# Has your libido declined?



## 20yrsofmarriage

My hubby always tells me I need to get checked out. I'm 40, in shape and many mistake me for being in my 30's.My hubby still sees me as a young hot womsn and doesn't see me as a peri menopausal woman. He wants it all the time and acts like a 19 yo boy. I'm glad that my hubby is into me and still finds me attractive, I just wish I could posess that same attitude as him. I could go months without it and be fine, and lately (longer than lately)it's more like a chore.

I believe that it has to do with other things, ie the way he talks to me( he has little patience and can get snippy with the smallest question) several times throughout the day. This in turn causes me to be annoyed by him a lot. Since women tend to view sex emotionally as well as physically I think that's a major cause. However he thinks it's a physical problem that I basically have a VERy low sex drive.


----------



## Bobby5000

I think this is pretty normal, and with some compromise on both sides, things work reasonably well. You have a right to ask your husband to speak to you nicely.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening 20yearsofmarriage
You are a very lucky woman to have a man who still desires you. There are many women posting here who are dealing with husbands who are not interested any more.

Does he try to please you in bed? If so, then you really should do all you can to be intimate which him often. Being rejected for sex by the person you love is really crushing (if it hasn't happened to you its difficult to understand just how awful this is) and can damage the entire relationship. 

If he isn't interested in pleasing you in bed, then that is a completely different issue.


----------



## Rowan

I understand that it can be crushing to a man when his wife doesn't try to please him in bed. However, it can be equally crushing to a woman when her husband doesn't try to please her out of it. 

OP, pick up a copy of the book _His Needs, Her Needs _by Willard Harley. See if your husband will read it with you. Yes, there may be something hormonal going on that is leading to a lower libido for you. But, honestly, a crappy relationship is a _huge_ libido killer. Do get checked out for hormonal issues. Also see what can be done to remedy marital issues. A really good relationship will probably make a really good sex life much more appealing to you.


----------



## murphy5

not a woman, but i highly suspect that you can not tell by yourself, other than to remember back when you were a teen and compare your actions then to now. I think it is a slow creeping change. 

I base this on the standard "but we have sex all the time" line, AND on comments women have made that started taking bio-identical hormones and "suddenly" noticed they wanted to have sex all the time.


----------



## Married but Happy

Libido has declined for both of us. If we waited for lusty feelings to occur, our frequency of sex would be a lot less than the daily average that it is. So the only problem is getting started. It's always fantastic once we do, and we're glad we did. We know how important sex is to us and to intimacy and bonding. So, rather than rely on lusty thoughts to get going, we had to develop the habit of remembering to initiate sex through the various actions and words that lead to it. The effort it took to make this a habit was and is more than worth the delightful results. It's something we do for each other, because we care.

It may take an attitude adjustment to change from disinterest or possibly even aversion to embracing sex as a good habit.

P.S. Hormones can help. Look into progesterone.


----------



## Deejo

Needs more meat on the bones.

You 'think' it may be because of how he treats you. 

The way you state it indicates uncertainty ... almost like you are looking for a source or cause.

Is your relationship and marriage satisfying or no?

Talk a little bit more about your marriage dynamic and you will likely get additional input.

And for the record, most of the ladies on TAM have insatiable libidos and their husbands tend to have very large penises. At least that's what seems to be 'trending'.

Your post reminds me of that of a female friend. According to her, she has been perimenopausal for the last 8 years. Have to confess that I don't know enough to determine if that is a valid statement.

Her last sexual activity of any kind, was with me. About 6 years ago. Now for some folks that may seem perfectly normal. For others, that is utterly unthinkable.

Do you have any kind of sexual thoughts? Do you masturbate?
Is it something you think about, or only something you think about because your husband points to it's lack?


----------



## PBear

How often is "all the time"? 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WandaJ

My libido is actually exploding (I am few years older than you), but he is kind of like your hubby, snapping, pouting), so that kills my eagerness for sex.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

20yrsofmarriage said:


> My hubby always tells me I need to get checked out. I'm 40, in shape and many mistake me for being in my 30's.My hubby still sees me as a young hot womsn and doesn't see me as a peri menopausal woman. He wants it all the time and acts like a 19 yo boy. I'm glad that my hubby is into me and still finds me attractive, I just wish I could posess that same attitude as him. I could go months without it and be fine, and lately (longer than lately)it's more like a chore.
> 
> I believe that it has to do with other things, ie the way he talks to me( he has little patience and can get snippy with the smallest question) several times throughout the day. This in turn causes me to be annoyed by him a lot. Since women tend to view sex emotionally as well as physically I think that's a major cause. However he thinks it's a physical problem that I basically have a VERy low sex drive.


I think your analysis is right. But what do you want to change?

I would suggest you see this as a 'chicken or egg' problem. Both of you are annoyed by each others behavior. 

Communicate about your feelings and needs, listen and refrase these to each other. Not more.

Then:

What about him cooling down and be more civilised, and you have sex with him every two day's he behaves OK in your opinion?

I know women can have a fullfilling sex life at least untill in their sixties, so you could choose to want that, and enjoy a better relation.

He could choose to be behaving different and getting more sex.

Why not start giving for a couple of weeks, then decide if there was a change?


----------



## Anon Pink

A woman's libido can be absurdly complicated, so much so than not even she can accurately know how to balance everything just right. In fact, it is all too common that she can't.


View attachment 29298



Hormones suck! 
Sometimes you have a spike in estrogen which kind of cancels out the effects of testosterone = low libido
Sometimes the opposite = high libido
Endorphins, norepinephrine, serotonin, cortisol, and even adrenalin mix ups can spike libido up or down.

Relationships are also complicated and sometimes you have a cart/horse kind of issue. Are these things bothering you BECAUSE your hormones are wacking out or are they organically bothersome? Only two ways to tell. 1. Keep hormones the same but change the behavior that is bothersome. 2. Change the hormones but keep the behavior the same. Right, that's so easy to do!

My advice is that while you're not having sex with your husband he's NOT likely to feel agreeable to changing his behavior. IMO, Men work much better at relationships when they are happy with the sex they're getting. YMMV.

So go to the doc and get yourself checked. This lets your husband know you take his concerns seriously. 

Do take steps to bring your libido back, such as masturbating frequently, taking good care of yourself, wear sexy things that make you feel sexy and think sexy thoughts that remind you of being aroused. You don't have to masturbate to orgasm, but you should masturbate to keep those neural pathways to sexual arousal open and well paved. 

When your husband snipes at you, remind him his attitude isn't helping you feel like jumping his bones, but also remind yourself that the lack of sex isn't helping his attitude.

And follow Rowan's advice about the book! That's solid stuff!


----------



## SimplyAmorous

> *AvonPink said*: Hormones suck!
> Sometimes you have a spike in estrogen which kind of cancels out the effects of testosterone = low libido
> *Sometimes the opposite = high libido*
> Endorphins, norepinephrine, serotonin, cortisol, and even adrenalin mix ups can spike libido up or down.


My libido went stark raving mad at age 42.. this perimenopausal thing had a whole different effect on me... I was seriously wondering if I had a sex addiction during that time, I could NOT keep my hands off my husband.....so I can't relate...

I was the one who was getting snippy and impatient if I even entertained he didn't want me...

He took this all in stride... and did everything he could to please me....even if he struggled to keep up...love that little blue pill.

I think how you are feeling would be very very very difficult on your husband...if he feels you could take it or leave it, it's just a chore now... this is very hard on someone who is passionate and revels in feeling wanted & desired, for mutual pleasure.. 

After 8 months of unquenchable desire... this calmed.. the surge slowed down..

5 yrs later....our libidos are still pretty good ..we're about the same now...it's not an ANTSY "I gotta have you now" type thing (which it was then for me!).....more like something we just want to DO...we like to work it up..



> *AvonPink said*: My advice is that while you're not having sex with your husband he's NOT likely to feel agreeable to changing his behavior. IMO, Men work much better at relationships when they are happy with the sex they're getting. YMMV.
> 
> So go to the doc and get yourself checked. This lets your husband know you take his concerns seriously.











Yes.. show you are doing all you can to please him... I can't tell you *how much* that meant to me during my High drive phase... I even sent my H to get his Test checked during that time.. his attitude during that... I couldn't have asked for more.... It makes a huge difference in how we FEEL about our spouses, wanting to be close to them, doing for them...


----------



## Hicks

I would venture to guess this is not about hormones or perimenopause.

More likely, here is what it is about.

1. You don't know what sex means to your man. A man who wants sex from a woman is not special. All your life men pursued you for sex. So that is not anything that differentiates men. Your husband on the other hand pursued hundreds of women for sex. Only a very few ever agreed to it. So a woman who has sex with a man loves that man. Sex to a man is love. It is the purpose of marriage. You probably feel he is just using you to get off in. But your husband's view of sex within marriage is it is the primary way he feels loved and connected to you.

2. Your husbands actions are turning you off. He annoys you in big ways and small ways. He acts like a baby when he does not get his sexual needs met.

So, your perspective: He is a horn dog constantly begging for sex and acts nasty when he doesn't get any. He doesn't care about you as a person. Libido Killer (where you are).

His perspective: Lack of sex causes him to feel unloved, unworthy. She doesn't care about me as a person. Anger (where he is).

So, since we don't know what comes first the chicken or the egg, we have to look at this as a cycle. No one starts it. No one stops it. It just goes on and on like this. UNTIL one person decides to stop it. The basic approach if you care about maintaining your marriage is for the one person who wants to affect change is to start by improving how they meet the other person's emotional needs to SEE if that causes the other person to want to start returning the favor.


----------



## WandaJ

He is not acting like a baby when he doesn't get sex, at least that's not what OP implies. She says this is character trait, he is this pouting, complaing, impatient throughout the day. And this is the majore TURN OFF.

so why you all tell her to suck it up and just give him more, that's not the issue. he needs to start behaving like an adult first. It is hard to have desire for someone snapping and barking and puting at your. You withdraw emotionally from this.


----------



## Hicks

Yeah, problem is he is not here asking for advice.
I would certainly tell him to act more attractively.
If it is a character trait, we don't know. But if it persists in an environment of having his emotional needs met, then we know yes it is a character trait.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

WandaJ said:


> He is not acting like a baby when he doesn't get sex, at least that's not what OP implies. She says this is character trait, he is this pouting, complaing, impatient throughout the day. And this is the majore TURN OFF.
> 
> so why you all tell her to suck it up and just give him more, that's not the issue. he needs to start behaving like an adult first. It is hard to have desire for someone snapping and barking and puting at your. You withdraw emotionally from this.


She said "I could go months without it and be fine".. I feel bad for the guy...what she did not say is HOW OFTEN they have sex... Maybe he has been deprived for months.. If so...no wonder he is acting like that -as this type of frustration can seep into all aspects of a man's life...


----------



## WandaJ

we all have our own perspective. My husband is the pouting too agressive type, and I can tell you not many things kill your libido more than dealing with someone like this. It is like having another child at home you have to worry about, and that;s not sexy. Chicken or egg. Is he like this because lack of sex, or she is not interested in sex because of his behavior?


----------



## michzz

SimplyAmorous said:


> She said "I could go months without it and be fine".. I feel bad for the guy...what she did not say is HOW OFTEN they have sex... Maybe he has been deprived for months.. If so...no wonder he is acting like that -as this type of frustration can seep into all aspects of a man's life...


I agree.

And I'd want to know if the OP is completely asexual for months at a time or does she just get herself off in private?

Never generalize, but at the early 40s already being comfortable not getting sexual pleasure seems out of norm.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

WandaJ said:


> we all have our own perspective. My husband is the pouting too agressive type, and I can tell you not many things kill your libido more than dealing with someone like this. It is like having another child at home you have to worry about, and that;s not sexy. *Chicken or egg. Is he like this because lack of sex, or she is not interested in sex because of his behavior?*


That is the question I am asking pretty much. I am guessing on both ends, they need to reign it in some and work with each other.. his working on his attitude with her coming more his direction in trying to satisfy him. ...they should both benefit by meeting each other half way.. at least.

Truth is....sometimes I would get " b****y when I needed it (so it's hard for me to judge others harshly here, as I sympathize with them)... if that makes me sound bad.. so be it.. another man might have gotten sick of me... but that's not what I was faced with .. he loved me through it...and wanted to be there for me- God bless my H !...(of course he enjoyed it too...I guess this makes a difference , he never saw sex as a chore...or a burden)...

It became a running Joke -when my attitude would flare ...he'd say..."I Know what's wrong with you...you need Laid"....and I'd be like.. "YEP.. give it to me !!" ....he had a way of bringing me back down or getting me to laugh at myself.. 

I am definitely thinking from a high drivers perspective...due to my personal experience with being in those shoes...


----------



## WandaJ

you are being *****y, because you weren't getting it. He is *****y in general, that's my undestanding.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

WandaJ said:


> you are being *****y, because you weren't getting it. He is *****y in general, that's my undestanding.


His "general" could be because he isn't getting it though.. Let me just say this.. My Husband has the patience of Job... he is a very good man, he is not the type to whine, complain or give me attitude .... (I am the hot head in our relationship admittedly).... I can not relate to women who have to put up with a grouchy man... 

Though I remember back in the day --when I wasn't Mrs High Drive (but average drive)... I had to have it at least once a week but he would have loved every day.. ..well I remember times when he was Short with the kids , or just not his usual self... it was never over the top.. but you could tell he wasn't as Happy... and I used to say to him.. "What the heck is your problem?" on occasion....but he'd never tell me the truth -that he wanted more sex.. so he stuffed that (he was too passive for his own good)... 

So men can give attitude if they want more and not even make it about sex.. but it's still ABOUT SEX.. she is not giving us enough to go on here to even understand what he is dealing with.. yes I am looking at his Side ... but that's the beauty of forums..all these different perspectives.. it's good to have variety and those who represent HER side as well...so she has some sympathy.. I , too, as a woman would need to feel my husband cared about me emotionally. .. of course... maybe he *IS* missing the boat here!


----------



## WandaJ

SimplyAmorous said:


> I can not relate to women who have to put up with a grouchy man...


I can relate very much to living wiht grouchy man, and not because of sex, just because that's his nature. Grouchy and snappy kills all the fun, mistreats the partner on everyday basis, betrays the promise of love and respect.

it is kind of offensive for me to hear that I just need to f..k him more, so maybe he can be happier man. Maybe he needs to start with himself?


----------



## Anon Pink

WandaJ said:


> I can relate very much to living wiht grouchy man, and not because of sex, just because that's his nature. Grouchy and snappy kills all the fun, mistreats the partner on everyday basis, betrays the promise of love and respect.
> 
> it is kind of offensive for me to hear that I just need to f..k him more, so maybe he can be happier man. Maybe he needs to start with himself?


You're absolutely right Wanda, who wants to have sex with a grouchy D bag! 

But as we say here in TAM land: If you're here to change your marriage you must first start with yourself. Since you're the one here, we nominate you to begin the change and one of the good changes that has a positive effect is getting yourself more in tuned for more sex.


----------



## SurpriseMyself

Just want to add that I had my hormones checked a while ago and they were all fine. I've always been LD. Just how I am. Now, there are other things in my marriage that make me not interested, but it hasn't affected my drive per se because I've never really had one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rowan

WandaJ said:


> It is kind of offensive for me to hear that I just need to f..k him more, so maybe he can be happier man. Maybe he needs to start with himself?


I, too, understand being a little triggered by that kind of advice. 

I was married to a guy who spent significant time behaving like an asshat. I actually tried fvcking him more. It _did_ make him a happier man. What it _did not_ do, was lead him to stop being an asshat. 

So, yeah, some people I'm sure are amenable to change when their needs are better met. Some folks....not so much.


----------



## WandaJ

Anon Pink said:


> You're absolutely right Wanda, who wants to have sex with a grouchy D bag!
> 
> But as we say here in TAM land: If you're here to change your marriage you must first start with yourself. Since you're the one here, we nominate you to begin the change and one of the good changes that has a positive effect is getting yourself more in tuned for more sex.


I'm afraid I am way beyond that When TAm posters told me that last time to start with me, and I tried, I was cold 'stupid idito". I'm sorry, I have no idea when I feel like having sex with him again. 

Really, people, not all the problems can be fixed by more sex.


----------



## Anon Pink

Wanda, everything can be fixed by more and better sex. And, NOTHING can be fixed by more and better sex.

We could go into the biochemistry of why sex is an important and relatively inexpensive way to feel good feelings but really it boils down to this:

Requests made with a smile and the magic word are more likely to be granted.

However, there comes a time when you have go Clint Eastwood on the SOB and change your request to a challenge.

"So, do you feel lucky today punk? Well do ya?"


----------



## MaritimeGuy

I can see the chicken and egg argument but is a person supposed to just grit their teeth and endure sex with an individual they resent the hell out of?

Surely the whole thing has to start with an adult conversation. "I'm sorry I haven't been as interested in sex lately but I'm feeling resentful about the way you treat me and it's killing my libido. I want to work on this because I know it's important to our marriage"....and go from there.


----------



## 20yrsofmarriage

I appreciate the comments. I realize men need to have sex to feel loved, and most times I do it for him so he won't constantly complain( still does) that I'm not giving it up,. Plus I do t want him trying to find it elsewhere, and then I have to end up blaming myself for not giving it to him more often.

We have sex about once a week, but he asks or hints for it about 5 times a week. However his job has changed so about the only time we can do it is twice a week anyway. When we do it, often times I'm in pain simply bc I can't get into it. Yes I still can get aroused and do so alone without even touching myself, that's how powerful the mind is. I just wish he would put two and two together. "Oh if I speak kindly to my wife and help out around the house more( he doesn't cook or clean or do anything house or yard related unless I ask), she will DESIRE yo have sex with me" I feel like it's all one way, me giving and him taking.

I will look for the book his needs her needs. He can be stubborn so he might roll his eyes as soon as I mention it.


----------



## 20yrsofmarriage

MaritimeGuy said:


> I can see the chicken and egg argument but is a person supposed to just grit their teeth and endure sex with an individual they resent the hell out of?
> 
> Surely the whole thing has to start with an adult conversation. "I'm sorry I haven't been as interested in sex lately but I'm feeling resentful about the way you treat me and it's killing my libido. I want to work on this because I know it's important to our marriage"....and go from there.


I've tried that many times and he always says that he doesn't talk to me like that,and it goes back to I don't give him enough sex or act into him as he is to me. He says there's no way I will want more sex by him doing simple tasks or being nicer bc it doesn't work like that. He doesn't understand arousal for him and arousal for me looks completely different.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

20yrsofmarriage said:


> He says there's no way I will want more sex by him doing simple tasks or being nicer bc it doesn't work like that.


He probably read that here. :scratchhead:

I think there are nuances that are missed in these discussions. Guys will hear their wife say she would like him to help out more around the house...they'll do a few dishes and expect she's suddenly soaking wet and dragging him into the bedroom. Or they'll hear I'd like you to caress my body before you dive in for the clit...so they'll rub her thigh three times like they're playing scratch and win then start pinching her clit. 

I think what women are really saying is I want you to want to do those things. So if they feel like he's only doing it for a reward...and his hearts really not in it...they resent that as much as him not doing it in the first place. 


...at least thats my take on it.


----------



## WandaJ

they do not have to want to do those things. Hell, we do not want to those things (I mean house chores). But these things have to be done by someone. If you do not do it, it means you are secretly hoping they will get done somehow, by someone - I wonder who would it be?

What that means for us that our spouse is perfectly fine pushing these chores on us. It is matter of simply fairness. Do you want wife, partner, or mother who will take care of everything? If mother is your choice, do not complain about sex. 

How would you like co-worker like that, just waiting, pretedning to be working, hoping you'll do the most? You would RESENT him / her.


----------



## Anon Pink

20yrsofmarriage said:


> I've tried that many times and he always says that he doesn't talk to me like that,and it goes back to I don't give him enough sex or act into him as he is to me. He says there's no way I will want more sex by him doing simple tasks or being nicer bc it doesn't work like that. He doesn't understand arousal for him and arousal for me looks completely different.


You describe my marriage, many years ago when it was essentially sexless. My husband did next to nothing with regard to home and kids, paid no attention to me and then when we got in bed I was supposed to be interested in sex? Whaaa?

It's a multi pronged problem which takes a multi pronged approach.

Have you been to marriagebuilders.com yet? If not go there and print out two copies of the Emotional Needs Questionaire. Here's the link for the questionnaire http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forms/enq.pdf

You each complete one the. Go over your answers together. You each need to be as specific and detailed with your answers as possible.

I'm sure your H did hear that he wasn't going to get laid just cause he loaded the dishes, and you can't nice your way into your wife's panties. I can't tell you how many men come here and SWEAR they help out ALL the time! Bend over backwards doing stuff around the house... And I'm thinking yeah right! 

But the fact is, if your man is helping around the house you HAVE to encourage that. And how do men like to be encouraged? By getting laid with the woman they love, the bride they took down the alter, and the one and only person in the whole world with whom they swore they would EVER have sex with! So yes, sex is important, enthusiasm is important. You're not "giving it up" and giving it To HIM because you love him. You might be angry at him, but you still love him!

Arousal, he doesn't understand what you need to get aroused? Why not? Haven't you told him? I'm sure you never said a clean home makes you gel your panties? So what should he be doing to get your thinking about sex with him? Should he be flirting with you through out the day? Playfully touching you during dinner? Should he whisper hot sexy things in your ear as you two put dinner on the table? Should he send you sexy text messages during the day? TELL HIM what you want him to do.


----------



## Lionelhutz

I do think this sums up most of the discussion in this area



Anon Pink said:


> Hormones suck!


Age will eventually reduces or eliminates the sexual desire for all us. The more desire ebbs for more complicated and emotional sex will appear.

I for one think much of the advice in this area is useless and sometimes harmful.

I would treat with extreme caution all the advice on this subject that says "Look at the underlying causes within your relationship" Unless there is something obvious, you must remember that no marriage is perfect and picking at the scabs may not resolve anything.

Your desire has declined. Even if your marriage was otherwise perfect, this in itself will create bad feelings in both of you. projectionand blame are classic and instinctive ways to deal with bad feelings. The question then becomes how to deal with it. 

I don't see any other way but to deal with it directly. Be clear with your husband that you feel this way. Accept that sexual mismatch is a problem for both of you. Ultimately he may need to deal with less sex. And you will have to accept that you are either going to have sex at times when you would rather read the paper and or actively take steps to keep your spark alive. 

Not to say you would do this but we all need to remember that "actively taking steps" does not mean thinking of things your partner should do.


----------



## WandaJ

" You love him (hopefully)"

I have a feeling that part may not be that easy.

All the good advise works great if your marriage keeps the basic attraction, love and respect are still there, waiting to be undug again. 

Not always the case. Hope it is for the OP.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

WandaJ said:


> I can relate very much to living wiht grouchy man, and not because of sex, just because that's his nature. Grouchy and snappy kills all the fun, mistreats the partner on everyday basis, betrays the promise of love and respect.
> 
> *it is kind of offensive for me to hear that I just need to f..k him more, so maybe he can be happier man. Maybe he needs to start with himself?*


I wouldn't use the work F*** as I find it very demeaning and ugly..it cheapens what sex is supposed to represent and deeply mean for a loving couple.. Please don't think I would condone this sort of behavior... as I wouldn't. ...you have me all wrong...and I have no desire to offend those who are going through this sort of pain in their marriages.. 

You said you are mistreated every day, he has betrayed Love & respect ....I hope you are looking into leaving him WandaJ.


----------



## 20yrsofmarriage

I will say that he does pay attention to me, and he's not a man of few words. He is very affectionate and I should be happy about that bc many men aren't. I know I need to focus more on his positive traits than negative. I know he loves me like no man ever has, I would just like a little more respect.


----------



## Holland

I am late 40's and NO my libido has not declined. IMHO it has less to do with age and hormones and more to do with life circumstances. I can say for certain that a disrespectful partner like you are describing would kill my libido. Women's libidos can very much be affected by what is happening in their life at that time, don't let any man tell you it is your fault and you need to get your hormones checked.


----------



## WandaJ

SimplyAmorous said:


> I wouldn't use the work F*** as I find it very demeaning and ugly..it cheapens what sex is supposed to represent and deeply mean for a loving couple.. Please don't think I would condone this sort of behavior... as I wouldn't. ...you have me all wrong...and I have no desire to offend those who are going through this sort of pain in their marriages..
> 
> You said you are mistreated every day, he has betrayed Love & respect ....I hope you are looking into leaving him WandaJ.


no, he is not mistreating me every day. it is similar to what 20yearsofmarriage said - he can be very passionate and great, and most days go all right, but you never know what will piss him off and he starts snapping at you for no reason.

It would be easy to leave if things were simply bad. It is harder when there is mix like this, but with time it is getting harder and harder to get over the bad parts.


----------



## WandaJ

20yrsofmarriage said:


> I will say that he does pay attention to me, and he's not a man of few words. He is very affectionate and I should be happy about that bc many men aren't. I know I need to focus more on his positive traits than negative. I know he loves me like no man ever has, I would just like a little more respect.


This is very similar to my situation. that's the tragedy of it - you know he loves you, you know us used to love him, but now you just not sure anymore. On one side things are not that bad, on the other you just want to run away from it.


----------



## 20yrsofmarriage

WandaJ said:


> This is very similar to my situation. that's the tragedy of it - you know he loves you, you know us used to love him, but now you just not sure anymore. On one side things are not that bad, on the other you just want to run away from it.


It's nice when someone truly understands you bc they've been there or are going thru it! Thank you for getting it. There are days he's away for work and I really enjoy it. Things are peaceful, calm, and my kids aren't walking on egg shells. You're exactly right, it's bad but not a good enough reason to divorce over, especially since I feel that divorce should only happen when there's physical abuse, drug abuse or abandonment. I just want my good days to start outweighing the bad days instead of vice versa!!


----------



## WandaJ

Yeah, it's good enough most of the times, so we accept it as not that bad.

The only way to have more better days is to finally, for the first time, draw the line. The aggrevation in my marriage was growing and growing, getting out of control last year. Loud arguments, name calling, 'f...k you, etc , and finally he went overboard. 
Few days later I sent him e-mail that I do not want to be called any names ever again, and I am planning to take off for the weekend all by myself to think things trhough. I had never done anything like this before. I did go for that weekend. 

Things have changed. He needed that wake-up call, no more name callings, much calmer everyday interactions. sometimes there were strings of days that were almost perfect, pleasant, happy kids, although not much intimacy, but it was improvement. And the moment I would start believing against myself, "hey, maybe there is a chance" he would do something again - not as bad, no, but still. 

Until few weeks ago, another outburst. He apologized within fifteen minutes, and tries to give me space, but I am not sure if I can come back this time. I do enjoy that space I have now - way more than getting emotionally closer. I am trying, but not sure about outcome anymore.

And things do not make me so angry and bitter anymore, most of the time. I am now just sad, looking back at all the good things we had over years, and how we weren't able to take good care of it, spit on it, walked all over it. 

you need to get him to wake up too, he won't do it by himself. Maybe it is not too late for you. Good luck.


----------



## 20yrsofmarriage

WandaJ said:


> Yeah, it's good enough most of the times, so we accept it as not that bad.
> 
> The only way to have more better days is to finally, for the first time, draw the line. The aggrevation in my marriage was growing and growing, getting out of control last year. Loud arguments, name calling, 'f...k you, etc , and finally he went overboard.
> Few days later I sent him e-mail that I do not want to be called any names ever again, and I am planning to take off for the weekend all by myself to think things trhough. I had never done anything like this before. I did go for that weekend.
> 
> Things have changed. He needed that wake-up call, no more name callings, much calmer everyday interactions. sometimes there were strings of days that were almost perfect, pleasant, happy kids, although not much intimacy, but it was improvement. And the moment I would start believing against myself, "hey, maybe there is a chance" he would do something again - not as bad, no, but still.
> 
> Until few weeks ago, another outburst. He apologized within fifteen minutes, and tries to give me space, but I am not sure if I can come back this time. I do enjoy that space I have now - way more than getting emotionally closer. I am trying, but not sure about outcome anymore.
> 
> And things do not make me so angry and bitter anymore, most of the time. I am now just sad, looking back at all the good things we had over years, and how we weren't able to take good care of it, spit on it, walked all over it.
> 
> you need to get him to wake up too, he won't do it by himself. Maybe it is not too late for you. Good luck.


Thankfully he doesn't name call, he just barks at me. Example:I got up this morning before he did. I turned the bathroom light on bc I needed to find something. He barked at me, TURN THE LIGHT OFF. It was on for less than 60 seconds. I told him, "wait a minute and don't talk to me like that, I'm tired of you talking to me like that" he shut up and I turned the light off.

From now on, no longer will I bite my tongue to keep the peace, I'm calling him out on it each and every time. This may make things worse in the beginning but I think over time he will get the hint and stop doing it.. At least that's what I hope!


----------



## Anon Pink

20yrsofmarriage said:


> Thankfully he doesn't name call, he just barks at me. Example:I got up this morning before he did. I turned the bathroom light on bc I needed to find something. He barked at me, TURN THE LIGHT OFF. It was on for less than 60 seconds. I told him, "*wait a minute and don't talk to me like that, I'm tired of you talking to me like that"* he shut up and I turned the light off.
> 
> From now on, no longer will I bite my tongue to keep the peace, I'm calling him out on it each and every time. This may make things worse in the beginning but I think over time he will get the hint and stop doing it.. At least that's what I hope!


Perfect! Keep going exactly like that. It may get worse but I doubt it. If you've *not* been in the habit of calling him out when he speaks disrespectfully to you he hasn't ever realized how bad his habit is. I predict he will soon start to apologize for being disrespectful BEFORE you call him out. So do remember to count to 5, not ten, before you call him out but keep doing it!


----------



## OhGeesh

Answer is Yep has declined!! People age and desire different things at different times. None of us are getting out of here alive, so enjoy life whatever a happy life means to you. Lots of sex, little sex, medium sex, it doesn't matter.

In 100 years no one on earth will KNOW you ever lived aside from a picture or a grave. LIVE LIVE LIVE


----------



## LonelyinLove

I was very LD for a while until I had cardiac surgery a few years ago. After recovery, OMG. It was so bad the hubs actually told me to get off of him and leave him alone.

He was always grouchy, selfish and snapped a lot at me a lot. Funny how he could control that for everyone else. Now all of a sudden I look smokin hot, other men notice and treat me decent, and his little bee-bee has suddenly slipped back in it's notch and he fears losing me.

Too little, too late. I won't be cheating, it's against my religion, but he killed the passion. That statement about loving a man, but not being in love....I totally get it.


----------



## happy as a clam

20yrsofmarriage said:


> From now on, no longer will I bite my tongue to keep the peace, *I'm calling him out on it each and every time.* This may make things worse in the beginning but I think over time he will get the hint and stop doing it.. At least that's what I hope!


This is perfect. And you can do it in a way that doesn't escalate into a fight. You simply tell him exactly what you did... "I will not tolerate being spoken to in that manner." And then remove yourself from the situation. Rinse, repeat. Over and over, as many times as necessary for him to finally get it.

I suggest keeping a log or a tally of how many times this occurs in a day. Just jot down his nasty comment. It's hard to argue with a written log. Then hopefully he will see, in black and white, that he really is being a jerk.

Btw, I'm a 49-year-old woman and I don't think my libido has declined at all. But it surely would if someone was treating me that way. That's why my ex is now my ex.


----------



## Cynthia

20yrsofmarriage said:


> I've tried that many times and he always says that he doesn't talk to me like that,and it goes back to I don't give him enough sex or act into him as he is to me. He says there's no way I will want more sex by him doing simple tasks or being nicer bc it doesn't work like that. He doesn't understand arousal for him and arousal for me looks completely different.


Talking to someone about their bad behavior at a later time is usually unproductive. It is important to bring it up when he does it. When he is rude to you, respond with something like, "Don't speak to me like that. It's rude."
or
"Yeah, Baby, that's what I'm talking about! I am not going to stand here and be spoken to like that." Then walk away.
People do not make a good connection later. It has to be in the moment to have the most impact.


----------



## Cynthia

20yrsofmarriage said:


> Thankfully he doesn't name call, he just barks at me. Example:I got up this morning before he did. I turned the bathroom light on bc I needed to find something. He barked at me, TURN THE LIGHT OFF. It was on for less than 60 seconds. I told him, "wait a minute and don't talk to me like that, I'm tired of you talking to me like that" he shut up and I turned the light off.
> 
> From now on, no longer will I bite my tongue to keep the peace, I'm calling him out on it each and every time. This may make things worse in the beginning but I think over time he will get the hint and stop doing it.. At least that's what I hope!


Yes. Tell him in the moment. This is the most effective method.


----------



## DTO

WandaJ said:


> so why you all tell her to suck it up and just give him more, that's not the issue. he needs to start behaving like an adult first. It is hard to have desire for someone snapping and barking and puting at your. You withdraw emotionally from this.


I would tell her to give him more. Actually, I would tell her to check her attitude and then give him more.

The huge problem I see from the OP is that she is very dismissive of his needs. She says his sex drive is "boy"-like, he wants sex "all the time", and says him seeing her as a sexual being is problematic. She also says she has felt this way for a long time.

So, yeah, he is behaving badly. But consider that her words and actions are equally hurtful if not more so. She is basically communicating he is an immature child for wanting regular sex. With that lack of respect, she'll never feel like having sex and his chippiness over being neglected for long periods of time is self-fulfilling prophesy.

He could take the ordinary advice we give and not pout, do more his own thing, and detach himself from her, but my hunch is that would not help her libido. She would enjoy the lack of pressure, maybe be annoyed/angry that he is less attentive, but that's it.


----------



## I like cake

I am in exactly the same position - exactly! I have tried forcing myself to make the effort with sex, but it feels like a chore and so isn't great for me, and my husband also then feels hurt that it's just a chore for me. To be honest, I feel like my husband's interest in me doesn't go much beyond sex, and it is very hard to muster up desire when you feel unappreciated. I mean, sometimes he seems to find it impossible to have a conversation with me throughout the day, but he suddenly turns on the charm when we go to bed. I'm not a naive teenager - I do notice how fake that is! And I do feel that respect and friendship are the basic building blocks of a relationship - they HAVE to come before sex, because without them, I can't get aroused. I know most men see it differently - my husband tries to convince me that it can be the other way round (regular sex leads to a good relationship). I know it can help to keep a relationship strong, but I'm not having sex with someone who has ignored me all day, in the hope that he then won't ignore me the next day.

Yes, I know that my relationship has problems. I hope that 20yrsofmarriage is in a better situation than me, and can regain a balance before it gets like this. But men have to realise that for a woman (OK, the majority of women) love leads to sex, not the other way round.


----------



## DTO

I like cake said:


> But men have to realise that for a woman (OK, the majority of women) love leads to sex, not the other way round.


Believe it or not, most guys do understand this. The problem is our patience has limits when it comes to getting our needs met in turn. Sometimes, the love does not lead to sex and relationship problems ensue.

You noted guys do not feel the same way as ladies about sex and we need to accept your sensibilities even if they don't resonate with us. You expect us to look beyond our perspective and meet your needs consistently and genuinely - fair enough.

In this regard, women and men are similar. If you are talking about just casual dating, guys don't mind investing the effort and seeing where the relationship goes. But, in a serious relationship where the guy is investing effort often, eventually he is going to expect some reciprocation. We understand that life happens. Nonetheless, _*we* now expect *you* look beyond *your* perspective and meet *our* needs consistently and genuinely_.

The problem often is that women (or, more accurately, the LD partner) does not get (or resents) how this is supposed to work. The relationship necessarily starts from a paradigm of "friendship and respect always, but sex only when we're both lusty". But, relationships are supposed to progress beyond this, yet sometimes stall (or at least it seems that way to HDers).


----------



## almetcalf

20yrsofmarriage said:


> I believe that it has to do with other things, ie the way he talks to me( he has little patience and can get snippy with the smallest question) several times throughout the day. This in turn causes me to be annoyed by him a lot. Since women tend to view sex emotionally as well as physically I think that's a major cause. However he thinks it's a physical problem that I basically have a VERy low sex drive.


He is probably snippy because you are not sexual!! Why is it that the low sex drive person ALWAYS wants to find a reason to put the blame on their partner. You do have low sex drive. DUH!!


----------



## WandaJ

almetcalf said:


> He is probably snippy because you are not sexual!! Why is it that the low sex drive person ALWAYS wants to find a reason to put the blame on their partner. You do have low sex drive. DUH!!


not true. snippy, snarky, sarcastic, whatever you want to call it are love killers. They are opposite of love and kindness.


----------



## michzz

One of the worst outcomes of this disconnect of libidos is "bargaining" for sex.

It might work in the short term, but after awhile both of you will resent it.

He'll resent being sent to starbucks so he can get a HJ as a reward. She will be annoyed that she made such a stupid agreement and start to do a lousy HJ.

and so on.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

I like cake said:


> I am in exactly the same position - exactly! I have tried forcing myself to make the effort with sex, but it feels like a chore and so isn't great for me, and my husband also then feels hurt that it's just a chore for me.* To be honest, I feel like my husband's interest in me doesn't go much beyond sex, and it is very hard to muster up desire when you feel unappreciated. I mean, sometimes he seems to find it impossible to have a conversation with me throughout the day, but he suddenly turns on the charm when we go to bed.** I'm not a naive teenager - I do notice how fake that is! And I do feel that respect and friendship are the basic building blocks of a relationship - they HAVE to come before sex, because without them, I can't get aroused. *I know most men see it differently - my husband tries to convince me that it can be the other way round (regular sex leads to a good relationship). I know it can help to keep a relationship strong, *but I'm not having sex with someone who has ignored me all day, in the hope that he then won't ignore me the next day.*
> 
> Yes, I know that my relationship has problems. I hope that 20yrsofmarriage is in a better situation than me, and can regain a balance before it gets like this. *But men have to realise that for a woman (OK, the majority of women) love leads to sex, not the other way round*.


I have a few things to add to this.. I know I am the type of woman who NEEDS to feel greatly loved in order to be fully sexual.. and free.. I want the afterglow lying his his arms.. or it would hurt me....with his giving that, lavishing me.. I want to give HIM THE WORLD...

At the beginning of this thread, I spoke of my INSANE DRIVE PHASE... (I've had a few different phases in my marriage).. I feel I have always been NORMAL DRIVE - for the most part though.. 

Trying to explain......

*1. *Due to too much of my energies being focused elsewhere, sex wasn't paramount on my mind unless he touched me, & continued to work it up, then he HAD ME ! (more our younger years, I could be a slow cooker, so they say unless I seen something erotic, or was reading a hot romance - then WHAM... I had to have it)...

*2.* that INSANE Drive phase.. I bet I was worse than some young horny men..... SO antsy.. couldn't get enough, all I wanted to do or think about.. near cried for my husband -what he must have felt like in the past..(He was always so good to me. I was just not "getting it").... I asked him with the most serious of faces during that..."How in the hell didn't he lift the roof off the house with me".. so I get men and their frustration .. with wanting their wives.. I felt that for a time.. just imagining being rejected..it wasn't good. 

It was So bad for me, I remember one day my H accusing me of just LUSTING after him, more than Love.. OH he wasn't really upset, he was enjoying being lusted after.. ..(I guess this is how men can come off at times too)...try to forgive them if they are faithful & true I say. 

*3. *And now .. a few yrs later.. I can attest that my sex drive has slowed down (I kinda miss that heated euphoria!)... I can go days now & be perfectly fine, it's OK.. but yet.. because of how he treats me .......his care, his affection.... I still crave that sexual connection, we both WANT to stir it up & keep that flowing.. it's very important to us....

We have almost as much sex as the insane drive phase even.... I'm just less antsy about it..... so it does work like this, so I feel.. for some of us..

Meaning: feeling deeply loved allows for our *being receptive *to his reaching for us, we welcome it.... so we can ride those waves together..



> *DTO said*: Believe it or not, most guys do understand this. T*he problem is our patience has limits when it comes to getting our needs met in turn. Sometimes, the love does not lead to sex and relationship problems ensue.*


 I so agree with this too.. I can attest, just imaging my husband rejecting me during that time when everything seemed so intensified.. wanting his love and his desire.. had he given me a Ho hum response, or pushed me aside, as good as our marriage always was ... it could have destroyed us. .. I would have been eaten with resentment.. 

It takes 2 to care for each other....


----------



## Jellybeans

My libido has been up the past couple of years, which goes right along with what's supposed to happen to a woman once she hits 30. I find I have a higher drive than my partner at times and it is frustrating.


----------



## WandaJ

Jellybeans said:


> My libido has been up the past couple of years, which goes right along with what's supposed to happen to a woman once she hits 30. I find I have a higher drive than my partner at times and it is frustrating.


wait until you hit forty it will be even bigger, Thirty was goo too


----------



## southern wife

20yrsofmarriage said:


> My hubby always tells me I need to get checked out. I'm 40, in shape and many mistake me for being in my 30's.My hubby still sees me as a young hot womsn and doesn't see me as a peri menopausal woman. He wants it all the time and acts like a 19 yo boy. I'm glad that my hubby is into me and still finds me attractive, I just wish I could posess that same attitude as him. I could go months without it and be fine, and lately (longer than lately)it's more like a chore.
> 
> I believe that it has to do with other things, ie the way he talks to me( he has little patience and can get snippy with the smallest question) several times throughout the day. This in turn causes me to be annoyed by him a lot. Since women tend to view sex emotionally as well as physically I think that's a major cause. However he thinks it's a physical problem that I basically have a VERy low sex drive.



I was in your shoes for the past 13 years. My STBXH was very similar to yours in nature....little patience, snippy, etc. My desire for him was ZERO. Now that we're separated, my libido is through the roof. I just turned 44 by the way. 

Sadly, I deprived myself all those years.


----------



## southern wife

Jellybeans said:


> My libido has been up the past couple of years, which goes right along with what's supposed to happen to a woman once she hits 30. I find I have a higher drive than my partner at times and it is frustrating.


Just curious, but how old is he?



Oh and HI JB!!! Missed you!


----------



## Jellybeans

WandaJ said:


> wait until you hit forty it will be even bigger, Thirty was goo too


Yeee haw! That is excting. Plus my grandmother has always told me that the 40s are the best decade/the one she enjoyed the most.



southern wife said:


> Just curious, but how old is he?
> 
> Oh and HI JB!!! Missed you!


The low-driver - 40. 

Hiiiii SW! Hugs to you and a clink of the wine glasses!


----------



## southern wife

Jellybeans said:


> Yeee haw! That is excting. Plus my grandmother has always told me that the 40s are the best decade/the one she enjoyed the most.
> 
> 
> 
> The low-driver - 40.
> 
> Hiiiii SW! Hugs to you and a clink of the wine glasses!


Cheers to you, girl! :toast:


----------



## MarriedDude

WandaJ said:


> I'm afraid I am way beyond that When TAm posters told me that last time to start with me, and I tried, I was cold 'stupid idito". I'm sorry, I have no idea when I feel like having sex with him again.
> 
> Really, people, not all the problems can be fixed by more sex.





I would suggest that as every life starts with sex...that everything can be fixed with more of the same. 

Its fun too


----------



## Observer

I'm reading the womens posts and find it ammusing since I went through this as a male. I made plenty of mistakes, took my ex for granted, called her names, and did not help nearly enough around the house. About 39 I had this huge wake up call and realized what an uter **** I had been all those years. I made huge changes, read every relationship book I could, came on to these forums, went to counseling. When we divorced last year she even said, "you are the perfect husband now". She was bitter as hell, for her it was to late.

I'm sure many of you women can relate. As a man, I was dumbfounded as I finally became the man/husband she wanted and it was to late. I tried for 2 and half years...no sex at all...but alas, there was nothing I could do. So I ask you OP, even if he changes, can you forgive him? I assume you will say yes but I think the real answer is No. Some people are just not meant to be together I think and some things cannot be undone. 

Life is to short to carry around this bitterness and hatred. I don't regret the 2 years I spent trying to save my marriage, it helped me grow as a man and help me with my relationship now. I cannot change the past, only learn from it. If you ladies cannot forgive your man then move on now and find happiness. Some things cannot be fixed with women, you all hold onto stuff and never let go. And be honest with yourself. If you want a new life with new possabilities, just admit it and do it, dont worry about being the bad person. You are just prolonging the inevitable imho.


----------



## The Romance Guy

Greetings ladies,

I hope you don't mind a man's input on this thread?

May I reveal some secrets about men to you?

As much as men don't like to admit it, even to themselves, we need certain things as much as women need certain things. E.g., if you want to keep a man interested in you, there are some basic qualities a man looks for in a woman to keep him interested.

Now, I'm going to be talking generally here, and not about any one particular post in this thread.

Men don't like drama. We like the women in our life to be easy going. Not a push over by no means, but not someone whose bugging him about something every few minutes. Being cool (easy going) will make him fall in love with you faster than a woman who looks like Barbie

Another thing, feed his ego. And this works for both sexes by the way. Let's face it. we like being around people that compliment us over people who don't, right?

Take the initiative sometimes. As much as men like the chase, we also love it when you chase us a little bit too. (That goes right along with feeding the ego too.)

And this should be a no-brainer for both sexes: always smell nice. Nothing pleases a man more (almost) than their loved one smelling nice.

And here's a nice trick men love for their woman to do & that's to whisper nice things in his ear. This makes a man feel special.

Be open too about your feelings without blaming him for any bad feeling you may have. This is one of the hardest things to do, but essential. 

Let him know you need him--this goes back to the primal need to hunt & provide. When he knows only he can satisfy your needs, he'll want to be around you more in a loving way.

Now when you do these things to a man, watch him make an about face in his attitude towards you: more loving, more appreciative, more understanding, more attentive, and more romantic.

Now there's books written about creating strong relationships, so this is just a brief insight into what makes a relationship a happy one.

Just try though these few things out & see if your man doesn't come around to being more loving in your eyes.

I'm John the Romance Guy, working for better relationships all around


----------



## SurpriseMyself

John the romance guy says:

Be easy going

Stoke his ego

Take the initiative with sex

Smell good

Don't blame him for anything

Let him know you need him.

Really! Whatever. The above is why so many women I know wish we were lesbian.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

