name. I thought he came across extremely well. Are others similarly impressed?


I really am fond of Pope Francis.


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## 2ntnuf

tryingtobebetter said:


> I have just watched a recording of Pope Francis explaining why he took the name. I thought he came across extremely well. Are others similarly impressed?


So far, his actions show him to be of a different type of pope than those I've seen in the past. Time will tell the tale.


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## MrsLadyWriter

Personally, I had heard someone say that Pope Benedict didn't stand a chance from day one. And I tend to agree. He came to the papacy after one of the most beloved and charismatic Popes in such a long time. Strike One. He was not blessed with an friendly, open face - even when he smiled it looked, well, like he was scowling. Strike Two. He had asked Pope JPII if he could resign from the college of cardinals and spend the rest of his life in prayer citing he was old and tired. John Paul II said nope, we still need you. Strike Three.

When Benedict resigned he said the papacy needed someone younger and in better health because of all of the world travel needed. Instead of feeling betrayed or stunned by his decision to step down, I admired him for the courage to admit he wasn't well enough to continue. I pray he finds the peace he's been seeking for so long.

And as for Pope Francis - I think he's going to be a great Pope. He seems to have a marvelous sense of humility and a great sense of humor. I think he will go far in uniting the Mother Church. My prayers are with him!

The Holy Spirit still knows what He's doing!:smthumbup:


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

From Infallibility - Catholic Encyclopedia - Catholic Online (The Catholic Encyclopedia online)

*the bolding is my own*



> The Pope
> 
> Explanation of papal infallibility
> 
> The Vatican Council has defined as "a divinely revealed dogma" that "*the Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra *— that is, when in the exercise of his office as pastor and teacher of all Christians he defines, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, a doctrine of faith or morals to be held by the whole Church — *is*, by reason of the Divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, *possessed of that infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer wished His Church to be endowed **in defining doctrines of faith and morals*; and consequently that such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are irreformable of their own nature (ex sese) and not by reason of the Church's consent"


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